Talk:First Balkan War

message: (t · c) buidhe 15:07, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: The above is very vague.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.77.163.188 (talk) 15:16, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Interesting and relevant information 

message: Please make the page more natural every ruler can be tyrannical or paranoid depending on who you ask. 37.231.254.79 (talk) 17:43, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Under the tyrannical and paranoid regime of Sultan Abdul Hamid II" 

message: The section 'Serbian atrocities against Albanians' deals with atrocities that occurred in a tiny part of the Balkan war theatre. This section also describes the events that happened in Albanian in a very detailed level even using primary reports directly such as 'newspaper x claimed y etc'. It obviously needs trimming, while information of atrocities that occurred in other parts of the Balkans needs to be added  instead to secure neutral coverage of atrocities happened during Balkan Wars.Alexikoua (talk) 01:12, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: The section can be improved, and merged into another section so it does not stay on its own. You can do that by proposing changes here. You can also add content on crimes against other ethnic groups. The whole removal of the section's content does not seem to be sth that can be justified. Ktrimi991 (talk) 17:42, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: It is justified, I was elaborated clearly in this thread, which you blatantly ignored or didn't even bother to comprehend, you literally did not provide any arguments to counter that, especially since this section was added without any supervision and justification whatsoever. If you want to improve it and add it under some other section, feel free to do that, I am not going to. But do it in such way that it does justice to general contribution of the article, not project your view to the general public. Energykiller (talk) 17:53, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: A first step would be to trim this very selective information by 90% (most of it is based on primary -no scholarly- accounts anyway), and add data that's related to atrocities in the various battlegrounds of this war.Alexikoua (talk) 21:44, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you, finally someone reasonable. Let's do it Energykiller (talk) 08:50, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Those estimates aren't even accepted by the correspondent reference provided... claims by a local imam, a soldier's memoirs, an article by a contemporary newspaper. Some trimming is warranted in this case especially when those claims are not widely accepted. Alexikoua (talk) 04:51, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: That was my point as well. Can't really believe that other contributors allowed this section to stay on the wiki page without checking the sources first (I guess cause they are very biased). To make it even worse, lots of them are still trying to revert what you've trimmed down, even with the facts that we've pointed out in this talk thread. Energykiller (talk) 19:10, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

text: Please read Christopher Clark's "The Sleepwalkers" (according to the Washington Post "a work of rare beauty"). On page 44 he describes the horrific atrocities the Serbians committed in Macedonia in 1913. I tried to edit the article and cited Clark, but my changes were removed immediately. Obviously, such information is not welcome here. XeniaBW (talk) 16:33, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

text: By the way all estimates on atrocities should be transferred to the Balkan Wars article since the Serbian occupation in parts of Albania wasn't limited to the 1st Balkan War (sources also don't limit the numbers to 1st BW).Alexikoua (talk) 03:10, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: They were also not limited to the Balkan Wars but that does not mean they should be hidden from the public. They concern the 1st Balkan War so they stay. Çerçok (talk) 09:26, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you realize you re-added the same material twice? Khirurg (talk) 15:15, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

text: Per sources those numbers concern the 'Balkan War' and they are not representative as First Balkan War numbers (Serbian occupation continued to Second Balkan War). To be precise to present this information as First Balkan War is wrong and therefore needs to be removed and placed to the appropriate  article.Alexikoua (talk) 04:38, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: By the way I just noticed that there is no information about massacres perpetrated by Albanian units during this War. We need to secure a neutral description on the events.Alexikoua (talk) 04:52, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

text: Which includes the 1st Balkan War, so no, these massacres will not be covered up. Çerçok (talk) 09:18, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Which includes both Balkan Wars and this means that those numbers do not reflect this war i.e. not representative since part of the number concern another war . It's like adding WWII death toll figures on articles about the first half of the war. That's childish in general.Alexikoua (talk) 05:11, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: @SamuelLion1877 is still adding figures that concern the wider period of 1912-1914. There is an article titled Balkan Wars and I was kind enough to initiate a discussion there about this addition. Further revert warring accompanied with aggressive edit summaries will be reported. SamuelLion1877 also keeps falsifying Kinley in this edit [] which clearly falls into wp:disruption. Alexikoua (talk) 02:25, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Why'd you keep the 100k figure and remove the 120k figure if they both refer to the same time range? I will re-add the figure, giving context that it includes the Second Balkan War, since it is completely relevant but will be presented differently. PS: I minimized the information since it will be abstracted in more detail to the appropriate article. Yung Doohickey (talk) 06:17, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: It's ok we can remove all figures that concern a much wider time line. But in case you insist to add Albanian casualties, we should also add non-Albanian casualties as well. Alexikoua (talk) 23:09, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Undue weight 

message: I've been asked to open a talk thread first, before removing anything related to this section, yet I don't see one when this section was added? This section contributes nothing to the page, sources are extremely biased and not confirmed to be historically accurate. The section was clearly added in order to disrepute Serbian nation and ethnicity, and create prejudice toward Serbs. Most of the sources are coming from foreign press (at the time) without much evidence, and writers with biased point of view. There was no organisation at the time, to determine and investigate such things. This section all together should be excluded from this wiki page, if it's going to cover alleged war crimes committed by a specific nation, and not objectively cover all of them across the Balkans during the war. Energykiller (talk) 10:23, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: The section can be improved, and merged into another section so it does not stay on its own. You can do that by proposing changes here. You can also add content on crimes against other ethnic groups. The whole removal of the section's content does not seem to be sth that can be justified. Ktrimi991 (talk) 17:42, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: It is justified, I was elaborated clearly in this thread, which you blatantly ignored or didn't even bother to comprehend, you literally did not provide any arguments to counter that, especially since this section was added without any supervision and justification whatsoever. If you want to improve it and add it under some other section, feel free to do that, I am not going to. But do it in such way that it does justice to general contribution of the article, not project your view to the general public. Energykiller (talk) 17:53, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: A first step would be to trim this very selective information by 90% (most of it is based on primary -no scholarly- accounts anyway), and add data that's related to atrocities in the various battlegrounds of this war.Alexikoua (talk) 21:44, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you, finally someone reasonable. Let's do it Energykiller (talk) 08:50, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Those estimates aren't even accepted by the correspondent reference provided... claims by a local imam, a soldier's memoirs, an article by a contemporary newspaper. Some trimming is warranted in this case especially when those claims are not widely accepted. Alexikoua (talk) 04:51, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: That was my point as well. Can't really believe that other contributors allowed this section to stay on the wiki page without checking the sources first (I guess cause they are very biased). To make it even worse, lots of them are still trying to revert what you've trimmed down, even with the facts that we've pointed out in this talk thread. Energykiller (talk) 19:10, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

text: Please read Christopher Clark's "The Sleepwalkers" (according to the Washington Post "a work of rare beauty"). On page 44 he describes the horrific atrocities the Serbians committed in Macedonia in 1913. I tried to edit the article and cited Clark, but my changes were removed immediately. Obviously, such information is not welcome here. XeniaBW (talk) 16:33, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

text: By the way all estimates on atrocities should be transferred to the Balkan Wars article since the Serbian occupation in parts of Albania wasn't limited to the 1st Balkan War (sources also don't limit the numbers to 1st BW).Alexikoua (talk) 03:10, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: They were also not limited to the Balkan Wars but that does not mean they should be hidden from the public. They concern the 1st Balkan War so they stay. Çerçok (talk) 09:26, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you realize you re-added the same material twice? Khirurg (talk) 15:15, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

text: Per sources those numbers concern the 'Balkan War' and they are not representative as First Balkan War numbers (Serbian occupation continued to Second Balkan War). To be precise to present this information as First Balkan War is wrong and therefore needs to be removed and placed to the appropriate  article.Alexikoua (talk) 04:38, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: By the way I just noticed that there is no information about massacres perpetrated by Albanian units during this War. We need to secure a neutral description on the events.Alexikoua (talk) 04:52, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

text: Which includes the 1st Balkan War, so no, these massacres will not be covered up. Çerçok (talk) 09:18, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Which includes both Balkan Wars and this means that those numbers do not reflect this war i.e. not representative since part of the number concern another war . It's like adding WWII death toll figures on articles about the first half of the war. That's childish in general.Alexikoua (talk) 05:11, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: @SamuelLion1877 is still adding figures that concern the wider period of 1912-1914. There is an article titled Balkan Wars and I was kind enough to initiate a discussion there about this addition. Further revert warring accompanied with aggressive edit summaries will be reported. SamuelLion1877 also keeps falsifying Kinley in this edit [] which clearly falls into wp:disruption. Alexikoua (talk) 02:25, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Why'd you keep the 100k figure and remove the 120k figure if they both refer to the same time range? I will re-add the figure, giving context that it includes the Second Balkan War, since it is completely relevant but will be presented differently. PS: I minimized the information since it will be abstracted in more detail to the appropriate article. Yung Doohickey (talk) 06:17, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: It's ok we can remove all figures that concern a much wider time line. But in case you insist to add Albanian casualties, we should also add non-Albanian casualties as well. Alexikoua (talk) 23:09, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Serbian atrocities against Albanians 

message: maybe I used the wrong keyboard but this info from the article on air bombardment is absent from this article about the war.
" In the First Balkan War (1912) the Bulgarian Air Force bombed Turkish positions at Adrianople, while the Greek Aviation performed, over the Dardanelles, the first naval/air co-operation mission in history.[20]"
100.15.117.34 (talk) 19:10, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  incomplete 

message: I have done my best to try and reach a consensus, but to no avail. Still waiting for them to attempt further dialogue here SamuelLion1877 (talk) 05:14, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: What do you mean, can you please elaborate? Also by placing such heading you cross wp:NPA. That's not cool. Friendly advice: Comment on content, not on the contributor. Alexikoua (talk) 04:39, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: How is this a personal attack, Alex? You should avoid misusing policies when conversing with newer editors. If anything, it seems the user above unsuccessfully tried to @ Khirurg. Botushali (talk) 06:14, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  User Khirurg 

message: We need to have women who helped or supported section not just “men” as their “strength” 35.128.60.43 (talk) 14:14, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rewriting history 

message: सम्मेलन 2409:40E5:1010:5BE1:8000:0:0:0 (talk) 05:17, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  सम्मेलन कब और कहां