Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Albums/Archive 10

message: I notice there's quite a few album stubs lacking by-genre and/or by-year categories, whether or not they have other categories (besides the stub cat, obviously).  Would this project find it useful to have a list of these uploaded somewhere?  Alternatively, I could use the same data to populate "year of release missing" and "genre missing" categories (subcats of , perhaps), though that would require some coding, bot approval, and numerous additional edits.  There's also the issue of the use of very broad genre categories like "rock", but one step at a time, perhaps...  Alai 03:25, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Most album articles will not have by-genre categories.  The project's intention is to have albums-by-artist categories be subcat's of by-genre categories instead of having the album article itself be a page of that category. -Acjelen 18:16, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Most artists aren't going to have their own categories, realistically, so I'm not at all sure the above is true -- or at any rate, it shouldn't be true, in the long run; it may be true by omission at present.  In any case, I could produce the "genre" list on the basis of album articles having neither an "artist" category, nor a (if the artist cats are themselves consistently categorised, that is).  My real thrust is:  is anyone working on album categorisation, or interested in doing so, and if they are, in what form would the above information be of use?  Alai 21:25, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, all artists are supposed to have their own category. This is the course of action for even artists with only one release. To me it seems entirely sensible to stick with that system and putting by-genre cats in the by-artist cat as per Acjelen and current practice. W guice 08:57, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll believe it when I see it, to be frank, and certainly to describe it as "current practice" is not in line with facts on the ground.  However, this is all by the by:  the point is, is anyone the least bit interested in addressing the numerous stubby articles lacking either?  Alai 01:57, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Would anyone find it useful to have a list of albums that are missing any of the three recommended categories? I'm sure someone would find that useful. But can it be done automatically somehow? Adding by artist and by year categories is almost as easy as adding a stub tag. I'd rather people just added the cats than added a categorization tag. -Freekee 05:14, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But the difference is that a worklist of articles missing these categories can be produced automatically, whereas adding the (real) categories themselves cannot.  (Other than in particular cases like articles having the data in an infobox, but lacking the categories, which itself is trickier than what I had in mind.)  Which what I'm offering to do, if someone feels they can make use of it.  Alai 00:07, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I totally missed this thread when I posted my message "Bot needed to tag Uncat albums" (see below).  If you are talking about tagging the articles for the uncat album cat, then, yes, I'd find it useful.--Fisherjs 10:33, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's related, but I was thinking in terms of articles missing some categories, rather than all.  Something like , or the equivalent in list form.  Alai 10:51, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Un(der)categorised albums 

message: I just set up an infobox for a new article, and the Chronology wouldn't show up. It was an artist with only one record, so I left the last and next fields blank, but the chron didn't show. I put an ellipsis in one of the fields and it was fine. Does anyone know why that is, and can it be fixed, or do we always have to put something in the fields? -Freekee 23:26, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: To show the information, either the Next or Previous release must be present I think. You could bypass that by adding "n/a" to the previous chronology link, at least until he/she releases a new record. -- ReyBrujo 23:54, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I put in an & nbsp. *shrug* Thanks. -Freekee 04:53, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is an intentional behaviour of the template. I don't see a point of displaying the chronology in case of an artist with only one record. Jogers (talk) 09:16, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah. That's different. -Freekee 16:07, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Template trouble

message: What does everybody think about including the chronology box in the infobox, if an artist only has one album? What if they only have one album so far? Should the chronology always be shown? Only shown if the artist has more than one album? Only shown if the artist has only one album and could possibly release another (meaning still living)? -Freekee 16:11, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I always put it, just so it's clear.  doesn't hurt anything and doesn't look awkward. --badlydrawnjeff talk 16:17, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

text: If there is only one album released by an artist the chronology serves no useful purpose. I find repeating the information which is already available in the infobox superfluous. Jogers (talk) 16:24, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you mean repeating the name and date of the album? I think that showing that there is no previous or following album is useful. That something that may or may not be mentioned int he text of the article. -Freekee 16:57, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

text: It's not really our job to anticipate the possibility of follow-up releases by anyone. Takes the burden of proof off our shoulders, which is always good. -Unint 16:42, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, trying to look too far ahead means you get articles with titles like Tori Amos' 2007 studio album. I try to not encourage anything like that. -Unint 16:44, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I agree with Freekee above that it is good to indicate in the infobox that there is no previous and following album.  The capability is there, it allows album articles to have a standard appearance, and every musician or band will have a first album (Little Earthquakes) and a last album (Anodyne (album)), even if it's the same one. -Acjelen 22:02, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Having no chronology at all can indicate that there is no previous or following album as well. I think that saying that an album is the only one by a particular artist in the body of an article is far more straightforward. Jogers (talk) 08:45, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The purpose of the infobox is to show all the main facts at a glance. Showing that an artist has no other albums by having a nearly blank chronology is very straightforward. But what's the drawback to showing it like that? Too many column inches used? You mentioned superfluousness. The only information in the infobox that is never given elsewhere in the article is the album cover . Just about everthing else is usually given in the text - especially, title, artist, producer. Even genre, length, recorded and label are sometimes given. I don't think we should avoid mentioning items in the text, just because they've been shown in the infobox. -Freekee 05:23, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And the purpose of the chronology is to provide navigation between articles about albums by the same artist. Chronology with only "this album" doesn't serve this purpose. Saying that an album is the only one by a particular artist in the lead section of the article is perfectly enough in my opinion. Am I really the only one who thinks this way? Jogers (talk) 14:34, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, I think you're making sense. Space (album) has no chronology for just that reason. --kingboyk 16:01, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I think it makes sense. I just think the other issues make sense too, and accumulate to a greater importance. -Freekee 06:45, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Information: there wasn't any modification proposed. The only direction was to leave the space blank if there was no previous record, or if the current record was the final one. And to place an ellipsis if there was as of yet no later album. -Freekee 01:03, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

text: In answer to the question about the point of including a succession box, I think it all boils down to this: Is the chronology box intended to be an informational aid, or only navigational? This sort of question has been coming up a lot for me lately. -Freekee 01:21, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Though there's not much of a consensus here, I'm going to call it. Like I said a couple of days ago, it's a question of the chronology being for information or navigation. Since including it when there's only one album doesn't hurt anything, and provides a certain amount of information, I think it should be included. If you prefer, you may view this as maintaining the status quo. I added a sentence to Wikipedia:WikiProject Albums#chronology, by way of explanation. -Freekee 04:52, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chronology for artist with only one record 

message: Some bands, particularly indie/punk, release 7" singles without any plan for it to get on the radio. For example, "Cough/Cool" by The Misfits. Would the appropriate infobox for this be the single or album one? Because the single infobox to me seems to be about singles that are released to radio and such, vs a single that is released just as a way to put out a couple of songs. My opinion is that the album infobox is the way to go, but what would it get listed as? An EP would seem closest. Joltman 00:27, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Recorded music pre-dates the overwhelming control radio has on popular music, and Wikipedia needs to be able to reflect this.  Perhaps the single infobox needs to be altered to be able to handle all kinds of singles, not just those intended for radio play. -Acjelen 01:38, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure how Infobox Single is radio-play specific. It has fields for release formats, and record charts are generally sales-based. –Unint 01:53, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Using the single or album infobox for a non-radio single 

message: Hi. Someone over at Wikipedia_talk:External_links#Albums has brought attention to this projects current aim to add large numbers of external links to articles in order to attempt a comprehensive linking to professional reviews.
I'd like to remind you all of WP:NOT's comments on this. "Wikipedia is not a mirror or a repository of links", "Wikipedia is not a directory". It has always been the interoperation of WP:NOT in the WP:External Links guideline that external links not used as citations are to be kept to a minimum. Specifically "An article about an album, movie, book, or another creative work may have one or two links to professional reviews of the work."
I'd suggest you rectify this conflict with the policy and guideline on the issue. --Barberio 10:42, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Keeping external links to a minimum. 

