Talk:Triệu dynasty

message: Tần Thủy Hoàng (秦始皇; Qin Shi Huang) conquered 6 separate countries (六國) and made it his states; one of them were Hán Quốc (漢 國;Han Guó; country of Han). Qin Shi Huang named the newly unified countries "Qin". The Qin controlled China before the rebellion broke out and the Han took over. Han and Qin are or would have been two separate races, culture, customs and tradition during that time. They were not the same Chinese ethnic group as it is referred to today. Knowing that the Han wanted to occupy his country, Zhao Tuo (Triệu Đà) would of detested the Han Chinese culture for this reason.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.250.8.24 (talk) 21:18, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Differences between Qin and Han 

message: It would be much easier to discuss if those who prpose to merge articles would give reasons. Read here: Talk:Nam Việt why I oppose --峻義 Jùnyì  論 15:47, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  About merging this article with Nam Việt 

message: Are the Hán tự for Au Lac 瓯駱? Badagnani 04:42, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The page en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th%E1%BB%A5c_Dynasty on An Dương Vương shows the characters for Âu Lạc as (甌雒/甌駱) in probably traditional Chinsese. Your version shown is probably simplified Chinese of the same. The answer to your question is probably Yes. Uwe 123.243.142.170 (talk) 05:06, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Au Lac

message: Many slight changes of dates have been made recently by an anon editor, regarding the years of reigns, etc. in this article and many others in the History of Vietnam series. This can be very dangerous if we don't know why this is being done. Can each such edit be explained in the future? Otherwise, we're going to have a set of possibly wrong dates for our users to refer to. If the dates conflict in the sources, present the sources at "Discussion" and we will evaluate them and select the correct one. Badagnani 08:20, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Changes of dates

message: How much Chinese was in evidence in this dynasty, as it was a Han general who founded it, and it occupied vast tracts of southern China? Shouldn't there be Chinese characters here as well? The image seems to indicate that most of the territory is not in Vietnam. 132.205.44.5 (talk) 03:55, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The article appears not to be about the actual historical period but of the Vietnamese perception of said period. Badagnani (talk) 01:18, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Both Vietnamese and Chinese sources need to be taken into account along with international records as well as the latest archaelogical accounts.Sea888 (talk) 18:38, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: What international records could have been conducted back then? The West had other problems. --2.245.161.112 (talk) 16:56, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Southern China 

message: I'm moving this, it is not encyclopeadic.Sea888 (talk) 18:38, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Moving what? Badagnani (talk) 19:12, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Questions in the article?

message: Are the Han tu 趙朝? Badagnani (talk) 18:38, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Han tu]] 

message: See . Badagnani (talk) 23:06, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Large removal of text 

message: See . Badagnani (talk) 19:55, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removals of text 

message: Changing "Chinese" to "Han Chinese" (Not to be confuse with Korea) would be more appropriate. Triệu Đà (Zhao Tuo) wasn't even Han (Chinese). Chân Định, which is now Heibei province of China, was the land of the Triệu Kingdom (Zhao kingdom) during the Warring Period. The Qin under Tần Thủy Hoàng (Qin Shi Huang) conquered six kingdoms, which gave Triệu Đà and his followers an opportunity to merge with the Việt (Yue) and adopt a new identity. 
Before the Han Dynasty, The Han Kingdom was located north of Chu Kingdom, south of Wei Kingdom and Zhao (Triệu) Kingdom, east of Qin Kingdom and west of Việt (Yue) Kingdom; somewhere near the Han River near Hubei province of modern China. Thus, the name "Han" is because of the civilization that lived near the Han River.  Calling everything "Han" is one way that the Han Chinese use to sinicize neighboring cultures.
Badagnani, I praise your effort for helping with the Vietnamese History. Thank you. Please direct your skills to help the Tibetian retain their own history and culture. Thanks.
Furthermore, the term "Chinese" should be change to only "Han Chinese" so that it does not conflict with the 55 ethnic group living in China. Also, the word Chinese to describe Triệu Đà would not be accurate.
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What? Your claim is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of. First, Zhao Tuo was born in Zhending, where was the state of Zhao, but this Zhao is nothing related to the State of Zhao later founded by Zhao Tuo. Also, Zhaotuo was a Chinese, he founded his kingdom in China and expanded it to northern Vietnam; so stop changing his nationality. The most ridiculous thing is claiming one of the warring states which located thousands of miles from today's Vietnam was Vietnamese. Why don't you just say Vietnam once owned entire China eventhough there wasn't a civilization called "Vietnam" back then.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.171.158.154 (talk) 02:37, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Historical account 

message: This is turning into a POV fork that replicates the subject of Nanyue but described from a different POV. This article should be merged into better-written and better sourced Nanyue, with appropriate space devoted to describing the different perspectives on the subject. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 20:00, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Ideally, the two should be merged into a single "Nam Viet" article. This is what Britannica has and it is more NPOV than using a name attached to either of the two nationalistic viewpoints involved. The two articles have been separate for a long time and there was a vote on this before with no consensus. Kauffner (talk) 08:56, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: No, one is a dynasty article, the other is a country article. We have similar articles for ruling houses and countries in other parts of the world. 65.93.15.125 (talk) 23:53, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Not where the dynasty and the state are completely contiguous and the dynasty page simply serves to preserve a nationalistic POV fork (rather belied by Nam Viet redirecting here instead of to Nanyue). Absolutely they should be merged. — LlywelynII 15:05, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  The Nanyue article is rather long, so it is entirely appropriate to have a separate article on the dynasty. 70.24.247.40 (talk) 04:54, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

text: Nam Viet redirects to Nanyue. Why should the Chinese name take precedence? Aside from the POV issue, "Nam Viet" is the more common English-language name for this entity. Kauffner (talk) 05:58, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: You were answered at Talk:Nanyue when your proposal was rejected. Start a new one if you want to bring it up again. 70.24.247.40 (talk) 04:54, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: POV Fork

message: After a little Googling, I conclude that Zhào Mò's usual name in Vietnamese is Văn Vương. The title of his Vietnamese Wikipedia article is Triệu Văn Vương (King Triệu Văn), so I am taking this as the formal version of the name and "Văn Vương" as an abbreviated form. Hardly anyone uses "Triệu Muội". If you convert Zhào Mò/趙眜 to Vietnamese, you get Triệu Mắt, but I don't see this name appearing much either. Muội/ means "dull witted" whereas Mắt/ means "eyes," so Muội could be a joke of some kind. Kauffner (talk) 01:50, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Zhào Mò's Vietnamese name

message: There seems to be a lot of misconception regarding the Han state. First of all, there were seven states during the Warrings States period of China, one of which was the Han (Han having the same character as Korea) state (another being the Qin state, which unified China, and formed the Qin Dynasty). It would be difficult to comment on race, but they likely all contributed to the genes of modern Han Chinese to some extent. In fact, all seven were vassal states of an earlier Chinese Dynasty, the Zhou Dynasty. Another was the Zhao State (or the Trieu state). This earlier Han state had little to do with the later Han Dynasty, or the modern Han Chinese (so named because of the Han Dynasty). They did not even share the same character. Zhao Tuo/Trieu Da was from the Zhao (Trieu) state originally, although it was later conquered by the Qin, which was in turn replaced by the Han Dynasty, after a period of rebellion. Trieu Da named the state he founded Nam Viet (and it was only referred to later as the Trieu Dynasty).
I realise a lot of these posts are fairly old, but I am posting this section anyway, in the hopes of someone coming across this in the future.  Whipster (talk) 12:53, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Han of the Warring States 

message: There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Lady Trieu which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RMCD bot 06:00, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Move discussion in progress

message: Professor Liam Kelley pointed out that Nanyue has little to do with Vietnam. The inhabitants of Nanyue were Tai peoples ancestral to the Zhuang people while their King Zhao Tuo was Chinese. Vietnamese from the Red River Delta were mere vassals of Nanyue. Using a Vietnamese name for this article is out of hand.Rajmaan (talk) 04:18, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I am not sure if a blog source is reliable though. It is a self–published source so it may be a warning sign that the source is not reliable per WP:BLOGS. The article is more like an opinion piece which unfortunately is repeated throughout his blog site. He analyses it yet does not provide justification for it with reliable sources and fails to take other perspectives into account. I did noticed that the professor is an expert in this field and has published scholarly articles. I think journal articles may be a better and safer option to use than blogs. Ssbbplayer (talk) 03:59, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Propose to move the article to either the Zhuang or Chinese name for Zhao

message: This article should either be removed or merged with the article 'Nanyue'. The two articles write about exactly the same entity. I can prove linguistically that Nanyue and Zhao dynasty have nothing to do with the Vietnamese. I may have to notify the administrators about the deletion of this article. Gustmeister (talk) 19:07, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article should either be removed or merged with the article 'Nanyue'