Talk:Societal impacts of cars

message: This is a very good article. As a passer-by, I was amazed at your decision to delete it. I understand your reasoning, but I think it should be moved rather than deleted. It is, after all, a nice, long, well-structured article that deserves to stay. Remember, Wikipedia is not only a conventional encyclopedia. Yes, it looks like an essay, but I think it should be integrated with automobile or something like that -- Ronline, 22 Nov 2003
:I think it's a very opinionated article, it says very little against the automobile and the one line paragraph on safety implies accidents are a thing of the past.  It is a good essay, maybe it would be better suited boosting the egos of <I>certain</I> fat-cats.  I'd best say no more incase I begin to sound political.  SimonMayer 06:47, 11 Jan 2004 (GMT)
::Simon, please give this article a thorough editing. I've parsed it down, but it still needs a lot of work. See if you can remove the POV and redundancies. And see if you can remove parts that are already written elsewhere in wikipedia. My head hurts trying to deal with this article. Kingturtle 17:52, 11 Jan 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure I have the ability or knowledge to change it, infact I don't know if I have the strength, I set the challenge for someone else to do it... SimonMayer 10:33, 13 Jan 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Older comments

message: After reading the comments above, I would like to do a load of work on this area and I would appreciate any thoughts anyone has on my ideas.
I think the article should be renamed something like 'Effects of the automobile on society' and the following areas covered:
*Remove subjective trash like 'The automobile gave whole new meanings to accessibility, time, and distance', concentrate on facts.
*The article should start with a summary, not stuff that belongs on automobile
*comments like '(Flink, 33)' should be binned unless someone has a good reason for them.
*I'm open to suggestions, but perhaps the article should be restructured something along the lines of:
**Cultural changes
**Economic changes
**Technological changes
I don't want to offend anyone with my changes, and I will probably have to do them in stages, so please do let me know how it's going and feel free to edit/delete/revert etc as you see fit. akaDruid 13:25, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow! Excellent reformating and edits. This page needed it! Excellent work. Keep at it :) Kingturtle 18:16, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: RFC on some major changes to this article

message: I think a photo of a snarled, bumper-to-bumper freeway would be more appropriate than the one here.  This must be from the early 1960s.  Anybody?  heidimo  16:02, 7 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Photo

message: Because of the automobile, cities grew and suburbs appeared for the first time.
:Not quite true.  In LA—considered by some to be the apotheosis of suburban auto hell—the sprawl actually started with Pacific Electric's extensive network of streetcar and interurban routes, at a time when large numbers of average folks were still using public transit.  I rewrote this sentence and polished up the following one.  --Sewing 23:55, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Suburban growth

message: Please change the name of the name of the article back. The facts and figures and topics in this article are about America. The article is about the effects on the United States. Feel free to start a different article about society at large. Kingturtle 15:34, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: "I'm proposing we change the title of the article anyway (see above) since there is little US-specific content..." - akaDruid. One of you is wrong! Pete/Pcb21 (talk) 15:51, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: But if it does get made US-specific again, please remove the pictures of London and Australia! Pete/Pcb21 (talk) 15:56, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  name of article 

message: This article is completely from the POV industrialized-nations and from the POV of Western nations. It barely (if at all) touches on cultural anthropology (which would seem vital if we are talking about societies). There is nothing here regarding the effects on third world societies or on communist or totalitarian societies, or indigenous peoples. Moreover, nearly all the effects discussed in this article have to do with what happened in the United States, but not other societies. There are difference between the effects of the automobile on the U.S., France, China, Russia, Afghanistan, etc.
Therefore the new (and even the old) name of this article is misleading and off target. Really, this article should be renamed Effects of the automobile on Western industrialized societies...but even that isn't fully accurate. Kingturtle 18:53, 9 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I had actually support its deletion. But since people wanted it to stay, I put in a few huge edits early on. This article still needs tremendous revisions. Kingturtle 20:15, 9 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Effects of the automobile on society" moved to "Effects of the automobile on societies"??? 

message: *What does the word "pizzarized" mean?  As in , Automobile accidents caused many deaths before automobile safety laws were pizzarized.... If it's a typo, it should be corrected.  If it's a real word, it isn't in common usage.  Perhaps a definition is warranted. --Kaleid 02:22, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other commentary 

message: I'm going to remove this section becuase it is, as far as I can tell, just a bunch of random thoughts and I can't find any source that supports these ideas. Are there any objections? futurebird 23:40, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Remove: Changes to individual lifestyle in America

message: I have some issues with this section.  Here are the bullets currently listed and my respective issues (rearranged for ease of nitpicking):
*Buy gasoline at a gas station (in the few areas where full service is still available)
*Have the car washed
::If you do not have a car, I wouldn't need to acquire gas or wash it.
*Buy many different kinds of food and beverage
*Buy freshly prepared coffee or other similar beverages
*Purchase alcoholic beverages from a drive through liquor store where local ordinances permit
::I agree with the intent, but providing separate descriptions for coffee and alcohol is too arbitrary to me.  I pickup bagels, tacos, burgers, and whole chickens without having to leave my car; but no need to list each of those on their own.
*Obtain cash from an ATM
*Deposit mail for delivery by the postal service
*Drop off apparel for dry cleaning
*Pick up and pay for prescription drugs at a pharmacy
*Return library books, videotapes, or almost any other small object that is regularly lent to the public
::I'm actually OK with these, for now, though I do want to point out that I can similarly perform all of these without ever having to leave my feet. :)
Sláinte! --Bossi (talk ;; contribs) 22:32, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Car-oriented Convenience

