Talk:Marie Louise, Duchess of Parma

message: Is this the most appropriate title for the article?  All but one of the other languages' articles call her "Marie Louise of Austria." (The other just calls her "Marie Louise"). This is the only one that uses the "Duchess of Parma" title. Funnyhat 05:16, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This title is a strict application of the naming conventions (WP:NCNT), which dictates this form as Marie Louise was a sovereign. It doesn't mean it is the best title though. If she were only a consort, she would be Marie Louise of Austria. How about Marie Louise of Austria, Duchess of Parma? Charles 05:38, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Title 

message: :Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *Support or *Oppose, then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.
*Support as nominator. 1st choice: Marie Louise of Austria, Duchess of Parma (satisfies naming conventions for sovereigns and consorts). 2nd choice:  Marie Louise of Austria. Charles 05:36, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *Comment After 1814 during her lifetime she was surely titled that, but a scholar and book search on Google seems to indicate that "of Austria" is most common for dates 1950-2007, that being the form most used to refer to her. Charles 17:18, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

text: This is a CONSTRUCTED form of name, never used.  In Parma, she was never known as "Marie Louise, Duchess of Parma"; she was always known as "Empress Marie Louise, Duchess of Parma".  "Empress" is an intrinsic part of her Parma title. Noel S McFerran (talk) 00:42, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: All monarchical names are constructed. It doesn't matter what she was called in Parma (presumably an Italian form of her name, anyway?), only that the article name fits with common name and monarchical convention. Michael  Sanders 01:18, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Would Empress Marie Louise, Duchess of Parma not be the proper name for this article then? Charles 21:51, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Nice to see you! Charles 21:51, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

text: *Comment It seems that support so far is for Marie Louise of Austria, Duchess of Parma with consensus for a move at 3 to 2. Charles 19:10, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

text: *Comment An examination of the Wikipedia:Naming conventions (names and titles) shows that there is no "maiden name rule" - at least not as a universal or near-universal convention. If Marie Louise is to be "Marie Louise of Austria, Duchess of Parma", why is her uncle Ferdinand III, Grand Duke of Tuscany not "Ferdinand of Austria, Grand Duke of Tuscany"?  It seems that Marie Louise is being treated differently because she is a woman.  She was a sovereign, and should be treated as such. There is no reason to impose a non-existent "maiden name rule" upon her. Noel S McFerran (talk) 02:15, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *Reply Marie Louise, really though, is very frequently identified by, if not best known by, her premarital designation of Austria. Marie Louise ruled a duchy, but she was the consort of an empire with a very, very famous (or infamous) emperor. If she had only ever been duchess of Parma and not empress of the French, then perhaps the title "Marie Louise, Duchess of Parma" would be sufficient. Marie Louise was a sovereign, of course, but I'm pretty sure her imperial status was very, very important to her. Why is there no fuss being raised over Maria Theresa of Austria? That form of a name here, under the naming conventions, is that of a consort only, and she wasn't queen or empress of Austria. Charles 02:24, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

text: No, more "inventive" than the form which would satisfy two naming conventions: Marie Louise of Austria, Duchess of Parma. Charles 04:10, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: "Inventive"? Hmm... SamEV (talk) 04:48, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, constructed I should say. But all titles are constructions. Charles 04:50, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a tough one. At the Congress of Vienna they accorded her Parma and the right to retain the title "Her Imperial Majesty", for life. You make a good point, which I accept at face value, that for a half-century she's been called "Marie Louise of Austria". I say you guys should just flip a coin. SamEV (talk) 05:00, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: :Any additional comments:
:There was no consensus to make this, move and as such, I've left this article at its current title. --Maxim(talk) 13:51, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion

message: The illustrating portrait is from Isabey, who was an imperial portraitist, and shows obviously the Empress of the French, and surely not the Duchess of Parma, as said in the caption... --82.123.215.124 (talk) 00:44, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Caption of main illustration

message: At http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Luigia_d%27Austria#mediaviewer/File:Maria_Luigia_Duchess_of_Parma.jpg there is a copy of the decree, published on 29 February 1816, stating her decision that her title must be:
:Sua Maestà la Principessa Imperiale ed Arciduchessa d'Austria MARIA LUIGIA, Duchessa di Parma, Piacenza e Guastalla [Her Majesty the Imperial Princess and Archduchess of Austria MARIA LUIGIA, Duchess of Parma, Piacenza and Guastalla]  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Italus (talk • contribs) 16:12, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Decree of 29 February 1816 on her desired Title 

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thread_title:  External links modified