Talk:Dagger

message: Should a discussion of daggers, poniards, stilettos, and related weapons be placed under "dagger" or "knife"?
|s&a-work-group=yes |s&a-priority=Low
:Under dagger I think.  I just checked poniards and stilettos in the dictionary, and they are described as types of daggers.  Knife could probably do with being broadened slightly though in this respect... as the moment it doesn't even link to dagger. fabiform|talk 21:59, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Dagger or knife?

message: During the middle ages daggers never fell out of favour, but rather remained a knight's side arm. In addition, chivalry had little to do with medieval combat, in fact the Codex Wallerstein demonstrates how to castrate someone with their own dagger.
:Although it is unlikely that the Dagger truly fell out of favour during the 'Middle Ages' (whatever period is here being referred to), they do somewhat fall out of the visual record during the eleventh and twelfth centuries as weapons carried in addition to Swords. I'm yet to have this satisfactorily explained to me and I'm not inclined to believe that men who could afford a Sword did not also carry a Dagger/Knife, but the visual record is undeniable.--M.J.Stanham 00:15, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Daggers falling out of favour? 

message: See:  --Iancarter 23:04, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Image removed (again). Again, see . The picture is blatantly inauthentic and does not help clarify/illustrate the article in anyway. There is a good chunk of writing in the caption, but it provides only general information on all bladed weapons instead of anything specific to daggers, thus there's no great need to be salvaged. Uly 19:04, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture 

message: At the bottom of the Daggers page is some extraneous text completely unrelated to weapons; rather, it deals with a slang term also known as "dagger" that is not relevant to this page. Here is the passage:  
The word "Dagger" is also used as a slang term to indicate something terrible has suddenly occured. This originated from Washington Wizards play-by-play man Steve Buckhantz and gained popularity on websites like Terptown and also on The Junkies Radio Show. Example: "My boss just told me I have to come in on Saturday." "Dagger."
Jim's friend: "I can't believe you let me sleep with that chick when you knew she had the herp." Jim: "Dagger."
Query: Does this alternative meaning of "dagger" more properly belong on a disambiguation page? If so, would someone who knows how to do disambiguation please take the lead and make it happen? I'm too inexperienced to tackle it, so would appreciate your thoughts and possible help. Jack Bethune 18:42, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree: The slang term is not common and should go in Wiktionary not Wikipedia. Case of WP:NOT --Iancarter 22:32, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Agree: The article is about short, knife-like stabbing weapons. That passage on slang shouldn't be in Wikipedia at all. —vivacissamamente 18:52, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disambiguation Page Needed? 

message: I deleted something about "long, narrow knives called sica," as all the references I found on the internet seemed copied from Wikipedia. We had said they were Greek, before Gaius Cornelius left them in incomplete sentence form and dozens of subsequent editors ignored this fragment entirely. If anyone knows anything about sica, please add it, preferably with details. —vivacissamamente 18:52, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sica 

message: I think that this article does not contain enough information on the dagger.  If you're familiar with the sword article, this article should at least be as comprehensive as that article.  We need uses, different dagger types, blade types, et cetera.
User:VanHelsing 9:00pm, 9/15/2007  —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 00:59, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  We need more in-depth information and an expansion 

message: This paragraph had been added at the top of the article, please merge it if anything is useful: 
"Daggers" can also be used as a slang term to mean a hyperbole form of "struggles."  As in: "That I was late to the test was struggles enough, but failing the test and having to take the course over was daggers."  Usually, emphasis is placed on the first syllable, and is drawn out according to the severity of the situation.  The term was coined in New Jersey c. 2006.  It derives from the weapon, dagger, and is used in situations in which one feels metaphorically stabbed by the weapon multiple times. 
Nicolas1981 (talk) 07:28, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: See stiletto Dellant (talk) 21:14, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  To merge 

message: I found this nice picture on Flickr, along with this etymology: "A dagger (from Vulgar Latin: 'daca' - a Dacian knife) is a typically double-edged blade used for stabbing or thrusting.".
They could be great additions to the article.
--Codrin.B (talk) 03:27, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etymology and picture 

message: A dagger is a stabbing weapon that doesn't necessarily have any cutting edges at all (see Roundel).
A knife is a cutting weapon or tool that isn't necessarily designed for stabbing (see Butter Knife).  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.164.17.26 (talk) 14:24, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The dagger was not infrequently a cut-down version of a short sword or long sword, and it is no coincidence that the double-edged dagger possessed the same characteristics of many swords - two symmetrical cutting edges, a sharply-tapered point, and central spine or fuller.  Most modern knife authorities define the modern dagger as a fighting knife with the same features.  Unfortunately, the term 'dagger' has been very loosely applied over the years by the general public to mean any knife or instrument with a sharp point that is designed OR capable of being used as a stabbing weapon.  The general or lay definition of the 'dagger' as any pointed knife or stabbing weapon includes everything from the stiletto to the ice pick, even sharply-pointed kitchen knives, and was quickly adopted by the editors of  Webster's: "1. a sharp pointed knife for stabbing; 2. something that resembles a dagger" and other popular-use dictionaries, publications that care little about technical accuracy.  Predictably, the popular dictionary definition of 'dagger' has been eagerly seized upon by prosecutors, police, and the courts to define almost any sharp-pointed instrument as a 'dagger' under state criminal knife statutes, meaning that your chef's knife is now a "dagger" in the eyes of the law (see e.g. State v. Martin, 633 S.W.2d 80 (Mo. 1982): Missouri Supreme Court rules jury may find that ordinary pointed knife with four-to-five inch blade constitutes a 'dagger' under the Missouri criminal code;  California Penal Code 12020(a)(24):"dagger" means a knife or other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon (note the wording: 'capable of ready use', not 'designed' or 'intended') that may inflict great bodily injury or death.  The consequences of using such loose terminology argue strongly for keeping the precise, technical description of a true dagger in the text, at the very least as an alternate definition. Dellant (talk) 16:43, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Excellent summary. I was told by an Assistant District Attorney in Southern California that sharpened pencils and even metal compasses used by schoolchildren fall under that State's "Dirk and Dagger" clause.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 18:12, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

text: Strictly speaking, daggers, swords, and short swords were frequent reinventions of each other, depending upon the time period and region.  What I was referring to in the context of the definition of a dagger is the modern era, in which the basic characteristics of a true or fighting dagger - double edges, central spine or fuller, and sharply tapered point - have become recognized elements of the design, much like the modern Bowie Knife.  These characteristics were commonly accepted by knife authorities, historians, and edged weapon enthusiasts - the only groups who take an interest in the dagger and its history, at least until a knife crime grabs the public interest.  There will, of course, always be persons who, like the dictionary editors, term anything that can be used to stab another (i.e., any sharp object with a point) as a 'dagger'.Dellant (talk) 20:02, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Just to add to that, sometimes there are conflicting terms used throughout history.  For example, when Geronimo was taken into custody, his knife was described as a "spearpoit Bowie", a "San Francisco knife", and a "Sheffield Bowie" at the time.  A person looking at that same knife today, 125 years later, would simply call it a "dagger".  Here is a pic of a reproduction of the original which is in the Fort Sill army museum .--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 22:10, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Definition of 'Dagger' - common dictionary versus precise technical definitions

message: Hi, in Italian, Spanish and (I think) other languages, there is a distinction between dagger (:it:Pugnale, :es:Puñal) and "daga" (:it:Daga (arma), :es:Daga) the latter being a longer and larger version of a dagger (practically a slightly smaller short sword). Does english have this distinction or something similar? Or does it fall under the dagger category? In some pages it points to Poignard, although the poignard is narrower and appered after the "daga". Thanks, --Amendola90 (talk) 16:11, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Daga