Talk:Same-sex marriage

message: Provocative consideration: could we argue that the Pope's decision to change clergy regulation and authorise blessings of same-sex couples is equivalent to some light form of recognition (eg. unregistered cohabitation)? Clearly, we are talking about religious acts, sacraments. But the Vatican City is a theocratic state, has no form of marriage but religious marriage. One could argue that: blessings without specific lithurgy = unregistered cohabitation; similar lithurgy but distinct from marriage = civil unions; same lithurgy as opposite-sex marriage = same-sex marriage. Thoughts? Finedelledanze (talk) 06:49, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: In my opinion, no.  There has never been any prohibition on giving blessings to prostitutes, thieves, murderers on death row, or rapists. This just brings same-sex couples into the same fold as other sinners whose right to be blessed, afaik, has never been challenged. That said, there are some regulations about who can receive various sacraments, such as the Eucharist, or holy orders that are more restrictive. I make no claim that my opinion matches that of the Vatican, or the DDF, and I bet plenty of bishops are boiling over the Pope's remarks. Mathglot (talk) 09:45, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vatican 

message: There is a persistent sock who has been targeting this article since at least February 2023. Their M.O. is to create new socks to make edits to this article that downplay the support of same-sex marriage.
Examples:
* Saying scientific studies that support same-sex marriage are merely "claims" 
* Commenting out the statement that "The most prominent supporters of same-sex marriage are the world's major medical and scientific communities etc..."  .
Accounts involved are: User:Sotavino, User:Atquaman, User:Abisaku, User:SG413K, and most recently, User:Ratterbat.
I'm not sure how to stop these socks, other than reverting their edits and reporting them to WP:SPI each time a new one appears. Perhaps pending changes protection would work? Bennv123 (talk) 04:24, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Note the current sock account: User:Espanion. Bennv123 (talk) 03:45, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: You can request protection at SPI, a reviewing admin may agree on the merit given the context. CMD (talk) 09:40, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Persistent sock targeting this article 

message: the latest eurobarometer in december 2023 showed an increase in support for same-sex in EU countries. Please add this to the article:
https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2972 Springtime95 (talk) 14:17, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eurobarometer's latest poll 

message: Faid17 (talk) 23:21, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe that Greece has already been added. Coulomb1 (talk) 02:17, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 15 February 2024 

message: I'm going to remove Nepal from the list of countries that legalized same-sex marriage. I found updated maps and none of them include Nepal. 
1. https://edition.cnn.com/world/same-sex-marriage-legal-countries-map-dg/index.html
2. https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/02/16/this-map-shows-you-where-same-sex-marriage-is-legal-around-the-world-and-theres-a-long-way-to-go/
3. https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/greece-has-legalised-same-sex-marriage-whose-next/ameik3g2k
4. https://www.hrc.org/resources/marriage-equality-around-the-world
I was right all along, while some wikiusers contributed to the spread of disinformation, just like they did with Armenia in 2017. I don't need their apologies for calling me a "vandal" and trying to block me. Everybody makes mistakes, they just need to admit they're wrong. It doesn't matter how much you love Bangladesh, Nepal, Somalia, Armenia etc. Critical thinking and common sense always come first. Cyanmax (talk) 16:47, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removing Nepal from the list  

message: Why are natural law arguments against same-sex marriage entirely excluded from the article? Where is Aquinas? The current article throws up strawman against thinkers that oppose it. CoolidgeCalvin (talk) 01:10, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Natural law arguments

message: I was wondering if it might be worth removing the Native American territories, US states, and Mexican states, and British overseas territories from the main timeline. I think it clutters the timeline quite a bit, (especially now that every Mexican state has legalised it). I'm not that opposed to keeping them, but I would be interested to hear others views. The sheer number of Native American territories does seem to clutter the list a lot. Perhaps instead there could be a footnote or section that explains which British territories, and Native American settlements have not legalised same-sex marriage now that the vast majority have. We could also move the dates for non-sovereign countries somewhere else. What do others think?  Jasp7676 (talk) 14:23, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm loathe to tinker with it. I get what you mean but since sovereign states have a flag icon, it's very quick to visually identify states vs small entitites. Akerbeltz (talk) 15:12, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

text: We once did what you suggest, but consensus was against it and we reverted. The short list is in the timeline article. — kwami (talk) 18:17, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Timeline

message: Now they allowed same sex marriage 2001:FB1:E7:6E3D:7529:7E7:D2E3:41DD (talk) 19:56, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Not yet. The proposal was merely approved by the lower house of the parliament. It still requires approval from the upper house and the royal assent also, and it will become law only after its publication in the official gazette. --Miwako Sato (talk) 13:44, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thailand law changes 

message: Maito Kismar R G10 Arroyo 3/29/24 2001:4456:C70:1800:B851:D4ED:F98F:3043 (talk) 08:01, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Same sex marriage 

message: Found relatively new public opinion polls in some Balkan countries. Don't know if it's reliable enough though
https://lgbti-era.org/publications/attitudes-towards-lgbtiq-people-in-the-western-balkans/ 5.197.129.202 (talk) 12:49, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: Please provide changes to be made in XY format; it is currently unclear what you want changed. Irltoad (talk) 09:23, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Public opinion  

message: Extra opinions with expertise on the subject are required in a discussion at Talk:Recognition of same-sex unions in Israel#The Nature of Legality. Thanks. Jdcooper (talk) 11:51, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request for extra opinions 

message: Please add this section under 'Studies'
The overall effects of legal access to same-sex marriage have been summarized by Badgett and co-authors.  The review found that sexual minority individuals took-up legal marriage when it became available to them (but at lower rates than different-sex couples). There is instead no evidence that same-sex marriage legalization affected different-sex marriages. On the health side, same-sex marriage legalization increased health insurance coverage for individuals in same-sex couples in the US, and it led to improvements in sexual health among men who have sex with men, while there is mixed evidence on mental health effects among sexual minorities. In addition, the study found mixed evidence on a range of downstream social outcomes such as attitudes toward LGBTQ+ people and employment choices of sexual minorities. Ds1289 (talk) 19:53, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Is that specific to the US? — kwami (talk) 21:54, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

text: Not done: According to the page's protection level you should be able to edit the page yourself. If you seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details.  Your account is now autoconfirmed.  RudolfRed (talk) 00:30, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 8 April 2024 

message: this article uses the term 'marriage'. I didn't want to make the claim here without confirmation. — kwami (talk) 04:12, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: According to the German media, in his speech in Berlin he referred to civil partnerships, not SSM   Akerbeltz (talk) 08:27, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: But that article also says "only 20% of Kosovars support same-sex unions" when that's actually the support for marriage. — kwami (talk) 06:31, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: <shrugs> I don't know. All I can imagine is that when you ask this question in parts of the world, people aren't necessarily aware of the difference. It's like people in Hong Kong conflating 'England' with the 'UK' I guess, they're mostly confused when I patiently try to explain that I live in Scotland, not England. Akerbeltz (talk) 09:10, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kosovo: SSM or CUs? 

message: With the United Methodist church accepting SSM, I came here thinking we probably have a list, but I can't find one. We have various articles on religion and SSM, but I'm thinking this article should include a list that allow their clergy to perform SSM, like we do for countries. Or would it be too difficult to create something coherent? — kwami (talk) 06:06, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Churches that support 

message: A recent addition was "gender-neutral marriage" in the lede as an alternative term. A quick google shows that this term mostly seems to appear on wikipedia, mostly in articles about same-sex marriage in Scandinavian regions. Generally this refers to the wording of the marriage canon etc being gender-neutral, not that the act of marriage is gender-neutral. I'm not aware of this being a significant alternative name for same-sex marriage at all.
The marriage using gender-neutral terms is not at all the same thing as same-sex marriage. Void if removed (talk) 21:54, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Scandinavian here to second this, you're basically correct. The law is called "gender-neutral marriage law" (well technically sex-neutral, it's the same word), so something like "marriage regardless of sex". Sometimes people writing about it will say things like "sex neutral marriages became law 10 years ago" interchangably with same-sex marriage, but it's clear they're just saying it because "gender-neutral marriage legislation reform" is a mouthful. EllyEdits (talk) 08:59, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  "gender-neutral marriage"