Talk:Jason Todd

message: Any objections to putting the reappearance in Hush in the Red Hood section so as keep the narrative more consistent from his resurrection and training in Batman annual #25 through the Lost Days miniseries?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by MikeDee29 (talk • contribs) 20:43, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Lost Days

message: The article just went from C to A to B back to C. What are the specific examples of further needed citation and reference to keep this A Class?   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.197.81.195 (talk) 21:17, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps by looking through comics and going through some history of Jason and what makes him compelling --ShaneDenial17 (talk) 16:36, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: C Class?

message: Even Robins Link removed due to the fact of clicking on the link I was hit by about 20 VIRUSES good job I have McAfee to remove them!!!
Even Robins: Jason Todd  —Preceding unsigned comment added by C2fx (talk • contribs) 21:26, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: External link REMOVED

message: Is that spoiler at the top, about Jason being the New Red Hood, still needed? I know that the spoiler tag itself is consistently something people argue about, since the question of "When is a spoiler not a spoiler?" is everlasting. With a comic, that is ever evolving, I'd think it would be most applicable at the 'current' level. That is spoilers for Countdown, yes, warn me!  Spoilers for the Red Hood, which happened a couple years ago, is no longer really spoiler worthy. Taking this on a case by case basis, do folks still feel that warning is needed for this article? -- Ipstenu (talk|contribs) 16:33, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: To be honest, I can't see a spoiler warning, about published material, lasting more that a year, year and a half tops. That is unless the writer or publisher is playing fast and loose with the readers, and stretching out a mystery. - J Greb 16:42, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spoiler Warning - Still needed? 

message: I have re-edited Jason's career as Robin as such:
During Todd’s first night as Robin he deduces that Two-Face is set to commit a crime, and plays a significant part in preventing it. Jason also prevents Two-Face from endangering an innocent – by voluntarily taking her place as a hostage. After his escape, Todd learns that Harvey Dent had killed his father and that Batman had been keeping this information from him. This enrages Todd. The next day Batman and Robin catch up with Two Face. After knocking Dent unconscious Batman instructs Todd to keep his distance. However, Jason starts strangling the villain, exclaiming “I’ll kill you…kill you…”. As a consequence of this Two-Face escapes. Batman and Robin talk things out, Todd figures out Two-Face’s next crime, and (following a blunder by Batman) Todd actually saves Dent’s life. After capturing Two-Face both Batman and Robin seem content that Jason has worked his problems out.
Following this Todd becomes a relatively successful crime fighter. He encounters and aids Batman in defeating a collection of Gotham’s costumed villains - including Magpie, the Joker, the Penguin, Catwoman, the Scarecrow, the Mad Hatter and the Mime. Jason also rescues Batman when Gotham city is temporally overrun by Deacon Blackfire. Although Jason’s impetuousness foils a drugs bust which Dick Grayson (as Nightwing) had been working on, Grayson is impressed enough by the lad to gift him a ‘teen-wonder’ sized Robin costume. Jason Todd (as Robin) even meets the president of America. However, Jason is independent minded and overconfident – which in turn leads to impetuousness and disobedience. Batman recognises this himself expressing; “No matter what I say Robin likes to go it on his own whenever he gets the chance. The trouble is that he’s nowhere near as good as he thinks he is.”
One example of impetuous disobedience results in Jason single-handedly capturing the villain Jonathon Crane (a.k.a. the Scarecrow). On this occasion Batman gives Robin strict instructions to locate Crane and call in when he has done so. Instead Jason renders the Scarecrow immobile and takes him to the Batcave. Batman berates Todd for his actions. Following this Batman indicates that he does not wish Robin to tackle major criminals alone, as he is afraid the lad will reach a point where he won’t need mentoring any longer.
Despite his successes Todd does not work out all his anger/violence issues. Alfred Pennyworth considers that Bruce Wayne first realised that Jason was not Dick Grayson when Todd shattered the collarbone of a drug-dealing pimp - Todd expressed regret that they were not able to get any information from him, but also expressed a belief that the pimp got what he deserved. Alfred attempts to assure Todd that the fear Batman instils is more effective than violence. Jason counters this by stating that although criminals fear Batman, they know he won't kill them. However, during Jason's time as Robin, his mentor is seemingly/partially responsible for the death of two major criminals - The KGBeast and Deacon Blackfire (it is not revealed that the KGBeast actually escaped death until after Jason's own demise). The notion that it is acceptable for heroes to bring about the death of criminals grows within Jason's mind.
On his second meeting with Two-Face Todd argues that Batman should not free Dent from a death-trap, stating; "We should let him die, Batman.".  On an other occasion Jason violently attacks a pimp; Batman asks Todd if he had been trying to kill the pimp – to which Todd responds; “Would it’ve been that big of a loss if I had?”. After a knife-murderer, who escaped justice due to a lack of evidence, was killed by vengeful vigilante, Todd expresses a belief that this killing might not have been legal but was ‘right’. Some time later, Jason independently pursues a rapist who evades criminal charges due to his father's status as a diplomat. When Batman eventually catches up to his young ward he finds the rapist dead – having ‘fallen’ from the balcony of his high-rise apartment. Batman had by this point become so concerned about Todd’s apparent tendencies that he was compelled to ask Jason whether he had killed the man – Jason denied the charge.
That's down to less than 700 words. Which I think is reasonable for the entire career of one of the Robins. I would appriciate any feedback.
THIS NEEDS TO GO ON THE Main page. - Nick
Hope you include how Batman allowed a mob to murder Blackfire when Jason wanted to save him. Or how he had to stop Batman from trying to kill the Joker in Tec 570, post crisis. It reads more like an indictment than a biography. Do we paint Batman as a psycho for causing Alberto Falcone's arm to wither from a beating? Also love how even bringing in Scarecrow alone is now a bad thing. Read it again, Bruce was impressed. Again, reads like someone wants him to have been a killer as Robin wrote it.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.197.76.117 (talk) 06:53, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jason Todd's complete career as Robin as I would express it.... 

