Talk:Grey Wolves (organization)/Archive 1

message: we know that there are millions who call themselves greywolves in Turkey if so are u accusing millions of turks of being terrosrists? I think this title "terrorist" must be deleted.
the term "bozkurtlar" is not a widely used term to designate any legal or illegal organization in Turkey, and most of the accusations in the text (like acting of some group as paramilitaries in the southeast) are nothing but hearsay. could the author(s) give their sources? it is clear that current ones are by no means reliable, any news by any reputable agency is wellcome. and i think it is obvious that authors are trying to impose their POV. i even doubt whether this article should exist.128.103.11.241 20:33, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Previous Comments 

message: The references are a good start, but how many different points of view are there on this group that could still be added. Ansell 01:23, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: User Ruzgar, "stupid" is not a sufficient argument for your claims. Deleting the pages edited by other users with no positive contribution, especially those with references, is considered as vandalism. Please, reveal your arguments or your allegations of POV with references. For example, please cite a source supporting one of your claims above, e. g. MHP was founded by Ziya Gökalp. Behemoth 04:55, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Ruzgar, although we clearly do not agree, this does not mean we can't talk together. But you should'nt remove full sentences and sources, this is considered vandalism. If you feel a sentence is not proved and justified by a source, please add a  template. Regards, Tazmaniacs 01:32, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Concerns about POV

message: In this edit, Ruzgar essentially reduced the article from having 18 references to 4. Ruzgar, you are welcome to add  tags to things that need sources, but please don't censor things that are already backed up by references. Thank you. —Khoikhoi 01:21, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Additionally, if you (or anyone) disputes a source currently in use in the article, here is the place to bring it up. Revert wars don't get anyone anywhere. --InShaneee 01:58, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  It's not ok to delete sourced material 

message: How can a facist organization be compared to pan arabism?? On what basis?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.200.173.27  (talk • contribs) 07:52, 16 July 2007
:On the basis that the Grey Wolves are loyal supporters of pan-Turkism, a similarly constructed pan-ethnic philosophy. This does not nessesitae that all pan-ethnic ideologies promote facism, or that Pan-arabism has coresponding groups. The Myotis 21:06, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments

message: Can you please explain your additions? --Vonones 19:28, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Pov

message: It's so irrelevant. It has nothing to do with the Grey Wolves themselves; most Turks would rally against recognition, anyway. As such I'll be removing the paragraph. Runningfridgesrule (talk) 15:30, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Saying it is irrelevant does not make it irrelevant. Please give an actual argument with details. After all, a group as small as the Grey Wolves gains significance through its actions, and it does not make sense to take away information on one of the activities it has become best-known for. The Myotis (talk) 00:07, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Armenian Genocide paragraph

message: The last line of the first paragraph reads:  " Khitij Prabha of the Indian Institute for Defense Studies and Analyses (IDSA) and the Republic of Kazakhstan, where it is officially banned.[3]"  Does anyone have any idea what this means?  Better yet, would its author please rewrite it so that it actually says whatever it's actually supposed to mean?  Thanks.
69.141.117.110 (talk) 19:46, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: it used to say "such and such considers the grey wolves a terrorist organization", but it got mangled by someone else. --Adoniscik(t, c) 19:54, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grey Wolves 

message: This article is full of mistakes and information wrongs starting from the naming to the end. Mostly biased from a political look. The sources are the same kind,too and also insufficient.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.106.235.255 (talk) 23:45, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Full of Information mistakes and Biased 

message: Do we have any photos of this group, in uniforms or anything? Or any logo or anything?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.248.84.32 (talk) 11:20, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Logo/photos? 

