Talk:Kamianets-Podilskyi

message: *Depends on the transcryption system you use. For me the Ukrainian "я" sounds pretty much like English "ya", but others indeed prefer the "ia" version. Halibutt 09:44, Jan 23, 2005 (UTC)
:*Updating links to actual Ukrainian names and minor edit. History-stub is supposed to develop the 20th century history of the city.
:*BTW, co-operative and competent Polish Wikipedians are invited to discuss the problem of the common Ukrainian-Polish geographical/historical names. Since it's an English encyclopedia (not Polish or Ukrainian) I think making a consensus pattern for naming is the ultimate way. Feel free to answer in my talk page. Best wishes, AlexPU
*I'm updating the naming in the article.  In the intro, I include the full National transliteration of the Ukrainian name, as well as a "conventional" phonetic rendering.  In the body of the article I used the simplified National transliteration, since the full version is quite busy-looking, typographically.  See Romanization of Ukrainian for details.  What do you think of this?
:Technically, there's nothing keeping the article from being moved to Kam"ianets'-Podil's'kyi or Kamianets-Podilskyi.  Should we stick to the formal National transliteration here?  Should we consider using the simplified version for article headings?   —Michael Z. 2005-03-2 16:53 Z
*Instead Kamianets-Podilskyi map shows Kam'yanets'-Podil's'kyi.
:May be better if somebody rename the article to Kam'yanets'-Podil's'kyi? --80.93.124.87 (talk) 05:25, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Shouldn't this be '''Kamianets''' and not '''Kamyaniets'''?

message: :I don't know why Ghirlandajo removed the Polish name from the header, since he failed to explain his edits. As I said, I won't quarrel about it, but a name that is still quite popular in English deserves a mention IMO. Therefore I kindly ask Girlandajo to reconsider. 
:Also, his argument about the town being Russian for more than a century after the Poles had been expelled home is completely false, as the local Poles were expelled in two major waves: between 1921 and 1925 and then the rest in 1934-37. So, the Russian century ended up pretty quickly. I even know a girl whose grandparents were one of the last families to be resettled to Kazakhstan (she herself was born in Kiev, BTW). Halibutt 23:54, August 21, 2005 (UTC)
This article is one of the few with a separate etymology paragraph about the name and names. Few articles have this luxury, unfortunately. Polish, as well as any other name belongs there, and this will be restored. 
Witkacy, I haven't seen you done anything for any article on my watch list but adding or moving names around. While, there is no policy prohibiting you from doing that, I urge you to do something really useful for the article's content if the topics are so important to you that you bother not just to add a Polish name but even switch it with the Russian one in the order of listing. Please see my note at Polish Wikipedians' notice board. --Irpen 01:23, August 22, 2005 (UTC)
Halibutt, I would not have made an "expelled home" remark myself, irrelevant of who and when did what to who. But as for the specific edit by Girlandajo, he did not remove the PL name, but moved it to the next paragraph devoted specifically to the names and etymology. And his edit, unlike Witkacy's (who just keeps moving names around), made a real factual correction to the article (about the word kamen). That's exactly my point. Why some editors not do something real (even if small) for an article they care so much, that they even switch the order of names' listing? Please take a look, my proposal is not about just names, but it is a call to the users to take a burden to do something for the articles rather than add/remove/switch the names. I don't follow what happends with PL/DE names fights, but I haven't seen, say, Russian editors doing this to the articles about Polish cities. 
I see that Witkacy again moved the Polish name inside the article just now. Fine, I will not revert for now, but I would really appreciate more constructive edits from editors who care beyond how many words it takes for their favorite name to get mentioned.  --Irpen 03:29, August 22, 2005 (UTC)
:No problem, I guess the expelled home remark was done out of ignorance and not out of bad will (unless of course someone claims that the home of Poles is Siberia, Kazakhstan or Vorkuta). As to the positive contributions - I'm afraid I can't add more to the article. I started it a long time ago and sadly I can't add much more. Perhaps one of the descriptions from Sienkiewicz could be posted on one of the sister projects, but I don't have the English translation. Any ideas on what might be added? Also, wouldn't it be fair to move all names but the Ukrainian to the ethymological part? 
Halibutt 06:44, August 22, 2005 (UTC)
Halibutt: Yes, that would not just be "fair" but it is a simple common sense. We have a name/etymology section and all names naturally belong there. And Ukrainian name would belong there too, should alternative spelling was more common in modern English L media and the article had a name different from a Ukrainian name (like Kiev or Odessa). I tried adding all names to etymological part and other editors tried it too. But Witkacy's attitude seems to treat all such edits by non-Poles as expression of anti-Polonism, revert them on sight and ignore talk. To make his argument stronger, he runs around with his black book slamming anyone he chooses with or without any reason. Therefore, I am afraid that my following your advise would be useless. Witkacy, will make sure it is reverted. That's why I am crying out loud to Polish editors to express their opinions on the issue and edit the article. If Poles would also say that all names belong to etymology, I hope the silly games would not persist. 
And also, you're of course right that "the arguments of whose town was it and for how long is irrelevant". Separate naming paragraph is a logical and simple solution. I repeat, that I would like Polish editors too to express what they think here or by editing the article. Thanks, --Irpen 14:53, August 22, 2005 (UTC)
:Concur.  Let's do this with all geographical places ("Gdańsk" included).  logologist 15:28, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: games with names (continued)

message: Do we really need the  templat? As I see it it is ugly and takes up a whole lot of space, which can be used for historic photographs instead. I think that it is better to have the history in text not in timeline form.. —dima/talk/ 16:11, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have removed it, but if anyone wants it back, feel free to add it.. —dima/talk/ 18:32, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have resored the timeline. Slightly reduced and moved left. I think it's a good illustration of the town's history, adding the useful perspective. --Lysytalk 11:46, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The way I see it in my browser, it only scrunches the text into a "narrow corridor.." All of this info can be found in the text.. I would like more if we can remove the large gaps of space between years 1062 1241 1352 and 1671.. Is there a way to do that? —dima/talk/ 17:32, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Template:History of Kamianets]] 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20051106072040/http://www.zn.kiev.ua/ie/show/399/35210/ to http://www.zn.kiev.ua/ie/show/399/35210/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050904191638/http://www.zerkalo-nedeli.com/nn/show/399/35210/ to http://www.zerkalo-nedeli.com/nn/show/399/35210/
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Please clarify "to defend Poland from the southwest".  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.57.183.89 (talk) 21:53, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  To defend Poland from the southwest