Talk:Battle of Nikolayevka

message: In Italy we call it "battle of Nikolayevka" because the place was named in that way on our military maps. Actually the village has been absorbed in time by the nearby city of Livenka (50° 27' 19 N, 38° 17' 32 E). You'll find Panoramio photos (not mine) by an Italian user as further proof of what I'm writing.
--Basil II (talk) 23:26, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Nikolayevka "doesn't exist"

message: Speaking of the article's title, is "battle of Nikolayevka" the name under which the battle is known in English?  All of the sources are in Italian, and I can't check the book because I don't access to it.  The reason for my asking is that even today there are about 200 places in Russia called "Nikolayevka", and there were undoubtedly many more in the 1940s.  It just seems as an extremely ambiguous and meaningless name to me, and if it's not one that's used in English, perhaps changing it to something more descriptive would be of help?—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 16:41, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No. Do not change the article! The battle is one of the most famous in Italy and changing it's name (under which it is universally known and remembered here) is unacceptable! It is as if you would like to change Battle of Bunker Hill into Battle near Boston - i.e. something which is unacceptable to every American and historically not acceptable too. --noclador (talk) 18:45, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't panic, I'm not planning to change anything; I'm merely inquiring whether the present title is the name under which this battle is known in English.  Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 18:56, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Title

message: It is quite obvious that the Californian newspaper Fresno Bee Republican, on March 3, 1943 carried out a story that was quite positive about the Italian Alpini. If in doubt check: http://news.google.co.uk/archivesearch?q=LAUDS+ALPINE&btnG=Search+Archives&as_ldate=1943&as_hdate=1943  —Preceding unsigned comment added by RadioBerlin (talk • contribs) 00:44, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: how would a Californian newspaper know what happened to Italian troops on the Eastern Front?!

message: I have added data and maps from reliable sources, that a BOT seems to cancel probably by mistake. Hope the BOT-error will not show up again.--LoanP8 (talk) 03:54, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I have difficulties adding a reliable map ( http://i12.tinypic.com/2jd3jtg.jpg ), because of a BOT. If somebody can help....please insert the map in the article. Thanks. --LoanP8 (talk) 04:14, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I have found the way to bypass the BOT! Here it is:--LoanP8 (talk) 03:51, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Bot problems

message: I  condensed the article significantly to remove dubious claims, myths, and POV language, as no sources have been provided since 2013. Please let me know of any concerns. K.e.coffman (talk) 06:39, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent edit 

message: How many axis soldiers? 
In the infobox:8.000 — 9.000. 
In the article "The 40,000-strong mass of stragglers—Alpini and Italians from other commands, plus German and Hungarian Hussars (Light Cavalry)".
Nothing is known about the Soviet side:6.000 (citation needed). Maja33 NL (talk) 12:23, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Strength?  

message: "Needs additional citations" is a gross understatement, since it has none. And almost everything I could find about this supposed heroic battle fit into three categories:
1) Basically copied from this page. (I recommend adding -"as a small part of the larger Battle of Stalingrad" from the lede to your search terms, unless you just want to be darkly amused by how many there are.)
2) Forum talk, widely contradictory, and/or bare claims with no sourcing.
3) world-war-2.wikia.org, which actually makes a decent attempt at looking reputable by apparently listing eight unique sources. The problem is, only three make any actual assertions about the battle. Those assertions fall into:
:a) hagiography
::i. https://web.archive.org/web/20170123051246/http://www.quikmaneuvers.com/italian_army_blood.html has to be seen to be believed.
::ii. the battle was an Italian "victory", sourced to a book published in Italy and dedicated to proving the Italians were great soldiers badly used by the Germans
:b) gross abuse of source ("thousands escaped" in the source becomes all 40,000 of them escaping in the article), and/or
:c) vague heroic anecdotes.
The one solid source I could find on it appears to strongly infer that while a battle/retreat did occur, the version of it being told in this article and elsewhere is just a thinly-fabricated heroic myth - mostly created by the alleged heroes. The Italian War on the Eastern Front.
This appears to be a full-blown urban legend - i.e. an entertaining story that's only "true" because a lot of people are emotionally attached to it, so they keep repeating it. 2603:3023:306:2C00:1422:EC21:364C:DC19 (talk) 07:07, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: "The Italian War on the Eastern Front, 1941–1943: Operations, Myths and Memories". Thank you for the source.Maja33 NL (talk) 14:59, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I redirected the page to Operation Uranus in  this edit. I cleaned up the article a while ago, but the issues appear to be still on-going. --K.e.coffman (talk) 05:51, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  The article offers no sources whatsoever, and bears little resemblance to the few verifiable facts. 

message: I attempted to look for sources, and was able to find this one: The Italian War on the Eastern Front, 1941–1943 Operations, Myths and Memories by Bastian Matteo Scianna (2019). The event is described as part of the mythology around the Italian Army in the German-Soviet war, and was apparently a minor engagement, with one battalion-strength unit and several companies on the Italian side. I've not located other sources. --K.e.coffman (talk) 16:39, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source: ''The Italian War on the Eastern Front'' 

message: I personally don't have any idea how to undo it without bollocksing up the infobox, but this edit is false:
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Battle_of_Nikolayevka&diff=1041069465&oldid=1015930775
As both the original editor and a quick Googletranslate of the source can tell you, the original figures are correct and are specific to this "battle". 2603:3023:81D:100:15C9:6366:2CE6:1809 (talk) 01:37, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  False edit to infobox needs to be undone