Talk:İstiklal Marşı

message: I would like to offer my translation of the first two verses for consideration as a way of capturing the gist of the lyrics while attempting to match the syllable count, maintain a rhyme scheme, and have the translation be singable. I am not Turkish but I hope this does justice to the original.
Fear not ye this crimson flag in the winds shall never cease to soar / 
Last of the endlessly blazing hearths above my motherland / 
That is my nation’s very own brightly shining beacon-star / 
That is mine, that is unmistakably my motherland’s.
Spite not, coy crescent, thy face—a sacrifice let me be / 
Smile on my lineage of heroes—why this anger, why this pride? / 
For would not the blood we shed be undeserving of thee / 
Freedom is my God-exalting nation’s fundamental right.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Metonyme (talk • contribs) 15:32, 7 November 2006
Woohoo!
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.214.177.167 (talk • contribs) 16:55, 4 March 2006
* I am giving you the best Vandal of the week award! What does "Woohoo!" mean! When I see vandals like you, I don't erase your "interesting" writings. I let people to see the finest examples of the vandalism. With respect, the son of the nomadic warriors, Deliogul 16:12, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Translation

message: All the vocal recordings I could find on the net cover only the first two verses of the Anthem.  Is there a vocal version of the entire anthem out there, or are only the first two verses considered the Anthem? Inkan1969 04:54, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Only two verses? 

message: I think there should be one definite translation with more clarifying notes. As it is now, I don't see how it is justified to have 2 very similar translations. 67.183.83.235 08:49, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why 2 translations? 

message: As a Turk I wouldn't translate this line with "The lands of the West may be armored with walls of steel"
I think the poem has a more defensive characteric than a offensive one. After all it is written reffering to a big struggle for independence where the western countries were attacking Turkey, not the other way round.
In my opinion the words "Garb'ın afakını" (In modern Turkish: "Batı'nın dört bir yanını") could also be understood as the "western side of Turkey" which was surrounded with a lot of modernest battleships (particularly the battlefront at Aegean Sea; battles of Çanakkale and Gallipoli), therefore "walls of steel"?
Nonetheless it was also the eastern side of Turkey which was under hostile attack, so my theory could be wrong, but Ersoy was afaik especially involved at the western front, travelling from town to town, preaching and motivating soldier troops before they would strike out to the fronts - e.g. in Izmir.
But this is just a interpretation of mine. You can both agree or disagree... --85.178.155.166 02:57, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Garb'ın âfâkını sarmışsa çelik zırhlı duvar,..." 

message: -This is Engllish language Wikipedia, remember?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.186.197.60 (talk) 14:51, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  İstiklal Marşı Bestesi Nerden Alındı 

message: Are you sure that the right translation of "ırk" in Ottoman Turkish is "race"? In modern Turkish, "ırk" means "race", but it has a different meaning in Ottoman Turkish, and it should be. Because the poet of this poem is Mehmet Akif Ersoy who was form Albanian origin. Also, many of his poems he says that race (sometimes even nation) is a foolish concept and actually religion is important. So I think "nation" is better translate for this word. Actually even nation doesn't correspond for this word, because what Akif understands from "millet" and "ırk" words is much more different from today. "Millet" has also a religion-related meaning which is not used now. (see Millet (Ottoman Empire)) As you can see, he never used "Turk" word in İstiklâl Marşı, and neither any of his poems. For one of his poems that he opposed nationalism and the menaing of these words Akif used check  (Turkish)--Cfsenel (talk) 22:41, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Another English translation of the İstiklal Marşı which also has the original Ottoman Turkish text of the anthem. "Irk" is translated as "nation" here which I think better than "race". --Cfsenel (talk) 22:47, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: İstilal Marşı is not a "Turkish racist" poem. It is an Islamist and anti-Western poem. Islamism is used heavily in it. On the other hand "Irk" is not a "Turkish" word. It is an Arabic word and it means "race." It doesn't mean "family" or "generation." There is a Turkish word "ırk" which means omen (Irk Bitig). Thus, the "ırk" in the anthem means "race" as an Arabic word. So you can ask "then, which 'race' is it?" It is the Semitic race. In Islam, Semitic race is superrior and every muslim is needed to assimilate into Semitic race (Arab).--85.106.193.247 (talk) 05:37, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Race" in the English translation 

message: It would be nice to embed a version with chorus to accompany the the purely orchestral version.   If anyone has a usable source, please contribute.Mavigogun (talk) 05:52, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Sound file with Lyrics

message: Is the same music/melody for the Turkish anthem also used for that of Azerbaijan? --71.111.194.50 (talk) 01:57, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: No. The melodies were composed by different composers and are completely different. You can listen to a sample of the Azerbaijani national anthem on our page Azərbaycan marşı.  --Lambiam 06:51, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Music 

message: He is not of "Uzbek" origin. He is an Albanian.
There is a heavy commentary in article for to trying to show that there is no "racism" in the anthem. But there is an effort to "show" Ersoy as a Turkish person. This doesn't fit with the "anti-racist" commentary.
Ersoy is Albanian and he has no Turkish (or Turkic if you like) heritage.--85.106.193.247 (talk) 05:30, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mehmet Akif Ersoy 

message: Edgar Manas was not only an ethnic Armenian, but an Armenian musician. I think it's pretty useful to provide some background to some of these composers. We can provide background information for Ersoy and Üngör as well. A one word character should be enough though. Étienne Dolet (talk) 08:10, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Why is it useful though? I can make sense of some reference to Ersoy's general writing style and the literary tradition he represents, maybe, because that would add value to the interpretation of the anthem's text. But why ethnicity? I don't really think it adds to the reader's understanding and if they are curious about Manas' background, we do have an article on him. --GGT (talk) 10:16, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: You know, I'd agree with you if the İstiklâl Marşı were a nursery rhyme, or if Manas was the author of Ali Babanın çiftliği or something. But this is the national anthem of Turkey, and Manas, being an Armenian and a co-author of this anthem makes it a pretty big deal for both Turks and Armenians, and I'm sure for our readership as well. Given the history between these two communities, I would find the bit about Manas' Armenian identity striking. Now, don't get me wrong, it doesn't have to be about his identity either. Manas was an Armenian musician, as in he made Armenian music. We can focus on that more than his ethnicity, which would be okay with me. Better yet, we can create a short section entitled "Composers" and elaborate this there. Or just elaborate it more in a section on its history (like in God Save the Queen). Étienne Dolet (talk) 18:33, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not feeling particularly strong on this one, but when it comes to personal opinion as you put forward, I think that this isn't really meaningful in this context. I removed the ethnicity of the flag designer from the Cypriot flag per the same rationale () but there it can be argued to at least demonstrate that there was a level of support for the nascent state in Turkish Cypriot society, and hence some "notability". Here? Anti-Armenian sentiment was still rampant. Sure, I totally understand your point, it is striking, but I don't think it's necessarily a big deal. Furthermore, I'm still not convinced that it adds anything to the reader's understanding of the anthem, which is what we are aiming - we don't write articles for the sake of being "striking" or "interesting" (and this holds true for the Cypriot flag). But against the argument that "Manas was an Armenian musician, as in he made Armenian music", I have nothing to say. If this has implications regarding the musical composition of the anthem and possible inspirations of Manas etc., I do agree it is significant and am all for further expansion, not only leaving the detail on his background there. --GGT (talk) 22:42, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edgar Manas and others 

message: Ulusun is from the root "ulu" which means mighty/great. It is not the verb "ulumak" which means howl. The verb conjugated as "ulusun" would mean "let it howl" which believe me it sounds as weird in Turkish as it does in English. I have a gut feeling this is a cheap attempt by a nationalist trying to insert Turkic elements into the anthem like the wolf. The most obvious translation is "You are mighty/great, don't be afraid / don't fear" which makes a lot more sense that "Let it howl, don't be afraid". Let WHAT howl? It makes no sense. If we are considering every possible meaning of the word "ulusun" we can also consider ulus-un which would make the sentence "Your nation/people, don't be afraid" which despite still being much less likely than "you are mighty/great" translation, still makes more sense than "Let it howl".
Is it okay to just add personal translations to this page without any source? Maybe we can find an official translation somewhere. Until then I'm changing it to "You are mighty". 
Edit: There are many parts of the translation that aren't perfect. Here are a few other examples:
* Fear not; For the crimson banner that proudly ripples in this glorious dawn, shall not fade - original doesn't say "proudly"
* Before the last fiery hearth that is ablaze within my homeland is extinguished. - ocak means stove/furnace/fireplace, did you mean "fiery heart" to sound poetic, or did you just mean "hearth" which means "the floor of a fireplace"? Either ways "fiery hearth" is wrong.
* For that is the star of my people, and it will forever shine - original doesn't say "forever"
* It is mine; and solely belongs to my valiant nation. - original doesn't say "valiant"
* I'll tear apart mountains, exceed the Expanses6 and still gush out! - "still" is extra here
* You are mighty8 , do not be afraid! And think: how can this fiery faith ever be extinguished, - "And think:" is extra here
* Render your chest as armour and your body as bulwark! - This is a bad translation, but I don't know how to improve it. "Siper et" means to "guard with / cover with" in a sense. "Siper" has many meanings like trench in war, shield, bulwark, etc. It says "Use you body as a shield" or "guard with you body". "Chest as armour" part is not in the orginal.
* For soon shall come the joyous days of divine promise; - original doesn't say joyous
* And think about the shroudless10 thousands who lie so nobly beneath you. - original doesn't say "so nobly"
* You're the glorious son of a martyr - take shame, grieve not your ancestors! - original doesn't say "glorious" and doesn't say "take shame". It says "You're the son of a martyr, it's a pity/shame/sin (hard to translate yazıktır) ,grieve not your ancestors". It's a hard to translate sentence.
* No heathen's hand should ever touch the bosom of my sacred Temples. - sacred is extra here, but translating "mabed" as "sacred temple" is fine I guess.
* These adhans and their testimonies are the foundations of my religion, - Should be These adhans WHOSE testimonies / testimonies OF WHICH ...""
* And may their noble sound prevail thunderously across my eternal homeland. - After the fix above, it should be "shall prevail thunderously across my eternal homeland". Also there is a comma between "Ebedi" and "yurdumun" which makes me think it is not the adjective of "yurdumun". It might actually be used like the adverb "ebediyen" meaning "forever/eternally".
* For only then, shall my fatigued tombstone, if there is one, prostrate11 a thousand times in ecstasy, - very cool and poetic but the original says "then my (tomb)stone, if there is one, shall prostate a thousand times in ecstasy". Also the next two lines don't need "And" at the beginning.
* Perhaps only then, shall I peacefully ascend and at long last reach the heavens. - original doesn't say "at long last"
* So ripple and wave like the bright dawning sky, oh thou glorious crescent, - Why do you have "So" in the beginning? "like the bright dawning sky" is a bit extra but it's fine to translate "şafaklar" that way I guess. 
* So that our every last drop of blood may finally be blessed and worthy! Again, why do you start with "So that"? "dökülen kanlarımın" is singular first person, not plural. The translation should be "May all of my spilled blood (every last drop of blood is a good translation actually) be worthy/blessed/halal". Helal olsun is hard to translate. When you gain something from someone, perhaps unfairly, you say "hakkını helal et" which means roughly "make what's your right halal/allowed (as opposed to haram) for me", it is used similarly here. He says he would have no regrets about the blood he gave, he would make it halal for everyone.
* For freedom is the absolute right of my ever-free flag; - "absolute" is extra. Why do you start with "For"? It doesn't say "çünkü hakkıdır ...". It is a new sentence, it isn't continuing from the last sentence.
* For independence is the absolute right of my God-worshipping5 nation! - Like the above, shouldn't start with "For" and "absolute" is extra.
* Finally, "göğüs" is translated as "bosom" in multiple instances, I think it should be "chest" instead.
Homorebelus (talk) 11:23, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation - "ulusun" and other bad translations 

message: The formatting of the poem is now a mess, especially the Ottoman part. It was better a few weeks ago, when although the table was wide, the lines weren't split into two. Can it be reverted to that earlier form? To make more room, the sound file can be put centrally, not on the side. Kanjuzi (talk) 17:43, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Formatting of poem 

message: The Phonetic Transcription (though the editor has obviously gone into a lot of time and trouble over it) doesn't seem to me to be useful. It is far easier to read the Turkish writing. I suggest this section be deleted. Kanjuzi (talk) 05:25, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Phonetic transcription