Talk:Descent from Genghis Khan

message: It is extremely stupid to limit this article to one descent only. Descent generally from Genghis is a legitimate topic. Maed 14:25, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You should move it back, then, as the current title doesn't match the content. siafu 14:43, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Granted that if this article is somewhat accurate, does it mean that the brothers, Prince Harry and William share a bloodline with Genghis Khan?
That can be disputed. following the Mongol concept of spiritual descent absolutely yes. In the concept of genetic descent it is not yet evident. Wandalstouring 18:40, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Monarchy of England are of Mongol Decent? 

message: Some of the Khalkha Khans (I know of the Tusheet Khan, see Jebtsundamba, but maybe some of the others did too) at least claimed to be descendants of Chinggis. I don't know if they have any surviving descendants, but since they were there rulers of Mongolia for a while mentioning them sure would be warranted? Yaan 14:21, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Khalkha Khans 

message: Here is the 5/18/07 News summary. Here is the abstract of paper on PubMed titled "Distribution of the male lineages of Genghis Khan's descendants in northern Eurasian populations"; article is in Russian.  And finally, some comments about the paper are here.  Seems like some of this could be incorporated into this page Ff123 23:50, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  More on Chromosomes of GK 

message: I included a paragraph that Genghis Khan raping 500 billion women and all claiming poetic descent from Genghis Khan should be taken with grain of salt. Let's not forcefully say that Genghis Khan raped 100 million women and there are 10 billion Genghis Khan children nonsense. That is just ridiculous and child won't even understand that. Many accounts are not from Genghis Khan, he didn't claim to raped so many women, and many are poetic and sounds nice arguments and assumptions to justify their accounts in history. 71.237.70.49 (talk) 05:55, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia just reports the information we find in the sources, our personal opinion about it doesn't matter. Because your addition was essentially a statement of opinion, I've removed it again. --Latebird (talk) 19:19, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Source is included now. 71.237.70.49 (talk) 23:55, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That source only touches on some minor points of what you wrote. And those points (the history of Mongolian names) are really off-topic here. The rest is still just your personal opinion and without sources.  --Latebird (talk) 00:49, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I will add rest of the sources soon including the genetics study. Just hold on man. 71.237.70.49 (talk) 05:53, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Did you actually read the existing article? The genetics study is already explained there, and in more depth in a seperate article. Please do not add redundant or off-topic material to Wikipedia articles. Thanks. --Latebird (talk) 10:24, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree some words on the scientific soundness of those genetic studies, as well as on the legitimacy of other claims, would be a worthwhile addition to the article, however I also think we need relevant sources, not just some random observations. I also do not really see what those clan names have to do with it, most people do not seem to be very serious about them. Yaan (talk) 19:27, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Poetic and genetic study

message: Obviously the reason why he has 12 million descendents is because he raped every woman in sight. Here's a tidbit from nationalgeographic.com:
Khan's eldest son, Tushi, is reported to have had 40 sons. Documents written during or just after Khan's reign say that after a conquest, looting, pillaging, and rape were the spoils of war for all soldiers, but that Khan got first pick of the beautiful women. His grandson, Kubilai Khan, who established the Yuan Dynasty in China, had 22 legitimate sons, and was reported to have added 30 virgins to his harem each year. 
Leaving it out is just ridiculous...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.14.92.12 (talk) 21:36, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That's not quite the topic of this article, as no dynasty was originated that way. All the same, mentioning it in the "Genghis Khan Effect" section was probably appropriate. I'll fix the phrasing though, it was not the cities that were raped, after all. --Latebird (talk) 22:18, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

text: None of this remotely suggests there was any rape involved. Women are frequently only too keen to marry a powerful suitor. Evadeluge (talk) 09:14, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  No mention of rape? 

message: This is an interesting article but it's badly in need of clean-up in the copyediting sense. Parts of it apparently were written by contributors whose first language is not English and therefore read rather awkwardly. I'm an experienced copyeditor and have a broad background in history -- but not for central Asia. Someone who knows this topic better than I do needs to give it a thorough working-over for grammar, punctuation, word choice, and smoothness of the narrative. --Michael K SmithTalk  13:15, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clean-up needed 

message: There is a huge difference between "direct" (real) and "mixed" (assimilated) descents.Mongol khans and qaghans were real descents, and Qing kings weren't direct descents. -- Khereid (talk) 04:45, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mongolian society is patriarchal society 

message: Removed false information (The Genetic Legacy of the Mongols. It is impossible that there are 15 million??? Genghis' male descents in the world, now, there are approximately 11,000,000 Mongols! 182.160.14.108 (talk) 10:22, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I am mystified by the above comment and the removal of the citation. The paper "The genetic legacy of the Mongols" does not say that there are 15 million Mongol descendants of Genghis Khan. It says there are 16 populations throughout Asia that carry a specific Y-DNA lineage.  They propose three scenarios that could have caused this effect, one of which (they think the most likely) is that this could have come from Genghis Khan's lineage because of selection based on social prestige.  This paper, was published in a prestigious journal (he American Journal of Human Genetics) and was presumably peer reviewed - the gold standard for inclusion as a reference in Wikipedia. This article attracted widespread attention worldwide in the mainstream media.  To exclude this because anonymous user 182.160.14.108 thinks this is an unbelievable hypothesis to me breaks several rules in Wikipedia.  I think it should be re-inserted. SylviaStanley (talk) 11:12, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  Agreed.  I reverted that IP's edit because it's quite clear he had absolutely no idea what he was talkng about. Thunderstone99 (talk) 17:54, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:   "The Genetic Legacy of the Mongols" is a bad work. First of all, the "star-cluster" is mostly present among numerically small ethnic groups. However, the authors neglect that and count all ethnic groups together, and then divide the figure by a plain QUANTITY of ethnic groups. Second, the "star-cluster" is in reality much older than the times of Genghis Khan. --YOMAL SIDOROFF-BIARMSKII (talk) 15:47, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed unbelievable  hypothesis 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The section above is a complete mess and I don't know where to and how to reply that so I'm making a new section for discussion
I'm editing the page using this source. It clearly says https://www.researchgate.net/publication/225393495_Distribution_of_the_male_lineages_of_Genghis_Khan's_descendants_in_northern_Eurasian_populations
1) 
By DERENKO   et al (2007).
. Wefound the central haplotype corresponding to the male lineage originating from Genghis Khan in almost every fourth Mongol (24%), 5.6% of Altaians Kazakhs, 1.7%of Kalmyks, and 0.5% of Buryats (Table 2).Thus, our data agree with the results of earlier stud-ies, where the highest frequencies of the cluster of male
 RUSSIAN JOURNAL OF GENETICS        Vol. 43        No. 3        2007 DISTRIBUTION OF THE MALE LINEAGES OF GENGHIS KHAN’S DESCENDANTS 337 lineages of Genghis Khan’s descendants were found inMongols and Kazakhs. Although southern Siberian eth-nic groups have been studied in detail, the cluster ofGenghis Khan’s descendants was found (with low fre-quencies) only in populations bordering on Mongolia,from which the Mongol Empire began to expand in1206. It is known that the Mongol Empire expandedover a considerable part of Eastern Europe by 1248 dueto the khan Batu’s conquests. Russian principalitieswere vassal states of the Mongol Empire until 1480.However, we found no genetic traces of the Mongolsovereignty over Russia (in the form of male lineages ofthe cluster of Genghis Khan descendants) in the Rus-sian population. We believe that further studies on theY-chromosome variation will substantially extend ourknowledge on the evolution and history of ethnicgroups of Russia, as well as the origin of individual lin-eages constituting them.
So I see no problem in editing what I previously edited, by I will improve to edit and make it more accurate like this ----> Study by teams of biochemists led by M. V. Derenko (2007), based on the Y-DNA of people who claim to be modern descendants of Genghis Khan, have indicated that Genghis Khan may have belonged to a subclade of Haplogroup C-M217 (C2) such as C-F4002 (C2b1a3)
2)
Study
Molecular Genealogy of a Mongol Queen’s Family and Her Possible Kinship with Genghis Khan
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5023095/
Like the study ---> All physical anthropological parameters indicate that the skulls of the Tavan Tolgoi graves were all anthropologically Mongoloid
I see no reason why this shouldn't be edit next to the controversial 5 bodies
Also the study of R1b in the study is more about (like it says on the study ----> Genghis Khan’s Borjigin clan and men of the ruling lineages of the Ongud, to solidify her political power and to extend her rule over the Ongud Kingdom [2, 3] more than it has to do with anything about proposing Genghis Khan have  R1b DerekHistorian (talk) 10:55, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Editing dispute between DerekHistorian and Hunan201p part 2 

message: He was part of the A00 family.  All you have to do is compare the Haplogroup to someone with A-PR2921, the ancestral path was 
A0-T>A1>A1b>BT>CTCF>F>GHIJK>HIJK>IJK>K>K2>K2b>P>P295>M45>P284>P22>R>R1>R1b. A00 is my immediate family, followed by the human race. You could take my DNA and easily triangulate the SNP's and Haplogroups through identifying the people with these markers, and you'll get your answer.  You all should really start letting people with A-PR2921 assist, we have every Haplogroup, SNP, and marker that ever existed, and will ever be. Feels like we're taking many steps back over pride and ego. Good luck to everyone. 184.97.94.152 (talk) 13:12, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sorry but, what? I don't believe that anyone is excluded or given special edit privileges on the basis on their DNA markers. Simonm223 (talk) 13:16, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  A00