message: While messageboard info is considered invalid, the information concerning Jason Todd's conceived Earth-Two counterpart is mentioned as being planned in an interview from the hardcover printing of Infinite Crisis.  How does one go about linking to a source that isn't online, but printed in a book?  71.120.233.114 09:20, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Source it, just don't provide a link.  Ichormosquito 06:21, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

text: There's no way to verify that. WesleyDodds (talk) 00:19, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Was just looking at that line in confusion myself.  What is it that the quote is meant to indicate?  What "regret" is it talking about?  Does he regret killing Todd?  Does he regret saying it would be sleazy to bring him back?  Does he regret saying anything on the subject at all, for people to quote later?  Out of context it could mean any or none of the above.D1Puck1T (talk) 20:38, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Concerning Behind the scenes

message: Must say I agree that this articles summation of Jason Todd's post-crisis career is woefully inadequate. 
However, I also consider that the pre-crisis Jason is somewhat ignored within this article. Jason first appeared in Feb 1983, and the reboot origin did not occur until June '87. That's over four years - longer than the post-crisis incarnation lasted.
First of all the article is inaccurate and contradictory. In one instance we are informed that Jason first appears in Batman #357 (March 1983)- and then in the body text we are told he first appears in Detective comics 524.
It is notable that the death of Todd's parents occurred in Tec 526  - which was an over sized anniversary issue celebrating batman's 500th appearance in the comic. However the information here in just wrong. Jason did not appear as Robin in that issue - but appeared in a costume of his own design.
It seems that the whole article needs to be looked at by somebody who is interested enough in the character to get the basic facts straight.
Furthermore, this article refers to Killer Croc (who killed Jason's parents) only in passing - in brackets even. This story actually took many issues to come to ahead and warrants some mention. It should also be mentioned that Dick Grayson assumed responsibility for the Todd's death - given that he had asked them to follow Croc. In fact Commissioner Gordon also came out and blamed Grayson (Robin); "You brought them into this, Robin. It's on your head". Significant! 
This article makes no reference to the interesting storyline whereby the 'Child Welfare Bureau' suspect that Bruce Wayne is abusing Jason (due to his bruising and tiredness, ect.) and take the boy into custody. 
The Nocturna saga - a story which took, I would guess, about 15 issues to resolve - in which Jason is adopted by a mysterious female villain. At first he agrees to the adoption only to help 'crack the case', however Jason does come to consider Nocturna to be his mother. Not mentioned at all.
The Catwoman years. After her rehabilitation Jason felt that Selina Kyle was replacing him as Batman's partner (essentially he was right). During this time Jason teamed up with Harvey Bullock - with whom he developed a close bond. 
Bullock worked out that this Robin was not the original - and even suspected he might be the natural son of Nocturna. Gordon reveals that he also knows that Jason is not the original Robin - but considers that Batman must have his reasons for not saying anything. None of this is even hinted at.
This article would be woefully inadequate for a second string character. However, the character of Jason Todd has been around (in one form or another) for 25 years (next month?). The character of Jason Todd has shaped the Batman mythos for all that time. The character of Jason Todd is presently at the very centre of the DCU. Come on - at least get it right!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.153.185.90 (talk) 10:14, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Woefully inadequate  

