Talk:Pedal steel guitar

message: Just a note to let y'all know that in a week or so I'm going to go through this section and clear out all the -tagged entries. Folks have had plenty of time to find references (or write articles on all the red links). +ILike2BeAnonymous 19:42, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I did a little cleanup of that section today.  I found online references for all the -tagged entries that had such, and I deleted the ones without any available information.  I also removed some more non-pedal steel players; at least David Gilmour wasn't one of them this time!  I didn't try to make judgments about who is "notable" and who isn't.  I maintain that there should be an objective standard for this.  Maybe we can come up with a good test someday.   : )   I agree that redlinked articles need to be written, but I don't agree that there should be some kind of time expectation for that.  I think it's okay to keep the redlink as a way to encourage knowledgeable users to write articles.  JSC ltd 16:40, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Cleanup overdue

message: I can't take it anymore.  The constant inclusion and reinclusion of every man Jack who may be known to the world at large to have touched something remotely like a steel guitar (pedals or no) must end!  For that purpose, I suggest the following test.
:1. "Notable" means that the person in question has contributed substantially to the invention, modifications, idiomatic technique, or fame/notorioty/popularity of the instrument, AND has influenced other such people.  For example, Buddy Emmons has contributed mechanical innovations.  His playing changed the way other players thought about the instrument.  He also established the PSG as a solo instrument in its own right.  He didn't innovate the concept of putting pedals on a steel guitar, but he standardized the layout and function of those pedals, as well as established the most common tuning.  Buddy Emmons is "notable."
:2.  "Pedal Steel Guitar" means the instrument this person plays or played is a steel guitar that has at least one pedal.  A pedal is a lever that the player pushes with his or her foot and thereby changes the tuning of the instrument.  No pedals = no pedal steel guitar.  For example, Steve Howe plays steel guitar on many Yes songs, but since he used a lap steel, he doesn't go on this list.
:3.  "Pedal Steel Guitar Player" means a person whose contibution to the realm of pedal steel guitar is a primary result of the music they made using the instrument or the exposure that music had, either in terms of the artist's longevity or citation among other players, or record sales and concert attendance.  For example, if Sri Chinmoy happens to *ahem* play a PSG at many of his concerts, which are attended by thousands of people, he still would not belong on the list because whatever influence he has is not a primary result of his PSG playing.
Before including a player on the list of Notable [Pedal Steel Guitar] Players, run them through the test and see if his or her inclusion is justified.  If you include a player that turns out to be redlinked, either 1. provide a good Wikipedia link to the (notable) band or whatever the player is or was a part of, 2. write an article about them, so their name won't be redlinked, or 3. don't include them because they aren't notable.  Remember that not everybody with a website is "notable."  We could probably stand to do the same for the Manufacturer's section....  JSC ltd 17:53, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This page is indeed a mess. I went through and removed all the external links, and I'd suggest that somebody (I might sometime) go through and look at the manufacturers and players. If there's a plausible case for notability, then keep it. Otherwise, remove it. Veinor (talk to me) 18:27, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "Notable Pedal Steel Guitar Players"

message: I reinstated Ton Masseurs because of his influence in the netherlands and europe. Maestrodrst 20:12, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Your edit resulted in a massive disruption of the article, including the loss of a lot of material from the text. (I undid it.) Did you just revert back to an earlier version? If so, that's not the way to accomplish things like "reinstating" one item; you have to edit it by hand. +ILike2BeAnonymous 00:44, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I was just looking for some online information about Masseurs.  I found a lot of links to this page, and his Wikipedia article, using google.nl.  The single article about The Tumbleweeds (at http://www.popinstituut.nl/biografie/tumbleweeds.5889.html) that I found lists him as "lapsteel."  All in all, he seems to be more notable as a producer than as a PSG player.  The Dutch language version of Wikipedia doesn't even have an article about him (see http://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ton_Masseurs&action=edit).  I dispute that he is notable.  Please provide sources to back up your assertion that he is a notable PSG player.  Based on what I have found in my research, he is not.  JSC ltd (talk) 23:58, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

text: I looked pretty hard to find a source for Ton Masseurs's notability.  I couldn't find a single one that was about Masseurs as a player, rather than as a producer.  If there is something you can point to that says he is notable, like a book, magazine article, or reliable online source, we can include him on the notable list; otherwise, I am afraid he doesn't belong there.  The source you added last time isn't in the article anymore, for whatever reason.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by JSC ltd (talk • contribs) 01:49, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Reinstated

message: We badly need a photo for this! Andrewa 18:42, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You sure said it!  I still don't know the difference between the instrument even after watching pedal steel guitar players like Lloyd Maines, sitting at what appears to be a table, until you see him picking at strings and such, compared to other stringed (versions?), or even other instruments like dobro.  Please someone, add some photos for clarification!!  If I'm not always sure (and I try to pay attention and learn), then what of random readers??! --leahtwosaints (talk) 17:21, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This article has some nice photos of the instrument, but it needs a closeup photo of a player holding the steel. A diagram showing how the pedals affect the strings would also be helpful (or a pair of closeup photos with pedal up and pedal down). (BTW, I have moved the  template to the top.) --Jtir (talk) 17:57, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Image

message: * Nashville Chamber Orchestra http://www.nco.org/
* Gary Morse http://resophonicrecords.com/aboutgary.html
* Paul Gambill http://www.nco.org/artists/gambill.htm
If these are encyclopedic, then they deserve pages of their own, and if not, the links don't belong here. Andrewa 09:47, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Rem links

message: The lap steel guitar and the dobro are usually played in similar fashion in that they are laid horizontally and the string's pitch is controlled by a slide or bar rather than by pressing them to frets.
This belongs in those articles, and is already well covered there. Here it is just confusing IMO. Andrewa 22:27, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Please see my comment above by the request for photographs of the instrument, or even other versions or similar instruments for those who are ignorant, like myself. --leahtwosaints (talk) 17:24, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Rem text

message: I removed the text because
:1. It has been cite tagged for five months.
:2. I feel like that's long enough to leave unsourced material in the lead with no change in citation, especially when that material is not particularly relevant to the lead.
:3. Even among those on our list of "Notable pedal steel guitarists," only three list Dobro as a second instrument (Franklin, Jackson and Leisz).
:4. I tried to find a source for this information myself, and could not.  FWIW.  
JSC ltd (talk) 22:50, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm  re-removing this text for the reasons listed above. JSC ltd (talk) 16:16, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Dobro as Second Instrument

message: I want to discuss the inclusion of a few names on the list (please duck the worms flying from the can I just opened...).  Those folks are:
:1. Ken Greer
:2. Daniel Lanois
:3. Barbara Mandrell
:4. Casey Prestwood
:5. Nick Zala
:6. Ton Masseurs
:7. John Neff  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dpac007 (talk • contribs) 18:16, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Seeing no opinions on the matter, I am removing these folks from the list of notable players.  JSC ltd (talk) 16:17, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

text: Um,...I may not know much about pedal steel guitar, but I know that Barbara Mandrell was known as the "Princess of Steel" and actually made her reputation as a steel guitar playing prodigy - and yes, she played the pedal steel as well.  And of course she went on to be one of the most famous country artists ever - and kept playing. You can see a picture of her custom, three-neck guitar on the Internet. So she clearly deserves to be up there. She passes the test by any measure. 1. She made a name for herself with the steel guitar - with Patsy Cline, for goodness sake - and was one of the first and by far the most famous female PSG players of the television era. So I think it's completely safe to say she was influential on female players. 2. She had a custom, four-neck, multi-pedal steel guitar that's in the Country Hall of Fame. 3. It wasn't just that she played the steel among other instruments (although she did), it was the instrument she was known for and made her early career on. I'm a fan of Jeff "Skunk" Baxter and I might argue that he belongs up there because of the interesting places he took the pedal steel, and the many tracks he played on, but I don't think even he's as clear a case as Barbara Mandrell, because he's probably best known for his guitar work that was concurrent with his PSG work. Jerry Garcia has a famous steel guitar riff, but he was primarily a six-string player. But it's one thing to be purist, it's another to ignore one of the most famous people of Country who was also one of the most well-known and ONLY female steel guitar players of her era. I'm putting her name back up and correcting her profile to indicate that she played pedal steel as well. --Dlawbailey (talk) 09:48, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Read up a little and found our Barbara Mandrell was taught my Norm Hamlet, that her first gig was demonstrating steel guitar at about age 11 and that her steel guitar is in the Country Music Hall of Fame. So I think that should settle that particular question. But in case it doesn't | have a look at this. --Dlawbailey (talk) 11:29, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks!  This is the kind of research and editing that should go into the list of notable players!  JSC ltd (talk) 15:49, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Players on Notable list not "notable?"

