Talk:Comic book death

message: Taken from one of the opening paragraphs "The phenomenon of comic book death is particularly common for superhero characters." Can someone please clarify this? Who else could comic book death happen to if not superheroes?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Setitup (talk • contribs) 02:52, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: There are a lot of non-superhero supporting characters in comics, e.g. Gwen Stacy, J. Jonah Jameson, Lois Lane, Alfred the Butler, etc, etc.  Best answer I can think of. -Markeer 00:31, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Some characters that are neither superheroes or appear at superheroe stories and experimented "comic book deaths" are Montgomery Burns, Sideshow Bob (from The Simpsons), Kif Kroker (from Futurama), Kes (from Star Trek: Voyager), Asajj Ventress (from Star Wars), Gandalf (from The Lord of the Rings), etc. Even Leonardo Sosa, from the telenovela Valientes, experimented a weird "comic book death" MBelgrano (talk) 01:11, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Isn't this obvious?

message: When was Cable presumed permanemtly dead?  Or the Hulk?  -Sean Curtin 01:51, Feb 27, 2005 (UTC)
:Not sure about Hulk, but Cable was presumed dead following the end of X-cutioner's Song when he apparently sacrificed himself to kill Stryfe. —Lowellian (talk) 05:34, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC)
::Re: Hulk
::Depends exactly how you define it - if you mean "by readers," probably never. If you mean in-continuity, he's been actually dead once (in the Myth Conceptions arc, Hulk #422-423, before Hela released him back to life), and believed obliterated by bombs twice (at the end of the Ground Zero arc, #345, with an issue devoted to characters' reactions before he reappeared incognito in #347, with a brief explaination later expanded into a full story in #351-352 [he got teleported to  Jarella's world by sorcerors who wanted his help], and at the end of #440, where he was missing for three full issues, and was intended to be "missing" longer - but Peter David was forced to bring him back when his plans were blown apart by the Onslaught crossover). - SoM 23:14, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Cable and Hulk

message: Has he ever returned? I know people keep messing with Batman's head by making it appear so, but is he actually alive? User:141.161.170.121
yes, he recently returned and is the new Red Hood. Elijya 16:45, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jason Todd 

message: Do you think it would be helpful to have another column in the first table with something like "Explanation" or "Mechanism for Resurrection"?  --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 18:24, May 24, 2005 (UTC)
:Sounds like a good idea to me.  Not everyone is going to know how characters return (and some articles may not provide that information).--Mitsukai 19:19, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: while being on the list is bad enough, I think giving the exact methods of their return would be a big spoiler. Also, very few situations could be explained simply, unless you just want to add "was never really dead in the first place", which is the explanation for most characters on the list. The explanations for the death and return of most characters should already be in their individual articles anyway. Elijya 16:49, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Explanation

message: House of M is going to ressurect Uncle Ben and Gwen Stacy (Gwen can be seen on the last page of House of M #1).
What will be done, since they've technically "returned"?
User:Toffile
:We wait until House of M is over. House of M, though technically in the same continuity, is in many ways essentially an alternate universe story. We wait until it is over and then, if any of those characters are actually still alive by the end of House of M, then we deal with it. —Lowellian (talk) 02:30, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)
::Alright. I just wanted to make sure.
::Toffile 14:21, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ok, they're clearly still dead, and that was an alternate reality, so we don't need to worry about it. However, Hawkeye was resurrected in House of M, which HAS carry over to the regular continuity, so that should be noted. I forget exactly what issue he was first seen in again, but I think it was #2, and I'll make that adjustment to the article. If anyone wants to correct me, go ahead. Elijya 16:56, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  House of M 

message: I can't believe he's not on the list. Someone help me compile a list of his deaths and resurrections. I think the first time he 'died' was in X-Factor #68, and I think he next reappeared somewhere in the X-Cutioner's Song. I didn't read his earlier appearences, though. Did he ever 'die' in earlier issues of X-Factor?. And then he died at the end of Search for Cyclops, right? and he's supposed to be coming back within the next couple of months, though we'll figure out the exact issue then. Can anybody help me with these specifics? Elijya 16:56, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Apocalypse 

message: I seem to recall seeing Ra's Al Hul alive in the Hush storyline in Batman. Can anyone back me up or provide dates about this?
Gallaghp 12:36, 16 December 2005 (GMT)
:He was. I believe he died in the Batman: Death and the Maidens miniseries Elijya 18:36, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ra's Al Ghul 

message: What about Batman's parents? Have they ever come back or are they dead since Detective #27? Ace-o-aces 15:52, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, technicly, no, they've never come back, but they've also never been seen in a current story, always in flashback. Batman's origin story (which would have been the first time they were mentioned) wasn't even told until awhile after Batman had his first appearence. So they've technicly only ever appeared in flashbacks, and thus never really died on-panel. Elijya 17:47, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Waynes 

message: Dare I ask if Jonah Hex belongs on  the dead list. He's dead in current continuity, but is alive in his own title which takes place in the past, and will be alive in the future thanks to time travel.....my head hurts Ace-o-aces 23:42, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm gonna go vote "no" on that, given the different time period. I think the list is really only supposed to display the mainstream, current timeline DC and Marvel universes. So no alternate realities or different time periods. Elijya 09:21, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hex 

message: I modified the Agatha Harkness part of the death/rebirth table due to the fact that it was revealed in the following issue of Marvel Knights - 4, that it was indeed not Harkness, but somebody masquerading as her. RevAladdinSane 02:45, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Agatha Harkness 

message: During X-Statix Presents: Deadgirl #1 Kraven the Hunter, Mysterio, Miss America (Marvel) and the Anarchist returned from the dead for 24 hours, and are expected to do so again. Should they be included on the list or is 24 hours not long enough? Iron Ghost 22:00, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I doubt it; seeing characters as ghosts/revenants/zombies/whatever means they're still technically dead, or if they are only temporarily alive, the reader knows that they will soon return to being dead (this is the sort of sentence one can only find when talking about comics). I'd say leave them off unless they come back without a time limit.  Noclevername 00:21, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  X-Statix Presents: Deadgirl  

message: Is on both lists for Marvel
Rkrgoat 20:02, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Dead -> Revived -> Dead again, it seems. The last time he stayed dead for 50 months, though, and it has only been 14 since his current death, so let's just wait and see for some time, if it needs to be changed again, shall we? 惑乱 分からん 17:59, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Red Skull 

message: Another X-Men one, but I'm not sure if it should be added to the list or not. During the Fall of the Mutants storyline, the entire X-Men team died to stop the Adversary. And were resurrected almost immediately. If I remember rightly, the team included Storm, Havok, Psylocke, Rogue and Wolverine, as well as two or three others. Madelyne Pryor was also along (and how many times has that woman died now?).
:TECHNICALLY, it might be a valid argument... but a case can be made that they were never DEAD, per se, as much as their souls and essences were sealed away with the Adversary (I don't recall Forge ever using the word "dead").  Though, in any case, even if they WERE dead, does being revived about 5 minutes later (in the same issue) count as being dead long enough?  Hossenfeffer 18:54, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Fall of the Mutants 

message: Would she count?  She not only died, but disappeared from continuity, and then came back.Bjones 17:05, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No.  The pre-Crisis Supergirl came back, but she was erased from history again in Many Happy Returns.  The current Supergirl is not pre-Crisis Supergirl, and Linda Danvers is MIA, not dead.DiegoTehMexican 23:06, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Supergirl? 

message: It seems like an entry on Optimus Prime would be a good addition -- he was killed in 'The Transformers: The Movie', only to be resurrected at the end of Season 3 of the cartoon due to fan pressure (I believe). It could go in the 'Outside comic books' section.
: I think the "outside comic books" section should just give a couple of examples; this article is about Comic Book deaths, after all. Otherwise that section will wind up bloating up bigger than the rest of the article, as everyone chimes in with more examples. (I've seen it happen. Trust me, it's not pretty.) Noclevername 00:26, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Optimus Prime 

message: I was sure the Kents died at some point during the Our Worlds At War storyline. Also, didn't the Ray die during Mageddon, then show up again in Young Justice? And I thought that at some point, possibly during Mark Waid's (admittedly long, so that doesn't really narrow things down) run on the Flash (no pun intended), didn't Wally essentially die and go to heaven, by being taken into the Speedforce? I might be able to verify the last one, but I'm not sure about the other two.
:The Kents didn't die, but Pa was MIA for awhile.  The Ray was injured, but not killed in the Maggeddon storyline.  And although Wally has repeatedly dodged in and out of the Speed Force, he has never actually died, to my knowledge.  Lokicarbis 05:24, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  the Kents, the Ray, Wally West 

message: Does Uncle Ben still count as being a ressurection? It was revealed that the Ben who's been appearing is an alternate reality version, and not the Ben Parker who originally died.
: I don't think alternate timeline versions of a character should count, otherwise no character would "really" die; the heroes would just zip off to a parallel world and grab his alternate counterpart. Noclevername 00:29, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uncle Ben 

message: Didn't he return as the red hood —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.27.113.213 (talk • contribs) 
:And he's listed. What's your point? CovenantD 00:33, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ooh! Snap! (Jason Todd no longer uses the name Red Hood. Now he goes by "Nightwing"). --Chris Griswold 01:47, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Jason Tood

message: Siryn, in the most recent issue of X-Factor (issue #7), was told by Cyclops that her father Banshee was dead.  She reacted very nonchalant, and brought up the fact that X-Men rarely die, or at least stay dead.  I would think this might be notable for the article as it's not a specifically satirical character/comic book satirizing the state of death in Marvel comics. Thoughts? --Newt 14:57, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Any idea where you would work it in? CovenantD 15:28, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ha, that I hadn't really thought about.  It seems like there would need to be more instances to merit a new heading.  I just thought it seemed notable in this case.  I see there are a few references to parody comics like Great Lakes Avengers and an issue of X-Statix, maybe there could be a "References in comics" section. --Newt 15:56, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Heh - I just added a reference to this (sort of) before reading the talk page.  I thought that the X-Men's black humor comment about Mutant Heaven not having pearly gates but revolving doors was particularly apropos.  Especially since it's been said by at least four different X-Men at various times in the books.  Hossenfeffer 19:18, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Siryn's reaction to Banshee's death 

message: I've been following the above discussions on how to address historical or mythological antecedents to comic book resurrection stories but haven't felt the need to comment before now.  However, I'm sorry to say that the "Resurrection as a Metaphor" section as it currently exists is a striking example of original research.  Certainly allusions to religious or mythological themes exist in fictionalized stories of all sorts, and certainly comic books are among those.  However, the section asserts a connection between specific stories and specific influences with no citation or evidence that such was the intention of the comics creators.  Yes, very probably Dan Jurgens intended an element of a christ allegory in the Death of Superman storyline.  But if that's the case where is the citation to an interview where he says as much?  Without that, the article is performing critical analysis instead of encyclopedic presentation of researched information.  The Inanna bullet most particularly assumes an intention on the part of a writer which may not have existed (really, do we think Bill Mantlo researched Sumerian mythology for Contest of Champions??).  Any section like this is going to teeter over the line of original research with the best of writing, but as it exists now it's glaring attempt to make a critical symmetry of the topic which most likely does not exist.  (Sorry to be a pain and bring this up as I know this section has been worked on a great deal, but I think it has to be said) -Markeer 12:56, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No need for apologies.  Like all wikipedia articles, Comic book death is a work in progress, and this one's got a lot of trouble with OR, I think.  The concept is more tacitly understood in the comic book community than overtly mentioned anywhere, so we see allusions to it in the X-Men's belief that there's a revolving door in mutant heaven, Siryn not accepting her father's death because she figures he'll be back like everybody else, and a very cynical belief among comic fans that nothing major ever sticks, but we never see it defined.  --Newt ΨΦ 13:18, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Resurrection as a Metaphor - Pushing the Bounds of Original Research 

