Talk:Samson Raphael Hirsch

message: Can someone offer sources about RSH opposition to Zionism? Was there really an organized Zionist movement for him to oppose during his lifetime?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dc3736 (talk • contribs) 13:42, 17 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opposition to Zionism 

message: RK's edits are on the whole well taken, but here are some points:
* Moravia had no organised reform community when Hirsch was Chief Rabbi there.
* The Bürger- and Realshule were two different schools, the latter for the community children, and the former mainly for Eastern-European refugees.
* The Kaplan reference was removed. This has 100% to do with Rabbi Soloveitchik and very little with Hirsch per se. JFW | T@lk 11:21, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: My edits of 8/8/2004

message: The article states "While being a yeshiva student in Eastern Europe, Rabbi Shimon Schwab obtained the views of various poskim (authorities in Jewish law) on the required level of secular knowledge (Levi 1990). On this basis, many Ultra-Orthodox adherents of Hirsch's philosophy have preferred the natural sciences over the humanities as a subject of secular study."
:From personal conversations with a small number of right-wing Orthodox rabbis (maybe Haredi, maybe right Modern Orthodox) it seems to me that there is an additional, significant reason that many Orthodox (of all forms) study natural sciences: theological. The study of natural science is the study of God's handiwork; the study of physics is the study of laws created by God. Thus one can come to the same position as Hirsch (these secular subjects can and should be studied) for perhaps a different reason. (Then again, maybe Hirsch felt the same way about science. I do not know.) If you find rabbis of importance who have written on this topic, this subject may find itself into some article. RK
::Rabbi Dr. Eliezer Berkovits, in Knowledge of the World, Knowledge of G-d (in Essential Essays on Judaism, Shalem Press, ed. Hazony), points out (following Rambam, Kuzari, and Hovot haLevavot), that the epistemological path is well paved for us to see secular learning as another of the truths which G-d has planted in this world; no real great effort is required to utilize this perspective nowadays. It has been said that Rabbi Hirsch's Torah im Derech Eretz is really just a recreation of what was true in Muslim Spain. 
::Berkovits (ibid.) also points out, likely from the influence of his teacher (R' Akiva Glasner)'s father (R' Moshe Shmuel Glasner), who in turn followed the Hatam Sofer (from whom Glasner was descended), that at least in Eretz Yisrael, it is untenable to claim that Jewry can survive without technical knowledge and ability; G-d commanded us to have a state, and concomitantly this demands the requisite knowledge and technical skill. Cf. the elder Glasner's haTzionut b'Ohr haEmuna/Zionism in the Light of Faith.
::As for Rabbi Hirsch's perspective on this matter, Rabbi Natan Slifkin quotes Rabbi Hirsch (at http://www.torah.org/features/secondlook/sciencewars.html) as saying,"Judaism is most anxious to make its adherents aware that all the phenomena of nature are subject to certain unchanging laws. Since Judaism itself is a system of laws through and through, it attaches a profound ethical value to the study of the natural sciences. Judaism considers it vitally important for its adherents to become aware that their entire universe is governed by well-defined laws, that every creature on earth becomes what it is only within the framework of fixed laws, and that every force in nature can operate only within specified limits. Not by his whims of the moment but only by his own detailed knowledge of, and regard for, these laws can man make nature serve his purposes. Man himself, then, can exercise power only if he, in turn, obeys the laws set down for him and for his world. In like vein, Rabbi Dr. Yehuda (Leo) Levi says (at http://www.hra.jct.ac.il/judaica/dvarTorah/dt11.html; Levi is not quoting Hirsch, but he is known to be a staunch Hirschian),The fulfillment of the Torah demands a world and rules that control it. To convince ourselves of the need for these laws, we need only try to imagine a world operating in an arbitrary fashion, without rules. Imagine if, when you sow seeds, you would have no idea whether wheat or weeds will come up. Or whether a particular effort will cause your hand to go up or down. Clearly, in such circumstances you would have no control, either of the world around you or of your own actions. You would feel like a puppet; your life would be totally passive. The laws of nature, then, are a condition for the commandments of the Torah to be operational. If God wants us to keep His commandments, He must give us the necessary tools, including reliable laws of nature. This may have been one of the prophet's meanings when he said in God's name: "If not for My covenant, day and night, I would not have established the laws of heaven and Earth." Sevendust62 (talk) 15:37, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Theological reason for science study

message: Do you think that the article is ready to become a FA? Tomer T 20:18, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Never noticed this post until now. I think the article needs much more work to become FA. JFW | T@lk 10:19, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Featured article? 

message: No mention at all in the article of his marriage/wife. 69.118.3.165 (talk) 03:51, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Her name is mentioned in the infobox; little is mentioned about her background in Klugman's biography. Her maiden name was Juedel and IIRC she was from Braunschweig. JFW | T@lk 10:34, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mrs. SR Hirsch 

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