Talk:Renée Vivien

message: I think that the Symbolists would have been surprised to learn that Vivien was a Symbolist.  She is not normally included as part of the movement.
:Poems by Vivien were included in Bernard Delvaille's anthology La Poésie Symboliste.  ()  There may have been a strong element of "wannabee" in Vivien's verse, which is why I wrote that she "took to heart the mannerisms" of the school, and "claimed allegiance" to it.  -- Smerdis of Tlön 04:14, 29 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Symbolist? 

message: As is mentioned in the banner above the article, none of the sources listed at the bottom are paired with information in the article itself. Without in text citations, this could be considered plagiarism. In addition, some of the links in the citations don't work (namely, Renée Vivien ou le drame de l'absolu (in French): http://perso.wanadoo.fr/laureline/renee_vivienl.htm ). The sources also seem mostly questionable - many of the sources are just links to her poems and very few are actually autobiographical, let alone reliable. There are a lot of potentially opinionated or biased statements/wording choices throughout the article that need to have direct references to be valid (or should just be removed). MadelineMMay (talk) 16:17, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Citations

message: I think the article needs to be heavily rewritten. It's incoherent and unrealible. The sources are of a very low-quality, and are more often than not, cyclical in nature. There's a profusion of bizzare, unsubstantiated claims that are littered throughout.  Anactoriaa (talk) 11:00, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that you are correct about the low quality of the sources. I am about to add a number of sources in the next section. Please peruse those to which you have access & feel free to incorporate them into the article for its improvement. Peaceray (talk) 05:02, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quality 

message: As  has noted, there is a dearth of quality citations for this article. I have gathered a number of citations. Some will be available to all, some will be available at certain libraries, & some will limited access. I invite you to all to help in adding these citations to the article as appropriate.
Some citations will be available via the Wikipedia Library. If you are not already a member of the Wikipedia Library & you meet the requirements outlined at About the Wikipedia Library: Who can receive access?, then I urge you to join. Peaceray (talk) 05:03, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Citations for the article

message: it's not just reportedly that she didn't like it, - in her piece  The Colette I Have Known, she says Colette judges Renee in her profile without 'understanding or consideration.' 94.197.168.225 (talk) 19:38, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: she states that the profile shows Colette's dislike of Vivien. Judith Thurman, one of Colette's best biographers, says she didn't really like her, but did feel sympathetic to her because of her mental illness, the cause of much of her behaviour. 94.197.168.225 (talk) 19:39, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Colette did dedicate a piece to Vivien, Printemps de la Riviera, about a lesbian masked ball they attended with the courtesans Liane de Pougy, Carolina Otero and Renee's onetime lover Emilienne d'Alencon. 94.197.168.225 (talk) 19:41, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

text: Barney also felt that Colette's negative view of Vivien's poetry was because she disliked most poetry. Judith Thurman states that Vivien's poems were out-of-fashion even when written (not that this necessarily means they were without merit) 94.197.168.225 (talk) 19:42, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Natalie Barney's view of Vivien's portrayal in The Pure and the Impure 

message: Vivien also dated her 94.197.168.225 (talk) 19:39, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Emilienne d'Alencon 

message: Vivien also had an affair with her - related in A Woman appeared to me. Custance was also Barney's lover 94.197.168.225 (talk) 19:46, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Olive Custance 

message: Helene van Zuylen eventually dumped Renee for Sacha Ricoy, wife of the Brazilian ambassador Luis Ricoy, and daughter of the Russian-Jewish sculptor Mark Anotokovsky. 94.197.168.225 (talk) 19:47, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: see Lot's Wife : Lesbian Paris 94.197.168.225 (talk) 19:48, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sacha Ricoy