Talk:Dogtanian and the Three Muskehounds

message: Can it be right that the sequel was released 10 years before the original was broadcast?
:oops, fixed! violet/riga 08:51, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Sequel release date

message: I've redirected this page to Dogtanian and the Three Muskehounds
--NeilEvans 22:31, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: redirect

message: I am failing to see how Dogtanian & the Muskehounds is an anime. The art style is far from anime, and it was also co-produced with a BRB which are a Spanish animation company. Classing Dogtanian as an anime is wrong as it's  cartoon.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.229.163.64 (talk) 14:42, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anime misconceptions 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This is going to be quite a lengthy topic, but I have written up some information regarding the theme song's background. Do note that this is circumstantial evidence (collected mainly from analysing songwriting/production credits and comparisons to other songs) so I haven't edited the main page, but based on what I have collected here I do believe this evidence to be accurate so I have posted it here on the talk page so people can at least see it as well as the evidence to back up what I am saying:
- Although the series was Spanish and the theme song was written specifically for it, it appears the song was NOT written in Spanish originally. This can be figured out by looking at the songwriting credits on the various releases of the theme song in different languages; they reveal that the song was written by Guido and Maurizio De Angelis as well as Cesare De Natale, one of their regular lyricists, but with the exceptions of the Italian and earlier English lyrics (see below regarding the English words), all other versions credit additional outside lyricists for adapting the words into whatever language. This includes the Spanish version - the label outright states that the song was adapted into Spanish by Jesús Moll, and since the Spanish lyrics are officially listed as being adapted from something else by someone who was not involved with the 'actual' writing of the song, this means they must have been penned after the words had originally been written, therefore the song must not have originally been written in Spanish. The fact that no additional outside writers are credited on the Italian and earlier English lyrics very much indicates the song was written in those languages first, and it was those languages the three songwriters were directly involved with. Cesare De Natale is credited for writing lyrics for other songs in both Italian and English, and while he and Guido and Maurizio De Angelis were involved with some Spanish-language records, including as performers, none of them actually wrote the Spanish lyrics themselves - the songs would be handed over and someone else would adapt them into Spanish. Presumably it would have been easier for them (i.e. the Oliver Onions team) to write the song in languages they were more comfortable/familiar with, one of them being their native language, and then give it to someone else to adapt who was more familiar with whatever other language. On a side note, this is also the case with the songs from "Around the World with Willy Fog" (i.e. not written in Spanish originally but adapted into Spanish from Cesare De Natale's original lyrics by an outside lyricist, except there it was Luis Gómez Escolar who adapted the lyrics into Spanish).
- Although Ted Mather and his daughters Elissa and Hillary Mather are listed in the English end credits for singing the theme song, they are NOT who you hear in the opening titles. The actual performer of the English theme song is Christopher Laird - the English version's single release and the "Themes From Children's BBC" compilation, which both use the version you hear in the English version of the show, outright credit him as the performer, and if we compare the singing on the theme song to Christopher Laird's other songs it can be identified as the same voice (here is one example - the chorus in particular is a dead giveaway it's the same singer). So why would there be a discrepancy between the end credits and the physical release of the song over who is actually singing it? Upon closer inspection, it appears that the reason Ted Mather is credited in the show is because he had recorded an earlier version of the theme song that was ultimately unused and replaced with Christopher Laird's version, but the end credits were either made when Ted Mather's version was still in use and were never updated when the theme song was swapped out, or were made after the change but were based off outdated information regarding who sang it. In fact, the mysterious alternate version of the theme song that showed up on the iTunes and Amazon UK digital soundtracks is Ted Mather's unused earlier recording; this version uses Cesare De Natale's original English lyrics (later reused for "The Return of Dogtanian", where they were sung by Douglas Meakin) while Christopher Laird's version uses new lyrics he (Laird) wrote himself. Aside from referring to the end credits, Ted Mather can be identified as the performer of the alternate version through two ways: 1) if you slow it down by about 30% and compare the voice with that of the English "Willy Fog" songs, which Ted Mather is confirmed to be the singer of, they sound like the same singer (especially noticeable on the line "say en garde, be ready now"), and 2) the alternate version features some not-sped-up kids singing in unison with the sped-up lead vocal, and since it can be confirmed that Hillary and Elissa Mather, the two others listed in the end credits, were kids at the time (they both appeared together in a Kidsongs video a few years later), it must be them singing these bits here. Why the theme song was rerecorded and the English lyrics were rewritten is unclear; one thing that appears to be the case is that since Ted Mather's version refers to the main character as D'Artacan (as that was the name the composers and lyricist would have been working with during production), it must have been recorded prior to the character's name being anglicised to Dogtanian. Maybe this was partially the reason, as saying D'Artacan would have sounded out of place with the rest of the show in English? But then the theme song for "The Return of Dogtanian" shows that the character's anglicised name could very easily have been swapped in with the original English lyrics, so why rewrite the rest of them? Obviously this is speculation, but the identity of the singers on either version is something that can be confirmed.
