Talk:Macedonian nationalism

message: An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Macedondom. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so.  signed, Rosguill talk 17:56, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: This claim above lacks any concrete proves. I see over 160 sources under line. However in such cases you can question an uncited claim by inserting . Jingiby (talk) 11:57, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Macedondom" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: At the request of the founded in 2004 nationalist United Macedonian Diaspora (UMD),Instead of promoting peace, stability, and democracy in the Balkans, the Democratic Party for Macedonian National Unity (VMRO-DPMNE), with Nikola Gruevski as leader and prime minister of FYROM, has embarked on an effort to spread its propaganda tentacles to the outside world, especially to the United States and Canada, by supporting and promoting several ultra-nationalist organizations. The best known such organization is the United Macedonian Diaspora (UMD), headed by Metodija A. Koloski. Emboldened by the rush of thoughtless and politically motivated propaganda stunts, UMD methodically and ruthlessly displays a naked and well-financed and intransigent propaganda effort, the main target of which is Greece. For more see: Papavizas, George. (2012). FYROM: A source of Balkan instability. Mediterranean Quarterly. Duke University Press; Issue 2 (23); pp. 42-63; (46) in 2021 the US congressman Brendan Boyle introduced in the House of Representatives a draft of a non-binding resolution with an official title: "Expressing support for the designation of the month of September 2022 as "Macedonian American Heritage Month".H.Res.741. Rep. Boyle, Brendan F. [D-PA-2] (Introduced 10/22/2021). The United Macedonian Diaspora is recognized as a serious lobbyist of Macedonian interests in the United States. The resolution has mentioned some historical figures from the 19 and the early 20th century US as Macedonians and insisted the first Macedonian immigrants reached the territory of today's United States even before Columbus discovered America.US draft resolution: Macedonians set foot in America in 1492. Darik.News English, February 4, 2022. That caused the critical reaction of the oldest organization of the Macedonian immigrants in North America, the Macedonian Patriotic Organization. It has sent an address to the US Congress on who Macedonian Bulgarians are, insisting the first Macedonian Slavic immigrants identified themselves as Bulgarians, at least until the middle of the 20th century.Macedonian Patriotic Organizations with an address to US Congress on who Macedonian Bulgarians are. BGNES News Agency, 04.02.2022. For the same purpose, again at the initiative of the MPO, a petition to Congress has been prepared, insisting to suspend this resolution.Спас Ташев, Македонските българи в Америка. Труд, 16.05.2022. The Bulgarian ambassador to the USA, Georgi Panayotov confirmed  there was an attempt to pass an incorrect resolution in the Congress, but resumed he will take measures on the matter.Голям скандал. Македонски номера срещу нас в САЩ. Стандарт, 28 май, 2022. On the occasion of UMD biased activity the branch of the MPO in Chicago began to send the book "UMD (United Macedonian Diaspora) children of the Lie" to all US Congressmen and local parliaments in each US state.Драгомир Богданов: Променят ли се учебниците, след 20 г. в РС Македония няма да мразят българите. 24 часа, 10.05.2022. As result the resolution failed.Two Macedonian resolutions rejected in US Congress thanks to Macedonian Bulgarians. Bulgarian National Television, 30.12.2022. I consider this scandal a manifestation of Macedonian nationalism abroad in its purest form, and I see no reason why these events should not be reflected in the article, especially since they are undeniable. Jingiby (talk) 06:16, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Is this article supposed to contain a listing of every idea made by every Macedonian group? I think not. Find a (preferably academic) source that states a common belief among Macedonian nationalists is that ethnic Macedonians predated Columbus in the Americas. Thanks. --Local hero talk 15:23, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  UMD, its views and Macedonian nationalism  

message: I propose that the "Contemporary ideas" subsection be deleted, as not only does it extensivly violate WP:NOTESSAY, it also violates WP:NPOV and some of the statements are either not sourced or poorly sourced. It is clearly not in spirit of what Wikipedia is meant to be, hence why it should be deleted. I've opened this discussion in order to reach a consensus on this issue. Best regards to all. Kluche (talk) 14:20, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: At the very least, all of the uncited stuff must go. After that, not much is left anyway. --Local hero talk 20:31, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

text: Support. The remaining reliably sourced information can be integrated elsewhere. StephenMacky1 (talk) 21:25, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contemporary ideas subsection 

message: Was it prohibited with an official decree? To what extent was it prohibited (for example, maybe officials were instructed not to use it, but citizens could use it) and was this the case throughout the whole existence of the kingdom in the interwar period, ie. 1918-1941? I used Luch as one example of use of the name. And Luch did exist for about a year, not a few months, and is it certain that the use of the name Macedonia was the reason the magazine was banned, after issuing about 10 issues? @Jingiby Идеологист (talk) 08:55, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure how the process went. I guess this happened gradually to stop the development of a separate Macedonian national consciousness. The ban was hardly absolute and official, but in general, initially in Serbia before the Balkan Wars there was talk of a territory in the Ottoman Empire called Southern Serbia and Macedonia. After the annexation of the area following the Balkan Wars, it was called already only Southern Serbia, and the term Macedonia fell out of use. After the First World War, the name became Vardar Banovina. In schools, in the morning before reading the prayer, the students must say out loud three times: "I am a real Serb; My father and my mother are real Serbs.” Jingiby (talk) 10:24, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the reply. I think we should rephrase that sentence then to portray this more accurately. Do you have any suggestions? Идеологист (talk) 14:56, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I am not sure. For example per Chris Kostov's book Contested Ethnic Identity: The Case of Macedonian Immigrants in Toronto, issued by Peter Lang in 2010:  The Serbian government even banned the name Macedonia and called the region Vardar Banovina [province]. This claim is on p. 76. There are also more ornate attempts to explain the problem in a slightly different way without affecting the common Yugoslav past. See for example the explanation of this author from North Macedonia Nada Boskovska. She maintains in the book Yugoslavia and Macedonia Before Tito: Between Repression and Integration on pp. 3-4:  In the interwar period the term Macedonia soon became scorned in Yugoslavia... this whole region was declared to be South Serbia... Later the term 'South Serbia' did not disappear from common usage. Those who wanted to avoid using this term at the end of the 1930s, but did not dare to use the term 'Macedonia', spoke of South or Povardarie. Jingiby (talk) 17:08, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems to me that Kostov uses "banned" in the sense that you may face some problems if you use it, not caring to clear up if it was officially banned. I think Boshkovska is trying to understand the topic and explain it in a neutral way. Luch authors also use South or Povardarie. Идеологист (talk) 20:28, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  The name of Macedonia prohibited in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia