Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Education in Canada/Archive1

message: I'm gonna really need help with this project, folks, so any would be appreciated. -- Spinboy 19:37, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I am certainly open to it being reworded, what do you have in mind? -- Spinboy No ads on Wikipedia. 16:31, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I went ahead and changed :Template:WPEIC-cat to be somewhat softer, take a look.  Although, I'm not sure if the wording is good enough.  I don't understand the the reason for adding the template, at this stage, especially with a red-link for "proposals".  I've gone ahead in the past, and made sub-categories within these "maintained/related" categories, and will do so again without "checking in", since there's nothing here (yet) to check with.  Also, one needn't make a "proposal" if doing something obvious like :Category:Elementary schools in Province/Territory given there are only five sub-cats of :Category:Elementary schools in Canada currently.  Making such sub-cats when the article member of each one is created (no sooner or later), would be the best approach.  Suggesting some standardized rules for categories is probably a good idea, but where obvious patterns exist, this project should just document what they are, and welcome people to go ahead and make them.  --rob 19:35, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

message: I think it might be good to discuss the idea we should discourage making new city level categories for schools, or if made, they should be additional, not replacement categories (two cats for same school).  I see a problem, since the city placement is not obvious.  Categories, even large ones, can easily be searched alphabetically, and large size isn't a problem, except maybe in an extreme case like Toronto and Ontario maybe. 
As an example, I would want to discourage somebody from ever making "Category:Schools in Calgary" (even if there were ever lots of articles there).  The main Calgary boards Calgary Board of Education and Calgary Catholic School District have different boundries, despite their names.  A public school in Chestermere, Alberta is outside Calgary Board of Education, but a Catholic school is within Calgary Catholic School District.   People almost always know the province, and type of school (elem/middle/high), but often don't know what city it would be classified under.  Also, it's not clear if one is referring to the city-proper or the metro-area.  I'm only talking about new sub-cats, and have no desire to touch existing ones.
Thoughts?  --rob 22:57, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  City level categories versus province level 

message: The project page link redirects to Wikipedia:WikiProject Airlines - that's kind of screwy....I'm assuming that Airlines is supposed to be changed to the appropriate school name (?), but that doesn't appear to be the case at at least one university page I visited (University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada).  Could someone offer some clarification?DonaNobisPacem 23:40, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I made this fix.  Let me know if there's still any error.  Thanks.  --Rob 00:20, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Marvelous!  Might be interested in joining the project, but all bets are off 'till after Christmas - speaking of which, have a good one!DonaNobisPacem 22:44, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  CanEd  template 

message: I propose :Category:French schools in Ottawa become :Category:French language schools in Ottawa, like :Category:French language schools in Ontario and :Category:French language schools in Alberta.  I think it's clearer, and a better standard that can be extended globally (where "nation" vs "language" is an issue).  As a comparison, a Canadian owned Francophone company operating in Ottawa wouldn't go in :Category:French companies in Ottawa, but would go in :Category:French language companies in Ottawa.  I would have used the word "Francophone" but I didn't only because not everybody is familiar with it.  But, if people decide the word "language" is redundant, than I suggest renaming the other categories to remove it.    --Rob 14:37, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: ps. Somebody knowing more than I might know if there's even enough French language schools in Ottawa to warrant a separate sub-category.  Burying articles in these subcats may give them less attention. --Rob 14:38, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

text: List of schools in Ottawa Battlefield 15:25, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: A better option would be to shorten the other categories ex. :Category:French schools in Alberta the "language" portion is not needed Battlefield 16:10, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: A reason I like the the word "language" in there, are cases of a nation's schools in another nation.  There are "American schools in Japan" which are on Army bases.  There are can be "French schools in CountryX" in the both the national and linguistic sense of the words (e.g. a school for French embassy staff in a foreign country).  Specifying "language" makes clear how you're using the word.  Also, sometimes within Canada, the word "French" means community, not just language.  In Alberta or Ontario, when I hear the term "French school", I think of a school actually run by the French community (e.g. a Francophone school board).  I don't think of a French immersion school run by the English school board.  But, it's not a huge deal, so how's this as a compromise:  If you agree to change every article/sub-cat that's under :Category:French language schools in Canada outside Quebec to drop the word "language" and WP:CFD the orphan cats, I'll accept it.  --Rob 01:22, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  French language categories 

message: I created a userbox for the various Faculty pages at McGill University . I'm not sure if they'll apply/be useful for the other university's pages. I will also be creating an info box for the university level page (as opposed to faculty level, as this one is) in the next week or so. Not sure if this is of any use to anyone.... You can see it in action at McGill University Faculty of Arts. pm_shef 07:43, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So how do I go about making this template "official"? pm_shef 18:01, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  My opinion would be to make this generic, so it can be applied to any college/university.  There isn't anything in your table which is strictly Canadian, so the first thing I'd do is look through all of the existing infobox templates.  More than likely, you'll find a template that someone has already written which may look similar to the table you have.  Otherwise, if you want exactly the look and colours that you've created, I think it needs to be turned into a proper generic template.  Re-implenting the size/alignment/colour scheme you have into every article defeats a large part of the infobox role -- a single location which groups together all of the text in related articles. --Stephane Charette 21:17, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Info Box Templates

message: For anyone like myself just joining the Education_in_Canada project, I've gone through and had a peek at many (all?) of the existing infoboxes related to schools:
*Template:Infobox Education in Canada -> Loyola High School (Montreal), Terry Fox Secondary School
*Template:Infobox OtherEducation (US?) -> not used anywhere
*Template:Infobox English Public School (England)
*Template:Infobox Aust school (Australian)
*Template:Infobox Aust school private (Australian)
*Template:Infobox Can school (Canadian, but very bland, simplistic) -> not used anywhere
*Template:Infobox Canadian School (Canadian, bland, has many optional fields) -> 8 schools, for example Victoria High School
*Template:Infobox HighSchool (simplistic, perhaps US-based) -> 6 schools, for example Lake Brantley High School
*Template:Infobox NZ school (NZ)
*Template:Infobox Private School (generic) -> too many to list, such as Phillips Academy
*Template:Infobox Public School (very simple, generic) -> 1 school, Galatasaray Lisesi
*Template:Infobox School (very simple, generic) -> too many to list, including Walnut Grove Secondary School in BC
*Template:Infobox School2 (very simple, generic) -> too many to list, including Eagan High School
*Template:Infobox School3 (very simple, generic) -> 1 school, Daewon Foreign Language High School
*Template:Infobox School4 (very simple, generic) -> 1 school, Hermann-Böse-Gymnasium
*Template:Infobox School II (has a background colour) -> 7 schools, including Westview High School (San Diego)
*Template:Infobox Secondary school (many optional fields) -> too many to list, including Bishop Carroll High School (Alberta)
*Template:Infobox UK schools (UK)
The "WikiProject Education in Canada" page specifically mentions and gives an example for Template:Infobox_Education_in_Canada.  While I really like how it looks, the example given (Featherston Drive Public School) seems to indicate it is very difficult to use, having to embed colour, spacing, and alignment information into each article.
Considering how I'm about to embark on adding several dozen new schools, I was reluctant to use that infobox.  But doing a search, I've found another 2 examples that attempt to use that infobox, and seems to indicate it is simpler to use than indicated by Featherston Drive Public School.  The tricky bit that has me worried is, those 2 other examples are not working correctly:
#Loyola High School (Montreal)
#Terry Fox Secondary School
Thus, I would like to solicit advice and/or opinions from those of you familiar with templates and infoboxes on how to approach this topic. --Stephane Charette 21:14, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've updated Template:Infobox_Education_in_Canada to turn it into a full-fledge template with *many* optional fields.  This should make like easier for everyone.  I've also update the 2 perviously broken school pages that were attempting to use this template:  Loyola and Terry Fox. --Stephane Charette 14:00, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  For anyone else wanting to use an infobox to create a new school article or upgrade an existing one, there are now more than a dozen examples of the template Infobox_Education_in_Canada. --Stephane Charette 09:37, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Done.  I'm also adding the schools that use this older template to the section below listing the school articles that need to be updated.  --Stephane Charette 00:31, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Yet more information and questions on infoboxes for Canadian schools

message: *Before we convert any of the following, I would like to improve the Template:Infobox Education in Canada to add some of the optional fields and features in Template:Infobox Canadian School. — Usgnus 05:35, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Schools that use the deprecated [[Template:Infobox Canadian School]]

message: * I converted this to Template:Infobox Education in Canada. Do a diff, and you'll see how few changes were needed. — Usgnus 23:17, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[West Vancouver Secondary School]]

message: * done. I might need to change the template to move communities and feeder schools lower in the box. Actually, if anyone wants to change the order of the fields, let me know. --Usgnus 16:43, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Sir Winston Churchill High School]]

message: * done --Usgnus 16:43, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Western Canada High School]]

message: * NPOV issues --Stephane Charette 18:05, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Meadowvale Secondary School]]

message: * NPOV issues (academics versus athletes?) --Stephane Charette 23:09, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed by anonymous IP.  --Stephane Charette 00:49, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Terry Fox Secondary School]]

message: * still uses the old infobox template format (and is listed in Template talk:Infobox Education in Canada as the school to use as an example for future school articles) --Stephane Charette 23:22, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Featherston Drive Public School]]

message: * Which is not to be confused with User:College of Toronto, nor User talk:College of Toronto.  I predict problems in cleaning up this mess...!  :)  --Stephane Charette 00:02, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[College of Toronto]]

message: *The article for the G10 Group of Prestigious Canadian Universities is up for Deletion, please go and support Education related articles in Canada!!! pm_shef 03:55, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Important AfD! 

message: Since the  template is used only for schools and not other educational institutions, should we merge it into , in effect renaming it. Then its name will be more consistent with the other school templates (see above). -- Usgnus 16:09, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox again 

message: Can i join in this project? i've added Westdale Secondary School and cleaned up Hamilton-Wentworth District School Board so far...i'm not new to wikipedia but AM new to the talk/discussion page...      zeChinaman 16:45, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi.  Yes, you and everyone are welcome to join.  All WikiProjects are open to anybody, and they're pretty informal, so there's not actually a huge difference between people who list themselves as members, and other people who happen to be active in the related articles.  BTW, on talk pages, its best to click the "+" button up top, and your message goes at the bottom of the talk page (no big deal). --Rob 01:01, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Go ahead and propose -- this is the right forum to discuss it.  --Stephane Charette 19:28, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Joining

message: I re-wrote a large part of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Education in Canada page.  For the past few months, we've been using the discussion page to communicate and the main project page has been more-or-less ignored.  I think it is time the page was updated to reflect some of the new ways we're currently looking at the school and school board articles.
Please have a look at it here:  Wikipedia:WikiProject Education in Canada/Revised.
I don't expect it to be perfect right off the bat.  But what I'd like to do, if enough people are OK with it as a starting point, is to archive the current existing Education in Canada page, and then replace it with the revised version.  At the same time, I'd also archive the discussion page and start a new one.  Nothing gets deleted during the archive -- we'd still have access to any old discussion should we need to look something up.
Let me know what you think.  --Stephane Charette 06:42, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposal

message: :I like what Wikipedia:WikiProject Education in Canada/Revised#Categories says.  The one part that I'm not clear on is the concept of "owning" a task.  What's that mean?  For instance "AB schools" is listed, but I can't see how one person can "own" that task.  --Rob 08:04, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You are correct, an entire province is large to have as a task.  However, at the moment we only have coverage for 3 provinces and 0 territories according to the users I know about.  So the tasks simply highlight some glaring holes.  I could have broken them down to specific school boards for example, but I thought it was unecessary to do so since no-one is even available on a province-wide scale.  If someone wants to step up and take a chunk of Alberta, then we'd modify the task to indicate which part(s) are still left. --Stephane Charette 08:20, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Categories and tasks

message: I don't think we need to de-emphasize the universities and colleges. -- Usgnus 18:21, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In regards to 'de-emphasize the univesities and colleges', I'm not sure what else to do.  We don't have any suggestions as to how to format university articles, or templates to use, or how to break it down into manageable articles, etc...  Note that there is a university and college project, which does deal with all of this stuff.  This is why I wanted to distance ourselfs somewhat from C & U. --Stephane Charette 22:44, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Should have added the link to it:  Wikipedia:WikiProject Universities, where the title states:  WikiProject Universities is aims to standardize coverage of Universities and colleges. --Stephane Charette 22:56, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think Canadian Universities and Colleges fall under this project. It is Education. Ardenn 18:43, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, it is education; however, what should we do about it?  We could add a "college" and "university" (or "college & university"?) section to the new project, but what will we put in it?  None of the templates apply to C&U except for , and this is already documented in the new proposal.  None of the categories we have are for colleges or universities.  The only list we have for C&U is called List of colleges in Ontario, and that is also already documented in the new proposal.  This is why I was suggesting that Wikipedia:WikiProject Universities may be a better place to discuss C&U.  --Stephane Charette 19:24, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Colleges and universities

message: The statement "all schools should have a navigation bar linking together schools from the same school district" is good advice only for smaller school districts.  This would become unweildy and unmaintable for larger districts.  For example the 200 schools at the Calgary Board of Education was to big (in my opinion) to have in the main article, let alone, to show at the bottom of every school for navigation.  Also, I disagree that such navigation is useful.  Two schools in the same district may be a great distance from each other, but a city may have many cases of adjacent schools from the different districts (e.g. separate/public).  --Rob 18:34, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmmm.  Didn't know we had such large school districts!  Ok, how about we reword it to indicate a preference for the navboxes when applicable, and then can list exception cases where that doesn't work and possible solutions.  --Stephane Charette 22:44, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  That sounds fine.  BTW, TDSB has 558, so the CBE is not that big.  --Rob 23:19, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Navboxes

message: How do we decide if and when we go ahead with this new proposal?  (BTW, thanks to everyone who has commented so far!)  Are there objections to having this proposal be the new project page?  If so, please raise a new subsection here so it can be discussed, and hopefully addressed.  If there are no big objections, when would people be OK with me archiving the current project page and the talk page?  --Stephane Charette 02:23, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Anytime is fine with me. -- Usgnus 19:11, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Time to make the shift?

message: on a completely different tangent...any1 know the copyright laws/procedures for uploading pictures belonging to the school but approved by a teacher/the administration for encyclepedic purposes? because i could prob get some pics of my school off the media arts teacher....thx for answering 
zeChinaman 21:18, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wouldn't it be easier to simply take a new picture of the school with a digital camera that you or a friend owns?  Versus trying to find the forms and seek approval for a picture that someone else has taken?  If you insist it has to be their picture you want, then see WP:BRP.  --Stephane Charette 21:38, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Copyright and images

message: *Has there been a discussion in the past about the inclusion of clubs and extracurricular activities on High School and Elementary School pages? For example, are just general lists of all the clubs and teams at a school permissible? It seems a bit unwieldy and unnecessary... - pm_shef 00:26, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *I wouldn't bother putting a list of clubs or sport teams into stub articles.  It look forced.  For articles that are well fleshed-out, adding list of clubs and teams can easily be made to look nice, and relatively easy to fit into the flow of any article.  --Stephane Charette 01:16, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clubs and Extracurriculars