message: This is going in a different direction than I expected. Should I just delete song usage examples on sight unless they seem worthy of proper ("prose format") discussion? My goal is to eliminate a few more Trivia sections, and on pages with many song usage Trivia entries it becomes awkward to replant.
One reason I figured we should preserve these, even (perhaps especially) in list form, is for people searching for "what was that tune in such-and-such movie?" Perhaps an encyclopedia is not suitable for that usage. — edgarde 19:36, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's up to you. Personally, as much as I hate trivia, I seldom delete any of it. But back to the root issue, it's a matter of notability. Was the use of the song notable? Was it a high-profile usage and/or in a high-profile movie? And where would be the best place to mention this? The movie article, the song article, the album article or the artist article? I think that list is ordered by descending importance. If the song isn't notable enough to warrant its own article, should it be mentioned at all that the song was used in a particlar movie? -Freekee 05:43, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should ''song usage'' listings just be deleted? 

message: As requested above.   Forgetting what the image is, should there even be a "no cover" image?  I vote no, as leaving any other field blank doesn't populate it with "Not available" text, I see no reason for the image to be different.  Note most other infoboxes don't have default images when one is missing. *Sparkhead 16:17, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we should include the image - it might prompt people to upload and add it to the page.  tiZom(2¢) 16:25, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I agree we should include an image, both as per the user above and so that the infobox doesn't look like a deflated beach ball. W guice 17:42, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If an image is to be included (which as stated, I disagree with), it should say something to the effect of "please add one if you can find it". Worded a bit more elegantly than that, but more than just "No image available". *Sparkhead 18:25, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I too agree that we should include the image, for many of the reasons already discussed. -Erik Harris 20:11, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

text: *Link to a page regarding image size, etc.—Nicer1 (talk • contribs) 09:47, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox Album: Should there be a "no cover" image? 

message: One of the things that bothers me most when using Wikipedia for music is that relatively few of the entries on individual albums, CDs, singles, etc. contain catalog numbers for the records or CDs -- or alternately, they are either UK-centric or Americocentric (ignoring differences between releases in the two major markets). And they are sometimes incorrect, reflecting currently available versions rather than the originals. I know that it could get crazy because of different numbers and release dates in different countries (US, UK, Canada, Japan, etc.) and different configurations (LP, CD, etc), not to mention reissues and remasterings. But if this is going to be a comprehensive encyclopedia, I feel that this information is essential. (Giving credit where credit is due: The Beatles' discography does a nice job at this.) Cheemo 00:07, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not to imply that the discussion is closed, but it has been discussed previously. See Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Albums/Archive_4#Inclusion_of_catalog_numbers -Freekee 05:44, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

text: And while catalog numbers are a separate issue, feel free to improve articles on recordings that are too UK- or US-centric.  It is also important that articles touch on both the original form and any later changes, but if one is lacking—add it. -Acjelen 15:31, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Catalog numbers?

message: Two questions here:
1. Under any condition is it appropriate to include album covers in the chronology section?
and
2. When listing multiple producers, should each producer be separated by  or with commas?
--NPswimdude500 04:53, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My opinion is that it is not necessary to separate names with a line break, in the infobox. I would advise against album covers in the chronlogy for two reasons. First, there is no reason to have two examples of the same cover in an article. Second, under WP:FAIR there is no reason to have an illustration of an album cover in an article about a different album. -Freekee 05:34, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps Love Spirals Downwards is a relevant example? Cheers, Folajimi (leave a note) 14:52, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It looks good. But I meant what I said, that it wasn't necessary to separate them. :-) Though it appears swimdude took my statement as a rule. I might add that if the list is fairly long, giving them line breaks might be excessive. -Freekee 20:54, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

text: For multiple producers (or writers for songs, etc) I do either depending on what comes out 'neater'.  If I can fit two on a line easily, I separate with a comma. If not, I use a line break. I see FreeKee's point re. line breaks when there are many producers but following my method you could use a combo of both commas and line breaks to keep it neat (i.e. not split names) w/o going overboard. Admittedly I tend to work on 70s and early 80s albums where a maximum of three producers (often only one) is common. From that time on multiple producers for different tracks has become far more common. BTW, also agree with FreeKee re. the chronology covers. Cheers, Ian Rose 23:28, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't necessarily take your statement as a rule, but the example infobox is in that format as are a great deal of existing album infoboxes. In some instances, when there are 10 or more producers (as often is the case with hip hop albums) it looks pretty poor when the producers list is that many lines long. Apparently the producers section is still a gray area. As per the chronology and album covers query: After reviewing WP:FU it seems as if there is no justification for the use of album covers in the chronology section. Additionally, WP:MUSTARD states that album covers should not be used in discographies, for the same Fair Use reasons.--NPswimdude500 01:06, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I guess I'd say to list the people in whatever way looks best and is easy to read. Personally, I'd consider saying "see below" if the list of producers was too long, but I haven't had to do that, so that might not really be that good either. -Freekee 01:46, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox (chronology and producer) questions 

