Talk:Unidentified flying object/Archive 3

message: I would like to contribute on the subject of UFOs, trim and even break-up the current article, but I would like to co-ordinate things with other editors genuinely interested in the subject, so there is some "consensus" on how to approach this (unfortunately, due to 50+yrs of officialdom psy-ops, very controversial) subject.
The current article uses words like "claimed", "alleged", "hypothetical", "supposed" in every other sentence. Meanwhile (from MUFON Fast Facts according to a Roper poll conducted in 2002 for the SciFi channel, one in seven Americans say they or someone they know has had an experience involving a UFO source and a CNN 1997 poll showed that 80% of Americans think government is hiding knowledge of the existence of extraterrestrial life forms .
On objectivity, one need look no further than e.g. Wikipedia categorising UFO in the paranormal category, a/k/a supernatural (definition: "forces and phenomena which are are not observed in nature, and therefore beyond verifiable measurement"). This contradicts the abudance of physical evidence (50yrs of countless visual sighting reports by credible witnesses, some with close-up photos, airborne and ground radar, testimonies from 100+ of former government and military witnesses in DisclosureProject in 2001, etc)
So, do we want to "[pull a Condon]" i.e. pretend to be factual and scientific? Incidentally, the "Condon Report" has been the last "official" UFO study (in US) since 1969! The psy-ops have resulted in practically no mainstream scientists touching the subject. In addition, the modern computer photo and video editing capabilities render any recent photo/video taken by "mere mortals" open to authenticity criticism.  As a result, the most recent "authoritative" (officialdom, to be acceptable to the pseudo-skeptics) sources we cite on the Wikipedia UFO page are 40yrs old photos, whereas new UFO photos and videos get published every day!
To open minded skeptics (vs pseudo-skeptics) and agnostics: in ancient Greece, they said "μηδενί δίκην δικάσεις πριν αμφοίν μύθον ακούσεις" (as a judge in a trial, never reach an conclusion until hearing both sides), so at the risk of repeating myself I'd like to once again suggest watching the videos
*	 Out Of The Blue video documentary of the UFO Phenomenon (2003), 1.5hr 353MB (GoogleVideo)
*The Disclosure Project Witness Testimony video (2hrs),   part 1 of 2 (59min 230MB) and  part 2 of 2 (1hr 240MB). Two hours long video distillation from 400hrs of raw video footage of dozens of government and military persons testimonies on the subject of UFO (2001)
and looking at the photos, reading the stories1 or stories2 (unfiltered, most are probably identifiable). Dhatz 00:32, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In http://www.hyper.net/ufo.html have prepared a list of websites which can be sourced to add new material. Current article is sorely lacking VISUAL info (photos, drawings etc). Since there were concerns about using Maj12 SOM and uforth.com UFO shapes, there's the chart of UFO shapes presented during the Symposium on UFOs (1968) Hearings before the Committee on Science and Astronautics of US Congress 29-Jul-1968, by all the "heavy-weight" scientists of that time. Dhatz 00:32, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Objective, factual article

message: The Disclosure Project at www.disclosureproject.org presents a range of evidence that is most relevant to this article, yet remains unmentioned, a serious omission.
:Agreed.  Audio (and audio-video) interviews, are sources of quotable and citeable data for historical subjects and research.  The Disclosure Project has an excellent repository.--Michaelsayers 05:25, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Include reference to Disclosure Project 

message: This site has some great UFO Video Evidence. --Arltomem 05:34, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Evidence 

message: Here is a video that shows the apollo 11 astronauts faking their voyage using trick photography.
Classified Nasa Video
This video has since been released by NASA in 2002 after it had been leaked into the public domain.
Photos of Apollo 'test' studio.
Movie shows how moon landings were faked with life size props and models.
--Arltomem 08:09, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Apollo Video shows astronauts Faking moon landing 

message: The article now runs to 80Kb, with no clear categorisation or prioritisation of content. I propose a total overhaul, synopsizing excessively detailed sections, and providing more navigational cues by proper use of the heading/subheading structure. As a rough sketch of works I propose to undertake:
*(a) Prelim debates to move below the wire to an intro section, or other appropriate subsections, leaving a simple paragraph or two explaining the basic meaning of the term.
*(b) Explanatory efforts - amateurish, scientific, empirical, theoretical, sociohistorical, etc, in one hierarchy with concise tours of the key players/concepts from each.
*(c) Integrate all historical entities/events into a sociohistorical section with proper subsections
*(d) Integrate all current organizations, civil, military and howsyerfather into one Organizations section
*(e) Popular culture and fictional links
*(f) references, etc
Comments, please? Adhib 21:55, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No objections? None? Well, .... OK. Adhib 13:38, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Go, you chickenfat, go. 

message: Does anyone know how the idea that a ufo looks like a frisbee ever got started? N
:It was soon after someone displayed a photo of a frisbee and claimed it was a UFO? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Moriori (talk • contribs) 
::No, check out the Wiki Frisbees article.  The original "frisbee" was developed in 1948 and called a "flying saucer".  Remember, the term "flying saucer" didn't exist until late June 1947, inspired by Kenneth Arnold's sighting and description of June 24.  Thus flying saucers inspired the invention of the toy "flying saucer."  I remember my brother buying one in the mid-1950's and they were still called "flying saucers".  The switch to "frisbee" occurred in 1958 after Whammo purchased the patent.Dr Fil 22:56, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sometimes, little digs fly right over the heads of some people (just like flying saucers). Moriori 23:10, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I don't think the "I USED TO..." paragraph originated with Juliusdedekind.  If the I.P. address of the post can be obtained, the information would be useful.--Michaelsayers 08:46, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: random question

message: I have been all over the U.S. it's the same thing. IF there is alien contact, the whole planet just may revolt, some, for religious reasons, some out of revenge for being ridiculed, as persuant to protocol, such as the Robertson Panel protocol, some will revolt in reaction to the alien contact themselves, some will rebel to cause trouble. Some people have claimed that Martial Law will be implemented to ostensibly prevent violence. Martial Law 01:18, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't you realize, Aliens have continued to try to contact us but something seems to be stopping them. ex: Roswell, Rendlesham Forest ect. --Mahogany 04:13, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ever hear about the real Men In Black ? Every time a UFO is seen and/or reported, these "enforcers" usually appear to silence and intimidate people. Same for aliens. There is also a alleged deal between aliens and the most powerful nations on Earth, part of it involves secrecy and ridicule of witnesses. Martial Law 19:39, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sure if these aliens have the technology so superior to ours that is normally claimed they could contact us regardless of a governments inteference. And if anyone gets a visit from Men in Black after contributing to this article I'd be fascinated to know. And I'm also curious about what this deal is between aliens and 'the most powerful nations on Earth'. The most powerful nations on earth can't agree on anything, I doubt they could manage a conspiracy this big. Most UFO conspiracy theories are X-files inspired crap.137.138.46.155 11:46, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Rebellion

message: This article is going to need citations on nearly every sentence, I'm afraid.  For such a controversial subject, which surely is subject to the maxim extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, we should be very concerned not only about our sources, but even about the sources of our sources, as was Bede. I fully expect that true-believers will continuously add mentions of UFO events that are spurious.  To counter this and to make sure only the best documented events and the best evidence is presented, I think there needs to be a tripling of our effort to document every mention of UFO evidence.  I would start this effort by adding "citation needed" tags to every sentence in the article that introduces evidence. I would hope this would not just get the edit reverted; it is not an attack; it is an attempt to strengthen the article. Tempshill 05:43, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Excellent points all. It's nice to see another editor with the commitment to verifiability and accuracy here. --ScienceApologist 19:44, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations 

message: The following paragraph was removed from the physical evidence section:
:Attempts have been made to reverse engineer the possible physics behind UFOs through analysis of both eyewitness reports and the physical evidence. Examples are former NASA and nuclear engineer James McCampbell in his book Ufology http://www.nicap.dabsol.co.uk/ufology.htm NACA/NASA engineer Paul R. Hill in his book Unconventional Flying Objects, and German rocketry pioneer Hermann Oberth. Among subjects tackled by McCampbell, Hill, and Oberth was the question of how UFOs can fly at supersonic speeds without creating a sonic boom. McCampbell's proposed solution of a microwave plasma parting the air in front of the craft is currently being researched by Leik Myrabo, Professor of Engineering Physics at the Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute as a possible advance in hypersonic flight.http://www.rpi.edu/dept/mane/deptweb/faculty/member/myrabo.html http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/airspike.html 1995 Aviation Week article 
First of all, this paragraph isn't "physical evidence" and it makes a number of claims that the sources don't back up. In particular, the "research" into "reverse engineering" doesn't seem to represent very rigorous attempts and border mostly on speculation. This section relies on novel physics explanations neither peer reviewed nor accepted in the engineering or scientific communicites. The RPI link is dubious as well as I cannot seem to find any indication that this research is collaborative nor producing any results. In any case, reporting on this topic, if it is to be done here at this page, will require considerably more research and nuance than the above paragraph. --ScienceApologist 19:44, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed problematic paragraph

message: You have to see this one. The photog who shot the video has his website in this incident report: GIANT UFO seen over Phoenix, AZ.. Status: This is just now being investigated. Martial Law 20:59, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Three unexplained lights in the sky do not constitute a giant ufo, they constitute three unexplained lights. Jefffire 12:13, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Or they constitute UFO as in "unidentified flying object," not UFO as in "alien spacecraft." Unfortunately, the latter definition is more common. –Shoaler (talk) 15:46, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It doesn't appear to me, based on the two dimensional screen vectors and changes in rate of motion, that the lights are in a fixed three dimensional relationship.  Maybe a mathematician is available who can analyze the two dimensional vectoring and acceleration, who can see if there is a corresponding three dimensional model that would position the lights at constant three dimensional distances from one another?  I get the feeling that the video is not being played in "real time".  Not to be accusatory; rather, I am unpersuaded.  Respectfully,--Michaelsayers 07:07, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: GIANT [[UFO]] Over Phoenix, AZ.

message: You better not. I am going to go through this article to insert tags asking for cites. If you can provide a reputable source, then please do it to make this article authoritative. If you can't, then don't bother trying. Moriori 06:28, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: So, does anyone mind if cites are requested?

message: I've never heard of such a place. Where is it? --ScienceApologist 17:05, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I never have either, and I grew up in New Jersey. (Of course, I wouldn't have heard of Mullica Hill either if my dad, a biology teacher, hadn't taken me there fossil hunting.) But Passoria evidently is a real place. See the lower left picture here: http://www.ufoevidence.org/photographs/decadepage/1950s/18.htm --ChrisWinter 15:58, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Passoria, New Jersey

message: Here's one on the alleged Belgium incident: 
Radar angel debunking: 
Here's one from the BBC: .
I'm going to keep collecting them and we'll cross-reference and vet the article for errors as well as introduce the skeptical material.
--ScienceApologist 17:24, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Resources on UFO skepticism (sorely lacking in this article)

message: ::I have ran into personnel who believe that the "skeptics" and Skeptical orgs. are fronts for the CIA, other intelligence services, such as the DIA, all to make sure the recomendations of the Robertson Panel, other govt. protocol are carried out, such as having people who see these forbidden matters declared mentally ill. I was in a small town in NM. at the time I heard this. One elderly guy claimed he was in a intelligence unit in the military, which I suspect was "G-2" or the "USAF OSI. Would this be permitted in the article ? Martial Law 18:21, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you can find a verifiable source for this opinion by ufo-enthusiasts, you certainly can include it. We should have an entire secton on skepticism anyway. --ScienceApologist 18:24, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The Military and Intelligence Careers of Career Skeptics and Believers

message: Why is that some people don't accept the fact that there are people, especially in the U.S. who will shoot at these things ? There is one report on Wikipedia itself, the Kelly-Hopkinsville Incident, in which people have shot at a UFO and have shot at aliens. I am currently in Texas, and most people will shoot first, ask questions later, if the target is still alive. Martial Law 19:10, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Weapons Use

message: I turned on the chanal today when I saw a program on flying saucers was in my TV Guide. Sure enough, they had real footage of a disk shaped hovercraft made by the US military(and similar designs made Nazi German Engineers)
I wouldn't bother to post this here because really, these Saucers have nothing to do with UFOs(as they were made by the US military, making them IFOs) but searching the words 'Flying Saucer' redirects here.
I suggest adding a section on attempts to make Flying Saucers to this article(or an otherwise appropriate one). Wikipedia seems to lack this information entirely. I would do it myself but I don't know much about history, military engineering, flying saucer projects or anything relevant to the subject for that matter. I just watch a lot of educational TV...
:::Seen it as well. That was a poor attempt to explain away UFOs. That thing never got out of ground effect. Excuse the sig. A bug is preventing me from logging in. Martial Law 16:31, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There were witness testimonies in the DisclosureProject who said that the US developed real-UFO-looking craft modeled after the real things, called "Alien Reproduction Vehicles" (ARV) in the late 1960s. It is believed that e.g. the "red UFO" photographed by a pilot @ 10,000ft alt. in 1967 was an early ARV (an opinion I tend to agree with, as its photo was crisp-clear, whereas real UFOs appear "fuzzy" in photos and also self-luminous). Same witness said that by the 1980s the US had at least 3 discs (witness reported them to hover above ground without any apparent support, e.g. a rope from the ceiling). All those guys offered to testify under oath before US Congress. Dhatz 20:01, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flying Saucers made by Military Programs 

message: i think that ufos might not be aliens but time travellers, maybe in the future we have this kind of technology and a time machine so people travel back in time.
:This place is to talk about how to make the article better. ---J.S (t|c) 17:13, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not new... There's a TV show (7th day?) that has made reference to it in more then one episode. I wish I had sources for you to peruse, but I simply can't recall the interviewee's I've heard on Coast to Coast to who talked about it. ---J.S (t|c) 23:20, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  time travellers? 

