Talk:Tengu

message: Regarding the recent vandalism, perhaps the article should be protected for a short time. --Oni Ookami AlfadorTalk|@ 05:07, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Misc

message: First off, thanks for the recent addition to the article. However, I cut the following bit:
"Since the use of tengu in these games, the popularity of the creature has increased dramatically and they can be seen with increased frequency in many fictional works, espcially those in the form of fanfics of popular Japanese anime."
The reason is that no source was cited, and this reads like original research. If a source is provided, I have no problem with its inclusion. (Incidentally, I need to provide sources for some of the rest of the material -- I wrote the first big expansion of the article back before I understood to cite sources . . . . --Amcaja 12:56, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks.  I'm taking a look at some of the sites where I noticed these references so that I can make a statistical comparison based on post dates.--Oni Ookami Alfador 01:43, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tengu in media 

message: I have removed this bit twice:
:In the anime and manga, Tactics, an 'oni-eating' tengu is unsealed from the rock by a folklore scholar named Kantaro. The translationed manga (released by ADV Films) changes 'tengu' to ogre. The tengu's name is Haruka, a pun on the phrase 'really strong'-Haruka no tsuyoi. The anime has yet to be relased offically in America (however it is available through fan subs and IRC.)
This seems like too much information on a fairly insignificant piece of Japanese popular culture. It is highly doubtful that someone visiting the Tengu article really cares to read a complete list of every appearance of tengu in popular culture anywhere, let alone a detailed plot outline of such works. If such a discussion is desired, it belongs at Tactics (anime), not here. — Amcaja 16:40, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  More cuts 

message: Flying around in saucer type contraptions, kidnapping with the victim has no memory of the missing time, communicating with telepathy.  Has anybody heard of this?  DyslexicEditor 05:00, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I thought the same thing. If you're a UFO nut, it's evidence of aliens' existence. If you're a scholar, it's evidence of some innate human super-myth that appears in multiple cultures. For us, it's original research, unfortunately. — Amcaja 12:56, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm..  I did a google search for the word Tengu and alien and it found I wasn't the first to have the idea.  DyslexicEditor 14:35, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tengu sound like "Grays" aliens/UFO Abduction 

message: :In Capcom's Onimusha 3: Demon Siege, a tiny tengu named Ako took on the role as the messenger, time-warper and guardian between Oni-Samurai Warrior Samanosuke Akechi that originate from Medieval Warring State Japan, and Special Task Force Jacque Blanc, who was from the Modern Day France, whom found themselves in the opposite timeline respectively, during the Genma's Invasion.
I removed this. I don't have a problem with mentioning Onimusha 3, but the person who added this should probably determine if this reference is more pertinent than one of the others that's listed and replace the less appropriate one. Further, there is no need to go into this level of detail here. Describe this on the Onimusha 3 page, but this page is about tengu in general, and should be kept general. — Amcaja 12:58, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm assuming you meant "decide to add a paragraph"? :) — Amcaja 19:33, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Haha, my apologies, I've had a long day and whatnot.  I fixed my typose now, but yeah you're right.--Oni Ookami AlfadorTalk|@ 05:22, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I just thought it might be a Freudian slip. :) — Amcaja 13:52, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed bit 

message: :A Tengu may strap a monk to the top of a tree or offer them savory foods that transform into excrement when eaten.
The current article is very careful to cite sources. In the interest of maintaining that level of integrity, I removed the above sentence from User:Maria Caliban pending citation. She has been notified on her talk page. — Amcaja 13:57, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Unsourced bit

message: I'm going to change this, as everything in Japanese that I've read says that the konohatengu is a low-ranking, bird-like tengu similar to the karasutengu. It seems that equating this name with the daitengu is an widely-copied error by an English-speaking writer. 
 
Some references, with my translations:
Konohatengu statue based on the work of yokai expert Shigeru Mizuki.
An illustration - A carved image ("koppa" is another pronunciation of the kanji for "konoha")
Entry in the Youkai Denshou Database.
"At the Ooi River, when night falls, something like a great bird with eagle-like wings stretching about 6 shaku comes flying in great numbers. This seems to be a kind of konohatengu."
The Japanese Wikipedia Entry says:
その姿は大天狗や烏天狗と同じく山伏装束で、烏天狗によく似ていると言われている。
"As for its form, like the daitengu and the karasutengu it wears the costume of a yamabushi, and it is said to resemble a karasutengu very much."
Kotengu 00:56, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No problems here. Please be sure to add at least one of those sources to the References section (even if it's in Japanese). — Amcaja 03:11, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Konohatengu

