Talk:Alex Rodriguez/Archive 1

message: The Wikipedia article about Stamford, CT claims that Alex Rodriguez has a home there. But there is no source provided, and I live in Stamford and have never heard of it. Does anyone here know whether or not it's true? ---KeithP 03:17, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Home in Stamford, CT?

message: The section seems to be one's POV (Who are these people that criticize him?) of his criticism. If this is in fact true (And is not consisted of original research), then adding sources would be recommended. Ohyeahmormons 19:23, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Criticism section

message: I think its interesting for the casual reader to note how much better the teams win/loss record was after he left the Mariners and the Rangers. If no one sees fit to highlight this information, I w
ill do it myself. ---Jackel 22:52, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Teams better without him 

message: Without a doubt, the largest debate around a-rod is the fact that he has laid an egg in pressure post season spots for the yankees.  It is important to include a few lines about this in the article.  I have also cited a usa today article that touches on this.
I agree; unfortunately, I tried to do just that not long ago and it was deleted with the claim that it was vandalism and a violation of the NPOV policy, although the present article, with its rah-rah-rah, equally violates NPOV.Alloco1 15:40, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  A-Rod's recent postseason performance 

message: I hate edit wars.  But, if there's anything I hate more than edit wars, it's infoboxes.  Why do people like these so much?  The information isn't current, it's limited, and does not go with the general look for feel of Wikipedia.  Check any American President article, and they have tables, not infoboxes.  Any opinions?  Take care baseball fans.  Googie man 22:26, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Infoboxes vs. Tables 

message: arod is 6`4.
when he got into the mlb for his height and weight he was uber young..
if you look at the pics when he's next to arod.. he towers over him
:That's original research. His published height is 6'3", so that's what goes into the article. Kafziel 00:50, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  height 

message: There's no reason why an article on this subject should have this tag (other than expected repeated vandalism and POV problems).  I did a bit of an overhaul today to make it sound a little more encyclopedic.  Hopefully that tag can come down soon.  Wencer 22:12, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going to give it copyediting in this article a try as well. Since I am no baseball fan, I think I can copyedit this article with a NPOV. I'll see what I can do. BrianZ 22:23, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I removed the copyedit tag as I thoroughly went through the article. However, some fact finding work can still be provided. I looked for reference on his thoughts on his father, under biography, and never found a source, but I did find ESPN.com articles with this text which is why I chose "cited from.." instead of actually referencing the site. BrianZ 23:40, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  The copy-edit tag apparently went back up, but I agree that it is thoroughly copy-edited, so I removed it again. Natalie 22:27, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copy Editing 

message: __
There is an error in the Criticism section.  Alex Rodriguez was not playing for the New York Yankees when they played the Diamondbacks in the World Series, so there is no way that he could have struggled in that series.  He also could not have struggled in the 2003 playoffs against the Red Sox because he was still playing for the Texas Rangers.
__
Hi, this is 24.215.152.80.  I moved the "However, Rodríguez's postseason numbers are statistically indistinguishable from his regular-season record" line back down to the bottom of the section.  This is because Rodriguez's final 2004 ALCS statistics *ARE* substantially different from his career numbers (.307 vs. .258 avg, .577 vs. .516 slg.).  
It's the overall body of Rodriguez's postseason line that's the same as his regular-season numbers.  In individual series, he's hit .133 and he's hit .421.  Fixing the sentence in the specific context of NY's 2004 collapse is, I think, both statistically and rhetorically misleading.  Hope this works for everyone.
___
I added the following to make the criticisms less biased and to put them more into perspective.  I believe it is even-handed, cites evidence, and helps actually inform an individual who has no idea who rodriguez is.
"Of course, these criticisms arose after he signed the highest paying contract in sports' history and worsened after his trade to the Yankees.  Rodriguez has had several MVP caliber seasons, several clutch postseason performances (including the only hit in Roger Clemens' ALCS record 15 strikeout games, being a key factor in defeating the Minnesota Twins in the 2004 ALDS, leaving the Seattle Mariners as a career .357 postseason hitter, while his current postseason average is a mere .305).  Meanwhile, infamously great postseason hitters have comparable statistics, such as Derek Jeter (Mr. November) has a career postseason .307 batting average, Reggie Jackson (Mr. October) has a career .278 batting average, David Ortiz, a large reasons for the Red Sox' recent prowess has a .301 postseason batting average, and the Atlanta Braves' Chipper Jones' .288 postseason batting average.  Only David Ortiz has a higher postseason slugging percentage and Chipper Jones a higher postseason on-base percentage.
Nonetheless, Rodriguez often comes across as a pretentious individual.  Often, he acts humble (such as lobbying for Ken Griffey Junior to win the 1996 AL MVP over himself, claiming that David Ortiz was neck-and-neck in the 2005 MVP race while Ortiz claimed he was a superior player, blaming himself for the Yankees' 2005 postseason loss), and often does not degrade other players publicly.  However, he often directly or indirectly, makes excuses for his inability to perform up to his fans' and detractors' expectations in order to deflect criticism from himself.  For example, his mother blamed his 2005 ALDS woes on the death of his beloved uncle.  In the 2006 season, he blamed his June defensive and offensive swoon on coming back to the lineup too soon after a stomach virus, while it was actually a mechanical flaw in his swing that was responsible.  Furthermore, he blamed his offensive decline in 2003 on the Texas Rangers' inability to compete in the AL West.  Another such example of Rodriguez's publioc pretentiousness was his desire not to play in the World Baseball Classic, because of his dual-citizenship to two countries (the Dominican Republic and the United States).  After media criticisms, he opted to play for the United States.  Consistently, the result of his attempts to deflect criticism only magnifies their validity.  However, being the highest paid player on the highest paid team definitely does not help how a player looks to the public and it goes without saying that Rodriguez's superficial flaws are no less apparently in many other players with much better reputations."
It should be noted that 
(1) perfomances by batters in post-season play ordinarily fall short of their season-long standards. In 2006 one should reasonably expect any Yankees player to have a lower batting average, on-base percentage, and slugging average because of the pitchers that they will face. I write this before the 2006 playoffs, but I figure that A-Rod will face either the Detroit Tigers or the Minnesota Twins, teams with the best and second-best ERAs in the American League. (Third this year are the Angels). The A's have the fourth-lowest team ERA, but of course A-Rod will be spared the team with the fifth-best team ERA -- his own Yankees.
It's no fluke that teams with the 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 5th best AL ERAs  will be in the playoffs. Those are not the teams against which one inflates one's batting record. Those teams all have good pitching and defense, so they give up far fewer cheap hits and slightly fewer home runs. That's the way things always have been; post-season baseball has been a showcase of great pitchers. Look at the list of starting pitchers
in those games, and you will see lots of Sandy Koufax, Bob Gibson, Warren Spahn, Whitey Ford, Jim Palmer, Lefty Grove, Christy Matthewson, John Smoltz, Catfish Hunter, Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez... that's what all Yankee batters face in the post-season, and it's not only A-Rod who gets to face them. This year's Detroit Tigers, Minnesota Twins, and Oakland A's are no bargains for any hitter to face. What did you expect this year in the playoffs -- the Royals to hit .350 against? If he crushed such a bad team, he's be lost in the crowd of players who hit two homers in 10-3 blowouts. 
But what the heck? He could hit .260 with one home run against the Detroit Tigers in each of three pitchers' duels and be the Big Hero because it's tough to hit .250 against the 2006 Tigers, and nobody does as well.    
It gets worse for hitters; A-Rod, or any other Yankee, will face the best pitchers on those teams. 
(2) A-Rod is now 31. He is certifiably a great player, but as a rule all 
groups of baseball players peak in overall value around age 27, remain at such a level until about 30, and then go into decline. Injuries typically become more common and severe, so playing time as a rule goes down. A-Rod is in the group (Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, Ken Griffey Jr., Barry Bonds, Joe DiMaggio, Cal Ripken, Jr., Stan Musial, George Brett) that declines more slowly and remains above-average players until they are 35 or so if they take care of themselves. It is safe to say that we have seen him at his best, and that we can expect his batting average and power statistics to taper off, and for him to lose range in the field.  So says Bill James about other players of the past; the decline is far sharper for players of lesser talent.
--Paul from Michigan 16:34, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Criticism" edits 

message: References are given in the article, they just weren't wikified, which I just fixed. It would help if someone could "name" the references in the reference box instead of just leaving them showing as a link. Darwin's Bulldog 20:18, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: References

message: It seems like this should be mentioned somewhere, but I'm not sure where to put it.
When Rodriguez requested a trade from the Rangers, he mentioned that “I would have never gone to Texas if they had told me, ‘Alex, it's going to be you and 24 kids.’ Never. For no amount of money”, even after saying that one of the reasons he decided to sign with Texas was its up and coming players.  link here Ebryns427 15:46, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "24 Kids" quote

message: :I'm not sure if this is worth mentioning-at least, not at this moment-but it might merit inclusion sometime in the future, depending upon developments.
:Fernando Mateo, of livery cab fame, has just created a pro-Rodriguez website.  
:http://savearod.com/
Ruthfulbarbarity 21:17, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Save A-Rod?

message: Just for the record, I believe Fernando Mateo's fine site is called http://cheerarod.com/.  The one mentioned above, http://savearod.com/, is mine.  Rich in Jax.
:My mistake. 
:Thanks for the edification. 
Ruthfulbarbarity 23:25, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clarification 

message: Any votes for deleting the criticisms section?
Delete (1)
Keep (1) - It would be nonsense to delete this, A-Rod scruitinised more than any other baseball player. Zerbey 03:36, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, it "appears" that way, does it? Well, let's shove it into the article forthwith. Woodshed 03:15, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticisms section 

message: 24.215.152.197 04:37, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Epeefleche edits & reverts

message: 24.215.152.197 06:15, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe you should do that, find an article, and cite it. Or you could mewl on a talk page. Whichever you prefer. Woodshed 08:59, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Citation request

message: This may sound silly, but the work "Despite" appears 8 times in this article.  Can someone take a crack at doing a bit of rewriting?  I would step in, but it looks like there is a bit of history here and I haven't been a regular contributor at this page, so I don't want to break any previously achieved consensus. --After Midnight 0001 02:55, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Despite 

message: What's the use of the adverb there? Wouldn't just "married" suffice? I think it's an unnecessary addition that might open the door for similar edits of either positive or negative adverbs.--SlightlyInsane 20:14, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Happily" married 

message: Why is there a "(sic)" after the word "gotten"? "Gotten" is correct--even preferred--American English.
There's an interesting discussion here: http://www.bartelby.com/64/C003/0144.html
64.32.228.161 00:28, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  sic? 

message: Looking on the page for the single of "Numb/Encore" by Linkin Park feat. Jay-Z, in the trivia section it says ""Numb/Encore" is the walk-up song for New York Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez." and yet on this page, is says "Missy Elliott's "Lose Control" is the song played before his at-bats in Yankee Stadium."
71.195.85.110 14:56, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As it says in the article, Lose Control is just "one of the songs" played before he enters the game. Anyway, Numb/Encore should also be mentioned since it is also stated at List_of_baseball_entrance_music. I'll add the references for both items. Thanks for bringing it up. Nishkid64 23:45, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: At-Bat Walk-up Tune