Talk:1993 Russian constitutional crisis

message: I wrote this article on my MS Word browser. When I logged on Wikipedia earlier today, the server was down. Eager to post the new article, I completed it on a Wiki clone throughout the day . Now that Wiki's online, there's still more work to be done; I'll be completing the notes, linking this to other articles, and adding some pics over the next couple of days. 172 05:32, 20 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: New article

message: Sorry I didn't catch this one as it was going through FAC...
a number of sentences needed rework.  And some npov tweaks -- 
a handful of epithets removed where inappropriate, certain
duplicated phrases removed.  +sj+ 04:01, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lots of copyedits 

message: It was a one party vote, these folks were no way in hell "elected".  Id like to see this changed but Im not going to do anything if somebody has a good reason for it.  Sexington7-Aug 19, 2006.
: We proceed to the Congress of Soviets article and read: "The fundamental difference from previous elections in Soviet Union was that elections were actually competitive. Instead of one Communist Party-approved candidate for each seat, multiple candidates were allowed. A variety of different political positions, from Communist to pro-Western, were represented in the Congress, and lively debates took place with different viewpoints expressed." 
: The RSFSR Congress we are actually talking about here was elected in a similar fashion in 1990. The great "democratic reformer" Yeltsin, a hardcore liberal fanatic who ruined the country was the RSFSR Congress chairman himself in 1990-91, so the whole thing must have been pretty democratic too, eh? It helps to check history before sticking black-and-white labels to things. The crazy, chaotic fight for power that was happening during that time (and during any time anywhere, actually) is much more complicated than the mainstream favorite binary "democratic elections"-"opressive KGB dictatorship" one-size-fits-all explanation. Guinness man 22:11, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question as to why we are calling the Former Soviet Parliment "elected". 

message: The article takes a decided pro-Yeltsin view, doesn't adequately present opposing points of view, and gives little in the way of other groups positions except Yeltsin and the Parliment.
:To me, on the other hand, it reads like an anti-Yeltsin rant. 64.236.80.62 (talk) 11:40, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Doesn't seem very balanced or objective to me.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.214.205.62 (talk) 13:53, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: NPOV

message: How did this article get FA status, let alone time on a main page, when it has so few sources? --DMCer 00:29, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Possibly because it has been promoted in 2004, when the criteria were much lower? Errabee 10:08, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources? 

message: Article has major neutrality issues. A lot of unattributed commentary on the events, lack of citations, etc. Maybe would be better to start from scratch or to revert to an older version that was better. But we all know that it's not how Wikipedia works.--Sir Anon (talk) 12:09, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Since no specifics are provided about "major neutrality issues", "unattributed commentary", or "lack of citations", I suggest that the neutrality message box be removed. 216.40.66.216 (talk) 03:52, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think specifics is needed, the article is full of emotionally loaded negativity. I did a minor change where I removed one place where it said "illegal" and changed the loaded word "neoliberal reforms" to "economic" reforms, as examples of what could be done do make this article a bit more neutral. --OpenFuture (talk) 13:46, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

text: I fixed some more things. It's still not particularrily neutral, though, and the article for example completely fails to mention that the congress consisted to 86% of old soviet communists, memmbers of the dictatorial and antidemokratic russian communist party, that was the only allowed party in the 1990 elections. This *is* rather relevant and should me mentioned somewhere, --OpenFuture (talk) 06:49, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

text: OK, I think I've cleaned up most of the emotionally laden POV wordings now. Next step is to actually find references and fact check the whole thing. If somebody has some good references that would be handy. If not, I can't do much, and the article will have to stay in it's current, bad, condition. --OpenFuture (talk) 10:06, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[WP:NPOV|Neutrality]] 

message: I removed it from the article, makes it sound like it was a civil war or something, when in reality it affected one building in Moscow...--Kuban Cossack (По-балакаем?) 16:08, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  fUSSR conflict box 

message: The article looks dreadful. I have rewritten the beginning to get rid of all emotional nonsense "first blood shed", "red-brown coalition", etc. and excessive capitalisation. Please, keep only the most necessary information in the beginning. All details should go the main body of the article. DR2006kl (talk) 13:51, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The article is not dreadful. Improvements are always welcome, of course. --Miacek and his crime-fighting dogM. se fâche(woof!) 14:07, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: "On Sunday, October 3, demonstrators broke through police cordons and urged by Rutskoy and Khasbulatov, started storming objects in Moscow. The army had initially declared its neutrality. But in early morning hours of October 4, troops loyal to the president stormed the Supreme Soviet building and captured the leaders of the armed resistance." is dreadfully POV. "armed resistance" is too revolutionary; "urged" is too emotional... Then I am not sure why it is necessary to mention the storm of Ostankino in the introduction at all. The beginning and the end are NPOV-historic facts. Ostankino may be the turning point but only in POV pro-Eltsin interpretation: "the bad guyz started shooting first, so we retaliated". DR2006kl (talk) 13:30, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I regard mentioning the October 3 riots as essential. Otherwise, a reader wouldn't understand, why was it necessary to shoot the white house. --Miacek and his crime-fighting dogM. se fâche(woof!) 16:07, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: And why was it necessary to storm Ostankino? Where do we stop? Emphasizing one of the events in the chain is POV: someone else may want to emphasize the switching off hot water and electricity at the parliament building. The beginning and the end are indisputable facts: I dont think you can pick a single undisputed event in the middle of the chain to include in the introduction. BTW, does anyone claim that Eltsin decided to storm the parliament after the Ostankino? It seems to contradict what I can read in the only reference. DR2006kl (talk) 12:33, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

text: “Emphasizing one of the events in the chain is POV” - which POV am I pushing then? Communist, nationalist, pro-Yeltsin?“ someone else may want to emphasize the switching off hot water and electricity at the parliament building″ - switching electricity on and off is not as essential as the start of the armed rebellion, wouldn't you agree? So, why highlight the 3 October then? In my opinion, for obvious reasons. Whereas there had been both support and opposition to Yeltsin' activities up to this point, the public opinion changed in favour of Yeltsin, once his opponents started storming buildings in Moscow. E.g. both Yavlinsky and Gorbachev, previously critical of Yeltsin's handling of the crisis, expressed support for Yeltsin via Russian television, let alone Gaidar and other Yeltsin loyalists. Whether there was indeed provocation involved, is a matter of dispute. Storming the mayor's office and Ostankino did offer some pretext for getting the army involved, on the other hand, after those events, Yeltsin's team didn't have much choice either, but to suppress the Rutskoys and Makashov's activities by using armed forces. Miacek and his crime-fighting dogM. se fâche(woof!) 13:52, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Pro-Eltsin, off course. Switching off electricity and cordoning off the parliament building is, by any means, extra-ordinary events in a democratic state. You create an impression that the sides followed normal political discourse when suddenly the parliament leaders got mad and stormed a television station. If you are not prepared to describe the full sequence of escalating events in the introduction, please leave only undisputed events in the introduction. DR2006kl (talk) 14:29, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

text: I recently read an interesting article on the subject, written by a Yabloko politician. I've cited the article in our text and suggest you take a look, too, in case you speak Russian. If you do not read Russian, don't worry, I'll summarise it tomorrow for you. Did you know that the talks held under aegis of the Russian patriarch initially led to agreement on lifting the blockade and at the same time disarming the Supreme Soviet supporters & the building. As there was electricity switched on again and the blockade practically lifted by October 2, the Supreme Soviet leadership could publicly denounce the very protocol their emissaries had signed, and demand bluntly annulling Yeltsin' degree 1400. --Miacek and his crime-fighting dogM. se fâche(woof!) 14:44, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have just read it but is not a NPOV-source. And it is irrelevant to the discussion of whether the storm of Ostankino needs mentioning in the introduction DR2006kl (talk) 14:57, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Miacek, you have no desire to discuss it here and keep reverting my edits. I repeat the introduction should be short and only include indisputably essential stages in the development. Your edition presents the events as the parliament is suddenly snapped and stormed Ostankino. If you insist, we can add the storm of Ostankino but then we should mention that Ostankino was controlled by Eltsin and the leaders of the parliament have no access to television. I think all of this is too irrelevant for the introduction DR2006kl (talk) 09:44, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Beginning 

message: The only reference  sates the dates as 21 сентября - 4 октября 1993 г. but the page used to state 5/10/1993 as the end. Why? The white house was stormed on 4/10. Were there any significant developments on 5/10? DR2006kl (talk) 13:45, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't add it, yes, it needs checking. --Miacek and his crime-fighting dogM. se fâche(woof!) 16:07, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dates of the crisis 

message: The section starts with "As part of Russian economic reform...", followed by anti-Eltsin's rant. 92 was a tough year, indeed, but 93 was much better than 92 or 91 or 90 or 89. It sounds like blaming a surgeon for the cancer. The reference to economic reform goes to economy of Russia for no particular reason. If other people around think that the economy is crucial to the crisis, I suggest someone should write a proper balanced section on it. Otherwise, we should just say that there was a significant political opposition to the economic policies without all this nonsense such as "prices skyrocketed" and "protracted recession" DR2006kl (talk) 12:55, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: “As part of Russian economic reform during the 1990s, Yeltsin's program took effect on 2 January 1992.[2] Soon afterward prices skyrocketed, government spending was slashed, and heavy new taxes went into effect.″ this is factually correct and I see no neutrality issues here. This sentence adds some background: inflation skyrocketed indeed (over 1000% in 1992), as the state control of prices was lifted (within the framework of transition from socialism to capitalism). --Miacek and his crime-fighting dogM. se fâche(woof!) 14:00, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  The first sentence is factually correct but it creates a false impression that everything was fine in 1991 and then Eltsin came and screwed it up. "Prices sky-rocketed" is a half-truth: you could not buy anything at the official "prices" in 1991. How do you compare 2rb/kg 1991 sausage which you cannot buy with 200rb/kg 1992 sausage that you can buy? In particular, the third sentence "A deep credit crunch shut down many industries and brought about a protracted depression" is POV. The depression started in 1988, in my view DR2006kl (talk) 14:39, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, adding information on the state of planned economy during the Perestroika (in Russia, also known as Katastroika) era would be useful. Regardless of that, the transition was a very painful one and, obviously, millions of people rapidly lost whatever benefits the socialist economy had to offer, falling to misery, which of course fuelled the national-communist opposition. As for economic depression, you are right, but note that the decline had been 'mere' -3% in 1990, compared with -13, -19, -12% in 1991, 1992 and 1993, resp. ()--Miacek and his crime-fighting dogM. se fâche(woof!) 15:01, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Miacek has posted on my talk page, asking me to have a look at the article, I am only too happy to. The first thing, I am astounded that it was ever a WP:FA; was that status really that easy to reach back then? Instead of worrying too much about neutrality and the like at the moment, the thing that would most concern myself both as an editor and as a potential reader of the article, is that it is hopelessly missing sources. The event occurred long enough ago that there will be plenty of scholarly sources on this, both in English and Russian, with which can be used to build a sourced article. But as it stands right now, it seems to me that the wrong issues are being discussed. First and foremost, the way the article stands now, an editor such as myself who ensures their own writing is sourced, could very well come along and remove around 95% of the article as it is hopelessly under-sourced. Try to find scholarly sources which discuss the crisis and use them (use media sources as a last resort). I have found that the peer-viewed journals from http://www.da.mod.uk/sites/da/colleges/arag/document-listings are quite neutral, and provide objective insight into Russian events; not having looked at all the documents they have, I am not sure if they have documents which cover the crisis, but it's worth a look. Without sources being provided, it is in my opinion somewhat pointless to worry about other things, until such time as the article is sourced. I working on something else at the moment, but when this is done, I will be more than happy to lend a hand on this article if still needed. --Russavia Dialogue 08:46, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intensifying executive-legislative power struggle 

