Talk:Brahma Kumaris/Archive 1

message: Quick list of IP's and ID's of folks that just wipe out the article completely or do valdalism to the article.TalkAbout 16:22, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Dear 72.91.28.223,
Please let me explain the quick list.  These are folks that removed whole sections of the article.  That is not considered a change.  As per the Personal affront to me....please do visit my page (article on me) in the discussion section.  If you want to have a go at me for monitoring the page, that speaks volumes!
Now, please point out the sections that are not true and please cite how "I" am trying to destroy the reputation of an organization. Quoting 72.91.28.223"but is there something good to "talk about" about "talkabout"?  There must be" Well, by BK standards I am a Shudra, so I imagine nothing you post would be positive. OOOps did I just let another cat out of the bag? Caste system within the BKs?!?  
PEACETalkAbout 21:34, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Quick Vandalism list

message: Dear Karunabk,
Is this you below?
BK Karuna,
Chief of Multimedia, BrahmaKumaris
If so Wikipedia is to provide impartial information not public relation for the organization. Please confirm if this is indeed you and if so please refrain from vandalism of the wiki article. I only provided the above as it is public information on the main BK site. Regards/PEACE TalkAbout 22:51, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Dear 72.91.28.223,
Please let me explain the quick list.  These are folks that removed whole sections of the article.  That is not considered a change.  As per the Personal affront to me....please do visit my page (article on me) in the discussion section.  If you want to have a go at me for monitoring the page, that speaks volumes!
Now, please point out the sections that are not true and please cite how "I" am trying to destroy the reputation of an organization. Quoting 72.91.28.223"but is there something good to "talk about" about "talkabout"?  There must be" Well, by BK standards I am a Shudra, so I imagine nothing you post would be positive. OOOps did I just let another cat out of the bag? Caste system within the BKs?!?  
PEACETalkAbout 21:34, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: BK Karuna

message: Is it not "vandalism" to write something which is not true and to try to destroy the reputation of an organization? 
 Perhaps I should write an article about, you "Talkabout" and consider it vandalism every time you make a change...  that could work...but is there something good to "talk about" about "talkabout"?  There must be.
::Dear 72.91.28.223,
Please let me explain the quick list.  These are folks that removed whole sections of the article.  That is not considered a change.  As per the Personal affront to me....please do visit my page (article on me) in the discussion section.  If you want to have a go at me for monitoring the page, that speaks volumes!
Now, please point out the sections that are not true and please cite how "I" am trying to destroy the reputation of an organization. Quoting 72.91.28.223"but is there something good to "talk about" about "talkabout"?  There must be" Well, by BK standards I am a Shudra, so I imagine nothing you post would be positive. OOOps did I just let another cat out of the bag? Caste system within the BKs?!?  
PEACETalkAbout 21:34, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Complaint by 72.91.28.223

message: But please join the discussion page before making your edits. Outright vandalism will be reported.
*87.80.123.22
*195.82.106.244
*Brahmakumaris.info
I will leave you THREE to manage the wiki page.  Today being XBKChat’s last day, I think it is also a good departure day for me.  Do take care in being polite to others if you want them to take an interest in the wikipedia page and if indeed you seek contributors.  
The page looks pretty much complete in its present form and shows many hours of work invested in it by caring people.  
Do keep in mind that one catches more bees with honey even in the course of a discussion as it provides for an open mind. PEACETalkAbout 18:23, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Contributors wanted

message: This article refers to the " destruction of the World " meaning the similar to understanding most Christians have of Armageddon  or modern day Christian evanglists call " end times ". It is referred to by the BKWSU as " Destruction " and so that is the term used here, as clarified in the article. It does not mean the destruction of the planet Earth.
195.82.106.244 22:45, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Destruction

message: Well, after pointing out mistakes, bias, non neutrality and bad faith from the author of this article, still no a single word has been changed. The author of this article even feel "insulted." Sir, I am concerned about you. Even, when you contradict yourself many times and still defend yur view point. The verifiability link you sent me clearly shows that your article does not comply with its requirements : 
"Information on Wikipedia must be reliable. Facts, viewpoints, theories, and arguments may only be included in articles if they have already been published by reliable and reputable sources. Articles should cite these sources whenever possible. Any unsourced material may be challenged and removed."
Your Bibliography certainly does not point out to your own descriptions. You are basing your "facts" in what you have experienced in the UK. The UK is not the the whole BK. There is more to it. Your experiences does not make it a fact. Your proofs do not contain an official document, it is just stuff you are writing. Please see that. Their is no encyclopedia who will write in bias language such as: "their God." They would do it in a more appropriately way such as: " They be
lieve that God.... etc. It would surprise me if you take the time to fix these bias. BTW, how about the dinosaurs? Did you fix that? (third time)
now I will concentrate on your comments:
Which aspect of entropy do you wish to discuss and what is its relevance here? Your science is being judged here  and it does not suggest that you are qualified in this area. Any discussion of what entropy is ought to be done on the respective pages and new concepts put through scientific peer review'''
 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.119.13.124 (talk • contribs) 
: Just to clarify " Your science ", the article for deletion on the topic Cyclical Time, , was written by the above contributor alone and this editor had no involvement in its creation. I have never contributed on scientific matters 
* The article has been deleted by overwhelming consensus.
: Dinosaurs. OK. The BK World Spiritual University teach that time or Creation exists as a 5,000 year cycle. There is no mention of their existing in " Heaven " on earth. In your opinion, when during that cycle do they teach dinosaurs existed?
: " Their god " is actually very common construction in English. Try checking with Google.com. The specific point being made here is that the BKWSU teach that they are unique representatives of " God ", in that " God " comes in person only to them, and teaches these concepts reported. Other experts or monotheistic religions might not agree that this is the " One God " they share, nor that these teachings are " God's " teachings. Pantheists might agree that it is " a " god, one of many. And so hence, " their God " is accurate.
: 195.82.106.244 11:00, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: There is no change in the form of this article

message: New discussion request as per avyakt7Rivers11. PEACETalkAbout 01:16, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The World Cycle Discussions Started August, 2006

message: Just to clarify that the use of the word, " Destruction " is accurate in this context as it is the word used by the founder and organization.
THe following is a quote from the spirit entity the BKs call their " God ", channelled through the spiritualistic medium of Lehkraj Lekhraj Kripalani. Knowns as a " sakar murli ", that is a scripture spoken through Lekhraj Kripalani. It was re-edited by senior members of the BKWSU and republished internationally within the organization dated 30.05.06, to be read to all members at the daily morning class ; 
: " ... The intellect says that we have come out of the Iron Age. Baba [ God ] has come...... Children [ B.K.s ] know that when our study is completed then the destruction will take place. Destruction is certainly going to take place. There are some among you who know this. If it is understood that the world is going to be destroyed then one will start preparing for the new world. One will make ready the baggage. There is a little time left. We should become Baba's children [ become B.K.s following the BKs' god ]. Even if anyone has to die of hunger, it will be first Baba [ Lehkraj Lekhraj Kripalani ] and then children [ B.K.s ]."
: [ Comments in brackets to translate the word previous ].
As verifiable material, I think this clears up the matter of the use of the word " Destruction. Withing the BKWSU, use of the word " Destruction " has given it a specific meaning that is used here, e.g. the guarantied death of over 5.1 Billion human beings the destruction of world civilisation as it stands and the " disappearing " of all other land masses on the globe, except India. 
This is what contributor Riveros11 using IP addresses 70.119.13.124, and indeed the BK organization externally, euphemistically calls " Transformation ". I hope that this closes the matter and draws attention to the intent and integrity of the BK contributor.
195.82.106.244 10:23, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Destruction 

message: It seems that Geejap and the anonymous user at 67.187.114.132 are colluding to vandalize the page invoking the 3RR rule and risking being banned. Complete erasure of an article is clearly vanalism.
Although an admin will have to explore Geejaps location, I see the 67.187.114.132 user is with Comcast in NJ but the block IPs seems to be in Texas, see below ;
 
  Country:    US 
  Updated:    2005-07-18 
  NetRange:   67.187.64.0 - 67.187.127.255 
  CIDR:       67.187.64.0/18 
  NetName:    TEXAS-16 
  Parent:     NET-67-160-0-0-1 
One suggestion to a registered user:
 Would you please start new pages for Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual Organization [ with a Z ], Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University and BKWSU" These pages can then forwarded onto this article bys omeone else if the registered user does not know how.
. Not all users looking for information on the BKWSU will use British English spelling and some may wish to query the acronym but not find any page.
To make a auto redirect, one creates a new page by following the links above. The Wiki will offer you to start a new page and tell you how. Once you have done so, then types in ;
 #REDIRECT the_name_of_the_original_page_goes_here  
replacing " the_name_of_the_original_page_goes_here " with where ever you want the page to redirect to.
It may be that the Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University ought be the master page and this one link to it. I would support a move.
Thanks, 195.82.106.244 14:25, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism, 3RR policy violation and new page request. 

message: Brahma Kumaris (ID) If you represent the organisation please provide links on your "Official" website that would indicate or refute that none of the information here within is true.  For example:The organization does not teach detachment or the organisation does not teach its it's followers X or Y and place these on the "Official" website.  Simple really.  
Also 59.92.200.181 I would suggest you do the same rather then erase all the information.  The truth is out there on various sites and from a varity of sources now. So, the fact that you went to the trouble to erase the discussion page shows that you are fearful of your former followers speaking the TRUTH or "THEIR OWN MINDS"! So, in other words the Barn doors were left open (folks using their nogins) and the horse is out of the barn.TalkAbout 15:03, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: VANDALISM of Wiki page

message: By what you say, Jesselp you were not even born in 1976. You were a kid when mum / folks were in the BKWSU, right?
According to psychology, what level comprehension does a 10 year old have of such things? As a teenager, what degree of incalcation did you have? In essence, how do you qualify yourself as a BK or even ex-BK and how deep did you go into investigating the organisation and its history before your own? Or did you just take for granted what you were told?
On your discussion page, you  have some rock hard, objective facts for you to follow up on, including the 1976 reference and others. If you want copies of of the publications to take back and confront your parent/parents or the seniors BK sisters with, please leave an email address on your website and I will forward them.
This is what the Wiki is for, easily verifiable citations. Not predication nor PR. 
Frankly, you do not know what you are talking about. Once you have verified those references, please come back and tell us what you have found or what else you need to know.
As someone with absolutely no qualifications in psychology, I'd say you were acting defensively to protect those you are close to and, potentially, are in denial. So less of the faux academia, go check the references please.  Thanks.
87.80.123.22 21:03, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  1976 

message: Thank you for experimenting with Wikipedia by creating the page :Dadi janki. Your test worked, and has been or will soon be removed. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia.   (aeropagitica)   (talk)   12:13, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Dadi janki]], [[Janki foundation]]Archiving due to deletion on Jesselp page

message: Removed link to interfaith group as this was not what the reference given refers to.
The article doe snot need to be an All and Everything about BKWSU. There are search engines for that. The reference to bringing together of parties refered to the meeting of the major Shankacharyas in India not local interfaith groups which the BK has always infiltrated as platforms to promote their beliefs.
Removed particular because the link is the usual BK PR whitewash; e.g. " the Founder of the University, Brahma Baba, was a visionary who felt that God was inspiring him to work for world change ".
The founder Lekhraj Kripalani did not " feel that God was inspiring him ", Lekhraj believed that Shiva has decended into his head and was talking to others, and giving psychic experiences, through him. 
Big difference.
195.82.106.244 14:19, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Links 

