Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dragon Ball/Archive 3

message: Should we merge him too? His article's just a plot summary with some attacks listed--SUIT 19:41, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not against it. Nemu 19:50, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Same here. While we're on the subject of movie characters, what about Coola and Broli? Takuthehedgehog 20:21, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we should keep Broly. Unlike most other movie characters, he actually has something to write about besides just a plot summary. // DecaimientoPoético 20:24, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What does he have to write about? His article is just a plot summary, list of forms, a very brief list of abilities, and a list of video game appearences. A character who wants to kill someone just because they cried near them as a baby, and whose dialoge consists of mostly cries of "Kakarotto!" doesn't have very much depth, and thus, not much to write about. There are other characters who are a lot more important and have a lot more to write about then Broli that don't have their own articles, so why should Broli? Because at birth he had a power level that was over 9000? Because he's a saiyan? Because he's "OMG TEH ROXXORS!"?  Takuthehedgehog 20:30, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: They're fine. If we truly wanted to, I'm sure we could find concept and creation references for them. Plus, they're notable enough. The story and attacks thing is only one side of the argument because, unfortunately, that's what all of the characters currently  break down to. Nemu 20:37, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, but characters whos appearences are so brief don't have enough to write about. That's why we got rid of Raditz, Nappa, Captain Ginyu, Zarbon, Dodoria, and tons of other characters who have more to talk about, but still not enough to talk about. Besides, the movie character's histories are already summed up on the pages for the actual movies. Takuthehedgehog 20:42, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We got rid of those characters for a variety of reasons, not just length. They are minor plot character made to stall for the major villains, there is no possible extra non-cruft information for them, all they have is just the plot summaries. These two on the other hand can easily have enough out of universe info (as long as the interviews that I always see AT talking about them in aren't fake), and are more important than those guys(Movie villians move up in importance in at least my book). Nemu 20:48, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Basically, when I judge an article, I try to tell if it has the potential to become at least a GA. I see those to as having the potential, though actually obtaining it is a whole other story, The characters you brought up have nothing that would ever get them to that point. Nemu 20:51, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Oh, Vegetto is in no way important. He served a quick plot purpose, he was fairly cool, and that's it. Most of the movie villians can only rely on the one movie they have for sustenance, so that's why they don't need articles. We're pretty much done merging besides a few more possible candidates. Nemu 22:04, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We can't let fan favor decide if an character deserves or not an article Veggeto is irrelevant to the storyline after those five minutes of glory he had. -Dark Dragon Flame 22:10, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You can't just decide who isn't important.  The fact of the matter is that Vegetto is important, you know, since they'd have died otherwise.  He's also popular and a searchable item.  Also, Gogeta appeared in movies and the series, granted it was GT.  Gotenks again, incredibly important, he held off Buu for a good long while and thats after the good chunk of episodes of him just learning how to be Gotenks.  All three, searchable items, popular items, things that people would come here to look for and discover more about.  All 3 at the minimum deserve an article, hell even if its a Fusion article with all 3 on the same page.  Its not a fan thing, its a sense thing.  Its a popular anime, popular characters, and a few paragraphs and a pic at the bottom of a long list of characters isn't gonna cut it.  If I had the time to read all the debating when this was apparently decided I would've stepped in then and put a stop to it.Darkwarriorblake 22:16, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Gotenks is significantly more important than both Vegetto and Gogeta, both of them only appear when required and play small roles in the series, neither of them finished a important adversary or played a major role in a saga besides participating in squash fights. -Dark Dragon Flame 22:23, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, we can. He was important in his five episode(two or three chapters) fight, nowhere else. Do you seriously think Gogeta is important? He had 15 minutes of screentime. How does that make him important? Gotenks is arguable, but as I see it, he was only important in fights, which is nothing we need to go too far into. It's a large anime, that's why the characters are merged. They are only a small part of this large thing. This is just fanboy behavior. Nemu 22:24, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I was about to say that but then I found out two people were editing the discussion and I had to type this. DBZROCKS 22:28, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

text: OH and Gogeta didn't have 15 minutes he had maybe two he came he said some things blasted Jenamba and that was it. DBZROCKS 22:29, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: About 15 if you count GT... -Dark Dragon Flame 22:30, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: True but thats still 17 minutes out of 80 (the combined total of A GT episode and Fusion Reborn.(movie #12 for anyone who doesn't know) DBZROCKS 22:35, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Raditz had more than one episode and his article still burned, and believe me he is a lot more important than Vegetto or Gogeta. -Dark Dragon Flame 22:38, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think he's against you. Please do try to keep it up, it's annoying to always fix your posts. Nemu 22:40, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Actually it's about time the "flow" goes in the opposite direction. -Dark Dragon Flame 22:42, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Jheese these edit conflicts are really getting anoying DBZROCKS 22:43, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Garlic Junior]] 

