Talk:Abercrombie & Fitch/Archive 1

message: :If there are factual errors, feel free to correct them.  But please do not delete or otherwise try to set aside the factual, truthful criticisms of A&F.  I have no sort of vendetta with them and am professionally neutral with regard to their industry, but I note with alacrity that there is a pervasive pattern at A&F in that they "surface" in the national news now and then for less than honorable reasons, respond to public outcries, and then go back to business as usual. One premise is that they are doing this quite intentionally, with the goal of both so-branding the company and getting free advertising in the process.  It's an interesting if not necessarily honorable way to market their company, but:::Your edits look fine, Mike.  Glad we talked a bit...I do respect your judgment and maturity. Enjoy your time at 'SC...it goes fast. --AustinKnight 03:39, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Errors

message: The introduction states A&F operates 350 stores in the USA and 5 in Canada.  However, Google Finance says it operates 851 stores in USA and Canada.  These are VERY different numbers, so could someone verify this?Im.a.lumberjack 02:11, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Number of Stores

message: The intro to this section previously read like it had been drafted by an Abercrombie employee.  It, and the accompanying material, have been rewritten to include specific historical events and objections to A&F, including -- by A&F's own later admission -- the marketing of sexually inappropriate products to children.--66.69.219.9 03:34, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Controversy and Corruption

message: I nominate that the ages of the board be deleted.  There is no reference to when their date of birth is, so this information could quickly become out of date.  It really doesn't matter how old the VP is anyway.  Gilliamjf 20:49, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ages of the Board 

message: As an A&F employee, I know that this article is maintained by the marketing department of A&F.  This kind of entry maintainence is one of the weakest points of Wikipedia's credibility.
:How do you know that? Do you work in the marketing department? -Will Beback 01:47, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd be astounded if they hadn't contributed to it, but Employment Practices is certainly not their work. And I believe that the more navel-gazing or promotional material is pretty consistently rapidly removed. -- Jmabel | Talk 20:53, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Marketing 

message: I think it might be nice to mention somewhere in the introductory segment that Abercrombie & Fitch has been continuously in operation for the past 114 years, making it one of the oldest continually operating national brands in the US.  And just to settle a conflict of interest, I am an employee of the Company, so I will not make any changes of my own to this article.  I just think that is something noteworthy to be put into the intro.  ArrowHead 04:50, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Age 

message: Amazingly, this article has had a doppelgänger at Abercrombie since 2004 until about ten minutes ago when I changed that article to redirect here.  The two articles were almost exactly the same except for two paragraphs from the other that I tacked on to the Abercrombie & Fitch today section.  (My edit.) -Wiccan Quagga 02:52, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Geez, someone put up a doppelgänger AGAIN. Should Abercrombie be redirected again? mirageinred 21:27, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for noting it - that's a weird case of vandalism. No, it shouldn't be a redirect here, as there are other (barely) notable subjects by that name. However it may be that we should assign the name to the disambiguation page now at Abercrombie (disambiguation). There's a stale discussion of this topic on its talk page.  -Will Beback 08:13, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merged 

message: I noticed that the Image, Sum5 is copyrighted but on the page it says that the copyright holder gave up rights to it.  Is this true and can it be verified?  --PaladinWriter 12:28, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Extremely unlikely. - Jmabel | Talk 19:16, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

text: A&F Marketing basically maintains this article, so no not unlikely at all. --68.77.152.196 19:25, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, I maintain this article. I've never seen any sign of the marketing department. -Will Beback 02:11, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Alright, but as an employee of the company I just really have to say that the writing in all the articles on A&F stores seem to have the tell-tale signs of something written by marketing...and the history section especially of the A&F article seems to be paraphrased from the Company's own official history that appears in the employee handbooks, etc.--ArrowHead 15:16, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't have access to the employee handbook. If that is the source then it should be included in the references. The unfortunate fact is that for most corporations the only history available is the one that they write. -Will Beback 21:45, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyrighted Image 

message: Someone deleted that there is no store in New Mexico. There used to be a store in Albuquerque, but it was closed this year, making New Mexico and Wyoming the only states to not have a store. I changed it back.
Someone has vandalized this again, I will add it back 24.247.222.255 01:23, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Store locations 

message: I noticed that the Image, Sum5 is copyrighted but on the page it says that the copyright holder gave up rights to it.  Is this true and can it be verified?  --PaladinWriter 12:28, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Extremely unlikely. - Jmabel | Talk 19:16, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Alright, but as an employee of the company I just really have to say that the writing in all the articles on A&F stores seem to have the tell-tale signs of something written by marketing...and the history section especially of the A&F article seems to be paraphrased from the Company's own official history that appears in the employee handbooks, etc.--ArrowHead 15:16, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't have access to the employee handbook. If that is the source then it should be included in the references. The unfortunate fact is that for most corporations the only history available is the one that they write. -Will Beback 21:45, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyrighted Image 

message: the websites Abercrombie.com.au and Abercrombie-Models.com - only contain a limited amount of abercrombie & fitch material and seem more like they are simply being promoted by the creator in here.
:I removed the website. It seems like a spam website too. mirageinred 19:49, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: websites

message: it seems to me that recent changes are completely un-NPOV.  as a current associate in the Company I can state that the differences between Impact and Model at most stores are almost non-existent.  often times, models after a few months will decide to switch to impact (and vice versa) suggesting that neither position is really more desirable than the other.  secondly, no one simply "works in the back" as if they were confined to a dungeon.  at any given time several impact team members will be on the floor in an a&f store, working on updates, filling, etc.  moreover, a lot of people simply do aspects of both positions on a regular basis.  the idea the a&f banishes people to the backroom who are non-white continues to be brought up again and again, but is simply not true.  and if a store manager were doing that, he or she could basically be instantly fired after a complaint was logged anonymously with a&f's discrimination hotline.  the same stands for any form of discrimination at a&f--racial, sex, sexual orientation, religious, whatever.  there is a zero tolerance policy on discrimination of any sort.  just anecdotally, i work with two latino/a and two african american managers at my store (out of a total of roughly 10), so i would say that it is hardly an un-diverse work environment.  --ArrowHead 06:22, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The main point is indeed true, however, may I say that there is a difference between Impact and Brand Representatives. They have a completely different job description. The fact that you said it is "non-existent" is not true.--Samweber 21:25, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  lifestyle brand 

message: Reading the article, it looks like it's unreferenced, but then there are a pile of references at the bottom.  It would be nice if sections or specific claims got matched up with particular citations. -- Beland 00:19, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: It should be broken up, but I don't know where to start from mirageinred 22:13, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  agreed, and a lot of the length is pointless information, like the closed store list, or the story about mike's sandals.  I think people need to think "encyclopedia" not "sandbox" when they edit this article.  Stuph 01:21, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Abercrombie and Fitch today is too long

message: This current section is not from a NPOV, and should be made more encyclopedic in my opinion. Nenyedi 01:27, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Lifestyle Brand

message: An editor removed the links to A&F websites with the edit summary:
*rm 1 broken link, 1 link to promotional business site, 2 to purely commenrcial sites.
When I tried them they all seemed to work and to go to official websites. I beleive those are allowed by WP:EL. It's natural that company websites would be promotional and commercial. -Will Beback · † · 00:30, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The links were deleted in keeping with EL: Links normally to be avoided, specifically #1 and #3. The links add no information beyond that available in the article, AND they are all commercial sales sites. 2 strikes, they're out...Doc  Tropics Message in a bottle 01:39, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is an article about a company. The linked sites belong to the company. They are totally appropriate.Mwdelta 02:12, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That makes your personal feelings clear, but they remain a violation of WP:EL as specifically cited above. The sites in question have no encyclopedic value and add nothing to the article. --Doc  Tropics Message in a bottle 02:19, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

text: OK, good compromise by Mike Dillon. I can accept the link to the "official" site if the other links remain relegated to their appropriate articles. --Doc  Tropics Message in a bottle 06:09, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That works for me too. Thanks Mike. -Will Beback · † · 06:40, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Links 

message: Readded aberzombie to trivia with a citation from the urban dictionary where it hjad several entries allready, plus the google test garnered 11,500 hits. Aryan & Fag, Abersnobby & Bitch, Aberzombie and Bitch, and Asshole & Bitch were not really all thereQrc2006 00:20, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Aberzombie

message: Tom Welling and Ashton Kutcher i know about, but i was watching Conan Obrian and this blonde chick on some dump diseny channel show said she used to work there and also at hollister and wet seal, since she was forced to work even tho she was wealthy to learn the value of the dollar she chose af etc for the discount and its what she was into at the time, shes like the niece of Ron Popeil from the infomercials she said, whats her name? if you know add her in.Qrc2006 02:11, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Trivia

message: Over at the Mulesing article there is a bit of mention that Abercrombie & Fitch, in response to pressure from PETA, stopped stocking Australian / Merino wool products.
Can anyone advise, 
#Did they actually carry Australian / Merino wool products before the "boycott"?
#Did they indeed cease selling Australian / Merino wool products?
#The boycott was requested in 2004 - are they selling any Australian / Merino wool now?
Specifically, products effected would have the woolmark.
Ideally, we'd need promotional material which could be cited. An e-catalogue or something would be fantastic!
To be honest - I don't even know what A&F sell. I guess the main types of items for wool would be suits / blazers and woolen jumpers. Other woolen products probably wouldn't mention country of origin or wool type in the label - it'd just be "wool socks".
Any help appreciated!Garrie 21:20, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merino / Australian Wool boycott 

message: Didn't see any mention that they have recently been opening outlet stores for all of the brands except ruehl. should it be mentioned?Kmccusker2 23:07, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Outlets? 

message: The article says that Concept 5 is Jillian Hicks then it says it is Gilly Hicks which one is it?--Holtville 04:56, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Gilly hicks, this claim has now been backed up in the article. --Nenyedi TalkDeeds@  01:16, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm talking about the name of the concept not when it is going to be opened.--Holtville 02:56, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Concept 5 

message: Is this needed? i took it out as it is always changing with seasons, and isn't encyclopedic. I think, especially since we are trying to move away from reading like an advertisement, this should stay deleted. Kmccusker2 21:04, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  fashion season 

message: Popular culture section is a good way to manage trivias. (as suggested by WP:TRIV and Wikipedia:"In popular culture" articles) However, the section is already big, and this section will only expand. The section cannot be an indiscriminate section that lists every single refernces made in pop culture. Should there be any criteria for listing references under this section, or should this section be deleted in its entirety? mirageinred 22:00, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think expanding the trivia section is really an option here. The trivia section should be deleted when possible. There are notable references to the brand which should stay within the popular culture section like MadTV, Family Guy, The Simpsons etc. But then deciding the amount of notability would be very difficult. And yeah, that book page should be gone. mirageinred 19:16, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I nominated the book page for speedy deletion for being too short. (db-nocontext) mirageinred 19:17, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

text: whoops, meant trivia moved to the pop culture and trimmed, slightly mixed up my words. I guess the only way to really look at it is keep it to like two or three of the most notable references, possibly, as notability would be difficult, but if it had to be, could be discussed. I think the song section should be removed, as i feel like it is not important enough. brands get mentioned in songs constantly, and if you were to do that with every brand, car companies, liquor brands, clothing, etc., some brands would have huge lists. Parodies of the brand in popular culture situations are easy to keep in a section, as they are normally limited, and only done because of the public views on the brand. it just seems like if we keep songs, you could probably have a never ending list. i mean, just searching abercrombie lyrics on google, within the first 3 pages i found a song A&F by kittie, the mention by rapper the game, Fan_3 (some Disney rapper), mac dre, and not to mention what is already in the article. so i guess im just saying we need to look at all of the possible ways to shorten that section.Kmccusker2 09:19, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Abercrombie and Fitch in popular culture 

