Talk:Voisin 1907 biplane

message: I've recently read Voisin's Men, Women, and 10,000 Kites. He makes no mention of having built the 14-bis, and since the book is largely devoted to claims that Voisin was responsible for more or less every important advance in aviation since Daedalus I think that if he had so much as supplied single bolt to Santos Dumont the last of it heard would not have been. (among his ludicrous assertions is some guff, when talking about the Voisin Canard of 1911, about it's (dictatedby configuration) nosewheel undercarriagebeing an innovation  th americans were not to adopt for another thirty years, and there is also a comparison of Ader's 'Avion' with Blerot's type XI in which the former is described as a magnificent bit of engineering compared to the sketchy and hlf formed nature of the latter which really makes you doubt whether had any engineering sense at all, let alone being a 'mechanical engineer of genius'. Longmans have simply got it wrong. Santos-dumont may hve been influenced by GV, but he surely didn't get him to build it.TheLongTone (talk) 21:07, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  14-bis, and other matters 

message: I propose to change the name of this article to Voisin 1907 biplane (or similar), since tht is actually what the article is about: the'Voisin-Farman no. 1' was merely the most notable of the many aircraft of this type built. Any objectionsTheLongTone (talk) 07:37, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, in Flight "hops and FLights" 1959, its referred to as a Voisin, whereas     Death of Gabriel Voisin 1974  makes reference to the "Voisin-Farman 1" but its hard to tell if they are referring to a specific machine or a general type. If the article was expanded to cover the other airframes (uncited 20?) then I would definitely plump for 1907 Voisin biplane. GraemeLeggett (talk) 08:05, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The article is halfway to being an article about the type anyway. As far as I can ascertain, the Voisin-Farman was simply the second example of the type built: Voisin Freres practise at the time being to paint the owner's name on the tail in large lettrs and their own underneath in small. The type is a notable aircraft and lacks an article.TheLongTone (talk) 08:39, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Go for it. GraemeLeggett (talk) 08:45, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

text: This 1909 article in Flight seems to back the idea that the type is a Voisin and the Farman and Delagrange are specific examples. Not conclusive but encouraging. GraemeLeggett (talk) 18:40, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It's problematic using Voisin's memoirs as a source, there are so many ludicrous and self-contradictory statements there, but: "(Charles Voisin) instructed a sign painter to put in large letters the names of our clients on the empennages of their 'aeroplanes'. Our trade mark, printed below this emblem, was sufficiently modest in size,not to be legible on the photographs of our machines....': it was a measure to get people to buy their aircraft in the hope that any glory gained by winning prizes would be gained by them & not by Voisin Freres. It workrd only two well: Voisin is very bitter about the reception accorded Farman.
What I can't quite figure out is what to do with the 'wheeled undercarriage' & roll control sections', which at present swamp the article and also repeat matter found in many other places.TheLongTone (talk) 07:13, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I've made a start on those sections. Hope it looks better now. GraemeLeggett (talk) 17:13, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article name 

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