Talk:Homophobia/Archive 3

message: :Homophobia is discussed in medical journals and continues to be researched by the American Psychiatric Association and American Psychological Association. Some of these studies have linked deep hatred towards homosexuality to repressed homosexual feelings. See internalised homophobia.
OK, I didn't find any citations in the section on internalized homophobia that supports this claim.  This seems to be a common belief, but I'm not aware of any scientific studies that show this.  I'm not even really sure how one could do a controlled scientific study to find out, but perhaps some smart people have found a way.  If anyone knows of any such studies, please point them out; that would be very interesting information.  If not, I'm going to leave this out as dubious. -- Beland 07:40, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Regarding the summary, the only source I see in the article related to that is  from the external link section, which is now a dead link. Fortunately, there's archive.org to recover it: here we go. (Old press releases are moved into a password-only archive on the APA server for some reason.) It's also mirrored on lots of places on the web, should the link stop working.--Eloquence* 07:53, Feb 19, 2005 (UTC)
Excellent.  I started us off with a more detailed summary of the study. -- Beland 09:27, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

text: In a recent experiment, a group of homophobic heterosexual men showed more signs of sexual arousal from being shown images of homosexual sex than a control group of non-homophobic heterosexual men; however, anxiety in the former group may explain part of the difference.
I'd like to get a specific citation, to make sure this isn't just a rumor, and also to be able to give some context about whether or the results are considered conclusive, suggestive, or patent nonsense by the peer review community. For now I've marked the related claim as "highly controversial". -- Beland 09:04, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

text: see  -- Outerlimits 09:10, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Science and internalized homophobia 

message: This is very much an interpretation, and it is dominating the bottom-half of the article. Wouldn't that be much more on-topic in Ganymede (mythology)?--Eloquence* 09:52, Feb 19, 2005 (UTC)
:If it quacks like a duck... Kenneth Clark, the art historian: "...a protest not only against antique art but against antique morality, and against the combination of the two in sixteenth century Rome." As for domination...?! Haiduc 21:36, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ganymede painting 

message: :Judith Butler recounts, "When they were debating gays in the military on television in the United States a senator got up and laughed, and he said, 'I must say, I know very little about homosexuality. I think I know less about homosexuality than about anything else in the world.' And it was a big announcement of his ignorance of homosexuality. Then he immediately launched into a homophobic diatribe which suggested that he thinks that homosexuals only have sex in public bathrooms, that they are all skinny, that they're all male, etc, etc. So what he actually has is a very aggressive and fairly obsessive relationship to the homosexuality that of course he knows nothing about. At that moment you realise that this person who claims to have nothing to do with homosexuality is in fact utterly preoccupied by it."
If this is supposed to be an example of someone who is afraid of being mistaken for a homosexual, it isn't a very good one.  It's not surprising that a strong opponent of something would have an "obsessive relationship" with it; I'm sure many gay rights advocates have an "obsessive" relationship with the Bible some days.  I also think many would agree that the Senator is ignorant about many aspects of homosexuality, despite being able to ramble on against it.  It is an interesting quote, though.  Maybe it should be put on Wikiquote? Hopefully a better example of over-dramatic denial of homosexuality or something can go here in its place. -- Beland 10:00, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fear of being mistaken for a homosexual 

message: # There is a typo in his quote, but the original source is not online.  Could whoever found this please check it against the original?
# Who is he, what is his role in the debate, and who is his audience?
-- Beland 10:10, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Warren J. Blumenfeld 

message: The good news is, now there are only two sections with NPOV flags.  (Hopefully that's justified.)
The bad news is, this is one of them.
:Some gender theorists interpret the fact that male - male relationships often incite a stronger reaction in a homophobic person than female - female (lesbian)
This is certainly true in some cultures.  In others, it's off with their heads, gender be damned.  We should attempt to represent the full diversity of attitudes, at least in brief.  I'm not even sure this idea applies to all European countries.  Can anyone speak to that?
:as meaning that the homophobic person feels threatened by the perceived subversion of the gender paradigm in male - male sexual activity.
Interesting and true.  Is that homophobia?  Probably close enough.  We should expand on this point.
:To quote D.A. Miller, the "only necessary content of male heterosexuality is not a desire for women, but the negation of the desire for men." 
I think a lot of people would insist that attraction to women has a lot to do with heterosexuality.  Ahem.
:As Miller continues, this necessary negation is such that "straight men unabashedly need gay men, whom they forcibly recruit (as the object of their blows or, in better circles, their jokes) to enter into a polarization that exorcises the 'woman' in man, by assigning it to a class of man who may be considered to be no 'man' at all." (Thomas 2000)
Certainly the idea of masculinity is involved, both in that being a gay man is associated in macho culture with femininity, and in that beating up on or insulting someone can enhance the appearance of strength and thus masculinity.  That's actually a better way to explain it, I think.
:They regard the reason male homosexuality is treated worse compared to female homosexuality as sexist in its underlying belief that men are superior to women and therefore for a man to "replace" a woman during intercourse with another man he is then subjecting himself to inferiority.
Or to assume a feminine gender role, feminine mannerisms, or to be the receiving partner during incertive sex acts.
-- Beland 10:29, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sexist beliefs 

message: The Homophobia page currently says that George Weinberg coined the word homophobia in 1971; the page on George Weinberg says he coined it in 1972. I have no idea which is right, but this should probably be fixed. -- Avram 23:49, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Year of publication of Weinberg's <i>Society and the Healthy Homosexual</i> 

message: What happened, BTW, to the wiki doctrine ""Wikipedia articles should always reflect accepted wisdom (irrespective of its validity), and not be a platform for minority views."
Does this article not contravene this principle?
193.131.115.253
:Do you have a problem with a specific part of this article?  Personally, I think it is rather well written, with the exception of the well placed NPOV-section tags.  Please reference the problematic parts of this article so that it can be improved. --CVaneg 15:45, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Validity? 

message: Isn't homophobia often used to mean, quite simply, straight men's (possibly irrational) fear of becoming gay themselves?
*That's one I've heard before. And I'm sure there are some straight men who fear this. But I'm not sure that all straight men are afraid of becoming gay. The usage question is complicated though, I agree. I would say that while some might justifiably dispute the validity of the term homophobia on the grounds that they believe it to be a form of discrimination rather than a bona fide phobia, and others because they support the idea that all such discrimination is borne out of fear, the fact remains that the term is commonly used when discussing discrimination against lesbians and gay men, and whether this is the correct usage or not is irrelevant - the word may be searched for in any of these contexts by a reader, so all interpretations should be included. I think the dual associations and usage controversy section covers this adequately as it stands. - Urbane legend 02:39, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Usage: missed the simplest thing? 

message: :Some critics of these events say that culturally "extreme" practices at these events, such as gharish clothing, nudity, displays of sex toys or other sexual devices, BDSM or sexual performances, frighten cultural outsiders and actually end up promoting homophobia.
Why was this text removed? It does seem like a common criticism. -- Beland 02:17, 21 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed text