Talk:Rainer Maria Rilke

message: Added reference under 'Influences' but this is a somewhat superficial characterisation as the link to Heidegger is more essential, i.e. they are "ideologically concurrent". Perhaps this should be a new section or merged into the main article, but the point on Heidegger in 'Influences' is somewhat conspicuous. Suggestions?Tsop 05:57, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is altogether possible that Heidegger had absolutely no influence on Rilke. If it is asserted that there was an influence, it should be proven beyond doubt by the use of quotations and citations.Lestrade 12:01, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Where's Heidegger?

message: "Rilke is generally considered the German language's greatest poet of the 20th century. Though he never found a consistent verse form, his haunting images tend to focus on the problems of Christianity in an age of disbelief, solitude, and profound anxiety. He is generally placed in the camp of Modernist poets, though his religious dilemmas may set him apart from some of his peers.
He wrote in both verse and in a highly lyrical prose. His two most famous verse pieces are the Sonnets to Orpheus and the Duino Elegies; his two most famous prose pieces are the Letters to a Young Poet and the semi-autobiographical Notebooks of Malte Laurids Brigge."
:It's good to have a lead, but there are some problems with this one. I seriously don't think Rilke "focus on the problems of Christianity", neither was he a Modernist poet. In fact, his poetry is deliberately traditional - it may modern in its preoccupations, but not certainly of the Modernists in terms of technique. Mandel 03:09, Jun 13, 2005 (UTC)
:Rilke did focus on the problems of Christianity, and recurrently so - most impressively perhaps in the "Brief eines jungen Arbeiters". Dexter 04:57, July 9, 2005 (GMT)
::It's not clear enough what problems of Christianity he focus on.  Rilke can be said somewhat like a "pagan" poet, so it's misleading to say that he focus on Christianity (eg. the "angels" in Duino Elegies are not Christian angels; he repeated invoked Buddhism, classical Greek figures before the era of Christ etc.)  Did he attack the institution of Christianity?  Was it because he found Christianity wanting in this age of anxiety?  Or was it really because he was interested in the question of religion at large?
Rilke's mature thought, it should be hard to miss, is wholly, 
and even virulently, anti-Christian. No doubt his symbolist and transcendental concerns were influenced by the religion he was raised with, but his reaction against that religion was complete.
His angry rejection of the role of Christ in relations with the Divine (see the "Young Workingman's Letter") looks suspiciously 
like a desire to arrogate that role to himself; but, whatever you 
may think of it, his self-consciously UN-Christian stance is quite
unmistakable, and a major element in his vision. Fixlein (talk) 17:20, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Modernism is also a very precise term. Rilke is certainly not of the same school with Eliot and Pound, though he is definitely modern. Modern, not modernist. Mandel 09:48, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: This article lacks of an introductory text like the one it had in its first versions, i.e. :

message: Rilke was born and raised in what's now the Czech Republic, but it obviously wasn't the Czech Republic then.
However, looking at his bio here, it doesn't appear that he ever lived in a country called "Austria" either--by the time there was such an entity, he was living in Germany and then in Switzerland. Given that Austrian is not really an ethnicity, it seems odd to call him an Austrian if he never lived in Austria.
If we're identifying him by nationality, Austro-Hungarian is probably right--though I'm not sure that's a category.  By ethnicity, "German" is probably correct. Nareek 20:19, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think he was ethnically German. I'm not sure on the ethnicities of his parents, but I would guess they were largely Czech / Austrian. Strictly speaking, yes, Austrian is an ethnicity, but it does not include all regions of the Austrian Empire -- it only includes what is considered to be historical Austria. And saying that his nationality was Austro-Hungarian is a bit of a problem because, by the time of his death, that nation didn't even exist anymore. WWI-era Czechs would have claimed that he was Czech, whether or not he was ethnically Czech, because he was from Bohemia. I don't know offhand what his citizenship status was post WWI. And as far as I know, Rilke never wrote or said anything significant on his own national identity. Honestly, I would just leave it out -- it's really academic. - Che Nuevara 00:40, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  He was from a family belonging to the German-speaking minority from Prague (then some 1/4th of the city's population), mother's rich family was from Alsacia, father was from a poor family from Švábice. Prague German was said to be more preserved in a sort of archaic state of development, hence was better for the kind of hermetic poetry. Rilke spent the end of WW1 in Munich; for being a friend of the revolutionaries, he left for Zurich - the possibility of being deported from there vanished in May 1920 when Czechoslovakia gave him citizenship and passport which enabled him to travel again. However, I agree that, given his political views on various topics, citizenship was not something that mattered to him, let's say, metaphysically. --HTO (talk) 16:32, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

text: Well, it's quite simple. In the intro we mention a person's nationality. As Rilke was born in Prague which then was part of the Austrian part of the Austro-Hungarian empire, his nationality was Austrian. Whether he spent much of his life abroad is irrelevant. Donna Leon still is an American writer, although she has spent quite some time in other countries, and has been residing in Italy for nearly two decades or so. --Catgut (talk) 00:19, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Czech, Austrian...? 

message: I find the Works section is unhelpful for the following reasons:
* lack of titles in English
* most volumes of Rilke's poetry have been translated by multiple translators, so why is listing one or two translators helpful unless they are all listed?
I think translators/translations would fit in better if placed within the article for each specific work.  Does anyone have any objections or any other ideas for making this section clearer and more helpful? -- hibou 13:08, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Selection of works section 

message: He's not, maybe one of the greatest but not the greatest.
:Yup.  In any case, this is a huge instance of weasel wording, especially since it's in the first frickin' sentence.  Clearly not everyone agrees Rilke is Germany's greatest 20th century poet, so it's very important to know just who.  And likely that "who" is whoever wrote that.  If you've got any sort of evidence to back up the claim (e.g. "75% of German lit professors say he's..."), you can put that in instead.  But as it is now, it's gotta go. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 130.58.237.227 (talk) 01:39, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I confess I am a bit curious. I'm not disputing the assertion, but, I am made thoughtful by it. If Rainer Maria Rilke is not the greatest poet in the German language of the twentieth century, then who is? 70.31.46.131 (talk) 02:57, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "generally considered the German language's greatest 20th century poet." 

message: It would be great if someone could add the pronunciation of his name, for the ignorants of the world (like me!). Thanks.  --TotoBaggins 15:18, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation of name 

message: Rilke is regarded as one of the most famous poets in history. His poems are widely regarded as being of a superior quality. This is puzzling because he is almost totally unintelligible. It is not, however, generally permitted to make this statement.Lestrade (talk) 00:14, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fame and poetry

message: Rilke may be a notable poet with a considerable host of high brow admirers, but his Christian beliefs were offbeat resembling those of Dan Brown, and he may have been infected by the influence of the artist Auguste Rodin. Please read the book and article cited. 
Rodin's Christ and Mary Magdalene (1894):
http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/cas/fnart/rodin/rodin_magdalen1.jpg
Wfgh66 (talk) 14:49, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I would say that "infected" is a terrible choice of words, given the nature of religious belief. The quote seems to perpetuate its own agenda without adding much to the article. And I never read anything about this in Rilke's diary, which I read in German. But, it's cited, albeit by someone who seems to use Rilke to express her own mysticism surrounding the whole Mary Magdalen thing. Whatever. In any case, something like that doesn't belong in the lead of the article, so I moved it to the section "Rilke's literary style." Icarus of old (talk) 15:29, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, Haskins is not promoting "her own mysticism" in this case, she is simple repeating Rilke's religious beliefs as expressed in his poems, I urge you to read her book, as well as the article, which is available to those with JSTOR accounts. It's a good example of how beliefs about Jesus Christ can be generated by one's own wishful thinking just as much as from the accepted scholarly position. To my knowledge, there was no Christian sect that believed Jesus only became divine upon Crucifixion. This was Rilke's idiosyncratic invention. Rilke married one of Rodin's students, that's what influenced his religious beliefs according to both of the above authors. Wfgh66 (talk) 20:55, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I would maintain that Haskins is "supposing" from Rilke's poems, as one cannot obtain facts from poems, only "poetic truths." This kind of research is literary, but that does not maintain actual facts, only scholarly opinion. It would be like me saying that I know for a fact that Jack Gilbert hates women because of his poetic treatment of them, which is pure speculation at best. Icarus of old (talk) 03:18, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

text: Rilke's references to Jesus were contained in unpublished poems. That speaks volumes in itself. At least we can get away from the speculation that the author was "plugging her own mystical beliefs".I still recommend that you read the article and book cited, and the references contained therein relating to the friendship between Rilke and Rodin. Highbrow intellectuals do hold their own particular idiosyncratic interpretations of Christianity that do not match the positions held by scholars and clerics. There is nothing new or remarkable about this. Wfgh66 (talk) 11:14, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rilke's Christian beliefs 

message: "Rilke changed his first name from "René" to the more masculine Rainer at Lou's urging." This is nonsense. Now it may be nonsense that Lou Andreas-Salomé believed - I don't know so someone else will have to verify and change the wording accordingly. But as a matter of fact René is a perfectly common French masculine name. Renée would be feminine. Axel 00:36, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone has apparently removed that sentence, but now there is no explanation in the article of why he is known as Rainer rather than by his given name. Something should be done about that. Languagehat (talk) 20:24, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  René 

message: When I came across Germanotta's (Lady Gaga) use of a Rilke quote in the mainstream press, I became intrigued and  the following reference to her article:
:The quote is:"Lady GaGa poetisch tätowiert"  "[Erforschen Sie den Grund, der Sie schreiben heißt;] prüfen Sie, ob er in der tiefsten Stelle Ihres Herzens seine Wurzeln ausstreckt, gestehen Sie sich ein, ob Sie sterben müßten, wenn es Ihnen versagt würde zu schreiben. Dieses vor allem: Fragen Sie sich in der stillsten Stunde Ihrer Nacht: muss ich schreiben?", Letter from Rilke to Franz Xaver Kappus , Paris, 17 February 1903;English: "Confess to yourself in the deepest hour of the night whether you would have to die if you were forbidden to write. Dig deep in to you heart, where the answer spreads its roots in your being, and ask yourself in solemnly, must I write?"
This was  as "absolutely unnecessary".
Generally, I like these kind of items relating to popular culture to appear in the articles of popular culture, but seeing that it has been removed there and now been , maybe it could be mentioned. I'm still ambivalent about it, but maybe there is general interest. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 13:51, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, I feel it is important. Lady Gaga is (arguably) one of the most significant people alive on this planet. Her tattoo being placed on his arm is definitely worthy.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.94.240.194 (talk) 05:46, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Ahem …  quote was tattooed on  arm. If this is to be mentioned, it should be on her article, because it says more about her than him. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 11:52, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It might have some bearing if Rilke is a major influence in her life. People pick up random tattoo quotes and images from all over the place. The tatoo artist may have suggested it; maybe she was drunk. If more could be unearthed about the Gaga/Rilke relationship it maybe worth revisiting. Span (talk) 14:16, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Lady Gaga's Rilke quote

message: I removed this from the article because (a) it detracts from Rilke's list of works and (b) there's just too damn many translations and more coming every day. --ColonelHenry (talk) 17:27, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: removing list of translations, revision 09FEB13

message: BACKSTORY: User:RGloucester edited the article twice to call Rilke "a German Bohemian poet and novelist" and then revised it to describe him as "an Austrian poet and novelist of German Bohemian origin". The previous versions described him as "a Bohemian-Austrian poet and novelist."  These two comments below are from my talk page, I moved them here for germaneness (no pun intended) to this article and to center this ongoing discussion here.  Please obtain a consensus that is both historically and ethnically accurate, and I hope this doesn't turn into a petty squabble like the lengthy intransigent battle on whether Armenia was a European country or an Asian country.
===Comments moved from ColonelHenry's talk page===
"German Bohemian" does not refer to the state. It refers to the ethnicity. It is the term for those Germans from Bohemia. Rilke is one of those. It has absolutely nothing to do with the German Reich. "Austrian" as an ethnicity did not exist until after the fall of the Empire. Previously, they what we now call Austrians would've referred to themselves as Germans. Regardless, Rilke was a German Bohemian. Bohemia was never part of the German state, which only arose in 1871 anyway. RGloucester  (talk) 19:10, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: * And it is not entirely accurate to describe an Austrian of German, Polish, Slavic and Jewish descent, who didn't identify as German.--ColonelHenry (talk) 20:47, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

text: * I would have no problem with "an Austrian poet of German Bohemian origins" if it were an improvement in overall accuracy. However, it is not. By trading the current text for this is trading one partially correct label for another partially correct label.  German Bohemian isn't his only ethnic origin.  I admit, I'm not happy with "Austrian-Bohemian", but if several scholars use it in their quick descriptions, it's good enough for the interim until we figure out a better way of labeling his ethnic background in a historically accurate, comprehensive, and uncluttered way.  I doubt "an Austrian poet of German Bohemian, Slavic, and Jewish origins" would be an aesthetically-acceptable summary.--ColonelHenry (talk) 03:25, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rilke as a Bohemian-Austrian poet or an Austrian of German Bohemian ethnicity?? 

message: "German Bohemian" does not refer to the state. It refers to the ethnicity. It is the term for those Germans from Bohemia. Rilke is one of those. It has absolutely nothing to do with the German Reich. "Austrian" as an ethnicity did not exist until after the fall of the Empire. Previously, they what we now call Austrians would've referred to themselves as Germans. Regardless, Rilke was a German Bohemian. Bohemia was never part of the German state, which only arose in 1871 anyway. RGloucester  (talk) 19:10, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: * And it is not entirely accurate to describe an Austrian of German, Polish, Slavic and Jewish descent, who didn't identify as German.--ColonelHenry (talk) 20:47, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

text: * I would have no problem with "an Austrian poet of German Bohemian origins" if it were an improvement in overall accuracy. However, it is not. By trading the current text for this is trading one partially correct label for another partially correct label.  German Bohemian isn't his only ethnic origin.  I admit, I'm not happy with "Austrian-Bohemian", but if several scholars use it in their quick descriptions, it's good enough for the interim until we figure out a better way of labeling his ethnic background in a historically accurate, comprehensive, and uncluttered way.  I doubt "an Austrian poet of German Bohemian, Slavic, and Jewish origins" would be an aesthetically-acceptable summary.--ColonelHenry (talk) 03:25, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments moved from ColonelHenry's talk page

message: Can someone post the relevant sections from the source used in support of the claim ‘In the United States, Rilke is one of the more popular, best-selling poets—along with 13th-century Sufi mystic Rumi and 20th-century Lebanese-American poet Khalil Gibran’?  I don't think Rilke is that well-known here. The source is Rilke in America: A Poet Re-Created by Kathleen Komar. Esszet (talk) 02:29, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rilke in the US 

message: I'm particularly skeptical about the claim that his mother dressed him in girls' clothes because of gender issues. It was in fact standard for the Austro-Hungarian middle classes to dress young boys in dresses until they reached a certain age, after which they began wearing pants. Maybe the cited source provides further evidence, but the picture of a boy in a dress simply shows that he was a bourgeois boy of that time and place.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.134.193.84 (talk) 09:16, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The source given is pretty strong. It features an excerpt from the biography The life of the poet: Rainer Maria Rilke  By Ralph Freedman who is emeritus professor of comparative literature at Princeton. If you wish to discuss alternative sources, please list them on this talk page. Thanks Span (talk) 16:59, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Clothes

message: No discussion of his attitudes towards Jews? Didn't he object to Karl Kraus as having a "unrepeatable difference", which the Sidonie Nadherna entry describes as referring to "his Jewish heritage". 14.0.174.140 (talk) 11:33, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I doubt it worth discussing.  Although I've seen one review harshly accusing Rilke of being anti-semitic (https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/longterm/books/reviews/rilke.htm), I discount that review as being entirely out of balance on several other aspects of Rilke's life.  I've also seen in-depth examinations of the question such as (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1996/04/to-work-is-to-live-without-dying/376572/) that address the claim extensively and rule it out.  Note also that Rilke's beloved academic sponsor and many of his friends were Jewish. Harborsparrow (talk) 15:53, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anti-semite

message: Section Duino and the First World War (1911–1919) includes, without elaboration, the sentence "From 1914 to 1916 he had a turbulent affair with the painter Lou Albert-Lasard." "Lou" in English is normally a masculine name, usually short for "Louis", which implies that this was a homosexual affair. The article reveals that  Lou Albert-Lasard was a woman. Shouldn't this be made clear in the text?
--Thnidu (talk) 20:03, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  His lover Lou was a woman 

message: This address in Prague is curious to me.  Herrengasse is German for "Street of the Lords" or "Lords Lane", and exists in Vienna, Graz, and Bern, and so maybe many other cities as well. The Lords referred to proximity of the nobles' residences to the castle.  If Herrengasse in Prague was renamed to Panská 8, the location of Panska 8 is across the river, not next to the Castle.  The Golden lane in Prague, IS next to the Castle, and WAS home to writers Kafka and Seifert.  Can you see where Prague common knowledge would require further documentation about the location of Rilke's childhood ?
SalineBrain (talk) 05:40, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Herrengasse (Panská) 8 

message: She is so important that he dedicates his elegies to her, and he may not have heard the voice that inspired him to write his first elegy if he was not invited to stay at her castle. How did Rainer meet Princess Marie?
Edit: I found a book of recollections on Rainer by Princess Marie, perhaps it can be found there.
CalebSohSweeKai (talk) 09:08, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  How did Rainer meet Princess Marie? 

message: No mention that he is the first to ever translate Lao Tzu? 79.106.203.80 (talk) 08:17, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lao Tzu