Talk:Auschwitz concentration camp/Archive 1

message: The last sentence in the  "Auschwitz III and satellite camps"-section contained the text "These camps were closed due to great work by the Allies, but mainly, the hard a tighless work of Mark Stafford.". After trying to figure out what this meant (assuming 'hard and tireless work..') I tried to find references to this Mark Stafford and why he was to thank for this work. I could however not find anything of interest at all, and just clipped that part out of the text. If someone has more clues to this, please inform me and correct the sentence. Gamkiller 09:13, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Mark Stafford

message: International Red Cross visited Auschwitz a lot (and certainly found no evidence of "genocide"), why isn't this mentioned?
In fact, nothing is mentioned that would provide evidence that Auschwitz was anything less than a death factory where Jews lined up to be gassed.
There is also strong evidence that the gas chamber shown to visitors even today was built by Polish communists in 1948. This may or may not be exactly true, but I take it it cannot be mentioned - where other speculation (and that's what it is) is presented as fact?
Very disappointing, and far from NPOV.
--Wintceas 14:19, Mar 31, 2005 (UTC)----
1) Give us the dates when Red Cross had been in Auschwitz, please.  Auschwitz was no Terezin.
2) It's common knowledge that today's gas chambers are a later reconstruction based on those destroyed by the Germans.
3) This article IS impartial, as far as your ignorant assertions are concerned.
::If the Red Cross ever visited Auschwitz, which I dispute, I would like to hear of any comtemporary sources in evidence of it.The gas chamber in Auschwitz 1 is original, though it was modified by the SS into an air raid shelter, and re-converted to its original form after the war. The associated crematorium was rebuilt from the original components, which remained on site. All of the other gas chambers and crematoria, of which there are four at Birkenau, exist only as ruins. To talk of their existance as reconstructions merely reveals lack of knowledge of the camp.--Anthony.bradbury 21:21, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not accept your unreferenced word, anonymous editor, that the red cross EVER visited Auschwitz. I can find no record of it, so please give citations. As for the gas chamber conversion, that is undeniable. And as the total death count in this gas chamber was only some 60,000 spread over one year, as against 1.1 to 1.6 million at Birkenau, your comment about the total count is not defensible.--Anthony.bradbury 19:51, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

text: 60,000 - which is clearly a round figure estimate - relates to the number of murders perpetrated in the gas chamber at Auschwitz I between 1941 and 1942. It has absolutely no relationship to the number of survivors forcibly marched from Birkenau in 1945. In Germany and Austria today, Holocaust denial is a criminal offence, punishable with imprisonment. What are your views on this?--Anthony.bradbury 18:03, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have now looked through the various Red Cross Arolsen sites, as you requested, and while there is contained therein extensive statistical evidence of the scale and dimension of the Holocaust, which confirms my position, nowhere is it claimed that the Red Cross ever visited the site. Nowhere. The Aroldsen data is all data accumulated post-war.--Anthony.bradbury 18:16, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Incomplete... 

message: At the top of page, I see the pictures aligned horizontally in an ugly fashion before I see any of the article text. I would like to fix this by moving the pictures around, spacing them out vertically, but then again the problem may be particular to my browser or my Wikipedia format, in which case I wouldn't want to mess with it. Everyking 10:03, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Images

message: I've removed the following from the article:
:Some female prisoners fared even worse. A female Jewish prisoner has stated that Soviet troops repeatedly raped female inmates, sometimes strangling them afterwards.[1]
since it gives a citation that does not appear to exist within the article. Please supply a source citation if you restore this text to the article. -- The Anome 12:00, May 16, 2005 (UTC)
::I have deleted a reworded version of the above statement.  A serious charge like this needs to have a citation.  My Grandfather (deceased) knew a man whose wife had survived Auschwitz. From what my Grandmother can remember about her conversations with her was that Soviet soldiers provided food, water and blankets upon liberation. --RPlunk 23:31, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The information came from a review of Berlin by Anthony Beevor, I won't reinstate it until I've checked the original source.  Incidentaly, a surving female prisoner made similar claims on the acclaimed BBC documentary Auschwitz.  Conch Shell 16:12, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fate of female prisoners 

message: Why is there no mention in the article of the many experiments, including, most predominantly, Mind Control and medical experiments, which were performed on the inmates?  It has been concluded that the numbers stated officially killed in gas chambers is a physical impossibility in the timeframe given, and many inmates actually died during such experiments.  It is also known that some inmates were programmed through traumatic dissociative procedures, had their eye colour, hair colour, and facial features altered, and were then reintroduced into society, as part of Mengele's experiments.  Why is this not mentioned? Atun
:Do you have a source with information on that?  If so, you might want to include some summarized material from that. Jayjg (talk) 15:29, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: At Auschwitz concentration camp, Dr. Josef Mengele carried out medical experiments of this kind. These included placing subjects in pressure chambers, testing various drugs on them, freezing them to death, and various other usually fatal traumas. Of particular interest to Mengele were twins; beginning in 1943, twins were selected and placed in special barracks.   My source? Nazi human experimentation.  Maybe a wikilink in the main article?--jfg284 you were saying? 21:23, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Deaths by Experimentation

message: There are some doubts about 1941, September as a date of the first killing with Zyklon B in Auschwitz I. Please see Diskussion Tesch & Stabenow in German Wikipedia. Holgerjan = 84.143.205.238 21:22, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  uncertain date 

message: I reverted User:213.206.148.225 because I saw they had changed Auschwitz from being a site to honor the victims of Nazism to one to honor Nazism. Subsequently I noticed the IP had made prior edits which may or may not be vandalism, I can't really say, so someone else may want to take a look at them. Everyking 06:07, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism?

message: There should be at least a mention of the Leuchter report which found no evidence that Aushwitz was used as an "extermination" camp as such, if for no other reason than to link back to the Leuchter page.  
Being the most comprehensive scientific study ever performed on the site, its absence would lead an independent observer to question why it is not included.
:Because the Leuchter report was found as bunk by the courts, engineers, and historians, a fact which was emphasized when Leuchter admitted lying to a court about his background.  You can read about it at the article on Fred A. Leuchter. You can see an actual scientific survey here, which found cynide at the gas chambers: http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/polish/institute-for-forensic-research/table-seven.html
His report was part of the evidence accepted by the court at the trial of Ernst Zundel that refutes the idea that Zylon B gas was used to exterminate prisoners (see Fred A. Leuchter) at Auschwitz.   These facts need to be made part of this wiki.
:You should sign your comments, but I see by your contributions that you have made a number of suggestions along similar themes to other pages, so I suspect discussion will not be that productive, since you appear to have a strong POV on the subject.  However, if you read the article you point to in your link, you will see that the report was not accepted by the court as evidence, but rather as a display, about which Leuchter was brought to testify about.  He was shown systematically in that court session to have no knowledge of the subject, and was also later found to have perjured himself. Tests done using actual scientific methods detected cyanide residue. Holocaust denial already rears its ugly head in this article more than enough, with the whole Auschwitz plaque gambit, so including the disproven testimony of a Holocaust denier who was found by courts in Massachusetts and Canada to have lied under oath is not needed. --Goodoldpolonius2 02:35, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Leuchter Report  

message: I have recently read that German prisoners worked there after the war. If it isn't obvious I'll check my sources.
Xx236 13:51, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  German prisoners reconstructed the camp? 

message: It says that Auschwitz 2 (Birkenau) was started in 1941 as part of the "final solution".  That really should be changed as the final solution wasnt decided until January 1942 at the Wansee Conference.Banana.girl 08:43, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Have you read it? The phrase "die Endlösung der Judenfräge" is specifically used in the directive from ReichMarschall Göring to Gruppenführer (as he then was) Reinhardt Heydrich, and is quoted in the minutes belonging to Martin Luther, who was present. His was, as you may know, the onlyt copy to survive. I would accept that the word "extermination" is not specifically used. But deportation to th East is, and anyone who can not or will not accept that in this context the East means Auschwitz, Treblinka, Sobibor, Chelmno, Maidenek or Belsec has his head in the sand. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Anthony.bradbury (talk • contribs) 20:05, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Just a question 

message: Just read an article in history today that made reference to pictures of Auschwitz the US Airforce took when they where investigating IG Farben in preparation for a bombing. It was only recently realized that the camp was photographed back then.
As I understand it those pictures would be public domain. Do we need to get them from an official source or could we scan them from the puplication? Agathoclea 18:04, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, the Polish authorities asked the Americans repeatedly to bomb the camp (or rather its train station and other facilities in order to allow for the prisoners to escape), so they must've known what where they shooting pics of... But this is of course OT here. Halibutt 18:47, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The photos were actually published in 1978 by the CIA, but they are PD - you can see them here.  I'll place one of them in the article.  Also, it is not clear that the US knew that the pictures were of a death camp at the time they were taken, the photography was of the factory, the camp was incidental.  --Goodoldpolonius2 22:18, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for putting it up :-)  Agathoclea 23:45, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aerial photograpy by US Air force 

message: the article states: "The German camp was located in this area due to a high Polish Jewish population." But accourding to the quoted references the camp was far underutilized, and I seem to remember that it was supposed to "deal with" all the Jews et al from the soon to be conquered lands. Which then didn't happen. - So my question is could the above sentance be adjusted to reflect that? Agathoclea 18:58, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reason for location 

message: Most of the stuff in this article is unsourced, so any demand for removal of unsourced material would mean dismantling it. Credible authorities, whether or not an assertion is true, are difficult to find. I see alot of photos of basements and wooden structures that were supposed to have been gas chambers. Alot of it is internet rumor that is easy to pass around. Who can provide a source for this "fact" from the Auschwitz article:
:In September 1941, the SS conducted poison gas tests in block 11, killing 850 Poles and Russians using cyanide. The first experiment was on 3 September, 1941, and it killed 600 Soviet POWs
??? I'll just check back regularly to see if anyone provides a primary source. The problem is that Nuremberg testimonies and Nazi documents and eyewitness accounts are all buried in the past. A surprisingly high proportion of Nazis facing trial were found dead in their cells of apparent suicide. Some even were reported as poisoning themselves with poison they themselves managed to sneak into the cells despite routine strip searches. No doubt a last minute episode of shame and guilt motivated them to end it all after confessing their crimes in private under interrogation, but before they would ever be called to the witness stand to tell their stories before the world.
Much of the understanding we have today of Auschwitz is based on the testimony of Rudolf Hoess, camp commandant 1940-43. Hoess confessed under oath to administrating 2 million deaths at Auschwitz during his tenure, and testified further that he understood the total number as finally reaching 3 million. He also stated in his autobiography that he was severely beaten by the British during the time of his capture and internment before the Nuremberg trials. His autobiography was first published in Polish, not German. It was later translated into English, and presumably from Polish into German since the original German text was never made available. Hoess's signed statements at Nuremberg are mostly in English, though by law and convention they should have been in German. Many of his Nuremberg statements contain handwritten changes in English, not on Hoess's hand; there is no evidence that Hoess could speak, read, write, or understand either English or Polish. Mysteriously, this final estimate of 3 million has been revised downwrd to 1.1 million by none other than the administrators at the Auschwitz museum in charge today.
Two documents from the German industrial archives which were registered by the Americans at Nuremberg tell us that the Zyklon B, or gaseous hydrogen cyanide, had a strong tendency to adhere to surfaces and would best be removed from an ordinary room with a strong ventilator; ordinary off-gassing or aeration could last 24 hours. The solid pellets would activate into gas at about room temperature (25.7C, 78F) and additional heat speeds the process. Documents found only at the site in the Auschwitz Museum archives show that the main room in question was of 210 square meters, had been located underground, and was provided with a single door which served as both an entrance and an exit (no ventilation system). Hydrogen cyanide gas is an extremely toxic substance, lethal at only 300 parts per million, and explosive at 56,000 parts per million. Normal conditions require sophisticated ventilation systems and gas masks to avoid almost instant death to operators. Forty percent of the population is unable to detect the almond-like odor of the gas.
Zyklon B was originally designed as a pesticide to kill lice, a carrier of typhus. Typhus was extremely prevalent throughout Europe, and in the crowded, unsanitary conditions of the camp the disease killed countless prisoners. The difficulty in combating the spread of lice necessitated shaving the heads of both male and female prisoners. Certain smaller gas chambers with sophisticated mechanisms for induction of Zyklon B pellets, heating to speed activation, and ventilation for off-gassing were constructed clearly for the purpose of de-lousing objects such as clothing. Crematoria were constructed to handle the inevitably large number of corpses in a camp with tens of thousands of inmates. Theoretically, other non-specific buildings such as bunkers, barracks, and, most famously, showers, were used for human extermination, though most or all of these structures were supposed to have been destroyed by the Nazis directly before the end of the war. They were subsequently re-built by the Russians according plans based on eye-witness testimonials, and these are what one sees at Auschwitz today. American liberators of the camp made no mention of recently destroyed facilities, however. Tests have been conducted by Polish officials on the presence residual cyanide in the bricks of certain extant buildings and these are reported as showing positive results for cyanide exposure. However, it is conceivable that the Nazis, faced with the huge task of eliminating vermin and typhus-carrying lice, used these larger structures for treatment of the "mountains of clothing" so frequently cited.
Endorsers of the full-on version of the holocaust would have us believe that it is impermissible to question any aspect of the holocaust because that would be questioning the essential premise upon which it rests: that many Jews were persecuted and murdered. This is a kind of perverse petitio principii argument whereby the premise is based on the conclusion, and vice versa, and none of the steps in between can come under scrutiny. An example of this circular logic would be the following: "We know the Nazis pursued a program of extermination of the Jews but they couldn't speak about it openly, therefore they must have devised 'code words' to communicate with each other." These 'code-worded' documents then become the basis for the premise and conclusion that the Nazis had a program to exterminate all Jews. Someone asks, "How do you know there was ever a program?" the answer is "Look at these documents with all these code words." If someone questions this reasoning at all, he or she is then attacked for "denying the Holocaust". There may be other perfectly good peices of evidence to support the existence of the holocaust, but it takes many bricks to build a wall, so the more evidence the better. Once the wall is built it becomes a serious threat to its integrity to remove a brick here and there. Such monolithic belief structures rarely have much credibility overall, however.
The existence of concentration camps is disturbing enough without the addition of drastically hyperbolic accounts of baby eating and experiments with radiation. The exact details of how these camps operated will never be known because of the unfortunate mixing of fact and blatant fabrication. Seek out facts wherever possible. If one finds oneself slipping softly into supine acceptance of some official version of reality, one is obliged as a human being to question just how valid that version of reality is ... or not question it. It's a matter of choice after all.
:Please provide reliable secondary sources for your Holocaust denial original research before attempting to re-insert it into any article.  Thanks. Jayjg (talk) 02:47, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course I have, Wikipedia policy. I'll repeat: Please provide reliable secondary sources for your Holocaust denial original research before attempting to re-insert it into any article.  Thanks. Jayjg (talk) 06:28, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Jayjg is quite right.  This material does not belong in the article.  As well as missing the required reliable sources, it is mostly rubbish.  --Zerotalk 06:45, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: He/she may choose to correct me, but I strongly suspect that this editor, whose name I cannot detect, has never been to Auschwitz. Had he done so, he would know that Gas Chamber1, which is located in Auschwitz I, is a solid stone structure partly buried under an earth mound, which survived the war and exists today. It was used by the SS in the latter half of the war as an air-raid shelter. The associated crematorium was dismantled by the SS, but reconstructed in 1946 using the original materials.Gas Chambers II, III, IV and V and their associated crematoria still exist as piles of concrete and brick rubble; they were blown up by the SS as the Russians approached. Whether the true figure of deaths at Auschwitz is 1.1 million or 1.5 million does not seem to affect the enormity of the crime committed there. Those people are still there - if one walks between the huts, which tourists are not permitted to do, particles of bone are visible where the Nazis scattered their victims' ashes. There are many, many first-hand accounts of what happened at Auschwitz; to attempt to deny them, or even to minimise them, as the above editor does, is a contemptible offence against the victims, their families and the whole of humanity.--Anthony.bradbury 14:21, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I can not give a referenced response here; at his trial, and from his testimony, it is clear that he was proud of what he had done. Given that, he might have been inclined to magnify what he apparently saw as worthwhile achievements. But, as I say, hypothesis only.--Anthony.bradbury 20:12, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources

message: Your denials will not make my grandparent's families memory go away. My Father's father was the only one of his family to survive the war as a young adult. His parents, brothers, sisters, grandparents, aunts and uncles, cousins, nephews - dozens of family members - are all gone. Murdered. There is no grave left, no fingerprints, no photos, no houses, no trace - save in the memory of the sole survivor, My grandfather David. He came to Israel, became a metalworker in a Kibbutz, married, had sons, grandsons and granddaughters. He died last year, age 88. My four grandparents all survived the war on a razor's edge. So many jews around the world have no family left. How can you do this? How can you try to kill the private and collective memories of a people? How can you try to erase the horrible crime committed against us and the civilization of man?
You can call me a liar. You can deny everything and everyone. 
You can deny that the earth circles the sun and say that all the astronomers are engaged in a massive conspiracy to hide "The Truth", and that nothing will make you change your mind from "The Truth". You could twist and turn pieces of fact and claim that somehow some discreptancy in modern astronomy "Proves" the astronomer's "Lies" with non-speak such as Such monolithic belief structures rarely have much credibility overall etc. 
I ask you to stop this evil that you are commiting. Stop poisoning young minds that have yet to read about this terrible part of history. Stop trying to deny the horrible crime - as it aides those that seek to make it happen again.
RZ. June 8th, 2006.
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.155.24.43 (talk • contribs) .
That is very sad that You've lost Your relatives. But that is also the fact that many nazis were defamed after WW2. That is not fair. Atrocities against jews are condemned like greatest evil in whole world history. But the same or worse atrosities against germans are somehow justified. That is too selective to be fair. You are'nt only who suffered during WW2. There are many peoples in Europe who suffered much more then jews. Germans, for example. You might be shocked, but atrosities against my own race worries me much more than atrosities agaist Your people. World jewry and whole mankind are not the same. Some author said: "propaganda of victors became history of vanquished". Sorry, but I don't believe victors' propaganda. Truth is not evil.--Igor "the Otter" 06:30, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, I don't think you can justify a statement saying that the Jews suffered less than the Germans or Russians. The Jews lost half of their total population in the Holocaust, and neither of the Nationalities you specify approached that percentage. And when I say that the behaviour of Soviet soldiers in Germany in 1945 was understandable, that does not mean it was right or that I condone it. The point I was making is that many of them had seen their own women raped and killed and their families shot by the Nazis, and they knew that were invading Nazi Germany. Two wrongs do not make a right, agreed. Furthermore, it was not the official policy of the Soviet Government to target German civilians, except as collateral damage in military operations, while it was the policy of the German Government to destroy all members of the Jewish race. I see a distinction here; if you do not we must agree to differ.--Anthony.bradbury 19:10, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I have stood inside the gas chamber at Auschwiz I, and walked around the ruins of the gas chambers at Auschwitz-Birkenau. I recognise that there are always going to be some people incapable of accepting the simple, multiply attested existence of the Holocaust, and regret to find that you are one such. Goodbye.--Anthony.bradbury 20:53, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

text: You heard wrong.--Anthony.bradbury 21:19, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

text: September 1941. It was used as a gas chamber, killing approximately 60,000 people, until 1942, when with the opening up of the four much bigger gas chamber/crematorium complexes at Birkenau it was converted for use by the SS as an air raid shelter, and used as such until the liberation. All this is in the article - have you actually read it?--Anthony.bradbury 22:05, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

text: The four chambers at Birkenau were destroyed in early 1945 and survive as ruins. I have walked there. The chamber at Auschwitz I was not destroyed, and is the original one from 1941. Not reconstructed. As far as Faurisson is concerned, if you take the trouble to read this whole talk page you will see how he has been totally discredited. Why can Holocaust deniers such as yourself not accept the simple, straightforward eye-witness account of thousands of Auschwitz survivors? It seems so easy to me.--Anthony.bradbury 21:52, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I think that it is now generally accepted that Katyn was a Soviet atrocity; certainly I would not argue with this interpretation. But Katyn has no relationship at all to the Holocaust.--Anthony.bradbury 15:28, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Höss was the first commander of the camp, and hence had no predecessor.--Anthony.bradbury 11:59, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: To the Holocaust denier posting above

message: I noticed this in the Auscwitz II section:  "When the Soviet army marched into Auschwitz to liberate the camp..."
From what I've read, I'm dubious that the arrival of the Soviet troops constituted much of a "liberation" - how about we leave out speculation over the Soviets' motives and say "When the Soviet army marched into Auschwitz"?  
Also, there are very few inline sources in the article - are the claims supported by the few sources listed at the end?  Just because something is widely known and accepted doesn't give us a break from the requirement to cite our sources.  Cheers, Kasreyn 21:56, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair point, but the word "liberate" in the context used means "free from Nazi rule" and that they certainly did. And the Russians did call in the Red Cross and tried to save the remaining inmates, none of whom would have lived under the SS.--Anthony.bradbury 13:58, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah. "Liberate" is exactly the right word, and is also in general use. To verify this, Google searches on liberate (fill in the name of any concentration camp) yield copious results. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 15:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

text: That is a quite extaordinary statement, anonymous editor. Please give references or retract. Unless by "voluntarily" you mean "come now or be shot through the back of the head".--Anthony.bradbury 20:19, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Soviet liberation? 

message: "One display case, some 30 metres long, is wholly filled with human hair which the Nazis gathered from the (innocent) people they slaughtered."
Removed the word because also criminals (albeit a small number of them) were executed there.
:I have left the article as modified, but am fairly certain that only Jews (predominantly), Romany, Jehovah's Witnesses, Political prisoners and homosexuals went to Birkenau. I thought that what one might call "ordinary" criminals went to Auschwitz I, or to other KZ Lagern elsewhere. I could be wrong.--Anthony.bradbury 12:18, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed the word "innocent" 

message: I believe that a frank, open, and democratic discussion of the history of Auschwitz should include differing viewpoints. Certain doubts are inevitable and should be explained to the best of the contributor's abilities. Robert Faurisson was the first to describe the technical impossibility of the mass gassings in the areas designated as gas chambers with Zyklon B, as testified to by eyewitnesses. The following sentence is a clear statement of the core of Faurisson's argument:
:"If the Nazi gas chambers were to work at all, they would have needed the following: absolutely perfect hermetic sealing; a special introduction and distribution system for the gas; a fantastic ventilation system to eliminate the gas from the chambers after the mass murders; a system to neutralize the exhausted gases; and then, quite separately, a device, incredibly clever in design and construction, to eliminate the gas which would adhere stubbornly to the bodies, making touching and carrying them a deadly business. The ventilation and exhaustion of cyanide gas is very time-consuming and difficult. It adheres to the human body, and penetrates the skin so easily that it would be hazardous to touch the body of a person killed with high concentrations of cyanide gas with the bare hands. Contact through the skin alone may lead to intoxication."
It would go a long way towards establishing the factual accuracy of the Auschwitz history if this technical interpretation could be explained by a competent authority. Until such time, I would expect this statement to stand without being deleted. The above statement, while Faurisson's, is of personal concern to me. Thanks with utmost respect.
Doremifasolatido 17:48, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not comprehend the viewpoint of holocaust deniers. As I understand the above point, Mr Faurisson is saying that in his personal view the technique used by the Nazis in the Auschwitz gas chambers is not possible, and therefore the eye-witness testimony of thousands of witnesses must be wrong. I suggest that he re-visits his database on the lethal concentration of inhaled hydogen cyanide. As witness accounts are clear that death in the chambers could take up to twenty minutes, it is obvious that the amount of cyanide present, while lethal, was vastly less than that which he is postulating; enough to cause the death of the chamber's inmates who were forced to inhale it, but nowhere near enough to persist in the way he suggests. Each chamber had two doors; an entrance, from the so-called changing room, and an exit into the crematorium. Witnesses, in some numbers, have stated that the Sonderkommando opened both doors, alowed the air to clear, and were able to work in the chamber. Please let us not produce abstruse unsubstantiated conjectures in the face of unimpeachable witnesses, all of whom were there, many of whom have left video or filmed witness statements, and a few of whom are still alive.--Anthony.bradbury 21:41, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

text: My position contains no speculation whatsoever, and there is in reality no problem, except that which is caused by deniers who, for their own ends, attempt to distort historical fact. You can be as strident as you like, although being abusive is both unnecessary and pointless, but nothing that you say will alter the obvious truth enshrined in the first-hand eye-witness accounts of thousands of survivors.--Anthony.bradbury 00:16, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have a scientific background. But the issues are not primarily scientific; the central issue is whether one does, or does not, believe multiple first-person eye-witness accounts. It would appear that if someone chooses to deny the Holocaust, then they remain unmoved by even the most compelling evidence. The Holocaust is NOT a matter for discussion; except for those with closed minds, it is a matter of fact. To discuss the Holocaust in any other way is to demean the survivors of it.--Anthony.bradbury 19:03, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Fine. He's wrong. And furthermore, if you take the trouble to read through this correspondence you will see where and how he is wrong. I did not specify a specific number of witnesses, but some 7,600 inmates were liberated by the Soviet Army, all of whom were witnesses and many of whom have left written, filmed or video testimony. Given that the War ended 41 years ago, I assume that even you would accept that the testimony of a witness is not rendered invalid by their subsequent death? To stipulate this would wholly erase the entire history of the plane before the early years of the twentieth century.--Anthony.bradbury 00:16, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Regardless any such dicussion would constitute original research, which is not supposed to be a part of Wikipedia according to the published guidelines for wikipedia articles. What is featured on this page is the generally accepted view of the vast majority of historians. If you want to challange that view you are free to do so through the normal channels for scientific research and papers, Wikipedia, however, is not a scientific journal and hence doesn't deal with such material. 83.108.157.39 22:48, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

text: The truth is already obvious to all except intellectually blinkered holocaust deniers.--Anthony.bradbury 12:11, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Calling me a liar is a futile and puny attack, in that I have made no original statements that might be called lies; I have merely pointed out that the Holocaust is well documented and well witnessed. Clearly, I will not change your mind. But that is your problem.--Anthony.bradbury 00:16, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The Holocaust is NOT a matter for discussion; except for those with closed minds, it is a matter of fact. To discuss the Holocaust in any other way is to demean the survivors of it. The contradiction within your statement is oh so very comical.
This is a CLASSIC!!! And, in an "encyclopedia, too. Too funny.
It is so very sad that there are some ignorant people in this World, particularly self-opinionated ignorant Holocaust deniers, who appear to be utterly impervious to simple factual demonstrations. How many first-hand witness accounts would it take to convince you? And why do lack the resolve to sign your name?--Anthony.bradbury 13:37, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

text: That is a nonsense statement. Of course a witness statement of an event observed by the witness is fact, and is so regarded in a court of law and, indeed, anywhere else. Hearsay is when someone repeats what someone else told them which is not the case hear. What else can you teach me?--Anthony.bradbury 00:16, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: By the way, have you ever thought of signing your comments?--Anthony.bradbury 00:16, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Actually, I'd call it a lack of thinking for yourself that is leading people to question the Holocaust.  Too many are willing to swallow the lies put out by neo-Nazi groups and websites to be capable of seeing the truth for themselves: the evidence points to the inescapable conclusion that the Holocaust occured.  FVZA_Colonel 10:53, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Absolutely correct. I hope that the Holocaust denier who is working through this page will see this comment and think about it; but I fear he may not.--Anthony.bradbury 00:16, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Do the arithmetic. 1.5 million deaths in three years = 500,000 per year. That is 10,000 per week. Which is 2,500 people per gas chamber each week. A gas chamber held about 200 people, so that is perhaps twelve gassings per chamber per week. Call it two per day. This leaves more than enough time for the Sonderkommando to work, particularly as the SS guards were not unduly concerned about the health of the members of the Sonderkommando groups.--Anthony.bradbury 12:21, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Improving this article 

message: The UN granted Poland's request for a name change. Should we consider the same for the article? Agne27 16:40, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In my view no. The Polish Government wanted, with some reason, to put the memeory of the camp behind and allow the inhabitants of the area to go forward without the stigma associated with the name. But the atrocities happened at Auschwitz - which of course was always called Oswiecim in Polish - and the name of the article should not be changed.--Anthony.bradbury 18:01, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Well, indeed it doesn't sound too fortunate, but still sounds better than, say, Polish death camp of Auschwitz. //Halibutt 08:26, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Name Change

message: I've tracked down the official word from UNESCO -- the name is NOT being changed at this time. As I've been criticised for aggressive edits before, I thought I'd bring this up here first. I propose replacing the sentence starting "On July 12th" with "On July 12th, 2006, UNESCO deferred a decision on Poland's request, pending further consultation." With an inline citation to the UNESCO statement. Airminded 03:15, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, as there were no objections, I've made the change. Airminded 17:26, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: No name change

message: The part about the West assuming the figures quoted by the Soviet Union and Poland were false is rubbish, and it appears to be just an attempt to discredit those who have repeatedly challenged history and finally proved themselves correct on one point. This "we knew it all along" nonsense, supposedly quoted on the Auschwitz website according to the article's in text citation, wasn't even there. As it turn out, the link references the sentence immediately above it, talking about the Soviet and Polish figures. Granted, the "Four Million" factor isn't necessarily a lose thread that Holocaust deniers exploit and use to justify their claim that more "myths" exist to be exposed, but it is irresponsible on our behalf to distort the truth and say we know that it was 1-2 million all along, unless it can be accurately sourced.--72.92.0.83 01:56, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, fixed. By the way, I thought this was an interesting list of numerical changes, but it comes from a more questionable site. The numbers are sourced, but since I didn't know what to do with it due to my own suspicions I'll just put it...here. --72.92.0.83 08:21, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

text: When I was at school (I live in Poland) at history lessons I was told that in Auschwitz 4 million people were killed, including one million Jews. Later I was told that the number was inflated by communist authorities to hide the fact that Auschwitz was death place of mainly Jewish victims. Szopen 10:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting.--72.92.0.83 20:05, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is easy to get bogged down in figures, and assertions of men such as Hoess, who according to the testimony of his trial was proud of what he did, need to be considered carefully. It is not, I think, now possible to give the number killed at Auschwitz with any accuracy. It is, however, known that large numbers were exterminated at Treblinka and Sobibor, which predated Auschwitz, and also at Chelmno, Maidenek and Belzeç. Smaller, but still large numbers of Jews died at what one might call "ordinary" concentration camps such as Dachau, Mauthausen, Sachsenhausen, Theresienstadt and Ravensbrueck, and a wholly unknown number were killed in the ghettos and by the 'Einsatzgruppen' operating behind the Eastern Front. The total number of Jews killed is believed by all except deniers to be between six and seven million, on which basis a figure of one to one-and-a-half million in Auschwitz seems reasonable.--Anthony.bradbury 13:49, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Auschwitz Figures