message: I'm doing some rewording of selected sentences from the "Ancient accounts" section through "Hynek system". I'll also be switching the positions of two pairs of paragraphs. If anyone wishes, I can post the before and after versions here, sentence by sentence. --ChrisWinter 17:37, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:BOLD. If you break anything it can be fixed:) ---J.S (t|c) 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Some rewording

message: A while back I wanted to remove the ufology related whatnots to it's article.  When I started I quickly found that it was beyond me.  
Before we start doing a mass-deletion of WP:V violations I think the article split should be finished. Anyone willing to take this task on? ---J.S (t|c) 23:29, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  UFOlogy 

message: I've added the common usage of "UFO", which basically refers to any alien spacecraft, even if it's identified as such. Voortle 01:51, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I see that but it looks like you got reverted.  That revert was inappropriate. ---J.S (t|c) 02:01, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I reverted the article, for a very good reason. The word unidentified means something that is not identified. It does not mean alien spaceship. Furthermore, the common usage of the English language is to use words that mean what they say. If anyone wants to do an Alien spaceship article then they can click here and start typing. Moriori 02:11, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: UFO meaning "alien spaceship" is common usage, regardless of what the "U" stands for. In fact, one could say that UFO is a word on its own in this case, rather than an acronym for "Unidentified flying object", even though it originated as such. The common usage should appear in this article. Voortle 02:39, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We are compiling an encyclopedia, not a fancruft blog. The article defines the subject in the intro, as every other article in Wikipedia should and does. The first sentence of the third paragraph acknowledges that some people associate UFO with spaceships. Fine, that is is a logical progression from the intro, as it should be. Moriori 02:49, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No. It says that some people believe that "UFOs are extraterrestrial spacecraft, but most scientists and academics say there is no compelling evidence to support such a conclusion". It says nothing about how the word "UFO" is actually used in general speech. The third sentence discusses the concept, not the term. I'm discussing the common usage of the term, not what people thing the unidentified space objects are. Voortle 02:54, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Oh my. This article is about UFO. If you believe we need to say "how the word "UFO" is actually used in general speech" then create a section about it, or do an article on it. Don't insert it into the general introduction to the article. Moriori 03:07, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, all I have to say is that the word "UFO" is commonly used to refer to alien spacecraft, even by people who don't believe in alien spacecraft or don't believe that any alien spacecraft are near us. Voortle 03:12, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

text: I think the best solution here is to have a short mention and a link to the actual article on the subject. The best place for that is at the end of the introduction. Those who wanted to find out about alien craft may have searched for "UFO" and a link to the more appropriate article is... appropriate. ---J.S (t|c) 03:37, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added information about the common usage of term "UFO" at the end of the third paragraph. I guess that might be better than having it in the first paragraph. Voortle 03:52, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Common usage of UFO 

message: can i create w/photoshop a fake picture and includes it in this article as an evidence? the pictures used in this articles are all big fat fakes including the pseudo FBI/CIA pictures... this is pathetic. people... for J's sake... EnthusiastFR 17:22, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No. See WP:NOR, WP:V and WP:NPOV. ---J.S (t|c) 19:13, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  naive fakes.... 

message: I removed the following from the conspiracy theory section.
:Probably most Ufologists believe the basic premise that various national governments are covering up UFO information. In the U.S., opinion polls again indicate that a strong majority of people believe the U.S. government is withholding such information. Various notables have also expressed such views. Some examples are astronauts Gordon Cooper and Edgar Mitchell, Senator Barry Goldwater, Vice Admiral Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter (the first CIA director), Lord Hill-Norton (former British Chief of Defense Staff and NATO head), the 1999 high-level French COMETA report by various French generals and aerospace experts, and Yves Sillard (former director of the French space agency CNES, new director of French UFO research organization GEIPAN). 
:There is also speculation that UFO phenomena are tests of experimental aircraft or advanced weapons. In this case UFOs are viewed as failures to retain secrecy, or deliberate attempts at disinformation: to deride the phenomenon so that it can be pursued unhindered. This explanation may or may not feed back into the previous one, where current advanced military technology is considered to be adapted alien technology. (See also: skunk works and Area 51)
:It has also been suggested by a few fringe authors that all or most human technology and culture is based on extraterrestrial contact. See also ancient astronauts.''
I did it because this was highly redundent to the CS article. Theres still a bunch there... but if anyone disagrees with me feel free to put it back. ---J.S (t|c) 20:17, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Check out Klass under this site: www.ufowatchdog.com It says Klass has NOT done ANYTHING except snooze and smoke butts, yet can tell YOU what YOU have seen. On there, go to the "Hall of Shame 1", 7th place on it reveals it all about Klass and CISCOP. The UFO Watchdog also goes after allegedly fraudulent UFO proponents as well. Martial Law 20:33, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: conspiracy theory section

