Talk:SA80

message: Are these still in use, I remember when I was in the Cadets we only practised on the L98 A1 and then the A2 (Fdsdh1 (talk) 18:45, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: L103 A1 and A2 Drill Purpose Rifle

message: The picture is of a 3rd Batallion, the DZ flash is clearly green and not blue, however I don't know on what operation the photo was taken so am loathe to edit it  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.156.80.198 (talk) 22:17, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Picture

message: "Both designs were manufactured in Britain by Sterling Armaments Company alongside their similar but improved SAR-87."
Is there a citation to show evidence that the XL64 prototypes were manufactured at the Sterling Armaments Company?? I have never seen any evidence to suggest that Sterling had a direct role in the SA80's design or manufacture. Strangways (talk) 22:44, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Sterling produced a mock-up for the 4.85 IW programme based on the AR 18 but it was not selected, the Enfield design being chosen instead.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.145.115.53 (talk) 09:59, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Manufacture of XL64 prototypes at Sterling???

message: "Weight remains the L85A2's most cited drawback. As with the L85A1, with most of the weight near the back, a large metal counterbalance in the foregrip was required." - I saw this on the main page, does anyone know who wrote it, because having used the weapon for years (and done all the associated stripping, cleaning and reassembling) I am still to come across this large metal counterbalance. Horatio Hornblower Senior 12:10, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've never seen one either - the foregrip's always been hollow. I've removed this unless someone has a reference for it, and replaced it with a more factual observation re: the rifle's weight. njan 19:02, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  The only L85s with a counterbalance in the grip and forestock are airsoft reproductions. I think this is rather telling of that particular claim, and the user who added it ;-) --90.241.60.218 13:52, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Weight

message: I have a question about the SA80.  I believe a portion of this article described the sale of some SA80s by either Zimbabwe or Mozambique to private bidders.  The MoD were not pleased by this, as part of the terms of sale were that the weapons would not be sold on.  Can anyone verify this, or was is removed because it was untrue?      anon.
I thought the SA80 was given away by the british government as 'aid'. certainly no one in their right mind would actually choose buy this wretched weapon.
Not really, the L85A2 is supposedly the most reliable service rifle in the world.  I can understand with the A1, but unless you state 'A1' you are just insulting the whole group, including one of the best rifles in the world... 213.78.183.91 (talk) 15:07, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Sale to private bidders

message: Why was the SA80 put out of production in 1994?, Was it due to the soldiers complaints?
User:Jetwave Dave 02:35, 8/07/07
It is a piece of crap
::Of course, you've used and had experience with the weapon, havn't you? Zanusi 09:28, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I belive the L85 went out of production in 1994 as the production quota had been met as the MoD had enough L85A1's to supply all of the UKs armed forces and their is no need to stockpile the weapon. --82.37.156.36 (talk) 17:11, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Production Line

message: Safety catch as an issue of contention?  I use the rifle regularly and there's not a damn thing wrong with teh location of the safety catch?  All it takes is a tiny movement of the fingers to switch it, so I don't know where all this is coming from.  The A2 is a bloody brilliant rifle.
I have used the A2 in many extereme/filthy climates and enviroments from the tropics, deserts and the British winter and have always found it to be very reliable and robust, it is a vast improvement over the A1 in this respect. I can count on one hand the amount of stoppages I have had with this weapon despite infrequent cleaning and heavy usage. I much prefer it over the M16A2 and M4 carbines I have recently used on an exercise in Florida, I routinly had stoppages with these systems and found them to be flimsy and not at all accurate in relation to the A2.
Never heard of a problem with the safety catch before. I found that it was in the right place and all of the catches were actually a little stiff more than anything! --Pudduh 20:03, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the perceived "problem" with the safety catch is that "by the book" you're supposed to use your trigger finger to switch from SAFE to FIRE.  However, like most people I imagine you used the fingers on your left hand and thought nothing of it.  If anything I find it's the change lever that's awkwardly placed.  Just try firing a couple of shots then switching to auto to let off a burst without losing you target!  A combined, thumb-operated, safety catch and change lever above the pistol grip (like AR15 and most H&K weapons) is better IMO, or do away with the change lever altogether and replace it with a two-position trigger like the Steyr AUG.  Yorkshire Phoenix (talk • contribs) 08:08, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I believe the muzzle velocity of the LSW is 960m/s. I can't point to a source for that, though. PeteVerdon 13:42, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Schott's Almanac 2006 () of all places lists the muzzle velocity of the LSW. Reckons it's 970ms^-1.  -- Lordandmaker 19:31, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Safety Catch

message: A reliable source is needed for the March 2005 L85A2/M16/M4/AK47/AN94 study. I've not found anything on Google. --AndrewKerr 23:39, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: This was removed by another wikipedian, since it seems not to be attributable at all, and wikipedia does indeed require verifiability. However, I've dug up what appears to be a good reference to another study done by the ITDU. Any comments? njan 19:06, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

text: The test results were briefly available online through the MoD website.  They included a breakdown of performance in each category for each weapon tested.  I can testify to reading them, however, I can no longer find a copy of the test.  The information included in the March 2005 study section was accurate (with respect to the reported results), however cannot be included without a reliable reference.  It would be interesting to see ITDU results.- anon  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.3.140.59 (talk) 12:15, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: March 2005 study

message: Was this used by Zimbabwe and Jamaica? I know that Jamaica uses Colt weapons systems, but I think Zimbabwe uses Russian (and possibly Chinese) rifles.
I had no idea about that one, as far as i knew the only people using the bullpup SA80 was the british.
Strange, the info said that Jamaica and Zimbabwe use them.
I don't think there's anything strange about former British colonies, Jamaica and Zimbabwe, using British standard firearms. I'm only surprised more ex-colonies didn't use them.
---
The Romanian Navy got some A1's when they purchased some ships
---
I'm fairly certain one of the Caribbean states was gifted L85s for its defence force, it may well have been Jamaica. DG 8-4-2006
Mozambique were also provided with a quantity of A1s by the Uk government.
Jamaica has been using them since 1992 so it says on thier website.
User:Jetwave Dave 02:30AM, 8/7/07
===Ministry of Defence Police and the Northern Ireland Security Guard Service===
Currently there is no mention in the Users section about those organisations having used the SA80. Will someone add them? --Dreddmoto (talk) 03:22, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Users of the SA80?

message: Currently there is no mention in the Users section about those organisations having used the SA80. Will someone add them? --Dreddmoto (talk) 03:22, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Ministry of Defence Police and the Northern Ireland Security Guard Service

message: I've noticed that the article, unless I missed something, fails to clearly mention the manufacturer of the SA80 series. (Unless it's actually made by the British government?) -- anon
How's that? --Khendon 15:14, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No it isn't. BAE sold H&K to private investors in 2002 , long before the formation of its Land Systems division.--AlexCGW (talk) 20:58, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

text: AnarchyElf is confusing the SA80 with its predecessor the SLR which was available in various forms, including a full auto one used by the Argentine Army, as the FN FAL. --AlexCGW (talk) 20:58, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Manufacturer? 

message: I would have thought a possibly better occurrence of the L85 in film is 'Dog Soldiers' (2002), where the patrol is initially armed with L85s with the blank firing adaptor, though they rapidly swap to MP5s, G3s and shotguns with live ammo when they find the massacred SF team. DG 8-4-2006
: Is it worth mentioning the 'Soldier, Soldier' and 'Redcap' UK TV series as well? -- Lordandmaker 14:02, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone seems to have removed this section.  Personally I'd rather keep it.  Opinions? Chris 17:03, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Pop culture sections do not add anything to the article, and are merely lists of trivia, not to mention they tend to become excessively large. Many other firearms articles have been through this, and it has been generally agreed that "In fiction" or "Popular culture" sections should be avoided. It should be fine to have a mention of the weapon's frequent appearance/use in popular culture (although it is not really the case with the SA80, if you compare it to, say, the M16). —Squalla 17:42, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I just thought that its pop culture features gave an interesting counterpoint to its definite lack of popularity in real world use, at least formerly.  Chris 18:33, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The information is probably more usefull in List of firearms in films and List of firearms in video games than here. And when it comes to L85, Battlefield 2 and Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six should be mentioned. --80.213.161.170 20:03, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't forget that they use the in Firefly all the time...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.112.230.148 (talk) 15:54, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Use in Fiction

