Talk:Fawzi al-Qawuqji

message: The following statements currently in the 'Arab Liberation Army' section must be sourced with reliable references:
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In early March 1948, Qawuqji arrived in Palestine from Damascus at the head of several hundred Arab volunteers. He crossed the Allenby Bridge with his troops on March 6, 1948 and a day later he brought also some motorized troops into Palestine before the non-reacting British troops.
The ALA's first and only major operation was to launch an attack on the settlement of Mishmar HaEmak in April 1948. The Haganah and Palmach counter-attacked and the ALA were routed. In October 1948 the last of the ALA forces were driven out of the Galilee in Operation Hiram and Qawuqji escaped to Lebanon.
After the end of the war he moved to Syria and lived in Damascus.
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Editors are reminded to properly source the statements they add to a Wikipedia article, and to NOT remove statements that *are* well-sourced.  Thank you in advance for your cooperative and collegial behavior in the future.Ronreisman (talk) 00:14, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Statements must be sourced

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: In response to: 
1. This isn't "anything at all" found in a newspaper. It's a contemporaneous, firsthand news report on the ground in the region during the conflict from a perennial source in which the writer quoted something al-Q said. The other sources in the body all report secondhand and cannot be given priority over firsthand accounts. 
2. During this period, there are numerous instances of Arab leadership having said phrases referring either to extermination or expulsion of Jews/Israelis, only for them to walk them back, recant, or deny them when they faced western or press scrutiny. That this quote does not appear in a propaganda archive means nothing - especially given the fact that he gave the quote to the press, and has never been suggested was a part of a propaganda programme. Conway reported it as a quote, he and Daily News are RS, and until evidence is presented otherwise, there is nothing present to undercut the reliability of the reporting. 
3. Hazkani's bias and research thoroughness have been questioned to the point that he got into a public argument in Israeli media a few years back. If we are to include his assertion, we'll have to include the public rebuttal (by a competing newspaper) that his research is incomplete and he makes biased leading assertions on these points in the face of an abundance of evidence that cites otherwise. 
I myself have found *dozens* of instances of contemporaneous, *direct* reporting in the 1940s, 1950s, and 1960s that confirm how often Arab leaders used this phrase and similar terminology (when convenient, re: the above reminder that there was plenty of walk-back by leaders when confronted with their own words). For Hazkani to claim that in "15 years of searching, during which I read hundreds of propaganda documents from 1947 to 1949, I encountered only one case in which an Arab leader mentioned 'sea' and 'Jews' in the same sentence", it merely says to me he was either looking in the wrong place, or wasn't thinking to use (or didn't have available to him) digital archives, which are replete with instances. Mistamystery (talk) 17:25, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: To my knowledge, Hazkani is the only historian who has sifted through the trove of ALA documents held by the Israeli archives. I made a mistake characterising it as "propaganda" material; some of it is, but most of it consists of internal documents, instructions to field units, etc, collected by Haganah intelligence. But even that is not all his work is based on; he uses Haganah documents as well and other contemporary material. Of course his conclusions will be criticised if they question the standard Israeli narrative; that's how it works but where is the serious refutation? Someone in a newspaper not liking it is not a refutation. There is absolutely no question that Hazkani should be cited. As for your newspaper story, the reporter doesn't actually say that al-Q said those words, and doesn't claim to have interviewed him or heard him personally. It can just as easy be read as a phrase going around that the reporter chose to use as a paraphrase of what the reporter thought al-Q's aim was. Historians do not treat such stuff as evidence. Zerotalk 05:20, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

text: I looked at a lot of press around that time, in particular Jewish press, and found that the phrase was very popular. It was almost always placed in quotes but hardly ever attributed to a particular person except sometimes to a journalist. For example this in The Palestine Post⁩⁩ of 11 June 1948:  Even though the phrase is in quotes, it isn't given as a quote of someone. It is just a way of marking a stock phrase that was in the air at the time. Zerotalk 09:47, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of RS