Talk:Sylheti Nagri

message: Hi all. I'm currently working with the British Library, and trying to find material in their digital collections which would work well to support Wikipedia articles.
They funded a digitisation project in 2006 which covered 103 texts in Sylheti Nagari (, ). I believe this is the same project covered in this existing external link, but it contains the page images rather than just the metadata. 
There's a great deal of repetition (twenty copies of Hālatunnabi, for example) but there's still quite a range of material both in manuscript and print. Hopefully this is of some use! Andrew Gray (talk) 14:43, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  103 digitised texts online 

message: === Wrong term "Nagari" ===
Even in other Shanskrit Language it is Nagari, in term of Sylheti Language, all researchers and authors used the term "Nagri". So please correct it. Rajputro.nagaland (talk) 16:06, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Do not make unilateral changes without WP:CONSENSUS. Check how Devanagari is also transliterated as Nagari, while its Hindi spelling is Nagri. English transliterations in Wikipedia uses an extra 'a' after consonants. Ram becomes Rama- Fylindfotberserk (talk) 16:21, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

text: , how are you and  related? ST47 (talk) 19:43, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

text: Stop making POV edits. Maintain STATUSQUO. Some facts that you obviously do not know:- 1) Everyone in India is not a Hindi speaker and 2)Sylheti speakers are native to India too. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 07:44, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

text: Have you checked WP:COMMONNAME policy? While Sylhoti Nagri has a large number of hits in Google, the English transliteration is "Sylheti", so it needs to be verified in reliable English sources. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 15:27, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

text: "Syloti" is a bit of a weird spelling. In Sylheti transliteration ꠍꠤꠟꠐꠤ should be Siloti with an I not a Y. UserNumber (talk) 17:16, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm... require more specialists in Eastern Scripts. , would you weigh in? - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 17:59, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

text:  I say keep it how it is. Other spellings are mentioned in the first sentence. The template infobox for any script has a section called Unicode alias for the equivalent. There is no need to change it as long as that is present. Syloti/Siloti Nagri is an endonym anyway.UserNumber (talk) 19:04, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

text: As I said, don't be in a hurry. Request RfC here. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 07:28, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

text: , can you help on this? - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 07:35, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Unicode said it was Syloti Nagri in 2005. However, I have found evidence from 1929 for the term Sylheti instead of Syloti here: https://eap.bl.uk/archive-file/EAP071-30-20#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=1&xywh=-1573%2C0%2C4661%2C2775 . Not only that, I have found evidence from the STAR website of them translating from Sylheti to English changing it from Siloti to Sylheti http://www.sylheti.org.uk/primer-and-songs UserNumber (talk) 12:49, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: By and large the WP:COMMONNAME (in English ofcourse) is Sylheti. All articles related is also named "Sylheti XYZ". We should stick to it IMO. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 16:30, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: The Sylheti spelling is often seen as a remnant of colonial times, and nowadays there's a tendency towards using a more accurate written representation for the name of the language and the script. I don't know how far it's gone, but looking at results in a web search, there doesn't appear to be a single spelling that's unambiguously more common than the others: I'm seeing 190 results for "sylheti nag(a)ri", 96 for "syloti nag(a)ri" and 105 for "siloti nag(a)ri". – Uanfala (talk) 16:52, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

text: That settles it then, the article name stays as Sylheti Nagri, :) UserNumber (talk) 17:15, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Given the absence of a common name, it's usually best to go for the name whose use is growing, or the one that's seen as more acceptable by the community of users of the script. "Sylheti" does not appear to be such a name. – Uanfala (talk) 17:21, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I am a member of the Sylheti community. This issue has been brought forward from 1 user from my understanding. That is not a community of users. UserNumber (talk) 18:20, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: , can you help on this? - UserNumber (talk) 20:43, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Honestly, I'm not really that familiar with the topic, but since there isn't an obvious consensus for "Syloti Nagri" yet, I'd argue to maintain the status quo for now. It doesn't seem appropriate to move the page just based on the assumption that the majority opinion will support it eventually. As per WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS, "Sylheti Nagri" being a colonialist spelling isn't really a factor.Alivardi (talk) 21:50, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Stop POV pushing like this, when we are discussing it here. That's disruptive. And do not embed external links in the article. Just to let you know, other Wikipedia articles can't be used to cite content in this article as per WP:UGC. The content in this article should be supported by stand-alone sources. Another, do not change Infobox name parameter, it should match with the article name. Unless we reach a WP:CONSENSUS here, these kinds of edits by you will be reverted to maintain WP:STATUSQUO, so don't do it. Pinging  for inputs. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 07:51, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Do not edit war like this. You are a new user, you should understand that this is an Team-based Encyclopedia and not a Forum. You cannot make changes unilaterally when others are objecting to it. This kind of behavior will get you blocked. If we reach a consensus to rename the page, that will be done in time. So no need to fret about it and absolutely no need to add embedded links and references from other Wikis which are considered unreliable as per WP:UGC. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 11:20, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

text: But I have a habit of correcting new learners in Wikipedia. I've pasted a list of 60 links on how Wikipedia works in your talk page. Go through them one by one and calm down. An article written originally with a certain name will be kept as such. We are at liberty of changing that after the new name passes WP:COMMONNAME and we reach a WP:CONSENSUS here. Creating new sections will not help it. And also different Wikipedia articles on same things can have different names as per WP:COMMONNAME. As an example, Allahabad haven't been changed to the new official name Prayagraj, but Prayag Kumbh Mela is named as such without Allabad, despite it happening in Allahabad. See this on how we reach consensus. If you want you can start an RfC here. And DO NOT attack Indians every time for these . It is more likely that the Sylheti articles were created by a Bangladeshi than an Indian. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 16:32, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: It is about Consensus. It is a Law in Wikipedia. You edit Wikipedia, you go by rules. Unicode is an obscure thing as far as general people are concerned, which has been covered in text in the article. The article name instead follows WP:COMMONNAME. Mainstream people know about news alright. Even the recent name changes of cities, districts in India, that got hyped in media, like Bangalore -> Bengaluru, Allahabad -> Prayagraj, Faizabad -> Ayodhya, were not accepted. See talkpage archives of Bangalore article, it went through multiple RfCs, it is still Bangalore even now. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 11:22, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

text: That was both funny and sad. User:SylhetiEditor was likely a good-faith editor, but was in too much hurry and displayed CIR issues. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 07:22, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Achieve WP:CONSENSUS. If you want. start a page move RfC. That'll solve your problem. Sockpuppetry will get you nowhere. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 12:16, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi @User:ST47, the sock-puppet has also been causing some trouble in the Bengali Wikipedia pages, could you lock those as well please e.g. bn:সিলেটি নাগরী UserNumber (talk) 15:31, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

text: It was Sylheti Nagri, its just that disruptive editors keep changing it. Will change them all to match the title now.UserNumber (talk) 15:08, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: The Rajputro of Nagaland chronicle

message: Even in other Shanskrit Language it is Nagari, in term of Sylheti Language, all researchers and authors used the term "Nagri". So please correct it. Rajputro.nagaland (talk) 16:06, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong term "Nagari" 

message: "Nagari" is a foreign word in the context of Sylheti Language. We are not fimiliar with the word. Nor other researcher. 
English to Hindi or other language 
Something belongs to a City = Nagari
English to Bengali 
Something belongs to a City = Nogori, Shohure
English to Sylheti 
Something belongs to a City = Nagri
In modern history, Unicode, STAR, Syloti Grammar, Atlas of Endangered Alphabets, all mentioned above used "Syloti Nagri". SylhetiEditor (talk) 14:24, 13 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Do not make unilateral changes without WP:CONSENSUS. Check how Devanagari is also transliterated as Nagari, while its Hindi spelling is Nagri. English transliterations in Wikipedia uses an extra 'a' after consonants. Ram becomes Rama- Fylindfotberserk (talk) 16:21, 13 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suspicious Activity / Misleading name 

message: Hi Everyone,
User Fylindfotberserk, translating all names to Hindi. Even Nagri Chattar is an official name of Nagri Square and this user is translating it to Hindi, he is from India and behaviour is suspicious. SylhetiEditor (talk) 19:24, 13 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: , how are you and  related? ST47 (talk) 19:43, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

text: Stop making POV edits. Maintain STATUSQUO. Some facts that you obviously do not know:- 1) Everyone in India is not a Hindi speaker and 2)Sylheti speakers are native to India too. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 07:44, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  User Fylindfotberserk, translating all names to Hindi. 

message: Sylheti Research And Translation prepared the paper based on research. Correct transliteration is already made. It is not necessary to make it Nagari like Devnagari. SylhetiEditor (talk) 13:49, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unicode: Devanagari & Syloti Nagri 

message: Hi All,
Syloti Nagri page is redirecting to this page. 
For following reasons I want to propose to rename to Syloti Nagri keeping all content as it is.
1. Official Unicode name is Syloti Nagri.
2. STAR Sylheti Research and Translation, proposal for Unicode Documentation also mentioned Language as Sylheti, Writing System as Syloti Nagri.
3. Google is using the same name Syloti Nagri for Sylheti writing system.
4. "Sylheti" was transliterated in British era from Bengali word সিলেটি, not from Sylheti word Syloti "ꠍꠤꠟꠐꠤ".
5. Researchers of Sylheti Language, now transliterate "ꠍꠤꠟꠐꠤ ꠘꠣꠉꠞꠤ" as Syloti Nagri.
6. All of our Syloti Nagri apps developed after this name.
7. Finally Sylheti People call it ꠍꠤꠟꠐꠤ ꠘꠣꠉꠞꠤ Syloti Nagri. So here in writing system there is no point to call it half English "Sylheti" and half in Sylheti as "ꠘꠣꠉꠞꠤ/Nagri".
In regards to the page name of ꠍꠤꠟꠐꠤ ꠘꠣꠉꠞꠤ, proposing it to Syloti Nagri. Keeping other names and explanation in description as it is. SylhetiEditor (talk) 12:51, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Have you checked WP:COMMONNAME policy? While Sylhoti Nagri has a large number of hits in Google, the English transliteration is "Sylheti", so it needs to be verified in reliable English sources. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 15:27, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

text: "Syloti" is a bit of a weird spelling. In Sylheti transliteration ꠍꠤꠟꠐꠤ should be Siloti with an I not a Y. UserNumber (talk) 17:16, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm... require more specialists in Eastern Scripts. , would you weigh in? - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 17:59, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

text:  I say keep it how it is. Other spellings are mentioned in the first sentence. The template infobox for any script has a section called Unicode alias for the equivalent. There is no need to change it as long as that is present. Syloti/Siloti Nagri is an endonym anyway.UserNumber (talk) 19:04, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

text: As I said, don't be in a hurry. Request RfC here. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 07:28, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

text: , can you help on this? - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 07:35, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Unicode said it was Syloti Nagri in 2005. However, I have found evidence from 1929 for the term Sylheti instead of Syloti here: https://eap.bl.uk/archive-file/EAP071-30-20#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=1&xywh=-1573%2C0%2C4661%2C2775 . Not only that, I have found evidence from the STAR website of them translating from Sylheti to English changing it from Siloti to Sylheti http://www.sylheti.org.uk/primer-and-songs UserNumber (talk) 12:49, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: By and large the WP:COMMONNAME (in English ofcourse) is Sylheti. All articles related is also named "Sylheti XYZ". We should stick to it IMO. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 16:30, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: The Sylheti spelling is often seen as a remnant of colonial times, and nowadays there's a tendency towards using a more accurate written representation for the name of the language and the script. I don't know how far it's gone, but looking at results in a web search, there doesn't appear to be a single spelling that's unambiguously more common than the others: I'm seeing 190 results for "sylheti nag(a)ri", 96 for "syloti nag(a)ri" and 105 for "siloti nag(a)ri". – Uanfala (talk) 16:52, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

text: That settles it then, the article name stays as Sylheti Nagri, :) UserNumber (talk) 17:15, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Given the absence of a common name, it's usually best to go for the name whose use is growing, or the one that's seen as more acceptable by the community of users of the script. "Sylheti" does not appear to be such a name. – Uanfala (talk) 17:21, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I am a member of the Sylheti community. This issue has been brought forward from 1 user from my understanding. That is not a community of users. UserNumber (talk) 18:20, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: , can you help on this? - UserNumber (talk) 20:43, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Honestly, I'm not really that familiar with the topic, but since there isn't an obvious consensus for "Syloti Nagri" yet, I'd argue to maintain the status quo for now. It doesn't seem appropriate to move the page just based on the assumption that the majority opinion will support it eventually. As per WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS, "Sylheti Nagri" being a colonialist spelling isn't really a factor.Alivardi (talk) 21:50, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Stop POV pushing like this, when we are discussing it here. That's disruptive. And do not embed external links in the article. Just to let you know, other Wikipedia articles can't be used to cite content in this article as per WP:UGC. The content in this article should be supported by stand-alone sources. Another, do not change Infobox name parameter, it should match with the article name. Unless we reach a WP:CONSENSUS here, these kinds of edits by you will be reverted to maintain WP:STATUSQUO, so don't do it. Pinging  for inputs. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 07:51, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Do not edit war like this. You are a new user, you should understand that this is an Team-based Encyclopedia and not a Forum. You cannot make changes unilaterally when others are objecting to it. This kind of behavior will get you blocked. If we reach a consensus to rename the page, that will be done in time. So no need to fret about it and absolutely no need to add embedded links and references from other Wikis which are considered unreliable as per WP:UGC. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 11:20, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal to rename as "Syloti Nagri" 

message: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_15924 (Check inside Script Code section it is mentioned) 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syloti_Nagri_(Unicode_block)
Standard Language name: Sylheti 
Standard Sylheti Script: Syloti Nagri 
Sylheti Language in SN:
ꠍꠤꠟꠐꠤ IPA: Silôṭi
Sylheti script name in SN:
ꠍꠤꠟꠐꠤ ꠘꠣꠉꠞꠤ IPA: Silôṭi Nagri
Sylheti Language in Bengali: 
সিলেটি IPA: Sileṭi
Sylheti script name in Standard Bengali:
সিলেট নগরী বা সিলেট নগরীয় লিপি অথবা "qoutation mark" এর ভিতরে "নাগরি/ꠘꠣꠉꠞꠤ" লিখতে হবে
Incorrect Bengali অশুদ্ধ বাংলায়:
সিলেটি নাগরী
"হেজে কোরিয়া বুজানির পরেও বুঝলে বুঝপাতা না বুঝলে তেজপাতা" SylhetiEditor (talk) 11:49, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: But I have a habit of correcting new learners in Wikipedia. I've pasted a list of 60 links on how Wikipedia works in your talk page. Go through them one by one and calm down. An article written originally with a certain name will be kept as such. We are at liberty of changing that after the new name passes WP:COMMONNAME and we reach a WP:CONSENSUS here. Creating new sections will not help it. And also different Wikipedia articles on same things can have different names as per WP:COMMONNAME. As an example, Allahabad haven't been changed to the new official name Prayagraj, but Prayag Kumbh Mela is named as such without Allabad, despite it happening in Allahabad. See this on how we reach consensus. If you want you can start an RfC here. And DO NOT attack Indians every time for these . It is more likely that the Sylheti articles were created by a Bangladeshi than an Indian. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 16:32, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: It is about Consensus. It is a Law in Wikipedia. You edit Wikipedia, you go by rules. Unicode is an obscure thing as far as general people are concerned, which has been covered in text in the article. The article name instead follows WP:COMMONNAME. Mainstream people know about news alright. Even the recent name changes of cities, districts in India, that got hyped in media, like Bangalore -> Bengaluru, Allahabad -> Prayagraj, Faizabad -> Ayodhya, were not accepted. See talkpage archives of Bangalore article, it went through multiple RfCs, it is still Bangalore even now. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 11:22, 18 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Syloti Nagri & other Sylheti names. 

message: Barnstars awarded to User:Fylindfotberserk (see this revision) and User:Uanfala (see this revision) for their work.
: That was both funny and sad. User:SylhetiEditor was likely a good-faith editor, but was in too much hurry and displayed CIR issues. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 07:22, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Achieve WP:CONSENSUS. If you want. start a page move RfC. That'll solve your problem. Sockpuppetry will get you nowhere. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 12:16, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi @User:ST47, the sock-puppet has also been causing some trouble in the Bengali Wikipedia pages, could you lock those as well please e.g. bn:সিলেটি নাগরী UserNumber (talk) 15:31, 2 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Aftermath

message: The article still calls it "Sylethi Nagari" several times. I don't have the confidence to change the article but it seems strange that the article disagrees with the title about how it's called. --LonleyGhost (talk) 12:51, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: It was Sylheti Nagri, its just that disruptive editors keep changing it. Will change them all to match the title now.UserNumber (talk) 15:08, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Conflict between the article and the Title

message: all pre-2000 books call it "Sylhet Nagri" (this was the name used, not sylheti or syloti) not just "Dobhashi manuscripts". UserNumber (talk) 18:10, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rename article to Sylhet Nagri 

message: I check pages listed in :Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of :Sylheti Nagari's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "fischer2004":
From Devanagari: 
From Nagar Barap: 
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 20:36, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orphaned references in [[:Sylheti Nagari]] 

message: The IPA and note to that character don't seem to match up. The IPA column says /t̪/ but the note suggests /θ/. --LonleyGhost (talk) 12:46, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: No. As a native. I clarify that the pronunciation is similar to /t̪/ not /θ/. Sylheti has different pronunciation compared to other indo aryan languages. Smibzahee (talk) 12:49, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronounciation of ꠕ tho/t̪ɔ́ 

message: : Not done: requests for increases to the page protection level should be made at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection. Naypta ☺ | ✉ talk page | 14:05, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protect 

message: It is not the 'Sylheti dialect', but the Sylheti language, see Wiki page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylheti_language
Reference to the 'Bengali language' as being hierarchically superior to the 'Sylheti dialect' is bigoted. 
The script named after the language is was designed to write does not need to reference the Bangla/Bengali language in attempts to propogate cultural and political hegemony. Tuahtme (talk) 14:11, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: . P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 15:56, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 June 2020 

message: I want to add background color to the letters in the chart. Dubomanab (talk) 05:17, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Jack Frost (talk) 08:50, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 June 2020 

message: As per the Unicode Source  (page 4), Sylheti script is not derived from Bengali and Devnagari scripts. But the Banglapedia source contradicts that. Are we giving due weight to the unicode source? - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 11:21, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for putting that to my attention. Indeed it does not derive from Bengali or Devanagari nor Arabic, there is no evidence for this. It is however clearly a northern Indian script closely related to other Nagari scripts, of which the Unicode source mentioned Kaithi script is it's direct ancestor. Banglapedia is also not an academic source and whatever is written on there does not even have in-line citations. Wikipedia should not rely on other encyclopedias. Glennznl (talk) 12:12, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for your the input. I'd like to ping  as well. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 12:25, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  On this turn, I have to pass :) The only thing I can say that the topic seems controversial ("The exact origin of the Syloti Nagri script is unknown, and our opinions are therefore based on circumstantial evidence."—LLoyd-Willians et al., unicode.org). The Banglapedia article has sources at the end, but without attribution of the lead statement ("Sylheti Nagri, which dates back to the first decade of the fourteenth century, was derived from Bangla, arabic, Kaithi, and Devanagari") to one of these sources, I would prefer not to rest on this source alone (pretty muich like when using Ethnologue: it's good for a start, but then quickly proceed to better sources if available). Based on this uncertainty, I suggest not to put too much into the infobox, except for saying that it's a Brahmic script. –Austronesier (talk) 13:21, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Derived from