Talk:United States anti-abortion movement

message: Per BRD, I changed the (also called) to (most commonly called). This was because anti abortion movements are most commonly called pro life. A quick ngrams or google trends search shows this is true. Pro life is about 2x most common than anti abortion. Yet, my edit was reverted by @NightHeron. If they could explain why as "was better before" is not a very good explanation, that would be great. PalauanReich (talk) 23:03, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: @NightHeron has reverted my edit again, violating policy. PalauanReich (talk) 23:14, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I knew that the longstanding 1RR policy on abortion-related articles was removed by ArbCom in September 2020 (see ), but I was not aware that 1RR had recently been put back. I apologize for the 2nd RR. NightHeron (talk) 23:44, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

text: If you could explain why you are ignoring the WP:BRD cycle and instead trying to edit-war in an unsourced claim, that would be even better than great. A claim of "more commonly called" begs a "by whom?" response. A Google ngram check doesn't even find the existence of the term "right-to-life movement", despite your claims of commonness. --Nat Gertler (talk) 23:16, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: @NatGertler How am I ignoring BRD. I am talking about pro life. If you actually checked pro life vs anti abortion, you would clearly see what I mean. I would say NightHeron is edit warring by ignoring the big notice at the top that says "only 1 revert". PalauanReich (talk) 23:26, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: " To follow BRD specifically, instead of one of the many alternatives, you must not restore your bold edit[...]" sayeth WP:BRD. And your claim about what you truly mean does not match with the edit you did, which included the right-to-life phrase. --Nat Gertler (talk) 23:35, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

text: The article titles are appropriately NPOV but since we mention the 'political spin' names anyway I see no reason why we can't acknowledge that at least one of them is more common than the name we use. I suggest . And analogous changes at United States abortion-rights movement. –CWenger (^ • @) 23:42, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: First, because it hasn't been shown that that's the more common name, although of course it's the common name among anti-abortion activists. Second, because it slyly suggests that the name in the article title isn't really the right one. NightHeron (talk) 23:54, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Ngrams shows it. I suspect nearly everyone familiar with U.S. politics would agree it is more common, regardless of their own views on the issue. –CWenger (^ • @) 00:00, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

text: We don't have a usable source for "more commonly" (using Ngrams or Ghits is a form of OR), much less "most commonly". And the relative commonality of the term is not of such import that we need put it in the first sentence of the article without a source. "Also" serves the purpose of letting the reader know "here's other terms that may have landed you on this page; they mean the same thing. --Nat Gertler (talk) 00:39, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Come on now, you linked Ngrams above to show that "right-to-life movement" is not common, and now suddenly it's OR. Ngrams is linked at WP:TITLE, and it's mentioned as possible evidence for a proposed move at WP:RSPM. How else would we determine the most common name? –CWenger (^ • @) 00:45, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:OR is a restriction on article content, not on discussions. We use them in discussions of titles to use because it's a decision we have to make and it's one of the best tools to use... but that's not the same as making the claim in Wikipedia voice that something is the most common, which would require non-OR sourcing. --Nat Gertler (talk) 01:08, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: This is WP:SKYISBLUE territory, in my opinion. Anybody who pays attention to U.S. politics can see that the most common terms are "pro-choice" and "pro-life". There is probably no source saying this because it's patently obvious. For the same reason, we also don't have a source explaining that "anti-abortion" and "pro-life" are actually the same thing. –CWenger (^ • @) 13:46, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: If it's that obvious to all, then we don't need to say it. --Nat Gertler (talk) 14:05, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

text: Nobody is debating the article title here... We're debating how to describe another name for the movement which is already given in the content of the article. –CWenger (^ • @) 23:55, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: [Repeat my last sentence] you'd need sources other than your own web survey to say which terms are most common, per WP:OR. ---Avatar317(talk) 20:50, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  most commonly vs also