Talk:Kenneth Patchen

message: The entire "other interesting facts" section is very unencyclopaedic.  If these facts are interesting, they should be integrated into the body of the article.  If they are not interesting (which is an entirely POV assertion, anyway) or, more to the point, cannot be verified, they have no place in the article at all.  Patchen deserves better than this sad excuse for an article.  We could, just for starters, create a section on his muscial collaborations, for example, his recordings with the Chamber Jazz Sextet, etc.  ---TheoldanarchistComhrá 17:05, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I like your edits. I am about to put that article on my watch list.  Albion moonlight 08:53, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you.  It still needs work, and I will appreciate having another set of eyes and hands on this one. ---TheoldanarchistComhrá 14:45, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Interesting facts"? 

message: Here's another short poem, that would be ideal as an example of Patchen's anti-war sentiments: , but can't be used in full because of copyright. Any use of an excerpt would really be missing the point, I think. But how can this YouTube video  not be a copyright breach? In fact, there are quite a few such at YouTube. And they are all excellent. But as far as I can see, we can't even link to them from here? He had a wonderfuly laconic, even sardonic, delivery, and that really helps with some of his poems. It's very difficult to include the performance quality of an artist in an encyclopedia. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:05, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  YouTube 

message: It's obvious that how the lines of the poem are broken depends upon what size of screen one is viewing; on my screen a width of 260px gave a faithful preservation of 4 lines. So I'll leave it. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:16, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, and it's also a function of zoom size. I cannot really comment as I typically use a very large zoom factor to be able to read anything. But at 100%, 125% and even 150%, my display was not breaking any of the lines, in either quote boxes, when they were set to 150px. Obviously it's better to be on the safe side by allowing enough width. I fully agree with Jpcohen that, in most poetry, line construction shold be preserved at all costs. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:24, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

text: These little stanzas are a cinch compared with some poets. Wikipedia must favour those with seven-or-eight-words-to-a-line! But some of Patchen's verse has lines so long that it starts to look like prose. In fact, he did also do some free-form stuff that looks exactly as if it is narrative prose - maybe we should include some of that! Martinevans123 (talk) 22:46, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Quotebox width

message: I am geniunely surprised that "Once the Beats' popularity grew, however, Patchen disliked.. " is judged "grammaticaly awkward" in Ametican English ,compared with "However, once the Beats' popularity grew, Patchen disliked ..". I was equally surprised that "Those mills would later be referenced in such poems as .." was considered "awkward phrasing" compared with "Those mills would later be referenced in poems like .." I both casaes, I think, the preferred Britsh Engish variant is the former. But as this is about an American poet, I am quite willing take advice. The meaning isn't affected, so it's no big deal. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:33, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: You are quite right, Jp. Of course, there are plenty of Brits who think there ain't no such word as "grammar" in the American language! Shame on them. But I ain't gotten around to getting too done mad about it, haha. Maybe this article ought to be written in Beat grammar style, ya dig. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:55, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I dig.Jpcohen (talk) 01:11, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  However 

message: *1. Although the Google Maps link is very useful, and does indeed point to a street with the right name, don't we also need a source which actually descrbes the re-naming? 
*2. Shouldn't we give publishers, linked if possible, for all the books in the Bibliography, even if also given in the text? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:28, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that it would be ideal to have a local source about the re-naming. Unfortunately, the Warren/Niles area newspapers don't have very good websites so I was unable to find an article about the re-naming of the street. But I do know that the street where he grew up in Niles was renamed "Patchen Avenue." The only online proof I could find was the actual street listed on Google maps (which is at the intersection of where Patchen was born and first lived). One would probably have to go to the Warren library to find an article on the re-naming. I'm a local so I know that they keep a collection of books and articles about/by Patchen in their special collection. They could probably provide a local resource on it.Jpcohen (talk) 16:18, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, that's pretty clear. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:31, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

text: As far as publishers go, I think you should feel free to add the publishers of his books if you like (even if they're mentioned in the text). I don't see why not.Jpcohen (talk) 17:08, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, I'll try. Any help much appreciated. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:31, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minor points 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110713170034/http://www.impulse-music.co.uk/bedcat.htm to http://www.impulse-music.co.uk/bedcat.htm
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120329201942/http://library.ucsc.edu/book/export/html/1566 to http://library.ucsc.edu/book/export/html/1566
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thread_title:  External links modified