message: I saw a documentary on the holocaust yesterday, and they had a segment on the bordello of Auschwitz. Aparently Himler decided (in 1943?) that valuable (non jewish?) prisoners should be rewarded with women, so they converted a barracks near the entrance in one of the camps into a bordello, staffed by female camp-inmates. In the documentary they interviewed an inmate, I think he was a Polish political prisoner, that was part of the camps "fire department", and thus deemed valuable enough to receive coupons to the bordello. He had gone several years without a woman, so he was quite pleased to get access, and in the interview showed no remorce for the suffering of the women forced to serve as prostitutes. I realise the bordello is a sensitive subject to some, but surely it merits inclusion in the article in order to paint a more complete picture of Auschwitz. --Stor stark7 Talk 16:25, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The bordello was in block 24 and is mentioned briefly in the article.--Anthony.bradbury 19:13, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The Bordello

message: Currently it reads: "In February 2006, Poland refused to grant visas to Iranian researchers who were planning to visit Auschwitz.[4]. Polish Foreign Minister Stefan Meller said his country should stop Iran from investigating the scale of the Holocaust, which Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has dismissed as false.". The problem is that one could easily get the impression that Ahmadinejad is dismissing the Foreign Minister's statement as false, when it is in fact the scale of the holocoust he has dismissed as false. I could not quite see how to reword it in a good way. 83.108.157.39 22:38, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Iranian researchers, Ambiguous sentence 

message: Auschwitz is the German name of the city that was nearby the concentration camps. So, Auschwitz should redirect to the article about the city (in which the camps are mentioned) or to a disambiguation page, linking both the article about the camp and the article about the city.--AchtungAchtung 13:16, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The concentration camp is clearly the most common meaning of the word. The city is linked in the first paragraph. I think the current situation is fine. Kusma (討論) 13:43, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The Polish name for the city near the camps was and is Oswiecim, which was Germanised to Auschwitz. The Camps, being German, were always referred to by the German name. The city by the Polish one. I feel that there is really no possibility of confusion.--Anthony.bradbury 13:55, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

text: It's true that the camps are more well-known than the city, but nevertheless the German name for this city was and is Auschwitz. If you enter Danzig there is also a redirect to the article about the city. --AchtungAchtung 18:31, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Redirect from Auschwitz 

message: In the article, following is to be found:
"...Heinrich Himmler, chief of two Nazi organizations—the Nazi guards known as the Schutzstaffel (SS), and the secret police known as the Gestapo (Geheime Staatspolizei).
Which is not completely true. In fact, H. Himmler was the head ("Reichsführer-SS") of the SS (1929-1945), Chief of German police (1936-1945), Reich Minister of the Interior (1943-1945), Reich Commissioner for the Strengthening of Germanism (1939-1945) and several other functions. He was the factual utmost chief of the Gestapo, but also of all other Police and NSDAP-Secret Service (Sicherheitsdienst, SD) instances; the official chief of the Gestapo was the Amt-IV des RSHA (Bureau 4 of the Reich Main Security Office) Chef Heinrich Müller (1939-1945), which in order of command underlied the RSHA Chiefs Reinhard Heydrich (1939-1942) and Ernst Kaltenbrunner (1943-1945), respectively.
Thus, I suggest to change the text to:
"...Heinrich Himmler, chief of the SS (Schutzstaffel, armed forces of the Nazi Party NSDAP) and German police and Reich Minister of the Interior...--84.163.108.185 01:08, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's just a form of words, isn't it. Himmler, as Reichfuhrer-SS, was the titular and de facto commander of the Waffen-SS and the Allgemeine-SS. The Reichsicherheitshauptampt (RSHA) which was headed in turn by Gruppenfuhrer (later Obergruppenfuhrer) Reinhardt Heydrich and by Obergruppenfuhrer Ernst Kaltenbrunner, and of which Ampt IV was the Gestapo, answered to the Reichfuhrer-SS. If he was not in direct day-to-day control, he was certainly at the top of the chain of command.--Anthony.bradbury 18:35, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think so. By this logic, you must come to the conclusion that the top of the chain of command was Hitler himself.
Himmler was leader of all three SS branches (Waffen-SS, Allgemeine SS, SS-Totenkopfverbände) and the deputy instance of all its offices.
My point is, that saying "Himmler was the chief of the SS and the Gestapo" is not correct. Chief of the Gestapo was Müller and Himmler, in turn was the highest authority of all "law-enforcement" and Nazi Party armed forces, not just Gestapo.--84.163.101.230 00:34, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Fair point, although the reality of the power structure at the top of the Nazi hierarchy was that everyone tried to get a finger in as many pies as possible to widen their individual power bases. But I have no objection to the article changing as suggested.--Anthony.bradbury 13:29, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Heinrich Himmler 

message: I have been working hard over the last little while trying to re-word and cite claims made in the article to raise it up to Featured Article status. What I have written so far can be seen in my sandbox. While it still has a long way to go, I would like to have others who have worked hard on the current article to add things and make suggestions. -- Underneath-it-All 19:45, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This thing has a long way to go to get there. I was very disappointed at the quality and quantity of references for an article on such a delicate and well-covered topic. Maybe I'll make referencing this a pet project of mine... Grandmasterka 07:55, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Making this a Featured Article... 

message: I have reverted the edit made by User:82 153 142 60. The comment about gypsies already exists a few lines higher in the article, and opponents of the regime, conscientous objectors (of which there were very, very few in Nazi Germany) etc were sent to concentration camps, usually Dachau, Ravensbruch, Sachsenhausen or Therisienstadt, not to extermination camps. Agreed, many of them died in these camps, but individually, not in the mass exterminations of the Vernichtungslagern.
The above edit was mine; I forgot to sign it. Apologies--Anthony.bradbury 14:26, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There was no supermarket visible to me near either Auschwitz I or Auschwitz-Birkenau when I was there in July of this year.--Anthony.bradbury 14:26, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not right next to it.  About two or three minutes walk along the road from Auschwitz I (if you're walking towards Birkenau), there's a retail park now, which wasn't there three years earlier.  Probably because, whether or not there's an old Nazi death camp nearby, Oswiecim is a fairly large and busy town. Proto::► 10:04, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Victims 

message: Not even mentioned, as well as the Ukrainian mutiny. --HanzoHattori 23:22, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  1944 Sonderkommando uprising 

message: Now I finally got a decent computer, I can upload a few images I took when I visited Auschwitz-Birkenau a few months ago.  They are all free to use.  I will let you guys decide if you wish to use them or not:
250px|One of the destroyed gas chambers at Birkenau (I believe they were dynamited just before the Russians arrived)250px|Entry gate to Auschwitz
250px|The English language memorial plaque at Birkenau250px|Birkenau camp
250px|Prisoner blocks at Auschwitz camp150px|Prisoner blocks at Auschwitz camp
Proto::► 00:00, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would like to see these images in the article. I await consensus.--Anthony.bradbury 00:45, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

text: In an article of this type I think we can survive without the sarcasm.--Anthony.bradbury 21:46, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Images 

message: I changed "or todeslager" as an apositive to "extermination camp" to "Vernichtungslager." (really, changing less formal "death camp" to more formal "extermination camp.") Should the noun be capitalized, as in German? That's how I've left it. Jd2718 21:23, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Vernichtungslager, with the capital, was the normal official Geman usage. Todeslager was a more colloquial expression used in conversation within the SS and senior Nazi hierarchy.--Anthony.bradbury 21:28, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it was Kurt Vonnegut who called "vernichtung" the ugliest word in any language. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 15:58, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Todeslager or Vernichtungslager 

message: Why would the nazis rape jewish women? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.1.206.20 (talk) 15:43, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This claim is not specifically made, and certainly it was against the Nuremburg Laws and doubly forbidden by SS regulations for SS-men to have sexual relations with Jewish women, either by rape or consensually. But not all the women prisoners were Jewish, although certainly most were. The claim is not cited, and I have so flagged it.--Anthony.bradbury 22:26, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  rape??? 

