Talk:Atlantean language

message: In the Unmentioned Verb Tense of Atlantean section, Noclevername marked as "needs citation" a passage that references original research and new ideas from yours truely.  How can I site myself?  I've tried to provide a brief remedy to the situation.
I plan to come back to this article to polish it up, at least in terms of my ideas that I put down here.
-Epigraphist
Epigraphist 16:37, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I hate to do this to you, since you've obviously put a lot of work into this article, but parts of it are in direct contradiction to Wikipedia's no original research policy. Although I'm sure that your speculation is plausible, the rules say cited sources only. Sorry.  Noclevername 21:10, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Thanks for being so cool about it. I'm used to getting chewed out on talk pages! ;) I'll make the necessary cuts. --Noclevername 04:29, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Previous discussions without headers

message: I tried to give the Institute its own article, using the KLI as my template.  It was deleted by the authorities.
Epigraphist 03:53, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Atlantean Language Institute article deleted speedily

message: This article needs revision quite badly, but it's going to be perhaps another 6 months or more.  For now, inquisitive parties should visit the Yahoo Tech Group "The Atlantean Language Group", itself in need of updating.
Atlantean is an SOV language with a strict word order.  
There's very little by way of phonological processes and it only occurs (in orthography) between the suffixes on the verbs.
Nouns are inflected with suffixes for Case then Number.   There are Nominative(-), Oblique(-tem) (for objects and postpositional objects), Genitive(-ag), Instrumental(-esh), and Vocative Cases(-top) (5) for nouns and Nominative(-), Accusative(-it), Dative(-ib), and Genitive(-in) (4) for pronouns.  There are also suffixes which come before Case which indicate other things about the noun (-mok means "big").  There are actually no nouns which are indeclinable, just situations in which declension is deemed semantically unnecessary.  There may be another Case marked with both Inst. and Obl. suffixes (like Sumerian), but I doubt it.  
-
Verbs are inflected for Tense/Mood/Aspect and then Person/Number.  Moods are:  "Normal" (about 12 variations) and Imperative (-/-yoh).  There may be a Perfect and Imperfect set, it's really hard to tell.  Tenses are Past, Present, Future.  There's at least one variation in aspect which put the action slightly earlier in the day.  Persons are 1st, 2nd, and 3rd and numbers are Singular and Plural (no Dual).  
A big area of uncertainty to me is how many different Tense/Mood/Aspect markers are in Atlantean.  I stand by my number of about 10.  Repeated visits and discoveries of new texts since December 2006 have led me to this.  
Genitives follow their nouns unless forming a compound.  Cases occur in this order in sentences, always: Instrumental Nominative Dative Accusative.   Postpositions.  
Questions are formed with intonation and 1 of 3 question particles at the very end.  No wh-movement.  
The syntax for longer sentence formation is funny.  It's perhaps non-Indo-European and possibly based on some Native American language(s) available to Okrand (Californian?).  It involves two related sentences connected with a connector word.
Words are mostly based on Proto-Indo-European roots mixed with Indo-European synonyms, sometimes cross-referenced with other ancient languages (like Classical Hebrew).  There's also words from (some) Chinese, Phonecian, Middle Egyptian, and various Native American languages, along with a few others, most of which I've encountered and verified.  It's very creative but hard to re-create which makes diciphering new texts without a translation a real bear.
As a last note:  For what it's worth, I'd like to note that the Wikipedia entry for this language is more comprehensive for that of Klamath-Modoc.  Yet I don't regret at all my time spent on Atlantean.  As it's based on real languages (but even if it wasn't), it's helped me in all the other languages and linguistic phenomenon which I have studied since December 2006 -emmensely.  I wouldn't be where I am today if not for Okrand's made-up language.  
-The "Epigraphist", from a remote source
35.9.174.13 (talk) 02:30, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Note on Grammar and Hope of Update

message: Today I'm going to begin updating this page.
Epigraphist (talk) 00:22, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Update of this Page 

