Talk:Tribe

message: Church considers a "tribe" to be a higher-level grouping of people than "clan" -- the church defines "clan" as a group of related families.
Groups on a higher level than "tribe" could be "race" or "nation" (it depends).
I haven't the slightest idea if the church usage is common or ideosyncratic.
--Ed Poor
The article should just admit it is giving anthropology's technical definition of tribe.  It is a minor subset of Merriam-Webster's definition in US English and the OED's definition in proper English.  
It is akin to giving electrical engineering's definition of current and purporting that to be the actual definition in English.  
2604:3D09:A57B:9870:C550:BE5:2934:91E7 (talk) 10:57, 23 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Comment

message: Other than being "smaller" (or bigger) is a clan substantially different from a tribe? Pizza Puzzle
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After reading this article I have very little idea what a "tribe" actually is. Can we have articles begin with actually telling the reader what the heck they're all about before jumping headlong into some obscure controversy? Graft 20:33 17 Jun 2003 (UTC)
:Well, you tell me.  I tried to add some more specific content in the first paragraph -- but it is hard to tell a reader what a tribe is "about" given that many people argue they don't really exist (I mean, sociologically -- not legally), and there is no real consensus on how to define or describe them. Slrubenstein
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:especially corporate descent groups
What?  What does this mean?
Daelin
::Clans and lineages. Slrubenstein
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I believe this is more or less the standard anthropological meaning of tribe: A tribe is a small society, bound by kin relations, with its own customs, culture, etc.  What distinguishes a tribe from a clan is that tribes see themselves as being a totally separate people from other tribes.  Clans are large kin groups that are distinct in some way, but are still part of a larger society.  Tribes, however, make up an entire society. this of course involves lots of grey area: what is a separate society, what is not a separate society.  But that, I believe, is the difference between the terms Clan and Tribe.
Then another concept is "band," as in band society.  A band is  considered to be a separate society even smaller than a tribe, and with even less formal structure.  But a band is still bound by kin relations, like a tribe or a clan.
Fishal 20:58, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Definition?

message: Please, can we start one? I'm not all that familiar with them so I'm interested in perusing the various Wiki entries about them.
:Iriqouis
:Sioux
:Aztec
:African tribes
:Viking clans/tribes etc.
I suggest the format go: Tribe name, location, timeperiod/notes. Or is there already one there? I'm also going to create a redirect from Tribes > the vid game, to Tribes > this article. As I am sure the definition of "tribes" meaning multiple of the literal term will surely outlast the influence of "Tribes" the game --Duemellon 13:18, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it is better to have regional lists like List of Australian Aboriginal tribes (see also discussion on the word tribe there). With regional lists, one can also be politically correct by using the terms that are accepted there, eg nations, peoples, clans or languages (which are sometimes used interchangably with tribe). "List of African Tribes" would be rather meaningless for several reasons - eg. there is no concensus to what constitues a tribe, is Acholi a tribe, a people (living in Acholi), an ethnic group, a language, a district or a nation? Which is most appropriate? All or none of the above depending on who you are asking. Considerable effort has been made on Wikipedia to avoid usage of "tribe" because it is ambiguous and sometimes percieved as derogatory. In the case of Africa, using ethnolinguistic and demographic divisions (like :Category:Languages of Africa and :Category:Demographics by country) is more useful.--Ezeu 14:49, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: List of tribes

message: :The reason it needs to be moved is it's current categorical listing is UNDER Native Americans. Not under Native Africans, Native Indain, Native Nordic, etc. So it should be moved. Am I barking up the wrong tree here? What do those category things at the bottom mean? The word "tribe" is not so tightly bound to Native Americans that it's exclusive to them. --Duemellon 12:10, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: yah, that was the clarification I needed (posed by the "Am I barking up the wrong tree here? What do those categories mean"). I've seen at the bottom where the listing showed meant: "category > subcat > etc." but this meant it was in both. Makes sense now. --Duemellon 14:29, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move from Native American to...? 

message: After whatching the IMAX movie about the Amazon river called Amazon, and botanist medicines that can be discovered there. They say that not all tribes have been discovered, I would beg to differ, anyone have any thoughts on this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.20.125.100 (talk) 05:12, 23 January 2006  
*If they're not discovered, you wouldn't know about it, would you? :-) Arre 11:13, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Have all the tribes in existence been discovered? 

message: Please do not delete an accurate sentence.  The citation is not necessary in the first paragraph, which introduces the article as a whole.  The body of the article provides an example and citation for this point. Slrubenstein   |  Talk 13:36, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Accuracy is not the only metric by which to judge a modification. Your edit related to an assertion made two sentences before it, and was grammatically incorrect (a simple typo, I imagine, in the use of "by"). I've cleaned it up so that it's actually readable and tried to make references to "some people" (which is almost always incorrect for a reference work) more specific. -Harmil 15:50, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  tribes and states 

message: The varied usage of the term "Tribe" deserves special mention, I think. 
Jewish references to the Twelve Tribes of Israel as people belonging to specific lineages differ in concept to the Rastafarian Twelve Tribes of Israel (see Mansions of Rastafari). 
Colonial English?
References to the "tribesmen" of "African tribes" (no different to "members" of "ethnic groups", which seems to be the more accepted terminology today) are not complemented by an equal number of references to "tribesmen" of "European tribes". We've all heard the term Maasai tribesman, but who has ever heard of a Spanish tribesman?
Some people take offense to the use of the word "tribe" in that context, and feel uncomforable with the connotations of derived terms such as "tribal warfare" (no different to "ethnic clashes" ) and "tribalism" (often used in place of the more appropriate term, "Sectarianism"). The discomfort comes from claims that such terms are used in certain contexts to implicitly suggest they are purely African phenomena. Clearly, ethnic groups across the entire world experience the same things that are made to sound unique to "African tribes". 
In relation to the unfavourable connotations, the word "primitive" is sometimes used to describe "tribes" that are often simply misunderstood by those who label them "primitive" - a subjective term (those "tribesmen" who are labelled "primitive" may also view their labellers as "primitive").
The use of the word "tribe" in Survivor (the TV Series) re-inforces certain mythical ideas about "tribes". For example, the idea that a "tribe" ought to be a "primitive", "rugged" or "backward" people -  living in an area generally unknown to Western society, or under conditions that would be considered harsh or unfavourable by most members of Western society - such as the various locations where the different series were screened. Specific, sometimes strict or distinct rules losely governing the group's way of life, disturbing rituals and a "survival of the fittest" culture, identity tokens, meagre existence and the threat of extinction all seem to be infused in the common usage of the term. These things are all subjective, and therefore apply to most societies - if judged by people of a different culture who are prone to superiority complexes.
Questions such as "have all tribes been discovered?" smack of the condescending and disrespectful attitudes sometimes innocently hidden behind the term's usage. Much like the "discoveries" made by Christopher Columbus.
Not all people carry this baggage. Interestingly, the word "tribe" remains in common use in several parts of english-speaking Africa, with questions like "What tribe do you come from?" not being uncommon.
I agree with Ezeu. The word should be avoided... or better yet, replaced with more politically correct terminology. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 137.158.128.106 (talk • contribs) 19:40, 26 May 2006 UTC.
:Please avoid excessive spacing between paragraphs.  Also, please indent your comments accordingly.  Now, to the business at hand - I think Fried's critique anticipates most of these points - should that section of the article be developed?  Does someone want to go back to the Fried book and see what more belongs in this article?  Second, the specific comments on Survivor - I agree.  I wish we could include this in the article.  We cannot, however, without violating NOR policy.  But does anyone know of any scholarly articles analyzing this pehnomenon?  If so, we can add it, with proper citation. Slrubenstein   |  Talk 11:03, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Usage of the term varies, sometimes unfairly? 

message: I propose a move to be able to make clear that a tribe is just a ethnic group with special charisteristics. Also required to make distinction clear between indiginous and tribal group
:Tribes are noit ethnic groups, anthropologists and historians use these terms differently.  The merger is a bad idea.  According to Sahlins a many others, including virtually all archeologists, a tribe is a polity witha flexible social organization.  Ethnic groups take shape within states, often as a result of migration, sometimes because of post-colonial polcy. Slrubenstein   |  Talk 14:50, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move 

message: I just deleted the sections listing tribes for two reasons.  First, in almost all cases, the "tribes" listed were not tribes.  Second, given the controversial ways the word tribe has been used, I would want to see verifiable and reliable sources that a tribe is a tribe.  In some cases this is easy and we might be able to list them; in many cases it is actually quite hard and given the controversy, I do not see the value.  If we did not apply this standard and just listed as a tribe anything anyone has aver called a tribe, the list would be thousands - do we realy have space for that? Slrubenstein   |  Talk 21:42, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  recent deletion 

message: Before quoting a "reliable source", Wikipedia would do well to have those who are actually familiar with the subject at hand writing the article.
According to Wikipedia:
"The term's ultimate etymology is uncertain, perhaps from the PIE roots *tri- "three" and *bhew- "to be"."
But this is without foundation. First of all, the verb in Latin for "to be" is "esse", and there is no Latin conjugation of that verb that resembles the so-called "Proto-Indo-European root" *bhew.
http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~econrad/lang/lvesse.html  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.68.95.65 (talk) 18:56, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Who are you talking to?  Wikipedia is not a person.  Wikipedia is the encyclopedia anyone can edit at anytime.  So some people add things that are erroneous - and others take them out or correct them.  Wikipedia is you!  I am not sure what etymology of "tribe" you think is correct but if you think you know a better one - go ahead and change the article! Slrubenstein   |  Talk 18:18, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The etymology rejected by the anonymous user is actually cited and should take precedence to an anonymous user's baseless speculation. The fact that Umbrian has trifu is a fact that the anonymous user has not even bothered to take into account. It may seem absurd to the layman that clan should ultimately be from Latin planta, but that's exactly the accepted etymology. What seems obvious to the layman is often wrong, and the correct solution appears often strange to the layman. That's why we have trained historical linguists and experts on various language groups whose judgment is far more important than that of the credulous, and sometimes incredulous, laymen. Just because you happen to speak a language, or have studied it at school, does not make you an expert on it. The experts are there to weed out spurious etymologies from plausible ones. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 20:34, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Faulty etymology for the word 'tribe' 

