Talk:Twink (gay slang)/Archive 1

message: In respect of the history of this article, there is a discussion of its merits at Talk:Twink. Fibula 16:47, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: merits

message: In disambiguating the article 'Twink' there was the choice of moving this content to 'Twink (gay slang)' or to 'Twinkie (gay slang)'.  Little seemed to turn on the choice.  As 'Twink' was said to be an abbreviation for 'Twinkie', both part of gay slang, I chose to go with the root: 'Twinkie (gay slang)', which I think will be quickly found by anybody first visiting 'Twink'. Fibula 11:36, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: article name

message: As image:twink.jpg was due for deletion, I searched the verified images for an illustrative image. Another image has been used as a temporary measure until a verified representative image can be found. This image does however fairly accurately represent the definition of twink inside the gay community without being overly pornographic. Glowworm62 14:32, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: image

message: Roger Bart as a twink? Surely someone is jesting? (Roger Bart is listed as a twink in media) Tornberg 12:59, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Roger Bart 

message: I was pretty amazed to read the following in the article:
:Although the term can be derogatory and pejorative, implying shallowness and lack of intellect, it is rarely used in this manner.
For about the first decade after I came out, I never heard the term used in any other manner.  Remember the "ditzball twinkie" scene in Parting Glances?  In fact, at least among people I know, it's still commonly used in that manner. Doctor Whom 17:53, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This article really needs sources. I tried looking for some a while ago but there appears to be next to nothing on the web. -- Steel 18:07, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added links to two online dictionaries of gay slang, both of which contradict the assertion made in the article.  If no one else objects, I'll make the appropriate change. Doctor Whom 14:05, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I see that Natgoo has already made the change. Thanks. Doctor Whom 15:48, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Connotation

message: I don't think they qualify as twinks.  First, neither are officially gay.  Second, Andrew on Buffy was later seen in relationships with girls.  Third, I always thought Twink implied being attractive, like clean shaven well kept boy. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.63.204.130 (talk) 05:51, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Buffy/Highschool Musical 

message: This section isn't maintainable.  It's not even a finite list.  Do you know how many twinks there are in popular media?  If someone wants to create a page called List of Twinks Portrayed in the Media I say go for it, and then link to it from this page.  But it just doesn't belong as part of this article.  It would be acceptable to state a couple examples, though:  "Examples of twinks portrayed in the media include actor Randy Harrison and porn star Brent Corrigan"  So I propose deleting this section. Thoughts? -Bindingtheory 22:58, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nobody seems to have any objections, so I'm going to delete the section. -Bindingtheory 02:12, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Twinks portrayed in the media 

message: The explanation of origin of the term, while perhaps accurate, is really kind of sad.  It's such a dismissive term to use for a human being and it was a mistake to not delete this entry when it was proposed for deletion.
Look up "ho" in WP and and you get a (slang) disambiguation link for "whore" that goes straight to a major entry on prostitution.
Giving this word a life of its own in WP is just a shame to the community.  
We should be better than this. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.252.113.47 (talk) 09:14, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Who is "giving this word a life of its own in WP"?  We're here to give verifiable information on the ways in which the word is actually used, not to decide how or whether it ought to be used. Doctor Whom 12:35, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin 

message: There are two problems with this sentence: In some societies the term "chick" or "chicken" is preferred.   First is that chick is a USA slang word for a girl. Second, chicken is a USA gay slang word for an (usually) underage boy, either gay or straight. Although there may be some overlap between chicken and twink, the difference, I think, is primarily age related.  The definitions of twink I have seen or heard usually refer to a boy that is 18-22, or so.  In any case, both words need citations. I tagged the sentence with WP:Citation needed.  Becksguy 04:14, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added a ref to address this. Although presently those definitions might be true they certainly aren't universal nor have they always been. Chick and chicken have many meanings and has changed with no set rules on age which is generally true for twink. I think the article should be amended to reflect that but the article as is needs plenty of work so I'm not stressing on that for now. Benjiboi 10:33, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chick & Chicken vs. Twink 

message: There seems to be a problem with this sentence from the article: In some societies, Twink can also mean a younger gay male who has the support/partnership of a older gay male.  A young man (gay or not) who is financially, emotionally, or spiritually supported by an older man may, or may not, be a twink. Twink is a descriptive term related to a young man's age and looks, not to his relationship with someone older. Even if way more twinks get supported by older gay men because of their youth and looks, instead of for altruistic motives only. It almost sounds like twink is being suggested as another term for kept boy, and I question that meaning.  If that is a meaning in other cultures, spell it out please (what societies, where, when, etc.) and include a citation. WP:Citation.  Becksguy 05:02, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually I think it is used in that manner (e.g. My twink du jour) but not predominantly. Benjiboi 10:40, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

text: It's been fact tagged since July 2007 (by me), and I couldn't find references (except porn links), so I'm removing it after six months. Feel free to add back in with citations. Also removing reference in same paragraph to Twinking, as a on-line roleplaying gaming term, per article top DAB. — Becksguy (talk) 09:25, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Twink as mentored/supported by older man 

message: How can an article about twinkie bars completely fail to reference Twink (gay slang)? I guess the latter needs to cite a decent reference about the source of the term twink, but it's been around for twenty odd years surely?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.12.191.234 (talk) 06:47, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added to See also, I'm not sure it's worthy of much more mention than that at the moment. Benjiboi 01:38, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  GLBT culture references?? 

message: I do not know where the "inavariable" age range of early- to mid-twenties was dragged in from but it has little or nothing to do with reality (let alone with the improbability of finding glabrous individuials of that age. A short search has yielded evidence of use for much younger males (see this for example. Haiduc 02:41, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: FYI, dead link. Banjeboi 18:50, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  age range 

message: Wouldn't "butch twink" be a contradiction in terms?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.80.94.35 (talk) 02:48, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In theory but in gay culture butchness and appearances have their own value so being a more butch twink may have some currency. Benjiboi 10:40, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Butch twinks? 

message: *The Twink Code Version 1.12 (warning: explicit content; includes definition of "twink")
I've removed the links that were there as they aren't actually helping anything. The policy generally is that external links should confirm to what would be there if an article was a Featured article, or more precisely who aid our readers understanding of the subject if we had written the article to a featured article standard and those links don't. I've posted the one above as I simply don't believe the twink code is much in use at all and if anything could be a one-liner that it exists. Benjiboi 01:36, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links clean-up 

message: I've removed the See Alsos.  Most were already linked in the article, and a couple didn't seem to be directly related to this subject. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 15:30, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  See Alsos 

message: This is actually a dictionary definition, and it's already in Wictionary.  It probably shouldn't be in Wikipedia at all. See WP:DICTDEF. --John Nagle (talk) 06:56, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it's beyond dict def already and should be expanded with etymology and notable usages. Banjeboi 07:12, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

text: Also see WORDS and note that this is not just a word but also a concept. Banjeboi 07:16, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dictdef - already in Wictionary. 

message: :Note:photo has been replaced
I'm a gay man, but far from a twink. However, the photo shown to illustrate a "typical twink" is anything but. A true twink would have shaved his arms, underarms, and pubes.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.237.208.172 (talk) 04:05, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Not all twinks shave arms, underarms and pubes. Twink is a look based on age and related "young" look, not on amount/lack of hair. - ✰ALLSTAR✰ echo 04:46, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with Allstarecho on this, we should be a bit more universal. The text can certainly indicate that some twinks do shave all their hair or have very little hair but we can't say all twinks are ____ without a reference. If we have a good source stating this we would still have to contrast it with other sources stating that it's not an absolute. Benjiboi 22:24, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: While not all twinks will fit the description precisely, I have to say this current photo does not adequately represent what a twink is or how twink is described in this article.  The gentleman depicted in this image does not appear to be conventionally attractive.  He does appear slender but not fit.  Despite his ribs showing, the fat around his hips and nipples is fairly obvious. His face is obscured, which is a major part of showing youth or youthful appearance.  Other than that, the odd santa hat with the stars on it is distracting and inconsistent with the apparel of others in the background.  It is a weird looking picture, with a guy that may or may not be a twink, but certainly does not illustrate the term well.  This image should be kept until a more suitable one is found.--Biggayallison (talk) 08:08, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Describing this guy as fat around the hips and nipples is hilarious! --Nmcmurdo (talk) 00:01, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

text: A twink is basically someone t looks "illegal" but is legal. A guy of legal age who looks like a kid - to be frank. And the current picture is suitable for this. Further, it's a non-copyrighted image. A copyrighted image must have a fair use rationale for use in this article and it must be the subject of the article. - ✰ALLST☆R✰ echo 08:44, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Dear god.  The image has been removed - do you think someone would like to find out an image of them is being used without their permission to illustrate a gay slang term?  WP:BLP applies; do not restore it. Neıl <B>龱</B> 10:55, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: An IP reverted to reinclude the image, and has been hardblocked for a month. Don't push me on this. Neıl <B>龱</B> 10:17, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

text: Someone else reverted to include the image, despite it being very obvious from glancing at either the history or this talk page, or from having an ounce of common sense, that adding an image of a living person to any article on a potentially pejorative term, gay or otherwise, is wholly unacceptable. So they have been blocked for a month, too. Neıl <B>龱</B> 18:45, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I must say that seems way overboard not all users either look at the history or the talk page of articles. Simply reverting and explaining why an image violates WP:BLP - which isn't very clear - would seem to do the trick perhaps coupled with a warning. I would hope that blocks would be saved for those who then redid such an action as obviously causing disruption. Also there is some interpretation here as to who would consider the term pejorative as in some circles, including the gay male ones that subject seems to be a part of may consider it a compliment. I know people who are insulted to be mistaken for heterosexuals but I'm not sure that it would rise to the level of a BLP violation. Banjeboi 23:38, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

text: I've started a thread Wikipedia talk:Biographies of living persons#BLP needs clear images statements to get the ball rolling. Banjeboi 19:35, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

text: I can see both sides of this. under avoiding harm which aligns with BLP policy we should be at least sensitive that this is the world's encyclopedia. And the person pictured may not want to be known as the poster-child for all twinks. I've made similar points on using a photo of someone at homosexual transsexual, it's a term open to negative connotations so having someone reliably identified is better. I feel the same towards pretty much all articles. If the picture in question was from twink party then I could see it, if he was somehow readily identified as a twink, preferably by his choosing, I could also see it. But he may be some closeted kid or the straight boyfriend of someone there who may not want to represent all twinks whether or not he thought the term was negative in some way. I added the photo myself so obviously i thought it was a good match at first. Banjeboi 05:59, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  photo