Talk:Hasan-i Sabbah

message: I am a little concerned about the fact that the "Life and Work" and "Ismaili Perspective" sections are separate from one another. By doing so, instead of creating a neutral point of view about Hassan-i-Sabbah, one instead creates two opposing and drastically different views about the subject. Furthermore, the "Ismaili Perspective" appears to be discredited by the the fact that that it is under a separate section from the "Life and Work", which makes it seems that the first section is correct and the Ismaili section is not.  I know that this was not the objective,  but that is just how it comes across. Perhaps something should be done to merge the two articles. Suggestions are welcome. --R.suleman 02:49, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Absolutely - the 'Hashish' story is a myth.  The most authoritative work on the 'Assassins' is by Dr. Farhad Daftary - The Assassin Legends: Myths of the Isma‘ilis, London: I. B. Tauris, 1994; reprinted 2001..  This is the best work, as it references the greatest number of primary sources.  The largest collection of manuscripts regarding the Ismailis can be found at the Institute of Ismaili Studies in London  where Daftary is a director.  They have a short paper on the book on their web-site which is well worth reading (and should be a reference to whomever is going to re-do this article) . -- anonymous 28 March 2006
A very good point. I was mystified by the tone of this article. The first half of this article seems to be an almost adoring portrait of what seems like an impressive man dedicated to a search for spiritual truth and honour (if a little harsh and austere here and there!). The second suggests he and his followers were just ruthless killers. Very disorientating. ThePeg 17:55, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section ordering 

message: This whole section seems dramatized and possibly plagarized.  Also it contradicts other parts of the page when it says that they smoked Hashish.  I would recommend getting rid of that section all together but someone may want to salvage it.--216.162.88.226 17:33, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: At the very least it is redundant with some parts. I'll trim it sometime soon. --SparqMan 23:15, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Assassins 

message: The name "Hassan" is spelled in (at least) three different ways (Hassan, Hasan, Hæsæn), for no apparent reason (at least to me). Is that deliberate/proper?
[Might I suggest that one spelling be selected and the others, if at all valid, be mentioned in parentheses probably before the persian).]
:-- 213.84.38.42 06:59, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spelling consistency 

message: With all due respect (and there is plenty, given the length of this article), this article is biased and its references are properly unmade. I have done a tiny part in correcting this; I may due further work on this article, or I may not. Take upon thine-on-self. Jpipkin42000 10:29, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  General Messiness Concerns 

message: The title for this article seems to be incorrect (although with the complete lack of reference, it's not the only thing wrong with it!) "Hassan-i-Sabah" makes it sound like it's one-word. But from the Persian, I can only assume that the correct spelling should be Hassen-i Sabbah, or Hassan-e Sabbah.
Google search:
* "Hassan-i-Sabah" - 602 
* "Hassan-i-Sabbah" - 47,000
* "Hassan-e Sabbah" - 157
* "Hassan Sabbah" -  14,000 
* "Hassan Ibn Sabbah" -  4,660 
* "Hasan-i Sabah" - 2,410 
So my assumptions seem to be correct that at the moment, the title needs changing, I propose that it should be changed to "Hassan Sabbah" or "Hassan-i Sabbah" --Rayis 23:54, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Title 

message: I'm going to be bold and dramatically trim the trivia section. I don't think we need to list every instance in which the name "Hassan-i Sabbah" is used in popular literature, movies, games, etc....  A book which names a character "Hassan-i Sabbah", but represents him in a historically inaccurate manner is not describing the Hassan-i Sabbah of this article, and thus it does not belong here.  The same goes for video games. Basically, this section is just junking up the article and is very unencyclopedic.  Per WP:TRIVIA, please feel free to re-add the information if it can be incorporated in the main body of the text.  AlphaEta 04:28, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The "Hassan in popular culture" section has become trivial and ridiculous

message: It is clearly stated in most sources present in this article that his father was an Arab (and claimed Yemeni decent (as with the Early Life section. Why on Earth does it mention he is a Persian in the text? Is this more changing of historical alterations, inaccuracies and denial by Persian Nationalists for their racist agendas? Being born in Persia by no means makes him a Persian. 
As presented by such people in discussions with the case of Avicenna, Arabisation, language and generally taking up of a new ethnic identity halfway through life does not count for anything - a person's ethnicity counts on there geneological origin. So using that same logic, that makes Hassan-i Sabbah an Arab due to his father's (claimed) geneology, so I changed the opening intro. Please discuss here before changing if you disagree, as my claims are sources by the very sources those Persian Nationalists used for their ridiculous claims.
Peace. SaSH (talk) 11:56, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Read the source. Qom was a centre of ARAB settlement. His father was an immigrant to Persia from an Arab city, Kufa. He claimed Yemenite descent, thus a Qahtanite Arab. His mother was also Arab. Stop trying to pervert facts and history to gain false glory to the Persian people.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.30.225.88 (talk) 23:11, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Its really ironic calling us racists. His mother was persian and through the process of growing up in iran he was culturally persianised like the timurids 2.185.213.206 (talk) 14:10, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Arab Father 

message: Removed entire "Legacy" section. The documentation was not from good primary sources. Most 'information' was speculation, POV, and some was propaganda. There is plenty of good source material in the "Reference" and "Further Reading" sections. Tapered (talk) 10:21, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Major Excision

message: I have reverted recent unexplained deletions/changes. After some searching I found no reliable source stating Hassan as Persian. Therefore, I will be taking information from Lewis and Daftary sources stating Yemeni/Arab. If there are any concerns over this issue, I would expect a discussion before any changes to his ethnicity. --Kansas Bear (talk) 21:13, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent unexplained deletions/changes 

message: I'm going through and trying to research the sources behind a lot of these "citation needed"'s, and as I'm doing so I'm struck by the fact that many of the geographic boundaries are being described with modern state names, with "Iran" being used a synonym for "Persia."  While there are many similarities between the two, the boundaries, both territorial and cultural, are not the same now as they were centuries ago and more modern history books tend to avoid this.  Unless someone objects, as I go along I'm going to change anachronistic geography to what's in the history books (ie. Iran => Persia). The Cap'n (talk) 18:14, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Additionally, the lede is extremely brief and leaves out his violent resistance against the Saljuq Empire, his emphasis on Persian culture and general insurrectionist behavior.  In short, most of the things that make him such a fascinating and important historical figure.  Succinct ledes are great, but this one may be a little too succinct; it leaves the impression that Hasan was little more than a missionary. The Cap'n (talk) 17:16, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sourcing and States 

message: Can someone with knowledge of the subject and who also has a decent standard of English please take care of the incomprehensible google translation stuff in the article.  1812ahill (talk) 03:16, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Terrible English 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The title of the page is "Hassan-i Sabbah", but the very first sentence spells his name as "Hassan-e Sabbah" and claims that the spelling "Hassan-i" is incorrect.  I'm a bit skeptical of that assertion:  in my experience, transliterations are seldom correct/incorrect, just better or worse.  Regardless, if true the article should be renamed.
Can we please get a ruling on this from an authority on Persian?
98.110.113.134 (talk) 23:48, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The '-e' is modern Persian, whilst the '-i' is Classical Persian (and is also used in Middle Persian as well). So 'Hassan-i Sabbah' is more correct in this instance, since he lived in the late 11th-century. --HistoryofIran (talk) 11:15, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Correct transliteration of name? 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
* 
Participate in the deletion discussion at the . —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:06, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion 

message: Recently a sentence about the sons of Hassan being killed was removed by an IP due to a lack of citation and it is "only alleged". I am sure there are citations to support these statements, but I am also sure they are rumors handed down. I looked for information on this and found the sons of Hassan were mentioned in the 14th century work Jami' al-tawarikh as translated by John Andrew Boyle titled  This tells the complete story:
Since this was all published some 200+ years after the death of Hassan it is questionable if this should be included. I am putting this here so people can see the source of these tales. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 23:20, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sons of Hassan-i Sabbah 

message: Is there a particular reason that the article uses "Rayy" instead of the standard "Ray"? The article Ray, Iran doesn't use "Rayy" at all and Rayy redirects to Ray, Iran. Some sources like Britannica use "Rayy" but this simply appears to be a choice in transliteration and is not a more ancient form of the name. Laval (talk) 12:16, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: The spelling used for the name of the article is most likely the most common name. The spelling "Reyy" is mentioned in Ray, Iran#name as an alternative spelling. I have no objection to changing it, but no desire to do it myself. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 03:19, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Rayy/Ray