Talk:Timeline of space travel by nationality

message: Qertis just pointed out that Remek flew March 2, before  Jähn on August 26. Should we add month and day to all of these years in the list?
I don't know who flew first in each year. I didn't look for that when I made the list. There might be other mistakes like this. Rmhermen 13:22, Oct 20, 2003 (UTC)
Pavel Popovich was Ukrainian. He flew Vostok 4 in 1962 for the Soviet Union. Should he be listed as the first Ukrainian in space rather than Leonid Kadenjuk in 1997? Although, at the time of his flight, the Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union. Rusty 20:30, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it should be the nationality at time of launch.  Which means leaving it the way it is.  Except the first Russian should be listed, too. Jwolfe 20:40, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: You are probably correct. But does that also mean that Germany should get another listing separate from East and West Germany? Also, now that Czechoslovakia has become the Czech Republic and Slovakia, two more space travelers can be listed. This could get confusing. Rusty 21:58, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: old

message: Paul D. Scully-Power of Australia made his flight in 1984, after becoming a U.S. citizen in 1982. At that time, Australian law was such that actively applying for citizenship of another country automatically voided your Australian citizenship (this is no longer the case). So, technically speaking, he was not an Australian citizen when he lanuched. This is reflected by his patch on his spacesuit, showing a US rather than an Australian flag. This has not stopped the Australian media referring to him as an "Aussie". Commking June 2005
:Indeed, to date no Australian has gone into space as an Australian citizen sponsored by the Australian government – all "Australian" astronauts have been Australian-born American citizens possibly holding dual-Australian citizenship. Andy Thomas complains about this himself here. The Australian media regularly misrepresents the status of Australian-born astronauts to generate "local interest" for news stories --203.52.130.138 06:13, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: No Australians in space

message: Is it "by nationality" or "by country"? If former, then, say, chinese (and, as I believe ukrainians) have got to space muuuch earlier, being USA and USSR citisens.
If the Chinese guy is a US citizen, then his nationality is US. Nationality should not be confused with ethnicity.
If latter, article title is misleading.
:It means nationality, which country he/she was a citizen of at the time of the spaceflight. Rmhermen 00:22, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is it "by nationality" or "by country"? 

message: Would it make sense to add a section to the end for the dual-citizens, former citizens, and so forth, that people keep wanting to add?  It would get it out of the main list, but still acknowledge that such people exist.  I was thinking of just a bulleted list of text, such as:
* Shannon Lucid, first launched xxx, was born in China to American parents of European descent.
* Franklin Chang-Diaz, first launched xxx, was born in Costa Rica, but was an American cizizen when he first went into space.
* Paul D. Scully-Power, yadda, yadda, yadda.
* Piers Sellers, etc.
What do you all think?  Jwolfe 10:16, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably a good idea.  I don't know how many there will be though. Rmhermen 20:24, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Why don't we draft the list here until we have a reasonably complete list? I'll start. Jwolfe 20:50, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I copied over the section as we have it below, but I'm wondering if we shouldn't remove Lucid and Thomas since Wang and Scully-Power, respectively, got to space before them.  Any opinions?  Jwolfe 10:39, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We have had to remove Thomas from the now-main list more than once before, so I think they can stay. Rmhermen 16:57, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: With regards to this, how does the inclusion of Ansari (a dual Iranian-American citizen) change things? Is that precedent for putting dual-citizens back on? And if not, why not?Astrofreak92 (talk) 17:56, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

