Talk:Milan Matulović

message: Some of the reports of the retracted move may not be accurate.  According to ChessBase and Chessgames.com, the only time he and Bilek played in 1967 was the Sousse, Tunisia interzonal.  That game was a draw, not a win.  Bubba73 (You talkin' to me?), 20:59, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This does contradict the two sources that say that Matulović won the game, and Saidy & Lessing also get the year wrong.  The Hooper & Whyld and Lombardy & Daniels accounts seem OK.  I don't have the Radojcic Chess Life issue in hand, but the brief quote in the article is OK.  This contradiction does deserve some explanation in the notes, or perhaps we should drop the inaccurate sources.  We would still have three sources, which should be adequate. Quale (talk) 04:09, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  I don't know for sure which ones are inaccurate - except that the ones that say he went on to win are probably wrong (contradicted by the game databases).  They also differ in his opponent's reaction - at least one says that he did nothing and at least one says that he protested but to no avail.  Bubba73 (You talkin' to me?), 04:18, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: That's true, but I think those are the questionable sources again.  It's pretty clear that Saidy & Lessing are wrong on at least the year, a basic fact.  This is the source that claims Bilek did not lodge a protest.  Fox & James is the source that implies that Bilek protested to the arbiter, but it doesn't explicitly say this in the quote we have in the article.  If this is the source for our claim "his opponent complained to the arbiter", then I would say that that claim is not supported as it's a questionable inference that makes a claim significantly stronger than what the source actually says.  That quote could also describe Bilek not lodging a complaint with the arbiter as he realized the arbiter had not seen the infraction so the protest would be futile.  Perhaps not coincidently, this is the only other source that claims that Matulović won.  The first Sousse 1967 crosstable I turned up in Google agrees that the Bilek game was drawn. Are there contradictions in Hooper & Whyld, Lombardy & Daniels, and Radojcic?  Those three look consistent to me.  Perhaps the problems are limited to Saidy & Lessing and Fox & James.  Quale (talk) 06:13, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  I don't know of problems with those sources.  I've quoted all I have found in the footnotes.  There are probably more.  I'd like to have a more consistent picture - there is too much variability in what I've seen.  One of them even quoted Levy as saying that he did it twice in the same year to the same opponent.  I took that out as almost certainly wrong.  If two accounts had different locations that could cause one to think that it had happened twice with the same people in the same year.  Bubba73 (You talkin' to me?), 16:23, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  accuracy 

message: The article claims "Matulović may be coaching the Yugoslav national team (as of 2007)." How is this possible?  There was no Yugoslavia in 2007.... Quale (talk) 03:57, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: That was added on Jan. 2, 2009 as an IP user's only edit.  I'll take it out.  Suspicious, not definitive, unsourced.  Bubba73 (You talkin' to me?), 04:24, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, I should have researched the source of the claim. Quale (talk) 06:15, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

text: Thanks, I didn't know that.  I hope I remember to use it when the need arises. Quale (talk) 00:25, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think that was added only recently.  But it does help a lot when trying to find out who added something a while back.  Bubba73 (You talkin' to me?), 00:50, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Coaching the Yugoslav national team 

message: In the Career section, 'a long history of poor results' against Botvinnik is noted. Prior to their meeting in USSR vs World, they had only played twice; while it is true that Botvinnik won both these encounters, this hardly seems a large enough body of results from which to draw any sort of inference, and I'm no statistician. Hushpuckena (talk) 06:28, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Assuming that you are right about there being only two previous games, I agree.  Bubba73 (You talkin' to me?), 12:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The quote about his "Botvinnik complex" comes from a primary source that says Matulovic himself had "admitted (and proved)" that he had it.  Either some more research is needed here, and/or the text could be modified to reflect Matulovic's self-assessment rather than a "long history." -- Bill-on-the-Hill (talk) 13:27, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, It seems like he realized that he had such a complex, and stated it.  Bubba73 (You talkin' to me?), 15:18, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Botvinnik vs Matulovic