Talk:Chrystia Freeland

message: Is there any logical reason why the early life section at the top of this page doesn't include the most RS cited member of Freeland's family? Why is this information regulated to the bottom of the page? C.Fred mentions proper weight has been given despite the inconsistencies. How was the weight determined? Why does this page not follow the WP Biography template and include all personal/family history chronologically at the top? Iksnyrk (talk) 16:52, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I share this concern. The lead includes fairly trivial information, including details of a masters degree and other minor biographical detail. While the fact that her grandfather was a Nazi collaborator is not at all trivial. Her literary work has at times intersected with her family history and this is something she has not been candid about in the past. Any assessment of, and reference to, her relevant literary and political activities (i.e. which refer to Ukraine, Russia , Nazi-ism, etc) should therefore be properly contextualised. The strong impression here is that the very significant story about her grandfather and her own ambiguous response to his history is being left opaque. It should, in my view, be mentioned in the lead. Emmentalist (talk) 13:59, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: A subject's education and career are hardly trivial details in her own biography and they fall within WP:MOSBIO. Lead sections of biographies don't go into ancestry unless it is directly relevant (for example Justin Trudeau's father being prime minister). Her grandfather was mentioned at one point in the early life section article but it led to arguments and POV-pushing about an individual who (1) is not the subject of the article and (2) died when the subject of the article was a teen. It offered very little context to the life of the subject herself, but there is more appropriate detail offered at Michael Chomiak, Krakivs'ki Visti, and John-Paul Himka, which are described in a later section and clearly have their own articles. My view was Chomiak should be mentioned in the biography around the 2017 era of her career, when he made the news, and later in the personal life section if there is more to cover. Citing (talk) 14:28, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, @Citing I'm unconvinced by your reasoning. The question I raised was about inclusion in the lead, not in the biography. There's noting POV-pushing about including something which is literally the main story about Canada in the world at the moment; i.e. Ukrainian Nazis moving to Canada. I have no axe to grind, but I would say that the Canadian Deputy Prime Minister has never graced the pages, or even the consciousness, of most people in the world other than for the fact that her grandfather was a Nazi and she has sought to veil this. I won't make a change unless other editors agree. All the best, Emmentalist (talk) 20:15, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia is not the news. Believe it or not, the subject of this article existed before you heard of her. She's well-known for her political career and this is reflected in the reliable sources. Citing (talk) 22:19, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

text: "something which is literally the main story about Canada in the world at the moment" should not determine what is in an encyclopedia article about something else Canadian. There is a real danger in giving excess space to very recentist concerns which are pretty marginal in the life of this living person. BobFromBrockley (talk) 17:27, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

text: Can you elborate why we should deviate from WP biography standards in this case? Editors that would like to deviate from it have the burden of proof to show that their RS relevant family members should not be mentioned. Not including it will just lead to more discussions like this in the future. Are you saying you personally don't think he's relevant? Or that RS don't find him relevant to her early history? Regards Iksnyrk (talk) 20:55, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you please specify what you're talking about with respect to WP:MOSBIO? The article mentions Chomiak. Citing (talk) 22:19, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, @citing. There's a subjective element to the policies you've referred to. I won't get into wikilawyering here, but suffice to say that it'd probably be best if there's another good-faith opinion beyond me and @Iksnyrk. Across the world, harsh though it may be for Canadians, the subject of this article is best known for her grandfather's Nazi priors and her own priors in respect of seeking to deny it, thereby affecting people possible interpretation of the works cited in the lead. The grandfather should be mentioned in the lead. My opinion, only. All the best, Emmentalist (talk) 22:39, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, if you are counting votes, put me down in favor of the present organization of the article. Bruce leverett (talk) 02:34, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, @Bruce leverett. That's helpful and at present leaves any change in the balance. It's probably best left for a couple of days to see if others come in and, if no-one does, we can ask other editors for a view. All the best, Emmentalist (talk) 07:31, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

text: I would add that I am skeptical of your claim that Freeland is "best known" for her association with Chomiak.  A quick search of the newspaper in my own city (Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US) shows an article mentioning Freeland from 2018, and at least one article about the Canadian Speaker of the House inviting a Nazi to Parliament, but no articles about Freeland/Chomiak.  Freeland's remark about "Russian disinformation" does not seem to have had much effect on her political career; she subsequently became "Minister of Everything".  As a US-based Wikipedia editor, I do not feel like trying to tell the Canadians what's important and what's not important about their politicians. Bruce leverett (talk) 13:28, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

text: I'm sorry but that's an outrageous claim you are going to have to back up with evidence—blindlynx 16:21, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, @Blindlynx and @Bruce leverett. I'm in the UK, the first page of my Google News search right now (see time stamp on this post) literally includes only references to the Nazi event at the Canadian parliament. Freeland is only mentioned in the context of her relationship with her grandfather. You can make the same search if you use the relevant technology. I cannot find a single reference to Freeland in the media in the world outside of North America other than reports about her grandfather. All the best,   Emmentalist (talk) 08:57, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a WP:BLP you have to WP:PROVEIT better than that, google isn't an wp:rs; there's a lot of WP:RECENTism around the speaker of the house inviting a member of divizia that further skews things. —blindlynx 13:49, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

text: I was not able to reproduce your result, i.e. google news did not give me what it gave you. This was partly because it was a few hours later, but mostly because Google results are deliberately tailored to the user. Bruce leverett (talk) 14:43, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, @Bruce leverett An alternative methodology would be to look at the websites of newspapers not in North America. All the best, Emmentalist (talk) 16:02, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: You need to provide evidence for your claim. Google results very by person, but the top hits i got for DW, BBC, The Guardian, France24, Rzeczpospolita, NL times and Al Jazeera are all about her work as deputy PM and i didn't see any mention of her grandfather—blindlynx 16:18, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

text: I am in the UK and I know about the subject of this article for all sorts of reasons that aren't her grandfather. She was best known for her writing and in the last years for her role in Trudeau's cabinet and especially international affairs team. If I look at Google News, five of the first 10 articles are about the Hunka affair, but those five are also opinion pieces in among the most fringe websites that Google aggregates in its News (e.g. the far right Compact, the Communist Morning Star, the Trotskyist World Socialist Web Site - pretty much all yellow flagged on our perennial sources list). None of the actual news articles are about this. BobFromBrockley (talk) 17:35, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

text: I concur. It adds useful contextualization to her career and politics. local friendtalk 18:29, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Early life section

message: Why is this continually taken down? The pms kids are well known names, I had to look for 15 minutes online for her kids names for an elementary school speech. I’m confused and don’t want to be blocked I thought I was helping others by having it posted, would have saved me 15 minutes. Can someone please explain why it keeps getting taken down? Thanks 198.91.167.234 (talk) 13:44, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: it goes againt wp:NONAME —blindlynx 15:31, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Goes against what? 198.91.167.234 (talk) 15:35, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: One of them is not a minor? 198.91.167.234 (talk) 15:36, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Two of them are not minors 198.91.167.234 (talk) 15:36, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

text: see WP:BLPNAME also—blindlynx 15:37, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay thank you so much for sharing, it doesn’t mention anything about ages or gender? Can they be posted? 198.91.167.234 (talk) 17:57, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe gender but not ages? The biographies of living persons policy tends to err on the side of caution, particularly for the children of subjects. The personal life section currently states she has three children, it could probably be changed to "a son and two daughters". Citing (talk) 18:41, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you I appreciate the info 198.91.167.234 (talk) 21:30, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  I keep updating children info