Talk:Arthur Fadden

message: According to this page (plus Robert Menzies and United Australia Party) two independents had kept the Coalition in power until they pulled the plug over the treatment of Menzies. However Australian federal election, 1940 shows the Coalition winning 37 seats to Labor's 32, Non-Communist Labor Party's 4 and Independents 1. Was the second independent elected in a by-election, a defector from another party or what? And who were the two indies? Timrollpickering (talk) 23:59, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've also wondered about this... if anyone is more aware of the events it would be good to hear. Timeshift (talk) 00:43, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've just found Menzies's memoirs Afternoon Light. He identifies one as Arthur Coles, "one of the two original 'independents', but who had joined my party and attended Government party meetings" (page 54) who resigned from the party. The other was Alexander Wilson, who we don't yet have an article on but there's material at http://www.adb.online.anu.edu.au/biogs/A160667b.htm It seems he wasn't so much an independent but rather the nominee of the state United Country Party who disagreed with the stance of the federal party being in Coalition, and was elected in 1937 and 1940. It's possible he's been confused for a Country Party member - has anyone got a detailed list of MPs elected in 1937, 1940 and 1943? Timrollpickering 23:36, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

text: In August 1941 Robert Menzies resigned as Prime Minister. The United Australia Party (UAP) was so bereft of leadership at this time that Fadden was invited to become Prime Minister, although the Country Party was the smaller of the two conservative parties. But on 3 October the two independent MPs (Arthur Coles and Alex Wilson) who were keeping the government in office were so disgusted at the way Menzies had been treated that they voted against Fadden's budget, and Fadden submitted his government's resignation to the Governor-General Lord Gowrie later that day. This was the last occasion to date on which defeat on the floor of the House of Representatives obliged a government to resign.[2] Fadden joked that he was like the Flood: he had "reigned for 40 days and 40 nights". Gowrie then commissioned the Labor leader John Curtin to form a government, but only after sending for Coles and Wilson and demanding that they give him a guarantee that, if he commissioned Curtin, they would support him and end the instability in government. Curtin's Labor ministry was sworn in on 7 October.
Gavin Souter's book Acts of Parliament goes into the episode in some detail, but makes no reference to their disgust over Menzies.  On 1 October, Curtin moved an amendment reducing the Estimates bill by £1, a symbolic act but one that could not be ignored.  Souter says that Coles' alienation from the government had been aggravated by Fadden's failure to find a place for him in the new ministry, and Wilson spent the weeked at Doc Evatt's house being cultivated by him.  On 3 October, in parliament, Coles said that he had decided to vote against the government on Curtin's motion.  Fadden suggested this was because he had not been given a ministry, but Coles called this "a deliberate untruth", and later "a lie".  He explained that what he had said to Fadden privately was that Fadden could not regard him as a supporter of the government "unless I am satisfied with the policy of your government and the membership of your Cabinet.  I am not seeking any preferment for myself".  Whatever their reasons were, Coles and Wilson voted for Curtin's amendment, the numbers fell 36-33, and the government had no choice but to resign.  Technically, all over the princely sum of £1.  I'd like to put something about this in the article, but if we can find some cite for their pre-existing disgust over Menzies, that would help complete the picture.  --  JackofOz (talk) 06:17, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Government's fall 

message: Revisiting this.  The current para (which I've just amended) says:
:In August 1941 Robert Menzies resigned as Prime Minister. The United Australia Party (UAP) was so bereft of leadership at this time that Fadden was invited to become Prime Minister, although the Country Party was the smaller of the two conservative parties. But on 3 October the two independent MPs (Arthur Coles and Alex Wilson) who were keeping the government in office were so disgusted at the way Menzies had been treated that they voted against Fadden's budget, and Fadden submitted his government's resignation to the Governor-General Lord Gowrie later that day. This was the last occasion to date on which defeat on the floor of the House of Representatives obliged a government to resign.[2] Fadden joked that he was like the Flood: he had "reigned for 40 days and 40 nights". Gowrie then commissioned the Labor leader John Curtin to form a government, but only after sending for Coles and Wilson and demanding that they give him a guarantee that, if he commissioned Curtin, they would support him and end the instability in government. Curtin's Labor ministry was sworn in on 7 October.
Gavin Souter's book Acts of Parliament goes into the episode in some detail, but makes no reference to their disgust over Menzies.  On 1 October, Curtin moved an amendment reducing the Estimates bill by £1, a symbolic act but one that could not be ignored.  Souter says that Coles' alienation from the government had been aggravated by Fadden's failure to find a place for him in the new ministry, and Wilson spent the weeked at Doc Evatt's house being cultivated by him.  On 3 October, in parliament, Coles said that he had decided to vote against the government on Curtin's motion.  Fadden suggested this was because he had not been given a ministry, but Coles called this "a deliberate untruth", and later "a lie".  He explained that what he had said to Fadden privately was that Fadden could not regard him as a supporter of the government "unless I am satisfied with the policy of your government and the membership of your Cabinet.  I am not seeking any preferment for myself".  Whatever their reasons were, Coles and Wilson voted for Curtin's amendment, the numbers fell 36-33, and the government had no choice but to resign.  Technically, all over the princely sum of £1.  I'd like to put something about this in the article, but if we can find some cite for their pre-existing disgust over Menzies, that would help complete the picture.  --  JackofOz (talk) 06:17, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Revisiting

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