Template talk:Episode list/Archive 1

message: This is a direct copy of Template:Digimon episode. I hope to have this turned into a generalized template for ALL episodes. Likely this will include a HUGE list of variables in the template which will account for any specifics for episode lists. Anyway, I hope to make a few adjustments to this template sometime soon so we can begin using it for any episode list. Contributions are welcome and encouraged. --Will2k 03:11, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Depending on how many variables and if we can group some together it might be easier to make a few templates. No real example comes to mind currently, but I can image that those variables could get rather complex.. -- Ned Scott 07:19, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was thinking about just making some optional fields like just "Variable1", "Variable2", "Variable3" which can be used for whatever is appropriate for the episode (eg. Stardates, Japanese title, etc.). The syntax of the template looks complicated to me so I'm not entirely sure how to add this on. By the way, thanks for joining the project. I'm trying to put some wheels under this thing again and would gladly welcome some help. --Will2k 05:37, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Initial Template Discussions

message: Here's some ideas I've thrown together, the parameters are:
 
Example:
#	Screenshot	Title	Original airdate	Production code
Works great so far. Also note that I fixed some of the extra space found in the originals (List of South Park episodes#Season 1: 1997-1998) o.O -- Ned Scott 07:29, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Test entry 

message: I have done some editing and cleaned things up a bit. I have managed to get the entire first season of South Park working with this template. It can be found in my sandbox here. I can't figure out why the South Park table doesn't have all the lines there. Anyone? --Will2k 01:57, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think I got it working completely now. Check my Sandbox. - TheDJ (talk • contribs • WikiProject Television) 14:19, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Works for me. I'm comfortable making this live. --Will2k 18:20, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Oh and we should update the example at the top as well--Will2k 18:22, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Towards a working version

message: I know we still have some lose ends to tie up on the template and such, but I was thinking that maybe we should change the name of the template to Template:Episode list or something like that. -- Ned Scott 21:40, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: sounds fair to me.--Will2k 15:33, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  template name change 

message: I moved the episode number to be listed at the other end of the listing, as it's done in some of the featured lists.  I think I can add a thing to make it so one can select either side, but I figured this should be the default. -- Ned Scott 13:29, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I moved it to the left because I liked it better there. It feels more like an ordered list. I am not passionate about this though--Will2k 18:17, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In addition to making which side the episode number will be on optional, I'm also playing around with a second template with no image and optional airdate, so only episode number and title are required. This template would have the episode fixed at the left. The idea being that this could be an alternative template (like a starter template, or just for use with very little info episode lists), with all the variables the same so if one wants to "upgrade" to this template they could do so by just replacing the top part of the template text. -- Ned Scott 01:35, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Now that I think about it, even though I haven't seen it done this way, it would probably make more sence to have the number on the left and the image then put on the right... hmm, just a thought. -- Ned Scott 13:59, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think image on the right would look right.--Will2k 14:53, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  episode number 

message: I don't believe english colour codes are working (eg. white instead of FFFFFF). Can someone confirm or deny?--Will2k 18:24, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: For some reason putting # in one of the template's if statements causes it to freak out, so I made it so the # is outside of the problem area. But the side effect is when it tries "white" it does "#white", so it works with hex but not english.  I'll see if there's a way around this, there probably is and I'm just not seeing it. -- Ned Scott 23:48, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Can't we just test for the existance of #. If it's there, assume hex, else English.--Will2k 04:00, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's what I'm having problems with.  Putting # inside any of those #if functions seems to break it, etc. -- Ned Scott 04:03, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

text: It would be nice if we could also set the primary and secondary row colors so we don't have to be stuck with drab grey.  If there already is an easy way to do this feel free to smack me upside the head and point me in the right direction. --Argash 06:16, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, the "inspiration" for this was from lists such as The Simpsons (season 2), and it was intended to make color choice an option, but I must have gotten side tracked.. I'll throw something together as a test in a bit, since right now my mind is mush and can't seem to think of whatever it was I was supposed to do just now... or .. something.. But yeah, it's a good idea and hopefully whatever optional parameter it will become won't be too confusing or whatever. -- Ned Scott 06:23, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Colour 

message: :It would be nice if we could also set the primary and secondary row colors so we don't have to be stuck with drab grey.  If there already is an easy way to do this feel free to smack me upside the head and point me in the right direction. --Argash 06:16, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, the "inspiration" for this was from lists such as The Simpsons (season 2), and it was intended to make color choice an option, but I must have gotten side tracked.. I'll throw something together as a test in a bit, since right now my mind is mush and can't seem to think of whatever it was I was supposed to do just now... or .. something.. But yeah, it's a good idea and hopefully whatever optional parameter it will become won't be too confusing or whatever. -- Ned Scott 06:23, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Row Colors

message: I noticed that List of Stargate SG-1 episodes used a format of 150px for their images, so I made an ImageSize parameter.  Still defaults to 125px when none is defined. -- Ned Scott 09:54, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  ImageSize 

message: For template calls without an image, the template should default to this image: :Image:No_Screenshot.svg. Nothing else is neutral enough for fair use, without being obtrusive. Having a default image helps to keep cells the right size, and stops the table from looking plain shoddy and incomplete. -- Alfakim --  talk  14:45, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nothing else is neutral enough for fair use? What? Also, the table header can be used to keep the cells the right size.. Having a default image is no problem, we experimented with it before. But I don't think it's necessary. The template is attempting to be flexible, if one wishes to use that image as "default" then they can simply use that image when the parameter calls for an image. -- Ned Scott 15:26, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Kk. I'm just going for consistency here. It would be a little nasty to have multiple "no screenshot" images all around wikipedia. Please mention this image at your wikiproject to be used as a standard one for empty cells (if at all). what i meant about fair use was that some lists are in the habit of using a title picture to fill space, which isnt fair use. -- Alfakim --  talk  03:27, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image 

message: I used the template to make the List of Dirty Jobs episodes and found a few issues with the template:
* The WikiTable example in the Using the template doesn't work for the no image template.
* ProdCode doesn't appear to be "optional" as if the ProdCode isn't known, EpisodeNumber is used in the Production Code column.
On an unrelated note, might I suggest using a fake episode instead of a Southpark episode for the Example?  While I'm sure it's a funny episode, the episode title might distract from your goal of widescale usage. -- Gogo Dodo 09:07, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Updated the talk page to more clearly show how you need to adapt the wikitable header. - TheDJ (talk • contribs • WikiProject Television) 11:15, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Doh! I just remembered that I meant to make it so that EpisodeNumber is optional if ProdCode is used, and vise versa. -- Ned Scott 03:58, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for fixing the WikiTable example. Having an example of the WikiTable header for use with the no image template would be a good idea, too. If you have one, I'll probably flip the List of Dirty Jobs episodes over to the no image template. I can't do screen shots and screen shots wouldn't quite do Dirty Jobs justice. -- Gogo Dodo 05:45, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Template usage feedback 

message: While this template was being used for List of Xiaolin Showdown episodes, we figured out that the LineColor parameter does not yield any effects in Internet Explorer. Is there any way to ameliorate this? Ryulong 00:33, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe it's an error in how IE renders HTML tables all together. I recall hearing that the line separator didn't render a while back, but I would have thought MS would have fixed such an issue by now.. I'm a Mac user and MS stopped updating IE for Mac, so I don't have any real way to test things right now, but I'll see what I can find out. -- Ned Scott 01:14, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Line Color not working in IE

message: This doens't seem to work with empty cells.  I'm trying to make a page for Third Watch here but I don't want to have to fill in every single entry at one time.  How do I fix this?  Is seems like this is worse than a simple table with rowspan ="2" and colspan="5" although I agree the || || || || isn't as nice.  For example
Image	Title	Credited Writers	Director	Original Airdate	#
     	     	                	        	                	
     	     	                	        	                	
If that's the only way to have empty cells then we should switch.  I must be missing something.
- Peregrinefisher 04:51, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: For the short term the only thing I could think up of was to just put something in there to trigger the cell, like a blank space via  . The optional cell thing has been bothering me, and there should be a better way to handle it, but I'm not really sure how yet. I'll post on some talk pages, maybe leave a message at the village pump, and see if anyone has any good suggestions. -- Ned Scott 05:25, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Empty Cells

message: While on the topic of improving the template, I keep forgetting to note the page anchors via "id" thing that Farix and I were playing around with a few nights ago. I can't remember the proper terminology for it, but I think it's "page anchor". Like the Table of Contents, it would allow us to jump to a specific point in an article, such as a specific episode on a list.  For example List of The X-Files episodes#ep21-121. Right now it's set up to use either the EpisodeNumber or ProdCode parameters as the last value, List of Show Name episodes#(ep or pc)(number). Here's a copy of the discussion Farix and I were having:
:
Basically I figured one would use one or the other, but not both. I've seen lists where the ep number resets for each season, so I figured another alternative might be good for those lists. But yeah, there's probably a better way of doing that.. Any ideas? -- Ned Scott 22:35, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, after switching List of Ōban Star-Racers episodes to the Episode list template, I realized that won't work either because episode articles are linked to the title. Hmmm, maybe having the episode link and the episode title as separate fields, like what is done with some of the cite templates, may work. That will free up the episode name to be used as an ID. --TheFarix (Talk) 01:42, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: While the titles are more likely to not over-lap, using the numbers makes for a smaller URL/wikilink. It might be easier to just suggest a standard numbering method for the EpisodeNumber parameter. I'm just pleased to see that the basic concept of it works, so it'd probably be a good idea to work out the finer details on WT:LOE. -- Ned Scott 02:35, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page anchors 

