Talk:Hurricane Katrina/Archive 1

message: Look at this:  The named major storms that were within 400 miles of Katrina in the month of August. Allen, Celia, Camille, Andrew. If you remove Celia from the list, you have three of the most powerful Atlantic storms ever - and two struck land at intensity. Katrina sure has a nice pedigree. --Golbez 08:55, August 27, 2005 (UTC)
:Celia was no pussycat either...it was a borderline Category 3/4 storm but had strong gusts at landfall... CrazyC83 15:23, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: And those were all first to third storms of the season (A-C names) - this is the 11th (K name), and it is still August . . . MPF 22:04, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Holy cow

message: Should we start to list evacuation orders by parish? Or just link to the emergency web sites, like this Louisiana Emergency Preparedness? Awolf002 18:29, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: If it has links to the local site, then only the central link. Otherwise, all of them should be listed. All states affected should be listed though. CrazyC83 18:33, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Preparedness links? 

message: Becoming a category 5 or not, somebody should cover implications on global oil price.
:Oil Storm eh? --TIB (talk) 13:56, August 28, 2005 (UTC)
:Any word on if this storm has caused damage to offshore oil rigs?--JD79 19:02, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: As of 1:45EST, it's being said that Pres. Bush will be making a decision later today on whether or not to loan out part of the Strategic Petroleum Reserve to make up for lost capacity.  Note the semantics: if it's loan, then the gov't will be given the oil back by industry later, so there won't be a large decrease in current prices, just the avoidance of a large increase.  (Correct me if I'm wrong, it's all very fluid, no pun intended.)  --JD79 17:53, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oil supply vulnerability 

message: I just heard on the Weather Channel that for the first time in history, a mandatory evacuation of New Orleans has been issued. However, I won't put it in the article until I can corroborate it online, which I haven't been able to yet. --Golbez 06:59, August 28, 2005 (UTC)
:I just heard on the same channel that the mayor was considering it. On CNN.com, I could swear I saw the text "mandatory" on it. Currently on CNN and MSNBC, they're doing Larry King Live and MSNBC Investigates, none of which are talking about Katrina. But I was suprised when I turned to TWC and saw a 8 PM to 4 AM long program for special coverage of Katrina! -- RattleMan 07:05, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: A mandatory evacuation is being considered for the first time ever in the major American city of New Orleans
Is this true? A mandatory evacuation has never even been considered before? Evercat 12:56, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Evacuation 

message: I would just like to point out that Katrina is right now at a category 4. Have you ever looked at Hurricane Betsy in 1965? Well its very intriguing that Katrina has taken almost the same direct path. Hurricane Betsy was a Hurricane 5.  Also Hurricane Andrew, Betsy and now Katrina are hurricanes that went through Florida and then into Louisiana. Hurricane Andrew as you all know was a category 5 aswell.
:Andrew was not a 5 the second time it made landfall, in Louisiana. By that time it was "only" a 3. Mike H (Talking is hot) 08:33, August 28, 2005 (UTC)
Betsy reached 155mph at its peak, 50 miles off the coast of Louisiana. By comparison, Katrina measured 150mph and strengthening, 270 miles off the coast.
Its at 160 mph and nothing stoping it.
175mph now per CNN.--CFIF 14:51, August 28, 2005 (UTC)
:Could this hit 200 mph? Scary to think, this may beat out even Super Typhoon Tip in the western Pacific...CrazyC83 14:57, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: CFIF - CNN gets their info from the NHC/TPC.  Check their website here for info straight from the horses mouth, so to speak. ;) --tomf688<TALK> 15:38, August 28, 2005 (UTC)
Not a chance this is beating out Tip. With winds or pressure. Hell, this may not even beat out Gilbert.
E. Brown, Hurricane enthusiast - Squawk Box 23:42, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hurricane Andrew, Betsy and now Katrina. 

message: Once Katrina makes landfall, and the pictures of the devastation come in, it is not over. My thought right now is that the ENTIRE inland path will be affected by at least tropical storm force, if not hurricane force, winds, and potentially catastrophic flooding. Enormous rain in (mostly) already saturated areas with the eastern end of Katrina pointing at the Appalachians is just asking for epic flooding. If you are in a low-lying area anywhere in the 3-day path, consider evacuating, no matter how far inland you are. The $100B in damage from New Orleans could easily grow to $120B if the catastrophic flooding affects urban areas. CrazyC83 15:07, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Don't forget 

message: Has Katrina been underestimated from the beginning? I am starting to think that she should have been named much earlier, been upgraded to a hurricane much earlier and was really a Category 2 hurricane at first landfall. The pressure readings also often made little sense for her category - until now. They have finally caught up to her it seems... CrazyC83 15:42, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Apparently wind speeds lag the pressure drop. As I understand it, the pressure differences (between the center and edge of the hurricane) are an indication of the forces spinning up the hurricane's winds. A large hurricane (in area) like Katrina takes more work to spin up. So you have a longer lag time before the winds pick up. -- KarlHallowell 21:19, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Has Katrina been underestimated... 

message: Could somebody double check the number of people she's already killed?  The info box says 6 direct, 3 indirect, which equals 9.  Down below, the text says 9, then breaks it down by location to 3+1+4, which is 8.  Either the geographic breakdown's missing a death (and place?), or the other sections are wrong.  The Literate Engineer 15:54, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Not sure if it helps but the NYTimes.com article currently states "Hurricane Katrina churned through the Gulf of Mexico on Friday, after cutting a swath through southern Florida and leaving seven people dead. Three people who died in the hurricane were crushed by falling trees. One man lost control of his car and rammed into a tree. Three others drowned, including two who tried to ride out the storm in a houseboat."--JD79 19:08, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fatalities 

message: ===Hurricane Betsy===
"New Orleans' worst hurricane disaster happened 40 years ago, when Hurricane Betsy blasted the Gulf Coast. Flooding approached 20 feet deep in some areas, fishing villages were flattened, and the storm surge left almost half of New Orleans under water and 60,000 residents homeless." 
Hurricane Betsy was a powerful storm of the 1965 Atlantic hurricane season, which caused enormous damage in the Bahamas, Florida, and Louisiana. 
Betsy was one of the most intense, deadly, and costly storms to make landfall in the United States. Betsy was just short of Category 5 strength at landfall in Louisiana. The storm killed 76 people, which makes it one of the most deadly hurricanes to hit the US (as of 2004, number 18). Betsy caused $1.42 billion in damage, which when adjusted for inflation amounts to $8.5 billion (2000 dollars), placing Betsy as the seventh most expensive storm to make landfall in the U.S.
WAS 4.250 16:12, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Deleted content

message: "New Orleans' worst hurricane disaster happened 40 years ago, when Hurricane Betsy blasted the Gulf Coast. Flooding approached 20 feet deep in some areas, fishing villages were flattened, and the storm surge left almost half of New Orleans under water and 60,000 residents homeless." 
Hurricane Betsy was a powerful storm of the 1965 Atlantic hurricane season, which caused enormous damage in the Bahamas, Florida, and Louisiana. 
Betsy was one of the most intense, deadly, and costly storms to make landfall in the United States. Betsy was just short of Category 5 strength at landfall in Louisiana. The storm killed 76 people, which makes it one of the most deadly hurricanes to hit the US (as of 2004, number 18). Betsy caused $1.42 billion in damage, which when adjusted for inflation amounts to $8.5 billion (2000 dollars), placing Betsy as the seventh most expensive storm to make landfall in the U.S.
WAS 4.250 16:12, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Hurricane Betsy

message: The effect of Hurricane Katrina on the Mississippi Delta will include changes to river flow, damage to wetlands, and disruption of oil supply thus affecting oil prices.
Hurricane Katrina is certain to remake the paths of the 
Mississippi Delta bayou due to storm surge and flooding thoughout the Mississippi embayment. 
Larger river shifts can not be predicted. But the mouth of the Mississippi River has shifted repeatedly over time. Since a canal was built in the early nineteenth century, the river has been seeking the Atchafalaya River mouth, some 60 miles (95 km) from New Orleans. The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers maintains a massive system of locks to keep the river in its present course.
The flood waters will futher wash away already endangered wetlands. "According to the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS), "the swamps and marshes of coastal Louisiana are among the Nation's most fragile and valuable wetlands, vital not only to recreational and agricultural interests but also the State's more than $1 billion per year seafood industry." Louisiana's wetlands (within 80 miles of the coast and extending for just under 200 miles along the coast) represent about 40 percent of the wetlands in the continental United States; they also show about 80 percent of the Nation's wetland losses." 
"Louisiana is a primary producer of energy resources. The state provides about 15 percent of the nation's crude petroleum and over 20 percent of its natural gas supplies. The combined value of these two products averaged $16 billion annually for the 1986-91 period. Nearly 90 percent of this output is extracted from the coastal area and adjacent offshore waters. Abundant supplies of crude petroleum and natural gas, fresh process water, and nearby water transportation account for the concentration of refining and petrochemical manufacturing facilities located in the project area, primarily along the Mississippi and Calcasieu rivers. These industries, which rank Louisiana as the nation's third largest chemical producer, ship commodities valued at nearly $50 billion annually. There were over 90,000 refining and refining-related jobs in the state during 1992." 
WAS 4.250 16:12, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Mississippi Delta

message: Does anyone have information about the expected strength of levies and dams around New Orleans? Streyeder
:I've heard they can withstand flooding waters of 14 feet. --tomf688<TALK> 17:09, August 28, 2005 (UTC)
:That would be a Category 3 hurricane, although with waves it would likely only withstand a Category 2 hurricane. CrazyC83 17:26, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: New Orleans Levies and Dams

message: What's the source for 184? Last I heard, it's still at 175. Mike H (Talking is hot) 20:31, August 28, 2005 (UTC)
:The Weather Channel was saying 184. --CFIF 20:32, August 28, 2005 (UTC)
::A screenshot of the 184 wind reading would be good if there is one available, kinda like this one I took earlier today. Mike H (Talking is hot) 20:34, August 28, 2005 (UTC) (PS Here are some more.)
:::There was never an official source for 184, I believe it's something TWC incorrectly calculated. The 5:00 advisory has just been released, with winds down to 165 despite a pressure drop to 902. The Great Zo 20:44, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm guessing that they took the 160 knot flight-level winds which were reported... and converted it to MPH (which by a rough guess would probably be around 184 MPH). Obviously, there's many reasons why it's improper to simply do that. The Great Zo 01:11, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: 184 mph

message: In 2004, Hurricane Ivan made landfall near New Orleans, but although it was a Category 5 storm at times during its passage through the Caribbean and Gulf, by the time it reached the Louisiana coast it had fallen in strength to Category 3.
Ivan made landfall in Gulf Shores, Alabama, which is at least 150 miles away, probably closer to 200, so this really isn't serving anyone a purpose by having that sentence in the article; it's not correct. Mike H (Talking is hot) 21:45, August 28, 2005 (UTC)
It should be removed entirely in my opinion. It's inaccurate and irrelevant.
E. Brown, Hurricane enthusiast - Squawk Box 23:47, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Ivan near New Orleans

message: They were providing two-hour updates and position fixes every hour before Katrina's landfall in Florida, but they're sticking to the three-hour updates now, even though Katrina is much stronger and far more dangerous.  Any guesses why? --tomf688<TALK> 01:25, August 29, 2005 (UTC)
:Probably they will start after the 10:00 advisory. In addition, hourly position estimates will likely be initiated. CrazyC83 01:44, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  NHC/TPC updates 

message: When I'm trying to edit or save changes I get the following error message:
 Fatal error: Call to a member function on a non-object in
 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.5/includes/Parser.php on line 380
Am I doing something wrong? Thank you. -- CBasturea 01:55, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Apache editing error? 

message: 170.20.96.59 has just updated this article to state that, if the hurricane's winds exceed 200 mph, it'll be considered a "Category 6" hurricane. Is that true? Unlike the Fujita scale for tornadoes, I've never heard of even a disputed "Category 6." If true, the statement should say "maximum sustained winds," since there have already been reports of gusts above 200 mph. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs, blog) 02:06, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: There's a lot of ridiculous crap out there. This storm's highest winds (175 by most reports), doesn't scare Camille/Allen's 190!
E. Brown, Hurricane enthusiast - Squawk Box 01:39, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Category 6? 

message: Does anyone know if hurricane landings are correlated with time of day? Does one hour of the day see more landfalls (i.e. mornings)? Does one time of day yield greater damage (i.e. a 4am landfall causes fewer casualties)?
Just curious, --211.31.69.6 02:27, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, Predicted landfall (Grand Isle 08:00)  is just one hour after the scheduled high tide (2.5 feet) . But Lake Ponchatrain has high tide some 8 hours later, only showing a tidal difference of a half a foot...so this is a relative blip. 
Landfall's measured by the edge of the eye, right?  Or is it when sustained hurricane-force winds reach land?  The Literate Engineer 03:36, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

text: I believe it's either eyewall or estimated eye center.  So, as of landfall, full force winds have already been felt for some time. Donovan Ravenhull 03:44, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

text: Landfall is when the center of circulation crossing the shoreline. --Holderca1 15:14, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question regarding Landfall Times 

message: I have added a section regarding consequences on the Space Shuttle Program in case of major damage to Michoud Assembly Facility.Hektor 02:53, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Space Shuttle Program

message: We probably ought to start thinking now about how we're going to handle links to donation sites, and the related items.  Clearly this is going to be another tsunami class incident; can someone attract an admin about front-paging?--Baylink 04:56, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Clearly the media has made you BELIEVE this will be "another tsunami class incident."  It may not be as bad as the Boogeymen in the news media have tried to make it seem; it's best to wait it out 24 hours or so and THEN see about donations.  --Stroker And Hoop 05:02, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't see the death toll breaking 100,000 and the US is in far better postion to handle this problem than the goverments of the countries on the reciveing end of the tsunami were. there is also the issue that has been a fair bit of advanced warning.Geni 11:39, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the big problem is that Geraldo Rivera hasn't gotten laryngitis yet.  If you were watching him last night, you'd think that New Orleans was going to be washed off the face of the earth and all the people replaced with zombie corpses that were yanked out of the ground by all the water.  --Spanky The Clown 12:21, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

text: There will still be major crap and a lot of aid will be necessary - mainly to help the refugees who won't exactly be able to go back to New Orleans next week. As to death toll, I can't see it getting anywhere near 100,000, but I can sure see it breaking the current US hurricane record (8,000 deaths from the Galveston hurricane). ~~ N (t/c) 13:12, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Y'all were right, and I was wrong.  :-}  If it had hit head on, we might have lost up into 5 digits; I think we got *insanely* lucky.--Baylink 01:51, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prep: Donation links 

message: So I've engaged in a major refactoring of the article prior to it making landfall, removing a fair amount of duplicated content and restructing the sections more sensibly. I think it reads much more nicely now. -- Seth Ilys 05:42, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reformatting 

message: To whoever fixed the vandalism, I appreciate it.
:Don't mention it. Thats what we do here. Its part of the "Neighborhood Watch", if you will, and because of its current tag will most likely be monitered all night and most of tommarrow. TomStar81 07:30, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thanks 

message: Hurricanes are like cats, I swear! They find the one place that absolutly hates them and then charge straight for it. I gotta say, I really feel for all you Louisianans out their, and all you New Orlens people the most. TomStar81 07:35, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I thought that all places absolutely hate hurricanes. --Holderca1 15:16, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: We don't mind them all that much in far western Kentucky.  In fact, we could use one; there's a bad drought.  Of course, the local opinion might be slightly influenced by hurricanes becoming glorified rainstorms by the time they reach the Purchase. 24.34.190.187 10:06, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Katrina 

message: Sensor data shows swells to 7 feet in the Gulf. NOAA Center for Operational Oceanographic Products and Services
Water heights up 9 feet in Lake Ponchatrain East Bank 1, Norco
Pressures down to 930mb
Pilots Station East, SW Pass , LA
--kradak 09:38, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some raw data. Interesting stuff 

message: Or at least the ones on the flanks.  Looks like Kat has made its next landfall on the end of the Missippi Delta.  Here in Mobile, its pretty wet and windy, but still only Tropical Storm levels.  Shouldn't get toooo bad here, but could if Kat does like Dennis and Ivan and makes a deflection east as it makes landfall.  Hope the folks between the Mississippi line and the Texas line make it out okay. Donovan Ravenhull 11:44, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, this wikipedian survived Katrina with mimimal damage here in Mobile, AL, though I can see massive damage in town. Glad I ain't west of here. Donovan Ravenhull 12:32, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  View from the Trenches 

message: Looks like the worst of it will just miss New Orleans to the East? Evercat 12:37, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: New Orleans is pretty much lucky.  The worst part of the hurricane is on the east side.  New Orleans will be receiving the west side of the hurricane.  Obviously, there's still going to be damage and flooding but not as severe if there were hit with the east side of the hurricane. 207.30.145.6 12:49, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not so sure about that, especially for the eastern part of town which lies in the eyewall. It is not moving very fast so the difference in wind speed (150 mph vs. 135 mph) will not be that noticeable. Plus the storm surge is now more likely to come up as it would be pointing across the I-10 bridge onto Lake Pontchartrain, not over the marshes west of town. CrazyC83 13:51, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

text: Unconfirmed reports from WDSU/WAPT say that levees protecting Jefferson Parish from Lake Pontchartrain have been breached. Zzxcnet 14:30, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

text: CNN Confirms Levy Breach "As the death toll from Hurricane Katrina reaches at least 56, a levee holding back the waters of Lake Pontchartrain has reportedly sustained a breach two blocks long in the Lakefront area of New Orleans." CNN.com  --64.81.67.171 08:13, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: New Orleans?

message: Based on apparent HAM radio operator's home video driving through New Orleans somehow shown on WDSU before the live stream went offline seemed to indicate looting.  One window (and only one window) to a pharmacy was broken, and people carrying bags were walking through the streets.  It's not clear how this got on to the station.  This video started playing after the WAPT link went down. Zzxcnet 16:00, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Could someone else who was watching the live stream confirm that this is what they saw?  I think this deserves a mention on the article page under recent developments.  I do have it archived, in case someone really wants to see the video. Zzxcnet 16:13, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: CNN just confirmed 20 or 30 people looting a store in New Orleans. -Loren 16:51, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe I saw this; the view was tinted green, and it seemed to be shot from the dash of somebody's off-roader. It was eerie, although the devastation wasn't as bad as it could have been. The feed ended with a short clip of a bomb disposal robot and then clicked off - I assumed it was commentary-free reportage. There was a family in a house who seemed fairly well-off, but the pharmacy had lots of broken windows, and the people walking in the street didn't seem to have bags to me. There was however a zoom-in shot of a single window on the top floor of a blocky, anonymous building with curtains blowing out, but it looked like storm damage. The whole place seems like a potential magnet for looters, though. -Ashley Pomeroy 17:51, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I saw a video on WBRZ of folks pushing a shopping cart from a store to a house across the street. The announcers said the video was filmed by a mobile news crew, that the store was Winn Dixie. I doubt I'd characterize that as 'widespread looting.' RPellessier | (Talk) 05:06, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Looting shown on WDSU? 

message: Does anyone know where I can find hurricane tracks? Not just the direction they took but satellite images of them developing as they advance to the U.S., I have been searching but unable to find anyplace that has this.
66.176.9.197 18:53, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hurricane Tracks 

message: I don't have figures on what the storms were at landfall, but obviously Camille and Labor Day were 1 and 2 - but was Katrina's 918mb more intense than Andrew or Ivan at landfall? --Golbez 19:41, August 29, 2005 (UTC)
I made this box and just pasted it to the historical analysis section, but I cannot get any text to wrap it's side. If anyone can fix it so the section's paragraphs align up against it, that'd be great. 71.32.199.15 20:02, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Does the Atlantic Basin include the Gulf of Mexico?  If not, then Katrina should not rank that high on the Atlantic Basin list.  It was only a category 1 when it hit Florida.  It was never more than a Category 1 until it left the Atlantic Ocean and entered the gulf.  Johntex 20:09, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

text: Hmm. Good question. I would say yes, for now, since the Weather Channel source said so. But if anyone can find something that contradicts it, perhaps we should change it. I am pretty sure the Weather Channel is right though, even hurricanes that form in the Gulf become part of the Atlantic hurricane season. 71.32.199.15 20:12, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

