Talk:Kaifeng Jews/Archive 1

message: There are only 400 Jews left in Kaifeng today? When was this last census taken? If the number of Jews in Kaifeng only number 400, then that community is really in danger of disappearing within a generation or two. Will the Israeli government and PRC government allow the small number of Jews living in Kaifeng to make aliyah to Israel?
Thank you for your time. Please get back to me when you can.
Best wishes,
Albert
:Actually, I believe the number of active Jews is probably even less than 400. From what I've read, the community is no longer active nor is the religion practiced anymore, having been absorbed into the larger community by the early twentieth century. Also, they probably don't legally count as Jews because they traced their descent patrilineally instead of matrilineally. --Yuje 16:23, August 28, 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for the info. This community is really in troubling of disappearing soon.
Best wishes,
Albert
:Which happens when a community is not discriminated against.
Is there any effort in trying to return these 400 to normative Judaism?  Might it be possible to rescue this community?  I know one family made aliya but it would be hard to preserve the Kaifeng community with only one family. 128.91.27.93 01:40, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Only 400? 

message: the article needs to answer this:
what language/languages is/are used by kaifeng jews? is there some type of judeo-chinese language? Gringo300 15:59, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: They are generally believed to have assimilated in most ways with the general populace, right? Is there any reason to think they (eventually) spoke anything other than the local variant of Chinese? Is it not written somewhere that most (or nearly all) forgot how to read religious Hebrew? --Dpr 05:49, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed, there is no evidence of any Jud?o-Chinese language.  There is, however, evidence of confusion between r/d and r/l in later sifre torah from the Kaifeng community.  I don't know that the article "needs" to "answer" anything...the article tells, it doesn't respond...  If you feel it necessary to add something to the article about there being no evidence of the existence of Jud?o-Chinese, go for it, but I don't see how that does anything to add useful information... TomerTALK 05:06, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: To be able to add any kind of information such as that, i'd first have to do a lot of research on the chinese language (which by the way i'm eventually planning to do). right now, i'm occupied with doing research on the geography of alaska, and i think i will remain so for quite a while. Gringo300 16:00, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: language or languages of kaifeng jews

message: Hello folks,
How do you add a link to the Kaifeng Jewish web page without actually typing the actual web address of that link down?
:Hello...not sure exactly what you're asking...but if you want to have a link that goes to a website without the URL showing as the text, go like this whatever text you want to actually appear here which will show up looking like this: whatever text you want to actually appear here.  If you need help, let me know what the URL is for the page you want to link to, and what text you actually want to appear instead of the URL itself.  Also, if you just want to insert a link w/o any text, just go , which will show up like this: .  Cheers, Tomertalk 08:17, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah?!  OK, I think I know now what you were trying to do and what you were asking about.  I reinserted a slightly edited version of your text, along with a link the way I think you were trying to do it.  See this edit.  Tomertalk 08:39, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

text: nafaik, sadly. :-(  Tomertalk 07:55, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added a link 

message: Hi guys,
I was sent some articles regarding the Kaifeng Jews last week. They were all written in Chinese Mandarin. Unfortunately, I don't have a strong command of Chinese Mandarin, so I can't read the articles on the Kaifeng Jews that were sent to me. The links to the articles are as follows:
http://news.sina.com.cn/c/2002-08-06/1145661803.html
*The article has a telling statement: "Moshe" Zhang Xing-Wang, the self-appointed spiritual head of Kaifeng Jewry's remnants, criticized the (unnamed) Jin Family (Shlomo, Dina, and Shalva) for making aliyah. "We are unlike them; we are patriotic." Perhaps he made this statement in light of the PRC's stance on (religious) emigration.
http://www.dolc.de/forum/viewthread.php?tid=279809
http://tech.qq.com/a/20060216/000065.htm
 
http://www.cnhistory.cn/history/china/8566.htm
:Try using "Babel Fish" to translate the entire page. All you have to do is type in the url and then the language (Simplified Chinese-English) and that's it. However, sometimes the grammar is not the most fluent, but its enough to read. (!Mi luchador nombre es amoladora de la carne y traigo el dolor! 10:00, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Articles on the Kaifeng Jews in Chinese 

message: According to a modern translation of the 1489 Stele by Mr. Tiberiu Weiz, a teacher of Hebrew History and Chinese Religion and author of THE KAIFENG STONE INSCRIPTIONS: The Legacy of the Jewish Community in Ancient China, some of the Kaifeng Jewish Community ?Abandoned Bianliang? (Kaifeng) and fled south along with soon-to-be Emperor Gaozong to live in Hangzhou.
There is also mention of Jewish soldiers whose bravery and loyalty are likened to General Yue Fei. When they returned from war, they were given land. I don?t remember if this ment that Jews served under Yue Fei or not. I don?t have the book infront of me right now.
I know the Jews were called up to serve under the mongol armies during the Yuan Dynasty. But how neat would it be to learn that Kaifeng Jews had served under Yue Fei? (!Mi luchador nombre es amoladora de la carne y traigo el dolor! 10:18, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have the book in front of me right now and it wasn't the soldiers who fought under Yue Fei, it was the soldiers who fought under the campaigns of Emperor Taizong, the sencond Song ruler. When they returned from fighting the Liao, they were given land for supporting him. However, it wouldn't be that much of a leap for the soldiers to fight under Yue Fei. If they indeed lived in China since the Han Dynasty and had sired half Chinese children, then the Jews would have done everything to protect their new homeland of China. This includes fighting the invading Jurchen armies.(!Mi luchador nombre es amoladora de la carne y traigo el dolor! 02:29, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kaifeng Jews "Abandoned Bianliang" (Kaifeng) 

message: The story of Ricci and Ai Tian is repeated in many secondary sources, but I would really like to read the original contemporary account of this incident. None of the secondary sources seem to say where this anecdote was first published. Can anyone help me find this? --Iustinus 17:28, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have three books out on the subject, so I'll check it up ASAP.  Oh, and I signed your comment, Albert.  Yodaat 02:24, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Juifs de Chine Leslie, Donald Daniel and Dehergne, Joseph. ?The preceding unsigned comment was added by Yodaat (talk ? contribs) 21:53, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ricci and Ai Tian 

message: When Ricci met Ai T'ien, he told him of his beliefs, including his Christian belief that the Messiah had come already.  Ai replied that that was impossible, after all, the Messiah was not supposed to come for another 10000 years.
Does anyone know where he got that number from?  Yodaat 02:00, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  10000 years?