message: P.B.K.
http://www.shivbaba.org.pl/ P.B.K. websites. 
http://www.shivbaba.ca/ 
http://www.creator-creation.com/ 
http://www.rajayoga.org.pl/ 
http://www.rajayoga.org.pl/en/?name=vocabulary dictionary of Raja Yoga terminology. 
PBK
Believing himself to be a reincarnation of Lekhraj Kirpalani's business partner, Virendra Dev Dikşi split away from main body of the Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual Organisation to form the Adhyatmik Ishwariya Vishwa Vidyalaya or " P.B.K. movement " after being barred from B.K. Raja Yoga centres. He continues to teach and is considered to be the true channeler of the guiding spirit or " God " they and the BKWSU call Shiva Baba. Followers call themselves " PBKs ".
Below is what the PBKS keep inserting. 
*The above are all the links to the PBKs where people can access all the PR beliefs.  
*A sub-sect is one that comes from an original sect.  Which you acknowledge in your PR items below! So, there is a logic loop here?
*There is no University unless you mean the Knowledge base which started with the BKs and which the PBKs are churning.  As you know the PBKs depend on past BKs murli's so once again re-inforcing the sub-sect issue.
*PBKs Please keep in mind that this is not a PR wiki.
I would like a discussion as to adding the below with some corrections if needed.
*PBKs believe the first level is basic knowledge, which the BKs become instrumental in delivering. The second level is advance knowledge, which the PBKs believe they instrumental in delivering. They believe both levels of knowledge are taught by the one father Shiva and Brahmins. They believe both BK and PBK families are really the two halves of just one godly family.
*Brahmins who are in Prajapita Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University - BKs, recognise Shiva as the mother in the body of Dada Lekhraj (alias Brahma Baba). They refer to themselves as Brahma Kumar/Kumaris (BK), which means "Sons and Daughters of the Mother" (Brahma means "great mother").
*PBKs - Brahmins of Adhyatmik Ishwariya Vishva Vidyalaya, recognise both Shiva's role as the mother played through the body of Dada Lekhraj and also Shiva's role as father, teacher and supreme guide played through the body of Virendra Dev Dixit. They refer to themselves as "Prajapita Brahma Kumar/Kumari" (Sons / Daughters of Father and Mother).
The above would help in basic separation of beliefs.  .244 I do believe the above would be helpful.PEACE13:48, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: PBKs

message: The word sect comes from the Latin secta (from sequi to follow), meaning (1) a course of action or way of life, (2) a behavioural code or founding principles, (3) a specific philosophical school or doctrine. Sectarius or sectilis also refer to a scission or cut, but this meaning is, in contrast to popular opinion, unrelated to the etymology of the word. A sectator is a loyal guide, adherent or follower.  
In essence it is more palatable than say CultTalkAbout 18:44, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: '''Etymology''' of Sect

message: Greetings! I am a member of the BK information technology team approaching you, on their behalf, regarding the content of the article about the Brahma Kumaris on the Wikipedia page. It is a fairly comprehensive article with a clear structure and leaves the reader with an appreciation of the effort that may have gone into its research. 
 
However, it is misleading in that whilst appearing to be authoritative, it is written in a way as to bias the uninformed reader against the organisation.  In a number of places, use of disparaging language and a gross misrepresentation of facts gives the impression that the article hasn’t been written in good faith.  
 
An example of a straight untruth appears in the fourth paragraph under “Origins”, where the entry states that the community moved to Mount Abu in 1950 “mainly due to the religious resistance to its activities in Pakistan”.   In fact, the group had become well-respected in Karachi, where local leaders tried to dissuade them from leaving.  They moved to India at the request of relatives.
 
Everyone has an equal right to contribute to this article and we respect that individuals have a right to express their opinions about the organisation. However, as the Wikipedia site is used by many as a reference for what they consider to be a neutral point of view, the existence of such a biased article is an issue that warrants attention.
 
With respect to the rules that Wikipedia sets out for proceeding forward amicably, I look forward to engaging in discussion with you so that proposed changes can be reviewed before any implementation occurs. Having read the discussion pages, I plan to start proposing incremental changes to the page over a period of time.
In the first instance, bearing in mind the above and evidence of obvious questioning of neutrality in the discussion pages, we would like to re-instate the neutrality warning box.  I hope that this is acceptable. Bksimonb 05:12, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  BK information technology team