Talk:Li Ching-Yuen/Li Qingyuan

message: is this true. where is the evidence!!
if he spoke at chinesse uni at the age of 200 in the 30's, can you please show me a picture, audio or video of the event please
: No , because as the article says hes almost certainly a marketing myth. Lumos3 19:02, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  okay, so where's the proof that it isn't true? Show me the money! Family Guy Guy 03:53, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

message: "Due to the extraordinary nutritive qualities(several times the next closest food) of the Goji berries on which Li Qing sustained himself, his claim is quite possible."
This seems like an extraordinary leap, especially considering the rest of the article.
pdw
I could see him and his son living that long: 125 + 125 = 250.
Did he eat anything other than goji berries?
Family Guy Guy 00:42, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "quite possible"? 

message: One way to find out his true age would be to use carbon dating on a sample of his remains. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.192.137.58 (talk • contribs) 18:40, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Carbon dating technique

message: You may have fair doubts about his real age, but there are references enough about him to put him out from the "Category:Chinese folklore".
--Braxilian 02:38, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Category:Chinese folklore? 

message: I believe that the tone of this article is not quite as formal/professional as it should be. I have attempted to alleviate this somewhat, but I think that somebody with better copyediting skills needs to work on it.
--Dylan anglada (talk) 21:11, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tone 

message: There seems to be a fairly obvious inconsistency here. Time Magazine and the New York Times state that he claimed to have been born in 1736, but the article says 1677. Is there any explanation for this? I feel like maybe it should be mentioned in the article.
--Nick Kalivoda 01:49, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inconsistency? 

message: "Jeanne Rose, author of the pop herb book of the 1970's, Herbs & Things (written when she was bed-ridden for several months with not much else to do after a car accident) listed fo-ti-tieng in the book. Under that heading, she told the story of Li Chung Yun (his actual name was Li Ch'ing Yuen; see Figure 2.), a Chinese herbalist who lived to the age of 256 years (he is the one in the newspaper article), presumably because he drank a daily tea made from, as she describes it, "an herb called Fo-Ti-Tieng." Thus, the sales pitch for a newly devised, caffeine-containing herb mixture becomes a part of modern herbal lore: the strange formulation invented just a couple of years earlier is ignored, and a new herb is invented. In the story of Li Ch'ing Yuen related by Da Liu (17), his longevity is attributed, primarily, to consuming lycium fruits and, especially, to practicing certain exercises of a type similar to Tai Ch'i Ch'uan. "
One might ask if his longevity was related to his lucky multiple marriage to so many wives, 25 wives means every 10 years he got a new wife. if one is to spread out the terms and not poligamy.   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.192.137.58 (talk) 18:40, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question about use of fo-ti-tieng herb 

message: Have done some googling on this and the story is that he received commemoration of his 150 and 200th birthdays by the Qing administrations of the time. In short, it is more credible that this individual did in fact have by far the longest known lifetime than that there would be no ability to verify that he was at least older than Jeanne Calment at death. The story has him as a mature adult with some public standing (as a stratgic advisor) in a central province of China from the late 18th century until 1933 and the statement that the recordkeeping in China was simply too primitive to verify/refute the essential fact (that he was in fact the longest lived person known) is just not credible without some explanation. Lycurgus (talk) 11:51, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sentence I fact tagged 

message: Why does it say he died 1933, when it also says he died one year after the photo was taken - in 1927? Wouldn't that mean he died 1928? Where did the other years go?
This article is messed up.
Swiiman (talk)
Yes its a mess Togo (talk) 06:21, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Date of death 

message: Where does that guy come from in the middle of the article without any initial explaination?
Togo (talk) 06:21, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Hayate Staso

message: I've noticed most of the in-article references to the herbs Ching-Yuen consumed to stay healthy have been removed. I can't find an entry in the History section. Was that done for a reason? Because I've found the science behind each herb contributes to the veracity of this article.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by SuperAnth (talk • contribs) 00:16, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Missing References to Longevity Herbs

message: It's really a fascinating story but I highly doubt that any serious biologist or physician could agree that is possible for a human being to reach such long ages, like 197 or 256. The most likely and the existence of this person is totally proved is that he really had a very long life span, probably circa 120-140 years old, and popular lore created the legend that he had lived much more then any other known human being. It would be interesting to find out where he was buried, so perhaps an autopsy could determinate the aproximate age he lived.85.240.23.77 (talk) 01:13, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting analysis. If we could find a published work that can be used as a reliable source for this, such as the legend part, it could be included. --Τασουλα  (Almira) (talk) 20:38, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  He looks really young in the photo. How could he possible have lived two centuries? It just doesn't make sense. 209.86.226.27 (talk) 01:36, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  It would be interesting to find any scientific RS which argues over the possibility of someone living that longer.82.154.84.108 (talk) 03:09, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Place of Burial 

message: Interestingly, given the nature of the claims, the paucity of evidence and the range of belief and skepticism encountered here and elsewhere regarding the credibility of this tale, it seems lacking to me that this page has not assembled a section summarizing the case for and against, and referencing any researchers who've perhaps done work in the area.
It most certainly does seem like folklore, but today it would indeed be possible to radio carbon date the tooth enamel to establish a sensible estimate of birth date. One is left to wonder who is sufficiently interested in proving or disproving the legend to fund and organize such a venture if indeed it is even reliably possible to find the remains of this man.
It seems to me that some paperwork that is cited, suffers the self same confidence issues a exhuming of the body would, how can we be sure they are talking about the same guy even, let alone are accurate. No cultural disrespect intended but the Chinese are not real big on unique names, and nor are they free of either corruption, mistakes or a wanton desire to believe folklore and myth. All of which undermines the credibility of a couple of historic documents to some degree I would think.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.29.242.124 (talk) 05:34, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Credibility 

message: I found people citing this article as a evidence that they ought not vaccinate their children. This is harmful, and I'm gonna go ahead and move the burden of evidence because exceptional claims require exceptional evidence.
The sourcing for this article, with one exception, depends exclusively upon second to third-hand reference to two AP dispatches, one from 1928, and one from 1933. Neither constitutes any evidence for the claim of this individual's longevity, as the only thing reported by them is that the claim was made. Most sources listed for this article contradict one another with regards to the age of the subject.
The exception to this rule is the Yang Sen book, "A Factual Account of the 250 Year-Old Good-Luck Man". Unfortunately, the only place I can turn up any suggestion that this book exists is in the source list for this article. This clearly is not a high quality source, as would be required to support an exceptional claim.
In addition to this, we have reputable, peer reviewed research clearly indicating that the rates of age claims being false rises to 100% once the claimed age passes 120. The same source notes that the claimed age of Li Ching-Yun is a multiple of eight, a lucky number in Chinese mythology, making the claim even more likely to have been fabricated. http://www.hindawi.com/journals/cggr/2010/423087/
I'm going to see if I can make a couple edits in light of this.
Note: Ha, I just noticed that this article says the Yang Sen book claims that Li was also 7 feet tall. It's remarkable this isn't noted anywhere else, as his home province is statistically the shortest in China, with an average height of over a foot and a half shorter than Li's proposed height. That's the kind of thing that, you know, would stand out. It's also the kind of thing you make up about someone when you're telling a folk tale. We can firmly say that this "Factual" source is anything but.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.234.124.203 (talk) 19:50, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Regarding the last comment, Yang Sen certainly didn't write that Li was seven feet tall.  He obviously wrote that he was some number of units tall, with such units being known in that region at that time.  This could easily be a translation inaccuracy.  Also, even if the conversion is dead accurate, it could be metaphorical.  The Chinese language is known for using fixed numbers to represent something else, or some unimaginable number.  For example, in Taoist writings, "the 10,000 things" means everything.  Yang Sen could have just meant that Li was unusually tall, which would then have no reflection on the truth of the story.  It's hard to tell from the photo, but he doesn't appear that small.  And if they are all pretty small in that region, then he could have been a giant at 5'8".  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.183.123.29 (talk) 21:17, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, but.  How about we talk about the obviously fictional part.  This article is 100% unadulterated fabrication (well, his death is probably accurate) and I find it hilarious that it is presented so relatively matter-of-factly here. 209.155.40.214 (talk) 23:38, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

text: "The Chinese language is known for using fixed numbers to represent something else"  Therefore being 197 or 256 years old could represent being between 90 and 113 years old.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.45.221.70 (talk) 11:20, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Obviously fictional 

message: Just wanted to point out that External Link #1 (A Story of Master Li, http://www.chinahand.com/qigong/a_story_of.htm) is missing.  I attempted to search the main site, and no results for Master Li came up. This is my first edit to any Wikipedia and I am unsure of what the protocol is.  I'll let more experienced users decide how to handle it. 24.105.183.2 (talk) 20:44, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Broken Link: Citation 

message: Old age has often been celebrated in China and it was a plus to be old, but unlike 141 years old Tang Yunshan 汤云山 who was awarded imperial poetry, Li Ching-Yuen only became famous from 1933. When his only photo and his story was told to then president Chiang Kai-shek by his General Yang Sen. When Yang Sen was instructed to bring Li Ching-Yuen to be introduced to the western media, Li conveniently died in his hometown. From there he suddenly become an overnight legend that everyone knew a long time about, and the western media reported the story according. No westerner ever met Li, his whole existence is based on hearsay and one photo of unverified origin.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.159.154.30 (talk) 13:59, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bogus 

message: I removed the birthdate and age at death from the infobox. Adding such highly controversial and disputed claims to the infobox to be presented as if they are simple unequivocal facts is extremely misleading. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 07:55, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox 

message: If I were one of the "lucky" guys having seen "master" li-ching yuen in person with such long nails in those old days, I would think that he was a charlatan actually, trying to fool -by his long nails- other people that he was 256 years old. Logos (talk) 18:42, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nails 

message: isn't he a little bit small? 91 cm seems to be very tiny, specially when in the main article mention 7 feet tall.
McCuack70 (talk) 17:33, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: He's said to be 7 feet tall, but it seems like the conversion in centimeters is based on US foot unit. It should be viewed as Chinese feet, which (there are 4 of them !) extends from 319.5 to 338.3 mm. So Li Ching-Yuen's reported height would be between 223 and 237 cm. Lesviolonsdautomne (talk) 02:57, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Size 

message: In Qijiang County, Sichuan province, in the year 1678 Li Qingyun was born. By age thirteen he had embarked upon a life of gathering herbs in the mountains with three elders. At age fifty-one, he served as a tactical and topography advisor in the army of General Yu Zhongqi.
When seventy-eight he retired from his military career after fighting in a battle at Golden River, and returned to a life of gathering herbs on Snow Mountain in Sichuan province. Due to his military service in the army of General Yu Zhongqi, the imperial government sent a document congratulating Li on his one-hundredth year of life, as was subsequently done on his 150th and 200th birthdays.
In 1928, Dean Wu Chung-chien of the Department of Education at Minkuo University discovered the imperial documents showing these birthday wishes to Li Qingyun. His discovery was first reported in the two leading Chinese newspapers of that period, North China Daily News and Shanghai Declaration News, and then one year later in 1929 by The New York Times and Time magazine. Both of these Western publications also reported the death of Li Qingyun in May 1933.
In 1908 Li Qingyun and his disciple Yang Hexuan published a book, The Secrets of Li Qingyun’s Immortality.
In 1920, General Xiong Yanghe interviewed Li (both men were from the village of Chenjiachang of Wan County in Sichuan province), publishing an article about it in the Nanjing University paper that same year. 
In 1926, Wu Peifu (the famous Chinese warlord who dominated Beijing from 1917 to 1924), invited Li to Beijing. This visit coincides with Li teaching at the Beijing University Meditation Society at the invitation of the famous meditation master and author Yin Shi Zi.
Then in 1927, General Yang Sen invited Li to Wanxian, where the first known photographs of Li were taken. Word spread throughout China of Li Qingyun, and Yang Sen’s commander, General Chiang Kaishek, requested Li to visit Nanjing. However, when Yang Sen’s envoys arrived at Li’s hometown of Chenjiachang, they were told by Li’s wife and disciples that he had passed away in nature, offering no more information. So, his actual date of death and location has never been verified.
PDGoat (talk) 01:50, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — JJMC89 (T·C) 04:33, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  You forgot to set "answered" to "yes". Omni Flames (talk) 23:06, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:   I did set it. PDGoat reactivated it after refactoring the request. — JJMC89 (T·C) 03:36, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, right. Sorry, my bad. Omni Flames (talk) 06:38, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 24 June 2016 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I have noticed that there is a consistent series of edit wars going on in this article, mainly based on editing the age of Li Ching-Yuen to either be confirmed or to be older than anyone ever claimed. I believe it would be an adequate decision to protect this article due to this.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Laganrat (talk • contribs) 15:53, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protect article? 

message: the article contradicts itself, in the beginning it's written that he died in 1969 and then that he died in 1933 176.230.132.42 (talk) 08:48, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: died in 1969 or 1933

message: The bit about “Devi ram Parashar” does not seem relevant. AbeBehr (talk) 21:34, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Irrelevant caption