Talk:Matryoshka doll

message: Matryoshka-selling websites propagate a history about a Japanese Fukuruma toy as an origin of matryoshka. This word does'n go in any other context (with an exception of a Japanese name). So it looks like a Russian legend. Does anyone know for sure that there exist such kind of Japanese toys? I know there are sets different-sized Japanese dolls, but nested ones didn't come to my attention. Mikkalai 07:40, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Time to hit the library, almost certainly been researched by somebody, but maybe too obscure to be documented online. Could be a typo for some other name, or even a one-off toy that someone saw once in a Vladivostok shop... :-) Stan 16:42, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  OK. The closest match I've got is Fukurokuju. Mikkalai 02:26, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: It is indeed so. Mikkalai 03:24, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I see that  has a purported photo, but unclear if it's original or replica. Stan 03:38, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

text: And check out the nested eggs at the end of  ... Stan 03:46, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

text: Still don't have the direct connection, but Fukurokuju is getting warm - he is one of the Seven Gods of Fortune or Shichi-fuku-jin, who are apparently often represented by carved objects. Stan 03:55, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, I've already updated the article, and indeed nested shichifukujin are seen on web. Mikkalai 06:20, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  in fact, even in your hakone reference. Mikkalai 06:21, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

text: The word "Fukuruma" does exist in Japanese, but its meaning has no relation to the Russian doll, for it means "wheelcart to transport books". It would seem that the word "Fukuruma" as related to the Russian doll is a conflation of the Japanese words "Fukurokuju" and "Daruma". Both deities have been represented as wooden dolls and continue to be. Whether the words were contracted deliberately, or were simply mixed up in the memory of whoever brought the Japanese sample to Russia, is hard to determine.WvdWalle 16:34, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Origin

message: Who ever calls matryoshkas baboushkas and dedoushkas? Not in Russian, anyway. But I have not heard it in English either. Any sources? Cema 20:42, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Removed. No reason to propagate misconception, even if someone uses the word. mikka (t) 16:41, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Never ever heard that and I have no idea where it came from, I'd rather remove it from the page. --Pashator 19:40, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I put that in the article. Who doesn't call them that way? See , , , . In Serbian the doll is known as бабушка exclusively. Nikola 09:56, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Nobody call them that way! Your links to google are incorrect, they are reffering to Wikipedia or some other websites in English, no websites in Russian reffering to "babushka" (бабушка) can be found. If it's known in Serbia as "babushka" then it should be stated in the article otherwise it should be removed. --Pashator 19:40, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Ha-ha-ha "babushka doll" lol, it's the first time I hear about that, livin in Moscow. Russians never tell "babushka doll", only "matryoshka" - "матрёшка" on (or in, sorry) russian language. And funny image with russian politics. Putin not working in KGB no longer 20 years, and KGB... this is from USSR. Sorry for my lang. Only biggest three persons looks like similarity, further comically. Hmm, probably Brezhnev, then Mao Zedong? Stalin))) Lenin)) Nikolay II)))) (russian 213.5.78.80 (talk) 03:14, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Mao Zedong or Chingiz Khan? And who is after Nikolay II in new file Russian_Leaders_Matriochka.jpg - Isaak Newton? And after Peter I - Rasputin, Jihgurda?) (same russian 94.45.164.191 (talk) 22:21, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

text: The word "babushka" isn't any less correct than the word "matryoshka".  What would be the logic for saying that "babushka" is an incorrect term?  Babushka is an existing Russian word that refers to a female person, so it's not "wrong" to call the doll a babushka doll.  The fact is that the doll is not called a babushka doll *in Russia*, but in many other places in the world the doll is called that.  To say in the article that "babushka" is an incorrect term, is misleading.  It is not incorrect -- it is simply not the term used in Russia.  I think it should be said that while "matryoshka" is the most common term, the term "babushka" is also used (primarily outside of Russia). -- leuce (talk) 16:46, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  The logic? Since "babushka" is a correct term in Serbian, but not in Russian, for what reason it is translated as Russian word "grandmother", but not as a corresponding Serbian word? The reference to Russian word "babushka" (=grandmother) *is* misleading. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.153.22.4 (talk) 21:54, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Baboushkas and dedoushkas?

