Talk:Hydronium

message: I just wanna ask about the h4o bonded water a product from Japan since 2007. the company has stated that "H4O -600mV is the most powerful hydrogen enhanced water with a perfect pH of 7.3. Hydrogen selectively eliminates free radicals, the ones that damage our cells. Hydrogen is the smallest molecule and since it is a gas it easily passes through your body. We measured an increase in hydrogen within the blood after drinking. H4O -600mV contains 1,500,000 times more hydrogen than tap water and 24 to 36 more times than alkaline electrolysis water. 
Most nutraceutical beverages are hot-filled and have preservatives, which keeps extends the expiration date by 1-2 years." Is there any validity to this given information? (vahn_dinio) 00:35, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The pKa of H4O2+ should be around -30, so it will form only under extreme conditions. There are two possibilites: water with added H+, and water with dissolved H2. The former would simply be acidic water, and the latter would be so insoluble that it would be both harmless and pointless. RedPanda25 22:02, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

text: I doubt this is how it happened and think that it's most likely just the marketing explanation but I find the idea that it may have just been someone writing down H₂·H₂O and someone else simplifying it to H₄O mildly interesting. No clue why. JGHFunRun (talk) 01:42, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  H<sub>4</sub>O 

message: Does H3O+ have its own boiling point? Does steam have H3O (thus a pH) after partially evaporating an acidic water?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.249.0.61 (talk) 14:18, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: H₃O⁺ does not have its own boiling point. As for steam having any hydronium hydroxide/self ionization I am unsure JGHFunRun (talk) 01:44, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Steam 

message: *) I have added information from a recent article by MArkovitch & Agmon to the solvation section.
I would like to also add a picture and some more detailes, how can I do so?
I'd like to add the folloiwng picture: solvation shells energies. omermar
I don't think this is entirely appropriate for the general hydronium article.  If the figure or related information can be found in the reference then I think it's enough for interested parties.  Perhaps you can add to the Grotthuss mechanism page.  Pigwiggle 18:36, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Solvation shells

message: an oxonium ion is R3O+ and can be hydronium but also a protonated ketone or aldehyde, I propose to split of oxonium to the more general meaning V8rik 22:39, 9 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, that's based off the solvent system definition isn't it? In which case, that would be the Solvonium, or <anything>-ium relative to dissociation of afforementioned compound/molecule. Beside that, the OXO is the IUPAC prefix for oxygen -- if there is a functional bonding atom it'd be named off what that was; ammonium, phosphonium, iodonium. Get your IUPAC Systematic Substitutive Nomenclature books :-3  J O  R D A N [talk ] 15:47, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Take a peek here  J O  R D A N [talk ] 15:50, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

text: maybe, but no one uses it.Pigwiggle 16:17, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No one uses it? I don't think so. "Hydroxonium" is the term used in the syllabus I'm studying. My textbook and a few textbooks from other publishers are also using this term. Using Google, I found 19,600 results.202.40.137.198
that doesnt matter. what matters is what it is.
Javsav 11:00, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Fine, but don't get all excited about moving the page or anything.  Folks will  be coming here to read about the hydronium cation.  I'm exceedingly familiar with the literature and absolutely everyone uses hydronium.  I don't recall ever reading oxonium or hydroxonium.  I'd bet the farm hydronium is used exclusively in the page references. Pigwiggle 14:38, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  oxonium and hydronium  ions are different  

message: Can you make pure hydronium?
=) I suppose you could, if you took a measured quantity of a strong mineral acid (HCl or some such) and added an equal amount of moles of pure water to it. If you then filter out the anions (Cl) by putting it through a membrane, you would be left with hydronium.
:doubt it; you would have a huge charge deficit not to mention two highly reducing/oxidizing solutions Pigwiggle 16:20, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The only way you can have pure hydronium is in the gas phase. Not something you would store in a bottle, though. --Itub 10:20, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  You can make pure hydronium (i.e., H3O+ instead of larger clusters) with a counterion simply by making the monohydrate of a strong acid such as triflic.  But there's no way you can "filter out the anions".Tressure 21:59, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Nope, because hydronium is a cation, while hydrogen (metallic or not) is electrically neutral. Perhaps you could make a "metallic H3O", but not a "metallic H3O+". --Itub (talk) 09:53, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

