Talk:Joy Division/Archive 1

message: Sorry, what? Since when? They certainly were not "marketed" as Goths. Martin Hannett might have called their music "gothic" but he was hardly their management. In any case, he almost certainly would have meant that their music was gothic in the artistic sense, rather than the black hair, black lippy, pretend you're a vampire sense. This article has been seriously POV'd by a Goth or Goths. I ask you to substantiate these claims with something a little more substantial than some website quoting Martin Hannett. I was into JD from day one and there was no way on Earth they were "viewed" as Goth then. Now might be different but tell it how it was, not how you wish it was, eh?Dr Zen 12:00, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Joy Division Goths?

message: If this name means nothing to you, you might as well go back to watching The Crow or your vampire videos.  If it does, any help filling in relevant details would be appreciated. Edwardian 08:13, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for starting an article on Gretton, I'd been meaning to do it for quite a while. Cnwb 11:55, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Rob Gretton

message: I've altered 'Tabernacle' to 'Talbot Tabernacle'. I, along wuth Jack Balchin, put on this show
as part of our ongoing fortnightly 'Dub Club' series at the venue. I've no recollection of a melodica being smashed though.
joly
Wwwhatsup 08:05, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: =

message: ...Robert Smith, who says that Curtis' suicide prevented his own. Could someone please substantiate this with a reference? Cheers -- Jon Dowland 17:24, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  rob smith quote 

message: How can a non-official release not be a bootleg? If neither the band's label or the band themselves authorized the release, that sounds quite a bit like a bootleg to me (not that I have anything against bootlegs). Folkor 09:01, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Looking at Bootleg, it appears to be exactly that. -- Jon Dowland 15:41, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Let the Movie Begin 

message: The 1978 section says The album would be released as a bootleg in 1982 and then officially 10 years later. It doesn't say what album. The discography below has no entry for a bootleg in 1982 or albums for 1992. Could someone please add the name to the 1978 section and the two entries to the discography? -- Jon Dowland 15:22, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: To me, that sounds like the "Warsaw" bootleg, featuring the RCA Arrow Studio sessions. Three of those tracks ("The Drawback", "Interzone", and "Shadowplay") were officially released on the Heart and Soul box set in 1998, but I really don't think there's ever been an official release of the rest of the material. One of my best friends found the bootleg on vinyl in Germany, and it also included some other random stuff like one of the bands' Peel sessions, but if there had been an official release I'd own it. I'd be really surprised if such a release exists (assuming that I am talking about the right bootleg). Folkor 19:53, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I actually own a copy of the Warsaw CD.  My copy was released on "Movie Play Gold" records. Check this out. It's the first album that was scrapped, plus some very early stuff. It's at least quasi-official, I think. James James 06:46, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep, that looks very similar to the vinyl copy a friend of mine has. It has the same core 11 tracks, plus the first Peel session, and some other random stuff. I'm still pretty confident that's hardly official. If it's not on Factory, you can't really call it as such. Such is my opinion, at least. Folkor 08:03, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Erm. You do know they sold their back catalogue? This CD claims to be licensed and the record label seems legit, even if not exactly mainstream.James James 11:27, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, if there's enough consensus that it's more legit than not, I'm fine with that. I just had previously thought it wasn't, but perhaps it is. Folkor 23:29, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I really don't know. I had a scout at the site that had the picture, and they don't think it's official at all.. Does anyone speak Portuguese? James James 00:14, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've got the Movie Play Gold version. I got it from Amazon and I've seen it in at least one of Virgin and HMV, all of which would suggest it's legit. On the other hand it contains "As You Said", the copyright of which I would have thought lay elsewhere. It's an Italian release, of course, and Italian copyright law was for years laxer than that of most other western counties, but I thought the EU had harmonised copyright law a while ago. My guess would be that nobody has got a sufficient enough claim to the Warsaw demos and the RCA material to challenge MPG, and nobody cares enough about a scrap like "As You Said", which by itself isn't exactly going to make anybody a millionaire. BTLizard 09:19, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

text: The guy - Des - aka Red Records - who put out the Warsaw bootleg in 1982 (?) lived directly across the street from Better Badges on Portobello Rd. We ratted him out to Factory and a negotiation was done that gave a good potion of the proceeds to Ian Curtis' family AFAIK.joly (ex-BB) 08:11, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  1982 bootleg / 1992 official release 

message: Can I say I agree that Joy Division should not be included in the New Wave category? Goth, yes, because Goths themselves claim they are one of the first Goth bands, but New Wave, no way. I just don't think the cap fits there. However, can I suggest that if a reputable source can be found that says that JD were a New Wave band, I will bow to that, and I hope other editors who think they are not New Wave will too. James James 06:38, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Depending on one's definition of new wave, it's perfectly plausible.  New wave is a pretty slippery term, so who's to say.  But I guess if you just want to think of it as another word for synthpop, then they don't fit.  Deleuze 19:38, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Wave 

message: When the band had recorded Closer, Curtis was given a copy of the album on cassette. Cassette was a very new medium in 1980, so new, in fact, that he didn't have a cassette player to play it on.
I can't believe this. I'm from the UK, and my family had a cassette player in 1972. I owned one in 1978 (I remember taking it to primary school with me, so I would have been at most 11 years old). I expect that most cars were sold with cassette players by 1980 as well. Perhaps Curtis didn't have a cassette player, but not because they were new tech.
*Cassettes were first mass produced from Germany in 1965, so I would agree in your assessment. Folkor 03:47, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't believe that someone could doubt about cassettes: I can confirm that they were very common in Europe along the 1970s. Though I'm not from UK, at home there was a cassette deck in 1974.--Dr. Who 23:52, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trivia: Cassettes 

message: The ending solo from "New Dawn Fades" was featured in the 1995 film Heat as Al Pacino chases down Robert DeNiro.
should be changed to:
The ending solo from "New Dawn Fades", as performed by Moby, was featured in the 1995 film Heat as Al Pacino chases down Robert DeNiro.
Thoughts?
Agree. Done. Wilhelm Screamer 06:03, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Artist credit clarification 

message: I don't understand why the following text was removed:
*The song "Atrocity Exhibition", from the album Closer, shares its title with the novel The Atrocity Exhibition by J.G. Ballard.
It looks perfectly OK to me. BTLizard 08:18, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's been a while now and nobody's responded so I've reinserted it. BTLizard 11:52, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Atrocity Exhibition 

message: As two of them came from, and lived, in Macclesfield is it right that "Origin" should be tagged just as Salford? ThanxTheriac 19:58, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Origin

message: Is it worth mentioning Pansy Division in the article, which is also a band based on a German military term? The name Pansy Division is a pun combining "Panzer Division" with the slang term "pansy", meaning an effeminate or homosexual male.. samwaltz 13:35, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Pansy Division

message: In the "transmission" music video, there is some dude reading a poem that goes "The Bloody train is bloody late; you bloody wait you bloody wait; The bloody view is bloody vile . . ."
Who is that guy and what poem is that and how is it assoicated with Joy division? Watercat77 22:44, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's 'Evidently Chickentown' the Mancunian poet John Cooper Clarke. He was very respected in the post punk community. Go here for the full poem - http://mivox.multiply.com/music/item/9 SAFCjl 17:06, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who is that poet at the beginning of the transmission video? 

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Joydivisionstill.jpg

message: :Image:Joy Division-Substance (album cover).jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 06:14, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Joy Division-Substance (album cover).jpg

message: The use of images not in compliance with our fair-use criteria or our policy on nonfree content is not appropriate, and the images have been removed. Please do not restore them. — Moe ε 20:47, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use criteria

message: I don't see much mention of the very big influence THE DOORS had on Ian Curtis/Joy Division. It's true that they made something different of what they had (by accident more than anything I believe!), but you can clearly hear The Doors in there. And in Ian's voice. DaveEx 22:32, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Influences 

message: Can I just thank who ever bothered to edit this article.  Much better than before.  Thanks.  Labamba23 07:44, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thankyou 

message: "Sandwiched in between these two important landmarks was the realization that Ian's illness was something we would have to learn to accomodate." Accommodate is misspelled, but without access to the quote source, I can't tell if it's [sic] or actual typo. Michael Devore 05:39, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It was a typo I made. I fixed it. WesleyDodds 07:16, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Quote