Talk:Cheongsam

message: I'm confused by the frequent use of the word "cheongsam" in the article, despite the article being titled "qipao".  The article should use whatever term is the most common, and then that should be the term used throughout the article, to avoid confusion.  Then, in the part on Kill Bill, it says that the costume designer must have confused a qipao and a cheongsam?  If the concepts of cheongsams and qipaos are different enough, they should be two separate articles.  --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 18:20, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)
:The recent addition was not very accurate to my knowledge.  Qipao and Cheongsam are similar, but there are some differences and overlaps.  The recent changes mixed them all up.
:The original Qipao was a Manchu's traditional dress, so it probably dated back to even before the Qing dynasty.  Qipao (modern) is also the Chinese words (Hong Kong Cantonese) for Cheongsam (the English loan word).
:Cheongsam (the original Cantonese Chinese word, not the specific English word) means long dress (chang2shan1 in pinyin) which is the generic terms to cover both the mens and womens dress in that style.
:Cheongsam (the English loan word) probably has the etymology from Hong Kong Cantonese which refers to the modern sexy cut Qipao made in the British colony that were originally from Shanghai.  Modern Hong Kong people still call this Qipao formally, but Cheongsam informally.  
:The mens dress is always called Cheongsam, not Qipao.
:The recent addition in the article also mixed in some mainland China information regarding the banning of the sexy cut Cheongsam after the conservative communist government took control. The confusion starts to build up when the English loan word Cheongsam (sexy kind) is explained as the Chinese word chang2shan1, and its relation to the original century old Qipao and the currently Hong Kong usage of the word Qipao, and the Mainland usage of word Qipao are all blended together.  I think this article is a mess because each contributor was actually talking about a different item when they write about Qipao or Cheongsam.  
:To clean up the mess, whoever write this article should be aware of multiple dimensions of these terminologies as follows:
:*the English word Cheongsam verses the Chinese word changshan. (the English word is specific, the Chinese word is generic)
:*the Hong Kong usage verses the Mainland usage. (the HK usage is relevant because the English word Cheongsam came from Hong Kong Cantonese)
:*the mens cheongsam verses womens qipao
:*the different stages of the evolution of this dress over the years, namely: 
:**the original traditional century-old Manchu style, (Qipao)
:**the conservative 1910s New China era style, (changshan)
:**the sexy western influenced pre-communist Shanghai style, (note many Qipao tailors fleed to Hong Kong during/after the civil war.)
:**the sexier Western influenced British colonial Hong Kong style, (Cheongsam in English, Qipao or Cheung Saam in Chinese)
:**the Maoist sexless everybody-is-your-comrade style. (need help from wikipedian in Mainland China to expand on this.)
:This mess requires good English to fix.  I don't think I qualify for the job.  I just hope my explanation above clear things up a bit.
:Kowloonese 01:25, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)
::But you got information required to rewrite it. Some English speaking native can then proofread it? 
::What I came to comment here about was the remark about Kill Bill. It's speculation without reference that they didn't do it on purpose and make a female character seem more masculine and strong, by dressing her in male costume. Is there a way to get a source for this? -- Suviko from fiWikipedia
:As someone whose family still wears cheongsam for special occassions, cheongsam is used for both the mens and female versions with qipao being used only the female version. But saying that, we can look at Kimono as an example, kimono strictly applies to both men's and female versions, but is popularly seen as applying only to the female version in the West, by including both in the same article the reader can be informed of the reality. One has to ask what an average user expects to find when entering Cheonsam into the search box, and if this hypothetical user will know to search for qipao when looking for the female dress? KTo288 14:45, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why not just put one of those lines up top saying "This article is about the men's version, if you're looking for women's version, go to qipao" or something like that?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.107.58.131 (talk) 06:07, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Qipao v. Cheongsam

message: Qipao are very elegant.  Someone should post more pictures of historical qipao and modern ones to compare and contrast. CanCanDuo 01:12, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, better pictures are needed.--Balthazarduju 00:06, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done.KTo288 18:59, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Better Pictures

message: Per the discussion above, I have moved the article. Please make whatever clean-up is neccessary (eliminating double-redirects, adjusting article text, etc.). Kaldari (talk) 15:44, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Move completed

message: The image :Image:Cv102460.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here.  In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page.  Please check
:* That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
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This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --07:28, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Image copyright problem with Image:Cv102460.jpg

