Talk:Elvish languages of Middle-earth

message: a) Quenya. There's should be a difference between Pre-record Quenya (as sucessfully examined by HF) that leadst to Quenya Vanyarin (Quendya) and Quenya Noldorin (Classic Quenya). The latter will lead also to the Exilic Quenya (and possibile if we want to insert it, Quenya 3rd Age).
b) Common Eldarin. With the division of the CE branch, we have the Pre-record Quenya and the Common Lindarin. The latter will differentiate in Common Nandorin and Common Telerin.
c) Common Telerin > Old Sindarin > 
:a)North Sindarin Branch > Mithrim
:b)South Sindarin Branch > 
::a)Doriathrim (Doriathrin is another language devised before the 40s)
::b)Falathrim (which is the Western Branch of the Sindarin family, this branch is the one we usaully call "Sindarin". | Falathrin is another language present in the Etym.)
--Elistir 10:08, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  About the Tree. 

message: The external links of many and varied flavours need to be reviewed with WP:EL, particularly in the light of "WP is not a link farm" and the nature of the article, while biased towards Tolkien, is about elven languages, of which Tolkiens are just the most famous there of.  Any comments or should I just dive right in?  Shot info 03:59, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[WP:EL]]

message: This entire section is irrelevant to a broadbrush discussion on elvish (elven) languages across fantasy literature.  I probably should be removed to an article on Tolkien's invented languages, specifically Quenya or Sindarin.  Shot info 04:01, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Pronunciation

message: (In the chart) In letter "a", which is pronounced /α/, someone wrote "like fathom". That word, however, is pronounced /'fæðǝm/ (standard). Well, I'll delete said comparison.--Quinceps 04:48, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation 

message: I remember reading somewhere that he based it on Finnish. But the article does not even mention that. Even if I'm wrong, wouldn't a section on the development of the Elvish languages by Tolkein be appropriate? 125.238.132.123 (talk) 04:19, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There is a clear mention in the article that Quenya was strongly influenced by Finnish and Sindarin by Welsh. --Jhattara (Talk · Contrib) 07:47, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin? 

message: The kinship of Spanish and Italian is compared to the similarity of Telerin (of Alqualonde) with Quenya, and also to the radical difference of Sindarin!  I reckon Sindarin is more aptly compared to French (or perhaps Romanian), so I'm changing accordingly.  Any comparison is arguably OR, since I don't think Tolkien ever said anything of the sort. —Tamfang (talk) 23:15, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Indonesian native speakers doesn't have any difficulties pronouncing the languages (Q and S) as they match Indonesian pronounciation perfectly. I believe Latin is also pronounced the same way as Quenya and Sindarin. Bennylin (talk) 01:37, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Latin lacked Q v and S dh lh rh th y, and the S distinction between ae and ai; gw is possible in Latin but did not occur initially.  One thing Q and S have in common with Latin is the stress pattern. —Tamfang (talk) 07:48, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

text: According to Malay language#Phonology, diphthongs like ae and oe (appearing in Þindarin, e.g. Maedhros, Nen Hithoel) do not exist in either Malay or Indonesian. S dh might be a problem for some speakers, as it only appears in Arabic loanwords, and S lh rh (= Q hl hr) would cause problems either way. (The Ñoldorin pronunciation of Q hy ty as [ç c] would also cause problems, but not the Vanyarin pronunciation as [ʃ tʃ].) Double sharp (talk) 14:37, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spanish and Italian 

message: : Tolkien originally called "Qenya", his first Elvish language, Elfin.
Is this saying that the first Elvish language was "Elfin" and it was later renamed "Qenya", or something else?  I don't offhand remember his using the word elfin (but I'm no authority).
: The phonology, and grammar of Quenya and Sindarin are strongly influenced by Finnish, Latin, Greek and Welsh, respectively.
(The first comma comes from deletion of vocabulary.)  When two things are matched to four, 'respectively' is problematic!  I'd restore the sentence to its former state: The phonology, vocabulary and grammar of Quenya and Sindarin are strongly influenced by Finnish and Welsh, respectively.  The influence of Finnish and Welsh is noteworthy and well documented; that of Latin and Greek is less so.
: In addition to these two, Tolkien created many other (partially related) Elvish languages.
The word 'related' replaces 'derived'; I'm not happy with either.  All Elvish languages are (in theory) derived from a common source, and thus related; there's no 'partially'.
: Tolkien also created many scripts for his languages, including Tengwar and Cirth.
Tengwar, Cirth and Sarati.  Do three make 'many', or have I forgotten some? —Tamfang (talk) 03:26, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, the original name of the language (when Tolkien was in his teens) was 'Elfin'. No, there isn't as much establishment of Latin and Greek influence, but there is some (such as the simple fact that he knew both when he began working on Elfin, but only learned Finnish and Welsh later) - best course would probably be to add reference tags. There were many different modes of Tengwar (and a few of Cirth), but in general I'd agree the phrasing is clunky. --12.42.51.28 (talk) 12:14, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  recent changes by 90.54.1.73 

message: There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Languages of Arda which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RM bot 01:00, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Move discussion in progress

message: Middle-earth is neither a language nor a philologist, so I changed the section title to Philology in Middle-earth.  This was reverted.
I removed the superfluous and (which makes Fëanor the only possible subject of were spread); changed the dots to semicolons to change one ungrammatical sentence (members were Rúmil?) and two sentence-fragments to a grammatical whole; and changed who is credited with many works (two = many?) to the more concise author of.  These changes were reverted.
I removed the ungrammatical and redundant insertion he lived in Beleriand (anyone of Doriath must have lived in Beleriand).  This was reverted.
Someone has, shall we say, a very personal notion of English grammar, style and nuance. —Tamfang (talk) 21:41, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Middle-earth's Philology 

message: The table shows Quenya existing beside and contemporary with Common Eldarin.  Shouldn't it be a descendant? —Tamfang (talk) 03:52, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  the family tree