Talk:Bed and breakfast

message: CAIK does not appear to have a website and is not anything more than a discussion group that does get together every so often.  IT is not a formal organization with an association as it were behind it. While it is probably helpful for the innkeepers involved it does not really  belong here as a resource.
:Fine by me.
:If you could remember to sign your comments using four tildes: ~~~~ , we'd be grateful - I'm very prone to forget this myself, too...Gaimhreadhan (kiwiexile at DMOZ) talk  • 00:05, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wish to remove CAIK 

message: I would also like to make the following concrete proposals for external links on the renamed Bed and Breakfast article:
1) Reinstate the DMOZ external link
2) Reach agreement in principle to having ONE authoritative, global and up-to-date external link for at least as long as DMOZ is broken.
3) Reach agreement in principle to having the minimum number of regional directory links if the consensus is that ONE authoritative, global and up-to-date external link does not yet exist and for at least as long as DMOZ is broken.
4) Try and reach a consensus here as to which external link(s) conform to (2) and (3) above.
5) If and when a consensus has been reached, submit that consensus to Nishkid64 so that he can incorporate those two or three external links in the protected page if he deems it appropriate.
6) Explore whether it is technically possible to then open up the article for normal editing but retain the protection only on the external links section.
Gaimhreadhan 00:35, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposal to aid consensus

message: I suggest moving the article to Bed and Breakfast (both Bed, Breakfast capitalised) to conform with Wikipedia naming conventions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by W. Frank (talk • contribs)  (but actually made by Gaimhreadhan, when logged into W. Frank's account by mistake on a shared workstation and a relatively new editor - sorry!)
:Agreed; a quick Google search seems to back up the idea that the proper name has both words capitalized. EVula // talk // ☯ // 04:14, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Moving

message: "In the British Isles where hotel prices are often outrageous". I agree they are outrageous compared with most of the rest of Europe, but this word is probably POV. - —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.238.139.18 (talk • contribs) 
*I noticed that too. When this page gets unlocked can someone change it. British Isles hotel prices are not outrageous in my eyes! Cls14 17:00, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Outrageous: POV 

message: I'm somewhat confused about the baby throw out with the bathwater on this specific topic. While there are no "commercial" link on hotel or motel in a link section, there are multiple links to specific hotels and those specific hotels all link to their commerical external site. 
if i can wiki hotel, pop to "library hotel" via embedded link to wiki entry, then pop to the commercial site from there, why would the exclusion of such links be required here?
perhaps do what hotels does, or motels to a greatly lesser extent.
link to several rating, recommendation sites, set up a wiki stub or article on them, then allow the visiter who links bed & breakfasts to be able to get to external information on that lodging as the can for the library hotel, hilton hotel, motel6, etc..
Childhoodtrauma 01:24, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I recently stumbled upon Bed & Breakfast Inns Online, which might be good for something like that. It seems to be a pretty general directory (and it's even international!). -Jacquismo 23:57, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  linking a bed and breakfast community site 

message: Actually there are 20,000 B&B's / Country Inns in the US. Many are located in small towns with no discernible attraction. (Except the owners of the B & B's think there is...)  One could say that the more profitable or successful or prominent B & B's are often located in destination towns as alternatives to Hotels and Motels. Very often, smaller B & B's are they are the only lodging in a small town.
...."in some smaller B&Bs they will be expected to be away from the B&B during the main part of the day. This arrangement, however, may not be inconvenient since many popular B&Bs are located in beach and mountain areas, such as Hawaii, New England, and Colorado where daytime recreation and tourism activities are popular."
OK, almost none of the B&Bs in the world are situated in the afforemention U.S. states, or even 'beach and mountain areas.'  How about we phrase it "many B&Bs are located in areas which offer a range of tourist and recreation activities"?Mark76uk 22:56, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wildy USA-centric paragraph 

message: news site for b&b owners (worldwide site) [[User_talk:rwrhallam|  —Preceding undated comment added 10:46, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed new external links 

message: Have you checked, Gila, to see if there are any sites in 
B&Bs in Israel, booking directly with owners and 
 B&B Association of Rome, with international B&B links that are not also replicated in the two prior suggestions?
If there are,I would still see dangers in a national list proliferating - there is the potential for more than 100 external links if only one site per country is allowed. I think we should stick to Worldwide directories, and, if those are insufficiently helpful, a few Regional sites...Gaimhreadhan (kiwiexile at DMOZ) talk  • 16:33, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Am I right in thinking that the Israeli site is limited to establishments in the city of Jerusalem?...Gaimhreadhan (kiwiexile at DMOZ) talk  • 16:43, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I looked again, and you're right. It's an association for Jerusalem B&Bs, when we are aiming for international or national associations. There must be something more inclusive, but I'd have to go searching for it. --Gilabrand 17:07, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In my DMOZ "job", I do this searching on a daily basis, and sysops and webmasters also submit to the DMOZ list for inclusion. I've yet to find anything that does a significantly better job than the too I've mentioned so my approach would be to ask other establishments to list on those two. (At DMOZ we often have a considerable backlog but at privatestay.com the B&B's can list themselves and instantaneously). Do you want to strike thru the Israeli and Roman proposals?...Gaimhreadhan (kiwiexile at DMOZ) talk  • 17:25, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Objections to proposed new external links 

message: Apart from general article cleanup, it might be worth mentioning the UK situation regarding the use of bed and breakfast for overnight accommodation for the homeless - a commonly exploitative arrangement due to the lack of tenancy rights. See Shelter (Bed and breakfast hotels). 86.161.33.49 (talk) 02:02, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: UK situation

message: This request was added to the wrong talk page (The user was following the request to discuss new ELs but the wrong address was given in the article) I've copied it here for viewing by others - X201 (talk) 07:54, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: New external link

message: "Since 1879 the average per capita disposable income of Australians has been greater than that of New Zealanders"
I know my economic history, and Australian incomes didn't overtake those of NZ until well after the second world war, not until the 1960s - if not later. At the end of the 1800s, NZers had the highest incomes in the world, ahead of Britain, the USA or Australia.
I have changed the sentence to read "Since the 1960s the average per capita disposable income of Australians has been greater than that of New Zealanders"
121.73.7.84 (talk) 08:44, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Have you got a link so that it can be added as a citation? As it stands that whole section has a citation needed flag on it and will be deleted if no citations are forthcoming. - X201 (talk) 09:08, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dodgy statistics 

message: Can User:Travelegia please explain the addition of links to various B&B directories.  Particularly in relationship to the following.
* Cites are provided to link to sources of information for verification.  References that simply link to the online directory are not verifying their inclusion in the Innstar B&B Guidebook Review.  They are therefore simply functioning as External links.
* Wikipedia is not a links directory. 
* Wikipedia is not a travel guide. 
* Links to other websites should only be used to provide factual information to the reader that cannot otherwise be added to the article.  What are these links providing that is factual about the article subject?
* Could you indicate if you are allied to any of the websites in question please.  Editors should follow Wikipedia policy on possible conflicts of interest.
* This article is written in UK English.  "Travellers" is spelt in UK English with two ls.
Thanks. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 16:41, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  B&B Directories 

message: In case there are any questions or issues with the removal of the "Trade Association" subsections recently - it was done for several reasons:
* Contents were universally US focused, and therefore had serious issues under WP:WORLDVIEW. (And were tagged as such for some months)
* In most cases the listed associations were added for reasons of promotion (in many cases by accounts with apparent WP:COI/WP:SPA issues - the "bnb-network" for example was added by a user who does nothing else OTHER than add references/links to this commercial entity to the project)
* In most cases the subject of each section had no references supporting notability and therefore had serious issues under WP:VER.
* In some cases there were external links masquerading as "references" and therefore had serious issues under WP:LINKSPAM.
* In most cases the wording of the sub-section represented thinly veiled promotion of the organisation. And therefore had serious issues under WP:ADVERT. (Suspect wording included: "members also benefit from a free website", "the network handles all aspects of the room (pricing, advertising, reservations, payment collection etc)". Such wording had little encyclopaedic value and served only as promotion.
The section is (now) much better served describing the concept of self-regulation and rating in general. Rather than dealing with the benefits/details of every single B&B trade association. Cheers. Guliolopez (talk) 17:44, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Trade Associations

message: To the users (with apparent conflict of interest) who insist on using this encyclopedic article as an advocacy platform for the concept of B&Bs in general, or a specific B&B, B&B type, industry group or whatever, I have a simple message: STOP!. Wikipedia has very clear policies on SPAM and soapboxing. Put simply, Wikipedia articles should not be worded to promote advocacy for anything. As such, there is no place in this article for recently added advertising fluff like the following: "a Bed and Breakfast is much, much more", "(B&B's offer) a unique environment of hospitality", "(B&Bs allow enjoyment of a) visit to the fullest, and – perhaps most of all – to leave guests with a memorable visit that will encourage them to come back year after year." This form of commentary, uncited opinion pushing and SPAM fails several Wikipedia guidelines. So stop pushing these agendas and find another medium to promote your business or industry. 
Further, editors who insist on including links to "their" B&B industry group or regulatory body I would add this: There are hundreds of such organisations, and this article is no place to list or link them. There is a longstanding agreement here that new links need to be discussed before being added - to specifically avoid this article becoming a spam-ridden linkfarm.
Wikipedia IS NOT A FREE PROMOTIONAL CHANNEL. (We're interested in objective and verifiable encyclopedic content. Not spam.) Guliolopez (talk) 11:54, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  SPAM and soapboxing 

message: The External links section which some of you know and love so well (talk here passim) is now all book citations. At the risk of starting a new External links war, should we rename the section to Further Reading or Bibliography or some such (I prefer the former as being simpler)? SimonTrew (talk) 20:23, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Except they're not Further reading.  The article is about the subject of Bed & Breakfast.  The books are for the most part a list of manuals on how to run a bed and breakfast.  Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, not a reading list or a "how to" guide.  --Escape Orbit (Talk) 13:12, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly why i asked the question rather than just change it. i'm inclined to agree with you though i still am a bit unsatisfied not sure why but if i pin it down i will get back to you. SimonTrew (talk) 00:13, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: External links are Further Reading

message: This article seems like a clearing house for research on bed and breakfast choice worldwide. Is that necessary? Does it add to the understanding of what B&Bs are? A lot of the discussion and analysis feels very much like original research.
As well, I feel there's some dodgy use of numbers in the claim that New Zealand has more B&Bs than Australia based on the number listed on one particular website that itself doesn't seem hugely notable. For a scale of comparison, I checked the breakdown by state in Australia and South Australia apparently has 3 B&Bs, compared to NSW with 10, and the remaining 36 all located in Victoria. Now, it may turn out that there are twelve times as many B&Bs in Victoria than there are in South Australia but unless we have a more reliable method, I'm going to put on my skeptic's hat and say that the B&Bs listed on the site are not a random sample of all Australian B&Bs.
I suspect that the nature of B&Bs means that they more than any other accomodation type are going to be underrepresented on the internet.
Finally, speculation about the reasons that a given area has more B&Bs doesn't become acceptable on wikipedia just because your theory is supported by citable evidence - no original research means you can only present theories that have been published elsewhere. 152.91.9.219 (talk) 07:38, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Weird article & odd claims about Aus / NZ B&B 

message: "Spain does not have a B&B culture like Great Britain." 
This is true, we have hostales, hoteles, pensiones, and posadas. 
B&B's which are intended for those tourists who only speak English and don't want to mix themselves with the "locals". And on top of that, Spaniards love to have dinner very late! At B&B's we'd have to go to bed with empty stomachs, good grief!  
Furthermore, citation [5] is quite offensive and lacks scientific approach. Spaniards shake their heads of when they see people behaving like in their own country and not respecting the way of life of the hosting country. 
So, why not mentioning that some British expats, or locals - who understand this market - open up B&B for English tourists who don't actually like to be abroad, but do it because of the weather?
--217.154.84.2 (talk) 11:37, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spain  

message: There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Bed & Breakfast (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RMCD bot 04:47, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move discussion in progress