Talk:Richard Pipes

message: Anon (64.12.116.204) I do not want a revert war.
You continue to delete this paragraph with your nit picky alterations:
Pipes was head of the 1970's Team B, created by conservative cold warriors determined to stop détente and the SALT process. Panel members were all hard-liners. The Team B reports became the intellectual foundation for the idea of "the window of vulnerability" and of the massive arms buildup that began toward the end of the Carter administration and accelerated under President Reagan. Team B came to the conclusion that the Soviets had developed several terrifying new weapons of mass destruction, featuring a nuclear-armed submarine fleet that used a sonar system that didn't depend on sound and was, thus, undetectable with our current technology. This information was later proven to be false. According to Dr. Anne Cahn (Arms Control and Disarmament Agency, 1977-1980) "if you go through most of Team B's specific allegations about weapons systems, and you just examine them one by one, they were all wrong."
And add your own innacurate POV:
Pipes was head of the 1970's Team B, created by the CIA to evaluate Soviet strategic doctrine. Panel members were all hard-liners. The Team B reports became the intellectual foundation for the idea of "the window of vulnerability" and of the massive arms buildup that began toward the end of the Carter administration and accelerated under President Reagan. Team B came to the conclusion that the Soviets did not share the doctrine of Mutual Assured Destruction prevalent in the West but intended to use nuclear weapons if and when general war broke out. This information was later proven to be correct.
The problems with your edit:
FIRST: Since the wild and inaccuarate predictions of Team B do not fit your own pet POV, you delete them. Regardless of your edits, the inaccuarate predictions of Team B DID happen. They are historical fact. Please do not delete sentences simply because they do not fit your own pet ideology. (All of the information is referenced exhastively on the Team B page).
SECOND: If you wish to include this sentence: "the Soviets did not share the doctrine of Mutual Assured Destruction prevalent in the West but intended to use nuclear weapons if and when general war broke out." If you wnat to include this sentence, lets see a reference. I referenced all my information extensively on Team B. If you cannot provide references, this sentence will unfortunatly have to be deleted as unfounded.
Lets avoid a revert war.Travb 20:14, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Anon (64.12.116.204) , thanks for your restrain, I noticed you only deleted reference to Richard Pipes being Jewish, which may or may not be true (I don't think I wrote this portion), and is irrelevant to the article. Thanks for avoiding an edit war.Travb 14:01, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Deletions by anon

message: Changes by anon 205.188.117.12:
Original:
::He has written many books, including The Russian Revolution (1995) and Russia Under the Bolshevik Regime (1994), and has been a frequent and prominent interviewee in the press on the matters of Soviet history and foreign affairs. His writing also appears in the National Review, The New York Times and the Moscow Times. A leading Cold Warrior, Pipes has argued that the Soviet Union was an expansionist, totalitarian state bent on conquest. Pipes is famous for arguing that the origins of the Soviet Union can be traced to the separate path taken by 15th century Muscovy. He was also notable for his thesis that, contrary to many traditional histories of the USSR at the time, the "October Revolution" was, rather than a popular general uprising, practically a coup foisted upon the majority of the Russian population (and imperial national minorities) by a tiny segment of the population driven by a select group of intellectuals who subsequently established a dictatorship which was intolerant and repressive from the start, rather than having deviated from an initially benign course. This critical view of the Bolsheviks is a prime theme in his works.
New:
::He has written many books, including The Russian Revolution (1995) and Russia Under the Bolshevik Regime (1994), and has been a frequent and prominent interviewee in the press on the matters of Soviet history and foreign affairs. His writing also appears in the National Review, The New York Times and the Moscow Times. During the Cold Warrior, Pipes has argued that its internal regime drove the Soviet Union to expansionism and conquest. Pipes further argued that the origins of Soviet totalitarianism can be traced to the separate path taken by 15th century Muscovy. He was also notable for his thesis that, contrary to many traditional histories of the USSR at the time, the "October Revolution" was, rather than a popular general uprising, a coup foisted upon the majority of the Russian population (and national minorities]]) by a tiny segment of the population controlled by a group of intellectuals who established a one-party dictatorship from the start, rather than having deviated from an initially benign course.
I reverted to the original. Here is why:
===POV===
205.188.117.12, I assumed you changed many of the words because they seemed POV. They are POV. But we are quoting a persons ideas. When you are describing a persons views, beliefs and ideas, there is a lower bar for POV, because you are describing beliefs, not facts.
I personally don't agree with Richard Pipes, in fact from what I read, I despise the man. But I feel that his far right, violent views should be voiced. I think rational people will read his views and see him for what he is: A violent jingoist. Travb 22:33, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Changes by anon 205.188.117.12

message: 205.188.117.12, I assumed you changed many of the words because they seemed POV. They are POV. But we are quoting a persons ideas. When you are describing a persons views, beliefs and ideas, there is a lower bar for POV, because you are describing beliefs, not facts.
I personally don't agree with Richard Pipes, in fact from what I read, I despise the man. But I feel that his far right, violent views should be voiced. I think rational people will read his views and see him for what he is: A violent jingoist. Travb 22:33, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: POV

message: Anon, (205.188.117.12) please stop reverting the article about Team B and erasing large portions of exhastively footnoted text which I added. (see above for deletions) I have tried to work with you. And it has been a monologue, because you have never commented on your edits. If you keep this up, I am going to be forced to have to consult a third party.
your other minor edit:
"Cold warrior" to "specialist on the subject" 
I will reference this too. Travb 23:15, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Minor change

message: Despite my repeated warnings, anon, you ignored me. I contacted an administrator, and ask him my options about stopping your reversions. If this continues, I will take as agressive stance as needed to stop these unexplained reverts.Travb 18:36, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Contacted administrator

message: Why was the sentance "Pipes is famous for arguing that the origins of the Soviet Union can be traced to the separate path taken by 15th century Muscovy" removed? Regardless of whatever one agrees with this assessment or not, this view of Russian history is a major part of Pipe's claim to fame. The sentance does not say Pipes was correct; all it merely does is sum an major part of Pipe's view of Russian history.A.S. Brown 22:10, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Why This Removed?

message: The Pipes family fled Poland in October 1939 and arrived in the United States in July 1940, after a brief period passed in fascist Italy.
At first I reverted the deletion of the italicized section, but now I am not so sure, I don't know exaclty what the author is trying to say. I will contact the wikipedian for clarification, but for now I left it out of the article.Travb 23:18, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sentence

message: Looks like an anon decided to delete several footnoted comments in this article to insert his own non-referenced POV. As the template on this talk page states, explain your suggested large deletions here before deleting, to avoid a revert war.Travb 23:25, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Another revert war?

message: My original edit:
Richard Pipes, on condition of anonymity, told Reuters in March 1981 that "Soviet leaders would have to choose between peacefully changing their Communist system in the direction followed by the West or going to war. There is no other alternative and it could go either way…Detente is dead.” Pipes also stated in the interview that Foreign Minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher of West Germany was susceptible to pressure from the Russians. It was learned independently that Pipes was the official who spoke to Reuters. This jeopardizing Pipe's job. The White House and the “incensed” State Department issued statements repudiating Pipe's statements.
Anon's edit:
Richard Pipes, in an off-the-record interview, told Reuters in March 1981 that "Soviet leaders would have to choose between peacefully reforming their system in the direction followed by the West or going to war. There is no other alternative and it could go either way…Detente is dead.” Pipes also stated in the interview that Foreign Minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher of West Germany was susceptible to pressure from the Russians. It was learned independently that Pipes was the official who spoke to Reuters. |1981}}. Although there were fears that these statements may cost him his job, he stayed on for a full two years when he had to return to Harvard for his leave of absence was up.
My edit incoporating some of anon's edits:
Richard Pipes, in an off-the-record interview, told Reuters in March 1981 that "Soviet leaders would have to choose between peacefully changing their Communist system in the direction followed by the West or going to war. There is no other alternative and it could go either way…Detente is dead.” Pipes also stated in the interview that Foreign Minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher of West Germany was susceptible to pressure from the Russians. It was learned independently that Pipes was the official who spoke to Reuters. This jeopardized Pipe's job. The White House and the “incensed” State Department issued statements repudiating Pipe's statements.[8] Pipes stayed on for a full two years when he had to return to Harvard because his leave of absence was up.
Regarding the edits.
All words from the original 3 articles
In my orginal edit I attempted to use the words of the three articles as close as possible.
The White House and the “incensed” State Department issued statements repudiating Pipe's statements.
*New York Times article: The White House and the State Department issued statements late today disavowing an interview.
This is an original sentence, changed slightly. "incensed" was added but is from one of the three articles describing the state department. "disavowed", a word that is not as well recognized, in the original sentence was changed to "repudiated" which was also in one of the three articles.
*NYT:State Department officials were particularly incensed
*NYT:The White House and the State Department later repudiated the remarks, U.S. Repudiates a Hard-Line Aide
jeopardized Pipe's job'
*Newsweek article: Pipes jeopardized his job as White House specialist on Soviet affairs when he told a reporter that "detente is dead."
Is also in the original articles.
anon's edits
Anon, please do not change the quote of Pipe. You changed two of his words, deleting one and changing the other. His words should stay the same.
In addition please do not disable the footnotes in the future.
Additions
thank you anon for the excellent clarifications, which I kept intact:
in an off-the-record interview
and
Pipes stayed on for a full two years when he had to return to Harvard because his leave of absence was up.
Anon, please respond on the talk page with any changes. You have never actually said one word on this talk page, despite my active encouragment which unfortunaly devolved into threats. This indicates a possible lack of wanting to comprimise and lack of wiki-etiquite. Please respond.Travb 04:03, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Anon's edits

message: by Pat Struthers 08:20, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anti-semitism? 

message: I'm not sure if this would have been regarded as POV so I decided to suggest it here first. In the intro when it reads "...he headed Team B, a team of analysts...", I suggest changing it to "he headed Team B, a government-funded team of analysts...". Regardless of the conclusions that Team B came to, and whether you agree with them, I think it should be made clear right at the start that it (and therefore Pipes) was driven by the US government. IMHO Pipes' work is a load of crap and was essentially commissioned by the US government, but simply including "government-funded" in the intro will let the reader make up their own mind whether or not they give a stuff who was paying him/them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.243.99.2 (talk) 06:38, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggest addition to intro 

message: I'm not quite sure if this is necessary: Along with Pipes, the team included Paul Wolfowitz, later considered a primary neoconservative.
The insertion of Wolfowitzs' name and that favorite buzz word "neoconservativism" seems gratuitous, as it doesn't really have any direct bearing on the rest of the section. Team Bs stance on the various issues and criticism of it is fully explained. Any reasonable person can see what the article says they are about. Maybe a list of the other names? If not I think Wolfowitz should be drop as it is just name dropping--Dudeman5685 (talk) 02:39, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The history shows that the team-b exercise was created by several people that have very often been described as neoconservatives, including Wolfowitz. Unless you're trying to claim that Wolfowitz wasn't on the team, or hasn't been described as such, or unless you're trying to claim that it wasn't notable that he was there, then I don't see really that your argument stands. The fact that Pipes worked closely with him, seems to me to be very reasonable to mention here. This is both notable and verifiable.WolfKeeper (talk) 05:22, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The way his name is inserted into the narrative is gratuitous, as it adds nothing to the narrative of the article. Simply that that one person was working with him on the team is not notable. Perhaps, if later the article said "Among others on the team were..." and there was a sampling of two or three names, that might be acceptable, but I don't think the way it stands now, as a name randomly dropped into the text about Pipes being on Team B, is appropriate.--Dudeman5685 (talk) 18:12, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wolfowitz 

message: Should Pipes be identified as a Polish-American historian? Cf. Fritz Stern, identified as a German-American historian (also of Jewish background). Sca (talk) 22:15, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Polish-American?

message: Found the following POV text: "The information Team B produced was later determined to be sound. However, according to a certain Dr. Anne Cahn in 2004 (Arms Control and Disarmament Agency, 1977-1980), an obsessive apologist for the Soviet military,[...]".
I undid the anon edit that had added this POV. But being new to this article, wanted to call attention to the change. Aydin6 (talk) 02:32, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably the same person who keeps deleting this stuff completely. Good catch. csloat (talk) 18:18, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Team B anonymous reversions 

message: Why is this article listed for WikiProject Judaism and no other Wikiprojects? Richard Pipes was Jewish but that's, so far as I can see, the only connection this article has with Judaism. Shouldn't it be under Wikiprojects for the Cold War, Military History, U.S. Conservatism, and so on? TiC (talk) 01:42, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree this template was inappropriate and have removed it, and added more appropriate WikiProject templates. In future you should feel free to do this yourself. Robofish (talk) 12:46, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Wikiproject Judaism?

