Talk:Lordi/Archive 2

message: I have created stubs on all the members of Lordi that didn't have articles exept for Ox: I haven't seen the sources for his real name, so I'll hold off writing a stub until I see them. Duke toaster 16:59, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd rather see articles created for the band characters, not the people behind them. They prefer anonymity and most of them don't have notability beyond Lordi.--JyriL talk 20:17, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: IMO they are notable. And it doesn't matter if they prefer anonymity. Besides, they don't have it any more, do they Duke toaster 10:29, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

text: You will likely be blocked if you continue to remove information from the article. ... discospinster talk 01:16, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

text: The real names of GWAR members are mentioned in their article. ... discospinster talk 02:21, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

text: No. We record what they want but we don't have to do what they want.Geni 11:25, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

text: 1.Wikipedia ia based in the US. 2.The names are already in the public domain and three No legal threats.Geni 12:48, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Well as and when someone comes up with a mechanism to drag us off to some kind of international court we will start to worry. Wikipedia is not a country. It doesn't apply to us.
Wikipedia is still held under international law isnt it? Laws do still apply here? If they havent given their names then why are they being posted? Just cos they are in the public domain, and neither confirmed or denied by the member,s they should be removed UNTIL confirmation by members has been given (UKLFC 13:33, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

text: The laws of the US state of florida. The sources of the information are pretty solid.Geni
But shouldnt the info come from the members themselves? And the state of Florida still hae to acknowledge international law that overrules Florida law does it not? (UKLFC 13:57, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

text: We take info from where ever we can get it. As for your attempt to apply the UN convention of human right please don't. you have said it isn't a legal threat so it doesn't matter.Geni 14:37, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

text: So you are makeing a legal threat? In any case since wikipedia's site host and ISP is the wikimedia foundation perhaps you would like to talk them them.Geni 16:44, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not a legal threat, as nowhere does he say that he will sue (and he even explicitly says he's not making a legal threat). What he's asking (or wants to ask) is whether the international law also applies in Florida, and whether Wikipedia follows those laws. It's a reasonable thing to ask, as that's where Wikipedia's main servers are based, and ignoring the law often has unwanted consequences. AFAIK there is no blanket policy of following the law, only policies about copyright, slander and libel, and in this case the chances of getting sued seem remote anyway. I'm not sure what either of you mean by the names being in public domain, as I'm not aware of any intellectual property laws that apply to people's names. -- Coffee2theorems | Talk 11:35, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

text: The information is relivant. It is reasonably noteable. We can source it. And people are interested in it (that last one isn't actualy required for inclusion in wikipedia but it is nice if they are). Wikipedia hosts content that quite a lot of people find far more upseting (eg this).Geni 00:52, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stubs created on other members. 

message: According to this section, Lordi is similar to six american bands and one australian band. Why? They don't sound american at all. Either we should carefully make this section unbiased, or we should remove it. I vote for removing it. --PsySine
I also think its the best to remove the section, most band articles don't have such a section. Surak 21:58, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed the section. The band's strong Kiss influence is obvious from the article itself anyway. Pasi 01:00, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think removal of this section is also a good idea. but now there is no reference to GWAR which is the one Original "Foam Latex Theatrical Heavy Rock Band". I think some historical reference is appropriate and worthwhile for any researcher. actually I think reference to other theatrical bands would be appropriate too like Oingo Boingo.--MadDogCrog 07:57, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Listing similar 'theatrical' bands makes more sense than just listing similar bands in general anyway. The GWAR reference is probably a good idea. Pasi 20:08, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Similar bands 

message: Thanks for adding Ox's. Will write stub on Ox. Duke toaster 10:21, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Real Names 

message: Just an observation : why do so few people sign their comments on this talk page? Duke toaster 10:22, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: New editors tend to not knwo how to do so.Geni 11:25, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I added , maybe that will help. —♦♦ SʘʘTHING(Я) 13:50, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please Sign Your Comments 