message: Before someone gives you a Barnstar for your diligence:  This is a work in progress.  I hope to have all these issues with citations in a week to a month.  I'm afraid I don't have the liberty of time to work on this project that you have for criticizing and tearing down someone else's hard work.
Epigraphist (talk) 10:14, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I am doing no such thing, and I'm using templates so if you think it took me a long time to tag that you're going to need to read up on how Wikipedia works. You seem a little too vested in this article. It is not *your* page. - Ageekgal (talk) 10:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Relax, Please

message: Thanks for all help!  (Dosepentem tirid bet pageshenen!) Check out the "Klingon language" article's section on "Canon".  Also see "Phrygian".  "Canon" or "Corpus" are important concepts in corpus-based linguistics.  
Epigraphist (talk) 05:49, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Corpus

message: Give me a week and the other sources will be cited.  Eventually I'll even be able to switch to a less bulky and inefficient citation format.  Thanks to all again for their help.
Epigraphist (talk) 04:01, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: More Coming

message: Couldn't this page site a little more referance to the points in the movie where the language is spoken?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.79.185.75 (talk) 18:26, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Because we don't link to Facebook pages, blogs, forums, Yahoo! groups, and the like, as they are not reliable sources. Read :WP:EL. --Orange Mike  |  Talk 17:35, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Movie 

message: Check out the external link "Contains full corpus without language explanation."  It gives the corpus (including the movie and other works).  Maybe I'll edit the article in the next year to make more clear the text from the movie.  However, if I did, it might go the way of all other information relevant to this conlang and get deleted as "original research".  
Can people just leave some stuff up for a few years?  I'm a busy academic (in-training).  Citing this stuff takes time and involves me carting around a lot of books.  We don't all have laptop-style internet access.
Epigraphist (talk) 15:53, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: This and Other Issues

message: On 06:54, 5 October 2008 user OttoTheFish deleted massive sections of this article without any discussion here on the talk page.  Wikipedia apparently doesn't want people to know how Atlantean works.  It gives users no deadline for changes then makes permanent deletions.  Users who want to make a positive contribution often have to fight to keep their work online.  An encyclopedia that anyone can edit is severely flawed because anyone includes people who just don't know what they're doing.  I recommend no one contribute financially to the upkeep of this farce.  
Link to see those changes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Atlantean_language&diff=243121162&oldid=243094719
I would have eventually given citation for those sections but now I realize that I should direct my energy for Atlantean on the book I'm going to publish and on the language's unofficial Yahoo group.  Interested people will find it.  Contributing to Wikipedia is an inefficient use of energy.  Its users and directors chase away real talent on a regular basis.  Read abandoned profiles.  
Epigraphist (talk) 16:18, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Note to Readers

message: I had this link in the External Links section which I thought was very relevant to the topic in question and even supplied many of the sources this article makes reference to.  It's a mailing list that has the best of dicipherment efforts past and present archived and on-going on it.  Why is this not Wikipedia material?  When people type "Atlantean language" in Google, they get this article on top.  Why not include this link?  It's also the biggest resource on the Internet for the language.  Maybe not that many people care about the language, but still...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlantean_language/  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 35.8.131.163 (talk) 03:42, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Because we don't link to Facebook pages, blogs, forums, Yahoo! groups, and the like, as they are not reliable sources. Read :WP:EL. --Orange Mike  |  Talk 17:35, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Why deleted?

message: I've been researching the corpus for a while now, and I've found two examples of adjectives: "keylob.tem ta.mil", Royal Chamber, and "denet.en.tem gon.os.mig", giant trees. They share similar endings that start with "mi". Judging from how they change at the coda, adjectives may agree with their nouns. Taking into account the fact that Atlantean wasn't designed to be overly complex, I think that the "mil" simply reflects the singular and not the obliqueness of its noun, and that "mig" reflects the plural. Does anyone have clearer ideas?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kloiten (talk • contribs) 04:10, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adjectives 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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