Talk:Wendy Yoshimura

message: :Image:Yoshimura webpage.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot (talk) 03:17, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Yoshimura webpage.JPG

message: This whole article is POV. Yoshimura or her supporters are clearly busy at work whitewashing her past. A sad day for Wikipedia, but more and more the trend to dance delicately around socialist friends. Proxy User (talk) 21:05, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: (User banned as a WP:Sockpuppet)Mercurywoodrose (talk) 02:02, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

text: I assume this is the "NPOV disputed" section of the talk page? Is there a verifiable fact you feel the article still excludes? I would be happy to source it. Otherwise, I think we should call the POV dispute resolved and remove the  boilerplate. ClaudeReigns (talk) 10:41, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

text: *I am removing the boilerplate now. Please feel free to discuss any further suggestions or tag any instances of non-neutrality in the article. Thank you. ClaudeReigns (talk) 04:46, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Whitewash 

message: I deleted many speculative assertions and modified others to conform with verifiable fact. In addition, I deleted material that was inappropriate for its placement (i.e.: the intro graph) or because it gave undue weight to disputed or minor details. Claude Reigns decided that citations, no matter how dubious (Larry King?) or distorted, trump criticality.
Intro: I deleted "...she became involved in radical politics during her last year of art college after meeting Willie Brandt. She became a member of the SLA, a violent 1970's group that was said to practice brainwashing, as well as another early terrorist group, the "Revolutionary Army."" These are the reasons: It introduces Brandt without context; it abuses the term "member"; it ridiculously elevates and selects "brainwashing" as a primary characteristic the SLA "was known for," when that clearly contradicts the record; it flips chronology by placing "Revolutionary Army" after SLA; it fails to provide facts that put that so-called "Army" into perspective (there were at most five people involved in all the "Army's" planning and actions). I also deleted the closing sentence, which simply cherry picks details included in a single Patrick Hoge article and asserts them as verified and worthy of inclusion in the intro. 
Revolutionary Activity: I deleted the intro "Patty Hearst has described Yoshimura as an "explosives expert,"[1] but on Larry King, Hearst backtracked and distinguished her from other SLA members, calling Yoshimura "fundamentally a good person."[3] Because she has refused to name participants in crimes or discuss the victims of those crimes, the San Francisco Chronicle has described her as tight-lipped and "an enigma."" It's incoherent. A book reviewer, in the process of describing a novel, made reference to Hearst's appearance on Larry King's TV show in which Hearst supposedly called Yoshimura "a good person." How does this tertiary reference rebut Hearst's own characterization of Yoshimura as an "explosives expert" in "Every Secret Thing," Hearst's own non-fiction account? Why does the Wikipedia citation justifying "explosives expert" point to Hoge's article when he took it directly from Hearst's book? Why should the term "explosives expert" survive in the article as a valid characterization of Yoshimura when, as noted above, the same book explicitly states that in fact Kilgore was the group's explosive expert, not Yoshimura? This segment is just a mess before even taking into account the "living person" standard (which does not say "if anybody said or wrote it about them, it's a verified fact").  
Revolutionary Army: I deleted the self-evident adjective "radical" from the article's description of, ahem, a group calling itself "The Revolutionary Army"; I added the adjective "so-called," and added the factual statement that the so-called "Army" never had more than five "members" -- a fact that seems to provide the reader with information useful in determining how to appraise and understand the nature of this "Army." I also deleted a reference to Brandt having been arrested while "driving a car belonging to Yoshimura" because, while it could well be true, I could find no authenticating source for that information.
Symbionese Liberation Army: I deleted "The four were abandoned during the summer of 1974 by other radical underground groups, a key factor leading to the capture of Hearst and Yoshimura" because, although the cited Time Magazine article did describe pragmatic disaffection (the Weathermen were afraid Hearst was too hot), it doesn't make a case that 1) the group was widely supported by the left in the first place (it wasn't), 2) the Weathermen keeping their distance was an instance of a widespread sea change on the part of the left (it wasn't), 3) the split was "key" to the subsequent arrest. The fugitives' residency in rural Pennsylvania and upstate New York was made possible entirely as a result of outside leftist support, coordinated by Jack Scott, who supplied Yoshimura as part of his effort to keep the group from too much public contact. These facts appear in multiple sources including the Time article, which does not state or support the Wikipedia article's "key" assertion.
Symbionese Liberation Army II: I delete unsupported statements (it is by no means clear that Yoshimura headed to the West Coast in advance of the others, only that she went alone). I note that the group departed from a second rural hideout, one in Upstate New York (the Wikipedia article notes only the Pennsylvania location). I state that Yoshimura went to San Francisco, the others to Sacramento (verifiable via multiple sources, including Every Secret Thing and The Voices of Guns; these two books, Anyone's Daughter, and court transcripts, combine to provide the actual source material for almost all the secondary citations in the Wikipedia article).
Symbionese Liberation Army III: I try to synthesize and summarize all authoritative accounts of the Sacramento bank robbery that finally resulted in the group's relocation to San Francisco. 
Arrest and Conviction: I provide the full Shana Alexander quotation, since if it has any validity at all with respect to explaining public support for Yoshimura the whole section does a better job than the first part does on its own.
Grand Jury Investigation: Yet another of 15 instances where Wikipedia cites a single SF Chronicle story, this time asserting as fact what a former Assistant DA claims is in the sealed GJ record. What is known is that Yoshimura was granted limited immunity, she testified, no indictments resulted, her immunity remained intact -- and when indictments were issued a decade later and the defendants were convicted, her status did not change.
I have to submit that my revisions eliminated speculation and rumor misrepresented as fact, and added clarity and balance without bias. I'm going to revert (and maybe slightly edit).
Hilarie.lang (talk) 00:05, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Verifiable Facts