Talk:Mahatma Gandhi/Archive 3

message: I'd like to add some stuff to the pop culture section, but you can't edit.  We need this delisted. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.146.200.97 (talk • contribs) .
:There is no pop culture section on this page. Please add your inputs to the relevant page ramit 13:52, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Pop Culture

message: I'm doing a project on Gandhi and it seems I have to finish it all in one day. Could it be possible to compress the article. Gandhi in a nutshell would help. Thx
Hi, this is an encyclopedia for everybody! We can't just shorten for you. You don't have to use the English Wikipedia as your only source. You can go here or try other websites (search with Google). Also what is your project specifically on? Don't plagiarise. But what you really should do is to read the this page about three times, highlight in your head and then write the project. DaGizza Chat (c) 07:38, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have suggestions on how to better summarize or section, organize, etc. the article? Are there any particular areas where you would recommend material be moved to a sub-article? El_C 04:31, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  A bit too much text 

message: Hello everyone,
This is my first edit, first contribution, and first discussion, so I hope I did it right.  Despite this being a featured article, I noticed some obscene text towards the beginning, so I felt it appropriate to remove it.
User:JeremyS779
I have noticed throughout the entire article that someone has added in Joke text, such as I Like Cheese under it's own heading, or "Me and gandhi were tight" and such. However, I have not read enough regarding how to edit and update articles to feel comfortable making any changes, and Hope someone sees this statement soon and removes the offending text. Caris42 18:00, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That appears to have been fixed.  If some of it remains or reappears, please feel free to report it again.  Next time, if you provide a quoted string that we can search for to easily check whether the vandalism has been removed, that would be helpful.  —Wookipedian 18:34, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Obscene Text 

message: 'realized not only were Indians unprepared for mass scale resistance but the British rule in India was evil  and inherently oppressive'
I've changed this to 
'finally decided not only were Indians unprepared for mass scale resistance but the British rule in India was evil and inherently oppressive'
btw. this article is POV it is untrue, but I'll content myself with just this minor change 81.110.202.57 19:55, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Its not the left, its just a cult-of-personality phenemenon, a minor deification. You find the same thing with Reagan. Anyways, I agree, Ghandi wasn't perfect, and your first change was a good one. But its not about left vs. right. --Brentt 02:48, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oh Come on 

message: I'm not sure the following statement in the opening paragraph is accurate:
::Throughout his life he opposed any form of terrorism or violence.
I seem to recall that he worked as a recruiter for the British Army in WWI. Albeit for the ambulance corps, but nonetheless he was helping the war effort. --Brentt 02:50, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I have re-worded that line. --nirvana2013 20:46, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Nirvana2013's wording simply introduces the wording adult as if Gandhi wasn't an adult till the end of WWI.
Secondly, the statement describes his personal opposition to war, not his views on the British effort in WWI. In his autobiography, he repeatedly talks of the terrible devastation of the war. 
He only describes it as his duty to help in defence of the Empire, if he wanted equal citizenship in it.
I don't feel there need be any change. However I will wait before eliminating the word adult.
Jai Sri Rama! 
Rama's Arrow 16:09, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Throughout his life?

message: I've read many a place that Rabindranath Tagore conferred the title of Mahatma on Gandhiji while Gandhiji returned the compliment with the title Gurudev. The article mentions someone else giving the title of Mahatma. Can someone please check and make the necessary corrections, if any? --Gurubrahma 16:09, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Virtually all sources on the topic credit Tagore. I added Tagore's name and the following reference - Dutta, Krishna and Andrew Robinson. Rabindranath Tagore: An Anthology, p. 2. -Classicfilms 17:24, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mahatma title 

message: While Bourke-White was the last person to photograph Gandhi, it was not the one which shows him at the spinning wheel. There are plenty of references which indicate that this photo was taken in 1946. See , , , ,  etc. I seem to remember that the last one was one that had  Manu and Abha as well, but I am not at all sure about that. Tintin Talk 21:29, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Now, according to an NYT article, there is some doubt whether it was Bourke-White who took his last picture. I'll raise that in her article. Tintin Talk 21:54, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Margaret Bourke-White]] 

message: I'm not sure what this has to do with Gandhi's principle of faith. It needs to be changed, added to, or explained:
Faith
In spite of their deep reverence to each other, Gandhi and Rabindranath Tagore got involved in protracted debates more than once. These debates exemplify the philosophical differences between the two most famous Indians at the time. On January 15, 1934, an earthquake hit Bihar and caused extensive damage and loss of life. Gandhi maintained this was because of the sin committed by upper caste Hindus by not letting untouchables in their temples (Gandhi was committed to the cause of improving the fate of untouchables, referring to them as Harijans, people of Krishna). Tagore vehemently opposed Gandhi's stance, maintaining that an earthquake can only be caused by natural forces, not moral reasons, however repugnant the practice of untouchability may be.
TheTruth12 03:21, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Faith?? 

message: Which incident does this line refer to?:
"This incident was a turning point in his life, often acknowledged in biographies, that would serve as the catalyst for his activism that occurred several days later when he began a journey to Pretoria."
It's not at all clear, as the previous line mentions recurring incidences.
::South Africa changed him dramatically as he faced the humiliation and oppression that was commonly directed at Indians in that country. One day in court in the city of Durban, the magistrate asked him to remove his turban, which he refused to do, and Gandhi stormed out of the courtroom. He was also literally thrown off a train at Pietermaritzburg after refusing to move from first class to a third class compartment, normally used by coloured peoples, while travelling on a valid first class ticket. Later, travelling further on by stagecoach, he was beaten by a driver for refusing to travel on the footboard to make room for a European passenger. He suffered other hardships on the journey as well, including being barred from many hotels on account of his race. This incident was a turning point in his life, often acknowledged in biographies, that would serve as the catalyst for his activism that occurred several days later when he began a journey to Pretoria. This experience led him to more closely examine the hardships his people suffered in South Africa during his time in Pretoria.
:i believe it's a confusion due to several editors inserting sentences in between previously existing text: the incident is the one of getting thrown off train: deleting the line "suffered other hardships" or shifting it after the mentioned line wouldn't be ok: also unclear which biography/biographies identifies the incident as turning point.  --Pournami 07:21, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  incident? 

message: Apparently, the  tags dont work!!!
Pizzadeliveryboy 23:34, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Obviously, the article first needs to be semi-protected or protected as the case may be, by an admin. Only then, the tags would be inserted and give an impression of the tags working. The insertion of tags does not help in protecting an article. --Gurubrahma 05:07, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  {{tl|sprotect}} tags dont work 

message: I just wanted to congratulate all concerned on this great article. It's clear, well-written, and interesting throughout. I thought there was a great balance between putting material here and linking to other pages: there were several things I followed up on out of interest, but I never felt that I had to look up something just to understand this article. I'll certainly use it as inspiration in my more humble efforts. Thanks to the many editors who made this happen! -- William Pietri 14:57, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fantastic article 

message: did gandhi have any religious agenda or were his goals mainly political ? Hhnnrr 17:07, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, Gandhi never advocated one religion over another, nor a religion as a solution to socio-political problems. His activities were for "Swaraj," for which he felt that combating untouchability, socio-religious discrimination, poverty and socio-economic ills was essential. Rama's Arrow 03:53, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  religious agenda 

message: I removed these two sentences:
:The wide acceptance of this title outside India may in part reflect the complexities of the relationship between India and Britain during Gandhi's lifetime. Such acceptance is consistent with the widespread perception of his deeply held religious beliefs and commitment to non-violence.
There is no source for these and they are most likely original research/speculation. "The complexities of the relationship between India and Britain during Gandhi's lifetime" is about as vague as one can get. The second sentence is more speculative than the first. The first setence in the Mahatma subsection states (with a source) that the use of the term internationally is due to the confusion that it is his first name. Therefore, its not really appropriate to say, as the second sentence implies, that it is due to the perception of his beliefs or non-violence. savidan(talk) (e@) 11:41, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  I removed 

message: This article is still really long. I'm finding it hard to get through in one sitting. Whether or not it's too long is up for discussion, i suppose. --Torgo 05:50, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Still too long 

message: Looks like I’m alone in feeling this way, but I found this article unusually informative, not “too long.”  Still, for a quick and dirty alternative to the full-article text, readers can always drop by the simple English article first.  It’s much shorter and a decent jumping-off point. --Hamishofangus 14:01, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Simple English Article an Alternative 

message: Right now the article says that only 379 civilians were killed at the massacre of Amristar, this number is most certainly higher. I believe that 379 was the 'official' number released by the British, but many other reports put this number over 1,000.
:Any references? --Siva1979Talk to me 19:51, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Jallianwala Bagh Massacre / Amritsar Massacre goes into a little more detail and has some sources. -- Writtenonsand 02:48, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Amritsar massacre 

message: The primary spokespeople for criticism of Gandhi cannot, cannot be a couple of later-20th century comedian/magicians.  Penn and Teller should not be in this article at all.  Let's talk about Orwell.  (Ethan Mitchell, not logged in)
:Yes, sound reasoning. Orwell's criticism was that Gandhi carried religiousness to the extent of being almost inhuman (in personal life). Include that? Orwell  said much more in praise? Especially an explanation on controversial stance on jews
:Yeah, I would go ahead and delete the penn and teller reference, but if some former objectors return and restart a word war on the talk page.. (really cannot rule out possibility) I don't know why so many people are so angry at the Gandhi article on wiki. Vandalism, it might be; but why so   much?  -Pournami 05:44, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If it's ok with all editors interested in article, in light of the fact that Penn and Teller cannot be considered serious criticism, as Ethan says above, let's delete the line on Penn and Teller and include Orwell? -Pournami 05:47, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Penn and Teller?  Please... 

message: There were a boat load of translations of Gandhi's name in the lead and I don't know what we were trying to convey with that. He was a Gujarati, so let's just keep it simple. Otherwise we'd be spending the rest of our lives translating his name into all of India's national languages. AreJay 14:54, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Languages 

message: As depicted in the article vegeterianism is NOT prevalant in any part of India.. Less than 6% of the hindu population is vegeterians. Rest eat meat. Hindus in general eat chicken, goat, lamb, different kinds of small birds and all kinds of edible seafood. However there might be a higher percentage of hindu population that does not specifically eat a Cow which is a scared animal. And some of the hindus does not eat Cow for religious reasons, eat Beef(buffalo, ox etc). 
To represent most of the hindus as vegetarians in this article is pure propaganda. Thx
:Actually I heard about a third are lacto vegetarians, another third eat a little meat, and the remaining third eat Western diets, are fruitarians, and whatever. All depends on the statistics and reports you read. Charlene Copley
::For purposes of the Wikipedia, it depends on the sources we cite.  :-) WP:VERIFY -- Writtenonsand 12:43, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  False assertions about Vegeterianism 

message: This page keeps getting vandalised too often. The last dozen or so edits are only reverting vandalism. Can we make it protected? ramit 19:34, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Does anyone know offhand what's the vandalism level that a page has to reach before it's protected? I count roughly 70 vandalism reverts in the first 17 days of May. Nearly all the vandalism was anonymous, so just protecting from anonymous edits would do the trick. The problem here is that there are too many instances of insults. I think the tolerance level should be lower when vandals are repeatedly insulting someone who is so revered by the world, and a spiritual leader of the second most populous country in the world. ॐ Priyanath 22:33, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

text: To me, it gives the message that he was considered a very important personality by many countries... After all how many personalities (whether leaders/ politicians/ actors/ sportstars/ celebrities) have so many countries issue stamps after them. ramit 19:52, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: :: Gandhi dedicated his life to the wider purpose of discovering truth, or Satya. He tried to achieve this by learning from his own mistakes and conducting experiments on himself. He named his autobiography The Story of My Experiments with Truth.
:: ( Comments from vkvora : MK Gandhi was interested in construction of Somnath Temple and he proposed to collect the fund from Citizens. When many citizens were involved including political leaders Sardar Patel, Dr. Rajendra Prasad and Kanaiyalal M. Munshi and there is no reference or word in the Article of Mahatma Gandhi, we are trying to supress the TRUTH.  Somnath Temple is the monumnet of Indian Caste based system. Now for discussion : God is Truth or Truth is God ) vkvora 03:29, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discovered Truth 

message: The page has remained protected for quite some time now. IMO, it should be unprotected. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 05:36, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortunately, considering his opinions that may cause confusion among users, it should remain protected. It seems quite difficult for people to grasp his views on anti-violence and so they equate that with anti-something else. A race, religion or country for example. This page has been reviewed and meets quality standards, and so any relevant changes can be made/added by moderators. CassiusBilbao 22:58, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd like to see the semi-protection maintained. Most of the vandalism was of the juvenile sort, but was often lewd, and/or extremely disrespectful. I think it will start right up again if the protection is taken away. Any registered WP user can still edit the article. ॐ Priyanath 23:20, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: protection

message: According to Indian Copyright Act, copyright protection of photographs finishes sixty years after they were created. The images here obviously date older than that. I think we should reinsert the images recently removed from the article. -- Lost 13:35, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image removal 

message: Is there any chance of greater mention of Badshah Khan? --Zak 14:17, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: To the extent that it's appropriate in Gandhi's bio, sure. What kind of additional content would you propose? And also - I assume you know this but the article is yours to modify, expand or change as much as anyone else's. :) -- User:RyanFreisling @ 14:39, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Lol yeah Ryan I know...wasn't sure if could edit a featured article though..any suggestions where it would best fit in? --Zak 14:48, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Badshah Khan 

message: Two images have recently been commented out of the article, saying that they are not photographs but cartoons. IMO this is not so, but even if it were so, there is nothing in Wikipedia that precludes the inclusion of cartoons/sketches/drawings/representations/child art/whatever. Where is it said that only photos be included? I am therefore restituting those images. ImpuMozhi 18:52, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I didnt even realise the images had been removed. Guess too many edits in a single day hid the removal. There has been enough discussion about those images, I think we should not be removing images without discussing at this page first -- Lost 18:57, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Images

message: It has been documented that Gandhi slept with his wife the night his father died and that he felt guilty about it. This was one of the contributing factors to his celibacy. I think this is relevant and important as it gives further insight into his spirituality and his views on sexuality.Muntuwandi 13:31, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: double shame

message: While I read this article, I was shocked that Penn & Teller was in this article for a criticism. I noticed earlier on this talk page that other people agreed, and no one saw a need to keep this section up. Here's what I removed:
::Gandhi believed that the mind of an oppressor or a bigot could be changed by love and non-violent rejection of wrong actions, while accepting full responsibility for the consequences of the actions. However, Penn and Teller, in an episode of their Showtime program Bullshit! ("Holier than Thou"), attacked Gandhi for, amongst other things, hypocrisy for perceived inconsistent stands on nonviolence, alleged inappropriate behaviour with women and apparent racist statements against Africans.  The last allegation is based on an incident in Bombay in 1896. On addressing a public meeting in Bombay on September 26 1896 (cf. Collected Works Volume II) following his return from South Africa, Gandhi said: 
::Ours is one continued struggle against degradation sought to be inflicted upon us by the European, who desire to degrade us to the level of the raw kaffir, whose occupation is hunting and whose sole ambition is to collect a certain number of cattle to buy a wife with, and then pass his life in indolence and nakedness.
I hope this is alright with everyone. RyanEberhart 19:57, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree entirely. P&T is not an encyclopedic source. This Fire Burns.....Always  20:11, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Strongly agree.  Furthermore, P&T make the typical mistake of judging someone outside the context of their historical time and place.  No one is claiming Gandhi revolutionized relations between men and women, so it's disingenuous to bash him for a perceived lack of effort towards women's rights.  Gandhi's fight was on another front.  If he was a hypocrite, so was everyone else in his day.  Big deal.  Not notable here.  Kasreyn 03:48, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Agree, and besides, in Sept. 1896 Gandhi was only 26, so he may well have altered his views, were they somehow racist. Or, maybe he didn't, but presenting a single statement, out of context, made at a young age as evidence of him being racist does not seem entirely reasonable. 194.157.147.34 14:45, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  And that means we should take the quote out and not discuss it at all? -Iopq 10:09, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Uh, no. Please feel free to state your views on the quote. 194.157.147.49 07:47, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Penn & Teller 

message: Every so often a spammer using an IP address that starts with 64.228.225. spams links to bogus web sites. I have tracked down and reverted all I could find, but I'm getting a little sick of tracking all these articles on my watchlist (it's up to 263 pages by now). Can I ask the regular, frequent editors of this article to keep an eye out for this person? If they hit again, please revert the edit and warn the spammer. If you have the time, check out what other edits they made that day and revert them as well -- or just let me know and I'll do it.
The link they like to add to this article is [http: //www angelfire com/me2/sutras/mg html A Selection of Mahatma Gandhi Quotes]. The real point of the link is to build search engine rankings for the commercial links at the bottom of the page; the same spamdexer is linking similarly bogus pages for Hindu mystical figures and U.S. country music stars -- all with the same links at the bottom of the page.
The spammer also recently created an account, User:Borgengruft.
For more info, see:
* Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive117#Link-spamming from someone in the IP address block 64.228.225.xxx
* Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive118#Update -- now using Borgengruft?
* User:A. B./To do list#Abusers
Thanks for your help.--A. B. 05:59, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Help wanted for a [[Mahatma Gandhi ]] link spammer

message: I'm not sure, but as far as I remember (and my father, and a friend), Gandhi's killer was a Muslim radical.
I don't want to change it before I'm 100% sure.
:Please see Nathuram Godse for information -- Lost 05:50, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Was Gandhi's murder a Hindu radical? 

message: The pronunciation of the name is in IPA according to Wikipedia's policies. Please dont make it your own whimsical one. Cygnus_hansa 14:25, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Pronunciation

message: Check this and this out. Presumably in public domain as is K. B. Sundarambal. -- Sundar \talk \contribs 09:24, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The first image is already uploaded here, but the second is not. The Second image is claimed to have been shot at Wardha in 1937, but it features a sea-shore; I have often seen this image in other places, generally in association with the Dandi march of 1929. Regards, ImpuMozhi 15:36, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep, I noticed the first image in the article after I left this message. :p No idea about the second one. -- Sundar \talk \contribs 08:17, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  A rare picture 

message: I of course see the point in putting Gandhi's name in his native Gujarati, but what is the point in also showing the Hindi (I know I should just say "Devanagari" since it's not just Hindi)? Isn't this a little overboard? I feel that just because Hindi one of the official languages of India doesn't mean it needs to be added to all articles about Indian people. However, I'm quite open to discussion about this. --SameerKhan 03:58, 9 
August 2006 (UTC)
::Hindi is not "just" one of the official languages of India. It is the NATIONAL language.Also Pls understand the difference between a script and a language.-RegardsBharatveer 05:07, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hindi the National language? That'll be news to the millions of Tamils! It could probably cause the collapse of the ruling coalision in Delhi caused by the withdrawal of the Tamil nationalistic DMK! - Parthi 05:39, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: 'Oh" did i hurt some very  sensitive  people here by using the word "National". maybe I should have used "official".
And pls note ONLY HINDI is considered as the OFFICIAL language . See Article 343-Official language of the Union.
Parthy, Pls dont entertain such vain hopes. Even the great  anna  was not able to do that .Indians have successfully solved the Tamil issue FOREVER.So rest in peace in OOZ land.Bharatveer 06:08, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Bharatveer, no personal attacks. - Parthi 06:15, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Did you read clause 2 of Article 343? Hindi is not the only official language. - Parthi 06:18, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

text:  Clause 2 says English may be used for the official purposes; but it does not say It is considered as an Official language. Your comments about collapse of Government of India is also a PERSONAL attack.Hope you will not repeat it again.Bharatveer 06:25, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How does my comment on a hypothetical political scenario in India is a personal attack on you? Whereas by adivsing me to rest in peace in 'OOZ land' you are commenting on me personally, and that makes it a personal attack. - Parthi 06:28, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

text: I am not interested in this bickering anymore. I consider your comments to be very personal when it is from a foreigner like you .Bharatveer 06:53, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Personal attack number 2 - Parthi 07:01, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name 

message: I cleaned up a bunch of vandalism today but left some edits that were made on Aug 18 before and after the vandalism. I don't know enough to judge whether they should be kept, reverted, or modified. Can someone more knowledgeable please take a look? Clayoquot Sound 05:50, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent edits re: Sikhism 

message: User:Vikrant Phadkay made some changes. I have some issues with this in particular:
"He spent his final years fighting for communal harmony."
to
"However, mainly due to his ideas, India had to pay a heavy price for freedom. Several thousand Indians led by him were killed in clashes with the Britons, and thousands more died in Hindu-Muslim riots once Pakistan was formed. Gandhi did practically nothing to save the latter "
I agree with the first, but not the second - particularly the line "Gandhi did practically nothing to save the latter". Leading up to that is a rather contentious statement, in my view - that Ghandi's ideas were responsible for many deaths - how do we know if there wouldn't have been many more deaths there would have been if a different approach was taken, perhaps a more militant/violent approach? Also, shouldn't we give the people themselves a bit of credit - they weren't all "puppets on a string"? Camillus (talk) 23:23, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair comment?