Talk:Earl of Orkney

message: Should Duke of Orkney even be listed here?  It doesn't have any tie to the earldom, as far as I know. Mackensen 00:31, 30 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: untitled

message: What lands did the earls of the 3rd creation originally possess? --Anglius 02:39, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Property

message: Why is Harald Maddadsson labelled among the Norse earls, when his father was in fact the Gaelic Mormaer of Atholl? Aren't dynasties normally regarded as ending through a male line? Surely the Scottish part should begin with him, no? - Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 13:41, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, but was he alligned with the Norwegian or the Scottish king? If he was alligned with the Norwegian king maybe that could explain it. Inge 16:08, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "Scottish" versus "Norse"

message: If we know the jarl of Orkney was Norwegian or a vassal of the King of Norway why not say so? The word Norse is equally Norwegian, Danish, Swedish, Icelandic, Faroese, and the people of the isles currently under Scottish control. To use it interchangeably with Norwegian will only increase confusion. Inge 16:19, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The earldom was unquestionaly "Norwegian" from 1195 onwards, since the Norwegian king appointed officials and interfered in the local government. Earlier than that the bonds were more nominal and mostly restricted to tribute. Wether the earls were ethnically Norwegian is rather dubious since they intermarred with the Gaelic nobility almost from the beginning. AFAIK Henry Sinclair was the first earl who spoke Scottish and the Sinclairs also abaondoned Norn as the administrative language. Fornadan (t) 18:35, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  There is no such language as "Scottish". I think you mean that the Sinclairs where the first Earls who spoke Lowland Scots, which is probably correct, as Harald Maddadsson, the Anguses and Strathearns came from a Gaelic background, and that language until the 16th century was referred to by the exonyn "Scottish". Anyways, the Orkney earldom is a Norse lordship which predates Harald Finehair, so is much more safely described as "Norse" than "Norwegian". - Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 20:21, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I see. Maybe it is best to keep the use of Norse in the first sentence. However I do want to correct you if the impression is that before the formal formation of the states the peoples of Norway, Sweden and Denmark were one entity called Norse. The notions of a separate Norwegian, Swedish (including/excluding the Geats) and Danish people existed before the formation of the states. So to automatically shift from Norse to Norwegian in 872 might not be correct. Inge 20:51, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I won't dispute this for the mo, but I'd be interested to know what your evidence is. - Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 20:54, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Norwegian or Norse 

message: The present Earl lives in Canada but this seems to be the extent of the qualification for this page's being included in the Canadian peers category. I think his page belongs there but not this one. Safe to remove it then? Andrei Iosifovich (talk) 20:27, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Canadian

message: I've dropped an essay into Wikipedia:WikiProject Scottish Islands/Origins of the Uí Ímair and the Earls of Orkney and comments/edits are more than welcome. Some of the reasons it is not (yet) an article are explained on the talk page - I also think it needs some input from those much more familiar with the relevant periods of Norse and Irish history than I am. Ben MacDui 15:48, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origins 

message: The dates in the list are essentially unsourced at present. I'm most interested in the early period, which is largely a matter of conjecture. Nonetheless a sourced date is better than a Wikipedian's guess. I am intending to compile a list here and see where it leads to. As the sources might be contradictory I don't see much point in amending the article list until some kind of clarity emerges.
* Ragnvald Eysteinsson, Earl of Møre, fl. 865–890Muir (2005) Preface: Genealogical table of the Earls of Orkney.
* Sigurd Eysteinsson (Sigurd the Mighty), to c. 874
* Guthorm Sigurdsson, 874-875
* Hallad Rognvaldsson, c. 891–c. 893
* Torf-Einarr Rognvaldsson, d. 910Johnston, A.W. (July 1916) "Orkneyinga Saga". JSTOR/The Scottish Historical Review. Vol. 13, No. 52. p. 393. Retrieved 27 January 2014.
* Arnkel Torf-Einarsson, jointly with Erlend and ThorfinnClouston (1918) p. 15 910–954
* Erlend Torf-Einarsson, jointly with Arnkel and Thorfinn 910–954
* Thorfinn Torf-Einarsson (Thorfinn Skull-Splitter), jointly with Erlend and Arnkel 910–954, alone 954–963Crawford (1987) p. 54
* Arnfinn Thorfinnsson c. 963–?
* Havard Thorfinnsson, c. ?–?
* Ljot Thorfinnsson, ?–c. 980 
* Hlodvir Thorfinnsson, c. 980–991Muir (2005) p. 27
* Sigurd Hlodvirsson (Sigurd the Stout), 991–1014Woolf (2007) p. 243, quoting the Annals of Ulster.
* Sumarlidi Sigurdsson,  jointly with Brusi and Einar, 1014–c. 1016Muir (2005) pp. 44-45, "he died in his bed not long after his father's death" and is not referred to in an incident dated to 1018.
* Brusi Sigurdsson,  jointly with Einar, Sumarlidi and later with Thorfinn, 1014–c. 1031Muir (2005) p. 47 "Earl Brusi died in the early 1030s".
* Einar Sigurdsson (Einar Wry-mouth), with Brusi and Sumarlidi, 1014–1026
* Thorfinn Sigurdsson (Thorfinn the Mighty), with Brusi and Rögnvald, 102?–104?, alone to c.1064Muir (2005) p. 53
* Rögnvald Brusason, with Thorfinn, c. 1037? –c. 1046
References
Notes
Footnotes
I have turned the above into a referenced table and hope to add it soon, replacing the existing list. Ben MacDui 17:46, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dates 

message: Heinrik Haraldsson is on this list but would seem to be bogus - he was apparently Earl of Ross. Ben MacDui 17:46, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Heinrik Haraldsson