message: Only Mr. Lordi is originally from Rovaniemi. All the members live in Southern Finland, in Helsinki or nearby. Kita's from Vantaa, Ox's from Espoo (both sister cities or suburbs of Helsinki), Amen's from Mäntsälä and Axa's from Porvoo. --Lalli 18:49, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rovaniemi 

message: If someone can come up with a better name for this section, please do change it. I belive the separation is necessary tho; the three last paragraphs of the costumes section are clearly about the media response to the costumes, not the costumes themselves. Pasi 00:57, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  'Unmasked by Media' 

message: I think we need to work on the article's lead. Problems:
- "They are mostly known for their unusual monster costumes and lyrical themes." This isn't really true anymore. True, the next sentence mentions the Eurovision Song Contest but it's a new paragraph. I'd like to find a way to say that the contest introduced Lordi to a lot of people who had not heard about them earlier. All this needs to maintain a NPOV of course.
- "Some controversy with the band does exist, however. Many members of the metal community see Lordi's use of monster costumes as a knockoff of the band GWAR, which has used similar costumes for years." This doesn't really belong to the lead, does it?
Also, what happened to the controversy section? Nothing in talk, no relevant subjects in history?
Pasi 15:37, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I reverted several edits back (several sections had been deleted), but didn't look closely at the article. You may want to take another look at it now. up+land 15:46, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead 

message: (Ugh, I've soon started half of these subtopics on the talk page. Someone stop me)
There seems to be a minor edit was going on about the band's genre. Someone might categorise some of it as vandalism, but let's assume good faith: can't we simply have all heavy metal, glam rock and hard rock listed as genres? It's not like Lordi would be the first band in Wikipedia with several genres. There definitely are aspects of all these genres in Lordi's music. Editing back and forth between them is going to just confuse people and make Wikipedia look silly.
There's a reason the infobox says "Genre(s)". My 'proposal' is to leave the lead as it is ("Lordi is a heavy metal band") and list the other genres in the infobox. It's not like there's an Ultimate Authority that categorises music and will say the final word. Pasi 09:52, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We already did the genre thing, check the talk archives. The fact of the matter is Lordi say they are hard rock as opposed to heavy metal, and the music they play is more akin to hard rock than heavy metal (of which Judas Priest is a prime example.)--Pypex 00:01, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Genre

message: Umm, who is G-stealer? I haven't ever heard of him and I Google is not helping. Could someone verify that he really exists? 80.186.62.184 13:16, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Reverted.  The name has been added to the section twice now with no explanation, first by Sami73 (talk • contribs) and second by 82.181.151.72 (talk • contribs) (a cable modem IP in Helsinki).  Neither has made any other contributions to Wikipedia.  —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 14:42, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Former members

message: Several people have been insisting to me that Lordi are a christian band. I haven't seen any reliable source for or against this, but I've been told that they said so on their official site. Can someone verify or disprove this information, please? IronChris  |  (talk) 14:56, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The band members are definitely christian but I don't think their music is. I would not say that the BAND is christian. 84.230.70.75 12:28, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There was no actual controversy in Finland. Internet trolls and angry fans of the artist that lost to Lordi on the national final were well exploited by tabloids. These co-called "religious leaders" mentioned in the article were some (or only one?) poor priests tabloid magazines also managed to dig up somewhere (to get some "Lordi must be banned" headlines). So, Lordi were not "almost replaced by another band". Regarding the band's Christianity, I caught an interview with Putaansuu on Finnish TV and he said something like "I think everyone of us is either an atheist or a Christian". Prolog 14:22, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lordi and religion? 

message: A request has been made that the article Blood red sandman be merged with this page.  I didn't add the tag, I just found it. Discuss.
--Rayc 18:08, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oppose. Why should we merge? I see absolutely no reason. There are plenty of articles for songs, there's no policy in Wikipedia that says that separate articles can't be made for songs. Besides, if we merge the material from Blood red sandman here, we will then have to make a section for all the other songs of Lordi, which is of course out of the question. There is no way that we can merge that material into this article. So, why merge? IronChris  |  (talk) 18:59, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

text: oppose--MadDogCrog 03:30, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

text: This article is not particularly long. It would make sense to have the information in this article. Thus merge. -- Geni 03:55, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Merge. Wikipedia:Notability (songs) sets out the criteria for songs having their own articles. This particular song plainly doesn't meet any of those criteria. "Hard Rock Hallelujah" would, though. -- ChrisO 16:57, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Oppose as per Wikipedia:Notability (songs). In contrary to what ChrisO stated, the article does meet the guidelines (which is nothing more than a proposal anyway). If you take a look at the German article, you'll see that Blood Red Sandman reached the 17th spot in the Finnish charts...which is at least a mediumsized country.—♦♦ SʘʘTHING(Я) 15:33, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Oppose. The song appears to meet notability guidelines. I can see no valid reason to merge. Sarah Ewart (Talk) 15:55, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Merge. There's nothing special about that song that warrants its own article. The.valiant.paladin 20:04, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Oppose. "Has been downloaded a high number of times through digital download websites" -> Blood Red Sandman music video has altogether over 500,000 views on Youtube. Prolog 09:24, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Merge Prolog, meeting just ONE of the criteria on the second list of Wikipedia:Notability (songs) is not good enough grounds for inclusion. It does not meet number 3 of that list either as it is not their "signature song".  The song should be merged as per ChrisO and Wikipedia:Notability (songs) --Nayl 12:17, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Comment. I believe it also fills the first criterion , as mentioned by SoothingR, but I guess that just depends on whether one sees Finland as a small or medium-sized country. Prolog 14:31, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Oppose. I think that the song is notable, especially given the fact that it is one of their few songs, for which a video has been made. RedvBlue 17:52, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge notice 

message: Can someone add this link : http://lordi-france.fr.tc
Its a french lordi homepage.
thanks ! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.250.199.123 (talk • contribs)  09:24, July 16, 2006  (UTC)
:I'm afraid not, links to fanpages are not be added to the links-section. I'm sorry.—♦♦ SʘʘTHING(Я) 15:26, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just to clarify a little, you may like to read Wikipedia is not repository of links. The External links guide states that "on articles about topics with many fansites, including a link to one major fansite is appropriate." However, your site is in French and the Manual of Style states that because this is the English Wikipedia, English links are preferred. I personally do not think your link should be included, partly because it is not in English and partly because it does not look like it has encyclopedic merit. Perhaps you could try the French Wikipedia? Cheers. Sarah Ewart (Talk) 15:47, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I actually did add Lordifans since it seems to match your requirements set forth above. "on articles about topics with many fansites, including a link to one major fansite is appropriate."  It is a US based fan site very much in line with the page topic Herrinz 03:02, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I see that the link to lordifans.com has been removed already.  Is there some reason? Herrinz 14:07, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Links 

message: Lordi has commented, that if they were an satanistic band. They would not have made tracks like Devil is a loser and Hard Rock Hallelujah. Hit it!
:Um yes? It says that on the article. Or did I miss your point? (ps. you can sign your comments by using four tildes (~)). Pasi 16:21, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lordi is not a satanistic band. 

message: Someone knowledgeable should add to the article about mr. Lordi playing Santa Claus on Finnish television.
:Shouldn't that go to Mr. Lordi article, not Lordi? Pasi 13:14, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Santa claus 

message: A request has now also been made to merge the newly-created Devil is a Loser with this article. - Blood red sandman 16:17, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: 2nd Merge Notice

message: A request has also been made to merge this with Who's Your daddy? (Lordi song). Discuss. - Blood red sandman 14:36, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: 3rd Merge Notice

message: Seriously, can we do something about these numerous merge notices on the top of the article? We should either decide to merge (them all) or not merge. It looks silly to have a plethora of merge notices appear there for every single viewer of the page. Pasi 23:54, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: agreed, it kinda makes the whole article a bit less than official. Herrinz 05:36, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Do not merge any of them. These singles merit their own articles, because they were hits in a medium/large (pick your choice) sized country. It meets WP:SONGS, therefore.—♦♦ SʘʘTHING(Я) 20:37, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge notices