Talk:Chen Guangcheng

message: three is an update. i'm unfamilar with how to edit the article in the correct format and i'm posting this between classes now. he was sentanced to 4 years and 3 months in prison.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5281440.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6104868.stm
:Updated, thanks. --Vsion 21:27, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Update request

message: After reviewing the Google Translation of the Chinese wikipedia article, there doesn't appear to be much of substance that we don't already have in this one. I'd suggest simply adding remaining missing information manually instead of leaving this tag atop it, unless the editor would like to be more specific about her/his concerns.
Khazar2 (talk) 05:14, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Expand from Chinese wiki 

message: Some news sources have been calling Guangcheng a Pro-life activist. Is this true? Thismightbezach (talk) 22:44, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Could you give an example of what you're looking at? To the best of my limited knowledge, Chen only fought against forced abortion. It seems misleading to call him "pro-life" if that's the basis. For comparison, many women's rights groups also oppose forced abortion, but support abortion rights generally and identify as "pro-choice". If news sources are referring to him this way, I'm of course fine with it appearing in the article in some way; I just haven't encountered it personally in the sources I've looked at. Khazar2 (talk) 23:17, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It appears that most of the sources that refer to him as "pro-life" are American Christian groups. I don't think that Chen would frame his activism in the same terms. Homunculus (duihua) 00:28, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

text: He is definitely not a "pro-life" activist in our understanding of the term. Pro-life groups are exploiting his cause to add a hero to their ranks. He is not against abortions on religious or high-moral grounds, but against the system that enforces the one-child policy. It is a very different story. Calling Chen "pro-life" activist is inaccurate and significantly narrows his cause. Cosainsé (talk) 22:24, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pro-life activist? 

message: I looked around a bit on the web after the News said he had multiple children. However I could find nothing beyond that several articles use the phrase "his children". Given the stuff out there about chinese culture and the one child policy I think if he has multiple children their ages and whether they are male or female might be relevant. Especially given that he is asking to goto USA. It could also explain some of his stance against the one child policy. John5Russell3Finley (talk) 23:02, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Good suggestion. My understanding is that Chen has a 6-yr-old daughter (who we do mention) living with him and his wife and a slightly older son living with another relative. I can't give you a source for that off the top of my head, though. If I find one I'll add it. Khazar2 (talk) 23:37, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: i fixed up some things in the first paragraph but i sometimes have the feeling that the article was a bit grovelling with lots of adjectives meant to conjure sympathy. i tried to improve this somewhat please anyone let me know what you think.Happy monsoon day (talk) 21:39, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

text: Looks like the question was answered. Can someone archive this question? Or should it be erased?Cosainsé (talk) 02:10, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Definitely not erased. And it doesn't seem like this page has gotten so long that we really need to start archiving, though I suppose you can if you want. -- Khazar2 (talk) 02:13, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Perhaps a few personal details ? 

message: i made some recent edits to try to improve the page and make it more neutral as i understand the policy exhorts editors to be. please see here for example words such as 'experience' 'wrong' 'regardless' 'undue' and so forth seemed to be implicitly normative on the side of chen's activism which we as objective writers should not do so i attempted to clarify these points with more precise language if there are any errors please let me know. Happy monsoon day (talk) 21:44, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: this case has been in the media a lot recently and china is very important so the information should be absolutely accurate and careful. however, such words as 'brutal' should be avoided shouldn't they?? furthermore the article says Chinese national regulations prohibit such brutal measures. but there is no citation provided and the word 'brutal' of obvious biased. Happy monsoon day (talk) 22:29, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with about 70% of your fixes (especially that "brutal" should definitely not have been in the article). However, a few things you've removed (like the detail that Christian Bale was punched) are clearly sourced in the article, and to the best of my knowledge, not disputed by other reliable sources. In those cases, I've restored the relevant details. Khazar2 (talk) 23:25, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: ok thank you. i wondered whether 'punch' was not neutral and i changed it to physical violence or something. same with others. it seems that as long as the source says it or something like it its fine. Happy monsoon day (talk) 02:34, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

text: to me this now reads like someone on the side of the Chinese government has "sanitized" it.  The "alleged" violence and forced abortions etc. makes it seem like maybe Guangcheng was just making this stuff up.  These are documented human rights abuses that he was fighting against.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.244.9.171 (talk) 17:24, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: If the assaults are documented, we can change the wording, but a source will need to be provided per WP:V. Most sources tend to say "Chen says that..." or "Chen's family states that..." which isn't quite enough to present it as fact; we need the source itself to say it. -- Khazar2 (talk) 17:36, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with the unsigned comment above, the word "alleged" also caught my eye. I am going to remove it from the first paragraph.Cosainsé (talk) 22:29, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  neutrality issue in language 

message: bale is a hollywood actor. he knows a thing or two about image and public relations. he attempted to visit chenguangcheng //with CNN reporters in toe// right after being criticized for shooting a chinese propaganda movie with i believe zhang yimou. i think this happenstance of events might want to be briefly mentioned, lest the article leave our crucial background. any ideas? 22:54, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: My understanding is that to make this connection ourselves would be a violation of WP:SYNTH. It might be worth a one sentence mention if you can find it in a Chinese government official statement (or perhaps state media), but since it's not commonly mentioned in stories about the incident, it might also be WP:UNDUE to include it here. Khazar2 (talk) 23:29, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: quite right. i thought sources would be plentiful but well see. Happy monsoon day (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 02:11, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  christian bale 

message: Hi! About:
*"Chinese Activist Chen Guangcheng Leaves For U.S." Associated Press. May 19, 2012.
It says that Chen Guangcheng boarded United flight 88 to Newark Airport.
Is this level of detail too much for the article?
WhisperToMe (talk) 02:12, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, not a bad thought, but I'd say it's probably more than needed. =) Khazar2 (talk) 02:20, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

text: A general comment:  I applaud the editors involved in this page for trying to have it be a solid source of information throughout a fast-evolving saga. However, with the benefit of a bit of hindsight,  it will likely be necessary to revise the sections on Chen's escape and the embassy negotiations with an eye towards reducing WP:Recentism. Homunculus (duihua) 05:40, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Definitely. I already had a go at rewriting the escape section into a more coherent whole a few days back. This section will probably still be the largest in the article--I can't imagine Chen will manage to cause an international incident of this size again in his life--but once we get a more coherent, retrospective narrative from the newspapers, we can cut it back down again. Khazar2 (talk) 05:44, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

text: sorry kinda ran out of time but ill do this at some point the link is here if anyone else wants to jump on it http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/e046b9be-a550-11e1-9a94-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1w2JDDGNo ft is a good read. much better then us msmHappy monsoon day (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 00:44, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Commercial flight

message: recently that respected british publication (which i subscribe to here in the u.s.) did a brilliant exploration of how chen escaped and the diplomatic wrangling and so forth which went on behind the scenes. im going to start adding some material from that article and hopefully no one will object.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Happy monsoon day (talk • contribs) 23:45, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: sorry kinda ran out of time but ill do this at some point the link is here if anyone else wants to jump on it http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/e046b9be-a550-11e1-9a94-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1w2JDDGNo ft is a good read. much better then us msmHappy monsoon day (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 00:44, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: financial times

message: Chen wrote an editorial:
*English version: Chen, Guangcheng. "How China Flouts Its Laws." The New York Times. May 29, 2012.
*Chinese version: Chen, Guangcheng. "中国的不法." The New York Times. May 29, 2012.
WhisperToMe (talk) 04:15, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: do we need to be careful about quoting from this because chen is a primary source?Happy monsoon day (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 03:40, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

text: It should be treated as an op-ed per WP:RSOPINION. No problem using it so long as it is attributed to Chen. (Note too that op-eds are fact-checked just as news articles are, but opinions are still just opinions). Homunculus (duihua) 04:22, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: ok good seems like theres a rule for everything around here.Happy monsoon day (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 16:45, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, including one imploring users to ignore all rules.  Do you know you can sign your posts by typing four tildes? Homunculus (duihua) 17:26, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Editorial

message: The article's soruces are a little heavily news-based - I've popped over to Google Books to pull out the following in case the come in useful. 
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=vOYj6TO9I2IC&pg=PA389&dq=Chen+Guangcheng&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Z9zmT-atD4XO8QPO4czDCg&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=Chen%20Guangcheng&f=false
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=LK9EbyPGBm0C&pg=PA105&dq=Chen+Guangcheng+taxes&hl=en&sa=X&ei=e93mT7bPBMP18QPpprWnCg&ved=0CEMQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Chen%20Guangcheng%20taxes&f=false
and… 
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=d7EuvEl5loQC&pg=PA163&dq=%22Chen+Guangcheng%22+blind&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0d3mT7bpJaag0QXNyZ2DCQ&ved=0CGgQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=%22Chen%20Guangcheng%22%20blind&f=false 
Back soon.
Fayedizard (talk) 09:30, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Books... 

message: Wall Street journal has date of escape as 22nd... , but BBC has 20th...  - can we reconcile these? I'm presuming the problem is that it took several days to *actually* escape...Fayedizard (talk) 20:04, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Good question.  I'm double-checking more sources, and it seems that most say he escaped from his home on the 22nd, and thereafter spent many hours struggling on his own before meeting up with other activists who took him to Beijing.  Homunculus (duihua) 21:38, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Date of escape 

message: * Yu, Verna. "Friends fear right-wing connections will hit Chen Guangcheng's credibility." South China Morning Post. Wednesday 19 June 2013. -- Print version used the title "Right-wingers 'likely to hurt blind activist'"
WhisperToMe (talk) 00:27, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I read somewhere recently that was torn between partisan interest groups in the U.S. that were hoping he would align exclusively with their causes. It's something to keep an eye on (in addition to the other events that have been in the news around his departure from NYU). Homunculus (duihua) 02:01, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The South China Morning Post has been covering the Chen-NYU stuff quite well. Want me to post additional story links? WhisperToMe (talk) 04:27, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  New sources 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150227231231/http://www.genevasummit.org/program/6/2014 to http://www.genevasummit.org/program/6/2014
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Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 03:28, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified