Talk:Coat of arms of Pope Benedict XVI

message: Where does this information about the camelaucum and it's coat of arms come from? I could find no other information whatsoever about it anywhere on the web. It would seem that someone just drew it up and put it on the page. I would like to be proven wrong, as the idea intrests me, but I suggest it be taken down until further proof of the idea's veracity can be shown.
:Found it on the American Heraldry Soc. discussion page, see "References" or follow this link . --Eoghanacht 13:53, 2005 Jun 12 (UTC)
:: Just because a web forum thinks something should be a certain way should not qualify it for inclusion.  Since COAs are regulated by different organizations and obviously by monarchs who use them, only those statements should be listed on this page.  If anyone has any proof that the vatican is considering other variants like the crown or the camelaucm (letterheads with it, press releases about it, etc) those should be included, not the thoughts of random individuals. Mbisanz 23:03, August 7, 2005 (UTC)
:::A compromise between whom and whom ... you think that Vatican will engage negociations with the American Gerialdry Soc. forum members ? Hektor 11:27, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Compromise?

message: The golden part can be read as a single chinese character (wang) or japanese kanji (oo etc.): 王. This character means king or ruler etc. and is used in combinations that mean vatican 法王庁, pope 法王 etc.
:(This was added to the article by user:T0ky0, but was later removed. Seemed interesting enough to add here, though.)
The similarity of the golden part of the mitre with 王 is an interesting association, but I question if it is relevant for the article, since nothing in the literature indicates that this meaning was intended by the designer and therefore is just coincidental. We shouldn't include any interpretation which was not intended. If nobody objects I am going to remove it within seven days. Gugganij 21:56, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the topic of Chinese characters should stay in the article in some form, as the perception of the "pope as king" is certainly pivotal to the reason why Benedict requested/allowed the removal of the tiara from the COA (although the reasons were never formally stated, as far as I can tell).  Therefore, it plays into a main theme of the article.  Besides, it is twice as interesting as it is potentially unencyclopediatic.  — Eoghanacht talk 13:13, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

text: That there is no doubt I found it interesting to realize that it can be read as 王 (although I know the character itself since I have been studying Chinese for two years now the association just didn't pop up into my mind). Nevertheless I am still not entirely convinced, if perceptions of the symbolism of the papal coat of arms have a place in the article (we might have to add that the Mohr of Freising might be seen as somewhat racist and the pallium resembles, well.... ;-) Anyway, I am not going to change it. Gugganij 18:35, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chinese character similarites 

message: To be honest I think it's ridiulous to state that Whether this breach of tradition is considered gravely intolerable, or simply overzealous artistic license, is a matter of opinion., since some might argue it is in fact tolerable and not overzealous. The pope, as a fact, has the power to alter any tradition which is not a matter of faith. So why can't he establish a new tradition, if he regards  the use of the tiara as not being appropriate anymore? Possibly the critics are a bit overzealous. 85.124.176.91 19:38, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The entire point is that he has the power to change heraldic custom, but has not done so.  All he need do is publish a formal decree to that effect.  Short of a decree, it can only be changed by established practice.  However: 1) a single pope cannot set an long term precident by example (if the next few popes kept the design change though, it probably would become established practice); 2) he cannot even start establishing a practice if he allows the blazon to be shown with with the tiara (as in the flower bed) occasionally.  Perhaps the theory (you removed) of why the Vatican is backpeddling on the design is technically unencyclopediatic, but the controversy over the design, and at least the acknowledgement of the mystery behind the mixed signals given by the Vatican are essential to the story of the COA. It is what makes a mainly academic topic interesting (maybe even fun) to read, and provides a segway for laymen to get an introduction into the rules of heraldry. — Eoghanacht talk 13:05, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Controversy of using the mitre 

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thread_title:  GA Re-Review and In-line citations 

message: This article's GA status has been revoked because it fails criterion 2. b. of 'What is a Good Article?', which states;
::(b) the citation of its sources using inline citations is required (this criterion is disputed by editors on Physics and Mathematics pages who have proposed a subject-specific guideline on citation, as well as some other editors — see talk page).
LuciferMorgan 18:22, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reasons for GA Delisting 

message: Why is there even a mention of a non-official blazon when there is an official version? At least move the unofficial one under the official one! 202.89.155.157 03:23, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not dare remove, but I have moved the non-official blazon.  Lima 04:31, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blazon 

message: Should there be any discussion of PapaRatzi's coats of arms while Archbishop of Munich, after coming to the Curia, and after his election as Dean? Gentgeen (talk) 04:55, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pre-papal coats of arms 

message: I have to say, when I looked at this coat of arms the first thing that came to mind is "why is there a black guy's severed head on it...?" It doesn't seem to be the most common way that people see it but if you search hard you can find some snippet.( from )  But then again, most people don't think of Germany fighting the Moors, even though in the 8th-9th century Bavaria was part of the Frankish Empire of Charlemagne, whom the Pope had declared to be the Roman Emperor, and Spain was just a narrow band of Marca Hispanica run by the Franks.  So it seems quite possible that the Bavarian diocese could have contributed troops to serve in the Reconquista holy war at the southern border.  And in the end, the official description doesn't say "Saint Maurice" or any of the other contenders.... it says a Moor's head, and there you have it.  Problem: I'm not a historian and I'm not sure how to run down whether the Bavarian diocese really did send troops to fight in the marches, and how close this would have come in time to the first use of the head in the 1300s.  Wnt (talk) 15:56, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, one would think a Good Article would address those issues that first come to the layman's mind immediately and in a logical order, but instead everything above the crack is devoted to extended wanking about the tradition and practice of heraldry. Sorry, but only the fanbois care about that. Of course this has its hilarious side as renfaire fanbois dogmatically insist that Ratzi is breaking all their precious rules, as if he isn't the Pope, in charge of his own sovereign state, and can declare any coat of arms he damn well pleases. IMO, the discussion of the meaning of the symbols from the RCC perspective should be at the top of the page and the competing renderings of the coat of arms in Elvish relegated to Notes or a box at the bottom. YMMV. 98.180.8.57 (talk) 09:33, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Severed head? 

message: Apparently the Pope replaced the mitre with the tiara at the tapestry hanging from his window.
See this youtube link. Gugganij (talk)
:Is there any evidence that it was the Pope who replaced the mitre with the tiara, that he personally approved the design of the embroidery?  (The non-detailed pictures I have found of what was previously used give the impression that there was no embroidery, and only something merely printed attached to the hanging tapestry.)  Or did some member of his staff simply accept a gift from the firm that made it? - a firm that specializes in liturgical vestments complete with maniple and that has a significantly named website: http://www.tridentinum.com/.  The Holy See's own website has made no change (as yet?): see this page.  Esoglou (talk) 19:14, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems that the replacement of the mitre by a tiara was not noticed by Pope Benedict until the media made a fuss about it. The new tapestry is no longer used and the old one with the arms of Pope John Paul II covered with a white cloth bearing those of Benedict is back in use. A website that comments on this return also says that vestments (made by the same firm?) that have the present pope's arms topped with a tiara are having the offending tiara removed.  See here.  Esoglou (talk) 11:41, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tiara back again? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Is there a difference between the coat of arms Ratzinger used as an archbishop of Munich and those that he adopted in Rome? --141.48.222.122 (talk) 00:06, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cardinal's arms