Talk:Shintō Musō-ryū/Archive 1

message: I added the "kurod-period" description, the years between Gonnosuke and the start of Meiji-period for lack of a better term. I know the japanese like to use periods, like "showa"-period or "meiji"-period so I figured it wouldnt be totally inaproperiate.Fred26 12:49, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "Kurod-period" Description

message: Some bujinkan practitioners might take issue with the bujinkan being labeled as a modern art.  As a combined curriculum it may be new, but each of the nine schools of the bujinkan are about as old, if not older than SMR. I've removed reference to the bujinkan here since the correctness of this statement could be argued either way. Surely there are other modern jō staff arts which could serve as an example?--63.193.241.64 22:43, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Fine by me. The many controversial issues regarding Ninjitsu & Bujinkan shouldn't be discussed here in any case and as you said, there are better examples of jo-usage in other martial arts. This whole ninjitsu-thing is enough explosive as it is. I recommend the E-budo.com/forums for anyone interested in serious discussions regarding bujinkan. :) Fred26 07:53, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "...used in several seitei (modern) martial arts such as bujinkan..." 

message: I just went over the total size for this article with and without the History section. 53 kb with and 34 kb without. I'm gonna make preparations to split the History section into a new sub-article. Fred26 17:25, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Creating a seperate History section soon 

message: Please make sure that any information you place here is referenced properly, and put through a spelling and grammar checker. It also a good idea to throw it to someone else and have it checked for readability. I just went through and edited some of the writing and the "reiho" being related to the samurai. Honestly speaking, the reiho in SMR is more modern than anything else- taking on a flavor of Kendo at times and "Educational System/Military" budo (the barking commands, etc.). Truly, this stuff exists outside the ryu itself and in the society. The reiho that would exist inside the budo would be something different, as seen in other martial arts using special ceremonial bowing- those are truly "bushi" specific methods of etiquette.
Kudos! 
-Russ
Mekugi 11:40, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well I'm doing my best with what I have. English isnt my first langauge and I have no formal education aside from what I learned in high-school. Yer point about "reiho", (which I had to look up in a dictionary by the way), is well taken. Fred26 13:14, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

text: No worries! Good job really! 221.30.246.207 07:29, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fred (and all)

message: In my humble opinion...well almost humble anyways..is that this articles only weak point is the information on the organisations. I'm preparing right now to revamp it all and put some more meat on it and reorganise it. After that I'll head to the sub-articles for the final push. 
*edit*
By "weak" I mean it is severly lacking information in comparison to other sections. This article is far from perfect.Fred26 13:48, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Just a heads-up; the Organisations 

message: I submitted the article to GA status since I think it covers the criteria but points might be raised.  Since I didn't edit the article I suppose I could promote it myself but a second uninvolved opinion is always worthwhile.  Pass or fail the next step would be peer review.  I also think History of Shinto Muso-ryu Jodo should undergo the same process but I suggest we wait and see how this main article progresses or at least wait until on GA review is complete before nominating the second article.  This way points made for this article may also be pre-emptively taken care of for the second.  My feeling generally is that GA status followed by incorporating the changes suggested by peer review makes an article A-class and both the articles are good candidates.Peter Rehse 03:36, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: GA-status

message: I just had a thought. One of the main (original) reasons for having a notable practitioners section was to simply point a finger at individuals who practiced Jodo and were in one case or another, "noticable". Nakayama Hakudo is definietly a noticable person in the world of Budo. Donn Draeger likewise. But along the way I have (inadvertedly) modified it as to include high-rankers within the SMR with their own organisations. I think that perhaps I should infuse those entries into the lack-luster "Organisations"-section of the SMR-article and thus kill two birds in one stone. I still dont have a working idea since I still havent got all the materials I've been putting together for the expansion I promised earlier. But that is just a matter of time.
And as a continuation of that thought: I could put together sort of lineage chart for the organisations as they are today. It would be a version of the lineage-chart found in the History of SMR-article but would include how all these modern orgs trace their lineage back to Shiraishi Hanjiro, Uchida Ryogoro and so on. That may be overkill though, but I'll check to see if it is practical. Fred26 16:56, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The "notable practitioners" 

message: Sorry if things have moved slow but I've been taking a mini-break from wiki after the latest push I made. I'll get right on the finshing touches on this article (the issues we have discussed so far) as soon as possible. Fred26 20:28, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello all. As you may have noticed I have started with the total revamp of the organisations section. As of the date of this message I have only completed the first of several additions. I removed the old entry entirely but the information contained there WILL be incorporated once I get the material in order. So all the info found there earlier will be reinstated shortly. Fred26 10:02, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  I havent forgotten the improvment 

message: Hi Peter! Thanks for your input. Currently I am working on section that is perplexing to many - the reiho of Shinto Muso Ryu (i.e. bowing and formalities). There are basically three ways to do this stuff, one is "Modern-era formal"- the other is "19th-century-era formal" and then "Old-school formal." These don't necissarily follow set patterns from group to group, but I am hoping that an overview will be broad enough to make some things clearer. It's hard not to make it confusing to the average reader, so when I am finished I am thinking of sending a copy out to each of you before submitting it online.  Tell me what you think....
-Russ
(Mekugi 04:01, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Dont forget Kasari :) Fred26 10:03, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Improvement to bowing and formalities 

message: Thanks Ynambu, for the fantastic Japanese language work!  I had a question for you, though.  What determines whether a technique such as Gyakute Uchi should be written as 逆手打, or 逆手打ち ? 
Second question: I think the WP:MOS prefers more English-centrism for English language articles, and as such, the list of kihon should take the form of:
:*English translation (kanji romanized Japanese)
Can you provide the translations? Bradford44 16:55, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm no kanji-expert so I cant provide anything useful from my part, and I got no sources for it anyways. If you can provide a verified Matsui Kenji list of kanji along with his translation from his own hands then I think that will be fine. Fred26 06:31, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: No arguments here about his reputation :-). Fred26 09:22, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Kihon techniques

message: I have added a juttejutsu photo. I have also uploaded a hojojutsu photograph - hojo2.jpg. If anyone wants to put that photo in the article - go ahead. I'm still working on the Kanji.Ynambu 16:50, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Excellent pic. I'll put it on the Ikkaku-ryu-article as well. Fred26 05:56, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photos of related arts

message: "These designated levels are not standard but prone to the organisations individual preference."
I think this sentence does not mean what you think it means. I do not understand the use of 'prone to' here. 
How about "These designated levels are not standard but vary according to each organizations preference."Ynambu
: I need my coffee before I can put together fully logical sentences. Be my guest. Fred26 16:13, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Phrasing 

message: Here is something that might help. Its taken from Pascal Kriegers book and describes the meaning of the kihon-names. It might help yer translation further if you feel it's necessary.
Each of the Kihon in order 1-12.
*Hon:basic, normal;  Te: hand ; Uchi : strike
Striking with the hand in a basic position
*Gyaku:opposite, reverse ; Te:hand ; uchi: strike
Striking with the hand in reverse position
*Hiki: draw back; Otoshi: drop down ;Uchi: strike
Draw the jo back and strike down
*Kaeshi: change, turn around.; Tsuki: Thrust
Reverse the weapon and thrust
*Gyaku:opposite, reverse ; Te:hand ; Tsuki: thrust.
Thrusting with the hand in reverse position.
*Maki : envelop, wrap ; Otoshi: drop down.
To drop down with an enveloping movement.
*Kuri: guide; Tsuke: stick, glue
To guide and stick the weapon against the body
*Kuri: guide; Hanashi: Let go
To guide and let go
*Tai:body ; Atari:hit, crush in
To crush in the body
*Tsuki: thrust; Hazushi: evade, deflect; Uchi: strike
deflect a thrust and strike.
*Do: Torso; Barai (or harai): sweep; Uchi:strike.
Strike on a sweeping action to the torso.
*Tai:body; Hazushi:evade, deflect; Uchi:Strike
To evade with the body and strike
Fred26 19:29, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kihon translation 

message: After consideration I decided to do a redirect of the Shimizu Takaji article to the main SMR article. I have extremely little material on him in english and not even the SMR material I have in english go into enough depth as to warrant having a seperate article. Of course if anyone wishes to greatly expand the Shimizu Takaji article then by all means go ahead. Fred26 07:53, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shimizu Takaji now redirects here 

message: You have added a REALLY strange name to the captions 'Katsuhi ko Arai' - It's a mistake - In modern Japan Japanese can have only two names in their family resiter- family and first name. I deeply suspect the name is Katsuhiko Arai - Unless this guy is very very weird and has split his first name into two (it would be a first in Japan)  Please double check it. Ynambu 15:57, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Tis was a mistake. An extra space accidentaly sneaked into it. Yes its Katsuhiko Arai, a student of Nishioka Tsuneo. It's fixed. (edit) He is also shown here  Fred26 16:34, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm still confused and I don't want to edit without checking. In one photo you have it as Katsuhiko Arai and in the other it's Katsuhi ko Arai. Ynambu 17:12, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No need to be confused mate :-), I used copy & paste earlier to enter the names quickly. I forgot to fix the second photo. Fred26 17:31, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ok thanks. BTW did you note the photo of Shiraiishi. Nice to have that one. Really adds to the lineage.Ynambu 17:38, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it was a good find. Fred26 04:28, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Modern Japanese names 

message: Does the NJK use 面 or 表 for "omote", and does it use "kage" (影, meaning "shadow) or some homophone for "kage"? Let me know and I (or anyone else) can fill in the rest of the rank translations and kanji. Bradford44 18:23, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: They use 表 for "omote" and 影 for "kage" - See listing on NJK website here. http://homepage3.nifty.com/-samidare-/kensyuu1.html Ynambu 15:15, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Shihanke - 師範家 Ynambu 18:04, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Grades in the Nihon Jodokai