Talk:Penitentes (New Mexico)

message: Good, succinct account, but there's no citations at all for the meat of the article. Where did this info come from?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.166.50.25 (talk) 18:18, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: succinct 

message: I think Murcielago has got it bang on. I grew up in Rio Arriba and have studied its history. Of the many accounts I've read, none comes so close. I, too, want to know the source. It would be well worth reading. Also, I've encountered several other names for the Hermandad in Fray Angelco Chavez's But Time and Chance and Weigle's Penitentes of the Southwest and in literature about the Santuario de Chimayo. D. Hocking  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dhocking (talk • contribs) 05:13, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I wouldn't be opposed to renaming it "Penitentes (New Mexico)", plural rather than singular, in order to refer to the organization rather than an individual Hermano.  It makes sense since "los" is a direct article in Spanish. -Murcielago 22:36, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Penitentes currently redirects here. The Brothers are known by many names, but I suppose there is not really any good reason to include the article "Los". Just make sure to change all the double redirects if you decide to move it.--Rockero 22:57, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Dicho y hecho.  —JerryFriedman 17:16, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Move?

message: This seems to be an oxymoron, but then perhaps this has some meaning in Catholism. If so, perhaps some explanation is in order.Wschart (talk) 01:07, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point. In Catholicism, there are two types of priests. That designation is based on who their spiritual father is (aka the local boss). You hear the term diocesan priest more that secular priest these days. A religious priest is one who belongs to a religious order such as the Franciscans, Dominicans, Norbertines, Jesuits, et cetera. Their superior would be an Abbott in the order. Priests who are not members of religious orders answer directly to the bishop in their diocese. They are called diocesan or secular priests. Again, this is knowledge I have, but don't have the reference to insert it in the article. So it would be considered perosnal research. Maybe somebody else has documentation on this. Taram (talk) 05:20, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Secular priests? 

message: There have been some very active Penitente groups in the Tome area just south of Albuquerque. 
01:36, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point. —JerryFriedman  (Talk) 03:42, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Penitentes weren't just in Northern New Mexico 

message: There have been some very active Penitente groups in the Tome area just south of Albuquerque.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cybergata (talk • contribs) 01:00, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Penitentes weren't just in Northern New Mexico 

message: There are Penitentes in many countries with a Hispanic tradition. They existed first in Spain and spread with colonization. On Wikipedia besides this article there is an article on Andean ice formations. They are called that due to the similarity in appearance to those Catholics.  This is evidence of the wide spread of the tradition.RichardBond (talk) 01:59, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Penitentes were not just in the Southwest 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The flagellants apparently took this practice to its obvious ends. It might be obvious to you, but my poor little mind is boggling ten-to-the-dozen! What ends, and in what way obvious? Nuttyskin (talk) 11:46, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Obvious Ends? 

message: In the 1968 Richard Bradford (novelist) novel Red Sky at Morning (Bradford novel) set during World War II, he describes moradas:
"We were near one border of Amadeo's farm when I saw the little wooden building with a cross on the roof. It looked very old and weathered, with no windows and a chain and padlock on the door." 
This turns out to be a morada, which makes the protagonist question whether the owner is a Penitente, whom he describes thus:
"The Penitentes were a sort of outlaw branch of the Catholics who took everything very seriously, especially Good Friday. They'd pick a member of the church to play Jesus every year. He'd carry a cross while his friends all whipped him with rawhide and cactus and then they'd crucify him. In recent years they just tied him to a cross and left him all day in the sun. A hundred years ago they did the job right, with nails."
The Wikipedia article states: "They gathered in meeting houses known as moradas. Los Penitentes were perhaps best known for their songs of worship, called alabados, and for their ascetic practices, which included self-flagellation in private ceremonies during Lent, and processions during Holy Week which ended with the reenactment of Christ’s crucifixion on Good Friday." Were they mostly adobe? It might be clearer to spell out how far that reenactment goes (if it can be established).
In the novel, the morada's owner isn't really a Penitente. He built one so he could use it as a locker for game he hunted out of season, since not even a game warden would break into someone's private church. When I look at moradas on line they seem to be adobe, and larger for bigger gatherings. This description sounds like a private church, maybe just for one family. 
Mr. Bradford set the story in fictional towns in New Mexico and I'm not sure what other aspects can be ascribed to the Penitentes. For instance he later describes an extremely isolated NM town that speaks an old form of Spanish and that holds a bizarre Christmas ritual involving a bear. It's a work of fiction so there are no references attached. Wikipedia's entry about Bradford says:
"For many years, Richard wrote a column for "El Palacio", a quarterly magazine of the Museum of New Mexico. This quarterly wrote a tribute to Richard Bradford entitled, The Man Who Loved New Mexico, shortly after his death on March 23, 2002." Just my guess, but I wouldn't be surprised if he took care to get the details regarding these things right.
This is my first ever attempt to suggest, edit, or otherwise influence anything in Wikipedia. Constructive advice and pointers welcome. Dcarkansas (talk) 23:52, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Red Sky at Morning" reference