Talk:Le Corbusier

message: Are there no appropriate images of Corbusier for this page?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.28.180.30 (talk) 00:51, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Image

message: We should include one of his most famous quotations, about a house being a machine for living in. -- Tarquin 17:15, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Look at the Wikipedia article Modernism. The section called "Modernism's reception and controversy" already has a reference to Le Corbusier's idea about houses being "machines for living in". Christopher Crossley 10:23, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Right, but it is an important thing that was said that is attributed to Le Corbusier.  The saying's relationship to Modernism comes from Le Corbusier. Markmtl 09:23, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Quote

message: I'm suprised not to see any images of Le Corbusier's plan for Paris.  To me it's one of his most shocking and notable (if brutal) plans.   --Quasipalm 19:52, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Paris plan

message: I would like to add external link of his biography available at World of Biography It includes his life, quotations, chronology, list of publication and few sketches. --Kbi911 13:54, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have added the link --Kbi911 09:28, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: World of Biography

message: Is there a reason why there is no mention that Le Corbusier was one of the designers of the UN HQ  in New York? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 141.117.1.149 (talk • contribs) .
:Yes, I'll add this now. The board of design consultants for the building, on which Le Corbusier served, selected one of his designs. jareha (comments) 07:03, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: United Nations headquarters

message: I was surprised to see that this category existed: Category:Architects who committed suicide.
It is possible to speculate that he walked into the waters knowingly (as the article says "against his doctor's orders") and therefore comitted suicide... what do you think? Include the category? --Blahm 01:28, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: According to Wikipedia:No original research, we are not to speculate. jareha (comments) 07:07, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Death

message: Hi, I would like to add an external link to the World of Biography entry (Le Corbusier Biography), probably the most famous portal of biography to this article. Does anybody have any objections? 17 Apr 2006 Raghuvir.
:No objections from me. jareha (comments) 07:09, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: World of Biography

message: Is there any reason why the image is aligned on the left, and the table of contents on the right?  In my opinion it looks very cock-eyed at 1280x1024, and only marginally less so at 800x600.  Most other biographical articles on Wikipedia do it the other way round, for good reasons I think.  --RobertG ♬ talk 09:50, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This has now been accounted for by recent changes: the image presumably on this page when you made the above comment since been deleted and I've moved the table of contents back to the left. jareha (comments) 06:37, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Intro format

message: Can anybody confirm what the name we all know him by, "Le Corbusier", actually is; is it a nickname, a pen-name, or what? Certainly some of his books are attributed to "the crow" as being the author, rather than to "C-E Jeanneret". Does it have any official status (name change by deed poll equivalent etc?). Since wikipedia is frequently referred to by those writing essays/etc, this might be a useful topic to have clarification of. Like how 'Bucky' (R B Fuller) always gets mistakenly surnamed as Buckminster-Fuller.
Graldensblud 14:00, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  His Name/the status thereof 

message: This article stresses technical criticisms of Le Corbusier's legacy, especially in the field of urban planning; what is missing is an assessment of his artistic achievement. Le Corbusier was a true polymath: he was a fount of original ideas in the cerebral spheres of construction and planning, as well as a tremendously creative sculptor of form. LC's early work was a pillar of early modernism, but his later works, like Beethoven's later quartets, transcend any stylistic categorisation. It is true that he erred, but it would have been surprising if otherwise, given the magnitude of his contributions. Any criticism of his ideas must bear in mind his fecundity and influence - in thought and in art. Tkeu 21:14, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. The article places far too much importance on urban planning, which is certainly a significant part of Le Corbusier's legacy, but not all of it. And it has been Le Corbusier's artistic side that has proved most enduring, even as his urban planning has been refuted. Demflan (talk) 02:24, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Genius?? If I was send to the past and given the choice to assassinate either Hitler or Corbussier, I would choose the latter. His designs and his school is a shore in the eye, a howl against good taste, an afrent against art... Le Corbussier's designs could only be improved with High Explosives. --80.31.59.250 (talk) 10:50, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I utterly agree with previous writer.  This repellent old fool, lacking all style and grace, sought as an envious Thersites to create a hideous New, and to malign those great masters who accomplished great architecture   ---  such as Garnier  ---  simply because he was empty. Claverhouse (talk) 11:27, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Genius 

message: This article does not begun to do justice to the range and breadth of Le Corbusier's work. In particular, something needs to be said about his later period, especially the Unite in Marseilles, the Ronchamp cathedral, and La Tourette monastery. It would also be useful to note his use of "beton brut" concrete and influence on Brutalism. There is also almost no mention of his work on Chandigarh, a project that occupied much of his postwar work and marked his most notable foray into monumentality. Finally, how does this article fail to mention the International Style even once?
On a different note, something should be said about Le Corbusier's politics in the 1930s. His involvement with the far right is well-documented. Demflan (talk) 02:11, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Politics and Late Works 

message: The above editor brings up an excellent point: The documentation in this article is extremely lacking. Whole sections make claims without footnotes, and "Forays into urbanism" has been marked as needing more citations since January 2007 -- well over a year. Surely enough has been written, in print and online, about an architect as prominent as Le Corbusier that the statements in this article can be backed up with verifiable, reliable sources. --69.22.254.108 (talk) 10:26, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Documentation

message: The influence section is little more than a single sustained attack, much of which focuses on the more general deleterious effects of suburban sprawl (of which he was hardly a proponent) rather than anything directly related to his work. It's also almost entirely unsourced, composed largely of original research, and repeatedly presents often subjective criticism of his work as hard fact; while notable examples of criticism (I think immediately of Jane Jacobs and Alison and Peter Smithson) ought to be noted, they must be presented as opinion, and their origin fully ascribed. As it stands, the section is an embarrassment to this encyclopaedia. It's a good job he's dead, because it would be a wholescale breach of WP:BLP86.0.203.120 (talk) 15:58, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree. I agree with many of the points made, but they are still inappropriate in this setting. It's highly subjective and does sound like a personal attack rather than a critique. Citations would improve this, as would more from the opposing POV. PurpleChez (talk) 20:37, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Influence

message: Sorry I can't put this on the reverter's user talk page which is semiprotected, but... please educate me, what's wrong with  this edit? 95.222.120.117 (talk) 13:32, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: First time I see this word, but I'd venture to guess "mononymous" describes a person with one name, in the sense that they go only by one name, such as: Madonna, Prince, etc...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.58.147.83 (talk) 10:10, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That's what the article says, yes. So how is "Le Corbusier" not like "Prince" or "Voltaire"? 95.222.120.117 (talk) 17:30, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure about the technicalities, but I would guess that the reverter counted "Le" as a word.Drew Smith What I've done 05:55, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Mononymity

message: Quote:  Some architectural historians claim that this pseudonym translates as "the crow-like one." ... with one reference given.
Like, what?  Le Corbusier bears some semblance to French "le corbeau" = "the raven".  So what?  This just seems to be some author's individual theory.  Maikel (talk) 12:59, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: The crow?

message: I'm recommending that page Fondation Le Corbusier be merged into this page due to a few concerns:
:The Fondation article reads more like an article about the museum, indicating that the museum should be the article
:The Fondation may not be independently notable
:I would support an article on the museum, but a quick perusal of this article seems to not even mention the museum, which would indicate that perhaps a section on the museum, with mentions to the fondation, should be written here first, then spun off if deemed appropriate.
Vulture19 (talk) 13:40, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Fine. I'll do it now since no one objects. The Sound and the Fury (talk) 12:58, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge discussion

