Talk:Joe Van Holsbeeck

message: To admins planning to speedy delete this article as nn: please don't. It has been extended from the original Joe Van Holsbeeck and ample references have been provided. This story may seem unimportant to you, but I can assure you that it is talk of the day in Belgium. Give it some time to be extended by other users. At worst give it a fair AfD. Thanks. 1652186 17:39, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  To admins planning to.. 

message: The term 'North African Immigrants' is speculative. Most probably they did not migrate themselves, rather their parents or grandparents. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.28.108.174 (talk • contribs) 
*You're right, that was bad phrasing. I fixed it. 1652186 16:12, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Speculative statement 

message: Hi, 1652186. Thanks for your contributions to this article. I am concerned about the neutrality of some passages without any references provided. Especially in the "reactions" section. For instance, this one is dodgy: "Amazingly, the religious service was limited in order not to offend the attending Muslim representatives." Also, please cite English references whenever possible (so that we can crosscheck what's written). Thank you! --Edcolins 20:08, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality 

message: 1652186, I changed the last sentence of the article to stick to the VRT article. IMHO the article does not say that "an Antwerp imam is of the opinion that some Brussels Muslims know who the murderers are." What the imam said is "The people who know who the killers are, should not remain silent and reveal their identity". Do you agree? --Edcolins 18:28, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I do. I also agree with the omission of 'only', but I don't understand why you see that as POV. 1652186 18:39, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I just wanted to stick to the facts without adding an emotional context. --Edcolins 18:58, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Imam's quote 

message: Could you explain briefly what is still NPOV disputed thank you? I'd like to help. Cheers. --Edcolins 18:28, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I did add the tag first, but now the content seems better (to me at least). I've now changed the tag from POV to POV-check to enable Diderot to comment. Let's wait and see. --Edcolins 19:03, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: At present it's okay.  I think there's truly superfluous information that suggests an earlier slant, but it's fairly well neuitralised.  If no one else objects, go ahead and remove it. --Diderot 11:33, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality 

message: Why is this here and not at Joe Van Holsbeeck, which would be the obvious choice? (Matthew Shepard, for example) Tuf-Kat 03:04, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good suggestion. Moved. Thanks. --Edcolins 08:00, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why the title 

message: There's been repeated talk of people using iPod's being a target for robbery. The article only talks about a generic "mp3 player"?
Yes it was an iPod in this case, but to be honnest, an iPod is also a mp3 player, right? Wildchild1992 (talk) 20:04, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Generic MP3 player 

message: The perpetrators' picture must be deleted or altered from French and Dutch Wikipedia under Belgian law. See Protection des mineurs. This is so weird since the pictures have been on the web for a long time... anyway --Edcolins 10:43, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Only officialy accused criminals must be made unrecognizable under Belgian law. As they were not formally accused until now, images were allowed. Sijo Ripa 11:13, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I guess this proves to those who don't believe that I'm not exagerating about the slackness of the Belgian justice system for minors... 1652186 18:00, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And France, Canada, the UK, the US (IIRC), and probably most of Europe. --Diderot 18:12, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I agree about France and Canada, but you can't exactly call a country that recently had capital punishment available for minors slack... But this is totally off topic, so let's not fight over it. 1652186 18:16, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  French and Dutch Wikipedia 

message: I would suggest amending the reference: "Het journaal (19h), VRT, April 19, 2006" and similar ones (or replacing them by lasting verifiable sources). It is actually difficult to confirm and verify what the TV program actually said. --Edcolins 07:22, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah I know, but for these specific facts they are the only references I have. So if you remove them, some people are going to contest that the text is true. I mean, some references in other articles are to books or things not available for free on the internet, I don't really see the difference. 1652186 16:52, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You can retrieve books at a library. Maybe you could add an explanation about how to obtain a copy of the TV program, if possible? Are these programs transcripted somewhere? And is it possible to get a copy (does not need to be on the internet and does not need to be free of charge)? --Edcolins 20:40, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Absolutely: . 1652186 16:41, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Excellent. Thanks. --Edcolins 07:08, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I checked the site of the VRT News, and I found the exact fragment you were referring to, and as I suspected "On April 15, the VRT news quoted an uninvolved North African teenager describing the murder as normal and not regrettable." is either taken horribly out of context or horribly misinterpreted. The teenager said that these things happen each day, that each day people die, and that it's terrible. You make it seem as if he literally said the murder was "normal and not regrettable", while he didn't say anything of the sort. I'll even give you a full transcript of his exact words tomorrow. I think that means that bit can be removed. --Ganchelkas 20:00, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup references 

message: Yesterday  81.240.88.50 added an irrelevant external link to a column by Khaled Diab, which was immediately reverted. Today , 213.193.186.184 reinstated this link within the article itself. If you check the history of this user, you will notice that it consists solely of adding references to columns by this Khaled Diab. I have two questions:
*Does anybody else have a problem with the relevance of this edit?
*Isn't this in violation with the sockpuppet/vanity rules?
1652186 17:49, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edits by 81.240.88.50 / 213.193.186.184 

message: Anyonymous user 84.153.60.142 has (twice) removed the mention of the murderers' gypsy decent, claiming that the boy's gypsy ethnicity is mentioned where relevant. It is not relevant in the first paragraph except to emphasize it for possibly racist reasons! For starters, I do not possibly see how mentioning a referenced fact can be racism, unless of course in the mind of people who don't know (or refuse to accept) what racism actually is. Secondly, he does not mind that the nationality of the culprits is mentioned there. And by the way, of course, the mention is not in the first paragraph, but in the event paragraph. Does anybody object reinclusion? 1652186 11:33, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No negative reactions, so I will reinstate the article as it was. 1652186 14:58, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Roma decent in 'event' paragraph 

message: The word "Zinloos geweld" (Meaningsless Violence) is lately often used in Belgium. Media sources even frequently speak about "een golf van zinloos geweld" (a wave of meaningless violence). I think the sentence is becoming a term which defines all the latest happenings in Belgium (the murder on the 16 year old Nigerian kid, the murder of Joe, Hans' murders, the skinhead assault which put one person into a coma, the chased Morrocan who drowned, the deadly beating of Guido on the bus, etc.). Therefore I think it's appropriate to make a page about it, which could summarize these latest happenings and the combined consequences on politics, public opinion, etc. Also, it would put the separate cases into a context. I suggest: Meaningless Violence (Belgium). Sijo Ripa 01:51, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Make a page about "Zinloos geweld"?

message: In the article someone felt the need to explicitly exclaim, after the fact that the assailents were Polish nationals, that they were NOT (this was actually italicized) ethnic Polish.
I think this is very racist and unbecoming of a encyclopedia, so I deleted it.
The fact of the matter is, is that the boys hailed from Poland...
Whether they are Gypsy or Roma or "ethnic Polish" is absolutely not relevant to the article and I feel was put in there by someone disappointed that the perpetrators were Europeans, so felt that they still needed to add SOME "foreign" element to them.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ssoass (talk • contribs) 05:53, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. Which is why I edited the lede to reflect this.--Paul Pieniezny (talk) 02:36, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not "ethnic" Polish?? 

message: Trying to repair a dead link, I noticed there is now talk of giving Joe a street name. His name has come up a few times in connection with security issues in public transport recently. I also think it is funny how this article devotes a lot of space to reactions to the murder but does not mention the fact that two well=known politicians called for white Belgians to arm themselves against the Islamic onslaught and refused to retract those words when it turned out the perpetrators were Europeans. That happens to be the main things that Belgians remember about this event: the insecurity problem in stations and on buses and trams, and the "exaggerated" reaction of certain politicians. The article should be updated. --Paul Pieniezny (talk) 01:45, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Updating