message: Are we human beings alone in this vast universe that does not know its boundaries so far? Could there be intelligent beings living on planets other living? If found. Are the more advanced of us, or did not report what we have achieved progress and technological civilization? These and other questions occur to astronomers. They are trying to answer for decades, before they ascend to the human Moon on 20 July 1969. It has increased the desire and determination to search for other forms of life outside Earth. 
At the end of last January announced the American Space Agency "NASA" NASA scientists were able to get in the harsh environment Mokhtbrathm similar to those characteristic of the environment of outer space is very deep, and developed what they called primitive cell, It is a film-like structures completely coated board internal cells in living organisms. 
Scientists believe that the materials or structures necessary to form an antigen molecules cells, which shows the importance of the origin of life, They exist in all parts vast deep outer space. The American world "Lewis pain Ndola" The new discovery could lead to the conclusion that life exists somewhere in the vast universe with life on Earth. 
Dr. "Durkin Jason" from the search for beings in outer space and the California-based life as we know it on Earth uses membrane structures to isolate the chemical processes and protection, required by the life of the factors and external conditions, namely that this is similar to the home of condoms anything outside These materials are membrane-like building materials are immense, allowing chemicals which are the origin of life required for the growth of household formation and evolution of life in other worlds. 
It has enabled scientists in laboratories and NASA to provide conditions similar to those existing conditions of outer space, the vacuum is cold, It succeeded in promoting a simple mixture using UV. It is noteworthy in this connection that consists of ice cosmic chemical ordinary vehicles available daily, such as : water, methanol, or wood alcohol, ammonia, carbon dioxide, which are frozen with each other, After a period of such material collectively other materials solid strength if plunged into the water begins to form internal membrane structures in the cells of living organisms. This is true to say-God-almighty God in the Holy Quran : "We have made from water every living thing." 
Radio waves 
There is also a space center in the United States called the "telescope City," began broadcasting on the life outside the Earth since 1960, About one hundred completed research for 40 years, did not tire Dr. "Frank Drake," and not dictated. attempts to monitor any signs of coming from outer space, perhaps inhabitants of the other planets in the universe. 
The project had been originally published as a result of research "Jeosbi Kokoni", "Philip Morrison" a world of physics, Cornell University, In this research found that radio waves might be the best way to communicate between celestial bodies; Thus monitoring the presence of any intelligent life outside Earth. 
The German Alveziaian had asked at the outset of the official telescope "Jodrel weep" in London picking up any strange signals coming from abroad. The proposal was rejected, but Dr. Frank Drake gathered idea, and executed, through a telescope City in the state of West Virginia of the United States of America. Now this is a new world to explore life elsewhere in the universe; with the current possibilities which he describes as more than a hundred trillion times possibilities and fixtures which started since 40 years. 
Drake says : may be residents of other worlds in our sophisticated technologies thousands of millions of years to say that everything is meaningless; Therefore, we will do what we will be in a form just what Arciolojia future. 
The observatory "Jodrel Bank" London has started thereafter to monitor signals coming from outer space. Not only that, there is Mersidan doing the same work for decades, one in Portriko. and the other in Ecuador in South America. Not only is this observatories attempts to capture signals, but broadcast messages saying : We inhabitants of the earth. From you? It is multilingual, perhaps up to the intelligent beings in this vast universe. 
Koran and life in the universe 
It is not possible to provide conditions conducive to the emergence of life is the only reason to believe that there are other forms of life beyond the planet Earth, But there are other reasons in the forefront of which is that this vast universe contains at least 100 billion galaxies. Within each galaxy there are millions of stellar clusters, such as the solar system, which is located Planet Earth It is a part of the galaxy "path Way" which includes the range between 150 to 200 billion star, and stars revolved around these millions of planets, such as planets, which revolve around the sun. It is incomprehensible that these billions of planets with life at least in some of them. 
The discovery of planets outside the solar system one of the reasons for supporting the possible existence of life in space, but in the galaxy; where scientists discovered planet larger than Jupiter orbits the star every 35 years in orbit similar to the buyer orbit around the Sun. This star in the Great Bear. As the world discovered "Alexander and Lskz" The presence of a planet similar to Earth revolves around the neutron star. 
Nevertheless, the scientists did not hold physical evidence confirmed the presence of living organisms, whether reasonable or not reasonable in this vast universe, But the Koran - eternal miracle - had told a fact of life the universe and the heavens for more than 14 centuries; almighty God says : "Only God Isadjadua depart Khaba in the heavens and earth" (Al-Naml, a 25) The Khaba : plant, because grains hide in the ground, then planted out, namely, that God cleared vegetation on the ground, as well as ousted it in the sky. The meaning of this life of a plant, It is what the Dr. " Ali Hussein Abdullah "transferred from his book" Are we alone in the universe, "Dr." Muhammad Abduh Ayyash "in an article. 
There is evidence Qarani another, but the existence of numbers in the sky, where the height of view : "The creation of yourselves heaven and earth and laying them from the hegemony and is assembled if he likes Kadeer" (Shura no 29) which affirms the existence of God decent numbers in the sky, and not in the land only. 
Life on Mars 
But there are discoveries astronomers refer to the possibility of the existence of primitive forms of life on other planets; where scientists recently discovered the existence of channels and valleys constructed water on Mars, which is called the Red Planet. The scientists also analysed the meteoroid found at the South Pole 1996, and found that the mass of rock that fell from Mars. with chemical and organic vehicles belonging to more than 3.5 billion years. It also confirms scientists that life originated first on the planet for three billion years. 
In 1969 and 1971 found meteorites in Australia, Siberia and the Russian and American scientists studied and discovered there were nine acidification Amineh quality is different from those in the fingerprints, or any components, or outputs Article living on the land. Scientists still hope to find bacteria. or any primitive living cells on the surface of Mars or to the depth of several metres from the sea; and trips through the red planet with advanced equipment during this year, 2003 and 2005. 
Other phenomena 
Since the 1950s and 1960s to the present century, and with the intensification of a wave of research on the life outside the Earth, Many believed that the land placed under constant surveillance by intelligent beings in space, This is due to a phenomenon called "dishes plane," It is a strange objects luminous elliptical form appeared in the sky, and it has been reported that some fell on the ground. Having first emerged in 1947, and increased interest in the confidentiality added by the American agencies. 
The American institutions to study lasted for twenty years. launched the project "Blue Book" to discuss the phenomenon of dishes plane. A team from the University of Colorado report ultimately concluded that the objects to the fact that this phenomenon is not voluntary, and the manufacture of imagination, Continued research is not only a waste of time. 
It has been said in some quarters that these scientific objects is only satellites spy, It was in the context of the cold war between the Soviet Union and the United States of America. 
There are also beliefs that the continent is a continent called "shuttle" mired beneath the Atlantic Ocean, It was inhabited in the past deep space robots, hallucinations up to say that the inhabitants of this continent are those who know how to build a former Egyptian pyramids. 
Some researchers also believe in the strange phenomena that incidents crash over the triangle "Bermuda" is a famous base Lmkhlokat space abduct these aircraft, The research, and the passengers. 
Ultimately, the fact remains that there life elsewhere in this vast universe real Quranic uncertain. The search continues for astronomers to find physical evidence of its existence.
:::Information is being collected for a 'research project'; it would be useful to obtain an I.P. address for this post.--Michaelsayers 08:38, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  '''We are inhabitants of planet Earth. From you?''' 

message: In the Republic of Peru in the city of the sun, which contains many of the mountains. And most of these mountains are flat, there are modern airports tracks drop-wheels - Mgrozh plane to land solid and these effects has been in existence since 50000 years so far. 
In the area of claims (nation) on the borders of Libya and Algeria mountainous area contains many caves called (Tassili) and contains caves inscriptions on the astronauts and women wearing the centuries on their heads, due to charges 30000 year so far 
And also contains a gate to the Sun City (Taiwatako) in Bolivia inscriptions astronauts for thousands of years 
And not evidence of the existence of a plane dishes inscriptions and drawings only. It has been mentioned in the books of ancient civilizations as described dishes aircraft and space creatures such as the civilization of India, China and Tibet, Peru and Persians'''
::What the fudge is all this? I can't even understnad what is being said here. ---J.S (t|c) 23:19, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have a hypothesis about these things, and am presently collecting information for a 'research project'; it would be useful to obtain the I.P. address for the post.--Michaelsayers 08:42, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  '''''UFOS from time immemorial''''' 

message: Please list any unreliable sources here.  Until that is done I'll assume everything is fine. ---J.S (t|c) 19:38, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A non-reliable source is one designated as such by the military,govt., people following "The Party Line". They do a UFO, other type of storyline, they get quashed, the reporter will often get disciplined, even fired. This is under the media catagory of the Robertson Panel, related protocol. Martial Law 19:31, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, were talking about non-reliable under the standards of wikipedia.  Unless we have government agents here everything should be fair. ---J.S (t|c) 19:42, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

text: The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 
The result of the debate was no move. -- tariqabjotu 04:05, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Non-reliable sources... 

message: Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~
*Oppose, big time. If you move this article to Alien Spacecraft or whatever, we will still need an article called Unidentified  Flying Object. The obvious thing to do is to remove irrelevancy from the article so that it fits the title. Moriori 21:56, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: I've merged some of the Ufology cruft over to the Ufology article.  If anyone objects let me know and I'll put it back here... ---J.S (t|c) 20:11, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ufology cruft... 

message: Did you know that the Robertson Panel does:
# Ridicule people who see/encounter UFOs/aliens by having them declared mentally unfit, destroying any social, other standing that they may have had ? It uses shrinks to do this.
# Use all media to ridicule the UFO and/or alien mystery ? That is why people laugh at people who have seen/encounter these things. I've seen old animation, humorous articles showing aliens shaking hands with gasoline hoses, electric wires, people popping pills and drinking booze and then having "alien encounters". The intent was to ridicule people who have had these encounters.
# Spy on UFO orgs and groups, personnel?
::This was initiated in 1953 after Washington DC was involved in a major UFO incident, to ostensibly prevent a panic that a unfriendly power, such as the (now defunct) USSR could use to great advantage in a war. Martial Law 05:40, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It was initated by the CIA Martial Law 05:43, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That protocol is still being followed today. Martial Law 05:48, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Two points. First, why are you here with this instead of at Talk:Robertson Panel?  There's only a single line in the article about them.  Second, please follow policy and keep the talk page about how to edit the article itself, not general discussion. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 20:27, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Will comply. Martial Law 22:17, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, I realize that it is quiet at Talk:Robertson Panel but still... -- Ricky81682 (talk) 00:27, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Can a copy of this discussion be placed on the Robertson Panel's Talk Page ? Martial Law 05:22, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Robertson Panel

message: Since the rewrite matter has been decided, can the appropriate templates be removed from the article ? Martial Law 06:04, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think so.  It can be put back on if there is any further need. ---J.S (t|c) 20:08, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Templates

message: This org claims to expose anyone, BOTH UFO proponents and UFO Skeptics AS alleged frauds. Among those claimed to be frauds is Klass and CISCOP. Website is www.ufowatchdog.com. Seen this in their "Hall of Shame 1", 7th on their list. Martial Law 22:10, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "Needs more fiber in his diet...an anal probe from the aliens wouldn't hurt either."   Yeah, that sure looks like a legitimate reliable peer-reviewed website to me. Oh yeah, he never said he was a fraud... just a "pain in the ass." What exactly are you talking about? ---J.S (t|c) 00:13, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They claim to be a investigative body that allegedly exposes fraudulent personnel, orgs, both UFO proponents and skeptics. I've examined the site myself. Martial Law 05:20, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

text: CISCOP is mentioned under the Klass entry as well. Martial Law 06:36, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They also have a "Hall of Fame" as well. Martial Law 06:37, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: UFO Watchdog Org

message: This site claims that aliens, incl. the Greys are hostile to the human race. Site is www.maar.us. Martial Law 18:52, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Malevolent Alien Abduction Research org

message: These two radio shows often discuss aliens, UFOs in general. They are Coast To Coast AM and Jeff Rense's radio show. Martial Law 18:55, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sites are www.coasttocoastam.com and www.rense.com. Martial Law 18:57, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Every Fri. NIGHT, usually, they have "Open Lines, incl. a SPECIAL Line". Main request is that one does NOT use profanity while on the air. Jeff's radio show may have a similar request. BOTH talk about UFOs, aliens from time to time. Martial Law 19:28, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We don't need to link to every radio program in the world that deals with aliens. And it's especially not ok when they have articles on wikipedia.  Unless the website is directly being referenced as a source, link to the article, not their homepage. ---J.S (t|c) 20:07, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Links have been cited as sources only. Martial Law 21:50, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Radio

message: This site links to several UFO websites and data sites. Site is www.mysteries-megasite.com Clicking on UFOs will take the reader to several UFO websites and data sites. Martial Law 19:06, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Some of the sites mentioned here in the article may be from this collection. Martial Law 19:46, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Mysteries Megasite:UFOs

