Talk:Ground and neutral

message: The following:
:::In almost all low voltage (under 1KV) wiring with more than one phase core the neutral fits both of these definitions. and we will assume this is the case for the remainder of this article.
is just wrong.   I'd like to remove it.  The article needlessly confuses the functions of grounds and neutrals. --Wtshymanski 20:38, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Erroneous text? 

message: I don't know how wikipedia manages one-to-many associations.  In some languages, a word can have multiple translations in another.  There are currently 3 articles for the same thing, Ground and neutral, Ground (electricity), and earthing system.  Most languages that have an article on this topic have one.  The problem is what to link to from those languages? Doseiai2 (talk) 10:07, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As an interim measure I have put links to all 3 articles on the disambig page for Ground. Biscuittin (talk) 11:36, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  grounds and neutrals serve two different purposes. Ground is a standard reference. Neutrals are current carrying conductors that act as a return path  in a circut.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.47.15.105 (talk) 15:55, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

text: I have put up merge banners. --Kvng (talk) 17:31, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:   I see that this topic was broached three years ago, and apparently with no resolution.  Should it be continued here and now, or should it be discussed in a new section? - J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 19:47, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I pointed the merge banners at this section. If that's not acceptable, create a new section and adjust the banners. --Kvng (talk) 02:19, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

text: Suggest instead refactoring anything relative only to "ground" out of "ground and neutral" into this article and re-naming 'ground and neutral' just 'neutral'. This would hide our collective confusion on these topics from the unwary reader. --Wtshymanski (talk) 01:30, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: There is also Earthing system which is more about ground than neutral. I'm OK to have three articles on closely-related topics so long as scope is well defined and overlap is minimized. There's a lot of overlap at present. --Kvng (talk) 02:19, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

text: User:Wtshymanski, you've taken down the merge banners without doing an of your proposed "refactoring". What's up with that? --Kvng (talk) 14:32, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Once again I forgot to clear an edit with the editorial board. You've got any suggestions for what should be moved? --Wtshymanski (talk) 16:34, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Your edits (removing merge banners) do not match your stated intent to refactor and they do not improve the article. I have not had time to explore what needs to be done here. I do not work quickly. I'm always hopeful that someone will beat me to it. I would prefer that the merge banners stay up until 1/ someone does the merge, 2/ it is agreed here that a merge is unnecessary or 3/ other changes to the article(s) make a merge unnecessary. Two of those three can be done WP:BOLDly. --Kvng (talk) 01:24, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

text: There's no time limit on sorting this out. I believe the merge banners are useful to readers editors alike and should remain up until editors feel material is effectively organized. We don't remove a  banner just because it has been sitting there for too long. --Kvng (talk) 22:03, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Propose Merger

message: This may be done in some countries but I'm pretty sure it is not done in the UK.  See also my comment at Talk:Electrical bonding. Biscuittin (talk) 20:38, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems I was wrong. See Talk:Electrical bonding. Biscuittin (talk) 18:37, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Even though this is done in the UK, NZ and Australia, it doesn't seem prevalent in the world, so the wording "Neutral is usually connected to ground (earth) at the main electrical panel, street drop, or meter, and also at the final step-down transformer of the supply" might not be accurate? Introiboad (talk) 12:21, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Combining neutral with earth 

message: "Connecting the neutral to the equipment case provides some protection against faults/shorts, but may produce a dangerous voltage on the case if the neutral connection is broken."
Should this not read, "but may produce a dangerous voltage on the housing if the neutral is untied from earth"?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.0.234.108 (talk) 18:30, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Neutral as earthing?

