Talk:Mike Bickle (minister)

message: I think the page I linked to is pretty clear that "Self-published books, zines, websites, and blogs should never be used as a source for material about a living person, unless written or published by the subject of the article." Never seems strong and does not seem to distinguish between primary and secondary sources. If you are referring to primary and secondary in terms of importance, it does seem problematic that so many of the citations are secondary in nature. If you are using it in the sense of primary sources being written by the subject and secondary sources being written about the subject then the sources by Mr. Bickle are acceptable and the self-published sources by others about Mr. Bickle do not seem to satisfy Wikipedia's standard of "reliable sources." The article previously linked is quite strong in saying that "Editors should remove any contentious material about living persons that is unsourced, relies upon sources that do not meet standards specified" and further "There seems to be a terrible bias among some editors that some sort of random speculative 'I heard it somewhere' pseudo information is to be tagged with a 'needs a cite' tag. Wrong. It should be removed, aggressively, unless it can be sourced. This is true of all information, but it is particularly true of negative information about living persons." The point here is that the wikipedia standard is to aggressively remove information and citations unless they can be firmly established. This is emphasized numerous times in the literature especially due to laws concerning libel. It seems the policy of Wikipedia is that unless a reliable source (not self-published) can be cited the information needs to be removed agressively, especially if it is contentious. Furthermore, in response to a previous comment, the presence of information or a citation elsewhere in wikipedia does not establish it as verifiable or reliable.
Additionally, it looks like the article by Mr. Gibson is also self-published.
21:05, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use of Reliable Sources in Biographies of Living Persons 

message: *Keep: If article creator can greatly improve sight. I'll will gladly work on this page, if no one else does, in the next two days to add notability, third party-references, and reason for inclusion to the wiki database. Mike Bickle is very well known author, Christian leader, possible cult leader, has had plenty of coverage on Christian TV, news, magazines, other books..A quick Google search will show you that. He also runs a yearly conference of over 20,000 students. Very notable outside of his congregation.....I agree this article is a mess and needs a lot of work. I would appreciate a couple days to get it done.Travisharger 12:57, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Disputing PROD-Concern 

message: I believe the following section should be removed and possibly others.
"As a lifelong missiologist, I cannot help but think that the landscape of humanity will drastically change when the body of Christ actually becomes a house of prayer. Mike Bickle has risked it all to convince us of this fact. I heartily recommend this amazing work!" Dr. C. Peter Wagner, Wagner Leadership Institute 
It is NOT encyclopaedic, the person quoted has no notability (no Wiki article). Are we to quote every Tom, Dick or Harry who has an opinion on Bickle?
The article has been extensively edited by coi single purpose accounts too. TeapotgeorgeTalk 11:13, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Hear hear. JosiahHenderson (talk) 20:15, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

text: C. Peter Wagner has a substantial influence in the charismatic world, which is very relevant to the topic at hand. He's not a random Tom, Dick, or Harry as you put it. DavidPesta (talk) 02:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Endorsement section 

message: Dr. Peter Wagner does have a wiki page.  This can be found at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._Peter_Wagner.  The endorsements added are to contrast the criticism in the previous section thus helping to provide balance and neutrality to this article.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vertigo58 (talk • contribs) 15:35, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added the correct link to the endorsement section thank you for your help.TeapotgeorgeTalk 16:37, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  C. Peter Wagner Endorsement 

message: This article has been extensively edited by coi single purpose accounts. TeapotgeorgeTalk 22:24, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, and the tag should not be removed again. Doc talk 22:29, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conflict of interest 

message: I am 65 years old and in my lifetime I have come across a couple of scams that seemed suspiciously similar. 
I am a Jew. When I was a teenager there was a pamphlet going around offering Jewish youth membership in a "fraternity" called Mu Sigma. It appealed to the feeling of being left out and excluded as Jews from the frat scene. My Jewish friends and I rejected joining the "frat" because we didn't feel left out of anything; we lived in a very well socio-economic and ethnically integrated neighborhood. We all had non-Jewish friends and did not want to join anything that left them out.
Years later, probably in the mid 1970's, in New York City there appeared a bunch of people wearing black capes and the Egyptian Ankh symbol around their necks. They were passing out leaflets trying to get people to join a "religion" called "The Way" (or something like that, to the best of my recollection) I took a pamphlet and read it. The text was very similar to the text in the Mu Sigma pamphlet I had read years before. I was appealing to people's feelings of being "left out" etc. And offered membership in a group that would be "warm and welcoming."
At that time I felt that the person or people behind this cult scheme were the same as the people who had tried to get Jewish teen boys to pay money to join a fraternity years before.
Now I have heard a story (on NPR) about a book written about an ultra-conservative Evangelical group called the International House of Prayer. And the fact that the initials are the same as the large pancake house (which seems like a sly joke) and the fact that there is a related group called "TheWay" or something like that really makes me harken back to the other cult-like scams I came across years ago. 
The only thing I can find out is that IHOP is that it is run by this guy, Mike Bickle. Yet I can find no biographical information on him that might tie him into these earlier ventures. For some reason, I "smell" a connection. How old is Bickle, where did he come from and what were his earlier games? Was he behind the Jewish fraternity scam? The good looking young girls in black capes with an ankh symbol (which was related to "free and open-sex" in the 70's) walking around Manhattan in the 70's? I would really like to know more about this guy.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chefhenry (talk • contribs) 14:02, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mike Bickle's biography or lack thereof 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title: Assessment comment

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The article currently says: In 1999, Bickle was fired from the church that he was pastoring, Metro Christian Fellowship, then a megachurch of over three thousand members. He then started the International House of Prayer (also known by its acronym IHOPKC).
This is footnoted with a  link to an article entitled "Round-the-clock prayer group trades riches for religion", which says: In 1999, he left his job as senior pastor of a 3,000-member church in Grandview, Mo., to set up an "International House of Prayer" where 12 teams of people pray around the clock for the world.
(I don't have access to the full source of the article, but this is in the introduction).
This clearly doesn't describe him as being fired. In addition, I can't find any information searching on the web that implies that he was fired.
So as far as I can see this is an unsourced claim. Could it be replaced with "Bickle stopped working for the church that he was pastoring"?
Davidfraser (talk) 19:40, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Was Mike Bickle really fired from Metro Christian Fellowship?