Talk:Frasier Crane/Archive 1

message: The article mentions that Frasier Crane is the character that has spent the most time on tv (20 years). However, the simpsons family have been one the air since 1987-21 years. Only on shorts on the Tracy Ullman Show at first, though, so should they count, too?   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.159.253.128 (talk) 19:37, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: True. It shouldn't be removed, but rather, re-worded.99.247.244.120 (talk) 04:33, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Longest Character run?

message: This article doesn't cite a single reference.  If I submit it for deletion on that basis, what particular brand of cognitive dissonance would you use to argue for keeping it? Rogerborg 10:27, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  No references 

message: there are several ties where the stories dont stick. like frasiers age and how martin was shot.. its a long series (11seasons) with a number of writers, so basicly mistakes are bouned to happen  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Topsecrete (talk • contribs) 18:37, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  defirences 

message: Is Frasier a psychologist or a psychiatrist? Apparently the show (wrongly) uses the terms interchangably.
*I guess he's both, since he directly helps people, but has a passion for the science as well. But, he's probably more of a psychiatrist. Jackpot Den 06:44, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As far as I know, one generally becomes a psychologist having completed pre-med, and if they wish to become a psychiatrist, finish medical school. You can't really be a psychiatrist without being a psychologist, it's like being a doctor but being unable to function as a nurse. Not all psychologists are therapists, like not all nurses are caregiver-practitioner-thingies.
All of the above explanations on the difference between psychiatry and psychology are partially or fully wrong.  Both clinical psychologist and psychiatrist treat patients.  A clinical psychologist has a Ph.D. (generally 4 years undergraduate 7 years graduate school) and a psychiatrist is an M.D. (4 years undergraduate, 4 years medical school, 3 years residency) or D.O.  Clinical psychologists are trained in psychology departments and professional schools of psychology, while psychiatrist go to medical school and then complete a residency in psychiatry.   Clinical psychologist treat patients through talk therapy, while psychiatrist generally use medications such as SSRI's.  Psychiatrist can use talk therapy with specialized training but usually do not because it isn't as lucrative as simply prescribing.  Ph.D. clinical psychologists can prescribe in a couple states with specialized training but generally use talk therapy.  There is a discrepancy in the show because Frasier talks about going to medical school but also discusses getting a Ph.D. (which he would not get at a medical school).  Based on how Frasier and his brother Niles treat and assess their patients it is much more likely that they are Ph.D. clinical psychologists than psychiatrist as psychiatrist.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.162.74.128 (talk) 04:12, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Job

message: Fictionally speaking, just how rich IS Frasier? He seems to throw money away left and right. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.122.208.51 (talk) 18:48, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: He could well come from old money; we don't know how wealthy his mother was, but she seems to have had upper class tastes. He and Niles also went to a private school and spoke and behaved like children from a (stereotypical) upper class upbringing. LeighvsOptimvsMaximvs (talk) 21:06, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Money

message: The article lists that Frasier can speak German. Couldn't he have spoken directly to the fencing instructor during the fight with Niles instead of interpreting via Marta? Or have I mis-remembered that episode? --Billpg 21:39, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think this one can be chalked down to a continuity error on part of the program makers - in the episode you identify he can't speak German, but I think it's established in later episodes that he can (I think one of his plans is to do a translation of Freud or something). Can't remember which specific episode, though. --Joseph Q Publique 01:36, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Just for the sake of those who like to keep things "in canon" in their heads, I don't think the two episodes contradict each other. When someone asks me, "Do you speak French?" my answer is no, but then they're amazed when I can speak some French and also read it. And yet I still don't consider myself to "speak French". Most likely, in the "Frasier" universe, Frasier was being modest/conservative about his abilities when he said he didn't speak German, and he quite probably meant he didn't speak it conversationally, which is much, much harder than merely being able to read and write in it, thus his ability to attempt a translation of Freud. wikipediatrix 00:19, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Languages

message: A spammer named Fraser Cain has created this link. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraser_Cain
Here is his only legitimate page. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universe_Today
I recommend this person be banned. A small ezine publisher masquerading as a TV celeb to try and steal extra hits to his website has to be a breach of the Wikipedia guidelines. At the very least it smacks of contempt for our intelligence or total disregard for netiquette. I also recommend that this section be deleted after action has been taken to rectify the matter. No need to give the little Troll any more attention. Here is how I discovered the vandalism. He was boasting about it at his site.
http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=41740 UniverseToday 01:00, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Please see Wikipedia:Requests_for_investigation#New_requests for record of User:UniverseToday's activity. - Reaverdrop (talk/nl/wp:space) 03:36, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Spam Abuse

message: How can you seriously consider an entry for a real living person in his real actual name, to be spam and "masquerading as a TV celeb" just because of the accidental similarity to the name of a fictional character in a TV show?
I consider your response to be in contempt of our intelligence since you apparently don't expect people to be able to distinguising the two spellings.
As for the claim of boasting, it was done with a lot of sockpuppets of UniverseToday who had earlier been banned from the board, which makes this look like a smearing campain by a disgruntles ex-user of the site in question.
I would like to apologise to fans of Frasier who inadvertently gets dragged into this dispute, this has nothing to do with you or Frasier and is only the result of UniverseToday's personal problems with a competing site. HenrikOlsen 12:00, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: A reply to the previous

message: Someone needs to go over his Cheers appearances. (Metnever 14:49, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Cheers episodes

message: Does Frasier have both? - MF
Both. For instance, he has written himself prescriptions in "Frasier Crane's day off" (indicating an MD) and there are indirect references to his PhD (eg "My son with his PhD mind" in the episode "Retirement is Murder") but Bebe makes it clear that he holds both in the episode "And the Whimper is". - Peter
A psychiatrist is a medical doctor specializing in psychiatry.  Why does he and his brother, Niles, seem to know nothing about medicine even though they both graduated medical school?  (both from Harvard?) Gatortpk (talk) 06:55, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: MD/PhD?

message: What the source for Frasier's middle name being "Winslow"?  He is twice referred to on Cheers as "Frasier W. Crane", but I cannot find any instances of his middle name being spoken aloud on-air, or shown on-screen.  172.129.148.229 18:51, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Winslow?

message: Should there be a section highlighting the rather extreme difference between Frasier on Cheers and Frasier on Frasier? I mean it's pretty clear that the writers of the latter took the character off in a completely different direction, doesn't that merit a section? -MichiganCharms 13:32, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Character differences 

message: This article needs more out-of-universe context about the character.  I won't add the  template, because I think that's a bit obnoxious, but I do think that the article is lacking in real-world information.  For example, what Cheers episode did Frasier first appear in?  (I don't think he was in the first season.)  Were the changes in the character's personality between Cheers and Frasier deliberate?  I'm sure that there are interviews with Kelsey Grammer or the shows' writers which could shed light on the character's development.  I'm not a Cheers expert, and I leave the task in the hands of those who are. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 02:56, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  In-universe style 

message: :Image:FrasierCrane1.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 15:14, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:FrasierCrane1.jpg

message: He doesn't have a normal American accent, so how can it be described? I think it should be added somewhere to this page. Please. Kansaikiwi (talk) 15:38, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Accent 

message: In the Cheers episode "Two Girls for Every Boyd" Frasier states that his father was a scientist who died before he moved away from his theatrical aspirations and went into psychology.  Is this contradiction with the "Frasier" TV show ever addressed? Nijyo (talk) 06:30, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This is retconned in the episode "The Show Where Sam Shows Up" when Sam brings up this discrepancy and Frasier's explanation is that he said his father was dead because they had had an argument and he was mad at him. I'm pretty sure this is mentioned somewhere on Wikipedia, possibly on the Martin Crane page. Christophee (talk) 14:46, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Father Discrepancy? 

message: If we're including an actor who played young Frasier in the infobox, then shouldn't we also include the other actors who played the character as a child? The three that come to mind are Andrew Dorsett in "Where Every Bloke Knows Your Name", Dustin Tragethon in "Momma Mia" and Cameron Bowen in "Deathtrap", although there may have been others that I don't remember. Christophee (talk) 14:57, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Young Frasier 

message: The final episode ends with Frasier flying to Chicago to pursue a relationship with Charlotte, forgoing a new career in San Francisco.
Does he really give up the job in San Francisco? It is not stated in the last episode and can only conclude due to the fact that he flight to chicago which can have other resasons too.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.123.108.69 (talk) 14:52, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Life on Frasier 

message: "While on the former he is a member of the upper middle class who sees no issue with brushing shoulders with the blue collar patrons of Cheers..."
Cheers is not a blue-collar bar. The bar's name is a bit hoity-toity, and we rarely see blue-collar patrons. Of the regulars, only Cliff is blue-collar. WilliamSommerwerck (talk) 15:29, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: blue collar?

message: One of Fraiser's running jokes is that he and Niles can't throw a dinner party without it turning into a disaster. (Woody's wedding on Cheers is also a near-disaster.) They're brilliantly conceived farces, which is remarkable for a character-driven comedy. At the very least, there should be a list of these episodes. WilliamSommerwerck (talk) 15:48, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: dinner parties

message: I have removed fictional biography about this character; I don't treat this article as if it should be a mere biography. Rather per WP:NOT, I have added creation and development and reception. Why have intricate details been added back? Now my head is spinning due to possibility that no one wants to watch Frasier the series, and I won't know which is relevant or irrelevant in terms of real-world perspective. As for fictional elements, unless relevant under real-world coverage, any intricate detail must be removed, including even his marriage to Lilith. (prev rev: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Frasier_Crane&oldid=476053274) --George Ho (talk) 21:08, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Lately, I have removed information that I deem as intricate details. Any objections, discuss first, add something based on real-world coverage then, and revert my removal last. --George Ho (talk) 22:03, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

text: Never mind above stroked message. --George Ho (talk) 02:39, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

text: There is a case for removing some excess detail in some places, but basically this is not a bad article, so trimming should be just that - not content removal, trimming overly excessive detail. I cannot, however, conceive of any circumstance, rule or regulation that would make me agree that we should not mention his marriage to Lilith in an article about Frasier. Begoon talk 04:38, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: If Lilith thing is necessary, what about Education? Is that relevant? --George Ho (talk) 04:47, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, again, it could be trimmed, but, to me, the education background is all part of the "likeable pompous" character he is. If you're going to write an article about Frasier, his privileged educational background is relevant, yes. It's part of his character. The section could be rewritten to remove a lot of little details and opinion, though.  Begoon talk 05:00, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: ...Let's read Pauline Fowler first beforehand. --George Ho (talk) 05:07, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice article. Pauline presumably had no special or priveleged education to speak of, just standard state education - so nothing to mention really. Different character type, different importance in background. Oh, yes, and a little bit WP:OTHERSTUFF, although it is an FA, so valid comparison to that extent. Begoon talk 05:14, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

text: What are the problems that veer toward POV? --George Ho (talk) 08:51, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

text: Oh, the personality section, but it's not egregious, by any means. I believe, George, that, rather than trimming this, your valuable time might be better spent building an article on some other deserving topic, but who am I to say? Wwwhatsup (talk) 09:14, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  What deserving topic? --George Ho (talk) 09:22, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Need help restructuring this article 

message: I have created . You can start discussing my version there. --George Ho (talk) 06:36, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  My own version of Frasier Crane 

message: I really don't think it's fair to only have two pictures of Frasier, since he changed so much over the years. I would like to add these pictures somewhere in the article:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/109/frasier1rebound.png/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/835/frasier2onefortheroad.png/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/205/frasier3thegoodson.png/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/715/frasier4goodnightseattl.png/
They are from his first appearance on Cheers, his last appearance on Cheers, his first appearance on Frasier, and his last appearance on Frasier. Does anyone have any objections or suggestions? Woknam66 talk  James Bond 21:55, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Two is fine. We must keep amount of non-free images at minimal, and each image must require a strong rationale. All images are good, but the current images we have are fine as they are, and they comply with image policies. --George Ho (talk) 21:59, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

text: From what I've learned, images must not be used to just provide a visual aspect of a character; images must be used to also collide and match the overall representation of Frasier Crane. --George Ho (talk) 22:02, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: According to number 5 at Wikipedia:Non-free_content#Images, it's alright to use a screenshot from a TV show as long as we say why it's there. Woknam66 talk  James Bond 22:27, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe an image like this: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/585/frasierall.jpg/ Woknam66 talk  James Bond 22:40, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, let's ask WP:MCQ about images, shall we? --George Ho (talk) 23:14, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a good idea, I'll do it tomorrow. Woknam66 talk  James Bond 03:49, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pictures 

message: Does anybody know that Nanny G appeared in Cheers, portrayed by Emma Thompson? Frasier's marriage in Nanny G was already established in the 10th season of Cheers. Why assuming it was established in Frasier? --George Ho (talk) 20:14, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Right now we just have to take your word for it. Perhaps you can establish a specific reference. Regards, Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 20:25, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes Nanny G was in Cheers. Episodes can be used as citations about their content. The character also made two appearances in Fraiser with different actresses.JOJ Hutton 21:01, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Speaking of inline citations, I haven't used one. Instead, I explicitly included episodes in body article in User:George Ho/Frasier Crane. Well, I skimmed down plot, but that's all I can do. Am I missing anything? --George Ho (talk) 21:04, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nanny G in Cheers