Talk:How Many More Times

message: This song has the same bassline as "Smokestack Lightning" by the Yardbirds. I'm fairly sure the two aren't exact, but most bass lines from Smokestack Lightning are the same as the one in How Many More Times.
*Yes, the song evolved out of The Yardbirds' live versions of "Smokestack Lightning," especially the extended versions from the band's final tour in spring 1968.ScottSwan 04:38, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yardbirds 

message: Mention of Albert King has been reintroduced. The lyrical phrase is both pertinent and encyclopedic. It is the lyrical climax of the song and it has a notable source (King). Additionally this reference is reliable. The last removal of this material June 2008 was not explained. Albert King is far more pertinent in this article than mention of Neil Young. Not to diss the Neil Young part of the article; but lets get the priorities straight in what has been included.  - Steve3849 talk 08:08, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It was sung by Albert King and first released under his name (atleast I've found no other prior version). Credited to Booker T. Jones, Al Jr. Jackson, Carl Wells, Donald V Dunn, Steve Cropper: these guys are Booker T and the MGs. It appears they recorded the famous Albert King version as the Stax house band with Albert King singing. Isn't to flat out disassociate this song with King because he did not write it similiar to arguing that "Jailhouse Rock" is not an Elvis song? I've made a correction in the sentence.  - Steve3849 talk 15:47, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The reference is still incorrect because what Mendelsohn said was wrong. A better comparison would be claiming that "Hound Dog" is an Elvis song when in fact it wasn't. If this continues I'm going to propose this be settled by consensus and open up a vote on this talk page. HelenWatt (talk) 00:19, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: "The Hunter" is credited to the band provided to King by the studio for his recording. "Hound Dog" however is different because it was recorded prior to Elvis by someone else. Show me where "The Hunter" was recorded by someone prior to King's studio band for the song (Booker T and the MGs) and I will drop this immediately. It is King's song similar to my example that "Jailhouse Rock" is Elvis' song (Elvis did not write "Jailhouse Rock" and atleast one of the writers is in the recording, yet if in a wiki article one were to reference use of the song as a component of another it is pretty obvious that a mention of Elvis would not be inappropriate, nor cause harm). "The Hunter" was released to King's name. King's version most likely has every one of the credited writers playing on it. Crediting King's recording credits the band on the recording who are the actual writers. Mendelsohn is not wrong.  - Steve3849 talk 15:56, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

text: It's incidental but interesting. The band, Free, also covered The Hunter. Of course Paul Rodgers and Simon Kirke from Free go on to form Bad Company - which is on Zeppelin's label, Swan Song. Later, Rodgers' joins Jimmy Page to form The Firm. 24.252.15.40 (talk) 16:31, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

text: Firstly, the article is wrong, according to the royalty collection agency for the song, Robert Plant did co-write the song, see Ascap, How Many More Times, I think the info box needs changing accordingly. Using Ascap as the primary source, neither Albert King, nor Steve Cropper et al or anybody else get any songwriter royalties for their contribution. The easy solution to the argument is to list writers and performer, if only because I think it is acceptable that Led Zep did know the Albert King version (assuming there are other versions of the song). However, it should be noted that the concept of "copyright ownership" came late to blues music and I daresay neither the Howlin Wolf nor the Albert king songs are as original as being suggested. For a pertinent example think of Sonny Boy Williamson's "Help Me" and Booker T's "Green Onions." It was, and probably still is, fairly commonplace for blues musicians to deliberately "borrow" lyrics and musical motifs for their own songs, nor is it unknown for blues musicians in the earlier part of the last century to be paid a flat fee for a recording and the record label boss grab the copyright on the song. For what it's worth, I think the songwriters should always be listed, when known. --Richhoncho (talk) 08:45, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Albert King 

message: I'm putting this to a vote of consensus. Should Albert King be listed in the article even though he didn't write the song. Vote support or oppose, followed by your user id and date:
*Oppose. HelenWatt (talk) 06:58, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Some additional discussion would be appreciated.  - Steve3849 talk 07:49, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

text: Reply. The "mountain" seemed necessary regarding the several prior deletes and undoes of this material without an understanding of whether such material is genuinely inappropriate. This is only the first time someone has bothered to voice an opinion in favor of adding the material. If the material stays off the page (which the editors with an investment in the article seem to concur) its an easy bet that more people in the future will be innocently re-adding it again ...to be simply undone again (probably without discussion). At least there has been an attempt to discuss the matter this time with an attempt to use correct phrasing and references.  - Steve3849 talk 10:43, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Consensus vote 

message: how is this not listed as psychedelic rock?  have you people listened to this song?  its just as druggy as dazed and confused, if not more.  just listen to it  —Preceding unsigned comment added by PeanutButterBlues (talk • contribs) 04:48, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  psychedelic rock? 

message: "all new Led Zeppelin releases since 1993 have co-credited the song to Burnett via an arrangement with his publishing company, ARC Music"
:Neither the Led Zeppelin DVD (2003) nor the 2014 reissue of Led Zeppelin lists Burnett on the credits. Geoff Mason (talk) 17:14, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Appears someone confused this with "The Lemon Song" probably based on the credits on BBC Sessions. Piriczki (talk) 17:49, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Doubtful claim 

message: (copied from Talk:List of Led Zeppelin songs written or inspired by others#How Many More Times riff):
:The lyrics are clearly based on Howlin' Wolf's "How Many More Years" while the riff is based on another tune by Wolf called "No Place to Go" which had been covered by Fleetwood Mac already on their 1968 debut album. It would be nice to add this info but I'm not sure if there's a reliable source about it. Chapa1985 (talk) 15:31, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Rupert Till (Cross the Water) is the only one to make the connection between Wolf's "No Place to Go" and LZ's "How Many More Times" and only mentions the lyrics and melody.  The rest talk about Wolf's "How Many More Years", the Yardbirds' "Smokestack Lightning", and Farr's "How Many More Times", but don't link those songs to NPTG.  Lewis calls the LZ song "a marriage of Howlin' Wolf's How Many More Years and the Yardbirds arrangement of Smokestack Lightning."  Priddey notes that the LZ song has "an opening bass line that was similar to a former Yardbirds reworking of 'Smokestack Lightning'", which is the only mention of the riff.  Case notes that Plant's and Bonham's Band of Joy performed Wolf's HMMY.  My feeling is that Band of Joy probably were playing Farr's "How Many More Times" (actually "No Place to Go") and Plant used similar lyrics and melody for Page's Yardbirds "Smokestack Lightning" spin-off (but of course, it's OR).  See Talk:The Rain Song#Edit war over cited content for ideas on how to handle this. —Ojorojo (talk) 19:37, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks like things are far more complicated than I imagined when there's not enough sources. Chapa1985 (talk) 20:13, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  How Many More Times riff 

message: I can't place my finger on it, but it almost seems as if the article is about halfway there. LZ didn't release many singles, so this might be hard to track; but I wish there were a way. It may be one of their bests songs. Charts, more reviews, more insight into the creation of the song. Lots more could be added, including more citations. The reviewer comment on strained vocals might be one view; but I hear humor in his voice, almost like he's smiling and almost laughing during performance; and then he focuses again on the person he's singing about. Misty MH (talk) 21:20, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Love this article. Seems like it needs more information.