Talk:Amethyst

message: Vandals remark deleted.
Adrian Pingstone 09:34, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Should this really be here, and if it should, should some of the remarks be backed up or justified?
The remark that soldiers carried amethyst in their swords, for example, does not specify which soldiers, where, or what evidence there is. Are these pre-christian Romans or eighteenth century Japanese soldiers?
And who says all these things? Is there any documentation?
I'm not at all sure this section should be published as it is. Brentford 10:37, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: A check of the article history shows that it was probably part of the 1911 text dump back in 2002. It is in need of either good referencing and/or a drastic clean-up. Simple deletion of the section would probably irritate some. -Vsmith 12:59, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Folklore 

message: The information about the colour of the amethyst comes from 1911 Encyclopædia Britannica, as it can be seen on  but the theory about being attributed to the presence of manganese or being of "organic source" is outdated. I am not a chemist and my English is poor, so I will not modify the article myself. From what I know, the colour of the amethyst appears when some quartz is at proximity of uranium (in the ground): the radiations make some electrons to quit the impurity aluminium atoms, and create one colour centre. There are maybe other colour centres than those around aluminium. I hope someone can verify and update the article. Alkarex 17:55, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Bibliography: Quartz Crystals and Their Colors 10.1002/anie.197302831 «The many colors found in quartz crystals are always due to the presence of impurity atoms...» and also on Google Scholar. Alkarex 23:32, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Here is another article attributing the color of amethyst to color centers -- amethyst link. I am trying to write articles on color centers, and may be able to find a more authoritative description to add at some point. Zolot 00:01, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Physically, natural irradiation comes from uranium ores which give microns of penetration depth and spatially inhomogeneous flux (dose might be Ok because of long residence time). My wild guess is that irradiation (i) produces color centers and (ii) converts them to an appropriate charge state - this all is needed to explain why the color is lost by heating and restored by re-irradiation , and (iii) is one, but not a unique source of amethyst color. However, I don't know this material and thus this is just a guess. Materialscientist (talk) 10:48, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I gave a year ago a valid ref coming from Material Research, 2009, vol 12 n°3, http://www.scielo.br/pdf/mr/v12n3/v12n3a11.pdf which explained very well HOW irradiation ended up by having Fe3+ displaced in an unusual manner in the crystal lattice of amethyst. this ref disappeared and now we have a ridiculous ref from...1972 because someone thinks his old dusty books are always rught and that the colour is just from "ferric impurities". That's stupid. It's much more complex than that: Michael O'Donoghue in his 2006 edition of his 900 page book "Gems" , (perhaps the best overall ref for stones for clear understanding , as a source for wikipedia rock and gem articles) , says it's irradiation and trivalent iron as well, whether they're synthetic or natural (page 301, "colour" ). I'm sorry but a 2006 and 2009 ref from Materials Research and the book Gems are much more valid than obscure and hypothetical refs from 1972 and 1997! The article in materials research says that (on pages 318 and 319) Fe3+ substitutes  for silicon through irradiation : [FeSiO4/M+]0 → [FeSiO4/h+]0 + M+ + e     then it is clearly said that "Colorless samples of natural quartz that become amethyst and prasiolite after irradiation have infrared spectra at room temperature with a broad band at around 3441 cm–1 and a band at 3585 cm–1." and on page 319 "The color of amethysts and prasiolites are the result of the formation of [AlSiO4/h+]0 and [FeSiO4/h+]0 centers formed by the exposure to ionizing irradiation and the influence of lattice distortions caused by the iron as a substitute for silicon and a high content of trace elements of large ionic radius like potassium."  O'Donoghue says in "Gems", 2006, that iron is INVOLVED in the amethyst colour but is not sole responsible for the violet toned color, citing a study by Nassau (2000) , himself citing Rossman in Heaney and al (1994). He specifically explains that Fe3+  substitutes AFTER irradiation ( page 302 "On irradiation an [FeO4]4- colour centre absorbs light to produce the amethyst colour" ) and that transition elements can give the amethyst colour EVEN IF THE IRON CONCENTRATION IS LOW ( same page "The strong colour of amethyst arises even when the iron concentrations are low, as the transitions are allowed ones in this case" ), mimicking the substitution between iron and silicon. In this sense, O'Donoghue and Materials Research conclude both that irradiation and the presence of trace elements permit the substitution of trivalent iron and/or transition element with silicon . It is said in O'Donoghue's book that amethyst is dichroic in bluish violet and reddish violet, that ametrine can be obtained from amethyst naturally and synthetically, that amethyst is susceptible to lose it's deep violet color if overexposed to (sun)light and can be synthetically re-colored by irradiation. The exact ref for Rossman in Heaney et al (1994) as cited by O'Donoghue is not found in the amethyst article, nevertheless I found it: Heaney et al, 1994 : "Silica: physical behavior, geochemistry, and materials applications" in  Reviews in Mineralogy v. 29 . 82.240.163.245 (talk) 04:16, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Although the Materials Research paper is from 2009 it focuses more on the subsitution of iron for silicon in the presence of certain trace elements, but O'Donoghue's 2006 book is more precise since it cites many recent studies and stresses the part about transition elements which impart a deep rich  amethystine colour even when the iron is not in sufficient concentration to do so by itself.I thus mentioned both the trace elements and the transition elements in the wikipedia article, along with the obligatory irradiation,-irradiation- being a point on which both sources (with extensive bibliography ) insist upon for the substitutions to take place. Here is a link on googlebooks to have a (legal) peek at "Gems,their sources, descriptions and identification" sixth edition,by Micheal O'Donoghue , 2006, Butterworth-Heinemann: http://books.google.fr/books?id=ZwcM5H-wHNoC&printsec=frontcover&hl=fr&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false . 82.240.163.245 (talk) 13:42, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Outdated information about colour 

