Talk:Bathos

message: Would the fresco of Jesus Christ "restored" by the inept Spanish amateur painter be an example of bathos?  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-19349921   She was innocent of her ineptitude (ie it was not intentionally done as a joke) and the results are hilarious, puncturing the sublime and sinking it. 88.27.20.193 (talk) 23:57, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

message: This is his own most elegant contribution to "The Art of Sinking in Poetry" 
Terry Foreman
*Only if you consider "bathos" to be synonymous with undercutting (see below).  Parody itself relies upon a countertext and an inversion.  The Rape of the Lock takes the form of Virgil to discuss the apotheosis of a curl.  Because Pope is fully aware that a lock of hair is not the proper cause of a feud, the joke works.  If he were stupid and unaware and believed that the snipping of a curl warranted a fight, then he would be Lord Petre or Arabella Fermor and silly.  (I.e. if Rape of the Lock is bathos, then so is Macflecknoe, Lines on the Death of Dean Swift, Absalom and Achitophel, The Splendid Shilling, and Namby Pamby.)  Geogre 03:24, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where is Pope's "Rape of the Lock"? 

message: The article is now entirely rambling.  Furthermore, it definitely conflates bathos with deflation, which is a longstanding comic technique that is totally unrelated to bathos.  The first two examples are, in fact, not bathos at all.  When Pope says, in Rape of the Lock, that great tragedies, like the death of a lover or Shock (the dog), he is doing it consciously for humorous effect.  Consciousness of the technique means, in fact, that it is not "sinking" in poetry, but rather undercutting.  (E.g. Kierkegaard saying that the self may be easily lost, and the loss of "an arm, a leg, or a wife" would be noticed more is a joke, and not bathos.)  I almost reverted way back to the last version by Wetman.
I think there are some nice things said since then, but I also think it has wandered and flopped about too much.  Yes, Pope applies it to all arts.  Yes, the radical juxtaposition of high and low is bathos.  No, it is not bathos when a person undercuts on purpose.  (Peri Bathos was a satire.  Not much point satirizing people who are doing it on purpose.)  Further, I have yet to hear the term used in contemporary English for deflation or undercutting.  I have heard it for unwitting undermining.  The Mechanicals' performance of Pyramus and Thisbe in A Midsummer Night's Dream is the only case I can think of where there is conscious bathos: it is funny because it combines very lofty tragedy with very bad acting, and it only functions because the players themselves must be unaware of how bad they are.  
In general, I have to say, "no, no, no."  This article now needs a major restructuring.  Geogre 03:20, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Late rewrites a bit ... eh... ungood 

message: The thing about using an example from the book of Revelation is that while it might be possible for someone to see the poetic figures as bathos, it is extremely unlikely.  The verses are allegorical, and, generally, allegory regularly violates physical reality to achieve its philosophical and historical message.  For example, Milton would never be accused of being bathetic for describing "the darkness visible."  So, similarly, while it's possible for someone who misses the entirety of the allegory of Revelation of St. John to see the mere poetic tropes as disjunctive, the readership would never be looking at those tropes that way in the first place.  In other words, there is no innocence of the author.  (Bathos requires a poet unaware of the disjunction being created and therefore a significant failure ("art of sinking in poetry"), but John is aware of paradox and intent on it.)  That's why I have removed the example: it simply isn't bathos.  Geogre 11:39, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "Well, I was terrified.  Everyone was terrified of Doug.  I've seen grown men pull their own heads off rather than see Doug.  Even Dinsdale was frightened of Doug. He used…sarcasm.  He knew all the tricks, dramatic irony, metaphor, bathos, puns, parody, litotes and…satire. He was vicious."
Having read what bathos was, especially the 'Dover pier' example, it reminded me of the verse in Revelation which I have always found funny. I visualise angels standing around looking at their watches. That's the disjunctive reception, on my part at least.
Anyway, thanks for clearing it up. I'll be looking up litotes next. Best regards, MatthewPetty 08:44, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that "MacArthur Park" is bathetic. "Weird Al" Yankovic's parody, "Jurassic Park" is easier to take seriously.  But something other than pop music might be altogether better.  A line form a crappy romance novel, perhaps?  --Scottandrewhutchins 01:18, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Part of the problem— which is more like the cultural equivalent of a language barrier than to tone-deafness— has been that "Decorum" in Wikipedia was merely a redirect to "Etiquette" (vivid!). So I've begun an article on literary decorum: its deconstruction by modernism has rendered post-historical readers— those lacking any historical perspective— unable to hear bathos, mock-heroic or literary burlesque, because they have no expectations. You'all might help out with decorum as well as finding some better examples of bathos here, to introduce both ideas more effectively in virgin territory. --Wetman 06:35, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

text: The OED has never been wrong, of course.  Not once, ever.  "Anticlimax" is not bathos.  Bathos may be an unintentional anticlimax, but if it is a figure of speech, then it isn't bathos.  Go read a book -- preferably Peri Bathos.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Geogre (talk • contribs) 20:20, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bathos requires innocence in the author and disjunctive reception 

message: Why does narm redirect to here?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.211.75.182 (talk) 07:51, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No idea. :)  I've changed the redirect to a more appropriate entry (National Association of Recording Merchandisers). 78.105.161.182 (talk) 10:17, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

text: I'd suggest making a "narm" disambiguation page.Qit el-Remel (talk  •  contribs) 01:57, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Narm 

message: I propose that the article on “Peri Bathous, Or the Art of Sinking in Poetry” should be merged into this one, on the grounds that the content is almost entirely duplicated. Лудольф (talk) 14:36, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal