Talk:Kkangpae

message: This article has been in glaring violation of Wikipedia:Verifiahnjnjbility since its inception.  Can someone please provide some sources -- any sources -- for the information here? -- Visviva 09:16, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed.  I have restubbed the article and removed the original research.  One of the external links I removed wasn't even relevant, it was about the Chinese mafia.  There are two sources to work from now, and the second paper leads to additional outside sources, such as USA Today and The New York Times so I believe there is still hope here as long as we diligently WP:CITE new additions going forward.  Can't sleep, clown will eat me 22:27, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Verifiability 

message: Korean Mafia is based on Province/Region. Kyungsang- Pa, Cholla-Pa, Buk Chosun-Pa, Yanbian Pa, etc.
Jjokpok: translates in Korean Organized Criminal.  KKangpae: translates in Korean street gangs. I have never heard of Korlords.
KCIA ( Korea Central Intelligence Agency) said there are 4-6 Million full time hardcore Korean Mafia members in South Korea.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Koreanpeninsulatoday (talk • contribs) 14:04, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I would generally agree.  Can you recommend some better sources for this article subject?  -- Visviva 05:13, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  errors 

message: I am a Korean American.  I have never heard of Koreans Living in Miami, let alone having a large enough population to have a gang in Miami.  Where did you get your information? I believe the Author of this article is making things up.  I read the discussion Article "errors".  I live in the L.A Koreatown and I can tell you the Author of "Errors", Knows what he is talking about and is correct in many of the errors he points out.  
As a Korean American it makes me very sad to see such blatant mistakes made against my people.  If the Author of this article is Korean, you should be ashamed.  KORAM38 07:00, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is this made up? 

message: Since the attempt to get rid of the (unsourced and dubious) list entirely was not successful, and since the anon edit wars over that list were preventing the healthy growth of this article, I have moved that information to List of Korean American gangs.  Please, if anyone has any reliable sources on this topic, go to that article and help sort things out.  Thanks, -- Visviva 14:32, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed list 

message: Majority of Korean American criminals join other gangs such as Chinese, Vietnamese, Filipino, Khmer, etc.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Indacut (talk • contribs) 02:06, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reality of Korean criminals. 

message: I've always been very interested in organized crime from a sociological stand point and information on the "Korean Mob" in English is very scarce as in my experience most Koreans are ashamed of the topic and feel that it is not something to be spoken of. With that in mind this article is very interesting for me on the surface. However much of it is so poorly written and biased it is pathetic. Personally I feel like the author is a seventeen year old Korean-American kid trying to sound like a toughguy. The way the article strains to make these Korean gangsters into heroes or victims of society is more than a little over the top. Again the writing feels like a drunk Korean-American teenager trying to impress his non-Korean friends with stories his dad or uncle have told him about gangsters, while at the same time trying to show that his people are honorable and good... I have had this conversation in Korean bars more times than I can remember. But I have also had more educated conversations on the topic with other Koreans as well as done a good amount of reading on the Japanese Yakuza (which seems to run in a nearly identical way) and I will say that the more basic info here seems pretty on. My best friend's uncle was apparently involved in this back in the 80s. He's missing his pinky (which is the standard Yakuza punishment, perhaps the Korean Mob one as well?) and will romantically talk about the yakuza and korean gangsters in the "old days when they had honor," but never goes into much detail beyond that. 
There's a few other complaints above that I feel like have been addressed so I won't go into them. But one that I disagree with a bit is that the article is "racist." The use of the word "heads" being racist is silly and has nothing to do with other uses of the word "head," that would be like reading an article about wild donkeys that uses the term "arabian wild ass" and saying it is offensive for associating wild donkeys with the human anus. The only problem for me is that it is just unprofessional as it is slang and if used at all should use quotations. One last thing on the term 'heads'... the only people I've ever heard use it consistently are actually some Korean/Chinese-American friends whenever they talk about gang bosses in general... be them the Koreans, Italians, or Chinese. They always say "young heads" or "old heads;" I had personally thought the term was an Asian thing *shrug* As far as the talk about the elders and respect goes... I do see what you're saying, it is misleading and poorly written and I can see where offense could be taken, but I don't think the author meant it that way. Fact is that age is a much bigger factor in Asian culture than it is in others and thus it is a bigger factor in Asian gangs than it is in others and I'd like to think the author was just trying to stress that in the traditional Korean mob you could be the smartest guy in the crew, but you still have to answer to your elders. However all Koreans, not just gangsters, use terms like 'hyung' and 'oppa,' so I do completely understand where people might have a problem with how that part was worded. The other thing is the talk of the sool jibs... for one I go to sool jobs all the time with my Korean friends and we are not gangsters, and as said previously in almost all cultures (and thus criminal organizations) people go out to drink to bond and have fun. That said, again I don't think the author was trying to say that if you go to sool jibs you're a gangster or only Koreans go out and drink... I think it is just incredibly poor writing combined with a kid trying to brag about knowledge of his family's culture by using Korean words. 
As for those of you calling for the deletion of the article or criticizing it for bringing in historical periods; there are plenty of articles about the Italian Mafia and Japanese Yakuza that deal with these same things, yet are well written and professional articles. I simply think this article needs a major edit. Get read of the biased writing and I think it would be alright. Some sources would be nice as well, but with this type of thing one must remember that they aren't always available other than word of mouth from someone's uncle or grandfather.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.35.85.84 (talk) 10:37, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article needs ALOT of work 

