Talk:Francisco Goya

message: Here is a quick Goya timeline, from a random meta: page link to .
1763 Madrid, Academy San Fernando 
1771 in Rome (since 1768?); returns to Spain in June 
1773 married Josefa Bayeu 
1774 commissioned by Mengs to do cartoons for tapestries 
1775-92 various tapestries 
1780 member of Royal Academy 
1786 a painter to the King 
1789 Court painter 
1792 ill; deafness (lead poisoning/ encephalitis/ syphilis?) 
1795 Director of Painting, R.A. 
1797 resigned above position, due to ill health 
1799 1st Court painter 
1808 French invasion 
1814 French Expelled 
1815 Spanish Inquisition; Maja paintings 
1819 serious illness 
1823 King restored to absolute power 
1824 Goya went into hiding; exile in Bordeaux 
1828 dies in Bordeaux .
Added a picture of Goya in Bordeaux --MichaelVD 21:39, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Timeline

message: Last I checked Goya wasn't a romantic, but I'm not an art critic or historian, is it fair to say that Goya was "a romantic Artist, whose art was envoked by his inner most feelings," rather than "an impressionist artist whose..." or "a gothic artist whose..."??
I need someone more familiar with these terms to make the call.
-Diabolic 14:34, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Romanticism? 

message: It is well known in circles of Goya scholars that many attributions to the prolific master are incorrect.  In my own experience, paintings hanging beside his name in museums as prestigious as the Hispanic Society in New York and the Prado Museum in Madrid can safely be eliminated from his oeuvre.  One such contentious attribution is ""Saturn Devouring his Son,"" which is illustrated on the Goya page here.  This should be noted.--Fixifex 05:01, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: cf. http://themedium.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/15/goyas-painting-not-by-goya/ --91.64.176.234 (talk) 16:23, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  http://www.sgallery.net/artnews/2009/01/27/prado-museum-determines-that-colossus-is-not-an-original-goya.html 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7475405.stm FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 04:38, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Questioned works? 

message: For the purpose of scholarly research, it is important that a reader knows about the article from the NY Times Magazine, not just referenced, text which may be copyrighted by the interviewer or another party. I have added the reference (not the picture). As is often the case in WP, the author may however benefit from the added attention drawn to the material, and not raise an objection. I myself own a few reproductions of these so-called black works after a visit to the Prado. JohnClarknew (talk) 11:39, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Added material which may be copyrighted

message: I have moved one image and deleted another, primarily to improve the look of the page, but also because the reproduction of the portrait of the Duchess was of such poor quality, it was of no benefit. The page needs a lot of work: structured headings, information on his early work, cites, etc. JNW 00:12, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Image changes

message: The details of his personal life in this article are in need of the attention of an expert. I don't claim to be one, but I'm pretty sure that The details of his later life in particular are wrong. Rosario Weiss, for instance, was rumored to be his daughter and also to be under his tutoledge. The painting "The Milkmaid of Bordeaux" is contested as to its authenticity as a Goya piece, and is more commonly being attributed to Rosario.
:I have begun to address the relationship aspect to which you refer. Thanks, JNW 20:34, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair enough, but to be honest I've never heard of any such disputes regarding the authenticity of "The Milkmaid of Bordeaux". Wasn't the whole thing with that work, that it was supposed to be his last painting, with a noteable revision back to his famous realist-style just before he died? I'm suprised I've never come across that dispute before, espcialy considering the importance of the work. Jason McConnell-Leech 06:51, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Biography 

message: I took out the clause about his house in Fuendetodos, "and which was surrounded by the dry lands".  What did it mean, please?  --RobertG ♬ talk 14:57, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it means a desert-like region, but I've not been able to confirm that notion. --sparkitTALK 15:15, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Dry lands" 

message: As you all know, during this time period Spain was experiencing a French invasion (as well as sorting out the whole Charles IV led independence scuffles etcetera..). During this time Goya served as a court painter for the French (ie. effectively a war painter), and as far as I can see, this is not mentioned in the article. I can't see why this is not a significant enough detail to be left wanting. Especially since this was among the most potent events that shaped his realist style; not to mention the focal point of his Disasters of War Series (which coincidently also seem to be lacking a mention). 
(Sources are here, and here.)
Jason McConnell-Leech 06:45, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Napoleonic Invasions 1808-1814 

message: I reverted anecdotal and uncited paragraph on the Majas' identity. The story sounds apocryphal, if only because neither figure could have been painted as rapidly as suggested--these are highly finished works. As well, primary speculation connected with Godoy is that the model was his mistress, not his wife. The deleted paragraph follows: JNW 13:17, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Majas

message: Jonathan Jones, "Wikitedium: The lazy and passionless tenor of art coverage in Wikipedia is both mystifying and aggravating" The Guardian. The dispiriting dead hand of uninformed Wikipedia "enforcers" of No POV has been noted within Wikipedia, too.--Wetman (talk) 23:46, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Briefly discussed a few weeks ago here: . One muses over the inevitable results of an NPOV 'free' atmosphere. When desiring to express point of view this contributor writes, as does Mr. Jones, for publication. JNW (talk) 23:58, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: A little less snippily: of course the writing is uneven, sometimes good, sometimes not, but I don't think the dulling effect of neutrality is the prime culprit. Uneven scholarship and the fingerprints of many different contributors can lead to results either bland or inspired. Passionate expression is not irreconcilable with encyclopedic tone. If this or any article on the arts is lackluster, anyone is welcome to energize it. Including Jonathan Jones. JNW (talk) 02:16, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Wikitedium: Wikipedia's Goya article

message: In various sections of this article, there is a distinct explanation for how/why Goya was deaf. If there are multiple theories, perhaps these all should be corralled into one section. I can't do this as I don't know enough about Goya, so I just have to make the suggestion at this point, for the sake of narrative coherence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.223.128.186 (talk) 18:14, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Goya's Deafness

message: I thinks might make a stronger lead. It is used on the monster es article. Ceoil sláinte 22:41, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This is months late in response, but sure, Ceoil. JNW (talk) 00:54, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Lead image

message: It is important to display all of a painter's abilities, but is it really necessary we display "Saturn Devouring his Children" on Goya's page? Please keep in mind this is a disturbing painting, and I think a link is appropriate in this situation. Some input on this point is appreciated.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.237.230.2 (talk) 00:39, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It's gruesome, but it accurately reflects the tenor of much of his late work, and is mentioned in the article as a primary example of the Black Paintings. Also, it's fantasy, unlike the Third of May directly above it, which is far more disturbing for being based on actual events. That said, I don't have a problem with keeping the link to the separate article and using a different image. As with many of the masters, there's an abundance of images which can be switched out from time to time. JNW (talk) 00:52, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Saturn Devouring His Children

message: Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that :File:Vicente López Portaña - el pintor Francisco de Goya.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on July 8, 2013. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2013-07-08. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. Thanks! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:10, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[:File:Vicente López Portaña - el pintor Francisco de Goya.jpg]] to appear as POTD 

message: The entire "Darker subject matter" section is unsourced, does anyone have citations for the claims being made? If not it should probably be removed. GrassHopHer (talk) 00:24, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: It does need cites, but I wouldn't scrap the section; there's nothing especially controversial or off-base. Better to allow for editors to provide cites as they can. JNW (talk) 00:30, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: unsourced section: Darker subject matter

message: Napoleon did not lead an army into Spain.  He sent a general.  That was for the war with Portugal.  In 1808 Napoleon was in Spain for the war against Spain. Ealtram (talk) 14:25, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  General Junot 

message: The article claims she was born 1790 and cites two sources: (1) JJ Junquera, and (2) a mysterious source, "Stevenson", who is nowhere else mentioned in the article or references. The Spanish-language Wikipedia gives her dates as 1788-1856, citing the Prado Museum's biography. So, it would appear that her year of birth may be wrong, and at the very least there is a problem with the "Stevenson" citation. Muzilon (talk) 08:26, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: ADDENDA: OK, having looked at the article about La Leocadia, it would seem that the incomplete reference is to Ian Stevenson's European Cases of the Reincarnation Type (2003), p. 243. I've fixed this accordingly. But although Stevenson does give Leocadia's birth year as 1790, this still contradicts the Spanish sources. Muzilon (talk) 09:30, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Leocadia Weiss