Talk:List of people who have been considered deities/Archive 2

message: Prem Rawat's father Hans_Ji_Maharaj did clearly claim to have all the qualities of a purna avatar and hence can be listed here. Hans said in 1966 
:"Lord Rama was an incarnation of God who possessed fourteen types of divine power. Lord Krishna was an incarnation of God who possessed twentysix types of divine power. But I am fully perfect and the master of all the sixtyfour divine powers."  
(translated from Dutch to English by user:Andries) in Dr. Reender Kranenborg's  Oosterse Geloofsbewegingen in het Westen/Eastern faith movements in the West  (Dutch langauge) who quotes from Jeanne Messer The New religious consciousness by C.Y. Glock and R.N. Bellah (Berkeley, 1976) pages 59, 60 Andries 18:46, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not see why Hans Ji Maharaj needs to stand alone. There are hundreds of Gurus in India that have claimed ort claim similar powers . Divine power is part and parcel of the role of a guru, and in the Hindu context perfectly acceptable. Read Guru. If we list Hans Ji Maharaj, we need to list hundred others. --Zappaz 19:47, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Hans Ji Maharaj]]

message: I propose the article be moved to List of human deities. --Alterego 19:38, July 12, 2005 (UTC)
:"Human deities" does not work for me. I propose List of people of divine or godly status --≈ jossi ≈ 19:59, July 12, 2005 (UTC)
::Could you explain why it doesn't work? It is a correlary to both List of deities and List of fictional deities. I also reasoned at length above regarding why the word divine is incorrect for the article. The adjective godly has the same faults. From the OED: Of or pertaining to God; coming from God; divine; spiritual, and Devoutly observant of the laws of God; religious, pious.. Clearly, being divine and godly does not mean one is a god. A human deity is clearly and unambiguously one who has the rank of a god while also being afflicted with the human condition. It has the added benefit of declaring the innate assumption that the subjects actually are human deities, something essential for the article to achieve NPOV. Lastly, I see absolutely no inherent connotations negative or otherwise with the wording. --Alterego 20:08, July 12, 2005 (UTC)
:::I see... So, would you be changing as well the criteria for inclusion? The reason I proposed List of people of divine or godly status  is because that is what is written in the "criteria for inclusion" paragraph:
::::Criteria for inclusion in this list:
::::*a notable living person that has proclaimed themself to be of divine or godly status or repute;
:::: ≈ jossi ≈ 03:59, July 13, 2005 (UTC)
:::::I believe Zappaz wrote that sentence specifically (or it is an amalgamation perhaps). In the same discussion above a complete rewrite of the intro to reflect the definition of the article is suggested, which I plan to implement (although others are certainly welcome). Some key points that I feel should be considered in the revamped form of this article: 1) absolutely no uses of the word claim or its variants 2) sparse and careful usage of the word divinity throughought, and not as a criteria for inclusion 3) a more precise explanation of the meaning the list has in different cultures 4) there is an exacting citation for every single entrant. I have been working on this methodically, starting with the citations, then I will move to the introductory text, and finally the article title. Of course, help would be very welcomed =) Otherwise it will likely be a month or more before I get to the final stage. Zappaz, any comments on this one? --Alterego 01:24, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
::::::Thanks for asking. I think that the article is evolving nicely, and I will welcome any attempt to NPOV its content and purpose. The process that you are proposing seems sensible, and at each step we can assess progress. I would propose to get started with a new intro. Maybe you can take the first stab at it here in the talk page and see who jumps in the fray to help with it. --Zappaz 02:48, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of human deities