message: The Teutic root *bhew becomes Italic root *fu, that of verb "to become", extended to senses of "to beget" and "to produce", an independent verb in Aryan languages, and in Greek (phuein), but merged with ES- root ("to be") in the other West Teutic languages. 
So Latin FVI (I have been), FVERAM (I had been), FVERO (I will have been), FVISSEM (subjunctive past tense), FVERIM (subjunctive perfect tense), FVTVRVS (he who will be). 
English be, been; Anglo-Saxon beon (to be), beom (am), bist (art); German bin (ancient bim, am), bist (art), ancient birum, birut (modern sind, seid, we, ye/are).
Slavic root BUD- for future tense of verb BYŤ (to be), likewise present tense of Persian budan (to become, albeit the verb "to be" has the same infinitive budan). Lithuanian root BU- for imperfect tenses and modes (only present tense belongs to root ES-) of verb BŪTI (to be), and Celtic roots for different tenses and modes of Irish bí (BI), and Welsh bod (BU, BY), to be.--Manfariel (talk) 17:37, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not faulty etymologie 

message: Tribal society links to Tribe, but is nearly completely unexplained here. It should have an own article instead. -- Tomdo08 (talk) 15:30, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Elman Service wrote a gret book on tribal social organization (called Primitive Social Organization) and I think Marshall Sahlins wrote a book called Tribesmen for the foundations of modern anthropology series.  These two would provide probably all the informaion you would need - I agree it could be its own article if you have enough information.  I think these two books (I do not have them) would give it. Slrubenstein   |  Talk 19:52, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tribal society 

message: This article does say not much about the genesis of tribes, there forms etc. What it says is rather fragmentary. See also section Tribal society. -- Tomdo08 (talk) 17:00, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point .... I think Earle and Johnson have a book from an archaeologists' perspective that might address this. Slrubenstein   |  Talk 19:53, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Incomplete 

message: The "Evolution" section was tagged  with "for = transforming a dispute to an encyclopaedic description". That's not a legitimate ask on a copy edit. You have to decide what the article should say; copy editors help with how to say it. Also, as the article is currently marked as "incomplete", it would be better to complete it first and then get it copy edited. There's little point fiddling with the grammar and wording of something that is going to change anyway. You'd be very welcome to seek a copy edit after these issues are dealt with, if you like. --Stfg (talk) 22:06, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: GOCEreviewed

message: City-states existed at the time of the tribes. Why tribes may not be the state? Why tribes can not be a form of government?
Please provide source to articles on:
1. Some theorists hold that tribes represent a stage in social evolution intermediate between bands and states
2. Other theorists argue that tribes developed after, and must be understood in terms of their relationship to, states.
thank. --Alfashturm (talk) 01:31, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  City-states City-tribes 

message: <The Latin word as used in the Bible translates as Greek phyle "race, tribe, clan" and ultimately the Hebrew or "sceptre".> In that way, the latter part is senseless; I deem there lacks the Hebrew word for "sceptre", שַׁרבִּיט (sharvit).--Manfariel (talk) 17:37, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  lost word? 

message: http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/tribe --Espoo (talk) 11:21, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  good source 

message: On 4th of February 2018, 76.70.49.168 added the line “naturism is rarely practiced as much as believed.” directly attached to the last paragraph of the article, giving as an explanation “just added a bit about the lack of nudity”.
I think this line should be removed, but I’m not sure if it would be right to remove it myself without first consulting other people (I’m not very used to Wikipedia).
This line is odd:
* naturism is a modern political and social movement;
* I’m not even sure if people believe that nudity among tribal people is more prevalent than really is or rather that it’s not as prevalent as it really is;
* seems more likely to me that nudity is correlative with climate and ease of making clothes rather than state organization anyway.
It would make more sense if the claim was supported by the work of an anthropologist on conceptions of nudity among tribal people or something.
EDIT: Not getting replies, I removed the line.
Danquebec (talk) 22:50, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Naturism? 

message: I wonder if any of you can deduce the layers of a tribe
Go back in time, way back, before metal, before wheel, before stone
Naked and vulnerable, we need each other, hey lets go tribe!
Do you see?
Evolution is genetic
We live in tribe
How would that organize?
A tribe, an animal, a plant, must have offspring
A plant has root, trunk, leaves and seeds
So must tribe
Do you see?
A tribe forms circlesOutside layer fence
Inside layer nursery 
146.199.68.34 (talk) 00:01, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Historical reduction 

message: Please 223.196.169.5 (talk) 14:25, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  About tribal life style