message: Shared neutral singnificantly overlaps the topic of thie article and could be usefully merged to improve presentation of the material. --Wtshymanski (talk) 14:58, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. --Wtshymanski (talk) 21:53, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Suggest merge

message: The first line of the article states "Ground or earth in a mains (AC power) electrical wiring system is a conductor that provides a low impedance path to the earth to prevent hazardous voltages from appearing on equipment"
This is not correct.  I think this article needs a rewrite.  The idea that ground removes hazardous voltage is a very dangerous and incorrect idea.
Grounding electrodes are to give neutral points a stable reference NOT to carry current.  A 25 ohm grounded connection to earth can only carry 4.8 amps at 120V.  This is not even enough to open a circuit breaker!
Here is an idea to how incorrect this article is.  http://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarchive/GB-HTML/HTML/Grounding-Part-1-of-12~20041005.php
I will try to give it more time when I am not at work.  I only created an account because I have never seen anything on Wikipedia this incorrect and I thought I should make it known. Electros (talk) 05:32, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think it's wrong.  In the UK we normally call it "earth".  I agree that varying usage is confusing, and the wording has been clarified slightly.  Your 25 ohm grounded connection to earth would not pass the basic UK earth test.  Dbfirs 08:02, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: @Electros I find the entire article repetitive and confusing.  I feel like few people really understand the theory or practise of earthing. I would applaud any effort to improve! 1.146.241.159 (talk) 13:33, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Wow I think this is wrong

message: In the section entitled "Split Phase", the author refers to the wire colors - white, black and red.  It might be useful to indicate that those are the colors in the U.S. and Canada. European (including UK) colors are different.  I am not suggesting that the reference to the colors be removed - just indicate they apply to the U.S. and Canada.  BTW, someone stated that the article is written in "British English" - but given the reference to the wire colors lead me believe he is Canadian.  The use of the Canadian spelling doesn't bother me - perhaps because my grandmother was Canadian.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:304:CFA5:2130:8100:200F:7905:855E (talk) 01:16, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Split phase is not common in the UK where is is more usual to supply two of three phases to premises requiring extra power, and to keep the two phases completely separate consumer-side with conventional colours (brown for both phases, blue neutral and yellow-green stripe earth).  Brown, black and grey have been compulsory three-phase colours for the past nine years, replacing the previous red, yellow and blue that confused the Germans (no insult intended).  In view of this, perhaps we need to clarify that this paragraph relates to North America.  Dbfirs 06:44, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  References to wire colors 

message: The article currently reads: "Extra connections between ground and circuit neutral may result in circulating current in the ground path, stray current introduced in the earth or in a structure, and stray voltage"
As I see it, extra connections prevent stray voltages.  Can we have a reference if the statement is somehow true?  Dbfirs 19:18, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extra connections 

message: Wikipedia already has an article on Ground (electricity) though no corresponding article on Neutral (electricity).  Instead, there is a link for Neutral wire which redirects here (back in 2008 there was an actual article).  Is there a reason we do not have a standalone article on Neutral (electricity)?  Am I the only one who thinks "Neutral and ground" is a terrible search term?  Is there a technical reason we cannot move most or all of this article there?  No one has gone ahead and done it yet, so I am assuming there must be. Or else maybe there is just too much resistance to change.  "Neutral and ground" is a terrible search term.  Surely we can do better than this!  A loose necktie (talk) 01:43, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Content fork? 

message: I don't know a ton about electrical systems.  I read this article carefully, and I feel it's not super clear why it is important to have both neutral and ground.
This article says ground is to provide a path from any metal parts of an electrical device that could become energized in order to prevent shocks, while neutral is a return of current from normal use.  It also explicitly describes the risk of connecting ground and neutral anywhere but the main service panel: if so, during normal operations, the current could return along both paths (neutral and ground).
I think this is useful information (though I wish it could be even more clearly differentiated), but I don't feel qualified to edit this page.  Is someone willing to take a shot? dfrankow (talk) 17:25, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: This article has been the effort of scores of Wikipedia's top experts for more than a decade, so of course it's been revised to the point of uselessness.  I tried to put a bit in the lead that explains the point before we go off into the weeds, but doubtless the Panel will convene and quickly correct my ravings.  Good luck. I suggest buying any electrician's handbook for a more lucid and authoritative explanation. --Wtshymanski (talk) 21:43, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why both neutral and ground?