Talk:North Hollywood shootout/Archive 1

message: I haven't found a good cite regarding the type of rifle the police retrieved from the gun store, but to the best of my knowledge, they were AR-15s, semi-automatic "civilian" versions of the M-16 full-auto military rifle. M-16s are rare among civilians, cost around $20,000 each as of this writing, and are not typically sitting around in quantity on your average gun store shelf. WeedWhacker 20:08, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Type of rifle borrowed by police from gun store 

message: I made a few edits to recent changes, but we still have an article which now appears to contradict itself in claiming that the criminals' weapons were obtained both legally and illegally....
"Phillips and Matasareanu had previously been arrested in 1996 for armed robbery, but legally fought and successfully won for their assault rifles to be returned to them."
"Opponents of gun control counter that since the weapons had been obtained illegally, the incident did not indicate that criminal use of registered fully automatic firearms was a problem; to date there has been no recorded commission of a crime other than suicide with a legally registered fully automatic firearm by the legal owner--a few have been used following their theft"
Please clarify, or cite sources.
The judges gave them their guns back so they could pay their crimes. - LAPD85
----
Somebody should add two bits of information:
* The two suspects were stopped that morning by police; guns were found in the trunk; they were let go.
* The mother of the guy who did not get medical attention in time sued the city; this resulted in a mistrial in 2000
AxelBoldt 03:25, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edits 

message: Can bullets really go through cement walls? Could somebody confirm this? Ravenstorm 00:57, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bullets shot through cement 

message: Early: The shootout resulted in the wounding of twenty people (twelve police officers and eight civilians)
Later: During the shootout, a total of twelve officers and two civilians were wounded
I mean, I guess some civilians could technically have been shot after the shootout, but that would be under very strange circumstances.
I'm guessing the lower number is true. One of the gunmen hit a hostage in the bank, and then trapped the hostages in the bank so they wouldn't get hurt. Later, Larry shot at a chopper with a reporter. There was no other mention of civilians being hurt, though it's possible they were caught in crossfire. However, the cops had the area surrounded before the gunmen got away from the bank.
Ah, I'll just change the article myself to reflect what the article says. A random CNN article I found only mentions one civilian...
70.66.9.162 10:37, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Contradiction in Civilians wounded

message: OK, guys, here's the truth:  B&B gave the police officers weapons without the waiting period, action was taken against B&B by the Department of Justice, and B&B is now closed, but according to this website  from the DOJ, it was unrelated to the North Hollywood Shootout.  According to that page, it was due to overcharging of customers.  You can read the page for youself.  Now, it says these were customer complaints and so on, and while it's still possible that secretly it was also related to the Shootout, I think we can safely say that they had some cause to be investigated, at the least.  If true, I'm glad to hear this, for one. CumbiaDude 06:50, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Real reason for B&B's closure 

message: I smell bullshit.
:Yes, I agree, let's see a court case citation, or remove this from the article.  It does sound a lot like a conservative urban legend.
::Yah, the paragraph directly following it is pretty fishy too. I added citation needed tags, and we might want to add NPOV as well. —Lantoka ( talk | contrib) 21:32, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  B&B Sources? 

message: I don't know their source, but this info was originally posted by 71.245.133.181 in July 2006.  Based on edit history and links placed in the article at various times, it's highly likely that this person was, or was somehow related to the admin of this site memorializing the perpetrators of the crime.
71.103.121.188 21:31, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Original Info posted by

message: The first mention says he was hit in the left arm, and the next paragraph says that he was reloading one handed as "his right arm was still not working, as shown in video tapes". Which is it, left or right? Pennywisepeter 11:58, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Left or right arm? 

message: "Phillips walked over to the car, opened the door, and reached inside--possibly he was going to get in--but a round from detective Bankraft distracted him. The detective had been firing at Phillips; one of his rounds, a ricochet, struck the gunman's hand, while another hit the HK-91's trigger group. Instead of disabling the weapon, however, the bullet destroyed the second sear inside the gun, accidentally causing it to become a fully automatic rifle."
Yet 'The Weapons' section claims the rifle was only hit in the bolt guide rails.  The latter seems far more likely to me, so do we have a source as to where it was hit?  Geoff B 02:50, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: HK91 hit?

message: The movie 44 Minutes: The North Hollywood Shoot-Out shows both gunmen taking pills shortly before the shot out.  What/how much did the gunmen take?
*I don't know how old this is, but they took one pill each of muscle relaxant. 66.53.209.212 22:25, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: drugs/medication used by suspects?

message: It needs major trimming. There's loads of unreferenced junk, omniscient description, and conjecture. The "Shootout" section needs a complete rewrite. I wouldn't even know where to begin to salvage it. I seem to recall that earlier versions of this article were much more readable and concise, and contained real verifiable information. What happened? Rhombus 06:08, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The garbage all seems to have come from a series of edits by an anonymous user on July 12, 2006. The additions included such gems as "When the cops outside saw him, they immediately thought he resembled a hollywood monster, bulging with body armor and clad in black, the sunglasses under his ski mask giving him an almost insectoid appearance." I would revert the entire article and then reincorporate what verifiable information is left in the current article.Boondock 07:38, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: This reads like a "true crime" magazine

message: Based on recent mostly-anon edits(past few months), this has gone from an unsourced article to a total mess afoul of NPOV and possibly loaded with original research distorting its accuracy. If this was a bit harsh, please feel free to revert/undo my retagging... Ranma9617 07:20, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Retagging from unreferenced to non-compliant 

message: What's this paragraph doing at the end of the Shootout Section?
"This shooting bore similarities to both an actual earlier shootout in Norco, California on May 9, 1980 and a fictional incident in the movie Heat. There was speculation that Phillips and Matasareanu used Heat as a training film."
Speculation? By whom? What's this crap about a training film? What earlier shootout? Which fictional incident?
I'm removing this until further notice. Soniczip 13:44, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV paragraph 

message: I have added specific citations using the National Geographic program. Someone should do the same with the corresponding episode of Shootout! so that this page looks less like a load of unverifiable original research. Cliff smith 21:52, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: I don't believe it mentions that officers searched until about 11:30 PM or so for a third shooter. Shouldn't that be added? --Defender 911 00:02, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If a reference an be found for it, then yeah that would be good. That could be with that small 5th paragraph in "The shootout" section. Cliff smith 14:54, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shooter Three 

message: :Image:NhshootoutNshot.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot 00:43, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:NhshootoutNshot.jpg

message: It has only one linked source, and it looks somewhat like trivia sections you see on some film articles. The only thing that is linked was in the episode of Critical Situation, so that could be incorporated somewhere and referenced, but the rest of it has no sources. Because of this, it looks like it warrants removal. Any thoughts? Cliff smith 16:29, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Facts section 

message: Let's keep Wikipedia factually accurate by providing properly-formatted citations to reliable sources. Whether or not you know something to be fact, you can't just add it without a reference. Cliff smith 01:40, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[WP:No original research|No original research]] 

message: While reading through the archive to get up to speed, I noticed a lot of unsigned comments that made some pretty bold statements. Let's make sure we all sign our comments here with the four tildes (~), the key being located right above the tab key while holding downthe shift key. As well you could just ckick on the button in the edit bar. Thanks in advance for your cooperation. I personally tend to ignore unsigned comments. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 09:01, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Please sign your edits/comments

message: There are so many comments I'm not sure where to put this one where it will be noticed.
The article says "citation needed" after a statement that the length of time before one of the dying criminals received medical aid was criticized. The last reference says that a suit was fired about that very issue. Isn't that enough reference to satisfy "citation needed"? I think that "citation needed" should be deleted, or the reference to the civil suit should be repeated at that point. It looks dumb when obvious "citation needed"s are left in forever. The sun came up on August 14, 1945 [citation needed] Geneven (talk) 17:47, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citation needed? 

message: *According to NGC documentary after shootout some policemen got access to machine guns (not clear about class SMG or Assault rifles?)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.77.148.137 (talk) 21:00, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Really? Could you reliably cite that assertion, please? - Arcayne (cast a spell) 06:56, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah it was on the History channel..an episode of Shootout and they mentioned it on the Discovery Channel's coverage of it and again on the History Channel they had a special episode of Zero Hour and that again mentioned that.  M16s where given to officers who were trained to use them. I was not the IP, but I will try and find a source but it is going to be fairly hard as they only really mention this on shows dedicated to the shootout. Rgoodermote  23:47, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It appears to have been mentioned in the article. Rgoodermote  23:53, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Repercussions

message: Do not merge The article is to big to fit into Emil Dechebal Matasareanu's bio and it has nothing really to do with him...with the exception that he one of the two robbers. His article is a bio of his life and the robbery this article is about the robbery. They are two different articles that intercept, it would be like merging the Civil War article with Abraham Lincoln because he was the president at the time and he had his name in the article. They are not one and the same and need to stay separate. Rgoodermote  23:43, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Do not merge The two articles would only be merged if the bio of Matasareanu was stub-length (<1 KB). His article is 3x longer, so I don't think it is appropriate to merge the two articles. Nishkid64 (talk) 22:31, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge to Emil Dechebal Matasareanu 

message: Now where is it mentioned on the Internet exactly how the hell they gotta hold of all this serious firepower...?
Anybody know?
Gamer112 (talk) 17:41, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  How did they procure these weapons? 

message: I just saw a show on History Channel (Canada) called Zero Hour (9am Friday Mar 14, 2008) about this incident. In the show they state that the pickup truck owner left the keys behind but Matasereanu could not start the truck because he didn't realize there was a separate starter button in it (it was an old '61 pickup). Here it is stated the owner took the keys with him. Anybody can clear this up? NevarMaor (talk) 14:21, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Is there a way for you to seek out a citation for what the Zero Hour segment stated? If you can find that, then we can move on it. In fact, once you find it, send me a message to my talk, and I will institute it (since this page isn't one of my frequent watchlisted items). - Arcayne (cast a spell) 20:42, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Haven't been on in a while ... I've searched for something from "Zero Hour" but nothing turned up yet relating to this. Unless I (or someone else) can turn up something I guess it stays as it is. NevarMaor (talk) 18:06, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I concur. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 18:29, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The Zero Hour tv series stated the keys were left in the pickup, and showed the actor turning the keys in the ignition.  16 april 2010.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Midnightvisions (talk • contribs) 23:58, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: In Situation Critical it is stated the driver, Billy Marr, was it? took the keys with him. I remember they interviewed the driver for the show, but I don't remember if he himself mentioned the keys.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.161.231.88 (talk) 23:37, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Keys in Pickup Truck? 

message: I am pretty concerned that a lot of the citations look a bit false, so I am hoping that someone properly checks them out in the coming week to verify them. If this cannot be checked before next weekend, I will do so, and probably end up removing a lot of text associated with bad linkage. This is just fair warning. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 17:57, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: As noted, the older uncited statements were removed. Some of them had been uncited since October of last year. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 17:35, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: The citations

message: There's an image at the bottom of the page that shows one of the suspects lying on the ground "after the police removed the mask". Am I right in interpreting this as stating that the officers approached him? Maury (talk) 21:35, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed mask? 

message: 11 police officers were wounded by gunfire. With the exception  of the two gunmen, there were no deaths. I believe that the two gunmen would be more than capable of killing most of the police officers there. Would I be correct in assuming that they had no intention to kill the cops, only to wound? 206.172.238.50 (talk) 03:11, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  11 Wounded 

message: Does anybody know for sure that his name was spelled "Dechebal"? "Decebal" is an ordinary Romanian name (but it is pronounced indeed "Dechebal"), but no Romanian spells his name "Dechebal". Did he change the spelling of his name after he came to the States? Try to Google "Decebal" and then "Dechebal". All "Dechebal" hits are for this guy only.Mycomp 02:20, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Decebal vs. Dechebal

message: Cars are not considered "safe" cover by any means...Regular .223 you can buy at any store will zip right through them and the armor-piercing ammo he had was probably just FMJ. Rifles will also go right through cinderblocks. 76.25.115.99 (talk) 18:39, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Looking back in the edit history for the article, I don't see any edits from you that were reverted. In fact, you appear to be pretty new to editing. Did you contribute under an IP (perhaps this edit)? If so, your edit didn't have an edit summary, and I reverted it with an edit summary that stated "Unsourced". [[WP:NOR|Wikipedia isn't a place for unsourced information], and definitely isn't a place for POV statements like "The facts of this case simply read like the laundry list of a botched job by the LAPD." This all appears to be a personal theory- again, verifiability is crucial, Wikipedia isn't the place for meta-analysis. tedder (talk) 04:47, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Incorrect information in the "aftermath" section 

message: In section "backgrounds" it says:
"Phillips imported steel-core ammunition for his illegally modified assault rifles, and acquired Aramid to make body armor.[5]"
The source cited does not indicate that steel-cored or otherwise special armour-penetrating ammunition was used. In the documentary, "steel plated bullets" is repeated many times. "Steel plated bullets" in english means cartridges that have steel jacketed bullets. Those are a common Soviet bloc type of normal FMJ bullets that have a mild steel jacket instead of a brass jacket. They both serve the same function and are the standard type of bullet in military rifle ammunition.
The current way of phrasing this basically says the robbers used special ammunition. Unless there is a reliable source to confirm that armour-piercing steel cored bullets were used, shouldn't this ungrounded claim be changed?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.95.143.140 (talk) 21:43, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Backgrounds: Steel core ammunition 

message: Police officers are civilians.  They are subject to civil and criminal law, just like every non-police officer.  The distinction "civilian" is opposed to a member of the military subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ).  You see it on television as well, like "Cops" or "Police Video" shows that reference "civilians" as any one that is not a police officer.  There are police officers and non-police-officers.  There are civilians and there are military.  Police officers do not enjoy some special status.  They are civilians and citizens, just like us ordinary folks.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dkel1982 (talk • contribs) 19:18, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  POLICE OFFICERS VS "CIVILIANS" 

message: I don't see a shooting by police of an armed individual and a shooting of armed indviduals by the police as being related.  — Arthur Rubin  (talk) 22:58, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: They are both high-profile shootouts that happened in California; it stands to reason that interested individuals would like to read about related shootouts whether or not it was the police or criminal who ultimately killed in said shootouts. –xeno (talk) 23:01, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I still don't see it, except as a category or List of law enforcement shootouts#California.  — Arthur Rubin  (talk) 23:17, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd agree with both as a replacement for the several "See also"s, do you want to start the list or should I? –xeno (talk) 14:29, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Go ahead.  You may be more familiar with the topics than I am, and I can't find a good search term or Wikipedia categorization which would pick up a number of them.  — Arthur Rubin  (talk) 15:14, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Related articles 

message: In this article, there are references to both 1,300 and 1,100 rounds being fired, each with a different source. At this time, the current phrasing is:
 By the time the shooting had stopped, Phillips and Matasareanu had fired about 1,300 rounds.[13]
Yet the next section states:
 In this case, approximately 650 rounds were fired at two heavily armed and heavily armored men, who had fired 1,100 rounds.[4]
This is rather unfortunate to have differing sources in the same article, each quoted separately. If each source is considered reliable, then perhaps it would be better to say that "Sources say that  Phillips and Matasareanu fired approximately 1,100 to 1,300 rounds."?
Dayid (talk) 13:22, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with you. I've seen a doc (Situation Critical) about this on the Nat Geo Channel. It was quite long ago, though, but I REALLY believe it said there were fired 1,100 rounds. Plus, now both references are the same (1,100), so I guess we shouldn't worry about this anymore. Yet I appreciate your concern about it! Sim(ã)o(n) (talk) 21:03, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  References to both 1,300 and 1,100 rounds fired 

message: I herd that about 100 police officers responded to this robbery. What's the real number of cops and swat members?Pikazilla (talk) 03:04, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Police Force Size

message: Whoever decided to include the list of firearms is working on pure assumption.
The 'AKs' were not Romanian AIMS, this is laughable in the extreme, they are Chinese Norinco Type 56 Sporter.
In depth analysis of independent identification and their heritage can be found on my website about this event (which i have spent over a year working on).
http://northhollywoodshootout.weebly.com/rifle-1-emil-matasareanu.html
There was NO second Beretta 92 found at the scene.
If proof is needed, as im sure it is, i have photographs of the LAPD's evidence tags of the rifles and copies of the various pages of the FBI reports which list the amount of recovered firearms...
2 x Norinco Type 56S
1 x Norinco Type 56S-1
1 x Heckler & Koch Model 91
1 x Bushmaster XM15-E2S (A2)
1 x Beretta 92F
I understand the premise of a community project, but there appears to be absolutely no control or inclination to 'back up' what is written by certain members.
(Roguebear (talk) 10:16, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It appears that the firearms listing may be cited to a program on the National Geographic Channel that I don't know how to easily verify short of finding that particular episode on DVD. If you have better, more accurate information that can be attributed to a reliable source then by all means be bold and correct it yourself. —KuyaBriBriTalk 14:31, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

text: If you intend to cite the official FBI document, it would be a good idea to link a website where anyone can access that document in its entirety. If you have it uploaded in its entirety on your personal website that may be acceptable, but if you can find it on an official government website that would be ideal. —KuyaBriBriTalk 16:53, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Firearms 

message: Reading through this article I found it chockablock with syntax and grammar errors. Please do not remove the tag until it can be proof-read and found error free. ViniTheHat (talk) 19:16, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: When do you propose to do that? --Demiurge1000 (talk) 19:31, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  when i have time. And in the meantime, maybe someone else has the time. Thats how tagging works. ViniTheHat (talk) 20:15, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Unsurprisingly, more than three months later you still haven't found the time. I've removed the template. Please go ahead and rectify or identify the syntax and grammar errors if you wish. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 02:30, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Can I help?Slx03 (talk) 22:13, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyedit tag 

message: As soon as I came to the shootout's entry, I wondered if I'd find LAPD radio jargon;  sure enough:  "15-A-43, requesting assistance, We have a possible 211 in progress at the Bank of America."  Just leave that off, thank you.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.105.28.86 (talk) 08:03, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Asperger's much? 

