Talk:Leather subculture

message: I have put extensive work into clarifying the relationship of the "leather subculture" to BDSM in today's major edit, by drawing on Gayle Rubin's academic work on the subject. Once BDSM is properly represented as a part of the leather culture, rather than (as in the earlier version of this page) representing the whole, it turns out to be the part of this article that is most in need of expansion, clarification, and most of all, sources. And this work is badly needed since I notice that elsewhere in BDSM-related articles, links to "Old Guard" and "New Guard" leather point to this page---which has never really provided much sourced data on these topics.
I nonetheless hope that my clean-up, re-organization, and even only preliminary provision of sourced statements for this page brings it closer to meriting the B-grade that it currently has. Cheers to all.Dpmath (talk) 19:35, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Relation of "leather subculture" to BDSM

message: In the article it says that the New Guard appeared in the 1990s. I am not an expert on this, so I doubt that I will rewrite anything, but I have read elsewhere that the New Guard appeared around the same time as the Old Guard, in the 1950's or 60's. That New Guard was in fact stricter than Old Guard in some ways, and came as a reaction to what some people saw as sloppiness of the older people. It is possible that I have got this all wrong, but I believe that I have read this. Can someone who knows more about this clarify things a bit, in the article or here in the comments? --Blue Elf 00:05, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: New and Old Guard

message: I would like to hear more about the connection between drag queens and leather folk. Afterall, it was both who were arrested at Stonewall. According my older leathermen friends, their shared outsider status made them allies. --Tiger MarcROAR! 18:28, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Connection with drag queens 

message: "An increasing number of pansexual clubs evolved as well." mean?--142.68.50.31 03:37, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  what does... 

message: This, like it seems many wikipedia articles on sexual culture (whether LGBT, BDSM, or whatever) is atrociously speculative and uncited. Really now! Is leather, etc., some sort of obscure culture whose history has been transmitted only through word of mouth, that you have no choice but to make these things the sources for your encyclopedia article?
Come on! Users who wrote all these things about leather culture and its history, sociology, psychology, etc.: How the hell did you come to know this stuff? Did you just hear it from your roommate's cousin's boyfriend this one time, or did you read it from among the reams and reams of reputable essays on topics like this? (There's a museum dedicated to  it, for Chrissakes!) If it really is the latter, why not just site it while you're making the contribution?67.85.178.110 08:47, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sourcing 

message: Both articles are lacking source based descriptions of their common similarities and differences. --Nemissimo 17:49, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Bear community]] 

message: Interesting new information relating leather to Goth subculture. The information deserves a subheading (or even sub-subheading) of its own, I think, rather than appearing only in the opening paragraph (which in any event should be kept very short and introductory, consistent with Wikipedia guidelines). And from what I can tell, this sub-subheading should probably come under the BDSM subheading. The information should also be sourced. If the contributor or someone else doesn't want to clean it up, I'll take it on in a few days. Also, I personally found the information on Goth as it stands is a little esoteric, could it be clarified a bit? Dpmath (talk) 04:14, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. maybe use as tie in to the fashion industry as well. Benjiboi 08:35, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Additionally, it might be worth thinking about whether the title of the page should become "Leather subcultures" (plural) given the diversity of cultures that are cropping up on this page. Dpmath (talk) 17:24, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Absent further edits from Thorrstein, I've gone ahead with the changes I suggested, and to which Benjiboy agreed. Dpmath (talk) 18:30, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: RE: Goth subculture

message: This was rather bizarre, and unfounded. In particular the claim that Alexandrian and Gardnerian practices include BDSM stand without explanation (As someone who is both a member of one of those traditions and also into BDSM I would have to say that there really isn't any such direct connection) and would be irrelevant even if true (Alexandrians and Gardnerians traditionally practice naked, which somewhat rules out much in the way of leather). 83.147.166.27 (talk) 00:13, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Paganism Section Removed

message: The image :Image:Glennhughes villagepeople.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here.  In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page.  Please check
:* That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
:* That this article is linked to from the image description page.
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --02:41, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Image copyright problem with Image:Glennhughes villagepeople.jpg

message: I've added a worldwide view template at the top to indicate the near-exclusive American focus of  the article.  Does the leather subculture even exist outside of North America?  After reading the article, I sure don't know!  See the guidelines on countering systemic bias. Elliotreed (talk) 01:53, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Likely they were commercialized and popularized in the US but similar culture is certainly found elsewhere.  -- Banjeboi 02:52, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Worldwide View 

message: Not sure if this will be useful or not, but here's a short article that might be relevant:
* 
rʨanaɢ talk/contribs 02:47, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source 

message: How has his work effected the leather subculture?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.103.209.229 (talk) 12:12, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tom of Finland? 

message: This section would be better entitled "popular people who also wore leather."  In this paragraph, the only thing that suggests that gay men's leather culture affected popular culture is a statement by Rob Halford, who is not really a valid source on the subject.  His only credentials to speak on the issue are that he: 1. is gay; and 2. wears leather.
If someone doesn't substantiate this section with some citations, it needs to be deleted or renamed to "popular people who also wore leather" or something of the like.  As of right now, this section attributes leather wearing, in general, to gay men's leather culture, though an earlier section in the article attributes gay men's leather culture to biker culture, which is a more likely to have influenced other leather wearers given the fact that more people associate leather with bikers than with gay men.
Correlation is not causation.  It's preposterous to assert that gay men's leather culture motivated Elvis (or other popular musicians) to wear leather without some citations.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.88.55.132 (talk) 18:25, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Influence on mainstream culture 

message: A few days ago, there was an article for leatherdykes.  I was doing some research to add to it, but today it redirects me here.  
How do I find out why it was deleted?
Jackiepatti (talk) 02:00, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  where did the leatherdykes article go? 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Leather subculture. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110727034528/http://www.liravensmc.org/About/leatherlifestyle.htm to http://www.liravensmc.org/About/leatherlifestyle.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140521142553/http://www.angelfire.com/linux/gayguide/fetish.htm to http://www.angelfire.com/linux/gayguide/fetish.htm
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: ‎Base12465 put the comment below in the edit summary, but I believe the user probably meant to post it to the talk page.  It is below - kosboot (talk) 21:21, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comment on too much focus on 'gay'