Talk:Diversity (business)

message: This article clearly explains and defines it subject, documents people who are working to make it happen, cites references etc. It does, however, lack one thing: evidence that diversity in business is financially beneficial for a business. Not simply claims, that it is a good practice, but evidence that it has been found to benefit a business. Until such evidence is provided, this article is about an ideological position. It deserves a Wikipedia article (as does the Flat Earth Society), but a topic of this magnitude, a topic with such a large following in society, deserves evidence.Pete unseth (talk) 00:12, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Just checking to see if any actual evidence has been cited that supports the positions espoused in this article, that diversity in the workforce has measurable benefits for businesses. No evidence yet.Pete unseth (talk) 23:04, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Once again wondering: does this diversity juggernaut have evidence and facts for fuel, or is it running on ideology? Wikipedia policies call for evidence to support articles, not merely ideology. With such a large following, somebody must have done some tests to show how diversity impacts business. Peacefully calling for evidence.Pete unseth (talk) 12:09, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Has anybody found any actual evidence that diversity helps businesses financially? There are businesses that provide consulting services about how to achieve diversity, but aside from these businesses making all their income off of diversity implementation, can anybody cite evidence that diversity benefits businesses financially? With all the attention paid to this topic, if diversity has solid, financially measurable benefits to businesses across the board, their ought to be evidence of this. Or is this merely an ideological stance that has become dogma by constant repetition in certain circles? Pete unseth (talk) 12:38, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Every couple of months for the last two years I've been looking to see if anybody has found and posted evidence that diversity can be shown to help businesses. I keep looking to see if somebody has shown that diversity increases production, employee retention, sales, workplace safety, or some other aspect of business that is measureable. The continuing lack of cited evidence should cause people to ponder the possibility that the claimed advantages of diversity in business may be only ideological. Or is "ideology" only what opponents believe? Pete unseth (talk) 18:08, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: After two years of calling for documented evidence that diversity helps a business financially, I have inserted a sentence into the article that notes this lack of evidence. I expect to be attacked by those who feel that facts and evidence are not needed when the ideological position is so loudly and widely proclaimed. Let them bring evidence, as I have repeatedly and politely requested. Gently, Pete unseth (talk) 21:28, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The last post here pointing out the lack of actual evidence of benefits from diversity in business is dated 2013. The article still cites no actual evidence that diversity benefits businesses in tangible ways. The article has lots of claims and many categories, but it stil fails to cite evidence that diversity helps businesses profit. Really?  If diversity actually benefits businesses, there should be studies that it decreases absenteeism, or improves product quality, or increases product quality, or something. Until the article cites results, this article merely states different ways of viewing and implementing an ideology. Pete unseth (talk) 18:03, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: The article presently includes this sentence: "The multicultural organization not only contains many different cultural groups or different genders, but it values this diversity. It encourages healthy conflict as a source of avoiding groupthink." It is an intellectual and logical leap to assume that cultural and gender diversity is basically the same as viewpoint diversity. This article echoes the common assumption that diversity is based on external characteristics. Do businesses ever work to hire people of different viewpoints? That would seem to be at least as important as diversity based on external characteristics. Does anybody know of research showing that some businesses deliberately work to create diversity based on viewpoint, rather than external characteristics? Pete unseth (talk) 20:50, 14 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I am amazed that some editor has not stepped forward to provide actual evidence of benefits to businesses by diversity. "Diversity" is widely claimed to benefit many things. If true, then there should be evidence that can be cited. Or, if there is no evidence that diversity benefits businesses, then this article is about an ideology, only. Pete unseth (talk) 21:29, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: This article needs to clearly state and give evidence to show if diversity helps businesses in measurable ways. Or, it needs to say that there is no benefit to businesses. Right now, it's lots of ways to describe it, but there is no evidence that it benefits businesses. Pete unseth (talk) 21:48, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Dec. 27, an editor claimed to have posted a "link to an article showing the link between inclusive leadership and team performance". The article only vaguely referred to a "survey of over 245 global organizations, as well as over 60 client interviews". It was from a website MyDisabilityJobs.com. If there is solid evidence that can be cited to show that diversity actually improves the results of businesses, then this is the type of evidence I have long called for. Many write about and are paid to talk about how to do diversity in businesses and they make strong claims for its benefit. If diversity is good for businesses, then the type of actual evidence hinted at would be the beginning of actual evidence in this article. Trying to document whether the emperor has any clothes. After years nine years of calling for evidence, it may soon appear. Pete unseth (talk) 01:19, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: This article still lacks data to support the claims being made. The first three citations are websites from people who advocate and consult on workplace diversity. But the article still needs evidence that shows whether workplace diversity actually benefits workplaces. Evidence could include such quantifiable factors as lower absenteeism, employee retention, less pilferage, increased productivity, higher product quality, etc. I'm sure studies have been done by now, so they should be cited, whether positive or negative. In it's current form, the article is mostly about an ideology. Pete unseth (talk) 21:13, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Everything but evidence

message: In the article are many citations to to one book, Understanding and Managing Diversity (5th ed.), by Harvey & Allard. The book has 51 chapters, by different authors. Citing a book in a general way like this suggests that editors have not actually read the material to cite a specific passage or chapter. The book probably has very relevant material to cite, but citing an entire book in this manner is poor scholarship. For those editors who are interested in the topic, here is an opportunity to improve this article. Pete unseth (talk) 20:41, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vague citations to a book with 51 separate chapters 

message: The article currently contains the following: "The workplace diversity can be categorized into single-gender and mix genders." This seems to be about a narrow view of "diversity", but it may not fit the rest of the paragraph as it currently stands. I hope an editor who understands the intended meaning can improve this paragraph. Pete unseth (talk) 01:31, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gender or other qualities? 

message: There is now a call to merge this with a broader DEI article. I suggest we keep this one separate. Those advocating diversity in business face a simpler metric to show that diversity in business benefits companies: document higher profits, lower absenteeism, less pilferage, etc. Pete unseth (talk) 18:28, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Responding to call to merge with broad DEI article 

message: Defining "diversity" is often taken for granted. The article uses the term over 60 times. But it is not clear if all of the examples use the term with the same meaning. It is clear that some use it referring to sex, ethnicity, and race. The phrase "cultural diversity" is also used. However, there is no place where it specifically means diversity of viewpoint. Some editors assume that viewpoint is largely predictable by sex, ethnicity, race. That is, some assume that most members of such categories think alike. (Such a view is sexist and racist.) Are there any writings about viewpoint diversity in business? For example, are there studies of a diversity of employees' religions in a business, a diversity of political views, a diversity of socio-economic class, a diversity of ages? These characteristics would seem to affect the work environment as much or more than externally visible characteristics. But they are not so easy to mark on a checklist of "diversity" categories at a business. How has the DEI industry addressed such less-visible characteristics? Pete unseth (talk) 20:50, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Definition of "diversity" 

message: This lede begins with the murder of George Floyd. That's weird, because this notion did not begin with the murder of George Floyd. Zanahary (talk) 21:50, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lede issue 

message: Propose merging Diversity (business) into Diversity, equity, and inclusion#Corporate. The DEI article has the general DEI context better explained. Aspects applied to business can be merged. HudecEmil (talk) 09:27, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I suggest that the two articles not be merged. DEI is much broader. An article created by merger would be too large and too broad. Should not be merged. Pete unseth (talk) 21:41, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge proposal