Talk:David Miller (Canadian politician)

message: My God, this article is about twice as long as the Wikipedia biography of Steve Jobs, and around the same length as the article for Winston bloody Churchill.  Did the City of Toronto pay for this, or is it simply a labour of love on the part of someone with Asperger's Syndrome, a strange obsession with political mediocrities and a lot of time on his or her hands?  If the latter, can I suggest that you move on to beefing up the profile of another equally prominent Canadian, such as Casey LeBlanc?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.181.7.213 (talk) 01:49, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Waste of Bandwidth 

message: The section on Environmental policy is dominated by the discussion on garbage. I would like to suggest that the text regarding garbage be placed in its own section. The remaining section could be expanded to include Miller's support for other environmental initiatives such as the 20 minute makeover, Trees Across Toronto, Roundtable for a Beautiful City, Wet Weather Flow improvements to name a few. Any comments? Atrian 01:03, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Garbage policy 

message: I trust this is real, and not an elaborate hoax.  CJCurrie 23:04, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Miller's blog

message: :Add  # Support  or  # Oppose  on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~.  Please remember that this survey is not a vote, and please provide an explanation for your recommendation.
====Survey - in support of the move====
# Support Mea Culpa...lol...I moved this page as a newbie ages ago, it was a clumsy mistake. I fully support the disambiguation page to become the primary page for this article as none of the David Millers are obviously more remarkable than the others, least of all the mayor of Toronto, who isn't known outside of Canada (as opposed to for example David Miller (singer) who is a multi-platinum selling artist of worldwide acclaim). David Miller, the politician should become David Miller (mayor of Toronto) or David Miller (Canadian politician).Rosa 20:04, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: # Support Mea Culpa...lol...I moved this page as a newbie ages ago, it was a clumsy mistake. I fully support the disambiguation page to become the primary page for this article as none of the David Millers are obviously more remarkable than the others, least of all the mayor of Toronto, who isn't known outside of Canada (as opposed to for example David Miller (singer) who is a multi-platinum selling artist of worldwide acclaim). David Miller, the politician should become David Miller (mayor of Toronto) or David Miller (Canadian politician).Rosa 20:04, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey - in support of the move

message: I don't think tacking on "left-leaning" to Toronto Life or "right-leaning" to National Post is appropriate or necessary. As a subscriber to TL, I don't find particularly leftish, but more importantly, it is not appropriate to jaundice the reader's perspective on a source unless it is totally wacko, like the Communist Party organ (in which case, it would be enough to describe it as such, rather than "the crazy extreme leftist People's Daily). Ground Zero | t 00:15, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Toronto Life

message: Gold Dragon's preferred version:
:Mayor Mel Lastman and Miller were generally said to have an adversarial relationship. This was exemplified during a May 2002 debate when Lastman yelled at Miller, "You will never be mayor of this city because you say stupid and dumb things!" Miller afterwards remarked that the exchange was what encouraged him to run for mayor. Despite being council opponents, Lastman attended the funeral for Miller's mother and lent his shoulder for Miller to cry upon. refJohn Barber, "Mel's funny, but Miller has last laugh", Globe and Mail, 23 May 2002, A19; James Rusk, "Lastman loses council battle", Globe and Mail, 23 May 2002, A19; Bruce DeMara, "Lastman attack falls flat", Toronto Star, 23 May 2002, B03; Linda Diebel, "Miller: A candidate 'clear on who he is'", 11 October 2003, A01./ref
CJCurrie's preferred version:
:In May 2002, Mayor Lastman criticized Miller for using the word "corruption" during a debate about the city's appointments process. Deputy Mayor Case Ootes censured Miller for his choice of words, but the council voted 27-16 to overturn this decision. At one stage in the debate, Lastman yelled at Miller, "You will never be mayor of this city because you say stupid and dumb things!" Lastman's comment was widely ridiculed, particularly in light of his own penchant for embarrassing comments. Several political observers believe that the exchange increased Miller's profile in the buildup to the 2003 campaign.refJohn Barber, "Mel's funny, but Miller has last laugh", Globe and Mail, 23 May 2002, A19; James Rusk, "Lastman loses council battle", Globe and Mail, 23 May 2002, A19; Bruce DeMara, "Lastman attack falls flat", Toronto Star, 23 May 2002, B03; Linda Diebel, "Miller: A candidate 'clear on who he is'", 11 October 2003, A01./ref
I think that we should look at how much detail is appropriate here. I think that GD's version provides an overview of the relationship between the two, while CJC's version gets mired in detail that, while interesting at the time, doesn't shed much light on the relationship, and covers a relatively minor episode (the use of "corruption"). I'd opt for GD's version. Ground Zero | t 12:51, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Mayor Mel Lastman and Miller generally had an adversarial relationship on council. This was exemplified during a May 2002 debate when Lastman yelled at Miller, "You will never be mayor of this city because you say stupid and dumb things!"  Lastman's remark was widely ridiculed in light of his own history of gaffes, and many believe the exchange increased Miller's profile in the buildup to the 2003 campaign. refJohn Barber, "Mel's funny, but Miller has last laugh", Globe and Mail, 23 May 2002, A19; James Rusk, "Lastman loses council battle", Globe and Mail, 23 May 2002, A19; Bruce DeMara, "Lastman attack falls flat", Toronto Star, 23 May 2002, B03; Linda Diebel, "Miller: A candidate 'clear on who he is'", 11 October 2003, A01./ref
CJCurrie 23:53, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Lastman paragraph

message: If Siemens' contention that it could have provided the cars for $100m less is here, then Bombardier's challenge to that claim should be here as well. From what I understand, there wasn't much substance to Siemens' claim. Ground Zero | t 12:51, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Bombardier v. Siemens

message: Could I please request that someone comment on these matters?  CJCurrie 04:45, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "Mayor Mel Lastman and Miller generally had an adversarial relationship on council.  During a May 2002 debate, Lastman yelled at Miller, "You will never be mayor of this city because you say stupid and dumb things!" Lastman's remark was widely ridiculed in light of his own history of gaffes, and many believe the exchange increased Miller's profile in the buildup to the 2003 campaign. refJohn Barber, "Mel's funny, but Miller has last laugh", Globe and Mail, 23 May 2002, A19; James Rusk, "Lastman loses council battle", Globe and Mail, 23 May 2002, A19; Bruce DeMara, "Lastman attack falls flat", Toronto Star, 23 May 2002, B03; Linda Diebel, "Miller: A candidate 'clear on who he is'", 11 October 2003, A01./ref 
CJCurrie 04:48, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The current dispute

message: It might be worth noting that the Sun's editor didn't apologize for "Miller as Hitler" cartoon.  CJCurrie 21:21, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: GoldDragon's latest edit

message: I see that there are intentions of trying to make this article a future FA. Although Did anyone considered nominating this article for at least GA-class? There are probably a few one sentence paragraphs that can be moved into another and maybe some wikifying in some spots and may be a bit too long but otherwise looks neutral, well written and it's not the reliable sources that are missing. Any thoughts about upgrading the class of this article?JForget  18:20, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Also it seems to be often occasionally updated (i.e : The recent massive budget shortfall possible for this year), so it looks pretty up to date.--JForget  18:29, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: GA?

message: I find that columnists such as John Barber of the Globe and Mail and Royson James of the Toronto Star have certain opinions that bias their columns to suit a particular point of view. Using them as sources for articles tends to skew the article towards their own personal viewpoint. This makes them unreliable as sources for articles on people such as David Miller who easily polarize opinions. I suggest they be excluded as appropriate sources. Comments? Atrian (talk) 16:31, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Exclude columnists as reliable sources from this article 

message: The recent attempt to shorten this article proved to be a failure as some people couldn't agree on what form the daughter article should take. Even the title, David Miller's role as mayor prompted a dispute over neutrality. My suggestion would be that one or more articles could be created based on the evolution of Toronto's post amalgamation government and structure. This content could include much of what makes up the discussion on policy issues that are included in the Miller article but could be expanded to include what happened during the Lastman days as well. While these issues are heavily influenced by Miller, I don't think they are specifically related to him, ie. they go well beyond what is traditionally included in biographical articles. Is this material better suited to a discussion on Miller as mayor or on Toronto as a city? EncyclopediaUpdaticus (talk) 15:20, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I was unable to come up with a more neutral name for the daughter article than "David Miller's role as mayor" at the time.  Since he is no longer mayor, how about trimming up the main article and the details can be found in the new daughter article "Mayoralty of David Miller" or something similar.  Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 22:08, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggestions for a shorter article 

message: Who keeps deleting the material about the 2008 Toronot explosions and how Mayor Miller was absent in the aftermath of the explosions???  Just because it looks bad on Mayor Miller, it CANNOT be erased!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.235.221.33 (talk) 21:05, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree. It looks bad on Wikipedia to have unsourced POV diatribes about a single incident on what purports to be a biography. If you can find reliable sources to say that rather than your own original research, then we could discuss whether it belongs in this bio or an article about the explosion but, as it stands, it belongs only in your personal blog. DoubleBlue (Talk) 01:47, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

text: Wikipedia is not a forum for your personal opinions. Neutral, verifiable media coverage in reliable sources of Miller being publicly criticized for his absence may be valid content if it's properly worded. But what you're adding is an unsourced personal diatribe. Bearcat (talk) 02:01, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: 2008 Toronto Explosions Aftermath

message: It's rare to find any article on Wikipedia that gives information without a positive or negative spin, but this is one.  No editorializing, just the facts.  Well done.
Wannabe rockstar (talk) 19:52, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Excellent article.

message: Is it necessary to note that David Miller is responding to the recent handgun violence in Toronto.Jupiter.solarsyst.comm.arm.milk.universe 00:35, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  The gun violence? 

message: Well, Wikipedia has some strange nationality procedure...so going by it, shouldn't he be considered to be a Canadian-British-American lawyer?  Wikipedia should really work on the issues of nationalities and ethnicities.  Norum 05:06, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  triple citizenship 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified