Talk:Toki Pona

message: About two months ago, I made an edit moving two of the external links, the Toki Pona Dictionary and Bryant Knight (jan Pije)'s lessons to an internet archive, as they were replaced with a resumé site. Both of these resources were located at tokipona.net. Now, they have been restored, but only at the http: address. The https: address, however, still points to 404s on the resumé site.
As there are some extensions which automatically point to the https: domain by default, and some people care about the difference, I am not sure if these should be restored as they were previously. May I please have some advice?
Uncle Opyright (talk) 05:35, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  tokipona.net http vs. https 

message: I think this article has some serious sourcing issues. I've made a post here Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Toki Pona detailing a few that I do not think qualify as WP:RELIABLE, and probably violate WP:OR, WP:PRIMARY, and probably a number of other policies. Heiro 20:44, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not know how much you guys know about toki pona. While wikipedia recommends secondary sources, it doesn't explicitly ban primary sources, for places like these. Toki Pona is a very small community and therefore you won't expect news coverage or articles made for toki pona, and especially not for writing systems that are more niche. Primary sources should be considered in cases like these Bali (talk) 10:26, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

text: You can see this point being made in the earlier section of this very talk page Talk:Toki_Pona#Notability. You can not expect there to be serious secondary sources in areas like these. Context matters. Bali (talk) 12:51, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: User:Guy Macon You do realize that you can write a COI disclaimer right? You feel this is a COI, I dont. You can write a COI disclaimer. I literally said that to you an hour ago and you went ahead and reverted my edit. Anyways though, since I am so tired of this, I will add a quite silly disclaimer on this talk page. Bali (talk) 18:08, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Devbali02 has been blocked from editing this page, nothing more to do here. --Guy Macon (talk) 02:20, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Serious sourcing issues 

message: The title says it all. Some „anonymous user“ removed it again without an explanation. ArgonBebek (talk) 10:34, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why was my Tokiponido paragraph removed? 

message: 123 is no longer correct. In The Toki Pona Dictionary there are 137 nimi ku suli and 181 nimi ku. Crockett623 (talk) 21:14, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Go ahead and make the changes with the dictionary as a source. Be bold. SchreiberBike | ⌨  01:43, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  The problem is, I don't know how many of those are root words. And I don't have the dictionary on hand to check. Crockett623 (talk) 08:31, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  I've got a copy. Can get to it in a bit if no one beats me to it. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed]  (she/they) 21:03, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Okay, I've made the change, sourced to pp. 22-23 and the back cover.  I couldn't find any source for the grand total of 181. Where do you see that? For now I've just said "a number of less-used words". Which might be better wording long-term anyways, since the nimi ku pi suli ala are not necessarily going to have the same usage levels in a few years. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed]  (she/they) 21:36, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:   I got the 181 from the jan misali video on the topic Crockett623 (talk) 22:24, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  While jan Misali is a very influential tokiponist, I'm not sure he counts as a reliable source for our purposes. (The Toki Pona Dictionary is a reliable source for statements about the language per WP:ABOUTSELF.) I suppose I could go through the dictionary and count (as I did for the tally of new nimi ku suli), but giving an explicit total could wrongly imply that that number is more important or set-in-stone than it actually is. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed]  (she/they) 01:23, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number of words 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: aren't they more commonly referred as "nimi ku lili"? i've only seen it used that way Paper2222 (talk) 17:42, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: As far as I know, nimi ku pi suli ala is the only term found in citable literature, namely Lang (2021:23). Established usage may change over time, but that still requires a reliable source rather than personal observation. Love —LiliCharlie (talk) 18:03, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  I edited the wording a bit to be more factual and less confusing to people who are used to the "nimi ku lili" term. From "words called nimi ku pi suli ala" I changed it to "words which Lang called nimi ku pi suli ala in her book". Spenĉjo (talk) 13:40, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  nimi ku pi suli ala 

message: Is it appropriate to call "toki pona" a stylization, when Toki Pona orthography does not use capital letters except as part of names? It seems more appropriate to say that it's how the name is written in Latin characters in the language.Ithinkiplaygames (talk) 17:52, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with you. This from Oxford dictionary blog  "Incidentally, toki pona itself translates as ‘talk good’ – and pona also means ‘simple’. In Lang’s philosophy, simplicity and goodness are one and the same." suggests to me that toki pona isn't a stylisation of Toki Pona. Looking at Romanization_of_Japanese it doesn't say that it is stylised as romanji but that it is 'sometimes referred to in Japanese as rōmaji ' so maybe we could say 'refered to as toki pona in the language' or similar wording which is a little less clunky. Vanteloop (talk) 18:53, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Maybe "Toki Pona (rendered toki pona when writing in the language," with an explanatory footnote regarding that capitals are used for proper names only? Ithinkiplaygames (talk) 21:52, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Looks good to me. I say be bold and make the change. Vanteloop (talk) 00:08, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Stylised" 

message: I am new to editing and wanted to ask. A very short article for Sonja Lang exists in Spanish and has some basic information about her that the English Toki Pona one doesn't have.
Should an English Sonja Lang article be made or should that information be included in the Toki Pona one? (I have a direct translation of the Spanish one as a personal draft)
Also, please correct me about wikipedia etiquette if there's something I should know. Diegox6 (talk) 14:16, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sonja Lang Article 

message: I have pinged the editors at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women in Red/Archive 112#Draft:Sonja Lang and some of the editors at [ Sonja Lang].
In March, after looking through some WP:WPWIR lists, I found an page whose subject I found reasonably notable, so I began to draft and draft. Since I could not trust myself to create content directly, I created the page in draftspace until I could submit it for possible inclusion. However, I found out that the article actually existed before, and was redirected back as a BLP1E. To avoid this mistake, I decided to start a discussion at WT:WIR to check for some community input. A rough consensus emerged that it was barely above WP:GNG, and as such barely merited its own article.
In April, I had submitted the draft, and EpicPupper published it into the mainspace in May. It had a brief life before Vanished user 5747731753 redirected it back just under a day ago, citing WP:1E and WP:BIO. Now, I am here. I'm not going to revert Vanished user 5747731753's edit; I want to create another consensus on this page. Thank you. — 3PPYB6 — TALK — CONTRIBS — 01:48, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I am not sure why you are unwilling to revert Vanished user 5747731753's edit and take a discussion to the talk page. We don't need to form another consensus. Their comment cites WP:Bold, i.e. they were acting alone and without consensus. I have reverted and asked them to discuss it if they disagree. SusunW (talk) 14:31, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

text: Thanks for the ping. Sonja Lang definitely appears in a significant amount of coverage, but most of that coverage talks about Sonja Lang only to the extent that it's important to Toki Pona. It's definitely more than trivial mentions, though. I am very softly in favor of Sonja Lang's notability.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by QoopyQoopy (talk • contribs) 15:08, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

text: Noting that I saw this discussion, but would like to step aside to allow for other editors to engage. 🐶 EpicPupper (he/him | talk) 16:26, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sonja Lang re-redirected 

message: https://github.com/PaulieGlot/lipu-sewi Is the first and most popular active Bible translation group, me included, and I am wondering if it could get a spot in the wiki, not sure where but it might be nice to see it on the page. E1.ias1 (talk) 22:41, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Is there any secondary coverage of it? If so, it could be included in a sentence. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 18:24, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Add Bible (In progress as a link/something that has a description on it 

message: I'm looking at the subsection on the poem, and the source states . Are we sure that the poem is released under terms compatible with Wikipedia's CC license? If not, is there any poem we could use that is? — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 18:29, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I can ask someone on the toki pona Discord server to publish a poem here under a free license. Ca talk to me! 00:36, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

text: The edit history shows that the poem was added by a newcomer without anything to indicate that its creator have given permission. I'll contact the poem' creator Sonja Lang to see if she wants to publish the poem in a free license. Ca talk to me! 09:28, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Poem copyright 

message: today, Sonja released a new Official Toki Pona. as it's still very early, there are few secondary sources about it, here are the ones currently available:
* su on sona pona (Toki Pona wiki)
* Video and interview of Sonja by Oats Jenkins
hopefully there will be more in the relases, such as from
* other content creators on YouTube
* lipu tenpo magazine (next issue currently near publishing)
Juwan (talk) 19:39, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't believe that either of these is a usable source for WP:V. The first is user-generated content and the second is self-published social media with a layer of Sonja talking about her own project, about which she is neither an independent source nor a secondary one. Largoplazo (talk) 20:18, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I am aware that citing other wikis are not allowed, but it is good if other editors see what there already is available. for the second one, dang bad luck ig. Juwan (talk) 15:13, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''su'' 

message: :
It appears to me that you mistakenly applied the verifiability requirements for sources, which are cited in support of statements made in the body of an article, to the links to resources in a final section External links. The criteria for extenal links are much more lax. The videos of the RobWords channel cover a variety of topics and the video on Toki Pona is clearly well researched, informative, and not in any way fancruft. The videos are produced and presented by Rob Watts, who is not a professional linguist, but formally a newsreader, reporter and presenter in the UK on BBC radio, now working in Berlin as a reporter for DW-TV (and occasionally BBC World Service).  --Lambiam 12:25, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Since no further objections have been raised in almost two weeks, I'm reinstating the external link.  --Lambiam 21:30, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links 

message: When i view the article preview (on mobile. canno confirm on desktop) there's what seems to be an emoticon / ;) / after "Toki Pona". Is this supposed to happen? Telaso1 (talk) 05:13, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: This seems to be a bug in the way page previews are generated! It's supposed to hide everything within parenthesis (brackets). But instead of counting bracket pairs and removing everything between "(rendered as" and "/ˈtoʊki ˈpoʊnə/)", it goes from the first opening bracket ( to the first closing bracket ). So the "; English: /ˈtoʊki ˈpoʊnə/)" displays when it shouldn't, but translation/pronounciation templates are also skipped so what's left is "; )". I've gone ahead and marked the whole bracketed section as noexcerpt so it definitely shouldn't display in previews anymore. Thanks for reporting this, it was a fun puzzle to solve! twotwos (talk) 22:47, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: @Twotwos Your welcome! Telaso1 (talk) 22:52, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalised article preview 

message: Chapter 'Provenance' has almost only the word origins' page on tokipona.org as its reference. However, it was apparently a wiki page. It seems that Sonja Lang has never released an etymological list of Toki Pona. I had tried to look for more reliable sources of Toki Pona's word origins, but failed. I wonder what we should do to the chapter. CuSO4, who non-natively speaks English 22:44, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reliability of chapter 'Provenance' 

message: I understand that the file mentioned is the most reliable source for a speaker count, but the toki pona Subreddit (is 'subreddit' a proper noun?) alone has 20 thousand members, and the Discord server has 14 thousand more. I'm certain not all of those people are speakers, but these are indicators that the number is far higher than "500–5000". ThaNook (talk) 00:16, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: We're to use more reliable sources, even if they're not that new. Subreddit population is too suspicious to be used as a reference to speaker count. CuSO4, who non-natively speaks English 14:52, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Speaker Count