Talk:Audrey Hepburn/Archive 1

message: Sorry folks, but i too have "Edda van Heemstra Hepburn-Ruston" as her birthname. This is according to Le Musée du Cinéma, Phaidon, Paris, 1999.
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Now this is something I find rather interesting. Could you, 149.101.1.119, explain where the name "Edda van Heemstra Hepburn-Ruston" -- the one you deleted -- came from? And is it really "Andrey Kathleen Ruston? All the best, KF 22:17 27 May 2003 (UTC)
In my encyclopedia it says "Edda Hepburn-van Heemstra". 193.171.249.98 16:22 28 May 2003 (UTC)
acording to the book Audrey Hepburn an elegant spirit by Sean Hepburn Ferrer (Audrey's eldest son)
Audrey was born "Audrey Kathleen Ruston". After the war, her father, Joseph Victor Anthony Ruston, found documents about his ancestors, some of whom bore the name Hepburn. "This is when he added it to his name, which caused my mother to have to legally add Hepburn to her name as well." Sean continues to write  "my grandmother temporarily changed my mother's name from Audrey to Edda during the war, feeling that "Audrey" might indicate her British roots too strongly." He goes on to tell how it was done. "My grandmother Ella came up with the name Edda by simply exchanging the two l's in her own name with two d's." "Since most documents were handwritten at the time, Ella may have had one that could easily be doctored so that my mother could carry it with her whenever she left the house." "just add two c's to the lowercase l's." "change the birth year a bit - Ella was born in 1900, my mother in 1929 - and you have Edda Van Heemstra."   I hope this answers your question. Sincerly, slywolf374 (on Yahoo IM)
:again removing persistent misinformation about birthname
Instead of pinging-ponging the article back and forth could we get explain the popular misinformation in the article somewhere rather than just deleting it ready for the same mistake to be made again. Thanks! Pcb21| Pete 07:23, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: It's referenced; I suppose we could be more obvious about it. - Nunh-huh 07:38, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

text: I'm sorry, you have to do better than that. Provide the name of the book and explain why it contradicts the writings of her own son, and other authors like Barry Paris. Bear in mind there is at least one so-called biography out there that has been debunked as fiction - that's the one written by a so-called illegitimate son who claimed Audrey had ties to organized crime and the Nazi party. 23skidoo 22:46, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Followup. Go here and scroll down for a scan of her birth certificate. It clearly says her birth name was Audrey (and it also helps settle the "Edda" dispute as well). 23skidoo 23:49, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

text: And the quotation in that work claiming "Andrey" is what? - Nunh-huh 18:35, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

text: One reference supporting your preferred name against all the other references could hardly "resolve" it. What sources does Harris list? - Nunh-huh 22:51, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  This debate is located further down the page, guys - see "Andrey?".  We should all be talking in the same place, not having 2 separate debates on the same issue.  JackofOz 23:00, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The name issue, again 

message: Now this is something I find rather interesting. Could you, 149.101.1.119, explain where the name "Edda van Heemstra Hepburn-Ruston" -- the one you deleted -- came from? And is it really "Andrey Kathleen Ruston? All the best, KF 22:17 27 May 2003 (UTC)
In my encyclopedia it says "Edda Hepburn-van Heemstra". 193.171.249.98 16:22 28 May 2003 (UTC)
acording to the book Audrey Hepburn an elegant spirit by Sean Hepburn Ferrer (Audrey's eldest son)
Audrey was born "Audrey Kathleen Ruston". After the war, her father, Joseph Victor Anthony Ruston, found documents about his ancestors, some of whom bore the name Hepburn. "This is when he added it to his name, which caused my mother to have to legally add Hepburn to her name as well." Sean continues to write  "my grandmother temporarily changed my mother's name from Audrey to Edda during the war, feeling that "Audrey" might indicate her British roots too strongly." He goes on to tell how it was done. "My grandmother Ella came up with the name Edda by simply exchanging the two l's in her own name with two d's." "Since most documents were handwritten at the time, Ella may have had one that could easily be doctored so that my mother could carry it with her whenever she left the house." "just add two c's to the lowercase l's." "change the birth year a bit - Ella was born in 1900, my mother in 1929 - and you have Edda Van Heemstra."   I hope this answers your question. Sincerly, slywolf374 (on Yahoo IM)
:again removing persistent misinformation about birthname
Instead of pinging-ponging the article back and forth could we get explain the popular misinformation in the article somewhere rather than just deleting it ready for the same mistake to be made again. Thanks! Pcb21| Pete 07:23, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: It's referenced; I suppose we could be more obvious about it. - Nunh-huh 07:38, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

