Talk:Nero/Archive 1

message: I watched a DVD on Nero last night. Got it at the local blockbuster. I found out there is a Wikipaedia entry for the movie Nero. It may not be accurate 100% historically but probably worth a link from the main Wikipaedia entry for Nero. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lakamsani (talk • contribs) 16:32, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Nero DVD

message: Where did the name Tiberius Claudius Nero Domitianus Caesar come from?
I think it is wrong or at least very unusual.  The names of Nero are known as:
*Lucius Domitius Ahenobarbus (at birth)
*Nero Claudius Caesar Drusus Germanicus (at adoption)
*Nero Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus(when Emperor) 
*Imperator Nero Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus (later during his reign)
CharlesS 09:40, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: His adopted name was Nero Claudius Caesar Drusus Germanicus. Nero had been used as praenomen since the time of Tiberius' brother Drusus the elder (whose name was Nero Claudius Drusus). Germanicus probably had this praenomen before his adoption by Tiberius, as did his son Nero Caesar. Here is an aureus issued under Claudius showing Nero's name. Sometimes the Caesar was left off as in this sestertius. The praenomen Tiberius had already been taken by Britannicus. I'm sure Domitianus was probably at the end but left unsaid. LaurenCole 21:22, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Name

message: As far as I can see Nero's participation in the Olympic Games is not mentioned
at all. This article only hints at his travel to Greece (where he stayed for
more than a year). Instead, Nero's artistic preference is slightly exaggerated. 
Nero even forced Olympia to postpone the games so he could participate, and
of course did he win - and was rewarded with the laurel. 
The Greeks even erected a villa for him on the holy grounds of Olympia.
The foundation and some mosaics and frescos can still be found there on
the archaeological site and in the museum. 
Besides - I'm not really sure what to make out of all these citations
and historical sources. Do these long paragraphs of cited texts really belong into
a encyclopedia? A short summary or a reference should be good enough - 
not to mention the fact that some of the translations are just.. awful. 
--Guo 23:51, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nero and the Olympic Games 

message: Today my history teacher told the class that Nero awarded himself 1800 medals at the Olympics, can anyone confirm or deny this?
:No, I can't, but you might as well get something useful out of that: (1) see if you can find out where they read that (if they read it at all and not just made it up); (2) ask them what their source was: that's the first thing a historian does. Aha, you tell me X; now tell me how you know it.... 
:"Medals" is exceedingly unlikely, by the way, since medals are an invention of the modern Olympics: in Antiquity, victors got crowns of various foliage. But loosely speaking, one might say "medal" to get something across to a class. 1800 is also unlikely, since there were very few events compared to modern Olympics, and Nero didn't last long enough to get 'medals' in many Olympic Games: but then just maybe he managed to make them award him more stuff than there was available. On balance, my guess is the story is fabrication or at least gross exaggeration. Good luck tracking it down: it's what historians do for a living! Bill 02:29, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: 1800 medals at the Olympics?

message: Why in each of the topics in the Nero in ancient literature section does "main article" link to this very same Nero article? I keep this for posterity, but I realize that they are directed to parts of the site that for some reason no longer exist, the sections on Jewish Tradition, Christian Tradition, New Testament, and Later Christian Writers. In the past couple of days the following disappeared:
Jewish Tradition
At the end of 66 conflict broke out between Greeks and Jews in Jerusalem and in Caesarea. According to a Jewish legend in the Talmud (tractate Gitin 56a-b) Nero came to Jerusalem and told his men fire arrows to all four corners of the earth (wherever they fired, all the arrows landed in the city). Thus he realized that the Lord had decided to allow the Temple to be destroyed. He then asked a passing Jewish child to repeat the verse he had learned that day (a common Talmudic method of telling the future). "I will lay my vengeance on Edom through the hands of the my nation Israel [for destroying Jerusalem]..." (Ez. 25,14) said the child. Nero became terrified, realizing that the Lord would punish him for destroying his Temple, saying to himself, "God wants to destroy his people and wipe his hands clean of me." He then fled Rome and converted to Judaism to avoid such retribution[3]. Titus was then dispatched to put down the rebellion - this led to the wholesale massacre of many Jews, the destruction of Jerusalem (the last remnants of the insurrection died at the stronghold of Masada). The Jewish tradition reconciles this view of Nero with that of Roman historians by alleging that they could not abide the idea of a Roman emperor converting to Judaism, and therefore made up the story of his insanity and subsequent suicide.
[edit]
Christian Tradition
Because of Tacitus's claim about Nero blaming the fire on Christians, Christian tradition paints Nero as a first persecutor of Christians and the killer of Peter and Paul.
The Bible gives no indication on how or when Peter or Paul died. The bishop Eusebius of Caesarea (275-339) was the first to write that Paul was beheaded during the reign of Nero. Yet, other accounts have Paul traveling to Spain and Britian during this period. Peter is first said to have been crucified in Rome by the apocryphal Acts of Peter.
[edit]
New Testament
Some religious scholars, such as Delbert Hillers (John Hopkins University) of the American Schools of Oriental Research and the editors of the Oxford & Harper Collins translations, contend that the number 666 in the Book of Revelation is a code for Nero[4], a view that is also supported in Roman Catholic Biblical commentaries. [5] [6].
[edit]
Later Christian writers
    Main article: Number of the Beast
Sibylline Oracles, Book 3, allegedly written before Nero's time, prophesies about the Anti-Christ and identifies him with Nero. However, it was actually written long after him and this identification was in any case rejected by Irenaeus in Against Heresies, Book 5, 27–30. They represent the mid-point in the change between the New Testament's identification of the past (Nero) or current (Domitian) antichrist, and later Christian writers' concern with the future anti-christ. One of these later writers is Commodianus whose Institutes, 1.41, states that the future antichrist will be Nero returned from hell.
Was this the result of that idiotic vandal with the 216 ip address or was it someone else. A deletion like that should have an explanation (if not a discussion) on the talk page. Valley2city 02:28, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nero in ancient literature: Link to self? 

message: In the overview section of the article, it states that Nero banned the killing of gladiators in Rome. However, the book I have just finished reading, "100 Great Live of Antiquity", states that he thought of banning it, but was in fact persuaded not to by his advisors as this would displease the Roman people. Does anyone have a citation for that claim, & if no one objects, I'll change the text to my reference's claim if no one can find one. If there is a cited claim for him banning the killings, then we could do the ol' "Some historians say he did ban the gladitorial killings, whilst others say he was told not to...." Thanks everyone, Spawn Man 04:43, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Went ahead with the new text. Posted this here for a few days, so I assume that it's okay... Spawn Man 03:07, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gladitorial dispute 

message: Though I am completely in favor of highlighting the individual prejudices of Nero's biographers (both sympathetic and critical, is there a way we can condense this?  The section on his biographers now takes up nearly 1/3 or the article. Djma12 20:00, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll work on condensing.  I think a big problem with the whole article is that big quote chunks take up so much room.  Hoshidoshi —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.162.143.21 (talk) 22:15, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe we can make the whole controversy with Nero's biographer's into an entirely different article, then link to that in a "Historians" section?  That way, we don't need to scrimp on fully detailing indivdual biases, and we don't take up 1/3rd the article with block quotes.Djma12 02:02, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Commentary on Historians 

message: Under Matricide and consolodation of power it says of Octavia's death:
In 62 Nero's adviser, Burrus, died.[47] Additionally, Seneca was again faced with embezzlement charges.[48] Seneca asked Nero for permission to retire from public affairs.[49] Nero declared a divorce to Octavia on grounds of infertility, leaving him free to marry Poppaea.[50] Octavia suddenly died on June 9, 62. To consolidate power, Nero executed some of his few remaining relatives that year as well-
Am I the only one who thinks this is underplaying her death somewhat?  According to her own page Octavia was banished by Nero which resulted in discord among the populace, enough to make Nero reconsider marrying her.  After Poppaea convinced him not to remarry, he signed Octavia's death warrant, having her killed as if she had committed suicide and her head then being sent to Poppaea.  It sounds as though she didn't "suddenly die".  Shouldn't it perhaps be corrected to include her execution and banishment?  Saying she "suddenly died" doesn't really elude to her alleged exeuction, it sounds more like confirmation she either died of natural causes or did commit suicide but her own Wiki speaks of it firmly as being an execution. I think clarification on the event would be useful to keep both Wikis consistent. --Emperor Wu 15:23, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point, I fixed up the section.  Octavia was a big enough deal for public protests.  Her execution should be mentioned. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.162.143.21 (talk) 19:10, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Octavia "just died"?