Talk:Claret Jug

message: Does the year's winner actually get to keep the original, 1928 trophy for sometime, only returning it — and collecting a replica — when the next year's tournament approaches?  That's what we are getting from the article as it stands right now.  It would be more logical that the champion would only get to hold the original trophy at the award ceremony, but then take home only a replica (as it is done with the trophies presented in the Grand Slam of tennis).  I suppose that allowing a player to keep the original trophy for months would pose, at the very least, a liability for the tournament's organization, and for the preservation of its history.  Regards, Redux 16:58, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know, but the article about one of the early U.S. Champion's states that he had to pay a deposit before he was allowed to take the trophy away because he was a heavy drinker and the USGA was worried he might sell it to buy drink, which suggests that traditions may be different in golf. ReeseM 00:24, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion

message: An article with the title "claret jug" should describe the class of object known as claret jugs, not a specific one awarded as a trophy. The description of the golf trophy should be one or two paragraphs in a broader article.  Although I don't have time to create a proper encyclopedic artilce, I am a long time collector of antique claret jugs with more than passing knowledge, and have quickly jotted down a surface level description of claret jugs, along with pointers to several sites that describe them. 
This article as written, represents a subset of the subject "claret jugs" as the Silver Claret Jug, awarded as a trophy for The Open which is only one example of a class of object known as claret jugs. Claret Jugs began being produced in England around the 1700s as the middle class developed and it became important to display your taste and wealth.  They were originally ordinary glass bottles adapted to decant and present wine on a table setting elegantly. The glass vessels became fancier over time, quickly evolving to be primarily fine crystal flasks, and were adorned with silver mounts. The evolution of the jug to a fancy decorative table item was quite swift and led by silvermakers, who would buy fine crystal and then design and apply the mounts to create an overall look.  A claret jug such as The Open's Silver Claret Jug is purely ornamental, as it was never intended to have claret (or anything drinkable) in it.  There are other examples of silver claret jugs from the 1700s, but they were rarely made of metal after that, as it would have tainted the wine.
The production of claret jugs spread to all of Europe, and eventually to the US as well (although they were never commonly used in the US), and attracted the finest names in silver, including Faberge, Tiffany, Daum, Galle and Bateman.
Perhaps the finest collection today, public or private, is the Kent Collection and The claret jug collection of www.karaffensammler.at.
=== Claret and Claret Jugs -- Derivation ===
Claret is the English word for the French clairet. Claret (the English term) was the name given to the bordeaux wine that was most favored and commonly drunk in England for about 300-400 years starting sometme around 1300-1400. Claret is a dark rosé wine that has largely disappeared from production, but was by far the most common wine type made in Bordeaux for most of the middle ages. It was paler than the deep red wines that Bordeaux is known for today, and it was the paleness of the drink that gave it its English name.  The French word clairet literally means pale.
The term claret (in English) has evolved to mean any red wine (but especially those from Bordeaux), and also refers to a Burgundyish color of red. The term "Claret Jug" was thus used to describe a table decanter intended for red wine.
=== Range of styles and production values ===
Although today the term claret jug typically refers to fine antiques of crystal and silver, in the mid nineteenth century, claret jugs were considered an essential piece for every middle class table, and so the quality varies quite a lot, from very simple glass and silver plate mounts, through etched and cut crystal with elaborate sterling mounts. Occasionally pewter, and sometimes gold or gold plate was also used as the metal.
=== Forms ===
Claret jugs vary in form considerably, from a simple evolution of a bottle with applied silver to elegant flasks to figures. In the late 1800s it became very popular to create claret jugs in the form of animals, particularly birds.  Parrots, eagles, ducks, pheasants, fish, owls, and penguins were among the most common and popular. Around the same time, it because popular to use colored glass for the vessel, the most common being cranberry glass.
=== Today ===
Claret jugs today are largely collector's items and are rarely made as new, as modern buyers prefer sleeker lines of all glass decanters for their wine.
Because claret jugs have largely fallen into disuse today, The Silver Claret Jug, The Open's trophy, has therefore become the best known example of a claret jug, although most people have no idea what claret is, or why the trophy is called a claret jug.
=== pages about claret jugs: ===
* The Kent Collection (http://www.claretjugs.com/)
* Crystal Glass Decanter Types (http://www.crystalacarte.com/crystal-decanter.asp)
* Percy's Silver (specializes in sale of fine antique claret jugs) (http://www.claretjugs.co.uk/metadot/index.pl)
* Most expensive claret jug ever sold (http://www.metro.co.uk/news/84659-a-cracking-lot-for-a-jug)
* History and Origin of Claret Jugs (http://www.ascasonline.org/articoloOTTOB102.html)
* History of Wine Decanters and Claret Jugs (http://antiques-art-collectibles.com/collectible/claret_jug_wine_decanter.htm)
* poorly written wikipedia article, mistitled (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_claret_jug)
* the Karaffensammler Claret Jug Collection (http://www.karaffensammler.at/gallery/main.php)
98.192.53.16 (talk) 15:10, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Please note that this article is titled Claret Jug (golf trophy). As such it should solely contain information pertaining to the trophy presented to the winner of the Open, not claret jugs in general. There is a separate article about silver claret jugs. You may wish to go there. wjematherbigissue 15:18, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

text: I see now and have redirected claret jug to the disambiguation page. Hope that helps. However there is as yet no article. You may wish to request on at WP:Requested articles. wjematherbigissue 15:40, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: While you are correct in that there are objects known as claret jugs, there is a precedent on Wikipedia to direct to the page that most people would be looking for, even if that is not the "original" meaning.  For example, the term "Burn Notice" redirects to the TV series and not the document for which the tv series is named after, and "The Big Bang Theory" redirects to the tv series instead of "Big Bang" - again what it is named after or the "original."  The idea is to direct people to what they are most likely looking for, and having a disambiguation note as needed.  It's also very confusing to have "Claret Jug" redirect to a different page than "Claret jug" and so I changed that to be consistent.Starwrath (talk) 07:36, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

text: I would support a move of this article to "Golf Champion Trophy", but I still think the term "Claret Jug" (and all related capitalizations) should redirect here with the disambiguation note on top because of my above argument regarding precedent. Starwrath (talk) 17:20, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: FYI, my above comment was made before User:JHunterJ moved the page. Per WP:UCN and WP:PRIME, Claret Jug is the correct title for this article. wjematherbigissue 17:33, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, you're correct according to WP:PRIME. I do not support any move. Starwrath (talk) 00:38, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  As "The Open" is to golf, so is "The Silver Claret Jug" to claret jugs 

message: * The Kent Collection (http://www.claretjugs.com/)
* Crystal Glass Decanter Types (http://www.crystalacarte.com/crystal-decanter.asp)
* Percy's Silver (specializes in sale of fine antique claret jugs) (http://www.claretjugs.co.uk/metadot/index.pl)
* Most expensive claret jug ever sold (http://www.metro.co.uk/news/84659-a-cracking-lot-for-a-jug)
* History and Origin of Claret Jugs (http://www.ascasonline.org/articoloOTTOB102.html)
* History of Wine Decanters and Claret Jugs (http://antiques-art-collectibles.com/collectible/claret_jug_wine_decanter.htm)
* poorly written wikipedia article, mistitled (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_claret_jug)
* the Karaffensammler Claret Jug Collection (http://www.karaffensammler.at/gallery/main.php)
98.192.53.16 (talk) 15:10, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Please note that this article is titled Claret Jug (golf trophy). As such it should solely contain information pertaining to the trophy presented to the winner of the Open, not claret jugs in general. There is a separate article about silver claret jugs. You may wish to go there. wjematherbigissue 15:18, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

text: I see now and have redirected claret jug to the disambiguation page. Hope that helps. However there is as yet no article. You may wish to request on at WP:Requested articles. wjematherbigissue 15:40, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: While you are correct in that there are objects known as claret jugs, there is a precedent on Wikipedia to direct to the page that most people would be looking for, even if that is not the "original" meaning.  For example, the term "Burn Notice" redirects to the TV series and not the document for which the tv series is named after, and "The Big Bang Theory" redirects to the tv series instead of "Big Bang" - again what it is named after or the "original."  The idea is to direct people to what they are most likely looking for, and having a disambiguation note as needed.  It's also very confusing to have "Claret Jug" redirect to a different page than "Claret jug" and so I changed that to be consistent.Starwrath (talk) 07:36, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

text: I would support a move of this article to "Golf Champion Trophy", but I still think the term "Claret Jug" (and all related capitalizations) should redirect here with the disambiguation note on top because of my above argument regarding precedent. Starwrath (talk) 17:20, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: FYI, my above comment was made before User:JHunterJ moved the page. Per WP:UCN and WP:PRIME, Claret Jug is the correct title for this article. wjematherbigissue 17:33, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, you're correct according to WP:PRIME. I do not support any move. Starwrath (talk) 00:38, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  pages about claret jugs: 

message: https://improveverywhere.com/2012/07/16/the-mini-golf-open/ 97.84.170.172 (talk) 10:11, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should mention the use of the Jug when Improve Everywhere used it.