Talk:Anarchism/Archive 37

message: I don't think that the line "most christian anarchists are vegan or vegetarian" should be included, certainly not without some sort of explanation. If veganism or vegetarianism is to be included, I wouldn't say that Christian Anarchists are any more likely to be vegan than other anarchists. Appletross 16:36, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, many anarchists are vegan/vegetarian regardless of being Christians. I think it may be more common amongst pacifist anarchists, and that overlaps somewhat with Christian anarchism, but it's a bit vague. Sarge Baldy 01:09, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Christan Anarchism 

message: I checked what Kropotkin says here and it is that mutual aid is natural to both animals and humans, rather than suggesting that there is an application of abstract principles. This is teh basis of the changes I have made here, Harrypotter 23:28, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Mutual Aid]]

message: Wikipedia:Images_and_media_for_deletion/2006_March_9 - lised :Image:Ac chart.png for deletion for POV, OR, and AB. -- infinity0 16:42, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  IFD 

message: suggests he has worked with Noam Chomsky on "Zapatista: A Big Noise Film DVD". Not sure if this means he's an anarchist, though. -- infinity0 21:54, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've heard Rage Against the Machine referred to as anarchist, but I wouldn't call them overall notable as a cultural aspect of anarchism. Also I'd kind of rather we avoided listing musicians here, since we already talk about anarchism and music later on. I think it's also best to only list people whose work is clearly influenced by anarchist beliefs, rather than just mentioning celebrities who happen to be anarchists. Sarge Baldy 22:12, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Is there a page for anarchist celebrities? If not, that might be a good page to start. The Ungovernable Force 04:29, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

text: It's not "too long" since it aims to be a comprehensive list. Sarge Baldy 21:54, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Probably, yes. Best if you can find a source showing it, but not necessary. At this point the list is rather "loose" (too loose, I'd say). Sarge Baldy 22:21, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Zach de la Rocha 

message: I removed these groups as they are not anarchists, even if they are anti-capitalist and anti-authoritarian.Harrypotter 11:43, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They have had a lot of influence on anarchism though, especially the situationists, so I think they should be put back in. The situationist page mentions anarchism quite a bit, so I think they especially should be mentioned. And heck, if we can put anarcho-capitalism in the page, we can definitely put the SI. The autonomist marxism page also mentions anarchists as being important in some areas, especially in the Autonomist movements (w/o the further Marxist distinction). Therefore I am readding them in, but will mention that they weren't explicitly anarchist. The Ungovernable Force 19:27, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  The influences should definitely be mentioned, but there should be no special section on Situationism. That movement was really more Marxist and ultra-leftist. Chuck0 22:26, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Both groups are libertarian socialists (of the Marxist school). They are  not anarchists, but close to anarchism. There is significant overlap in ideas (and Lenin called the council communists anarchists). They should be mentioned, particularly as the situationists have had a major impact in post-war anarchist thinking. I would say they have more right to be mentioned in an anarchist entry than "anarcho"-capitalism. BlackFlag 14:54, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Removal of [[Situationists]], [[autonomists]] etc

message: Infoshop just published a new article criticizing "anarcho-capitalism": An Anarchist critique of Anarcho-Statism
Chuck0 22:01, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Anarcho is Iain McKay, right? Cool! -- infinity0 22:08, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't reveal the person behind this pseudonymn, but "Anarcho" is a respected anarchist under their real name. Chuck0 22:27, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Who is Iain McKay, that's not a misspelling of the guy from Minor Threat/Fugazi right? And it's not like the new article will matter, people will just say "oh, it's from social anarchists, of course they say anarchism can't be capitalist". It won't change a thing. Thanks anyway though. The Ungovernable Force 23:47, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Main contributor to Anarchist FAQ. -- infinity0 23:54, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: thanks. The Ungovernable Force 00:24, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

text: You think someone'd hit on the most obvious point eventually. Government and state aren't the same thing. Government essentially means the administrative body of an organization, regardless of whether that organization is a state, a corporation, or whatever. The typical definition of anarchism as opposing "all forms of government" makes it clear that it's not just talking about the state, but about creation and enforcement of rules in general, which all anarcho-capitalists believe in. They want to kill the state but leave the rules, the government, intact. Anarcho-capitalists seem to treat the terms state and government as the same thing, and so take the definition of anarchism as given by most sources to mean an opposition to the state. But they're very clearly wrong. Most definitions of government don't even mention the word "state" in passing. Sarge Baldy 00:23, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: By that argument, anarcho-syndicalism is an oxymoron. Likewise autonomism. Check autonomy.Harrypotter 21:40, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah.. I suppose I have some issues with anarcho-syndicalism, even if I consider it well-intentioned. But to be honest, I consider the typical dictionary definition of anarchism a little bland and imprecise. I just find it interesting the way that anarcho-capitalists bend it around. Sarge Baldy 23:22, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: New criticism

message: - 27 to 8? Could someone verify this please? -- infinity0 17:12, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I did read in a book called The Anarchists that Proudhon was sexist and anti-semetic, so it wouldn't surprise me. I don't have a cite for that actual essay though. The Ungovernable Force 17:34, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  RfC this diff 

message: I just created this page and it needs expansion and work, see the talk page. Also, we should maybe incorperate some info from it into this page too. The Ungovernable Force 08:38, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, so is anyone going to help this page out? It's kinda sub-par in my opinion and could do with some major expansion. Please....somebody....anybody.... The Ungovernable Force 06:54, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Anarchism and animal rights]]

message: I came across these:
*http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Anarcho-capitalism&curid=1024&diff=45154032&oldid=45130949
He is referring to these:
*http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Requests_for_deletion#Wikitopia
*http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Wikibooks:Votes_for_deletion#Wikitopia
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Wikitopia
Any thoughts? I just thought some of you may be interested. -- infinity0 22:46, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anarcho-capitalist wikitopia