Talk:John II of France

message: The referencing of this article needs improvement. It is difficult to tie some of the claims, if not outright extrapolations, to the main references cited therein. I have tried to remedy some of it with a few edits based on Froissart, Deviosse and Autrand. Jouvencel 19:59, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Referencing 

message: Can someone explain to me why the name of Jean II is "translated" or anglicized for the title of this article? If his name was Jean, would it not make more sense to simply leave it "as is"? PGNormand 17:41, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  John vs. Jean 

message: This article seems awfully short for a biographical article on a King of France. I think it's worthy of being labeled a stub. Are there any objections to this? RobertM525 04:16, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Guess not. A stub it is. (I'm using the French nobility stub because I can't find a French royalty stub, but if there is one, it should be used instead.) RobertM525 09:09, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stub? 

message: I arrived at this article following the counts of Auvergne in the Rulers of Auvergne page, but here  I finfd no evidence of him being count of Auvergne. 
divugi@hotmail.com
: His second wife was the countess of Auvergne and Boulogne. I've added her to the page. Choess 15:01, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Count of Auvergne? 

message: I have added a  tag to the following paragraph, as it isn't consistent with the preceding one which says that he was held captive at a variety of locations.  Can someone verify this? --MichaelMaggs 11:20, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Royal privileges?

message: In "Treaty of Mantes" it is written that "By the treaty, ... but the peace he desired was not sustained and Charles... assassinated his constable, Charles de la Cerda, later that year." Thus the treaty was before the assassination.
On the other hand, this article says "...Charles II of Navarre... was implicated in the assassination of the Constable of France, Charles de la Cerda. Nevertheless... John signed the Treaty of Mantes with Charles." Thus the assassination happened before the treaty.
What is correct?
Top.Squark (talk) 14:34, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I quickly checked one of the references on Treaty of Mantes (Zacour), and he makes it clear that the treaty followed the assassination. Choess (talk) 14:58, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If so, I suggest you correct the article and place the appropriate reference. Top.Squark (talk) 18:35, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradition with [[Treaty of Mantes]] 

message: I'm happy to consider whether the text on sexuality is phrased correctly or whether the sources are the right ones. But I would rather engage in a discussion first please before removing such a large piece of text (which is dealt with by mainstream academics in a fairly straightforward way). Proper objections would be welcome. Contaldo80 (talk) 18:22, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The piece of text sucks on several levels, and the approach to the subject is terrible. Yes i used the word "sucks". How can anybody come out and say "Like all sodomites in the middle ages...Jean le Bon... was a bisexual" First off, nobody uses the word "sodomites" anymore in serious discourse, so forget that. Second, a huge leap is made to make homosexuals=bisexuals simply because they lived at that time, not to mention talks about it as though it were proven fact...Preposterous assumptions. Finally is the citation: please don't tell me some new book says he was gay in one little paragraph. Come on, its like 3rd or 4th hand information from a paperback book with a obvious agenda to sensationalize and sell books. So we've got what? rumour? speculation? Not good enough for an encyopedic entry. In short, the passage is not acceptable. I hope nobody takes my history so lightly when I die, like assuming i was gay because i have close guy friends or work for some guy, who knew a guy, who was gay. CJ DUB (talk) 00:21, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

text: Please come up with a better ref, that book is not legit. It cites some other recent book? And where does Devoisse get his references from? lol. How about find and read a reference that specifically mentions either a) a primary reference where some close contemporary stated or remarked that he was "gay" or the equivalent, or b) a weight of evidence citing specific primary reference examples of behaviour of Jean le Bon consistent with actual homosexuality. Anyting else and you are making bold speculations about a guy that lived six hundred years ago. CJ DUB (talk) 00:31, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sexuality 

message: I have searched through my copy of Jean Deviosse's book on Jean le Bon, but have not been able to find any sentence in which the author suggests a romantic relationship between king Jean and La Cerda. I have therefore adapted the sentence in question in this article to match the French wiki-page as well as the view in several academic books: that rumors were spread of an alledged affair between the two by Charles II of Navarre, as part of his slander campaign against king Jean. If you wish to include a statement that some historians think Jean le Bon was bi/homosexual, please include specific references, to the exact page of the book where it can be found.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.53.0.242 (talk) 11:58, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name the source if you wish to claim homo/bisexuality 

message: What does this mean?
Bolinda (talk) 04:23, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: By right of the wife. It means that the wife is the one with a claim to rule. See jure uxoris for more. -Rrius (talk) 04:49, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  jure uxoris 

message: Here's a denier of Jean II. Feel free to insert it in the article. Cheers PHG (talk) 20:54, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Coinage 

message: The passage about the banquet following John’s coronation is unclear. Who exactly bursts through the door in full armor? The placement of commas is ambiguous and the sentence difficult to parse. It reads as if Charles of Navarre interrupts the event accompanied by John’s retainers, but is then arrested by John, who has appeared from nowhere.47.44.104.99 (talk) 18:17, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who burst into the banquet?