Talk:I Vow to Thee, My Country

message: Currently the word British in the first line redirects to United Kingdom.  This should be corrected?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.89.224.161 (talk) 02:23, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Britain or UK

message: I copied from the commentary misplaced under Lyrics. I'd recommend omitting it; and I will do so in a little while.Dsnow75 Talk (talk) 05:22, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Lyrics will mean lyrics

message: :In 1921, the music of "Jupiter" from Gustav Holst's Planets Suite was added.
:In 1925, Gustav Holst set the words to music,
It can't be both, folks. And do we have a source for Holst being okay with his tune being used? The Wednesday Island 14:43, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I found a source that says Holst wrote the music in 1921, but it was first performed in 1925. I have amended the article accordingly. Note that the source is not what I would consider particularly credible and we really need to find a better one. Sidefall 19:48, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

text: The dates reported above are incorrect. Gustav Holst wrote Jupiter in 1914-16 with the first public performance in 1919 Holst, Imogen, A Thematic Catalogue of Gustav Holst's Music. Faber, 1974, then was commissioned to set "I Vow to Thee, My Country" to music and realised the words fitted part of Jupiter which he had recently penned, hence the 1921 date is the correct date for putting the words to music: the words of "I Vow to Thee, My Country" had been written by Sir Cecil Spring-Rice earlier in 1918.  The first performance of the words to the music by Holst was in 1925.   Searching Wikipedia for Sir Cecil Spring-Rice, and the public performances of the Planet suite, confirms the dates I list here. AccHistories (talk) 18:48, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Date Query

message: Perhaps there should be a reference to the third verse...?
:Can somebody add the text of the third verse? --Maha 00:41, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I concurr this is necessary. Does anyone have knowledge of it? Graldensblud 00:05, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Third Verse 

message: It would be more appropriately described as a hymn of the Commonwealth nations than of merely England.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.28.240.20 (talk) 18 April 2007
:The fact remains that it is an English patriotic hymnn even if it is also sung in other countries. It has been added that the hymn is used in Canadian Remembrance Day services. If it is proven that the hymn is also of all "the Commonwealth nations" with sources, then surely that can be included, as well as it being English patriotic hymn, rather than instead of it.♦Tangerines BFC ♦·Talk 17:47, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: For that matter, it's in the current American(-Canadian) Seventh-day Adventist Hymnal (1985), presumably for Canadian use, though it could be sung in any nation that requested death of its citizens; the text has no specific reference to England or the UK. --Haruo 17:19, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  It was never an English patriotic hymn, it was a British hymn initially: it is used regularly in Scotland in Church of Scotland services (possibly that fact being behind the use by Mrs Thatcher in her speech to General Assembly of the Church of Scotland).  Indeed, the words were inspired by the huge losses in the First World War of which Scotland (and Wales) carried the brunt of relative to their populations.   The song is now used throughout the Commonwealth. The reference to "country" in the song sang in Scotland at least, is widely considered to be reference the heavenly country not a literal country, though that sits very uneasily with the second stanza. AccHistories (talk) 18:59, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Hymn

message: At that time, the first verse glorified warfare in a manner common to the bellicose patriotism at the beginning of the Great War. if anyone has these words, could they please add them to this article - it would be very interesting to see what they say. Sidefall 17:37, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Original version 

message: Please check this out as well. It has the same melody, but different words I think. This should be included in the article as it is another rendition of I Vow to Thee my country.
the youtube link below is from the United States, sung in a church in Tennessee. it's towards the end of the clip.
ApsbaMd2 (talk) 15:30, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, this hymn is listed in the Oremus Hymnal as being sung to Thaxted, as is another hymn called "Let streams of living justice".  It's pretty common for multiple hymns to use the same tune, and indeed for multiple tunes to be used for the same hymn, with hymns with popular metres (such as Common Metre, 8.6.8.6) often swapping tunes freely.  On the other hand, as Thaxted is, to my knowledge, the only hymn tune with metre 13.13.13.13.13.13, and I Vow To Thee My Country led to the adaptation of that tune as a hymn tune, it might be worth noting that the hymn effectively created a new metre.  TSP (talk) 15:49, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  O God, Beyond All Praising  

message: I'm sure I heard somewhere (BBC radio 4 programme?) that Spring-Rice rewrote the poem/lyric after his own son's death in the first world war? This would be important to add if true.122.176.218.248 (talk) 17:21, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Written after son's death? 

