Talk:Symbionese Liberation Army/Archive 1

message: (On 16 May 1974...Mel's Sporting Goods Store...Teko brandished a revolver. The guard knocked the gun from his hand, and had succeeded in placing a handcuff on William's left wrist)
It would seem to make more sense to use one name or the other for the same person throughout the account of the events at the store. 01:32, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Use the same name

message: Where is the "irony" to which this passage from the article refers:
"The SLA committed their first revolutionary action in 6 November 1973 when they murdered Oakland, California schools superintendent Dr. Marcus Foster. They characterized Dr. Foster's plan to introduce identification cards into Oakland schools as "fascist." Ironically, Dr. Foster had opposed the use of identification cards in the Oakland schools, and his plan was a watered down version of similar plans that had been proposed by others. On 10 January 1974, Joe Remiro and Russ Little were arrested and charged with the murder of Dr. Foster."
If the SLA's intention, in killing Dr. Foster, was to send a threat to any who would propose plans for  any type of identification system (no matter how watered down that proposal might be, and regardless of the proposers expressed oposition to the plan), then there is no irony.  So, this passage is not NPOV.  Any idea how to fix it?
: NO NO NO, you're being too logical. They were irresponsible idiots. Anyway, I fixed it. 64.165.202.47 07:04, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Irony

message: Also, can we get a mention of the famous photo (taken by a bank security camera) of Patty Hearst in the bank with a machine gun?  Was this the Crocker Bank robbery?
: Do you mean this one:  [Hearst surveillance video still]. I don't know how to upload images yet, nor do I know if this is the Crocker Bank. Anyone?  -- Alcarillo 16:45 27 Apr 2004 UTC
:: that image is from the Hibernia Bank holdup, in San Francisco, not the Crocker holdup (just watched a doco on it 10 mins ago) -- Generica 03:37, Jul 31, 2004 (UTC)
From what I read at another source ([] in German) there was an earlier robbery from which the mentioned photo originated which was commited before the Inglewood incident.
The photo ([Hearst surveillance video still]) is Hearst at the Hibernia Bank (owned by her friend's father, I believe). In her trial, she asserted that surveilance showed 3 SLA guns trained on her. As for the Harrises, Every Secret Thing relates that they were given immunity to testify against Patty. An An 04:59, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Mention photo please

message: As apparent, the following text is extremely POV. I salvaged it here because some of it must be added to the article as it contains also important information that should be added to the article in NPOV format. -Lokakyy 23:44, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed because POV 

message: "The next action taken by the SLA was to rob the Hibernia Bank, an incident where two civilians were shot. Cinque's communique account of this robbery is dry, and attempts to rationalise the accidental nature of the two shootings (Stone 2004)." -- This is a partial sentence and it doesn't make sense to me but I dont have knowledge enough to correct it. attempts to rationalise the accidental nature of the two shootings...what? Pacian 07:31, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Pacian; I can't quite see how, or which sentence is partial. Can you maybe give an example of how it could be made whole? In terms of the content of the sentence, I agree that it is a little bit POV - it attributes thoughts and feelings to cinque which he may not have had. This is the nature of the whole experience of documenting the SLA - no-one knows for sure what most of them thought, felt and did because most of them are dead, and of those who are not dead, many have moved on to play other roles in life and may not want to be truthful about their experience. However, this sentence describes the actual communique as played in the Stone documentary film of 2004 (its really good and you might want to see it). Cinque does attempt to rationalise the shootings by saying something like "we didn't want to hurt anyone, but they got in the way of our armed revolution...they were casualties of war" (I can't quote it verbatim, though I did look for the sources). An An 23:10, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You know now tht I look at it I'm not sure what I was thinking. Maybe I thought it meant shootings' and I expected something like "the two shootings' occurances" or something. Disregard my comment. Pacian 05:21, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh cool, no worries then!  An An 13:31, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Partial sentence 

message: The Symbionese Liberation Army was an American group that was considered a revolutionary vanguard army and was a proponent of radical leftist ideology.
can we start with the provable facts here?  they had a philosophy...sorta....but i'm not sure anyone considered them a "vanguard army".  there's no citation for that and it romanticizes their existence.  in comparison, there's no question they were a criminal gang.
Justforasecond 06:49, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They considered themselves to be a revolutionary vanguard army. AnAn 21:37, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Come now, that's not what the first sentence really implies  "...was considered by its members..." Justforasecond 22:40, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't say that it did imply that. I think it would be better if it did imply that only though. AnAn 22:43, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

text: I've changed it to say that they considered themselved to be a revolutionary group. The Stone documentary does actually lend weight to the assertion that they were for a time considered to be a revolutionary army. Now, with the benefit of hindsight, we know that not to be true. However, at the time, there was very little info about the SLA, their size and their purpose. AnAn 22:49, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: To second AnAn, the Stone documentary indicates that the FBI and local police believed the SLA to be a revolutionary army, particularly during their panic early in the Hearst affair. Fifelfoo 23:17, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not sure you are seconding AnAn, she altered the statement already.  If the statement was referring to the FBI and local police, the SLA was "erroneously considered to be a vanguard revolutionary army for a very short period of time" would be more correct.   It's not a matter of technical accuracy, its a matter of POV.   Usually we'd put the truth about an entity before the misconceptions.   Justforasecond 00:16, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  pov headline 

message: Ironically, Foster had opposed the use of identification cards in his schools, and his plan was a watered down version of similar plans that had been proposed by others.
Do we have any more information about this?   Foster was the school superintendant and was...after all...the boss.   I heard he supported the plan and that it wasn't your run-of-the-mill id card to get you into football games sorta thang but a more extensive, spy on the kids measure.  I am having a hard time finding any details on it.  It was 23 years ago and it seems everyone is content to keep repeating this lemma about "id cards" and Foster opposing the plan and grudgingly looking for a compromise.
btw Oakland high schools all have high fences and in the 60s had police on campus.  Some have metal detectors.  Not sure the police are such a horrible thing, with all the violence that goes on.  But with fences, armed guards, metal detectors and a number for every resident...a place does begin to look prison-ish.
Justforasecond 05:36, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Its in Stone, 2004. AnAn 06:09, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you mean more info is in Stone?   Do you know the title of the book?  Justforasecond 06:19, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ironically 

message: what is the pointof the section on the geneva convention? Other than the groups mention of it. It seems sort of random and thus confusing. Especially that part about things under the modern laws? this part: "Under the modern Geneva convention regarding wars within states the actions of the SLA would probably be considered legal, however, this convention is very generous to combatant forces, allowing them to arrest and try opposing forces according to the arresting power's law." Additionally, does an "army" of 13 people count as a 'power' with the ability to carry out a war?
Novium 06:23, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The geneva conditions would not apply.   Al Gonzales has taught us all a few things in this regard.   The conventions only apply to traditional armies wearing uniforms.  Guerillas and terrorists don't qualify.  Justforasecond 18:42, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Geneva Convention 

message: Hi.....great article, but just made a small correction and amplification to the brief paragraph about the live coverage of the shootout.  Coverage of live news events was always "possible," even way back into the 50's, but very problematic with huge mobile vans the size of Winnebagos, 300-pound cameras and cables as thick as a horse's leg. It could be done (after all, it was one of these rolling monstrosities that broadcast the live images of Jack Ruby murdering Lee Harvey Oswald a decade eariler), but not without a good deal of time spent preparing and setting up.  What changed by the time of the SLA shootout was the introduction of smaller portable cameras that could be shouldered by one man but still produce a broadcast quality signal, much smaller videotape machines (3/4" tape versus the old 2" monstrosities) and smaller, more nimble vans. Thus, it was much easier to quickly travel to and set up at a rapidly developing event like the shootout. It was a breakthrough in technology, true, but it simply made such coverage more efficient, practical, and commonplace. 4.235.15.192 22:33, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Broadcast technology 

message: I'm removing the self-referencing redirects (e.g. clicking Patricia Soltysik redirects to the article the user is reading). It's sloppy and non-Wiki.
Robko626 19:16, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem with these pages is that the names at the SLA article are linked to the redirect pages. I'm putting the redirects back and cutting the links at the SLA page.  I hope that nobody just links the names without seeing where they go.  If somebody wants to write a page about Little or Remiro later, they can delete the redirects and rewikify the SLA page.--Hjal 08:20, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Redirects? 

message: Hi,
The Robert Stone link points to the novelist: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Stone when in fact it should point to the British director: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0832134/
Interesting article!
-M —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.215.139.56 (talk) 14:37, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong Robert Stone 

message: Hey does anyone know what happened to the SLA hydra image (previously at Image:Slahydra.png)? An An 07:25, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Added new one --Esemono 01:17, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  SLA Hydra Image 

message: The country in which they were active is not mentioned in the introduction. —AldeBaer 18:42, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: -- fixed -- Esemono 01:17, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  which country?