Talk:Ravenloft (module)

message: A Neverwinter Nights version of module http://nwn.bioware.com/players/modprofile_spires.html.
Have put this link here as a placeholder for latter incorporation into the article. - Waza 23:12, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Now above has been included in article - Waza 21:38, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Neverwinter Nights module

message: Possibly encounter format derived from "Delve format" as per http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20060317a Need to look for a source to confirm this. - Waza 03:26, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Have searched but not found a source confirming this. If someone finds one latter it can be added to the article. - Waza 00:05, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Encounter format for Expedition

message: Some prose glitches and minor issues, but passable. No major issues with references. A criticism section may help, but overall fine. — Deckiller 12:52, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: GApassed

message: As per the Requested Pictures request, I've uploaded :Image:House of Strahd lr.JPG, and :Image:Ravenloft Silver lr.JPG‎. --Maelwys 15:11, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uploaded images 

message: I've undone the article split for the following reasons:
*Splitting one of the sequel modules out into its own article without doing the same for the other modules could be considered, in this case, a form of recentism.
*Having information on all of the sequel articles in Ravenloft (D&D module) helped it to become a Good Article, and may assist it in its journey to Featured.
*The new Expedition page contained almost identical content to the section on it in this one, meaning that it was a stub. WikiProject Dungeons & Dragons does not need any more stubs unless they truly deserve their own article.
-Drilnoth (talk) 13:23, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Expedition to Castle Ravenloft 

message: This article if the WikiProject Dungeons & Dragons weekly article focus, with the goal being to get it a few steps closer to FA status. -Drilnoth (talk) 16:10, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Should we merge in Ravenloft II: The House on Gryphon Hill? -Drilnoth (talk) 16:11, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Excellent idea; I'll spread the word around to people who have worked on this article. BOZ (talk) 04:00, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Merged. -Drilnoth (talk) 17:00, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll just say right now, that the page flow is currently terrible due to the placement of various images. I could even see it failing a GA re-review over that, it's so bad. :o  BOZ (talk) 17:03, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, I'll see what can be done. -Drilnoth (talk) 17:11, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

text: How's that? -Drilnoth (talk) 19:00, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Much better. :) BOZ (talk) 21:01, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added more refs and replaced the silver anniversary image with a picture of the other version of the anniversary edition; I don't think that the change has made its way to the article yet, but it should soon. -Drilnoth (talk) 21:16, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

text: The silver anniversary cover art change has now taken effect in the article. -Drilnoth (talk) 03:01, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  November 16-22 Weekly Focus 

message: Many improvements have been made to this article since it became GA-class (Diff), and I think that it probably qualifies for A-class. Meeting the A-class criteria requires the support of at least two uninvolved editors; what do you all think? -Drilnoth (talk) 13:42, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Let's give it a shot. :) BOZ (talk) 15:37, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

text: Fantastic. Love to see it. Web Warlock (talk) 15:43, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Two agreements: Assessment is now A-class. What do you think needs to be done before we go for FA-class? -Drilnoth (talk) 15:45, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I did put it in for a peer review... ;) Let's see how that goes and proceed on from there? BOZ (talk) 15:53, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds good. I've added it to the Peer Review section of the announcements (so far that format seems to be doing good in brining attention to articles!) -Drilnoth (talk) 16:36, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right, it does. Just don't overload it so people can focus on a few things at a time. BOZ (talk) 16:43, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I know; I think that the level of announcements we have right now is good, although we could probably handle a couple more. -Drilnoth (talk) 16:45, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

text: I think that most of those points have already been dealt with, except maybe the lead section could be a little longer. -Drilnoth (talk) 13:40, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, I'm personally not expecting more than what we got on the semi-automated review, so I'm going to look at that and kick a little work into it. BOZ (talk) 18:10, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think I've gotten all that I'm going to get out of that review; some of it was helpful, some of it not applicable. As time permits, I'm going to go through all of the listed sources that I can access and see what I can correct or expand upon. After that, I don't know how much more I can do for the article without more input, so you can go ahead and nominate it. :) You might want to see what you can do for source-thin areas, particularly the novels spin-off section. BOZ (talk) 19:43, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Great improvements there BOZ! I'll take a look at the fiction section today or tomorrow and put it up for FA review as soon as the Peer Review is archived. -Drilnoth (talk) 20:47, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

text: I've actually removed the novel spin-off section because, after looking for sources, I couldn't find any that could be considered reliable. -Drilnoth (talk) 21:18, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Keep an eye on this thread for any help people there might have to offer. :) BOZ (talk) 19:38, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Great idea. Thanks! -Drilnoth (talk) 20:10, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

text: Someone has a White Dwarf issue offering to help with information and/or references form it in that thread. shadzar-talk 08:08, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep, I noticed that (IIRC, he's User:Ant Brooks here) - what do we need again? :) BOZ (talk) 13:16, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've asked him if he can add more detail about the review to the article. -Drilnoth (talk) 14:18, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, geez... :( Well, we can always work on it more and then try again another time! BOZ (talk) 03:50, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep. I think that part of the problem here was that so much work still needed to be done when it was nominated that people didn't want to vote for or against its promotion. Maybe in a few weeks or 1-2 months we can finish any remaining cleanup issues and re-nominate it, without as much discussion about the use of images, references, external links, etc. -Drilnoth (talk) 12:21, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah - we've got enough going on now to keep us busy until after New Years. :) BOZ (talk) 15:45, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: November 19th, 2008 Class Reassessment

message: The article currently includes "Strahd is notable for his then-innovative combination of monster and character, having the abilities of both vampires and magic-users.[8] In this release he is a level 10 magic-user, whereas the first edition rules only allowed selected humanoid races to acquire character classes.[7]"
While I realize WP gives great deference to sourced material, these two sentences at best should be heavily qualified, and at worst are flat-out false.  The second sentence is clearly false, as 1st ed AD&D explicitly allows vampires to have m-u levels -- see DMG 179, footnote to Monster Table X (it is also implied in the next-to-last paragraph of the 1st ed MM entry on the vampire).  Also, contrary to the first sentence, module Q1 includes Vlad Tolenkov, a 15th level magic-user vampire with a complete stat write-up.  Maybe this was notable to the authors of the cited sources, but surely Wikipedia can improve on those sources.  I don't have a suggestion for how to fix this (except the obvious route of simply cutting those sentences), but something should be done.  Truly Trivial (talk) 07:58, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Both of those sentences use very reliable sources for referencing, and module Q1 came out three years after Ravenloft, so the design of the vampire magic-user may have been innovative when I6 was released, but not Q1. I'll take a look at my 1e DMG and see how all of the information should be reorganized or cut; thanks for pointing that out! -Drilnoth (talk) 14:12, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You have that backwards.  Q1 came out in 1980, Ravenloft came out in 1983. Strahd is notable for treating the main antagonist as a character, rather than a monster.  Vlad Tolenkov was given MM style "monster" stats while Strahd's write-up was more like a "character". Web Warlock (talk) 16:05, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

text: It is not the fact that he had MU levels that was innovative, but how he was supposed to be played that was. Web Warlock (talk) 16:07, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah... the Wiki article on Q1 says 1986 (that's the only source I looked at). -Drilnoth (talk) 18:57, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Very insightful, gentlemen. He was treated as a real adversary than just "something to kill". Q1 Queen of the Demonweb Pits came out in 1980; the Q1-7 Queen of the Spiders compliation came out in 1986. BOZ (talk) 20:30, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: D'oh! My bad. -Drilnoth (talk) 22:13, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vampire with m-u level -- innovative? 

message: On the 3rd paragraph of the Original edition section. If citation doesn't specifically say "kill" as distinct from "defeat" within the context of the citation (I don't have source of citation) maybe it will be best to change kill with defeat.--LexCorp (talk) 00:10, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for pointing that out. I added the ref, although I don't have the book right now, and I'm fairly sure that it said "kill," although I'm not positive. -Drilnoth (talk) 00:36, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kill to Defeat 

message: The module was reviewed in the following magazines (although it looks like some of these are listed already):
Dragon #205 (1994), 
Dragon #81 (1984), 
Space Gamer V1, #72 (1985), 
White Dwarf #55 (1984), 
White Wolf #42 (1994) 71.194.32.252 (talk) 07:20, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reviews 

message: I removed this from the article as OR made from observing the game and drawing conclusions from its content: " While the I6 Ravenloft module is not explicitly mentioned in any of the Ravenloft campaign setting materials, the fictional timeline given in these materials suggests that the events depicted in the module would have played out a couple hundred years prior to the events depicted in the campaign settings.The fictional timeline given in Bruce Nesmith's Realm of Terror (page 9) includes two dates that appear to refer to dates given in the original module. A date of 470 is given for the agreement between characters Strahd and Madam Eva, and the date of 528 lists the event "Powerful heroes assault Castle Ravenloft and perish" which would correspond with the original module's depiction of Madam Eva as an "old woman." (page 11)."
===Notes===
I do not believe we can include anything here that sources merely suggest. Cheers! Scapler (talk) 04:46, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  OR Removed 

message: I do not believe we can include anything here that sources merely suggest. Cheers! Scapler (talk) 04:46, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Notes

message: Would there be any opposition to my cleanup up the page's style by using a citation format similar to the one used in the main Dungeons & Dragons article, rather than having the inline numbers? –Drilnoth (T • C • L) 17:13, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I was just going to suggest this. Please do. Scartol • Tok 18:19, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page numbers 

message: This looks really solid, though I must defer to others on how comprehensive it is. For a module that's been so important it seems like there are only a few sources consulted. But if that's all there is, then that's all there is. 
I recommend getting  to take a quick look before re-nominating it to FAC — assuming she has time (which she might not). She's probably the most thorough reviewer on Wikipedia at the moment.
* I'd suggest making the first link like this: adventure module, rather than having a separate link to the list of modules. (It's best to avoid "bumping links" in general.)
* I wonder if we should have a very brief (2-3 sentences) history of D&D's rules evolution, so that neophyte readers will understand the difference between D&D and AD&D.
* I recommend ending the last sentence of the first paragraph with "...as a 32-page book with maps of important game locations." Then we should have a paragraph which describes the setting, characters, and plot of the adventure. (Sort of like how articles about novels give a plot summary.)
* The adventure was play-tested every Halloween for five years... By whom?
Good luck with this! Scartol • Tok 18:19, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the copyedit and the comments. There are surprisingly few good, reliable sources for D&D-related topics online... most are print, especially for the older books, so they're harder to add. –Drilnoth (T • C • L) 18:23, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: On my browser, the lead appears underneath the infobox, instead of to the left. 204.153.84.10 (talk) 19:24, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That would be a bug with the div tags... are you using Internet Explorer? Anyway, I'll try to fix it; thanks for mentioning it. –Drilnoth (T • C • L) 19:56, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep, IE; much better now! 204.153.84.10 (talk) 22:14, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Great! Thanks for letting us know. –Drilnoth (T • C • L) 01:50, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comments from Scartol 

message: :We may want some of this later. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 05:36, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stuff removed from article 

message: Can't find daystar nexus, but maybe internet archive has it. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 19:58, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds like we got us a challenge! I did some searching and found columns for In Search of the Unknown, Danger at Dunwater, Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh, The Lost City, Ghost Tower of Inverness, and White Plume Mountain. They must have done some url-shuffling or something... I note that Tomb of Horrors is linked to from our article, but that is gone now! Also we have a link that is supposed to go to Steading of the Hill Giant Chief, but that now points to In Search of the Unknown. So we have two MIA columns... and that leaves two unknowns, so it's certainly possible that one of those two was Ravenloft. Anyone better at searching than I care to look around and see? :) BOZ (talk) 11:55, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

text: Oh, duh, I needed to look a little closer - Against the Giants is in with the Danger at Dunwater one, so that's one less MIA.  I'll fix the link on that article. BOZ (talk) 17:31, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

text: Also, Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan is in with "Sinister Secret". :) BOZ (talk) 17:35, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks like Ravenloft was not one of these. 204.153.84.10 (talk) 22:09, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

text: "No wonder the original module not only fetched high prices at auctions but was revised for 2nd edition AD&D (unwisely hidden under the title RM4 House of Strahd) by one of TSR’s finest designers, Bruce Nesmith, creator with Andria Hayday of the Ravenloft campaign setting. Nor that another version (with the original name and designator now restored) was released in 1999 as part of TSR’s Silver Anniversary series." May be better than current ref 19. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 05:20, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hardcover?  Why would it be adapted for 2nd edition in 1999?  Was that the current edition? - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 05:23, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

text:  Not reliable, but at least it did exist. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 05:24, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

text: Now I see. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 05:27, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible refs 

message: Should the paragraph
:The chief antagonist, Count Strahd, has become one of the most infamous and well-known villains in the Dungeons & Dragons game.[20] and has appeared in various novels and rulebooks since his debut in Ravenloft.[26] Strahd's character revolutionized Dungeons & Dragons by introducing a combination monster-character, with the abilities of a vampire and a magic-user.[10] This design enables him to combine his own powers with the surrounding environment, making him a difficult opponent to defeat.[5]
Go in Publication history or Reception? - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 04:23, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Tough call. I'd say if all of that is sourced to indepdendent secondary sources, put it in reception. 67.175.176.178 (talk) 05:28, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point.  It's not independent.  Maybe I'll attribute each statement and put it in Pub hist. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 05:37, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Correct section 

message: Need to check WD87 quote, since it isn't perfect grammar. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 02:38, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I checked it; it's verbatim. BOZ (talk) 02:56, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks.  I'd have to fail that review if it was on wiki. ;-) - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 03:11, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Note of ref 

message: Wizards of the coast have released a stand alone game based on this module. See: http://wizards.com/dnd/Product.aspx?x=dnd/products/dndacc/207790000 Gill smoke (talk) 12:26, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, thanks!  That should be added. 24.148.0.83 (talk) 12:31, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, I'll take care of that. :) BOZ (talk) 04:10, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Castle Ravenloft game

message: Is there any particular reason why there's no mention of the third-party licensed version of Ravenloft produced for D&D 3.0/3.5 by the Sword & Sorcery imprint from White Wolf?MythicFox (talk) 20:56, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: If you've got a source that talks about it, then I figure that would be a worthy add. Maybe check the main Ravenloft page? 108.69.80.49 (talk) 21:31, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, y'know what? I'm an idiot. I'd stepped away from the computer or something after loading up the article, got distracted, and forgot that there was a separate article for Ravenloft as a whole and that this was just for the original module. I retract my question.MythicFox (talk) 17:47, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: No worries. :) 108.69.80.49 (talk) 18:02, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I added a sentence about the adventure game that uses the campaign setting, but I see that it's already covered in Ravenloft, so I'll remove it. Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk) 18:31, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  The 3.0/3.5 Sword and Sorcery edition 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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