Talk:Arthur Koestler

message: No list of Koestler's books is complete without mention of his wonderful autobiography, Volume I of which is called "Arrow in the Blue".  It's a must read for anyone interested in Koestler.
I have added a write-up of how this first autobiography gives an early insight into his later decision to end his life. sc00b 02:19, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''Arrow in the Blue'' 

message: An automated Wikipedia link suggester has some possible wiki link suggestions for the Arthur_Koestler article:
* Can link political activist: ...r (September 5, 1905 - 1983) was a novelist, political activist, and social philosopher.  He was the author of many popular...
* Can link film director: ...that Koestler had beaten and raped several women, including film director Jill Craigie.  After protests, a bust of Koestler was r... (link to section)
* Can link out of step: ...inburgh]]. ==Work==  Much of Koestler's work was completely out of step with mainstream views.  He did not merely arrive at differe... (link to section)
* Can link 8th century: ...ple in the Caucasus who converted to Judaism in the 8th century and were later forced to move westwards into current [[Russ... (link to section)
* Can link personal life: ...ile implicit in his works, carried tremendous weight in his personal life. This was confirmed when he left a substantial part of his ... (link to section)
Additionally, there are some other articles which may be able to linked to this one (also known as "backlinks"):
* In Sarkel, can backlink Arthur Koestler: ...nd settled in western Russia. From: The Thirteenth tribe by Arthur Koestler
* In Scientific mythology, can backlink Arthur Koestler: ... and his reasons for withholding publication.  According to Arthur Koestler, Copernicus did not propose a true heliocentric theory, he ...
Notes: The article text has not been changed in any way; Some of these suggestions may be wrong, some may be right.
Feedback: I like it, I hate it, Please don't link to — LinkBot 11:32, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggest 5 possible wiki links and 2 possible backlinks for [[Arthur Koestler]]. 

message: See Russian (usage) page for explanations. Please write your objections at its talk page, but don't revert right away. Mikkalai 20:29, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: See Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28policy%29/Archive C#Russian_.28usage.29_page for why this is a bad idea. Significant shifts in linking practices should get some kind of policy approval, rather than being implemented unilaterally for the articles you prefer.  Please don't insert you link again until you get some consensus for it. Jayjg  | (Talk)</sup> 20:53, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Russian 

message: This page could use some copyediting/encyclopedizing. I'll try to help when I have time. --Dpr 09:07, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Editing

message: Koestler was not in a Vichy camp but before the Germans occupied France.
According 'Scum of the Earth' he left Vernet in january 1940.
Pse a correction. Ronald van Maas.
: Please leave a URL or better reference as regards this information – thanks, David Kernow 22:57, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vichy France 

message: Artur Kösztler in Hungary is bad... the good write is Kösztler Artur (whe he was born his name - in Hungary - is Kösztler Artur. David - from hungary Wiki (please use my discussion page here). Please change it - thanks.
: Done!  Best wishes, David Kernow 22:54, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  But now we say in the text "Koestler was born in Budapest to Henrik and Adele Koestler", which suggests the family name was Koestler, yet in the infobox he was born with the surname Kösztler.  Which is the case?  --  Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 21:20, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  His name! 

message: Does anyone have a source for this?  With acrostics being common in the Tanakh, it would seem odd that no one had earlier created a crossword puzzle in Hebrew.  --Blainster 02:59, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the article texts states that he "claimed" to be the first. Which is highly possible, if we are talking in the narrower modern sense. The reference is either from Cesarani or Koestler's own description of his time in Palestine. Crosswords are less than 200 years old in English (I think) and neo-Hebrew is an even younger language. --MacRusgail 11:36, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: First crosswords in Hebrew?

