Talk:AMT Hardballer

message: I have updated this page so most of your questions should now be answered. A picture has been added as well.
As for the 'Silverballers' I believe this is a nickname for actual Hardballers in the Hitman game.
As much as I've read about AMT I haven't found anything about the Hardballer in .38 caliber at all.—Preceding unsigned comment added by K-Man75 (talk • contribs) 13:50, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Major update 

message: I corrected the article for the following - I deleted the assertion that they all came with wrap around rubber grips and loaded chamber indicators. I bought mine new in 1980 and it came with wood grips. It does not have a loaded chamber indicator and I do not believe any of them ever did, at least none that I have ever seen that were manufactured up until the AMT company went out of business.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.23.178.203 (talk) 18:15, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: untitled comment

message: "In the fictional videogame 'Hitman', its main character, Agent 47, almost always carries two 45.ACP AMT Hardballers as his signature weapons."
Why in the world does it say "fictional videogame"? It's like saying that the videogame doesn't really exist. And the Terminator reference should really be cut out of the main text and put under the same headline as this. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.90.83.237 (talk) 22:25, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right, I've made the corrections.--Vittau 03:35, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Oh wait, less than one minute after I did this, user LWF deleted it all... honestly I don't see reason for the deletion. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Vittau (talk • contribs) 03:41, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Weird sentence 

message: Are we sure it's .38 Special?  .38 Super would be more common in a 1911 style automatic. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.118.72.85 (talk) 04:01, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Longslide;  .38 Special or .38 Super? 

message: Hello...
I added a 'In Popular Culture' tab. If you are going to delete it in any way, just tell me why by posting a message in my talk page. Bye. Altaïr Skywalker 47 (talk) 17:58, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  In popular culture 

message: There is nothing notable about the appearance of this gun in a Hitman videogame. This is Wikipedia, not IMDFB. Per the WP:GUNS guidelines: "Citations are needed if the notability of an appearance is disputed; these citations should not be a list of appearances but should be a source actually showing increased fame or notoriety because of the appearances." If you (Naapple) can find a reliable source clearly stating the weapon had increased fame or notoriety due to the Hitman appearance, post it on the talk page here so it can be discussed. ROG5728 (talk) 01:11, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: See the topic above.  Consensus was reached.  If you have an issue, bring it up there.  Thanks.  Naapple (Talk) 03:38, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, but fly-by-night IP editors carry virtually no weight in determining consensus (which can change, by the way). Speaking of consensus, the WP:GUNS guidelines were formed by consensus, and this addition fails the criteria set forth there. Again, this is Wikipedia, not IMFDB..... You need to cite some sources clearly stating that this weapon had increased fame or notoriety due to the Hitman appearance. For an example, take a look at the Walther PPK article, which cites a source saying James Bond's use of the PPK greatly contributed to its sales and popularity (I highly doubt the same could be said of Hitman and the AMT gun). ROG5728 (talk) 18:45, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: If you bother to read what a wiki project actually is, then you'll see that there's no authority there.  They've established what they think are a good set of guidelines to edit by.  For the most part it's pretty decent, and I'd like to adhere to it.  However, quoting it as a policy is absolutely wrong.  It's not a policy at all, and even so, I'm not suggesting it be broken; the hardballer's use in Hitman does contribute to it's recognition.  Several editors on this talk page over the past few years have stated the same thing.  Not only that, but there are plenty of examples of people buying exact replicas or making their own custom hardballer to look like the one from hitman.  Naapple (Talk) 19:52, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, you were the one insisting we follow consensus, and consensus across the entire WikiFirearms project (in general) has been to exclude pop culture trivia because it's pointless and clutters gun articles with info that is basically useless to most readers. If the Hardballer's use in Hitman did contribute to its sales and popularity, as you say it did, then you should be able to find a source that says so. But I highly doubt that's the case. And the ancient talk page comments by a couple of IPs have no bearing on what we should do in the article today. ROG5728 (talk) 20:12, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The "consensus" in wiki firearms doesn't apply to pages.  There isn't a separate set of rules for firearms on wikipedia.  No one's saying we should include every instance of when a firearm was used in game/movies/etc, but the hardballer's use in Hitman has increased it's popularity.  The fact that there isn't some news article reporting an x amount of gun sales on the hardballer after the Hitman series started doesn't mean that it hasn't affected it, and even on the PPK page, the only Bond cite is to an encyclopedia.  There are several forum posts of people looking to buy a hardballer from the game, and complaining of it's increase in price.  To be blunt, the hardballer is a cheaper, inferior clone to the 1911.  It's popularity and price is absolutely influenced by this game, as is it's recognition for a handgun that would otherwise be unnotable.  It would be outside the intent of wikipedia to not recognize this all in the name of blindly following to the letter some wiki project's policy that doesn't actually carry any authority. Naapple (Talk) 21:13, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

text: I normally weed these out of the firearms articles. However, if you google hitman and amt harballer you get 8000+ hits, including people looking for the now discontinued guns because of the game and modding their guns to look like the ones in the game. While it is only about 25% of the number of hits for AMT Longslide and Terminator; I think it is notable enough with a print reference. Its not like someone trying to include it in the M16 article because the character uses an M16. This seems to be the character's primary weapon in the game.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 21:29, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pop culture trivia 

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thread_title:  External links modified