Talk:Pedagogy

message: Shouldn't this fall under subtopic: Academic Degree, "In Denmark all pedagogues are trained at a series of national institutes for social educators located in all major cities. The programme is a 3.5-year academic course, giving the student the title of a Bachelor in Social Education (Danish: Professionsbachelor som pædagog).[9]
It is also possible to earn a master's degree in pedagogy/educational science from the University of Copenhagen. This BA and MA program has a more theoretical focus compared to the above mentioned Bachelor in Social Education."? 117.221.180.174 (talk) 14:55, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Misplaced or misnamed?

message: "But a pedagogue can occupy various kinds of jobs, e.g. in retirement homes, prisons, orphanages, and human resource management. These are often recognised as social pedagogues as they perform on behalf of society." With reference to English or all the world specifically? 117.221.180.174 (talk) 14:49, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Doubt

message: Run a what links here. and one for Organizational learning, self-organization. We'll see what shows up. That might build enough context to create plenary context. I personally do not think average people like the word pedagogy because it reminds them of being put to sleep in class. But I don't see how academia can discuss scientific topics without this term or one like it. Definately this article has plenty of headroom. Quinobi 8 July 2005 15:25 (UTC)
It's interesting that this word has just come into existance.  It appears that it was not used before 2000 when it suddenly started appearing in textbook reviews and was added to the American Heritage dictionary.  I'll do some more research to see what I can find and return.
: It's been in widely accepted use at least since 1970 in Paulo Freire's Pedagogy of the Oppressed.  On-line American Heritage Dictionary suggests "pedagogue - A schoolteacher; an educator" was in use as an Old English word, and a quick search on Amazon showed it used by Booker T. Washington in the late 1800's (http://amazon.com/gp/reader/0252005295/ref=sib_books_ref/002-6052067-9864849?ie=UTF8&keywords=pedagogy&v=search-inside) 69.116.61.10 01:59, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe this is, in fact, a significant difference in meaning between English and the other languages you list, especially German.  (In fact, the French article looks close to the English meaning, and is a better-developed version of roughly the article I think should be here).  In English, the word "pedagogy" definitely and distinctly means "teaching."  Take a look at Britannica or dictionary.com. In fact, I've doubted in the past the need for a separate article here and one on education.  This is a short and stubby article compared to that one, but it's definitely on the right subject, teaching as opposed to child development more broadly. -- Rbellin|Talk 21:30, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

text: This is English Wikipedia.  It shouldn't make any difference to this article what the various cognates of pedagogy mean in other languages.  This article should cover what pedagogy is in English-speaking countries, not what the respective cognate means in another country.  Pädagogik and Pédagogie are not necessarily pedagogy, and a pædagog or pedagógus is not necessarily a pedagogue, any more than a warenhuis is a warehouse or a preservativo is a preservative.  Contributors from countries where the relevant cognate has a different meaning from that of English pedagogy should write separate articles about education or child-rearing or whatever in those countries, not try to expand the meaning of the English word.  J. D. Crutchfield | Talk 20:30, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  Whatever people say, "pedagogy" and its derived words simply don't sound natural in English. If I come across its equivalents in other languages and have to translate them, I invariably look for some other term. The lack of consensus on the pronunciation is to me sufficient proof that the word means very little to most English-speakers. A shortcoming of English, perhaps, but it's a fact of life.213.127.210.95 (talk) 22:56, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Usage

message: this:
"Dave Weiss' definition- The art or science of teaching(.)" was in the article, doesn't belong there, but perhaps someone knows what it refers to? Brassratgirl 04:53, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  stray content 

message: A claim, that "paidagogos" was bringing slave children to school is possibly not correct. If some interpreters say that he brought slave children to school, this should be refferred to. I have information that it was just an old slave who carried child's things (musical instruments etc) on the way to school and looked for him/her, because he didn't do for other work any more, but this child has not to be slave at all. --84.50.147.158 13:03, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference to Greek tradition 

