Talk:Buôn Ma Thuột

message: * The ideal solution, would be restore to Buôn Ma Thuột (in accord with the upgrade of WP's Vietnam articles to full Vietnamese spelling in 2008-2009 and consensus in WP:Vietnam before one user moved 800 Vietnam geo articles counter the geo names RMs at Talk:Cà Mau. This would satisfy ༆ (Yig Mgo), and Labattblueboy's comments above. The solution "city" while supported by sources, is not as ideal as the original state of the article. However it could not be restored to the original state due to edit to redirect "locking" undiscussed move 15 July 2012, one of several 100s of redirect locks (cf. the Hockey Names saga) in July 2012 locking the 800 undiscussed geo articles moved counter the counter the geo names RMs at Talk:Cà Mau. As regards sources:
:This book (2011) appears to be 100% of recent English texts in Google Books enabled to carry Vietnamese fonts, to argue that a name appears without Vietnamese full name in books that don't use Vietnamese fonts is equivalent to arguing that we should follow USA Today/Daily Express/etc. to name French, Czech, Turkish cities (which of course we don't do, 100% of en.wp geo articles are at local Latin alphabet spellings despite the limits of more popular sources). For older books, as per Keith Weller Taylor The Birth of Vietnam Page xv (1991) "I have relegated Vietnamese diacritics and Chinese characters to the glossary to avoid expensive composition. It is impossible to identify and pronounce Vietnamese words without diacritics, so readers familiar with Vietnamese are encouraged to consult the glossary for the correct spelling of a Vietnamese word upon its first occurrence in the text." - "avoid expensive composition" (1991) no longer applies in printing nor applied to the crowd-sourced way en.wp's Vietnamese geo articles were created and upgraded 2007-2011 before the undiscussed moves. During this period, as far as I know, no article was moved from Vietnamese to a-diacritic stripped spelling. As the Talk:Cà Mau RMs show.
Also, Google Books isn't the only source:
* Journal of Geology (2009) "However, the water demand of households residing in type A houses is close to consumptions reported for the Vietnamese city Buôn Ma Thuột.
* Governance, Development, and the Responsive–Repressive State in Vietnam (2010) - Taylor & Francis "The next day, thousands more marched from several directions toward Buôn Ma Thuột, the capital of Đắc Lắc, the province adjacent to Gia Lai."
* Death, Buddhism, and Existentialism in the Songs of Trịnh Công Sơn JC Schafer - 2007 "... His father, active in the resistance, was imprisoned in Buôn Ma Thuột, and Trịnh Công Sơn lived with him in Thừa Phủ Prison for a year in 1949 when he was ten years old." 
In ictu oculi (talk) 04:44, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: *You cite books, and they all have plain English titles without diacritics (except for the last one, which is surely not a widely-read book—remember that Wikipedia is supposed to be a widely-read, usable, and accessible website). You are saying that the books use diacritics in the body text. That is not what is being discussed here. We are discussing whether it is appropriate to use diacritics in the title of an English article (or an English book, for that matter). LittleBen (talk) 04:51, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

text: *As might be expected, the J. C. Schafer book (with the diacritics in the title) does not exist on Amazon. There is a similarly-named book by one David Loy. Amazon says that people who read David Loy's books also read books by Thich Nhat Hanh and also books by Thîch Nh?t H?nh (if you look to the right of the Thich Nhat Hanh bio.) ;-) LittleBen (talk) 15:53, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: K. You're right, "stable" isn't the word (removed), "consensus" would be the word. en.wp's 900 or so VN geo articles were created with/upgraded to diacritics 2006-2008. Seems to have been a natural process, all going one way and lots of geo article creators working together. And as per the Talk:Cà Mau RMs 2010, 2011, 2012. And as per the majority on last month's RfC - there's no point holding a RfC if you're then going to say "but that isn't the result I wanted." In ictu oculi (talk) 00:51, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: You have cited VGP stories to support the use of diacritics in several RMs. Now that they have switched to a diacritic-free style, you may reconsider your position. VGP was based on the prime minister's website. Perhaps Dung was dissatisfied with VNA and decided to create his own news agency. Now even Dung must endure with an anglicized name, as you can see here. Kauffner (talk) 02:28, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Kauffner, do you understand the difference between 23 and 16? If even by canvassing WikiProject Conservatism for your RfC last month you couldn't raise a majority for removing full Vietnamese spelling then you do not have a mandate to remove all the VN geo articles. Do you understand that 23 is not the minority here? In ictu oculi (talk) 04:07, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: All of a sudden, you don't know how an RFC works. Perhaps WP:RFC can help you out. If you believed this argument yourself, you have made it in the edit summary for this move. Geography titles come under WP:PLACE, as I have explained before. Kauffner (talk) 06:13, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

text: I would support dropping "city" in the title simply because there is no province, town or village with this name, and also the official name doesn't inlcude "city" like Ho Chi Minh City, Mexico City. ༆ (talk) 20:12, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Counterproposal: restore to [[Buôn Ma Thuột]]

message: See here. Kauffner (talk) 17:35, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Reverse canvassing