Talk:Albert Mohler

message: In my opinion, the article seems as close as you can get to NPOV without being condescending towards Mohler.  Even Mohler himself admits that his views are controversial and not necessarily polite.  I think the only way you could improve this page is to provide countervailing opinions on the following points:
* One departing faculty member, G. Wade Rowatt, referred to the new regime as "a Baptist version of the Taliban." Were there any countervailing opinions of faculty that supported him and/or rejected this assertion?  If so, what are they?
** Agree. To be researched. Alan Canon 16:54, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  3rd opinion, as requested 

message: I believe as the article currently stands, it deserves the POV warning.  While most of the statements may be true, the tenor of the article is clearly negative and not encyclopedic per wiki-policy.  For one example, in "Professed Theology", his belief that faith in Christ is the only way of salvation is cast as a narrow inflammatory point of view when in reality it is the view of the vast majority of conservative Christianity.  Selected comments criticizing his views and policies are included to the exclusion of positive comments thereby resulting an unbalanced article.  Jim Ellis 16:56, August 10, 2005 (UTC)
* ...the tenor of the article is clearly negative and not encyclopedic per wiki-policy. Well, I disagree, there, and I'm a Christian.  I'm just not a fundamentalist Baptist - I'm a Lutheran.  I think his views are presented about as neutrally as they can be (see the above discussion regarding "abortion rights" versus "abortion").  But, let's go over the Professed Theology section together, here:
::#Some references state that Mohler was initially liberal in his theology, particularly during his years as a seminarian, prior to the rise of the conservative movement within the Southern Baptist denomination. One source states that Mohler experienced a conservative epiphany growing from conversations with Carl F. H. Henry, whose essays Mohler later edited. (Realms of Faith: Christian Authors Database at propadeutic.com) -- Okay, this isn't a slam, it's pretty straightforward.  When he was younger, he was more liberal, then he had a conservative epiphany.  "Conservative" is not a bad word (if anyone thinks it is, then they aren't one), so we're pretty NPOV.  Moreover, from a Conservative Fundamentalist POV, having an epiphany and turning away from a more liberal outlook would be a GOOD thing, not a bad thing.
::#Shortly after his term as President began, Mohler drafted a policy (which was ratified by the trustees) that the Seminary would only hire professors who believed that the Bible prohibits the ordination of women as preachers. Some women already in teaching positions at the Seminary, or who served outside the Seminary in a missionary capacity, were stripped of their posts. -- And, again, this isn't a slam, this is simply a flat statement of what he did.  It supports the following summary paragraph, below:
::#Theologically, Mohler respresents conservative fundamentalist Christianity. He opposes the role of women in preaching roles, opposes abortion, and believes that homosexuality is a sin. -- I don't think there's many who would disagree with this, his views are, in the Conservative Fundamentalist outlook, pretty normal. Most fundamentalists believe that the bible does not support women in the role of pastors, most fundamentalists believe abortion is murder, and most fundamentalists believe homosexuality is a sin.  Again, this pretty much NPOV, and stated very plainly.
::#He is aligned with other evangelicals such as James Dobson. -- And again, this is simply a statement of fact.  Also, since "evangelicals" isn't a bad word, particularly to a fundamentalist, this again should be viewed as a good thing.
* I'm afraid I am going to have to disagree with your opinion.  There really is nothing wrong with this section - it neither praises nor condemns him for his beliefs, it simply states what his beliefs are.  Moreover, much of the terms used are not bad terms to those who truly are fundamentalists - for example, being called a "conservative" or "evangelical" is not a bad thing to a fundamentalist, it's a good thing. -- Xaa 17:56, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  4th opinion 

message: What is the role and the relevance of this statement: Another host of the program was Family Research Council president Tony Perkins, a figure with ties to the Council of Conservative Citizens and former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke. ?  "ties" of what kind?  Does he somehow represent the positions of the Council of Consevative Citizens, through the Family Research Council?  Is he a spokesman for David Duke?  Does the CCC represent David Duke? Does Kevin Bacon figure into this conspiracy somehow? — Mark (Mkmcconn) ** 23:35, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: In response to your comment, I annotated the word "ties" to link to the relevant section of the Tony Perkins Article (1996 Jenkins Campaign Finance Scandal), which reads in part Perkins was the 1996 campaign manager for Republican U. S. Senate hopeful Louis E. "Woody" Jenkins of Louisiana, then a Democratic colleague of Perkins' delegation to the Louisiana House of Representatives, who was running against Mary Landrieu. The campaign was fined $3,000 by the Federal Election Commission for hiding $82,500 in payments to former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke in return for Duke's mailing list. See if you think that helps. Alan Canon 14:03, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'm probably being dense, but I still don't understand why this is relevant.  The sentence still suggests that Mohler is connected with David Duke, suggesting that he in some sense is allied; but the article says that he is "tied" to David Duke's mailing list by sharing the stage with Tony Perkins.  This material, including the insinuated guilt by association with Chuck Colson, is irrelevant and dishonest.  Do you want to remove it or should I? — Mark (Mkmcconn) ** 18:46, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

text:  I've removed the offending part of the paragraph, and the innuendo about connections to other kinds of badness through "Watergate-figure-turned-evangelical".  — Mark (Mkmcconn) ** 21:50, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Fine by me. Any other NPOV you'd like to address? Alan Canon 22:51, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  I don't see the continuing need for the disputed banner.  Can it be removed? — Mark (Mkmcconn) ** 17:32, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Poisoning the well? 

message: This article still seems rather hostile to its subject. I'll try to be specific.
First the birth year on the photo is different from the one in the article. I don't know the correct date, so I defer on that.
:The October 19, 1959 DOB was provided by an anonymous contributor. I am betting that more precise means more accurate, so removed 1960 birth date from photo caption. Alan Canon 16:10, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Deleted the phrase and tidied. Alan Canon 16:10, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Done Alan Canon 16:10, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Done Alan Canon 16:10, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Will research Alan Canon 16:10, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  improvements for article 

message: First of all, sorry for leaving out the edit summary; I accidentally hit "save" first.
I attempted to remove this article's rather substantial POV problems, with large sections of the article simply giving Mohler's supporters' POV. However, I also removed the following, original research anti-Mohler POV :
:...This is in contrast to apparently more consistent proponents of sola scriptura who note the numerous biblical passages which teach: 1) that wine is a gift from God (e.g., Psalm 104:14-15 and Isaiah 25:6); and 2) that Jesus acknowledged drinking alcohol and was called a "drunkard" as a result (e.g., Luke 7:33-34).  Thus, like other Christian teetotalers, Mohler is stuck in the uncomfortable position of affirming both the sinlessness of Jesus and the sinfulness of Jesus' drinking.
I removed the lines saying that he supports "biblical ecclesiology and biblical preaching" -- these ideas need to be defined, since there is more than one view on what "biblical ecclesiology" is, for instance. 
I also removed a sentence that attempted to draw obvious conclusions from Mohler's support of torture: "From this statement it can be assumed that Mohler supports the use of torture under certain circumstances."
This article has a very long way to go -- unsourced claims abound and only Mohler's most controversial views are discussed at any length. Though I knocked away a lot of POV, I didn't get rid of it all. Basically, it's less of a total mess now, rather than a good article. --Zantastik talk 22:25, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent major edit 

message: Maybe I missed it, but I don't think this article tells us what his first initial stands for. Does anyone happen to know? Bhumiya (said/done) 10:12, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  What does "R" stand for? 

message: I have tried to improve the "neutrality" of this article
All fairly minor changes but I think the tone is less negative as a result, I have also referenced the last one or two unreferneced facts and removed a couple of non-refernced items.
I note that there has been little discussion recently on this article.  I propose that unless there are any objections the warning about parts of the article being disputed and it being unrefenced be removed. 
If there are no objections in a week or so I will do this - they can always be added again later!  8th Nov 2006  Jonathon Smith
"a nationwide radio show devoted to engaging contemporary culture with the biblical truth"
--I think this sentence could be a little better worded.  
Bgiffer05 (talk) 03:59, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV

message: It is important that Mohler's teaching of complete abstinence from alcohol is recorded in the article. He is one of many American evangelical leaders who teach this. This article is not, however, the place to debate this issue. As a person who believes that the Bible teaches that drinking alcohol in moderation is not wrong, I question Mohler's commitment to Sola Scriptura. But the only time any discussion of the tension between Sola Scriptura and Abstinence should appear in the article is if some article is written elsewhere which discusses it (eg in Christianity Today or in a Baptist blog).
Again - please do not remove the section on Mohler's position on alcohol. --One Salient Oversight 04:23, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alcohol 

message: ↜Just me, here, now … 04:11, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Does anybody know who, if anybody, Albert supported in the Republican primaries? 

message: Could we find a more sinister picture perhaps? lol Preferably one with glowing eyes, devil horns, and in the middle some heinous act? /sarcasm 
I really think the man deserves a normal picture like everyone else on here- one from the school or his blog. The current one looks edited as well. This smacks of POV.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Victoria h (talk • contribs) 15:09, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see any evidence of photo editing, but if you think the photo is unacceptable, feel free to try to find another one with an acceptable license.  I did some searching and couldn't find one. Sfazzio (talk) 22:50, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Albert Mohler's people have declined a request I sent them, asking that they release an image from http://www.albertmohler.com, unfortunately.  I suppose it's too much to hope that someone knows him or is in one of his classes or something and could take a picture for us?  --Philosopher Let us reason together. 00:56, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  photo 

message: Hello everyone. Please try to incorporate this new information into the article:   108.22.249.26 (talk) 03:39, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The rules about biographies of living people are very strict - self-published sources must never be included. The only connection between Mohler and this controversy is from self-published sources. StAnselm (talk) 01:06, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Al Mohler and the Philip Gunn scandal. 

message: In 2003 Mohler participated in a conference at Southern Seminary entitled "Ecumenical Jihad? Islam, Christianity and the Culture War" alongside Ergun Caner and others. Ergun Caner had rocketed to prominence in the wake of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks by claiming he had been a devout Muslim trained as a terrorist to do what the 9-11 terrorist had done until he converted to Christianity.At the conference, with Mohler sitting on the platform, Caner claimed to have moved to the US as a teenager after having been raised in majority Muslim countries and he even spoke some phrases of what he claimed was Arabic."Panel: Efforts to unite Christians, Muslims undermine Gospel", By David Roach, Dec 4, 2003, Baptist Press, http://www.bpnews.net/printerfriendly.asp?id=17207; "Ecumenical Jihad? Islam, Christianity and the Culture War, Part 1 â€“ General Introduction, http://www.russellmoore.com/tag/ergun-mehmet-caner/. By 2010 investigators had found that Caner's claims were false.http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2010/mayweb-only/28-11.0.html  Even the so-called Arabic turned out to be gibberish.http://www.fakeexmuslims.com/glossary-of-arabic-terms; http://www.faithfulnews.com/main/view/345630/ergun-caner-fake-arabic-gibberish-exposed-by-liberty-university-student Despite being an eye-witness and host to some of the deceptions and his record of speaking out on a wide variety of issues, as yet Mohler has issued no official statements about Caner, even after Caner was appointed president of another Southern Baptist educational institution, Brewton-Parker College.
:No, you would need to find a real source which discusses this "silence"; the absence of sources where he says something isn't the same thing. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 21:40, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  This has nothing to do with Albert Mohler, there are lots of people who have interacted with Caner and haven't made official statements. If you wish to include this information then you need to add it to the Ergun Caner page, not here. ReformedArsenal (talk) 16:08, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Silence on Ergun Caner

message: Substituted at 07:04, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 7 external links on Albert Mohler. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070928095234/http://www.floridabaptistwitness.com/3499.article to http://www.floridabaptistwitness.com/3499.article
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140914044942/http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?id=17956 to http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?id=17956
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0%2C8599%2C443800%2C00.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070928095234/http://www.floridabaptistwitness.com/3499.article to http://www.floridabaptistwitness.com/3499.article
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050623121629/http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05%2F05%2F05%2F1429230 to http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05%2F05%2F05%2F1429230
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060526191226/http://www.albertmohler.com/documents/ModelingModesty.pdf to http://www.albertmohler.com/documents/ModelingModesty.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061206231806/http://www.sbts.edu/docs/Mohler/EyeCovenant.pdf to http://www.sbts.edu/docs/Mohler/EyeCovenant.pdf
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 01:49, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This is important to the article, despite his critical views of Roman Catholicism, and it shouldn`t be deleted without any reason. The sources are his own articles. He said of Mother Teresa: "As we reflect upon the death of Mother Teresa, may we glorify God for her good works and take courage from her example as a defender of the unborn and the despised. May we preach the gospel of grace, and may the evidence of that grace be so abundant that God is glorified. As this murderous and immoral century comes to a close, may evangelical Christians bear witness to both the grace and the goodness of God, and may God do something beautiful through us." Mistico (talk) 18:43, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have a reliable source noting these remarks, especially in the context of his other anti-Catholic statements? It seems like you're trying to synthesize an argument here. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 23:37, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

text: Not unless you turn up some usable sources you won't. We report what reliable sources have reported, we are not a mirror site for Mohler's own website. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 03:25, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Mohler already expressed his admiration for influential Roman Catholics

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Albert Mohler. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://www.webcitation.org/66GYCIu9v?url=http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=11977 to http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=11977
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 20:55, 2 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 5 external links on Albert Mohler. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110111045756/http://www.cbmw.org/Board-of-Directors to http://www.cbmw.org/Board-of-Directors
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080814232055/http://www.baptiststandard.com/2000/4_3/pages/mohler.html to http://www.baptiststandard.com/2000/4_3/pages/mohler.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090912221728/http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=14075 to http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=14075
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060218235236/http://www.christianpost.com/article/general/201/full/debate.over.christian.aid.to.iraq.nationally.aired/1.htm to http://www.christianpost.com/article/general/201/full/debate.over.christian.aid.to.iraq.nationally.aired/1.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130316235542/http://www.abpnews.com/faith/theology/item/8300-sbc-leader-denounces-papacy to http://www.abpnews.com/faith/theology/item/8300-sbc-leader-denounces-papacy
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 21:38, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018)