message: Sounds like a philosopher, author and journalist. Why is he a polymath?  The 'science' sounds like philosophy of science or pseudoscience. 146.115.120.205 12:38, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well being the things you just said would make him a polymath, if only in the subjects he wrote about; he was also involved in many political campaigns at the front line, scientific research to a degree (such as in the case of the effects of LSD, or more controversially fringe science (what is and isn't "pseudoscience" is highly subjective anyway)). I think the fact that he wrote about such varied subjects, ranging from history, to science, to language to politics justifies this description. He also wrote (with varying success) in a number of creative genres - fiction, drama, and journalism. --MacRusgail 19:07, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The term's usually used to refer to people who excelled in both the arts and sciences.  While I guess it's not strictly a misuse, it's unusual to apply to someone who excelled in multiple areas of the humanities but not the sciences, or alternately in multiple sciences but not the humanities. --Delirium 16:59, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Whether he excelled in the sciences is a matter of opinion. :) He certainly was involved in both the sciences and humanities, and had works published in both areas. --MacRusgail 19:15, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Why is he a polymath?

message: There isn't very much about Koestler being a rapist in this article beyond the mention of Cesarani's "claim"; in the linked article to Jill Craigie, though, the wording states that in Cesarani's biography "it was revealed he had been a serial rapist." Was he a rapist or not? is this disputed anywhere? does anyone care? Hjijch 01:54, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, some people definitely care. There was a big ruckus about this at the University of Edinburgh regarding the Jill Craigie claim. Coupled with Koestler's double suicide, his relationship with women is controversial. Is it disputed? Well, I don't know whether he did rape her or not, but it certainly is believed by some people. --MacRusgail 16:31, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Allegations that he was a serial and violent rapist surely merit a section of there own.Musungu jim 00:57, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And also very careful wording. --MacRusgail 14:26, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Here is a 2003 review from The Times of Ronald Neame's biography of Tweedie; the rape by Koestler is the headline. 86.132.140.178 (talk) 00:45, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Rapist

message: The comment about the Balfour Declaration, that in it "one nation solemnly PROMISED to a second nation the country of a third," is included in Chapter 1, Romantics and Routine, of "Promise and Fulfillment, Palestine 1917-1949," first published by MacMillan and Co. Ltd., London and New York,  in 1949. In the paperback, PAPERMAC (a division of MacMillan), shortened version of the original edition, published in 1983, the comment appears on page 4. The paragraph in which it appears reads:
:"Now an improbable event [the rise of Zionism] is bound to lead to further improbable events, until the area of the the disturbance [a comparison has been made with a golf ball which has suddenly started moving towards a hole without being hit] gradually returns to normality. The ball which started rolling towards the hole on its own upsets the routine of the whole tournament. The appearance of the freak movement of Zionism on the political scene was bound to produce a series of freak-reactions. It culminated in the famous Balfour Declaration, one of the most improbable political documents of all time. In this document one nation solemnly promised to a second nation the country of a third."
--ZScarpia 14:25, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Balfour Declaration (Source of Citation)

message: I note that someone has referred to Koestler as post-modernist. I think some of his stuff is proto-post-modernist (if there is such a thing! I have to admit I hate the whole concept of post-modernism, because it is deliberately protean and pretty parasitic), in its critiques of science, and even communism. --MacRusgail 11:54, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Koestler as post-modernist 

message: Holons in a Holarchy have the dual tendency of integration and development and out of balance they tend to a pathology.   
74.138.179.146 03:07, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: To understand this statement you should read Koestler's "A Ghost in the Machine" or "Janus: A Summing Up", more so the later. Holons are the basic building blocks of a Holarchy, where this Holarchy can be considered a system where it is considered more than just the sum of its parts. Each Holon has basically two or dual responsibilities, an integrating and an autonomous role. As Holons begin to interplay their autonomous roles can be supplanted by higher roles that allow them to integrate with each other and perform possible new actions that enable the entire system of holons to work together as one system with behaviors not evident when existing as just an amalgam of individual holons [note: this is not Emergence as in complex systems theory]. This integrated system is what is referred to as the 'dual tendency of integration and development', and the period when there is just an amalgam of holons is where these holons are when they are 'out of balance they tend to a pathology'. If you consider the Holarchy to be the desired state, then before this integrating state arises each holon behaves to its own pathological autonomous way, and the final state of integration is the "healthy" or balanced state of affairs. [note: this is also not an analogy of self-organization either]
Holon One (talk) 08:29, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Does anyone have a clue what this sentence means?

message: Could somebody write an IPA version of his name to illustrate the pronunciation? I think it could be usefull. Musungu jim 13:39, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Could be a problem as there is more than one. "Koestler" is usually pronounced "Kessler/Kestler" in English, but "Köstler" is the real pronounciation no doubt.--MacRusgail 16:54, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I would guess "Kuhstler".--MacRusgail 18:58, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: like that or something like Kurstler is how it is always pronounced in English. Never heard it pronounced anything like Kessler.Jagdfeld (talk) 09:19, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Heard it pronounced as "Kessler" tonnes of times. That's how they tend to pronounce it in Edinburgh University (where he had a connection). In my view, it would be good to include both, with a footnote.--MacRusgail (talk) 15:45, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That's just a Scots accent, I think, which tends to be quick, reducing the vowel to something very short between e and ur. Jagdfeld (talk) 20:23, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Nope, common misconception. The RP form of English (unlike American, bar "New Yawk") tends to drop the "r" after a vowel (just as Cockney drops the "h" or adds it to certain words). It's very arhotic. ;-) In IPA, the final "r" might be recorded for the German/Hungarian pronounciated (but not beforethe "s"!), but for the RP, no "r" sound would appear anywhere. --MacRusgail (talk) 20:33, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Pronunciation of 'post-vocalic r' is a much more complicated matter than you suppose, both in the UK and in the US. See Rhotic and non-rhotic accents. Anyway the BBC pronunciation of the name is nearer to 'cursed-ler' than 'kessler'. Jagdfeld (talk) 22:46, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, British pronunciation is 'Curse-(t)ler', with silent r's. Rothorpe (talk) 23:06, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

text: Because his birthname was "Kösztler" and that's how it would be pronounced in German.--MacRusgail 19:19, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation 

message: Why is there no mention of the Koestler trust which Arthur Koestler created. It is to promote rehabilitation of prisioners through creativity.
by annon
::I have just spotted that too but am right in the middle of tiding up a lot of other loose ends to be able to think of any thing encyclopaedic to say. So will just leave this link here in the hope that an art therapist or someone can pick it up. Broadmoor hospital often have patients (they don't call them  prisoners)  who win Koestler prizes. http://www.koestlertrust.org.uk/ --Aspro 10:26, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll add it. Great idea, but not keen on a lot of the winners!!! --MacRusgail 19:28, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The Koestler Trust

message: I noticed someone added the Forteam Times link in and it was reverted. I asked about the removals  and Hu12 did say "Feel free to add back YOUR contribs to the Charles Fort article, as 194.205.219.2's contribs are all I'm targeting.--Hu12 19:49, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Again - why? I thought it was an informative article, and I am puzzled why the editors seem to have targetted this particular one. I have also updated the link - the old one was defunct, and the new one works. --MacRusgail 16:13, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia defines spam as "Adding external links to an article or user page for the purpose of promoting a website or a product is not allowed, and is considered to be spam. Although the specific links may be allowed under some circumstances, repeatedly adding links will in most cases result in all of them being removed." (see WP:SPAM).  That is why the links are reverted.  Also, there are editors here that have a conflict of interest with that link ("3. Linking to the Wikipedia article or website of your organization in other articles (see Wikipedia:Spam);").  That is why the link was removed.  Also, we have to observe WP:NOT#REPOSITORY, a few links are OK, there are now 8.  If the link is interesting and tells something about the subject, maybe use it as a reference (see also the intro of WP:EL)?  Hope this explains.  --Dirk Beetstra T C 16:55, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Except, that despite your belief that it does, I can't see how. The page is a profile of Arthur Koestler, which is in line with the article, and actually quite informative. --MacRusgail 17:39, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I am sorry, I don't understand.  You mean that you don't see how you can use this as a reference?  I could try and break down all items in WP:EL (I could ask some questions like: does it add to the page, does it contain information that you cannot incorporate, etc., in which is this link providing more info than others (so would other links then also have to be here, so that we do get a linkfarm ..)), but I don't think that is really necessary.  The link was originally spammed to this page, and therefore removed.  If the general consensus is to place it there, then I am fine with that.  If the page links to a profile, then certainly it contains information that is also on the wiki-page, and hence, it would make a great reference for certain parts (I see e.g. in the biography that he has been imprisoned a couple of times, at first glance I do not see the wikipedia article mention that information).  And there may be other info.  Hope this helps.  --Dirk Beetstra T C 18:09, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, I see what you're getting at. Yes, it probably can be used as a reference. But no, I don't think it necessarily performs as spam (certainly one of the better pieces of spam I've seen if so). There are some mentions of his imprisonment in the article, and I'll try and link into that... --MacRusgail 18:11, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

text: For the spam issue, see special:contributions/Ali strachan (this page was the very first edit, see also WT:WPSPAM#Dennis_Publishing_WP:COI_Spam).  Such link-additions should be discussed, not merely be a mass addition.  I agree, there is way worse, still such additions are arguably not neutral.  But thanks for the help, have a nice day!  --Dirk Beetstra T C 19:06, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've used it as a reference to his imprisonment, experience at 14, and his membership of the SPR. --MacRusgail 19:14, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fortean Times article link

message: Anybody ever heard about another biography, entitled Koestler: A Biography, edited by Hamilton in 1982?
:-- 88.72.4.198 07:17, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: -- 88.72.31.45 07:34, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Biography

message: If Koestler was born into a German-speaking family, why is he featured as Kösztler Artúr in the article? That, for sure, is not German, but Hungarian. If Koestler's mother language was German, I do not see why the Hungarian name should be mentioned. --84.253.213.93 (talk) 13:32, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Because he was probably registered by a Hungarian speaker, and it should be borne in mind that a period of Magyarisation was beginning. I think it should be included. It is of interest. At least to me.--MacRusgail (talk) 15:40, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: But did they speak German or Hungarian in his home? If the former, the Hungarian name form cannot be called "native" without discussion of what that means in this case. (As with many other cases, I suppose.) 83.253.28.222 (talk) 03:01, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question regarding the name 

message: I removed this from the article:
"Questions have been raised by his suicide pact with his last spouse.  Although he was terminally ill at the time, Cynthia was apparently healthy, leading some to claim he persuaded her to take her own life."
I removed it because (1) the last phrase is unattributed opinion, i.e. disallowed Wiki "weasel words"; (2) it speaks of a "suicide pact" without any information about it, (3) it speaks of a terminal illness without any discussion of it; and (3) it assumes we know that Cynthia did indeed take her life. 
Before restoring this sentence to the article these questions need to be answered in the article:
What was the cause of his death?
What was his terminal illness?
How did he respond to this diagnosis?
What was the "suicide pact" he made with Cynthia?
Did they carry it out?
How did the carry it out?
What was Cynthia's state of health? of mind?
Who claims "he persuaded her to take her own life"?
Where is this claim published?
How does this differ from suicide pacts where one participant does not persuade the other?
How can you distinguish between the two cases?
Nick Beeson (talk) 15:54, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Suicide

message: Koestler never had French nationality. Have amended accordingly.
3ig-350125 (talk) 21:13, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Nationality

