Talk:Ultima (series)

message: I don't feel bold enough to do it without asking first, but I am a big fan of shorter articles, as this feels more Hypertext-like (and I've done this breaking down already on some other articles, like History of Croatia or Software Engineering). I would love to break this one down, and I will, if no one objects here for some days. --denny vrandečić 14:32, Nov 14, 2004 (UTC)
: Wholeheartedly seconded! I mean, Final Fantasy games have separate articles, why shouldn't Ultima games? =) The article is getting fairly gigantic, and I think there's already enough information for individual articles in the entries as they are (or at least as blurbs on main Ultima article, or article stubs). Now all we need is an intelligently-made edit of this stuff. There might be some breakage of linking, though; Initially, it'd be ideal to keep the existing section headers here and link to main articles from there, to avoid breaking anything at first. --Wwwwolf 23:40, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Seperate articles on the games

message: Actually, the term Avatar is from the Hindu religious faith, and while Hinduism is remarkably liberal in their acceptance of other religions (and other religious figures), the term Avatar is specific to a divine being that manifests in a special human form (in some cases, an animal form).  I do believe Richard Garriott was utilizing several myth motifs, such as might be read in Joseph Campbell's books on mythology and in D&D rulebooks that are optional additions (such as Unearthed Arcana) -- and not as a subtle religious motif.
Also, Richard has invited the assistance of brilliant, often devoted friends who have supplied ideas and material to his life and writings, so just as conversations and suggestions become a part of a person, so do they often become inextricably part of a game.
To be very specific and concise, I do not believe that Richard ever intended the Avatar to be a Christ figure, but to be a generalised fictional device showing that roleplaying games (like fantasy novels) don't have to be solely about killing and gaining treasure.  Roleplaying games can have other motifs and activities too.  This is not so much Christ-like as Human-like.  The function of religion and of art can be remarkably similar!
(Edit: I just wanted to add that I meant the drive of this to be that maybe it's being a little heavy handed to say The Avatar is inimical or similar to Christ, because it's not said that the Avatar is inimical or similar to Buddha, but rather what is conveyed by this fiction is similar in *structure* to Buddha's structured teachings.
:Well, in Christianity, Christ was God in human form--and this is interpreted in different ways. I think the main difference here between Christianity and some other religions is that Christianity thinks God can be represented in an absolute, single form. The Avatar is the God of the Ultima games (the player) and serves some of the same purpose of driving the story and redeeming everyone :) I don't think this was intentional but a result of Garriott trying to introduce religious symbolism into the game. I don't the symbolism taken from different religions is meant to represent one religion over the other, just provide a framework for the game and create a dialogue about the aims of religion. Look at my later post on this page about Christianity and Ultima, where I mention how some Christian symbolism was introduced. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.121.245.155 (talk) 20:37, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Richard Garriott explained this in detail in The Official Book of Ultima.  Hmm... take too long to explain and write everything out.  If you can find a copy of the book though, it is quite an interesting read. Dream Focus (talk) 15:07, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Avatar as Christ?

message: It merits mention that Ultima 6 was also the first to have cheating built into the game as an easter egg.  (sure, I'm bitter about it, ruined the series for me. :-b )
:That is because it was harder to edit the savegame files manually in Ultima VI and above. For Ultima V and under, it could be done easily with MS-DOS Edit, or debug for those who knew how to use it. It is necesary to be able to cheat when you do testing and debugging.--Sheng Long Gradilla 20:36, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Cheats

message: I'm pretty sure that the Ultima spell in the Final Fantasy games is not some kind of omage to the Ultima series (being that the Ulitma spell is the best possible spell in the game), but that it is just a shortened version of the word "Ultimate," since it is the ultimate spell in the game. It's an interesting coincidence but I dont' think that it is related to the Ultima series of games, as the Japanese version of the spell is different. - Anon 2/1/06
:You know, I've been wondering about this. Square's original development team, including Sakaguchi and Tanaka, were HUGE Ultima fans. In college, they'd stay up all night playing Ultima II, and it did, in fact, inspire them to become game designers. At least, that's according to a really old (1985) issue of a Japanese PC magazine called LOGiN when they interviewed Square's (then extremely small) development team. A lot of people say Final Fantasy is based off of Dragon Quest, but where did Dragon Quest get its tile-based overworld? Ultima, of course! :) --Tristam 15:02, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ultima in the Final Fantasy games

message: I propose that the information in this article be merge into this article as it violates WP:NOT the article Mongbat (Ultima) is a game guide. Gnangarra 13:31, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  merge Mongbat (Ultima) 

message: I put a box around the Ultima logo to reduce the empty space and balance the page.  From looking at the Final Fantasy page, I think that lengthening the introductory paragraph to two or three paragraphs and reducing the size of the graphic would do just as well.  Of course, that requires something to say. Brilliand 00:52, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ugly whitespace 

message: Seems that some anonymous user removed Ultima: Escape from Mt. Drash from the list of games, saying it was not related to the series. I put it back last night. I agree it's not strictly related to the series, but I still think it should be on the list, to avoid confusion and for the sake of completeness. (There's bound to be someone who runs into a reference to this game and wonders "I wonder how it's related to Ultima series?" I'm comfortable enough to tell "No, it's not really related per se, but it has an interesting story behind it" rather than "We refuse to discuss it, and you have to guess the rest". =) It is, after all, somehow related to the series in that it was a SquareEnixesque attempt at riding on the highly popular series' popularity. =) I mean, if we list other non-canonical titles (like Ultima Online), in my opinion we should have little trouble with Drash either. --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 08:05, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mt. Drash and other non-canonical material 

message: Hey there, I notice there's quite a bit of lists in the first section.  As per WP:NOT (a collection of lists) and WP:MOS someone really ought to change that into prose.  If no one gets it before I do, I'll do it when I have a moment.  Cheers ✎ Wizardry Dragon (Talk to Me) (My Contributions)  (Support Neutrality on Wikipedia) 00:09, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lists 

message: I just edited to add this, after the section where the article suggests that the three principles have something to do with the Wizard of Oz and right after it talks about Hinduism.
"The three principles are also linked in the game to the symbols of the bell (Bell of Courage), book (Book of Truth) and candle (Candle of Love), which are the objects that were expended in the Catholic excommunication ceremony. In general, the Ultima games take symbolism from many different religious and philosophical sources."
This is apparent when you go back to Ultima 4 and see all of the NPCs are named after religious or philosophical figures.
Its often assumed that Ultima is negative about Christianity, because in some ways the Fellowship in Ultima 7 may seem like a Christian organization, and Richard Garriott has had negative things to say about certain absolute Christian views; but it seems obvious that he respected the religious traditions, and Christian symbolism does show up in the game, as in the example I cited. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.121.245.155 (talk) 20:30, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Christianity and Ultima 

message: The following quote is from the article: "The creator, Richard Garriott, no longer owns the rights to the game, nor participates in the development, however he still owns the rights to several of the characters from the game. Due to this, it is impossible for either Richard Garriott or EA to create a new Ultima game without first getting permission from the other, which is unlikely."
Okay ... *why* is this unlikely? Maybe it is obvious to dedicated Ultima afficionadoes, but this conclusion isn't referenced and there is nothing else in this article that explains why there is no probability this will occur. Judging from an outsider's point of view (I played Ultimas II through IV back in the day, but am not up on any background lore about the creators) this does not seem very unlikely to me at all. So obviously, I'd like to know why. Perhaps the article should get into this a little bit, or if not, maybe remove this conclusion because it doesn't make any sense all on its own.--64.229.27.196 09:23, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Falling out between Garriott and EA? 

message: I added a mini-template to the game pages of Ultima I, VI and VII to get feedback on style from other editors. I feel the Ultima pages will be well served by something tying them together, but the more complete navbox is not as suitable for the game pages themselves, thus I made a small template linking to this article (to the right), and it is adjusted to fit snugly inside the VG navboxes. What do you think? Miqademus (talk) 17:42, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Use the series field instead. Also that fair use logo doesn't contribute to the articles in anyway. --Mika1h (talk) 17:54, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ultima mini-template 

message: If someone could find either the Japanese text names for the Ultima mangas or the ISBNs/AISNs, I could get one of my sellers to locate them & contribute information.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.161.122.193 (talk) 23:03, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Manga 

message: Hello, everyone. I have rewritten the overview section on my sandbox, so I'd like to know your opinion on it before I add it... I also reworked the navigation templates (scroll down the sandbox). --Koveras ☭ 23:12, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, since nobody cares, here goes... --Koveras ☭ 19:02, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rewrite 

message: It's been a while since I played number 8, but I had a different interpretation of the ending.
I thought the final cut scene was the avatar traveling to the Ethereal Void, where the Guardians true home was to take the battle there.  At the end of Serpent Isle the Avatar was cast into Pagen when he attempted to face the Guardian, and I thought the Avatar was returning to finish the job.  I guess we would know for sure if part 2 hadn't been canned.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.230.8.143 (talk) 21:10, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ultima 8 Ending 

message: I, like many fans, avidly picked up The Ultima Collection when it was first released. I still use it often, installing and uninstalling Ultima's when the mood for playing a particular one takes me. (even though when it comes to playing Ultima IV I'd rather play the SMS port, but whatever...)
I've used this cd with not a single problem on Windows 2000, ME, and XP. It works perfectly well. SO what's the deal? It doesn't work but it does on mine? Explanations? General kaiden (talk) 22:42, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ultima Collection won't work on later windows? 

message: Part of the article seems to suggest they included the cloth maps to prevent anyone from making illegal copies of the game, because you needed it to complete the game.  This is nonsense.  Richard Garriott stated he just wanted a cloth map, a manual, and a box, as opposed to games being sold in zip lock bags with some printed out pages.  He said so in an interview on the G4TV television series Icons, as well as in the official book of Ultima.  Sierra was the only company at that time willing to do this, so he went with them for Ultima 2.  And I believe you could get a list of coordinates to navigate by, without needing a map, and I remember some Ultima games having a map in game you could click on and look at on your screen.  To prevent pirating, Ultima 7 would ask you at two separate occasions what was written in the manual, and if you didn't have the manual to look it up, all the characters would run from you and say only "Oink Oink", thus making the game unplayable. Dream Focus (talk) 14:46, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I changed it, adding two references, proving the map had nothing to do with anti-piracy.  It also shows just how the Ultima games evolved that characteristic, and reshaped the gaming industry forever, others following their lead. Dream Focus (talk) 15:05, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  The cloth map was not there to prevent pirating 

message: I found it odd that this article does not include a section on Ultima's impact/influence on later CRPGs. This was actually why I came to read the article because I keep running across other articles (on Wiki and elsewhere on the web) which cite Ultima as major contributor to some aspect of what they are talking about. I know, from my own experience, that Ultima V was a huge influence on the games I began writing at the start of the '90s, and I was interested to see how it affected others as well. Anyone(s) who can pick out all those influences and stick it into a coherent section of the article would be greatly appreciated by me (and I assume others). :) — al-Shimoni (talk) 08:20, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: According to Richard Garriott in interviews done on G4TV's Icons and elsewhere, games originally were sold in zip lock bags, he insisting on a box and a map, etc, and that eventually became standard.  Dream Focus 18:22, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Influence 

message: Parts of the Virtues of Ultima article have been merged with this one.  You can see the article as it was before it started getting hacked down in preparation for the merge at .  If you see any additional information that should be merged over here, or elsewhere, feel free to do so.  Dream Focus 18:22, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Virtues of Ultima

message: Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar should be here somewhere. Lacon432 (talk) 18:27, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I added it to the template.  I notice Lords of Ultima isn't listed here either.  Both games were made after Richard Garriott left, so are just cashing in off the Ultima name, not really part of the series.  Dream Focus 10:21, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that's a biased way of looking at things... Although I personally do agree that Garriott's involvement is what made the series, Lord of Ultima and Ultima Forever are still both "official" Ultima games by virtue of their use of the title, which EA now rightfully owns (much to my disappointment). I've added them both into the article. Fan.of.devin (talk) 16:43, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quest for the Avatar 

message: There were actually two anti-piracy methods.  The first was the unformatted track; which didn't cause you to lose every fight, but instead made it so every attack would state that the target was 'Lightly Wounded' but it would never say anything else.
The second method was two key sectors on the disk were copy-protected, and would end up with all bits set to 00.  This caused these squares on the map to be deep ocean.  The two areas are at the entrance to Empath Abbey, and where the Skull of Mondain remains.
Slaapliedje (talk) 23:56, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Speaking of which, I wasn't successful able to verify the citation. The version of the book on Internet Archive didn't produce matches on possible keywords, such as "German", "track", "protect", "copy", and a few others. --Sigma 7 (talk) 01:14, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Atari 8-Bit Anti-Piracy methods. 

message: I notice some edit warring going on.  Shroud of the Avatar is about the Avatar, it has Lord British in it, and its made by the creator of the Ultima games.  So yes, it has everything to do with the Ultima series.  Dream Focus 14:27, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  shroud of the Avatar 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: It looks like a fragment of something removed. AngusCA (talk) 13:49, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  So where's this db w/the plot cuts to Serpent Isle? 

message: Are sales figures available for any of the titles? It wasn't the fashion to release sales figures back then, but it would be incredibly useful to know how much each copy sold. The series spanned a couple of decades during the transition from 8-bit micros to PC compatibles and would be a useful baseline. Unfortunately pinning down absolute sales figures is maddeningly hard. -Ashley Pomeroy (talk) 17:37, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sales Figures 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The caption beneath the Ultima logo reads, "The most commonly used logo in the series," however, this is inaccurate. The logo that is displayed appears to be based on the logo from the original Apple II game, however the most commonly used Ultima logo is the redesigned logo first used in Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar, and continued for most subsequent games. A detailed logo history which shows that various logo redesigned and which games they were used on can be seen here. TheAlmightyGuru (talk) 20:43, 1 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ultima Logo 

message: Animal Crossing: New Horizons will see the return of the Museum, and there is an imminent Direct focusing on the new game which will provide players with lots of official info for the first time since September 2019 (via Resetera).
This announcement about the Museum has arrived by way of the official companion guide for the game, which has recently gone live for pre-orders ahead of New Horizons’ launch. It also confirms that there will be a department store managed by Timmy and Tommy. Presumably, Tom Nook is getting to grips with his latest venture into international commercial tourism, and the apprentices have more than proven themselves in previous games. The description of the product follows:
Bicuki.Com
    “Get Acclimatized
        We’ll get you settled in on your new island home as quickly as possible. Our useful primers will get you oriented and informed on everything a new resident needs to know.
    Create Your Paradise
        The sea’s the limit when it comes to customizing your island— you just need the right tools and a little guidance (…and maybe a bit of insider information for playing the stalk market). You’ll find all of this here, and more: every tool and app is explained and our tips for design and money making are not to be missed!
    Discover and Explore
        Museum lovers will be in for a treat—as long as you’re willing to be the one providing the exhibits! It’s a hands-on approach to preservation, and every budding naturalist or palaeontologist needs a solid reference book to consult. You won’t find a single specimen that’s not covered here.
    Shop Till You Drop
        Your island wouldn’t be much of a paradise without decent shopping facilities. Luckily, Timmy and Tommy’s retail experience brings a wealth of desirable goods for purchase. Every last option for the fashionista or interior decorator is lavishly catalogued.
    Stunning Photography
        Want to see some of the hottest island destinations that have already found their feet, built a community and began attracting high-volume tourism? We’ve discovered some true gems and arranged photo shoots that are sure to provide plenty of inspiration for building the island of your dreams.
    Special Bonuses
        Fans of Animal Crossing will be delighted with the high quality bookmarks we’ve included—one side features beautiful character artwork, and the other is filled with useful info. We’ve also created an online calendar for keeping track of events on the island and making sure you never miss a resident’s birthday!”
We saw bug-hunting, excavating, and fishing in various sneak peeks of gameplay, but it wasn’t known whether the fruits of the player’s labours would be bartered or curated. The Museum has been present in every entry in the series bar Animal Forest, but because New Horizons is a departure from the norm, its return was not secure. With this new information, we could expect the island’s Museum to be run by Blathers, with Celeste manning the gift shop. Perhaps each player’s gift shop will have different stock depending on the exhibition spaces they want to create. That would be a sweet souvenir collected when friends drop by different islands, but we don’t know if that’s the case. Yet.
There will be a Direct on February 20 dedicated to the cutesy life sim. Interested parties will receive an “in-depth” appraisal of what’s in store for New Horizons, and the 25-minute presentation will begin at 9.00am ET / 2.00pm GMT.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gamebx (talk • contribs) 03:21, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:   The Museum returns in Animal Crossing: New Horizons, as per official companion guide