Talk:Islamic culture

message: How about renaming this page Islamic culture. I've created a category Islamic culture, but this should not cause too much confusion. Thoughts ? MP   (talk) 18:29, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rename page ? 

message: This article is linked from the  template, should the template be added? Which is to say is this article "part of a series of articles on Islam"? -Kode 23:10, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Islam Template 

message: As-salamu alaikum
Please do not utilize the minority view as if it were mainstream and majority, as has been done with mut'ah. This is outlawed by the final prophet to humanity during his lifetime. No one practiced it after that until people, as they usually do, started following their nafs and desires.
Thank you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.41.109.85 (talk) 03:59, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  There is only one form of Islamic Marriage 

message: As per previous suggestions on the talk page, we should move this to Islamic culture. I believe that is more common in secular academia anyway. --Enzuru 18:37, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Movin' on up! 

message: Tajmahal has nothing to do with Islam. Remove it. 
Assalam Alaykom, I actually disagree with putting a picture of Taj Mahal as a lead picture to the page. I would rather see a picture of Al Kaaba or the prophet mosque in medina.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.227.40.9 (talk) 08:51, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: India is a largely Hindu nation, but has the worlds 3rd largest Muslim population after Indonesia and Pakistan. As for the Taj Mahal - It is a huge symbol of Islamic culture all over the world, and as for the confusion of cultures- India is a secular country meaning no religion or culture dominates it. --∗∗Farah Desai Khan∗∗ (talk) 22:20, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

text: It would be better to add your comments and discuss this issue here. --∗∗Farah Desai Khan∗∗ (talk) 22:39, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Taj Mahal Picture 

message: This article has undergone biased and dangerous influences.
Children who are not familiar with Islam will read this garbage and believe it.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.153.76.87 (talk) 19:33, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  I'm mad 

message: First of all, as a Muslim I am going to say that I think this article is a good addition to wikipedia, or rather, has the potential to be a good article. Islam - like any religion - has inspired great works of art, calligraphy, music, literature and architecture. One need only look at world renowned wonders like the Taj Mahal, the Burj al-Arab, the Thousand and One Nights, or the qawwali music of the late Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan.
However, I am also going to say that I have some concerns about this article. First of all, what constitutes 'Islamic art' from 'non-Islamic' or 'pre-Islamic' art? While there are some things that absolutely represent Islamic art - such as Qur'anic calligraphy, Masjid and Sufi music - other things are more dubious. Should we include all works of art, music, film and literature created by a Muslim artist or within a predominantly Muslim country? Is something born of Turkish, Persian, Arabic, Sahelian or South Asian culture automatically assumed to be "Muslim"?
The problem I have is that cultural and even secular works of art probably shouldn't be included in here, and yet at the same time, its arguable as to what exactly IS non-Islamic in many countries. If we are to include, say, classical Arabic music then what would exclude the courtly traditions West Africa or the Swahili Coast?
Which brings me to the other point... the claim made later in the article that sub-Saharan Africa and Southeast Asia had 'less impact' on the rest of the Islamic world. That is absolutely untrue. Indonesia represents the world's largest Muslim population, and Arabic, Persian and Indian culture has contributed elements to Malay and Indonesian culture. The same with sub-Saharan Africa. Many of the Sufi brotherhoods in West Africa have North African origins, while East African taarab music even SOUNDS Arabic and Indian!
I think that this article needs to be cleaned up and broadened to include various elements of Islamic influence, but at the same time I also think that contibutors need to be cautious not to assume any bias. In other words, this shouldn't read like an article about the culture of the Middle East or the culture of South Asia.
Just my two cents on the issue. What do other people think?
- ZakariyaAliSher (talk) 12:35, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I also think like you that there's a confusion in this article between Islamic culture and culture from Muslim-majority countries. So according to you, Yağlı güreş and Kurash are Islamic martial arts?--Chrono1084 (talk) 14:22, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Needs Clarification 

message: Having become familiar with Hodgson and Lewis, I began to notice the same issues on WP identified and addressed with the creation of this article in 2006.  I have posted a project proposal for Islamic civilization.  I found this page yesterday after I noticed Western civilization redirects to Western culture.  
I wish to address a gap in the organization of Islamic material on Wikipedia, and by doing so, address an underlying misconception about Islam. Islamic civilization has traditionally been multiracial and multicultural; in fact, Islamic civilization has traditionally included large numbers of peoples who were not Muslims. To speak of things Islamic can be misleading in certain contexts.
Please see the comments of the original author above.  This is about improving our coverage of the subject matter in question: the Islamicate, as Hodgson would say. How we organize and present the material can be as important as the content, in terms of the accuracy of our depictions. Aquib (talk) 11:36, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Islamic civilization 

message: I felt article Islamic_literature is in bit of neglect so I added my note on talk page there, requesting to take note of Talk:Islamic_literature#Article_review. If possible requesting copy edit support. Suggestions for suitable reference sources at  Talk:Islamic_literature is also welcome. 
Posting message here too for neutrality sake
Thanks and greetings
Bookku (talk) 08:10, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Requesting wider attention

message: Greetings,
This is basically continuation of first round of discussion which took place previously @ Talk:Islamic literature and Wikipedia:Village_pump_(miscellaneous) 
 Present Wikipedia tendency 
An average tendency on Wikipedia seems to be of transforming word Muslim into Islam or Islamic wherever possible without visiting nuanced aspects. As a small example title Islamic feminism is nuanced and correct since it specifically refers to theory of Islam. But is it correct to redirect title Muslim women to Women in Islam those who are not exposed to nuances might think so. Some might take refuge to fallacy of Appeal to popularity, but nuanced view suggests otherwise. Pl. do read on below given copy pasted discussion from Talk:Islamic literature  
 Here comes concept of normative. 
* Quick google search of term Normative gives definition as "...establishing, relating to, or deriving from a standard or norm, especially of behaviour...."
Is present lack of nuanced approach, risks throwing in  and enforcing a sided normative. All Islamic art can be called Muslim art, but whether all Muslim art can be called Islamic art. For example recently one Saira Khan recently openly declared of not being practicing Muslim, and still we can not list her in List of former Muslims so formally remains a Muslim at the most one can categories them in Cultural Muslim; take one more point, there can be former Muslim who reverts to Islam  is it easy to classify their art Muslim or Islamic ? Or take example of M.F. Husain many of his drawings are of living things so whether it is safe to classify his art Muslim or Islamic ?
:File:Khamseh Nizami 001.jpg is included in article Islamic Art how far it can be called Islamic Art or is it safer to call it Muslim art?
Those Wikipedians who do have lesser familiarity with Muslims or Islam usually tend to take position I/We don't have understanding on the topic, pl. go over to WP talk:WikiProject Islam, even when topic is critical of Islam that is categorized Islamic project pl. go over to WP talk:WikiProject Islam. Doesn't it risks throwing in  and enforcing a sided normative?
Scholarship highlighting this issue 
:::1) According to  Muslim is purely someone who practices Islam and Islamic is anything influenced by Islam or produced by Muslims.
:::2.1) According to M.M. Knight, when one does not speak for real Islam (i.e.'an abstracted ideal' that floats above, Muslim, human cultures but speaks for 'lived traditions') it is preferable to use the term Muslim instead of the term Islam or Islamic. 
:::2.2) M.M. Knight further says,terms 'Islam/ Islamic' imposes claim of normativity, which is distinct with lived experiences hence need not be conflated. (My emphasis)
 Question of Grammar 
One copyeditor user  points out his difficulties @ Talk:Islamic literature, he says:
:::...According to  Muslim is purely someone who practices Islam and Islamic is anything influenced by Islam or produced by Muslims. So I’ve done some of the (requested via women’s rights article) copyediting on that basis. Please correct my ignorances with sources if wrong. Thanks!... 
Similar points of grammar have been discussed @ Wikipedia:Village_pump_(miscellaneous) similar to  their point is architecture,  music,  art,  thought are not humans so saying Muslim architecture, Muslim music, Muslim art, Muslim thought, should be avoided. 
Since personally I am more concerned with normative I am okay with Muslim architecture, Muslim music, Muslim art, Muslim thought since those are more inclusive terms in spite issues of grammar inaccuracies, but terms are understandable to human mind; my human brain can  very well understand those terms as 'architecture/ music/  art/  thought created by Muslims.'
Nuanced differences and other Wikipedia articles
Please see below given table.
List of articles With Word Muslim or Islam in title
	Muslim             	Islam             	Comment
	Muslim dietary laws	                  	This needs to be Islamic dietary laws ?
	                   	Apostasy in Islam 	Article Former Muslim of Ex Muslim needs to exist separately because title Apostasy in Islam has Islamic normative that atheists don't share?
	                   	Islamic culture   	Needs to be Muslim culture?
	                   	Islamic literature	Needs to be Muslim literature?
	                   	
Islamic Golden Age	Needs to be Muslim Golden Age ?
	                   	Women in Islam    	Need to be Muslim women?
	                   	Islamophobia      	Need to be Anti Muslim Sentiment?
::* Would term Muslim culture represent cultural diversity  among Muslim communities over time and places reflect better than monolithic representation in term "Islamic culture"?
::* Can we draw a parallel, In between Your point differentiating between "Women in Islam" and "Muslim women" and Apostasy in Islam and Former muslims being both valid, and have entirely different normative directions? 
I am very well aware of grammar related points of  &   maintained by them  and others  @ Wikipedia:Village_pump_(miscellaneous) and not too keen to break grammar related rules but want other readers also to be aware of issues involved for wider consultations. 
Bookku (talk) 11:26, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Difference between Muslim .... and Islamic .... ? 

message: Greetings,
Adequate and nuanced overview for even non– Muslim audience is expected out of the articles Muslims and Muslim world. Whether the articles are achieving that purpose adequately? Requesting and expecting proactive participation in providing inputs from non–Muslim audience too along with Muslim users.     
Since the article Muslim world is tagged various improvements it can not be submitted to formal review process still I feel the article deserves more inputs for content improvement. 
Requesting your visit to the articles 
* Muslims and 
* Muslim world 
:: and provide your inputs @ 
* Talk:Muslims/Archive 8#Requesting inputs and 
* Talk:Muslim world#Requesting inputs 
Thanks
 Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 06:42, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requesting inputs 

message: There are no such thing as Islamic culture.. it is the culture of people who happen to be Muslim . The belief that there Islamic culture is sth promoted by supporters of the Caliphate, a Muslim from Nigeria neither acts nor thinks like a Muslim from Malaysia 197.133.236.130 (talk) 17:06, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  I request adding a criticism section