Talk:Operation Winter Storm

message: Soviet operations of the Second World War are in English, when used as the title of an article.  For example, Operation Uranus and Operation Little Saturn use the English translations of the codenames.  In English literature, Winter Storm (sometimes Winter Tempest) also tends to be used over Wintergewitter.  In any case, if Soviet operational names are in English, it would make sense if this article name was also in English.  JonCatalán(Talk) 06:31, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Requested move

message: ::Data on the strengts of the Soviet 2nd Guard Army. By October 23 (the date the army had been formed), 1942, this army was composed of:
::*1st Guard Rifle Corps (35 764 men)
::*13th Guard Rifle Corps (37 664 men)
::*2nd Guard Rifle Corps (17 136 men)The total strength was 90 564 men.
::Data on 4th Mech. corps. By Dec 1 the 4th Mechanized corps had 11 703 men, 79 T-34 tanks and 77 T-70 tanks and 97 BA-64 (armoured cars). 
::In addition, 300th, 98th, 3th Guard and, partially, 87th and 38th rifle divisions were deployed to reinforse the 4th Mech corps while 2nd Army had been being deployed. 
::Source: Исаев А. В. Сталинград. За Волгой для нас земли нет. — М.: Яуза, Эксмо, 2008. (Isaev A.B. Stalingrad. There is no land for us behind Volga. Moscow. Exmo.) Pages 369-370. ISBN 978–5–699–26236–6.I believe it may be helpful.Best regards--Paul Siebert (talk) 17:28, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Data on the strengts of the Soviet 2nd Guard Army etc

message: A very good article on a subject often glossed over in histories of the Stalingrad campaign.  My only quibble is that the Tiger tanks mentioned in the text apparently didn't participate in the operation.
The reference cited for the Tigers is Erickson (1983) p. 12.  But on p. 15 Erickson places the Tigers with the 6th Panzer Division's 65th Panzer Battalion, a unit that had been disbanded early in 1942 and was no longer part of the division.  Unfortunately neither mention of Tigers is referenced.
Another reference used in the article (McCarthy & Syryon 2002) states that Tiger Battalion 503 "was also to be added to the relief force" but arrived too late (p. 145).  Wilbeck (2004) writes on p. 58 that Tiger Battalion 503 wasn't sent to Army Group Don until 27 December 1942, arriving in January 1943.  Glantz (1995) makes no mention of Tigers in his account of Winter Storm, writing on p. 142 that they first went into action in the South on 7 January 1943.
By way of negative evidence, General Raus makes no mention of Tigers in his account of Winter Storm (Raus 2002).
In light of the above, I think the evidence for Tigers in Winter Storm is shaky at best, and all mention of Tigers should be deleted unless better evidence is available.
One final nitpick:  In the reference section, the McCarthy & Syryon title "Panzerkrieg" is misspelled as "Panzerkieg".
References:
Erickson, John (1983). The Road to Berlin: Stalin's War with Germany. New Haven, Connecticut: Yale University Press. .
Glantz, David M.; Jonathan House (1995). When Titans Clashed: How the Red Army Stopped Hitler. Lawrence, Kansas: Kansas University Press. .
McCarthy, Peter; Mike Syryon (2002). Panzerkrieg: The Rise and Fall of Hitler's Tank Divisions. New York City, New York: Carroll & Graf. .
Raus, Erhard; Newton, Steven H (tr) (2002). Panzer Operations: The Eastern Front Memoir of General Raus, 1941–1945. Da Capo Press. .
Wilbeck, Christopher W (2004). Sledgehammers: Strengths and Flaws of Tiger Tank Battalions in World War II. Bedford, Pennsylvania: The Aberjona Press. 
Hunpecked (talk) 08:36, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  No Tigers in Winter Storm? 

message: I have removed the reference to Tigers being directly involved in WS. However they were still used in the defensive fighting around the Rostov-on don sector in jan-feb so they were at the front during the stalingrad campaign. So pics still are relevant. Added link to 503rd heavy tank batt. noted they didnt arrive for the start of OWS. Hope ok Irondome (talk) 01:10, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Usage of Tiger I edit. 

message: states "A battalion of Tiger I tanks was deployed to Army Group Don to strengthen the German drive to Stalingrad." - this is simply NOT true! and as it has already been cleared , that in Winter Storm no Tiger Is were user, I suggest the picture of the Tiger I removed! Peterachim64 (talk)  — Preceding undated comment added 12:18, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  The picture of the Tiger I 

message: Lost Victories is hardly a reliable source, being self-serving, dated and POV driven. I propose replacing these citations with Robert Citino. Please let me know if there are any concerns. K.e.coffman (talk) 20:40, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: @K.e.coffman, well said. 171.76.0.69 (talk) 18:22, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations to Manstein's ''Lost Victories''