Talk:William IX, Duke of Aquitaine

message: According to the historian Alfred Richard, author of Histoire des comtes de Poitou, Henry's identification as a son of William IX was an error. Henry first appears as a prior of Cluny in an 1100 charter, making him far older than William's children. In addition, Henry is not named among the children of William IX in the chronicle of Saint-Maixent; I can't imagine such a prominent individual would've been overlooked had he in fact been a son of William.
To my knowledge, no early or near-contemporary source mentions any illegitimate children for William IX. That doesn't mean that he didn't have any, it just means none were recognized, or important enough to be mentioned. Henry's mother certainly wasn't William's most famous mistress, Dangereuse, who only took up with William around 1113. Raoul de Faye, who is sometimes listed as a son of Dangereuse and William, was actually Dangereuse's son by her husband. She and William don't seem to have had any children together.
Henry of Poitou was evidently of high birth, as mentioned by the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle and the Laud Chronicle. But he doesn't seem to have been a son of William IX; indeed, he was closer to William's age in all probability.
Missi 00:48, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: No kidding! I've removed that sentence. Could his father have done that? (He died 1086.) --Michael K. Smith 02:21, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Henry of Poitou, Abbot of Cluny

message: Your article states that William married in 1088, at the age of only sixteen, "his first wife, Ermengarde, the daughter of Fulk IV of Anjou. She was reputedly beautiful and well-educated, but also suffered from severe mood-swings, vacillating between vivacity and sullenness. She was considered a nag, and had a habit of retiring in bad temper to a cloister after an argument, cutting off all contact with the outside world until suddenly making a reappearance at court as if her absence had never occurred. Such behaviour, coupled with her failure to conceive a child, led William to send her back to her father and have the marriage dissolved (1091)."
Later, Ermengarde is mentioned again, as striking up a friendship with Philippa while at Fontevraud.  
Please refer to Marc Wolterbeek's paper, "Inventing History, Inventing Her Story: The Case of William of Aquitaine's Marital Affairs", presented at the Medieval Congress in 1995 (so the information has been around for quite some time).  The claim that William was married to "Hermingerda", daughter of Fulk of Anjou is based on the very unreliable chronicle of William of Tyre, written between 1169 and 1187, more than 70 years after the events in question would have taken place.  Tyre erroneously identifies Ermengarde's mother as Bertrad/Berteleam, the sister of Amalricus de Montfort (when her mother was in fact Audearde aka Hildegarde of Beaugency, which is recorded correctly in the Wikipedia article on Ermengarde, although it, too, has her married to William of Aquitaine).  Tyre's chronicle further lacks any contemporary corroboration - not a single primary text, such as charters, decrees, obituaries, or contracts, ever mentions a marriage between William and Ermengarde while plenty exist to reference the marriage of William and Philippa.  It is highly unlikely that Ermengarde - at least as a wife of William - ever existed, which would further make a later 'friendship' with Philippa improbable.  Moreover, suggestions that Ermingarde was 'schizophrenic' or suffered from 'manic depression' is likewise sensationalized journalistic speculation stretching the constraints of historical accounts to breaking point.  
Another error has Philippa dying 28 November 1118, a date which relies solely on Alfred Richard, an early 20th century historian, and his Histoire des Comptes de Poitou (1903).  The primary text recording Philippa's death, however, is an obituary from the Priory of Fontaines, a branch of Fontevrault, stating that the nun Philippa, Countess of Poitou, died on December 4th, but does not identify the year. Further, a charter (also regarded as a primary text) records a donation by Philippa to Hugh of Montierneuf, abbot of that monastery between 1125 and 1129, making her death in 1118 impossible.  Wolterbeek also identifies other primary sources that support Philippa living well into the 1120's, as well as refuting questionable other 'wives' of William.  Philippa was his only wife.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.224.10.132 (talk) 01:22, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  genealogical error 

message: Early in the article the idea of a marriage between William and Ermengarde of Anjou is heavily discounted. However, later in the article Ermengarde is described as demanding to be reinstated as Duchess of Aquitaine.
ChuckRFord (talk) 02:38, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inconsistency