Talk:Immigration to Germany

message: On 06:54, 15 January 2016‎ an edit was mad by 79.200.208.163 adding this text: to the 1993-present paragraph.
"Mainly in 2015 there has been massively wrong information especially in some african, arabic etc. media channels concerning the conditions of coming to and living in Germany. False promises of money, easy living and easy jobs were made."
It's uncited, seems biased and looks like bad wiki text. I'd remove it but I'm not sure if it's vandalism or not. Could someone with more experience check this? Hentheden (talk) 00:11, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bad edit? 

message: According to http://www.immigration-residency.eu/immigration-to/germany/ immigration statistics are wrong. According to mentioned website it is 8% immigrants from Arab states and ~11% from within EU. I don't know which one is correct, but thought it has to be pointed out for the check in official government website.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.246.140.74 (talk) 16:08, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Incorrect numbers?

message: :The chart in the article is useless because its in German. Not suitable for the English Wikipedia. With respect, Deliogul 17:35, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you click on the chart, the description text includes the translation.WhatamIdoing 01:06, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Chart

message: ::Hi, from what I can tell, it looks like the original text  was:
:::Relatives, like spouse or children, moving with them are allowed to work without having to get additional permits. The German scheme is similar to ones operated by other European countries. The downside is that the salary which is required is the highest of any European country with similiar work visas. For example, Austria's income requirements are around 50% less that of Germany.
::The text you removed was
:::However, like many European countries, Germany does offer a program for highly skilled immigrants. Unlike many European countries, the standards are far more stringent. Although the determination is still based on the applicant demonstrating educational qualifications, expertise in a particular area, or a salary above a certain level, the processes in place make it extremely difficult to receive a work permit. Currently, the minimum salary is set at 85,500 € p.a.. Austria's income threshold is half of that.Despite efforts from both major parties, they've been unable to find a compromise that would make the process easier. 
::It presents similar information, but it's very different from text from ..., and it does include citations and so on.
::Therefore I'm reverting the most recent revert, but let's discuss this on the talk page. 71.231.143.160 (talk) 23:25, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Re: Section Blank

message: This article could really use expansion and discussion of Turkish immigration to Germany.  According to the Germany nationality law article, Turks are far and away the largest legal immigrant group in Germany today.  Scarykitty (talk) 23:43, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I copied some stuff from the article Gastarbeiter. This section about "history" is still incompletet however.--Greatgreenwhale (talk) 16:20, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Turkish immigration

message: The horribleness of this article can be seen at a glance. Four lines of neutral information and then a whole section on "Difficulties on non-EU citizens". Anybody out there help? DJ Clayworth (talk) 14:54, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Horrible article

message: I took the liberty to rewrite the article on immigration of non-EU-citizens, as it contained misinformation and incomplete information on German immigration law. 
03 December 2008  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.176.95.155 (talk) 08:27, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Incorrect legal information 

message: Several of the links near the bottom of the page either link to 404 pages or to outdated information. It would be much appreciated if more current links and sources could be found to support the information in this article.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.186.117.215 (talk) 23:55, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Outdated Sources/Source Link Rot 

message: First reference link doesnt work--Mats33 (talk) 23:22, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  first reference dont work 

message: Hi Joobo, instead of decreasing the number of immigrants represented in this article, it should rather be expanded. Wikipedia is supposed to give the detailed insight here, not external websites (going offline sooner or later, anyway). The full number set of foreign backgrounds is provided at such articles for a number of reasons, see e.g. Immigration to Canada. If you've got a serious issue with this, care to explain. -- Horst-schlaemma (talk) 08:42, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Since I suspect you were bothered by a "lengthy" first section of the article and since guidelines prefer history parts to come first, I changed the layout to have the tables at the end of the article. Cheers, Horst-schlaemma (talk) 08:47, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  i can understand your purpose fully. the length was my issue. at least it seems a bit more better now, though i still would prefer to put the list in the first part and just mention the lets say 20 first nations. quite frankly nobody needs to know that 12 nauru people live in germany... Joobo (talk) 13:14, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: @Nauru: Sure that. Other cohorts are quite close together though. And the communities above 20'000 are definitely important in Germany, be it Danes (Schleswig), Japanese (Düsseldorf) or Vietnamese ("only" #24, but the major non-European group in most of Germany's East). We can leave it here imho. Cheers! Horst-schlaemma (talk) 13:29, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number of immigrant groups 

message: The caption "Police intercepts refugees and potential Illegals at Munich Central Station" is problematic for two reasons:
1) It is ungrammatical, since "police" in this context is being used as a plural noun, and "Illegals" is being used as a noun (and it is capitalised, which is not English-language convention).
2) The use of language like "potential Illegals [sic]" is quite problematic from a NPOV standpoint. Just calling them refugees skirts around these issues.
I have tried to amend this caption, but I have been reverted. What do others think? Archon 2488 (talk) 17:23, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image caption 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: It is grossly incorrect to assume that all Russian-speaking population of Germany came from Russia. There was a significant (millions) influx of Germans from Kazakhstan, who are majority Russian speakers. The number of immigrants from Russia is to be obtained from German statistical data recording citizenship of immigrants and ethnic Germans moving to Germany, starting from 1991. Unfortunately, the statistic is in German only, and I don't speak the language It would be good if somebody who knows the language did the job. Thank you in advance. 158.106.71.40 (talk) 14:42, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Data on immigration from Russia. 

message: Gatestone Institute:During the first six months of 2016, migrants committed 142,500 crimes, according to the Federal Criminal Police Office. This is equivalent to 780 crimes committed by migrants every day, an increase of nearly 40% over 2015. The data includes only those crimes in which a suspect has been caught. --89.204.153.124 (talk) 18:06, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gatestone Institute 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello. My apologies about being a bother, but I might get topic-banned soon, so I would appreciate if somebody could please add the following references to this article, if they are deemed appropriate. Thank you. My apologies if I have misunderstood anything.
A new study, assembling evidence from thousands of articles published in German media about the immigration crisis in 2015, has found that it largely systematically lied about the situation and published propaganda:
https://www.thelocal.de/20170721/german-media-failed-to-report-refugee-crisis-honestly-study-claims
The German government has created very extreme laws of censorship for social media such as Youtube, Facebook, and Twitter. Accounts that break the rules have to immediately be shut down, or the companies will have to pay 50 million Euros in fines:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-23/germany-full-censorship-now-official
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/06/30/with-new-law-germany-tells-social-media-companies-to-erase-hate-or-face-fines-up-to-57-million/
David A (talk) 09:35, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Immigration to Germany editing help needed 

message: "Regions with significant populations" is a completely meaningless phrase. The list should be called "Source countries of immigrants to Germany". I would have changed it myself but I couldn't acess that section to correct it. Strambotik (talk) 10:38, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regions with significant populations 

message: It seems to me somewhat redundant to include both the "demography of Germany" table and the "Immigrant population in Germany by country of birth." I'm guessing the first one is intended to list German residents by ancestry, while the second one is only the foreign-born population. I think we should take out the first one - it's a confusing table to encounter directly after the lead, since this article is about immigration to Germany. (Case in point - the comment immediately above this one seemed to think that table referred to the foreign-born population.) While a discussion of how the descendants of immigrants have shaped Germany is certainly relevant to the subject matter, it's secondary; granular ancestry data really belongs in the Demographics of Germany article. --Tserton (talk) 07:26, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Edit: Done. --Tserton (talk) 23:49, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

text: On closer inspection, the data contained in the "Immigrant population in Germany by country of birth" table is actually the number of foreign nationals residing in Germany, not the foreign-born population. In addition to being more accurate to the title of the table and the section, I think the foreign-born population (available e.g. here) would better represent the scope of the article. It might seem like splitting hairs, but those are far from the same thing, since not all foreign nationals are, strictly speaking, immigrants (for example if they were born in and grew up in Germany but, for one reason or another, never become German citizens), and not all immigrants are foreign nationals (e.g. if they take on German citizenship). Of course, the foreign-born population is also an imperfect proxy for a range of reasons (for instance, I don't know if it includes the foreign-born children of German citizens who move back to Germany later, and who wouldn't really be considered immigrants), but I'd argue it's less imperfect than foreign nationals. We could keep both tables, but juxtaposing two tables like that would be confusing.--Tserton (talk) 03:36, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Duplicate tables 

message: I've added a few sentences to the lead to make it less specific to the present day. I know my addition sums up a huge amount of pretty heavy history very quickly, so if it sounds flippant please do modify or remove it. Also, it would be good to cover pre-1945 immigration to Germany (a good source to start with might be "Migrations in the German Lands, 1500–2000" by Coy, Poley and Schunka). I'll do so bit by bit when I can find the time, and of course anyone else can help or give feedback :) --Tserton (talk) 21:44, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: On a second reading, the first paragraph is now too history-focused with my additions. I still think a brief historical overview makes sense to have in the lead, but probably not as the very first paragraph. I'll try to reorganize the lead so it flows more naturally from a general introduction to the topic to specific aspects like history. --Tserton (talk) 08:32, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead 

message: I think it would make sense to organize the "History" section according to the changes in Germany's territorial and sovereign status. A logical option would be pre-1945 (which might also further demarcated, perhaps by the creation of the German empire in 1871, if there's enough information on that period), 1945-1990, and 1990-present. The last period could also be split into 1990-2010 and 2010-present (since 2010 marked a significant, and so far ongoing, increase in immigration numbers). Each of these periods could then be subdivided into specific waves or causes of immigration (guest workers, expulsion of ethnic Germans from Eastern Europe, refugees from East Germany, EU freedom of movement, etc.) This isn't exactly a controversial edit but it could potentially be a significant reorganization of the history section, so I figured I'd explain my logic here on the talk page before carrying it out. --Tserton (talk) 11:14, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Reorganization of History section

message: Why do we have a section on crime in the wikipedia on immigration to Germany? It seems biased and criminalizes immigration, even though immigration is usually completely legal in Germany. It just seems way out of placed and inappropriate. 193.175.54.224 (talk) 21:43, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Crime as a category?! 

message: As the Graph extension is still down and will probably be down for a while yet (and possibly for good), I'm going to replace the autogenerated graph on this page with a static one from Wikimedia commons. A dynamic graph is obviously preferable since it can be updated each year, so in case the extension is ever re-enabled, I'm posting the data and code used to generate the graph here. (Only visible when viewing the page source, of course.)  Tserton (talk) 19:31, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Data for graph