Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Motorcycling/Archive 3

message: If anyone cares to take a look over Quasar (motorcycle), I'd really appreciate it. I wrote it waaay back when before I knew about wikifying and inline references and so on, and to make a long story short I'm nowhere near as good at overhauling articles as writing them to begin with. I just don't really know where to start with it, if someone took the time to do it it could be a nice article. -_lucid 15:53, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just did a bit of a tidy up. Could definitely do with some more references for the history section. --Cheesy Mike 17:22, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  I could use some help 

message: As part of the Notability wikiproject, I am trying to sort out whether Twinshock is notable enough for an own article. I would appreciate an expert opinion. For details, see the article's talk page. If you can spare some time, please add your comments there. Thanks! --B. Wolterding 20:06, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll give it a go Pickle 01:57, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Expert review: Twinshock 

message: I have now proposed to merge the content of Twinshock into Suspension (motorcycle). You're welcome to participate in the discussion if you like. --B. Wolterding 15:52, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposed: Twinshock → Suspension (motorcycle) 

message: I need some help in adding some material to Travis Pastrana, but I am unfamiliar with this project's manual of style can someone please read my comment on Talk:Travis Pastrana and add it, thanks! 10:48, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Off road riders are my thing, i'll give you a hand ;P Pickle 16:49, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  I need some help 

message: Motorcycle club is currently up for peer review.  Additionally, myself and War are kicking around the idea of starting up Wikiproject:Motorcycle clubs or at least a subpage here at WikiProject Motorcycling to codify some standards about how these articles should be organized and so forth.  Given that there are only about 40 motorcycle club articles, I'm not sure the adminstrative overhead justifies a project all its own.  I need some ideas.  Help! Mmoyer 02:20, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A new project for such a small number of possible articles is definitely overkill especially when you consider there are several groups of topics within this project that already have many more articles than you suggest and they don't have their own project. If you proposed it at WikiProject Council's Proposals you will likely be told it will be more appropriate as a task force within the existing WikiProject. Check out the Task forces guide before deciding how to go forward. ww2censor 03:20, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Having read the Task forces guide for the first time and looked at the scope of some of the existing task forces, even a 40 article task force would be overkill. Why do you think you cannot work within the existing project? Cheers ww2censor 03:28, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Motorcycle clubs 

message: The full fairing article looks to me like it really should be a section of the main article fairing.  In addition, the latter article doesn't mention motorcycles, even though it is linked as the "main" article from a section of Motorcycle!  I'd like to merge the two articles into fairing.  Any thoughts on this?  Brianhe 05:16, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I was about to propose the same thing when I discovered your comments. I completely agree. At this point, these could all be in one nice article. -AndrewDressel 14:40, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

text: I quite agree. I noticed this duplication before when I wrote Fairing (disambiguation), but I let it slip my mind. Now that it's been brought back to the front of my mind, I quite agree that all three articles should be merged together at Fairing. I realize that Motorcycle fairing is quite new, but I don't believe it ought to be a separate article. If it is kept as one, Full fairing should be merged there. — Gavia immer (talk) 15:13, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

text: I don't see how they are totally different things. Besides common function, they achieve it in common ways, and are often constructed with common materials. -AndrewDressel 17:40, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This technical term describes a kind of vehicle. It has nothing to do with airplanes. It sounds like merging windmill with wind. Full fairing information adds zero value to the fairing page. Like hamster wheel and steering wheel. A kind of bike is not a kind of fairing. Apples and oranges IMHO.(84.104.135.195 (talk) 01:54, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, if that is so, please supply us with some sources per WP:V. Thanks ww2censor (talk) 02:14, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

text: I support Cheesy Mike's proposal for 4 articles. Brianhe (talk) 05:51, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree with this split, certainly more logical than the current Fairing and Full Fairing, might as well have half fairing and handlebar fairing as a logical developments down that route. Fairing is also used in nautical circles as well, see Mighty Antar (talk) 15:44, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have to agree with Cheesy Mike's proposal for four articles and a disambiguation page. Perhaps even the spacecraft section should be separate as well. I always consider the best way to serve Wikipedia readers in these sorts of matters. People looking for information on fairings will not be seeking info on all types of fairings, but one specific application - aircraft, motorcycle, rocket, etc. - Ahunt (talk) 11:56, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I gave the reorg a try today. I think I have it mostly right. We'll see if the bicycle or aircraft folks complain. -AndrewDressel (talk) 16:46, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well done Andrew. Looks good. Did you check the "What links here" links? Thanks ww2censor (talk) 16:52, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that was a good move, I take part in both projects (Motorcycles/Aviation) and can't see a problem. I might mention what is going on in the other project, cheers Nimbus227 (talk) 17:19, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Superb, I fixed one link to a Ducati on the bicycle redirect, but couldn't find any other issues. I think Andrew deserves a box of Cornish fairings for his hard work. Mighty Antar (talk) 19:21, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Fairing]] vs [[Full fairing]]

message: *Absolutely no merge. To merge motorcycles and aircraft and aerospace is very bad idea. Fairings in these industries are totally different things, albeit with common function. It is like merging Hamster wheel and Steering wheel into Wheel. Wikipedia is not paper and different things if sufficiently notable completely deserve separate articles.  `'Míkka 16:34, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see how they are totally different things. Besides common function, they achieve it in common ways, and are often constructed with common materials. -AndrewDressel 17:40, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This technical term describes a kind of vehicle. It has nothing to do with airplanes. It sounds like merging windmill with wind. Full fairing information adds zero value to the fairing page. Like hamster wheel and steering wheel. A kind of bike is not a kind of fairing. Apples and oranges IMHO.(84.104.135.195 (talk) 01:54, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, if that is so, please supply us with some sources per WP:V. Thanks ww2censor (talk) 02:14, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

text: I support Cheesy Mike's proposal for 4 articles. Brianhe (talk) 05:51, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree with this split, certainly more logical than the current Fairing and Full Fairing, might as well have half fairing and handlebar fairing as a logical developments down that route. Fairing is also used in nautical circles as well, see Mighty Antar (talk) 15:44, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have to agree with Cheesy Mike's proposal for four articles and a disambiguation page. Perhaps even the spacecraft section should be separate as well. I always consider the best way to serve Wikipedia readers in these sorts of matters. People looking for information on fairings will not be seeking info on all types of fairings, but one specific application - aircraft, motorcycle, rocket, etc. - Ahunt (talk) 11:56, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I gave the reorg a try today. I think I have it mostly right. We'll see if the bicycle or aircraft folks complain. -AndrewDressel (talk) 16:46, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well done Andrew. Looks good. Did you check the "What links here" links? Thanks ww2censor (talk) 16:52, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that was a good move, I take part in both projects (Motorcycles/Aviation) and can't see a problem. I might mention what is going on in the other project, cheers Nimbus227 (talk) 17:19, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Superb, I fixed one link to a Ducati on the bicycle redirect, but couldn't find any other issues. I think Andrew deserves a box of Cornish fairings for his hard work. Mighty Antar (talk) 19:21, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge proposal 

message: The following userbox can be used by anyone who is interested:
Gr0ff 20:45, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Userbox, if you're interested

message: Hoi guys. I thought you would like me informing you of a recent move of about 400 classic motor cycles related images to Commons. They have not been exactly categorised as yet, but you can find them as the uploads of commons:User:SieBot in this list. I hope you can find a way to put them to good use. If you want to thank an original uploader: :nl:User:Piero. Cheers! Siebrand 15:14, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  About 400 images copied to Commons from nl.wikipedia 

message: In browsing for some source material, I noted that the final bit of the Hildebrand & Wolfmuller stub [] indicates that Wolfmuller was the inventor and Hildebrand was the financier.  However, Hought and Setright in their A History of the World's Motorcycles (New York: Harper & Row, 1966, pp 13-14) write that the Hildebrand brothers were the true innovators, and that they shared credit with their assistant Alois Wolfmuller.  I don't feel qualified to edit it, since I'm only an undergrad history major and I haven't done any original research in this area, but I wanted to bring it to the attention of someone hopefully better-informed than myself.  Thanks, and keep up the great work! -j.m., Hanover IN 192.200.128.45 04:43, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Question about Hildebrand & Wolfmuller Stub

message: WP:Protect policy allows blocking by anon users (semi-protection) in case of persistent vandalism.  This sounds like a great thing for Motorcycle.  A day rarely goes by when it doesn't get some mindless child's twiddling and I'm tired of dealing with it.  Anybody else think so? -- Brianhe 07:01, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think if it cuts down on the idiots then go for it. Not really a hell of a lot of new content that needs to be pushed into a standard topic article that we need to let anonymous IPs edit it. NathanLee 16:12, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: BTW I'd prefer an indefinite block, but they don't seem to grant these very often. We might have to settle for medium duration blocks that get renewed. Brianhe 22:50, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The vandalism is really not that bad that it needs protection. on average it seems like it gets one or two vandals every few days, but there are enough people who watch Motorcycle to keep it in check and reverted, but if you can convince an admin to semi-protect it would be good however I doubt you will get it for more than a few days at most. Cheers ww2censor 23:33, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Protection against vandalism

message: Hey guys,
just wondering what's the preferred way to put in the specs for motorcycles. Because I've come across pages with same info (sort of) duplicated from the infobox and into a table in a specification section (which is a pain in the arse doing both). Any examples of good bike model pages that I should look at? 
It's a bit tricky to cater for multiple year/ranges for models that the spec changes I think.. NathanLee 16:51, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My preference would be to show the spec of the current retail model in the infobox then, if relevant, describe incremental model changes since launch in the body of the article. Then again, where there is a major revision I also like a table showing side-by-side comparison e.g. Suzuki Hayabusa. --Cheesy Mike 17:02, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I like Mike's proposal.  The infobox should be concise in any event. - Brianhe 15:34, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proper way to put in specifications for motorcycles 

message: Well it took me a while but I found the motorcycle project. Fantastic stuff in here, I have created a few articles and helped in the Aviation project but it seems much friendlier in here.
The Suzuki Hayabusa is a good example article, I hope to write one on the RD500LC which is missing (amongst others) from the Yamaha list. Stay right side up. Nimbus227 02:28, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Hello!

message: This article has been nominated for GA review for a couple of weeks.  Can someone jump in and do the review? Cheers! Mmoyer 03:38, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Motorcycle club]] needs GA review 

message: I added sections for Good Articles and Good Article Nominees.  This project has zero featured articles, 1 good article, and 1 GA nominee, yet there are hundreds of articles in the project.  How about a concerted focus on improving these articles and getting more to GA?  Someone could start by doing the review on Motorcycle club (hint, hint). Mmoyer 18:16, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Articles 

message: I added a List of motocross World Championship results to go along with the similar List of Grand Prix motorcycle racing World Champions. I need help filling in some results from the 1990s. Thanks.Orsoni (talk) 04:52, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of motocross world champions 

message: The portal seems abandoned. I updated and added some info, my interest is road racing so that was all I knew to add, the portal still remains in bad shape. Could someone add a link to the portal in the Motorcycling and Motorcycle racing templates. Hopefully this will help more people to become aware of the portal and contribute to it. Chris Ssk (talk) 14:39, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This portal has been listed for more than a year, with no edits, as still under construction, so unless you are willing to adopt the portal, bring it out of the construction stage and put it online by updating it, I see no advantage in linking to anything else at this time. It needs quite a bit of work to make it current and fresh. Let us know when there is something current that will be updated and we will happily link. ww2censor (talk) 17:04, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Related to this portal, it looks distinctly like the Wikipedia:WikiProject Grand Prix motorcycle racing also seems to be dormant. ww2censor (talk) 17:10, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I updated the portal and it no longer has any redlinks so it can be moved from the under construction category, however it only contains info about motorcycle circuit racing. if the portal can be renamed to only cover motorcycle circuit racing I will be happy to adopt it otherwise I will need help. Chris Ssk (talk) 22:49, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I added a portal link to the Motorcycle racing template but not to the other one because this is a rather focused portal and does not cover all of motorcycling. If it was a motorcycling portal it would be fine. Hope you don't mind. The portal link needs a little tweaking because I don't like the 3 lines of text, it should be 2 lines. Your renaming suggestion would only make this even narrower so I would not support that. If anything it should be expanded rather than narrowed. Maybe some other editors will step up and add some other motorcycling sport interest to cover more ground, such as, Supermoto, Motocross, Enduro, Trials, etc. Each section should probably have an archive and a suggestion link. I will see if I can add some more sections for you. Rather than a "Selected article" I would suggest having a "selected biography" as well as a "selected motorcycle" (could be specific bike or manufacturer) or possibly "bike of the month". Cheers and thanks for taking this on. ww2censor (talk) 05:46, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, I will try and do the changes you suggested Chris Ssk (talk) 06:43, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Portal:Motorcycle_racing]] 