message: New template code being tested. See WT:LOE#un-filled parameters are no longer an issue -- Ned Scott 09:48, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New template code being tested 

message: Curly braces are showing up in the color bar, at least on my monitor. - Peregrinefisher 01:24, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: oops, fixed. -- Ned Scott 03:55, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Problem 

message: What should I do if I want to include more than 2 fields that don't have a special parameter?  I want to include the episodes number overall and within a season.  Writer and Director are allready taking up Aux1 and Aux2.  I could use prod num or alternate date, but that doesn't seem right. - Peregrinefisher 22:27, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There's actually |EpisodeNumber2= I Just forgot to add it to the instructions :D -- Ned Scott 00:51, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  More Aux fields? 

message: What's the best way to put references in table header?  Say for tv.com and production code.  I did this, but it doesn't look right. - Peregrinefisher 23:03, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  References in the table header 

message: I've been standardising the list of Yu-Gi-Oh! episodes and there's something that I can't really seem to work out. It's at my Work Area. It can only go up to 210 boxes and then it goes screwy. I've tried removing some and it only goes up to 210 boxes. Maybe you could take a look, I'm not good at this coding stuff. (please don't point me to Template:Japanese episode list, I've worked on this for 6 hours and I just found out about that template, and I don't want to do it all over again. Template:nihongo works better for me.) - Zero1328 Talk? 09:47, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's strange as hell, I've never seen it do that before. I'll see what I can find out, if this is a limit to the templates or to the tables (probably a limit on the template, from the looks of it.) -- Ned Scott 10:56, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Have you been able to work anything out? I can't really think of any way to overcome this.  doesn't seem to have any problems, maybe there's a difference somewhere. - Zero1328 Talk? 08:52, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is very strange, I seemed to have fixed it, but I don't really understand why what I did fixed it. I basically took out the <includeonly> and self-translcuding example of Template:Episode list and... that seemed to fix the problem. -- Ned Scott 08:11, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That is definitely very wierd. Well, thanks for "fixing" the problem, I guess. - Zero1328 Talk? 08:52, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

text: It didn't seem to fix the problem when I put it in the actual article.  I have a little theory, maybe the size of the template code is too long and you "fixed" it by reducing the size.  is much smaller. That's all I can think of. - Zero1328 Talk? 01:28, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry it's taken my so long to respond. Yeah, it does seem that the size of the template code might be the problem. I have some ideas to make the template more efficient, and that should hopefully push the limit back further. Or a special split template could be made for really high use TV shows. -- Ned Scott 07:03, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Limit? 

message: The colored seperator line isn't showing up in my IE.  Is there anything we can do?  Ned? - Peregrinefisher 08:49, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I can confirm this issue for IE7. The template was built before IE7 really came out. We need to review this issue.--Will2k 17:35, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I knew I forgot to do something.. There is an alternative that will show up in IE, but I didn't include it right away because it looked really ugly with some lighter colors. I'll throw up some examples in a bit here, so you can see what I mean. It'll probably be fine, just some lists should change the color they use on some of the lines. -- Ned Scott 08:34, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Line color 

message: Check out List of South Park episodes. There are some extra columns without data showing up there.... Is this the result of a recent template change?--GunnarRene 16:52, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not seeing it in Safari (web browser) or the Mac version of Mozilla Firefox. What browser are you using? -- Ned Scott 17:13, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Broken column span 

message: Is there a way of entering the image size just at the top, instead of entering it for each episode imageGman124 21:18, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No there is not. You can leave the option empty, and then it will default to 125px --TheDJ (talk • contribs • WikiProject Television) 00:26, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As DJ said, there currently is not a way, but I would love to find one. This would also help out for those who choose to use custom colors for the line dividers and cell shading. -- Ned Scott 02:43, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ThanksGman124 05:41, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Maybe we should make a template for the table header part of the LOE?  Is there any way a header can control these types of things? - Peregrine Fisher 06:09, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not without an overall template, I'm afraid. Maybe A bug could be filled for a  Magic wordthat would allow a given variable to beset fro severables templates on a page à la ? I somehow doubt it's workable, though.Circeus 22:00, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image Size 

message: See also: #Limit?
I'm having the same problem right now on List of One Piece episodes. I'm trying to add episode 297, but it goes all screwy, like Zero said. Also, Template:One Piece general at the bottom of the page hasn't been working for a while either, and I think it's related. The Splendiferous Gegiford 18:35, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: it seems we really need to revisit this issue. --TheDJ (talk • contribs • WikiProject Television) 17:14, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

text: We just started making the entries by hand on List of One Piece episodes after the point where the template doesn't work.  If we can fix the template that would be best, but it's a workaround that works pretty well. - Peregrine Fisher 18:48, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, but that still kinda sucks of course. We should get a wikimedia coder to explain exactly what's going on here. --TheDJ (talk • contribs • WikiProject Television) 19:12, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We could ask at Help talk:Table.  I should say that everytime someone from there helps me with something difficult, its User:EncMstr.  He seems to know a lot about tables. - Peregrine Fisher 19:16, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

text:  I asked at Wikipedia:Requested templates. -- memset 21:28, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

text: If the template is updated, it should be done in one try, so there should probably be a temporary template page first. This template is transcluded thousands of times, and it's going to quickly cause a large spike in the job queue once the template is changed. Three ways to make it smaller are: remove whitespace, use , and change "ParaCheck123" to "PC". Cheers. --MZMcBride 03:23, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Also, Template:!! is used just once in this template, but that requires listing it at the bottom of every edit page that uses this template. That should be switched from  to  in order to stop that from happening. Or use a line break and it will only require one . --MZMcBride 03:27, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's related to the over-all article size? Ah, this whole time I thought it was because the template had too many variables, but I guess that bit of info changes things. The "paracheck" however, is required or else all lists of episodes will display all possible columns, with or without them being listed in the article itself. This allows editors to keep optional table cells open without having to place a dash or something for that variable. -- Ned Scott 04:41, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Can "ParaCheck123" be shortened to "PC"? Doing so would free up 200000 bytes on a page with 200 episodes. Also per my comments above, this template should be updated as few times as possible and it should implement other byte-reducing measures when it is updated. Cheers. --MZMcBride 05:01, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I put my proposed code here. --MZMcBride 05:07, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I wanted to use something that would not likely be used in the template itself. It could be anything, really, just something uncommon. I guess some zany unicode character could work. -- Ned Scott 05:13, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: new and improved, ParaCheck123 is now replaced with "ʁ". There is also this second version which excludes centering the text in some columns, a minor formatting change, but gets rid a bunch of "align="center"" -- Ned Scott 05:22, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

text: also, I forgot to do the /doc thing (thanks DJ), which is now shown at User:Ned Scott/sandbox. -- Ned Scott 05:53, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The spaces in lines like #expr: + should be removed as well. See my sandbox for the code. --MZMcBride 05:57, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: this idea I had a while back would save a lot of data and solve the color bar problem in IE. Makes it look funny for articles that use a light color value, but that's a minor problem. I'll try to work this into my current sandbox copy. -- Ned Scott 06:13, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Test of "average" (sort of) extreme episode list: User:Ned Scott/sandbox2, using User:Ned Scott/sandbox. -- Ned Scott 06:37, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

text: The template in the sandbox seems to be a vast improvement. The current Template:Episode list stops at about 252 transclusions, while the newer User:Ned Scott/sandbox "template" stops at about 456 transclusions. Great work everyone! Now it just needs to be implemented.... --MZMcBride 23:25, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Without the "ParaCheck" (changed to "ʁ" in my sandbox version) then the template will break on most, if not all, of the articles that currently use it. It's used as a way to switch between images and no images formats, as well as triggering table columns without having to force a space or dash for that parameter in the article (some articles don't use Aux1 or Aux2, some only use Aux1, etc). -- Ned Scott 04:06, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Then I am quite surprised why every item in User:Gracenotes/Sandbox works. Is it a coincidence, that I picked examples from articles for which my version will not break? GracenotesT § 04:27, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If all parts are filled out then it's not a problem. The idea is that if a list is in-progress then table columns will still open up and maintain proper formatting. -- Ned Scott 04:36, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: See my example on User:Ned Scott/sandbox4. Also, there are three different formats (almost forgot about the 3rd) the template can make. One is screenshot and summary, two is summary only, and three is no image or summary (basic list, one line per episode, and no color line). -- Ned Scott 04:38, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Ah, that works, although it might be best just to have separate templates (eg, Episode list, Episode list image). By the way, using "ʁ" isn't that bad of an idea, besides the fact that it takes up two bytes, while another character make take up only one. GracenotesT § 04:46, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, we did have a separate no images template originally, but I did not know about the added limits merging the two would have made at the time. Splitting them shouldn't be too hard, as a bot could be used to update only the articles that need to be. A bit more than just looking at whatlinkshere, since that won't tell you if it's image or no image, but still shouldn't be hard for a bot. -- Ned Scott 05:05, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My version works, of course -- it just has a bug different set of features. Well, all that matters is that the size is down, and that all articles for which the new version will break are fixed beforehand. GracenotesT § 20:15, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Limits part 2 

