Talk:Hook turn

message: I've been trying to find out if the hook turn is/has been used outside of Melbourne. From some discussion here, it seems that:
*the hook turn is (or was at least recently) used by busses in Adelaide - at at least one intersection
: IMO, possible considering that buses in Melbourne also use hook turns at some non-hook turn intersections.  e.g. At the intersection of Hoddle St & Victoria Pde, southbound buses on hoddle st use the leftmost lane to make a right-turn (to head eastbound) on Victoria Pde. Jackk 22:09, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  i'm not sure how someone travelling south turns right and ends up travelling east...? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.171.85.67 (talk) 12:12, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Untrue.  If you have look at the Vicroads website, you can find copies of the actual road laws adopted by parliament.  What was true was that some time ago (recently - i think it was true as late as the 70s), Victorian road law required that left-turning vehicles yield to all traffic, including oncoming traffic making right turns, even at Uncontrolled intersections. Jackk 22:09, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That law changed early 1990s. This left turn rule had nothing to do with hook turns whatsoever. Format 03:26, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I think that was actually the case. While the VicRoads law that you cite is correct, it is for a different thing (giving way to left instead of right turners). Both my father and grandfather swear that hook turns were used at all intersections in "the olden days".  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.185.40.37 (talk) 04:17, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

text: True.  Already included in the article. Jackk 22:09, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

text: South Melbourne's clarendon st. still has hook turns in place, however they're going to be removed shortly: from memory, within the next 6 months. Jackk 22:09, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Use outside Melbourne

message: I don't think the "Controversy" section is really appropriate for this article, unless we can actually verify the information.  
I'd also argue that statements such as "Hook turns are, in reality, one of the easiest right turns to execute, as the drivers do not have to judge a gap between cars coming the other direction" are completely POV.  I happen to also think that it's totally incorrect: to navigate a hook turn properly, a safe driver has to monitor more potential hazards.  You have to watch for traffic from the rear, oncoming traffic, traffic from the left side, pedestrians on your right side, emergency vehicles and trams: the latter three of which have absolute right-of-way.
I'll delete the controversy section in a few days, unless there are any objections.  Cheers.  Jackk 22:09, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: For what it is worth they are not harder, there is little to judge as the driver waits for the traffic light on the road being turned in to turn green. By then, everything else (other traffic, pedestrians) will have stopped. Format (talk) 06:02, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There are currently sections on 'Reasons for Use', 'Australian Usage Details', 'Other Vehicles', 'Controversy' and 'History'. These can probably all be merged into a single section on either Usage or History. I'm happy to do this in a couple of days if there are no objections.  -Paperclip Maximiser (talk) 06:22, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: re Controversy section

message: "A hook turn is a special right-turn manouvre required in parts of Melbourne, Australia. A hook turn is where a motorist turns right at an intersection from the leftmost lane of traffic." I know that Taiwan with right-hand traffic requires motorcyclists to make two-step left turn where :Image:TW-Art065.1.gif is posted. Isn't it a hook turn? I wonder whether the opening sentence of the article is region-centric.--Jusjih 16:06, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possibly region-centric phrases 

message: I am interested in this setup, which seems to be a condensed New Jersey jughandle, except that a hook turn is for driving on the left-side of the road.  Is this comparison correct? --Thisisbossi 01:01, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think so. The jughandle looks like a loop-around, where there's no looping done here -- so the comparison is hook to loop, which isn't right. Dysprosia 01:55, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What I meant by "condensed" is that it's still seems to be the same concept of breaking apart from the mainline on the opposite side from which you intend to turn; then completing your maneuever as if it were a "through" movement, of sorts. --Thisisbossi 04:03, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  There's still a loop which you have to execute from my understanding of the jughandle, which isn't present in the hook turn. Dysprosia 04:07, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Similarity to a New Jersey Jughandle? 

message: As a Canadian driver I'm unfamiliar with the hook turn and have read the article three times to try to understand it.  I think my only questions are 1) Am I correct when I assume that only one or two cars can make the turn with each cycle of the light and 2) Where do additional drivers wait if they are the third or fourth person who wants to make the turn?
Minshullj 02:28, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The first vehicle preparing to turn is required to move as far as practicable into the intersection (not just half way). Any subsequent vehicles are required to form a queue behind the first vehicle. All queued vehicles (whatever number fits) within the intersection then make the turn. If you look at both of the first 2 procedure photos closely, you can see that, in that particular instance, two cars followed by a truck and then another car (4 vehicles in that case) made a hook turn . We will need to  modify the text to clarify this.--Melburnian 03:30, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There are relatively few hook turn intersections in Melbourne. Those intersections designated for the hook turn are generally on large, wide roads, so many vehicles can easily queue, say eight cars. Format (talk) 22:51, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Loose Ends

message: I don't know the history of it, but Palatine Road in the northern suburbs of Chicago has had hook turns (not by name) for decades, from just east of Rand Road in Arlington Heights all the way past Milwaukee Avenue.  In the middle lanes (two each direction), you can only continue straight when the light is green.  If you want to turn into a driveway, turn either left or right onto a crossroad, or make a U-turn, you have to get into the frontage lanes (also two each direction, separated from the express lanes by a median strip except for occasional "exits").  The frontage lanes—i.e. the turn lanes—have their own separate light cycle after the crossroad and before the main express lanes.  I hadn't seen this setup anywhere else, but it seems pretty clear that the only difference between this and the Melbourne hook turn lanes are the extra concrete divider and of course the right/left swap. /blahedo (t) 06:27, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, perusing some satellite views, it looks like the express lane section of Palatine Road has just six intersections, of which three are true expressway-ramp style and the other three are hook turn intersections.  (All the other crossroads in this area dead end into the frontage road.)  Here is a satellite view of one of the hook turn intersections, at Palatine and Wheeling Roads. /blahedo (t) 06:33, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Palatine Road, northeastern Illinois 

message: I've never seen a hook turn intersection in Illinois, nor have I heard of one, nor was any such thing discussed in my Illinois Driver's Ed programme, the Illinois "Rules of the Road" pamphlet, or on the Illinois Written Road Test.  Moreover, Illinois law -- 625 ILCS 5/Ch. 11 Art. VIII -- prohibits hook turn manouvres.
If there were hook turn intersections in Illinois, here would be the requirements (and yes, I'm translating for the fact that in the US vehicles drive on the right side of the road):
1.  It would have to be a 4-way intersection controlled by a standard traffic signal without any turning arrows.
2.  There would be no left-turning lanes at the center of the road.
3.  Instead, there would be a right-turning lane that permitted both left and right turns.  There would be at least one other lane which permited motorists to drive straight ahead, but this would be the only turning lane.
4.  No U-Turns would be permitted at the intersection (as is normal in Illinois).
If a motorist wanted to use the turning lane -- located on the far-right side of the road -- to make a left turn, they would have to enter the turning lane at the far-right side of the road and roll forward to approximately half-way into the intersection.  The driver would then have to wait after the traffic light turned red, and proceed only once the traffic light for the crossroad turned green.
That's a hookturn.
I'm writing this from my house in the west side of Chicago.. and I'm flying to Melborne -- my birthplace -- tomorrow.  How about that!
Jackk 02:03, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: I've never seen a hook turn intersection in Illinois

message: It has always been my understanding that these terms refer to the side of the vehicle where the driver sits (and where the steering wheel is located) — NOT to the side of the street where vehicles are driven.  Thus, for example, traffic in the USA and Canada uses the right-hand side of the road, and as a result, almost all vehicles in the USA and Canada have left-hand drive (NOT right-hand drive).  See the article "Driving on the left or right" for more on this.  I'm not sure what (if any) adjective properly refers to the side of the road where vehicles are driven.  It may be best to rephrase the article along the lines "Australia, where the rule is to drive on the left", etc.  But saying that Australia is a "left-hand-drive country" is simply wrong.  Richwales 17:08, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You're absolutely right. Dysprosia 04:00, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use of terms "left-hand drive" and "right-hand drive"? 

message: :"* Belgium - Hook turns are common in Belgium. They are used as part of the general traffic management and are not particularly associated with tram routes."
:I have deleted this. though conciseness is a virtue, this is just too much of an unsupported blanket assertion. I have lived in Brussels for 15 years and know of no instances of what is described below. Of course there are reserved left-turning lanes, but none that I can think of that are on the *right* of the straight-ahead lanes. Even the voies latérales are normally signalled in phase with the central through lanes. I'm afraid we'll need an example. (In this I am considering the voies latérales to be separate roads, not part of the same road.) TobyJ (talk) 08:39, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Common in Belgium? When was that? 

message: I never imagined the idea of a hook turn could get so philosophical... TobyJ (talk) 11:32, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Nope not a hook turn.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Timothykhoo (talk • contribs) 21:24, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is this a hook turn? 

message: When I was in Melbourne in Jan/Feb 2012, I didn't find a single metal hook turn sign in Melbourne (CBD), all of them where LED-animated. Does anybody have/can anybody make an icon as a replacement/addition to the article?
I lack the skills for that
-- sic 92.229.242.102 (talk) 20:04, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hook turn signs in Melbourne 

message: The 'prevalence' section in this article seems to be unnecessary and largely irrelevant to the content. We don't need an exhaustive list of every place hook turns can be found and the regulations governing them. To the extent that this information is noteworthy, it can be consolidated under the 'Usage' section. Paperclip Maximiser (talk) 06:16, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of 'Prevalence' section