Category talk:Lists of people by name

message: As of 16:59, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it.  Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any).  No further edits should be made to this page.  
The result of the debate was merge to :Category:Lists of people by name  --Kbdank71 15:17, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

text: The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.
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_ _ I am unaware of any way in which this decision has any direct adverse effect -- other than as a distraction -- on my WP work. Like Radiant, i never understood what need there was to Cat index-only pages separately. (However, it's easy to imagine various real needs: the distinction is indeed significant; see below. And obviously someone saw a need, tho i don't recall who.) I've been (i think) faithfully installing the tag when i create such pages, and to my knowledge i am the only one who has ever created any. 
_ _ I'm commenting here bcz i find it a gross miscarriage of the intent of our processes, that this process could have been avoided if it weren't was carried out without querying me, who created the pages and at least implicitly placed all of the recent tags, and without any sign of querying whoever it was who created the category. (That would be the person who, IIRC, explicitly and/or implicitly asked me to include the tags in future creations.)
_ _ If my input had been requested, the first things i'd have noted are that
# The nom'r inferred a syntax for the nom'd Cat's title, and they and all other voters implicitly based their votes on accepting that inferred syntax as accurate. The title's syntax may be ambiguous. Even if what was inferred is consistent, it is clear that it contradicts the meaning intended by the Cat's creator. So all reasoning cited in the process is contrary to the facts.
# The reason given for nomination, and essentially adopted by all voters, is essentially that there is no such thing on en: as a single List of people by name. The arguement has been made before, in a more appropriate forum, that that title is inaccurate, and answered, apparently to the satisfaction of the editor making it. My version of that answer would be:
#:: A list does not have to be embodied in a single WP page to constitute a WP list, and structuring its multiple pages into a tree whose root is the page with that title is the only practical possibility for many reasons, and the least confusing approach.
#: Any merge or change of Cat title based on the belief that a main-namespace page is misnamed should proceed only after the misnaming has been corrected.  In this case, that would imply the renaming of approximately 700 main-namespace pages, at least 27 of which have borne the same name for 71% of WP's history. (Prior to the current titles, those 27 had names implying a single "listing", and the two sets of titles together cover 94% of the period.) Obviously that requires announcement on Talk:List of people by name, and discussion on one of its subpages.
# The category for lists of people could logically include the LoPbN inx-only pages, but IMO it is most likely to be used by users looking for pages that contain names but nothing else beyond navigational aids.  Such users would be ill-served by dumping these permanently name-free pages in with the others. 
# Bcz LoPbN inx-only pages show up on the very-short-pages list, the abolished Cat may be a valueable backup to the padding of Inx-only pages with comments, which i do in compliance with a request from very-short-pages watchers.
--Jerzy•t 16:59 & 17:18, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: :The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it.  Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any).  No further edits should be made to this page.  
The result of the debate was merge to :Category:Lists of people by name  --Kbdank71 15:17, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.
----
_ _ I am unaware of any way in which this decision has any direct adverse effect -- other than as a distraction -- on my WP work. Like Radiant, i never understood what need there was to Cat index-only pages separately. (However, it's easy to imagine various real needs: the distinction is indeed significant; see below. And obviously someone saw a need, tho i don't recall who.) I've been (i think) faithfully installing the tag when i create such pages, and to my knowledge i am the only one who has ever created any. 
_ _ I'm commenting here bcz i find it a gross miscarriage of the intent of our processes, that this process could have been avoided if it weren't was carried out without querying me, who created the pages and at least implicitly placed all of the recent tags, and without any sign of querying whoever it was who created the category. (That would be the person who, IIRC, explicitly and/or implicitly asked me to include the tags in future creations.)
_ _ If my input had been requested, the first things i'd have noted are that
# The nom'r inferred a syntax for the nom'd Cat's title, and they and all other voters implicitly based their votes on accepting that inferred syntax as accurate. The title's syntax may be ambiguous. Even if what was inferred is consistent, it is clear that it contradicts the meaning intended by the Cat's creator. So all reasoning cited in the process is contrary to the facts.
# The reason given for nomination, and essentially adopted by all voters, is essentially that there is no such thing on en: as a single List of people by name. The arguement has been made before, in a more appropriate forum, that that title is inaccurate, and answered, apparently to the satisfaction of the editor making it. My version of that answer would be:
#:: A list does not have to be embodied in a single WP page to constitute a WP list, and structuring its multiple pages into a tree whose root is the page with that title is the only practical possibility for many reasons, and the least confusing approach.
#: Any merge or change of Cat title based on the belief that a main-namespace page is misnamed should proceed only after the misnaming has been corrected.  In this case, that would imply the renaming of approximately 700 main-namespace pages, at least 27 of which have borne the same name for 71% of WP's history. (Prior to the current titles, those 27 had names implying a single "listing", and the two sets of titles together cover 94% of the period.) Obviously that requires announcement on Talk:List of people by name, and discussion on one of its subpages.
# The category for lists of people could logically include the LoPbN inx-only pages, but IMO it is most likely to be used by users looking for pages that contain names but nothing else beyond navigational aids.  Such users would be ill-served by dumping these permanently name-free pages in with the others. 
# Bcz LoPbN inx-only pages show up on the very-short-pages list, the abolished Cat may be a valueable backup to the padding of Inx-only pages with comments, which i do in compliance with a request from very-short-pages watchers.
--Jerzy•t 16:59 & 17:18, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[:Category:List of people by name index-only pages]] to [[:Category:Lists of people by name index-only pages]]