Talk:Gadsden flag

message: There seems to be a script embeded in the gadsen flag SVG file that gathers information about the host computer and sends it to a webserver. Not sure exactly everything it does, because a large part of it is obfuscated.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sillymanwiki (talk • contribs) 15:42, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Script in SVG File

message: I finished a complete rewrite of the article. I hope it is a lot clearer and more informative now. 
-GreyGh0st 21:34, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Rewritten

message: Should it be noted that smoker's rights groups now use this flag constantly?
-- I've never heard of this.
This is one of the worst written articles I've ever seen. I would re-write it if I knew something about the topic.
Re-write done.
-GreyGh0st 21:34, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Unsigned old comments

message: Does anyone wish to discuss why they used "dont" instead of "don't," as this is obviously incorrect grammar.
--Thursby Pierce
:Well, it's incorrect punctuation, actually, but I agree with you: I'd list it in the article as "DONT [sic] TREAD ON ME". Tony Myers 21:39, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Apostrophe

message: http://www.pa-aware.org/who-are-terrorists/domestic-5.asp
On this site the flag is shown in association with Domestic Terrorists because of it's association with "Anti-Government Groups" (site is run by the "the Pennsylvania Commission on Crime and Delinquency in partnership with the Pennsylvania Department of Health as a Crime Prevention & Safety Initiative")
I'd say that the use is ridiculous, but perhaps worthy of a mention?  Perhaps to help shame the PA site into removing it?ValeOfAldur (talk) 03:26, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Please sign your posts. While not a place for activism, Wikipedia is a place for information relevant to the article, which ValeofAldur's suggestion was.--Gloriamarie (talk) 18:57, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Domestic Terrorists" 

message: If it's not a place for activism, what is far right about protesting election fraud? -- 02:24, 8 August 2021 102.65.62.221
What is "right about ... [repeating lies alleging] election fraud?"2601:205:3:DEE2:ED04:8B6F:5FB9:4775 (talk) 03:10, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: 2021

message: :Displaying the flag on one's home, vehicle, etc. is NOT protected under the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.
This statement seem grossly out of place and leaves the impress that there are regulations and laws about the types of flags that may be displayed by citizens in the United States, or that such regulations should exist. As such, I have removed the statement. --Farix (Talk)
But the statement is FACT. Displaying it IS NOT protected under the US Consittution...so what's the problem? Are you afraid people might know their rights?--WaxonWaxov (talk) 04:47, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The display of any flag is protected under the First Amendment. There is nothing special about this one that makes it worth noting. It is also very disclaimery. --Farix (Talk) 11:45, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Ya know, I'm looking at my above statement and thinking "what the heck was I smoking?" Did someone mess with this post? Of COURSE displaying any flag is protected under the First Amendment.  I have a lerge Gadsden Flag on my house right now and if anyone, ANYONE told me take it down I would respond that the only way it's coming down is to be draped on my coffin.WaxonWaxov (talk) 20:05, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Political use today 

message: I believe both of these sections should be merged as I can see no reason why they are separate since both talk about the current use and meaning of the flag. I also worry that the Free State Project is given undo recognition. There are many variations of the flag, and it seems like their variation - which is rather different - is only being used because there are a higher portion of Libertarians on Wikipedia than in American politics. Several uses and versions are mentioned in the text, but why is this one shown? 68.40.254.37 (talk) 03:40, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I merged the sections, and I think it looks much better now. Before it sounded too much like the flag was seeing a revival as a tool against the current Obama administration, when in reality it has been co-opted as an anti-government symbol (along with patriotic) long before this administration. Arrow of Thyme (talk) 03:50, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Political use today and Contemporary significance 

message: I don't see a citation for the third sentence, first paragraph of this section.  Can anyone come up with where this is documented? "Britain sent their convicted criminals to the colonies". Thanks, me.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by DieselBeetle (talk • contribs) 02:54, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I added a reference, this seems to be pretty accepted from a quick google search.--Profitoftruth85 (talk) 05:05, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Snake Symbolism 

message: In several places in this article the motto is reading "Don't step on me" instead of what I assume is the more familar "Dont tread on me" I'm confused here.Smiloid (talk) 08:00, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: On 18th-century flags, an apostrophe was considered inessential. AnonMoos (talk) 16:26, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