message: I intend to introduce a more structured order into this article under broadly the following headings:
1.	Early Life
2.	Palestine
3.	Return to Germany
4.	Journalism
5.	Impact of rise of fascism in Germany
6.	Conversion to Communism
7.	Travels in the Soviet Union
8.	Writing propaganda
9.	Living in France
10.	Spanish Civil War
11.	Break with Communism
12.	England
13.	Literary output
14.	Wives and other significant relationships
15.	Final years
16.     Illness and Suicide
17.	Notes
18.	References
19.	External Links
I intend to do this gradually. I also intend to archive the current discussion page as it is far too long and start a new page. Views on these proposed restructurings are welcome. 3ig-350125 (talk) 09:25, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I would argue that his biography, and his ideas should be separated. Matters such as his relationship with Communism, for example, should be in their own section. This list also doesn't cover his relationship with science, and is too heavily loaded towards his life before England.--MacRusgail (talk) 17:34, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. Points taken and will come back to them with suggestions on how to go about this. 3ig-350125 (talk) 17:55, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed new structure for this article

message: What about the connection with Camus and Anti-capital punishment (death penalty)? One of his great contributions...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.213.22.193 (talk) 22:51, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Camus? 

message: Article started. Please help expand it.--MacRusgail (talk) 16:06, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I am working my way through numerous Koestler biographies and reviews and building up the main article on Koestler here. I am bound to come up with appropriate further information re the Trus and will share details with the new page you have started, as and when ... 3ig-350125 (talk) 16:55, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, that's excellent. I hope the rewrite goes well. I'll give it a good look over when you're finished.--MacRusgail (talk) 17:12, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Koestler Trust]] 

message: I have completed the restructuring of this article. The structure is now linear as well as chronological. There is, of course, an awful lot more one could include, but this is an encyclopaedic entry, not a full-blown biography and I had to draw the line somewhere. In fact, I had to repeatedly go back to excise and condense my own writing.
 
I reversed my decision to create a separate section for wives and other significant women in Koestler’s life, partly because his liaisons were so numerous and partly because this is, after all, essentially an article about Koestler the writer. I did, however, include sufficient information about his three wives and have also mentioned Janine Graetz, the mother of his illegitimate daughter. I have also included an image of 8 Montpelier Square, taken by me on 30 July 2009, when passing through London.
To make this discussion page more user-friendly, at the end of this month I shall archive the page.  3ig-350125 (talk) 18:29, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Restructuring completed 4 Aug. 2009

message: The section on that subject says, "In the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy religious education in schools was compulsory and from age six, when he started school, he would have been introduced to the Hebrew alphabet and the Hebrew language through Bible-reading classes. It is likely that he picked up some Yiddish too, through contact with his grandfather." His possible knowledge of Yiddish is sourced to Cesarani, but the statement about the Hebrew language is pure speculation and extremely unlikely. When was Bible-reading in Budapest primary schools ever in Hebrew? Marshall46 (talk) 19:32, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I haven't heard this. Did Koestler ever have a Bar Mitzvah or attend synagogue as a child? --MacRusgail (talk) 20:55, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Languages 

message: Christopher Hitchens wrote this piece over at "The Atlantic" and thought it might be potentially useful for this article and hence I will post it here for future reference (feel free to use if you think it is suitable etc.). . Cheers!Calaka (talk) 10:03, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Edit: Technically it is a book review for this book:Koestler: The Literary and Political Odyssey of a Twentieth-Century Skeptic               by Michael Scammell. Just to clarify.Calaka (talk) 10:04, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Essay/Review about Arthur. 

message: Although the 689-page, authorized biography of Koestler by Michael Scammell has been published since late 2009, there are very few citations from this book, while there are many still from Cesarani.
I am going to begin adding quotes from Scammell.  While I will leave in many or most references to Cesarani, I am going to note when quotes come from the authorized biography versus others.
Please note:  Cesarani has errors in his biography, which Scammel corrects.  For instance (and this is where I start making changes today), in the "Origins and Early Life" section, this article cites Cesarani's error (which comes from Koester himself) that Koestler's paternal grandfather came from Russia:  he was in fact an "Austrian," i.e., from the Austrian empire (including Hungary).  Cesarani spells his mother's surname "Zeiteles" when it was "Jeiteles."
If any have different thoughts about this plan, please feel free to let me know.  --Aboudaqn (talk) 05:53, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Scammell vs. Cesarani

message: I am surprised that so little is said about this tract in the article, and that no one has written an article on the work itself. ROH is one of the most important philipics in Western History. It had a DIRECT influence on the abolition of hanging in Britain, and in consequence much of the rest of the world. He keeps his style compassionate but reasonable and cool. He cites examples of what happens on the gallows, the way judges deliver their verdict, and most importantly, he utterly destroys the notion that murderers were unmitigated renegades. Most murders, then and now, were domestic, and based on sudden impulse. The work is one of the finest arguments in ethics, and it WORKED. Considering Wikipedia has an article on an exploding whale corpse replete with exhaustive accounts, photos, links and archives of talk pages, it would be pleasing to see a small fraction of all that effort devoted to something infinitely more worthy. 
There is one quote in the work which will ALWAYS stay with me: A judge, sentencing a man to death for the forgery of a florin, says "And I hope that in the next world, you might receive the mercy that a due regard for the currency forbids you to hope for here." Myles325a (talk) 08:17, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reflections on Hanging 

message: The second photo in this entry, whose caption reads "Arthur Koestler with Mamaine Paget, Robie Macauley, and Flannery O'Connor in 1947. Photo by C. Cameron Macauley" is wrong:  Koestler simply does not appear in that photo.  I cannot imagine why someone would have gone to such trouble to find the photo, write a long caption -- and then muff the main detail, but there you have it.
What is proper procedure here?  (If asked, I would vote to remove the photo.)--Aboudaqn (talk) 04:38, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: False Photo

message: An image used in this article, , has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests January 2012 
;What should I do?
Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
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This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 15:13, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: File:Arthur Koestler.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: I have manually reverted a change to the article. Adding this to talk in case our vandal comes back. 
The vandal deleted a statement and a reference, and instead made an opposite claim, which went unreferenced. It also went way off the NPOV map with a bit about "Zionist groups who seek to hold onto stolen Palestinian land". I don't expect that's a conflict that will end in my lifetime, but those words couldn't be any more weasely if they tried. They're also uncited. 
For reference compare and contrast the original:
Koestler's thesis about the Khazar origins of European Jews - while widely cited by various antisemitic groups(requested a citation for this) - has been conclusively disproven by science. Since the year 2000, genetic studies on Jews around the world have demonstrated that widely separated Jewish populations have a common origin that traces back to the vicinity of the Middle East.[73] <---- reference.
with the changed version:
Koestler's thesis about the Khazar origins of European Jews - while widely rejected by Zionist groups who seek to hold onto stolen Palestinian land - was marginally confirmed by genetic studies, which showed a genetic similarity to people living north of Georgia, moreso than to Arabs, but the two genetic groups are only slightly different to begin with <---- no reference
I've made this revert primarily because I disagree with removing referenced material to add a POV statement, rather than because I agree with the original claim. If others want to edit appropriately, or even remove that's fine.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.174.192.6 (talk) 02:11, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism (Judaism section, where else)

message: Since Arthur Koestler died in 1983, shouldn't the name of the category to which this article is assigned be "Deaths through Parkinson's Disease" rather than "People with Parkinson's Disease"? ACEOREVIVED (talk) 23:38, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: About the categorisation

message: The first part, the biography part of the article, is well-made, and relevant. 
Further, I am a bit surprised and shocked : there is his suicide note and then, a paragraph on the "rapist" and "misogynistic" tendencies when he copulated, and then, paranormal activities as well as the jewish part of him. 
What a mess !
Question : Wikipedia means to be an encyclopedia. In which encyclopedia you can find in a library will you find a suicide note and articles on the sexuality of the person you enquired about ? 
If you want to know that, you read the biography of the person. 
Second, I am asking in name of the ethics, how relevant the suicide note is. For me it is not. It is shocking, and has nothing to do here, when we see there is almost no mention or quotation of it's books. 
In the same way, I would like to know how relevant how the "rapist" stuff is ? (and even if it's true. I mean, there is nothing to do in an Encyclopedia. When you read an article on Computers, you haven't a part on "how the silicium worker are slave", isn't it ?)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.128.1.97 (talk) 13:35, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intellectually acceptable/relevant ?  

