Talk:Timeline of the Plame affair

message: I addressed the wikify complaints, I think, and removed the template. Please restore it with comments if you disagree. --agr 17:40, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Wikify complaints

message: Opened article at Plame affair which takes material very various other articles, but, like Watergate or Iran-Contra affair and others, details this major issue apart from any specific person or persons. Articles on individuals are too limited to deal with these matters. Excellent time line here -- most useful and intersting, well done. Calicocat 05:43, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plame affair 

message: I'm wondering if the editors of this timeline might consider changing its name to "Plame affair timeline" so as to run parallel with Plame affair?  I think the word "scandel" can be a bit charged and perhaps be called "POV" etc.  Thoughts? Calicocat 15:31, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: My dictionary defines "scandal' as "an action or event regarded as morally or legally wrong and causing general public outrage." I think that is appropriate for this story. At the time the leak happened, both sides of the political spectrum in the US expressed strong outrage and there are laws against disclosing classified information in general and agent identities in particular. People with security clearances sign contracts not to reveal classified information even by confirming newspaper stories. "Affair," on the other hand has a strong sexual connotation, at least in American English, and there is more than a whiff of sexual politics in this matter. (Wilson's report is to be discounted because his wife may have gotten him the assignment. Huh?) --agr 13:28, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Totally incorrect. The word "Affair" means -- 1) Something done or to be done; business. 2) affairs Transactions and other matters of professional or public business: affairs of state. 3)a) An occurrence, event, or matter: The senator's death was a tragic affair. 3)b) A social function. 4) An object or a contrivance: Their first car was a ramshackle affair. 5) A matter of personal concern. 6) affairs Personal business: get one's affairs in order. 7) A matter causing public scandal and controversy: the Dreyfus affair. 8) A romantic and sexual relationship, sometimes one of brief duration, between two people who are not married to each other. (emphasis added). Many press accounts have adopted the Valerie Plame Affair, so Plame affair is just a bit shorter and more in keeping with Wikipedia policy on article names.  The assertion that Plame sent Wilson is a debunked GOP talking point.  Historical precedent in the U.S. -- Iran-Contra Affair. Plame affair is more neutral than "Rovegate" or other such "gate" slang term harkening back to Watergate. An existing article with the name Plame affair is related to this article, so in the interest of parallelism, Plame affair seems a logical, neutral, natural selection. Calicocat 19:52, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

text: Of course "his wife sent him" is a discreditd talking point, but what was its subtext? What difference would it have made if it were true? Note that this article appeared first. Plame affair should consider changing. Compromising an agent who was trying to stop the spread of WMDs is a scandal if there ever was one. --agr 20:23, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggest name change 

message: Currently this article has a time-line for 'major events' and another for 'reactions'... yet in many cases the reactions ARE the major events.  For instance, the White House denials of involvement appear in both timelines.  Likewise, numerous entries in the 'major events' timeline ONLY describe the reactions and statements of various people.  I think we should combine these into a single time-line. --CBD 14:39, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why TWO Timelines? 

message: An article in the Washington Post gives summary of where things are in Plame affair. Several points herein should be useful to Plame scandal timeline and Plame affair article development. What Did the President Know? Washington Post, Mon. 23 July 2005 Calicocat 00:18, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  What did the president know? 

message: I think it would be helpful to have sections of summary notes for each major section of the case and then a kind of overall, brief summary of all the events. We have a date index, I'd like to also see some functional index,-- FBI interviews, CIA calls for Special Prosecutor, Fitgerald appointed...and so on. This might compliment work being done at Plame affair and other related articles, such as Karl Rove, Yellowcake forgery.  What do you think? Calicocat 13:27, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Period summary, overall summary. 