message: Seriously. It currently lists 5 video games, 2 animes, and one movie. Sometimes to say that some girl wears one "at some point during the story" or "during the ending credits". Are we going to list every person and character in the world who has once worn a cheongsam? Please check http://www.xkcd.com/446/ Ratfox (talk) 22:02, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggest removing "cheongsam in culture" section 

message: The definition and the first section of the article are a little messy in terms of defining what cheongsam and qipao are. I suggest using an initial definition with hanzi for both cheongsam and qipao in Mandarin, Shanghainese and Cantonese.
Then I think the article should focus on the geography and what Mainland China, Shanghai and Hong Kong call what, once again using hanzi for each area. 
The type of qipao I am familiar with looks like this: http://beverlys.net/photos/2009/shop/Qipao500.jpg. I don't see any similar photo in this article. I would be nice to add such thing since this is they type of qipao we see around these days.
ICE77 (talk) 05:08, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Definition, geography and photograph 

message: The article talks about the dress getting "more form fitting and revealing" as a "modernization."  The article doesn't talk about it being the result of European/American influence which is why the dress radically changed after hundreds of years being basically the same baggy, long-sleeved form.  It looks like the Cheongsam had two changes to it's form because of European/American influence in the 1920s from the flapper dress and in the 1950s from Christian Dior's "New Look" fashion.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:558:6031:4F:6D07:E3AF:A9AD:4C43 (talk) 21:36, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Western influence 

message: Quote from the intro:  the cheongsam is "a body-hugging one-piece Chinese dress for women".  Later on there are pictures of cheongsam which are not "body-hugging" but lose and it is claimed that some cheongsams used as uniforms are "usually straight, with no waist shaping".
So that's a major inconsistency.  Maybe it should be pointed out that there are different styles of this dress, and one modern, fashionable variant can be of the close-cut type.  Thanks, Maikel (talk) 08:20, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Body-hugging? 

message: The article fails to name specific design features of a cheongsam, which I (as a complete layman) presume to include the high, stiff neck and the peculiar, asymmetrical fastening with hooks on one side of the chest.
I'd appreciate it if somebody could amend this article.  Thanks, Maikel (talk) 08:20, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: What makes a dress a cheongsam?

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Teresa Teng.  OH  MY  GOD!!!
That should be the example of modern use.  The ultimate example.Starhistory22 (talk) 01:35, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia only cites, summarizes, and paraphrases professionally-published mainstream academic or journalistic sources.  It does not rely on user opinion or original research.  You would really need a non-primary source that reviews a variety of professional sources and summarizes those as citing Teresa Tend as an especially noteworthy example of someone wearing a Cheongsam, and even then we wouldn't be able to say "the ultimate example" because of WP:NPOV.  Ian.thomson (talk) 01:50, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Modern Use" 

message: Can't Koreans understand if they wore Korean Cheongsam? 124.106.130.148 (talk) 04:47, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cheongsam sounds like Korean? 

message: The section Prom dress controversy reads a bit like content for someone's social media feed, rather than for an encyclopædia.  Surely it is not very notable, and the point is not clear.  —DIV (120.17.94.169 (talk) 14:02, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Prom dress controversy" 

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message: A cursory image search reveals that 長衫 is primarily worn by men. What the article deals with is qipao, worn by women. 2001:4C4E:24A8:E000:44E4:1A6E:C8AD:BB11 (talk) 18:07, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  长衫 is not the correct name for the content of the article 

message: Currently, there are two articles, one for the cheongsam, in reference to the garment worn by women, and for the changshan, in reference to the garment worn by men. These two words are just different romanticisations of the same Chinese word, as the editors of this page knows. 
As this article is tailored for English speakers, this makes sense since many English speakers are only familiar with the female cheongsam or qipao. However, it makes further research into this topic difficult for readers, since looking up the word in contemporary sources outside wikipedia will almost exclusively end up with information about the male changshan. 
Changing the name back to qipao will differentiate the two articles more and make it easier for readers trying to learn only about the female garment. Meanwhile, the current article already refers to the changshan as the male counterpart while the changshan article refers to this one as the female counterpart. 
Wouldn't a single article about the garb introduced to China by the Manchu people that developed over time in different ways at least be easier than the current two articles which have the same name using different romanticisation of the same Chinese word. 
BCnadian (talk) 12:44, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recommendation to change article name back to qipao or merge article with Changshan 

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