Talk:Jeph Loeb

message: While watching Lost (TV series), I've noticed Jeph's name in the credits for the last few weeks, but I haven't been able to catch what he's doing on the show, exactly. I'd assume this information would be useful in Wiki; next time I catch it, I'll update, if someone hasn't beaten me to it. --Ridingthebomb 20:34, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Lost Credits

message: "As of September 1, 2005, Loeb began an exclusive contract with Marvel. His first series was Volume 3 of The Ultimates, with Joe Madureira on art."
Has volume three come out yet? (october 2006) In either case, it makes it sound like that series was published near to the quoted date, which is incorrect.
I deleted that because it was grossly inaccurate. His Ultimates work has not been published yet making the statement invalid. I probably should have changed it to "Will be doing . . . etc" but I didn't. My bad. Rayner23 02:18, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ultimates vol 3  

message: The infobox under his picture says 5 Wizard awards, but the text indicates 4 nominations with no wins.  The wizard awards page isn't very informative since it doesn't seem to know who won about half the time.  Anyone have a clue what's what?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bsteger (talk • contribs) 01:38, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wizard awards 

message: This article has several citations, so I'm upgrading it from Unreferenced to Refimprove.  --Sloop Jon (talk) 06:03, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  upgrading from Unreferenced to Refimprove 

message: How was Loeb able to write an arc of Dark Horse's Buffy if he signed an exclusive deal with Marvel in September 2005. Did the contract end? If so, when? Did they allow a special case? If so, why? I am terrible at trying to find stuff out about the legalities of comic book writers and their projected runs on books etc. Tony2Times (talk) 17:02, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps he had that series grandfathered into the contract when he signed it. Peter David made the same arrangement when he went exclusive with Marvel so that he could write the Spike comic that he did, and so that he could continue writing his creator-owned series, Fallen Angel. Nightscream (talk) 18:45, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Marvel Exclusivity

message: The section I wrote was edited to fit into wiki standards but one thing I contributed which is more factual i keep on changing back but it gets changed again. Its the part where it says "completed writing the third volume finale" Heroes is created in volumes and this season, the third season, has 2 volumes. Volume 3: Villains which is what is on now and then Volume 4: Fugitives which i what is going to be on after the december/january break. so please stop changing it because what i actually put in is more factual than writing "season"99.225.126.41 (talk) 05:35, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: What you're talking about is a question of terminology, not a question of factualness, and I addressed this in my last Edit Summary. The fact that the show uses the word "volume" instead of "season" is simply an aspect of its comic book motif. It isn't "made" in volumes, that's simply the language it uses. This does not mean, however, that a well-written encyclopedia has to use that term. For one thing, Wikipedia:Manual of Style (writing about fiction) requires that when we write about fiction, we do so in an out-universe manner, not an in-universe manner. This is because an encyclopedia has to be a general interest reference source for all readers, including those not acquainted with the topic. We cannot assume that every reader researching Jeph Loeb is a viewer of Heroes. Such people may read the passage and wonder what it means by "volume". "Are they talking about an episode? A story arc?" It is for this reason that writing an encyclopedia is writing and editing it in a third-person paraphrased manner, rather than in a style that could be perceived as fannish. Nightscream (talk) 17:17, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd have to agree with Nightscream. As a non-Heroes-watcher, I'd see "volume" and assume that it meant season. Nightscream also pointed out that fiction should be written out-of-universe as much as possible, and considering that no fictional aspects of the show are being discussed, I don't see the reason to delve "in(to) universe" when we don't have to. The term "volume" could even fall under WP:JARGON which is only familiar to fans of the show. Basically, using "volume" over "season" doesn't have any real pros (but a few cons) so it's only logical to avoid the term when it's so easy, IMO. —97198 (talk) 05:21, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

text: Thanks for pointing that out. However, again, the casual reader, especially one who isn't a viewer of Heroes, doesn't know this. Hell, I'm am a viewer of the show, and even I didn't know this. For clarity, it's best just to name the episode and the season in which it was produced, and not add technical jargon that only a few people would understand. Otherwise, it would violate WP:JARGON and WP:Fancruft. I'll remove the word "finale", though. Nightscream (talk) 00:31, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Heroes is made in volumes... 

message: Just wanted to point out that what it now says about Ultimates 3 implies that it was popluar. The previous 2 volumes (which weren't by Loeb) were immensly popular, and so advance orders of Ultimates 3 were high due to people's expectations. In fact it turned out to be one of the most fan hated series of 2008. If it were me I'd add "due to his grossly incompetent writing" but then of course we'd be biased in the other direction. It should also be mentioned that bad as Ultimates 3 is, it's the lead in to what's supposed to be the biggest event in the Ultimate universe's history ("Ultimatum") and therefore is required reading no matter how bad it is (it's supposedly the end of the Ultimate universe). And yes, Loeb is writing both Ultimatum and the eventual Ultimates 4 (hey I thought there'd be no Ultimate universe after Ultimatum? :), but apparently someone else is writing a book called "Ultimate Avengers".
Ok that got a bit long winded...basically I'm saying using advance order sales figures for the first 2 issues of Ultimates 3 to say it was popular is Marvel's lie. Wikipedia should be above such misleading statements. I leave the decision of changing the page up to the regulars here.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.68.230.60 (talk) 03:23, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Ultimates 3 section not very unbiased.

message: Hi all, I've reworded 'let go' to say 'left' because I think it's accurate on the fundamental point without speculating or focusing unnecessarily on the mechanics of how Loeb left the show.. happy to chat :-) Privatemusings (talk) 03:02, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Specifying the firing is not "speculation", since that information is specifically sourced. And waiting until some type of consensus was reached before editing the passage (which is what I intended by starting this discussion) would've been more appropriate. Nightscream (talk) 06:00, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: it's just the 'B' bit of WP:BRD, scream - part of the wiki process I think works quite well :-) (it's all about getting a better article, right :-) - I'm afraid I just don't really think 'let go' sets the right tone - I think 'left' is much better..... 'let go' may well be sourced well etc. but I think we can do better in terms of language. happy to chat about it... best, Privatemusings (talk) 21:27, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Given events since I began this discussion, I'll "let it go" myself. Thanks. :-) Nightscream (talk) 06:40, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: not sure what events they might've been, scream - but I hope you're good :-) - I continue to think that we can do better than 'let go' here, and will likely pop 'left' back tomorrow barring further input here :-) Privatemusings (talk) 02:58, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

text: Just one thought, but as the quote starts "As of today, Jesse Alexander and I have left Heroes" perhaps we should let Loeb 'say' it for us rather than worry about the exact wording of the lead into it (especially as the exact wording could have some bearing on the question "did they jump or were they pushed?"). So something like "On November 2, 2008, Loeb and fellow Heroes Co-executive Producer, Jesse Alexander announced they were no longer working on the series" which leaves things neutral and leads into the quote. (Emperor (talk) 03:36, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You do realize, of course, that the original source, Variety, made it plain that they were fired, and that the second source (which is where the quote comes from) is based on the Variety source, right? Nightscream (talk) 19:55, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The quote is exclusive to the CBR piece though and, as I say goes to the "did they jump or were they pushed?" issue - the quote suggests they jumped. The Variety piece (a blog?) says they were fired but doesn't quote a source and that could just their spin. Again we should be careful about our wording as there seems to be different takes on this. For a fully balanced approach we'd need something directly from the production side of things. (Emperor (talk) 21:08, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

text: Is Loeb claiming that he was not fired or does Loeb agree with this but just doesn't want it in his article? From your comment on Jimbo's page it sounded more like the second. These are very different situations. JoshuaZ (talk) 22:39, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The latter, as indicated in the post right above yours. Nightscream (talk) 01:59, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ok, I wanted that confirmed explicitly. In that case it seems pretty clear that we should just tell it as it is. The fact that he got fired is acknowledged by him and is in a major reliable source. The data is relevant to understanding his career. We have no reason to hide very well-sourced information simply because it has some tiny chance of hurting his career. Moreover, given the nature of his industry I find it impossible to believe that anyone considering hiring him would not be already aware of this information or would look in Variety anyways. JoshuaZ (talk) 21:09, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

text: My view of it was in line with yours, Josh and Root, but I decided to defer to others after Loeb and another editor pressed for the opposite view. I will defer to whatever the consensus/majority decides. Nightscream (talk) 23:42, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ok. I thought we had a consensus on this but it looks like the article has now moved back over to "left" rather than "let go." Do we need to discuss this again or will anyone object if I restore it to the well-sourced statement per LA Times, Variety, NYT et. al. ? JoshuaZ (talk) 19:31, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Either is okay with me. Nightscream (talk) 20:33, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  let go vs. left 

message: In spite of the coverage of Loeb and Jesse Alexander leaving Heroes, I've seen at least two episodes of Volume 4 with their names in the opening credits as producers. Is this simply an obligatory credit, or did NBC ask them back? Radical AdZ (talk) 01:39, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd imagine it's the former. Nightscream (talk) 02:14, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Heroes Volume 4 Credits - WTF?

message: I added a "criticism and controversy" section, which currently discusses the extreme unpopularity of Ultimatum. I think it's important to include such a section, since the article as a whole otherwise gives no indication of how genuinely polarizing a figure Loeb is. At present, it is copy-pasted from the Ultimatum article because I did not want to be accused of adding anything improper myself. If anyone wishes to edit it to make it more appropriate to this article, that would be greatly appreciated. However, I would request that the section not be deleted without a detailed discussion here on the talk page. Thanks. CarolinianJeff (talk) 23:01, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Good work, Jeff! I edited it in order emphasize what the critics' said their specific problems were with the serious, in lieu of the direct quotes, which were mostly venom. (I also did the same at the Ultimatum article.) I also moved similar material from further up in the article, good and bad, to this new section, for relevance and balance. Thanks! Nightscream (talk) 01:21, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, Nightscream! I like what you did with incorporating the well-received books, and the change to "praise and criticism" as well. I took out the actual sales figures, since I think "#1 in sales" says enough (and people can always click the references for the actual numbers). On the whole, though, I think it's a great job... I think this section adds a lot to the article now. Thanks again! CarolinianJeff (talk) 00:45, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Great job.  I was just looking at the Ultimatum page to see how it wrapped up, since I wasn't about to continue reading that garbage.  I was coming here considering a section analyzing his work and reception thereof pre- and post his son's death (that seems to be a lynchpin in the seeming evaporation of quality in his work), but this is pretty classy way of showing it. 214.3.138.234 (talk) 12:59, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you. Just so you know, I've been inquiring at the Reliable Sources Noticeboard about some of these sources, since I wasn't sure about some of them, and given the responses, I think I'm going to remove the material attributed to a couple of them. And yeah, mentioning his son in relation to assessments of his work would hardly be in keeping with WP:NOR, or for the matter, human decency. Nightscream (talk) 00:04, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, it was partially in regards to actual interviews and reviews mentioning his short hiatus and how it affected his work since, but I couldn't find the video that was formerly on Marvel's website discussing his "time away from the job" (they never explicitly mention the cause), and how his work since that time and returning to Marvel has been considered of rather poor quality.  I wasn't saying make a section that says "he pretty much sucks since his son died," but more a reflection on the negative light he's viewed in since returning from his time away from comics, which was predicated by that unfortunate event. 214.3.138.234 (talk) 18:24, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Praise and Criticism

message: It was my understanding nothing beyond the first (zero) issue was actually published, but the article seems to imply the series was completed. Unless my information is outdated, I think the article should be rewritten to reflect this. He's done more significant things at Marvel than an aborted series. Argento Surfer (talk) 18:59, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Good call. Thanks. Nightscream (talk) 19:46, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Captain America: White 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: There's no public database from Disney that lists all of its current employee, but we have an internal database called Rostr (you're not able to access it unless you're a Disney employee). I could provide a screenshot, but I'd rather not post it here since anybody would be able to see, and Jeph's information would be made public. If you have a phone number/email I can send this to, I would be more than happy to.  
(153.7.235.1 (talk) 21:40, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: The information must be referenced by a reliable source. The most reliable source for a subject's employment is the employer itself. Please provide a reference from the employer for this change to be made. Regards,  Spintendo  02:06, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Request edit

message: Add the following at the end of his Early life section:
Jeph was an undergraduate brother of Zeta Beta Tau Fraternity's Delta Chapter at Columbia University. He is now an alumnus of the organization. Lewittzbt (talk) 13:58, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. He is included in List of Zeta Beta Tau members, with citation, so I migrated that info over to this article, and added some missing cite publication info too. Thanks, Lewittzbt. Nightscream (talk) 14:12, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Membership in Zeta Beta Tau