Talk:Barmy Army

message: Pardon me if I'm missing something, but as an American I am rather unaware of the context of the phrase "Barmy Army". If as it says below in the comment by Simon Lamb that the phrase is widely-used, could something be added to refer to its broader context? I'm fairly sure that the phrase existed before the circa-1990 history related in this article, since The Exploited's first album (Punk's Not Dead) has a song called "Exploited Barmy Army", and that was published in 1981.
I am vaguely aware that barmy is an existant word, something like a synonym of frothy, and I am also aware that the British have a fondness for rhyming slang (not that barmy rhymes with army, but one could imagine someone thinking that it does)... but if the origin of this particular phrase is simply lost in the murk of pub-lore, then it should at least be stated as such in the article. Or that's what I think.
Eric Fraker 05:47, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I remember the phrase 'barmy army' used in playground chants in London in the early 1960's. 'Barmy' meant 'nutty' or 'slightly mad'. I have no recollection of it being affiliated with any particular football club but later appropriated by many and eventually by this rabble of middle-class cricket fans. I suspect it's real origins go much further back in history than is hinted at here.   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.141.82.164 (talk) 21:33, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Context, please?

message: Am not sure if this is the right template, but this section definitly doesn't read like an encylcopedia. e.g. "We raised..." The One00 12:23, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Milestones

message: This section seems to me to be irrelevant to the article. The Army's chants reflect that many of Australia's citizens originate from convict colonies. As with any 'humorous' jibe at another nation, the chanters would hardly be expected to enter into any level of historical analysis; most probably are of Australians' origins. Aside from that, this section seems a slightly strange socio-historical intrusion into an article which is unrelated to any political issues. Unless anyone can provide a referenced article or piece of research which suggests that this is a notable aspect of Barmy Army history/practice, then it should stay deleted.
Imagine having a section in the article on Star Wars which speculated that George Lucas was unaware of the message sent by Luke Skywalker wearing white and Darth Vader wearing black. Just because someone notices this kind of thing, doesn't mean that it is notable.Martpol 13:08, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Removal of "Irony" section

message: Whilst I think the matter speaks for itself, I have included references to Australian genealogical websites which affirm the origin of convict transportation to Australia.  I had previously included the reference to the Barmy Army chants. I kindly ask you to desist in deleting this section.  As an alternative, feel free to include your own positive examples of the Barmy Army's approach to irony. User:Timmiorusselli 
*Sorry, but this is still not worthy of inclusion unless you or another contributor can actually provide references to (a) whether there is a general belief that the Barmy Army's chants are 'ironic' or (b) whether this 'irony' is 'lost' on the Army's members. Otherwise, this is pure speculation. I would "include my own positive examples of the Barmy Army's approach to irony" if I really thought they were being ironic, but I don't. For now, I'm leaving in the note about the chants themselves, but removing the links (this isn't the right place for information about Australian penal colonies, except for the internal link that I have now established). - Martpol 12:26, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Re reinclusion of "Irony" section

message: I've removed the words "traditionally minded" from the sentence "However, some traditionally minded cricket followers find the loud, repetitive chanting of the Barmy Army annoying, tedious, and disruptive.", since one does not necessarily have to be "traditionally minded"  to feel this way. I've also added a sentence expanding on the misgivings some have about the BA, since the article is notable for its lack of balance in this regard. I've tried to keep these comments neutral POV by simply saying "some feel..." or similar. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Scholiwiki (talk • contribs) 17:48, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Changes to comments reflecting criticism of Barmy Army 

message: Honestly, what is the point in this page? I think some people forget that wikipedia content is supposed to be encyclopedic! I think a large number of people probably still associate the term with football for starters, regardless of whether this group has called themselves the barmy army. Secondly, to me and I'm sure to many others its like a group of guys putting up a wikipedia page of themselves called "The Lads" or something and writing "The Lads are a crazy group of guys from Kent who like to go out and have a good time on a Saturday. Notable nights out include meeting Prince Harry in 2005" etc. I actually think this page should be deleted or moved (to Barmy Army (Cricket)) unless somebody can explain why the widely used term Barmy Army should just apply to this lot. It reads like its been written by a member and the neutrality seems suspect if you ask me as well. --Simon Lamb 14:22, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Like the rest of the wikipedia community, I am pleased that you now have a girlfriend.  However I endorse your view that this article needs to stay and should not be deleted.  Kind regards--Calabraxthis (talk)  21:08, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Importance? 

message: Over the last several years, numerous anecdotes about the Barmy Army and its alcohol-fuelled loutish antics have graced the text of this article.  Over time, a large majority have been removed too on the grounds of WP:NOTABLE and WP:NOTNEWS.  This is not to say that those same anecdotes are untrue or are not "fact", it's just that they lack the features which Wikipedia requires so as to dignify an article with encyclopaedic merit.
I recently reverted an edit on the article which stated During England's tour of West Indies in 2004, some members of the Barmy Army started chanting "Britain never, never shall be slaves" as an obvious racist insult to the black West Indian fans and quoted what clearly seems a reputable source.  However the final phrase constituted POV and it was duly removed.  I see than an IP address has now re-included most of the anecdote in the History section of the article but without the offending POV wording.
Nevertheless, on its own, this new edit is just another trivial factoid about what the Barmy Army gets up to when it has had too much to drink.  The IP editor has also added a new companion factoid In a test match between England and Pakistan at Headingley, 1992, some barmy army members paraded a pig's head on a stick.  This is likewise mere trivia.  If such factoids are worthy of inclusion, they need to comply with each of WP:TRIVIA, WP:NOTABLE and WP:NOTNEWS otherwise they should be deleted.  
If the IP author feels strongly that they are worthy of inclusion then s/he should set out an argument on this talk page which discusses their broader relevancy to the subject matter of the article.  I don't doubt that some sort of case can be put here.
But anecdotes by themselves are just anecdotes.  I myself attended a Test cricket match in Sydney and one afternoon witnessed 14 members of the Barmy Army being arrested for a variety of ornery misdemeanours and acts of indecency out of a total of only 15 arrests made at the SCG that day..... the notable irony being that the match was between Australia and the West Indies..... England was not even playing.
However notable this may be, along with tedious chanting and pigs' heads on sticks, they are just pieces of trivia, and by and of themselves don't add anything encyclopaedic to this article in their present form.  Kind regards--Calabraxthis (talk)  07:05, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Loutish anecdotes

message: Call me old fashioned but I fail to see how drunken England cricket supporters chanting abuse at both Australian Cricket players AND Australian supporters based solely on their place of origin can be construed as anything else than racist behaviour???  
For the record... I'm not Australian.  
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.165.70.148 (talk) 12:58, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not racist, just confrontational..... and something that Australians also take pride in (counting me amongst such number).  Unless the behaviour degenerates to the mindless thuggery of club football in England (projectiles, vomit, mutual crowd-flagellation and all), I suspect the Australian cricket team can take this in its stride.  Kind regards--Calabraxthis (talk)  21:04, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: RACIST BEHAVIOUR BY THE 'BARMY ARMY'

message: According to this page http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/theashes/8179469/The-Ashes-2010-10-reasons-why-the-Ashes-is-better-than-the-World-Cup.html in the Daily Telegraph, 3 Dec, they've been made "commercial partners" and their trumpeter is an accredited part of their "entertainment package".  I'd add the information myself but I haven't got the hang of doing citations, so can someone who knows what they're doing add it for me, please.  MidlandLinda (talk) 22:40, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cricket Australia make the Barmy Army "commercial Partners" 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The article has a fairly confused account of the origins of the Barmy Army. It needs to be reorganised.--Jack Upland (talk) 08:41, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origins