Talk:Theodore Roosevelt/Archive 1

message: Theodore Rossevelt Son Of FDR.  childhood nickname, from his family was actually "Teedie." The more well-known "Teddy" was from his first wife, Alice Lee, and after her tragic death he  did not like the nickname and rarely allowed its use.  I have edited the article to reflect this, though I only changed the section that began with the reference to a childhood nickname of "Teddy." (see: _The Rise of Theodore Roosevelt_, by Edmund Morris (1979, reprint 2001)
68.213.16.185 20:15, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Childhood nickname 

message: There has been much debate about the correct pronunciation of Roosevelt's last name, however, in several letters Theodore Roosevelt himself specifies the correct pronunciation. In a letter to the Rev. William W. Moir dated October 10, 1898 he writes:
As for my name, it is pronounced as if it was spelled "Rosavelt." That is in three syllables. The first syllable as if it was "Rose."
Source: Theodore Roosevelt Cyclopedia, pages 534-535. Available online at http://www.theodoreroosevelt.org/
I was more than a little embarassed at a Oct 2006 seminar on Theodore Roosevelt, Adventurer at Dickinson State University when I pronounced Roosevelt's last name multiple times with the long "oo" sound. I was corrected by Roosevelt scholar Clay S. Jenkinson as well as TR's great-grandson, Tweed Roosevelt that the pronunciation is ROSE-a-velt.  For the record. SimonATL 01:31, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronuciation of the Name Roosevelt 

message: Rjensen deleted my submission in regard to Roosevelt's performance in the 1912 election when I said that although he lost it was the best result achieved by a former President who was nominated by another party. Rjensen said it was misleading and asked if it was in comparison to Van Buren and Fillmore. Yes it is in comparison to Van Buren and Fillmore and no it is not misleading. What is misleading is you saying it is misleading. Let's compare Roosevelt's result in 1912 with that of Van Buren in 1848 and Fillmore in 1856. Roosevelt, 88 electoral votes and 27.4% of the vote, Van Buren, no electoral votes and 10.1% of the vote and Fillmore 8 electoral votes and 21.6% of the vote. So what is misleading about all this. Is it misleading because the best result by a former President was actually achieved by Grover Cleveland in 1892 when he actually won. Well I did not count Cleveland because he was renominated by the same major party as before and the fact I wanted to point out was a former President being nominated by a party other than the two majors--The Shadow Treasurer 05:16, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: comparing TR to unknowns does not help the user. To say TR was "nominated by a party" is highly misleading (he created the party). Rjensen 05:22, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  1912 election 

message: The subjugation of the Philippines is not mentioned.  There were terrible atrocities committed against the native population, yet the article only talks about building railroads and fighting yellow fever.  By omission, there is a strong pro-imperialist slant to the discussion of Roosevelt's foreign policy, as if we were benevolently bringing "civilization" to the natives.  Wikiquote has a number of first-hand accounts of the atrocities committed in the Philippines during the Roosevelt Presidency, which should be mentioned.  
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Philippine-American_War
::keep the POV out please. The cartoon falsely shows what happened  (there were no such executions) and neglects TR's response. This article is on TR's biography. So stick to what HE did and skip the falsehgoods and POV. Rjensen 14:36, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The cartoon shows what the criticism of TR's foreign policy was.  Leaving out the FACT that the military was harshly criticized for atrocities, including the documentation (link to quotations above) of soldiers bragging about atrocities, orders to shoot children, etc. while making the claim that he used "the army as well to build up the infrastructure of the new possessions, building railways, telegraph and telephone lines, and upgrading roads and port facilities," is strongly POV towards American exceptionalism and pro-imperialism.  This violates NPOV specifically because it represents an Anglo-American focus, an issue specifically addressed in the standards.  The Phillipine-American War lasted the duration of Roosevelt's Presidency.  To not even mention the conflict and its critics is just silly, and to leave out non-American perspectives on TR's foreign policy explicitly violates the NPOV standard.Play jurist 22:18, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The cartoon did not criticize Roosevelt or even mention him (he had Smith court martialed for ordering war crimes and expelled from Army.)  Yes indeed the Army built up the infrastructure--there no POV that says otherwise. The article is about TR -- and therefore has an American slant. The insurrection ended in 1902, unless you want to say it's still going on! Rjensen 01:34, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You make one good point: I didn't know about the court martial.  I think that the foreign policy section needs to be expanded to include more detail about US engagements, anti-imperialist criticism of Roosevelt's policies, Roosevelt's response, and the perspectives of the people that were targets to be "civilized."  My point was not that infrastructure building did not occur, but rather that that is not all that the military was used for.  Right now the foreign policy section is a whitewash and directly violates the NPOV standard on avoiding an exclusively Anglo-American focus.  You have now admitted the article "has an American slant" (though not the slant Americans like Mark Twain or William Jennings Bryan would give it), yet you accuse me of being POV!  Furthermore, the wiki for the Phillipine-American War page says the insurrection lasted until 1913.Play jurist 13:28, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

text: The right thing to do is just trim the section and move anything excessively detailed to the subarticle on his presidency, which is far too often ignored. Johnleemk | Talk 14:41, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Five paragraphs on a personal expedition to Brazil, but just two on his foreign policy?  If detail needs to be cut, there's plenty of fluff in this article.  The foreign policy section should be expanded at least to include the Phillipino-American War and mention of its critics.Play jurist 22:18, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The reason for the balance is that there is a long article on TR's presidency that explores policies of his administration. This is a bio and should focus on TR personally.  As for the Philippines the insurection was almost over when Auinaldo called his supporters to lay down their arms in April 1901. The US critics were pretty quiet then too, so it does not make for much of a story. Rjensen 14:10, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't find the other article that you're mentioning.  Insofar as this article, the one that most people would find when looking for information on TR including his presidency, has a "foreign policy" subsection of the section titled "presidency," that section should be complete and NPOV.  As it stands it isn't complete or NPOV.  I'll do some careful research to improve the foreign affairs section to include more information about engagements including the occupation of the Phillipines and the Phillipine insurrection (which continued after the surrender of the Phillipine army), to include reference to domestic anti-imperialist critics of Roosevelt, and to include non-Anglo-American perspectives and I'll update after that research to bring the subsection up to wiki NPOV standards.  Your help in fact-checking would be appreciated.Play jurist 19:39, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Ah.  I found the other article.  Maybe we can just agree that the subsection on foreign policy in the Roosevelt bio page should stay as brief, but should be editted to be less POV?play_jurist 19:44, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Philippine-American War 

message: Why is so little mention given to the fact that Roosevelt served as New York governor? Loomis51 10:24, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New York Governor 

message: Currently the artical says this of TRs fathers business:
His father was a New York City philanthropist, merchant, and partner in the glass-importing firm Roosevelt and Son 
But the biography I'm reading says that the Roosevelts had investments mostly in real estate and railroads.
This is my first time to suggest and artical change. Can someone verify that this change is needed?
Thanks,
Gary Setter
Gary
This is my source
Theodore Roosevelt : A Strenuous Life
Copyright 2002 by Kathleen Dalton
pages 16-17
"Thee (father to TR) worked in his father's plate-glass importing firm, Roosevelt and Son, where he also managed the family's immense real estate, stock, banking, mining, and insurance holdings. When Theodore was a boy, C.V.S. Roosevelt and his five sons owned Manhattan's Piers Nine and Ten, a farm on Staten Island, land in upstate New York, stock in the New York Central Railroad, and property all over lower Manhattan."
::Teddy's father was the Roosevelt who established Roosevelt Hospital, which today is St. Luke's - Roosevelt Hospital in Manhattan. In addition, he helped establish the Children's Aid Society. Teddy's son Quentin was the Roosevelt for whom Roosevelt Field in Nassau County, New York, was named. It was named for him because he - and Teddy were instrumental in establishing the field for use by volunteer pilots who served in World War One. Quentin was one of them. The field became an active commercial airfield after World War One, and is today the site of a very large Mall.
CORNELIUSSEON 13:04, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fathers business is misleading 

message: Excised the gigantic, double-width image of TR's grave marker, as it is already displayed in a reasonably-sized form higher in the article. Russell 05:49, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed enormous image 

message: Can we remove them? They're an eyesore, and somewhat redundant, seeing as we now have categories. Johnleemk | Talk 16:32, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I've removed the succession template for the Progressive Party candidacy (as it seems redundant), and the assorted templates made redundant by categories, as per consensus on FAC. Johnleemk | Talk 16:02, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Templates 

message: I removed the section on Oklahoma, which has nothing whatever to do with TR beyond his nominal signature.  I revised the sectiuon on race to emphasize TR believed in Darwinism and the unlimited power of progress.  Since TR was one of the major political leaders of the 20c, I added much more on his politics especially Progressivism and 1912. The bibliography must be about Roosevelt, and so I dropped the irrelevant items on other people and added the best books on TR.
67.176.74.236 18:38, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added a cleanup tag since the sections you added contain some POV phrases, consist of very long paragraphs, and are not wikified.  Thanks for the contributions, but please go through it and try to improve it according to the Wikipedia Manual of Style. --tomf688{talk} 23:21, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleaning up article 

message: History Channel mentioned in a special on Mr. Roosevelt that he went to Wilson to ask for a commission in World War I, but the president refused and later commented snidely about it.  Is this true, and, if so, should it go in? 68.225.242.19 05:18, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wilson's comment 

message: Just to alert those who are more expert on the subject than myself, but the article on William McKinley, Roosevelt's predecessor in the Presidency, states that he was the first President to ride in an automobile - the ambulance that took him to hospital. Roosevelt's article states that he was the first President to ride in an automobile. Perhaps one of these claims is erroneous?
*I would agree that one is probably wrong.  :)  The only thing I see is that the ambulance for McKinley was electric, and maybe they meant internal combustion here.  However, that seems like it's picking nits, and looking at it, even that says electric.  Good catch.  They can't both be right.  I'll remove this one.  Wikibofh 14:47, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  First President to ride in an Automobile 

message: I've found links to Questia in another article as well, is the number in the URL an affiliate ID? Archer7 13:35, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Questia links 

message: "surveys of scholars put him at the top of the second tier."
What does this mean? --Gbleem 17:33, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  top of second? 

message: "These simple activities, when characterized as the "strenuous life" are testament to the modern understanding that a man born to privilege in the late nineteenth century has a different understanding of strain than any person who had to "make their own way"."
What does this mean? --Gbleem 17:36, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  understanding of strain 

message: The King in the Mountain article lists Theodore Roosevelt as being the subject of a "King in the Mountain" legend. I don't see any reference to this in his article. Does anyone know of a legend where Roosevelt would return to defend the nation in a time of great peril? DoctorWorm7 21:14, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  King in the Mountain legend? 

message: The references to African American Soldiers present during the Spanish American war - while well meaning and based on much ""documentation" - unfortunately is not fully acurate. Nor, did Pershing have anything to do with all of the African American units that served in the war. I have posted over in the Wikisource area a file from the US Army Center for Military History that has a summary of the Muster Rolls of the Volunteer Army that existed during the Spanish American War, and there are several African American National Guard units on that list, some of which actually left the United States. Not all went to Cuba - some went to Puerto Rico - but these troops were over and above those accounted for by the Regular Army.
Addendum: John J. Pershing, nicknamed "Black Jack", was initially given the decidedly un-politically correct nickname of "Nigger Jack" because of his command of the 10th Cavalry Regiment (Buffalo Soldiers) as a young First Lieutenant.
I would heartily recommend a reading of the Wiki-article on John Pershing--as a starter-- for a cursory coverage of Pershing's actual involvement with black US Cavalry troops.
CORNELIUSSEON 22:48, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  African American Soldiers 

message: Can someone please go through these and cleanse them of the POV remarks and standardising the format as per Wikipedia:Cite sources/example style? I'd do it myself, but I don't have the time (right now) or the knowledge of Roosevelt to do this. Johnleemk | Talk 15:37, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Scholarly secondary sources" and "primary sources" 

message: what are the names of the daughters of Roosevelt who survived their birth? Hmains 19:31, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  living daughters 

message: does anyone know if this quote from the article is correct or not: 
On January 6, 1919, at the age of 60, Roosevelt died in his sleep of a coronary embolism at Oyster Bay, Nassau County, New York, and was buried in Young's Memorial Cemetery. Upon receiving word of his death, his son, Archie, sent a telegram to his siblings, stating simply, "The old lion is alive."
or 
should the quote be "the old lion is dead" 
 
This article is subjected to so much vandalism, it is difficult to determine what is vandalism, what is true, what is not.
thanks Hmains 06:01, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've heard that the telegram was "the old lion is dead". It would make a lot more sense too. AllanHainey 08:42, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  "the old lion is dead" is correct.  Also, Roosevelt was 59 when he died, not 60.SimonATL 21:39, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  alive or dead 

message: Having lived in Roswell Georgia, USA, the childhood home of Roosevelt's mother, Martha Bulloch who was known affectionaltely as Mittie, I added a page on her with photo as well as an additional page on the beautiful Greek revival home Bulloch Hall, also in Roswell GA,
SIMONATL 02:07, 01 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New page on Roosevel's mother, Martha (Mittie) Bulloch Roosevelt 

message: Thanks for uploading :Image:1783.jpg. I notice the 'image' page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is therefore unclear. If you have not created this media yourself then you need to argue that we have the right to use the media on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the media yourself then you should also specify where you found it, i.e., in most cases link to the website where you got it, and the terms of use for content from that page.
If the media also doesn't have a copyright tag then you must also add one. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then you can use  to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media qualifies as fair use, please read fair use, and then use a tag such as  or one of the other tags listed at Wikipedia:Image copyright tags#Fair_use.  See Wikipedia:Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.
If you have uploaded other media, please check that you have specified their source and copyright tagged them, too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any unsourced and untagged images will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Nv8200p talk 21:17, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image Tagging [[:Image:1783.jpg]] 

message: I heard that a picture of Teddy Roosevelt in his pajamas served as the basis for the character Dr. Robotnik from the Sonic: The Hedgehog video game series. Is this true?
71.194.181.240 03:29, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inspiration for Dr. Robotnik? 

message: The "firsts" section is a mix of trivia and useless and undocumented. Do we need it? I suggest we cut it to 5 items. Rjensen 06:17, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *I think most of them are actually quite significant and should stay in the article.  I'm going to delete the one about coming from New York though, since he was the second, not the first. Johntex\talk 06:39, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

text: * The trvia item "TR was the first president born in the second half of the 19th century {1858)." seems to be excessively trivial.... MarcoTolo 04:46, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  trivial firsts 

message: The article is really great but I would like to see the intro getting a little more expanded. Thank you. CG 21:23, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  the intro is too short 

message: according to 'Twentieth-Century America' by Thomas C. Reeves, Roosevelt himself "stunned Wall Street" by announcing a suit against Northern Securities Company in 1902, and "During Roosevelt's administration the government started forty-four more suits against corporations, including such combines as the American Tobacco Company, the Du Pont Corporation, and the Standard Oil Company." the wikipedia article says he busted 44 trusts, in which case (and even forgetting the NSC one) it seems the suits filed by the government must have been outright magical in their efficiency? supine 11:04, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  concerning needed citations, Presidency 1901-1909 

message: There's no reference to John Muir in this article.  That seems a little strange. Elijahmeeks 22:56, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  John Muir??? 

message: This is a bio of TR, and we have to keep that perspective when dealing with conservation.  A couple of sentences on Muir and Pinchot should suffice. Rjensen 18:03, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conservation 

message: I corrected the spelling of conservation. (it was "Consevation") 71.209.156.154 20:49, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  More on "Consevation" 

message: The fact that TR's conduct was deserving of this extremely rare formal recognition, despite the controversy, should not consign it to the "trivia" department.  That BOTH he and his son got the MOH is a fitting fact for the trivia section. SimonATL 20:38, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  In any Bio, Winning the Medal of Honor (MOH) is hardly trivial 

message: I have removed the trivia section from the article. I've merged what I think is encyclopedic and is corroborated by a source to other sections of the article. The remainder, which I feel is either unencyclopedic or is unsourced is below:
* Roosevelt was the fifth cousin of the later President Franklin D. Roosevelt, and the uncle of Franklin's wife, Eleanor Roosevelt.
*First president born in the second half of the 19th century {1858).
*Roosevelt was fluent in several languages including French, German and Dutch. He is said to have read in excess of 40,000 books in English and other languages.
Johnleemk | Talk 18:00, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trivia and popular culture 

message: Great job John on the re-write - OK - How is this done and by whom? SimonATL 19:28, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We let it run its course. Eventually someone clearing out the FARC backlog will realise enough time has passed and quietly remove the tag, unless there's sufficient support to delist the article (in which case both the FARC and FA tags will go). Johnleemk | Talk 15:29, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removing "featured article removal candidate" 

message: Is a picture of Roosevelt as he appeared in the Scrooge McDuck comics relevant in the article (at the popular culture section)? I actually have the comic but I want your approval before uploading it. CG 20:09, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We'd need to discuss the McDuck cartoons more to qualify for fair use, however. I don't think a couple of sentences is enough to stand up in court if fair use is challenged, and we prefer to be safer than sorry. Johnleemk | Talk 15:28, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

text: The cartoons all have a copyright tag (and all were published in US before 1923 so their copyright has expired and they are public domain.) Rjensen 21:42, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They were not tagged until I added  to them. It's just a technicality, really. Johnleemk | Talk 14:45, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Even if these images were PD's they needed tags to indicate that. As for the Scrooge picture, it's better if I don't upload it? CG 17:49, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably. If we could get something verifiable and decent about TR, it might be fair use, but it's really tenuous. I think our coverage is sufficient. Johnleemk | Talk 17:56, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What could possibly be included that would make the image fair use? CG 18:04, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

text: (indent shift) A substantial (at least a paragraph) discussion of the subject of the image. Johnleemk | Talk 18:06, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture of Roosevelt in the Scrooge McDuck comics 

message: Theodore Roosevelt is my great-great grandfather on my mothers side, and I have a photo ulbum of pictures of him, and its really neat. Amaas120 03:02, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  My Great-Great Grandfather 

message: The proper designation of the Rough Riders unit is the 1st United States Volunteer Cavalry Regiment, NOT the 1st United States National Cavalry.SSG Cornelius Seon (Retired) 03:32, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rough Riders 

message: I believe, in addition to his other athletic and combative pursuits he was an ethusiastic single stick fighter. I'll check my reference and add it if I'm correct. Epeeist smudge 10:42, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes - TR was quite enthusiastic about this and used to fight General Leonard Wood in the White House until he busted up his hands and wrists a lot. Also, he remains the only president to have gotten a black belt - judo while in office. SimonATL 21:48, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Single Stick 

message: I'll leave the fixes up to people more capable of handling such vandalism.. as I would imagine it is since:
Life in the Badlands
Living near the boomtown of Medora, North Dakota, Roosevelt learned to ride and rope,and launched a nuclear warhead at bolivia, occasionally getting involved
as far as I know.. There were no nuclear warheads in 1885!  I can fix the error but I don't know what the policy on say.. banning the idiot that wrote it.. is. --Jbencivengo 13:59, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If they had nukes at the time, you know he'd have done it. Gmuir 17:19, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Interesting fact in "Life in the Badlands" section 

message: Someone needs to determine when the page was last complete and restore it to that state.  It is currently very messed up.
207.72.39.89 14:41, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: Didn't Roosevelt want to institute a moderate spelling reform?Cameron Nedland 23:01, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  yes he did, but he took a lot of flak and negative press, some quite funny, actually, and pulled back from that goal. SimonATL 21:49, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spelling Reform 

message: The expedition down the River of Doubt in 1913 was no tropic vacation. It became a race against time to save TR's life and so weakened him that he would not have survived WWI had he been given command of a division by Wilson that he begged for. Had he not made that expedition, he might have been able to win back or at least fight for another Republican nomination. That expedition really changed everything for TR and it is not appreciated enough by the general public. SimonATL 12:34, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  1913 South American Expedition 

message: TR's daughter, Alice Roosevelt Longworth recounted that, indeed, her father got an appointment with President Wilson where he asked for and was denied command of an infantry division.  Division command would have made TR a two-star major general. Can it be any wonder that Wilson, a pacifist college professor, and hardly a TR-style "man of action, would prevent his great rival, Roosevelt from upstaging him.  Wilson well knew what happened when TR went off to war the first time and knew that a TR as a returning WWI hero, and that's assuming he survived (probably unlikely given his health and the battlefield conditions with the increased lethality of the machine gun and modern artillery) would be a serious threat to Wilson's chances for re-election.SimonATL 14:31, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  TR's Attempt to Fight in World War I 

message: I am not familiar with wiki so I am just letting you know that Roosevelt's firsts are listed twice:
4.4 Presidential firsts; 
9.2 President firsts
Take care!
:Thanks. I think somebody reorganised the article, but I cut out the section at the end. That was just a pitiful trivia list. It is much better off as prose. Also, whoever is removing footnotes: STOP. It is not very clever. Johnleemk | Talk 03:41, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: all the footnotes to Thayer have to be removed. That book is not recommended for users--it's a potboiler. The information is covered MUCH better in the other bios listed. Rjensen 04:31, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a source, not a recommended book for further reading. It corroborates the article content, and that's all that matters -- anyone who wants to know where we got tidbit X can find it thanks to the footnotes. Anyone who wants an in-depth biography can look up any of the real books listed in the references section. If you want to destroy this easy way of corroborating the article content (the purpose of which is to assure readers that no, we did not make it up), you sure as hell had better get to work replacing them with the appropriate footnotes for those books. Also, the footnotes that were removed had nothing to do with Thayer's book -- they were an integral source for the legacy section. Johnleemk | Talk 05:45, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

text: why believe what's in Thayer when nobody else trusts the book?  answer: T=hayer is online (because he's out of copyright).  That's not a strong basis for an encyclopedia Rjensen 05:51, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you're implying that the article contains inaccuracies, excise them. Otherwise if the portions of Thayer's book that are cited are accurate, what's there to complain about? Most of the content in the article is not even based on Thayer's book -- Thayer's book was cited because it is an easily accessible source for most of our readers, who can immediately check to see that no, we did not pull X out of our asses and that at least someone else from a century ago said the same things we do. Besides, if the other books are greater sources, why not replace the Thayer citations with them (with page number, etc.)? Thayer's book is poorly written -- I never denied that. But it is easy to look up, and none of the crap in it was used to write the article. Johnleemk | Talk 06:22, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Great--we're in full agreement about the Thayer book. I'll get some better references to Harbaugh or Brands that will be more useful to people. Rjensen 06:25, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I notice that while Thayer is still cited in the references nowhere does it say what book of Thayers is cited, at least I can't find it. You should correct this & make it clear what book you're actually citing (I don't know so can't add it) while it is still referred to. AllanHainey 08:56, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This really ticks me off -- it's supposed to be mentioned in the first footnote that references Thayer but SOMEONE removed it. I'm in no mood (and don't have the time) to find out whoever's been removing these footnotes, but I have a lot to tell them... Johnleemk | Talk 17:52, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

text: It's the 1919 bio by Thayer-- a "quickie" published soon after TR died and not based on research. Rjensen 09:00, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Roosevelt's Firsts 

message: I used to think that TR's attitude was largely the result of his being influenced by Mahan. But when I did more homework on the influence of his family, including his mother and Bulloch uncles, and actually read TR's Naval History of 1812, I realized that Mahan's book only gave more force to what TR already knew - A world power without maintaining a worldwide navy will not stay that way.  He was also well aware of the growing strength of the Japanese navy in the East and argued for the annexation of Hawaii because he knew that Japan coveted the islands for both commercial as well as military purposes.
What TR understood so completely was reinforced on December 7th, 1941 and the US has, for the most part, maintained a dual ocean Navy ever since. SimonATL 15:55, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Roosevelt's Influence on US Naval Growth 

message: An anonymous editor had the audacity to claim that TR was fired from his post as Asst Secretary of the Navy. That "ignorant" edit was changed. In fact, on the internet you can find a facimile of a letter written by the Navy Secretary in which he thinks TR was just being idealistic and made a big mistake RESIGNING his post as asst secretary.  The so-called historian, simply lumped TR into the category "imperialist."  That betrays only a superficial understanding of this complex man.  His post was removed, but not by me. SimonATL 15:55, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed Patent Falsehood about TR 

message: Throughout all or my research of Roosevelt, it has been said that he practiced boxing, wrestling, judo, and possibly aikijutsu. However, this page says he practiced jujutsu, which I have not been able to find anywhere. The S 19:18, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: TR his friend, General Leonard Wood were fond of the martial art and sport called singlestick and used to emerge from a contest quite bruised from their rounds.  TR went blind in one eye as a result of a boxing blow although this was kept quite secret at the time. SimonATL 01:21, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Martial Arts 

message: While Roosevelt may not have attended public or private school, calling his private tutoring "homeschooling" is a gross misrepresentation of the facts.  Private tutoring bears no resemblance to homeschooling as described in the homeschooling article.  Indeed, the homeschooling article lists private tutoring as an alternative to homeschooling.  I suggest we consider revising this bit of information to more accurately reflect Roosevelt's privileged upbringing.  Rklawton 18:17, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: fact is he was schooled at home in a situation almost identical to what is called home schooling (TR's parents did it not private tutors). The Homeschooling movement of 2006 tries to distance itself from the upper class, but that is its peculiar POV and we should not change history to reflect that POV. A leading biographer says: "The most obvious drawback to the home schooling Roosevelt received was uneven coverage of the various areas of human knowledge."  T. R.: The Last Romantic by H. W. Brands Page : 49. Rjensen 18:44, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Great!  Here's two independent inconsistencies that we'll want to clear up.  First, the TR article states that he had private tutors.  You assert that he did not.  If you are certain, then please revise the TR article.  I'd be surprised if he didn't have private tutors, but I have no sources that point either way, and I'm quite happy leaving that bit of research up to you.  I certainly won't contradict your findings.  Second, the homeschooling article differentiates itself from private tutoring.  If homeschooling includes private tutors, and I agree with your POV concerns, then we should tag or edit the homeschooling article accordingly.  I think this is reasonable because homeschoolers often rely on outside resources - and these may include topical experts, and that starts blurring the private tutor line.  If you are sincere in your desire to retain the "homeschooling" label and link, then I'll be happy to edit the homeschooling article accordingly, and I may require your support.  What say you?  Rklawton 19:54, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

text: TR had private tutors esp in language and literature, but his parents seem to have been about as active as they. The boy in many ways was self educated (by age 15 he knew more biology than his tutors or parents and maybe more history). Yes the home schooling article needs changes and I will support changes there. They have not thought about the issue for 1880 which is what the TR article deals with. The point is the parents did NOT send him to fancy private schools which were numerous in NYC area, because they felt they could do better at home. Rjensen 20:26, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It appears we're of the same mind on this matter.  It seems you are more famaliar with this matter.  Will you make the edits when you have the time?  I'll keep an eye on any objections other editors might raise and support your efforts. Rklawton 00:40, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK-- I made a few changes to homeschooling article (and added a critical bibliog.) Rjensen 01:26, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

text:  We should also remember that TR's father was of sufficient means to take the children to see the Egyptian temples, pyramids, the Theodosian walls in Constantinople, the Acropolis in Athens, (if I recall, humm, have to doublecheck that) and many other places first hand. It was no accident that one of TR's professors at Harvard, in exasperation, said to TR, "See here, Roosevelt, I'm teaching this class."  TR had to be tutored in math and Latin, because he was difficient in them and he never mastered either Latin or Greek, which, actually NOT the norm for children who went to good private schools.  As one who likes to sit in book stores and compare Caesar's Commentaries in Latin with several histories of him in Greek, I lament that he didn't have that exposure. He would have enjoyed it.  Well, he would have later - wading thru the actual classes, for me, at least was painful to say the least. Veni vidi, vinci, good grief, I hated it then, but appreciate it now, only in hind sight. I didn't have a "choice" there but was in a private school where Latin was mandatory. SimonATL 14:30, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Homeschooling 

message: Another interesting subject is the difference between the wealth of the New York City Roosevelts as compared to their Hyde Park cousins who were far far wealthier.
::The Hyde Park Roosevelts made their wealth by being among the first people to open China to US trade. This brought them wealth on a scale many more times than the NYC Roosevelts, who, while wealthy from dutch glass importing, were no where nearly as rich.  When I explain it to modern-day children, I tell them that I'm exaggerating but to condider the Hyde Park Roosevelts billionaires and the Roosevelts of NYC mere millionaires.  That makes the point for the kids.
::TR lost most of his own personal inheritance when a blizzard of 1886-1887 wiped out almost his entire herd of cattle in his ranch out in the South Dakota Badlands. From that time on, (to our immense historical value) he had to suppliment his income with writing. He had already authored the best account of US Navy actions in the War of 1812 to date, while still a student at Harvaed. SimonATL 21:58, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  TR Family Wealth 

message: Why is this not even mentioned in the article? Roosevelt is directly responsible for nearly driving this animal to extinction in America, and he is praised as a conservationist??!! What insanity - the man was anything BUT a conservationist.
:Concerned about dwingling mammals, Roosevelt founded the FIRST US national hunters club, the Boone and Crocket Club in New York City.  In a time when Americans thought their Natural Resources virtually inextingusable and unlimited, he was the first president to see the END of these resources if the polices of his time were continued and actually proposed what was,  in that time, the absolutely shocking proposition that there HAD to be planning on resources such as metal ores and coal, precisely because they were, by definition finite. Believe me, NO American political leader had even yet considered such a concept.  Roosevelt was thinking well into the future here. In fact, he organized the world's first national Conservation Conference, personally signing invitations to all the govenors of US states and territories, the entire US Congress and 500 of the Nation's top scientists, scholars, engineers, journalists and other experts. He was 100 years AHEAD of the crowd. One of the chief reasons he attempted to regain the Republican nomination is because of a complete roll-back by President Taft of all of his conservation policies beginning with the firing of Gifford Pinchot. No, he was way out in front of his time. And without his efforts, what's now Yosemite National Park would be a privatly owned tourist facility with hotel for the idle rich as would Yellowstone and virtually all the great US National monuments.  When the Congress attempted with legislation to ban his setting aside national forests in Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Wyoming without approval, he put left the bill unsigned on his desk until he had created the rest of the Northwest's present major national forests... and only THEN did he sign the bill that would have gone over his veto, thus negating the very intents of the lumber and mining interests against the larger American public.  I could go on and on about this man. He was the PRE-eminent conservationist of his day and who actually introduced the word into common American usage.
: But Roosevelt, in his day, did NOT know what we know take for granted about so-called predators such as wolves, that they actually increase the health of the species they prey upon through their natural culling out of weak animals. 
:That Roosevelt seemed to be anti-wolf which simply reflected the popular sentiment of his age that ignorantly believed wolves nothing but purely destructive and had to be erradicated as a danger to man, cattle and sheep.  Don't demand that the man understand his his day what almost no one but some aboriginal native Americans knew at that time. Today, ask any rancher north of Yellowstone Park about wolves and you'll get the same response in the year 2006 that Roosevelt might have echoed in 1906. 
:Speaking of Yellowstone, without Roosevelt's protection of Yellowstone Park and its one remaining "large" herd of bison, and the only herd larger than 50 in the US, these magnificent creatures and many others better protected in the new national parks that he created, might have gone the way of the passenger pigeon and the dodo bird.SimonATL 14:51, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Roosevelt ordered eradication of wolves from American soil. 

message: We're going to need to lay down some ground rules or else we'll end up working against each other on this article. Right now I see some major problems:
#Excessive sections; we don't need one whole section on the TRA, nor do we need one whole section on Roosevelt's reading habits.
#Too many pictures. I find that they make the article crowded and a bit difficult to read. The Wikimedia Commons is for pictures, not Wikipedia.
#Informality - why do we keep referring to Roosevelt as TR? There's no good reason for this.
#Trivia - we don't need a whole section for this. Trivia is generally unencyclopedic and a sign of poor writing. If something is worth including in the article it can be incorporated into the article body. It should not need its own section. My recent edit did just this.
#Subarticles? IMO, some sections, like the South American expedition, are too long and excessively detailed. The typical reader won't be that interested; couldn't we just create a main article for the expedition for the interested scholar, and have a summary here for the average reader?
Just some thoughts. Johnleemk | Talk 07:39, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Some good points. I suggest the South American Expedition be spun off as separate article.  I would keep the pictures. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rjensen (talk • contribs) . 08:29, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think the initial photos make sense. Remember that many people will come to this article as a starting point and they might not even know a dang thing about Wikipedia Commons.  Most don't know about the commons, they hear about the general Wikipedia on-line Encyclopedia. SimonATL 04:20, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some ground rules 

message: I deleted the line: 
:"The laws helped the large meatpacking and food processing firms shut down small, unsanitary competitors."
In it's place I put "These laws provided for labeling of foods and drugs, inspection of livestock and mandated sanitary conditions at meatpacking plants."  From what I understand the laws had an impact on the large firms as well as the small ones.--adamatari 00:02, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minor NPOV Edit 

message: To The Mayor.                                                                                      April 17, 1897
My dear Mr. Mayor:
I herewith tender you my resignation to take effect on April 19th, in accordance with our understanding.
I wish to take this opportunity, sir, to thank you for appointing me, and to express my very deep appreciation of your attitude toward me, and toward the force, the direction of which you in part entrusted to my care.  We have been very intimately associated with your work and I know, all men who have been associated with you do know, the devotion with which you have given all of your time and all of your efforts to the betterment of our civic conditions, and the single mindedness with which at every crisis you have sought merely the good of the City. I have been able to work so zealously under you because you have never
<page break>
required of me but loyal service to what you conceived to be the best interest of New York City, and I well know that had I followed any other course it would have met with instant and sharp rebuke from you.  I know also the almost incredible difficulties with which you have been surrounded, and the impossibility of your acting so as to please every one. Nevertheless, I firmly believe that the people are now realizing that you have given us far and away the best administration which this City has ever had.  In this Department we, as well as you, have been hampered by unwise legislation, and the so called bipartisan law, under which the Department itself is administered, is of much absurdly foolish character that it has been impossible to achieve the results which would have been achieved had you had your hands free with reference to your appointees, and had your appointees in turn possessed full and proper power over the Force
<page break>
Nevertheless, very much has been accomplished. For the first time the Police Force has been administered without regard to politics, and with an honest and resolute purpose to enforce the laws equitably, and show favor to no man. The old system of blackmail and corruption has been almost entirely broken up; we have greatly improved the standard of discipline; we have preserved complete order; and we have warred against crime and vice more effectively than every before. The fact that we have come short in any measure is due simply to the folly of the law in which deprives us of the full measure of power over our subordinates which could alone guarantee the best results.  We have administered the civil service law in spirit and in letter, so as to show that there is not the slightest excuse for wishing to get rid of it, or for claiming that it does not produce the best possible results when honestly enforced.  About two-fifths of the patrolmen have been appointed by us under the operation of the civil service law, and they make the best body of recruits that have ever come into the service.
<page break>
This is about four times the number of appointments that have ever before been made in the same period; and we have also made many more promotions.  On promotions and appointments alike we have disregarded wholly all considerations of political and religious creed; we have treated all men alike on their merits, rewarding the good and punishing the bad without reference to outside considerations.  This was the course followed so long as the Brand had control over all promotions; and it has been followed in the promotions actually made.  I have joined with Commissioner Andrews in refusing to take part in any I have refused to take part in any effort to promote men or appoint them on other terms.  I can not resist expressing my appreciation of the high-mindedness, disinterestedness, courage, and fidelity to duty which Commissioner Andrews has brought to the performance of every official action.  
During my terms of service we have striven especially to make the Police Force not only the terror of the burglar, the rioter, the tough, the law-breaker and criminal of every kind; but also the ready ally of every movement for good.  One of my pleasantest experience has been working with all men, rich and poor, priests and laymen, catholics 
<page break>
and protestants, jews and gentiles, who are striving to make our civic conditions better, and who are striving to raise the standard of living, of morality, and of comfort among our poorer less-fortunate brethren.  We have endeavored to make all men and all societies engaged in such work feel that the police were their natural allies.  We have endeavored to make the average private citizen feel that the officer of the law was to be dreaded only by the law-breaker, and was ever ready to treat with courtesy, and to befriend any private citizen anyone who needed his aid.  The man in the ranks, the man with the nightstick has been quick to respond to our efforts, quick to recognize honesty of purpose in his superiors.  You have in the police force a body of admirable men, brave, able and zealous; under proper leadership, and under a proper law they can at any time be depended upon to do the best possible work.  I have bitterly regretted that the law under which the force is administered is so bad that it has been impossible to make of this splendid body of men all that could be made if the Board had a responsible head, with complete power, and absolute single-mindedness of purpose to do right.
Again, thanking you for having appointed me, and for your treatment of me during my term of service.  I am, with much gratitude and great respect
Very truly faithfully yours,
(signed) Theodore Roosevelt
COMMENT - For the record. 
Also - The purported "original" letter is up for sale on Ebay for $8,499,99 and the URL is:
here
and if it is the original as opposed to a earlier copy, its quite significant, historically, I'd think. SimonATL 11:48, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Roosevelt's Letter of Resignation as New York City Police Commissioner 

message: If the term greatness has any meaning as applied to US Presidents, it applies to Theodore Roosevelt.  With Roosevelt as the Time Magazine June 26th Cover story and featured historical character, even the editors of Time Magazine have figured that out as have Karl Rove and George W. Bush.  Greatness does not imply human perfection. Like anyone, Roosevelt had some basic character flaws and blind spots, but none of these diminish his achievements for greater good of his country for the most part, and the world in other ways, and such achievements are the mark of that nebulous characteristic, "greatness."
By the way, a movie based on the Morris book, "The Rise of President Roosevelt" is in the works. Leonardo DiCaprio is slated to play the role of a young and spindly Teedie. SimonATL 02:29, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Theodore Roosevelt - Not Great? - Gimme a Break & TR Movie 

message: A small bit of historical trivia worth mentioning, you may be interested.  I would not consider this irrelevant minutae, and I would ask that a webmaster or editor add a sentence or two addressing this topic (perhaps a relevant picture as well?), as I do not trust my own internet and editing skills to even touch the Theodore Roosevelt page.  
I just wanted to share with you that I believe Theodore Roosevelt was the first president to be assigned full time protection detail by the United States Secret Service on a 24/7 basis.  This occured in 1902 in response to President William McKinley's assassination in 1901 (This can be confirmed at Wikipedia's Secret Service page).  In addition, while participating in an internship in the summer of 2006 at a Secret Service office, I noticed a great deal of old photographs of Theodore Roosevelt during his presidency with early 20th Century style federal agents (Secret Service agents no doubt) standing by his side.  However, prior to Roosevelt, President Cleveland was granted part-time protection from the Secret Service due to death threats made upon his family back in 1894.  Thus, Cleveland was technically the first president to have any official protection by the U.S. Secret Service, and Theodore Roosevelt was the first to be granted full time protection by the same agency. I received this information from "Moments in History, The United States Secret Service" by Donna R. Lohr U.S. Secret Service, published in PDF Format, no publication date could have been found.  If you ask for a copy I may be able to e-mail it. BScharlach 18:05, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  United States Secret Service 

message: For some bizzarre reason, the entire text, between "Presidential Firsts" and the 1912 election, while showing up in the edit code, is not showing up in the article.  I am going to attempt to correct this, but right now am completely clueless as to how this can be.  Unschool 01:01, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I figured it out.  Some editor was entering links prefaced and followed by the code < ref >, except there was no space between the sympbols and the "ref".  I had to place the spaces in there, or else everything else I wrote here would not show up.  Very strange.  Is this an old Wikipedia practice, or did they get the idea from some other wiki?   Unschool 01:57, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing Sections 

message: Some editors have announced that this painting was not put in the public domain. OK, but I got personal permission from Mort's Studio by email authorizing us to put this promotional graphic of his painting on "Great White Fleet Sails" on wikipedia. Isn't permission of the author enough?  Not only that, the graphic is a promotional one from Kunstler's Studio Web Site.SimonATL 17:38, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  No reason to remove Mort Kunstler painting 

message: If Uncle Ted was so affectionate towards is niece Eleanor then why didn't he make more efforts to ensure that she had a fuller childhood instead of one of insecurity, abandonment and aloneness? It seems that she was completely abandoned and was not given any major attention by the Roosevelt's until she returned from England in 1902. Apparently, the main significance he had in her life and is most remembered in her life for is having given the bride away to FDR in 1905. 11:24, 01 September 2006.
::TR was right in the midst of his rise in political power as president and pretty much filled with that aspect and the attention that came with it that he basked in. It seems to not had much in the way of close relationships with either Eleanor nor even his daughter Alice until adulthood. I'm not sure he knew how to relate to EITHER nice little girls like neice Eleanor or tough little rebels like Alice. SimonATL 21:53, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Niece Eleanor 

message: I've heard that Theodore Roosevelt once knife-fought a cougar. Can anyone verify that?
: While out West, probably hunting with a friend or supporter's his dogs, the dogs treed a cougar which lept down on the dogs. A great big fight ensured. TR was concerned that the cougar would seriously maime or kill the dogs, so jumped off his horse, waded thru the hunting dogs, kicking them out of the way until he reached the cougar and killed it with a hunting knife. See Edmund Morris and Other Biographies. SimonATL 21:53, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cougar Knife-Fight 

message: In 2006, a group of American high school students developed a 10 minute video on Roosevelt's conservation legacy with the help of Roosevelt scholar, Ed Renehan and Tweed Roosevelt. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCxf9eYWiaM
This article makes no mention of Roosevelt's racism against the Buffalo Soldiers. Indeed, the Rough Riders were a ragtag bunch of wealthy youngsters who did next to nothing; the Buffalo Soldiers did the lion's share of the fighting in that particular battle, and were given no credit by TR. Indeed, he actively derided and lied about them, telling the public that they had been cowards-- in contrast, of course, to the "brave" Rough Riders.
::Your point about the Buffalo Soldiers isn't factally sustainable. The same point was made within months of the Spanish American War. Theodore Roosevelt even added an appendix to his book "The Rough Riders" to discuss such notions. TR's own words below hardly manifest "hatred or derision" toward's the African-American "colored troops" as they were known at that time. Here's Roosevelt's own words. Where's the racism? Parenthesises are mine:
:::"The Tenth (African-American Buffalo Soldiers) Cavalrymen were deployed in support of the First (Regular Calvary), though they mingled with them in the assault proper; and so far as there was any difference at all in the amount of work done, it was in favor of the First. The statement that the Tenth Cavalry was better trained than the First, and rendered more valuable service, has not the slightest basis whatsoever of any kind, sort, or description, in fact. The Tenth Cavalry did well what it was required to do; as an organization, in this fight, it was rather less heavily engaged, and suffered less loss, actually and relatively, than either the First Cavalry or the Rough Riders. It took about the same part that was taken by the left wing of the Rough Riders, which wing was similarly rather less heavily engaged than the right and centre of the regiment.  Of course, this is a reflection neither on the Tenth Cavalry nor on the left wing of the Rough Riders. Each body simply did what it was ordered to do, and did it well. But to claim that the Tenth Cavalry did better than the First, or bore the most prominent part in the fight, is like making the same claim for the left wing of the Rough Riders. All the troops engaged did well, and all alike are entitled to share in the honor of the day."  Source: ["The Rough Riders"] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by SimonATL (talk • contribs) 21:35, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Excellent 10 minute video on TR and Conservation 

message: There are no sections on his being Governor of New York, or Vice President of the United States. Only a single paragraph used to segue from the Rough Riders section to the Presidency section.It seems we're overlooking two quite important offices (and the 1900 election), especially when other, minor, aspects of his life are covered in some detail. - Matthew238 01:40, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Governor and VicePresident 

message: the article talks of TR in radical ways. Yet he was a conservative. He said "the only true conservative is the one that looks to the future" and he also wrote letters to his friend and brother in law about "my style of conservatism" YankeeRoman(24.75.194.50 18:02, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes Roosevelt was a conservative but not in a reactionary old world way at all. He was more of a traditionalist. He felt that while some people rose to be the "ruling classes" or "patrician class," he felt that the best way to get to that point in society was by merit and not by wealth or privilege by itself.  He also was not adverse to change. He felt that one of the most unique aspects of the American Experience was the fact that the United States was a land of opportunity where someone could "make himself" into anything he had the talent, will and persistance to be.  He was NOT in favor of strict reactionary class distinctions at all.  His experience in the Badlands where he got to work with so-called "plain folks," ordinary ranchers and cowboys exposed him, for the first time, to the essential geniuis of the American experience where every man and woman had equal worth under the law and under the stars over the prairie.  As president he advocated a "square deal" which amounted to social justice and fundamental fairness between classes and between management and labor.  SimonATL 20:35, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  TR the Conservative 

message: I should welcome almost any war, for I think this country needs one. 
This was said in 1897 just before the start of the Spanish-American War. I think it's significant as it gives insight into his character. Richard Cane 23:49, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Where would you put it? Gdo01 23:51, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was thinking of just creating a quotes section and adding it there. However, I could put it in the Assistant Secretary of the Navy paragraph which is already small. Perhaps expand "Roosevelt was instrumental in preparing the Navy for the Spanish-American War" with "Roosevelt was instrumental in preparing the Navy for the Spanish-American War and was an enthusiastic proponant of testing the U.S. military in battle, at one point stating "I should welcome almost any war, for I think this country needs one" Richard Cane 00:32, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Sounds legitimate to me if you put it in a logical place, and have a source. Newyorkbrad 23:55, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll use these two links   since one has the quote in an easy to find page and the other provides the full context in a huge glob of text. Richard Cane 00:32, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anyone mind if I add this quote? 

message: "he pulled so many progressives out of the Republican party that it took on a much more conservative cast for the next generation."
The party was already conservative (reactionary actually), so was Teddy (he certain style of it anyway). He didn't pull anybody out. He also rejoined it during the wilson administration YankeeRoman(24.75.194.50 13:34, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It belongs because it's what historians agree on. (See Gould's history of GOP (2003) p. 192 for example--he's leading TR expert) TR pulled enough Republicans out that Wilson won election twice.  Rjensen 14:09, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And some of them stayed out; as is attested  by Harold L. Ickes, who was one of them. We should mention LaFollette, though. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:32, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Wiki's goal is to reflect the best historical scholarship--as represented by Gould and the others in the bibliography. Rjensen 11:26, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  This shouldn't be here 

message: Why use the nickname? Why also have GOP as a new Wiki-link when Republican has already appeared? It just causes non-American users to have to look it up to find out whether Teddy Roosevelt changed from being in the Republican Party to being in something called GOP? Shouldn't an encyclopedia use the proper names for things thoughout, or should articles about the Atlantic Ocean occasionally refer to it as the Pond and New York as the Big Apple just to make it interesting. JMcC 14:29, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: the term GOP is heavily used and is not sland or obscure; anyone interested in TR should become aware of that. reading Wiki is an educational experience. Rjensen 21:42, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  GOP 

message: This paragraph:
"Roosevelt understood the strategic significance of the Panama Canal, and negotiated for the U.S. to take control of its construction in 1904; he felt that the Canal's completion was his most important and historically significant international achievement. He was the first American to be awarded the Nobel Prize, winning its Peace Prize in 1906, for negotiating the peace in the Russo-Japanese War."
Why are these two things in the same paragraph? 
-- >FrozenFood< 05:26, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question 

message: Thanks Shadow2700, whoever you are. SimonATL 20:14, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thanks for the burial plot photo 

message: Roosevelt was hiking on Mount Marcy in the Adirondacks (not giving a speech in Vermont) when he learned McKinley was on his death bed.  Roosevelt was rushed by a series of stagecoaches to North Creek train station.  At the station, Roosevelt officially learned that he would be the next President of the United States.  From North Creek, he continued by train to Buffalo.  Please see"The Accession of President Roosevelt"  Do you think it could be changed?  Thank you.  Armandaia 19:38, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  McKinley's Death and the Journey to Buffalo - Correction? 

message: I was slightly disappointed to find that this article mentioned practically nothing about Roosevelt's belief of how the President should use the power of the office to be a leader of morality, enacted in what has been called the bully-pulpit.  I think some words on this subject are essential to the article as it spoke to his personal beliefs as well as how he acted as president.
Wazi 22:18, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bully Pulpit