text: Follow-up: I see there was a note made about sponsoring nations in the case of dual-citizenship. So Ansari and other self-funded travelers are the only people eligible to have both citizenships counted? Is that correct?Astrofreak92 (talk) 18:00, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Ansari didn't change anything on the list. The only issue was whether she still had Iranian citizenship. Any first flyer is listed even if they are dual citizens - based on their citizenship at the time of the flight. Rmhermen (talk) 18:18, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I've read some indications that Andy Thomas regained Aussie dual-citizenship in 1997. Nothing definitive, and nothing I can cite, but if that were true, would that put him back on the list? A number of the other ambiguous cases might have also had active dual-citizenship, is that worth looking into?Astrofreak92 (talk) 18:56, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: That is why we created the section after the main list where all these cases are discussed. Are there any we missed? Rmhermen (talk) 19:21, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: On second look, I can't find any legitimate sources explicitly corroborating what I had seen. I was just prompted to look into it because the 1996 in spaceflight and STS-77 pages reference Thomas as Australian, and I'm still not sure if I should delete those references. What are your thoughts on that matter? Regardless, I'm looking forward to the first change on this list in 7 years on Wednesday.Astrofreak92 (talk) 19:40, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section for dual-citizens, former citizens, etc.? 

message: The above list uses the nationality at the time of launch, with preference given to the sponsoring nation in the cases of dual citizenship.  Lists with differing criteria might include the following astronauts:
* Paul D. Scully-Power, first launched October 5, 1984, was born in Australia, but was an American citizen when he went into space.
* Taylor Gun-Jin Wang, first launched April 29, 1985, was born in China to Chinese parents, but was an American citizen when he went into space.
* Shannon Lucid, first launched June 17, 1985, was born in China to American parents of European descent, and was an American citizen when she first went into space.
* Franklin Chang-Diaz, first launched January 12, 1986, was born in Costa Rica, but was an American cizizen when he went into space.
* Andy Thomas, first launched May 19, 1996, was born in Australia, but was an American citizen when he went into space.
* John Herrington, first launched November 23, 2002 is an American citizen and as a registered Chickasaw was the first Native American in space.
By Costa Rican law, Franklin Chang was STILL a Costa Rican citizen when he traveled to space, and should be considered as the first Costa Rican astronaut.--Japoniano (talk) 01:14, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other claims (proposed section) 

message: This article uses quite a lot of very non-standard flags, (ie. not of the "Flag of xyz.svg" type). I would replace them myself, but I'm not a flag expert and this article uses historical flags, (eg Romania), and I don't want to scre anything up. +Hexagon1 (talk) 14:12, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flags 

message: Unfortunately in the midst of all the changes, a vandal deleted part of the inline citation of a Reuters story on this topic. I fixed the vandalism as best I could. --Gerry Ashton 20:50, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism

message: I've made edits to explain the issue of East Germany / West Germany / Germany, as it seems many Wikipedia editors believe these are two or three different countries. 
Added also the mention of Lothar Sieber's tragic (confirmed!) flight in 1945, which would have not made him an astronaut even when he reached the ceiling of his "Natter", yet deserves to be mentioned. Also re-inserted the internet claims  surrounding the V-2 rocket, which has reached space unmanned, and could easily have carried the weight of a pilot/astronaut - without the help of aliens, btw, as User:Rmhermen claimed twice (now three times) in his total reverts of my edits. -- Matthead discuß!     O       16:44, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have reverted this yet again. East and West Germany are indisputably separate countries. And your own sources are the ones mentioning the aliens. This is non-encyclopedic unconfirmed "junk science". Rmhermen 21:33, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As you may have noticed, the article Early human rocket flight efforts was created, and "junk science" was moved there. Regarding German history, you reverted once again to a version that is clearly wrong, as the statement "East Germany and West Germany unified into Germany" is nonsense. See Exclusive mandate, all Germans, wherever they might have lived, were regarded as citizens of (West) Germany, no matter what the communist authorities in the East tried to establish, by building the Berlin wall and shooting at those who wanted to cross the Inner German border. As stated above, many Wiki editors need to brush up on their history of Germany, see also Talk:West Germany national football team.-- Matthead discuß!     O       22:44, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is not the page to attempt to change this - whatever your reasoning may be on the nationality. Try Talk:Germany and Wikipedia:WikiProject Germany. See how far you get then come back here. Rmhermen 23:51, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Except the link to Early human rocket flight efforts, you repeatedly decline to discuss my edits to sections, notes and flags/states, and simply revert to yourself. Have you ever heard of WP:OWN? I'll revert once again, but will put in the original East/West Germany designations for the time being. Besides, the links to between the refs/notes do not work.-- Matthead discuß!     O       00:11, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You seem to be violating WP:POINT and avoiding discussions yourself. You may not be the anonymous edit who keeps readding the East/West German thing, though. If not, accept my apologies. (I have asked for help in sorting out the reference links) Rmhermen 18:39, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

