Talk:The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion/Archive 2

message: I have modified the fansites and external links based on the following criteria.
By posting a fan site section and not allowing others to do so presupposes a violation of Article 4 What Should be Linked to, it would lead wiki readers to believe that one site is the sole fan site. This classification alone already violates Article 12 Links to Normally be Avoided (Fanlistings are generally not informative and should not ordinarily be included). 
I would also encourage the review of Article 11 - Links that are added to promote a site, that primarily exist to sell products or services, with objectionable amounts of advertising, or that require payment to view the relevant content, colloquially known as external link spamming. I believe the prevailing opinion is that single site that encourages PayPal donations is no different from any other site that carries advertisements.
I truly appreciate the effort of all members to create a complete and resource rich OblivionWiki, but violating some rules and then forbidding others to do so is an unkind and arbitrary policy. Fansites should not have to be an all or nothing category, or a monopoly as it was until recently. Dickdarkly 18:08, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't agree. WP:EL says "adding a link to one major fan site may be appropriate". This means: zero or one. Adding dozens of fan sites is not useful and against the guidelines. This article was fully compliant with the guidelines, before your edit. There was no violation of 12, since that site didn't contain a fanlistings (list of fans). There was no violation of 4, since a fan site can be neutral in itself. That's why I am removing all fan sites, including the one that was there before, until we find a better solution. This is still inside the guidelines. If you don't like them, make a proposal at Wikipedia talk: External links and change them. Until then, don't violate the guidelines again. Mushroom (Talk) 18:09, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I see that you removed the links for the fan sites, and I guess the 'all or nothing' decision has been made for us. Except that I doubt that you reviewed how useful for the Oblivion community each of these sites were. Since there clearly needs to be a distinction made between Fan Sites and Mod Sites, please make a note of where I can put all these useful mod resources that offer so much to we loyal fans of the game. I can't think of anything more appropriate for the Oblivionwiki than to have an ctive list of where to find mods. It just seems that some people here are trying to control it for their own nefarious purposes. Dickdarkly 20:09, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I would once again support removing fansites all together. That way, there is less to argue about. --Voidvector 15:54, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ditto. This is some serious stupidity and has got to go. --Phorteetoo 18:44, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fan Sites and External Links 

message: The critical reaction section is far too negative. While it does acknowledge the good reviews at the beginning, the following parapgraphs are all about weaknesses. Considering the nearly universally positive reviews the game received, there should be a new paragraph on the game's strengths to counterbalance all the negatives already present. Zeus1234 18:47, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The critical reaction section seems fairly balanced to me. It makes it clear (as does the intro) that the game was very well received. Generally speaking, it's common that the critical reaction section will speak a lot about the negatives for two reasons. 1 is that most of the rest of the article generallys talks about in a largely positive sense. 2 there isn't actually that much to say when your talking about postives. It's easy to point out specific things that people find wrong with the game. However when it comes to saying the game is good, you can usually only say things in an overvall sense (e.g. story is good, gameplay is good etc). Nil Einne 19:41, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree, its far to negative, I reconmend cropping the neagtive half way so that way its balanced, I've made a start. The Shadow of the Colossus page for example is a featured article and speaks mostly about the positive. User:Stabby Joe
In the German version for example approx. 10% of all male main-characters were referred to as "sie" or "ihr" ("she" or "her"). The poor quality extends to the Spanish and Italian translations.
Okay, this is a bit mangled from the German. "Sie" can be a honorific as in "Sie haben aber glueck gehabt", and "ihr" can be plural as in "Was habt ihr denn angestellt?" but in the context up there it does not make sense. In both cases the titles are gender agnostic. "Sie" may sound to an english speaker like "she" but it is by far not the same. Someone who has a german version of the game should probably clarify this (I don't have it, I only have the US version so I can't confirm this). Snowrunner1974 20:40, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Critical Reaction 

message: I added back in the 11/20 deleted "AI" and "Changes" sections. They were removed yesterday without explanation. As someone who doesn't play Oblivion, I found the information in those sections interesting. The information about the AI NPCs following through on their programming in novel ways was even more fascinating. Both sections are important to understanding everything, including the non-virtual aspects, of the game.Jodyw1 21:58, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  AI/Changes Restored 

message: I suggest that someone put a "cannot be edited by new or unregistered users" on the article.  I would think that it would cut down on the vandalism by quite a bit. praetor_alpha 14:26, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Request added to Wikipedia:Requests for page protection. Scoo 16:22, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not an admin but it seems to me this is unnecessary. The vandalism isn't that bad IMHO. Was a bit excessive on the 20th for some reason but has died down a bit now. Furthermore it seems to me one of the bigger problems is no one is bothering to warn and block the vandals. It's also questionable whether many of the edits are vandalism or just POV edits by users who don't know better Nil Einne 20:01, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I concur, though I am a new user and very much liked the elder scrolls series. I'm afriad that I'll accidentally delet or change something that I didn't mean to, I say adding the lock would help. Dagorlad 3 20:43, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism control 

message: It's now the 22st or later everywhere in world. Was the expansion to be released on the 21st released or not? Nil Einne 19:34, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is available on Amazon, not sure about local stores. --Voidvector 20:58, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I actually saw it a few days ago in my local Best Buy (Toledo, Ohio.) So it is in stores. Umlautbob 04:29, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Expansion 

message: The spoiler section has no end. Since I don't want to actually read any spoilers, I'll let others fix that. Nil Einne 19:43, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. praetor_alpha 01:25, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spoilers 

message: I realize that Elder Scrolls is inspired by many different things, but am I the only one who noticed a very strong similarity to Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire series?  The only specific example I can name off the top of my head is ASoIaF's Summer Islands vs. Oblivion's Summerset Islands.  I've only played Oblivion, so I cannot say anything about the rest of the series, but I could not help but think of Martin's books when playing.  It may just be the medieval fantasy theme.  Any thoughts?  24.177.140.72 20:48, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  George R.R. Martin influence 

message: hey, i need help with scripting in the cs for oblivion
can anyone help?Animefreak724 04:08, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  TES construction set 

message: There's a giant picture of a stop hand to the right of the article. Please delete it.--Thezeus18 02:11, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stop Hand 

message: What's up with that "Money Glitch"?  It looks like it's spam.  Can somebody verify it and/or correct or delete it? 211.29.178.231 04:52, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They did in new copys if you have the one rated teen it has three glitches the one i use is if you are a vampier you get the cure and give it to the count of skingrad and he says reward and he at first will give you 500 gold each time you click and when you run back just sneak into his room and ask him it will work even if you are tresspassing. Another money glitch is after completeing the vimpire cure and the count will give you money... just keep asking him for the reward and you will be rich in no time. [[Tridentdc24 20:53, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Money Glitch 

message: This is elder scrolls expanshon i don't know much about it but you can create your own guild with npc i think and its on ebay and it came out in europe and go to bethsdasoftworks.com for more info
[[Tridentdc24 20:56, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know anything about this "create your own guild" and I've got it, I think you've been mislead. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Stabby Joe (talk • contribs) 13:49, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Knights of the nine! 

message: This article used to be so large and informative, now it's been cut down to nothing.
I know some people like lean clean articles but this article sucks now, it has no information at all. It has been cut down so much there is hardly any interesting information. I thought the part about AI problems was great.
For people who already know the basics of TES I think we need to re add the information, I kow the playable races and the storyline but some of the information here is very informative.
Please consider revising. TostitosAreGross 16:59, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not to be rude, but what you're looking for is here-> .  Oblivion at Wikipedia is not for Elder scrolls fans.  It is for people without knowledge of Oblivion looking for such.  All information in this page needs to be verifiable and notable, per Wikipedia guidelines.  Notable does not mean notable in the world of Oblivion, it means notable in the world of Earth.  The UESP wiki has articles on every single quest, and articles on interesting things in general (try the easter egg page, it's cool).  Cruft is going to be removed from this article, and unfortunately, that means that I'm not done yet removing things, though some will come back in a different form.  --PresN 17:31, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would actually like to congratulate PresN on nobly cutting out the listy, unpleasant, uncited, and trivial masses of data from this article. I'd wanted to do it myself, but I feared I'd needlessly aggravate others, and I didn't have anything to make up for the material I'd have been cutting out. I quite near considered giving PresN a barnstar, though I thought better of it. When PresN has replaced the fat with new meat, I'll probably give one to him. Good work PresN, and good luck! Geuiwogbil 23:23, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Guild list or no guild list?  Is the list necessary for informational purposes when they all have entries that will describe them.  The article certainly was much cleaner with them removed.  There seems to be an awful lot of information on the points of the game that go outside of the encyclopedic entry. -- Death666 16:15, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  What the hell happened to this article? 

message: if you go to the imperial city there is a guy if u kill him,loot everything but the gold then loot him again and you get 100 gold forever from his body. Peacemaker456 16:40, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Money glitch 2 

message: I have re-added the Unscripted A.I. goofs because they are funny :P.
I dont know how they originally were deleted, but i am going to add them again.
This is what i have re-added.
""This has required massive testing, but has even greater long-term 
flexibility for future NPC AI as well as testing with PAC AI for 
further developments.
The following are examples of unexpected behavior discovered during 
early testing:
1. One character was given a rake and the goal "rake leaves"; another 
was given a broom and the goal "sweep paths," and this worked 
smoothly. Then they swapped the items, so that the raker was given a 
broom and the sweeper was given the rake. In the end, one of them 
killed the other so he could get the proper item.
2. Another test had an on-duty NPC guard become hungry. The guard 
went into the forest to hunt for food. The other guards also left to 
arrest the truant guard, leaving the town unprotected. The villager 
NPCs then looted all of the shops, due to the lack of law enforcement.
3. In another test a minotaur was given a task of protecting a 
unicorn. However, the minotaur repeatedly tried to kill the unicorn 
because he was set to be an aggressive creature.
4. In one Dark Brotherhood quest, the player can meet up with a shady 
merchant who sells skooma, an in-game drug. During testing, the NPC 
would be dead when the player got to him. The reason was that NPCs 
from the local skooma den were trying to get their fix, didn't have 
any money, and so were killing the merchant to get it.
5. While testing to confirm that the physics models for a magical 
item known as the "Skull of Corruption," which creates an evil copy 
of the character/monster it is used on, were working properly, a 
tester dropped the item on the ground. An NPC immediately picked it 
up and used it on the player character, creating a copy of him that 
proceeded to kill every NPC in sight.
Bethesda has been hard at work to fix these issues, balancing an 
NPC's needs against his penchant for destruction so that the game 
world still functions in a usable fashion.""
Deimoss 19:24, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's been removed again? I found this very interesting and contributing to the article, as it shows what Bethesda was aiming for and what eventually became of it. 57.68.10.185 15:39, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Hah, I don't work for Bethesda.  Anyways, sure it's interesting. It still doesn't belong in the article.  It is not in the game, as the AI was scaled back in development.  It is also, incidentally, a copyvio, as it's inherently obvious that you're just copying it from the preview article that talked about it (I read it back in the day, PCGamer I think?).  A sentence or two about how they had originally planned to have a much more detailed AI before scaling it back would be fine.  A large section of anecdotes about how the AI kept messing up in development is not fine at all.  --PresN 20:30, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A.I Goofs 

message: Why aren't they making a Wii port? They said its hardware is not powerful enough for it but they can make a psp port?--Falcon866 15:46, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  wii port  

message: My friend told me about a multiplayer mod for Oblivion for Windows. I don't know of its existence, but was wondering if this is true. Here's the gist of what he told me:
Basically you run around with one other person, and they can help you out and show you things that you haven't found. But to each other you just look like a normal guard, they can't see all your items and such.
If this is true, I'd like to know more about it, even though I have the Xbox 360 version. I was interested in this because if it is true, then Bethesda could probably make a multiplayer mod themselves, even if it would be a little different. Vicious203 18:47, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Multiplayer Mod? 

message: I think it would be nice if each city had a bank so that you could any uneeded equipment into the bank so that if you needed it later you go to a bank and get it.
What do you think?
:The talk page is for discussion about the article, not for general discussion about Oblivion (please see WP:TALK). If you would like to know there are mods that give you areas to store equipment. --kenobi.zero 06:38, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Banks???

message: Could someone please put this up for a possible peer review for a good status since its made plenty of developments since last time, I'm just not sure how to do so. Stabby Joe 18:13, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: done. --PresN 15:21, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Peer Review 

message: I "passed" this article for GA status because it meets all criteria, although the screenshot needs a fair use rationale. This could very well be the 2,000th GA, as well, so congrats! Keep on taking advantage of the peer review feedback before submitting to FAC. — Deckiller 23:41, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I knew we could up its status (I don't know how to do peers reviews doh), now all we need to do is extend the development sections and it could even be featured. 86.20.132.248 11:47, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Check out the peer review up top, everything Krator says in there needs to be done before we even have a prayer of getting to Featured.  --PresN 20:43, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Differences being listed with another game and suggesting people would not like it is something for game reviewers to do, not for wiki articles. Seriously for all the others of you out there who hate this game don't vent it out on this article, cons are listed PLENTY enough as seen in other FEATURED articles. Stabby Joe 22:37, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: GA

message: The game genre should be changed to fantasy first person hacker:)
Seriously now, the game is far away from being a pure-bred rpg.
It is an action rpg and it should be pointed out so, there is no shame in that...
And it is usually for the best when there is a critiscism sector.
Check out this page  http://www.rpgcodex.com/content.php?id=129 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.74.242.23 (talk) 00:04, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Firstly the term first person should be good enough, second its classed by many as just RPG... whether or not a hybrid title should be put with that isn't anything major, and thirdly featured articles included positive and negative in the same reception section and it is currently fine. People who seem to want to put emphasis on critisism on an overall positivly recived game can go as for as vandilism/trolling. Development should be put into creation of the game (development section) to achive a feature status like other game articles. Stabby Joe 16:37, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh and that link you provided? Clear trolling from what appears to be a bias "We hate Oblivion" website and doesn't stand as credible source for this article. Stabby Joe 22:18, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You must be new to the internets if you think that his link is even remotely related to trolling. Either that or extremely stupid. (I'm guessing the latter)65.93.163.236 01:39, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well it hasn't been used so I'm pretty sure that it's not a very credible site to others here atleast, plus if you call someone stupid unprovoked then no one is going to take you seriously here. 86.20.132.248 23:18, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The game genre 

message: This was removed just recently under the claim that "most games are award-winning". That cannot be true. Moreover, the fact that the game is well received and awarded accolades on a widespread level, is given extensive treatment in the article itself. It would not be wrong or inaccurate to include this fact in the lead, although there may indeed be a better way to express it in less general terms such as "award-winning". Chensiyuan 02:23, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My argument against this (revision done) is that award winning films seem to do this alot EG so and so is an Academy Award winning etc, so whats the problem with a game that was indeed one of the major award winners in 2006? It had a citation next to the claim that listed EVERY SINGLE award Oblivion won, many of which NOT listed on this page.Stabby Joe 08:39, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Having "award-winning" in the lead

message: I don't think this section is necessary. Cedega enables many games to be played under Linux, and other games officially supported by TransGaming such as Battlefield 2142 and Need for Speed: Carbon don't have this section. Should it be removed? --kenobi.zero 07:09, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Playable under Linux section 

message: "The ESRB chose to re-rate the game due to the discovery of nude textures included deep within the game's files, which were only accessible through a third-party modification for the Windows version, the availability on the internet of several other independently created third-party mods for the Windows version featuring full nudity and other adult content not included in the original game files, and due to more blood and gore than was revealed to ESRB"
I tried changing it to using semicolons because of the apositive, but it got changed back so I think I did something wrong.  As it stands this sentence is really long and confusing, but I'm not sure how to make it sound better.RageGarden 17:07, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I rewrote the sentence, is it any better now?  --PresN 04:05, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Awkward Sentence