Talk:List of best-selling singles in Japan

message: This article was nominated for deletion with a result of keep. Capitalistroadster 01:42, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: AFD nomination

message: I just wanted to say, I don't see how the previous version of this page contravened copyright, at least of the quoted page. For one, transliterating the names and song titles into English represents that it is an independent piece of work, and that site is not the only place that that information is available. If it belongs to anyone, it belongs to Oricon. AuTomAton 23:08, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Where did you read that translating the names creates a new work? This certainly isn't true. Transliterating is less work than translating, so I can't imagine that copyright doesn't attach. Indeed, it's completely the point -- the work belongs to Oricon and can't be reproduced here without their permission. -- Mikeblas 02:45, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am not really an expert in US law. But per Feist Publications v. Rural Telephone Service I removed the copyvio tag. Garion96 (talk) 18:44, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems like a stretch for you to replace the text and remove the copyvio tag, since the case you cite doesn't involve translation and does involve discoverable facts. -- Mikeblas 20:52, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly Garion96, it's the sweat of the brow doctrine, though I will admit I'm not an expert in US law either, being from the UK. Anyway, I see no harm in including information that is publically available but few have access to, due to the form of the text. AuTomAton 21:11, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

text: You cannot redistribute a derivative of a copyrighted work without the original author's permission. Translating a work does not remove the original work's copyright, hence the translation aspect is irrelevant.—Tokek 14:42, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

text: It's not copyrightable. Phone books and other collection of information that does not have creativity or originality enough to be copyrightable. You'd have to pretty much delete Wikipedia if you weren't allowed to add information here. —Tokek 11:03, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You are allowed to add information here. But not to copy the exact table format etc. Garion96 (talk) 12:53, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Content should not be removed from the article when it is clearly not a copyright violation. —Tokek 14:07, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That obviously is disputed. Feel free to convince me (and others) that it is not a copyvio. But meanwhile, do not revert the article. Garion96 (talk) 14:10, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Did you actually take a look at the cited URL? The claim is that this version violated the copyright of this web page. Not only do the appearances, such as the table structure, not look similar, the information provided in the two versions such as sales count differ as well. You'd have to point out to me which aspects you think are copyright violations. Also, if you can create a Top 2 list that in your opinion is not copyright violating (keeping in mind thing such as information in phone books are not considered creative or original work), I'd be happy to complete the rest of that list for you provided that it's not an unexpectedly complicated demand. If you can't figure out how the previous versions were violating copyright, then maybe you could restore the article to the version prior to your edits. —Tokek 14:42, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  No of course I didn't look at the cited URL, I just imagined it. In other words, skip the sarcasm please. The table structure is extremely similar, just some columns moved around and, except for number 1, the sales are identical. Feel free to add the information in a way that it doesn't look identical to the source page. Although, as you can see, opinions differ on the fact if that is a copyright violation or not. Since it is a list of only sales figures (as far as I can tell) I don't think the data itself is copyrightable. Garion96 (talk) 19:04, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  You missed several rows. The two tables differ in sales number in more than one. What kind of table format would be non-problematic in your opinion? —Tokek 00:43, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

text:  Regarding your sarcastic comments:  I'm sorry that you took offence to my comments and misinterpreted it as sarcasm. For this discussion, I wanted to present the two URLs in my comment for the sake of navigational convenience and to make sure that we were paying attention to the same material. Sometimes it is easy to miss out on some details, both start talking about different things, etc. But enough with that. If you can explain which aspect of the list you are concerned about (e.g. is it the order of columns? Some aspect that could be considered creative or original work?), then I can take that into consideration when reconstructing the list. If you are opposed to the list, but you can't really point out what aspect of the list is specifically wrong with it, then I don't think you have enough reason to justify repeatedly clearing the list. —Tokek 12:07, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  My apologies, I took it for sarcasm. If you can make the list so that it doesn't look the same, great. Perhaps just numbers 1 till 100, the song and artist. This is a bit controversial topic all together and not a 100 percent clear. See Talk:List of football (soccer) players with 100 or more caps for a related discussion. Garion96 (talk) 12:32, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Copyright issue

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