Talk:CityRail

message: *List of lines is not 100% correct since Cityrail clarified things recently - see  for an up-to-date network map.
*Illawarra line article really describes the intercity South Coast line, should be moved.
—Stormie 06:49, Sep 15, 2004 (UTC)
:I know this is from a long time ago, but Illawarra line refers to the metropolitan section of the line; whereas South Coast line refers to the inter-city services. This is an important distinction because although they share the same tracks, South Coast line trains bypass all but the major metro stations (eg. Hurstville). Also, Illawarra line continues to Bondi Junction; whereas South Coast line ends in Central.--Alexio 01:10, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: some peak hour south coast trains run to bondi junction 113.211.210.222 (talk) 08:52, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: To Do (2004)

message: This is in contrast to railway systems in many other large cities around the world. For instance, a person living in Oakville thirty kilometres west of Toronto, Canada who works in downtown Toronto approximately two kilometres from Toronto's Union Station will need to catch a commuter rail train service operated by GO Transit to Union Station, where he/she will have to change to a subway train service operated by the Toronto Transit Commission to complete his/her journey to work. This commuter will have to buy two different tickets from two different railway operators.
Meanwhile, a person who lives in Blacktown thirty kilometres west of Sydney and works in the city centre two kilometres from Sydney's Central Station can catch a CityRail suburban service from his/her local station. However, the train does not terminate at Central Station; the train then proceeds onward into the underground portions of the network which criss-cross Sydney's downtown area and some inner city neighbourhoods without the need to change trains or buy tickets from two or more different railway organisations.''
Is such a verbose example neccessary? Is it really that hard to understand that you only need one ticket to travel from the suburbs to the city centre? T.P.K. 22:15, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I realise this is an old debate, but I'd like to point out that just because Oakville and Blacktown are both 30km from downtown does not mean anything. Blacktown would be like Finch in Toronto, whereas Oakville could be likened to the Blue Mountains. The Blue Mountains trains DO terminate at Central and do not stop at any but the biggest stations on the "urban" line from Emu Plains onwards. In fact the "yellow" line in Toronto is quite similar to the "yellow" line in Sydney, in that it passes through the City - Finch-Downtown-Downsview, Emu Plains-City-Berowra (although in Sydney most trains do not travel the entire distance just because nobody will go all that way anyway). It's just for convenience that the trains in Sydney run on the same lines as the trains out of Sydney, because they were never built underground.
---
A section of this alone would be interesting. Me being a fellow Hong Kong Australian, there's a massive difference between the MTR trains and CityRail.
Ronnknee 03:22, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Please sign your posts with four tildes, or register with a username. The correct term is "State-Owned Corporation". JRG 08:12, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Comparison Phrase

message: Is there a reference for this section? Otherwise, it sounds like someone's original research. 
Alex.tan 08:19, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Removed section. If someone can come up with a valid reference, please repost it back. Alex.tan 23:08, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The alternative proposal 

message: There seems to be debate over the proposed express route between Central and Parramatta. This was an actual proposal expressed by the Carr Government, and given the number of proposals they have made that won't get off the ground there is reason to doubt whether they are "proposals" as such, but the Government actually suggested this, so it still may go ahead. Given that proposals like this exist in other countries' transport systems (like some MRT lines in Singapore that have been proposed but are on land that hasn't even been reclaimed yet), I think this should stay.
For proof of this proposal, see:
*EcoTransit Press Release
*SMH Letters page - the day after the announcement - sorry, can't get the actual article
Or do a search for "Western FastRail" on Google.
This page needs a lot of work; we need to figure out a good way to put actual proposals that probably will go ahead or are going ahead (eg. Clearways, Harbour Rail Link, NW & SW rail links), and some more ambitious plans for the far future, like this, and the western metro lines suggested in the Christie Report. (JROBBO 09:10, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: those articles don't prove its a Government project. Professor Newman was removed from his post by the Minister. it doesn't get a mention at all in the Metro Strategy ] or the 2006 State Infrastructure Strategy which lists 10 year spending on big infrastructure.  Steven Fitter 13:44, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Western Fastrail 

message: I was wondering if there could be more details on the troubles? including the driver shortage, the new timetable, and the airport line fiasco.
As you can probably tell, I'm dissatisfied with CityRail, and have been ever since they cut my line entirely in off-peak hours. --Sumple 04:55, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: These would require a bit of research with newspaper archives, I would think. enochlau (talk) 13:18, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Current and recent problems 

message: I am interested in doing similar to this infobox for western / richmond / blue mountains lines but what colour scheme should I use?
Also - I'm not a "train" person. What is meant by "trainconnect" - I am guessing "Blacktown" = yes but say "Emu Plains" = no? is this "connect from limited stops to express" or is it "connect from suburban to countrylink"?
thanks
Bondi Junction                         	Bondi Junction
Eastern Suburbs Line                   	Eastern Suburbs Line
Station code                           	?
Suburb                                 	Bondi Junction
Street                                 	Grafton St
Distance from Central Station          	6.61 km
Served by suburban all stations trains 	Yes
Served by suburban limited stops trains	Yes
Served by Intercity trains             	No
Served by CountryLink trains           	No
Number of platforms                    	2
Platform arrangement                   	Island
Type of station                        	Underground
Ticket barriers                        	Yes
Train transfer                         	No
Bus transfer                           	Yes
Ferry transfer                         	No
Light rail transfer                    	No
Commuter parking                       	Yes
Disabled access                        	Yes
Public telephones                      	Yes
Public toilets                         	Yes
Staffed                                	Yes
Short platforms                        	No
Garrie 03:31, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  infobox for western line(s) 

message: We desperately need an update to the network map - the one here is awful. In fact, from the way I've now set it out, we should have two, one with the suburban lines, and one with the intercity lines. I can't draw so I'd love someone to do a decent job on this. Anyone? (JROBBO 12:54, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: New Map

message: *We need pictures of all the different types of trains - these would also go on the pages of C Set, RLS set (train), Endeavour, V Set (no article yet), Millennium train, K Set, Tangara (both G set and T set). For those who have no idea what these types of train are look at the CityRail Fleet page (click the link.) Get a good shot of the front of each train and maybe an inside (of a Millennium train maybe?)
::There's a media launch for the H set (Outer Suburban Car), Hunter Railcar (new type) and the refurbished XPT at Central station on Monday 24th of April - the sets will be there from about 8am till about 3pm. If anyone can take photos it would be a great opportunity to get some pictures for WP. (JROBBO 01:20, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I also agree, we need pictures of trains but also we need more pictures of stations to add to the tables next to each station page instead of the logo. I will see if I am able to get some but I won't be able to cater for every station, so if possible try to get some pictures of surrounding stations in your area. It will also be nice to try to get the patronage of every line and station if possible. Ziperingzap 08:50, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pictures of Trains Needed 

message: Shouldn't there be a common summary article about CityRail sets, and all existing pages named in a standard fashion e.g. by their letter codes or names e.g. V-Set (CityRail) (or DDIU (CityRail)), T-Set (CityRail) (or Tangara (CityRail), Endeavour (CityRail) etc? The current array is pretty messy and there is no table to link them all together as per the CityTrain, Connex Melbourne and other Australian systems. 
For a good example of such articles, see the Transperth B-series train or Walkers-AdTranz Interurban Multiple Unit.
Also, note the page CityRail DDIU is in serious need of work. SM247 20:33, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good idea - I think the "T set (CityRail)" is the best format, as doing something with "Sydney" on the end makes us split the trains with those on Intercity and Regional lines. I desperately need pictures of the different types of trains though - I now have an OK picture of a V-Set and ok picture of a T-Set, but C Set, K Set, 620/720, Hunter Railcar (new one), OSCAR, Endeavour, and G-Set (and all previous generations of trains like Tullochs, W Sets, M sets (the old ones) and so on) are all minus pictures. I'll start working on something soon. We do need a good summary on the main page though. (JROBBO 05:25, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have assembled a little template presently on the bottom of the page - I'm unsure exactly how to align it as I am not fluent in the markup lingo. I have also changed about the rollingstock pages to match, but most need substantial editing. Only the Tangara page is OK at the moment. What would be good would be an infobox with performance characteristics, as per the Perth A/B sets and the QR ICE/EMU/SMU/IMU articles. SM247 05:48, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

text: It should not be necessary to disambiguate "K set" for example to "K set (CityRail)". I've moved articles to conform with style conventions first, but I wanted to get some views before I move "X set (CityRail)" to "X set". Dysprosia 10:28, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I used capitals for 'set' because the CityRail site shows the terms as proper nouns, but it really doesn't matter I suppose. However, I think including (CityRail) gives some context e.g. List of British Rail classes. The term V Set of itself means little to somebody who doesn't already know to what it pertains. SM247 23:02, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Organisation of CityRail rollingstock articles 

message: Australians should know that Google maps is now available for Australia. However, I was looking at the intercity/regional lines on Google and I found that half of the stations are wrong! For example, from Maitland to Dungog, the only real station visible google maps is Telarah, and the rest of the line contains stations with names I've never heard of. What's happening here? 218.102.220.129 12:42, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Some of the stations aren't very much full fledged "stations". From memory, Wirragulla, for example, is basically a bare, very very small platform. It's possible you might just not be seeing them. Dysprosia 13:09, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Google Maps

message: It seems that CityRail has been put down as a metro in the list of rapid transit systems, but by definition CityRail wouldn't be a metro, even the suburban part due to the fact that it is not on separate tracks to the intercity, country and freight lines. Am I incorrect or is this a mistake? Ziperingzap 08:34, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The list of rapid transit systems says that CityRail is not a metro in the overseas sense of the word, but rather a hybrid system, of which some of it (the parts close to the City and the Eastern Suburbs line especially) are run with metro-like frequency. In that sense, CityRail is definitely like a metro, but in other senses it isn't. As for sharing tracks, there are metro-like systems in the world that share tracks with intercity trains (like Hong Kong's KCR line). I don't think we should be deleting it from that list. (JROBBO 14:17, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: CityRail a metro?

message: The colours for the line names, and the destinations for the different lines, have been set by CityRail's promotional material. If you are the unregistered user that keeps changing them, please desist. Also, stop adding duplicate information. (JROBBO 04:30, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I checked the CityRail map and found that some of the colours we were using were incorrect: Here's the list of the correct ones in hexadecimal format:
===Suburban lines===
*Eastern Suburbs & Illawarra Line: #0072C6
*Bankstown Line: #FF7800
*Inner West Line: #8D80B8
*Cumberland Line: #CC00A0
*Airport & East Hills Line: #339E35
*South Line: #90CEF2
*North Shore and Western Lines: #FCB514
*Northern Line: #CE1126
*Carlingford Line: #002B7F
*Olympic Park Sprint and special event services: #EEEEEE
===Intercity lines===
*South Coast Line: #0072C6
*Southern Highlands Line: #339E35
*Blue Mountains Line: #FCB514
*Newcastle and Central Coast Line: #CE1126
===Regional line===
*Hunter Line: #6D28AA
I think thet User:218.214.62.53 was trying to correct the colours. Harryboyles 12:17, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

text: When you do change the colours, use the template so it's easier to edit the colours in the future. Harryboyles 08:49, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Line name colours

message: *Hunter Line: #6D28AA
I think thet User:218.214.62.53 was trying to correct the colours. Harryboyles 12:17, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: When you do change the colours, use the template so it's easier to edit the colours in the future. Harryboyles 08:49, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Regional line

message: A number of CityRail-related train articles talk about "Sector 2" and "Sector 3" etc. What are these sectors? --Sumple (Talk) 04:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a group of lines, based around one of the train depots. As far as I know, the designation is used internally by Cityrail (and with IPART etc) as a way of splitting the network into chunks that are bigger than individual lines but smaller than the entire network. I've never seen them mentioned in documents intended for the general public, such as timetables or newspaper articles. -- Mako 05:54, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Before the closure of Punchbowl MC and the introduction of the G sets, the sectors were much more clearly demarcated than they are now. Quaidy 00:36, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  What's a sector? 

message: There weren't enough references. mrholybrain 13:00, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I notice that there are few sections with 0 - 1 reference. Will do my best to find additional references and hopefully will renominate this article by late September. 
===Areas that need proper referencing===
*History 50% 
*Changes to Cityrail 
===Rewording/phrasing===
*Network overview (Proper explanation required instead of the use of examples) 
*Passenger Information Systems (As per above) 
YuMaNuMa (talk) 06:27, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: GA Rejection

message: *Network overview (Proper explanation required instead of the use of examples) 
*Passenger Information Systems (As per above) 
YuMaNuMa (talk) 06:27, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Rewording/phrasing

