Talk:National Register of Historic Places listings in Marion County, Indiana

message: Adding in a table now, which may be developed with pictures.  Comparison to old list's links to any articles in progress.
The table's current Town/City column could be revised to classify Indianapolis locations by neighborhood.  Is there a List of Indianapolis neighborhoods article and/or any official partition of the city? doncram (talk) 18:13, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Indianapolis neighborhoods and other 

message: Thanks for the detailed discussion of this topic.  I don't like changing names without evidence, but it looks like you've uncovered plenty of evidence that the NRIS official names are in error.  I strongly support moving.  Nyttend (talk) 04:31, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, i am working at changing the article name links in National Register of Historic Places listings in Center Township, Marion County, Indiana and changing corresponding dab pages, to implement these renamings/corrections.  Done alphabetically through The Chadwick by now, will continue.  Also I notice that "The Buckingham" is one more of the same in Indianapolis, which is perhaps a later or earlier separate NRHP listing (article at The Buckingham (Indianapolis, Indiana)). doncram (talk) 16:07, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems the St. Clair was not NRHP-listed though.  There is no such place in the current List of RHPs in Center Township and in the Elkman NRHP infobox generator. doncram (talk) 06:03, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Since you have evidence from the nomination that the listing names were meant to be "The ____", I'm not going to propose that we change them back — but I should note that single-word names are common.  Today, I visited and photographed several sites in Center Township, including Alameda, Ambassador, Blacherne, McKay, Pennsylvania, and Wilson.  Some didn't have visible names, and others had modern plastic signs such as "Historic _____ Apartments".  However, as far as I remember, every place that had an original name (e.g. one carven over the main entrance) had a single-word name; Blacherne is a good example of this.  No wonder that the nomination form sometimes used single-word names, since the original buildings appear to have used single-word names as well.  Nyttend (talk) 02:54, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: We need a section break

message: I notice some edits splitting and reversions re-merging this list-article.  What's going on?  Could we discuss the merits of possibly splitting, and how, here?
A recent splitting focussed on Center Township vs. others.  Is there a map available (in Wikipedia or outside) which shows the boundaries of these townships?  If a split along these lines is implemented, such a map should probably be included in the top-level article.  But for now I would just like to understand what is the split proposal. doncram (talk) 02:49, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: DeLorme's Indiana Atlas and Gazetteer shows the township boundaries precisely.  Because virtually all of the Marion County listings are in Indianapolis, listing by townships is much more precise than listing by community.  The large number of listings makes a split necessary, and splitting out Center Township is far simpler than attempting to split by any other means — the only simpler way would be to split by whether locations are within the I-465 beltway or whether they're within the non-Indianapolis communities, but there are so few listings outside 465 and outside Indianapolis that such a split would be essentially without benefit.  Only by going by townships can we have a clear boundary for splitting.  Nyttend (talk) 03:18, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: (ec) I see there is a map showing which is Center Township but not naming the others, in the current National Register of Historic Places listings in Center Township, Marion County, Indiana article.  Here it is, at right.  Also in general i agree that some split is helpful, as there are more than 200 places in the county and Bing maps cut off at showing just the first 200.  Among other things, I wonder if "National Register of Historic Places listings in Indianapolis" would be a proper name for the Center Township ones, if that split is used.  Also, I have not seen any other city list split into a downtown/center city vs. a doughnut around it.  Perhaps to avoid that doughnut shape it should be a 3 way split, something like: "NRHP listings in Center Township of Marion County, Indiana" vs. "NRHP listings in north and west townships of Marion County, Indiana" vs. "NRHP listings in south and east townships of Marion County, Indiana"?  I don't know anything about local usage though.  I would like to see something settled or for any disagreement to be suspended for a while, though, so I can implement the decision on the unrelated "One word names" issue in Talk section above, changing about 35 property names.doncram (talk) 03:37, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

text: Looking on google maps, I wonder if Christian Park School No. 82 should be in Center Township, by the way, rather than in non-Center Township. doncram (talk) 03:37, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: If it must be split, the way Nyttend had it was best because there is not really any other way to split the city, as you said, but that only inconveniences readers because the townships are nearly meaningless and now they must go to a subarticle to find info better suited together. While I understand the problem with being too big, I find it much worse to be too small. I question Nyttend's reversion of my merge of extremely short Alaska borough lists, and I started a thread at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places. Reywas92Talk 03:59, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: For a little background information, read Unigov.  Don't be unhappy if it seems confusing; I've read plenty about the subject, and I've talked with several friends who live in the city, but I still don't understand it very well.  For the purposes of this list, the most important thing is (if I understand correctly) that, before the formation of Unigov, Indianapolis had boundaries somewhat similar to the boundaries of Center Township.  However, the entire county (quasi-minus the excluded cities) is Indianapolis, so Old Southport High School in Perry Township is no less Indianapolis than is a property on Monument Circle in the heart of the city.  FYI, if I had been aware of a better way to split this, I would have done it that way, because it would be preferable to have two pages of 110 listings each or more than two pages with relatively equal numbers of listings than to have two pages of 160 and 60 listings.  Check back for my opinion on the Christian Park school.  Nyttend (talk) 04:28, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The boundary between Warren and Center Townships is Emerson Avenue, and the school is clearly west of Emerson, so it's clear that I made an error.  Nyttend (talk) 04:40, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: By the way, we've sometimes split cities by what may seem to be rather irrelevant-to-the-locals boundaries; for example, Philadelphia was split by municipal planning districts.  I know that townships aren't entirely irrelevant: school districts (see Metropolitan School District of Perry Township for an example) are based on the townships, so the average local has that as a reason to know his/her own township.  Nyttend (talk) 04:47, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, given Reywas92's comment and Nyttend's further information, and my own dearth of local knowledge, it sounds like a consensus that the current split (Center Township vs. doughnut of other townships) is okay/best and there are no obvious article renames or further splits to make right now.  Reywas92, I do think over-200 size is too big, both for linked Bing map reason and for article size once pics and text descriptions are added, so I do believe a split is indeed necessary.  Also i think having the center city in one article is okay/good, as done in splitting National Register of Historic Places listings in Philadelphia and National Register of Historic Places in Baltimore.  So please do let's consider this settled on decision=split as implemented already.  I do agree with Reywas92 basically about Alaska and other states being split out too much, though, and I will comment further at the central discussion (at wt:NRHP) perhaps tomorrow.  Overall, i think it's great we have 3 intelligent people present and interested in this matter.  So much elsewhere in our lives doesn't add up to anything worthwhile!  Cheers, doncram (talk) 05:50, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. Nyttend, to clarify, Unigov just merged the governments of Indianapolis and Marion County into the Indianapolis City-County Council, which also has control over the county's included towns. The city's boundaries were always most of the county except for the small towns now called included towns (see this image). And while school districts are generally based on townships, they are not very identical (see this image). I would also rather have 110-110 than 160-60, but the listings are clearly concentrated downtown in Center Township. Reywas92Talk 21:07, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the explanation, and especially for the map; I had wished that such a map existed, but I didn't know that it did.  Nyttend (talk) 22:12, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  split or not, and how? 

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