Talk:Jump start (vehicle)

message: An easier way to start a car with a dead battery is to push it down a road and attain enough speed, put it in 2nd or 1st gear and then engage the engine with the clutch. This might not work with automatic transmission, and some people say it should not be done with cars with catalytic converters. I wonder why. Is this method of starting a car called a jump start also?
:Push starting is covered in Manual transmission driving technique, under the section entitled "Starting the vehicle without an electric starter". The dire warnings about catalytic converter damage are bogus. --KazKylheku 22:35, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: May 2006

message: The article mentions that care must be taken due to a battery which might explode. Then, the last connection should be made to the chassis with the empty battery? In this case the persons face is most likely near the maybe exploding battery. After reading that I would suggest to make the last connection to the car giving jump-start.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.136.14.9 (talk) 04:56, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Exploding Battery

message: I see several things wrong wiht this article. Here's a short list
#It talks about push starting more than it does jump starting
#It reads like a how to guide
Please fix--12.72.53.246 06:13, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Cleaned up. (you know, you could fix it, too!) How does it look now? --Wtshymanski 17:14, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Cleanup

message: I push-started a car without any assistance. So "required" is the wrong word. The car doesn't even have to be small or light, you can push it with the door open, jump in and rip out the clutch in first. 212.2.166.64 12:38, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think single-handed push starts require very favorable conditions and in my experience generally would be too dangerous to recommend. The last time I needed a jump start was on a curving downtown residential street with moderately high traffic; the vehicle was a Dodge Ram 250 pick-up truck with a diesel engine. I wasn't about to try pushing it even with someone to steer. Often in my part of the world, dead batteries co-incide with much snow on the ground, making even a light vehicle impossible to push single-handed. I have re-phrased the statement to reflect that sometimes a single-handed push start can work. (Glad you mentioned "clutch" - the proverbial bright 12-year old might wonder why only manual transmission cars are candidates to start this way.) --Wtshymanski 14:46, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Do you have a reference that indicates a significant number of dead battery situations arise under such conditions? --Wtshymanski (talk) 14:24, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Push Start 

message: Should it be mentioned that some older cars have a positive chassis (frame) connection, and that care should be taken when jump starting as to connect the polarities correctly. And that the cars can not touch as this will change the connection circuitry, thus shorting something out (I'd have to think about it before making a more specific statement here). My parent's 1970 VW had its positive battery connected to the frame.IanCarmack (talk) 16:09, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's mentioned under Jump start (vehicle)#Voltage problem - does it need much more emphasis than that?  Wikipedia isn't supposed to sound like a how-to manual,I agree if I was giving step-by-step instructions and cautions I'd make a more significant point about those few rare positive ground vehicles still out there (though chances are if you run into a vintage Bug on the street that needs a boost, the owner will be well aware of the issue). --Wtshymanski (talk) 16:34, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Yea you're probably right, the operator of the positive frame connection should know about this. And you are right, this is not an instruction manual. I'm new to this so thanks for the discussion. IanCarmack (talk) 03:45, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Cite it, and write it. This is not the place to speculate on hypothetical situations. --Wtshymanski (talk) 14:24, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Voltages 

message: I added a short section on how military vehicles are jump started.  I figure it's different enough from civilian vehicles to warrant a mention.  When I get autoconfirmed, I can upload a picture of a slave receptacle from a CUCV --CatCube (talk) 06:36, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Military Vehicles 

message: "In an extreme case, it is possible to crank and start a vehicle with no battery in it if the cables are heavy-duty."
That's incorrect. The battery itself is a part of the vehicle's voltage regulating system. Removing it while engine's running will damage the vehicle's electrical systems. Please correct the information. If I'm wrong please notify me.
--larotta (talk) 08:26, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: But there is a battery - it's just at the far end of the cables. What does that do to load dump? ( If only some third party had written about watching me start vehicles through  booster cables, then it wouldn't be original research. ) --Wtshymanski (talk) 15:03, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Error - vehicle with no battery 

message: I don't know how other people boost batteries but "loosening the clamps" makes no sense at all. Could the recent edit be confusing battery removal with battery boosting? And be careful..we had an enormous Wikipissingmatch over giving "how to" advice here (see the sad testimony to wasted human endeavor above); wouldn't want to summon the wrath again now, would we?  --Wtshymanski (talk) 03:11, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Please be civil.  --Dbratland (talk) 03:26, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: QED. --Wtshymanski (talk) 03:32, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

text: You don't usually remove a battery when giving a jump start to another vehicle. --Wtshymanski (talk) 18:58, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Loosen the clamps?

message: if one accident will be prevented it is worth it . i always scratch the ground terminal before clamping. big flash or no spark ,start checking first .—Preceding unsigned comment added by  Wdl1961 (talk • contribs) 
:In your opinion. But Wikipedia doesn't work that way.  Wikipedia is not a how-to.  If you wish to go debate that policy and get some kind of exception, please go do that.  It would be much more sensible to carefully avoid how to advice in the first place, and direct readers to Wikibooks for instructions.  You can put all the safety warnings you want over there.<P>Please do not keep edit warring. The consensus is against you and you should stop reverting as long as that is the case. --Dbratland (talk) 21:36, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Have you read WP:NOTHOWTO?  --Dbratland (talk) 01:01, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Have you read "Jump start (vehicle)"Wdl1961 (talk) 01:15, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  == safety == if one accident will be prevented it is worth it 