message: This is my first time using the talk pages, please be gentle and let me know if I should have done something better.
This article claims Koestler's first novel (The Gladiators) was originally written in Hungarian. This claim is repeated in other articles: The Gladiators (novel), Arrival and Departure. There's no supporting citation in any of these.
On the other hand Invisible Writing has this: "The novel [The Gladiators] was first published in England in 1939, in an excellent translation by Edith Simon. Then the war broke out, the German manuscript was lost during my flight from France, and the German edition which appeared after the war had to be re-translated from the English translation." I have an epub edition on my hands right now, so I can't tell the exact page number, but this is in the penultimate paragraph of Chapter XXIV. Excursion into the First Century B.C..
I also looked up a Hungarian biography of Koestler which claims in Chapter 4. Spartacus p63.:
"Koestler mind első regényét [Gladiátorok], mind azt ezt követő Sötétség délbent német nyelven írta, de Franciaország a második világháború kezdetén bekövetkezett összeomlása alatt az eredeti kézirat elkalódott, csak angol fordítása maradt fenn."
in MÁRTON László: Koestler, a lázadó [Koestler, the rebel], Pallas Könyvek 2006. 
In my rough translation: "Koestler wrote his first novel [The Gladiators] along with the following Darkness at Noon in German, however the original manuscript was lost during the fall of France at the begininng of WWII, only an English translation remained."
The second source may not be independent of the first.
These sources though bring me to the conclusion that The Gladiators was not written in Hungarian, but in German. Unless someone challanges this with other sources, I'm going to change the above three articles soon to reflect this.
Rubasov (talk) 18:48, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I have made the changes and removed the claims of The Gladiators being written in Hungarian. 89.132.73.236 was actually me, I just forgot to log in. Rubasov (talk) 19:36, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Original language of The Gladiators 

message: hello. it says arthur koestler's father was born in 1869 and married in 1861. I have no information about either but this seems to be impossible.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.94.63.217 (talk) 23:32, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Arthur's grandfather married in 1861, and Arthur's father was born in 1869. Somers-all-the-time (talk) 14:52, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Arthur Koestler's father 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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message: Move trimmed external links here (for possible discussion) per WP:ELPOINTS (#3), WP:ELMIN, and WP:NOTREPOSITORY.
* Remembering Arthur Koestler
* Autobiographical Video-Interview with Arthur Koestler in French with German sub-titles and comments
* 2007 City Journal article on Koestler
* Arthur Koestler Project
*
* General Properties of Koestler's Open hierarchical Systems
* Hungarian site on Koestler
* Koestler's Legacy – Fortean Times article on the centenary of Koestler's birth
* Mystical Experiences of Arthur Koestler
* 
* The Koestler Trust
* Arthur Koestler at Wikiquote
* C-SPAN Q&A interview with Scammell about Koestler: The Literary and Political Odyssey of a Twentieth-Century Skeptic, 10 January 2010
* 
--  Otr500 (talk) 13:16, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links 

message: Does anybody know or understand why Herbert Simon is included in the list of "See also" Arthur_Koestler#See_also 90.228.221.245 (talk) 14:39, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why Herbert Simon among "See also"? 

message: (Sorry, I only knows read in english) I read in this article: «He was still in prison when Daphne Hardy's English translation of his book Darkness at Noon was published in early 1941». But before, in «Published works»: «1940. Darkness at Noon». In the article «Darkness at Noon» the Wikipedia says: «Darkness at Noon (German: Sonnenfinsternis) is a novel by Hungarian-born novelist Arthur Koestler, first published in 1940». Then I supose the right year is 1940. If it's true, someone could change it in the article. Thanks. Golls (talk) 09:19, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  «Early 1941»