Talk:Ojibwe

message: It is my understanding that the names Sioux and Dakota refer to the same peoples.  Is this correct?  And if so, it is confusing to use both terms without an explanation in the Ojibwa article.
BlueCanoe 12/20/04
Yes and no, depending on which Sioux you're talking about.  The Sioux are the Dakota, Lakota and Nakota.  The Sioux that Ojibwe encountered in Wisconsin and parts of Minnesota were definitely Dakota.  However, the Plains Ojibwe would have encountered the Nakota, Dakota after the Uprise, and possibly an occasional Lakota.  Nakota is better known by their Ojibwe name — Assiniboine (Asiniibwaan) — or by their English Name — Stoney Sioux — which is a literal translation of their name in Ojibwe.
CJLippert 09/22/05
Ojibwa are also sometimes called Chippewa.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.181.70.95 (talk) 19:05, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inconsistent shifting between Sioux and Dakota 

message: Not "Ontario", but "Northwestern Ontario"; 1,000 miles away from Toronto (which, unfortunately, is the only city most Americans know of in Canada; not their fault).  Why is there no mention of the various Ojibwe or Ojibwa settlements throughout Northwestern Ontario?  I'm referring to the region of Ontario bordering Manitoba and Minnesota, so far away from Toronto that Torontonians don't even consider it part of their province (ask them if they'd take a job transfer up to "NOW" and they shudder in disgust).
Remote, fly-in-only Ojibwe settlements like Attawapiskat and Sandy Lake, as well as very 'urban' reserves like the Fort William First Nation, near Thunder Bay?  Given the high level of urbanisation and cultural assimilation of Ojibwa/Chippewa in the US Upper Midwest --- such as in Minnesota or Wisconsin --- I would argue that the Ojibwe of Northwestern Ontario are the most "natural" Ojibwe, the ones who remain closest to their wilderness traditions.  But that's just me, lol.  
Anyway, just wondering why there is no mention in this Wiki article of the rich Ojibwe heritage of Northwestern Ontario (not to mention the evidence of "Paleo-Indian" civilisations all around the city of Thunder Bay, dating back over 9,000 years).  Thank you.
:Useful suggestion but a recommendation of sources for this info would be helpful to editors.Parkwells (talk) 15:11, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Northwestern Ontario 

message: the intro states that the Ojibwa are the largest group of Native Americans north of Mexico, but only the third largest in the US.  Seems fishy to me. -lethe talk [ +] 14:58, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It could be -- the population is divided between the U.S. and Canada, so if you take the population in both countries into consideration, it may be the largest in North America, but the portion in the U.S. might not be the largest within that country. Just speculation though --a atatement like that should have some sort of references to back it up. older ≠ wiser 15:26, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  third or first biggest? 

message: This sentence is copied from the end of the "Culture" section:
>>An interesting example of the Ojibwe culture is that there is no word for "Goodbye".
It seems insubstantial added on a whim.  From what I know about the Ojibwe language, the word for "hello," "Boozhoo," comes from the name of the "saviour" of the Ojibwe people, Waynaboozhoo, and this greeting, translated as "hello," represents the endless search for his reincarnation in the world.  Perhaps something about this could be added to the final paragraph of the "Culture" section to make this sentence not seem so flimsy.
: Well, there is a "see you later" greeting in Ojibwe, but there isn't a "farewell" greeting.  In reality, there isn't a "Hello" greeting, either.  However, like "aloha" in the Hawai'ian language, both "boozhoo" and "aanii(n)" are used as both "hello" and "good bye" though their use as "hello" is much, much more common.  The term "aanii(n)" means "what" or "how"... in this case a shortening of the phrase "What is your Doodem (clan)?" so that the addresser would know how to treat the addressed (as family, friend, guest or enemy).  The origins of "boozhoo" is highly controversial.  Some say that it comes from the French "Bon jour" so "boozhoo" can be used as one would with "good day" in English, which can be both "hello" and "good bye."  However, there are just as many people claiming the "Wenabozho" origins for "boozhoo".  Unfortunately, inclusion of "boozhoo" example in the article will result in moving away from the NPOV Wikipedia upholds.  In my real life job, for official correspondences, I use terms such as "baanimaa" (later), "niin sa" (yours) or "miigwech" (thank you) as my closings.  CJLippert 18:03, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In my real life job, for other official correspondences, I use additional terms such as "mii sa go i'iw" (that is all)... which often I just shorten to "i'iw" or "i'iw sa", depending on if I want an emphasis or not, "haaw" for strong assertion, or "gegapii sa" as something a bit more stronger than "baanimaa".  So, there isn't really a "good bye" but there are plenty of other terms that can be used in its place. CJLippert 05:10, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  No word for "goodbye" 

message: My experience with this band is that most would identify as either Roman Catholic or Methodist, not consistent with the articles reference for ancient beliefs, medicine wheels etc. Not sure if my anecdotal reference is correct, but can someone show some documentation either way?  66.72.215.225 17:48, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was taking a look at the article today and there do seem to be an increase in the Midewiwin assertions into this article since the last I looked.  Inclusion of Midewiwin is important since, at least at the Mille Lacs Reservation, Midewiwin practitioners are nearly half of the population, Roman Catholics are also nearly half of the population, and the Protestants are in the very small minority.  From what I have been told, Red Lake Reservation have a similar profile.  White Earth Reservation, from what I have been told, nearly half are Protestants, with the remaining half being approximate equal in number in Midewiwin and Roman Catholic.  Since the 1970's, Fond du Lac Reservation, Grand Portage Reservation and Leech Lake Reservation are about a third each.  You have to keep one thing in mind, at least within the United States, from about 1880's until 1978, it was illegal in the US for  Indians to declair themselves as non-Christian, because there was a policy to "Civilize the Savages to be good, productive Christians."  Those who were Midewiwin practitioners were either murdered or were carted off to mental assylums.  In 1978, with the passing of the American Indian Religious Freedom Act, all traditional indigenous faith systems, including Midewiwin, again breathed religeous freedom.   Densmore and Hilger recorded Midewiwin practices, as did Fred Blessing, Jr., during the persicutory period.  More recently, Eddie Benton Benai wrote "The Mishomis Book" that documents more of the Midewiwin practices.  In Canada, due to the isolation policy that better help retain the Ojibwe language in those communities, though there are significant number of Roman Catholic, Anglican and Wesleyan practioners in the Ojibwe communities, there is a strong and growing minority of Midewiwin asserting themselves in those communities.  The Midewiwin assertions in the article might be a reflection of the assertions in these communities in Canada. CJLippert 17:42, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Religion reference 

message: Perhaps the Battle of Mole Lake should be referenced here somewhere.  I'm only posting this because of the notice at the top of that article– I trust that persons more knowledgable about the topic than myself will be able to integrate this (or not if it's too minor).  Thanks.--Pharos 03:53, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Military history 

message: User:Leo1410 have begun a survey of all thing associated with the Anishinaabe peoples.  Please visit (and possibly add, edit) to User:Leo1410/Anishinaabe, or from there create a new article.  Miigwech CJLippert 05:31, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Survey of [[Anishinaabe]]-related articles 

message: I reverted an edit by User:Puccini999 that changed all spellings of Ojibwa to Ojibwe.  Since everything on wiki is based around the Ojibwa spelling, I figured it was too much of a hassle to change everything.  However, I do prefer the "Ojibwe" spelling as it is the spelling in the double-vowel alphabet and is more likely to be pronounced correctly in English than Ojibwa is.  If someone is passionate enough about changing it, I support it, but make sure to clean up after yourself. 
Leo1410 04:23, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ojibwa vs. Ojibwe 

message: For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all  infoboxes. Comments may be left on the Ethnic groups talk page. Ling.Nut 17:02, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "related groups" info removed from infobox 

message: I have an Ojibwe/Ojibwa prayer to a slain deer and it's pretty neat.  I was wondering if anyone thinks that I should put it on the article someplace?Mattkenn3 22:42, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It wouldn't be appropriate to place "Ojibwe Prayer to a Slain Deer" in the Ojibwa article.  However, it would be very appropriate to provide an external link to the "Ojibwe Prayer to a Slain Deer" at the Anishinaabe traditional beliefs article. CJLippert 23:21, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ojibwe Prayer to a Slain Deer 

message: The link for the maps (#2) is not valid.
James  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.119.221.235 (talk) 21:50, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Miigwech.  The link problem seems to be at the Manitoba Chiefs' site and not Wikipedia.  I have replaced the link instead to go to The Atlas of Canada.  It isn't as direct, but when you zoom to the location of interest, you can get more information and access the static maps just like the ones Manitoba Chiefs had.  Hope this helps. CJLippert 22:45, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bad link 

message: The article states that: "The six great miigis beings then established doodem (clans) for the peoples in the east. Of these doodem, the five original Anishinaabe doodem were the Wawaazisii (Bullhead), Baswenaazhi (Echo-maker, i.e., Crane), Aan'aawenh (Pintail Duck), Nooke (Tender, i.e., Bear) and Moozoonsii (Little Moose), then these six miigis beings returned into the ocean as well. If the seventh miigis being stayed, it would have established the Thunderbird doodem."
What is the sixth doodem?  And what is the Ojibwe word for Thunderbird (which seems to be the seventh miigis that left for the ocean before the other six)?  Thanks!
This map needs work.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.125.136.224 (talk) 01:52, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The Thunderbeing/Thunderer/Thunderbird is Animikii. The six doodem groups are the large birds (e.g. Baswenaazhi), little birds (e.g. Aan'aawenh), fish (e.g. Wawaazisii), hoofs (e.g. Moozoonsii), large paws (e.g. Nooke) and the little paws. Just as there are the original Migizi (Bald Eagle) and the those of US ancestry that were folded into the Migizi-doodem, the sixth doodem of the little paws group is generally said to be the Waabizheshi (Marten), but there are those of the original Waabizheshi-doodem, and when the person's actual doodem is not known, the default adoptive doodem is also designated as the Waabizheshi-doodem. Because the little paws group was established by the sixth Miigis being, but that particular doodem was originally not part of the Anishinaabe doodem groups, often the little paws group as a whole are treated as a subgroup within the hoofs group. See "Doodem" for more info. CJLippert (talk) 20:35, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question for Clarity 

message: The lists of bands, notable people and treaties are very long in this article and take up a lot of space.  Perhaps, as in some other articles, they should be moved and each created as a separate article, with references and links from this one.  For instance, when editors were working on the "List of African American Firsts", they noticed there were many "first" mayors, so a separate page was made for List of First African-American Mayors. Similarly, in the Mississippi state article, some coverage is given to notable people, but most are listed in a separate, linked article.--Parkwells (talk) 17:54, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Separate pages for bands, notable people and treaties

message: I believe that parts of this are long term vandalism.
:Is Arkansas  really "Damn Little Kansas"?
:Is Kanasas really "Hell Hole"?
I'm not certain, it seems to me that both referred to "People of the South Wind". Capitalismojo (talk) 13:24, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Just as genocide was committed against the Mundua tribe (Mandaawe) because they were "greedy and inhospitable" (mendawed), though their name would really come from Mandaawe ("call through [the night]", as to describe a whippoorwill call), or that the Inuit are called Ashki-amaw ("eat it raw"), though again, their name really comes from Montagnais to mean "Snowshoe netters", the Kaw (Kansas) and Quapaw (Arkansas) names were borrowed in "as it sounds", but again as in forementioned example, also ended up with unflattering names in Ojibwe. Though in Kaw and Quapaw, their own name would mean "People of the South Wind", aakaa in Ojibwe expresses a state of miserable locale. If "People of the South Wind" were literally translated, it would have been Zaawaninoowe. CJLippert (talk) 19:56, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other tribes known by their Ojibwe/Ottawa names 

message: It appears that there are roughly three times as many Ojibwe in Canada as the US. Yet the opening paragraph states an equal balance. Furthermore, the right hand summary panel references the Ojibwe people as being found primarily in the US and Canada in that order.  Shouldn't that be the other way round?  This seems way out of balance with reality.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.138.9.13 (talk) 12:28, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Will reword those areas. Miigwech! CJLippert (talk) 14:28, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opening claim of "equally divided between United States and Canada" at extreme odds with stats provided 

message: Where was gotten info about total population Ojibwe people in Canada? What sources?--Kaiyr (talk) 15:05, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Total population 

message: None of the population numbers in the Lead or Infobox have sources, and the numbers do not appear sourced within the main article.Parkwells (talk) 17:27, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Population numbers lack sources

message: I reverted an IP who has repeatedly changed the spelling in the article to Ojibwa.  I believe consensus following the page move is for Ojibwe.  GregJackP Boomer!  23:57, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Ojibwe v. Ojibwa

message: Has been rehired as coach of the Buffalo Sabres. His tab under notable people should be updated.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.85.66.29 (talk) 04:46, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ted Nolan 

message: Can someone knowledgeable please check the "Other tribes known by their Ojibwe/Ottawa names" section and revert back any childish vandalism.  A thorough read of the article looking for another 'edits' is probably necessary as well.207.164.34.254 (talk) 04:57, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed a section that seemed to be the work of vandals.  This is not the first time that this article has been vandalized...  I read the entire article and if there is more, I'm not aware of it.  Thanks for the alert!  Gandydancer (talk) 14:58, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: Meegwun Fairbrother is an Actor, Traditional Singer and Traditional Dancer, attributed as Ojibway from Grassy Narrows First Nation. He is currently a supporting actor in the Scyfy Channel new series "Helix" (January 2014). Biography information can be found here: http://www.atlasstage.com/people/meegwun-fairbrother/
http://www.atlasstage.com/people/meegwun-fairbrother/
(Note: The linked bio is a bit out of date, since it doesn't include his most recent work.)
Thank you.
24.99.111.155 (talk) 23:34, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the info!  I added it. Gandydancer (talk) 13:13, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please add Meegwun Fairbrother (Actor/Traditional Singer/Traditional Dancer) to notable people 

message: There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Chipewyan people which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RMCD bot 09:45, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Move discussion in progress

message: A new editor posted a plea for edits in the article rather than here. I move it here for discussion.:
::"P.S Wikepedia: The Ojibwa were found along the shore of Lake Huron and Lake Superior to the edge of the praries." - Vivianwii
I imagine that, with proper refs, we could add this info into the article. Capitalismojo (talk) 20:29, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: It's already covered within the article.Parkwells (talk) 12:17, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please Please Wikipedia 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The lead reads, "The majority of the Ojibwe peoples live in Canada. There are 77,940 mainline Ojibwe; 76,760 Saulteaux and 8,770 Mississaugas, organized in 125 bands, and living from western Quebec to eastern British Columbia. As of 2010, Ojibwe in the U.S. number 170,742." So in Canada there are 77940+76760+8770 = 163,470 Ojibweg, but that's more than the 170,742 in the USA? Am I missing something?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by IAmNitpicking (talk • contribs) 21:45, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with you. Where did number of Ojibwe peoples of Canada come from?--Kaiyr (talk) 19:54, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Numbers do not add up 

message: Substituted at 01:46, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The numbers in that paragraph are confusing.  The total of the three numbers given for Canada is 163,470.  The number for the U.S. 170,742, which is obviously more.  Some numbers are missing for Canada, or there are more in the U.S.
Rocksnstars (talk) 00:34, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  majority of the Ojibwe people live in Canada 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I will be adding a paragraph regarding gender roles of Ojibwe men and women, pre Columbian. 
Thelbee (talk) 02:14, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: The Ojibwe people are a living culture, so please do not write about them in the past tense. Learn the difference between what was done in the past and what is still done in the culture before trying to write about the culture. Learn how to cite content properly for Wikipedia. See WP:CITE. You need more practice before working in article space. - CorbieV ☊ ☼ 21:23, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: What if he actually wants to study pre-colonial Ojibwe, you know, before their culture was fundamentally altered by contact with the Europeans? Like people study old French apart from Modern French, or Roman Era Britain apart from modern Brits. He didn't imply they were a dead culture, so calm down. 66.81.179.206 (talk) 14:53, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

text: It was good sourced material.    Needed a couple words changed to clarify the tense / era issues.  And  you put a vandalism type notice on their talk page. Now and both the editor and the material are gone.Nice work  CorbieVreccan. North8000 (talk) 20:17, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gender Roles - Pre Columbian 

message: Is there a map for the present distribution of the Ojibwe? If so it should be included in the article, if not it should be created. Scu ba (talk) 02:37, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Present distribution map 

message: This article describes their location at the time of the first European contact. I've read in several places that they were from the east coast and them moved into the area described in this article. If so, it would be good to cover this. North8000 (talk) 18:59, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: "According to Ojibwe oral history and from recordings in birch bark scrolls, the Ojibwe originated from the mouth of the Saint Lawrence River on the Atlantic coast of what is now Quebec.[17]" Yuchitown (talk) 19:08, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: That section seems to blend mythology and history, giving it the same status/ treatment as them being taught by Cowrie shells. I'll keep my eyes open for any academic sources that would help. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 19:57, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Older history

message: The gallery towards the end of the article seems to me to be poorly organized mishmash of images. Many of the captions don't give a lot of context. Inasmuch as there's already a link to Commons, why does this article need a gallery like this? Indyguy (talk) 22:31, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gallery