message: To the person who stuck the infinite number of "citation needed" tags into this article, might I point you to WP:Point?  This is ridiculous.  Wouldn't a banner at the top of the article or even the sections suffice?  Give me a break.  Zweifel 08:37, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proving a point

message: I removed the claim:
:In comparison to pedestrians or users of mass transit, drivers of automobiles are not able to travel as quickly in inner-city urban cores.
because it is unreferenced and somewhat dubious.  It's certainly faster to get around downtown Boston in a car than it is on foot, if you are going more than a block or two.  Sometimes it is faster to take the subway than, but that depends on traffic and parking. -- Beland 18:34, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed claim 

message: *There's a lot more to be said about the environmental impact of the car, for example:
** Listing other pollutants besides CO2, such as ozone, NOx, sulphur dioxide, particular matter, etc.
** Discussion what proportion of the emissions of various pollutants are due to automobiles
** Discussion of which places are most impacted by automobile pollution
** Summarize automobile emissions control
** Discussion of differences between developed and developing countries
* Nothing in this article is mentioned about the huge impact of the internal combustion engine on cargo transport.  The article truck doesn't mention any social effects, and this article might not be such a bad place for coverage of the social impact of both cars and trucks.
* There is no mention of the economic impact of cars on trade, other than the decentralization of cities.
** What about the transportation economics of rural farming?
** What about the economics of finding a job in a large metropolitan area?
** What about the impact on the dynamics of inter-urban trade of goods and services?
** What about the impact on the railroad passenger and cargo industries?
** What about the impact of highways on economic dominance (I'm thinking of the rise of Route 128 ove downtown Boston due to better freeway access, the decline of Route 66, and how cities like New York, Chicago, and Atlanta used to be water or rail transport hubs, but seem to have transitioned into the automobile era)
** Urban sprawl is not mentioned by name, except in the "see also" section.  Discussion of land use differences between e.g. New York and Los Angeles would be interesting.
* More specific information is needed about traffic accidents than "many deaths and injuries".  Statistics on the frequency thereof, as well as areas and demographics for which traffic accidents are the leading cause of death and injury would be appropriate.
* Nothing is mentioned about traffic congestion.
* The article externality is linked in the "see also" section, but this should really be explained with regard to specific effects, such as pollution and congestion.
-- Beland 18:53, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Expansion requests 

message: * What about the financial cost of accidents? Currently £18bn annually in the UK, didn't want to edit the main page as it's a US context and I don't know the annual US cost.
-- Nick.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.180.238.227 (talk) 21:41, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Further hidden costs 

message: I propose to rename this article Automobile social impacts.  It is shorter and more to the point.  It would also be easier to find this title when one is searching lists for automobile related topics. Alternatively it could be named Automobile societal impacts. Timiddriver 04:19, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Name change

message: The whole section on costs is written like a persuasive mini-essay on why roads and parking should be tolled to reduce driving, not to mention the graph of aggravating red colors representing the car and calming blue representing public transportation. Our own opinions aside it's a pretty one sided and unencyclopedic section. It should be rewritten somehow, but I'm not quite sure how to go about it myself.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.150.253.56 (talk) 03:03, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Biased Section

message: User:Loodog insists that the automobile is the "de facto" transportation standard in ALL (and not MOST) developed countries. But, for instance, the majority of personal journeys in Singapore and The Netherlands don't even happen by automobile. In Singapore the modal share for public transport is 63% of all motorised journeys, and the government wants to increase it to 75% .  Anyone who has been to the Netherlands knows that the whole infrastructure is built around bicycles, and that cars are given very low priority in cities. What makes you so sure that the automobile is the "de facto" standard (which implies highly dominant modal share) in those countries, rather than just one of the standards? Cambrasa (talk) 04:56, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Check again.  That wasn't me.--Loodog (talk) 12:26, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe it was an edit conflict, but check out this -SCEhardT 13:39, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that I did do.--Loodog (talk) 18:37, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Which included "in most developed" -> "in developed".  So, you are OK with Cambrasa's reversion? -SCEhardT 20:56, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: "De facto" standard of transport

message: In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :) 
* "asphalt" :
** ..
** .
DumZiBoT (talk) 03:16, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bot report : Found duplicate references ! 

message: I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:
::This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:
::#There is consensus on the talkpage or the NPOV Noticeboard that the issue has been resolved
::#It is not clear what the neutrality issue is, and no satisfactory explanation has been given
::#In the absence of any discussion, or if the discussion has become dormant.
Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 15:11, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  removing POV tag with no active discussion per [[Template:POV]] 

message: In the history section
"This increase in production required a large, new work force. In 1913 13,623 people worked at Ford Motor Company, but by 1915 18,028 people worked there"
A better statement than this would be say---> in the united states in 1905 X number of people were employed in the automotive industry by 1930 X number of people were employed in the automotive industry just need to find a good source now if anyone can help let me know Sassmouth (talk) 01:35, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  This statement not encyclopedic enough 

message: Someone added on the article a tag for additional verification without specifying anything. This article has already 47 sources! Either the person specifies which sentence needs verification (with the tag "citation needed") or that tag makes no sense.145.64.134.245 (talk) 14:48, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Additional verification?! 

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: There is no source for the claim, that motorists in portugal spend over half of their income for their car and a spontaneous google search did not brought any fruits. Perhaps someone can clarify? Tulpenliebhaber (talk) 07:12, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source for cost in Portugal is missing