Talk:Francis Drake/Archive 1

message: I may be being pedantic but i'm pretty sure 'Albion' means 'Britain' rather than just England? Bjrobinson 09:32, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Albion

message: I deleted the phrase "heavily outnumbered and outgunned" referring to Howard and Drake's English fleet. This is a total myth, and anybody who doubts this should read Garret Mattingly's book "The Armada", which won a Special Pulitzer Prize and is, incidentally, the finest history book I've ever read.
The fleets were roughly equal in size, but the English ships were of a more modern design with superior guns. Mattingly discusses the origins of the myth about the supposed "superiority" of the Spanish fleet.
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A one-shot anonym having added a note on Drake's career of harrassment of the Spanish, I've made it a bit more accurate: his relations to the Armada are rather inadequately described as "harassment"; and the center of his attentions appears to have been the Empire more than the Spanish, though possibly there could be debate on this. Meanwhile, there needs to be a mention of the incident as San Juan de Ulloa (or Ulua), which has now been done without once using the word "treachery". Dandrake 06:39, Feb 2, 2004 (UTC)
BTW, to say that he became a privateer at the age of 13 is pretty silly, so the article no longer says it. Dandrake 06:47, Feb 2, 2004 (UTC)
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Well, personally, I think he was just a pirate, but that's my own point of view which I am of course not going to add to the main article. I just wanted to mention that my Spanish is good enough to know that "El Draque" does NOT mean absolutely anything. So whoever wrote that it is a translation from Drake was wrong. I don't know what they called him. I'm only saying that Draque is not Spanish for dragon. Rumpelstiltskin 12:54, 5 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Outgunned?

message: I think the article is heavily biased in that it doesn't have the word pirate anywhere in the text. A search in google for "drake pirate" gives about 86000 results.
12 Jul 2004
*Instead of adding an NPOV dispute disclaimer to the body of the article, why not edit the article to resolve the dispute?  Add "pirate" somewhere, where appropriate.  Personally, I think its covered: the lead states that Drake was a "privateer", which is accurate. Marlowe 16:20, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Piracy

message: The name of his ship was the Golden Hinde. The spelling "Hind" is a modernisation.
:FYI -- it would be difficult to say that the spelling of any word or name from the 16th Century is exactly a particular way. Consistent spelling was not a requirement at that time. I don't know about "Hind/e" in particular but I do know that in manuscripts of that period and earlier, handwritten and printed, spellings of words could vary within the same page. In fact I have seen facsimilies and "verbatim" copies of some of Caxton's publication and seen "England" spelled in a variety of ways including "Inglande" and "Ynglonde". Seems that as the printers set the page, if they were short on letters they would improvise. 
:Prior to dictionaries there really wasn't much of a standard, and I don't think there was much social preassure either. I'd be hard put at the moment for a citation, but I have heard mention that the language was still more "oral" and words were simply spelled as they "sounded". FWIW 128.101.114.146 20:37, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Golden Hinde

message: Yes he landed in California however that was a very minor event, not one of his biggest achievments. Why is it mentioned at the head of the article? Shouldn't it mention him being one of the figures seen as creating modern England and defeating the armada?
:There must be an editor who is very interested in Drake and California. The History of California is burdened by a long section on Drake's possible stop there. I'm going to move most of it here, and I apologize in advance for any clumsiness in the merge. Please correct as necessary. Cheers, -Willmcw 20:57, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone had deleted the entire section about circumnavigation. I've reverted it back, but it's still rather more focussed on California than the whole round trip. --ScottDavis 01:15, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: California?

message: I am Spanish, and I have deleted the reference to the supposed nickname of “El Draque”. The explanation is as simple as hilarious. 
Dragon in English means Dragón in Spanish. 
“Draque” is how a Spaniard who doesn’t know how to talk English would say “Drake”. ‘El’ is an article used before the name of things, but  when it is used before the name of the people it uses to have pejorative connotations.
Drake was (and stills being) depreciated by the Spaniards, as a cruel and coward pirate who used to sack civilian harbors when the Royal Spanish Armada was away enough to protect them. 
Unlike Nelson, who was admired by the Spanish naval officers as a great military enemy, Drake would had been hung as soon as he was captured by the Spanish escort fleets. 
Apart from this, Drake is seen by the Spanish historians as a megalomaniac and a compulsive liar, who used to exaggerate his victories as much as he hided his defeats. 
For instance, something that is not commented in the article, is that when Drake circumnavigated the World, he considered himself as the first man doing such a thing, despite the fact that the Spaniard Juan Sebastián Elcano had circumnavigated the World some decades before Drake. Drake even carried in his ship a plate with the words “First man circumnavigating the World”.
 Regarding "El Draque":
"El Draque" was the term by which Francis Drake was known to the Spaniards back then, for precisely the reason mentioned by you: it's the way in which his name would have been pronounced by a spanish-speaker.As for his supposed cruelty- there seems very little evidence of that. The Prisoners held aboard of the "Hinde" certainly attested to his great humanity in dealing with them; and the story of "Diego"- an escaped Slave (Cimmarrone) who followed Drake back to England and eventually around the world- speaks for itself. Diego must have been one of the first- if not THE first- black man to complete a circumnavigation of the globe. Drake was no Saint- but he certainly was no Devil either.213.94.180.191 21:15, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Deleted the “el Draque”

message: Check out the new picture  WB2 05:15, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: New picture

message: When I try to upload from wikicommons :Image:Drake.jpg, I get a stupid cartoon character. What's up? WB2 05:35, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: What's with the cartoon character?

message: Is there a definitive biography of Drake?
Re.: Drake Bio
I don't know if it's a definite one, but it's a pretty good one:
John Sugden, "Sir Francis Drake",Touchstone-Book,Simon+Schuster/New York,
John Sugden can be counted as a "Fan" of Drake, but the historical facts tend to speak for themselves.(I don't have E-Mail right now, so I'm simply entering this by IP-adress.Still got to find my way around here...)213.94.180.191 21:15, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Drake bio

message: I have a question, what is the dedffinition of "pirate", to avoid to say that he was a pirate (and not only for a "Spanish point of view").
I would recomend to read the article about the Spanish Armada, that explains the battle of Gravenas. I think it can mislead a little about what happened. --Darkmaiki 02:31, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Pirate

message: Under External Links "Golden Hind, (Ships of the World: An Historical Encyclopedia)" takes you to a site that requires a log in to access.
Recommend removal. Erraunt 19:02, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Bad link?

message: the cartoon was made from the original pdold image, so it's not a deriv ative of a copyrighted one. However, the pdold image looks better and makes the entry more professinal --  Drini 05:34, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: correct myself

message: The sentence "Elaina thinks that this is a good website" keeps showing up on a line of its own just before the "Final Years" section, but no corresponding text appears in the editing area. Any ideas on why it's here, and how to get rid of it?
141.211.98.103 04:07, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Spurious text?!

message: I think it's time there was a Wikiproject:Devon up and running. Anyone interested, come to my talkpage and we'll sort something out. I'm not much good at HTML but if we all put our heads together I'm sure we can give Devon articles the treatment they deserve. Totnesmartin 16:18, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: WikiProject

message: I am a descendant of the John Drake and Margaret Cole that are asserted in the article to be great grandparents of this Francis Drake.  In piecing the Drake family tree from different sources (most notably http://www.wyverngules.com/Pedigrees/Stemped4--Devon.htm), I have concluded that the Francis Drake that is a great grandson of John Drake and Margaret Cole is a ninth cousin twice removed (or thereabouts) of the famous Sir Francis Drake.  The two lived at about the same, so it seems that whoever added that information thought the two Francis Drakes to be one person.  Does anyone care to comment on this before I make the appropriate corrections to the article?  -John Rigali 04:40, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Drake's ancestry

message: This page needs a map of Drake's travels.  I am sure there are some out there.  Any ideas?
ColoradoZ 02:09, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is there a map? 

message: The user who wrote that put on my talk page:
You say: In regards to this edit, Why do you say he was a pirate?, The article doesn't say anywhere else in it that he is a pirate. Bawolff 02:49, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  him being a pirate 

message: There were several spanish sailors who perform the trip around the world after Elcano/Magallanes and before Drake. Therefore I think the sentence telling he was the second navigator making a trip around the world is not true. Actually since 1565 to 1831 there was the ship named "Galeon de Manila" which did a regular trip between Manila (Filippines) and Acapulco in Mexico. 
Therefore it can be concluded that trips around the world for the Spanish/Portuguesses could be something relativelly normal between 1565-1580 as long as they know the different routes. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.235.106.252 (talk) 18:36, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Second trip aound the world 

message: The wiki article reads: "Drake survived the attack largely because of his ability to swim."
However, according to "Francis Drake" by John Cummins, Drake's ship, the Judith, was one of the two that made it back to Plymouth, and in fact, beat the Minion, by a few days.
Is my source wrong? Looking for some feedback, folks. :) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Theresa w (talk • contribs) 14:52, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Drake at Ulua 

message: I Changed some of the wording on Drake's slave trading awhile ago, including changing
labor camps to plantations. I don't edit for facts on wikipedia so much as for proper use 
of language. I noticed that some one changed it back to labor camps and said they were euphemistically called plantations, thats not proper use of the term euphemism because 
plantation isn't a nicer way of saying labor camp, those are two completely separate entities, labor camp has the connotation of political prisoners or prisoners of war, while plantation carries with it the connotation of slavery. I won't change it again but if the consensus is with me someone one change it.
Under the section titled, "Birth and early years," a profanity is visible in Paragraph 3 following the semicolon. Please remove. Thank you. All of you!! 66.166.214.74 22:26, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Plantation is not an euphemism. The slaves were sold to plantations, because of the slavery it is already clear that forced labour was used. As nobody argued against the wording 'plantation' I will change it back. Pukkie 14:44, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plantation is not a euphemism 

message: In 1582 his wife of tweleve years, Mary, died.Not long afterwards he came to Combe Sydenharm to court Elizabeth, whom hed met as a maid of honour at the queens court.Her family was not impressed as despite his title and wealth they looked on him as a pirate and naval adverturer.
Before he returened to the sea on another expodition, he gained Elizabeths word that she would wait for him, no matter how long. However, as the period became years, she became betrothed to someone else (probably at her families urging)
 On the day of the wedding the bride and groom was waiting at the church and the bridal party was just about to enter when there was a blinding flash and a great ball hurled from the sky to land bettween the bride and groom. In a time of great superstition, to 
Elizibeth this was an unmistakeable message from Drake. Claiming that it was a connonball fired by Drake to halt the wdding, she refussed to go ahead with it. Shortly afterwards Drake arrived from Plymouth and he and Elizabeth were married on 18th June 1585.
The experts say that the ball is a metiorite and weighs over 45kgs.
The cannonball was placed in a position of honour in the hall at  Combe Sydenham and a legend has grown up around it that there would be a curse on anyone who removed it and that it would always roll back of its own accord. It is said that in the past farm  workers have carried it to the top oof the hill in the deer park and watched it roll back to the porch. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 144.138.184.167 (talk) 07:20, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  the "Cannonball"