Talk:Unfulfilled historical predictions by Christians

message: I have removed this entry for several reasons:
# As a Luther scholar of a sort, I have never heard of Luther making a statement that either he, his companions or students of any generation took seriously as a prophecy. # It is hard for me to figure out what the source the book cited has for this passage, although it appears to be Table Talk. Luther scholars rarely cite this work because the accuracy of those writing down Luther's words has been often questioned. # It has all the feel of a typical Luther rhetorical exaggeration, not meant to be taken seriously.
It is as follows: 
* 1830-1850: Martin Luther had predicted the Second Coming would happen during this time period. 
#The Familiar Discourses Of Dr. Martin Luther, translated by Henry Bell and revised by Joseph Kerby (London: Baldwin, Craddock and Joy, 1818), 7, 8. "I persuade myself verily it will not be absent full three hundred years longer."
If no one objects, I will leave it off the page. If there is an objection, I will try to pin down the actual quote. --CTSWyneken 20:16, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: To tell you the truth it doesn't even sound like a prophecy, it sounds like a personal opinion, thats not exactly fair game for this page anyway..... Homestarmy 20:55, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Heh... --Oscillate 06:14, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It looked well referenced to me, but I have never heard of that book so I can't say if it is accurate or not --T-rex 23:38, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Table talk is a collection of sayings that Luther and his friends made while dining at Luther's home. These were written down by folks with a varying degree of accuracy. The most we can say about these sayings is that Luther may have said some thing likr this -- maybe. 8-) That and what Homes said; it's not really a prophecy. --CTSWyneken 02:16, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  IMHO, if a specific entry in this list could not reasonably be re-phrased as "so-and-so said that the Christian God told them / gave them the power to predict that ..." then it should be removed post-haste. This is one of the core problems that I've had with switching the title of the article from "prophecy" to "predictions". It opens the door to this becoming a collection of musings by any random Christian instead of a collection of prophecies associated with Christian faith throughout its existance (as every religion has had, I'm certainly not saying this is in any way a "deficiency" of Christianity). -Harmil 20:02, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't even think the article will become important if it's just "predictions", so probably so much for me getting to help people beware of false prophets..... :(. Homestarmy 21:48, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Harmil you are one of the people who voted for "predictions" rather then "prophecy" --T-rex 23:13, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Martin Luther Prophecy 

message: This page especially needs to be very carefully cited. --CTSWyneken 20:19, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Using primary sources or at least the actual text of the prophecies, an number of the entries are pretty bad cases of putting words in someone's mouth or implying rather more than was said. Dalf | Talk 06:03, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  We need to attend to citations 

message: Johanneum... I like what you've done! It may need a little wikifying to meet the Style Manual standards, but I think people will step up to help. Tex 14:39, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Additions 

message: Edward Irving is described in this article as the founder of the Catholic Apostolic Church.  However, Irving's own article says he is widely but incorrectly thought to be the founder.  It does not follow the matter, unfortunately, but the article on the Church itself says that its members regard Irving to be in a similar relation as regards the Church as John the Baptist was to the early Christian Church:  not the founder, but a paver of the way.  Can we clear this up? -- Antaeus Feldspar 15:49, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edward Irving 

message: Here's another one from P-Rob I'd like to insert. It is true that things could still turn around for the Bush administration, but right now, "a series of dramatic victories" is not the description that would occur to many people. Any objections? Or should we wait for the verdict of history in forty or fifty years?
"Well, the Lord has some very encouraging news for George Bush ... What I heard is that Bush is now positioned to have victory after victory and that his second term is going to be one of triumph, which is pretty strong stuff. ... He'll have Social Security reform passed. He'll have tax reform passed. He'll have conservative judges on the courts. And that basically he is positioned for a series of dramatic victories which I hope will hearten him and his advisers. They don't have to be timid in this matter because the wind is blowing at his back, and he can move forward boldly and get results." Pat Robertson, "The 700 Club," January 3, 2005
Tex 16:01, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: He vetoed that stem cell thing, does that count? :). I think there's probably still time to wait for this one however. Homestarmy 02:05, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I know things look bad, but I really think even though its fairly obvious how this'll end up, its still crystal balling :/. Homestarmy 01:04, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pat Robertson Prediction 

message: The Baptist Church also has a history of date and time predictions that have failed. One of the first Baptist groups "the Anabaptists of the early Sixteenth Century believed that the Millennium would occur in 1533." - Surely this is a contradiction in terms? Will someone please edit this out with whatever it's supposed to say? Mahakala 04:42, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That still doesn't follow --T-rex 03:08, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Centuries and Dates 

message: The article is written in an inappropriate tone. Comments such as: 
*"The Roman Catholic Church also has a history of failed predictions about the "time of the end.""
*"In volume II of The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers, author Leroy Edwin Froom tells us about a prominent Anglican prelate..."
*"No more needs to be said about this prediction."
are hardly the types of things you would expect to find in an encyclopaedia. Hence I have added the template.
It is also evident that the article is in further need of general cleanup; I will try to help out with this when I can. BenC7 12:36, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Valid points, though the direction of this article is still somewhat obscure. I suspect many of the prophecies may still not have adequate references, it's possible some of them aren't even supposed to be here. Homestarmy 20:59, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inappropriate tone 

message: I'm posting a request for the Harvard refernces to be listed & crosslinked in a new section: 'Bibliography', right above the section 'References'.100110100 09:17, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bibliography 

message: TERRORISM 2007: PAT ROBERTSON HAS BEEN TALKING TO GOD AGAIN. 
During a recent prayer retreat, God told him that a terrorist attack on the U.S. late in 2007 will result in a "mass killing". 
Robertson relayed God's message to "The 700 Club" on Tuesday. 
"The Lord didn't say nuclear, but I do believe it will be something like that."  "I have a relatively good track record," he said.  "Sometimes I miss."  
--Tex 23:47, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "Sometimes I miss"? I gotta say, that sounds kind of desperate, none of the prophets in the Bible "missed", and true prophets are only supposed to get everything right....But anyway, I guess we'll see what happens eh. Homestarmy 00:04, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it should only be included in the article if it fails to materialize. We can't keep track of ever possible prediction made by everyone, but if he's proven wrong it might be worth noting. —Aiden 08:19, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Pat R prediction 

message: Ben it appears your hatred is becoming obsessive. Ben I quoted what they actually did say, and you replied, "who said anything about Franz."  What Franz said is what they taught!  Can you please show even one article that supports what you continue to  present?  This is an encyclopedia, please try and put your personal beliefs and feelings, about a religion, away and present facts.  The facts are they did highlight the potential and the possibility or even probability, However they did not say it would but it could. Ben there is not excuse for this misbehavior.  Please live up to the standards of Wiki.  We have been thru this enough.    Johanneum 00:59, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ....Is something going on here? :/ Homestarmy 03:29, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: BENC7&Jehovah's Witnesses

message: There are several things in here that are inacurate. First of all you stated that these prophecies are excepted by most Christians. That, is an outright, biased, intentional lie meant to make the church look like a bunch of idiots. Wikipedia is not the place to practice such malice. I have been a christian for many years and have been in a missionary family since I was 2. I can state as an observed fact that most of these prophecies, at least the modern ones, are laughed at by all except a small handful. What is the point of this article? I believe that you are using it to intentionally attack the church. If I made an article on failed profecies of the muslims, everyone would be outraged. I'm making it clear that I'm not outraged, just very troubled by your efforts and I am going to try to stop them. Another thing that is inaccurate about this article is the inclusion of the Mormons and Jehova's Wittnesses as Christian groups. Only an ignorant person could do that much research and not realise that these two groups are strongly rejected as cults by Christians. Do your research. Also, I've done alot of study on church history, and have never heard of many of these. Saksjn 12:21, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Err, I never noticed anything like that in the article, in the intro (though it is poorly constructed), it states " It should also be noted that the vast majority of Christians have never believed in these extra-Biblical prophecies.". Alas, this article's future and purpose as a whole is seriously questionable since the title change, a topic with a title as vauge as this probably would of been speedied instantly if it had been created recently, all that keeps it dealing with prophecy at all instead of silly things like not being able to predict what will happen in the future based on personal intuition is the consent of editors, its quite a lousy article title.... Homestarmy 13:10, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Stuff to be removed

message: I undertook to move the following paragraph, having no idea what a long history of revisions and counter-revisions this article has seen, but I'm not surprised.  Here's a little hint for anyone who wants to slip a message into a Wikipedia article: Don't self-refer to what you write as "discussion"! That's like painting a big target on your behind. Just spend a little time with the text and weave that passive-aggressive end-times message into it more subtly. The subtle method works, trust me. My Rapture nightmares [see description below] didn't fade away until years after I stopped being bombarded with this sophistry as a youth at Bellevue Baptist Church and that madrasah I attended, Briarcrest Baptist H.S..  
::- NB: There is a difference between using reason to try and understand Scriptures, and people claiming to have a prophetic word from God about the future. Many of the failed predictions cited below are examples of false prophesy, while others are examples of misinterpretation or misuse of biblical texts.  For example, Chuck Smith, of Calvary Chapel, is not prophesying, but trying to interpret the meaning of Jesus' prophecy given almost 2000 years ago, that "Jerusalem shall be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.," (Luke 21:4). What should be noted in this discussion, is the fulfillment of the prophecy by Jesus that Jerusalem would both be destroyed by Rome, its people sent again into exile, and then, at some time in the future, be restored to Jewish hands,  a sign which Jesus himself links to the coming of the Kingdom of God and the return of the Son of Man, (Luke 21:5-36). 
But all those quirky predictions by televangelists and tent preachers (who likely assume they are exercising scriptural "reason") don't really bother me. It's the more corporate-style dispensationalists who always follow "no man knows the hour" with a pregnant "but," soon followed by justifications for all kinds of foreign and domestic policy non-sequiters, including the wholesale destruction of Creation. If you really believe America will cease to exist as we know it "before this generation shall pass"---regardless of which party holds on to power---then you really ought to recuse yourself from any kind of leadership role.  <sigh> As you can tell, I'm probably incapable of sustaining a NPOV on this topic, so I'm recusing myself from further involvement, but I will monitor the discussion. I'm sure I owe somebody an apology.
My recurring Rapture Nightmare: I would "wake up" finding myself still in my bed, but it was flying straight up into the night sky at about Mach 3) 
Riskplaya 06:40, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, I don't think I even know any Dispensationalist types who watch this page, (I'm assuming that's where your Rapture Nightmare thing is coming from) so you might very well need to apologize to nobody :/. Homestarmy 01:22, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Moved paragraph from article to discussion since it self-refers as "discussion"

message: This article was redirected to Famous predictions  as a result of an Articles for Deletion debate. The discussion can be found here. -Docg 17:39, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Articles for Deletion debate

message: I have resurrected the article, minus the specific Christian lead paragraph, at Unfulfilled religious prophecies. EliminatorJR Talk 01:41, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: JR, if that's what you want to do, then clean it up as a matter of priority. For one thing, make sure that every single prophecy here is distinctly religious. Not political, not cultural, but religious. Also, I think it would be better if the whole thing as done as a timeline. StAnselm 05:19, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Resurrection