Talk:Chav/Archive 2

message: The old Charva article cropped up via anon edits to the (defunct) redirect Charver, there is now (finally) a discussion open about what to do about it at Talk:Charver#Why_the_constant_reverts.3F. -- Jon Dowland 13:09, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Charva]], [[Charver]], etc. 

message: I just added Ned as the consensus here was to do so, SqueakBox 18:34, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Strongly support Piecraft on this one, and a careful reading of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ned (Scottish) suggests there is no support for this merge at all. I can see no concensus for such a merge. To suggest that Ned is a derivative of, or synonym for, chav is incorrect. Ned 'culture' is distinct and has existed for considerably longer than chav 'culture'. This merge should be undone, and the Ned article maintained separately. It should probably be renamed as well, but that's a side issue for the Ned talk page. After all, this article isn't titled Chav (English). --Cactus.man>Reply 08:33, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with the above, the merge should be undone pending a proper concensus. --Meiers Twins 09:29, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

text: it has been undone, SqueakBox 16:50, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Ned

message: *Merge doesn't mean cut and paste into the middle of the article. 
*The new text is nowhere near NPOV. It gives a different etymology and has awful expressions such as "low morals". 
If you have to incorporate could you make it into a proper article and take all the prejudice out? Secretlondon 14:27, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I suggest you study Wikipedia:NPOV - "Wikipedia policy is that all articles should be written from a neutral point of view, representing all views with significant support fairly and without bias. According to Wikipedia founder Jimbo Wales, NPOV is "absolute and non-negotiable".". What is ever so witty to you and your school friends looks frankly embarassing in an international encyclopedia. Secretlondon 17:37, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Charva article

message: Do we really need two pictures of Devvo from fat-pie.com? ZephyrAnycon 23:37, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Devvo

message: Well, I've attempted to bring some sense of order to this article, which was messy and unencyclopedic. I've left a blank section entitiled 'development of the stereotype'. This could be filled with much of the interesting stuff from the 'charver' section that described how such a social group may have formed. Unfortunately, it had been written in an exptremely subjective manner. Robdurbar 16:35, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: We don't do speculation or crystal ball watching.Secretlondon 14:59, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Re-Write

message: The word Charva is purely aword from the North East of England, not related to the media term Chav (other than the term having a very similar meaning) certainly if terms such as NED and Scally are going to have their own page, then the term Charva should also have its own page and not be copied and pasted into this page (I also think that the Charva page should expand on it seperate etymology, including the words former meaning as a synonym of terms such as 'mate' or 'buddy' as derived from the word 'char' meaning tea
Charver has already had its own article, which was deleted, it seems, as much because of the article's poor quality as of the simialrity of the terms. Although it is true that charva has a logner hsitory than chav, I think the terms are simialr enough to be one. Ned has survived a vote for deletion, probably due to the Scots being unable to accept the fact that they are the same as chavs/townies/sacllies/kevins or whatevers, becasue they see chav as an English term. Robdurbar 13:19, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Can we split Charva from this article? 

message: I read the whole article on Chavs but have not read all of the talk, so forgive me if I'm treading old ground here...but why is there no mention of the huge number of similarities between American Black culture and Chav culture?  Also with American hip-hop culture in general, regardless of race?  Maybe not many Americans have been involved in this article and these similarities have been glossed over or intentionally avoided for some reason.  This to me seems sloppy at best and possibly disingenuous.12.30.156.36 14:52, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Mentions of African-American Culture?

message: I've removed the link to the German wiki "Prolet", which is not the same as "Chav" and bears no meantion to anything occuring outside Germany. --24.31.29.171 10:54, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair enough, but a "Proll" is the next best thing to a "chav", which, since "chav" is something particularly British, is the best that is to be expected from such a link.  As to the German article not mentioning anything outside of Germany, I don't see how that could detract from the German lemma. --Maikel 13:09, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  de:Prolet 

message: I seem to remember the correct orgin of the word 'Chav' was from the town Chavton in England. Am I wrong?--80.168.165.216 19:52, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The correct origin of Chav 

message: Cleared up the NED section, and added a link to the Ned_%28Scottish%29 article. And corrected the spelling of Scotland :) DavidMcKenzie 12:16, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Ned (Scottish)]]

message: *Chav vehicle modification (AFD discussion)
Uncle G 18:17, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Chav vehicle modification

message: Interesting that this term is viewed as a late 90s neologism. I can't provide OED standard written evidence, but can say that the term was in regular use locally in Leith, North Edinburgh, when we moved here in January 1996. We had lived in different parts of Scotland, and never heard the expression anywhere else. It was in common use in the local secondary school, and in the primary school, to define, not without some pride, those youngsters who might, typically, belong to gangs, or otherwise define themselves as anti-authoritarian. 
Some enquiries produced the (dubious) tale that the term had been in use for many years, and was drawn from a mispronunciation of French prisoners of war, known as Travailleurs.
Who knows?
Colinbrown855@btinternet.com
86.135.231.230 22:16, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chav - a view from Leith 

message: I'm not very up on my British slang, but would the young males described in Kubrick's A Clockwork Orange meet the Chav definition? Certainly Kubrick's work came long before the actual word came into usage, but it's the only image of Chav that I can possibly imagine.
:Fairly close I think, but in a more modern setting. Imagaine a British version of a wigger and your pretty close too, but there's no reason why chavs cant be black. Robdurbar 12:00, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Chavs are just the current urban poor - as seen from outside. Secretlondon 15:34, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chav- A Clockwork Orange? 