text: You can make pure hydronium by using a voltage clamp; a pipette with a positively charged cathode (wire attached to battery).  The cathode will attract the conjugate anion in the mineral acid, say Cl- in HCl.  The stronger the cathode and with increasing treatments, you will increase the hydronium concentration relative to the conjugate anion.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.229.84.121 (talk) 01:55, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

text: Bombard pure water with hydrogen ions (slow protons from a plasma similar to the injector at the beginning of a proton accelerator). The water will eventually either form pure hydronium ion solution or H2 gas.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.198.157.140 (talk) 18:16, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pure Hydronium? 

message: Can somebody please add details about the bond length and bond angles of the ion in the molecule picture?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chemfreak20 (talk • contribs) 12:33, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture of Hydronium Ion 

message: Who are Zundel cations (mentioned in the article) named after? If I just type "Zundel" into the search box, it takes me to an article about a neo-Nazi. I'm assuming he's not the same guy that discovered Zundel cations, but you never know.
It would be useful to clarify exactly who the eponymous Zundel is, and maybe provide a link to the article about him on WP, if one exists (if not, then one should probably be created since he's definitely notable enough to have one, if he had the H5O2+ cation named after him). Stonemason89 (talk) 18:24, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It is named after Georg Zundel. There is an article about him in the German Wikipedia (de:Georg Zundel). --Itub (talk) 19:29, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Zundel Cations 

message: :Declined, per WP:SNOW. --Rifleman 82 (talk) 05:04, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Note that the 1999 Hodges and Stone paper defines hydronium–water clusters as "H3O+... (H2O)n clusters" and that they are modeling the interaction between hydronium and a water cluster and not a proton and a water cluster. For more recent papers limited to ACS Journals with hydronium in the title, there are 76 hits between 1956 and 2008. The use of hydronium in these works appears to support the consensus here. Google Scholar reveals additional examples (>600 in the past year). --Kkmurray (talk) 16:11, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Hydrogen ion has recently been added to the "see also" of hydronium. It gives a good summary of the various uses and defines hydron as a proton, deuteron or triton, i.e. H+ irrespective of the isotope. --Bduke  (Discussion) 22:53, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move - January 2009

message: *Oppose this would violate the meaning in every introductory chemistry text I've ever seen. H3O+(aq) is the normal meaning of "hydronium", your suggestion is not. 76.66.198.171 (talk) 22:28, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Note that the 1999 Hodges and Stone paper defines hydronium–water clusters as "H3O+... (H2O)n clusters" and that they are modeling the interaction between hydronium and a water cluster and not a proton and a water cluster. For more recent papers limited to ACS Journals with hydronium in the title, there are 76 hits between 1956 and 2008. The use of hydronium in these works appears to support the consensus here. Google Scholar reveals additional examples (>600 in the past year). --Kkmurray (talk) 16:11, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Hydrogen ion has recently been added to the "see also" of hydronium. It gives a good summary of the various uses and defines hydron as a proton, deuteron or triton, i.e. H+ irrespective of the isotope. --Bduke  (Discussion) 22:53, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: The page for Acid–base reaction states that IUPAC is depreciating other terms in favor of "hydronium", and the hydronium page states that IUPAC prefers hydroxonium. It is unlikely that these are both correct, anyone have a firm reference on this? Daviga1 (talk) 04:52, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Hydroxonium/Hydronium and IUPAC

message: Is it possible to create a salt of hydronium, or will any attempt just decompose into an acid and water? Secondly, since water has two free electron pairs, is there any evidence for H4O2+?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.178.12.19 (talk) 02:14, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: 1) yes, see Hydronium#Solid_hydronium_salts. 2) yes, see J. Am. Chem. Soc., 1986, 108 (5), pp 1032–1035, Chem Phys Lett, 140 (6) pp.579-581 and a handful other articles. --Cubbi (talk) 02:26, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thank you! All of you are really helpful for these little ivory-tower curiosities. 72.178.12.19 (talk) 02:30, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  The doi's are 10.1021/ja00265a031 and 10.1016/0009-2614(87)80490-6 respectively. Double sharp (talk) 14:25, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Salts and Hydro"di"um 

