Talk:Old Persian

message: :Old Persian is the oldest attested Persid language.
It's not clear since the target of the wikilink doesn't give a definition.--Imz 19:59, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "Persid" is an archaic term. Iranian is the prefer term in contemporary historical linguistics. The use of "Persid" is similar to the use of "Indic" as a linguistic designation for Indo-Aryan, eg. "Vedic is the oldest attested Indic language". Although "Indic" now refers to things "Indian" as well. I suppose "Persianate" would be the closest in terms of descriptors for Iranian. Sarayuparin 10:02, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

text: "Persid" is an alternate term for Southwestern Iranian. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 01:42, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is meant by "Persid"? 

message: the chart says 300BC but old Persian was first written by 550BC, not? Cpom 20:55, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See discussion at Talk:History of the Persian language.  –jonsafari 21:31, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Wrong dates?

message: Three consonants  seem to be mixed up by the creator of the WikiTable @ the Phonology section. While it is true that  is a voiceless consonant, it is a spirant (fricative) unlike all other consonants in this column and the other two are even more suspicious as c [c] [in the voiced column] is a voiceless palatal plosive and  is a voiced plosive, not a spirant. 
I didn't correct it, as I'm not a phonetician nor an expert of the Old Persian language but I'd be very happy if someone could fix this or could explain why it doesn't need to be fixed. --Adolar von Csobánka (Talk) 19:32, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: All right, I improved the table and contacted the author to ensure that I am representing the phonemes accurately.  Æµ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 09:20, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Consonants mixed up @ Phonology section 

message: this section is unreferenced, and a pain to maintain or verify. It also doesn't make much sense, Wikipedia articles on languages aren't for mass lexical comparison. It may have a place in a Wiktionary appendix. (:wikt:Appendix:Iranian languages vocabulary comparison or something). It would be more valuable to have a prose paragraph on the sound changes involved. dab (𒁳) 07:17, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you mean the transition between Old Persian, Middle Persian (Pahlavi) and Modern Persian table? I think it kind of shows a slight transition of some words and it is informative.  The material seems to be taken from kent. Someone replaced Kaam (desire) with Kam (few).  --alidoostzadeh 03:41, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: " A Comparison Table of Old-Persian with other Iranian Languages"

message: There was a long comment hidden in the table. It cites several sources. I took it out of hiding. Why was it ever hidden? David Marjanović (talk) 00:01, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Relatedly, what is the evidence in favour of ç as ? 4pq1injbok (talk) 04:42, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I hid it because it was more of a personal comment originally. The frequent modern assumption that ç denotes [ç] is influenced by IPA, I think; the reason ç was chosen was not because of IPA, which was not used much among philologists – or, prior to 1886, not even a thing yet, after all –, but probably with a look to ç in Romance, which stands variously for [ts] and [s] – with a welcome ambiguity, because 19th-century philologists were not completely sure what ç was pronounced like, either, they only knew it later became [s]. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 02:51, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Relatedly: the palatal "stops" also seem to be probably wrong. They reflect Proto-Iranian *č , *ǰ , and they yield Modern Persian , . --Trɔpʏliʊm • blah 15:27, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point, I missed that one! Also, as mentioned in the notes, that word-initial OP v turns to MP g (mainly) before u, and b otherwise, suggests that OP v was really [w]. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 17:24, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

text: So I've been bold. How to integrate the conventional notation best into the table? I'm bad at tables, the wikitext is really inconvenient. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 17:48, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation of ''ç'' 

message: In English
http://www.lexilogos.com/english/persian_old.htm
http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~iranian/OldPersian/
http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/lrc/eieol/aveol-0-X.html
http://www.avesta.org/op/op.htm
http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/lrc/eieol/opeol-BF-X.html
https://archive.org/details/cu31924026893150
https://archive.org/details/cu31924074376264
https://archive.org/details/guidetooldpersia00tolmrich
https://archive.org/details/historicalgramm00johngoog
https://archive.org/details/historicalgramm01johngoog
https://archive.org/details/historicalgramma00johnrich
https://archive.org/details/GrammarOfTheOldPersianLanguage
https://archive.org/details/OldPersian
https://archive.org/details/CuneiformSupplement
https://archive.org/details/cu31924026822431
https://archive.org/details/abridgedgrammar00bertgoog
In German
https://archive.org/details/AltiranischesWorterbuch
https://archive.org/details/HandbuchDerAltiranischenDialekte
https://archive.org/details/handbuchderalti00bartgoog
https://archive.org/details/handbuchderalti01bartgoog
https://archive.org/details/vergleichendegr00spiegoog
https://archive.org/details/diealtpersische00spiegoog
https://archive.org/details/diealtpersische01spiegoog
https://archive.org/details/diealtpersische02spiegoog
https://archive.org/details/diealtpersische03spiegoog
https://archive.org/details/einkapitelvergl00jollgoog
In Italian
https://archive.org/details/einkapitelvergl01jollgoog
https://archive.org/details/grammaticaeleme00pizzgoog
Graeco-Persian names
https://archive.org/details/cu31924026891949
https://archive.org/details/graecopersiannam00stonuoft
https://archive.org/details/graecopersiannam00stonrich
Old and Middle Persian
https://archive.org/details/AStudyOfDenominativeVerbsInMiddlePersianAndModernPersian
Codex cumanicus, Bibliothecae ad templum divi Marci Venetiarum primum ex integro editit prolegomenis notis et compluribus glossariis instruxit comes Géza Kuun (1880)
https://archive.org/details/codexcumanicusbi00kuunuoft
08:21, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  sources 

message: I have removed the link to "Lari language" stuck on the end of the introduction because the "Lari language link" insert is a awkward and poorly placed addition to the article. Also I think that there is no such thing as a "lari language" it seems to be a Modern Persian dialect. It seems to me that that article and the modification to the old Persian dialect were made by an Iranian/Persian who is motivated by "local pride" and is unaccustomed to academic writing in English.
--173.9.219.250 (talk) 11:05, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The Lari language is not merely a Modern Persian dialect; it is considered a language of its own, while closely related to Modern Persian. In contrast, Tajik is really essentially a Modern Persian dialect; per a source cited at Mutual intelligibility, it is fully mutually intelligible with Persian and Dari. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 03:00, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed link to "lari language"  

message: I was the one who added Tremblay's hypothesis about the Old Persian reflex of Proto-Iranian *-ah (Proto-Indo-Iranian *-as) being pronounced [e(ː)] and later [i], but frankly, I can't be bothered to dig up the cite and the phenomenon of appending a yod to Middle Persian nouns (in Pahlavi, whose spelling is fairly historical and still reflects some Old Persian features) has a better explanation, as a remnant of case endings such as the old genitive singular in -ahya, see p. 36, n. 3 (in German). --Florian Blaschke (talk) 01:59, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation of /ah/ 

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thread_title:  External links modified