Talk:The Doobie Brothers

message: I have written a substantial portion of this article and most of my non-NPOV fanisms have been properly edited or removed over time, in accordance with Wikipedia policy. Recent edits have added substantial non-NPOV opinion regarding Michael McDonald and Sibling Rivalry. I modified it once, but the user essentially reverted my edits and restored his strong, non-NPOV opinions. In my view, this violates Wikipedia's NPOV policy and allows a single user's opinions to hijack the article. However, since I am not interested in engaging in running combat with other users, I'm going to leave it to someone else to decide whether the article, in its current form, is consistent with Wikipedia's NPOV policy.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.97.239.130 (talk) 18:09, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: NPOV Violations

message: In describing "What a Fool Believes", this article claims "A glance at the sheet music for this pop gem quickly impresses one with the degree of musical complexity the composers managed to pack into a #1 pop hit, an almost unheard-of blend of sophistication with accessibility". I'm not sure if the articles' author was being sarcastic here or really believes (as fools often do), that this pathetic piece of disco drivel has some hidden musical merit. At least the early Doobie Brothers songs were original and good listening (o.k., maybe this one was easier to dance to).173.61.156.104 (talk) 14:38, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: With all due respect, if there are no citations it is POV regardless of how accurate that POV may be.THX1136 (talk) 18:59, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with THX1136.  Also, no flaming, please.  (I myself have no particular interest in the Doobies, but I care a lot about the integrity of Wikipedia, and sustaining the courtesy of its community.) Acwilson9 (talk) 00:00, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Fanisms & opinions

message: Where are they from though? --71.112.134.81 02:06, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: San Francisco--Bamadude 00:58, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Origins

message: The album "On Our Way Up" I have learned to be an unauthorized release of early Doobie Brothers demos from 1970. As such I think it shouldn't be included and I am therefore removing it from the list. It's a bootleg in other words.--Peter Jensen 04:51, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The album "On Our Way Up" is a bootleg 

message: :Image:Minutedooobie.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:11, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Minutedooobie.jpg

message: See Wikipedia:Footnotes for an explanation of how to generate footnotes using the <ref(erences/)> tags Nhl4hamilton (talk) 09:00, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Citations & References

message: It looks like there was a former members section before, but has since been removed. Infobox has a link that when I accessed it tried to go to #Former members or something. I just changed to the target to #Band because that's the closest thing on this page that resemebles without changing the link text. As it is now, though, is kinda misdirectional. If someone who works this page often could fix that up that'd be awesome.The freddinator (talk) 03:10, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Former Members 

message: It states in the caption that the concert was held at Wolf Trap.  But in the description it says that the concert was in Australia.  Which one is right? 76.111.67.200 (talk) 00:03, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Top image 

message: This article is full of puffery, promotional language, and is generally in a non-NPOV state.  I added the puffery tag because I don't have time at the moment to tackle it (it's going to be a bit of work), but it definitely needs a major overhaul. Qwyrxian (talk) 12:25, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Puffery 

message: Ry Cooder is said to have added "slinky" sound.  The use of this word can be traced to some music reviewers, but what place does it have here in a Wikipedia article without such a reference given that wiktionary.org is of no help. Is this a pastiche from uncredited music magazine articles?  Who wrote "slinky" of Ry Cooder with regard to a side cut with this band?
I listen to Ry Cooder and "slinky" means nothing to me.  
What is disturbing is to see the sheer bulk of this article with so little content by which a reader, say a classical musician, could form some opinion of what to expect of a recording by this "band".
Or is the article only intended for fans?  Is there a Fan-pedia on the web?
G. Robert Shiplett 22:18, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  define "slinky" or add ref 

message: Doobie Brothers#Band_members could be summarized (or perhaps replaced) by a "EasyTimeline".  Here's an example as a starting point:
ImageSize = width:800 height:140
PlotArea = left:60 bottom:60 top:0 right:50
Alignbars = justify
DateFormat  = yyyy
Period = from:1970 till:2014
TimeAxis = orientation:horizontal format:yyyy
ScaleMajor = unit:year increment:5 start:1970
Colors =
  id:brown   value:rgb(0.5, 0.25, 0)
LineData =
  at:1975 color:black layer:back
  at:1982 color:brown layer:back
  at:1987 color:brown layer:back
  at:1995 color:black layer:back
  at:2005 color:black layer:back
BarData =
  bar:TJohnston text:"Johnston"
  bar:PSimmons  text:"Simmons"
  bar:JHartman  text:"Hartman"
  bar:MHossack  text:"Hossack †"
  bar:KKnudsen  text:"Knudsen †" 
PlotData =
  width:10 textcolor:black align:left anchor:from shift:(10,-4)
  bar:TJohnston from:1970 till:1977 color:yellow
  bar:TJohnston from:1987 till:end  color:yellow
  bar:PSimmons  from:1970 till:1982 color:green
  bar:PSimmons  from:1987 till:end color:green
  bar:JHartman  from:1971 till:1979 color:red
  bar:JHartman  from:1987 till:1997 color:red
  bar:MHossack  from:1971 till:1973 color:blue
  bar:MHossack  from:1987 till:2012 color:blue
  bar:KKnudsen  from:1973 till:1982 color:orange
  bar:KKnudsen  from:1987 till:1988 color:orange
  bar:KKnudsen  from:1993 till:2005 color:orange
For this example I limited myself to five members, and used brown vertical bars to mark the period when they were disbanded.
You'll have to view the source of this talk section to see how how I did this, but here's the crucial bit of syntax to note:
  bar:TJohnston from:1970 till:1977 color:yellow
  bar:TJohnston from:1987 till:end  color:yellow
  bar:PSimmons  from:1970 till:1982 color:green
  bar:PSimmons  from:1987 till:end  color:green
  bar:JHartman  from:1971 till:1979 color:red
  bar:JHartman  from:1987 till:1997 color:red
  bar:MHossack  from:1971 till:1973 color:blue
  bar:MHossack  from:1987 till:2012 color:blue
  bar:KKnudsen  from:1973 till:1982 color:orange
  bar:KKnudsen  from:1987 till:1988 color:orange
  bar:KKnudsen  from:1993 till:2005 color:orange
What do you think? 68.165.77.221 (talk) 23:22, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Membership timeline 

message: You are invited to participate in an RfC at Wikipedia talk:Requests for mediation/The Beatles on the issue of capitalising the definite article when mentioning that band's name in running prose. This long-standing dispute is the subject of an open mediation case and we are requesting your help with determining the current community consensus. Thank you.--andreasegde (talk) 07:44, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  the/The 

message: The following sentence seems to be blatant POV - "No fans of rock music were sad at the death of the band, nor would ever miss the soft-rock noodlings of a once-enjoyable pop group."
I was tempted to remove it, but after reading the "silliness" that has occurred on this article on doing this sort of editing I would rather give others a chance to offer an opinion before doing so. The ball is in your court, so to speak. If no comments are offered within 30 days or so I will remove the offending sentence. Thoughts?THX1136 (talk) 15:57, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Non POV question 

message: Support split - The list of band members takes up more than one quarter of the page, and should be split to a new article entitled List of The Doobie Brothers band members.  Thoughts? --Jax 0677 (talk) 15:48, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that would be fine. The problem is that currently the section has no references – and you can't very well create an article (and expect it not to be deleted) without sources. So, I think we need to concentrate on improving the section first. (By the way, the link in the template redirects back.) —Musdan77 (talk) 01:38, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Associated issue:  Member Timeline excludes a number of the members.  This should be fixed.  (I am not knowledgeable enough about the Doobies to do this myself.) Acwilson9 (talk) 23:54, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of The Doobie Brothers band members 

message: "This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons."
And the article United States "contains material about living persons" and therefore must immediately be edited to conform to standards, as well as be properly integrated into WikiProject Biography.
The same claim can as validly be made for Walmart or Python (programming language) or other bands (Deep Purple, say) or a million other articles.
MY SUGGESTION: if the "biographical" data in articles such as this is actually being upheld as of such significance, then it should be removed to actual biographical articles to which any reader can readily click.
One set of standards, equally applied!
Weeb Dingle (talk) 19:13, 4 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Bands/groups are made up of members and all these members are "persons" (mostly "living"). You can't very well talk about a band without talking about what the members did (allegedly). What they did is biographical, and as such, follows WP:Biographies of living persons, which basically means that the claims made should be according to WP:V -- as well as WP:NPOV. (By the way, those things you put in bold should be blue instead [wikilinks].) —Musdan77 (talk) 00:25, 6 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with Musdan77 (except possibly for fake bands - perhaps The Archies? (JOKE!)). Acwilson9 (talk) 23:28, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: since when is a BAND a "living person"?

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello,
I would like to discuss making a change to the “Members” section of this page. Specifically, in the “Former Touring Members,” “Official Member Timeline,” and “Touring Member Timeline” sections.
I am suggesting that Bobby Lakind and Willie Weeks be removed from the “Former Touring Members” and “Touring Member Timeline” and added to the “Official Member Timeline.” This is because they are former members of the Doobie Brothers.
My first two examples of this are the actual albums where they are pictured and credited as band members.
If you click on “More Images” from the 1982 “Farewell Tour” album you will see Bobby Lakind and Willie Weeks have pictures dedicated to them just as the other members do, and they are both listed as members of the band in the credits:
https://www.discogs.com/The-Doobie-Brothers-Farewell-Tour/master/95299
If you click on the “More Images” from the 1989 “Brotherhood” album you will see Bobby Lakind in the band photos, as well as listed as one of the Doobie Brothers:
https://www.discogs.com/The-Doobie-Brothers-Cycles/master/95295
There are also articles from mainstream publications that refer to both Bobby Lakind and Willie Weeks as Doobie Brothers.
Here is an article from the October 11, 1980 issue of Billboard Magazine with the announcement of Willie Weeks and Bobby Lakind becoming regular members of the Doobie Brothers:
https://books.google.com/books?id=EiUEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PT102&dq=%22bobby%20lakind%22&pg=PT102#v=onepage&q&f=false
Here is a passage from the book The Encyclopedia of Popular Music that states Willie Weeks replaced Tiran Porter in the Doobie Brothers:
https://books.google.com/books?id=_NNmFiUnSmUC&lpg=PA754&dq=%22willie%20weeks%22%20%22doobie%20brothers%22&pg=PA754#v=onepage&q=%22willie%20weeks%22%20%22doobie%20brothers%22&f=false
Here is Bobby Lakind’s obituary in Variety that describes him as a “full time member” of the Doobie Brothers:
https://variety.com/1992/scene/people-news/bobby-lakind-102409/
Here is an article from the November 1989 on the Doobie Drummers. Bobby Lakind is pictured, listed, and profiled along with Michael Hossack and John Hartman:
https://moderndrummer.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/md120.pdf
Here is an article on Rhino.com about the 1987 Doobie Brothers reunion shows. It lists Bobby Lakind as one of the past members, and even explains how Willie Weeks was unavailable to join them:
https://www.rhino.com/article/rhino-historic-tours-the-doobies-do-the-hollywood-bowl
There are also interviews with members of the Doobie Brothers that mention how Bobby Lakind and Willie Weeks were members of the Doobie Brothers:
Here is a May 23, 1987 Los Angeles Times interview with Keith Knudsen about the Doobie Brothers reunion shows he put together. Bobby Lakind is listed alongside the other former members, and Willie Weeks is referred to as a former member, as well:
http://articles.latimes.com/1987-05-23/entertainment/ca-1984_1_doobies
Here is an August 30, 2015 interview with Michael McDonald that refers to Willie Weeks as a former Doobie Brother:
http://ultimateclassicrock.com/michael-mcdonald-no-lookin-back/
Here is a January 19, 2016 interview with Tom Johnston in Goldmine Magazine where he discusses how everyone in the band was invited to the 1987 reunion shows, but Willie Weeks didn’t do it:
https://www.goldminemag.com/articles/doobie-brothers-remain-vital
Finally, there are several different band photos that include Bobby Lakind and Willie Weeks.
Here is the Doobie Brothers page on Allmusic.com. Their photo is the 1989 lineup with Bobby Lakind:
https://www.allmusic.com/artist/bobby-lakind-mn0000081563/credits
Here is the Doobie Brothers page on Setlist.com that featured Bobby Lakind and Willie Weeks in the band photo:
https://www.setlist.fm/setlists/the-doobie-brothers-63d6be43.html
The second picture on this page is from the same photo shoot as the above, and features both Willie Weeks and Bobby Lakind:
https://rockandrollphotogallery.com/artist/doobie-brothers/
And here is a third picture from that photo shoot that includes Willie Weeks and Bobby Lakind and was turned into an official press photo for the band:
https://www.wolfgangs.com/photography/the-doobie-brothers/promo-print/ZZZ031067.html
The third band picture on this page features Willie Weeks and Bobby Lakind:
http://www.bay-area-bands.com/bab00006.htm
Thank you so much for your time and consideration on this.  StrangersFan (talk) 12:13, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Members Section