message: Sorry, how is the distinction drawn between the sections Contemporary Use vs Commercal Uses?  
I meant to add its use near the end of the TV Movie "Page Eight"(2011) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1797469/combined but couldn't tell which of these sections to use.
Jojoba2 (talk) 06:02, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contemporary Use vs Commercal Uses? 

message: In the opening line the hymn is described as 'British'. However as a Briton I have never heard it outside of England, and it is often used as an English national anthem; in the Commonwealth Games for instance. User:WatermillockCommon claims it is sung in Scottish schools, but in my own school in West Lothian I never once heard it. Zacwill16 (talk) 15:59, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The hymn has certainly been sung many times at Gordonstoun, and this link from Fettes College Twitter account show that is sung there as well (possible regularly?)... I have also seen the hymn sung at numerous Remembrance Day services across the Commonwealth, so it is certainly sung not only outside England, but outside the British Isles. The writer, Spring Rice, viewed himself as a 'Briton', with close ancestral links to Ireland as well as England. Certainly, the hymn does have arguably the closest connection to England, but I don't think this means it cannot be regarded as a 'British hymn'. (WatermillockCommon (talk) 13:57, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

text: Furthermore, today the song is closely associated with the British Armed Forces, which draws its members from across the United Kingdom, not only England... (WatermillockCommon (talk) 14:00, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps we can have a compromise? Something along the lines of 'although the hymm is sung across the United Kingdom, it is most closely associated with England, and is sometimes regarded as England's national anthem'. Zacwill16 (talk) 11:55, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  British or English? 

message: I just found that someone delete most of the 2nd verse and duplicate the 1st verse instead. I think the 2nd verse should be there and just mention aside that it wont be sung anymore, not to omit it at all.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8109:A140:F14:C957:3F77:57F6:9F41 (talk) 02:11, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  2nd verse, please correct it. 

message: The text of the "second verse" was added by an anonymous editor back in 2007. No reference was given. Almost nine years later, still no reference. 
Google books gives me ten previewable hits on the lyrics, all of which are published after 2007. This is not a good sign. 
Fortunately, I get one single snippet view dated 1929 which appear to confirm the lyrics are indeed by 
Spring-Rice (The Letters and Friendships of Sir Cecil Spring Rice p. 433).
It would seem that this is a snippet from a letter by Spring-Rice, but I cannot verify when or if he ever published the text in this form. 
Referenced information on the publication history of the text, especially on the chronology of this supposed censorship of a "second verse", is badly needed here.
--dab (𒁳) 16:34, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Lyrics

message: The earlier version had the single title "Urbs Dei", only in the later version did the title "The Two Father Lands" appear. Question: What sense did the title "Urbs Dei" make in the first version? A snippet I came across claims it was simply a heraldic motto of Spring-Rice's ancestors. 
The german Wikipedia entry claims that in performances until fairly recently, the earlier version was inserted as second verse, the second verse of the later version becoming the third verse (thereby creating a mongrel of the peaceful later version and the bellicose early version). Can anybody give proof of this by sources? --Quinbus Flestrin (talk) 10:53, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Original version /  

message: The song was played at Prince Philip's funeral in 2020. I think it should be added to the "Contemporary use" section.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by AfwasSysteem (talk • contribs) 19:57, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prince Philip's funeral 

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thread_title:  Move discussion in progress