message: I noticed someone keeps removing the language reference to Lojban.  Although I know nothing about it, it does point to a legitimate page and although there are a ridiculously tiny group of speakers it seems a legitimate link.  Please discuss here before deleting it again! Thanks! Alex Jackl 05:59, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lojban 

message: The article indicates that pedagogy means roughly the same as education. The education theory section of education forwards to pedagogy as its main article; this seems strange, considering the lack of meaningful content on this page so far.
What justifies having a second article? Perhaps it would be better to just forward to education?
--Andrew Robertson 00:13, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Pedagogy and education are not the same... Can you point out where in the article it indicates that?    Pedagogy is rather the art or science of educating- it is the framework that defines the instructional methods being used.   If you use a different pedagogy you might  educate differently, take different actions, teach different facts, use different processes, and measure different things in the process of education.  Pedagogy certainly deserves its own article! Alex Jackl 04:53, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

text: In terms of language at the practical level, virtually the same. It's a very different academic field, though. Pedagogy is the study of teaching itself. Generally, it overlaps with philosophy dep't at the university setting  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.68.20.12 (talk) 03:00, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge/redirect? 

message: In the third line of the first paragraph, when the Ancient Greek etymology is given and then dissected, there is an inconsistency between the Greek and the English transliteration. The dissection of the Greek word παιδαγωγέω is shown as παίς + άγω. παίς is transliterated correctly as país, but άγω is transliterated as ági.
If the Greek is correct, then the English should read ágo, but if the English is correct (that is, the Greek word for the verb 'to lead' is ági), then the Greek should read άγι. I don't remember much of my Greek vocabulary, but from what I do remember, the dictionary form of most verbs ended in ω, meaning the English transliteration should be changed.
Can someone please confirm this? If the Ancient Greek verb 'to lead' is άγω, can we please change the English transliteration? I would do it, but again, I don't remember enough of my Greek grammar and vocab to be certain on this. Thanks. Jclu (talk) 19:08, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Incorrect Greek translation 

message: Surely there are times in every teachers career when your students drive you crazy. But, you must keep your head above the water and preserve your calmness. Now, here is this new quasi Ancient Greek word nobody ever heard that matches your thoughts well. Just think of it, and smile mysteriously...
Q: How would we name art or science of being a teacher to very hard learners?
A: Onodagogy, from the Ancient Greek  (onodagōgeō; from  onos: donkey and  ági: lead; literally, "to lead the donkey”)
:I second the word! dude1818 (talk) 23:45, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Make that 2 ! :) --SvenAERTS (talk) 10:56, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  During the COVID-19 crisis, where kids had to stay at home, and home-teaching became the norm, some parents suddenly came to realize it wasn't the teachers who were the problem all these years, but their own impossible kid! :)--SvenAERTS (talk) 12:00, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

text: Americans.64.138.208.217 (talk) 09:35, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Just for fun: a new term : Onodagogy !

message: Where's the article about Psychopedagogy in English Wikipedia, an important pedagogical study nowadays? (See Psicopedagogia.) --Roberto Cruz (talk) 20:29, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where's [[Psychopedagogy]]? 

message: Just a quick FYI note - I changed the redirect on Teaching to point to this article. It was pointed at Teacher, and a user had expressed some concern that they're really two separate subjects; Teaching is about what is done, and Teacher is about who does it. The user had suggested Education. I agreed with him/her that a change should be made, but felt Education was a bit broad, covering both the teaching and the learning sides of the coin, so I picked this article instead. I also added links in this article to both Education and Teacher, to kind of make sure everyone gets to the right place. Applejuicefool (talk) 14:50, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Teaching 

message: This section seems to be almost entirely an explanation of the Sudbury model of education, and its inclusion seems inappropriate, especially as it is far longer than the actual explanation of pedagogy. Surely such an explanation should be on the Sudbury model page, rather than here. 77.99.163.40 (talk) 11:42, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism of the concept of pedagogy 

message: It may be helpful to have a discussion of didactic transformation at this page. 132.70.50.117 (talk) 10:21, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  didactic transformation 

message: Afaik, this needs to be clarified in the copy:  παιδαγωγέιν  (paidagōgein) is "to lead [a child]" ≠ "I lead [a child]". "I lead" a child is παιδαγωγέω (paidagōgeō) – αγωγέω: I lead. Afaik I [verb] is standard Greek practice in listing verbs. The infinitive (to ...) is English at least. 110.32.236.232 (talk) 13:40, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  verb sense correction 

message: I could be coming at this from a British angle, but I feel that in British English, the word "pedagogue" has a negative connotation, meaning a "pedantic, dogmatic, and formal" person, to quote dictionary.com. In fact, the online Oxford English Dictionary has this as its first definition of pedagogue. (I remember being very intrigued when I moved to North America from the UK and heard the word used in a neutral sense!)
I don't wish to be a pedagogue myself, but could this perhaps be reflected somewhere in the article? Paulbuckingham (talk) 01:14, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Can I resurrect this point? The article may be about pedagogy, but a whole subsection is about "pedagogue" and I think it would only be fair to warn readers that unlike in other languages, the English word pedagogue is often negatively connotated, for which reason I personally would always avoid it when talking about a modern profession, and would instead say "educationalist", which seems to me to be identical. (If it's not identical, the article needs to go into that too.) --Doric Loon (talk) 13:43, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  The article does mention this already in the etymology section, at "Negative connotations (in which the word is sometimes associated with pedantry) have existed at least from the time of Samuel Pepys (1650s)."pedagogue". Online Etymology Dictionary." But maybe that section ("pedagogue") should mention it too. Quercus solaris (talk) 23:38, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alternative (pejorative) meaning of "pedagogue" 

message: I think that learning theory is an important part of pedagogy. Is there anything from that article we could integrate into this one? Kindergarten ped (talk) 05:38, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Learning theory

message: Seems like that one should be folded into this one. —Morning star (talk) 01:03, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 19:11, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  No merge needed, I left a redirect at Pedagog to Pedagogy. The contents of the article were already covered in the Etymology section. —James (Talk • Contribs) • 8:55pm • 10:55, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed merger from [[Pedagog]] 

message: A few users have been making edits such as this, that say "In Mexico, Argentina, Spain, Germany and more countries, Pedagogy is not the study to be a teacher or the process of teaching. In these countries, Pedagogy is the Science of Education." I'm not sure that the term is different in different countries - this is probably just a problem with vague wording, not a problem with the definition actually being different. Is there a good source for these countries having such a radically different approach? All the best — Mr. Stradivarius ♫ 17:29, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Different in different countries? 

message: 1. There is not a sufficient source supporting the definition
2. The definition is so vague that many world argue it is wrong
3. The correct definition is far more complex than the one stated.
In the UK there is a very low academic level of pedagogy compared to other Western countries (especially Scandinavia and Germany).
Many countries are trying to adapt the Scandinavian level of pedagogy and thus changing the meaning of the word.
The term is not the be confused with social pedagogy, where the society (represented by social pedagogues) holds a larger part of the responsibility of the child's upbringing.
http://eprints.ioe.ac.uk/58/1/may_18_09_Ped_BRIEFING__PAPER_JB_PP_.pdf
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2006/03/22/2003298639
http://edu.au.dk/en/research/
Pedagogy in Denmark
http://www.bupl.dk/english/pedagogy_in_dk?opendocument
Gloegg (talk) 10:04, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Go ahead and update the definition - I'm sure it can be improved. At the same time, you should bear in mind the discussions above. But they don't mean that you can't be bold in your updates. There is still a lot to be done on educational topics in Wikipedia, and we could do with your help. Best — Mr. Stradivarius ♫ 20:20, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

text: Also, you should feel free to update this article with your content from the pedagogue page. I've redirected the page here again, as we don't have to have an article for every single word there is. (Have a look at Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a dictionary for the principles involved here.) Let's keep our attention focused on making a great article here. — Mr. Stradivarius ♫ 20:28, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added some changes. Let's see if anyone challenges it. I think this article still needs a lot of work. Gloegg (talk) 15:05, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I think I might challenge it, when I have the time to put a coherent argument together. :) I was curious, so I had a look at a book on the subject, and it looks like there are several different definitions of "pedagogy". What you have added to the article appears to be the standard definition in Scandinavia, and the version we had before appears to be closer to the standard definition in the UK. At Wikipedia we can't judge which of these is "right" - we have to include them both and say that there is a disagreement. (See Wikipedia:Neutral point of view for the policy.) What this means is that we will have to change your wording at some point, although it won't be a straight reversion to the previous version. It will be a combination of your text and the previous text, and maybe other definitions of pedagogy too. Our next step is to identify the major definitions of pedagogy that appear in the scholarly literature - but of course, this takes time, so it might be a while before I get round to it. Let me know if you have any questions about the principles involved here, and I'll be happy to explain. — Mr. Stradivarius ♫ 18:34, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello, I would like to highlight some issues, hoping they will serve as a future reference for Wikipedians. Drawing on what you said before, disagreement could derive from linguistic incompatibility rather than open oppositions of theoreticians. For example, when I used to work at an international school, the syllabus always listed "pedagogy" as if it was a set of practical instructions and guidelines, whereas, in my home country, pedagogy tends to encompass some very theoretical issues (such as the answer to historical-philosophical questions -- e.g. "why do we teach?"). For example, in Italy, a "pedagogist" is almost always an academic, although if you attend a "History of pedagogy" [Storia della Pedagogia] course it is acknowledged the earliest occurrence of "pedagogue" denoted a slave or servant who used to take the kids to "school". Another example is "experimental pedagogy" [lit. Pedagogia Sperimentale]: if you attend the subject, it turns out to be basic "Educational Research" -- so that's the correct translation. In other words, in my language, "Pedagogia" is akin to "Science of Education" and that's about it (therefore, a "pedagogist" is not a teacher, but an Educational Scientist). Interestingly, although even some Italian old-school academics do not recognise it, even the word "Education" is a false friend: in English, it refers to what in Italian is called "Formazione" (which is very broad and includes Adult Education, Informal Education, etc. any practice that creates identity or provides skills may fall under its hat); conversely, what is called "Educazione" in Italian is not the English "Education" but it rather refers to "schooling" -- usually with reference to nation-wide educational system. In conclusion, assuming the above example drawn on my native language is a good sample of false-friendism, I am not so sure all definitions you read about in scholarly literature are necessarily referred to competitive denotations of the same concept. Rather, it might as well be the case that A is called B in another country, whereas A has another meaning. Consequently, you do not need to list Swedish *A* vs. British *A*, since British *A* is sufficiently translated by Swedish *B*, thus making Swedish *A* a different thing altogether. MarcelloPapirio (talk) 05:28, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  The first paragraphs should be changed 

message: The article should include more information about Critical pedagogy, for example:
1. Critical pedagogy is philosophy of education aimed at developing an awareness of freedom, ability to recognize authoritarian tendencies, and use their knowledge and power to take constructive action to correct those tendencies
2. The idea of critical pedagogy draws on ideas used in feminism, anarchism, radical democracy, and other social movements.
3. Critical pedagogy draws on students ability to critically think about their educational situation, which allows them to recognize similarities between their problems and experiences to the social contexts in which society the student is embedded.
4.Upon realizing these issues, the student can then reflect on them in an effort to find ways to correct the issues.Huai Jiang (talk) 17:16, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Critical pedagogy 

message: this article is addressing Pedagogy as directly related with teaching, but what about pedagogy of social learning? or pedagogy of autonomous learning environments? or shouldn't we talk about pedagogy when describing the design of technology enhanced learning? (VaniaGuer (talk) 20:56, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pedagogy in the digital age 

message: This article has been revised as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement. (See the investigation subpage) Earlier text must not be restored, unless it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 18:50, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible copyright problem 

