Talk:Capital District (New York)

message: Might want to check the spelling on that one. Political seats are CapitOls.
:From the Wiki on "Capital": "In politics, a capital (also called capital city or political capital — although the latter phrase has an alternative meaning based on an alternative meaning of "capital") is the principal city or town associated with its government. It is almost always the city which physically encompasses the offices and meeting places of the seat of government and fixed by law. The word capital is derived from the Latin caput meaning "head," and the related term capitol refers to the building where government-business is chiefly conducted." People around here refer to the area as "Capital District," and the building where the Governor works as The Capitol. --Gnhn 17:26, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  CapitAl? 

message: I added the population of the Albany-Schenectady-Troy MSA, and noted that it is also defined to include Montgomery and Schoharie Counties. Tweaked some of the language to make it clear that "Capital District" is a semi-official, somewhat amorphous term. Deleted reference to CDTA since it seemed out of place as the only public service agency mentione: there are many public agencies serving the region, not just that one. Perhaps an external link, if someone knows it? --Gnhn 14:00, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The article states- "The Capital District is a large component of the Albany-Schenectady-Troy Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA) which, as defined by the Office of Management and Budget, includes the four aforementioned counties as well as Schoharie County." Leaving the impression that Troy is the name of the county, Troy is a city in Rensselaer County, and the county seat as well, but is not the name of the county, where as Albany and Schenectady do have the advantage of being the names of the counties in which those cities reside.  And now I just realized that it says "four" counties...this must be from when someone snuck in the name Saratoga on the end of the MSA title...It'll be longer but I think just putting "includes Albany, Rensselaer, Saratoga, Schenectady, and Schoharie counties" would be best.Camelbinky 18:08, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm editing the communities section, AGAIN. It's been awhile since I did a complete censoring of it, people have been changing it around putting in populations that are completely false. Saratoga Springs has an estimated population of 25,000, half of what is stated in the article's list. It is NOT a primary city, the metro name is Albany-Schenectady-Troy.  I have noticed alot of Albany area articles having false information inserted to make Saratoga Springs/Saratoga county look bigger or more important.  Please stop! Camelbinky (talk) 04:37, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: With my editing I'm putting in the article the population estimates for 2000 based on what appears on the particular city/town/village's article here in wikipedia so that anyone who keeps wanting to move or change the populations will have to cite a new source and prove that the other article is wrong.  I'm also (AGAIN) removing any villages/towns/cities from any place outside of Albany, Rensselaer, Saratoga, or Schenectady counties.  There can be an argument made for including Schoharie since it is in the metro area as defined by the census bureau, if anyone wants to return them, feel free to do so and say so here please, so i know its an issue someone cares about.  Having Columbia, Greene, and Montgomery places makes the list waaaaaay too long and adds places that most people in Albany, Colonie, or Troy or anywhere else in the heart of the Capital District probably has never been to and many places they only vaguely are aware of and some they may have never heard of, especially when you get to places in western Montgomery County (which don't even pick up Albany radio stations and often shop, work, etc in Utica, not the Capital District).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Camelbinky (talk • contribs) 04:53, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

text: I went through ALOT of effort to clean up the list of communities! someone reverted it back!  THERE IS FALSE INFORMATION IN THE CURRENT LIST, DO NOT RETURN IT AFTER I CHANGE IT PLEASE! The population on Saratoga Springs is false and i added alot of important info on population. Please explain why it was changed back whoever did it.  I am reverting it to my version.  Check the individual articles on the cities listed to prove my populations and that Saratoga Springs DOES NOT have 55,000 people, it is close to 26,000.  Camelbinky (talk) 11:51, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

text: The same unsigned person keeps messing with this page, they continue to put Saratoga Springs back at 60,000 and are now putting the Town of Colonie at 30,000.  I dont know where they are getting their information and why they continue to do this. Is there anyway to block them or report them?  Camelbinky (talk) 22:39, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Population and Definitions 

message: I removed this term from the opening line ("also known as the Capital-Saratoga Area"). I've lived here for 10 years and have never heard that term. I don't think it belongs in the first line of the article, if anywhere at all. There are no mentions of it on alt.culture.ny.upstate. Anyone have an evidence/experience to back up the inclusion of that term? --Patik 20:54, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Whoever keeps putting Saratoga Springs on the end of the name of the metropolitan statistical area needs to stop.  It is Albany-Schenectady-Troy.  This is the official census name, check the census bureau website or any almanac.  This has been occuring in many Albany related websites.  No amount of wanting to promote your home city will change the fact that census regulations determine what cities are the central cities and Saratoga Springs does not meet those standards.  The census bureau determines names, not individuals on wikipedia.
Not from the area, but went to college in the area in the mid-late 1980's.  I remember hearing the term occasionally then because of the growth in areas like Clifton Park compared to the rest of the region.  But I imagine nowadays it's really just an outer suburban component of the Capital District.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.179.96.86 (talk) 19:44, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Capital-Saratoga Area 

message: The list of "cities" will quickly get out of hand again and get waaaaaaaaay too long if we allow every hamlet and neighborhood to be included. I have renamed the list to "Incorporated Cities, Towns, and Villages" to limit it to only places with governments. Perhaps two separate articles could be created, one on a list of incorporated places in the capital district (and could include not just the Albany-Schenectady-Troy MSA but also the other counties in the greater Albany area like Washington, Warren, Greene, Columbia, Montgomery, etc that are currently not in the list on this page) removing it from this article; and another page on hamlets in that same geographic area. My rationale for not having hamlets is that it unfairly lists what are just neighborhoods or housing subdivisions in the various towns but then  neighborhoods in the central cities that have larger populations are excluded. Hamlets and city neighborhoods are listed in the articles on each town and city they reside in.Camelbinky (talk) 23:54, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  List  

message: The current explanation for the origin of CD as a term says "The term was originated in the 1920s in an effort between the Albany Chamber of Commerce (now known as the Albany-Colonie Regional Chamber of Commerce) and the Albany Times Union." But it is not sourced, and I have found multiple sources that mention area organizations and groups using the name Capital District in their name from the 1910's and possibly the 1880's. Albany Guide Book published in 1917 by John D. Walsh mentions the Capital District Recreation League which was begun in 1916 to promote a Capital District Park (roughly where the Albany Intl Airport and old Shaker settlement is today). Obviously the name CD mustve already been well enough known for them to use it as the name for their organization and proposed park, even if the park was never built. If anyone has any further sources that push it back to a definitive start please feel free to post it here or go ahead and be bold and add it. I'm not going to change it until there seems to be some further evidence on when it began.Camelbinky (talk) 00:22, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin of the term Capital District 

message: There is a  college under the umbrella that is Union college but the univesity is made of Albany Law, Unioin College, Union Grad...  The links should be changed to match what school they come from.  IE  
Albany Law School Of Union University
Union College of Union University
Union Graduate College of Union University ( that one split off in 2003)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.70.31.100 (talk) 14:15, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Union University exists in name only, they dont have administrative oversight of the individual colleges nor do they share any duties. Union Graduate College of Union University split off from Union College, it was not formed directly by the Union University umbrella organization. Unless the individual articles are changed to different names I suggest we keep the names as they appear in the article title to avoid redlinks.Camelbinky (talk) 22:52, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Union University 

