Talk:Suicide methods

message: I don't know where to put this - and the main article is protected from editing - so I will put it here and hope it helps.
(a) Argon is incorrectly listed as an inert gas that can be used with a suicide bag. It is necessary that the inert gas be less dense than air for the suicide bag to function to exclude air/oxygen and also flush away exhaled CO2. 
Argon is denser/heavier than air and does not work with a suicide bag.
The bag fills from the top down from the flowing gas piped into the suicide bag. Then after filling the bag from the top, the ongoing excess inert gas flow spills out the partly open neck of the bag. This maintains an ongoing barrier to stop any room air / oxygen flowing into the open lower neck of the bag. It also flushes away out the open neck of the bag any exhaled CO2 which is also denser/heavier than air. This way the bag is continually kept full of the less dense inert gas, and free of CO2.
This works with inert gases Helium and Nitrogen which are less dense than air. It does not work with inert gas Argon.
Denser than air argon will just spill out the open neck of the bag and will not fill it from the top down and will not exclude room air/oxygen. The bag will actually continually allow in less dense fresh room air/oxygen as the denser argon flows down out the open neck of the bag. 
There are just 2 references that I have found describing an attempt with argon. As expected neither resulted in a fatality, in contrast to the very many demonstrated cases with Helium or nitrogen where one deep breath led to unconsciousness and death followed within approx 10 minutes.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/352260222_Suicide_Attempt_by_Inhalation_of_Argon_Gas
Tincu, R.C.; Cobilinschi, C.; Tomescu, D.; Ghiorghiu, Z.; Macovei, R.A. (2016). Suicide attempt after argon gas inhalation – Case report. Toxicology Letters, 258(), S109–. doi:10.1016/j.toxlet.2016.06.1454 
Argon is non toxic ( unlike eg butane or Carbon monoxide) so without almost complete exclusion of Oxygen, fatal suffocation will not result and it should not be mistakenly listed here with Helium and Nitrogen as inert gases used with a suicide bag for suffocation. Only less dense ( than air) inert gases work in this arrangement.
(b) method restrictions
The low pressure/low flow helium cylinders originally used in this method were intended as disposable helium for party balloons. They are now all filled with only 80% helium and 20% air, so they cannot be used for suicide any more.
Regular high pressure helium cylinders cannot be used for this method as suitably low flow regulators and flowmeters are not available. Regular nitrogen/argon etc flowmeter controllers yield much too high minimum flow rates for helium and are not usable.
Given that gas suppliers are aware of the nitrogen / suicide bag method, it is now extremely difficult for private individuals to obtain a cylinder of nitrogen, for which there are few uses by a private individual without eg HVAC certification.
(c) Suffocation / hanging - edit request : A ligature does not simply block the oxygen carrying carotid arteries for blood flow to be interrupted. The ligature can be fatal without being so tight as to block the carotid arteries.
 - The use of a ligature first compresses the jugular veins and blocks blood flow from leaving the head, at a much lower force than that required to block the entry of fresh oxygenated blood through the deeper seated carotid arteries or the even much higher force required to occlude the airway. 
This engorgement of blood in the head and blocking of blood drainage is the reason for the characteristic petechiae or burst blood vessels seen in such cases. The incoming blood is blocked because it cannot overcome the back-pressure caused by the blocked drainage veins. There is no way for the blood to get back out of the head once the veins are blocked. That is why the oxygenated blood flow input stops.
The veins are blocked - then with higher force the arteries may be blocked, then with yet higher force the airway is completely blocked. 
 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Riomhaire1 (talk • contribs) 17:49, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for this suggestion.  I have removed the word Argon from the article, and the unsourced and WP:CHALLENGEd claim about the carotid arteries. WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:54, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

text: Finally someone that says what I’m looking for.  I m not looking how not to kill my self lol!! I should be done today 100% 79.106.126.48 (talk) 02:59, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit Request to Suffocation section - Argon while inert is denser than air and  therefore does not work with a suicide bag 

message: Under List > Pesticide, it says in US pesticides are used in about 12 suicides. Based on the cited source information, I believe 12 million was meant. 172.102.168.219 (talk) 03:19, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Please elucidate. Suicide by pesticide is very rare in the US; it's far more common elsewhere. --jpgordon𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇 03:47, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: There can't possibly be 12 million suicides by pesticide each year in the US; there are only 3.5 million deaths each year in the US, and only 0.05 million of them are any kind of suicide. WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:16, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

text: I just stumbled across this comment and I must say I’m baffled by the assertion that more people than the population of New York City are deliberately killing themselves with pesticides. Dronebogus (talk) 17:17, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Not in the United States, no. "Pesticide ingestion is one of the most common methods of suicide worldwide. It is responsible for an estimated 14 million deaths since the Green Revolution in the 1960s, when pesticides became widely used in small-scale farming." The Centre for Pesticide Suicide Prevention --jpgordon𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇 18:31, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Typo on number of deaths 

message: There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals) regarding the use of suicide crisis telephone numbers. The thread is Suicide hotlines.  Thank you. TheSpacebook (talk) 21:00, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussion notice