Talk:Ceredigion

message: On the understanding that the Ceredigion/Cardiganshire debate is over (see below), please allow me to raise a different issue. Should a Wikipedia article be referring to this county as a desert? I have only ever heard this word used in the phrase 'green desert' when referring to mid Wales - used in the sense that few people live here. For those not familiar with the UK or with Ceredigion, the word desert without clarification is likely to give the wrong impression. I realise that there is a link to another article 'desert of Wales', but I think that a brief clarification should occur within the article.  Dalekmikey 16:03, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: desert?

message: I removed the 'league table' of school results because Estyn doesn't inspect schools annually, so the exam results cited won't necessarily be directly comparable. People may be aware that since 2001, the Assembly Government hasn't published individual school performance information. Information on individual schools is still available in prospectuses and governors’ annual reports, but adding them all together to produce a local league table may violate WP:SYNTH. Pondle (talk) 23:38, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  School league table 

message: So I see this 'merger' has been pushed through by three editors in the space of three days! What nonsense. It goes against all policies to have separate articles for separate things even though they happen to geographically overlap. It has totally ignored the debate above that suggested no such merger was possible or desirable. It is not so much a merger as a plain redirect. There has been precisely no merging at all. Owain (talk) 12:34, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nonsense merge 

message: There are two very similar maps on the page. There has been plenty of useful discussion above about the various names and areas. So far we have no references to the differences (if there are any) in the areas covered by the various incarnations. There is just an un sourced assertion in the lead that they are "largely identical". If there are differences, it might then be worthwhile having two maps, or one map with the differences indicated. As it is at present one of the maps seems redundant.SovalValtos (talk) 11:44, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Maps and boundaries 

message: . Was it intentional to talk extensively about Cardiganshire with "Cardiganshire had a substantial population in the early modern period but this declined during the nineteenth century as wider social and economic developments affected all aspects of Cardiganshire life. Traditional industries were in decline, agriculture was in decline and it was becoming increasingly difficult for a still-rising population to earn a living within their native parishes and communities. By the first half of the twentieth century, falling livestock prices and greater world competition made farming unprofitable and many residents of Ceredigion moved to other parts of South Wales, where there were better employment opportunities, and many more emigrated to the United States, Canada, Patagonia and Australia.[11] Another factor was that the great landed estates of the county, which for so long had dominated the politics of the county, were in many cases heavily in debt. This second factor contributed to the loss of landowner influence in the politics of the county, a trend that became very apparent at the first elections to the Cardiganshire County Council in 1889.[20" ? It's a different county today. 
I would expect the landmarks section to have some prose sections summarising them here rather than a bulleted list. Also I thought there might be mention of sport and education. Isn't fishing worth mentioning in the economy? I always though some of those towns on that coast were fishing ones.♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:38, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: The source used Cardiganshire so I did likewise. You could say that the term "Ceredigion" is political, a determination to revert to a previously used Welsh name in an effort to retain the "Welshness" of the county. I suppose I should be consistent and call the county Cardiganshire up till 1996 and Ceredigion thereafter. I could expand the local landmarks into a prose section. Education and sport would be difficult; I've mentioned the universities and the schools differ little from those in other parts of Wales; I don't think there are any Ceredigion sporting teams at county level. Fishing nowadays is a leisure activity and not a commercial one I think. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:59, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I suppose that it's relevant to history before 1996. What about subdivisions? Communities/parishes? Usually county articles have a sub structure like that and identify them. For sport I was thinking of something like I added to Vale of Glamorgan (though I've not finished sourcing and continuing with it and that article yet). Find the main towns and what teams are in them and try to compile something half decent for sport. Doesn't need much, but I think a basic good article on a county should try to outline things like sport and education, even if brief.♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:49, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I will work along the lines you suggest tomorrow. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:57, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: That looks fine. I think all it needs now is to flesh out the landmarks section with a summary of the most notable buildings and nuke the bulleted list, add some pretty images to that section and this will be looking good enough.♦ Dr. Blofeld 07:42, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cardiganshire 

message: More historical info available at the EB articles linked, although note that they seem to give the wrong actors for the Battle of Crug Mawr. — LlywelynII 15:59, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources for article expansion 

message: The above line in the lead references EB1878 for "Cardigan" and EB1911 for "Cardiganshire". The problem with this is that EB1878 omits the "shire" from "Xshire" in its articles where X is a town (e.g. Worcester, York). Whereas EB1911 doesn't. Neither are much use as references in this way. According to the Cardigan article, "Cardigan" is an Anglicisation of "Ceredigion", but it doesn't follow that that Anglicisation had to be applied to the whole county unqualified. More than likely, the name "Cardigan" for the county was of the form "County of Cardigan", as was the case for counties in the medieval era. Can we change that line in the lead to something like "Known for centuries in English as Cardiganshire, it began to be administered as a county in 1282"? --Inops (talk) 13:56, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I suspect it is unclear whether the English name Cardigan was first applied to the town or to the county (or the area). The name Cardiganshire could be derived from the English name of the town, or it could have been introduced for disambiguation between a town and a county that had the same name.  I agree that the 1878 and 1911 editions of the Encyclopedia Britannica are poor sources for this. I support ' proposed text. Verbcatcher (talk) 03:48, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  "the name was anglicised to Cardigan and then Cardiganshire" 

message: I rather agree User:Gareth Griffith-Jones that one simple image in the info-box would be of benefit. The rural nature of the county is mentioned in several sections although there are also cultural aspects and buildings of interest. Might some image similar to  suit. The combination of foreground coastal material and then farming and mountains is what I have in mind. It would help if it were a large file.SovalValtos (talk) 12:34, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank  for your support.Yes, I like your example. We must wait for responses from others. Cheers!Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 17:07, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: So do I like the example. Be bold. Cheers, both. Tony Holkham (Talk) 12:03, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I have added the image, Melindwr, Eglwys Fach to the Info' box.In my opinion, we don't need a "caption".do   agree?Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 13:42, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with the addition for now, and that it does not need a caption. I due course a better single image may be uploaded or found but this is better than the previous collage.SovalValtos (talk) 13:50, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank . I quite agree.Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 13:53, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

text: Thanks, both. I deleted the Carmarthenshire montage, BTW. Tony Holkham (Talk) 13:56, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I noticed. You beat me to it. Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 14:02, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Info box image 

message: I cannot see how including English approximations of a Welsh name is reasonable when they are potentially limitless. If you take 10 English speakers unfamiliar with the name 'Ceredigion' and ask them to describe it phonetically, you may very well end up with 10 approximations. The Welsh pronunciation is standard and consistent. Even if some of the more common English approximations are sourced, it doesn't change the above. This is simply giving weight to a whim based on it being published. At the very least, I believe that it would be advantageous to note that they are approximations and only exist (imperfectly) in relation to the standard Welsh name. English speakers from Ceredigion, or those settled there, use the Welsh pronunciation, after all. 2A00:23EE:1940:1DA5:259F:3258:4982:3C2C (talk) 21:11, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: We go with what reliable sources say. Please stop removing cited material. This is the English-language Wikipedia, so referenced material giving English pronunciations is perfectly proper. DuncanHill (talk) 21:15, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: You seem unhappy even when the English pronunciations are kept but follow the Welsh pronunciation of which they are approximations. There is a standard and consistent Welsh name; the English pronunciations are approximations of that name. That is not a novel interpretation, but how it is. Surely it makes sense for the approximations to follow the Welsh pronunciation they are dependent on? 2A00:23EE:1940:1DA5:259F:3258:4982:3C2C (talk) 21:30, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

text: Read MOS:DUALPRON. English comes first. FutureFlowsLoveYou (talk) 21:37, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Golwg unllygeidiog yw golwg yr uniaith. 2A00:23EE:1940:1DA5:259F:3258:4982:3C2C (talk) 21:41, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name