message: :Image:RedRobin.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot (talk) 10:33, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:RedRobin.jpg

message: :Image:Robin shrine.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 04:26, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Robin shrine.jpg

message: "This version wasn't far removed from the original Dick Grayson character. He was an orphan, a former circus acrobat and pretty much the all american "Leave it to Beaver" kid."
This whole article needs a serious looking at.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.156.68.244 (talk) 09:41, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  What the...? 

message: I'm not sure that there should be a second entry for the 'red hood' persona.
Should there also be a 'created by' for the post-crisis Jason; the 'Nightwing' Jason; the 'Red Robin' Jason; the Jason that wore blue jeans; the Jason that wore green trousers, etc?
Check Roy Harper - Speedy, Arsnal, Red Arrow - one character one point of creation.
(I would make the same argument for Dick Grayson also.) 
The second 'creators' might have created a new secret identity (note 'Robin' and 'Nightwing' have artcles as seperate identities) but they did not create Jason Todd.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.134.240.253 (talk) 16:32, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Created By? 

message: This article needs the B-Class checklist filled in to remain a B-Class article for the Comics WikiProject.  If the checklist is not filled in by 7th August this article will be re-assessed as C-Class.  The checklist should be filled out referencing the guidance given at Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment/B-Class criteria. For further details please contact the Comics WikiProject.  Comics-awb (talk) 16:46, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The article is actually pretty solid and is coming along nicely but feels... muddled? unfocused? The Publication History is largely written in an in-universe style and is missing important out-of-universe material: Most obvious it mentions in the lead that the characters fate was decided in a phone poll but no further mention of this is made on the page (it is on the Death in the family article but without a specific source). It might be that the PH aspects need to be split off and the current PH turned into a FCB but I'd rather see it rewritten to be more out-of-universe as this will have to happen at some point so it might as well be now. Make the referencing thicker throughout the PH and try and find something to support the statements made in the Powers and Abilities. (Emperor (talk) 19:39, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: WikiProject Comics B-Class Assesment required

message: This movie HAS nothing to do with Jaosn Todd...abosolutely NOTHING. He is never mentioned and the origin story is just an altered version of Dick grayson's circus origin.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.67.178.213 (talk) 22:41, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Batman forever

message: Didnt Jason Todd at some point have the ability to turn into a some wierd creature that eat people in Nightwing? i see no mention of it here but im sure it happened. --- 88.108.148.10 (talk) 17:21, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Hahaha.  WHAT?!  That's awesome. 68.196.93.32 (talk) 02:55, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Superpowers 

message: It's probably Jason (and some DC behind-the-scenes stuff confirms it), but "Gatman" pointedly doesn't confirm that he's Jason when Nightwing and Robin call him out. The narration is ambiguous enough that it could be Jean Paul Valley/Azrael. Just saying it's not definitely known for sure that it's him. 96.231.16.93 (talk) 03:01, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Battle for the Cowl 

message: Is Todd dead after BOTC? (JoeLoeb (talk) 00:25, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead? 

message: The Outlaws section should just be about Jason's involvement in the team, not Starfire's. --DrBat (talk) 00:49, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Quite right; I saw some area with cn tags and went hog wild. I've ported the removed text to the appropriate article. Thanks for catching it, DrBat. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 03:34, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Outlaws 

message: Where was it revealed that Jason Todd's middle name is Peter? 120.29.80.103 (talk) 11:11, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: If it isn't cited, it will be removed. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 15:12, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Jason's middle name was revealed during The Death of the Family storyline, on his birth certificate.--NeoBatfreak (talk) 17:13, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, it needs to be cited to something better than one of us noticing it in a storyline. What would be best is a reliable source taking note of the middle name, and perhaps why its important. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 22:02, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd go a step or three beyond that. It should also be sourced that 1) it's really, really important and 2) that the three word name is what the character is commonly know by in real world contexts. At that point, sure, add it to the infobox and the lead. If it isn't the common name for the character, is sourcable, and non-trivial, it should be worked into the relevant section lower down the article. And even if it is sourcable, if it is trivial - and a one time mention on an image of a documents in a single story is very trivial - it isn't needed in the article here. - J Greb (talk) 22:20, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

text: Their middle names shouldn't be mentioned either. Middle names are rarely treated consistently in comics anyway.Zythe (talk) 21:15, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: There is not a real relevance to the middle name with this particular character that I know of. It could be included as it is indeed Peter but it is not a primary focus plus it could be put in his bio before diving into his history--ShaneDenial17 (talk) 16:40, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Middle name 

message: Hi, I'm the one who made those Jason Todd edits under Young Justice. I'll reword it if you think that's best but I think that, considering Nightwing's comments in episode 1 and then the sight of a person who was clearly Tim looking at another Robin, it's clear that Jason exists in the YJ earth-16 continuity and should be mentioned. Bellerophone29 (talk) 23:29, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The main issue is that it is not explicitly said that the hologram memorial is of Todd. We are not allowed to use our prior knowledge or deduction (I call it Sherlocking) in the article. Wikipedia works on reliable, explicit sources. Without a reviewer from a reliable saying it explicitly, we have no avenue by which to include him. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 00:13, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: what would you consider a reliable source then? Because I think the sight of Tim, Dick and a hologram in the same episode proves that it's Jason. The Young Justice Wikia already refers to the hologram as of Todd. And I think it's important to mention all of Jason's "other media" appearances since there are so few. Bellerophone29 (talk) 00:27, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Not sure, but if you look through the sources that are in the article, you'd see that there is an appreciable number of reviewers writing about YJ, and websites that have editorial oversight (one of the key requirements for inclusion as an reliable source). If the YJ wiki mentions it, its only a matter of time before a reliable source does so as well, and that is when we can use the mention, along with a good source. If it never comes up, then it isn't important. That's going to be a hard part of editing at Wikipedia - sometimes the things you think are vital to include is seen as a distraction at best or as fancruft at worst. Buck up - something may very well come along. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 00:40, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I understand I haven't been editing wikipedia as long as you have, so I've moved our conversation to the talk page so other people can weigh in. Bellerophone29 (talk) 02:07, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Excellent - I'll see you there. :) - Jack Sebastian (talk) 05:18, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

text: It appears a source from Scott Collura at IGN dropped the dime suggested that it "must be" Jason Todd. Not solid, but citable. I've adjusted the text to reflect that. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 23:16, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jason Todd mentions in Young Justice (2011)

message: I've had to revert it yet again, and its growing tedious. Point to a reliable source or two that explicitly note Jason Todd, and you've got traction for inclusion. Otherwise, anyone seeking to add information about Todd is adding Original Research; you cannot presume - using whatever foreknowledge you may possess - to read intimations as to prior Robins. You go with what is explicitly given in the episode or stated explicitly by a reliable, notable reviewer. If you have a differing view, expressing it here is the place to do so, and not via a slo-mo edit war. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 13:51, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It appears a source from Scott Collura at IGN dropped the dime suggested that it "must be" Jason Todd. Not solid, but citable. I've adjusted the text to reflect that. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 23:16, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Arbitrary break

message: There's a rather annoying line by someone that's been added to a notation I did in the Pre-Crisis origin section citing Detective 569 as being a Post Crisis story. As has already been expressed in the article, the Post Crisis Jason Todd did not really appear until Batman 408 in 1987, when the retcon occurred. The wiki article here already goes in depth to discuss the editorial disconnect between Batman and Detective with regards to circus acrobat and street kid versions appearing simultaneously. Let's be clear, just because a book came out in 1986 does not make it Post Crisis, nor should we let continuity be dictated by cover date. I'm removing the line calling it a post crisis story.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mikedee429 (talk • contribs) 03:30, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Pre Crisis vs. Post-Crisis

message: I haven't seen it mentioned in the main article , so , I'll mention it here , just in case I missed it , or it needs to be discreetly added. Has no one noted the irony of Jason becoming "The Red Hood" ?  In the original Bat-canon , it was revealed that The Joker was originally a villain called "The Red Hood". ( Black suit , red cape , red dome "hood". ). In this guise , he is knocked into the vat of chemicals , by Batman , and becomes the man we now know as The Joker. Granted , this was in the 40s/50s , and may be considered "ancient history" , but , I'm pretty sure the modern day writers meant it as a homage. 75.104.174.40 (talk) 19:03, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jason Todd & The Ironic Alias 

message: Per WP:NFCC, this is clearly too many (it actually puts it in the top 50 articles by number of non-free images).  Which ones could be usefully removed per that policy?  Clearly one or two may pass that policy and I'd rather someone who knows the subject have a look at it. Black Kite (talk) 00:16, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  12 non-free images 

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