Talk:Parmenides

message: I work for Parmenides Publishing, and I added some of our books, including new editions, to this and other Presocratic pages.  Please let me know if I did anything incorrectly or verboten.  Thanks so much!
Reader comment: I noticed this reference;For a discussion of the scientific implications of this view see:Hyman, Anthony, (2007); "The Selfseeker", Teignvalley Press. That book seems barely available, there's a reference to it on Amazon, but no copies for sale, and no information. Teign Valley Press seems to have no website. So it is probably not a particulalrly useful citation.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.3.8.211 (talk) 23:12, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Publisher added books

message: I searched through the reference links and could not find any mention that the goddess Parmenides speaks with is Tartaros.  Furthermore it appears, from reading the sources and the translation of the text, Parmenides has just 'left' the underworld as opposed to entering it.  Could someone double check to see if I might be in error on this and, if at all possible, discover the appropriate goddess and cite it for us?  I'll post anything I turn up here before attempting to eddit the artical directly since I am a novice at edditing in Wikipedia. --66.223.215.146 04:34, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It looks like you're right - it is an unnamed goddess [].  Maybe there is mention of something to do with the underworld, in which case scholars might have assumed it is Tartaros?  FranksValli 08:11, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The goddess is unnamed, but I doubt that Tartaros is a good appellation.  Parmenides might just be using the underworld as another device to appeal to his listeners.  In the Iliad, after all, the underworld is used as a plot device to give Odysseus knowledge.  Another possibility is that Parmenides is in a place where opposites (like Night and Day) don't exist (as they don't exist in his conception of Truth). --Eienmaru 22:17, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

text:  In Heidegger Parmenides lectures the Goddess is equalled with Truth (Aletheia). -- Aethralis 06:28, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Name of the Goddess?

message: Re "the idea that the truth can not be known through sensual perception". In the novel Sophie's World (p30), Parmenides (and others who hold this idea) are described as a rationalists. But this article and Rationalism don't make this link. 
Is he accurately described as a rationalist? --Singkong2005
I think the reason is that Rationalism is, technically, a philosophical system originating in the 17th century in Europe. Parmenides, Plato, and others surely held very similar views though, so we might add a section under rationalism for ancient Greek influences/proponents. 
That being said, I've heard that Sophie's World is not necessarily that great of a source for philosophical ideas. So yeah, take what you learn from the book with a grain of salt.
"However, when one says that Parmenides "argued" something, one cannot think about "argue" in the modern sense."
i disagree with this statement. although he revealed it in a goofy poem, his philosophy is obtained by rationale.
Parmenides can be described as a "rationalist" because he relied not on his senses to search for the truth, but on a priori intuitions. - Jeff Mahaney
At the heart of Parmenidean philosophy is the disturbing dilineation between reality and the world that bombards our senses everyday. Parmenidean philosophy is consistent with reality being able to be accessed by "reason"( although to approach Parmenides with any  contemporary understanding of the term would be bad scholarship ), or, ultimately, not at all. We simply do not have enough of Parmenindes views on these subjects to speculate.Wireless99 10:54, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rationalist? 

message: I originally provided the link to Peter Kingsley, which turned out to be also the name of a character from some television programme.  There is however a non-fictional Peter Kingsley (wikipedia doesn't have an article on him yet) who wrote "In The Dark Places of Wisdom"  and "Reality" , two excellent and groundbreaking books on Parmenides and his world.  It is, I believe, not possible to make sense of Parmenides as a logician or philosopher, and any contemporary discussion of him must follow where Kingsley has led.  I believe, for instance, that we should countenance the possibility that Parmenides did not only write a poem concerning a revelation received at an encounter with a goddess in the underworld, but that he actually did receive a revelation from a goddess in the underworld.  Things start to make a great deal more sense once we drop the assumption that he was just being poetic.
Yes, I removed the link to the fictional Peter Kingsley. I was excited for a minute that there was an article on him. Now I guess I'll have to start one. Lindarosewood 06:06, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Peter Kingsley 

