Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment/Larvatus

message: I think that most of the evidence presented here establishes that neither FCYTravis, Demi, nor FloNight have a firm grasp of what it is that is being said by Larvatus/Zeleny in the articles they've challenged, and that that this RFC arises out of their confusion. 
For example, FCYTravis describes the passage from WebEx "By compounding the use of WebEx assets for hush money with employing WebEx corporate counsel to defend himself in the lawsuit and accuse Zeleny of libel, Zhu has confirmed the self-dealing Zeleny alleged." as "unsourced stuff." The passage only says that Zeleny has alleged self-dealing on the part of WebEx management, and that 5000 shares of company stock to Erin Zhu to settle her suit against her father (Min Zhu, WebEx CEO) for sexual abuse and Min Zhu's use of corporate counsel to sue Zeleny for defamation are line with Zeleny's allegation of self dealing. 
What part of this does FCYTravis think should be sourced? Zeleny's initial allegation of self dealing? Zeleny makes that allegation at his blog and at the Yahoo! Finance messageboard for webx many times over. Erin Zhu's allegation of sexual abuse against her father? Here: . Erin Zhu went after her father for sexual abuse? Here's Erin Zhu's attorney suing her for failing to pay him for handling that case:  Erin Zhu having 5000 shares of WebEx stock? Here:  WebEx's corporate counsel representing Zhu after he's stepped down? Here: .  I could go on with the other  evidence offered, and but I think objective, responsible editors will look beyond the sensationalism found in the complaint and see that reporting that the CEO of a publicly-traded company being accused of child molestation by his own daughter is a matter public concern and should continue to be covered here. Our job is to report the facts, and that Erin Zhu has publicly accused her father of sexual abuse is a fact . FeloniousMonk 11:08, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Precisely.  There are a couple of related AfDs and some debate on the talk pages, in each case I have told him that all he has to do is cite reliable, verifiable, trusted secondary sources - police reports, FBI wanted ads, national newspaper reports of the abuse, not of his allegation of it - but he posts the same old falsifiable links.  As long as that remains the case, I for one will continue to excise these allegations on sight. - Just zis  Guy, you know? [T]/[C] AfD? 22:40, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I would even accept less than that. If we had any police reports, newspaper reports, TV coverage, etc. of her making these allegations, it *might* be encyclopedic. But there is *none* - not a single piece. I know that Mr. Zeleny has alleged that she got some sort of stock payoff and "hush money" and whatnot - and that very well might be the case, I'm not denying the possibility. But there's no reliable sources reporting these allegations. There's nothing other than a bunch of pieces which *might* add up to something. They very well *might not.* Wikipedia cannot publish a strung-together bunch of "mights" that have not been published or reported on in any verifiable sources. If this were a widely-held *might* - like Kennedy theories - it could be encyclopedic - but there's no evidence available that anyone other than Zeleny has made or published these charges - which makes them unencyclopedic. The most we can verify is that Mr. Zeleny was involved in a legal dispute with the Zhus and protested a WebEx conference, causing its cancellation. Whether that's notable, I don't know. FCYTravis 22:51, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Wikipedia defines a reliable source as a source very close to the original state of affairs you are writing about. It goes on to say that Wikipedia articles may rely on primary sources so long as what they say has been published by a credible publication. For example, a trial transcript has been published by the court. At issue between us is the nature of Erin Zhu's allegations of child rape by her father Min Zhu and your ablity to verify them. I have in my possession records of Usenet postings, private correspondence, interview transcripts, civil complaints, and deposition testimony, officially authenticated by their creators. Would Demi, FCYTravis, FloNight, Just zis  Guy, you know?, and Pierremenard be satisfied in their concerns by my uploading these materials to Wikisource? If not, why not? Larvatus 16:30, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia also defines a reliable source as explicitly excluding blogs, usenet and bulletin boards. Which are the only sources you've cited for the abuse allegations. - Just zis  Guy, you know? [T]/[C] AfD? 20:35, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Weak evidence, weak basis for this RFC

message: Since there is no longer any debate here and the case moved to Arbcom ages ago I move that this RfC is closed. Just zis  Guy, you know? [T]/[C]  14:08, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll second that motion. : )  --FloNight 14:25, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move to close