message: Website is www.popularmechanics.com
I have two copies which have UFO/Alien matter in them. One has a UFO on the cover, another has what appears to be a naked Grey female alien on the cover. This magazine normally specializes in machinery, home and automotive matters, some military tech matters. Is that useful in the article ? The one with the UFO lists some UFO cases, bits of the Robertson Panel protocol, such as if the witness is a kid, the incident report is to be ignored outright, while the one with the naked alien discribed what and how alien life will look like. Martial Law 19:14, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Popular Mechanics

message: www.breakingufonews.com:Latest UFO/Alien News, and www.alienadvice.com: Advisory and Support group for people who had seen a UFO/Alien. Martial Law 20:03, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: UFO sites/Link Compliance

message: The image caption says "This is an alleged 1952 UFO over". Alleged? Either it's unidentified and then it's a UFO, or it's identified and then it's an IFO. I don't get the "alleged" part. // Liftarn
:It's allegedly a photo of a UFO. You can correct the caption if you wish. Moriori 19:40, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image caption 

message: I don't think this section belongs here, but I think it should be discussed first. Perhaps it belongs in the "Scientic Skepticism" article under "See Also" or section. Mapetite526 18:50, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Non Sightings?

message: The following statement from the intro is problematic:
"Once a UFO is identified as a known object (for example an aircraft or weather balloon), it ceases to be a UFO and becomes an identified object. In such cases it is inaccurate to continue to use the acronym UFO to describe the object."
What about a hypothetical situation where the government intentionally misidentified a UFO/Flying saucer as a aircraft or weather balloon as part of the a coverup of aliens? If an incident like Roswell did indeed involve an alien spacecraft whose existence was later covered-up by the U.S. goverment then it  would be wrong to say that the object in such a case has been identified since the identification would be false. --Cab88 21:21, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia prefers factual to hypothetical. If anyone says (as many are wont to do) that the govt covered up an alien spacecraft at Roswell then they have clearly identified the object as an alien spacecraft, in which case it is not an UnidentifiedFO. Moriori 22:07, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  UFO's falsely labled aircraft or weather balloons  

message: Anybody who believes that they are up to the task is invited to expand the Alien/UFO section on the Cattle mutilation page (about people who believe that one causes the other), as it is far too short and contains very little information. Beware, one of the users is really cranky about citation being WP:RS and will probably object to anything that mentions Linda Moulton Howe or laser surgery on cows.
perfectblue 13:23, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Cross population

message: Is this this link good?  Its a pretty good skeptical article from a well known skeptic.  This would make a nice addition to the external links list.--131.104.138.61 21:38, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New England Skeptical Society Link: "UFO's: The Psychocultural Hypothesis" 

message: I think its pretty poor that my external link to www.ufo.org can be removed with any reference back to myself.
Obviously people are trying to increase their search rankings by deleting other peoples domains.
both www.ufo.org and www.ufo.net should be on the external links, both have chat boards specially for UFO.
: Chat boards don't make the link "worthy" of inclusion in the article.  Read for WP:EL for guidelines on what websites should/shouldn't be included.
::ufo.org looks a little thin for content.  Looks like a dozen articles and that's it. Oh, and that forum has 30 members and 60 posts. Not really an important contribution to UFO research (yet).
::ufo.net looks like 8 articles and a forum with 116 posts.
:Both sites to me look basically like personal websites with very little content.  I may have missed something... and I'm willing to be convinced I'm wrong, but as I see it now they don't really add much to the article for being included.  ---J.S (t|c) 19:25, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't delete them, but they look like they add nothing to the article.  Wikipedia is an encyclopedia: not a link directory.  ---J.S (t|c) 01:43, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who removes links? UFO.ORG has been deleted Why? 

message: whatever,it's obvious to me you're just some idiot with no real POV of this artical.
::Calm down people...and remember the rules of wikipedia. Your own personal stories can't be included because of the no original research rules. ---J.S (t|c) 02:11, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  whatever 

message: Someone please tell me the difference between UFOs. UFOs must mean you see something flying in the air that you don't know what it is. But why am i so confused about UFOs being an "alien airplane"? someone help me not get confused please.
--[[User:Storkian|Storkian] 01:33, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  UFO or "alien airplane"? 

message: i have made an article that the admin here says its similar to this one. i just would like to ask for u guys to read it and if u agree with him, i'll let him delete it. if you think not ro that there needs changes to the article feel free to ask and i will allow the changes Tu-49 23:08, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Article in question is here: User:Tu-49/UFOs real or not? ---J.S (t|c) 23:43, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  UFO's Real or Not?