Talk:Ahmadiyya/Archive 1

message: I think there is a dispute first of all to clear who is actually Muslim, there is alot talking over Main stream Muslim but if some one ask them just define first who is Muslim ? they even can not settle on the defination of their own belief !! it is well known that people of Shia faith do not consider other sects of Islam Muslim and Sunnies and other do not belief the Shiaa's are Muslim, Wahabi consider them Muslim and rest non Muslim, in order to declare Ahmadies non Muslim, first they should consider their own status in the eyes of their own "Brother Muslims" and then declare them Non Muslim. It was a mistake for a National Assembly of a country to decide the faith of a peace full movement, but they all forget the nature of charector these people who were sitting in the Assembely then. All kind of people, with all kind of sins in thier pockets and you expect them to decide about some ones faith, I think people should also read the white paper published by General Zia's Government about the charactors of  Assembly members, I think they will be satisfied, if not, then it is just their hate with close eyes you can not do any thing as their is no cure for blind hate. Phippi46 00:22, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  '''Who is actually Muslim ?''' 

message: Ladies and Gentlemen:
who "stole" from whom? I found the exact taxt 0nthe following sites:
http://www.essentialresults.com/article/Ahmaddiya
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Ahmaddiya
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmaddiya
Sincerely yours, Karl Schmitt
: The others care copies of Wikipedia. Valentinian (talk) 11:49, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  intellectual property 

message: The differences between the two branches of the Ahmadi sect are often unclear. Hence this article.
It also acts as a jumping point to more detailed information about the individual branches of the sect. Nazli 05:34, August 24, 2005 (UTC)
:Could someone who knows about this subject briefly explain the differences between the two sects in this article? --Yodakii 07:59, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article Overview 

message: --AeomMai 00:14, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh I see. That was not moved intentionally though. I reverted because you deleted the source link before. --a.n.o.n.y.m   t 10:22, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Please see the history. I did not delete the source link.Nazli 10:27, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes you are right. It was user 128.228.93.106 who deleted it . I must have ignored your edit because it came right before his/hers. Okay well I am glad you brought this to my attention. Thanks. a.n.o.n.y.m   t 10:32, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Ahmadiyya Muslim Community" 

message: Why this article is a stub and how is it an Islam related Stub and why it starts with Ahmadi muslims? PassionInfinity 07:56, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You are right, it should not be a stub. The Ahmadi sect may or may not be considered "muslims" depending on you POV, however they cosider themselves to be well within the fold of Islam - the article clearly addresses the controversy. Nazli 03:41, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why is it a Stub? 

message: Mainstream Muslims contend that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad's claim of prophethood and messiahhood violates the basic tenets of Islam (namely that Muhammad is the last prophet, and that it is Jesus Christ who returns at the end times in person, and no other). 
Agreed ... except that "Mainstream Muslims" would not use the term 'Christ' - given that it is an implicit acceptance of divinity. I would suggest that Christ be deleted and that the prophet is simply referred to as Jesus. Any objections?
:No objections as far as I am concerned. Nazli 03:46, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ahmadi - Minor Correction 

message: The Lahori and Ahmadi sects are comletely seperate. They should not be on the same page, so I suggest someone do so(I'd do it but I'm fairly new at this)
Aeom Mai
: The Lahore and Qadian sects already have seperate pages. Check the links at the end of the page. Nazli 07:09, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Please see under the heading "16 Article Overview" above. Nazli 02:55, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ahmadi and Lahori sects should be seperate pages 

message: where do you get your information? I plan to look into these articles as a bystander and make small edits here and there.
p.s u sohuld relly get a user page so we can send our complaints straight to you.
:Try the links given in the article as a starting point. You can leave messages on my "discussion" page. Nazli 08:01, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nazli 

message: I agree - the information on Qadianism will make more sense as part of this article. Nazli 06:56, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggested Merge of Qadianism into this page 

message: Information stating that he was the son of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was removed on the last edit.  Was this information inaccurate?  It now reads simply that he was the "second Khalif" of the AMC.  Considering that he doesn't have his own page, shouldn't we make note of the fact that he was Mirza's son, if he indeed was?  It'd be highly relevant.  Bobby P. Smith Sr. Jr. 18:38, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Mirza Bashir was indeed Mirza Ghulam Ahmad's son as well as being the "second Khalifa"! Yes I believe that it is important to mention the father-son relationship. Nazli 18:45, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Mirza Basheer-ud-Din Mahmud Ahmad

message: The term "Qadiani" may have originated in Paksitan, but is used in other countries as well. Albeit mostly by individuals of Pakistani origin or background. Nazli 04:00, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Without doubt the term "Qadiani" has come to be used in a derogatory fashion. There is no contention in this regard. The article already states that this term is considered derogatory. The issue is that this term is widely used. The constitution of Pakistan uses this term to refer to Ahmadi's belonging to the Qadian branch to distinguish them from Lahori Ahmadis: “Quadiani group or the Lahori group (who call themselves `Ahmadis` )”. Any encyclopedia article dealing with Ahmadis would be incomplete without mentioing this term and its derogatory connotations. Nazli 01:09, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

text: It is not the Lahori group that is reffered to as "Qadiani".... see . Nazli 05:17, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use of the term "Qadiani" in Paksitan and other countries 

message: 1. The sentence "Mainstream Muslims consider both Ahmadi sects to be heretics for a number of reasons, chief among them being the question of finality of prophethood, since they believe members of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community do not regard the Islamic prophet Muhammad to be the last prophet", refers to the orthodox Muslim point of view, not the Ahmadi point of view. Hence giving details of Ahmadiyya Muslims Community interpretation of finality of prophethood is in appropriate at this point.
2. Deleting the sentence "He claimed to have fulfilled the prophecy of the return of Jesus" would also be inappropriate since the controversy surrounding Mirza Ghulam Ahmad stems from this claim.
3. The Ahmadiyya Muslims Community does believe Mirza Ghulam Ahmad to be a non-law bearing prophet. Deleting references to this does not make sense.
4. The sentence "They do not believe that he is a prophet and this is what mainstream Muslims do not understand. The Ahmadiyya Community believes that the Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) was the final prophet." is inaccurate unless the issue of the of a "non-law bearing prophet" is also presented in the same context.
Nazli 05:15, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reversion of multiple Small changes 

message: People argue about the nature of claim made Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Sahab, was right of wrong you can discuss forever, but do not forget that we are just only humans, with limited capacities, I do not belief if some one claim such a big thing on the name of God and if he is wrong, God will wait so long to finished his teaching. No one who ever claimed that he was from God and was lair, never existed too long, hence here is Community still spreading in large numbers every years.. Do you think you know more than God ? and do you belief that God will let Ahmadiyya Community spreading like this like last 100 years so on the name of God if they were wrong. ? NO, so in which world you people are living ! You can do what ever you want but if you are wrong.. you will remain like that. phippi46 11:47, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  All We ever know 

message: I made a description that i really like, but i need to know if its NPOV:
"final Islamic prophet Muhammad"
Is that NPOV? --Striver 11:29, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Question

message: I have edited a number of recent changes (introuced without prior discussion), some of which address the fundamental issues between Ahmadi's and other Muslims:
1.reverted absurd removal “Muslim” from title of publication by ThePersecution.org.
2.reverted removal of the term Muslim as applied to Ahmadi's. Both sects refer to themselves as “Muslims”. The fact that they are considered non-muslims by some other sects is already clearly stated.
3.Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is the proper name of the personality. Qadiyani is not part of his legal name.
4.There are no mainstream Ahmadis – only two sects with widely differing beliefs.
5.Various opinions stated throughout the article with no references reverted.
Nazli 06:35, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  multiple small edits 

message: Changes in the following areas were reverted:
1. Ahmadi's refer to themselves as muslims. The fact that they are considered non-muslims by many other muslims is clearly stated. Removing the term 'muslim' is absurd and against the npov policy.
2. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad's legal name does not include the term 'Qadiyani'. The usage of this term is already clearly mentioned. However insisting on adding this term to this name does not make sense.
3. Than fact is that there are a number of Muslims sects with sometimes widely differing and conflicting beliefs. Hence the term 'Muslim' needs to be qualified with 'mainstream'. Also if a qualification is not used it implies that wikipedia considers Ahmadi's to be non-muslims - a violation of npov.
Nazli 03:58, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent Changes