Talk:Fawn M. Brodie

message: I disagree with Parkwells' attempt to make the article more "encyclopedic" by degrading the prose style. In any case, with so many truly needy articles out there, why start here?--John Foxe (talk) 10:36, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: WP discourages OPED use of "Nevertheless", "not surprisingly", and similar terms. It encourages use of active voice.Parkwells (talk) 02:46, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Parkwell editing

message: re: DNA solves a Joseph Smith mystery Her book, and the news article confirms, says that there is a Hancock family tradition.Here are some quotes from the book (thanks to commentator John Corrill for the reference) " There is a tradition among some of the descendants of Levi Hancock that Mrs. Hancock was sealed to Joseph Smith in Nauvoo and that one of her sons may have been his child. Since there seems to be no printed or manuscript evidence to support this story, however, it must be taken with CONSIDERABLE RESERVE. " (pg 464)So we see that Brodie was actually not convinced of the Hancock family tradition and now, due to this article, we know that she was correct in her analysis.Also, contrary to what the article says, Brodie did not say that Moroni Pratt was the son of Joseph Smith. What she did say was (emphasis mine):" [Mary Ann Frost's] son, Moroni...may be added to the list of boys who MIGHT POSSIBLY have been the sons of Joseph Smith" (pg 484)
So, it appears she was not comfortable making a proclamation one way or the other regarding Moroni's paternity.If this is an important news article then it is important to say what the book said. BTW, the DNA testing is using the "Y" chromosome, which is preserved down the male lineage. 
--Javaweb (talk) 17:24, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree and have removed the article reference. Brodie was understandably tentative about the possible descendants of Smith's polygamy.--John Foxe (talk) 17:39, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: There have been several attempts to add the following statement to the article: "Claims made in the book regarding Joseph Smith's posterity remain controversial and disputed to this day. DNA evidence has now refuted the author's claim that Moroni Pratt was in fact a descendant of Joseph Smith, and not of Parley Pratt. DNA evidence has also refuted several other claims concerning Joseph Smith's posterity, including Oliver Buell, Zebulon Jacobs, Orrison Smith, and Mosiah Hancock." But Brodie does not claim that Moroni Pratt was Joseph's son; she is, in fact, very cautious and says only that Moroni Pratt "might also be added to this list" of possible children. Giving a whole paragraph to this sort of apologetics is WP:UNDUE.--John Foxe (talk) 10:24, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: While the Deseret News article misrepresents Brodie's conclusions and statements in the book, the DNA data is interesting in light of what Brodie did say.  It would be useful to show how the DNA affirmed her caution on those family traditions of descent from Joseph Smith. Parkwells (talk) 02:57, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: How about something like: 
"Given the polygamous marriages of Joseph Smith, Brodie like other historians assessed the evidence related to whether he may have had children with some of those women. She noted there was little evidence to support the family tradition that Moroni Pratt was his child.  Of other claims, she said only that so-and-so and so-and-so might have been a son of Smith's, but noted the lack of evidence to support such claims. Since 2003, the research scientist xxxx Perego has done Y-DNA testing of descendants of some of those men to try to clarify paternity issues. He has found that descendants of neither Moroni Pratt, nor xxxxxx, xxx (and others if we want to list them) have Y-DNA matching that of Joseph Smith; therefore they were not his sons." Parkwells (talk) 03:09, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brodie and DNA 

message: Footnote 31 is inaccurate.  William M. Epstein's Psychotherapy as Religion is not a history of psychotherapy but a critical analysis. It refers only in passing to Freudian psychoanalysis.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.216.14.1 (talk) 21:02, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources

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