Talk:Aristocracy

message: The earliest uses of aristocrat and aristocracy should sort this out. It's actually a very recent bowdlerization of "heirocrat," meaning "hereditary rulership." It's a deliberate bowdlerization arising from the negative connotations of "heirocrat," for example"heirophant." -Tpol  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1:9A5A:9D75:630A:A65E:2FCC:66A9 (talk) 02:39, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  False etymology, actual is from heiro- 

message: Allow me to quote "Democracy and aristocracy are incompatible as forms of government due to the hereditary nature of power in an aristocratic system". This seems rather odd given that in the United Kingdom Peers still inherit the right to a seat in parliament ultimately making the UK a democracy, aristocracy and monarchy! Any comments welcome, I just thought Id bring it up. --Camaeron 17:45, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's only a contradiction if you think the UK is a democracy :) I don't know what the system of government in the uk should be called really, but I would say the contradiction was in the government of the uk.
Some Sort Of Anarchist Nutter 23:02, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Except I think now only 78/c.1200 seats in the upper house are hereditary, taking the UK well below the US in terms of hereditary participation in Parliament/Congress. Johnbod 00:53, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Personally I dont think a democracy can ever work under human rule I just thought Id bring up the point. If the UK had to be one of three Id say that'd be monarchy.
And by the way Johnbod aristocracy neednt be hereditry. Not nowadays anyway. The Queen appoints many "newbie aristocrats" to sit in parliament. --Camaeron 15:16, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Boy, you really don't know much about the UK! Johnbod 15:53, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

text: I should do, I am a subject of Her Majesty. I really didnt mean to offend incase it came accross rudely. On what do you ground your accusation? --Camaeron 17:26, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In what sense are Life peers appointed by the Government "newbie aristocrats"? Are life-members of other upper-houses in Ireland etc aristoctrats?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Johnbod (talk • contribs) 22:01, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

text: What youre saying amounts to this: "Life Peers are not aristocrats". Am I correct in thinking that is your opinion? If so I must disagree. All Peers are aristocrats but not all aristocrats are peers. Naturally Irelands Upper House members arent aristocrats. The British sense of Aristocracy differs from the international one. Aristocrats in Britain are members of the Peerage, Gentry, Nobilty or people of noble backgrounds. --Camaeron 11:32, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly, whilst Life peers are only coincidentally these, and are politicians, businessmen, trade union leaders, minority "community leaders" & so on. Johnbod 14:00, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradiction 

message: There is alot of nonsense about the Greek aristocracy. About them leading their swords into battle... Nonsense! Aristo - crati means "rule of the best". The Greek nobility regarded itsself supperior towards the "normal" folk. Can someone please edit this??? --83.84.138.101 (talk) 19:37, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Greek Aristocracy 

message: Am I the only one who thinks this is not NPOV. The writers seem to be anti aristocracy. Stephen W. Houghton II 96.26.177.229 (talk) 02:34, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: POV

message: Surely there are other forms of government to be considered for comparison to aristocracy. A republic (rule by elected leaders) comes readily to mind.
131.81.200.92 (talk) 18:37, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comparisons... 

message: I'm not sure how to note this, but many Popes have been noted Aristocrats. Leo XIII was a noted Count at the end of the 19th Century. There were many Aristocratic families that gave Popes to the Church. Also, in other religions and nations, such as Egypt and Iran, many religious leaders are of Aristocratic origin. ADM (talk) 08:55, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: In what you say there is something right and something wrong. No Pope is precisely an aristocrat since he is as (vicariously) monarchical as you can wish for any (vicarious) monarch. The very clergy however is an aristocracy, namely the aristocracy of the Church ("bishop, clergy and people" runs the saying). That an at least notable number of high clerics comes from the (even the royal) aristocracy of Christian world, and respectively in other religions, is worth mentioning is well but not by "the Pope is an Aristocrat" since he is more. --93.133.226.70 (talk) 11:27, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Aristocracy and Theocracy

message: Aristocrasy is one where the aristocrats rule, who are the nobility, leaders in a long tradition. It is mostly associated with nobility, viscounts, counts, duke, nobles, sirs, madams. It is not democracy and in modern democratic institutions there are no aristocrats. It is an archaic term. It is not democracy and meritocracy. Aristocracy is where the "aristocrats" rule, or the people above the common people. It is a form of monarchism. The article has it all wrong. 67.177.203.207 (talk) 10:01, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Aristocracy

message: Too very different concepts, why propose this? -- Secondat of Orange (talk) 05:31, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: As no reasoning for the merge was posted on this talk page nor Talk:Noocracy, I'll remove the merge tags. --Inops (talk) 14:02, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

text: Absolutely concur: there should be two distinct articles, the "aristocracy" concept is born in ancient Greece, while the "aristocratic class" is a term that appeared way later in the middle ages, and the two concepts are very different in their meaning. Gyll (talk) 10:20, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Noocracy ->> Aristocracy 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Aristocracy. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110629022358/http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/entry/50011987?single=1&query_type=word&queryword=aristocracy&first=1&max_to_show=10 to http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/entry/50011987?single=1&query_type=word&queryword=aristocracy&first=1&max_to_show=10
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Cheers. —cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 01:19, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: There is sometimes the case where there is a false dichotomy between two slightly different uses of a word, and the idea of doing two different articles is not a solution. -Inowen (talk) 04:26, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Its okay to have to articles if the two articles make it clear why there is a difference. I tried to start workin this differentiation into this article, but the existing text is quite confusing and repetitive that it is seldom clear which understanding of aristocracy is written about. Nsae Comp (talk) 21:52, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge with [[Aristocracy (class)]] - the term is sometimes used differently, but thats no reason to fork 

message: A commenter at Wiktionary pointed out that the LSJ translates ἀριστοκρατία as "rule of the best-born", which is different from the idea of "rule of the best." -Inowen (nlfte) 23:33, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Best born" 

message: The article states in every chapter the conceptual history from greek "rule by the best" to modern understanding as a class. This needs to be adressed. I attempted to structure it clearer and give the differnetiation with the social class aristocracy an extra chapter.
Maybe instead of "Concept" and "History" it could be merged as "Conceptual history", or as such as sub-chapter of "History", maybe with another first sub-chapter of "Instances outside of classical antiquity", or something like that. Nsae Comp (talk) 22:01, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Repetitive 

message: There is a disjuncture between these two sections. "Concept" discusses the origins of the word in Ancient Greece whereas "History" jumps forward to the modern conception. Parts of History would be better off under Concept. Discussion of Ancient Greek aristocracy in practice (currently absent from the article) should be added to History. 49.184.68.149 (talk) 18:35, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "concept" and "history" cover different material