Talk:Robert Owen

message: Hello.  I don't think this photo can be of Robert Owen, who would have been in his seventies when photography proper came in.  It looks more like Thomas Carlyle. 
Regards,
Ian
:Actually I think it's an engraving.  It came from the University of Texas collection; they cite Helmolt, H.F., ed. History of the World. New York: Dodd, Mead and Company, 1902 as their source.  (I tend to trust them being an alum. *grin*) - Hephaestos|§ 14:01, 13 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Image

message: I was looking for a factual article about the causes of failure of Owen's experiments at New Harmony.  The author of this article (1911 Brittanica or whomever) clearly has a sympathetic view of Owen's beliefs.
The article is HIGHLY apologetic and forgiving about Owen's failures, and far too laudatory and lavish in praise otherwise.  I know little more about the man than I learned in high school years ago (which was in itself fairly little) so can someone with more knowledge clean up a mite? No they can't.
216.46.98.249 21:43, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You could try rewriting the parts you think are slanted. Tom Harrison Talk 19:40, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Yes, this article is a bit pious in tone and somewhat antiquated in style, as if it relies heavily on some old-fashioned hagiographical work.  But it contains much useful info.  I corrected the style a bit, linked "truck system", and added dates for the Truck Acts.pmr 11:05, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV 

message: Many European History textbooks call Owens Scottish.  Anyone care to comment on the source for his Welsh nationality here?  M. Luke Myers 02:22, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nationality 

message: The section on its formation is questionable given that the New Harmony Historical Society website (http://www.ulib.iupui.edu/KADE/newharmony/home.html) states it was originally a German Lutherian community which failed and was rescued; another useful resource for consideration of the validity of the content is Education in Robert Owen’s new society: the New Lanark institute and schools | infed.org user:ianguy
The Photo which is attached to this section is titled 'New Moral World', However it is the same photo that is used for the page on New Harmony. Which one is correct?
I believe this section needs a bit of a rewrite - the tone lacks neutrality: "Neither of them was a pauper experiment; but it must be said that the members were of the most motley description, many worthy people of the highest aims being mixed with viagrants, adventurers, and crotchety, wrongheaded enthusiasts, or in the words of Owen's son 'a heterogeneous collection of radicals... honest latitudinarians, and lazy theorists, with a sprinkling of unprincipled sharpers thrown in.'"
--Vince 16:25, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Harmony 

message: 11/19/06 The article looked like a starstruck middle school student wrote it. The grammar, syntax, punctuation, etc. was atrocious and very archaic. I fixed most of the problem areas. You'll find that the original meanings are wholly intact; the old wording has simply been improved. --Smilingsuzy 21:19, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revisions 

message: I note that this article doesn't mention Owen's invention of labour vouchers.  I'm not terribly familiar with Owen's treatment of them myself, so perhaps someone who is can add this information to the article (and also to the labour voucher article, which I have started as a stub). —Psychonaut 14:10, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Labour vouchers 

message: More information about Robert Owen's son Richard Dale Owen can be found at the following site:RICHARD OWEN
--Gr1909 (talk) 22:38, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Richard Dale Owen

message: The article states that one of Owen's 'intellectual pillars' was his belief in the cottage system. No evidence is presented in support of this. Is there any? His achievement at New Lanark was to show that the factory system could be the basis of a decent life for working people, not to turn back to cottage-based production. If I am missing something, please fill the gap.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Numero60 (talk • contribs) 23:42, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Cottage system

message: No wonder that Antioch College, based on his principles, was an utter failure. 155.84.57.253 (talk) 20:12, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: No personal responsibility

message: 1) The link to footnote 10 now seems to be   - but I can't see how to access 'Reflist 2' to change this;
2) There is a significant question to be asked - maybe it's been raised on other pages:and   
The International Co-operative Alliance (ICA) uses the hyphenated forms of co-operation, co-operative, co-operator, co-op etc - including its own name.  
(Notably - and confusingly, Google (and other web-based searches eg at the Chapters/Indigo catalogue) returns different results depending on the search term co-operation/cooperation.  This makes for highly misleading literature/web searches for students and so on.  
For convenience, I pronounce the unhyphenated form 'cooper -/- ation' rather than the etymological - and historically accurate pronunciation 'co -/- operation' to make the ambiguity in usage that is described below.)
Indeed, the US usage of the (unhyphenated) term 'cooperation' is ambiguous - as in 'thank-you for your cooperation' (as a cipher for 'your compliance is expected - or else there will be unpleasant, likely violent, consequences for you').  Worryingly for educators, and others, this also finds use in ambiguous terms such as 'getting your child to cooperate (with you)' as a cipher for 'getting your child to comply (with your demands)'.
(Notably - this is also the case in most dominant/dominating culture/capitalist publication and wider usage, where the unhyphenated form is used without discrimination as to these alternative meanings - something that the most recent versions of the Oxford English Dictionary, most regrettably, have decided upon - despite the contrary evidence.)
So my discussion point is: 
Should Wikipedia use the ICA hyphenated forms of co-operation, co-operative, co-operator, co-op etc?  I'd say yes.  Views? None.
John courtneidge (talk) 17:16, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Two points 

