Talk:Panini (sandwich)

message: Clearly it would be absurd to have a grammatical inconsistency between the title and certain captions which currently use panini as the single, as established in the now closed RfC above, and the subsequent usage within the article. There is no current acceptable precedent within the article, as the usage is inconsistent. Therefore this RfC must come to a definitive conclusion as to whether panini or panino is the more commonly used singular term within the English language, and that decision should then be consistently reflected in all usage of the term, including the title of the page. Py0alb (talk) 15:59, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: The title is grammatically ambiguous, due to the varied usage of the word—the very cause for this discussion. As  has previously noted here, while we prefer the singular in article titles, there are exceptions. I suggest that this is an excellent case for an exception to WP:SINGULAR, due to the controversy over the usage of the word (a controversy that extends well beyond this discussion, after all), and the lack of a clear preference in reliable sources or usage data. Given this, I believe 's solution—avoiding the issue entirely by using only the plural form—to be not only the most palatable, but the best way for us to avoid disruptive edits in the future by editors who feel strongly one way or the other. Ibadibam (talk) 17:08, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Using only the plural form does not avoid the issue at all. If the article has a sentence like "Panini are Italian sandwiches", that would clearly be following the panino/panini usage, not the panini/paninis usage. —Granger (talk · contribs) 21:47, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: What about the panini/panini paradigm that others suggest is more common than panini/paninis? Ibadibam (talk) 23:15, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point—I didn't realize that that usage existed, but after looking at Google News, it seems to be more common than I would expect, so the plural compromise seems acceptable to me. I still think that following the panini/paninis usage is preferable, though. —Granger (talk · contribs) 08:33, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  The manual of style says "Use the appropriate plural; allow for cases (such as excursus or hanif) in which a word is now listed in major English dictionaries, and normally takes an s or es plural, not its original plural: two excursuses, not two excursus as in Latin; two hanifs, not two hanufa as in Arabic." You could easily add "two paninis and not two panini as in Italian" to that list. So that solution is not going to work. It HAS to be panini/paninis because that reflects the most common usage. Py0alb (talk) 10:30, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't tell me you are trying to regularise/ize English spelling? Sources are inconclusive, opinions are divided. It will be whatever we work out through consensus, not what any one editor dictates, no matter how firmly his heart tells him that he alone is right. --Pete (talk) 10:50, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  Except sources aren't inconclusive, and opinions aren't really divided. Its just one or two disruptive editors attempting to impose their prescriptive linguistic preferences onto the encyclopaedia. Py0alb (talk) 14:36, 29 May 2016 (UTC)

text: The title is not grammatically ambiguous. If it were plural it would be Panini (sandwiches). Panini (sandwich) is clearly the singular form. Besides, this very issue was discussed and a consensus reached some 8 years ago. This RfC needs to decide once and for all what IS the accepted singular form in English, and if we're going to over-rule the previous consensus, we're going to need damn good evidence to do so. The below discussion will establish whether or not that evidence is forthcoming Py0alb (talk) 21:57, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Please let me suggest that editors who object to using the plural in the text make a list of the occurrences on the page where they feel that it is necessary to use the singular. Perhaps there are ways to rewrite those sentences as "panini are", or perhaps such a list will demonstrate that always using the plural will not be workable. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:13, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: The subject matter should be referred to in whichever tense is most logically appropriate. In the vast majority of cases, that will be the singular. The first sentence for example, should start "A PANINI IS".  Where it is referred to in the plural, it should be referred to as "paninis are". "Panini are" is ungrammatical as it combines a singular noun with a plural verb. Py0alb (talk) 06:55, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussion 

message: you didn't respond to  when you , so I'll raise the question here. While the panini has origins in Italian cuisine, the dish's forms in other countries have strayed pretty far from those origins. I recognize that :Category:Sandwiches is a diffused category, though, so that wasn't the best solution. We could take an approach more like pizza, where we add multiple cuisine by nationality categories. What do you think? Ibadibam (talk) 19:04, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I am of the belief that if a child category automatically puts something into a parent category, placing both categories in the article is redundant. Since adding panini to :category:Italian sandwiches in the article automatically includes it in the categories :Category:Sandwiches and :category:Italian cuisine, putting the article into either of the latter categories in is unneeded. If you can locate other applicable categories for the article that might be appropriate, than feel free to do so. Is there a :category:grilled sandwiches or :category:toasted sandwiches? Thoses would be good ones to create. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 07:51, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm more talking about :Category:American sandwiches and :Category:British sandwiches, since there are variations on those dishes that go beyond simply adjusting to local tastes, to the extent of reimagining the dish entirely. Case in point: the tri-tip panini currently pictured in the article, which has more in common with a cheesesteak than any sandwich dreamed up in Italy. Ibadibam (talk) 18:46, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Categorization 

message: I'm Italian, and "panino" doesn't mean 'sandwich', but  (https://www.treccani.it/vocabolario/ricerca/panino-imbottito/Sinonimi_e_Contrari/ and https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panino). The panino imbottito, or panino ripieno, is what the British and Americans refer to; I think some corrections need to be made to this page. JacktheBrown (talk) 23:40, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  IMPORTANT: "Small form of bread"