Talk:Cheese/Archive 1

message: Someone please change the most consumed American cheese to read "fior di latte" and not mozzarella. Mozzarella is made with buffalo's milk, the one consumed by Americans is made by cow's milk, and is thus fior di latte. this is a common mistake and technically erroneous, so please change.  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.133.143.171 (talk) 10:12, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: American consumption

message: If anyone wants, I have 21 pictures of cheesemaking, covering three cheeses (a marbled cheddar, ricotta, and mascarpone) here.  For a description of what I was doing when these pictures were taken, visit here.  I took these when working to get approval from the health department to make cheese for sale at a farmers market - consider them to all be public domain.  - Rei
: Post them up somewhere, I'm sure someone can find a good use for them :) -Iopq 08:27, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Pictures

message: Perhaps the users maintaining this page would like to assist with salvaging Danish Blue cheese.  The page has been the subject of some less-than-wiki antics, and needs help.  I see where there is on-going discussion of how to handle specific types of cheese; the outcome here should be applied there.  I will add the cheese category tag and a See Also back here to this article.  --Mddake 06:30, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Danish Blue Cheese article

message: I deleted this from the trivia section:
:Cheese, grated and mixed with beer, is one of the main ingredients in the British dish Welsh rarebit, (archaically known as Welsh rabbit, yet having nothing to do with actual rabbits).
Hopefully a non-controversial edit; there are a lot of foods which have cheese as one of their main ingredients and this one doesn't need a special callout, since it isn't inheritly more interesting than fondue or quesadillas or cannolis. Plus, the etymological information given there is mostly wrong, according to the Welsh rabbit page. Bunchofgrapes 23:12, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Makes sense to me. --fvw<SMALL>*</SMALL> 23:17, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deleted Welsh rarebit "trivia" 

message: Could someone clarify this, please? 
The kosher prohibition against consuming dairy and meat in the same meal does not apply to cheese itself, even when made with animal-based rennet. (The cheese is still considered a dairy food, of course, and can't be eaten with other meats.)
Is it just me or do those two sentences seemingly contradict each other?  If the second sentence is accurate, what exactly does the first sentence mean?
:It means, even though kosher animal-based rennet is a "meat product", you can still eat the cheese itself - it is not considered a prohibited mix of meat and dairy, basically, I think, on a technicality that says that rennet is a meat product but not a "food."  I admit that the article's phrasing is ambiguous at best, I was just trying to point out that animal-rennet cheese is kosher, which is rather counterintiuitive, at least to me. Bunchofgrapes 15:03, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Kosher

message: This article doesn't have very much about the way cheese is made... I came across Cheesemaker which I think should be deleted, but perhaps some of its content could be used here. --BigBlueFish 20:19, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It does now. See also Home cheesemaking, which has more detail.(But probably needs some merging work with this page, since I wrote the stuff in this page without knowing of the existence of that one.) Bunchofgrapes  (talk) 15:42, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Production of cheese 

message: Not many people may know that cheese, like chocolate, has certain specific addictive properties.  Casomorphin is the chemical in cheese that is responsible for this and it has opiate like effect.  I'm not if this has a direct opiate effect or if it needs to be broken down into other substances first, but some quick research can clear this up. Nathan J. Yoder 09:39, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It's hard to make a case that cheese (or chocolate, for that matter) actually is psychoactive to a degree that could cause an opiate effect or addiction. I've seen the chocolate myth debunked elsewhere (I think McGee's On Food and Cooking explores it some, eventually concluding that people get addicted to chocolate because — ! — it tastes really good) but this is the first I've heard of it for cheese. Most sites making any sort of opiate claim are fringe anti-milk advocacy sites. This page  cites some scientific studies largely debunking casomorphin claims. Of course, nutritional science is a moving target, and it could turn out there are real effects from these chemicals, but until data to that effect makes it into some more mainstream sources, I don't believe the information is neccessarily appropriate in the article. —Bunchofgrapes  (talk) 19:48, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Addictive properties 

message: I've protected this article as it's on the main page today and has been getting lots of vandalism. I suggest that we unprotect it as soon as it's off the main page. --Gareth Hughes 12:59, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Page was unprotected by other admins. Rmhermen 14:35, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: As it shoulf be all the vandalism was getting sorted quickly and though it may look bad for highlighted page to be vandalised it also looks bad if highlighted page can't be edited.--JK the unwise 17:24, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page protection 

message: I googled for the exact de Gaulle quote on the Cheese and the French and found that the number of cheeses is quoted as being either 70,  246, 270, 300, 350, 365, 400 or 600. Our article says 300.
Does anyone knows which is the real figure? bogdan | Talk 15:27, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Great. Someone threw that quote (back) in during the day the article was on the front page, and it seemed to fit well enough there. But if the sources can't agree on the number, it's hard to be confident that the quote is legitimate at all. Researching... —Bunchofgrapes  (talk) 04:17, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, http://print.google.com is the best thing ever. Columbia Dictionary of Quotes says 246 and attributes it to a specific Newsweek article. I put in the footnote. —Bunchofgrapes  (talk) 04:51, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: In The Quote Verifier: Who Said What, Where, And When by Ralph Keyes, on page 82, it states that he said 265 in 1951.  --Bob 20:49, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  de Gaulle, cheese and the French 

message: Page should be considered locked for editing till it's off the front page as vandalims has got sky high on the page. Oyvind 17:41, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: See user:Raul654/protection, for policy reasons why this isn't done. —Bunchofgrapes  (talk) 18:09, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  November 4 - vandalism 

message: I don't think there is an appropriate place for it in the main article (others may disagree), but is it worth mentioning things like the Wallace and Gromit films, where the main characters have a fondness for cheese? (I specifically picked these characters because the first film helped resurrect the only dairy in Wensleydale making the cheese bearing the same name, and the recent feature film seems to be doing the same thing for Stinking Bishop. 
::What a great article. I would love to work something in, if it could be made non-gratuitous. A whole "Cheese is pop culture" section has always seemed like a bad idea to me, basically a trivia-magnet. Maybe a paragraph under "Cultural attitudes" could talk about some cultures where cheese is popular, and work it in... Hmm... —Bunchofgrapes  (talk) 04:13, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cheese related media 

message: The Wikipedia manual of style allows either form; it's supposed to be consistent within an article, and you aren't supposed to change them once they are there. I was the first to introduce any dates to this article, as far as I know. I've always gone for BCE/CE, but I see I missed one earlier (now fixed). Please leave it in BCE/CE form. Thanks. —Bunchofgrapes  (talk) 21:11, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  BC/AD vs BCE/CE 

message: I've introduced a new template (Template:Cheese) to use in individual cheese articles. It is imported from the French wiki. An example of its use can be found at Gouda or Munster cheese. Could this type of thing be extended to all cheese type articles? --Bob 23:48, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Template:Cheese

message: Does the properties of the milk fats in human milk allow the fermentation of cheese?
:I haven't found anything conclusive answering one way or another. According to this Savage Love column, Dale Baumgartner, head cheese maker at the Tillamook Creamery in Oregon, says "The department of health might have something to say about that. [...] You could probably do it, I don't see why not--provided you could get your hands on the milk."
:The use of human milk in culinary applications is taboo or at least very rare almost universally, it seems like. Although there was a Chinese Restaurant in southern Hunan serving a couple of breast-milk dishes in 2003 . —Bunchofgrapes  (talk) 20:28, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would say that a specialty cheese like that could make a new standard in rare or immpossible to find, thus making it a luxury.Akupta321 03:07, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: One man's luxury is another man's OMGYUKWTF. :) --Syrthiss 13:39, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Human Cheese 

message: I just removed "Cheese is also sometimes used as a slang term for gossip, deriving from the Spanish word "chisme", meaning "gossip" from the article; I'm not sure when that got in there. There's no question chisme is Spanish for "gossip", but I'm not finding any good sources stating that "cheese" is used in that manner,  nor that it was corrupted from chisme. —Bunchofgrapes  (talk) 20:36, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cheese / Chisme/ Gossip 

message: Something that's been bothering me for a short time: is there anything on the web about cheese made from human milk, and is it worth mentioning in the article? I read on the Half-Bakery that there was such a link, but the author of the comment was unable to find it. ThomasWinwood 05:12, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Look above to the sub-section headed Human cheese. There is a link and discussion there. --Bob 21:08, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Bread, butter and green cheese is good English and good Friese." 

message: Cheese is being listed as a candidate in Portal:India/Selected article removal candidates. Sorry guys from other countries, it was probably a mistake to have included the article in Portal:India/Selected articles, as it is not related to India. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 10:30, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I had been wondering about that. —Bunchofgrapes  (talk) 14:33, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Removal candidate from India selected articles

message: What wine goes with Government cheese?  Are their varieties of Government cheese?
:The government cheese I recall was a big block of American and thus lacked the only redeeming quality American cheese has: its individually-wrapped preslicedness and the smooth and shiny texture imparted by the plastic. They don't have government wine, of course, just government whine. —Bunchofgrapes  (talk) 02:57, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Government cheese?

message: This is a fine compromise. I had thought about doing this myself since cows obviously are the trademark bearers of milk, but I was reluctant not to mess around with the content. Good job. :) —Eternal Equinox | talk 14:16, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Alphabetical order

message: During a trip to Frankenmuth, Michigan I came across Chocolate Mint cheese. Looking on this wiki article I don't see anything about something like this, or how unusual it is, though when doing a google search on 'chocolate flavored cheese' over 6 million results are displayed. I'm not sure if this should be included into the cheese article, or if it even merits it, but I personally would be interested in learning more about it. From what I understand there are a lot of 'unusual' flavors out there so maybe a small section for those would be appropriate perhaps for those of you who have more information on this kind of thing than I do. --ImmortalGoddezz 03:52, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Quick note (not to say there might not be something to it) -- Googling for 'chocolate flavored cheese' without double-quotes around the phrase returns all the pages that have those three words anywhere in the page. The vast majority of which aren't about chocolate-flavored cheese. Googling for "chocolate flavored cheese" return 332 hits, 24 of which are unique. —Bunchofgrapes  (talk) 03:57, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually you're right and that's an error on my part as I am lazy in googling in most cases. But while googling "chocolate cheese" you come up with 172,000 hits for it. I suppose there are a lot of phrases you can use to get the same results, or thereabouts, but I've noticed that quite a few of the  links that I've investigated like this. It mentions chocolate cheese capturing '10 percent of the cheese market in Taiwan within 6 months of its release.' which to me seems mildly notable (though I could definitely be wrong since I don't know much about cheese or its markets). I just brought this up because I'm interested in it and would like to learn more. :) --ImmortalGoddezz 05:20, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That linked article is almost certainly enough to justify starting a chocolate cheese article, or similar. Probably not enough to merit a specific mention on this overview page, though, hard to say... there are a lot of flavored cheeses in the world ([Prästost] is often cured in whisky for example) and they can't all be mentioned. —Bunchofgrapes  (talk) 14:59, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chocolate cheese? 

message: What is the use of the Cheeze redirect? I thought we weren't supposed to have redirects from misspellings. Is cheeze some British variant or some nonsense?--Josh Rocchio 15:48, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe we should redirect it to Cheez Whiz instead? Redirects are cheap and we don't tend to worry too much about excessive or borderline questionable ones. —Bunchofgrapes  (talk) 15:57, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Or Velveeta =]? Cheeze whiz seems more appropriate.--Josh Rocchio 04:22, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cheeze redirect 

message: Why is there no mention of Casu marzu cheese? For those that don't know what it is, it is a form of Pecorino Sardo filled with maggots. By the way, those thinking of commenting it's fictional nature should save time and not do it because it is in-fact real. - 02:32, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Casu marzu is certainly real. Having written most of the cheese article and most of the Casu marzu article myself, it was my judgement that there was no benefit (outside possible shock value) to linking to such a little-known (on a global scale) cheese from this overview article. Filling the article with mentions of "interesting" rather than representative cheeses would turn it into a list of trivia. —Bunchofgrapes  (talk) 19:43, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Casu marzu 

message: The categorization of cheese in the article seems to me right now very limited, and parochial (as it just sticks to the common american categorization of cheese). I just tried to point out the main principles of classification that are used, alone or mixed, in the world, to categorize cheese. The French one, for instance, is complex and is a mix of three of these basic types   (official web site of french milk producers union) : 1) soft dough with washed rind (Munster, e.g); 2) soft dough with mold rind (camembert, for instance); 3) pressed and unheated dough (Cheddar, Cantal); 4) pressed and heated dough (Emmental, Beaufort,what is called in the US "swiss like" cheeses), 5) mold dough (pâte persillée) (Roquefort, "blue" cheeses); 6) fresh cheese; 7) goat's milk cheese and 8) processed cheese. This classification is close to official. What is more, 3) and 4) kind of cheese are commonly classified according to their affinage (old Cantal vs young Cantal). A classification of this kind is sometimes used in Italy . I find this categorization extremely accurate, as it is based mainly on the basic methods of cheese making. But I'm certainly biased ! 
The categorization that I proposed tries not to be parochial, and to sum up this great diversity of classifications. It really goes to the basic principles of the categorizations used. You can find it on these (italian) sites , .Gedefr 20:21, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My edit was really just a copyedit of yours -- spelling, grammar, syntax -- and fiddling with the headers, which don't make sense they way you have them right now. I am at a loss as to why you reverted it. Other than the headers, I tried not to change what you were saying at all. Did I fail? I have no opinion as to how best to categorize cheeses; I don't think there is any one correct way, but I was trying to adhere to those commonly  seen in English-language sources. —Bunchofgrapes  (talk) 22:16, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

text: when squirrels attack 69.246.70.243 00:21, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Categorization

message: France exported $2,658,441 of cheese in 2004? Im not a cheese expert, nor do I care to be, but I know that that figure is wrong. Surely it must be in 000's of $, not $.
:So you contend that France exported 2 billion dollars in cheese instead of 2 million?  And why don't you want to be a cheese expert?  Are you some kind of Cheese-ist? Syrthiss 11:49, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Export table values 

message: Why in the world is this article locked against changes by the newbies (I am not one, if it matters).  I mean, locks are usually placed on articles succeptable to vandalism and extreme points of view like abortion and race.  Is there a secret group of cheese-haters out there somewhere?  If so, I've never met any. (Yumm!) Sys Hax 09:05, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Cheese is apparently as inherently funny a word or concept as duck, banana, or kumquat.  If you don't believe me, scroll down to the discussion of celebrity cheesemakers -- and try to keep a straight face.  --205.201.141.146 20:45, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: It is weird that this article has no mention of Protected designation of origin (PDO/POD), protected geographical indication (PGI) and Traditional Speciality Guaranteed (TSG).  I can't add such because the article is locked. 69.87.199.176 00:40, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, you raise a valid point. Unfortunately, I don't have the necessary expertise to add such information to the article. May I suggest that you register a Wikipedia account and edit the article when your account gets to 4 days old? Mouse Nightshirt 13:57, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Protected designation of origin

message: Please change the first sentence from
:Cheese is a solid food made from the milk of cows, goats, sheep, and other mammals.
::::to
:Cheese is a solid food made from the milk of cows, goats, sheep, water buffalo, and other mammals.
Water buffalo are important to the history of cheese and current production; authentic mozzarella is still made from their milk in Italy. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.87.194.147 (talk) 15:30, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Water buffalo

message: The article seems to use some cheese tasting terms, but not discuss the subject as such.  It might be good to at least offer a good link to somewhere for to learn about the terms used to discuss cheese tasting? 69.87.204.169 02:43, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Cheese tasting terms?

message: "It should also perhaps be noted that under certain scientifically controlled dietery studies, people whose diets which particularly consisted of the high intake of dairy foods had shown that obesity had prevailed at a higher rate than of those persons whose diets consisted of only vegetable based fats." This sentence has a spelling mistake, and needs to be re-written in plainer English. 69.87.204.169 02:43, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: These vaguely referenced "studies" should also be cited or perhaps removed altogether.  This phrase was added Nov 19 2006 around 06:26 by Lode. Sbonds 07:25, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: dietery

message: I have now twice reverted the addition of a section called "Celebrity cheesemakers", which states that "Blur bassist Alex James has recently confirmed [8] that he has been focusing on cheese making ahead of a possible band reunion." I do not believe this nugget of trivia rises anywhere near the level of wanting to be included in this article. Thoughts? —Bunchofgrapes  (talk) 16:02, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Celebrity Cheesemakers