Talk:Dalit Buddhist movement/Archive 1

message: Regarding Indian Buddhist Movement article I have asked the user to come for specific points that are not acceptable. But he is showing his anti-Buddhist mindset ans it not open for any discussions. Wiki Administrators except Brahmin and Shudra Varnas please take note of this. Dhammafriend 16:11, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I will also report this ethnic characterization as a personal attack.These edits are severely demented.Hkelkar 16:23, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Please come forward for what kind of attacks are you talking? I have clearly mentioned that the article is about present Buddhist movement in India and current happenings. This year October 2006 millions of people are converting to Buddhism at Nagpur in India. Come and see for the proofs. Dhammafriend 16:26, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

text: You have made several ethnic characterizations in my talk page and on this talk page. Until you stop making ethnic and racial attacks on people I refuse to discuss with you. Please stop, for this is detrimental to the purpose of wikipedia. Just because somebody is Jewish, brahmin, Buddhist or Shudra does not mean that he should/should not edit certain articles or participate in discussion. What you have said so far is BLATANTLY racist and hatemongering and action will be taken to that effect.Hkelkar 16:29, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

text:  Please come to the specific point. If you say all I write is wrong?? This is too much !! For your kind information we oppose all kind of social discrimination like racism, Hindu-casteism, Hindu-untouchability. As a Buddhist from my heart I believe in Equality, Liberty and Fraternity the basic principles of Buddhism. What racism are you talking? I have not called Black or any such remarks. We have Black, White Buddhists in Europe I am working with such Buddhis people Dhammafriend 16:36, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The user [[Hkelkar]] is not following Wikiepedia Directives for discussions and NPOV

message: :Hkelkar please come forward to discuss your points. Please be specific to the points. Don't keep NPOV without mentioning your points in discussion. Don't give warnings to each and everybody because you are not the owner of wikipedia. So lets have a discussion on all points. I also wants Buddhist world to participate in thid discussions so proper and true picture of present Indian Buddhist Movement will come to know. In all articles please have a healthy attitude for discussions. Dhammafriend 10:26, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I will discuss with you when you stop making racist attacks against people.Hkelkar 16:24, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: NPOV

message: The only textual edits I've made to this page are, redirects from Navayana and Navayāna, inclusions of a reference section, and the definition of navayāna.
Contrary to what Dhammafriend says, I am an American of Indian descent and a Theravāda Buddhist of former Brahmin caste.
:: Buddhist do not have caste neither they believe any former caste like Brahmin,Bhangi ,Scheduled Caste, OBC caste etc. So don't claim false things. I have Buddhist friends in America who can certainly verify your identity. So if want to discuss you can also meet our Buddhist friends in America so don't try to fool wikipedia community. Who gave you ordination as Buddhist? Do you know the process to become a Buddhist? Dhammafriend 10:13, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Legal system in India have Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist, Christens as Religion. So you can not say is 'referred' ? Its strange. When our cencus is done people are referred as their religion Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim etc. So Navayana is baseless term in every legal sense Dhammafriend 10:13, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is true that there is a publishing house known as Navyana so what? It is not a Buddhist publishing house. It is a book publisher not a religion publisher. So you can't put their name in the Indian Buddhist Movement article because its a religious movement. Dhammafriend 10:13, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

text:  Dr. Ambedkar revived Buddhism in India so you can not brand is Old OR Neo! Its Buddhism. People from Europe /USA are converting to their own found Buddhist practices. All are Buddhist so newly converted people are not branded as neo ! Please also visit www.e-b-u.org. In Indian Context Buddhist from Ladakh, Assam, Maharshtra, Karnataka etc. are a fighting unitedly for Buddhist Revival. Do you know All Indian Buddhist Monk Association ? Especially for Mahabodhi Temple Liberation Movement world Buddhist are united. Buddhist monk from Japan Bhante Surai Sasai is doing best in Central Region of India Nagpur to mobiliese masses Dhammafriend 10:13, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

text: The Article is about Buddhist Movement in India current status and present developments. So it is not about Dr. Ambedkar for that we have separate article so you can post your views there. Not in this article. About Dr. Gail Omvedt you might have read her books only but our friends have arranged her Lecture in IIT Bombay www.iitb.ac.in and all know her personnaly. Dhammafriend 10:13, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Claims that I am anti-Buddhist and source for Navayāna

message: The article is about present Buddhist religious activities in India. There is no violation of POV. Many people who are branded as Hindus from different castes are converting to Buddhism on their own to escape from Hindu Caste System and Hindu Untouchability. Buddhists accepts everybody irrespective of his Hindu Castes. Anybody wants to check he can visit India especially on October 2006 in Nagpur where thousands of people convert each year. Many news are available to check its truth.  Brithish Buddhist, Japanese Buddhists and ShriLankan Buddhists are helping Indian Buddhist to carry out mass conversions. Dhammafriend 18:15, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: NPOV Buddhist Movement Crossing Hindu Caste Barriers

message: Recently, User:Dhammafriend moved this page from Neo-Buddhism to Indian Buddhist Movement with the explanation, "Movement started by Dr. Ambedkar is known as Modern Buddhist Movement. Dr. Ambedkar rejected many theories of even traditional Buddhists especially the reason of renunciations i.e. myth propagated by Buddhists of 4 sites seen by Prince.". I will agree that, when I wrote the initial version of this page, I wasn't sure if Neo-Buddhism was really the best title, but it has the advantage of being used occasionally outside of Wikipedia. Where does the expression "Indian Buddhist Movement" come from? It's all capitalised, as if it were a proper name; "Indian Buddhist movement" sounds like it could apply to any form of Buddhism in India.—Nat Krause(Talk!) 19:53, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm also interested to see a source for the name Navayana, which is now listed as the Pali name for this movement.—Nat Krause(Talk!) 19:30, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no source for the name. It is used a default name used by some so as to distinguish from the ancient schools of buddhism.(mahayana, hinayana). the word has no scriptural support and is certainly not a Pali word. Hence i am deleting the part "or Navayāna Buddhism (Pāli नवयान navayāna, literally "new vehicle")" Indian Buddhist practice is general. It does not confirm to any particular school of thought. Though it can be argued that it bears more resemblance to the theravada school but this is my POV. there is not need to mention it. Dr B R Ambedkars 'Buddha and His Dhamma' is considered final authority on all doctrinal matters by Indian Buddhists --Yeditor 11:55, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The name Navayana can not be applicable to present Indian Buddhist Movement because it is a non secterian movement. If you see the All Indian Buddhist Monk Organization it represents all Buddhists in India. Especially from Aasam, Maharashtra and Karnataka. Some scholar's like Gail Omvedtt Or Christopher Queen has used the term 'Navyan i.e. new Vehical' just as a new term than Mahayan and Hinyan. Now all Buddhists are united for liberation of Mahabodhi Vihar, Bodhagaya from Brahmin and Shudras (so-called Hindu) control. All Hindus irrespective of their caste and Varna are anti-Buddhist. So they try to absorb Buddhism in their caste ridden Hindu fold. But '22 vows' given by Bodhisattva Dr. Ambedkar is the heart of present Buddhist movement. Dhammafriend 13:03, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Page title