message: Can someone add an IPA pronunciation to lead? I was wondering how to pronounce the word "Matryoshka" and I'm sure other people may wonder as well. Thanks. --Jtalledo (talk) 23:28, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  IPA pronunciation 

message: I have a question...the Cyrillic for "matryoshka" shows up incorrectly on my computer as "mamryoshka" (i've viewed it in both unicode and cyrillic formats) although when i went to edit the page i noticed that it was input correctly...does anyone know why this can happen?
specifically, it was input correctly on the "edit" screen but shows up as (sorry, i can't input all cyrillic letters on my computer so this will look a little funny) as "mamρëshka" instead of "maΤρëshka" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.87.78.93 (talk) 20:10, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Cyrillic cursive т looks like Latin cursive m. Do you see матрёшка properly? How about матрёшка? Nikola 10:36, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Cyrillic showing up incorrectly

message: I don't know which joker in the long and complicated edit history is responsible, but it's really poor form to delete the link to a website used as reference. If you  don't like the site, find a better one, don't just delete. Stan 18:51, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deleted reference 

message: Is it worth mentioning (for the Popular Culture section) the similarity of the boss character Blizzeta (from The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess) with the Matryoshka doll? --Twicemost (talk) 00:18, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mention 

message: Or is it a state secret? Johnbod (talk) 03:35, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  So how do they make them then? 

message: I think the widely believed Japanese origin of matrioshkii should be included here.  There is no question that the Japanese create nesting wooden dolls, and have done so for centuries.  The matrioshka doll first appeared very recently in Russian history.  While the doll clearly has contemporary cultural significance in Russia, its origins are decidedly non-Russian. --Popothebright (talk) 03:54, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Japanese Origin 

message: I don't see how the Japanese traditional dolls have much to do with this article. None of the links show a nesting type doll. I think it should be removed.Dylpickleh8 (talk) 02:06, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  See Also 

message: I checked OED Online for the etymology and have restored it to the lead section with reference.  The full OED etym. reads:
:< Russian matrëška, lit. ‘little matron’ < personal name Matrëna (formerly Matrona, ultimately < classical Latin mātrōna matron n.) + -ka, diminutive suffix.
--Thnidu (talk) 02:30, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etymology 

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thread_title: File:Russian Leaders Matriochka.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: I'm sorry but this is bull.  Modern machines can easy mass produce this type of simple toy.  The source of the comment is Youtube.  Please remove this section.
98.16.115.200 (talk) 06:11, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree and I am removing this. Find Russian source then add it again.--Тежава (talk) 23:08, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: As factories shut down there is a fear that there will be no one left to learn the skills, so the knowledge could be lost

message: This was a TV series on Disney Junior (not sure if it's still running or not) whose characters were very clearly based on matroyshka dolls. I feel like this should be at least referenced, even though it is an American production.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.134.142.51 (talk) 02:57, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  HigglyTown Heroes 

message: Would it be useful to have a section on matryoshka dolls in popular culture?  I ended up here in connection with the film Rise of the Guardians, in which a nesting doll is an important metaphor in the film for the main character (Jack Frost) learning to understand and accept himself.  I personally can't think of other pop culture examples off the top of my head, but it strikes me that they must exist.  If so, shall we add a section?  --zandperl (talk) 03:06, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pop culture? 

message: Why doesn’t this article live at Russian nesting doll? —Wiki Wikardo 16:01, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page title 

message: I see there quite a bit of confusion in the internets. "Fukuruma" is not from  Seven Lucky Gods (Shichi Fukujin). A candidate is Fukurokuju. Needs to dig to very first sources. No fukuruma in older books. Newer ones just as well may be contaminated by wikipedia. - üser:Altenmann >t 02:50, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: here some doubts are described, citing a research. And  BTW, the very first Matryoshka was neither nested nor void. - üser:Altenmann >t 03:00, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

text: And the dates in our article are wrong as well. And some facts wrong. This is what happens when a wikipedia article is written indiscriminately from internets, blogs and other bullshit sources. Unfortunately I have no time to fix it now. - üser:Altenmann >t 03:03, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origins 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: this is only assertion without facts. this assertion were made from the "Russian Geographical Society", an NGO founded by german baltic founders. no historical facts at all --92.196.121.101 (talk) 20:19, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: The content is adequately sourced. Feel free to take to to the appropriate noticeboard, if you feel the source should be listed as unreliable. Scr★pIronIV 21:34, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  no credible receipts about japanese doll inspiring 

message: I remember seeing a set of dolls like these in the 1980s that were made of plastic, not wooden.  According to the first sentence of the article "Matryoshka dolls (Russian: матрёшка, IPA: [mɐˈtrʲɵʂkə] (About this soundlisten)), also known as Babushka dolls, stacking dolls, nesting dolls, Russian tea dolls, or Russian dolls, are a set of wooden dolls of decreasing size placed one inside another", plastic dolls that otherwise meet the definition would not be Matryoshka dolls simply because they are not "wooden".  I suppose this could be correct, but I don't think it is.  I think any dolls in this style should be included, regardless of the material used.47.139.47.169 (talk) 01:04, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is the definition "a set of wooden dolls", to the exclusion of similar plastic dolls, really correct? 

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