Talk:Silverado (film)

message: I recently made a long series of edits to this article, for which, though I provided edit summaries, I will now offer a more detailed explanation.  First, the lede, which was poorly written and contained information unnecessary for the lede, including unreferenced information about home media.  Then, I copy-edited the plot, including removal of the cast member's names, which is redundant.  Then the cast itself, where I removed the table, which is unnecessary and has been removed from every film article I have ever worked on.  In the production section, I removed the paragraph about Glenn enjoying working with Costner, which had nothing to do with the production.  The amazon.com links are borderline.  I argue that they communicate nothing and are virtually spam.  If the point is to show release dates, there are surely other sources that can be used. ---RepublicanJacobiteThe'FortyFive' 01:11, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, the home media information in the lede is referenced in the Home Media section. The lede section does not require citations if it is included elsewhere in the article. I can't say I agree with the Cast section piece. Cast lists in that format appear in many articles. Thats something opinionated. You can revert that edit if you want, but there's really no need to. I don't quite see how your format looks entirely different. You also noted before, that the extra cast list members were "notable" additions. I strongly disagree with that. They are simply "extras" and have less than 5 minutes of screen time or dialogue in the film. The interview with Glenn is relevant. In the future, the article will most probably be extended, and that information can be transferred to a different or more relevant title subject. The Plot section contains the characters/actors names for easier referencing. If you want to remove the names, you can, but it just makes it easier for the reader to identify with the actors instead of lining up and matching the names to the cast list. The Amazon links as I agree are just there to provide release and content information. There's no marketing offer stated in the article to buy anything. I could have even used another ecommerce site like Barnes and Noble to just provide DVD or CD content inclusion info. DeWaine (talk) 00:29, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: DVD extras are not lede material as they have nothing to do with the subject of the article. If they are to be mentioned at all they belong in the "Home media" section. Links to sales websites as refs or external links are usually deprecated. You should check on the current state of play regarding them here Wikipedia talk:Citing sources. MarnetteD | Talk 02:36, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll look further into trying to find other refs, although I don't believe it's really necessary under the circumstances. I only added them to basically reference a release date etc. Not to inject spam in the article. As far as the Blu-ray lead deletion, I didn't revert it, but I did read the WP:MOSFILM guidelines regarding the lead introductory paragraph sections as you suggested, and I cannot say I've found what you claim. Correct me if I'm wrong; I might have missed it, but I did not find a single guideline that mentions what you said. I did find a sentence saying the following though: Succeeding paragraphs in the lead section should cover important aspects of the film detailed in the article body and not mentioned already in the first paragraph. These include milestones or major events in the film's production, prominent themes, reception of the film by critics and audiences, box office grosses and milestones, controversies, summary of awards and honors, spin-offs (e.g., sequels, remakes, other media), and any significant impact the film has made in society. Can you explain or substantiate that change? DeWaine (talk) 01:52, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: DVD extras have nothing to do with the making of, milestones, major events etc. of a film. especially one made before DVD technology existed. They are, for the most part, an item to help market the DVD. MarnetteD | Talk 03:15, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll leave out the sentence, but I strongly disagree with what your saying. Typical Blu-ray or DVD versions of films contain pieces such as the making of the film. The purpose of the sentence was not to detail an entire list of every single feature of the Blu-ray disc. It was simply meant as a creative addition to supplement the lead. I also didn't think you adequately explained the issue especially when the WP:MOSFILM page notes: (e.g., sequels, remakes, other media) can be included in the lead. But it's not a big deal. I'll leave it out. DeWaine (talk) 02:37, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Home media isn't usually included in the lede.  We haven't included its releases in other formats i.e. video/DVD/broadcast so there is no real justification for including the blu-ray release either. If the blu-ray icludes some relevant production material then it can sourced directly in the production section. Betty Logan (talk) 06:06, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  My recent edits 

message: :Where is the source that says Bob Peak created the film poster?  I can't verify it, thus I don't know if it's true or not.  —Mike Allen  03:58, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe thats an error as well. I'm not sure who inserted that. I never found a source for it either. I'll delete it. DeWaine (talk) 03:03, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Film poster 

message: Here are a couple of references that have chapters about Silverado that could be used for the article. If there are any visual elements, then a screenshot could be uploaded to illustrate the context.
*Living the dream : a collection of essays from film school
*They went thataway : redefining film genres : a National Society of Film Critics video guide
In addition, there is this book that has a page about Silverado, which I have uploaded here. It may be worth including a screenshot of Kline and Glover together to illustrate the context. Erik (talk | contribs) 16:13, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Critical analysis 

message: I removed a passage from the "Critical response" section that referenced a Time Out review authored by someone named CPea. The author should be reliable, and I think a pseudonym like "CPea" is suspect. While CPea has written other reviews, there is no biographical information, and I'm concerned that the so-called critic may be an amateur with a nickname. Erik (talk | contribs) 02:01, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The TimeOut Magazine website does not seem to shed any light on who the exact identity of this author is. Although it does also seem peculiar that many of the articles written by this critic were about films from the 1980s. DeWaine (talk) 01:19, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  CPea 

message: There is no reason to refer to Danny Glover as a "negro cowboy" unless the full story of the bar scene is told, which is unnecessary.  Sheriff Langton tells him to leave town because he broke the law, not because he's black.  Furthermore, use of the word "negro" is offensive and stupid. ---The Old JacobiteThe '45 12:54, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree whole heartedly. Do we refer to the others as "white cowboys"? MarnetteD|Talk 14:16, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The character Mal is a Negro. Negro is the correct term for his race. Negro is also the correct term for the time in history the movie occurs. The reason Mal is refused service in the bar by the bar owner is because he's a Negro. The reason he's ordered out of town by the sheriff is because he's a negro.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by DAVFUR (talk • contribs) 12:08, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: You are correct about the bar owner, but that part of the story isn't in the plot.  But, the sheriff never says anything about Mal's race or skin color.  Nor should we.  Your opinion about what "is the correct term for his race" is irrelevant. ---The Old JacobiteThe '45 12:21, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  "negro cowboy"