Talk:Phantom power

message: Can someone provide a reference for: 1.2 kΩ for 24 V?
Where does this come from? I can't find any reference to this...  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.147.175.24 (talk) 08:27, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you provide a reference to any such standard? I don't know about it. Altaphon (talk) 20:58, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Standards 

message: Major rewrite. To be done: add references to the IEC standard (EN 61938) and DIN 45596. Also if anyone can improve the style and/or add the usual Wiki cross-references, great. I'm kind of new at this. DSatz 13:46, May 8, 2005 (UTC)
:I did some of this. In the meantime the IEC standard has been revised, have corrected the references to match the new version. Altaphon (talk) 23:09, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rewrite

message: Someone added the claim that Neumann (= Georg Neumann GmbH, Berlin) invented phantom powering in 1966. That is indeed the year of Neumann's first phantom-powered microphones (the KM 83, KM 84 and KM 85) according to Neumann's history chart (see http://www.neumann.com/infopool/download.php?Datei=docu0051.PDF) and other sources. It may well be that Neumann introduced 48-Volt phantom powering.
But the article also mentions a system used by French radio somewhat prior to this time, with 9 - 12 Volt phantom powering and a positive circuit ground. Nagra analog tape recorders, including my IV-S right ... here ... (stretching) ... supported this "negative phantom" powering system, which matched the positive ground power supply of the Nagra itself. To my knowledge the first studio microphones made for that system were the Schoeps CMT 2-- series (CMT 24, 25, etc.). I have a schematic for their circuit dated July, 1964, but the company says that the microphone itself was introduced only in 1965. I haven't been able to resolve that difference yet (Schoeps never kept such good historical records, unfortunately).
At any rate it seems clear that Neumann adapted this powering method to what eventually became its most popular form, but they didn't invent it. DSatz 22:13, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I came here to say the same this. I can find no reliable source on this: everything I see online is clearly citogenesis. I believe the information about the origins should be removed. 47.55.126.103 (talk) 04:52, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin 

message: This is mentioned near the beginning of the article, with no explanation as to what it is. I have a rough idea, but not really enough to add it to the article. Perhaps someone who knows more about this subject could do so? 82.32.46.112 22:06, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: DI box — Omegatron 20:51, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  DI Box 

message: ... see Power over Ethernet--195.137.93.171 (talk) 12:35, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: But that isn't called "phantom power," mostly because the technique is very different. Phantom power is carried on the same conductors that are used for the audio signal, hence no extra conductors or connector pins are needed - hence "phantom." PoE is carried on those extra pairs of the Ethernet cable that aren't used for data. There's nothing "phantom" about it. Jeh (talk) 05:34, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  It's called "phantom" because a dynamic microphone (or differential amplifier) will not see it. The microphone capsule will operate between the "Hot" and "Cold" wires of a balanced signal line, while the phantom power keeps both signal wires of the balanced signalling at +48 V (or whatever voltage is used) in reference to the signal ground. Also, on the input side, a differential amplifier will measure the voltage between "Hot" and "Cold" lines and the +48 V (or whatever) on both will cancel out due to common mode rejection. The voltage between "Hot" and "Cold" is always the signal voltage only - not superimposed on a DC offset - hence "phantom". 79.245.163.217 (talk) 09:33, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

text: Phantom power is also applicable to active antennas in RF reception. For example, many cars now use active antennas (if you've ever seen a shark fin on a late model car, that's why), and some of them use phantom power. In these applications, you generally use chassis as a ground point, and inject DC voltage on the center conductor of an RF cable, the main goal being cost reduction (one less cable to run). But overall, this page is a very narrow view of a very general concept: any time you want to put power and signal on the same cable -- separating them at either end with appropriate blocks and chokes -- you can call it "phantom power". -- SickOfNewSNs (talk) 21:00, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not just microphones ... 

message: Please Talk:XLR connector#Parallel powering information for questions about early phantom power scheme and discussion of article overlap. --Kvng (talk) 23:12, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cross post from [[XLR connector]] 

message: Does this really belong here? The techniques described have very little in common with phantom power. Shouldn't this material be in the "Microphones" article? Jeh (talk) 06:16, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Since phantom power is a solution for powering microphones, I think that related methods for powering microphones ought to be summarized briefly, to show the problems that phantom powering solves, or to tell the reader how the field has some confusing practices. Binksternet (talk) 15:42, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  But the article isn't called "methods for powering microphones". It's called "Phantom power" and the lede makes specific reference to a standard that does not include these other methods. I'm suggesting moving the details of the "other methods" to the "Microphones" article and leaving a reference to that article here, with brief descriptions - say one sentence for each method. Jeh (talk) 20:26, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the information is better placed here than in Microphone. You can propose a change of title or clarify the lead to indicate that the scope of this article extends beyond IEC 61938. -—Kvng 18:28, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Other microphone powering techniques" section 

message: Perhaps Bias tees should be linked somewhere. Hhm8 (talk) 03:20, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bias tees 

message: I find that the page is missing details as to why it's called "Phantom Power", because if one thinks hard enough there is always obviously a power supply if you go far enough back in the circuit.
Various comments on internet blogs suggest that the simplest and most obvious reason is because early condenser microphones used to have an auxiliary power cable, which is no longer present, thus "phantom" power--when it is actually being delivered on the same cable the audio signal travels through.
Though this explanation were true, then it would imply that the terminology is somewhat deprecated since it is quickly escaping living memory. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.157.137.55 (talk • contribs) 
:Douglas Spotted Eagle wrote in 2005 that phantom power got its name from being "a power source that you can't really see." I would challenge his definition by pointing out that it's possible to buy a very visible external power source which is called a phantom power unit.
:The Mackie mixer instruction book from the 1990s says "It's called phantom power because the voltage supplied to the mics travels on the mic cable itself, without any extra wires."
:John Eiche wrote the following in 1990 on page 55 of Guide to Sound Systems for Worship: "Sometimes provision is made to supply this voltage directly through the microphone cable. This procedure is called phantom powering."
:I was taught in the late 1980s that the name refers to a power source on the XLR line that dynamic mics ignore. They can't see it but it's there, so it's 'phantom' in that sense. Binksternet (talk) 04:40, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: The name "phantom power" derives from the Phantom circuit, which was known and used already since the 19th century in telegraphy/telephony. The Power-over-Ethernet circuit is almost directly taken from this old circuit, therefore PoE is correctly referred to as an application of phantom power. The microphone powering scheme is essentially one half of it. The distinguishing feature is the use of a balanced pair as one leg of the phantom circuit, while the other leg can be a ground connection or another balanced pair. The separation between the main circuit and the phantom circuit hinges on the balance of the main circuit. This is in contrast to circuits that impress a DC voltage onto the main circuit, where the separation is done in the frequency domain, with a diplexer or bias tee. 2A03:80:B3F:F500:68CF:EF25:40EA:911B (talk) 08:51, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etymology of "Phantom Power", or "why not just Power?"