Talk:Tai chi/Archive 2

message: I'm a student of the Li Family Style (in the UK and other countries).  Alot of information is available on www.leefamilystyle.com.  I think it at least deserves a mention somewhere, but I'm not going to just edit free-range.  Can I have feedback? --Kyle Dantarin 05:31, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)
:Greetings. I have put the link in the external links section. I know the style is increasingly popular in Europe, the problem we would have with fitting them in the main article would be that we would have to mention that there doesn't seem to be a clear T'ai Chi provenance provided on the site from the Ch'en family to the Lee family with the info we have now. On the Lee family site they claim a 3,000 year history of 8 sections of brocade, but no mention is made of who they learned T'ai Chi Ch'uan from or where. Yours is a notable enough group, and could certainly have its own article, but the subject of where the Lee's T'ai Chi came from, its history and development, will have to be discussed in an NPOV fashion. Any info in aid of that you could provide would be helpful. Fire Star 15:40, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

message: The following is a bit POV, but if cleaned up will be more appropriate at the Yang style T'ai Chi Ch'uan page:
"Tchoung Ta-tchen formulated the Dual System of the Older form of Yang style that is traced directly to Yang Chien-hou.  Tchoung's system is a modern system based on the older version of Yang Style. Other older forms of Yang style were taught, such as the form taught by Kuo Lien Ying in San Francisco.
Modern "Orthodox" Yang style variations are traced to Yang Cheng-fu. While their is considerable debate on the what is considered real, Fu Zhogwen and Yang Zhendo taught two versions Cheng-fu's form. Other Significant students of Yang Cheng-fu modified his form to their own arts, these masters include Tung Ying-chieh, Cheng Man-ch'ing, Chen Wei-ming, etc.
According to Gu Liuxin Yang Cheng-fu modified the older Yang style by taking out more difficult movements and fast kicks. Older forms such as Tchoung's contain slow and fast strikes and kicks as well as the silk reeling energy often seen in the Older Ch'en forms.  Kuo Lien Ying's form contained jump kicks and fast kicks and strikes as well."
Fire Star 19:15, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah well, there you go. The "claims of" bit was put in over a year ago by a drive-by editor also making claims of NPOV. The health benefits have been pretty well established in more and more Western medical studies, though, so I see no reason myself to put that language back in. Fire Star 01:57, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Info on a particular style

message: I think that the best way to address the World T'ai Chi website issue is to actually write a Wikipedia article about the event itself at World Tai Chi and Qigong Day. I am convinced it is a notable enough subject to justify that. We could recount the history of the event, list the rationale for it, level of participation and local govt. cooperation, etc. in the article. We would be justified in having a prominent link to the World T'ai Chi day in its own article and also have the article linked to the main Tai Chi Chuan article. The article itself doesn't have to be very long, and we can always expand it later. --Fire Star 23:10, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[World Tai Chi and Qigong Day]] 

message: I have edited the T'ai Chi page to include some vital information to everyone which has somehow been omitted.
T'ai Chi is firmly based on Taoist philosophy, ask anyone, and yet it didn't even get a mention, ridiculous.
Also it is not a physical form of exercise but is designed to develop Chi or internal energy, again no mention at all hardly.
Now I have removed all that silly lineage stuff, what an insult to any genuine Taoist and completely irrelevant to most readers, simply spam. Does anyone seriously think any of this lineage rubbish is of any interest whatsoever to anyone, as if Yang style and the Chen Village story was anything but a myth, quite absurd. Let me guess, some Yang style idiot put this nonsense up. Taoism is not about ancestor worship or lineage, that's Confucianism. I have studied T'ai Chi for almost twenty five years and I was stunned at these glaring omissions, if you revise this page please make sure you include something on these topics and do something to stop the Yang Style crowd putting their stupid lineage documents up, it's an outrage!
--Chuangzu 20:28, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, there are links to qigong, neigong, daoyin, Taoism and traditional Chinese medicine already in the article, so the additions were redundant. As well, the majority of resources state that there are 5 main family styles, and dozens of relatively minor (at least in numbers of adherents) offshoots from those.  We can report our opinions of things, but they have to be reported as opinions and only when there is a source for the opinion. To have a thing reported as a fact, the weight of independant evidence has to support it. For a well known instance, Yang style and Chen style generally disagree with each other about the origins of T'ai Chi. Do we say one is right or the other wrong? We report what both say as their opinions. T'ai chi is very popular anymore, and we should give precedence to the most attested styles first, still being general, but giving place in the links to the most common histories of lineage. If a lineage isn't well documented, that puts it further down the list for the main article. There is an article on your style, which is mostly known in the UK, and if you look at its page history you'll see I was encouraging to the editors who wrote it. That is the place for style specific philosophy discussions. --Fire Star 20:29, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  '''No mention of Taoism or Chi energy instead a load of nonsense on lineage.'''