Talk:Classical Gaelic

message: :Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *Support or *Oppose, then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.
*Oppose; whether Early Modern Irish is an "appropriate" name for the language isn't the issue. Whether the term "Classical Gaelic" is actually "not crippled by an inappropriate nationalistic/ethnic association" and is actually as "unambiguous and ethnically, geographically and politically neutral" as An Siarach would have us believe is highly doubtful, but the point is irrelevant anyway. As shown by the #Google results above, Early Modern Irish is (by far) the most commonly used name for the language in English, which is the criterion by which Wikipedia articles are named. —Angr If you've written a quality article... 13:24, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I dont see what's loaded about the term "classical". "Classical Gaelic" is a term used by major universities and very frequently in literature. There isnt a consensus in usage or there wouldnt be a vote ongoing. Both "Early modern Irish" and "classical Gaelic" are used by universities and both are used in published works. However while the former is ambiguous and explicitly uses an inappropriately national piece of nomenclature the latter carries no ambiguity and uses the term "Gaelic" which is the English rendering of the native name for every Gaelic language (Irish: Gaeilge; Scottish Gàidhlig; Manx Gaelg) and is cognate to the older form of these words used as a name for the language with which the article is concerned - Classical Gaelic: Gaoidhealg. Classical/Common Gaelic was not used exclusively in Ireland or by Irish Gaelic speakers and thus certainly should not be termed "Early Modern Irish" or any other kind of "Irish"  when it is quite simply a form of Gaelic shared by the Gaels of Great Britain and of Ireland. siarach (talk) 11:09, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: I agree with Angr that "Early Modern Irish" is by far the most commonly used term in English for this particular stage in the development of the Goidelic language(s), as is borne out in the volume of linguistic literature on the topic. I personally had never heard of "Classical Gaelic" or "Classical Common Gaelic" until I came here but I think An Siarach and Deacon have supplied sufficient evidence to show that Scottish Gaels, at least, use these terms regularly. I can understand how Scottish Gaels would be annoyed at the use of "Irish" for a language which they quite rightly feel is as much theirs as ours. Studies of Goidelic languages and dialects have certainly been overly hibernocentric in scope. I take Siarach's point about all of the various forms which speakers use to name their own language being essentially one and the same thing at the end of the day. (Incidentally, my family, my various relations and I, being from the Cork and Kerry Gaeltachtaí use only "Gaelainn" or "Gaelaing" never "Gaeilge", it being the Connacht form). However, as an Irish speaker, I find the term "Gaelic" being used in English to describe my own language uncomfortable at best. I don't believe this to be our fault as Goidelic speakers. Unfortunately, a small but vociferous body of anti-Irish language bigots have made "Gaelic", by insisting on using it instead of "Irish", a term which most Irish speakers dislike and avoid. I also see nothing wrong with calling the language as spoken here in Ireland "Irish". I believe very strongly that I am Irish and that my country is Ireland because of the Irish language. Certainly, way back, the Irish language and the Goidelic languages were one and the same thing until Scottish and Manx evolved to a stage where they could be called distinct languages in their own right. 
Anyway, I'm rambling. Might it be possible to compromise by calling the article "Early Modern Irish/Classical Common Gaelic" or even mentioning that it's commomly called "Classical Common Gaelic" by Scottish Gaels or even call it "Common Classical Goidelic" or "Classical Goidelic"? I'm also thinking of a compromise on the lines of "Serbo-Croat". It would be sheer lunacy having two articles for the same thing. I agree with Angr that renaming the article as "Classical Common Gaelic" would merely cause problems for those who might come on here looking for "Early Modern Irish" and fail to find it. An Muimhneach Machnamhach (talk) 22:11, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Compromise? 

message: An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Gaoidhealg. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so.  buidhe 05:23, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Gaoidhealg" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]]