message: I've never come across this restriction. It sounds like the kind of myth which abounds in the Cadets in particular, and in any case if the zeroing was that likely to change then it would be a problem in normal use in the field even without carrying the rifle by the carrying handle. Logically the problem would apply to the SUSAT and CWS as well, particularly the latter due to its weight. Running with a CWS attached would subject the sight mounting to far higher instantaneous loads than walking about non-tactically with the rifle suspended from the sight. I'm going to remove this phrase; the originator is welcome to reinsert it provided they can provide a reasonable justification here. PeteVerdon 13:39, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As a cadet we were always told not to. In the TA, we were told that was "bullshit". I presume the idea was to make Cadets hold the rifle 'properly' more, or that they couldn't be trusted to tell when it was and wasn't appropriate. -- Lordandmaker 14:04, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I do know that our CTT sergeant didn't like people using the carrying handle (he likened it to a handbag) but we assumed that was due to him being an infantryman (SUSATs with everything) and hence unfamiliar with rifles being carried like that. On the other hand, if you're a skill-at-arms instructor like I was, laying out rifles ready for a lesson, then the ability to carry three or four in each hand is very useful - try doing that without a carrying handle! PeteVerdon 15:28, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Making cadets and recruits carry the weapon properly and not using the carrying handle is indeed more to with turning them into something that resembles soldiers rather than anything to do with it damaging the sights, although it also ensures the weapons are under proper control.  As an ex-infantryman I dislike the handbag handle and slings, but tend to carry my rifle by the body, not the pistol grip: for that "casual, not too green" look.  Yorkshire Phoenix (talk • contribs) 08:08, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I wouldn't think twice about this. Its nonesense. Its the kind of thing that your told in the army so you make silly mistakes like carrying the rifle by the carry handle and can be drilled harder for your minor error. Such formalities are abundant in the British army; For instance people getting in trouble for calling an L85 an SA80 (because an SA80 ISNT a rifle, its a group of weapons.) Or getting in trouble for calling an L85 a gun. As a gun is technically something over 105mm in caliber which the L85 certainly is not, technically its a 'firearm'. The term 'gun' for handgun etc. is an Americanism and shouldn't be confused with the true UK-English meaning of a gun. In short its all bollocks basically. Designed by NCOs to let their recruit and junior soldiers slip up on silly errors and drill them for it. 80.176.155.90 17:35, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  "The Gun" always used to be an L7 or an L4. I would guess the L108/110s qualify as well now. Your L85 was your weapon or your rifle. Or "gat" ... or "that bloody thing" depending on context. 194.74.62.195 (talk) 14:36, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: "Don't use the carrying handle as a carrying handle"

message: I believe I originally wrote this (a couple of years ago) as "all removable internal parts are interchangeable" or words to that effect. Would anybody care to remind me which removable internal parts are *not* interchangeable between the LSW and the Rifle? PeteVerdon 13:51, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The L86 has a heavier bolt carrier block, and the gas plug has an extra port as far as I can remember. Not entirely sure about other internal parts though. Project 1409 (talk) 14:34, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

text: The L86 has a heavier bolt carrier block, and the gas plug has an extra port as far as I can remember. Not entirely sure about other internal parts though. Project 1409 (talk) 14:35, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: "Some internal parts are interchangeable"

message: At the OTC, we mainly used the A1 version. One of the things we were taught during rifle drill was "tap forward assist" a very scientific term for "bashing the cocking handle forward a couple of times to make sure it goes all the way forward." This was explained as because the spring was quite weak, the cocking handle doesn't go forward sometimes. Should this be added if it is true?--Pudduh 20:08, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The forward assist is a standard British Army drill regardless of the weapon.  The M16A2 actually has a button protuding from the RHS which can be hit to push the bolt fully forward (as forward assisting the cocking handle would be no good, due to differences in the design).  I don't think it's anything to do with a specific weakness with the L85/86.  Yorkshire Phoenix (talk • contribs) 08:08, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It might be now, but I remember it being introduced on the SA80 in the early 90s.  Caused me no end of trouble because I was used to working without doing it and ended up failing a weapon handling test.  at the time it was explained that it was a weakness in the return spring.ALR 14:46, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

text: I wouldn't take much notice of Page, he spent his rather short career doing one type of job and appears to have no real knowledge of the acquisition process.  He makes some valid points, but more by luck than judgement.ALR 13:17, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I thought that about his book too and im not in the forces yet. its just that he made the comment abount the "tap forward assist" being added to the manual instead of the weapons being fixed and i was wondering if its true. Truefully reading his book makes him sound like he was bitter about the career he chose and felt leaving the forces and writing a book would be a better move.Corustar 01:08, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: When it was introduced a lof ot instructors were saying that was the reason, but logically it takes time to introduce a fix; find a more resilient spring, buy enough, distribute them and ensure that configuration control is maintained etc... ALR 08:42, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yeah, we were specifically told by our instructors that the reason for the "tap forward assist" was because of a weakness in the spring. --84.12.76.86 01:22, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "Tap forward assist"

message: We could do with a picture of each of the 4 different types of SA80 currently in service 195.137.109.177 13:47, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Pictures

message: When the SA80 was first introduced it was quickly nicknamed the 'unisex rifle', presumably because
the adoption of a smaller calibre lightweight bullpip rifle co-incided with frontline female soldiers. No mention of this in the article.
Also because soldiers in general saw the SLR as a superior weapon a lot of effort went into convincing soldiers that flat shooting small calibre guns were more effective on the battlefield, including a demonstration of shooting a brick wall 3 times with the SA80 and once with the SLR, and also a discussions about not having to kill a man in modern warfare. etc.
:I couldn't cite a reference, but i understand that during the Falklands war British soldiers were known to take enemy weapons due to their automatic capability, something that the SLR lacked and ultimately one of the contributing factors for converting to the SA80 weapon system. But yes, you're quite right about not having to kill a man in modern warfare. A dead man is one taken out of action, an injured man is three.--81.171.193.117 14:18, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unisex Rifle 

message: (I apologise for this edit, but I'm not sure how to make my protest known in another way)
I use the SA-80 regularly and what was written above about the criticism of the safety catch was (in my opinion) clearly written by someone who has never held, let alone fired, the weapon. Unless you intend to fire the weapon your finger should not be on the trigger and instead should rest in its natural extended position which leaves it (guess where) right over the safety. A tap of the safety makes the weapon ready to fire and from that action to having your finger on the trigger takes under a tenth of a second. I once again apologise, but must fiercely protest the accuracy of what I have read above. The SA80-A2 is a fine weapon and I've never experienced a problem with it, despite submerging it, coating it in mud, firing in sub zero temperatures and in desert conditions.
::Just removed this comment from the article page.  Geoff B 10:26, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  One slight error with that rant, it is the L85A1 Not the SA80A1, SA80 = FAMILY, L85 = WEAPON. Meateater 11:18, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Yep, but not everyone knows what an L85 is, because it's a Brit Army designation.  Even though said designation is in the article, if you posted on here talking about the L85 someone would say "This is the SA80 article, you fool."  SA80A1/A2 is commonly used when discussing the weapon with those unfamiliar with Brit Army L-series designations, and even in informal discussions between those who do know of the L-designation (e.g. ARRSE forums).  Geoff B 17:59, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Note sure if this helps but I think some of the criticims of the safety catch may have originated from those of us who switched from the SLR (L1A1) to SA-80 (L85A1).  With the SLR all you had to do was move your thumb to take the safety catch lever on/off and it was easy to check whilst keeping your finger on the trigger.  SA-80 is a tiny plastic button ahead of the trigger guard, you have to take your finger off the trigger and it never appeared to us as that intuitive but you got used to it.  On the early models of the SA-80 the safety catch was relatively weak and apparently you could break the safety catch by pulling on the trigger - though that story may well be apochryphal.  Most of the old hands adored the SLR and considered the SA-80 that replaced it a piece of crap.  Justin talk 13:41, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Criticisms

