Talk:Juba (disambiguation)

message: moved. While I agree that that recentism is a concern and that the long term impact of the capital city versus the many other meanings of Juba is uncertain, the relative 'unknown' nature of the other Juba's, the current primary nature of the capital city, and the analysis of Bazonka below,  all together make it is relatively safe to assume that this is likely to be the primary topic going forward as well. If it isn't, we can always reverse this move.  --rgpk (comment) 19:16, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Comment - Is there any other national capital that has a name that directs to a disambig page? -Kudzu1 (talk) 19:57, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Washington.  Powers T 03:17, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Saying Washington, D.C., is fairly standard convention, especially in English. Unfortunately, there is no such appellation for Juba. -Kudzu1 (talk) 05:39, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Kingston.  I could keep going.  Powers T 13:09, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Compare the global usage of Kingston with that of Juba. It is obvious the former needs disambiguation far more than the later. Cite a better example please.--Huaiwei (talk) 13:17, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Kudzu asked for one.  I've given two.  Tell me all of the requirements first, then we'll see if you've carved out enough exemptions to make Juba the only one.  Powers T 17:04, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Washington, D.C. and Washington (state) are both very important and prominent, and both deserve to be the primary topic. But that can't happen, hence having Washington as a disambiguation page. I think that there is a strong argument for moving the Kingston, Jamaica article to Kingston as it is the most important of the Kingstons listed (although Kingston, Norfolk Island is also a capital city of sorts). Of all the other Jubas, none are anywhere near as important as Juba, South Sudan. Bazonka (talk) 21:29, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: That may be, but no one's provided any evidence of that beyond "it's a capital city now".  Being a capital city is not one of the criterion for determining primary topic.  Powers T 23:39, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh for goodness' sake. Are you saying that a small Estonian village, a meal of leftovers, or an Iraqi soldier are of equal importance to a capital city of 250,000 inhabitants? (None of the other things listed on the dab page are just called Juba.) Bazonka (talk) 06:36, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

text: I would certainly support moving Kingston as well. -Kudzu1 (talk) 21:40, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Regardless, I think I've made my point.  Leaving Juba at Juba, South Sudan would not make it some singular anomaly among capital cities.  Powers T 23:26, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

text: Recentism has nothing to do with it. Yes, of course it's been in the news a lot recently, and it's likely to be in the news less in the future - but it'll still be a capital city, its importance will not be lessened by not being involved in a current event. Certainly more important than (forgive me) relatively obscure ancient kings. Bazonka (talk) 12:01, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Not obscure to students of ancient history. And probably of far greater significance in their day than the capital of (forgive me) an obscure country in an obscure corner of Africa. I'm afraid your argument that a capital city is more significant than a king doesn't hold water. Today it is, then it wasn't. Recentism again. Frankly, if you asked the average person on the street, I very much doubt whether they would have any more idea of what or where the city was than who the king was. It really doesn't seem to meet the criteria of WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:14, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: "Today it is, then it wasn't." Perhaps so, but what's really important is the future. I've been looking at the article traffic statistics (see ). Whilst these unsurprisingly show a massive spike for Juba, South Sudan this month, previously its views were less than those of Juba I of Numidia and Juba II (which I did not expect, but then I'm no expert in ancient history). However if we compare the statistics for the capitals of equally "obscure countr[ies] in an obscure corner of Africa", Bangui, N'Djamena and Nouakchott, then the stats are considerably higher than those of the kings (NB these were the first three obscure capitals I thought of). I think it is highly likely that a similar level of interest will continue with Juba, South Sudan, and if so, it will indicate a greater level of interest and importance to the "average person on the street". Bazonka (talk) 07:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia is not a crystal ball.  If, in the future, it turns out that the city becomes far more likely to be sought than all other uses of the word, then we can move it.  There's no deadline.  Powers T 13:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, but there has to be an element of forward-looking when assessing what should be a primary topic - we are trying to identify what will be the likeliest subject matter of future searches. An analysis of previous searches (as recommended by WP:PRIMARYTOPIC) can help us to estimate what will happen in the future, but we can never be absolutely certain - we're just making an evidence-based prediction of what is likeliest to happen. In this case, there is no real history of page stats for Juba, South Sudan as a capital city, but based on the evidence of article traffic stats for similar capital city articles, I think we can be fairly confident that it is worthy of primary topic status. If necessary, we can revisit this in a few months when we have real evidence, but I honestly don't feel that this is necessary. Bazonka (talk) 16:25, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree. There are many utterly obscure capital cities in the world that almost nobody outside the country has heard of. It's quite possible that once the current media interest in the new state has died down Juba will be among them. As LtPowers says, Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. -- Necrothesp (talk) 22:43, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

text: "You have to go way down" what, exactly? Are we talking about Google Books results? -GTBacchus(talk) 20:43, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

text: Country	Capital                	Population	Article hits
       	Jamestown, Saint Helena	714       	4482
       	Lobamba                	5800      	1795
       	Victoria, Seychelles   	24970     	5622
       	Mamoudzou              	53022     	1915
       	São Tomé               	56166     	3176
       	Moroni, Comoros        	60200     	5489
       	Mbabane                	95000     	3603
       	Praia                  	127832    	5546
       	Saint-Denis, Réunion   	142241    	3329
       	Port Louis             	147688    	8905
       	Malabo                 	155963    	9608
       	Gaborone               	191776    	10411
       	El Aaiún               	196331    	5241
       	Yamoussoukro           	200659    	4506
       	Porto-Novo             	223552    	3167
       	Maseru                 	227880    	4119
       	Windhoek               	233529    	12848
       	Bujumbura              	235440    	5587
       	Dodoma                 	324347    	5824
       	Banjul                 	357238    	5307
       	Bloemfontein           	369568    	11940
       	Bissau                 	407424    	3304
       	Djibouti (city)        	567000    	5498
       	Libreville             	578156    	8098
       	Bangui                 	622771    	5199
       	Asmara                 	649000    	12527
       	Lomé                   	737751    	6264
       	Niamey                 	774235    	4613
       	Abuja                  	776298    	22750
       	Nouakchott             	881000    	7289
       	Lilongwe               	902388    	5826
       	Kigali                 	965398    	9195
       	N'Djamena              	993492    	7086
       	Monrovia               	1010970   	13151
       	Tripoli                	1025244   	33357
       	Freetown               	1200000   	11313
       	Maputo                 	1244227   	11533
       	Antananarivo           	1403449   	11723
       	Yaoundé                	1430000   	6752
       	Brazzaville            	1500000   	9978
       	Kampala                	1659600   	15674
       	Ouagadougou            	1727390   	10972
       	Lusaka                 	1742979   	9735
       	Rabat                  	1787307   	17116
       	Bamako                 	1809106   	10221
       	Conakry                	1931184   	7733
       	Mogadishu              	2000000   	38070
       	Pretoria               	2345908   	25500
       	Tunis                  	2412500   	24839
       	Dakar                  	2452656   	22022
       	Harare                 	2800111   	15421
       	Nairobi                	3138295   	48071
       	Addis Ababa            	3384569   	36755
       	Cape Town              	3497097   	63492
       	Accra                  	3963264   	23668
       	Luanda                 	4799432   	21106
       	Algiers                	5000000   	19338
       	Khartoum               	5274321   	22135
       	Kinshasa               	10076099  	29403
       	Cairo                  	17290000  	55122
Bazonka (talk) 20:45, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

text: Nice work. Should we agree to revisit this and test Bazonka's hypothesis in a month or two? -Kudzu1 (talk) 07:25, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Why wait? Let's do it now. Actually, we should probably wait for a previously-uninvolved admin to close this move request and give his/her judgement. Bazonka (talk) 08:14, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested page move