Talk:Senchus fer n-Alban

message: Unless the text following the subheader Senchus Fer n-Alban in versions 51653826 and earlier is a very lucky effort at translation, it would appear to be transcribed from a copyrighted work. Excepting the editorial comment, not reproduced, it appears to match very closely John Bannerman's translation of the Senchus in his Studies in the History of Dalriada, pp. 47–49, first published 1974. So far as I am aware, and the British Library catalogue concurs, John Bannerman is very much alive (and even if he is not, he was alive in 1997) so that his work is under copyright. Accordingly, I have removed the offending material. Angus McLellan  (Talk) 19:25, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Copyvio ?

message: Just a query about the title of this article: the well-known Senchus fer nAlban, or the more accurate Míniugud senchasa fer nAlban?
The MS rubric is Míniugud senchasa fer nAlban, as used recently in print by David Dumville (D.N. Dumville, ‘Ireland and North Britain in the Earlier Middle Ages: Contexts for Míniugud Senchasa Fher nAlban’ in C. Ó Baoill & N.R. McGuire, Rannsachadh na Gáidhlig 2000: Papers read at the Conference of Scottish Gaelic Studies 2000 (Aberdeen 2002), 185-209; cf. also D.N. Dumville ‘Cethri Prímchenéla Dáil Riata’, Scottish Gaelic Studies xx (2000), pp. 170-191).
Additionally, as Eoin MacNeill pointed out more than ninety years ago, míniugud senchasa seems to be a particular genre of Irish genealogy, ‘the downward tracing of kindreds from a common ancestor’ (John Mac Neill, ‘Notes on the Laud Genealogies’, Zeitschrift für celtische Philologie viii (1912), pp. 411-419, at p. 412, n. 1): the phrase míniugud senchasa is thus relevant in any proper understanding of the work, and its meaning helps define the extent of the text to which the rubric properly applies.
As to where Senchus fer nAlban comes from, I've found no occurrence earlier than A.O. Anderson's Early Sources of Scottish History. He initially (vol. i. p.  lxxxvii) refers to the text as ‘Senchus Albanach’, then prints a translation (p. cl), under the heading ‘Senchus Fer n-Alban’, but with the rubric translated ‘... the abbreviation of the history of the men of Scotland’. Míniugud is also treated as an integral part of the MS title in the translations of W. F. Skene, Picts and Scots, p. 308 (‘Explanation of the History...’), and John Bannerman, Studies in the History of Dalriada (Edinburgh, 1974), p. 47 (‘A statement of the history....’). However, Bannerman (p. 27), introduces the text in his introduction as ‘The Senchus fer nAlban, “History of the Men of Scotland”’.
If anyone reading this has any other references to the text as "the Senchus" alongside Early Sources and Bannerman, I'd be delighted to know about them! --AJN 13:36, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is referred to as "the Senchus" (or "the Senchus") in Sharpe, "The thriving of Dalriada" (2000) and in Campbell, "Were the Scots Irish ?" (2001). Angus McLellan  (Talk) 14:11, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, I meant older references, ie before/contemporary with Bannerman's work, or even before Early Sources. ::blushes:: But thanks! --AJN 13:54, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "Senchus fer n-Alban" or ''Míniugud senchasa fer nAlban''?