Talk:Marad killings

message: Please find the report retrieved. The report mentions explicit references to Oraganizations and individuals  
59.145.142.36 13:38, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  commission Enquiry report 

message: Please dont drag different organisaitons and individuals to the issue. It has to be either ruled by court or police report. For example in the Marad - Joseph Commisson Report  There is no refereces to the parties and groups that were refered in the previous versions. 
The incident narration was partial. I have added the correct details based on the facts -- Sundaram7 13:36, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please see WP:Notability. We can put as many notable allegations as we want. The facts are only admissible as facts when they are cited by reliable sources, not by terrorist mass murderers like NDF. Lionheart5 14:48, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  user:sundaram7 is trying to put the facts only and Lionheart5 is trying to put back the allegations. Please remove the allegations of BJP, CPM and other party in the article. Also please remove the statements of Pinarayi from the article. This is not the place to put the daily statements of political parties. There should be some credible evidences from court or enquiry agency. Why Lionheart5 is not commenting something related to Joseph Commisson Report  that was cited by Sundaram7? Also Lionheart5 has put wrong information about Aboobacker who was killed in front of police as the news sources says. He was not shot by Police. But he was stabbed by criminals in front of police as reported by refereces. Please explan what is POV and what are the allegations here before you change the article -- Truehindu 18:03, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia is not about "The Truth", it's about Verifiability. Lionheart5 23:33, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

text:  Adding to my previous points, There is no references says that the Muslim woman blocked the entrance of Mosque. This is a clear vandal and POV from the editor. This is an attempt to put vandalism and it is clear from the hindu news that Cases have been registered against 40 women, including the district secretary of the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), Uma Unni, under Section 353 (obstructing public servants from discharging officials duty) of the Indian Penal of Code (IPC). as reported by Hindu.. Also in the leadership of Uma Unni, there was a violence to stop the peaceful visit of A.K. Antony to this RSS Liberated Area  --- Sundaram7 14:03, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

text: The Uma Unni incident has nothing to do with the NDF perpetrated massacre other than it was something that occured much later.Bakaman 08:21, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Dont divert, come to the point:It looks like some editors has some intension to divert the topic to something else. Did i mention about the party in my paragraph? I am talking about the argument of editor Mulsim women blocked the entrance to the mosque where the terrorists were hiding, which was invented by some editors here. It is defenitely an information imagined by the editors. We are not talking about the party here. --- Sundaram7 13:26, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  allegations should not be put 

message: This report was tabled in the kerala  assembly around late 2006, and the details as well as reccomendations had made headlines in all the august Print and visual media. It has explicitly pointed out role of individuals ,organizations and political parties in the riots which happened in 2 phases. The only instance where commission could not substantiate with evidance was the role of foreign organizations, and for this it has recommended an enquiry by CBI.
This reccomendation was forwarded by the Kerala home ministry to the central Buraeu Of Investigations , which had turned it down subsequently stating that a partial enquiry on the whole issue may not provide feasible results.    
<<All these can be verified through news reports of TOI, NewIndExpress, Hindu>> —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.145.142.36 (talk • contribs) 16:11, 30 Aug 2007
: After reading the Thomas Commission report, I was not able to see presence of extremist outfits with foreign links as put by somebody in the article. The news paper put their Point of Views on the commission report. But as the report is available to read and comment, there is no need to put such WP:POVs in WP. So I removed the portion The report talks about the presence of extremist outfits with foreign links operating in Kerala, and slams the current and previous state Governments for their failure to take any effective action against these elements, being ‘‘interested only in the vote banks.’’. -- Sundaram7 10:28, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is also found that the evidences by  Special Branch  is just a POV. No such point is noted in the report. Read the full report for the details as referred in the article. So removing portion: Enquiry commission states with evidence provided by Special Branch of police about physical training classes conducted by NDF even in the night at Marad beach ,it also mentions these classes are attended by Muslim youths alone and taken by persons who came from outside. -- Sundaram7 10:40, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Justice Thomas P Joseph report 

message: * 2 on one side and 3 on the other side do not look much like a massacre. Best leave this page at Marad killings. Anthony Appleyard 18:38, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The massacre was 9 on one side. I think you are mistaking it for the riots that happened before the massacre. Massacre is the title used by the official Thomas P. Joseph Commission as well. . It is also the more popular title among mainstream news sources.Bakaman 00:43, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Word used by official Thomas P. Joseph Commission is "massacre", as pointed by Bakasuprman, hence it is improper to change it. -VJha 14:57, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

text: What is the justification for changing it from Massace to Killings?  I would like to see when/where it is used this way and some supporting citations Kkm5848 15:58, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Mainstream sources and newspapers predominately called it "Marad Massacre", as did the government's Joseph Commission. That's likely due to the nature of the deaths, and not the number of them. Regardless, "Marad Massacre" is the official and predominately used name, and therefore should be the name of the article. (Ghits for "Marad killings" = 455, for "Marad massacre" = 1510.) ॐ Priyanath talk 01:14, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If the "official" commission(the ones who investigated it and hence should know it best) calls it a 'massacre', then is must be a massacre.  And intuitively also, a massacre is a lot different from a 'killing'.  For one, people can get 'killed' accidentally.. but cant get 'massacred' accidentally. Sarvagnya 01:42, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Support the word "Massacre" over "killings" as per above.-Bharatveer 07:49, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with the above comments, and it is clear that there is no consensus for a move. -- Karl Meier 08:18, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Utter nonsense. As i state above:" In any case, references using massacre are a fraction of the references to the Marad murders; GNews archive drags up   on a search for Marad AND (Muslims OR NDF OR killings OR murder OR kerala OR CBI OR carnage OR hindus OR BJP OR RSS) turns up 1170 hits! So your claim of numbers on your side is absolutely worthless. Under such circumstances, when GNews archive for (Marad AND killings) gives exactly the same results as (Marad AND massacre), it is clear that the more neutral, accurate, and appropriate title be chosen: definitely, in fact, the one that has no doubt about its applicability. These were definitely killings. It may not have been a massacre by everyone's standards, since some people may believe that eight people does not count as such. "Hornplease 23:25, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

text: I love how you like to do things totally random and unjustified...doing a google news search for marad AND (Killings or murders) turns up 202 results while doing a search for marad AND (Massacre) turns up 207.  Finally, doing a google news search for Marad AND (massacre AND (Killings or murders) ) turns up 42 results.  The result -- 155 articles that call it murder or killings, the rest refer to it as massacre...so, do you feel that despite the fact that news articles do tend to refer to it as massacre more than just killings or murders and the fact that the official commissions/etc refer to it as massacre, that killings are more appropriate?  Kkm5848 04:47, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moves to/from [[2002 Marad masssacre]]