Talk:Outhouse

message: I came to this article to find the history of the outhouse (or more specifically if there was a common name for what people used before J.D. Rockafeller popularized the use of the outhouse,) and found... nothing.  Scanning this article, one would just assume that, as long as humans existed, there have been outhouses... which can't be right.  It's quite possible that the answer is buried under the piles of trivia that is this article, but it seems doubtful.  
Wait, hold it, I'm being mean.  I know a lot of people over a large amount of time put this article together.  There's plenty of stuff here about why an outhouse is useful, and how an outhouse works.  It, however, doesn't bother to explain why outhouses were so crucial to the productivity of rural areas during the Reconstruction time period of U.S. History, for example, because of how it helped to stop the spread of parasites.  It also doesn't appear to be very interested in the modern day difficulties of putting outhouses in third world countries to help prevent the spread of deadly disease.  That sort of material has got to be more important to an encyclopedia than camp songs and unique construction configurations.
Jmgariepy (talk) 11:58, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: History

message: I don't know if every Kingdom in the SCA Society for Creative Anachronism used the word "Biffy" but when I was in the SCA during the early to mid '90's I'd hear the term "Biffy" used a lot for modern chemical toilets rented for a weekend or week long camping event.  For the record, I was in the Kingdom of An-Tir (At the time at least, that covered Washington, Oregon, Idaho in the USA, and British Columbia, Alberta and I think at least part of Saskatchewan in Canada.  My ex is from Canada and was also active in the SCA, she used the term "Biffy" a lot, and I'd hear the term at Canadian events.  There was an event, the "An-Tir/West war" that was an event we shared with Kingdom of the West (Northern California) and if memory serves me right they used the term "Biffy" as well.  98.145.238.99 (talk) 11:37, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Biffy

message: A brief comment - Carry On up the Khyber might suggest a slang derivation for Kybo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.88.202.5 (talk • contribs) 07:24, 14 August 2006
:Is Kybo from the coffee can?  Note re Kybo coffee.  7&6=thirteen (talk) 22:10, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: "Carry On Up The Khyber" was a British film in the "Carry On" series, and starred Sid James, Kenneth Williams, and a lot of awful puns. The Khyber Pass is a real place, but the expression (complete or just 'khyber') is also Cockney rhyming slang for arse (in British English, 'pass' rhymes with 'arse'). Kenneth Williams plays the Khasi of Kalabar, and sits on a throne, whereby 'khasi' (also spelled 'karzey') and 'throne' are slang words for toilet.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.170.149.28 (talk) 22:03, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: A brief comment, Kybo

message: It seems that people have been adding any little bit of info or simply personal opinion to this article wherever they please, specifically the "Design and construction" segment. It seems we may of had a bit of a petty argument and it made a mess.
Fixed.  At least the part about the moon shaped hole in the door which seemed the worst offender. I wasn't one of the original contributers so I felt fine rewriting it and shortening it. Jerdwyer (talk) 02:46, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article has gone to shit. 

message: Design and Construction
Third Point
The only location, and therefore inferred people mentioned in this was Germany.  Is this carrying over to imply Germany in this statement of illiteracy?
Wikijimmy is confused.  Only slightly, though.  The rest of that strange human emotion is filled with hamburgers.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikijimmy (talk • contribs) 00:52, 3 November 2006
The use of catalogs was comparatively recent compared to the existence of outhouses.  Outhouses have been around long before moveable print.  But that does not negate there use (along with newspapers) by people who had nothing better than a left or a corn cob.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.219.182.66 (talk) 02:03, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Illiteracy, zuh? 

message: If you take a look at the article, I have taken the liberty of largely rewriting great portions of it.  I also put in more citations, and addressed lots of issues (e.g., legal and cultural) that were  not addressed before.  I think that your concerns are generally being addressed.  Please take a look and see if yo can come up with any thing that we've missed.  Thanks.  I'm new to Wiki, and have not yet signed up for a user name.
Put in a new book and a few articles.
I also went into a lot of other articles and inserted cross references to this article.
Finally, I would respectfully agree with the idea that Aldaco should be merged into Outhouse.  I for one don't see the need for the redundancy, and I would submit that the Outhouse article as presently constituted is far superior.
Call me -- S from Michigan for now
 Serious request.  Some years ago I read an article in Colonial Williamsburg's magazine (to which I have now linked in the article) about the collective toilet habits of our ancestors.  They had large and sometimes elaborate outhouses constructed with many holes set in long benches.  A high bench for the adults and shorter benches for the children.  See pictures in article.  They all used the facilities *together* as a true social occasion.  Recently I have been reading about 18th century England and found reference to the same practice there.  Specifically it was a 1730s woodcut commentary on English playwrights which had scripts of plays nailed to the wall of an outhouse.  This outhouse also had multiple seats, really just holes in a single long chest-type bench.  I have now told you all I know, but i would like to know more.  If someone can research this, please do.  I think it would be an interesting addition to this article.Amity150 00:09, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, two-holers are not uncommon, though they have practical uses even if only one hole is used at a time, for example, it can be useful to switch from one hole to the other every month or so. The outhouse I grew up with (in the early 80's) was a 3-holer with one small hole for a child. I don't remember all three being used at once, though occasionally two were. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.191.237.118 (talk • contribs) 20:33, 17 December 2006
I agree.  See my comments in the "Communal toileting practices" discussion.
-- S from Michigan (I'm new to Wiki and have not yet signed up for a user name.  Thanks.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.226.207.182 (talk) 17:59, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Communal toileting practices 

message: The Outhouse and Aldaco pages seem to contain repeated information.  It would appear that "aldaco" should just be merged into "outhouse" rather than having its own page; however, I also can't find any other sources that verify the original information provided in the Aldaco article.  Does anyone else know anything about it? Oregongirl0407 20:15, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal 

message: I've added a lot of references, but unfortunately don't know how to generate a list to put at the end of the article.  I'm sorry, but the editing overview was not clear (to me anyway) on the point.  76.226.207.182 18:51, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: I came across a great poster, a Works Project Administration Art Deco piece on community sanitation.  It is a fitting piece of art that is (IMHO) right on to be  included in this article.  It is in the pubic domain and is at this website.
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/i?ammem/wpapos:@field(NUMBER+@band(cph+3b49492)):displayType=1:m856sd=cph:m856sf=3b49492
I don't know how to bring that into the article.
7&6=thirteen (talk) 18:47, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: WPA Graphic on community sanitation  HELP

message: To whom it may concern:
Do you think that "See also" would look better as a double column?
7&6=thirteen (talk) 22:32, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: See also could be a double column

message: Final footnote NY Times under popular culture.  Needs to be corrected.  HELP.  Thanks.  7&6=thirteen (talk) 18:14, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Footnote form HELP

message: We have a reflist|2 format, but it doesn't display that way.  Anybody have an idea as t o wht is wrong?  14:22, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: References (ehlp need on form/display)

message: 
With all due respect, I think that this article is comprehensive, well-sourced (lots of footnotes), wikified, and presents an overview of the subject matter that has a cosmopolitan (perhaps not "world") view of the subject.  It is better than a "Start" and the Cleanup tag is gratuitous and unneeded (IMHO).  I am not removing the tag, but think the two questions should be revisited. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 21:38, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Cleanup tag is not needed (IMHO), and this is better than a "Start Class"

message: I would vote to change the definition, stating that an outhouse is a type of privy. See http://www.thefreedictionary.com/privy and Privy. It differs from a privy as the removal of the feces is not done using pipes filled with water.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.247.2.53 (talk) 09:19, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Definition

message: Article Dunny seems redundant, because basically Dunny is just an Australian slang term for an outhouse, or sometimes a flush toilet. Indeed the dunny article starts out being only about the word. The Dunny article then goes into the history of outhouses themselves. Any discussions about outhouses belong here. Australian outhouses are already described here anyway, so the history section of the dunny article is really redundant. Format (talk) 23:43, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree and disagree. The word "dunny" is a reference to any sort of toilet in Australia, NOT specifically an "outhouse". As a colloquialism it would've died out long ago if that was the case. The article should probably be deleted and "Dunny" added as a redirect to Toilet with a paragraph or footnote added there about the Aussie term. Any outhouse info in that article that's not already here should be merged. OzoneO (talk) 14:16, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: User:JoshMuirWikipedia you've now linked to two different places regarding discussing this - one to here and then the other one to the talk page of dunny. Please make them both go to the same spot. Interesting point that User:Ozoneocean raised in 2010... I live in Australia at present and have to say I've never heard the word "dunny" used (perhaps only people in rural areas use it nowadays?), be it for outhouse or for toilet. When you look at the current content of the page of dunny it mainly describes outhouses though. So I would suggest that dunny redirects to outhouse, not to toilet. EvMsmile (talk) 04:08, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree , I also live in Australia, and I have heard it quite a bit (maybe it's just Perth?). I feel like it was originally outhouse and now people associate it with toilet, but that it would still be wise to put it into outhouse due to the article's nature and original meanings. JoshMuirWikipedia (talk) 22:48, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Merger proposal from Dunny

message: So what is the deal with all outhouses have a half-moon cut into the door?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.243.2.77 (talk) 05:31, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Half-moon 

message: I would only note again that this whole section and its subsections (which I rather like, and I believe it is a great improvement to the article) needs WP:RS and reference improvement. Please help.  7&6=thirteen (☎) 01:20, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Biological processes

message: It says this is scouting worldwide? I was in scouts from cub scouts to eagle and worked summer camps every year, I never once heard of this term for an outhouse. Admittedly I am from the Deep South, and it says it comes from Vermont but I have met and interacted with plenty from around the country and never heard of this. I think the designation scouting worldwide sho9uld be changed to scouting northeast USA or something.... 50.80.146.188 (talk) 21:34, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Kybo???

