Talk:Oklahoma!

message: There are some significant issues with the "In popular culture section", but my attempts to clean them up were reverted by . Most of this section fails MOS:POPCULT, as items in an "In popular Culture" section require citations to sources that give in-depth coverage of the subject of the article (i.e. the musical Oklahoma!), not just a mention of "In this scene, so-and-so sang this song". --Ahecht (TALKPAGE) 21:03, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: The guideline states that, when including information about cultural impact, "A source should cover the subject's cultural impact in some depth". I agree with this, but I don't see that a serious effort has been made to find appropriate references for the material that you propose cutting.  Oklahoma! is perhaps the most famous and enduring Broadway musical, since WWII, and its songs and story have been referred to, performed, quoted and pastiched in countless media.  I agree that the current references are too listy and otherwise requires improvement and curating, but I object to simply deleting items that discuss a significant reference, unless they have been examined carefully to see whether they are appropriate and an appropriate source can found that discusses the cultural impact of the item. -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:32, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

text: I totally disagree with you, if you are implying that reference to a single song cannot be an important cultural reference.  However, I would not be opposed to a statement like "various media have commented on, reproduced, pastiched, etc The Surrey with the Fringe on Top (giving a few good refs), and then move the more detailed discussion of each one to the The Surrey with the Fringe on Top article.  
=== Twister ===
Incidental use of a single song is claimed but not verified (as written the claim is false, as Beltzer isn't singing anything when he's introduced, but I don't feel like watching the rest of the movie to see if another scene is being referenced). If there were a citation, and this isn't an "unremarkable mention" per WP:IPCEXAMPLES, this would belong in the Oklahoma (Rodgers and Hammerstein song) article, not here. --Ahecht (TALKPAGE) 21:03, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

text: As above, but I would be happy to be informed with confidence that Beltzer does not sing any song from Oklahoma! in the film, which would save me having to google around to find a good source. -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:32, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not even looking for it, I see this and this and this, for starters, as if Twister is one of the two most significant examples. -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:58, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: @Ssilvers Then the item should be updated just to say that the film references the musical, as those sources do, since Beltzer certainly isn't singing it when he's introduced (the song Talula is playing in the background, but no one is singing anything). --Ahecht (TALKPAGE) 00:30, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

text: As above. -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:32, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

text: As above. -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:32, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

text: As above. It does not say that it is "incidental"..-- Ssilvers (talk) 22:32, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

text: As above.  It does not say that it is "incidental", and it is impossible to judge without, again, doing the research for good sources. -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:32, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

text: Same. -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:32, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

text: Agreed and deleted, as my search did not turn up any good sources, and the song itself does not seem to have charted.  I note that "Oklahoma U.S.A." has a WP entry, even though it seems incredibly non-notable.  -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:32, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

text: Are you certain that our statement is simply false that in the novella Holly "sings music from Oklahoma! while accompanying herself on her guitar"?  If you are certain of that, then I would agree that this need not be researched further and can be deleted.  -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:32, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: @Ssilvers That sentence was in the context of talking in general about what she likes to sing with her guitar, but there's no actual scene in the novella in which she's singing it, and it's never mentioned again. --Ahecht (TALKPAGE) 00:27, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Then I have no objection to deleting the item. -- Ssilvers (talk) 00:32, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  In Popular Culture section 

message: Incidental use of a single song is claimed but not verified (as written the claim is false, as Beltzer isn't singing anything when he's introduced, but I don't feel like watching the rest of the movie to see if another scene is being referenced). If there were a citation, and this isn't an "unremarkable mention" per WP:IPCEXAMPLES, this would belong in the Oklahoma (Rodgers and Hammerstein song) article, not here. --Ahecht (TALKPAGE) 21:03, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: As above, but I would be happy to be informed with confidence that Beltzer does not sing any song from Oklahoma! in the film, which would save me having to google around to find a good source. -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:32, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not even looking for it, I see this and this and this, for starters, as if Twister is one of the two most significant examples. -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:58, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: @Ssilvers Then the item should be updated just to say that the film references the musical, as those sources do, since Beltzer certainly isn't singing it when he's introduced (the song Talula is playing in the background, but no one is singing anything). --Ahecht (TALKPAGE) 00:30, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Twister 

message: Incidental use of a single song is claimed but not verified. If there were a citation, and this isn't an "unremarkable mention" per WP:IPCEXAMPLES, this would belong in the Oklahoma (Rodgers and Hammerstein song) article, not here. --Ahecht (TALKPAGE) 21:03, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: As above. -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:32, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dave 

message: Use of a single song is claimed but not verified. If there were a citation, and this isn't an "unremarkable mention" per WP:IPCEXAMPLES, this would belong in the Oklahoma (Rodgers and Hammerstein song) article, not here. --Ahecht (TALKPAGE) 21:03, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: As above. -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:32, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  I Can Only Imagine 

message: Incidental use of a single song is claimed but not verified. If there were a citation, and this isn't an "unremarkable mention" per WP:IPCEXAMPLES, this would belong in the Oklahoma (Rodgers and Hammerstein song) article, not here. --Ahecht (TALKPAGE) 21:03, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: As above. It does not say that it is "incidental"..-- Ssilvers (talk) 22:32, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  3rd Rock from the Sun 

message: Incidental use of a single song is claimed but not verified. If there were a citation, and this isn't an "unremarkable mention" per WP:IPCEXAMPLES, this would belong in the I Cain't Say No article, not here. --Ahecht (TALKPAGE) 21:03, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: As above.  It does not say that it is "incidental", and it is impossible to judge without, again, doing the research for good sources. -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:32, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Faulty Towers 

message: Incidental use of a single song is claimed but not verified. If there were a citation, and this isn't an "unremarkable mention" per WP:IPCEXAMPLES, this would belong in the Oklahoma (Rodgers and Hammerstein song) article, not here. --Ahecht (TALKPAGE) 21:03, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Same. -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:32, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Band of Brothers 

message: Incidental reference a single song is claimed but not verified. If there were a citation, and this isn't an "unremarkable mention" per WP:IPCEXAMPLES, this would belong in the The Surrey with the Fringe on Top article, not here. --Ahecht (TALKPAGE) 21:03, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed and deleted, as my search did not turn up any good sources, and the song itself does not seem to have charted.  I note that "Oklahoma U.S.A." has a WP entry, even though it seems incredibly non-notable.  -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:32, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oklahoma, U.S.A 

message: Unremarkable mention. Holly is never actually depicted singing any of the songs, the entirety of the reference is the single sentence  --Ahecht (TALKPAGE) 21:03, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you certain that our statement is simply false that in the novella Holly "sings music from Oklahoma! while accompanying herself on her guitar"?  If you are certain of that, then I would agree that this need not be researched further and can be deleted.  -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:32, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: @Ssilvers That sentence was in the context of talking in general about what she likes to sing with her guitar, but there's no actual scene in the novella in which she's singing it, and it's never mentioned again. --Ahecht (TALKPAGE) 00:27, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Then I have no objection to deleting the item. -- Ssilvers (talk) 00:32, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Breakfast at Tiffany's 

message: We should add a mention of :Schmigadoon!, which parodies several of the characters and tropes of Oklahoma!.  See this, and I'll find more refs. -- Ssilvers (talk) 23:36, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: ''Schmigadoon!''

message: Euphorias "funniest scene" (also this this, and these 15,000 results). -- Ssilvers (talk) 00:02, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: ''Euphoria''

message: There is no mention of the original cast member Joan McCracken, and her popular number "tomorrow, tomorrow"-- where she would fall down intentionally. 2601:89:C700:B320:19E:8BF0:E20:C49A (talk) 20:54, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: What is your source for this? -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:04, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: McCracken?