text: I have returned the list to its stated purpose and name. It has been discussed before that the name is ambiguous; however the place for that discussion is on that pages talk page not here. The use of "nationality" to indicate country or citizenship is common and state is just as ambiguous. In fact the nationality article that Matthead links to above lists his interpretation as an alternate usage near the bottom of the page. Space traveller was never intended as it opens another whole can of worms. Rmhermen 18:46, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Germans 

message: Sheikh Muszaphar Shukor, Malaysia's first astronaut, is expected to launch Oct. 10, 2007. Rmhermen 04:36, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: He;s up. Next should be Ko San of South Korea on April 8, 2008. Rmhermen 15:53, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it will be the back-up, Yi So-yeon. Hektor (talk) 14:13, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Upcoming firsts

message: it says that "Ilan Ramon was the first Israeli to go into space but he died during reentry. This was not a complete spaceflight under FAI rules", what are those "FAI rules" ? 83.130.167.190 (talk) 16:32, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: See the link to FAI Astronautic Records Commission - Sporting Code Section 8 (PDF) under Note 2 (which disputes Gagarin's record). The specific rules not followed by Ramon's trip involve the rule on "uncompleted flights...if an accident occurs during the flight resulting in the death of any member of the crew within 48 hours", and perhaps "pilot and crew of an aerospacecraft shall remain inside the vehicle during descent and landing". Note, though, that the FAI does not certify records of first spaceflights by nationality. Rmhermen (talk) 22:50, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: israeli astronaut in space

message: Could the sex of each person be given?
Kdammers (talk) 04:01, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I added a line to the intro. There are only three so it seems unneccessary to add a column to the table for it. Rmhermen (talk) 13:40, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Sex

message: This line was added at some point: "The first citizen of the Ukrainian SSR (according the Soviet constitution) to become cosmonaut was Georgi Beregovoi in 1968." However it conflicts with the earlier claim made for Pavel Popovich and I can't find any support for it. Did I miss something? Rmhermen (talk) 13:40, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Ukraine

message: Why Toronto included in this list? Can I delete it?Nilenbert (talk) 10:30, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it's not. Changes reverted. Rillian (talk) 13:52, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is Toronto a separate country? 

message: The footnotes for this article are "off" by one place. For example, the footnote listed for the United States is "3" but the information under footnote 3 refers to the Soviet Union.  The footnote for East and West Germany is "5" but the information under footnote 5 refers to Czechoslavakia.
Somehow, eveything got knocked out of its proper place.  Can someone fix this?  Thanks.
Mtminchi08 (talk) 06:30, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Footnotes need to be fixed 

message: The use of randomly selected images degrades the quality of this article, and / or the use individual editor's favorite Astronaut's image is not possible in this article, it violates WP:Neutrality (sucks), this article lists more than three dozen individuals and if all images were included in order to keep it Neutral (make it suck less), it would cause technical problems for some browsers and users with slow internet connections. The use of a limited number of images according to a logical or popular order is possible, such as first man and first woman in space, first person on the moon, and so forth.
A similar use of images occurs on two other project spaceflight pages, please see their talk pages here and here.
Please state if you want to keep or remove these images  Penyulap talk 14:01, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I restored the images which appear to be removed for POV reasons (all non-launching country astronauts remove, only Israeli astronaut removed) in an uncommented edit. I now see this comment here but do not agree with its reasoning. Neutrality does not require every image. See Featured Lists like List of areas in the United States National Park System. Rmhermen (talk) 04:39, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: There is still no logic to their inclusion however. What process are you suggesting for choice of images ? If there is no logic, I may as well include Ivan Ivanovic's image, why not ? Penyulap talk 11:12, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: The use of images in this article

message: A September Soyuz flight will include both Andreas Mogensen, the first Dane in space, as well as Aidyn Aimbetov, a Kazakh citizen flying for the Kazakh Space Agency. Mogensen will be included on this list for certain. Aimbetov will be the first Kazakh to fly for Kazakhstan's Space Agency, but, according to the icons on the pages for Talgat Musabayev's final spaceflight Soyuz TM-31/Soyuz TM-32, Musabayev was a Kazakh citizen when he flew on his final flight for the Russian Space Agency. He was definitely a Kazakh citizen by 2007, when he became head of Kazakhstan's Space Agency, but he was head of a Russian military academy in 2003 after he retired. I am inclined to believe he was a Russian citizen throughout his cosmonaut career, but I am unsure. 
First, should Musabayev's final flight be listed as the first Kazakh citizen in space, or should the Kazakh flag on the pages for his spaceflights be removed? Second, if Musabayev is deemed not to be the first Kazakhstani astronaut, and Aimbetov is listed on this page after September, should something be done about the map graphic? Citizens of non-Russian SSRs flew in space during the Cold War, so I understand why the former USSR is highlighted currently, but the flight of a post-Soviet national complicates things. Should former SSRs who had citizens fly in space be highlighted separately from Russia? Should they not be highlighted at all, leaving only modern Russia and Kazakhstan highlighted? What is more important to readers, that the entire USSR contributed cosmonauts, or that only the modern Russia and Kazakhstan will have? Should a cold-war era Europe inset be included in the map to show the Soviet Union as one cosmonaut-launching country as well as Czechoslovakia and East and West Germany, in order to resolve all potential temporal issues at once, while the main map is altered to show current borders? This is important when the launch happens in September, and I think we need consensus here before the change is necessary.Astrofreak92 (talk) 20:42, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: We already have Toktar Aubakirov who went up a Soviet and came down a Kazakh mentioned in the other claims section. Rmhermen (talk) 03:11, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: That seems to be an error repeated on a couple Wikipedia articles. I will remove him as he was only in space in October 1991 and Kazakhstan independence is dated to December. Rmhermen (talk) 03:26, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: See, this is a very confusing topic! But I think it needs to be cleared up as much as possible.Astrofreak92 (talk) 13:17, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: According to this articlehttp://articles.latimes.com/2004/jun/20/news/adfg-space20, Talgat Musabayev was a Russian citizen during his space missions. Aidyn Aimbetov will thus be the first astronaut with an active Kazakh citizenship at the time of launch. I have removed Kazakh flags from all of Musabayev's mission pages, and this page will be updated to reflect Aimbetov as the first Kazakh citizen in space. I have tried to contact the owner of the original map to see if it can be edited, but to no avail. If there are any objections, please let me know now, otherwise I will treat this as settled. Astrofreak92 (talk) 01:26, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kazakhstan 

message: I have created a new map with current map boundaries to eliminate the confusion caused by using a Cold War-era map to reflect post-Cold War spaceflights. This has allowed me to show the spaceflights of Ukraine and Kazakhstan, and would allow the map to show spaceflights of citizens of nations that did not exist in 1991 (Estonia, Croatia, Slovenia, South Sudan, Yemen, etc.). In order to avoid confusion about the first Russian spaceflight being in 1961 vs 1991, I have made the countries all one color, but that can be changed if there is a consensus as to what we'd do about Russia.
However, this does leave some questions unanswered, namely what to do with Czechoslovakian astronauts and cosmonauts from non-Russian SSRs whose astronauts have not been to space since their nation became sovereign. The Czechoslovakian astronaut is now a Czech citizen, and many of the non-Russian cosmonauts reside in the now-sovereign SSRs. Should the Czech Republic and the home SSRs of those Cosmonauts be highlighted? Highlighted in a different color? Not highlighted? Or should the map revert to the Cold War boundaries?Astrofreak92 (talk) 16:59, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Map 

message: East Germany was still very much under Soviet occupation in the 70s, so why are they listed separately?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:405:4280:640:25F5:62B0:1F77:6F94 (talk) 23:51, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  USSR satellite states count as separate countries now? 

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