Talk:Irish name

message: I've added info about Gaeltacht usage. I don't unfortunately know the origins of this or how long it's been around for. I also changed the first line because 'traditional Irish names' to me immediately evoked the likes of Coilin Phadgraig Sheamais rather than Tomas Mac Giolla.Palmiro 22:02, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Gaeltacht names

message: Hello Angr. First off, you have done a fantastic job on this article (which is now largely under the Epithets and Surnames and Prefixes sections. I edited the block writing into italics for purely visual reasons, as it looks better (I think! Hope you agree!) I added the second paragraph under Epithets about Luke More and Luke Beg to fill it out a bit (also because Luke Beg Gibbons is my maternal great-great great grandfather)
I'd love to see any more detail you might wish to add to what you've already put in, because its vastly better than what I originally wrote. Also, the idea of contrasting Gaelic and Anglicized names was a very good idea; I hope you don't mind that I expanded it. 
Looking forward to reading more of your articles, and perhaps even working with you in future. Go raibh maith agat. Fergananim
I also Expanded on the Irish/Anglicised Comparrison with Aindriú/Andrew (My Great Grandfather and Sons Name) and Also My own Name, I was Christened Daniel but have been dubbed Domhainall since I can remember, I also added Aoife and Eva as it is Commonnly used but Eva is Generally accepted as a Slavic name. 194.73.150.2 11:36, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I made some corrections: Aindriú is etymologically the same as Andrew, so I removed it. The most common Irish spellings of your name are Domhnall and Dónall, so I changed that too. As for Eva, it's a Biblical name (the Latinized form of the Greekified form of Hebrew Hawwah), so it's not just Slavic. --Angr/ 16:53, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: 5th/6th July edits

message: There is just something wrong with this article giving an anglicised form for names like Tadhg, Cathal, Sorcha, Aoife etc etc etc. Of all the people I know with these names, I have never once thought of them as Timothy, Charles, Sarah, Eve etc etc etc. Those names are foreign to the person, character and my knowledge of them. They are not their names no more than Charles Windsor is Cathal Windsor. Equally if I know somebody called George, Seoirse would be a foreign name to the person I know. He is just George. Full stop. I doubt I'm alone in the general feeling of alienness these "translations" evoke. If I know somebody called Tadhg he is just Tadhg, and nothing else. This part of the article does not reflect reality in Ireland. El Gringo 02:44, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That reality, however, is comparatively new. For centuries, children named (for example) Tadhg were told when they got to school that their name wasn't Tadhg, it was Timothy. And even today, children named (for example) Sarah are told when they get to school that their "Irish name" (to be used when Irish is spoken) is Sorcha. Angr (talk) 08:54, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Something wrong

message: Surely Fitz- cannot derive from French fils but rather from {Hiberno-)Norman fiz (son)? As can be seen, for example in The Deeds of the Normans in Ireland: "Fiz Coleman, le riche reis" (son of Colmán, the great king). Man vyi 16:56, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure, but didn't the Normans come to Ireland from France?! If you read the article on Fitz you will see that it is in fact a dialectal form of fils.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.120.161.6 (talk) 11:48, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fitz 

message: Just going purely by what my Irish language teacher used to teach us, "Ó" is simply from the Irish ó meaning "of" (not inherently meaning "grandson" at all), and meant "son of" the same as "Mac". "Fitz" was a prefix taken to mean "bastard/illegitimate son of". Given that he moonlighted as a sometime language advisor to the Irish government, I tend to lend weight to his words; is anyone else familiar with these interpretations?
Speed and Sleep (talk) 12:28, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Incorrect, I'm afraid. Ó= grandson/descendent of ('Ní' for daughters) mac= son of ('Nic' for daughters). Fitz means no such thing. Fitz is the Norman version of 'Mac'. Fitzgerald= Mac Gearailt.  Bastards were just referred to by that word or 'base'. 86.42.111.160 (talk) 06:17, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

