Talk:Rumi/Archive 2

message: Can you create a disambiguation page for Rumi so that there can also be a way to find Rumi the Japanese hip-hop artist, when searching for the string Rumi?
Seriozha (talk) 19:30, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comments 

message: It is common knowledge that he is a sunni, and in this page a while back he has been referred to sunni before, who follows the Hanafi school of thought. It was not until the 15th century, when the Safavid empire took over Persia that Iran became mainly Shia (Afghanistan still remains a majority Sunni). SO PLEASE REMOVE SHIITE FROM THIS. RUMI is a SUNNI, who follows the Hanafi school of thought.Xtremownage   —Preceding comment was added at 02:40, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  HE IS NOT A SHIA 

message: First of all, it is indeed strange that Mawlana Rumi is listed as belonging to the Shiite sect. Even Shia scholars only venture to say that he was 'spiritually' a shia, but not not in jurisprudence.
Second, Mawlana's commitment to Islam cannot be questioned. Here is a poem in Ibrahim Gamard's translation proving that he was no 'univeral' mystic beyond the confines of orthodoxy: 
"The Light of Muhammad [1] has become a thousand branches (of knowledge), a thousand, so that both this world and the next have been seized from end to end. If Muhammad rips the veil open from a single such branch, thousands of monks and priests will tear the string of false belief from around their waists." [2]
In the translator's notes:
[1] This refers to the Sufi doctrine about the spiritual influence of the Prophet, which continues in each generation…
[2] In the traditional Muslim state, the “People of the Book” (Christians and Jews) had a protected status (they could freely practice their own religion and enforce their own religious law, were exempt from military service, and were to be protected from attack), in exchange for which they paid an annual tax. In addition, they wore a cord around the waist to identify them, which they broke off when converting to Islam.
Excerpted from Ibrahim Gamard’s “Rumi and Islam: Selections from His Stories, Poems, and Discourses”, pp. 176-177  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.249.176.170 (talk) 00:26, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  More on Rumi and Islam 

message: I find it strange that Shiism is listed as an influence on the Maulana, while it is known that he was a Sunni? Persia first Shiite state was established after 1500, while the Maulana lived long before that. The article should either state that he was a Sunni, or Sunnism should also be listed as an influence, because he was a Hanafi, wasn't he?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.202.75.200 (talk) 23:27, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shiite?? 

message: I have skimmed through this article, and feel that while it is of a good quality overall, sections of it are too full of polemic for a wikipedia article. - this is particularly the case in the 'Rumi and orthodox islam' section. I Suggest that those who are experts in some sense on this topic go through this, and try and rework this section to represent a more general academic view, giving appropriate space (without authorial criticism) for conflicting views. User:HyDeckar 12:11, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But this poem is not in the earliest manuscripts and so probably is not a genuine Rumi poem. R. A. Nicholson first published a translation of this line in 1898, but he admitted that, "The original text does not occur in any of the editions or MSS used by me" (p. 281)
This statemnet is not factual in anyway, that line does exist in Molana's Ghazaliat from the original divan shams tabriz that nicholson had in his personal possession, secondly Nicholson never admits that that specific peom does not occure, if you read his comment on poem #XXXI on page 281 he first expalins the quatrain containing the exerpt ("I am not a Christian, a Jew, a Zoroastrian, or a Muslim") and then makes reference to a "counterpart" to this poem which is similar and is echoed in a poem by emerson,this second poem which he claims he does not have and doesnt occure in any of the editions.He then eludes to two cites where this SECOND poem can be found in english :Dabistan, Vol. I. p clxvi and in german , Von Himmer, Shone Redekunste Persiens p.191. Please do not take a random sentence cut and paste it where it benfits your argument, and provide the proper references or read more carefully before making such an assumtion.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.114.79.232 (talk) 04:38, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Style 

message: Perhaps I've missed any relevant material, but I haven't seen mention of the rather homosexual overtones within Rumi's tomes of poetry. They were certainly a contentious issue then and now. --AWF —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.54.154.26 (talk) 02:13, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Homoeroticism in Rumi