message: An anon user added some information about Parmenides working on issues related to whether the earth was round, or flat - can anyone corroborate this?  I have changed the edits into the proper format, and tagged it as dubious. - Sam 18:20, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Parmenides and the Spherical Earth 

message: I have deleted a big chunk of stuff that describes the history of thermodynamics and the theory of gases as it has zero relationship to the "influence of Parmenides" as is claimed... Sdedeo (tips) 23:43, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: influence on science

message: Surely the interpretation of flame and night as 'exactly like the yin-yang picture in Chinese cosmogony' is original (and poor) research, especially since it is interpolated into the Parmenides quotes. I don't know enough Parmenides to change the section. Dast 19:19, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  yin and yang 

message: This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 16:59, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject class rating

message: The passage from Aetius 11,7,1 under 'The Way of Opinion' is an AWFUL translation. (I could also take major issue with the contextual translation of δόξα as 'opinion,' but one thing at a time) I don't necessarily question the usefulness of the passage in adding to the reader's knowledge/understanding of Parmenides, but that usefulness is substantially graded by the lack of competence and clarity in translation. Does anyone know of a better translation in the public domain? If there isn't one, I believe I have more than sufficient competence in written Attic to attempt an original translation - and I don't think I could possibly do worse than what's already there. What is the policy on including original translations of primary sources?
152.14.229.173 (talk) 14:53, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I googled-up a better translation, it's okay to add quotes from copyrighted texts as long as it's no more than a short passage. I don't know how useful the passage is in helping to understand Parmenides. The main problem with this page is that the entire analysis lacks references - it could certainly do with a rewrite. Singinglemon (talk) 19:57, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Aetius Translation

message: Zenon of Elea made a lot of arguements trying to support the theories of Parmenides.There is one mentioned which propably lead to the atomic theory: If there were many beings,then their number would be infinite since between two beings should be another one.But each being should have the qualities of the one being,should be eternal,indestructible  and unchanging,therefore undivisible (Greek:atomon) and this will lead to a finite number of beings.Therefore there is only one being.
The plurality theory is attributed to Melissus:If each of these beings had the qualities of the one being (they were eternal,indestructible and unchanging) they could propably represent reality.This propably lead his student Leukippos and Democritus to the atomic theory.Each atomon (undivisible) is eternal,indestructible and unchanging.
NIGO--193.92.181.203 (talk) 08:54, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  atomic theory 

message: Comparing two ways of thought from two diferrent civilizations with no possible connection (I believe that Parmenidis in Italy didn't know anything about Hinduism) we will notice that similar social conditions led to similar thoughts:
Parmenides
The reality of the world is one being,an unchanging,ungenerated,indestructible whole.The everyday perception of reality of the physical world is mistaken.We must accept what is which is real and deny what is not which is not real.Therefore we must deny the past and future which are not and accept only the present which is.
How can this which is to be in the future?How can this to be what is coming to be?
Buddhism-Hinduism
In Hinduism Brachman is described as the primordial substance of all things.It is an unchanging,infinite,immanent and transcendant reality,which cannot be traced by the senses.The world of individual objects is an illusion of the senses.(avidia in Buddhism).Karma is the force which connects the past with the future and drives samsara,a continous cycle of suferring and rebirth.
According to Buddhism when you reach the state of nirvana,you realize that there are not individual objects,but only their relations in the frame of the whole.At this state the only reality is the present and there is not past and future,therefore  you are released from karma.
Social conditions
John Dewey  believed that the first principle of the greek dualism (dyismos) established by Parmenides is an aristocratical attitude of political stability,where the lower classes abstained from any material activity.Magna Graeciain Italy developed just as Ionia's influence was deminishing and was not able to benefit from the older centres in the East.
The social conditions in India were rather worst.The division of the society in classes was absolute and the lower classes didn't have any political activity.Even the penalties for each class were diferrent.  
NIGO--79.103.34.94 (talk) 20:52, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice original research, but what has it to do with the article? Ekwos (talk) 06:49, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Parmenides and Buddhism. 

