Talk:Halifax, Nova Scotia/Archive 3

message: I've added Halifax Harbour to the page, mainly because I've been doing some stuff that refers to the port of Halifax, and I previously didn't know where to link it to. Now I do, I find it's not on the Disambiguation page, so I've added it. But I feel I'm diving into a can of worms by doing so, so apologies!
And I agree with the above; it is confusing as it is! Xyl 54 16:39, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Halifax Harbour

message: I've attempted to make a first draft of a new Halifax, Nova Scotia article, in my userspace here. It's in a very rough-and-ready form, and needs a lot of tidying, sorting, and being made consistent, as well as a proper opening, before it's ready. But it should give an idea as to what I believe that article should contain.  If implemented, it would replace the City of Halifax article as well as the current disambiguation page, and would also contain material transferred from the Halifax Regional Municipality article, and from the Halifax Urban Area article too.
Thoughts are welcome!  --RFBailey 19:29, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A second version is now available.  --RFBailey 03:55, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Attempt at a compromise article

message: WP seems to have lost its way here. There seem to be lots of articles on different obscure permutations of local government areas, but nothing I can find on the place. In most cases WP writes articles on places, not local government areas.
I'm trying to update the base Halifax dab page to include a 'most often' list in the lede, but I simply cannot find an appropriate single article to represent what most people do mean when the talk about Halifax, Nova Scotia. Help. -- Starbois (talk) 10:41, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Can somebody tell me where the article on the place called Halifax in Nova Scotia is? 

message: I realize that this has been debated to death, and it seems that discussion has died down recently, but the Halifax articles are unacceptable in their current state.
As someone who has never been to Nova Scotia, I am part of the "target audience" of these articles - people who don't know much about Halifax and want a good overview. That being said, I think I know enough about the area from what I have learned to make some educated assumptions about what should go where.
* The City of Halifax article should be the main article in the Halifax, Nova Scotia namespace, because it is the article that most people will want. (The History section in particular is very good.) It should be a general overview of Halifax the place and its relationship to the other articles. This would also be good for consistency - Dartmouth and Bedford are both former cities inside the HRM and yet both get to keep their own articles. The Dartmouth article mentions that the name "Dartmouth" is still used in an official capacity. I am aware that the confusion arises because the former City of Halifax and the HRM both have "Halifax" in their names, but once you get past that, it's really not confusing at all. Imagine the HRM was called something different without "Halifax" in its name, and the division of articles becomes clear. Halifax is still a place, even if it's no longer a city.
* The Halifax Regional Municipality article should mostly contain information about municipal governance. It should not be the first article the reader sees. The list of constituent communities should be more prominent. That being said, I think that a little bit of overlap could be good in this situation.
* The Halifax County, Halifax Peninsula, Halifax Harbour, Metropolitan Halifax, and Mainland Halifax articles are all okay the way they are and can probably stay that way.
That's my brief assessment of the articles. I think I'm just scratching the surface with this - there's the matter of which topics are covered in each article - but it's important to get the ball rolling. It's been two years since any discussion happened.
And if this restarts the debate all over again, that's good, because talking about it is better than just lying back and accepting this half-baked compromise. (winces, hesitantly clicks "save page" and prepares for the worst) Guff Brooking (talk) 04:17, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: To your first point - Dartmouth still exists as an administrative unit, Dartmouth/Cole Harbour.  Halifax does not, it has been split into the Mainland and Peninsula.  So yes, Dartmouth still is used, but not Halifax in that way, except in the vernacular.   Two your second point, HRM is a single polity, to treat it as an administrative district would be like doing so for Metro Toronto or New York City, years after they were amalgamated.  Of course the main article for Toronto is the greater Toronto, not the old City of Toronto.  Culturally, economically, administratively, HRM is Halifax, and should be the primary article.  Are we grown up enough to do that?  If so, lets make Halifax, NS point to HRM, and rename City of Halifax to the History of Halifax.   Final point - thanks for the props around the history of Halifax, that took a lot of research!  :)  WayeMason (talk) 20:51, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I completely support Guff Brooking's point.  What he so clearly points out, and was missed out on by many people through the 3-years-ago debate, is that the article is on the PLACE.  Just like Victoria, British Columbia does not stop itself from talking about things outside the municipal boundaries of the City of Victoria, because the concept of "the place Victoria" includes many things that intersect with, and touch upon, the Capital Regional District, Oak Bay, and other things.  The place is seldom, if ever, delimited by municipal boundaries.  As another example, within Canada, there are many places where Indian Reserves fall within the normally-accepted definitions of a given place.  They are often very small "islands" that are not formally within the city/municipal boundaries, though any article that attempted to somehow pretend that they were not part of the history and story of that place would be foolish.  I believe that, for the encyclopedia to be useful, Halifax, Nova Scotia must be the main article on the place - the one that includes the primary history, transport, culture sections and so on.  It should not, simply be a disambiguation page for a bunch of municipal subdivisions.  I'm going to try to gather some people who agree (look at that vote up above - it's unanimous in favour of this idea, and yet it didn't quite happen.  Then, hopefully, we can make it happen. AshleyMorton (talk) 23:09, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Round Two 

message: Halifax, Nova Scotia really should not link to a disambiguation page, if only because this more specific references just equates to where Halifax links. To me, the Halifax, Nova Scotia page should contain what is started on Halifax (former city). Halifax, Nova Scotia should not link to Halifax Regional Municipality, as that page encorporates other cities beyond Halifax if I'm reading the comments correctly. The fact that the city formally ceased to be a seperate entity is not relevant; the city still exists, just not as a "City" entity. And also, "former city" to me means that it's gone (like Troy is a former city in what is now present-day Turkey). Just my 2 cents. - Hooperswim (talk) 20:50, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: And everyone has their comments, that's why there is no primary topic. By your own admission, Halifax, Nova Scotia still exists, so why would the title go to the former incorporation? I think that both the former and current are important, and the title can't go to one. 117Avenue (talk) 04:12, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Per your suggestion, I've attempted to write a primary topic article, as one should exist. - Hooperswim (talk) 17:13, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: That isn't what I suggested. Per WP:INCDAB, three or four entries isn't enough for a disambiguation page, if it can be merged into another. What I suggest exists at the Nova Scotia section in Halifax#Canada. 117Avenue (talk) 04:59, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I wasn't attempting to write a disambiguation, I was attempting to write the start of a primary topic page. But I give up: if even a proud Canadian such as yourself doesn't care enough about the city to fix this, then I, who am just trying to steer things to a consolidated, simple, make-sense, outcome, will not either. I will just use Halifax, since it links to the same place as Halifax, Nova Scotia. (What I learned from this: Halifax, Nova Scotia doesn't exist. It's an idea of a place/city, but it was apparently torn-down completely in 1996--because that's what the pages reflect.) - Hooperswim (talk) 15:20, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: If I "don't care enough about the city", funny, because it isn't a city; I intend "to fix this" wherever I see this error, I hope this shows respect for the Government of Nova Scotia. I hope you don't actually think "Halifax, Nova Scotia" doesn't exist, because it does, it can mean several places. Just because you hit a disambiguation page, while surfing Wikipedia, doesn't mean you were wrong, it just means the term applies to many things. A couple of other examples I know of is Fairview, Alberta, and Springfield, Wisconsin. 117Avenue (talk) 02:56, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  this page should not redirect to a sub-section of a disambiguation page 

message: I was just on Provinces and territories of Canada, and they have Halifax as the largest city of Nova Scotia. From the discussion here, it seems to me that Halifax is no longer a city, and therefore it should not be listed as the largest city for the province. Someone should fix the other page(s) that also make this mistake. - Hooperswim (talk) 17:15, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Done, but this probably isn't the page to bring that up. 117Avenue (talk) 05:22, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Ahh, so now a non-city is listed in the city category: sounds good. - Hooperswim (talk) 15:22, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  change need on Canadian Provinces page 

message: After the edit warring on this page, I have protected it for a week and started a discussion at Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2013_January_16#Halifax.2C_Nova_Scotia.  The results of that discussion should be respected, and no further edit warring should take place.  ‑Scottywong| communicate _ 18:16, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit warring