Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Canberra/Archive 1

message: I propose that having an article exist should be worth 1 point, it being  a complete or detailed article should be worth an extra point. To calculate the percent complete = number of points / ( number of required articles * 2 ).
Using this method if all articles exist but are not complete then the graph will be at 50%. Martyman 00:58, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Completion graphs

message: I would like to get a suburb in Canberra up to featured article status as an example of what a good suburb article can be. I have put a fair bit of work into Yarralumla, Australian Capital Territory, but would appreciate any feedback or contributions people could give before I try and nominate it for featured article. Martyman 05:06, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: It looks very nice. Any plans for a demography section- all that data should be available from the ABS, schools and transport if relevant are also missing. You should include your new close up map (also very nice) somewhere too--nixie 02:26, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I have downloaded the statistics from the 2001 census but they really didn't seem very interesting to me. But yes I guess a demographics section should have a place in the article. I did include the population from the 2001 census in the lead section. Schools are mentioned in the notable places section, but could be moved to their own section. A roads and transport section does exist but there really isn't too much you can say about Canberra public transport. The trouble with the close up central canberra map I have created is that half of Yarralumla is off the side of the map. I might make a new version extended to cover all of Yarralumla but certainly won't be doing that for all suburbs as it is too much work. Martyman 04:59, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps schools and transport and local shopping centres could be stuck in a section called suburb amenities or something similar. I'm not sure demographics are that interesting either, and they can mean very little without having something to compare them to, average age, household income/size wrt the rest of Canberra/Australia may be interesting- since we're looking at a realtively wealthy suburb.--nixie 06:08, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

text: It looks really great now, one last thing would be to add a politics section like the Summer Hill, New South Wales article, saying which electorates the suburb is in and a list of notable residents if there are more than the govenor-general.--nixie 23:38, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Featured Suburb Example 

message: I have spent a fair bit of time drawing up a map of Inner Canberra that can be used to show the location of many important buildings. I will create custom maps with hilighted buildings/areas for each article. Any feedback on changes to the format of the map would be appreciated. Martyman 00:18, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: So we keep things consistent- how are you planning on marking the subject of an article on this map? --nixie 02:29, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I was thinking about this. If it was a building, for example parliament house I would probably draw the building in red. For an area like Civic, Acton or Parkes I was thinking about turning the colour level down on the rest of the map. Do you think I should add more labels for things or leave it simple? Martyman 05:01, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

text: Is it the monitor I'm using, or does it look more fuzzy now?--nixie 23:33, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I changed the size of the full size image up a bit to fit more detail. Either you are refering to the thumbnail which might not generate as well from the size I have choosen, or you mean the full size image, which could be the problem that I saw where I was getting a cached version of the old image blown up to the same size as the new image. A full shift-reload fixed it for me. I have desaturated the green a bit to make it less glarey too. Martyman 01:36, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: the fuzziness appears to have been a cache thing, now I can see the new one it looks great--nixie 01:45, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)

text: Note to self: Fix spelling of Melbourne Avenue and move Norhtbourne Avenue label into crop area. Martyman 01:44, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)

text: Further note: fix spelling of Stirling Park. Martyman 00:58, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Map of Inner Canberra 

message: I've created a new template, named Canberra-stub for stubs related to Canberra. This is what it looks like:
It's based off Template:Melstub, and can be used by adding  instead of . Try to use it instead of , as it will help to list Canberra-related stubs in one place.
--Somebody in the WWW 10:26, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I just noticed that there is a , which is specific to Canberra suburbs, and not Canberra in general. Should we merge the two? Somebody in the WWW 09:50, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: The question is fairly accademic as I am the only person who has been doing a large amount of work on Canberra suburbs. The suburb stub template adds suburbs to the "Suburbs of Canberra (incomplete)" category providing an easy list of suburbs articles that are incomplete as opposed to Canberra articles that would be defined as a stub. I intend to sit down and create a big bite of the remaining not-yet-created suburbs some time soon. Martyman 12:41, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Wouldn't a better system for the suburb boxes be to have templates (like WikiProject Melbourne has with Template:MelbSuburbBox1 and Template:MelbSuburbBox2) that add the category as part of the template, instead of having lots of table code? Somebody in the WWW 05:11, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: It has already been done  I just haven't gotten around to implenmenting the new system yet. I will have to go through and change the existing articles I have created and add the new locator info to the project page. The trouble is it stops you being able to add non-suburbs to the locality box, so many are still going to have to be hand coded anyway. Martyman 06:35, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: CanbSuburbBox1 has been based off MelbSuburbBox1, which automatically adds [[<entered into page>, Australian Capital Territory|<entered into page]]. A solution would be to make a seperate box, based off MelbSuburbBox2, which would allow you to blank out suburbs, etc... Somebody in the WWW 10:53, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't mind using the manual method the way the Yarralumla, Australian Capital Territory is currently set out. It requires a bit of coding but is not too difficult. The code used is as follows: Martyman 01:57, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  <nowiki>{{Canberra-stub}}</nowiki> 

message: I setup a standard (of one?) infobox for my article on the suburb of Macquarie, Australian Capital Territory. It captures a bunch of standard information
as a snapshot rather than having to massage it into the body of the article. Garglebutt / (talk) 22:20, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice, can I ask where you got the population stats? I have been trying to find some. It might be good to have a heading for the district as well - as in District: Belconnen Cfitzart 00:41, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

text: oh thanks, I wonder which of those stats could also work in the infobox Cfitzart 00:55, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added district to the infobox. I thought about other stats to include but then the box becomes too much a summary of info already presented within the body of the article. Garglebutt / (talk) 03:56, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Postcode would be a good addition, I think you're right about leaving out stats other than population.--nixie 05:11, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  I can provide stats about area if you'd like to include those. Adz 07:05, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: *Do you mean the size of the suburb? That could be a useful summary stat. It could be used to produce a population/m^2 kind of measure. Garglebutt / (talk) 08:59, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: *Yes, the size of the suburb. The information is in the ACT Government maps of suburbs and districts which I can access from time to time. I'd upload them bit by bit when I have time.  - I don't know how useful population density would be as I imagine that it would be very similar for the most part, but we could try it and find out. Adz 00:45, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: If you look at the stats for each suburb from the ABS, the area is in the spreadsheet header, for example Cook is 1.6km2 and Macquarie 1.7 2; density will probably be pretty even across Canberra--nixie 01:37, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

text: The census has a record of the type of dwelling, houses, townhouses etc. I haven't come across open space vs. developed area though.--nixie 02:51, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: *My thinking was that density is an indication of both housing and open space. I figured Red Hill would have relatively low density compared to Gungahlin. Perhaps it would be a good stat to add to the list of suburbs in the first instance. Garglebutt / (talk) 11:11, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Suburb infobox

message: There does seem to be some variation in suburb density.  Kingston covers 1.3 sqkm with population of 2145 giving density of 1650 people per square km.  Red Hill has population of 3088 over 4.8 square km giving density of 642 people per square km.  Cook with a population of 2741 and an area of 1.6 km has a density of 1713 and Macquarie's density is 1348.  In fact housing type and proportion of open space are more interesting characteristics, but not sure where easily findable stats on open space are.--AYArktos 02:26, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The census has a record of the type of dwelling, houses, townhouses etc. I haven't come across open space vs. developed area though.--nixie 02:51, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: *My thinking was that density is an indication of both housing and open space. I figured Red Hill would have relatively low density compared to Gungahlin. Perhaps it would be a good stat to add to the list of suburbs in the first instance. Garglebutt / (talk) 11:11, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suburb density 

message: Please see Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Hawker, Australian Capital Territory
The article on Hawker had not been made into a good stub but I have had a first pass at upgrading it.  It would be a poor precedent if we allowed such an article to be successfully voted for deletion --AYArktos 10:49, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Canberra suburb - on VfD 

message: The template associated with the incomplete suburb articles was nominated for merger with Template:Canberra-stub or for deletion on June 19 at  Wikipedia:Stub_types_for_deletion--AYArktos 21:52, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: In the debate it has been suggested to change the name of the category to :Category:Canberra suburb stubs. I would suport the rename.  Any comments?--AYArktos 01:52, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stub template nomination for deletion 

message: Moved list of complete and detailed suburbs to Wikipedia:WikiProject_Canberra/Suburbs#List of completed suburbs --Martyman-(talk) 03:37, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It just strikes me as a bit odd to be calling a basic stub "complete". Shouldn't we be aiming for a bit more than this? Ambi 02:14, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: We can aim for more than that by moving them up to "detailed" status. (added list for detailed) It just seems that what we had before was that no article was complete unless it was as long as Yarralumla, which would have been almost impossible. Cfitzart 03:31, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of completed suburbs 

message: I would like to suggest we add an education section to the Canberra Wikiproject.
Generally education in Canberra could do with some tidying up. Maybe the Education Section of the Canberra article could be expanded into an overview Education in Canberra article. At the moment we have "Category:Schools in the Australian Capital Territory" and "Category:Education in Canberra" this seems messy, do all schools need to be added to both or should one category be made a sub-category of the other?
We have a comprehensive List of schools in the Australian Capital Territory. But I don't think we should be running out and creating articles for every red-link on the page. As discussed on the page, maybe the schools pages should be redirects to the suburb articles, and school content be developed there. In fact any school article that already exists and is below a useful length should probably be merged back into it's parent suburb article, until enough content exists to justify it's own article. Martyman 06:05, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think an Education in the Australian Capital Territory article would be a better name for the suggested summary article.--nixie 06:14, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Speaking of schools, I just saw the Lanyon High School article which has a section "recent events" where between "200 and 400 students" are supposed to have attacked the school. Is there a source on this?? a date or even a year might give it some credibility. Cfitzart 09:08, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Erm, that sounds remarkably like bullshit to me. Ambi 02:33, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Schools in Canberra 

message: I've done a bit of work on the Belconnen (district) article. I've also put up a 'to do' list on the talk page, which might have been a bit presumptive of me, but it was more a list for my benefit so that I can remember what still needs doing more than anything. It might provide some useful suggestions to anybody who wants to work on other district articles. I think having info on Districts is more valuable that trying to complete all the suburbs as it would give people a better picture of Canberra than if they had to go to every suburb article and then only found out who it was named after and what year it was settled. Adz 06:53, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice work on this Adz and the todo list is a good prompt. I agree that it is better to have a nicely fleshed out district article with a bit of info on less interesting suburbs, but some of the editors have made it clear that they prefer a separate article per suburb even though most are just a couple of lines of text; go figure. Garglebutt / (talk) 07:35, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: There has always been broad consensus on Wikipedia that suburbs deserve their own articles - try putting one on WP:VFD and watch how overwhelmingly it gets rejected. This is not to say that a fleshed out district article is useful - they're both important, and one doesn't cancel the other out. Ambi 02:33, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the problem is that the definition of a suburb in most other cities is different to Canberra. I believe in most cities a suburb has some form of local government associated with it. I do feel that any Canberra suburb that someone feels interesting enough to write a decent article about should exist, but the abundance of two line stubs for many of the newer/less interesting suburbs (while possibly useful as a starting block) is not very useful. Martyman 10:51, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It sounds like you're thinking of what a suburb or neighbourhood is in North America. In an Australian context, a singular suburb is never (or rarely) municipal or incorporated. Rather, they are merely geographical subdivisions of a larger city or LGA, with an assign postcode. Some suburbs or neighbourhoods in Australia have "residents associations", but these have no legal or official status. Nevertheless, it is appropriate to expect an article on every suburb in Canberra, as for other cities in Australia.--Cyberjunkie | Talk 11:43, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I would have thought the majority of wikipedia users are from North America, and therefore any consensis of keeping all suburb articles would be based on their definition. In Canberra as many as six or so suburbs share one post code. Anyway I am really just arguing this for the sake of it, really I do agree that if enough effort is put in and every suburb gets the details set out in the discussion further up the page, then that would be great. Martyman 11:51, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Districts 

message: Following along from the Google Maps links I did recently, I'm pleased to see that we've got a map template to automatically generate links to a number of mapping sites. All you do is insert  and modify the latitude and longitude to suit. The "suburbscale" keyword generates a scale sufficient to show a whole suburb.
One point to watch: make sure that you show the latitude with a minus sign in it, otherwise you end up with a map from somewhere in the region of Japan!
Here's the template with the information above, shown for Duffy:

:Nice. I've added it to the other Weston Creek suburb articles. - Gimboid13 03:48, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Map template 

message: Discussion on the naming of stub templates relating to this and other Australian city wikiprojects is in progress at WP:WSS/P#Australian cities. Feel free to comment. Grutness...wha? 01:41, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Stub templates

message: Recently this article Grapevine ISP was added to the canberra category, seems like it could be corporate promotion?. The organisation is owned by ActewAGL and TransACT, and the creator of the article, User:Aceyducey has only contributed to those articles, all on the same day: Special:Contributions/Aceyducey ---- Astrokey44 07:00, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It's still quite notable, and the article isn't bad, so I don't see much of a problem. Ambi 07:33, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: fair enough, just checking.. Astrokey44 09:32, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  grapevine isp 

message: After the discussion mentioned above, the stub templates and categories relating to Canberra have been changed.
* used to link with  - it now links with  - the reason for this is that almost all of ACt's stubs would be about Canberra anyway, and the remainder would probably relate quite strongly to the city. It also saves having a small number of stubs which wouldn't otherwise have a category.
* used to link with  - Neither of these now exist. In place of them are  and . This keeps Canberra (and Australia's other cities) in line with other cities in the world with their own stub categories. Most of the stubs in here are still suburbs, but hills, lakes, districts and the like are also included.
We at WP:WSS hope that this won't cause any inconvenience and (hopefully) will be even more useful than the old stub types. Grutness...wha? 05:37, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Change of stub templates

message: If you're in Canberra at the moment, you may be amused to know that banned local user Skyring is on the back page of today's Canberra Times. Ambi 10:37, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Today's Canberra Times