message: Poem?Philogo (talk) 23:59, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: In the proem to the poem. RJC TalkContribs 01:35, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

text: I see now a comment in the article on "proem".  In John Burnet, Early Greek Philosophy, 3rd edition 1920: Chap 4 Parmenides of Elia includes fragments of Parmenides preserved for the most part by Simplicius including The Way of Belief and the Way of Truth however the refecnce is to "poem" nor "proem". Are there/were there  two texts,  The Way of Belief and the Way of Truth collectvel referred to as The Poem or The Proem Can you explain? Philogo (talk) 01:58, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proem? 

message: This is a philosophical point about the content on this page. I am not a scholar of Ancient Greek but I have studied the pre-socratics in some depth. I think there is a problem with the use of the word 'existence' throughout this article, for instance in phrases such as:
"Existence is necessarily eternal."
"That which does exist is The Parmenidean One."
I don't know what Greek term has been translated in these phrases - as I said, I am not a Greek scholar - but the terms 'exist' and 'being' are not synonymous in relation to this kind of philosophy, and I suspect the original term was nearer in meaning to 'being' than to 'existence'. 
To say 'Being is necessarily eternal' is not the same as to say 'existence is necessarily eternal'. Similarly, 'that which IS, is the Parmenidean One' is not the same as 'that which does exist, is the Parmenidean One'. Anything which does exist, might not exist. So here, the word 'IS' connotes 'necessary being', as distinct from 'exists', which connotes 'contingent being'('IS' here can be compared to the Sanskrit SAT.)
This is because 'the One' is 'the Totality', 'all there is', etc. And this is not something which 'exists'. It is that in relation to which existence itself is defined. Within that totality, things go in and out of existence all the time. So the 'realm of existence' is precisely the 'realm of opinion'. Whereas the All (One, Totality,etc) is the realm of 'being itself' which is epistemically and logically prior to any particular existing thing, and which in Parmenides is 'that which is discerned by the Logos'.
This notion has a long subsequent history in Western philosophy (e.g. in Spinoza, Hegel and others). However current English does not really distinguish between 'being' and 'existence' so it is a hard distinction to draw. But I am sure many of the uses of the word 'existence' in this current article are misleading, for the above reasons.
I don't know what anyone else thinks, and also am not entirely sure how it could be written, but I thought I would raise it.
Jeeprs (talk) 01:33, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  'Existence' and 'Being' 

message: In the section ″Interpretations of Parmenides″, in the fourth sentence of the first paragraph, it reads, ″This interpretation could settle....″  Is that a phrase generally understood and used by scholars, or perhaps a British expression?  I never heard that used and do not know what it means.  Could someone enlighten me or, if you believe it is incorrect, correct it?  Also, later in that same paragraph, a sentence ends, ″according to Parmenides″.  It just seems a little awkward to end a paragraph that way.  It also is a bit ambiguous as to what, exactly, is according to Parmenides.  However, I don't know much about philosophy and do not want to change this.  I thought there might be someone who knows about philosophy and good writing who could read this sentence and do one of the following, for the sake of clarity:  move ″according to Parmenides″ to a place earlier in the sentence, delete ″according to Parmenides″, or add the name of the document where Parmenides says this.  (Though I don't know much about philosophy, I do have a good ear for ambiguity and lack of clarity.)CorinneSD (talk) 21:05, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The paragraph is clearly mangled. Notice the lack of references.  Maybe one day someone will come along a write a decent section.  There's not really much impetus for this because the SEP tends to have excellent articles already: See  for what the Wikipedia article should look like. --Atethnekos (Discussion, Contributions) 00:15, 23 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Interpretations of Parmenides 

message: FYI, Paul August, DMacks, and Carchasm this content about United States of Banana was inserted by a now-banned user, AmLit1978. This may be relevant to how notable it is. Teishin (talk) 00:54, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the background info - we had a discussion here and the consensus seems to be to get rid of many of the references - I'm going to get rid of this reference as well as any others that don't directly deal with Puerto Rico or Puerto Rican literature, with a note justifying why in the edit summary.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Carchasm (talk • contribs) 01:38, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I've already removed the mention here. By the way just to be clear, the book  was not being used as a reference.Paul August ☎ 13:24, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  United States of Banana