message: One By one: regarding Gandhi. Most people Indians as well as westerners know Gandhi as the hero of the movie “Gandhi”. If I ask your to refer Dr. Ambedkar’s “Mr. Gandhi and the Emancipation of Untouchables” or “Ranade, Gandhi and Jinnah” , U will reject it as baised, so I am referring you this book“The Gandhi no body knows” by Richard Grenier. Originally written as a critique of the movie “Gandhi”, now this is regarded as Gandhi’s biography. You will be surprised what a loyal soldier of ‘Her Majesty’ Gandhi was.. If you read through the book you will find ample evidence of Gandhi’s unflinching support of every war effort of the British stating from his career in South Africa, Below is an extract
 
“To present the Gandhi of 1893, a conventional caste Hindu, fresh from caste-ridden India where a Paraiyan could
pollute at 64 feet, as the champion of interracial equalitarianism is one of the
most brazen hypocrisies I have ever encountered in a serious movie.
The film, moreover, does not give the slightest hint as to Gandhi's attitude
toward blacks, and the viewers of 'Gandhi' would naturally suppose that, since
the future Great Soul opposed South African discrimination against Indians, he
would also oppose South African discrimination against black people. But this is
not so. While Gandhi, in South Africa, fought furiously to have Indians
recognized as loyal subjects of the British empire, and to have them enjoy the
full rights of Englishmen, he had no concern for blacks whatever. In fact,
during one of the "Kaffir Wars" he volunteered to organize a brigade of Indians
to put down a Zulu rising, and was decorated himself for valor under fire.
For, yes, Gandhi (Sergeant Major Gandhi) was awarded Victoria's coveted War
Medal. Throughout most of his life Gandhi had the most inordinate admiration for
British soldiers, their sense of duty, their discipline and stoicism in defeat
(a trait he emulated himself). He marveled that they retreated with heads high,
like victors. There was even a time in his life when Gandhi, hardly to be
distinguished >from Kipling's Gunga Din, wanted nothing much as to be a Soldier
of the Queen. Since this is not in keeping with the "spirit" of Gandhi, as
decided by Pandit Nehru and Indira Gandhi, it is naturally omitted from he
movie."--Yeditor 13:49, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "The Gandhi nobody knows" is an extremely racist rant cooked up by Grenier. It is full of factual errors ("Khilafat" is a mispronounciation of "Caliphate"?? Come on) and tantamounted to a hate-filled attack against all Indians (Westerners simply put all Indians as "Hindus", whether they are Hindu,Sikh, Muslim, Buddhist, or even Jewish). I seriously doubt that Grenier would even perceive a difference between Hindus and Buddhists. He'd just lump them all into "subhuman brown people", for all his hate and bile. He even went as far as saying that Islam was a "Western Religion" (odd, since today Neoconservatives argue the exact opposite and advocate bombing Muslim countries back to the stone age). The article has been thoroughly refuted by the publication below:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.indian/msg/38b451bdbfbefb61?
Titled :
"Why Gandhi drives the Neoconservatives Crazy".
Read it and be enlightened. In fact, the rebuttal is from the same neoconservative magazine from where Grenier published. Grenier was a neoconservative fanatic and would hate Buddhists EVEN more than he hated Hindus (since classical Buddhism preached nonviolence, and neoconservatives are extremely violent people and wish for war everywhere). Hkelkar 18:31, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Could someone please explain the relevance of Ambedkar merging his party with the Muslim League? What do we learn from this?—Nat Krause(Talk!) 17:59, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Dr. Ambedkar never merged his party with Muslim Leaue. To understand his views about Muslims please read [Partition of India OR Pakistan]. In this book Dr. Ambedkar clearly mentions that Muslim State is danger and Hindu State is very dangerous. Because both the religions are based on blind beliefs. The Buddhist movement in India is becoming stronger to anti-Buddhist Shudra Hindus are writing false things. The Non-Brahmin Hindus are Shudra Hindus. These Shudra Hindus are the enemies of Buddhism. Dhammafriend 14:20, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Dear Nidhi, I think you are pretty much worried about reservation so I request you that don't change your religion. Change your caste. Become a proud Hindu Chamar Or proud Hindu Bhangi and take the benifits of reservation also tell the same thing to all your Hindu i.e. Shudra friends the simplest way to be a Hindu and also to get benifits of reservation. Dhammafriend 14:08, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I am talking in percentages.. When i say all, I mean most. lets not split hair. I dont have so much time to engage in a debate on everything under the sun. So please limit your discussion to the part you want to edit. Regarding buddhists, Before the mass conversion Buddhism was as good as dead in India. It was practiced in a very very insignificant number of people that to in very remote and inaccessible parts of the country like Ladhakh or few north eastern states. Thus it can be safely said that all the buddhists are so called Neo-Buddhists. there are hardly any "upper class" buddhists. a few arun shouries here and there do not count. Moreover the above demand for reservation is as made by John Dayal. I am only quoting him.  --Yeditor 08:49, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

text:  Anybody can convert to Buddhism. But for Hindus 22 vows given by Bodhisattva Dr. Ambedkar are compulsory because they come from a caste ridden, degraded religious and very degraded spiritual background. Hindu Brahmin, Hindu Bhangi, Hindu Bania Or Hindu Chamar all are welcome in Buddhist fold. The Indian Buddhist are broad minded and always accept everybody. Today Buddhism in India is the fastest growing religion. Please read Riddles in Hinduism written by Bodhisattva Ambedkar to know the real truth of Hindu religion. Dhammafriend 14:17, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

text: So you do admit that Ambedkarite pseudo-Buddhists make special reservations for Hindus, which, in on itself, is a racist attitude held by the Ambedkarites.Hkelkar 16:39, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nids and I 

message: I can tell you for a fact that the demand for reservations by these communities has been under that argument that even after they have changed their religion, their caste tag refuses to go and they still suffer discrimination at the hand of Hindus in public services (education, Jobs etc) because of their historical hindu caste . ( as all christians and muslims of were lower castes). I will search adequate references of John Dayal (head of Catholic association) who is championing the cause of reservations for christians and post it here for you. --Yeditor 14:09, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Dear Nidhi, I think you are pretty much worried about reservation so I request you that don't change your religion. Change your caste. Become a proud Hindu Chamar Or proud Hindu Bhangi and take the benifits of reservation also tell the same thing to all your Hindu i.e. Shudra friends the simplest way to be a Hindu and also to get benifits of reservation. Dhammafriend 14:08, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I am talking in percentages.. When i say all, I mean most. lets not split hair. I dont have so much time to engage in a debate on everything under the sun. So please limit your discussion to the part you want to edit. Regarding buddhists, Before the mass conversion Buddhism was as good as dead in India. It was practiced in a very very insignificant number of people that to in very remote and inaccessible parts of the country like Ladhakh or few north eastern states. Thus it can be safely said that all the buddhists are so called Neo-Buddhists. there are hardly any "upper class" buddhists. a few arun shouries here and there do not count. Moreover the above demand for reservation is as made by John Dayal. I am only quoting him.  --Yeditor 08:49, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

text:  Anybody can convert to Buddhism. But for Hindus 22 vows given by Bodhisattva Dr. Ambedkar are compulsory because they come from a caste ridden, degraded religious and very degraded spiritual background. Hindu Brahmin, Hindu Bhangi, Hindu Bania Or Hindu Chamar all are welcome in Buddhist fold. The Indian Buddhist are broad minded and always accept everybody. Today Buddhism in India is the fastest growing religion. Please read Riddles in Hinduism written by Bodhisattva Ambedkar to know the real truth of Hindu religion. Dhammafriend 14:17, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

text: So you do admit that Ambedkarite pseudo-Buddhists make special reservations for Hindus, which, in on itself, is a racist attitude held by the Ambedkarites.Hkelkar 16:39, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Reservations for christians and muslims

message: All users if anything is not acceptable then put a point in the discussion page and then correct it. I have corrected few points such as Proper Understanding of Buddhism. For me it not acceptable in Global Context but I think in Indian Context is it right. Fall of Buddhism and Revival of Buddhism are interesting points for world scholars and especially Buddhist scholars. Don't keep any hate in mind before reverting others comments. The Many Scholars are doing research in India about Buddhism and day by day the relations between Hindus and Buddhist are like fighting modes. So this is not the place to fight. Only debate and corrent the statements to keep the article good and informative. Religion is a sensitive issue so be cool Truthlover 17:10, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  The user Hkelkar is not coming forward for debate as well as not giving contact details to clarify the issues. Dhammafriend 21:43, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Debate and Discuss points

message: Regarding Indian Buddhist Movement article I have asked the user to come for specific points that are not acceptable. But he is showing his anti-Buddhist mindset ans it not open for any discussions. Wiki Administrators except Brahmin and Shudra Varnas please take note of this. Dhammafriend 16:11, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I will also report this ethnic characterization as a personal attack.These edits are severely demented.Hkelkar 16:23, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Please come forward for what kind of attacks are you talking? I have clearly mentioned that the article is about present Buddhist movement in India and current happenings. This year October 2006 millions of people are converting to Buddhism at Nagpur in India. Come and see for the proofs. Dhammafriend 16:26, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

text: You have made several ethnic characterizations in my talk page and on this talk page. Until you stop making ethnic and racial attacks on people I refuse to discuss with you. Please stop, for this is detrimental to the purpose of wikipedia. Just because somebody is Jewish, brahmin, Buddhist or Shudra does not mean that he should/should not edit certain articles or participate in discussion. What you have said so far is BLATANTLY racist and hatemongering and action will be taken to that effect.Hkelkar 16:29, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

text:  Please come to the specific point. If you say all I write is wrong?? This is too much !! For your kind information we oppose all kind of social discrimination like racism, Hindu-casteism, Hindu-untouchability. As a Buddhist from my heart I believe in Equality, Liberty and Fraternity the basic principles of Buddhism. What racism are you talking? I have not called Black or any such remarks. We have Black, White Buddhists in Europe I am working with such Buddhis people Dhammafriend 16:36, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The user [[Hkelkar]] is not following Wikiepedia Directives for discussions and NPOV

message: The only textual edits I've made to this page are, redirects from Navayana and Navayāna, inclusions of a reference section, and the definition of navayāna.
Contrary to what Dhammafriend says, I am an American of Indian descent and a Theravāda Buddhist of former Brahmin caste.
:: Buddhist do not have caste neither they believe any former caste like Brahmin,Bhangi ,Scheduled Caste, OBC caste etc. So don't claim false things. I have Buddhist friends in America who can certainly verify your identity. So if want to discuss you can also meet our Buddhist friends in America so don't try to fool wikipedia community. Who gave you ordination as Buddhist? Do you know the process to become a Buddhist? Dhammafriend 10:13, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Legal system in India have Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist, Christens as Religion. So you can not say is 'referred' ? Its strange. When our cencus is done people are referred as their religion Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim etc. So Navayana is baseless term in every legal sense Dhammafriend 10:13, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is true that there is a publishing house known as Navyana so what? It is not a Buddhist publishing house. It is a book publisher not a religion publisher. So you can't put their name in the Indian Buddhist Movement article because its a religious movement. Dhammafriend 10:13, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

text:  Dr. Ambedkar revived Buddhism in India so you can not brand is Old OR Neo! Its Buddhism. People from Europe /USA are converting to their own found Buddhist practices. All are Buddhist so newly converted people are not branded as neo ! Please also visit www.e-b-u.org. In Indian Context Buddhist from Ladakh, Assam, Maharshtra, Karnataka etc. are a fighting unitedly for Buddhist Revival. Do you know All Indian Buddhist Monk Association ? Especially for Mahabodhi Temple Liberation Movement world Buddhist are united. Buddhist monk from Japan Bhante Surai Sasai is doing best in Central Region of India Nagpur to mobiliese masses Dhammafriend 10:13, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

text: The Article is about Buddhist Movement in India current status and present developments. So it is not about Dr. Ambedkar for that we have separate article so you can post your views there. Not in this article. About Dr. Gail Omvedt you might have read her books only but our friends have arranged her Lecture in IIT Bombay www.iitb.ac.in and all know her personnaly. Dhammafriend 10:13, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Claims that I am anti-Buddhist and source for Navayāna

message: The article is about present Buddhist religious activities in India. There is no violation of POV. Many people who are branded as Hindus from different castes are converting to Buddhism on their own to escape from Hindu Caste System and Hindu Untouchability. Buddhists accepts everybody irrespective of his Hindu Castes. Anybody wants to check he can visit India especially on October 2006 in Nagpur where thousands of people convert each year. Many news are available to check its truth.  Brithish Buddhist, Japanese Buddhists and ShriLankan Buddhists are helping Indian Buddhist to carry out mass conversions. Dhammafriend 18:15, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: NPOV Buddhist Movement Crossing Hindu Caste Barriers

message: Recently, User:Dhammafriend moved this page from Neo-Buddhism to Indian Buddhist Movement with the explanation, "Movement started by Dr. Ambedkar is known as Modern Buddhist Movement. Dr. Ambedkar rejected many theories of even traditional Buddhists especially the reason of renunciations i.e. myth propagated by Buddhists of 4 sites seen by Prince.". I will agree that, when I wrote the initial version of this page, I wasn't sure if Neo-Buddhism was really the best title, but it has the advantage of being used occasionally outside of Wikipedia. Where does the expression "Indian Buddhist Movement" come from? It's all capitalised, as if it were a proper name; "Indian Buddhist movement" sounds like it could apply to any form of Buddhism in India.—Nat Krause(Talk!) 19:53, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm also interested to see a source for the name Navayana, which is now listed as the Pali name for this movement.—Nat Krause(Talk!) 19:30, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no source for the name. It is used a default name used by some so as to distinguish from the ancient schools of buddhism.(mahayana, hinayana). the word has no scriptural support and is certainly not a Pali word. Hence i am deleting the part "or Navayāna Buddhism (Pāli नवयान navayāna, literally "new vehicle")" Indian Buddhist practice is general. It does not confirm to any particular school of thought. Though it can be argued that it bears more resemblance to the theravada school but this is my POV. there is not need to mention it. Dr B R Ambedkars 'Buddha and His Dhamma' is considered final authority on all doctrinal matters by Indian Buddhists --Yeditor 11:55, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The name Navayana can not be applicable to present Indian Buddhist Movement because it is a non secterian movement. If you see the All Indian Buddhist Monk Organization it represents all Buddhists in India. Especially from Aasam, Maharashtra and Karnataka. Some scholar's like Gail Omvedtt Or Christopher Queen has used the term 'Navyan i.e. new Vehical' just as a new term than Mahayan and Hinyan. Now all Buddhists are united for liberation of Mahabodhi Vihar, Bodhagaya from Brahmin and Shudras (so-called Hindu) control. All Hindus irrespective of their caste and Varna are anti-Buddhist. So they try to absorb Buddhism in their caste ridden Hindu fold. But '22 vows' given by Bodhisattva Dr. Ambedkar is the heart of present Buddhist movement. Dhammafriend 13:03, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Page title

message: One By one: regarding Gandhi. Most people Indians as well as westerners know Gandhi as the hero of the movie “Gandhi”. If I ask your to refer Dr. Ambedkar’s “Mr. Gandhi and the Emancipation of Untouchables” or “Ranade, Gandhi and Jinnah” , U will reject it as baised, so I am referring you this book“The Gandhi no body knows” by Richard Grenier. Originally written as a critique of the movie “Gandhi”, now this is regarded as Gandhi’s biography. You will be surprised what a loyal soldier of ‘Her Majesty’ Gandhi was.. If you read through the book you will find ample evidence of Gandhi’s unflinching support of every war effort of the British stating from his career in South Africa, Below is an extract
 
“To present the Gandhi of 1893, a conventional caste Hindu, fresh from caste-ridden India where a Paraiyan could
pollute at 64 feet, as the champion of interracial equalitarianism is one of the
most brazen hypocrisies I have ever encountered in a serious movie.
The film, moreover, does not give the slightest hint as to Gandhi's attitude
toward blacks, and the viewers of 'Gandhi' would naturally suppose that, since
the future Great Soul opposed South African discrimination against Indians, he
would also oppose South African discrimination against black people. But this is
not so. While Gandhi, in South Africa, fought furiously to have Indians
recognized as loyal subjects of the British empire, and to have them enjoy the
full rights of Englishmen, he had no concern for blacks whatever. In fact,
during one of the "Kaffir Wars" he volunteered to organize a brigade of Indians
to put down a Zulu rising, and was decorated himself for valor under fire.
For, yes, Gandhi (Sergeant Major Gandhi) was awarded Victoria's coveted War
Medal. Throughout most of his life Gandhi had the most inordinate admiration for
British soldiers, their sense of duty, their discipline and stoicism in defeat
(a trait he emulated himself). He marveled that they retreated with heads high,
like victors. There was even a time in his life when Gandhi, hardly to be
distinguished >from Kipling's Gunga Din, wanted nothing much as to be a Soldier
of the Queen. Since this is not in keeping with the "spirit" of Gandhi, as
decided by Pandit Nehru and Indira Gandhi, it is naturally omitted from he
movie."--Yeditor 13:49, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "The Gandhi nobody knows" is an extremely racist rant cooked up by Grenier. It is full of factual errors ("Khilafat" is a mispronounciation of "Caliphate"?? Come on) and tantamounted to a hate-filled attack against all Indians (Westerners simply put all Indians as "Hindus", whether they are Hindu,Sikh, Muslim, Buddhist, or even Jewish). I seriously doubt that Grenier would even perceive a difference between Hindus and Buddhists. He'd just lump them all into "subhuman brown people", for all his hate and bile. He even went as far as saying that Islam was a "Western Religion" (odd, since today Neoconservatives argue the exact opposite and advocate bombing Muslim countries back to the stone age). The article has been thoroughly refuted by the publication below:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.indian/msg/38b451bdbfbefb61?
Titled :
"Why Gandhi drives the Neoconservatives Crazy".
Read it and be enlightened. In fact, the rebuttal is from the same neoconservative magazine from where Grenier published. Grenier was a neoconservative fanatic and would hate Buddhists EVEN more than he hated Hindus (since classical Buddhism preached nonviolence, and neoconservatives are extremely violent people and wish for war everywhere). Hkelkar 18:31, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Could someone please explain the relevance of Ambedkar merging his party with the Muslim League? What do we learn from this?—Nat Krause(Talk!) 17:59, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Dr. Ambedkar never merged his party with Muslim Leaue. To understand his views about Muslims please read [Partition of India OR Pakistan]. In this book Dr. Ambedkar clearly mentions that Muslim State is danger and Hindu State is very dangerous. Because both the religions are based on blind beliefs. The Buddhist movement in India is becoming stronger to anti-Buddhist Shudra Hindus are writing false things. The Non-Brahmin Hindus are Shudra Hindus. These Shudra Hindus are the enemies of Buddhism. Dhammafriend 14:20, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Dear Nidhi, I think you are pretty much worried about reservation so I request you that don't change your religion. Change your caste. Become a proud Hindu Chamar Or proud Hindu Bhangi and take the benifits of reservation also tell the same thing to all your Hindu i.e. Shudra friends the simplest way to be a Hindu and also to get benifits of reservation. Dhammafriend 14:08, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I am talking in percentages.. When i say all, I mean most. lets not split hair. I dont have so much time to engage in a debate on everything under the sun. So please limit your discussion to the part you want to edit. Regarding buddhists, Before the mass conversion Buddhism was as good as dead in India. It was practiced in a very very insignificant number of people that to in very remote and inaccessible parts of the country like Ladhakh or few north eastern states. Thus it can be safely said that all the buddhists are so called Neo-Buddhists. there are hardly any "upper class" buddhists. a few arun shouries here and there do not count. Moreover the above demand for reservation is as made by John Dayal. I am only quoting him.  --Yeditor 08:49, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

text:  Anybody can convert to Buddhism. But for Hindus 22 vows given by Bodhisattva Dr. Ambedkar are compulsory because they come from a caste ridden, degraded religious and very degraded spiritual background. Hindu Brahmin, Hindu Bhangi, Hindu Bania Or Hindu Chamar all are welcome in Buddhist fold. The Indian Buddhist are broad minded and always accept everybody. Today Buddhism in India is the fastest growing religion. Please read Riddles in Hinduism written by Bodhisattva Ambedkar to know the real truth of Hindu religion. Dhammafriend 14:17, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

text: So you do admit that Ambedkarite pseudo-Buddhists make special reservations for Hindus, which, in on itself, is a racist attitude held by the Ambedkarites.Hkelkar 16:39, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nids and I 

message: I can tell you for a fact that the demand for reservations by these communities has been under that argument that even after they have changed their religion, their caste tag refuses to go and they still suffer discrimination at the hand of Hindus in public services (education, Jobs etc) because of their historical hindu caste . ( as all christians and muslims of were lower castes). I will search adequate references of John Dayal (head of Catholic association) who is championing the cause of reservations for christians and post it here for you. --Yeditor 14:09, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Dear Nidhi, I think you are pretty much worried about reservation so I request you that don't change your religion. Change your caste. Become a proud Hindu Chamar Or proud Hindu Bhangi and take the benifits of reservation also tell the same thing to all your Hindu i.e. Shudra friends the simplest way to be a Hindu and also to get benifits of reservation. Dhammafriend 14:08, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I am talking in percentages.. When i say all, I mean most. lets not split hair. I dont have so much time to engage in a debate on everything under the sun. So please limit your discussion to the part you want to edit. Regarding buddhists, Before the mass conversion Buddhism was as good as dead in India. It was practiced in a very very insignificant number of people that to in very remote and inaccessible parts of the country like Ladhakh or few north eastern states. Thus it can be safely said that all the buddhists are so called Neo-Buddhists. there are hardly any "upper class" buddhists. a few arun shouries here and there do not count. Moreover the above demand for reservation is as made by John Dayal. I am only quoting him.  --Yeditor 08:49, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

text:  Anybody can convert to Buddhism. But for Hindus 22 vows given by Bodhisattva Dr. Ambedkar are compulsory because they come from a caste ridden, degraded religious and very degraded spiritual background. Hindu Brahmin, Hindu Bhangi, Hindu Bania Or Hindu Chamar all are welcome in Buddhist fold. The Indian Buddhist are broad minded and always accept everybody. Today Buddhism in India is the fastest growing religion. Please read Riddles in Hinduism written by Bodhisattva Ambedkar to know the real truth of Hindu religion. Dhammafriend 14:17, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

text: So you do admit that Ambedkarite pseudo-Buddhists make special reservations for Hindus, which, in on itself, is a racist attitude held by the Ambedkarites.Hkelkar 16:39, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Reservations for christians and muslims

message: In the Reference section, there is a link to an unsourced POV article from voi.org, which appears to be a site more familiar with Hinduism than Buddhism. This article is not an appropriate reference because its neutrality is highly questionable.
::It illustrated the Viewpoint of some scholars regarding neo-Buddhism so can be linked as a partisan viewpoint. Per WP:RS it can be qualified.Hkelkar 12:24, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Let the Hindu views also come forward about the Indian Buddhist Movement. So reference to VOI does not make any problem to the Buddhist article. Ambedkaritebuddhist 10:48, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So the Goenka ref is also disallowed because it is from a aprtisan Neo-Buddhist source that mandates the genocide of Hindus ^_^.Hkelkar 19:57, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hello Kelkar, You have reverted all the changes and vandalised the articles with all links. All references and links are reverted by you. "Ase karane mhanaje chukiche kam aahe. Links dilya aahet na" 195.128.2.67 08:34, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

text: "Na mi bandhu. WP:RS padha".Hkelkar 16:16, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  VOI link 

message: :Do not remove the sourced edits of ambedkaritebuddhist. To do so is patterm vandalism and you will be indefblocked if you persist. 
You are reverting article using popups so have discussion before reverting SOURCED information. Revert No. 1
 Welcome to Wikipedia. We invite everyone to contribute constructively to our encyclopedia. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing. However, unconstructive edits are considered vandalism, and if you continue in this manner you may be blocked from editing without further warning. Please stop, and consider improving rather than damaging the work of others. Thank you.  Ambedkaritebuddhist 14:17, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism of [[Indian Buddhist Movement]] by User [[User:Hkelkar|Hkelkar]]

message: Where is the proof or at least the indication that Goenka is associated with the Indian Buddhist movement. If there is no such proof then the section about him should be moved to Buddhism in India.Andries 17:26, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Why not write simply that Goenka has been a meditation teacher for some members of the Indian Buddhist movement and leave it at that? Andries 22:44, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Goenka is associated with the Indian Buddhist movement?

message: The first step is to change the name of the article. It pretends to represent all Indian Buddhists, when it is actually a POV mouthpiece for the Ambhedkar Buddhist movement.  HeBhagawan 15:35, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What is the relation between this article and Buddhism in India? Andries 16:32, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

text: No relation at all. Buddhism in India is about the history and religion of Buddhism as it existed historically. Buddhism fizzled out in India during the latter half of the first Millenium following Adi Shankara's Hindu Revival.The so-called Indian Buddhist Movement as described here is neither Indian nor Buddhist nor a movement. This article describes a minor fringe of extremists who call themselves "Ambedkarites" and are but a small part of the overall Buddhist revivalism (started by Ambedkar in the 20th century). The Indian Buddhist movement is a very complex and intricate web of believers and followers and this article has been taken over by a fringe element of fanatics who are espousing a narrow view of it.Hkelkar 16:41, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

text: When I read the article I do not get the impression that it is about Indian Buddhism in general. It is already clear that the aricle is about the Ambedkar Buddhist movement. Andries 17:15, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

text: What has Goenka to do with this article? Andries 17:24, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Goenka is an important figure among Indian Buddhists. He NOT an ambedkarite but he is an Indian Buddhist and but doing his best to propagate Buddhism in India.  The latest Buddhist Pagoda construction in Mumbai, Maharashtra state and his Viapassana Academy in Igatpuri are playing important roles for Buddhist Movement in India. 10:03, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Search me.This is why I posted the RfC. Some fresh pairs of eyes are desperately needed here.Hkelkar 17:28, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

text: In particular look at my last sourced edit  from "The Week", which satisfies WP:RS and is part of the NPOV schema of criticizing everything a little at the end but the Neo-Buddhists mass-reverted them and started personal attacks in my talk page.Hkelkar 17:58, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Everywhere the Article is shows that it is a Well Sourced Article. You can see reference number 1 to all! The claim by HKelkar that "entire article is unsourced" is false. Ambedkaritebuddhist 09:48, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: This entire article is unsourced

message: So-called Ambedkarite concept is not applied to particular Religion such as Hindu, Christen, Or Buddhist. "According to the 2001 census, there are currently 7.95 million Buddhists in India i.e.0.8 % of total population of India, at least 5.83 million of whom are Buddhists in Maharashtra." This is the only MINORITY Population of Buddhists in India. Compared to 1951 census the  percentage increase compared to any other Religion such as Hindu OR Muslim the Buddhist population in India growing fast. Especially because of religious conversion. In 2006 thousands of people have converted to Buddhism and International Media such as BBC and may others have given proper news about it. The article Indian Buddhist Movement is about only Buddhist people in India and their religious activities.Ambedkaritebuddhist 09:57, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The anti-Buddhist Brahmin people say that there are no Buddhist people at all in India also they argue that there is no Indian Buddhist Movement. They say only few Ambedkarites are writing the article. To PROVE the point that there is a very strong BUDDHIST MOVEMENT in India I gave them the actual and practicle Data Available on official CENCUS web site of India. There are millions of Ambedkarite all over India and world but all are not converted to Buddhism by taking 22 vows. So the people who are denouncing Caste based Hindu Religon and CONVERTING to Buddhism are Buddhist. Rest of the people in Govt. cencus is FORCIBLY and Cheatingly calculated as Hindu. To prove our point finally we have to give official data. So lets convert more people to Buddhism and show the world that Indian Buddhist Movement is alive and wrowing faster.Don't waste much time with debating hypocrate people but give PROPER REFERENCES and PROOFS and shut the mouth of such people. Take my inputs as positive manner. Ambedkaritebuddhist 16:23, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: ALL so-called Ambedkarites are NOT Buddhists in India they are still HINDU

message: I have gone through the whole discussions on talk page. Aryah, Ambedkaritebuddhist,  Dhammafriend and all other users you should understand Hindu religion its basic is Varnashrama dharma. It is the bad karma of past birth that has made somebody as Lower Caste. You can blame GOD for that but please don't write any useless things on this so-called Indian Buddhist Movement. There are no Buddhists in India. I a upper caste Brahmin so I proud of it. Is there anything wrong?. There is no any Buddhist Movement. Holybrahmin 11:28, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree with Holybrahmin that "there is no Buddhist movement in India". I have personally seen Buddhist pilgrims going to the Holy tree of enlightenement in North India. While it is true that the Buddhist movement is weak, it is not nonexistent. Having said that, I must qualify that the editors POV-pushing in this article are NEO-Buddhists, who are a fringe movement within the larger Indian Buddhist movement and are essentially a cult along the lines of scientology or Jews for Jesus in America. Basically they CLAIM to be Buddhists but, in fact, are not. They have a political and cultural agenda behind their activities that has very little to do with normative Buddhism.Hkelkar 18:32, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Keep Hindu basics with you only. Don't vandalise Buddhist Article. Ambedkaritebuddhist 15:59, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Some basics about Hindu Religion

message: :Then how do you explain this:
Burakumin#Religious_discrimination_against_burakumin
Aniother dirty little secret.Hkelkar 19:19, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hkelkar The article is about Indian Buddhist Movement NOT Japan Buddhist. so why are you bringing Japanese Social issues here? Use Common Sense also and better put your views on Japanese Buddhists related pages. In Indian Buddhists don’t believe any discrimination that is why millions Hindus are converting to Buddhism. See the latest developments. Don't mix the issues. Ambedkaritebuddhist 16:02, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Not so secret. Japanese Buddhists also supported the persecution of Christians (see Martyrs of Japan) and Japanese imperialism in the early 20th century. Buddhists have done ugly things in the name of Buddhism. I'm not sure that there's a religion that's not stained with blood. The question is what the religion is doing now -- is it rejecting doctrines that led to misery in the past, or is it insisting on them as essential to the religion? Contemporary Buddhism seems to me to be complicit with the power structure in some countries, sometimes fat, lackadaisical, and superstitious but ... the only part of the world where Buddhists have bloody hands at the moment is Sri Lanka. If Hindus would reject the caste system then it would no longer be a defect in Hinduism and the lower castes wouldn't feel any need to reject a religion that stigmatized them. It makes no sense to criticize them for converting, and only hold out the hope that Hinduism will change "eventually." Change first and THEN see if the dalits still want to leave. Don't criticize people for leaving a burning building. Zora 08:48, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

text: ..and entering another one?As far as I can tell Hindus have gone through their fair share of reform movements as well (Brahmo Samaj, Arya Samaj, Vivekananda, Vidyasagar etc).You don't see Dalits getting molten metal poured into their eyes like in the 10th century right? Besides, Casteism is a political matter now, not a religious one.Near as I can see only the racist missionaries and mad mullahs try to conflate it with religion as part of an agenda.Hkelkar 20:02, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: So Buddhism aims to "cross caste barriers", eh?

message: It was said in an edit by Dhammafriend that Omvedt's view are criticized by Indian Buddhist Leaders, yet she has a page on Ambedkar.org? [] and several writings [] Thegreyanomaly 04:40, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Gail's views are on Ambedkar.org then what? Those people have full right to put anything on their site. It is a site handled by few Buddhist Intellectuals. Study how to give respect to Intellectuals views. Dhammafriend 22:41, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Regarding Edits regarding Gail Omvedt

message: Dear all, HKelkar, Thegreyanomaly and Holybrahmin you people take care while writing on this article. I have read all comments and discussion. Don't vandalise. HKelkar you have removed warnings with proof and link which I put on your talk page. HKelkar even equated poor Indain Buddhists with NLFT. I'll surely take action against it. Thegreyanomaly you also reverted article to Holybrahim changes. All of you working together against Buddhists. Your language is prejudiced against Buddhists. Reverts without discussion are common from you. 
Now Aryah, Dhammafriend and Yeditor you have add information with more right link and proofs. Debate in a civilized manner. Don't be too aggressive agaisnt Hinduism. Its better to concentrate to make the the article more informative and useful . Watch the Language and Word used by all above users and complain Administrators. Especiall read their Talk Pages. If they revert their talk pages let them do. Also ask for proofs for all Hindu related articles and FACTS for their comments especially anti-Hindu article ! RFC Put by HKelkar is pending so don't vandalise and get more unbiased people for discussion.
Ambedkaritebuddhist 16:30, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: HKelkar, Thegreyanomaly, Holybrahmin and Aryah, Dhammafriend, Yeditor have proper discussion

message: Reading this discussion page, I am seeing inflamatory and bigoted rhetoric against both Hindus and Buddhists. Wikipeida articles are supposed to be NPOV. So don't take partisan positions. Just report the facts that you have good citations for, and do it in a neutral manner.HeBhagawan 01:32, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes you are correct.Somebody needs to keep the whack-jobs on both sides in check. It is truly a very sad thing that the bigotry comes from both sides, extremist Neo-Buddhist thugs and extremely Brahmanno-supremacist kooks. Neither of them are helping here.Hkelkar 01:42, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Stop the Bigotry

message: :HKelkar is reverting article using popups so have discussion before reverting SOURCED information. Kherlanji Buddhist family Massacred
 Welcome to Wikipedia. We invite everyone to contribute constructively to our encyclopedia. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing. However, unconstructive edits are considered vandalism, and if you continue in this manner you may be blocked from editing without further warning. Please stop, and consider improving rather than damaging the work of others. Thank you.  Dhammafriend 15:21, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've been trying to do as you suggest, but Dhammafriend and his sockpuppets keep revert-warring and vandalizing.I am doing my level best to keep it neutral and unbiased. Please continue with your suggestions. I value them greatly.Hkelkar 05:43, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism of [[Indian Buddhist Movement]] about Kherlanji Buddhist family Massacred

message: I strongly believe in the destruction of this article. Its basis of existence was trampled on the moment it was renamed from Neo-Buddhism. As far as my knowledge goes the only Buddhist movements within in India are Ambedkarite. Ambedkarites form their own school of thought. They do not fit within the old schools. They are a 'New Vehicle'. They are Navayāna as Gail Omvedt and others have name them. At the moment I feel the article should be disintegrated and merged with Buddhism in India. I really do not have much to say, but I no longer want to be associated to this article as long as people who fit on to an extreme like Dhammafriend or Holybrahmin have access to it. 
Thegreyanomaly 06:58, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: My Response to the RfC as [[User talk: Thegreyanomaly|requested]]

message: The article gives interesting and valuable information about Buddhists in India. Even tough Buddhism is from India we are surprised to know that the Buddhists are finished in India and only less than 1% are there. It is good to know that somebody is putting efforts for Buddhist Movement. The article is valuable and the people who are against Buddhists or Buddhist Movments can write comments with references. My Buddhist friends in different countries were surprised when I showed them this article. Be a positive contributor dont be a destructive. Anagarik Dhammapala is one of the key buddhist monk from Shrilanka who revived Buddhism. Shrilankabuddhist 15:00, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: My Response to the RfC for [[Indian Buddhist Movement]]

message: Hello, Our shrilankan Buddhist Monks are playing a great role in reviving Buddhism in India. 2006 thousands of oppressed caste Hindus are converting to Buddhism. Don't revert sourced edits otherwise all anti-Buddhist will have to face action Shrilankabuddhist 14:34, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism by anti-Buddhist elements

message: If you scroll up on the talk page for Indian Buddhist Movement, you'll find that I have made a complete analysis of this article with several suggestions.  Would you care to comment on them, or provide further information in response to my suggestions!  Any input would be greatly appreciated.
I'm want to buy a book or two on this topic so that I can help improve this article.  Are there any books that you would recommend on this ?
In the article that you are trying to include in the Indian Buddhist Movement article, it says 300,000 people.  That is three hundred thousand, not three million.  Furthermore, I have found no other article that makes the same assertion.  In fact, the Times of India stated 30 people in it's article covering the same event.  
I understand that number is probably wrong. Can you provide an article from a source that doesn't have "Buddhism" or "Buddha" in the title of the reporting organization?  I think that would meet with less criticism.  
It's an unfortunate reality that critics of this article will not let you move foward if you don't provide sources that are absolutely above reproach.  I am no such critic.  I genuinely wish to help you improve the information about this important and notable topic.
::This article is related to Buddhist so information regarding Buddhist Activites is given. If you want to put non-Buddhist information then you can create new articles. Shrilankabuddhist 12:33, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks like he has trouble understanding the idea of non-partisan WP:Reliable Sources.Hkelkar 12:41, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: By Srilankabuddhist's logic I am allowed to cite this into the article as well. Hkelkar 12:53, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As a Buddhist I will accept unbiased views. You can add the above link in the Buddhist article Sri Lankan Buddhism. We are not like Hindus who belived in Caste System and try to potray their religion as best with Dalit problem and intruders like Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam. These Hindus organizations have destroyed peace in our Nation. All Hindus here should not destroy Buddhist Articles. Londan, Berlin and even Indian many Buddhist Viharas are controlled by Shrilankan Buddhist Monks.  You can write anything related to Buddhist and Buddhism all over world. We accept good and bad things you should also accept both things.Shrilankabuddhist 17:46, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See WP:TROLL and Racism.Hkelkar 05:38, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Hi Shrilankbuddhist

message: This article has nothing to do with the religion of Buddhism. Its something to do with Indian politics and political events. This article can at best be deleted without further ado. Its a waste of server space. Its contents are not encyclopediac. See WP:NOT#Wikipedia_is_not_a_soapbox ­ ॐ Kris (☎ talk | contribs) 22:03, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: wtf@? Even if this article is about Indian politics, why should it be deleted?&mdashNat Krause(Talk!)
I agree with Kris's proposal. The good stuff from this article should be merged with Buddhism in India (perhaps a short section there titled "Indian Buddhist revival") and this woeful article should be scrapped. Hkelkar 23:43, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  RfC reply 

message: ShrilankaBuddhist, I removed this section because Hkelkar created an article about it. [Kerlanji Massacre] is where you would want to put such things, if they're unbiased and the source is well-established. Please see the talk page first before adding anything. NinaEliza 18:16, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The Khairlanji Buddhist Massacre is about a poor Buddhist family becaue 2006 many Dalits converted to Buddhism so Hindus are killing innocent masses. The issue has to be addressed in Hindu Criticism or Hindu Reaction to mass Buddhist conversions. Shrilankabuddhist 19:02, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No reliable source reflects any of this rubbish. Hkelkar 19:15, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Why I removed sourced edit

message: The whole page is really confusing to start with. I would rather suggest that the editors that are involved in editing this article – comment here and put forward their sources / internet weblinks so that a few mediators can decide which is in conformity with WP:V and WP:RS. Best wishes. — Nearly Headless Nick {L} 13:09, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dispute resolution and organisation 

message: I launched into a soliloquoy that really didn't make my point. Forgive me, I was tired.
Let me be a little more direct, Wikipedia doesn't label religous groups of any kind, ever.  No matter what scholars, journalists, 99% percent of the population, or the pope himself have to say about the matter, Wikipedia simply does not do it.
Lets, hypothetically, assume the worst about this group. In short, that they're not a religious movement, or socio-political protest, but some kind of dangerous, evil cult. Now lets look at the Wikipedia articles on the :Branch Davidians and the :Unification Church.  You can also look at :Scientology or :Jews for Jesus for good measure.
Take a look at these articles. You can read the whole thing, but really the first paragraph will do.  While many, many people believe that these are dangerous cults, not once will Wikipedia call them cults.  Wikipedia will report that many, many people call them cults, and that's the end of it.  That is because Wikipedia refers to facts in their characterisations, not outside labels - no matter how lofty a place they come from. It is not Wikipedia's place or mission to label an entire group of people something that they do not call themselves.
It's a non-issue, and the discussion should end here.
NinaEliza 22:41, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "Do you have any sources to suggest what these Buddhist actually call themselves? They call themselves Dalits for all I know".
I have the vociferous complaints of the editors on this very talk page who self-identify as Buddhist, for one.  Please read the entire talk page, I'll be happy to provide as many diffs as you like if you choose not to. For more sources, there are several websites devoted to this.  While they can't be used in the article, they certainly can be used to clear up this point.
 "Moreover I know my Wiki conventions far better than you. It is also not Wikipedia's mission to serve as a PR source"
What I do and do not know is arguable, and remains to be seen. I'm certainly not advocating that Wikipedia or this article become a PR source, either for the movement itself or for those who oppose them."Firstly, Buddhism never died in India".
I quite agree with you, if the internet is any indication. I've found 45 different Buddhist groups of varying strength in a directory aimed at listing Buddhist groups throughout the world (on a side note, I plan to contact as many of these groups as I can, for a seperate matter). That was just a cursory bit of research, and not aimed at that particular assertion.  I'm sure more energtic research will reveal more.
"It's a non-issue, and the discussion should end here. statements such as these show your unwillingness to debate and discuss the issue at hand. Anti-thetical to cardinal Wiki covention!'"
Since we have a difference of opinion, I suggest that we let an admin sort it out, and you're free to seek one of your own choosing if you so desire. However, I'd like to point out that an admin (Blnguyen) has asserted the exact same thing on this very talk page. Again, please read the entire talk page, it's much appreciated.NinaEliza 17:59, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The term "Neo-Buddhists"

message: As I said 'Indian Buddhist revival' is a farily non-standard name for the movement. Moreover it is pretty much an exclusivist Dalit sect. Hardly a pan-Indian revival movement as the title paint it out to be...
  अमेय आर्यन DaBroodey  15:06, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello, I am not a Hindu Dalit.Officially all Dalits (SC/ST) are Hindus. Please see Cencus India. We have a approx. 250 million population of SC/ST in India and officially the term Dalit do not have any recognition. It is widely used for Hindu Untouchable people. Who were mistreated under the Hindu Religious Laws.
We also support the Buddhist Activities in India. Buddhist Revival is a Non-Violent Conversion Movement. Most of the people from sevaral castes are converting to Buddhism. The minority Buddhist Population is scattered all over India. UP, Punjab, Arunachal, Tripura, Maharashtra, Andhra Pradesh many other states the Buddhist Population is scattered. Buddhists are hardly 0.8 % of whole India's population. Pkulkarni 18:42, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hindu Mobs are killing innocent Buddhists. Shrilankabuddhist 15:48, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sinhala Fundamentalist Buddhist mass-murderers are killing innocent Hindus and here and hereHkelkar 03:04, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Maybe. I won't argue on the point of who gets the most "oppression brownie points". My contention is not that the Dalits do not have the right to protest, they do. What they did not have the right to do was burn down trains and throw rocks at people. That may work in Saudi Arabia or wherever, but a democracy like ours need to have higher standards. Look at the Hispanics in the 2006_U.S._immigration_reform_protests in America. Hardly a single incidence of violence. Hkelkar 20:15, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

text:  People involved in violence are Hindus Or low-caste-Hindus they are not BUDDHISTS. Read the news properly.  For Hindu violence you can not blame minority Buddhists. Hindu Riots. If uncivilized Hindus are doing riots for that no one can blame Buddhists Pkulkarni 15:03, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I do understand what is WikiPedia. The riots in India are laid by low-caste-Hindus. Read all news papers well before commenting. Before founding Republican Party of India Dr. Ambedkar died on 6th Dec. 1956 if Hindus are misusing his party name then ite their problem. The Buddhists are not the supporter of one political party in India. You should not mix Religious Movement article with Political parties. Don't give warped reasong. Also change your BuddhistPhobia Pkulkarni 12:46, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reasons for the move 

message: Pkulkarni desist from revert warring. This article is specifically about a Dalit Buddhist sect. Buddhism in India is perhaps the article you are looking for...
 अमेय आर्यन DaBrood© 19:26, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is HKelkar and  अमेय आर्यन DaBrood are reverting the article without having proper dispute resolution. I am an Indian Buddhist and not from any Hindu Caste. Non-Hindu Wiki Administrators should look into it.  Pkulkarni 12:43, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revert War! 

message: This article is about <B>Indian</b> Buddhist revival but few users especially from USA and UK are destroying the article without proper understanding of the subject. They are mixing the Issue of minority Indian Buddhists with low-caste-Hindus. The Buddhist are less than 0.8% and since few years many Hindus are converting to Buddhism. But the anti-Buddhists people are vanadalizing the article again and again Pkulkarni 12:51, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Anti-Indians are reverting article