message: The article assigns Owen to the category Welsh people of Dutch descent, but doesn't provide a source.  There is no mention of it in the biographical section of the article and no mention of it in his autobiography.   EricWR (talk) 22:57, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The 1907 biography of Owen by Frank Podmore mentions a tenuous connection with Dutch labour colonies at Frederik's Oord. But I can see nothing about any Dutch ancestry. I think it is a mistake. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:08, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Ancestry

message: I deleted two links, i suggest people be on the lookout for this name problem in the future. I moved his links to his page  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nathanielfirst (talk • contribs) 22:41, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Incorrect links to a US senator from oklahoma named Robert Owen below

message: I've found and added many of the missing citations to the article, and identified specific text with the "citations needed" note. You can help to improve this article by adding more of the missing citations from reliable sources. Rosalina523 (talk) 19:14, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Additional citations needed

message: This sentence doesn't seem like it could possibly be true, just based on internal evidence:
"However, some of Owen's schemes displeased his partners, forcing him to arrange for other investors to buy his share of the business in 1813 for $800,000 (US)."
I believe that it should really read something like "..forcing him to arrange for other investors to buy his partner's share of the business..."   It seems really unlikely that it was Owen's share that was bought out since, first, he found investors, including " Jeremy Bentham and William Allen, a well-known Quaker"  who obviously agreed with his social philosophy and were apparently willing to accept reduced profits .  In addition it seems like Owen continued to operate as the general manager, and continued to implement his social progress schemes, etc after the buy-out (eg instituting universal free education in Lanark in 1818).  
I'd just change this to except for the fact that I am just going on internal evidence from the article itself, and common sense, not any independent knowledge of the facts of the situation.
There are three sentences in this article that seem very problematic.   
The first sentence is obviously a quote from a very sympathetic source.  It may very well be true, or at least partially true, but it is pretty hard to believe as stated.  I'd recommend that it at least be set off in quote marks and a reference provided, with maybe some sort of a caution that the author was (one presumes) a strong partisan.    Right now the sentance is simply in-line in the text, presented as objective fact, without even any supporting references.  
"The manners of the children brought up under his system were beautifully graceful, genial and unconstrained; health, plenty, and contentment prevailed; drunkenness was almost unknown; and illegitimacy extremely rare."
The second sentence is less extreme, but I would guess, is just a continuation of the quote from the previous source, and ought to be handled the same way.  
"Owen's relationship with the workers remained excellent, and all the operations of the mill proceeded with smoothness and regularity." 
The third sentence is no doubt a continuation of the same quote, but suffers from the drawback of being obviously untrue, as shown from internal evidence provided in the next paragraph of the article.  Far from being a commercial success, Owen's partners wished to sell their shares in the business and Owen had to find new partners who were willing to accept subnormal rates of returns on their investment.  
"Furthermore, the business was a commercial success."  — Preceding unsigned comment added by DlronW (talk • contribs) 23:14, 25 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  This claim seems pretty hard to believe.  Perhaps it's a typo? 

message: Hi, I'm removing Southgate, Troy. Robert Owen: Welsh Radical & Co-operative Pioneer from the additional reading. It's not a primary source, and doesn't seem to add much seems like an opinion piece from a website that advocates "Race Separatism". I don't think this is very useful to link.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.182.149.165 (talk) 03:52, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Culling an additional reading link. 

message: Robert Owen, a Scotsman, who lived in Braxfield House, Lanark, in early eighteen hundreds, is not this Robert Owen, a Welshman.  This note will assist editors researching these items.--Dthomsen8 (talk) 20:34, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Robert Owen, a Scotsman

message: This is them:
"Perhaps one of Robert Owen's most rememberable idea is his silent monitor method. Owen opposed to common corporal punishment, therefore, to have some form of discipline he developed the "silent monitor". In his mills, he would hang a four-sided block each displaying a different color representing the behavior of the employee. The color for poor performance was black and he believed it aligned with the Scottish term 'black-affronted' meaning to be embarrassed. While the opposite being white to symbolize meritorious conduct. His strategy was successful as employees at the time cared about maintain a good relationship with Owen in order to leave a good impression on him, since he took a different approach to employees' regulation. This idea supports his overall thought that human nature is molded for better or worse by the environment. Owen had a significant impact on British socialism as well on unionism that helped him set an example for others. That no matter the background one has whether rich or poor one can always change the status quo and be unalike anyone before.
Owen grew to be known as a utopian and his works clearly reflect. He took a step closer to socialism defining that it will be the next safe and fair treatment of society's labor. Although himself would be considered a bourgeoisie member his relationship with the high class was often complicated. He fought do pass legislation that benefit workers. He was mainly responsible for the Factory Act of 1819.[citation needed] He defended the idea that the government should employ the poor villages.  His ideas mostly supported socialist ideas for which capitalist and government where not a big fan, thus his utopian or socialist did not carry on for much time in Britain or in the United States, where to tried to create his own society." Odbwu0c (talk) 13:21, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. The paragraphs add nothing to the article, so please feel free to edit or remove them. The whole of the "Philosophy and Influence" section, including it's sub-sections, is a jumble and would benefit from a complete overhaul - quite a large task I suspect. RedKite (talk) 08:32, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  The last two paragraphs in the "Philosophy and Influence" section are in really bad shape. Perhaps they should be removed altogether?