Talk:Georgii Karpechenko

message: Just a comment that others may or may not want to heed: Raphanobrassica was an experimental allopolyploid -- I don't think it was intended to be taken as a new species, and such artificial crosses are never or rarely touted as "species" in practice -- if they were, orchid hybridizers would be able to brag about having created 100,000 or so species. Reference 3 appears to be non-scholarly, and the NIH reference does not support the assertion that Raphanobrassica is a new species. A quick skim of Karpechenko's article cited in the references shows that he referred to them in the standard fashion -- as hybrids and not as species. The phrase "synthetic species" seems to originate in this Canadian Plant Science article and I suspect the term was used loosely and wasn't meant to meet any definition that would satisfy a taxonomist as to a literal s p e c i e s. --♦♦♦Vlmastra♦♦♦ (talk) 03:16, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, I've clarified a bit. Allopolyploids are often "new species" that cannot interbreed with their ancestral species, and I can assure you that some of us botanists talk about that all the time. Mayr's Biological Species Concept clearly applies here. Karpechenko did refer to his creation as Raphanobrassica in the German paper cited, which is a popular article. I'm not sure if that is the first time he referred to it by that name. Orchid hybrids are largely diploid-diploid hybrids between different species or genera. The taxonomy of the species and genera is based on natural mechanisms that prevent interbreeding in nature, such as flowering at different times or relying on different pollinators. The progeny (if fertile) are generally just as well able to interbreed with their ancestors as the ancestors were with one another. A ploidy-level jump such as Karpechenko obtained, acts as a barrier to interbreeding (because of the Endosperm Balance Requirement, also known as the Triploid Block Effect). Karpechenko's work is very significant indeed, I recommend The Blackburn Press Classic papers in horticultural science if you have access to that, it includes a preface to the paper. Nadiatalent (talk) 16:09, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
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