text: Instead of speculation, what we need is a photo of an actual late 18th century Gadsden flag that would clear up syntax, punctuation and typeface questions. There must be one in a museum somewhere.  Images currently floating around on the Web appear to be copies or adaptations of the Wikipedia artwork, not original "best evidence". In fact, one source that I found indicates that the original wording of the first Gadsden flag was "Don't Tread on Me!", with full punctuation.  There was a replica of the flag on display in 2007 at the State Capitol in Raleigh, North Carolina.  Although it is inscribed "DONT TREAD ON ME", the rattlesnake looks different than the one in the Wikipedia article. Anyone? —QuicksilverT @ 16:32, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Dont Step? On Me

message: This entire paragraph should be deleted, IMO, as it is irrelevant to the topic:
"The Albany conference was held on the verge of the war (June 19-July 11, 1754). The war was not declared until May 16 of 1756- almost 2 years later. Battles did take place before the war was declared (ex: Monongahela-July 9, 1755 and the battle of Jumonville Glen-April of 1754), but England did not declare the actual war (French and Indian or Seven Years War) during the Albany Conference.[4][5]"
J Baustian (talk) 23:56, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Need to delete irrelevant paragraph 

message: I don't think people widely view him as a leading voice of the tea party. Hes just a crazy with a tv show.71.178.151.7 (talk) 14:47, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Glenn Beck? 

message: This section, entirely or significantly, restates information in the paragraphs above it. These adjoining sections should be merged. Varlaam (talk) 16:52, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  In popular culture 

message: I frequently use/display the Gadsden flag to show support for various causes. Generally defying entrenched ruling class, corporate USA, etc institutions and the many minions and lackeys of the empowered folks and institutions at the national, state and local levels.
Sadly, so many well-indoctrinated citizen-sheep bleat their outrage at me and the flag knowing little to nothing about the flag and its history. The complainers assume I am supporting the "Tea Party" or whatever the oft-mentioned group is in reality. I despise ALL political parties!!! I am using the flag to defend the lowest segments of the pyramid-shaped socio-economic hierarchy with "Don't Tread on Me" the real "message." Local usage is mainly used to protest the local power brokers and their cohorts who despise the economic downtrodden and favor the keep "them" moving tactic so "those people" would relocate to be unemployed and/or homeless or mentally ill or down on their luck. Even returning veterans from our recent overseas conflicts are despised who are existing at society's "lower levels" despite so many  of those shunning them often apparently proudly bearing their yellow "support the troops" magnets upon their vehicles!
A small social aspect of the Gadsden flag's modern-day usage misinterpreted by so MANY of the mass of USA citizen-sheep blinded by their deplorable lack of knowledge and indoctrinated by 10-second sound bites and shared "knowledge" within their isolated socio-economic groups that despise the USA's lower unwanted classes. Obbop wrote this Obbop (talk) 13:08, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I realize the above comment is over a year old, but I feel compelled to point out: talk pages are not a forum for editors to argue their viewpoints. TricksterWolf (talk) 18:43, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Actual Gadsden Flag use in public

message: The green grass seems to be a recent addition; representations dating from 1885 and 1917 do not display anything below the rattlesnake this wiki states.
So why then is the main image a flag depicting exactly that??  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.251.206.65 (talk) 14:55, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grass 

message: My friend has a half-black, half-yellow flag with the "Don't Tread on Me" image. He claims that it's an anarchist flag. I've been reading and the only other connection I can find is a Zazzle user selling the design as anarchist. Can anyone else find a source on this, or am I just misinformed? 63.246.240.133 (talk) 19:05, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: If you don't have a reliable source, then you have nothing to indicate it's used as a symbol of anarchy.  Ask your friend for a reliable source. TricksterWolf (talk) 18:46, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

text: It sounds like your friend's flag is the anarcho-capitalist flag with the Gadsen flag's rattlesnake edited on top of it. This, however, is not enough to edit it into the article. Kayetlin (talk) 05:00, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anarchist connection? 

message: What liberal retard wrote this article?  The flag being used during that embarrassing staged bin Laden celebration with those college kids?  Please, the Gadsden flag and those Obamabots couldn't be further apart. And then the same liberal retard used a photo of the Tea Party with some guy saying, "Less goverment, more Jesus," which has nothing to do with the Tea Party.  I cannot stand you liberals.  We need to split the country.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.12.230.104 (talk) 10:01, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Anyone who chooses can use the flag; it's only "official" meaning is as a Continental Navy flag.  And there is a significant overlap between the Christian Right and Tea Party (though by no means identical). AnonMoos (talk) 06:06, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photos 

message: It may be an editing error, but this passage is simply wrong:  "In addition, since the first Patriot Day on September 11, 2002, which commemorates the lives lost in the September 11 attacks, The rattlesnake from the flag is also shown on the U.S. Army's Drill Sergeant Identification Badge."  In fact, the snake has been part of the Drill Sergeant's Badge since its adoption in 1958, and was on the device before that when it was worn as a regimental crest.  If you look closely at the badge, you will see that the snake's mouth and tail are holding a scroll which serves as the outer circle of the badge, and upon which is inscribed the Army's Motto, "This We'll Defend", rather than the Don't Tread On Me motto.
Since much of this article focuses on the use of the rettlesnake symbol, might also want to note that a rattlesnake adorns the US Army Flag (here aslo holding a streamer inscribed with "This We'll Defend"), and has ever since that flag was adopted in 1956.  Further, the design of the Army Flag comes from the Department of the Army Seal and the Department of the Army Emblem.  These in turn are the same - with minor changes - as the earlier War Department Seal, which was adopted in 1778.  In other words, the US Army/War Office Seal has - without interruption - displayed a rattlesnake since 1778 - 235 years.
98.255.89.22 (talk) 21:05, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contemporary Significance - Army Drill Sergeant Badge 

message: This edit has been added several times in the past few months, but it hasn't been discussed here yet. I reverted it because it's making a broad generalization based on a Forbes opinion piece and a thinkprogress article detailing a single incident and expanding it beyond what the sources say. The edit adds it as an "example", but it appears to be the exhaustive list. The edit draws a conclusion that is not found in any of the sources, and makes it seem like more of a thing than it actually is, because what isfound in the sources isn't enough to warrant mentioning here. - Aoidh (talk) 19:46, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Now he uses a sockpuppet account... here. Perseverare diabolicum --Mr.Pseudo Don't talk to me 09:21, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Concerning the white supremacist edit 

message: The sentence in this article about the typeface in the illustration being wrong is ludicrous.
The typefaces commonly used in that period (Caslon as suggested) are completely irrelevant to flag-making, which would have been hand-sewn or hand-painted, not printed on a printer.  To that end, it is much more likely that someone would have painted in a san-serif font.  It's very unlikely that you would see an accurate depiction of Caslon or any other printers typeface in text on a flag.
And given that the statement is unsourced anyway, it should probably be removed.
Battling McGook (talk) 19:48, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Caslon Typeface 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111008210657/http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-96316601417599_2105_1874656 to http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-96316601417599_2105_1874656
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I've reverted this edit because it is the very definition of a trivial mention of the flag in popular culture, and the reference itself is a nothing more than an image of a frame of the movie. This isn't acceptable as a reliable source, and if the only source that can be found to verify this instance of the flag being used here is a frame from the movie, than it's clearly not relevant to the flag's article. If it were, a reliable source would be available to cite showing that it's significant in any way.  "In popular culture" does not mean every tiny mention of a subject that has over occured. - Aoidh (talk) 00:43, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Your opinions of me are not a compelling reason to include the material. Do you have any source that shows that the flag appearing in the film is relevant to this article's subject in any way? An "in popular culture" section is not a catch-all for "every thing this flag has ever been mentioned in". It would be helpful if you explained why you believe the material belongs. - Aoidh (talk) 04:48, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Black Sheep mention 

message: Hey. I noticed that in the third paragraph of the history section, it was noted that information on the eagle being a symbol was not cited. So, to supply more information and clarity in relation to this claim, I added a citation describing why the bald eagle became an American symbol. Hope it was beneficial! Kayetlin (talk) 05:03, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added citation under history section 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The "modern use" section of the article carries on extensively about the First Naval Jack rather than the Gadsden flag, and contains contradictory information about it to boot; first claiming that it has been in use since the Revolution and later citing research showing that it has not.  It seems to me that this information is better hosted at First Navy Jack.  Rogue 9 (talk) 00:30, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Modern Use

message: A rather clever variation on the Gadsden flag has been showing up, with the snake twisted in the shape of a uterus, used as a symbol of freedom of bodily autonomy for women.  It takes a symbol often used by the far-right, and points out that its love of freedom and independence should apply to other areas usually considered left-wing causes.  I think it would need more citations that what I have so far -- for example, the poster in the OB/Gyn office in this comic http://thedevilspanties.com/archives/13156 -- and a discussion of the history would be nice.  Could y'all keep an eye out for any such sources?  I'll add it if we can find good citation(s)!  Critterkeeper (talk) 23:41, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Don't Tread On My Uterus

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
* 
Participate in the deletion discussion at the . —Community Tech bot (talk) 07:53, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion 

message: Are there there any surviving original Gadsden flags?  Or, put another way, what is the oldest surviving Gadsden flag?  Elsquared (talk) 06:24, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Here is one from circa 1876 that sold at auction, and here is one in a museum. --Guy Macon (talk) 14:53, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  surviving flags? 

message: More info  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:ECD0:7150:D19F:34FE:F1B0:6A22 (talk) 23:59, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: If you step on a rattlesnake, there's a good chance it will bite you.  Not sure that it's any more complex than that... AnonMoos (talk) 10:25, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  I need more info on Don't Tread On Me 

message: The content was untrue. The EEOC explicitly stated that there was no basis for viewing it as a racist symbol (https://www.eeoc.gov/wysk/what-you-should-know-about-eeoc-and-shelton-d-v-us-postal-service-gadsden-flag-case). The text in the wiki had a link to a personal blog and yet no link to the supposed EEOC ruling.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:E0A:4F1:1070:A5F3:F121:17FF:62EA (talk) 17:20, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed section claiming that the EEOC had ruled the flag to be a racist symbol. 

message: Eastern Diamondback Rattlesnake
Crotalus adamanteus PALISOT DE BEAUVOIS, 1799
It is a venomous pit viper found in the southeastern United States. It is the heaviest venomous snake in America and the largest rattlesnake. It featured prominently in the American Revolution, specifically as the symbol of what many consider to be the first flag of the United States of America, the Gadsden flag which was designed by Christopher Gadsden (1724-1805) 1, the principal leader of the South Carolina Patriot movement during the American Revolution 2.
 
According to tradition, the Gadsden flag’s rattlesnake is Crotalus horridus Timber Rattlesnake 3. However, the dorsal coloration patterns of the vast majority of drawings made on this flag and geographical distribution of this viper species where this flag was designed around 1775, frankly are more consistent with Crotalus adamanteus Eastern Diamondback Rattlesnake (from Greek krotalon which means “rattle” and adámas “invincible” or from Latin adamanteus “diamond or lozenge-shaped”, referring to the shape of the dorsal body markings).
In fact, the two oldest banners from original Gadsden flag delivered in 1775 to Commodore Esek Hopkins by Christopher Gadsden in Pennsylvania and a replica of this flag in 1776 to South Carolina State Congress in Charleston, feature the Crotalus adamanteus rattlesnake. Likewise, the oldest banner of this flag that is in the Charleston Museum in South Carolina, presents this same species of rattlesnake. 
Likewise, the type locality (site of the specimen (s) with which the species was originally described) of Crotalus adamanteus is restricted to Charleston, South Carolina 4,5. City where Christopher Gadsden lived. This further increases the likelihood that Gadsden was inspired by this local rattlesnake to design it.
1 Gadsden Chrystopher. 1911. Encyclopædia Britannica. Volume 11.
 
2 The Patriot Leaders in South Carolina - Brigadier General Christopher Gadsden. www.carolana.com.
3 Nash C.J., T. B. Erickson. 2018. An Historical and Medical Review of the North American Timber      Rattlesnake (Crotalus horridus). J Pharmacol Clin Toxicol. 6(2):1106.
4 Palisot de Beauvois 1799. Memoir on amphibia. Serpents. Trans American Philos Soc. 4: 362-381.
5 Schmidt, K. P. 1953. A Checklist of North American Amphibians and Reptiles. 6th ed. American Society of Ichthyologists and Herpetologists, Chicago, 280 pp.
--Thor Gad (talk) 01:42, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  According to tradition, the Gadsden flag’s rattlesnake is Crotalus horridus (Timber rattlesnake) and it really is Crotalus adamanteus (Eastern Diamondback Rattlesnake). 

message: has been continually changing the sub-section heading  to . I will admit I maybe biased toward the first sentence (since I wrote it), but I think it works much better to have all of those sub-sections named consistently. Starting a conversation here to hopefully resolve the dispute. SamStrongTalks (talk) 17:19, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sub-section naming 

message: "The flag originated well before the American Revolution, and in recent years it has been used by the tea party movement and, at times, members of the militia movement. But it has also been used to represent the U.S. Marine Corps, the U.S. Navy, the U.S. men’s national soccer team and a Major League Soccer franchise."
https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-sports-north-america-mens-soccer-from-our-partner-the-conversation-24c0c709c00fdf4f98325f1e1e7a7331
2600:1700:D0A0:21B0:D98C:47F9:7891:EBB5 (talk) 04:40, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use as a far-right symbol 

message: Please remove the non factual info from this page 98.111.128.242 (talk) 17:30, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Incorrect info 

message: Remove the comment that the Gadsden flag is sometimes used as a symbol of racism.  Even if some neo natzi group used it, it would have been their anti government sentiment and not their deranged racist ideology. 2600:1700:1883:71C0:A5A4:EAC8:E84E:1454 (talk) 20:31, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Your point is actually valid. But the headline brands you as a moron. "big tech"???? Is there a leak in your tin-foil hat? --Orange Mike | Talk 20:41, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fake news: that the Gadson flag is used sometimes as a symbol of racism.  Really? Sounds like big tech is at it again labeling every patriot as a latent racist. 

message: I'm wondering about including this section at all. I'm not sure the cited sources actually show what it is saying, and even if they were I would say it needs to be rewritten to be quoting and referencing those sources rather than being a statement in wikivoice. Thoughts? SamStrongTalks (talk) 21:02, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I second rewriting or removing the section, as it doesn't really add any information that isn't already stated previously in the article. JellyMan9001 (talk) 22:12, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question about the "Patriotism" section 

message: Is there any reason why Reference 11 is linked to a Snopes republish instead of the original article?
Link snopes republish; 
https://www.snopes.com/news/2021/01/08/yellow-gadsden-flag-carries-a-long-and-shifting-history/
Link original article;
https://theconversation.com/yellow-gadsden-flag-prominent-in-capitol-takeover-carries-a-long-and-shifting-history-145142 BorderlinePathetic (talk) 13:26, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference 11 

message: Actually, editors should specify the colour spaces that the RGB and CMYK used there refer to, since RGB (50, 90, 200) can mean different colours, so does CMYK (98,10,100,4). --RekishiEJ (talk) 15:05, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  About the section "Colour Scheme" 

message: Under the music section (use in popular culture) please add: The flag also appears in Metallica’s video “Nothing Else Matters.”
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tAGnKpE4NCI 2600:6C44:78F0:680:FD8F:D6F4:1BB5:5144 (talk) 11:46, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: that's WP:OR. M.Bitton (talk) 13:31, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 30 August 2023 

message: Requesting the edit of the word Civilian to Citizen. 
Justification: The Police murdered are also civilians under https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian therefore the wording makes it sound like the murdered police were not civilians. This distinction would alleviate any confusion. Tommyboy180 (talk) 18:34, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request correction edit under Modern Use - Used in a terrorist act 

message: I am requesting that the reference  to the Gadsden flag appearing next to a Nazi flag under the header of "right wing use" be removed. As the picture used for reference does not feature a Nazi flag. This is unsubstantiated. 2600:8800:2428:ED00:6105:D62A:C473:6F9E (talk) 15:18, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Take a closer look at the picture; there is indeed a Nazi flag in the middle of the photo. It's even more obvious in this photo.OhNoitsJamie Talk 15:20, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 1 September 2023 

message: Should we include what I've written: "The flag has been commonly parodied, with one version featuring the wording “NO STEP ON SNEK” and a crudely drawn version of the original snake." Featured in this article. It's relatively common to see at political rallies, as well as in online political communities, and was important enough to be the subject of a news investigation. Let me know what everyone thinks. Col99100 (talk) 19:09, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  NO STEP ON SNEK