message: I'm a newbie here; I could see how to look at the history but I couldn't find any way to revert to the previous good version of the page.
:Thanks for getting my attention, the vandalism has been reverted now. Vsmith 19:38, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  This page was vandalized 

message: Introduced a notes section, as it seemed appropriate for the two references I added. --Olneya 20:11, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added some chemistry info 

message: Are there references for the astrology sources? I'm interested why a stone would have 4 of the 12 signs represented and where the contributor received that information. Perhaps it could be qualified somehow, but I wouldn't begin to know how without the sources. --MysticFedora (talk) 03:21, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Astrology 

message: I read somewhere that one explanation suggested for the belief that amethyst drinking vessels protected the drinker from intoxication, is that the colour of the amethyst causes water to look somewhat like wine. However, I am having trouble locating the source (so that it can be properly cited) and I am also wondering if this belongs in the article?
Bbi5291 (talk) 00:16, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Non-drunknenness belief 

message: I've been trying to find a source on the Amethystos myth for a while (theoi.com is yielding nothing). The source given on this Wikipedia page just leads to one of many gemstone websites which lists the myth, but no ancient source. Does anyone know of one so we can list it? Thanks! -- 205.200.0.105 (talk) 15:46, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source on Amethystos myth 

message: Is the best grade Deep Siberian or Deep Russian as both are stated as being the best?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 20.133.0.13 (talk) 14:31, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Best grade 

message: I wonder if amethyst is produced by irradiation, which means vicinity to radioactive materials, would it possible that it may contain traces of them? So is it safe to use amethyst in jewelry? I would really appreciate if someone could offer some data on this.  
xin_jl (talk) 13:44, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: radiation

message: Substituted at 07:35, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: I want to open a discussion on this line in the History section: "... amethyst has different meanings in Feng Shui and focuses on increasing wealth. In ancient China, it was also used as a powerful tool to remove negative energies and drive away the hazards of daily life."
I'm a little skeptical of the source cited, which makes several claims about the meaning of amethyst, but doesn't seem to back up any of them with sources of its own. The website also might be self-published by crystal enthusiasts.
Radioactivated (talk) 16:07, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm fine with simply removing the line. Even if it was properlly sourced, it belongs under the cultural meanings section, not the history section. But we'd need a reliable source indicating that this Feng Shui usage is notable. --Kent G. Budge (talk) 16:12, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Meaning of amethyst in cultures 

message: The article mentions what is supposedly the "largest amethyst geode in the world". I have seen sources report the sale of geodes more than 10x the weight.
I havent made an edit before or read any community guidelines, so i figured id drop a note and someone else can fix it. ChipmunkMooshroom (talk) 02:00, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Honestly after looking for a source i would be willing to site, i guess a recommendation for an edit would be to say "largest geode as of 2007" instead of to date ChipmunkMooshroom (talk) 02:11, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inforrect information