Talk:Monarchy of Fiji

message: I'm confused, is HM the Head of State of Fiji, or does she just have a special status? Therequiembellishere 03:33, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The simplest answer is that Constitutionally, the Queen is not recognized.  Constitutionally, she is a nobody.  However, the Great Council of Chiefs (a body representing Fiji's chiefs) recognizes her as Fiji's most senior chief.  The flag and other symbols retained from the colonial and Commonwealth Realm era (which ended in 1987) have not been changed, for historical reasons - for much the same reason that some southern states in the USA retain the flag of the Confederacy as part of their own flag. David Cannon 09:36, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Head of State? 

message: Per , I think it's misleading the other way. Both the GCC and the Constitution are suspended; the events described happened in the past.
Per WP:DATED and WP:RELTIME, phrases like "current" and "still" should be avoided in favor of time-resistant grammatical forms. DrKay (talk) 11:02, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not fundamentally opposed to using the past tense, but it does seem more misleading to me than the present tense. It suggests that there has been a formal change or revocation of that recognition. True, the GCC is suspended (the abrogation of the Constitution seems immaterial to the Queen's status), but the current government has made no move to revoke its recognition of the Queen's honorific function as Paramount Chief. Rather the contrary. The Queen's birthday is still celebrated, and, significantly, Bainimarama has publicly described himself as a monarchist, wishing the Queen would one day resume her full duties as monarch. That being the case, I would tenatively favour the article assuming a maintaining of the status quo, rather than assuming a change. Aridd (talk) 21:25, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tense 

message: It is not correct the "Tui Viti title, and it is not officially recognised by the current de facto Fijian government, it remains dormant in usage". The Tui Viti title is quite separate from the constitutional status of head of state. The Queen is still regarded as Tui viti, irrespective of whether the Queen is also head of state.203.80.61.102 (talk) 00:06, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confusion between head of state and Tui Viti 

