Talk:Dick Button

message: Button did so many firsts.  The photo of him competing in the Olympics at an outdor arena is great.  How the standards have changed.  I wonder what they did without a Zamboni.  One spin description that is missing is the flying camel spin. Despite a name change it still isn't in Wikipedia.  Kd4ttc 23:06, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flying camel? 

message: Since someone felt the need to air the incident in Central Park, I took the liberty of clairflying this incident. It was not a random bashing and although it was unfortunate what had happened to him...he was from the neighborhood and know of the possible dangers of jogging at night. He is not without responsibility?
: Your "clairflying" [sic] was purely speculation without a reliable source, and has been removed per the Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons policy.  The contemporary New York Times coverage of the attacks was very careful not to identify Button as gay or assign any motive to his presence in the area other than that stated in the article: namely, that he was passing through the area while jogging and had stopped to watch a fireworks display when he was attacked around 9:30 pm on July 5, 1978.  Quote from the NYT (July 8, 1978):  "But the police were at pains to point out that there was no specific indication that people who frequented the area or those who were victims of the attacks--which apparently took place suddenly and at random--were in fact homosexuals."  Dr.frog 03:12, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nobody posted any "bashing" of Button in the article.  Button was the victim of a high-profile, well-documented hate crime.  Whether he is gay or not, I have no idea.  FWIW, the article also mentions that he was married for a time.  Should we delete that, too, because people could interpret that as meaning Button is not gay?  Documented facts are documented facts; the article as written merely reports them and doesn't attempt to draw any particular conclusions either way.  Dr.frog 19:10, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

text: It is as relevant as Dan Rather's "Kenneth, what's the frequency?" attack, and should be mentioned.  However writing that he "is not without responsibility" is despicable victim-blaming.  The only ones responsible are the thugs who perpetrated the crimes.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.132.218.4 (talk) 14:59, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Head injury

message: You might look at this article.  Dr.frog (talk) 05:04, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Button was undeniably the victim of a hate crime, even if he was just in in the wrong place in the wrong time and not one of the intended targets of the gang.  Note the quote above from the NY Times:  "But the police were at pains to point out that there was no specific indication that people who frequented the area or those who were victims of the attacks--which apparently took place suddenly and at random--were in fact homosexuals."  When I drafted the text for the article I tried to make it clear that the attacks were random and avoid any implication that Button himself was gay.  (As you say, there is apparently nothing in the public record about that.)  Can we try to come up with some alternate wording that does not try to disguise the true nature of the crime that was committed against him?  Dr.frog (talk) 05:34, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: You wrote ". . . I believe any mention of a gay-bashing hate crime would lead most readers to jump (unfairly) to the unspoken conclusion that Mr. Button is gay."  Your statement suggest biases that are leading you to edit the article in a manner that makes it less accurate by leaving out widely discussed and reported facts (the gay bashing background to the attacks).  The Wikipedia article as it stands does not state that Dick Button is gay.  Your statement suggests bias on the subject of gay people due to your use of the words "jump (unfairly) to the unspoken conclusion that Mr. Button is gay."  Using "(unfairly)" is a strong indication that you are biased, as "unfairly" has negative connotations, i.e., Dick Button could be gay, straight, bisexual or asexual, but you are apparently making a value judgment that it would be bad if Dick Button is gay and that it would be good if Dick Button is straight, bisexual or asexual.  --Rentir (talk) 05:21, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Your comments above unfortunately make it appear that you are not following WP:NPOV and WP:BIO.  You wrote ". . . I believe any mention of a gay-bashing hate crime would lead most readers to jump (unfairly) to the unspoken conclusion that Mr. Button is gay."  Practically all (if not all) news accounts of the attacks are very clear in stating the attacks were intended against gay people.  The police, court system, and at least one defense attorney for the attackers all said the attacks were a deliberate attempt to attack people the attackers thought were gay.  Nowhere in the article does it say that Mr. Button is gay; the article says the attackers knew nothing about Mr. Button's sexuality and that the victims of the attacks targeted at random simply because they were in an area of Central Park where the attackers believed gay people congregated.  There is no reason for the article to ignore the several news accounts that highlight that the attackers intended to attack gay people.  --Rentir (talk) 14:31, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

text: I have read at least some of the original articles, although it was many years ago now, so my memory may be rusty.  There is also a second, more detailed summary of the entire sequence of articles posted by another person here, with a direct quote from the July 8 article that Button was "jogging through the park and stopped to watch the fireworks."  It seemed to me that the different NYT articles were a little muddled on what Button was doing in the park (and perhaps Button himself was muddled about it afterwards, given the nature of his injury), but the jogging comes up repeatedly, at least.  Dr.frog (talk) 08:06, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Gay bashing reference

message: The first three links given in the "External links" section (ABC Sports biography of Dick Button; Dick Button's U.S. Olympic Team bio; and Olympic.org Video: Dick Button lands the first double axel) don't work. Worse, the first two of those are extensively used as sources for the article, being cited a total of 11 times. Krakatoa (talk) 05:20, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: This article is full of dead links!

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070905174119/http://www.worldskatingmuseum.org/Museum_HOF_Inductees.htm to http://www.worldskatingmuseum.org/Museum_HOF_Inductees.htm
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thread_title:  External links modified