Talk:Kimveer Gill

message: Wouldn't it be a good idea to add details about his family life?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Liquinn (talk • contribs) 21:52, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: I don't know how to edit on Wikipedia, but I wanted to bring something to someone's attention. The article notes that there have been conflicting claims regarding whether or not Kimveer Gill listed Super Columbine Massacre as one of his favorite games. The current article states that he did not, and then lists all the games he did mention. The problem is that all three sources that are cited for these claims (footnotes 18, 19, and 20) are dead links. In addition, scanned pages that were printed from Gill's website two days after the attack show that Gill did include Super Columbine Massacre among his favorite games. These pages are posted on the website www.schoolshooters.info on the original documents page under the title "Kimveer Gill Online." These pages may also be of interest because I noticed that other comments on this page raised the question of the veracity of his last comments and the issue of no longer having access to his vampirefreaks profile and pages. DrKate38 (talk) 22:13, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Super Columbine Massacre

message: Why call him a sikh everywhere.  From the looks of all his pics/interests/etc, he clearly didn't care about his religion.  Call him Punjabi instead.  Calling him a sikh implys his religion matters, and it doesn't, it just gives Sikhs a bad name.
: I agree, religion doesn't really matter. I strongly recommend that we mention his Indian ancestry instead.
I disagree. He is a minority and so it is nice to know what his origins are. He is of Sikh origin whether he likes it or not.
:Origin only accounts for his ancestry and family history not what he is. 
::His ancestry and religion are irrelevant here. He may have been of Punjabi heritage but he was Canadian, his family may follow or his ancestry may follow/have followed Sikhism but apparently he didn't so he himself wasn't Sikh. A person can choose to convert to another religion or not adhere to any religion regardless of his/her family. According to his profile on Vampirefreaks.com, Gill was a satanist, although the wiki article claims he was atheist.
Religion has a concern for human beings but not for those who have wild thoughts.
I've removed the reference to anyone's religion. I could not find a single news article or citable source stating his religion. All that I found pointed back to this wiki article. TheDarknessVisible 07:47, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Religion

message: His profile is still viewable via Google Cache:  http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:I3pvdq9pT1MJ:vampirefreaks.com/u/fatality666+fatality666&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3
88.108.33.248 17:58, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: it's still available on the site. -W guice 01:29, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Does anybody know how the name "Kimveer Gill" is pronounced? Indian names are not quite familiar enough to me. --Revth 06:32, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree.  Had he been Muslim, that would have been put here.  Likewise if he had been a WASP, or any of a number of other ethnicities, it would have been here.  The relevance is important in understanding the individual.  Yaf 23:52, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

text: good on you Steve Lowther for researching how similar wiki articles have been written. your findings resolve disputes in about three sections or more of this page alone. i support this, if it comes to a vote. --  Denstat 08:33, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Profile

message: Cached profile mentioned above and in the article appears to be gone.. other links to it?  Joe 23:58, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed the dead link to the profile on the main site, since the vampirefreaks.com's administrators deleted it. There are links to two mirrors though Swalot 17:05, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Cached Profile Gone?

message: [full reprint of statement by jet]
Should this, from < http://vampirefreaks.com > , be included?? Thank You. Hopiakuta 01:48, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There's no reason we can't quote from it, but it should be cited using the proper format and access, especially if there isn't a permanent URL. --Dhartung | Talk 02:10, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

text: It's Km/h and I supposse, by this, that you come from a British colony or ex-colony. Maybe you get your posts erased because they are irrelevant things like above U_U :S EOZyo (мѕğ) 06:15, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

text: By "nefarious regulation dogma" you mean copyright law? There's no reason to get so upset about someone deleting your copy-and-paste of the post in question. If you want to refer to it, you can link directly to the post: http://vampirefreaks.com/journal_comment.php?entry=2850563. I don't see how this has anything to do with disability access, at all. Remember WP:AGF, and WP:NPA and all that. --Q Canuck 18:38, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should this, from < http://vampirefreaks.com > , be included??: 

message: I added this article to the :Category:Spree killers yesterday. I see that it has now been removed. I frankly see no good reason why this was done. Gill started a shooting spree with deadly consequences. Even if only one person got killed in the hail of bullets, it's still a spree killing. Aecis Appleknocker Flophouse 09:58, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: i agree. his modus operandi and intent was that of a spree killer, and there but for the grace of quick police intervention that limited his time in the building (approx 7 minutes), and gill's arrival a few minutes before a class changeover break, casualties could have been off the charts. people need to lift their noses beyond the body count. i'm reinstating the category. -- Denstat 18:14, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I removed the category as his inclusion is inappropriate.  The :Category:Spree killers clearly states that those included are Spree Killers.  When one visits the Spree Killers page to determine what the meaning of a Spree killer is, one can clearly see that a Spree killer is someone who "kills at two or more locations with almost no time break in between."  Anyone can clearly see that a single murder and 19 some wounded persons is not a "spree killing" it is a murder, and not more.  This is an encyclopedia, not a personal school paper.  Included information should be factual based on the stated rules of the encyclopedia and should not mislead the readers into false assumptions.  This person is NOT a spree killer.  He is a murderer, and if there is a category for it, a "school shooting killer," not a Spree killer.  His intent at the onset is immaterial.  Dan Marino played every year with the INTENTION of winning a Super Bowl, but we would not include him in the "Super Bowl Champion" category because of the intent.  Al Gore INTENDED to be President, but we would not include him in the "Presidents of the United States" category just on intent.  John Hinkley Jr. INTENDED to kill Ronald Reagan, but failed...he is not included in the "Assasins" category, but rather in one that is more appropriate "Failed Assasins." I'm going to change the "Spree Killer" category listed here, to the spree shootings category where Gill will be in much more appropriate company (i.e. Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold, Kip Kinkel, etc.).  Batman2005 00:29, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: thanks for the clarification, but no thanks for the out of line scolding, and uppercase shouting. after consulting wiki definitions for various categories of murderer, two things are clear: 1) the definition of spree killer seem based on only one source -- that of the u.s. justice department (Bureau of Justice Statistics). i found two dictionary definitions that define spree killer less narrowly in the Webster Dictionary and Bartleby/American Heritage. i'd say the definitions and categories of murderer used in this encyclopedia need work, if they're only based on one national source. 2) gill's case doesn't fit clearly into any category, as a rampage/spree-style shooter who was quickly stopped, and has only killed one person so far. his case is obviously in flux. he may be another type of monster altogether. --  Denstat 05:54, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

text: "kills at two or more locations with almost no time break in between." It should be noted that he killed himself too -- thus making the kill count 2 and eligible for the Spree Killers category.  I thought it said two victims not locationsGeedubber 05:59, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I don't believe it was out of line at all, I tire of people on here adding their opinions, rather than truth.  Any reasonable person who looked at the definition and pages that I mentioned could clearly see that this person does not fit, like I said, even the most liberal definition.  I'm actually in favor of starting a "School Shooters" category as a sub-category of the Murders category of something to that effect, but i've never started a category and i'm not sure how to go about it. Batman2005 13:31, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Category:Spree killers 

message: Somebody just removed the word "motherfuckers" from the end of one of his quotations. Can anybody confirm whether it was there or not? I don't have an account on Vampire Freaks (and don't want one). Remember, WP is not censored! --Storkk 11:51, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Googling for "But he finds the vast majority to be worthless, no good, kniving, betraying, lieing, deceptive, motherfuckers" yields only one hit: Fatality666 . Aecis Appleknocker Flophouse 15:27, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Quotation

message: Can anyone verify the accuracy of Kimveer's last online logs? I tried myself, but the google's cached version of his website dated back in May 2006. Curiously, yesterday I was able to see his cached profile that was dated in September 10, but that was gone when I tried to look. Well, I hope nothing is lost for authorities and for the public in the future.--Janarius 14:07, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I could not verify them, I put  tags to prompt someone to find sources.TheDarknessVisible 05:02, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Veracity of last online statements 

message: Is gone, make an account and view profile here: http://web2.vampirefreaks.com/u/fatality666 211.28.37.241 14:45, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: it says "That User Does Not Exist" now TheDarknessVisible 05:04, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cached Profile 

message: I removed the "VIEWER DISCRETION ADVISED" text that was next to the link to the cache of Gill's vampire freaks profile. I've never seen a warning on an external link before and no reason was given why discretion is needed. If this warning is inline with current wiki-policy then feel free to add it back Geedubber 05:11, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  VIEWER DISCRETION ADVISED 

message: When I got to this page, it had something like: "Kimveer is one scared p1ece of sh1t" or something like that. Then when I checked the history, it was full of reversions of editing/vandalism, many made by the same IP/Name. I just think that it should be protected. Yeah...Casual Karma 02:23, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, This page won't be taken down.  Just as the pages for Adolf Hitler, Eric Harris, Kip Kinkel, Jeffrey Dahmer, Stanley Williams and the HUNDREDS other pages for criminals or unfavorable people that are listed here.  This is an encyclopedia of history and newsworthy events, information, people, subjects, etc.  If you think that this person is being glorified, then that's your perogative, but the page will remain. Batman2005 01:17, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protecting? 

message: The descriptive line next to the "Natural Born Killers" link (under the "see also" category) seems inaccurate, at least considering the information cited (the blog). Yes, the film is listed on his blog as one of his favourites, but it's part of a list of dozens of other films as well. I couldn't find any reference on the blog to how the film inspired him to act on his violent impulses. Referring to the film as "implicated" in the crime seems to be quite a stretch. I suggest keeping the link, but removing the editorializing comment. --Lewzr 04:03, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: agree, but i think the link ought to come out as well, as its inclusion is highly selective/biased. his blog also listed The Daily Show as one of his faves. shall we also include and speculate on how that was "implicated" in his crime? all of his media references or nothing, i say, unless specific evidence comes to light that points to something specifically over another. --  Denstat 15:56, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I see someone has changed the NBK attribution to read "This is the ninth mass killing to mention the movie" but the english is a little clunky -- mass killings don't "mention" anything. I'm going to change to "This is the ninth mass killing to be associated with the movie." This strikes me as the least biased approach, at the moment, and while I agree for the most part that the link probably shouldn't be there at all, the film does have enough of a history of being associated with violent crime that it seems worth mentioning. --Lewzr 19:49, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Implicating" Natural Born Killers 

message: Listed for semi-protection due to the vandalism: here
-- DanielBC 02:14, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Requesting Protection

message: I came to the page it has something about LGBT rights in New Zealand...What the hell is that about?
72.69.145.201 22:19, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems that it was just a bot malfunctioning. It's fixed now. // PoeticDecay 22:55, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  LGBT? 

message: Some editor found it necessary to delete the screenshot of Kimveer Gill's profile page at vampirefreaks (either because it's wasn't fair use, or because it was too big - they couldn't quite make up their mind).
The reason I uploaded the whole page, rather than just a selective excerpt was that it wasn't up to me to decide what part is relevant and what isn't. And especially in a controversial case like this there should be as little censoring done as possible. It is a bit over 1MB, but I don't see how people with slow modems should be deciding factor on whether something is newsworthy or not...
As the page had been removed from vampirefreaks pretty quickly, and all Google caches are lost by now, this screenshot seemed to be the only way to conserve the page in its completeness.
For now I've posted it on imageshack, but perhaps some of the people who run the Kimveer Gill blogs would want to copy it to their sites, so that there will be a permanent place where this can be kept. --Frescard 17:42, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Profile Screencap 

message: He mentions Linkin Park twice as well--66.146.157.12 21:03, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Music list 

message: I deleted the photo gallery because all the pictures were listed at PUI and are nonfree and no one spoke up on their behalf. If anyone wants to make an argument that they are fair use, let me or another admin know and I will undelete one or more (though I may challenge the FU argument). Thanks, Calliopejen1 (talk) 23:26, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  deleted photos 

message: I’m hearing in the news (radio CJAD) right now that the coroner’s report on Kimveer Gill has still not been released, and that the police’s account of his death does not match the wounds seen on his body at his funeral. — NRen2k5(TALK), 15:08, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Coroner’s report 

message: I think this article goes into too much trivial detail about this guy's life. Do we really need to know his exact list of favourite bands, or his likes and dislikes? How is that information encyclopaedic? Terraxos (talk) 01:49, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you remember Columbine, and all the talk about how Eric and Dylan played Doom and listened to Rammstein? — NRen2k5(TALK), 22:46, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Surely the world needs to remember that this guy hated warm beer!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.152.73.28 (talk) 20:03, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too much detail? 

message: Should this article be merged with the shooting wiki? Steve Kazmierczak, Robert A. Hawkins, and Sulejman Talović are examples of spree killers who have had their wiki merged in with the original shooting wiki. Kimveer Gill does not seem to hold much notability to have a wiki, other than the shooting. 192.82.21.47 (talk) 01:52, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merged with [[Dawson College shooting]]? 

message: All of the angry ones are detailed, but what about this?
"VF Girls	September 06, 2006, 04:15:am
Hey vf babies, hope you're all doing o.k.
Sorry there's so many motherfuckers in the world, if i was there i'd help you out. But in the meantime, don't cut yourselves, don't cry, and definatley don't kill yourselves. You're my babies :) (hugs and teddy bears for all)
None of what you feel is your fault, it's the worlds fault. It's your parents fault, it's the churches fault, it's your classmates fault, it's your co-workers fault, it's gods fault, it's societies fault, it's those so called friends of yours (who arn't really friends at all) fault.
My heart bleeds when i here about you hurting yourself, because of what the world has done."
http://www.kimveergill.net/journal03.html
24.8.141.123 (talk) 18:24, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  online statements too one-sided 

message: kimveer gill with his bedroom posters, posturing, silly mask (aged 25).  Maybe "vampirefreaks" managed to keep him there.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.5.14.76 (talk) 10:02, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  immaturity 

message: "He was deemed unsuitable for military service and agreed to leave before receiving extensive weapons training."
I'm sorry - I don't understand this. Does it mean he was deemed unsuitable and agreed to leave, and then completed "extensive weapons training" and THEN *finally* was released, or does it mean that he was released before he WOULD HAVE normally received "extensive weapons training"? I'm not too familiar with this area of history.
--121.72.149.217 (talk) 04:00, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confusion - military training 

message: It states in the last paragraph of the background section that "In detailed interviews with Gill's friends from the Punjabi community it was revealed that Gill was not accepted in the community because of his perceived homosexuality and feminine demeanor." In the citation given, this is not mentioned, and I also googled it and failed to find any reliable sources to justify that contention. Shall I remove it? JDiala (talk) 21:01, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Homosexuality 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 6 external links on Kimveer Gill. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080430192032/http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/09/14/montreal.shooting/index.html to http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/09/14/montreal.shooting/index.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140816034421/http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/story.html?id=b80740cf-e43e-411d-a131-b07ebaa8335b to http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/story.html?id=b80740cf-e43e-411d-a131-b07ebaa8335b
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121114120417/http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/story.html?id=d1933b65-8a0c-454f-bff0-9e072f8918b5&p=1 to http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/story.html?id=d1933b65-8a0c-454f-bff0-9e072f8918b5&p=1
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160117143059/http://www.canada.com/reginaleaderpost/news/canada_world/story.html?id=b3472ac0-b095-40b6-84f4-8b4e69d0930b to http://www.canada.com/reginaleaderpost/news/canada_world/story.html?id=b3472ac0-b095-40b6-84f4-8b4e69d0930b
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080430192032/http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/09/14/montreal.shooting/index.html to http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/09/14/montreal.shooting/index.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080430192032/http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/09/14/montreal.shooting/index.html to http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/09/14/montreal.shooting/index.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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I have just modified one external link on Kimveer Gill. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070312010255/http://www.canada.com/topics/news/features/dawsonshooting/story.html?id=689b60e6-7ded-447c-b9b9-3d6ff521107b&k=89135 to http://www.canada.com/topics/news/features/dawsonshooting/story.html?id=689b60e6-7ded-447c-b9b9-3d6ff521107b&k=89135
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thread_title:  External links modified