Talk:Yale University/Archive 2

message: I have an interview w an alum tomorrow. Any tips?
:Ask him what college he's from. CoolGuy 05:35, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: To spell it out rather more explicitly then: ask him which of Yale's twelve Residential Colleges he's an alumnus of. - Nunh-huh 05:42, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Interview

message: What is Yale's relationship to the military? I hear there is/were a lot servicemen from Yale. What's that about?
:You may be referring to the memorials on the Yale campus.  The World War I memorial and the Woolsey Hall rotunda that lists the names of alumni casualties of war. CoolGuy 05:36, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yale became, essentially, an army training ground during World War I, with passwords required for entry to the Old Campus, and with classes largely supplanted by military drills, through a combination of patriotism ("For God, For Country, and Fo Yale") and President Hadley's enthusiasm. (I don't know that this is a distinction from other universities, however....) The Yale Alumni War Memorial (the cenotaph) ("In Memory of the MEN of YALE, who, true to Her Traditions, gave THEIR LIVES that FREEDOM might not perish from the Earth.") and the memorial plaques in Woolsey Hall that Cool Guy mentions are particularly striking architecture in the plaza that is the heart of Yale. All the same, New Havenites rioted in the streets at the end of WWI because they felt Yale had not made a significant enough contribution to the war effort. - Nunh-huh 06:39, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting, oughta be in the article.... Dpbsmith (talk) 12:54, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yale and the military 

message: Nunh-huh reverted not only my addition of the Collegiate School of Connecticut to the intro paragraph of this article (even though it is mentioned later on under the History section), but also my change of the Collegiate School to the Collegiate School of Connecticut in the Colonial Colleges article. Here are some sources for my claim that it is the "Collegiate School of Connecticut" and not just the "Collegiate School", as it is commonly abbreviated:
* http://www.yaledailynews.com/article.asp?AID=13273
* http://info.med.yale.edu/labmed/newhaven/history.html
* http://www.britannica.com/ebi/article?tocId=9314278
* http://www.yale.edu/opa/v33.n17/story5.html
* http://www.yale.edu/opa/ybc/v26.n3.news.03.html
* http://www.yale.edu/je/old%20website%202005/about_je/history/
–MementoVivere 02:37, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: User Nunh-huh did that because it's wrong. To the extent that the Internet pages you've cited use it correctly, they do so to distinguish the place where the Collegiate School was (as they do when they also refer to it in passim as the "Collegiate School of Branford, Connecticut"). If one consults Brooks Mather Kelley's Yale: A History or George Wilson Pierson's The Founding of Yale: The Legend of the Forty Folios, or the original founding documents, one will find the school consistently referred to as the "Collegiate School", the name by which it was historically known. Similarly Thomas Clap uses this name in his The Annals or History of Yale-College, In New-Haven, In the Colony of Connecticut. The only point of confusion might be Franklin Bowditch Dexter's Documentary History of Yale University, under the Original Charter of the Collegiate School of Connecticut, where the place name is again used as a geographical identifier. Had "of Connecticut" actually been part of the original name of the school there would have been considerably less debate and conflict as the college grew as to whether its was a public or private institution. - Nunh-huh 03:18, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Collegiate School of Connecticut 

message: This section was obviously inserted by someone with an anti-Bush bias and very little information on the topic.  I fixed up the section to make it more accurate, but maybe someone can comment here about whether this section should even exist at all.  What is the policy of Wikipedia: are recent events given space if they will not be notable in the long term?  (Remember, the strike that is listed is not notable, it is one of at least 10 in the past 15 years.)
::I agree that it's too much of a news item and too litle of an encyclopedia item, but it does point out that one thing missing from the article is Yale's habit of having some sort of strike every few years, certainly more frequently than other schools; the controversy over Yale salaries 'Beep beep Yale is cheap' (pro and con), etc. Gzuckier 16:53, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I would agree, something should be said about the number of strikes at Yale versus comparable universities.  Perhaps there's a more appropriate way to say it for an encyclopedia article.  CoolGuy 18:13, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent developments 

message: Dude, you can't just keep chopping the piece out because somebody on the MIT talk page wouldn't let you copy it over there. MIT is MIT and Yale is Yale. When MIT starts having faculty admissions committee meetings discussing how the frequent random murders of students are hurting admissons you can discuss them there, and when Yale students start committing suicide due to stress levels and social ineptness then you can start discussing that, meanwhile that can be MIT-specific. Meanwhile, nobody died and made you pope. See if you can sway the majority of your peers. With the charm you show calling me a vandal, I'm sure it will be easy for you.Gzuckier 03:11, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, I was the one that started the conversation on the MIT talk page and couldn't help but notice what was happening on this page.  Anyway, I just have to say that if you feel those deaths are appropriate to list, you should probably add the explanation in the article.  Right now it just looks like a laundry list of deaths that doesn't give the reader much indication how they are relevant to understanding Yale.  The explanation at the end of the last death listed starts to give some indication, but perhaps it should be stated at the beginning of the list of deaths so that readers have some context.  Also, the article currently doesn't say anything about the Yale faculty admissions committee meetings, so you might want to state that there as well.  I know nothing about Yale, so you can't assume that readers like me will be able to connect the dots without some context.  Without a clear explanation of why these deaths are relevant, it is likely that some people will continue to view this list as POV.  --Umofomia 18:04, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, that's helpful.Gzuckier 15:12, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

text: "POV" means nothing to me in the context in which you've used it: perhaps you'll elaborate? The list of on-campus crimes originated at a time when Yale was subjected to its third bombing (probably as a consequence of its frequent labor disputes, but at the time thought to be a possible terrorist act. And most of the other crimes will be well-known to anyone who attended Yale. There's no reason to omit this information: it's clearly pertinent to the article. If MIT chooses to ignore its crimes on campus, it doesn't mean that Yale will follow suit, or that the MIT editors' censorious position is the "neutral" one. The trend among colleges—sometimes enforced by law—is to be honest about campus crime rates, rather than hide them. -Nunh-huh 21:47, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not disputing that these crimes are not pertinent to Yale, and because I'm not familiar with Yale, I leave that decision to your judgment.  However, I'm just pointing out that better explanation should accompany this list so that the context of why this list is relevant is known.  The reason why it may be construed to be POV is because no context is listed, and people may view it as an attempt to misrepresent Yale's crime rate as being higher than it actually is.  As I stated on the MIT talk page, I'm not against listing tragedies.  Crimes and deaths happen all the time on every campus.  You can't obviously list them all, since the list would probably end up being larger than the main article itself.  For that reason you list the ones that are relevant, and give an explanation why they are relevant.  On the MIT page, the two deaths that were relevant were left in the article with an explanation of the effects they had on the campus.  The other ones were removed because not much else could be said about them other than the fact that they happened (and if you argue that they should have been left in simply because they're objective facts of events that happened, then you'd have to list all the other hundreds of deaths that had occurred over the history of the school that simply just happened).  Remember that this is an encylopedia, not a police blotter.  --Umofomia 22:38, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm still puzzled by your use of POV. It's POV because no context is listed???? It's POV because it may be misconstrued????  As to the rest, at the moment I think there may be a bit too much detail on some of the crimes, and that we might consider at some point moving the long discussions to an article like "Crime on the Yale Campus" with shorter descriptions of the major crimes here. But these crimes are an important part of Yale history, and the four murders mentioned would all be mentioned in any decent history of Yale. I don't think there need be a much more explicit explanation than that. - Nunh-huh 23:01, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I do agree it seems somewhat paradoxical.  But it is possible to be POV with just objective facts alone.  For instance, you can always pile on the facts that support one side of the story in order to make it appear as if that one side is the only side that matters.  Even though every single statement made is objectively true, it may not represent the real situation.  One only needs to see, for instance, edits sometimes made to articles related to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to see this in action.  I'm not saying that what is happening here is nearly on that scale, but back to my main point, if these crimes are a relevant part of Yale history, then why don't you just mention that in the article rather than leaving a reader having to guess?  As someone who knows nearly nothing about Yale, my first impression when seeing a whole list of crimes that happened at Yale is that Yale is a lot more dangerous than most other schools, which is probably not the message you were trying to convey by listing those crimes.  You can't assume that readers will be able to make the connection to their significance in Yale history (even after this entire conversation, I'm still a bit fuzzy on this, which is why I point out you should provide context).  --Umofomia 23:27, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the onus of proving that a list of facts was added to an article in pursuit of a secret agenda falls squarely on the preson suggesting it. Adding a statement that they are historical incidents seems...superfluous. Seven crimes in a history of 300 years hardly seems a topheavy list. Your first response should probably be that Yale is a lot more honest than other schools. You shouldn't conclude that it's more dangerous before seeing a comparable list of crimes at those schools.  - Nunh-huh 23:56, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay... I'm just reporting what I observe.  You guys are certainly more knowledgeable about Yale so it's up to you to decide accordingly.  I just wanted to point out how it could be misconstrued (since already at least 3 people have viewed it that way), so just because you think it shouldn't be a valid conclusion doesn't mean that others won't arrive at it.  I'm not sure how you can conclude that Yale is a lot more honest though since this isn't an article that is officially released by Yale; for all I know, the entire article could have been written by Princeton graduates, for instance.  --Umofomia 00:20, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It could have been Princeton graduates. A real Yalie would have included the "Yale in Jail" bail program<g>. - Nunh-huh 01:03, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  colorado mad slasher guy 

message: Define 'top echelon' please.  If it's just the top 5 or 6 then there can be other schools that fit that description. CoolGuy 17:26, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Echelon 

message: It seems likely you are behind the recent repeated page blanking of the Harvard arms, being bored and having little else to do but sabotage our webpages.  If you continue to log on as RGluckman or whever, be assured we will get together and blank your arms constantly.  Leave our pages alone.  You are warned.  Thank you. unsigned; posted by 81.154.70.199
:Come now. Of course we won't. We have better things to do. Doops 04:55, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Harvard Sucks organization busy on Wiki?

message: Contributors to this page may be interested in this article, which has been proposed for deletion:
Midwestern Ivy League
Please review the article and provide your input on that article's Votes for Deletion page. - 18.95.1.22 03:56, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Midwestern Ivy League" ? 

message: Snipped:
:Yale students engaged in a game called bladderball, until 1982.  A story claims that students from Jonathan Edwards College broke the ball, hence their self-proclaimed motto: "J. E. Sux."
If this is significant enough to belong in the article, it should be sourced. Dpbsmith (talk) 16:14, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Bladderball is; J.E. Sux isn't. I'll dig up a ref for the former. - Nunh-huh 19:37, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Which you did; good; thanks. I took the "unreferenced" tag off the Bladderball article. Dpbsmith (talk) 20:40, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bladderball 

message: I think it may be time to compose an overview of vocal music at Yale for this article and spin off the details of the various groups to vocal music at Yale. - Nunh-huh 19:57, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  music spin-off 

message: I hit return too soon when reverting an anonymous addition, so I'll explain here instead of in the edit summary. It's incorrect to say "Yale University, incorporated as The President and Fellows of Yale College, is a private university", and it's irrelevant to the topic sentence. The Corporation governs Yale University, but they are not identical entities. . The addition also duplicated the information about the Corporation that already appeared in a more suitable place in the article. - Nunh-huh 06:44, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Yale Corporation

message: John O'Hara's desperate desire to have attended Yale is well-known. Feeling insecure about not having gone to college, he became an expert at second-hand in all things collegiate and Ivy. He drops all sorts of references to colleges in his books and newspaper columns; see John O'Hara#Columns for some egregious examples. 
But what I haven't seen is any explanation of why Yale was the particular object of his desire. Anyone know? (Other than the obvious explanation that everyone with any discrimination would prefer Yale...) Dpbsmith (talk) 16:56, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: John O'Hara