message: Although they use some of the sayings in this text, Şehitler Ölmez, Vatan Bölünmez! (Martyrs don't die, Undividable Fatherland!) and Her Türk asker doğar! (Every Turk is born as a soldier.) are not grat wolf slogans, they are used by the army to drill soldiers [Her Türk asker doğar! (Every Turk is born as a soldier.)] and Turkish citizens who protested against PKK rebels killing Turkish soldiers, Respectfully--85.106.142.136 (talk) 15:35, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong 

message: This article has a huge problem. First of all, although gray wolves and ülkücüler are extreme about nationalism, they are not terrorists although some of their members may comitted terrorist actions. Besides there is a section which tells the known members of gray wolves which doesn't show any proof for these members despite the first one. If any proof with a valid reference can't be found, that part should be removed.--Lonewolf94 (talk) 16:07, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, that problem is solved but the victims section doesn't show any reference that the assasins were grey wolves. so I am removing that section.--Lonewolf94 (talk) 14:19, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, the european grey wolves are not cited and needs citation for a long time, so I am removing that too.--Lonewolf94 (talk) 14:22, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: In fact I should and will remove everything that needs citation or not cited.--Lonewolf94 (talk) 14:29, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Problem 

message: If anyone is interested there was a new leak posted about Grey Wolves on 4/24/11 http://wikileaks.ch/cable/2003/10/03ANKARA6535.html --Mark Barsky2 (talk) 21:28, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikileaks 

message: The sources above which accuse the Grey Wolves of being a terrorist organisation can not be accessed. Can someone please provide me links to these sources, so I can analyse them. If not I will have to remove the phrase. Regards, Tugrulirmak (talk) 10:46, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources 2,4,5  

message: It appears that someone is in a big hurry to remove information(Cyprus) and the corresponding reference without taking any time to check said reference.
From Irish Times:
Tuesday 27 August 1996 €European court may hear Cyprus murder case(…)nationalist mainland Turkish "Grey Wolves" movement (founded in the 1950s by a Turkish Cypriot, Mr Alparslan Turkesh). And then there were the Turkish Cypriot police. Furthermore, in the view of Supt Cosgrave (…)By MICHAEL JANSEN - The Irish Times - Ireland
Thursday 15 August 1996 €Violence erupts at funeral of Greek Cypriot(…)of Mr Tassos Isaac, a 24 year old Greek Cypriot beaten to death on Sunday by Turkish Cypriot or Turkish militiamen, allegedly from the ultranationalist "Grey Wolves" movement, during clashes provoked (…)By MICHAEL JANSEN - The Irish Times - World
Tuesday 13 August 1996 €Greek and Turkish Cypriots stunned by casualty toll after biker protest(…)groups and were set upon by Turkish and Turkish Cypriot militants from the ultra nationalist "Grey Wolves" and "Hearth" movements, who were armed with guns, staves, clubs, stones and iron bars. According (…)By MICHAEL JANSEN - The Irish Times - World
"U.N. reports confirm that much of the violence appears to have been carried out by members of extremist groups, including the notorious Gray Wolves. The Turkish attackers seemed to be in accordance with a plan "to hit as many [Greek Cypriots] as possible," a senior U.N. official in Cyprus, Matt Cosgrave, told the Irish Times (August 27)."
Which verifies the source from the Embassy of Cyprus, which was deemed "unreliable". 
Also, the concern over references 4 and 5 can be easily verified via google books. --Kansas Bear (talk) 03:52, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The UN report can be found on the Embassy of Cyprus source. Please, post the Cyprus section here along with the "attempting to pull down the Turkish flag" addition. That way we can both decide on the section's wording. --Kansas Bear (talk) 17:47, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

text: After waiting 8 days, I am re-adding the Cyprus section. --Kansas Bear (talk) 21:42, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Big Hurry to remove information and sources 

message: There was a post-WWII group of ex-Nazis "with a similar name" - who were they? Jackiespeel (talk) 15:13, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Group name question

message: "Ocak" has been translated in this article as "forge," which does not feel quite correct. The Turkish Linguistic Association (Turkish speaking contributers, see this link: http://www.tdk.gov.tr/TR/sozbul.ASPX?F6E10F8892433CFFAAF6AA849816B2EF05A79F75456518CA&Kelime=aya%u011f%u0131n%u0131+kayd%u0131rmak) lists eleven different entries for the meaning of "ocak," and probably just as many different English translations are possible. In the context of the phrase "Ülkü Ocağı," it would be more appropriate to translate it in a way that would imply a meaning similar to "place of gathering." The word "guild" comes to mind... Any thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bilge Han  (talk • contribs) 09:10, 21 July 2007
I agree that the translation of 'ocak' to 'forge' is rather horrible. The word 'hearth' comes to mind both in terms of also having a folk-cultural origin and as it carries an analogue to 'ocak' in being both the sustenance of a household and the gathering place of a family. If no objections arise I very strongly suggest its use. - silent — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.167.236.182  (talk • contribs) 18:00, 1 May 2008
: Hearth is good. "Hearths of idealism", then? --Adoniscik(t, c) 04:15, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Mistranslation: "Ocak"

message: An RfC: Which descriptor, if any, can be added in front of Southern Poverty Law Center when referenced in other articles? has been posted at the Southern Poverty Law Center talk page. Your participation is welcomed. – MrX 16:45, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  RfC 

message: The article suggests that the organization is the youth wing of the National Democratic Party. I think it is Nationalist Movement Party of Turkey. A party called National Democratic Party does not exist in Turkey. There is a party called Nationalist Democracy Party in the history of Turkey which has no relation with the Grey Wolves. It is probably a mistake made by someone who does not speak Turkish and wrote the sentence without making any research.
Moreover there is not a youth wing called Grey Wolves. The article mainly tries to talk about a group/movement called Idealists or Idealism (Ülkücülük in Turkish) which is a political view rather than a youth wing of a party. The article should be completely revised. - Inspectortr (talk) 22:27, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  National Democratic Party 

message: I removed from the article the claim that Ülkü Ocakları was the "youth branch" of the Nationalist Movement Party. As you may see here, in this news report titled "We are not NPM's youth branch" from Gazete2023 the Samsun branch President of the Ülkü Ocakları says that they are not and do not like ("we are disturbed") to be taken as the NMP's youth branch. --E4024 (talk) 18:19, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Youth branch of NMP? 

message: National Movement Party and Ülkü Ocakları are legal organizations not terrorists and this article is highly subjective, even i can say ridiculously senseless. You can't make people terrorist from internet.
Neo-fasists, terrorists, bounded with many crime and assasination hahaha really funny article :)
This text is totally false! Everything is false. This is a text against the Turks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.195.114.17  (talk • contribs) 04:12, 14 February 2007
Indeed! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.101.132.221  (talk • contribs) 01:06, 13 March 2007
This text is only visible part of eisberg.--CrnyBa (talk) 19:00, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Bias

message: 5 attacks by IPs in the last two days, is this not enough ? The vandalizing pro-Grey Wolves IP(s) (only intervening on this article) are (is) all coming from the University of California in Los Angeles: 164.67.214.42 (also active the same day on tr.viki), 164.67.214.175 and 164.67.214.45 . --Pylambert (talk) 06:55, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: How can you blatantly removed referenced information, without discussion or explanation? --Kansas Bear (talk) 17:40, 24 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should'nt this article be semi-protected against IPs ? 

message: I think Neo-fascism should removed  because in their oath they say they are against Communism, fascism, Capitalism, Zionism and all kinds of Imperialism --37.75.14.254 (talk) 11:58, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neo-fascism 

message: I would suggest user:Unknowledge explain why they continue to edit war to remove referenced information from this article.
"Neo-Fascist", referenced by;
*Sullivan, Colleen (2011). "Grey Wolves". In Martin, Gus. The SAGE Encyclopedia of Terrorism (2nd ed.). Sage Publications. pp. 236–7.
*Aslan, Fikret; Bozay, Kemal, eds. (2012). Graue Wölfe heulen wieder: Türkische Faschisten und ihre Vernetzung in Deutschland [Grey wolves howl again: Turkish fascists and their networks in Germany] (in German) (3rd. ed.). Unrast Verlag. .
*Canefe, Nergis; Bora, Tanıl (2004). "Intellectual Roots of Anti-European Sentiments in Turkish Politics: The Case of Radical Turkish Nationalism". In Çarkoğlu, Ali; Rubin, Barry. Turkey and the European Union: Domestic Politics, Economic Integration and International Dynamics. Routledge. p. 125, 129. .
*Cooley, John K. (2002). Unholy Wars: Afghanistan, America and International Terrorism (3rd ed.). London: Pluto Press. p. 195. . "A Turkish Fascist youth group, the "Grey Wolves," was recruited to fight with the Chechens."
"Assassinations, bombings", referenced by;
* Lee, Martin A. (12 April 1998). "Turkish Dirty War Revealed, but Papal Shooting Still Obscured". Los Angeles Times.
Unknowledge does not have a strong understanding of English;
*"These informations do not show the truth", shows that Unknowledge is here to right great wrongs
*"There is no resources.it does not show the truth", same as above.
*"I think this page made by leftist terrorist organizations in Turkey such as dhkp-c, pkk and hdp", blatantly calls other editors that have constructed this article, terrorists!
*"Undid revision 672730812 by Yerevantsi (talk).You are sided. Obey the rules of wikipedia", again making judgments of other editors, so as to continue edit warring
*"No resource.it is sided", yet has removed references and referenced information from the article, 
*"No resource and its absolutely wrong", disruptive editing:see above. --Kansas Bear (talk) 16:54, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit warring by Unknowledge 

message: http://www.lragir.am/index/eng/0/politics/view/34436
....member of the Turkish Ülkü Ocaklari organization, Burak Mishinji, who had left for Syria to fight has been killed by the Syrian national defense forces. According to Demokrathaber website, prior to this departure to Syria, Mishinji had announced that he “was going to cut heads of Armenians and Alevis”. He was killed in a clash between Turkmens of and the National Defense Forces of Syria in Latakia. Mishinji was buried in Istanbul. His funeral was attended by his family, Member of Parliament Meral Aksener of MHP party, as well as others of party leadership. Turkmens were attending too.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.44.157.241 (talk) 20:33, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: In Syria?

message: Grey Wolves aren't a "organization" which this article indicates. They're just centers for Turkish youth. No one can't blame any nationalistic orgazization for every moves their people makes/made. Yes they're helping Turkmens in Iraq and Syria. (maybe even with guns) I can't really express myself in English but you should already get the idea. For exemple a coup d'état in Azerbaijan, it's just irrelevant. Or bombing in Thailand. They don't have the means because it's depended on their members not selling drugs or human trafficking... Even the sources are shady. (the one i looked are all Russian or some other language with Cyrillic) So this article needs to be changed heavly. 
Note: I'm not denying about 1980's because that was real it was a time of chaos.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.5.128.47 (talk) 19:55, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong 

message: This article is so ridiculously wrong, MHP and Ülkü Ocakları are legal organizations in Turkey and EU and they are not fasists, terrorists or racists. In Ülkücü oath they say "against communism, fasism and imperialism". I think person who write this article is really clever and he/she/gay try to make them terrorist on internet and mislead people. In Turkish we have a say "Ananı mı siktiler/Herhalde anasını sikmişler" this saying fits to this persons position. :)— Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.42.252.249 (talk) 21:38, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please dont be silly :) 

message: What is the relevance of this sentence;
*"In 2005 Kaveh Farrokh describes the Grey Wolves as "perhaps the most actively racist pan-Turanian organization in existence today""
Considering Kaveh Farrokh is not an academic historian or political scientist, I do not see how Farrokh's opinion, that of a school counselor, on the Grey Wolves would be relevant. --Kansas Bear (talk) 18:50, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Relevance? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Dear user Beshogur,
You are removing sources and details that are sourced. Also, you added tags that are not appropriate. Source clearly mentions that the group has involved in drug dealing and quote is from the source.Ferakp (talk) 21:49, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: "According to the Armenian newspaper News.am, almost 85% of heroin imported to the Europe came through Turkey." has nothing to do with Grey Wolves article. Check the source. Beshogur (talk) 21:52, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Drug involvement 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: , can you revert your edit please? How does become Grey Wolves active in China while they're inactive in Russia according you? Beshogur (talk) 11:58, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: There are reliable sources which explicitly say they are active in Uyghurstan. None of the sources in the article said they are active in Russia. Simple as that.--Երևանցի talk  12:00, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I never saw any thing about Grey Wolves-affiliated organizations being active in China. Uyghur nationalist organization /=/ Grey Wolves, while the Russian ones are not part of Grey Wolves but Grey Wolves-afilliated. Ok, this can be discussed, why do you removed Ukraine then? Beshogur (talk) 12:11, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  Can you take the time and read Grey_Wolves_(organization)#China_.28Xinjiang.29? There are several sources from authoritative sources which confirm that they operate in China. Again, none of the cited sources said a word about Grey Wolves. If they are in fact active in Tatarstan, for example, why don't you add a reliable source for that claim. As for Ukraine, there are only speculations that Grey Wolves exist in Crimea. And those are largely unconfirmed Russian speculations. --Երևանցի talk  12:15, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Look, Here: Noman Çelebicihan Battalion is a newly formed paramilitary group in Ukraine. If you look at their pictures, they have a flag with three moons, which is the flag of the Nationalist Movement Party, also there is a red gray wolf flag. I'm 100% sure, this group is affiliated with Grey Wolves in Turkey. Beshogur (talk) 12:20, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  Sorry, but that's pure speculation, even if you're 100% convinced. We write articles on Wikipedia using published reliable sources, not personal opinion. Please, please add a sources instead of speculating. I'm sure if they're connected there must be some kind of article on it.--Երևանցի talk  13:14, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  China, Volga Region 

message: Who is the analyst "Ankaralı Jan" who is mentioned in the article? This name means "Jan from Ankara" and it is a synonym. Can't find anything other than a Twitter account in the web. Wikipedia shouldn't use unknown sources like this.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:72:6F15:1500:4807:30DF:53AA:F3DC (talk) 09:25, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Analyst "Ankaralı Jan" 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 04:51, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Grey Wolves (organization). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141207093059/http://www.amnesty.org/es/library/asset/EUR01/001/1997/es/2e96e74b-eab3-11dd-9f63-e5716d3a1485/eur010011997en.html to https://www.amnesty.org/es/library/asset/EUR01/001/1997/es/2e96e74b-eab3-11dd-9f63-e5716d3a1485/eur010011997en.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 13:28, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I noticed the Link 42 does not lead to the article the link states, but more importantly, Link 1 doesn't either.  Link 1 is supporting most of the questionable and controversial material and I can't verify whether the source is credible.
- Mr. Char 3/22/07 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.101.17.53 (talk) 19:01, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Bad Links

message: Grey wolves is not a terorist organization.However it is legal in Turkey as a association and most of their actions and notable attacks in this page are absolutely wrong and biassed.dhkp-c and pkk etc.leftist partisans (terorist organizations) don't like them.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Unknowledge (talk • contribs) 22:23, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: İt is not a terorist organization

message: The Grey Wolves are known and proven supporters of MHP (kind of like a paramilitary wing, even), and now that MHP is a vocal supporter of Erdoğan and AKP, both MHP and The Grey Wolves have transformed their main ideology into Islamism, rather than Turkism, and for that, a substantial proportion of Turkists have stopped voting for or supporting TGW and MHP.
Islamism has always been a part of the ideology of TGW, but it has never been their main ideology, until now. 
I propose to add "Islamism" to the list of TGW ideologies.
You can see on their official website that they are indeed Islamists. 
:Nonsense. Stop your Islamophobia. And please sign your post at the end. Ömer Nasuhi Bilmen (talk) 12:20, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Islamism 

message: Another important organisation of Grey Wolves are the ATIB (Avrupa Türk-İslam Birliği (ATİB), in German: „Union der Türkisch-Islamischen Kulturvereine in Europa“. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avrupa_T%C3%BCrk-%C4%B0slam_Birli%C4%9Fi in Dachverbänden wie Türk Federasyon, ATIB oder ATB https://www.bpb.de/politik/extremismus/rechtsextremismus/260333/graue-woelfe-die-groesste-rechtsextreme-organisation-in-deutschland 87.143.177.244 (talk) 02:34, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Germany - umbrella organisations: Türk Federasyon, ATIB (ATİB Avrupa Türk-İslam Birliği), and, ATB 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
* 
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 11:13, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: Change incorrect spelling of 'Andrey Klipash' to 'Andrey Klishas'. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrey_Klishas Realsaygashow (talk) 19:01, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 21:36, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 24 October 2022