Talk:Buckminster Fuller

message: Not really sure if this should go in the talk page, but the first paragraph of the biography is not cited. I didn't want to delete it, but it has some trivia-like statements that could easily be inventions of a creative Wikipedia editor.    — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.83.207.60 (talk) 06:25, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: First paragraph of Biography

message: I have removed the sentence 'Fuller considered information 'negative-entropic' from the biography section. The content is true, but it needs elaboration. I have changed the section heading 'Neologisms' to 'Use of Language and Neologisms' because I feel it is important to describe and give examples of Fuller's writing style. The new text is certainly not perfect and neither is the referencing. There are quotes which I feel are very helpful to the reader and it would be gret if there was a way to link to those quotes. Thanks to all for editing / sharing. - Dobtoronto, October 31st 2006
Under the heading Geodesic Dome, the section "... non-believers, Fuller hung from the structure’s framework several students who had helped him build it." should be re-written. The implication is that he hung students, literally, which obviously isn't true.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.104.73.235 (talk) 23:32, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Use of Language and Neologisms

message: I found this picture of Buckmintser Fuller. (http://img.timeinc.net/time/magazine/archive/covers/1964/1101640110_400.jpg) Is this usable?
:That's the Time magazine version of his commemorative stamp. A link to info about the stamp is in the external links but I would like to see a mention of the stamp with a thumbnail at the tail of the bio. It's the decent thing to do. • Q^#o • 17:02, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Commemorative stamp]]

message: No mention whatsoever about buckyballs/ buckminster fullerene. -- Jdedmond 20:35, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Buckminster Fullerene

message: <I>His first "continuous tension – discontinuous compression" geodesic dome (full sphere in this case) was constructed at the University of Oregon Architecture School in 1959 with the help of students. (Ref: The Dymaxion World of Buckminster Fuller .) These continuous tension – discontinuous compression structures featured single force compression members (no flexure or bending moments) that did not touch each other and were 'suspended' by the tensional members.</I>
What is meant by continuous tension discontinuous compression should be explained. I'd rewrite this if I had any idea what it was trying to say. Maybe a diagram would help? What does it mean they are suspended, they're not actually attached? How can the compression members not touch? What is attached to what?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.150.235.107 (talk) 04:00, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: continuous tension discontinuous compression

message: Their construction is based on extending some basic principles to build simple "tensegrity" structures (tetrahedron, octahedron, and the closest packing of spheres), making them lightweight and stable</I>
The parenthetical remark at first seems to be a list of examples of tensegrity structures, then tosses in the bit about "closest packing of spheres". This is confusing, since I doubt that "closest packing of spheres" is an example of a tensegrity structure. I get almost a whiff of what the sentence is intended to convey, maybe that sphere packing is one of the basic principles used.. But since I came here knowing little about Fuller or geodesic domes, I hesitate to swap my wild guess for this incomprehensible sentence. Help me!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.150.235.107 (talk) 04:28, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I remember the original Earth Day, in Manhattan. I'd been recruited to tie-dye banners to hang from the tall street lamps on Fifth Avenue. Somebody said that we were right upstairs from the headquarters of "Rat", the underground newspaper where the "mad bomber" sent letters predicting where the next bomb would explode. Then, when the day arrived, Bucky came to Columbia to address about 150 people on the concept of spaceship earth. He had peculiar ideas about the filling of space. He argued that using cubes and cubic units to measure space was illogical. I didn't get it. He proposed using another space-filling solid (with square and triangular faces) as a fundamental unit for conceptualizing volume. On the subject of space-filling spheres, he pointed out that a circle could be surrounded by six congruent circles, and they'd all touch their neighbors, so one layer of spheres is perfect, in a way. If you put an identical layer of spheres on top of it, they'd fall into depressions in the first layer, and that would leave out a minimum of volume outside the spheres, or a maximum within them. But when you attempt to add a third layer, things get interesting, because you can place it so the spheres are directly above the ones on the first layer, or you can place it another way. So there's no unique, perfect way to do it. Either way is perfect. [I used to be "Unfree", but I lost my password.] 172.56.26.91 (talk) 09:32, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: closest packing of spheres

message: I added the 'fan-site' template because the article reads like something a Buckminster Fuller museum tour guide might say to museum-goers. The article needs to be rewritten with an eye towards sobriety.
J.R. Hercules 02:09, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Article is written in the tone of a fan-site

message: What was the point of deleting the article's sections on Fuller's  Practical Achievements and Major Projects?
I moved it to the talk section to ask a question. They are applications of the geodesic dome, and probably should be on that page. If they have to be on this page, can it be a quick paragraph or something? Ieashu (talk) 15:43, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Why deletion of whole sections??

