Talk:Steven Milne

message: :The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 
The result of the move request was: Move. We have consensus the parentheses are serving no purpose, and that disambiguation can be  served with the hat notes. Cúchullain t/c 03:13, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: *Correct, but that's what you have a hatnote for. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 21:47, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: *A reader won't see a hatnote until they open an article, which will obviously sometimes be the wrong one. The present arrangement means they won't open the wrong article. Obviously better for all. HiLo48 (talk) 22:21, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

text: I'm from the city where Stephen Milne plays football. Before you mentioned it here, I couldn't have told you how he spelt his name. I don't think the spelling is a very effective natural disambiguation. (Maybe Scottish fans are smarter.) HiLo48 (talk) 08:08, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The policies and guidelines don't mention whether the natural disambiguation is effective. The guidelines say if natural disambiguation is available or possible, it should be used in preference to using parentheses. In this case, natural disambiguation is available and possible. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 09:34, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I always wonder about someone's real motives when they push a policy while virtually admitting it may not be effective. Why on earth would you change something that obviously works to something that probably won't? I'd like a rational answer, not one that begins "Policy says..." I'd suggest that WP:IAR could apply here. HiLo48 (talk) 09:53, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe that it would be effective, since there are only two articles named Steven / Stephen / Steve Milne, per WP:2DABS. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 10:42, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

text: I am not seeing rational responses to my comments. HiLo48 (talk) 22:22, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I am not seeing you citing any policy or guideline that justifies using parentheses in this case. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 22:42, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Then you're not paying attention. I mentioned WP:IAR where I am advised "If the rules prevent you from improving or maintaining Wikipedia, ignore them", and "Use your common sense over anything else". It's simple. The spelling alone doesn't work, at least for me, and I'm pretty good at spelling. I am absolutely certain that it won't work for a lot of other people. HiLo48 (talk) 23:28, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Look, the reason you moved Steven Milne (footballer) to Steven Milne (Scottish footballer) is that the former page offended your sensibility that Aussie Rule football is known as football in the part of Australia you live in. When doing this, you missed the more obvious solution, which is to remove parentheses in both cases. No one likes being told they were wrong, but citing IAR is pretty desperate. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 07:24, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Bullshit. The spelling is not an effective disambiguation. HiLo48 (talk) 07:50, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

text: Bullshit again. Typing the name works perfectly for me. When I get it wrong, it's obvious from what I see in parentheses, so I just backspace a few times and type in the right spelling, without ever opening the wrong article. HiLo48 (talk) 02:14, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: That may be fine for you and your "bullshit" detector, but what about everyone else? The reason they would have typed the wrong spelling in the first place is that they (incorrectly) believed that the name was spelt that way. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 09:52, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: What? Your objections to what I have said make no sense. HiLo48 (talk) 11:08, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

text: User:Anthony Appleyard was reasoning why this discussion was being created, rather than moving the pages under a technical request. I know this isn't a deletion discussion, but WP:TDLI applies to the second part of your statement. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 09:57, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

text: Why force people to open the articles, when the current names don't? HiLo48 (talk) 21:57, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

text: The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move.  Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
I am intrigued with how we can have a consensus that defies reality. At 02:14, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move?