Talk:Kengir uprising

message: In Russian edition, it was the tanks ("famed T-34's") were hauling long barbed wire trestles, sectioning the zone immediately (which makes much more sense, too, physically), while soldiers were saturating the zone with SMG fire. Tanks were moving with no regard to prisoners, bringing barracks down,  running over people (Russian edition mentions at least two women prisoners perishing in such manner). ---Yury Tarasievich 12:28, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello Yury, my friend! I read an english translation of the book, but I too remember reading that he mentioned that the trestles were brought in on tanks and that they moved with no regard for property or life. I've had a nagging doubt that the "Raid" section was insufficient or without enough detail and I think I'll go and add some of that information. Thanks!--Clngre 12:43, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Possible smallish discrepancy

message: Know what I'm recalling? Colonel Machekhovskiy, who was the chief of that "lagpunkt", was living in my own town, not yet long ago. I've read his letter in the local newspaper "Grodnenskaya pravda" once, he was denouncing something (at least trying to) in that part of the Solzhenitsyn's book. But darned if I remember at least the year. Could be anything of last 10 years (3500+ issues), so, unfortunately, quite unrealistic to find. Yury Tarasievich 19:14, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, Machekovskiy was not chief of any lagpunkt of Kengir (3-d lagotdelenie) 37.190.51.3 Hunu55 (talk) 20:59, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Machekhovskiy

message: Very good article, one point I think could be bettered is this phrase: "a conference in Moscow, attended by over 30 survivors including Aleksander Solzhenitsyn's wife, Natalya Solzhenitsyn." 
This seems to imply that Natalya was herself a survivor from the rebellion, which is not the case (the article linked for this doesn't make that connection and she would have been in her teens when it happened.)
Moreover, women's family names in Russian are inflected to a feminine -a form: Solzhenitsyna, Krivitskaja, Jegorova. Strausszek September 1, 2006 21:32 (CET)
:Yes, I saw that line a few days ago and thought it might be read as that, I'll fix it now. Thanks for pointing that out--Clngre 20:53, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: A semantic ambiguity

message: What is its reason to be in "see also"? `'mikkanarxi 17:16, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I added it. They're both similarly quirky and unusual things relating to prisons from roughly the same era. That article is what partly inspired me to write this one and I think somebody interested in one would be in the other. --Clngre 23:01, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: oflag

message: This sentence - "Coinciding with a rare alliance between the criminals and politicals, the prisoners succeeded in forcing the guards and camp administration to flee the camp and quarantine it from the outside, with the prisoners thereafter setting up intricate defenses to prevent the incursion of the authorities into their newly won territory." - is from the lead. I believe this sentence needs a little work. However, I'm loath to edit the lead of a present FA.
How about this: "The criminals and political prisoners formed a rare alliance, and succeeded in forcing the guards and camp administration to flee the camp and quarantine it from the outside. The prisoners then set up intricate defenses to prevent the incursion of the authorities." Venicemenace 02:12, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I wrote that and agree that, yes, "coinciding with" isn't right. It implies that these were two unrelated things that occurred at the same time, while the uprising actually took place partly because of that alliance. But I think your proposed replacement, while getting rid of that error, also kind of seems to throw the baby out with the bath water.  Perhaps just saying "Following a  rare alliance between the criminals and politicals..."? I'll edit that in for the time being while waiting for your thoughts on this, thanks for your help! --Clngre 02:24, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Yes, "following" is perfect. I think it might also be helpful to make two sentences out of one, although that isn't what moved me to go to the talk page. Any reservations about assuming the reader knows what "politicals" are? Nit picking, of course...At any rate, it's a very interesting article. Venicemenace 03:09, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I get what you're saying about breaking up that sentence. I'll see what I can do with it, it's kind of oddly constructed. But "politicals" should definitely be clarified, I'll change it to "political prisoners." And thanks, I found the topic interesting myself. Or interesting enough to write such an article on, which is to say very, very interesting.--Clngre 03:30, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "Coinciding with"

message: Just curious.  There's obviously a lot of google earthers on Wikipedia, and I noticed neither this or the stub on the camp itself appear to have it.   Even if it's just an empty space, it would still be neat (like Manzanar) --Bobak 03:05, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know its exact location, and I'm sure it's gone now, but I know its right south of the Kazakh city of Dzhezkazgan and somewhere along the Kara-Kengir river.  Somewhere in the vicinity of   --Clngre 03:56, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Kengir's coordinates?

message: : the infusion of roughly 650 thieves into Kengir
It would be nice to provide the number of political prisoners at the time. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Paisa (talk • contribs) 09:12, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, done. Thanks for catching that!--Clngre 12:53, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Around 5200 political prisoners Hunu55 (talk) 21:02, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Infuse 650 thieves into (100, 1,000, 1,000,000?) political prisoners

message: I've removed the recently added section on the alleged sparing of Jehovah's Witnesses until a few solid sources can be found. Could you perhaps insert a link to the mentioned article, and find a second source on that story? In my reading on this I've never heard anything about that, and such a sensational story being based solely on an article in a Jehovah's Witnesses magazine is a bit insufficient, I think. 
One of the very few examples of Soviet humanity towards Gulag prisoners took place during the storming of the camp. At the commencement of the attack some 80 Jehovah's Witness prisoners (46 men and 34 women) - who had been imprisoned by Stalin for being politically neutral, and who had been further 'imprisoned' by the leaders of the uprising for maintaining further neutrality to the uprising - were found in a barrack by the perimeter fence where the tanks, troops and dogs entered the camp. As a 'punishment' for not supporting the uprising, the Jehovah's Witnesses had been placed in a barrack that was considered to be the part of the camp most likey to take the full brunt of an attack should the camp be stormed. (During the earlier negotiations the prison leaders were accused by the Military Authorities of killing fellow prisoners who did not support the uprising. By way of a defence the leaders stated that the Witnesses had not taken any part in the uprising but had been put in a separated barrack. As such their exact location became known to the Soviet forces who had already surrounded the camp). A Red Army Officer accompanied by a squad of Assault Troops who took part in the raid entered the barrack that held the Witnesses. According to one of the Witnesses who was in the barrack during the attack stated that the Officer shouted "Quick, get yourselves outside the fence!" He then ordered the troops to take all 80 Witnesses outside into protective custody and place them well beyond the perimeter fence along with orders that they were not to be shot. As such the Jehovah's Witness prisoners survived the raid and the subsequent beatings, trials and executions. (See "The Watchtower" 1st March 2007, pages 8-12).
--Clngre 17:50, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Jehovah's Witnesses

message: Please pay attention for this file :File:IFRC flag used in Kengir Uprising.png 37.190.51.3 (talk) 21:18, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flagicon 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I miss an explanation of the Soviet coverage of the uprising.
The article says that the Soviet side was busy taking propaganda photos and the like.
What was done with those photos?
Was the Soviet public informed (however biasedly) about the rising or was the news suppressed?
Did the Soviet (or foreign) public know about it before "Gulag Archipelago"?
--Error (talk) 08:46, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Soviet coverage