message: Re: [this edit:]
Karasu in Japanese refers to both ravens and crows (and rooks and jackdaws and anything else in genus Corvus) - the best known Corvus in Japan, however, is probably the big, chunky, ravenish Corvus macrorhynchos, commonly called the Large-billed Crow, so "crow" may be the best translation after all. Also I don't know where anyone would get the "raven" translation other than Whitewolf (sigh). 
...anyway now that I look at the current article it looks like the reference to a specific bird type is no longer there - just for future reference, though, the bird tengu were historically associated with was not a corvid so often as the Black-eared kite and other similar raptors. 
I've seen this in various places but here is one reference: 
Mizuki, Shigeru. Mujara 3: Kinki-hen. Soft Garage, 2003. p. 95. 
And here's a [google book search] for English references because I'm lazy. Kotengu 18:33, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Checking the history, it looks like you removed the crow link on 8 May. If you get a chance, add some of the information you've mentioned here into the article. If the bird to which tengu are linked has changed over time (from kites to crows or whatever), that's worth mentioning. — Amcaja 19:38, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, did I? I forget these things too quickly. Anyway I have a feeling the bird-association has evolved (probably by the term karasutengu becoming popularized), I just wish I could find a good solid reference on that. Let me check around... Kotengu 05:09, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ravens and Crows

message: This article is close to GA quality, but not there yet. The lead needs to be expanded to summarize the whole article and adjusted in other ways to meet WP:LEAD. The wording needs to be adjusted a bit to help readers unfamiliar with Japanese culture. In addition, I'd like to see the references improved with more print sources and the publication details (place, publisher, date) provided for existing references. --CTSWyneken(talk) 13:44, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I've wanted to use print sources for some time to expand the article and/or replace the web sources. It's been tough locating anything in English, though. Thanks for the ideas to improve the article. -- Amcaja 14:51, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We're in luck: Google books recently added this article (which I thought I'd never find) to its full-view section - it's pretty much the English language source on tengu which everyone else references. A few pages are out of order though; I'll try to get the fixed PDF I made online somewhere soon. Kotengu 07:18, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How do you download the thing? — Amcaja 07:29, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well now that I've got it uploaded you can download it here. The google site still has the advantage of being searchable though. Either way I'd kind of like to volunteer to rewrite the article myself, as it's kind of my pet subject and I have access to some Japanese sources as well. Kotengu 20:49, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Dōzo. I'll help out if and where I can. — Amcaja 22:35, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well it took a couple weeks of cobbling together in my sandbox, but it's finally done. Kotengu 小天狗 09:06, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good Article Nomination failed 

message: A tengu is featured in the anime Megaman.EXE (Rockman.EXE in Japan). A Net Navi named Tenguman operated by Master Teng-Fian (Fuuten Roushi) appears not only in the cartoon, but in the video games aswell [[IMG]http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d21/Kouhaisparrow/beast17-screen363.jpg[/IMG]]
(From a school computer:)
Another place I've seen them-- IIRC, two of the shikigami/summons from Yami no Matsuei (Decendants of Darkness) are based on tengu (though considerably better-looking). I don't have the manga on hand to check their names/if they're explicitly stated to be tengu, though, and the anime cuts off before the arc they appear in.
Still, it't a fairly safe bet, seeing as most of the other shikigami are based off of mythilogical creatures and gods.
:(though considerably better-looking)
:BOLLOCKS. Real Tengu are much prettier than manganime bishōnen. Seriously though, do we need to make a separate article for pop-culture here like was made for Kitsune? This is getting out of hand. Kotengu 00:37, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. What would be nice is if WP:JAPAN made a guideline/ruling that pop culture sections are to be avoided unless thoroughly sourced from secondary sources, the way WP:MILHIST has done. Maybe that'll happen, but it would be a tough sell. -- Amcaja 01:26, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's worked reasonably well for Kitsune, and I've repeated it at a couple of other pages (Kappa, Oni, Tanuki).  Ideally we'd have these sourced.  Realistically, though, they tend to keep creeping back in.  Splitting that material from the folklore material might not be ideal, but it keeps it off the main page, still leaves it accessible for those interested, and requires a minimum of upkeep compared to just deleting it.  One of those compromises I live with in order to spend less time on maintenance and more on actual contribution of some sort. Shimeru 22:14, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tengu in modern culture 

message: An amazing article. It shows that a lot of work has gone into it. It is excellently structured, easy to read, the references are impeccable, and the images are superb. 
Fred-Chess 12:54, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pass GA 

message: just wondering  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.141.27.254 (talk) 08:58, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference? 

