Talk:La raza cósmica

message: Is anyone interested in creating an article about the virulently racist ethnic separatist/supremacist "National Council of La Raza" ("The Race")? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.88.88.155 (talk • contribs)  
*Nobody's interested in arguing with a liar who makes baseless claims. Sounds like you're the one with racist/generalizing attitudes.--Bourbon King 21:30, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Antonio Boy and Girl Toy Martin''
***Thanks for your honest opinion, but I think the above anonymous commentators don't deserve an answer to a baseless question that is filled with racist conjecture. I worked with La Raza in L.A. for a few fundraisers and they're no more different than any other cultural activity group.--Bourbon King 21:29, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Any reason why the top commentator's afraid to reveal themselves?

message: Since I'm a good guy (TM) I'm opening this to discussion prior to removal. "All the people of the Iberian Peninsula, including Arabs and Spaniards" is nonsensical to the extreme by itself, let alone concerning this "La Raza" thing. I'm not going to say much more since I find it so ridiculous that I'm expecting someone else to explain it to me. As an extra note, refering Iberia in this context is highly misleading since it's a specifically spanish word that reflects a spanish legacy. Fred --195.245.185.32 15:39, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Dear Fred, I'm not quite sure what you're asking, but perhaps you don't realize that the Iberian control was under the control of Muslims for about 700 years (see Convivencia). During that time, the culture and population was infused with Arabic and Moorish blood and customs. So Vasconcelos includes this racial mixing that occurred in Spain prior to the conquest of the Americas as part of the concoction that created "La Raza Cósmica". The essay is available in English translation, and I recommend that you read it (it is fairly brief) for a better understanding.--Rockero 23:11, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Dear Rockero, I'm quite knowledgable on the historical and genetical situation in Iberia, and let me just say that the theory of vast moorish influence has been disproved by both genetic and an impartial historical analysis. I can't remember a single moorish custom that made it's way into the Peninsula, and the "Moorish blood" is more or less a fabrication without a basis in reality, which is actually more gruesome sometimes than one would like to admit. I might not be fluent in Vansconcelos' theories though, so I could have misunderstood his particular view that is being reflected in the article with an endorsement or historical reality. I didn't especially see the need for you to classify the change as vandalism though, since it was both mentioned in this talk page and in the change description. As for the historical reality, a quick read of Spanish people mentions a possbile minor genetic contribution in Andalusia, but even this is nowadays not entirely correct: the similarities between parts of Iberia and some North African communities are actually not directly related to the Muslim invasion but to Upper Paleolhitic common origin of the non-Arab europid populations. Since now I see that the article is describing a specific literary view by a specific authot all this is more or less moot. I would perhaps suggest to restrucure the paragraphs slightly to indicate that the topic at hand is Vasconcelos' concept and not an historical reality; I don't know a single spaniard that would think of considering Arabs as an Iberian "racial identity", which makes this concept particular to SOuth America in construction and ideals. Regards, Fred --89.26.164.161 03:26, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Oh, and a needed clarification: the above is not meant to imply that Arabs ar good or bad, or that "La Raza" is good or bad. Furthermore, one important aspect of my edit was lost: the difference in meaning for the term according with the country. The Spanish Wikipedia article actually mentions this, since in Mexico the definition that you use - the Vasconcelos' one - is more widely known, whereas in other Spanish-speaking american countries the term doesn't have the some meaning and more or less refers to a cultural connection to the Spanish colonial past... in this it could even be argued that the term is the opposite of "indigenous", especially given the specific meaning of the term is viewed in the "limpieza de sangre" colonial angle. Regards, Fred --89.26.147.81 14:40, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Including Arabs and Spanish people ??? 

message: The readers of this article should be informed, first and foremost, of Vasconselos' work and afterwords about how the term is used by many. I don't mean any disrespect to others in the modifications I have made.Rodrgz 13:31, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Modifications 

message: We need to integrate some material about Octavio Paz and El laberinto de la soledad ('The Labyrinth of Solitude') which developed  ideas further, beyond Vasconcellos.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  17:04, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Octavio Paz 

message: The following material was removed from the article, for having a  on it for too long. However, it's probably all correct. Someone with some appropriate works (or nearby university library) can probably source and restore this:
 — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  13:13, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Terminology