Talk:Timing belt (camshaft)

message: I restore the inline external links because they are "references".  I don't like commercial links in Wikipedia anymore than than the next person, but the article contains non-obvious facts (Kevlar, 1945, etc) and references should be cited.  If you have better references for those facts, we can replace the commercial links.  Samw 00:57, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

message: Ok timing belts exist in almost every car, and although this is that most common place that "normal" people would see them they are not only used in cars. The article must be expanded using mechanical information of their operation and other common usages.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.67.166.181 (talk) 22:22, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question: Is it all about cars? 

message: Is it true that not all cars, e.g. Ford Fiesta Encore, have a cambelt?  If so, how is this so? Gwaka Lumpa 12:21, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The 1.3 Endura-E engine used in the Mk. IV Fiesta is an OHV or "pushrod" engine which just has a small timing chain, and is not considered a part that requires servicing (there were several other engines in the Fiesta too). I'm not sure if this is the case with all pushrod engines, or if they're still interference engines or not - I think this needs to be clarified in the article. --Zilog Jones 16:09, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question: 

message: Timing belts "never became popular" as a bicycle chain alternative. Why? 
Is the timing belt less efficient than the bicycle chain?
Why is it popular in cars? Is the timing belt more efficient, or does it have a longer life, 
or is it cheaper to produce, or does it have less wear on the cam?
Thanks in advance. Nov 18, 2007 pashute
With a timing belt design on a bicycle, one could not change gears such as that on the chain driven bicycle.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.27.240.238 (talk) 18:42, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course you could. You'd simply need a [Derailleur] NipponBill (talk) 02:58, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thing is, this belt would no longer be a timing belt! A timing belt is timing the opening and closing of engine valves. What you are talking about is a toothed belt. More to the point, timing belts are just one use for toothed belts. Drive belts are another. Therefore, the redirect from Toothed belt to Timing belt should be deleted, a new article Toothed belt should be created and Timing belt be merged into it! Only then would we actually be correct on this topic. Justsail (talk) 09:46, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question: Timing belt Alternative for bicycle 

message: YA
I WANTS CAUSES POSSIBLE FOR IT  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.196.206.222 (talk) 03:53, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  REASON FOR HIGH BELT TENSION IN TIMING BELT 

message: Timing chain should not be redirected here, but rather have a page of it's own, or this artical split as "Engine Timing Mechanisms" with belts and chains.  The chains point here but only gloss over their role or details.  Why redirect "Timing Chain" to this belt artical when the chains - as I have on my own car and they do have unique and different features than belts - are uncovered in any meaningful way nor discussed at all other than "or chains as in older cars...".
They used plastic gearing to quiet chains over belts.  Prone to failure, solid medal ones were aftermarket accessories.
Durability.
More expensive and harder to access, but again not needed to be accessed nearly as often.
Some things that could be elaborated on, but if not mentioned, take the cross reference out and put the creation of "Timing Chain" out in the open as one of Wiki's "help create" articles.  Redirecting from one thing to something unrelated to the item itself merely frustrates the reader and undermines the whole effort that Wikipedia embodies.  And on the whole it's all too common; not just on this issue.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.192.195.181 (talk) 23:36, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Timing Chain 

