Talk:London Borough of Croydon/Archive 3

message: cur) (last)  01:35, 18 March 2006 Dieter Simon m (Reverted edits by 82.40.188.233 (talk) to last version by 203.152.122.109) 
Have reverted edits by 82.40.188.233 to the last version by 203.152.122.109, as that para looked terribly incomplete. Can someone in the know check the data 82.40.188.233 included? If all OK please edit to what it should read. Couldn't leave it like that, as it looked wrong. Dieter Simon 01:45, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Temporary revert

message: I have reverted this section, at least for the time being, as it looks to me very much like some kind of vandalism. This broad statement, that Islam is the largest religion in the town just cannot be correct, as the number of Christians, practising or non-practising, as well as those who come from Christian background, together with other-religious members of the Croydon population, must still be much higher than the number of Muslims in the borough. It is true, Muslims do attend religious services frequently and consistently, but you really have to support these statements with evidence and substantiate the actual number and percentage of the population attending services within each religion. Bald statements without these figures to support them will not do, I am afraid. Sorry. Dieter Simon 00:36, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Religion 

message: Is someone making a distinction here between one part of Croydon and another? Where would you expect Croydon's main town centre to be? In Bromley? People who live in Thornton Heath live in Croydon, so do people in Selsdon, Sanderstead, Addiscombe and Purley, as well as many other former "villages". I used to live in Purley and never was there any doubt in all my many years there that I was living in Croydon. Dieter Simon 23:41, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not a well crafted statement, but I think it alludes to the district known as Croydon being the principal district of the London Borough of Croydon. A problem faced all over London where one district has the same name as the borough. I don't read it as (intentionally) derogative to other areas, it's where the larger shopping areas, the town hall and highest density of office space is. Kbthompson 11:56, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ignore, my text was completely wrong! Smoothy 12:29, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think these two articles, Croydon and London Borough of Croydon, need a good old edit, or at least need to be co-ordinated. When you look at the sections of well-known people, do we really need two lists of people associated with Croydon in the articles? In the list "Notable people from Croydon town" (Croydon article) for example, I am sure you are not following that same principle. I am sure they don't all come from Central Croydon, and almost certainly come from all over the various "villages", most unlikely that any of them either live or were born in the centre of Croydon. If so then someone should have the courage of their conviction and say so. I don't think we can have it both ways. Dieter Simon 01:09, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, I've long doubted the suitability of notable people listed in the town article, but never got round to sorting it out. A good example is Ronnie Corbett: he just should not be there as I think he's only ever been associated with Shirley. I think all the people should be moved into the borough article.--A bit iffy 08:45, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would agree, create a referenced list (some of these associations are more than just a bit iffy), recording any specific association with local districts. If it gets long enough, spin it out into a separate article. Kbthompson 10:56, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Croydon's main town centre is Croydon itself?

message: An anonymous user keeps vandalising the council election result section, the names  of the elected members, and the name of the mayor in this article. If this continues, the user's IP will have to be softblocked. Dieter Simon 23:26, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism to this article

message: Party	councillors
     	43
     	27
     	1
     	0
As you can see, I've changed the writing which said the name of the party, to the logos of the parties, since some of the writing is hard to see. There are still links to the respective parties, on the numbers, which I hope will be clear enough. I have also put the Liberal Democrats on the table with 0 number of councillors, as this is seen as a major party, and is important to note that there is no longer a Lib Dem councillor. Pafcool2 18:52, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Box, Croydon Council 

message: :Image:Sitelogo.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 07:38, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Sitelogo.gif

message: Some of the links to London Borough of Croydon are inadequate, some links don't go to the correct pages and some language wikipedia's don't even have all of the language distinction links, for example:
 *nl:Croydon (district)
Is the correct link for the Deutch (Netherlands) language, although some wiki's have 
 *nl:Croydon
Which links to the town of Croydon, this issue needs to be addressed. I've already done a few, but don't have the time or patience to carry on. Plus i've added a new article for the borough at et:Croydon, a new language link that i've added plus i have formalised the article for the french entry at fr:Croydon.
:Also, if anyone has any language experiance in languages that don not yet have an London Borough of Croydon article, create one now! Of course (don't bug me on NPOV), we all want the Croydon article to be the best London borough article, so we need to raise the profile of the borough on some other languages and formalise in others. Thanks. Pafcool2 14:49, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: great news! This article is now avaliable in 20 different languages, the most for a London Borough at the moment, thanks to new enties in Latin, Italian, Spanish and Indonesian. Pafcool2 12:49, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  links to other language wikipedias 

message: I wish to pay tribute to the sterling work Pafcool2 has contributed to the Croydon articles. Well done. Dieter Simon 23:24, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Good work, Pafcool2

message: The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.
*Please expand the lead to conform with guidelines at Wikipedia:Lead. The article should have an appropriate number of paragraphs as is shown on WP:LEAD, and should adequately summarize the article.[?]
*Per Wikipedia:Context and Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates), months and days of the week generally should not be linked. Years, decades, and centuries can be linked if they provide context for the article.[?]
*Per Wikipedia:What is a featured article?, Images should have concise captions.[?]
*Please convert tables from HTML syntax to Help:Table wiki-markup.
*Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (numbers), there should be a non-breaking space -   between a number and the unit of measurement. For example, instead of 000m2, use 000 m2, which when you are editing the page, should look like: 000 m2.[?]
*Per WP:WIAFA, this article's table of contents (ToC) may be too long- consider shrinking it down by merging short sections or using a proper system of daughter pages as per Wikipedia:Summary style.[?]
*There are a few occurrences of weasel words in this article- please observe WP:AWT. Certain phrases should specify exactly who supports, considers, believes, etc., such a view.
**it has been
**might be weasel words, and should be provided with proper citations (if they already do, or are not weasel terms, please strike this comment).[?] 
*Please make the spelling of English words consistent with either American or British spelling, depending upon the subject of the article. Examples include: neighbour (B) (American: neighbor), meter (A) (British: metre), recognise (B) (American: recognize), criticize (A) (British: criticise), ization (A) (British: isation), isation (B) (American: ization),  aging (A) (British:  ageing), any more (B) (American: anymore).
*The script has spotted the following contractions: doesn't, don't, didn't, if these are outside of quotations, they should be expanded.
*As done in WP:FOOTNOTE, footnotes usually are located right after a punctuation mark (as recommended by the CMS, but not mandatory), such that there is no space in between. For example, the sun is larger than the moon [2]. is usually written as the sun is larger than the moon.[2][?]
*Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.[?]
You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, APR t 12:37, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Peer Review 

message: As you may have seen, there is a template for the climate of Croydon and Gatwick: 
Climate of Croydon and Gatwick                                                                                                                                                                                                                      	Climate of Croydon and Gatwick                                                                                                                                                                                                                      	Climate of Croydon and Gatwick                                                                                                                                                                                                                      	Climate of Croydon and Gatwick                                                                                                                                                                                                                      	Climate of Croydon and Gatwick                                                                                                                                                                                                                      	Climate of Croydon and Gatwick                                                                                                                                                                                                                      	Climate of Croydon and Gatwick                                                                                                                                                                                                                      	Climate of Croydon and Gatwick                                                                                                                                                                                                                      	Climate of Croydon and Gatwick                                                                                                                                                                                                                      	Climate of Croydon and Gatwick                                                                                                                                                                                                                      	Climate of Croydon and Gatwick                                                                                                                                                                                                                      	Climate of Croydon and Gatwick                                                                                                                                                                                                                      	Climate of Croydon and Gatwick                                                                                                                                                                                                                      	Climate of Croydon and Gatwick                                                                                                                                                                                                                      	Climate of Croydon and Gatwick
Month                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               	Jan                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 	Feb                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 	Mar                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 	Apr                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 	May                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 	Jun                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 	Jul                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 	Aug                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 	Sep                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 	Oct                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 	Nov                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 	Dec                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 	Year                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                	
24-hour averagetemperature°C (°F)                                                                                                                                                                                                                   	3.8(38.8)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           	4.0(39.2)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           	5.8(42.4)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           	7.9(46.2)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           	11.3(52.3)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          	14.4(57.9)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          	16.5(61.7)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          	16.1(61.0)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          	13.8(56.8)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          	10.8(51.4)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          	6.6(43.9)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           	4.7(40.5)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           	9.6(49.3)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           	
Rainfallmm(inches)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  	77.7(3.1)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           	51.1(2.0)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           	60.2(2.4)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           	54.1(2.1)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           	55.3(2.2)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           	56.6(2.2)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           	44.8(1.8)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           	55.6(2.2)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           	67.7(2.7)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           	73.2(2.9)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           	77.6(3.1)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           	78.9(3.1)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           	752.1(29.6)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         	
Atmospheric pressurembars (inches)                                                                                                                                                                                                                  	1007.0(29.74)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       	1008.5(29.78)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       	1006.6(29.72)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       	1008.8(29.79)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       	1007.4(29.75)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       	1009.8(29.82)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       	1010.2(29.83)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       	1009.9(29.82)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       	1010.3(29.83)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       	1008.6(29.78)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       	1009.4(29.81)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       	1008.4(29.78)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       	1008.7(29.79)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       	
Source: WorldClimate (Temperature data) (Rainfall data) (Pressure data) Temperature and rainfall: 1961–1990 averages.  Pressure averages: 1971–1988 averages.Derived from the Global Historical Climatology Network (version 1).	Source: WorldClimate (Temperature data) (Rainfall data) (Pressure data) Temperature and rainfall: 1961–1990 averages.  Pressure averages: 1971–1988 averages.Derived from the Global Historical Climatology Network (version 1).	Source: WorldClimate (Temperature data) (Rainfall data) (Pressure data) Temperature and rainfall: 1961–1990 averages.  Pressure averages: 1971–1988 averages.Derived from the Global Historical Climatology Network (version 1).	Source: WorldClimate (Temperature data) (Rainfall data) (Pressure data) Temperature and rainfall: 1961–1990 averages.  Pressure averages: 1971–1988 averages.Derived from the Global Historical Climatology Network (version 1).	Source: WorldClimate (Temperature data) (Rainfall data) (Pressure data) Temperature and rainfall: 1961–1990 averages.  Pressure averages: 1971–1988 averages.Derived from the Global Historical Climatology Network (version 1).	Source: WorldClimate (Temperature data) (Rainfall data) (Pressure data) Temperature and rainfall: 1961–1990 averages.  Pressure averages: 1971–1988 averages.Derived from the Global Historical Climatology Network (version 1).	Source: WorldClimate (Temperature data) (Rainfall data) (Pressure data) Temperature and rainfall: 1961–1990 averages.  Pressure averages: 1971–1988 averages.Derived from the Global Historical Climatology Network (version 1).	Source: WorldClimate (Temperature data) (Rainfall data) (Pressure data) Temperature and rainfall: 1961–1990 averages.  Pressure averages: 1971–1988 averages.Derived from the Global Historical Climatology Network (version 1).	Source: WorldClimate (Temperature data) (Rainfall data) (Pressure data) Temperature and rainfall: 1961–1990 averages.  Pressure averages: 1971–1988 averages.Derived from the Global Historical Climatology Network (version 1).	Source: WorldClimate (Temperature data) (Rainfall data) (Pressure data) Temperature and rainfall: 1961–1990 averages.  Pressure averages: 1971–1988 averages.Derived from the Global Historical Climatology Network (version 1).	Source: WorldClimate (Temperature data) (Rainfall data) (Pressure data) Temperature and rainfall: 1961–1990 averages.  Pressure averages: 1971–1988 averages.Derived from the Global Historical Climatology Network (version 1).	Source: WorldClimate (Temperature data) (Rainfall data) (Pressure data) Temperature and rainfall: 1961–1990 averages.  Pressure averages: 1971–1988 averages.Derived from the Global Historical Climatology Network (version 1).	Source: WorldClimate (Temperature data) (Rainfall data) (Pressure data) Temperature and rainfall: 1961–1990 averages.  Pressure averages: 1971–1988 averages.Derived from the Global Historical Climatology Network (version 1).	Source: WorldClimate (Temperature data) (Rainfall data) (Pressure data) Temperature and rainfall: 1961–1990 averages.  Pressure averages: 1971–1988 averages.Derived from the Global Historical Climatology Network (version 1).	Source: WorldClimate (Temperature data) (Rainfall data) (Pressure data) Temperature and rainfall: 1961–1990 averages.  Pressure averages: 1971–1988 averages.Derived from the Global Historical Climatology Network (version 1).
but I am going to change it to this in accordance with Wikipedia:WikiProject Climate soon. Pafcool2 17:57, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, since this is based on the weather stats for Gatwick (?) and generalised to the whole of London, would it not be better to make this a London-wide template, but then since the figures are only recorded from one location, would it not be even better to create a separate London climate article that could be referred to from every London borough article? Kbthompson 14:58, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Sorry, I missed your reply. Accepted, but I believe the weather observations for all of them are done at Gatwick. Maybe it's something that requires further investigation. Kbthompson (talk) 23:27, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Template:Climate of Croydon and Gatwick]] 

message: I note that pafcool has recently reverted image size changes made by Reagan. I have no particular view on this, but larger images will certainly dominate 840 px width screens (less of them, these days, but a lot of smaller screens in - say - libraries and schools); there must be some compromise that will work on 840, 1040 and 1200 screens? Kbthompson 14:58, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I use a mixutre of 20" iMac, 12" iBook and 17" Vista / XP machines.  The only way everything displays properly is when it is put in thumb or frames with no pixel sizes.  From the WP:MOS 'Some users need to configure their systems to display large text; forced large thumbnails can leave little width for text, making reading difficult.'  This is the mess the images and article are now in - see right.  and   If people are happy with that, so be it, but the lack of accessibility and poor readability that leaves will preclude a GA or FA status. And these shots are on a clean Firefox 2 installation (latest version) with no extensions.  They don't happen when desized and thumbed. Regan123 15:06, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You forgot to mention that the default size applied when the set size is not specified can be user defined! But the problem ultimately lies with the HTML specification itself, not with pafcool trying to design 'a good user experience'. Kbthompson 15:28, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed it can, which is why the MOS calls for no article defined image sizes - leave it up to the user to define it for themselves is the principle.  I have edited articles where the image size issue has annoyed me, but the MOS is there and we can't just ignore it.  This article has multiple problems with the layout at the moment, which have been mentioned in the peer review above.  I was trying to resolve them in the simplest way. Yes HTML is not perfect, but there are plenty of FA articles that work with it well. At the moment, this article cannot be described as a good user experience, sadly. Regan123 17:29, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

text: For my part, I have begun to accept the advice in articles I have edited (when I saw you start doing this). I take it under advisement as to whether it should be a rule though. Kbthompson 17:42, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going to hold off for a week, but if the layout is still causing problems by then, I will come back and have another go to resolve the problems. Regan123 17:47, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Actually the MOS is quite clear.  There has to be a specific reason not to do it.  And my four week old iMac is perfectly new as well.  We don't write for one browser.  The page layout is a mess and it needs fixing using the standardised guidelines from the MOS.  I will look at this at the weekend. Regan123 18:33, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Imagesize

message: This article is too long and two repetitive. I think I counted three separate references to Taberner House being compared to the Pirelli tower.
Also some of the paragraphs are way too long. I've split one of them up, but several of the others need attention. --rossb 13:11, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some pruning needed 

message: I think it's about time we archive this talk page again. After the GA review which is kind of...well...big. I would do it but just to make sure someone else should. Also add to the new archive box i've added to the first section. Pafcool2 (talk) 19:46, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A good idea, maybe knock back to stuff discussed in the past month? Kbthompson (talk) 23:29, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archive