Talk:Somatic symptom disorder

message: This article needs an update since the DSM-5 proposes new naming for this category "Somatic Symptom Disorders" and Hypochondriasis is proposed to be devided in two subcategories: "Complex somatic symptom disorder" and "Illness Anxiety Disorder".  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.217.70.179 (talk) 07:19, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  An update 

message: Is there any objective evidence demonstrating that this condition actually exists, as oppose to a patient have both physical and mental pain or indeed, only physical pain of unknown origin?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.145.198.172 (talk) 18:11, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Objective Evidence 

message: A word on differential diagnosis may be nice here. The disorders are similar and overlapping, so explaining how they are each unique would be nice. --1000Faces (talk) 17:27, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Differential Diagnosis 

message: Ok if I move this page to Somatic symptom disorder per DSM5 (http://www.dsm5.org/documents/somatic%20symptom%20disorder%20fact%20sheet.pdf)? Robert Badgett 21:37, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Fine by me! Lova Falk talk 08:01, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree this should be done. 24.97.201.230 (talk) 01:59, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Can someone that knows how to move this page to be called "Somatic symptom disorder" do so please? 24.97.201.230 (talk) 02:02, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

text: It would also be excellent if someone that is familiar with the DSM-5 and psychiatry could edit. 24.97.201.230 (talk) 02:03, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  The page has been moved to the title indicated by the included sources. Thank you for affecting this change by your request.—John Cline (talk) 03:25, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rename page 

message: I think it may be important to recognize that even though the individual's symptoms don't point to anything physiologically wrong, they can develop other health risks associated with their perceptions. I would like to add this to the introductory section. --CKemble (talk) 21:51, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Physiological Manifestations

message: This reference:
:
shares its name, pmid9107152, with this reference:
:
One or both are used four times in the article with this reference tag: .  Clearly the first reference definition should be renamed to be something different from the second, perhaps <ref name="pmid19551600">.
Somatic system disorder is not my topic so I will leave it to others to determine which if any of the  references need to be changed to match the new name.
—Trappist the monk (talk) 19:55, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  misnamed reference 

message: This article is incorrect. The diagnosis does not require the symptoms to be medically "unexplained" in the DSM-V criteria for "somatic symptom disorder." This was the case in DSM-IV with the predecessor diagnoses only. e.g. see this review: Management of somatic symptom disorder - PubMed (nih.gov). I will wait for any comments before correcting the article. InnerCitadel (talk) 08:02, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Medically unexplained comment 

message: (Comment simultaneously posted on the three relevant talk pages.)
There appears to be a disconnect between the definition of "psychosomatic" in use for the Psychogenic disease, Psychosomatic medicine, and Somatic symptom disorder pages.
Psychogenic disease describes it as "illnesses with a known medical cause where psychological factors may nonetheless play a role (e.g., asthma can be exacerbated by anxiety)."
Somatic symptom disorder, which is the redirect for "psychosomatic," doesn't directly reference the word at all in the body of the article, but if we assume from the redirect that the two words are implied to be synonymous, it is "any mental disorder that manifests as physical symptoms that suggest illness or injury, but cannot be explained fully by a general medical condition or by the direct effect of a substance, and are not attributable to another mental disorder (e.g., panic disorder)." Already, these two conflict.
Psychosomatic medicine corroborates the definition used in Psychogenic illness, saying "in contemporary psychosomatic medicine, the term is normally restricted to those illnesses that do have a clear physical basis, but where it is believed that psychological and mental factors also play a role." But it further states that "psychiatry traditionally distinguishes between psychosomatic disorders, disorders in which mental factors play a significant role in the development, expression, or resolution of a physical illness, and somatoform disorders, disorders in which mental factors are the sole cause of a physical illness."
It also appears to use the terms "psychosomatic" and "psychogenic" interchangeably (or without a clarified distinction) without linking to Psychogenic disease.
As Somatic symptom disorder is the redirect for somatoform disorder, this now means Psychosomatic medicine claims two of its redirects are distinct concepts.
This appears to be a tangle in need of cleaning up and I do not know how to approach it. Aliengeometries (talk) 05:50, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I totally agree, and i dont beleive that the definition "any mental disorder that manifests as physical symptoms that suggest illness or injury, but cannot be explained fully by a general medical condition" is accurate, correct me if im wrong but the syptoms aren't always physical, (for example psychogenic amnesia, witch presents more mental symptoms than physical). But even the page for psychogenic disease has a similar definition, witch dosent line up with a variety of the definitions for disorder with psychogenic in the name, ill try to get an idea of how to clean this up, but it seems like a fairly large projects, especially when it comes to correcting the deffinitions of everything, as well as fixing up witch (matic)/(genic) each article is reffering to. ¿V0id? {have a great day!} (talk) 14:28, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Definition of "psychosomatic" across pages 

message: A recent anonymous edit added links to 3 complex (but most definitely not psychological) chronic illnesses to the “See Also” section. As every other link there appears to be about some form of psychological or fictitious disorder, I have to question the motives behind this recent edit.
The conditions in question (ME/CFS, POTS, and EDS) are all conditions lacking decent public awareness, making diagnosis difficult, and being that they are dynamic and generally outwardly invisible illnesses, patients with these conditions are frequently accused of hypochondria and other psychological issues by the uninformed. CFS is infamous for getting this treatment, and while most people are still unfamiliar with EDS snd POTS, this has been happening to them as well as awareness (but not necessarily *informed* awareness/understanding) increases.
If the motive in including those on this page was to highlight the above issue, I’m not sure it was well-executed, considering the conditions aren’t mentioned in the article itself. Listing them with a bunch of fictitious and psychological disorders gives the impression that they also fit that description (which is already a frustratingly common misconception, as stated above).
It’s also possible they were added ignorantly or even maliciously by someone with these misconceptions. If so, that’s concerning. I’d encourage people to not add info to wikipedia about medical conditions if they lack a decent understanding, as this can have harmful effects they may not even be aware of.
I’ve removed the links (one didn’t even link to the correct page anyway) and I’d argue they need to stay removed unless someone can make a good case for why those three ought to be singled out and included in that section when no other physical conditions were. (Uninformed personal bias is not a valid source) Catfrost (talk) 23:41, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello @Catfrost. Thanks for deleting these, I agree they did not belong in this article. Please be aware of the norms on Wikipedia around talking about other editors: it's really not done to ascribe motivations to other people's actions. Instead, we should simply WP:Focus on content. —Femke 🐦 (talk) 13:22, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for your reply and for the very polite correction! Obviously that’s a sound policy. My apologies, will make an effort to avoid doing that in the future. What is the protocol with mistakes like this on the talk page? Should I leave my above comment as-is or is it preferred to edit it? Catfrost (talk) 16:25, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: You can strike it using  and  tags. Normally when somebody has replied to it, you can't simply remove it. —Femke 🐦 (talk) 18:03, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

text: I agree with what @Femke has to say but to answer your question I believe these disorders were added to the see also section because there has been studies showing somatic symptoms overlap or are prevalent in CFS/ME, POTS , and hEDS. I'm not saying they belong in this article but that's most likely why they were originally added. CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 22:16, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: The ME/CFS papers I think would be a reach here. The first one is a primary source that's quite specific that it was studying Chronic Fatigue, not CFS. This is specifically pointed out in the discussion. The 2nd is a review, I guess, though the abstract reads like an opinion piece. I couldn't find a way to access it, but assuming it would qualify as a reliable secondary source in line with WP policy, it'd probably be an odd fit as well. It's a German text and if the linkage were valid to include ME/CFS papers in this article, wouldn't it stand to reason that an English publication would be the best option? Beyond that, both date back some 15+ years, during which time we've seen significant revisions of ME/CFS case definitions in much of the English-speaking world. I'd go even further & suggest that that paper looks to have arguably been an outlier even by 2007 standards, perhaps explaining why it's not likely there's an English language equivalent that would've previously made sense in the ME/CFS article. That said, all I could see was the abstract, so it's not wise to judge on that alone, but it certainly came off as atypical in the context of ME/CFS literature generally. NeurastheniaMilkshake (talk) 00:03, 25 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah I'm not trying to argue anything in particular because I honestly don't feel educated enough on this topic to form a strong opinion either way. I'm not advocating for these disorders to be considered somatic symptom disorders and I think it was appropriate to remove them. If we included every disease that's ever been linked to somatic symptom disorder then we wouldn't have enough room on the page as it's a very complex topic. Regardless I just wanted to provide some input as to why someone might have felt the need to add these articles. CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 22:41, 25 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text:  (Tiny comment: somatic means bodily. The word disorder here implies that's it's related to mental health. That is "cancer is a somatic disease"). —Femke 🐦 (talk) 06:47, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for pointing this out, I'll edit my comment for clarity. CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 23:08, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Questioning why these conditions were added to the See Also section

message: I was wondering if I could have some help clarifying the difference between Somatic symptom disorder and Somatization disorder. It seems like Somatic symptom disorder is supposed to be a category of disorders however most literature establishes it as its own disorder. Somatic symptom disorder and Somatization disorder mostly contain the same information and I'm wondering if Somatization disorder should be redirected to Somatic symptom disorder. CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 19:34, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Classification and difference between [[Somatic symptom disorder]] vs. [[Somatization disorder]]