Talk:Joseph W. Tkach

message: Can someone please add the phonetic pronunciation of Tkach's name?  I doubt that an uninformed reader (like myself) would be able to pronounce his name from the spelling alone! Wikipeterproject 07:32, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Should it really be an /ɒ/? Now most American accents merge /ɒ/ and /ɑ(ː)/, but which would be the proper pronunciation in an accent without this merger? 1700-talet (talk) 12:54, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Pronunciation

message: I've become aware that Raising the Ruins is now being given prominent open face displays in major book stores like Barnes and Noble, and is now getting into the airport shops. This development has come much sooner than anticipated, so we are going to have to really scramble to get this article up to date. This book, as mentioned above, uses internal WCG memos and emails obtained through discovery, along with courtroom testimony of WCG officials----by far the best source material this article has ever had at it's disposal--to catalogue the transformation of the Worldwide Church of God.
Again, this has all developed so rapidly--the book has only been in print for about 2 1/2 months, and already it's being given "open face" display, and is already appearing at airport Barnes and Nobles. We are going to have to really scramble to get this article up to date.
Any ideas or comments are welcome and encouraged.
The fourth pargraph after the (new) heading "Tkach's doctrinal Changes" must now be totally rewritten or deleted.  A discussion on this must begin immediately.  In the meantime, I will be working on an up to date, well-cited improvment to that passage, with the aim of inserting it by the middle of January.
67.80.157.45 18:36, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Raising the Ruins Increases Its Visibility

message: I have wathced this artilce for a few months now from the time a peer review was requested.  It is still on my watchlist and I visit the page occassionally.  I noticed a bit of dialogue on the Talk page but in my opinion the dialogue is getting very difficult to follow.  Apparently a new book has come out (Raising the Ruins) and may be a source of information.  Can we expect that based on the title of this book the book itself will not be biased?  I did not know anything about Tkach before seeing this article a few months ago but I was familiar with Armstrong, Worldwide Church of God, the publication The Plain Truth', had heard some of the radio broadcasts a few years ago, etc.  In fact it was interesting to read what had happened because some of these things had dissappeared from view and I had wondered where they went.  In any case the talk page now has me confused and I do not understand what are the current issues?  Is the discussion regarding the article NPOV or is it about How and whether information from the recently published book might be used?  Mfields1 01:23, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Hard to follow the Talk page

message: When it comes to the potential bias of any book as a secondary source, the encyclopedia article writer/ editor (and hopefully most historians) always have a hierarchy of the kinds of sources they uses to build from and cite. Primary sources are the best source for the author, and there is a heirarchy within that even. In terms hierarchy of sources and this article on TKach, I don't think anyone can think of a type of primary source material better than that used and cited exaustively throughout the book  Raising the Ruins: That is, Tkach's WCG employees' testimony in a court of law--under penalty of perjury, and internal WCG memos and emails and minutes obtained through the legal discovery process of the court trial (click on that link for a good, succinct Wikipedia definition of "discovery"). Raising the Ruins cost me less that $13 and is available everywhere, so check out whether or not it presents "the facts" in a fair or convincing way (it is a fascinating, riveting read by the way--mixed with some humor, and well written). You'll see, through common sense, that internal WCG memos and emails and court testimony, and a simple editng history of the doctrinal changes to books and booklets all cannot lie or spin, and no amount of emotional and intellectual investment on one side of the debate by the author will take away from the value of such fabulous source material. One final note, study carefully the source material used thus far in this article (mentioned at times on this discussion page by the editors), and you'll see that it is making extensive use of the writings (versions of events) of the people who apparently have the MOST TO HIDE, including a book written by Joseph Tkach Jr. on the subject of the transformation. These books of course are their personal accounts--hearsay--not based on courtroom testimony and documents obtained through the discovery process. As you will see, there is a clash between their version of events, and what eventually came out in the court trial--things they probably hoped would never see the light of day--or perhaps, unfortuanately, were to brazen to care as long as they were able to hoard the church's financial assets.
If someone wants to take the time to get photocopies of the actual court documents for the Philadelphia Church of God, we could cite them directly. We may be able to do that anyway by using the endnores of raisinfg the Ruins--I'll havr to check inot that (As a history major, I was able to do that if I remember right).  Regardless, the citations in Raising the Ruins are by FAR the best thing that has ever happened to the accuracy of this article.  67.80.157.45 09:05, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The Historian's Hierarchy of Source Material

message: :Image:Tkach3bHWA.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot (talk) 02:31, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Tkach3bHWA.gif

message: :Image:Tkach5preaching.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 02:31, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Tkach5preaching.gif

message: :Image:Tkachw1.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 02:32, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Tkachw1.gif

message: Substituted at 20:34, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I'm looking through this article for WP:URFA/2020, a drive to revitalize older featured articles.  I'm a bit concerned by the degree of which this article relies on two somewhat-affiliated sources: a book written by the subject's son, and the Ambassador Report, which based on this appears to be a series of exposé pieces by a group of former Ambassador College students seeking to reveal stuff the WCG was hiding.  The fact that this article is largely prepared on those two sources, one of which is clearly affiliated with Tkach and the other of which is really too close to the situation to be independent is concerning. Hog Farm  Talk 23:00, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sourcing concerns