Talk:Aguirre, the Wrath of God

message: Herzog made the acknowledgement that the story is fictional on his audio commentary for the Region 1 DVD. 209.149.235.241 23:32, 24 Jan 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 
The result of the debate was move. —Nightstallion (?) 10:35, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fictional 

message: The Pizarro in the film is Gonzalo not Francisco. I have amended accordingly. SCRA5071 00:17, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Francisco/Gonzalo Pizarro 

message: Regarding this entry: 
"Additionally, there are a number of persons and situations which may have been inspired by Gaspar de Carvajal's account of an earlier Amazonian expedition"
I am intrigued to know more about the above article edit, sources, speculations, trivia, etc. The subject fascinates me.--Rule 303 16:15, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gaspar de Carvajal's account 

message: I didn't explain my change in the summary, so I'll explain it here.  The cited list seems to be in alphabetical order, not in terms of 'the best', 'the second best', etc.  I felt this merited the change "number one" to "in the top ten".
Ok, I'll accept that. I kept reverting until someone gave an explanation, heh. James 21:41, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ebert Top 10 Ranking 

message: In first section:
"Although based loosely on what is known of the historical figure of Aguirre, the film's story line is, as Herzog acknowledged years after the film's release, a work of imagination, notwithstanding the fact that several of the film's lead characters." 
Not sure what this actually means - the part after the last comment seems incomplete.
:Removed it. Muad 08:54, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confusing Text 

message: I've been unable to locate a reliable source indicating the film's similarities to Conrad's novella.  All I've found are forum and blog references, nothing from a notable critic or reference work. The wikipedia article on the novella makes the same claim, but w/out a sourced reference.  While I can see the similarities, without a citation, the claim reads like Original Research.  If anybody can provide a good source it would be appreciated.-Hal Raglan 16:11, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Heart of Darkness]]

message: We should use the German poster at the top (since it is the original) and the U.S. one down below, no? gren グレン 02:02, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Makes sense to me.  Done!-Hal Raglan 05:00, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Film poster 

message: I also think we need a better explanation of the dubbing of German (over English?).  1) the source has no page number given. 2) has this been checked by someone?  It seems rather odd to me, but it could be the case. gren グレン 02:04, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I will provide more detailed info taken from David Overbey's article in the referenced Movies of the Seventies, but I'm not sure if the end result will satisfy your need for a "better explanation".  1) The page number from the referenced book is 162. 2) Not sure what you mean by "has this been checked by anyone". If you watch both the English and German language versions of the film on the Anchor Bay DVD, its quite clear that the actor's lip movements are in sync with the English language track, while they are most definitely not so with the German language version.    However, quite a few other sources do mention that the film was shot in English, and if you think more citations should be included in the article to substantiate the information, let me know and I'll see what I can come up with.-Hal Raglan 04:20, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, so far, I've been unable to come up with an additional reliable source that indicates the film was indeed shot in English. Some review websites do mention the fact but I'd rather find something from a more notable source.  I'll take another listen to the Aguirre DVD audio commentary and see if Herzog talks about it or not.  If I can't find anything, I may remove the paragraph from the article until I can locate something more substantial than a brief mention in a 20 year old book.-Hal Raglan 05:33, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A citation is always good... the main reason I brought it up was that I wasn't sure if an anon had added it as a joke or something... since it seemed a little outlandish to me.  I've never been good at judging lip movements, but some of the English ones seemed off to me.  Is it possible that some actors spoke in English while others didn't?  I just watched part in English and it feels unnatural.  I suppose maybe that's because I became used to the German.  So, no hurry besides what you'd give to any fact needing referencing.  I've added the page number, so it is referenced.  I also changed the style and put a small explanation in the reference so as not to mislead people that it is more well known in English.  Feel free to fix it up if you don't like how I did it. gren グレン 09:02, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dubbed 

message: Aguirre was a real historical person but I am sure that the river he sailed was the Orinico not the Amazon so I have changed this.  SmokeyTheCat  •TALK• 14:58, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Which river? 

message: I couldn't resist reviewing this. I have a hard time picking a favourite Herzog but this one's right up there. Anyway, I've held it. I'm going to list the trivial things I could fix myself not out of laziness but, y'know, it's good get minutia down too.
* The images need sources, that being the copyright holder and/or the URL of the site they came from.
* The latter two, especially the 2nd poster, need stronger rationales. We just need to know the specifics of the significance, per this guy's help thing (not the first one but the last two.)
**I have added details as to where/how the images were obtained, plus copyright info that I am aware of. I've also added more fair use rationale to all three images.-Hal Raglan 01:31, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, I appreciate the kind words.  Its a great film and deserves a thorough wikipedia entry.  Another editor nominated this for Good Article status, and I think with some of the changes you recommend it should definitely get there with no problem.-Hal Raglan 13:31, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No problem. Regarding the IMDb comment, I should have clarified further. I meant in the infobox, I assumed that last reference after the budget was meant to cover the entire infobox. I see it's just meant for the budget. There's a better reference (currently 9a) in the 2nd paragraph of the Production section. In regards to the language category, no, you're right. Thinking about it again, it should go by the original country. So, of the things I haven't crossed out, the lead, Kinski additions and legacy are the only key issues. The others aren't pass-fail considerations in my mind. Keep up the good work. Doctor Sunshine talk 14:18, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

text:  Thanks! I did a search myself but was able to locate only the German Films website.  You obviously are a much greater search engine master than I am.  W/the addition of the references you provided I think it can be safely said that the film indeed received the noted awards.-Hal Raglan 19:03, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA held 

message: This may be useful: FilmReference.com.  Also, if you haven't already, I would seek out academic studies of the film at Google Scholar. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 15:46, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you need help retrieving these academic studies, I can either explain to you how to access the full content or provide it myself.  I've done so for Schindler's List, Memento, Fight Club, etc. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 15:59, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: That was fast. Great work. Erik brings up a good point though. A themes section is entirely appropriate for this film. However, I'm passing it as it's most definitely a good article. And it's well on it's way to FA status. I'd recommend adding the themes section, then taking it to a peer review just to be we've not missed anything else. Kudos. Doctor Sunshine talk 20:53, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Erik provided me with six very useful scholarly articles that will assist in the development of "Historical Accuracy" and "Themes" sections.  These will take some time/work and I'll get to it eventually.  I'll definitely hold off on a peer review request until the sections have been added.  Thanks for your terrific suggestions/assistance.-Hal Raglan 22:09, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA passed 

message: I always thought that Nastassja Kinski played opposite her father Klaus Kinski in Aguirre as his daughter. But this and other sources identify the actress as Cecilia Rivera - who seems to have acted in nothing else except a very obscure tv show. But is it possible that Cecilia Rivera was a pseudonym for Nastassja, who would have been 10 years old during filming? She looks just like Nastassja Kinski as a child. Some websites do identify the actress as Nastassja Kinski. Very confusing. 24.233.254.29 (talk) 23:25, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Its entirely possible that the experience of filming in deep Amazon rainforest, on a miniscule budget, on a raft with those two famously uncompromising mental cases (Herzog and Kinski) put Sig. Rivera off acting for good. FWIW Natassja's d.o.b. has been subject to some speculation because of her relationship with one Roman Polanski. Plutonium27 (talk) 20:57, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nastassja Kinski? 

message: The Language of the movie is written as "Language	English (dubbed: German)[1]" I think its the other way round, original language was german. see imdb: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068182/
Subversiv-action (talk) 11:32, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: No, as explained in the article, the cast spoke their lines in English.  The German language version was in fact dubbed. Hal Raglan (talk) 16:12, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Language - Failure 

message: I made three changes to the plot synopsis:
1. Aguirre, unsure of the loyalty of soldiers, sarcastically suggests the fat, lazy Don Fernando de Guzman (Peter Berling) as the leader of the expedition.
I changed his to: >>To ensure the persistence of the third leader of the troop and Aguirre's accomplice in the mutiny, the fat, lazy Don Fernando de Guzman (Peter Berling), Aguirre coerces the soldiers to "elect" him the new leader of the expedition.<<
This is, as I strongly believe, the actual reason why Aguirre suggests Guzman as new (puppet) leader.
2. Some days later, Guzman is found dead near the outhouse. Taking advantage of Guzman's death etc.
I changed this to: >>Guzman goes too far in his inaptness when he dines on the low food supplies while the men are starving, and has the expedition's only horse pushed off the raft because it annoys him. Soon after, he is found strangled near the outhouse (Aguirre is implied to be the murderer). After Guzman's death<< etc.
Guzman is indeed murdered; a noose around his neck is visible when he is found dead (it is easy to miss). It is never openly resolved, but it is pretty clear that Aguirre is supposed to be the murderer. 
3. I changed one time "explorers" to "soldiers" - I thought "explorer" is a bit euphemizing. 
Hope that's ok! Corinius (talk) 02:35, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plot Synopsis: Changes 

message: Something is wrong with the article.  It states at one point:
"Herzog paid several locals to trap 400 monkeys...Herzog loaded them into his jeep and drove away."
Now, this strikes me as exceedingly unlikely.  Can anyone clarify what was really going on here?  Checking the source?  (It seems to be the commentary track on the DVD, which I do not have.)
Beska (talk) 18:20, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe it should be 40? That sounds more like the actual number in that scene. More likely Herzog just made up some number out of nowhere on the commentary. He has no problem exaggerating. Staecker (talk) 01:06, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  400 monkeys in a jeep? 

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