Talk:Himno Nacional Mexicano

message: Mexican National Anthem or National Anthem of Mexico? --Scalif 08:13, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Note

message: Shouldn't this be at National Anthem of Mexico or Mexican National Anthem or something like that? I doubt many users search for it under this name... Titoxd(?!? - help us) 01:19, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: National Anthems change all of the time, but I am going to make all redirects as much as possible. Zach (Smack Back) Fair use policy  01:35, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: According to http://david.national-anthems.net/mx.htm, there has been some attempts to have other songs become national anthems, so having this article at the generic "National Anthem of Mexico" title will probably not be good. The United States anthem page is at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star-Spangled_Banner, it's title, and Canada's anthem page is at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O_Canada. Other nations, such as New Zealand, the United Kingdom, and Australia, to name a few, have their national anthem articles at their song titles (some are offcial, some are not), and when I wrote about the Belarusian anthem, I wrote it at the title of it's song (unofficial) at My Belarusy. Yes, I should have asked before I moved, but I still believe that this article should be at Mexicanos, al grito de guerra and the other pages should redirect to it. Zach (Smack Back) Fair use policy  05:22, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name 

message: I removed the note that read: 
In the chorus, "centros la tierra" does not refer to the Earth's core, but to various important points around the globe at the time (e.g. cities, military bases, etc.). Also, Patria is a female noun in Spanish; in English it is translated as "Fatherland" (here it is translated as Motherland, because in Mexico the custom is to say "Madre Patria"). 
First of all, the lyrics do refer to the core of the earth, which would, poetically and presumably, tremble at the roar of the cannon. Secondly, it doesn't matter that in Spanish we would say "Madre Patria" when we are translating it to English. In English the common term is Fatherland, and thus the one that should be used in the translation.
--Agurza 13:52, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Motherland is also used too on some occasions, but if you think that your translation is right, go ahead and use it, I will not revert. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) Fair use policy  14:49, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

text: I would vote for motherland. Both terms are in the dictionary (and the OED has older and more abundant examples for motherland). Either could be used in principle, but I think it is more appropriate to keep the gender used in the original. This can help the reader learn something about the culture! Also, people on the web seem to use motherland more often than fatherland: http://googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=fatherland&word2=motherland (this is in general, not in the context of the Mexican anthem) Itub 16:51, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

text: The new translation for "Ciña ¡oh Patria! tus sienes de oliva/de la paz el arcángel divino" is wrong. In the original, the verb ceñir is conjugated in the third person, which means that the divine archangel is the subject who is wreathing the fatherland/motherland. Your translation makes it seem like the fatherland is "taking" the olive and wreathing itself... Itub 16:51, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Translation of the lyrics

message: What does this mean, exactly? Whether or not the Germans or the Americans ever held a copyright for this anthem, it should be clear that by now there can be no copyright, because it would have expired already. At least until the U.S. congress decides to extend the copyright terms to life of author + 500 years, with retroactive effect. ;-) Itub 16:13, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Itub, while it mostly is a urban legend now, I found . This is the BMI Repertoire, the same one cited in the stories I have with the links. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) Fair use policy  21:37, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I found an interesting article on this topic in a Mexican newspaper (in Spanish): , . Itub 22:59, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "The copyright situation has not yet been resolved"? 

message: A few translation problems I see:
*"Y retiemble en sus centros la tierra" --> "And let the earth centers tremble"
**"Earth centers" in English doesn't work; better would be "And let the center of the earth tremble".
***Or, more poetically, "And let the depths of the earth tremble". —Spangineer[es] (háblame) 23:45, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with the suggested changes. But I feel pretty sure that "de honor" refers to "recuerdo", not to "ellos". Same with "de gloria" That is, "un recuerdo para ellos de honor" = "un recuerdo de honor para ellos". Itub 22:34, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you're right, since that would be consistent with the other two lines, but I wanted to make sure that I was reading it properly. —Spangineer[es] (háblame) 23:45, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation problems 

message: The tittle of the Himno Nacional Mexicano is Himno Nacional Mexicano, not Mexicanos al grito de guerra. When Francisco Gónzalez Bocanegra wrote this lyrics, called his composition "Volemos al combate, a la venganza, Y el que niegue su pecho a la esperanza, Hunda en el polvo la cobarde frente". The tittle of music is Dios y Libertad. Sorry, I don't speak english.  Sorry, I don't speak english.
:It's ok. Yes, I do know that this is not the official title of the anthem, and I made cleae that the legal title is Himno Nacional Mexicano, but this is the "unofficial and informal." When I wrote national anthem articles, they are always at their informal titles, and I always cite My Belarusy as an example. I am thinking about putting this up for requested moves, if yall are ok with that. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 02:02, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: On the second note; I already have Dios y Libertad mentioned, but not the title for the words. Thank you. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 02:04, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  HImno Nacional Mexicano 

message: I am a Mexican from Mexico DF, and I know a lot of my anthem, both are wrong, and I am going to explain 
*First the thruly name of the natonal Anthem Of the United states of Mexico is Himno Nacional Mexicano and I agree to change the name, the government of Mexico has deecreted so many years that is Himno Nacional Mexicano 
*Second: Y retiemble en sus centros la Tierra, it referes to caves not the core, centros is an ancient word for caves
**Ok, i'll move it now. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 02:24, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As a native speaker of Spanish I'd like to see the dictionary that states that centro is an "ancient word for cave". -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ 17:44, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Thruth name

message: The article on Balbina Steffenone and this link indicate that Balbina Steffenone sang the innaugural performance, but the current version of this article says otherwise (old versions apparently didn't). Since this is way outside my area of expertise I thought I'd point this out here rather than make a clueless change to the article. Thanks. --W.marsh 17:13, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The sources that I used to state who performed the anthem for the first time was coming from the Mexican Government itself; the SRE and the Mexican Embassy in the Former Yugoslavia. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 18:39, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  question about a fact in the article 

message: I remember when I saw the World Cup games in June 2006, the Mexican players did this "salute" when they were singing the anthem. The put their hands, with the back of the hand facing upward, on the left side of the chest (I might have the sides mixed up). Is there a name for this? Arbiteroftruth 06:17, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Right hand, left side of chest. It's the "civil salute", IIRC. Titoxd(?!?) 06:18, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The full name is "El Saludo Civil de la Bandera Nacional" ("The Civil Salute to the National Flag"). You can read about it at Flag_of_Mexico#Flag_protocol. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 10:27, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Salute When Singing the Anthem? 

message: In Spanish, the verse:
"Y retiemble en sus centros la tierra" (literally "And may tremble at its centers the Earth")
The word "centros" (centers) doesn't refer to the center of the Earth. As you may notice, the word is in plural, not in singular. The earth only have one center (core).
The verse refers to the various important centers of the world, meaning military centers, cities, monuments, etc. I read this in a book called "Capítulos Olvidados de la Historia de México" (Forgotten Chapters of the History of Mexico) published by the Reader's Digest, where a clear description of the antique spanish language of the anthem is provided. However, I will look for an online source in order to clarify this.
I also noticed that several other persons pointed at this translation problem in the discussions above. AlexCovarrubias ( Let's talk! ) 20:09, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a very good point. However, this is not the first time I hear about "centros" refering to the world's important places. It is just a matter of finding sources to clarify this matter, because as I said, I read about this. AlexCovarrubias ( Let's talk! ) 22:44, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Problem with the translation of one verse 

message: Saw this was on the front page.  Did not see, at least conspicuously, a link anywhere to the full ten verses that its author wrote, much less to an Englished version of the full poem.  This arouses curiosity as to what the rest of the story was about. - Smerdis of Tlön 05:40, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Go to the bottom of the page to see the Wikisource link. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 07:16, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The rest of the poem? 

message: Someone vandalized this page.  I think there is a formal way to revert to a prior version but I couldn't quickly figure it out.  I just copied and pasted from the last good version.  Sorry if I didn't follow the right protocol.
:See Help:Reverting. Oysterguitarist 20:01, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalized 

message: Um, the article translates this as "Mexicans at the cry of war", but I think it's "Mexicans TO the cry of war". Any thoughts? - Eric (talk) 17:50, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep, as far as I know, it should be "Mexicans to the cry of war". Any other thoughts? - E.M.  talk ● contribs 06:00, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm Mexican and I've always found it ambiguous. It depends on whether you read the first line together with the second one, or separately. That is, something like "Mexicans! When the cry of war comes, you should get ready your steel and your horses" versus "Mexicans! Come to the cry of war! Get ready your steel and your horses!". --Itub (talk) 11:43, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

