Talk:Women's rights in Iran

message: Hello Sangak
I think you should also mention in this article about the difference of modern Persian women's movement, and the ancient one. because the actual Persian women's movement started from the time of Cyrus the Great.
Also I will translatete your article to Persian so we can put it in Persian Wiki as well.
--Kaaveh 11:35, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for your comments. I surely agree with you. I suggest this article to be focused on 19th and 20th century with a short reference to ancient and pre modern movement while Iranian women page is mainly devoted to the ancient Iran and a short reference to the modern one.
Indeed this was my original idea. I think It is very important to keep Iranian women page in a safe position and keeping it away from attacks. Modern movement is very controversial and may produce huge controversies. As such I decided to initial the article. This is inline with the article: Intellectual movements in Iran. 
Thanks for translation. I will also try to collect more info. dastetoon dard nakoneh! --Sangak11:54, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  If you can add some info, that would be great. I am planning to concentrate on literary criticism, music, modern art and possibly some medical issues (contraception, family planning etc). I am looking for those women who took ground breaking steps but their names have been forgotten in the history. 
Also "influence of Iranian movement on non Iranians in the region (middle east and central asia)" is some thing I am keen on figuring out. --Sangak12:58, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Feel free to edit them out--HoneymaneHeghlu meH QaQ jajvam 07:19, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: numerous appearance of "girl" is due to word by word translation from persian. girl can refers to women of teenage (and younger ofcourse) and also to women of all ages as in "girls of Iran" a common phrase in persian. Feel free to replace "girl" with "woman" if it sounds unusual for  English language speakers.Sangak 16:49, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Shouldn't this article mention human rights issues in Iran? mirageinred 22:56, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No! Human rights issues are discussed here and here. This article covers what Iranian women did themselves not what others (Iranian men and Iranian government) did to women.  Sangak Talk 19:21, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What if Iranian women fought back the injustices? Isn't that worthy of mention? mirageinred 20:16, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Of course it will be included! For instance One Million Signatures, Tahmineh Milani's feminist cinema and Shahla Sherkat's magazine, Qamar ol-Molouk Vaziri's musical performance in public (among others) have been included in the article. Please read the section on Women's movement in late 20th century.  Sangak Talk 21:23, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  comment from an outsider 

message: The current TOC reads:
# Women in The Persian Constitutional Revolution
# Women in The Iranian Revolution
# Iranian women and contemporary Persian literature
# Iranian women and Persian music
# Iranian women and education
# Iranian women and modern art
# Iranian women and Sports
# Women's health in modern Iran
# Women's movement in the late 20th and early 21st centuries
# Women's studies in Iranian Universities
# Women's movements in the Iranian cultural continent
Shouldn't that just be the following?
# The Persian Constitutional Revolution
# The Iranian Revolution
# Contemporary Persian literature
# Persian music
# Education
# Modern art
# Sports
# Women's health in modern Iran
# Women's movement in the late 20th and early 21st centuries
# Women's studies in Iranian Universities
# Women's movements in the Iranian cultural continent
-- Sundar \talk \contribs 07:27, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Subheadings 

message: Massive typo:"Such education and social trends are increasingly viewed with alarm by the Iranian secularists and opposition groups" - this should read 'Iranian authorities' not secularists and opposition (check reference 33)
grezoc
82.35.102.252 (talk) 17:29, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  typo

message: I saw this on the cleanup taskforce list and set out to clean up the spacing on the images. In the process, I decided to fill out the Literature section a bit. However, I added info about one of the books being banned, and upon reflection, I wonder if it's not just a bit out of place in this article. So, if anyone objects to it, feel free to remove the mention.Phyesalis (talk) 09:14, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Possible POV

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Zoya Pirzad book.jpg

message: WHY does this article mention NOTHING about the extensive rights that Iranian women enjoyed under Mohammed Reza Pahlavi? He wasn't perfect or wholly democratic, but he gave many rights to women. The right to vote, the option to not wear headcoverings, equality with men; come on, you have to mention that!
--Simfan34 (talk) 01:30, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  The article is about what women achieved themselves and not what was granted to them (or taken from them) by various regimes. Having said that, It is a good idea to have a section on that period.  Sangak Talk 19:14, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  What about the Pahlavi Dynasty? 

message: :Image:Mehre madari.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Mehre madari.jpg

message: I am deeply disappointed in the editors of this article given the state I found it.  Given that there is no Women's rights in Iran article, this article must fill that void.  The reasoning given on this talk page to keep it circumcised in scope, while completely neglecting the history of the country, and even factually mischaracterizing it, made it completely useless for anyone doing research.  An article about Iranian women already exists, it's called Iranian women.  Put achievements by women there, which is more appropriate.  Or start an Achievements of Iranian women article. 
Khomeini was essentially hailed as helping women, while many important gains under the shah were never discussed.  In fact, women protested the Khomeini government at the outset.  The comments on this talk page by casual readers evidence that people were coming here to find out about the totality of the women's rights movement in Iran; and looking for a well-sourced article that does so.  If it is returned to its prior state, I will open this up for a RfC because I was very troubled by what I saw.  Statements like "The movement lasted until 1933 in which the last women’s association was dissolved by the Reza Shah’s government. It heightened again after the Iranian Revolution (1979)." are completely false.  No women were involved at all in the gains they made during the shah?  Not even his family members?  Additionally, statements like "Dramatic changes in the labor force might not have been possible if Khomeini had not broken the barriers to women entering into the public sphere unchaperoned." are not only OR, but they are false.  Women didn't need chaperones; permission, perhaps, but not chaperones.  There were almost no sources supporting such ridiculous pro-Khomeini statements (and such statements also hurt the contention that this article was about women's achievements made by women, since it is giving Khomeini credit for apparently liberating women from their homes...?).  --David Shankbone 01:59, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I respectfully disagree with you. For example the following statement: "Dramatic changes in the labor force might not have been possible if Khomeini had not broken the barriers to women entering into the public sphere unchaperoned."  is neither OR nor false. Please read this article  at Washington Institute's webpage!! We as editors need to be unbiased. Both Khomeini and Shah did positive and negative things. Sinooher (talk) 11:23, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Is http://www.watsoninstitute.org/bjwa/archive/9.2/Iran/Bahramitash.pdf a reliable source? It seems a pro-revolutionary polemic. --BoogaLouie (talk) 18:43, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Being reliable or unreliable has nothing to do with being pro-revolutionary or anti-revolutionary!! The author of the article is an academic in a well knwon canadian University: link Sinooher (talk) 15:06, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I am the one who re-wrote this article, and I was very pleased to hear just yesterday the highly regarded program All Things Considered do an in-depth look at the history of the women's rights movement in Iran, and it comported very, very closely with what I wrote:  Despite Odds, Women's Movement Persists In Iran.  Regarding the piece above, this is a Post-doctoral thesis, and its claims need to be sourced by multiple, scholarly-reviewed publications.  Additionally, the claims in the paper basically make the point that enjoyment of rights was a socio-economic issue, not a gender issue, and if we are to include the claims made by Bahramitash in her thesis, that context needs to be made clear.  --David Shankbone 19:44, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article was appalling and completely redone 

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thread_title:  Blacklisted Links Found on [[Women's rights in Iran]] 

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thread_title:  Blacklisted Links Found on [[Women's rights in Iran]] 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Love the information and think you are far beyond an initial contribution! Continue your great work and you will have a final contribution in no time. Add a few more sources and use those sources and you should be done! Cohoward (talk) 23:00, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:
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You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:42, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion 

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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 07:51, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion 

message: It could be useful the answer to my question as to the reliability of Iran-HRM in RSN, So I brought the question and answer here:
Is it OK to use the iran-hrm for the following the material in Women's rights in Iran article? Thanks, Saff V. (talk) 13:28, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: The reliability of Iran-HRM 

message: as you a user who knows Persian and English well, I wonder if you check this revert. I can't imagine the removal of sourced material just because I have been warned for POV. The removed sentences are the translation of ". some of them were in the article and I just added rest of them. Regards!Saff V. (talk) 13:08, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Sigh, read my comment again. I'm not questioning the reliability of your source, just add it properly, that's all I'm saying. Read Wikipedia:COMPETENCE. --HistoryofIran (talk) 13:14, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Khomeini's different views on voting 

message: , I think that the following material has nothing to do with "women right's in Iran". Doesn't it?
* --Saff V. (talk) 13:48, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: The relevant question is whether Howland is referring directly to Iran, or not. Vanamonde (Talk) 07:23, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  you mean that there is no connection. Don't you?Saff V. (talk) 11:41, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm telling you what the relevant question is from a policy perspective. I'm not going to go digging through the source to determine what the answer is, because, as I've said before, I'm acting in an administrative capacity here. I have not formed an opinion as to the actual relevance. Vanamonde (Talk) 11:58, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: It's impenetrable waffle,  What does it even mean? Baffle☿gab 03:17, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Non related material 

message: CC-BY-SA declaration; text in this section removed from the article by me; I've left it here in case its removal breaks any references.  Baffle☿gab 02:24, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed text

message: The source says that "Women’s rights are severely restricted in Iran, to the point where women are even forbidden from watching men’s sports in stadiums." while, Iranian women have been allowed to attend stadiums from November 2019. Why did you revert the edit?Saff V. (talk) 13:55, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Because the exact current situation regarding sports stadium attendances is not relevant in the lede of the article. If there is another independent reliable source which states that women's rights are now not severely restricted in Iran, please mention it here so that we may discuss updating and improving the lede with that new information. MPS1992 (talk) 18:30, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Revert

