Talk:Han system

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* Han and provinces and daimyo: comparisons, differences, relationships, historical development
:Provinces were settled in an earlier era by the imperial court. It was originally an administrative division. Muromachi Bakufu appointed shugo daimyo each province and they governed the province. Most of shugo daimyo declined in the late Muromachi period and sengoku daimyo replaced them. Most of Sengoku daimyo were lesser samurai thna shugo daimyo but some shugo daimyo like Shimazu in the Satsuma province survived till the Edo period.
:In the Edo period the province remained as geographical names. To the contrary, Han was an local govermental structure and therefore meant the area each local goverment could reach their power. Not less numbers Han had exclaves with some reasons. The Han system was determined by the Tokugawa Shoguntate. The size of Han was varied but according to the Tokugawa Bakufu definition each Han had a dominion from which 10,000 koku rice were cropped by a year. And the daimyo was defined as the top of a Han and served directly the Shogun. If a man of a daimyo had a fief of over 10,000 koku, he didn't serve the Shogun but a daimyo, he was therefore no daimyo definitely. But government and dominion of such samurai were called Han, too for convinience.
:When the Tokugawa Shogunate fell, Han remained for a few years. But it was abolished at last and replace with the prefecture system which remains still today.
 
# Han and bakufu: again, comparisons, differences, relationships. Duties and obligations. Typical cases and exceptions. Tozama and fudai. Toritsubushi.
:The structure of Han and Shogunate was principally similar. Because Tokugawa Ieyasu, the founder of the bakufu kept the govermental structure which had settled by his ancestors when they were a small local daimyo in the Mikawa province. Some daimyo, specially whose ancestors had served the ancestors of the Shogun was a lord of his Han and a bureaucrat of the bakufu. Most of them governed from one to twelve koku fief. Other daimyo had no parmanent office in the bakufu but were appointed a temporal office.
:Each daimyo served the Shougun and should admit his right of governance by the Shogunate. The heir of each daimyo should have been admitted in advance by the Shogunate basically. When a son of blood or an adopted son of a daimyo was determined as a heir of his father, the younger went to the Chiyoda castle in Edo, the Shogun's castle and met the Shogun to receive the permission of heritage and his recognition. Principally if this procedure was ignored, the succession was cancelled by the Shogunate, and a Han was abolished. It was called Toritsubushi (scrapping) in Japanese.
:Though every daimyo was a man of the Shogun, their relationship were varied. Without personal reliance, the relationship of each Han and the Bakufu was determined and influence the relationship between the founder of the Han and the Shogunate or the ancestors' of the Tokugawa. Roughly there were three classifications, named Shinpan, Fudai and Tozama. There were another classification by size of dominion. 
# Han government: daimyo, karo, kanjo, metsuke, police, etc.
# Han economy: farming, forestry, fishing, commerce, specialty products, monopolies, hansatsu. Taxation.
# Han society: samurai, goshi, farmers, trades; castle and village relationships
# Han culture: shrines, temples, festivals, performances
Please add more! Fg2 07:16, Nov 8, 2004 (UTC)
:I tried to add some stuffs.
:::Admittedly, there's a lot that would overlap with topics covered in sankin kotai, daimyo, Edo period, Tokugawa shogunate, but nevertheless, these things are relevant to the subject and should be covered. The relationship between the han and the shogunate needs to be fleshed out - this is a hot topic in scholarship, and one which deserves further coverage. Some brief description of han that served special purposes or bore special distinctions could be described or at least listed, as well as some description of the areas directly administered by the shogunate and not part of any han. A map would be great too. And the history section needs to be made clearer. I'll take a look at this when I get a chance, see what I can do. LordAmeth 12:22, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: These are interesting articles, but sources should be quoted, preferably in-line citations.--Grahamec 02:28, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Han

message: Satsuma: 770,000. Obunsha Nihonshi Jiten p. 172 (Satsuma). Kaga: one million koku. Prior to 1639: 1.2 million; one leader split off some holdings making smaller fiefs and keeping a million (plus or minus) for the main fief. (p. 78) Fg2 21:50, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Cool. Thanks for the citation & explanation. LordAmeth 09:41, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kaga had highest ''kokudaka'' 

message: :Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *Support or *Oppose, then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.
*Comment that would seem to be easily confused with an administrative division named "Han" perhaps it should be Han (type of administrative division) ? 76.66.200.95 (talk) 06:03, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps a good argument for Han system? Srnec (talk) 04:33, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: This text was removed from the article because it has no cite support.  Without more, the analysis can not be distinguished from original research.
:;Comparison with provinces
: were established in an earlier era (mostly the 8th century) by the imperial court. The province was originally an administrative division of the central government, governed by governors sent by the imperial court in Kyoto for fixed terms. However by the late Heian era, central authority began to weaken and the governors find themselves increasingly challenged by local warriors. When the Kamakura Shogunate was established, it appointed samurai to each province as shugo daimyo, taking over responsibility for security and policing from court appointees.
:By the Muromachi period, however, the imperial court had lost virtually all administrative powers. The shugo daimyo were able to centralize their rule within each province, through the destruction of the manor system and vassalising the  kokujin. In doing so the daimyo slowly established unified and centralized governments within their territories. This process culminating in the han system, where each daimyo ruled their fiefs as unitary kingdoms, enjoying semi-independence from the shogunate where internal affairs are concerned.
:Under the Tokugawa Shogunate, daimyo are defined as samurais whose fief produced more than 10,000 koku each year. A domain of a daimyo was what is known as a han. Retainers of daimyo, even if they receive more than 10,000 koku (e.g. Katakura Kagetsuna of Sendai, or Inada Kurōbei of Tokushima), are not daimyo themselves and therefore their fiefs are not considered hans. However, a daimyo may create a second domain from his han and invest one of his non-inheriting sons, thereby creating a cadet branch. Rulers of such a new domain may receive recognition from the Shogun and become a daimyo in his own right; nonetheless often the new han remain dominated by the senior branch of the family in the original han.
:When the Tokugawa Shogunate fell, the han system remained in force for a few years into the Meiji period, but was subsequently replaced with the prefectures which remain in use today.
:; Bakufu 
:The structures of a han and the Bakufu were principally similar because Tokugawa Ieyasu, the founder of the bakufu, kept the governmental structure which his ancestors had developed when they were small local daimyo in Mikawa Province. Some daimyo, especially those whose ancestors had served the ancestors of the Shogun, were lords of the han and also bureaucrats of the bakufu. Most of them governed fiefs rated from one to twelve koku. Other daimyo had no permanent office in the bakufu but were appointed to a temporary office.
:Each daimyo served the Shogun and received the right of governance from the Shogunate. The heir of each daimyo was recognized in advance by the Shogunate. When a son of blood or an adopted son of a daimyo was determined as the heir of his father, the son went to Chiyoda castle in Edo and met the Shogun for recognition and permission to succeed. If this procedure was ignored, the succession was cancelled by the Shogunate, and a han was abolished in a practice called toritsubushi (scrapping) in Japanese.
:Though every daimyo swore loyalty to the Shogun, their relationships varied. Aside from personal factors, the relationship between each han and the bakufu was determined and influenced by the relationship between the founder of the han and the shogunate or the ancestors of the Tokugawa. Roughly there were three classifications: Shinpan (Tokugawa's relatives), Fudai (those who had been friendly to Tokugawa from before Sekigahara) and Tozama (those who were against Tokugawa at the time of Sekigahara). There was another classification by size of domain.
:; Rank 
:Han varied by size of projected income. Every han was classified by the shogunate mainly by koku. 
:The largest han occupied domains wider than a province and their daimyo were called kokushu, provincial lord. In Mutsu and Dewa provinces major daimyo were also granted this class, as their han occupied the whole province. Maeda, Shimazu, Ikeda, Date and other major daimyo were classified as provincial lords. 
:Some han were assigned to the highest rank provincial lord, even though their han were small, which could become a financial burden in some situations.
:The lowest ranked daimyo were forbidden to build a castle. In the early years of the Edo period the Shogunate enacted the one province, one castle policy but later multiple castles were built in a province.
With revisions, these paragraphs could be restored. --Ansei (talk) 15:11, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Missing cite support

message: Table moved here, as it is a list of provinces (and cities), not a list of domains, and hence is misleading.  Do not return unless it can be converted to domains. Bueller 007 (talk) 08:46, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Richest ''hans'' in early Edo period