Talk:Snooker/Archive 1

message: Would anyone object if I moved the glossary of snooker terms to a new page called Snooker (Glossary) ?
I also think that the History section should come before the Game section.  ChicXulub 19:10, May 08, 2004 (GMT)
:I don't think the glossary needs to be moved. My opinion is the same as Pete's on Wikipedia talk:List where he wrote
::A rule to consider: Suppose you create List of Xs relating to Y. If the only page that will link to it is Y then you may as well have List Of Y thingies on the Y page, otherwise you are just making navigation unnecessarily difficult for the user for the sake of bumping up the page count by 1..."
:Angela. 23:39, May 10, 2004 (UTC)
::My two pennyworth: I think the glossary is OK as it stands. Only move it if it gets much longer and starts to dominate the article. I agree the History section should come before the Game section. --Auximines 08:40, 11 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Glossary 

message: I removed 'Pimmetje' from the glossary as
* It sounds like non-sense
* A google search (pimmetje snooker) only returns wikipedia and clones
* It was added by an IP (82.169.84.200), of which it is the only contribution.
Tinus 01:46, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pimmetje 

message: How is it there are no women mentioned among great players? I'd mention (if I could recall here name...) the "Black Widow", called finest female snooker cueist ever. (With which I'd agree.) So?  Trekphiler 22:31, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Because there aren't any. No woman has ever come close to the top men. The best female player was probably Allison Fisher - she scraped into the top 200 at one point. I'd never heard of Jeanette Lee (the "Black Widow") until I read your comment. A minute's googling reveals she's a pool player. --Auximines 18:27, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Oops

message: This question was brought to my attention when I saw a dis-ambiguation page Blue Ball:
Does anyone have any opinions on whether articles on the individual snooker balls (e.g. Snooker blue ball) can be useful?? Georgia guy 21:25, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Use entries at Glossary of cue sports terms and the  template. — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 21:42, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Articles for individual balls 

message: Shouldn't it be consider a common foul?
203.51.88.142 14:22, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: By 'time foul' do you mean taking too long to take a shot? There is a rule against that (see http://www.worldsnooker.com/about_the_rules.htm section 4.1.a but I've never seen or even heard of it being enforced in 20 years of watching snooker. I really can't see why one would time waste in snooker... MrKWatkins 00:25, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Time foul in snooker? 

message: Have tabulated and elaborated this section a little, but have not (yet) confirmed some of the information I've added, so please check. There are also a few square-bracket queries I've left, plus a commented mention of Joe Johnson. Thanks, David Kernow 00:08, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Mark Williams' nickname was down as 'Double Top', yet every match I've ever seen him play he was introduced as 'The Welsh Potting Machine', including today's, so I've changed it accordingly. Whilst I was there I've also updated the history a bit from a book I have; it doesn't mention that Chamberlain taught the game to John Roberts Junior himself, and to me it seems unlikely that would have happened, so can we change it? Also not 100% sure I've got the citation formatting right, can someone change it if not please? Cheers, MrKWatkins 00:19, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Re Mark Williams as "Double Top", I too have never read/heard this nickname. I'm not a dedicated follower of the game, though, so I left it. (I don't think he has a double life as a notable darts player!)  Thanks for your input, David Kernow 01:30, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Snooker#Notable players|Notable players]] 

message: I notice at this year's world championship, the BBC commentators are calling individual frames, "games" for some reason.
For example, "He only needs two more games to win the match".
Can anyone shed any light?
(Derry Boi 19:07, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you know which commentator/s are transgressing thus?  So far as I'm aware, a game of snooker consists of a certain number of frames... Regards, David Kernow 20:37, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Frames vs Games 

message: What should we do with the potential myriad of 'snooker' websites that could be linked to in this article? I've removed several with a commercial slant, so do we stick with "only" the major sites like world snooker or WWW Snooker (called 'snooker results' in the article)? That would be my recommendation, otherwise we'll be snowed under with the likes of two new ones that have appeared recently, but let's hear what others say (Patrick) bigpad 20:12, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It depends - I tend to take the line that for small obscure subjects any links are good links to allow the reader to get some extra outside info.  On big subjects then the links should be kept down to the bare essentials to avoid pages turning into linkfarms.  Snooker is a kind of middle of the road subject, in that it is big, yet it isn't.  There are a good number of websites out there, but not quite hundreds and hundreds.  It is all judgement calls really - Wikipedia:External links gives some good guidance on the general rules to follow - but I tend to follow the line that if an external link is added by an anon IP with no other content added from the then it is likely to be spam and is more likely to be removed than someone who is adding useful content as well. SFC9394 12:59, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: External Links

message: In common with the billiards table article I created one for the snooker table.  The information currently overlaps somewhat with the current setup section of the snooker article.  What do people think?  Should we remove the overlapping information be removed from the main snooker article and link to the new snooker table article?  Obviously the snooker table article could be expanded upon.
StraussianNeocon 12:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good work - it is certainly deserving of its own article.  I think that it is generally a good idea to reduce the length of the snooker page.  Although size wise it is inside the guidelines for page size, it is pretty 'long' to read - and the longer a page reads the less likely an end user is going to read all of it.  Overlap content specifically relating to the table can get moved to the new article (if it doesn't exist there) or deleted from here.  It would be handy to link in the table now and then in the article to ensure the content is still easily noticeable for readers.  There is good room for expansion on the table article, discussing the changes that have occurred - the use of very fine cloths and heaters at the professional level etc etc. SFC9394 14:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Created article for the snooker table 

message: :[This topic was moved here from :Talk:Cue sport]
Isn't there a "mini-snooker" game which is played on a Pool table using just the set of pool balls? The reds are 10 balls (all the stripes, plus 3 solids), and the point balls are the remaining ones which coincide with their point values. There is a shortage of one ball, so I'm not sure how it works. 71.250.17.62 13:22, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you can document it, please add it to the snooker article. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 12:26, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Snooker pool variant 

message: Is the world championship really "also known as The Crucible"? People talk about so-and-so's performance "at the Crucible", of course, but that's because they play at the Crucible rather than because people call the actual championships "The Crucible", isn't it? --Camembert
*I've never heard it called that. I e-mailed a snooker-expert friend and he said The two do go hand in hand, the crucible is legendary for the world championships but I don't think it would be called that. However I'm sure you get some weird people who do (but not officially!).  --Angela 14:34, 19 Aug 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: I've heard TV commentators call it that. (Does that count?)  Trekphiler 00:21, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Crucible? 

message: I placed the  tag on the article since it states two etymologies for the word "snooker".  Compare the first paragraph of the "History" section to the sixth of "Fouls" --- Deville (Talk) 23:56, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, I have revised the article to remove this contradiction. Thanks, bigpad 08:49, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradiction tag 

message: Paul Hunter played snooker with a smile on his face, was an ultimate gentleman, and could have gone on as far as he would have liked. Our thoughts at this time go to his wife and children, and we all hope they get through this difficult period. This is for Paul. Millm0w 07:55, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Paul Hunter Remembrance 

message: For highly ranked players professional snooker is a very lucrative occupation
with winnings of over £7.8 million as of 2005
That's hardly 'very lucrative'. Skinnyweed 08:48, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What would you class as very lucrative then? - Dudesleeper 12:55, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Millm0w, please see WP:ATTACK, WP:CIVIL, WP:EQ, WP:COOL, and WP:FAITH, and don't respond to trolling if you can help it (see WP:TROLL).  — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 15:50, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some disputed comment 

message: This article omits any mention of Women's Snooker or female snooker players; an understandable oversight do to the bias inherent in the sport, but one that should still be corrected.  I think the tournament section ought to state the main Women's tournament(s), the best female player(s) be added to the article's list and ideally a paragraph added addressing the gender bias in the sport. --Jwanders 20:47, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Amen! How can you omit "The Black Widow"?! (I can't recall her name, dammit...)  Trekphiler 00:20, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Jeanette Lee?   Are you sure she plays snooker? I've only ever seen her do nine-ball, eight-ball and speed pool...  — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 15:50, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Women's Snooker? 

message: I deleted "(£6.50, equivalent to about £200 today)". Unless somebody intends to update the equivalent value daily (or so), it's irrelevant.  Trekphiler 00:20, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Redoing it as "in 2006" instead of "today".  This figure should only need to be updated annually at most since it is vaguely approximate to begin with. Also, the shillings-to-pence conversion is quite useful for non-UK people like me. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 15:50, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Money, money, money

message: Especially for nine-ball but also for eight-ball, one-pocket, and even snooker, etc., I firmly think we need to come to, and as editors enforce in article texts, a consensus on spelling conventions and implement it consistently throughout all of the cue sports Wikepedia articles.  I advocate (and herein attempt to justify) a system of standardized spellings, based on 1) general grammar rules; 2) basic logic; and 3) disambiguation.
This is a draft submission to the active editor community of billiards-related articles on Wikipedia.  It is intended to ultimately end up being something like "[[Wikipedia:[something:]Billiards/Spelling guidelines]]", or part of an official Wikipedia cue sports article-shepherding Project, likely it's first documentation output.
Anyway, please help me think this through.  The point is not for me to become world famous™ for having finally codified billiards terms and united the entire English-speaking world in using them (hurrah).  I simply want the articles here on pool and related games to be very consistent in application of some new consensus Wikipedia editing standards about spelling/phrasing of easily confusable billards terms that may be ambiguous to many readers in the absence of that standard.  
Compare:
# "While 9-ball is a 9-ball game, the 9-ball is the real target; pocket it in a 9-ball run if you have to, but earlier is better." (Huh?)
# "While nine-ball is a nine ball game, the 9 ball is the real target; pocket it in a nine ball run if you have to, but earlier is better." (Oh, right!)
That's the super-simple "use case" I make for this proposed nomenclature. If you think that the differentiation didn't cut it please TELL ME, and say how you would improve it.
So, here's the article draft so far (please do not edit it directly! Post on its Discussion page instead; thanks.):
User:SMcCandlish/Pool_terms
(PS: This intro text is repeated at the top of it.)
— SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 04:58, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please review: Consensus and consistency needed on spelling to prevent ambiguity &amp; confusion 

message: Wikipedia:WikiProject Cue sports.  Any comments, or better yet interested editors to participate? This would be a "parent" WikiProject that would not interfere with WikiProject Snooker, but attempt to do what WPS is doing for snooker with the rest of the cue sports, and keep them consistently organized. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 01:15, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject Cue sports 

message: In the United States, snooker can also refer to a sort of miniaturized version of :shuffleboard played with weighted, sliding disks, on a long table with a polished wooden surface. :Though uncommon, this pastime is occasionally found in bars and pubs.
:I have never heard shuffleboard miniature or otherwise referred to as snooker.  Also the miniature version of shuffleboard is very common, especially in Texas.Zeos386sx 21:38, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'm with Zeos386sx on both points (and am American).  Where are the sources for this usage?  I strongly suspect that this usage of "snooker" is either a localism of no encyclopedic value (like calling mountain lions "painters"), or is a trademark or brand name, again of no encyclipedic import. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 22:41, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Snooker aka shuffleboard? 

message: So many times, faults in play have been referred to as "kicks" or the ball getting "heavy contact" off annother.
I have often wondered what has caused this...I had presumed some form of static charge by movement on the cloth, building up during play then discharging?
please help
When you look into the abyss, the abyss looks unto you 21:44, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kick/heavy contact 

message: Hi All,
Over time, this article on snooker has grown very large. While people like me make edits to maintain its accuracy, I would have to say that anyone relatively unacquainted with snooker would easily find it quite forbidding and complex!
Snooker rules are complicated, true enough, but I wonder if it isn't time to consider an overhaul of this article to make it shorter and a little simpler, without diluting the standards expected of a Wiki page?
Many of the topics could easily be treated in detail in sub-topics.
I'd be willing to take this forward in January if people let us have their views on this.
All the best,
Patrick bigpad 09:44, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See WP:SUMMARY for where to go from here. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 21:11, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Time to revise article? 

message: It is worth noting that the edition of Castle's Book of Sports and Pastimes published in 1912 lists many Billiard game variations and includes a detailed description of Pyramid but no mention of Snooker or of any game resembling it. [This comment was placed in the article page itself by , 14:55, February 6, 2007 (UTC); moved to talk page by SMcCandlish, 00:11, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: ''Castle's Book of Sports and Pastimes'' (1912)

message: Is there any such things as the World Snooker Federation as opposed to Association? — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 21:10, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, Never heard of it. There's the WCBS (World Confederation of Billiards Sports), the very top-level body bigpad 11:20, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

text: OK; I think I simply ran into a typo then.  Just wanted to make sure that the ref. I found to WSF wasn't regarding an actual entity by that name. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 21:27, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: World Snooker Federation

message: As a CC of what Bigpad commented above in December - would it now be a good time to get this article up a few grades of standard?  There can be quite a few complaints of how it is at the moment - too long, too detailed, "old fashioned looking" (and by that I mean it looks a bit "wikipedia article circa 2003" with its layout and style).  I will run through some changes this afternoon - folks can feel free to comment on or alter what I do, I will just have a bit of an experiment on improvement. SFC9394 15:52, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I have been to busy to even start his but certainly it's well overdue now. Length of the article is the major problem. Have a stab and we'll hopefully are contribute our ideas bigpad 20:02, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ok, I have made some fairly substantial changes.  Improvements to the summary chapters in the main article welcomed.  The content spun out into new articles was: History of snooker, The game of snooker and Notable Snooker Players.  The content on those pages is just carbon copies of what was in the article, so they are actually the areas that require quite a bit of cleaning, sorting and polishing done to them - but at least we now have a fairly decent looking parent article from which to launch to these sub-articles. Comments and suggestions welcomed.  The article is on such a nice, non-controversial, easily reference'able subject that I would fancy we would have quite a decent chance of getting it to feature status without too much extra work - Main Page feature would be nice if we could get it to tie with the WC finals (precedence for timing main page feature with events has already been set in the past). SFC9394 02:04, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What a great job you have done, my friend! What we need do now is not allow the article to begin to sprout new appendages that will only recreate the size problem. I'll try and find some time to "polish" the existing sections bigpad 14:11, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks!  It should hopefully be fairly straight forward to keep it in check from now on, as any major addition has its own sub page to go to so nobody should (hopefully) feel the need to start adding lots of duplicate content.  I will have a further look at the feature requirements to see how close we are to having something in that range. SFC9394 16:40, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Improvement Drive 

message: Not every player who competes in British snooker tournaments is from the UK. So it's only fair to add how much the prize offered in pounds are in other currency equivalents, especially in dollars. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 222.126.116.170 (talk) 08:03, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Eh.  Wikipedia is not a currency converter, but to the extent such things are found useful in some cases, they must be dated, as per WP:MOSNUM#Currency, or they are meaningless or even directly misleading. That said, I don't really agree with this entirely.  Taken to its logical conclusion, every mention of money would be followed by about 300 currency conversions.  PS: You didn't even say what you meant by "dollar".  The US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Mexico and many other countries use "dollars".  — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 15:40, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is understood that there are countries other than the US that wear the name "dollar" for their currency. But in most cases when simply "dollar" is used, it refers to the dollar of the US. So perhaps no need for confusion. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.217.45.255 (talk) 11:01, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Having just returned from 18 months in Canada, I can tell you that this is not true at all, and it is why the MoS says to use "US$5", not "$5".  Anyway, I don't have any huge objection to adding a dated US$ conversion, since the largest number of WP users are American and it might be helpful for them.  But it certainly isn't required.  That said, if someone puts in a proper one, I'd be cautious about removing it - might look like across-the-pond POV editwarring. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 15:18, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prize money 

message: This article badly needs a :Template:Sport overview infobox :Template:Infobox sport. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 15:47, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Infobox

message: An edit by  mangled at least one reference citation; I'm super tired and my eyes hurt, or I'd go fix it myself... — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont]  ‹(-¿-)› 07:27, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Did this get fixed? — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 21:51, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

text: Checked history; it did get repaired. — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 00:27, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mangled edit