Talk:Gilgamesh in the Outback

message: First:
Gilgamesh in the Outback is a science fiction novella by Robert Silverberg, and part of Janet Morris's shared-universe series Heroes in Hell. It won the Hugo Award for Best Novella in 1987 and was also nominated for the Nebula Award for Best Novella in 1986.[1][2] Originally published in Asimov's Science Fiction[3][4], it was then printed in Rebels in Hell[5] before being incorporated into Silverberg's novel To the Land of the Living.
Second:
Robert Silverberg wrote that he was "drawn into" writing a story for for the "Heroes in Hell" project. While he remembered that the central concept of the series was "never clearly explained" to him, he noted the similarity of "Heroes in Hell" to Philip Jose Farmer's Riverworld works, and decided "to run my own variant on what Farmer had done a couple of decades earlier." After writing "Gilgamesh in the Outback," he decided that, since the story "was all so much fun," to write two sequels, "The Fascination of the Abomination" and "Gilgamesh in Uruk." In writing those stories, as Silverberg recalled, he "never read many of the other 'Heroes in Hell' stories", and had "no idea" of how consistent his work was with that of his "putative collaborators"; instead, he had "gone his own way . . . with only the most tangential links to what others had invented."[6]
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.101.127.139  (talk • contribs) 11:59, 26 August 2011
:To your First statement: correct
:To your Second statement: correct (but not complete)
:The other two stories, "Abomination" and "Uruk" were published in the Heroes in Hell series before Silverberg decided to combine them into a novel (with some significant rewriting) in 1988 and 1989.
:What exactly do you expect us to do when a long-time, experienced WP editor is deliberately, purposefully manipulating information to rewrite history and turn simple fact into a fairy story that makes him happy? "External Links" are demanded - so we add them.  "Citations" are demanded - so we add them.  We use HIS sources to refute his assertions and they are erased because they do not agree with the original assertions - by other editors who obviously do NOT go read the cited "sources" and look only at what was originally posted on the story page.  It appears that no matter what we do, the truth is the victim here.  I was actually told by another editor: "WP is about verifiability, not about Truth."  Well, I guess that says it all, doesn't it? Hulcys930 (talk) 04:16, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Does this look as stupid to everyone else as it does to me? 

message: 2nd paragraph, first line, remove the repeated word "for"
-- 98.218.161.68 (talk) 00:35, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. - Dravecky (talk) 13:26, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request from 98.218.161.68, 9 September 2011 

message: The article starts with the words 'Gilgamesh in the Outback is a science fiction novella'. I believe that the story is around ten thousand words, which would make it a short story according to the SFWA definitions. There is also the issue of Genre. Technically Gilgamesh in the Outback is a Bangsian Fantasy. A careful read of it will show that it has none of the trappings usually associated with Science Fiction stories.
Since the awards it won, and was nominated for are awards that are associated with SFWA, and since it is self evidently a Bangsian Fantasy, I would suggest changing the wording to 'Gilgamesh in the Outback is a Bangsian Fantasy short story'.
Sorry if this sounds like minor quibbling, but I like getting the details right. Aspergers Syndrome you know. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 18:39, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: SFWA awarded it a Nebula as a novella (and it fit the WSFS definition of a novella for its Hugo Award win) so describing it as a short story would be neither prudent nor accurate. Saying it's a "Bangsian fantasy novella" (note capitalization) would be best. - Dravecky (talk) 19:22, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: This issue can be tended to after some consensus is established about Lifebaka's suggestion.Hulcys930 (talk) 19:41, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Right, the award was for novella. Sorry, suffering from Thanksgiving dinner overload, and I'm having problems thinking. Suspect I've gained twenty pounds. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 20:59, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Note that SFWA was founded as the Science Fiction Writers of America and then became the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America, but to remain using the same initials, is formally known as the Science-fiction and Fantasy Writers of America. Somewhere along the way fantasy writers joined the organization and then Nebulas were allowed to be awarded to science fiction or fantasy works. That Gilgamesh in the Outback won a Nebula doesn't mean it is necessarily fantasy or science fiction, just an award given by a fantasy and science fiction writers organization. I think there's a tiny disclaimer on the bottom of the lucite block that says "No genre categorization should be inferred by the receipt of this award." OK, I'm kidding about that. I'll go with "fantasy," though as best describing GITO.Dokzap (talk) 06:07, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, SFWA and the Nebula Awards covered fantasy from the beginning; the only change involved the name of the organization. There was a fantasy novelette nominated for the very first Nebulas, Leiber's "Four Ghosts in Hamlet"; the first fantasy novel to be nominated was Black Easter, in 1969; and Leiber's "Ill Met in Lankhmar" became the first fantasy to win a Nebula in 1971. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 18:54, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Definition of Story Type 

message: One other point. Looking at the state of the citations, I believe that we can now remove the 'This article needs additional citations for verification' tag. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 21:03, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Since no one has commented to the negative, I have removed the tag. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 10:58, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Refimprove|date=June 2011 Tag 

message: Since no one is talking about why they are changing the 'Country' designation and I'm not psychic, I'm having to guess. Is it possibly because when Gilgamesh in the Outback was published in book form by Silverberg in the novel 'To the Land of the Living' that it was originally publishing in the UK? Or am I missing something? UrbanTerrorist (talk) 21:22, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Country of first Publication - Gilgamesh in the Outback = United States | To the Land of the Living = United Kingdom 

message: The reference in the first paragraph that says 
:"After writing "Gilgamesh in the Outback," he decided that, since the story "was all so much fun," to write two sequels, "The Fascination of the Abomination" and "Gilgamesh in Uruk."  
The words "which were also published in the Heroes in Hell series" [or the names of the specific books] should be added immediately after "Uruk."   Otherwise it looks like he wrote the stories and they just sat on his desk until To the Land of the Living was created by merging the three stories. 
In the Infobox, the Publisher field needs to have "Baen Books" added since the story was published in Rebels in Hell from Baen.
Thank You.Hulcys930 (talk) 20:45, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request Edit of locked page 

message: The following is the actual summary of Gilgamesh in the Outback by Brian Thomsen, without any redacted words or phrases or selective editing:
:'"Gilgamesh in the Outback" by Robert Silverberg started out as the author's entry in the shared world anthology series entitled Heroes in Hell created by Janet and Chris Morris.  The story and its endearing supporting players that included Robert Howard and H.P. Lovecraft as well as the eponymous Sumerian himself in the afterlife went on to win a Hugo Award and inspired three more tales of Gilgamesh wandering through a landscape peopled with such historical luminaries as Prester John and Picasso on his way "to the land of the living," a destination that clearly resembles our world until he eventually winds up right back where he started in the Outback because even in the afterlife history repeats itself.'  (See refs)
The above obviously supports the contention that, according to Mr. Thomsen, Mr. Silverberg wrote the story for the Heroes in Hell series, specifically for Rebels in Hell and was printed in Asimov's Science Fiction,(See refs) as a "first sequel."  The neutral, chronological listing suggested by lifebaka simply indicating the story was published in Asimov's and Rebels in Hell should replace the present publishing history, without reference to "first serial" "originally published" or any other verbiage.
The inaccurate description text of the page which attempts to show the story as having been written independently of the shared world anthology, and then "reprinted" in 'Rebels in Hell' later, needs to be edited to reflect the truthful genesis of the story.
Refs:
::Thomsen, Brian; Greenberg, Martin H., eds (March 2006). Novel Ideas — Fantasy. New York, NY: DAW Books. pp. 1-2 (introductory material). ). 
::The Supernatural Index:A Listing of Fantasy, Supernatural, Occult, Weird, and Horror Anthologies, Mike Ashley & William G. Contento, Greenwood Press, 1995, p.507  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hulcys930 (talk • contribs) 20:51, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps you would care to explain for us, Ms Hulcy, how the existing language in the article, which I added, "writing a story for the "Heroes in Hell" project", in any way suggests that the story was not written for that project. You have been making this absurd argument, over and over, for months without ever explaining it, and it is hard to see it as anything other than utterly and completely divorced from reality. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 01:54, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brian Thomsen Description of "Gilgamesh in the Outback" supporting addition of Baen Books as publisher and inclusion in the Rebels in Hell entry