Talk:Classical dressage

message: Removed POV comments about Anky, this article is about classical dressage, not modern dressage, and when it comes to Anky's training methiods, expecially rollkur, this is a war we just don't want to start in this particular article, it can be dealt with elsewhere, IMHO. Montanabw 17:06, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Watch POV

message: The Dressage page is much more detailed and informative, more or less with similar contents. I think that merging the content of this page to Dressage page, and changing this page into a Redirect, could be a good idea. --Alex_brollo Talk|Contrib 14:09, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe, but let's look at the page history.  Someone cared enough to break out the two.  Let's be sure we understand what the original dispute was, perhaps the other article has been edited since to remove whatever the initial problem happened to be...? Montanabw(talk) 16:58, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, I didn't consider at all the page history. I'll take a llook too to talk page of Dressage. Nevertheless, I think better to wait for some other opinions, before deleting the Merger tag.Alex_brollo Talk|Contrib 20:52, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

text: I encourage anyone who wants to wikify this article more to do so.  Another idea might be to break the Dressage article into "Classical" and "Competitive" sections...?  or maybe create a "Competitive Dressage" article and make the current article sort of a generic overview of the basics??  Just thoughts. Montanabw(talk) 03:13, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal 

message: This page has been selected as a "test page" for AND Wikipedia project. AND (Art of Natural Dressage) is a small web community, interested into not-competitive dressage and Haute Ecole; its principles are somehow similar to NHE ones (see their forum ).
The AND Wikipedia project aims to discuss and edit some relevant wiki articles into their web forum, and to post into wiki the final result. I'm the "wiki expert" (more or less) there.
An anonymous user posted here some time ago this text:
"Nowadays another form of Classical Dressage appears: The Art of Natural Dressage(AND), the art which up holds all the noble causes of the Classical Dressage Art and The Old Masters but without any form of force, cruelty, punishment and dominance. Thus without bits, spurs and even without bridle for a more advanced level."
Such a newbye edit doesn't follows many of wiki rules, and its deletion is right. Nevertheless, the meaning of such an update is very interesting in my opinion; a mention of the work of some groups of rides and trainers who are trying to obtain Haute Ecole results with new, R+ methods (NHE, AND) deserves a mention and the refusal of competition is an important point that they have in common with Classical Dressage and Haute Ecole, and a deep difference with Competitive Dressage, mainly covered into Dressage article. Obviously a mention to AND only could seem self-promotional: some search for a more comprehensive list of such groups is mandatory.--Alex_brollo Talk|Contrib 09:56, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: IMHO "Natural" dressage is a silly term, ALL Dressage is supposed to be "natural" and without cruelty, that is inherent in the meaning of the term Dressage.  To ride without a bridle is just a gimmick, any halfway decent trainer can teach that, and frankly, is not really "dressage" because it does not teach proper use of the hands and development of soft, quiet communication with the mouth.  "Classical" dressage is enough of a split, primarily one of philosophy more than technique, people basically unhappy with some of the judging preferences that have developed with modern competitive dressage.  But to imply that dressage--either type--is somehow not classic or somehow cruel -- there are jerks in every sport who are abusive, and practices like Rollkur are deservedly controversial, but the "natural" thing is juist silly stuff someone has some up with to make money, and it's offensive because it implies that all traditional methods are cruel, when in fact there is virtually no difference other than a marketing spin between them.  (I have the same beef with "natural" horsemanship in the western crowd, I can point you to books wirtten in the 1930s that advocate the same methodology. Arrrggh!) Asa always, wikipedia is not a soapbox and demands NPOV.  Montanabw(talk) 16:53, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I applaud your stance on NH, bitless and so forth, Montanabw. Having dressage split as classical and competitive is more than fine. I do wonder, however, when and how you will approach "Western dressage". Which, to me, is just vaquero-style riding with a new label. Can't win. Roan Art (talk) 14:42, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't get me started.  At least it's an antidote to the NH nonsense, however recycled and relabeled.  Montanabw(talk) 21:42, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  AND Wikipedia project 

message: Dr. Ritter is no longer in the United States. He moved back to Germany a couple of years ago with his wife and son. I don't think he ever applied for or received US citizenship? Roan Art (talk) 14:39, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dr. Ritter