message: I hate to request another edit so fast, when we were trying to keep the edit count for the template low, but this edit will fix the IE problem. -- Ned Scott 13:11, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I thought we previously decided that  could be replaced with an alternative. Using it only once seems goofy, and it requires that the template is listed every time  is. --MZMcBride 17:14, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: When I tried to replace some with manual HTML table code it got screwy. I'll throw some examples up on my sandbox if I have time before work. -- Ned Scott 19:26, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: User:Ned Scott/sandbox4#Additional code replaced with HTML. This uses User:Ned Scott/sandbox3. -- Ned Scott 19:38, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see why  can't be used... can you explain ? --TheDJ (talk • contribs • WikiProject Television) 19:55, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm a bit confused at this question.  does the same thing as . -- Ned Scott 23:41, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes it does. Which was the whole point. why include another template a million times if we can just use the one. It's easier for the wikipedia servers to just have to include one of them. --TheDJ (talk • contribs • WikiProject Television) 00:00, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Update for IE 

message: The image captions aren't working for me right now.  It may have something to do with the recent changes, I don't know. - Peregrine Fisher 18:56, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I had taken out ImageCaption and TopColor because they didn't seem to be used very much and were "less vital", but I guess they could be added back in.. -- Ned Scott 19:32, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would like to have the caption part, I feel it helps meet FU requirements.  It allows the image to be discussed specifically without messing up the formatting.  It's true other people don't use it much, but I've included it with the 1000+ images I've inserted into LOEs.  TopColor I don't really care about, since you can simulate it with the table header, I believe. - Peregrine Fisher 19:52, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you point us at some articles that use this option btw? might be handy. --TheDJ (talk • contribs • WikiProject Television) 19:53, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm using it now in List of Man vs. Wild episodes.  There's lots more at User:Peregrine Fisher/Contributions. - Peregrine Fisher 20:17, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Cbrown1023 talk 02:07, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you very much. -- Ned Scott 06:55, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Captions 

message: Not centering the date doesn't look right.  It's probably the same with some other fields that I don't use. - Peregrine Fisher 04:26, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. The date should be centered. I don't think this change was even brought up in the recent change discussion. Would like to see it added back. :: ZJH (T C E) 22:01, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, this was something taken out to help the template's limitation problem. It was a low priority option and helped to remove a good amount of code. I’ve got some ideas on how we could add it back without increasing size, but it would likely involve renaming parameters and having to update all lists via bot. -- Ned Scott 22:39, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Is there a zilla # for this limitation problem? :: ZJH (T C E) 19:05, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure if there has been a request to increase the template limit size, but the developers were the ones who implemented it. It's a restriction that they placed on the articles to avoid server load and page-usage issues. For more information, see here. --MZMcBride 19:08, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Centering the date 

message: Sortable version in testing, see Talk:List of The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya episodes#Sortable episode format. -- Ned Scott 19:20, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Uh. I don't like that, looks too much for me. Wouldn't it also add to the transclusion size? :-\? I personally believe it works better using the style already used at that LOE. Matthew 19:24, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I take it that it is not possible to keep the LOE looking the same and still be sortable?  Also, there are ways to specify a sort key using . - Peregrine Fisher 20:50, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: With more tweaking they'll look exactly the same except for the episode number cells will have to be the full length. The sortable version will also be it's own template, separate from this one, due to the style change. Basically, people can use it on lists where the value of being sortable outweighs the minor style change. -- Ned Scott 00:16, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sortable episode format 

message: I assume that the cell containing ShortSummary is to stretch the length of the columns it's under.  Currently, there seems to be code to calculate the number of defined columns that aren't the image column, and use that for the colspan; couldn't you simply use colspan="0"?  From the HTML 4.01 spec, section 11.2.6: "The value zero ("0") means that the cell spans all columns from the current column to the last column of the column group (COLGROUP) in which the cell is defined."  —TangentCube, Dialogues 11:53, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Cool, I never knew this. That certainly should simplify the code. We'll experiment with it. Thx for the tip. --TheDJ (talk • contribs • WikiProject Television) 12:18, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortunately: "None of Opera 9.02, Firefox 2.0, IE7 and Safari 2.0.4 implement colspan="0" as specified in HTML 4.01. Trident, Presto and WebKit at least agree on what to do with it: they treat it like colspan="1".I suggest that only positive integers be conforming and that non-conforming values be treated as 1." --TheDJ (talk • contribs • WikiProject Television) 12:47, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Point taken.  Sometimes I forget there are other browsers out there.  I find the bit about Firefox odd though, as it did display correctly under both Firefox 1.5(.0.11) and 2.0(.0.1) in the test example I made. —TangentCube, Dialogues 21:18, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll try to do some more diggin on this. I have a feeling that possibly only the "colgroup" part of this spec. isn't correctly implemented by the browsers. --TheDJ (talk • contribs • WikiProject Television) 22:47, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ShortSummary and colspan 

message: Well, with the removal of the images I believe this may bring some benefits... for example: we could now re-centre columns that need to be central, right? Matthew 14:28, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Space 

message: Once it's safe to completely remove the Image options in the template (when all the lists are updated correctly, etc) this should become the new table code. I've tested it at User:Ned Scott/sandbox4 and everything seems to work fine (minus those that still try to use a screen shot column). It also re-centers all the cells except for Title and ShortSummary, as it was before. -- Ned Scott 21:07, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New template code 

message: Someone needs to revert Ed's edits to the template, as they have broken the template on many pages. -- Ned Scott 18:23, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm unsure as to why he's changed the background colour? Matthew 18:32, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: and note this test: User:Ned Scott/sandbox7 -- Ned Scott 18:33, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What's the point of protection and putting all those warning tags up, if someone is just going to go and ignore them and the talk page? I'm sorry, but this pisses me off. -- Ned Scott 19:09, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Should be all fixed, missed the #ifeq undefined variable hack, /sandbox7 test works including the episode numbering bug that was there before. Re-centered all fields per suggestion above, and removed hard coded (white) background. Wikitables already define the background colour in the stylesheet, which shouldn't be overridden without good reason. Also reformatted code for legibility. ed g2s • talk 20:44, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  They're not central though (in fact airdate/ep. # have become de-central), :-\. Matthew 20:47, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Just saw that, typo. ed g2s • talk 20:51, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ah, okay :-). Matthew 20:55, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Broken template 

message: LineColor needs to be # to default correctly if undefined, but still listed in the template on the list. -- Ned Scott 00:33, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The template also needs  to have   after it (as in  ) to force open the summary cell when not filled out. -- Ned Scott 05:32, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This copy of my sandbox has both updates, removed the forced white background (noted above), and has removed spaces for the template limitation problem. It's been tested, etc etc. Just literally copy the entire contents of the sandbox from that link to this template and it will work. -- Ned Scott 05:41, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ned does this fix this problem I see on the first example of this page (right under the table with the doc) ? See this image (Safari): 
 --TheDJ (talk • contribs • WikiProject Television) 19:20, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems it was a problem with the example itself and not the template? It was a bit odd, adding an extra|- fixed it, but it shouldn't have actually needed it. All the articles using the template seem fine. -- Ned Scott 03:10, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Perhaps less then before, but with series stretching for over 10 years, I think it still won't hurt. --TheDJ (talk • contribs • WikiProject Television) 12:43, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

text: #Limits part 2 is why we started doing it. But thinking about it now, I guess since we now have removed a lot of stuff for the images we can afford line breaks again. -- Ned Scott 03:01, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  still needs changes 

message: im new to this whole template thing but wondering but was checking to see if its possible to rearrange some of the categories... an example would be the List of Family Guy episodes family guy episode list.  It was working fine before the images were removed, but after the columns have changed order.  It would look a lot better if the total eps column was after the production code as opposed to after the season episode number... Is there any way to fix this now or does something have to been done to the template to get the desired effects?  Grande13 17:54, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I actually believe it's more logical for episode number to be first. Addendum: Those productions code don't cite a source, I intend to remove them once the page is unprotected unless a verifiable source is given. Matthew 18:04, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually the production codes can be found at the end of every episode and on the copyright database.  Current the current season episode numder is first, followed by the total series episode number, but that just looks awkward.  which is why it should go episode number, title, airdate, production code, then total ep number. Grande13 18:18, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I guess we have differing opinions. "Actually the production codes can be found at the end of every episode and on the copyright database", so cite it... don't just say, let us be fair here: I'm not a mind reader. Without a citation for all we know information could be false. Matthew 18:28, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Hmm, an interesting situation. If a lot of lists are doing this same thing then it might be something to consider. It would look a lot better if listed after the prod code. I gotta think about this one.., I'm not really sure what the best thing would be to do. -- Ned Scott 04:05, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: yeah im not sure if its a simple coding fix that would allow the categories to be interchangable or if it is something that would require a more complex solution.  All i know is that it looks a bit odd having two lists of numbers next to each other, and past templates or styles had the overall episode count as the last column and that seemed to work and look just fine Grande13 04:15, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  possible reordering? 

message: provides us with a list of pages using the Image parameter:
:Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:Episode_list/withimages. ed g2s • talk 01:00, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice! -- Ned Scott 03:05, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Done.  No, seriously.  Done.  There are two false positives, because MartinBot rolled me back: List of Only Fools and Horses episodes and List of King of the Hill episodes. Everything else is talk and user pages.  We're good to go. I don't even wanna THINK about how many pages I edited. -- Ipstenu (talk|contribs) 21:09, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Whoa, you are a machine. Thank you very much for the clean up. -- Ned Scott 03:04, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Temporary hack 

message: List of The Sarah Jane Adventures stories.
The page itself uses , but the series itself will consist of "five two-part stories". In that case, the stories would be in serial format and would need to be in italics: see also Black Orchid, The King's Demons, The Sontaran Experiment. Will (talk) 21:29, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A bit of a freak case. 