message: Would it possible for a bond to form between an O and an O+, and then a hydrogen and the O and two hydrogen and the O+?
Like this:
H
  > O+ - O - H
H
A sort of hydronium-peroxide?
80.101.212.102 (talk) 12:22, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It's very possible. See Hydrogen_peroxide#Alkalinity.—Tetracube (talk) 16:00, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow! That's great. Thanks! 80.101.212.102 (talk) 20:25, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  H3O2? 

message: The pH given is 7.0 - should it not be stated that this varies with temperature, and it can still be neutral with a pH of 3, for example? Smaug123 (talk) 23:43, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  pH 

message: Is the diameter of this ion determined by some method?--188.26.22.131 (talk) 15:57, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Diameter 

message: This needs to be fixed: "In pure water, there is an equal number of hydroxide and hydronium ions so it has a neutral pH of 7." 
That is confusing, and arguably incorrect. It is my understanding that pH = 7 means there are 10e-7 hydrogen cations per liter, not that there are equal numbers of anions and cations. That happens to be the case, but only because the reaction creating the ions is in equilibrium. Someone more knowledgeable than I should fix it.
Semantics. A number cannot be equal. Better is "there are equal numbers of hydroxide and hydronium ions." 75.36.151.35 (talk) 21:33, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  pH again 

message: I was wondering about the following sentence in the article which I think is important
but which has no reference:
"Unlike hydronium in neutral solutions that result from water's
autodissociation, hydronium ions in acidic solutions are long-lasting and
concentrated, in proportion to the strength of the dissolved acid."
I wonder if  I can get more information/references on this particular point.
----  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.77.4.129 (talk) 14:04, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hydronium structure/lifetime in neutral water and in a strong acid 

message: Deuterated hydronium ions - detection by mass spectrometry : JCP--188.27.144.144 (talk) 09:32, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Also this: .  --Kkmurray (talk) 02:02, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Isotopic effects 

message: In the article on pH, the pH is defined to be the logarithm of a dimensionless constant, the activity of hydronium, but in this article, it is asserted that a pH of 7 corresponds to a negative logarithm of ten to the minus seventh moles per liter. So which is it? To find the pH, to we take the log of hydronium's molarity, or its activity? Rwflammang (talk) 20:40, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Here is IUPAC:  --Kkmurray (talk) 01:26, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  pH again 

message: Substituted at 18:34, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: Greetings wikipedians,
as I have written about the pKa of Hydronium in the German wikipedia (where the consensus is that pKa=0 is correct), I would like to write here also. The value of pKa = -1.74 is only possible to arrive at, if you make a distinction between H2O(l), the solvent, on one hand and "H2O(aq)", or "water in aqueous solution" as the conjugate base on the other hand. In that case, different activities of the H2O molecule appear in numerator and denominator, giving the value 55 or -1.74. Thermodynamically, of course, a construction like "H2O(aq)" is invalid, because the chemical potential of H2O is going to be the same as reactant and as product. That is, you *could* define H2O(aq) to be your standard state for H2O, but then again it would need to appear on both sides of the equation, yielding pKa = 0 no matter how you slice it. 
It would be nice if someone versed in the literature (I'm not a chemist, 'only' a thermodynamics guy) could dig up a source that says something to this effect, and add a paragraph about it to the article.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.60.196.82 (talk) 15:08, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  pKa = 0 

message: What is the name of this ion for deuterium? Deuterated hydronium or deuteronium?--5.15.48.193 (talk) 14:56, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name for isotopes 

message: I think that some values for the diffusivity of this ion should be mentioned in article, including the case of the deuterated ion.--5.15.48.193 (talk) 15:00, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Diffusivity values