- The adult backing vocals on the theme song are quite clearly sung by Guido and Maurizio De Angelis. I'm not 100% sure who is singing the child backing vocals, but I assume it's either Popitos or Benedetta Valentini, the lead vocalist on the Italian version of the theme song (also apparently related to Guido De Angelis' in-laws in some way but I'm not sure what relation she is exactly). Although the Italian version uses a completely different backing track to the Spanish and English versions and is in a different key, the same kind of backing vocals appear in it and, at least in the Italian version, they are quite clearly sung by the same voice as the Italian lead vocalist, plus it also features Guido and Maurizio De Angelis singing the same kind of backing vocals they do on the Spanish and English versions. The various backing tracks for the song as well as Guido and Maurizio De Angelis' backing vocals and the rest of the show's music were recorded in Rome, so it would make sense that the child backing vocals would have been recorded at this time as well before the song was sent off to Spain or wherever else, which would suggest it was Benedetta Valentini singing them. However, it is also possible that the child backing vocals were rerecorded for the Spanish release by Popitos and this got carried over to other versions of the song using that specific backing track. Either way, it definitely isn't Elissa and Hillary Mather singing them, especially since we have already established they sang on a totally different recording of the song to begin with.
- Not sure how relevant this is to the main article, but regarding the Popitos tie-in album to the series, at least some of the songs from it are adapted from existing unrelated Oliver Onions tracks, repurposed with Dogtanian-related lyrics to tie in with the show. This is something that happened on several other occasions with their songs (e.g. "S.O.S. Spazio 1999" was repurposed from the unrelated "Miss Robot" to serve as the end credits theme for the Italian broadcast of Space 1999's second season). The ones I recognise are "Juliet", which is adapted from "Movie Movie" from 1981, "Mi amigo Pom", which is adapted from "Fantasy" from 1982, and "Richelieu", which is adapted from "Bulibù" (though interestingly this one had already been adapted into Spanish, but as more of a direct translation of the Italian lyrics without any of the Dogtanian references, and this previous Spanish adaptation had been released before the Italian version by a couple of years despite the song being originally written in Italian; it was also this previous adaptation that erroneously showed up twice on the aforementioned iTunes soundtrack). One notable thing about the "Richelieu" song is that series creator Claudio Biern Boyd is credited for co-adapting it into Spanish (the previous adaptation I just mentioned was done by Luis Gómez Escolar, the same person who adapted the Willy Fog songs into Spanish). Another thing that is noticeable is that "Richelieu" and "Juliet" both use the same backing tracks (and backing vocals in the case of "Juliet") as the songs they are adapted from, whereas "Mi amigo Pom" is a total rerecording. The songs "Uno para todos y todos para uno" and "Unete a nosotros" are also listed as being adapted but from which songs I'm not sure, while the final three songs on the album are written by Spanish songwriters and are not adapted from anything. The single release doesn't list any production credits but the album solely credits Cesare De Natale as producer, but with the exceptions of the theme song, "Richelieu" and "Juliet", whose backing tracks were recorded in Italy, the other songs have a different 'sound' to them that I can't really put into words - you'd have to listen for yourself. I suspect that the rest of the backing tracks as well as all of Popitos' vocals (including on the aforementioned three songs) were recorded and produced in Spain (presumably at Estudios Belter, the recording studio established by Discos Belter, the label that released the album and Popitos' other material - Popitos are confirmed to have recorded there on another release), and I also suspect that Cesare De Natale's production credit on the album is really just for the backing tracks on those three songs while the production for Popitos' vocals and the remaining backing tracks was handled by someone at Estudios Belter who went uncredited; this is confirmed to be the case with the Spanish "Willy Fog" soundtrack (see the relevant link above - the album credits outright say that Mocedades' vocals were recorded, arranged and produced in Spain without the involvement of Cesare De Natale or Guido and Maurizio De Angelis, completely separate from the backing tracks that were recorded and produced in Italy, except there the Spanish crew are credited and these sessions were held at Estudios Kirios rather than Estudios Belter) so presumably it may well be the same here, except this time the separate Spanish production also involved the recording of backing tracks as well as vocals. Assuming this is the case, if I had to guess a possible uncredited producer for the remaining work on the album, my first guess would be Josep Llobell, as not only is he listed for production and/or technical work on other records made at Estudios Belter around that same time, including by Popitos as shown in the aforementioned link, but he is listed as a cowriter on the last two songs on the album under the pseudonym L. Price, so that shows he had some direct involvement with the album in at least some capacity. Obviously him being an uncredited producer on this album is just speculation on my part, but I do think he was at the very least there in the studio with Popitos when they were recording. 82.44.192.75 (talk) 19:35, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Theme song information