Talk:Agusta A129 Mangusta

message: The sources are unclear, but the improvements seem to be compared with the original A129, not the A129 International (A129I), esp the engine performance figures. I have a sourceFrawley, Gerard: The International Directiory of Military Aircraft, 2003-2004, page 20. Aerospace Publications Pty Ltd, 2003.  which states the A129I has "20% more-powerful LHTEC T800 turboshafts", exactly the same figures given for the T129. As such, I have to believe the T129 uses the same engines as the A129I, and the the performace figures are comparing the T129 to original A129 with the Gem engines, not to the A129I. Assuming the deal goes forward, more information should be forthcoming, but until then, I believe my interpretation of the figures is accurate based on verifiable sources to this point. Thanks. - BillCJ 03:57, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: T129 specs

message: We're planning on converting the A139 Int'l specs to the T129 when they are released. Since the T129 is the only version of the A129I that has been sold, it seems apporpriate to list the T129 3-view there, rather than in the text. The A129I 3-view with printed text does not look professional, and it looks like it's from a presumably-copyrighted book/magazine, I am going to remove it. I won't move the T129 preveiw back to the specs at this time, as it seems to be too contentious. - BillCJ 23:44, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: T129 3-view

message: Re. this revert : I disagree. This is not one of the contexts where either "former Yugoslav..." or even "Republic of..." is needed. The context is one of international politics, where the simple name "Macedonia" alone is practically unambiguous (in a sentence involving "UN missions to X, Y, and Z", where Y and Z are unambiguously independent countries, it would be implausible for a reader to assume that X should be referring to anything else but also the independent country of that name.) The rule you quote is only for environments "where the context demands making a disambiguating contrast even more salient. [...] This will usually only be the case where the country needs to be mentioned in direct contrast with one of the other 'Macedonias'". Not the case here. And if you want "former Yugoslav" for reasons other than disambiguation, for instance just as a piece of background info about why there was a UN mission in that country in the first place, you'd have to ask yourself: why does this entry in the list need such background info, when the other two don't? In any case, it's irrelevant to this article, since this article isn't about what the UN was doing in those countries and why; it's purely about the machine. Fut.Perf. ☼ 06:34, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Disagree. You'll have to ask yourself why a simple explanatory phrase making more clear a historical situation must be thrown out to apply with a general guideline when it is in fact allowed in these situation by the guideline's own text. Of course, I played no part in writing the guidelines, so I can only go on what the text actually says, not what is says. Why don't the other two have explanatory info? Probably because a single phrase can't sum up their situations, but if you can think of some, feel free to add them. Do try keep them succint, as this article is purely about the machine. - BilCat (talk) 07:57, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well, as I just quoted to you, the guideline does NOT suggest to use the phrase in a situation like this – the phrase you quoted is ONLY for cases where a disambiguation contrast must be made particularly salient, which is not the case here. What do we need the phrase for? We don't need to use it as part of the country's name (because it isn't); we don't want to suggest to the reader that it is part of the name (because we shouldn't); we don't need to use it to avoid ambiguity (because there isn't any); and we don't need it to provide historical background info (because, as you say yourself, that's not what the article is about). Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:31, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Even though I'm obviously not smart enough to actually understand written English, I'll stick by my interpretation that the guidelines I quoted in my summary do in fact allow such uses. Granted, the phrase was written long before the guidelines were contrived, but I don't see how keeping it harms anything. Perhaps you should get the guidelines clarified to say what you actually want them to say, then come back and enforce them. Until then! - BilCat (talk) 08:52, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  The guideline is crystal clear. There is a context to the phrase you quoted. It's embedded in a structure, you know. It very explicitly speaks only of a very special situation, which doesn't apply here. Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:56, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

text: So you agree "Republic of Macedonia" is acceptable here? Thanks. - BilCat (talk) 13:40, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep.  Happy to help Fritzpoll (talk) 14:53, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Application of [[WP:NCMAC]] 

message: I found the applicable section in the MOS: Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (text formatting)#Foreign terms: "A proper name is usually not italicized when it is used, but it may be italicized when the name itself is being referred to (see Words as words)." Thanks. - BilCat (talk) 20:39, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Italicizing non-English words

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