Wikipedia talk:Polish Wikipedians' notice board/Archive2

message: ATM I have to object, but as I wrote, it can be made a FA with some effort. May I suggest some of you drop the city names issue and instead help adress the objections to this article? I am sure our dear papież would approve. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 21:35, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Pope John Paul II]]

message: See Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28policy%29/Archive H#Fixing_giant_loopholes_in_Wikipedia:Survey_guidelines if you are interested in making sure that the Gdansk/Vote is fixed and new similar votes won't be disputable. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 19:37, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Consequence of Gdansk/Vote 

message: Please take a look at the proposed title change for Camps in Poland during
WWII article. --Ttyre 20:45, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed title change 

message: I'm sorry that I put so many dukes into "to create/translate section", but I think this period of Polish history need to be realy developed (and we have quite good sources from pl: Wiki). Vuvar1 16:15, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dukes 

message: The 25th anniversary of the 1980 strikes which led to the creation of Solidarity is approaching.  It would be a great moment to make Solidarity (or some other related article) into a Featured Article.  We have about 2 months before the date, which should be plenty of time.  Anybody else thinks this is a good idea? Balcer 02:49, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I second. Let's put it as PCTW first, the article is short. Still, looking at NO activity with Wawel, I am afraid there is going to be little collaboration. I wish people would stop playing those silly Polish city name/nationality wars and instead put those time into helping us with this article... --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 16:24, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  25 years after 1980 

message: Rydel z Czalexem po cichu dodaja w kolejnych artykulach "bialoruski watek".
* Ignacy Hryniewiecki ktory krecil sie w polskich kolkach rewolucyjnych. Encyklopedia PWN mowi wyraznie "..car zginal 1881 na ulicy od bomby rzuconej przez Polaka (I. Hryniewieckiego);.."
* Jan Karol Chodkiewicz ktorego rodzina prawdopodobnie pochodzila z Kijowa. Co wystarcza by dodac go do kategorii "szlachta bialoruska"... Nie mialbym nic przeciwko gdyby dodali go do kategorii "litewska", ale "bialoruska" to absurd.
--Witkacy 22:50, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Rod Hryniewieckich oczywiscie pochodzenia bialoruskiego. Jak odbywalo zasiedlenie Podlasia bylo to z dwoch stron - z Mazowia i z WKL. Przodkowie Hryniewieckich pochodzili z WKL, mowie o tym brzmienie ich nazwiska i pierwotnie wyznanie prawoslawne. Panstwo moze zapytac u osob, ktore zajmuje sie dziejami Podlasia. Rod Chodkiewiczow tez pochodzenia bialoruskiego. Prosze pamietac, ze pojecie narodowosci to pojecie bardzo pozniejszego czasu od tego, w ktorym istnial Jan Karol Chodkiewicz. W jezyku polskim jest prawidlowym napisanie bialoruskich miast w tym napisaniu, jak jest prawidlowe po-polsku. Ale dla czego to musi byc prawidlowe w angelskiej Wikipedji? "Nie mialbym nic przeciwko gdyby dodali go do kategorii "litewska", ale "bialoruska" to absurd." — To jest juz zupelna glupota. — 195.50.4.174 23:12, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

text: It was all discussed on Talk:Ignacy Domeyko. I reverted one of his changes, since he deletes a useful disambig (Persia to Persian Empire in Chodkiewicz), but as usuall, I am not going to waste my time on those revert wars. However, I would like to raise one question: did Bielorusian nationality exist in 17th century, or was it simply part of a Ruthenian one that developed individuality in 19th century? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 08:50, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Narodowosc

message: *# :Image:Ksiaze Jozef.jpg 
:Juliusza Kossaka--Witkacy 16:27, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Januarego Suchodolskiego--Witkacy 16:35, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

text: Juliusza Kossaka--Witkacy 16:35, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Whose painting is this? 

message: Virtuti Militari and History of Poland (1945-1989). Virtuti needs references, so I ask all of you who have contributed to it (Halibutt, especially) to provide them. I will nominate them to FAC soon, so if you want to make any final adjustments before the review process begins (PR was just archived), do so now, so voting is faster and supports more common. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 17:48, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Close to FAC 

