Talk:Canada in the War in Afghanistan

message: Apr 22/06 casualties listed under March. Also all ranks are abrieviated for said event except Bombadier...changed to keep consistant. Motorfix 17:14, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Untitled comment from 23 May 2006 

message: According to this article all Canadians have done since March 2006 is get injured and killed.  Leave it to CBC to focus on body counts (and Tim Hortons in theatre).  How about some information on what Canadian soldiers are actually doing?  --M4-10 22:52, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OPSEC might preclude some info, but I agree with the sentiment that the "article" is really just an unveiled mortality count.Michael Dorosh 00:21, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the main problem is with sentences like "Canadian forces undertake Operation Harpoon as part of Operation Anaconda in the Shah-i-Kot Valley.", and they just wikilink to the actual in-depth articles. It would be nice to have a one-paragraphy summary of what each operation was inside this article, so the reader has a clear idea. Sherurcij (Speaker for the Dead)  01:04, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

text:  I have noticed this as well. The article is our role in the invasion, but it doesn't discuss our role in detail. It is more a timeline of events. I'll see if I can work on this a bit.Motorfix 15:16, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps we need Timeline of the Canadian forces in Afganistan, or something, and this article properly cleaned up?  It's horrible right now. -b 18:15, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Untitled discussion from 16 July 2006 

message: Does anyone know what the Canadian military's total expenditure has been so far in Afghanistan ever since 2001? A number and a source would be appreciated. I tried to find it myself, but couldn't find any specific numbers. Perhaps it should even be something to add to the article.
:I doubt you'll find it.  The mission cost was brought up recently by politicians but there were major disagreements over what should be included.  --M4-10 18:37, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Expenditure for Afghanistan 

message: I'm going to move from a list to a table, to explore in more detail each death and circumstance. -b 18:44, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps start a new page? List of Canadians killed? Motorfix 03:31, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: List of Canadians killed in Afganistan or List of Canadian Fatalities in Afganistan? -b 03:52, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Either one would be a candidate for deletion. "Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of lists." The article as is seems very unencyclopedic and a list would be moreso. I had a listing of fatal casualties at Crescent Heights High School that was removed for the same reason - basically, it is not appropriate for an encyclopedia. I'd even be in favour of deleting the names altogether, not only is it morbid, but it actually seems disrespectful given that the only information in this article has to do with who died and not with what the soldiers are accomplishing over there.Michael Dorosh 03:58, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Michael. We do not have to mention name for name every soldier killed. Each death is it's own tragedy, but can you picture what the US Invasion of Iraq page would look like if they named each loss? Even the timeline of events doesn't say much. I'd love to edit or help, but alas, as the father of two busy boys...I barely have time for a game of combat mission these days! Motorfix 04:19, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've rewritten the page and done a quick bit of research on the various missions - will need fleshing out and corrections, but it is a start. The info on fatalities does not belong in the main text and so I've moved some of it to the fatality listing. I won't ask you for a Combat Mission setup then, either. ;-)  Michael Dorosh 04:48, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Agree, for the record.  Good start Michael.  By the way, what's with the title of the article?  The invasion was so 2001.  --M4-10 00:10, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. Don't know what is up with the title, was set up this way. We could change it if we wanted.Michael Dorosh 04:00, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it looks very good, and the thought occurred to me as well the info might be better presented as a table. I'm still unsure that the casualties should receive so much focus. They deserve a mention but may not be encyclopedic per WP standards. For now, I would say go ahead and complete the table - it's very nicely done. I suppose if there are objections to it we can discuss at that time and cross the bridge when we come to it. If the information really is seen to be encylopedic, the table offers a much better and accessible format. At some point we may want to include a column for photographs, as well.Michael Dorosh 13:20, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Unless anyone has any problems, I'll be moving it from the sandbox to the article sometime tomorrow. -b 03:27, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm a bit uneasy about the latest entry. "Accidental discharge" makes it sound like he himself was at fault - not a great way to remember him. The correct term, "negligent discharge", makes it sound even worse. I think it would be closer to the truth to just say "non-combat death" or "accidental death" as it requires the least explanation.Michael Dorosh 03:33, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

