Talk:List of disasters in Australia by death toll

message: Would somebody care to check the accuracy of my recent revamp to this article. I did my best to give the article a lift by making use of the pretty table template. Once any errors are removed or corrected I feel this page is worthy for submission to Wikipedia:Featured list candidates. -- Longhair | Talk 11:05, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Featured list?

message: Are massacres the same things as disasers?--nixie 23:19, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Speaking of massacres of the indigenous peoples of Australia, an Australian editor has just written some terrific articles on a few of the more notorious.--Cyberjunkie | Talk 16:35, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I find it odd that there is only 1 massacre of Aborigines in the 100+ section and no mention of the major epidemics which hit the Aborigine's in the 18th century. I have heard figures of up to 300,000 deaths for the epidemics from respected Australian historians and it seems rather odd not to have those included in this list or for that matter the many large massacres of Aborigines.--Senor Freebie (talk) 03:18, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not saying such massacres are insignificant but we are talking hundreds and there is the point that many are "alledged" rather than proven historical events. We also have the problem that while Australians know they happened you would be hard pressed to find any who can name one, the word "significant" in the case of this article I assume means incidents that many can name. You can find the article here: List of massacres of Indigenous Australians. I would have no problem with adding the deaths in epidemics as long as it is done carefully to avoid objections. If I get time after the weekend I will look at adding it myself. Wayne (talk) 06:13, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I had a bit of a think about it and added mention in the lead. It can probably be improved but see what you think. Wayne (talk) 06:34, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Another interesting point is the bias shown towards Aboriginal Australians by classing individual massacres as unique incidents while classing some events as singular that occured over a year or more across the entire continent, affecting and killing Australians in most corners of the country. If a heat wave across a few states can be classed as a single disaster couldn't a policy of hunting and killing aborigines for theft of cattle also be classed as a single disaster? It certainly would've been for some tribes!--Senor Freebie (talk) 14:05, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That is another reason inclusion would be difficult. Some were likely exaggerated and some were probably covered up. Documentation is iffy in many cases so we will have disputes. At least mention in the lead indicates importance and interested readers are directed to the relevant pages where they can see for themselves. Wayne (talk) 14:53, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I guess you are right. The closest thing we could get for a 'total' for massacres of Aborigines is estimates from historians who use vague figures like population estimates compared with later population statistics.--Senor Freebie (talk) 13:43, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Massacres 

message: On the issue of numbers, while 3  or 4 dead is, on a global scale small potatoes, in Australia it is a significant number, especially before, say, 1960. The other thing is, perhaps we should consider similar lists/tables of damage estimates or casualties (dead and injured). As for slaughter of indegenous people, I think a seperate table may be appropriate, with link(s), as the numbers tend to be seriously disputed formost of these events. Alex Law 00:19, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe the heading "10 or fewer deaths" should be "Other notable disasters with 10 or fewer deaths". After all, there are numerous road  accidents each year resulting in 3 or 4 deaths. It would become an extraordinarily long list if they were all included. GK1 14:06, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I'm inclined to agree, especially as someone has added a 'disaster' with a death toll of 1. It was a tragic accident, but whether it rates as a 'disaster' is highly debatable. BrianFG 03:34, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, I would not be inclined to list disasters with fewer than five fatalities.  Maintaining such a list would be a chore.Kransky 13:51, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: True, but I think particularly newsworthy incidents and accidents like the Burnley tunnel fire and the Sydney Harbour ferry crash of this current week warrant inclusion simply because they are newsworthy. BrianFG 06:26, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The risk with this argument is that we would put a greater value on more recent events than earlier events, which may have a greater death-toll but which was without the press coverage.Kransky 01:02, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: True also, and worthy of consideration. Perhaps we should make a lower limit of 5 fatalities? I think we need some consensus on this as we now have the Melbourne shooting on the list. A tragedy, yes, but a disaster? With all due respect to the victims, that's stretching the definition a little I think. BrianFG 01:02, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

text: 15 years later nobody remembers  the Burnley tunnel fire and the Sydney Harbour ferry crash. Furthermore, why should memorability be a criterion?  Make it simple, manageable and equitable by applying a cut off (10 deaths sounds appropriate). Kransky (talk) 02:58, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Numbers of dead 

message: this is a fascinating list! :) pfctdayelise 22:22, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Call me morbid, but 

message: Can anyone supply information about "Black Monday", noted by Brewer as: "February 27th, 1865, was so called in Melbourne from a terrible sirocco from the N.N.W., which produced dreadful havoc between Sandhurst and Castlemaine." ?? TIA --mervyn 11:26, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Best I can find at the moment is the below from  which confirms the date but not the extent of the disaster. I reckon this one needs a newspaper check by a Melbournian.- Peripitus (Talk) 09:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Black Monday 1865 

