Talk:Appam

message: Can anyone confirm this? I am a keralite & I have never seen appam as prasadam.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by S pradeep (talk • contribs) 12:35, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Appam As Prasadam in Temples

message: I think appam is distinct, maybe similar to the Hoppers. But Ive never seen Hoppers
so cant say much here. However the many variants of  Appam in South India qualify it 
for a separate article. --பராசக்தி 03:15, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge 

message: The string hopper bit overlaps with both putu mayam and idiyappam and should probably be shifted to the best name (idiyappam?). Jpatokal 07:51, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Putu mayam 

message: This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as stub, and the rating on other projects was brought up to Stub class. BetacommandBot 17:18, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject class rating

message: Where does the term "hoppers" come from? Badagnani (talk) 22:35, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Do Indians call them "appam" or "hoppers"?  Shouldn't this page use the terms that are used by the people who eat this food? Hanacy (talk) 06:05, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't have any reliable sources to quote here, so this can't go into the article, but, speaking from personal experience, the name "hoppers" mostly comes from Sri Lanka, while in South India they are called "Appams". If anyone shows me (in a reliable way) that the names are actually the other way around, I will gladly accept correction. UnbiasedBrigade (talk) 08:49, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Hoppers" 

message: I added this to the list of variations.  I'm not sure which name is the most correct, so I used all of them. Hanacy (talk) 06:03, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  INRI/indri/pesaha appam 

message: An IP is regularly vandalizing the article. K T Achaya only says that the dish is known in Tamil country in the first century. Please understand that Jews and Nasranis were present in the ancient Tamil country since first century and that is the reason for origin of Appam. K T Achaya also agrees to the same. http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2010-04-10/food-reviews/28133133_1_malayali-syrian-christians-rice Now stop reverting.PalakkappillyAchayan 18:28, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: In which book does K.T.Achaya agrees that Appam was created by Indian Jewish/Nasrani community? Could you please provide me with reference? Did you even read K.T.Achaya's Wikipedia page or the referenced content on Google books? Due to his reputation, posters for both Dosa and Idli have accepted his book for respective food history. I can also give you a link to Gil Mark's book on Google books (especially for Appam). I just do not see any mention about Jewish ORIGIN of Appam in there. In fact, he specifically says in the foreword/introduction that Jewish food is adapted from their locales/new homelands to suit Jewish dietary laws. I see no basis to use it as a reference to associate ORIGIN of Appam to any particular community. The adamant insistence on associating this food to one particular community is corrosive/insensitive/biased and definitely not Neutral.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by MariaJeyaraj (talk • contribs) 19:52, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  Gil Marks' "Encyclopedia of Jewish Food" mentions the ORIGIN of Appam simply as India. Similarly he also mentions the origins of food dishes like Hummus and Falafel as Egypt and Near East respectively. These are well known middle eastern dishes that have also been adapted by local Jewish communities. Besides, they are also quite popular in Israel as well. Still, look at their Wikipedia pages and see how neutral their representations are. Compare that and see how biased the efforts here are by few people trying to pin anything and everything associated with Appam to a small community by twisting facts.MariaJeyaraj (talk) 01:53, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

text: I know that K T Achaya says that this dish is KNOWN in Tamil country in the first century. That is exactly the reason I provided the link under History section and not claim ORIGIN. Often in history there is no clear way of pinpointing origin to a particular time/person/community. It is often driven based on oldest available historical record such as stone carvings/literary work. Rice was domesticated in Far East Asia. It was either subsequently adapted or was domesticated separately in India by the time of Indus Valley civilization, much before Middle east. So, any rice based dish that was well established by 1st century AD (as told by K T Achaya) has more likelihood of having been originated in India. Moreover, when you claim outright ORIGIN to a particular community, where is the historical proof? (Gil Mark's book definitely IS NOT one). A book from a historian with corroborating historical evidence would be nice.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by MariaJeyaraj (talk • contribs) 20:24, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

text: I have also added comments to your talk page. I expect a meaningful reply here with proper reasoning around why you are so insistent on associating this food outright to Nasranis and what basis you have for that. Kindly realize that I am talking about Appam as a whole and not any particular variant. All my edits were very neutral and tried to faithfully categorize information around various sections. In fact, you have callously deleted valuable information that was added by folks by other region/country (Coorgi, Orissa, SriLanka and Burma etc.) and trying to saturate/monopolize this page with information that only relates and associates this food to one particular community (without much basis on facts).MariaJeyaraj (talk) 21:12, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

text: BTW, No where in the book of "Encyclopedia of Jewish Food" by Gil Marks has any reference of words Nasrani or Syrian Christian. Then why are you even using it as a reference for claiming Nasranis as originators of this food? I understand that some of the Jews from Kerala might have converted into Syrian Christians, but that doesn't in anyway make Jewish contribution to be Nasrani contribution as well!! It is not some sort of inheritance that automatically flows to the successor, definitely not when there is still a Jewish community around. Never mind the fact that Gil Marks' book DOES NOT even say/claim that Appam was of Jewish origin. Going by the same logic, can Christians from Kanyakumari simply claim that they built the Hindu temples there?MariaJeyaraj (talk) 02:49, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Origin

message: This article as of now states that Appam is a "fermented bread made with rice batter and coconut milk" and it adds that it "looks like a pancake". However, Pancake would be the most logical food type that can be associated it. It is made from batter, not dough and is poured and spread out on to a griddle or shallow pan. So, I suggest the main section be edited to categorize Appam as a Pancake instead of bread. I solicit replies and opinions on this proposed edit from folks that are watching this page. Thanks. MariaJeyaraj (talk) 06:30, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Appam - Type of food is incorrect 

message: Right now, information about a minor variant of Appam named "Kallappam" is shown under the main subject even though there is a dedicated section just for listing out the variants along with their description. So, I propose moving "Kallappam" related information from main section and placed under the "Variations" section to make the overall article more organized. I also intend to make a slight change in the description to include Malayalam as well as Tamil to associate the meaning for Toddy/Kallu in order to make this article neutral as per Wikipedia policies. As far as I know, Kallappam is a very minor variant (almost not a variant), which is more of a class based thing. While most of urban middle class and upper middle class folks treat Toddy/Kallu as taboo and will not add it to Appam batter to help with fermentation, working class folks have never had any qualms about it. People who make Appams commercially or on large scale also use it for consistent fermentation, but do not tend to disclose it. As Kallappam is already added to the article, I just want to move it under the variant section so that the information is not lost. Request questions, suggestions, comments and feedback on this proposed change from article watchers.MariaJeyaraj (talk) 16:13, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Appam - Information on Kallappam should be moved under Variations section from main text 

message: I propose renaming "Origin" section to "History". When it comes to food, often there is no clear way of pinpointing origin to a particular time/place/group/community/individual. It is mostly driven based on oldest available historical record such as stone carvings/remains/literary work etc. Article on "Idli" seems to have a "History" section instead of "Origin". I say we be consistent and do the same rename here as well. Moreover, it will also be less contentious and allows folks to add more proper/authentic citations down the line. Please share your suggestions. Thanks.MariaJeyaraj (talk) 21:32, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rename "Origin" section to "History" 

message: Added the anglicized name "Hopper" for Appam, which is widely used in Sri Lanka, where Appam is a very popular food (in fact it seems to be more popular there than in India).  — Preceding unsigned comment added by MariaJeyaraj (talk • contribs) 20:08, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added anglicized name for Appam. 

message: Added new variant Accappam. Denoted it as signature Syrian Christian appams. Linked TOI article that attributes info to K.T.Achaya.
Updated Neyappam to denote it as signature Syrian Christian appams as well. Added link to the same TOI article.
These were lost in edit wars. Hope they survive the wrath of future vandals/edit ninjas.
MariaJeyaraj (talk) 03:02, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Acchappam / Neyappam 

message: Giving below are my conclusions after going through this book on Google books.
* This book of Gil Marks DOES NOT even say/claim that Appam was of Jewish origin. It simply mentions Origin of Appam as India.
* In the foreword/introduction, he has mentioned that Jewish food could well have been adapted by Jews from their locales/new homelands to suit Jewish dietary laws.
* NOWHERE in this book there is mention of  "Saint Thomas Christians" or "Syrian Christians" or "Nasranis" (including the page devoted for Appam). Any extrapolation to link this book to those communities is simply an assumption. 
So, any statement in this article that is using this book as citation/reference to any "information" connected to Nasranis/Syrian Christians is factually incorrect and hence against the policy of Wikipedia (WP:RS - Content Matters - "Sources should directly support the information as it is presented in an article.")MariaJeyaraj (talk) 21:40, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Encyclopedia of Jewish foods" by Gil Marks - Used to cite wrong information 

message: I added my comments to this Talk page about Gil Marks' "Encyclopedia of Jewish Foods" few days back. This book doesn't claim to be a historical source and all the information it has about origins have nothing to do with Appam being a Jewish food. In order for it to quoted under history, it has to have some relevant historical information showing Appam's antiquity as Jewish food or should have answers for questions such as "when" or "how long" etc. That is the reason why I want it added under "Other Information" section. Moreover, if people of every distinct caste/sub-caste/creed and religion want to add their own information, I feel it should be under "Other Information". Main section should only have the essential high level information and "History" should show only apt information of historical value.MariaJeyaraj (talk) 18:30, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Appam - Main and History section 

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