message: I have removed the statement:
"However, because the cocking handle is connected to the rod by a pin, it occasionally breaks[citation needed]. Another idiosyncrasy of the GP rifle is that adding an extra mechanism complicates the maintenance of the rifle, and it is possible to detach the rod from the bolt carrier in such a manner that it is only partly functional."
It is indeed possable to do this... however, it is also possable to put the weapon together without the bolt in it. The fact this can happen is irrelivent.
Also, the cocking handle dosent comlicate maintainance at all. Gas parts can take upwards of an hour to clean after extended firing, whereas the cocking handle and runner, takes perhaps 30 seconds with a combat jacket and a pot of oil.
Please discuss if you think it has been removed unfairly. Teta 19:59, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Whether or not the additional assembly "complicates" maintenance is of course up for debate, but the malfunction mentioned is far and away the single most common mistake I've seen made during routine cleaning of the Cadet GP, and for this reason alone I think it's worth a mention in this context. njan 20:36, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'd say anyone who makes that mistake, has merely been badly trained, or wasnt paying attention when the reassembled it, its hars to miss a huge thing like that!. It's a human error, but its not a problem with the rifle it's self, so i wouldnt say it needs mentioning. Also, leaving the tiny cocking handle off the LSW is a far more common mistake, since it's s tiny! Teta (talk) 19:17, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  The design of the rifle causes the error to be able to be made in the first place; many other flaws with this, and other rifles - such as the lack of a guard around the safety catch, malfunctions when not cleaned, or even the need for a safety catch in itself, could also be attributed to a greater or lesser degree, to "mishandling", particularly when under stress, tired, etc. I'd say it's meritous enough to warrant a short include. njan 19:06, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  The main problem that I recall with the L98's coffee-grinder handle was the way it tended to glue itself solid in storage with a mixture of oil and steel/aluminium swarf. That was an embuggerance and no mistake. 194.74.62.195 (talk) 14:31, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Cadet GP

message: I removed the quotation "the L98A1 is known as an accurate and "fun to use" rifle among cadets." because this is not true, the accuracy isn't brilliant and the only reason it is called "fun" is because its normaly all cadets get to use Fwed66 14:40, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  L98A1 "FUN" 

message: Doesn't the British Army accept weapons into the armed forces with the A1 suffix in their initial set up? The start uses A1 for the L22 and other derivatives but just lists L85 and L86 for the IW and LSW weapons (And this continues later down, that it was accepted into service as the L85) Narson 21:37, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  LxxAx 

message: I think the criticisms and fallout from them is an important part of the historical record for the SA80 series.  That being said, I think it needs to be added in a functional and objective manner that notes the importance of it without being just someone's personal rant and anecdotes.  Citing from the news stories and official documentation would be the best way. -- Thatguy96 (talk) 01:43, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Absolutely. Tony Williams has some great stuff on his site that could be incorperated at http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/SA80.htm . Worth a look Megapixie (talk) 02:09, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, it's a very good synthesis of the information available. Though I probably wouldn't describe guns.ru as an 'excellent site', have seen suspect claims on there sometimes. Incidentally, has anyone seen a good source on the AR-18-based development claims? I think I've seen something quoting the guy whose company built AR-18s in the UK saying he recognized the bolt... actual information on what, if anything, was used un- or lightly modified would be nice.  John Nevard (talk) 05:24, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticisms section 

message: Just take a look at the two gas systems and you'll know it's an AR-18. The AR-18 is actually currently the most copied gas system of operation in use in the G36, CIS weapons, Japan's Howa rifle, Beretta AR 70/90 etc.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Koalorka (talk • contribs) 07:17, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I've seen stuff about the G36 having a AR-18 derived bolt, too. But the gas system claim seems more dubious. We should have precise, well-verified sources for anything making similar claims. Of course... that's assuming that there's anything new under the sun with firearms, which really isn't often true. John Nevard (talk) 08:04, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

text: For future reference, the Guardian article is the key there. The rest of the text is interesting to read, but it's original research; it seems obvious to you, and it's probably true, but we only have your side of the story, and to an inexpert eye the comparison images are just a lot of metal parts. Imagine a similar discussion going on at e.g. Hulk Hogan, in which one poster argues strenuously that Hogan stole his stage makeup from another wrestler of the 1970s. It might seem obvious to him, but to a non-expert it is meaningless, and the evidence he presents might be skewed or incomplete. However the Guardian article is a cite, a good one, in a major newspaper. -Ashley Pomeroy (talk) 17:23, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

text: Yes, I am aware that, without citing a published source, asserting similarities between the two weapons in the manner I did could be construed as original research - comparison photos or not. Therefore, I added the Guardian article cited, which contains a quote from the former owner of Sterling who makes the point very well. Other articles about the AR-18 also mention its influence on later weapons, for example this one in Guns Magazine from June 2003: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_6_49/ai_100727290/ Strangways (talk) 03:00, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  SA80 based on the Armalite AR18? 

message: In the article Forward assist, it states that the SA80 more or less requires the usage of the forward assist, much more than other rifles, but that is not mentioned here. Is that article incorrect, or should this one be corrected to include that information? Parsecboy 20:30, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A question about forward assists 

message: I understood that the L22 carbines were made a few years after the L85 assault rifles were made. I know that the L22A2 was made with improvements due to the Iraq War, but was the L22A1 made with the SA80 family? Regards. Ominae (talk) 06:13, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: L22 carbine clarification

message: Can any users provide confirmation of the use of the pre-productions weapons during the Falklands Conflict.  I am aware of the use of the M16 in various formats by UK forces at the time but have never seen nor heard any mention of either of the XL's use.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rockape73 (talk • contribs) 17:45, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use of pre-production XL70 and XL73 in the Falklands Conflict 

message: Worth noting that when this gun was described the SAS refused to use them and instead ordered a shipment of M16s from the U.S Army?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.10.97.187 (talk) 18:12, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: the SAS use many weapon systems, the L119A2 (its own variation of the C8 SFW with a monolith upper) being the standard issue, while the G36C (not K, but itself this is being replaced by the Sig Sauer MCX platform with some being in .300 BLK) being seen in CT (Counter Terrorism) roles however they do not need to "pose" as standard soldiers and many units under the UKSF/Special Operations Bridgade refuse to use L85s when they can as the trigger linkage is known to be kind of... subpar, the weapon system being unweildly due to its bullpup nature and the weight compared to the AR-15 Style weapon systems 2A00:23C5:580B:4A01:8C18:83C2:843E:AF4A (talk) 19:45, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  SAS 

message: This is a variant of the L85A1/A2 rifle. The page should be merged. Koalorka (talk) 04:57, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I know it is a variant but there is enough information to warrant a separate article. This can then be summarized in the SA80 article per WP:SUMMARY. Whilst it may be a variant, it is a completely different rifle to the SA80. Woody (talk) 09:28, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: How is it a completely different rifle? It is an L85A1 with a different cocking handle and no gas tube. There is no unique information on the separate Cadet rifle page. Most of it is recycled from the SA80 article and the rest is an instruction manual and a list of personal experiences and folklore from the kiddies that used it. Koalorka (talk) 04:48, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It is an L85A1 with a different cocking handle and no gas tube - that's why.  It's got a completely different operating mechanism, and you can't even cock the two weapons with the same hand - for the L85 you use the left hand, for the L96 it's the right hand.Captain Seafort (talk) 19:25, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, but it is still a minor variant of the L85. You know the policy on variants. Koalorka (talk) 20:06, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

