Talk:Hardline (subculture)

message: The article alleges that "Hardline" subculture is "Crypto-fascist." At the risk of sounding ignorant of the latest politico-cultural-anthropological-newspeak-universitybabble, is this even a term? Did a contributor to this article invent it? Shouldn't some sort of link to the definition of this neologistic monstrosity be provided?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.153.242.91 (talk) 15:11, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Crypto-what?

message: The previous article bordered on stub status and suffered from some language difficulties.  I'm intimately familiar with Hardline's history so I took the liberty of doing some serious revisions.
Some of the history is revisionism.   I was there in the very beginning and most of the Hardline founders were agnostic, nonreligous or atheist.  It had nothing to do with "abrahamic" religion.  The band Raid had as much to do with formulating the Hardline movement as the record label owner, Sean.  The difference is Raid became disenchanted with the Hardline movement early on and the record label continued on. Before Vegan Reich, Statement and Raid were released, Hardline was only a record label idea, not a movment.  By the time the records were released, we created a movement. That movement was created in Memphis, not Laguna Beach.  Later Hardline morphed into a quasi-Islamic scene. Intially, it was simply hardcore vegan straight edge and not anti sex, cursing, etc...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.111.45.125 (talk) 20:04, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Doing some serious revisions

message: I think the article doesn't state clear enough that vegan straight edge and hardline were two completely separated evolutions. When reading this article, one might think that Hardline developed Straight Edge towards veganism, and that a vegan straight-edger is a hardliner. This is absolutely not the case: veganism became a part of straight edge for many people since the mid-eighties, and still today many straight-edgers are vegan. Those people have nothing to do with hardline, and most of them even actively oppose hardline.
The article should focus more on the basic difference between the two: straight edge is a philosophy that can be fit into many very different political ideas, while hardline is a full blown ideology that grew out of it and has aspects of eco-fascism, totalitarianism (see the 'central comittee'), abrahamic religion and activism.
Also, I think the article should mention the fact that hardline has given the straight edge philosophy a very bad reputation: "Vanguard" is often cited as a 'straight edge magazine' in articles that critically analyze right-wing tendencies within veganism. Cases of violence coming from groups of hardliners are almost always called ´ straight edge violence'; of course this violence goes back to an intolerant interpretation of straight edge and thus is related to it, but many sources fail to differentiate between straight edge and hardline.
Just for the record, I am personally neither 'straight edge' nor 'hardline'. 
PS: I also think this article should not be deleted as it is highly informative and as far as I know not too far from the truth.82.114.160.32 (talk) 13:20, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Straight Edge, Hardline and Veganism

message: Could someone add detail to the point of proving this exists? The hardline I know of is nothing like this. Or are hardcore and hardline different?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Skrayl (talk • contribs) 02:42, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Uh, what?

message: "The Hardline philosophy forbids its adherents from smoking or chewing any form of tobacco, drinking alcoholic beverages, and using illicit drugs or modern medicines, cursing, and consuming meat/animal products. In addition, Hardliners are expected to follow a strict dietary regimen."
Does this need to be included? I dont think that cursing was ever an issue... unless its become part of the platform since hardline's "islamization".
AwesomeCrom 01:27, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  cursing? 

message: I'm moving this article from its current title (Hard-line) to Hardline. As far as I know, hardline is a non-hyphenated word, and most literature about the hardline movement I've read tends to omit the hyphen. Even the text of the article itself doesn't use the hyphen. Ecto 01:21, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hard-line vs. Hardline 

message: The History section rambles. Anyone care to edit?
--poopsix 16:58, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  History Section 

message: Vanguard was the official magazine of the Hardline movement. As the movement ebbed and flowed, the magazine was sporadically published before releasing a final issue in the late 1990's, in which the HCC (Hardline Central Committee) announced that Hardline, as an organized movement, was being disbanded.  --this was the text of an article that was deleted.  It this sourceable? Puddytang 01:39, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  HCC? 

message: This article is not within the scope of Wiki Project Religion, because Hardline is not a religion. No debate necessary.
:I'd be inclined to agree with whoever wrote the above statement. Any opposition to removing the project religion box? Freikorp (talk) 05:31, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: We can't; only a project member can. A project can tag whatever articles they feel that are within their scope. --Guerillero | My Talk 05:34, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Can't imagine why they would have thought it was within their scope. Oh well, you learn something new every day. :) Freikorp (talk) 05:57, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Not a religion

message: In the fourth paragraph of the origin section, it said that Vegan Reich regrouped briefly in 1699. Now, I don't know too much about that, but I'd say that's a typo and meant to be 1999? Can anybody who does know fix that up please?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Geriatric.cheeseman (talk • contribs) 09:07, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  1699 

message: I must admit I'm too old to know about such subcultural things, but why the deletion tag?  I came across this article during some research of my own, and I found it useful and informative, and it linked in with other stuff about straight edge which I found by googling.  So why delete it? Gwaka Lumpa (talk) 15:47, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Tagged for deletion - why?

message: "At its height, the hardline movement had approximately ten chapters, with one or two people involved in the US, Europe, South America, and Australia."
So there were like twenty people involved in this at its height? That can't be right, can it?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.228.40.129 (talk) 04:40, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: How many people were involved in this?

message: How can hardline be something that strifes for Human Rights when they think homosexuality is wrong? That's a ridiculous stand.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.136.37.231 (talk) 12:54, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah I can't understand that for the life of me either, it was a double-standard that in my opinion cost hard-line countless potential followers. Freikorp (talk) 03:24, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Just a question

message: Is this really a notable subculture? Currently, out of the bands listed in the article as being part of it, only two of them actually have articles (Raid (band) and Birthright (band)) and at least one of those is of dubious notability itself. I did a search for reliable sources, and while there is some coverage in serious books, it's a bit thin on the ground. If anyone can find any really good sources on the topic, they should be added to the article. Otherwise, perhaps we should consider merging this article into the one on straight edge? Robofish (talk) 01:08, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Wood, Robert T. (2006). Straight Edge Youth: The Complexity and Contradictions of a Subculture.. Syracuse, NY: Syracuse University Press. has a section on hardline. It was one of the offshoots of 1990s straight edge that thankfully died. Earth Crisis is one of the better known straight edge bands. --Guerillero | My Talk 04:21, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notability? 

message: This page needs to be merged with Straight Edge. Probably will be. Its the same thing. With a few different "rules". Also a Continuation of the chronological order of the evolution of straight edge CombatMarshmallow (talk) 16:47, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge