Talk:Science in the medieval Islamic world

message: Shouldn't the beginning have citations?
Riverblade (talk) 20:12, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  No, Wikipedia articles normally do not cite the lead section, as it is purely a summary of the fully-cited text that follows, i.e. any citations would only repeat those given further down. By the same token, it is a mistake to introduce "new" material or citations into the lead. Hope this helps. Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:15, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations 

message: This is becasue of there culture they need to learn about the world and god  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.60.125.226 (talk) 17:57, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Medieval Muslim societies were pioneers in science and philosophy, but 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) ~ Aseleste (t, e | c, l) 17:53, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Science in the medieval Islamic world →  – "Medieval Islamic world is less common than Islamic Golden Age and it's even a redirect to the latter. Maudslay II (talk) 15:10, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 10 April 2021 

message: There is a very fishy source & edit in the article. 
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*Notability: self-published book by author with no apparent academic vita to recommend him as an authority on this topic, who writes elsewhere in this book about the "staged terror attacks of 9/11" blaming them on a Western conspiracy against Muslims. It's far beyond the pale.
*We have: "Saliba (source X) and Hobson (source Y) hold that a Muslim scientific revolution occurred during the Middle Ages.(source Z = book by Mr Jan)" This means that the book by Mr Jan is offered as the source for the fact that Saliba, Hobson, or both "hold that...", which makes no sense: what Saliba & Hobson say must be supported by sorces X and Y, otherwise why would they be there, just to confirm the spelling of the names? The edit was made here, by Jagged 85, who stopped editing 9 years ago. 19 Oct 2007 is over 13 years ago, editing was different back then, but once we clarify what sources X & Y are saying, Mr Jan's book must be removed as it cannot be considered RS. Arminden (talk) 00:35, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Removed. But problem not fully solved: Salima only supports claim of "revolution" in, or based on, astronomy, and Hobson p. 178 is not accessible online. Claim remains insufficiently supported once Jan is out. Arminden (talk) 01:01, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem is now solved by my removal (see below) of the paragraph in which these undue claims appeared. ☿ Apaugasma (talk ☉) 17:18, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Non-reliable source (RS) must be removed 

message: Islamic sciences currently redirects to this page. Islamic science is a subject which is still studied. It may have been developed in medieval times, but most sciences were developed in historic times. Islamic science also includes discussion on new technologies and new scientific discoveries in relation to Islam. This current page name and the redirect label Islamic science as a thing of the past. When Islamic scholars talk to us about how the internet and social networking is effecting our behaviours and beliefs as Muslims, that is an example of Islamic science applied to new technologies. The page on Physics covers modern physics too, so the page on Islamic sciences be relegated to the past? There are contemporary Islamic discussions on scientific developments which will not be included in this page because of it's page name, for example, 'are the Covid-19 vaccines halal?'. Because of the redirect on 'Islamic sciences' they will also not be included there, nor will the achievements of contemporary Islamic scientists.Amirah talk 11:53, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: This page deals not with science itself, but with the history of science. The medieval Islamic world plays a major role in that history (see also the problematically similar page Islamic Golden Age), and this is the reason why we have an article about it. Islamic sciences should indeed not redirect to this page, because it can also refer to contemporary Muslim scholarship (ʿulūm al-dīn). I have therefore changed the target of the redirect to Muslim scholarship, a disambiguation page pointing to, a.o., Islamic studies, Ulama, and several lists of Muslims scholars. Since 'Islamic sciences' also sometimes refers to medieval science, I have also added a link to this page to the disambiguation page. ☿ Apaugasma (talk ☉) 12:39, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you,  I believe that is a step in the right direction. I have also added the maintenance category 'Redirects with possibilities' is it may later be converted to a seperate an article. Please also see discussions on Islamic Studies - Talk - Umbrella term and Move request List of contemporary Muslim scholars of Islam. Amirah talk 12:44, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page move to Islamic sciences 

message: The dichotomy in the first paragraph of the 'Significance' section (and repeated in the lead) between a so-called 'traditionalist' view and a 'revisionist' view appears to be based on original research, and does not at all reflect the mainstream view among current historians of science. In reality, the 'traditionalist' view (the 19th-century view that the Islamic world mainly 'preserved' knowledge, but contributed very little or nothing to it) is all but completely abandoned, and should only still be mentioned in the context of a history of the history of science. What is here called the 'revisionist' view (that a Muslim scientific revolution occurred during the Middle Ages), on the other hand, is a tiny minority or even a fringe view, held only by a very small amount of historians such as Ahmad Y. al-Hassan (whose scholarship is of a rather questionable quality; see, e.g., the review by Sonja Brentjes here, or the one by Gabriele Ferrario here).
The actual mainstream view is the one reported by McClellan & Dorn in the third paragraph and by Will Durant and Bernard Lewis in the last sentence of the second paragraph: medieval Islamic science not only preserved but built upon Hellenistic and Indo-Persian achievements, making steady and often important contributions throughout the centuries, but was never marked by a paradigm shift as revolutionary as the one which would later occur in 17th-century Europe.
I propose to remove the first paragraph of the 'Significance' section as both original research and putting undue weight on outdated or fringe views, and to remove the first part of the second paragraph (all except the last sentence) as putting undue weight on minority views. We can just keep the rest, which gives a short but accurate overview, although I would remove the references to Fielding H. Garrison (who lived 1870–1935 and is thus quite out of date) and to Seyyed Hossein Nasr (who belongs to the pro-fringe Traditionalist School).
The last paragraph of the lead can for now simply be replaced by 
Since I suspect this proposal may be controversial, I'm putting it up for discussion on the talk page first. ☿ Apaugasma (talk ☉) 19:19, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Since there has not been a reply in three days, I have gone on and implemented the proposed change. Of course, the section should be expanded again with material that does represent the mainstream view. I'm somewhat unhappy with the current last sentence, : precisely because comparisons with the scientific revolution of the 17th century are so inapt, it feels jarring to introduce this issue in this way at the very end of the article. But I trust this will be solved by a future rewrite of the section. ☿ Apaugasma (talk ☉) 16:04, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: This is going for a GAR - what a shabby article! TrangaBellam (talk) 19:12, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Significance section: undue emphasis on extreme views held only by a small minority today 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion