Talk:Fighter Mafia

message: Sprey has become an often-cited critic of the F-35, including using comparisons of the accident rates of the early F-16 design that most strongly felt his design influence to argue that the F-35 ought to be equally unsafe.
Does "ought to be equally unsafe" mean is, regrettably, likely to be equally unsafe or does it mean should be deliberately designed to be equally unsafe?
129.55.200.20 (talk) 14:00, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use of 'ought' 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This article should be reduced to a stub. I is clearly a politically motivated polemic, an opinion piece and not appropriate for Wikipedia. There is a character assassination of Pierre Sprey, poorly referenced, and equally so for the A10. There is no balance. The writer should take this to a press outlet and try and get it published.Pesky Varmint (talk) 02:13, 30 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: The references to the A-10 are irrelevant and should be removed. S C Cheese (talk) 09:40, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disgraceful Article 

message: Okay, so the article says that the Gun is superior because it doesn't expose the plane to enemy AA fire like Missiles do.  The Gun is Superior, because it doesn't...expose the plane...to gunfire.
Isn't this crazytalk?  Like, the ZSU-23-4 beat the A-10 into production, and the 'armored bathtub' is just for the pilot, it can't protect the entire plane. You still need to line up your attack on that soviet armor column, and they can in fact shoot back at you.  The design range of the Gau-8 is 1200 meters, but the ZSU has a deign range almost twice as long.  The gun has to expose the plane to gunfire, there's no way around it.  It's a good tool to have, but if it is the only tool you have, it is not a good tool at all, because it is so easily countered by it's natural enemy-the Russian sewing machine.
Removing all the bomb and missile hardpoints alone won't shrink the plane to 1/5th the empty weight either, not unless you also shrink it to the point where it's hardly any bigger than a Cessna.  The Blitzfighter pictures I've seen depict a 2-engine plane, and if those are the same engines as on the A-10, then we're looking at a plane that's about 3000 pounds engine by mass and another 600 pounds of gun!  On a plane which is, according to this page, only 5000 pounds. (1/5th the weight of an A-10https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairchild_Republic_A-10_Thunderbolt_II#Specifications_(A-10C))  This leaves about 1400 pounds for all the skin, structure, fuel tanks and controls.  I won't pretend there's enough mass left over for an ejection seat, let alone any armor.  So either the Blitzfighter was a deathtrap, or it was not 1/5th the weight of the A-10.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.144.204.138 (talk) 00:45, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Just found this article while on a bit of a wiki-walk and did some copyediting cleanup... but now that I'm reading the article further there seems to be a lot of problems with it. What I think happened was was at some point there was extensive coverage of just what it was the Fighter Mafia was claiming but that coverage got broken apart and distributed until it now looks like the article is actually claiming those things itself. And when people go to cite those statements they wind up citing them to Fighter Mafia publications like POGO, which means they're still primary sources at best. Not sure how to approach this without a total rewrite. Aero-Plex (talk) 23:11, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  A-10 and Blitzfighter Gun and size.