message: Sould the death toll for this diaster be 94 or 96. Although 94 miners died in the explosion, two rescuers perished, taking the total to 96. See Mt Kembla Disaster. If anyone thinks it needs to be changed; that makes two of us. Do it. -- Abishai | Talk 13:45, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mount kembla Mine Disaster 

message: What about that boat on its way to Australia that sunk off the coast of Western Australia in 2003 in which 450 refugees perished? Does that qualify as an Australian disaster - given that the refugees were on the way to Australia - and also, that Australia was the only country with any possible capability to help these victims? I believe it was the SIEV-X or something like that. jkm 05:54, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, because it took place outside Australia.  Kransky 13:47, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  What about the [[SIEV-X]]? 

message: Are you sure that Jayant Patel should be on the list at the moment? I am a little worried that it may cause legal issues if he does come to trial.  Bsfairman 11:20, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I tend to agree. Until he's found guilty and sentenced, this should not be included. BrianFG 00:54, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Medical Malpractice 

message: To make both tables consist with each other, I edited the main table to match the bottom one by changing the details in the "Disaster" column to reflect the type of disaster, and moving the name and other details into the notes field. Some of the types I've defined might be fairly argued as they are purely subjective but I've tried to differentiate between shipwrecks as ships that run aground or sink close to shore and sinkings where the ship sinks outright or out to sea, plus massacre as more than 5 deaths as opposed to mass murder of 5 or less. Feel free to disagree or discuss! BrianFG 10:17, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tidy-up for consistency 

message: Are "438" and "437" the same event? DH85868993 14:09, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes it looks like they could be. I'll fix it by combining them. BrianFG 23:17, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, BrianFG. How should we handle the fact that one reference says 437 and the other says 438? DH85868993 02:53, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually I just followed the reference quoted for that entry and found that the second one mentions a heatwave in Victoria in 1939 that killed the same number as that in 1896. So perhaps whoever compiled that list has the numbers wrong. If the death tolls were so similar, it would be easy enough to make such a mistake. I've decided to add that heatwave as well.BrianFG 04:26, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: On second thought, I think the original entry was two separate events, but both had been put in with the same date. Whatever, it's fixed now. BrianFG 04:39, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Duplicate? 

message: BTW, what about the James Hardie fiasco? Are there figures available for that? That would count as one of Australia's worst industrial disasters wouldn't it? Gatoclass 05:26, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would agree there, especially with regard to how this list is defined. If someone could dig up some figures I'd agree to its inclusion. --BrianFG 08:27, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: James Hardie

message: A shipwreck isn't a disaster - a shipwreck is the remains of a ship.  I suggest all disasters classified as "shipwrecks" be reclassified as "maritime accident" or something similar. Kransky (talk) 04:10, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: According to shipwreck, "A shipwreck or sunken ship can refer to the remains of a wrecked ship or to the event that caused the wreck, such as the striking of something that causes the ship to sink, the stranding of the ship on rocks, land or shoal, or the destruction of the ship at sea by violent weather". I checked that before I came up with the category, but I'm willing to discuss further. --BrianFG (talk) 11:22, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Shipwreck

message: We are wasting a lot of space to accomodate a few photos.  Can we insert them within the respective cells, or move them to the bottom perhaps ?Kransky (talk) 09:32, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree.  It looks awful being squished up because of the pics.  I'll have a go at moving them to the bottom of each section.  –Moondyne 13:15, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Move the photos

message: Hi, 
Just letting you know you've missed serial killers David and Catherine Birnie and their victims (4+)
58.109.27.212 (talk) 07:46, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Birnie - serial killers 

message: As other serial killings are included here, the murder of three women by Eddie Leonski AKA "The Brownout Strangler", in Melbourne, 1942,  should also be cited. redcountess (talk) 00:59, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: We can't include all serial killings. The list is limited to those of "special" Australia wide significance. Personally I feel those murders in the article with less than 5 deaths is pushing it a bit in regards to significance. Wayne (talk) 09:43, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I tend to agree. BrianFG (talk) 14:38, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Brownout Murders

message: I believe the figure of 410 dead given for the Bathurst Bay cyclone of 1899 is too high.  It has frequently been inflated in published accounts by excitable journalists.  The Register of Deaths at the Cooktown courthouse records 239 people - individually, by name - as having died on 5 March 1899.  Most were employees of the pearling fleet, and the deaths were notified by their employers, who knew exactly who was dead and missing.  I believe this is likely to be a very accurate figure, and I have seen no comparably accurate source given for any of the higher figures.  It's still a very big number.  Peter Bell (talk) 22:24, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bathurst Bay Cyclone 

