Wikipedia talk:WikiProject New York City Public Transportation/Archive 4

message: This only peripherally relates to this project, but members might be interested anyway; I've created list of streetcar lines in Queens. I've also been working on Long Island Rail Road and many of its related articles, including the companies that became part of the subway. --NE2 14:34, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a pretty cool list. It's fascinating to see how some of the current bus routes follow old streetcar lines. That explains some of the … interesting routes. =) Larry V (talk | contribs) 19:06, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Even in Brooklyn, where the network was much denser, there are a surprising number of lines that have stayed very similar; see Talk:List of streetcar lines in Brooklyn. The first horse car line in the city, the Myrtle Avenue Line, is now the B54 bus, for example. --NE2 19:13, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's interesting to think about how the history of surface transit has effect even today. It's easy to look at subways and rail and see how modern services reflect old ones, but one would think that something as seemingly ephemeral as streetcar routes would fade away after they closed. But resources like these lists make it clear that modern surface transit is just as connected to its past as rail transit is. Larry V (talk | contribs) 19:22, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[List of streetcar lines in Queens]]

message: Okay, I think I got a little too far. I am just going to fess up, and come out clean and put an end to this feud. I want to apologize to the WikiProject for my behavior. I see that because of my new proposal for the table I don't want any changes done to it. And I still don't want any changes done to it, but if I get outvoted, I'll have to deal with it, because that's how consensus works. We have a discussion to explain our ideas and opinions. Failure for me to express my ideas and opinions in a civil manner resulted in where we are now; fighting and everyone getting hyped up. So, first, I want to apologize to PCH for making personal attacks, and I want to apologize to Larry for failing to assume good faith in his part. I want to continue to play a part in this WikiProject, and I hope everyone can seek to forgive my behavior.
Now, I'd like to explain my opinion for the format that Larry has made:
*First, putting the SSI icons after the name is probably not the best way to go; it should go before the name, as per Gimmetrow. Look at the other tables that haven't been changed yet. The ADA icon is before the name. What's wrong with putting the SSIs in front of the station name? The station name should dominate the row, but as seen on the MTA's and the other service tables, changed and unchanged, the icon row is so narrow that it doesn't matter.
*I guess I don't have any objections to making the ADA icon have its own row. But trying to follow the MTA's format made me fail to assume good faith in Larry's partaking, so sorry about that, Larry.
*As for showing the LIRR's and MNRR's branches/main lines, I don't have any objections to that, either. Once again, however, trying to follow the MTA's format made me fail to assume good faith for Larry, so excuse me for that again, Larry.
*Letters before numbers, I don't see any major issue on that, so whatever y'all decide on with this issue is fine with me.
So, as per the above, the table headers should be the SSIs, followed by the station names, the ADA icon column, then subway transfers and connections.
That said, those are my opinions, and I'm sorry if I made others uncomfortable/offended, and I hope we can still work together, and I hope I can still play a valuable part of the team. --Imdanumber1 ( Talk | contribs) 06:44, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's all right, we all lose our cool once in a while. It's understandable to be resistant when people make suggestions to your ideas, but after a while you'll see that a lot of their suggestions were really good. No hard feelings. About the table: Frankly, I'd prefer to keep the service icons first too. But keep Wikipedia:Accessibility in mind. Using Mac OS X Speech on the table, this is what I hear: "Stops all times, stops rush hours in peak direction only, Flushing Main Street, Handicap/disabled access, Q48 to LaGuardia Airport, LIRR, stops all times, stops rush hours in peak direction only, Willets Point Shea Stadium, stops all times, 111th Street, Q48 to LaGuardia Airport". If I were listening to that without seeing the table, I'd think that each "row" started with the station name, and Shea Stadium would end up serving only local trains at all times. Larry V (talk | contribs) 07:02, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

text: By the way, the proposed table is now at User:Larry V/Subway test table. Larry V (talk | contribs) 07:03, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brief apology 

message: Does anyone here have a list of which of the ex-BMT streetcar lines were operated by each company:
*Brooklyn, Queens County and Suburban Railroad
*Nassau Electric Railroad
*Brooklyn Heights Railroad
*Coney Island and Brooklyn Railroad
*South Brooklyn Railway
Thank you for any help. --NE2 19:20, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ex-BMT streetcar origins?

message: If anyone else is interested in the history of the Brooklyn streetcars, I've posted a list from an 1874 Brooklyn street directory at the bottom of Talk:List of streetcar lines in Brooklyn. --NE2 02:05, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Great list. Needs a little cleanup, but very thorough. Larry V (talk | contribs) 05:24, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually I did that as an exact transcription; a list from a specific time wouldn't be in an article. It's more of a reference for articles about the lines. --NE2 05:26, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Early Brooklyn streetcars

message: I just recently discovered this template. I see it is for the article on the  line, however, it is currently being unused. I hope that with some revamping, it's possible that this template, as well as others, can be reinstated. I also found some for the ,  and . Any opinions on what to do with them? --Imdanumber1 ( Talk | contribs) 08:24, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: These templates were recently created, but they were never put into the articles. --Imdanumber1 ( Talk | contribs) 08:26, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

text: They seem a little too list-y for me. I dislike those boxes at the ends of articles in general; they seem somewhat obtrusive and often unnecessary, and multiple ones are even worse. I find them useful only when they connect articles that are related but aren't shown together anywhere else. For instance, the links in  are certainly related, but nowhere else are they all together. On the other hand, each service article (xx (New York City Subway service)) already has a list of its stations. I think the templates would be pretty redundant. Larry V (talk | contribs) 07:33, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

text: That's what I was thinking, and I still don't like the idea. Each station article should already have a  at its end. Adding another "box" of that sort would be too obtrusive and unwieldy. A list of other stations on the service could always be accessed by clicking the link to that service, and a list of other stations on the physical line could be accessed through a link to the line. If you want to add a navbox for the service, then there really should be one for the physical line as well, and then the whole thing starts getting out of control. In addition, I've never seen station articles for any other transit system use boxes for lists of stations. One could suggest that breaking the mold is a good thing, but in this case I think there is good reason to avoid this template. Larry V (talk | contribs) 19:57, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Why should every article have a Template:NYCS navbox at the end? I've only been putting boxes like that on articles that are actually linked from the box; from station articles, you can go to any of several larger articles to reach the ones in that box. Do other people find it useful? --NE2 03:32, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Don't forget the tables, which will get overhauled by next year (which is in two days)! As well as the infoboxes.--Imdanumber1 ( Talk | contribs) 02:35, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

text: New table has been inserted into 7 (New York City Subway service), including special tags and other accessories. Larry V (talk | contribs) 07:14, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Cool, I'll add them when I have the time. --Imdanumber1 ( Talk | contribs) 01:42, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Template:NYSubway4]] 

message: Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention.  Badbilltucker 16:14, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd rather write articles. --NE2 19:47, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia Day Awards 

message: I've written articles for six of the former north-south streetcar lines in Manhattan: :Category:Streetcars in Manhattan. I'm considering writing one on the Fifth Avenue Line too, the Fifth Avenue Coach Company's first bus line, started in 1886; it might be best to redirect to the company (which operated other lines later) for now though. What do you think - are long-lasting bus routes notable enough for their own article? --NE2 03:37, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: More streetcars