message: Kawasaki links in motorcycle articles point to Kawasaki Heavy Industries but that is not right because KHI has no info on Kawasaki motorcycles. Kawasaki motorcycles is the article on motorcycles but its just a stub with no info. I think a Kawasaki Motors article needs to be created that will cover all aspects of Kawasaki Motors (motorcycles, ATVs, watercrafts etc...) similar to how Yamaha Motor Company covers all that for YamahaChris Ssk (talk) 11:04, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kawasaki 

message: The Template:Infobox Motorcycle has a parameter "similar" which is used in many bike articles e.g. BMW R1200RT, Suzuki Hayabusa. I believe that the parameter is useful because it allows the article reader to find out about other bikes similar to the article subject. The parameter was recently deleted with the reason given as consistency with the automotive infobox. However, I believe that there should be discussion and consensus within the motorcycle wikiproject on whether this parameter is removed. For the moment, until consensus on what to do is reached, I have restored the parameter. My vote is to keep the parameter. --Cheesy Mike (talk) 18:01, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks useful to me, though not always used by editors. I vote to keep. ww2censor (talk) 19:12, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Understood, but I haven't seen the same edit wars on any motorcycle articles and to date I haven't seen a "similar bike" claim that I have disputed. Maybe it's because we bikers are much nicer people and less pedantic than the car-anoraks.--Cheesy Mike (talk) 10:08, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Haha. That may be true. If we keep it, I'd like to see definition brought to it in the documentation I've started for the template under the "meaning" section. I actually need help defining all of the different parameters in the documentation. Roguegeek (talk) 10:13, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: "Similar" parameter in Infobox Motorcycle

message: I have just found these three articles that are be similar to each other below
*Stunt riding
*Squid (motorcycle)
*Stunters
Trouble is how do I merge them together, can anybody provide a suggestion or shall I leave it as it is. Willirennen (talk) 01:02, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:MERGE has the answers you're looking for. Is this thing working? (talk) 01:16, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think that the squid article belongs with the other two, however I think you are right to merge the stunt articles. --Cheesy Mike (talk) 08:43, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Cheesy Mike. ww2censor (talk) 17:09, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Perhaps it would be best to name the new merged article should be names Motorcycle stunt riding though the current Stunt riding does not mention any of the alternate types that you mention. tvm ww2censor (talk) 01:29, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge issues 

message: Opinions welcomed on Talk:'Long Way' series whether this new article is valid/makes sense, thanks -- John (Daytona2 · talk · contribs) 13:47, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Although I don't see why not, I would love the idea of a navigational template (see WP:NAV) to link to all other articles linked to the series, so that it would be easier for people to navigate their way through a series of pages, which will list not just the three shows, also Charlie and Ewan, plus the bikes, vehicle and crew members. Willirennen (talk) 16:02, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds good to me - do it ! -- John (Daytona2 · talk · contribs) 16:09, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  New article [['Long Way' series]] 

message: The Keith Code article I started as a stub has been nominated for deletion as non-notable biography.  Since it's part of this WikiProject, I thought I'd announce it here so people can help establish notability.  Brianhe (talk) 17:57, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the article is safe now, thanks to those who contributed to it. Brianhe (talk) 05:56, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Keith Code up for deletion