Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Orthodox Judaism/Archive2

message: I have reworded and touched up the introduction so that there will not be complaints that this WikiProject is keeping anyone out, because theoretically, since Wikipedia is a secular encyclopedia, anyone can join any WikiProject just as anyone is free to edit any article at any time regardless of their faith etc. This should be a self-evident truth on Wikipedia and should not require further elaboration. IZAK 08:09, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: what does this project do that WikiProject Judaism doesn't do?  Jon513 17:16, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In some ways, while sympathising with the needs of this Wikiproject, I agree with the need for User:Jon513 question. IZAK 09:55, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

text: You honestly think I would put sugar into cholent and desecrate it? In fact I don't know of anyone who does, it's just lashon hara against Ashkenazim (I have heard rumors that some put a few pitted prunes into their cholent to sweeten it, but I haven't seen it in a mighty long time.) By now, with Israeli culture and Israeli cuisine being so all-pervasive in the Jewish world (religious and secular) everyone I know, even the most Hasidic of Hasidim, love pepper, cumin, garlic, and as much salt as the doctor allows (usually way more) in thick spicy cholents. Anyhow, my family members have forbidden me to make my kind of cholent with lot's of pepper and a bay leaf or two on top (never eat bay leaves -- they cause stomach upset, so never crush them and remove them before serving). Gotta go, dreamin' of cholent. IZAK 10:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ugh.  I got this awful récipé for "chunt" from a friend of mine, replete with chocolate and sugar and it was the worst shabath meal I'd ever had.  B"H it rotted by the time shabath was over so I didn't feel bad about throwing it out.  I'll stick with jamín anyday.  :-)  Tomertalk 05:54, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Introduction

message: An attempt by anti-Israeli leftists to put a POV tag to 'Israel'. Please vote (against). --Daniel575 18:23, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Daniel, this sort of entreaty is completely inappropriate, even here.  Inviting comment or participation is fine, but telling people how to vote is completely unacceptable.  Please review this again.  Cheers, Tomertalk 07:32, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, I'm sorry, how could I forget to keep in mind all of those frumme yidden who would vote in support of the POV tags. I think you're exaggerating the rules slightly. --Daniel575 07:48, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Look, lose the chip on your shoulder.  If you're so sure of how people here will vote, there's no need to tell us how you want us to vote.  Telling people how to vote is incredibly bod foam.  Tomertalk 08:10, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Would any of us here vote in support of those POV tags? Sigh. I do not understand what your problem is, with this. --Daniel575 08:14, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't be any clearer about "[my] problem with this".  If you want to elicit input from editors, fine.  If you even want to tell them to vote, fine.  Telling editors how to vote, however, is completely out of line, even if your desired vote and their assumed vote are completely clear.  To bash a hole through the density you're portraying, just in case it's real and not feigned, what I'm referring to specifically is your "(against)".  I have no problem with anything else you wrote in that post [although I'm having an increasingly annoyed reaction to your "I'm right, so just shut up" attitude in subsequent posts...], just the absolute direction of exactly how the reader is supposed to vote.  Tomertalk 08:20, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

text: You could also find something more useful to get so worked up about. --Daniel575 08:48, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How about instead of lecturing me about how to spend my time, you learn how WP works.  Thanks.  Tomertalk 23:15, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Yes, please let's.  Tomertalk 06:10, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Leftists trying to put POV tag on '[[Israel]]'

message: It's pretty inconsistent now. Puppa (Hasidic dynasty) uses transliteration, while Spinka (Hasidic dynasty) uses English translations of the names. I say we should modify them all to the Hebrew versions. Then we get the question on how to write a A/O... Avraham or Avrohom, Yitzchak, Yitzchok? I vote for the latter. --Daniel575 12:00, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My constructive reaction to your vote is *gag* *hack* *splutter*, whereupon I turn blue in the face and go looking for a bubbler.  Tomertalk 18:17, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My somewhat more constructive recommendation is to direct you here and here.  I found them both on my way to the bubbler.  I'm feeling much better now too, in case you were wondering...  Tomertalk 18:20, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Easy on the WP:NPA. The proposed policy was absolutely not accepted. I, for one, oppose several points contained therein. Besides, there is a very strong argument that "Loshon Ashkenazis" be used for all things Hasidic Chassidische zachen. - CrazyRussian talk/email 18:37, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I mean, being a descriptive encyclopedia, surely we're not going to impose Tiberian diacritics on an article about "Puppa", for which it would be foreign? - CrazyRussian talk/email 18:39, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Correct. Tomer, I don't want to insult you, but you are a Conservative Jew. That does not disqualify you from participating in anything here. Please do not see this as an insult. However, it is simply a fact that a non-orthodox and even a modern-orthodox person will not easily understand the issues involved here. These people have never been called 'Avraham' - they have always been called 'Avrohom'. We are not talking about Israeli soldiers here. We are talking about Yiddish-speaking chassidishe Rebbes from Eastern Europe. Many of whom belong to movements which are in many cases fiercely anti-Zionist and fiercely opposed to 'Modern Hebrew', aka 'Ivrit'. Israelifying their names is a big insult. Why should 'Ivrit' be the standard, retroactively even? These are not Sefardim, not Israelis, not Ivrit-speakers. Then why do you want to posthumously alter the pronunciation of their names? --Daniel575 20:06, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Daniel, with all due respect, you don't know thing one about me besides what you can read on my user page.  Nowhere on that page do I ever identify myself as Conservative, so lay off the condescension.  Regarding Hebrew, I don't speak "Ivrit" any more than I speak "Ivris", rather, I speak `Ivriþ.  I have not proposed anywhere that any spelling should be preferred, nor that anyone's names should be altered posthumously.  I gagged because I personally find Ashkenazi Hebrew, especially some forms of Litvish, to be really unpleasant on the ear (to say nothing of unintelligible).  That, btw, CR, is not a personal attack.  It's not particularly constructive, but there's no attack in it anywhere.  As for the links I provided, they were not meant to serve as a guideline for what "should" be done, but rather to point out that there has been a great deal of [sometimes] constructive [sometimes frivolous bickering] discussion on the issue.  I vehemently opposed IZAK's recommendations when he first made them on the attempt at standardization page, as you can read there.  I have no argument with having the article for the Besht at Yisroil ben Eliezer, but I would caution against the assumption that everyone coming along is going to look under Yisroil instead of either Israel or Yisrael [or Yisra'el in my case], so I recommend two scoops of redirects.  Tomertalk 23:54, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oy vey... I took you as gagging at Dan's opinion. And as a proud speaker of Litvish, phooey on you! - CrazyRussian talk/email 23:09, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have never seen the spelling 'Yisroil' anywhere. That's Arabic. Well, 'Israil'. Not quite the same as Yiddish. I agree about the redirects: we need a lot of redirects for most pages.  --Daniel575 07:39, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Spelling names

message: The Bobover names make no sense now.
These are in English:
* Samuel David Halberstam
* Solomon Halberstam (The First)
* Solomon Halberstam (The Second)
These are Hebrew:
* Yechezkel Shraga Halberstam
* Yekusiel Yehudah Halberstam
* Zvi Elimelech Halberstam
For clarity, I am moving the first three to respectively Shmuel and Shlomo. If anyone objects, please discuss. --Daniel575 10:02, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, Shleimi, please.  Tomertalk 23:09, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What is this supposed to mean? --Daniel575 23:14, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "Shleimi" is one [of many] Eastern Yiddish pronunciations of שלומו.  How to make that any clearer is beyond my ken.  Tomertalk 06:08, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not understand what value that remark has in this discussion. Are you trying to make constructive edits or are you just trolling me? That's what it seemed like. --Daniel575 07:24, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It was meant purely in jest.  TIA.  Tomertalk 07:46, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The two Shlomos are the only Bobover Rebbes on this list. Ruv Tzvi Elimelech and Ruv Shmuel Duvid are current day Sanz Klausenberger Rebbes. Yechezkel Shraga and Yekusiel yehudoh were from the 19th and 20th centuries, respectivlly. They were also Sanzer and Sanz Klausenberger rebbes. Shaul avrom 01:41, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Spelling of Bobover/Sanzer Rebbes Names

message: Everybody. I just got back from Maariv+kinnos and learning 1,5 hours of Midrash Rabba Eichah with the Rov (Rav Avraham Yitzchak Ulman). Looking forward to a good night's sleep (considering that I slept 4 hours the past nights due to stress resulting from my engagement), davening in the morning and sleeping my way through the rest of the fast until shekiah. Now let's get back to 'work'. I think it's time we get to do some work on the Tisha b'Av article, as well as on those of other significant days. I am particularly thinking about adding sections on plain halacha regarding these days. I recently wrote two whole articles on Kiddush and on Havdala on the Dutch Wikipedia, basically slightly adapted modifications of a small book which I wrote in Dutch, summarizing 'The Radiance of Shabbos' in Dutch. Any proposals? --Daniel575 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Have an easy fast

message: Please take a look at Modern attempts to revive the Sanhedrin and the discussion page there and participate. --Daniel575 21:59, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Modern attempts to revive the Sanhedrin]]

message: Newly created page. Please add anything you know. --Daniel575 10:00, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Zalman Nechemia Goldberg]]

message: Hi, noticed that a number of Messianic Judaism folks have become involved in a bunch of articles including Messianism, The Third Temple, and Shekhinah, and Korbanot (although the korbanot edit, which was essentially a proslytizing essay, had been reverted at last look) and are presenting POVs similar to ones we saw in the edit controversy over Passover. in which Jewish and Christian concepts are treated as identical and a claim that in Christianity the concept the article described had been superceded by Jesus led to a discourse on Christian concpets whose relevance appears to me to be questionable. Perhaps some of the existing articles should be looked at periodically to ensure that the POV presented as a traditional Jewish one is in fact a traditional Jewish one. Best, --Shirahadasha 04:22, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, I'll take a look also. --Daniel575 | (talk) 11:29, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Messianic Jewish POVs

message: I understand there is an official policy for how Hebrew terms should be transliterated, Wikipedia: Naming conventions (Hebrew), which requires modern Sephardic Hebrew as well as apostrophes in certain places. A number of articles -- Chanuyos comes to mind -- are titled in Ashkenazic Hebrew and would need to be renamed, and vast numbers of articles have various words in variant transliterations. There had been a previous discussion about carving out an exception, e.g. for Ashkenazic individual and place names, but this exception doesn't seem to have made its way into the policy. --Shirahadasha 16:35, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Never been accepted, never will be, I for one enthusiastically oppose. - CrazyRussian talk/email 16:39, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, I get this is a draft not a final policy, edited and added a clarifying sentence to the intro with the word 'DRAFT' in it. Best, --Shirahadasha 02:11, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Crazy Russian --Shaul avrom 00:00, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: FYI a recent edit on Wikipedia Talk: Naming conventions (Hebrew)#Official Policy suggests theres's been an impression that everyone's been heard and nobody's objected, might be useful to reply and offer an opinion if there are concerns that haven't been met. --Shirahadasha 01:39, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks - posted there. - CrazyRussian talk/email 02:40, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

text:  :_( A tear for Chanuyos. - CrazyRussian talk/email 02:42, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Transliteration conventions for Hebrew

message: Hello. It turns out there have been two parallel attempts to devise a standard method of transliterating  Hebrew, Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Hebrew) and WP:Hebrew. It has been proposed to merge them. The WP:Hebrew approach seems considerably more academic than the other, with a strong emphasis on scholarly phoneticism including a proposed requirement to use the International Phonetic Alphabetic and to mention Tiberian Hebrew pronunciation, and what appears to be a rule against the use of standard English transliterations. Mercy on us poor ignoramuses, who merely want to know how to look up a Hebrew/Jewish subject in an English-language encyclopedia. Feel free to weigh in. Best, --Shirahadasha 19:46, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal to merge  into [[WP:Hebrew]]

message: I've created a timeline which shows Zugot>Tanaim>etc>acharonim. Now I need help turning it into a template. I want to be able to insert a name, year of birth and year of death into the template and come out with a bit of perspective (or whatever). If anyone can give me a hand, PLEASE let me know. AyinYud 09:14, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anyone know how to create templates? 

message: I am soon going to be banned for the rest of my life. I am leaving with a clean heart, knowing that I fought the Zionists as much as I could, until my last minute on Wikipedia. (This may make people smile and wonder whether I'm on drugs, but no, I am completely serious.) See my talk page. The issues involved took place recently on Neturei Karta and HaEdah HaCharedis. See you later, and shana tova. --Daniel575 | (talk) 23:07, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, guess what, I'm still here. My next project is to turn 'Peace be upon him' into an accurate article also representing the Jewish view. In fact, since Hebrew and Judaism are older than Arabic and Islam, alav hasholom should be placed before the Arabic version, and the Judaism template before the Islam template. If anybody else would like to join in, please do. --Daniel575 | (talk) 09:54, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Goodbye everybody

message: is up for deletion. FYI, ebverybody. - CrazyRussian talk/email 18:14, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Rabbi Pasternak]] 

message: Please add your learned comments whether Halakha LeMoshe MiSinai should be part of the Oral Torah article or not. See the discussions at Talk:Oral Torah#Defining Halakha LeMoshe MiSinai. Thank you. IZAK 08:49, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Defining Halakha LeMoshe MiSinai 

message: NEW: On Wikiversity there is now a "Jewish Studies School." Will it become a "duplication" of many things on Wikipedia? What should it's goals and functions be? Please add your learned views.  Thank you. IZAK 09:05, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jewish WIKIVERSITY 

message: Rescued from prod. Please improve. - CrazyRussian talk/email 04:09, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[P'tcha]] 

message: For anyone with an interest in all the articles about the Hebrew Bible; Tanakh, Torah and related subjects, User:FDuffy, who is very serious and devoted to the Biblical criticism POV (by his own admission he is a "third year theology student"), has recently resumed serious editing of Hebrew Bible articles and subjects. Please see the extensive edits via Contributions/FDuffy Your involvement, responses and edits would be important at this juncture, especially if you are capable of adding material from classical Judaic sources since most of these articles are lacking the teachings of Judaism, their obvious true source. Thank you. IZAK 11:54, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edits by User:Fduffy to Hebrew Bible articles and topics 

message: Hi: I posted the following at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Eastern Orthodoxy#"Orthodoxy" alone is ambiguous. Thank you. IZAK 03:06, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello: This message deals with a number of issues stemming from the unclear use of the word "Orthodox" and "Orthodoxy." In the past Wikipedia has tried to avoid confusion between the names of Orthodox Judaism and Eastern Orthodox Christianity by not using the word "Orthodox" or "Orthodoxy" alone in titles when other qualifying words, such as "Church" or "Christian" (in the case of Eastern Christian Orthodoxy) or words such as "Synagogue" or "Jewish" (in the case of Orthodox Judaism, would help to qualify the usage of the name "Orthodox" or "Orthodoxy" so that any reader or editor on Wikipedia should not be confused by a title and should know from an article's or category's name whether that subject deals with either Orthodox Judaism or Eastern Orthodox Christianity (also called Orthodox Christianity). In the past there has been no objection to inserting either "church" or "Christian/ity" where the Eastern Orthodox Church articles or categories are concerned and I have tried to move in this direction. It is for this reason that I have made the nominations to rename the ambiguous categories at Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 September 14#Orthodox Christian categories. Yet it seems that some editors are not aware of this and I am bringing this to your attention. I will cross-post this message to Wikipedia:WikiProject Orthodox Judaism and to Wikipedia:WikiProject Judaism for further discussion. The implications for Wikipedia:WikiProject Eastern Orthodoxy is that it too should be renamed to Wikipedia:WikiProject Eastern Orthodox Church or Wikipedia:WikiProject Eastern Orthodox Christianity to avoid any confusion with Wikipedia:WikiProject Orthodox Judaism. Sincerely, IZAK 02:58, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conflicting names with Christian and Jewish Orthodoxy 

message: Please see: Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2006 September 19#Liozna and Larger than Life (books). Thank you. IZAK 06:41, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deletion review: Liozna and Larger than Life (books) 

message: BS"D
L'shonoh tovoh sikoseivu v'sichosemu, ah shonoh tovoh u'mesukoh, and A gut Year. Have a great 5767.
--Shaul avrom 10:36, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  L'shonoh Tovoh 

message: Ashkenazi Hebrew completely ignores the Chasidic version, with kubutz/shuruk as "ee", tzeirei as "ay", kamatz as "oo", terminal kamatz as "eh", etc. Should we add it into this article or should we create a new one? Leshana tova tikoseivu, everybody. - CrazyRussian talk/email 15:26, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: CR:  Variants should definitely be incorporated into the Ashkenazi Hebrew article.  Something else that would be a good inclusion is if someone could find information about the relationship between vowel shifts in Yiddish as they relate to vowel shifts in Ashkenazi Hebrew...if anyone has ever done such a study...  Tomertalk 00:04, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Ashkenazi Hebrew]] 

message: Hi: Could you please take a look at the discussion concerning Conceptual backround: Hasidic dynastic disputes in the Barry Gurary article. See Talk:Barry Gurary#Dispute of content. Thanks. IZAK 03:48, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Barry Gurary article 

message: User:Fduffy has made extensive edits to the Korban article, including, in typical fashion, citing the Jewish Encyclopedia as a whole without bothering to identify a specific article, and adding a provocative section entitled "Human Sacrifice" claiming a dark origin in human sacrifice based on the views of a single individual (assuming the individual actually said it) characterized as fact and as what "Biblical scholars" as a whole believe. I'm going to wait to comment myself until I've had a chance to review this user's claims, but perhaps others might want to comment now. At the very least, biblical-criticism type claims should go in a separate section. Best, --Shirahadasha 20:45, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent edits to Korban 

message: We are talking about the following section here.
::The official position held by the Edah, established by its past President and Chief Rabbi Joel Teitelbaum in his book Vayoel Moshe, includes rules not to accept any money from the government, nor to accept Israeli citizenship through the Law of Return. Since those who convert through the Edah are required to follow Halacha and according to the view held by the Edah the above rules are absolute Halacha, the Edah will only convert people who are willing to abide by their view of Halacha which includes a ban on accepting money from the Israeli government. 
I wrote this section a few months ago. Then already, Meshulam attacked me, repeatedly removing this section, calling it 'OR' and 'unverifiable'. I maintain that no 'verification' is needed. EVERYONE knows that the Edah keeps by Vayoel Moshe. I am getting sick, completely sick of Meshulam's rule-pushing. His sick urge to keep pressing for idiotic rules to the extremes, thereby seriously damaging the quality of articles, is very disturbing. I would like to see the opinion of others on this issue. --Daniel575 | (talk) 11:01, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: To clarify: I did not attack anyone.  The text in question is original research, inasmuch as the one offering the text cannot demonstrate its veracity through any source other than his own personal experience. That's textbook OR. Its not "pressing idiotic rules to the extremes." (To say nothing for the fact that Daniel575 just called a Wikipedia policy and "idiotic rule"). In my own defense, I try to be civil with Daniel575, and you will see if you peruse some of our conversations that I have kept my cool despite the fact that he has called me a number of names and even called for my "immediate destruction," (whatever that means). I am not interested in an argument. I am interested in standards of quality as they have been established by the Admins here at WP. --Meshulam 15:36, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Meshulam on [[HaEdah HaCharedis]]

message: Hello, I've been trying to separate out this article into Jewish and Christian sections. One of the issues is how to present the illustration that's currently at the beginning of the article. I think of the illustration as a Christian interpretation given the general Jewish reluctance to illustrate such things, but I am not clear. Does anyone have an opinion whether the illustration belongs at the beginning (in the Judaism section) or in the Christianity section? Please comment on Talk:Merkabah if you have an opinion. Thanks, --Shirahadasha 04:22, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Merkabah]] article 

message: *Aaron Hart started by me
*Great Synagogue of London in a lot of trouble
- crz crztalk 04:15, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Lawrence Kelemen - crz crztalk 13:32, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New articles 

message: User:Shirahadasha has created an new article called "Open Orthodoxy" - about a new notion (that is "neither fish nor fowl") recently coined by Rabbi Avi Weiss. After having been asked about it, I attempted to redirect Open Orthodoxy to the Avi Weiss article and post all its content there because on it's own it's a neologism in violation of Wikipedia:Avoid neologisms, but Shirahadasha has reverted my redirect. What do you think should be done, please add your views at Talk:Open Orthodoxy. IZAK 09:26, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Open Orthodoxy" & Avi Weiss 

message: jewish population as an article and many of the articles on jewish communities worldwide are certainly a very well covered area. I am wanting to make these changes after nearly three years of having noticed it, I've not been much of an editor until now. Put it this way, the term is definitely no a good encyclopedic title. I ask you reconsider your view from a vantage point. I am not belittling the longstanding editors grammatical abilities. Clearly the way things work here on wikipedia permits these blind spots... meaning the way things start is the way things continue and issues such as this stark point aren't even obvious anymore. Think about this, other ethnic groups on wikipedia are reffered to as 'people/s' such as 'Roma people', which just wouldn't work here; ' 'Jewish People' just wouldn't sound right, so why do we have the current titles we have now? The answer is the JewWatch phenomenon which caused a backlash and Jewish people to redirect to Jew, where as Roma People does not lead to gypsy etc. World Jewry is the most common term outside of wikipedia to describe jewish population content. 
I propose to move jewish population to World Jewry, and to title all the articles on Jewish communities as e.g. British Jewry instead of British Jews.
Chavatshimshon 23:37, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[World Jewry]]

message: Improve away. - crz crztalk 18:09, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps somebody wants to translate it and put that translation in the article? In small script, I suppose. --Daniel575 | (talk) 22:30, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New article: [[Akdamus]] 

message: On 25 October 2006 , User:Inigmatus moved Messianic religious practices to Messianic Halakha with the lame excuse "moved Messianic religious practices to Messianic Halakha: As discussed in prior archives, with the creation of the new Messianic Judaism template, this page can now be targeted for clean up: This entire page is better split into two articles"  thus opening up a whole new can of worms. This fits into this new pattern of vigorous pro-Messianic Judaism POV edits, moves, categories, projects and articles, basically without warning and ignoring the consensus that has been maintained for some time. The main problem is that the over-all thrust of the recent pro-Messianic Judaism activity is to mimic and and get as close as possible to any and all Judaism, particularly Orthodox Judaism, articles and efforts, so that anyone looking at the one will arrive at the other by sheer proximity and similarity. And I repeat this again, because of its relevance: *User:Inigmatus (contributions), self-described as "A mystery user with a point to be made" (wouldn't that make anything he does as automatically POV?), has added a number of features to Messianic Judaism. A month ago he evidently plagiarized  the  Template:Judaism and created Template Messianic Judaism based on it. He also created Wikipedia:WikiProject Messianic Judaism also obviously  plagiarizing the Wikipedia:WikiProject Judaism page. This may mislead unsuspecting readers and there ought to be some warning or guidance about this. I would suggest that a new template be develpoed that would be placed on Messianic Judaism pages with a  "Note: This article deals with Messianic Judaism. It does not represent normative Judaism and does not have any connection with, or official recognition from, any Jewish denominations." IZAK 03:47, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Note: The subject of this article or section does not represent normative Judaism and does not have any connection with, or official recognition from, any Jewish denominations.
Feel free to use it where applicable. Thanks. IZAK 05:31, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Messianic "Halakha" etc? 

message: Hi: In view of the above, please see the new  template:
:Note: The subject of this article or section does not represent normative Judaism and does not have any connection with, or official recognition from, any Jewish denominations.
Feel free to use it where applicable. Thanks. IZAK 05:31, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Welcome the NotJudaism template 

message: Names of God in Judaism has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" from featured status. The instructions for the FAR process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. Sandy (Talk) 22:13, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Names of God in Judaism]]

message: Written from scratch and reposted by me after several A7 G11 G12 deletions. Please improve. Especially outside sources would be good. - crz crztalk 17:05, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Gonna be in the next DYK. I am pleased. - crz crztalk 18:32, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New: [[B&H Photo Video]] 

message: Given the article Conservative Halakha, should there be an Orthodox Halakha article? Perhaps it might give a  spectrum of philosphies and approaches within Orthodoxy, perhaps outlining how different approaches have resulted in different views on a couple of key issues, with the Orthodox section on Halakha becoming a summary pointing to the main article. --Shirahadasha 09:44, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Orthodox Halakha]] article?

message: The current organization there is abit muddled, and needs some discussing how to deal with. A general proposal for cleaning it up is posted at Category talk:Religious leaders#Organization proposal, and more input would be great. It doesn't address the issue of Religious leaders/religious workers/religious figures, but that is another issue that exists. Badbilltucker 22:08, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[:Category:Religious leaders]] 

message: I'd like to join this WikiProject. I know that normally, all that entails is putting my name in the directory, but there were no instructions. I'd also like to propose an idea that I've been thinking about for awhile: Perhaps, for each Hasidic Dynasty (though there is no reason this idea should be limited to Hasidic Dynasties), someone could translate a portion of a book that represents the dynasty on the page as a sort of representative teaching/soundbyte. This works especially well if there is a single book (or series of books) the solidifies a group's ideology (like Tanya for Chabad, or Shomer Emunim for Toldos Aharon/Shomer Emunim, Likkutei Moharan, etc.). For other groups, even excerpting something from a parashah that expresses an idea uniquely tied to that group would work. --Meshulam 23:32, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Would like to join/Have idea. 

