Talk:List of contemporary ethnic groups

message: There is no reason why information on minority and historical religions within ethnic groups should not be included on this page. Just as we include minority, and extinct languages, allowing minority and extinct religions can help quickly provide context regarding why certain ethnic groups are distinct from others, give a general framework of their history, and highlight important subgroups. For example, including Islam as a former religion of the Andalusians helps to provide information regarding the continuing legacy of Islamic culture in Andalusia, that many Andalusians use to distinguish themselves from the rest of Spain, and including Islam and Judaism on the African-American entry provides information on historically significant movements within the African-American community without taking up to much space, or detracting from the list format of this article. TheCrimsonKing'sCourt (talk) 16:32, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:NOR and WP:V are core principles of Wikipedia. We can only report what reliable sources say and we may not use arbitrary sampling. If we'd want to add "formerly Islam" to Andalusians, we'd have to provide RS that actually say, "Today, most Andalusians are Catholics, but formerly many were Muslims." BTW: Andalusia was under Muslim rule, but that doesn't mean that many members of the ethnic group were Muslim in former times. Nearly all Muslims and also descendants of Muslims who had converted to Catholicism were expelled from Spain. Rsk6400 (talk) 04:51, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: None of the edits I made were based on information that was found outside of their pages. Since this is a list, we can use information found on the items listed here. African-Americans as a further example. On the article on the religion of African-Americans entire articles written about their presence in African-Americans are linked. And stating that Albanians used to practice Albanian paganism, and Abkhazians used to practice Abkhaz Native Religion is hardly arbitrary at on. The articles on these religions both describe them as the former ethnic religions of Albanians and Abkhazians respectively. And even so, even if every single edit I have ever made in the religion column to include minority religions was entirely wrong, that would not mean that this list should not contain any minority religions. TheCrimsonKing'sCourt (talk) 16:41, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: What I meant by "arbitrary" is the selection: How do we decide which religions to include and which not ? Either we include all historical and minority religions (e.g. for Germans: Germanic paganism as historical and virtually all the religions that exist today as minority religions), or we have a certain criterion (like majority / plurality religion), or we drop the column alltogether (which would be my preferred solution). Rsk6400 (talk) 07:26, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Since this is a dynamic list, a think some level of arbitrary sampling, and incompleteness is implied when reading the list. We can't hope to cover every single nuance of every single group listed here, because the definition of ethnicity is so vague. However, I think we, as editors can determine whether a minority religion is significant enough to include here just based on how it's used on relevant pages. Islam should undoubtedly be listed as a religion under African-Americans since there are entire pages on it, and Muslim African-Americans frequently reoccur on articles relevant to African-American history. We wouldn't include Hinduism however, since there are barely any mentions of large numbers of African-American Hindus. And yes, Germanic paganism would 100% be included under Germans, since that fact is relevant to their history prior to Christianization. TheCrimsonKing'sCourt (talk) 15:52, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: About 2 % of African Americans are Muslim - is this really significant ?  (a well-sourced sentence from Germans) - that means, after Christianization. As I showed above, you were wrong in the case of Andalusians. These are only three of the problems your suggestion would lead us into. But more important: I can't see how you could bring your suggestion in line with the core principles of WP I mentioned above. Rsk6400 (talk) 06:37, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: 2% of African-Americans are Muslim, however, this minority is extremely significant historically. Many of the core leaders of the civil rights movement were Muslim, or part of Islam-derived religions. And even nowadays, Muslim organizations play a major role in inner-city African-American communities. So while African-American Muslims are small, their influence is larger than their numbers would imply. And more to the point, even if every single example provide is wrong, that doesn't mean we shouldn't include minority religions. Nothing about that contradicts the policy on no original research. TheCrimsonKing'sCourt (talk) 16:09, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay here is my proposal, we should include majority religions on the list, but we should also list any indigenous religions the ethnic group might have. This would allow Islamic off-shoots like NOI or Moorish Science under African-Americans, for example. Other examples would be traditional African religions for most African ethnic groups, and Native American religions for most Native American groups. TheCrimsonKing'sCourt (talk) 17:28, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't agree, for the reasons already given above. Rsk6400 (talk) 19:03, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Fine. I give up. We'll get rid of the religion category, and I will cease to interact with this page. You win. TheCrimsonKing'sCourt (talk) 17:49, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  The top column should be edited to allow for minority, and extinct religions. 

message: Megrels and especially Svans are not a subgroup of Georgians. Megrels could be merged with Laz, while Svans definitely should be separate. 128.227.1.24 (talk) 18:38, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Svans and Megrels/Mingrealians