Talk:List of roguelikes

message: It would be nice to include everyone's favorite games here. Unfortunately, the profusion of JRPG's have turned this list into a largely unreadable mess. Many barely resemble roguelikes. Most don't have the range of traits associated with roguelike games. Can these be culled, moved to a JRPG section or removed entirely? Thanks. 71.212.22.84 (talk) 12:52, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: They should be.  This is a mostly useless garbage list in relation to the real definition, as it is.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.63.237.146 (talk) 07:23, 26 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: JRPG Overkill

message: Not to quibble but this game is listed as released in 2016 which is unusual since it is still 2015. 50.54.225.180 (talk) 18:14, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Darkest Dungeon

message: http://www.redrogue.net/ this game seems to be quite rogue like, and describes itself as such. Someone add it?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.145.72.22 (talk) 19:20, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Red Rogue

message: I've tried twice to add ZAPM to the list. It even bills itself as a science-fiction "Nethack" clone. It features randomly-generated maps, even though
they're not technically dungeons, it plays much like other rogue-likes. ScottishPig (talk) 01:46, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It was removed for not referencing a reliable source. I haven't been able to find much independent, reliable coverage of ZAPM, but you might be able to use Softpedia. There's a handy tool for generating references on the toolserver. Feezo (Talk) 07:18, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: ZAPM

message: Is there some reason that items without articles were removed from this list? Is there a WP policy regarding this? Just asking. SharkD 02:22, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: List items without articles

message: Why was Gearhead removed, and its article deleted?  -- Solberg 21:21, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It was deleted for lacking notability. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/GearHead Feezo (Talk) 21:53, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's strange.  IIRC it is pretty notable for roguelikes.  -- Solberg 00:50, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't understand why it was deleted. There were three Keeps and three Deletes. Hardly a consensus. SharkD 06:17, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The same reason 'IVAN was deleted, I suppose; lack of reliable sources to cite. It's a more notable roguelike than many of the others on the list, but that's Wikipedia for you, eh. Tchernobog 13:36, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gearhead?? 

message: Is dwarven fortress a roguelike? (google it)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.192.142.101 (talk) 08:38, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia categorizes it as a RL currently, so I've added here to the list until such time as its status as such changes. D. Brodale 10:39, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

text: And, If I say, the definition of 'rogulike' here seems very loose; if I were to make the list I'll exclude Transcendence and Diablo and many others on this list. DF is more 'roguelike' than these ones maybe? 221.171.148.25 18:03, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I would define 'roguelike' as a dungeon crawl (or military base crawl, space crawl, etc.) with random levels, spawns and loot. Graphics and turn-based/real-time don't make a difference, IMO. SharkD 10:54, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The best reason to exclude DF here is that the portion of the game that one might construe as roguelike is quite underdeveloped and far from the emphasis of development or gameplay at present. It seems several want to class it as such because of the text user interface, but that's a weak basis by which to judge whether a game is roguelike or not, as even the first "roguelike" sported a graphic interface in its early ports to home computers. D. Brodale 16:30, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Quick point: setting is irrelevant. Many roguelikes and hybrids exist in a science fiction setting, for example. 50.54.236.164 (talk) 18:10, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Nethack, and all roguelikes to one degree or another, are personal survival simulations created to depict the adventures of a sole explorer. Whether this is a lone dwarf armed with weapons and protected by chainmail, or a starship captain armed with weapons and protected by a starship, the experience is personal. On the other hand, default Dwarf Fortress is a culture simulation, like Sim City or, in its simplest fantasy form, Dungeon Keeper 2. This type of game isn't about keeping a single player character alive. They're about keeping a civilization, alive.  They may feature various hero and fppov modes and interactions, but these are variants. Thoughts? 71.212.131.198 (talk) 22:29, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dwarven fortress 

message: I think it would be useful to change this list into a table, like what can be found here and here. Unfortunately, I don't know enough about these games to fill the table with relavent info. SharkD 10:37, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The table offered in the first example (Comparison...) is a bit of overkill, or would be, if applied here. The second example presents a more reasonable expectation for info, though archetype/setting won't vary a great deal (and archetype seems misleading), and the developer field is likely of least significance for this genre, as the bulk are independent projects where authors rarely contribute more than one title before moving outside the genre altogether. D. Brodale 12:23, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Was there ever a formal discussion of this alteration elsewhere, or did you just decide to steamroller it into being? D. Brodale (talk)
What have you done to my eyes?
This is ghastly, anyone in favor of going back to the bulleted list?75.173.84.243 (talk) 06:30, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Change list to a informative table

message: The Pokemon games listed don't feature random dungeons. Should they still be listed? I think dungeon crawl would be a better description than roguelike. SharkD 10:06, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: These are all interesting points to raise, but this list is intended to match the genre laid out in the roguelike discussion. However, it is evident that the matter in that article requires further refinement to address overlap with similar elements in related genres (e.g., dungeon crawl aspects), as there's more to a roguelike than dungeon crawling in its (loosely) understood formulation and community following. It's a bit too slippery to go into a great deal of length here, but with roguelikes there is an emphasis on randomization that goes beyond generation of random dungeon layouts. Telengard may lack random dungeon mappings, but the whole of gameplay centers on random encounters and rewards to such an extent that most class it as roguelike in tone. Note also that several roguelikes favor procedural dungeon generation alongside random generation, such that one couldn't really say the "game maps" are wholly random, but rather pieced together after a fashion. I'll look into the Pokemon titles, but the ones listed should again be those that favor a more roguelike tone. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the list should not be renamed or recategorized as "dungeon crawls" as that's not the sole criterion by which roguelikes are judged, but that the supporting genre article requires further expansion and refinement (something I started over there in sifting through the raw article, but haven't had time to complete and source to date). On the other hand, there are plenty of "dungeon crawls" that aren't really roguelikes, such as Etrian Odyssey, where the sense of gameplay is more in line with "classic" CRPGs. D. Brodale 16:27, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Pokemon games

message: Titan Quest also features randomized loot. Would it qualify as being a roguelike, as well? SharkD (talk) 10:44, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Titan Quest

message: The game features randomized dungeon parts (floors) -although not all- , shouldn't it be categorized as a roguelike game? 125.163.19.163 19:48, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Chocobo's Dungeon 2

message: In 1979's Nov/Dec issue of CURSOR magazine, a game called DUNGEON by Brian Sawyerz (judging from looking at the binary) was published.  I think this definitely counts as a Roguelike, it looks just the same ( see screenshot1 and screenshot2 ).  Thoughts? :—Hobart (talk) 20:09, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It predates Rogue? Interesting: I'd like to see it in action. Is it possible to determine if this is turn-based with random map? It may just be a dungeon-themed action game. It may not be verifiable beyond that original publication, though. Marasmusine (talk) 21:01, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

text: Dungeon is described here. The article says it was a party-based RPG, and makes no mention of random levels/loot. It did use ASCII graphics though. SharkD  Talk  05:57, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: SharkD, what you are referring to is a different (mainframe, not micro) game of the same name.  Marasmusine, I've loaded the linked .PRG file up in the VICE emulator for the Commodore PET - you can run it with "xpet -model 3032 dungeon.prg", and am saving off some screenshots.  See these screenshots  —Hobart (talk) 15:00, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I ran it 3 times and got the same map layout each time - either the game isn't randomized (which I think we've decided is a key point), or this is an artefact of the emulator. Ought to check Beneath Apple Manor too. Marasmusine (talk) 17:54, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Marasmusine - I've gotten unique dungeons on each run (see screenshots), it looks like the RND() function in BASIC (you can LIST the game after you quit) is relatively weak in the emulator :)  it does look like Beneath Apple Manor predates it by a year.  I've added it to the chronology.  —Hobart (talk) 00:21, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  "DUNGEON" for PET 

message: There are some games similar to roguelikes that are procedurally generated, but are party-based and use action points like D&D. Examples include S.C.O.U.R.G.E., Fishguts and Dungeon Monkey Unlimted (the last of which was developed by the same guy as GearHead). Can anyone think of additional examples? SharkD  Talk  06:03, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Despite every word in your first sentence getting me excited, I could not think of any verifiable examples. Marasmusine (talk) 08:09, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Similar games 

message: DEC is still missing as an entry in Template:Vgclegend but the (Philips) P2000 is there so why isn't it recognized in this table? The Seventh Taylor (talk) 07:32, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: You need to add the DEC to the template. SharkD  Talk  07:38, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

text: I went ahead and added it for you. SharkD  Talk  08:02, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. I was going to ask "now what about the P2000, why is it still not recognized as a platfoprm here while it's in the template?" but somehow it does work now (although the real mystery is why i didn't before). Problems solved. The Seventh Taylor (talk) 02:15, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It didn't work because it was never added (or was removed at some point?) to the template, despite what the documentation said. SharkD  Talk  07:03, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Platforms not recognized 

message: Dungeon Adventure  http://www.ubergeekgames.com/dungeonadventure.html is clearly a roguelike and should be added to the list. It's notable because it's the only roguelike available for Xbox 360. Rolen47 (talk) 00:17, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I won't dispute that it's a roguelike. However, as we are not a directory we limit ourselves to games that can be verified through reliable, independent sources. Let me know if you find one. Marasmusine (talk) 08:26, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dungeon Adventure 

message: There's a shareware DOS roguelike I'm trying to find - I used to play it in the early 90s. It was first person, but rather than block movement, used vector graphics and smooth movement. The shareware version only had the first level, which was a simple random dungeon. The monsters were rats and bats, and items included spell scrolls like "magic map". Marasmusine (talk) 08:53, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help me track down this roguelike 

message: Why did you delete my addition of "Kharne: The Revelation". Your "excuse" in the history is "no WP:RS" (no reliable, published sources). In fact, I included a good link in my addition to a website dedicated to rogue-like games. If you didn't like that particular site, you could have simply provided a better link (there are many references for Kharne on the web) instead of deleting the entire "Kharne" entry.
At the top of this Wiki page is the statement "This list is incomplete; you can help by expanding it".   Given your behavior, I doubt that you are sincere.
This Wiki page should serve as a consolidated list of all known Rogue-like games that are complete and finishable so any interested reader can find a Rogue-like game to play.  It should NOT be Marasmusine's or any other editors personal little kingdom of games that he/she deems suitable.
ProResearcher (talk) 02:12, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The fact is that Wikipedia is worthless as a source of information on roguelikes. It rejects useful information in favor of "notable" information. If it were up to me I'd purge all roguelike information from Wikipedia and leave it to dedicated wikis. 68.44.132.25 (talk) 18:28, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kharne: The Revelation 

message: Ah, this list brings back the memories.  One that I played a fair bit in the '80s that isn't on this list is Laurence Brother's Omega.  Originally written for Unix, it seems to be currently available for Linux (http://libregamewiki.org/Omega-rpg, http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/maverick/man6/omega-rpg.6.html) and Windows (http://www.prankster.com/winomega/).
Evank (talk) 16:38, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I used to play Omega a bit on the Amiga!... I never really managed to get out of the first town, but it was an interesting town and had interesting character creation. The tricky thing here is to find verification for it. This might do, and its apparently listed in This directory, although it can't be seen in the Google Books preview. Marasmusine (talk) 18:06, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

text: Omega used to have its own page, but it was viciously deleted by a horde of editors claiming it was non-notable.  In contrast to this batch of useless games, which because they earned a buck for someone in Japan are considered notable even though their connection with roguelikes is tenuous at best.  Fucking wikipedia. 68.44.132.25 (talk) 18:27, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Omega 

message: Do we list expansions to games here as well? SharkD  Talk  09:37, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Expansions? 

message: Should this edit be undone in order to restore the list of graphical roguelikes we had earlier? Dow we want to list these types of games here? SharkD  Talk  22:53, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Graphical action roguelikes 

message: Please see Talk:Roguelike#Separating "true" Roguelikes from Roguelike-like games on a possible way to separate the two styles of games. --MASEM (t) 20:26, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussion on separating true roguelikes, from roguelike-like games 

message: Alphaman was a great roguelike that I got into after ADOM, seems to be missing from the list.
Reference: http://www.download-central.ws/DOS/Games/A/Alphaman/
:Took care of this. Alphaman also has the distinction of being the first science fiction-themed roguelike. 50.54.225.180 (talk) 18:16, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alphaman 

message: How does this term differentiate one roguelike from another? It actually sounds like a description of traditional roguelikes, not roguelike hybrids or roguelikes in other settings besides fantasy. One would never describe FTL or Sea of Stars as being procedural death labyrinths, for example. 50.54.236.164 (talk) 10:23, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: They still have a "maze" type structure (in FTL's case, for example, the various pathways between planets and the order through the systems). The spacial aspect of these games are generated randomly and in a highly non-linear fashion. --MASEM (t) 14:35, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I realize that the phrase is meant to be a sort of fundamental technical term. The screwy part is that _all_ roguelikes are procedural death labyrinths. So it's not a way to differentiate a roguelike-like from a traditional roguelike.  50.54.236.164 (talk) 00:13, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, the idea is that true roguelikes would still be able to keep "roguelike" as their genre even if they are procedural death labynirths, but that games like FTL etc would not, should the concept take wider hold in the media (we're still waiting to see on that). --MASEM (t) 00:26, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I doubt PDL will catch on as an academic description because unless you already know what the differentiation is supposed to mean, it does not differentiate, meaning that it tells the layperson nothing. You know?  50.54.236.155 (talk) 20:36, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Even "Rogue-lite" or "Roguelike-likes" are slow on the update; it's clear there's people that want to name the FTLs and Spelunkies as something other than roguelikes but to get any new term in wide adoption hasn't really happened yet.  But, just as FPS's were originally called "Doom clones", I would believe if more such PDL/Rogue-lites continue to come out, we will get a new term. --MASEM (t) 20:44, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hopefully the phrase is gone by now. Its purpose was dubious at best. 97.126.27.45 (talk) 00:04, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: "Procedural death labyrinth"

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Is Shiren the Wanderer 4: The Eye of God and the Devil's Navel not considered a roguelike/-lite? It seems the other games in the series are. SharkD  Talk  22:55, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shiren 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Advanced Dungeons & Dragons: Cloudy Mountain and Dark Chronicle/Dark Cloud 2 are no more Berlin Interpretation roguelikes than Diablo is. If anything they're even less roguelike for featuring more modular gameplay, among other things. I'm not personally familiar with Nemesis and Telengard, if they're neither randomly-generated nor turn-based then they have no business claiming to be Berlin Interpretation roguelikes either.73.34.17.206 (talk) 21:36, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: It might be helpful to create a "Proto-roguelike" category (I'm sure there must be a better name for it) for the close precursors to actual roguelikes. That's probably where a game like Telengard belongs, for example. 97.113.139.122 (talk) 05:42, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Move games from Roguelikes to Hybrids

message: Hi, I was reminded about this old game the other day when we were looking up old Apple II games. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_(video_game)
It struck me that this might be one of the earliest examples ever of a rogue lite. It's similar to spelunky in the fact that it has randomly generated levels and is heavily action oriented. It also has the basic narrative of a traditional roguelike (get to the bottom, grab the mcguffin, and get out). I don't really use wikipedia much so I thought I'd rather just put this in the talk page and let someone who is more experienced decide if it deserves to be on this list. Thanks in advance and apologies if I messed up I believe this is my first ever post on wikipedia.
Ianuniacke (talk) 07:45, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aztec Apple II