Talk:1996 Charkhi Dadri mid-air collision

message: In my humble opinion, this is a relatively poor article in comparison with many others on aviation disasters. Seen as this is the deadliest mid-air collision in history, it seems fitting that the article should be of a slightly higher quality. Something akin to these, perhaps:  or .
Another problem I have with the article is that the “history and cause” section doesn’t really have anything to do with that in the subsequent paragraphs.
A golden coin and a kipper to the person who can work on this person’s efforts and produc a polished article... – J.S, 6th May, 2007 02:31am GMT
:One of the problems is, despite this being one of the worst air disasters in the world, and as compared with other major air disasters, there is an appalling lack of official information on-line about it. The official report from the Justice R. C. Lahoti Court of Inquiry (15 July 1997), which includes the report of the accident inspector, K P S Nair, is no-where to be found. The only sources seem to be press stories. --GregU 17:24, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup & Polish? 

message: Why is this page called a mishap when 349 upper-class people died in the world's biggest mid air collision in history? Tri400 13:14, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As titling for the page - now sorted (see next section of this talk page).  As for the term mishap . . yes, it seems grotesque.  But from a certain standpoint it was a reasonable term to use!  It is / was the traditional term in the aviation world (still in use recently if not currently by the USAF, I believe).  But yes, out of place in an encyclopedia intended for general readership.  84.9.118.19 (talk) 22:10, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mishap or massive disaster? 

message: Is this disaster a mishap or a mid-air collision? Most people who'd heard about the disaster will always refer to it as a "mid-air collision". And those people might not know about the name of the location and say that it happened over "somewhere in India, probably near New Delhi". The page should be renamed so it can be more easily identified.
202.95.200.12 05:49, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree totally. A mishap is when two cars hit each other with minor damage, in other words it denotes a non-major incident. As there seems to be general consensus in other posters, I will be WP:BOLD and move to mid-air collision. --Russavia 07:12, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I renamed it from "... air mishap" to "... mid-air collision". --GregU 07:22, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Title 

message: Now this article has been renamed again, back to one of the two flight numbers (Air Kazakhstan Flight 1907), due to someone improperly listed it in the "clearly uncontroversial moves" section of Wikipedia:Requested_moves [], and then an admin quickly processing it without question. This should have been discussed here. I believe Flight 1907 was the less notable of the two flights, comprising only 10% of the fatalities, and that the previous title of 1996 Charkhi Dadri mid-air collision should be restored. --GregU 13:54, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The article doesnt say so... And I cannot even imagine how the ATC could cause this deviating altitude... Even if there were severe turbulences it should be possible to keep the plane at the same flight level +/- 200ft... But I dont know much about turbulences (I have just heard, that gas bubbles over the Bermuda triangle can make planes fall down; and I have heard, that pilots r quite eager to avoid lightning and turbulences, which might be the reason why they have an on-board weather radar in their nose)... --Homer Landskirty (talk) 19:59, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Improper rename 

message: I don't think any Hajj pilgrims would have been on board Saudia 763.  The date of the disaster in the Islamic calendar was 2 Rajab 1417, but Hajj is five months later in the month of Dhu al-Hijjah. --GCarty (talk) 19:20, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: i marked it as questionable (using the  template)... --Homer Landskirty (talk) 06:56, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hajj pilgrims ??? 

message: This paragraph: 
'Flight KZK 1907 was cleared to descend to 15,000 feet (4,600 m) when 74 miles (119 km) from the airport while Flight SVA 763, traveling on the same airway as Flight KZK 1907 but in the opposite direction, was cleared to climb to 14,000 feet (4,300 m). About eight minutes later, around 6:40 PM, Flight KZK 1907 reported having reached 15,000 feet (4,600 m) but was at 16,000 feet (4,900 m). At this time, Dutta advised the flight, "Identified traffic 12 o'clock, reciprocal Saudia Boeing 747, 14 miles (23 km). Report in sight." '
Doesnt seem to make sense? If KZK 1907 was cleared to descend to 15000 feet, but instead descended to 16000 feet, they couldn't have hit SVA 763 at 14000 feet? The rest of the article make us believe that KZK did something wrong, but if this was what they did wrong - that they didn't descend far enough, the accident shouldn't have happened!!
I don't know enough about the accident to fix this, but someone who knows what happened should probably fix this paragraph. My guess: KZK 1907 did in fact descend to 14000 feet, but reported being at 15000 feet.
--Avl (talk) 20:58, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for catching that.  I've corrected the narrative, citing the Aviation Safety Network. --Itsfullofstars (talk) 22:46, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

text: I watched the Mayday episode. According to it, it said it was at 15000 when it was actually at 16000. However, it continued to descend after that point, and eventually dropped below 14000. Griffinofwales (talk) 18:55, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Summary doesn't make sense 

message: During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
* http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9611/14/india/index.html
** In 1996 Charkhi Dadri mid-air collision on 2011-05-25 06:19:05, 404 Not Found
** In 1996 Charkhi Dadri mid-air collision on 2011-06-08 03:45:46, 404 Not Found
--JeffGBot (talk) 03:46, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 

message: During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
* http://www.natgeochannel.co.uk/programmes/air-crash-investigation/india-haryana-1996
** In 1996 Charkhi Dadri mid-air collision on 2011-05-25 06:19:11, 404 Not Found
** In 1996 Charkhi Dadri mid-air collision on 2011-06-08 03:45:56, 404 Not Found
--JeffGBot (talk) 03:46, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 2 

message: I think we should use the official two-character airline codes for the flight numbers - they are SV and K4 - instead of the three-letter ones that are mainly used in flight plans and flight control operations. 67.194.199.224 (talk) 01:00, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flight numbers 

message: "Kazakhstani" is used throughout the article. I was under the impression that the more common word to describe nationals of Kazakhstan (or aircraft originating in that country) is "Kazakh." Does the article need to be corrected, or am I simply confused? 68.116.104.240 (talk) 11:06, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Kazakh" vs. "Kazakhstani" 

message: Given that  refused to cooperate and does not respond to my queries at their talk page, I opted for leaving this message here.  will be reverted in a week or so, unless otherwise specified. Thanks.--Jetstreamer  19:30, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I went ahead, as per WP:SILENCE.--Jetstreamer  19:04, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I've reverted  of four edits. The changes are unnecessary and they are much of the same kind of the ones discussed above. Please discuss here before reinstating them. Thanks.--Jetstreamer  19:51, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Latest edits made by 66.114.28.63 

message: *  
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--Jetstreamer  14:43, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archived references not used in the article 

message: Is it correct that there were no casualties on the ground during the Charkhi Dadri mid-air collision?? The totals given imply that there were no on-ground casualties, but do not confirm this.
It would be quite conceivable that casualties could have occurred on the ground since the planes collided in a densely populated, even though rural, area in the Indo-Gangetic Plain, so I would appreciate a discussion and data to show the absence of deaths of people on the ground. luokehao (talk) 11:46, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Lack of casualties on the ground

message: Only the B747 image appears in the infobox, not the Il-76. 137.205.170.150 (talk) 16:52, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm having the same difficulty. Let's just wait a while just to be sure it's not a temporary issue with any Wikipedia server.--Jetstreamer  18:25, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  One image only in infobox? 

message: The originating city name from the Kazakh flight is Shymkent. It is not Chimkent. The city was originally Shymkent, was renamed Chimkent during the Soviet era, and officially renamed Shymkent in 1993. This accident took place in 1996. The city is Shymkent now just as it was Shymkent at the time of the accident. Even the link to the airport is correct  - Shymkent International Airport. It would be like referring to the 2008 Olympics in "Peking." Wikimandia (talk) 04:31, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I already told you at your talk  page that ″Chimkent″ is the name supported by sources in the article. That's what WP:VERIFY requires. Nevertheless, we can use a piped link, i.e. Chimkent (this links to Shymkent but shows Chimkent). What about this? If it does not please you, we can ellaborate on an alternative solution.--Jetstreamer  17:50, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: "Chimkent" is incorrect

