Talk:Shortening

message: ===Disputed text:===
Despite its world-wide usage and availability, vegetable shortening is very dangerous to human health since it contains trans fats. (All products containing partially hydrogenated oils are dangerous to human health because of their trans fat content). According to many nutritional experts, there is no safe amount of trans fat consumption. --66.245.14.20 2005-11-14 04:39 UTC
:I removed unsupported comments concerning shortening being "dangerous". These appear to be little more than opinions and no facts or references were given to support them. The term "dangerous" is in no way scientific, but rather it is an emotional term and does not have a precise definition. Although fats such as shortening may be linked to health problems, this was not explained or supported, so the claim that it is "dangerous" cannot be accepted without explanation of what the term means and how this conclusion was reached. --Trevhj 2005-12-01 12:59 UTC
::The post stated that since shortening contains trans fat, it is dangerous to human health. It is well known that trans fat in general is damaging to health - there are hundreds of sources to prove that. So I believe the question here is whether shortening itself contains trans fat, and I believe that it often (although not always) does. The following is referenced from the Wikipedia article on trans fat:
::*In the US, snack foods, fried foods, baked goods, salad dressings, and other processed foods are likely to contain trans fats, as are vegetable shortenings and margarines. Laboratory analysis alone can determine the amount. Outside the US, trans fats have been largely phased out of retail margarines and shortenings. US food manufacturers are now also phasing out trans fats, but at present, most US margarines still have more trans fat than butter.
::It seems that there are ways to produce shortening without trans fats. This is indicated in the (external) article Trans-Fat Transitions. In light of all of this, I think it will be appropriate to repost the disputed text, with the edit that shortening 'generally' contains trans fats. --ABelani 2005-01-05 03:01 UTC
::Since there is no reply, I'm at this time going to repost the previously removed text. --ABelani 2005-01-08 01:22 UTC
:::The text should be removed for two reasons: 
:::First, because it is politically biased.  The statement that "it is well known that trans fat in general is damaging to health..." is not accurate.  It may be dangerous in certain circumstances, and many people may eat unhealthy amounts of it, but saying it is "well known [to be] generally damaging" in unwarranted.  There is definitely debate on this issue.  There are not "hundreds of sources that prove" that contention.  There may be hundreds of sources that claim that to be true, but that does not prove anything.  Let me be clear - I'm not saying trans-fat is healthy.  Nor am I even saying it is not dangerous.  I'm just saying that "well known [to be] damaging to health" is overstated and not appropriate for this article.  Please see the comments of Trevhj. 
:::Second, because it is inaccurate.  For the purposes of food preparation, shortening is any edible fat that is solid or semi-solid at room temperature.  It can be composed of any of a number of different types of fats.  It does not necessarily contain any specific type of fat.  Shortening is not a synonym for Crisco.  Incidentally, even Crisco has been reformulated to avoid trans-fats.
:::I will be removing the sections of text indicated. --DoctorSlaw (talk) 15:47, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Does shortening contain trans fat?

message: Despite its world-wide usage and availability, vegetable shortening is very dangerous to human health since it contains trans fats. (All products containing partially hydrogenated oils are dangerous to human health because of their trans fat content). According to many nutritional experts, there is no safe amount of trans fat consumption. --66.245.14.20 2005-11-14 04:39 UTC
:I removed unsupported comments concerning shortening being "dangerous". These appear to be little more than opinions and no facts or references were given to support them. The term "dangerous" is in no way scientific, but rather it is an emotional term and does not have a precise definition. Although fats such as shortening may be linked to health problems, this was not explained or supported, so the claim that it is "dangerous" cannot be accepted without explanation of what the term means and how this conclusion was reached. --Trevhj 2005-12-01 12:59 UTC
::The post stated that since shortening contains trans fat, it is dangerous to human health. It is well known that trans fat in general is damaging to health - there are hundreds of sources to prove that. So I believe the question here is whether shortening itself contains trans fat, and I believe that it often (although not always) does. The following is referenced from the Wikipedia article on trans fat:
::*In the US, snack foods, fried foods, baked goods, salad dressings, and other processed foods are likely to contain trans fats, as are vegetable shortenings and margarines. Laboratory analysis alone can determine the amount. Outside the US, trans fats have been largely phased out of retail margarines and shortenings. US food manufacturers are now also phasing out trans fats, but at present, most US margarines still have more trans fat than butter.
::It seems that there are ways to produce shortening without trans fats. This is indicated in the (external) article Trans-Fat Transitions. In light of all of this, I think it will be appropriate to repost the disputed text, with the edit that shortening 'generally' contains trans fats. --ABelani 2005-01-05 03:01 UTC
::Since there is no reply, I'm at this time going to repost the previously removed text. --ABelani 2005-01-08 01:22 UTC
:::The text should be removed for two reasons: 
:::First, because it is politically biased.  The statement that "it is well known that trans fat in general is damaging to health..." is not accurate.  It may be dangerous in certain circumstances, and many people may eat unhealthy amounts of it, but saying it is "well known [to be] generally damaging" in unwarranted.  There is definitely debate on this issue.  There are not "hundreds of sources that prove" that contention.  There may be hundreds of sources that claim that to be true, but that does not prove anything.  Let me be clear - I'm not saying trans-fat is healthy.  Nor am I even saying it is not dangerous.  I'm just saying that "well known [to be] damaging to health" is overstated and not appropriate for this article.  Please see the comments of Trevhj. 
:::Second, because it is inaccurate.  For the purposes of food preparation, shortening is any edible fat that is solid or semi-solid at room temperature.  It can be composed of any of a number of different types of fats.  It does not necessarily contain any specific type of fat.  Shortening is not a synonym for Crisco.  Incidentally, even Crisco has been reformulated to avoid trans-fats.
:::I will be removing the sections of text indicated. --DoctorSlaw (talk) 15:47, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Disputed text:

message: "a move which effectively bans partially hydrogenated oils" how so? You could easily use a catalyst which disfavors cis-trans- isomerization, so how the hell does this result in a shortening ban? (The example catalyst apparently yields only 9% trans fats vs. the 66% favored by conformational energies)
--Belg4mit 18:29, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  DK "effective ban" 

message: Quote:  shortbread has a short texture ... well, that doesn't explain much, does it?  Couldn't we correctly say "crumbly"? Maikel 00:42, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: you could say "crumbly" but it should ALSO mention that that word "short" refers to those types of qualities. people should learn what short means here. As an aside, it would be nice if the origin of the word short with this sense was known. Does it come from short in height?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.7.62.36 (talk) 19:36, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Short?

message: I have changed The term "shortening" can be used more broadly to apply to any fat, such as butter, lard, or margarine, used in baking ... to  The term "shortening" can be used more broadly to apply to any fat that is used for baking and which is solid at room temperature ..., and I hope this will be met with all-round approval. Maikel 00:59, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Solid at room temperature

message: moved to template talk page ZiusudraZoon (talk) 23:25, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: comparison table

message: Is there room in this article for information about how store-bought shortening (such as Crisco et al.) are created/manufactured?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.9.131.170 (talk) 20:44, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I plan to add one about the recent reformulations of Crisco. Since the ban on partially hydrogenated oils in food in the US, initiated by the FDA, Crisco has shifted to using fully hydrogenated oils and palm oil in their formula. I plan to discuss the issues with these ingredients in a separate section I plan to add to the article. However, I do believe a section on the manufacturing of Crisco would be very much helpful and would encourage you to write one. Dhruv5510 (talk) 01:33, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Manufacturing

message: Why isn't Copha a substitute for vegetable shortening? From the Copha page: Copha ... is a form of vegetable fat shortening.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Apostrophyx (talk • contribs) 06:59, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Copha isn't "a substitute for" vegetable shortening; it actually is vegetable shortening.  It's the most popular brand of vegetable shortening in Australia. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:39, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Vegetable Shortening – Copha

message: Unfortunately this is an obvious crisco advertisment. It might well be the major brand, but surely not the single brand there is. So why is the entire history of that stuff given in detail but no other U.S. brands even named ? Sorry, but I find this offensive. JB. --92.195.90.21 (talk) 03:58, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: What other US brands?  In the consumer market, the US brands are:  Crisco, several small-ish organic brands, and maybe a store brand if you're at one of the really big chain stores (like Walmart).  Most grocery stores only carry Crisco shortening. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:02, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ad 

message: The article seems very focused on American terminology and practices, and lacks a global perspective. "Shortening" is basically an American term for fats used in pastry making (particularly margarines) and I don't think I've ever seen it used in the ingredients list of a pastry recipe in Britain. There are margerines marketed primarily for use in baking such as Stork but these are not usually referred to as "shortening". --Ef80 (talk) 14:20, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I very much agree the article is US-biased, but I do not think "shortening" is an Amercan term; the SOED  gives a cite in 1823, but it is a generic way of referring to the fat content, so would not be a natural ingredient name. The problem with the article is that is glosses over all history until things happened in America, then we get loving detail. (I ended up here after noticing the weird claim that pie crust was invented in America at Pie in American cuisine.) Imaginatorium (talk) 10:38, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  US centric 

message: — Assignment last updated by Thecanyon (talk) 05:32, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: Technology and Culture