message: For a short that contains multiple shorts per show (see List of Pinky of the Brain episodes, which I am working on converting over to this template; other shows like Animaniacs and Tiny Toon Adventures), is there a way to combine the subparts with this template such that, for a two sub-part episode, the "episode number" row-spans over 4 lines (1 line for 1st subpart title, date, etc, 2nd line for description, and then repeat for the second subpart).  The way I started on the example page works if there's no other way around it, but I'm curious if there's any tricks I'm missing here. --Masem 18:25, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Currently it's not an option, but it's been something I've been thinking about. There's a good number of shows set up like this, and it wouldn't be a bad idea to set up another template with that formatting. -- Ned Scott 05:05, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Subparts of an episode 

message: A season number column needs to be added to this template —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pascale989 (talk • contribs).
You should create one table using this template for each season (not one single table inclusive of all seasons), making the season number unnecessary.  See List of South Park episodes for an example. --Masem 23:49, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  This template needs revising 

message: I think a description/summary on the same line/row as the other columns is necessary, particularly for sortable tables where another row will mess up the sorting. —Remag Kee 04:50, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A sortable version has been made. Just use . For an example, see List of The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya episodes. You can also use an Aux parameter as an alternative summary field, like "Aux1=Short summary of what happened goes here". -- Ned Scott 05:29, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortunately, that isn't the same style as this episode list (a single line)--and it has forced white backgrounds (when it should be using overridable class/IDs instead)... I tried "aux1" on this template but it didn't do anything. —Remag Kee 07:38, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Same-line description/summary 

message: Can I propose that we remove the automatic quote marks from the episode title section. The reason for this is, when you are going to provide verification of an episode title, it puts the citation inside the quote marks, instead on on the outside. It really isn't that much of a hassle to manually put in "", and this why we can follow policy and verify the title without having to put excessive, and extraneous information elsewhere just so we can mention it (i.e. Having to write 22 separate sentences below, mentioning the titles, just so you can source them).   BIGNOLE   (Contact me) 14:03, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: How often is it necessary to source one specific episode title? Usually, general references do the trick just fine.Circeus 17:39, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, if you are talking about future episodes that have not aired yet, you are less likely to have one source that takes care of all the episode titles. Take Smallville for instance. The official site only lists episodes after they air, but we know the titles for the episodes up to episode 9--although, we only have reliable sources for episodes two and three. Now, TV Guide takes care of the episode titles when they get the write-ups from the networks, but if you have reliable sources for just the titles--which, TV Guide doesn't list anything until the write-ups are released to them--then you cannot put them next to the episode titles because they interfere with the quotation mark.   BIGNOLE   (Contact me) 17:43, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe there have been other issues with the automatic quotation marks. Having to manually put in quotation marks isn't a big deal, and removing the automatic ones will probably make for a smaller template. We still do have the size concern. Jay32183 20:49, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This probably would be fine, but I might suggest running a bot to "subst" the quotes for the current lists. I can preform the task if necessary. -- Ned Scott 05:27, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That would be nice. This way, no one's sitting in the dark about the change (kind of like how they did when they changed the coding to the quotebox and didn't tell anyone).   BIGNOLE   (Contact me) 12:16, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quote marks 

message: Since Writer, Director, and to a lesser extent, Ratings, are used so often by the Aux parameters, I think these should be given actual named parameters (which was the whole point of making named parameters, it just makes it easier to tell what you are editing). Thoughts? -- Ned Scott 23:50, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good idea, but would all existing lists using aux fields have to be changed manually, or could a bot do it?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Matthewedwards (talk • contribs) 01:06, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: They would have to be changed, but in theory this wouldn't break the formatting for all those waiting to be changed. -- Ned Scott 08:11, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  three new named parameters 

message: Please edit the very first line of the template and replace it with:
{{
This brings back TopColor, which was originally removed to make the template smaller and because no one used it. Since then we've removed the code for images and other tricks, there is more "room", and there are a few new situations where TopColor can now be used. Basically, it will be used to add alternating coloring for lists such as List of Lost episodes, and used to highlight special episodes within the list. I've tested this in my sandbox before hand (at User:Ned Scott/sandbox5 and User:Ned Scott/sandbox8. (userfied template at User:Ned Scott/sandbox4) This will have no effect on any list unless someone defines TopColor= for an entry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ned Scott (talk • contribs) 08:15, 12 January 2008
:Done. AmiDaniel (talk) 08:22, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  TopColor 

