Talk:Ennis Del Mar

message: :Image:Brokebackmountainheathledger.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Brokebackmountainheathledger.jpg

message: IMO sexual orientation should reflect either self identification or dominant behavior.  Both Ennis and Jack denied gay self identification in the film.  The film portrays more women in Ennis' life and more men in Jack's life but neither makes an obvious dominant sexual behaviour choice as Ennis drifts towards asexual and Jack never leaves his wife.  I'm removing Category:Fictional gay men pending futher discussion.  Conrad T. Pino 05:16, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you remove Fictional gay men from their category sections, then you should remove Fictional bisexuals, seeing as neither claim to be bisexual, and just as many film critics have stated that they are gay. Flyer22 06:06, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I tend towards agreeing with your assertion.  A person's story told by themselves must be honored as doing less is profoundly disrespectful.  A person's story told by another is valid only if based on observable and preferably verifiable behavior.  Applying a label to another based on interpreting behavior is inherently subjective and why I find critics' assertions less than persuasive.  I suggest that heterosexual, bisexual and homosexual (gay) are commonly used as mutually exclusive terms.  Within the mutually exclusive premise "bisexual" fits best but I don't claim an excellent fit, just better than the other alternatives.  I propose staying within the bounds of what we can verify with reliable sources.  I also believe the story would be diminished had sexual orientation been made explicit which is why I can support removing bisexual as well.  Conrad T. Pino 07:28, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So you're okay with me removing them from the Fictional bisexuals category, right? And letting the LGBT categorization stand as being what includes them as part of the gay (or bisexual) community? Flyer22 07:52, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, you have my support to remove bisexual, I support the LGBT categorization and I'll help in the pursuit of additional proposals as well.  Conrad T. Pino 08:11, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, Conrad. Thanks. It's been really pleasant talking with you. I'll weigh in further as well, as to any other editors commenting on this matter in the future. Flyer22 08:17, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Categorize sexual orientation criteria 

message: It is not Wikipedia policy to put "the late" in front of the names of people who are no longer living.  There are literally billions of such people, after all, and writing about "the late Richard Nixon" and "the late Jimmy Durante" and "the late Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother" and "the late William Shakepeare" gets a bit ridiculous.  In the case of this article in particular, it really isn't relevant to the character whether an actor who portrayed him is still alive or not. - JasonAQuest (talk) 06:31, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I support you removing "the late" from this article. Flyer22 (talk) 19:11, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Late 

message: The Irish word for "island" is "inis", pronounced rather like "inish" in English. I don't know what "Ennis" means, but it's not even close to the Irish "inis".
85.224.210.112 (talk) 21:38, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Feel free to remove it if it is wrong. WP:Be Bold. Flyer22 (talk) 16:36, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ennis is not Irish 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: * I'd go with "Ennis del Mar" because that's how the novelist spells it in her book. It would be fine with me to add a line somewhere saying (if this is true) that in the script for the movie, the "d" in "Del" is capitalized. Novellasyes (talk) 20:57, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Should it be Ennis del Mar?

message: *If this is a Requested move discussion, use WP:RM; if this is a Request for comments, use WP:RFC. As it currently stands, it is just a WP:LOCALCONSENSUS that has no 'validity'. I also find interesting that after I pointed out Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Writing about fiction and Wp:Naming character articles, which support the usage of Del Mar, this subsections appeared. But I will assume it is a mere coincidence. © Tbhotch™ 23:32, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Here's the script, as requested: "JACK: Nice to know you Ennis Del Mar". © Tbhotch™ 23:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: And you know what, I've asked enough times to open a RM discussion. I'll do it myself. There's no legitimate reasons to keep this MOS-related change to a limited discussion in a paged watched by no more than 30 people. © Tbhotch™ 23:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  33 watchers follow this page and … 8,837 people have viewed it recently. You are afraid to be alone, or what?-Arorae (talk) 00:15, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

text:  the very poor quality of the typography in the script proves nothing.-Arorae (talk) 00:18, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: If someone is afraid of anything here is this edgy user. © Tbhotch™ 00:40, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  I am never afraid. Except for meeting people that did not accept any kind of discussion. And, I do not want to know if « edgy user » could be an insult.-Arorae (talk) 02:04, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Should it be Ennis Del Mar?

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 
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{{Tmbox
|small = 
|imageright = 
|type = move
|text = It was proposed in this section that :Ennis Del Mar be renamed and moved to . 
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Not moved. See below the rare instance of an opposer who proposes a rename to garner consensus against it. I think that has not been achieved here locally; however, the community appears to have the floor with policy consensus in this case. An unusual case all around with fairly strong supporting arguments, so there is no prejudice if the "no consensus" rule is invoked, and editors strengthen their rationales to try again in 3–6 months to achieve consensus for a page move to the lower case "del Mar" for this article title. Gentle reminder and caution that a bit more than WP:IAR might be needed. Kudos to editors for your input, and Happy, Healthy Publishing! (nac by page mover) P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 02:23, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Ennis Del Mar →  – On the discussion immediately above, it was raised the question if the current name of the page is the correct one. This happened because of the original character at Brokeback Mountain (short story), written by Annie Proulx, published by the New Yorker in 1997. Proulx wrote the character as "Ennis del Mar". 8 years later Brokeback Mountain was released. The character was renamed to "Ennis Del Mar" (see film credits at 01:52 and the original script). Since then most sources use the capitalized version of the character, which arises the question, what is the name of the character? © Tbhotch™ 01:49, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

text: Additional comment: I alerted Wikipedia talk:Article titles to this discussion. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 08:41, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

text: The discussion above is closed.  Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
===Footnoted===
After discussing the matter a bit with Paine, who I feel closed this in a more-than-reasonable manner if not quite satisfying me personally, I've added a footnote about the capitalization variance. I hope this will be considered a reasonable compromise but am happy to discuss other options. DonIago (talk) 13:59, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

text: dear , it is ok for me. But should I say nevertheless that the capitalisation is not in the movie? Of course the movie script wrote Del Mar but the typography of the films is done only to turn the scenes, not to written them.--Arorae (talk) 16:18, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: If the capitalization never appears in the film itself, I would lean toward saying that the wording of the footnote should say that the capitalization is specifically from the film script, but I'm not sure whether we might need a source to make that assertion. DonIago (talk) 17:31, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Included two sources, one for the short story that depicts the lc spelling and one for TV Guide that depicts the uc spelling. P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 20:52, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks! DonIago (talk) 01:31, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 29 August 2020 

message: After discussing the matter a bit with Paine, who I feel closed this in a more-than-reasonable manner if not quite satisfying me personally, I've added a footnote about the capitalization variance. I hope this will be considered a reasonable compromise but am happy to discuss other options. DonIago (talk) 13:59, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: dear , it is ok for me. But should I say nevertheless that the capitalisation is not in the movie? Of course the movie script wrote Del Mar but the typography of the films is done only to turn the scenes, not to written them.--Arorae (talk) 16:18, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: If the capitalization never appears in the film itself, I would lean toward saying that the wording of the footnote should say that the capitalization is specifically from the film script, but I'm not sure whether we might need a source to make that assertion. DonIago (talk) 17:31, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Included two sources, one for the short story that depicts the lc spelling and one for TV Guide that depicts the uc spelling. P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 20:52, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks! DonIago (talk) 01:31, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Footnoted