message: I was looking to educate myself on techniques / the study to help kids quicker overcome hurdles they struggle with and focus upon.  I was looking for the right word/speciality studying everything related to developing emotional skills / interaction, like iso hitting a class mate, more intelligent ways to interact. I was very impressed by a group specialising in introducing massage based techniques in classes. Anyway, so I thought to start at the article of pedagogy and find it as one of the chapters/fields in the article on pedagogy.  But there's nothing.  I understand such a list would form automatically as the article expands into more topics and the auto-index feature would start creating such a list.  But nevertheless and as there is nothing. Shouldn't there we start such a list?
Herewith an assist.  Thy and if anybody can point me to links on how to facilitate kids overcome hurdles in the emotional/touching, I'd be very appreciative. --SvenAERTS (talk) 11:56, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal of "List of fields and levels pedagogy is looking at / studying" 

message: Under key concepts, the following four are listed: Critical pedagogy, Anti-oppressive education, Anti-bias curriculum and Student-centred learning.
* Anti-oppressive education and Anti-bias curriculum are both part of/aspects of Critical pedagogy. Only Critical pedagogy should be listed.
* Suggest adding Social constructivism and Constructivism to key concepts - they are both widely accepted learning theories and central in pedagogy studies in universities in Northern Europe and particularly Scandinavia.  
-- Vazzivazzi (talk) 17:05, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Key concepts suggestions 

message: The article says: "An article from Kathmandu Post published on June 3, 2018 described the usual first day of school in an academic calendar. Teachers meet their students with distinct traits. Attributional diversity among these children or teens exceeds similarities. Educators have to teach students with different cultural, social, and religious backgrounds. This situation entails a differentiated strategy in pedagogy and not the traditional approach for teachers to accomplish goals efficiently."
:What is the purpose of this mention? What is its goal within the broader frame of the article? MarcelloPapirio (talk) 05:13, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kathmandu 

message: Thanks for not forcing lazy links on us, appreciate the extra time!  Very clear!  ...and rare here...<BR>
"....range from furthering liberal education (the general development of human potential) to the narrower specifics of vocational education (the imparting and acquisition of specific skills)." <BR> --2602:306:CFCE:1EE0:F5D1:256B:CA2D:F58 (talk) 17:46, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nice Writing! 

message: That section should be re-written in plain English, stop stuttering.  And it does NOT say how to pronounce the word, all it has is a lazy link to a lesson in "Help:IPA/English." Really!? Does anybody think the reader actually came here for that? Is IPA fluency being assumed here? ...Or else get off this page and go study over there? ?  Kind of ironic, given the topic here. <BR> --2602:306:CFCE:1EE0:F5D1:256B:CA2D:F58 (talk) 18:12, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etymology and pronunciation: NOT 

message: In the text is written: "Pedagogy is often described as the act of teaching." However, Pedagogy is originated in Germany and focusses on "Bildung": the tradition of (self-)cultivation, of becoming "whole" as a person through education. Pedagogy is, in my experience, broader than teaching, learning how to teach and discovering the best method of teaching. This direct association with teaching is more prevalent in anglo-american literature. If you look at other countries like Germany, Finland, Belgium,... pedagogy includes far more than just teaching. Can we (or I) rewrite this? Or specify the differences between countries/traditions to make this clear? 
Thanks! CharlesWritesOnTheInternet (talk) 18:52, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: If you have reliable sources that support the points you want to make, sure. If you want to base this on your own thoughts on the subject, no. MrOllie (talk) 18:59, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  What pedagogy really is?  

message: An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect :Education studies and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at  until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  Steel1943 (talk) 19:38, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Education studies" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect :Paideutics and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at  until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  Steel1943 (talk) 19:42, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Paideutics" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: When I am less busy I may be able to do it myself drawing from her wiki page, related pages, and their sources … but this is not really my background so I’ll also suggest it here in case anyone else wants to do it.
There is obviously a lot of work to be done on this article because it is a very broad subject. For example historical and modern pedagogy perspectives from Africas, indigenous Australians, indigenous Americans are not present at all as far as I can see. Women in pedagogy also seem relatively undercovered — Montessori is a very big name in the field! But we have to start somewhere so I suggest starting with adding her in. 2600:1700:25BF:9800:1DE:A25D:8D71:68A1 (talk) 17:32, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please add Maria Montessori to the History section