Talk:Battle of Brody (1941)

message: ORBAT Q: with 5 mech corps engaged, why the number of tanks is only 1000? NVO 11:22, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not Sure. My information comes from the Battlefield Documentary Series. Battlefield - The Battle of Russia. Mercenary2k 22:32, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

message: :Changes were made to the article regarding the quality of Soviet tanks involved, suggesting that all tanks involved on the Soviet side were early model BT's and no KV or T34. While it is true that the 9th, 19th, 22nd Mechanized Corps attached to the 5th Army were generally outfitted with older models, the 4th, 8th and 15th attached to the 6th army comprised some of the best equipped divisions in the Soviet OOB with a fair number of more modern tanks. This is confirmed in Solonin, Glanz and even by Rybayshev himself who states that in the 8th Mechanized "...169 of the Corps’ tanks were modern medium and heavy models such as the T-34." 
:Please in future don't change sourced material, without providing a source that contradicts, or improves upon the earlier source. Livedawg (talk) 09:09, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Composition of Soviet Tank Forces

message: As far as I can tell Vlasov had nothing to do with commanding this operation by the Soviet forces. He was in charge of the 4th Mechanized Corps at the time as part of the 6th Army under Lieutenant General N. I. Muzychenko, according to Rybashev. Properly the Soviet forces were under the command of the 6th Army and the 5th Army, and under the overall co-ordination of Kirponos.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.248.135.133 (talk) 07:41, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vlasov 

message: The entire disposition of forces section uses two documentaries on youtube as citations. Most of it has no direct relevance to the battle itself and instead is about more the general state of logistics, tactics and equipment in the two forces. The only part that I feel is directly relevant is the first paragraph, though it mostly repeats the preceding section. If no one has any objections, I will merge this with the following section into one on the disposition of forces/order of battle without the general discussion of tactics and logistics (which are well explained throughout the rest of the article). Sharrken (talk) 17:12, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disposition of forces section removal/rewrite/merge 

message: I reverted the following content: 
Furthermore, Soviet tank crews were not trained on the mechanical details of their machines. That meant that simple mechanical problems resulted in hundreds of Red Army tanks being abandoned on the road side en route to the battle.(ref name="youtube.com"/><ref>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0WKPrgf9sY</ref)  Compounding these logistical difficulties was that each Red Army tank division had 300–400 tanks, but were supported by only 1500 trucks, contrasting with a Wehrmacht tank division which had only 150–200 tanks, but 2000 trucks. Experience would prove that the Germans got it right.(ref name="youtube.com"/)
Reasoning:
 
1. Youtube a RS?
 
2. It is utter nonsense that Red Army tank crewmen were untrained in basic maintenance. Every tank crew in the world spends most of their time doing maintenance. In the Red Army, drivers were referred to as "driver-mechanics".
3. It is also jumping to conclusions to say that lack of maintenance training (which I do not concede anyway) is what led to hundreds of AFVs being abandoned in 1941. It was the documented fact that many of the tanks were old and overdue for major depot-level maintenance such as engine rebuilds that cannot be carried out at the unit level; there was also a lack of planning for fuelling and ammunitioning, etc. All of these issues are very well documented in COL David Glantz's 'Stumbling Colossus'. Entire units went into combat with one (or less than one) ammo load or with NO plan to ever refuel. But I would also point out that every army in retreat tends to abandon lots of tanks for mechanical failures. In a large scale retreat, orderly refueling and simple maintenance procedures fall apart. The Germans abandoned a lot of tanks in Normandy in August 1944; it wasn't because their crews didn't know how to fix them, nor were more getting knocked out that month.....  
  
4. The Division was a key echelon in the Wehrmacht, but not in the Red Army. The major tactical unit was the Corps. Comparing division to division makes no sense. 
5. The number of trucks in a Division means nothing without comparing it to other echelons that may routinely support that Division. It may surprise people to learn that WW2 US divisions had fewer trucks than many of their counterparts in other armies, yet the US Army was obviously very highly motorized. The trucks were simply not present in divisional-level organizations, they were in truck companies pooled (centralized) at the field army level, but available for use by divisions.  
Experience in 1941-45 clearly and unambiguously proved the Germans got it WRONG. Regards, DMorpheus2 (talk) 15:49, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Youtube? 

message: Hi! I am only at the first section: PRELUDE....and noticed that the entire text is copied from  here. I also ran the Copyright Vio detector and we've got a 94% violation for This Site. 
Here is the link to the Copyright Vio detector analysis page.
I admit, there seems to be very little in the way of scholarly papers published on the subject, but nonetheless, the whole article needs a complete re-wording. All the best Wikirictor 15:55, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Both seem copied from Wiki. --Denniss (talk) 22:57, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: CopyPaste

message: If the soviets attacked with better coordination, would they be able to win? Misel982001 (talk) 18:42, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fierce battle 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
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Participate in the deletion discussion at the . —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:32, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: The intro section states that this is the battle with the most tanks involved, but the battle of Kursk involved well over 10,000 tanks, over twice as much as Brody had?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by ReidMoffat (talk • contribs) 19:19, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: largest battle through most tanks on spot in direct combat. --Denniss (talk) 21:50, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is this really the laget tank battle?