Talk:Tuskegee Syphilis Study

message: This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page.  Peer reviewers: Nhuang97.
Yes Tseanamega (talk) 21:57, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

message: Proposing we cut this to just coverage that focusses on or significantly features the subject. A simple mention by a character in a show or book has given us a section full of entries that take longer to explain than they probably lasted. Seriously, ? Just no. —valereee (talk) 12:19, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  IPC section is silly 

message: The article is protected so I'm placing this here so that a registered user can make the edit:  In the paragraph that begins "Later Smith, a local PHS representative" there is a phrase duplication that was introduced when the quote was expanded upon.  The second instance of "but had tested positive when registering for the draft" should be removed.  It is not part of the quote.  See this edit.  Thank you in advance for making the correction.  2806:108E:2:A6FF:EC91:C4B8:1041:D3DA (talk) 09:51, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone has made the edit.  Thanks.  2806:108E:2:A6FF:EC91:C4B8:1041:D3DA (talk) 11:32, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested edit 

message: I will like to request a edit. As their are some important grammar mistake on this post 68.194.92.65 (talk) 00:30, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:32, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 8 August 2021 

message: Formal request has been received to merge: Guatemala syphilis experiments and Terre Haute prison experiments articles into Tuskegee Syphilis Study; dated: August 2021. Request further involves renaming the resulting merged article to United States Public Health Service Syphilis Studies.  
Proposer's Rationale: The primary reason is to more appropriately name the articles for the funding, initiating, controlling party.  Separating into three articles, each with location as the first word inappropriately obscures the driving party in all three cases, and connections between the three cases.  In the seminal informed consent cases of Auschwitz and Buchenwald, the reference names identify compounds erected or seized explicitly for inhumane purposes -- so using those names besmirches no good deeds. Moreover, Auschwitz and Buchenwald are now closed  memorials.  Though local governance failed to protect their charges from PHS abuse, PHS was the controlling actor, and earned the title role.  Wikipedia should not continue with titles that invite misinterpretation.  COVID-19 makes 2021 an especially bad time to highlight PHS errors.  Still, we Wikipedians face a recurring challenge: Where the most common phrasing distorts the known history by misreporting agency, highlighting minor parties instead of major/controlling parties -- should we continue to reinforce that distortion because it's common/popular?  While merging would make a long article, it would be far from our longest.  Bringing the articles together could better convey the connected nature of the events and improve overall reader understanding. The articles should be merged and renamed -- even if we postpone publishing the revision for some agreed interval. —User:LoneStarNot (talk • contribs) .   
Discuss here. GenQuest "scribble" 16:00, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Do not merge but most definitely create the suggested article. An article on the United States Public Health Service Syphilis Studies would be a great place to provide an overview of the programs and how they link together, since many of them had the same doctors in charge, and in many cases, one lead to the other. But each of these experiments in radically different geographic locations are distinctly different topics. Once this article exists, I'm willing to considering merging in the Terre Haute article, since it was much smaller and a lot less controversial, but merging the Guatemala and Tuskegee ones is a definite no. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 06:13, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

text: Do not merge Each article is better separate RajanD100 (talk) 06:32, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Merger proposal

message: Here is a quote from Taliaferro Clark in the article, under the "Racism" category. It says: "The rather low intelligence of the African American population, depressed economic conditions, and the common promiscuous sex relations not only contribute to the spread of syphilis but the prevailing indifference with regards to treatment." And here is what the source for this quote actually says: "The rather low intelligence of the Negro population, depressed economic conditions, and the common promiscuous sex relations not only contribute to the spread of syphilis but the prevailing indifference with regards to treatment”
When quoting a quote, it should be what was said word for word, not edited by a random person on the internet to be politically correct. I notice that the article is locked so I am unable to correct it but perhaps someone else can.
Here is a link to the source used for the quote.
https://www.scielo.br/j/csp/a/TP955nqPnmywZT69VYXnsVh/?lang=en
2600:1700:1EC1:30C0:E9F6:7C9E:97A:EB7C (talk)
: Changed the quote in the article. I don't understand how the quote is any less offensive with "Negro" changed to "African American". It's jarring and outright comical. --Svennik (talk) 07:31, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  The quote from Taliaferro Clark is not word for word and has been rephrased by who added it. 

message: The Salvarsan wikipedia article says that Salvarsan is a cure for syphilis so why is this not pointed out?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.45.62.81 (talk) 18:22, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: It's mentioned twice, with context. Robincantin (talk) 01:24, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  They were given Salvarsan and that is a cure for syphilis. 

message: When did scientists know that Salvarsan did not cure syphilis? Did the doctors involved in the Tuskegee experiment know that Salvarsan did not cure syphilis?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.45.62.81 (talk) 19:31, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: The text explains that actual medication (including salvarsan) was only administered after months of observation, since the study's undisclosed goal was to observe the progress of the disease when untreated. The problem isn't whether the treatment was effective or not, it's that the treatment was withheld. Robincantin (talk) 01:34, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  When did scientists know that Salvarsan did not cure syphilis? 

message: In the first sentence, saying it was “ethicality abusive” sounds a lot like an opinion- that might be the case, but it is not attributed to anyone or in the references so far as I can tell. That kind of statement either needs to be a quote/attrition, or removed. 71.197.159.239 (talk) 15:50, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: It's clearly laid out in paragraph 5, with sources, as well as the section "ethical implications". I don't see why it wouldn't be in the lead. Robincantin (talk) 01:21, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

text: Right. That is not just an opinion. Drmies (talk) 01:22, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  “Ethically abusive” 

message: In the second paragraph of section 5 "Ethical Implications", the Declaration of Helsinki is incorrectly referenced as the creation of the World Health Organization. In fact, the Declaration of Helsinki was created by the World Medical Association. The WMA isn't as well known in popular culture and the two have deceptively similar names but hey are different organizations. The WHO was created in 1948 as a public health apparatus of the United Nations whereas the WMA was established in 1947 and remained an independent entity. The two have public health missions and maintain direct relations. Still, where the WHO is known for its global initiatives like smallpox eradication, the WMA's claim to fame is the association's contributions to medical ethics. Documents of note include;  The Declaration of Geneva (The modern version of the Hippocratic oath pledged by doctors), the Declaration of Tokyo  ( which discusses physician conduct vis-a-vis torture and imprisonment,) and, a fundamental document in the field of human research ethics, The Declaration of Helsinki.  BgerMister33 (talk) 04:49, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Thanks. Robincantin (talk) 09:18, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: my pleasure. cheers.  BgerMister33 (talk) 09:25, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Declaration of Helsinki  

message: A request to add the following to the section about the impacts of the Tuskeegee Study in society and culture: 
Pat Parker, a black lesbian poet and activist (-> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Parker) writes in her poem My Lover Is a Woman (->https://poets.org/poem/my-lover-woman), 
never hear my sisters rage
of syphilitic Black men as
guinea pigs 109.127.228.77 (talk) 14:52, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: . The importance of this quote from poetry should be established by a WP:SECONDARY source commenting on it. Binksternet (talk) 15:59, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 20 October 2022 

message: The title is an embarrassment, for all the reasons cited above under "merger".The CDC itself adopted the phrase "The U.S. Public Health Service Syphilis Study at Tuskegee". The current title throws Wikipedia's weight in a bad direction, while refusing to acknowledge the importance of phrasing. This persists even after the wave of media noting the effect of AI reinforcing bias because it pervades the sample space.
WP:POVNAME "Notable circumstances under which Wikipedia often avoids a common name for lacking neutrality include the following: ...Colloquialisms where far more encyclopedic alternatives are obvious"
The Guatemala and Terre Haute pages suffer similarly misleading names.
LoneStarNot (talk) 23:49, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Confused as to the issue. Perhaps you need to see WP:COMMONNAME? glman (talk) 00:48, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  The title should be changed 

message: — Assignment last updated by Taty2004 (talk) 07:09, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: English 102 Section 4