Talk:Avery Brundage

message: The information contained in this article about Israel's reaction to Brundage's decision to continue the games directly contradicts the article on the Munich massacre.  In that article, it is stated that Israel endorsed the decision, while here it states that they protested it.  Since no source is given in the current article, I am deleting the reference.    —Preceding unsigned comment added by BishopOcelot (talk • contribs) 14:56, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Israeli reaction to speech 

message: Many years ago I watched the mini-series "King of the Olympics: The Lives and Loves of Avery Brundage" which depicted Avery as having an illegitimate child from an affair.  Anyone know if this was true?
I found an August 4, 1980 article in Sports Illustrated that treats Brundage's affair with Lilian Dresden and the resultant two children, Gary Dresden and Avery Dresden, as fact.  According to William Johnson, the article's author, Brundage fathered the two boys out of wedlock and acknowledged paternity privately, requesting his identity be withheld because of his public personage. As I understand it, Brundage was generally considered to have women all over the world and married much later in life than most men of his generation.OlympicParadox (talk) 09:36, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I am treating the illegitimate children as true; multiple sources say that Brundage acknowledged and visited them, including Guttmann's bio of Brundage.--Wehwalt (talk) 11:43, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Illegitimate child? 

message: Why did he die in Germany? Did he spend the last years of his life there or did he die while travelling?--129.70.14.128 (talk) 18:07, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Death 

message: The article previously stated that Brundage had Tommie Smith and John Carlos' medals taken away. While they were indeed punished and made persona non grata, I have seen no evidence that their medals were taken away. As stated in Sports Illustrated, July 14-21, 2008: "Smith and Carlos were suspended from the U.S. Olympic team, cast out of the Olympic Village and given 48 hours to leave the country." There is no mention of losing their medals. (Also, I removed the following sentence about Brundage presiding over the IOC during the era of shamateurism in the Eastern bloc because it was mentioned previously in the article.) --Metropolitan90 (talk) 03:22, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: 1968 Black Power salute

message: We are basically calling this guy a Nazi here, from what I have read it's not clear this was entirely true. In fact, he refuted much of that. So he may have well been pro-Nazi at some point in his life, but this article implies that as WWII started in Europe he changed his tune. The guy was definitely racist, and maybe a Nazi, but we seriously need to look at this closer. Currently the claim he is a Nazi rests on an HBO documentary, not the best source at all for this article. So for these reasons I have tagged this article for being non-neutral. --IvoShandor (talk) 13:35, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This discussion's a bit stale, but I will add:  Guttmann gave an interview when the papers about the German embassy thing were publicized.  He said it was not a bribe because Brundage didn't need to be bribed to try to bring the US team to Berlin.  He was not a Nazi sympathizer, but he did believe that politics should be kept out of sports, and thus a boycott was ill-advised.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:50, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  Nazi discussion aside, this article lacks a nuetral POV and looks reads like the work of a biographer (one who liked him and wanted to voice his views), which is unacceptable for Wikipedia. Unfortunately, it's also incredibly bulky and in need of overhaul so the task is nontrivial.130.126.102.58 (talk) 04:42, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Edited the Mexico City Olympics section. If I were to base my opinion on the article, I would conclude that the 1968 Olympics was a violent race riot instigated by black athletes on the US Olympic track team and that Brundage was right to punish the athletes. Wikipedia does not make these judgements. Overall, this problem is rampant, but very difficult to solve due to the bulky nature of the article. Did they just abridge Guttmann?130.126.245.129 (talk) 07:46, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Guttman was unquestionably friendly to Brundage. He is, however, Brundage's only full-length biographer, not counting the hagiography that was done by an East German IOC member in the late 1960s.  Brundage is presented neutrally here.  The article passed FAC, our most difficult process, which includes neutrality.  There's no getting around Berlin and Munich when talking about Brundage, and those damn him in the eyes of many.  Those events are presented neutrally and dispassionately, with the arguments on both sides given.  You may not like the balance, but it is what seemed to work.  As for bulkiness, yes, it is long.  Necessarily so, for a man who was in the public eye for sixty years and that for more than one thing.  We have to have sections dealing with his art collecting and building career, because if someone goes to the Asian Art Museum and sees Brundage's name all over, he is entitled to wonder why the mean old man of sports gave so many art pieces.  We must supply that answer.  Same if someone finds out his Chicago building was constructed by Brundage.--Wehwalt (talk) 10:55, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Neutrality

message: The lead sentence of the women in sports paragraph says he didn't want them to be in sports at all.  The next sentence seems to indicate that he liked them as divers and swimmers, but not doing track and field.  This should be clarified.  Also the Eleanor Holm ban sentence may be unsupported.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Seanose (talk • contribs) 01:26, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  women in sports 

message: I just came here through the article on Peter Norman, the Australian involved in the Black Power Salute in 1968 and in each article, including the one specific to the salute it says that it was because Norman was against the political use of the Olympics. This doesn't sit right with his overt views on Nazi's and Jews ... basically what I'm saying is that he was an extreme version of the cultural standard at the time in the USA and Australia. More racist and conservative then the average and was more upset by Black Power salute then the political statement it implied. Assuredly there would be a reference around to support that given everything else here is so well supported.--Senor Freebie (talk) 01:35, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: After reading the section on Munich I'm now even more confident in my opinion that there will be a reference to this. He wanted to include Rhodesia and mentioned that in his 'commemorative' speech for the Israeli victims of the Munich Massacre. The fact that he would mention his support of fascists in a speech on behalf of Jews seems like the actions of a man hell bent on racist views.--Senor Freebie (talk) 01:40, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Highly Suspect 

message: The first part of this section confuses me. What exactly was the AOA, a rival of the AOC or rather some kind of superordinate body? If they were rivals, why would Brundage be president of both the AOA and the AOC? When exactly did he preside the AOA?
The following sentence is especially confusing: "In response, the AAU founded an American Olympic Association as a separate group, although it was still initially dominated by AAU representatives—it then selected the AOC." What exactly does that mean?
--84.226.157.219 (talk) 10:39, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The AAU was seen as too dominant, especially by the NCAA.  With the 1920 scandal over bringing home the athletes on a troopship, they set up the AOA to be something of an arms length, and to pick the AOC.  The AOA was the body which did all the work between Olympics, the AOC was initially set up every four years, administering how the team was picked and how it got to the Olympics.  So it would make sense for the AOA president to be AOC president too.  Later on, the AOC took over the AOA's functions, so it didn't last long having two Olympic organizations.  I am away from home right now and cannot answer your question about when he became AOA president.--Wehwalt (talk) 11:38, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rise to leadership 

message: The article should have his anti-semtism in the lead that is what Brundage legacy is 1936 in barring Jews and in 72 glossing over the Palestinan terrorism32.178.67.146 (talk) 13:44, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: That's being judgmental.  The facts are stated, both 1936 and 1972, the reader can judge for himself.--Wehwalt (talk) 15:02, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: If we are talking about Glickman and Stoller, that is thoroughly discussed in the article.  And he did pay honor, the problem was, he brought in the Rhodesian issue and didn't cancel the games.  That's discussed, too.  And I did put "anti-Semitism" in the lede.--Wehwalt (talk) 18:10, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

text: I'm Jewish, fella.  I also have one Jew, one Nazi, one fellow traveler of the Nazis, and Brundage to my FA credit.  Deal with it :). --Wehwalt (talk) 21:06, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anti Semitism 

message: :I changed the "Bibliography" section to a subsection and "References cited". Bibliography is sometimes used in biographies (although discouraged) as works or publications.
:MOS:NOTES states: .  Otr500 (talk) 06:32, 2 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  References