message: The link to the Wikipedia page is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberia_Airlines_Flight_062
Someone has listed this accident on the main page as a death of 2 Australians, rather than 1. Could someone please clarify?
Thank you. (Eug.galeotti (talk) 15:20, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Death of 1 Australian aboard Flight 062 of Iberian Airlines, 1967 

message: I don't think this should be included in the list. While there were many Australians killed in this event, it wasn't in Australia.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.253.152.215 (talk) 13:24, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The Bali bombing is in a separate list - specifically for events including Australians but outside Australia - from what I can tell it was like this when you posted the comment too. -- Chuq (talk) 02:52, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bali Bombings- not in Australia 

message: I just found out about an 1872 massacre of 80ish Pacific Islanders in Australia, yet there's no information about it on this page. Anyone take any interest?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.233.220.102 (talk) 05:47, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Carl Massacre 

message: I think the WW2 attacks on Australia should be mentioned here, something like 3 thousand + people died during the Battle for Australia in air raid bombings and such.--Collingwood26 (talk) 10:23, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  WW2 

message: 13 Cub Scouts drowned returning to Grafton from a Christmas picnic on December 11, 1943.
http://monumentaustralia.org.au/themes/culture/social/display/97855-cub-scout-drowning-memorial-tablet  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.166.162.254 (talk) 13:26, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Susan Island drownings 

message: An 'air accident'? I think i'll go ahead and change that. 124.171.187.110 (talk) 09:21, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: A tricky one. Nobody was actually claiming a war was in progress.  The Dutch air accident report attributed the downing to a surface to air missile.  I believe the downing was accidental, but I do not think the term "air accident" is accurate (the missile hit the plane; the plane did not hit the missile).  Shall we call it as it is - "missile strike"? Kransky (talk) 09:46, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  MH17 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title: Assessment comment

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: An IP has recently tried to remove the entry for the 2009 heatwave that claims to have killed 374 people. While one of the cited links is dead, the other (from The Age) is available. The edit summary was "There is no proof in any citation quoted that there were any deaths associated with the supposed event; and clearly not the level of death espoused."
While I reinstated the entry on the strength of The Age article, the IP has a good point that is worth discussing. Heatwaves (and cold snaps) do kill people, but, unlike a lot of other tragic events, do not do so in a way that results in an unambiguous "death by heat wave" on their death certificates. Generally those who die during times of extreme weather are usually elderly and with serious illnesses already and the extreme weather just pushes them over the edge, "bringing forward" their deaths rather than being the root cause of their death. See Heat wave#Mortality for more on the topic. The Age article explains some of this and that the death toll of 374 is a statistical measure obtained by comparing the death rate during the heatwave with death rates in previous years for the same period.
Are we comfortable with this kind of entry that require a statistical approach to counting the dead, as opposed to being able to list a group of victims? Or should we make it clearer in the entry that this is a statistical estimate and not 374 specific dead people? Kerry (talk) 13:31, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  2009 deaths by heatwave 

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 07:42, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 20 external links on List of disasters in Australia by death toll. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 00:40, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 58 external links on List of disasters in Australia by death toll. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I have been struggling to find a singular reference for how many Aboriginals died during the Smallpox Outbreak. 
If you take into consideration the estimated population of Indigenous People upon Colonisation being anywhere from approximately 318,000–750,000 and the estimated mortality rate during said Outbreak being 50% at the lowest and potentially upwards of 70%.
Wouldn't this Outbreak be the largest loss of life in Australian History? 
50% of 318,000-750,000 that's anywhere from 159,000 to 375,000 people. Tarkone (talk) 23:57, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: The 50% to 70% death toll was for the Sydney area only in 1879, not the continent. Smallpox outbreaks were episodic - the next most significant was 1829-1831, with two further in 1858 and 1869. The figures "159,000 to 375,000" are unsupportable. Hiscock's Archaeology of Ancient Australia is worth a look. John beta (talk) 01:00, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Smallpox Outbreak 

message: How can the section Significant incidents of Australians being killed overseas logically fit into this article, which has the words "in Australia" in the title? Is a separate article needed perhaps?
And the word "overseas" bothers me too. It's a particularly Australian way of looking at the world. Most countries don't refer to the part of the world outside their borders as overseas. This IS meant to be a global encyclopaedia. HiLo48 (talk) 01:15, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  A logic problem (And a language one) 

message: I sort of heard it on a radio hourly news break, and there's a pay to view link on the Australian, but all I can find in Trove is an article where bodies and wreckage were found, (post 20th, not early in the month) so needs to be listed ?, and what's in Brisbane today if it's found ? Dave Rave (talk) 00:03, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  air crash near Brisbane