text: Well, 'ó' meaning 'of', Scottish cognate '(bh)o', is a preposition and isn't declined (though it is conjugated, as some put it). The inflected 'Ó' of the surnames, Scottish cognate 'ogha', is clearly a different word. Also, check the article 'Fitz' for a reference about the 'bastard' meaning. 89.231.116.65 (talk) 01:45, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prefixes 

message: I have a question about Irish Surnames. Many Irish immigrated to Latin America and assimilated to their new home countries. Some Irish immigrants went far to the assimilation process and Spanified their surnames. For Example: O'Donoghue becomes O'Donojú, Sullivan becomes Sólivan, Murphy becomes Morfi, O'Farrell becomes O'Ferral, and O'Brien sometimes becomes Obregón. Should this be added in this article or it is not really that important?     Lehoiberri (talk) 04:20, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting. Ara sure go for it; Dónall Spáinneach Caomhánach would be happy. At least the Spanish showed up in 1602! (1601 if you're a heretic, of course)86.42.111.160 (talk) 06:12, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spanification of Irish Surnames 

message: I have made a small correction to the article. In Irish, neither C nor G are lenited following nic or mhic: Síle Nic Gearailt, Muintir Mhic Gearailt, Máire Nic Cárthaigh, Muintir Mhic Cárthaigh. (See Chapter 10 of Graiméar Gaeilge na mBráithre Críostaí). An Muimhneach Machnamhach (talk) 18:03, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lenition of C and G following Nic/Mhic 

message: Per IMOS:
To avoid constant renaming of articles (and more), keep a neutral point of view, promote consistency in the encyclopedia, and avoid Stroke City-style terms perplexing to those unfamiliar with the dispute, a compromise solution was proposed and accepted by many users[clarify] regarding the Derry/Londonderry name dispute. Use Derry for the city and County Londonderry for the county in articles. The naming dispute can be discussed in the articles when appropriate.
To prevent edit warring and disputes, please consider the above.  If someone does make an edit that conflicts with this, please Assume Good Faith and refrain from labelling as vandalism. GeneralBelly (talk) 18:36, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Derry/Londonderry 

message: "Hassan may have an eastern look but in Ireland it is the anglicized form of Ó hOsáin."
Do you have more information about this unusual Irish surname Hassan. How from Ó hOsáin the name can be anglicized to become Hassan or the other variations? 72.137.225.183 (talk) 02:33, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Irish surname Hassan 

message: I've added a section on additives (although I'm not sure that's the correct term) and I've taken Ryan as an example as there many different Ryan sub-groups in East Limerick and West Tipperary. Most additives is this area are a mixture of place (e.g. Ryan Bog), appearance (Ryan Black), ancestor (Ryan Luke) or trade (Ryan Tailor) and the additive appears after the surname.
I have an idea that additives in West Cork O'Sullivans mainly derive from ancestor and appear before the surname such as in Cork footballers Kevin Jer O'Sullivan and Brendan Jer O'Sullivan. Could anyone confirm this? And would anyone know how similarly-named people are differentiated in other parts of the country? Sean an Scuab (talk) 19:12, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I think its mentioned further up the page how familes will add a nickname etc to their surname to help differentiate between families of the same name. It happened all over the country and still goes on in Mayo and Galway and probably other counties. Jaqian (talk) 09:58, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Additives 

