Talk:Ivan Kozhedub

message: Ivan Kozhedub is the highest scoring allied ace of WWII. 86.6.11.56 feels very strongly about a certain well-known claim made by Kozhedub in his memoirs, and disputes it based on, basically, general principle. All his stated reasons are original research. There's no published source disputing Kozhedub's claims. See the P-51 section above for history of debate. I was unable to explain to 86.6.11.56 that POV original research does not belong in wikipedia.
Flyboy Will 16:32, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems to me that the article in general is poorly sourced. Even the claim that you both seem to agree on, that he is the highest scoring allied ace of WWII is not sourced. So to begin with, I would at least add the sources that you agree upon. Next, if Kozhedub is as famous and as good as you both seem to think, I just don't know, then there should be independent sources to back up the claims. I wouldn't think the memoir would be anathema except as a stand alone source for otherwise non-verified claims. Autobiographies are notorious for self-aggrandizement. Are there other sources? Please add them. I travel in Russia and I am well aware of the honor given to their service people. Certainly this one deserves a well researched article. JodyB talk 17:13, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  OK good call, I'll just rewrite the whole thing and source it, but I'm just afraid that right after I'm done the whole original research P-51 thing will crawl in there anyway. Flyboy Will 21:27, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, my point is that its hard to complain about someone else' lack of sources when you have the same issue. Frankly, this is a fascinating article and I'm going to enjoy watching it develop. The two of you are very knowledgeable about the man and I'm sure its goign to come together in a fine way. Let me know if I can help you guys. JodyB talk 00:15, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request for Comment 

message: Erich Hartmann, in the Blond Knight of Germany, said that there were at least a couple of instances of them diving through an Allied formation shooting down American P-51's and B-17's, then going through the a layer of Soviet aircraft and shooting some of them down. In the resulting confusion Hartmann's group would break off the attack and he would look back to see US and Soviet aircraft fighting each other, each thinking that the other had attacked them. Hartmann didn't know if Kozhedub was in any of these formations, but his observations lend credibility to Kozhedub's claims. XXVII (talk) 16:45, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It happened in the Czech Republic in April 1945. Very interesting. Perhaps Hartmann was watching the fight between the Yankees and Kozhedub.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.193.164.246 (talk) 14:48, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  Erich Hartmann has never published an article or a book Blond Knight of Germany!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.12.99.211 (talk) 16:07, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  P-51 dogfights plausible 

message: * The Ukraine was occupied by Russia during the war - Typical nonsense! Likewise, according to this logic: Vietnam and Cambodia was occupied by China or Russia! Because it was the period of the Communist government in Cambodia and Vietnam, thus Cambodian Khmer Rouge - is Russian or Chinese?! Is this true? However, Сommunism - this is not a synonym for Russia! Because Ukraine had its ukrainian communists (As well as Cambodia and Vietnam). Because, in the period of the USSR: Russia has a наме RSFSR (the Russian Federation), while Ukraine has a name: The Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic! The the village of Obrazhiyivka, a settlement in the Sumy region - this is The Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic! (Obrazhiyivka - is not the the Russian Federation)--92.112.240.179 (talk) 14:56, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Early life 

message: Hey. I don't mind original research as long as it makes sense and cites where that information was found. (Against or not against the rules, that's up to you people who make the rules to decide). But one thing that absolutely doesn't make sense in this story are the droptanks and since it is held up as the main argument then the whole story faulters. So here's my question: If the drop tanks were normally removed but we see here that some aircraft is attacking the P-51, then what does it matter? How is it an argument that it can't e a Soviet Aircraft attacking the P-51s because they have droptanks but it is not an argument that it can't be a german (or any other) aircraft attacking them? Clearly an aircraft is attacking them and clearly at least one has droptanks. It's a moot point. 79.136.64.95 (talk) 05:50, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed about the Zeiss camera; if true it would be suspect, though inconclusive: the Soviets could have been using captured German equipment. However, the worst part of the supposed "controversy" is that it cites absolutely no sources. There is a Russian language reference (presumably) for Kozhedub shooting down the P-51s; there is absolutely no reference for the "controversy". This tag was added in 2007; it's been more than 11 years since. I suggest we either find a reference stating this is an actual controversy, or entirely remove the paragraph doubting this achievement (or the whole section, if the Russian reference is deemed unreliable). The andf (talk) 22:15, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Need advice on removing part of the P-51 controversy 

message: Soviet Union (USSR) was created in 1922 two years after Ivan Kozhedub birth.
Please check maps, years and .
--Viggen (talk) 16:56, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Russia/Soviet Union(USSR)/Ukraine 

message: Sorry to say this, but this article needs a lot of improvement. For starters, Polak's book is questionable to say the least, considering the number of confirmed factual errors in other biographies in the book. Also, while the exact number of kills by Kozhedub is disputed, estimates range from 60-64 solo and 0-4 shared - something the article should note.--PlanespotterA320 (talk) 22:36, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Needs a lot of improvement 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
* 
Participate in the deletion discussion at the . —Community Tech bot (talk) 03:52, 3 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion 

message: Both of you. Stop edit-waring this page. Neither of you are seeing the bigger picture - that this article (relatively) almost a stub compared to some other language Wikipedia versions.--PlanespotterA320 (talk) 15:09, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Knock it off