Talk:Sheikh Muszaphar Shukor

message: Thee is no need to argue on that now. After a brief but tense discussion with references flying all over the place in the Space Tourism article, I think Dr SMS can be properly called a fully qualified cosmonaut. I have edited some the entries here to reflect the fact. Some external website reference has been added to back-up the issue, as per Sim2004 contribution at the talk page of Space Tourism. Babyrina2 10:33, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Alright, regardless, it is the title both the Russian Space Agency and NASA are giving him, Press Briefing: Spaceflight Participant. I'm just considering the users who may want more information on the program, regardless of who brokers the flight, he is a paying participant, and thus the reason I'd think linking to the article about it would be a good idea. :) We are focusing on relevant getting information to readers, not on semantics, after all, yes? :) (To clarify, I'm not at all arguing your issue that he's not technically a "tourist" or "participant" but a Malaysian Astronaut, and I agree. My only point was to help readers with relevant, associated links.)  Ariel♥Gold 13:44, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting. This is the first example I've seen of NASA or RKA using the term "Spaceflight participant" for a government-sponsored space traveler other than the retroactive designation of Christa McAuliffe. All other one-time or special circumstance flyers where labeled Mission Specialist or Payload Specialist if flying on Shuttles and Research Cosmonauts if flying on Soyuz. I'm curious as to why the term is being used for Shukor. Rillian 14:52, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That would be a question for NASA or RSA ;) As for the link, I just personally thought it would help. (I actually had trouble finding the "tourist" article, because I was searching for Spaceflight Participant, so that's why I just thought having that link on his page may be of help to others.) Cheers! Ariel♥Gold 16:31, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

text: The term is the one that is used by the Russian Space Agency, and by NASA. The infobox already states he is an astronaut, as does the article, but the term used by those sending him into space is valid to use, and is backed up by citations. I've reworded the sentence to qualify that he is not a tourist. Also note that the original thread was started long before it was even announced that he was chosen as the one to go into space. Ariel♥Gold 23:01, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  re: Link to Space Tourism 

message: The infobox states that he is an Astronaut. He is launching on a Russian spacecraft, which makes him a Cosmonaut, not an astronaut. The official term seems to be "Angkasawan", so should we use this as a compromise? --GW_SimulationsUser Page | Talk 15:27, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Angkasawan was what it was for a very long time, I don't know who changed it or why, but technically he is an Angkasawan, so I think it is quite appropriate to use the term, personally. A good compromise would be to put Angkasawan (Malaysian Astronaut). Ariel♥Gold 15:32, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Angkasawan Negara would translate into National Astronaut in English or the equivalent National Cosmonaut in Russian.  The 'space flight participant' nomenclature is plain silly.  He's trained just as long as other astronauts.  He'll have been in space longer than some early American astronauts.  I've personnally met a NASA trained astronaut who never made it to space.  NASA and the Russian's need to get over themselves and call Shukor an astronaut/cosmonaut or even angkasawan.  They all mean the same thing.  Astronauts/Cosmonauts/Taikonauts/Angkasawan are all government financed.  Privately financed operator pilots/mission specialists should still get the astronaut (etc) title.  Self-financed passengers are tourists. Taka2007 17:34, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Astronaut, Cosmonaut, or Angkasawan 

message: Is there a reason the word Sheikh is included in the name of the article? As far as I can tell, it is simply a title. It is not bolded in the lead either, which makes me think it's not part of his name. --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 01:44, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, I was thrown off by the formatting in the lead paragraph. Sorry for my ignorance! :) --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 23:22, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sheikh 

message: His given name is Sheikh Muszaphar Shukor. Shukor is not his family name. Why does the article use Shukor instead of Sheikh Muszaphar? -- Aidfarh 06:14, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, while the BBC and Reuters appear to refer to him as Shukor it's a bit bizzare to refer to him in this way. I've changed it to 'Sheikh Muszaphar' as used by most Malaysian sources (well they actually use Dr. Sheikh Muszaphar)  and some others  Nil Einne 07:36, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is not correct, per the manual of style, when referring to a person in an article, subsequent mentions of the person are by last name (surname). Since Sheikh is not a royal title, it is not appropriate to refer to him as Sheikh Muszaphar. If his surname is not Shukor, then whatever his one surname is, should be used instead. But the majority of media, NASA, RSA, etc., consider Shukor to be his last name, and refer to him in this way, just as they refer to the other members as "Whitson" or "Malenchenko". This is how it should be used in the Wikipedia article as well, per the Manual of style. Please clarify his surname, and this is the name that should be used, not his first two names. Ariel♥Gold 12:22, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: He doesn't have a surname. Also the convention is quite clear that we use the normal style of referring to people in English in the countries they live in even if that is not their 'surname'. For example, Mahathir bin Mohamad is refered to as Mahathir even though the closest thing to a surname is bin Mohamed. Or take a look at any nearly any other example of a Malaysian Muslim (e.g. Anwar Ibrahim) or for that matter many Malaysian Indian (e.g. Samy Vellu, Karpal Singh). Or for another country, Thaksin Shinawatra is refered to as Thaksin even though his surname is Shinawatra. With Vietnamese e.g. Phan Văn Khải there is even a template for it. Some Pakistani's e.g. Imran Khan & Waqar Younis I believe are also similar examples where the closest they have to a surname is not used.. I'm sure there is a guideline for this somewhere but I'm lazy to find it. Ultimately it doesn't matter since guidelines are meant to be descriptive not prescriptive. If the guidelines don't adequetly describe practise then they need to be modified, not common practise. And when it comes to common practise, it makes sense that we would follow the convention the person follows. If it is normal practise to refer to someone as Dr. Mahathir, Mr. Anwar, Mr. Samy Vellu, Mr. Thaksin Mr. Khải then clearly referring to them by their 'surname' in the wikipedia article makes no sense. Nil Einne 01:19, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Given name 

message: ...does he speak English, or Russian, or what? 220.235.3.45 09:48, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would presume he speaks English and Malay. As for Russian I don't know, probably not although that's just a guess Nil Einne 10:29, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Out of curiosity... 

message: A user User talk:130.88.177.202 tagged the article but I don't really know why. I've removed a dubious tag and added a missing reference. For the other tag, I'll leave it be for now but as the section is properly attributed to the people who've made the comments, I'm not sure what the problem is. I've requested the user explain on his/her talk page but I'm somewhat doubtful it will be seen Nil Einne 09:33, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Tagging

message: Let me state what I think about the vocabulary. Anybody who goes in space (beyond i.e. 100 km) should be called an astronaut. After that all is a matter of who is footing the bill :
* there is a case of a government which sends its own astronauts on its own spacecraft, this the case of US, Russian and Chinese astronauts.
* there is a case of a government which sends its own astronauts on the spacecraft of another space power, generally with a kind of bartering scheme or political arrangement, without exchange of funds, this is the case of US or ESA astronauts on Soyuz, or Canadian astronauts on Shuttle for instance. I think this is the case for Sheikh Muszaphar Shukor case, through the fighter planes contract.
* there is a case of a government which sends its own astronauts on the spacecraft of another space power, by paying for the flight, this is the case of some foreign astronauts on Soyuz, for instance, Austria or Slovakia.
* there is a case of a private citizen who purchases a flight on the spacecraft of a space power, by paying for the flight, this is the case of Tito, Shuttleworth, Olsen, Ansari, Simonyi. These five are the only space tourists so far.
* there is a case of an aerospace contractor which sends one of its own employees as an astronaut on the spacecraft of a space power, by paying for the flight, this was perhaps the case of some Payload Specialists (Charles Walker...) on the Shuttle. I am not sure whether or not this was in fact paid by NASA after all.
* there is a case of a purpose built corporation which sends its own astronauts on the spacecraft of a space power, by paying for the flight, this should have been the case for Helen Sharman, the scheme failed and finally Russia paid for the flight.
* there is the case of an employee flying a private spacecraft (Mike Melvill)
And there remains some schemes which have never happened yet, private citizen on a private spacecraft (they would be space tourists), payment by a lottery, etc. Hektor 10:35, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't forget Toyohiro Akiyama‎, the first space "business traveler". Rillian 12:38, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: People who travelled on Russian spacecraft are cosmonauts. Let's not completely Americanise Wikipedia. --GW_SimulationsUser Page | Talk 11:30, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well spationauts which was the French term has been completely erased by Rillian. ;) Hektor 11:35, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

text: I was not aware of this, and if I had have been, I would have objected. --GW_SimulationsUser Page | Talk 11:37, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

text: This is the English Wikipedia. As discussed ad nauseum on Talk:Astronaut, the primary English word for someone trained to participate in a space flight as a commander, pilot or crew member is an Astronaut. An exception is the traditional use of cosmonaut (also an English word) for astronauts who are employed by Soviet/Russian space agencies. There's no need to clutter up Wikipedia and confuse readers with minor variants like spationaut, taikonaut, and afronaut. The question related to Sheikh Muszaphar is whether he is "someone trained to participate in a space flight as a commander, pilot or crew member". Based on official documents using the term spacflight participant and comments by Whitson, the mission commander to the effect that she doesn't think that Sheikh Muszaphar will get in the way, it's clear that Sheikh Muszaphar is not a crew member. He is a passenger who is a guest of the Russian government. This is no way degrades his achievement and he is certainly a space traveler, just not a professional space traveler. Rillian 12:23, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well it seems to me that you are mixing the issue of the ISS crew and the Soyuz crew, these are two different things. What you seem to consider as clear is not clear to me at all. As far as I can judge Shukor is a professional space traveller, ie for all I know he gets paid to travel in space. I don't know he has currently any other mean of subsistance than being an astronaut. I don't think he does anything else. I am getting quite upset to see in this article hyperlinks to space tourism.Hektor 12:42, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Re: ISS vs. Soyuz - per official mission documents, Malenchenko is the Soyuz Commander and a ISS Flight Engineer, Whitson is a Soyuz Flight Engineer and the ISS Commander, in both environments Sheikh Muszaphar is listed as a "spaceflight participant." Regardless of who is paying his salary, Sheikh Muszaphar is a passenger not a crew member. I agree that he is not a "space tourist" and there should not be links to imply that he is. Rillian 18:22, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

text: And you are absolutely sure that he is in no way interacting with any of the functional systems of the Soyuz vehicle and participating in the conduct of the flight ? Hektor 18:53, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

text: My opinion is that we should just use Angkasawan on this specific article, and avoid disputes that way. --GW_SimulationsUser Page | Talk 13:37, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why would we use a Malaysian word in the English wikipedia when we have English words that mean the same thing? We don't use Raumfarher on the German astronaut articles. Rillian 18:14, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, Angkasawan, Cosmonaut, Astronaut. They all meant the same thing don't they? Doesn't matter which one is selected, it still the same. Though it probably read nicer if the term angkasawan is used seems that it is the official term in Malaysia, and Sheikh is a Malaysian. User:Ryan_darknight 12:25, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that Angkasawan would look better. --GW_SimulationsUser Page | Talk 10:02, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Do you mean Malaysian word or Malay word? There is nothing wrong with using a Malaysian English word in wikipedia, particularly in an article that predominantly relates to Malaysia. The question is, can Angkasawan be consider an English word? In my opinion yes, it's used by the Malaysian media in English Nil Einne (talk) 17:41, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Astronauts

message: What is the standard Wikipedia procedure for reporting broken links?  I noticed that the link for reference 1 in this article is broken.  (The article has been removed.)  Also, the "Shukor model photo" link under "external links" is not right, either.  It brings up an "anti-leech" message image instead.  --Lance E Sloan 18:04, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I fixed the reference, and removed the external link. The photo was a crude home-made wallpaper type thing, someone had scanned a photo and changed colors and stuff, not sure how it got in the article, but it doesn't contribute to the content or context. Thanks for pointing these things out. Ariel♥Gold 16:20, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Broken links 

message: By the way, Dr Sheikh Muszaphar has not passed his exams for his Orthopaedic training. As such, he cannot be considered an Orthopaedic Surgeon. Maybe you can consider him an "angkasawan" for what he has done, but I am sure you cannot give him the qualification of a surgeon without him passing it first. Unless of course you don't mind him operating on you with his current qualifications.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.49.46.171 (talk • contribs) 01:42, 20 December 2008
*"Controversial material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately, especially if potentially libellous" Hektor (talk) 07:50, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unsourced statement 

message: Why does this article have a Mars One navigation box and in the Mars One category? There is no mention of the organization elsewhere in the article.--RadioFan (talk) 03:02, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: See Talk:John_Traphagan#Mars_One -Arb. (talk) 11:08, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Mars One nav box & category

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: In the Arabic Wikipedia, his name was written as if it is pronounced "Muzafar." Eldad  (talk) 12:15, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  How do we pronounce his first name Muszaphar? 

message: Can we mention them? 78.148.67.220 (talk) 16:41, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Possible sources
*http://www.themalaymailonline.com/malaysia/article/malaysian-astronaut-starts-aladdin-malaysias-halal-competitor-to-amazon-and
*http://halalfocus.net/tag/aladdin-group-of-companies/
*http://www.nst.com.my/news/2016/01/124331/angkasawans-halal-e-marketplace-takes-flight 
78.148.67.220 (talk) 16:45, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aladin Group 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

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