message: In the beginning of the section, it is stated many Koreans were raped, enslaved, abused and killed. I know of comfort women and forced workers, but to my knowledge there was no systematical killing (or abuse for that matter) of Koreans by the Japanese. Unless someone can come with a source that many Koreans received mistreatment in the form of abuse and murder, I think I will either rewrite or remove the text. --Raubfreundschaft (talk) 16:44, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Occupation years section 

message: Sorry for my English. I'm Korean. I saw this article. I strongly insist that This is total made up. total lie. double dragon?? h.s.s mob?? what is that?? "pattern of seven stars on their chest." ROFL..never heard that.--61.105.165.243 (talk) 16:16, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  This maybe total lie 

message: The article is poorly sourced. This article has a lot of external links, but doesn't provide sources for the paragraphs within the article. However, I don't understand why many of the users on this talk page can't believe that organized crime does exist in South Korea. I find it very sad that many of the users claim racism on this article. The world is not like the movies or tv shows showing the typical Black and Hispanic gangs. In the real world bad people exist every, and it doesn't matter what race or color they are. Here are some sources I found in both English and Korean that supports some of what is written within the article. Please help improve this article.---- BlueRedPurpleGreen (talk) 07:29, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Organized crime

message: (I'm Korean. I can read english but can't write, so someone translation plz)
나는 매우 답답한데.. 이 항목은 누군가가 장난으로 약간의 사실을 덧붙여서 지어낸 가짜 항목입니다.나는 영어를 읽는것은 가능하지만 쓰는것은 부족하기 때문에 누군가가 (한국어를 아는 교포라던가) 내 글을 번역해주면 참 좋겠습니다. 이 글은 전체적으로 한국 조직폭력단에 대한 이해가 매우 부족한 글이며 부정확한 항목이 너무 많은 글입니다.
일단 Kkangpae 라 써놓은 제목부터 좀 조직폭력단을 설명하는것과는 맞지 않다. 깡패는 옛날엔 조직폭력배를 지칭했지만 시대적 변화로 Organization crime 보다는 thug 에 가까운 의미로 변질되었다. 한국에선 깡패는 단순한 불량배에 더 가까우며 조직화된 범죄조직은 조직폭력배 (약칭 jopok) 나 폭력단이라 부르고 그들 스스로는 건달(Gundal) 이라 부른다. 
그리고 3대 갱이니 뭐니 써놓은 H.S.S mob 이니 Double dragon이니 하는건 모조리 다 허구의 기사로 실제로 한국에 이런 조직은 존재하지 않는다. 칠성파는 존재하고 매우 유명하지만 설명이 우스꽝 스럽고 (예컨대 : pattern of seven stars on their chest) 사실이 아닌것이 많다. 한국의 조직명에 대해 이해가 부족한데.. 한국은 오랜 군사독재의 여파로 범죄단체를 구성하는것 자체로 그 두목에게 사형까지 가능한 나라이다. 약칭 범단이라 불리는 이 법은 위헌시비가 매우 많지만 어쨌든 지금도 명백히 존재하는 법인데, 이러한 구성요건을 만족시키기 위해선 조직명이라던가 조직체계, 조직강령등이 필요하다. 그렇기 때문에 범죄 조직들은 그러한 것들이 존재하지만 이름이나 강령등을 절대 특정하지 않고 스스로 만들거나 공개하지 않는다. 결국 경찰이나 검찰이 이들을 잡아넣기 위해 "임의로" 조직명을 멋대로 붙여서 한개의 조직체계를 구성하는 것이다.  예컨대 칠성파는 근거지가 "칠성다방" 근처였기 때문에 검찰이 멋대로 붙인 이름이다. 다만 너무 유명해젔기 때문에 조직원들 스스로도 그 이름을 통용하고 있는 것이다. http://news.naver.com/main/read.nhn?mode=LSD&mid=sec&sid1=102&oid=112&aid=0002302709
현대의 한국의 조직폭력배는 오랜 군사독재의 여파로 매우 구성이 복잡하며 야쿠자나 마피아처럼 확연한 영토나 조직체계가 정해젔기 보다는 여러 조직들이 연합해서 사업체를 관리하거나 조직원을 우호조직끼리 빌려쓰고 하는 경우도 비일비재 하다. 특히 진짜 두목(회장이라 불리우는 자들)들은 뒤에 숨어있으면서 조직이 없는것처럼 행세하는데 위에도 설명한 범단때문에 조직의 수괴로 몰리는걸 꺼리기 때문이다. 평상시엔 조직이 없는것처럼 행동하다가 큰 사업을 할때면 하부의 조직을 '빌려 쓰는' 형태를 취하면서 경찰의 수사를 피하는 것이다. 한국영화 비열한 거리(dirty carnival) 에 이러한 모습이 아주 정확하게 나와있는데 극중에 나오는 "황 회장"은 조직의 두목급 인사지만 실제 조직은 "상철" 이나 "병두"가 운용하는것이 바로 이러한 모습이다. 이러한 황 회장 같은 인물들을 한국에선 반달(half gangster)로 부른다.  이런식으로 은밀하게 지하에 숨어있기 때문에 누가 진짜 두목인지 누가 실세급 두목인지 구분하기 어렵고 조직 체계나 이름의 정확성을 특정하기 매우 어렵다. 그런데도 불구하고 3대 조직이니 뭐니 하면서 환송성파니 더블 드래곤이니 하는것을 잔뜩 써놨으니 얼마나 우스운가? 
오히려 환송성파 설명 마지막에 써놓은 북문파(Buk moon pa -  literally Northern gate gang) 가 실제 하는 조직이며 그나마 한국에서 이름이 있는 조직이다. 북문파 같은 경우 수원 북문 시장쪽에 근거지를 두고 성장했기 때문에 경찰로 하여금 북문파란 이름을 얻었으며 수원의 남문파,역전파와 함께 3대 파이다. 
뿐만아니라 25000-30000 이라고 정해놓은 숫자도 전혀 출처를 알 수 없는 것으로 그렇게까지 조직의 규모가 크지 않다. 한국 조직폭력단은 매우 비밀스러운 지하조직이기 때문에 야쿠자 처럼 대놓고 사업을 할 수가 없어 거대한 조직을 이루는것은 무리이다. 여러 언론보도에 따르면 한국의 조직폭력배 숫자는 경찰추산으로 약 5500명 정도로 파악하고 있는데 언론보도에서 나온 숫자는 경찰 범죄 관리명부에서 나온 숫자를 근거로 하기 때문에 사실이 아니며 실제로는 더 많지만 그렇다고 수만명 규모에 이르진 않고 있다. 즉 정확한 숫자는 누구도 모른다. 대저 5500~10000 명정도로 보는게 합당하다.http://news.naver.com/main/read.nhn?mode=LSD&mid=sec&sid1=102&oid=014&aid=0003002983
