Talk:Timeline of the history of Gibraltar/Archive 1

message: *There seems to be some people who simply would like to use this page to portray the "Gibraltarians struggle to remain British". No interest whatsoever in any History unless this contributes to enhance their POV
*For the same reason, there is no mention of anything that happened before 1704 and any controversial issue is brushed aside (i.e.: "The Spaniards decided to leave after a brief siege" and similar euphemisms)
*I added the category History of Spain, as this is indeed part of Spanish History: The siege took place because the War of Spanish Sucession
Hopefully, with some hard work this article could be made to be more neutral Asterion 02:39, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  No history before 1704? 

message: As there is a global disagreement on Gibraltar-related articles, discussion is "taking place" in Talk:Disputed status of Gibraltar. --Ecemaml 13:17, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussion 

message: Some data constantly removed by Gibraltarian to make it accurate and neutral (sic):
* However, the Gibraltar area, such as the rest of the South Iberian Peninsula was part of the Byzantine Empire during the second part of the 6th century (reverting afterwards to the Visigoth Kingdom).
*1309 - ... The Spaniards took the Upper Rock from where the town was bombarded. The garrison surrendered after one month. Gibraltar then had about 1,500 inhabitants.
*1607 April 25 - During the Eighty Years War, a Dutch fleet surprised and engaged a Spanish fleet anchored at the Bay of Gibraltar (Battle of Gibraltar).
*1701 September - England, Netherlands and Austria sign the Treaty of the Hague.
*1702 - The War of the Spanish Succession starts.
*1703 February 12 - The Archduke Charles is proclaimed king of Castile and Aragon in Vienna. He takes the name of Charles III ().
(There is usually a discrepancy on the chronology between Spanish and British sources. The reason is that England still used the Julian calendar. By 1704, the Julian calendar was eleven days behind the Gregorian. Therefore, the siege began on 21 July according to the Julian calendar)
*1704 August 1 - During the War of the Spanish Succession, and when returning from a failed expedition to Barcelona,...
*1704 August 4 - ... (a map on the situation of attacking forces can be seen in The Attack on Gibraltar. Friday 2nd August 1704 in the Gibraltar Chronicle)
: The beginning of the English/British occupation of Gibraltar has been over the time imprecise... (for instance, in its speech at the United Nations in 1994, the Gibraltar Chief Minister Joe Bossano stated that Gibraltar has been a British colony ever since it was taken by Britain in 1704 ).
*1704 August 7 ... These objects (see San Roque Council Web site, in Spanish) remain nowadays in San Roque (therefore San Roque official motto is "The town of San Roque, where that of Gibraltar lives on", in Spanish: 'La Ciudad de San Roque, donde reside la de Gibraltar', see San Roque Council Web site, in Spanish). Only about seventy people remained in the city (most of them religious or belonging to the Genovese trader colony; see list in ). The traditions of the villages that received the refugees still talk of this departure as the Exodus of Gibraltar (Éxodo de Gibraltar).
Although nominally in the hands of the Archduke Charles, Britain began to monopolize the rule of the town. Even if the formal transfer of sovereignty would not take place until the signature of the Treaty of Utrecht, the British Governor and garrison become the de facto rulers of the town.
*1706 February - By a special decree, Queen Anne declares Gibraltar a free port (upon request of the Sultan of Morocco, to be allowed to supply the town) (while the Catholic Encyclopedia provides this date, the Gibraltarian government dates it to 1705). Spanish sources points out that, at that very moment, the English monarch lacked of de jure titles to do so, since Gibraltar was yet a possession of one of the pretenders to the Spanish Throne, not ceded by any Spanish power to England.
*1711 - The British government, now in the hands of the tories, order the British Gibraltar governor, Thomas Stanwix, to expell any foreign (not British) troops. Although he answered positively, he let a German regiment to stay. It would remain there until 1713 March.
*1721 March - Philip V of Spain requests the restitution of Gibraltar to proceed to the renewal of the trade licenses of Great Britain with the Spanish possesions in America.
*1721 June 1 - George I sends a letter to Philip V promising "to make use of the first favourable Opportunity to regulate this Article (the Demand touching the Restitution of Gibraltar), with the Consent of my Parliament" (). However, the British Parliament would never endorse such promise.
*1727 February-June - Second of the sieges by Spain trying to recapture Gibraltar (Thirteenth Siege of Gibraltar). Depending on the sources, Spanish troops were between 12,000 and 25,000. British defenders were 1,500 at the begining of the siege, increasing up to about 5,000. After a five-month siege with several unsuccessful and costly attempts, Spanish troops give up and retire.
*1730 - A Belgian Engineer, the Marquis of Verboom, Chief Engineer of the Spanish Royal Engineer Corps, who has taken part in the 1727 siege, ... The fortifications, known to the British as the Spanish Lines, and to Spain as La Línea de Contravalación are the origin of modern-day town of La Línea de la Concepción.
*1779 June - In the midst of the American Revolutionary War, Spain declares war against Great Britain (France had done it the year before)
*1783 February...
:In 1782, work on the Great Siege Tunnels starts. Those tunnels would became a great and complex system of underground fortifications which nowadays criss-crosses the inside of the Rock. Once the Siege was over, the fortifications were rebuilt and, in the following century, the walls were lined with Portland limestone. Such stone give the walls their present white appearance.
*1815 April 20 - An isolation camp to prevent the spread of the epidemic outside the fortress walls () is set up in the neutral ground. This fact can be tracked as the beginning of the present-day dispute with Spain over the isthmus sovereignty (see Disputed status of Gibraltar#The isthmus). A communication from the British Governor to the Spanish authorites was held. While Spanish sources account that it was a request for permission, modern-day Gibraltarian and UK sources account this as a mere information for reasons of public health and courtesy, since, according to them, the area is British territory so no permission was required.
:: This one replaced with:
:: The British authorities at Gibraltar constructed an isolation camp to prevent the spread of the epidemic outside the fortress walls. The Spanish government was informed of this for reasons of public health and courtesy, but this has been interpreted by revisionist historians as requesting permission for this. As far as the British government was concerned, the area is British territory so no permission was required. This fact can be tracked as the beginning of the present-day dispute with Spain over the isthmus sovereignty.
*1894 - The construction of the dockyards starts.
* The repatriation of the civilians started in 1944 and proceeded for some six years. However most of the population had returned by 1946
*1941 - ... (see Hitler's Directive No.18 here)...
*1942 - Spain "occupies" the remaining of the neutral zone (map). The Spanish government states that it does so to prevent further British annexation.
* 1965 April - The British Government publishes a White Paper dealing with the question of Gibraltar and the Treaty of Utrecht.
* 1966 - In response, the Spanish Foreign Office Minister Fernando Castiella, publishes and presents to the Spanish Courts the Spanish Red Book (named so because of its cover; its reference is "Negociaciones sobre Gibraltar. Documentos presentados a las Cortes Españolas por el Ministro de Asuntos Exteriores", Madrid, 1967)
* 1967 - ... Although the Spanish goverment gets a diplomatic triumph in the United Nations (since the resolution 2353 states that the holding of the referendum [...] to be a contravention of the provisions of General Assembly resolution 2231 (XXI)), it has virtually no effect in the politic life of Gibraltar.
*1969 - ... (this fact is another disagreement in the present-day relationships with the Spanish government, since a solution for the pensions corresponding to the period of time those Spanish workers had worked in Gibraltar is pursued).
* 2002	: A group of Spaniards, claiming to be the descendants of some of the population that left the town after the takeover in 1704, asked for the right to vote also in the referendum  (in Spanish). They were not allowed to do so.
*2004 August - Gibraltar celebrates 300 years of British rule. Spanish officials labeled this as the celebration of 300 years of British occupation  (since soveraingty on the colony was not ceded until 1713).
*2004 December - The governments of the United Kingdom and Spain agree to allow the Gibraltar government to represent itself in a new open agenda discussion forum.
*2004 November 18 - A joint commission (Comisión mixta de Cooperación y Colaboración) is established between the Mancomunidad de Municipios de la Comarca del Campo de Gibraltar (the Council Association of the Gibraltar County, the Spanish area that surround Gibraltar) and the Gibraltarian government.
*2004 October 28 - The governments of the United Kingdom and Spain agree to allow the Gibraltar government to represent itself in a new open agenda discussion forum (tripartite talks) .
*2005 July 11 - First tripartite talks takes place in Portugal .
*"Gibraltar. La razón y la fuerza" (Gibraltar. The reason and the force), by Isidro Sepúlveda, Ed. Alianza Editorial, 2004, . Chapter 2, "La lucha por Gibraltar" (The Struggle for Gibraltar) is available here. Isidro Sepúlveda Muñoz is a Contemporary History Professor in the UNED ("Universidad Nacional de Educación a Distancia"), the biggest Spanish university.
*"Ceuta, Melilla, Olivenza y Gibraltar. Donde termina España" (Ceuta, Melilla, Olivenza y Gibraltar. Where Spain ends), by Máximo Cajal, Ed. Siglo XXI Editores, Madrid, 2003, . Máximo Cajal is a Spanish diplomatist, ambassador in different countries and currently the special representant of the Spanish Prime Minister, José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero, in the Alliance of Civilizations. He was the only survivor of the assault of the Embassy of Spain in Guatemala by the forces of the Guatemalan dictatorship in 1980.
For sure, all these deletions must prove that it's me the troll. --Ecemaml 09:27, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  ... to make it accurate and neutral 

