Talk:Dominican Republic/Archive 2

message: This selection making the Trinitarios look racist which they weren't. Juan Pablo Duarte clearly stated that it was not a race thing, that he actually admire Haiti. Not all Trinitarios were white, Francisco del Rosario Sánchez was a mulatto. I understand there a growing anti-Dominican campaign ing on, but i thought this page was about facts not propaganda. 
update
Now the Trinitario inspire KKK, this page is about facts not propaganda. So please stop using this as way to spread propaganda. The Trinitario weren't racist, or all white. 
User:avfnx
 
U.S Military Control This part seems to be, perhaps, translated directly from Spanish.  In English, we cannot really say 'two periods' past, or 'four periods.'  Either time is measured in years, months or is a single 'period' of time. I'd replace these 'periods' with the exact number of years or months (I need to look this up though. Can anyone else verify some numbers?) Cuvtixo 19:36, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Creation of the Republic 

message: I have found the sources of the questionable statements that have caused much debate on this article.
" In 1838 Juan Pablo Duarte the son of a Spanish born merchant, formed along with Spanish descended Ramón Matías Mella and Francisco del Rosario Sanchez founded a racist secret society called La Trinitaria created to overthrow and undermine any government run by people of color. Driven by a belief in white supremacy and a desire to create a counter-revolutionary white-catholic run state, the Trinitarios declared independence from Haiti on February 27, 1844  . Drawing inspiration from St. Dominic's Order of Preachers responsible for the murders of hundreds of thousands of Jews and Moors during the Spanish Inquisition, The name Dominican Republic was chosen as a testament of white supremacy over individuals of color. This victory inspired other white supremacist movements in the western hemisphere, notably the Ku Klux Klan. The victory of La Trinataria also inspired significant parts of the plot of D.W. Griffith's famous silent movie "A Birth Of A Nation" in 1915.   "
The text under the "Creation of the Republic" is in-accurate ,the source does not support this text "In 1822 Haitian liberation forces unified the entire island under a free government of color, ending 300 years of colonial domination and slavery. Roads were built; school curriculums were changed from a Spanish view to a worldview. Institutions of European colonialism were also phased out, and replaced with ones more representative and respectful of Taino and African culture. Land was redistributed communally and individuals who had benefited from the Spanish invasion and domination of the island were rightfully expelled [5]."http://www.hispaniola.com/dominican_republic/info/history.php.The text cannot be found on the website.Also,This describes the Haitian occupation as a "liberation" (sound familiar?),its an overwhelmingly biased peace of text.
* Considering that 209.247.5.216 seems to have a history of vandalism and deletion (including this today), I think that many of his/her non-NPOV contributions should also be regarded as vandalism. -- LeCourT:C 05:27, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I Just want to add that i Agree with your point here. In this Dominican Republic Article their is a lot of propaganda Unaccurate information which can even be considered vandalish. Trinitario was in no part a racist movement even thougth it was a secret movement against spaniard colonization and haitian colonization too!EdwinCasadoBaez 00:47, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Birth of a nation Section. 

message: I will prove that it wasn't a racist movement, I will be collecting sources, and writing from Duarte himself. One more thing why so important to include that Trujillo (kill als0 lot Dominican) killed Haitians...first was know the creation of the Republic now is know the creation and develoment only to include that sentence. Why not also how Haiti trying kill the Spanish culture, how Dominicans of light skin had to hide in the the Cibao (and there werent hiding cause there were going be treated nice). Why can't we have History not propaganda. For those that don't understand where I'm coming from there a movement going on, that trying drag Dominican in the mud, so sorry if it seem like i have to much emotion, or edit this more then i should, but ya could see I didn't write propaganda, and Trujillo been 1/4 Haitian i would like other source, cause i have never heard of that. Thank you User Talk:avfnx
::I Just want to add that i Agree with your point here. In this Dominican Republic Article their is a lot of propaganda Unaccurate information which can even be considered vandalish. Trinitario was in no part a racist movement even thougth it was a secret movement against spaniard colonization and haitian colonization too!EdwinCasadoBaez 00:47, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Trinitario

message: No country in the world, except Vatican city, has a population that is 95% Roman Catholic.  That is not only grossly inaccurate, it is absurd. 
The Dominican Republic has a very old, large, and rapidly growing Anglican Church.
http://www.anglicancommunion.org/tour/diocese.cfm?IDind=632
This whole section is right out of the Catholic Encyclopedia and completely ignores the explosive growth of Protestant churches in the Dominican Republic, including Mormons and Pentacostals.  
Does anyone moderate this stuff?12.72.208.136 02:58, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please read the article again. The 95 % figure refers to the population adhering to Christianity, not to Roman Catholics. Also the growth of Protestant denominations is mentioned. The reference given is not the Catholic Encyclopedia. So I fail to see the problems you mention. VirtualDelight 10:20, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Religion 

message: Please confirm to me somewhere that states they didn't have Puerto Rican heritage.   64.131.205.111 21:36, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have changed "In the late 1800's and early 1900's large groups immigrated to the country from Venezuela and Puerto Rico, so much so that 2 of the country's former presidents (and rivals ironically) Juan Bosch and Joaquín Balaguer, both had Puerto Rican parents." to "In the late 1800's and early 1900's large groups immigrated to the country from Venezuela and Puerto Rico. Two of the country's former presidents Juan Bosch and Joaquín Balaguer, both had had parents who immigrated from Puerto Rico." as I think that "(and rivals ironically)" is personal opinion rather then fact. I did not change the fact of regarding Puerto Rican heritage. So I fail to see the problem here. I do have a problem with your undoing of all my recent edits to change the wording of one sub-section. VirtualDelight 21:41, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Puerto Rican Heritage of 2 Dominican Presidents 

message: I would like to request semi-protection for this page to avoid annonymous users creating edit wars. Does anyone know the right procedures for this? Dominican 22:35, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protection 

message: Sources state that Santo Domingo was the first capital of the americas.  I doubt i'll find any protest and have inserted it.  http://www.visiting-the-dominican-republic.com/dominican_republic_history.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.131.205.111 (talk • contribs) 
::it cant be the first capital because D.R became independent after other Countries(in 1844 i believe) Like USA. So probably D.C is the first capital or some other countries In L.AmericaEdwinCasadoBaez 07:06, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  First Capital 

message: I wish him the best in his further endeavors.  .. Though we could have done without some of the other comments.
"TACKLING THE ABUSES OF THE ADMINISTRATOR.
Mr.Edwin Casado and the rest of Wiki, it is clear for us,the rest of the wikipedian editors here, that the Administrator, presumably a Haitian or of Haitan decent, based on the " Haiti-centric" slant of the Article. ( in every history section, has to make a Haitian connection to it, like Ulisses Heaureax, who by the way, was only half-haitian, his mother was a cocola) is just censoring all other editors here. With his powers as an Administrator, he is like a god. He can delete everything he doesn't likes, he can lock anything that he feels is the empirical truth, whether there are verifiable sources or not. He can block anyone that he feels is a threat in making verifiable historical facts that he deems to be negative toward Haitians. Make arbitrary excuses to disparage any sources that goes contrary to his agenda. Yet,many of his own sources can't be verifiable. 
My additions of Boyer suppresing the Spanish language and Dominicans paying for the debt to France. The Dominican-Haitian Wars, were deleted, because it was counter to his objective.That is,to present DR as a " country that owes everything to Haitians". 
I've seen the article switching from a balanced one into an anti-dominican,Haiti-centric propaganda. The part where says that Trinitarios was a " racist" secret society, is a blatant hateful,racist point of view itself. If that were so, why people of color supported them? because of the ADDITION THAT I PRESENTED,AND THE ADMINISTRATOR DELETED. BECAUSE THE SPANISH-SPEAKERS WEREN'T HAPPY WITH THE TREATMENT THEY WERE GETTING. 
Some, my fellow editors, it is fruitless to have a decent discussion with this administrator. Forget about " concensus" and " verifiable source", because all that is ignored by this Administrator that is just bent of placing only what he see fits.  
In order for us to see a balanced article here, without censure, is having a neutral administrator. This individual isn't and we need to let the higher ups know about the abuses of this administrator.  
Luckily, this discussion page hasn't been censored and serves us as evidence of the biases and abuses of this Administrator, including his diatriabes against the Dominican people. So we can print this pagge as evidence. Let's not give up, because there is still hope.70.177.181.129 01:29, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Even if we did have some problems I do respect the Passion of [[User_talk:Platanogenius]] 

message: The following has no reference: "Baseball is by far the most popular sport in the Dominican Republic today, as it once was in Cuba and Puerto Rico."  I will change this sentence if no reference is forthcoming. Mwinog2777 03:27, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is a fact. Dominican 12:59, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sports 

message: This talk page was refactored by 64.131.205.111 at May 29, 2007. For later reference: The talk page before refactoring can be seen here: []. VirtualDelight 14:02, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Refactoring of talk page

message: Some statements in this section need to cite their sources:
* 1.2 million speak Haitian creole "fluently".
* The paragraph uses the custom of eating rice and beans as a proof of African descent.
* Family structure as a proof of African descent.
* It ignores the Spanish heritage by calling language and religion "left overs".
Dominican 05:07, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for your quick answer, user 64.131.205.111. Wao! You really keep good track of who does what in this article. Another question: why the "1.2 million speak Creole fluently" does not need citation? Can I change the number at will without citation either? Also, can a registered user (other than just an IP address) comment on this post? Dominican 13:30, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources for "Culture" section 

message: #Please Present them in a Delicate Manner and Do Not discuss(argue against) ideas Below this Line
#Remember our goal is to Make Dominican Republic an A Class Article so do not argue and be Constructive
#Please Write any idea for helping the Quality of the Dominican Article. It Can Be New Sections.Expanding a Section.Deleting A Section but do not go against any ideas written Here
#Please sign Comments and thougths with a four tildes and to put multiple : in front of comments so it can show differences between comment
Started By User:EdwinCasadoBaez
===TOPICS===
*Religion:
*Economy:
*Crime:
:Crime section should not be deleted (it exists in other articles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Dominican_Republic#Crime_Section) but the crime page may be expanded.  It is a relavent part of DR.
----
:I removed from the Crime Section a Sentence involving DDP and Trinitarios two gangs based in New York. Even thougth they are true gangs because i seem them fight, they still not significant in the fact that they are not based in the Dominican Republic and for that reason it shouldnt be included in the Dominican Article. Some of the Members of those two NY based gangs are not Even Dominican born or Dominican Descent at all. Even thought the names are to be involved with DR it should not be included at all in this article.What should be included in the Crime in the Dominican Republic article is:
#Crime High Levels after the 2003 collapse of the Dominican Economy(from sources)
#Drug Traficking from Colombia to the United States
#Laws Prohibiting Alcohol sales in DR after Midnight to avoid late-night Crimes(this law those exist)
#Assaults incrementing in some Touristic zones.
:Please Comment in this ideas in the Botton Section!EdwinCasadoBaez 00:22, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have brought this section into chronological order. I cant think of any objections to this. I also have removed claims clearly not covered by the source given. I would like to ask anyone reinstating them to do so only with supporting sources. I would like to state that I also support the sourced changes by Dominican. VirtualDelight 09:45, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I Believe the Dominican Republic article should have a small overview about the Santiago light rail and the Santo Domingo Metro in the Transportation Section!!We should add about the National designated Highway/Freeway lines Named DR-1,DR-2,DR-3,DR-4,and DR-5 that sorround the countryEdwinCasadoBaez 07:42, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I think that's a good idea. A cuisine sub-section is fine by me. Eventually we can expand enough so as to create another article. We can extract ideas from the Cuban cuisine and Puerto Rican cuisine articles and references. Dominican 07:13, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I found a very good reference on the origins of Merengue. I can write a few paragraphs to add to the front page and maybe add a few interesting comments on the actual page. The book I'm talking about is Antes de que te vayas, written by Rafael Chaljub Mejía and it's available online at Grupo León Jimenes webpage here . Dominican 17:47, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: New Ideas and Thougths

message: *Religion:
*Economy:
*Crime:
:Crime section should not be deleted (it exists in other articles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Dominican_Republic#Crime_Section) but the crime page may be expanded.  It is a relavent part of DR.
----
:I removed from the Crime Section a Sentence involving DDP and Trinitarios two gangs based in New York. Even thougth they are true gangs because i seem them fight, they still not significant in the fact that they are not based in the Dominican Republic and for that reason it shouldnt be included in the Dominican Article. Some of the Members of those two NY based gangs are not Even Dominican born or Dominican Descent at all. Even thought the names are to be involved with DR it should not be included at all in this article.What should be included in the Crime in the Dominican Republic article is:
#Crime High Levels after the 2003 collapse of the Dominican Economy(from sources)
#Drug Traficking from Colombia to the United States
#Laws Prohibiting Alcohol sales in DR after Midnight to avoid late-night Crimes(this law those exist)
#Assaults incrementing in some Touristic zones.
:Please Comment in this ideas in the Botton Section!EdwinCasadoBaez 00:22, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have brought this section into chronological order. I cant think of any objections to this. I also have removed claims clearly not covered by the source given. I would like to ask anyone reinstating them to do so only with supporting sources. I would like to state that I also support the sourced changes by Dominican. VirtualDelight 09:45, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I Believe the Dominican Republic article should have a small overview about the Santiago light rail and the Santo Domingo Metro in the Transportation Section!!We should add about the National designated Highway/Freeway lines Named DR-1,DR-2,DR-3,DR-4,and DR-5 that sorround the countryEdwinCasadoBaez 07:42, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I think that's a good idea. A cuisine sub-section is fine by me. Eventually we can expand enough so as to create another article. We can extract ideas from the Cuban cuisine and Puerto Rican cuisine articles and references. Dominican 07:13, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I found a very good reference on the origins of Merengue. I can write a few paragraphs to add to the front page and maybe add a few interesting comments on the actual page. The book I'm talking about is Antes de que te vayas, written by Rafael Chaljub Mejía and it's available online at Grupo León Jimenes webpage here . Dominican 17:47, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: TOPICS

message: I have one question why this:
[Rafael Trujillo]] government for a time was supported by the USA, the Catholic Church and the Dominican elite; even after the death of Dominicans and over 20,000 Haitians. 
Is there something that not a fact there. Other thing i was reading this:
Along with renaming towns and mountains to himself Trujillio eliminated all textbooks of the History of the country and had them re-written to suit the needs of promoting present day Dominican nationalism. In 1937 around 50,000 Haitians and Black Dominicans were killed in order to whiten up the country. Different racial categories were created for the various complexions and hair texture, a policy that is un-offically continued today.
And i couldn't find were it was cited. maybe i read to fast and missed it. 
Avfnx 03:04, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  I'm not going get editing war 

message: I added former president of dr's photo Ulises Heureaux as well as information about him http://countrystudies.us/dominican-republic/8.htm .  64.131.205.111 16:02, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ulises Heureaux 

message: I re-did the referencing for the page to conform to manual of style guidelines, etc.  I also removed a couple of references which didn't substantiate the claim they were referencing, or were dead.  --Haemo 00:39, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: It seems like every topic someone has come in and mention Haiti at some point. And he or she says that 99% of Dominicans are Black and bases this in a student project instead of an official source?  Yes, the two countries share the island and there are a few things we may or may not have in common but whoever was editing this article just wanted to make it seem like DR and Haiti are the same country. (01:43, 31 May 2007) (edit) (undo)
24.199.88.22 (Talk)  
Platanogenius, you were blocked for a reason.  A day after you were blocked after making many racist and anti-haitian comments you come back with more antihaitian and biased comments. Thanks, but no thanks for your contributions.  64.131.205.111 02:13, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is this an article about the Dominican Republic or Haiti? 

message: Whoever is doing this nonsense need to stop. As a Haitian, this need to include Haiti in every category is idiotic.
The majority of Dominicans are mixed and are mulattoes, they are not 90% black and wherever that information was recieved is completely wrong.  The U.S. policy on race is not the staus quo of every nation.
The Haitian illegal disputes belong in a different article, it should not be in a summarized version of this country history.
The History section was horrendous and whomever decided to alter it made a mockery of Haiti history and Dominican history.  Most of the information was completely wrong and ruined even Haiti history.
So stop this nonsense of highlighting Haiti in a place where it don't belong.  Keep doing it and I'll have to continue to destroy every single argument and put up real facts with hard conclusive backing to shut this process down.
Using websites as viable sources is the worse form. 15:58, 31 May 2007 Paneiro (Talk | contribs) (160,909 bytes) (I fixed most of the problem) 
Using websites is form within wikipedia.  It allows for easy verificatin of information.  Also do not vandalize by removing cited material.  64.131.205.111 17:08, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've filed a formal case to hopefully put an end to this nonsense. Wholesale blanking of sections of the article is unacceptable, and this endless parade of socks has to stop.--Rosicrucian 21:32, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  I fixed most of the problem 

message: #1- There is an issue with the reliability of the CUNY study in the demographic study.  The link to the resource is locked and cannot be access free of charge, thus, not making the resource available to anyone.  Also, the resource states "Blacks and Mulattoes make up about 90% of contemporary Dominican Population."  which can be viewed here. 
http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0094-582X(199805)25%3A3%3C126%3ATTOBSI%3E2.0.CO%3B2-W
Yet, The statement is not present in the current information on the page and states a false statement that 90% have african roots only.  It would be more appropriate to state that 90% have African and European roots rather than the former.
2- The resource provided to back the other groups in the D.R. (Haitians, Jews, Germans, Italians, etc) is not to be found.  It leads directly to the CIA world Factbook that those not state such a statement.  More resources is needed.
3-  The resource on the headline "Abolished slavery and unification of Spanish and French Haiti" leads to a study on the Haitian revolution rather than staying related to the D.R.  Also, there is 2 citations that leads to the same information.  That needs to be removed.
4- The Third reference Guitar, Lynne. History of the Dominican Republic. Hispaniola.com. Retrieved on 2007-05-29 does not state anything about unifed free government of color.  This is a misuse of information provided by the refernce above.  This need to be changed.
5- The Fifth reference Hutchinson, Sydney (2006). Dominican Republic - background. Merengue típico. Retrieved on 2007-05-29. states nothing about  Ulises Heureaux and Gregorio Luperón leading the War of Restoration. In fact, it no state nothign about the War itself.  This needs to be corrected.
6- The Culture section have not reliable evidence  for the statement thatit states.  For example, 
African cultural elements are most prominent in food (rice and beans), family structure, religious syncranization and music
How does family structure and food relates to Africa?
Religious Syncranization is not a African element.  This need to be changed.
As you can see, there are huge flaws in this page that needs correction.  However, it seems Mr. Edgar181 is reverting anything edited for unknown purposes.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Paneiro1122 (talk • contribs).
:I'm not seeing anyone named Edgar181 editing the article, and I just checked the last month's edits to make sure. Are you sure you're not referring to someone else?--Rosicrucian 17:54, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have made one edit to the article, in which I reverted the blanking of a section of the article and I made one prior edit to this talk page in which I removed an abusive comment by .  To say that I am "reverting anything edited" is simply ridiculous.  I blocked  for the comment (which seemed to be promising to "edit war"), for what appeared to be vandalism to the article, and for the apparent sock puppetry.  Paneiro, you need to pick just one of your accounts and edit from that one alone.  I'm open to unblocking the Paneiro account (unless the sockpuppet case finds that you have been evading a prior block) and you can edit using that account alone.  Please be civil in your conversations with others and please abide by the three revert rule, and please sign your talk page comments using four ~'s (it's impossible to follow the conversation when you don't).  And everyone, please discuss potentially controversial changes to the article before making them.  --Ed (Edgar181) 20:33, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

text: While I can appreciate the sentiment, you likewise would do well to remember that WP:NPA and WP:CIVIL are not clubs to beat other users with. Make sure you don't descend into harassment in your zeal to defend this article.--Rosicrucian 11:57, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Issues regarding reliable references 

message: Why do ya care about vandals more than actually being constructive and adding new info!...I Placed a section called "New thougths and ideas" a week ago and bearly anybody cares about it! 
Every idea or Opinion should be added here first before actually being added in the article! I'll be much more easy to add it in this section and the vote for concensus!
The problem here is that most of the users argue about Sock puppets and other dumb shit!Be more constructive and add less crap to the talk page!!!(this is one of the longest talk page)EdwinCasadoBaez 03:34, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Why not Worrying more about adding new info?

message: I cleary pointed out the unrelated references with what is being written on the Dominican page,yet, its being rejected.So what's the point in discussing or having a talk page if editing will do nothing to change the statements made by unfactual claims?
Jimmyjones1122 06:39, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Again the edits are reverted back when I laid the facts right on this page 

message: I will be trying to convert any straight links into proper footnotes as I find the time. However, some of the links I'm looking at are a little difficult to read, and at least one is a Google cache. We might need to kill that one, because Google doesn't cache forever. Your thoughts?--Rosicrucian 16:23, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The link in question is this one, which is a cached copy of a University of Maryland article.--Rosicrucian 17:33, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As there is also another source for the Puerto Rican ancestry of Joaquín Balaguer I would suggest to just drop this link and leave it at one source for this fact. VirtualDelight 21:46, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Footnotes 

message: Can I ask what was the point of doing this. AvFnx 04:31, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  2 Re-establishment as a colony 

message: According to the 2005 Annual Report of the United Nations Subcommittee on Human Development in the Dominican Republic, the country is ranked #71 in the world for resource availability, #94 for human development, and #14 in the world for resource mismanagement. These statistics emphasize the national government corruption, the foreign economic interference in the country, and the rift between the rich and poor.
:Is that so? This last sentence bugged me the first time I read it, and it continues to bug me. The statistics are helpful, but these three conclusions need a lot more support, and sound more like theses of research papers rather than encyclopedic content. I would like to see this last sentence cut altogether. If the next person who reads this agrees with me, please cut it.
::These statistics emphasize the national government corruption, the foreign economic interference in the country, and the rift between the rich and poor....I Dont think this Is Accurate and if it is it should be cited. I am A Native born of the Country and i know there is Corruption, Economic Interferences but i dont think that it is all the reason it has. I think there is more in it than that and for now it should be removed...in fact!even in the U.S there is corruption. Corruption is everywhere but is not the entire reason..EdwinCasadoBaez 02:44, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Economy - Fact vs. Opinion 

message: Warning for placing in information that can't be inferred from a cite. . The population statistic is unfounded and based on opinion. . Opinion with unsourced information. . Removing citations . Placing in NPOV wording to fit an agenda  . Please make constructive edits, also please utilize the talk section. 64.131.205.111 03:39, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Warning to User talk:EdwinCasadoBaez 

message: Welcome, and thank you for experimenting with the page :Dominican Republic on Wikipedia.  Your test worked, and it has been reverted or removed. Please take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox.  This is your final warning.  The next time you remove cited material as you did here  you will be blocked.   64.131.205.111 17:03, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Warning User talk:Avfnx 

message: I reverted deletion of comments made be EdwinCasadoBaez on my talk page.  I'd like to show the extreme behavior and irrational thinking that seems to becoming as a result of objective material that is being placed in the article.  From the removal of words like [[mulatto] because it is now considered to be in the same league as negro and oriental, to the use of listings of abuses that occurred and were documented in the dominican republic by [[amnesty international] .  To research from the CCNY Dominican Institute stating that the population is 90% of african ancestry.  I have been met with replies such as "Stop trying to portray the whole of DR as if it were Zambia or Gabon, because it isn't. Is not that it is " bad " to be dark skin African, but that is just the fact." "" Mulatto", wether is considered " offensive" , that is subjective. Stop imposing North American " political correctness". "So stop this " all the America's is Kinta Kunte syndrome". Study some history before."   .  All in all maintaining a constructive and neutral article is what is being attempted. Please remember that this particular version of Wikipedia is the english speaking version that utilizes English customs.  So although negro may be alright in spanish culture it isn't in English culture.  It seems as if several highly patriotic members feel as if many things is an attack on them or their culture, when it's actually being neutal. 64.131.205.111 03:59, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Dominican here. The removal of a source together with removing of vandalism is disruptive editing. If you want to debate a source to so on the talk page. Also this book is in no way "alleged" as it is available at the University of Miami libraries.  VirtualDelight 18:46, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No one is disagreeing if a book exists, but if the source cannot be read by others.  There is a problem with verifiability.   .  We have to be able to easily locate the source as is wiki policy.   It is vandalism when user dominican erases the crime section.  Which exists in other articles including the United States and Russia.  The removal of cited material (every sentence was cited is vandalism.  64.131.205.111 18:55, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You could verify it. You only need to go to the University of Miami libraries. Or, if you can't go, you may request an Inter-Library-Loan through the one of an accredited institution (like CCNY, for example).Dominican 19:12, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