message: Will be renominating the article for Good Article review in 24 hours from now. If there is any outstanding issue with the article please comment under this before the 24 hours. I feel that the article is worthy of renomination. The history section can probably be forgiven as information as such may be difficult to obtain and only a few sources have been found so far but that's better than nothing!YuMaNuMa (talk) 13:15, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Renomination Ready

message: This article is about the services provided as well as the agency providing them. Please don't delete all information about what services are provided where, and so on. JROBBO 22:49, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It still means that we should have some information on this page - have a look at MTR, London Underground and Singapore MRT, all Featured Articles which have subsidiary articles yet provide substantial introductions to each section. I agree that the article needs to be split off, but the article should still be informative in itself without having to link to the other pages. JROBBO 01:17, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  This Article 

message: Taking a photo of a work protected by copyright is the same as scanning a work protected by copyright. Try taking a picture of a ticket barrier or at least a person holding a ticket. In any case, provided I haven't stuffed up the procedure, we'll have an answer on the copyvio question in however long that normally takes. The salient features of the ticket (magnetic stripe, what's printed on it by the TVM) are on the AFCS page; if you think readers need to know about any of the other visual elements, add it to the text. Joestella 09:37, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's not the point. Pictures are there to add to the article - they don't have to provide extra information, they can simply illustrate the information. That was what this one did. And stop alluding to the AFCS page - the CityRail tickets may be part of the same scheme, but they are different tickets and have different pricing, etc.; they can have their own information and picture; that's not disallowed. JROBBO 13:41, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The fact that a picture is on the other article is beside the point. Copyright (an issue that applies to both pictures), however, isn't. Joestella is right about this, and they probably would have to be considered fair use, but easily justified as fair use because any reproduction of them would be in the same situation. JPD (talk) 19:55, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  You have to consider what proportion the copyrighted work is. For example, your own photograph of some scenery with a small Coke billboard in the background is probably your own copyright. enochlau (talk) 03:45, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fair use 

message: Is there any way to find out the usage at each railway station? Simply south 14:22, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortunately not, unless you email CityRail and ask for each the figures, which isn't a reliable source. JRG 08:17, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Sure, but I'm thinking that if you can get hold of such figures, it's better than having no figures at all? Not that I'd trust it, because there's no way CityRail can measure usage accurately at stations without ticket barriers. enochlau (talk) 22:46, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ticket sales at each station. At least this is what is used in the UK. Simply south 23:07, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why don't you email CityRail through their feedback page and ask for the figures? They have given me stuff like that before. JRG 00:02, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Usage 

message: Just reading this article I've noticed that it fails to mention many of the controversies of cityrail, accusations of sexual harrassment within its staff, chronicle delays, major incidents (such as the breakdown in transport following Queen Mary II etc). When it does mention criticism of CityRail it almost invariably provies (and in many cases gives emphasis to) a counterargument, particularly when the section dedicated to criticism is called "Challenges" and portrays CityRail as being able to best them in all situations.
The way I see it the article reads more as a commercial advertisement, fails to mention many controversial issues surrounding CityRail, and continually praises the corporation through colourful language. This may be just me, but at least add in information about accusations relating to sexism and harrassment in the working culture, public scrutiny of services etc
@ JRG: my apologies for not signing the statement last time, I did not have a regular account and (given this may be more than a minor edit) was trying to borrow my brother's, so I could sign it later. Although I have not made major contributions I have made many minor edits and am well acquainted with the way of wikipedia, and this article clearly, given both this knowledge and the various criticism that CityRail has faced, is biased towards painting the corporation in a positive light. I would appreciate it if you replied instead of deleting under the false presumption of vandalism, and if others who are not regular editors of this article could have their say
Seagull landbird 09:58, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The article isn't biased deliberately, it's just incomplete. I'm well aware of the problems with the article, and you as another user are very welcome to add things in to outline the problems with the network - so long as they are sourced - we're not having comments, good or bad, about the supposed working culture that are mere rumours or insider information - see WP:RS. There's no point in complaining about the article if you're not going to contribute yourself. I'm sorry about the vandalism comment— I removed it because you had added extra stuff to the bottom of the article which I thought was someone playing around with the page, and had added the talk rationale as an excuse. I've removed the POV tag as the omission of the information you want is not deliberate.JRG 10:58, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Biased Viewpoint

message: I have attempted to reorganise external links to give emphasis to primary sources,  "private" or "personal webpage" links should be placed last.61.88.130.61 00:27, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: External Links

message: This article appears to be missing (daily/annual) patronage figures. I'd have thought these essential for an encyclopaedia article. Can someone attend to this? - Aucitypops (talk) 04:52, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Patronage? 

message: There is no mention of frequencies for the services mentioned. Do they run once every hour? Are there easy off-peak/on-peak/weekend distinctions, or would those be too hard to describe? Classical geographer (talk) 09:32, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Freqencies? 

message: I Have Noted that the fares stated there are not of the new fare structure   There fore i am removing the old fares User talk:Matt037291 04:57, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  My Zone Fares  

message: The ridership information on the Cityrail page is outdated. I don't think that figure has changed since early 2006. In 5 years Sydney's population increased by 400,000 people most this were migrates who live in train accessible suburbs. For now I'm going tag it as outdated info. YuMaNuMa (talk) 12:20, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ridership 

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thread_title: File:CityRail indicator board.JPG Nominated for speedy Deletion

message: Having travelled extensively on both CitiRail and the Hong Kong MTR, the most obvious difference between them is that the MTR is miniscule in terms of number of networks, number of lines, number of stations; and even in peak hours nearly empty of passengers. I mean that in comparative, not absolute terms. So is it really fair to compare CityRail's performance to MTR's?
Old_Wombat (talk) 10:49, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Performance" section - what is fair? What is not? 

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thread_title: File:Cityrail ticket.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: I believe the whole point I initiated this section, along with several images was to inform people of the many types that exists. Removing them seems to be somewhat misinforming and creates an illusion that there is only one "newest" type.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Wykymania (talk • contribs) 
:One image is sufficient enough to support the text, there is no intention of misinformation as the prose well and truly mentions the variety of boards. Adding more images would be redundant and defeating the purpose of the prose which is also here to inform. YuMaNuMa   Talk Contributions  01:43, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Indicator Boards 

message: Since this stretch of line is now in operation, I think this map should be updated to reflect that. As my hamfisted efforts would make an utter shambles of this file, would someone else care to take on the task? Kelisi (talk) 06:09, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree, but I can't draw either. Anon2468 (talk) 00:34, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I've updated a new version, removing the 'under construction' text. Originally I thought I'd have to change the line itself, but the dotted line means it's underground, not under construction. Harryboyles 08:26, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Epping-Chatswood link 

message: I would like to propose the restoration of the original logo of CityRail used prior to 2010. It is clearly the most well-known logo and it is still displayed on most stations. Since the current logo is no longer in use either, I don't see any need to maintain the most recent edition. --DilatoryRevolution (talk) 13:00, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Though it wasn't the final logo used, I've restored the 2010 logo and moved the older logo (can't find the year the blurred version was used). Bidgee (talk) 11:47, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I reject the idea that simply because it is the last, it is the most appropriate. The capital of the Roman Empire is not listed as Soissons. The map of the Ottoman Empire used doesn't show the declining state that signed the Treaty of Sèvres. The primary logo should be one that embodies the topic. The final one was used for less than three years and does not embody CityRail. --DilatoryRevolution (talk) 11:58, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

text: Perhaps a better example is the Sydney Monorail, which was known as the Metro Monorail during its final years but its page was restored to its more common name after its closure. After the monorail closed, neither name could be considered current and the page was moved to the more commonly-known name. The same principle applies here. Neither logo is currently in use, so the primary logo should be the one with which the organization was primarily associated. As stated above, the old logo was also used for the majority of the existence of CityRail, which makes it a greater representation of the organization as an historical department. --DilatoryRevolution (talk) 02:06, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Logo 

message: I propose that Sydney Trains be merged into CityRail. Actually, they are the same coporate. Sydney Trains is just the new trade mark of CityRail. --Coekon (talk) 08:02, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I've undone this proposal, CityRail no longer exists as a government entity. You seem to be confusing CityRail with RailCorp, of which Sydney Trains and NSW TrainLink are subsidiaries. As of 1 July 2013, CityRail no longer exists. James (T • C) • 7:46pm • 08:46, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  Most of the article applies to Sydney Trains, perhaps the historical CityRail aspects should be moved to Railways in Sydney.MrHarper (talk) 10:39, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified