Talk:Barlas

message: The spelling is atrocious. Would the creator (or someone who can get into the creator's head) please clean it up!
:Thank you! Odin of Trondheim 20:43, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: spelling

message: I'm removing the following unsourced statements:
The Barlas were fierce warriors even among Mongols, and the famous American Historian, Harold Lamb wrote of them that "They laughed into battle" and that "They walked with a swagger and moved aside for no one." The Barlas Mongols originally rode out of Mongol lands with Chingis Khan, and subsequently settled as hereditary aristocratic warriors in the lands he bequeathed to his son, Chaghtai or Jagatai. That these warrior Mongols married, and intermingled to some degree with the local Turks, and settled in the lands bequeathed to Chagtai, does not make them Chagtai Turks, which they are often wrongly referred to as, because there is no such ethnic group, and it is just a loose frame of reference unrelated to actual lineage.
The Barlas warrior who brought the clan to hegemonic imperial power was the fierce conqueror Timur or Tamerlane, (1334(?) - 1406) who conquered the Central Asian Steppes, Persia, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, India, the Ottoman empire and much more. Old, blind and sick at the end of his days, and lame since his youth, he died in the saddle, on his way to conquer China, the only power left for him to conquer. Timur ibn Taraghay Barlas was widely considered the military equal of Chingis Khan, and was never defeated in battle, where, unlike Chingis Khan, he always led from the front.
Timur's direct descendent, Babur, founded the Mughal Empire in India, the richest empire ever, anywhere, which ruled India from 1526-1857. Barlas was the imperial family of the Mughals of India, who are often misleadingly referred to as "Chagtai Turks" as discussed earlier.
By way of Shakhrisabz in Uzbekistan, from whence Timur rose after the original Barlas Mongols had settled there, the Barlas became the imperial clan of Mongols that ruled the richest empire ever in India, and one of the richest and largest ones before that, across much of Asia, in the 14th century, under Timur. No other clan or family in the history of the world has ruled two such significant empires.
Please, provide cited references in order to check the verifiability of the information given. Thank you. E104421 (talk) 16:13, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: unsourced statements

message: I have tried to clean up and reorganize the article. 
I have separated the article into 3 sections: (1) origins (2) Timurids & Mughals (3) legacy
I also added 2 additional infos (+ sources) to the article: a) a short reference to Qarchar Barlas (the eponymous ancestor of the clan) and b) a short reference to the Uzbek language which is the direct descendant of the Chagatai language spoken by the early Barlas. 
The creation of the sections also needed the reorganizing of 2-3 paragraphs, but no information has been deleted or changed. Tājik (talk) 15:14, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  recent edit 

message: The family of the Nawabs of Amb have long history of rule over the former Amb State also known as Mulk e Tanawul in pre-british rule documents, which is now a part of the NWFP, Pakistan. They are said to be descendants of Barlas tribe of the Mughals and this has been mentioned in many historical books, for example; The Asiatic Journal and Monthly Register for British and Foreign India, China, and Australia (1841), in the following words; "There is one chief who, though not an Eusofzye, yet from his position in the midst of, and intimate connection with, the Eusofzyes, and his singular history and character, must not be omitted in a description of the Eusofzye country. Paieendah Khan, of Tanawul, is a Mogul of the Birlas tribe, the same from which the Ameer Timoor was descended. All record of the first settlement in Tanawul of his family is lost, and it has long ago broken off all connection with the other branches of the Birlas, which are still to be found in Turkestan." (The Asiatic Journal and Monthly Register for British and Foreign India, China, and Australia Published by Parbury, Allen, and Co., 1841, Item notes: v. 39, Original from the New York Public Library, Digitized 1 Apr 2008, pg 220-224)
I believe this article must include these notable families which have Birlas descent, in what ever way it may look appropriate.Wikitanoli (talk) 06:26, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nawabs of Amb 

message: I have reverted the edits of a user that were no improvements and seemed to be a violation of copy rights. Tajik (talk) 10:58, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  RV 

message: Mughol-zai is a subtribe of GilZai or Tokhi tribe:
Tokhi (Ghilzai) A Ghalji (Ghilzai) tribe found throughout southern and western Afghanistan, although most heavily concentrated in Zabul and Uruzgan. Two main sub-tribes are the Muhammadzai (the largest) and Shamulzai (Shimalzai); other divisions include the Jalazai, Babakrzai, Miranzai, Jaffri, Pirozai (Pir Khel), and Kishaini.
 