message: The article states that a "Block of apartments built over the house [sic]", but it was not, or at least not as "built over the house" would normally imply. Villa Ternisien 1926 by Corbu (also known as "Maison Ternisien", "Maison des Artistes", or "Maison d'artiste") was mostly destroyed (only 3 exterior walls remained). In 1936, Architect Georges-Henri Pingusson's addition and re-construction of the structure was completed, which included a large apartment block on top, and an entirely new look on the previously darkly-coloured structure (Pingusson chose white). 
*If anyone would like to write an article on the structure itself, I have a 58-page pdf of plans, sections, elevations, paralines, models, photographs, and other information, which might or might not be useful.
*The American Wikipedia doesn't have an entry for Pingusson, but the French Wikipedia does, so more information on the architect is available there. Note that fr.wikipedia suggests that his iteration of Ternisien was from 1934; I believe that (based upon the sources below, and other research I've done), this is incorrect, and that it was finished in 1936, and rather that it was begun in 1934. Dating structures in architecture is an uncertain science, however, so many dates might all be the "correct" dates. Eg, Ternisien was begun in 1923, but the final design and construction was not until 1925-1926. 
Sources to check out:
"The Le Corbusier Guide" by Deborah Gans (Available on google's preview - Ternisien is on pp 69 of the document),
"The Villas of Le Corbusier and Pierre Jeanneret 1920-1930" by Tim Benton (Revised and Expanded Edition) (pp. 97-105)
"Birkhäuser architectural guide france 20th century" (My apologies for the lack of authorship - try this ISBN: 3-7643-6222-7. This one describes Pingusson's work)
ArchInform has some images, and a little bit of information (http://eng.archinform.net/projekte/1950.htm for Corbu's entry, and http://eng.archinform.net/projekte/9460.htm for Pingusson's) My Pillow of Wind (talk) 08:58, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Can people not delete things they don't like? The Sound and the Fury (talk) 01:47, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Villa Ternisien 

message: The frank gehry page has a separate page containing a list of his works in grid format. Is this something that should extend to other famous architects just like a discography page?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Donald.smith2060 (talk • contribs) 23:26, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  works page for architects 

message: This article states in the opening paragraph that Le Corbusier worked on "several buildings in South America". But, the Curutchet House is identified in its article as the only work in that subcontinent. Which is correct? --Polymeris (talk) 21:57, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Work(s) in South America 

message: One of the works listed:
Las Nubes, house of Uruguayan novelist Enrique Amorim (Salto, Uruguay)
is not the work of Le Corbusier. Here is a link to a newspaper article (in Spanish) which clearly states that the house was designed by its owner, Enrique Amorim, not by Le Corbusier.
http://ladiaria.com/articulo/2010/11/por-las-nubes/
it should be removed from the list.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.64.64.115 (talk) 00:36, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Removed. --ELEKHHT 07:36, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not the work of Le Corbusier

message: Small point but "Towards a New Architecture" is not a 'mistranslation,' it's a free translation, something different.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.48.166.110 (talk) 11:35, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. I will fix this. The Sound and the Fury (talk) 03:02, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation of Vers une architecture

message: "Leonardo's suggestion of the golden ratio in human proportions" -- this is based on a misconception. In 1509 Luca Pacioli published a three-volume discourse on the golden mean entitled De Divina Proportione. The book was illustrated by Leonardo da Vinci. But I don't recall seeing any evidence that Leonardo da Vinci based human proportion on the golden ratio. Aknicholas (talk) 02:01, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Golden Mean/Leonardo Myth 

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thread_title: File:La Tourette 72C.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: Le Corbusier was a Swiss architect, born in Switzerland. He took French citizenship later in his life, hence I see no reason not to describe him as "Swiss architect". mgeo talk 11:20, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: For international people like this it may seem forced to implement a nationality in the very first line anyway. Why not put this in a second paragraph where there is a modicum of space to explain the matter? No need to shoehorn, is what I'm saying. The Sound and the Fury (talk) 00:53, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Precisely. He's notable for his architecture, urban projects and writings. That he was born in Switzerland or lived in France is of secondary importance. Is wrong to reverse priorities. --ELEKHHT 03:27, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

text: *Well... you omit to say that there was an edit war with mgeo who insisted to describe Lecorbu as a Swiss architect. I was only trying to solve this conflict as mgeo's argument was that Lecorbu' Swiss nationality was not well indicated in the article. It seems that mgeo was happy with my revision when bringing the subject of nationality to the first line. I think that the conflictual issue is now solved. If you believe that the article can be improved without generating further conflicts, I have no problem with that. Let see what mgeo has to say on your proposed revision.--Christophe Krief (talk) 11:54, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: *I appreciate that you wish to satisfy MadGeographer, but note that Wikipedia is not the right place for displaying national pride, and the article should focus on providing a good encyclopaedic description, not satisfy individual editors. The description "Swiss architect" has been reverted many times by a number of editors, and does continue to have no consensus. I think the current introductory paragraph is fair and accurate. --ELEKHHT 21:42, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

text: Maybe could be more compact towards the end, and simply state "Europe, India and America", given that Moscow is in the European part of Russia, and having less projects in America is no good reason to increase emphasis by a more lengthy description. -ELEKHHT 21:42, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nationality 

message: I think this section was actually somewhat helpful  because it shows us who his peers and co-workers were. What's the real problem with inclusion here? The Sound and the Fury (talk) 16:50, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Collaborators 

message: User Billinghurst removed the following external link alleging there may be a CoI in it. Would you care to explain where this alleged CoI would come from?
* Biography and furnitures of Le Corbusier at Gallerie Downtown François Laffanour (Paris)
Thanks, warshy¥¥ 15:25, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alleged COI in external link? 

message: The phrase "Dedicated to providing better living conditions for the residents of crowded cities" doesn't sound quite POV-neutral, and it would likely be questioned by those who feel that Corbu's city planning herded working class folks into crowded cities while opening up the green suburban and rural spaces for the wealthy. [user:PurpleChez|PurpleChez] 10/1/14  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.249.207.195 (talk) 15:51, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  opening section 

message: Is there a reason that the Carpenter Center for the Visual Arts doesn't show up in the list of works? It is his only building in the US.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.241.98.241 (talk) 21:32, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Carpenter Center 

message: Does anyone know why the article adds the "Gris" onto his last name in the lead?  I know that it's written that way on his birth certificate and his 1941 identity card, but he doesn't seem to have used that name, and the biographies I've seen and the home page of the Fondation Le Corbusier simply call him Charles-Édouard Jeanneret, and that's what he usually called himself.   Would anyone object strongly if we left out the Gris?  Cordially,  SiefkinDR (talk) 14:18, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: agree WP:OFFICIAL confirms we should not necessarily use the official names for folks.--Frederika Eilers (talk) 14:30, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  agree, you could leave the full name in the info box, next to "born", and change the lede only. Coldcreation (talk) 14:51, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: The french wiki article also writes -Gris. Here is his birth certificate. I think you've already seen it. Coldcreation (talk) 14:57, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Wouldn't another option be to use the common name, with the information about the birth certificate and identity card in a footnote, so as not to create unnecessary queries about the discrepancy between the lede and the infobox? Thanks, warshy (¥¥) 16:07, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

text: The English Wikipedia lead seems to be a direct translation of the French article  and uses the Gris, but the rest of the French article ignores it.  I've not seen it in any other source other than Wikipedia.  It's true that it's on the birth certificate and on his wartime ID card, but I don't see that we need to use it if he didn't.   Why don't we just drop it?  Or, as suggested above,  Use his common name in the lead, with a footnote indicating that his birth name was slightly different.  Cordially, SiefkinDR (talk) 16:30, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  This source uses -Gris on several pages:   Ministère de la Culture et de la Communication, Archives nationales; site de Fontainebleau. Coldcreation (talk) 16:40, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I would do just as does the article on Pablo Picasso, stating his full (lengthy) name in the infobox, and not in the lead. Coldcreation (talk) 17:42, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: And that would be fine, I believe, as long as the full birth name in the Infobox here would also have a footnote pointing to a source that explains it, as it does in the Picasso article you use as reference. Thanks, warshy (¥¥) 18:10, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

text: I wouldn't go by the Fontainebleau site; I see that they have his first name wrong.  But I think you have the right solution;  full name in the info box, more common name in the lead and text.  Cordially, SiefkinDR (talk) 19:27, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  What page is there a mistake in his name? You were probably looking at his fathers name on one of the documents. Even so (if not rather), there can be mistakes anywhere. The fact is, his father used -Gris in the last name, and so too his son. It's very likely, the Le Corbusier Foundation website got its information (i.e., his birth certificate) from the Fontainebleau site. Nowhere had I seen it written that he was awarded Grand Officiers of the Légion d'honneur, except at the Fontainebleau site.Coldcreation (talk) 08:38, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why Charles-Édouard Jeanneret-Gris? 

message: Dear ColdCreation.  There are a lot of pictures to come, and I think we're going to need to use galleries. I'm afraid that if they're arranged vertically in the margins they're going to push far outside of their sections.   I think its important to have the text and the images together as much as possible. Cordially, SiefkinDR (talk) 08:10, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Fine, but remember, vertical images in Mode=packed galleries do not respond well to captions (appearing exceedingly narrow), nor to size ratio when placed aside horizontal images (they appear exceedingly small). Also, there won't be very many (if any at all) images of paintings to come, since very few of his paintings were published before 1923, so no need for a Paintings gallery. Also, no need to post a bunch of images from Commons, there's already a "Wikimedia Commons media related to Le Corbusier" link in the article. Coldcreation (talk) 08:32, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Galleries 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This article spends very little time on Le Corbusier's personal life and relationships. Though these may seem prurient, these had an important effect on his work and the work of others associated with him. Just to serve as two examples; his wife, Yvonne, is mentioned only once in the body of the article. Eileen Gray is not mentioned at all. Integrating these elements should be done carefully and relevantly, but they should not be forgotten.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sam.hill7 (talk • contribs) 13:45, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Personal Life 

message: Hi, as you can read in the disambiguation page, "Corbu" was a nickname of Le Corbusier, I learned while looking for the first time the first episode of Fraiser (a lamp by Corbu). If I have checked correctly, such information is not in the current version of the article. I think it should be inserted.--Alexmar983 (talk) 17:49, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have a reliable source? Coldcreation (talk) 17:53, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: There many of them on google books. Here is one or abother one. Bye.--Alexmar983 (talk) 18:03, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Feel free then to add it to the article with a citation. Coldcreation (talk) 18:49, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: My problem was not the citation, was the location in the article. is the incpit ok or not?--Alexmar983 (talk) 21:17, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Most of the article seems to follow chronological order, so it could be placed during the period his nickname was first used. Coldcreation (talk) 21:40, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no idea when it was first used. This is not really a topic I know very well, I just noticed it is missing.--Alexmar983 (talk) 17:08, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Corbu 

message: Have you come across any reliable sources that speak to this project? Kengo Kuma's Anti-Object makes mention of it, tho I'm seeking something with more detail to add expand this edit: Maison Citrohan. I appreciate any help you can offer. | Stussll (talk) 23:02, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Maison Citrohan" 

message: Can someone help in creating Template:Le Corbusier?Khenamothara (talk) 04:12, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Here is a first draft. Still needs work: Template:Le Corbusier. Coldcreation (talk) 05:34, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  wow, Thanks. Khenamothara (talk) 08:54, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Template:Le Corbusier 

message: This page has 33 sections. Some examples; the page on Constance Stokes (a featured article about an artist) has 6 sections, and the pages on figures so significant and varied as Gorbachev, Thomas Edison and Bohr all have less than 16 sections. I don't doubt the depth and variety of the information in the page, but 33 sections (?!) is surely too many - information that is relevant is split between sections, and the article is quite complex. I don't know if anybody has some ideas, or even agrees, but maybe some changes are due.   Glissando1234567890 (talk) 19:49, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: If you have the time and disposition now to start some reorganization, I could agree to that. But, on condition that this supposed "reorganization" proceeds step-by-step. That is, slowly rather than fast, one section at a time. If you want to start such a task in such a pace as I am describing (step-by-step, meaning one section at a time), I am willing to review each step that is completed, and give my opinion if it indeed improves the article, or not. In other words, I am willing to try and work with you on that. Good luck. warshy (¥¥) 21:44, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

text: That sounds good - I'm happy to work as you suggest, and hope to begin soon. Thank you very much, Glissando1234567890 (talk) 19:54, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hello, I know it's been months since I first mentioned this, but if you're still interested, I could start on it next week.Glissando1234567890 (talk) 11:08, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello , Yes, I'm still here learning and editing a bit every day. If you start working on it I will certainly see your edits and I will review them. If I see any issues I will raise them here. Good luck, and enjoy your work. Thank you, warshy (¥¥) 15:58, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page reorganization  

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