Talk:Flag of the United States/Archive 1

message: Having to do with the specifications of the flag
=== Image size ===
Would the majority of the Wikipedian community be willing to reduce the size of this flag image to, say, no more than two-thirds what it is now?  I assume it's a function of the refresh rate on my old monitor (like the flashing light in The Andromeda Strain that triggered the seizure), but this large flag gives me vertigo, and I had not had any trouble with the smaller one that was here before.  Since I think the effect has to do with the size of the stripes, and we can't go larger, I'm asking that we go enough smaller to throw my monitor rate (or my brain rate, if that's the problem) that's causing it out of sync with the stripes so I don't get dizzy and queasy looking at it.  (I'm assuming that if it's happening to me, it's happening to a few other people, too, but that may not be true.)  We wouldn't lose any information by it, but (I hope) I could lose the discomfort. -- isis 23:45 Oct 14, 2002 (UTC)
:It is a little wide but there is no text flowing around. But the image use policy does say to generally not have images wider that 400 pixels so  I will resize it down to 400 pixels wide and see if that helps. --mav
::You will have to hit refresh to see the new image, but how is that? Still have the funny screen problem? --mav
:::Anyone think it could stand to be redone to use the new 'thumnail box' for images?
====Proportions (from )====
*The executive order listing proportions can be found here . Look to the far bottom of the page
--Jacobolus 06:46, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I copied a larger version from the CIA world factbook. Press CTRL F5 on the page and tell me what you think of that one. --Jiang 22:34, 24 Nov 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: Details

message: Would the majority of the Wikipedian community be willing to reduce the size of this flag image to, say, no more than two-thirds what it is now?  I assume it's a function of the refresh rate on my old monitor (like the flashing light in The Andromeda Strain that triggered the seizure), but this large flag gives me vertigo, and I had not had any trouble with the smaller one that was here before.  Since I think the effect has to do with the size of the stripes, and we can't go larger, I'm asking that we go enough smaller to throw my monitor rate (or my brain rate, if that's the problem) that's causing it out of sync with the stripes so I don't get dizzy and queasy looking at it.  (I'm assuming that if it's happening to me, it's happening to a few other people, too, but that may not be true.)  We wouldn't lose any information by it, but (I hope) I could lose the discomfort. -- isis 23:45 Oct 14, 2002 (UTC)
:It is a little wide but there is no text flowing around. But the image use policy does say to generally not have images wider that 400 pixels so  I will resize it down to 400 pixels wide and see if that helps. --mav
::You will have to hit refresh to see the new image, but how is that? Still have the funny screen problem? --mav
:::Anyone think it could stand to be redone to use the new 'thumnail box' for images?
====Proportions (from )====
*The executive order listing proportions can be found here . Look to the far bottom of the page
--Jacobolus 06:46, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image size 

message: *The executive order listing proportions can be found here . Look to the far bottom of the page
--Jacobolus 06:46, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Proportions (from [[Image_talk:Us_flag_large.png]])

message: I've altered the colors to meet US government specifications.  The US flag is a great deal darker in color than people realize.  Here it is :Image:Us flag large colorspec.png, so you can take a look and see if you want to replace the very bright version on the wiki page with something closer to the proper colors Dogface
:I copied a larger version from the CIA world factbook. Press CTRL F5 on the page and tell me what you think of that one. --Jiang 22:34, 24 Nov 2003 (UTC)
thread_title:  Color specifications 

message: The following is quoted text:
The official regulation, which I just tracked down at the Defense Technology Information Center website http://www.dtic.mil is General Services Administration "Federal Specification, Flag, National, United States of America and Flag, Union Jack," DDD-F-416E, dated November 27, 1981. It specifies the colors by reference to "Standard Color Cards of America" maintained by the Color Association of the United States, Inc. These are:
*Cable No. 70180    Old Glory Red
*Cable No. 70001    White
*Cable No. 70075    Old Glory Blue
Joe McMillan, 25 January 2000
Old Glory Red (PMS 193C), White, and Old Glory Blue (PMS 281C)
(From: http://www.fotw.us/flags/us.html)
According to this site  these colors in RGB are:
*Old Glory Red: BF0A30
*Old Glory Blue: 002868
—Cantus…☎ 09:03, Jan 31, 2005 (UTC)
----
The official colors given by the US Embassy in London :
*Old Glory Red: PMS 193C (Solid Color, Coated) = RGB 191, 10, 48 = BF0A30 
*Old Glory Blue: PMS 281C = RGB 0, 40, 104 = 002868 
*White = RGB 255, 255, 255 = FFFFFF 
--Jacobolus 23:48, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Color specifications 2 (from [[Image_talk:Us_flag_large.png]]) 

message: Should we not include the Navy Jack ("Dont tread on Me") Is was adopted during the revolution, officially used by the Navy and Continental Congress prior to 1777. The "Dont tread on me" also had the stripes before the congress adopted the first official flag with the stripes. This is relevant to the origin of the flag or at least first use of the stripes. This flag has a lot of unofficial history as well. 207.211.43.44 12:02, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Navy Jack 

message: Is the United States flag the national flag that has changed the most number of times? We must have changed it at least ten times to add in new stars. Kent Wang 05:13, 29 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Dunno if it's the most, but I just noted there have been 26 changes over the years.  Tempshill 19:16, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yup.  I just added pictures.  It sure is a lot of changes.  Lots of the flags had no real official pattern for the stars either, so while the ones I put there are the most common (Military, etc), there were lots of other designs in concentric rings, big star shapes, etc. --Jacobolus 01:54, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Most changed flag? 

message: === Cuba ===
How come Cuba's(a communist nation) flag is influenced by US' flag ??
:Cuba wasn't communist in 1902. --Zundark 12:34 27 May 2003 (UTC)
=== The Great Seal ===
The flag was based partially on the shield of arms depicted on the Great Seal of the United States; - isn't it the other way around? RickK 03:13, 18 Nov 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: Questions

message: The flag was based partially on the shield of arms depicted on the Great Seal of the United States; - isn't it the other way around? RickK 03:13, 18 Nov 2003 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Great Seal 

message: Is there any reason why the US Army has the Flag
inverted on the soldiers' right arm (stars to the left)?
Also, when the Flag is hung as a tapestry (stripes vertical),
the stars are to the left, not to the right, which it should
be if the Flag is rotated 90° clockwise?
CS Miller 12:55, Apr 29, 2005 (UTC)
The reason, as I understand it, is that US troops are considered always to be "on the advance," and as such the flag on their shoulders is worn to look as if it were on a flag pole that is moving forward (with the wind pushing the flag to look "backwards").
El Draque 16:59, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mirrored flag 

message: http://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/ar670-1.pdf
http://uscode.house.gov/download/title_04.shtml
 §10. Modification of rules and customs by President
       Any rule or custom pertaining to the display of the flag of the United States of America,
       set forth herein, may be altered, modified, or repealed, or additional rules with respect
       thereto may be prescribed, by the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States,
       whenever he deems it to be appropriate or desirable; and any such alteration or additional
       rule shall be set forth in a proclamation
http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/more/flagqs.htm
    To wear our country's flag properly, the field of stars should be 
    worn closest to your heart. Thus, if your patch is to be worn on
    your LEFT sleeve, use a left flag. For patches worn on your RIGHT
    sleeve, use a "right" or "reversed field" flag. Since the law does
    not specifically address the positioning of the patch, a decision is
    left to the discretion of the organization prescribing the wear.
    Some elect to use the "left" flag on both sleeves. [Note: many 
    states and cities have ordinances pertaining to the use of the flag; 
    you may wish to contact the Attorney General of your state or the
    City Attorney's office regarding this matter.] If you are planning
    to wear only one patch, it is recommended that you wear a "left"
    flag on your left sleeve. Military guidelines once specified that in
    support of joint or multi-national operations, the "right" flag is
    worn on the right sleeve, 1/4" below the shoulder seam or 1/8" below
    any required unit patches. Now, this has been made a permanent
    requirement (Class A uniform excepted). Source: Army Website FAQs
This [artical] seems to imply that US forces used to look like cowards with a non-reversed flag on the right sholder of thier uniforms.
Gam3 15:23, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reversed flag on service personal 

message: No circular re-directs, please! 66.245.2.114 17:30, 15 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Circular re-direct 

message: Hi, I made the betsy ross flag in the same ratio (10:19) as all the other flags, but I think probably most flags that were made during the revolution were in fact shorter than that.  Should I leave them all the same size for consistency, or should I reduce the Betsy Ross flag, and if so, to what proportion.  Also, should the Betsy Flag have stars moved closer together?  Let me know what you all think at my talk page. --Jacobolus 12:33, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Betsy Ross Flag proportion 

message: I have removed the Taiwanese flag from the Flags with similar design section of the article for the following reasons:
#There are no stars on the flag that are similar to those on the US flag. The star that is there is based on an indigenous Chinese design from the 19th century.
#There are no stripes on the flag.
#The fact that a Canton is in the top left corner is not indicative of the flag being of similar design. Many flags have Cantons, and these are not based upon the US flag.
#The fact that the flag has Red, White and Blue colours is not indicative of a basis upon the US flag.
For more information, see:
*The Taiwanese Flag
*Blue Sky with a White Sun
*Flag terminology
*Flag of Australia - a flag with a canton... but you try telling Australians that their flag is based on the US one!!! ;)
--One Salient Oversight 05:17, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Removal of Taiwanese Flag

message: http://www.magazinusa.com/lv2/hist/i_hist_flag.asp
-- 06:57, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I just looked at the above link.  The site is in German — but it shows several historical U.S. flags, including some designs which do not appear in this article. — DLJessup 13:07, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Interesting historical flag reference 

message: It's the missing piece of the flag evolution section.
There's an example of it at
Flagspot
I'm not very good with the GIMP, and I keep messing up.
Two points to remember:
*use the offical color palette mentioned above, so that it matches the other US flags displayed here
*The blazon should match the old British Union flag, not the present one which wasn't created until 1801, i.e., there should be no red in the diagonal bars (bends if you want to get technical).  I'm attaching an example.
Thanks to anyone who can do this! --Jpbrenna 02:48, 21 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Can someone make a US Grand Union Flag image? 

message: I noticed the appearance of the East India flag in the article, but no mention is made of the possible (perhaps probable) derivation of the Grand Union flag from the East India flag.  Is this an implied rejection of that hypothesis or an oversight?
El Draque 17:03, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  East India Co. Flag 

message: My experience in the U.S. has been that private citizens and private businesses frequently have the flag on display year round. As I am writing this, a huge flag is flying outside my office building; at home, my nieghbor has a flag attached to his house next to his front door, and neither of these things seem at all unusual.
This is significantly different from other democratic countries I have been to, in which you hardly ever see the flag, except at official goverment sites and events.
Do others agree with my experience? Happyharris 21:29, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: In the UK, I have never come across individuals flying any flags at home with the exception of "bunting" on occasions such as a royal jubilee or wedding. Private companies may have flagpoles which are normally either empty or fly the company logo - again a Union Flag may be flown at a royal jubilee etc. Government institutions and tourist attractions often fly flags. Similarly I haven't come across many flags in other European countries, but I have limited experience of them. I have seen flags on display in the US however. -- SGBailey 11:26, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The only other country I have been to where you see the national flag so often is Canada. In Europe, you generally only see the national flag at government buildings, hotels, sporting events and political demonstrations. In the Czech Republic, even schools don't fly the national flag -- instead, they display the national coat of arms. In North America, most institutions, office buildings, stadiums, etc., fly the flag year-round, and many households do as well. I don't know why there's such a cultural difference between the continents. I suppose there's no particular reason why one should fly the flag year-round at one's home. But for most people, the flag is like a Xmas tree -- it makes them feel warm and fuzzy. Flying the flag in America is generally not considered a political statement. -- Mwalcoff 07:51, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think flying the flag in the U.S. is just considered an act of patriotism. Not saying that other countries are unpatriotic I just think Americans show it by flying the flag. I've been to the Far East and did not see country flags flown very often, if at all, except at government offices, etc (with the exception of Korea). I live in Texas and I know many Texans fly the state flag as much as they do the U.S. flag. I've also been to almost every state in the union and regular Texans seem to fly their state flag more often than others (or paint it on their barn roofs or sides of the barn or house). Maltmomma (chat)  15:46, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Traditions: Most homeowners reserve flag display for civic holidays - is this true? 

message: The Flag Etiquette section seems to be a direct copy of the text at USFlag.org.  Maybe they copied from here?  If that is not true, can this section instead be linked or paraphrased?  Ehlkej 03:20, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flag etiquette section -- Copyright violation?  

message: At a select few places the Flag is flown continuously, by act of Congress,-  usally the 50 star flag. At the former Middlebrook encampment site, however, it is a 13 star flag. Is this the only "official" 13 star flag? Are there any other sites where by act of Congress a historical flag is flown?
Ekem 23:50, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The 2 flags at Fort McHenry and Flag House Square in Baltimore are 15 star/15 stripe flags. Ekem 16:19, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Official historical flags flown continuously

message: Could we remove the upside down image of the flag from the section "4.1 Standards of Respect"?  The page is not actually in any distress and it should not be hard to extrapolate what the flag would look like upside down.  It's almost like the page says, "Don't do this unless there is trouble or you want to disrespect the flag, and, hey, look, we just did it."
If no one registers disagreement, I will remove it in a couple of days.  James Aguilar 07:56, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I see no special reason to remove it; it illustrates the point and doesn't really hurt anyone's feelings.  ナイトスタリオン ✉ 09:45, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Upside down image of the flag 

message: Do we realy need it? As far as I can tell it contributes nothing. --Theredstarswl 07:20, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed it. There's a place in wikipedia for a discussion of the method of safely burning a flag in protest, but the page for anyone particular flag is not the place to do that. Flag desecration might be. --Shunpiker 12:34, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Burning section 

message: An English book I havebeen reading says that the stars and stripes coat-of-arms actually belonged to the Lawrence family. Washington, who knew the family, had a signet ring with their arms on it. The arms can be seen at the church at Steeple, Dorset.
Dorset Curiosities, Dovecote Press Publications (1986)
Anyone heard this version? Jameswilson 03:00, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Washington family coat-of-arms or not? 

message: Would it be wrong to say that this is true for all US embassies? Leftist 21:25, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Places where the American flag is displayed continuously 

message: Edits by anonymous editor 69.234.138.36 seem to be contradictory.  Is flying the US flag upside down a signal of distress or not?  As far as I can tell, the user just has a personal opinion to voice.  If no one objects, I will remove the material added concerning distress. Coleca 03:56, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edits to Etiquette