Talk:Bangladesh/Archive 1

message: Its odd that there have been changes of this kind without due reasons.
the Article is correct as it is now, neutral ;based on facts.Bashing of Political figures is unwarranted and historically inncorrect info has been immensely used now and again.please refrain from voicing your opinions in the articles and pay attention to the topic at hand in the Article;which by the way is an intro to Bagladesh to those who dont know it.Also it seems writers from either side of political rivals in Bangladesh the AL and BNP are character assasinating either Mujib or Ziaur Rahamn.It would be inappropriate not to include each of their pros and cons but it can be done in a more neutral manner try some appropriate
use of words.--Quincy123 05:16, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I completely agree with you Quincy. A first mass deletion was reverted by me at one point. It's a generally accepted good practice to discuss before such mass deletion of facts and figures. My reverts are not politically oriented. The changes were worded with use of excessive non-technical terms that generally created POV's against Bangladesh Liberation War. My personal request to anonymous user, 172.136.66.109, would be kindly discuss before carrying out such mass deletion of data. It would also be considered a general good practice to provide summary of changes. I will request a temporary freeze on this article. Urnonav 05:31, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Recent Text changes

message: I totally agree with you as far as the character assassination goes but the article is still far from neutral even now Although better than before and not historically vague as we have seen previous versions but consider the following: To worsen the situation Mujib in January 1975 introduces BAKSAL, a Mujib loyalist paramilitary, in order to reinforce his dictatorship. BAKSAL replaced the multi-party parliamentary democracy, banned independent newspapers, and demolished civil rights. Thousands of opposition political leaders were killed and abducted by the BAKSAL and most of them abductees never returned.
        this could use some factual evidence and a change of words.If you recommend any.
Also figures of death tolls or massacres or genocide in 1971 are not matched by any reliable source so should do away with that.--Herst1 05:37, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I reverted not to protect any political opinion. Edits are welcome on Wikipedia and without edits and contributions Wikipedia would not exist. While I personally liked some of the material added, I resented the mass-deletion without discussion. My request to users again is to discuss before deleting entire paragraphs of work that don't present clear POV. Apologies for having to delete so much of your work, but please follow Wikipedia recommendations when deleting valuable information such as facts and figures with quoted sources. To all Bangladeshi users, please avoid political bias. Ziaur Rahman and Mujibur Rahman are both heroes from Bangladeshi perspective. No leader in history was perfect, but kindly avoid throwing dirt at one person to prove the other's greatness. It only creates a bad image of Bangladesh and both of those leaders. Your efforts has put a small tag on top of this article that declares Bangladeshi wikipedians' failure. This is the most depressing day for me since I started working on Wikipedia to generally propagate NPOV in all Bangladesh-related article. -- Urnonav 06:04, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Urnonav. Neutrality can be achieved if we stick to facts, and provide references when presenting them. I see the disagreement with the existing material and constant deletion/changes are done by just 1 or 2 contributors. Definitely POV!! I also opt for removing the NPOV tag from the article. --Ragib 06:50, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Agree

message: Time and again Anonymous Contributors forget that this is an encyclopedia. I guess they should look at one at home or buy one before they consider editing here.I dont mean to discourage anyone but yes this particular article has seen some wild changes all too often ,especially in its historical portions.I assume people are not all too happy with the display but regardless of how one feels it has to be neutral besides, this and many other articles based on countries are introductory to the Country,there is absolutely no need to deliberately add into them debateable topics.for example: 1.5 War of independence, if it already has a link Bangladesh Liberation War then I hardly see any reason to make additions or deletions here simply follow the link and simply rid the article of prelude to liberation war and International involvement in war as this article is only as you said introductory to Bangladesh and details can be viewed in the said link.Dont put them here.--Sheikhu 05:56, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I reverted not to protect any political opinion. Edits are welcome on Wikipedia and without edits and contributions Wikipedia would not exist. While I personally liked some of the material added, I resented the mass-deletion without discussion. My request to users again is to discuss before deleting entire paragraphs of work that don't present clear POV. Apologies for having to delete so much of your work, but please follow Wikipedia recommendations when deleting valuable information such as facts and figures with quoted sources. To all Bangladeshi users, please avoid political bias. Ziaur Rahman and Mujibur Rahman are both heroes from Bangladeshi perspective. No leader in history was perfect, but kindly avoid throwing dirt at one person to prove the other's greatness. It only creates a bad image of Bangladesh and both of those leaders. Your efforts has put a small tag on top of this article that declares Bangladeshi wikipedians' failure. This is the most depressing day for me since I started working on Wikipedia to generally propagate NPOV in all Bangladesh-related article. -- Urnonav 06:04, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Urnonav. Neutrality can be achieved if we stick to facts, and provide references when presenting them. I see the disagreement with the existing material and constant deletion/changes are done by just 1 or 2 contributors. Definitely POV!! I also opt for removing the NPOV tag from the article. --Ragib 06:50, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Anonymous Contributors

message: I tried to make some appropriate changes but I guess our anonymous friend has struck back.I see it will be difficult to work with this kind of attitude I leave it to Urnonav to do the appropriate and yes we should write here what changes are to be done before they r done !!--Quincy123 06:12, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Difficult

message: This page has been protected due to the request at Wikipedia:Requests_for_protection#Bangladesh. If you feel this page his been protected in error, please post the reason on the request page. --Jiang 04:23, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page protected 

message: I somehow feel that the History section has become too monolothic  .... too long and unorganized. It would be better if it was broken into smaller section. On a personal note, I can never have the attention or interest to read any section as long as this one, and I believe most people would feel the same. So the history section should be re-subsectioned. What's the opinion of others? --Ragib 02:39, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Some information should be removed since the article on Bangladesh Liberation War covers these already. Others could be moved to the Liberation War article! The section could be chopped down to one paragraph and then the other information removed to relevant articles and expanded. -- Urnonav 06:38, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Format of the History section 

message: Inclusion of all the universities in BD into this section beats the purpose of the article. I think only the notable one's should be included there, not each and every one of them. With all due respect, some of the names included are not even notable in Bangladesh. This is an intro to Bangladesh and not a directory listing. So if the list seems necessary, it should be placed into its own article ... Universities in Bangladesh. Otherwise, the main article would become unncessarily cluttered. --Ragib 23:58, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Only put in ones that have over 20,000 students or are over 30 years old say? It's a little arbitrary but interestingly changing the bar to 15,000 or 20 years wouldn't change a lot. Universities in Bangladesh are either very old and well-known or are new and kindergarten-like! -- Urnonav 11:31, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of Universities section 

message: A controversy has erupted over the choice of map for this article. The two candidates are shown here, along with any others that other Wikipedians may choose to enter. Feel free to make any comments. The lower map may also appear in the corresponding Geography article for this country. Kelisi 02:23, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Second map is of poorer quality because of what Ragib mentions above. I'll opt for first map until we are sure of the maps from the Government's site. I love the map of administrative units they have there although I would want to edit it to make it look less "scanned"! -- Urnonav 04:45, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Map 

message: I think that the links to webportals and directories should be removed. These are not sources of more information but instead Wikipedia is being used to publicise commericial sites. There is no reason why Wikipedia should bear links to sites that do not supplement what we are trying to do - provide objective information on matters. -- Urnonav 23:25, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I completely agree. The list there is huge, and any such listing goes against the idea of an encyclopedia. So that section must be removed. --Ragib 01:48, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Links (webportals) 

message: In the history section, a recent edit was made. I seem to smell a bit of POV in this entire section. I believe the issue with Ziaur Rahman's declaration being on the 27th is based on a shaky argument and I have yet not seen any reference backing this up. True, the declaration wasn't heard by anyone as it was made but it was made on the 26th from the books and records I have seen so far. Also, the section tends to potray the Mukti Bahini as a rather useless group that made these so-called "harassing attacks" and mainly provided intelligence to some invisible Indian Army! (Note that Indian Army didn't join the War until 3 December 1971 while Mukti Bahini was on the scene from pretty much day one!) Since there is a partially complete article on Bangladesh Liberation War, I would suggest reducing the details here to a bare minimum and referring readers to the full article. -- Urnonav 16:38, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: *I think, and from eyewitness accounts I have heard from others in Bangladesh, that the declaration by Ziaur Rahman was made on March 27. When I was in primary/high school in Bangladesh, our textbooks used to state that fact. However, controversy started when Awami League govt came to power and claimed that the on march 26, MA Hannan declared the msg. I found a reference from Pakistani Army PR officer Major Siddique Saliq's book that a faint radio transmission was made after Sheikh Mujibur Rahman was arrested, but that was probably not heard by any. The funnier part started after BNP regained power and this time, the declaration date by Zia was moved to March 26. I asked my parents and others who happened to be in Chittagong, they all agreed that they first heard any declaration of independence from Zia's message, but the date was definitely March 27. There may be an earlier message by MA Hannan, but that was not heard by the majority. Indian transmitters/BBC rebroadcast Zia's message so it definitely IS the declaration of independence. But the date is most likely to be March 27. I don't know what the textbooks of BD say now, but it was March 27 until quite recently. --Ragib 17:43, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: *The declaration deal is very murky to me as well. My parents were on the virtual geographic opposite of Chittagong and so were most other people I know who were there in Bangladesh during the turmoil. They mention various dates but obviously they all heard BBC re-broadcasts. The interesting thing here is that some people mention 27th as the date on which they got the information from BBC. That inspires me to believe that the declaration might have been made very late on 26th or very early on 27th. So, the information currently in use on the Bangladesh Liberation War page might actually be right. However, assuming a declaration on 27th by Major Rahman still leaves us or Wikipedia readers in a bit of darkness about why 26th March became the Independence Day. So, are we assuming that M A Hannan's declaration happened on the 26th and hence the date's importance? In that case, I need some references to rectify the errors in the dates mentioned on various pages. I am very confused on this whole issue. -- Urnonav 00:26, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  History 

message: I propose the whole sports section be moved to "Sports in Bangladesh". According to the Wikipedia:WikiProject Countries, the top page for a country profile should not contain too much in detail about any subsection topic. So, the contents should be moved to Sports in Bangladesh. I am moving it there, let me know if there is a problem with that so we can revert if necessary. Right now, the whole article is too much bloated, and becoming a book rather than an encyclopedia article. --Ragib 06:41, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The (Huge) sports section 

message: I have notice that in the Spanish Wikipedia (taken from Commons) there is a better picture of the Bangladeshi COA. It can be found here: . The problem is that there is already a picture with that name here in wiki-en. Anybody knowns how to change it? Messhermit 16:07, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you can upload new picture over the old one. Pavel Vozenilek 16:09, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  COA 

message: I support the previous concerns expressed abt Buddhist Monasteries in Bangladesh. I think the Buddhist Monastaries we have are from around 700AD, not BC. There is good reason to believe a civilaziation in 700 BC in Bangaldesh (e.g, the recently discovered paved road from 500BC), but existence of Buddisth monastaries is not one of those.
:I think that 700 BC is just a typo and should be changed to 700 CE. --Ragib 17:28, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  700 BC 

message: Several users have added links to websites claimed to be "Web Portals" of particular topics. Since this is an encyclopedia and not a website directory, I propose to clean the article of these commercial websites. The article in my opinion should only point out to Government websites, and or relevant organizations. Thanks. --Ragib 04:34, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Would ShamsMaudood please stop adding links to commercial sites? Further vandalism of the page would be reported to [[Vandalism in progress]. Thanks. --Ragib 04:43, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link spamming 

message: Adding lots of details on Indo-Pakistani war of 1971 here is not correct, please add that to Indo-Pakistani War of 1971 or Bangladesh Liberation War. The History section here should include summaries only, not details of engagement. Thanks. --Ragib 03:53, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  History section 

message: The number of external links is too much. Most other top level country articles do not have so many links. I propose removing them from here. Thanks. --Ragib 09:26, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, I have removed the links to political party sites, as each of them have their own wikipedia article linked in "See also". The external links are already in those individual articles, so no need to put them here. Same goes for universities. --Ragib 09:29, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links 

message: There were too many transliteration, some of them opposite to official Bangladesh Govt Usage. For example, someone transliterated "Zilla" into "Jela", which is completely uncommon usage. Similarly, Upazila is used in Bangladesh, not Upo-Jela. Besides, it makes the article completely unreadable if every word or place name is transliterated. So, I am changing it back to the status-quo. (Also another note: Chittagong may be called Chattagram in Bangla, but Chat-Ga is a completely obsolete usage. That was used about 40-50 years ago, and gone into obsolescence since). --Ragib 01:38, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too much Transliteration 

message: The article Grameen Bank is currently nominated on WP:IDRIVE. Vote for this article if you want to contribute! --Fenice 12:10, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Improvement Drive

message: Let's make this Featured article. Neighbouring South Asian countries' articles already are. So let's get cracking. I've done a few things to the intro. Idleguy 11:17, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  FA drive 

message: The best way to provide pronunciation of a name is to give an [[IPA] (International phonetic Alphabet). Providing a whole paragraph for this is redundant, anyone interested can clearly see the IPA notation at the top of the page. So, please don't add non-standard bloat to the article. Thanks. --Ragib 05:54, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: See India for a precedent. Thanks. --Ragib 05:56, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

text: Now, this is really going to the point of vandalism. Please stop adding your redundant "explanation". See above!! Thanks. --Ragib 06:01, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: , I have already explained that the pronunciation is already in the article. Don't add redundant text. Thanks. --Ragib 06:04, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

text: I'm removing that para in the intro that looks like a spelling teacher rather than an encyclopedic intro. if you want to ensure that ppl get the correct spelling across, then record it instead of losing focus. Idleguy 08:50, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

text: This is exactly what I'm trying to explain to  .... wikipedia is not a Kindergarten spelling book, the IPA notation exactly performs the same functionality, and is extensively used in other Country pages (see India). I don't see why we have to re-invent the wheel!!!! --Ragib 09:31, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

text: , would you please stop the juvenile attitude of repeating everything said to you (like repeating test2 tags to both me and Idleguy). The redundancy of your "pronunciation guide"  is very clear; it is non-standard according to WikiProject countries, and very much immature/un-encyclopedic. The pronunciation is clearly given out in the standard International Phonetic Alphabet form. Please read the header para for India. Articles need to be brief ... devoting a whole paragraph for meaningless, redundant information does not help anything. If you are so inclined to improve the article, please devote the energies to the other section. The article needs a lot of work to gain FA status, and definitely we need to work on that. Thanks. --Ragib 08:09, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Ragib, I suggest we lock this page temporarily until Tarikash stops bothering us with such a trivial issue. Idleguy 08:29, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Since he's under a WP:3RR block now, I'll wait till the onset of any more vandalism. In the mean time, I'll try to clean out some sections (esp. History) which are either too long or full of irrelevant info. Thanks. --Ragib 08:39, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation 

message: "The garment industry now employs almost 40% of the female population." -- this does not ring true. Or does it mean that 40% of the EMPLOYED women are in garments? Even that doesn't sound true to me.
--ppm 19:01, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Economy 

message: Without disturbing the existing ones, have added a map of Bangladesh with Rail and Road links. Suggestions (spelling, region, etc.) welcome. --<FONT style="color:#5A3696">ΜιĿ</FONT>ː<FONT style="color:#008000">talk</FONT> 11:28, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Have updated the map with 1) Legends 2) Burma changed to Myanmar. --<FONT style="color:#5A3696">ΜιĿ</FONT>ː<FONT style="color:#008000">talk</FONT> 11:15, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Map with Rail & Road links 

message: a new map with just the regions is required. no names of small cities etc. maximum the state capitals if required. something on the lines of those that exist in India or Nepal articles. A new reader would find it confusing to make out the regions of Nepal. I'd do it but I'm not into imaging etc. Idleguy 05:11, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Map needed with clear demarcation of region 

message: Being a native Bengali speaker, I find it strange to argue with  on the meaning of Bangladesh. Desh means country. Bhumi means land. Bangladesh is not called Bongo-bhumi. If you need any more information on the translation, let me know, but other than that, please don't add a wrong translation of the country's name. Thanks. --Ragib 02:11, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name 

message: "Dhaka became an important provincial center of Mughal administration as the seat of the Nawab. The Bengali ethnic and linguistic identity probably crystallized during this period" -- Doubtful. The Sultan's if Bengal such as Giyasuddin Ajam Shah played a crucial role, as did the Palas in "crystalizing" the Bengali identity. --ppm 17:39, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nawab