Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Myanmar/Archive 2

message: Has anyone else noticed the change of color recently of the coat of arms used in the politics template? The chinthe used to be kind of dark blue, now they are bright blue; the scroll used to be a magenta, now it is bright red. Have the colors officially changed, or is it just a different artist from somewhere? (plus the script is now kind of grainy). Chris 06:26, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Coat of arms

message: What do you guys think of the new layout at this WikiProject? Feel free to add comments, suggestions, and advice. Thanks. --Hintha 04:28, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I like it, it's cleaner and much tidier. Chris 04:34, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Feedback on new layout 

message: I have removed it, because it is no clear difference netween city and town in Myanmar- TheNeon 22:17, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you, I had tried to merge the two a month ago, your way was more effective. ;) Chris 04:41, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[:Category:Towns in Myanmar]] 

message: I have requested the Wikipedia Protection of this page due to excessive reverts from opposition groups and their supporters.  I am truly amazed that I seems to be the only one from this project who have been trying to fix the article in a more neutral tone.  There was no revert nor fix from Project facilitator or other members of project, it seems everyone is turning blind eye to the vandalisim on this page so long as it is "pro-opposition".  So much for not having political agendas!! Okkar 16:21, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  And I suppose you are very neutral with your persistent abuse in adding NLD flag to Myanmar article... is that because no one would bother reading NLD article? or does it not have it's own article.  Spelling mistakes and grammatical errors are trivial, but you werent correcting either of those, infact, you are plastering the article with NCGUB propaganda dialogues.  It is plain to see what you are trying to do.  Okkar 20:53, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is perfectly appropriate to include the emblem of the National League of Democracy in an article that mentions that political party. Your insistence in trying to falsely portray that as "abuse" or "vandalism" reveals your own bias. SimonBillenness 21:17, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Wikipedia is not a PR website for NCGUB or NLD and should not be used as such.  Please adhere to Wikipedia's policies or you will be reported. Okkar 09:10, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As I stated previously, it is perfectly appropriate to include the emblem of the National League of Democracy in an article that cites that political party. If you report that, any reasonable person would rule against you.SimonBillenness 18:36, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I am not disputing the inclusion of NLD in article, however, it is wholy inappropiate to include the "FLAG" of NLD in the article as it serves no purpose.  If you wish, it would be more appropiate to include the flag in NLD's own article.  No other countries article include the flag of oppositions, if that has to be perhaps we should allow the inclusion of all other opposition groups, KNU, KIO, SSA flags too 'etc.  Dont just think to promote NLD and NCGUB, please consider the wider effects it has on the country article as a whole.  You are not raising awareness, rather you are showing the world what a joke our country article has become... and it is quite astonishing to see the project facilitator and project members, who claims to be politically neutral and have no political agendas, did nothing but turned blind eye to this abuse! Okkar 19:18, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Seeing as the project facilitator and other members of this project have turned a blind eye to the abuse of User:SimonBillenness and does not object to adding NLD flag to the article even though no other countries article carry the flag of opposition parties, I assume that it is now the general consensus on this project to include each and every opposition groups flag in the article.  Therefore, I have added a few of the opposition groups flags and I will be adding more of the flags in order to be consistant with the theme. Okkar 19:50, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Enough with the blind eye nonsense-Okkar-do you think this is all we do all day? Do you not think we have jobs, families, perhaps even interests in other topics outside this one? There are over 800 articles in this topic alone, and we are a handful of contributors-and I remind you again, contributors, not content police. You make the edits you want, we make the edits we want. Chris 19:59, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  If you have time to patrol my edits and revert them, I'm sure you have time to revert the edits of others too.  Myanmar is the main country article and it is the neucleus of this project, how can anyone not noticed that there have been such changes and edits? Please step down as project facilitator if you cannot handle the workload, no one expecting you to work 24/7 and we all have jobs, families, interests in other topics outside this one, but if you are going to be project facilitator, there are some responsibilities goes along with it.  It is your responsibility to ensure that this project remained neutral, unbias and free of any political influence.  If you cannot take that responsibility, I suggest you step down as the facilitator and let someone, who can ensure that integrity of the main country article would be maintained, and that project would stay completely neutral and free from any form of influence, take your place.  Okkar 20:10, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Facilitator is not a position of responsibility, I've already explained. There is nothing for me to step down from. What you're thinking of is administrator, and we don't have one. If you want to call for elections, groovy. I won't run, I don't want that. I watch and revert your edits because you are the most contentious editor of articles. You have cut out information I have sourced and verified, and you like to pick fights. The reason no one here steps up in your defense is that the edits you make are often untenable. Your tone had softened earlier today, I had hoped you were understanding that working together means working together, but you are still slinging about vitriol. Every person on Wikipedia can make exactly the edit they intend to make, and if it is properly sourced and documented, then its wholesale removal constitutes POV on your part. You are so quick to call us all partisan, and you think we all know each other and go out for a beer or something; I wouldn't know any of them if I saw them on the street. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. That's why I watch your edit list as I do. And if you notice, I leave most of your edits alone. Settle down and learn to work with your Project mates. If you want their votes for administrator, you will have to start treating them as equals and not enemies. Chris 20:22, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I dont want to be an administrator, nor do i believe in buying votes by buttering up to anyone.  If you have been reading what I wrote, you can see I am not the type to say things just to please/appease anyone.  I made my point plain and simple, and as clear as it can be, i dont believe in beating around the bushes and if that upset people, well Cel la vie.  As for me being contentious editor of articles, I follow Wikipedia guidelines closely. The reason I follow these guides closely is because I almost get burned by that 3R rule on my first day (thanks to you), luckily enough an admin see through your mistakes and gave you dressing down instead of me.  Nevertheless, it was you who give me a lesson on how to deal with others using Wikipedia policies.  So if you think I am contentious, well, I learned that from you my master! Like the old saying, you reap what you sow.  Everything I do/say here are reaction to an action of others.  I have no reasons to be hostile towards anyone, if they werent hostile to me in the first place.  I defend myself when attacked, it's natural for anyone. As for the partisan statement, while it may not necessarily to the fact that you all go out and share a few pints together, however, it appears everyone on this project is quick to side with anything in order to appease everyone, even if it means keeping quiet and turning blind eye to things that are contradictory the goals of this project.  Okkar 20:37, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Myanmar]] 

message: Please include references/citations for the sources regarding your claims.  No references = Non verifiable claims.  Just because you wrote the article it doesnt mean it is verified.  Please adhere to Wikipedia:Verifiability. Okkar 20:15, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: All references are clearly marked at the bottom of the page, and have been there since the beginning of the article. Chris 23:32, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Tin Tun]] 

message: Hintha, you claimed not to have any political agendas in public but I see you have reverted the edits in Myanmar given "incorrect information" as a reason and added opposition leaning statements.  The information was correct since i provided the link directly to the news page.  If you can accept what Reporter San Frontier wrote as gospel, I'm sure you can accept what Reuters wrote as true fact too.  Isnt it time you admit that you do have a political agenda instead of claiming not to have any in order just to get support from others? Why do you feel the need to deny when your actions betrays you? So please, come out and say that you do have a political agenda and that you intend to paddle contents and information that suits the propaganda needs of NCGUB.  Okkar 01:39, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I hope you're able to differentiate between factual and incorrect statements. Many of the edits you made were misleading. Please see Talk:Myanmar#Removal_of_cited_information_and_ISBN_numbers for a more thorough analysis. If any of my cited edits are "opposition-leaning", provide me with clear-cut evidence, other than your typical "you're-doing-this-for-National-Coalition-Government-of-Burma" or the "you-have-political-agendas!" argument. Thanks, and good day.--Hintha 05:25, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Political Agendas 

message: Finally, the common sense has prevailed and triumphed over destructive mindset of opposition groups and their minions who are using this project as a political propaganda tool.  It is a victory over those who seek out to degrade our country by insisting to use the old colonial name of the country as the name of the project and the axe handles who colluded with foreigners with mob mentality to remove anyone who don’t support or share their politically biased views from this project by any means necessary, even if it means they have to cheat or lied.    Okkar 22:01, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Urgent action alert! Okkar, I'm sure this will be of interest to you. I was looking at the Chinese Wikipedia, and I discovered, to my no small chagrin, that it is located at 缅甸 (pronounced Miandian), rather than the correct Myanma name, "Myanmar". I suggest that you hop into action at your earliest convenience in order to correct this injustice.—Nat Krause(Talk!·What have I done?) 22:18, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe I might just do that! whats the matter, cant handle the truth so you have to throw in a little sarcasm and come up with cheap jokes? :-) like it or not, commonse sense prevailed in the end, I'm sorry if that bruised your ego! Okkar 22:28, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Actually, everybody won, we got to keep both names like our project started with, that we all agreed upon. :) Chris 22:27, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Victory 

message: I have moved the template from  to  in accordance to the settled mediation. ^demon[omg plz] 21:01, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikiproject Template 

message: I have noticed in quite a few articles on Burma/Myanmar that places and people are described as being "famous" or "renowed".   Can we temper the use of the phrase?   I think that in most cases the content speaks for itself whether the subject in question deserves the fame or renown, and more in line with keeping NPOV.   More importantly, after going through some of the articles by jumping across links, the famousness comes off as being a little bit provincial.  In the same light, we also don't describe certain places and people there as notorious or infamous.  Kanbawsa 13:40, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree.  Too many articles that are not in line with NPOV, too much political paddling.  213.165.224.166 16:42, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, Kanbawsa, I have been noticing that as I clean up the stub articles, I have been modifying it to "notable" when I can, removing it entirely when there is nothing good to go in its place, and citation-tagging when I can. I'm going through geography now, biographies come next. Chris 22:44, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Can we stop being famous? 

message: Kindly contribute to this article when you get time, and request others too.
See Wildlife of India for reference.
Thanks
Atulsnischal 13:14, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Wildlife of Myanmar]]

message: There are a lot of unsourced informations in scouting articles relating to Myanmar.  I would like to urged those "scouting fans" to source the articles with verifiable facts.  If not, they should be removed as they all read like a whole lot of "fan articles" and advertisements. Source it or Remove it! Okkar 14:26, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That is retaliation for what I placed at Tin Oo. I have sourced each article. Okkar, this time your actions are so blatant anyone can see them. Chris 17:53, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'm only doing what everyone else is doing in this project - "ensuring the integrity of the articles", just as you have done so.   Okkar 18:29, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it is not. It is retaliation. No one can make a change to one of your articles or poor edits without having their own contributions attacked. If I fact tag one thing, that is ensuring the integrity of the articles. If you seek out articles and dump fact tags all over them in inappropriate places, that is retaliation and against Wikipedia etiquette. Chris 18:34, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  This is a mere accusations.  I tagged the articles accordingly in the correct places, where citations are required.  Please remember wikipedia is not your own, you may not like other people's edits but you have to accept it if it is according to the policy.  Please dont make accusatory remarks as it can be interpret as "personal attack". Okkar 18:38, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scouting articles 

message: I believe we should adopt the following suggestion from Chris regarding Biography articles.  He stated that  - "You misunderstood. It is not enough to says "x archives", that's like saying "It's in the library, look it up". Your sentence reads like "Jackie Chan is the best actor". You can source that Jackie Chan's last movie made so much money, or that his website got so many thousands of hits in 2004, but you cannot by itself say that Jackie Chan is "beloved". What you've done is not sourcing, properly. You can say Tin Oo won this medal or had that citation, those are physically provable. The way that sentence reads is not" -  This is quite interesting and perhaps it would be a good idea to follow his advice and start editing biography articles relating to Myanmar, starting with Aung San Suu Kyi as it definately needs clearing up and it does contain statements that meet Chris's suggestions here.  Okkar 18:50, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Biography articles 

message: I would like to invite you all to participate in a discussion at this thread regarding bilateral relations between two countries. All articles related to foreign relations between countries are now under the scope of WikiProject Foreign relations, a newly created project. We hope that the discussion will result in a more clean and organized way of explaining such relationships. Thank you. Ed ¿Cómo estás? 18:11, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Bilateral relations discussion

message: Due to circumstances in my life, I need to reduce my activity in Wikipedia, and will be taking a leave of absence. I wish the Project the best of success while I am away.
Chris 22:05, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: wikibreak

message: I believe SimonBillenness seems to be misrepresenting "Fighting Peacock" as NLD "emblem".  "Peacock" represent our country's flag before we were colonised by the British, hence why ABSU flag included a peacock emblem to represent our nation's struggle to gain independance from the British.  Fighting Peacock on the other hand is the emblem of the "Student Front" (Kyaungthar Tat Oo) of ABSU.  "Student Front" represent a wing within ABSU that includes a group of students, who sworn to sacrifice their lives for the greater cause in the name of their country.  They are always at the forefront of ABSU and student lead demonstrations and they are the ones who always take the first strike from batons and galloping horses during the colonial era. It is a fact that many students have died under the flag of "Fighting Peacock" througout the history of our country.  Although, "Student Front" was officially disbanded and banned along with ABSU during BSPP era, the stories of "Student Front" with their dedication, sacrifice, courage and honour has masmerized and captivated every generation of young students. 
At the beginning of 1988 uprising, it was the students from High Schools, came out carrying "Fighting Peacock" flags along with their school banners when they marched through the streets of our cities.  The 88 generation high school students immidiately assume the position of "Student Front" during the 1988 uprising and it was them who paid the highest price.  NLD, as political party adopted the symbol of "Fighting Peacock" into their party flag after the uprising in order to honour the students of Myanmar, who were always at the forefront of the struggle for their country and those who lay down their lives in the name of "democracy" and "freedom".  Fighting Peack is not just a mere representation of courage or freedom, nor is it a mere logo on the flag of a political party, it is much more than that.  It a symbol that represents courage, honour and sacrifice of the "students" of Myanmar, it represent the history of our country's struggle from both foreign invasions and tyranny, it represent our forefathers and it represent the fighting spirit of the "students" of Myanmar.  NLD and ASSK would not be where they are today, if it wasnt for those students waving "Fighting Peacock" flags in 1988.  If you said you are for freedom and democracy, then honour those students who brought about the change, honour those students who gave up their lives so that NLD can sit and complain about how they have won 1990 election and still not in the office.  
Thanks to a mixure of political correctness and pure ignorant, we all have forgotten the fallen heroes and the spirit of "Fighting Peacock". Instead of honouring them for their sacrifices, we sat by sideline and watch people like SimonBillenness exploiting "fighting peacock" to promote NLD and NCGUB.  Is this the way their death should be honoured?  They didnt die for NLD, they died for our country and now we are repaying their deaths by letting political parties exploit the "Fighting Peacock" symbol.  It is an insult to suggest that "Fighting Peacock" represent NLD as NLD has done nothing to earn the honour and respect that goes with the symbol of "Fighting Peacock".  It belongs to the students of Myanmar. It should be clarify in the description of NLD flag, otherwise, we are effectively rewriting the history of "Fighting Peacock" and dishonouring those students who gave up their lives during the struggle. Okkar 20:28, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fighting Peacock 

message: Myanmar or Burma or Pyi Thar Yar ?
The bottom line: Any changes in any country should be done in legal ways, legal terms, legal laws. Legal means laws written, endorse and implemented by the people, for the people and of the people freely and justly. A nation that don't even had a running/using constitution is deplorable and disputable in making changes, any changes especially as important as national flag or country's name etc.
Texxexx 03:19, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  This is wikipedia, we are not interested in political views.  Perhaps you should post your comment to other pro-opposition website, it will be more appericiated there.  Okkar 09:10, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  So are you suggesting all other parties flags should be included too? like KNU, BCP, SSA? We cant have one rule for NLD and one rule for the others, right? Okkar 10:15, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

text:  All well and good sounding rhetoric but would you care to back those up with the action? perhaps you would be kind enough to start with inclusion of KNU and BCP, the two most prominent opposition groups, followed by SSA-S, SSA-N, KIA, KNPP 'etc.  Okkar 15:02, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name Game 

message: I've heavily re-edited the Economy of Myanmar page. However the footnotes do not appear at the end of the page. Would someone fix them and then refer me to the resource on the proper use and editing of footnotes.? Thank you!  SimonBillenness 06:26, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Adding Footnotes to [[Economy of Myanmar]] Page

message: Myanmar had 7 States and 7 Divisions. Although I am sure all the "major" (prominent) races or states have their own flags, I am not sure of the divisions. Divisions are widely lived by the majority race, Bamar/Burmese. On this "free flow" Encyclopedia concerning with Myanmar, not only the national flags history but also the existence of major ethnic flags and emblems should be presented for broader understanding on this country. Peacock is the national symbol of Myanmar (Bamar/Burmese) since ancient times but it is not for the ethnic races. The ethnic races have their own flags and emblems. True respect to all peoples/races of Myanmar and acknowledging the existence of their culture, beliefs and history backgrounds is a good step towards getting the full picture of Myanmar and not partial. Respecting the majority and the minority which make up the "union" fulfills the true understanding of Union of Myanmar. In a project to build more understanding of Myanmar this move will broaden the scope of knowledge from all angles, perspectives and improve the perception concerning with Myanmar. Texxexx 13:27, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Union of Myanmar States and Divisions flags 

message: I am working on edits of the following airlines
*Myanmar Airways International
*Air Bagan
*Air Mandalay
*Yangon Airways
*Air Myanmar
*Myanma Airways
In the infoboxes we provide the Burmese name for the airline. As I don't speak Burmese, could one of our Burmese speakers please check the names as being correct. Also the Burmese name for Air Mandalay is available on this website  but I am having difficulty in accessing it. Cheers. --Russavia 04:16, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Airlines 

message: Earlier today I created :Category:Democracy activists by country, along with several new subcategories thereof, including :Category:Burmese democracy activists. I've aleady placed :Aung San Suu Kyi in this category, but I'm not familiar with the other individuals who also belong there. In light of current events, I thought perhaps some of you folks might wish to lend a hand with this endeavor. Regards, Cgingold 01:49, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Category:Burmese democracy activists 

message: Following a week of discussions, the Myanmar article was moved to Burma. --Hemlock Martinis 21:22, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no proper vote or concensus based on the discussion. I have open a voting so we do this properly. Please vote at Talk:Burma#VOTE: Burma or Myanmar and provide your reasoning. Thank you. --Zack2007 12:27, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Myanmar -> Burma 

message: The Southeast Asian cinema task force was recently started as a joint project of WikiProject Films and WikiProject Southeast Asia. Editors who are writing about the Myanma/Burmese films are welcome to join the project, where they will find support for collaboration on new articles and the expansion and promotion of existing articles. — WiseKwai 11:28, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Films/Southeast Asian cinema task force|Southeast Asian cinema task force]]