Talk:Ocean Grove, New Jersey

message: A photo of the Great Auditorium would be nice, as would one of the tent homes.--Srleffler 05:29, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone provided one, but it's been removed, having no license. Rich Farmbrough 21:14 3  July 2006 (GMT).
 images added JGHowes talk -  19:31, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Photo

message: As far as adding this to the article is concerned, the part that really requires solid, reliable sources (that is, mainstream books or major newspapers such as the New York Times or Philadelphia Inquirer) is attributing Ocean Grove's resurgence in real estate values to him.
If the enthusiasm is trimmed to just state factually Ralph has become an unofficial mascot in recent years and was depicted on the beach badge by the OGCMA, or something along those lines, that probably would pass muster with the editors here. Also, is there a better image? The one uploaded is very grainy. JGHowes talk -  19:05, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Ralph the Fisherman" 

message: I would like to add the following to the site, but would like your opinion first:Bilbobag (talk) 17:07, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Following up on an invitation to comment left on my talk page.  I think that it would appear that Ralph the Fisherman is perhaps a significant landmark to locals in Ocean Grove, and there do appear to be reliable source that indicate not only that the monument exists, which would not necessarily be sufficient, but also that such a monument is notable to the point that it is worthy of mention.  The monument is even the subject of a book: .  However, it should not be given undue weight in this article.  I would say that a 3-4 sentance note under a section on notable landmarks would be appropriate.  Such a section could also incorporate information on the Auditorium and the Historic District.  However, the above copy seems a bit too "unencyclopedic" in its tone, and if added to the article as-is, would probably be giving undue weight to the landmark itself.  Let me take a stab at rewriting it... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 17:19, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Copy for Ocean Grove page 

message: A landmark of local importance, Ralph the Fisherman was erected on the ruined remains of the Ocean Grove Fishing Pier by local residents.  The pier had been destoyed by a winter storm in 1992, and two local residents climbed one of the remaining pylons to place a dummy of a fisherman.  The dummy became a local attraction, and when the pier was rebuilt in 1993 the dummy became a permanent fixture on it.  Today, Ralph—who's name is an acronym for "Rising Above the Long Pier of Hope"— is an important symbol of the community.  Ralph has even become the subject of a children's book.
*Now, I think the above version carries a much more encyclopedic tone.  I don't have access to the specific articles that Bilbobag does, but it would appear from the title of the Inquirer article that it discusses the destruction of the pier and not the fisherman per se, but I could be wrong about that.  Before we add anything, we need reliable sources that:
**a) tell the story about Ralph and
**b) clearly show that he is a symbol of the community
*What think you all?  --Jayron32.talk.contribs 17:19, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Ralph the Fisherman

message: Thanks for the help and the re-write. I believe a photo of the 2002 beach badge, the first ever in the 100+ year history of this town to include the image of a fictional character, which was issued by a quasi-Governamental organization (The Ocean Grove Camp Meeting Assoc.) "clearly shows that he is a symbol of the community." The badge shows his image, The words "Ralph", and the words "Ocean Grove". I'm attaching a copy of the photo here 
Image:2002 Ocean Grove 'Ralph' beach badge.jpg|The 2002 Ocean Grove Beach badge
  
I have other photos that show him sitting on the fishing pier, as he has for over 17 years, and others showing him numerous of the town's 4th of July parades. In the parades, he is on the float of The Ocean Grove Fishing Club.
Bilbobag (talk) 23:04, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Cool!  The pic will accompany the section well, but it doesn't really count as a source.  What we are looking for here is things like newspaper articles, books, magazine articles, that sort of thing.  See what you can dig up in that vein, they are vital! --Jayron32.talk.contribs 03:36, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ralph The Fisherman sources 

message: Tent city should get more coverage as it is unique, interesting, and a possibly useful style of architecture.  It should be expanded by a native who can get interior shots too.  Winter and Summer shots of the same house.  I really think people might find inspiration for their own houses.  —Preceding unsigned comment added byGeo8rge (talk) 00:33, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tent City 

message: I think this portion is too long and not that historically important to Ocean Grove, to the US or NJ but it really is a store unfolding all over not just Ocean Grove.  If it is important maybe it should be combined with an article on gay civil unions, or even get it's own article.Geo8rge (talk) 00:32, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Civil union controversy 

message: It goes beyond the civil union controversy. Recently the Neptune school graduation ceremony almost didn't happen because of all the religious iconography present inside and outside the auditorium: see http://www.app.com/article/20110525/NJNEWS/305250114/Neptune-ACLU-compromise-high-school-graduation-Great-Auditorium. While looking at the pictures from the Auditorium I felt that the cross outside was aesthetically and architecturally out of place, and wondered whether it was a late addition. The article mentions that the **illuminated** cross was added after the end of 2nd world war. Did a normal cross exist before that date? I was able to find a postcard from 1903 that shows that the cross in the front was originally not there, around the same time when the owners got tax exemption for the boardwalk and beachfront as public venues: see two post cards at middle of page at http://www.cardcow.com/viewall/66106/. There are also several post cards that proof that until around 1945 there was no cross there.  My understanding is that with the development of the beachfront into a neighborhood, there was a need for a new church so the auditorium was “adapted” to that use after 50 years of mixed religious/secular use. There is no problem with this history as long as the owners recognize that it is now a church, and refuse doing civil/secular ceremonies in there to avoid going against the Constitution. 75.50.59.26 (talk) 14:47, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: This has been ignored for a few years, but it shouldn't be. The lesbian pavilion thing is clearly just one part of the story. MilesMoney (talk) 04:27, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Controversies about federal funds being used for a religious establishment 

message: Michelle Davidson is an English Channel swimmer. See http://www.dover.uk.com/channelswimming/swimmers  which lists Channel Swimmers.  As to meeting Wiki requirements, as stated on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:LISTPEOPLE#Lists_of_people, "A person may be included in a list of people if all the following requirements are met:
The person meets the Wikipedia notability requirement. An exception to this requirement may be made if the person is famous for a specific event, the notability requirement need not be metItalic text. If a person in a list does not have a Wikipedia article about them, a citation (or link to another article) must be provided to: a) establish their membership in the list's group; and b) to establish their notability on either BLP1E or BIO1E.
The person's membership in the list's group is established by reliable sources.
  
Based on this Ms. Davidson is famous for not just a single specific event, (being one of only 1341 people in the history of the world, who has swam the English Channel). She is also notable for being one of only 84 swimmers to have accomplished the Triple Crown of swimming 1) swimming the 21 miles across the English Channel, 2) swimming 20.2 miles across the Cataline Channel in southern CA, and 3) swimming 28.5 miles around the island of Manhattan (see http://www.triplecrownofopenwaterswimming.com/2010/08/triple-crown-of-open-water-swimming.html and http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/lane9/news/OpenWater/30346.asp). These are 3 notable accomplishments, the most well known being the English Channel swim. Each of these is linked to an article or reliable source. Thus she meets Wiki's exception. Second since she is being included in a list of Notable People, does not need an article about them. 
I would therefore include her in the list. If you find this objectionable, I would then offer to include her as a nationaly known US swimmer, whose accomplishments (in addition to the 3 mentioned above) include more than 23 wins in swimming events, winning the US Lifeguard Association's "Iron Woman" competition, and numerous other swimming and/or surf kayaking awards over the past 18 years. I'll await comments before making any changes. Bilbobag (talk) 21:11, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Michelle Davidson, Ocean Grove resident and English Channel 

message: Response to third opinion request:
I personally agree with Safehaven86's edits. The section as it was before was a tad too long, not to mention that all the extra statements were unsourced. Also, the fact that that case had so much information while the other cases mentioned didn't have nearly as much info kind of wanders into WP:UNDUE territory. If anyone really thinks the information about the latter case needs to be expanded, try creating a separate article about it. Erpert WHAT DO YOU WANT??? 07:07, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I remember you. You're not neutral. MilesMoney (talk) 07:32, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Erpert and SafeHaven are correct, despite your ad hominem attack.Two kinds of pork (talk) 15:48, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, to be fair, MM, although I might have commented in the past about a situation that you were involved in, I have never had a dispute with you specifically. But since that aspect appears to be iffy, I'll recuse myself from such situations in the future. Erpert WHAT DO YOU WANT??? 18:40, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. MilesMoney (talk) 03:19, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Third opinion 

message: I added information about 4 major fires since 2010. Why did you cut it out alan?  surfer Sufferingsurfer (talk) 20:37, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  fires 

message: Alansohn eliminated all my CORRECT info on how og GOT FEMA money in 2014 and how 4 fires that I dated and gave details are MUCH worse to homeowners than what Sandy did to boardwalk. Everyone who lives in og knows this. This fool apparently has no clue. Sufferingsurfer (talk) 22:01, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  fires and fema 

message: Perdita Buchan?  David Spelman?
Are they notable?  Did they live in OG for more than 5 minutes?  Are they living in OG now? Sufferingsurfer (talk) 00:43, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable people 

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thread_title:  External links modified