Talk:Wii/Archive 12

message: If anyone is going to ask this question, don't even bother -- the answer is no and we've discussed this aspect of the article countless times and time again. times.  See the Talk archives (pages 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, and 11) and the "Move to Nintendo Wii" survey for all the gory details.  It is just "Wii", and "Wii" alone.
--Stratadrake 06:12, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Don't you mean "Nintendo Wii"?

message: I can't edit, because I have no account... but "November" is misspelt in the release date portion of the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.214.11.205 (talk • contribs) .
:Thanks for the tip. I suggest creating an account, if only to correct typos. Every little bit is helpful for us! -- ReyBrujo 04:10, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Typo

message: As per WP:CITE, even stuff that is "common knowledge" needs to cited, so I put some of the references back in. I think excess citations should go as well, so I tried to expunge a few... RN 07:31, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I keep thinking that 33 citations (current) is a lot for the actual amount of content..We don't need to cite everything, use your discretion and common sense. Still I suppose once the hardware is released the page citation count will become more normal.HappyVR 11:23, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations 

message: I don't like sounding like a broken record, but the information that keeps getting reinserted into the sensor bar section is, if not factually incorrect, then unverified and unsourced. No report since E3 that I have read has claimed that the "sensor" bar does any actual sensing, and in fact, they support the opposite: the Remote has the sensor which tracks the LEDs in the bar. Whether or not the sensor bar can detect the Remote's position in space has been discussed at length, and there seemed to be an agreement that it was pure speculation without any concrete evidence.
In addition, it has not been established that the sensor bar is incompatible with more than four Wii Remotes. Following the logic that the sensor bar could potentially be used with devices other than the Wii Remote, the sensor bar could also be used with consoles other than Wii, which may not be restricted to four Remotes. I am not aware of any source that has stated that the four Remotes maximum has anything to do with the sensor bar. Dancter 09:13, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So, I've been trying to find references that can reliably affirm that the spatial location of the Wii Remote can be detected, and couldn't find one. Everything source I could find for it was just speculating. In fact, it seems all the information that claims that Nintendo actually said something about it traces back to this article, which provides an alleged quote. The article doesn't say where it got the quote, and I don't trust the site enough to take the author's word for it. Dancter 19:26, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What about Duck Hunt?  Several outlets reported Duck Hunt being playable at E3, which would require being able to tell where the Wiimote is pointing. Ace of Sevens 21:47, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Where on screen it is pointing, yes. Its location in physical space, no. That is what I'm disputing. Dancter 21:56, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Since it isn't a lightgun, the only way the system could know where on screen it was pointing is to know its location in physical space. Ace of Sevens 02:06, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't really want to confuse terms like lightgun, but for brevity's sake, the article I mentioned before does compare the technology of the Wii Remote to that of a particular high-end brand of lightgun. There are some details I think it gets wrong, but the basic principles seem to be well-supported by other sources. The discussions in the talk pages I linked to at the beginning of this topic could also provide some of the background against which I have formed my opinion. Granted, this whole thing could probably be resolved with some good-enough references. If you can find better ones than I have, please share them. Dancter 02:57, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You may not have seen any references 'proving' this but I sure haven't seen any disproving it so we should at least say that its likely (at least highly possible) that the sensor bar can do this. I mean it can't be done anyother way as the system could be set up anywhere so that can't do it.--210.15.254.45 05:01, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What can't do it? Are you talking about the technology described in the XGAMING article? Can you be more specific? Actually, there are plenty of pages saying that the controller's position in space can be detected, and quite a few pages saying that it can't. I just happen to find the ones that say it can less convincing. Like I mentioned, if you read the links I've referred to, as well as this and this, it's been discussed extensively how the sensor bar works, as well as what can be accomplished with the technologies that have been revealed. It is entirely possible to do all the things that have been demonstrated for the Wii Remote without direct detection of spatial position. If you have read the material and still disagree, please address the specific points here. Dancter 05:48, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I think it's an appropriate question. Given what is known, the sensor bar probably doesn't automatically demarcate the boundaries of the screen, and must be initially calibrated to any new screen it is being used with. I do agree, though, that for sensing purposes, a second bar would make more sense, but there is no evidence at all of it. The controller seems to work well enough with just one. Dancter 23:28, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They were all just using one at E3? MrVoluntarist 00:08, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just one. Dancter 00:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for clarifying that!  This is actually one of the most polite responses I've gotten on a talk page in a while.  Anyway, if I was wondering about this when reading, I suspect others were.  Do you think a clarification that there is no second bar would be a justified addition to that section, or would it be redundant? MrVoluntarist 00:25, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I try, but I admit I don't always manage to stay as polite as I'd like. I'm sorry to hear that some of your other interactions have not been as polite. As for your question, while I do feel the need to clear up possible misconceptions about the sensor bar, I'm not comfortable about expanding too much on the sensing stuff, as I don't think there is currently source material good enough to back it up. Not enough to speak with authority, anyway. There is a bit of "reading into" required to make sense of the info that's out there right now, and that's somewhat of a no-no for Wikipedia articles. Dancter 01:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Alright, I guess that's reasonable.  Just for reference, someone recently told me to "go away" in an edit note, another person lied about my previous edits, another told me that asking a question similar to the above was "inappropriate" for the talk page and that I should "go to gamefaqs", and more.  So, this actually some of the more civil treatment I've gotten. MrVoluntarist 02:08, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

text: The controller uses both, but for different purposes. Bluetooth for communicating with the console, infrared for pointer tracking with the sensor bar. Don't know if I can dig up the sources right now, though. Dancter 18:41, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Pretty dang certain that the article used to have the citation for that section pointing to . It specifically mentions that the controller uses Bluetooth. Did someone remove the citation for some reason? -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 18:40, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  sensor bar 

message: :Indeed. Someone went and  messe up the headings as well. The hardware stuff is now inexpeciably under the heading "release date and prices". Don't know how that went unchecked... :O -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 20:49, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Arrr, it was actually one of your edits, Dancter. A ref tag unclosed or something. I'm trying to figure it out, but I'm not having such a good time of it... -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 20:55, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It was a comment tag whose end you accidently chopped off. All is good. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 20:57, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks like I may have messed up more than just that. I need to take a look at it, but something weird happened there... Dancter 21:02, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The launch titles section is missing for one thing.  The article seems a little "off" overall, but I'm having a hard time pinpointing where and how things are messed up. Danny 21:04, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Shoot, you may be right. I still think it can be pinned down to Dancter's last edit, as the revision before that is fine. Likely another chopped off tag, or a table that doesn't end/start, or something. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 21:06, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Spoke too soon, Dancter outright removed that section (why?). I don't see anything else wrong, but I don't know. Try comparing the two revisions where it broke. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 21:09, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think I'm being bitten by that Firefox/Google Toolbar bug. I thought I had disabled the Toolbar, but when I compare changes before committing the edits, things are going missing. I'm thinking I probably shouldn't touch the article until I can remedy this. I only intended a minor wording change, really. Dancter 21:12, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I had no idea that such a bug existed. Bizzare :\ -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 21:15, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, I compared and the missing section was the only problem I could find (I've re-inserted it), it just made everything "look" different from my end. Danny 21:20, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

text: This is the bug I was referring to, just in case you were curious. Dancter 22:11, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the link. Could be useful in the future if I see similiar things happening to other contributors. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 23:24, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Okay, I tried my best to restore everything. Sorry about the name stuff, Danny. I took the version just before my bad edit, and did all the modifications I was aware of to that using another browser. I hadn't noticed your recent edit, so that's why it changed back. Does everything look okay, now? I worry I may still have missed something. Dancter 21:42, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It all looks okay to me. All the important stuff appears to be present. RE name: Don't worry about it, I didn't realize you were still making corrections. In fact, I think shortening the opening was more beneficial than shortening the name section for now anyway. Danny 22:02, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: edit issues

message: This should be obvious but nominating Wii to be a good article is a really dumb idea. Very, very unstable. Protected from recent vandalism, a "citation needed" sticking out in the lead section, and of course, it's not even been released yet. There is no way this page is going to look even remotely the same next year. So yeah, wait a while (a long while) before trying to get this pegged as a FA or GA. --SeizureDog 21:07, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, who even nominated this?  Even with all the work done to it, it cannot be considered a good article until all the facts are revealed and/or the console launches.  Right now we basically have information that often rides on the edge of speculation (i.e. November 6th.) Good intent by whomever brought this up, but premature until probably September when Nintendo is apparently going to tell all. Danny 21:15, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I beleive the GA attempted was a long time ago, before alot of information was release when it was fairly stable.  Unless there was a new attempted and then I say, "what were you thinking?" along with you.Sir hugo 13:27, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think it should be resubmitted at all until at least a couple months after the console release, when it will have had widespread reaction and impact that can be documented (and is not specualtion.) Grandmasterka 22:11, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Failed GA

message: I added an external link to www.wiiwave.com , but Maxamegalon2000 removed it because he suggested  I should bring it up here first. I would like your views and comments it, please! It's a good site which I've found, it has a decent google return for "wii" and it has factual information and almost daily news. So whad ya'll say?
huntersquid 20:39, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The site doesn't have as much stuff in as say theWiire, so at present I'd say no.HappyVR 21:05, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not going to replace theWiire's link, but I have to say that they recently changed their name about a week ago from revogaming to wiiwave, so none of the old content has been moved and they're still getting to normal running status huntersquid 21:15, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

text: It doesn't add anything that the other sites don't already cover.  The point of External Links is for beneficial "further reading" not a collection of all links related to Wii. Danny 21:56, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly. Also, heads up. Besides, the forum has very few members or posts, and the site has little if any original content (while Wiire has a lot of members and original interviews and the like). I honestly think we should limit fansites to one or two (currently we've three), and this site isn't remarkable enough to warrant replacing or adding to the others. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 23:48, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That the thread linked by Consumed Crustacean is titled "Advertising Wiiwave" closes the debate for me.  A site's quality and content should be its own advertising. --Maxamegalon2000 02:18, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed. WiiWave is a tiny site with nothing new to offer. I'm strongly opposed to adding it. Ritarri 11:05, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Links

message: Is there a Wiiki (Wii wiki)?  If not...there really should be :-D. It's just asking to be made.  Someone owns wiiki.com but I don't think it has to do with the wii.  If anyone knows of a wiiki, I'd love to know about it. Chris M. 03:48, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds like some kind of joke.  A category and numerous articles I can understand, but a whole wiki?  Rofl.  --Stratadrake 06:26, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not unlikely. Galactic Civilizations 2 has a Wiki that a developer started; Spore has two fan-started Wikis; there are Wikis devoted to Star Trek; etc. That is, unless you mean a wiki specifically from WikiMedia. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 06:32, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Not exactly related to the article, but anyway there is this (a old copy of this page, but perhaps that wiki allows more then this) RN 07:53, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

text: The Spore related Wiki I admin  has a lot of content, I'm sure the Wii would have enough, especially with all the virtual console stuff, it would be cool :). Chris M. 07:09, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wiiki 

message: I've added a request for this page to be semi-protected (again) at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection. HappyVR 16:29, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Was there alot of vandalism lately or was it just a temp thing?  I really dont like protections at all since most dedicated vandals will have accounts anyway.Sir hugo 13:31, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

text: No kidding, it seemed as soon as we had semi-protection the time before this one, more "registered" users started adding crap than did the non-registered ones.  Add in the fact there were a number of legit edits from non-registered users before, and the semi-protection doesn't really seem to help. Danny 17:01, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I disagree. we have to find a way to keep newly registered users from editing this article. Perhaps the semi protection is flawed in some way. New registered users should not be able to edit this page. Also, can anyone here check the history to make sure the new registered users edited this page for the better, and did not simply remove/add stuff just for the hell of it? I saw alot of page moves in the history, and i'm worried. dposse 19:01, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Semi protection

message: "Nintendo has also confirmed in a Spanish interview that other games could be downloaded to the DS, such as small games like Sudoku, and that they might allow Virtual Console games to be downloaded to the DS."
It seems fairly clear from the translated interview that the named nintendo official is only politely speculating on future possibilities in response to interview questions.HappyVR 17:36, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not really confirmed. Quote from translation: "He does go on to say that small games could be downloaded like Sudoku etc". Taking this as read - it's a possibilty that games like soduku could be downloaded.HappyVR 21:00, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: On wii.nintendo.com (official wii website), it says that the Wii will use local wireless to connect to the DS. The Wii might also serve as a "Home DS Download Station."69.183.35.194 03:43, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: ds connectivity

message: Removed "The company appears to be already manufacturing final retail units of the Wii, according to a June 21st analyst's note from P.J. McNealy of American Technology Research. That would give it a significant head start over Sony (Charts), which has yet to begin final manufacturing of the PlayStation 3. Microsoft's first Xbox 360 did not roll off the assembly line until 69 days before the on sale date of November 22, 2005. (That late start in production is the root cause behind last holiday's shortages.) "October is a reasonable timeframe," wrote McNealy. Nintendo has downplayed any suggested dates. Other industry insiders, who asked not to be named, though, said they, too, are expecting a September or October launch for the Wii."
The guy's guessing isn't he.HappyVR 20:17, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: P J Mc Nealy

message: (moved to bottom)
The Wii Remote or Wiimote has been renamed to the WiiPointer.  I've changed to that.
added by User:Gopherdabills moved to here byHappyVR 13:38, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wiimote was never an official name for it. Fans made it up. Mythi 12:24, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: WiiPointer

message: Isnt zelda announced as a game taht comes with the release date? didnt they say they release xelda twilight princess to both consoles on wiis release date? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zelos (talk • contribs) 
:The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 20:16, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's quite interesting - I'd almost forgotten that - maybe it's worth mentioning in passing in the introduction?HappyVR 21:13, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Zelda 

message: I was scrounging around and whattala, I found this with a pic! Add it in (picture) or wait for the confirmation from Nintendo?--Signor 02:53, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wait for confirmation, a blog entry about a forum post is not really the best reliable source. -- ReyBrujo 03:04, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that confirmation from Nintendo or from one of the External Links is needed.  --EmmSeeMusic 09:12, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I don't think we need to wait for a direct confirmation by Nintendo, but we need something more reliable than this. Even the individual who took the picture cautions against drawing conclusions. Dancter 03:25, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

text: It could be anything. It could just be part of the visual design, it could be something to let the console stick to its stand, it could be an expansion port, it could be photoshopped and so on. An incredibly speculative blog article doesn't help find out which it is. That would be an odd place for an expansion port, though... -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 07:32, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The gamecube has several ports on the bottom. That one could have similar uses. Jaxad0127 09:06, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, but this isn't on the bottom. Hence my saying that it's odd; would an extension be plugged in sideways, rather than sitting the console on top of it? It's all speculation, though, since it could be anything. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 09:22, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you scroll to the bottom of that forum post, you'll come across this image which allegedly comes from the European patent office. If someone wants to dig up the patent that contains that image, we can probably be fairly certain that it's an expansion port. -- Masamunecyrus(talk)(contribs)  12:52, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That image doesn't really resemble the thing in question. I don't have a clue what it is, but I suppose it might be an image of a  prototype console or something. Besides that, the red is at least 50% of the area of the side of that design, while the marking in the actual Wii image is extremely small. The author is stretching it a bit. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 02:22, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

text: It might be a type of E-reader like the GBA's, or a new USB. I got this little card slot for my laptop and it came with a card. Maybe it's sort of like that. --D-hyo 14:51, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  A new Port on Wii 

message: Has the $250 price been confirmed? Due to the fact that the other next-gen systems are a little pricy (X-Box 360: $300+ and PS3: $600), this will be the only next-gen system I can afford (as of now). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sasuke-kun27 (talk • contribs) 
:I'm fairly certain it's been confirmed that it will be $250 or lower (can't recall the source), but the specific price hasn't been confirmed yet. It will be the cheapest of the three though, and the games will likely be as well. Not very articley though, especially until everything is solid. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 07:48, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, it was said that it would be <$250 (although $249.99 is technically under $250). Also said that games shouldn't cost more than $50 as opposed to PS3 or Xbox 360 titles. --Twile 05:26, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Price 

message: Name must be moved up and must include information on the reaction to the name, the name change, etc. Mythi 19:41, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Why? It's fairly minor. The only reason to move it up would be to extoll on Nintendo's marketing platform (yay, marketing!), or to feed the anti-Nintendo trolls. The console itself is far more important. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 19:49, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Excuse me, but the name reaction was HUGE, positive and mostly negative. If we are to respect the neutral point of view of the article, we must include it. The PS3 article includes comments about the price, so why here? -- ReyBrujo 20:04, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was commenting on the positioning of it. I agree that there needs to be some more criticism of the name in that section. I just don't think it should be at the top above the hardware information and whatnot. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 20:08, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Worse than in the PS3 case, where it is in the leading, can't be ;-) Controversy sections should go to the bottom; as you said, the article should focus on the hardware. But so far most attempts to add such section have been reverted, dunno why. -- ReyBrujo 20:23, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

text: The PS3's price is mentioned near the top because it is relevant to the console's launch, just like how the Wii's (potential) price is also mentioned near the top, along with the rest of the launch details.  --Stratadrake 07:32, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I think it is stupid to say wii is pronounced like "wee," which is slang for urine. I didn't even realize that and have never heard of the before. DrSatan 01:59, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name 

message: Please comment on the recent chunk of changes I made to these sections. I'm hoping that I didn't "read between the lines" too much. Really hoping, since I'm generally all for keeping speculation away as much as possible. It all adds up so nicely, especially considering the Light gun article. At least mentioning that the controller has its own accelerometers should be in there somewhere. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 05:01, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ItIsMe fixed some of the issues I had with what I added in the sensor bar section, but the request still stands just incase. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 07:34, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you did a decent job cleaning up the controller content. I made a change or two here and there. I did remove one statement, as I believe it to be a mistake on IGN's part. If the sensor bar "features two sensors, one on each end," why must the pointer "identify the sensor bar and mark its two coordinates"? It seems to me that IGN was confusing things. It conflicts with information in the Anandtech article, which states that the sensor bar is purely for the infrared. Dancter 15:51, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I reworded the last sentence if you want to check it out. -- Masamunecyrus(talk)(contribs)  17:52, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's less wordy, but part of the reason I worded that sentence the way I did is because I really don't think there is a strong case for the "location in 3D space" theory at all, and I didn't want it to be implied otherwise. It's unnecessary for any of the functions that have been indicated so far. Optical mice and lightguns can't detect their location, but if you shift them a few inches or degrees to the left, the system can still figure out where your cursor or character should be compared to where they were before. Frankly, I don't like having the sentence at all, but someone really wants it there, so I'm trying to compromise. Dancter 19:18, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Indeedy, that's why I linked to a particular section in the lightgun article, the one that talks about the method that newer arcade machines use with infrared LEDs (the part you refer to was added by the contributor before me). IGN also speculated that the controller might be used as a camera, which is a pretty odd conclusion. They're just nutty. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 17:59, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was reading Light gun section you linked to in the article. That's new, isn't it? I don't remember that info being there when I was working on all the Wii Zapper and Duck Hunt news. It's pretty cool. I think I'd done pretty well trying to piece together how it works on my own, but that provided me with some new insights. I wish it were cited, though. Perhaps I'll ask the contributor to see if they can provide some sources. Dancter 17:50, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have asked, but since the user wasn't registered it's very possible that they'll never hear it. There is one gun whose website I can find that uses this technology. According to this excerpt from a Wired review, it seems to do what the Wii does but in reverse: you mount the camera by the television and the LEDs are on the controller. EDIT: second product, more information; this one seems to work somewhat like the Wii one, but there are two LED bars that are placed on the sides of the screen to define its area (and probably reduce the complication of the needed calculations). I'll see if I can find any more, and more solid sources, though I'll probably forget. I googled LCD lightgun OR "light gun" -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 18:03, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, that's a shame. I would have to say, though, the TopGun technology seems to be the most analogous to the pointer feature. The videos on the product page are pretty interesting. Dancter 18:32, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Also, considering the anandtech link you just put out, should that be used as a reference to further reword the sensor bar section? Or would that be too close to speculation? I mean, taking into account the light gun article, it makes perfect sense. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 17:59, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, what frustrates me is that we have quite a bit of information, and I think how everything works is pretty clear, but given the general quality of each individual source, it's difficult to keep the content readable and understandable without synthesizing and intrpreting the information, picking and choosing which facts from which articles are reliable. That doesn't seem quite right to me. So far I've leaned on the conservative side, keeping stuff out that is probably safe, but not directly attributable. I don't think that has worked too well, as I find myself spending considerable time trying to defend my removal actions here. I'm considering easing up on my hard-line interpretation of WP:NOR. I say give it a shot. We can always change it if it doesn't work. Dancter 19:18, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Honestly, leave it to IGN to confuse things that should be relatively simple. The part I removed, for instance, on the camera capabilities and "megapixel imagery" of the controller. (Just because it's IR/light sensitive doesn't mean it can or will act like a camera; how many lightguns do you know of that do?). Blar :/. I can't really comment on how close we'd be verging on violating WP:NOR, though, since I feel like falling asleep on my keyboard right now. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 01:14, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Changes to the controller and sensor bar sections 

message: I added the 30 hours for precision aim part under the controller heading. You use the IGN source to put the 60 hour info on, but didn't mention the 30 hour part or why it would last each amount of time. DrSatan 23:44, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Battery length 

message: It seems like Wii SDK will be so cheap it could be affordable by individual users. This should be noted since this is going to provide a plethora of low-cost homemade games (not necessarly bad looking)!
It's definetly bad I couldn't find a link on this on nintendo's website. I just hope they get it fixed after release.
MaxDZ8 talk 07:06, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, Nintendo has said that the Wi-Fi service could be used fro distributing user-made content. Jaxad0127 07:33, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Depends on the "individual user". http://www.warioworld.com/apply/wii.html (Wii developer application) says that prices can be expected to range from $2 500 to $10 000, while http://www.warioworld.com/apply/gcn.html (Gamecube developer application) says $10 000 to $20 000. Obviously not definitive, but it gives you can idea. They've never been incredibly open to just anyone applying, but that may change. Also, the hardware page says "[The Virtual Console] also will be home to new games conceived by indie developers whose creativity is larger than their budgets.". It's not article-worthy though. I can find sources for the SDK's price, but they're all pretty shaky. http://www.wogaming.com/news/717.html http://www.wiisworld.com/wii-news/wii-sdk-is-cheap.html http://www.n-insanity.com/modules.php?module=article&id=1498 and so on. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 08:00, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Eck, that's a really good point. I wouldn't be surprised if they required some example of prior work for indies who want to buy the SDK. There were one or two indie games on the Gamecube that I recall, but they came from studios that had a history of pretty good games. I don't know of any that came from complete unknowns, unless perhaps there was strong support from a major publisher. But yeah, as I said before there's nothing worthy of including in the article yet. The furthest we could go is mentioning that the SDK is expected to be cheaper than the Gamecube's, but the sources for that are so weak that it probably wouldn't pass WP:V. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 20:10, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Something along that line would probably be for the best. Danny 16:39, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Price, but for a different way 

message: The article mentions that even its publishers joked on the fact that very little people were happy with new name, yet there is absolutely nothing in the article about why did so much people not like the name. Is there really nothing encyclopedic to be written about the naming itself (as in how are people in general viewing it, not only the developers)? Shinhan 18:16, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There is a mention of it here, with a link to a Wikinews article on the reveal. Jaxad0127 18:30, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yep, it's a weak section. Mythi 20:50, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Given all the controversy among editors, the section was eventually cut.  If you can find a mature way of writing about it, please bring it here.  Maybe we'll agree that it could be re-added. Ladlergo 23:18, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I noticed that someone recently put in a refrecne to urine in the critisism section. I would like to have some opinions if that should be kept or not. 70.48.174.198 01:54, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  No Naming Controversy? 

message: the new gaming system called Nintendo Wii is rather funny.
i am native and in my culture, the term "wii" actually means "big"
thus, if one were to talk about this system with anyone of Gitsxan heritage from BC in Canada, they will think that the new gaming system is rather a pompous name for a console.
either that, or its just a coincidence that they picked a funny name like 
Nintendo Big.
haha. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 205.250.238.58 (talk • contribs) .
:Actually, It is called Wii not Nintendo Wii.67.71.78.101 03:35, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Haha. That's pretty funny to me for some reason. Everyone seems so serious here, and here comes a nice comment. Big doesn't sound "too" bad of a name for a system anyway... DrSatan 05:29, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Maybe it's another reason Nintendo chose the name.  "Big" doesn't just mean "large," it has different meanings, like in "Superman Returns is a big movie," emphasizing the notability, the popularity, the ubiquitousness of the movie.  So if Wii is "big" in that sense, then the name will fit.--the ninth bright shiner talk 23:11, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  that word means something else to me.... 

message: I'm not sure whether this is a confirmed or unconfirmed game, but I think it should be included somewhere on the page.
Sadness (video game)
Jasontheperson 03:36, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is not the page for linking to all upcoming Wii games.  The only ones that are listed here are notable for their launch release date, their franchise status, or for the amount of hype they have received.  Sadness fits none of the above. Ladlergo 23:16, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sadness Game 

message: I think it is best to discuss if there should be a reference to urine in the critisim section. Can people please share their thoughts on this issue. 67.71.78.172 06:56, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Build a Criticism section and post it here, if it is good and neutral enough, it could be inserted. Just remember not linking to urine, as it is not correct per WP:CONTEXT. -- ReyBrujo 06:58, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There is one already. I remember refrences to urine were removed in the past so my goal is find out what the current consensus on the issue is. Sorry for not making that clear. To clearify I do not plan to do anything to the section until a consensus if formed. 67.71.78.172 07:06, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

text: It is my opinion this section should be removed completely.  Yeah people didnt like the name very much, but oh woopty doo.  Unless there is a solid reference stating lots of critisims that were received, not just what people observed themselves.Sir hugo 11:53, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I wasn't just "what people observed."  There were quite a few articles within the gaming community bemoaning the choice of name. Ladlergo 17:39, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

text: The urine reference was removed a long time ago, after someone who had also added a toilet (or was it urinal) as an image to this article had tried to keep it there by reverting people's removal of the reference all the time. Who added it back, and why is it still there? --Ritarri 12:14, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It was added back in a few days ago, people who have more time in this article edited that section around it and left it so until today I left it as well.  But today I commented it out for the time being.Sir hugo 13:15, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

text: If people are divided over whether to explain why it was considered an unfortunate choice of name, I suggest adding a selection of references (IGN, Gamespot, etc) that elaborate. Ladlergo 17:39, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, but i always thught Wii sounded like a euphemism for penis, not urine... hence the "playing with your Wii" jokes. 69.19.14.38 03:35, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussion about urine refrence 

message: Okay, do you think you could kindly add an image gallery if the pictures of the wii?
I do not know how nor posses the time to do so. So please, if you have time, put an image gallery.
Thanks
penubag
(UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.230.55.64 (talk • contribs) 
:Sorry, but we don't really need an image gallery of the pictures of the Wii.  There are enough images already.--the ninth bright shiner talk 01:20, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This can't be done because the current image is free, whereas the image you're proposing to use is copyrighted. Wikipedia is about free content and free access to information, so using a copyrighted picture instead of a free one is unacceptable. Mushroom (Talk) 23:23, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image gallery 

message: I think that Revo-Europe.com, TheWiire.com and Cubed3.com should be removed since they are blogs, and blogs are never accepted as reliable sources. Sorry if I removed them without discussion but keeping them is against the policy, so I didn't think someone would put them back. I read those sites and find them interesting, but then why not add Nintendo Wii Fanboy or all those other Wii blogs out there? Answer: "because they aren't reliable sources". I think GameSpot and IGN could stay, though. Mushroom (Talk) 15:44, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Please refer to Talk:Wii/archive10#External_Links for the reasons behind their inclusion. Sir hugo 15:50, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, so there is a consensus about TheWiire.com and Cubed3.com (even if I don't agree). Can I remove Revo-Europe.com? Mushroom (Talk) 15:54, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That discussion is in Talk:Wii/archive11, I dont know if there was a full concensus or not but we have left it on there since that discussion and Dancter and Comsumed Crustacean are pretty adiment about only including things that should be there. --Sir hugo 15:58, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. There doesn't seem to be a full consensus, and the article about Revo-Europe is getting deleted because it's not notable enough. Furthermore, the site is currently down. (back online now) For the record, neither TheWiire nor Cubed3 have articles on Wikipedia, but consensus is consensus, so I won't remove them again. I will instead remove the link to Revo-Europe, if no one objects in the next 24 hours. Mushroom (Talk) 16:08, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, and I generally remove new links when they are added, and then I add a message at the talk page of the user who added it, asking them to bring up the link here.  Sometimes they do, but they usually get rejected. --Maxamegalon2000 16:11, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I would not lament the removal of Revo-Europe from the list. --Maxamegalon2000 17:01, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

text: My edit restoring those external links was less about whether the links belonged, and more about reverting a slew of seemingly well-intentioned but misguided edits by an anon. And if I remember correctly, I stayed out of the Revo-Europe.com debate. Dancter 16:30, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was also against the Revo-Europe addition, I just know it was discussed and then it stayed up.  I personally would love to see it gone to clean up that part of the article.  Like I stated in that discussion unless the unofficial links are of good status then I dont like including them and this one seems to be declining from what it used to be anyway.--Sir hugo 16:38, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Blogs are not just unacceptable as sources, they are not acceptable as external links as well. See WP:EL#Links normally to be avoided, number 9. However, there may be exceptions in cases where the website is of a particularly high standard. Mushroom (Talk) 16:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: External links

message: Should Revolution-Europe.com be removed from the Unofficial Coverage External Links section.
*Remove, adds nothing that other links dont already cover--Sir hugo 17:36, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: Since no one wants to keep it, I have removed the link to Revo-Europe. Mushroom (Talk) 23:11, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed

message: I noticed that this game's exclusivity status in the table of launch titles has been changed back to "Yes". This game is NOT an outright Wii exclusive; it is a timed exclusive, ie. it is being released on Wii first, and on other consoles later. As Ubisoft's Xavier Poix stated,
:"The more we heard about the Wii, the more interested we became. Then when we got our development kits, we knew that everything we dreamed of doing on this was possible. That’s why we changed our minds. We decided, ‘Ok let’s just focus on Wii’. That’s it. The other versions can come later."
Source: 
--Lumina83 00:41, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Can I just voice my opposition to having an "exclusive" column at all again? Kthxbye and all that stuff. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 03:39, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Lets remove it then.  It has only cropped up in the last month or so and I dont care that much for it either.  If a game is made by Nintendo it will be for only Nintendo if it is made by 3rd party it will probably not be only for Nintendo.  Time for that column to make a graceful exit.--Sir hugo 11:32, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I strongly object.  Exclusivity is useful information readers will want to know about. MrVoluntarist 16:12, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, then. How abotu some new categories for games like Raving Rabits (first on Wii, second on others) and TP (Wii exculsive content)? Jaxad0127 18:00, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Rayman Raving Rabbids

message: Since this has taken over a topic with a completely different name I figured I would start our official Exclusivity Column discussion.--Sir hugo 18:18, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Exclusive Column 

message: *Remove Column is not worthwhile to readers, if this was a list of all games on the Wii I could understand, but this is the launch titles only.  Leave this to the article about all the games.--Sir hugo 18:18, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey #2

message: Since only one fourth of the replies are listed as "Keep", and there is an obvious trend, I have removed the "Exclusive" column.WatashiNoAiken 00:41, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed

message: So, the Wii sits on a stand right? It doesn't look like the Wii would lie very well on its side with the stand. And the stand gives it a tilt? Does the stand add any functionality to the console? It probably wouldn't hurt to add these things to the article.70.66.9.162 08:29, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is on a stand (fairly sure it's been shown being held off the stand), but the fuction of the stand is completely unknown from what I've seen. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 08:50, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The stand's function is just that, to stand the console up. An article from Nintendo of Europe actually stated that the stand would double as the system's power supply, but later turned it down saying that it was an error. Months later, the actual power supply was shown (and also proven to be much smaller than the Xbox 360 Power "Brick") and all the battery speculation was put to an end.WatashiNoAiken 18:17, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That could possibly be useful article material then. Do you have linkses? -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 19:49, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Stand?

message: An anony brought this up. Should the Wii be said to be backward compatible with the consoles listed? Or should the consoles be shortened and a mention to the Virtual Console given, only? Or should the virtual console not be mentioned at all? The point is that the virtual console is emulation, and not actual binary compatability. The PS2, for instance, has actual PS1 hardware in it that lets it do the compatibility.
Unfortunately, we have two other pages that seem to be at odds on this issue, so using precedence may be difficult. Playstation 3 has both the PS1 and PS2 listed as compatible, while it seems likely that the PS1 is emulated and the PS2 is not but will be in the future. The Xbox 360 article on the other hand does not list backward compatbility, though it plays Xbox games through emulation. This may just be because the editors there have not thought of including it in the infobox, or because of talks in the talk page on the topic (they're in the archive somewhere).
Apologies if this is incoherent, I'm off to bed. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 06:38, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think they should be listed, even as Virtual Console. Listing them makes it seem like you can use their cartridges, controllers, etc, when that is not how it's done. Thats how Gamecube compatibility is done. Listing them would be like listing NES compatibility on the GBA because several games have been redone (in a series no less) for that hardware. Even though the Wii won't require the games to be redone (as far as we know), their original hardware will have to be emulated to run on the Wii's new hardware. This is a very sticky subject. Jaxad0127 07:00, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you can use the original media in the new console, nevertheless if the compatibility layer is software or hardware, it is backwards compatible. Otherwise, I could say my PC is backwards compatible with NES, SNES, Megadrive, Saturn, PlayStation, N64, GB, GBA... and I could continue. -- ReyBrujo 07:04, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But we're not using the original media. The original media is on cartridges, while the Virtual Console will be distributing them via the Internet, hence my second sentance. Its the same with emulation on a personal computer, you're not using the original hardware (media), but instead something different to work on your system. Even though the games' program is identical, it's not being used the same way. The Gamecube compatibility is there because it will be done with Gamecube discs, controllers, etc, not with new peripherals (unless you want to use them). Repackaging and emulation are not the same as backward compatibility. Jaxad0127 07:51, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

text: I agree with Jax on this one.  Backwards compatable to me means that I can take the game I own from X console and use it in Y console.  Paying no fee and being able to use atleast most of the external equipment that that game requires whether it was remade for the new console or still uses the old hardware.  The Wii will allow me to use my bongos to play Jungle Beat and will allow me to use the Double Dash disk without having to pay for it.  The virtual console, while worth its own section, is not backwards compatability.  First of all not all games will be available, second I will have to buy these games that I might have already paid for years ago and lastly I dont forsee a running mat being made for the Wii right now, though it would be the ultimate in nostalgic.--Sir hugo 11:51, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I daresay this definition ought to apply to the Xbox 360 article as well. --69.154.199.166 12:14, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Having looked in on the Xbox360 article and the Backward compatability article I found that there seems to be a clear definition that is not being used correctly.  In the article about being compatable it states that: 
"In technology, especially computing, a product is said to be backward compatible (or downward compatible) when it is able to take the place of an older product, by interoperating with other products that were designed for the older product."
It then explains an example.  The list of examples though is a bit confusing as some of the examples, including the Wii, dont really fit the bill for this.  The way I see it for a system to be backward compatable the original media has to be used, me as the client needs to not feel a difference except possibly an upgraded interface to an upgraded server.  Yes Emulation is a large part of this, when I put an original Game Boy game into a a Game Boy Advance the GBA doesnt have the exact hardware of the GB inside it that it switches over too, it uses emulation instead.--Sir hugo 13:39, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Agreeing with ReyBrujo, Jax, Sir Hugo.  (I had written more, until I finished reading everything. --Stratadrake 16:21, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Backward compatability 

message: Shouldn't this be included in the list of games around launch. (November 10) 74.137.230.39 13:21, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see a list of games to be available around launch. --Maxamegalon2000 13:28, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Need for Speed: Carbon]]