Talk:Sham Ennessim

message: Shamm al-Nessim is only celebrated in Egypt and Sudan but that unfortunately, there is no definite evidence of its existence in ancient Egypt. I am going to remove the fake evidence that is provided in this article. --41.238.140.187 (talk) 05:17, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  existence in ancient Egypt

message: According to the Egyptian newsletter from the Baseera Center - "Number of the day" Issue Number 1148 from monday April 17th 2017 - the following was stated:
Ancient Egyptians first celebrated “Sham El- Nessim” around 2700 BC towards the end of the Third Dynasty and regarded the day as the beginning of time. 
Baseera  quotes as its scource: Al-Ahram Newspaper.
newsletter@baseeraegypt.com  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8389:4000:C900:95B6:6FE6:A336:1641 (talk) 14:45, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sham El-Nessim 

message: I engaged with the user Zack439 assuming good faith, starting back in 5 April 2021, when he made what appeared to be an ideological edit, and I should mention at the outset that at every step I addressed all his claims, both in the content itself with reliable sources and in the edit summaries, and I asked him to corroborate his claims with historical sources since the issue/context is a historical one, and that an article written on some website or on a religious website doesn't suffice in this context, since it doesn't cite any credible historical sources, but Zack439 kept ignoring every point that I have raised, and did not provide any reliable sources for his claims. I also incorporated a source that he himself provided. And, when he failed to provide proper historical sources for his claims, I provided a reliable historical source from the early 1800s that reports on Sham Ennessim, and provided clear quotes from the source, but Zack439 kept deleting the sources, the quotes, removed an entire section and eventually corrupted the article, which I pointed out to him in the edit summaries but he kept ignoring them. Perhaps Zack439 is not aware that properly cited content from reliable sources (WP:RS) on Wikipedia should not be removed just to push a single ideological point of view? Or perhaps he doesn't know what constitutes a reliable source?
Zack439 claimed that the festival was initiated during modernity, so I provided the historical source that reports on its celebration in the early 1800s, that reports on how it is was calculated, as well as shows that the festival is not at all Abrahamic/Christian in nature, and I remained neutral in using that source, without drawing strong conclusions. And, a distinction between being a "national festival" and being declared by the Egyptian state as an "official holiday" was made; since the Egyptian state was officially founded in modernity, to say that the festival was declared as an official holidy during modernity is redundant, and it can be redundantly said about every single official holiday in Egypt. Zack439 claimed that the festival has no continuity with Shemu, so I provided an authoritative linguistic/etymological source that shows that the Coptic name originated from "Shemu". Zack439 made claims about the food eaten on this day, so I provided a reliable source that reports on the significance of the food eaten on this day, and that the same food that was eaten by the ancient Egyptians on this day is still eaten by the Egyptians today during the celebration, and that source also corroborates the festival's origin from Shemu. He kept ignoring every single point I have raised still, and every single response to his claims, and kept deleting the sources. I also pointed out to Zack439 that using "Copts" as distinct from "Egyptians" in this context is ideological and redundant.
Zack439 started to make claims about how the Muslim Egyptians sometimes celebrate Christmas, or other Christian festivals, so I indicated to him that this doesn't address the issue, and it doesn't bear on Sham Ennessim, since the other festivals he mentioned are exclusively Christian, I also indicated to him that what is needed is a historical source that reports on Sham Ennessim itself, not other festivals, but Zack439 continued to ignore my points yet again and removed the credible source that I have provided along with the cited content, replacing them with an online article about Christmas and an answered question on a religious website that do not have any historical credibility and do not cite any historical sources.
At a certain point I hinted to Zack439 that his edits are starting to seem not to be in good faith. And, when he repeatedly corrupted the article, I hinted to him that this is to be considered vandalism, since he repeatedly removed an entire section with the sources, after I asked him not to.
