Talk:Vampire (Buffy the Vampire Slayer)/Archive 1

message: I've created an in-depth article on vampires in Buffy Wiki, feel free to extract information from it.--Gonzalo84 00:27, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Lots of references here that I don't recognize, though I've seen all of both series.  I'm guessing that you don't really mean to link to Doug Sanders the golfer.  —Tamfang 03:53, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  or to a magazine called The Judge. —Tamfang 19:07, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  or to Caligula's sister Drusilla.  —Tamfang 19:46, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Indeed.  This information needs to be sourced or (not to sound insensitive) it will get the old nip/tuck.  In addition, information from non-Joss material (see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Buffy/Canon) ought to be sectioned off lower in the article. -  Che Nuevara:  Join the Revolution 17:16, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Buffy Wiki 

message: I removed this paragraph: 
: The Judge himself is another proof of the vampire's "humanity", for which he feels nothing but revolting. He's disgusted by Spike and Dru's affection and Dalton's love for knowledge. Yet he considers Angelus "pure" (but this is not from his absolute lack of humanity, but for his absolute lack of concern/affection towards others)
The Judge's statement "there is no humanity in him (Angel)" contradicts the thesis of this section that a vampire takes much of its personality from its human predecessor; to make it even compatible with that thesis (which is supported by pretty much everything else in the series) it must be twisted, as in the parenthesis, into irrelevance.  (If the passage is restored, it ought to link to Innocence, not to The Judge (a magazine).)  —Tamfang 19:30, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  humanity or not humanity 

message: So you can read Cordelia's mind, or what?  Given that several times we've seen vampires hypnotize humans, why explicitly reject the notion that there's some unnatural charisma mojo goin' on?  If you don't buy it why not simply cut it?  —Tamfang 05:18, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  vampiric charisma 

message: Is that an attempt at spelling rictus, or a mistranslation, or what?  —Tamfang 06:43, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  facial wrists?? 

message: "Angel sends his love." I don't think this is a real demonstration of psychic. As I interpreted while watching Phases, she just had the message before she died. After all, she knew from a previous conversation that Angelus knew Buffy decently well. Any other opinions? Ekarderif 16:02, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Psychic abilities 

message: Re: "Andrew Vorba (Never Kill a Boy on the First Date) speaks of a "he" that told him to attack the Scoobies and fight Buffy. This "he" could be the Aurelian vampire that sired him, or a figment of his imagination."  I thought it was clear that the "he" being referred to was God.  Vorba as a human was a hellfire-and-brimstone Christian, and when he felt the vampire blood lust, he probably figured that God wanted him to kill. --Jwwalker 06:34, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: By the way, did Vorba's tattoos include any crosses?  —Tamfang 21:09, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Andrew Vorba and Psychic Link 

message: When Spike calls Dracula's tricks "showy Gypsy stuff", is he saying that they're not natural vampire powers (whatever that means), or that they're too frivolous for a serious vampire to bother with?  —Tamfang 03:44, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Definitely the first statement and probably the later as well--he was insulting Dracula at the time, but only the first statement can be held as being accurate given the evidence. --Majin Gojira 10:57, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Yeah, I think that his statement tells us that vampires can use smoke-and-mirror magic tricks in addition to their own vampire powers, but that many vampires (especially Spike, with his particular love of direct combat) look down on those who rely so heavily on dramatics. Tambourineman 16:05, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

text: What about his power that allows him to return even after being staked?  That would be tremendously useful. Voicingmaster 20:48, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  showy Gypsy stuff 

message: There is a contradiction in the Invitations section.  Dorm rooms are listed as a type of "temporary accommodations" that vampires can enter uninvited.  The very next bullet point indicates that vampires do need invitations to enter dorm rooms.  Both statements cite the same two episodes. UncreativeNameMaker 07:45, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think this just hasn't been worded properly. I think to go into the dorm building the vamps don't need an invite as it's essentially a public place, but to enter the room where someone actually lives then they would need an invite. Maybe it just need to be clarified, by someone who can watch the relevant episode.--NeilEvans 11:26, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  So how did Sunday's gang get into dorm rooms in "The Freshman"?  They had a practice of stealing their victims' stuff and leaving notes for surviving roommates to find.  Buffy's roomie was not human, but Buffy herself was alive when they stole her umbrella.  —Tamfang 08:02, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Perhaps Buffy's first death removed her immunity; the beginning of season 4 is the only time when she's not sharing her residence with another human.  But then it's hard to explain her invitations to Spike (in Becoming and again later) and Angel (Lovers Walk); if she lacks residence immunity, she ought also to lack the ability to invite. —Tamfang (talk) 04:09, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

text: Spike met Warren at the end of "I Was Made to Love You", when he commissioned the Buffybot.  Presumably Warren's mom invited him in.  Good catch, though, I never thought to ask how he got into the basement!  —Tamfang 07:55, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

text: An alternative hypothesis: the basement, and the house to which it belonged, were not in current use as a residence.  Wasn't it destroyed when Buffy tripped the booby-traps?  Mrs Mears might object to that! —Tamfang 07:58, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

text: There are some anachronisms in the concept of being invited in; Angel mentions in Buffy that just uttering the words "come in" is enough, but when "you can't" is added to them as a prefix, they don't work their magic.  Plus, there is the occasion when Cordelia says "Angel is totally invited to come over", which removes the problem (which may be due to the actual, DEAD, owners of that home are still in there)...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.122.120.244 (talk) 19:18, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Invitations 

message: The article discusses Anne Pratt (Spike's mum), saying that she is an example of a vampire who was too inhibited to say that Spike was too attached to her in life, but was free to say them once she had no soul.  I had a different interpretation, so I rewatched Lies My Parents Told Me.  It seems that Spike's original interpretation of events was (as the article says) that she was finally saying what she had always felt, and that is why the event was so deeply traumatic to him.  But at the end, when Spike has dealt with his mother issues and diffused his hypnotic trigger, it seems that he has come to a different conclusion - that his mother loved him dearly, and that it was just the demon talking and not her.  This indicates to me that she was an example of a vampire trying (as Angelus did when he lost his soul in Buffy Season 2) to stamp out all the good, loving elements of humanity from her human life, contradicting what this article now says.  So, I think that Anne Pratt should be catagorized as a vampire who was the corrupt opposite of her human self instead.  What do others think? Tambourineman 16:18, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it's still open to interpretaion. It could be that his mother did have some slight feeling of being smothered by William's love and the vampire now living in her body twisted it to such an extent to what we see in the episode. We know that some vestiges of the human personality of left over after siring, but that the demon twist, and degrades any vestige of humanity.--NeilEvans 16:28, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vampire Psychology 

message: Two pieces within the article speak of the vampire not needing to breathe, yet possibly retaining the reflex.  How does Spike's drowning torture fit into this?  
: When was that?  —Tamfang 05:06, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the simple answer is that it's almost certainly a writing screw-up.  Putting aside that meta explanation and coming up with an in-story reason is going to cause us some problems, since we're not allowed to speculate.  We might be able to come up with any number of plausible guesses, but Wikipedia can't.  If it warrants a mention then it'll have to be something purely factual, describing what happened with no attempt to add any explanatory interpretation.--Nalvage 13:33, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Another case where Spike's breathing is (at least arguably) handled wrong is late in season 4: he comes to Giles's door, stops, hyperventilates a bit, knocks and announces, panting for verisimilitude, that the soldier-boys (or someone else?) are after him.  —Tamfang 05:06, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Drowning Torture 

message: "In either case, the vampire is immune to the effects of sunlight and instantly regenerates wounds, such as those caused by staking or even an attempted beheading: the flesh heals immediately behind the passing blade."
I don't think a vampire could survive a beheading. We've seen that invulrability protects from sunlight, and heals wounds such as stabs to the heart, but what evidence have we seen that suggests that the flesh would heal as the blade passes? In Spike: Old Wounds, Spike encounters a vampire who is wearing another gem of Amara. He cuts off the vampire's hand and destroys the ring. Now, if a vampire's neck is protected, surely his wrist should be as well? Furthermore, in "Tales of the Vampires", a vampire gets a heart transplant opperation so that he can enjoy the sunlight. The scientist says to him "Now, don't go getting your head cut off. It's a heart not a neckbrace." I've rewatched the gem of Amara episodes, and while they talk about how a vampire wearing the ring can survive stakes, sunlight and fire, they conveniently avoid the subject of decapitation. For these reasons, I believe that decapitation would kill an otherwise invulnrable vampire. The quote "It's a heart, not a necbrace", and the way the scientist warns against decapitation really jumps out at me. The comic is considered canon, and if it applies to the heart transplants, it's a logical conclusion that the same would apply with the gem of Amara.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.167.54.64 (talk • contribs) 
I'm thinking that you're right. Only, even if the vamp is wearing the gem, the beheading would still work and ta-dah! Dust. So why is the vamp wearing a gem called unkillable? Pokemon Buffy Titan 05:23, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Absolute invulrability 

message: I was cleaning up a marked disambiguation page for Sire per Wikipedia:Disambiguation, and there was a link to this article. The vampire term "sire" and "to sire" are not decribed at wikipedia or wiktionary so far (unless I missed something) but its gets mentioned very prominently in this article here (I have never heard the term though), so I'd encourage anyone to either start that article (Sire (vampire)) or have a look at the disambiguation page and help out. – sgeureka t•c 21:15, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The only time anyone will ever want to know what sire (vampire) means is when they're reading this page, or something that ought to link here.  So sire should be defined here; it does not need a page of its own.  —Tamfang 06:21, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sire 

message: : The disease appears to remain in the vampire's body, given that Darla was afflicted with syphilis again after being resurrected as a human, however it is no longer transmissible. Otherwise, syphilis would have passed from Darla to Angelus and from Angel to Buffy Summers.
I removed this because there is another explanation.  W&H resurrected Darla as she was when alive, complete with infection and soul.  This does not mean that vampire Darla retained the infection, any more than she retained a human soul.  —Tamfang 05:50, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Darla's infection 

message: I removed most of the new section "Becoming Human".  Darla's resurrection was a possibly unique use of major magic, from which we can't necessarily extrapolate anything.  This bit —
: There is a suggestion that in the grand scheme of things a vampire becoming human is not at all uncommon - note the question a Wolfram and Hart employee asks of somebody which appears to be de rigour: 
— sounds like a casual joke to me, and it's not in the script that I downloaded from, er, somewhere or other.  (Misspelled rigueur, by the way.)  —Tamfang 05:29, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting point about Billy; see also "Living Conditions", where Kathy sucked out most(?) of Buffy's soul and merely made her bitchy.  —Tamfang 07:07, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  cures for vampirism 

message: :Vampires in this form are even stronger than they are in "human" form.
Any source for this? I don't remember noticing a difference in strength between vamp and non-vamp face when they're fighting.--The Scourge 01:08, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a bit of opinion that keeps being removed and then just gets added again, as far as I know no compelling evidence has cropped up. --Nalvage 13:15, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

text: On at least one occasion, when Buffy and Angel were about to attack a lair of badguys, Buffy said "Better put on your game face."  Not compelling but at least suggestive.  —Tamfang 20:58, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vamp-face increases strength? 

message: Fixed three problems in this page. 
:1. Spike is not intellectual. When alive, William is pseudo-intellectual, as evidenced by the mention of his bad poetry. As Spike, his relative stupidity (and lack of foresight) are constantly shown i.e. his flawed plan to separate Buffy from her friends.   
:The article erroneously says: "Curiously, Spike and Drusilla do not drink from the three slayers they killed"
:2. Spike actually did drink (more accurately, taste) blood from the Boxer rebellion slayer.  
:3. Drusilla wasn't involved in the deaths of the Boxer or 70's NYC slayers.
:One thing I didn't correct, but should be is the definition of vampires as being dead. This is followed by a definition of death, then says they're actually undead. Given the way-too-massive size of this article, this would be better condensed as simply stating that vampires are undead, as that's pretty much what they've always been defined as. 97.82.247.200 19:20, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  And Spike wasn't involved in killing Kendra. I wrote "the three Slayers they killed" because between them they killed three Slayers. —Tamfang 07:50, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fixed Errors 

message: :Image:S203 Spike.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 02:43, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fair use rationale for Image:S203 Spike.jpg 

message: :Image:S203 Spike.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 19:05, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fair use rationale for Image:S203 Spike.jpg 

message: :Image:Vamp Dusted.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 19:46, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fair use rationale for Image:Vamp Dusted.JPG 

message: Could someone familiar with the article please archive talk items that are now closed (resolved)? This makes it easier for new folks to read what's relevant and takes up less loading time for users with slower computer connections. Benjiboi 05:50, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archive closed talk items please 

message: the current images should be sent to the wikipedia Image lab for improvement - they seem way too dark to be terribly helpful. Benjiboi 21:43, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image improvement 

message: What happened to this article? It used to be much longer and more detailed with sections on the vampire's weakness etc.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vampire in Rug (talk • contribs) 11:12, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It was recently nominated for deletion, because it was written from the perspective that vampire's were real, which is against policy.  To save the article, we had to delete the cruft and add some real world context.  See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Vampire (Buffyverse) for more info.    Paul  730 11:30, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Much of the removed material was incoherent lists of examples that we're well rid of.  —Tamfang (talk) 22:03, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Since the properties of Whedon vampires are drawn from folklore, some repetition is inevitable; but since Whedon picked'n'chose among the conflicting versions of vampires, one can't simply refer to Vampire.  I created this article because articles such as Master, Darla, Angel, Drusilla and Spike repeated each other about the powers and weaknesses of vampires. —Tamfang (talk) 04:29, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  ??? 

message: I have redirected this page as it not only deals with Buffy the Vampire Slayer, but with Angel and Fray as well. --Maurice45 (talk) 18:27, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, but they originated in BtVS.  It was decided "Buffyverse" wasn't an appropiate term on Wikipedia because it's fan slang.    Paul  730 20:45, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

text: I've reverted your edits for the reasons stated above.  Also, you didn't move the page properly, you just copied the info to the redirect page.  I'd also like to apologise for clicking the minor edit box when reverting you though, it was a slip of the finger, I know reverting isn't minor.    Paul  730 23:15, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Redirect 

message: The second paragraph of "Description" is rather a mix of this and that.  I once broke it into three or four paragraphs and someone reverted.  Any other ideas?  —Tamfang (talk) 04:36, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Per WP:PLOT, we only need a small amount of in-universe information to provide context for the real world info (the creation/development of the vampires by the writers/SFX artists).  Explaining vampire physiology in explicit detail as though they were real beings isn't necessary, so if the section is getting bloated, it probably needs trimmed, not expanded into subsections.   Paul  730 14:50, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'm not proposing expansion, nor addition of subheads.  —Tamfang (talk) 23:25, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  lumping vs splitting 

message: I removed several recent additions, particularly items that are supported by only one episode. —Tamfang (talk) 22:28, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  bloat 

message: I wonder what this phrase, recently added, means. —Tamfang (talk) 20:26, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  "fire or other burning" 

message: This whole page is confusing. Especially 'Vampires are shown to feel disdain and revulsion for the humans they shared a close or intimate bond with during life, such as friends or family.'. Which is not only badly written but completely untrue. Harmony being a big example. Lots42 (talk) 11:02, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, IIRC, they said the first thing they usually do when they become vampires is to kill they own family and other loved ones, and they get special pleasure from it. There are several examples in the series, the first one being Angel. Arny (talk) 12:19, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confusing 

message: Recent edits say that a vampire consists of a demonic soul inhabiting a dead body, prompting me to note that the evidence on whether vampires have souls is ambiguous.
Positive:
* In School Hard, a vampire proposes, "let the soul who kills her [Buffy] wear his [the Master's] mantle."
* In Living Conditions, Kathy steals pieces of Buffy's soul to disguise herself, because her species is distinctive even among demons in lacking souls.
Negative:
* In Double or Nothing, Angel offers to wager his soul. Jenoff: "How stupid do I look to you? You're a vampire. I can smell it from here."  Angel: "Take a bigger whiff. I'm a vampire with a soul."  Jenoff: "Oh. You're that vampire."
* Angel and then Spike are consistently described as having "souls", rarely if ever specifying "human souls".
—Tamfang (talk) 05:26, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  is there such a thing as a vampire soul? 

message: I'm trying to think of a case other than Clare when a vamp's clothing/accessories change when they "vamp out."  After transforming she got a choker, arm bands, gauntlets and some sort of legwear.  After being killed apparently everything but the gauntlets disappeared.  Confused. 70.160.228.188 (talk) 17:12, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Costume changes as part of the transformation 

message: I don't think this is right:
:Filtered or indirect sunlight does not cause injury to vampires. If protected from direct sunlight, vampires can be active in the middle of the day.
Riley once pushed Spike out the door of Buffy's house – onto the covered porch, not into direct sunlight – and Spike said "Let me in, I'm already starting to sizzle!"  On another occasion, unless I dreamt it, Spike (or another vampire) said something to suggest that to be outdoors even in the shade is painful unless the sun is low in the sky.  — In a separate issue, "filtered" is too broad: does it include polarization? Colored glass? —Tamfang 08:40, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I misremembered: Spike is in direct sunlight in that incident. —Tamfang (talk) 22:24, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

text: Well, during the entirety of Angel, Angel is shown walking through the office, which is basically covered with sunlight, although the blinds are halfway down.  Spike, precisely in the episode "In the Dark", and in some Buffy episodes, is shown in the shade, in mid-day.  My guess is, while indirect (such as through a regular window) sunlight MAY induce some pain, it doesn't necessarily harm the vampire.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.122.120.244 (talk) 19:24, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

text: There are many incidents of vampires going through indirect sunlight through normal windows. Seems a theme that older and powerful vampires can resist the sun easier but of course this is just my guess. In one incident, Spike was lying in shadows and sun got to his hand. It burst into flame. Lots42 (talk) 14:40, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Plot convenience! —Tamfang (talk) 06:51, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

text: I'd simply say they can tolerate daylight, but notsunlight... Arny (talk) 12:17, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  On one occasion in season 5 or 6, iirc, Buffy finds Spike loitering outdoors shortly before sunset; he says the indirect sunlight gives him mild pain. —Tamfang (talk) 06:51, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  indirect sunlight