message: I recently came across such a thing: http://www.panorama.ru/works/vybory/party/afgan.html. В сентябре 1993 руководство СВА/НПП поддержало президентский указ N 1400 о роспуске парламента, из "афганцев" - сотрудников охранных предприятий были сформированы дружины, участвовавшие в блокировании Белого Дома. This might merit mentioning in the article, but as of now, I haven't found any further information on this topic (and haven't noticed any acts of certain NPP militants in videos of the events). Note also that this 'People's Patriotic Party' is not identical with this. --Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 08:26, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Trivia?

message: I have just read the russian pages  and 
They are of considerably higher quality, with the good amount of citations. Both of them are rather NPOV in my view, although one has a POV tag. I propose to get rid of most of what is written here and translate the russian pages. Any thoughts? DR2006kl (talk) 14:01, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree. I've read corresponding Russian pages, some are more neutral, but most of them want to push through the view that Makashov's rag-tag army that attacked public buildings was in fact just group of 'demonstrators' etc. See also . The article there has npov tag for reasons. And we have English Wikipedia here. I've introduced some things here that would get lost, in case we replace the page with a translation. --Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 15:24, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It is still better with 50+ reference and the second page has no POV tag!! I am sorry but most of the things you introduced here is either Eltsin's propaganda or of no encyclopaedic value. It just makes the article too long. DR2006kl (talk) 15:31, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think adding info on the relevant politicians choice on October 3 is “Eltsin's propaganda or of no encyclopaedic value”. I'd say none of your edits here has any particular encyclopedic value. You should first try to add some sources instead of engaging in 'neutralizing' the text in the manner of just removing relevant information (WP:IDONTLIKEIT). --Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 16:09, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you seriously think that Okudzhava and Gorbachev are relevant politicians? Gaidar and Luzhkov are, indeed, relevant but the nature of this change as well as other your changes make me suspect that you are pro-Eltsin guardian of this page and not a serious editor. A serious NPOV editor would have tried to analyze which regional leaders supported which side. And thanks for blocking me, it undoubtly proves that Okudzhava is a relevant politician. BTW, I took another page at the russian page. One is, indeed, POV and I would not put some of their emotional statements in but it has a clear structure. I still propose to change the format of this page to a similar of russian one but without POV statements DR2006kl (talk) 06:40, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

text: Thanks for your (yet another) straw man argument! Okudzhava and Adamovich are indeed no politicians, but I think they are what Russians call общественные деятели (the Civic Union, on the other hand, was a major player). Besides, it's sort of hypocritical for someone whose contributions to the Wikipedia's content have been absolute zero so far, to come and start ad hominem attacks against a user who has created a number of articles (hopefully NPOV enough) on the topic of Russian politics and has added most of the references the page at hand has. Instead of soapboxing here, you might want to start looking for your own sources by using, say, books.google.com. I have also invited constructive users to join in, but as for you, well, I think for some time it's EOD indeed. --Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 10:43, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: This article requires not only references but also clean-up and NPOV-revision which I am trying to do. I am glad for you that you have enough spare time to contribute to Wikipedia but your personal attacks are not acceptable. I dont have a luxury of a lot of spare time and I contribute only to articles of special personal interest. 
Adamovich is someone who wrote one excellent screenplay, Okudzhava is a popular song-writer, Gorbachev is a discredited (by the time of the events) politician. Their opinion are as relevant as opinions of Michel Houellebecq, Bob Geldof and Margaret Thatcher on the war in Iraq. Where is the straw-man argument? DR2006kl (talk) 11:51, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comparing with corresponding russian pages 

message: Miacek, I suggest you write your new edit of the introduction here. Please, do it without laying a blame on any side. If I find it NPOV, we can ask to unlock the page. BTW, I have checked older version 1993_Russian_constitutional_crisis&oldid=4866799le from the day the article was featured. It is very pro-parliament and contains the surviving phrase "The ten-day conflict had seen the most deadly street fighting in Moscow since the Bolshevik Revolution in October 1917". As far as my recollection goes, 1917 revolution was relatively quiet in Moscow as oppose to 1905 revolution. I suggest changing it to 1905 revolution.DR2006kl (talk) 14:12, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit War 

message: I have removed the NPOV tag as the dispute has grown stagnant, and the section in question appears to be neutral. If the dispute arises again, contact me before re-adding the NPOV tag.Drew Smith 06:06, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV tag 

message: If possibly, article need more images of this event, not only White House photo, and factions of CPD. Seryo93 (talk) 12:47, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: There's always the problem with copyright. Theoretically it would be easy to add screenshots from movies available at youtube or rutube. --Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 00:31, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Can images from visualrian.ru be used here under fair use? I think, it's better variant, if it's possible. Seryo93 (talk) 15:14, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: “I wouldn't buy that”, though I've considered this option, given what abundance of good images the VisualRIAN has (yeah, price in rubles standing next to them, too :)). True, I've seen some of those used in Ru wiki, but there's no certainty, that the images won't be deleted by some sysop. --Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 15:18, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry. I've not seen, that it's (photos) for sale. I think, there is more free images around internet Seryo93 (talk) 17:46, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

text: Yep. By 'not buying that' I actually didn't mean it literally of course, in that I have not considered buying the images they offer :). But yes, a sum next to an item indicates they 'mean business' in defending their ownership rights. --Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 18:34, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It's possible to colorise grayscale photo from infobox using AKVIS coloriage? I think, it's will be good, if this possible. Seryo93 (talk) 11:38, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Images required

message: The quality of this article has deteriorated a bit over the years. I have restored an earlier draft of the article, while keeping some valuable more recent additions. If any salvageable content has been lost, please let me know so that I may assist in restoring it. Thanks in advance. 172 | Talk 07:10, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: First, you don't own the page. That it 'has deteriorated in the meantime' is your opinion based on no evidence. How can it have deteriorated from the point when there were basically no sources at all, as pointed out by another user?! Second, you didn't do any clean-uo, but basically made a blind revert to the time you last edited the page years ago , you also erased sourced material other users and me have added in the meantime. Instead, you re-introduced unsourced paragraphs. There have been plenty of disputes in the meantime and now you come up with your years' old version, removing - sorry, this is not clean-up, vandalism rather --Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 11:37, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

text: I'll list some of the points that show your newest version is likely a blind revert and caused loss of information
# without any reason, the infobox was deleted
# you deleted reference to the information on what side politicians like Yavlinsky took and what they opined
# not surprisingly, you managed to delete the passage on Rutskoy-Khasbulatov 'war cries' at the balcony of the White House on October 3
# you even managed to delete my totally neutral additions to the economics/statistics section (GDP growth etc)
etc.
All in all, your 'clean-up' effectually threw into dustbin other people's work on the article. Thus, please do not revert anymore, but try to find new sources; if you think that something ought to be removed, pls discuss here first. --Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 11:45, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Cleaning up

message: Miacek, 
I think I've restored almost all of the old content. See the additions here. Much of the content had to be edited for style. It was apparent that non-native English speakers drafted much of the writing. Please do not take offense to my comment. Your English is much better than my Russian, which I have almost entirely forgotten after taking classes nearly 40 years ago. 172 | Talk 20:36, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The best way to fix style is just to use the draft page I created. Most of the additions since late 2008 are very likely from me, most of those translated from Russian and therefore obviously in need of revising esp by native speakers. However, stylistic problems normally would not require more than just fixing. --Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 20:54, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The draft page is an unnecessary step. I think I've restored/edited the vast majority of your additions since late 2008. The article is now better than it was a few days ago. If I've missed anything, I'll be happy to edit it and restore it. 172 | Talk 20:57, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

text: I have just re-added a para on Constitutional court decisions. It might look as trivia, but actually illustrates the situation much better than general statements that by that time there was dual power in earnest or similar. --Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 21:14, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I aggree. Thanks for the addition. 172 | Talk 21:21, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

text: Last stable version was indeed much better. I reverted to it. Let's start from last version, instead of reverting everything.Biophys (talk) 01:49, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Restoring more old content

message: Regarding the recent removal of three flags from the infobox: I think having the flags there is justified (with the exception of the Andreyevskiy flag perhaps, this was less frequently used). 
It is common to use in our infoboxes the unofficial flags of the opposing sides in case of a civil war. Both the Red Flag and the so-called Romanov Flag were widely used by the rioters, whereas the Russian tricolor remained hoisted on the Supreme Soviet building but was not used by their supporters. Additionally, we should list (next to the flags) some of the organizations that actively participated in the protests. At least I would add National Salvation Front. Miacek and his crime-fighting dog  (t) 13:42, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Whilst I fully agree that we should list the major organizations that actively participated in the riots, I don't think that "their" flags are useful here. The infobox shouldn't convey any extra information, it should only be a summary of the article. And IMO the flags they used are of very little consequence anyway. The purpose of the flags in the infobox should be to help our readers identify the participants. This is only possible if they are recognizable as the flags of these entities (or at least occur several times in the article). If they are not and if they serve only decorative purposes (or are just an overly cryptic way to encode their ideology), they probably shouldn't be used at all. The obscure flags from the other side, albeit "official", should probably go as well for the same reason, but with the Supreme Soviet supporters the situation is worse, as the wrong impression may be created that they are somehow affiliated with the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union. If one needs to know what their flags were, that information should be in the articles on these entities, with due explanations. Personally I don't think it is a good practice to use such flags (and this is not about the distinction official vs. unofficial, btw), no matter how common it is, but if you think it is a common practice in our infoboxes, go ahead. Colchicum (talk) 10:27, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flags? 

message: The side pane for this article contains multiple "Russian" flag icons. Some have a lighter blue strip and some have a darker blue strip. I know absolutely nothing about Russian history, but this is a little odd. 180.150.83.139 (talk) 08:18, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lots of different flags in side pane 

message: Most people who opposed Yeltsin were democratically elected representatives. 
The Opinion is largely focused on pro-Yeltsin factions than largess. Also number of people polled is hardly stated. There is a deception going on here that, most Russians supported Yeltsin Action
I remember the reactions from International press, they were very critical of Yeltsin yet there is no section on International Reactions
---------------------------------------  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.179.14.245 (talk) 09:27, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that there are problems with verifiability. When I first started editing the page in late 2008, there were hardly any footnotes at all, as the original version was written during the early days of Wikipedia, when the verifiability policies were different. As the unsourced material in the article mostly seems correct, it has not been removed, but once contested, it can be done so easily. I'd welcome if you'd change the data based on sources, e.g. by using the corresponding article in ru.wiki, that has many more sources listed. Miacek and his crime-fighting dog  (t) 09:50, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section: Public opinion on crisis 

message: During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
* http://www.ecsocman.edu.ru/images/pubs/2006/05/14/0000277176/042.PIKHOYA.pdf
** In 1993 Russian constitutional crisis on 2011-05-25 06:05:25, 404 Not Found
** In 1993 Russian constitutional crisis on 2011-06-24 20:05:26, 404 Not Found
--JeffGBot (talk) 20:05, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 

message: During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
* http://web1.law.edu.ru/magazine/article.asp?magID=5&magNum=5-6&magYear=1994&articleID=151704
** In 1993 Russian constitutional crisis on 2011-05-25 06:05:31, 404 Not Found
** In 1993 Russian constitutional crisis on 2011-06-24 20:05:45, 404 Not Found
--JeffGBot (talk) 20:07, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 2 

message: The apparent impeachment of Yeltsin by the Congress is a major element in this story.  Yet it never happened.  There was no quorum, so any purported impeachment was as invalid as Yeltsin's dissolution of parliament!203.184.41.226 (talk) 08:46, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Impeachment 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 7 external links on 1993 Russian constitutional crisis. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://old.nasledie.ru//oboz/N09_93/9_02.HTM
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.kommersant.ru/doc.aspx?DocsID=26903
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.panorama.ru/gazeta/p32frac.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.zavtra.ru/cgi//veil//data/zavtra/98/239/21.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.scilla.ru/works/partii07/kprf.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://lenta.ru/lib/14164180/full.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110716043414/http://vivovoco.rsl.ru/VV/PAPERS/HONOUR/LETT42.HTM to http://vivovoco.rsl.ru/VV/PAPERS/HONOUR/LETT42.HTM
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on 1993 Russian constitutional crisis. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110723105916/http://rutube.ru/tracks/2075182.html?v=98de7ffd647be63539e63ac035f67f84 to http://rutube.ru/tracks/2075182.html?v=98de7ffd647be63539e63ac035f67f84
*Added archive http://www.webcitation.org/5iRrFPgam?url=http://www.zavtra.ru/cgi//veil//data/zavtra/98/239/21.html to http://www.zavtra.ru/cgi//veil//data/zavtra/98/239/21.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20091002080416/http://document.kremlin.ru/doc.asp?ID=085389 to http://document.kremlin.ru/doc.asp?ID=085389
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Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 08:54, 16 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: When reading the Russian version of this same article, I noticed that it is claimed how civilian casualties of armed conflict at Ostankino are all shot by police forces, and how rebels hardly shot back, if they shot at all. Now, the source of these claims are individual testimonies by some of the protesters (which are, obviously, biased and unreliable) and report by Duma Investigative Commision of 1999 (written by members of the opposition; most of the writers are Comunists or have Communist past, and all of them supported the rebel side in 1993, so it's hardly a neutral assessment). On the other hand, most reputable Western sources report it as a battle between two armed fractions, with lots of gunfight on both sides. Is there any reputable source which would merit a reference on the 'other side' view of the Ostankino conflict?
: In 1993 the imperialists showed their true bestial, fascist grin by shooting the Soviets and citizens. It has been featured in the First Imperialist War, World War II, Vietnam War and the like. If you consider communist (and socialist) sources, including Western ones, biased, then I consider bourgeois sources, including Western ones, biased. You should not refer to gossip, but to scientific historical works, on Wikipedia. Gnosandes (talk) 16:28, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ostankino - 'battle' or 'massacre'? 

message: The section includes a very long section on economic reforms, based solely on reference [54]. It certainly does not belong there, but rather in "Origins", and itself is described in other Wikipedia articles linked, such as Economy of Russia. 83.190.80.156 (talk) 17:47, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mass protests and the barricading of the parliament section wierd 

message: There's a recent article that claims the impeachment of Yeltsin only occurred after a large number of members of parliament were expelled so that a reduced quorum could be met. The article is https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/10/vladimir-putin-boris-yeltsin-russia-parliament-shelling.html . The claim is "A minority of legislators showed up for the vote, not enough for a quorum, so Khasbulatov formally expelled the no-shows and declared a quorum met". Does anyone have another source to support this claim? It seems relevant if true; on the other hand, I've never heard this claim before. 86.189.224.154 (talk) 11:59, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quorum for the impeachment of Yeltsin