message: Every time I look at that picture, I think it's not right. Could we not find a picture with (black and red clamps together) (coil of heavy wire) (black and red clamps together), which woudl be more like you'd see in actual use. Having two red clamps at one end and two black at the other end just looks wrong. I had posted a picture of my own set of cables which at least had the clips paired up in the usual way. --Wtshymanski (talk) 13:45, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Booster cables picture

message: I don't really mind if controversial and uncited material is removed, especially if it has been tagged. But it's a huge step backwards to blank several cited paragraphs and rewrite the article to a stub with zero citations. I would argue that if an editor came here to make this article better, he should bring some sources to cite with him. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 22:44, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree that its a "step backward". Reviewing the "sources" shows its something some dude slapped together, which means that its some bro's work from the world of the Internets which for our purposes is just as good as uncited. Per WP:RS and WP:USERG, personal websites of some random people are not acceptable. The trimming also removed a ton of "opinion pieces" and advise materials, because we're not somewhere that offers advise.  I also changed all vehicles to equipment/devices and Int. cmb. engines, since jump start is applicable anything having an engine. Citing to personal homepages create a false perception of referenced article while its just a bunch of opinion gibberish. So, I find the current state reflects the conditions of the article better. Please explain your restoration of trash spam site like jumpstarterreviewsforyou.com/ and bitwalla.com  Cantaloupe2 (talk) 20:27, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The only personal sites were in the external links section, so I deleted those. The footnotes were to published sources such as vehicle owners' manuals, the Bosch Automotive Handbook 4th Edition, Road Management and Engineering Journal, Popular Mechanics, The Savvy Guide to Motorcycle and so on. Please do not blank cited material again. If you want to make a positive contribution, please find better sources and cite them in footnotes. It's ironic that you complain of personal web pages when this version is tantamount to your own personal home page, filled with your opinions and no reliable sources at all. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 20:35, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Read the sources and prose. You'll find that its not a proper summarizing when you scrutinize the sources. Issues of WP:HOWTO is already in place as you can see in discussion and you added those back as well. Per WP:ONUS challenged contents are removed. Anyways, I will restructure this over the next few days, so let me do my things, ok?  Cantaloupe2 (talk) 20:42, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Per WP:ONUS the cited material stays. You deleted cited facts from the NHSTA on the number of deaths caused by jump starting. Why? What you have written is uncited, if you want to throw around WP:ONUS, the get rid of your uncited original reseach and put back the footnoted facts.<P>You are also wrong about WP:NOTHOWTO. It says "Describing to the reader how other people or things use or do something is encyclopedic; instructing the reader in the imperative mood about how to use or do something is not." It is perfectly acceptable to describe to the reader how jump starting is done. It is perfectly acceptable to state facts like connecting the cables backwards will casue an explosion, especially when quality sources like "Haynes Repair Manual, Toyota Corolla 1984 thru 1992. pp. 5–2. " are cited. The prohibition against how to advice is that it is unecncylopedic to say, "first do this, then do this, then do this." Nothing in the article is written that way, "in the imperative", and if you think any of it is, then all you have to do is reword it so that is no longer in the imperative mood.<P>If you need time to work, why don't you create a workpage and finish your research, and then come back when you're done? The version of the article you want to go live with now is uncited opinions and it violates WP:ONUS. The material you deleted is better cited than what you are trying to replace it with. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 21:03, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: When you compare the prose and cited materials, they don't necessarily agree. Some rambling on about some very older, motor cycles 6v blah blah blah didn't originate from the source. This is synthesized junk. All it says is that some are 6v, some are 12v and that they're not interchangeable. If you've been following the changes, you'll see that I reintroduced the part about injury statistics. See Table 1 in the originally cited source. <url>http://www.usroads.com/journals/rmej/9808/rm980801.htm</url>. Since it just says its a reproduction of original, and whoever did it reproduced it incorrectly, I replaced it with the ORIGINAL <url>http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/97840.PDF</url>. See table 1 again.  Cited does not mean that summary is correct. and if the summary is wrong, deletion of that portion is warranted. I'm also working on removing references to vehicles' owner's manual and replacing them with a few general sources. The vehicle owner's manuals are written specific to that vehicle and the suggestion of say, connection points don't necessarily apply to others. I look forward to your response.  Cantaloupe2 (talk) 20:23, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Now we're getting somewhere. You dispute that most older motorcycles were 6V but now they're all 12V? You feel there should be a citations for that? WP:Verifiability says, "any material whose verifiability has been challenged or is likely to be challenged, must include an inline citation that directly supports the material" Until now nobody suggested this fact was controversial and so it wasn't footnoted. This is why it's better to be specific about what the problem is instead of doing mass deletions. A footnote can be provided for this basic fact if that is where the problem is.  --Dennis Bratland (talk) 22:25, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

text: What happened to this article? Where's all the content?  Why have we moved it? What happened to the English? --Wtshymanski (talk) 20:31, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent mass deletion 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Jump start (vehicle). Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20070814023750/http://www.preventblindness.org:80/safety/battery.html to http://www.preventblindness.org/safety/battery.html
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20100122153908/http://www.carcare.org:80/car-care-articles/jumper-cables to http://www.carcare.org/car-care-articles/jumper-cables
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Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 01:25, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: RE: .
Why would a video make this article better? It sounds like yet another attempt to stuff how-to advice into the article. See WP:NOTHOWTO. There's no reason why you can't have an encyclopedic description of connecting cables with only a couple still images. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 19:18, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Video? Why?