message: See here for reasons why people say this:
http://www.beliefnet.com/boards/message_list.asp?boardID=399&discussionID=348092
http://www.amazon.com/History-Gay-Literature-Male-Tradition/dp/product-description/0300072015
http://rumi.tribe.net/thread/f2df274e-19c6-460f-b3ad-28b8c7ff698c
http://www.khamush.com/bio.htm
http://www.gaytoday.com/pressroom/ReadPR.asp?id=56
http://www.lifepositive.com/Spirit/masters/Rumi/Life-Rumi.asp
Why are people afraid of homo-eroticism in Rumi??? Arbol25 21:29, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Why didn't you sign? -homo-eroticism reputation of Rumi

message: The notion of the perfect human is so much higher than the level rumi reached... Though he was an amazing man, one who has reached very high levels of humanity and spirituality (much more than normal people)... he was still far far far away from being a perfect human or an Infallible —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.97.51.112 (talk) 23:28, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rumi as a perfect human 

message: #Does Wikiquotes have quotes by Rumi?  If so, can someone who knows how add a link or box?  If not, what about adding a quote section here until it gets so unwieldy we should move it to Wikiquotes? :)
:Yes, it does, and it's linked waaay at the bottom.DBlomgren 15:49, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quotes by Rumi 

message: :He was not from Rum, he moved to Rum later in life.Azerbaijani 02:41, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Rumi

message: Although Rumi has written all his assays in Persian Language,he in his MESNEVI in all the 6 volumes
he always has stated that he was a TURKISH man. This is very clear. By his time some of the thinkers were writing their assays in ARABIC or in Persian languages. But this does not show that 
RUMI was an Persian...He was born in HORASAN in that time Horasan was in MAVERAUNNEHIR,in two rivers,this area was West Turkistan...It has no relation with Persia at all.
And Rumi lived in Konya a TURKISH city, that time this city was under the SELJUK RULE. SELJUKS were TURKISH ...No relation with Persia...
So please lets be honest, after Rumi`s Death his followers and his sons built the MEVLEVI TARIQAT.
Still Mevlevis make their SEMAS in KONYA...
So Rumi was a real TURKISH MAN. He  was not a Persian. But he has used only Persian Language.Since Persian and Arabic languages were assumed the languages of literature of that time. 
::Well then, what about Mustafa Kemal Attaturk's disdain towards dervishes, whom he viewed as an example of the backwardness of Ottoman culture that needed to be "modernized" if the Turks (and Arabs) were not to be steamrollered by European colonialism during the era of the Great War? Surely this guru is a great guy and an example of the early flowering of Ottoman culture, but to posit him as Turkish in the modern sense seems somewhat misplaced.  However, if this ostensible national adoption is reflective of greater tolerance by the current Turkish regime, and in particular by its military, then so be it.  Modern Turkey has, to its credit, always sought to be a secular state, unfortunately even going to extremes of religious and ethnic persecution to achieve it, something it continues to be in major denial about. Nonetheless, this is, as with the legacy of Nasser in Egypt, a powerful countertrend to Islamic fundamentalism that needs to be noted. Tom Cod 04:11, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rumi is a TURKISH man  

