Talk:Sam

message: The article only mentions the possible origin "his name is God". Searching around, I've found quite a few variations (none of which, by the way, are "his name is God"). "Asked of God", "priest of God", "heard by God" or "son of God" are all found at . "Name of God" is found at  and , the latter of which also has "God has heard". Should some mention be made of the alternative derivations? — Asbestos | Talk 10:48, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: My name is samuel and I was always told it meant "called by God" based on the story of Samuel (Bible) in the Old Testament.  But I don't think it's that important. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rebent (talk • contribs) 23:57, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Etyomology

message: Is Sam a short form for Simon too? I'm not American so I don't know if it really is... 
But I've heard several times that Sam can be a short form of Samuel and Simon too :\
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.54.215.207 (talk) 
::Never heard that before -Rebent 23:57, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sam and Simon... 

message: The list of fictional characters who go by Sam is ridiculous. A couple of animated characters on Nickelodeon? Honestly... I don't know if I consider it completely useless or just terribly incomplete (I'm leaning toward the former). It would more accurately be a list of popular children's characters named Sam, but that would perhaps make for a better article than disambiguous subject, albeit still rather pointless. I also question why TV shows are so prevalent as forms of fiction, while movies and books are mentioned only once, with Samwise Gamgee. What about Sam-I-Am in Dr. Suess's Green Eggs And Ham or the title character of the movie I Am Sam?
Furthermore, why not mention Sam's Club?
Comments?
:This is a user-edited encyclopedia.  You are a user.  Please edit this encyclopedia and add this content. Val42 05:17, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fictional Characters?

message: The shortened version can obviously be applied to Samantha. However the name Sam as a given name is not a non-gender specific name. The name would originate from Samuel the origin would be Hebrew. The shortened version as a given name has origins as a traditional farmers son in England. This is an age-old name. It can be considered similar to George; a girl may often have her name shortened to the shorter version of the full name, but it would highly unlikely that they would have the male given name as their first name. Londo06 00:19, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Sam as a given name is not unisex

message: SAM can also mean, Self Aware Machine; as described in the book, S.A.M., by Ozy Alvarado.  For more information on the book, go to www.selfawaremachine.com.  72.185.85.216 19:58, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  SAM = Self Aware Machine 

message: what about sam for lord of the rings :\?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.108.16.48 (talk) 08:08, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's under Samwise — Val42 03:43, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sam (lotr) 

message: SchmuckyTheCat reverted my splitting of the three-letter acronyms from the names with the comment, "Reverted to revision 161173321 by LesnailLesnail; dab pages are case insensitive. using TW".  Would you please direct me to the appropriate Wikipedia policy, and why it doesn't apply to ADA and Ada. — Val42 03:54, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: SAM vs Sam

message: Having found this discussion, I see little attempt at actually finding sources. Here's a smattering I found: , , ,  and . I don't know if these will support any particular version, but I hope they will help settle the dispute. I agree with those here requiring sources, of course. Verifiability is non-negotiable.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 05:56, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Outside view

message: given name, with dimunitives listed. That is the only way it can go if you want to use the term diminutive. Alexsanderson83 (talk) 08:39, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree Sam is only a male christian or forename, but it is the diminutive for the female forename Samantha. Londo06 (talk) 09:22, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sam is primarily a male given name. It's not "Sam may refer to" a given name...check out other name entries on wikipedia...a name is what "Sam" is, first and foremost. I don't think people are looking for the Society of America Magicians, or whatever...they want to know the origin and history of Sam.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.8.148.156 (talk) 07:04, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't object to what you are saying.  I'm agreeing with another editor who brought up that saying "primarily a male given name" needs a reference.  Since the editor has affirmed this in the Outside view section (above), there have been no attempts to even provide references for this statement.  If you want this back on, you'll need to provide a reference from a reliable source. — Val42 (talk) 16:03, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Current Edit

message: I have added the information based on U.S. Census Bureau statistics from link given above.  I don't think that there can be any disagreement about the U.S. Census Bureau being a reliable source or the actual statistics (though I couldn't find a year).  I listed them in order by decreasing percentages.  If I've made minor errors, please correct them.  But I think that any major changes should be discussed here first; I don't want to have another edit war started. — Val42 (talk) 18:47, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Format and statistics

message: There is a major issue here with a user pushing ideas that would fall under Wikipedia:No original research and Neutral point of view. This assertion has been given credit, but it is being pushed as the norm. CorleoneSerpicoMontana (talk) 23:52, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I wholeheartedly agree.  That is why I'm surprised that you would condemn what you are doing while continuing to do it.  I have requested assistance at Wikipedia:Village pump (assistance) to avoid another edit war over this issue. — Val42 (talk) 17:51, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Pushing of marginal material

message: I supplied the link to the 1990 census data simply as a source to confirm that Sam can and is used as a female given name, not only as a dim. (Btw, a dim is not defined as a 'shortened' version  of a name, it is a familiar (pet) or shortened version. ie, Georgette is a diminutive feminine form of George but it is longer than the name from which it is derived.) I don't see a need to list every single instance of each name of which Sam may be a dim, especially if there is no article to relate the name back to. 
Not surprisingly, this version of the disambig was far simpler, imo. Although I'd probably change The diminutive of to A diminutive of.
Possibly there are cultural perspectives at issue here. It is far more common in the US to find what may traditionally be a dim endowed as a given name. Bill, Pam etc. It is also far more common to find the lines between a traditional masculine name and feminine name blurred.
Acknowledgement that Sam, while traditionally a masculine name, is also used as a feminine name should be a reasonable compromise without having to quantify the numbers or for any individual male Sam to fear an erosion of their masculinity.
I initially only came here to add a TV character name to the page. Might just do that now and slink back to rugby league. •Florrie•leave a note• 01:50, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I have removed "diminutive" because of what you pointed out.  I have also requested assistance at Wikipedia:Village pump (assistance) to avoid another edit war over this issue. — Val42 (talk) 17:51, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It does appear a bit odd with the last couple of edits to have the stats up front. I think the problem with Sam as a female given name has been fixed; yes it can be it is far from the norm, etc. I would go back to an older edit and have the stats below, although their worth can be questioned for Sam as a female name as Arthur seems just as likely to be a female name as Sam is.Alexsanderson83 (talk) 18:06, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Keep it simple 

message: The claim that 'Sam' is a shortened version of the names given below it is unsourced, and is pure conjecture. (We don't know who uses what nicknames). However the Census Bureau does record the gender that goes with each name. How about the following new version, where the names are in strict percentage order, so we are not interpreting anything. We are merely giving the census data. We have to leave out Samson and Samwise since they are not included in the census listings (i.e. they are not among the 1219 most common men's names or the 4275 most common women's names)
:Male given names:
::Samuel (0.306%)
::Sam (0.092%)
::Sammy (0.025%)
::Sammie (0.012%)
::Samual (0.004%)
:Female given names:
::Samantha (0.124%)
::Samatha (0.006%)
::Sammie (0.005%)
::Sam (0.002%)
::Samara (0.002%)
::Samira (0.002%)
::Sammy (0.001%)
::Samella (0.001%)
::Samuel (0.001%) 
I'm proposing as a possible solution to the recent edit war. EdJohnston (talk) 18:39, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I would go along with this except that Samson and Samwise should be listed.  Samson is prominent to have its own article.  Samwise, while a disambiguation article (that could potentially be merged here), Samwise Gamgee is called "Sam" in the movie trilogy "The Lord of the Rings".  (It has been too long since I've read the books, but the same is probably true there too.) — Val42 (talk) 18:51, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: What about Sami, Samir, etc. Surely the yearless US figures should not end up as the up front details stating what Sam is. Alexsanderson83 (talk) 19:01, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The U.S. Census Bureau is a reference that we can use so that we are not doing original research.  If we can find references for these names or there are articles for these names, then we should add them. — Val42 (talk) 19:50, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

text: I implemented the above suggestion.  I event took into consideration Alexsanderson83's concern that the reference not "state what Sam is" (paraphrase) by using "may be". — Val42 (talk) 19:55, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

text: I like it. I am glad that my comments led to a more informative and accurate version of the page. It seems to me that the best outcome of a content dispute is the improvement of the article, so I am a happy Sam. Sam Barsoom (talk) 20:21, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sam as a common usage male given, first, fore, christian, etc name is the only irrefutable direct claim on the name, the others can only claim it as a diminutive, informal, etc. Whilst we recognise that a female can be christened Sam, she could also have James, Arthur, Rudy, etc on a birth certificate. I believe the edit is moving sideways as much as it is forwards. I would move for a return to a cleaner edit that moved the referenced percentages down the page. I would also press other users to look through other names for a way to move forwards. CorleoneSerpicoMontana (talk) 03:18, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eliminate conjecture 

message: Just a passing comment from somebody not involved with the above discussions - is it possible to make it clear that the percentage figures apply to the United States only after all this is Wikipedia not American-Wikipedia. MilborneOne (talk) 21:52, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Good idea. Sam Barsoom (talk) 21:54, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've made this edit. — Val42 (talk) 22:24, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks MilborneOne (talk) 22:28, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I would have these stats further down, echoing the above this is not American-Wikipedia. CorleoneSerpicoMontana (talk) 03:12, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I personally don't see a need for them to be on the page at all. The link was simply provided as a source to support the fact that Sam, while not traditional, can be, and is by use, a name for a female. •Florrie•leave a note• 03:35, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Census percentages

message: Remove any mention of gender (which seems to be the biggest bone of contention)... 
*Sam is a given name
*Sam may be a diminutive of many given names, including
**Samuel
**Samson
**Samantha
**Samwise
*Sam is a family name
*Other uses:
etc etc
and forget about gender and statistics. See the disambig page for Cameron as one example of a name which can be either female or male. •Florrie•leave a note• 03:57, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: *The version now on the page is fully sourced. If you want to add additional facts about how the name is used, I believe those facts should have sources. It seems you want to announce 'norms' in how the name should be used, but I don't see where you are finding those norms. (Rules about what is 'really' a man's name, or how diminutives are used, for example). EdJohnston (talk) 00:13, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The above suggestion would be a nice, clean version that I would agree to.  In fact, I did something very similar to this earlier.  But certain editors insisted on stating unequivocally that "Sam" is a male name and only a male name.  Even when "Samantha" was part of the list, the whole list was declared male names.  I asked twice for outside opinions at the Village Pump, and both times they said that stating that it is a male name requires references.  In fact, I was brought into this edit war in the first place because an editor requested references that "Sam" is exclusively a male name.  Since adding the statistics from the U.S. Census Bureau, the article has been the most stable it has been in a while. So, since the above suggestion has caused significant problems in the past, I prefer stability over conciseness in this article. — Val42 (talk) 06:24, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Suggestion

message: In economics and national accounting a "SAM" is the abbreviation for "Social accounting matrix", so please add that to the list of abbreviations.
A quick reference would be the Office for National Statistics (UK) [report], but most economics and financial policy work using national accounts will reference SAM's.
(Econfusion (talk) 20:19, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Social Accounting Matrix

message: This was removed some time back; inbetween "Sam" the persian folk hero and Sam the olympic mascot:
*Sámr of Old Norse or Old Icelandic, which is attested to as the name of the prosecutor of Hrafnkell in Hrafnkels saga, and the name of Gunnars dog in Njáls saga, is also commonly translated as Sám. The name may be related to the Old Norse Sæmingr
Appears to be an old Indo-European variant of the name unrelated to the modern popular biblical name in Sweden "Samuel"; maybe closer related to the Persian Samr, Samir, meaning dark or some such. Might have the notability to re-add it; at least variants from around the world may be of note if such can be more attested to. 4.242.174.226 (talk) 08:29, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Old Nordic versions of Sam 

message: Another disambiguation entry that could be included is related to the NREL software SAM (Solar Advisor Model), which is quite popular in the PV & CSP sector.
More information can be found at the NREL [SAM webpage].  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.16.107.238 (talk) 08:58, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Solar Advisor Model (SAM) 

message: Term for anti-aircraft missile, used by NATO among others.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.216.207.97 (talk) 14:39, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Surface-to-Air-Missile

message: ...wasn't it called Sam, too?  - Samtheshamandthepharaohs, 149.225.64.179 (talk) 15:34, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  that first chimpasee in space... 

message: Mmmm
,mkk,,  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.10.213.99 (talk) 16:19, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yell 

message: Are Old Norse names given in their various historic sagas pertinent to be included here? Such as Sámr (-r is a proper suffix, so is technically just "Sam" without accent mark) & Sæmingr? 24.20.95.50 (talk) 14:55, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sámr, Sæmingr?