Talk:Sarıkamış

message: Need more references and pictures.--Murat (talk) 06:14, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Needs less fantasy, and less copyrighted pictures. You can't just take images from another website and use them in Wikipedia. Meowy 21:26, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the section about the battle is way too long considering that there is a separate entry for it. Meowy 21:35, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortunately, I've had to remove part of your recent edit. "Alparslan and his armies invaded the Byzantine Castle City of Ani, Kars Castle, Allahü Ekber and Soğanlı Mountains on August,16 1064, thus beginning moslty uniterrupted Turkish presence in the area." Firstly, this is about Sarikamish, not Ani or Kars, so the text is off-topic. Secondly the "uninterupted" part is historically wrong anyway, what about the Shaddadids, and the Zakharids, and the Mongols. Some 200 years worth of interuption there. Meowy 16:59, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

text: My reasons for removing that material are still justified - it was off topic and misleading. I have again removed it for those same reasons. A thing can't be 'mostly uninterupted' - it is either uninterupted or it isn't. Why not add some real information about Sarikamish today such as current population size, industries, etc? Meowy 19:18, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It has nothing to do with Sarikamish because it has nothing to do with the history of Sarikamish. You are mentioning specific things that are to do with the history of Kars and Ani. Sarikamis, as a region or a town, did not exist then. What is your source evidence that Alparslan even went anywhere near what is now Sarikamish, let alone tread on the Soghanli mountains? Meowy 16:34, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

text: The fact is, the area was conquered by Seljuks at some point.  In fact it was Alparslan, whose army was also at Manzikert.  That a piece of interesting and relevant history.  He conquered the area in general, including what is Sarikamis today and Allahuekber Mountains are mentioned specifically.  Of course then came the Ottomans.  Another piece of history of the place that is not superficial.  If we are concerned with a place exactly as it looks today, then why bring up Urartus, and Romans and even Armenians.  They would not recognize Sarikamis today either.--Murat (talk) 23:27, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: What sources do you have that says the territory that corresponds to modern Sarikamish was conquered by the Seljuks? Just because they captured Kars and Ani doesn't mean they ruled Sarikamish, or that there was anything substantial in Sarikamish they would want to control. The Seljuks came and left in what amounts to a blink of the eye in the overall historical timescale. It would not even be correct to assume that the general history of who controled Kars would be the same as that for Sarikamish because nothing seems to be known specifically for Sarikamish until the modern period (uness you can find a credible source that says something otherwise). The existence of so many Armenian monasteries in the hills around Sarikamish could suggest some sort of Armenian "mount Athos" was here and that the region was of some importance during medieval times - yet there are no records that I am aware of that mentions the history of any of them. There are also a large number of small castles in the region, especially NE of Karakurt, but nobody knows anything of their history, why they were built, who controlled them. Obviously Urartian and Armenian archeological sites in and around Sarikamish can be mentioned because they are physical objects and are mentioned in sources. Meowy 15:03, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

text: don't think it is needed to say "neighbors towns of Selim and Kağızman to East, Şenkaya and Horasan to West, Eleşkirt to South, Selim and Şenkaya to North", and it is inaccurate anyway in its present form since what you are talking about here are administrative districts, not towns. Also, where is "Ani river"? Sarikamish lies on a tributary of the Kars river. Meowy 16:42, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe it can be more elgant, but neighboring towns is a good way to define location.  So are the major geographical features and rivers and lakes etc.  By all menas make corrections as required.--Murat (talk) 23:29, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

text: I made some corrections. If you can't say were that "Ani river" is (I don't see it marked on maps), I will remove that part.  Meowy 15:03, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
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