message: In Jules Verne's Around the World in Eighty Days (Chapter XXIII), Phileas Fogg's servant Passepartout, having been separated from his master on the journey to Yokohama, takes employment in the acrobatic troupe of the "Honourable William Batulcar", wherein the performers wear "a false nose six feet long" and "vari-coloured wings", in honour of their patron "the god Tingou".
An example of tengu mythos as seen through the cultural filters of a 19th century Frenchman?
86.131.246.167 (talk) 10:35, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible tengu reference in Western literature? 

message: I forgot the title of the bit, but Tengu are also in a game called guildwars both the original and guild wars 2
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Tengu
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tengu  1.123.17.132 (talk) 06:38, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Guildwars 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 6 external links on Tengu. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070123023921/http://www.nezu-muse.or.jp/syuuzou/kaiga/10363.1.html to http://www.nezu-muse.or.jp/syuuzou/kaiga/10363.1.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070123023931/http://www.nezu-muse.or.jp/syuuzou/kaiga/10363.2.html to http://www.nezu-muse.or.jp/syuuzou/kaiga/10363.2.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070927210513/http://www1.bbweb-arena.com/baron/tengu.html to http://www1.bbweb-arena.com/baron/tengu.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120203091459/http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~qm9t-kndu/saijoji.htm to http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~qm9t-kndu/saijoji.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061231142539/http://web-japan.org/kidsweb/folk/tengu/tengu.html to http://web-japan.org/kidsweb/folk/tengu/tengu.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070609181322/http://dbs.humi.keio.ac.jp/naraehon/ehon/index2-e.asp?frame=False&id=KL044 to http://dbs.humi.keio.ac.jp/naraehon/ehon/index2-e.asp?ID=KL044&FRAME=False
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: In the book entitled Tengu Geijutsuron, known in the west as "The Demons' Sermon on the Martial Arts" (supposedly written by the 18th century samurai Issai Chozanshi and perhaps one of the finest pieces of literature on the Tengu theme), the translator, Mr. William Scott Wilson, states in the introduction that the founder of Aikido, master Morihei Ueshiba, received some of the martial arts secrets from the Tengu on Mt. Kurama. John Stevens, a scholar and writer of Aikido, and a teacher of Buddhist studies, also claims in two of his books, "The Secrets of Aikido" and "The Invincible warrior", that the founder of Aikido not only learned from the Tengu, but frequently took his closest students to Mt. Kurama, and taught them in the place he believed to be the site where Ushiwakamaru learned from Sojobo. 
Unfortunately I don't have the links for these statements, but I have read them in the past in all the mentioned books. I suggest the writer of the main page to do a closer research, for this I believe makes the whole Tengu "mythology" much closer to present day! Also, in the Shinto tradition of Shugendo, the Yamabushi monks perform fire and water purification rituals of noted shamanic Hindu origin, making use of medicinal plants and the like. There is a chance that the origins of the Tengu "myth" might be connected to some transcendental visions and experiences, as is the case with most shamanic tribal traditions in the world, from the Maoris in New Zealand to the Yanomami in the Amazon forest.
The undeniable connection between Shintoism and Hinduism can be observed in this link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff95twceJR4
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.250.119.238 (talk) 05:54, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aikido and the Tengu 

message: I feel like there should be more info on Tengu in pop culture, like there is in the article on Kitsune. An example of a Tengu in pop culture would be in Ace Attorney: Dual Destinies, in the episode "The Monstrous Turnabout", where civilians believe a Tengu named Tenma Taro exists, as well as a kitsune. (Tenma Taro was not real, and was a myth to prevent stealing a treasure. Damian Tenma, mayor of Tenma Town, temporarily claimed he was Tenma Taro, but was actually, in fact, taking the place of the kitsune.)
Quartz24 (talk) 15:31, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tengu in pop culture 

message: Hi, I'd like to ask a question regarding sourcing examples of Tengu in Pop Culture.
What do we do about media where the characters are explicitly tengu in either appearance, dialogue, or theming? So much so, that them being tengu would not warrant writing an article on it unless the article was specifically about examples of tengu in popular media?
 I understand the importance of proper sourcing and having a secondary source to verify, but I'm not entirely sure if that's practical to do in regards to providing examples of characters that are straight up the traditional Japanese tengu compared to characters with designs inspired by tengu.
 
 I'd also like to ask if it would be acceptable to post a Japanese website as a secondary source for examples of Tengu in Popular Media. 
 Sorry for the trouble, thank you. IceFairy9999 (talk) 07:25, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regarding sources in the Tengu in Pop Culture section. 

message: The current reference is to a wiki for a Touhou mobile game, not the wiki for the series itself. 
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Tengu 
This page would work much better as the reference 94.122.187.112 (talk) 23:36, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference for Tengu in Touhou Project