Talk:Stjepan Vukčić Kosača

message: If it was Stephen's ducal title "Herzog" that gave rise to the name Herzegovina maybe it would be better to change term Herzegovina in the below sentence to its previous name?
"...was a Bosnian nobleman from Herzegovina. "
I don't know its previous name, but probably some involved editor does know it.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 21:17, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hercog from Herzegovina before it existed? 

message: To employ the term "Herzegovinian" to describe the regional affiliations of Stjepan Vukcic Kosaca even before the region of Herzegovina existed as a proper toponym is highly asynchronous. It is obvious that Stjepan Vukcic Kosaca first and foremost was a Bosnian nobleman who eventually chose to break away from the Bosnian king. Credible sources have been provided to demonstrate that Stjepan Vukcic Kosaca is described as 'Bosnian' in the literature. Praxis Icosahedron (talk) 08:26, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: "Herzegovinian"

message: I see that Krunoslav Draganović's 1942 book has been used as a source here. Given Draganović was an Ustasha, pretty much anything he says is likely to be dubious and skewed to his viewpoint, even when it comes to the medieval history of Bosnia. Draganović's pre-war writings were used as justification for the Ustase forced conversion of Orthodox people to Catholicism during WWII, and I just don't think any of his work passes muster as a reliable source. Peacemaker67  (click to talk to me) 23:08, 6 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I copy / pasted these from some GA. I would rather eat my own cohones then use a Nazi or Ustasha as a source, especially on topics of WWII or even modern history, and especially this or any other such person's polemical and propagandist writings, but he was also published and cited medievalist by training and not that much different from most of the Balkans medievalists regarding their personal worldview and perspective on the region and its ethnogenesis - he is ethno-nationalist (and was a sympathizer of Ustasha agenda). This, however, should not disqualify him / them outright, in my and, probably for different reasons, most editors view this is true. For writing on medieval history of the region, i use or do not object on usage of either Serbian or Croatian or Bosniak authors regardless of their eventual shaky morals, ideological and political background, simply because it is possible to filter out nonsense, fringe and polemical claims, etc., we should be able to  manage in refining and deciding which part of their work is usable. This particular work is on medieval history, and specific parts used as a reference is perfectly innocuous, and perfectly correct - this means that we are rejecting this person only in principle by deciding as a community (at least in one TP discussion if not at the RS discussion board). This issue should not be on editors' own discretion, to decide who was active Nazi or just sympathizer, while disregarding possible expertise in some field and should we or not used it (not to mention identifying them correctly) - we have great deal of such sources used all over the project, and not one policy or guideline which specifically deals with such a situations (no WP:Reliable authors). Griboski should not have removed the reference with an explanation "we don't use Nazis", instead they should have followed the procedure - because, well, we used them until we positively identify them to be Nazis and then agree that inclusion, in part or in whole as a principle, could be damaging for the project. There are many interesting discussions at WP:Reliable sources talk page (archive query: "Nazis"). My assessment of this very specific citing is that it is really perfectly innocuous and acceptable, but I would like to hear a few more opinions on this particular matter. I will try to ping some of them later.--౪ Santa ౪99° 04:50, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Anyway, he was used as a source for this statement and only in that one place: "Herzog Stjepan refrained from claiming the Bosnian crown for his adolescent grandson Sigismund, Catherine's son and Stephen Tomašević's half-brother, probably realizing that Bosnia needed a strong, mature monarch in a time of peril." However, even this could be attributed to Dominik Mandič, who agrees and adopts this interpretation. ౪ Santa ౪99° 08:02, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Krunoslav Draganović as a source