text: That's a very colourful analogy, but the L98 is still just a manual repeater version of the L85 with a cocking handle mechanism and no gas system. The L98 page only exists because of enthusiastic children sharing their experiences as cadets. Koalorka (talk) 05:23, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

text: It should also be mentioned that on a normal strip-down there is little parts commonality between the two weapons; I think that only the bolt is the same. I think that the SA80 has a different spring.ANHL (talk) 10:00, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  No Merge .The L98A2 page has been merged with the L98A1 page, since they are all but the same rifle. The same cannot be said for the L98A1 and the SA80. On completed roll out of the L98A2, i belive these pages should be merged, because the L98+L85A2 will be identical but for the change lever. PS: Even the bolt is different now the L85A2 is in service!Teta (talk) 19:38, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Page merge with SA80

message: really? Chwyatt (talk) 19:09, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  User: Serbia 

message: Apparently it is, according to: Republic of Sierra Leone Armed Forces. You may want to add it to the list of users.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.176.80.208 (talk) 17:25, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Used by their special forces no-less...something just doesn't sound right here. Can anyone actually confirm/deny this?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.30.2.202 (talk) 08:01, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Sa80 in use by the Republic of Sierra Leone Armed Forces?

message: I cannot see any justification for the two separate pages on the two L98 cadet variants of the SA80 system.  The are less different than the L22 or L86 from the 'base' L85 model and of little wider significance as they are soley used by the MoD youth cadet organisations.  I suggest they are subsumed into the relevant sections here. Brookesward (talk) 13:09, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Good idea. No need for a separate article's on firearm variants. --MFIreland (talk) 19:15, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cadet Rifle Articles 

message: The Sterling AR-18 and Stoner 63 bullpup conversions, both look as if they were made from Enfield EM-2s.
*AR-18 Bullpup
*Stoner 63 Bullpup
Ionbh 01:14AM, 28/09/2011 (UTC)
Excellent find - helps demonstrate the role of the AR18 in the development of the SA80. Strangways (talk) 21:10, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  AR-18 and Stoner 63 bullpup conversions 

message: Hi Synaptic peach, some good info on the 4.85mm Enfield, but I have a couple of suggestions to amend it for clarity if I may:
"5.56mm Remington" is a conflation of the military 5.56x45mm NATO and the sporting .223 Remington versions of this cartridge, which though generally interchangeable, are produced to different specifications, including soft point sporting projectiles of various weights for the .223 Rem. The version that I think you are referring to as "then existing" is the US 5.56mm M193 round, which was introduced with the original M16/M16A1 which had a 55 grain projectile. The version that competed with (and was victorious over) the 4.85mm was the Belgian FN-designed SS109 5.56x45mm round which used a heavier 62 grain projectile. 
Your reference to "Armalite" should be replaced by M16/M16A1 for clarity and linked to the M16 rifle page, as the AR18 (which page you have linked to) was never a US standard issue weapon. 
You probably need to find a source for the assertion that the 4.85mm round was seen to be superior. There is one, as I have read it somewhere, can't remember where though. If I recall correctly it is related to the greater sectional density of the projectile which (other things such as muzzle velocity and projectile weight being similar) would mean superior performance at longer ranges.
"far more rounds of ammunition could be carried by an individual soldier". Undoubtedly true when compared to the 7.62mm, which is where the comment undoubtedly originated, but the weight difference between the 4.85mm and 5.56mm rounds is negligible - they are almost the same overall size (i.e. fit in a M16 magazine) and based on the same case, and the projectile weight is within a few grains (437.5 grains in an ounce). 
"Remington and its supporters" Remington wasn't the advocate and was really nothing to do with it - it was the US Government who once again wanted its chosen solution to be adopted by NATO (unsurprising as they constitute more than 50% of NATO contributions). You are right about money being a big factor though. 
There is an expert who contributes on here who has written an entire book on the 5.56 who knows way more than me though - he might comment at some stage. Strangways (talk) 21:01, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  4.85 x 49mm Enfield 