message: Irish name#Notable examples of firstnames and surnames is, at the time I'm writing this, 100% unsourced and contains apparently speculative names that are unencyclopedic.  I am deleting many (most?) of the items in that section, as they are for people who were never even residents of Ireland.  I also intend to delete any other names with no evidence of common usage in Irish-language Wikipedia:Reliable sources.  Removal per Wikipedia guidelines related to WP:OR, WP:RS, and sometimes WP:BLP, including:
* Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Ireland-related articles)#Correct Irish orthography in naming people #3/#4: "It is not acceptable to ... translate the person's forenames or surnames and present this combination as the person's name in Irish.  If someone did not use the Irish version of his or her name, it is not appropriate or encyclopaedic to "invent" such names, as this constitutes original research."
* Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not for things made up one day
Just so people don't think I'm crazy, here are examples of people alleged to possess dual-language names without any reference whatsoever:
* Charles Carroll of Carrollton given as "Cathal Chearbhaill", when his own Wikipedia article notes a different Irish family spelling (Ó Cearbhaill, lords of Éile) with citation for his ancestors.
* Walt Disney given as "Walt d'Isney", an unsourced spelling that looks neither Irish nor Norman French (where it was actually "d'Isigny").
* Henry Ford given as "Énrí Ó Fuarráin", which appears nowhere on Google except on Wikipedia mirrors.
* U.S. President John F. Kennedy and his brothers, all 3 generations beyond immigrant Patrick Kennedy (1823–1858), all given allegedly Irish-language names.  (I suppose they could have shown up in Irish-language news in the 1960s, but that certainly requires a reliable source.)
* Ed O'Neill (Al in Married with Children) given as "Éadbhard Ó Néill".
If I accidentally misjudge who has a legitimate Irish-language name in real-life WP:RS use, re-add with references of course.  For tonight I am leaving people who, at first glance, are likely to have an Irish-language name in normal usage; but, as many of these names involve living people, these names need to get reliable sources soon or be deleted also.  And though I've mentioned mainly Irish-language translation of English-language names, this applies to the opposite list also. --Closeapple (talk) 08:43, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  It is self-evidently absolute nonsense to suggest that Seathrún Céitinn, to take one example above, is a "fake name" with "only mirrors to this article". Anybody familiar with the history of sixteenth- or seventeenth-century Ireland wouldn't say something as silly. 86.42.22.86 (talk) 22:02, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Removing unsourced names of famous people

message: Once again, some folks have added famous people's artificial "Irish names" with no evidence of the people or their parents being referred to with an Irish-language name.  So, to solve this, I've gone through the whole list, removed 39 unsupported examples, and left 34 names in the original list.
It is possible that a few of these people were referred to with an Irish name in Irish literature at some point, but there is no reference to show their full names were used — that is, it seems evident that the sources for the names below were not contemporary Irish, but artificial dictionary conversions in violation of Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Ireland-related articles)#Naming people.
Below is a list of the apparently synthesized names removed.  I've explicitly added an asterisk before each name (a sign to linguists that it is invented) and crossed each name out, so that there is no doubt when someone searches for the name that it is not meant to be repeated without proper sources.
Common name                      	Fake name                        	Google results and comments
Ray Bolger                       	*Réamann Uallas O'Boguidhir      	only this article
Diamond Jim Brady                	*Séamas Buth Chanain Mac Bradaigh	only mirrors of this article
Walter Brennan                   	*Ualtar Aindriú Ó Braonáin       	only Wikipedia, and spelled differently than Moya Brennan's name
Patrick Brontë                   	*Padraig mac Aedh Ó Proinntigh   	born Patrick Brunty and changed it himself to Brontë; no note of him ever using "Ó Proinntigh" or its earlier clan name
Daniel J. Callaghan              	*Dónal J. Ó Cellachán            	only mirrors of this article
William M. Callaghan             	*Liam M. Ó Cellachán             	same as Daniel
Michael Cavanaugh (actor)        	*Mícheál Caomhánach              	no obvious references to the actor (or anyone else notable enough for Wikipedia)
Michael Joe Costello             	*Mícheál Seosamh Mac Coisdealbha 	only mirrors of this article
John Charles Daly                	*Seán Searlás Ó Dálaigh          	only mirrors of this article
James Doohan                     	*Seán Montgomerie Doohan         	only mirrors of this article
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle           	*Artúr Conon Ó Dubhghaill        	only mirrors of this article
Mike Farrell                     	*Mícheál Seosamh Uí Fhearghail   	only mirrors of this article
John Cameron Fogerty             	*Seán Cameron Ó Fogartaigh       	only this article
William Russell Grace            	*Liam Ruiséil Grace              	only mirrors of this article
Sir William Johnson, 1st Baronet 	*Liam Mac Seáin - O’Neill Uí Feá 	only mirrors of this article
Arthur MacMorrough Kavanagh      	*Artúr Mac Murchadha Caomhánach  	only mirrors of this article
Geoffrey Keating                 	*Seathrún Céitinn                	only mirrors of this article
Paul John Keating                	*Pól Seán Céitinn                	only this article
Robert Francis Kennedy           	*Roibeárd Proinsias Ó Cinnéide   	only old mirrors of Wikipedia articles
Edward Moore "Ted" Kennedy       	*Éadbhard Ó Mordha Ó Cinnéide    	only mirrors of Wikipedia articles
Colm Meaney                      	*Colm Ó Maonaigh                 	only mirrors of Wikipedia articles; but there's an unrelated bicycler
Annie Moore (immigrant)          	*Aine Ní Mordha                  	only this article
Audie Murphy                     	*Audie Ó Murchú                  	only mirrors of this article
John Murtha                      	*Seán Ó Muircheartaigh           	only mirrors of this article; also some unrelated Irish people
Pat O'Brien (actor)              	*Liam Seosamh Padraic Ó Briain   	only mirrors of this article
John Carroll O'Connor            	*Seán Chearbhaill Ó Conchobhair  	only mirrors of this article
Gerald S. O'Loughlin             	*Gearailt S. Ó Laighin           	only mirrors of this article
Eugene McCarthy                  	*Eoghan Seosamh Mac Carthaigh    	only this article
Edward O'Neill, 2nd Baron O'Neill	*Éadbhard Ó Néill                	only mirrors of this article
Francis O'Neill                  	*Proinsias Ó Néill               	mirrors of this article, and an article at  noting an album's haphazard changing of people's names into Irish
John F. O'Ryan                   	*Seán Phroinsias Ó Riain         	only mirrors of this article
Hayden Rorke                     	*Liam Énrí Ó Ruairc              	only mirrors of this article
Cornelius Ryan                   	*Conchúir Ó Riain                	only mirrors of this article
James M. Gavin                   	*Séamus Ó Riain                  	(born James Nally Ryan); only mirrors of this article and mentions of Séamus Ó Riain, President of the Gaelic Athletic Association
Paddy Ryan (boxer)               	*Pádraig Ó Riain                 	only mirrors of this article; but lots of others for people really named "Pádraig Ó Riain"
John L. Sullivan                 	*Seán Labhrás Ó Súilleabháin     	only mirrors of this article
Spencer Tracy                    	*Spencer Ó Treasaigh             	only mirrors of this article
M. Emmet Walsh                   	*Mícheál Emmett Breathnach       	only mirrors of this article
William Butler Yeats             	*Liam de Buitléir Yeats          	only mirrors of this article
In addition, there is John Sullivan (claimed as *Seán Ó Súilleabháin), but the American-born American revolution general's signature looks like "Jn Sullivan" or "Jn oSullivan".  It is amazing how many American-born celebrities were in this list.  Must be some kind of "more Irish than the Irish" phenomenon among some "helpful" American editors. --Closeapple (talk) 21:45, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  It is self-evidently absolute nonsense to suggest that Seathrún Céitinn, to take one example above, is a "fake name" with "only mirrors to this article". Anybody familiar with the history of sixteenth- or seventeenth-century Ireland wouldn't say something as silly. 86.42.22.86 (talk) 22:02, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: More comprehensive removal

message: As far as I remember, de Búrca, de Róiste, de Tiúit, de Brún, de Faoite, de Barra, Tóibín, Mac Coisdealbha among many others were all on this page. I think they should be returned to it. 93.107.7.115 (talk) 10:28, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Removal of [[Hiberno-Norman|Norman-Irish]] surnames?

message: Shouldn't the anglicized version of Liam (Will) or Uilliam/Uiliam (William) be shown?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.78.213.31 (talk) 03:50, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Liam - William 

message: This has been returned to the article with no attempt to justify its encyclopaedic relevance.  It is an incomplete and uninformative list.  I would suggest that a third opinion be sought, but maybe Angr, or anyone else who thinks there is some merit in this inclusion, will actually try to defend its inclusion. Kevin McE (talk) 23:02, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: If there is no second opinion, I can't refer it to third opinion.  If I am asked to bring it to talk under BRD, someone else needs to discuss.  Alternatively, if no-one is willing to put the encyclopaedic case for the inclusion of this section, then I will delete the section as uncontested. Kevin McE (talk) 09:04, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: After looking at everything, I've gotten this idea: we transwiki the surname list to Wiktionary and that is it. What do you say? m'encarta (t) 23:07, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: If such lists are something that Wiktionary admits, I have no objection. Kevin McE (talk) 17:16, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Where is the lovely list of Irish Surnames gone? I looked at the page history and the list was still there on the 21st December 2014. It was one of the most useful lists of Irish Surnames anywhere on the internet. Wikipedia has loads of pages that list different types of surnames, and the list should be put back. If the list doesn't fit properly on a Wikipedia called "Irish name", then the list should be put on a brand new page called "List of Irish Surnames". Common you guys, don't delete what is a very useful list of Irish Surnames for anyone doing surname research or family history. Please put the list back on the page, or create the new page and just copy and paste the "List of Irish Surnames". John37309 (talk) 09:40, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

text: Removed (most of) the made-up stuff again from 2016.  Per WP:PROVEIT, they are not to be re-added without Wikipedia:Reliable sources.  Imagining what a specific person's English name would be in Irish Gaelic, based on generalizations of how some words in the name are usually connected, is a violation of WP:SYNTHESIS and has no place on Wikipedia.  A reliable source would be something like a real, mainstream publication, like a long-standing popular newspaper, referring to a specific person naturally with a specific name; or a person signing their own name in Irish or actually using their own Gaelic-based name. --Closeapple (talk) 07:48, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of names 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I know the plural of Ó/Ua is Uí, which triggers lenition (thus Uí Dhónaill, Uí Mhurchú, etc.), and the plural of Mac is Mhic, which is apparently lenited by default (is it short for Clann Mhic?) and triggers lenition in the same way as Nic (thus Mhic Mhuireadhaigh but Mhic Cárthaigh), but what are the plurals of Ní and Nic, and do they trigger lenition in the same way as Uí and Mhic?  I highly doubt Mná Ó/Mac would ever really be used (unless you're a polygamist – but then it would be Uí/Mic), but those are correct – right? Esszet (talk) 22:58, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  The plural 

message: I have been working on . I noticed that a lot of biographies show Antaine as the Irish name for Anthony/Tony. However, on this page the example shown presents Antoine Ó Raifteiri as an example of Antoine being the Irish name for Anthony.  Can someone clarify this. Also, is there a female Irish name for this family of names?--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:00, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd say Antaine is the usual spelling; Antoine is a rare spelling presumably influenced by the French. There are also the forms Antóin and Antain. I don't know of any feminine equivalent. —Mahāgaja · talk 19:10, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: We already have Antoin in the template and there are no biographies on WP with Antain. May I ask why the page presents an example of the rare spelling rather than the usual spelling?  Also are there popular surname variations within this family of names. I see a page for Darragh MacAnthony and George McAnthony, but I don't see any related surnames that have multiple subjects.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:28, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

text: User:Mahagaja, I should have pinged.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:38, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  I suppose the reason the rare spelling is the only one found on this page is that Antoine Ó Raifteiri is much more famous than the various men named Antaine listed at that page (all 20th- and 21st-century athletes, few if any of whom actually use the Irish form of their name). I don't get the impression it's a particularly common name in Ireland, unlike Romance-speaking Catholic countries where you can't swing a dead cat without hitting an Antoine or Antonio. —Mahāgaja · talk 21:53, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: User:Mahagaja beware of dead cats.  Anthony has been among the top 100 male baby names in Ireland every year from 1998 to 2018.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:40, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, okay. I haven't been to Ireland since 2000, and I wasn't friends with very many 2-year-olds while I was there. —Mahāgaja · talk 15:34, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: User:Mahagaja Well not too many babies tell you their names. Usually, their parents make the announcements. Also, the family of names was most popular in the 1970s in the U.S. so it is most likely that it was more popular when you were there than after 2000.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:23, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

text: I'm absolutely uncertain as to the frequency of Anthony as a baby name in Ireland - but I'm more uncertain that thinkbabynames.com is a reliable source for support of data. Irish Melkite (talk) 05:17, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anthony