message: With all the debates, I think we should make it clear exactly what does, and what doesn't, make a character important.  I would argue that the character having a prominent role in multiple sagas should be our main guideline.  I would argue that the in-universe importance of a characters actions do not carry any significance. Beowulph 23:30, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: well I think it would be Resonable to say that an important charecter was present for mutiple sagas or was a present throughout a saga ex: [Future Trunks] or if it is a main villain. DBZROCKS 23:43, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well what about movie characters? Like Garlic Junior, he appears in the first DBZ movie and he's the villan for a short saga. Coola was in two movies and so was Broli, three if you include Bio-Broli, who wasn't technically Broli. Takuthehedgehog 20:47, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I never said anything about that but I would say that if a charecter was in at least two movies (Broli and Coola) they should be there except for Garlic because he only fought for a short amount of time. DBZROCKS 20:53, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going to go ahead and merge Garlic as it seems like that was the consensus. It also seems like keeping the other two is the consensus(correct me if I'm wrong). Nemu 20:51, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Yes, every character page is like that, but some have the potential to go beyond that. We factor in notability, possible length, possible relevance, importance, possibility of OOU info, and other things. Garlic doesn't seem to have very many of those. Nemu 21:15, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: excuse my language but so what if whe got imortality? His article as is is just a long plot summary with nothing interesting. But thats because Garlic isn't very deep he didn't fight much and only appeared for a really short saga and a movie. DBZROCKS 21:18, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Broli is even less deep then Garlic Jr. Broli just smashes stuff for three movies because Goku cried as a baby. Garlic Jr wants revenge for his father, who wasn't chosen to become Kami (god) of Earth. If you add up the length, Garlic Jr.'s Movie and Saga is about the same length as the three Broli movies. Besides, none of the movie characters have much depth. With Garlic Jr we could also talk about how he doesn't fit into the anime timeline, even though he appears in the series. Takuthehedgehog 17:31, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There was a consensus. I think four to six people up there agree. We aren't talking about depth of a character(though Garlic is still shallow compared to thousands of others). We're talking about all of the qualities I stated somewhere here. Garlic has very few of those. Talking about how he doesn't fit into the anime timeline is OR. Nemu 17:44, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Yeah, it's five to two, which is enough for something as small as this. Nemu 17:47, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes but Garlic barely did anything his henchmen fought for much longer than he did and to add to that his article is just a loooooooooooooong plot summary. Its plot summary is longer than the one for the movie. He'll be much better off merged. DBZROCKS 20:44, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

text: He already has and article right here but its just a long plot summary there is nothing else but his 9 episodes and movie to talk about He was only in  1 video game and thats pretty much it. He was a throwaway villan lets leave it at that. DBZROCKS 01:27, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But that's what Broli and Coola are, but instead of returning for a saga, they each came back for a sequal. I don't see how Broli's and Coola's plot summaries makes for a better article then Garlic's. Takuthehedgehog 08:22, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with TTHH, seems inconsistent.  Broli and Coola certainly don't go through any growth or have much in the way of complicated motives.  This is why I'm advocating something of a "checklist" approach when determining if a character is major or not. Beowulph 14:18, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Character importance

message: Just tought you would be interested. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.138.193.158 (talk) 03:43, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Cheers. Everyone please remember that AfD isn't a vote, and that informating a project of an article being nominated is not an invitation to go and vote "wtf keep ilikeit". --Deskana (talk) 04:36, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I doubt that would help anywhey. The way the discussion is going Power level (Dragon Ball) is as good as gone. DBZROCKS 21:07, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Update Powerlevel has been deleted. may its articlehood rest in peace. DBZROCKS 12:17, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Power Level (Dragon Ball) article nominated for deletion

message: I was wondering whether adopting an approach similar to what the WP:PAC used to do might be a good idea. I generally found it quite easy to update articles in PAC because there was a strict guideline as to page layout. I realise it's not as easy to list important DB articles as it is to list important Pokémon articles (the obvious being 1 through n articles on Pokémon). Perhaps this would help give the project some extra focus? --Deskana (talk) 04:36, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Giving the project focus

message: I think his article has enough information to warrant an article for himself. We could also merge his team into his article. It has more info than Pan's article. Superior1 04:52, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: He was only around for a movie and a single panel in the manga. More important characters such as Raditz and Nappa have been merged to the list, so why keep a character only around for roughly 45 minutes (I don't remember how long the movie was)? Why'd you bring up Pan? And merging his team to his article just doesn't make sense--SUIT 04:55, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Burdock wouldn't work he was only in a movie and a panel of the manga. His page would just be a movie summary with a pinch of fancruft bad idea. Pan's article is just not being worked on she has plenty of info; she was around for 65 episodes which is around 1300 minutes. DBZROCKS 12:04, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So explaining why Toriyama put him in the manga is fancruft? Superior1 22:49, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: no i never said that. all im saying is that when articles are on charecters that are not very important random stuff starts to turn up. DBZROCKS 22:51, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Burdock