text: I think Spanish speakers will find the meaning more obvious if you rearrange Bocanegra's poetry into a more modern-usage syntax order: "Mexicanos, aprestad el acero y el bridón al grito de guerra." Likewise, the first stanza could be read: "Oh Patria! El arcángel divino de la paz ciña tus cienes de oliva." Kwarizmi (talk) 14:27, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mexicanos, al grito de guerra 

message: This part: 
I read also the [news and I have look throughout the net to find confirmation. I dont find any other support to this info.
The question is: could a Japanese police ask a Colombian to sing the National Anthem of Mexico? I did not know that the National Anthem of Mexico was so popular in Japan. Maybe the Japanese are learning a lot Mexican Spanish, no? or maybe the Mexican government has invested a lot in translate the National Anthem in Japanese and make it learn over there, no? or maybe that is only a ridiculous spam. --Albeiror24 (talk) 05:02, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Or maybe it has to do with the Japanese government thinking (correctly) that people who say that they are Mexican will know the Mexican national anthem. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 07:28, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The real question is: how is this trivial factoid relevant to an encyclopedia article about the national anthem of Mexico? --Itub (talk) 11:39, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Because it shows that the anthem is being used as one way to prove citizenship? The Mexican government does this as well. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 20:21, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Colombians signing the National Anthem of Mexico in Japan (????) 

message: In the photograph showing mexicans listening the national anthem at a football game, they are in the position of flag salute and this is incorrect, the Law is clear that the national anthem have to be listen in stand up position. The flag salute position only uses when the flag is arising or lowering. That is a common error that began probably 15 years ago in some sports events maybe by the influence of the U.S. tradition of make the flag salute during the listen of their own anthem. Thanks  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jormymex (talk • contribs) 17:53, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  correct way to listen the anthem 

message: Wouldn't "Himno Nacional Mexicano" be translated into "Mexican National Anthem" in English? Shouldn't "National Anthem of Mexico" be translated as "Himno Nacional de Mexico", as "Estados Unidos Mexicanos" is translated into "United Mexican States"? Illegitimate Barrister (talk) 03:33, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: English translation of name?

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I have just added archive links to  on Himno Nacional Mexicano. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120222114507/http://www.mexican-embassy.org.rs/MexicanSignsHimno.html to http://www.mexican-embassy.org.rs/MexicanSignsHimno.html
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080220215640/http://www.sep.gob.mx:80/wb2/sep/sep_Ley_Federal_del_Derecho_de_Autor to http://www.sep.gob.mx/wb2/sep/sep_Ley_Federal_del_Derecho_de_Autor
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: (See also the previous discussion from 7 years ago, #On translating patria)
I've reverted an edit which changed the translation of Spanish  from "fatherland" to "motherland", and I'd like to get consensus for the proper translation here.
The source (which is dead, but archived here) gives the translation as simply "country", but I think that is not exactly accurate nor does it reflect the patriotic theme of the song. Spanish for country is  - simply referring to a country, but  refers more specifically to the country of one's birth, which in English is fatherland. On the other hand, motherland is more commonly used to refer to the parent nation of an imperial colony, which I think is far away from the Spanish usage here. Literally speaking, using "motherland" would make this an ode to Spain, and I doubt that's the intent.
The IP editor pointed out that official celebrations use "madre patria" which I think is closer to "mother country" (not, for example, "mother fatherland") but I don't think that helps shed light on the translation.  is a feminine noun in the gendered languages, so rendering it as "padre patria" would simply be nonsense. But that also doesn't help with a thematic translation.
As a compromise, I suggest that the translation of  be changed either to "homeland" (which is a synonym of fatherland but does not suggest a gender) or to "mother country" (which is more of a brick-to-the-face direct translation, but may more accurately reflect the theme of the song). Thoughts? Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 15:39, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  On translating patria (again) 

message: Substituted at 17:56, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The current translation translates this in the indicative "And the Earth trembles to it's core", but it is subjunctive. Would "may the Earth tremble..." or "let the Earth tremble..." or some more poetic translation more appropriately express the sense that this is a wished for outcome after Mexicans rise up than a co-occurring event? Toddobryan (talk) 14:41, 16 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Retiemble translation