In the edits Zack439 made on 2 May 2021, he added sources that do not mention Sham Ennessim at all, and again added statements about other festivals that are exclusively Christian, he also removed the historical and linguistic sources that I have provided, and removed the quotes from them again. He did however mention that the Khamaseen is not always synchronized with the day after Easter, which is correct, but that still doesn't change the fact that Sham Ennessim is historically reported as being observed specifically on the first day of the Khamaseen, and not on the day after Easter, and that the same source reports on Easter Sunday without relating Sham Ennessim to it in any way, as I indicated in the article with the quotes, which constitutes properly cited content that shouldn't have been removed by Zack439; I also remarked on the desynchronization in the article itself, without drawing strong conclusions; actually, in the absence of historical sources earlier than Lane, that remark on the desynchronization between the Khamaseen and the day immediately following Easter coupled with Lane's report works against Zack439's claims. Zack439 still removed the sources, the quotes, and removed the linguistic source from the "History" section, which he corrupted, along with other sources, so that he can allow himself the erroneous claim that the festival is not related to Shemu, ignoring thus the sources that were provided, which is a dishonest practice.
This discussion about what is Christian/Abrahamic and what isn't is quite otiose; Zack439 should stop pretending that we don't know what is Christian/Abrahamic and what isn't, specially when he is confronted by credible historical and linguistic sources, while all he has are online articles and an answered question on a religious website which do not cite any historical sources whatsover. Zack439 is also trying now to mask the link to the religious website (which he explicitly added before) in a form that makes it seem as  an authentic publication, I consider this to be quite deceptive. Needless to mention that, along with what I mentioned, his edits are unencyclopedic both in content and language, and are not WP:NPOV. For the reasons mentioned above, my last edit will be restored, while waiting for the article to be saved from the user Zack439. 197.38.254.174 (talk) 21:37, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: PLEASE rewrite this message with proper paragraphs... Per WP:INTERSPERSE - RichT|C|E-Mail 22:12, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regarding the edits by the user "Zack439", which I consider to be purely ideological 

message: Zack439 here. By that standard any book published on Egypt including those from the 1800s can be quoted regardless if the quotes are accurate. Again you haven’t provided an adequate explanation hence why I continue to repeat myself. You’re using those quotes to prove this current holiday has continuity that traces all the way to the pharaonic era, so it is entirely relevant to provide an adequate explanation to substantiate it. Again the report you cited from 1834 claims that this holiday of Sham Ennesim is observed on the first day of Khamaseen & it just happens to immediately follow the Coptic Easter Sunday festival according to the report. I’ve provided you with two studies one from 2009 & the other from 2014 which claim the first day of Khamaseen is at the end of March https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mustafa-Al-Kuisi/publication/222814007_Characterization_of_the_Khamaseen_Spring_Dust_in_Jordan/links/5b67ab5d299bf1b9303ca43c/Characterization-of-the-Khamaseen-Spring-Dust-in-Jordan.pdf https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/234685858.pdf & have shown historical trend data for Easter which shows Orthodox Julian Calendar(which the Coptic Orthodox Church follows for Easter) Easter dates the majority time does not fall at the end of March http://5ko.free.fr/en/easter.php?y=19 which means this holiday is usually not observed on the first day of Khamaseen refuting EW Lane’s claim on this. This historical trend data & the two studies I’ve provided refute EW Lanes 1834 report on this. Even in 1834 it didn’t fall on the first day of Khamaseen. Another problem is the EW Lane report claims Muslims of Egypt calculate the date to be at the start of the Khamaseen which happens to follow Coptic Easter. Two problems with this first even in 1834 Coptic Easter was not at the end of March & same case for the majority of documented dates for this Easter in the data http://5ko.free.fr/en/easter.php?y=19 the second problem with this is the you have not provided an adequate explanation for how Muslims of Egypt CURRENTLY choose the date. I asked you how did they come up with the date May 3 for 2021? How did they come up with April 20 for 2020? How did they come up with April 29 for 2019? How did they come up with April 9 for 2018? How did they come up with April 17 for 2017? How did they come up with May 2 for 2016? And said if the claim is they used to calculate it this way & do not calculate it to be in the first day of Khamaseen anymore, that means lack of continuity with the current holiday since they would not be following their supposed traditional pharaonic date for celebration. If the claim is they just follow the Coptic Easter Monday date, that means it is inextricably connected to the Coptic fasting schedule & not independent from Coptic Easter Monday. These are questions & rebuttals I’ve yet to receive an adequate answer from you. To substantiate the notion of its date being independent from Coptic Easter Monday & Lane’s claim, you need to provide an adequate explanation to my questions & rebuttals. If the you can’t, then clearly you don’t care about the truth & you are primarily ideologically motivated. Not date driven or evidence driven.
== rebuttal part 2 ==
Coptic Orthodox HG Bishop Youssef is the only one from a Coptic Orthodox/religious site. The rest of the sources are not but they do corroborate his point about it being linked to Easter & the fasting schedule of the Holy Great Fast in the Coptic calendar, hence why it is always on Easter Monday and not always on the first day of Khamaseen. I provided valid historical sources & environmental science study. The report from the 1834 which you quoted is addressed with a 2009 published environmental science study I cited. Lane in 1834 claimed that Muslims calculate it based on the first day of Khamaseen & it is observed on the first day of Khamaseen. The problem with those claims is they are scientifically not correct. The first day of Khamaseen is not synchronized with Easter Monday. The study I provided shows that the first day of Khamaseen tends is in late March. “The term Khamaseen signifies that the dust storms are repeated several times during a period of around 50 days starting late March and ending in early May.” Abed, Abdulkader M., et al. “Characterization of the Khamaseen (Spring) Dust in Jordan.” Atmospheric Environment, vol. 43, no. 18, 2009, pp. 2868–76. The 2021 Coptic Easter is early May. This shows it is not on the first day of Khamaseen as the sources you quoted say. Your source made a scientific claim & thus you need to substantiate it with scientific data which you have failed to do thus far. To substantiate Lane’s claim in the 1834 source you quoted you need to provide a environmental science study refuting mine which shows that indeed that the first day of Khamaseen happens to be Easter Monday. You haven’t provided this. 
As for the source by Falola, Toyin, and Daniel Jean-Jacques. Africa [3 Volumes]: An Encyclopedia of Culture and Society. Illustrated, ABC-CLIO, 2015, see page 393, I didn’t misrepresent the source. I made the claim & cited the source to support.   https://www.google.com/books/edition/Africa_An_Encyclopedia_of_Culture_and_So/YjoVCwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22This+holiday+has+more+meaning+for+the+Coptic+Christians+than+for+the+majority+Muslim+Egyptians+because+Sham+el-Nessim+coincides+with+the+Easter+celebration&pg=PA393&printsec=frontcover
But If you have a problem with how I connect the claim & citing the source to support, I can just quote directly. 
Now I’ve said from the beginning that historical & traditional “sham Ennesim” was a part of Coptic Easter & not inseparable from it. For non-christians if you remove the part about celebrating the resurrection of Christ, what you end up with is outdoor activities like outside gatherings eating food outside & so on, on Easter Monday. That’s literally it. Outdoor activities in association with public Easter celebrations are attested in the medieval sources. They don’t need to specify Sham Ennesim explicitly because my point is outdoor activities on Easter Monday are just a component of Coptic Easter. On the contrary the lack of attesting of a religious-neutral spring festival that is independent Easter in the medieval sources refutes claims in your sources which claim otherwise. What is attested in medieval sources are public celebrations of Easter and the Easter holiday. Since “Sham Ennesim” is an extension of Easter, as Copts have traditional believed “Although Copts treat Spring Day as an extension of Easter” https://english.alarabiya.net/perspective/features/2015/04/06/Coptic-Easter-How-Egypt-celebrates-the-rising-of-Christ the medieval sources support Copts approach to this holiday in not distinguishing it from Easter. Thus It is implied that it is included in when Easter is attested in the medieval sources & its public celebration. Again There is no evidence from medieval sources of a non-christian version of this spring festival. Taqi al Din Ahmed Ali ibn al Maqrîzi provides a list of festivals that were celebrated in Egypt, he mentions Easter and does mention that Easter celebrations included outdoor activities but he makes no mention of a non-Christian version of Sham Ennessim  Les fêtes des Coptes' Patrologia Orientalis 10 (1915) pp. 314-343, Werthmuller, Kurt J. Coptic Identity and Ayyubid Politics in Egypt, 1218-1250. American Univ in Cairo Press, 2010 pp. 35, https://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Al-Maqrizi-Coptic_Feast_Days_Alcock2015.pdf 
As for the linguistics & etymology, that is simply the reality. Just because the Coptic word Shom is gets its etymology from the word šmw does not mean Shom Ennisim & the pharaonic festival of Shemu are the same thing. That is wrong. Again etymological link of a word does not mean they are the same thing. Coptic Saint Amun has the same name as a ancient Egyptian god but they are not the same person. Coptic Saint Wadamoun name means “special for Amun the Egyptian god” but he has nothing to do with the ancient Egypt god.
== Rebuttal ==  
I’ll be concise in part A for those who don’t want to read all this & specify in detail in part B
Part A) To prove continuity you need Medieval sources attesting to the celebration of pharaonic non-Christian spring festival celebrated independently from Easter. You also need a environmental science study which shows that the first day of Khamaseen is synchronized with Easter Monday. You have not provided either of this.
Part B) I addressed the claims which include the source you cited from 1834 and I provided adequate explanations for everything. I only provided one religious based source written by HG Bishop Youssef, he is corroborating with the reliable historical sources I provided. I believe the one ideological driven is you since you continue to peddle the claim by Lane 1834 about Sham Ennesim coinciding with the first day of Khamaseen, I’ve proven Lane’s claim to be wrong by citing a published 2009 Environmental science study which shows Khamaseen starts in late March. This means it is not synchronized with Easter Monday because Easter Monday is not fixed at late March. For example for 2021 Sham Ennesim is on the third of May, this means it is not on the first day of Khamaseen & thus Lane is wrong.  https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mustafa-Al-Kuisi/publication/222814007_Characterization_of_the_Khamaseen_Spring_Dust_in_Jordan/links/5b67ab5d299bf1b9303ca43c/Characterization-of-the-Khamaseen-Spring-Dust-in-Jordan.pdf
From what I’ve seen the medieval sources do not mention “Sham Ennessim” explicitly and as something separate from Easter. That’s the point. Outdoor activities in association with Easter is mentioned & Easter is on the list of those mentioned by Maqrizi. https://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Al-Maqrizi-Coptic_Feast_Days_Alcock2015.pdf No independent religious-neutral spring festival mentioned by medieval sources for Egypt. Page 35 in “Coptic Identity and Ayyubid Politics in Egypt, 1218-1250” a medieval historian is quoted where he mentions public celebration of Easter festivals. For Christian Copts “Sham Ennesim” are activities done as a part of Easter because as it says here “Although Copts treat Spring Day as an extension of Easter“ https://english.alarabiya.net/perspective/features/2015/04/06/Coptic-Easter-How-Egypt-celebrates-the-rising-of-Christ My argument from the beginning is historically and traditionally the meaning behind this festival was about celebrating the resurrection of Christ and thus it was historically seen as an extension of Easter, hence the outdoor activities in association with Easter. Which is why on page 393 in the book  “Falola, Toyin, and Daniel Jean-Jacques. Africa [3 Volumes]: An Encyclopedia of Culture and Society. Illustrated, ABC-CLIO, 2015” Copts historically preserved it & celebrated it as part of celebration of the resurrection. Hence we see Easter mentioned & outdoor activities in association with Easter mentioned in medieval sources but no religious-neutral spring festival on easter Monday that is independent from Easter mentioned in the medieval sources. Again this modern news article says “Although Copts treat Spring Day as an extension of Easter“ https://english.alarabiya.net/perspective/features/2015/04/06/Coptic-Easter-How-Egypt-celebrates-the-rising-of-Christ the thing is the tradition of Copts treating it as an extension of Easter is the only tradition in regards to this spring festival that is attested in the medieval sources because the only Easter Monday spring festivities mentioned in those sources are linked to Easter. Is there a medieval source that mentions a spring festival around the time of Easter Monday and that is independent from Easter and religious-neutral? If yes you need to provide it and prove it. Again that is why it always falls on Easter Monday. It does not always fall on the first day of Khamaseen. I provided a environmental science study which says Khamaseen starts in end of March, the problem is Easter Monday is not synchronized with that. https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mustafa-Al-Kuisi/publication/222814007_Characterization_of_the_Khamaseen_Spring_Dust_in_Jordan/links/5b67ab5d299bf1b9303ca43c/Characterization-of-the-Khamaseen-Spring-Dust-in-Jordan.pdf
For example 2021 Easter Monday is on the third of May. To substantiate the claim by EW Lane 1834 you need to provide an environmental science study which shows that the first day of Khamaseen is synchronized with Coptic Easter Monday.