message: Hello there once again fellow contributors. I've been thinking for the past two days now, and i've decided to "temporarily" accept Vegetto as he is now. However, i'm going to add as much information about him as possible within the section he is in now. If the section becomes too long, but the information within it is verifiable and just, then there is no question he needs his own article! I appreciate the support if you all could provide it! Thank you very much. Gooden 07:37, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: He already had his own article but it was just a long plot summary. Methinks you still don't get he was around for 2 manga chapters, there are charecters who were in twice as many but still got merged. don't take this as a personal attack but you just need to give this up. DBZROCKS 12:08, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep. I think you also need to learn that Wikipedia doesn't revolve around you and whether or not you "temporarily accept" something doesn't matter. --Deskana (talk) 21:09, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Reaching Consensus

message: I've been noticing that Dragonball Z has been vandilised repeatedly lately. You think we could protect it, at least for a little while? DBZROCKS 20:49, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There's probably not quite enough activity to sprotect it at the minute. --Deskana (talk) 21:13, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok. Im glad at least that the vandilism isn't that bad. DBZROCKS 21:19, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dragonball Z 

message: Just adding this here since we weren't done merging and whatnot. I noticed some changes were made between my last checkup on it and the archiving, with all disputed articles being removed, all to be merged articles being removed. Takuthehedgehog 08:28, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Article rearranging

message: Is there a reason why we're a full project and not a task force?  We seem to be fully contained within WP:Anime and Manga. Beowulph 14:21, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just how it is. It was more or less designated a 'project' when me and Desire revived it. Remember kids, the project's about a year or so old. Most of us have only been working at this since January =P VelocityEX 23:49, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No way it can be a Task Force it is way to big, believe me task forces usually centers around one movie or video game series, the bottom line is Dragon Ball is to huge. -DDF 23:54, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Though this Project does seem more like a task force--$UIT 00:04, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

text: After the major over-haul we just went through, I fail to see how anyone can consider the number of Dragon Ball articles we have left "huge." // DecaimientoPoético 00:13, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We still have quite a few though (for now)--$UIT 00:34, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: How? you kind of lost me there. -DDF 00:08, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Agreed. DBZROCKS 00:51, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The point is to try and reduce our problems and overhead.  Things like character significance criteria, templates, Romaji vs. English... almost all of our issues are the the same as those that would affect other A&M series'.  I also wouldn't say scope or scale should be a concern for task forces, World War II is a task force of Military History, something I think is a bit larger then DB. Beowulph 01:38, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually WWII lasted for I think 6 years Dragonball lasted for 10 years. DBZROCKS 12:08, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So? The amount of time something lasted isn't going to make a difference. World War II is still more important than Dragon Ball, and it's only got a taskforce--$UIT 02:06, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Project vs. Taskforce?

message: Why don't we put it into simple pros vs. cons of moving from a project to a task force?
Pros
* Standardization with other anime and manga series'
* A larger pool of resources for deciding shared issues and policies (naming conventions, character importance, templates, how to handle variations between the anime and manga, article review etc.)
* We then only have to focus on issues which are exclusively Dragon Ball related
* A selected group of coordinators to oversee the overall project
Cons
Notes
* I'd like to bring the idea forward to WP:Manga and get their input, any objections?
* I'm primarily basing the project structure off of how WP:MILHIST currently has it set up.  IMHO, they are the most organized project on Wikipedia.  Beowulph 17:14, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Pros vs. cons

message: on light of Power level being deleted I think we could make a similar article. Instead of powerlevel it could just be Ki/Chi and foucus on Ki/Chi how it works with energy attacks like the Kamehameha and such. Then Instead of adding that list of powerlevels we could make another page titled List of Powerlevels in dragonball. I have already started writing such and article on my word proccesing program and will be able to show everyone what it looks like on this talk page in a week or so. Tell me what you think! :) DBZROCKS 12:21, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it's been deleted, why recreate it?--$UIT 02:14, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Sure I'll do that. ~ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by DBZROCKS (talk • contribs) 12:25, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Update I have created the sandbox page and will probably have more time to work on it durring spring break. PS: im currently on editor review check it out! DBZROCKS 12:37, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I created a page call Ki power in Dragon Ball, i take the focus out of the numbers and more on how the power work, why is important for the history and i try to do it as an article that can be like the force fro star wars, if somebody can help putting pictures or fixing gramar or making it better you are welcome, i hope nobody delete it like the power level article, thanks. Ykkifenix 19:22, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah about that... what is up with Ki power in Dragon Ball???-- bulletproof 3:16 19:25, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Why must people try to bring this back? This is a small concept in the series that is never expanded upon. As shown by that article, only OR can back it. Also, what's up with the big plot summary that has little to do with the topic? Nemu 19:45, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

text: We don't need a page on the Dragon Ball concept of ki. We just need to link to the "real" ki when talking about it. It is a minor concept that doesn't need explanation, unlike the force, which is a very notable concept used in the various Star Wars mediums, and referenced countless times in others. Nemu 21:47, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't want to start an arguement or anything but i must sayt that Ki/Chi is indeed a large concept. KI/CHI attacks are used in pretty much every volume after 2. An I am not suggesting that it will be formatted the same way as the previous powerlevel article. That one I found was to disorganized. I also think it would be better to just have a page detailing Ki/Chi and one listing all the Canon powerlevels in Dragonball. I doesn't have to be a huge page, there are numerous stubs in Wikipedia. DBZROCKS 00:46, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I deleted them all. They're really only any good if someone would actually type them into the search box. --Deskana (ya rly) 00:50, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  PowerLevel 

message: I recently added references to Son Goku and Son Gohan. I could use some help (adding references to the character pages), however, since I don't have all the manga--$UIT 02:19, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've got all of the DBZ volumes, so I can help where needed. Just let me know what you want a source for and what specifics you want (volume, chapter, page number of chapter, page number of volume, etc.) ~SnapperTo 03:00, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Same here I can help to if Snapper isn't here. DBZROCKS 18:33, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, good to know. Thanks--$UIT 02:46, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have the movies so if any reference is needed from there I can be of help. -凶03:31, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

text: i'll start the Majin buu references now. DBZROCKS 11:40, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dragon Ball references 

message: See Son goku jr.-- bulletproof 3:16 00:54, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It was redirected again, so no problem--$UIT 01:16, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Cool just wanted to bring that up.-- bulletproof 3:16 01:39, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Sigh

message: If a user hasn't contributed in a while to dragonball related articles should we put them on the inactive list? Just wondering. DBZROCKS 19:16, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  About inactive/retired users 

message: Another thing just came to me. Should we have some sort of standerd for people who join? Like they have to have at least 50 edits on dragonball articles or something? DBZROCKS 19:24, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Can we have some sort of standard? Such as you must have more than 30 edits or so to join? I've seen a lot of users with little to no contributions joining, so I was wondering about this--양복42 17:15, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

text: A standard would probably be m:Instruction creep. I would simply suggest removing users who do not have enough contributions to participate in the project meaningfully. --Deskana (Alright, on your feet soldier!) 17:30, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, that's fine--양복42 17:32, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Project Members 

message: Should we put a message or something on the to-do list that reminds about AFD disscussion? Maybe something like Articles in the proccess of being deleted? Just wondering if Im the only one that thinks that's a good idea. DBZROCKS 12:04, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  About Article deletion 

message: If you are going to keep pages like Gotenks as a redirect, you also might want to keep them on your watchlists because they are being reverted. -- bulletproof 3:16 22:36, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Huh? DBZROCKS 22:38, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The redirect on the Gotenks page is being reverted by a user and is becoming its own article again.-- bulletproof 3:16 22:49, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: check it here-- bulletproof 3:16 22:52, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh. Ok then just warn the guy. Happy april! DBZROCKS 23:04, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Redirects

message: I was thinking about the way we have our lists right now and thought maybe if we could order it by charecter instead of dividing it between villians and Heros. Take list of Aliens in Dragonball for instance. We could have it as Babidi Related Aliens  Bojack related Aliens, Coola related Aliens, Doctor Myu related Aliens, Freeza Related Aliens, Namekians and Other Aliens. For Earthlings we could divide it up with Androids, Humans and Animals. Also would Piccolo Diamo be listed as an alien and a supernatural being? Same with Kami. DBZROCKS 12:15, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  About the ordering of lists 

message: Guys I just got through coming form the Super Saiyan article and had to do a lot of vandlism and useless info removal. And I mean ALOT of it. So can you guys and gals help me look through the article and find or fix any thing they truly messed up or missing. Just compare my revision and editing to the vandlised version and see all of the, excuse my language, BullS--- that was add. however if I done something wrong let me know and fix it for me too. Thank for listening. Heat P 23:31, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  SSJ Page HELP!! 

message: It took a while but I finally reodered the List of aliens in Dragon Ball‎ to make it neater. Tell me what you think. DBZROCKS 21:21, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of Aliens in Dragon Ball 

message: Guys and Gals. I know that we mainly been aiming on cleaning up stuff like vandalism and trying to fix the articles Super Saiyan and Goku but I think we need to begin to move our focus more to other articles such as Vegeta's, Piccolo's, and Cell's. Goku's is nearly fixed and Super Saiyan is fixed with the exception of vandalism here and there. So I suggest lets move on to other articles that needs more fixing and updating. We can't just mainly stick to those to and Gohan's (another we mainly focus on too). Only a suggestion. Heat P 01:32, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't forget Future Trunks and Son Goten__$UIT 03:21, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree Heat. I started revisions on the Super Saiyan article, it' really difficult to do stuff with the Goku one though. I also agree with you SUIT, Goten and Future Trunks. --Majinvegeta 07:22, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't forget Coola and Pan. I have cleaned up Pan quite a bit but it still needs work. Also I have noticed that many articles have a lot about the charecter's role in Dragon Ball Z but almost no mention of thier role in Dragon Ball. This needs to be fixed. DBZROCKS 11:34, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Update Hey is anyone willing to change every instance of Cooler to Coola on the coola article? `Cause its supposed to be Coola. DBZROCKS 12:01, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Yeah and I agree that Cell's article is a mess. One we should probably make a form  and transformations section and take the images in the article to there. Then someone could get us some new images. DBZROCKS 12:13, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I just started cleaning up the Goten article. I would help out with the Coola one, but I've never seen those movies. Don't plan to either. I'll check out the Cell one, see what I can do. --Majinvegeta 20:21, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm taking on Vegeta. I hope I am doing on ok job. I wanna make it a little small. Anyone can take a look at it and give me any suggestions? Heat P 20:34, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yea, two personality sections? I definitely think we could combine the two, in fact I don't really know if he actually need one, no other character really has one. A slight mention of their personalities is enough in my opinion. That article is extremely long too, I defintely think that you'll need help. If you want help, you know where to find me! :D --Majinvegeta 22:10, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No actually I think Vegeta should have two. He is one of the more complicated charecters after all though I do agree they can be trimmed down. DBZROCKS 22:16, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I already combined the two personality sections, I explained the changes in his personality, that's all we need in my opinion. Feel free to look at it. --Majinvegeta 22:53, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I went and fixed much of Vegeta's Dragon Ball Z section. Now it is time to go over it and cut Vegeta down to size. (Pun Intended). Hey gotta laugh sometimes. Heat P 00:36, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: LOL, Beautiful pun. I haven't seen your revisions yet, I'll check em out right now!--Majinvegeta 05:22, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Time to hit up other articles for clean up. 

message: It was redirected earlier, then it was recreated. Anyone want me to redirect it?--$UIT 03:25, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm telling you man. Redirected pages should always be kept on watchlists to prevent this from happening. -- bulletproof 3:16 03:43, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, I'll keep an eye on them--$UIT 03:47, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why is it being redirected to that page? The main Dragon Ball page really isn't related to the Ki Dragonball one other then it being part of the Dragonball universe. I don't get it. --Majinvegeta 07:24, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Ki (Dragon Ball)]] 

message: Here, another one. sigh... keep it on your watchlists.-- bulletproof 3:16 22:14, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Two words: Speedy deletion. DBZROCKS 22:15, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It was tagged as "total fancruft recreation of redirected page", but I don't know what page was being referred to. I would delete it otherwise. --Deskana (fry that thing!) 22:33, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: And that's a pic is SS2 Goku, not Vegetto. Speedy deletion, I agree. --Majinvegeta 22:51, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Vegeto and Gogeta]]

message: I've noticed this article has been replaced with a redirect to the Dragon Ball article. Why? Ki is an important Dragon Ball concept. TTN said that many of us here at this wikiproject don't want the article around. Where did this disscussion take place? Also why direct it to the Dragon Ball article when it has no information on ki? I just want to see if anyone else here agreed with me and wanted to disscuss this. DBZROCKS 23:25, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: While I slightly over exaggerated, including me, there are at least three who disagree with the page. Not everything needs a formal discussion. Besides that, the only arguments for keeping it are fan arguments or arguments that are covered at WP:ATA. It's redirected to the DB page just so because. The info isn't meant to be covered at all. Nemu 23:33, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I see that it isn't the best article in its present condition. However it is an important part of the series. Also I do recall the Manga specifically stating some of the things in the article and if I was given the chance I think I could add a few references. Its bad writing could be easily cleaned up if some experianced users worked at it. Also 3 out of the 20 or so users contributing to this wikiproject is 15%. I don't want to start an arguement I just think it would be better if more of our WikiProject users commented on this. DBZROCKS 23:46, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well DBR I will have to agree with Nemu (which is a rare thing) on this. Yes in Dragon Ball, Ki is a big thing but Ki is mainly of a human trait in Dragon Ball as every single alien and supernatural begin has abilities similar to ki but has no known explanation of how or why they have powers from the start. Yes there are references but not too many. The biggest has to be when Gohan teaches Videl how to fly. With no true explanation on how the aliens and SNB have these powers from the getgo there really is no room for a Ki article. Heat P 00:56, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Many things are unexplained in dragon Ball. But it is true that chi/ki is life force that can be used for various perposes. Chi is shared by all beings. Majin Buu has chi Freeza has Chi Cell has chi everyone in the whole manga has chi. DBZROCKS 01:08, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Yes, but why does that matter to the casual reader? It should be good enough to just link to the "real" ki article due to the fact that in DB, it's just energy. There is nothing special about it that requires an article (to the casual reader. Don't think like a fan, think as if you had never even heard of the series). Nemu 01:14, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: True many things are not explained in DB but other than human beings and the andriods there really is not way to explain the Aliens and SNB Ki or Chi situaion. If agreed to do it. It will take a lot of reading to find a way to explain them. You know me though, I may disagree with it but I am down with finding a way to do it. So DBR, friend if you do need help with it I am with you despite my decision. Heat P 01:18, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think chi can be explained as life force because technically thats what it is. I think it explains why androids don't have Ki because they aren't really alive (i think gohan said this). aliens have it but usually can't sense it without the aid of scouters Which is where power levels come in. Cell has Chi because he is organic but is just made artificially. DBZROCKS 01:24, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You're still thinking like fans, i.e. too in depth. This information doesn't need to be gathered. The bits about the androids are the only important things that would need mention, but it only requires a few sentences here and there. Much of what you're trying to say is borderline OR also. Nemu 01:28, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Sorry DBR, but again I would have to agree with Nemu. Heat P 01:30, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Also before we go any further let see what the others has to say. Even though it is only about 6 or 7 of us that come to the Project page to discuss stuff. Heat P 01:35, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My eailier comment was a response to Heat P's statement about aliens and Chi not a suggestion about what would be in the article. We can put a message on user's talk pages about this disscussion. DBZROCKS 01:40, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Cool, Go for it man. Heat P 01:41, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok. DBZROCKS 01:42, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Pehaps the creation of an article that lists animes/mangas with Super powers, giving brief discriptions of the powers used in the anime? I know, kind of a stupid idea, but who doesn't like reading about any super powers? Naruto could be there, Gundum, FMA.... anyone? --Majinvegeta 02:38, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That would just be a huge list of trivia. It'll get deleted--$UIT 02:49, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I agree with the fact that ki plays a important role in DB, however it will be almost impossible creating a page that fits Wikipedia's standards. A page listing the powers will be kind of a trivia but it probably won't be deleted Superman has something simmilar see here, it might not be such a bad idea. -凶 03:41, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Either way, it'll just be a large list.--$UIT 04:10, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think it'll really be a list. I think the page should more focus on explaining how Ki ties in with powerlevels, what people do with it, and how Ki capacity adjusts due to transformations. We don't really have those explanations anywhere except indirect mentions on the Super Saiyan article. Perhaps a non-specific list for general attacks: energy waves, energy barriers, flight, ect.? --Majinvegeta 05:27, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Hm i think it would be a bad Idea to put it on list of Dragon Ball special abilities Ki is not a unique ability everyone in Dragon Ball has ki. I agree with Faud here (even if some of his points were my own) that Ki is explained. But I also like Megatronacepticon's idea about making a list of dragon Ball concepts. DBZROCKS 11:32, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't really see the need for a whole article dedicated to "Dragon Ball concepts". Aside from Ki (which isn't a concept solely original to Dragon ball anyhow) what else are you gonna put on there? The attack list seems the best place to put the info on Ki as it pertains to Dragon Ball rather than create an arguably redundant article on it (again redundant because there's already an actual Ki article). True it's not a unique character specific ability, however the attack list also lists multiple characters who use the same technique, so I don't see the problem with just noting that Ki is the universal catch all for all these powers and abilities (making special note of the Artificial Humans using synthesized immitation Ki, or characters whose powers are magical or biological, like Babidi and the Namekians etc.). Of all the pre-existing Dragon Ball articles, this one is by far the best choice to stick in this info (which I agree is pretty important relating to this series). Fuad Ramses 18:44, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Thanks for the info Faud. However I do not HAZY on the idea. I actually think it was a good idea but it is not enough info on other beings besides humans and andriods about ki to create a good article. Aliens can't sense Ki. explained in a few sentences. Cell abilities with Ki. After review and cut downs, it at best is one small paragraph. SNB, like Buu, their powers are mainly suppose to be magical and not Ki based despite the Z-fighters ability to feel Buu's and others powers. Nice info but in still not enough for a good article. HOWEVER I did said to DBZROCKS that if there is a way to add it or create a way then I am down with it and as you have given a way to add it to the Dragon Ball universe then I am down with it being on the List of Dragon Ball special abilities article. My take in short, Article? NO. Add to List of Dragon Ball special abilities? YES. Heat P 17:51, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Quick correction Heat; Buu's powers are both magic AND Ki based. His standard fighting abilities are Ki based same as everyone else (again this is stated numerous times), but his ability to destroy gods and deities, transform stuff into sweets, as well as his gummy body structure (him being a creature created by magic) are rooted in magic (according to the Kaioshins). Not sure about his ability to rip holes in the fabric of reality; that one's kinda open to debate seeing as how Gotenks does it too. Again, magic and Ki are two separate concepts in the Dragon Ball universe (and in general I suppose). You are I'm afraid to say, quite wrong about the Z Fighter's ability to sense magical beings power in spite of not being Ki. Again going off the Japanese version, when Gohan fights Dabura (who also uses a combination of magic and Ki) he notes that Dabura's version of the Zanzoken (after image) technique leaves no trace of Ki, and therefore must be magic based. Wheras Buu's gargantuan Ki signature can be sensed (literally) from orbit. So to sum up, in Dragon Ball Ki can be sensed. Magic can't. And no it's not that ALIENS can't sense Ki. If that were the case, Piccolo, the other Namekians, Paikuhan, Goku, Vegeta, etc. wouldn't be doing it constantly throughout the series. It's just Freeza and all his goons that have this problem (hence the scouters). You are correct however that all this can be neatly summed up in a simple Ki section in the Attack List article. I'm totally with you there. Fuad Ramses 18:44, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Only thing is adding it to list of special abilities is slightly wierd because every one has it. Its not an ability. Its not even special, everyone has it. Also of course magic can't be sensed because its magic not ki. Also Faud what do you mean Majin buu has the unique ability to kill gods? Gods can be killed by anyone that is stronger than them. DBZROCKS 20:33, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think ki would be better on the main Dragon Ball series article than the attack list, personally. As for killing gods, I believe Faud means that when he killed them they stayed dead. When Kaio-sama was killed by Cell his soul manifested pretty much right away in physical form with a halo. Ditto Rou Kaioshin when he gave his life to bring back Goku. That privelege that certain heroes are given to stay in Heaven with bodies (instead of being processed) seems to be an automatic perk of being a god. And even if they went for processing, would a godly soul be reborn as a mortal? It seems that when Buu killed the Kaioshin he wiped them from existence. Even the two he absorbed, South and Dai Kaioshin, are never seen again despite everyone else he absorbs being set free. Onikage725 21:38, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

