Talk:Alexander the Great/Archive 6

message: Guys, just do not confuse modern-day homosexuality with the erastis-eromenos relationship of ancient Greece. This was not a homosexual relationship, at least as we know it nowadays. It was an element of culture. I donot know if "Homosexuality in ancient Greece" is the right title of the category some users want to create, including Alexander. We are not ecven sure about the sexual elements of the erastis-eromenos relationship, but it is definite that such a culture existed. For instance:
*Alcibiades had many male lovers, but he preferred the company of Socrates, with whom we donot know how intimate his relation was.
*Lysander was the lover (erastis) of Agesilaos II.
*The legendary Sacred Band of Thebes was organized on the basis of erastis-eromenos couples: "homosexual(?)" couples devoed to each other. And this devotion explains the effectiveness of this particular military body.
*In Symposium Plato (who also was the lover of a man he adored, Dion, See Letter Z') laud the love between men and regards it superior than the love between a man and a woman. Of course, for Plato, who despises paiderasty, love has mainly a spiritual meaning.
All this information is confirmed by ancient sources (Plutarch, Plato etc.) and verified by major modern scholars, like Ioannis Sykoutris. So, my conclusions are:
*Another thing is the relation of erastis-eromenos (or paidikos eros), another thing pederasty (according to modern concepts). Most male ancient Greece were taking part in a erastis-eromenos (or paidikos eros) relationship. But not all of them were pederasts.
*Alexander definitely was a part of this tradition. Of course, this does not mean he was a paiderast.
*I do not understand the necessity of a Category:Homosexuality in ancient Greece. First of all, the title of the category is not accurate, because it does not clarify the particularities of the "homosexual" relation of erastis-eromenos (or paidikos eros), its particular cultural elements and its ambiguous sexual content. Second, why, in any case, do we need such a category? We should put all famous male Greek in there, but why? In order to create the wrong impression in Wikipedians, non experts in ancient Greece, that all ancient Greek males were "gays"?! But they weren't in the way we think today. Who's going to make the distiction. This would be a disaster!! Do we have to categorize all major ancient Greeks like that?--Yannismarou 07:47, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I now show that a category:Greek pederasty exists, as well as an article Pederasty in ancient Greece. If the difference between Greek Pederasty (paidikos eros) and Modern Pederasty is clarified I'm not against such a category. But I'm still wondering, do we have to put all ancient Greeks in there? Alcibiades, Agesilaos, Lysander etc. maybe. Because there are sources, verifying that. But I donot know about Alexander. He must have had some kind of erastis-eromenos relationship, but are there any sources verifying that? I haven't searched it. I donot think we should speculate and add him in the category without specific sources mentioning his pederastic (in the ancient meaning of the term) relations.--Yannismarou 07:55, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "Homosexuality" right title?

message: While traipsing through some medical literature on sodium problems I came accross a fascinating conference paper that posited some possible causes for Alexander's final illness and death.  will tell you more. There was a small flurry of correspondence on that with alternative causes (from malaria to porphyria). Let me know if anyone needs help making sense out of the jargon. JFW | T@lk 11:49, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Death - medical speculation