Talk:Bachir Gemayel

message: I moved this page from BASHIR GEMAYEL. I am aware that in many English language publications his first name is spelt BASHIR, but every official document that I have been able to find uses the French spelling, BACHIR. Moreover, even the English language website of the Bachir Gemayel Foundation, run by his widow, uses the French spelling. I don't think we should anglicize the spelling, any more than we anglicize the spelling of French names. Davidcannon 22:09, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Article moved from

message: I would like to refute the following sentence in the article:
Although Gemayel did not cooperate with the Israelis publicly, his long history of tactical collaboration with Israel, whether real or suspected, counted against him in the eyes of many Lebanese Muslims.
Collaboration with Israel is very generally admitted even by the LF. I personally know LF who were trained in Israel and my cousin who was an LF (he disapproved a lot of LF policies but serving was mandatory for young Christians at one time) was evacuated by Israeli ships from the chouf in 1983 (an episode that left bitter memories toward Israel as the Israeli brutally withdrew in a couple of day and left the LF lines defenceless ).
If you want written evidence about Israeli/LF collaboration, you can always read the Kahan Report on Sabra and Chatila (it’s negative biased toward LF but this is not the point). You can also read Sharon’s autobiography (you’ll find it in any University Library). You'll get a pretty good picture of LF mentality if you go to this forum CLICK HERE. I am not validating its content, I am only providing it as evidence.
Now something that is disputed is if that collaboration was ideological or pragmatic. LF opponents (Baath, PSNS) claim that they were Israeli agents while LF claim they were using the Israelis to promote their agenda. I would say each party was trying to use the other (more evidence below). It means that LF-Israelis alliance was pragmatic since Bachir tried to kept it secret at the beginning (contrarily to the guardians of cedar who were open about it and ideologically advocated an alliance with Israel).
Fact is that Hobeika tried to dismiss that alliance after 1985 which shows that the ties were not ideological in nature and that the LF would forget about Israel if they believe it was their interest to do so. He was dismissed because he tried to sign an agreement with Syria, not because he weakened that alliance. At the end of the 80’s, the alliance with Irak was more important than the alliance with Israel as most weapons were provided by Saddam, a Baathist who was anti-Syrian in practice but who wanted to built a greater Syria (in theory at least) (which shows that the LF were pragmatic). My opinion is that Israel is truly sympathetic to LF and vice-versa because they see each other as victim of muslim/palestinians terrorism (if this is true is another issue). But each party has a different agenda and none is ready to put the other’s guy objective above his own.
To be short about LF-Israeli relations: tactical collaboration is a fact. Strategic collaboration is an issue.
--equitor 15:16, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gemayel and Israel 

message: The attempt is acknowledged by Josheph Abu-Khalil and Karim Bakradouni.
Please check both their accounts on the incident in this documentry (Jump to 26:48)
I even chose not to include Karim Bakradouni's implies that Bachir expected a massacre. WisamFarouk (talk) 01:52, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know much on this subject, but it may make more sense to identify who exactly says that Gemayel sent Geagea to kidnap Frangieh, something like "Joseph Abu-Khalil and Karim Bakradouni, two Phalangist leaders, said that Bachir sent a  Phalangist squad led by Samir Geagea to kidnap Tony Frangieh, the commander of Marada Brigade." (I don't know that they were Phalangist leaders, but you can put some credentials in there for why their statements are important) If this is something that isn't widely reported in the news, sometimes it helps the neutrality to identify which groups or individuals state these things. ← George [talk] 02:06, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It is a widely reported incident. Your suggested wording sounds well toned and referenced but implies that the "claims" are exclusive to both figures while in fact they are widely reported. Anyway, if a dispute arises that needs resolution, your wording would be a fine with me. WisamFarouk (talk) 02:31, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Attempt to kidnap Tony Frangieh 

message: While I can't speak for the other sections of this article, those concerned with Bachir's policies appear to have been lifted whole sale from a single source here. These might do with some trimming and citing from other sources. WikiuserNI (talk) 21:15, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV tagging 

message: The term "sheikh" is used throughout the article to denote its subject. However, the term is "a honorific term in the Arabic language" that means "scholar" and is commonly used to designate a "revered wise man". It is inappropriate, from a neutrality aspect to use such terms. They should be deleted.-The Gnome (talk) 12:26, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Use of term "sheikh"

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thread_title: File:President Bachir Gemayel.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion 

message: I removed the term "democratically elected" from the introduction as it dosen't represent a NPOV seeing the circumstances the elction took part in.--Maudslayer (talk) 12:40, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Democratically 

message: If there is no objection to this, I will remove section Political views, there are no cited sources since Sep 2017. Same for Time as President-elect (no souces) and Institutions (unreliable sources). Maudslay II (talk) 15:48, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Remove 

message: Bachir Gemayel: The elected president of Lebanon by the parliament. 178.135.11.188 (talk) 20:09, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bachir Gemayel: The elected president of Lebanon by the parliament. 

message: The article refers to the "SSNP" but does not identify what organisation that is.  Please insert "Syrian Social Nationalist Party" before "SSNP" and put "SSNP" in parentheses.
Thank you. Betathetapi454 (talk) 20:27, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: – Jonesey95 (talk) 21:16, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 January 2023 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: It says he's racist against arabs(?), when the sourced article only mentions Syrians, although i wouldn't doubt his apparent views on palestinians Yefa36 (talk) 22:13, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Issue in Legacy 

message: Could someone add this category to the article? 
:Category:1980s assassinated politicians  SSR07 (talk) 23:54, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  1980s Political Assasination 

message: Claims such as "christian areas of beirut were encircled by palestinian camps" and that citizen were abducted need to be substanciated. They sound like political propaganda from the period. A simple look at the map of Beirut shows these camps do not encircle Christian areas in fact its the other way around they were surrounded by and at the mercy of christian milicias. 91.232.101.250 (talk) 07:08, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unsupported Claims 

message: Could any audio samples of Gemayel speaking be inserted? 2600:1005:B0BB:56AA:528C:868F:445A:C51D (talk) 02:44, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Audio samples?