     As for the linguistic argument, it still doesn’t prove Shemu and Sham Ennesim are the same thing. Because just because šmw provides the etymology for ϣⲱⲙ that doesn’t mean they are referring to the same event or thing. Even if the names were exactly the same, that still wouldn’t mean they are referring to the same thing. For example there is a Coptic Saint known as St. Amun (Ⲁⲙⲟⲩⲛ). His feast day is on 20 Pashons(Ⲡⲁϣⲟⲛⲥ) in the Coptic calendar. As you see he shares the same name as the pharaonic god Amun but clearly a different person.  Regnault, L., 2021. Amun, Saint. Ccdl.claremont.edu. Sharing the same name or being linked etymologically by name doesn’t mean it is the same person or event.
     Furthermore the reason I provided evidence of Muslims historically celebrating Christian holidays & Muslims celebrating Christmas was to show they do celebrate things that are Christian in origin. Just because they celebrate festivities that are Christian in origin does not mean they are not Christian in origin.
== Zack439 here ==
Based on my discussions with the user I’m having a dispute with it is clear the user is deeply & primarily ideologically motivated & not date driven. He quotes Lanes 1834 report which says “A custom termed 'Shemm en-Neseem' [sic.] (or the Smelling of the Zephyr) is observed on the first day of the Khamaseen” yet two studies, one from 2014 & one from 2009 claim that Khamaseen starts at the end of March. "Between the end of March and the middle of May, hot winds, laden with dust (Khamaseen) blow in from the south and southwest." https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/234685858.pdf The study is describing a time interval. So the first day or start of Khamaseen would be around the end of March according to this study. And for the study of 2009 it says “The term Khamaseen signifies that the dust storms are repeated several times during a period of around 50 days starting late March and ending in early May” https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mustafa-Al-Kuisi/publication/222814007_Characterization_of_the_Khamaseen_Spring_Dust_in_Jordan/links/5b67ab5d299bf1b9303ca43c/Characterization-of-the-Khamaseen-Spring-Dust-in-Jordan.pdf 
     This is a problem because the historical dates for Easter for those who use the Orthodox Julian calendar system(which the Coptic Orthodox Church follows) shows that this holiday is usually not at the end of March which even includes the 1834 time of Lane as well http://5ko.free.fr/en/easter.php?y=19 The only consistency that is congruent with the data in Lane’s 1834 report for this is that it immediately follows Coptic festival of Easter Sunday.  Based on the composite of the data, this means this holiday always follows Coptic festival of Easter Sunday & usually not on the first day of Khamaseen.