message: Substituted at 15:29, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: Several documentaries as well as paper sources mention the perps being on muscle relaxants to improve their nerves and possibly to increase resistance to gunfire. Yet I do not see that in the article. Has this been discussed previously? Gaijin42 (talk) 13:57, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: NM, I found the phenobarbital  in the article, I was looking for the words "muscle relaxer" Gaijin42 (talk) 14:02, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  muscle relaxants 

message: The article mentions that the gunmen used Norincos, but then it switches to AKM mid-article. What's what? 75.51.144.9 (talk) 23:45, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  AKM or Norinco? 

message: The overwhelming majority of sources refer to one of the perpetrators as "Matasareanu". For example:  I can find only one book which refers to him as "Mătăsăreanu":  The change was made by an anonymous editor with no explanation or discussion. While the latter may be the correct spelling in the perpetrator's home country, in regards to this incident in this country the common and correct spelling seems to be "Matasareanu". Unless there's clear evidence that the perpetrator personally preferred the more unusual spelling, the common one should be used. Rezin (talk) 22:00, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Matasareanu vs.Mătăsăreanu 

message: The current article states "ammunition capable of penetrating vehicles and police Kevlar vests," which makes it seem special ammunition was used. Virtually all centerfire rifle ammunition from a rifle will go though a non plate Kevlar police vest like butter. Especially target ammo, which is FMJ. The sentence needs some modification because it implies the ammunition was specialized, and it was not.Carwon (talk) 14:32, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rifle Ammunition and Law Enforcement Vests 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on North Hollywood shootout. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20131029193138/http://www.northhollywoodshootout.com/part-i-robbery.html to http://www.northhollywoodshootout.com/part-i-robbery.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20141021040601/http://www.durikgroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/img1231nb.jpg to http://www.durikgroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/img1231nb.jpg
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on North Hollywood shootout. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: In the lead of the article it says that:
:Phillips and Mătăsăreanu are believed to have robbed at least two other banks [...] and are possible suspects in two armored vehicle robberies.
Yet the article then proceeds in the "background" section to describe these incidents as if it is fact that they were committed by these guys. If it was never confirmed, the background should stated that "unidentified gunmen" did the crimes and then note that it is believes that these guys were those gunmen. If they have been identified as the gunmen, the lead should be fixed. TheHYPO (talk) 15:56, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Attribution of other crimes 

message: The lead goes into too much detail about the firearms etc. The lead should give us an overview of what is to come in the article, not tell the story. Unless someone opposes it, I'm going to trim it down. Niteshift36 (talk) 13:53, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead is too detailed 

message: There are two diagrams of the area of the shootout. The first - while a somewhat crude rendering - provides a lot more detail than the second one. I don't really see the point of having two - I'm going to pull the second one. Just a heads-up. Anastrophe (talk) 15:40, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Two maps 

message: Under "Backgrounds," the last name of Mătăsăreanu is not given. Is it supposed to appear in bold after the name "Balint"? Or was there a name change at some point in his life? Rontrigger (talk) 02:39, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Second suspect's name 

message: I noticed the See also section mentions Heat (1995 film). The article itself however, does not mention Heat, so it's not 100% clear why the movie is mentioned. It has a similar shootout (apparently), but readers are left to guess that. --82.170.113.123 (talk) 19:22, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: *It doesn't belong. Removed. Niteshift36 (talk) 19:24, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: *It was there because that film was the inspiration for these criminals. They took pretty much their entire playbook from it. The page on Heat explains this, and it was covered extensively at the time.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.197.17.231 (talk) 18:49, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Heat (1995 film) 

message: I have some doubts about :
"Phillips and Mătăsăreanu carried illegally modified now fully automatic Norinco Type 56 S-1s". What's that "now"?
"Police likely shot Phillips and his rifle". Wouldn't "probably" be better than "likely", or am I just out of touch with modern english?
There are some occurrences of "Matasareanu" without the accents.Masonmilan (talk) 13:12, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I've removed the "now". Most occurrences of Matasareanu should not have diacritics per WP:COMMONNAME and the English spelling does not have those. — Berean Hunter (talk) 14:09, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

text: Ngram to support name in English. — Berean Hunter (talk) 14:12, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

text: I've made the name substitutions IAW WP:COMMONNAME Leaving his full name intact.  TurboManiacal (talk) 19:25, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  English