message: To prove someone's ethnicity, I guess that the best source is his own words. I'm trying to find the original (probably in Masnawi) verses, but the following Turkish and English translation is written by Rumi himself: 
"Yabanci degil, sizin köyün halkindan/Bir dostum, semtinizde bir yer arayan/ Düşman da görünse çehrem, olamam düşman/Acemce söylesem de Türküm aslen."
In English: Not a foreigner, I'm from your village/I'm a friend, who seeks a place in your town/Even if my face seems hostile, I can't be your enemy/Even though I talk in Persian, I am a Turk." 
The original poem should be referred, indeed. 85.97.182.41 15:15, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry but Rumi has no such Turkish poem and you need to bring the original Persian. He has a poem that says نگار من ترک است و گرچه من ترک نیستم ..اما میدانم که به ترکی هست آب سو.(you are a Turkish moon, I, although I am not Turk, know that much, that in Turkish the word water is su)(Ann Marrie Schimmel, The Triumphal Sun: A Study of the Works of Jalaloddin Rumi, pg 196).  Plus Rumi's son explicitly says he does not know Turkish/Greek well and he knows Persian and Arabic well.  Also Rumi compares himself to Roman, Hindu, Turk, Zang and etc.  These have symbolic meaning in Persian poetry.  I am sometimes Turk, sometimes Hindu, sometimes Rumi(Roman/Greek) and sometimes Negro..(Ann Marrie Schimmel, The Triumphal Sun: A Study of the Works of Jalaloddin Rumi, pg 196).  The symbols Turk, Hindu, Roman, Negro(Zang) in Persian poetry does not denote ethnicity but has multiple layers of meaning which is explained in that book.  To show that Rumi is not a turk is best to quote his non-poetical works which is compiled by Aflaki.  For example this one is in the praise of Greeks in comparison to Turks, from the book of Aflaki:  There is a well known story that the sheikh Salah al-Din one day hired some Turkmen workmen to build the walls of his garden. "Effendi Salah al-Din", said the master (Rumi), "you must hire Greek workmen for this construction. It is for the work of demolition that Turkish workmen must be hired. For the construction of the world is special to the Greeks, and the demolition of this same world is reserved for the Turks. When God created the universe, he first made the carefree infidels. He gave them a long life and considerable force in such a fashion...that in the manner of paid workmen they constructed the earthly world. They erected numerous cities and mountain fortresses...so that after centuries these constructions served as models to the men of recent times. But divine predestination has disposed of affairs in such a way that little by little the constructions become ruins. He created the people of the Turks in order to demolish, without respect or pity, all the constructions which they see. They have done this and are still doing it. They shall continue to do it day in and day out until the Resurrection!.   Note by this satement along it shows Rumi was neither Greek or Turk.  That is why his son also says he does not know Turkish or Greek well but is at ease with Persian.  In His Masnavi and Diwan he also disapproves of plunderance of Oguz tribes and he has described Turks as cheshm-tang (narrow eyed) given the fact that original Turks were not of caucasoid stock.  I would read Franklin's book which is the most up to date on Rumi's biography and also in Aflaki.  Rumi's family actually comes from Vakhsh in Tajikistan.  --24.168.149.56 23:54, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Not true.   Rumi's name is Rumi because majority were Greeks.  Seljuqs were Persianized thoroughly.  But if this is sufficient we have direct statement from Rumi's son that he did not know Turkish and Greek well and he is more comfortable in Arabic and Persian.  (Despite being born in modern Turkey).  Plus Rumi's fathers work contains archaic Persian words and thus proves he was actually from Vakhsh as proposed by Franklin.  By the way Khorasan is different than Mawa-an-Nahr.  --alidoostzadeh 01:16, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

text:  "Rumi's name is Rumi because majority were Greeks". It is not correct. Look at old maps: You will see Anatolia as "Turchia", because majority was Turkish, or "Diyar-ı Rum", "Sultanate of Rum" meaning that lands of Rome. Fatih has also the name "Kayser-i Rum", (Ceasar of Rome). Rum means Anatolia, and Rumi is equivalent to saying Turkish. Rum indicates these lands are former Roman Empire. Also, Ottoman Empire is the successor of Roman Empire. (This is information on what Rumi means, not about Mevlana, himself.Paparokan 20:56, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:   Rumi as a language is used for Greek.  When Mowlana's son talks about not knowing Rumi and Turkish  languages well, he means Greek by Rumi.  Also Turkey is a modern name, the old name is Ottoman empire in the west.  Iranians called it Rome during the Safavid era.  Rumi's name comes from the fact that he migrated from Khorasan(Born in Vakhsh in Tajikistan and migrated to Balkh in Afghanistan) and from Balkh to Rum (Greece).  --alidoostzadeh 22:59, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

text: You are wrong again. See Halil Inalcık book "Tarihçilerin Kutbu", page 156.
Rumi is equivalent to Anatolian, or Turkish. Ottoman Empire was given the name of Rumi in India, Indonesia, Arabia. Name for Anatolia is Biladurrum in Arabic languages. Rumi also means Anatolian Turkish muskeeters in Indian Babur Empire in 1500's. India is conquered by these Rumi soldiers. Rumi's second meaning is Anatolian, or Turkish(from Turkey). Rumi in Mowlana' name does not refer to benig Greek, but refer to being Anatolian. 
In West Ottoman Empire was knowns as Turkey, it is a very old name. (See the map on Balkan Wars, also there are older maps in which Anatolia is called Turkey.) In summary, Turkey was known as Turkey in West, and Rum in East in history. Paparokan 13:54, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fact is Ottomans did not used Turkey.  --alidoostzadeh 15:25, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course, yes.Paparokan 16:05, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Chagatay is heir to Uzbek which is very easten turkic.. Rumi has about 50 verses of greek/200 verses of western turkic.  But these are macronical and attributed.  His son says that he doesn't known Greek/Turkish well which shows the mothertongue language of the family was persian.(“Rumi’s mother tongue was Persian, but he had learned during his stay in Konya, enough Turkish and Greek to use it, now and then, in his verse”(Annemarie Schimmel, The Triumphal Sun: A Study of the Works of Jalaloddin Rumi, SUNY Press, 1993. pg 193))“Sultan Valad (Rumi's son) elsewhere admits that he has little knowledge of Turkish”(Franklin Lewis, Rumi Past and Present, East and West, Oneworld Publications, 2000pg 239)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.168.149.56 (talk) 03:27, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: They are western Turkic of that time (when the Seljuqs just entered).  It is of course not today's Turkish.  Rumi's son , Sultan Walad has about 1% of his poetry in Greek (Rumi) and Turkish.  He admits he doesn't know turkish well:T ürkche bilseyd üm ben eyed üm size - Sirlarin kim tanridan de ğdi (If I knew Turkish, I would tell my secrets that God has revealed.   And similarly: Gozar az goft-e Rumi o Torki - Chon az aan Estelaah Mahroomi (Forget about Greek and Turkish - since you do not know these languages well - Lik az Paarsi gooy o Taazi (Thus speak of Persian and Arabic) - Chonkeh dar har khosh hami taazi (because you horse rides these well (meaning he is acquainted with it)).   --24.168.149.56 02:37, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Proof of Turkishness

message: It looks like this page needs some major re-formatting work.  There are multiple sections for references, footnotes, and bibliographies, as an example.  Any volunteers for a cleanup effort? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.16.255.168 (talk) 00:50, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Formatting 

message: The word Tajik should be removed from the introduction because he was Iranian-Persian. Tajik's are Persians living in Tajikistan and other parts of Central Asia. In Rumi's time Balkh was still apart of Iran. Also, His name should not be written in Turkish because that is irrelevent. He was not Turkic, he did not speak Turkish and never once wrote a word in Turkish. Dariush4444 22:04, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Turkish spelling should be mentioned, because nowadays, most of his followers live in Turkey. The term "Tajik" is mentioned in Rumi's poetry and was the common name given to Persian during his life-time. Tājik 02:20, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: He was Persian

message: I nominated this article as a good article but we should improve to reach Good article criteria.
These are my suggestions:
# Pictures: 
##Without tag::File:Rmmtk.jpg: This picture doesn't have any tag.
##Without Help:Image page#Fair use rationale#fair use ratioal: :File:Higherself.jpg, :File:Rdance.jpg, :File:Tavern1.jpg, :File:Rumi concert nazeri.gif
I corrected the images. The problem of all of them has been solved except :File:Rmmtk.jpg--Sa.vakilian(t-c) 17:42, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I can help in refereshing the references. Don't you think it was better to resolve the above issues first and then nominate it for a good article?(Arash the Archer 06:01, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I guess they won't review this article until next week and we can improve it until then. I wanted to attract others to help with improving this article and I believe it's completely possible. --Sa.vakilian(t-c) 16:58, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I corrected the images' copyright tags.--Sa.vakilian(t-c) 17:42, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Good article nomination

message: I can't understand the Tājīk in parenthesis which is linked to Tājīk ethnicity.  How do we know for sure he was ethnically Tājīk. We only know he was born in Balkh but still doesn't prove he is Tājīk unless a DNA test or something is done. Even if we can prove that he was Tājīk; It is the first time that I see the ethnicity of a person is mentioned in the first sentence. Moreover none of other encyclopedias use this term. The other confusion is about the word Persian. Persian can refer to  Persian (Ethnicity),  Persian (language), and residents of the country of Persia(Iran). I think to much emphasis on ethnicity will bring racism issues, therefore here we should say Rumi was a Persian … (As it is done in many reliable sources) and Wikilink Persian to Iran or Persian Empire or Greater Iran  as the name of the country he was from not his ethnicity.(Arash the Archer 01:14, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This term Tajik was what ethnic Persians and/or Persian-speakers were called during that era in Balkh and the rest of Central Asia, especially by Turks. And today ethnic Persians and/or Persian-speakers in that region are also called Tajik. Tajik is not a race and there is no DNA test for it since they are a mix of Bactrians, Sogdians, Parnians, and Scythians with sometimes a slight Turkic admixture, especially in Central Asia. Tajik is a cultural/linguistic term that generally applies to Persians and/Persians of Central Asian and in general east of modern Iran. See the article Tajiks. Rumi's ethnicity was Persian and the link will take you to the Persian people article which explains that Persians are an ethic group. SIt is not about ethnicity, or nationalism, it is simply stating his ethnic background with relation to his time and also to today as would any biography. So both terms should stay, it makes no sense to remove either one. --Behnam 05:30, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks Behnam. I think you should add this to Tajik if it is well sourced so no one else get confused like me.(Arash the Archer 13:56, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Persian (Tājīk)

message: I put tags on some images and asked one of Wiki admins to check them. This is his answer:In re your question -- :File:Rumi concert nazeri.gif seems fine.  The other three, :File:Higherself.jpg, :File:Rdance.jpg and :File:Tavern1.jpg need to make a Wikipedia:Fair use claim or be deleted, as we do not accpet "non-commercial" or "educational use only" content here.  Jkelly 19:13, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we don't need numerous images and we can deleted some of them. but if you insist on keeping them, we can add fair use tag.--Sa.vakilian(t-c) 02:46, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed these pictures.--Sa.vakilian(t-c) 04:19, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Some images

message: I took a glance at the references and here are my observasions:
*The flowing references are not reliable:
** 5 is a travel agency site 
** 9, 25 is a shopping website. 
** 16 is a personal home page.
*12 is not clear “The Mysteries of the Universe and Rumi's Discoveries on the Majestic Path of Love” 
*18 ,23,27 are dead.
*31,33,  are not English and corresponding information is not correct(Nazeri in Oscars). They should be deleted.
*I couldn't verify the reliability of 1017 they seem to be weak.
I will try to find better references but I am not a persistant Wikipedian and I ask everyone to help.(Arash the Archer 16:17, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: A review on references

message: I am failing this article for GA.  There is a lot of excellent material here, and I think it can reach GA without a great deal of extra work, but there are a few problems.
#References.  There are several unreferenced sections, and a few "citation needed" cleanup tags.  The tags need to be fixed, and references found for the others.  Examples:
##Under "Life", the first five paragraphs have only one reference.
##"Teachings of Rumi" is largely unreferenced
#In addition, the problems mentioned above by Arash the Archer are not yet addressed; I checked two or three of his comments and those problems still exist.
#Fair use.  There are pictures which do not have adequate fair use rationales.  See Help:Image_page#Fair_use_rationale for more on what a rationale has to include; :File:Higherself.jpg, for example, has a rationale but not one that meets the requirements.  :File:Rumi museum.jpg also appears to have a copyright issue.
#Generally, the whole "Life" section is not written in a neutral tone.  For example, in the "Life" section, there is this sentence: "Attar immediately recognized Rumi's spiritual eminence."  As it stands this has the article endorsing Rumi's spiritual eminence, which is a subjective judgement.  It would be OK to include this as a direct quote from a source that states this.  Alternatively you could rephrase it as something like "Attar is supposed to have immediately recognized Rumi's spiritual eminence."  Another example would be the meeting with Shams Tabrizi: a voice appearing to Rumi is something that should be described not as necessarily happening, but as the way it is related to have happened.  E.g. 'A voice is said to have come, "What will you give in return?"'  And of course this would need to be sourced too.  The third paragraph of the "Teachings" section uses a style like this. It would also be possible to summarize and simply give references, though if the direct quotes add value they are fine.  However, this neutrality problem does show up in the later sections too.  I can give additional examples if you would like me to.
#A minor point: is it "Masnavi" or "Mathnavi"?  It would be best to be consistent, even if you do mention alternative spellings.
Issues that would not prevent GA:
#There has been quite a bit of editing going on, including some significant additions -- are the editors here comfortable that the article is fairly stable?  If you think there's more that can be done, by all means add it and renominate it when it's stable.  I wouldn't fail it at this point just for this issue as there does not appear to be edit-warring.
#A copyedit question: what is meant by "local dialogue" in the lead?  Should it be "dialect"?
If you would have any questions, I will keep this page on my watchlist for a while, or you can post a note at my talk page.  If you feel that this review is in error, please feel free to take it to a GA review.
-- Mike Christie (talk) 01:59, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Failed GA 

message: ... is way too long. Please delete and keep a small subset of these. You may also could consider using some of the material in these websites as sources for this article, where appropriate. Form more info see WP:EL ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 19:08, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  External Links section.... 

message: The name "Rumi" comes from the "rome" and "roman", initially meaning the citizen of the Roman Empire, but in eastern roman (and later otoman) region came to mean "greek orthodox". Large greek and other populations were by force islamized under the otoman, arab or persian rule. This is why the modern citizens of turkey do not have the mongolic characteristics of the central Asia populations who speak turanic languages.
Rumi knew very well the orthodox dogma and the greek language and wrote several poems in greek with arabic alphabet. See the bibliography in the Wikipedia article 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cappadocian_Greek_language —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Georgar (talk • contribs) 11:55, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rumi, an islamized Greek 

message: Ibn al Rumi is another poet; he died in 283 AH (896 AD), about 2 centuries earlier.  He was born in Baghdad and he had clear and distinguishable Byzantine ancestry.  His name was Ali Ibn Abbas Ibn Guraige, Guraige being the Arabized form of Gregory.
Hence, I deleted the part in the introduction where it says "sometimes shortened to Ibn Al Rumi) as it refers to someone else. --Maha Odeh 07:11, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jalal ad-Din Al Rumi is not the same as Ibn Al Rumi 

message: I cannot navigate to this article by searching "Rumi."  Considering the myriad spellings of all the other parts of the poet's name, this would seem the one reliable search phrase.  
Words for the wind 19:56, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: See Rumi, which redirects to this article. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 20:10, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why can't I search "Rumi"? 

message: I'm not familiar with the subject, so I can't contribute editorially, but is this the Rumi whose poetry was recorded by Deepak Chopra in the late 90's under the CD name "A Gift of Love"? The CD was commercially very successful and featured numerous celebrity readers (Demi Moore, Martin Sheen, Goldie Hawn, Madonna, etc). If this is the same Rumi then the article should probably mention that fact. Manning 05:39, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deepak Chopra CD with Madonna, etc 

message: It is a shame that despite all what HE said, there are still people trying to offer HIM by force a passport from afghanistan, iran or even turkey. HE was born in balkh (now afghanistan), wrote in persian (now spoken mainly in iran), died in konya (now in turkey). why should we try to bother him with silly stuff like nationality , etc... we all know that: in watan mesro aragho shamm nist... please stop vandalism. a joke at the end: mowlana has, as attar predicted, set the world in fire. for those great hearts fire of love and humanity-oriented worries, for those intellectually poor people fire of possession and exclusive ownership of famous things.
Mowlana forgive us!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.70.24.247 (talk) 18:29, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh please, haven't you heard of the the Battle of Manzikert of 1071? Or of the Anatolian Turkish Beyliks of 11th century? I removed the "nationality" info from the lead. I agree with the user above. Baristarim 05:19, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: He was a Persian Poet and this has been proven so stop removing it.--Anoshirawan 07:20, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Identity issues back than were not so clear-cut back in the day, unlike today at least where every carries some sort of a passport of some kind. I am not saying he didn't have Persian culture or anything, but pinning down the whole thing into a simple issue of nationality doesn't do justice to the article, that's all. He was Muslim if anything, and religion was what mattered the most back in the day. Look at his name, and you will see the mix Rumi was. He had no nationality for crying out loud, look at his works! :) I didn't remove anything however, I just moved Muslim before all the other attributes, I don't see why that should be a problem. Baristarim 07:28, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  May Mowlana himself forgive us! 

message: footnote 11 gives the impression that it refers to the poem, but the text of the article is also very reminiscent of Barks:  see Coleman Barks, The Essential Rumi: New Expanded Edition (HarperSanFrancisco, 2004), p.xx: 'On the night of December 5, 1248, as Rumi and Shams were talking, Shams was called to the back door. He went out, never to be seen again. Most likely he was murdered with the connivance of Rumi's son, Allaedin; if so, Shams indeed gave his head for the privilege of mystical friendship.' Were we lucky enough to have Dr Barks write our present article? Richardson mcphillips1 13:32, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  footnote 11 

message: To anon: 
Would you mind reading your latest silly addition to the Rumi page? Now it reads "...Iranian poet Persian (Tajik) poet, jurist, theologian...". You might be under the impression that Iranian/Persian is not mentioned there, but Persian is already mentioned, so why are you duplicating Iranian and Persian in a way which makes it very stupid to read? Does the phrase "Iranian poet Persian (Tajik) poet.." make sense to you? Can you please revert yourself and read carefully what you are modifying? Thank you. Baristarim 08:34, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Addition 

message: The article has an anachronism: "Upon a proposal by Culture and Tourism Ministry of Turkey, the year 2007 was proposed as the 'International Rumi Year' to UNESCO, but has not yet been confirmed." Was this confirmed? If you know, please fix. Alpheus 07:15, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  International Rumi Year 

message: Franklin Lewis, Rumi Past and Present, East and West, Oneworld Publications, 2000.(most important biography work on Rumi)
“How is it that a Persian boy born almost eight hundred years ago in Khorasan, the northeastern province of greater Iran, in a region that we identify today as Central Asia, but was considered in those days as part of the greater Persian cultural sphere, wound up in Central Anatolia on the receding edge of the Byzantine cultural sphere, in which is now Turkey, some 1500 miles to the west?”(pg 9)
(Parsi-Dari-Language)
This is what Professor. Gilbert Lazard, a famous Iranologist and also the writer of Persian grammer states: "The language known as New Persian, which usually called at this period by the name of Dari or Parsi-Dari,can be classified linguistically as a continuation of Middle Persian, the official religious and literary language of Sassanian Iran, itself a continuation of Old Persian, the language of the Achaemenids. Unlike the other languages and dialects, ancient and modern, of the Iranian group such as Avestan, Parthian, Soghdian, Kurdish, Pashto, etc., Old Middle and New Persian represent one and the same language at three states of its history. It had its origin in Fars (the true Persian country from the historical point of view and is differentiated by dialectical features, still easily recognizable from the dialect prevailing in north-western and eastern Iran".(Lazard, Gilbert 1975, “The Rise of the New Persian Language” in Frye, R. N., The Cambridge History of Iran, Vol. 4, pp. 595-632, Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ali doostzadeh (talk • contribs) 03:26, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Khorasan

message: I think this is a wonderful idea, though that it should be seperate from the 'Legacy' section and put into a new 'Cultural Impact' section (or something similar). This way articles can be added for the cultural impact that Rumi's works have had on other countries such as Afghanistan, Armenia, Azerbaijan, India, Iraq, Pakistan, Tajikistan, Turkey and Uzbekistan to name a few (though the list is potentially endless).
However, I do have a gripe that the source material being used in the current Rumi and Iran section is still a copy of an opinion piece published only by some guy on his website, where he cites no sources. As I have said I think that this is a great idea and opens up room for positive expansion on the article, but if it is to be done properly it must be in accordance with Wikipedia rules: ie. With cited (and where necessary, corroborated) sources, written with the appropriate level of style.
Due to breaking the rules of Wikipedia, the content of that section should for now be removed, and if possible, filled in with some sourced effects of Rumi on Iranian culture to get it going properly
These sub-sections under the potentially new 'Cultural Impact' section will also serve as a way for people of different backgrounds to express their views on their connection with him without cluttering up the main article regarding his life and works.
Please tell me I'm not the only one that thinks this is a good idea?--Mondo Libero (talk) 19:00, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Rumi and Iran"