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thread_title:  Blacklisted Links Found on the Main Page 

message: Contrary to the article as of 7/2014, the .22 conversion l98A1 (in my experience) was definitely NOT semi automatic. Semi automatic would have required significant re-training for cadets, and would have complicated the very usage of the weapon that the kit was intended to negate.
Mongoosander (talk) 14:39, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  L98A1 .22 conversion kit NOT semi-auto 

message: Looking at the image of the "Bayonet attached to an L85A2 rifle. Note the barrel to the left," it looks like the bayonet fits into or over the barrel. Surely that can't be right; it would mean the bayonet could only be used as an utter last resort when one was out of ammunition, rather than as an option.
What am I missing? *Septegram*Talk*Contributions* 22:27, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The blade is offset to the side to allow the rifle to fire   — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.2.198.124 (talk) 01:24, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

text: To clarify, the bayonet handle is hollow for the barrel to pass through, and the blade offset. It might be useful if someone has a bayonet can take a picture from an angle demonstrating this. Nick Cooper (talk) 13:51, 10 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bayonet 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20081001234423/http://www.army.mod.uk/linkedfiles/ceso/trained_soldiers/kit_magazine/kit62_hi_res.pdf to http://www.army.mod.uk/linkedfiles/ceso/trained_soldiers/kit_magazine/kit62_hi_res.pdf
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: In the "modifications" section, it says "The L85A1 was required to be able to fire 120 rounds over 24 hours, and the L86A1 was required to fire 800 rounds in 24 hours. The L85A2 is required to fire 150 rounds in 8 minutes 40 seconds, and the L86A2 is required to fire 960 rounds in 36 minutes."
I'm no firearms expert, but five rounds per hour (120 rounds in 24 hours) is a pretty slow rate of fire. I've never fired a muzzleloader, but I'm pretty sure I could do better than 5 shots per hour.
Similarly, 150 rounds in 8 minutes 40 seconds works out to one shot every 3.4 seconds. That's substantially faster than one every six minutes, but even so, seems pretty slow for a semiautomatic combat weapon.
Did the numbers get jiggered or something?
*Septegram*Talk*Contributions* 19:39, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Say What? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: "L98A2 can also be distinguished from the A1 via the presence of a 'HK A2' stamp on their gas cylinders"
As the L98A1 didn't have a gas cylinder is this part of the paragraph pointing out the difference between the L98A2 and L85A1? The wording is a bit ambiguous.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.175.89.208 (talk) 15:35, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: the L98's can also be found with "HK A3" stampings 2A00:23C5:580B:4A01:8C18:83C2:843E:AF4A (talk) 19:38, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  L98A2 "HK A2" 

message: Maybe I'm blind, but I can't see it stated anywhere in the article.  I would have assumed basic information like this would be fairly prominent Hammerfrog (talk) 09:58, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Added to opening sentence. Loafiewa (talk) 14:38, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: The article could use some more history in general of the SA80 project rather than just preceding experimental weapons. GraemeLeggett (talk) 16:29, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  What does the 'SA' in SA80 mean? 

message: Why my edit "Caliber" not shows. Before edit there is an Calibre. Re? BlackeagleYT (talk) 14:49, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit not shows (caliber) 

message: the L22A2 is also used by 4/73 "Sphinx" battery Royal Artillery 2A00:23C5:580B:4A01:8C18:83C2:843E:AF4A (talk) 19:37, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  L22A2