message: Zerknicie na ten artykul - nie spodobal sie niektorym osobom ...
--Witkacy 4 July 2005 21:41 (UTC)
Translation: Please take a look at that article - some people do not like it ...
Zapraszam do zabawy hipokrytow Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Anti-Polonism--Witkacy 4 July 2005 21:49 (UTC)
Translation: I invite you to the "game/party" of the hypocrites...
:No big surprise there.  At the time that article was created I was against it, since the term Anti-Polonism is non-existent in English, and it is not the job of Wikipedia to promote new words, however justified they might be.  Still, the article remained obscure, so I left it alone (disccouraged by nasty personal attacks by one Polish user/troll who has since left).  In recent days Witkacy started linking the article or its related category all over the place, and now we are seeing a predictable backlash from the Wikipedia community.  Unfortunately, I suspect the vote for deletion will be overwhelming. Balcer 4 July 2005 21:54 (UTC)
::It is a big suprise.... Nobody try to delete Anglophobia, Anti-Arabism, Anti-Semitist, Anti-French sentiment in the United States, Anti-American sentiment ect. is racism towards Poles something special?--Witkacy 4 July 2005 22:02 (UTC)
:::I would have no problem with Anti-Polish sentiment as a title.  Anything that is intelligible and easy to understand for a typical user of English Wikipedia would be fine.  Antipolonism is almost never used in English.  Plus it is unfortunately a word loaded with implicit POV, given the way it is used in Poland. Balcer 4 July 2005 22:27 (UTC)
::::First of all, the voting is about the article at all, not about the name. Is Anti-Polonism not intelligible and easy to understand for a typical user of English Wikipedia? Balcer nie zastanawiales sie dlaczego inne tego typu artykuly nie sa podawane do kasacji? Nie zostal dodany przez nazwe... --Witkacy 4 July 2005 23:08 (UTC)
:::::"Rename" is a valid option when voting for deletion.  In fact, I hope it offers a compromise solution.  Look, even if the word anti-polonism was not a neologism, I would still personally prefer to avoid using it, given its popularity among people writing books like this.  As for the other articles, I can only say that one bad article does not justify another one.  Unfortunately, Wikipedia is full of bad or inadequate articles. Balcer 4 July 2005 23:31 (UTC)
::::::Zwroc uwage na powod: "What's here can mostly be incorporated into Polish September Campaign, Holocaust, History of Poland, and Ethnic slurs. Even after the cleanup by Jayjg, it remains absurdly POV. The rest of it needs to go, as it's little more than uncited WP:NOR and a magnet for POV-pushers" - nazwa ma tu najmniej do znaczenia. W koncu to encyklopedia, wiec dlaczego Anglik ma nie wiedziec co to Antypolonizm, skoro jest uzywany w jego jezyku? W tego uzytkownika mniemaniu morderstwa i szyderstwa wobec Polakow to POV ... :) Jednak tylko polski artykul wzbudza zainteresowanie inne anty- juz nie - dlaczego? Odpowiedz powinna byc dopisana do artykulu :)--Witkacy 4 July 2005 23:53 (UTC)
:::::::Witkacy, would you be able not to use Polish language on English WP ? It is considered to be impolite by some, particularly those, who do not know the language. Thanks. --Lysy (talk) 5 July 2005 08:49 (UTC)
I really would be far from thinking that the fact that the word is used by some right-wing parties in Poland affects non-Poles at any way. Moreover, I think that the effort here should be focused on writing an objective article without caring what the parties might say. --SylwiaS 5 July 2005 00:40 (UTC)
:Unfortunately, some words have an agenda behind them, and they are inherently non-neutral.  Take a look at another example in what circumstances this word is often used (and here). Don't you find it curious that the concepts of anti-semitism and anti-polonism somehow seem to run together in these publications?
:Finally, let me add a quote by Jerzy Turowicz from this article, which explains the issue well (I will translate this if someone requests it):
:Oczywiście Ojciec Święty odróżnia antysemityzm od antyjudaizmu. Antyjudaizm dotyczy płaszczyzny ściśle religijnej. Antysemityzm może być także rasistowski, niemniej jednak faktem jest, że ma pewne chrześcijańskie korzenie -- i temu Ojciec Święty nie przeczy. Oskarżenia o Bogobójstwo, katechizacja z tak zwanym "nauczaniem pogardy", to właśnie chrześcijańskie korzenie antysemityzmu. Dlatego też jest dużo do zrobienia w Polsce, gdzie badania opinii społecznej wykazują, że duży procent ludzi uważa, że Żydzi dzisiaj rządzą krajem, co jest absurdem. Żydów było 3,5 mln przed wojną, a dzisiaj jest ich kilka tysięcy. Są Polacy, którzy lubią usprawiedliwiać antysemityzm antypolonizmem środowisk żydowskich. To jest zupełnie błędne postawienie sprawy, bo antypolonizm jest skutkiem antysemityzmu. Antypolonizm jest nieraz krzywdzący i niesprawiedliwy, ale jest wynikiem tego, że rodzice czy dziadkowie Żydów, urodzonych w Ameryce, którzy przyjechali tam z Polski i przywieźli swoje doświadczenia, byli ofiarami tego antysemityzmu. Pogromy, dyskryminacja, niechęć na uniwersytetach -- oni ten bagaż ze sobą przywieźli i on w reakcji powoduje antypolonizm, więc tego nie można stawiać na równi. Balcer 5 July 2005 17:12 (UTC)
Another relevant passage, from here:
Poszukiwanie za wszelką cenę symetrii cierpień, naginanie rzeczywistości do tego samego wymiaru zniszczenia narodu, przyczyniło się do ukucia terminu „antypolonizm” jako odpowiednika „antysemityzmu”. Mają to być zjawiska równorzędne i warte siebie. Ksiądz Michał Czajkowski mówił: „Zawsze podkreślam, że nie można stawiać na równi antypolonizmu i antysemityzmu. Tu nie ma symetrii. Żydowski antypolonizm nikogo nie zabił. Antysemityzm zabił miliony” (Artur Domosławski, „Spowiedź Kościoła”, „Gazeta Wyborcza” z 16-17 IX 2000). Nie da się też sprawy załatwić w sposób następujący: my – was, wy – nas. My mieliśmy być pomocnikami hitlerowskich katów, ale wy gnoiliście nas w ubeckich kazamatach. My antysemici, lecz wy – stalinowcy. Balcer 5 July 2005 17:17 (UTC)
Finally, see this link. I quote it here in full:
Byłem na wykładzie prof. Jerzego Roberta Nowaka, który przyjechał do parafii na zaproszenie naszego proboszcza. Gdy znajomi pytają mnie, o czym było spotkanie, odpowiadam, że o Żydach. Dowiedziałem się, że oni są odpowiedzialni za nasze niepowodzenia, także przyszłe. Chyba że zrobimy z nimi porządek (może wywieziemy na Madagaskar, jak głosiły napisy na murach w moim mieście dwadzieścia parę lat temu?).
Profesor stwierdził, że w Polsce nie ma antysemityzmu tylko antypolonizm. Tak wielki, że sięga korzeniami całego świata, o czym świadczą liczne przykłady dostarczane mu przez słuchaczy i czytelników. Szerzą go wszędzie obecni Żydzi. Każdemu narodowi dostało się po trochu, poza Prawdziwymi Polakami-Katolikami (prof. Nowak osobiście decyduje, kto do tej grupy należy).
Siedziałem w kącie i przygotowywałem kontrargumenty, gdy do głosu doszła publiczność. Zdrętwiałem: tezy Nowaka są akceptowane nie w 100, ale w 200 proc.! Ludzie urządzili słowną krucjatę przeciwko Żydom, wykupującym nas Niemcom, szkodnikom Polski... przeciwko całemu światu, który nic innego nie robi, tylko szkodzi Polsce. Próbując trzeźwo ocenić sytuację, doszedłem do wniosku, że jestem Żydem-antypolonistą! W sali wrzało. Prof. Nowak prosił, aby nie mówić, że za wszystko odpowiedzialni są Żydzi, tylko wskazywać, który konkretny Żyd. Posypały się nazwiska, tytuły gazet, nazwy partii politycznych, fundacji i organizacji. Większość tytułów można znaleźć w moim domu, są moimi ulubionymi albo przynajmniej takimi, po które sięgam, słucham ich, z którymi sympatyzuję. Okazało się, że należy czytać jedynie „Niedzielę”, „Nasz Dziennik” i słuchać Radia Maryja. Reszty plugastwa nawet nie dotykać. [...]
::Bacler..., jak narazie, to nawet nie zostal stworzony watek antpolonizmu wsrod Zydow w artykule... Nie zgadzam sie rowniez z Turowicza zdaniem, bo niby co ma wspolnego szkalowanie Polakow na granicach, w Stanach czy w Europie zachodniej lub pomysl Niemcow  wyniszczenia calego narodu polskiego z antysemityzmem? Wiec 852,000 (sic!) stron ktore zawieraja w google slowo "polish jokes" tez jest skutkiem antysemityzmu? A Meta How to deal with Poles, rowniez? :) A tak na marginesie w polskim MSZ powstal katalog antypolonizmow http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=Katalog+antypolonizm%C3%B3w+mSZ A Rotfeld  stwierdzil ze bedzie wpieral kazda organizacje ktora zajmie sie walka ze szkalowaniem Polski--Witkacy 5 July 2005 17:32 (UTC)
::Lot's of interesting material. Instead of translating it here, I would ask you to add the relevant section to the AP article itself, describing its abuse (?) by far-right nationalistic parties in Poland. Note also that most far-right nationalistic parties, no matter what country they come from, use similar aguments, dividing the world between 'us' and 'them'. This, however, should not discredit the concept - just as, for example, social darwinism should not discredit social evolutionism. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 5 July 2005 18:02 (UTC)
:::I admit that maybe I am being oversensitive on this whole issue.  I can see now some evidence that, as language evolves, the term anti-polonism appears to be coming into wider use, at least in Polish. Come to think of it, if we make the article about it balanced and rational, discuss how the very formulation of the idea of antipolonism is still a work in progress, plus include some discussion of the way the term is misused by some groups, then it might become a very useful article. Balcer 5 July 2005 19:00 (UTC)
*What I wanted to say, but couldn't do it properly in English was: Nie dajmy się zwariować. I know that there are biased media but it doesn't mean that I have to waste my time and learn their opinion or bother to search for words that are not ill used by them. I think those people deserve nothing but being ignored. There is not a problem with the word itself only with their POV. Paying them attention I would only do them a favour, so what's the point? I believe that the article here will be as balanced as possible, because our goal is to show the real problem, not the alleged one. So maybe it's even better that we'll use the same word, as some people might want to confront the biased opinions with Wikipedia. I think it's a good idea to additionally show how the word is misused, but I would be careful here as well not to spoil the main object of the article. To quote once more a Polish phrase: Krowa, która dużo ryczy... I think that the main problem with them is that they are making a big fuss, not that they are very popular or influential. We just don't like them, are ashamed of them, so they irritate us more and because of that are more visible for us, but still it doesn't mean that e.g. nationalist parties have any serious chances in elections etc., which shows real support of people. --SylwiaS 5 July 2005 20:31 (UTC)
*One more thing to calm you down. There are of course idiots in every country or nation, what is important is not to let them fool you. I think the situation in Poland is really not a bad one. Please, see an anti-Semitism global report: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/global2004.html. The situation in Poland is comparable to that in Finland, which is famous for taking particular care of their minorities. Surprisingly the USA are not included in the report, so that's what I've found instead: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/ADL_audit.html --SylwiaS 5 July 2005 20:49 (UTC)
::I'm afraid your view of the question may be somewhat too optimistic.  I suggest you take a look at the latest report by the Council of Europe and its Commission Against Racism and Intolerance (link to report), especially the special chapter Konieczność walki z antysemityzmem w Polsce. Balcer 5 July 2005 22:05 (UTC)
:::""Wspomniany raport powołując się na pojedyncze przypadki - w sposób naszym zdaniem nieuzasadniony - może wywoływać u czytelników obraz Polski jako państwa dość powszechnego antysemityzmu. Zawiera ponadto krytyczne oceny odnoszące się do sytuacji Romów w naszym kraju. Taki sposób prezentacji wywołał prawdziwe zdumienie, a nawet oburzenie zarówno w środowiskach żydowskich i romskich w Polsce" - czytamy m.in. w liście."
:::http://wiadomosci.onet.pl/1118517,11,item.html
:::"Z kolei przewodniczący Związku Gmin Żydowskich w Polsce, Jerzy Kichler, powiedział PAP, że w ostatnich dwóch latach nie było w Polsce żadnych poważnych incydentów antyżydowskich. Był zdziwiony danymi przytaczanymi przez "Le Figaro", że Polska przoduje w liczbie wystąpień antysemickich w Europie Wschodniej.
:::"Nie znam takich statystyk, ale Polska zdecydowanie plasuje się w ich dolnej strefie. Wystarczy przejść się ulicami w Polsce" - powiedział Kichler.""--Witkacy 9 July 2005 14:31 (UTC)
:::http://wiadomosci.onet.pl/1111879,12,item.html
:::"Według znanych mi statystyk, z danych sprzed kilku miesięcy, to Francja przoduje w ilości szeroko rozumianych incydentów antyżydowskich. Właśnie dlatego, że sytuacja we Francji jest bardzo niepokojąca - w Paryżu ma się odbyć posiedzenie światowego Kongresu Żydów. Kolejnym krajem w tej statystyce jest Austria" - powiedział Kichler.
:::Jego zdaniem, w Polsce z punktu widzenia liczby przypadków i dynamiki zjawiska nastąpił znaczny spadek tego rodzaju incydentów. "W ciągu ostatnich dwóch lat poważnych incydentów w Polsce nie było, może poza kilkoma uszkodzeniami nagrobków na cmentarzach" - dodał.
:::"Dlatego jestem zdziwiony tego rodzajem raportu OBWE, chyba że ktoś do własnych politycznych celów chce używać naciąganych badań statystycznych" - powiedział PAP Kichler.
:::http://wiadomosci.onet.pl/1111628,11,item.html--Witkacy 9 July 2005 14:37 (UTC)
Thanks. Actually I read the report earlier. I also read that our government protested the report as too exaggerated in its opinion about the situation in Poland. That's why I looked for another source which would compare the situation in Poland to other countries. Of course I don't say that what is now is a perfectly acceptable situation, but I also don't think we should be harsher to ourselves than other countries are to themselves writing encyclopedia, unless we want to give more arguments to those who are already biased against us. Anyhow I think that the discussion is a bit futile now as there is not a ready text to discuss and at the end it may appear that we are in fact in an agreement about what should be written there and all our concerns were premature. --SylwiaS 6 July 2005 23:11 (UTC)
:Sylvia, the authoritative source on anti-Semitism around the world is ADL: US, international. Balcer, please try to see beyond Poland and Polish perspective if you can... Remember that in the US KKK demonstrations (once they secure  the proper permit) are protected by local police force and the ACLU makes sure that white supremacists' right to free speech is not violated. --Ttyre 7 July 2005 00:57 (UTC)
Thanks. It seems that what I found before was copied from this site, but this site is a much better source. BTW I've just read there among others that 88% of Americans think that Holocaust should be taught at schools. Oh my, does it mean it is not?! --SylwiaS 7 July 2005 03:52 (UTC)
:Many, if not most States, have legislated a requirement to include Holocaust education in public elementary, middle, and high schools. For that purpose some States e.g. Florida, have defined the term Holocaust more narrowly as mostly Jewish experience (see A Teacher's Guide to the Holocaust), while others, e.g. California, expanded it to include teaching about other genocides, as well as human rights and tolerance (see California Center for Excellence website). These two programs offer quite a mixed bag: e.g. Florida program's online guide includes some information about the Poles , yet it fails to even mention Zegota or efforts of Polish Government in Exile. It used to have a map (now only the title of the page - see top left corner) titled "Polish Death Camps"  and has these pages (if you wonder to know who were the Nazis): , , , . California's project, on the other hand, doesn't include Poland on their list of genocides , and doesn't list any Poland/Polish-related websites  either. However, if you would dig into their PDF materials, you would find a 2-page write-up about Polish WWII experience. This has been included there due to a successful lawsuit brought against the State of California by local Polonia many years ago. --Ttyre 7 July 2005 11:05 (UTC)
::Ttyre, I looked through the links and I really don’t know what to say. I certainly didn’t expect that. I’m seriously wondering if something can be done with it? Maybe it would help if we send the links to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs? Any other ideas, anyone? On the other hand, at least I better understand now some latest comments on Wiki about Poles. I can see that their authors don’t intend to particularly hurt us, they just believe that they are right. Apart from the Polish case, what I find highly appalling, is the form in which Holocaust is presented there. The most complex human sufferance ever is showed mostly by several events and numbers. That explains, why something as unique as Holocaust, which was first of all an unprecedented agony of many individuals, where every personal history is different and no one’s own experience can be compared to another, is often turned into contest of numbers. --SylwiaS 8 July 2005 16:46 (UTC)
:::No question there is plenty of anti-Polish bias out there, especially outside the mainstream media (which does have some minimal standards).  Take a look, for example, at a recent article about the March of the Living in Poland  (just click OK on the java mini-window, and it will work).  And then something a bit older, but even more silly link.  So, I do not dispute the fact that we have to fight anti-Polish bias.  I am just not sure that an article like anti-Polonism, with all its "baggage", so to speak, is the best way to do it. Balcer 8 July 2005 16:58 (UTC)
::::Very silly, indeed. I will assume that, especially the second one, was wrote by someone as prejudiced as some of our right-wing people. --SylwiaS 9 July 2005 12:06 (UTC)
Prosze cos na deser Anti-Semitism in Poland artykul ktory zostal stworzony przez neo-nazistke helge - Tak wyglada sytuacja w Polsce :) (na marginesie, nie istnieja inne artykuly, jak np Antysemityzm w Niemczech itd.). --Witkacy 22:59, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Tylko spokojnie, to artykuł napisany dzisiaj (10 lipca) przez jednego anonima z poważnymi problemami psychicznymi.  Na pewno nie odzwierciedla ogólnego klimatu panującego na Wikipedii.  Zresztą już w tej chwili jest usuwany. Nawet jeśli zostanie, na pewno nie będzie w formie której jest obecnie.  Balcer 23:10, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Jak narazie sa same glosy na zostawienie.--Witkacy 23:12, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Bo sam jeszcze nie zagłosowałeś :).  Atrykuł jest na vfd na razie tylko 30 minut, daj ludziom szansę. Balcer 23:22, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Wlasnie daje ludziom szanse i sam nie zaglosuje ;) redirect moim zdaniem nie jest dobrym rozwiazaniem ze wzgledu na to kto zakladal ten artykul (w jakim celu) i ze nikt wczesniej nie wpadl na pomysl by stworzyc taki redirect bynajmniej do Niemiec.--Witkacy 23:29, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Anti-Polonism]]

message: Please help rewrite Poland#Economy, which is a copyvio of CIA Factbook on Polish economy. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 09:06, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Poland copyvio - what a shame 

message: Please vote: Wikipedia:Votes_for_deletion/Anti-Semitism_in_Poland. --Ttyre 00:22, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anti-Semitism in Poland 

message: I hope you don't mind if I write this here. Halibutt pointed me to this page. Some people from the German Wikipedia had the idea to set up a German-Polish meetup on the island of Uznam/Usedom in the end of August. We already posted invitations to the wikipl list, on the Polish Wikipedia and in the wikipl chat but up to now the reaction is quite low. I hope many of you like this proposal and are as curious as we are to get to know the Wikipedians from the other side of the border. If you are interested, I would be happy to see your name added here: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Treffen_der_Wikipedianer_auf_Usedom/Spotkanie_Wikipedystów_na_Uznam.
This is the text as it was posted by Sicherlich:
:Witajcie Wikipedyści, zapraszamy na Spotkanie Wikipedystów na Uznam! Spotkanie odbędzie się 27/28. sierpnia! Koszt uczestnictwa to 6 EUR za noc i osobę na kempingu (12EUR z prowiantem). Wieczorem możliwy grill. Jeśli jesteś zainteresowany: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Treffe_der_Wikipedianer/Usedom. Można pisać po angelsku lub po niemecku! .. Jeśli nie mówisz w żadnym z tych języków to spróbuj po polsku! ;) .. Jeśli zrozumiem będę tłumaczyć. Proszę szybko odpowiedzieć bo chcęmy rezerwować! ;) Na ra Sicherlich
: We hope to see many of you in the end of August ;-) -- Baldhur
: Why do all Wikipedian meetings in Europe ave to happen just as I go to another continent... :( --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 20:48, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Invitation 

message: See :Commons:Commons:Featured_picture_candidates: Image:Jan Matejko-Astronomer Copernicus-Conversation with God.jpg and Image:Rzeczpospolita voivodships.png . Feel free to vote. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 10:40, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Voting on 2 pics at Featured Pictures - Commons 

message: I am working to try and bring Makuria up to Featured Article level. It still needs a lot of work, and one thing it is lacking is images. Because of the work of Polish archaeologists in this area, the world's greatest collection of Makurian art and artifacts is at the National Museum in Warsaw. I am wondering if anyone plans to visit the museum, and if it would be possible to take some GFDL images of Nubian artifacts while they were there. Of greatest interest would be some of the paintings from the Faras cathedral. - SimonP 04:46, July 21, 2005 (UTC)
: Anybody from Warsaw? Unfortuantely, I am from Katowice, Silesia. Btw, remember to submit the article to Peer Review first before FAC. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 10:03, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Anyone planning to visit the museum?

message: Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Religious persecution by Jews --Ttyre 15:32, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Interesting voting 

message: Artykul warty uwagi, za sprawa niektorych osob ktore niemile widza w nim link do antypolonizmu (argument przeciw mozna przeczytac na mojej stronie dyskusyjnej...) - Proces w Polsce, prowadzony przez Polakow przeciwko mordercom Polakow nie zasluguje w mniemaniu owych osob na link do antypolonizmu...--Witkacy 01:07, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Auschwitz Trial]]

message: Crossposted to: Wikipedia talk:Polish Wikipedians' notice board, Wikipedia:Wikiportal/Russia/Russia-related Wikipedia notice board, Wikipedia talk:Wikiportal/Belarus, Wikipedia:Wikiportal/Ukraine/Ukraine-related Wikipedia notice board
I'd like to propose that Polish, Russian, Ukrainian, Belarussian (and anybody else who wants to join, you will excuse me if I won't list everyone here, I tried to reach everybody on the Wikipedia:Regional notice boards) Wikipedians join forces and try together to promote some articles to FA, instead of (what seems to be more common, unfortunately) fighting over which name should go first and similar petty issues :>
In this spirit I invite you all to comment on Polish-Muscovy War (1605-1618), an article I (mostly, wiki being wiki) have written over the past few months. It can definetly benefit from introducing Russian/English spelling of some names/people that I added knowing only Polish spelling, adjusting my Polish POV and adding more info from Russian/other sources I have no access to. I believe this article is fairly comprehensive, and we can make it reach FA. In few days I will submit it to Peer Review, and if there are no disputes on PR/article's talk page I will submit it to FA in over a week.
Once again, I invite your comments and edits, and hope this will be the first of many similar projects that proves we can work on together, to show our Eastern European history and culture to English-speaking world, most of whom unfortunately seem never to heard about Muscovy of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. If you like this initative. For now, I invite everybody to copy their replies to my talk page; if there is enough interest, perhaps we can create a serparate page to discuss it (Wikiproject:Eastern Europe or sth like this). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 17:36, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Not sure how much on-topic this is here, but I'd like to make you aware of the existence of the Slavopedia initiative on meta. Thanks, tsca ✉ 18:43, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eastern-European cooperation proposal 

message: malym zainteresowaniem na stronie 3rr, chcialbym zwrocic uwage na anonimowego pana z bratniej nacji zachodniej ktory uzywa User:213.198.84.193, User:213.198.84.198, User:84.188.240.172, i tego podobnych anonimowych IP, dzialajac w okregu  artykulow pana  Kopernika, Podolskiego i Klose--Witkacy 22:14, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: W zwiazku z

message: Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Witkacy/Black Book. --Ttyre 02:08, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  VfD - Here we go again! 

message: A clique of editors is claiming that Daniel Pipes is Polish, but not Jewish.  Can you take a look?
:For what it's worth, Daniel Pipes is the son of Richard Pipes, "a Polish American scholar [who] was born in Cieszyn, Poland, to a wealthy Jewish family."  logologist 13:08, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: His both parents are Jewish, see: Talk%3ADaniel_Pipes#He_is_of_Ashkenazi_Jewish_descent. --Ttyre 22:31, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Daniel Pipes

message: In the article about Anti-Polonism in a section referring to Germany it is said that: Poland is accused of having caused WWII. Can anyone tell, what does it mean? Are the accusations common or there are particular examples, which can be sourced in this article? --SylwiaS 18:11, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It was put by an anon, so I've just removed it. --SylwiaS 21:28, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

text: Wydaje mi sie ze chodzi 1. o zarzut niemieckich neo-nazistow ktorzy nadal wierza w prowokacje "Gleiwitz" 2. o zarzut (z ktorym rowniez mozna sie spotkac na wikipedii) ze Niemcy stracili West-Prusie (czytaj Wielkopolske) i nie oddali Gdanska dla pana Adolfa (chodz milo prosil) i 3. ze Polska jako panstwo w ogole powstalo. Mozna ten temat troche rozwinac, bo pewne sentymenty jednak istnieja.--Witkacy 22:51, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It should be developed then. The sentence I removed was rather suggesting that this is official point of view of Germany. BTW I congratulate to Witkacy and Molobo being promoted to a position in which they are hold responsible for texts written by anons. :-) --SylwiaS 23:12, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Nie no, oficjalna pozycja to nie jest - ale wsrod przecietnych ludzi, na tyle popularna ze wypadalo by o tym napisac :)--Witkacy 23:21, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I reworded it and added a case sourced by Molobo. BTW Are you going to have a new talk page since the one you have is blocked? --SylwiaS 01:34, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Tymczasowo nie, ale jest poczta i to bez rozmow kontrolowanych ;)--Witkacy 01:53, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question 

message: Piotrus is left and currently we are left without an admin to defend our club here ;). Could someone take a look at contributions of  and ? The earlier is Zivinbudas-like, although I'm pretty sure it's not him personally. The latter introduces some strange Soviet/German propaganda and POV to articles on WWII. Halibutt 08:19, August 12, 2005 (UTC)
: I am regaining my Internet access, although it may be some days before I have enough time for serious activity again. Remember there are always places like Wikipedia:Vandalism in progress, Wikipedia:Requests for comments or Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard, just to name a few. There are many competent admins out there who will be happy to help you while I am busy. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 19:28, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neo-whatever 

message: Can anyone look at the Anti-Polonism article? I've already used my 3rr. Thanks --SylwiaS 17:04, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Troche sie zgubilem w tych mieszankach - czegos brakuje w artykule?--Witkacy 22:16, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

text: Artykul wymaga wiecej uwagi, przyciaga troli i takich co chetnie by schowali swoj rasizm pod dywan. Jak dobrze ze w wiki zostaje wszystko w archiwach - kazdy bedzie mogl w przyszlosci sprawdzic: kto probowal go skasowac, kto wandalizowal i kto staral sie zatrzec slady--Witkacy 21:07, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  A-P reverts 

message: I just wanted to let you know about a list of Poland-related items on Votes for Deletion.  It's part of WikiProject Deletion sorting, and you can find it here.  I hope you can use it to track and contribute to Poland-related deletion debates.  If you find the list useful, please also help keep it up to date.
By the way, new deletion sorters are welcome and needed.  Join us!
Cheers,
-- Visviva 03:39, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Poland-related items on Votes for Deletion

message: Is there a place at PL portal similar to Portal:Russia/New article announcements and Portal:Ukraine/New article announcements? Anyway, some editors here might be interested to check Faddei Zielinski started by user:Barbatus. Of course everyone is welcome to keep an eye on RU/UA boards above as well. And please don't forget Wikipedia:Eastern European Wikipedians' notice board, which I hope has some future. Thanks! --Irpen 00:15, August 28, 2005 (UTC)
: Not that I know of, although you may want to check Wikipedia:Polish Wikipedians' notice board/to do - I did try to start a 'recently done' section, but few ppl seem to be interested in updating it. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 22:29, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Any place for new articles announcements?

message: It would be nice if we could sort articles from commons:Category:Poland. There are quite a few subcategories, but a) they are fairly chaotic b) there are still quite a few pictures not assigned to a category c) there are some pictures on en and pl wiki that could be moved to commons. (I'd like to create a template similar to :Template:Move to Wikimedia Commons specifically to tag various articles we want moved - what do you think?). I recently got many dozens of great grafics and photos related to szlachta and PLC from Darek Wielec which I will be uploading to Commons soon, and I would like to have them properly categorised. I'd like to suggest we start series of categories related either to :Template:Polish statehood or :Template:History of Poland so we can assign all pictures to the relevant period (i.e. I'd like to be able to direct sb to an Wiki album with all pictures from let's say PLC period). So, if sb wants to play with pictures instead of text, for a little change of setting, we can use any and all help in Commons. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 22:29, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, this is what I have done: on pedia, we have now :Category:Polish historical images, a subcategory of :Category:History images. Further, since I am mostly interested (ATM) in creating a gallery of PLC related images, I have created a subcategory to Polish historical images, one of :Category:Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth historical images. On Commons I decided to work from :commons:Category:History of Poland, to which I created a subcategory of :commons:Category:Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. I hope you join me in categorisning the images - feel free to create other subcategories for other historical periods. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 16:49, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Commons 

message: Unfortunately I've got involved in a revert war with some crazy pro-Soviet nationalist. Is anyone aware of any "Polish partisans" fighting Soviets in Finnland ? He mentions it here. I'm almost sure he either invents these things or confuses something. Any idea ? --Lysy (talk) 17:38, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Polish partisans ? 

message: Nie trwalo to dlugo, ale nowy przyjaciel pojawil sie na horyzoncie  - sledzenie jego wkladu, by bylo na miejscu.--Witkacy 23:40, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I said you should forward the dispute to Dispute Resolution, not to Polish administrators in the vain hope you'd find some biased one among them. Are you afraid of Dispute Resolution? And stop denouncing my edits as "vandalism". If anyone vandalises, it's certainly the one who never explains anything in his edit summaries except for accusations against other editors ... but this is you, not me. It's not my fault that you cannot follow rules and this has undermined a lot of your credibility, not mine.NightBeAsT 23:50, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

text: If you mean using the current name for a geographic entity — usually, the name preferred by its present inhabitants — I would support that whole-heartedly.  It would prevent the "Danzig"-Gdańsk" type anomaly.  logologist 03:08, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Chodzi o uzywanie niemieckiej nazwy dla miasta, gdy nie nalezalo ono do Niemiec (nie mowimy o dzis, chodz juz raz fani klamliwego szablonu starali sie przeforsowac dodawanie niemieckich nazw w artykulach jak polskie kluby pilkarskie - ale o tym juz chyba kazdy slyszal ;) ). Ogolnie sklaniam sie coraz bardziej do uzywania obecnych nazw miast - rowniez w historycznym kontekscie - ale jedynie gdy bedzie to oficjalnie postanowione, i owa regula uzawana na calej wiki (bez wyjatkow).--Witkacy 20:07, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

text: parodia... przemowienie Bismarcka jest POV :))--Witkacy 14:08, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Nowy przyjaciel

message: Strona została odblokowana.Radzę zerknąć.
--Molobo 10:21, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Antypolonizm odblokowany

message: I have collected Poland-related templates on Wikipedia:WikiProject History of Poland/Periodization. Did I miss any? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 22:38, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I added Template:Polish Underground State sidebar. Appleseed 02:14, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Templates

message: Hello, I am seeking an advice and if possible, help, regarding the request for translation for Zbigniew Dłubak.  As far as I can see, this article is a copy of Zbigniew Dłubak in the Polish wikipedia.  So strictly speaking, this one here is supposed to be moved out and a request for translation be entered appropriately into WP:TIE instead (which I will do momentarily)... except I thought this one might as well be a somewhat special case because the artist passed away so recently.  So may be there would be some interest in having this little article translated even if only partially?   Regards - Introvert talk 08:08, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Many thanks! so promptly   - Introvert talk 01:37, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Zbigniew Dłubak 

message: Wbrew poprzedniemu głosowaniu, kilku adminów i użytkowników chce zlikwidować i tak już atakowany artykuł.Nominowano go używając argumentu-"This is bullshit".
--Molobo 18:15, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Uwaga, ponowna próba zlikwidowania artykułu o antypoloniżmie