Talk:List of VFL/AFL pre-season and night series premiers

message: Recently this article (and the numerous copies of it under other titles) has been editted drastically, with most of the changes about the grouping, classifying or titles of the various competitions over the years.  My reasons for my latest reverting of BrianBeahr's edits is as follows.  
#This is a list of premiers.  It does not need to go into exact detail of name changes, qualifications, etc.  That should all be in the "main" associated article Australian Football League pre-season competition.   The lead paragraph should follow the opening sentence and Stand alone list lead and selection criteria guidelines, stating that This is a complete list of Xs, and it should have a link to the "main" article, which I did add, but it was removed.  
#The phrase National Cup is not used by the AFL, the media or supporters in any manner in relation to these competitions, so it shouldn't be used here.  Pre-season Cup, Pre-season competition, pre-season series are all OK, but never "National".
#The consolation series also seems like a good description of it, but the reference I've added doesn't call it that, just "night Premiership" and "The night series has been described as a 'loser's championship'", so consolation should only be used as a descriptor, not as the title.
#The use of VFL Night Series and the split between VFL and AFL gives undue weight to the name change and not enough weight to the change from a mid-year series to the pre-season series.  The name change was purely cosmetic, the change in the timing was more significant.  On the otherhand, the official AFL annual record books make no distinction/separation between the 'consolation' night series, the 70s/80s night series and the 90s/00s pre-season comp.  All are grouped together.
Hope all of these edits make sense and that we can make this article better together, not just squabble over the minor details. The-Pope (talk) 23:28, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: 1 competition or many?

message: Mr 60.240.118.WHYDONTYOUREGISTER seems intent on making the Double Premiership section complicated and hard to read.  After persisting with a two table design for a while, he's now moved to a double line design.  So, maybe I'm unique in not thinking that it's difficult to read, so can other users please decide whether this is a clear and concise table:
Season	Premier 	Runner Up   	Score                     	Venue         	Attendance	Premiership
1984  	Essendon	Sydney Swans	13.11 (89) - 5.8 (38)     	Waverley Park 	30,824    	Pre-Season''
1984  	Essendon	Hawthorn    	14.21 (105) - 12.9 (81)   	MCG           	92,685    	AFL Grand Final
1986  	Hawthorn	Carlton     	9.12 (66) - 5.6 (36)      	Waverley Park 	19,627    	Pre-Season''
1986  	Hawthorn	Carlton     	16.14 (110) - 9.14 (68)   	MCG           	101,861   	AFL Grand Final
1988^ 	Hawthorn	Geelong     	10.10 (70) - 9.13 (67)    	Waverley Park 	35,803    	Pre-Season''
1988  	Hawthorn	Melbourne   	22.20 (152) - 6.20 (56)   	MCG           	93,754    	AFL Grand Final
1993  	Essendon	Richmond    	14.18 (102) - 11.13 (79)  	Waverley Park 	75,533    	Pre-Season''
1993  	Essendon	Carlton     	20.13 (133) - 13.11 (89)  	MCG           	96,862    	AFL Grand Final
2000  	Essendon	Kangaroos   	16.21 (117) - 11.10 (76)  	MCG           	56,720    	Pre-Season''
2000  	Essendon	Melbourne   	19.21 (135) - 11.9 (75)   	MCG           	96,249    	AFL Grand Final
2009  	Geelong 	Collingwood 	0.18.19 (127) - 1.6.6 (51)	Etihad Stadium	37,277    	Pre-Season''
2009  	        	St Kilda    	12.8 (80) - 9.14 (68)     	MCG           	99,251    	AFL Grand Final
or is this preferable?
Year	Double premier	Pre-season runner up	Pre-season grand final scores	Premiership runner up	Premiership grand final scores
1984	Essendon      	Sydney Swans        	13.11 (89) - 5.8 (38)        	Hawthorn             	14.21 (105) - 12.9 (81)
1986	Hawthorn      	Carlton             	9.12 (66) - 5.6 (36)         	Carlton              	16.14 (110) - 9.14 (68)
1988	Hawthorn      	Geelong             	10.10 (70) - 9.13 (67)       	Melbourne            	22.20 (152) - 6.20 (56))
1991	Hawthorn      	North Melbourne     	14.19 (103) - 7.12 (54)      	West Coast           	20.19 (139) - 13.8 (86)
1993	Essendon      	Richmond            	14.18 (102) - 11.13 (79)     	Carlton              	20.13 (133) - 13.11 (89)
2000	Essendon      	Kangaroos           	16.21 (117) - 11.10 (76)     	Melbourne            	19.21 (135) - 11.9 (75)
2009	Geelong       	Collingwood         	0.18.19 (127) - 1.6.6 (51)   	St Kilda             	12.8 (80) - 9.14 (68)
is clearer, especially when you consider that the full details are provide in the tables earlier in the article, or in the links provided in the table for the "season proper" Grand Final.The-Pope (talk) 12:58, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Double Premierships