Talk:Gregory Bateson

message: I have found this webpage 
http://www.interculturalstudies.org/resources.html
Where there are links to material (and some photos) of G. Bateson and M. Mead.
I got it through the picture of the couple in the book Conway, F., and Siegelman, J., 2005. Dark Hero of the Information Age: in search of Norbert Wiener, the father of cybernetics. Basic Books, New York. 423pp. . In the book there is a really nice picture of the two of them. Maybe The authors can be contacted to find out how to get that picture, since, apparently the library of congress has put some of the material in public domain: http://www.interculturalstudies.org/resources.html#rights
Kakila (talk) 08:48, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture for the article 

message: Cybernetic epistemology redirects here, at the page Gregory Bateson but there is no explanation of it. I'm not knowledgeable enough to write about Cybernetic epistemology so I leave this note for someone else. Thanks! --phauly (talk) 09:23, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cybernetic epistemology 

message: The article is quite short and I intend to expand it. 
For example the definition  of "double bind" does not explain what is not banal about this concept and overvalues its importance in the etiology of schizoprenia, while neglecting its value as na example of the way diferent levels of comunicution lead to paradox.
Time allowing I will provide more extented descripition of double bind.
I have edited some of the text explainig why Bateson still sems hard to understand.  
I am very tired just now and wil continue, hoping to attract more attention to this article. 
Georgius 22:34, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  The article is quite short and I intend to expand it. 

message: I doubt that the definition  "knowledge is a difference that makes a difference that makes a difference" is really by Bateson. 
I have read most of "Steps to an Ecology of Mind" and have never found it.
I know that he wrote "information is a difference that makes a difference" in the article "Form, Substance and Difference" (p459 of the 6th ed. of Steps to an Ecology of Mind)and I know that it makes sense to define knowledge that way, I just am not shure that Bateson himself did it.
BTW what about this gem: "No man can go to bed with the same girl for the first time twice." (Bateson paraphrasing Heraclitus. in: The Logical Degrees of Learning and Communication. p288 of the above edition) Or would you consider this rude/off topic? 
--KoenigChristoph
------------
I think you should check "mind and nature" (1979) for the difference stuff. It might be in steps as well, but in M&N it is even in the glossary.
And I liked the quote about the girl even though I don't really understand the passages where occurs completely, to be honest.
Pete
--------------------
The particular quote is in Steps to an Ecology of Mind on pg 318 "a difference which makes a difference is an idea or unit of information".  It is in the section "Epistemology of Cybernetics" in the Essay The Cybernetics of Self: A Theory of Alcoholism".  Hope that helps :/
Robin Bennet  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.215.2.6 (talk) 20:21, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is the defintion of knowledge really by bateson? 

message: Gregory Bateson :"Mind and Nature, a necessary unity" (1979):
: Part III, Multiple Versions of the World.
: 1) The Case of Difference :
: " To produce news of difference, i.e. information, there must be two entities (real or imagined) such that the difference between them can be immanent in their mutual relationship; and the whole affair must be such that news of their difference can be represented as a difference inside some information-processing entity, such as a brain or perhaps, a computer." (my copy, Bantam New Age Books -am I giving anything away here?- April,1980 pg 76)
: ...on discussing a chalkmark on a blackboard ( Part IV, Criteria of Mental Processes/Criterion 2):
:"Kant argued long ago that this piece of chalk contains a million potential facts (Tatsachen) but that only a very few of these become truly facts by affecting the behaviour of entities capable of responding to facts. For Kant's Tatsachen, I would substitute differences and point out that the number of potential differences in this chalk is infinite but that very few of them become effective differences (i.e., items of information) in the mental process of any larger entity. Information consists of differences that make a difference" (op.cit.pg 110) 
I'm sorry to say I know ZILTZ about computers.
: I virtually shake your hand(s), (Lunarian 11:57, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: A Little Bit Of Difference

message: If it was the unconventional nature of "Bateson's style" which led to misunderstanding, I wonder whether it was his writing style (which certainly makes sense, and ought to be made explicit), his lifestyle, or some other sort of style, and what sort of confusion resulted therefrom. D021317c 10:48, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Same could be said of Wittgenstein or Nietzsche couldn't it? --RichardVeryard (talk) 18:00, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bateson's style 

message: The following parts are removed from the article for the moment:
* In academic circles he is something of a cult figure whose appeal includes his obscurity, eccentricity and diversity of accomplishment. (Fact) Still, the rise of interest in holism, systems, and cybernetics have naturally led educators and students to Bateson's published work. (Fact|date=July 2007)
* Bateson worked with Margreth Mead
* Mead readily acknowledged that she had been devastated when Bateson left her and that she remained in love with him to her life's end, keeping his photograph by her bedside wherever she traveled.(fact)
* By his own admission Bateson is widely misunderstood, and the unconventionality of his style might be largely at fault. Bateson did not have much respect for contemporary academic scientific standards of writing (Fact|date=July 2007), his works have often the form of an essay rather than a scientific paper, he used a lot of metaphors and his choice of sources tended to be unusual (for example citing old poets and ignoring recent scientific sources).(Fact|date=July 2007) At the same time, he wrote  on a very abstract level.  However, many scholars consider his works to contain a great deal of original thought and to reward careful reading.(Fact|date=July 2007) He has been a very important inspiration in the field of family therapy, and Neuro Linguistic Programming, having served as a mentor to both Richard Bandler and John Grinder and introducing them to medical hypnotist Milton Erickson, and a strong influence on Bradford Keeney.(Fact|date=February 2007)
When references are available, these remarks can be placed back. - Mdd 22:57, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Parts moved from the article 

message: A number of items were added into the template under "Notable Ideas", including NLP and Brief therapy. I think this is a little misleading. These are essentially practical applications of Bateson's ideas by other people - Bandler and Grinder in the case of NLP, Haley and others in the case of brief therapy. I have therefore moved these items into the "Influenced" section, and put in a couple of Bateson's own ideas into the "Notable Ideas" section, namely double-loop/deutero learning (there ought to be an article on this - it is widely used by later writers such as Chris Argyris) and Schismogenesis. --RichardVeryard 09:28, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, thanks for this explanation. - Mdd 17:34, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Template Content: Notable ideas versus Influenced 

message: This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 04:04, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject class rating

message: "# The map is not the territory, and the name is not the thing named. Coined by Alfred Korzybski." purloined from AristotleWblakesxwblakesx  —Preceding comment was added at 02:26, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The map 

message: I can't believe that this entry so utterly scants Bateson's time in New Guinea and Bali, which must have been crucial to his intellectual development.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Purslane (talk • contribs) 18:16, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nothing about Bateson's anthropological work 

message: Don't this subject deserve a section about the criticisms voiced against his theories?
Marius 193.75.62.253 (talk) 14:06, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: A neutral, well-sourced section on the public reception of Bateson's ideas would be appropriate. — goethean ॐ 15:08, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism 

message: No citation for this statement "The perceived symptoms and confusing statements of schizophrenics were therefore an expression of this distress, and should be valued as a cathartic and transformative experience." Suspect author slipped in catharsis and transformative from a non-Bateson transpersonal psychological framework for understanding schizophrenia. Suggest this be deleted.
Wiltonhall (talk) 04:35, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Double bind 

message: Hi all. Just created a section on "Philosophy" that I hope can grow into a clear overview of Bateson's outlook. The article could use a description of Batesons patterns of thought, treated separately from the chronology of his work. At first I wanted to call the section "A philosophy of relationships", but I decided this was limiting and discouraged expansion. I invite people to come up with better/different names, and to contribute to an overview of Bateson's thinking. love, groupuscule (talk) 09:16, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  'Philosophy' section 

message: Hiroki Kikuta was heavily inspired by Bateson's work (specifically Mind and Nature) and named several of the tracks on the Seiken Densetsu soundtrack after his ideas.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.201.242.106 (talk) 22:44, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  In Pop Culture 

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message: The sources cited in this section have little or no value, since they all refer to "Steps to an Ecology of Mind," without ever giving page numbers. Since "Steps..." is a long and complex book, and since the section in question often uses different phrasing and terminology than Bateson himself, it is virtually impossible to trace the statements in the wikipedia text back to their source(s). Filursiax (talk) 16:11, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: The same seems to be true with the section "The role of somatic change in evolution": all sources are the same article, without any page numbers Filursiax (talk) 16:19, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources in section: "Ecological anthropology and cybernetics"