Talk:Teutonic Order

message: Added USD and Euro figures to the indemnity paid by the knights.  Perhaps the first noted currency should be Euros, since I suppose it would make more geographic sense in present-day terms?
--Aeranis 00:32, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Currency in GBP-only in Decline Section

message: Hi! I think this needs some large updates, The Order is currently working from Romania, I have proof in the form of the Registration Letter from ANAF (National Agency for Fiscal Administration) Serial No : 1295651
I also have a letter from the Bank in Romania where they keep bank accounts. And I also have a proof of registration from the Romania Judiciary Oradea Civil Section.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shingetsutan (talk • contribs) 07:28, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Update needed 

message: The Teutonic knights up till recently have been given very bad press. In many respects this is due to more recent historical events such as WWI and WWII. After researching them on my own, I have come to the conclusion that they were not the blood thirsty and savage men that propaganda has painted them as. William Urban's book on them is a very good rexamination of the Teutonic Order, their purposes and their history. Linking the order to the Waffen-SS is not only unfair but completely inacurate. The Ordenstaat was the only real nation that middle ages Western Eupore could state to have. In many ways the Knights were ahead of their time in their ecomonic, political, and military ideals. They were inarguably a very effective military force in the Baltic, there decline was inevitable though with their confrontation with a united Poland-Lithuanian kingdom and the reformation of the church. The fact that the TK started looking to domains outside the control of the major European monarchies after the fall of the Outremer is a direct result of the attack and aboltion of the Templars. Remember the TK had adopted the rule of the Temple. Seeing that a military orders could come under attack from monarchs must have prompted the knights to seriously looking to switch their focus away from the middle east, to areas like the Baltic where they already commanded a strong presence. The fact the switched their capital from Venice to Marienburg in 1314 (I think that is the correct date) must be compared to the fact that last Templar Master was burn in 1310. This article also states that the Teutonic Order was only granted the Prussia as a fief until the end of the conquest. That is throughly untrue the TO was granted all territory that they won as a fief forever, not only by the Poles but by the HRE Frederick II and the Pope. Aside from that Poland never had controlled Prussia anyway, so the saying to the victor go the spoils would seem very correct. I'd appreciate any other views or corrections on my opinions.
J.A. Kuehn July 7, 2005
:I have read Urban's "The Teutonic Knights" and Christiansen's "The Northern Crusades", both mentioned on this Talk page. Urban's book had some interesting reading in it, but it seemed more of a general survey of the knights. He did not seem to add a great deal of insight to their story, and he seemed a little too forgiving of their actions. I preferred Christiansen's book which, although covering a much wider time period and more groups, seemed to be more thorough. I do agree that the knights have gotten a bad rap to some extent, but they still weren't Noble Peace Prize winners.  It's important to look at their actions and the actions of their neighbors in their time period, not be today's higher standards. Whether or not the knights truly received rights from Konrad or the Emperor over the land they conquered is disputed, if you did not know. Olessi 8 July 2005 02:03 (UTC)
From everything I read Frederick II Hohenstaufen did give the TO rights over the territory they conquered which included the Grand Master being given the status of a prince in the HRE and given representation in the Riechstag. As to Konrad of Masovia I might have been mistaken in the claim that he also gave the knights the rights to the territory conquered. But I seriously dought he expected the knights expend the energy conquering Prussia if they did not expect to reap at least some sort of land from the deal. But I agree that the knights were not Nobel peace prize contenders. Their entire mission in the Baltic and Prussia especially was forcible conversion by the sword. Still compared to other major powers of that day they weren't all that bad. Remember also that because of the TO Europe experience some of the lowest grain prices of the Middle Ages primarily due to the TO stockpiling grain while prices were low and selling when they were high. They did this with the help of the Hanseatic League.
Jak1985
I'd like to write a more extensive preface about the founding of the order and its (several) names, a special section devoted to the organisation of the Order, a list with bailliffs in the Holy Roman Empire etc. etc.
Regards,
Dear Anon: be our guest. My only advice is that you register first, so we can more easily know who is doing the edits. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 10:25, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rexamining the Teutonic Knights 

message: Why is this article categorized as a state of the Holy Roman Empire? Although the knights received privileges from the emperor, their territory was never included within the empire, AFAIK. Is this article categorized as such because the Grand Master had a vote on the Reichstag? Olessi 17:30, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I have found a few maps that do depict their Prussian lands within the borders of the Empire up through 1466. Olessi 22:39, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: William Shepherd's atlas lists several of them: ,, Olessi 00:27, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Category 

message: The Wikipedia Help Desk received a message from a Wikipedia user Rian Woolcott about a missing  shield:
I had noticed that on your website, that when I was looking up the Teutonic Knights that you were missing one of the shields or coat of arms. I have seen this shield in the book called, "The Chronicle History of Knights" and also a website under 
Just thought that it could help.
He also sent a copy of an image for uploading but I thought I would wait until people on this page suggested it was necessary. I will also send instructions on uploading images. Capitalistroadster 04:39, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Tnx - the more images, the merrier.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 04:42, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Teutonic Shield

message: The Teutonic Knights did not exterminate the local people. Thats a filthy lie. You can in almost every book, even from polish authors, read, that they were integrated into the new german tribe of Prussians. Its true, that there were longholding uprisings against the knights, but the baltic Prussians did not as much suffer as you might think. Why do you think, there were so many supporters between local inhabitants? Did you ever hear about the Vitings (in german: Witinge)? They were freed paysans and they served even before and after the battle of Grunwald loyally to the Teutonic Order. I read many books about the colonisation of Prussia. The people came mostly from Prussia itself. The other two large groups were Germans and Polish. As it was the time, when large areas in whole Europe were colonized, you might discern, it wasn't so easy to find people for a distant countryside. Ill give you some titles you can read for better knowledge. By the way, who says, that the Prussian territories should be Polish? The Prussians were Baltic tribes, not Slaws. Küstenkind
*Boockmann, Hartmut, Der Deutsche Orden, Munich 1981, 
*Erlen, Peter, Europäischer Landesausbau und deutsche Ostsiedlung, Marburg 1992, 
*Biskup, Marian/Labuda, Gerard, Die Geschichte des Deutschen Ordens, Osnabrück 2000, 
(The last one is translated from Polish)
:I have no idea what you are talking about. Teutonic Order raped whole Prussia, those who did not convert were killed, they did exterminate the local people. There is not such thing as German tribe of Prussians, only German population which was resettled into Prussian region taking over it's name. If they would integrate then their language and culture would not extinct. Do you know what tactic did Teutonic Order use against the Prussians? Burn everything to the ground. There was not many supporters between local inhabitants.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by KTTdestroyer (talk • contribs) 18:54, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe you exaggerate. Hyperbole has no place in an encyclopaedia. The Order made up only a small amount of the population of Prussia. Prussia had many petty nobles, burghers and peasants, most of which were native, although there was some immigration from Germany. There were also Languages and cultures go extinct all the time, and history is full of examples of invaders assimilating and integrating with the natives, and not killing all of them. Take for example; the Anglo-saxons in England. Most English people have some Celtic ancestry. Tinynanorobots (talk) 04:09, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Not according to genetic studies.  There is a sharp separation between Celtic nations and Anglo-Saxon descendants in Great Britain.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.111.60.40 (talk) 17:09, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extermination 

message: Is the name Dobrzyń used in English texts?
Xx236 12:52, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Do some searchers and tell us.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 13:56, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Witold is Vytautas the Great 

message: This article paints the Teutonics knights during their activities in Europe, not mention their activities, as benevolent.
It is documented fact that the knights lost all excuse for attacking Lithuania after that country's official conversion to Christianity.  It is also documented fact that the vicious attacks by the Teutonics knights on Lithuania continued because by this stage they could not give a stuff about "converting pagans" (not that they had the right to do that with violence anyway) but motived by purely mercenary desires, and addicted to a life of violence and plunder.
It is highly objectionable to paint this order and their activities at this time as benevolent.
This article also talks about Lithuanians and Poles being "aggressive" and attacking the Order, which is a complete joke because it was the other way around.
Codman 07:56, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You make a good point. I am looking forward to your revision of the article. But please cite your sources.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 16:29, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Samogitia by Charles Pichel.  (I believe that's the correct spelling of his last name.)  Plenty of other references too.  I am removed from my references, living in a different state at the moment, but remember their content fairly well, and believe me, it is not a nice picture that they paint of the Order, their behaviour or their motives.  I am incensed by the descriptions of Lithuania and Poland waging "aggressive attacks against the Teutonic Knights".  It is historical fact that Teutonic Knights actually waged aggressive attacks against Poland and Lithuania.  It is also historical fact that spreading Christianity had nothing to do with these attacks as by this state Poland was wholly Christian, and Lithuania was well into the process of converting.  It was merely a matter of battle-lust, land and plunder.  It is also historical fact that the Teutonic Knights treatment of the people during these attacks was sickeningly vicious and cruel.  I have removed the the descriptions of Lithuania and Poland "aggressive attacks against the Teutonic Knights" and I INSIST THEY STAY REMOVED.  I will not tolerate this complete reversal of facts, this complete distortion of the historical record.  This is a very reasonable compromise, the Teutonic Knights actually deserve far heavier criticism than what they receive in this article.
Codman 22:14, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  I question the impartiality of this article 