message: I'll start putting citations for the info not cited so far (I find it easier to write prose if I'm not interrupting myself putting citations in as I go along, its hard for me to see how things are flowing when there is huge cite web template info in the middle). For the  on the sq. miles area of the CD would actually adding up the sq mileage of each county in the CD be enough? Though I have a feeling the sq. mileage listed is for the Albany-Schenectady-Amsterdam Combined Statistical Area, since the population listed there is the pop. for that same area, and that should be easy to find a citation for. So far everything I've seen that needs a citation I can put one in pretty quickly for, just a matter of me getting around to doing it.Camelbinky (talk) 05:45, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd like to change the list format of the Colleges and Universities section into prose along with moving the info on Tech Valley High School down to a new section Education, split into two subsections, one for an overview of the school districts (including any notable private schools) and the other for colleges and universities. Possibly having a separate main article split off to list all school districts in the Capital District could be created if someone thinks its worth having, obviously we cant list them all here. I could do it myself but if someone with more interest and knowledge on the subjects thinks its a good idea I would defer to them.Camelbinky (talk) 19:25, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I created a Transportation section, so far has major roads, airports, and Amtrak stations. I tried to pick the most important long-distance roads for different parts of the Capital District and not just ones important to the immediate Tri-cities. So NYS Route 30 was included because it is important to Schoharie, Fulton, and Montgomery counties and the Taconic Parkway because of Columbia County (and lots of college students who go home downstate from CD colleges tend to use it in order to save money on tolls). There are probably more Amtrak stations to include, and definitely some smaller airports (Mechanicville-Burello, South Albany, and whatever the name of the one in Poestenkill is, I just have to make sure they have articles first). Hope more people add to this section, still needs at least a section on bus stations and intra- and inter- city transportation (CDTA and equivalent in GF area). May have to split an article from it.Camelbinky (talk) 01:41, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

text: I've changed the order of the sections and combined some to be similar in arrangement to New York City, I know NYC is one city and this is a region, but given that the article on NYC must balance several counties (boroughs) with strong local attachments, distinct histories, cultures, etc I thought it would be the best model to base this on as this article must do the same- balance a concise overview with being thorough of the entire area. There are lots of articles on entire regions within a state, some are a paragraph- Upstate Connecticut, Niagara Frontier; others such as North Country, New York, and Upstate New York, are mostly just like this article was a couple months ago- a bunch of long lists with little prose other than explaining where the place was, a few that are pretty good are Upstate South Carolina, Upstate California, and Southern Tier, California seems to have lots of these articles and some of the best ones, and while San Francisco Bay Area is a C class article its one of the most comprehensive out there.Camelbinky (talk) 16:08, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

text: I've changed the class of the article from B to C due to lack of citations. The B class was a holdover from before the current effort of a rewrite I believe, and not any editor's current assessment. Which even though the current effort has greatly expanded the article and has been for the better, a B class (IMO) can not be justified with the lack of citations, it is my fault, as I find it hard to write prose with long citations in the middle, will rectify when done, though others are encouraged to find sources on their own, the info is correct and would only take a few seconds on a google (or yahoo, or ask.com) search or google books search as those places are where the info came from in the first place (not from my head, irregardless of what people may think). "Three minutes thought would suffice to find this out; but thought is irksome and three minutes is a long time." A.E. HousmanCamelbinky (talk) 02:31, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Good call. Will bump back up to B shortly, knowing you though. ~ ωαdεstεr16«talkstalk» 06:10, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

text: I've started a new subsection on the history section; preliminary title of "Urban decline and rise of the suburbs". Hope to have it discuss suburban population gains and urban population losses with relatively flat growth in the CD as a whole, construction of highways that promote commuting such as the Northway, suburban malls and failed attempts at urban malls (Troy, Cohoes, and Amsterdam), business' moving from urban cores to suburbs or locating in the suburbs whereas in the past they would have naturally picked the urban cores (Sears and Macy's picking Colonie Center over downtown Albany, Times Union moving from Albany to Colonie are two examples with common reasons- the Corning Dem. Party machine pissed them off when they wanted to move into/expand in Albany).Camelbinky (talk) 19:12, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Things to do/things Ive done 