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Charkhi Dadri mid-air collision. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://www.webcitation.org/5jjpHkvk4?url=http://www.casa.gov.au/fsa/2006/dec/42-44.pdf to http://www.casa.gov.au/fsa/2006/dec/42-44.pdf
*Corrected formatting/usage for https://www.nytimes.com/1996/11/13/world/two-airliners-collide-in-midair-killing-all-351-aboard-in-india.html?pagewanted=print&src=pm
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Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 03:38, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: Recently someone moved this page in order to include the year the accident has occurred. According to WP:DISASTER, the year of the accident should not be included in the title unless it is needed for disambiguation. In this particular case, it is not needed, along with those of several other similar events. I think we should move the page back to its original title. Funplussmart (talk) 22:54, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The year in the title is in line with WP:AATF naming conventions. Charkhi Dadri mid-air collision alone seems to be used in some sources, but I'm not sure it could be described as a name popular enough among the broad English readership to warrant an exception to the above. --Deeday-UK (talk) 10:46, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I took a look at both WP:DISASTER and WP:AATF and they do apparently contradict each other. WP:DISASTER states that the year should only be included if needed, while WP:AATF says the year should always be included. I'm considering bringing this up in Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Aviation/Aviation accident task force. Funplussmart (talk) 15:48, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Naming Convention Issue 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:
* 
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:52, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion 

message: Please change the similar Boeing 747 to the real 747 that involved in the crash because there are many images of the real Boeing 747. Here is one of the example ; Old Image : Boeing 747-168B, Saudia - Saudi Arabian Airlines AN0217717.jpg Old Description : HZ-AIA, a Saudi Arabian Airlines Boeing 747-100B similar to the aircraft involved in the collision.New Image :https://imgproc.airliners.net/photos/airliners/7/8/5/1960587.jpg?v=v40 New Description : HZ-AIH,the Saudi Arabian Airlines aircraft involved in the accident, in 1986. Juansipayung (talk) 08:16, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Before changing the current image to a new one, the new one must be uploaded to Wikipedia (or, better, to Wikicommons), and uploading an image to WP may or may not be allowed depending on the copyright status of the image in question. The onus is on you to ensure that an image can be legally uploaded to WP. --Deeday-UK (talk) 10:37, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

text: Not done: Your request consists only of a vague request to add, update, modify, or improve an image, or is a request to include an image that is hosted on an external site. If you want an image changed, you must identify a specific image that has already been uploaded to Wikipedia or Wikimedia Commons. Please note that any image used on any Wikipedia article must comply with the Wikipedia image use policy, particularly where copyright is concerned. —KuyaBriBriTalk 16:49, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 14 July 2019 

message: We still need more evidence to support claims. A lot of it is just news stories. We need the actual accident report. We could email the DGCA. Tigerdude9 (talk) 15:47, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  The actual report 

message: change the survivor / injury count from 0 to 0 (2 initially) and 0 (4 initially) for the 747 and il-76 respectively 2600:6C40:7800:F5:1CAF:4494:87F1:DA0F (talk) 02:00, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: . But there were no survivors, and it would be unclear what "initially" meant.  The article has more detailed information than an infobox can convey. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 02:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 10 May 2020 

message: Change the "world's deadliest mid-air collision" link from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-air_collision#List_of_notable_civilian_mid-air_collisions to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-air_collision#List_of_notable_civilian_and_military-civilian_mid-air_collisions as the header has changed. FozzieHey (talk) 21:02, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Done  Darth Flappy «Talk» 21:34, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 5 June 2020 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: Not moved: Nomination withdrawn per Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Disaster management/Naming.  Mako001 (C)  (T)  🇺🇦 01:33, 25 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: 1996 Charkhi Dadri mid-air collision →  – Only one notable mid-air collision around Charkhi Dadri. Having the year isn't really necessary, so per WP:CONCISE it should be dropped. Mako001 (C)  (T)  🇺🇦 08:04, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

text: Oppose. Proposal not in agreement with other article names: 2002 Überlingen mid-air collision, 1976 Anapa mid-air collision, and so on. Check the list in mid-air collision.--Jetstreamer  12:14, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: @Jetstreamer: I think I see where the current title comes from, is it the guidelines on WikiProject:Disaster management? If so, I'd withdraw this RM. Mako001 (C)  (T)  🇺🇦 00:54, 25 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 21 December 2022