Talk:Dominic Behan

message: Why is it that the Irish have the terrible habit of referring to the island of Britain as 'England'. I have had to change two such references in this article. Dominic Behan, who was as much a Scottish nationalist as an Irish one, would have been affronted by these references. He did not emigrate to 'England', but to Scotland. Of all peoples on this earth, the Irish should be able to show more respect and sensitivity.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.193.240.11 (talk) 02:10, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  'England' 

message: Please restore  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.115.197.245 (talk) 17:48, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  A robot erased my addition of details about Dylan and Behan. But they were not spam 

message: Article needed on various members of Behan family to give the correct number and order of siblings.   I believe Kathleen Kearney had two children before she married Stephen Behan - Sean and Rory.  Then with Stephen came Brendan, Brian, Dominic and the only girl, Carmel.  Needs to be consistency between articles. Coolavokig (talk) 20:46, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Behan Family 

message: I have greatly shortened the discussion of the alleged plagiarism by Bob Dylan, in order to remove language that was either not neutral ("he slandered and libeled Bob Dylan") or unnecessarily explanatory ("Whilst it was (and is) common for songwriters to adapt other writers' work..."). The only essential element in the discussion is the fact that Behan accused Dylan of plagiarism. 850 C (talk) 01:12, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plagiarism 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Please would someone who knows a little more about it than I do write a page for Liverpool Lou.  There are too many uncertainties in what I know, which is:
* It was copyrighted by Dominic Behan in 1964 [Mentioned on several 'pedia pages, along with a statement that it is credited on later copies of The Scaffold's [hereafter Scaff's] single, which I have verified by looking at a record (Warner Bros K16400) currently for sale on eBay (no doubt the link will disappear, but there will be others .]
* Mike McGear was the stage name of Mike McCartney, Paul McCartney's brother and the principal musician in Scaff, but I'll call him McG here, and call Paul McC, to save confusion.] McC's & McG's mum sang Liverpool Lou [hereafter LL] to her children (and several folk groups sang it) before Scaff's single. [the former is mentioned on this page, ie Dominic Behan, but I have no ref].  But here's a problem: Dominic Behan recorded it in 1964, while Mary McCartney, Paul and Mike's mum, died in 1956.  And "everyone" thinks LL has been around for "centuries".  Was Behan's composition perhaps built on some generally similar "traditional" work, rather like Rod Stewart's Maggie May, based on an older eponymous song or Billy Connelly's comedy Welly Boot Song based on the slightly more serious The work of the weavers, which includes such period (almost pre-Luddite) ideas as "Weaving is a trade that never can fail".  But in this case, the tune and lyrics are practically identical between DB's version and the "traditional" one McC remembered his mum singing a decade earlier.  It seems Behan may have  done little more than "arrange" it.
* McC (and many of us) therefore assumed LL was "traditional" [the former is mentioned on this page, but I have no ref]
* According to this page, McC therefore initially listed himself as composer on Scaff's hit -- this seems odd -- IIRC at least one Beatles' song is credited to traditional rather than L&McC, so why would he not do so here?  Once Behan contacted him & McC explained the confusion, B was given credit. [no reference, except that credit was given, see above]
* According to McGear (McG's 2nd solo album), McG recorded a single on 26 Apr 1973 with Wings, at McC's suggestion "to resurrect McG's career" after he left a supergroup which included Scaff. That led to a whole album which they recorded 9 months later in Jan/Feb 1974. That page doesn't mention Liverpool Lou since it was neither the initial single nor on the album. [The page gives several non-internet refs I haven't checked.]
* According to The Scaffold, the split happened at "the end" of 1973 and thus 7-8 months after the single was recorded and immediately before the McGear solo album [No reference.]  At least one page must be wrong.  What follows seems to work best if the McGear page is right and that portion of the Scaff page is therefore wrong. [No reference.]
* On the Scaff page, it states that LL was recorded during the 1974 McGear sessions with Wings.  That fits the date of release, and seems more plausible if the split had occurred nearly a year earlier and any animosity had cooled.  Certainly, the vinyl disc does say "Produced by Paul McCartney  Coda Music Ltd" (see link above).  While it is not definitive, that is fairly persuasive that it was part of the same sessions. [Not a definitive ref, but I suspect there's one out there.]
* The Scaff page confirms that LL peaked at 7 in the UK Singles chart. In more detail, it first charted on 01 Jun 74, climbing to 7 on 22 Jun 74, then subsiding and dropping out after 27 Jul 74.  [Ref [Official Singles Charts https://www.officialcharts.com/charts/singles-chart/19740616/7501/]
* A few decades ago, probably around 1990, and maybe on UK Channel 4,  I vaguely remember a TV film, report or documentary which dealt, inter alia, with Lennon's life shortly before his assassination. I definitely remember a scene where he was singing LL to his son Sean, but I haven't managed to find any reference to the film online.  Unfortunately, other than that, and a shot of the exterior of his apartment block in NY (where he was assassinated) I don't recall what else the film covered. [No reference]
* The BBC has a radio programme Desert Island Disks where a celebrity is asked, if they were "cast away on a desert island" with 8 records (and a book and a luxury), what records would they choose and why.  Yoko Ono was interviewed on 10 June 2007.  One of her records was LL, chosen because '...one day John, in England, sang LL and said "I'n' that beautiful!"  And you know, when Sean was born, he would just sing this song until Sean goes [sic] to sleep, almost every night.' The earliest that JL could have sung it to YO would have been 1967, so it's not clear whether he was recalling a version from his childhood, or the Behan version, or one of the covers  which had appeared by then. [Ref https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b007nc7n starts at 11:53; the Dominic Behan recording (from 1964) is played.]
* LL was recorded by Delaney Bramlett in [reading between the lines] 1964 or 65, but only released in 1971 as a track on Delaney and Bonnie: Genesis, see Delaney_Bramlett#Delaney_&_Bonnie & Delaney_&_Bonnie#Chart_performance [note at end].  My provisional dating is because D&B started recording in 1967, the album is said to have been recorded in 1964/5 & 67, and the track is one of nine that are Delaney solos, while there are 3 tracks which are D&B duos. That info may or may not be published somewhere. [Partial ref: https://www.discogs.com/release/4236709-Delaney-Bonnie-Genesis]
* YouTube replies to a search for Liverpool Lou with literally hundreds of hits (excuse pun) including scores (ditto) of unique performances, many of which are commercially available, and about none of which I know anything! [No other refs]
Many thanks to anyone who takes this up, particularly if they can add anything of the song's pre-Behan history -- Mary McCartney must have heard it somewhere before 1956, and IIRC, so did I in the late '50s, even down in London. Enginear (talk) 08:41, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''Liverpool Lou''