Talk:Schism

message: copied from Talk:Schism:
Good idea to create a disambiguation page.  Do you think it would be less surprising to readers to move the original article back here, and to make this Schism (disambiguation)?  Will anyone dispute that Schism (religion) is the predominant usage of the word? --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 20:41, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I haven't heard any response in a week.  Shall we go ahead and move Schism (religion) back here, as it will probably make things easier for readers?  --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 10:59, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds a good idea.  Note that I updated a lot of articles to change schism to schism (religion).  --Michael C. Price talk 11:03, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I noticed.  That is why I noticed the new page.  It looks like you fixed about 80 links, and there about 200 that still link to Schism that will also need to be checked.  If we do a move, then we get an automatic redirect, but as well as fixing the double redirects, there will still be a lot of work to do on those pages that linked to Schism, as they will redirect to the proposed Schism (disambiguation). Is there a tool or a bot that can help us? --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 11:19, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Move?

message: Schism in 1966 was removed as it seems to be unsourced.  I found this with Google about a so-called schism between  the Rasta Christians and other Rastas - http://www.rastafarispeaks.com/cgi-bin/forum/archive1/config.pl?read=48591
--Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 09:53, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Rastafari schism?

message: What about Orthodox Christian schizms? To name the few: the Starovery :ru:Староверы, the "foreign" Orthodox church (:ru:Русская православная церковь за рубежом) vs. the "ex-communist" Orthodox church (the official one, but they recently declared a planned reunion with the "foreign" church, AFAIK) vs. the "underground" Russian Orthodox church (:ru:Катакомбная церковь), the Russian Orthodox Church :ru:Русская православная церковь vs. the regional churches (f.e. the Ukranian Orthodox church -- :ru:Украинская автокефальная православная церковь), the relation of any of those to the Greek Orthodox Church (:ru:Константинопольская православная церковь). Argh, there are so many of them: :ru:Категория:Православные церкви!
Also it may be less wise to look at Category:Eastern_Orthodox_churches -- there the churches as buildings are mixed up with churches as institutions. And it's about instititions here. --84.59.20.181 18:45, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Orhodox church

message: # Support. This is better than the new graphic but not the best graphic. Cheers Wassupwestcoast 19:50, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey - in support of the old graphic

message: The new graphic has changed. 155.104.37.17 16:15, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ? It looks the same to me - or is there another version elsewhere? Johnbod 16:49, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It has changed, but in my opinion for the worse; and the wording is also worse than as I remember it.  Lima 18:27, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I see - previous visitors may need to refresh their browser, or their machine will use the old version it has remembered. The new one has trumpet-like shapes.  Johnbod 14:55, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

text: In my view, the trumpet broadening at the end of the lines has no meaning. The right-hand extremity may be meant to indicate, vaguely perhaps, present-day proportions, but a pie chart would do that better.  More important, the broadening gives the impression, for instance, that the (Roman) Catholic Church was not even temporarily diminished by the sixteenth-century Protestant revolt but continued to grow undisturbed and almost immediately accelerated its growth out of all proportion to its past.  I also think it is a mistake to put so many individual denominations in the graphic.  It is impossible to indicate all of them, so it is better to give just a few broad classifications.  This would also avoid the problem of the problematic lineage of the individual groups represented in the graphic.  I do not know enough to express a judgement on the idea that Restorationism and Pentecostalism are offshoots of Methodism alone, but I suspect that some (many?) would not see it in that way.  Lima 08:11, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I concur fully with Lima's views.  I don't see why the author considers it important to try to show relative sizes on this chart, which is intended to show a timeline and sources of division.  As I said previously, a separate graph such as a line chart or a pie chart would be better suited to plot the relative proportions over time - although I still think it would be difficult absent consistent statistics and changes in population.  I also agree that there are two many Protestant denominations shown.  I think it would be better to indicate Anglicanism emerging from between Roman Catholicism and Protestantism, and Protestantism having three branches emerge from it: Anabaptism, Non-trinitarianism, and Restorationism, since these movements reflect significant reinterpretations. Fishhead64 14:53, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey - in support of the new graphic

message: The removed material that Johnbod added back was "In the early centuries of Christianity through much of the Middle Ages, schism was considered by many Christians to be as serious or more serious than heresy..  This surprising statement was in fact tagged with a "citation needed" tag since at latest 6 August 2006.  In all that time, nobody has come up with a citation.  Are we expected to believe that Ignatius of Antioch, who called heretics "beasts in the shape of men, whom you must not only not receive, but, if it be possible, not even meet with" (Smyrnaeans, 4), would have used the same or stronger language about people who had a quarrel with the Church authorities but who still held the same faith?  I do not intend to engage in an edit war, but I really must remove again this unbelievable material.  Lima 14:15, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, yes, we are - Ignatius & many of his fellows had equally colourful language for schismatics.  Anyway, the whole passage was always oddly placed & the bits you have left were even more so, & rather pointless by themselves, so I have removed the lot.  Johnbod 14:26, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Johnbod that all the material that was there, even what was true, was out of place where it stood.  Perhaps we can insert it elsewhere.  Lima 14:28, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "removed material added back" 

message: # Remove the "separate lineage" dotted line: it is an at-least POV statement to say that the Restorationist claim is essentially different from that of the sixteenth-century Protestants.
# Reduce the Protestantism line to the same width as the other lines
# Instead of "Council of Ephesus (431)", "Great Schism 11th Century", etc., put just "431", "11th Century", etc.  The diverging lines are enough to indicate what happened.
# Add a pie chart to represent present-day proportions.  Lima 08:13, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd say: Yes, yes, no, different issue.  Johnbod 10:12, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposals to modify the "old" graphic 

message: I suggest that a number of "sub-trees" be created, which show the branches within various movements. These would often begin at the end of a node in the current diagram, and would have clear links to each other. This would help to justify a minimalist inclusion of churches in the main diagram, and in addition would be really cool to navigate! For example, see this tree of Millerites. Colin MacLaurin 10:56, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sub-trees 

message: Disagree. There is already sizable coverage in Christian denomination#Historical schisms and methods of classification scheme, including some nifty graphics. Direction to that in Schism: Examples: Christian is sufficient, IMO, instead of another separate article that covers what's already been covered and is therefore unnecessary and confusing. OTOH, a good project would be ensuring that Christian denomination#Historical schisms and methods of classification scheme adequately includes what was mentioned in Schism: Christianity and Schism: Examples: Christian. Molly-in-md (talk) 14:42, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Split "Examples" into a new article titled "Schisms in Christianity" ? 

message: There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Schism which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RMCD bot 19:14, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I can see the merit in the proposed merger on Ecclesiastical separatism into this article but where is the discussion? - BobKilcoyne (talk) 20:29, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Discussion is in order. MaynardClark (talk) 23:40, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Move discussion in progress

message: Below List was labeled  I have removed the below as there is already a dedicated wiki article so this distracts rather than informs:
*Paul the Apostle refers to factions or schisms (, schismata) within the church at Corinth
*The schism of Marcionism, c.150
*The schism of Gnosticism, which some attribute to Valentinius, c. 150, others much earlier
*The schism of Montanism
*The schism of Monarchianism, c. 200
*The many Antipopes, beginning with Hippolytus of Rome in 217, although Hippolytus later reconciled.
*The Donatist schism, beginning in 311
*The schism with Arianism and Quartodecimanism at the First Council of Nicaea, 325
*The Nestorian Schism, after the Council of Ephesus in 431, between the State church of the Roman Empire and Nestorianism
*The Oriental Orthodox schism and rejection of the Council of Chalcedon, c. 451
*The Acacian schism, 484-519
*The schism of the Armenian Orthodox, between Patriarchate of Constantinople and Armenian native speaking Eastern Christians which formed the Armenian Apostolic Church, 491-554
*The Great Schism of 1054 that led the split to Latin Rite Roman Catholicism and Byzantine Rite Eastern Orthodoxy
*Bosnian Church cca. 1100 to cca. 1500
*Lollardy in the 1350s
*Three Papal claimants at the same time: Roman Pope Gregory XII, Avignon Pope Benedict XIII, Pisan Pope John XXIII, resolved at Council of Constance, see also Western Schism, 1378–1417
*The Swiss Reformation beginning in 1516
*The Reformation beginning in 1517
*Anabaptist, c. 1525
*The English Reformation beginning in 1529
*Michael Servetus burned at the stake in 1553, considered founder of Unitarianism
*The Scottish Reformation in 1560
*The Dutch Reformation in 1571
*Socinianism in 1605
*The Jansenism schism of 1643
* See Old Believers and Raskol for schism within the Russian Orthodox Church in 1666 over ritual and liturgical changes
*The Old School–New School Controversy in the Presbyterian Church in the United States of America in 1837
* Disruption of 1843
*Restorationism beginning in the 1850s in the United States
*Christian Catholic Church of Switzerland rejects First Vatican Council doctrine of Papal infallibility, see also Old Catholic Church, 1868
*The Crotty Schism in Birr, County Offaly, Ireland
*Members Church of God International splits off from Iglesia ng Dios Kay Cristo Jesus in 1977 left after Eliseo Soriano and others contested Levita Gugulan's leadership
*The schism between the Anglican Communion and the Continuing Anglican movement in 1977
* The schism from the Roman Catholic Church of the leaders of the Society of Saint Pius X in 1988, when Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre ordained four bishops despite a prohibition by the Holy SeeCatholic World News: "CDF prefect says SSPX in schism, suspended from sacraments" (Retrieved 13 February 2015)
*The Moscow–Constantinople schism of 1996 was short-lived split by the Russian Orthodox Church who severe cut ties with Main church within Eastern Orthodoxy over claiming Autonomous control with Estonian Apostolic Orthodox Church instead keep recognised Estonian Orthodox Church under Moscow Patriarchate's control as the Canonical church of Estonia in 1996. This schism was rarely resolved as Ecumenical Patriarchate has declared acknowledge existence of EOC–MP and Russian Orthodox Church acknowledged existence of EAOC thus ending ROC cutting ties with EOC 
*The separation of the Anglican Church in North America from the Episcopal Church and the Anglican Church of Canada in 2009
*The Moscow–Constantinople schism of 2018 has once again Russian Orthodox Church severe cut ties with Main church within Eastern Orthodoxy over granting Autocephalys with then two Ukrainian Orthodox Churches instead keep recognised Ukrainian Orthodox Church under Moscow Patriarchate's control as the Canonical church of Ukraine in 2018
Tiny Particle (talk) 10:18, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: List removed