Talk:Solder

message: I'm gonna move it into the first paragraph area.  If that's not acceptable, move it back.  Or something. --CCFreak2K 01:21, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The invention is probably prehistoric, but the OED has a quote from 1374 concerning the soldering of lead roofs on cathedrals. --Heron 20:05, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etymology 

message: Does anyone have any information to add about "silver soldering"?  What makes it different?  Is it purely the make-up of the solder being used or is the equipment/process itself fundamentally different?
R
It contains silver (Ag) instead of lead (Pb). If you look under "Lead-free solder" you'll see several different alloys containing silver. 205.154.230.3 00:42, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Silver solder 

message: Does anybody know how they measure the tin content in solder? Or anything about cone cutters? Rfwoolf 18:27, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Measuring the tin content in solder 

message: "A solder is a fusible metal alloy"? Surely a Fusible alloy is one with a melting point below the usual boiling point of water? Contrariwise, any alloy will fuse, i.e. melt, at some temperature. P.M.Lawrence.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.166.63.4  (talk) 08:55, 6 July 2007 
* And why water? A fusible link, that article says, uses a fusible alloy, whose melting point obviously depends on the temperature, above or below boiling, that its application calls for it to activate at.--Jerzy•t 02:33, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Misuse of "fusible"? 

message: Why the heck is it pronounced 'sodder'?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.21.221 (talk) 20:37, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation 

message: The intro paragraph says that lead free solder is more common. My experience, at least in Australia, is that lead free solder is very hard to find. I work at an electronics repair workshop and we refuse to use lead free solder and I believe most other workshops do as well. Hobby stores here do not stock lead-free solder. Only a small percentage of new appliances I see contain lead-free solder and it's a pain in the ass to work with. --Spuzzdawg (talk) 03:49, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes mate, makes you wonder if it's just an exercise in political correctness to solve a 'problem' that may not exist. Keeps the greenies off the pollies backs. Example, How many fillings in your teeth (if any) have amalgam in them? Wiki Quote "dental amalgams are composed of 43% to 54% mercury"!! I have em and I feel ok. I think, Who am I?, What?, Oh sorry, drifted for moment. I've used lead /antimony solder. That's as close as I've got to this issue. --220.101.28.25 (talk) 07:41, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know about electronics, but for water pipes lead free is pretty much the only way now. For factory production, much electronics has gone lead free. For home/hobby electronics, it might be that tin/lead is still most common. The higher temperature of lead-free means you have to be better (faster) to avoid melting circuit parts. Gah4 (talk) 22:02, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Intro

message: The last paragraph in the Lead Solder section states:
Solder is made up of tin (30%) and lead (70%). It can bond metals together as it has a fairly low melting point of 183 Degrees Celcius.
Which contradicts the preceding text, and seems rather simplistic while adding nothing useful. The melting point is not the reason it can bond metals together, but that seems to be what this text claims - ice has a low melting point, but I would not use it to join metals! . Also the phrase "fairly low" is both subjective and unnecessary - the melting point is what it is, and requires no judgement as to whether it is low or high, other than perhaps that it is lower than the materials being joined. Also that is not the accepted English spelling of Celsius.
Assuming the preceding text is accurate (and therefore this is not), should it not simply deleted?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.189.28.130 (talk) 10:01, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inconsistent paragraph 

message: Under Solder#Flux_core_solder appeared the wording
: manufactured as a hollow tube and filled with flux.
That's almost certainly misleading bcz it suggests, perhaps implies, that the tube (that implies hollow) is formed and then filled, which is unlikely in light of the issue of inducing even hot flux to fill a narrow interior.  I'm no expert, but i'm pretty sure most long cylindrical products, hollow or solid, (e.g. pipes, tubes, fiber-optic-cable strands, wires, and mono-filament fishing line) are made by stretching (probably "drawing" thru multiple dies that progressively decrease the diameter) material ("blanks"?) of much higher diameter. In this case, the roughly millimeter-diameter flux-core solder is almost certainly manufactured by first producing a large diameter two-material intermediate, and i am replacing with the less ambiguous description:
:  manufactured as a coiled cylindrical material with one or more continuous bodies of flux embedded lengthwise inside it. 
As with the Cheez-Its, i'm not sure how they get all that flux inside, even assuming i'm right about drawing down the diameter. But at least some flux-core solders are soft enuf that the drawing might fuse the solder-to-solder interface left when solder already drawn thru a rectangular die is either folded lengthwise, or spiral-wrapped, around a chilled cylinder of flux; if that is feasible, it would presumably explain the Ersin 5-core solder as the result of another stage of drawing that could fuse 5 strands of single-core solder into a single strand with 5 cores. I suppose much of this depends on the ratio of the changes of ductility and tensile strength as temperature increases, since the harder you squeeze it against the die to shape and fuse, the harder you have to pull it to get it thru the die. Sure be a good thing if someone who knows what they're talking about weighed in!--Jerzy•t 05:51, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flux core 

message: Quoting the current text under heading Flux-core solder; "rosin flux used in electronics, where the corrosiveness of acid flux and vapours released when solder is heated would risk damaging delicate circuitry."
Surely the danger is also to people exposed to fumes when hand soldering, or 'reworking' joints after wave/ reflow soldering. For which reason fume extractors/ fans with filters are/ should always be used.
Perhaps a section on safety for both Solder and Soldering articles?? 
I come from an extensive background of through hole, high reliability, hand soldering, before SMD and reflow soldering was common. The Solder/Soldering articles seem to be written by younger technical types with a natural bias towards the newer soldering technologies. As noted above re fumes. I will put my 2 cents worth in to balance it a little. --220.101.28.25 (talk) 07:10, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  SAFETY: Flux Fumes etc. 

message: In my materials science class we studied phase diagrams of various alloys, including tin/lead. On the phase diagram for sn/pb it shows the eutectic point at 61.9% tin. Why then, is eutectic solder 63/37 and not 62/38? 173.14.231.57 (talk) 17:10, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eutectic Point 

message: Seeing how the hard solder section is about filler metals used for brazing shouldn't this be moved to the brazing article? As the brazing article, subsection "silver brazing", points out "silver solder"/"silver soldering" is a misnomer, because it's actually a brazing process. Wizard191 (talk) 15:20, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hard solder section 

message: I've edited out some unusual claims about this.
> In electronics, the traditional use of solder was to fortify 
> mechanically made electrical contacts, e.g. two solid copper 
> wires twisted together.
Simply not true
> This was in part due to the higher electrical resistance of 
> solder versus copper.
The resistance of solder in soldered twisted wire joints is a complete non issue in all but a tiny niche of applications. The reference given for this is an entire book, which as a reference is not much use. If the provider of this ref would ilke to give a specific place in the book we could discuss it meaningfully.
82.31.207.100 (talk) 20:23, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually I think the first point was completely true (unless I'm missing something about the now-missing text). The 'old school teaching' was that solder must never be used structurally in electronics, ie wires must be twisted before soldering (eg western union splice), looped through terminals etc. The thinking was (as far as I know) that because solder is much weaker than the metals being soldered it makes no sense to rely on it for mechanical strength. Apart from being a blind assumption (rather like the removal of lead from solder...), it is obviously false because twisted or looped conductors are rarely put under mechanical load before soldering, so they 'float' in the solder anyway. Through-hole component legs had to be crimped or bent on PCBs for the same reason (it also aids in manual assembly). One advantage of that approach is that joints don't come apart when they melt, with SMT an overheated component will stick on the board due to surface tension but come off if the assembly is flicked (a problem if it is a safety component, eg a sacrificial zener clamp). There was probably a similar industry-wide myth about resistance as you have pointed out, but I don't know much about its history. Adx (talk) 02:43, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Traditional electronics use 

message: I made a table before I saw that there allready was one here; however solders in this table are not specific for use in electronics, and also include hard solders
Soldering methodTechnologie van het lassen by Gilbert Declerck, Hugo Thoen	Type of solder                   	Melting temperature
Soft soldering                                                            	50% tin-30% lead-cadmium         	145°C
Soft soldering                                                            	70% tin-cadmium-zinc             	160°C
Soft soldering                                                            	3,5% gold-60% tin-lead           	170°C-180°C
Soft soldering                                                            	Silver-tin (4% gold)             	221°C
Soft soldering                                                            	Tin-antimony (95% tin)           	223°C-240°C
Soft soldering                                                            	Cadmium-zinc (82,5% cadmium)     	266°C
Soft soldering                                                            	Silver-cadmium-zinc (2% gold)    	280°C-370°C
Soft soldering                                                            	Silver-cadmium-zinc (10% gold)   	280°C-375°C
Soft soldering                                                            	Silver-lead (3% gold)            	305°C
Soft soldering                                                            	Silver-cadmium (5% gold)         	340°C-395°C
Hard soldering                                                            	Aluminium-13% silicium           	577°C
Hard soldering                                                            	Aluminium-5% silicium            	577°C-620°C
Hard soldering                                                            	Silver-cupper-zinc-tin-nickel    	630°C-680°C
Hard soldering                                                            	Silver-cupper-zinc-cadmium-nickel	630°C-680°C
Hard soldering                                                            	Silver-cupper-zinc-tin           	610°C-720°C
Hard soldering                                                            	Silver-cupper-zinc-cadmium       	600°C-720°C
Hard soldering                                                            	Silver-cupper-phosphorus         	625°C-780°C
Hard soldering                                                            	Silver-cupper-zinc               	680°C-850°C
Hard soldering                                                            	Silver-cupper                    	780°C
Hard soldering                                                            	Cupper-phosphorus                	714°C - 900°C
Hard soldering                                                            	Cupper-zinc-silicon-nickel       	865°C - 950°C
Hard soldering                                                            	Cupper-zinc-silicon              	865°C - 900°C
Hard soldering                                                            	Cupper-zinc                      	865°C - 900°C
Hard soldering                                                            	Silver                           	961°C
Hard soldering                                                            	Gold                             	1060°C
Hard soldering                                                            	Cupper                           	1080°C
Perhaps a additional column would be "Flux"
91.182.242.10 (talk) 09:21, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Another pointless factoid dump. This isn't a table of solders, it's a table of alloys (partly described) and their melting points. As such it is useless because it is missing two crucial pieces of information. Firstly the purpose of these solders. Soldering is a process, used to join two metals. It's about the need for joining, not just about the alloy. Secondly there are some large (200 degrees) temperature ranges quoted here. Is this a variation with alloy, or a wide eutectic range? This stuff matters. Juist chewing up a book and spewing out numbers is not the same thing as writing an encyclopedia. Andy Dingley (talk) 12:09, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Some missing Bismuth solders?
Here's a good list with applications:
http://www.bhavanimetals.com/Solder_Wire_Rosin_Core_Solder.htm
I didn't see any Bi18 combinations, but those also exist.  Sn50Pb32Bi18 is one.  Sadly, I can't find too many references to it so it must be rarely used.  We really need the more common types listed anyways to start the table, which we already have.  The problem is trying to find more kinds of bismuth solders which we have a very limited list of.  They're very useful for low-temperature work so someone will want to see them!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.196.246.113 (talk) 16:42, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Table

message: 1. Reflow is not a method developed for Lead-free solder. It was used to change the patchwork of Lead and Tin crystals that was generated by Tin-Lead plating of circuit boards into a uniform surface to place components on. "Wave soldering" was literally a wave of liquid solder projected above the surface of the remaining solder that touched the bottom of the circuit board as in went by on a conveyor. Occasionally Peanut Oil (@ 450 F) was used. This has made way to use of InfraRed as a means to fuse the solder paste on these boards. And generally double-sided (components to be soldered place on both top and bottom of board) are fused from only one side (although the board may be preheated on both sides.) 
2. Re using solder to electrically connect electrical components. Copper wire is no longer used to make printed circuit boards. Some companies, e.g. Hitachi, use full build electroless Copper deposition to create conductive paths on their circuit boards. The higher resistance Oxygen containing Copper is excused by the very low currents used by today's microelectronics. I'd note that uneven heating during the component soldering would result in "tombstoning" where chips, e.g. rectangular surface mount chip capacitors, would have the surface tension of the first melting side detach them from the other terminal and look like a tombstone in a graveyard.
3. Solder plating as etch resist and to protect surface from oxidation. An important purpose of solder in printed circuit board usage is ignored in this article. After the Copper metal has been plated into the vias (holes, connecting to layers within multilayer boards), a layer of solder is plated over the circuit paths. Tin alloys (and Lead) are resistant to oxidation by typical etchants (Ammoniacal Copper Chloride or Ammonium Persulfate used industrially) used to remove excess Copper. Other etch resist plating can be by Gold or Palladium. Occasionally the etch resist metal is stripped and the bare copper protected by treatments such as 2-Thiobenzimidazole.
4. The legendary Tin Whisker problem. First Lead does not exist in a solid solution in Tin. Solid solder exists as myriads of individual Tin and Lead Crystals. The as plated solder (grey matte appearance) consists of large individual Tin and Lead crystals. There are large stresses in the as-plated Tin crystals, but the reduction in Tin whiskers is exactly related to the surface area reduction by the Lead crystals. Due to the higher melting point etc the solder plating is melted or "Reflowed" to give it a shiny uniform surface for parts mounting and also relieved the stresses in the aforementioned Tin crystals. "Bright Tin" plating is not reflowed. Note other electronics metals are known for whisker formation Silver, Aluminum, Zinc to name a few. Tin is less affected by potential induced whisker growth than other metals (potentials in microcircuits can be many KV/cm).
5. In making Chemistry glassware, we used Potassium HexachloroPlatinate to create a metallic (Platinum) coating on glassware to solder it to other glassware or to metal parts (e.g. metal bellows). It was a common procedure for us; it was mentioned in the 1939 edition of Chemical Rubber Handbook.
6. Tin Cry is a soldering issue? Really?
2001:4898:80E8:5:0:0:0:4FA (talk) 16:02, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comments on Solder - Issues 

message: The first column of the table is written in the form of a chemical compound. I suppose that isn't so bad even though they aren't compounds, but chemistry tradition is that compounds are written in terms of atoms or moles, and not weight.  It seems that solder ratios are weight ratios.  Would it be possible to write the first column differently so it doesn't look like a compound, or molar ratio?  Gah4 (talk) 00:54, 28 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not a compound 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: A recent edit removed a link to Sherlock as advertising.  I probably agree, but then isn't the linked-to page also advertising? It seems to me, though, that if one company is pretty much the standard, they probably should have a page. Just wondering. Gah4 (talk) 22:04, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a good point. If it wasn't at the top of the article and had at least one reference, I think it would be acceptable. Prosecreator (talk) 16:59, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  advertising 

message: Why is FR-4, a PC board material, in the list of solders? I suppose it is useful, but the table name should change. Gah4 (talk) 08:57, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[FR-4]]