Talk:Premier Election Solutions

message: this sentence sounds like marketing-blabla because i couldn't find any information that more than the name has changed:
In this incarnation, the organization is much more autonomous from the main Diebold company, both financially and regarding decision making.
and the real reasons are obviously named here http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2006/11/13/8393084/index.htm ;)
--Taintain 19:26, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Diebold -> Permier

message: http://www.bradblog.com/?p=4066
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.62.247.10 (talk) 20:52, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Security Issues 

message: I've started a thread at Talk:Diebold#Diebold Election Systems about merging this article with the Diebold article. JamesMLane 07:30, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Article merger

message: This article needs serious cleanup.  Anyone want to help? -- Joebeone (Talk) 00:15, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  cleanup 

message: Here is the link to the National Election Data Archive, headed by Kathy Dopp.  
Originally a group of statisticians compared the national 2006 election exit polls to the voting results and determined that mathematically the differences were too great to explain in any legitimate way.  However it was not possible to get all the data needed to prove this definitively.
They formed NEDA with the purpose of creating a national database of election results to bring transparency to the election process.  With all the numbers available, any statistician could do the math.  
As part of this mission, NEDA follows the Diebold situation and lobbies for voter-verified ballots.  A record of their activities, with many articles about the Diebold machines, can be found on this website:
  USA Count Votes   --Aenb 13:21, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link to National Election Data Archive 

message: The Princeton  analysis of the Deibold's weakness has been referenced as further reading but not mentioned. └ VodkaJazz / talk ┐ 12:44, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This really should be added... and that section should be cleaned up to be less add-on to more narrative. -- Joebeone (Talk) 23:14, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  If this referance is added, counter point articles to this old article also have to be added so as not to violate NPOV 75.169.254.116 (talk) 14:41, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Princeton 

message: Hi, the references section of this article needs help.  Each ref should use one of the WP:CITET templates. -- Joebeone (Talk) 23:15, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  References section needs help 

message: As user:Rosicrucian noted, Diebold Election Systems has announced that it's changing its name to "Premier Election Solutions". Their website has already changed over. The company's  is governance structure is also being changed significantly. We'll need to move the article and we should add some text on the changes. I'll take care of the move. Though I can think of some good reasons to leave the article name unchanged, those are all overriden by the undeniable fact of the new name. Any other views?  ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 08:42, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: here is a link from PC World about the name change [] Diebold Can't Sell E-Voting Subsidiary 75.169.253.116 (talk) 14:22, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name change 

message: Recently read this report on BBC: 
Perhaps this might be included in the main body of the article?  User talk:Anonymous(first time posting, hope I did correctly.) 04:06 19 August  —The preceding  signed but undated. 
:That article talks about "Diebold", not "Diebold Election Systems".  ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 02:58, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Diebold tampering with this page 

message: is a blog... should be removed71.225.205.124 (talk) 06:33, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right that blogs normally aren't used as sources. However that blog was linked because it had a copy of some text from an NYT article. So instead of deleting it I fixed the link so it goes straight to the original article.  ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 06:45, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: reference 16

message: [moved to bottom because of 15 May 2008 edit]
I've alerted Kathy Dopp to the presence of this page.  She runs the newly formed National Election Data Archive.  Their purpose is to create a database for all election results so discrepancies are easily examined.  She knows every last detail of the Diebold story.
::Any contribution to this article by Kathy Dopp, or any other activist, would violate the Wikipedia is not a soapbox, WP:NOTSOAPBOX. Further more, NPOV requires views to be represented without bias. This article all ready has issues with Neutrality WP:NPOV, Undue weight WP:Undue weight, Fairness of tone, Attributing and substantiating biased statements, and a news blog tone WP:NOT#NEWS. 75.169.254.116 (talk) 14:37, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: From the link given just above, under "Diebold tampering with this page": "In October 2005, a person using a Diebold computer removed paragraphs about Walden O'Dell, chief executive of the company, which revealed that he had been "a top fund-raiser" for George Bush."  I think it's a given that some of the people editing this article will have what Wikipedia considers to be a conflict of interest, and yes that's a problem, and the solution is to make sure that information in this article comes from the best of the available Reliable sources.  I agree that there's a problem with tone, but the problem is that, for a variety of electronic voting machines used in the US, no one writing in a reliable source has ever made a case (that wasn't instantly rebutted) that they were tamper-proof.  The only case that has been made (successfully) is that they didn't think it was likely that anyone would try.  Any new information involving certification of tamper-proof features would be extremely welcome in this article, and would help to even out the tone. - Dan Dank55 (talk)(mistakes) 14:49, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Any editing by people with conflicts of interest is not good and will most likely result in the NPOV becoming Biased. Since this is Voting related I think the [] should be used as a reliable source. The EAC certifies the Voting machines and is the location where the most current information about what machines, software, and manufactures are certified for voting. Some States have their own state certification process and might be another place to find reliable sources. I would assume the EAC would have more neutrality then typical writers about voting machines. Where the State Certification reports could be biased by the testing labs and or certification report writers. 75.169.254.116 (talk) 15:36, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No, a political body is specifically not neutral about political matters; and on top of that, it's already clear in the article that the software was certified for use in the last election; and on top of that, that's not the question.  The software was certified by various government officials as being "good enough" or "better than some alternatives", but no one has even tried to make the case that it is tamper-proof, and this more than any other issue is what contributes to the tone that you don't like in this article.  Find a reliable source that supports your position, if that's what you want the article to say. - Dan Dank55 (talk)(mistakes) 16:08, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I would normally agree with your point that "a political body is...(not) neutral about political matters, but in context of use the EAC could be used as a reliable sources. If we include information about what equipment is currently certified (EAC is the only source) as a counter point to some of the Voting related issue that are about outdated software, a more neutral article could be achived. For example, under software The Diebold GEMS central tabulator software, version 1.18.15 is called into question, the most current software according to the EAC [] is 1.20.2 (Florida is rummored to have upgraded to that version, hard to find a reliable source to identify which states have updated) the EAC is also a reliable source to identify which products Premier Election Solutions is offering or has offered. Context can often determine whether a source can be used neutral reliable source. 75.169.253.116 (talk) 14:15, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

text: My only response is to point out that, fwiw, 75.169.254.116 has made no contributions to wikipedia apart from the 3 posts above and 1 on the actual article--Mongreilf (talk) 09:49, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kathy Dopp could help 

message: They have now admitted that an error in their software causes votes to be dropped.. Superm401 - Talk 04:30, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Admission of errors 

message: 1. Removed: The following allegations have been unsourced for nearly 2 years:
:"The software architecture common to both is a creation of Mr. Urosevich's company I-Mark. Some experts claim that this structure is easily compromised, in part due to its reliance on Microsoft Access databases. Britain J. Williams, responsible for certification of voting machines for the state of Georgia and a consultant to Diebold, has provided an assessment based on his accounting of potential exploits."
2. Removed: The following allegations have been unsourced for 6 months:
:"The Diebold GEMS central tabulator software, version 1.18.15 is at the center of controversy for apparent irregularities versus the 2004 United States presidential election exit polls. The Diebold AccuVote voting machine has also come under scrutiny especially by Ralph Nader's campaign."
3. Removed: Clearly POV content, with a duplicative wikilink and unnecessary external link. Seems very much link an advertisement for a book:
:"DESI claims its systems provide strong immunity to ballot tampering and other vote rigging attempts. These claims have been challenged, notably by Bev Harris on her website, Blackboxvoting.org, and book by the same name. Harris claims there is also evidence that the Diebold systems have been exploited to tamper with American elections — a claim Harris expands in her book Black Box Voting.'"
4. Edited: Language appears unencylopedic and potentially POV. (i.e. "votes disappear...")
:'Orginal - "In June 2005, the Tallahassee Democrat reported that when given access to Diebold vote-counting computers, Bev Harris—a critic of Diebold's voting machines—was able to make 65,000 votes disappear simply by changing the memory card that stores voting results for one that had been altered."
:'Edit' - "In June 2005, the Tallahassee Democrat reported that when given access to Diebold vote-counting computers, Bev Harris—a critic of Diebold's voting machines—was able to make alter vote totals by replacing the memory card that stores voting results with one that had been tampered with."
5. Removed: Entirely unsourced and clearly POV content:
:"In early 2006 the Diebold Election Systems subsidiary came under considerable fire from alternate media sources for creating voting systems without reasonable auditing, no paper trail, security holes, and software bugs. The attention negatively affected Diebold stock (though elections are only a small part of their business) and triggered investigations in several states after insiders revealed irregular practices in Diebold's election division. Diebold was the first major vendor to experience a serious backlash from poor quality, service and preparation in the election industry, and condemnation of Diebold helped to focus attention on other vendors (ES&S)."
6. Edited: Content duplicative of previous paragraph. Prof Rubin already introduced along with school.
:'Orginal - "According to Avi Rubin, the Johns Hopkins University computer science professor who first identified flaws in the technology in 2003"
:'Edit' -"According to Professor Rubin"
71.178.193.134 (talk) 21:16, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Content Errors \ Cleanup 

message: This whole section is of dubious value to this article.  The wired magazine that is the primary source for this section says that the employees named here left the company when PES acquired GES.  If so, what is the relevance to an article about Premier? Bonewah (talk) 15:13, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ethical questions about Diebold personnel 

message: Have the Wikipedia articles on Diebold/Premier Elections Solutions been whitewashed again?  For example, there is no longer any mention that that some of the people responsible for Global Election Systems's software (i.e. Jeff Dean) had previously been convicted for embezzlement and electronic fraud. --96.255.132.51 (talk)
:Were there reliable sources for this? Without knowing the details, I believe it isn't unheard of for companies to hire security consultants with a history of crime - no one knows how to hack better than a hacker.   Will Beback  talk   03:52, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The IP is probably talking about the edits I made and explained above.  Here is the wired article I mentioned above, , what do you think? Was I right to remove it, or should it be in here? Bonewah (talk) 12:42, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: If I understand, GES became DES which became PES. So it's a direct corporate lineage. We do report on the CEO, but not lower level personnel. The Wired/AP article doesn't mention any actual harm caused.  If this matter became more notable than a single article then it might be worth mentioning, but even then we probably wouldn't name the employees. I think leaving it out is appropriate unless there's more to it.   Will Beback  talk   17:00, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Nothing deeper to my knowledge. Perhaps the reader would be well served if we put the salon article in the external link section. Im going to boldly do it, revert, discuss here if need be. Bonewah (talk) 17:58, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Whitewashed again? 

message: It might be good to update this article to reflect the recent sale of Premier assets from ES&S to Dominion voting. --Joebeone (Talk) 12:07, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Update for Dominion sale 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Premier Election Solutions. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Attempted to fix sourcing for http://www.raba.com/press/TA_Report_AccuVote.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20061228062312/http://hellerlegaldefensefund.com:80/oakland.html to http://www.hellerlegaldefensefund.com/oakland.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Premier Election Solutions. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Premier Election Solutions. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20080804153308/http://www.fcw.com:80/online/news/153178-1.html to http://www.fcw.com/online/news/153178-1.html
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20090627194219/http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting_systems/premier/premier-11819-withdrawal-approval033009.pdf to http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting_systems/premier/premier-11819-withdrawal-approval033009.pdf
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20041009181240/http://www.dbm.maryland.gov/dbm_publishing/public_content/dbm_search/technology/toc_voting_system_report/votingsystemreportfinal.pdf to http://www.dbm.maryland.gov/dbm_publishing/public_content/dbm_search/technology/toc_voting_system_report/votingsystemreportfinal.pdf
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Premier Election Solutions. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added  tag to http://www.omaha.com/article/20090903/MONEY/909039985
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100704213440/http://dominionvoting.com:80/images/pdfs/DominionAcquiresPremierReleaseFinal4.pdf to http://www.dominionvoting.com/images/pdfs/DominionAcquiresPremierReleaseFinal4.pdf
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.dbm.maryland.gov/dbm_publishing/public_content/dbm_search/technology/toc_voting_system_report/votingsystemreportfinal.pdf
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting_systems/security_analysis_of_the_diebold_accubasic_interpreter.pdf
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.cantonrep.com/index.php?ID=285016&Category=13
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100801053919/http://www.dominionvoting.com:80/management.html to http://www.dominionvoting.com/management.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110106075130/http://itpolicy.princeton.edu/voting/ to http://itpolicy.princeton.edu/voting/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110811113642/http://www.avirubin.com/vote/ to http://avirubin.com/vote
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110317162356/http://mlis.state.md.us/2010rs/misc/2010VotingSystemsStudyReport.pdf to http://mlis.state.md.us/2010rs/misc/2010votingsystemsstudyreport.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20041009190745/http://www.eff.org/legal/ISP_liability/OPG_v_Diebold/ to http://www.eff.org/Legal/ISP_liability/OPG_v_Diebold/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080426032536/http://www.wired.com:80/politics/security/news/2003/12/61640 to http://www.wired.com/politics/security/news/2003/12/61640
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I'm making a bunch of the content from here appear in the Dominion_Voting_Systems, which is lacking any of the history at the moment; without the change, you read the Dominion article and you have no idea the company has an uber-sordid history, which is absurd... [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dominion_Voting_Systems&diff=1004350951&oldid=1004213009 this is my first stab at it; using code like this: .  After discussing the problem on the talk page. --50.201.195.170 (talk) 05:19, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: The history was reburied.:(--50.201.195.170 (talk) 07:38, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Unburying history

message: Se quiserem traduzir é só dar um toque. att 2804:14C:5BB1:8FDA:4465:DE7A:A35B:FB33 (talk) 22:59, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  {{Ping|Raimundo57br|Luizpuodzius}}