message: I've noticed a new religious subsection added. I was wondering people's opinions on just what a NPOV religious section should look like as I have always steered clear of such sections (which as this one started out as, tend to be lists of places of worship and little more). I apologize for the section starting off as a list, even though I'm not the one that made the subsection, I am to blame for the other lists in the culture section and that is a bad example on my part, will get to changing it to prose soon if someone doesnt beat me to it. I do encourage the editor who put the info about the Karaite congregation in to continue to edit and add the info in a prose form, as I was not even aware there were Karaite's in Albany.Camelbinky (talk) 05:34, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: In my opinion (and I am the editor who added the Karaites), a religious subsection could provide descriptions of the facilities available to practice various religions.  For example, are there any noteworthy architectural features of the cathedrals?  Are there noteworthy features of the local religious traditions and culture, in any religion (other than that the Jewish community includes some Karaites)?  For example, Albany is not so far from the area where Mormonism was founded, and I am wondering how this has affected any religion.  The section could also describe special festivals etc. that Albany is locally or more widely known for holding, and that occur at various times of the year.  In format and tone, it could be much like the article's description of Albany's parks and recreation areas, which are also more than lists.  Just some thoughts.  By the way, I don't know that much more about religious life in Albany besides the Karaite community, and I've been contributing information to other articles about Karaite communities throughout the USA.  fyi, the Karaite community leader in Albany is particularly stringent by the standards of the movement.  --AFriedman (talk) 05:49, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for that, that gives me some good ideas. I do know the founder of Reform Judaism (in full disclosure I am a Reform Jew) was originally a rabbi in Albany and when he first started his philosophy a riot actually broke out at the synagogue and in the street and the police were called out. The synagogue for Congregation Berith Sholom (the congregation I grew up in) in Troy is the oldest synagogue in continous use as a synagogue in the entire state. I guess those are two things I can add, the info with references are already on other articles, I just need to do a copy/paste job over to here. Oh, btw (and you can respond on my talk page since this is getting off the topic of the article) where is the synagogue for the Karaites in Albany? and I know many Jews (particularly Orthodox) dont acknowledge Karaites as full-members of the Jewish community has there been any contact or sharing of facilities or events between the Karaites and the large community of Jews in Albany? The Orthodox dont recognize Reform as "real Jews" either so we have that in common.Camelbinky (talk) 06:01, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Religious section 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The lead sentence and paragraph need a rewrite.
Can anyone give a reliably sourced, one or two-sentence definition of what the Capital District actually is, i.e. with specific boundaries and a map?  We need the definition for the first sentence and the map for the Infobox.  The map currently shown in the Infobox does not agree with the map in Commons so which one is right, if either of them are?  Whatever the definition is, it has to be something supported by the preponderance of reliable sources.
The current lead paragraph gives no exact boundary for the district, however it does give an exact population which implies that the boundary is precise, and that there is some sort of officially recognized definition.  I gather from reading the body of the article and the talk page, that the term "Capital District" is not an administrative region, and has no exact definition.  If that's the case, at a minimum the population figure should be removed, or a range given.
This talk page has all sorts of opinions recorded on it about what different people think the boundaries are.  In particular, I find the whole section #My definition of Capital District disturbing: comments such as My definition of Capital Distrcit is... or I believe it should be limited to ... [list of locations]  or [I think it's] defined by communities falling within AM/FM and television range of the city... should play no part in how the article is written and should be disregarded, as these are all based on personal opinion.  Articles must be written based not on opinion but on verifiable content from reliable sources.  As WP editors, we don't get to expound on what we think the boundaries are, or should be; that would be against core guidelines on verifiability and original research no matter how reasonable sounding or logical the proposal is; if it's not supported by reliable sources, it does not belong in the article.
The first paragraph should be written to define the Capital District area. If there is no agreed-upon definition among reliable sources, then we need to give both (or all) views, with references on each side of the issue, each with due weight according to the support they have among reliable sources. 
Would someone like to take a stab at redoing the first paragraph with a clear definition along with a few sources for it?   Mathglot (talk) 09:19, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Definition and map 

message: The information in the lede is valuable, the detailed list is not.  Additionally, the continued removal of specific dates of events is unwarranted. Scr★pIronIV 18:57, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Detailed info in lede 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: A discussion is taking place as to whether :Portal:Capital District is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Capital District (2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America1000 08:09, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nomination of [[:Portal:Capital District]] for deletion