message: The picture of Fuller provided is not the one most people are familiar with (check Google image search to confirm this). In addition, it was taken before he had done anything interesting. I recommend the picture at 
http://bfi.org/our_programs/who_is_buckminster_fuller
It's well-known and provided by the Buckminster Fuller Institute. I would change it right now, but I wonder if there might be copyright questions. Sonicsuns 05:07, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right that copyright is the problem. The current one is Free, but no license is listed for that image and so we must assume it is proprietary and non-Free. Policy/guideline is that removing Free images in favor of non-Free images is something that just shouldn't happen. --Gwern  (contribs) 22:00 17 July 2007 (GMT)
He is hot in that picture tho!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.140.165.216 (talk) 17:35, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Image

message: Taken from the biography secion:
"In 1927 at the age of 32, bankrupt and jobless, living in inferior housing in Chicago, Illinois, Fuller lost his young daughter Alexandra to complications from polio and spinal meningitis. He felt responsible, and this drove him to drink and to the verge of suicide. At the last moment he decided instead to embark on "an experiment, to find what a single individual can contribute to changing the world and benefiting all humanity."
Alexander Graham Bell: actual inventor of the geodesic formula, and physical creation. Bell worked with many geodesic forms and creations, and is the man who first discoverd and developed the physical geodesic shape. Fulled has fully succumbed to the great inventors original position. Bell, as scientisits are aware was a man of vast discovery, creation and invention. Fuller developed the common structural form used for houses and such.
Fuller accepted a position at a small college in North Carolina, Black Mountain College. There, with the support of a group of professors and students, he began work on the project that would make him famous and revolutionize the field of engineering, the geodesic dome. In 1949, he erected the world’s first geodesic dome..." 
Just pointing this out.
neckface 63.70.91.229 20:25, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Non Sequitors/Strange paragraph about Graham Bell

message: Hi I don't actually know how to do this, but under the Dymaxion House section, you mention how there is one on display at the Henry Ford Museum. You should probably have a link to that page.  69.141.55.59 22:48, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Henry Ford link

message: I removed the reference to the word debunked as a Fuller coinage. This is contradicted by the OED, which assigns the word to W.E. Woodward, 1923, in the book "Bunk," and also by Cassels dictionary http://books.google.com/books?id=YzG9fPXE9AMC&pg=PA41&lpg=PA41&dq=%22William+E+Woodward%22+bunk&source=web&ots=BAKPV1bdA6&sig=CwJOCp_I0pBNbp7Gg-RMMUeG2N4&hl=en - which discusses the word origin in terms of a criticism of Henry Ford, who said, "History is more or less bunk.
In the Fuller archives at http://archives.lib.siu.edu/search.php?creatorid=8
it states "The term debunked is often contradicted to be William Woodward’s invention in 1923, rather than Fuller’s later version in 1927."  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.20.131.50 (talk) 20:45, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Debunked

message: There's little discussion in this article about Buckminster Fuller's work in the wider context. 
For example: what geodesic domes were in use before Fuller, can it be argued he invented them, what influence did this have on architecture, in which contexts, who upon. Who were his critics, what effect did he have on larger society, what is his legacy?
I'm afraid that this whole article reads like - and is - an idolisation of Fuller with zero critical content, a biased point of view and no discussion of his work in the wider context. Fuller (I am told by the article) wanted to change the path of humanity. Well, did he succeed? To what degree? How? Who with? Why?
This article is seems obviously very, very heavily watched and moderated by those in charge of the Buckminster Fuller Institute, and is in essence a de-facto homepage for their institute. It seems like they wish to create an article that's rose tinted and puts Fuller on a pedestal. I think many of us, though, would like to create an article that tells a whole, critical and useful story about Fuller.
78.86.149.141 (talk) 15:14, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fuller in Context, and Bias

message: The article claims that a "Fantasy Entertainment Complex" on "Kyosho Isle" in Japan, measuring 216 m, is the world's largest geodesic dome.  The island of Kyushu indeed has the world's largest dome (at one point), the now closed Seagaia Ocean Dome, but it's 300x100x38m and, being elongated in shape, is not a pure geodesic dome.  Should it be removed from this list, or at least tagged with a disclaimer? Jpatokal (talk) 04:28, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for making this connection.  I have updated the list, which has been moved to Geodesic dome.  --Lasunncty (talk) 12:26, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Largest dome

message: I'm including the topics together because they're both mine and to save space.  I would like to add a reference to Fuller's Involvment in the made for TV Earth II, which features the Dymaxion map, in which Fuller was given credit as "Technical Advisor for Earth" (although I expect they meant "Earth II").  Anyway, his influence on the political and social landscape of the show are indelible.  I'm just not sure which section of the article it should go in.
Also, I think that the Climatron, in the St. Louis Arboretum, deserves a mention, as a significant dome, and one designed by Fuller himself, and will so add it if noone objects.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.243.181.167 (talk) 22:35, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Earth II and Climatron

message: The history jumps from 1930's to 1948 with occasional mention on his WW2 service?
Is the omission intentional, or has it been purged by vandals and no one noticed?
--194.197.79.18 (talk) 10:24, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Is there an intentional gap in the history for World War 2?

message: The text introducing the excerpt on cable intercepts makes does not follow. Is this meant to imply he came upon the idea from Bauersfeld from cable intercepts? If so, this implication is not documented and the text makes no sense anyway. I've been bold and removed it for the time being, perhaps someone can make this point more clearly and with a source...? -Reagle (talk) 14:57, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion of dome, cable intercepts, and Bauersfeld

message: Not everything that looks like a dome is necessarily geodesic. Fuller's principles about geodesic lines included specific circles of struts similar to the classical arch for maximum strength. If you look at plans for real Fuller domes, you might be surprised how many different lengths of the struts are used to channel the structural forces in an optimized way.
I haven't yet found out about the Bauersfeld dome, and I can't tell about the rotating animation, but I suspect that both are built in a more economic way, with as little as possible different strut lengths.
(Also, as I understood it, the concept of "geodesic" only makes sense in relation to gravity, so a ball spinning in space might be rather pointless.) Similarly that Kyushu dome mentioned above could be something else. I don't know about that.
The biggest geodesic dome was a railway tank car servicing depot in the southern US IIRC. I'll have to look it up again before I can go into more details. 
Eden Project is obviously not geodesic: If you trace a line of struts you can't find a single great-circle. I also suspect, that all struts are the same length in any given dome.
Don't understand me wrong: I'm not a "Fuller was the biggest genius ever" fanboy, and I also love Eden Project - but I am an engineer, and I'm trying to get the technical details unmuddled. --BjKa (talk) 14:10, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: A geodesic is a "straightest" possible path in a curved space; on a sphere, a geodesic is a great circle.  Nothing to do with gravity, unless we're talking about general relativity (which describes gravity as a curvature of spacetime). —Tamfang (talk) 07:57, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Geodesic - or Not 

message: The article says he was bankrupt at 32, but where's the proof that he actually filed for bankruptcy protection? This "bankrupt" claim in Wikipedia has found its way all across the Internet and elsewhere, so don't rely on a circular reference. Being extremely poor or nearly bankrupt is likely more accurate. Here is a high quality reference from The New Yorker magazine, June 9, 2008 http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/06/09/080609fa_fact_kolbert: {{Quote| During the First World War, Fuller married Anne Hewlett, the daughter of a prominent architect, and when the war was over he started a business with his father-in-law, manufacturing bricks out of wood shavings. Despite the general prosperity of the period, the company struggled and, in 1927, nearly bankrupt, it was bought out. At just about the same time, Anne gave birth to a daughter. With no job and a new baby to support, Fuller became depressed. I would like to suggest that regular editors here should consider revising the description to "nearly bankrupt" in the absence of proof with a year. 5Q5 (talk) 15:06, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Here is a description in his own words --Nowa (talk) 13:30, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where's the proof of bankruptcy? 

message: I've always thought Buckminster Fuller's idea of individualized two way TV was about the clearest vision of the internet from the 60's.
:“...with a few high masts...the entire community could be 'hooked up'...with beam casting you will be able to send individualized messages to each of those houses...it works in both directions....the receiving individual can beam back 'I don't like it'...constant referendum of democracy will be manifest....it is also possible...to send out many different programs simultaneously...children will be able to look up any kind of information they want....The answers to their questions and probing will be the best information that is available up to that minute in history”  Education Automation 1962
Does anyone know of any reliable secondary sources that make a similar observation?--Nowa (talk) 15:39, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: To me, this suggests the idea of cellphones, more than the Internet. The Internet doesn't depend on towers, but the interconnectivity of cellphones does. [formerly "Unfree"] 172.56.27.67 (talk) 10:01, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Bucky vision of the Internet

message: If you look at the Leon Russel record, Leon Russell and the Shelter People, the liner notes say rather cryptically, "Dear Friends: Here are some better words. -- Find out all you can about Buckminster Fuller Love Leon."
--75.94.221.254 (talk) 02:55, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  This would go in the Influences section, but I don't know how to source it. 

message: Other articles in Wikipedia, including the article on Walther Bauersfeld and the
Geodesic dome article itself attribute the invention of the geodesic dome to Bauersfeld, more than twenty years before Buckminster Fuller popularized it. I changed the text to say that Fuller popularized the geodesic dome rather than inventing it based on this. It's likely that Fuller was not aware of Bauersfeld's work and thus reinvented it, though I cannot find any sources that speak either way on this. 
Bill (talk) 15:01, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Invention of the Geodesic Dome 

message: Huge fan of Bucky and want to help to contribute to this article. I am wondering why there is not a section on the World Game. I also want to say hello to the Bucky editing community here too - before I go in an make any edits or changes. Halfman halfthing (talk) 17:04, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I think a world game section would be great.  Dive in.--Nowa (talk) 22:00, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

text: Just added a few sentences on the World Game and wikilinked it. I put it under the alternative map projection sub-heading, which I renamed "Dymaxion map and World Game". The two (the map and the World Game) go together, but perhaps each of these developments deserves its own sub-heading?GuineaPigC77 (talk) 07:45, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: No section on the World Game? Plus, just want to say hello

message: It was Plato, I suppose, who came up with the five perfect solids, all of whose sides, faces, and angles are equal. If I recall correctly, they were the (regular) tetrahedron, cube, octahedron, dodecahedron, and icosa[meaning twenty]hedron. Cubes are made up of squares, dodecahedra of pentagons, and the others of equilateral triangles. Since you see pentagons in the pattern of geodesic domes, it occurs to me that they might be elaborations of dodecahedra, in which each pentagon is divvied up into triangles which bulge out to the shape of a sphere. On the other hand, each vertex of an icosahedron is surrounded by five triangles. (Aside from triangles, squares, and pentagons, you can't use any other regular polygons, of course, because regular hexagons fill the plane, and higher-numbered polygons can't come together.) Any thoughts on the matter? What's the right way of conceptualizing Bucky's geodesic spheres? [--formerly "Unfree"] 208.54.85.208 (talk) 09:54, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plato 

message: There was something about one or both of Bucky's eyes that he said helped him learn how to imagine three-dimensional things better than most people. Was he blind in one eye? Severely myopic? 208.54.85.218 (talk) 10:33, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eye 

message: A number of points in this article need attention:
* Why "neo-futuristic"?  Why not just "futuristic"?
Frankly, I had not encountered the term "neo-futuristic" before this article.  There is a Wiki article titled "neo-futurism", which defines it, in part, as "...an early 21st century movement in the arts, design, and architecture."
Seeing as how Fuller died nearly a quarter century before the advent of the 21st century, it's difficult to see how he could have been a "neo-futurist" according to this definition.  One of the two articles needs to be fixed. 
* Since Friedrich Fröbel basically originated the modern concept of kindergarten -- all kingergarten -- what does it mean to say that Fuller attended "Froebelian kindergarten"?   It just means he attended kindergarten, right?  So what?  Millions of other kids did, too.
* "Later in life Fuller took exception to the term "invention"."  In what way?  Why?  did he just not like the word for some reason?  What reason?  Did he propose an alternate?  What was it?
* "By his own appraisal, he was a non-conforming misfit in the fraternity environment."  This statement jumps in like a non-sequitur.  What fraternity?  There is no prior mention of fraternities, or of Fuller having been affiliated with any.  We are told that he "began studying at Harvard" but plenty of people attend Harvard without joining a fraternity.  We are told that he was affiliated with "Adams House," but Adams House is not a fraternity.
* I also note the article refers to Fuller as a "designer".  What kind of designer?  A fashion designer?  Graphic designer?  Automotive designer?  All kinds?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.95.43.249 (talk) 22:46, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Neo"-Futuristic? 

message: I notice that a quote from 'Guinea Pig B' is used near the top of the article, yet Guinea Pig B is mentioned nowhere else on this page (or anywhere else on WP).  I think it would be great if 'Guinea Pig B' was added to the bibliography, or perhaps the quote could say that it was originally from the introduction to Fuller's 'Inventions', which is listed in the bibliography, or maybe, since the reference given for the quote is to 'Inventions' and not to 'Guinea Pig B', perhaps the "Guinea Pig B" could just be removed. Thanks! Doctormatt (talk) 22:28, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Guinea Pig B 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: So I updated the 'Best Known Work' section with the title of the work 'Dymaxion Chronofile'.  He was recording his life usually every 15 minutes for decades before the web or Facebook existed.  Talk about a lot of status updates!  Is there a digital copy of it?  I think it deserves more attention.  Synesthetic (talk) 04:25, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ahead of his time 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: 20 years ago I knew a brilliant girl, (Eva, from Montréal) who was HARDCORE into M.C. Escher, optical illusions, patterns, deep math, and Buckminster Fuller.  She taught me brief overviews on these and introduced me to tensegrity.  She explained that Bucky was showman popularist who accepted accolades yet didn't invent the geodesic dome or tensegrity, nor properly credit those who did.  She was a bit bitter about this but still loved Bucky, including his "faults", at least as reported by some (I don't know what biographies or math history books she gleened this from).  I'd like to see this mentioned in more detail in the "tensegrity" and "Bucky Fuller" articles.  ~ JasonCarswell (talk) 05:41, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tensegrity controversy 

message: Years ago, in a documentary, I heard a sustainability quote attributed to Bucky, and every few years I look again on the Internet to try to find it and/or find legit attribution.  The quote was something like, "Waste is simply raw materials we haven't found a new use for."  Also, if you're a fan of Bucky you may appreciate The House of Tomorrow (2017 film).  ~ JasonCarswell (talk) 05:46, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Buckminster Fuller quote 

message: Several statements are made throughout the article that Walther Bauersfeld held a patent for the geodesic dome prior to Bucky Fuller.  At one place in the article it is stated that Bucky Fullers patent is nearly identical to Walther Bauersfeld's patent, and provides the patent number for Bucky's patent, but does not provide the patent number for Bauersfeld's patent or any other supporting reference to the claim. If statements such as these are to be made they deserve and require thorough documentation and the patent number for Bauersfeld's patent should be made known in that context along with Fullers patent.  Otherwise it is heresay and  tantamount to slander. 2600:1004:B03D:103D:CEFF:A273:C418:8BA6 (talk) 21:04, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: @2600:1004:B03D:103D:CEFF:A273:C418:8BA6 correction, the articles says not that the parents are identic, but that Fullers design is the same design as Bauersfeld's design. It reads, "An examination of the geodesic design by Walther Bauersfeld for the Zeiss-Planetarium, built some 28 years prior to Fuller's work, reveals that Fuller's Geodesic Dome patent (U.S. 2,682,235; awarded in 1954) is the same design as Bauersfeld's." 2600:1004:B03D:103D:CEFF:A273:C418:8BA6 (talk) 21:24, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: @2600:1004:B03D:103D:CEFF:A273:C418:8BA6  I'm not suggesting that anyone is deliberately slandering Bucky Fuller, but that is how it comes off when such statements are made without thorough, accessible documentation. 2600:1004:B03D:103D:CEFF:A273:C418:8BA6 (talk) 21:26, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Walther Bauersfeld 

message: It may be a stupid question, perhaps also a trivial one, but I seem to have missed the information: Is "Buckminster" one of his given names or is it part of the family name? Does anyone know?
2A02:8071:686:3660:CF24:D1FB:DE1E:5470 (talk) 09:29, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name 

message: This article would benefit from incorporating the findings in Alec Nevala-Lee's new biography, which uses extensive archival sources to refute a lot of the myths surrounding Fuller. Many of the sources in this article are hagiographic texts that perpetuate fables that Fuller told about himself. I will try to correct a couple of things to begin, but it is a huge project. See also this excellent review of Nevala-Lee's biography by James Gleick: https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2022/11/03/space-age-magus-buckminster-fuller/  Owunsch (talk) 13:08, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alec Nevala-Lee Biography