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message: There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Monarchy of the United Kingdom which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RMCD bot 21:59, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move discussion in progress 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: === Monarchy Origin ===
According to legend, Fiji's high chief, Lutunasobasoba,  Lutunasobasoba n. name of legendary chief who led a migration to Fiji perhaps in the 1500s, landing at Vuda, a story often touted as the First Landing. In fact he was long preceded by Melanesians from the Solomons and Vanuatu. Stories differ, whether he remained there, died there, or travelled on to Nakauvadra Range, or even went on to Verata before dying. He was accompanied by Degei who settled at Nakauvadra. This whole movement introduced the notions of aristocratic chiefs, a foreign notion to earlier immigrants.Fijian–English Dictionary: with notes on Fijian culture and natural history-Ronald Gatty. Suva,Fiji, pg 149, 2009. https://ecommons.cornell.edu/handle/1813/28702   the eldest son of Tura originated from Lake Tanganyika in Africa. 
The arrival of Tura (landed at Naicobocobo, Bua), Ai Tukutuku kei Viti. Methodist Missionary Magazine (April) Epeli Rokowaqa, 1926.Republished as 'Viti Makawa', Kolinio Meo. his eldest son Lutunasobasoba (landed at Vuda) Ai Tukutuku kei Viti. Methodist Missionary Magazine (April) Epeli Rokowaqa, 1926.Republished as 'Viti Makawa', Kolinio Meo. and Degei & siblings (landed at the Rakiraki coast)  Ai Tukutuku kei Viti. Methodist Missionary Magazine (April) Epeli Rokowaqa, 1926.Republished as 'Viti Makawa', Kolinio Meo.  in Fiji resulted in numerous tribal wars with earlier settlers from Israel - Ephraim warrior tribe who left Jerusalem during the Assyrian conquest in 723 BC but continued to worship Jehovah but had intermarried with the original inhabitants of Fiji (Nephilim offspring). The later group continued with their ancient religion of human sacrifice and cannibalism from ancestral practice in Africa, Babylon and Egypt until the arrival of Christianity in Fiji in 1835.
According to legend, Tura's ancestral lineage were supposedly one of King Solomon (the son of King David) with Queen Sheba.
This ancestral link may have attributed to the current flag of the Fiji islands to portray one of the golden lions carved on King Solomon's throne, even though no lions can be found in Fiji, Solomon or other island countries in the Pacific. As described in the christian holy bible... and there were arms on either side by the place of the seat, and two lions standing beside the arms {Holy Bible: 1 Kings 10:19}. And twelve lions stood there on the one side and on the other upon the six steps; there was not the like made in any kingdom {Holy Bible: 1 Kings 10:20}.
=== Monarchy of Fiji- Tui Viti Authority With Roko Tui Bau at Vatanitawake, Bau Island.===
The ancestral Chief Vuetiverata, more commonly remembered as simply Vueti, was the eldest great grandson of Lutunasobasoba  Tukutuku Raraba – History of Bau (aliases Koroi-Ratu mai Bulu, Serui-Ratu mai Bulu) and first Roko Tui Bau. According to legend he was the son of Paula, the chief of Davetalevu from Moturiki and grandson of Buisavulu, the eldest of Lutunasobasoba who was the eldest of Tura. The title Roko Tui Bau or 'Lord of Bau' was for a chiefly title in commemoration of a tribe called Bau for Veibauyaki or nomadic tribe that settled in a place called Kubuna, now known as a confederacy or Matanitu in modern Fiji but in pre-colonial times Kubuna was a physical location near Nayavu, Wainibuka. 
Vueti's title, Roko Tui Bau is regarded as the highest traditional title in Fiji and the head of Kubuna, the same name for the first established place of several groups migrating out after the Nakauvadra war.
After the Nakauvadra war, Vueti left via Nakorotubu where he had his first (1st) born child, a son, the original GonesauFijian–English Dictionary: with notes on Fijian culture and natural history-Ronald Gatty. Suva,Fiji, pg 90, 2009. https://ecommons.cornell.edu/handle/1813/28702   or 'child with super natural power', called Nadurucoko who was born through supernatural circumstances with a women from Suva in Bureiwai, Nakorotubu.Native Lands Commission (NLC), Ratu Meli Salabogi (2), 1918. 
Nadurucoko the original Gonesau, was the father of Nailatikau Nabuinivuaka, the first (1st) Vunivalu of Bau and Kubuna.Native Lands Commission (NLC), 'Tukutuku ni Yavusa Kubuna', Ratu Isoa Natuituba, 1918  Genealogy on the Origin of the 1st Vunivalu from Nakorotubu, Ra presented on page 31 by the late Ratu Joni Madraiwiwi, Roko Tui Bau & 2006-2009 Vice President of Fiji in 'The Life and Times of Cakobau: The Bauan State to 1855'- A thesis submitted for the degree of Doctor of Philosophy in the University of Otago, New Zealand By Hurray P. Heasley, B.A. (Hons.), Otago. August, 2010.  
Vueti was given a sacred stone by the chiefs of Fiji at Nakauvadra because he had defeated the Tui Viti's twin sons at Nakauvadra. When he reached the outer island, he named the island as Bau and ordered for a sacred temple to be built and buried the sacred stone (tawake kei Viti) at the foundation mound and named the temple as Vatanitawake translated as 'the shelter or shelve of the signifying authority award/flag of Fiji'. Tui Viti signifying authority award or flag (tawake) is mentioned on pg 103.  https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f5/Archeological_Investigation_of_Vatanitawake_-A_Ceremonial_Mound_on_the_Island_of_Bau%2C_Fiji_Islands..pdf 
The monarchy of Fiji was taken over in the mid-nineteenth century when native ruler Seru Epenisa Cakobau burned the Vatanitawake Tui Viti signifying authority award or flag (tawake) is mentioned on pg 103.  https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f5/Archeological_Investigation_of_Vatanitawake_-A_Ceremonial_Mound_on_the_Island_of_Bau%2C_Fiji_Islands..pdf , eliminated Roko Tui Bau's Vusaratu clan in Bau and consolidated control of the Fijian Islands and declared himself King or paramount chief of Fiji (). In 1874, he voluntarily ceded sovereignty of the islands to Britain, which made Fiji a Crown colony within the British Empire. After nearly a century of British rule, Fiji became a Dominion, an independent sovereign state within the Commonwealth of Nations with Elizabeth II as head of state. After a second military coup in 1987, Fiji became a republic, and the monarchy was ended. Nevertheless, the Great Council of Chiefs recognised Elizabeth II as Tui Viti or the traditional Queen of Fiji, but the position is not one of a constitutional, or otherwise legal nature. The Great Council of Chiefs was disestablished in 2012 by decree. Elizabeth II does not use the title, and the Fijian government does not recognise it.
Saqiwa (talk) 06:33, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia doesn't publish original research or give undue prominence to one view over another. This has been explained to you already. DrKay (talk) 16:05, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Can Someone Provide The Reasons For The Continous Deletion To My [[Monarchy of Fiji]] Contribution Below?

message: The ancestral Chief Vuetiverata, more commonly remembered as simply Vueti, was the eldest great grandson of Lutunasobasoba  Tukutuku Raraba – History of Bau (aliases Koroi-Ratu mai Bulu, Serui-Ratu mai Bulu) and first Roko Tui Bau. According to legend he was the son of Paula, the chief of Davetalevu from Moturiki and grandson of Buisavulu, the eldest of Lutunasobasoba who was the eldest of Tura. The title Roko Tui Bau or 'Lord of Bau' was for a chiefly title in commemoration of a tribe called Bau for Veibauyaki or nomadic tribe that settled in a place called Kubuna, now known as a confederacy or Matanitu in modern Fiji but in pre-colonial times Kubuna was a physical location near Nayavu, Wainibuka. 
Vueti's title, Roko Tui Bau is regarded as the highest traditional title in Fiji and the head of Kubuna, the same name for the first established place of several groups migrating out after the Nakauvadra war.
After the Nakauvadra war, Vueti left via Nakorotubu where he had his first (1st) born child, a son, the original GonesauFijian–English Dictionary: with notes on Fijian culture and natural history-Ronald Gatty. Suva,Fiji, pg 90, 2009. https://ecommons.cornell.edu/handle/1813/28702   or 'child with super natural power', called Nadurucoko who was born through supernatural circumstances with a women from Suva in Bureiwai, Nakorotubu.Native Lands Commission (NLC), Ratu Meli Salabogi (2), 1918. 
Nadurucoko the original Gonesau, was the father of Nailatikau Nabuinivuaka, the first (1st) Vunivalu of Bau and Kubuna.Native Lands Commission (NLC), 'Tukutuku ni Yavusa Kubuna', Ratu Isoa Natuituba, 1918  Genealogy on the Origin of the 1st Vunivalu from Nakorotubu, Ra presented on page 31 by the late Ratu Joni Madraiwiwi, Roko Tui Bau & 2006-2009 Vice President of Fiji in 'The Life and Times of Cakobau: The Bauan State to 1855'- A thesis submitted for the degree of Doctor of Philosophy in the University of Otago, New Zealand By Hurray P. Heasley, B.A. (Hons.), Otago. August, 2010.  
Vueti was given a sacred stone by the chiefs of Fiji at Nakauvadra because he had defeated the Tui Viti's twin sons at Nakauvadra. When he reached the outer island, he named the island as Bau and ordered for a sacred temple to be built and buried the sacred stone (tawake kei Viti) at the foundation mound and named the temple as Vatanitawake translated as 'the shelter or shelve of the signifying authority award/flag of Fiji'. Tui Viti signifying authority award or flag (tawake) is mentioned on pg 103.  https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f5/Archeological_Investigation_of_Vatanitawake_-A_Ceremonial_Mound_on_the_Island_of_Bau%2C_Fiji_Islands..pdf 
The monarchy of Fiji was taken over in the mid-nineteenth century when native ruler Seru Epenisa Cakobau burned the Vatanitawake Tui Viti signifying authority award or flag (tawake) is mentioned on pg 103.  https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f5/Archeological_Investigation_of_Vatanitawake_-A_Ceremonial_Mound_on_the_Island_of_Bau%2C_Fiji_Islands..pdf , eliminated Roko Tui Bau's Vusaratu clan in Bau and consolidated control of the Fijian Islands and declared himself King or paramount chief of Fiji (). In 1874, he voluntarily ceded sovereignty of the islands to Britain, which made Fiji a Crown colony within the British Empire. After nearly a century of British rule, Fiji became a Dominion, an independent sovereign state within the Commonwealth of Nations with Elizabeth II as head of state. After a second military coup in 1987, Fiji became a republic, and the monarchy was ended. Nevertheless, the Great Council of Chiefs recognised Elizabeth II as Tui Viti or the traditional Queen of Fiji, but the position is not one of a constitutional, or otherwise legal nature. The Great Council of Chiefs was disestablished in 2012 by decree. Elizabeth II does not use the title, and the Fijian government does not recognise it.
Saqiwa (talk) 06:33, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia doesn't publish original research or give undue prominence to one view over another. This has been explained to you already. DrKay (talk) 16:05, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''Monarchy of Fiji- Tui Viti Authority'' With Roko Tui Bau at Vatanitawake, Bau Island.

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: closed.  DrKay (talk) 22:12, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Monarchy of Fiji →  – The article covers over a century of monarchism in Fiji, including the indigenous monarchy, the colonial monarchy, the independent monarchy when Fiji was a Dominion and the post-republican traditional monarchy. It is also the common name. Sources:
*"[Bavadra] contends for the restoration of the monarchy in Fiji" (also available at [)
*"Constitutional monarchy in Fiji was detached from institutional democracy"
*"A small group of settlers at Levuka had proclaimed a constitutional monarchy in Fiji on 5 June 1871"
*"monarchy in Fiji"
*"Successive British monarchs continued to serve as the paramount chief of Fiji until 1987 when Fiji became a republic and the monarchy in Fiji was abolished." DrKay (talk) 17:10, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

text: Yes, we know the monarchies existed. There wouldn't be an article on them otherwise. This is a requested move not a deletion discussion. DrKay (talk) 07:55, 29 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: This I know. But, I still oppose the requested move. GoodDay (talk) 19:07, 29 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 27 August 2021 

message: Note: Eventually, I'll be recommending a split of this article, into the separate monarchies. GoodDay (talk) 04:03, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Future split