Talk:Berlin-to-Kitchener name change

message: Amazing how few Kitchenerites know the full history of their own city. The original name was The Eby Settlement.  Which later became Eby Towne. Because the many German speaking settlers in the town and general area the name was again changed, this time to Berlin,  on the recommendation of Bishop Benjamin Eby. The Eby's, like most original immigrants to the area, were  Pennsylvannia Dutch, however, the Dutch part of the name was really a mispronounciation of Pennsylvania Duetch.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.64.235.113 (talk) 04:19, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: The vote was a straw poll of several names.  Kitchener got the most votes of all the choices. Flyingsquirrel (talk) 21:32, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you mean that it was "first paste the post", straw polls are defined as votes that have no binding changes. They are used to get a feel to see what will get chosen in the future. Think political surveys on TV versus an actual election. 24.246.40.139 (talk) 18:13, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments

message: There are discrepancies across sources regarding the June 1916 vote totals. If you add up the valid votes most historians provide, it generally comes to 729. Add that to the invalid vote tally of 163 and you end up with 892 total votes. The thing is, most historians write there were 1,055 total votes.
I presume this is what happened: an early historian (maybe Barbara Wilson, 1977) made an arithmetic error by accidentally adding the invalid votes (163) twice (729 + 163 = 892 while 729 + 163 + 163 = 1,055). Later historians cite Wilson but don't correct the error, allowing it to persist through time.
Here are the numbers provided by different sources. If they do not include a figure I just write "?" in its place.
Choice             	Wilson (1977)	Moyer (1979)	English & McLaughlin (1983)	McKegney (1991)	Hayes (1997)
Kitchener          	346          	346         	346                        	346            	346
Brock              	335          	335         	335                        	335            	?
Adanac             	23           	23          	23                         	23             	?
Benton             	15           	15          	15                         	15             	?
Corona             	7            	7           	7                          	7              	?
Keowana            	3            	163         	3                          	3              	?
Invalid/blank votes	163          	"Many"      	163                        	163            	163
Total              	1,055        	?           	1,055                      	892            	1,055
Registered voters  	?            	?           	?                          	4,897          	?
Source             	             	            	                           	               	
In Barbara Wilson's book of original sources, the July 1916 petitioners write the following: 
The 729 caught my eye since it seems the more likely total for valid votes after looking at the above data. Tkbrett (✉) 20:55, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I will also note here that English & McLaughlin cite Wilson for their numbers, so that is not a separate source. Moyer and Hayes do not say where their numbers come from. Tkbrett (✉) 14:17, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I added McKegney to the table. She cites Wilson throughout her book, yet she is the only one to have resolved the vote total issue by returning to the primary sources. Tkbrett (✉) 16:32, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  June vote discrepancies  

message: It seems to me that perhaps adding a See Also section with a wikilink to Swastika, Ontario might be appropriate here?  Yes, the town was named for Sanskrit symbol before use by the Nazis.  During WWII, the province attempted to rename the town to "Winston", but the town replaced the Winston sign with a Swastika sign and a message "To hell with Hitler, we came up with our name first." I just updated the Swastika, Ontario article so that it discusses the temporary name.  Normally, I would just make this change, but because this article is on today's DYK front page it seems better to discuss this.  Cxbrx (talk) 00:31, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: , That's fascinating. I never knew that existed, so I would support adding that to the see also section.  A S U K I T E  15:14, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: these are good points. ---Sm8900 (talk) 🌍 21:11, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

text: I've gone ahead and added it. I'd like to avoid having a see also section that becomes burdened with including every other controversial city name, but this one seems apt given that it relates to both Ontario and something controversially German. Outside of my research for the Berlin to Kitchener change, I'm unaware how many more similar cases there are. If the answer is a lot, it could make sense to collect them as List of Canadian place names changed from German names, similar to the article List of Australian place names changed from German names. Tkbrett (✉) 11:23, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

text: There are a couple of other former Berlins: Genevra, California, Marne, Michigan, Otoe, Nebraska. Anti-German sentiment does a pretty good job of covering this, though, so I don't think the See Also section here is really the best place for other examples. —Kusma (talk) 12:41, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: See Also: Swastika, Ontario

message: In this context, "Berlin to Kitchener" is a compound adjective, modifying the compound noun "name change" and a compound adjective usually requires hyphens, or some similar character, between its parts (consider a "blue-green shade" or a "twice-told tale"). Thus, it seems that the standard typography of the title of this article would be "Berlin-to-Kitchener name change" or something similar. catsmoke (talk) 04:48, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Sorry, I missed this when you originally commented here two years (!) ago. After reading up on compound adjectives in Garner's Modern American Usage (he terms them "phrasal adjectives"; pp. 625–628), I now understand their importance and I believe you are correct; it should be Berlin-to-Kitchener name change. I do not think this is a drastic and surprising change, so it can probably be moved right away, but I will give it a few days to see if anyone raises any objections. Tkbrett (✉) 14:04, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, "phrasal adjective" is the better term. Thank you for your attention to my suggestion. Thank you for the link to Garner's, I find it to be excellent. —catsmoke talk 13:22, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  I went ahead and moved the page, as I doubt anyone else is going to comment here. Tkbrett (✉) 15:16, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  A wise and correct move. —catsmoke talk 07:22, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Usage of "Berlin to Kitchener"