Talk:Lucy (chimpanzee)

message: So when did all this occur? There are no dates at all in this article. --SigPig 12:06, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Dates

message: Some description of who "Fouts" is would be helpful. Ex. "Roger Fouts, who worked with Lucy as a ..."SteveMtl 23:22, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fouts

message: The statement that prevarication (informally "lying") was, before Lucy, thought to be exclusive to humans needs independent reliable sources, preferably several, and preferably from journals and other scientific works on animal communication, animal psychology, linguistics, etc., per the "Wikipedia:Exceptional claims require exceptional sources" policy. [Hint: I don't think this will actually be possible, because it's not true.] For one thing, anyone who has had a dog for any length of time knows that (at least in the smarter, larger-brained breeds) they will regularly prevaricate by attempting to hide or distract attention from wrongdoing (tearing through the garbage bag, whatever), and clearly show expression of guilt, as well as an abstract fear of punishment that may come in the near future for something done in the recent past, and an conscious willingness to deceive, mislead or distract to avoid said punishment.  All of these things obviously show a low level of basic self-awareness that does not seem to be present in wild animals or even in feral domestic populations. This isn't news; people have known this for thousands of years – one of the things that makes dogs so trainable, compared to cats and cattle and whatnot, is this very capacity for crude future-risk-vs-reward analysis.  The book that reliably provides the sign language dialogue, is obviously not reliable (if it was even the source) on a claim that people did not believe animals could prevaricate before Lucy's story came out. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ɖ⊝כ⊙þ  Contrib.  20:57, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Leaving aside higher animals like horses, when wild animals display tricks, changing colour, puffing up etc to avoid being eaten, or to lure prey, it isn't deliberate deception? Sounds like OR. Or a misreading of Thomas Aquinas' views on animal morality. In ictu oculi (talk) 05:59, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Those are all instinctual behavior patterns; I'm talking about conscious prevarication in communication behavior, from the animal toward humans, in domestic-animal–human-keeper interaction. And, yes, my point  that it's blatant original research to say in this article that no one knew domestic animals were capable of this before Lucy. If the book that  be being cited as the source for this actually said that, it is clearly unreliable on points of the history of animal ethology, even if it is reliable on the history of Lucy and her keepers. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ɖ⊝כ⊙þ  Contrib.  00:32, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Proving deliberate prevarication is not always trivial even in humans, but I agree with SMcCandlish, and would add to it that those animal behaviorists who would have rejected it in dogs, for example, would have rejected it in chimps even with the evidence given, and those who would have accepted it, the other way around.--Curtis Clark (talk) 04:57, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed the section.  It was interesting but also seemed to be a copyright violation to just reprint the dialogue and let the readers come to their own conclusions, besides what WP calls "original research." Borock (talk) 00:51, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prevarication 

message: ok, somebody paid, but "own" is not the correct word.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.120.33.2 (talk) 01:00, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Owned? 

message: Maurice Temerlin's notability is predominantly a result of his work with Lucy. His remaining work has only received passing reference and citation outside of the primate studies. Tgeairn (talk) 23:33, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed merge with [[Maurice K. Temerlin]] 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Lucy (chimpanzee). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100522142422/http://www.wnyc.org/shows/radiolab/episodes/2010/04/09 to http://www.wnyc.org/shows/radiolab/episodes/2010/04/09
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080808133619/http://www.animalpeoplenews.org/06/11/poacherskilllucy1106.html to http://www.animalpeoplenews.org/06/11/poacherskilllucy1106.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110222224512/http://www.publicradioexchange.net/pieces/45542 to http://www.publicradioexchange.net/pieces/45542
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 08:05, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: https://reason.com/2021/04/23/hbo-documents-the-tragic-tale-of-lucy-the-chimp-raised-like-a-human/printer/ --Guy Macon (talk) 03:14, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  HBO Documents the Tragic Tale of Lucy, the Chimp Raised Like a Human