message: In here it reads the 8th Grand master as Günther von Schwarzberg, but the other Wikipedias (Polish, German and Swedish) plus the Order's website says it was Günther von Wüllersleben.
We have to assume it was von Wüllersleben then.
http://www.deutscher-orden.at/
Norum 16:08, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The 8th Grand Master: Günther von Wüllersleben or Günther von Schwarzenberg 

message: According to historian Charles Pichel, it is a fair assessment that by the time the Order was situated in Prussia, it was more interested in the power, lands and plunder attained through warfare than the spreading of a Christian faith that was largely already in place.[1]
The work quoted is:  Pichel, Charles L. Thourot (1975) Samogitia. Wilkes-Barre, PA, Maltese Cross Press.
I did a Google search on this 'historian' as well as the publisher. The results are less than convincing. The publisher Maltese Cross Press appears only with the book listed. As for 'Charles Thourot Pichel', he appears as a self styled head of a branch of the Maltese knights, claiming a "Russian tradition" . A quote out of the book listed in  strikes me as patent nonsense. Again (see the part about secret societies) describes him as a colonel, pro-Nazi, and indirectly linked to conspiracy theories like the Roswell UFO incident. This is in concordance with results from other sites.
I propose that either the reputation of Mr.Pichel is established or that better source for the claim is given. '-129.247.247.238 23:10, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There is also another quote here. Hmmm, I tend to agree with you this may be a bogus reference. By the way, feel free to shed the cloak of anonimity and register - we are always happy to welcome new serious contributors.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 02:03, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Charles Thourot Pichel 

message: It is stated in the text : ,,After Christian forces were defeated in the Middle East, the Order moved to Transylvania in 1211, but were expelled in 1225. The knights moved to Prussia, where they created the independent Teutonic Order state. After basing itself in Prussia, the Order became involved against the Kingdom of Poland..." . Actually it might be worth noting that they were INVITED to Prussia in 1226 by Konrad , prince of Masovia to protect the coast from Brandenburgians and convert pagans present there . The terrains there were lended to the Order by Konrad , but later the order conquered Danzig in 1308 and falsified the lease documents so they would say that the land was given to the Order forever .
Perhaps Konrad did not actually give the Order the right to keep the lands the conquered, but that is immaterial due to the support of the Order's claim by both the Holy Roman Empire, and the Papacy. And even more immportant element in the equation is that the Teutonic Knights felt they God's mandate in their conquest of the pagan Prussian, much the same way Americans felt in the 19th century that it was their manifest destiny to spread to the Pacific. Therefore the reality of the situation was that the Teutonic Order was in the Baltic to stay. Jak1985 11:33 April 3, 2006
Well, there were also bishop Christian, who should get his part according to his privileges (was it 1/3 or 2/3 of all conquered territories?), but who practically was cheated out by TO. Szopen 09:58, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Extra info about the begining of the Order state in Prussia

message: There are actual factual errors in the article, that strike me as more serious than errors of interpretation or faulty historical vision.  It would be nice to get the actual facts straight and written clearly, before arguments over their interpretation begin.
from the article:  
"After Christian forces were defeated in the Middle East, the Order moved to Transylvania in 1211, but were expelled in 1225."
This sentence is too vague and ultimately misleading.  The Christians weren't totally defeated in the Middle East until the end to the 13th century.  There was a major set-back after Hattin, 1187; but Acre and the kingdom didn't fall until 1291.  The above sentence seems to imply that the Teutonic Knights moved because of the (total) defeat of the Christian kingdoms in the Middle East.  (Hint: the word "after" sets up an implied cause and effect relationship between the first two clauses).  I hope the original author will seriously consider changing this ambiguous language.  It serves to set up a misleading timeline for Christian activities in the Middle East during the period under consideration (i.e. 12th & 13th c.).
There are also some secondary related facts which are wrong by ommission: the Teutonic Knights had strongholds in the Middle East until the bitter end.  They didn't leave en masse after 1211.  What seems more likely is the Teutonic Knights set up priories and strongholds over germanic Europe the same way that the Templars colonized small parts of France, England, Spain, etc. And what's more likely, (and this requires cites, maybe R.C. Smail) being the third group on the scene, their role in the Holy Land was limited by the Templar/Hospitaller presence, and they were looking for a place where they could expand their role/power; rather than leaving the Holy Land because of Christian defeats.
The paragraph begining:
"When the mission of the Order in Palestine was nearing its end, the Teutonic Knights moved their headquarter to Venice and offered their services to Christian rulers confronted with hostile non-Christian neighbors.  In 1211, Andrew II of Hungary accepted..."
is equally flawed for the same reasons.~~cgothard
:Thank you for your comments. Please, be bold and make the necessary changes in the article, especally if you can cite the relevant sources. You may want to register, too.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 15:04, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Factual Error 

message: The image Teutonic order charge.jpg used here is problematical:
* it is a picture from a computer game so that there is no historical authenticity (i.e. it is not a reality, it is an idea or an image of somebody who made the game)
* the licence is not clear
Thx, -jkb- 09:32, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Replied at .--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 17:05, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  problematical image 

message: Thought I'd mention them here; someone may be able to do better.
After the Peace of Augsburg in 1555, membership in the order was open to Protestants, although the majority of brothers remained Catholic and the organization became increasingly Baroque.
I removed the "Baroque" reference because I didn't understand it. Perhaps the word was used figuratively to mean "complex", but I don't know. The snag is that if the footnote refers to that bit (I doubt it), it will now be redundant.
I also removed one of the two pictures of the battle of Grunwald. I thought that was one too many in an already overstuffed article; it was also too big and was dislocating the text, and reducing its size would have made its detail impossible to see without clicking on the picture. qp10qp 15:06, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: A couple of changes I made

message: "On 13 September 1309 the Order purchased from Brandenburg for 10,000 marks claims to the castles of Danzig, Schwetz (Świecie) and Dirschau (Tczew) and their hinterlands."
At best this line is confusing when it comes right after stating that the Order billed Poland for 10,000 marks.  However, I checked the source page cited, and, although it was a Google translation, the page actually said,
"When Lokietek offered only 300 Marks, the medal occupied completely Danzig as pledge for the sum which can be paid."
Two paragraphs later the article does say something which is completly unreadable through the google translation about 10,000 marks and "the medal", which  took to mean "the Order", and Brandenburg.  I think this is where the purchase talked about in the questioned line of our article comes in.
Please, someone who knows a little more about this topic than me, at least reword the paragraph to make more clear what is going on.Artificialkiwi54 15:00, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Payment for the citadel? 

message: I noticed that nowhere in the article is there a reference to the Order's motto.  I'm no Teuton or Teutonic historian, but I found a website that says: "the motto of the imperial order is "Christus Vincit, Christus Regnat, Christus Imperit," ( Christ Conquers, Christ Reigns, Christ Rules,) from Charlemagne (742-814) first holy roman emperor (800-814)"  (http://imperialteutonicorder.org/_wsn/page3.html).  Does anybody know if this is correct? Mets 00:05, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The website is run by a rather odd individual who titles himself "His Imperial and Royal Highness Prinz Karl Friedrich von Deutschland". Needless to say, this individual has no actual claims upon the monarchy and all of his websites must be taken with grain of salt or two. Olessi 05:24, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You are right of course (see my comment below under "Teutonic Order Today").--dunnhaupt (talk) 22:18, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Motto 

message: What is the reason for those horn-like extensions I've seen on many Teutonic helmets? It seems very intimidating, but is that the only reason or are there more? Mallerd (talk) 16:08, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Teutonic and German knights never wore horns.  They were found mostly among certain tribes of Norsemen in Scandinavia and Britain.--dunnhaupt (talk) 21:54, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Neither did the Vikings nor the Teutonic Knights wear these horned or winged helmets. There is no evidence to it plus it's highly doubtable to wear such a helmet in a combat situation.--MacX85 (talk) 20:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Horns and wings were common crests on helmets of knights throughout Germany, although there is enough other stuff to be found like flowers, human torsos, hats, etc. This stuff belonged to each knights coat of arms. Although they seem rather impractical in combat, there are certain manuscripts that show them worn in turnaments and some combat-scenes. However those horns were never used in such a way as shown in this silly pc-game. Those guys only thought, that it would look cool and now every nerd believes that this has been reality. 87.178.41.9 (talk) 14:08, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  All these appliances (Horns, Hands, Claws a.s.o.) where part of the coat of arms - the so-called "Helmzier" - and not to be worn in battle or tournament. Before any official gathering of german knights a herold had to confirm the identity of the man before him by consulting the "Adelsrolle" (literally: nobility-scroll) during a so-called "Helmschau" (visitation of the Helmets). Knights oficially present had to leave their ritual helmets in custody of the herold, who displayed them for other knights to see. This was due to the need for the coming peace of the gathering to be held, thus quarrels,complaints, feuds and challenges could be officially made beforehand in a mandatory setting. Most knights in Germany where liable to carry different helmets, head-gear for the melee, for jousting, for warring and for presentational purposes.
This is a very well researched topic - people shouldn't watch Ivanhoe, Braveheart or Spiderman to educate themselves... --77.3.76.216 (talk) 07:13, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Helmet 

