Talk:Mashallah ibn Athari

message: I hope the actual version (i've just reformulated the intro) would satisfy the READERS. -- Szvest → Wiki Me Up ® 19:15, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortunately, it doesn't satisfy the truth. A few secondary sources such as online encyclopedias refer to Mashallah as Egyptian or Arab by mistake, I have a reliable primary source that clarifies this matter beyond any doubt. Medieval Science, Technology, and Medicine - Steven John (EDT) Livesey, Thomas F. Glick, Faith Wallis Page 331: "Mashaallah ibn Atharī, or Ibn Saryia, was a Jewish astrolger of Persian origin, from Basra (Iraq), although he's soometimes called Egyption (Arab) due to the easy confusion, in Arabic script, between Misri (Egyption) and Basri (Basrian)"
--ManiF 00:33, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  The issue is settled. ManiF has found a source that not only proves his Persian-ness, but also debunks the idea that he was an Egyptian/Arab. --Shamir1 01:05, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed. What we need now from Jidan is a source that debunks the idea that he was Persian. Khoikhoi 05:42, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed with all of the above. It is undisputed that Mashallah was Persian Jewish. Beit Or 08:13, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: HAHAHA...so masri is now basri. I remember more than once, non-arab friends of mine asking me how I could read an arabic book when all letters look the same!! Probably, the authors saw that too! Well, a picture is more worth than a thousand word.
1) is Misri, where the red letter is "m". 2)is basri, where the red letter is "b". 
Now, saying that 1) = 2) is pure imaginative speculation, which isn't based on any scientific facts. It is of course possible that the ancient writer might have been drunk, but to assume that just to prove that "Masri" is actually "Basri", is simply unscientific. And even if it was true and his last name was really Al-Basri (from Basra in Iraq) and not Al-Masri(egyptian), how does that prove that he is persian? That could simply mean he isn't egyptian but rather an arab from basra(a city founded by the arab caliph omar 50 year earlier). The author seems also to forget that the methods mashallah used in his astronomy were more hellenistic/greek and not persian/zorostrian. When the abbasid caliph al-Mansur wanted to found a new capital for his empire(i.e. Baghdad), he wanted to have the best astronomical knwoledge what the west(hellenistic world) and the east(Persia) had to offer to find the right place for his capital. For that he employed from the east Naubakht of persia, and from the west, Mashalah, who was aknowledged in the hellenistic astronomy. The following are sources which identify him as egyptian(and which I could get a hand on), to backup what I said:
* Jews and Medicine - p156 by Heynick,Frank calles him Mashallah of Egypt 
* African Presence in Early Europe - Page 185 by by Ivan Van Sertima calls him also the same . 
*Biblical Astronomy - Jewishencyclopedia.com
*History of Islamic Science - Prof. Hamed A. Ead
Unlike "some" users who claim to know the truth, I don't! and that is good so. The reader should have ALL info infront of him, and should not be mouth-feed. The version by  User:FayssalF does that. Jidan 08:28, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Weirdly, you're still trying to contend that he was an Arab, even though all sources say he was Jewish. Beit Or 08:44, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: When did I EVER say that he is not jewish????? Jidan 08:49, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

text: "others refer to him as an Arab Jewish" This is not what your sources say. Some sources indeed say he was from Egypt, but Egypt was not an Arab country in the 8th century. Beit Or 09:10, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Egypt was an important arab province in the arab empire at that time and was called Misr. But if that was the problem, why didn't you(aka User:Shamir1) just change "arab" to "egyptian" instead of reverting the whole thing and erasing all info? Jidan 19:45, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Edit warring

message: I was asked to have a look at this article. I gave a brief comment here . — [zɪʔɾɪdəʰ] · ☥ 07:11, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm..., ok, that sounds more plausible. Thank you. Jidan 10:15, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin 

message: Can anyone tell me his name in Arabic? Is it ما شاء الله ابن الأثري or ما شاء الله ابن الأشري ?
Or are both wrong?--Aa2-2004 (talk) 20:23, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name in Arabic Letters 

message: The article expansion done thus far is good, but would have liked to see a little more on his life in the life and works section. The research on his works is great however. Citations in the life and works section need to be in line citations like the ones in the philosophy section. Pictures of the books title page or pictures of inside the books are always nice things to see. The philosophy section is well done in explaining the models. Pictures of the ten, eight, and nine-orb models would be nice here so we can really see the differences. 
Meganjeanne1 (talk) 02:09, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Article Edits

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The article states that “Mashallah’s treatise on the astrolabe [ . . . ] is the first known of its kind.” What exactly is meant by that? What differentiates it from John Philoponus’s treatise or Severus Sebokht’s treatise?
I’ll add the tag “clarification needed.”
CielProfond (talk) 06:20, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is its kind anyway?