Talk:Operation Pedestal

message: try to add a battlebox to understand better the aftermatch
Agreed a very good article, just needs some details about the supplies delivered and lost to make it excellent.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.100.141.29 (talk) 14:13, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  nice article 

message: Hi, I expanded this article, added a battlebox and I uploaded a series of images for this article. Contact me for ay improvement. Reuv 17:51, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Needs clean-up before A-class review. Good comprehensive detail, but at times it reads more like a copy of an official report - a bit verbose. Some sections could do with sub-division and there are some formatting issues - I'll have a crack as a demo, without changing the substance. IMO, the detail is fine, but it can put off the casual reader - I'm never sure how to resolve the conundrum. BTW, what exactly was the US involvement (see tags)? If it was just the Ohio, then it needs discussion, we haven't previously added a tag for every nationality in a convoy. Folks at 137 05:42, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well, the Ohio was 'american'-built, but it was under british ownership. There were also two other American ships in the convoy, the  SS Santa Elisa and the SS Almeria Lykes. For services during this operation President Roosevelt  presented the Merchant Marine Distinguished Service Medal to Frederick August Larsen, Jr., Junior Third Officer and to Francis A. Dales, Cadet-Midshipman, U.S. Merchant Marine Academy, for "Heroism Beyond the Call of duty". I assumed that such American involvement ought to be noted, even if it was indeed marginal. Reuv 08:35, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's fine, no problem for me. I had assumed that the Ohio was US owned, registered and crewed - must check. Adding the US ensign to the "combatant" part of the box (this is not the tag I referred to) implied to me that there were US warships, which I doubted, unlike a later operation which involved a US carrier. It may be interesting to add the merchant ships' details. The awards you mention should be in the article (if they're not already), and there were some UK awards as well, eg, Syfret was knighted for his part. Folks at 137 17:32, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I did contribute to the wikipedia SS Ohio article as well, and it seems that the tanker was registered in the British Eagle Oil list as soon as her involvement in the convoy was confirmed....i think Lend-Lease or some big-wig discussion had something to do with it. What I'm certain of is that her crew during the initial operation was British...however, two American seamen (the ones that got the awards) were involved with the latter stages of the convoy. They were survivors from the american freighters (one of them from the Almeria Lykes) and they volunteered to man the Oerlikons on the Ohio as it approached Malta. I did not know of Syfret's knighthood or that it was linked with this convoy....there was a George Cross for the captain of the Ohio too now that i remember!! Reuv 17:56, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Expansion and rewriting

message: The battle should be marked as success and victory for the Allies. It should be noted that there was no fuel and spareparts left for airplanes,the gunners had a ration how much shells should they fire, and food left for the population was just for a few days more (some sources say about 10 days was the maximum). By food here we mean the basic needs, such as flour and potatoes not other commodities. The convoy brought these necessary supplies for Malta to fight till the next convoy can be despatched.88.203.76.186 (talk) 10:05, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why the battle is marked indecisive? 

message: Re the infobox and the post-nominal initials of one of the British commanders: CB means Companion of the Bath (see blue link above.) Kim Dent-Brown (Talk) 17:08, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  What's this [[CB (Honour)|CB]] thing? 

message: Firstly, I think this is a very good article, on a series of events which are often forgotten or not taken into account when the Allied victory in the western desert is evaluated.  
Secondly, permit me some comments:
* It seems as if the link Sta Marija Convoy Surviving Crewmen for Malta Reunion [usmm.org] appears to be broken;
* There is a paragraph which states that the “Ohio eventually broke her back” and was abandoned by the crew.  However, the in the following paragraphs she is limping and being towed, supported by ships on either side, into Malta.  To me, a non-nautical person, if a ship breaks her back it means she broke into two.  Perhaps the terms used in this section to describe her damage should be re-visited. Alternatively, to describe how she was re-manned and nursed to continue her voyage.  I think this is important as Ohio was the determinant of the overall success or failure of Operation Pedestal.
*   I read somewhere in some wiki guideline that one should steer away from naming an article after a military operation as different sides often had different names for the same chain of events. I don’t know what would be a better title, but I mention it for your consideration.
* I think the following paragraphs require citations:
** Operation Pedestal, though tactically disastrous, was turned into a strategic victory in that it served as a great uplift to the besieged island's morale 
** The amount of supplies which reached Malta as a consequence of the convoy;
** The number of tons of shipping and fuel sunk / denied to Rommel.
I made some minor changes to the article, refer the history section for those.
Farawayman (talk) 20:08, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Often Forgotten Operation! 

message: Interview with a german stuka pilot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wk6QHXdRBUo&feature=relmfu
Rainer E. 84.150.23.175 (talk) 16:48, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  youtube - Operation Pedestal 

message: In this section it mentions Vice-Admiral Syfret was knighted (KCB) for his "bravery and dauntless resolution in fighting an important Convoy through to Malta in the face of relentless attacks by day and night from enemy submarines, aircraft, and surface forces."
I think this is incorrect and that it was my grandfather, Rear Admiral Sir Harold Martin Burrough.  He commanded the close escort from his flagshp HMS Nigeria and when she was torpedoed (the ship listed sharply, sailors looked up expectantly and Admiral Burrough said "don't worry, she'll hold, lets have a cigarette" and the tension passed) he transferred his flag to HMS Ashanti.  I know Admiral Burrough won his KCB for this action (I still have the book "Malta Convoy" signed by him).  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Charles boyall (talk • contribs) 22:35, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Awards and recognition 

message: Substituted at 01:54, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: Obtained Greene and Massignani which has been a great help in rationalising the patchwork from other sources and clarifying the chronology, it also contains a much better account of Axis operations than the previous sources.Keith-264 (talk) 15:43, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Continued the revision using the new source.Keith-264 (talk) 12:12, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent edits 

message: This has the sense of a thing done but supply is continuous so being revitalised isn't enough; I toyed with re-victualled but it has the same problem.Keith-264 (talk) 07:10, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revitalised 

message: Francesco Mattesini</br>
LA BATTAGLIA AERONAVALE DI MEZZO AGOSTO :Il contrasto delle forze italo-tedesche all’operazione britannica «Pedestal» (10 - 15 Agosto 1942) RiStampa Edizioni</br>
The book, with a book price of 48 Euros, consists of 675 pages, richly illustrated with maps and photographs, and printed in very white coated paper.
The first copies were delivered today to the ARES Library in Rome, Via Lorenzo il Magnifico, 46 - tel. 06 56547201.
And also at the Veterland Library - Alberto Manca (library, vaterland @ gmail.com), Via Azuni 21 09077 Solarussa (OR) - Tel. 0783374730, cell. 3292289495.</br>
If you wish, you can contact the Editor, my brother, architect Silvano Mattesini, passionate and writer of Ancient Roman History, to take orders to be honored by bank transfer, and related shipping costs (15 Euros):</br>
:Banca Popolare di Spoleto, Seat of Rieti, Banco di Desio Via Giovanni Falcone n. 2,
:IBAN: IT48 HO57 0414 6000 0000 0159 600
:BIC swift BDSPIT3S
:mattesini@armatureromane.com</br>
with regard
Francesco Mattesini  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.45.230.149 (talk) 10:59, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I've condensed this, as it was taking up too much space; I've also put it it it's own section, as it isn't part of the previous discussion. It probably qualifies as SPAM; on the other hand the book probably qualifies as a reliable source. It's an ethical minefield…  Xyl 54 (talk) 02:56, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

text: PS: The Italian WP has extracts on the corresponding article's talk page, if anyone wishes to check them out... Xyl 54 (talk) 02:58, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: (Book)

message: British historian Sir Max Hastings has published a major new book on this battle titled Operation Pedestal. I would think any article without it would be incomplete at best and possibly outdated in certain areas. -- GreenC 21:03, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you advertising? As for Hastings, he's a hack not a historian. Regards Keith-264 (talk) 21:06, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: In his acknowledgements, Sir Max particularly commends Brian Crabb's Operation Pedestal (2014 -- "exhaustive... especially valuable for its appendices, detailing a mass of factual data"), Peter C. Smith's Pedestal: The Convoy That Saved Malta (1970, repr.1999) and Sam Moses' At All Costs: How A Crippled Ship and Two American Merchant Mariners Turned the Tide of World War II (2006). Of these, only Smith appears in the article's bibliography at present. Hastings also uses some quite interesting Italian and German sources. So his book may include things that could usefully be added to the article. On the other hand, the article is quite long already and Hastings mainly (and intentionally) deals in anecdotal history. Khamba Tendal (talk) 16:56, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: So he's a tertiary source. Keith-264 (talk) 18:07, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sir [[Max Hastings]] 

message: The addition of a brief sentence on pilfering from convoy supplies has made me look at the background section again. While it mentions the dire situation that Malta was in terms of being able to continue as a military resource and some of the emergency measures considered to stave off starvation I don't think it provides sufficient information on how desparate the situation was. Perhaps some more context could be provided from the general article on the siege. GraemeLeggett (talk) 06:32, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  addition of mention of looting - what it means for article