Talk:Juventus FC/Archive 1

message: Shouldn't there be some mention on the case of 'Sporting Fraud' brought against Juventus. --Debunct 04:19, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sporting fraud against Juventus 

message: If anyone wants a Juve userbox for their userpage, I've made one. Bigdottawa 00:14, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Userbox 

message: 1)The oficial name of the Barza is Futbol Club Barcelona (FC Barcelona), not "Barcelona FC"
http://www.fcbarcelona.com/eng/home-page/home/home.shtml
2)The second championship in Europe (C2) is the UEFA (or European) CUP WINNER'S CUP, not "UEFA Winner's Cup".
http://www.uefa.com/competitions/ecwc/index.html
3)Juventus FC have 11 official international trophies, is the second team in Italy, the second in Europe (with Liverpool FC), and the second in the world after Real Madrid (ESP), AC Milan (Ita), Independiente de Avellaneda and Boca Juniors (2 teams from ARG) with 15 trophies (record).
4)About the "Three Major European Tournaments", FC Barcelona NEVER has won the UEFA Cup (by U.E.F.A, since 1972), this spanish club has won the European Inter-Cities Fairs Cup (an european cup since 1958 from 1971, NOT recognized by U.E.F.A) 3 times. 
U.E.F.A recognized this honour (win the Three Major...) ONLY for 3 teams in Europe: Juventus FC (in 1985 / Targa U.E.FA GS Honour in 1987), AFC Ajax (in 1992) and FC Bayern Munich (in 1996).
:In the article Juventus FC NOT exist NPOV (by ANTI-juve supporters). --Dantemateo 21:11, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  About this Article 

message: Historically, the "Old Lady" is the 6th (in top-10) best football team for international palmares, all-time, in the world (world ranking from season 1955/56 to season 2005/06 of FIFA Official Tournaments).
http://www.universofutbol.com.ar/ranking/inicio.htm (in Spanish).
http://www.universofutbol.com.ar/ranking/ranking.htm (in Spanish).
http://www.universofutbol.com.ar/ranking/valordelospuntos.htm (DETAILS OF THE RANKING, in Spanish).
:These rankings are as much subjective as objective and should not be used. There is no official world ranking for teams, and so one shouldn't imply that there is. aLii 12:51, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  The numbers are not liars!  --Dantemateo 23:34, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Juventus in the World 

message: This section is extremelly subjective and prejudicial. The author, without ANY proof, subjectively criticised Juventus as "the most hated" club in Italy. As the author pointed out that juve's "detractors mainly point the mysterious gap between Juve's national and international successes", it clearly shows the author has NO knowledge of juve's successes, and subjectively wrote this article based on the author's own prejudice. Juventus FC, WITH 11 OFFICIAL international titles in his palmares, IS 3rd ranking for performance in the European Championships in period of 1955-2006 (all-time), and 4th in the Champions league/euro cup in similar period, also with two Toyota Cup winnings Juventus is one of most success club internationally.
:About the "most hated" definition, even if I feel it is probably true, I changed the sentence to "most controversial". About the "mysterious gap", I removed the adjective "mysterious", but I cannot feel to have to power to remove all the sentence, as Juventus is by far the most winning team in number of Italian leagues (28, 29 in the near future, against the 17 of AC Milan), but has won the Champions League only two times, like Inter Milan, against the 6 of AC Milan. --Angelo 23:10, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's true, but you seem to forget that in the last 10 years Juventus has reached four Champions League finals, winning once and has won a Toyota cup and a European supercup. Wile probably being less effective in Europe than in Italy, one can not state that Juventus fails to succeed in Europe due to the lack of support from, referees. That's an subjective statement which fails to comply to the standards of wikipedia and, imho, only helps to create confusion and maybe anger among the readers.
* Of the article:
Doping accusations
In 1998, former A.S. Roma manager Zdeněk Zeman accused Juventus physicians of doping its players from 1993-94 to 1997-98 seasons. After several years of official inquiries and 2 trials by UEFA and FIGC, the case was dismissed in late December 14, 2005 for statute of limitations, and the Juventus physician Riccardo Agricola has been cleared of all the doping charges due to the statute of limitations. (The substances in question were Erythropoietin, legal in sports medicine and used frequently among cyclists, but was prohibited until the 2000-01 season by the World Anti-Doping Agency, and, principally, creatine, which is considered an athletic legal supplement and has never been prohibited by WADA and COI).
Libyan shareholders
Libyan leader's Muammar Gaddafi's family, has since 2002 held a 7.5 percent stake of Juventus shares through the Libyan Arab Foreign Investment Company (LAFICO).
And the sole Official Sponsor is Tamoil, an oil company based in the Netherlands and set up by the Libyan state.
Is possible the doping case of 1994-1998 with NOT PROHIBITED substances (creatine IS NOT prohibited and EPO, prohibited SINCE 2001)????????????
Is controvertial Tamoil?????????? Why??????????
Juventus F.C. is the only aticle with controversy section OF EN.WIKI... 
IS MISSION of WIKI?????       WHY???????
NPOV???????????  --Dantemateo 20:58, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  About "Rivalries and Controversy" section 

message: *It is furthermore notable how AC Milan Juventus' rival number one, has never been accused of doping, referee corruption or even of simple "psychological pressure" on them, despite earning even more victories since Silvio Berlusconi's takeover of the society - and despite an evident "soft stance" in its favor by most referees.
soft stance? well I can't remember episodes pro-Milan like the famous Oliver Bierhoff goal, or the goal against Empoli or even the Iuliano penalty against Inter... I don't think making "all the same" is a good way of NPOV.
*This lack of accuses on press and television can be proof of Milan's fair play and high standards (curiouslly, AC Milan was relegated by the Football Federation, together with S.S. Lazio, because of a match fixing scandal in 1979-80 season, and played in consecuence, Serie B the following season), but more cynical observers point to the abject subservience shown by most Italian journalists towards Berlusconi, who was Prime Minister of Italy up to April, 2006.
and so?? managers aren't the same of 30 years ago man! wake up... =_= and for the newspapers...well have you ever read something about Berlusconi on an Italian paper? Usually it's an article about his height or his hair... =_=
If you're trying to say "well, yeah Juventus steals, but it's not the only one! It's all normal guys!" try again.
--necronudist 17:15, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well this isn't an answer. Berlusconi owns the majority of the italian newspaper, but the FACTS are that he is widely depicted as a bald dwarf. It's like saying: well, Galliani is the president of Lega so he will win all of the Serie A championships... how stupid =_=
And for the other episodes, I've cited WIDELY AMBIGOUS episodes, you can't compare the Inzaghi penalty against Parma (and for me it is a clear penalty) or that agains Bayern (which is more ambigous) with the Bierhoff goal who was a goal (to say it with Elio e Le Storie Tese) like the measures of Rocco Siffredi or the goal agains Empoli who was very similar, maybe 3/4 of Rocco. There are EXPLICIT FACTS and QUESTIONABLE FACTS, you can't compare them. I think you should use some more common sense. I repeat: there's lack of NPOV --necronudist 00:58, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I'm not saying that! I'm not saying that ONLY juventus steals, it's stupid. I'm saying that is ALSO stupid talking about other clubs in order to minizime Juventus responsabilities, and citing the Totonero case in an article who sould be about Juventus is stupid. It's like saying that all clubs steals so it isn't so bad doing this, and that AC Milan 30 years ago was in the Totonero scandal so it's strange that it didn't take part on this scandal (and we're seeing in these ours that in fact, AC Milan have some responsability). However, you don't want to understand (and my bad bad bad english doesn't help, I'm sorry) so it's dumb to go ahead. I just repeat that there's lack of NPOV. Who should judge, will judge. --necronudist 18:14, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[NPOV]]? 

message: Do not change the info box until it is annnounced what, if any penalties Juventus will face for the current scandal. I agree, it's likely that they will go down, but let's not jump the gun. Thanks! SirFozzie 05:55, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Changed some of the wording about Juventus' first season in Serie B so it reads better. The whole part about the scandal should probably be edited, since a lot has changed today. Genome82 19:41, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think someone should edit the whole section about the scandal, a lot of events have unfolded since the sentence was given about a month ago.  All the transfers should be edited especially. --- Tha Eastsydah 21:10, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Serie A penalties 

message: Juve can no longer claim 27 scudetti. They were recently stripped of 2, which means this article can no longer state that they have 27. While the verdict is under appeal it is rather unlikely that those 2 scudetti will be restored. Furthermore, I don't see any problem if someone wants to write something along the lines of "While Juve originally won 27 league titles, they were stripped of 2(insert years here) after the 2006 match-fixing scandal which also resulted in the club getting relegated to Serie B for the first time in its history.~~Kane 24 July 2006~~
:No, it's 27, not 29. CapPixel 20:32, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Juve won 29 scudetti (2 in National Championship before Serie A; 25 in Serie A and the last 2, revocated); RECORD in Italy.--Dantemateo 21:09, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: 25 Scudetti (Not 27)

message: Does anyone know when Juventus' players get their new shirt numbers for the 2006/2007 season?  Thank you. --- Tiago Heitor 23:12, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  When do Juventus' players get their new shirt numbers? 

message: There is an entirely seperate article for all the full details of it; 2006 Serie A scandal, its way too long at the moment taking up most of the Juve article. The club has been around for over a hundred years, most of the article doesn't need to be centered on this year alone. - Deathrocker 00:48, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "corruption scandal"... needs triming

message: What is the difference between the Lazio Regional Court appeal and the Civil Court appeal? Is the Lazio regional court the same thing as a Civil court?
::Juventus filed an appeal at the Lazio regional court in a last effort to be reinstated into Serie A, but withdrew the appeal on August 31. In mid-August 2006, the start of the Serie A championship was postponed by two weeks to September 10. On Monday, August 21, 2006, it was announced that Juventus would be turning to a civil court. [13] [14]. However, on August 31 the club withdrew the civil court appeal. 
--- Tha Eastsydah 23:09, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is there a difference between the two? 

message: I really don't like the link that backs up this claim. Whether the page is hosted by rsssf.com or not the system that league table is based upon has no basis in anything. For instance see the FAQ at the bottom of the page:
:"1) Why you include all past Brazilian Competitions and don´t include past competitions of other countries?"
:"Answer: Because the Brazilian Championship is very younger than the other national leagues. If I don´t include these Brazilian competitions, the Brazilian teams' position in the ranking would be inferior of the reality."
I think that the list is basically meaningless in any factual sense. It would be better to just list that Juventus have won 11 official international titles, and give a reference for that. This "top 10" claim really has to go (even though I agree that they probably would be in a notional "top 10") as FIFA has never published such as list (as far as I know). I'll leave this discussion for a week or so, and then probably remove the claim again if no-one else has. aLii 11:10, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, maybe I should start the same conversation there. You have that point. However using the excuse of one bad article to say "well this article should be allowed to be just as bad" isn't very clever. List the numbers of titles and where Juve stands in the world (like you just did), but don't use that stupid rsssf.com reference - that's all I'm saying. aLii 07:05, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is removed from the Ajax page, see the talk page there. aLii 12:43, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Top 10 clubs in the World?

message: Who is happy with the total removal of the paragraph Juventus & The Italian Squad (see edit on 20:24 01-November-2006) and the amputation of paragraph Honours and Records (see edit on 20:26 01-November-2006)?  I suggest we re-instate both items unless most people agree with what was done. 70.24.95.4 18:18, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edits to 'Juventus & The Italian Squad' and 'Honours and Records' 

message: Some of the club's top stars did however remain loyal to the club, including goalkeeper Gianluigi Buffon, former Czech star Pavel Nedvěd, long-serving striker Alessandro Del Piero, Mauro Camoranesi and French striker David Trézéguet though Trézéguet had said that he was forced to stay at Juventus.
A source for the quote on Trézéguet's motivations for staying at Juve would be nice. Especially considering this article.
--Malibu Stacey 19:38, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aftermath of Calciopoli section 

message: I wonder if an updated injury report should be a subsection of the 'current year' section.  Trezeguet and others are out, but I don't know what's wrong with them and when they are expected back.  70.24.95.4 00:15, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Injury Report

message: Where can they be found?... I find its harder keeping all the Juve players, appearence & goals stats in correct shape without this. - Deathrocker 06:54, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Reliable Serie "B" player stats

message: What would be needed to be done to the article to have it elevated to "good article" status?.. obviously the history looks a bit better now. - The Daddy 13:13, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you want to know the exact criterions, see WP:GA?. IMHO, it needs broader historical coverage, more recent photos, and the whole history section needing to be sourced. Feel free also to follow the WikiProject Football article suggestions. I recently obtained U.S. Città di Palermo to be promoted as Good Article, so you can also have a look at that article to have an idea. --Angelo 13:30, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You might also want to format the references properly, although some GA reviewers may not be such a stickler for those, but for long term purposes it will be necessary. Chensiyuan 14:26, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

text: It will also need a wholesale re-write of some of the English used. Whole sections sound like an Italian article translated by machine into English, rather than written in English. e.g. "This nickname, globally famous, was derived by the standard of living of then founders, all young torinesi students, in the latest years of the nineteenth century", "Amongst the foreign players-world champions at the moment of their militancy in the Old Lady, the most famous is, probably, the French Zinédine Zidane (France 1998)." etc. - fchd 06:46, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Nice work, maybe it's the right time to consider Wikipedia:Peer review in order to see what others think about this article and improve it up to GA and (possibly) FA status. --Angelo 01:49, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: GA review?

message: Juventus have a large transfer kitty for this summer (around 70 million) so obviously there are going to be a lot of transfers over the summer. We should make sure there are reliable sources for them, and not just rumours to stop any false information. - The Daddy 09:50, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's not just a Juve issue. Last nite I reverted Iaquinta's signing from here (merely a rumour), and right now I had to revert Muntari's bid from Udinese to Portsmouth (unconfirmed). And keep in mind the Italian summer transfer market officially starts from July 1, so it is better to include these players into a "summer transfers" paragraph rather than the current squad list in order to avoid confusion. --Angelo 14:07, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Future Transfers 2007/2008

message: In history section slavia prague is called a russian club. this needs to be changed to czech. 
:Fixed. I changed it to Czechoslovakian, since the article refers to a match in the 1930s, when Czech Republic was part of that country. --Angelo 19:51, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Slavia Prague 

message: :Image:Juventus-FC.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 01:27, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Juventus-FC.png

message: I underwent an edit to the Calciopoli section as it read more like a Juventus fan's tirade against Inter Milan than a presentation of the truth. Juventus' vitriol was aimed at more than just at Inter- it was aimed, as well, at the clubs whose penalties were reduced, since their penalties were significantly not as severe as Juventus' continued to be. I'll agree that much of it probably should be written about Inter- because they received most of the "anti-verdict" press in the aftermath- but the section shouldn't *exclusively* be about Inter.-RomeW
World cup final record:
If I am not mistaken, 2006 world cup final was a record when 8 of the 22 players on the pitch were from one club, Juventus. (Cannavaro, Buffon, Del Piero, Camoranesi and Zambrotta for Italy and Thuram, Patrick Viera, and Trezeguet for France)
Sumeetnagar 04:04, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Calciopoli and Inter

message: From : http://www.juventus.com/it/news/detail.aspx?lml_language_id=0&trs_id=1606000&ID=12037
1 Buffon
2 Birindelli
3 Chiellini
4 Almiron
5 Zebina
6 Zanetti
7 Salihamidzic
8 Camoranesi
9 Iaquinta
10 Del Piero
11 Nedved
12 Belardi
14 Andrade
17 Trezeguet
18 Boumsong
19 Criscito
20 Palladino
21 Grygera
23 Nocerino
24 Olivera
25 Zalayeta
26 Blasi
28 Molinaro
30 Tiago
31 Novembre
32 Marchionni
33 Legrottaglie  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by YPChakree (talk • contribs). 
::err, retired numbers section are completely wrong, it has never been officially retired, and now iti is used by salihamidzic.59.167.23.216 13:56, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Juventus squard numbers 2007 - 2008 

message: Ok here it goes
*"After winning Serie B, it was promoted back to Serie A for the 2007–08 season". remove it and replace with Juventus
*Incorporate the text in brackets into the article
*"At present, Juventus play their home games at the Stadio Olimpico di Torino while their full-time stadium, Stadio delle Alpi is having structural changes and won't be ready until 2008".[2][11] rephrase the last bit of the sentence
*Notes and References heading doesn't meet WP:HEAD.
*They first won the league championship in 1905 ... they should be Juventus
*"Fiat owner Edoardo Agnelli gained control of the club in 1923, building a new stadium for the club". for the club is not needed
*Use WP:DASH for scores & year ranges.
*"though for the rest of the 1930s and the majority of the 1940s they were unable to recapture form" rephrase the bit at the end
*"This kind of form would be a sign of things to come in the future." POV unless it can be cited
*"That season saw Juventus awarded with the Golden Star for Sport Excellence to wear on their shirt after becoming the first Italian side to win ten league titles, also Sivori became the first ever player at the club to win the European Footballer of the Year." break this done into two sentences
*"The following season they beat out Fiorentina" remove out
*"Boniperti retired in 1961, he retired as the all-time top scorer at the club, with 182 goals in all competitions; a club record which would last for 45 years." needs a citation
*"The latter of which was won under Giovanni Trapattoni, the man who would help the club's domination continue on in the early part of the 1980s". cite this or remove
*"Juventus is the only club to have players from their club winning the award in four consecutive years". are not is
*"The following year, Lippi was appointed as Italy's head coach, bringing an end to one of the most fruitful managerial spell in Juventus' history". needs a citation
*"Since 2004, Fabio Capello had taken over the club, and lead them to two more Serie A titles" rephrase the sentence
*"But during May 2006, they ... replace they with Juventus
*"s well as been stripped of the two titles won under Capello" replace been with being
*"Many high key players were sold (including Fabio Cannavaro) however, other big name players remained to help the club return. remove high and specify where they are returning too
* "bianconeri" this should be in italics
*Put the lists of presidents and managers into a table
*Club statistics and records needs a few more citations
*"Juventus have played in black and white striped shirts, with white shorts (sometimes black shorts) since 1903. Originally, they played in pink shirts with a black tie, the father of one of the players made the earliest shirts, but continual washing faded the colour so much that in 1903 the club sought to replace them". POV unless cited
*Colours, badge and nicknames needs more citations
*"Juventus ultras have good relationships with Piacenza, Ado Den Haag and Legia Warsaw fans and have several rivalries, two of which are highly significant. The first is with local club Torino, they compete in the Derby della Mole (Derby of Torino) together; this rivalry dates back to 1906 when Torino was founded by former Juve members. The other most significant rivalry is with Internazionale; matches between Juventus and Inter are referred to as the Derby d'Italia (Derby of Italy). Up until the 2006 Serie A match-fixing scandal, which saw Juventus relegated, the two were the only Italian clubs to have never played below Serie A. Notably the two sides are the most supported in Italy, the rivalry has intensified since the later part of the 1990s.
Notable Old Lady supporters are the spinto tenor Luciano Pavarotti, the French racing driver Jean Alesi, the prelate of the Roman Catholic Church Tarcisio Bertone, the singer and songwriter Eros Ramazzotti and the Mayor of Rome Walter Veltroni."  needs citations
I'm going to put the article on hold, once these changes are made I can then hopefully pass the article. NapHit 15:04, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the review. I've started to deal with some and have put a done tag next to ones which are completed. If you could help out with the ones which you thought needed a different phrasing, then please do. - The Daddy 00:03, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: OK everything on the list has been seen to now. - The Daddy 18:05, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well done the article is now GA standard NapHit 12:25, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: GA Review Comments