message: some sentences about Shohreh Bayat was mentioned in the article:
*
They are not relevant to the encyclopedia. I read two sources, there is any decision was made by Iran's government or any punishment for her was not applied by Iran. This is just her fear. I think this material is not encyclopedic.  can I ask you to leave a comment? Thanks!Saff V. (talk) 08:53, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: My comment is as follows: if you wish for me to evaluate something, please document your query with diffs. El_C 17:25, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  sorry. the diff of material and some correction (1 and 2) which was done by me.Saff V. (talk) 06:43, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

text: Sorry for the delay. Here is my take of it after a cursory glance at the material in dispute. Shohreh Bayat's fear was deemed worthy enough to be covered by a reliable source (The New York Times). Whether that fear was grounded in reality or not, is of interest to be sure, but not key in determining whether it is worthy of being mentioned in the article. El_C 19:35, 16 March 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Despite of the point mentioned by El_C, what I like to mention is, putting such a piece of detailed information into the general article about women's rights wouldn't be appropriate. It is just fear and we don't know really whether some rights are violated or not.Saff V. (talk) 11:52, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

text: My comment was neither in support of removal nor in support of retention. Resolution to this content dispute should be attempted in the usual way — through article talk page discussion, or if that reaches an impasse, the dispute resolution process and its accompanying requests. Goodluck to you both in reaching an amicable resolution to the dispute. El_C 15:19, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thank you for your reply. If your comment was neither in support of removal nor retention, is it right that Saff V. removed this from the article saying "Per TP: Shohreh Bayat"? Barca (talk) 11:08, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shohreh Bayat 

message: Should the following material be included in the article?
Saff V. (talk) 09:02, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Who are these "others"? Sahar Khodayari? And what has it anything to do with this? Also, it doesn't necessarily have to mention women rights to be included here, it's already clear as daylight that this is related to the (lack of) rights of women in Iran. --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:04, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: So you need to read my comment once again. She feared...so what? Are we going to list the name of all those who fear and those who does not fear? It must be directly related to the women's right in Iran and should add something to the article. --Mhhossein talk 17:11, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: That would be a endless list. No, I'd suggest we only gonna add the notable ones, which this one clearly is. "It must be directly related to the women's right in Iran", says who? I'd say this is pretty on-topic. --HistoryofIran (talk) 17:18, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

text: RSs thought that Shohreh Bayat's decision not to return to Iran because she was photographed without a hijab was notable. Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 10:04, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  RFC on Bayat's fear 

message: You made a revert saying that radio farda "is a hostile source to Iran".  Where us the proof that RF is a hostile source to Iran? Barca (talk) 15:47, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I have pointed some other issues with the content, the most serious one being DUE. Should we list every single incident of women being arrested? Also, the content does not say how it's something to be covered in Women's rights in Iran. As for the source, imagine RFE/RL is funded by US which is clearly hostile to Iran and I believe the subject of this article is close to its propagandistic mission. The issue with RF is discussed here which shows the usage is disputed. The users suggest attribution when using the source in for such a subject. Perhaps, as I asked in my edit summary, you need to find a better source and show it's a DUE content. --Mhhossein talk 01:19, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

text: you have not replied to my question. Do you have a problem with adding these to the article? Barca (talk) 08:40, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Which of the above is related to the disputed edit? --Mhhossein talk 14:26, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well, these other sources are also about the prohibition of women dancing online in Iran. I will take your response as saying you don't have a dispute with these new sources and will add them to the article. Thank you. Barca (talk) 11:03, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Barca: No, I don't agree with those additions. You should show how these are DUE and are connected to the subject without original research. --Mhhossein talk 12:25, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: @Mhhossein: Are you serious? For over two weeks I've been asking you if you have a problem with the sources. I have explained why the information is connected to the subject. If you don't agree, then you need to explain why the information is not connected to the subject Barca (talk) 12:58, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes very serious. You added the content, you need to say why those random mentions are DUE "women's right" issues. --Mhhossein talk 07:44, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

text: Hey Vanamonde, it's not that I'm yelling at him, it's just tiring to ask Mhhossein (for two weeks) if he has a problem with the edit without getting a response from him, and then when I include it in the article, he says he does not agree. Mhhossein, the sources talk about the Iranian government arresting women who have danced online, and then putting them on TV and making them apologise on air. The sources are reliable, and there is many of them. This is the reason why this is WP:DUE. Women not being allowed to dance in public is about Womens' rights. Barca (talk) 12:13, 18 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Radio Farda 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: Dancing is iligal in Iran even for men.What are these nonsense statements in this article?!Simsala111 (talk) 23:10, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  The use of headscarf in public is mandatory for women while dancing is prohibited?!