Talk:1952 Egyptian revolution

message: The title of the page, "1952 Revolution", is most curious given that the most commonly used term is the "Egyptian Revolution".
While not discounting the immense importance of the 1919 Revolution, even a cursory view of historical literature, and various media will reveal that "Egyptian Revolution" is the standard historical term for the revolution of 1952. This is an incontrovertible fact and not in any way Nasserist as one contributor falsely claimed. Both supporters and opponents of Gamal Abd-El-Nasser routinely refer to the "Egyptian Revolution", and the use of this term does not preclude discussion of any of the negative policies and consequences flowing from the Revolution.
Indeed, certainty of terms is a desirable prerequisite for an open and frank exposition of the negative aspects of the Revolution and the republican era, in addition to its effects in other parts of the Arab World and Africa. Supplanting the standard and accepted term for "1952 Revolution" fundamentally compromises the neutrality of the article and could have the effect of misinforming the reader.
The preference for "1952 Revolution" over "Egyptian Revolution" either stems from ignorance or from a biased personal political attitude. Such an approach compromises the neutrality of the article and the purpose for Wikipedia's existence.
Furthermore, it defies common sense to use the less used term as the title for the page as the average Wikipedia user would generally type in "Egyptian Revolution" in the search bar, and would then be left with no page (I myself, and many of my colleagues have experience of this). 
Louse 08:29, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The issue over the title of this page has been raised as a result of a question on the Humanities Desk.  This important event in Egyptian history is, quite frankly, difficult to find under the present title.  I suggest changing it to the 'July 23 Revolution' or the 'Egyptian Revolution of 1952', the latter for preference.  Are there any objections to this?  Clio the Muse 23:09, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I was the person who (eventually) found this article and linked it on the Reference Desk, I meant to say something at the time about the article name which is the worst I can remember seeing in Wikipedia. The article should be changed to Egyptian Revolution of 1952 other revolutions follow this format so changing it shouldn't be contested. - X201 12:40, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I moved the article and redirected "Egyptian Revolution" here (1952 Revolution). --Ghirla-трёп- 19:37, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I may be coming to this discussion a bit late, but I feel the need to mention that referring to this event as the "Egyptian Revolution" is contested, as Clio the Muse rightly predicted at the Humanities Reference Desk. I am referring BTW to the redirect, not the recent name change. I should also mention that I do not agree with the unsubstantiated claim that the most common name in Egypt is "Egyptian Revolution" as has been suggested in the beginning of this thread, but "July 23 Revolution" or sometimes simply "July Revolution". At any rate, I am going to create a disambiguation page for Egyptian Revolution to avoid the contentious redirect here. — Zerida 03:09, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As an Egyptian myself, I have never heard any native referring to the 1952 revolution as "Egyptian Revolution", it is predominantly referred to as Zerida said: "23 July Revolution" or "July Revolution" for short, and on a smaller scale would be called "52 Revolution".  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bbussal (talk • contribs) 12:20, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "1952 Revolution" vs. "Egyptian Revolution" 

message: Should include the Arab Liberation Flag, or whatever it was called... AnonMoos 03:01, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I added a UAR flag but I don't see where the Arab Liberation flag goes.  Can we add some more images?  RJFJR (talk) 15:44, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Flag

message: There is a neutrality tag on this page.  Can anyone cite specific neutrality problems?  (It seems pretty factual to me). RJFJR (talk) 15:43, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It was a military coup, quite bloodless too. However, the pretty much immediate effects of the coup were revolutionary in every way. The monarchy was abolished, all political parties were disbanded, land reform and the fall of the pashas was enacted, socialist reforms began including the nationalization of the Suez Canal, open British influence in Egypt was practically destroyed and Egypt became an Arab Republic according to the 1956 constitution. So, yes it was a revolution and most books I've run through refer to the event as a revolution or the beginning of one. --Al Ameer son (talk) 03:37, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

text: Indeed we should not let our personal preferences affect how we handle facts, but we do let the sources. The sources almost overwhelmingly use the word revolution for this event. It is widely known as the Revolution of 52. You cannot say here is the definition of "revolution" and here is the definition of "coup" and this fits "coup" more than "revolution" so lets call it a coup. The sources determine what we call this, and even the sources that say it was a coup usually say something along the lines of "The Egyptian revolution took place when a group of officers, known as the Free Officers Movement, seized power in a bloodless coup". The name of the article is determined by the name used in the sources, and here that name is revolution. nableezy - 16:13, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

text: Fair enough. nableezy - 18:16, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Just to state outright, I try hard not to let my personal POV leak on Wikipedia's articles and their talk pages; if I have which I don't really see how, well then I apologize. Anyway, now I understand what you are saying. In this case "coup" would be more appropriate since it would be like Wikipedia is stating that what happened at 7:30 on July 23, 1952 was a revolution. We could say the radio station broadcast the first communique of a "revolution" as long as we attribute that to the station. I don't feel like looking deeper into what this particular source says, so stating coup (not in quotations) would be fine. --Al Ameer son (talk) 18:55, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality 

message: The introduction mentions that the 1952 revolution inspired other Arab and African states to remove their pro-Western leaders.  Does anybody know which revolutions came as a consequence of that which occurred in Egypt?
Doors22 (talk) 19:21, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other Revolutions 

message: The article is pretty much about the Nasser era. I am going to creat an article called Nasser era and moving much the article to that. --BoogaLouie (talk) 22:06, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: change name

message: The "Causes" section of this article states that both the United States and Soviet Union were dissatisfied with the monarchy being a British puppet regime, to the extent that both actively worked through their intelligence communities to undermine and topple the regime.  It is understandable that the Soviets would not be happy with a British puppet state in the Middle East, but it does not logically follow that the United States would oppose this as well.  To the contrary, a regime friendly to the Western powers would be a tremendous advantage.  And considering that the three bullet points are taken nearly word-for-word from an article on news.egypt.com (with some additional unsubstantiated and unverifiable claims about the CIA and KGB) and not any sort of historical source, I think these statements do not conform to the NPOV style nor the encyclopedic quality standards set forth by Wikipedia.  As such, I am removing them. 63.115.56.32 (talk) 20:24, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dubious statements in "Causes" section 

message: I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:
::This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:
::#There is consensus on the talkpage or the NPOV Noticeboard that the issue has been resolved
::#It is not clear what the neutrality issue is, and no satisfactory explanation has been given
::#In the absence of any discussion, or if the discussion has become dormant.
Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 04:18, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  removing POV tag with no active discussion per [[Template:POV]] 

message: * The Wikipedia:Guide to writing better articles says: "When you do create links, link only one or a few instances of the same term; don't link all instances of it."  
* Wikipedia:Avoiding common mistakes warns against "Over-Wikifying": "Wikipedia thrives on internal links, but keep it within reason."
* Also, links should be made only where they are relevant to the article, and not to every word. See Wikipedia:Make only links relevant to the context. 
WP:OVERLINK specifically says:
:"Unless they are particularly relevant to the topic of the article, it is generally inappropriate to link:
:*plain English words; 
:*terms whose meaning would be understood by almost all readers; 
:*items that would be familiar to most readers, such as the names of major geographic features and locations, religions, languages, common professions and common units of measurement (particularly if a conversion is provided); 
:*dates."
Ground Zero | t 21:55, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Linking

message: There is no evidence to substantiate Miles Copeland's story that he and Kim Roosevelt met with the Free Officers prior to the Revolution and offered American support. According to America's Great Game: The CIA's Secret Arabists and the Shaping of the Modern Middle East (pg. 138): "William Lakeland, who himself had close links to Nasser and the Free Officers, expressed doubts that Miles and Kim met with leading members of the movement before the revolution....In a second echo of March 1949, when Za'im approached British military adviser Colonel Gordon Fox prior to launching his coup, there is evidence of the Egyptian Free Officers courting Western suitors besides the Americans. In December 1951, another British military instructor, former RAF intelligence officer Group Captain Patrick Domville, wrote the Conservative member of Parliament Julian Amery telling him that friends in the Egyptian army and air force had asked him to seek secret British support for a plot 'to overthrow....the King and then to set up a military dictatorship.' Perhaps most damaging to Miles' claims, both Kim Roosevelt himself and several of the Free Officers allegedly involved later denied any CIA role in the conspiracy to depose Farouk."TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 11:01, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copeland's story 

message: The standard of English in this article is poor. Wodorabe (talk) 21:45, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Poor English an embarrassment 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I wrote that King Farouk I was overthrown and you keep removing my edit, don’t remove it again, otherwise you are removing facts..... Super.mix5101 (talk) 20:47, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Such specifics are unnecessary. Vif12vf/Tiberius (talk) 22:58, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stop removing my edit 

message: The Revolution was faced with immediate threats from Western imperial powers, particularly the "Jamaca", which had occupied Egypt since 1882, and France, both of whom were wary of rising nationalist sentiment in territories under their control throughout Africa, and the Arab World.
This "jamaca" links to the country Jamaica? Why is this is the article? Did Jamaica actually occupy Egypt and I am just uninformed, or is this just pure misinformation?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.72.205.60 (talk) 18:38, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why does the article say Jamaica occupied egypt for 70 years? 

message: An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect :First Republic of Egypt and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 August 6#First Republic of Egypt until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 16:16, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "First Republic of Egypt" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: The infobox and body of the article state that the US backed the revolution; the source given is the quote from a ref that " ... whether or not the CIA dealt directly with the Free Officers prior to their July 1952 coup, there was extensive secret American-Egyptian contact in the months after the revolution." In the ref, this quote follows "Perhaps most damaging to Miles’s claims, both Kim Roosevelt himself and several of the Free Officers allegedly involved later denied any CIA role in the conspiracy to depose Farouk, Kim explicitly rejecting the suggestion that he returned to Egypt after his February trip to meet with Nasser and the others — although he did admit that the Agency was “informed indirectly” of the coup plot (and family correspondence indicates that he might in fact have traveled to Cairo in April)."
Is US support after the revolution or being informed shortly before sufficient to state that the US supported the revolution itself? I don't believe this is how this is done in other infoboxes (i.e. Saur Revolution, where both were true of the Soviets). If no one has any objections I intend to change this shortly. PaKYr (talk) 00:50, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  US Support for Revolution 

message: From: The rise and fall of Soviet influence in Egypt by Gregory Hale Bradford https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA041161.pdf
Page 25 (27 in the pdf)
"The Egyptian revolution in July 1952 did little to change the Soviet attitude toward Egypt and the potential there for Communism. The initial Soviet reaction to the coup and the new leaders was a mixture of caution and even hostility . The coup in Egypt was seen in Moscow as Anglo—American rivalry for predominance in Egypt . 3 The An Nah ar research staff wrote that “ ... the overwhelming impression during this period is that the Soviet Union considered the 1952 revolution to be of little significance either for its own policies toward the country or for the Egyptian people themselves ”"
From Soviet Foreign Policy towards Egypt by Karen Dawisha  
Page 6
"The Soviet view of the new Egyptian regime continued to be hostile well into 1954 with numerous articles appearing in which it was stated, for example, that the Egyptian revolution 'did not bring about any essential changes in the situation. The reaction in Egypt has increased' . It is, of course, true that the establishment of close Soviet-Egyptian relations was not exactly the first priority of the Naguib-Nasser regime either. Indeed, the suppression of the Egyptian Communist Party continued, and relations between Egypt and the West were initially very cordial"
From "The Soviet Union and Egypt, 1947-1955" by Rami Ginat (his phd thesis) https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/46517908.pdf
Page 205 (208 in the pdf)
"The "Free Officers" coup d'etat on 23 July 1952-*-, was understood by the Soviets to be another link in a chain of attempts by the Western Powers to bring into power in Egypt a government which would serve their interests. The Soviets did not pay much attention to the fact that for the first time in the 20th century, the Egyptian army was deliberately involved in politics. The first Soviet comment, issued by Tass on 24 July, did not mention General Muhammad Najib's statement explaining o the motives behind the coup. It mainly focused on (All Mahir, the new Prime Minister who was described as a tool in the hands of the Americans. Tass remarked that *AlI Mahir's previous accession to power in January 1952, had followed "consultations with U.S. diplomats aimed at involving Egypt in the aggressive Middle East Command" . The Soviets concluded that the political instability in Egypt had been caused by "the interests of foreign imperialists" and also by the rivalry between the Americans and the British for domination in the Middle East. For instance, the former Prime Minister Hilali Pasha was known to be pro-British and his successor, 'AlI Mahir was "fully trusted by the Americans". The strengthening of American influence would probably increase the prospects of Egypt's acceptance of the M.E.C. proposals ." 
Drsmartypants(Smarty M.D) (talk) 04:56, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why I removed Soviet Union from the 'Supported by' section in the info box 

message: "French support" was added by an anonymous user with a currently blocked IP address at this revision 
It has no sources other that a comment in the edit message saying "Had French support". I'm decently well read on this subject and I have seen no evidence that the French government supported King Farouk during the coup. While the French didn't like Nasser by 1954 for his support of the Algerians, this is not the same as saying the French were in anyway involved in local Egyptian politics in June of 1952.  Drsmartypants(Smarty M.D) (talk) 07:24, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why I removed French Support