Talk:Walter O'Malley

message: The main reason I failed this is because it's too short. I'm not an expert in the subject, so I don't know exactly how it can be expanded, but it needs to be made longer. Especially the death section. Hanuab 04:47, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Failed GA

message: Unfortunately, this article doesn’t meet the requirements for GA status at this time. Here are some comments about what this article does and doesn’t do well, and suggestions to improve it.
:GA review (see here for criteria)
#It is reasonably well written.
#:a (prose):  b (MoS): 
#:: 
#It is factually accurate and verifiable.
#:a (references):  b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR): 
#:: 
#It is broad in its coverage.
#:a (major aspects):  b (focused): 
#:: 
#It follows the neutral point of view policy.
#:Fair representation without bias: 
#:: 
#It is stable.
#:No edit wars etc.: 
#:: 
#It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
#:a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):  b (appropriate use with suitable captions): 
#:: 
#Overall: 
#:Pass/Fail: 
#:: </div>
*the article lacks broad coverage of O’Malley’s life; a.k.a. there’s not as much information as there should be if it were to be GA status. He’s an importance person in baseball history, so one idea is to see if you can look at any books about him…who knows, maybe your local library might even have one.
*Please add the Persondata template to the article. --TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD)  20:11, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA Review #2 

message: This article's Good Article promotion has been put on hold. During review, some issues were discovered that can be resolved without a major re-write.  This is how the article, as of January 19, 2008, compares against the  six good article criteria:
:1. Well written?: Pass. But some issues, see below.
:2. Factually accurate?: Pass.
:3. Broad in coverage?: Some issues, see below.
:4. Neutral point of view?: Some WP:UNDUE issues though, see below.
:5. Article stability? Pass.
:6. Images?: Pass.
The article, including the lead, needs to address more the move to LA and all the emotions and sense of betrayal and sense of changing the course of baseball.  One sports column I found at near random, here, captures it better than this article, for example.  Additional comments:
*Relationship with Branch Rickey needs more development.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD)  19:32, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Good article nomination on hold

message: Copied from User talk:TonyTheTiger:
There's really no need to mention his HoF selection in the lead (apart from the way it was awkwardly phrased); it's a posthumous career honor, akin in many ways to the Hollywood Walk of Fame. Koufax, Cobb and Clemente (the only HoFers with FA or GA status) all were elected in historic circumstances (first player elected, youngest player elected, posthumous special election/first Latin American player elected), and it seems reasonable to only mention the Hall in the intro if the individual's selection was similarly remarkable; besides, there are some HoFers with A-class article status who don't have the HoF mentioned in the lead. MisfitToys (talk) 22:55, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: First you are performing WP:OR saying one HOFer is not quite equal to others.  In addition, I have never seen a WP:GA or better HOF article without HOF mentioned in the WP:LEAD.  The first several HOF articles I have clicked on all had them in the WP:LEAD.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM)  23:32, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not actually saying that one HoFer is not equal to others (although really, the members are not equal in accomplishment, and I don't think anyone would argue that they are); I'm simply saying that some elections are more noteworthy than others, which is simple observation. Casey Stengel and Goose Goslin, for two, don't have the HoF mentioned in the lead. I suppose I'm not completely opposed to mentioning it in the intro, but it should really be at the very end rather than the beginning if it's going to be there. We should primarily explain why he was important; pointing out that he's in the Hall simply notes that he was important without explaining why. MisfitToys (talk) 23:49, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: As I've noted, there are very few articles for HoFers (only six) that have achieved either FA, A or GA status - too small a group to draw broad conclusions about what is necessary to achieve that level, or about what should be uniformly included in the intro. The BioProject for actors, etc. has a guideline about avoiding mention of awards in the opening lines (I'll add that honorary Academy Awards are only occasionally mentioned, usually as a minor note); something similar is noted in the guideline at Wikipedia:WikiProject Films/Style guidelines#Lead section, though that applies to titles rather than bios. (And saying that O'Malley "oversaw" the breaking of the color barrier is something of an overstatement; he was the Dodgers' legal counsel at the time, and hardly instrumental in making the decision or carrying it out.) My point is that election to the Hall doesn't actually make anyone more important than they already were; if they were important, then other relevant facts are more useful in illustrating that. Again, if it's to be included in the lead, it should come at the end (especially since the honor was posthumous), after the various accomplishments that led to his selection are covered. As for the Walk of Fame, it's true that recipients have to pay for the installation and upkeep, but they have to be selected first; it's definitely not simply an honor or recognition that can be bought, as Who's Who appears to be. MisfitToys (talk) 22:22, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Now I am counting seven Sandy Koufax, Roberto Clemente, Ty Cobb, Cy Young, Happy Chandler, Ozzie Smith and even Veteran's committee selection Dan Brouthers.  All use it in the lead.  Comparing baseball bios to movies is like comparing actors to baseball stadia.  While a movie may not need award-winning in the lead, a stadium doesn't either.  Bios are different.  I don't know what guideline you are talking about for actors, but I know almost all GA, A or FA actresses that have won awards say so in the lead.  I have been involved in debates at WP:FAC, WP:GAC and WP:GAR over this exact matter.  What guideline are you talking about?  By the way, do you feel O'Malley was given an honorary HOF membership as opposed to a normal election?  If so you are mistaken.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM)  18:49, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

text: I concur with Bugs. It ought to be mentioned in the lead. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 19:33, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed, it should definitely be in the lead, no question. Wizardman 19:45, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

text: Count me in with those who think it should be in the lead. If you want to make a comparison to Hollywood, perhaps a better one would be an actor who has won an academy award -- as a reader I'd expect that to be in the lead.--Fabrictramp | talk to me 20:32, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see why it shouldn't be included in the lead, there's no way he has so many higher achievments that it isn't included... because there really aren't any higher acievements. If you're concerned about "awkward phrasing", then re-write it. Blackngold29 22:45, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: HOF in LEAD debate

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thread_title:  Image listed for deletion 

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