한국의 유명한 조직이나 조폭들은 모두 5~60년대 유명했던 3대 패밀리 (김두한,이화룡,이정재)의 조직으로부터 갈라저 나왔거나 부산이나 대구,광주,천안,전주 같은 지방에서 근거로 성장한 조직들이 있으며 전국에서 이름이 통하는 조폭들은 흔히 전국구 두목이라 부르고 지역에서 이름을 쓰는 조직은 지역구 두목이라 부른다. 그리고 야쿠자나 마피아 같이 거리에서 총을 난사하기 보다는 칼을 더 좋아하는 경향이 있다. 과거 3대 패밀리 시절엔 미국 마피아 처럼 거리에서 총을 난사하기도 했으나 상기에서 설명한것처럼 군사독재의 영향으로 수많은 조폭들이 감옥이나 삼청교육대로 끌려가서 모진 탄압을 받았기 때문에 사회적으로 큰 소란을 피우는것을 꺼리는 것이다. 그러니 arms trafficking 같은 항목 역시 잘못되었다. 현대의 한국 조직폭력배들은 금융업,주식계열,건설업,유흥업,경호사업 등등 합법적 사업을 하는 경우가 많으며 도박업이나 갈취,사채,매춘,마약 밀수를 하는 경우도 있다. 
또한 한국의 조직폭력배는 오랫동안 정치권과 유착해왔는데 자유당 시절에 3대 패밀리가 정치계와 유착한 것, 군사독재 시절 군사정권의 탄압에 굴복하여 그들의 하수인 노릇을 한것이 대표적인 예이다. 1976년에 신민당 각목사건이 특히 유명하다.
또 야쿠자나 중국 흑사회 조직들,홍콩과 대만의 삼합회, 러시아 마피아와도 국제적인 교류를 하고 있으며 딱히 해외조직과 Rival 관계는 보이지 않는다. Various asian streetgang 이 rival 이라는 것은 무슨 의미인가? 미국의 한국계 스트릿 갱스터가 그러한 것이 있다고 해도 한국 조직폭력배와는 구분해야 한다.
그외에 쓸 글이 많지만 번역의 어려움이 보이므로 줄이도록 합니다. 누군가가 한국어를 아시는 분이 제 글을 번역해서 이 엉망진창인 글을 좀 수정했으면 좋겠네요. 영어 쓰기 실력이 부족하니 답답하군요.
참고할 만한 기사와 책들 
http://news.naver.com/main/read.nhn?mode=LSD&mid=sec&sid1=102&oid=037&aid=0000015368 - 커버스토리 주먹계 어제와 오늘을 말하다.
http://book.naver.com/bookdb/book_detail.nhn?bid=5337819 - 대한민국 주먹을 말하다. (현재까지 나온 책 중 가장 훌륭한 책임)
http://news.naver.com/main/read.nhn?mode=LSD&mid=sec&sid1=100&oid=262&aid=0000001777 - 한국의 전국구 두목 중 하나인 조창조 인터뷰
http://book.naver.com/bookdb/book_detail.nhn?bid=7305415 - 한국의 전국구 두목 중 하나인 신상사 자서전
http://www.ilyosisa.co.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=68668 - 전국 조폭 동향 보고서
http://www.ilyoseoul.co.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=91890 - 전국 조폭 지도 서울 부분
http://news.naver.com/main/read.nhn?mode=LSD&mid=sec&sid1=102&oid=262&aid=0000000450 - 김태촌,조양은 40년 흥망사
http://blog.naver.com/coda0314/87133600 - 김두한의 후계자인 조일환 인터뷰
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvCQ1FTKCNo - 깡패와 건달로 본 100년 1부 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_DzQUSmsa8 - 깡패와 건달로 본 100년 2부
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfm5NZ0ftcY - 주먹계 대부 김태촌은 누구인가
http://shindonga.donga.com/docs/magazine/shin/2005/01/10/200501100500037/200501100500037_1.html - 조폭 수사를 한 조승식 검사 이야기
222.232.181.241 (talk) 21:19, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Translation please

