Talk:2004 Madrid train bombings/Archive 4

message: Hope this do not bother anyone, but I have reformatted all the references/footnotes following the current wikipedia standards. Plainly stylistic issue. Also I have added some new or complementary references, and some missing ones. I will try to search my files to add more of the missing ones.
Junjan 15:47, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: References

message: While rechecking the new footnotes I realized that the user "75.0.96.134" had deleted the full section of "responsability". Can anybody check the IP of this guy and ban him/her?
Junjan 19:30, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism

message: Randroide, the new section you introduced yesterday on the 13th bomb was inserted without any prior discussion or agreement. Thats what I am referring to - please remove it.
The change you reverted yesterday was a revertion back to a change that was equally never discussed or agreed and you still do not answer my questions about it. I have questioned the reasons for it's existence in a sanitized article, and thats why I removed it.
Randroide 08:56, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Undiscussed Non-Consensus Changes 

message: The article presents the disputed current spanish government explanation as an undisputed fact. That is a violation of the NPOV.
For instance: A total of thirteen improvised explosive devices were reported to have been placed on the trains
User:Southofwatford deletes any reference I make to the fact that the genuineness of the 13th bomb (the bomb that leaded to the "islamist" trail) has been seriously disputed in major spanish media.Randroide 12:10, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Neutral Point of View (NPOV) is a fundamental Wikipedia principle which states that all articles must be written from a neutral point of view, that is, they must represent all significant views fairly and without bias. (bold added by me)
News published in a newspaper and reported in radio are "significant" by definition. Your deletion of that information is blanking and a villation of NPOV rules. If you want to locate "controversies" in a different article due to a page size problem, that´s fine, but in that case ALL controversial issues should be deleted from the main article. 13 bombs being present in the trains is a controversial issue. And so it is the "islamist" autorship.Randroide 16:42, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reasons for the "Total dispute" tag 

message: Randroide 17:42, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Think about your "priorities" before blanking sourced information, Southofwatford 

message: The new section is:
1. Relevant, due to the fact that it is about the key exhibit that leaded to the alleged perpetrators of the bombing.
2. Sourced.
3. NPOV, due to the fact that includes data from the newspaper that says that it´s genuineness is questionable and from the newspaper that says that the chain of custody is unbroken.
Any improvements, Southofwatford?. Any problem?. Please, be explicit in your answer. I hope I must not remind you about a Wikipedia policy about not avoiding questions.
NEW SECTION TEXT corrected according to suggestions made by SouthofwatforD:
::The 13th bomb: The clues in the 13th bomb allowed the police to arrest the first allegued perpetrators on Saturday, 13 March, when three Moroccans  (Jamal Zougam, Mohamed Chaoui and Mohamed Bekkaliand) and two Indian citizens were arrested . 
::The 13th bomb has been called "the bomb that dismounted the PP version about ETA"  
::The 13th bomb is also known in spanish sources as "Mochila de Vallecas" (Backpack from Vallecas), due to the fact that its discovery was announced in the Vallecas Police Station in the morning of march 12th.
::The 13th bomb validity as an exhibit is disputed. The next topics are under discussion:
::*Wether the bomb was really in the trains. In the morning of the bombings, the trains were double checked by the EOD policemen to be sure that no unexploded devices were there. The 13th bomb was not found then. The only EOD policeman that had memories of handling a heavy (the 13th bomb weighed around 24 pounds) bag in that morning in El Pozo station asserted positively that the heavy bag he handled in the train station was not the bag of the 13th bomb.   
::*Wether that exhibit has a chain of custody. 
::::**A spanish police report concluded that the bomb could be manipulated by unidentified persons in Ifema ("pudo ser manipulada por personas no identificadas en el Ifema"). Ifema is the Madrid exhibition center where objects found in the trains were temporarily stored. 
::::**DNA from a unidentified male was found in the bag.
::On the other hand, spanish policemen asserted that the chain of custody is unbroken 
, and PP leader, Mariano Rajoy, asserted in march 2006 that he had no doubts about this exhibit .
Other issues, Southofwatford:
1. I write about the issues I choose. My choices are not your business, so, please, stop talking about if I write about such or such issue.
2. I had no obligation to insert the "El Pais" rebuttals. I made it as a sign of good faith.
3. If you want to stonewall my contributions (I hope that´s not the case, but that is what it seems), you picked the wrong user and the wrong article: You are only going to delay a pair of weeks the introduction of new data into the article, but new relevant, sourced and NPOV data will be added. Be sure about this.
4. If you have no time to discuss or to improve the proposed text, the text will be inserted as it is. Any new blanking will be treated and punished as pure vandalism. I hope we will not reach that situation.
Randroide 14:18, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed new section, '''including improvements suggested by Southofwatford''' 

message: Southofwatford 07:59, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Response On The Proposed New Section