Talk:Beit HaShita

message: :70.135.27.193 ,
:I suggest you sign in for the sake of discussion. Translating names from Hebrew to English is always confusing, but my source is the Israel Centeral Bureau of Statistics. Bet HaShitta is hard to find on their site since it has a population less than 1,000. Follow this link http://www.cbs.gov.il/population/localities/explanations.pdf  (sorry, in Hebrew) and that will show what the ICBS says is the spelling.  BTW - you yourself state that each source spells it differently. Steve G 02:42, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name spelling 

message: I did not "state that each source spells it differently."  I said that Kibbutz Beit Hashita's domain name (bethashita.com.il) does not match either spelling exactly, "Beit Hashita" or "Bet HaShitta."  I did go on to say that that the English content on that website (the one run by the Kibbutz) always spells it "Beit Hashita," as does the can of Olives I am holding in my hand from this place.
We are not translating names from Hebrew to English, we are transliterating words from Hebrew to English.  Neither one is particularly difficult.  There are two main ways to do the transliteration:  The historic way through Latin to English, and the more modern way.  The traditional is always inaccurate and does not apply here (ie, with "Beit Lechem" becoming "Bethlehem.")  The second approach is fairly simple as well, with the words very accurately being "Beit Hashita."
The numerous examples I have shown seem to point to the proper and more accepted spelling to be as I typed it.  I'm sorry, but I do not see how a Hebrew language Acrobat document with no English at all can be a source for the proper (much less "official") spelling of a word in English.  In fact, I believe that that document and the CBS specifically should be disqualified for an English language source.  I have performed a search of gov.il using Google for both "Beit Hashita" and "Bet HaShitta" ('"Beit Hashita" site:gov.il' and '"Bet HaShitta" site:gov.il').  "Bet HaShitta" produced 18 documents, all but one from the CBS.  All of them Hebrew language documents.  All but one Excel spreadsheets.  "Beit Hashita" produced 48 results from other departments.  Most of them English, all of them Latin alphabet.  I would suspect that there is one person in the CBS who spelling the English name incorrectly, or at the very least that "Bet HaShitta" is not the "official" spelling.  With there being many more uses of the name "Beit Hashita" than "Bet HaShitta"  I believe that the CBS is not an acceptable source for this information.
I am not wanting to get into a Wiki-War over this issue.  Please take a few days to consider these sources and change the name of the article to "Beit Hashita" as most people looking for it would expect to find.  When was the last time you were on Beit Hashita or bought a can of their olives?
:Dmprantz, I searched and will continue to search for an authorized source of the spelling.  I found a map that has yet a the spelling "Beit ha Shitta" (http://www.mideastweb.org/northernisraelmap1949.htm). According to the web site "... is part of a map prepared in 1944 by the British Palestine Survey. It was updated in 1946, and was apparently used by the armistice negotiators in 1949 to provide the basis of the Israeli-Jordanian border as it was until 1967." Another map site (http://www.eyeonisrael.com/) uses "Bet-Hashita".
:If you find a truely official source, please state it here and I will change to whatever you find.  In the mean time, I created an article with the name "Beit HaShita" that redirects to this article.  With name spelling, I do not feel that the official naming is natural or commonly used.  For example, all the Krayot are spelled with a Q - Qiryat Shemona, Qiryat Ono, etc.  Most people (including myself) would spell these names with Kiryat. Steve G 11:10, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There's no rule on this, but the way we've been transliterating these things on WP, I would suggest "Beit Hashita" - CrazyRussian talk/email 03:08, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Dmprantz,  When you first complained about my chosen spelling for the kibbutz's name in English, your main claim was "All English road signs in Israel refer to it as Beit Hashita".  Well, on the Hebrew version of this article there is a picture of a road sign.  Guess what, the road sign spells it "Bet HaShitta", just as I did when I created this article for the first time.  Steve G 13:58, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  You got me there.  The sign was not my main claim, just one of many.  I think I may have a picture some where of an older sign (before the hotel was on the Kibbutz) with the other spelling.  I also may not.  I seem to recall being curious over the fact that the word was spelled differently between the kibbutz and the town of Bet She'an.  Even still, if I was wrong on the road sign, I apologize, but I contend that "Beit Hashita" is the more correct usage based on its wider use in English and the way that the kibbutz spells its own name on the products they sell in the US. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dmprantz (talk • contribs) 18:50, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources 

message: The article gives a founding date of 4 December 1928, but I cannot find any source for that.  The kibbutz website features the date 25 Tishrei 1928 (4 October 1928), but that was only the day on which "group classes" (קבוצת החוגים - is there a better translation?) were held in Hadera by a group of people to plan the settlement. They didn't live at this place for years, it wasn't even purchased until 1931, so calling 1928 the founding date is dubious.  The founding date given by the 1952 Yearbook of Israel is Dec 12, 1935, and I'll use that. Zerotalk 10:15, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Note that Carta's Official Guide supports 1935 as the founding year. Zerotalk 10:26, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Date of founding 

message: Salman Abu Sitta, quoted in Uri Davis, 2008,  In Search of the Abu Sitta Sword, p. 43 say this it was built on Sursock land, but Stein contradicts that (in some detail). The land was owned by first two, later one absentee landlord in Haifa, Huldra (talk) 21:56, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uri Davis, Salman Abu Sitta