Talk:Hany Abu-Assad

message: The section is problematic. If they are references, make them so. CyberAnth 06:24, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  No they are not references, but The Tikkun and Telegraph are Interviews, others are notable articles regarding Paradise Now. Lordb 20:30, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: External links

message: In my opinion, we should stick to the facts. A person who holds Israeli citizenship, is definitely an Israeli (or maybe "Israeli-Palestinian"/"Palestinian-Israeli"). So it is wrong to call him a "Palestinian film director". 95.89.160.195 (talk)
:Thank you for your opinion. However, the reliable sources cited call him Palestinian in deference to how he defines himself. That he holds Israeli citizenship and Dutch (or Belgian) does not factor in to how he defines himself. Please read WP:BLP too. Thanks. Tiamuttalk 16:28, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: A person who was born in Israel and hold an Israeli citizenship which he has not renounced is an Israeli. We can add his self-identification, be we don;t censor facts. Silver surprise (talk) 02:07, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: “When we say ‘Israeli Arab,’ for me, it’s almost like denying this other person that exists within me that I cannot help. It’s there, it’s my blood, my culture, my parents, it’s my history,” - Hany Abu-Assad. So, no, we will not be doing that because we don't impose identities on living people. Sean.hoyland - talk 05:02, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: We can certianly add that to a section that describes his self-identification, but we will not be censoring the undisputed fact that he is an Israeli citizen, just becuase he doesn't like it. Silver surprise (talk) 01:19, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: And I've now read your source, and you have lied. It is not Hany Abu HAssad who said what you falsely attributed to him, but some Plaestinian actress Silver surprise (talk) 01:31, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I misread that. It was Hiam Abbass. It was a mistake not a lie. I leave the lying to the nationalist drones and sockpuppets. I'll have a look at how he identifies himself but Israeli-born Palestinian looks okay to me. Sean.hoyland - talk 04:09, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

text: Sean.hoylnd, not only did you misuse a source, even if in accident, but your statement that "So, no, we will not be doing that because we don't impose identities on living people" is wrong and not policy based. The inexperienced user 'Silver surprise' was right - Hany was born in Israel, so he's Israeli, a simple fact. If he's Israeli, then Wikipedia classifies him as so. According you the logic you said, a person who was born in South Africa but doesn't want to be called "South African" for one reason or another, shouldn't have a country of birth in Wikipedia categorization. It's absurd. If you agree that it's correct to say in the lead that he's an "Israeli-born Palestinians", why is the Wikipedia category of Israeli born people not acceptable? It is POV. Shalom11111 (talk) 11:59, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Identity is not a simple fact and Wikipedia does not impose identities on living people. Living people have a say in establishing their identities and decent reliable sources (and decent people) honor that by incorporating their views, which of course we are obliged to reflect. My edits  removed the Israeli-Arab label. Editors can't simply apply this label to someone who doesn't use that label for themselves. It's wrong. It's a fact that he has Israeli citizenship. That doesn't necessarily make him "Israeli" e.g. "Q. you carry an Israeli passport. A. That's true, but I'm not Israeli, he says. Israel calls itself a Jewish state, and I'm not Jewish. If it becomes everybody's state, then I would be able to be called Israeli Israeli." Or "Hany Abu-Assad was born in Nazareth and holds an Israeli passport, but he says this does not make him an Israeli - nor, for that matter, an Israeli-Arab, the coinage preferred within Israel." It's also a fact that he's a Dutch citizen. The article should include the factual information but it shouldn't ignore his views about the term "Israeli" being applied to him or erase the Palestinian identity he gives himself, an identity that is reflected by many RS. He also apparently rejects the term "Israeli Arab" by the way, in general e.g. "You can't be an Israeli Arab" I haven't said anything about an Israeli born category so I don't what you are referring to. He's in the People from Nazareth. He's a person and he is from Nazareth. Sean.hoyland - talk 17:14, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with Sean, Hany has nationality ties to Israel & Dutch, but he is ethnically Palestinian and self identifies as such, the Israeli blanket term "Israeli Arab" is used by the Irsaeli government to inaccurately blanket all arabic speaking people together as one ethnicity. It is hardly used by Palestinians to describe themselves as it ignores their Palestinian ethnicity. Lazyfoxx (talk) 19:19, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Lazyfoxx, while I know what the term "Palestinian" means, I've actually never heard the term "Palestinian ethnicity" before and am pretty sure the vast majority of scholars would say such a term doesn't exist, but whatever. Sean.Hoyland, let's stick to facts please. Hany Abu-Assad may consider himself a Palestinian, Arab, Muslim, or whatever he wants. The category :Category:Arab citizens of Israel is for all Arabs who were born in Israel (Arab Israelis), which also applies to the example you brought up - if someone has an Israeli citizenship or were born in Israel, then they're an Israeli Arab by definition and that's a fact. An Italian who's born in the U.S. is an Italian American, whether he, you, or anyone like it or not. Hany Abu-Assad's ideological beliefs cannot take away his birth certificate which says and will always say that he was born in the Jewish state, the State of Israel. If you respond to this saying you still disagree, then I'll take it to the WP:BLP noticeboard. Shalom11111 (talk) 20:28, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: How can you be editing in the Israeli/Palestinian area and never heard the term Palestinian ethnicity before?  Are you implying the "vast majority of scholars" believe that the Palestinian ethnic group does not exist?  What about the Germans, French, Lebanese, Greek, Italian ethnic groups, do they not exist as well by your logic? Lazyfoxx (talk) 21:23, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: First of all, the I/P area is not my main editing focus, so that could be why. Or I may have seen it and forgotten about it, because I really can't recall seeing this term. Anyway, of course many scholars do not consider people of every region/country as unique "ethnic groups", and that even applies to Jews. Here, read what I found, FYI: "Most of the population now known as Palestinian descended from migrants originating from the surrounding Arab countries and from local Bedouins. Many migrated in waves from the middle of the nineteenth century to the middle of the twentieth century. Others were imported by the Ottoman Empire and by the British for infrastructure and agricultural projects, or migrated to the region following Zionist economic success, which produced a staggering population growth.[41] Palestinians are perhaps the newest of all peoples, comprising many scattered groups. In fact, in origin they are more Egyptian, Syrian, Jordanian, Lebanese, and mainly Bedouin, than Palestinian." This is why calling them as a whole an "ethnic group" surprised me a little, that's all. Shalom11111 (talk) 00:07, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: You are quoting David Bukay, an unreliable source associated with Zionist agenda, it's no wonder you are surprised that Palestinians are referred to as an Ethnic group.  MEQ, which you derived that quote from is not regarded by the community as a peer-reviewed journal for Wikipedia purposes. As an uninvolved regular RSN contributor puts it "MEQ has come up several times before. Not to be regarded as a straightforward academic journal."   I suggest you read up on the subject, as a start may I suggest some of the reliable sources found in the Palestinian people article. Lazyfoxx (talk) 01:45, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

text: "if someone has an Israeli citizenship or were born in Israel, then they're an Israeli Arab by definition and that's a fact"...no, that isn't a fact, that is what you have been taught to believe. It is the Israeli way of labeling some people and nothing more than that. Wikipedia isn't Israel. Sean.hoyland - talk 03:00, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Israeli nationality - Palestinian self-identification?