text: (light bulb flash) Remember that article we had on scouters? We could add this to the article along with ki suppressing transforming and add some power-level information to the Scouter article. No its not going to go over 2 pages but it would still work better than merging it into special abilities. DBZROCKS 21:02, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, won't last long. When the old ki and scouter articles were said to be too small, I merged them all with the power level article. That article was then deleted for being "unverified fancruft" and "not notable" (despite the info coming from the manga, anime, and daizenshuu, and on the list everything was labeled as such). If people feel that something isn't properly cited, instead of putting a citation needed note , they seem to label it cruft and delete away. Onikage725 21:51, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Im not gonna let that happen this time by the time im through with it its gonna have more sources than the Wii article! Also the powerlevel article was puny in the first place so adding scouter wouldn't of done much good DBZROCKS 00:38, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ki (Dragon Ball) 

message: Power level (Dragon Ball) and Dragon Ball Z Power Levels have been recreated after the result in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Power level (Dragon Ball) (second nomination). I have tagged each page with a speedy-delete notice. -- bulletproof 3:16 23:10, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: wow that made the old powerlevel article look like a featured article. DBZROCKS 23:15, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

text: MY GOD!!! What the heck is that bullcrap? That mess needs to be erased as soon as possible. Nothing in that so call article makes any senses. Heat P 23:23, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed and nice joke. DBZROCKS 23:27, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh. My. God. Onikage725 01:20, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ehhh.... I'm not a fan of Power Level pages in general with regards to DBZ. For one thing they almost ALWAYS degenerate into mindless bickering and personal favorite character one upsmanship amongst (largely) idiots. Certainly not the kind of thing Wikipedia welcomes, hence why they never last long. And secondly... they just aren't that big a deal in the grand scheme of the series. I mean really Power Levels (technically Battle Power if we wanna get nitpicky over proper translation) were used merely as a plot device for what, two sagas? Ki itelf is by far and away the more important subject and Power Levels ought to be a footnote in a Ki article, not vice versa. Point being given the choice between a Ki article and a Power level Article, I'd easily choose a Ki article. However I still say having a new article isn't even necessary; just slip in Ki as it's own section in the Special Abilities list. I dunno why DBZROCKS is so hung up on the idea that it doesn't belong there cause it's not a unique trait; that has nothing to do with the fact that it fits in perfectly as an overall explanation for WHY these characters can do all the insane crap described in that article. I'll rehash my overall point once more I suppose; Ki ain't unique to DBZ. It's a real life concept, and therefore already has a Wikipedia article detailing it's real life history and use. Having another article dedicated to Ki as it pertains to DBZ seems kinda redundant. However there is enough unique (and story important) uses of the concept in the series to warrant it's own section (yes with Power Levels getting explained as well) in a pre-existing DBZ article; and the abilities list is the perfect candidate. DBZROCKS also made mention of perhaps making a whole article about "DBZ Concepts", but the only thing that can really be thrown in there is.... Ki. Hell at this point, I'm about ready to write up the Ki section in the abilities article myself. However if it does come down to creating a new article, then it should be a Ki article rather than a Power level one. Fuad Ramses 08:26, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd ust say PLs deserve mention within the context of wherever ki and/or scouters wind up (if anywhere). They were a major plot device of the space pirates, who were the major villains for over a hundred episodes. They're around through ep 120 or 121 ( I forget), and the last scouter useage is there (though that doesnt factor the garlic Jr. saga). Also, PLs are just a numerical representation of one's capacity of channel ki. Toriyama shifted the stories into sci fi for a bit, and we werent tracking everything only by how they felt- now we were getting some instruments and mathematics too (and a slap in the face for scinece over mysticims as they were ultimately inferior). Still the two are just different ways of achiveing a similar goal (ki sense vs scouter, "huge ki" vs "180,000!"), and as such should be mentioned wherever the parent concept of ki gets mentioned. As a side note- the general feeling that the old PL list was cruft is just bitterness from ppl used to bad DBZ fansites. We only had numbers from the manga, anime, movies, and Daiz' (all mentioned as such) i.e. ONLY official sources. Whether or not a list comes back for PLs I could care less. I just want that much to be clear.Onikage725 12:07, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Yeah um it was megaceptitron's idea I just thought it was cool. Also your forgeting that scouters ki suppressing and Transformation are all a part of it. DBZROCKS 11:42, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Power Level

message: Well there is a edit war going on at the Super Saiyan page again. Know over the Neko Majin Z main character Z begin a Super Saiyan. Well you have to look at the article to see whats going on. But I founded out something most may have looked over. In Neko Majin # 5 (the same manga number Goku and Z fight) on page 190 we have some special DBZ guess even though it is one panel. We not only have Goku (as well as Vegeta and Buu in other manga volumes) in this manga volume we have Chi Chi, Pan, Goten, and Ox king greeting Z and his sidekick or friend to Goku's house. Just for a heads up if you are interested in seeing or reading the manga go to http://dragonballarena.gamesurf.it and it has actual uploaded volumes to read. Sorry if it seems like I spammed it. But trust me check it out.Heat P 05:27, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Something found out. 

message: Yet another random user has redirected Coola to Cooler, using the fact that "his name is spelled Cooler on the official website (i.e. FUNimation's site)" as justification. Apparently they haven't bothered to look at the DB Wikiproject page, nor even bothered to notice the trend of proper Japanese name usage in general.
Could one of our illustrious mods here please redirect the redirect (or whatever) back to Coola? I would have done it myself, but there's something weird with this one, as I got a message suggesting I should notify a mod to move the article.
Thanks in advance! Fuad Ramses 21:27, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed. DBZROCKS 00:58, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it hasn't been. I think a mod needs to move it back. Why does it seem like such a hassle to fix thee things, yet it only takes someone a few minutes to create the situation in the first place... Onikage725 03:03, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oy... Coola redirect. 

message: Yet again some random user has put up a random DragonBall related item up for deletion. in this case it is the Appears in template that is on all of our charecters. Please let us stop this from being unlawfully deleted. DBZROCKS 22:16, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: User:^demon isn't a random user, he's an administrator--$UIT 01:37, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ugh templates 

message: A user with the name Shadow Sonic Silver has been terriorising Dragon Ball pages for a while now. He has multiple sockpupptets which have all been blocked along with Shadow Sonic Silver. However he is fond of creating mulitple accounts with which to vandalise with. His user Names usually have something to do with Sonic, Shadow, Silver, The LSS, Broly Or Sephiroth also more recentally he has started using molly in his names. His contributions usually consist of Dragon Ball related vandalism and mutiple edits to the pages of users MightyKombat and Silver Fang with the intention of Vandalism. It has also been confirmed that the three go to the same school and that is the time they edit wikipedia. MightyKombat and Silver Fang are legitimate users however and are most definitally not vandals. So if you see anyone that fits the above discription look at his contributes to make sure and if it is indeed this vandal imeadatally report him to WP:SSP. Here is a list of his confirmed usernames.
Let no sock escape! DBZROCKS 23:01, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In light of vandals, I saw that User:Recoome removed his sockpuppet tag from his userpage, I put it back. Just thought you should know DBZROCK. 66.229.120.240 17:25, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Thanks for bringing this to their attention man MightyKombat 16:59, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandal Profile