Talk:Death and funeral of Pope John Paul II

message: The text states that 2 billion viewers watched the funeral of Pope John Paul II on TV. That's like in many cases of big events - the numbers of viewers are grossly exaggerated. I suppose that a very considerabloe number of Roman Catholics may have watched but the interest among the other Christian denominations and among other religions was very likely not as big. In addition, the funeral took place at 10:OO CET, that's 4:00 a.m. Eastern Time or 1:00 a.m. for Pacific Time when people could be expected mostly to be asleep, and for Europe it was during work hours when many people did not have time to watch. I think that "2 billion viewers" are unrealistic and exaggerated. Anyway, no source for this figure is given. --Maxl (talk) 21:56, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I have since removed this information, as the source used did not state this. Veverve (talk) 08:18, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  2 billion viewers? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect :Let me go to the house of the Father. and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at  until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  Veverve (talk) 03:30, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Let me go to the house of the Father." listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: moved.  Extraordinary Writ (talk) 07:55, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Death and state funeral of Pope John Paul II →  – Due to a discussion at Talk:Death and funeral of Pope Benedict XVI#"State funeral" or not?, it was noted that the fact the funeral of John Paul II was a state funeral was dubious. Therefore, I open a debate here about this artocle (about John Paul II).
Pinging former participants . Veverve (talk) 04:18, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

text: this RM is only intended to discuss this article, not the one about Benedict XVI. Sorry if I was not clear enough. Veverve (talk) 04:45, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Oops, my boo boo. Got confused with Benny Sixteen. GoodDay (talk) 04:50, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

text: I don't know if it was called a state funeral or not. Maybe it wasn't called such, as the popes since the 1970's turned away from regal habits. Like giving up the papal tiara & coronation mass. Pope Francis chose to wear 'only' white, when making his first public appearance. Something that hasn't been done in centuries. GoodDay (talk) 05:03, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

text: It shouldn't be assumed that all incumbent or former heads of state (and/or government) had or will have state funerals. A handful of these individuals do not have "state funeral" in their article title: Death and funeral of Bhumibol Adulyadej and Death and funeral of Mikhail Gorbachev, for example. Estar8806 (talk) 05:05, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

text: I do not understand your argument (unless it is "Elisabeth II got a state funeral, therefore John Paul II also did"). Not all funerals of heads of state are deemed state funerals (see Estar8806's comment above). Veverve (talk) 04:23, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  I do not follow your current opposing vote, as it seems contradictory with your new, current rationale. Veverve (talk) 04:40, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: If you looked at  Talk:Death and state funeral of Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani#Requested move 25 September 2022, the consensus was that the articles are rare, and when they happen its a notable event, while funerals are a typical event, everyone will get it at one point in there life.`~HelpingWorld~` (👽🛸) 04:48, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have a hard time understanding what you are trying to convey. What is your argument to state that JPII's funeral was indeed a state funeral? Veverve (talk) 04:51, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I am stating that the article should not be moved, since his funeral was a state funeral.`~HelpingWorld~` (👽🛸) 05:13, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: What is your argument to support that it is a state funeral, then? Veverve (talk) 06:10, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I coudldnt find anything that says that pope john had a state funeral, changed my vote.`~HelpingWorld~` (👽🛸) 15:35, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

text: @GoodDay From my previous research, yes. Veverve (talk) 08:21, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 7 January 2023 

message: *Neutral - Benedict XVI was (2005–13) a head of state & government. GoodDay (talk) 04:43, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: State funeral makes sense, because he was a head of state & government, from 2005 to 2013. Funeral makes sense, because he didn't die in office. GoodDay (talk) 04:43, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: this RM is only intended to discuss this article, not the one about Benedict XVI. Sorry if I was not clear enough. Veverve (talk) 04:45, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Oops, my boo boo. Got confused with Benny Sixteen. GoodDay (talk) 04:50, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

text: I don't know if it was called a state funeral or not. Maybe it wasn't called such, as the popes since the 1970's turned away from regal habits. Like giving up the papal tiara & coronation mass. Pope Francis chose to wear 'only' white, when making his first public appearance. Something that hasn't been done in centuries. GoodDay (talk) 05:03, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

text: It shouldn't be assumed that all incumbent or former heads of state (and/or government) had or will have state funerals. A handful of these individuals do not have "state funeral" in their article title: Death and funeral of Bhumibol Adulyadej and Death and funeral of Mikhail Gorbachev, for example. Estar8806 (talk) 05:05, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

text: I do not understand your argument (unless it is "Elisabeth II got a state funeral, therefore John Paul II also did"). Not all funerals of heads of state are deemed state funerals (see Estar8806's comment above). Veverve (talk) 04:23, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  I do not follow your current opposing vote, as it seems contradictory with your new, current rationale. Veverve (talk) 04:40, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: If you looked at  Talk:Death and state funeral of Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani#Requested move 25 September 2022, the consensus was that the articles are rare, and when they happen its a notable event, while funerals are a typical event, everyone will get it at one point in there life.`~HelpingWorld~` (👽🛸) 04:48, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have a hard time understanding what you are trying to convey. What is your argument to state that JPII's funeral was indeed a state funeral? Veverve (talk) 04:51, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I am stating that the article should not be moved, since his funeral was a state funeral.`~HelpingWorld~` (👽🛸) 05:13, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: What is your argument to support that it is a state funeral, then? Veverve (talk) 06:10, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I coudldnt find anything that says that pope john had a state funeral, changed my vote.`~HelpingWorld~` (👽🛸) 15:35, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

text: @GoodDay From my previous research, yes. Veverve (talk) 08:21, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion