Talk:Coast Salish languages

message: Some content here is more apt for discussions of "people"/tribe articles, not for a linguistic grouping.  To me this is properly a linguistic-group page and need not have the stuff about slavery, salmon etc. which properly belong on an ethnography-content page (see Wikipedia:Wikiproject Indigenous peoples of North America and consult tables and accompanying discussions.Skookum1 07:41, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow, you put a lot of work in here. Thanks. -- TheMightyQuill 09:24, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Is this a language or culture page?

message: There's a lot of issues you've raised I'd like to discuss, but the salient material here is what to do with the Coast Salish article page overleaf so I'll try not to engage on side-topics (any more than I usually do.  I've started a new section heading for ease of editing (but will be responding to text in the previous section).
Part of this spins off my own edit of the page to make it a language-group page only, at least in theory as some culture/ethnographic stuff is still in place (like the salmon and artwork sentence-paragraphs).  In the course of your replies concerning the official linguistics delineation, and your own comment that we shouldn't mix the Coast Salish language group with Coast Salish as a cultural identity/grouping, it seems that this points us in the direction of saying that "Coast Salish" has two meanings; one in linguistics, which used to include Nuxalk and Nehalem/Tillamook but has since been revised, and another meaning where the context is cultural/ethnographic.  Except that the Nuxalk are not similar so much to any nearby Salish people, other than those also taken up with the Kulturbund of the Northwest Coast "totem pole civilization"; the Comox, Squamish and Sechelt share in this, but not to the same degree as the Nuxalk; while the Straits Salish, Puget Sound and Sto:lo are/were not.  So what to do?  I think - because people without linguistics training - are going to come by looking for Bella Coola/Nuxalk in Coast Salish that it should be mentioned that this grouping was due to an older, now out-of-date definition.  A similar comment should maybe be added to the Salishan languages page (partly to avoid changes and re-interpretations such as the one I made...).
And it's not political correctness I've been concerned with so much as "cultural correctness", which includes heeding what the elders say, or at least bringing up their point of view on something even if it disagrees with professional academics; I've run head-on into culture conflicts of this kind and that's why I was sensitive and reacted the way I did; because I knew how sensitive the material is, and how touchy First Nations ethnographers are about how they are presented.  A similar problem, BTW, has come up with someone's recent expansion of Sahaptin people, which again is a language group now being treated as if it were a tribe, which it's not (at least not in terms of the article's new text, which is from the Catholic Encyclopedia and therefore - to me - highly suspect).  Same problem with Cowichan people (see Somena and Talk:Somena).
Lastly (for now, as I've got real-world stuff to do), I think it's a truism that "Coast Salish" has become an ethnic identifier for some First Nations people, say when quoted in print; easier to say that than try to get the media to accurately spell/name your own people's name; and also because many are mixed-First Nation, e.g. part Sneneymux, part Sto:lo, part Lummi or Songhees or whatever. So whether I or anybody else likes it or not, "Coast Salish" does have meaning outside the usage preferred/mandated by professional linguistics; exactly how to define the "other" page/meaning remains for us to work out, perhaps.  More comments on specific issues you raised later maybeSkookum1 22:09, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Possible split of page?

message: Links within headings are avoided to facilitate allowing the use of links to headings.  (Links to headings containing links can be problematic.)
The article is apparently originally the Queen's Canadian English; spellings corrections in accordance would be welcome.  --GoDot 00:22, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Style notes 

message: Could someone familiar with Coast Salish confirm that the reference to the name of Mount Arrowsmith from the reference source given with the BC Government as "The Indian name is Kulth-ka-choolth, meaning "jagged face"" is correct and is correctly referred to as Coast Salish? Thanks KenWalker | Talk 05:31, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no "Coast Salish" language - a common misperception because of the misuses of "Salish" by press and curriculum books over the years: it's a group of languages.  Around there it's almost definitely Hunquminum, which is the Island/Straits dialect of Halkemeylem; but it could possibly be Pentlatch or Comox.  All three are Coast Salish languages; it's a question of which one.Skookum1 20:40, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just a clarification - Hul'q'umi'num is the Halkomelem dialect spoken on Vancouver Island; Hunquminum is the 'Downriver'(Lower Fraser to Stave River) dialect and Halq'eméylem is the Upriver dialect. Therefore, Hul'q'umi'num would be the Halkomelem dialect spoken in the area of Mt. Arrowsmith, West of Nanaimo (Snuneymuxw) on Vancouver Island. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halkomelem_language. --MajeHTG (talk) 18:51, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confirmation of Place Name as Coast Salish 

message: Just noticed its expansion.  Seems pretty clear that a completely separate chronicle/timeline for BC is necessary, and this section should be titled clearly that it's a U.S. events timeline; the only common timeline would be up until 1846.  I almost added the "globalize" template here because of the increasing USAcentricity of this page; there should be a "CanCon.v.US" template or something, like the globalize tag but dealing with non-US North American issues, as various cross-border articles like this have problematic content/contexts (e.g. Oregon boundary dispute).  I'd imagine the same applies with Mexico.  Also, just checking before making the edit as it could be, like the Nuxalk/Bella Coola, that the Nehalem/Tillamook aren't Coast Salish even though they're on the coast, but they're definitely Salish and they're in Oregon, which isn't mentioned in the intro.Skookum1 19:24, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Re History section

message: Noticed this.  Actually, although I accept the Suquamish translation and usage, the real sense of oleman house in Chinook Jargon means "old building", even "run-down room" - oleman did not just mean "old man", it mean anything old and/or worn-out.Skookum1 21:20, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Oleman House <=> Old Man House 

message: As this article currently reads, it doesn't make much sense. Clearly a major part of it is on the subject "Coast Salish Languages," however, it also covers the culture and history of the Coast Salish peoples. It's probably not a bad idea to have such an article, as long as it continues to be clear that the Coast Salish comprise many First Nations. However, the content doesn't match its current title. I propose that we move the content to a new article entitled "Coast Salish" and create a redirect for "Coast Salish languages." This would be the reverse of what we have now, but it seems to fit better with the current content of the article. Comments? Sunray 03:14, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This has been suggested before on a few occasions.  No one voiced any opposition, but just some other idea's.  I say, let's do it.  It is very unclear for what the title suggests.  I agree with the proposed move.  OldManRivers 04:34, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: See here.  OldManRivers 04:36, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: O.K., so basic agreement. I like your suggestion for the names of the two articles and will proceed with that. Sunray 18:47, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've made the move to two articles. They will need further adjustments, but see what you think, so far. Sunray 19:55, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the move.  I've added the, well I don't know what to call it, at the top to make things a little easier to understand.  If this is to complicated it might have to go to a disambig page, but I think this will be fine.  I'll see how I can work it out so they become a bit more clearer on the different and do some adjustments.  Thanks again for the move.  OldManRivers 20:48, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Excellent work, guys. That split was long overdue. - TheMightyQuill 21:57, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Change of name for this article

message: Saw this in the table, had to look it up.......I'll link that to the Nanoose First Nation article is presently titled....but just to note that e.g. as with Cowichan Tribes being rendered as "Cowichan" there is no one community or people in that case e.g. Somena and others are different groups gathered under one band government; related groups such as Lyackson are defined by their current band government......in all cases linking the band government articles is questionable but since it's titled "communities" that can suffice for now......actual communities and their names is another matter...complicated subject throughout the region, more later.Skookum1 (talk) 11:52, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  "[[Snaw-naw-as]] = Nanoose Bay 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I am not aware of whether or not they are two different languages, or dialects of the same language. Perhaps if they are dialects, they should be merged into the same table, like others?  PersusjCP (talk) 20:36, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge Island Comox and Mainland Comox in table?