Talk:Suicide door

message: The article says that the main danger, or at least the reason for the name, is another car hitting the door while entering or exiting the car. However, a more common danger would seem to be the vehicle moving while someone is getting in or out (by the driver's inattention to a passenger or forgetting to set the parking brake). The person might be dragged along with the car or go under the back wheel. 
Aside from getting in or out, it would be more dangerous than a regular door if left open while the vehicle was moving. If a pedestrian was hit with a car door, a regular door would deflect (and tend to not stay wide open in the first place), but a suicide door would hold strong and possibly drag you. -- Kjkolb 11:26, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But in a hearse, the passenger in the back is already... dead  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.113.49.126 (talk) 02:20, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

text: If you exit the car, and another car is passing by, that's dangerous anyway. Also, the other car may go from the front, not from the back. - 37.9.29.40 (talk) 13:30, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other danger 

message: The New Mini Clubman (see www.motoringfile.com/2005/03/16/the_new_mini_clubman) has suicide rear doors.
Article dated March 3, 2005. --SportWagon 23:56, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Mini Clubman 

message: I remember my father (born in 1923) explaining to me that the doors used to have hinges in back, and, the door opener handle was a lever.  People would rest their arm on the lever, and the door would open.  (our car had a levered handle, but not suicide doors).  He did not refer to it as a suicide door, but, he did say it was unsafe.
Also, a comment - the "kidnapper door" paragraph is superfluous.  It's also poorly written.
::Correct: long, long ago there were no arm rests in doors and the inside latch release was the same as the outer latch release: a downward lever. In the 50's this became an upward lever. Nowadays the lever is integral to the door, separate from the armrest. People unfamiliar with classic and/or junk cars wont know this.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.113.49.126 (talk) 02:18, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another Anecdote 

message: The article (including the title) currently reads as one long criticism; if these doors are so bad, why are manufacturers putting them on cars again?  There must be some positive aspects to them, which the article should mention, even briefly.  Do the doors make it easier to get in and out of the car?  Are they stylish and popular among a certain crowd?  What?  (I know nothing about them so I won't modify the article myself; just stumbled onto here.)  --ScottAlanHill 21:14, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm...that sounds like another reason not to have them.172.191.28.59 (talk) 08:17, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Positive aspects 

message: Following the discussion from above, we can find:
http://www.sdreader.com/php/ma_show.php?id=476
This is journalistic, and not really historical.  Note that even if the physics totally disprove the theory that the door could fly open, that does not prevent that erroneous perception from being the (correct) derivation of the term.  However, the article doesn't currently have a References section, so one would need to be added, and I don't have time to do that this minute.--SportWagon 16:54, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citation for perception originating the term 

message: This article contradicts itself on many points please go back and change it.
01:56, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tewrrible contradictory article. 

message: Of course Suicide Doors are dangerous.  That's how they get their name.  Its a matter of aerodynamics and engineering. It was not a big deal when cars drove fairly slowly.  But when cars are going 60 mph plus, you could be pulled right out of your seat and into the street!
Lets say your door is slightly ajar.  You don't realize it until you are at speed.  With a normal car its not a problem.  You try the handle and push the door out a little and slam it shut.  The air passing the car door tends to make the door self closing.  The wider you open the door, the harder the air pushes against the door to close it.  Case closed.  
However, if you have suicide doors its another matter. Say, you notice the door is slightly ajar and you unlatch the door and attempt to open it a little and slam it hard.  The problem is, that if you open the door an it opens a little more, the forces are doubled again.  Before you know it, your hand is being pulled very hard and you are in danger of being pulled from your seat.  You can push someone off balance fairly easily with a 5 or 10 pound push, if they are relaxed, and not strapped in.
As an architect, I used to do some basic wind load calculations.  Typically we design buildings for a wind load here of about 15 pounds per square foot, which is the load you get at something like 90 or 100 miles per hour.  Something short of a hurricane, but something that can happen in a car without being a race car.  Say a door, with glass, is about three and a half feet high and about two feet or so wide if partially open.  Thats about seven square feet total.  Multiply that by 15 pounds per square foot and you get over 100 pounds of force on a door and thereby your arm trying to pull you out of the car.  Granted, most people are not going to open a door two feet at close to a hundred miles an hour.  But realize that if the door pulls away from you at first 5 pounds then 10, then 20, then 40, then 100 pounds, within a second or so, you are being pulled in a way that is irresistable.  If you let go of a suicide door, you might wreck the door.  So you might tend to hold on longer than you should.  Potentially very dangerous IMHO.  WonderWheeler 05:52, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you find citations for this?  Would the aerodynamic effect not be affected by the door shape?  Couldn't a rear-hinged door be pulled shut just as powerfully as a front-hinged, if the airflow is appropriate?  (Just asking) --SportWagon 15:39, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Little Engineering Lesson 

message: This page needs to be edited to show the perceved and proven danger of suicide doors, but also the new advances in car engineering that allow special locks that keep them from popping open at speed.  Also the positive benefits of the doors in allowing parents to put child seats easily in rear etc.
Inclosed are some links: 
regarding a guy that got pulled out by a suicide door as a child:
http://www.topix.com/forum/autos/rolls-royce-phantom/TCTUNNQP7IB1VEVR3
A descriptions of special deadbolt type locks for these doors
http://www.streetrodstuff.com/Articles/Body/Suicide_Door_Deadbolts/
A recent patent for locking these doors
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5655800-description.html
Further descriptions of the problem
http://automotivemileposts.com/autobrevity/suicidedoors.html
A company that makes novel hinge kits including 180 degree hinges for these doors
http://www.aerokits.net/cart/
WonderWheeler 04:21, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Further Links

message: Note that "suicide doors" references more than just a class of car with rear mounted door hinges.  The 1960s Lincoln and Thunderbird 4-door cars with so-called "suicide doors" were quite safe, compared to early cars which coined the term "suicide doors".  You must go back to the early 1930s to find popular American cars which caused numerous accidental deaths due to the door design.  Ford, Plymouth, and other cars of the early 1930s offered an optional 2-door car with rear hinge, but these cars also had seats mounted forward of the door hinge, and when one of these rear-hinged door would accidentally pop open, the occupant's first reaction would be to grab the door handle, at which time they would be ejected from the car because there were no seat belts and there was nothing to lean a shoulder against.  Rear-hinged doors did not disappear after this issue was recognized by car manufacturers, but the hinges were effectively relocated to move the seats further rearward in the car.  When later "suicide door" cars popped a door open, the occupant would still reflexively grab at the door handle, but their shoulder would contact the vehicle body and provide safe leverage to close the door.  Much later, cars would interlock the rear "suicide door" with the front door to make it impossible for the rear-hinge door to open without a deliberate opening of the front door, followed by deliberately opening the rear door.  No one lost their life over the design of a 1960's era "suicide door".  The term "suicide door" has natural appeal, and so it has stuck to rear-hinged doors, but the truly dangerous ones were found only in the powerful V-8 powered cars of the early 1930s.  Search "Deuce Coupe" (1932 Ford Coupe) or "3-Window Coupe" to learn more about real "suicide doors".  Dave Shoe, Mpls, MN.
(Moved by Alfvaen (talk) 04:57, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dave Shoe comments moved from main page 

message: I don't think I've ever heard 'suicide doors' used as a descriptive term in Britain. It may be used in the custom car and modding worlds, but a lot of American slang and terminology is common there. I know these doors as 'front opening doors', and many British cars were fitted with them before the 1960s.
Is the term used in other English speaking areas? If it is regional, the article should refer to the fact. --80.176.142.11 (talk) 15:20, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm British and aware of the term.  It may be American-English origin, but it's in use in "proper" English.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.75.83.25 (talk) 09:44, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  American English? 

message: The Eldorado had a special half B pillar that the rear door locked to when the car was in gear. It was mechanical, not electric. 
Also no mention of hearses, particularly Superior (S&S) conversions. Porque non?
Suggest keeper of the page contact Cadillac and Hearse enthusiasts in SoCal. Anyone coming to an article on Suicide Doors is probably interested in Lincoln Connies and Caddy Hearses.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.113.49.126 (talk) 02:12, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  1957/58 Eldorado Broughm 

message: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Studebaker_4-Door_Sedan.jpg
Mrtiller (talk) 23:48, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Studebaker

message: The quote from Dave Brownell seems unnecessary. I doubt gangsters had much influence on car design, they were unlikely to be driving late model cars in the first place.
Sofar 2 (talk) 05:20, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The influence part is likely true, but they had an awful lot of ill-gotten disposable income to spend on fancy new cars.172.191.28.59 (talk) 08:21, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: History Section

message: I think it should be no9ted in the article that the F-150 example is a half door and is only able to be opened when the front door is open as well.216.67.3.61 (talk) 00:25, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ford F-150's suicide door 

message: Under the image is the caption "A Lincoln concept car reusing classic "suicide door" styling first seen in 1961. Note total lack of B-pillar." There are plenty of examples decades earlier than 1961 of 4-door cars with no B pillar - try e.g. Lancia. Eddaido (talk) 09:51, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Modern Use 

message: Most modern UTVs and tractors with cabs use Rear hinged doors. not sure if this applies to the article or not.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.235.89.46 (talk) 03:34, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Modern Use 2 

message: I've been watching Medical Examiner Dr. Qin, and Li Dabao in that series drives a small two-seater car that only has suicide doors (so no safety interlocks with front facing doors.) I assume it's a normal vehicle for China, and is probably worth a note in the article, but I know little about cars or life in China, so I can't add anything.--Prosfilaes (talk) 14:01, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chinese use? 

message: I changed this on the article - 2003 was the last year Toyota Tundra had clamshell doors instead of 2002.  I know because I have one.  Also, in this truck, the front door must be opened to open and close the rear door.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.3.92.145 (talk) 03:07, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Toyota Tundra clamshell doors  

message: "Suicide door" is a slang term and is not universally used; not a good name for the article. Also, the term is used in boldface in the first paragraph, while other names do not appear until the next paragraph. I would suggest renaming the article, and putting all names used in the first paragraph. Best wishes, Pol098 (talk) 12:01, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article name could be changed 

message: I see there's been much discussion about the possibility of a door "becoming unlatched". While this is an encyclopaedia and opinions, and experience, count for nothing—sources are needed—I describe an incident that happened in my family (without consequences, due to good fortune rather than any lack of danger): a toddler was in the back seat of a car, next to a front-hinged door (no child seats or rear-seat safety belts at that time). The driver slammed the door from outside, and we travelled. On arrival I went to open the door; to my shock it was not latched and could be pushed open. Fortunately the child didn't lean on it. There are two points here: 1 - a door doesn't have to "become unlatched" in some improbable way, it may simply not be closed properly. 2 - given that the door wasn't latched, it seems reasonable that the airflow helped to prevent it opening more; a rear-hinged door, if it opened a crack, would tend to be blown open. I'd hope that doors latch more reliably these days, and rear seat belts and child seats obviously make a major difference. (Thinking back, I don't remember for sure that the door was front-hinged, though I assume it was.) FWIW. Pol098 (talk) 21:25, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Personal experience

message: At least in Australia suicide doors seem very common in modern vehicles.  Is that not the case elsewhere?  Many people movers rear doors are suicide doors. 120.21.174.153 (talk) 07:14, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Modern vehicles