message: Appears to be a difference of opinion as to what to do if a review doesn't include a simple, unambiguous star or number rating for an album. I've seen the words 'Unrated' or 'Not rated', I've seen one-word interpretations of the gist of the review (e.g. 'Favourable'), I've seen short/sharp quotes (e.g. "balances on the precipice of..." no, sorry... "stands at the summit of western pop music" - yes, just been going over Revolver), and I've seen nothing but a link to the review. Be nice to gain consensus on what should be done here. My opinion is that the last-mentioned, i.e. don't put anything but the link, is by far the best. Star or number ratings are convenient but their absence shouldn't require that something else has to go in its place. 'Unrated' or 'Not rated' sounds a bit weak and could even be interpreted as saying 'not worth rating'. 'Favourable' or some other word is the editor's interpretation of the review and is always open to question. Quotes are necessarily going to be selective and look a bit clumsy. However IMO both 'Not rated' and the quotes are better than the 'Favourable'/'Unfavourable' concept. That said, imagine my surpise when I went through WP:ALBUM and found that 'Favourable'/'Unfavourable' appears to be encouraged.  Is this old policy which hasn't been swept away in the last clean-out or does the project really believe that such one-word interpretations of a professional review make sense? If I'm right the first time, let's get rid of that bit from the project page straight away and if I'm wrong and it really is policy, I recommend a change there for the reasons above. In any case, like to see some discussion. End of rant... Cheers, Ian Rose 09:07, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point. Quotations are too selective. "Favorable" could be considered original research. "Unrated" could be wrongly interpreted. I also think that nothing is by far the best. Also, while on the subject of reviews, I'd like to point out that it was brought up that WP:External links states that only one or two reviews are to be linked. -Freekee 15:53, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well I suppose the Idea would be to have a "critical reception" on the page for each album then instead of a "Professional Reviews" part of the infobox. This will probably make a lot of articles seem more biased or unbiased since like it or not most people who create album pages are biased towards the group and will either add tons of negative reviews or add tons of possitive ones. I really just add any reviews I can find that seem notable (from known websites, newspapers, etc.). I think removing the stars seciont might not be the best thing to do though, but putting in favourable or non-favourable sort of is too large. I remember someone suggesting before to make a template for "+/-" that never really put through for these kind of reviews. Bah! This is turning long. I'm cutting it off here. Andrzejbanas 22:00, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, on thinking about it again, most links arent' really external links for common sense, but are Citations really. Andrzejbanas 23:59, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

text: A "Critical reception" section in articles would be great. Then links would be citing references, rather than stating someone rated a record so here's a link. Aside from that, prose about reviews is good to have. But nobody's recommending getting rid of the numberical, star or letter grades from the infobox reviews - only summaries for reviews that don't have them. You're irght, though about the bias. For that reason, I would prefer to add as many reviews as we can find. One or two is not a good sampling. Makes me wonder if we should even have reviews in the infobox. -Freekee 05:33, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Right, FreeKee, I think those review links in the infobox should stay, whether or not they have star/number ratings or not (see Revolver as of today for an example of how I think it should look, Sgt. Peppers is fine too except we should replace the date on the RS review with 'link' - we don't put dates on the others). Yes, 'Critical reception' is in fact a section on a number of A-rated album articles and I think it's a good idea - that's the place to put some quotes from the reviews, or simply in the body of the article if it isn't big enough to justify a separate section. Cheers, Ian Rose 11:29, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

text: What about professional reviews that don't give stars or other quantitative mark?  I know Gramophone reviews classical albums, but doesn't give them stars. -Acjelen 03:06, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's what we're talking about. :-) Or at least what started the whole discussion. -Freekee 06:33, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

text: To my personal taste stars or arrows don't suit Wikipedia as an encyclopedia. They look trivial and somehow inappropriate. I second a "Critical reception" chapter. A great idea.--Peter Eisenburger 03:17, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Professional reviews

message: I was working on the Plan 9 Records page, and removed a section that listed every release by the label in chronological order. It has since been put back, so I wanted to see others' opinions on the matter. Is it appropriate for a label's article to list everything the label has put out? Granted, in this case it was only around 20 releases, it still seems a bit gratuitous. And another thing, the label put out stuff by only four different acts, all of which are referenced in the article. There is then a 'Bands who were on Plan 9 Records' section that lists all of those artists again. Should that list be there?Joltman 00:00, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Both lists seem like a good idea to me. If a release list gets too long it can still be split off... As for the bands list, if people just want to know what bands are/were on a label, such a list is probably the easiest/quickest way to get that information. After all, we also have discographies in artist articles, even when all their records are mentioned in a history section. --Fritz S. (Talk) 16:48, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Some collectors target certain labels (e.g. Vertigo, Blue Note, Stiff, Factory) rather than particular bands, so in these cases finding a way to show a comprehensive list of titles including useful info like catalog numbers would be a helpful resource. Ricadus 19:37, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Releases listed on a record label article? Also, band list necessary when all bands are already mentioned in text? 

message: Uncategorised albums is getting close to 40 - might want to give it some attention. Aelfthrytha 16:31, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uncat Albums 

message: Lately, I've been placing or removing stub tags on album articles, according to the following criteria: infobox, track listing, personnel and at least a sentence of text. What do you think about that? Are all of those required, and do you think a more substantial amount of text should be required? -Freekee 04:42, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That seems a little light to me.  I'd tend to think that if an article were to remain as brief as that long-term, and was regarded as being essentially as complete as it was ever likely to get, it'd be a candidate for being merged into a "List of" articles (at least where there's several such for the same artist).  But if people are happy with "finished" album articles being as short as that, this might be an exception to the general rule.  Alai 05:30, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: When I think of a non-stub, I think of something along the lines of say This Time Around or Pink Moon.  I think the amount of text on Appalachia Waltz is a minimum for a non-stub tag.  Obviously few album articles will reach the length and quality of articles like Illmatic, but if a stub tag encourages improvement and expansion, it would be better to keep it there. -Acjelen 06:11, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: On the other side of the coin: ideally if an article is of more-than-stub-length (and isn't horribly in need of attention otherwise), but doesn't have all of the above, it'd be moved from the stub category into some more specialised cleanup category.  (Infobox missing, release date missing, etc.)  Alai 06:29, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Freekee's criteria seems good to me... They match pretty much what I suggested earlier when we discussed Wikipedia 1.0 Assessments. --Fritz S. (Talk) 16:15, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stubs? 

message: Should an EP count as a seperate album or not? It's made from previously released songs, so I think it should not count. It bumps an artist's album count up to six, when they've really only released five and several other discs* with already released music.
*One of which is currently being counted as a full-length studio album.JimmmyThePiep 15:18, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *Wouldn't this depend on the EP? --badlydrawnjeff talk 15:23, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

text: *Well, we generally count an EP as an EP. What's the artist? What 'album count' anyway? W guice 15:39, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Some were originally released as mini-albums in their own right, e.g. the UK version of The Beatles "Magical Mystery Tour" that was subsequently bulked out with other tracks and re-released as an album later. I think the original EPs from the late 1950s were 7 inch vinyls but played at 33&1/3rd rpm, but by the 1980s the term was applied to 45 rpm disks containing more than one track per side, including 10 and 12 inchers, especially when the material was never on any albums (e.g. Kraftwerk's "Tour De France" from 1983 being one such).Ricadus 16:24, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with Ricadus. In the late 70s and early 80s many Australian bands released EPs or mini-albums which counted as stand-alone works (Models, The Birthday Party and The Laughing Clowns to name just three). I think the situation was similar at that time in the UK. Cheers, Ian Rose 08:34, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I don't think we as WP editors should take a position of judging a full-length album or EP as "counting" or "not counting" just because it contains previously released material or someone thinks the band or musician didn't "really" release it.  The triumph of the long-playing album of new material is over so we might as well adapt to it, especially since the new situation is very close to the early decades of recorded music (allowing for changes of media and scale). -Acjelen 21:36, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Separate from what? They're official releases by the band. Albums get articles, singles usually get articles. Why wouldn't EPs? Basically, they have the same notability requirements as albums. If they're compilations, they usually don't deserve articles. If they're original recordings, they do. -Freekee 04:32, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  EPs 

