Talk:Augustan literature

message: Did the name really derive from King George wishing to be known as Caesar Augustus?  Or did it derive solely from the comparison to the Augustan Age of Latin literature?
:To the best of my knowledge it derived from the Hanoverian "Augustus" thing.  However, even nailing down the first usage of the term as a critical application is difficult.  We have Pope's Epistle to Augustus, which is contemporary, and it's fairly deviously clear with the royal application.  Geogre 13:43, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The term "Augustan"

message: #Ok, first thing is that the history section is too danged long.  I know it.  It's just that the reason "no one" reads 18th c. literature is not that it's boring, but that it's incomprehensible.  It is, too, unless you know who was who at every moment of every year.  I.e. history turns this stuff from being impenetrable to being a ton of fun.
#The ordering of the genres: it's arguable that poetry was more important, but it was more important for about 20 years.  Since the Augustan era covers a vast stretch, I'd go for prose being most important.  By 1750, the novel is clobbering poetry, and it gets worse from there.  Also, the drama is wretched beyond compare after 1737.  Before 1737, it's mildly interesting with a couple of whopper good plays.  A couple of whoppers isn't enough, IMO, to put it on par with poetry. Geogre 14:48, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Why I done it

message: why is the word "nebulous" linked in the summary (and hence on the wikipedia main page)?--i can't figure out how to change it...
:No clue.  I think that's just Wiki-itis.  I'm going to wait for the article to be off the main page before I scale back the over-linking, as a great many folks want to help an article and do so by making things links that perhaps aren't necessary.  I appreciate their input and don't want to revert them.  So long as it's harmless, it's no big deal. Geogre 13:49, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  nebulous? 

message: from the current
Therefore, young people from the country often moved to London in hopes of achieving success, and this swelled the numbers of criminals, prostitutes, beggars, and malnourished poor in the city. It also increased the availability of cheap labor for city employers. The fears of property crime, rape, and starvation found in Augustan literature should be kept in the context of London's growth, as well as the depopulation of the countryside.
to (change highlighted)
Therefore, young people from the country often moved to London in hopes of achieving success, and this swelled the supply of cheap labour for city employers. It also increased the numbers of criminals, prostitutes, beggars, and the malnourished poor in the city. The fears of property crime, rape, and starvation found in Augustan literature should be kept in the context of London's growth, as well as the depopulation of the countryside.
this makes the supply of cheap labour the principal effect, and the increase in criminals ... etc, ancillary. this seems to be the more likely scenario. is there any reason to believe it was in fact the other way roun? -- Doldrums 13:44, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I rather like your re-ordering.  I do have reason to suspect that you have the pool of poor and then pool of labor, as the labor (the jobs) didn't exist prior to the supply -- a common enough situation where there is agricultural displacement and the rapid growth of a single city even today.  However, logically, your reordering is far superior to my original, and I had no desire to really imply causality anyway. Geogre 13:52, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  rephrasing in Political and religious historical context 

message: Just a note for any readers of this page that Sentimental novel needs help.  For my part, I loathe the sentimental novel and fear that I would have a hard time keeping my POV out of it (and I mean my scholarly POV, not my personal one).  I know that feminist students of the 18th c. novel have had kinder things to say about it, or at least found interesting features, so I hope those more kindly disposed toward the sentimental will see this note and go help.  My own predelictions, as may be obvious from this article, are Marxissant (actually, Jaussian reception aesthetics, if anyone knows what those are) and, as a student of the early period, I am so steeped in political readings that my brain is too small to hold the psychological and cultural background necessary for being fair (or even polite) about the sentimental.  Geogre 15:02, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sentimental novel 

message: I see you removed the tag. We will see if the people on the talk page are just "talking" or whether they are willing to put some work where their mouth is. Hope it is that latter, and the knowledgeable people who know the material will fix. My last tag, before User:Privatemusings removed the current tag,  was removed with the edit summary "Idiotic challenge; do some READING". This was the attitude of the Augustan drama supporters which led to the downfall of the article. Additionally I was personally attacked. Is that going to be the atmosphere here or are the commenting editors actually interested in the article remaining FA?  Regards, —Mattisse (Talk) 20:01, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You might have a problem, since this article has been accepted under Wiki 0.5 print edition and will not be overturned. So even if people now remove the star, it is already fixed as being a Featured Article. Ottava Rima (talk) 20:24, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That has nothing to do with this discussion. This discussion is about whether Augustan literature currently meets the Featured article criteria. That CD was a while ago and standards have risen since. Currently they are working on the 0.7 edition and article choice is not based on FA status. Recently they had a drive to get GA articles included on the DVD list at least up to GA standards. Selection is based on subject matter befitting an encyclopedia.  —Mattisse (Talk) 20:50, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm referring to the sentiments of contributors and reviewers. Ottava Rima (talk) 21:00, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

text: "Risen" since?  Oh, yes.  They have "risen."  Matisse, I understand that you wish to target all of my FA's.  That's ok.  I don't believe in the FA system, so long as FAR exists the way that it does.  Would it help you in your quest if I simply made a list of every FA I've worked on?  You might want to go after Ormulum next, or Peterborough Chronicle.  It's obvious that citation is not important and that the standards of FA (citation of any statement likely to be challenged) are still operative at FAC, but not at FAR.  Rather than having FAR conform to FAC, let's just remove everything that has FA status, abolish the entire ratings system (which was always misbegotten and susceptible to petty revenge, as you are demonstrating, and parasitism, as others demonstrate) and assess one another on the quality of what they write, not the numbers they unwrite.  Geogre (talk) 11:21, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article fails  FA criteria  referencing (1c) 

message: The first sentence of the section "Drama" reads:
The "Augustan era" is difficult to define chronologically in prose and poetry, but it is very easy to date its end in drama.  The Augustan era's drama ended definitively in 1737, with the Licensing Act.  Prior to 1737, however, the English stage was changing rapidly from the Restoration comedy and Restoration drama and their noble subjects to the quickly developing melodrama (Munns 97-100).
The main article Augustan drama has the same sentence, but without the citation to Munns. The article Melodrama (linked at the end of the sentence) states that the earliest examples of melodrama are Sigismundus (1753) and Pygmalion (1762). Is there an explanation for this difference? The citation (Munns, 97-100) is not helpful, as it does not mention melodrama. --Robert.Allen (talk) 05:00, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I also searched all of Zwicker (1998) at Google Books for the word "melodrama" and got no hits. --Robert.Allen (talk) 05:08, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Melodrama in "Augustan literature" 

message: "like that of Augustus, when poetry became more mannered, political and satirical than in the era of Julius Caesar."
Not true. Augustan-era Latin literature is characterized by stylistic classicism; "mannered" is a better description of so-called Silver Age literature. As for "political," quite the opposite is true. One of the main questions of Augustan literature is to what extent writers felt it necessary to tamp down free speech as it would've been practiced during the Roman Republic; narrowing of political liberty is exactly what living under Augustus, the first emperor, meant. As for "satirical," satire is one of the genres, perhaps the only genre, that is distinctively Roman; it is characteristic of all periods of Latin literature in antiquity. My understanding was that the English Augustans emulated the perceivedclassicism of their Roman predecessors. Cynwolfe (talk) 16:04, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Augustan literature in ancient Rome 

message: You may notice strange strings of the form link:1 through link:5 on this page. Every time someone
clicks a DAB Solver button to disambiguate a term, and tries to fix it, the term is replaced
by link:n. The original text is not merely obscured but destroyed from the article source text. So, someone must identify all of these and if necessary go through the article history to recover the missing terms.
:Well, you must have experienced some temporary malfunction. It worked now. --Saddhiyama (talk) 10:08, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: DAB Solver Is Destroying This Page

message: The lead doesn't reflect the article: it contains material not found in the article, and does not summarise the sections below.
There appears to be a significant amount of original research. Far more citation is required. Much of the existing citation is inadequately edited.
The general standard of copy-editing is low, e.g. citation, capitalisation, inappropriate American spelling.
The overall reading experience is at the level of an undergraduate essay: disjointed, opinionated and lacking authority. There is a lot of prolixity and irrelevance.
There is no treatment of the foundational topic of the evolution of the styles of thinking and expression in English literature that led to Augustanism, nor any treatment of the Classical models which were taken up. Spicemix (talk) 00:04, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Multiple issues 

message: The lede states that "Augustan literature (sometimes referred to misleadingly as Georgian literature) is a style of British literature produced during the reigns of Queen Anne, King George I, and George II in the first half of the 18th century and ending in the 1740s, with the deaths of Alexander Pope and Jonathan Swift, in 1744 and 1745". However, the article quite often discusses works from the second half of the 18th century, including, amongst others, Johnson's Dictionary (1755), Fielding's Tom Jones (1749), and Tristram Shandy (1759-67). Perhaps the article needs to be re-titled 18th century English literature? Rwood128 (talk) 21:39, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Can anyone explain the inclusion of novels published in the second half of the 18th century here, especially examples of the novel of sentiment? There are also works of philosophy and economics whose inclusion surely needs to be explained. Rwood128 (talk) 13:08, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Works published after the 1740s 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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