Talk:Terrorism in Australia

message: Per precedent of Islamic terrorism—Preceding unsigned comment added by DavidYork71 (talk • contribs) 
* 1st, apologies for not informing u. to anyone else (like me:) inclined to re-prod, we're no longer allowed to even if the original author deletes the prod. (i think author once wasn't allowed to remove it)
* i've removed the listing of the iraqi group as it's not about terrorist acts in aust.
* what do you think about renaming to reflect the content of this article. ie the specific group of people charged. (at the moment there isn't any 'Islamic terrorism in Australia'? something about 'lucas height plan' or something similar?  ⇒ bsnowball  08:12, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: my reasoning was just it's not about terrorism in oz, but about oz foreign affairs. the new tittle isn't much of a fix as it's still only a few ongoing investigations/trials & a hell of a lot of scaremongering. (this last being the angle i'm approaching this from:) so i thought these would be better dealt with as separate articles and/or mentioned in 'oz defence'/'law enforcement' where relevant. see what others think i guess. btw having finished the move, the cited precedent is actually re-directs to the correct term: 'Islamist terrorism', move again?  ⇒ bsnowball  11:49, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prod removed 

message: An intro is missing from this article. --Matt57 (talk•contribs) 14:49, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think I improved this. cygnis insignis 19:46, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article needs a lead 

message: Was the Russell Street Bombing politically motivated? Andjam (talk) 19:17, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: And is this the accepted definition of terrorism? cygnis insignis 19:46, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

text: The 1993 Bombay bombings were carried out by career criminals, like the Russell St. one, and had no particular political goal except as revenge for earlier riots against the Muslim population. The Russel St. bombing was done for either revenge on the police or to make the police feel fearful, thus it could be considered terrorism if the Bombay one is. --Mv dara dvm (talk) 15:57, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Russell Street Bombing relevance 

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:ASIO logo.jpg

message: Some content was deleted with the claim (since deleted) that there are suppression orders. The content deleted was uncited. Maybe the suppression order has been dropped, but I'm not certain. Any thoughts? Andjam (talk) 13:33, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think this. If factual information from a reliable source is available, and it is appropriate to the subject of this article, it should be included.  cygnis insignis 19:46, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suppression order? 

message: An editor (see here) is trying to jam a murder investigation into this article under the guise of "terrorism" using all manner of twisted POV synthesis and original research. Unless a respected reliable source can be found describing this as "terrorism" can be found, it must be kept out as per policy. Prester John (talk) 23:04, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Terrorism is a highly subjective term, "one man's terrorist is another man's ...". The current articles on this subject are often redirects to less ambiguous titles: Terrorism in ..., The articles named like this are usually in nations with legislation that use the term.  I had hoped to find Terrorism in Germany, and its absence is worth noting, because the term has a history that shows the degree of subjectivity in its definition. The legal use of the term in the Third Reich has been discussed in academic literature, almost all the sources I have read denounce their use of the term. If we had an article that listed individuals and groups deemed terrorists by that government or society, it would not present a legal determination or social construct as a 'fact', I expect it would explain the context of the subjective term. I placed the synthesis tag because the references are news articles that mention Australia/ns and terrorism, it needs a reliable source that discusses "Terrorism in Australia" to avoid being original research. If a number of groups and people have been identified as terrorists by a government department, this is what needs to be explained. However, this policy has itself been discussed by authors and journalists - that should be included too.  The scope of the article must first be established, any inclusion becomes questionable before this happens.  cygnis insignis 04:08, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Original Research

message: I'm rewriting this article to a) reflect the title b) add content and c) try and address some of the issues for this topic. Contact me here or at my talk page should you have comments or questions.Akitora (talk) 05:07, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Hicks and Habib don't belong in this article, as they don't fit the definition of terrorism as per the article's introduction or title.  i.e. they didn't commit terrorism offences in Australia.  Also, the History section includes events that are not generally accepted to be acts of terror.  Socrates2008 (Talk) 11:33, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

text: I tend to agree with Socrates. Cedars (talk) 14:37, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Rewrite

message: I think, under most definitions of terrorism, including those embodied in Australian legislation, Peter James Knight's killing of an abortion clinic guard would be considered terrorism, wouldn't it?  He committed a crime of violence with a political aim.  --Robert Merkel (talk) 06:55, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: If a reference can be found stating that this was 'terrorism', then yes Jwoodger (talk) 08:44, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  What about [[Peter James Knight]] 

message: there is no mention of croatians at all in this article, which is surprising, since they are the 'original' terrorists in australia. they are mentioned in the Lionel Murphy wiki article, and the australian-croatian wiki article, so should be mentioned here  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.159.2.34 (talk) 00:42, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  croatians 

message: This is a funny little article. "Islamist" terrorism has actually been only a small component of australias history of terrorism, but it actually forms almost the entire focus of the article, which really does paint a very unfair and biased picture of the muslim community which has by and large been somewhat well integrated and moderate in australia. I propose we need to fix this. The most prolific terrorist organisation in Australia that I am aware of was actually a Western Australian group called the "Australian Nationalist Movement", a Neo-Nazi organization that conducted a series of bombings in the 80s, along with a wave of bashings and a murder, and a small flap of bombings in 2004. A lesser but related group was an organization known as National Action, whom the ANM branched off from. There was a fair degree of violence associated with the group, although I think as far as it got was a shot gun attack on a chap named Eddie Funde, who was the representitive of the ANC (Nelson mandelas mob, not to be confused with the ANM!). To this we'd probably add a handfull of leser incidents (such as the recent shotgun attack on the mayland mosque by Combat 18), and that ought cover it. I think some attention needs to be paid to the abortion clinic attacks that happened in the, uh I think it was the 90s. I'll have a go at this, but I might need a more experienced wiki editor to clean it up. We should also be vigilant against existing claims in this article from crank sources like Daniel Pipes and the like. Duck Monster (talk) 13:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Far right groups 

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Regards, Rich Farmbrough, 00:18, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Pending changes

message: There have been a number of articles in the Fairfax newspapers in the last few days about the Croatian Six, and it is mentioned that they were the biggest terrorist bust in Australian history  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.32.135.162 (talk) 13:12, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Croatian Six 

message: The main article is "Terrorism in Australia", a fairly broad topic. Some of the sub-sections need more specific title changes. e.g.:
1. Acts of Terrorism in Australia
 - Sydney Hilton, Turkish Consulate
2. Acts of Terrorism Thwarted / Prevented in Australia
 - Sydney Five, Benbrika, Holsworthy, etc.
3. Acts of Terrorism Overseas Involving Australian Casualties and/or Fatalities
 - Bali Bombing, Australian Embassy in Jakarta
Regards, Airbiscuity (talk) 13:16, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Following up from that I don't think a counter-terrorism raid should be listed in the incidents section. Maybe a counter-terrorism section is needed since a terrorist incident is alleged rather than occurred. - Shiftchange (talk) 05:55, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sections need heading changes 

message: Possible, possible  terrorism incident occuring in Martin Place where hostages have been taken ≈ 9.45-9.50 AM in a Lindt cafe. People standing against the windows, holding up 'Islamic' flag's, though apparently not the ISIL flag. Trains through Martin Place station stopped, people evacuated or unable to leave buildings nearby.  --220 of Borg 23:57, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: See 2014 Sydney hostage crisis re above. --220 of Borg 02:00, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

text: The siege should not be included in this list.  None of the cited sources refer to it as a terrorist act.  Just because some people describe it as such doesn't mean it is. It should be removed. - Shiftchange (talk) 09:03, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Removed. Not all crimes committed by Muslims are automatically 'terrorism'.--Jeffro77 (talk) 10:12, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

text: The Sydney Siege has to be at least mentioned somewhere in here. It fits the definition of Lone_wolf_(terrorism), which is terrorism. Tony Abbott and other Australian security agencies warned of  "lone wolf terrorist attacks before", so i don't see how this siege is different from what they warned about. Maybe a separate lone wolf section but surely it has to be mentioned. Rump1234 (talk) 09:16, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: 'Lone wolf' in this sense is used in legal contexts in the US. Although the term may have been used once in an off-hand manner by the suppository of wisdom, the term does not automatically apply to events in Australia.--Jeffro77 (talk) 09:31, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

text: it was a criminal act by person who had had an appeal rejected by the courts... Tony Abbott as PM has been shown to be an unreliable source in relation to this incident already and as he isnt an expert in the field either is his description of it doesnt carry any authoritative significance Gnangarra 09:36, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Tony Abbott isn't the only one who spoke of lone wolf terror,"Asio said "Particular worries are the so-called 'lone wolf' or 'stand-alone' groups who act independently and throw off few clues as to malicious intent.He added the Norway attacks proved lone wolf terrorists could also not be ruled out.". The US also has refereed to it as " a lone wolf attack", although what the US calls it doesn't override everything else, i only use them as a example. Many Australian TV networks and newspapers have also referred to it as terror and spoke about the 'lone wolf'. Rump1234 (talk) 09:57, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Making any such claim about this incident requires very specific sources, and not merely a synthesis of more general 'concerns'.--Jeffro77 (talk) 10:04, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not trying make original claims or synthesize, sorry if it came off like that. I was just responding to the claim that tony abbott was the only one who spoke of lone wolf attacks. The US part was meant to be separate, as in someone is calling this specific incident a 'lone wolf attack'. The incident not being in the article at all just seems strange, even if mentioning that is a debated, lone wolf terror or just terror, incident in a small paragraph. Rump1234 (talk) 10:29, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The incident should only be mentioned in this article if/when there are reliable sources describing it as terrorism. See also WP:LABEL.--Jeffro77 (talk) 10:56, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: From the lede: Terrorism is defined as "an action or threat of action where the action causes certain defined forms of harm or interference and the action is done or the threat is made with the intention of advancing a political, religious or ideological cause".  Seems to define what happened in Martin Place.  Jeffro77,  What WP:RS (beyond the four cited) do you require to certify that this incident was "terrorism"?   If the Martin Place incident was not 'terrorism' then most other events described on this page are not terrorism either.  Sam56mas (talk) 11:57, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not a matter of what you think seems to be the case, or what is printed in tabloid journalism, or what is stated offhand in generic terms by politicians. The perpetrator is not known to have had ties to any terrorist group, and experts in the field have not called the event 'terrorism'.--Jeffro77 (talk) 12:17, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: But terrorist don't have to have actual links to groups, they can be individuals acting alone, their is no 100% definition of Terrorism. (Although the perpetrator did ask for an ISIL flag as a demand and several of the hostages in their videos and internet posts were forced by him to say it was an ISIL attack.) Rump1234 (talk) 06:58, 22 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Since there is "no 100% definition of terrorism", and it hasn't been explicitly indicated as terrorism by experts in the field, why are you so keen to say it is? WP:LABEL applies.--Jeffro77 (talk) 07:11, 22 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, the police did consider it a terrorist attack. (124.181.219.215 (talk) 06:06, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  15 December 2014 

message: I have tagged this article as being not neutral and bias as it only covers recent events with a focus primarily on those related to Islamic groups. It does this by having significant detail on those while having nothing more than list of other events and a token sentence masquerading as a whole section. Also it appears to have a scope beyond Terrorism in Australia with a similar focus. It doesnt carry any mentions of positive actions that have taken place in response to these events. Gnangarra 11:24, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I tend to agree. I've just removed material concerning terror attacks outside Australia, as they seem out of the article's scope (and several of the attacks were clearly not targeting Australians specifically; there could be a huge list of terrorist incidents worldwide in which Australians were affected) Nick-D (talk) 01:18, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't see the need for the POV tag, maybe an incomplete tag if there are other incidents to add, or they require more info. I don't see any overly excessive focus on Islamic terror. I.am.a.qwerty (talk) 07:14, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Really? Because the introductory paragraph makes specific reference to "Radical Islam" (linking to a page on Islamic Terrorism) via a link to the DFAT site... where the page in question is "missing". Meanwhile, of the thirteen attacks that have been given details, just four aren't Islamic cases, with only one of those four dating later than 1986, and that was a singular case of an anti-abortionist attack. The other three do not provide much detail at all on motives. Of the nine that were Islam-related, seven make specific references to Islam. The section on terrorist organisations makes particular note of the number of Islamic organisations on the list (despite this not being an article on the list of organisations), the "Future Threats" section speaks extensively on Muslim threats, and so on. And that one specific case where a motive other than something related to Islam makes reference to an article by Clive Williams that lists off a heap of instances of terrorism... but none of the other ones are listed, except the ones that are Muslim. Oh, and one of the references are to a case where one muslim acted a bit strangely while here, then was arrested in France on suspicion of terrorist activities (nothing confirmed). In other words, the article is most definitely skewed in a way that appears to intentionally focus on Islamic Terrorism. That is bias. Aielyn (talk) 15:05, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV & Bias 

message: I have created a re-direct here from Operation Appleby after Oz police carried out more "counter terrorism" raids yesterday. It may deserve to be expanded into it's own article perhaps? If there is another page it should be directed to instead, please do so. 
Perhaps Joint Counter Terrorism Team  or JCTT (AFP, NSW Police, ASIO & NSW Crime Commission joint team)  needs a page too, or a redirect here?220 of Borg 04:32, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  'Operation Appleby' Re direct 

message: This edit gives a fairly strong impression that fighters returning from Syria are likely to carry out terrorist attacks in Australia. That view should be balanced with the fact that they are just as likely to be disillusioned by their experiences and pose no threat.--Jeffro77 (talk) 02:29, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scare mongering? 

message: :http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-25/fact-file3b-five-facts-about-terrorism-in-australia/6226086  satusuro 02:40, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: relevant online source and topic

message: Might have an addition to this page, though only occurred in last 2 hours or less. 
Early ABC report says "The ABC understands that the incident is not terror related."
:Two people reportedly shot dead outside police headquarters in Parramatta ABC, 2 September 2015
One civilian Police employee reported dead, shooter shot dead too. 220 of Borg 08:03, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: * See 2015 Parramatta police shootings which is less than 3 hours old. 220 of Borg 07:50, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: *or 2015 Parramatta shooting which is a bit older at 5 hours. 220 of Borg 07:55, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shooting at NSW Police Headquarters in Parramatta 

message: Sydney counter-terrorism raids: 15yo one of two charged as part of Operation Appleby ABC News, 12 December 2015.
220 of Borg 05:32, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Raids in December 2015  

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replies: text: . Anarchyte (work | talk) 07:27, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I'm looking for information on the Flinders Street terror attacks, three in as many months. I managed to get screenshots of their facebook pages before they were memory holed, all were Islamic extremists even the kid who walked free without charge as he was a 'minor' with 'autism' and it was 'nothing to do with terrorism.' I have footage from all three attacks before (and after) the media censored them to remove shouts of 'allahu ackbar' etc. but this is top level censorship and doesn't really show the institutional and systemic suppression of information by people who think they're 'fighting racists' by hiding terrorism that makes up the majority of the censorship and straight up disappearance of information in the information age. 
It appears as far as Wikipedia goes they've memory holed the entire thing if it's shown up at all. I'm currently a student studying global terrorism and have noticed the lengths gone to in the suppression of terrorist attacks in western nations and the diversion of interest into said attacks towards non-issues so this is right up my alley for the paper I'm writing. I was wondering if there's ever been any attempt at discussing, posting information on, or documenting the Flinders Street attacks here and why they were removed and specifically if the people who removed it have shown a habit of removing information pertaining to terrorism, or pushing a specific political viewpoint? If anyone can answer any of those questions they'd be greatly appreciated. 121.210.33.50 (talk) 12:39, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flinders Street terror attacks.