Ghilzai pathans have been originated from Turkey.
 
(It may be possible that the people who are claiming themselves as Mughal-Pathans are actually Mughol-Zai from Ghilzai tribe)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.31.240.166 (talk) 19:53, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  About Mughal Pathans: 

message: Chagatai and Uzbek are related, but Uzbek did not evolve out of Chagatai. For some time, the two languages even existed side-by-side. And the sources attached to that claim do not claim otherwise. --Lysozym (talk) 19:40, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chagatai vs. Uzbek 

message: Lysozym and Nawabmalhi: I have protected this page owing to your slow edit warring. Please reach a consensus here, so that any further disruption to the encyclopedia can be avoided. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:00, 12 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protected 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: If Barlas is indeed of Mongolian origin, what does Barlas mean in Mongolian?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gunner555 (talk • contribs) 14:29, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Barlas Mongolian? are you sure? 

message: If anyone cares enough to insert the Mongolian spelling rather than just having a Romanized version, this is it: Барулас. 67.83.99.134 (talk) 20:09, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mongolian spelling of "Barulas" 

message: According WP:RSPRIMARY, "Wikipedia articles should be based mainly on reliable secondary sources, i.e., a document or recording that relates or discusses information originally presented elsewhere". "All interpretive claims, analyses, or synthetic claims about primary sources must be referenced to a secondary source, rather than original analysis of the primary-source material by Wikipedia editors". No need to change Mongolian origin to Turkic. According to the prominent turkologist Balkis Karmysheva "there are no special studies, reasonable statements, giving grounds to dispute the Mongolian origin of the Barlas" (in original: "нет ни специальных исследований, ни более обоснованного высказывания, дающих основание оспаривать монгольское происхождение барласов"). According to the orientalist Ilya Petrushevsky, the term Turks in Persian sources has not so much ethnic as social and everyday character. The Turks in Persian sources can mean both Mongol-speaking and even Tibetan cattle-breeding tribes.  According to him: "It can be argued, with a high degree of probability, that the barlas were Mongol-speaking, and not Türkic-speaking" (in original: "Можно утверждать, с большой долей вероятности, относительно ряда племен — татар, кераитов, найманов, джалаиров, сулдузов, барласов, меркитов, ойратов, — что в XIII в. они были монголоязычны, а не тюркоязычны").--KoizumiBS (talk) 21:43, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin 

message: This ip seems to linked to the previous ips. I don't want to point to certain user, but those IPs are located in Bangladesh. Beshogur (talk) 19:18, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  {{ip|103.127.85.195}} 

message: Those IPs are located in Bangladesh, and always doing similar edits. I won't give a name but there's a certain user I suspect to use them. Similarly claiming he's "Borjigid-Moghul" descent and located in Bangladesh. Any thouhgts?    , since you created Qarachar Noyan. Beshogur (talk) 13:29, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: If they do not have a source for their addition, then it is speculation. As for who the IP might be, I have no clue. --Kansas Bear (talk) 13:55, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the sources may be faked as well. Full of misleading + OR information. Similar to the Suqu Sechen Barlas article, and others. Funnily, Qarachar is claimed to be founder of Barulas, while his grandfather is still named Erumduli Barlas. Most of them have not even page numbers. IP users claims Barlas was founded in 1227, and its founder is Qarachar, however the Secret History mentions the name Barulas comes from Barulatai, which is mentioned in chapter one (lot of myth stuff etc) and Qarachar is mentioned in Chapter three. So lot of these stuff put by IPs seems suspicious. Actually to be honest, I don't know much about these stuff, and didn't research. The reasons I revert are, as I told, lot of suspicious stuff going on, and various IPs by the same country, and perhaps used by a wiki user, to avoid getting blocked. Beshogur (talk) 14:25, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  hey can you patrol these pages? Beshogur (talk) 16:08, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I can keep an eye open, but it's not an area in which I have much background understanding either. Iskandar323 (talk) 18:06, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  IPs starting with 103