message: Some of the  stuff (and, indeed, other parts of the article) originate here. There's a discussion of that article's merits and demerits here.
chocolateboy 22:39, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But... I was hoping the article would explain what a "diskle" was. :-) MCB 22:48, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It'll be something someone made up in school one day. Secretlondon 16:47, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Citation Needed

message: I always thought that the Libertines reference to baseball caps in Time for Heroes was against people being more American, rather than chavs. Nevermind. --Nightfreak 23:34, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've removed it... for one thing the album pre-dates the rise of the chav phenonemon nationally - and its not explicitly about them Robdurbar 23:45, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The Libertines

message: Someone has put "Citation needed" against the entry that suggests a chav would say "fing" instead of "thing". Is the use of the word "fing" related to being uneducated, or is there another reason for its use? If the former, then it seems legitimate, although perhaps redundant. --Rebroad 21:23, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's accent - probably Estuary English. Secretlondon 13:13, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  I aint done nuffink 

message: Aren't chavs like gangstas, except that their white?
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Remixed (talk • contribs) 
no Drumnbach 03:20, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gangstas and chavs? 

message: At school i get verbal abuse from the chav's mainly comments about my hair been long but i replie "don't call any one your a chav" and they say "look at me do i look like a chav".
Its not right they build this stereotype over a year and because its faild they bin it lol but still stick with the style they created with the stereotype. They are now using the term "geek" the wrong way aswell i'm happy with my status as geek but when they called the retards in my IT room a geek it just offends me its so f**king insulting.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Davaku  (talk • contribs) 
AND GET GANG RAPED BY RABID MONKEYS FROM IPWICH (innit bruv - wot the fuck does that mean?!?!) T-W-A-T-S - yeah y'all can read that cant ya (surprising i know)
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.171.198.5 (talk • contribs) 
*Someone calls a chav a chav"
"I ay no chav"
Joe Mariachi 18:35, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: chav's now deny there status

message: The artical reads:
"Chav is a slang term which has been in wide use throughout the United Kingdom since 2004"
Have we got proof it's been used only since 2004? I'm sure I'd heard it plenty of times before then.
Joe Mariachi 18:37, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think this is more a case of requiring evidence for earlier use; I prefer the wording 'since the early 2000s', which im sure it had previously. Robdurbar 17:09, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Wikipedia articles include material on the basis of verifiability, not truth.
chocolateboy 17:57, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

text: The earliest mentions on Google Groups I've found are from 1998:
*"I was born in Brompton so am I a Chav or what?" 
*"me and My Lot don't generally fit into the chav image" 
*"we call them that too, but chav is the actual definition of 'em. :)" 
Note that the last two were written by the same guy. BillyH 19:26, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chav origin date 

message: I have added the cleanup tag because of horrific sections of grammar and spelling, in particular the Commercial Impact section which I have attempted to rewrite. --^pirate 16:58, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: except for that section - which had been added under 24 hours previously and which you cleaned up - the tag is completely unwarrented, so I've removed it. Robdurbar 22:42, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Cleanup

message: When first someone (at my school) used the term 'chav', I was lost as to what they meant.  Many may say that the term is understood by everyone, but I am still a little unsure of the meaning despite the informative wikipedia article.  I am a bit surprised, considering this, that 'chav' is recognised as part of the English language.  Does it really merit recognition as a word when it is more of a slang expression than the (cited) substitution of 'fink' for 'think'?  CMIIW 21:18, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well I guess the difference is that 'chav' describes something unique but 'fink' is an attempt at representing a mis-pronunciation. Robdurbar 08:00, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: I was lost

message: I was wondering about Cassandra's comment about Rose Tyler being a chav in the New Earth episode of Doctor Who, as I am not sure what to make of it. In my opinion the joke was on Cassandra being a snob for thinking Rose (who is working class, but does not protray some of the more negative aspects of "chav-ish-ness" like the so called "yobbish" attitude) was a chav. GracieLizzie 20:49, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think this was more likely an in-joke aimed at Billie Piper on the grounds that she was (considered to be) a trashy, chav pop-star before she was Rose Tyler. A lot of people objected to her playing Rose on the grounds that they didn't like Billie (and, to be frank, anyone who's been forced to listen to 'Because We Want To' has a point!), so I think a big part of it must have been tongue-in-cheek self-deprecation on her part in order to help endear her to more of the critical fans. Kantiandream 14:42, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cassandra's comment on Doctor Who