message: There is quite some overlap with the article on pit latrine. Especially the section called "biological processes" strays from the original topic which was more the house at the top, wasn't it? That title "biological processes" doesn't really make sense for what follows. I have added the link to pit latrine there now as it has much more detail regarding what is going on in the pit, with groundwater, pit emptying and so forth. EvM-Susana (talk) 19:45, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Overlap with article on pit latrine, section on "biological processes" 

message: Hi 7&6=thirteen before we keep undoing each other's edits again and again, let's rather discuss it here first. I don't see how that page about New Zealand's long drops is so relevant that it would have to be cited here. Also, why the combination of a note and a citation? If anything, let's make it into a straight citation. Also, the article is about outhouses, so more the structure that is around the toilet. If you want to talk about "long drops" in New Zealand then this would probably fit better on the page of pit latrine, as a long drop is a pit latrine (yes, there is overlap between the article on outhouses and that of pit latrines). EvMsmile (talk) 09:30, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: We had prior editors who were eliminating the citation and doubted the use of "long drops".  Thus the quote.  If you want to just use it as a cite and put "|quote=" in the template, that would work too.  7&6=thirteen (☎) 10:46, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  7&6=thirteen (☎) 10:49, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hmm, OK, but I would delete this part because that's unnecessary detail and we don't put that kind of detail for other cited websites either: "This website has been set up to showcase all the creative Long Drops that are popping up around Christchurch, New Zealand (improvised after the February 2011 Christchurch earthquake)". And what about my suggestion to have it rather on the page of pit latrine (or there, too)? EvMsmile (talk) 11:45, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: You don't need my permission to put it on pit latrine.  I think it is a good idea.  7&6=thirteen (☎) 12:19, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  I don't see the relevance of that New Zealand website of long drops 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I note our lack of an article on the outdoor toilet, in the sense of a flush toilet installed in a shed in the garden or yard of a house. These were widespread in Britain - millions, at a guess -  and apparently many remain:
:According to a Halifax housing survey this week [2010], an estimated 40,000 homes in the UK still have one. And it's anything but an indicator of ­social deprivation. "We could have knocked it down or converted it – a lot have round here," says Fred, who moved into Plantation Street in Gorton, Manchester, exactly half a century ago [1960]. [The house was built in 1902.] The two-up, two-down through-terrace, as redbrick and uniform as any Coronation Street fan could wish, cost him and his late wife £700. The price didn't include an ­indoor loo. Not that the ­Cawoods minded." from a Guardian article entitled "The outdoor toilet: no longer an inconvenience - Once a sign of social deprivation, the privy now adds value to the price of a property" 21 January 2010 . 
The General Household Survey of 1971 revealed that more than 1 in 10 Britons lacked an indoor toilet ; most of these would have had an outdoor flush toilet. Earlier in the century, it was common for neighbours to share one flush loo. (See e.g. The Risk Takers: The Story of Two American Families by Leslie Simpson Hall, p 86 re Glasgow tenements.)
Clearly the single household toilet, outside of the dwelling, is one concept: whether it be a flush toilet essentially the same as what most Wikipedia editors have inside their house, or a longdrop that sorts itself out, or a container that is emptied by the householder onto their own compost pile (humanure) or by those they pay (manual scavenging) or by municipally paid "nightmen" (the so-called Rochdale system). Many Australians converted their individual household "dunnies" (relying on the dunnyman to collect the dunnycan) to flush toilets; the shed remained in the same place, in the back of the house and in the psyche. 
I raise this here to see if there is any appetite for an article on the outdoor toilet that encompasses these different types. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 21:19, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I wasn't aware of that, interesting. However, I wouldn't think this warrants a separate article. It could be written up as a section within outhouse, and/or within flush toilet?EvMsmile (talk) 11:42, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Possibly. I've come across some more sources: a forum thread entitled "Why did terraced houses not have indoor bathrooms?" (UK, 2011, not a WP:RS and mostly anecdotal, but fascinating); Living in Liverpool: A Collection of Sources for Family, Local and Social Historians (also 2011 - the introduction is particularly useful re privies in the slums); I was pointed towards that by discussion with another user. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 21:06, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  No article on all outdoor toilets 

message: I have completed the merger of the page 'dunny' and this one. 
This article requires major cleanup, and is very bad currently, hence resulting in me leaving out some information. Here is the history part I left out:
Brisbane relied on "dunny carts" until the 1950s (one source says until the 1970s); because the population was so dispersed, it was difficult to install sewerage. Tar, creosote, and disinfectant kept the smell down. Academic George Seddon claimed that "the typical Australian back yard in the cities and country towns" had, throughout the first half of the twentieth century, "a dunny against the back fence, so that the pan could be collected from the dunny lane through a trap-door" The person who appeared weekly to empty the buckets beneath the seats was known as the "dunnyman", see gong farmer.
The "dunny lanes" provided access to collectors. These access lanes can now be worth considerable sums see Ransom strip.
I have also left out the part on etymology, as I plan to add that to a page I will create about the various names for toilet (Discussion shown here). This is the things I have left out in etymology.
The form "dunnakin" appeared in 1790, where it is described as a cant term for "a necessary".. Its exact etymology is obscure,. but it seems to derive from some form of "danna", dialect or slang for feces,. added to the suffix "ken", a pejorative slang term for a house.. Other forms included "dunegan",. "dunikin", "dunniken", "dunnyken", and "dunnekin". 
Its use spread to Australia and New Zealand, where it was contracted to "dunny". The Australian National Dictionary says "dunny" was "Orig[inally] an unsewered outside privy; now used loosely of any lavatory", and gives as related forms "dunny can, a removable receptacle in a privy; cart, a vehicle for the collection and disposal of human excrement, etc.; man, one who mans such a vehicle." The first example of "dunniken" in Australian English is cited from 1843. 
Thankyou for you time, lets get this article into shape!
JoshMuirWikipedia (talk) 04:55, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I have put the history part back in, please check if you agree. EvMsmile (talk) 02:53, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Merger of the page dunny into this one 

message: I've done a bit of restructuring, following more closely the standard headers as proposed in the Manual of Style here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(Sanitation)#Articles_on_technologies
There is still a big section (starting at "decomposition processes" and ending with "odour control" with lots of "citation missing" notes which actually overlaps a lot with pit latrine and could therefore be trimmed down quite a bit.EvMsmile (talk) 04:06, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with you, and I will try to contribute to trimming down of information. I also like your integration of the history section. A few things, 1. images in the gallery can probably be integrated into the article, 2. practically the whole sections for uses and notable examples I would deem as trivia, and should probably be removed, or at least integrated. JoshMuirWikipedia (talk) 13:09, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that a lot needs to be done, and have made a start with turning lists into prose. I think almost all of the material pertinent to pit latrines can be cut; I'll paste it here, so if anyone wants to move it to that article, they can. I will add content to make clear that the shelter may have different systems within, i.e. outhouse is not synonymous with pit latrine. And the illustrations need an overhaul too - we have two examples of the same one in the gallery. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 19:28, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: It's nowhere near good enough, but I've done all I can for now. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 23:10, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Restructuring on 1 Aug 2016

message: Cut to here, in case it can be of use. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 19:31, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a bold move to cut all that out. But I agree with you. It's a pity that whoever had inserted it, didn't provide any references. I wonder if some of it could be used for the pit latrine article, but probably not - I think that article is pretty comprehensive already. - Perhaps the part about odour could be kept or something similar written for outhouses?- And I think it would be worth mentioning groundwater pollution from outhouses at least once .EvMsmile (talk) 12:59, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: If you or anyone else want to re-insert some of this material, with better refs, go ahead, and we'll take it from there. In principle, no useful info should be lost from Wikipedia. Without sources, though, the usefulness of any of this is minimal. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 10:20, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  All that poorly-sourced material about pit latrines 

message: These should not be listed as external links, but I put them here in case anyone wants to use them as a source. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 22:10, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with you.EvMsmile (talk) 12:55, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  potential sources 

message: Does anything speak against merging the two sections citations and bibliography together? Most articles that I've worked on only have one reference list, without distinguishing citations and bibliography. EvMsmile (talk) 12:55, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: You are correct in that Wikipedia's preferred referencing styles have changed over a dozen years. Presumably these dual sections were set up with the creation of the article many years ago. The current standards are Wikipedia:Citing sources. Briefly, inline citations for everything, and other works might possibly be allowed to survive in a "further reading" section (or if not, then on the talk page, for future attention.) Carbon Caryatid (talk) 12:48, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks. If someone has time/energy, please merge it into one (the more up to date style), thanks. EvMsmile (talk) 12:08, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merging citations and bibliography?

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