     Another problem is this user has not explained how Muslims today choose the date. This question is entirely relevant to this discussion because the user is claiming the CURRENT holiday TODAY has continuity that traces all the way to the Pharaonic era. Now Lane claims in his 1834 report “they [the Muslims of Egypt] calculate the period of the 'Khamaseen,' when hot southerly winds are of frequent occurrence, to commence on the day immediately following the Coptic festival of Easter Sunday." So I asked the user how did Muslims come up with the date May 3 for 2021? How did Muslims come up with April 20 for 2020? How did Muslims come up with April 29 for 2019? How did Muslims come up with April 9 for 2018? How did Muslims come up with April 17 for 2017? How did Muslims come up with May 2 for 2016? If the claim is they used to calculate it this way & do not calculate it to be in the first day of Khamaseen anymore, that means lack of continuity with the current holiday since they would not be following their supposed traditional date for celebration. If the claim is they just follow the Coptic Easter Monday date, that means it is inextricably connected to the Coptic fasting schedule & not independent from Coptic Easter Monday. I haven’t received an adequate explanation for this.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zack439 (talk • contribs) 06:40, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: rebuttal part 3 =

message: Based on my discussions with the user I’m having a dispute with it is clear the user is deeply & primarily ideologically motivated & not date driven. He quotes Lanes 1834 report which says “A custom termed 'Shemm en-Neseem' [sic.] (or the Smelling of the Zephyr) is observed on the first day of the Khamaseen” yet two studies, one from 2014 & one from 2009 claim that Khamaseen starts at the end of March. "Between the end of March and the middle of May, hot winds, laden with dust (Khamaseen) blow in from the south and southwest." https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/234685858.pdf The study is describing a time interval. So the first day or start of Khamaseen would be around the end of March according to this study. And for the study of 2009 it says “The term Khamaseen signifies that the dust storms are repeated several times during a period of around 50 days starting late March and ending in early May” https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mustafa-Al-Kuisi/publication/222814007_Characterization_of_the_Khamaseen_Spring_Dust_in_Jordan/links/5b67ab5d299bf1b9303ca43c/Characterization-of-the-Khamaseen-Spring-Dust-in-Jordan.pdf 
     This is a problem because the historical dates for Easter for those who use the Orthodox Julian calendar system(which the Coptic Orthodox Church follows) shows that this holiday is usually not at the end of March which even includes the 1834 time of Lane as well http://5ko.free.fr/en/easter.php?y=19 The only consistency that is congruent with the data in Lane’s 1834 report for this is that it immediately follows Coptic festival of Easter Sunday.  Based on the composite of the data, this means this holiday always follows Coptic festival of Easter Sunday & usually not on the first day of Khamaseen.
     Another problem is this user has not explained how Muslims today choose the date. This question is entirely relevant to this discussion because the user is claiming the CURRENT holiday TODAY has continuity that traces all the way to the Pharaonic era. Now Lane claims in his 1834 report “they [the Muslims of Egypt] calculate the period of the 'Khamaseen,' when hot southerly winds are of frequent occurrence, to commence on the day immediately following the Coptic festival of Easter Sunday." So I asked the user how did Muslims come up with the date May 3 for 2021? How did Muslims come up with April 20 for 2020? How did Muslims come up with April 29 for 2019? How did Muslims come up with April 9 for 2018? How did Muslims come up with April 17 for 2017? How did Muslims come up with May 2 for 2016? If the claim is they used to calculate it this way & do not calculate it to be in the first day of Khamaseen anymore, that means lack of continuity with the current holiday since they would not be following their supposed traditional date for celebration. If the claim is they just follow the Coptic Easter Monday date, that means it is inextricably connected to the Coptic fasting schedule & not independent from Coptic Easter Monday. I haven’t received an adequate explanation for this.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zack439 (talk • contribs) 06:40, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Zack439 here 

message: The title of the user Zack439's last section is "I have not received an adequate explanation to my questions", which is the section I'm referring to.
No one is claiming that currently the festival does not fall on the day after Easter or currently calculated independently; the user Zack439's statement is misleading.
The user Zack439's other points have already been addressed above (in the section titled: Regarding the edits by the user "Zack439",...). In particular, it has been mentioned that what is disputed is not how the first day of the Khamaseen is currently calculated, among other things that addressed the claims about this.
The user Zack439's edits are a massive WP:OR throughout, are unencyclopedic, and do not conform to WP:NPOV, among other things that are quite obvious. He is using sources that do not mention Sham Ennessim at all, and that only mention other festivals that are exclusively Christian, for instance. Please refer to the section (titled: Regarding the edits made by the user "Zack439",...) for a detailed discussion of the points which the user Zack439 keeps repeating. For reference, here is a link to the current article that is being defended against the user Zack439: Current. 197.38.46.131 (talk) 04:40, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  The user Zack439's points in the last section he started have been already addressed 

message: The claims about the desynchronization have been addressed already several times (see the section titled: Regarding the edits by the user "Zack439",..." above), and it is stated in the article that the festival falls on Easter Monday, as I already mentioned. Again, to simply say that "Lane is wrong" is a misunderstanding of the guidelines of Wikipedia and of proper citation (WP:RS, WP:NPOV), and a misunderstanding of what Wikipedia is and what it is not for (WP:NOR). Also, E. W. Lane is a standard reference in the field.
Now of course some features of Sham Ennessim are indeed quite superstitious, they are just not Abrahamic, as it originates from Shemu [Asante, p.75]. E. W. Lane doesn't describe "the custom" as "religious or superstitious nature at particular periods of the religious almanac of the Copts" as the user Zack439 has stated (the user Zack439 should not try to be manipulative, he won't get away with it); here is what Lane states: "it is remarkable that the Muslims of Egypt observe certain customs of a religious or superstitious nature at particular periods of the religious almanac of the Copts". This statement in Lane, that "certain costums of religious or superstitious nature" are observed "at particular periods of the religious almanac of the Copts", is an indication that whatever those "customs of religious or superstitious nature" are, they were thought of as separate from the religious almanac of the Coptic Christians, since Lane states that one is observed at periods of the religious almanac of the other, not that one is the other; as you can see, Lane doesn't say "the custom", not that it would have made any difference. After that sentence Lane goes on to tell us that the Khamaseen is calculated to "commence on the day immediately following the Coptic festival of Easter Sunday". Then in his report on Sham Ennessim, he reports that is it observed specifically on the first day of the Khamaseen. These are things represented with the quotes in the article. So, the user Zack439 should move on from this and stop repeating it over and over.
Every single other point the user Zack439 keeps repeating has also been addressed above several times. Again, the user Zack439 is extremely repetitive and dismissive, and his edits are a massive WP:OR throughout, are unencyclopedic, and do not conform to WP:NPOV, among other things that are quite obvious.
For reference, here is a link to the current article that is being defended against the user Zack439: Current.
Now here is what I offer as a compromise, based on the 1911 book that the user Zack439 just provided; but before offering the compromise, let me first point out that the user Zack439 is being dishonest regarding the quote from the 1911 book, he has not provided the quote in full, which is quite deceptive, and you are just about to know why he left out the rest of the quote. The 1911 book [Sladen, Douglas (1911). Oriental Cairo.] refers to it in the chapter titled "Arab Bank Holiday: the Shem-en-Nesim", since the author of this book was referring to the Muslim Egyptians as "Arabs by religion but not by race" [Sladen, p. 123], as a: "Christian feast held on the Easter Monday of the Copts and Greeks; but the Arabs all keep it, and everyone goes out into the country for a picnic on that day, because the Shem-en-Nesim is supposed to mark the beginning of the season of the Khamsin, the dreaded hot winds" [Sladen, p. 121]. The user Zack439 left these parts out, of course, he stopped at "...of the Copts", and left out the rest of the quote, which is extremely deceptive!
So, this book is also referring to it as marking the beginning of the Khamaseen, which is consistent with the much earlier report by E. W. Lane (1834).
Based on this book, and based on the fact that E. W. Lane predates this 1911 book by almost a century, I offer the following edit that represents both sources.
I don't mind extending this existing paragraph:
Thus, even though the festival falls on Easter Monday, which is the case for historical reasons, not religious/Abrahamic ones, as illustrated above, it does not have more meaning for the Christian Egyptians than it does for the Muslim Egyptians, or for any other Egyptian outside those two faiths, since the festival is non-Abrahamic in nature, it pertains in meaning neither to Christianity nor to Islam.
To the following paragraph that represents both sources:
Thus, even though the festival falls on Easter Monday, which is the case for historical reasons, not religious/Abrahamic ones, as illustrated above, it does not have more meaning for the Christian Egyptians than it does for the Muslim Egyptians, or for any other Egyptian outside those two faiths, since the festival is non-Abrahamic in nature, as it originates from Shemu,[2] it pertains in meaning neither to Christianity nor to Islam. However, without taking the festival's origins into account, it came to have more religious meaning for the Christian Egyptians, because it falls on Easter Monday, which is not religiously meaningful for the Muslim Egyptians.[4] About a century after E. W. Lane's report (1834), the festival has also been described as following in a later book from the early 20th-century (1911), which referred to it as a "Christian feast" in the chapter titled "An Arab Bank Holiday: the Shem-en-Nesim", since the author of this book was referring to the Muslim Egyptians as "Arabs by religion but not by race"[Sladen, p. 123]:
"Shem-en-Nesim means 'The Smelling of the Zephyr,' and it is a Christian feast held on the Easter Monday of the Copts and Greeks; but the Arabs all keep it, and everyone goes out into the country for a picnic on that day, because the Shem-en-Nesim is supposed to mark the beginning of the season of the Khamsin, the dreaded hot winds."[Sladen, p. 121]
It should be noted that this early 20th-century book also reports on the festival as marking the beginning of the season of the Khamaseen (Khamsin), which is consistent with the much earlier report by E. W. Lane (1834).
This legitimate compromise, however, has to be implemented without any attempts at manipulation or deception, like the attempts of the user Zack439 throughout his edits, and with transparent citations using the available clickable links as above. The user Zack439 should refrain from edit-warring, and should keep in mind that Wikipedia is built through consensus and WP:NPOV, as long as the sources are WP:RS; edit-warring will not lead anywhere, it doesn't work on Wikipedia. The user Zack439 has also been told countless times to stop being extremely repetitive and dismissive; the user Zack439 should also stop using deceptive section titles on the talk page here, just like his deceptive edit summaries and deceptive quotes. I believe this is a compromise that should satisfy the user Zack439. 197.38.46.131 (talk) 18:37, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  What the user Zack439 is saying has been addressed already; I'll provide the full quote from his new source, and I'll offer a compromise 

message: @197.38.254.174 and @Zack439, I have re-ordered the article and restored its Encyclopedic style. I moved the information you recently added into special sections under history. Also, please do not write too-long paragraphs.
While I understand the importance of the argument about Islamic/christian involvement in determining the date of the festival, this flood of information should not be in the introduction, and that is why I created new sections to accomodate the info.
Also, the date of the festival is now determined by the coptic church for historical reasons, so this is the kind of information that should go in the intro. If you want to argue that historically it was related to Khamaseen (because of the poor reference you have), this should go in history section.
The fact that the date is determined by the coptic church does not imply that it is a Christian feast. The intro says clearly that it is a Pharaohnic feast preserved through generations, but it needs to be after Easter so that Christians can celebrate it after the 40-day fasting, and this has been the case since Roman Egypt was officially christianized. Ramses Nagib (talk) 19:58, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Keep the religious war off the article 

message: I propose that this article be renamed to Sham Al Nassim or Sham El Nassim, as to more accurately represent its pronunciation in Egyptian Arabic,  where the Al/El is more pronounced. I understand that the current name originates from Coptic, but this should be mentioned in the alternative names area, not as the full name of the article.  Nyxession (talk) 11:15, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name of the Article 

message: This article has multiple issues with unfounded claims about the origin and etymology of this fairly modern Egyptian festival with almost all references pointing to one unreliable source (Asante, Molefi Kete (2002)) which cites no references for its claims. This reference should be removed and unsupported claims also removed. As it is this page is spreading misinformation.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.108.178.222 (talk) 10:10, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Multiple issues - currently spreading misinformation