Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ireland/Assessment/Archive 1

message: ===Copied from User talk:Sarah777===
Not aware that I've deleted any Irelandproj tags. Yesterday I added project tags to several Irish related articles (have a glance at my contributions list) and added the project nest to tidy up a bit. This may be the problem - it hides the project banner but just needs a click on the show button. What instances have you found? It would be carelessness and I apologise. BTW, have a look at the discussion on the talk page for Kildare Town - do you have a view? Folks at 137 06:33, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, Ww has pointed that out; my fear is that the nested tags are not being read by the statistics compiler, for whatever reason. Time will tell; if James Joyce does not appear as a FA then we have a problem Houston. (Sarah777 11:45, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: See here, this is the programme that updates the list about every 3 days and I think it doesn't read nested tags. Of course we must always allow for the fact that I might be wrong - however unlikely! There is a run due tonight I think. The we'll see if James Joyce passes muster with his neat but nested tag. (Sarah777 11:51, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

text: Can the program that builds the list be amended to read nested tags? There are 2 forms of nesting - I've used the one I've used as it's more visible. Do we know who wrote the program? Folks at 137 16:11, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortunately I don't know anything about the programme; I suspect it was taken from the Australia Project. (Sarah777 17:11, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

text: Depends, they do work but too many tags gets messy at the top of the talk page which is why one uses a banner shell. I'm going to look closer at some other to see if I can figure out how they actually work. Bye ww2censor 01:35, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

text: Look at Arklow now. Cheers ww2censor 01:45, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep..see Arklow, I understand what you are doing. But will the updating bot (the one that produces that nice table) pick up on the nested tags??? (Sarah777 01:49, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The bot should only change what is needs, but I am looking around at that stuff later today and maybe tomorrow. ww2censor 02:12, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm sorry to have caused bother. IMO multiple projects should be nested, for conciseness(?). Either that or accept that there's a limit to number of projects that an article can be linked to, which would lead to projects being less than comprehensive. I'll stick to the consensus, of course. If "nested tag" means "nested=yes", then it does work (the only exception seems to be the "thoroughbred horse", see Talk:Kildare Town). Folks at 137 07:18, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Project assessment tags - copied discussions

message: Not aware that I've deleted any Irelandproj tags. Yesterday I added project tags to several Irish related articles (have a glance at my contributions list) and added the project nest to tidy up a bit. This may be the problem - it hides the project banner but just needs a click on the show button. What instances have you found? It would be carelessness and I apologise. BTW, have a look at the discussion on the talk page for Kildare Town - do you have a view? Folks at 137 06:33, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, Ww has pointed that out; my fear is that the nested tags are not being read by the statistics compiler, for whatever reason. Time will tell; if James Joyce does not appear as a FA then we have a problem Houston. (Sarah777 11:45, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: See here, this is the programme that updates the list about every 3 days and I think it doesn't read nested tags. Of course we must always allow for the fact that I might be wrong - however unlikely! There is a run due tonight I think. The we'll see if James Joyce passes muster with his neat but nested tag. (Sarah777 11:51, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

text: Can the program that builds the list be amended to read nested tags? There are 2 forms of nesting - I've used the one I've used as it's more visible. Do we know who wrote the program? Folks at 137 16:11, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortunately I don't know anything about the programme; I suspect it was taken from the Australia Project. (Sarah777 17:11, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Copied from [[User talk:Sarah777]]

message: Ww, not sure those nested tags work; better to leave the Irelandproj tags as well, like they do in Australia. (Sarah777 01:30, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Depends, they do work but too many tags gets messy at the top of the talk page which is why one uses a banner shell. I'm going to look closer at some other to see if I can figure out how they actually work. Bye ww2censor 01:35, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

text: Look at Arklow now. Cheers ww2censor 01:45, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep..see Arklow, I understand what you are doing. But will the updating bot (the one that produces that nice table) pick up on the nested tags??? (Sarah777 01:49, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The bot should only change what is needs, but I am looking around at that stuff later today and maybe tomorrow. ww2censor 02:12, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm sorry to have caused bother. IMO multiple projects should be nested, for conciseness(?). Either that or accept that there's a limit to number of projects that an article can be linked to, which would lead to projects being less than comprehensive. I'll stick to the consensus, of course. If "nested tag" means "nested=yes", then it does work (the only exception seems to be the "thoroughbred horse", see Talk:Kildare Town). Folks at 137 07:18, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Copied from [[User talk:Ww2censor]]

message: From what I read yesterday the bot will find the project assessment class tags whether it is nested or not. We shall have to wait a day or two to see if it is picking up the new and revised tags that we have added to some pages. When the tag is nested editors need to watch out and not add a duplicate as has happened with a few pages, such as, Arklow had. Nested tags can only be used if the original tag is set up for nesting. This is completely separate from the use of a Banner-Shell that allows hiding of several project tags, be they regular tags, assessment tags or whatever. The issue with the "thoroughbred horse" tag seems to be that is is not set-up to allow nesting, but can still be incorporated into a Banner-Shell. ww2censor 23:58, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Continued project assessment tags

message: (moved from ww2censor's talk page)
I'll do what I can when I can. My main interests are Irish politics (Republic of Ireland) and some related topics. I tend to be a bit sporadic with my time and some of what I contribute to. Rigger30 15:11, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I will also start on this, from tomorrow.  Had previously discussed with Sarah but then noted greater debate, and have been busy and mostly offline. Will focus on Cork and Kerry, and Dublin when the time comes. SeoR 17:28, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Will help when I can

message: So it looks like for now we have Flowerpotman, Sarah, SeoR, Rigger30 and myself. If we can progress some basic criteria it would be good. Geographical guidelines seem easy enough, historical seem harder as do biographical though there we might tend to follow the Biography Projects decisions if they get there before we do. What other groups should we consider now; maybe organisations and companies. 
First, we should decide on the unclassed FAs and GAs. BTW, Cillian Murphy became a GA today and I changed the template to  to show the "low" importance rating. ww2censor 02:53, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Active members to work on criteria?

message: Here is a shot at an importance guide for various geographical categories:
 ''''''
Label	Criteria                                                                                                                                                                                        	Cities, towns and villages	Mountains, Lakes and Rivers	Roads      	Public Transport
     	High probability that general readers outside Ireland would look this up. Well known outside the country and important in the life and history of Ireland.                                      	Dublin                    	River Shannon              	The M50    	Ryanair
     	Regarded as very important within the country, perhaps not well known abroad.
Counties or County Towns.                                                                                         	Sligo                     	River Nore                 	The N7 road	Dublin Bus
     	Local or regional importance in Ireland. Towns with over 10,000 people which are not officially Cities or County Towns. Lower importance national roads.                                        	Bray                      	River Suck                 	The N62    	Luas
     	Towns and villages of importance within a county or even just a locality. Geographical features that would be well known to people with an interest in the topic only. Regional and local roads.	Dungarvan                 	River Derry                	The R747   	Abbeyshrule
(Sarah777 17:36, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not bad at all Sarah. I would add a limiter for Top similar to the one I put in the biographical criteria, say "Top rating is limited to no more than 5-10 articles without assessment team's consensus." We likely need an "Architectural" group criteria too and this could be integrated into the table Sarah made. Looking good folks. ww2censor 19:48, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks Ww; though I do a few articles about castles and dolmens etc I wouldn't have the faintest idea re their relative importance except for some very obvious ones; Tara is "top" and the Stepaside cross is "low". In between I'd be guessing - for example if it is a National Monument it must be at least "mid" - we must have some Irish Wikipedians with some background in this who could set some guidelines? Re architecture; I'm even more clueless; the stuff I like never wins any prizes! (Sarah777 20:54, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I suppose some of this will be SOP, seat of pants, decisions unless we have more specialised people join this project and do some work. Some people seem to take more time bickering than contributing. I was trying to get someone involved in the FAR of President of Ireland but no one has stepped in to help and I don;t have the time or sources. On a geographical note but OT - did you see that someone is changing the heights of Lugnaquilla and some other mountains? I think the page at the OSI they are using is wrong. Do you have any recent OS maps? We can discuss this elsewhere. Cheers ww2censor 21:09, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

text:  Excellent, thanks. For the suburb question, I have commented elsewhere. Unless otherwise special, such as Tallaght (80-110k pop, depending how and what you count), or Dun Laoghaire / Swords (admin. county towns), I suggest all start as Low. SeoR 13:59, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

text:  Yep, Seo. Agree with that. Tallaght/Swords/DL would be "mid" in this system as county towns; putting all the others as "low" would eliminate endless rows! If the rest agree, maybe you tag a few hundred suburbs??! (Sarah777 17:18, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Making a start. One small thing, I would consider making any working airport a "mid", as they are rather rare resources. But Low for small rail stations, etc., indeed. SeoR 13:05, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: OK Seo, promote Weston Airport, we'll need to find a different example for the "Guideline box" above...(Sarah777 07:35, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Will do then.  Northside suburbs of Dublin finished, exercise has emphasised much to do :-)  For bottom class of airport, I'm sure I can find one of the old "farmer Pat's field" aerodromes about.  I remember Farranfore (or Kerry International!) when it was exactly that! SeoR 18:56, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think I found the ideal replacement! (Sarah777 21:18, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Excellent!  Well done indeed :-)  And for the suburbs, over half the Southside done too.  I have made one change to above - still all Low, except Dun Laoghaire, Swords and Tallaght, but having considered the facts, DL and Swords are Mid, and Tallaght High (as it is nearly 10% of all Dublin, and at least the 4th largest urban area in Ireland by pop.).  For the other suburbs, I think we can review later and consider, if we want to open that can of worms, whether scale, contents or history of a few suburbs justifies a higher rating. Relative to the rest of the country, this might be (e.g. for Blanchardstown, Rathfarnham, Howth) but... SeoR 11:41, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Geographical importance

message: I was assessing some article yesterday evening and using the "image-needed" code adding yes where there were no photos. This results in a category page showing the pages needing images, but did not find it linked anywhere. I also assessed some pages a "dab" but I cannot find any link to this page in the assessment page links or linked lists of categories. Maybe Flowerpotman can fix this. Cheers ww2censor 20:03, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, they appearing in :Category:Ireland articles needing images and :Category:Dab-Class Ireland articles respectively, and these two categories are sub-categories of :Category:Ireland articles by quality at present. I'll update the links above with all the categories .FlowerpotmaN·(t) 20:38, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

text: Well done again. I assessed some lists last night but they do not appear in the :Category:List-Class Ireland articles page. Any ideas – I have confidence in you! TIA ww2censor 21:03, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually there is a bit of duplication in the categories from an older system. Easily sorted, when I get a chance tonight,  but in the meantime, try :Category:List-Class Ireland pages. FlowerpotmaN·(t) 21:06, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Now in :Category:List-Class Ireland articles. FlowerpotmaN·(t) 00:13, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

text: PS, definitely some duplication on a few of the categories; mostly my fault. I'll fix them tonight. It doesn't affect any of the major categories; I might need to alter the  template, and delete the superfluous categories. I'll change the assessment page links after I have finished, so you will know where they are.FlowerpotmaN·(t) 22:12, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

text: What a star Flowerpotman! Well done. This is real progress. Thanks ww2censor 00:50, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "image-needed" in template

message: The new stats were created today, August 25, 2007, and it look like we assesses about 200 article in 3 days with most of them being given an importance rating. Looking good, but one question. How is it possible for Republic of Ireland to be rated A when it does not ever seem to have been a GA. It should of course be a GA or an FA with a "Top" importance. What do others think? ww2censor 01:52, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The rating got changed here , but I'm not sure why it took so long to be found by the bot. At a guess, he rated it to match the O.5 assessment rating from way back when. I'll have a look to see when they rated it. FlowerpotmaN·(t) 02:36, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: New stats should be in later this evening. Let's see how we are doing. ww2censor 05:02, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Should, but I lied. Maybe later today. It looks like the stats are collected every 3 days but sometimes the interval is longer. ww2censor 13:36, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: They are in now and we have assessed 500+ Irish articles in the 6 days now that we have some agreed criteria to work with. Overall the unassessed articles and the articles with no importance rating are both down about 10%—let's keep working on those. Because the main statistics page does not retain the old stats, I have the last 5 bot runs saved here if you want to make some comparisons for yourself. Well done, though we could still use some more participants. ww2censor 20:42, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

text:  Progress report - Towns and Suburbs of Dublin completed, will now look to subsidiary articles, other counties and other categories (going for writers). SeoR 07:33, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: New stats are in