text: The link only shows a book exists. Please provide the exact sentence or a photo of the sentence so that we can view it here. 64.131.205.111 20:02, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is a whole section right above to discuss the inclusion or removal of the crime section. As Dominican states, the source is available. But your mixing up of vandalism reverts and removing of sources indeed is a valid concern shared by multiple editors of this page. If you want to remove a source, to discuss this on the talk page. VirtualDelight 19:18, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

text: who is reverting your edits?64.131.205.111 20:12, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You did here  . VirtualDelight 20:19, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Concensus should be reached by voting in controversial cases. Those voters can be any wikipedian that edits on this article ONLY
*Lets Try to get along and make this a nice discussion team. Forget About the Past, buddies is time to work.
EdwinCasadoBaez 22:14, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  EdwinCasadoBaez 

message: The Dominincan Republic offered the United States to take it over as a colony for 1.5 million dollars but the United States Congress refused.
There more to that, like Santana giving DR to Spain. How Los Trinitario was the only movement really wanting make DR free country while the other movement wanted give to USA,France, Spain etc. I would like to expand that to reflect the history behind it, but my source is Spanish book that i would like help finding a source on the web, cause I haven't really any good one, that explain it. Avfnx 14:01, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: From Wikipedia:Verifiability, the official policy: 
"Because this is the English Wikipedia, for the convenience of our readers, English-language sources should be used in preference to foreign-language sources, assuming the availability of an English-language source of equal quality, so that readers can easily verify that the source material has been used correctly.
Keep in mind that translations are subject to error, whether performed by a Wikipedia editor or a professional, published translator. In principle, readers should have the opportunity to verify for themselves what the original material actually said, that it was published by a credible source, and that it was translated correctly.
Therefore, when the original material is in a language other than English:
* Where sources are directly quoted, published translations are generally preferred over editors performing their own translations directly.
* Where editors use their own English translation of a non-English source as a quote in an article, there should be clear citation of the foreign-language original, so that readers can check what the original source said and the accuracy of the translation."
As a start here a link to a source in English: [Richard A. Haggerty, ed. Dominican Republic: A Country Study. Washington: GPO for the Library of Congress, 1989.] There is a wide consensus on this source to be a reliable source and its in the public domain. VirtualDelight 15:58, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  I like to expand... 

message: This seems to be the most accurate that i've seen to date in terms of who ran the colony. 
Translated from Spanish 64.131.205.111 07:12, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Timeline of leaders and ownership of the Dominican Republic. 

message: Hey...i want to tell that we should try to stop the consistent arguements...We should ignore bad comments from others but at the same time do good!
in the past week we all been kinda of arguing in all of this edits and stuff...We have been arguing for nonsense and we not going anywhere with this..we should to bring him back...IP 64.131.205.111, since you were the one that argued the most with platanogenius please try to help him out!!!!please um-block him!I want him back over here..he has important views that we need in wikipedia
Guys over here, try to help to bring platanogenius back:
*User:EdwinCasadoBaez
*User:Dominican
*User:VirtualDelight
*User:64.131.205.111
We should all try to help out bring platanogenius back..he is a great guy and should be banned over here!we should now be in peace and bring him back because he is a great editor even thougth he did a lot of bad comments over here(i did too)...Does anybody know how to unblock somebody here????EdwinCasadoBaez 23:54, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: User:platanogenius will have to advocate for his own unblocking.  He was banned for repeatedly making personal attacks, and disruptive editing on this, and other, articles - after being previously warned, and blocked, for the same material.  A good way to encourage him to come back would be to post on his talk page, requesting that he cease making personal attacks and being disruptive.  --Haemo 00:15, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

text: On a procedural note User:platanogenius is not banned but blocked for an indefinite time. But I agree with Haemo that he will have to make his own case in  appealing his block. Given his editing history and blocking reason in my view he would have to convince the admin reviewing an unblock request that he understands that he has broken rules, that he wants to abide by the rules and that he would edit for the good of the project in the future. But to do this I think is something only he himself can do. VirtualDelight 09:45, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[User:64.131.205.111]] let me tell you some points here

message: Last time I check this articled included the official World Facts Book information which I believe is updated regularly, while someone (I'm going to presume it's you)bases the percentage of the Dominican population on a CUNY Essay.  And for your info, you sounded a racist yourself by calling me "platanogenious".  And for your information everybody knows that 11% of the population is black (unmixed with eighther white or native american) and everybody knows that the last few indians that remained on the island eventually assimilated into the general population. 
left by 22:37, 31 May 2007 24.199.88.22 (Talk)
Yes!!!we should include information based from the CIA world fact book not from some Stupid(For me is personally) CUNY City College Dominican Institute. CUNY Dominican Institute does research and Surveys while CIA gets more of an accurate information from the Dominican Government. I (Personally) believe we should place the actual figures of CIA and forget the Dominican Institute. Anyways, People will trust more the CIA facts than a small group of Researches like Da Dominican Institute!EdwinCasadoBaez 02:44, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  explain to me like if I were a 4 year old what was it that sounded antihaitian?  

message: Just a few points to try to put everyone on common ground here.
*Nobody should be reverted out of hand. At present, we've got no confirmed socks of anyone, so there's no reason to revert someone as a known vandal just yet unless what they post is actually vandalism. Everything else is just a content dispute, and calling things vandalism when they aren't leads to edit warring. Above all, assume good faith. If I see people reverting non-vandal edits and calling them vandalism, I'm going to start issuing edit war, personal attack, or AGF warnings on talkpages. I hope other users will join me in this, as we really can't operate if this sort of stuff continues.
*Don't bite the newbies. In correlation to my first point, don't assume anyone who starts heavily editing the article is a sock or otherwise somehow wrong. This article attracts a lot of native Dominicans, and a lot of them have pretty strong feelings about the article. They may look like single-purpose accounts at first, but in many cases they're just passionate about their native country.
*More information is more information. We are trying to be as informative as possible here. Take the dispute over the CIA World Factbook statistics for example. We've let ourself get in an edit war for fear of sock puppets, but take a look. The factbook presents more data in a more reliable fashion than the other source. I can name dozens of other articles on many different nations that use it for their demographic links. Generally, this establishes consensus that this is a reliable source, and I don't see how quoting it directly can be considered PoV. If we want this article to reach Good Article or Featured Article status, this is a safe bet. Beyond that, Wikipedia cautions us against ever flat-out reducing the amount of information in an article. Yes, insufficiently sourced claims have to be removed after ample chance has been given to source them, but above all else we want to inform people.
That's what immediately comes to mind as a decent starting point for consensus. What do you guys think?--Rosicrucian 03:28, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Great idea!I been saying this for the Past week!lets see if now it works!EdwinCasadoBaez 03:53, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I saw that, and I'm grateful for your efforts. Sometimes it just takes a fresh topic to re-emphasize this stuff, is all.--Rosicrucian 04:04, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Even with a few setbacks vandalistic sockpuppets were found   and blocked  64.131.205.111 17:37, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Starting some fresh discussion. 

message: The reference states that 90% of dominicans are black and mulattoes. The current statement on the page states only partial information based on the supplied reference.
http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0094-582X(199805)25%3A3%3C126%3ATTOBSI%3E2.0.CO%3B2-W
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Jimmyjones1122 (talk • contribs) 
:I've since redone the sourcing on that and included both the CIA factbook statistics and the CUNY study. Hopefully this is an acceptable compromise.--Rosicrucian 19:55, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edited the demographics section 

message: This talk page is becoming basically unreadable, and simply because people are getting lazy and ignoring guidelines:
*Please use proper net etiquette on this page - this means:
:#Writing in whole, English, sentences.
:#Spelling words correctly, and not using "AOL Speak".
:#User proper grammar, punctuation, and capitalization.
*Please assume good faith about your fellow editors - this means:
:#Listen to their arguments.
:#Do not accuse them of being sockpuppets without strong evidence.
:#Do not revert their edits with good reason.
*Do not be incivil or engage in name-calling or personal attacks
*SIGN YOUR POSTS BY TYPING ~~~~
If we can all follow these, this page will actually be able to get some work done. Haemo 22:06, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please follow Wikipedia guidelines on this page 

message: Reading the latest spate of edits by 146.95.167.95 just made me cringe. Highly slanted, and nearly vandalistic. No real way to support something that PoV. He seems to be doing similar on related articles. Has anyone spoken to him?--Rosicrucian 22:38, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gah... 

message: As a result of this brutality the Dominican Republic was forced to pay Haiti $750,000.00.
that how was put in the article.  The 1937 "incident" was settled through diplomatic channels and the Dominican Republic agreed to pay an indemnity of $750,000. this how was put in the cited source page.
It seem to me someone putting the own option on this. AvFnx 04:54, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: this looks good http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-54454/Dominican-Republic
Let get Haitian page...yea sure that makes neutral. Can I ask you a question, what do you have against DR, and it people. I see you willing go out your way push your own agenda. AvFnx 05:19, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Words 

message: Have you read the Haiti article, you should see how much DR get mention. If you read DR one you think every step taken was as one. But yet when you go to the Haiti article there barley any mention on DR. I don't know why people going out there way give DR a bad image, but hey let the world know no one doing that to Haiti...the story of history, DR never start no war it only defense it self. That what make a Dominican. AvFnx 05:24, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: listen.. the soldiers had choices.. like when trujillo was assasinated.   people can say no.  trujillo didn't kill all these people by himself. he had dominicans help him.  you do know that the DR embassy was in Haiti.  you have nothing against another nation as long as they don't drag the DR name thru the mud.  The united states isn't perfect, but damn it they don't act like they did nothing wrong!  sucio mono...  :64.131.205.111 05:52, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: did you know a embassy represent that nation soil, invading the embassy is basically invading the country...that time we had troops on the border scream what honor to die por la patria, hey no need for name calling...uaaa, give my banana...Listen to your logic, DR is evil, they racist, they treat the Haitian so bad...here one question why do they come to DR, they country poor...boo ho, they did that to them self. It not Dominican problem, when Haiti was on top remember Haiti rob Dominican Republic and left the new nation broke. So why should we really care what happen in Haiti, they didn't care about DR, and they don't. They want the Dominican citizenship only cause the Haiti one is not even worth dirt. Haitian turn they side the island to a desert, is that Dominican fault too. AvFnx 17:26, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

text:  it is juan uribe and he is dominican  64.131.205.111 07:51, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  jose_4.jpg...that what the link says, other thing that guy in the picture is pitching AvFnx 13:24, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Dominicans didn't come up w/ that word, but Latino for some reason then to be only mean spanish speaking country from Latin America...but i also wonder that too. I'm not speaking for all Dominican but my self, i don't deny my African roots. I'm light skin and very proud of my Taino, African roots and of Spanish. And if Dominican really does deny he's roots, he's saying  he not Dominican...where Merengue really base (forget the debate of it Haitian) it really African music. people then to be ignorant that true, but the same goes for African-American, even Haitians, Puerto Ricans. Never really understand it...why you think evolution is a big problem, could be cause it says all Human came from Africa. AvFnx 06:46, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I get you back on that one, have look it up, but that a very good question that i offend wonder too. Don't about the Brazilian but i also like to add that this world is all about money, the more the country has, the more respect it citizen will get. Now we on the subject a lot those human rights vilation happing in DR, happen to Dominicans too(light or dark). Like i said before don't like Trujillo cause that what he left behind, the people that killed him got killed, and the army people that stood up in 1965 got killed too. So Balaguer and Trujillo people still run the show, not direct but the culture they left behind.  AvFnx 07:06, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Well Avfnx..i'm officially saying bye(because i guees am permanently getting banned for not abbyding blocking rules)!And i'll leave you here alone!I guess you can handle things over here!make it a great article atleast by next year!I think am getting banned forever because of some people around here calling me disruptive and personally attacking and sock puppet!So i'll see ya later when everything cools down!(if it ever does)69.119.127.181 07:22, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Why Does the Article Focus so Much

message: I don't believe anyone should be censor especially when make sense. let the people say there two cents. AvFnx 06:25, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dominican-Haitian War 

message: :This discrepency may exist also because of Antihaitianismo or racial bias against those of African decent. 
Doesn't seem to be a discrepancy to me. 11% blacks plus 73% of mixed race is still over 80% of the population who likely have African descent. Seems a bit PoV to say that the CIA factbook figures are off because of racial bias.--Rosicrucian 16:33, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: not really POV. 73% mixed race doesnt even have to be any kind of black in it at all.  it can simply be white and indian, white and arab, white and asian, asian and arab, etc.  there exists many different names to avoid being called black  morena (brown), india (indian), blanca oscura (dark white), trigueño (wheat colored) - to avoid referring to themselves as black.  "There was a sense of 'deculturación' among the African slaves of Hispaniola. [There was] an attempt to erase any vestiges of African culture from the Dominican Republic. We were, in some way, brainwashed and we've become westernized." .  This is all a result of Antihaitianismo 64.131.205.111 16:51, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In this context it is, at least if you're claiming that the CIA factbook figures are somehow inaccurate due to racial bias. That's unsupported.--Rosicrucian 17:45, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

text: The section claiming that Dominicans "consider themselves white" seemed a bit too inflammatory and likely would lead to another edit war. After a struggle with another user nearly blanking the section, I've left it at an earlier version that I hope is less controversial than the one you put in. The goal here is compromise.--Rosicrucian 23:36, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Antihaitianismo? 

message: 69.119.56.116 (blocked 2 days by King_of_Hearts (AO ACB)).)
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrator_intervention_against_vandalism&diff=136712685&oldid=136711144 64.131.205.111 00:38, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another blocked user: 

message: http://www.ecpat.net/eng/ecpat_inter/Publication/Other/English/Pdf_page/ecpat_sex_tourism_dom_rebublic.pdf
It seems pretty interesting.  I'm moving for an inclusion.  Similiar to what Brazil has with social issues http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil#Social_issues   64.131.205.111 20:19, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Added. Look good?--Rosicrucian 23:56, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I did put it in the crime section, and did not give it a subheading.--Rosicrucian 00:22, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A vandal left this article 

message: Great stuff!No more IP Edits over here!Only discussing in talk page is avalable69.119.127.181 07:09, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: No more IP Edits!

message: Hey 64.131, let me ask you something. If DR is so anti-haitian and anti-black or " self-denial", how come the majority of the population voted for José Francisco Peña Gómez(who was of Haitian decent and blacker than petroleum), in 1994??  How come today the airport in Santo Domingo is named after him?  you also have many parks and roads named after him. Many people still worship him like he is a god, even white-looking Dominicans that followed him.
Nice job your doing cherrypicking information and just pointing out negative information. Also, the " racial issues" don't belong in this article, that should be an article just for itself. I don't see in the Haiti Article how Christophe killed all the whites that he invited to re-settle Haiti, and how many Mulattoes were massacred in Haiti, many had to flee to New Orleans. I know it was a matter of " Haitian national security" back then, due to the hostile circumstances that surrounded it. Simply, because that don't belong in the Haiti Article.  And now, you locked the article, in order for you to smear DR. 
Also, when was the last time you picked up a Dominican history textbook that is used in schools(in Spanish language, ofcourse)? This is 2007, not 1957 you know.
The bad part is that this is not helping the situation of Haitians in DR at all. The generalization, stereotype of Dominicans as " Black-denier caricatures" will just cause anger to Dominicans that have sympathy for Haitians. The image of Haiti too abroad, is not getting to get better by this smearing campaign.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.177.181.129 (talk • contribs).
::That very true!!!I think theres no way to argue that against!69.118.48.94 05:08, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  PORTRAYING DOMINICANS AS CARICATURES. 

message: This a first, im Dominican born and I can't find anywhere in my documents where it says my race. What someone put was skin color, that where we use color like trigeno and so. This Anti-Dominican know so much that something i can't find where ceduala or passport  says race. This article everyday turning more and more to pure garbage.  Haitian made article talking about DR, I know there anti-Dominican propagana going only cause Haiti mess up there country and now what turn DR to a desert..like Haiti is (Al Gore documentary for those that wanna know where I got my info from) AvFnx 00:14, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: with a nation that has a large mixed population, sometimes race may be ambiguous.  The Dominican population does have a history of racial issues especially in the light of Antihaitianismo.  The United Nations which supports human rights has had some issues with the lack of human rights that are given to some Haitians by the government of Dominican Republic.  I don't understand why you seem to have such issues with Haiti.  You don't see Puerto Rican's treating Dominican's or even talking about Dominincan's half as bad as you talk about Haitians.   You are on the same island with a porous border.  You are the same people, separated by government, and sometimes language.  The island was ruled 100% for a time by Spain, 100% for a time by France, 100% for a time by the Taino's, 100% of the time by Haiti.  It's like some of the issues you might see within African American culture.  The whole debate about color complex.   It was government propaganda.  It was a method of keeping the poor happy because you were considered to be at least better than the "haitians."  You are proud that you are "lighter or whiter" than the Haitians? Slavery was  You think 95% of haitians are african looking.  Guess again, http://www.haitixchange.com/article_0023.asp!  Haitian's are as light as they come and as dark as they come.  Same thing as in the Dominican Republic.  Jean-Claude Duvalier is as light as your current president fernandez.  http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4253674.stm . Raoul Cédras another leader in Haiti 
would also be considered to be near white in Dominican culture http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/940000/images/_942489_raoul_cedras300elvisap.jpg .   Haitian revolutionary and general André Rigaud was mulatto .  The mulatto's were the one's who liberated Haiti   look up Alexandre Pétion.   General Jean-Pierre Boyer the Haitian President who unified or invaded the colony of Santo Domingo was mulatto as well.   . So it wasn't the "blacks haitians" who invaded Dominican Republic it was the mulatto haitians!  Haiti is as mixed as the Dominican Republic.  The difference is that Haiti recognizes it's culture.  The Dominican Republic is well documented to be in denial of it.  Ideology is what kept many down and continues to keep many people down.  64.131.205.111 08:17, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: First of this article not turning to Puerto Rico article, there not documentary that trying destroy Dominican Republic economy from PR. I don't deny my African roots. I'm more proud of my African roots then Spain roots. How can't you be proud of African roots when African control the world culture. Merengue base African music (controls Dominican Culture) , Hip Pop was started by African decedents. I think your book smart but you buying in to much in to this propaganda. Listen to Rap Local (Mi Cultura) and you see Dominicans are proud there African roots. I got nothing against Haitian people but I'm not going have going let this Dominican defamation go on uncheck. Wouldn't you have a problem someone burning the flag of you country, especially when you Catholic and the flag has the bible, and the cross...and then saying i want your citizenship as they doing do that. Well for one thing Haiti not as mixed as DR, but I do agree with there the White elites like DR (that don't really care about the country), there mulatto, and pure African decedents. Haiti and DR do share lot things in common, but if they would stay one country DR would have been in the same state that Haiti is in. I don't know where Haiti recognizes there culture when they praise there French culture more, and claim that better then Spanish of DR, while been in DR...you book smart, i see things for my own eyes. Back to the real argument DR doesn't  classified it people by race so there goes you argument, and Dominican don't deny there African roots, if it did then Merengue wouldn't exist. Dominicans Don't hate Haitians Dominicans have been rule by Haitian president or voted for one; from past President to Pena Gomez I don't see where the HATE ideology at yes you can bring 100 article but the fact of the matter go to DR and really see what goes on,  go to Dominican Colleges and you see there lots of Haitian in DR, rich one too... if it was like you said they would go else where. AvFnx 10:29, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Keep doing the good work in fighting this antidominicanismo —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.177.181.129 (talk • contribs) 
Puerto Ricans could never talk bad about Dominicans because they used to migrate our island in large quantities in the late 1800's and early 1900's...Infact the only reason we leave to puerto rico is to use it as a bridge to get to the United States..Only like 25% of the ones that reach Puerto Rico actually stay there!69.118.48.94 21:27, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Racial identity issues 

message: Sad sad stuff...For some reason i belive that Ip 64.131.... and User:YoSoyGuapo are the same persons!I'm going to talk to some Admisnistrators to figure out because is weird that they both got the sam tecniques of writing and the same accusations to Dominicans Against Haitians...Guys could ya help me out doing this please????if anybody wants to see!is bugs me that they have the same writing styles!69.118.48.94 05:07, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have any evidence of this?  Furthermore, do you have any evidence of him being disruptive?  --Haemo 05:49, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Simply look the Dominican Article been edit a lot by User:YoSoyGuapo ever since IP block, while used be lot edit by IP 64.131. that my only my thought. calling people monkey in spanish, and other things which i choose not to translated cause there might kids reading this, I don't understand how s/he get aways w/ personal attacks.  AvFnx 10:33, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Avfnx no eso fue porque tu tio te lo dijo oh cuando tu eras mas joven i despues que tu abuelo te toco el pene 64.131.205.111 03:06, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

text: "Avfnx no eso fue porque tu tio te lo dijo oh cuando tu eras mas joven i despues que tu abuelo te toco el pene" in a full literal translation to english this means "avfnx, no that was because your uncle told you that when you were younger...after you grandpa touch your u penis!!!" this is the most literal translation i can write and for me is discrasefull and offensive in anyway!!!he talk about someones family that he doesnt even know and then talks about touching someones penis!!!!Embarrasing and thi should be an immediate block!65.220.104.16 20:31, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: A Case of Sock Puppet i want to ask to other Wikipedians

message: Again i ask for User:YoSoyGuapo to revert his decision of adding Dominicans Don't Play AND Bloods into the Crime Article! The crime that involves Dominicans Don't Play happen outside the country and mostly in the United States and Spain!This means that this crimes dont affect in anyway the safety of any Tourist in the country or of it's citizens because of the fact that this crimes are comitted outside the country!This gangs can contain many nationalities! Just because the Name is Dominicans Dont Play doesnt mean is inter connected to the Country! You should have more concensus when adding Info into subheadings! SAD!
:69.118.48.94 05:47, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Crime Section,Again

message: how is it was Massacre and people want to call it genocide, yea this article is neutral alright  AvFnx 12:04, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Beside your Anti-Dominican page, where have you read genocide...I want read it, and please understand only cause you read something in the Internet don't make it true. AvFnx 03:54, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Parsley Massacre 

message: and from which the name Haiti is derived
what that got do with DR, that sound like a Haiti fact, shouldn't that be in Haiti page.
News of the atrocity filtered out of the country slowly; when it reached the previously supportive administration of President Franklin D. Roosevelt in the United States, Secretary of State Cordell Hull demanded internationally mediated negotiations for a settlement and indemnity. Trujillo finally agreed. The negotiations, however, fixed a ludicrously low indemnity of US$750,000, which was later reduced to US$525,000 by agreement between the two governments. Although the affair damaged Trujillo's international image, it did not result in any direct efforts by the United States or by other countries to force him from power. 
In stark contradiction to his virulent anti-Haitian rhetoric, the Trujillo administration maintained cordial relations with most Haitian governments. The 1937 "incident" was settled through diplomatic channels and the Dominican Republic agreed to pay an indemnity of $750,000.
Where does it say demand or force, my English most be really bad. I can't find it can you? AvFnx 12:27, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  I wanna know 

message: http://www.canalsocial.net/GER/ficha_GER.asp?id=7924&cat=historia
That page was cited, proof what was written, and remove is there a reason for that. I know that is in Spanish but can't we have this till at least get replace, I think having this is better not having nothing. AvFnx 02:52, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dominican-Haitian Wars 

message: where did it go, how can someone remove with out taking in the talk page... AvFnx 04:14, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: umm.. Dr's army was bigger.. your information is faulty.  
State Entry Exit Combat Forces Population Losses 
Haiti 1844   1844     3000      60000       1000 
Rebels 1844 1844       10000    100000      1000 
There is no other information about a War... and i've looked.
64.131.205.111 05:42, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Haiti was a army, Dominicans was a rebel force...and well Dominican had a smaller population (there something wrong w/ that information...DR surpasses Haiti in population in the mid 1970's) , maybe had more people with pride then AvFnx 15:17, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:   Dominican-Haitian Wars Part II 

message: http://workmall.com/wfb2001/dominican_republic/dominican_republic_history_haiti_and_santo_domingo.html  64.131.205.111 06:09, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good Website to look at.  It has some information 

message: The article contains irrelevant and unsourced information that should be removed:
"Other names for Hispaniola are Bohio  and Ayiti ("land of the high mountains" ; and from which the name Haiti is derived"
:Shouldn’t this be in the article about Haiti or Hispaniola?
"which to some have become problematic due to the Dominican Government's treatment of Haitians. Currently there is a bill in the Puerto Rican Senate that wishes to serverly restrict the entrance of Dominicans into Puerto Rico until the situation for Haitians in the Dominican Republic improves greatly"
:The Dominican Government's treatment of Haitians immigrants workers is well known, and well documented in the article. But the part about the Puerto Rican Senate is unsourced and unlikely,since the P.R. Senate can't restrict legal immigration, this is a matter of U.S. Federal Law.
The Part about the DDP gang is just ridiculous. First, it is not a Dominican based gang. Second, how is the "Emigration" section entirely devoted to criminality? also, according to the sources the DDP is a minor street gang in both the U.S. and Spain, and has followed the pattern of many ethnic street gangs in the U.S. It's nothing special, like the Mafia. - Rafelito 07:57, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you actually suggesting the Mafia is NN?--Rosicrucian 16:27, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No. I'm suggesting DDP is NN (at least in the context of this article)--Rafelito 20:34, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

text: DDP is not based in the DR:
"Dominicans Don't Play (DDP) is a New York based street gang comprised of Latino youths whose heritage is traced to the Dominican Republic. They are largely concentrated in the Washington Heights section of Manhattan parts of Queens, The Bronx and Brooklyn . More recently the gang has expanded to New Jersey    , Florida, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Atlanta and Ossining. Law enforcement identifies members through the wearing of black, blue, white and red beads "--Rafelito 01:18, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Well, I don't see Mafia mentioned in the Italy article, or Mara Salvatrucha mentioned in El Salvador, or Latin Kings mentioned in Puerto Rico, etc.--Rafelito 02:50, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Rafelito, If you look at the Sicily article  you will see that there is a prominent mention of Mafia (even a whole section) dedicated to it, MS-13 is mentioned in the [Salvador] article.   So an international gang which was chased and arrested by the  FBI isn't important?   Emmigration section is people who have left the nation and DDP are dominicans who have left the nation and commit crimes. I find that very hard to believe it doesnt belong.. BoriquaStar 08:33, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Mafia originated and operated in Sicily that's why it is mentioned in Sicily not in Italy. The MS-13 reference in El Salvador is about people who have been deported and now live in El Salvador (they speak english which is relevant in the demographics section), it does not elaborate (correctly) on their criminal activities outside of the country. DDP chased and arrested by the FBI? The emigration section as it is constituted right now is about crimes commited outside the dominican jurisdiction by people of dominican ancestry, it should be about emigration patterns like everywhere else.--Rafelito 16:08, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Every article is different.  If you like expand on the other emigration things that are going on.  BoriquaStar 03:32, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Every article is different?. The criteria and most wikipedia guidelines apply to all articles.--Rafelito 15:57, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

text: First of all this is only one source (most sources state DDP originated in NY). Second, it is unreliable because it also states that DDP broke away from the Latin Kings and Netas.--Rafelito 15:57, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Again, it's only one reference and it's flawed (most sources state DDP originated in NY). You will have to provide evidence that they are as notable as the mafia in Sicily. Nobody is disputing the notability of Dominicans Don't Play (it has its own article), what we are disputing is their relevance to this article--Rafelito 15:57, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

text: You keep repeating arguments that already have been refuted and don’t comment on other issues raised . We don’t file an RFC because is not necessary, we have to remove irrelevant and unsourced information.--Rafelito 18:05, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

text: As before they aren't being addressed.  The information is cited and concerns emigrant groups from DR  which makes it relevant.  I've made a compromise to shorten it or simply file an RFC.  Which I think is fair.  BoriquaStar 18:21, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, you keep repeating arguments that already have been refuted and ignore parts of the discussion. First, I have already explined why this  is not a good source (you should take a look at the other sources too). Second, I find your rationale or criteria for relevance very odd, are we going to detail the behavior of every immigrant group of every country or from every country in the articles about their country of origin? The answer is no, that's not how wikipedia works, that's why there are specific articles (like Dominican-American or Dominicans Don't Play) that address specific issues. Again you should address others issues being raised in this discussion. We should read and discuss all the points that have been presented.--Rafelito 20:04, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I dont trust this User:BoriquaStar...He has been in wikipedia for the last 5-7 days and he has only made notable edits in the dominican Republic article or in the dominican republic talkpage(while calling himself BoricuaStar!!!Its very weird!!look at the Contributions he has . A notable amount of edits of IP:64.131... and User:YoSoyGuapo have decreased lately while now User:BoriquaStar jumps in after they leave this article...Is making me see this in a suspicious Sockpuppetry case!In his first week he acussed Avnfx of Vandalism which is not supposed to be done by a new user...He Then Asked for protection of the Dominican Republic Article the same way IP:64.131 did...EdwinCasadoBaez 22:33, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Main article: Dominican illegal immigration to Puerto Rico
How the emigration main article is that, if that was the case then the whole thing should go. I want know what the whole point put the things are that, and when they half true, only one side of the story been play out. DDP was started in NYC, there goes that source. Other thing DDP is a very very small gang, that don't play no role in Dominican life style...or way of life. My question is simple why is this been put...what is the usefulness of this information. AvFnx 07:05, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removing unsourced and irrelevant material 

message: Emigration
::Main article: Dominican illegal immigration to Puerto Rico
How the emigration main article is that, if that was the case then the whole thing should go. I want know what the whole point put the things are that, and when they half true, only one side of the story been play out. DDP was started in NYC, there goes that source. Other thing DDP is a very very small gang, that don't play no role in Dominican life style...or way of life. My question is simple why is this been put...what is the usefulness of this information. AvFnx 07:05, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Back to the point

message: That trying playing as news...seem to one sided to be considered a good source AvFnx 22:57, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why don't you read it in Spanish, anything that are translated then to loss it meaning. What make a good source is a source that comes from plave that can be trusted, other wise it only people thoughts. If you can use any "source" i the internet then how good of a source is that. The internet is full   of people thoughts and nothing wrong with that, but when people take that as facts that whole different issue AvFnx 08:09, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  This not a good source  

message: The article contains irrelevant and unsourced information that should be removed:
"and from which the name Haiti is derived"
Shouldn’t this be in the article about Haiti or Hispaniola? 
Like it stated before but was the was taken to other point, any objection of me deleting this AvFnx 00:30, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not the Ayiti im talking about that Haiti name came from. AvFnx 07:54, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Lets just leave that for the hispanola article.  BoriquaStar 08:24, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removing irrelevant material 

message: Hey people, this 64.131 guy is keeping getting away with murder in this article. Not only here, but he goes to any other article about Dominicans and try to censor there too. Check the Máximo Gómez   article. From the WHOLE article, the part that says that " he combated Soulouque" , was the only one that he placed a " citation needed".  This is a technic that he has in order to censor anything about " Haiti" and " Haitians that he don't like ". ( eg:Haitian Army getting defeated by much smaller Dominican Forces). .   hmm, what a coincidence. He also said that" Gomez was born in Haiti,because what is now DR, was governed by Haiti back then, hahaha"He did the same thing with the Dominican-Haitian Wars section. It just bothers this Haitian that the Haiti's army's was defeated in three wars.  There was a source in that, he deleted it, and got away with it, as usual. Language is always a " loophole" for this "you fill in the blank" character to censoring. Other administrators, please tell us, when this abuse of authority is going to stop?  Now he is denying that there were any other invasions after the 1844. Not even in Haitixchange.com they say such stupidity, that is a reputable website. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.177.181.129 (talk • contribs) 
Hi Guys...Am very happy to be officially Back after being block for some weeks!I am ready to come back to work!!!Hi Avnfx and the other new guys here!!EdwinCasadoBaez 20:50, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Welcome care to help with the San Juan, Puerto Rico article as well? BoriquaStar 04:09, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  TRYING TO CENSOR HISTORY 

message: :::I do not appreciate things being signed for me that I didn't place on a page.  you created spaces which I saw here      and then you said that i signed it     .    User:Avfnx Please do not do this again. BoriquaStar 03:46, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't feel like im getting censor here or that the admis are been unfair...Like i said before it seem like you wrote it. Maybe if don't edit other people comment i wouldn't have thought that. for the 5th or whatever time sorry. You remind me of other user used to be around here....mmmmmmmmm AvFnx 03:55, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

text: He is surely a sockpuppet!!Mr BoriquaStar must be a sock puppet!!!Is not long until he be Blocked again!Finally the Dominican Republic Article is coming to Shape!EdwinCasadoBaez 00:09, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  User:Avfnx 

message: Just to put to rest the continued attempts to paint Juan Pablo Duarte as a racist and La Trinitaria as white nationalists/white seperatists, let me address the source that contains the "proof" of this:
:"Fathers of Racism" Jose-Rivera Molina. Taino Indep. Press. New York. 2006
Let's look at this for a moment. Most editors aren't going to have access to this book. It's by an independent printing company, isn't available on Amazon, and seems to have had a fairly small print run. As a result, it doesn't pass Wikipedia's requirements for what is a verifiable source.
I think we can all agree that this source, or the claims which the editor in question is asserting it proves, have no place in Wikipedia. If we have articles claiming that the Dominican Republic was the true inspiration for Birth of a Nation, we're just veering into conspiracy theory and other dodgy things.--Rosicrucian 00:08, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Remove it.  BoriquaStar 04:21, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  La Trinitaria and Verifiability 

message: http://www.amazon.com/Why-Cocks-Fight-Dominicans-Hispaniola/dp/080903719X BoriquaStar 03:06, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good Sources? 

message: Let make a project like this  so we can write down the do list, have voting and assign task. what one one thinks AvFnx 09:55, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Here a thought.... 

message: We Invite everyone to join the Dominican Republic Wikiproject after months of being inactive. This will be the main portal for Dominican Republic Related articles!Please add your Username in the Participants sub-section of the article!EdwinCasadoBaez 18:51, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Dominican Republic]]

message: #Please Present them in a Delicate Manner and Do Not discuss(argue against) ideas Below this Line
#Remember our goal is to Make Dominican Republic an A Class Article so do not argue and be Constructive
#Please Write any idea for helping the Quality of the Dominican Article. It Can Be New Sections.Expanding a Section.Deleting A Section but do not go against any ideas written Here
#Please sign Comments and thougths with a four tildes and to put multiple : in front of comments so it can show differences between comment
Started By User:EdwinCasadoBaez
===TOPICS===
*Religion:
*Economy:
*Crime:
:Crime section should not be deleted (it exists in other articles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Dominican_Republic#Crime_Section) but the crime page may be expanded.  It is a relavent part of DR.
----
:I removed from the Crime Section a Sentence involving DDP and Trinitarios two gangs based in New York. Even thougth they are true gangs because i seem them fight, they still not significant in the fact that they are not based in the Dominican Republic and for that reason it shouldnt be included in the Dominican Article. Some of the Members of those two NY based gangs are not Even Dominican born or Dominican Descent at all. Even thought the names are to be involved with DR it should not be included at all in this article.What should be included in the Crime in the Dominican Republic article is:
#Crime High Levels after the 2003 collapse of the Dominican Economy(from sources)
#Drug Traficking from Colombia to the United States
#Laws Prohibiting Alcohol sales in DR after Midnight to avoid late-night Crimes(this law those exist)
#Assaults incrementing in some Touristic zones.
:Please Comment in this ideas in the Botton Section!EdwinCasadoBaez 00:22, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have brought this section into chronological order. I cant think of any objections to this. I also have removed claims clearly not covered by the source given. I would like to ask anyone reinstating them to do so only with supporting sources. I would like to state that I also support the sourced changes by Dominican. VirtualDelight 09:45, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I Believe the Dominican Republic article should have a small overview about the Santiago light rail and the Santo Domingo Metro in the Transportation Section!!We should add about the National designated Highway/Freeway lines Named DR-1,DR-2,DR-3,DR-4,and DR-5 that sorround the countryEdwinCasadoBaez 07:42, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I think that's a good idea. A cuisine sub-section is fine by me. Eventually we can expand enough so as to create another article. We can extract ideas from the Cuban cuisine and Puerto Rican cuisine articles and references. Dominican 07:13, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I found a very good reference on the origins of Merengue. I can write a few paragraphs to add to the front page and maybe add a few interesting comments on the actual page. The book I'm talking about is Antes de que te vayas, written by Rafael Chaljub Mejía and it's available online at Grupo León Jimenes webpage here . Dominican 17:47, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: New Ideas and Thougths

message: *Religion:
*Economy:
*Crime:
:Crime section should not be deleted (it exists in other articles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Dominican_Republic#Crime_Section) but the crime page may be expanded.  It is a relavent part of DR.
----
:I removed from the Crime Section a Sentence involving DDP and Trinitarios two gangs based in New York. Even thougth they are true gangs because i seem them fight, they still not significant in the fact that they are not based in the Dominican Republic and for that reason it shouldnt be included in the Dominican Article. Some of the Members of those two NY based gangs are not Even Dominican born or Dominican Descent at all. Even thought the names are to be involved with DR it should not be included at all in this article.What should be included in the Crime in the Dominican Republic article is:
#Crime High Levels after the 2003 collapse of the Dominican Economy(from sources)
#Drug Traficking from Colombia to the United States
#Laws Prohibiting Alcohol sales in DR after Midnight to avoid late-night Crimes(this law those exist)
#Assaults incrementing in some Touristic zones.
:Please Comment in this ideas in the Botton Section!EdwinCasadoBaez 00:22, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have brought this section into chronological order. I cant think of any objections to this. I also have removed claims clearly not covered by the source given. I would like to ask anyone reinstating them to do so only with supporting sources. I would like to state that I also support the sourced changes by Dominican. VirtualDelight 09:45, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I Believe the Dominican Republic article should have a small overview about the Santiago light rail and the Santo Domingo Metro in the Transportation Section!!We should add about the National designated Highway/Freeway lines Named DR-1,DR-2,DR-3,DR-4,and DR-5 that sorround the countryEdwinCasadoBaez 07:42, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I think that's a good idea. A cuisine sub-section is fine by me. Eventually we can expand enough so as to create another article. We can extract ideas from the Cuban cuisine and Puerto Rican cuisine articles and references. Dominican 07:13, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I found a very good reference on the origins of Merengue. I can write a few paragraphs to add to the front page and maybe add a few interesting comments on the actual page. The book I'm talking about is Antes de que te vayas, written by Rafael Chaljub Mejía and it's available online at Grupo León Jimenes webpage here . Dominican 17:47, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: TOPICS

message: To clarify, some items are in the Emigration section rather than the Crime section because they are criminal activities abroad, while the Crime section is for domestic crime.--Rosicrucian 21:07, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, but I find it to be of quite undue wight that this section is nearly entirely about crime by one criminal and a minor street gang. For comparison we could take a look at the article Dominican American. I think this section could be a short overview from this article and the Dominican illegal immigration to Puerto Rico article. VirtualDelight 21:46, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Possibly. Moving them to the Emigration section was largely a compromise since there seemed to be a fair bit of support for inclusion, and they kept getting inserted into the Crime section. Of course, in light of recent sockpuppets, the appearance of consensus for inclusion might have been false.--Rosicrucian 21:49, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It may be even a systemic bias of Wikipedia to focus on such easily accessible and "in the news" information. But as this is the country overview article about the Dominican Republic I doubt that this particular criminal needs to be named in the article. But e.g. I do think that the fact about the Dominican Republic to serve as a transportation hub for cocaine smuggle into the United States is an information important enough to be in the article. VirtualDelight 22:54, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

text: That's exactly what I have been discussing here.BoriquaStar (who has been supporting inclusion of this information and advocating consensus on this issue recently) has been suspended indefinitely for Sock puppetry (Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/64.131.205.111) Apparently other sockpuppets of 64.131.205.111 were doing the same.--Rafelito 02:25, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

text: the emigration section is part of demographics, yet it discusses a crime related matter rather than going through or skimming emigration, whoever wrote this used unfairness in tone, and it is clearly baised. Adreamtonight 08:47, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Emigration vs. Crime sections 

message: I have undone this change to the description of the Parsley massacre in the   subsection 1930 to 1980 by Caonabo because I think this changes were against the sources in the article and against consensus on this talk page. Also the change from "Parsley Massacre" to "Parsley Massacre by Haitiens" and from "massacre" to "welfare"
in one case seem to me to be a POV edit not supported by any of the sources in the article. VirtualDelight 14:51, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. The passage made next to no sense with those edits in place, so I support the revert.--Rosicrucian 14:59, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree and support the revert but that only shows that there extreme point, we need to better observe and be more active on this. The consensus of the past really don't count there were lot of sock poppet  here. But the we got work with what we have and improve it. AvFnx 15:46, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

text: listen.. the soldiers had choices.. like when trujillo was assasinated.   people can say no.  trujillo didn't kill all these people by himself. he had dominicans help him.  you do know that the DR embassy was in Haiti.  you have nothing against another nation as long as they don't drag the DR name thru the mud.  The united states isn't perfect, but damn it they don't act like they did nothing wrong!  sucio mono...  :64.131.205.111 05:52, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: did you know a embassy represent that nation soil, invading the embassy is basically invading the country...that time we had troops on the border scream what honor to die por la patria, hey no need for name calling...uaaa, give my banana...Listen to your logic, DR is evil, they racist, they treat the Haitian so bad...here one question why do they come to DR, they country poor...boo ho, they did that to them self. It not Dominican problem, when Haiti was on top remember Haiti rob Dominican Republic and left the new nation broke. So why should we really care what happen in Haiti, they didn't care about DR, and they don't. They want the Dominican citizenship only cause the Haiti one is not even worth dirt. Haitian turn they side the island to a desert, is that Dominican fault too. AvFnx 17:26, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

text:  it is juan uribe and he is dominican  64.131.205.111 07:51, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  jose_4.jpg...that what the link says, other thing that guy in the picture is pitching AvFnx 13:24, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Dominicans didn't come up w/ that word, but Latino for some reason then to be only mean spanish speaking country from Latin America...but i also wonder that too. I'm not speaking for all Dominican but my self, i don't deny my African roots. I'm light skin and very proud of my Taino, African roots and of Spanish. And if Dominican really does deny he's roots, he's saying  he not Dominican...where Merengue really base (forget the debate of it Haitian) it really African music. people then to be ignorant that true, but the same goes for African-American, even Haitians, Puerto Ricans. Never really understand it...why you think evolution is a big problem, could be cause it says all Human came from Africa. AvFnx 06:46, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I get you back on that one, have look it up, but that a very good question that i offend wonder too. Don't about the Brazilian but i also like to add that this world is all about money, the more the country has, the more respect it citizen will get. Now we on the subject a lot those human rights vilation happing in DR, happen to Dominicans too(light or dark). Like i said before don't like Trujillo cause that what he left behind, the people that killed him got killed, and the army people that stood up in 1965 got killed too. So Balaguer and Trujillo people still run the show, not direct but the culture they left behind.  AvFnx 07:06, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Well Avfnx..i'm officially saying bye(because i guees am permanently getting banned for not abbyding blocking rules)!And i'll leave you here alone!I guess you can handle things over here!make it a great article atleast by next year!I think am getting banned forever because of some people around here calling me disruptive and personally attacking and sock puppet!So i'll see ya later when everything cools down!(if it ever does)69.119.127.181 07:22, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Parsley Massacre

message: I don't believe anyone should be censor especially when make sense. let the people say there two cents. AvFnx 06:25, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dominican-Haitian War 

message: :This discrepency may exist also because of Antihaitianismo or racial bias against those of African decent. 
Doesn't seem to be a discrepancy to me. 11% blacks plus 73% of mixed race is still over 80% of the population who likely have African descent. Seems a bit PoV to say that the CIA factbook figures are off because of racial bias.--Rosicrucian 16:33, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: not really POV. 73% mixed race doesnt even have to be any kind of black in it at all.  it can simply be white and indian, white and arab, white and asian, asian and arab, etc.  there exists many different names to avoid being called black  morena (brown), india (indian), blanca oscura (dark white), trigueño (wheat colored) - to avoid referring to themselves as black.  "There was a sense of 'deculturación' among the African slaves of Hispaniola. [There was] an attempt to erase any vestiges of African culture from the Dominican Republic. We were, in some way, brainwashed and we've become westernized." .  This is all a result of Antihaitianismo 64.131.205.111 16:51, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In this context it is, at least if you're claiming that the CIA factbook figures are somehow inaccurate due to racial bias. That's unsupported.--Rosicrucian 17:45, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

text: The section claiming that Dominicans "consider themselves white" seemed a bit too inflammatory and likely would lead to another edit war. After a struggle with another user nearly blanking the section, I've left it at an earlier version that I hope is less controversial than the one you put in. The goal here is compromise.--Rosicrucian 23:36, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Antihaitianismo? 

message: 69.119.56.116 (blocked 2 days by King_of_Hearts (AO ACB)).)
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrator_intervention_against_vandalism&diff=136712685&oldid=136711144 64.131.205.111 00:38, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another blocked user: 

message: http://www.ecpat.net/eng/ecpat_inter/Publication/Other/English/Pdf_page/ecpat_sex_tourism_dom_rebublic.pdf
It seems pretty interesting.  I'm moving for an inclusion.  Similiar to what Brazil has with social issues http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil#Social_issues   64.131.205.111 20:19, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Added. Look good?--Rosicrucian 23:56, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I did put it in the crime section, and did not give it a subheading.--Rosicrucian 00:22, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A vandal left this article 

message: Great stuff!No more IP Edits over here!Only discussing in talk page is avalable69.119.127.181 07:09, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: No more IP Edits!

message: Hey 64.131, let me ask you something. If DR is so anti-haitian and anti-black or " self-denial", how come the majority of the population voted for José Francisco Peña Gómez(who was of Haitian decent and blacker than petroleum), in 1994??  How come today the airport in Santo Domingo is named after him?  you also have many parks and roads named after him. Many people still worship him like he is a god, even white-looking Dominicans that followed him.
Nice job your doing cherrypicking information and just pointing out negative information. Also, the " racial issues" don't belong in this article, that should be an article just for itself. I don't see in the Haiti Article how Christophe killed all the whites that he invited to re-settle Haiti, and how many Mulattoes were massacred in Haiti, many had to flee to New Orleans. I know it was a matter of " Haitian national security" back then, due to the hostile circumstances that surrounded it. Simply, because that don't belong in the Haiti Article.  And now, you locked the article, in order for you to smear DR. 
Also, when was the last time you picked up a Dominican history textbook that is used in schools(in Spanish language, ofcourse)? This is 2007, not 1957 you know.
The bad part is that this is not helping the situation of Haitians in DR at all. The generalization, stereotype of Dominicans as " Black-denier caricatures" will just cause anger to Dominicans that have sympathy for Haitians. The image of Haiti too abroad, is not getting to get better by this smearing campaign.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.177.181.129 (talk • contribs).
::That very true!!!I think theres no way to argue that against!69.118.48.94 05:08, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  PORTRAYING DOMINICANS AS CARICATURES. 

message: This a first, im Dominican born and I can't find anywhere in my documents where it says my race. What someone put was skin color, that where we use color like trigeno and so. This Anti-Dominican know so much that something i can't find where ceduala or passport  says race. This article everyday turning more and more to pure garbage.  Haitian made article talking about DR, I know there anti-Dominican propagana going only cause Haiti mess up there country and now what turn DR to a desert..like Haiti is (Al Gore documentary for those that wanna know where I got my info from) AvFnx 00:14, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: with a nation that has a large mixed population, sometimes race may be ambiguous.  The Dominican population does have a history of racial issues especially in the light of Antihaitianismo.  The United Nations which supports human rights has had some issues with the lack of human rights that are given to some Haitians by the government of Dominican Republic.  I don't understand why you seem to have such issues with Haiti.  You don't see Puerto Rican's treating Dominican's or even talking about Dominincan's half as bad as you talk about Haitians.   You are on the same island with a porous border.  You are the same people, separated by government, and sometimes language.  The island was ruled 100% for a time by Spain, 100% for a time by France, 100% for a time by the Taino's, 100% of the time by Haiti.  It's like some of the issues you might see within African American culture.  The whole debate about color complex.   It was government propaganda.  It was a method of keeping the poor happy because you were considered to be at least better than the "haitians."  You are proud that you are "lighter or whiter" than the Haitians? Slavery was  You think 95% of haitians are african looking.  Guess again, http://www.haitixchange.com/article_0023.asp!  Haitian's are as light as they come and as dark as they come.  Same thing as in the Dominican Republic.  Jean-Claude Duvalier is as light as your current president fernandez.  http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4253674.stm . Raoul Cédras another leader in Haiti 
would also be considered to be near white in Dominican culture http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/940000/images/_942489_raoul_cedras300elvisap.jpg .   Haitian revolutionary and general André Rigaud was mulatto .  The mulatto's were the one's who liberated Haiti   look up Alexandre Pétion.   General Jean-Pierre Boyer the Haitian President who unified or invaded the colony of Santo Domingo was mulatto as well.   . So it wasn't the "blacks haitians" who invaded Dominican Republic it was the mulatto haitians!  Haiti is as mixed as the Dominican Republic.  The difference is that Haiti recognizes it's culture.  The Dominican Republic is well documented to be in denial of it.  Ideology is what kept many down and continues to keep many people down.  64.131.205.111 08:17, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: First of this article not turning to Puerto Rico article, there not documentary that trying destroy Dominican Republic economy from PR. I don't deny my African roots. I'm more proud of my African roots then Spain roots. How can't you be proud of African roots when African control the world culture. Merengue base African music (controls Dominican Culture) , Hip Pop was started by African decedents. I think your book smart but you buying in to much in to this propaganda. Listen to Rap Local (Mi Cultura) and you see Dominicans are proud there African roots. I got nothing against Haitian people but I'm not going have going let this Dominican defamation go on uncheck. Wouldn't you have a problem someone burning the flag of you country, especially when you Catholic and the flag has the bible, and the cross...and then saying i want your citizenship as they doing do that. Well for one thing Haiti not as mixed as DR, but I do agree with there the White elites like DR (that don't really care about the country), there mulatto, and pure African decedents. Haiti and DR do share lot things in common, but if they would stay one country DR would have been in the same state that Haiti is in. I don't know where Haiti recognizes there culture when they praise there French culture more, and claim that better then Spanish of DR, while been in DR...you book smart, i see things for my own eyes. Back to the real argument DR doesn't  classified it people by race so there goes you argument, and Dominican don't deny there African roots, if it did then Merengue wouldn't exist. Dominicans Don't hate Haitians Dominicans have been rule by Haitian president or voted for one; from past President to Pena Gomez I don't see where the HATE ideology at yes you can bring 100 article but the fact of the matter go to DR and really see what goes on,  go to Dominican Colleges and you see there lots of Haitian in DR, rich one too... if it was like you said they would go else where. AvFnx 10:29, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Keep doing the good work in fighting this antidominicanismo —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.177.181.129 (talk • contribs) 
Puerto Ricans could never talk bad about Dominicans because they used to migrate our island in large quantities in the late 1800's and early 1900's...Infact the only reason we leave to puerto rico is to use it as a bridge to get to the United States..Only like 25% of the ones that reach Puerto Rico actually stay there!69.118.48.94 21:27, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Racial identity issues 

message: Sad sad stuff...For some reason i belive that Ip 64.131.... and User:YoSoyGuapo are the same persons!I'm going to talk to some Admisnistrators to figure out because is weird that they both got the sam tecniques of writing and the same accusations to Dominicans Against Haitians...Guys could ya help me out doing this please????if anybody wants to see!is bugs me that they have the same writing styles!69.118.48.94 05:07, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have any evidence of this?  Furthermore, do you have any evidence of him being disruptive?  --Haemo 05:49, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Simply look the Dominican Article been edit a lot by User:YoSoyGuapo ever since IP block, while used be lot edit by IP 64.131. that my only my thought. calling people monkey in spanish, and other things which i choose not to translated cause there might kids reading this, I don't understand how s/he get aways w/ personal attacks.  AvFnx 10:33, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Avfnx no eso fue porque tu tio te lo dijo oh cuando tu eras mas joven i despues que tu abuelo te toco el pene 64.131.205.111 03:06, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

text: "Avfnx no eso fue porque tu tio te lo dijo oh cuando tu eras mas joven i despues que tu abuelo te toco el pene" in a full literal translation to english this means "avfnx, no that was because your uncle told you that when you were younger...after you grandpa touch your u penis!!!" this is the most literal translation i can write and for me is discrasefull and offensive in anyway!!!he talk about someones family that he doesnt even know and then talks about touching someones penis!!!!Embarrasing and thi should be an immediate block!65.220.104.16 20:31, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: A Case of Sock Puppet i want to ask to other Wikipedians

message: Again i ask for User:YoSoyGuapo to revert his decision of adding Dominicans Don't Play AND Bloods into the Crime Article! The crime that involves Dominicans Don't Play happen outside the country and mostly in the United States and Spain!This means that this crimes dont affect in anyway the safety of any Tourist in the country or of it's citizens because of the fact that this crimes are comitted outside the country!This gangs can contain many nationalities! Just because the Name is Dominicans Dont Play doesnt mean is inter connected to the Country! You should have more concensus when adding Info into subheadings! SAD!
:69.118.48.94 05:47, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Crime Section,Again

message: how is it was Massacre and people want to call it genocide, yea this article is neutral alright  AvFnx 12:04, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Beside your Anti-Dominican page, where have you read genocide...I want read it, and please understand only cause you read something in the Internet don't make it true. AvFnx 03:54, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Parsley Massacre 

message: and from which the name Haiti is derived
what that got do with DR, that sound like a Haiti fact, shouldn't that be in Haiti page.
News of the atrocity filtered out of the country slowly; when it reached the previously supportive administration of President Franklin D. Roosevelt in the United States, Secretary of State Cordell Hull demanded internationally mediated negotiations for a settlement and indemnity. Trujillo finally agreed. The negotiations, however, fixed a ludicrously low indemnity of US$750,000, which was later reduced to US$525,000 by agreement between the two governments. Although the affair damaged Trujillo's international image, it did not result in any direct efforts by the United States or by other countries to force him from power. 
In stark contradiction to his virulent anti-Haitian rhetoric, the Trujillo administration maintained cordial relations with most Haitian governments. The 1937 "incident" was settled through diplomatic channels and the Dominican Republic agreed to pay an indemnity of $750,000.
Where does it say demand or force, my English most be really bad. I can't find it can you? AvFnx 12:27, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  I wanna know 

message: http://www.canalsocial.net/GER/ficha_GER.asp?id=7924&cat=historia
That page was cited, proof what was written, and remove is there a reason for that. I know that is in Spanish but can't we have this till at least get replace, I think having this is better not having nothing. AvFnx 02:52, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dominican-Haitian Wars 

message: where did it go, how can someone remove with out taking in the talk page... AvFnx 04:14, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: umm.. Dr's army was bigger.. your information is faulty.  
State Entry Exit Combat Forces Population Losses 
Haiti 1844   1844     3000      60000       1000 
Rebels 1844 1844       10000    100000      1000 
There is no other information about a War... and i've looked.
64.131.205.111 05:42, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Haiti was a army, Dominicans was a rebel force...and well Dominican had a smaller population (there something wrong w/ that information...DR surpasses Haiti in population in the mid 1970's) , maybe had more people with pride then AvFnx 15:17, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:   Dominican-Haitian Wars Part II 

message: http://workmall.com/wfb2001/dominican_republic/dominican_republic_history_haiti_and_santo_domingo.html  64.131.205.111 06:09, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good Website to look at.  It has some information 

message: The article contains irrelevant and unsourced information that should be removed:
"Other names for Hispaniola are Bohio  and Ayiti ("land of the high mountains" ; and from which the name Haiti is derived"
:Shouldn’t this be in the article about Haiti or Hispaniola?
"which to some have become problematic due to the Dominican Government's treatment of Haitians. Currently there is a bill in the Puerto Rican Senate that wishes to serverly restrict the entrance of Dominicans into Puerto Rico until the situation for Haitians in the Dominican Republic improves greatly"
:The Dominican Government's treatment of Haitians immigrants workers is well known, and well documented in the article. But the part about the Puerto Rican Senate is unsourced and unlikely,since the P.R. Senate can't restrict legal immigration, this is a matter of U.S. Federal Law.
The Part about the DDP gang is just ridiculous. First, it is not a Dominican based gang. Second, how is the "Emigration" section entirely devoted to criminality? also, according to the sources the DDP is a minor street gang in both the U.S. and Spain, and has followed the pattern of many ethnic street gangs in the U.S. It's nothing special, like the Mafia. - Rafelito 07:57, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you actually suggesting the Mafia is NN?--Rosicrucian 16:27, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No. I'm suggesting DDP is NN (at least in the context of this article)--Rafelito 20:34, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

text: DDP is not based in the DR:
"Dominicans Don't Play (DDP) is a New York based street gang comprised of Latino youths whose heritage is traced to the Dominican Republic. They are largely concentrated in the Washington Heights section of Manhattan parts of Queens, The Bronx and Brooklyn . More recently the gang has expanded to New Jersey    , Florida, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Atlanta and Ossining. Law enforcement identifies members through the wearing of black, blue, white and red beads "--Rafelito 01:18, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Well, I don't see Mafia mentioned in the Italy article, or Mara Salvatrucha mentioned in El Salvador, or Latin Kings mentioned in Puerto Rico, etc.--Rafelito 02:50, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Rafelito, If you look at the Sicily article  you will see that there is a prominent mention of Mafia (even a whole section) dedicated to it, MS-13 is mentioned in the [Salvador] article.   So an international gang which was chased and arrested by the  FBI isn't important?   Emmigration section is people who have left the nation and DDP are dominicans who have left the nation and commit crimes. I find that very hard to believe it doesnt belong.. BoriquaStar 08:33, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Mafia originated and operated in Sicily that's why it is mentioned in Sicily not in Italy. The MS-13 reference in El Salvador is about people who have been deported and now live in El Salvador (they speak english which is relevant in the demographics section), it does not elaborate (correctly) on their criminal activities outside of the country. DDP chased and arrested by the FBI? The emigration section as it is constituted right now is about crimes commited outside the dominican jurisdiction by people of dominican ancestry, it should be about emigration patterns like everywhere else.--Rafelito 16:08, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Every article is different.  If you like expand on the other emigration things that are going on.  BoriquaStar 03:32, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Every article is different?. The criteria and most wikipedia guidelines apply to all articles.--Rafelito 15:57, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

text: First of all this is only one source (most sources state DDP originated in NY). Second, it is unreliable because it also states that DDP broke away from the Latin Kings and Netas.--Rafelito 15:57, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Again, it's only one reference and it's flawed (most sources state DDP originated in NY). You will have to provide evidence that they are as notable as the mafia in Sicily. Nobody is disputing the notability of Dominicans Don't Play (it has its own article), what we are disputing is their relevance to this article--Rafelito 15:57, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

text: You keep repeating arguments that already have been refuted and don’t comment on other issues raised . We don’t file an RFC because is not necessary, we have to remove irrelevant and unsourced information.--Rafelito 18:05, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

text: As before they aren't being addressed.  The information is cited and concerns emigrant groups from DR  which makes it relevant.  I've made a compromise to shorten it or simply file an RFC.  Which I think is fair.  BoriquaStar 18:21, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, you keep repeating arguments that already have been refuted and ignore parts of the discussion. First, I have already explined why this  is not a good source (you should take a look at the other sources too). Second, I find your rationale or criteria for relevance very odd, are we going to detail the behavior of every immigrant group of every country or from every country in the articles about their country of origin? The answer is no, that's not how wikipedia works, that's why there are specific articles (like Dominican-American or Dominicans Don't Play) that address specific issues. Again you should address others issues being raised in this discussion. We should read and discuss all the points that have been presented.--Rafelito 20:04, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I dont trust this User:BoriquaStar...He has been in wikipedia for the last 5-7 days and he has only made notable edits in the dominican Republic article or in the dominican republic talkpage(while calling himself BoricuaStar!!!Its very weird!!look at the Contributions he has . A notable amount of edits of IP:64.131... and User:YoSoyGuapo have decreased lately while now User:BoriquaStar jumps in after they leave this article...Is making me see this in a suspicious Sockpuppetry case!In his first week he acussed Avnfx of Vandalism which is not supposed to be done by a new user...He Then Asked for protection of the Dominican Republic Article the same way IP:64.131 did...EdwinCasadoBaez 22:33, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Main article: Dominican illegal immigration to Puerto Rico
How the emigration main article is that, if that was the case then the whole thing should go. I want know what the whole point put the things are that, and when they half true, only one side of the story been play out. DDP was started in NYC, there goes that source. Other thing DDP is a very very small gang, that don't play no role in Dominican life style...or way of life. My question is simple why is this been put...what is the usefulness of this information. AvFnx 07:05, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removing unsourced and irrelevant material 

message: Emigration
::Main article: Dominican illegal immigration to Puerto Rico
How the emigration main article is that, if that was the case then the whole thing should go. I want know what the whole point put the things are that, and when they half true, only one side of the story been play out. DDP was started in NYC, there goes that source. Other thing DDP is a very very small gang, that don't play no role in Dominican life style...or way of life. My question is simple why is this been put...what is the usefulness of this information. AvFnx 07:05, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Back to the point

message: That trying playing as news...seem to one sided to be considered a good source AvFnx 22:57, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why don't you read it in Spanish, anything that are translated then to loss it meaning. What make a good source is a source that comes from plave that can be trusted, other wise it only people thoughts. If you can use any "source" i the internet then how good of a source is that. The internet is full   of people thoughts and nothing wrong with that, but when people take that as facts that whole different issue AvFnx 08:09, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  This not a good source  

message: The article contains irrelevant and unsourced information that should be removed:
"and from which the name Haiti is derived"
Shouldn’t this be in the article about Haiti or Hispaniola? 
Like it stated before but was the was taken to other point, any objection of me deleting this AvFnx 00:30, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not the Ayiti im talking about that Haiti name came from. AvFnx 07:54, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Lets just leave that for the hispanola article.  BoriquaStar 08:24, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removing irrelevant material 

message: Hey people, this 64.131 guy is keeping getting away with murder in this article. Not only here, but he goes to any other article about Dominicans and try to censor there too. Check the Máximo Gómez   article. From the WHOLE article, the part that says that " he combated Soulouque" , was the only one that he placed a " citation needed".  This is a technic that he has in order to censor anything about " Haiti" and " Haitians that he don't like ". ( eg:Haitian Army getting defeated by much smaller Dominican Forces). .   hmm, what a coincidence. He also said that" Gomez was born in Haiti,because what is now DR, was governed by Haiti back then, hahaha"He did the same thing with the Dominican-Haitian Wars section. It just bothers this Haitian that the Haiti's army's was defeated in three wars.  There was a source in that, he deleted it, and got away with it, as usual. Language is always a " loophole" for this "you fill in the blank" character to censoring. Other administrators, please tell us, when this abuse of authority is going to stop?  Now he is denying that there were any other invasions after the 1844. Not even in Haitixchange.com they say such stupidity, that is a reputable website. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.177.181.129 (talk • contribs) 
Hi Guys...Am very happy to be officially Back after being block for some weeks!I am ready to come back to work!!!Hi Avnfx and the other new guys here!!EdwinCasadoBaez 20:50, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Welcome care to help with the San Juan, Puerto Rico article as well? BoriquaStar 04:09, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  TRYING TO CENSOR HISTORY 

message: :::I do not appreciate things being signed for me that I didn't place on a page.  you created spaces which I saw here      and then you said that i signed it     .    User:Avfnx Please do not do this again. BoriquaStar 03:46, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't feel like im getting censor here or that the admis are been unfair...Like i said before it seem like you wrote it. Maybe if don't edit other people comment i wouldn't have thought that. for the 5th or whatever time sorry. You remind me of other user used to be around here....mmmmmmmmm AvFnx 03:55, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

text: He is surely a sockpuppet!!Mr BoriquaStar must be a sock puppet!!!Is not long until he be Blocked again!Finally the Dominican Republic Article is coming to Shape!EdwinCasadoBaez 00:09, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  User:Avfnx 

message: Just to put to rest the continued attempts to paint Juan Pablo Duarte as a racist and La Trinitaria as white nationalists/white seperatists, let me address the source that contains the "proof" of this:
:"Fathers of Racism" Jose-Rivera Molina. Taino Indep. Press. New York. 2006
Let's look at this for a moment. Most editors aren't going to have access to this book. It's by an independent printing company, isn't available on Amazon, and seems to have had a fairly small print run. As a result, it doesn't pass Wikipedia's requirements for what is a verifiable source.
I think we can all agree that this source, or the claims which the editor in question is asserting it proves, have no place in Wikipedia. If we have articles claiming that the Dominican Republic was the true inspiration for Birth of a Nation, we're just veering into conspiracy theory and other dodgy things.--Rosicrucian 00:08, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Remove it.  BoriquaStar 04:21, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  La Trinitaria and Verifiability 

message: http://www.amazon.com/Why-Cocks-Fight-Dominicans-Hispaniola/dp/080903719X BoriquaStar 03:06, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good Sources? 

message: Let make a project like this  so we can write down the do list, have voting and assign task. what one one thinks AvFnx 09:55, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Here a thought.... 

message: We Invite everyone to join the Dominican Republic Wikiproject after months of being inactive. This will be the main portal for Dominican Republic Related articles!Please add your Username in the Participants sub-section of the article!EdwinCasadoBaez 18:51, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Dominican Republic]]

message: #Please Present them in a Delicate Manner and Do Not discuss(argue against) ideas Below this Line
#Remember our goal is to Make Dominican Republic an A Class Article so do not argue and be Constructive
#Please Write any idea for helping the Quality of the Dominican Article. It Can Be New Sections.Expanding a Section.Deleting A Section but do not go against any ideas written Here
#Please sign Comments and thougths with a four tildes and to put multiple : in front of comments so it can show differences between comment
Started By User:EdwinCasadoBaez
===TOPICS===
*Religion:
*Economy:
*Crime:
:Crime section should not be deleted (it exists in other articles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Dominican_Republic#Crime_Section) but the crime page may be expanded.  It is a relavent part of DR.
----
:I removed from the Crime Section a Sentence involving DDP and Trinitarios two gangs based in New York. Even thougth they are true gangs because i seem them fight, they still not significant in the fact that they are not based in the Dominican Republic and for that reason it shouldnt be included in the Dominican Article. Some of the Members of those two NY based gangs are not Even Dominican born or Dominican Descent at all. Even thought the names are to be involved with DR it should not be included at all in this article.What should be included in the Crime in the Dominican Republic article is:
#Crime High Levels after the 2003 collapse of the Dominican Economy(from sources)
#Drug Traficking from Colombia to the United States
#Laws Prohibiting Alcohol sales in DR after Midnight to avoid late-night Crimes(this law those exist)
#Assaults incrementing in some Touristic zones.
:Please Comment in this ideas in the Botton Section!EdwinCasadoBaez 00:22, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have brought this section into chronological order. I cant think of any objections to this. I also have removed claims clearly not covered by the source given. I would like to ask anyone reinstating them to do so only with supporting sources. I would like to state that I also support the sourced changes by Dominican. VirtualDelight 09:45, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I Believe the Dominican Republic article should have a small overview about the Santiago light rail and the Santo Domingo Metro in the Transportation Section!!We should add about the National designated Highway/Freeway lines Named DR-1,DR-2,DR-3,DR-4,and DR-5 that sorround the countryEdwinCasadoBaez 07:42, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I think that's a good idea. A cuisine sub-section is fine by me. Eventually we can expand enough so as to create another article. We can extract ideas from the Cuban cuisine and Puerto Rican cuisine articles and references. Dominican 07:13, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I found a very good reference on the origins of Merengue. I can write a few paragraphs to add to the front page and maybe add a few interesting comments on the actual page. The book I'm talking about is Antes de que te vayas, written by Rafael Chaljub Mejía and it's available online at Grupo León Jimenes webpage here . Dominican 17:47, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: New Ideas and Thougths

message: *Religion:
*Economy:
*Crime:
:Crime section should not be deleted (it exists in other articles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Dominican_Republic#Crime_Section) but the crime page may be expanded.  It is a relavent part of DR.
----
:I removed from the Crime Section a Sentence involving DDP and Trinitarios two gangs based in New York. Even thougth they are true gangs because i seem them fight, they still not significant in the fact that they are not based in the Dominican Republic and for that reason it shouldnt be included in the Dominican Article. Some of the Members of those two NY based gangs are not Even Dominican born or Dominican Descent at all. Even thought the names are to be involved with DR it should not be included at all in this article.What should be included in the Crime in the Dominican Republic article is:
#Crime High Levels after the 2003 collapse of the Dominican Economy(from sources)
#Drug Traficking from Colombia to the United States
#Laws Prohibiting Alcohol sales in DR after Midnight to avoid late-night Crimes(this law those exist)
#Assaults incrementing in some Touristic zones.
:Please Comment in this ideas in the Botton Section!EdwinCasadoBaez 00:22, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have brought this section into chronological order. I cant think of any objections to this. I also have removed claims clearly not covered by the source given. I would like to ask anyone reinstating them to do so only with supporting sources. I would like to state that I also support the sourced changes by Dominican. VirtualDelight 09:45, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I Believe the Dominican Republic article should have a small overview about the Santiago light rail and the Santo Domingo Metro in the Transportation Section!!We should add about the National designated Highway/Freeway lines Named DR-1,DR-2,DR-3,DR-4,and DR-5 that sorround the countryEdwinCasadoBaez 07:42, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I think that's a good idea. A cuisine sub-section is fine by me. Eventually we can expand enough so as to create another article. We can extract ideas from the Cuban cuisine and Puerto Rican cuisine articles and references. Dominican 07:13, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I found a very good reference on the origins of Merengue. I can write a few paragraphs to add to the front page and maybe add a few interesting comments on the actual page. The book I'm talking about is Antes de que te vayas, written by Rafael Chaljub Mejía and it's available online at Grupo León Jimenes webpage here . Dominican 17:47, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: TOPICS

message: To clarify, some items are in the Emigration section rather than the Crime section because they are criminal activities abroad, while the Crime section is for domestic crime.--Rosicrucian 21:07, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, but I find it to be of quite undue wight that this section is nearly entirely about crime by one criminal and a minor street gang. For comparison we could take a look at the article Dominican American. I think this section could be a short overview from this article and the Dominican illegal immigration to Puerto Rico article. VirtualDelight 21:46, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Possibly. Moving them to the Emigration section was largely a compromise since there seemed to be a fair bit of support for inclusion, and they kept getting inserted into the Crime section. Of course, in light of recent sockpuppets, the appearance of consensus for inclusion might have been false.--Rosicrucian 21:49, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It may be even a systemic bias of Wikipedia to focus on such easily accessible and "in the news" information. But as this is the country overview article about the Dominican Republic I doubt that this particular criminal needs to be named in the article. But e.g. I do think that the fact about the Dominican Republic to serve as a transportation hub for cocaine smuggle into the United States is an information important enough to be in the article. VirtualDelight 22:54, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

text: That's exactly what I have been discussing here.BoriquaStar (who has been supporting inclusion of this information and advocating consensus on this issue recently) has been suspended indefinitely for Sock puppetry (Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/64.131.205.111) Apparently other sockpuppets of 64.131.205.111 were doing the same.--Rafelito 02:25, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

text: the emigration section is part of demographics, yet it discusses a crime related matter rather than going through or skimming emigration, whoever wrote this used unfairness in tone, and it is clearly baised. Adreamtonight 08:47, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Emigration vs. Crime sections 

message: I have undone this change to the description of the Parsley massacre in the   subsection 1930 to 1980 by Caonabo because I think this changes were against the sources in the article and against consensus on this talk page. Also the change from "Parsley Massacre" to "Parsley Massacre by Haitiens" and from "massacre" to "welfare"
in one case seem to me to be a POV edit not supported by any of the sources in the article. VirtualDelight 14:51, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. The passage made next to no sense with those edits in place, so I support the revert.--Rosicrucian 14:59, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree and support the revert but that only shows that there extreme point, we need to better observe and be more active on this. The consensus of the past really don't count there were lot of sock poppet  here. But the we got work with what we have and improve it. AvFnx 15:46, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Parsley Massacre