Talk:James Graham (British Army soldier)

message: He? Its not an article. Please be serious. --Ironhoof (talk) 23:29, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm getting there.  Just the framework outlined so I can slot in the rest; I've 3 or 4 books and several web links, so give me time.  Gwinva (talk) 23:59, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Article?

message: These might warrant further investigation:
* http://www.army.mod.uk/coldstreamguards/history.htm done.
* http://waterloobattletours.users.btopenworld.com/index_files/Page4672.htm done
* http://books.google.com/books?id=ozpiotlbYhkC&pg=PA363&lpg=PA363&dq=Hougoumont+James+Graham&source=web&ots=5dMLWS_J3j&sig=pT89OYJKe92fBve4AERjTPAfGyA</S> done
* http://www.britishbattles.com/waterloo/waterloo-june-1815.htm done
* http://www.coldstreamguards-boro.org/Tribute%20to%20the%202nd%20Bt,.htm doneGwinva (talk) 00:37, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources

message: The article looks pretty good for a start, congratulations.  First, I fixed the French and replaced it with British, that was my mistake, wasn't paying attention. Soldiers are listed tagged by the country(ies) they served, not where they fought.  Second, I marked supporting materials because it needs a picture or portrait of him (or a grave if there aren't any of him). For the moment this is not a top priotiry since the infobox is there, you can sqeek by for a bit.  As for the referencing and citation, I marked it because I know the article needs expanding.  Personally, I do not like marking referencing and citation as complete unless the article is meets criteria two and three first (personal preference) because the changing length of the article means it will need more and better citations.  Feel free to leave any further comments on my talk page, and if you'd like me to reassess the article at any time, just let me know there.  Keep up the good work. Cromdog (talk) 22:20, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, that all makes sense. I'll keep plugging away.  There is a portrait at the Irish Galleries which I saw on one site (but can't find it now).  Have to hope someone Irish comes along for a grave shot!  Gwinva (talk) 23:46, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps you should put a notice at WikiProject Ireland asking for picture of the grave, and ask if the portrait at the Irish Galleries is in the public domain or not? Cromdog (talk) 00:42, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Good idea.  Have done so.  Gwinva (talk) 01:53, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mil Hist assesment 

message: * If you're in Ireland:
Sources say Graham was born at "Cloona", County Monaghan, which I think is probably Clones.  Certainly, an unciteable blog mentions he's from Drummelly. (b 1791). It would be great to get some photos or pictures, of gravestones/plaques etc, plus confirmation of his birth, if there was anyone here willing to take up the challenge.  There's a watercolour portrait of him at the National Gallery of Ireland, if anyone can discover if it's in the public domain.  He died at Royal Hospital, Kilmainham on 23 or 28 April 1845, had a military funeral and is prob buried nearby.  The bloggy site also mentioned there was a memorial plaque at the hospital which was transferred to St Tiernach's Church in Clones. If anyone local to any of those places could investigate/grab photos I would be greatly in your debt. 
* If you're a Napoleonic-era enthusiast: 
I've got pretty much as far as I can with the resources available to me, so I was wondering if anyone has anything more to add.  What would be great, too, is Robert Gibb's famous painting of the gates being shut.  I've seen it replicated on dozens of sites, but am not sure how to discover the copyright status.  He also, apparently, was awarded a special gallantry medal (which one source speculated would have been a VC if they'd been invented).  Any ideas what that would be, and whether it's anything official?
Thanks, Gwinva (talk) 04:13, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pictures/Details wanted 

message: "The French failing in their endeavours to push in the gate, a brave grenadier volunteered to climb over and open it from the inside.  Captain Wyndham, on perceiving the latter at the top of the gate, instantly desired Serjeant Graham, whose musket he was holding whilst the latter was bringing forward another piece of timber, to drop the wood, take his firelock, and shoot the intruder.  The order was instantly obeyed; and the intrepid assailant [...] fell beneath Graham's deadly aim. -  Captain William SiborneSiborne, p 239
"Roaring at his officers to follow him, Macdonnell launched himself across the courtyard...For an instant the French were scattered; and while a couple of ensigns and two sergeants held them at bay, Macdonnell and Sergeant Graham set their shoulders to the double doors, and forced them together, the sweat pouring down their faces and the muscles standing out like corrugations down their powerful thighs.  Yells of fury sounded outside, as Graham, while his colonel held the doors together against every effort of the sapeurs to force them open, slammed the great iron crossbar into position." - Georgette Heyer, An Infamous ArmyHeyer, Georgette An Infamous Army, 1937 (repub. London:Arrow Books, 2004, p. 338)
Perhaps some use can be made of these:
Booth, p 86: The Duke then said, ' It is generally thought that the battle 
of Waterloo was one of the greatest battles ever fought : such is not my opinion, 
but I say nothing upon that head. The success of the battle of Waterloo, however, 
turned upon the closing of the gates of Hougoumont. These gates were 
closed in the most courageous manner, at the very nick of time, by the effort of 
Sir James Macdonnel. I cannot help thinking, therefore, that Sir James is the 
man to whom you should give the £500.' " 
Sir James Macdonnel was applied to : he listened to the story of the 
executors, expressed his thanks to the great hero for his award, but said, ' I cannot 
claim all the merit due to the closing of the gates of Hongoumont ; for 
Serjeant John Graham, who saw with me the importance of the step, rushed 
forward, and together WE shut the gates. What I should therefore propose is that 
the serjeant and myself divide the legacy between us.' The executors, delighted 
with the proposal, adopted it at once, and Serjeant Graham was rewarded with 
hie share of the £500. " 
An interesting aside: http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=qVUBAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA72&dq=%22Waterloo+Medal%22++Fraser&lr=#PPA71,M1 discusses the £500 gift, claiming it Macdonnel and Sergeant Fraser, and that neither Macdonnel nor Fraser saw the money it suggests it never existed, and the whole story became mixed up from the annuity story! The DNB certainly does not mention it, of Graham or Macdonnell. Siborne doesn't mention the £500 despite having spoken to Graham personally: http://books.google.com/books?id=WIaa967vOTcC&pg=PR16&vq=Graham&source=gbs_search_r&cad=0_2&sig=0WwN-0sGpyrqrRUeysdjFQPzkxI  Worth presenting, anyway. Gwinva (talk) 20:57, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quotes and other notes 

message: Good job with the GA. Only thing that I would suggest is that you might want to see if you could find any pics. of him. Cheers, ṜέđṃάяķvюĨїήīṣŢ  Drop me a line§ 19:02, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: GA-Passed

message: I liked the article a lot, but there is a problem with some of the citations. See my how to guide below for more information.--Jackyd101 (talk) 10:46, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Citations

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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