Talk:Iglesia ni Cristo/Archive 5

message: DO NOT EDIT OR POST REPLIES TO THIS PAGE. THIS PAGE IS AN ARCHIVE.
This archive page covers approximately the dates between 10 July 2005 and 13 August 2005.
Post replies to the main talk page, copying the section you are
replying to if necessary.  (See Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page.)
Please add new archivals to Talk:Iglesia ni Cristo/Archive06. Thank you. Theo  (Talk) 11:33, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

message: Sources are requested for the following so that the Disputed flag can be removed:
;The reason for Felix Manalo's departure from his early church memberships.
I believe that this can be sourced from God's Message for July-September 1994.  Can someone verify this and give the title of the article? —Theo  (Talk) 17:20, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I know it was also covered in the 1993 "25 Years in the West" Issue.--Onlytofind 01:13, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

text: Not to my knowledge. They might be covered in a Pasugo article though, I'm not sure.--Onlytofind 01:13, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources

message: Please do not remove cited sources from the ==References== section.  If a source was used, it should be cited (irrespective of its accuracy or attitude).  Also, this section is not the place to  comment on the merits of a source.  If there are doubts about the veracity of a source that should be mentioned in the article, remembering that such doubts must themselves be sourced.  I recognise that this raises difficulty for a subject like this where there appears to be few published sources from the Church itself. That, however, is the Church's problem and nor Wikipedia's.  I have, therefore, restored the deleted source (the argument that it is a duplicate is specious: it points at a different page). Ideally, there should be pointers within the article to the various references (which is why we use Inote until a consistent note system is agreed by Wikipedia).  I have also removed the note about the US Congress report.  To complete this process we should go through the article identifying statements derived from the US Congress report and indicating who has challenged such a statement and where the challenge (or an opposing statement) was made.  Perhaps those who have contacts within INC could persuade the Church administrators to publish some of the Church's past magazine articles on a website. —Theo  (Talk) 14:36, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: According to Department of Transport records</nowiki}} George Foobar drives a green car.  Newspaper reports<nowiki> say the colour is blue.  (The three sources (Vehicle Owners Log, Daily News and Thunderer, would all be listed in the ==References== section, without comment.)</br>
A "reference" is anything that is used as a source. Its stance on the subject (pro, con, neutral, or otherwise) is immaterial to its status as a reference to a source. It is called a "reference" because it allows the reader to refer to the source of the assertion.  If we follow the process that you suggest, you (as "a representative of the INC Administration" and so, presumably, pro-INC) would be prohibited from contributing to the article.  The only reason for excluding a reference is because the source has little or no credibility and if an assertion cannot be supported by a credible source, it has no place in an encyclopedia.  That is not to say that unsourced statements are false or that our personal observations are wrong; only that the fundamental nature of an encyclopedia is to bundle information published elsewhere.  That is why I suggested that the INC would benefit from the wider dissemination of its publications (such as the Pasugo articles).
If the INC were to publish its description of itself and its teachings then that publication would be a reliable source of information about the church's perception of itself and its teachings.  It would not be a reliable source about other parties' perceptions but that is a different matter.  The reason why the reference section contains more "con-" references than "pro-" references is that the Church and its supporters have not published much about the Church. The references section of any article will always reflect the balance of published material, just as the article should reflect the balance of published material.  I hope that this is clearer than my previous post. Perhaps you will now delete your annotation of the ==References== section and make your point in the main article. —Theo  (Talk) 18:28, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: References section

message: It looks like the software does not warn about edits occuring at the same time. My last edit overwrote TheoClarke's. My apologies. --Emico 18:54, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit Conflicts 

message: Poster using ip 69.231.227.190 removed my edit and claim "Last edit biased towards INC, link irrelevan". Let's discuss it.
Reminder to some users who may be tempted, please see rule on sockpuppets. --Emico 18:58, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism/Hierarchy 

message: Two things arise from User:69.231.208.157's unsigned comment at 13:54, 11 August 2005.  The first is, please would everyone who posts on this (and any other) talk page please sign their contribution.  You can use four tildes (~~~~) and they will be converted when you save the page. The second is, please could everyone complete the Edit Summary box for every edit they make.  The software adds the section heading to reduce some of the work but it is still helpful if you add a brief summary of what you have done and why. —Theo  (Talk) 13:40, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Using edit summaries

message: Can someone explain how the choosing of the executive minister is guided by the Holy Spirit. Is there any information available about the election process of any officer. Sources? Is the expelling of members also guided by the Holy Spirit? If it is, better put it in to make it more NPOV ;-) Coffeemaker 00:00, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Election of leaders guided by the Holy Spirit 

message: To Coffeemaker, can you explain what you mean by saying the forum is "exposing the INC bible lessons."? --Emico 04:33, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Exposing? How?