message: If we add [[Category:{]] to the Inforbox Album template, all those articles will bew categorised.  Is this a good idea? Rich Farmbrough, 11:45 17  November 2006 (GMT).
:The problem is that an artist field in most infoboxes links to an article about the artist. And besides, there is no way to actually create a category automatically, as far as I know. Jogers (talk) 12:37, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think it's necessary, since all albums are supposed to be categorized under albums by artist already. Albums should be in that category and not the general artist category. -Freekee 06:02, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You also have piping issues. -Freekee 06:04, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Auto-cat albums by changing template

message: There is a notability album guideline which would get rid of 90% of the articles covered by this wikiproject - Wikipedia:Notability_%28albums%29 - I suspect people may be interested. Secretlondon 16:10, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is only proposed guideline so far, I encourage WikiProject members to discuss the matter. I also think the estimation of "90% of the articles" is inaccurate. -- Reaper  X 19:18, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The inclusion points are good criteria for deciding on how to flesh out existing stubby articles – or indeed whether it's worth spending time on an article altogether. I do think that in most cases any compilation albums of pre-existing recordings should be merged into a single article for the particular musician or band, if they are needed at all. Ditto song stubs.Ricadus 19:42, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Please take your comments to the Notability (albums) talk page, not here. -- Reaper  X 19:44, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe we should discuss it here. We're the album project. Maybe we should write our own policy and present it for possible inclusion. -Freekee 03:04, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Personally I think most any albums that have been featured in review in a few large and notable music sources should be on this site. Andrzejbanas 13:24, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Notability

message: I'm trying to conform the page for The Sweet Escape to standards.  One of the writers for the song "The Sweet Escape" is Aliaune Damala Bouga Time Puru Nacka Lu Lu Lu Badara Akon Thiam, commonly referred to as Akon.  Should I really include his full name; it would probably take up a whole line by itself.  — ShadowHalo 01:17, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If Akon is common enough, that should be good enough. For decades, composers were listed on records only by their last name, so a single name ought to do it. Besides, you could just link to the article (Akon), and then it will be clear. :-) -Freekee 05:02, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Question about track listing

message: Beginning cross-post.
:See Wikipedia talk:Version 1.0 Editorial Team#Stablepedia. If you wish to comment, please comment there. ★MESSEDROCKER★ 23:45, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stablepedia 

message: I forgot to mention that I bot-populated the  with the  lacking any non-stub categories;  next, I can do the  and the .  I also notice that there's a lot of song-stubs lacking permcats;  if the album-catters are interested in working on those too, I can set up and populate an  maintenance cat (I've mentioned this at the Songs wikiproject already).  Alai 14:04, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Beats me, but any such category that people are emptying, I'm glad to refill.  Talking of which, I've 'botted somewhat over a listings page of the HM&electronic albums into the above.  Hopefully there will be another db dump soonish, and I should be able to get more recent data on albums-missing-cats.  I notice there's quite a lot of "uncategorised stubs" in the music area in general, instead of "songs", I could just create an  (or , more generally still) cleanup cat...  Alai 17:50, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Adding stubs from all the genre-album-stub categories is definitely a good idea. The song and music sound like a good idea. Try posting about it over at Wikipedia:WikiProject Music and Wikipedia:WikiProject Songs. -Freekee 18:48, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I do plan on adding them all, just gradually, lest 'supply' get too far ahead of 'demand'.  Didn't get any takers at WPJ-Songs, have now mentioned it at -Music.  Alai 21:12, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  More on uncategorisation 

message: It may be possible to create a bot to automatically do the infobox conversions for us. Could someone please enlighten me as to what needs to be done? Thank you. (Radiant) 16:33, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Most of the articles in that category are Wikitables (and also happen to be songs, not albums). So there doesn't appear to be an easy conversion. I just paste in the table formatting and drag the values from the table to the template. -Freekee 02:41, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There would be an easy conversion if the order is always the same? (Radiant) 09:31, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Is it possible to verify that the order is the same in each case?  Or would an automatic conversion just quietly "go wrong" in such cases?  Alai 16:27, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: FWIW, I converted all of the ones for U2 songs, and they all seemed to be the same (except where there were extra chronologies). Also, if they converted wrong, it would probably be obvious. The main thing is that there are different infoboxes and tables for songs than albums. I don't see many albums on the list, though. -Freekee 04:44, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I just went through the list and converted the three remaining albums manually. Now only songs are left, and I'm currently writing some regex to convert them with the AWB... I think it'll be better to do this semi-automatic/assisted than to have a bot blindly go through them, in case something gets messed up. --Fritz S. (Talk) 10:55, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That was my thought.  Basically if it's possible to write a regex to do this automatically, it should be possible to do it in AWB, with a human in the loop.  Alai 18:36, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[:Category:Needs album infobox conversion]] 

message: Back up to just over one listings page.  (Don't blame me, blame my bot!)  Alai 16:26, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Have you gone through all the stubs?  If so, I'm wondering if you can do something similar for those articles that don't have album stubs but do have Album Infoboxes.--Fisherjs 23:17, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

text: The category is starting to get up there again in number of articles —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.133.221.27 (talk) 01:24, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  {{cl|Uncategorised albums}} 

message: Hey, do you think that it's worth changing that caegory to Album articles without cover art? It looks like it's talking about the albums themselves. -Freekee 05:05, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Pedantic git, aren't you? To be honest, I agree (I'm a pedantic git too). ;-) Cheers, Ian Rose 07:32, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Fellow pedants, technically it's Album Infoboxes without cover art.  *Spark* 12:11, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: While you're correct, in that the category is populated by instances of infoboxes without images, an article missing an infobox and an image could be added to the category by direct use of the category tag. -Pedantic Git #1 03:49, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[:Category:Albums without cover art]] 

message: I haven't found style guide for track listing. How should I format it? Geevee (talk|contribs) 19:56, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Have you looked at this? Jogers (talk) 19:58, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, how stupid am I. Thank you! Geevee (talk|contribs) 20:32, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I brought this up a while ago. For reference, the answers I got: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Albums/Archive 7#Track listing display issues. Probably worth drafting up some guidelines for the main project page, but nobody's ever gotten around to it. –Unint 17:01, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Style guide for track listing 

message: This problem is applicable really only to some genres — I've noticed it with Celtic music albums. It's "specialty" nature may be why it isn't addressed in the style guide. Said problem arises when several (short) tunes are rolled up into a single set. The set is given a title as a whole and, being only one set, is only one track. Several examples of this appear on Cherish the Ladies' album, The Girls Won't Leave the Boys Alone. Track 5, for example, is made up of three tunes: "Mullin's Fancy," "The Raveled Hank of Yarn," and "Gilbert Clancy's." Yet the tunes make up a single track, called "The Raveled Hank of Yarn Set." The same thing happens for track 9 ("The Colliers' Set") and track 13 ("The Last Night's Fun Set"). Is there a policy for such cases?  — AnnaKucsma   (Talk to me!) 16:34, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I brought this up a while ago. For reference, the answers I got: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Albums/Archive 7#Track listing display issues. Probably worth drafting up some guidelines for the main project page, but nobody's ever gotten around to it. –Unint 17:01, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: When tracks are sets

message: I have noticed that many artists popular with Spanish speaking music fans (Celia Cruz, Marc Anthony, Tito Puente, etc.) have discography deficiencies.  Have you ever made a broad task of translating info from Spanish wikipedia? TonyTheTiger 15:08, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translations 

message: Should List of recordings preserved in the United States National Recording Registry have a Wikipedia:WikiProject Albums tag? TonyTheTiger 15:09, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: On the one hand, I say "sure, why not?" On the other, I say that not all of those recordings are albums. -Freekee 16:38, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of recordings preserved in the United States National Recording Registry 

message: Hi, I just joined this project.
I would like to know the naming conventions (if any have been established [I haven't found any]) for images of album covers?  Normally, this does not pose a problem, as I use this template: Image:Title of Album (Artist Name album), following Wikipedia's suggested convention.  However, I am now at a road block because I want to include alternative album covers in some pages I will be creating/editing, and there is no convention for alternative covers.
Here are two naming conventions which make the most sense to me:
* Image:Title of Album (Alternative cover, Artist Name album)
* Image:Title of Album (Artist Name album, alternative cover)
Notice the capitalization of "Alternative" in the first, but not the second example.  Also notice I use alternative not alternate.
Any comments or other suggestions? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Twas Now (talk • contribs) 01:15, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Personally I prefer small image names, just for how it looks while editing.  I don't know that the naming conventions apply to image uploads.  I see no reason to not simply append a number to the original name. --*Spark* 01:25, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Why do you feel it's important to have standardized naming? -Freekee 05:36, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I think that as long as you give a title that's clear, and preferably uses whole words, it's good.  I know I failed that practice myself in the past. (I haven't uploaded an image in ages) I don't see any reason to spend effort standardizing image names. ~Gertlex 07:05, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image naming conventions 

message: A few projects have started article lists which, when finished, will allow members to keep up with recent changes to their articles through using a recent changes program. I am in the process of beginning such a list for this project. Please inform me if you would find such an effort either a duplicate of current efforts or otherwise pointless. Thank you. Badbilltucker 20:50, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Something like a filtered watchlist? -Freekee 15:46, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article list 

message: When an EP's title needs to be disambiguated, should the article title be Title (album) or Title (EP)? Joltman 12:27, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Since there are instances of an artist releasing an album and an EP under the same title (Magical Mystery Tour is almost an example), I think Title (EP) would be the best disambig for EP's. — edgarde 13:13, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should EP articles that need to be disamgiuated use (album) or (EP)? 

message: Hey all, I was going through this category just now with WP:AWB in order to check if all articles were tagged for the Project when I can along to a couple of band pages in the category, such as U2 and Maroon 5. Before I did anything either way, is this a correct category that artists should be a part of? Am I missing something? -- moe.RON Let's talk | done 04:51, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The cat is for albums only. I hope there's not a category for bands with upcoming albums. And U2 doesn't even have an "upcoming album," as far as I can tell. -Freekee 05:59, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[:Category:Upcoming albums]] 

message: I would like to request a new rating be created to allow categories to be rated as a category like the one that is currently used by WikiProject Songs. Artist Specific Categories don't really fit in any other ratings. Thank you. Rainer1 06:59, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There already is a "NA" (non-article) category for the assessments. Maybe that one would be the one you're looking for. Badbilltucker 16:01, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request for a new rating category 

message: Is it possible to show more than two album cover images in the infobox?Justin Foote 18:59, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. See The Dark Side of the Moon for example. Jogers (talk) 19:09, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They ought to learn the difference between ‘alternate’ and ‘alternative’ though! Ricadus 02:57, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extra album Covers 

message: It is starting to fill up with 70 or so articles —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.131.124.22 (talk) 20:43, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Category:Uncategorized albums 

message: I have just added an extra chronology to The Pearl (album) but only the chronology that comes last will appear. Could someone take a look and see what my mistake is? Justin Foote 23:32, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The album template only supports one "Misc" field. So if you use two Extra Chronoloy templates, they both must be in the same "Misc" field. I did this to fix it. However, since you only have two chronologies, you'd be better off using the standard template's chronolgy fields, and adding only one Extra chronology. -Freekee 00:37, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extra chronology won’t appear 

message: :Image:Nocover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 03:07, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Nocover.jpg

message: :Image:Nocover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 18:00, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Nocover.jpg

message: :Image:Nocover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 20:43, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Nocover.jpg

message: :Image:Nocover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 07:32, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Nocover.jpg