Talk:Twelve Minor Prophets

message: Hi. I suggest that this article be moved to Twelve minor prophets, for several reasons:
*The actual title of the book is Trei Asar or The Twelve.
*The term "Minor prophet" itself has no meaning whatsoever outside the context of this collection of twelve small books.
*In English translaions, the bok is nerly always called "The Tweve Minor Prophets."
Redirects would of course remain from Minor prophet, Minorprophets, etc. Dovi 07:54, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I also think the page should be moved, dawg. However, since Twelve Minor Prophets is a name and is commonly capitalized, then should it not be moved to Twelve Minor Prophets or else Minor Prophets? --Eliyak T·C 04:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you are right: Twelve Minor Prophets, as the proper title of a book (perhaps ever with "The").Dovi 21:33, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I think this move is a good idea. The article is about the group of people rather than the subject of what a minor prophet is (which is something that may not even deserve its own article). Thus, as it is bout the Twelve Minor Prophets, it should be treated as a proper noun and have the proper title. Kari Hazzard (T | C) 22:11, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Relating to this, no-one seems to have done anything, but it this article is not about the people, it's about the books. Actually, I regard it as one book, and prefer to call it "The Twelve", but the collection is usually called "The Minor Prophets" in English. StAnselm 14:11, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds like a good idea to me.  I support Twelve Minor Prophets.  Nyttend 13:24, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So what happened? I see that "Twelve Minor Prophets" redirects here instead of the other way around -- why hasn't it been moved? Aristophanes68 (talk) 14:12, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Rename?

message: In the Hebrew Bible the writings of the minor prophets are counted as a single book, in Christian Bibles as twelve individual books.
In the JPS version of the Tanakh, each of the minor prophets is given his own book.  This is, I think, the principal version used in English.  Statements about what the "Jewish" version is on wikipedia seem almost always to be from an Orthodox POV. john k (talk) 23:08, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jewish division 

message: This entire section is indebted to the work referenced at the section's end (Coogan). There should be more footnotes in the section to make clear the extent of its indebtedness. Prinplup (talk) 01:09, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Citation in section Book of the Twelve

message: I have removed the following added book from the "Further Reading:
* Peels, H.G.L., & S.D. Snyman, The Leon Has Roared. Theological Themes in the Profetic Literature of the Old Testament, Eugene Oregon 2012.
It does not meet the criteria for "Further Reading" given in the WP:MOS under Wikipedia:Further reading, to whit: "A large part, if not all, of the work should be directly about the subject of the article." The subject of the article is The Twelve Minor Prophets, which is not the primary subject of the book. The book might be appropriate under an article covering more generally the subject of biblical prophecy.
Also, to answer a question from the editor who added the book, I have read portions of the book. I would also note that the book is edited by Peels and Snyman (they are not the authors), and that the title (as added) has at least three typos that should have been obvious. Nor do I understand why the first editor was linked to "Eric Peels", since that is not the primary editor's name. --EncycloPetey (talk) 12:45, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Leon has Roared 

message: For the ages of Joel, Obadiah and Jonah, the table says "disputed". I think that "disputed" is the wrong word; the ages of many books of the Bible are disputed for various reasons. But in this case, it's not so much a dispute, but there just isn't much information to begin with. So I think something like "uncertain" is a better word. Adpete (talk) 21:18, 24 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree. The article on the Book of Obadiah contains the word "disputed" but "uncertain" would apply equally well. The article on the Book of Joel lists several possibilities. The wording in the article on the Book of Jonah, "sometime between the late 5th to early 4th century BC" would fit well in this table. - BobKilcoyne (talk) 03:41, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Not so sure now - I looked a bit on Book of Jonah (and added a "Date" section), and that definitely qualifies as "disputed", because it purports to be about the historical Jonah of 2 Kings 14:25; so you've got this dispute where the traditionalists think it's 8th century BC while more critical scholars place it later. Perhaps Joel and Obadiah qualify more accurately as "uncertain", but my concern is I'm looking at it from a Protestant perspective (no date in the book, therefore date is uncertain) - but the Catholic, Orthodox or Jewish perspective might have a "traditional" date, so if Protestants ignore that traditional date it is still a dispute. So I'll need to research it more. In any case, there's no rush to change it. Adpete (talk) 22:07, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: OK I have looked at all of the books' articles, and quite a number are disputed. I think a better solution is to have the column say "Traditional date", and have no mention of dispute in that column: Jonah should be 8th century, and Joel and Obadiah should be "uncertain", unless these books have a "traditional" date which I am unaware of. Then, if someone wants to put in the time and effort, we could another column called something like "Generally accepted date", which can give the range of dates accepted by scholars, both traditional and critical. Adpete (talk) 22:59, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should table say "uncertain" rather than "disputed" ? 

message: I think the title "Twelve Minor Prophets" is a poor title, because I don't think anyone calls it/them that! The Jewish Bible calls it "The Twelve". Protestants call them "The Minor Prophets", and as far as I can tell, Catholic and Orthodox Christians also call them minor prophets. "Twelve Minor Prophets" seems to be a compromise name that is not appropriate to anyone. I suggest something like The Twelve (Hebrew Bible), because it is only in the Hebrew (Jewish) Bible that they are a distinct group. Adpete (talk) 03:30, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rename? (again)