Talk:Portrait of Suzanne Bloch

message: The assertion that this portrait is the last work of the blue period seems rather novel; although several sources are cited, the one print source I have been able to examine (Palau i Fabre, pp. 378, 543) says nothing of the sort, which does not inspire confidence about the accuracy of the other cites. The Reuters story, written quickly when news of the theft broke, should not be considered authoritative in art-historical matters, in my opinion. 
I'm no Picasso expert, but a check of some standard English-language books on Picasso discourages the idea that the b.p. came to a screeching halt with this portrait. Richardson (1991) discusses this painting in passing (p. 338) but says nothing that could support this article's claim. Daix (1993) writes "His commitment to Fernande, undertaken in the month of August, is reflected in a departure from blue. A warming of the palette is evident in the portraits of Gaby, wife of the actor Harry Baur; of Suzanne Bloch, the singer; and of friends like Manolo and Sebastián Junyer" (p. 42), and then moves on to other matters. The catalog of the 1980 MoMA retrospective does not mention this painting or name any single painting as marking of the end of the blue period. This article's implication—that art historians have reached a consensus in naming Portrait of Suzanne Bloch the last of the blue period works—seems greatly exaggerated if not entirely false. Ewulp (talk) 04:46, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Check out on-line Picasso project. Portrait of Suzanne Bloch is late Spring/early Summer 1904. Femme au Chignon is August 1904 and distinctly bluer, albeit gouache on carboard, as opposed to Bloch oil on canvas. In fact, as Bloch has a pink face, one could see it as the start of the Rose period. Compare with Femme à la chemise, Winter 1904/1905, which I think is Rose period officially. However, we have to go by reliable secondary sources, so if the sources say Bloch is the last blue, then that's what it is, until other sources contradict—then we include both according to their weight. Tyrenius (talk) 05:29, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, August 1904: Meets Fernande (1881-1966), an artists model and great friend of Benedetta Canals in the Bateau-Lavoir - cf. Richardson 1991. Known among Picasso's circle as "la belle Fernande," she is the artist's first real love and becomes a principal inspiration in his work until 1910; she and Picasso break up definitively in the SPRING of 1912. Executes the work in pen, India ink, lead pencil and watercolor on paper Les amants [OPP.04:020]. The changes in the tonality of his canvases later prompts Coquiot to call this new phase 'Rose Period' (or 'Pink Period'). Major works include: Femme au chignon [OPP.04:026], Femme à la corneille [OPP.04:005], Femme à la chemise [OPP.04:053] and Acrobate au ballon (Fillette au ballon) [OPP.05:069], the latter two completed in the WINTER. It seems the arrival of Fernande is the start of the Rose period, regardless of the colour of the paintings! Tyrenius (talk) 05:35, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

text: I totally agree. Something along the lines of "x sees it as the last painting but y sees it as part of a transitional period" would be acceptable. Tyrenius (talk) 16:32, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Last painting of the Blue Period? 

message: I have not had a chance to look at the article from the São Paulo Museum of Art Magazine which provided the  citations of Sutton, Palau i Fabre, Moravia and Lecaldano in support of the Portrait of Suzanne Bloch's role in marking the end of the blue period, but the English version of the 1948 Sutton book cited--a slim volume of about 16 color plates and brief intro text--neither reproduces nor mentions the Bloch portrait. The Moravia/Lecaldano book (also in the English version) reproduces the painting but does not call it the last of the blue period, or provide a date more specific than "1904". Since the source of the confusion is the ambiguously worded statement by Marques, wording repeated in the São Paulo Museum of Art Magazine, the Sutton, Palau i Fabre, Moravia and Lecaldano books cannot be cited for the claim. 
The Angus MacSwan piece for Reuters, which says that the painting  "is considered the last important work of the Spaniard's blue period", can fairly be cited on the grounds that MacSwan, a reputable correspondent, can be presumed to have gotten this information from an art professional, and the article he wrote was seen by potentially millions of readers. I'll try a minor rewrite in our article, which I hope will be satisfactory until more information comes to light. Ewulp (talk) 07:54, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Findings 

message: The entire collection of São Paulo Museum of Art is listed as Brazilian National Heritage by IPHAN, not only the paintings which were stolen.There are many sources to confirm that, but all of them in Portuguese. Dornicke (talk)  —Preceding comment was added at 19:02, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  about the "citation needed" 

message: * From the English capital, the painting went to Lugano, in Switzerland, where it was hold in the private collection of the Biber family. 
All we really know, is that Lichnowsky acquired from Paul Cassirer, in 1919 - and that the painting reappeared as an anonymous temporary loan the National Gallery of Art, Washington, said to have come from the Biber family. The change of ownership evidently happened some when between 1919 and  —Preceding unsigned comment added by RogoPD (talk • contribs) 21:53, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Biber Family