message: It's the Knights Hospitallor (spelling?) that appear in Ubisoft's game, Assassin's Creed, not the Teutonic Order.
SWGMan (talk) 00:44, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minor Change In the List Of Appearances 

message: I was wondering if there was a list of ranks and what they do for the order.
SWGMan (talk) 01:30, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ranks In The Order 

message: I was wondering since the TO still exists today, how do they select new members? What would the qualifications be?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vcore (talk • contribs) 23:06, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  The authentic Teutonic Order always was and still is strictly a Roman catholic order.  It still exists, and its headquarters is in Vienna's "Deutsch-Ordenshaus" by the cathedral.  The fake order mentioned above (under "Motto") is run by the equally fake "Prince Friedrich" out of Teddington near London, England, and has nothing whatever to do with the authentic "Deutscher Orden" (cf. the German Wikipedia).--dunnhaupt (talk) 22:13, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Teutonic Order Today 

message: The knight in Chaucer's "Knight's Tale" is a member of the Teutonic Order.--dunnhaupt (talk) 21:50, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fictional Member

message: I wonder if this section reflects a neutral point of view. I don't doubt that Nazis, especially the SS, heavily used symbols of the Teutonic Order, but this whole monocausal reasoning that the rise of Nazism before war as a consequence of anti-slavic imperialism in the tradition of the Teutonic Order sounds extremely simplified. Are there any other scientific references for this than this one 6 page article in Polish without any further bibliography at the end? --Popolfi (talk) 03:07, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: This makes no sense. The TO wasn't anti-slavic... just anti-pagan.--MacX85 (talk) 20:23, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  The Nazi Party is said to have been organized at the Thule Society which looks like it was ran by the Teutonic Order of the time. I would take issue with the claim the Teutonic Kights or any other Military Order were/are ever Protestant. Romanism and Protestantism do not go together. While Evangelicals join, these are converts to Rome.72.161.224.78 (talk) 19:57, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Influence on German nationalism??? 

message: As has been noted in the past, the Battle of Grunwald/Zalgiris/Tannenberg is generally known in the West, in English — and in Western historiography — by its German name, Tannenberg. And why did we have to remove the Lithuanian name?
Sca (talk) 15:19, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: 1410

message: Does anyone know if there is a connection between the Teutonic Knights and the Teutones (the peoples that migrated down from Jutland - references exist from the 2nd and 1st Century B.C.)?  Or, were they a bunch of outsiders who just used the name as a "destination reference" or because of Germanic connection (i.e. the broader definition of Teuton)?
My understanding is that the Teutones, along with the Cimbri and the Ambrones, came down (with, in part, the Harudes), and expanded into north-central Europe - from the western Rhine to the Wiechel (Vistula), and south to the Danube.  From what I have read, they also established the settlement of Teutoburgium (near the southwestern border of Hungary).  In addition, I read a reference on one of the Prussia pages about the Teutones in Old Prussia (pre-Viking visits of the 700 and 800 periods).
As such, I was wondering if there is some type of connection.  Was the Order established with an attempt as some from of antiquarian-cultural identification?  Specifically, was the Order established with a mindset of selecting [or portraying] an association or historical brotherhood - of sorts - with Prussia's tribal roots?  Maybe that is kind of far-fetched; but we do that kind of thing in corporations, social-work agencies, and diplomatic corps of today.  We send "emissaries" that have some real - or even exaggerated or down-right fabricated - association with the people to whom they are sent.  I just wonder if there is any research data that show whether or there was a connection.  If so, is there any evidence that indicates what the initial impetus - on an individual level - that started the whole idea of the Order in the first place.  The article references the bigger-picture events and political and church establishments of the Order.  I am wondering if the first sparks of its creation started on a more personal level -- such as some first individuals having a historic or emotional connection with the Prussian area.  If so, that could have been the earliest trigger that eventually became the vision called the Teuton Order.  Granted, that vision resulted in good, bad, and even good-intentions that were turned into another road to Hell by the power-brokers of that age.  I hope my inquiry doesn't trigger comments going down that road again.  I hope replies respond to the issue of my inquiry -- whether or not there was a historical connection between the Teutones and the Teutonic Knights.
User:Tesseract501\Tesseract501 9 March 2009 (UTC)
:It was common in the Middle Ages to use classical terms for places and people - for example, the First Crusaders were described as Franks, Allemanni, Teutons, etc, and travelled through places like Illyria and Pannonia and fought against the Babylonians, when what is really meant is French and Germans, Albania and Hungary, and Egyptians. They probably weren't specifically claiming to be descended from the ancient Teutons, but it was instead an erudite way of saying that they were German. I very much doubt that they were claiming actual descent from the ancient Teutons. Adam Bishop (talk) 03:21, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That's right. "Teuton" was a synonym for German since the early 11th century. Even German chroniclers of the 12th century were talking about a Teutonic kingdom which they were living in and speaking the lingua teutonica. This was really common. This term was spread by papal messengers during the investiture controversy which was supposed to lower the authority of the German king/emperor--MacX85 (talk) 20:28, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Teutones versus the Ordo Teutonicus 

message: The Balije van Utrecht is now included, but not very well. We do not (yet) admit women. The  religious order that has taken over the catholic branch originates in a country, Austria, where nobility not only no longer exists, but where using a title is still (2013!!!) forbidden by law... it is telling and shocking that itself does not iinclude any reference to the Dutch Protestant organization either. While perhaps biased I think  it may well be defendable that the aristocratic Utrecht branch, is more a continuation of  the historical Teutonic order than the scandal and politics ( is that a  pleonasm?) tainted Austrian/German organization.....  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.217.242.4 (talk) 18:05, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bailiwick of Utrecht 

message: The German term is Hochmeister, literally High Master, not Grand Master. The Latin term was magister primus, first master. Is it common to ignore this? -- Zz (talk) 18:45, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grand Master? 

message: According to the article. they were a military order up until 1929. So that begs the question... did they fight in WWI? It was well within their timeframe as a military order (1914-1919)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.158.38.24 (talk) 00:35, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Teutonic Knights and World War I

message: Are you serious? Poland didnt even exist back then the entire area/province was known as Prussia back then. I question your impartiality. You obviously have a clear bias against the Teutonic Knights. Prussians never attacked their own people this is a lie you are telling on this article to willingly misrepresent them. I find the older the source of information the more reliable that piece of information is the more recent the source is by date the less reliable it is. Find an older piece of information cite it and ill be more inclined to believe what you are saying. For the most part each kingdom within prussia worked together, traded with eachother, and worked side by side in battle together. 
I have Prussian linage and you are purposely misrepresenting my heritage and i will not stand for it but not just because its the reputation of my heritage is on the line but because most of what you are saying about the Teutonic Knights is factually incorrect. Find articles about records from that time and use them do not go and use excerpts from fiction to support your apparent bias.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mr. Gibbs (talk • contribs) 16:28, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Against Poland?  

message: It is almost impossible to find references to the motto (Helfen, Heilen Wehren) before 2000.
Apparently this is from Demel (1999), but where did Demel get it from? How old is the motto? I tried permutations ("Helfen, Wehren, Heilen") with no success.
Perhaps the motto was Latin? Google tells me that "adiuvare, tueri, atque defendere" is biblical, but that would be "to help, to protect, to defend", not "to heal";
Latin for "to heal" might be sanare, or curare, or mederi, or even salvare.
I find "adiuvare, salvare et defendere" in medieval texts but no connection to the Teutonic Order.
Unless we can cite exactly where and when this motto is introduced, it should be regarded as spurious. It certainly doesn't jump out at us from a quick literature search. --dab (𒁳) 11:14, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Motto

message: "A manuscript by Karl Marx once characterised the forces of the Order as Reitershunde - meaning something like a 'pack of knights'." 
No, reitershunde means "riding dogs." Reiter means rider. Hunde means hounds i.e. dogs. 
I'm not sure how it's relevant what Karl Marx thought of the Teutonic Order, though, but it does highlight his general hatred for Christianity, I suppose. And the editor's unsurprising bias. --89.8.107.184 (talk) 11:03, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bad Translation