Talk:In Flanders Fields

message: Duplicate pages: this and In Flanders Fields (poem).
Charles Matthews 16:28, 4 Oct 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: Not any more. Ellsworth 21:16, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)

text: In the process of improving the layout of this discussion page, I added a section heading to this discussion - Boyd Reimer (talk) 12:39, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion started Oct 2003

message: Placed by an admitted UNencyclodidiot to cause disruption. The 2 artciles are not in any way similar as 1 is about a poem written in 1915 and the other is about an American cemetary. Since the U.S. did not enter the war until 1917, the poem was not not inspired by any U.S. casulties. Fair Deal 19:47, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Tag

message: Shouldn't the poem be spelled in Flanders' Fields, since it is about the fields of Flanders?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Leorge W Belch (talk • contribs) 
:No. The location he wrote about is called "Flanders Field", without an apostrophe. Additionally, being an artistic work, the poet named it as he saw fit. --Ds13 21:10, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, no :)) The poem is called 'In Flanders Fields (no apostrophe and a plural). And, yes, the poet can call the poem whatever he likes. Roger 12:05, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The answer is no, but the real reason is that, in English, a proper noun may be used adjectivally. For example, a tourist could correctly say: "I had some bad experiences on Brussels buses." As another example, I might compile a list of California governors. Often, we even stretch the rule by applying it to common nouns, as in "women Wikipedians" -- though this is deprecated in formal writing. Arena Alba (talk) 18:03, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

text: To be strictly accurate, I should add that McCrae could properly have chosen to use an apostrophe, denoting the possessive, but he chose, equally properly, not to do so, and we must respect his preference. Note that there is a subtle difference, in meaning and in mood, between the two. Poetically and evocatively, I think McCrae made the right choice. The alternative would not have been absolutely dreadful. But it would not have been as effective, IMO. Arena Alba (talk) 19:29, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  In Flanders' Fields? 

message: I'm not sure the term "near-mythical status" in Canada is accurate. It's a widely known and respected poem, but "mythical"?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.79.78.125 (talk) 22:00, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Near-Mythical Status in Canada"? 

message: Anyone else think this criticism is out of place in this article?  Maybe a separate criticism section?  I haven't run across any other criticisms in the introductory paragraph of any other poem article.
I'm not sure I appreciate the criticism, I think it is out of place.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sixer Fixer (talk • contribs) 01:32, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fussell criticism? 

message: I removed "For the Fallen" from this section, since it was in fact published the year before.--Rallette 11:30, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Response poems 

message: I've added a photo I took at Eilean Donan castle - the seat of Clan MacRae - listing the dead from the clan in WWI and featuring (of course) a quote from In Flanders Fields. I just wish my camera had more resolution - a bit crisper and the names of the dead would be legible, not just the quote. Adam Cuerden talk 00:06, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image 

message: As someone noted under "Response poems", the song "Marieke" by Jacques Brel, was written in french and flemish, and did not reference "In Flanders Fields" apart from the setting.  But there is a musical "Jacques Brel is alive and well and living in Paris" , for which I found that Mort Shuman translated the songs into english .  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ghp (talk • contribs) 13:00, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  References in popular culture 

message: Just saying that the date of December 7 is definetly wrong. I was at my local reference library researching this poem and I looked up the orinial periodical. The date published is definetly December 8th.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.156.13.189 (talk) 04:15, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Punch Pulication Date 

message: what species of poppies grew in the battlefields?--Sonjaaa (talk) 22:24, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Papaver rhoeas, the corn poppy. Mahousu (talk) 21:58, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Correct, Papaver rhoeas, known (but only in some countries) as the corn poppy!  I would also like to add that the poppies did not just grow in profusion in the battlefields because that was a geographical area where they grow. The poppy grows in profusion where the ground has been disturbed (e.g. where the fields have been recently ploughed or - as in this case - where the ground was disturbed by bombardment of war). 78.151.142.95 (talk) 00:12, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: What species of poppies??

message: Would anyone disagree if this page was restructured ie with a criticisms and explanation section section?--ARBAY (talk) 14:31, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Go for it; yours is definitely better. Mahousu (talk) 18:24, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Restructuring

message: I looked at the French version, and it seems that it has a different context, meaning and leel of power.  I think we should somehow mention this, but I am not good at writing Wiki.
With the field d' honor, the poppies are strewn with batch in batch Near the crosses; and in l' space the become larks weary Their songs mix with the whistle Howitzers. We died, We who thought the day before encor' With our parents, our friends, C' is we who rest here, With the field d' honor. With you young people disillusioned, With you to carry l' streamer And to keep at the bottom of l' heart taste of living in freedom. Accept the challenge, if not The poppies will fade With the field d' honor.
That's the French version translated on Babelfish.  (how do I link this to Babekfish???)
Tangmeisterjr (talk) 15:15, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Babelfish is sometimes of limited value to give a general idea of the meaning of a foreign text, but the above "translation" is laughable.  I suppose it might be appropriate to include something more about Au champ d'honneur, either as part of the In Flanders Fields article, or else as a separate article in the English Wikipedia.  In any case, though, a translation into English would need to be done by someone who really knows French — don't anyone dare copy (or link to) this chunk of Babelfish barf.  Richwales (talk) 19:47, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Add something about French version so different and different meaning? 

message: Charles Ives composed a song of In Flanders Fields (premiered in 1917). Maybe other composers did likewise. Should this be added into the Popular Culture section or elsewhere? Glatisant (talk) 18:49, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I added an "as song" section as there is a musical score from 1918 with music by Frank E. Tours. TeriEmbrey (talk) 21:34, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Charles Ives 

message: ====We Shall Keep the Faith====
Slight date discrepancy 1915 (in current article) or 1918?? ("We Shall Keep the Faith" article)
"On Nov. 9, 1918--two days before the armistice was signed ending World War I--Michael  was reading the Ladies Home Journal and saw a poem entitled "We Shall Not Sleep" (which was later called "In Flanders Fields") written by Col. John McCrae...Moved by what she read, Michael took a pen and wrote the following poem in response" <BR>
Ref: Digital Library of Georgia/University of Georgia Which is this articles ref #3
Other on-line sources of the poem make no specific mention of the date it was written. Official Ozzie Army site <BR>
The Moina Michael article makes NO reference to the date of writing.
This site has several 'reply' poems  if anyones interested. --220.101.28.25 (talk) 05:14, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Date of the 'Reply' Poem by Moina Michael 

message: Slight date discrepancy 1915 (in current article) or 1918?? ("We Shall Keep the Faith" article)
"On Nov. 9, 1918--two days before the armistice was signed ending World War I--Michael  was reading the Ladies Home Journal and saw a poem entitled "We Shall Not Sleep" (which was later called "In Flanders Fields") written by Col. John McCrae...Moved by what she read, Michael took a pen and wrote the following poem in response" <BR>
Ref: Digital Library of Georgia/University of Georgia Which is this articles ref #3
Other on-line sources of the poem make no specific mention of the date it was written. Official Ozzie Army site <BR>
The Moina Michael article makes NO reference to the date of writing.
This site has several 'reply' poems  if anyones interested. --220.101.28.25 (talk) 05:14, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: We Shall Keep the Faith

message: The article claims that the date of composition was 3 May 1915, but the tracing held by the Imperial War Museum and available in the great war archive http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ww1lit/collections/item/1643 claims a date of 29 April 1915 for the date of composition. This would make the memorial wrong as well, of course, as it says 3 May. See http://www.flickr.com/photos/jasmic/1962295426/ for a photo of that (CC licensed, maybe use in article?) Since it seems to be unclear I suggest that the article say that the date of composition is 'around 29 April 1915' or maybe document the controversy  JCummings (talk) 11:04, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Date of Composition Wrong 

message: The Wikipedia documentation on How to respond to a tag of "citation needed" contains this quote: "... most editors are willing to wait about a month to see whether a citation can be provided." The date of one tag was May 2010, which is now well beyond the waiting time to remove unsourced content. - Boyd Reimer (talk) 12:53, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Waiting time to remove unsourced content 

message: Since this poem is set in Flanders I would suggest to add the category "Belgium in fiction". "In Flanders Fields" has become such a staple of World War I popular culture that the poem increased the fame of Flanders' fields outside the Belgian borders. I'm well aware that World War I isn't fiction, but poems aren't classified as "non-fiction": they are fiction. Compare this to several books and films about World War I like "All Quiet On The Western Front" or "Paths Of Glory" which are also considered to be "fiction", even though the stories take place during a real life event. And even though "In Flanders Fields" describes genuine loss and sadness about the brutal reality of war it is still a romanticized version of the real horrors, due to its poetic language. Since other cultural works with Belgium as it's setting are listed in "Category:Belgium in fiction" I feel "In Flanders Fields" should be included.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.177.191.93 (talk) 17:25, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Well that stirred up a heated debate! Oh well. Thanks for raising it and for your tolerance. For the record, I still don't quite like this category - I find it impossible to see how it quite works to categorize it as fiction despite your sensible arguments. If we had a category for "Belgium in literature" or "Belgium in poetry" then, obviously, I'd be quite happy with one of those. Tell you what though - if you add it, and I don't like it - no-one will die! I won't revert it again. No-one will suddenly become unable to find the work, millions of schoolchildren will not fail their exams, the war will not break out again - you and I will not even have a fist fight over it! So I think I would suggest you just ignore my grumbling, re-instate your category, and see what happens. We may or may not hear if anyone else likes it, or doesn't, or whatever ... but in the meantime the Internet will probably not break. Thanks again for your civilized approach to this. Happy editing! Cheers DBaK (talk) 13:36, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Suggestion: "Category:Belgium in fiction"

message: I believe the quote from the poem on the wall of the Montreal Canadiens' dressing room is relevant to this article.  This factoid was originally part of a section named "In popular culture", but that section was [ removed] several months ago.  Comments?  Richwales (talk) 15:50, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree. It's relevant but needs to be cited. BC  talk to me 16:03, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It was removed because it was mostly unsourced and as as per Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Trivia sections. Can you explain why its relevant - its quoted everywhere. Are the Montreal Canadian in some way affiliated with the poem or is  it that just use it. Perhaps mention in the Montreal Canadian article - but to mention it here seems there is a special reason they do so and non is given. Just trivia not for an encyclopedia - the same thing is written on the walls  Ottawa and Toronto city hall- they use the poem at minor hockey games and play it in malls during this time -get my meaning...why is this one relevant??Moxy (talk) 16:07, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  In popular culture / Montreal Canadiens 

message: I looked up the source at a university library to find this quote and couldn't. I scoured through the pages of the entire book. Can anyone provide me with the correct source of this quote? Otherwise, it should be deleted. It's VERY misleading.
http://mcgill.worldcat.org/title/in-flanders-fields-the-story-of-john-mccrae/oclc/13667611?referer=di&ht=edition
Prescott, John F. (1985), In Flanders Fields: The Story of John McCrae, Erin, Ontario: Boston Mills Press,   — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bleedcanadiens (talk • contribs) 23:26, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The citation names the page: surely someone could easily check this? Please do! (I have, however, failed in a brief look for on-line full texts of this book) Another question is how reliable the book itself is. PJTraill (talk) 12:15, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  He stated in a letter: "I hope I stabbed a [French] Canadian with my vote."[26] 

message: The lede says "It is one of the most popular and most quoted poems from the war."  Unsourced - and what other popme from the war contends for "the most" instead of "one of the most"? --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 11:14, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  what else is quoted? 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 6 external links on In Flanders Fields. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120307040419/http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/history/firstwar/mccrae/earlyyears to http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/history/firstwar/mccrae/earlyyears
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121007202546/http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/history/firstwar/mccrae/flanders to http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/history/firstwar/mccrae/flanders
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120226023637/http://www.army.gov.au/traditions/documents/inflandersfield_1.htm to http://www.army.gov.au/traditions/documents/inflandersfield_1.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121026074045/http://www.veterans.gc.ca/fra/histoire/premiereguerre/vimy/poeme to http://www.veterans.gc.ca/fra/histoire/premiereguerre/vimy/poeme
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20151117025041/https://www.canadapost.ca/cpo/mc/personal/collecting/stamps/2009/2009_Lest_We_Forget.jsf to https://www.canadapost.ca/cpo/mc/personal/collecting/stamps/2009/2009_Lest_We_Forget.jsf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120511063341/http://legion.ca/Poppy/campaign_e.cfm to http://www.legion.ca/Poppy/campaign_e.cfm
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 15:25, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I'd like to remove the recording from this article until it can be replaced with something of higher quality. Unfortunately, the current recording is not accurate to the text of the poem. Esouder (talk) 09:48, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not hearing any opposition, I'm going to go ahead and do that. Esouder (talk) 08:57, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: @Esouder: I've found a recording of the version of the poem in the article on LibriVox. I've added it to the article. ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me!  02:31, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removing recording