Talk:Democide

message: Please reread the note at the top of this page:
This is an article describing a theory. Please remember that in your complaints. The theory is contested but it is a theory and a body of research referenced extensively in the actual publications!
The issue is not 'Does Rummel's democide theory accurately describe the facts?' but 'Does this article accurately describe Rummel's democide theory?'
I notice that the tables of democides were removed on the grounds that they were not true to the facts. This is NOT a legitimate reason to remove this material. A legitimate reason would be that (a) the tables do not reflect the actual conclusions of  Rummel's democide studies, or (b) Rummel's conclusions are not relevant or useful as a part of the article. I think the tables are very interesting as a starting point for study and evaluation and should be restored if they correctly describe Rummel's conclusions.
However, I think that a new section is required after the tables, namely, "Criticisms of Rummel's democide conclusions" or the like. Judging by the intensity of feeling in this talk page, surely there must be reliable sources one can cite that take issue with Rummel's methods and conclusions. Please remember that Wikipedia rules frown on your providing your own synthesis of information as a means of objecting to Rummel's data. Please cite reliable published objections to Rummel's conclusions.
I suspect that some of the objections on this page that led to the deletion of the democide tables were made by editors who did not make an effort to study Rummel's methods or do serious research into the critical literature. If you have the time please check  Rummel's website and restore his tables accurately if he has published them there, while at the same time providing the Wikipedia reader with a summary of the important objections thereto. I leave this task to those of you who have some special interest or knowledge of these issues, since I am little more than an interested reader who would like to know the facts of democide studies, such as they may be. —Blanchette (talk) 03:49, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't understand You, mate. Those numbers came out of nowhere, they have not historic/scientific ground, they are fictional, exaggerated. It is not a theroy, it is just a neologism devised and used by one man. -- Bojan  Talk  06:35, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

text: There are many blatantly wrong figures there, that's for certain. How in the world would you suggest we include them while making sufficient note of their obvious inaccuracy? We simply cannot have an article listing misleading false figures on Wikipedia without a flashing, red sign saying "WROOOONG!! DO NOT CITE!" --DIREKTOR (TALK) 11:14, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

text: I do understand what is verifiability, but is doesn't imply that everything senseless work should be included into Wikipedia articles. I do not have any sources, I have mind and I can distinguish what could be truth and what is not worth of space it occupies. -- Bojan  Talk  10:00, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

text: Please, keep in mind that if you want to discuss Rummel seriously, you have to separate two things: his statistical approach and the data he used for his analysis. The core of the Rummel's methodology is the factor analysis. He described his methodology in ( R. J. Rummel. Understanding Factor Analysis. The Journal of Conflict Resolution, Vol. 11, No. 4  (Dec., 1967), pp. 444-480). The data he used for the analysis were obtained by him either directly from secondary sources (Conquest), or by approximation. Since the mathematical apparatus he used is universal, these two parts (apparatus and the data) can and should be discussed separately. The math (not the approach itself, but the way Rummel did it) has been criticised by several scholars, who argued that the random data set leads to the same conclusions. The data has been questioned, e.g. in the case of Yugoslavia, and Rummel admitted that the data for Yugoslavia might be incorrect, although other data were fine. Other scholars demonstrated that the data for the USSR were also exaggeration. One way or the another, Rummel's data and Rummel's methodology should be discussed separately, and only after reading his "Understanding Factor Analysis." can we discuss it seriously.--Paul Siebert (talk) 19:56, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  No, this article is not BS, though it may describe a false theory! 

message: IMO, Wikipedia does the world a HUGE disservice by giving credence to any definition of "genocide" other than "genocide" in absolute terms.  "Genocide" is the official flag word by which the U.N. must act under international law if spoken by anyone on the Security Council to save "generations of humanity" where men, women, and children are being murdered en mass. 60 Million murdered by Stalin, Hundreds of millions by the Chinese, Millions more by Hitler.
 HOW DARE YOU!   — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.21.133.231 (talk) 02:55, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: There is surely a shared definitions, along with many particulars attached in specific cases. Can one really say there is no shared legal definition of genocide??The Sound and the Fury (talk) 19:52, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: ...But I see what you mean. I hope my change is found reasonable. The phrase "narrow definitions" seemed to me slightly too emphatic for this narrow context. The Sound and the Fury (talk) 19:56, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Multiple definitions of genocide

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: There are a LOT of instances of FBI and CIA murdering entire groups of people and individuals for being freedom fighters and revolutionaries. Whether through COINTELPRO and false framings or funding deaths squads to kill communists around the world...that all fits the definition of democide. The section should be added. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.46.123.173 (talk) 02:06, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why dont the FBI and CIA have an entire section detailing their democides the way theres one dedicated to "communist states"?