Talk:Atmospheric electricity

message: 13:16, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

message: I think the part discussing the conductivity of the atmosphere needs modification.  It makes an unqualified assertion that conductivity increases exponentially with altitude.  This may be true within a certain distance regime, however it is not true in general.  Those who work with vacuum systems are aware that there is a range of pressures in which the atmosphere is especially easy to ionize.  I believe that it is the onset of this pressure range that corresponds to the exponential increase with altitude.  
However, past some altitude the atmosphere will be so rarefied that the conductivity will again drop -- a vacuum is not a good conductor.  Another point is that there is no upper bound to the atmosphere.  The density of the gas drops exponentially but never reaches zero.
I don't have time to make changes, but hopefully this feedback is useful to someone.
Justin Hannigan
: I'll try to work that in, if i can. Thanks for the information. J. D. Redding 23:50, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right. It is incorrect that the conductivity of the atmosphere increases exponentially with altitude, so I've removed that text. Marconi sparks (talk) 18:36, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

text: Source: United States Patent Office classification system - Classification Definitions, June 30, 2000.
;Patents related to atmospheric electricity 
American
* Vion, , "Improved method of using atmospheric electricity", June 1860.
* Ward, , "Improvement in collecting electricity for telegraphing", using towers to collect atmospheric electricity, April 1872.
* Loomis, , "Improvement in telegraphing" "without the aid of wires or artificial batteries", Jul. 1872. 
* Palencsar, , "Apparatus for collecting atmospheric electricity" using a balloon, May 1901.
* Pennock, , "Apparatus for collecting atmospheric electricity",  using one or more balloons, Feb. 1909.
* Pennock, , "Apparatus for collecting electrical energy", Jan. 1912.
* Plauson, , "Conversion of atmospheric electric energy". Jun. 1925.
* Britten, , "Radio apparatus" "to economize and conserve the current, and to regulate and clarify the tone", Oct. 31, 1931.
* Crump, , "Powering electrical devices with energy attracted from the atmosphere" using transistor circuits, Nov. 12, 1957.
* Ruhnke, , "Apparatus for detecting changes in the atmospheric electric field", Sep. 1966.
* Smith, , "Ionospheric battery", March, 1962.
* Kasemir, , "Electric field meter having a pair of rotating electrodes", Jul. 1969.
* Winn, et al., , " Electrical field sensing and transmitting apparatus", May. 1977.
* Colombo, et al., , " Satellite connected by means of a long (100 km) tether to a powered spacecraft", Jun. 1978. 
* Carpenter, Jr., , " System and equipment for atmospherics conditioning", Dec. 1979.
* Shoulders,  , " Energy conversion using high charge density", May 1991 . 
* Shoulders,  , " Energy conversion using high charge density", Jun. 1992. 
* Mims, , " Assembly for the induction of lightning into a superconducting magnetic energy storage system", Nov. 1994.
Other
* Traun's Forschungs laboratorium, GB157263
J. D. Redding 18:35, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: modification

message: In the United States Patent Office classification, the main classification is 310/308 Electrical Generator or Motor / Charge accumulating. Other applicable classes regarding atmospheric electricity include: 
*307/149 Electrical Transmission or interconnection systems / Miscellaneous Systems
*320/166 Electricity: Battery of Capacitor Charging or Discharging / Capacitor Charging or Discharging
*361/212 Electricity: Electrical Systems and Devices / Discharging or Preventing accumulation of Electric Charge(e.g., Static Electricity)
*174/6 Electricity: Conductors and Insulators / Earth Grounds
*174/2 Electricity:  Conductors and Insulators / Lightning Protection 
:Source: United States Patent Office classification system - Classification Definitions, June 30, 2000.
;Patents related to atmospheric electricity 
American
* Vion, , "Improved method of using atmospheric electricity", June 1860.
* Ward, , "Improvement in collecting electricity for telegraphing", using towers to collect atmospheric electricity, April 1872.
* Loomis, , "Improvement in telegraphing" "without the aid of wires or artificial batteries", Jul. 1872. 
* Palencsar, , "Apparatus for collecting atmospheric electricity" using a balloon, May 1901.
* Pennock, , "Apparatus for collecting atmospheric electricity",  using one or more balloons, Feb. 1909.
* Pennock, , "Apparatus for collecting electrical energy", Jan. 1912.
* Plauson, , "Conversion of atmospheric electric energy". Jun. 1925.
* Britten, , "Radio apparatus" "to economize and conserve the current, and to regulate and clarify the tone", Oct. 31, 1931.
* Crump, , "Powering electrical devices with energy attracted from the atmosphere" using transistor circuits, Nov. 12, 1957.
* Ruhnke, , "Apparatus for detecting changes in the atmospheric electric field", Sep. 1966.
* Smith, , "Ionospheric battery", March, 1962.
* Kasemir, , "Electric field meter having a pair of rotating electrodes", Jul. 1969.
* Winn, et al., , " Electrical field sensing and transmitting apparatus", May. 1977.
* Colombo, et al., , " Satellite connected by means of a long (100 km) tether to a powered spacecraft", Jun. 1978. 
* Carpenter, Jr., , " System and equipment for atmospherics conditioning", Dec. 1979.
* Shoulders,  , " Energy conversion using high charge density", May 1991 . 
* Shoulders,  , " Energy conversion using high charge density", Jun. 1992. 
* Mims, , " Assembly for the induction of lightning into a superconducting magnetic energy storage system", Nov. 1994.
Other
* Traun's Forschungs laboratorium, GB157263
J. D. Redding 18:35, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Patents

message: A real 18th century flavor to the descriptions here...needs a rewrite. I don't think "atmospheric electricity" is a very modern classification at all, and we have a lot of really elderly creaky references here. --Wtshymanski (talk) 01:10, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Any particular "obsolete" 19th century knowledge, should be noted for historical purposes. Please, also, provide referenced sources for that which makes it obsolete. --J. D. Redding 15:59, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

text: I've taken a hatchet to bits of this article, but there's still lots left to be checked and updated. Don't make me do all of it! --Heron (talk) 21:16, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

text: I've had a good old go at it, still a lot to do but hopefully it's better now. Marconi sparks (talk) 18:35, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Rewrite needed

message: That doesn't sound right... If it was like that, wouldn't an exposed wire about a metre long hanging vertically shock anyone that touch it?  --TiagoTiago (talk) 14:40, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: No, because as a good conductor, there will be no potential difference between the ends. The presence of a good conductor in an electric field distorts the field pattern. The figure quoted is in the absence of any conducting element. —BillC talk 16:38, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  100 Volts per Metre?! 

message: Heron and Centzon removal of information. Compare here. --J. D. Redding 02:43, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Heron / Centzon edits 

message: It is thought that with sufficient experience the formulas that have been deduced here, and illustrated, can be made to yield other valuable data regarding the atomic and subatomic activities which are concerned in the variations of the fundamental terms and their very numerous derivatives.[36]
What formulas? Illustrated? Where?  Weaselly?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.130.27.187 (talk) 09:33, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Variations 

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message: Hello, I'm just leaving this note here for a bit before I change anything, I'm planning to add a couple of citations to the Lead, Description, Near Space, and Earth-Ionosphere Cavity sections of this article.  I will also add a comment on the fact that the term atmospheric electricity has a long history to the lead, since this article has a sizeable section on the history which isn't mentioned in the lead.  I'm also planning to add some clarification to the lead and description section regarding the 100V/m number, since I see that there's been some discussion of it on this talk page in the past and I found another citation that gives the same number and explains it a bit.
Smith4e4 (talk) 18:15, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edits and Citations