text: See comments in your sandbox talk page regarding a suggested place to move it and some minor adjustments.Cheers,
Motorfix 03:42, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Wasn't aware of Costall. No we should not wait for the results, that is speculation.  Also, An accidental discharge is not "friendly fire", I raised this subject a few days ago in your sandbox.  See also negligent discharge.Michael Dorosh 20:47, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fatalities 

message: An inquiry into his death was recently concluded , and while we have to wait for the results, shouldn't it still be included?  Also, and this is ignorance, isn't an accidental discharge considered friendly fire? -b 19:04, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wasn't aware of Costall. No we should not wait for the results, that is speculation.  Also, An accidental discharge is not "friendly fire", I raised this subject a few days ago in your sandbox.  See also negligent discharge.Michael Dorosh 20:47, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Private Costall, friendly fire

message: I have added info on our diplomatic history a bit. Worthwile, or not? Motorfix 22:59, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think so. Good work today. Michael Dorosh 23:42, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Political Aspect

message: Current gov. website with info on all Missions and deployments.
http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=1703
Motorfix 23:10, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Good Material

message: Might it be worthwile to list units and military organization of Canadian Forces in Afghanistan?
Perhaps on a seperate page?
Motorfix 16:18, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The units change every 6 months, and every regular force infantry, armour, and field artillery unit has or will get a go.  --M4-10 19:07, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As well, individual augmentees from reserve units get mentioned frequently in the news, which is no doubt confusing to most of the public - for example, a fellow from the Loyal Edmonton Regiment was seriously injured today in the G-Wagen accident that unfortunately killed another soldier. (I see CTV has referred to it as the "Royal Edmonton Regiment").  There would be no way to track which reserve units were contributing; my own unit has deployed about two dozen soldiers alone. Should they be mentioned? I don't believe there is any publicly available information on which unit has reservists deployed though I do understand they are over there serving directly with PPCLI, RCR, etc.  I realize the press is publishing the names of units as is the official Army website so security is not an issue, but is it really encyclopedic to keep a running tally even of just the major units involved? It seems like a lot of extraneous detail which is being done in lieu of substantial information relating to the mission itself.Michael Dorosh 19:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well said. -b 23:28, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It would be interesting to see a streamlined list of the Battle Groups organized according to their change of command dates. MC —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Marccote (talk • contribs) 16:05, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Units

message: As above, the title of this article is completely outdated.  It definitely needs a new title.  Suggestions? -b 03:23, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name change 

message: Hi, I looked this article up because I'm currently undecided about Canada's role in Afghanistan, and wanted to learn more. However, the article is extremely vague, and details the mechanics of Canada's involvement, more than the reasons for it/arguments supporting/condemning it. A brief disection of our 3 missions there would be great, too. "Defending our national interests?" That's rather vague, and really not helpful. What are our national interests, and why? What will be the reprecussions for having those interests, and who in Parliament supports them? Those sorts of things seem far more important and encyclopedic than a list of the casualties, which, to be honest, is cluttering to the article. Perhaps a seperate article, "Canadian Casualties in Afghanistan" should be made, since there's really no point to listing off each individual who has died in the confrontation; as thoughtful as it is, in the long run, I find it irrelevant.
-Jackmont, Aug 10
:While I agree about the casualty list and strongly agree that we should have more information about what has and what is happening there, I disagree about for/against arguments, as they are unencyclopedic.  "Canada's role in the invasion of Afghanistan" (an awful title) is just one major part of larger Liberal and Conservative foreign policy regarding the Middle East and the War on Terrorism and the foreign policy considerations are beyond the scope of this article.  --M4-10 05:28, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly. Our role as editors is not to advocate a political position but to report facts in as balanced a manner as possible and allow the reader to interpret them for themselves. The article should not betray any one side - see WP:NPOV.Michael Dorosh 05:34, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  For/Against arguments? 

message: Why are there so few links to this page throughout Wikipedia? All the Afghan war templates link to the article on "Canada" which seems idiotic - can we not change them to link to this article instead?
:Be wp:bold and do it; sign your talk posts, too. Annihilatron (talk) 17:58, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Links 

message: "On October 28, 2006, anti-war groups from across Canada organised rallies in 40 cities and towns.  Themes of the demonstrations included demands that the troops be brought home from Afghanistan and demands that the mission of the Canadian Forces in that country shift from a combat role to a peace keeping and humanitarian presence.  Participation varied from city to city, with some demonstrations attracting a handful of people, and others attracting several hundred. Canoe News article about Oct. 28th, 2006 Peace Protests reference link has been removed. needs reference 65.95.139.186 01:51, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Mike McGregor (Can) 18:26, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference rot 

message: What would you guys think of some sort of table showing a timeline of when the specific units were deployed? I was thinking either by battalions or brigade group. Mike McGregor (Can) 01:51, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If there is a similar timeline regarding the Brit and USA deployments in other articles, then it makes sense to me; but if it's just done here and nowhere else, it seems to me to be too introspective. Mr.grantevans2 12:10, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  timeline of unit deployments? 

message: i deleted this disgusting comment
And I am going to repeat it, because you have no right to hide or cover it up.
The fact is that what Canadians need to know is that as part of bringing stability to Afghanistan that our military is helping the Afghan people partake in traditional activies which Canadians find disgusting and even illegal - such as organized dog fighting.  I for one find it disgusting that the expenditure of my tax dollars and the deaths of dozens of Canadian soldiers is helping to allow Afghans to conduct and enjoy such a terrible activity such as dog fighting.
If you think I'm making this up, you simply have to look here:
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=afghanistan+%22dog+fighting%22&meta=  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.49.243.145 (talk) 03:43, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Boo-hoo - human lives are more important than dogs, don't you think?  I love how some oppose Canada's participation by crying that we are imposing our values on them, while others cry that we aren't imposing them enough!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.63.224.84 (talk) 17:12, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dogfighting in Afghanistan:  Canada's miliary should be proud 

message: Major Fletcher commanded C company of the PPCLI battlegroup and serves in Edmonton. He is clearly a PPCLI officer. Capt Derek x from Saskatchewan was an infantry platoon commander as a lieutenant with the same battalion in April 2006, according to press reports,attended McGill in Montreal which has noted his award, and serves in the West. He also has to be a Patricia, although it is less clear what he was doing in Afghanistan in Sept 2006, when the RCR had already taken over - perhaps he volunteered to stay on for a while as LO to the Americans.Too bad no one can confirm this.   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.201.119.194 (talk) 03:48, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  March 28/2008 

message: There are two Canadian winners of Medal of valour decorations, whose regiment is not mentioned. This is because (!) no one knows, which is indeed shameful or (2) because they are/were with Special Forces, whose secrecy was recently ridiculed by Gen. McNeill who sees no need for it and thinks that Canadian accomplishments whould be noted. If a Canadian receives an honour, it is in order to publicise his deed. It is preposterous to make an award, issue a press release, but then say it is secret!!! Please, for someone who is no longer subject to the childish constraints of DND, please indicate the Regiments or Branch that these obviously heroic officers belong to. 
24.201.119.194 (talk) 01:46, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  March 18/2008 

message: The DOD page for Afghanistan Casualties includes Cpl. Downey, as do most media sources. That's good enough for me. I'm going to go ahead and add it so that the numbers match up to our sources. If there's any disagreement, please post your rational here and feel free to alter the article. Mike McGregor (Can) (talk) 17:06, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  accounted for Camp Mirage death (out of country death).  

message: The last ref in the last row of this table is to an item about Mike Frastacky, not about the deaths of the women listed in the last row of the table.
Please check this and fix.  I'm not going to edit this in case I mess up the table format.  Wanderer57 (talk) 18:25, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed. 74.12.222.8 (talk) 20:13, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Non-military deaths table 

message: Canadian national abducted last month Sherurcij (speaker for the dead)  18:43, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Kidnappings of Canadians

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thread_title: Image copyright problem with File:Coat of arms of Canada.svg

message: I just added a sub-section for the charges against Capt. Semrau. Please edit it for POV mercilessly. Any feedback or changes are more then welcome. Mike McGregor (Can) (talk) 06:32, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Section was re-added, apparently it had been blanked. Not too sure why. Mike McGregor (Can) (talk) 16:05, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  murder charges 

message: the #4 in the reference list is broken, it goes to a non-article page in CBC.ca The correct link is here:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/09/15/tanks-afghanistan.html
I have no idea on how to edit a ref-list, though I'll look for that. If someone can change it before I do, you get a cookie.
:Fixed, thanks. I'll take that cookie now ;) Sherurcij (speaker for the dead)  23:55, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference List 

message: Mike McGregor (Can) (talk) 04:32, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  just a link for later reference 

message: For example, there doesn't seem to be any mention of the big prison break that occurred in Kandahar that Canadian troops were called to, or of Canadian troops fighting again for the same ground.
74.12.220.35 (talk) 07:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not much there for developments after 2006 

message: The statement "the Canadian request for more troops was granted when 800 U.S soldiers arrived" is unsourced and unverifiable. That unsourced statement was replaced with information that is directly and accurately supported by the cited source.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.12.220.52 (talk) 23:11, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unsourced statement 

message: I've been bold and forked the financial cost of the war; it was giving WP:UNDUE to this article, and clogging up the page which is already heavily over-saturated with information and numbers. I'm never in favour of removing information, so I've simply moved it to Financial cost of Canada's role in the invasion of Afghanistan. Feel free to argue about the name, or more importantly, to help FORK out other large parts of this article that deserve/belong in separate articles. Sherurcij (speaker for the dead)  16:50, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Forking cost

message: Is anyone up for adding a bit of info about the latest developments around Richard Colvin's recent testimony to the House Committee? Mike McGregor (Can) (talk) 18:26, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Detainee scandal needs an update 

message: I want to add a table listing the commanders of JTFA but I do not have a complete list. Can anyone fill in the blanks? 
October 2001-April 2002 Commodore Jean-Pierre Thiffault 
April 2002-Nov 2002 Brigadier-General Michel Gauthier  
Nov 2002-May 2003 Brigadier-General Angus Watt  
May 2003-Aug 2003 Brigadier-General Dennis Tabbernor  
Nov 2006-July 2007 Maj.-Gen Tim Grant  
July 2007-May 2008 Brigadier-General Guy Laroche  
May 2008-Feb 2009 Brigadier-General Denis Thompson  
Feb 2009-Nov 2009 Brigadier-General Jonathan Vance  
Nov 2009-May 2010 Brigadier-General Daniel Ménard  acting Colonel Simon Hetherington
June 2010-August 2010 Brigadier-General Jonathan Vance  
Sept 2010-Present Brigadier-General Dean J. Milner   
-- jfry3 (talk) 02:21, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Commander joint task force Afghanistan

message: I notice that the totals in the fatalities section often fall behind the totals on the Canadian Forces casualties in Afghanistan and  Coalition casualties in Afghanistanpages because editors often forget to visit and update this page as a new fatality occurs. It sort of causes a problem where the three pages tracking these totals contradict each other. Would there be any objections to removing the military fatality totals completely from this page and just leaving the links to the other two pages and the civilian fatality table?   Mike McGregor (Can) (talk) 20:00, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fatalities section 

message: Just wondering why the CH-47 is in the equipment list, when they wont be delivered to the CF until after the 2011 departure? Every other item on that list, so far as I can tell, is currently in use in Afghanistan. (MH (talk) 01:06, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The CH-47 were transferred from the US to the Canadian Forces in 2008 and have been operational in Afghanistan ever since. One was involved in a "hard landing" incident recently.  CET  ♔  01:25, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  CH-47 in equipment list 

message: Under the list of equipment used there is both "IAI Heron - new/leased" and "Leopard 2 - leased and new". 'New/leased' and 'leased and new' seem to be the same thing and I'd normally fix it in a heartbeat, but I'm not 100% that they don't have subtly different meanings. Can someone who knows what they're talking about back me up/correct me? Asplod McGunpowders (talk) 00:23, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Equipment List Formatting 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061004011130/http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1108317447589_3/?hub=Canada to http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1108317447589_3/?hub=Canada
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110706181734/http://www.comfec.forces.gc.ca/pa-ap/ops/saiph/index-eng.asp to http://www.comfec.forces.gc.ca/pa-ap/ops/saiph/index-eng.asp
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110228070006/http://www.comfec.forces.gc.ca/pa-ap/ops/pastops-eng.asp to http://www.comfec.forces.gc.ca/pa-ap/ops/pastops-eng.asp
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100111144704/http://www.comfec-cefcom.forces.gc.ca/pa-ap/ops/fs-fr/omlt-eng.asp to http://www.comfec-cefcom.forces.gc.ca/pa-ap/ops/fs-fr/omlt-eng.asp
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111010124123/http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20060506/conservative_poll_060506/ to http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20060506/conservative_poll_060506/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110901075254/http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story.html?id=f8726d2c-1363-4c47-b47c-afa0083b33bc to http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story.html?id=f8726d2c-1363-4c47-b47c-afa0083b33bc
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130524051829/http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/mobil/news-nouvelles-fra.asp?id=3695 to http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/mobil/news-nouvelles-fra.asp?id=3695
*Added  tag to http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060725/afghanistan_tmurder_060725/20060725
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140806022259/http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhr-ddhr/chc-tdh/chart-tableau-eng.asp?ref=CinCCommendation to http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhr-ddhr/chc-tdh/chart-tableau-eng.asp?ref=CinCCommendation
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150525022659/http://www.army-armee.forces.gc.ca/en/news-publications/national-news-details-no-menu.page?doc=news-release-the-calgary-highlanders-receive-canadian-forces-unit-commendation%2Fi3yarg2d to http://www.army-armee.forces.gc.ca/en/news-publications/national-news-details-no-menu.page?doc=news-release-the-calgary-highlanders-receive-canadian-forces-unit-commendation%2Fi3yarg2d
*Added archive https://archive.is/20070207102921/http://www.gg.ca/media/doc.asp?lang=e&DocID=4905 to http://www.gg.ca/media/doc.asp?lang=e&DocID=4905
*Added  tag to http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070523/helicopter_pilot_070523/20070523?hub=TopStories
*Added  tag to http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090106/soldier_hearing_090106/20090106?hub=TopStories
*Added  tag to http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/news-nouvelles/view-news-afficher-nouvelles-eng.asp?id=3118
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080420062905/http://www.mapleleafweb.com/features/canada-afghanistan-military-and-development-activities to http://www.mapleleafweb.com/features/canada-afghanistan-military-and-development-activities
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140512151929/http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=847119 to http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=847119
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 10:44, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The labeling of rotations and operations by DND is a bit confusing, and consequently an error has crept into the article. 
Op ATHENA did not end in 2005 but seems to have been merely interrupted. Op ARCHER came into effect On 7 Oct 2004 and, under its umbrella, a Theatre Activation Team, the PRT, and 700 other troops from CFB Petawawa  moved to Kandahar from late 2005 to early 2006. More troops arrived in February 2006, including the brigade headquarters. However, when the Canadians operating under Op ARCHER came under command of ISAF in July 2006, "the operation name was returned to Op ATHENA, although the rotation numbers carried on from Op ARCHER." The references I have seen on DND bulletins thereafter have called the Canadian operation in Kandahar from 2006 to 2011 as "Op ATHENA, PHASE 2."
Op ARCHER continued but was now comprised only the staff officers at the Combined Security Transition Command - Afghanistan (CSTC-A) in Kabul.
This does take some mental gymnastics to sort out and this change in naming of operations was rarely referred to.
The source of all this is a bulletin from DND's Directorate of History & Heritage entitled "Details/Information for Canadian Forces (CF) Operation ARCHER" http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/od-bdo/asia/ARCHER-eng.asp.
As a result of all of the above, a number of significant changes have to be made to the present original version of this page.
Bfowler613 (talk) 18:57, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Error in Scope of Op ARCHER 

message: I took a stab at rewriting this. Quite new around here, so feedback welcome.
Also not sure how the Medak pocket incident ties into the rest of the section / article, it felt a bit non sequitur to begin with and not sure I did much here to make a clearer connection.Razvan (talk) 20:38, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Canadian experience in nation-building and sector reform" section and encyclopedic tone