Talk:Al-Bassa

message: I have been to the village, and heard its history from an elder who witnessed the events of 1948. In May 14th 1948 the village was circled from 3 directions by Israeli forces. The villagers escaped to the north, acrosss the border to Lebanon (and were not deported two weeks later as the article states). There were at least 3 churches and a mosque, and they remain the only buildings still standing in Bassa today. Pelegisrael 13:01, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: mistakes

message: Hey Tiamut! I added the Tristram quotes to the article ....*before* I knew  (or they were)  available on the net. Now they just seem far to big; I tried to "hide" them , but I´m not really happy with the result. Shall we just remove them? Make a short  summary of what they say? Then just make ref. to the google-page with the inf., like "Trisdam (1865),  p.68, p. p.69" What do you think? Huldra (talk) 22:31, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey you. I'll try to cut them down or paraphrase as we move along here. Question: Is Trisdam another spelling of Tristram? I assumed it was and changed all Trisdam's to Tristram's but if I'm wrong let me know and I'll undo it. Nice to see you again my dear. Sorry for not emailing. I'm quite tied up with this film stuff I'm working on for the next couple of months so the book project I told you about is on hold until then. If you do want to talk and send me a email, let me know by dropping a note on my page because I don't check it unless someone asks me to. Kisses. Tiamuttalk 22:48, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Ooopsh, yeah; "Trisdam" is just a misspelling for  Henry Baker Tristram. And don´t worry about putting the book-project on hold. Great to see  you editing; cheers, Huldra (talk) 22:56, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thought so, but thanks for confirming. I'll try to do as much as I can in the next couple of months, but I'll be pretty busy. Great to see you too though as always. take care of your hands and happy editing. Tiamuttalk 23:01, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

text: Oh PS. if you have any info on Salbit that you have time to add, that would be good. I created it today and if we can fill in some of the blanks using Khalidi, I'll nominate it for a DYK. If you add things even in just point form, I'll make them into prose and do the formatting of the ref and biblio and everything. No pressure though. If we miss DYK, we can always make it quality later on anyway. Much love, Tiamuttalk 23:03, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh  dear; Khalidi has hardly *anything* on Salbit, I have already added what is in his meagre  "history"-part. I will try to check out Morris, and archaeology refs. in the next day or two. And if you tale a look at User:Huldra/Sources, you will see some notes for articles about 1948-villages that should be written. Kafr Saba is really top of the list; a millennium of history there. All the ones I have listed there either have pictures on commons and/or are discussed by Benvenisti and/or Pappe (in addition to Khalidi and Morris). We are not running out of work! Take care, my dear, Huldra (talk) 23:18, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry hon, I missed your edits there until just a few minutes ago. Thanks for adding what he has. I will try to make Kafr Saba my next new article project, drawing heavily upon your page info of course. We can make that into a DYK quite easily I think given what you already have and how fast I can find and add new stuff. ;) Thanks for continually reminding me of the valuable resource you have there. I'm sorry I'm such a forgetful dunce and keep missing the opportunity to mine the gold mine. Happy editing me dear. Tiamuttalk 23:25, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hey, come on, *you* are the one who can "iron" out my language and make it readable! Hmm,  Al-Bassa is starting to look  ok; we need to get rid off those "hidden" quotes, though. Oh well, I´ll start adding info for our next project, Kafr Saba, take care! Huldra (talk) 23:58, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll do more work on Al-Bassa tomorrow and the next day. I'll also add whatever I can on Kfar Saba to your subpage. From there, when we're happy with it, we can farm it out to a new article and nom for DYK right away. It will be ready and we won't feel any pressure that way. Your the best Huldra. It takes pebbles from all of us to build these articles and without yours I would be lost. Tiamuttalk 00:03, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, that plan sounds good. There are notes for about 8 new articles on  User:Huldra/Sources, I had actually not planned starting any before I had got  the other 1948-village-articles in a better shape, but say, once a week or so, we could indulge  ourselves and start a  new one ;-) Anyway, I think I have done for tonight; the next two days I might be occupied with other things, but then I should be back. Take care, see ya, my dear, Huldra (talk) 00:26, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Perfect. I'll add what I can over the next two days. We'll decide when to move out after it's been plumped up a little. I'll be busy next week, but if all I have to do is nominate it and keep track of the DYK nom process (after having added everything I can to your sub-page first of course) we might be able to make Kfar Saba a reality by next week. I think I;m going to go to be too. It's 3:30am here (ooof insomnia again) ;) At least it makes me productive. Sweet dreams my dear. Tiamuttalk 00:32, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: And to you, too! We are one hour before you, but anyway; good-night and sweet dreams! Huldra (talk) 00:43, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Trisdam Quotes

message: *Reverted these edits. Removing well-sourced, relevant information from this article, or altering it to reflect your own personal tae on how it should read, and adding very POV, one-sided summaries of the reasons for the outbreak of the 1948 war, from sources that do not even mention al-Bassa ... well, I'm sorry, but this kind of editing simply will not fly here. 
*If Mr. AbulHornochsmann would like to add some background material on the 1948 war here, it should be material that is directly related to al-Bassa and is WP:NPOV. I suggest however, that simply linking to our own articles that discuss these issues in depth would be better practice, since there are hundreds of villages that were depopulated in 1948 and repeating the same bit about 1948 in each of them, in general terms, would be quite tedious. Tiamuttalk 10:02, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deletions of sourced, relevant material - insertion of POV and remotely related material 

message: In the history of this article, and perhaps remaining still is text copied from this source. Fred Talk 13:42, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It is not "copied" text. It is text that is paraphrased from that source, and cited to it at the end of every sentence in question (of which there are three currently in the article). If you feel that the paraphrase is too close for comfort, by all means modify it. I tend to stick as closely as possible to the wording in the sources since slight deviations tend to be challenged as POV or OR by people who don't like the info being introduced. Tiamuttalk 16:14, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Copying from a source

message: Very well, no harm in discussing it.
Can someone please explain to me how a "Miltary Assault" is an entirely separate cause for the depopulation than an outright "Expulsion"? The population was there, and then they left. Why did they leave? According to one source it was because they were expelled by Jews. Fine. How did these Jews manage to gain sufficient control of the village to carry through this expulsion? Military Assault. You can't expell people from a place if you don't control that place. All we're talking about here are two separate stages of one alleged cause.
Q: What was the cause of the Holocaust? A: There was no single cause. Indeed there were seventeen:
Cause 1) The rise of National Socialism in Germany; Cause 2) Adolph Hitler's election to Chancellor in 1933; Cause 3) Adolph Hitler's possession of racial theories classifying Jews as subhuman; Cause 4) The implementation of Adolph Hitler's racial theories classifying Jews as subhuman; Cause 5) The construction of Death Camps. Cause 6) The construction of Gas Chambers. Cause 7) The herding of Jews into those Gas Chambers; Cause 8) The introction of the deadly gas "Zyklon B" into those Gas Cambers; Cause 9) The deadly reaction of the Jews to the introduction of Zyklon B into Gas Chambers they happened to have been located in. Cause 10) The cremation of those Jews killed by Zyklon B. Cause 12) Hyper-inflation. Cause 13) The harshness of the Treaty of Versailles. Cause 14) German bitterness over the harshness of the Treaty of Versailles. Cause 15) Mohammad Amin al-Husayni's alliance with Hitler. Cause 16) Al-Husayani's extreme inhospitality in that he refused to so much as allow Jews the most temporary of assylums in Palestine, even if only to save another human's life and kick him out once the war is over. Cause 17) The German need for soap.
But there aren't 17 causes. There is but one: Jew-Hatred.
What would actually be of some USE would be to offer ALTERNATIVE explanations, such as those of Eminent Historian Cecil Roth:
"At the outset the Arab authorities had made it known that any person remaining in the areas controlled by the Jews would be regarded as acquiescing in their political pretentions and would have to answer for it. Thus, with the outbreak of hostilities there took place a wholesale evacuation in preparation for a triumphant return." 70.25.46.99 (talk) 00:15, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Basically, Morris is fudging the issue by insisting there were multiple causes of the ethnic cleansing - and particularly when he says that some of it was voluntary. There was only one cause for all of the ethnic cleansing, and it was the greed of armed robbers. Cecil Roth's explanation is both nasty and false, modern historians accept what obviously went on. 86.159.70.117 (talk) 22:12, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jewish Military Assault and Jewish Expulsion: One cause or two?  

message: Finally I see some NPOV introduced to this series. 
Still http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Al-Kabri_massacre&action=edit§ion=1 is unnacceptable.
This article as well must be unprotected as it remains one of the few to gloss over the Muslim Conquests in an attempt to distort history. Please unprotect this article promptly. Thank you. AH 65.94.244.9 (talk) 14:10, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Progress! 

message: Finally I see some NPOV introduced to this series. 
Still http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Al-Kabri_massacre&action=edit§ion=1 is unnacceptable.
This article as well must be unprotected as it remains one of the few to gloss over the Muslim Conquests in an attempt to distort history. Please unprotect this article promptly. Thank you. AH 65.94.244.9 (talk) 14:11, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: May I suggest that you create an account instead? Invitrovanitas (talk) 14:41, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I created two accounts, both permablocked by ZERO after I attempted to remove blatantly false and antisemitic propaganda. She even went so far as to change the case of a letter to make a blue link I was referencing red, making it appear that the article didn't exist. 65.94.247.31 (talk) 16:40, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Progress! 

message: It has glaring errors in it, yet Ican't edit it. Please unblock it. 65.94.244.63 (talk) 15:38, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why is this article blocked? 

message: I'm trying to sort out the history of Metawalis (Shi'ite Muslims) in Palestine, and there are contradictions regarding this place.
# Napoleon described al-Bassa as a village of Metawalis in 1799 (which is probably too long ago to draw conclusions about recent times).
# The 1922 census classified all the Muslims in al-Bassa as Metawali.  The 1931 census does not appear to provide a classification.
# Asher Kaufman, Between Palestine and Lebanon: Seven Shi'i Villages as a Case Study of Boundaries, Identities, and Conflict, Middle East Journal, Vol. 60, No. 4 (Autumn, 2006), pp. 685-706 describes al-Bassa in 1920–1923 as "split between Sunnis and Greek Catholics", in contradiction to the 1922 census.
# Khalid Sindawi, Are there any Shi’ite Muslims in Israel?, Journal of Holy Land Studies, 7.2 (2008) 183–199, mentions the 1922 census enumeration in a footnote but does not otherwise mention al-Bassa at all.
# A 2006 newspaper article of Danny Rubinstein says that Hassan Nasrallah sometimes includes al-Bassa when he calls for return of the Shi'ite villages to Lebanon.
So my question is: what other evidence is there? Zerotalk 02:50, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Now I have received mail from an acknowledged expert: the 1922 census had a mistake and this has been confirmed by people from the village. Zerotalk 06:55, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Were the Muslims of al-Bassa Sunni or Shia? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello, there is a serious error in the section about the 1922 census. The text here, on Wp en, mentions only 150 Mehawedi (shii muslims), and then states that another source (Kaufman) speaks also about sunnites in the village. But it is because whoever wrote from the 1922 Census source forgot one column : the first column of the report (online ) indeed  also indicates 366 "Mohammedans" (sunnites, thus, I suppose), who are not mentionned on the wp page ! I cannot correct myself because of the protection (I am mostly a contributor on Wp fr). I have "corrected" on the French version. But I see that 6 six years ago (above), there was an issue about the 1922 census and the contradictions, but it is not clear to me if the issue is about the "real" census, or what is reported from it in Wikipedia (which as I said is not correct). Also, of course, we cannot use hearsay as a source. If the census is really false, what is the correct source (those I looked at used the census) ? In any case, the total number here is not correct, etc. Thank you ! --Cgolds (talk) 09:40, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Error to be corrected on the date imported from the 1922 census