Talk:Mesonychia

message: I have reverted a recent change on Andrewsarchus mongoliensis where Mesonychia was listed as a suborder of Artiodactyla.  There are two competing hypothesis concerning the nearest relatives of Mesonychia.  The traditional morphological view suggests that they are related to whales.  Under this view either Mesonychia, Cetacea, and Artiodactyla are separate orders, the order Cetacea (or Cete as seen in McKenna and Bell, 1997) includes a suborder Mesonychia, or Mesonychia is a suborder of Cetartiodactyla, an order uniting whales and artiodactyls.  
Alternatively, recent molecular and morphological work suggests that whales evolved from within the "artiodactyls" and Mesonychia represents a close relative but a distinct group.  Under this view either Mesonychia and Cetartiodactyla are distinct orders, or Mesonychia is the most basal suborder within the Cetartiodactyla.  To my knowledge no authorities argue that the mesonychids are more closely related to artiodactyls than to cetaceans.
I think recognizing Mesonychia as a distinct order is consistent with any of these hypotheses for relationships and would be the most appropriate position for us to take.  Alternatively, it could be treated as a suborder of Cete (Cetacea) if we accept the old morphological hypothesis, but I don't think that's the mainstream approach since the publication of the molecular findings.  --Aranae 21:59, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Order or suborder

message: Southern Elephant Seal is said to be the largest land predator, not Kodiak Bear, and the difference is very significant (2045 kg vs 700 kg for average males).  On the other hand, seals are not hunting while on land.
Proski 21:26, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Although seals are capable of moving onto land, they are not considered to be terrestrial carnivores.  However, I wonder if Andrewsarchus was as big/heavy as a Southern Elephant Seal...--Mr Fink 21:30, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Largest predator

message: Ultimately, I think we should make Mesonychidae its own article, rather than just a redirect to this page.  Good idea, bad idea?--Mr Fink 12:21, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. Good idea. - UtherSRG (talk) 12:49, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Separation

message: See wp:lead. The lead should summarize the article, which necessitates some redundancy. The lead should also make the reader care and be accessible. That's why I added reference to cetaceans. Leadwind 01:43, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hippos aren't the ancestors of whales: they share the most recent common ancestor with whales.--Mr Fink (talk) 20:58, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  cetaceans 

message: Can you really call it a hoof when it's just a tiny blunt nail at the end of the digit? Unless they walk on it, it really doesn't qualify as a hoof.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.73.70.113 (talk) 20:12, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tiny hoofs 

message: What's the difference . 05:24, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Mesonychians can not be classified as "carnivorous artiodactyls" because they are not artiodactyls.  Among other things, if you had bothered to read the article, artiodactyls and primitive whales have an astralagus bone shaped like a pulley, which mesonychians do not.--Mr Fink (talk) 06:04, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why can't mesonychids be classified are carnivorous artiodactyls 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: Moved (closed by non-admin page mover) BegbertBiggs (talk) 13:56, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Mesonychid →  – Taxonomic names for extinct taxa themselves should be prioritized over taxonomic term versions, consistent with taxonomic clades where WP:CommonName doesn't apply. In this case, Mesonychia should be prioritized over "mesonychid." PrimalMustelid (talk) 17:57, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

text: Note: WikiProject Palaeontology has been notified of this discussion. UtherSRG (talk) 18:05, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

text: Note: WikiProject Mammals has been notified of this discussion. UtherSRG (talk) 18:05, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

text: Note: WikiProject Cetaceans has been notified of this discussion. UtherSRG (talk) 18:05, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

text: Support per above, esp. Plantdrew's note about Mesonychia vs Mesonychidae. Having this article as mesonychid is like having France at French. Happy editing, SilverTiger12 (talk) 17:47, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 11 October 2023 

message: The redirect Proto-Artiodactyl has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached.  Plantdrew (talk) 21:36, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  "[[:Proto-Artiodactyl]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: The redirect Cete (clade) has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached.  Plantdrew (talk) 21:52, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  "[[:Cete (clade)]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]]