Talk:History of Masonic Grand Lodges in North America

message: I have devided the GL of Massachusets entry into two parts, based on what I read on that GL's artcicle.  Unfortunately, the link to the history page at the GLMA website has been redirected, so I can not check things there.  Let me know if there are objections or if I have something wrong. Blueboar 17:00, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Try archive.org for the original page.--Vidkun 22:03, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Obviously the GLoMA claims 1733 (on their website and seal etc.) .... so to be neutral in the matter (ie following WP:NPOV) what we have to do is make note of the fact that they date themselves from the formation of the Provincial Grand Lodge, without passing judgement on the claim. Blueboar 22:20, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: AFAIK, UGLE. GLoS, and other "older" GLs accept the date.  Again, this is not a clearinghouse for scholarly ideas, but rather accepted information.  "Wrong" or not (because it's all really semantics, like "PA being the oldest Masonry in the US" despite not having an established GL at the time, or that Washington was raised in a clandestine Lodge), nothing is going to change the situation now.  WP has very clear guidelines on usage of theories. MSJapan 23:05, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

text: but everyone pretty much agrees that their claim to this date is specious Cite please?  I assume it was still waiting for the Grand Master at London to appoint his successor  Sounds like OR to me.  no one can seriously claim that this was an independent and sovereign "Grand Lodge." Sure they can, as those American GM's were allowed to issue new warrants and charters without further permission from GLE.--Vidkun 13:37, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  GLMass. 

message: I am giving up on this article.  I simply can not find sources for some Grand Lodges, and thus the article will never be complete.  Given that fact, I think my idea of demonstrating the growth and "liniage" of UGLE derived Freemasonry through a list is a non-starter.  Better to simply discribe the process in the History of Freemasonry article.
Shall we nominate it for AfD? Blueboar 15:49, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hold that thought until we get to the root of the issue. MSJapan 15:57, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No problem... holding. Blueboar 16:21, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The best source for this information is Coil's Masonic Encyclopedia. He is a completely unbiased and critical historian. A much better source than relying on G.L. webpages which can't be trusted.PGNormand 23:43, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Coil's is useless and can't be trusted either.  Pick up either edition of Coil's and look up Louisiana. Scroll down and you will see that "Albert Pike Lodge of Perfection" was created in June of 1813 in New Orleans. I tell you what, those New Orleans Scottish Rite Masons really knew some stuff. In 1813 Albert Pike was a 4 year old boy in Massachusetts and those guys knew that he would one day play an important role in the SC SJUSA!  So, do you really want to claim Coil's as infallible? --Vidkun 17:34, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Giving up on this article 

message: The following item: Provincial Grand Lodge for North America (Scotland) - Est. 1757 - By warrant issued to Colonel John Young. has a reference to Coil's article about Massachusetts.  Is this PGL the Scottish PGL in MA?  I ask, because I thought Warren was the first GM of that GL.--Vidkun 22:17, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scotland question 

message: That was my suggestion in discussion above, and it met with (some) agreement and no disagreement. I believe this article would be more informative if it listed some of the major lodges that are controversial, some of which have been around for quite a long time and have a large membership, as well as very interesting histories. They feature in the Masonic encyclopedias, so why not here too?
And of course we should make it very clear when we are discussing non-UGLE-recognized lodges.
The article is currently only devoted to UGLE-recognized lodges, according to the lead paragraph. I'm considering making a start by changing that... Fuzzypeg☻ 20:42, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  I thought this article was going to include some of the more controversial lodges? 

message: For some reason the currently controversial Grand Lodge of West Virginia did not appear in the list. I have added it with no comment. Johnday (talk) 22:01, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  West Virginia was missing 

message: I would like to propose that this article be renamed to: History of Masonic Grand Lodges in North America, as that is what the focus has shifted to.  Comments? Blueboar (talk) 17:13, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Hearing no objections... Renamed. Blueboar (talk) 14:40, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed renaming 

message: I have removed a recent addition in the "Time immemorial" section referring to a Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania (founded 1731)... What is being referred to in the source is the Coxe Provincial Grand Lodge, which was already on the list. Blueboar (talk) 19:43, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania (1731) 

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thread_title:  External links modified