message: Nice!! :) - crz crztalk 14:22, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New article: [[Jason Bedrick]] 

message: - crz crztalk 18:57, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I moved it to Aharon Leib Steinman. --DLandTALK 19:23, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wrong: The article already exists at Aharon Shteinman. Thanks. IZAK 01:51, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, I didn't realize that existed. But regardless, it should be moved back to Aharon Leib Steinman, per a Google search. I don't know any better way to decide on this, seeing as Steinman and Shteinman are equally "correct." --DLandTALK 02:16, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New article: [[Aron Leib Steinman]] 

message: Wikipedia:WikiProject Religion
FYI: Hi Tomer! A Wikipedia:WikiProject Religion has asserted itself in the Korban article. The project indicates that it is an umbrella project for all of religion and that the current religion projects are subprojects of it, yet its member directory lists only six members. Where is the project coming from? Is it a broadbased project, a very small group with a very big reach, or what? If you know some background or some of its people, would be much appreciated. Best, --Shirahadasha 03:56, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia:WikiProject Religion 

message: Hi: Please see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Religion#Judaism. Thanks, IZAK 10:34, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: NOTICE and OBJECTIONS to WikiProject Religion vs. Judaism

message: Hi: It is very important that you see the points and the response from User:Badbilltucker about his aims at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism#NOTICE and OBJECTIONS to WikiProject Religion vs. Judaism ASAP. Have a Happy Chanukah! IZAK 15:50, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Response to NOTICE and OBJECTIONS to WikiProject Religion vs. Judaism 

message: Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 18:42, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia Day Awards 

message: Question: What should be the name for the Shalosh Regalim: the Three pilgrim festivals or the Three pilgrimage festivals? Please see the discussion at Talk:Three pilgrimage festivals#Name. Thanks you. IZAK 17:01, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Three pilgrim festivals" vs. "Three pilgrimage festivals" 

message: New article. Please pitch in to rescue from deletion. - crz crztalk 23:33, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm in. --Chussid 00:17, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Avrohom Eliyahu Kaplan]] 

message: DLand: I went through a lot of his edits, read his motivations for joining, read IZAK's concerns, and completely agree with IZAK. The guy is not Jewish, is totally not interested in Orthodox Judaism. Why do you want him listed as a member? There should be membership rules. Having a serious involvement with Judaism and most importantly, actively editing Judaism-related articles would be a prerequisite for joining. Non-Jews are not excluded, of course - take Bsnowball as an example. He is not Jewish but does know what he is talking about, and he is actively involved in editing Judaism-related articles. Please share your thoughts here. --Chussid 00:17, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Irrespective of how I feel about Badbilltucker, anyone is free to join the WikiProject. That's just how it works in this WikiProject and every WikiProject out there as well. It doesn't mean that I "want him listed as a member" - it's just that you can't just remove someone from the member list without that user's consent. Best, DLandTALK 00:27, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: BadBillTucker

message: I am somewhat bemused to see the article about the village/shtetl Lyubavichi listed as a new article relevant to Orthodox Judaism. By the same token should we list here every article about the geography of a shtetl in Europe once occupied by Jews?  --Redaktor 12:37, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, it made me wonder also. --Chussid 12:48, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So delist it, big deal. Only the frume care. Thousands of similarly-sized villages don't have any representation on en: or ru:wiki. - crz crztalk 12:54, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I always thought it was a town/city? --Chussid 12:58, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe it's puny to non-existent. - crz crztalk 13:15, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

text: See, hewiki and yiwiki have articles. the bigger ruwiki does not. Goes to show. - crz crztalk 13:16, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

text: This says before the war there were 2000 people in L, 950 or so of them Jewish, of which ~700 were rounded up and summarily shot in 1941. I found an official figure of 1931 people in 1935 here. And though I cannot find any specific population figures, I did read modern impressions from tourists that the place is in serious decline economically and population-wise as Russian migrates to the cities like the rest of the world. Tiny place. Only the Jews care. The only local business is Rebbe tourism. - crz crztalk 13:47, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Articles 

message: I am not sure what is like in other articles but the Jewish article seem to get cluttered up pretty fast with links to shurim of everyone favorite rabbi.  Perhaps it would be best if we add a comment at the top of the external link section giving a short explanation of what types of links are appropriate.  A "external link cleanup campaign" might also be a good idea.  And it could be helpful if we formate more specific rules for external links in halakhic article than what is currently explain in Wikipedia:External links.  It seems to me that there is also a problem when there are many links to different, yet comparable, shurim on a topic.  There is no need to include all, but it is hard to justify how to pick just one. Please direct your comments to the post on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism to avoid two conversations. Jon513 15:00, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links 

message: Regarding the section on 'Characteristics' there. Meshulam insists on deleting it because it is unsourced. I insist on keeping it. JoshuaZ apparently agrees with keeping it (don't attack me if I'm wrong) and I think so does Yehoishophot Oliver. Input from others (see Talk:Hardal) would be highly appreciated. --Chussid 11:15, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Hardal]]

message: Article needs to be split up in one article about what we know nowadays as Litvish and another article about the history (and current situation) of Jews in Lithuania. Proposed titles: Litvish Judaism (paralel to Hasidic Judaism) and Judaism in Lithuania. Thoughts? --Chussid 13:01, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is certainly necessary to distinguish (in various places) between (1) Lithuanian Jewry (2) Litvaks = Jews living in Lite, which includes most of Belarus and part of Poland (3) the modrn use of Litvish as a synonym for misnagdish or, sometimes, not chasidish. --Redaktor 16:10, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Lithuanian Jews]]

message: I will probably be banned within minutes for 3RR because I keep reverting vandalism on Joel Teitelbaum. PLEASE, does nobody else care about this??? --Chussid 22:00, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If not there, then because I have now done 5 anti-vandalism reverts on Anti-Zionism. PLEASE HELP... --Chussid 22:27, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Help a troll and a vandal.  Hmmm...  Tomertalk 02:18, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Says the unbelieving Zionist heretic. --Chussid 15:51, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nu, children, who wants a potch? SHARE YOUR TOYS! - crz crztalk 15:54, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Vuz iz Duz, we want Ahavas Yisroel, even when the zionists are trying to undermine Yiddishkiet —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shaul avrom (talk • contribs) 21:53, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

text: You're a heretic zionist, an underbeliver, and an UncleTomer. And probably a troll... </humor> - crz crztalk 04:16, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Apparently.   is screaming for use... Tomertalk 05:07, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Desperate call for help

message: I prodded it. Please correct me if I'm wrong. - crz crztalk 07:42, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New article [[Elias Levi]] 

message: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:SFD#.7B.7BHeBible-stub.7D.7D_.E2.86.92_.7B.7BTanakh-stub.7D.7D - crz crztalk 19:38, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  {{tl|HeBible-stub}} on SfR 

message: Please see the editing going on there. HKTTalk 01:24, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Halakha]] 

message: A new draft of a proposed policy on criticism is being circulated. Since Judaism articles tend to have lots of controversy, suggest editors might want to review and comment on the proposal. Best, --Shirahadasha 18:48, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Wikipedia:Criticism]] 

message: Please look over the newly created article. HKTTalk 01:46, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Takkanah]] 

message: Aquila of Sinope needs a fixup ASAP. 203.206.248.147 12:30, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article fixup needed 

message: The Gamaliel II article says "Gamliel devoted special attention to the regulation of the rite of prayer, which after the cessation of sacrificial worship had become all-important. He gave the principal prayer, consisting of 18 benedictions, its final revision, and declared it every Israelite's duty to recite it three times daily." This is utterly misinformed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.206.248.147 (talk) 12:56, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have tried my best to fit the sentence as well as the parts of amidah on the topic.  Both article borrow to much material directly from the Jewish Encyclopedia. Jon513 14:03, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some mistakes 

message: Pitch in please - NYC JD (make a motion) 15:36, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Avrohom Blumenkrantz]] 

message: needs help - rescued from PROD. - NYC JD (interrogatories) 08:03, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Halachic organ donor society]] 

message: In my eyes totally inappropriate and something I do not intend to allow without resistance. Please give your vote. See Talk:Bet Shemesh. --Bear and Dragon 07:13, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: merging [[Ramat Beit Shemesh]] into [[Bet Shemesh]]

message: There is a new WikiProject task force proposal at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Inter-religious content that is being proposed to deal specifically with articles whose content relates to several religious traditions. Any editors interested in joining such a group would be more than welcome to indicate their interest there. John Carter 15:09, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New project proposal 

message: It looks like on the Eruv article and a number of others, the Judaism template was replaced with a new Orthodox Judaism template. I would recommend that before replacing templates in this manner, please place a notice on both Wikipedia:WikiProject Judaism and Wikipedia:WikiProject Orthodox Judaism and give the community an opportunity to discuss it. Best, --Shirahadasha 19:41, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orthodox Judaism template 

message: I have just added an Orthodox Judaism template. I think this is necessary because otherwise you have the absurd situation where the template links an article that's about Orthodox Judaism with other things that according to Orthodox Judaism have no connection at all with Orthodox Judaism. Yehoishophot Oliver 23:00, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orthodox Judaism template 

message: Template: has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. IZAK 08:08, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  TfD nomination of Template:{{ucfirst:Orthodox Judaism}}