text: Also, if you follow the link given to the Weather Channel, it goes to a blog where the author is talking about big hurricanes.  It is not completely clear to me that the ones he mentions are definitively the biggest.  In other words, he could just be picking a few examples, not all examples.  The NOAA information is actually a table of hurricanes, so that does look more definitive.  Although their table goes to 2004 so obviously does not list Katrina.  If we use the table, we should be clear that the data used information from NOAA, as opposed to NOAA making a ranking of this particicular hurricane.  Johntex 20:19, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

text: I mean that Katrina did not "make NOAA's ranking" simply because the table was created before Katrina.  I think it is likely that NOAA, when they come out with a new ranking at some point in the future, would list Katrina where your table does.  However, until NOAA says where Katrina ranks, we are putting words in their mouth to determine Katrina's rank ourselves and attribute the source as NOAA.  We have to steer clear of original research.  Johntex 20:34, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

text: When they say "Atlantic Basin", they don't mean "Atlantic Ocean" - they mean, as opposed to the East Pacific Basin, the West Pacific Basin, the Indian Ocean Basin, etc. Atlantic hurricane basin includes Gulf and Caribbean. --Golbez 21:47, August 29, 2005 (UTC)
*Hi Golbez, can you find a good source for that statement?  I find some sites using the two terms (Atlantic Basin) and (Atlantic Ocean) interchangeably, while others like this one  seem to say the Atlantic Basin is a subset of the Atlantic Ocean.  Johntex 21:53, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

text: Basin in a general term is all of the water that drains into that particular body of water.  For example, the Mississippi River basin includes the Ohio, Missouri, Arkansas, Tennessee rivers, ect...  The Atlantic Ocean basin or Atlantic Basin includes the Caribbean Sea, Gulf of Mexico, Gulf of St. Lawrence, Mediterranean Sea, Black Sea, North Sea, Labrador Sea, Baltic Sea, Norwegian Sea, and Greenland Sea. --Holderca1 22:08, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: That depends on what definition you use, some refer to the Atlantic Ocean as only the main body of water and don't include the attached gulfs and seas, others do include those as part of the Atlantic Ocean.  Personnaly I do not consider the Gulf of Mexico or Caribbean Sea as part of the Atlantic Ocean, but I do consider them part of the Atlantic Basin.  --Holderca1 22:23, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Your definition seems logical to me.  If it is correct, then we have defined Atlantic Ocean too broadly over at that article.  Johntex 22:25, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  3rd most intense in the USA? 

message: Mentioning the postponement of the MTV music awards in the same sentence as saying that nine people died seems a little in bad taste.  It's not even like they cancelled the awards ceremony or anything.  It still went ahead, and it seems to me that this really has no relevance to the central story of hurricane Katrina.  I think this line should be removed, anyone else agree?
:I agree, although I'll admit I thought it was somewhat hilarious when I first read it. Sarge Baldy 20:48, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: (note - proposal to remove the line was by User:Kbradnam).  I don't mind if the sentence is split apart to avoid talking deaths and music awards in the same sentence, but I do think the information should stay in the article.  It was, after all, one of the oft-cited effects of the storm.  Johntex 20:55, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

text: Does anybody know how much the MTV Video Awards were 'postponed' by?  Would 'delayed' be a better choice of word? Nod 21:32, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: (Above post actaully by User:Kbradnam).  I can't find a source at the moment, but I think only prelude events were cancelled or postponed.  I think the ceremony went on as scheduled.  Johntex 21:37, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

text: I disagree, it's noteworthy. However, it should be in its own paragraph, along with any other less-than-important effects. ~~ N (t/c) 22:24, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  I disagree. It seems quite tasteless. --Titoxd 22:40, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  It happened. It's notable. Taste isn't really an issue. It definitely should be out of the lead section, though. ~~ N (t/c) 22:46, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  That's what I meant. It was too prominent. But that has been fixed now. Thanks. --Titoxd 22:50, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Postponement of MTV awards, a little irrelevant? 

message: Please use edit summary to describe the additions or changes. Thank you. --Vsion 21:16, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please use edit summary. 

message: At this point there is so much information, repeated constantly as well as irreleveant information (including a long description of Hurricaine Betsy) that the article is starting to lose its usefulness.  I wewnt through and removed all the duplicate info, but it was restored.  Please do not leave duplicate info. You aren't helping anyone by making it harder to get a clear and concise description of events, both current and recent. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.237.181.35 (talk • contribs) 22:38, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Not to mention, due to the nature of this storm, this requires a HUGE article. This is an unprecedented situation here! CrazyC83 22:42, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: What? Unprecedented? Bigger than Ben Hur?? Katrina is getting way too much attention. Is it far more serious than the 1918 Spanish Flu or the 1906 San Francisco Earthquake?? Have a look at the articles. There is more on Katrina than both of these combined. Leistung 09:14, 30 August 2005 (EST)
All things in time. It will shrink naturally as needs dictate. But right now, the volume of information outweighs the need to trim it. Deleting information now, unless it's blatantly duplicated, is highly counter productive. --Golbez 22:54, August 29, 2005 (UTC)
For example, the section on Risk to New Orleans could largely be moved to a separate article linked to New Orleans.  The risk doesn't pass with Katrina.--Kbk 23:22, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article Bloat 

message: Wikinews's main headline is still "New Orleans announces mandatory evacuation"; this article seems far more current. Think that's just a function of more contributors on WP? ~~ N (t/c) 22:50, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I'm afraid that the prominence of Wikipedia makes it more prone for active Wiki-news-editors to come here instead of Wikinews. But that's something good in a way. --Titoxd 23:16, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikinews far behind 

message: I straightened out the intro somewhat in order to reduce awkwardness and improve the summary nature of the introductory paragraph, but I know it still needs more work. Jpers36 23:27, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intro 

message: Considering the circumstances and the amount of vandals that have come, this has to be one of the most organized and best maintained article sites I have ever seen for a current event. Truly remarkable. This sets the standard for hurricane pages, and even for current events as a whole! CrazyC83 01:56, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Aw... <kick> <shuffle>  Thanks.  :-)--Baylink 02:27, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

text: Almost makes seeing the Goatse pic in ASCII form three times last night worth it ;) -Loren 05:11, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, crap.  Don't watch the Talk page... :-)--Baylink 03:13, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is there a Wikipedia award? 

message: WDSU has just reported that the Harrison County, MS EOC has just reported 50 storm-related deaths.--Baylink 03:12, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: While I can believe that number, we should wait for more confirmation - they heavily overestimated with Charley ("dozens" reported dead in Punta Gorda, in reality less than 10 died there). CrazyC83 03:15, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Nevermind, it is now widely reported. For now, they should be listed as direct deaths unless an indirect cause is mentioned (i.e. building fire). CrazyC83 03:25, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Harrison MS deaths 

message: Is there a better way to illustrate the chart of fatalities by state? An "inland" death chart listing (as of now) the single death in Georgia, and separated from the totals of Miss., La., Ala., and Fla. Seems to me these charts should be merged, but it wouldn't be appropriate under only coastal or inland headings. Thoughts?  --Twigboy 03:17, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The inland chart will likely grow as deaths from Tennessee, Kentucky, Ohio, New York and Ontario, among other states/provinces are eventually added... after all, Katrina has only just started affecting the inland areas. The listings will eventually grow. CrazyC83 03:26, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I understand, but my point is that the distinction between coastal/inland fatalities seems to be arbitrary. For example, Hinds County, MS appears to be more than 100 miles inland, yet it's listed as "coastal." Is it coastal just because it's in a state that has a Gulf coast?  --Twigboy 03:48, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Coastal states here are MS, AL, LA and FL - the states directly affected from the coastal impact. It is easiest to keep the states together (so, even if it happens in, say, Huntsville AL, it will go in the coastal list under Alabama). Inland states(/provinces) are everything else. CrazyC83 04:01, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: There should be a table that present the total tally, coastal and inland. How about a new section call "Summary on casualities", just before the two sections?  --Vsion 04:12, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fatality charts 

message: *Anyone else notice a striking similarity in the path of Andrew to Katrina's? I thought Katrina was following a strange path until I saw Andrew. Through lower Florida, across the Gulf, through Louisiana, and back up towards the Northeast. Staxringold 05:04, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Hurricane Andrew]] 

message: CNN is reporting there is a two block wide breach in the 17th St Canal levee. Lake Pontchartrain is pouring into Orleans Parish. Water around Tulane University Hospital is rising one inch every minute. Won't put in article until corroborated online. --Golbez 06:38, August 30, 2005 (UTC)
: CNN has just reported it again, statement from the Army Corps of Engineers on the breach is expected within the next two hours. Also reported here (second article down): -Loren 07:40, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Per CNN 0302 CDT: Hospital evacuations temporarily placed on hold. Army Corps of Engineers currently in meeting discussing levee breach. -Loren 08:03, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: 200 ft break confirmed by NOFD officials. -Loren 08:18, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Levee break 

message: I moved the section on "Previous Prediction" to Predictions of hurricane risk for New Orleans. I feel this is the most suitable section to be transfered. Ok?  --Vsion 07:42, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  moved section on "Previous Prediction"  

message: This section is still on the page: "Katrina may come close to the Ohio River Valley, even scraping southern Illinois, causing storms to rise from the remnants that are left behind."  The forecast track doesn't have it coming anywhere near there, instead crossing the Kentucky line around Hopkinsville and heading into Indiana or Ohio.  It hasn't been forecast to go through the Purchase or Illinois to my knowledge (if it does, good, we need the rain) - flood watches don't even cover any county north or west of Graves.  
Also, is it true that TVA is opening spillways?  I heard (as of Sunday) the rivers were low enough to impede barge traffic. 24.34.190.187 10:47, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Katrina in S. Illinois and the Purchase? 

message: From the intro, last para:
.... and 80% of New Orleans is said to be under water. Currently 750,000 people are without power in the New Orleans area, and it may be several weeks before power is restored. The parts of the city with the worst flooding were in the east, where the storm was most severe. Roughly 40% of the city is under water...
I'm thinking it's one or the other, personally... J.K. 10:58, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I removed the 40% and put the 25 foot deep with the eighty percent. That's coming from an interview with the New Orleans mayor, though, for full disclosure, he said "The city of New Orleans is in a state of devastation. We probably have 80 percent of our city underwater. With some sections of our city, the water is as deep as 20 feet." So I guess we should just quote that directly, since he said probably, too. Dafrito 11:10, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I like the idea of the quote, but can you find a cite? J.K. 11:38, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  CNN cites it here, I believe.  Fifth paragraph or so. Dafrito 11:48, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

text:  Reuters cites the quote here, too,  Dafrito 11:51, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

text:  Yeah, here's the video of the interview.  Dafrito 11:55, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intro inconsistency 

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I have just modified 18 external links on Hurricane Katrina. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 8 external links on Hurricane Katrina. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131219105454/http://www.nws.noaa.gov/om/assessments/pdfs/Katrina.pdf to http://www.nws.noaa.gov/om/assessments/pdfs/Katrina.pdf
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello. I am VERY new to Wikipedia, and while researching an unrelated topic I found this postmortem analysis of the apparent interconnected dysfunctions among government, private sector and even individuals from a person inside FEMA during the Katrina period. I do not know if it meets criteria for inclusion, and would prefer to let an experienced editor judge. https://www.bernsteincrisismanagement.com/newsletter/crisis-manager-080831.html#cmu CyndiMcIncheese (talk) 16:55, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you may be looking for the page Criticism of government response to Hurricane Katrina. --MarioProtIV (talk/contribs) 19:44, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks ! CyndiMcIncheese (talk) 15:31, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism of government response 

message: Hello all. User:MarioProtIV has modified the lead in a way I find highly unencyclopedic. On 29 October 2016 he changed it from:
:Hurricane Katrina  was the eleventh named storm and fifth hurricane of the 2005 Atlantic hurricane season. It was the costliest natural disaster, as well as one of the five deadliest hurricanes, in the history of the United States.
to:
:Hurricane Katrina was the costliest natural disaster, as well as one of the five deadliest hurricanes, in the history of the United States.
He removed a key phrase which described the article's subject, instead giving preeminence to the subject's historical importance. This is wrong for an encyclopedia: You should start by the describing what the subject actually is before expounding its significance.
He did this again twice on 26 August 2017 and 27 August 2017 on my own edits:
This:
:Hurricane Katrina was a tropical cyclone that hit the southeastern coast of the United States in August 2005. It was the costliest natural disaster and one of the five deadliest hurricanes in the country's history.
became:
:Hurricane Katrina was the costliest natural disaster and one of the five deadliest hurricanes in the history of the United States.
Anyone else agree the previous versions are better for an encyclopedia? Thanks. Pristino (talk) 16:21, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Lead

message: When I see the top of this page, it says it was a "former featured article". Now, it seems to have fallen to C-class.
May I ask - what happened? Why has it declined so much? Hdjensofjfnen (UTC) 17:57, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Hurricane Harvey happened. It now supposedly rivals or even beats Katrina in sheer damage. Caesar Panda I (talk) 13:54, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Seeing as how it was unfeatured in 2010, I think the problems predated Harvey by a few years. --Golbez (talk) 14:02, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  What happened to this page? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Using recent figures, Hurricane Harvey appears to have caused more dollars of damage than Hurricane Katrina, but when adjusting for inflation, it seems that Hurricane Katrina caused more damage (and even more when adjusting for CPI). This may be noteworthy. Master of Time (talk) 00:26, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hurricane Harvey comparison using recent estimate and adjusting for inflation 

message: Second sentence into the article states the devastation of Gulfport. The information is obviously misplaced, and for the sake of the article it would be appreciated if this good piece of information is relocated.
Benisawesome0101 (talk) 13:06, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Misplaced Information

message: Katrina and Harvey are NOT tied. One article said Katrina's cost was $160 billion (that's $35 billion more than $125 billion). So, could you please fix sentences about Harvey and Katrina and this chart? Please. 2601:401:C400:357:DD19:959:2361:F71D (talk) 20:08, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Spintendo      00:18, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: So use the inflated version, not the non-inflated version. Wikipedia is wrong. Please let Katrina be the costliest tropical cyclone at $160 billion, and not be tied with Harvey at $125 billion. Please.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.4.8.129 (talk) 21:37, 12 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Not without the tropical cyclone project deciding to use inflated values for all tropical cyclone damages, which I don't think is going to happen since the inflated values would generally not be able to be sourced.Jason Rees (talk) 21:50, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

text: Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration (the proposal to switch from the already existing non inflation-based comparison to an inflation-based one) before using the  template. A WikiProject talk page discussion on this topic from 11 years ago, shown here explains the problems inherent in using inflation calculations.  Spintendo      23:45, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

text: The burden is on you to find sources to support the change you want to make.  Deli nk (talk) 12:24, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: We have already found the article and linked to it above. It states that Katrina's damages were $160 billion, after adjusting for inflation, which is something per convention we do not do with damage totals on Wikipedia. If you wish to change this then you can form open a discussion to try and change this, but it would require finding sources for all inflation worldwide.Jason Rees (talk) 13:14, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 10 March 2018 

message: Add another, smaller section towards the end about the Rise Against 2011 song "Help Is On the Way", a song that describes Katrina and the government's alleged neglect to help rescue black families in New Orleans, hence the title "Help Is On the Way"- the government's empty promise. It is a very impactful song and I feel it deserves recognition on this page. SunshinyComet (talk) 19:53, 21 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: That's not how the edit request works - you have to say what you want in the article, the specific text. What this is is just a discussion of what should be there. And maybe it should be, but there's nothing actionable in this request yet. --Golbez (talk) 20:17, 21 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 21 March 2018 

message: I want Katrina's cost to be $160 billion instead of $125 billion, because I don’t want a tie, and it's better to use the inflated version instead. Listen to me, and could you please fix the cost of Katrina to $160 billion? Please. Hello Inflated Version!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:401:C400:357:258B:1311:DA3F:FA1A (talk) 15:30, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Your wants are not what Wikipedia needs. ChowKam2002 (talk) 16:28, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: We have told you time and time again that we are not using the inflated version, no matter how many times you disrupt Wikipedia and beg us to use it for your own needs.Jason Rees (talk) 18:46, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cost for Katrina 

message: Should this page be unlocked since it's been a very long time? 207.172.180.75 (talk) 03:48, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: requests for decreases to the page protection level should be directed to the protecting admin or to Wikipedia:Requests for page protection if the protecting admin is not active or has declined the request. It was put indefinitely under semi-protection for excessive vandalism in 2010, so 5 years out from the hurricane there were still issues with vandalism. Feel free to re-open this request if you have a specific edit in mind, register an account and edit it yourself, or request a decrease in the protection level Cannolis (talk) 04:10, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 15 July 2018 

message: KATRINA IS NOW OFFICIALLY THE SECOND DEADLIEST HURRICANE IN UNITED STATE'S HISTORY. HURRICANE MARIA, BEING THE FIRST, WHERE 2,975 UNITED STATES CITIZENS LOST THEIR LIVES. 71.43.37.242 (talk) 19:29, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. L293D (☎ • ✎) 19:48, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 30 August 2018 

message: The opening paragraph says it made landfall in Louisiana and Florida. Did it straddle Mississippi? Oh, wait much, much further down it says that the worst quadrant made landfall in Mississippi. I suppose I should be grateful that you at least didn't call it Landmass like the Weather Channel tend to do. GeneoSCAD (talk) 00:40, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opening paragraph 

message: Hello. I'm requesting that we change the first sentence in the lede to mention that Katrina did not make landfall as a Category 5. Some people read on further into the article, but you'd be surprised how many skim and only read the lede paragraph. Some peoplencan mislead into thinking Katrina was a. Category 5 when it made landfall. Thanks. 2601:640:8880:3304:7D3C:1732:D3BB:9531 (talk) 22:17, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: I think it's fine as is. It doesn't say that it made landfall as a category 5 hurricane. — MRD2014 (talk) 23:38, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request on 31 AUG 2019 

message: *Request one Fatal engineering flaws didn't exactly cause the flooding: without the engineering flaws, the flooding wouldn't have happened, but they'd been present for a long time without the flooding happening before.  (The storm "caused" the flooding, and engineering flaws failed to keep it from happening.)  Please change the second sentence to Subsequent flooding, enabled by fatal engineering flaws.
*Request two Near the end of the introduction, please change "criticisms" to "criticism" because this word doesn't normally get pluralized.
Thank you. 208.95.51.53 (talk) 18:17, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Partly done: 
*Just because the engineering flaws didn't cause flooding before Katrina doesn't mean that it was those flaws working which prevented earlier flooding. By that same logic, if we're to completely remove the flaws from blame for not working we could also remove the flaws from blame for working -- in which case it could be said that any non-flooding before Katrina was also caused by the storm. In other words, designating the storm as the main cause of something goes both ways -- whether it flooded or not. But blame and/or causation is not intuitively assigned in that manner. It's usually ascribed to that which is directly controllable by humans -- such that when a plane crashes, the cause is not placed upon the laws of gravity, but rather, upon the human actions or inaction's -- directly or indirectly -- which caused it. In this case, the prose is focusing on the ramifications of the poorly-designed engineering which enabled the flooding. The storm is held relatively blameless in that respect because -- as Taylor Swift says, "haters gonna hate" -- here too, a "storms gonna storm."
* Criticisms is the appropriate plural form for criticism. However, the word 'widespread' at the beginning of that sentence seemed to negate the need to place the subsequent words into plural form. Thus, the plural form was changed to the singular/infinitive form in that sentence. If other editors object to this, they are free to revert as necessary, or contact me and I will revert the change. Thank you!   Spintendo  09:33, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 19 November 2019 

message: hi, there seems to be an error in the paragraph about the effects on Cuba. the section says "on the 29th of august" despite citing an article dated the 28th. Unless clairvoyance has secretly been mastered by AFP reporters, I suggest this date should be fixed.
92.40.169.68 (talk) 12:05, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, and the source mentions this happening on "Sunday", which according to my calendar means the 28th.  Done, thanks! ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 13:26, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request fix to Date Error 

message: Katrina didn't actually hit New Orleans the way that it's made out to have. The eye of the storm actually made landfall in Ocean Springs, MS. New Orleans got the western edge of the storm, causing the levees to break and that is what flooded the city. Fyrefly24 (talk) 22:56, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have an edit request? WP:NOTFORUM United States Man (talk) 23:25, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where Katrina made landfall