Talk:Geography of Israel

message: I am Wikifying this article by sections. If you feel I have erred in either style or substance (for instance, if my links change the meaning of a sentence), please correct whatever you find. However, please note that if I leapt to an errant conclusion based on the context, it is likely that other readers will do the same; I recommend changing the wording and not just the link.
As I find things that need attention by anyone with subject knowledge (which is definitely NOT me), I'll post them here. To wit:
Topo Section: Need to create separate articles or stubs for Mount Herman (done), Mount Meron and Cape Carmel. I did not create them because, unless they have content, they will be VfD'ed instantly for lack of hits. There may be alternative names for these features that could be linked, or other ways to phrase the article if the features are not notable.Kevin/Last1in 18:43, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[WP:MOS|Wikify]] 

message: Much has already been said. I think that the article is valid if fixed up properly. Currently, it seems more geography oriented but could have more history/bible references inserted to explain why the term settlement is the literal translation of the Hebrew 'hitnachlut' which does refer to the settling of any area (not only in 'disputed territories'). I reverted the redirect since the compromise of moving the contents to Geography of Israel was not even performed yet. I also added a merge template to make the move a bit more official and binding and copied this section to the destination talk page. --Shuki 17:26, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: (after conflict) Shuki, please do not revert before a different consensus is reached than the previous one. I have explained the concept with tons of references but to no avail. People remain confused about the concepts. I want to move on. Do me a favor this time. The discussions are old and closed. gidonb 17:33, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that this now belongs to the Geography of Israel. gidonb 17:33, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I also do not want to discuss this. Just continue editing whatever and please leave my redirect alone. It was according to the outcome of an old discussion. I usually have no issues with your edits. On the contrary. They are very good. gidonb 17:37, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The articles were already merged. I have transfered the text and inculded it in the article. gidonb 17:44, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested merge 

message: After I started the human geography section with the text from the other article and some data that was already there, who picks up the challenge and continues expending this part of the article? Most of the economic geography is missing, as is population geography, transportation, and more. gidonb 17:51, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Still missing in the article

message: Could someone knowledgeable check the average temperatures added by the IP, and convert the corresponding degrees Fahrenheit? Cheers, TewfikTalk 04:15, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You’re right. The management of Wiki are absolutely terrible! דולב חולב (talk) 23:38, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Climate 

message: WP:Good article usage is a survey of the language and style of Wikipedia editors in articles being reviewed for Good article nomination.  It will help make the experience of writing Good Articles as non-threatening and satisfying as possible if all the participating editors would take a moment to answer a few questions for us, in this section please.  The survey will end on April 30.
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At any point during this review, let us know if we recommend any edits, including markup, punctuation and language, that you feel don't fit with your writing style.  Thanks for your time. - Dan Dank55 (talk)(mistakes) 03:35, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Survey 

message: This article has been listed for over a month with no action. I am printing a copy out for review and will hopefully pass or fail it soon. Daniel Case (talk) 14:06, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reviewing for GA 

message: When I first gave this the once-over, I was impressed, as a former geography major. However, upon printing it out and reading through, I knew by the time I got done with the intro that it had serious issues.
The major one is the seriously flawed prose. There's repetitious wording, awkward phrasing, inconsistent use of abbreviations for units of measure, use of the wrong unit of measure for the situation (reservoir capacity is given in m³ and gallons, not cubic kilometers and feet), inconsistent use of British and American English, run-on sentences ... it's got all that. It will take more than a few fixes.
I also came to realize the article is incomplete ... we could have sections on the economic geography of Israel, the effect of the country's geography on its history (not an easy patch of land to defend).
I'll go through it later and copyedit, but the additional information will have to come from someone familiar with the subject. Daniel Case (talk) 13:26, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Failure

message: Gee, I fail it and an edit war breaks out. And that was another thing I was afraid of ... while this article did a good job trying to be apolitical about a very politicized subject, there were places it couldn't avoid that and had to deal with the issues better than it did. One of those places was, indeed, the status of the West Bank, and I would also point to Golan Heights ... the article somewhat contradictorily refers to it as a "de facto annexation per Israeli law". If a law is passed, it's de jure. And, reading the Golan Heights Law article, I see where the contradiction arose. Since Israel has indicated (according to Golan Heights) its willingness to return the land to Syria if, among other things, Syria agrees to pretty much all Israel's terms, including not using strategically valuable high ground to launch attacks on Israel, I don't think the article should be so glib in describing it that way. Especially when the Heights, if counted as part of Israel, have its highest mountain (But where do Israeli peakbaggers go to say they've bagged their country's highest peak? That might be indicative).
We really ought to have a Territorial evolution of Israel article to deal with this, and hatnote it from here.
I also noticed that the intro, prior to this edit war, was suspiciously similar to the intro of the onetime FA Geography of India. However that cleaned it up some. Daniel Case (talk) 21:15, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Other things

message: Hopefully we can solve this one in the same cooperative spirit as the issue above. User:Nickhh has suggested deleting Mt Hermon from the list of geographical features in this article, and there seems to be some substance in his suggestion: The coordinates given in the Mount Hermon article  place it inside the United Nations Disengagement Observer Force Zone, which is an area not under Israeli control. The southern slopes are inside the Israel-annexed zone though. Again according to the Mt Hermon article, an adjacent unnamed peak at 2,236 m is the highest elevation in Israel, not the 2,814 m Mt Hermon proper. I have updated the article accordingly. MeteorMaker (talk) 22:18, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, you're right. Most of Mt. Hermon is within Syria and Lebanon, including the highest peak. Still, given Hermon's importance in Israel, it deserves mention. It houses important military points, and serves as a very popular tourist site. okedem (talk) 05:14, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have no problem with highlighting in the lead the fact that Israel (illegally) occupies territory that does not belong to it. Perhaps we could build something in about how it's a nice day trip for tourists, and has important military facilities located there? Perhaps we could get some input from an editor who lives in the Golan Heights? --Nickhh (talk) 10:19, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I know some people enjoy saying the phrase "illegal occupation", but even saying it a million times doesn't make it correct. Egypt and Syria were in a military alliance to attack Israel. They were the aggressors, they launched the first acts of war. Israel's war was in self defense. Unfortunately for Syria, it lost, and lost the Golan. Boohoo. Now, Israel may return it the Syria in the future in a peace treaty, but that doesn't make the occupation of it illegal in any way. When a country tries to destroy another, as Syria tried in 1948 and 1967, it runs the risk of losing land. How else? A country can attack, and worst case - loses nothing? Aggression has a price. Trying to destroy your neighboring country has a price, and that price, in this case, was land. okedem (talk) 10:25, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:   Take it to your blog. --Nickhh (talk) 10:33, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yea, you're the one going on about "illegal occupation", not me. okedem (talk) 10:58, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Israel's occupation is not illegal. It is valid and consistent with the UN Charter. Chesdovi (talk) 23:25, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mt Hermon 

message: I'm looking for info about how Israel compares to British Palestine, Roman Palestine, the Kingdoms of Jerusalem, Judah & Israel as well as pre-Hebrew Canaan.  Also, are those all the incarnations?  Sceptik (talk) 04:30, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: also the Hasmonean and Herodian, which had semi-autonomy from Rome Helpfulguy101 (talk) 02:58, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comparison in dimensions to former Holy Land states? 

message: Since its not part of Israel proper:  --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 10:55, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Terms 

message: The - 1,368 ft. elevation in the Judean desert, is it in the West bank? --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 15:21, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Judean Desert 

message: This revert violates multiple policies and guidelines. To begin with, there are an abundance of sources that clearly say that the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, the Gaza Strip, and the Golan Heights were occupied in 1967 and remain occupied to this day. The usage of "disputed territory" is POV, it reflects the extreme minority view that these territories are not occupied and disregards the overwhelming majority of sources that say that it is. This is the chosen language of the right wing of the Israeli political spectrum, and it is not in compliance with NPOV to use it in the encyclopedia's narrative voice. Additionally, the repeated usage of the terms Judea and Samaria when referring to a territory violates WP:WESTBANK. This edit should be reverted. nableezy - 19:50, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Until this is resolved I am adding templates about neutrality and factual accuracy. nableezy - 19:52, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: While "disputed" is logically correct, the default term is "occupied". On the specific edit: yes, it should be reverted. --ElComandanteChe (talk) 22:24, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Reverted, tags removed. --ElComandanteChe (talk) 17:27, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, nableezy - 18:52, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  "disputed", "Judea and Samaria" and other such nonsense 

message: The section on Selected elevations lists a few places outside of Israel. One of the entries Mount Hermon, located in the Golan. As this article is supposedly about the geography of Israel, and not of Israel and the Israeli-occupied territories, it is necessary to stipulate that this elevation is in the occupied territories. Currently it simply says it is in the "Israeli controlled Golan Heights", whereas the correct term, as evidenced by the title of this article is "Israeli-occupied". Also, the Mount of Olives misleadingly says that it is located in Jerusalem, full stop. The Mount of Olives is also located outside of Israel, being in East Jerusalem, part of what is internationally recognized as occupied Palestinian territories. By removing the fact that this place is actually in occupied East Jerusalem, Wikipedia is tacitly endorsing the expansionist Israeli POV that "greater Jerusalem" is one unit that is part of Israel. This is an extreme minority viewpoint that Wikipedia cannot portray as fact. I am tagging the section until this is resolved. nableezy - 14:35, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Instead of taking political status into each and every point on the map (which would be justified in an article dealing with modern politics), why not rename the article? --ElComandanteChe (talk) 15:00, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

text: I agree.WP:NPOV requires that a minority view does not remain unchallenged.--Peter cohen (talk) 15:10, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: ElComandanteChe, I would be fine with a rename, though the article should still specify what is in Israel and what is in the occupied territories. nableezy - 15:28, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. We'd better see more opinions on rename before we go. Is there a procedure for that? --ElComandanteChe (talk) 12:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you, and WP:RM lays out the process. nableezy - 13:19, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  occupied vs controlled, location of Mount of Olives 

message: Gilabrand, in this edit, you re ad Mount Hermon and East Jerusalem to the Selected elevations section section with the edit summary "geography is about a physical place - take your politics somewhere else", what does this edit summary mean? Yes geography is about a physical place, this article being about Israel, neither Mount Hermon or East Jerusalem are in that place, so that was the reason for its removal, how does your edit summary justify its addition? how is this politics?, this is facts. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 14:33, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gilabrands edit  

message: This claim is false. Palestine as of May 1948 was defined as the mandated territory. --Frederico1234 (talk) 09:24, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Amended. Oncenawhile (talk) 09:08, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Prior to the establishment of the State of Israel, there was no clear-cut definition of the geographical and territorial limits of the area known as "Palestine."" 

message: Why does this article have "Political geography" section, administrative divisions are outside the scope of "Geography of" articles. Look at the "Geography of" articles in the Asia navbox at the bottom of the article. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 04:56, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll remove it. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 21:32, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  administrative divisions 

message: An incident occurred recently at template:Location map Israel, when user Sepsis II modified a long-standing version of Israeli map into "1949 borders" version without any discussion, suspiciously naming it :File:Neutral Israel location map.svg instead of :File:Israel location map.svg. Further, upon resulting edit-warring, an administrator protected that template, but perhaps mistakenly, without restoring the stable version prior to Sepsis II edits. Interestingly, there has already been a comprehensive discussion at Module_talk:Location_map/data/Syria, with an accepted solution regarding Syrian and Israeli map issues, but some editors apparently fail to acknowledge it. An administrator raised the issue at ANI, but there was not attention. There is a discussion going on to return to previous status quo before alleged system gaming by Sepsis II, but the undiscussed change shouldn't have happened in the first place. I invite editors to discuss the incident at ANI thread.GreyShark (dibra) 18:37, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Israeli location map incident

message: It says in the article that Israel "is bounded to the north by Lebanon, the northeast by Syria, the east by Jordan and the West Bank, and to the southwest by Egypt, with this border also being the border between Asia and Africa."
The border between Asia and Africa part is not correct. Israel shares no borders with Africa. The border in the southeast is with the Asian part of Egypt, the Sinai Peninsula, which is according to Wikipedia "the only part of Egyptian territory located in Asia as opposed to Africa, effectively serving as a land bridge between two continents." It is widely accepted that the border between Asia and Africa lies inside Egypt. Even the reference that follows that claim is not saying the border between Israel and Egypt is also the border between Asia and Africa. This claim contrasts many other pages and maps on Wikipedia in which Sinai is always is Asia and never in Africa. This claim should be removed. --Abtalion (talk) 08:00, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Border with Africa? 

message: I check pages listed in :Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of :Geography of Israel's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "CIA":
From Singapore: 
From West Bank: 
From Economy of Israel: "Economy of Israel" in CIA 2011 World Factbook, web:CIA-IS.
From Palestinian territories: Based on figures of the CIA World Factbook. The Factbook estimates the land area of Israel (excluding the Golan Heights) 20,330 square kilometer, the West Bank (including East Jerusalem, but excluding Mt. Scopus) 5,640 and the Gaza Strip 360.
From Geography of Afghanistan: Afghanistan, CIA World Factbook.
From Geography of India: 
From Geography of Hong Kong: "Hong Kong". The World Factbook. CIA. Retrieved 18 September 2009.
From Geography of Tajikistan: The World Factbook,Economy of Tajikistan
From Syria: 
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 21:53, 16 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orphaned references in [[:Geography of Israel]] 

message: There is a wideranging use of insonsistent terminology across many geographic articles connected to Israel, notably the use of 'hill' to refer to mountains, and capitalisation of topographic features where the standard is only to capitalise Geographic names.
The reason for bringing this up is that it is irrational, elevation being determined since ancient times by the terrain presenting obstacles to logistics of trade often requiring goods to be distributed from the coast to inland areas. These days it is even more impractical since even children now have use of GPS-enabled devices which are always callibrated to sea level. 
As an example, the 'walk' from the coast to Jerusalem is in fact a 53km climb to an altitude of over 770m, and is not literally for the faint hearted. Calling the various summits in Jerusalem 'hills' is therefore misinformation from both, historical and scientific perspectives. Please see what I suspect will turn into an edit conflict in the Mount Zion article. Crock81 (talk) 21:56, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inconsistent terminology 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Change "Ranked 147th" to "Ranked 150th" Wow323Talk•Stalk•Sign 18:46, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Done Abequinn14 (talk) 16:40, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 December 2018 

message: The koppen climate map is inaccurate, for example it shows parts of the Judean desert with a mediterranean climate (quite bizzare) and Tiberias as mediterranean while it is semi-arid (understandable), this map is more accurate (it includes the west bank and golan heights which can be edited away, the global koppen climate map from which the map here is taken shows the entirety of the west bank as mediterranean as well, while a simple check of the table at [Jericho] shows otherwise))
--89.139.215.64 (talk) 16:31, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: You’re right  דולב חולב (talk) 03:11, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inaccurate climate map 

message: Area: (1/3 of Srilanka) 46.31.101.31 (talk) 11:15, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:19, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 July 2021 

message: Which countries have maritime border with Israel in Gulf of Eilat?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.185.56.57 (talk) 12:59, 31 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Maritime border 

message: Which sector is the mgar in Israel 2405:204:22A1:B14F:0:0:244A:28A1 (talk) 18:44, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Search in location 

message: The Golan Heights as part of Israel are recognized by the US. I suggest it be changed to "not widely recognized" Helpfulguy101 (talk) 03:00, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Golan Heights in lead section 

message: u
 2A04:4A43:57DF:C6F9:0:0:330:5098 (talk) 22:47, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: 🇵🇹 Portugal is Mediterranean 2A04:4A43:57DF:C6F9:0:0:330:5098 (talk) 22:49, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 23:55, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 April 2023 

message: Another interesting point, is that Israel has the most southerly area in the northern hemisphere featuring a Mediterranean climate. דולב חולב (talk) 19:12, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Something you can add  

message: I think it’s a bit misleading.
there’s only one snow caped mountain (Mount Hermon), that covered with snow only in January, February and he’s in a disputed area. דולב חולב (talk) 21:48, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Description