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I am a Korean who writes over there, but I am borrowing the power of Google Translator because of lack of English. Im very upset. because of edit war. As you can see from the view history, user:2405:4800:148f:1e1d:c091:cbc5:46f5:fd32 continues to lie.I delete that fictional made up article. but He continues to write false article. how can i report him? I don't know English wikipedia report system. The content in the article is fairly wrong, and it continues to produce something close to fan fiction.
example : Chilsung pa, and Buk mun pa is real. but Hss mob and Double dragon are Perfect fiction. and The description that depicts the Chilsugn pa and the Buk mun pa is also ridiculous and unfavorable. Chil sung pa Gangster in the Busan city is very famous organization. but there are no Seven Founder(and two dead? wtf??). Korean gang organizations do not name organizations themselves. because 폭력행위 등 처벌에 관한 법률https://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/%ED%8F%AD%EB%A0%A5%ED%96%89%EC%9C%84_%EB%93%B1_%EC%B2%98%EB%B2%8C%EC%97%90_%EA%B4%80%ED%95%9C_%EB%B2%95%EB%A5%A0. all of gangster organization is illegal in S.Korea. so They are do not make up the name of the organization themselves. If they do, they would prove themselves guilty. So That's why the name of the Korean gang is made by the police. The Chilsung pa was named Chilsung pa because it was an activity area near Chilsung Cafe downtown in Busan.http://jj.heraldcorp.com/view.php?ud=20180717000495 There are no Seven Founder. and "Their gang tattoo is a pattern of seven stars on their chest." What???? Is it comic cartoon?? total lie.  Hwan Song Sung Pa and Ssang Yong Pa The Double Dragon are also total made up article. no one know that organizations. Even if you search for "환송성파", there is no news, and related search terms are derived from the faked false articles of English Wiki. https://www.google.com/search?q=%22%ED%99%98%EC%86%A1%EC%84%B1%ED%8C%8C%22&rlz=1C1SQJL_koKR856KR856&oq=%22%ED%99%98%EC%86%A1%EC%84%B1%ED%8C%8C%22&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i60.2493j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 쌍용파(Doble dragon) is also same.  https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1SQJL_koKR856KR856&biw=1920&bih=937&tbm=nws&ei=BTouXYDuBcT88AX5pqLQDQ&q=%22%EC%8C%8D%EC%9A%A9%ED%8C%8C%22&oq=%22%EC%8C%8D%EC%9A%A9%ED%8C%8C%22&gs_l=psy-ab.3...2125.3029.0.3268.2.2.0.0.0.0.127.246.0j2.2.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.Dlixy7mRAns The explanation of Buk mun pa is somewhat similar. North gate is Suwon 장안문 (https://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/%EC%9E%A5%EC%95%88%EB%AC%B8). Buk mun pa was named because it was active around.But it is not in the context that suddenly the organization description is included in the paragraph describing the 1990s. and The name of the Hss mob or Doble dragon is not visible on this map either. http://www.ilyoseoul.co.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=91608  so user 2405 is continues to lie. I am very tired and irritable. how can I report him? or Is there anyone who can report him for me? very tired.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 39.123.75.161 (talk) 21:10, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  How can I report troller?