Talk:Dimitar Popgeorgiev

message: Respect the source provided and do not reinstate deleted images. Mr. Neutron 16:37, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I repeat that, stop removing them! Mr. Neutron 19:07, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Will you stop making drive-by unregistered reverts? Mr. Neutron 15:27, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Strich3d

message: Can somebody explain why the sentence 'he is considered ethnic Macedonian in R.Macedonia' is deleted? How is this fact controversial, it is part of the official history of R.Macedonia which considers Berovski one of their own. thanks Capricornis 21:42, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You're welcome to write it back again. I'm not sure as to why Mr. Neutron reverted the last edit. It is part of the official history in the Republic of Macedonia after all. A rather strange thing to say for someone who took part in the Bulgarian Legion, in the Unification of Bulgaria, in the Serbo-Bulgarian war and so on, but it is not for us to decide the official history in a given country whose citizens we are not. --Laveol T 22:07, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I am by no means a history buff, but if a country has it in its official history then it should be mentioned. Actually I found a couple of other things on a tourism site about Berovo that I can include Capricornis 22:26, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  If his father and his mother were ethnic Bulgarians there is no way for him to have been "ethnic Macedonian", even if we don't take into account that Macedonian nation and ethnics were unheard of before the mid-20th century.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.242.191.2 (talk) 13:49, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  ethnic Macedonian in R.Macedonia 

message: ‎User:Voritlas, using the site of a local school as a reliable source in the field of history is frivolous. Please read the requirements for reliability of historical sources on Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources (history). In many historical topics, scholarship is divided, so several scholarly positions should be relied upon. Some people masquerading as scholars actually present fringe views outside of the accepted practice, and these should not be used. To determine scholarly opinions about a historical topic, consult the following sources in order:
# Recent scholarly books and chapters on the historiography of the topic
# "Review Articles", or historiographical essays that explicitly discuss recent scholarship in an area.
# Similarly conference papers that were peer reviewed in full before publication that are field reviews or have as their central argument the historiography
# Journal articles or peer reviewed conference papers that open with a review of the historiography.
For example per John Van Antwerp Fine: "Until the late 19th century both outside observers and those Bulgaro-Macedonians who had an ethnic consciousness believed that their group, which is now two separate nationalities, comprised a single people, the Bulgarians. Thus the reader should ignore references to ethnic Macedonians in the Middle ages which appear in some modern works. In the Middle ages and into the 19th century, the term ‘Macedonian’ was used entirely in reference to a geographical region. Anyone who lived within its confines, regardless of nationality could be called a Macedonian...Nevertheless, the absence of a national consciousness in the past is no grounds to reject the Macedonians as a nationality today." Check: "The Early Medieval Balkans: A Critical Survey from the Sixth to the Late Twelfth Century," University of Michigan Press, 1991, , pp. 36–37. The same fact is confirmed by another reliable source, specialized in the history of North Macedonia, that claims, prior to the Balkan Wars, i.e. at the end of the Ottoman rule, Macedonist ideas were shared not from significant community, or the like, but only by a handful of intellectuals: check the Historical Dictionary of the Republic of Macedonia, Dimitar Bechev, Scarecrow Press, 2009, , p. 140. According to Loring M. Danforth: The political and military leaders of the Slavs of Macedonia at the turn of the (20th) century seem not to have heard the call for a separate Macedonian national identity; they continued to identify themselves in a national sense as Bulgarians rather than Macedonians[...] (They) never seem to have doubted "the predominantly Bulgarian character of the population of Macedonia". For more see: "The Macedonian conflict: ethnic nationalism in a transnational world", Princeton University Press, 1997, , p. 64. Dimitar Popgeorgiev is described as an activist of the Bulgarian anti-Ottoman movement by Michael Palairet in Macedonia: A Voyage through History (Vol. 2, From the Fifteenth Century to the Present), Cambridge Scholars Publishing, 2016, p. 115, , Berovski himself died in 1907 in the town of Kyustendil, Bulgaria, whose mayor he was in 1902 and where he had issued an "Appeal to the Bulgarian Citizens", published in 1897, where he appealed on the liberation of the "the Bulgarians in enslaved Macedonia". There is no concrete evidence that Berovski himself ever expressed a Macedonian national identity. On the contrary, from the presented sources the exact opposite conclusion is necessary. Jingiby (talk) 07:53, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Site of a local school as a reliable source.