Talk:Jim McGreevey

message: Gay is immaterial to the FEMA and real estate deals he made and broke.   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.19.14.43 (talk) 17:13, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Governor.  That has simply not occurred yet.
Certainly there have been many, many closeted gays in office over the years who have also been outed.  So I don't think this individual deserves the distinction awarded to him.
Sorry.
--69.37.38.64 12:19, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  First Gay Governor? 

message: I added about 95% of the speech to the article discounting some irrelevant points. I will yield to the community now to see which portions may be irrelevant to the article. Arminius 22:37, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I added a link to the text of the speech for those who do not believe it belongs in the article itself.Arminius 22:46, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Resignation speech

message: For the internationally savvy, have there ever been any gay prime ministers or governors in any states / provinces anywhere else in the world? 
user:J.J.
:Here's the wiki page on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_first_LGBT_holders_of_political_offices. How complete this is is anybody's guess.VatoFirme (talk) 18:59, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gay Government Leaders 

message: I reverted edits that were made to the succession box. Please note, following Donald DiFrancesco, the office was occupied by Acting Governors John Farmer Jr., John O. Bennett, and Richard Codey. Accurizer 16:55, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Succession box 

message: Can anyone verify his daughter is named "Morag"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.15.9.228 (talk • contribs) 
:"Morag Veronica", according to this ABILITY Magazine article. Accurizer 23:06, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Morag?  WTF? =

message: I find this article on Jim McGreevey to be extremely lacking in one regard - there is absolutely no mention of why his first marriage broke up.  Is it because his first wife found out that he was a homosexual?  I mean, she just got up and moved to British Columbia - almost as if she was trying to move her and their daughter as far away from him as possible.  Is it a big secret?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.129.139.97 (talk) 07:17, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  First wife Karen "Kari" Joan Schutz 

message: I added this start of divorce: Jim and Dina Matos McGreevey's divorce trial in the Union County Courthouse in Elizabeth, started on May 6, 2008, to end their 3 1/2-year separation. Jim asked the court for equal custody of their 6-year-old daughter, alimony and child support. Matos McGreevey demanded $ 600,000 compensation. McGreevey, 50, now lives with a male partner and is studying to be an Episcopal priest. Stephen Haller, his lawyer will present witness Teddy Pedersen, 29: "Plaintiff will testify at trial that he needed to have a disrobed male present in the room with them in order for him to become physically aroused; This tends to prove that plaintiff was at least bisexual, a fact which should have been obvious to defendant prior to the marriage." Matos McGreevey's lawyer John Post, would block Pedersen's testimony.wwsb.com, Gay ex-N.J. governor's divorce trial promises sordid details www.gmanews.tv, Gay ex-NJ gov's divorce trial promises sordid details --Florentino floro (talk) 09:18, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Divorce trial

message: What does FEMA have to do with this?
In her memoirs, Matos wrote that she would never have married McGreevey if she had known he was gay, nor would she have chosen to have a gay man to father her child.[70] On March 17, 2008, Theodore Pedersen, a former aide to McGreevey, claimed that from 1999 to 2001 he had a three-way affair with McGreevey and Matos, a statement later affirmed by email from McGreevey to the Associated Press. That claim has been recently affirmed by FEMA.[70][71] In a statement to ABC News, Matos denied that a threesome ever took place.[72]
JBFrenchhorn (talk) 06:44, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  FEMA 

message: Today someone suddenly undid a longstanding and well-sourced part of the intro. He did it contrary to Wiki policy in that instead of assuming good faith or seeking consensus, he flatly accused the writer of seeking "to tar" the subject and undid the text without discussion:
   20:28, 25 July 2008 David Shankbone (Talk | contribs) (34,058 bytes) (Removed effort to tar McGreevey with scandals of associates; scandals McGreevey was cleared of. Let's keep the article NPOV) (undo)  
After I restored it, pointing out the importance of assuming good faith and seeking consensus, he undid it again, without proper explanation. 
He may have a very good reason for deleting that text. If so, there is no need to hurl accusations. Perhaps a cordial discussion of the issue here on these talk pages might be more productive. I would welcome it.Thefactis (talk) 22:01, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: *There's no big argument - I just disagree with using the Jim McGreevey article in WP:OR fashion by declaring "historical context"  The inference is that issues he was shown to never even know about may have motivated his resignation.  BLP does not say that you get to put a charge down, and then I have to find a reliable source to show he was cleared. This also fails NPOV and OR.  I'm jus' sayin...  --David Shankbone 05:30, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: *Let me get this straignt: we're talking about a statement of fact, whose validity is supported by references to at least three reliable sources, and that's somehow original research WP:OR? Care to explain the logic there? Putting the resignation in conetxt doesn't suggest motivation any more than does the part about Cipel. Of course using Cipel alone does trigger the NPOV problem, so the only solution is to include the full context or none of it in this introduction. Why persist in claiming that the Gov. was cleared, if there's no source to verify it? Thefactis (talk) 19:24, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No, the problem is that you are the one who is deciding that the resignation had something to do with "growing scandals" (your words) in scandals McGreevey was cleared of.  If you want to write about those scandals, then create new articles.  But your "historical context" is simply your POV.  Just because you have a citation doesn't mean you aren't using it to WP:SYN your POV.  Have you read WP:SYN?  Your inclusion of multiple sources about scandals in the lead of an article about someone who wasn't involved in them to portray it as having some effect on the resignation is WP:SYN.--David Shankbone 19:07, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: By that reasoning we would need to delete the reference to Cipel to avoid suggesting that the resignation may have been related to the claimed affair. Is that what you would advocate? And again, what's your source for this repeated assertion that he wasn't involved?Thefactis (talk) 02:38, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: What's your source that he *was* involved?  You are using old news that was "breaking" without using the updated story, that shows he was cleared.  Do you have something that shows he was convicted or the proves he was involved?  That's the measure.  I don't have to prove a negative.  Regardless, if you continue to insert this BLP violation, I will take it to the noticeboard.  --David Shankbone 15:24, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Who said he was? Not I. Why would you suggest that I had? I have made quite clear above that my point is that we should either give the full context or give none at all. It's focusing selectively on only one scandal as you insist that is an NPOV violation.Thefactis (talk) 16:13, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It isn't focusing selectively on one scandal.  The other scandals never involved him (I'm repeating myself) and you have yet to provide a source that prove he was involved in any of the scandals you are attributing to his resignation (and which you have also given no source to prove).  This is all your own personal opinion, and that is verboten.  --David Shankbone 18:02, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You know very well that I never said or implied that. Why do you keep repeating it? Absent any source for the assertion that the affair was the sole cause, I don't see how this language can stand. If you have any such evidence, now is the time to supply it.Thefactis (talk) 02:46, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Unless you can find more evidence that scandals McGreevey was never involved in had something to do with his resignation instead of WP:SYNing your sources, you will at least need to find someone else besides yourself to back you up.  Then we'll go to the BLP board. But right now, your proposal violates too many core policies (and you are the only one arguing for the violations).  --David Shankbone 12:48, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Huh? Do you have some reason to believe that he was involved in all these scandals that engulfed his administration during the final days before his resignation? Otherwise how can you say that? There are only so many hours in one day! And what evidiece do you have that the illicit affair was what motivated his resignation? Otherwise how can you you say that? It's important to cite reliable sources. This is a biography of a living person. Think about it!Thefactis (talk) 02:51, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You seem to have forgotten what this issue was about, which was your BLP and POV violations.  Please re-read this thread.  --David Shankbone 17:11, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: BLP and NPOV problems

message: Now call me a prude, but could find another way to put it? I mean children may read this. 
Sad what is happening to our culture... 96.250.83.177 (talk) 23:46, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Ménage à trois, perhaps? French terms are always nice and euphemistic. 24.118.25.211 (talk) 00:30, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Threesomes?

message: I noticed that a section dealing with public opinion during McGreevey's governorship is lacking on this page.  I propose adding a graph and a public opinion narrative. Mkrayton (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 20:40, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Public Opinion

message: I'll try to post this in talk sections of both Jim McGreevey and Dina Matos.
I take it it's understandable that it would take a while to realize one was gay (I don't know what McGreevey knew and when he knew it regarding this).  I also recall reading in Ann Landers and/or Abby Van Buren that (considering marriage to be between a man and a woman) one should NOT enter marriage if gay.  (I suggest you talk elsewhere about the definition of marriage, because I don't want to be involved in it here and we'd be digressing).  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.20 (talk) 19:26, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  can understand why McGreevey/Matos divorce would be bitter 

message: In the vast majority of Wikipedia sites I have seen, the personal life section comes at the end of an article, not the beginning. It appears here that the personal life section is put up front to embarrass the subject or color the reader's perspective in advance, whereas a typical article would show his professional career first. In addition, the section on Golan Cipel seems unusually large compared to the section on McGreevey's governorship in general. I suggest the article is overly focused on scandal for its own sake rather than a dispassionate review.Catherinejarvis (talk) 18:03, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  subject order seems misplaced 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: See Talk:Fall to Grace (film) for link to move discussion. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:27, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Requested move

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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