message: Please contribute to the discussion here. Thank you. mirageinred 20:05, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[A&F Fragrances]] nominated for deletion 

message: Abercrombie is not a redirect to Abercrombie & Fitch, but it has its own page that is nearly identical to Abercrombie & Fitch. Redirect? mirageinred 22:24, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it's supposed to be a disambiguation page. Somehow it keeps getting reverted back to a copy of this article. -Will Beback · † · 00:47, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: yeah, thats what i meant, still shaky on all of the terms on wiki. ehhh, i'll get there eventually. hopefully it stays now, however.Kmccusker2 11:31, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Doppleganger 

message: Nothing has been mentioned about the use of nudity in catalogs.  It was a a big upset, even bigger than most conflicts on the existing page.  I always wondered how nudity sold clothing...  Someone please mention this somewhere in the article.
:It's already there. See the section labelled "A&F Quarterly".  ·:·Will Beback  ·:· 05:52, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Catalog Controversy 

message: "Hollister Co. is a California-inspired apparel brand that attracts patrons ages 12-18 ... most children who used to buy from their sister store, abercrombie, had outgrown it and began searching for a similarly popular brand with similar clothing"
This seems to contradict itself. If people have outgrown Abercrombie, they must be in their 20s or older. Who is Hollister targeted towards - children, or adults? Rm999 17:28, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Hollister

message: take a look at the http://wikiscanner.virgil.gr              plenty of edits to this article by A&F themselves.  Kmccusker2 02:20, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And those are only the unregistered edits.  ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 06:11, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  interesting.... 

message: Does anyone believe that there should be an article which mainly focuses on the entire company named Abercrombie & Fitch Co.. It would included the history of the company and the brands that it now encompasses. Abercrombie & Fitch would then only focus on just the brand; who it markets and its clothing, ect.?
User talk: Hpfan1  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hpfan1 (talk • contribs) 23:21, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure I understand how we'd split the material. Could you explain your idea in more detail?  ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 00:27, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Abercrombie & Fitch Co.

message: While the brand is obviously targeted to the younger cosumer, I don't think 18 - 22 is the right age.  Why would a brand concentrate on a four year span? The Ruehl brand is still not available to every consumer, and it's unavailbilty on the internet makes it more elusive for the "post-collegiate" consumer.  Also the article tries to put the different brands as following a consumers age, but the Hollister brand doesn't seem to be the next brand in line after abercrombie kids line, but rather a seperate brand which is targeted to a lower income consumer, and to compete with american eagle and other less expensive brands while putting Abercrombie the adult brand as a more exclusive independant brand not readily available to all consumers and not be associated, or in competition with the cheaper brands like american eagle and aeropostale.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.203.250.23 (talk) 04:57, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The internal documents from A&F list the target ages of the brands. We're just reporting what they say.  ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 21:12, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: customer ages

message: *...the company has held preliminary talks about opening a store in Dublin. http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2005/02/27/story2562.asp''
That story is two and a half years old. While the company may have engaged in some preliminary talks, it appears that nothing was done. Why mention it?  ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 22:35, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dublin 

message: Is Abercrombie pronounced AB-er-CROM-bee or AB-er-CRUM-bee? Timeineurope 12:49, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've heard it as CROM on TV adverts. Otherwise don't know. kwami 18:11, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation of Abercrombie 

message: this needs a major editing. recent edits have thrown in info about fragrances which are unnecessary, mahjong and lindbergh references which need citations. i will go through at some point this week, but there is so much unnecessary information in this article, and much, if not all of the recent additions dating back to at least the 20th, need to be revised.Kmccusker2 07:15, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree.  ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 05:09, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ADVERT? 

message: Template: has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. — Rhobite (talk) 17:26, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  TfD nomination of [[:Template:{{ucfirst:Abercrombie & Fitch brand}}]]