message: Another thought for this method is simply what may or may not be preferred, from a stylistic approach. Not all shows use season pages, and even some that do, people often still like seeing a summary on the main LOE. Season pages are good because, from a size perspective, you can have a little more summary without it looking weird, for those lists without individual episode articles. As many of you know, individual episodes (WP:EPISODE) is its own debate right now. I hope to approach this from a neutral position for the template's sake, so regardless of episode notability, we have some discussion on how this template might work in either situation. -- Ned Scott 06:12, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Style concerns

message: Several lists are still using light color line separators, which used to look fine with an older version of the template, but are kind of an eyesore now. Another minor issue, but we might want to throw together simple little "pallets" of colors that look good, and place those suggestions on the doc page (or something). As well as fixing the ones already being used.
Another change from an older version is that backgrounds for tables are no longer white (this was done a while ago). The idea is that by not forcing white, people can be more flexible with the template, and it makes more sense to define that value for the whole table at the table header. However, most lists still look better with the white contrast, so another possible to-do (in addition to the adjustment of light-color LineColor) is to insert these into articles as well.
Not asking anyone to do these things, necessarily, but just making people aware of them. I plan to do as much as I can myself for these little updates. -- Ned Scott 06:12, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed on the need for some "standard" pallets.  I know it was frustrating for me to find set of colors when I first started working, so now I just reuse them over and over.  Also updating the instructions to have it standard to have color coded headers for seasons would be nice. AnmaFinotera (talk) 06:49, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

text: No opinion, as I choose a linecolor that works best for each specific LoE/season article. But a basic pallette would certainly help newbies. – sgeureka t•c 09:37, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: other stuff

message: I did some testing in my sandbox, and as far as I can tell Template:Episode list/draft won't break anything, and should work with new DirectedBy and WrittenBy fields.  In addition, I had a clever idea for what to do about the refs in titles, as well as any other options one might want for a title: RTitle. When trying to think of a name for a parameter, I kept thinking of "RawTitle", which, as it sounds, would be a title without any formatting. But at the same time many people would want something like "ReferenceTitle", because they don't want to loose the formatting, they just want an additional option for references. The result was "RTitle". If you don't define "Title", you can use "RTitle" instead to replace the title, or you can use "RTitle" with "Title" for references after the formatting.
Also, right now I have the order DirectedBy then WrittenBy. I'm not sure what order is used more, or if it matters or not.
If there are no objections/comments/whatever then we should be clear to make an edit request. -- Ned Scott 07:00, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No objection from me. The order of the writer and director doesn't really matter to me; the LoEs at WP:FL give a slight preference (60 percent?) to list the director first. – sgeureka t•c 17:38, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Holding again. Nothing is broken, but I had an idea when working with Template:Japanese episode list. -- Ned Scott 05:11, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Template draft

message: 
Please replace the entire contents of Template:Episode list with this. This is a minor update to fix some extra padding in the ShortSummary cell, and to also add . -- Ned Scott 08:45, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Plus, it will correctly place  on the main template (since size isn't a major concern right now, thanks to the prep-processor update). -- Ned Scott 12:21, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Done DMacks (talk) 01:45, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minor update 

message: Not sure how widespread the use of these new parameters are yet, but Matthewedwards left this note on my talk page that might be worth considering:
:Hi Ned. I think that the "Written by" field should appear before the "directed by" field, because that is how they are usually billed on the TV shows, whether it's during the action after the opening credits, or on the scrolling end credits. -- Matthew | talk | Contribs 06:52, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know how I missed this on my talk page! Yeah, it just made sense to me. The only problem is with any episode lists that now include real director or writer fields. It would mean finding them and correcting the table headers. -- Matthew | talk | Contribs 14:06, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I have already used DirectedBy and WrittenBy in List of Carnivàle episodes, List of Stargate Atlantis episodes, and Stargate SG-1 (season 1) through Stargate SG-1 (season 10). It's not a big deal to change the headers, but if we want to swap these two parameters, we should be doing it really soon or never. As I said in another thread, wikipedia has so far not shown any preference, and I can live with either order. – sgeureka t•c 14:37, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Order of DirectedBy and WrittenBy 

message: I think there needs to be a field to reference the AltTitle outside of the quotes. -- Jamie jca (talk) 19:44, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Not a bad idea. -- ṃ•α•Ł•ṭ•ʰ•Ə•Щ•  @ 14:19, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  AltTitle reference 

message: Currently, the template has HTML anchors of form ep and pc.  I think these would be more likely to be used without the prefix, like  and  . Superm401 - Talk 19:59, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The reason we put in the prefix was to avoid a situation where both EpisodeNumber and ProdCode could be the same number. While it's rare, it has happened on a few lists. -- Ned Scott 05:13, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Simpler HTML anchors