Talk:Anti-Polish sentiment/Archive 5

message: "It is often associated with a Polish "black legend" and a belief that almost any evil or folly may be laid at the doorstep of the Poles"
:Sounds pretty much vague in my opinion. "Often"? Where does the statement come from?NightBeAsT 12:53, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Often associated with the black legend (and sth like that)?

message: I've asked for protection of this page because for the last few days it has been constantly vandalised and revert wars started. However, I am still for improvement of this page. I would only ask for discussing all the changes here before we decide to make them in the article. I think that we've seen already what happens if there is no previous agreement reached here. I truly appreciate your engagement in improving this article and I am sure that we can reach effects satisfactory for all sides if only we use our energy for looking for sources instead of watching this page for reverts. As Nightbeast was kind to point out disputed sentences in the article, I would like to ask everyone to address them first. I would also like to remind that there is no policy, which says that Polish sources are worse than any others or are unsufficient. Also, please, since there seem to be so many German editors here, bring your sources as well. NPOV is easiest to reach by providing various points of view. --SylwiaS 02:26, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: What is meant by private time? After and before work? Or just in the breaks during the work? Is only Polish forbidden, or can it also be every language that the employer cannot speak? If he doesn't allow any language that he cannot understand, why should it be anti-polonistic? Many people cannot stand it when others speak in their presence in a language they cannot understand. It excludes them. And anyway, what makes the employer anti-polonistic? He gave Poles a job in a time of great unemployment in Germany. Is that a sign of an "irrational or malicious hostility toward Poles"? Calling him anti-polonistic seems to me to be probably too far-fetched. How old is the story and has the clinic confirmed the accusations? NightBeAsT 01:29, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protection 

message: This is a very good solution, indeed. I would like to kindly ask all the people here to consider and discuss my proposition here to reorganise the beginning of the article. Alx-pl 06:40, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think there's much to object to it except for the tag, which should be  instead of  as the neutrality is currently not disputed, only more than four "facts". Concealing those "facts" are disputed is avoidance vandalism. Anyone who disagrees for constructive reasons that Alx-pl's version with a changed tag should not be swapped with the current one?NightBeAsT 16:23, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

text: True, not all are disputed: the remaining "facts" put under the headline 'Disputed' are so false that no-one could ever make an attempt at verifying any. So you could be happy that they're just *disputed* because they will be deleted once the article's protection expires and they're still not verified.NightBeAsT 21:57, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Swap of version during the protection 

message: (This section is not connected to the article. NightBeAsT)
Lithuania destroyed USSR, will destroy and Russia and Poland. Both Russia and Poland are Slaves' countries parasiting in 100% at the lands of other nations. Both Poland and Russia will crumble. Pomerania and Silesia will go to Germany, all Baltic Prussia untill Vistula river - to Lithuania. All Slaves will be out. Flying Kvaker 16:31, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting quote by Flying Kvaker aka Zivinbudas: Very short and very clear: Slaves - to gas chambers.  --Witkacy 21:41, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: No need to react, Micha. This person was already reported as a possible sockpuppet of Zivinbudas to the admins (after all Zivinbudas was the only person I know to believe Lithuania stretches from Vistula to Saint Petersburg and that Slavs are slaves... If it was the first time such remarks are repeated out of the blue, I would probably be upset somehow. However, with time you get used to Zivinbudas. Humans can get used to almost anything... Halibutt 17:50, August 16, 2005 (UTC)
I’m a little bit scared now, but if its true: I hope we will life in peace and good friendship with our new neighbour Lithuania! But please don’t expand your superb empire to the river Rhein, cause I can tell you: the French are bad neighbours, the worst we have, and I’m really scared by the tremendous power of your large Lithuanian army. If you decide different: Hail to the new Lithuanian empire, and greetings from your colony Germania inferior!
If they dont want, we will serve you as slaves! In fact: I cant wait to begin my work for you Flying Toaster!
The Lithuanians have a Toaster that can fly? Whow! Now we all are really scared of! :-) At this point I agree with Halibutt! We have to take this guy with humor. Micha.
" If you are looking for Anti-Polish racists - check this talk page" lets wait for the next one :)--Witkacy 21:38, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Poland will crumble 

message: (This section is not connected to the article. NightBeAsT)
Dear Molobo, I have to apologize to you at all! I’ve got you wrong, cause now it turns out that you are a humanist and a fair men in any case and under any circumstances. I was just at your private side where you showed your neutral point of view and your warm heart. Nothing shows id better then this sentence from you: “Neither Dresden nor Hiroshima and Nagasaki were crimes” So when killing 500.000 helpless civilians isn’t a crime what are we talking about here? Values? Or maybe Polish racist nationalism combined with a deep lack of honesty. And the best thing: he is studying journalism! That’s why he is so careful about the truth of his sources. So you are the best guaranty for the next generation of Poles to grow up miss educated by the medias and full of hate as you obviously are. This was not (only) to blame you but also for the others here, that they can know about you and your intentions. With deepest respect for your Christianity and your friendly soul, Volker
Oh getting out of arguments and trying to use personal attacks.Whatever.Let's look at what actuall was written :"
::It's not at all relevant to Rommel (like most of this discussion page), but I'd dispute your assertation that the bombing of Dresden or Hiroshima and Nagasaki were war-crimes. Leithp 15:57, August 10, 2005 (UTC)
+	
+	Neither Dresden nor Hiroshima and Nagasaki were crimes.Katyn was genocide but not comparable to Nazi war crimes"
Which is true, since according to rules of war those cities were legitmate military targets(military presence, role, industry)--Molobo 22:29, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: (off-topic remark: No, a crime is also an act that you personally consider to be immoral even if it may conform to the rules. And you know, some consider it immoral to almost exclusively go for the civilian population in a war, as they did in Dresden, Hiroshima and Nagasaki.)
"and full of hate as you obviously are."
Another attempt of personal attack.Common actually, in attempts to claim that people documenting Nazi war crimes or persecution made by German state are filled with "hate".However this is rather biased, I don't hate nobody, nor do I hate Germany or German people(for example the current Pope, or Germans spying for Allies during the war are admirable people).
"With deepest respect for your Christianity and your friendly soul"
Oh, I'm an atheist. Don't believe in soul.--Molobo 22:29, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Hej Micha, can you bring some source on the reaction of German bishops on the Polish we forgive and ask...? As I mentioned before, it could improve the Polish-German friendship section. Alx-pl 23:13, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It would be also nice to have something on the impact of what the cancelor Brandt did. This, as the forgivness case, may enrich the friendship section. I did not mention these facts in the section although they were present in my source (see the history description) only because it is impossible to make them to be to the point without a point of view from the German side. And my German is too weak to effectively search the German Internet for such complicated issues. Alx-pl 23:25, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sorry Molobo! 

message: Molobo, I agree with you (my grandfather had already fought on New Guinea - where he almost died - and Luzon.  He would have been involved in an amphibious assault on the home islands of Japan, and I probably wouldn't be here.  But these discussions belong on the Dresden and Hiroshima talk pages, not here. --Jpbrenna 04:41, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: So true. I am going to delete the entire section in a few hours anyway. But, of course, if you like you can continue to bombard each other on your talk pages. Instead, I would rather you made an attempt to verify your claims, molobo. That would be on-topic. NightBeAsT 05:09, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  We are straying off-topic 

message: Koch, Angela, Ph.D. Student
Institut für Kunst- und Kulturwissenschaften, Humboldt-Universität zu Berlin, Germany
    * The Relationship of Antipolonism and Sexism in German History (1870-1933/45)
Should be added to article
--Molobo 01:25, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: How about you post a link here?NightBeAsT 11:57, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: A title says nothing. When Michael Moore published a book reading "Dude, where's my country?" does it mean the US has gone missing?NightBeAsT 13:58, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Interesting source on traditional German antipolonism