Talk:Ethnic minorities in China

message: I think this topic should consolidate with Demographics of China. 
---voidvector
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Some websites say "55 ethnic minority groups" or simply say "56 ethnic groups", other websites say "56 ethnic minority groups" but never mention 57 total, so I am confused of how many is actually recognized in total 56 or 57.  ---voidvector
: I figured out "Dulong" and "Drung" are the same ethnic group.  they are duplicates. See here ---voidvector
It seems to be a mistake in the wiki. "officially recognizes 56 ethnic minority groups within China in addition to the Han majority" is incorrect. Offcially it is 55 minorites plus the Han Chinese adding up to total in 56. Source one only lists the 56 ethnic groups (Han included) as well as the Chinese Bureau of Statistics. Please provide a better source for 57 ethnic groups or change it to 56 (saying 55 ethnic minorites + Han)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.165.74.253 (talk) 15:10, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Old talk

message: Ethnic minorities China is a very awkward article name. Can we please change this to something more appropriate, maybe one of the names that redirects here? -- Jmabel | Talk 11:17, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article name 

message: It would be nice if this article would move in a direction way from relying solely on the PRC "56 nationalities" list. Not that the list should be gotten rid of: there's nothing wrong with it for the most part. It makes a good starting place. However, it has its limitations, such as the case of the "undistinguished nationalities" and the indigenous Taiwanese. There's a lot that can be said about the ethnic demographics of China that doesn't fit into that framework.
Also, I'm not sure "Nationalities of China" is the best title for this page. I know that many sources conventionally translate 民族 as "nationality", but this is distinctly ambiguous in English. What's wrong with "ethnic groups in China" or something like that? - Nat Krause(Talk!) 20:56, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Future of the article 

message: An anon recently edited the article to claim that Kaifeng Jews are among the recognized nationalities in China, but provided no references to the claim. I didn't find anything about thin on internet and lerning that there are about 400 Jews an Kaifeng, I assumed this was a hoax or misinformation and anon's edits are reverted. I may well be wrong, so please investigate.
By the way, a drawback of this article is lack of any link/reference to official data. `'mikka (t) 03:55, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kaifeng Jews 

message: An article similar ro United States Census is missing for China. `'mikka (t) 04:04, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Census? 

message: QuoteUnless specifically stated or discussing Chinese minorities, English usage of the term "Chinese" typically refers to the Chinese nation, and not the Han Chinese.
I would dispute this sentence. I think the English word "Chinese" in English usually refer to; Han Chinese/ethnic Chinese, or to things that are to do with the PRC (not inc. HK and Taiwan) or to the historical China. The use of the English word "Chinese" to refer to  the Chinese nation/a citizen of the PRC+Taiwan is only used by the PRC and the Han Chinese/ethnic Chinese.
Eg The Chinese economy: economy of the PRC (not inc. HK and Taiwan). LDHan 15:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Definition and use of "Chinese"

message: As per the discussion above, I'd like to throw this idea out there.  Should we just move the article to "Ethnic minorities in China"?
#For all practical purposes, the article is about ethnic minorities in China.
#Ethnic minorities in China have certain statuses that are different from the Han majority.  The PRC government has special laws and policies regarding ethnic minorities.
Hong Qi Gong 19:15, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, I don't think so, because the Han (and also "Zhonghua minzu") are discussed here.  That's the convention for other articles about ethnic groups in Asian nations, such as those for Burma.  Badagnani 19:18, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just for the record, I don't feel that strongly about renaming it.  But I do think it's a good idea.  The Han majority is discussed in the article only in the context of how ethnic minorities are differentiated from it.  That's how discussions about ethnic minorities in China generally go, I mean, the Han make up 92% of the population.  I do see that there are articles for List of ethnic groups in Myanmar, List of ethnic groups in Laos, List of ethnic groups in Vietnam, etc, but those are basically nothing but lists.  This article has grown beyond that.  How about we move the list itself to List of ethnic groups in China, and we move the body of the article to Ethnic minorities in China?  Hong Qi Gong 20:09, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

text: That's a possibility.  Although the template covers the names of the ethnic groups, but we could have a list similar to the one I made for the List of ethnic groups in Myanmar, that breaks them down by language group.  That might be good.  Badagnani 20:12, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This way, we can expand upon the special statuses and policies that the PRC has concerning ethnic minorities.  For example, they are exempt from the One Child Policy, they are allowed certain amounts of autonomous government with the use of their own native languages, etc etc.  We can leave this discussion up for a few days before we actually do this.  Hong Qi Gong 20:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I'm not sure if anyone is reading this (unlike pages like Hong Kong, where people are always arguing)!  I think ethnic groups, though interesting to us, might not be interesting to everyone.  The same is true with the ethnic group articles for other Asian countries.  It's pretty desolate, with only a few specialists interested in that particular nation or in anthropology in general, chiming in from time to time but not always putting in the hard work to document and organize all the groups.  Particularly with Myanmar, it's extremely difficult because references are still scarce.  But it's a cumulative process, and the articles are getting better all the time.  Badagnani 20:26, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I posted in the Talk pages of both the China article and the PRC article, asking for people to weigh in on the matter.  Hong Qi Gong 21:07, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move to "Ethnic minorities in China" or split the article? 

message: Dear Nat Krause, I'm not sure I understand your redirect back to "Nationalities of China," which was entirely without "discussion."  We've already been through the fact that it's not a good idea to do that.  Why not undo the redirect, then participate in "discussion"?  That would be great.  Badagnani 22:27, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Isn't nationalities of China the original location? I think it is not only an option but a duty to move the page back to where it was before the cut-and-paste move.—Nat Krause(Talk!) 22:43, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

text: No worries.  Let's see how the discussion on the current proposed Move and Split goes.  Then we'll request a Move if we can agree on it.  Hong Qi Gong 22:30, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

text: The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 
The result of the debate was Move.  —Wknight94 (talk) 10:57, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nat Krause's redirect 

message: That article was specifically written about the ethnic Koreans in China.  That's the correct article to link to.  --- Hong Qi Gong 19:41, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Korean Chinese]] 

message: Ok, the article is finally moved. I don't have the time to do it at the moment, but later today when I have more time, if anybody hasn't done it yet, I'll be:
#Splitting the list of ethnic groups into its own article.
#Editing this article to reflect that it's an article on China's ethnic minorities.
--- Hong Qi Gong 14:43, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I notice that my original comment of "Support, , but only if the various terms that have been used by the PRC government to discuss the ethnic groups in China (ethnic groups, nationalities, national minorities) are all discussed in a thorough manner (similar to the way we've been discussing them here), including discussion of the political ramifications of each translation of the term" hasn't been followed up on.  Badagnani 16:19, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Give us a little time. Like many articles on Wikipedia, this is a work in progress. And of course, it goes without saying that your contributions are encouraged also.  --- Hong Qi Gong 16:42, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moved finally 

message: Is the 107 million+ population for PRC+ROC non-Han minorities correct?  I added it, it was removed, I added it back and it's still there.  I think it adds something important to the article and want to make sure 1) it's accurate and 2) the other specialists here agree the population figure should feature in the article.  Badagnani 07:08, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Population 

message: Why does the Hakka and Hui info now appear in two different paragraphs?  I think editors need to read the entire article (and "discussion"), and think carefully before making considered edits.  I don't think that's going on right now, because everyone is so sure that they are right.  We can all work together to make this a great article, perhaps the best on the Internet on this subject.  (We already know that many Wikipedia articles do already fit that description.)  Badagnani 18:10, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hakka and Hui info 

message: Ethnic groups in China‎ include the Han people. No matter what, it is wrong to direct ethnic groups in China to ethnic minorites in China. Some editors are making technical mistakes here. Nres 19:54, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You are correct in stating that the redirect from Ethnic groups in China left out the Han people.  It's fixed now.  Thanks for your input.  Badagnani 19:57, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

text: It's been discussed here.  The Han deserve, and have their own page and the 55 minority groups (about 8 percent of the PRC population total) has another page.  The disambig page refers to them all.  This gets the reader to the right place to discuss the ethnic groups they wish to learn more about.  Thanks for your interest in these pages.  It's best, as a new editor, to spend some time here and discuss before making sweeping changes that may have been considered very thoughtfully over time.  Regards,  Badagnani 20:02, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I see what you are saying. The alternative would be to go back to changing the Ethnic minorities in China page back to Ethnic groups in China, and discussing the Han there. But we've been through that through discussion (which should be archived). We can always discuss it again at the Ethnic minorities in China discussion page. Badagnani 21:00, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ethnic groups in China‎

message: Though I don't want this article to fall into the trap of portraying ethnic minorities in China just as Asian-looking people who wear "ethnic clothes" and dance "ethnic dances" and sing "ethnic songs", that picture "a Chinese man of Manchu descent", is really low quality (blurry, off-centre, perspective looks like the guy took it of himself) and IMO takes away from the article instead of adding to it. The only redeeming quality is that he's in casual clothing.
Anyway, some good pictures of ethnic minorities in China can be found at:
* :commons:Category:Uyghur people
* :commons:Category:Tibetan people
* :commons:Category:Hui people
* :commons:Category:Naxi
Shall we select a better picture? cab 21:34, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's fine; select the best ones.  I think the editor who added that photo may be ethnically Manchu, from his/her user name.  Badagnani 21:48, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Images 

message: Why was the Miao photo just deleted and a Hui photo substituted, by an anon IP, without comment, today?  I don't believe it's necessary to delete one photo when adding another.  Your comments will be welcome.  It does seem fair to have photos from different regions (i.e. North, West, and South).  Badagnani 22:04, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Substitution of photo 

message: You know it's wrong right? What's in the article is so politically incorrect.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Changchih228 (talk • contribs) 2007-02-04 20:36:42
:I disagree.  What's in the article, and specifically the content you keep blanking out, is factual.  Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 20:42, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please sign posts with four tildes after your post.  The PRC claims 56 ethnic groups and you cannot change that by simply changing the number in the article from 56 to 55, or blanking text.  You will probably need to explain in more detail (more than just one line) why you have been blanking massive sections of text from several articles.  Badagnani 20:44, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Disagree that the "wrong things are under the wrong title".  Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 21:43, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  No problem with the text

message: Just out of curiosity does any source ever talk about caucasians, or for that matter african descent people, living in China after immigrating there? Not very much of this occurs but it does happen.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.150.56.120 (talk) 2007-07-30 23:30:41
:I believe most sources that mention Caucasians or African descent people in China would probably label them as expatriates, and not ethnic minorities.  Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 00:59, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  caucasians in china 

message: http://books.google.com/books?id=IOM8qF34s4YC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
Rajmaan (talk) 19:05, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  An Ethnohistorical Dictionary of China By James Stuart Olson 

message: books and articles by Lin Hsiao-ting
http://books.google.com/books?id=osn1WrRCelcC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://www.ubcpress.ca/books/pdf/chapters/2006/tibetandnationalistchina'sfrontier.pdf
http://books.google.com/books?id=rsLQdBUgyMUC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://www.silkroadstudies.org/new/docs/CEF/Quarterly/February_2007/Lin.pdf
Rajmaan (talk) 10:57, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  republican china's frontier policies 

message: http://books.google.com/books?id=FdPQESuM7eUC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
Rajmaan (talk) 21:19, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Qing Colonial Enterprise: Ethnography and Cartography in Early Modern China By Laura Hostetler 

message: In theory, under chinese law, the government helps all minorities equally. In practice, the chinese government only gives extra funds and affirmative actions to religious minorities like hui muslims, while ignoring ethnic minorities.
http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/research/drrc/research/working-papers/~/media/Files/Research/DRRC/WorkingPapers/Working%20Paper%20Archives/Number367.ashx
Rajmaan (talk) 10:52, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for finding that. I'm adding it to Affirmative action in China. WhisperToMe (talk) 06:32, 10 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  Unfortunately I found the paper states "Extremely preliminary version. Please do not cite or circulate. All comments and suggestions are appreciated." I'll make a note of it in the article talk page, but I can't cite this right now. WhisperToMe (talk) 06:36, 10 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Affirmative action in china in practice is only given to religious minorities 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: As eye catching and interesting as it may seem on first viewing, does an ethnic map of China from 1983 really provide us with much useful information? It is not the norm to lead an article on ethnic minorities with a breakdown of the locations of each ethnicity 36 years ago (See, for example, here, here & here, which either lead with a modern breakdown, or with no map at all).
On the few examples I found of articles containing maps that are just an antiquated, they were not used as prominently as the map is here, and the production date was clearly displayed in the caption to avoid any confusion with a modern day map, unlike here, where said information is nested as a note. As the note itself even admits, in a country like China in particular, with high internal migration of people groups, maps can become very outdated in even a short time, nevermind 36 years!
I'm all for keeping the map in some form, perhaps nested lower in the article and preferably used to contrast the ethnic makeup of China 36 years ago compared to today, but currently the only purpose it seems to serve is to a) act as a battle ground between those who want the caption to read 'China' and those who want it to read as 'China & Taiwan' and b) to confuse readers into thinking that the map represents the current ethnic make-up of China.
 Curt内蒙 21:20, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead Image 

message: Why does this article features so prominently tables on the Han Chinese (their languages, subgroups etc.) when they are not an ethnic minority in China? Unless there is a good reason to keep them there, they need to be removed or moved somewhere else. Hzh (talk) 11:25, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I have removed them for now, a good reason is needed to restore them. Hzh (talk) 11:43, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Han Chinese people are not an ethnic minority in China 

message: The following paragraph is completely copied, word for word, from the cited source (31). I suggest that the author either rephrases or removes the text in it's entirety, as it stands in violation with copyright laws.
"the Chinese government is taking draconian measures to slash birth rates among Uighurs and other minorities as part of a sweeping campaign to curb its Muslim population, even as it encourages some of the country's Han majority to have more children.[31] While individual women have spoken out before about forced birth control, the practice is far more widespread and systematic than previously known, according to an AP investigation based on government statistics, state documents and interviews with 30 ex-detainees, family members and a former detention camp instructor. The campaign over the past four years in the far west region of Xinjiang is leading to what some experts are calling a form of "demographic genocide".[31]" Herooow (talk) 19:09, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Guarantee of rights and interests