message: Gibraltarian pretends that the current version of the article is neutral and accurate. You can see an extended version that also introduces the Spanish POV in History of Gibraltar/temp. It includes all the information mentioned in the section before. --Ecemaml 09:43, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  It is not the "spanish" POV, merely your own, which is based upon years of Franco inspired propaganda, and your clear racist attitude towards Gibraltarians. You are a troll, go elsewhere if you wish to cause trouble.--Gibraltarian 09:37, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

text: Gibraltarian, it seems that your clock stopped in 1969. Fortunatelly, in Spain Franco died thirty years ago. Can you point out which elements that you insist in removing are Franco's propaganda and why? --Ecemaml 10:17, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Franco may have died, but his policies and attitudes are unfortunately very much alive.--Gibraltarian 11:38, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

text: Yes, in both sides, as you constantly show. Lack of respect for the people that doesn't think as you like, claimed possesion of the truth... But apart from your ad hominem argumentation, I ask you again, can you point out which elements that you insist in removing are Franco's propaganda and why? --Ecemaml 12:55, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

text: I will NOT spend my days justifying myself to a troll!--Gibraltarian 15:00, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Warning! The discussion on this article is taking place in Talk:Disputed_status_of_Gibraltar#Disagreement_points_in_History_of_Gibraltar. Sources and justifications are being provided. --Ecemaml 10:06, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disputed