Talk:Edward Hargraves

message: Introduced about the 'unique' / 'priceless' object known as "Hargraves nugget" thus :
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The University of Sydney owns a piece of gold known as the "Hargraves nugget", and which has been on display loan to various Australian museums. It is deemed to be a priceless piece of Australiana - believed by many to be what started the Gold Rush. The accepted account is that Hargraves' partners, William Tom and John Lister handed over to him all the gold they had found at Ophir — one two-ounce nugget, a 1/4-ounce (heart-shaped) nugget, one 3/5-ounce nugget, a small amount of granular gold and about 3/4 ounce of very small gold pieces. Hargraves then had his metallurgist friend, Enoch Rudder meld some of this into one lump or "nugget" to make a more impressive sight. He took that to Bathurst to talk on gold and the morning after he showed that "nugget" the rush was on to where he said it came from, later on named Ophir. The exact history of this unusual specimen has continued to be pondered on by geologists of Sydney's now defunct Geological and Mining Museum, and writers on first gold discovery such as Lynette Ramsay Silver who generated some elements of controversy following a 1997 book "Fabulous Furphies: 10 Great Myths from Australia's Past" by her and Edward Wybergh Docker, and from media interviews she gave when the nugget was on public display. Doubts expressed that it might not even be from Ophir caused the University have forensic metallurgy carried out. Results were was not fully conclusive but favoured it containing Ophir gold 
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Was pointed out that it is inadequately sourced.
A reference is this ....
58.173.27.252 (talk) 12:56, 23 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I've left what I hope is a helpful reply on your own Talk Page, John, rather than going into referencing here. Hope that's OK. Nick Moyes (talk) 15:06, 23 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hargraves nugget 

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With plenty of RS references available - a number of others claim to have discovered gold in the Bathurst area of NSW - before Hargraves' 1851 claim.  
These include: 
* James McBrien in 1823 New South Wales gold rushhttps://web.archive.org/web/20080323062121/http://users.tpg.com.au/dtdan/ophir.htm
*  Paweł Strzelecki in 1839http://mtkosciuszko.org.au/english/strzelecki-found-gold.htmIn 1839 he was the first person to discover gold in Australia, but Governor Gipps (q.v.) feared the effects of gold discovery on the colony and persuaded Strzelecki to keep it secret.https://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks15/1500721h/0-dict-biogSt-Sy.html#strzelecki1
* Reverend William Branwhite Clarke in 1841https://www.nma.gov.au/defining-moments/resources/gold-rushes
* William Tipple Smith in 1848https://www.smh.com.au/national/history-stands-corrected-smith-not-hargraves-first-to-discover-gold-in-nsw-20200902-p55rtr.htmlhttps://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-14/familys-fight-for-headstone-for-gold-and-steel-pioneer/12243464
Lynette Ramsey Silver  in A Fool's Gold? - William Tipple Smith's challenge to the Hargraves myth.   says:
 A quartz gold specimen, a few tattered, fragmented letters and an old death notice. These seemingly unrelated clues were the vital links in the solution which has put an end to the long-standing myth that Edward Hammond Hargraves was the discoverer of gold in Australia.
In 1847, mineralogist William Tipple Smith ventured into the rugged hill country near Bathurst, New South Wales and discovered payable gold. After additional successful exploration, he informed the government of his discovery. The apathy, lies and cover-up which followed form the basis of an intriguing tale of mismanagement, buck-passing and official ineptitude.
Smith’s discovery resulted for him, not in fame and fortune, but in defamation, ruin and untimely death. The government and Edward Hammond Hargraves, were so effective in the systematic destruction of Smith that the true story has remained untold for almost one hundred and forty years. Persistent detective work by the author, whose belief that an innocent man was the tragic victim of political expediency, enabled her too succeed where others have failed, resulting in a totally new interpretation of a fascinating aspect of Australian history.
The story of William Tipple Smith is the story of one man’s fight for justice and recognition long overdue. The large number of illustrations and a comprehensive document appendix make A Fool’s Gold? a valuable reference work on the history of early gold discoveries in New South Wales.  https://lynettesilver.com/books/published-books/ 
* John Lister and James Tom in 1851https://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/hargraves-edward-hammond-3719
Edward Hargraves in Australia and its Goldfields: a historical sketch of the Australian colonies from the earliest times to the present day with a particular account of the recent gold discoveries   dismissed John Lister and James Tom as, "former guides" (page 118)https://books.google.com.au/books?id=T8wNAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA1&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=3#v=onepage&q&f=false
The article needs to be better balanced by acknowledging these earlier gold discoveries.
Similarly for Australian gold rushes
Also a ==See also== section could be added with:
* Hargraves, New South Wales
* Ophir, New South Wales
Hgty6 (talk) 22:48, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article does not give sufficient credit to others before Hargraves