Talk:Liu Seong Kuntao

message: this article will eventually have a list of schools and practitioners of Liu Seong. anyone who wants to be listed can post their basic info here. -kuntaokid
The school I attend is the Meadville School of Kuntao located in Meadville, PA. It is headed by Grandmaster Robert Servidio. His head instructor and best student is Master Scott Young. Both Robert Servidio and Scott Young have been teaching kuntao to students for the past 50 years together and continue the teachings of Great Grandmaster Willem Reeders. Grandmaster Robert Servidio was Reeder's first student and is teaching the complete and entire kuntao system that of Reeders. Many students at this particular school have been training here for as much as 10-20 years with some that have trained for 30-50 years. The school has several high level black belt students who also assist with the instruction on a weekly basis. Sifu Chris Derbaum also receives training from Master Scott Young and has done much to promote the art of Liu Seong Kuntao. Sifu Derbaum has done many seminars all over the United States and has even done seminars in other countires including Singapore and France. - Brad  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.239.120.153 (talk) 20:24, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Greetings Kuntaokid. I am not an Admin, so I don't know anything about ISPs getting blocked. The history of an article lists all the changes made to a page over its lifetime, when those changes were made, and who made them. The history of a page can be found at the top of the page on one of the little tabs above the article name. A direct link for this page's history can be found here. --Llort 20:42, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: This article briefly goes into traditions that influence practice of the art, and says:
"The Liu Seong system is culturally derived from the arts of China and Indonesia, and accordingly has tactical elements of both. The adopted cultural aspects, primarily school etiquette, may vary between Chinese and Indonesian terminology and practices, and may even include elements of both."
However, from what I've seen from training with a number of people in this system, many of the "terminology and practice" aspects of the art come from Japanese culture.  I don't know if it's because of the considerable exposure Master Reeders had to Japanese arts, because of the common terminology changes implemented in Indonesian martial arts when Japan took over and banned non-Japanese martial arts, or because Master Reeders felt that American students were more familiar with Japanese terminology and etiquette.  But for whatever reason, much of the etiquette and even more of the terminology used by most teachers of this system are of Japanese origin.  I'm not sure how best to fold that into the article (if at all) without giving the impression that the art itself may have Japanese roots, which it clearly doesn't. - Erik Harris 13:38, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Cultural and Etiquette influences

message: Wikified as part of the Wikification wikiproject! JubalHarshaw 17:15, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Wikified

message: Some dates to the founding and birth (death?) of Reeders are necessary.  For all a casual reader knows this art was founded yesterday and is practiced in one place.  Until that's addressed there will be a question of notability. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PRehse (talk • contribs) 
:Done (birth/death years listed).  Pinning down the date of founding would be tricky to say the very least.  Like so many other family systems, its history is one of constant evolution, compounded by the fact that the system, if that word really applies, is sometimes referred to as a "broken mirror art."  If you go to three different teachers within the art, you'll likely find three different versions of the art (partly due to differing personalities, but largely due to the very individualized nature of Reeders' teaching.  He taught everyone something a bit different), though the ties between them will be clear.  Also, I'd note that anyone who read the article and saw that the three dated references are from 1986, 1996, and 1997 will know that this system was not "founded yesterday." :)  I'll also add something about where the art is practiced, in general terms so as to avoid turning this into a link farm.
:As I've stated on the WikiProject Martial Arts talk page, notability is really tricky in martial arts.  Some arts have a long, public history, but a large number of arts trace their roots to secret societies and possessive (secretive) families or communities.  Documentation often doesn't exist or is closely guarded, even in unquestionably-notable systems, and often, the documentation that is available for those and other systems is unreliable (due to issues of pride, nationality, superstition, cultural tendancies for hyperbole, etc, etc).  Nearly everyone who has spent a decade or so in Indonesian martial arts communities in the United States (at least) is familiar with Reeders and his art, but documented references are hard to come by (I added the only four publicly available documents that I'm aware of - two books by practitioners of the art, and two articles by people outside the art).  Honestly, by overall notability requirements suitable for an encyclopedia, the vast majority of martial arts articles on Wikipedia should be deleted. -Erik Harris 14:04, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Notability

message: A few back-and-forth reverts on the List of martial arts article has caused me to look at this article in a different light, and see a significant problem with it.  The article, as written, makes it appear that Willem Reeders created the Liu Seong Kuntao system, and makes it appear as a distinctly new system.  Given that the art's heritage goes back many, many generations, that's clearly not true.  The art undoubtedly underwent significant evolution in Reeders' time (the infusion of Indonesian influences), and he was ostensibly the first to bring the art into the public, but I'm not convinced that such evolution qualifies the art to be a "modern" system (arbitrarily defined [by who?] as less than 100 years old).  How do we correct this without resorting to original research, given that the art was basically unknown before Reeders' time, and even now, its practitioners largely keep to themselves, severely limiting the amount of historical information available to the public?  We pretty much "credit" Reeders with the systems that he taught (Kuntao and Liu Seong/Siong Royal Chuan Fa), but also acknowledge that the systems themselves predate him.  I've made a few minor edits to try to help clarify this, but I think to really "fix" it, many sections will need more substantive changes, and additional publicly-available sources of information are also needed, as hard as they are to come by for any historically-secretive art. —Erik Harris 15:57, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: System History

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I was one of the few to study and receive my red sash from Liu Seong in New Mexico......did not realize there is so much info on him I was with him for 10 plus years the prodigal son as he joked.. he was more than just the master...there are so many things I could say but not really into the whole online thing suffice to say he was the last from the temple and not that B.S. thing the Chinese are running now...Rick  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.238.72.111 (talk) 15:38, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kung fu