message: There's quite a lot that could be added to this article. At present it gives the impression that there's no standardisation at all, but in fact the basic instruments are the S-10 and D-10, most students learn on an S-10 with a fairly standard copedent, more professionals play a D-10 ditto ditto than any other setup (it may even be a majority there too), and most if not all other copedents are based on these ones.
 Strings By Mail lists what might be called a basic set of S-10 and D-10 string gauges. Andrewa (talk) 19:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Some to dos

message: Browsing Fender's 2009 catalogue I can only find a lap steel guitar. So, I assume Fender is in no way a present PSG manufacturer, although I don't know if it has produced PSG's in the past.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Venturini2 (talk • contribs) 11:41, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Fender made pedal steels during the 1960s.  Offhand, I don't know if they made pedal steels in other decades, but they certainly haven't for years.  When they did make pedal steels, they typically used eight-string necks and a unique (and difficult to keep in tune) cable pull changers.  I've seen several in guitar shops in the Puget Sound area, so there seem to be quite a few still on the market.  They aren't looked upon very kindly by people in the know.  JSC ltd (talk) 20:32, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  PSG manufacturers... Fender? 

message: I think Gene O'Neil, who is Charley Pride's steel guitarist, is very very notable.
Look at this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmAg0E-jqMY&feature=related  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.244.187.50 (talk) 18:47, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, put him through the test outlined above, and include him if he passes.  Remember, a player must be 1) notable; 2) notable for playing the pedal steel guitar; and 3) a pedal steel guitar player.  More references than a youtube video would be great.  JSC ltd (talk) 18:33, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gene O'Neil 

message: Removed this statement-but the pedals make even a single-neck pedal steel a far more versatile instrument than any multiple-neck console steel. There is no source for this and it reads like an opinion. 98.240.76.78 (talk) 23:52, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed the following. 

message: Please add citations for the history section. The history of PSG is very poorly documented in general. The Hawiian origins are widely disputed.
Emu23 (talk) 11:20, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: History

message: The article contains large sections copied verbatim from HERE. I have removed about half of the copyvio so far and I am continuing to edit the article adding refs to try to improve it. Per the above template suggestion, I have also added an audio file to demonstrate how a pedal steel guitar sounds --Eagledj (talk) 22:11, 7 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Article contains copyvio

message: Seeing as the article is Pedal steel guitar, it spends far too much time in essayism, rambling on about stuff that is properly covered in specific articles:
* Slide guitar
* Slack-key guitar
* Steel guitar
* Lap steel guitar
* Console steel guitar
Really, there is so much unnecessary overlap between these articles that I could make the case they've become a string of content forks unnecessarily bloated up with redundancy; compare to the odd separation between Resonator ukulele & Lap steel ukulele (& I'm not convinced that Resonator ukulele & Resonator mandolin really need to be separate from Resonator guitar).Weeb Dingle (talk) 19:44, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  really ought to be pruned 

message: I just came across this article, and have two comments. I might get around to implementing the first one; the second one I'm just going to toss out as an opinion with additional concrete information (I'm not going to jump into the controversy).
If anyone has a solid objection to the first, post it here, otherwise I may go ahead and remove it.
1. As far as I know, no one in Indian music has used "Pedal steel guitar". There is a lot of use of modified slide steel guitars (in both classical music and film music), but nothing with pedals. As such, the Indian music references should be removed from this article, and placed in a "slide guitar" article or something.
2. Granted, Jerry Garcia was not a pro country player, but he was a competent musician who took pedal steel quite seriously for a few years (1969-1974, I read). He was an early member of New Riders of the Purple Sage, toured with them for a while (6 months +/-? Sometimes/often as openers for the Grateful Dead), and was on their first album. He also played steel on albums by David Crosby, Doug Sahm, Brewer and Shipley, Steven Stills, and Jefferson Airplane (and probably others). He also played steel on one or two songs during the 1987 Dead/Dylan stadium tour (e.g., https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulARfcD9lcU ).
The second paragraph in the following is a short interview with Garcia about pedal steel, which (to me) indicates he took it seriously: 
https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/jerry-garcias-pedal-steel.623928/page-2
That strikes me as enough to be notable (at least as early rock crossover).
Finney1234 (talk) 22:17, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with you. This article is being strangled by people who don't consider "non-country" lap and pedal steel players to be "real" players. Tell me Wikipedia shouldn't mention John Lennon's "For You Blue" performance, or David Gilmour on DSOTM? Add your stuff, just be clear that he was a guitarist, who got into pedal for a while. Billyshiverstick (talk) 21:23, 31 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Indian Music, Jerry Garcia