Talk:Nameless One (Planescape: Torment)

message: A second take on The Nameless One's memory is that very early in the game, Morte had him start a new journal so that the incarnation that awakens will simply re-read the journal, becoming the same incarnation.
^Isn't that proven false within the game itself? Conversations with both Nordom and The Transcendant One make it very clear that TNO does, in fact, remember everything since he woke up in the Mortuary. So I'm gonna go ahead and take that part out, and add a note about the conversation options. --Cronodude360 06:50, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: He only learns that later.  At first it's assumed he'll lose his memories upon death. 66.97.138.73 (talk) 20:38, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Theories on Memory 

message: The practical incarnation states he tricked Dakkon by writing the unbroken circle of Zerthimon, to make use of his karach blade.  If this incarnation was a Githzerai, he could have used the blade for himself instead of relying on Dakkon.  He could have lead the people to true victory instead of refusing to wage war on the planes along with Gith, or dying in Limbo.  Zerthimon doesn't have some great regret over a past crime that would damn him for eternity.  Zerthimon doesn't seek immortality, he simply dies.  If the practical incarnation was Zerthimon, he would have spent all his time shaping Limbo into his will, using the Githzerai for his own purposes, extending his life, creating paradise, or any number of things.      
Instead, the practical one only wants Dakkon to fight alongside him, because of his blade.  If he had created the Githzerai, he would have used this to his advantage, telling Dakkon more about the Githzerai, calling himself a prophet, or trying to create more belief based weapons like the karach.
I believe the point of having the Unbroken Circle of Zerthimon as a forgery is that it shows the nature of faith and belief.  Either the circle was written based on studied knowledge of Githzerai myths and history, or the myth itself was made up and written down, to be passed on and believed in.  This calls into question the truth behind the myth, much like the Bible- did any of it actually happen, or was it simply created for others to believe in?  Dakkon shows that even if something has the possibility of not being true, it can still be believed in, it can still inspire faith in others, and it can make someone more powerful by their own will.66.97.138.73 (talk) 21:04, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There actually were more incarnations than the three "key" ones. So it's not entirely unreasonable for one of them to have been Zerthimon. But this is more of a forum than wiki question. CP/M comm |Wikipedia Neutrality Project| 08:09, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Zerthimon 

message: This article, as it is now, would be great in a fansite of the game. However, if you want it to appear in Wikipedia, you must write it in a way that anyone - whether or not he's played the game - will understand. A few examples: explaining the meaning of the word "incarnation" in the game the first time that word appears in the article; explanations about other characters when they are mentioned (such as Ignus, Dak'kon and Zerthimon in the fourth-to-last paragraph under Biography), as well as about other expressions (such as Baatezu); explanations about items such as the Bronze Sphere, and places like the Maze of reflections; and giving context to several of the paragraphs and statements (upon reading about the good incarnation, the layman reader wouldn't understand why and how the hell is he supposed to merge with TNO).
The fact I don't do it myself is that - although Torment is undoubtedly THE greatest game ever created - I do not think there should be a whole article just about the main character. If anyone disagrees, prove that you can give it the quality that is expected in Wikipedia. If you want a good example, look at the Lara Croft article - I've barely played Tomb Raider and never took much interest in the background story, and yet I understood each and every word mentioned in that article.
P.S. I don't remember hearing the name Lum the Mad in the game. Does he appear there, or only in outside sources? Please tell me who exactly is he, but without spoilers, thank you. Good luck with the article, Tamuz    (Talk)   13:44, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I also can't remember Lum to appear in Torment. Lum is a character in BG II:ToB, who created a machine in Watcher's Keep, which for example can change your stats. 80.140.92.46 (talk) 16:46, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I agree, the Nameless One should be put back into the Character of Planescape:Torment page. I think the only reason it was moved to its own page was because the section was getting too large and fragmented. There's also the point that, unlike Lara Croft, Mario, et cetera, TNO and P:T are inseprable, TNO will never be in any other game (from Chris Avellone's own lips: his story was finished), therefore a page to the character seems unnecessary. (DrZarkov 06:30, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, I think neither this page nor the List of characters in Planescape: Torment should exist. Both of them will probably be great in one of the game's fan-sites, but seem to me to be pretty much redundant here. While the main article about Planescape: Torment contains a lot of real-world information as well as enough "in-universe" info for whomever may be interested in the game, this two pages contain only fictional information about it; and, as you said, Torment is but a single game with no sequels or movies or whatever. Now, I can't start a vote for deletion of these articles because I don't have enough edits in the English Wikipedia for that, but... what do you think? Tamuz    (Talk)   15:23, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Serious rewrite