Talk:Clan Gayre

message: A very strange addition has been made under the "See also" section, by an anonymous editor from Minneapolis.  It reads more like something to have in the "Talk" section than in the article itself.  It states
"Reinold Died in 1996 His son now lives at Minard Castle. Gayre was originally spelled Gair or Gaire amongst a multitude of other configurations. This is only speculation, however, the difficulty with the name seems to have crippled Gaire's mark in history as a old clan, which it most certainly is. [1] [2] one link posted below is a free resource on rootsweb for people also researching this family. Gayre is a surprisingly big family of Highlanders also from Cornwall. They only seem to be divided by the difference in sir name that inevitably will flux through generations. Like when some of them migrated to The Americas, for example. The last name Gay, Gaylord, Gayer, Gaire, Gayre, and Garrison are all finding traces within their family history. This is an ongoing topic of research. Gayre is pronounced with like <Gy-æ-irr> (try to roll your tongue on the r) this is an old family thing I've been told from everyone. Can not verify yet."
It may be news to our anonymous editor, but WP articles are not the place for things that one "can not verify yet".  Also, the claim that the spelling of the Clan' "name seems to have crippled Gaire's mark in history as a old clan, which it most certainly is," is bogus, and so are the two "references" it cites -- one to Gayre's own writings, the other to a dead website.  Again, the onus is on the claimant to support their claim, not on the skeptic to refute it.  If he believes that "Clan Gayre" is an "old clan", he needs to cite some pre-Robert Gayre sources to support it.  Both the editor of the Glasgow Herald and Guy Stair Sainty (author of Burke's Peerage's 2-volume set "World Orders of Knighthood and Merit") declared in print that Gayre created the entire clan from scratch.  Finally, it's a fact that both Robert Gayre and his direct ancestors were born with the "Gair" spelling, and that Robert Gair legally changed the spelling of his surname to "Gayre" during the time that he was creating the claims of "Clan Gayre"; that's considerably different from just variations or evolutions in a surname's spelling.
I would suggest that this entire new section be removed.  If the editor wants to include the claims that he makes in it, he first sign in, and then should fit them into the body of the article, properly referenced with reliable third-party sources. Bricology (talk) 19:37, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree totally with Bricology. I suggest that Sunday the 1st of September 2013 be the date for removal of the rubbish. Four and a half months should have been enough time for the editor to make the relevant changes. Kiltpin (talk) 11:32, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  "See also" 

message: I am struggling to find if a Clan Gayre actually exists. The Standing Council of Scottish Chiefs does not recognise a chief of Clan Gayre, at least not on their website. The Clan Encyclopedia that is approved by the council, lists it as an Armigerous clan. I can also not find any websites to support the existence of a Clan Gayre. It think this should go in the Armigerous clans list unless it can be proved that there is a recognised chief. QuintusPetillius (talk) 09:37, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: As was pointed out above, the Council is a private group with no authority.  The only person who can recognize a legitimate clan chief is Lord Lyon, King of Arms, acting on behalf of the Scottish crown.  By awarding them a grant of undifferenced arms -- and differenced arms to any other members of the clan who may successfully petition for them -- Lord Lyon recognizes their existence.  I say "recognizes," because most clan chiefs were also at least holders of minor baronies, or otherwise noteworthy enough to have had their arms recorded in various official or unofficial rolls at some point between 1150-1500.  Robert Gair mightily confused things by changing his name to "Gayre of Gayre and Nigg," since that suggests that he is the laird of two minor baronies, but does so without Lord Lyon's blessing.  I don't know enough to say whether or not Gayre or Nigg were actual historical baronies, or mostly wishful thinking, but the ultimate answer would be in Lord Lyon's office.  The Gayre grants/matriculations of arms should cover all that, so if you really want to know, that's where you should look.  68.183.201.246 (talk) 18:31, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Clan Gayre - an Armigerous clan ?

message: I find it more than slightly ridiculous that someone has added the section "Clan crests & badges", which takes up an entire screen-height -- more than half of the article!  I say "ridiculous" because the WP articles for such well-known clans as Campbell, MacDonald and Douglas don't include anything anything like this, despite their chiefs each possessing verifiable arms, and also because whoever posted it seems to be under the misconception that a coat of arms can belong to a clan, rather than (as they must) to one armigerous individual.  The arms described could only ever belong to one man.  Who was that man and who granted him arms?  I have no idea.  But a search through the official Scottish database of arms shows that no arms were granted to anyone by the name "Gayre" between 1672 and 1913.  Consequently, I am going to remove the section. Bricology (talk) 16:09, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. This whole thing is ridiculous. Dougweller (talk) 08:58, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Coat of arms 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070312024217/http://www.myclan.com/clans/Gayre_209/ to http://www.myclan.com/clans/Gayre_209/
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thread_title:  External links modified