Talk:Akhisar

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The addition of various quotes based on primary accounts in order to over-emphasize a specific POV should be performed with heavy caution. Also if the events occurred outside of this settlement then that's yet another argument for removal. Alexikoua (talk) 14:15, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: please give up to read about something related to turkiye. i encounter you in anywhere anything related to turks. HaciMusto (talk) 20:42, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: You need to follow wp:words to avoid. Words like invasion or invaded about settlements should be avoided. On the other hand you changed the verb 'occupied' in the context of the occupation of the Turkish nationalist movement to 'retook'. In military terms this was occupation. Neutrally speaking the Greek army wasn't the only side that occupied the town during this war and that's sourced. Alexikoua (talk) 14:11, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

text: Which of those villages belong to Akhisar district " Bekirs, Dereköy, Beyoba, Yatağan, Gökçeahmet, Kömürcü, Muşlar and Sarılar."? It appears that at least some of them are located in Eski Sehir and I wonder why events about such distant settlements are related to Akhisar.Alexikoua (talk) 14:21, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, so as of this revision, there are multiple subpar sources in this article. This is a master's thesis and so inadmissible for controversial claims such as these. Archaeological Commentary on the Bible is clearly an inadequate source for such claims as well. This self-published source by a random physicist who self-professes to be proficient in Islamic law also has no place here (and this was the source for the killing of 7,000 Greeks all along, so the previous version wasn't very ideal after all). Primary sources (e.g. BOA. DH. KMS. 52-3/24) should also not be referenced directly. I'll try to clean this up if time allows. --GGT (talk) 16:02, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Having had a deeper look, a decent chunk of these claimed atrocities for both sides need to be removed unless there are stronger sources. I'm absolutely unable to confirm the claim of 7,000 Greeks being massacred in Akhisar and given that the population at the turn of the century was 12,000 according to the Encyclopaedia of Islam, I find this claim very unlikely and will proceed to remove it. Likewise many of the villages named seem to be irrelevant. Some of the Turkish-language sourcing is acceptable in the absence of anything better but the main source would probably be the atrocities in various villages reported by Toynbee and related on pp. 75-76 of Salt's The Unmaking of the Middle East. GGT (talk) 16:49, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I definitely agree about the low quality of those sources: primary material should avoided, master's thesis' aren't the best we can have per wp:HISTRS and contemporary comments by (non) observers should also been removed.Alexikoua (talk) 21:14, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: About the use of material by supposed observers, we should strictly follow wp:secondary. A recent Harvard University publication concluded that:[]
As such we should use such comteporary accounts with heavy precaution.Alexikoua (talk) 21:20, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Quote farming and POV additions

message: (unindent) The source used here  is published by a rather dubious publisher "Berikan" , and should not be used for the purpose it is being use din the article. Khirurg (talk) 19:21, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: The publisher is affiliated with the ultranationalist MHP. Out of the question. Khirurg (talk) 20:52, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

text: We are not going to write an encyclopedia based on MHP-affiliated sources, such as the one you are promoting. You should also learn to indent your comments per WP:INDENT, and assume good faith per WP:AGF. Khirurg (talk) 23:56, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  History section 

message: First of all, happy new year!
 
Secondly, your recent additions are clearly an example of improper editorial synthesis. Please take some time to read and understand WP:SYNTHESIS and MOS:EDITORIAL. Aside of that, mentions such as that of a village in Burhaniye are WP:OFFTOPIC. Furthermore, i don't see any contradictions in the claim of Karathanasis. Specifically:
*According to the statistics of the Greek census of 1921, which you added, there were 7,638 Greeks in Akhisar that year. I am not aware of the exact month, but regardless, Karathanasis' figure of 10,000 Greeks pertains to the period between 27 August and 30 September 1922; about a year later. There is no contradiction here, nor anything strange. Even though i am not certain, i would imagine that this difference was due to the fact that many Greeks fled westwards with the retreating Greek Army, and thus the Aidin Vilayet, which includes Akhisar and Smyrna, would be full of such refugees. For example, in the book The Ottoman Endgame: War, Revolution, and the Making of the Modern Middle East, 1908 - 1923 (2015) by Sean McMeekin, we read:
:
:In 1917–1918, prior of the 1921 census, there were even less; between 5,782 and 5,877 Greeks. So you see, there was a gradual increase until 1922.
*You also claimed that there is no Kırtık dere in the municipality of Akhisar, and that the only (at least regional) Kırtık dere is located two kilometres to the east of the town of Manisa. Your approach is wrong and anachronistic. First of all, why does Kırtık dere have to be in the municipality of Akhisar for Karathanasis' claim to be valid? Karathanasis makes no mention of a municipality. For the sake of an argument, let's say there is indeed no other Kırtık dere in the broader region; the town of Akhisar would still be very close, some kilometres northeast of that location. After all, Manisa, Kırtık dere, and Akhisar are all within the Manisa Province. Furthermore, back in 1922, the three aforementioned locations were all part of the Sanjak of Saruhan; a subdivision of the Aidin Vilayet.
*Diamantopoulos' account is also not contradictory. He simply describes a single event from the 13th of September 1922, which isn't even related to civilians, but 250 Greek soldiers. As aforementioned, Karathanasis gives a figure for the total number of Greeks who died during a period of about 35 days. Demetrios1993 (talk) 12:49, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: About the location of Kirtik Dere: even if it was located far away from Akhisar there is no way to question the validity of the incident: During death marches the civilian population was forced to move huge distances on foot before they were massacred. So the point here is that the murdered population were natives of Akhisar. As such I believe there is no big deal to go into detail where exactly this location is found.Alexikoua (talk) 05:11, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Supposed contradictions and original research through editorializing