Talk:Type 209 submarine

message: The "background" section gives very little actual background on the sub design history.  Instead it reads like a list of countries operating the boat.  Does someone have anything to add about the boat's development/history/construction? Antimatter--talk-- 00:56, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Background? 

message: Hi all, I've matched thhe info in this article with the one in the Spanish Wikipedia dedicated to the argentinian ARA Salta (S-31), and I've found that the subtype mentioned there is the 1200, while in the English Wikipedia article is mentioned as subtype 1100. Even worse, in the Official website the ARA Salta is classified as IKL-290!  Can anyone please clarify, mentioning verifiable sources (and providing citations please!), so both wikiarticles can be improved with consistent information?  Many thanlks & kindest regards, DPdH (talk) 06:22, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The HDW website and the Official Argentine Navy are both wrong, that subs are 1100 class, the only difference is the bow sonar array, and I know this very well because they are identical to the Peruvian 209/1100 class, ships than I know in person. Greetings.Cloudaoc (talk) 14:09, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Verifiable published sources would be appreciated. Esw01407 (talk) 17:51, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  That's the problem! The main sources (Jane's, Conway`s, the ARA website, even the HDW website) publish the same wrong information, which is hard to believe, but is true. In many web forums this issue has been clarified long time ago, but I don't know if they can be used as sources here in Wikipedia. Greetings.--Cloudaoc (talk) 04:43, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Correct subtype for the Argentinian sub? 

message: The Argentinian ships are 209/1200 as listed by various sources including other Wikipedia pages  List of submarine classes, Globalsecurity Type 209 Ship List, and World Navies Today Argentina.  Two ships were originally built, but one was discarded in the 90's World Navies Today Argentina and Global submarines
Esw01407 (talk) 04:23, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Correct subtype for the Argentinian sub Continued 

message: There are many discrepancies’ currently with the Type 209 subtypes within these pages and other sources. 
 
The Argentinian ships are 209/1200 as listed by various sources including other Wikipedia pages  List of submarine classes, Globalsecurity Type 209 Ship List, and World Navies Today Argentina.  Two ships were originally built, but one was discarded in the 90's World Navies Today Argentina and Global submarines
The Peru ships are all 209/1200 Globalsecurity Type 209 Ship List, The Naval Institute Guide to Combat Fleets of the World
The Indonesia ships are all 209/1300 as listed by various sources including other Wikipedia pages List of submarine classes,  Globalsecurity Type 209 Ship List, The Naval Institute Guide to Combat Fleets of the World, and World Navies Today: Indonesia.  
The Venezuela ships are all 209/1300 as listed by various sources including other Wikipedia pages List of submarine classes,  Globalsecurity Type 209 Ship List, and World Navies Today: Venezuela.  
The Brazil ships should all be listed as 209/1400; though the final ship of the design is heavily modified it is not a 1500.  The Naval Institute Guide to Combat Fleets of the World
Esw01407 (talk) 23:53, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Correct subtype for the Type 209 operators 

message: Look, the most simple way to know if the argentinian 209 are 1100 is seeing their pictures, and you notice than the sonar bow is different of the 1200, because the latter have an different sonar array, for example:
Image:S31ARASalta.jpg|Argentine Navy ARA Salta is a Type 209/1100 (see the BOW
File:BAP Pisagua (SS-33) 2008.jpg|And the BAP Pisagua, a Type 209/1200 class submarine (see the BOW again)
If you notice, the bow is different, that the ONLY visible difference between the 1100 and 1200. The sources are wrong, I was on board in many of the Peruvian Navy 209s a lot of times, and I know very well who is who. One thing is the "paper" and other thing is the reality. I can assure you than the people who write that texts never see in his life an 209 class submarine. Greetings. -Cloudaoc (talk) 01:09, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fixing Posting so it looks normal 

message: I would like to request a neutral third opinion or sources on the Argentinian ships, because if this this true, many sources are wrong.
Esw01407 (talk) 02:13, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll agree, but I'm very sure about that, I know a few Peruvian submarine crewman who confirm my affirmation. Greetings.-Cloudaoc (talk) 02:23, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've been trying to nail down these Argentinian ships issues.  I would like to present a source that I found during research of the Salta-class that could explain the sonar issue. The Naval Institute guide to world naval weapons systems on Page 622-623 they discuss that the Salta class has a different sonar system then other Type 209’s (Greece has had there submarines with this sonar upgraded).   Otherwise, I can't find anything that says this ship is an 1100.Esw01407 (talk) 01:16, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, the Peruvian magazine PeruDefensa & Seguridad assures than the 209/1100 Islay class is effectively equipped with the CSU-3-2 sonar array (was recently modernized), as the Argentinian Salta, but the 209/1200 Angamos class is equipped with the CSU-3-4 sonar array. The book than you referred is an excellent source but is not free of errors, an this is one, because as Jane's includes the entire Peruvian 209 fleet in the same class. Greetings. --Cloudaoc (talk) 03:12, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Where I'm trying to go with this, I would care for a definite source that tells that the Saltas are 1100's.  Every source says they are 1200's.  Esw01407 (talk) 15:42, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  ThyssenKrupp's webpage (Owner of Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft) ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems - Contracts 1960-1980 lists the submarines for the Argentine Navy as 209/1200.  They also list all 6 Peruvian Navy submarines as 209/1200.Esw01407 (talk) 02:46, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Third Party Source 

message: I just want to bring up questions about the Thomson class.  I've noticed many sources list these as either 1300's or 1400's.  Chile's own website does not seem to know which subtype.   
Submarine Simpson (V) - 1300-L Submarine Thomson (V) - 1400-L
Esw01407 (talk) 15:56, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: ThyssenKrupp's webpage (Owner of Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft) ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems - Contracts 1960-1980 lists the submarines for the Chilean Navy as 209/1400.Esw01407 (talk) 02:46, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Even the website of ThyssenKrupp is wrong (surprisingly) because also states than the Peruvian 209 are all Type 1200, the Chilean are 1300L as far I know, but I can confirm this data with a friend who works in ASMAR, the main Chilean shipyard. Greetings --Cloudaoc (talk) 18:17, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thomson class 

message: At this point, I think the huge text created due to the debate of the Chang Bogo class defeats the purpose of the operators table. Again, I'd like to suggest either moving most of the text to the Variants section and referencing it in the operators table, or due to the extensive debate and information coming forward, I think the Chang Bogo class could have its own page like the Shishumar class and Heroine class. I've created a test page as an example in my Sandbox , and again, refer the debate of these upgrades to this new page from the operators table. Esw01407 (talk) 17:33, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chang Bogo class page creation / Type 209 submarine 

message: Shouldn't Israel be part of the list of nations that operate Type 209 subs since the Dolphin class submarines are modified Type 209's ?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.118.170.231 (talk) 00:52, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Israel 

message: I think the tittle should be uniform. The title of this article should be U-209 class submarine such as Kilo class submarine, Collins class submarine or Scorpene class submarine. Thank you for your consideration.Gsarwa (talk) 06:55, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Title

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thread_title: File:Type 209-1400 Galata.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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