message: What is the fascination with Walter Kansteiner?  Is there some conspiracy theory I'm not aware of?  As I read Wilson's book, Wilson got routine clearance from Kansteiner, Kansteiner's boss, and the ambassador before going over, but the repeated references to him make it sound as if Kansteiner played some important role in the timeline.  If he did, I sure can't tell what it is.
--TheronJ 03:31, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Walter Kansteiner 

message: The information on the Nigerien embassy burglary is poorly sourced and conflicting.  The Christian Science Monitor says that an actual burglary occurred in 1991, during the Presidency of the George H.W. Bush.   A muckraking piece in Republica says that a 2001 burglary never occurred at all, but was staged by Nigerien conspirators as an excuse to report letterhead stolen, if the following blog translation is accurate. .  Both are too speculative to include in a definitive timeline without a contemporaneous source.  However, if someone can find a contemporaneous news account of either the 1991 or 2001 burglary, or thinks that they're relevant and wants to take a crack at qualifying how believable the sources are or aren't, that's fair.
------
See the correction to this article in the Washington Post.  The Post has clearly examined the issue of the two different dates and come to the conclusion that the 1991 date is wrong and the 2001 date is right.  I think the Post can be considered to be credible, so I re-inserted the item in the timeline.
-- JPMcGrath, 2005-12-01, 04:45 UTC
::So should we remove the 1991-date source?  Æµ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 03:07, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nigerien Embassy Burglary 

message: Why on earth is David Kelly's mysterious suicide included on a timeline of the Plame affair?  Unless someone can make sense of this it should be deleted.
: The connection certainly seems very remote to me:
# Someone leaked the name of Valerie Plame.
# Valerie Plame is married to Joe Wilson.
# Joe Wilson went to Niger to investigate possible attempts to purchase Yellowcake.
# The Yellowcake was supposed to have been for Iraq's nuclear weapons program.
# Iraq involvement in biological weapons was also being investigated.
# David Kelly participated in that investigation.
# David Kelly committed suicide.
: Can anyone suggest a closer relationship?  -- JPMcGrath 02:57, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  David Kelly? 

message: Many of the items in this timeline do not have sources after them (see Dec. 2002 through Mar. 2003, e.g.).  What are the verifiable and reliable sources for each item in the timeline? Every item, not just some items, needs verifiable documentation.  Otherwise, it is not possible for readers to verify the accuracy of the entire timeline. Due to the considerable number of missing citations, and the inability of other readers and editors to check the verifiability of many items listed in this timeline, I have added a tag to the article today. --NYScholar 22:10, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Missing sources for items in this timeline?

message: After spending a lot of time trying to work on this "timeline," it emphatically strikes me that it needs much re-organization into one coherent bulleted list of dates, organized chronologically throughout (not topically).  The topical organization after the initial chronological organization is confusing.  It should read as a complete chronological "timeline."  I would appreciate others attempting to cut and paste the timeline so that it is not repetitious and reads fully chronologically, as a "timeline" should read.  In doing such revision, please do not lose the sources and please try to develop the notes fully. Many of the sources cited by earlier editors are now broken outdated links and URLs that have either been deleted from website archives or changed.  Better sourcing is needed for this "timeline" throughout.  If people can work collaboratively (without editing wars or further controversies) on correcting these problems, thank you. --NYScholar 01:50, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Organization (Re-organization) of the "Timeline"

message: I've provided several links to authoritative published reliable sources if people need further help with editing and re-constructing this timeline more accurately, consistently, and legibly. --NYScholar 04:11, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: External Links

message: The citations format is not up to Wikipedia standards.  There are missing citations throughout and statements have no sourcing at all.  Sources given need proper identification (author, title, publication, date published, date accessed, and so on) and verification as well as evaluation in terms of notability and reliability.  This article still needs much editorial work.  I do not have time to do any more.  I suggest that others step up to do this work.  This article is not currently reliable. --NYScholar 22:47, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Missing citations, cleanup still needed

message: Originally posted in November 2006 and still pertinent in February 2007. --NYScholar 00:07, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Current tags

message: Please see updated comments in #Suggest name change and request move proposal(s)--and archived discussions and archived talk pages re: the names--at Talk:Plame affair.  Thank you.  --NYScholar (talk) 07:00, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Previous section (updated)

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BetacommandBot (talk) 20:31, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Cheneysnotes.jpg

message: Regarding "the Bush Administration's action in leaking Plame's identity", who then was the leaker? Was it Richard Armitage? Or Karl Rove? (Surely not Scooter Libby?)
This article gives a mountain of data, but (even allowing for increased dimwittedness as I approach my 50s) I don't think it's easy to find a molehill of useful knowledge. --Uncle Ed (talk) 19:54, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Identity of the leaker

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified