Talk:Kannada/Archive 2

message: The article states, "The first record on Kannada language is traced to Emperor Ashoka's Brahmagiri edict dated 230 BC.[3][4]", but it is not clear whether it is based on one word "Isala" or many words and linguistic structure. Reference 3, says, "The word Isila found in Ashokan inscription (called Brahmagiri edict from Karnataka) meaning throw an arrow is a Kannada word indicating Kannada was a spoken language in 3rd century BCE (Dr. D.L. Narasimhachar in Kamath 2001, p5)". The word Isila would mean sending out an arrow in Tamil and I can also quote many related words in Tamil. How was it proven that it was Kannada, especially when there is no independent evidence for the existence and linguistic structure of Kannada in 3rd century BCE. Or are there literary works belonging to 3rd century BCE?--Aadal 18:20, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Dineshkannambadi, don't you think that claiming a doubtful word of Kannada origin and based on that a claim that the epigraphical evidence for Kannada (the epigraphical evidence is not in Kannada language) points to 230 BCE, you are misleading people to think Kannada is from BCE 230 period? While the literary evidence points to more like ~900 CE? Please understand that I'm not disbeleiving that Kannada as a language could have existed during 230 BCE, but on the other hand it could just as well be a version of some other language (dravidian or dravidian-aryan combination). How is it asserted that it is Kannada language in BCE 230, when there is no other compelling evidence around that date? The same comments apply to the Greek drama and the claim of "influencing other cultures". This looks like a hype to me. For the sake of accuracy these may have to be modified, in my opinion.--Aadal 22:17, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Your opinion needs historical support. Please find a historian to argue that the 230BC word isila is not a Kannada word, we can go from there. Untill then. cheers!!Dineshkannambadi 11:50, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I have added a reference, which speaks on extinction of letters "rh" and "lh" (ṛa and ḷa) and it's similarity in articulation to Tamil and Malayalam. -- Naveen (talk) 04:09, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you! --Aadal 04:26, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Asoka's Inscription

message: It is good stuff to have in this artilce, but I've added a few tags since it is not clear to me, as reader, on what basis this assertion of 13th century is made and what were the reasons. How was it determined that the letters 'rh', 'lh (zh) the articulation was similar to Tamil and Malayalam. Who and why was these letters replaced by  ರ (ra) and ಳ (La)? Also about another letter vyanjana (consonant), are there some evidences that this was prevalent only in Dakshina Kannada district). Why was this replaced? What role did it play. Any information would make it more informative. Right now it leaves a confusing and puzzling picture for a reader.  --Aadal 23:34, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have added a reference, which speaks on extinction of letters "rh" and "lh" (ṛa and ḷa) and it's similarity in articulation to Tamil and Malayalam. -- Naveen (talk) 04:09, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you! --Aadal 04:26, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extinct Kannada letters 

message: In the infobox there is a quote for the rank from Encarta, but the same Encarta gives 
a number 35+ million for the population. Many other sources give numbers less than 44m. It is not clear how the numbers 64m and 55m are arrived at. --Aadal 03:15, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This site could be used as reference too. Praveen 21:55, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Population Numbers

message: I gave the page number (p.11) in Prof. Hart's book where the assessments by I. Mahadevan and C.J. Chelliah's are reported. It is not I who is determining that Sastri's comment is invalid. See Hart's book. Editor KNM is repeatedly re-inserting Tamil in the list where the 'magic wand' comment of KAN is  used as a reference phrase. If it pleases you and gives you false pleasure do keep it. But it is not a correct view and glaringly wrong in the case of Tamil. --Aadal 03:45, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: KAN is a respected historian, but what is quoted in the article is not a fact. The 'magic wand' comment is not a scientific position but his biased opinion, what we would call here POV. As I said, do keep that statement and sure it will reflect on the quality of content and the calibre of the article.--Aadal 01:38, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That statement is used in the citation only to sum up KAN's contention.  If you want an elaboration of his position, you would have to read his book.  We obviously cannot type the whole book out for your sake in the citation.  What has been included in the citation captures KAN's position on the matter succinctly.  Thats all. Sarvagnya 01:48, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As I said enjoy it :) If there are seriously differing views, I believe WP requires to state both positions, but I'm not going to insist on it. --Aadal 02:39, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: K.A. Nilakandasastri's (KAN) comment

message: Hello! I have moved everything which I thought belonged to year 2006 into /Archive 1. If there was a discussion which was still active, please move it back.
Also, the /Archive 1 is already full. In case of new archives, please create /Archive 2.--Scheibenzahl 14:20, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Moved to Archive

message: Hi! I would like to learn Kannada. Please redirect me to some good sites/books.--Scheibenzahl 14:22, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Learning material

message: There has a recent controversy where Vaddaradhaane which was quoted 900AD after Kaviraja marga is dated back to 450 AD by Govinda pai.Can anyone give more info on this if you know?
Nrupatunga 15:13, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Is vaddaradhaane wrongly Dated? 

message: I had read that Kannada has influenced Marathi to the extend that it has many of the retroflex sounds as well as words that are derived from Kannada. I did not see any information about it in this article Taprobanus 19:19, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you have the correct citations and sources for this please bring it forward and we can request an admin to insert the relavent info into the article, considering its locked right now.Dineshkannambadi 19:44, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No I don’t, that was when I was in the University, I read in a journal article about linguistics. I still remember that retroflex sounds such as Zha in Marathi were a borrowing from Kannada as well as some common words such as Tayi.(I am going by memory here)  So there is credible research articles about this already available, if we know where to look. JSTOR might be a good search location.  Taprobanus 21:44, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I've come across this before in an interesting book. Unfortunately, this was way back in 2001 in Sivan Chetty Garden govt. library in Bangalore. If any of you are looking for rare sources please visit this library and hunt down the kannada section. There are atleast 3 books written by various authors which are eye-openers. One of them talked about how several names in maharashtra can be traced back to their original old kannada forms. (example such as "groundnuts are kadaLekAy in both marathi and kannada" are nice to know :) - Nareshov 22:13, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Kannada influence on Marathi

message: Should we add at the top "Not to be confused with Canada"? Because when I first saw the name, I thought it was some kind of Canadian native language. Mouse is back 19:02, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Once it's unprotected... 

message: The statement that Telugu script is dervied from Kannada script is a gross distortion of facts and truth. The very references cited in the article give a different version.
The origin of Telugu script lies in the Asokan Brahmi script written on the urn found from Bhattiprolu stupa which was older than Satavahana times. Satavahanas used this script and spread it over Maharashtra and Karnataka regions which they ruled for about 400 years. The strong resemblance of modern Thai, Laos, Javanese and Balinese scripts to Telugu script is because of the spread of proto-Telugu script from coastal Andhra to east Asia along with Buddhism (from Ghantasala and Masulipatnam ports). The Chalukayas, originally hailing from Rayalaseema (Kadapa-Kurnool) region of Andhra Pradesh, used the script to write Telugu and Kannada languages. The script is known to historians as Telugu-Kannada script. One may refer to the displays about the evolution of scripts in National Museum in Delhi. To brand the script as 'Old Kannada' or 'hale Kannada' is a biased distortion of history. The earliest evidence of a Dravidian (proto-Telugu) language being written in Brahmi script brought by Buddhists, was found in Bhattiprolu in the heartland of Andhra country. The reasoning given by me for the spread of the script to Kannada-speaking areas is totally scientific and logical. All Kannada historians know that Adikavi Pampa and his brother were Telugu Brahmins of ancient Kammanadu (same region as Bhattiprolu) who embraced Jainism, sought the patronage of Chalukyan kings and wrote the earliest literary works of Kannada language. Can anyone deny that the script of the mother tongue of Pampa did not influence their contributions to Kannada? It is only unfortunate that no work of Telugu literature of that time was discovered. Some Users were insistent that Telugu script originated from Kannada scipt, which is absolutely devoid of reason and rationale. Historians and archaeologists always used the words "Old Telugu-Kannada" script. Some enthusiasts insist on using the words "Old Kannada" or "Hale Kannada", which I feel is not right. Now, let us see the reference (http://www.engr.mun.ca/~adluri/telugu/language/script/script1d.html) cited in the article. It is absolutely clear from Figures T1a and T1b in the reference as to how Telugu-Kannada script evolved from Asokan Brahmi script of Bhattiprolu. Hence, the sentence about the origin of Telugu script should be modified. Kumarrao 06:27, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: May be Indian history books have to be re-written... Kumarrao, please bring some scholarly evidence to the table to discuss about this rather than some website written by some obscure person who contradicts himself in his own articles -- Amarrg 12:58, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Distortion of truth

message: Dear Amarrg, It is the same reference which Mr Gnanapiti always cites to revert my edits. Does the reference become authentic only for Kannada users?Kumarrao 18:23, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Some confrontation on edits happening in one article cannot be used as a basis to distort facts in another article. If you have any issues in the Telugu article, it is prudent for you to resolve issues in that article's talk page. BTW, you are talking about conscience in most of your dicussions, question your conscience on whether the citation you have put forth is a reliable one or not. Even after so many days you have not been able to put forth another citation that would substantiate your arguments. So lets not edit-war on this trivial citation and please resolve your dispute on Telugu in it's talk page. Thanks -- Amarrg 07:26, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Same Reference

message: 1.Can you tell me which fact has been distorted by me?
2.I made an input in the article with proper citation. Is it wrong?
3. Scores of Kannada related articles in Wiki refer to blogs, webpages, ameturish historians etc., (E.g. Jyotsna Kamath's Potpourri; www.ourkarnataka.com; www.prabhu50g.com; www.kamat.com etc.,). Kannada history articles copiously quote two authors viz., Kamat and Arthikaje. The former got his book published by a local publisher. The latter writes history in a website on Karnataka. By which standard they become authoritative historians?
4.On the other hand, the website I refer belong to a well-known lingusitand scgolar of Dravidian language scripts.
5. When I question your conscience I question your hypocrisy too? Kumarrao 15:35, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Reply

message: Where text begins with "Reverend Ferdinand Kittel...":
Reverend Ferdinand Kittel has also written a book on Kannada grammar called "A Grammar of the Kannada Language: Comprising the Three Dialects of the language"
The purpose is to replace the long reference URL in notes with a reference template that links to this URL, so that the result would look like this:
:Reverend Ferdinand Kittel has also written a book on Kannada grammar called "A Grammar of the Kannada Language: Comprising the Three Dialects of the language"
===A note would look like this:===
:
— instead of a long URL in text which creates a horizontal scroll bar (in a 1024x768 resolution). -BStarky 06:55, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggested Code improvements on notes: 

message: :
— instead of a long URL in text which creates a horizontal scroll bar (in a 1024x768 resolution). -BStarky 06:55, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: A note would look like this:

message: Wow. I didn't know an article on the front page could be protected, not that it matters much to me. Maybe that restriction only applies to Today's Featured Article? 
Anyways, I think that, since the pronunciations are similar, Canada might ought to be disambiguated with this language. And I am curious, is there any posibility that the two words might be related? Or are they just convergent?
-- trlkly 09:07, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Front page/disambig with Canada