Talk:Copts/Archive 3

message: Somebody changed the latest Census date to 2005. I belive that CAPMAS (the egyptian census taking agency) runs decenial censuses and that the next one is scheduled for 2006 with results most likely not available until 2007. Numbers dated 2005 are therefore estimates and should be quoted as such. Feel free to correct me if am wrong on that. 
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Will someone please revert this page to before (10:50, 29 Jan 2005 Afanous) User_talk:Afanous#Coptic_et_al. --Alif 11:57, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Untitled and Misc. 

message: Might it be more apt and helpful to describe groups like the Copts and the Ulster-Scots as national, ethnic, sub-cultural, communal or sectarian groups within their respective societies? Which is more precise and neutral? //Big Adamsky 19:52, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: A [[Nation]]?

message: Changing the religion of a person does not mean that his ethnicity changed. When the Egyptians embraced Islam, their ethnicity didn't change. Egypt is a very special country. For thousands of years there was no significant emigrations from or into Egypt. Please note that the population of Egypt at the end of the pharaonic age was estimated to be 10 millions (currently 79 million, in 1956 18 million). However, the population of the Arab peninsula as a whole is less than this. So, it is not possible that intermarriages between Egyptians and Arabs could have changed the Egyptian ethnicity. The above link in this page to the CIA world fact book clarifies the matter.
--Meno25 10:53, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Copts are not of a different ethnicity 

message: I have re-updated that section I initially added to reflect that it is not conclusive as to the origin of the Copts. The claim that most Egyptians decend from the original native inhabitants is correct; my update reflects this, but that certain communities tend to reflect more closely the indigenous inhabitants, which doesn't include the Copts. I've done research providing a citation of at least one Egyptologist who shows that the Copts are descended from Greeks who immigrated to Egypt during the early 4th Century. If you want the article to be Neutral POV, please do not completely cut the section as it expresses the fact that an indigeous idenitity of Copts is completely inconclusive. 207.67.146.182 22:01, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Identity as Native Egyptians 

message: Zerida, I don't see how removing the paragraph about modern use and nationalists, both of which are true, will stop the edit wars while it will make it unbalanced!
The line about nationalists sayd: "Some Egyptian nationalists use Copt in a its original generic sense to signify any native of Egypt."
and the section about modern use says:
"In modern usage, the word "Copt" has become synonymous with the Christians of Egypt. Some Egyptian Christians claim exclusive, direct ancestry from the Egyptians of Pharaonic times, while claiming that Muslim Egyptians are descended from the Ottomans and from invaders from the Arabian Peninsula. These claims are non-factual."
This statement and that section were there since the major rewriting of the article last year and were removed recently by an anonyonous who didn't explain why they are not valid. --Alif 03:52, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, I agree with the person who edited this part out. Don't know why I didn't think of that before, but this section has been one of the most edited parts (back-and-forth). It's written in acrimonious language that invites polemical edits. What does it matter that some reactionaries claim this or that? Why invite this sort of argument if the article doesn't warrant it? I do find the article balanced without it--it describes members of the Coptic Church and explains the word's etymology. At any rate, I won't just delete it but will try rewrite it to make it more neutral — Zerida 08:59, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Edited and expanded section — Zerida 11:25, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I find the subject section in its current form to be superior to the previous. However I don't agree with you that this article is about members of the Coptic Church as there is another article covering that: Coptic Christianity. Instead, this article is about the word 'Coptic' itself and the natinality, not the faith. The political implications and existing, though unfounded, calims of racial purity are closely associated with it. --Alif 17:58, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  On modern use and nationalists 

message: As a translator of the article to Norwegian (for Norwegian Wikipedia) I really need a reference to the person "Morcus Semika Pasha" and the "Coptic Museum", which can not be verified by using Goodle. Finn Bjo
:I just realized there are so many spelling variations of the name in English. However, under external links you will find the web site of the Coptic Museum listed. Semika Pasha is mentioned here  specifically . I think the name should reflect the most commonly used spelling. I'll change it once I find out what that is. — Zerida 04:55, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference needed 

message: I'm an American Catholic and I'm just learning about Coptic Christianity (I thought it was pretty much a dead religion and didn't know there was any real Christian population in Egypt) and I'd like to find a Copt message board for discussion.  I've found several but they're all in Arabic, so I was wondering if there are any English Copt boards for American Copts or whatnot. Roland Deschain 00:10, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anywhere I can dialogue with Copts? 

message: there should be something about all the oppression and bad treatment that the government is doing to the copts. Arabs have conquered Egypt and are oppressing the copts in a similar way like they're oppressing all the other peoples of the middle east (like maroones in lebanon and jews in Israel).
:Do you have any sources to back this up?  Otherwise, it won't be allowed in.--KrossTalk 10:26, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Arab Egyptians performing Genocide on copts 

message: The article is still lacking in information on Coptic human rights. I've included a brief on the topic at Egypt, but I think it should be elaborated here. — [zɪʔɾɪdəʰ] · ☥ 10:25, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Human rights 

message: salamaleikum Zerida, how are you? That photo of 19C Copt girl was purchased on ebay. Its a very old post card depicting medival copt. All the best. Ldingley 15:45, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The article might not need this type of infobox because it's already covered at Egyptians, but I saw that the article on Sikhs have one, so it's probably helpful to have one here. The collage though should be replaced with one of more prominent Copts. Marianos of Faras was more likely a Byzantine monk, not Coptic. The postcard of the girl is obscure and still needs a reliable citation. There is no shortage of Coptic iconography on Wikipedia, so it should feature at least one. Coptic icons figure strongly in the culture. And what about Pope Shenouda? Instead of restoring the tags, maybe I could replace it with the photo of the priests in the meantime. Also, the languages should be in the order they are used. — [zɪʔɾɪdəʰ] · ☥ 19:00, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Good job Zerida! :) Cheers. Ldingley 15:39, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

text:  p.s Zerida, Bishop Marianus of Faras was not a Byzanian Bishop. He was Copt, however, he did had many contact with the Byzantine counrt and the church. Best Regards. Ldingley 18:33, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Excellent, then it shouldn't be difficult to cite that information. You're welcome to replace the picture of the priests with the collage again, but the tags will need to say for both Marianos and the postcard until reliable citations are provided. Thanks. — [zɪʔɾɪdəʰ] · ☥ 03:30, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I replaced the images. All the photos on that image are of copts. Ldingley 17:21, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Photo and infobox