Template talk:Infobox F1 driver

message: User:Pchc87 added the "Last win" and "Last Grand Prix" stats to the template recently (but filled in relevant the stats in the Michael Schumacher article only).  I have a couple of questions: 
* What do you all think of these?  Are they good additions to the template?
* What is the correct entry for M. Schumacher's "Last Grand Prix?"  I put the 2006 Italian GP there (as it was the last race he contested to date), but it was changed to Brazil and now it's blank.   Majin Izlude talk! 19:11, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think "Last win" is useful. I think "Last race" is important in template:Former F1 driver but I don't have strong feelings about whether or not it's included in this template. Note that if it is included in this template, then every current driver article needs to be updated after every Grand Prix. DH85868993 10:17, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Last win and Last Grand Prix columns 

message: Just wondering whether we should remove the "edit" link from the template, to discourage accidental editing and/or vandalism. DH85868993 00:06, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Removed (a while back). DH85868993 02:22, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  edit link 

message: While I was watching the Malaysian GP on Sunday, I was curious about the number of starts each driver had done before his first win. This got me thinking that other people might be interested in it as well. Do others think that this would be of enough interest in order to warrant a place in the infobox? If so, would starts before first pole also get a place? Rascalb (talk) 18:55, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think either is worth including in the infobox. If the number is very large (e.g. Fisichella, Button, Trulli, Barichello) or very low (e.g. Baghetti, J.Villeneuve) then this can/should be mentioned in the main body of the article. Incidentally, the list of the top ten "number of starts before first win" is documented here in case you weren't aware. DH85868993 (talk) 03:34, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Starts before first win 

message: Must be added the option to reduce image size for files having poor resolution (see the ugly effect at Gerard Larrousse. --Attilios (talk) 21:07, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Image size

message: I've noticed a couple of instances recently where a driver's place of birth has been added to the birth_date field, e.g. here and here. Question 1: Do we want to see place of birth/death included in the F1 driver infobox? Question 2: If yes to question 1, are we happy for that to be achieved using the existing birth_date and death_date fields (as in the linked examples), or would we like to add new birth_place and death_place fields (as in )? Discuss. DH85868993 (talk) 02:00, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: As the template is generally used at the top of biographical-type articles, I guess that it should ideally include separate fields for all the applicable  fields. All of the random sample of 10 templates that I looked at in Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Infoboxes do. -- de Facto (talk). 12:27, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I do agree we should be including places of birth/death. Like de Facto said, it's on every biographical article I've seen, so we should be following the convention set by other templates in having separate fields. QueenCake (talk) 21:54, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't have a strong opinion on this, but if birthplaces etc are to be included, they should be in separate fields rather than together with the birthdate. Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:04, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: OK. It looks like there's support for new fields to be added, so I have done that. DH85868993 (talk) 01:08, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Place of birth/death 

message: I sometimes wonder if this infobox occupies too much screen space, especially for drivers who didn't achieve much in their F1 career (e.g. Gianmaria Bruni). Would it be preferable to display some of the statistics horizontally and/or provide the ability to hide the statistics, as is done in Template:Infobox motorcycle rider? DH85868993 (talk) 02:10, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not think the infobox occupies too much space and I do not think that we should shorten the data to save space. But I do think that they should provide the ability to hide the statistics. Editadam 11:53, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a problem, especially with the ones that were barely around, but the idea of an infobox is to have all the information displayed in the same place, so I don't agree with changing it. Having an option for hiding it is a good idea however, for the drivers who don't have enough text to actually go past the infobox. QueenCake (talk) 21:54, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not keen on hiding an infobox, or parts of one. It's supposed to be a precis of the article, and should be readily available regardless of the quality of the guy's career. Any F1 driver should have enough information available to extend past the bottom of the infobox anyway, it's just a matter of finding it. I just about managed it with Asdrúbal Fontes Bayardo and he's as obscure as they come. Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:04, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too much screen space? 

message: Some drivers wear characteristic helmets. Can we add a field to allow an image of a driver's helmet colours to be displayed, the same way we show jersey colours for football teams? --Kwekubo (talk) 15:21, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Is the helmet a part of a drivers notability? If we are adding it to the drivers infobox then it would have to be something considered important for all, or at the very least a majority of driver. Would we then be able to source images for the several hundred drivers involved, bearing in mind Wikipedia does not have access to a huge photo library. If the drivers helmet is a small part of a drivers notability, or for a small number of drivers, then perhaps just a helmet section in the article, like for Valentino Rossi would be more appropriate than adding an image line that is going to be used for only about 30 or so drivers. --Falcadore (talk) 03:44, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sure we considered something like this before, with the consensus being that an image that was solely a helmet design would be subject to copyright restrictions and we wouldn't be able to claim fair use if there wasn't a critical commentary on it. Besides, they change all the time nowadays. It's best to keep helmets out of the infobox. Readro (talk) 09:09, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Say this went through - how do you account for changes in helmet design? Every time Sebastian Vettel wins a race, he gives the helmet away and commissions a new design. So he regularly changes his helmet, and it's not like he only makes minor variations; the colours are often dramatically different from one race to the next. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 11:30, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I like this one. The helmet is a shorthand for the driver (& on the game sites I'm on, substitutes for a portrait ;p ). I do wonder about a new pic every time Vettel changes it, tho. 8o (That's only twice during a race, right? ;p ) I also wonder about getting good pics. Also, how far back do we go? I'd be reluctant to have this just for current drivers. (I know, it wasn't a commonplace in the '60s, but...)  TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura 03:08, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The fair use problem for the images is probably going to wreck this idea. Unless someone figures out a solution or goes around taking photos of race helmets, it's a non-starter. Plus modern drivers change them too often and the recognition factor goes out of the window, Vettel being a prime example. Bretonbanquet (talk) 12:57, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Helmet 

message: Is it to show how great a driver was? Mean we've been through 3 different point systems since the turn of the century and if it's to show a drivers greatness then it's flawed and irreverent. Mean you used to get a point for 6th then 8th and now 10th. Poles, wins and podiums are a greater marker of a drivers ability rather than the number of points they collected due to the different systems. Disability expert (talk) 21:45, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is the point in career points? 

message: (moved from Template talk:Infobox F1 driver/doc)
The formula 1 TV broadcasts use three letter abbreviations for every driver, and have done so for the past fifteen years at least. Wouldn't it make sense to show those abbreviations in the inbox, too? Yoe (talk) 12:29, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I have advertised this discussion at the Formula One WikiProject. DH85868993 (talk) 09:44, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: What would this look like? Wicka wicka (talk) 11:44, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  abbreviations? 

message: As we've seen on Tom Pryce talk page, 'Nationality' is offensive to some readers and editors, when used on biogs of drivers from countries such as Wales and Scotland. 'Representing' seems to be a better fit. If there's no objection, I'll change it. Sian EJ (talk) 10:18, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd suggest waiting until we see the outcome of the discussion at WP:F1 before making any change. DH85868993 (talk) 10:23, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

text: Also note that the current "Nationality" values are written as "British", "French", etc, so changing the text to "Representing" (if that's what you're proposing) would make them display as "Representing: British", "Representing: French", etc, which would be grammatically incorrect. DH85868993 (talk) 18:00, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The current link is "Nationality", I suggest changing the last part to "Licence". --Pelmeen10 (talk) 17:26, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: That would solve the grammar issue. But I still suggest waiting to see the outcome of the WP:F1 discussion before making any changes. DH85868993 (talk) 20:10, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

text: Agree with 'Licence'; this takes the heat out of the debate, and suggest that it's done now, rather than later. It is not dependant on any concesus as to whether an Infobox can contain 'Nationality'. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 09:14, 25 October 2018 (UTC)

text: Changing something just because it offends a few folks, isn't a good idea. GoodDay (talk) 14:37, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: That depends on the nature of the offence, the reasons behind it, and counter arguments. Each case should be looked at on its merits, but in this case the merits are poor. Pyrope 14:51, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Change 'Nationality' to 'Representing' 

message: It has recently come to my attention that the way we use |nationality = in this infobox violates MOS:INFOBOXUSE as us it to refer to sporting nationality, but other infoboxes use it to refer to personal nationality. It is therefore necessary for us to change the name of the parameter. I suggest that we change the parameter name to |representing =. How this appears in the infobox is more complicated, as the idea that drivers represent their nations is disputed (as people argue that aren't explicitly chosen), I therefore suggest that it renders as Competing as. Any thoughts or alternate suggestions? SSSB (talk) 09:58, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: For a start, MOS is a guideline and not a law. Guidelines cannot be violated, they are applied with common sense. I therefore disagree that a change is necessary. The parameter is not used here as a nationality parameter in the personal information section of an infobox. We have a seperate section to list the world championship endeavours of the drivers and its nationality parameter is wikilinked to clarify its meaning. Just because one rogue editor claims this is unacceptable, it doesn’t mean it is. They do not own wikipedia. They need to stop their actions or be reported to the administrators.Tvx1 10:45, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems like a non-issue to me as well.  Ved havet 🌊 (talk)  14:29, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

text: This a non-issue, but the editor(s) opposed to this for whatever reason seem quite persistent. I propose we simply rename the parameter |f1 nationality = and continue on our merry way. 5225C (talk • contributions) 15:01, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Nationality

message: I do not understand why we should have engines section (What is next? Tyres? Fuels?), i.e. Ayrton Senna. For me it seems like complete WP:Trivia. Corvus tristis (talk) 04:10, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: The section is there because the engine manufacturers directly affect the drivers' performance and results, and also influence their careers. For example, Honda had a big influence on Ayrton Senna's career (see for example this source to better understand the relevance, and a team insider even says that he tended to think of Senna "as a Honda driver with a McLaren chassis"). For some drivers like Kazuki Nakajima, the engine manufacturer is arguably more relevant than the team, because he probably would not have competed in F1 without Toyota engines. Fuels and tyres generally have not had anywhere near as much impact on drivers' careers. Also note that this was previously discussed at WP:F1. Carfan568 (talk) 09:22, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I understand your point but not sure if this impact is so much notable for majority of drivers, especially nowdays. I do not understand why this impact can't be described in text. My assumption that infobox should include limit amount of most important information. I would like to hear more opinions on these matter. Also I do not understand why if we treat this template feature as consensus-supported it had not reflection in the most of the drivers' articles. Corvus tristis (talk) 04:27, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Engines section 

message: Shouldn't this be a field? I was looking at George Russell's stats to see how this had been handled, and was disappointed. Obviously his sprint win doesn't count as a Grand Prix race win, but surely it should be displayed in some way? Mac Dreamstate (talk) 01:04, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: It’s in the prose of his article.Tvx1 09:05, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

text: And in his results matrix. What we shouldn't do is add fields to the infobox which aren't commonly used by other articles, sprint wins is one of those fields. (, )  SSSB (talk) 10:10, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sprint wins