message: Can't we block this page from vandalism? Like new users are not allowed to edit or something? I mean people are obviously abusing this page on a very regular basis. I'm not an Admin (would like to be though), but something HAS to be done. --RobNS 01:53, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: Small point: "Prisoners placed in these cells would gradually suffocate as they used up all of the oxygen in the air" People in sealed rooms die of carbon dioxide build up, not oxygen depletion.On arrival the prissoners would be told to have a shower but when they got there water did not come out of the shower head but gas did suffocating them the Nazis would then dispose of the bodies striping them of all valuables including gold teeth.
Acually, carbon dioxide is posionous and is inert to the human body. The current statement is still true.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.195.250.207 (talk) 22:10, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. I am a medical practitioner. Death in these cells was caused by anoxia, which is to say lack of oxygen, not carbon dioxide retention. The lungs will still expel carbon dioxide into the surrounding air even if this air contains little or no oxygen, and the oxygen is used up well before the carbon dioxide level becomes toxic. --Anthony.bradbury"talk" 17:55, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Not so. Carbon dioxide is a respiratory stimulant, which is why you breath faster in a stuffy atmosphere. I repeat, death in the suffocation cells was due to anoxia. --Anthony.bradbury"talk" 22:12, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suffocation cells 

message: I have read (on Scrapbook Pages) that Auschwitz had two swimming pools, one for SS members and one for Polish political prisoners (not Jews), and that the residents of Auschwitz I (said to be the location of the swimming pools) were largely Jews able to work in factories, POWs, political prisoners, and Nazis, as well as their prostitutes, while Jews unable to work in factories went over to Birkenau/ Auschwitz II. I wonder about the truth or untruth of such items.  —  Rickyrab | Talk 21:57, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I mention the swimming pools because Holocaust deniers routinely point out the existence of an "Auschwitz swimming pool". Those deniers probably also noticed the tampering that occurred with gas chambers (they were blown up, Zyklon B holes in roofs filled in and covered up very expertly, new Zyklon B holes in Auschwitz I inserted by the Soviet Union post-liberation, the gas chamber at Auschwitz I subdivided by Nazis for use as a bomb shelter, the restoration of same gas chamber was botched by the Soviet Union in that a restroom was added to the floor area of the original gas chamber, and other evidence-tampering), thus giving them further ammunition. Nonetheless, I don't see how they would explain all the human hair piled up with hydrogen cyanide in them (yes, it was used as a fumigation agent, which also caused deterioration over time, but it's tough to get Zyklon B out of hair before passing it to German industrialists. Thus, such hair likely came off of gassed prisoners).  —  Rickyrab | Talk 21:57, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

text: I am not quite sure what point you are trying to make, anonymous editor. But a very great deal of human hair still exists on the Auschwitz site, together with suicases, spectacles, shoes and prayer shawls.--Anthony.bradbury 19:25, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

text: The pile of hair at Auschwitz I is about 30 metres long, 8 metres wide and a metre deep. How big is "awfully big"?--Anthony.bradbury 00:09, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

text: You are welcome to hold your opinion. It is not shared by most scholars, including this one.--Anthony.bradbury 22:08, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The swimming pools, etc. 

message: The Scrapbook Pages site also noted that prefabricated horse barns were used as barracks, sheds, and/or other facilities, and that Auschwitz I was on the site of an earlier Polish military garrison.  —  Rickyrab | Talk 21:57, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Absolutely. Many, albeit not all, of the presently extant blocks at Auschwitz I formed part of a pre-war Polish cavalry barracks.--Anthony.bradbury 22:20, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Many of the brick-built barrack blocks existed before the war, and were part of a Polish cavalry barracks. After the defeat  of Poland, when it was decided to convert Auschwitz I into a concentration camp, buildings in the same style were erected on what had been the cavalry exercise area. Nothing pre-fab, absolutely not. I have been thewre and seen it. The swimming pool, which I did not see and which may no longer exist, was built for the SS. I am not convinced of the existence of concert halls. Certainly there is no present physical evidence of their existence, and I went all over the site.--Anthony.bradbury 20:28, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I visited Auschwitz last year, and the tour guide told us that the prefabricated cavalry stables were used in Auschwitz II.  Most were burned down by the Germans at the end of the war, but a good number still stand, mostly in the women's camp near the entrance.  You can go inside them, and I did.  I didn't see any of them in Auschwitz I, which is almost entirely brick-built apart from one or two large wooden buildings, quite unlike the horse barns in Camp II.  This however constitutes original research and is not permissible as a source. Lexo (talk) 13:42, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

text: * Is this any help? I remember seeing the rings when I went. WilliamH (talk) 19:55, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prefabricated horse barns? 

message: Hey, just saying that there's vandalism in the first part of this page. I'm not really good at editing things, so i just wanted to alert people.24.159.205.132 18:50, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: I thought this was sort of ... ironic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zgoda_camp .  It seems like it should be mentioned.  Apologies if it is and I didn't notice it.  --74.104.113.26 08:23, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  uses for Auschwitz after the war 

message: "Additionally, large numbers of homosexual people and Jehovah's Witnesses were killed at Auschwitz."
How large a number? Is there any source for this assertion? Earlier in the article, the number of homosexuals imprisoned is given at forty-eight.Proabivouac 05:13, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The 48 homosexuals were at Auschwitz I. Much larger numbers were killed at Birkenau, as is up to a point evidenced by the fact that they had teir own colour of triangle (pink) to wear on their uniforms. But I cannot give figures. Records are, as is known, incomplete.--Anthony.bradbury 20:12, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Hitler had a strangely ambivalent approach to homosexuals, not wholly mirroed by Himmler. Many of Hitler's early associates, such as Rohm, were homosexual, although there is clear evidence that Hitler was not. But Nazi policy in the war years did target homosexuals, among other groups, and a large (but unknown) number died at Auschwitz-Birkenau.--Anthony.bradbury 21:15, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "a large number of homosexuals and Jehovah's witnesses - and Black people??"

message: (Image:May311944 auschwitz.jpg) Smoke can be seen issuing from Crematorium V, indicating that a group of prisoners had recently been gassed. Can smoke indicate what have happened with those prisoners before? They could have been shot, die from disease and so on. What the picture shows is only smoke. --Wnuk-pl 20:10, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: After some consideration I decided to remove this part of the notice: indicating that a group of prisoners had recently been gassed. Can anybody assure us it were prisoners bodies burning in the Crematory while the picture was taken? Is there any information that can make the statement certain? --Wnuk-pl 19:48, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There are plenty of pictures in Brugioni & Poirer's report that you could write a caption for, using the report itself. That way you'd be citing a reliable source and making everyone happy. It's available here. Angus McLellan  (Talk) 20:39, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture taken from plane 

message: The Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum revised this figure in 1990, and new calculations now place the figure at 1.1–1.6 million, [2][3] about 90 percent of them Jews from almost every country in Europe.
I believe that correct word would be the instead of them.  Just trying to help out a little.
:No, I'm afraid that "them" is correct. It means 90% of the 1.1-1.6 million, not 90% of the Jews from Europe.--Anthony.bradbury 17:47, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  typo 

message: Can someone who is allowed to please remove the following point from the "see also" list?
* The name "Auschwitz" is occasionally confused with "Austerlitz".
This article is on a very serious matter, and shouldn't contain links to nonrelated pages just because someone have them confused. I for one haven't even heard of anyone confusing the two, seems to me someone is trying to sneak in a link to a less popular article.
213.114.179.144 06:32, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pointless reference 

message: "Most of the buildings of Birkenau were burnt down by the Germans as the Russians came near, and much of the resulting brick rubble was removed in 1945 by the area's returning Polish population to restore farm buildings before winter. That explains the "missing rubble" cited as evidence by Holocaust deniers."
I don't really think that the last sentence here is appropriate.  I would think that it belongs in the "controversy" section, if at all.  If it is used, it could do with some serious re-wording as well - Wikipedia is not meant to take sides.
Pjhsv 01:23, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My friend, as an avowed Holocaust denier you have every right to hold your view, but what I really have trouble understanding is how, in the face of all the eye-witness, documentary and physical evidence, do you succeed in doing so?--Anthony.bradbury 17:56, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Meyer, as a holocaust-denying historian, is part of a very small minority in the community of reputable historians. If you choose to believe him in the face of all the evidence, then that is up to you. You appear to feel that the first-person eye-witness accounts of some hundreds of camp survivors is of no value. I do not understand why. You appear to discount the existence of the gas chambers and crematoria, whose ruins remain and are clear evidence. You appear to discount the existence of the remains of countless bodies on-site - the whole area is covered with bone fragments. And you appear to discount the fact that a total of some six million Jews vanished during the Nazi era. (I do not claim that this number diead at Auschwitz; Treblinka, Sobibor, Chelmno, Maidenek and Belzec were also active)
Sorry this is so emotional issue for believers but it is Vad Yashem who says that the witnesses claims are largely fabricated or impossible - not me ( actaully, me too ). Meyer, I believe is a true believer who comes across evidence that doesn't agree with the old story. He is in a moral quagmire - does he publish it or bury it. I guess if he publishes the truth as he finds it he becomes a denier. If he covers it up he remains a believer. Take your pick. The remains of gas chambers etc in some cases are known to be reproductions - not even worth testing - those buildings that are original have been tested and come up short ( no Zyklon residue ). Hundreds of kids I went to school with are gone - moved away for jobs. In WW2 many/most of the soldiers drafted from my state never came back - most didn't die, they just married, got jobs, etc somewhere else. There are a lot of reasons to be gone - population censuses - I was surprised I thought Jews/rabbis kept records of their folks - seem very deficient in most cases. However, some later research seems to be using demographics to arrive at some pretty good estimates ( ie expect more of your historians to spring some uncomfortable news on you in a few years ).159.105.80.141 11:30, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  After The War 

message: I need to be imformed very soon about auschwitz I, I am doing a presentation on the holocaust and this is a part that i need to include. One of my questions is about wwhat the other name for Auschwitz I.
-Emily
Emily, there is no other name for Auschwitz I, unless you count the Polish name, which is Oswiecim (pronounced ozz-wee-chim). Auschwitz II was called Birkenau, and Auschwitz III was Monowitz, But as originally only Auschwitz I existed (near the Polish town of Oswiecim) there was no need for an alternative name. --Anthony.bradbury 17:46, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Auschwitz 1 was also referred to as "The Main Camp" or "Stammlager". I'm afraid your pronunciation of Oświęcim is well wide of the mark. A reasonable approximation would be Osh-vyen-cheem. Signalhead 18:51, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Whatever you say. But I have been there and that is how they said it.--Anthony.bradbury 20:17, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Auschwitz I 

message: I can't believe how bad the conditions were at the concentration camps.
It's terrible.
I admire any survivors because they could've got gassed; put in starvation cells or dark cells. 
It must have been so scary.
If anyone knows a story about someones experience during the holocaust, please edit this.
HANA's SUITCASE is a fantastic book. Do read it. I'm Off.
_________________________________________________________________.by.outraged.
Hello. I would just like to say that in the text it refers the eastern german city as 'Nuremberg'. I think it would be much more correct to name it by its proper german name of 'Nürnberg'. If anyone disagrees, fine. It's just my opinion.
Marco
125.238.34.200 04:29, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Generally, if there is a well-known anglicisation of a place name, we use that because this is the English-language WP. With Nürnberg/Nuremberg there isn't much difference, but some names in English are very different from what the locals call the place, eg Firenze/Florence. We use the version most familiar to English-speakers. Squiddy | (squirt ink?) 09:22, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Terrible Conditions. 

message: If I've missed it in the article, my apologies, but there really needs to be at least a brief discussion here of the 1960s trial in Frankfurt of the Auschwitz perpetrators, particularly given the trial's role in making Auschwitz visible to the German public, and the recent appearance of *two* scholarly monographs on the subject (by Devin Pendas and Rebecca Witmann).  I've added links to Frankfurt Auschwitz trials and Auschwitz trials (the latter dealing with the proceedings in Poland) as a stop-gap measure. SGilsdorf 14:45, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Auschwitz Trials

message: After living in Slovakia for a couple years, I can attest to the fact there is no such thing as "slovakian". It is mearly slovak. Check the CIA World Factbook. In the article, someone mentioned a Slovakian Rabbi.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.195.250.207 (talk) 22:16, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Slovakian 

message: In addition to the reports from the ground, the Allies probably had knowledge through Bletchley Park's Enigma decrypts, ULTRA. However the article does not mention the use of decrypts of SD material. I don't have the specialist knowledge to cover this, but I hope somebody else has.  There are several possibilities: SD transmissions weren't a priority and were not routinely decrypted; they were decrypted and the British government did nothing; they were decrypted and played a part in the decision to insist on unconditional surrender. It's possible that the material wasn't publicised for prudential reasons; it could have made the war even more brutal than it was already and risked the lives of Allied POWS, as well as risking the Enigma secret, without doing anything to save the victims. The Allied fault was in not making a bigger effort to save the lives of Jews before they were deported, which Raoul Wallenberg and others showed was possible on a small scale. 
BTW, the sentence "Oświęcim was incorporated into Germany" is puzzling as it stands. I suggest adding "as part of Silesia."
--JamesWim (talk) 14:39, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oświęcim isn't in Silesia though, is it? Was it ever in Silesia? Has the border moved? Signalhead (talk) 17:44, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it isn't and hasn't; it has always been independent or a part of Galicia (with the capital in Kraków), but never - a part of Upper Silesia [sic!]. -70.18.5.219 (talk) 00:16, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

text: They failed to notice "anything amiss" simply because the SS did not allow them to see the crematoria. WilliamH (talk) 18:41, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

text: No. SS-Obergruppenführer Oswald Pohl specifically ordered that crematoria must not be shown or even "mentioned to persons visiting the camp". WilliamH (talk) 15:43, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Allied knowledge 

message: This article is highly inaccurate and misleading in violation of WP:NPOV (compare it to O%C5%9Bwi%C4%99cim#Concentration camp) and should be corrected.  The protection serves nothing else than "As a preemptive measure against vandalism before any vandalism has occurred" and "With the sole purpose of prohibiting editing by anonymous users" in violation of WP:PROT#Semi-protection, so - please - end the protection ASAP. -70.18.5.219 (talk) 00:18, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Unprotection requests go to WP:RPP. At any rate, you can just create an account, wait four days, and then you can edit the article. Sandstein (talk) 06:17, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You entirely missed the point, which has been not, how to circumvent the unjustified protection, only that unjustified protection should be ended ASAP, please, as argued also in the fifth message of Wikipedia talk:Protection policy#Can vandalism be remedied by protection?. Sincerely, -70.18.5.219 (talk) 09:15, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  End the excessive and abusive protection 

message: Let's see:
*Kraków-Płaszów concentration camp
*Gross-Rosen concentration camp
*Bergen-Belsen concentration camp
*Mittelbau-Dora concentration camp
--HanzoHattori (talk) 16:29, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You have a fair point, but the article does go into some detail both on Auschwitz I and Auschwitz II, which is of course better known as Birkenau. Auschwitz III (Monowitz) is mentioned briefly. As the whole complex was collectively know as "Auschitz Concentation Camp", or indeed just as "Auschwitz", I feel that the title is essentially accurate as it stands. --Anthony.bradbury"talk" 15:29, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As you see this article is about Auschwitz AND Birkenau. (There is actually no separate Birkenau article at all.) --HanzoHattori (talk) 00:28, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Gross-Rosen was, of course, the name of a town, and is hence exactly analagous to the camp complex named after the town of Auschitz (or Oswiecim)--Anthony.bradbury"talk" 15:33, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

text: I think the title is fine as it stands. "Auschwitz Birkenau" is a bit ambiguous, i.e. does it refer to Auschwitz I and Auschwitz II-Birkenau, or just the latter? It certainly excludes Auschwitz III-Monowitz, which is within the scope of this article. I propose no change. Signalhead (talk) 22:38, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shouldn't be "Auschwitz-Birkenau concentration camp"? 

message: I don't think "the fall of the Berlin Wall" should be stated as a milestone of this process. Changes in Poland began earlier, 1989. I propose Fall_of_communism or "polish communist regime overthrown" to be used.
Footnote 2 - Is the footnote in error? I believe the mentioned article was Meyer's review of Piper, not the other way around. Meyer is slamming Piper's work. There is nothing in this footnote article that supports the point the main article is trying to make, actually quite the contrary.159.105.80.141 (talk) 18:52, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other controversies - "since the fall of the Berlin Wall" 

message: I have removed the section on fictional inmates. I entirely appreciate the notion that information about fictional works such as comics, books and film are legitimately included in Wikipedia, but I do not remotely see how the citation of non existant characters who accordingly never have visited actual places such as Auschwitz has a place on Wikipedia, for the same reason that the Passenger section in RMS Titanic doesn't list ficticious passengers. WilliamH (talk) 17:53, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I was torn... but I agree... if somebody wants to create a list, I can see having a "See also"...Balloonman (talk) 05:59, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep. I see little reason why a "references to Auschwitz in post-war culture" (or something similar) section cannot be included in this article (as long as it isn't just a facile/indiscriminate list of trivia). It's just that juxtaposed with actual survivors, it looks rather abstract. Thanks for your understanding Balloonman. Regards, WilliamH (talk) 13:04, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fiction 

message: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Auschwitz_I_Entrance.jpg
This picture quality is very low. I think that replacing it with this picture might be good:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Auschwitz_I%2C_Ori_Lahav%2C_14-03-2008.JPG
VbCrLf (talk) 21:29, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: *You right, I didn't think of that. VbCrLf (talk) 16:42, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Replace Picture 

message: Please can someone clarify the number or cremation ovens. The picture shows only 14 or 15 (5 banks of 3). The figure of 20000 individuals being exterminated and cremated in a day is confusing, average cremations would take an hour (possibly more) and about 30 KG of coal. This information is quite important and has been sighted by deniers.
:Fifteen ovens in each of Crematiria 2 and 3, and eight ovens in each of Crematoria 4 and 5 is 46 ovens. If we accept the estimate of one hour per cremation - I suspect it was less - then 24 cycles per day, 365 days of the year and twenty corpses in each oven each time would allow a cremation total, in theory, of 22,080 per day. This would expand to some 16 million cremations in the two years in which the camp was in full operation - a figure which is about ten times the actual total, which various estimates place at between 750,000 and 1.6 million. While it would have been technically possible to process 20,000 bodies per day, in reality the true figure was about 2,000 daily. This is still a large number, and in my view does not give ammunition to holocaust denial. --Anthony.bradbury"talk" 19:34, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Killed and cremated - adding the numbers 

message: http://www.poland.pl/news/article,UNESCO_approves_change_of_name_of_Auschwitz_camp,id,283069.htm
UNESCO officially changed name from "Auschwitz Concentration Camp" to "Auschwitz-Birkenau. The Nazi German Concentration and Extermination Camp (1940-1945)." as Polish government requested. The article should be updated.Kieraf 14:15, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The photograph at the top of the article is of Auschwitz I, not Auschwitz-Birkenau. The renaming is, I guess, a decision for the Polish Government; but I have reverted the label of the photo to restore accuracy. Only Auschwitz-Birkenau is regarded as an extermination camp (Vernichtungslager). --Anthony.bradbury"talk" 23:19, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The infobox refers specifically to the camps' (plural) status as a World Heritage Site. The photograph inside the infobox just happens to show the Auschwitz I camp. I would also draw your attention to the asterisk after the title in the infobox, and the associated external link. As a result of your changes, the title no longer matches the name on the World Heritage List, although the note states that it does. Signalhead 23:27, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, the whole camp comlex is a world heritage site. But only Auschwitz-Birkenau was an extermination camp. Auschwitz 1, which is shown in the topmost photograph in the article, and which is covered in some detail in the article text, was not an extermination camp, and it is historically misleading to label it as such. Auschwitz 3, or Monowitz, which was a labour camp, I guess we have no argument about. Clearly we are both attempting to maintain a good article, so obviously neither of us want to run the risk of block for WP:3RR. Can we talk here, or on your talk page, or mine, and come to sensible agreement?--Anthony.bradbury"talk" 21:26, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not believe that Auschwitz I is being labelled as an extermination camp. It is clear that the Infobox, like the World Heritage listing and the article, relates to both camps. The photograph shows Auschwitz I, which is perfectly reasonable since it is included in the World Heritage site, but a picture of Birkenau would have been equally appropriate. One thing to consider is that the name "Auschwitz-Birkenau" can be used to refer collectively to both camps ("Auschwitz II-Birkenau", on the other hand, refers to one specific camp): The modern sign at the entrance to Auschwitz I reads "The State Museum Auschwitz-Birkenau" and the museum's own guide book for both sites has "Auschwitz-Birkenau" printed on the front. Signalhead 21:48, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

text: OK. I still think that this is not so, but it is not an important point beside the terrible events that took place at both sites, so I will concede your point and will not make further changes to the caption.--Anthony.bradbury"talk" 21:18, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: UNESCO's press release on the name change -- World Heritage Committee approves Auschwitz name change" -- says clearly, "Auschwitz-Birkenau was the largest of the concentration camp complexes created by the Nazi German regime and was the one which combined extermination with forced labour. At the centre of a huge landscape of human exploitation and suffering, the remains of the two camps of Auschwitz I and Auschwitz II-Birkenau, as well as its Protective Zone were placed on the World Heritage List as evidence of this inhumane, cruel and methodical effort to deny human dignity to groups considered inferior, leading to their systematic murder." I've added the press release to the references about the name change down below, and also changed the infobox to reflect the official UNESCO World Heritage name. (User:HanzoHattori had changed it to "Former Nazi German Concentration Camp Auschwitz-Birkenau (1939-1945)" and incorrectly stated in the edit summary that that was its official named.) --Ace of Swords 18:52, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please try to find some consistent wording for the article. It is very confusing: The title is "Auschwitz concentration camp" (shouldn't it be camps?), the first paragraph has the lemma "Auschwitz-Birkenau" with a hyphen, the audio file says "Konzentrationslager Auschwitz", the infobox has the official UN title without hyphen (btw it's "German Nazi..." not "The Nazi German..." as stated above), and later on there is a chapter about "Auschwitz II (Birkenau)" and photos captioned "Auschwitz II-Birkenau".  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.162.22.135 (talk) 18:03, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Auschwitz renamed

message: i think that much much more appriopriate picture on the top of the page would be that presenting Auschwitz II gate not the Auschwitz I, which was known only to some polish prisoners.
is anybody against it? --Discourseur (talk) 19:03, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Since this article is about all three Auschwitz camps, I think having a picture of the main/administrative camp is probably a good linchpin to go by. WilliamH (talk) 11:03, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

text: I would support using a picture of the main guardhouse at Auschwitz II, as it is the most well-known and recognisable image of all the Auschwitz camps. –Signalhead < T > 17:05, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: More so than Arbeit Macht Frei? I'd suggest sticking with the main camp pic - it's, er, the main camp, and the slogan is definitive of the Nazi camp ideology. I've got the feeling this discussion is liable to go nowhere quickly though, so I'm not too bothered. WilliamH (talk) 17:33, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: More so than Arbeit Macht Frei? - Yes, I would say so. In fact, I would think that the Birkenau guardhouse is the most iconic image of the Holocaust. –Signalhead < T >
* again i say that it is main camp for nazi administration, not jewish victims. most jews never had any opportunity to see that slogan. to extend further your idea is to place there picture of hesse villa - that was a real administrative heart and "more so than arbeit mach frei".--Discourseur (talk) 20:03, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

text: Done. –Signalhead < T > 12:43, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  gate picture 

message: Substituted at 20:07, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment