Talk:List of assassinated people

message: Would an individual be considered to be assasinated if he was attacked, stabbed, survived the stabbing, then died later as a result of hepatitis contracted from a blood transfusion following the stabbing?
This incident did happen, namely to Edwin O. Reischauer. The incident is recounted in Douglas Starr's "Blood: An Epic History of Medicine and Commerce"  (though not yet on Wikipedia) 
For additional sources, read here  and User:Orville Eastland
:I actually added someone who had that very thing happen to him - Hugh II of Le Puiset, who was attacked and stabbed, survived, but never really recovered and died a few months later. It's customary to call it an assassination because it was probably an assassination attempt, at least. Maybe it should be removed though...I don't know. Adam Bishop 21:44, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: In the US, I believe it is customary for an assault to be classified as murder if the injuries indirectly lead to the person's death within one year of the attack.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.246.125.93 (talk) 01:43, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Died as a result of assasination attempt (indirectly)

message: Notorious BIG and tupac, assassinated??
I think Chris Rock said it best -- Martin Luther King, assassinatd. Malcom X, assassinated. Now I like biggie and I like tupac, but school is going to be IN on their birthdays. 
I think we should probably take those out. 
Raul654 02:12, 1 Sep 2003 (UTC)
thread_title:  Biggie and Tupac 

message: I suggest adding dates and placing them in chronological, rather than alphabetical, order. Fisk
It's not even in alphabetical order.  This list is in no order whatsoever.  -- Zoe
This is in order of the year when the person is assassinated. What is wrong with that? -- Taku 04:03 Mar 13, 2003 (UTC)
I think that it should be presented in both Alphabetical and Timeline Order, and that all attempted assassinations that failed should be included, as many of these assassinations are related across eras as well as within eras.  The engine should also allow to group them by location as well as issue. dormantideas  15:00 Jan 30, 2012 (EST/DST)  —Preceding undated comment added 20:05, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re-formatting suggestion, part the one 

message: North Korean defector gunned down in Seoul, 1997, supposedly in retaliation for the more recent -- and much more prominent -- defection of Hwang Jang Yop.
Should be added.
Also as "Ri Han-yong" and "Lee Han-yong".  Wiki inconsistent on spelling.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.3.106.4 (talk) 20:05, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yi Han-yong 

message: Why is he listed as a suspicious death? His biography article does not cast any suspicion of sabotage, and just because he died in an aircrash shortly before an election doesn't make it suspicious. His aircrash is hardly in the same category as that which killed the Presidents of Rwanda and Burundi in 1994. Pending a serious objection I will remove him from the list. Dbiv 15:56, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: From the publisher's description of the above-named book: "In the wake of the crash, 69% of Minnesotans blamed a 'GOP Conspiracy' for Wellstone’s death." --Sesel 18:54, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: That opinion poll is not really relevant - note "in the wake of the crash", which can only mean "shortly after the crash" and before any inquiry had been conducted. Likewise, a general suspicion of foul play would not be enough. Any unnatural death of a popular political figure is likely to give rise to such suspicions - witness the theory that Hugh Gaitskell's sudden death in 1963 was the result of a Soviet conspiracy, which has been round the UK a few times. Perhaps the entry should be changed to say "theorized by James H. Fetzer to have been assassinated - see American Assassination ."? Dbiv 19:29, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Paul Wellstone]]

message: The table of contents is way too long.  I think that we still should sort it by the nation of assassination, though, since there are many more additions which could be made here.  I think that we just need to put a  __NOTOC__ tag in here and manually write nicer one.  I've tried, but my attempts don't look to good on the preview page.  Anyone else want to attempt it? --BaronLarf 00:43, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC)
*I seriously think that if this list gets too long (and its starting to get that way) we should seriously consider deleting "red links" ie. links to non-existant articles. Unless there is an article on the assassinated person dont bother to list it. Megan1967 08:04, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Table of Contents 

message: Perhaps there should be a list of "famous people who were murdered". This would resolve the problem. (The former Polish Prime Minister murdered a number of years ago would be included here.)
A "list of suspicious deaths" would become (a) very long very fast, and (b) quickly snarl itself up in claims of POV etc.
Jackiespeel 17:20, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Assassinations and murder

message: I'm going to go ahead and be bold and add him to the list... even though his page allows for the fact that his death may have been a suicide, the circumstances in which it took place (a millitary assault on his presidential palace) make it at the very least an de-facto assassination in my book. ZacharyS 03:40, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Reverted removal of Salvador Allende from list because no reasons were given.  I agree with ZacharyS that his death was (at the very least) a result of the coup, if not an actual murder.  Therefore, it fits the page definition of assasination ("important people who were murdered, usually for ideological or political reasons"). Govus 06:44, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Salvador Allende 

message: What is Hoover doing on this list? Taking him off until someone substantiates this. Daemon8666 16:21, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll leave it for the time being Daemon8666 16:23, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Killed Hoover in the article. His own article does not record any foul play, and there is not mention of this elsewhere. If it is found to be tru it can be added. Daemon8666 16:28, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  J. Edgar Hoover 

message: Lord Cavandish was English and assassinated in Dublin which was part of the United Kingdom. Lord Mountbatan was English and assassinated in Ireland. At the moment Lord Cavandish is in the Irish section and Mountbatan in the UK section. This does not seem consistent. 
Also what about time. Why is there a section for the USSR (BTY why former is there a current USSR? Do we write the former Roman Empire?) Many of the people listed in these lists are placed in a nation state which did not exist when they were assassinated.
For example Germany did not become a nation state until the 1870s so should all the people assasinated in Germany before that date be in the Germany section? --Philip Baird Shearer 10:26, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Time, Nationality and Location

message: I think the death of Ceauceşcu was an assassination. Pasqual's talk (ca) 20:53, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ceauceşcu

message: Was the death of Kurt Cobain considered like an assassination or like a murder? Pasqual's talk (ca) 22:24, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Death of Kurt Cobain 

message: The article lists a Chen Lu as having been assassinated in 1939.  However, the link points to a figure skater who was not born until 1976, and by all accounts, is still alive.  Anyone know enough about this to fix it? --Sns 06:36, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chen Lu 

message: does he count?
I would say no. Remember it is not a list of murders (which can also be debated regarding Hamilton due to modern definitions vs definitions within the time period) nonetheless it is not an assassination given the definition that we have been using on this page so far  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.253.107.81 (talk) 01:10, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alexander Hamilton 

message: This page should really be titled 'List of assassinations by country', comments? sbandrews (t) 19:25, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Name change

message: The current format for the list is absurd considering its length and likely expansion. The articles sub-divisions should be changed from countries to periods in history, there is no sense in dividing by country when countries are so transient. Secondly its length demands that the article should then be split into separate lists based on specific periods.Nwe 17:06, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  major changes needed 

message: What is the qualification for the people who will be posted with their names in this article???
Will we include those who survived assassination attempts???
Furthermore, where will we include the names of those assassinated, in the country where they are killed or where they are born? For example, three Romans are in the Germany section, and Sir Henry Gurney was included in the the Malaysia section. 
Kindly please include those qualifications in the introduction part of the article. -Pika ten10 (talk) 08:43, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confusing... 

message: Unless we use the terms execution and assassination interchangably (which I dont' think we should) Wiwa shouldn't be on the list.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.255.143.104 (talk) 18:59, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: ken saro wiwa

message: I mean no offense to the individuals who took so much time compiling this list, but isn't this incredibly pointless?  Attempting to create an exaustive list is simply futile, given how ridiculously broad the category is, which only makes this list fairly arbitrary.  Seriously, off the top of my head I can see a rather gaping hole in that every single assassination carried out by the IRA during the Michael Collins era is absent.  There is also Reinhard Heydrich, chief of the Reich Security Main Office, a rather important NAZI figure who was assassinated-an event with obvious historical importance.  And that's just off the top of my head and I don't have very much knowledge on the subject to begin with.  If you are honestly going to draw this so broad as to include assassinations of police chiefs or samurai killings in fuedal Japan, the list will only ever serve to demonstrate how pointless it is to even attempt such a list.  Wouldn't it make more sense, and indeed wouldn't serve an actual purpose, if this list were broken down into categories (e.g. 'Assassinations of Heads of State,' 'War Time Assassinations,' 'Religious Based Assassinations,' etc.)?  I mean as it stands it doesn't exactly serve much of a purpose with everything thrown together like it is.  It would be like having an article labled "Every Political Crisis Ever" and  then throwing every nation into the mix and including every war, every insurgency, every fixed election, every time a politician had an affair that went public, and so forth.  There it would be much more helpful for those looking for such information to be able to find "American Political Crises" or "Modern European Conflicts" and the like.  Again, I mean no offense, but I just thought it would be useful to raise the possibility that you are all spending a lot of time on an article that will always be hopelessly incomplete and entirely lacking useful orginazation of information.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jdlund (talk • contribs) 06:00, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why? 

message: At the top of the article, we defined an assasination as this:
"This is an list of persons who were assassinated; that is, important people who were murdered, usually for ideological or political reasons. This list does not include executed persons."
However there can be many "assasinated" people that were simply murdered.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.68.103.133 (talk) 02:45, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Keeping inside the criteria. 

message: The basic details of this list are the individual's name, year of death, and title or reason for notability. The inconsistent inclusion of circumstances (e.g. perpetrator, alleged perpetrator, etc.) includes speculative, possibly POV content. As such, it belongs on the individual's mainspace page, not on this list. Though I'm an Inclusionist, I support adherence to basic criteria and I feel any details here, besides the three facts noted in my opening sentence, are out of place here. I'd appreciate some discussion here. -- Deborahjay (talk) 14:43, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Details of circumstances here? 

message: Why is Kurt Eisner listed twice, as an victim of assasination in Germany as well as in Austria? He was a german citizen and Minister of Bavaria/Germany, I can't see any relations to Austria. --87.166.82.177 (talk) 15:39, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kurt Eisner 

message: I have started to cleanup this list by removing all entries that are redlinked/unlinked and do not have a reference or another linked article that says the person was assisnated.  Have to go for now, will continue to work on it later.  A new name 2008 (talk) 20:24, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I finished what I think is an initial cut through the article.  I also removed the list of suspicious deaths.  If another list needs to be created then someone can create it, but lede of this list says it is a list of assassinated people so I removed it.  A new name 2008 (talk) 00:46, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Starting on second cut through list.  Removing names that the linked articles do not describe nature of death as assassination.  A new name 2008 (talk) 01:22, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup 

message: I think this article is meant to discuss the assasination of real people.  I believe most of the people listed under this section are biblical characters who may or may not have existed or been asassinated.  It would seem that section is presenting biblical text as fact and thus probably fails WP:V . I motion to delete the entire section.  Anyone want to second my motion? NickCT (talk) 15:19, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeh, I agree. Maybe move to List of mythological assassinations? ;) Gareth E Kegg (talk) 19:48, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Gareth, I'm no expert on this, but I think that there is reliable information for at least of couple of these characters actually existing.  I'm a bit hesitant to just blanket delete/move the section b/c we may move something that deserves to be there. NickCT (talk) 20:43, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with NickCT (talk); I changed the subsection header from "Biblical" to "Alleged Biblical Characters"; would that be satisfactory (or something similar to that)?  I think it might be better to leave them here, given the valid point that Nick raised, but put in something that says "alleged" or something like that.  But that's just my opinion. - Ecjmartin (talk) 22:04, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Ecjmartin - Thanks for trying to find a resolution, but I think the whole "alleged" thing is not the right way to go.  By that logic we might include a whole bunch of people who some people alledge were assisinated (if they actually existed at all.  I think the bottom line is that there is either good RS to confirm that someone lived and was assasinated or there is not. NickCT (talk) 02:58, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

text: This is ridiculous.  Eglon and Sisera are legendary, and Holofernes is a fictional character.  The rest are generally considered to be historical, although only some of them have attestation outside the Bible (Pekah is definitely attested; I'm not sure of the rest).  Simon Maccabaeus was not only a historical figure, he doesn't even appear in the Bible.  Most historians consider Samuel and Kings to be historical sources.  It is pushing a very strong POV to say that the later kings of Israel and Judah are "alleged Biblical characters," much less Simon Maccabaeus.  One can find many serious scholarly accounts of the divided kingdom period that take the historical record of the Book of Kings seriously and consider it a mostly reliable historical source.  john k (talk) 01:20, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re [[List_of_assassinated_people#Israel_.28Biblical.29]] - Is it factual? 

message: The organization of this article is totally puzzling.  Is it listing people by the country they were from, or the country they were assassinated in?  Mostly it seems to be the latter, but then Alexander I of Yugoslavia is listed under Yugoslavia, rather than France, so I have no idea.  The article intro doesn't explain it, but the sections themselves imply it's the location of the assassination - "Assassinations in Africa," and so forth.  In addition, I think I agree with the earlier commenter that it would be better to organize this chronologically, rather than by country. john k (talk) 13:23, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Organization 

message: This list seems to generally strive for completeness (obviously not yet reaching it), but for some reason the list for the US isn't complete at all, and guides us to another article.  The section for the US seems to largely exclude politicians, but Lincoln is there. john k (talk) 13:45, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Completeness 

message: Based on the existing evidence, John McCarthy Roll was a bystander in an assassination attempt on Gabrielle Giffords.  He randomly decided to stop by without any planning so no one knew he was going to be there.  He was not the target of the assassination attempt.  Does he really make the cut for this page?  If so, what about the other five bystanders killed in the same incident?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.246.125.93 (talk) 01:39, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  John McCarthy Roll 

message: Why is he included on this list?  I've checked the New York Times archives, and his death notice says nothing about assassination.  There also seems to be no mention elsewhere on the web.  Pixelarian (talk) 20:00, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed it, since the article does not mention anything about his manner of death.  ~~ GB fan ~~ 20:05, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tazewell Tyler  

message: What's the difference between an assassination and an execution? 198.151.130.16 (talk) 03:25, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Operational definition of "assassination"

message: Using the same rationale of the Osama Bin Laden case, I will remove Raul Reyes from this list. For those who do not know, Reyes was the #2 Commander of FARC, a known Terrorist Organisation, and his killing was conducted by the Colombian Government in a military operation. Like Bin Laden, a substantial reward for his capture or killing was offered. This was a targeted killing of an enemy combatant — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jedalonso (talk • contribs) 04:45, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Raul Reyes 

message: Recently, the name of a murdered person was removed from this list (for the second time, now), because the individual doing the removing (and I give them full credit for acting in good faith) was convinced that this person (a priest in Algeria, I believe) was "not important" when he died, but only "became important later."  First of all, we have no possible way of knowing how "important" the murder victim was at the time of his death; obviously, whoever killed him thought he was "important" enough to murder him!  But laying aside this question, which can never be definitively proven one way or the other (as "important" is such a subjective term, anyway), we ought to consider that the victim is "important," today.  Since "important" as used in the opening of this article is never actually defined in terms of then, or now, or both, I think there's a much better case for leaving this gentleman's name in, than for removing it--with all due respect to my collegue who evidently believes otherwise. - Ecjmartin (talk) 18:12, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I have removed the term "important" in the opening to this article; it really isn't needed here, anyway... - Ecjmartin (talk) 18:16, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

text: Excellent change, 8Digits.  Perfectly-worded, now. - Ecjmartin (talk) 15:44, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

text: Sounds like a good idea to me. - Ecjmartin (talk) 12:55, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Important," When??? 

message: I rarely make edits and thought i would have an opportunity to make a note about what i did when i clicked "save". Since that didn't happen, i'll just leave this note here. I found this page with an entry completely out of order (somebody in 2004). So i decided to edit it. While i was at it, i saw that some entries just had years, but no dates, so i added dates to them if there was more than one entry for the same year.
But, i now realize that i made a mistake. I alphabetized MILK before MOSCONE because it was the same date. But, (duh!), MILK was, in fact assasinated after MOSCONE. So, i'll go fix that now.
Sorry for the verbosity. Just trying to help.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Trio (talk • contribs) 01:06, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sorry for no comment on my last edit. 

message: Were the deaths of Gaddafi family members really "assassinations"?  They don't seem to fit wiki's own definition very well. Waleswatcher (talk) 16:57, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Libya 

message: I added George Polk to the Greece section. His killing clearly meets the criteria for the page, as it was obviously politically motivated and he was a public figure of importance. He was trying to interview the communist general Markos Vamvakaris while the Greek government was claiming he had been killed. Also, most historians specializing in Greece, the Cold War, and the Balkans agree that the motive for his killing was the fear that his criticism of US aid to the highly violent and repressive Greek government was jeopardizing their funding and support from the west. ~~BigLou~~  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.210.190.15 (talk) 04:50, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  George Polk  

message: I've made a proposal, at Talk:List of assassinations and assassination attempts#Merge proposal, to merge this page with that one to create a single list of assassinations. If anyone wants to comment, please do so at that page, rather than here, so as to keep the discussion in one place. DoctorKubla (talk) 11:02, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notification of merge discussion