message: As mentioned by a number of others also with a wide experience it is a bit disconcerting to look up timing belts and get a slap in the face with an automotive cam shaft timing belt.
What is jarring is the pretence that 'cam belt' is the primary use of 'timing belt'
The last sentence of the head is also just bad.  The belts had trade names like Synchroflex etc. when they were developed because they were intended for timing, they were not called 'CamFlex'.
The popular usage is probably in automotive but it should not be the encyclopaedic usage.  Toothed belts were invented for timing long before the conservative automotive industry was interested in gambling on the new technology.
Much of the discussion here exists because the page is incorrectly titled.  With a bit of show of support changes could be implemented pretty easily.  It is clear that something needs doing.
The way it is now is that it glosses over the bulk of the applications and the rich history and development of timing belts in favour of one popular usage.
[] Standards exist for timing belts that are not automotive biased
:Relevant Standards
:The British Standard for timing belt drives was
:BS 4548:1987 :Specification for synchronous belt drives for industrial applications . This standard is still in use but is declared as obsolescent the current standard in europe for timing belt drives is
:ISO 5294:1989: Synchronous belt drives -- Pulleys
:ISO 5296-1:1989:1989: Synchronous belt drives -- Belts -- Part 1: Pitch codes MXL, XL, L, H, XH and XXH -- Metric and inch dimensions
:This is not equivalent and belts and pulleys to the British Standard are not interchangeable with the ISO standard.
[] Timing belt invented in 1945
[] timing belt introduction in early 1950's
[] new processes for timing belts in 1952
[] start manufacture of timing belts in 1957
[] first production car to use a timing belt in 1962
To clarify what others have suggested perhaps the following with links where appropriate, some of these are quick to create category pages but I am not a power editor yet.
====timing (mechanical)====
describes gears, chains, toothed belts, linkages, cams, pneumatic (many of these pages exist I expect)
====belts (mechanical)====
this article is actually very well done until one clicks on the 'timing belt' link Extract the 'toothed belt' section to a new page or redirect to relevant section here
====toothed belt====
or add to section on belts (mechanical) page with a redirect, describing the use of teeth to prevent slip and transmit additional torque and point to 'timing belt' when indicating the synchronous nature of the non-slip feature.  Indicate the fact that most synchronous applications have integer multiples of teeth on the synchronised shafts (motor shafts can have teeth that give convenient ratios to step numbers or engine speeds).
====timing belt====
with a pointer to PUPULAR useage of 'cam belt', 'camshaft timing belt' and 'engine timing belt' that goes to a cleaner version of current page.  The timing belt article can then focus on the history, standards, specifics of the various tooth profiles (there are many), materials and pitches that have been developed over the years for timing on mechanisms in general and point to the engine cam timing article when sections can be better addressed there like the rare automotive usage of double sided timing belts to gain synchronous drive on both sides of a serpentine belt (Porsche I think uses one)
This page should not be part of WikiProjects Automobile which is why there is such confusion with the editing and the heavy bias.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Idyllic press (talk • contribs) 10:09, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:   Time to arrange the articles - Wrong title 

message: with a pointer to PUPULAR useage of 'cam belt', 'camshaft timing belt' and 'engine timing belt' that goes to a cleaner version of current page.  The timing belt article can then focus on the history, standards, specifics of the various tooth profiles (there are many), materials and pitches that have been developed over the years for timing on mechanisms in general and point to the engine cam timing article when sections can be better addressed there like the rare automotive usage of double sided timing belts to gain synchronous drive on both sides of a serpentine belt (Porsche I think uses one)
This page should not be part of WikiProjects Automobile which is why there is such confusion with the editing and the heavy bias.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Idyllic press (talk • contribs) 10:09, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: timing belt

message: pointing to timing gears, timing chain, camshaft timing belt, mention push rod, tappet, OHC, side valve, hydraulic variable timing (Alfa Romeo 159i and Alfetta GTV), discuss formula one electronic valve timing
10:04, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: engine camshaft timing

message: The informative section in the wiki page Belt (mechanical) points timing belt incorrectly to this camshaft timing belt or cam belt page.
Time for a change in the name of this page (or move the content to camshaft timing belt or cam belt with links or disambiguation from here), this change will cause the other changes to follow automatically as the mess is cleaned up.
Idyllic press (talk) 07:45, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: If we had an article for timing belts (i.e. the non engine-specific toothed belts used in many machines) then we might have more reason to move things around. Until then, no. Andy Dingley (talk) 10:11, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rename this page to Cam Belt 

message: Reference 4 only points to a complaint of a car owner about a timing belt failure. It does not bring any benefit to this article. And in the communication between the car manufacturer and the owner the issue with timing belt aging is ignored (1998 car, failure in 2005 so failure after 7 years where timing belt replacements are usually recommended on 5 to 6 years).  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.238.15.24 (talk) 08:35, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is the point of reference 4? 

message: A point related to Reference 4, I think, is that an increasing number of vehicles have timing covers designed in such a way that belt inspection is too difficult to be carried out as part of a normal service or pre-purchase inspection. 
I don't have figures for the prevalence of this, but I know I've been lied to in the past about belt age, by a seller who was no doubt aware that checking his claim would be nearly as difficult as changing the belt.  --Anteaus (talk) 13:34, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  -But has the belt actually been changed? 

message: Several articles mention that the Ford 1.0 3 Cylinder Ecoboost engine utilizes a unique timing belt design where the belt is actually lubricated by engine oil. I am not sure if Ford (or any other manufacturer) is applying this to any other engines. I would guess that in these cases the timing belt is made from more oil-resistant materials, and may have a different replacement interval. Cascade1988 (talk) 03:41, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Wet Timing Belt Designs

message: Instead of creating articles for timing chains and cambelts, this article could be renamed to Timing drive system. It seems to be the name used in the industry.   The RedBurn (ϕ) 20:46, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rename to Timing drive system