text: I'm sorry, you have to do better than that. Provide the name of the book and explain why it contradicts the writings of her own son, and other authors like Barry Paris. Bear in mind there is at least one so-called biography out there that has been debunked as fiction - that's the one written by a so-called illegitimate son who claimed Audrey had ties to organized crime and the Nazi party. 23skidoo 22:46, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Followup. Go here and scroll down for a scan of her birth certificate. It clearly says her birth name was Audrey (and it also helps settle the "Edda" dispute as well). 23skidoo 23:49, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

text: And the quotation in that work claiming "Andrey" is what? - Nunh-huh 18:35, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

text: One reference supporting your preferred name against all the other references could hardly "resolve" it. What sources does Harris list? - Nunh-huh 22:51, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  This debate is located further down the page, guys - see "Andrey?".  We should all be talking in the same place, not having 2 separate debates on the same issue.  JackofOz 23:00, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: ========

message: There is no refrence to her most famous role as Holly Golightly in Breakfast at Tiffanys in this article. Perhaps not her best piece, but her part of that film is HUGELY iconic.
: Rectified. I personally think it was her best performance other than Two for the Road. 23skidoo 18:43, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Breakfast At Tiffanys 

message: From Royal descents of famous people 
:Number of estimated descendants of Edward III - I have seen 80 percent of the population of England quoted, which would conflict with the estimate for William the Conqueror above (it would imply that perhaps 75 percent of the population of Britain descend from William the Conqueror). Roderick W. Stuart claims millions of descendants of Edward III in America alone: "Edward III is the latest king from whom a large number of Americans and Europeans can claim descent. His American posterity numbers in the millions." [Stuart, 1998].
In this light, there is little reason to note this ancestor. -Willmcw 21:38, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Edward III

message: In my effort to merge the now-deleted list from the article Gay icon to the Gay icons category, I have added this page to the category. I engaged in this effort as a "human script", adding everyone from the list to the category, bypassing the fact-checking stage. That is what I am relying on you to do. Please check the article Gay icon and make a judgment as to whether this person or group fits the category. By distributing this task from the regular editors of one article to the regular editors of several articles, I believe that the task of fact-checking this information can be expedited. Thank you very much. Philwelch 20:48, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm no Hepburn expert but what exactly is it that makes her a "gay icon?" She's not LGB or T, and I don't think she has a disproportionate number of fans in the gay community. Molimo 02:17, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This has long puzzled me as well. I know the Gay Icons category has been removed from a few other articles (Sophia Loren IIRC) as being non-applicable. If a rationale for Hepburn being listed isn't provided, I suggest it be deleted. 23skidoo 20:02, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gay Icon Project 

message: Is this worth noting? Should she not be described as an Anglo-Dutch actress, since she was raised in both countries, and her family came from both?
NO--She was a British citizen from birth as per her biography: "Audrey Hepburn: a biography" by Warren G. Harris (ISBN# 0-671-75800-4), page 12: "Because Audrey happened to be born in Brussels, her original nationality has often been erroneously cited as Belgian. But being born on Belgian soil does not by itself convey Belgian citizenship. That must come through at least one Belgian parent or through naturalization, neither of which applied in Audrey's case. Though she had a British father and a Dutch-born mother, both were British in the eyes of the law, and she was duly certified as such by the British consulate in Brussels."
Clear??
70.19.72.177 18:30, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm OK with that but it is a factual error to remove "Belgian born" from other articles. Nevermind her nationality -- it's a fact she was born in Belgium. I could be an American who was born in London ... that still makes me London-born. David Byrne was born in Edinburgh, so it's correct to say he was Scottish born, never mind his ultimate nationality. So there's no reason (as in Roman Holiday) to not say she was Belgian-born. 23skidoo 18:27, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Belgian-born 

message: An anonymous editor posted that Audrey's birth name was in fact "Andrey". I reverted this, but I'm starting this thread for anyone who can actually provide some sort of proof that this is true. PS. I just noticed at the very top of this page that this discussion actually dates back to 2003. IMO if Sean Ferrer's book says it is Audrey then it is Audrey. He should know. 
23skidoo 20:00, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Andrey?

message: An anonymous editor has added that Audrey attended Oxford. I'm not aware of this -- can anyone verify this fact? I wasn't aware she attended university at all. 23skidoo 16:42, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Oxford University

message: The second paragraph about what a saint she was borders on hagiography. I don't care about this woman or this page so I am not going to change it, but ultimately someone who isn't a smitten fan will remove the tireless work and living a life of kindness to others crap.
Believe it or not, everything in that paragraph is all factually correct according to everything that's been documented about her. Worked for UNICEF, everyone liked her, no scandals, had a lot of quotes about kindness, charming in all of her movies. Maybe you can't believe that a person could have that many good qualities...you can add "she smoked" if you want, that wasn't a great quality. Gunkyboy
: It may be factually correct but I do have to agree somewhat with the anonymous poster that it did veer a bit too far into POV territory as worded. WP:NOT says articles should not be treated as fan pages. I have reworded it slightly to lessen the potential for POV interpretation. I would suggest, however that a source be cited in this paragraph as a footnote. You can pretty well pick any reputable Hepburn biography for this purpose. 23skidoo 14:25, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: npov

message: I put back a couple of trivia items that had been deleted as "cruft". It is quite notable (and verifiable) that opera star Maria Callas adopted her famous look based upon Hepburn. (I happen to not possess any books on Callas in my 5000-book library but I'm sure someone can add a citation). And it is also notable to indicate which of Hepburn's films were her personal favorites (and the source is good). I agree some of the other items deleted were a bit too NN, but I felt these two should remain. 23skidoo 02:45, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Cruft trivia

message: I just noticed that the trivia item about her pets stated that she kept the fawn Pippin "after she was injured" (presumably referring to her accident on the set of The Unforgiven). However I have seen photos of Audrey and Mel at home dated 1957 with the fawn. My understanding is she adopted the fawn around the time she appeared in Green Mansions because she wanted to develop a rapport with the animal on screen in her role as Rima. BTW just following on from the above thread, mentioning her pets isn't too crufty because there was fairly extensive media coverage, especially of the fawn. 23skidoo 14:34, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Pets trivia item

message: The "Fair Lady" book image is cool, but I fear under the rather draconian new fair use rules that Wikipedia has put in place in recent weeks, it's possible this image might be removed by someone on the grounds that the article isn't about the book itself. (I'm not exaggerating -- pick any article that has or had a magazine cover image on it and you'll see some editors have really been cracking down on this sort of thing, visually damaging a number of articles in the process). I'm not saying deletion of this image is inevitable, but whoever uploaded should make sure there's an air-tight image license for it. 23skidoo 19:46, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, thanks for pointing that out. The picture would only be fair use in this article if the article specifically discussed the significance of AH's appearance on that book cover. Otherwise the image will have to be removed. Angr (talk) 20:32, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Beaton book image

message: We read in the very first sentence that Hepburn was "iconic", and later that Hepburn's performance as "Holly Golightly" in 1961's Breakfast at Tiffany's resulted in one of the most iconic characters in 20th Century American cinema. Her performance as Eliza Doolittle in My Fair Lady is perhaps equally as iconic. What, if anything, does this mean? (An icon of what?) -- Hoary 06:47, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Iconicity

message: For being on hold for a week.--SeizureDog 11:15, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Failed GA

message: Substituted at 20:23, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment