Talk:Schutzstaffel/Archive 1

message: Surely we could think of something more descriptive than 'murderous thugs'.
cprompt
:Hmmm.  I don't think it's accurate either.  It gives the impression that they were an ill-disciplined rabble.  Whatever else they were (and they were many repugnant things), I thought that as troops they were militarily effective. --Robert Merkel 05:58 2 Jul 2003 (UTC)
::Good call. I've focused in on that. "Murderous thugs" seems like a loaded phrase, so I replaced it with a reference to their cutthroat reputation.
::--cprompt
:::How is "militarily effective" or "well-disciplined" incompatible with "murderous thugs"? We can accept that they were very effective at murdering and brutalizing their victims, as well as in their military role.  Let's not whitewash the SS in the name of NPOV. -- The Anome 17:50 2 Jul 2003 (UTC)
::::I think the connotation of the word "thug" is lack of discipline. Hence using the word "thug" in this article would be misleading. See also Theodor Eicke  Andries 21:16, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Murderous thugs"? 

message: On January 6, 1929 Hitler appointed Heinrich Himmler as the leader of the SS, which then had only 280 people among its ranks. With Hitler's approval Himmler built up the SS and by the end of 1932 the SS already had 52,000 members. After only a year the SS had over 209,000 members.
Seemingly self-contradictory text.  Did it take three years to reach a membership of 52,000, or did it take one year to reach a membership of 209,000?  I'm guessing the writer intended to say "After an additional year, the SS had over 209,000 members" or "By the end of 1933, the SS had over 209,000 members."  I'm not changing this immediately, but I might soon. --Yath 22:15, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: A small note to the member numbers of the SS: It is correct already that Heinrich Himmler took over the SS 1929 with only 280 members. He removed however this party organization purposefully, already in December 1925 had the SS already 1,000 of members. During the so-called "seizure of power" of Hitler (1933) it possessed already approximately 52,000 members, opposite 350,000 SA members. In the time between March and December 1933 so many new members occurred the SS, which ordered Heinrich Himmler an attitude stop for the duration of 2 years and a "reduction" for now 209,000 the members strong SS... over 60,000 SS members became until 1935 again from the SS to dismiss! (if necessary I supply later gladly the sources concerning the numbers of members, am naturally natural.) Love of greetings Postmann Michael 02:58, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  209,000 members? 

message: Can somebody please give references for the existence for ODESSA. Otherwise I will remove it. I think ODESSA is just nonsense. SS men had a reunion once, I believe, but that is all and hence of very minor importance. Andries 22:06, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: ODESSA what better reference than here? I've seen it cited in many professional works on the SS. Nagelfar 00:12, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  ODESSA = nonsense 

message: The following is partially untrue and unreferenced, uninformative cliches:
:The SS evolved into a highly effective and deadly force during World War II. At its peak, its name and reputation for efficient and terrifying violence was enough to strike fear into the heart of anyone. 
It is untrue because I guess many Germans were happy to see the SS, not all of course. Besides the Waffen SS was criticized because of its high percentage of victims in comparison to the Wehrmacht . This indicates a lack of efficiency. Source: Hoehne Andries 22:11, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: I have removed the following 

message: Added organizational structure. I hate to see so many red links... let's get some stubs in for those names! --Jstalin 00:31, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Organizational structure 

message: The German version is very good, imo and extensive so let we save us work by translating and copying. Andries 18:37, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Great idea. Sam [Spade] 18:53, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that's very thorough indeed. -- The Anome 19:24, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Please help to copy and translate and from German version

message: I noticed that at the start of the article it says that the SS was based on the Praetorian Guards. This is incorrect the uniform and ethos of the SS was based by Himmler largely on the Jesuit Order. -User:Holden 27
If you read the entire article, you will see in the development section that the Jesuit's are specifically mentioned as are several other groups.  As far as the Roman connection, the Nazis themselves admited this, and stated very clearly that the Reich was an extension of the old Roman concepts.  The Standards used by the SS and SA were also based on Roman Legions -Husnock 31 Dec 04
:With respect to the contributor, if you state that Himmler's expansion of the SS was modelled on the Jesuite Order, you have 1. to explain in detail what you mean by this statement, and 2. give some kind of evidence. Please mind: The SS was one of the most criminal organization in world history which in deed murdered millions of people. Please be sensitive when you put such an organization in one sentence along with some very different organization, a religious order (whatever else you might think about Jesuits). And just because the SS liked aspects of the Jesuites, does NOT mean they were similar. Thank you.
:: My POV is that Wolff is a problematic source, and I think to quote him gives readers a chance to form their own opinion what credibility the words of such a man have. NPOV of article is secured. Thank you very much for providing the source. 84.189.113.31 18:15, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jesuit Order 

message: This article has been renamed as the result of a move request.
I'm changing my proposal (if a may) to address the concerns about consistency in the naming of the Nazi articles, but still having SS go straight to Schutzstaffel. I believe this is what  Michael Z proposed below. This will still have all the current links to the disambig page go without having to pipe them. Thsi changes a few of the rationale I listed below; ignore the ones that no longer apply. -R. fiend 00:50, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Requested move Feb 2005