Talk:William Durbin/Archive02

message: (I realized my last post might be missed since it pretty much went straight to the archive, so I'll repost it here)
A search of the laws of the state of Kentucky  show that it does not appear to be illegal under the Kentucky Revised Statutes to use the title "Doctor" if you don't have a degree, it says it is only illegal if you are claiming to be a medical doctor or otherwise in the health-care field.  "Fraudulent" is a very loaded word, and strongly implies criminal intent, and there is no sign he is violating Kentucky law, or that he got his degree in bad-faith (why would he have any reason to believe the degree was not a legal, albeit unaccredited one when he got it)?  Would you feel better if he got a legally recognized but also non-accredited degree from a diploma mill somewhere?  Would a different piece of paper from a different place change everything?
After the John Seigenthaler Sr. Wikipedia biography controversy scandal, keeping defamatory accusations out of biographies on Wikipedia has been a high priority.  Strongly negative accusations in an article require ironclad documentation, which you most certainly don't have.
Really, start an article on Juko Kai and tell the whole story of Dr. Sacharnoski, the UOP, and ZKSBBR.  Since after the recent changes over the Siegenthaler scandal, anonymous editors can't create new articles, if you want I'll create a basic stub of the article and you can document it with all the controversies over the UOP, Combat Ki, the lawsuits, ect.
You've also said that the Kiyojute Ryu site is not a reliable source because there is "controversy".  The only "controversy" here is because a admittedly irate former member is refusing to believe anything they say.  Durbin has a few critics, but virtually every prominent martial artist alive does, especially those that are not part of very large organizations like Kodokan or Aikikai.  Sacharnoski is controversial because of all the lawsuits and the extremely dubious claims about "Combat Ki".  Nimr Hassan/Terry Lee is controversial because of the murder conviction, Ashida Kim is controversial as an infamous hoaxster.  If Kiyojute Ryu so controversial, where are the loads of critical websites and lawsuits one would expect of a controversial martial artist?  A quick check of the net shows plenty of critical sites about Juko Kai, but critical statements about Kiyojute Ryu are virtually all in message board posts (which is specifically not an acceptable secondary source for wikipedia information by policy).
Also, you keep bludgeoning in the point that Kiyojute Ryu is recognized by ZKSBBR, and must therefore be bogus.  Remember that it is recognized by other well known and respected martial artists and organizations.  Would you feel better if the article mentioned every single entity to recognize Kiyojute Ryu?  ZKSBBR was the first and it was originally founded at Sacharnoski's suggestion, but it is far from the only one to recognize it now.  
As for being Vice President of the ZKSBBR, he doesn't claim that in the current edition of the student handbook, merely that he is a member. I can't find a quote on his web site where he says this either.  I can find a passing reference on the web from 2001 at the latest that mentions this, but nothing within the last 4 years.  He may well have stepped down, or he doesn't currently consider himself to hold the position while Sacharnoski still lists him as such, but it's a position he certainly doesn't boast about now (not even in the handbook, where he lists even the most minor of awards and positions he's recieved).
Earlier you said it was an extraordinary claim that he was allowed to teach at KSU.  He does have a Bachelor's degree from Campbellsville University that is completely beyond reproach in terms of legitimacy, and it is quite possible to be a staff instructor at a university on merely a Bachelor's degree.  His own faq says KSU accepted the UOP degree for purposes of determining pay raises, not for hiring and not for admissions.  Note that he also says that as of 1979 he was teaching at Campbellsville , before he got any degrees from the UOP, are you going to dispute that too? --Wingsandsword 17:35, 21 December 2005 (UTC)