Wikipedia talk:Hebrew

message: Hello, it appears that there have been two parallel attempts at establishing approaches to Hebrew transliteration, none of which have had complete input from all the various hebrew users, or those interested in Hebrew transliterations. I would recommend that additional input be obtained before any official policy is formed.  I would recommend that a uniform policy be reconsidered as there may be multiple needs. As but one example, would seem somewhat artificial to put the name of a Hassidic Rebbe in Tiberian Hebrew, or to use Modern Israeli Hebrew in the article title, since few knowledgable people would call the individual or refer to the subject-matter by such pronunciation. There are a number of angles here which need to be taken into account before any uniform opolicy is adopted, if a uniform policy should even be adopted.   --Shirahadasha 19:00, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "merely want to be able to search for a Jewish/Hebrew subject in an English-language encyclopedia and be able to find it" ... Seriously. --Haldrik 04:00, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Also, WP:Hebrew has ג׳=j and ז׳=zh, while Naming conventions has no provisions for these 2, but these 2 shouldn't be controversial--Jms2000 18:13, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger with [[Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Hebrew)]] 

message: Is totally ridicilous. I oppose this as much as I oppose Zionism, Reform or Christianity. It is totally ridiculous and will not ever receive my support. --Daniel575 | (talk) 22:53, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Besides your hatred for people who have different opinions than you, do you have any rational difficulties with the transcription? It seems you hate Israeli Hebrew because you hate the State of Israel. Your argument seems to be 'sinat khinam'. --Haldrik 03:58, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Also, see Niqqud and the other various relevant Wikipedia articles, which can be easily accesed at template:Hebrew alphabet. --Eliyak T·C 02:53, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

text: I appreciate the links. The work here is large and comprehensive, and I needed to present it in a coherent way, without disrupting the work that the others had done. Sometimes a fresh start can be helpful, and I suspect that may be the case here. --Haldrik 03:44, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Haldrik, I do not hate anybody except for heretics and idol worshippers. And yes, I very strongly dislike the Zionist language, which is a dirty perversion (more properly, a raped version) of loshon hakoidesh. Please quit your Zionist supremacist behavior and accept that there are also Ashkenazim who do not want their rabbonim to be renamed according to Zionist norms. --Daniel575 | (talk) 18:02, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm glad for your response. "I do not hate anybody except for heretics and idol worshippers". Even then, it's better to hate the actions but not the person (referring to the "anybody" who does it as opposed to an "anything" which is being done). "Please quit your Zionist supremacist behavior." Well, I'll put up with your "supremacist behavior" if you put up with mine. *grin*. The history of Jews is filled with civil wars between the conservatives and the liberals. The conservatives were inflexible, poor and backward, but tenacious, stable and loyal. The liberals were productive, rich and powerful, but inconstant and assimilating. Ultimately, only the conservatives survived, but only the liberals made a difference. I feel the secret to the Messianic Era is if Jews stop their civil wars and learn to love eachother because of their differences. If these two forces can work together, the universe can change. --Haldrik 23:45, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

text: "Accept that there are also Ashkenazim who do not want their rabbonim to be renamed according to Zionist norms." Practically speaking in terms transcription, what are the transcription requirements? Do you require all articles about Judaica to be transcribed in Ashkenazi, or are there only specific requirements, such as articles about specific people? --Haldrik 00:04, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I understand the desire for a unified approach to transliterating.  However, many of the articles about Ashkenazi leaders would be rendered inaccurate if their names are written in a non-Ashkenazic fashion.  No follower of the Sfas Emes ever called their leader the Sfat Emet.  That's silly. On the other hand, If some guy like Daniel here wants to label the article about a certain city in the Northern part of Israel Tel-Oviv, that would similarly be silly. Of course, within Ashkenazic spelling, there is still differences of opinion. I, for one, would appreciate some collaboration on the matter.  But I don't believe that all transliterations should be uniform. (This to begin with. We'll have to hammer out the details later).--Meshulam 12:21, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm comfortable with articles on Ashkenazi leaders using spellings that reflect the Ashkenazi dialect. Other arrangements can be made to assist the searches for people using the standard Israeli Hebrew dialect. --Haldrik 13:57, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

text: If a Yiddishkiet article specifically uses the alternate transliteration system, it should be clearly stated at the top of the article. Is there a Yiddishkiet template that can be used to link all the appropriate articles together? --Haldrik 20:44, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: When I say Yiddishkiet, I mean anything realted to the yiddisher religion. I.E. Tallit should be Tallis/Tallit. That just makes more sense, most people call it a tallis. --Shaul avrom 22:50, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How can that be? All Jewish traditions use Talit, not just Yiddishers. --Haldrik 23:35, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Also, the Ultra-Orthodox may speak Yiddish where you live, but where I live many (most?) have already switched to Israeli Hebrew because of Israeli immigrants joining their community and close ties with communities in Israel. Humorously, the only time I hear Yiddish is when Reform are showing off. --Haldrik 23:43, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I speak yiddish. Yiddisher is an anglecised version of the Yiddish word for Jewish. And no, most Yidden use Tallis unless the are S'fardim or the mamish meshugenah zionist apikorsim. Tallit should probably be switched to Tallis. --Shaul avrom 00:02, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "Most Yidden use Tallis unless the are S'fardim or the mamish meshugenah zionist apikorsim". That's a lot of unlesses. --Haldrik 02:54, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

text: On the one hand, the Ashkenazic-speaking community has legitimate needs that need to be met. On the other hand, I don't think it can realistically expect to call all the shots. A little diplomacy and restraint in language might be in order. --Shirahadasha 04:10, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I completely agree. The discussion in this subsection is totally ridiculous. I believe a doze of classic Wikipedia laissez-faire is in order, and refer you to my compromise proposal below. - CrazyRussian talk/email 23:29, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: This proposal

message: Names to be rendered either in the accepted English spelling if extant (Maimonides), or, if not, that of the person's own preference (Yosef Sholom Eliashiv but David Ben-Gurion). Places in Israel according to Israeli spelling (Tzfat, nor Tzfas). Concepts in Judaism either Sfardi or Ashkenazi spelling and adopt a do-not-revert rule as with British v. American English (e.g. Kapparos not to be moved to Kapparot and plenty of redirects to go around). - CrazyRussian talk/email 22:59, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So what you're saying is: We must have no transcription standard! ;) --Haldrik 23:38, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: CORRECT!! :) :) - CrazyRussian talk/email 23:55, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OMEIN--Shaul avrom 00:13, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

text: You mean, Amen! :) --Haldrik 00:44, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

text: He means, UMAYN... hehehehe - CrazyRussian talk/email 02:42, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, your right. Umayn. Sounds like Lipa Shmeltzer. --Shaul avrom 20:51, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah guteneh Yor. --<B>Shaul avrom 13:56, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Compromise proposal