Talk:Satu Mare County

message: in accordance with Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names) page,
paragraph 2.
 
The lead: The title can be followed in the first line by a list of alternative names in parenthesis: {name1, name2, name3, etc.}. Any archaic names in the list (including names used before the standardization of English orthography) should be clearly marked as such, i.e.: (name1 arch.). Relevant foreign language names[3] are permitted and should be listed in alphabetic order of their respective languages, i.e.: (Armenian: name1, Belarusian: name2, Czech: name3). Alternatively, all alternative names can be moved to and explained in a names section immediately following the lead. In this case, the redundant list of the names in the article's first line should be replaced with the following text: (known also by several alternative namesNames). Once such a section or paragraph is created, the alternative English or foreign names should not be moved back to the first line.
Definition
^ The geographic location is considered to have a single widely accepted English name in modern context (swaEn) if the following two conditions are satisfied simultaneously: 
The English-language encyclopedias (Encyclopedia Britannica, Columbia Encyclopedia and Encarta) consistently use this name in all articles where the corresponding location is mentioned in modern context.
This name obtains the largest number (75% or more of total hits considering all possible variants) of Google Scholar and Google Books hits (count only articles and books, not number of times the world is used in them) when searched over English language articles and books where the corresponding location is mentioned in modern context. If the name of the location coincides with the name of another entity, care should be taken to exclude inapropriate pages from the count.
internet hits returned 11.800 results of "Hargita county" and 154 000 results of "Harghita county". English encyclopedias consistently use the name "Harghita county"
there was a voting meant to settle this problem, concluded with 5 votes in favour of providing the HU names against 2. the relevancy of that vote is reduced to 7 people voting,
considering the relevancy of English Encyclopedias and Wikipedia naming conventions
i here by remove the names of hungarian administrative divisions provided as alternates for names of romanian administrative divisions from the lead of the article. refer to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names) for any debate on this matter Criztu 08:16, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names) 

message: Definetely not. Maramures is a historical region of the former KoH. Carei as a town of Maramures, must be kidding :) ... --fz22 21:36, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I personaly find this reference to historical regions useless, i would mention the current development region that Satu mare is assigned to. I may not be expert in the matter, but I know Maramures is a historical region of Romania. At least there is an informal region Maramures in Romania. Criztu 21:38, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  OK, then. The Romanian Maramures is an 80 years old "historical" region ;). And what about Romanians living in outside Romania Maramures?. Sure, I know, Maramures is not a historical region of Ukrain ;) --fz22 21:45, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There is a section called Historical regions of Romania. i dont see Partium listed there. I think Partium is a historical region of Hungary. but i cant find a  Historical regions of Hungary. perhaps u should start that article  Criztu 07:48, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Maramures 

message: I will explain my perception on the convention of Britannica about lead section, and what i consider it is being done to the articles about Administrative divisions of Romania on Wikipedia 
Britannica (as i assume it is safely a standard in encyclopedias) says the following about Satu Mare county (judet): Satu Mare judet (county), northwestern Romania. . So it offers the official name of Satu Mare county, and a Romanian word for county, judet. this means it is a thing of Romania. Britannica does the same with counties of Hungary : Szabolcs-Szatmár-Bereg megye (county), extreme northeastern Hungary, the official name of Szatmar and the Hungarian word for county, megye. this means it is a thing of Hungary.
what i think an editor formulating a Satu Mare County (, , )  is a county (judeţ) of Romania.  It lies in the historical regions Maramureş or Partium. The capital city is Satu Mare. Satu Mare features a significant ethnic minority of Hungarians.  does is propagating a "hungaricity" of a teritory of Romania.
In my view, anything pertaining to ethnicity of a teritory that does not have a status related to that ethnicity belongs to Demographics of the article. Criztu 17:12, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: if u put information about ethnicity of the population in Demographics section then yes, that information is useful, if u put information about ethnicity of the population in the Lead section then you are making Propaganda Criztu 18:31, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: it is my opinnion yes, and I will stick to the formulation of Britannica, and move information about ethnicity to Demographics. I read in the Wikipedia Naming Convention geographical names, that a Guide to settle the use of alternative names in lead section is under development, there are a few elements there that might solve this whole problem, i invite u to study that guide also Criztu 19:53, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  propaganda 

message: I think the Lead section of Satu Mare can lead to a formulation that would make the Lead NPOV. The fact Satu Mare has a significant hungarian minority could be considered a relevant feature for this county, and others like it. I think mentioning the Hungarian minority in the lead is NPOV and relevant, and will make the mention to the name by which hungarians refer to this county natural. I would formulate Satu Mare county of Romania, capital Satu Mare. The county has a significant Hungarian minority. Hungarians refer to Satu Mare with the name Szatmar. Thus providing the name by which Hungarians refer to the county does not have the weight of an alternative name in english sources. Criztu 18:47, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I also think the idea of an "alternative name in English sources" is a misinterpretation of policy. The alternative names convention is that, for toponyms, names in relevant foreign languages should be mentioned in the lead. This relevance is measured generally either by 1) the presence of a sizeable minority, 2) historical significance. If the toponym has an English name (i.e. Bucharest), then the native name should also be listed in the brackets, not because it's an alternative name "in English sources", but because it's the native name.  Ronline ✉ 08:42, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: the policy in providing alternative names in the lead section is ambiguous. This is what Wikipedia: Naming convention says about "a relevant foreign language name" "^ A relevant foreign language name is the one used by at least 10% of sources in English language or is used by a group of people which used to inhabit this geographical place." Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names) Criztu 15:58, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, so now it is "ambiguous"... Dahn 15:59, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Satu Mare county model

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thread_title:  External links modified