Talk:Ukiyo-e

message: I’d like to take up this discussion about whether we should have an IPA for ukiyo-e. The “transcription” we have, /u.ki.yo.e/, is supposed to suggest that the pronunciation should not, in any case, start with  as e.g. unit would, but it does not seem to me anything more than a simple syllabification of the term, adding nothing the average reader would understand. Wouldn’t it be better if we restored ? It does not look any much ‘weirder’ than the other and it links to a page where the symbols’ meanings are explained.  イヴァンスクルージ九十八（会話） 12:14, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Alright, currently being discussed here.  イヴァンスクルージ九十八（会話） 09:03, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  IPA can be helpful 

message: I am confused by the attempt to remove so much content, , here and here when this is a featured article, which means it has gone through strident review. Please don't attempt to remove content again without discussion.–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:19, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I wonder if such significant change would result in it's losing its featured article status.–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:20, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

text: I see that your edit summary says  A change of that magnitude should really discussed as a  proposal, rather than going ahead and making such dramatic changes.–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:41, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of content 

message: I want to remove the phrase "An actual print shop would not have been staffed by such beauties." from the subsection on print production because it's unnecessary editorializing. women have historically done work outside the home and not all historical depictions of women working are analogous to a pinup girl lounging on a piece of heavy equipment. it is annoying to me as a printmaker and an art history aficionado when an image that may potentially be used as a primary source in and of itself to talk about women making prints, because that is what it depicts, is framed in a way to make sure there is no ambiguity or room for interpretation by the viewer, to make sure the women depicted are to be seen as nothing but fictional "beauties" pretty stand ins for the real artisans who must be somewhere else. I have tried previously to delete this phrase not realizing you have to plead your case for professional and unbiased language on the talk page, and I am not a regular editor, but I am tired of looking at it. 98.247.146.29 (talk) 08:05, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I've reworded, but if we are going to use the image we need to make it entirely clear that this is a fantasy version (perhaps comic to the original audience). I've linked Katsushika Ōi, one of very few women who actually worked in printmaking at any senior level.  Johnbod (talk) 10:01, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

text: while I appreciate the capitulation to the historical fact of named women printmakers existing, and its nice to see a link to an existent article on a notable woman artist, do you perhaps have a contemporary source for the image being "comic or fantasy" ? because, again, what we have is a picture. can a picture not speak for itself? why does the caption have to talk over it specifically to insist tot he reader that the picture is lying to us? also, sorry that I'm speaking only from my formal education, but what we are looking at in the picture itself is not the work of "senior level" artisans but the everyday production workers of a shop, who would have been unlikely to get their name on the prints they made. the article you linked on Katsushika Ōi refers to her as a "production assistant" which says to me that it might not have been so uncommon for women to work, uncredited or not, in a printshop, as they are depicted doing in this picture itself. 98.247.146.29 (talk) 20:43, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added a reference, which is in fact even more emphatic than what I put, describing print production as a "world closed to women".  Katsushika Ōi worked for her father, and is comparable in this way with European women painters in the Early Modern period, many of whom also worked with family members, in a world where training and working as an artist was otherwise exceptionally difficult for women.  Johnbod (talk) 13:10, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Printmaking "beauties"