message: At the end of Lucifer #75, Lucifer departs for the Void, with the intentions of never returning. Would this possibly count as a "death" per se (as in, should he be listed in the "deaths that haven't been comic-book-undone yet"? --Yar Kramer 17:45, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lucifer 

message: Characters that are still dead shouldn't be in the article; we've talked about trying to tighten the definition, so why do we have something muddies the waters further. This information is the opposite of what the article is supposed to be about. --Chris Griswold 18:19, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree 100%, and I've been confused why they are listed in this article at all.  I'd say be bold and remove them.  They undermine the entire point of this article. Markeer 03:17, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Er...I must be tired.  Took me a moment to realize the irony of passively telling someone else to be bold.  I've removed the section as it's clearly not part of the article topic. -Markeer 03:22, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That was pretty funny. Wikipedia funny, meaning I shouldn't bring it up in conversation. --Chris Griswold 07:07, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Characters that are still dead 

message: I didn't want all that work to go to waste, so I created List of dead comic book characters. It's just the list now, although I merged the Marvel and DC lists and created a separate space for cause of death. A also added some entries that were hidden in the code, but there are a few more in there. I am too tired to write an intro right now. Anyone?--Chris Griswold 08:36, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've thrown one on there, but while I attempted to demonstrate notability the article is teetering on the edge of listcruft (although I'd say it hasn't dived over the other side). Possibly notes about why these remain dead in place of cause of death (avoiding OR of course)? -Markeer 11:41, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of dead comic book characters 

message: Spider-Man has been in more comic book deaths than the one listed. While a lot of them are fairly insignificant, Kravens Last Hunt surely is prominent enough to warrent a mention. While he didn't actually die I think being shot and buried counts, doesn't it?
:Not really.  The character has to be verified as "dead" for the stipulation to work.  The death has to either be verified within the canon or implied Spider-man was never dead during the Last Hunt story, so it doesn't count.  King Zeal 18:30, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The story never indicated to readers that Spider-Man was dead. Doczilla 21:51, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spider-Man 

message: A couple of times in the last week I've removed passages that have added or altered versions of the catch phrase "Nobody in comics is dead except Uncle Ben (...and Bucky...and Jason Todd)" and wanted to explain and get input.  By a google search, there seem to be at least 3 versions of this phrase out there which is another way of saying none of them is really verifiable.  I've left the most inclusive version in the article for now, but if someone can find a good source for, well, ANY version of this phrase that we can cite, I think it would improve this article -Markeer 14:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, and so did Jason Todd, both of which are mentioned in that passage.  Since my comment above the Wall Street Journal used a citeable version of this quote so until or unless someone can footnote a different or better version we should keep it as is. As always wikipedia is based on what we can cite, not what we think is true. -Markeer 13:46, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Nobody in Comics is Dead Except... 

message: I noticed that the Joker is lister among the DC characters who have experiences "comic book death" with Batman #1 listed as the issue. I cannot say whether or not the Joker has ever experienced "comics book death", but he did not experience it in that issue. Though the joker was originally going to die in that, his first appearance, the ending was modified before the story's publication to explicitely show that the Joker had survived. Furthermore, the story where he "returns" is later in that same issue!--Heathcliff 12:11, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Joker does not experience "comic book Death in Batman #1

message: Does Dracula really belong here? Yes, technically, he fits, but it's inherent to the character's nature that he comes back from the dead. He's a vampire because he came back from the dead. In fact, he has been killed and brought back in Marvel Comics (never mind Universal and Hammer movies and every other medium that ever uses him) a lot more times than have been listed here. I do understand why those two deaths are listed as opposed to others. I was reading Tomb of Dracula even before Wolfman took over writing it. I'm just suggesting that he might not belong here any more than Mr. Immortal. His returns aren't revisionistic. By the time Wolfman and Colan killed Vlad at the end of the original Tomb of Dracula, they already knew they were going to bring him right back in another format. Doczilla 21:49, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We need to use common sense when talking about characters like Dracula or robots.  Dracula is "dead" when he's not walking and talking and the reader doesn't expect him to be doing so in the future.  The fact that all vampires are dead anyway is just a technicality; everyone knows what we mean when we say that Dracula has been killed off. Ken Arromdee 15:59, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The reader always expects Dracula to come back in the future. Doczilla 05:54, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes and no; after a superhero has been through a certain number of CBD's, it may be fair to say that the reader "always expects" them to come back, too (i.e., death of Superman; no one really thought he would stay dead). Marvel actually did try to "permanently" kill all vampire characters, and if later writers hadn't decided otherwise, the Marvel U would still be Dracless. Trying to read the readers mind or make assumptions about their expectations is probably outside the realm of an encyclopedia entry, anyway. --- Noclevername 13:47, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dracula? 

message: We can't list every time a character has appeared to be dead. That's not what this article is about. Surely those two Hulk deaths don't count. Besides, he has been mistakenly presumed dead more times than that. Doczilla 22:10, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hulk? 

message: A whole lot of this stuff involves POV regarding what fits the "comic book death" neologism. That's fine and fun, but the growing list runs the risk of getting trashed by some admin on an anti-OR mission. As long as issue numbers are cited, the comic books are their own reference. The list "outside comic books" could become endless and eventually get this whole article killed, gone the way of the Chuck Cunningham Syndrome article. Doczilla 05:50, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I suggest we remove the list of examples from the "outside comic book" section. They're OR, they invoke POV, and they can go on without end. And do any legitimate outside sources ever refer to those as comic book deaths? Doczilla 19:43, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I agree that much of this article is OR.  I do think it's a legitimate article, but the more I learn about Wikipedia, the less I see this article passing OR concerns.  --NewtΨΦ 20:37, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  OR and POV 

message: Is "Resurrection as a metaphor" really on topic with the rest of the article? --NewtΨΦ 20:39, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think so. Doczilla 20:46, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Well, Obviously I don't.  I still think it's simply funny to draw a parallel between Bill Mantlo's Contest of Champions and Sumerian myth.  I think the section should be removed in toto.  As a separate article it's clearly OR, in this article it distracts from the main topic. -Markeer 21:13, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Resurrection as a metaphor" 

message: Supergirl and Superman's parents didn't have comic book deaths in the written accounts. The Supergirl and the Kents who died were alterate versions. The current ones are different versions completely.
:Hmm, it's kind of iffy; the characters are essentially the same, only the continuity around them changed. This kind of in-story explanation/excuse for why they "didn't really die" sounds shaky to me. Does this mean that anytime a writer wants to bring back a bunch of dead characters, they can simply have yet another reboot and say that they were there all along? ---   Noclevername 13:54, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Point of clarity... Did you mean the first new Supergirl (Matrix), the second new Supergirl (Linda Danvers II) or the current new/old Supergirl (Kara Zor-El II)? --- Noclevername 14:03, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I wholeheartedly agree with the removal of all those examples. The never-ending list was likely to get this entire article deleted as OR. It also invoked a lot of POV. Doczilla 15:50, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree.  There are clear cut examples of a "comic book death".  Three good examples are Phoenix, Superman, and Colossus.  The really problem lies with the question of what constitutes "death", which is a point we've attempted to address over at Talk:List of dead comic book characters.  King Zeal 17:08, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: How are these "clear cut" examples?  What criteria do their returns meet?  More importantly, do you have reputable sources claiming these as examples since we can't make that sort of judgment call? Do we need to institute lists or can we just mention them as examples in the body of the text?  The lists as I saw them were flypaper for POV, OR, and unverified claims.    --PsyphicsΨΦ 17:36, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Superman's physical death was the basis of an entire company-wide event ("The Death of Superman") and, in subsequent stories, he has been referred to as having been "dead" several times. (Batman:  "The last time you inspired anyone was when you were dead."--Infinite Crisis #1)  Phoenix was killed off in a past X-men story and was intended to remain dead, but was subsequently resurrected due to an editorial decison (see the Comic Book Death article for details).  In addition, the current storyarc in Astonishing X-Men is based almost entirely around the death and subsequent revival of Colossus.  With the possible exception of Phoenix (who was revealed to have "not died"), these are clear cut, at least in the sense that their deaths are referenced within story continuity. There are other examples as well, but these are by far amongst the most well-known. King Zeal 18:37, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The idea behind "comic book death", we can agree (right?), is not the death itself, but the subsequent return, and the circumstances surrounding said return that make the death of the comic book variety.  I mean, if we count all death and return in comic books, this article would be nothing more than an example of Resurrection that doesn't probably merit its own article.   What we need are sourced criticisms (because that's what the phrase "comic book death" is) calling a death in a comic book a "comic book death."  We, as editors, cannot make that call ourselves.  Read WP:V and WP:NOR, both of which undercut our abilities to do so.  As for Superman and Phoenix, both of these are already mentioned in the article body.  As for Colossus, the article states "Since the Dark Phoenix Saga, comic book deaths have been particularly common in X-Men-related series."  We could talk further about Colossus, but it's not exactly necessary.  Can you give a reason why the article needed those huge, unexplained, unsourced, POV lists?  --PsyphicsΨΦ 19:43, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The main credit I can give your argument is that it IS rather subjective what is called a "Comic book death".  A large number of the list entries, however, are NOT POV.  For one thing, the actual issues containing said deaths and resurrections are included within the article.  I see NO subjectivity, POV, or OR where a character is specifically STATED to be dead and has been resurrected from said death.  Again, this would include characters such as Green Arrow, Hal Jordan, Donna Troy, Wonder Woman, and Jason Todd.  However, to that I would say that this would mean that the article would, at most, require massive cleanup.  Though I personally think it's fine as it is, to remove further subjectivity, it's possible to remove the instances of characters who weren't actually STATED to be dead.  (Such as Green Goblin, whose death was retconned to state that he was apparently "healed" before he could die.)  At worst, I say we could reduce the entire article into a category.  King Zeal 22:00, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is not the death, nor even the return that is in question here.  I will allow that many, if not all of the deaths were cited, as were the returns.  All of the characters could have been stated to have definitively died, then definitively returned in the primary source.  However, the primary source would not have called the death a "comic book death".  The phrase is pejorative, it is POV in and of itself.  It is a criticism, and primary sources are rarely self-referential enough to comment on their devices.  I'm not arguing whether characters died, I'm arguing whether those deaths would be considered comic book deaths.  We are not allowed, as editors, to criticize, only to report others' criticisms.  Therefore, the citations would be needed calling each death a comic book death, or else it is at best unverified original research, or at worst POV.  Unless some reputable/reliable source refers to a death as a "comic book death" regardless of how cheap it is, it is just an ordinary, non-notable death to us as Wikipedia editors.  I think this article has much more merit as a description of a phenomenon than as a category. If you'd like to create a List of comic book characters that have returned from the dead, feel free, or maybe just modify List of dead comic book characters to include when the character returned.  --PsyphicsΨΦ 23:29, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So do you feel that changing the name of the article to "Resurrected Comic Book Characters" would fix the POV?  King Zeal 15:37, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, I think the article is fine about "comic book death," I just don't believe that the lists need to be in them because they are POV.  If you want to create a List of resurrected comic book characters feel free, but leave this article as just about the phenomenon of "comic book death."  It's a POV description, but an article about a POV description is fine (see Islamofascism, Neoconservativism, etc).  It's when you start applying that POV description, unsourced, to numerous possible instances that it becomes a problem. --PsyphicsΨΦ 19:08, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

text: I doubt a category could survive CfD. Even King Zeal acknowledges how much of it is subjective. Doczilla 04:21, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  People who didn't really have a "comic book death" 

message: I don't disagree that Marvel is guilty of bringing back characters from the dead, but DC's had it's fair share as well.  Three recent examples are Donna Troy, Booster Gold and the Cult of Connor (or whatever it was called) where a group of heroes back from the dead attend a supposed resurrection ceremony.  I'm not gonna personally sit down and break down every "comic book death" ever (nor do I expect anyone else to, either, although they're more than welcome to), but without evidence, should we maybe remove the implication/statements that Marvel does it more?  Both companies do it a significant amount.
Darquis 04:04, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that there's no hard evidence that Marvel engages in the practice any more so than other publishers like DC, and there's no citation in the text either. I have removed the paragraph in the article about Marvel doing this more than other publishers. —Lowellian (reply) 04:21, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

text: The "Mutant heaven has no pearly gates, only revolving doors" quote in X-Factor #70 is not proof of anything; DC has also referenced comic book deaths and the tendency of characters to return. —Lowellian (reply) 04:23, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anti-Marvel POV 

message: Should there be a section on this as well?  What I mean is examples where someone supposedly thought dead (examples are Sue Dibny (who was Faust) or Gwen Stacy (a clone, about 80 times)) apparently comes back, only to have it revealed that they were dead all along.
Darquis 04:04, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No separate section, I think that's one of the typical uses of comic book death.  PsyphicsΨΦ 15:00, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fake "comic book death" ? 

message: Hmm...I'm interested to know why Æon Flux "isn't the same thing". Isn't the same thing as what? Some further explanation would be appreciated.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Drsnaut (talk • contribs).
:Doczilla can certainly speak for himself as to why he reverted your [addition], but since I was considering doing the same, I can answer as to why I was planning to:  because the deaths of Aeon Flux didn't express that the viewer was meant to believe the character was dead.  In other words there was no intended dramatic tension to these "deaths", simply a quick death-and-come-back that was a regular part of the story.  Similarly I recall that references to the South Park character of Kenny have been removed from this article in the past for similar reasons.  Hope that helps in some way. -Markeer 13:33, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Æon Flux 

message: The other entry covers similar ground and shouldn't have been created so a merge seems in order. (Emperor 18:43, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge

message: Common retcons include:
An explosion didn't kill the character, they were merely buried in rubble/flung to safety/transported to another dimension (Spider-Man villain Hammerhead once survived a nuclear explosion in this way). [2] 
The person who died was a clone, impostor, or shapeshifter (Dark Phoenix being the most well-known example).[3] 
The character really did die, but was resurrected, either intentionally (e.g., Green Arrow)[4] or unintentionally (e.g., Jason Todd)[5] by some cosmic or magical being
i think we have missed an importtant one, something along the line of :
the victims superpowers work in previously unused, unknown ways to prevent their death; ( development of healingfactors etc)
i was thinking here of animal mans  death   ( the one where he  jumps bodies before he grows his own body from a part of his dead body)   or jamie madrox's  death from the legacy viris  where he  transfers his constiousness into his un inffected dupe. can anyone help me  with tracking down issue numbers to cite as reference and perhaps refine the  text a little.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dr noire (talk • contribs) 19:59, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, that's certainly interesting, although grouping that collection of events under any one heading might be headed into original research.  To be honest, the passage is only meant to give a few examples to illuminate the point, not attempt any comprehensive list of ways around death, so I don't know if any other examples would be useful. - Markeer 17:00, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: common retcons any we have missed?

message: This article needs the B-Class checklist filled in to remain a B-Class article for the Comics WikiProject.  If the checklist is not filled in by 7th August this article will be re-assessed as C-Class.  The checklist should be filled out referencing the guidance given at Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment/B-Class criteria. For further details please contact the Comics WikiProject.  Comics-awb (talk) 16:10, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: WikiProject Comics B-Class Assesment required

message: Deleted this:
"and of Sonic the Hedgehog, the main character in the 2006 video game, who died at the hands of Mephiles the Dark, who then fused together with the released Iblis to form Solaris; Sonic was later resurrected by the power of the Chaos Emeralds (activated by a kiss from Princess Elise), became Super Sonic, and defeated Solaris along with Shadow and Silver the Hedgehog in their super forms before extinguishing the Flames of Disaster along with Elise, thereby changing the game's timeline so that he doesn't die."
You should only need to look at it to realise that it's ridiculously long, rambling fanwank and totally unneccessary.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.176.154.135 (talk) 09:37, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: I done deleted something

message: As this B-Class article has yet to receive a review, it has been rated as C-Class. If you disagree and would like to request an assesment, please visit Wikipedia:WikiProject_Comics/Assessment#Requesting_an_assessment and list the article. Hiding T  13:50, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: C-Class rated for Comics Project

message: "Deaths and subsequent resurrections have become such an institution on comic book narratives that certain characters have been written with this as a character trait, such as DC's Solomon Grundy, Resurrection Man and Marvel's Mr. Immortal."
Wouldn't Doomsday be a prime example for that little list, too?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.89.74.34 (talk) 05:51, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Doomsday? 

message: This morning yet another trivial example of a non-comics non-death was added to the Outside Comic Books section of this article.  Article creep has made this section the largest of the article, and it's the one section which most likely doesn't belong here at all since it (by definition) doesn't relate to the core topic.  In it's current form, it's a trivia section for enthusiasts.
Starting this discussion section on whether to delete the section entirely, or how best to leave it with one (and only one) paragraph.  If no comments or discussion take place, I'll remove the section in a week or so.  -Markeer 16:36, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I shortened up this section a few days ago to a basic description with one popular example, I have now moved onto removing items from the "Parodies" subsection that do not relate to comic books.   A number of editors seem to have a favorite example of someone dying and coming back in some movie, tv show or other.  I suggest editors read the WP essays regarding relevance of content and handling trivia.  I'm not opposed to one or two examples used to explain or expand upon a subject.  I am opposed to throwing a large number of examples into an article that add no new information except, perhaps, entertainment value. -Markeer 15:51, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

text: Why do we even need this section? If there was an article on characters dying but not dying in soap operas there might be a case for including a link in the see also section but I don't see why it is there. (Emperor (talk) 20:53, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Outside Comic Books Section 

message: Excuse my poor edit in relation to the recent resurrection of Steve Rodgers. I noticed you were a touch out of date as to his status the article has been amended.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.149.147.161 (talk) 19:03, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Captain America Reborn 

message: If we're going to go outside comic books, how can we leave "Candide" out? And it reads about like a comic book.108.93.144.242 (talk) 02:06, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Candide 

message: If I am not mistaken there wasn't a single character who was revived after death in the Ultimate Marvel universe yet. With it being around 800 issues over the course of 10 years with quite a few dead characters it is becoming kinda notable.
217.226.175.55 (talk) 23:07, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable Exceptions? 

message: I noticed the section In Universe Acknowledgement only gives examples from the Marvel universe. Should there be examples from DC included as well?
I stumbled on some such scenes while reading post Endgame comics like Robin: Son of Batman, Red Hood/Arsenal and Teen Titans. (When Batman is assumed dead.) Alisio Star (talk) 12:08, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  More diverse examples in In Universe section 

message: I personally think Barry Allen's death in Crisis on Infinite Earths is just as notable as Jean Gray or Superman. He stayed dead for twenty-four years (1985 to 2009), longer than any revived character I can think of except the already-mentioned Bucky, and unlike Bucky at the time of his death, he was a long-established hero with a fanbase. Sadly, I'm busy, lazy and not familiar with this site. 
Also, we might need to scrap the "in-universe" section. Comics break the fourth wall into dust these days, there are surely too many examples to possibly list.
129.101.212.228 (talk) 03:10, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Barry Allen in Notable Examples? 

message: You have forgotten to cite Captain Marvel's death in the Marvel Graphic Novel The Death of Captain Marvel--2A01:E0A:867:C210:28F8:CD1B:1D08:BA02 (talk) 01:13, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Captain Marvel