Talk:Subprime crisis impact timeline

message: A prior version of this article claimed NetBank was the first FDIC-insured bank to fail since the S&L crisis, but that is clearly false.  Actual figures from the FDIC (all failures since 10/1/2000 and historical report of all failures since FDIC began in 1934) show that the only years EVER with zero FDIC failures were 2005 and 2006; the streak was broken earlier in 2007 before NetBank's failure.  2008 has had one bank failure already.  --RBBrittain (talk) 22:51, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: NetBank

message: In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :) 
* "Netbank loss" :
** 
** 
DumZiBoT (talk) 08:58, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Bot report : Found duplicate references !

message: The timeline excludes several important actions such as the encouragement by the clinton administration to make mortgage loans based upon race or neighborhood. In addition it excludes the numerous attempts that were made to try to circumvent the problem. As usual wikipedia shows its bias. 17:34, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia is whatever its editors make it.  It's a lot of work for free, for most of us anyway. Feel free to find WP:reliable sources and contribute. Carol Moore 21:09, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Reality and reliable sources have a liberal bias.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.18.170.151 (talk) 05:52, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Timeline Bias

message: *This subsection moved from another page where not relevant
I want to point out that there appears to be a POV fork of this page at Subprime crisis impact timeline. That timeline is filled events not mentioned on this page, who's relationship to the mortgage crisis is marginal and disputed, making it read like a POV fork of this article. For example, it prominently features events like the Equal Credit Opportunity Act and the Community Reinvestment Act in the 1970's. What do those things have to do with a mortgage crisis in 2008? IMO the timeline there needs to be brought into agreement with this article, otherwise it is just a POV fork of this article. LK (talk) 08:57, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure what "POV fork" is supposed to mean but that timeline needs to be shortened considerably and perhaps stripped of things that are tangential, like ECOA. I think one can make a case for the CRA, but there's no need to reach back that far or that tangentially. If "POV fork" means "mess" than I agree, as most finance stories on this website are a mess to some degree.--JohnnyB256 (talk) 20:39, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry about the jargon. Here's a wiki link to the internal Wikipedia article about point of view based content forking. LK (talk) 10:59, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No problem. I need to educate myself about these things.--JohnnyB256 (talk) 12:30, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

text: Anyone mind if I move it there?? Carol Moore 01:43, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: POV fork at [[Subprime crisis impact timeline]]

message: ::First, this page was created by Farcaster, who creates a lot of pages which some consider POV forks, so please be consistent and look at all the other "forks" he's created.
::Second, a lot of articles have timelines, including on this topic. I would have a very good argument which I won't reveal at this time why it is far more POV to delete the article.
::Third, while it does need some work to delete extraneous or overly explained info, most of the stuff in it is relevant.
::Fourth, I have 4 WP:RS showing how ECOA is used to enforce CRA and just haven't gotten around to putting them in CRA or Timeline or Subprime article.  Because of danged sinus condition behind on a lot of things but starting to catchup.Carol Moore 21:53, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The main article Subprime mortgage crisis in section "Government policies" lists at least 4 WP:RS how CRA contributed to the crisis and at least 4 other WP:RS that claim that it didn't contribute. That means to choose one side would be POV and so it must be listed in the timeline at this time. Further you claim "I have 4 WP:RS showing how ECOA is used to enforce CRA", which shows that ECOA is not POV at this time either. That can change in the future after a consensus will emerge. --Gogino (talk) 03:11, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Re Second. All articles with timelines I could find were very selective. Could you list these articles so we can see if they can replace this one? --Gogino (talk) 03:36, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: First, I don't understand the comment above by Gogino.  Second I made clear relation of EOAC and CRA in CRA article and here. What other alleged POV's do you see?  And I also answered the Fork argument. As for Subprime mortgage crisis, that is the article that is POV because it is a haphazard compilation of WP:OR theories.  It would be better served by being a much longer and detailed version of a timeline.  Causality often can be found in a review of events, which is why those supporting the WP:OR at Subprime mortgage crisis would want to see this article eliminated. I think unless we come up with better evidence should get rid of that POV tag at top of article.  Carol Moore 22:14, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments after moving talk section here

message: The timeline should include the Marquette Bank Supreme Court decision of 1978.drh (talk) 23:30, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Marquette decision

message: This article fails to mention the garantees that the US and European governments give to the banks. Which now means that this goverments are now on the hook for the trillions of dollars of potential losses in the financial sector. Not to mention the unknow amount of potential derivatives losses of the banks.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.21.214.42 (talk) 16:57, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: you can add information, just find a reliable book or newspaper article and summarize it and reference it.  Decora (talk) 14:28, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Government Garantees

message: The financial crisis included subprime mortgage securities (which contained a lot of refinancings and home equity lines of credit, not real mortgages), but it also included CLOs which were stuffed with leveraged buyout junk bonds, and most of all, the Synthetic CDO market, which some have described as a 'ponzi scheme' and 'gambling' (whether it was gambling on mortgages, which were mostly refinancings, or on other Synthetic CDOs). So, essentially, if a vast portion of the market is basically people gambling on home equity lines of credit and refinancings, is it really accurate to just call it 'subprime crisis'?   IMHO i feel it is better to call it a financial crisis timeline but i guess its not a huge deal. Decora (talk) 14:28, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: new name needed?

message: ...
SUGGESTED DRAFT > NEW FIRST AND THIRD PARAS
In the interests of moving editing forward, may I suggest a draft first and third paragraph to ease readers into the subject, with a little more context? I am afraid I will have to leave any linking to others more Wikipedia proficient. But this may serve as a framework for answering concerns raised by the editors about the neutrality of the article. 
---------------------------
DRAFT FIRST AND THIRD PARAS
Acceptance of the term Global Financial Crisis, over other references like Global Finance Crisis, marks an early adaptation by markets and communities to worldwide recession. Evolving debate centres on immediate events leading up to the crises, and, increasingly, potential historic causes of this and earlier recessions and depressions. 
[SECOND PARA .... as existing] 
Contention and controversy surround causes of the GFC, public debate deeply riven by accusations of ideology. Concerns range from legislative process to pandemic corruption. Regardless of agenda, long-term timelines show a quickening pattern of economic collapse and regrowth, with more frequent meltdowns and escalating losses.
--------------------------- 
Dunno if that really helps, but might at least form a kick-off point.
jas
Avaiki (talk) 02:07, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  draft head para adds 

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