Talk:Asian fetish/Archive 2

message: On August 31, 2005, NYPD arrested 43-year old Daniel Hoyt for allegedly exposing himself to 23-year old Thao Nguyen, who states that she quickly snapped a picture of the perpetrator with a camera on her cell phone, which later appeared on the front page of The Daily News. In addition, at least six other women have come forward to claim that the perpetrator flashed them as well. Hoyt is the co-owner of two NYC restaurants named Quintessence, along with his ex-wife Tolentin Chan, who is a native of Hong Kong.
Uh, how could you prove that Hoyt's flashing is connected to his supposed Asian fetish? Could someone point out some sources showing that the 6 other women were Asian as well? Ok his ex-wife is Asian, OK. Nguyen is Asian, so OK. But we don't know if say, Hoyt flashed himself to three whites, two blacks, and an Indian, and Nguyen was the odd woman out who happened to be Asian. --Bash 06:23, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Uh, what?

message: Can someone please explain to me how the term "asian fetish" isn't pejorative? Please tell me when use of this term isn't disparaging or belittling? --Howrealisreal 20:05, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: What if the term by definition is pejorative, which is the case here I believe. I again want someone to tell me how this term can be used without it being disparaging or belitting? --Howrealisreal 21:21, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The term itself 

message: I have never heard of the whole Asian fetish phenomenon up till the day i read it here. 
Is it because I live in the Netherlands instead of the United States?
Are you sure this is really a common stereotype in America? Or has someone here on wikipedia just made the whole issue up?
I have really never heard of this.
I guess I'm writing this because i feel HEAVILY offended by this article... 
I am a white male married to an asian woman, but I have never really actively looked for asian women in particular.
the article states that white men dating asian women are most of the time nerds or geeks.
Well, I just happen to have studied computer science. :(
This is just scary...
Have I done something wrong by marrying an asian woman?
Really, this article makes me feel like that. I don't know if, in the Netherlands, a white man/asian woman couple is frowned upon in the same way as in the United States, but i sure don't hope so.
OK, I know I am being really subjective, but in my case it is almost impossible to stay objective. My point is that I am doubting (and also not wanting ;)) this "Asian Fetish" thing to be so big. Is it really such an issue in the US that it deserves a wikipedia entry?
: 1) Learn English and 2) read the article again.  What was written was, "Ironically, white men who exclusively date Asian women are often tagged with the same stereotypical qualities. They are often characterized as nerds and geeks, physically weaker and less socially capable than other white men, who “settle” for Asian women because White women reject them."  The author is saying that this is a STEREOTYPE used to denigrate white men who date Asian women.  In the same section, the author also talks about stereotypes of Asian men as short asexual wonders--it is the section on NEGATIVE STEREOTYPES.  For the last time, stereotype does not necessarily equal reality.  -3
:"Is it really such an issue in the US that it deserves a wikipedia entry?" Does Asian fetishism exist? Certainly. So do fetishes for old people, fat people, pregnant people, and so on. You name, and there is a fetish for it. Is it a pervasive, widespread syndrome that serves as a clear indictment of all "white" American men everywhere (or any of the other numerous unsubstantiated assertions in this article)? No: that's simply ridiculous, and the assertions it makes concerning couples of differing ancestry are just repugnant. What year is this, 1805?
:After reviewing the history of this article and its Talk page, I would declare this article a lost cause. Wikipedia has mechanisms in place that make it all but impossible to battle an editor who is motivated to push their POV come hell or high water. I salute anyone who takes on this battle, but I certainly wouldn't wager money on your success. -- BBlackmoor (talk) 04:47, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  This phenomenon. 

message: To everyone who is deploring the lack of refereed articles in this entry, I'll just say that we're working on it. Chill, people, these things take time, especially when your primary field of research  has absolutely nothing to do with what this research will involve. If you think that's a problem, then you try digging up references to something like this. It is not easy.
At any rate, as I said earlier, we need a discussion on Frank Chin and Jeffrey Paul Chan's article on "racist love." Web of Knowledge doesn't list as many cited refs to that article as one would like, though, so that is unfortunate. It may also be very worthwhile to include in the Criticisms section a discussion of Johansson and Barmé's exploration of "white fetish" in the Chinese state-owned media, in Postcolonial Studies and The China Journal, respectively. If anyone wants to write about these articles before I get a chance to, by all means feel free to do so.
Finally, it's ironic how some people will request references to refereed articles on this page, but will at the same time deplore the writing techniques and research methods used by those same articles. I got news for you people: this is how the social sciences works. Instead of just making blind accusations against something that you don't agree with, why not spend the effort to learn some of the basic research techniques in these fields instead? It would be a much better use of your time.
--70.246.92.190 17:47, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I admit that I'm not a social scientist, but I am a Biologist, and I know for a fact that you cannot prove something in ANY form of science by creating a hypothesis and then looking for rare occurring examples in reality that fit your POV while ignoring everything else. Take, for example, let's say I want to prove my hypothesis that "smoking cigarettes is not bad for you", well then all I would have to do is find a couple of old senior citizens in the world that are in their 80s and 90s who continue to smoke cigarettes to this day and have adequate health. I have an aunt that has been smoking for most of her adult life and has outlived many of my other non-smoking relatives and lives rather comfortably, but even if I find and document the numerous instances of people like her, it still does not prove my point because it is shortsightedly based in bad methodology. Listen, I am a white man who lives in New York City and I agree that American society does unfortunately negatively typecast Asians, Blacks, Latinos, and Hispanics perpetually, but I don't think this article does a good job in explaining it without coming across as an invalid subjective rant that tries to convict all white men of being exploitative. --Howrealisreal 12:36, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Academic references 

message: The term "Asian Fetish" in and of itself is pejorative.  A fetish is an obsessive fixation on something.  In this case it is an obsessive fixation on a specific ethnicity.  As in the term coined "Jungle Fever" from the movie, the term "Asian Fetish" is often used interchangably with "Yellow Fever" and is used to described sexual attaction to another ethnicity, specificly people of Asian descent.
The term Asian Fetish is for abnormal behaviour, not normal behaviour.  This does not mean that all people who like parts of Asian culture or all people who have a significant other who happens to be Asian has an Asian Fetish.  As far as I know, there is not a special term for people who just happen to have a casual interest in Asian culture, Asian people in a non-obsessive fashion or happen to have an Asian life parter, because they are normal.  Perhaps there should be an entry to this fact in the article.  As commented "I might be rather distraught if I saw some white woman making out with a black guy that only liked white women because they were white." that is exactly the type of behaviour that is being described with the term.  Unfortunately with the umbrella effect the term is also often applied to people who my not have this unhealthy obsession.
Discrimination can come in many forms.  The core of it is that a person is treated differently because of their ethnicity.  It can be expressed both positively or negatively.  Elevating someone above others due to their ethnic background is racism.
Minbo 15:27, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Not to be Mr. Insensitive, but I don't find the name offensive. It's an article about a phenomenon that the people who believe it exists refer to as "Asian fetish". If you can think of a better name that someone actually uses, feel free to present it.--Orborde 07:57, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Asian fetish page needs to be forked 

message: When coming to a NPOV conclusion, one must realize that the White male who only dates Asian women that has the most problems with this Asian Fetish concept is just one viewpoint. There are many other viewpoints as well. 
:(I moved this to its own heading because we should be keeping everything under headings except for the note about archived discussions.) --Idont Havaname 20:00, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Comment from an anon regarding (N)POV