message: Richard Pipes gave a good estimate of Shay Mcneal (book: The Secret Plot to Save the Tsar).
I could not believe my eyes. This book - really, really bad. Maybe his statement is a fake?
http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Plot-Save-Tsar-Romanov/dp/0060517557
--Vladlen666 (talk) 09:55, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Richard Pipes and Shay Mcneal 

message: Here's the sentence :
His writing on Lenin portrays Lenin as "merely a psychopath to whom ideas barely mattered and whose only motivation is to dominate and to kill."[30]
And the quote is... from a book of Robert Service. This is highly questionable. Find the genuine passage in Pipes' work, or delete this sentence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.66.210.114 (talk) 10:05, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Having done damage control on an even more outrageous assertion, I would welcome this stupid assertion's removal.  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 10:30, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lenin as a psychopath 

message: Recently I added this link to this article, and it was deleted - http://www.booknotes.org/Watch/179455-1/Richard+Pipes.aspx - It is a one-hour, serious interview with Prof. Pipes on the subject of his own memoirs. The rationale for the deletion was "of almost no value (you're adding these everywhere))". Now it is true, I just finished adding quite a few of these links to various pages. However, to me that is not a rationale for deletion from this particular page. If a one-hour discussion with Pipes about his own memoir is of almost no value, then what is of value as a link? Let's please discuss. Thanks KConWiki (talk) 06:36, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: My apologies. I didn't see the video, only the little blurb on the left, which said almost nothing. I will revert myself. Thanks for being so civil about my mistake.--Bbb23 (talk) 15:55, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Not at all, I appreciate your comment, and your vigilance. I know, there are plenty of spammers out there with less-than-honorable intent. However, I think this link (and the others from this interview series) have the potential to be of great interest to Wiki users. If you have the inclination and have the time, let me encourage you to watch the interview with Pipes. I would be interested to know what you think. Thanks! KConWiki (talk) 16:13, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Inclusion of Booknotes interview link?

message: The section contains quotes supposedly from Newsweek, the New York Times Book Review and the Washington Post Book World, all tagged since August 2011 as uncited. Given the fact that quotations self-evidently need citation (see Wikipedia:Quotations, which explicitly states this), and the length of time that has elapsed since the need for this being noted, I am going to remove the relevant paragraph, and ask that it not be restored until the relevant citations can be found, the quotes verified, and their appropriateness confirmed. I will of course attempt to find the material myself, but I'd point out that it is the responsibility of those who add such material to provide the necessary citations, and expecting others to do the donkey-work is unreasonable. AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:24, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I've found the Newsweek quote here: . The NYT review is here , but the quote given in our article was incorrect - it starts "no single volume...", which possibly qualifies the statement somewhat. As for the Washington Post review, I've been unable to locate it, possibly due to the abysmal search facilities provided on their website. We'll also need a citation for the statement that "The book [Russian Revolution] has been translated into several languages, including Russian (two editions)". AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:55, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, a lot of very interesting controversies... I just learned from this paper that Team B (led by Pipes) "concluded that the Soviets were developing charged-particle-beam missile defenses". This is quoted as an obviously wrong conclusion by "Team B". However, there was indeed a huge highly classified project in the SU to create a small Linear particle accelerator and send it to space and use to shut down US satellites. The project was scientifically unrealistic from the beginning and failed miserably... My very best wishes (talk) 22:55, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uncited quotations in the 'Controversies' section. 

message: This says that Pipes continues Polish historiography of Russia, any proves? Pipes says in his autobiography, that he wasn't interested in Russia when he was a teeneager in Poland. Pipes studied in the USA and wasn't influenced by Polish-Communist historiography. Which Polish academicians influenced him to be Polish-American? He was born in Poland and speaks Polish, but it doesn't make him Polish academician.Xx236 (talk) 09:17, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Polish-American academic 

message: Would an interview with Richard Pipes from 1986 be useful here as an external link? Focus of conversation is nuclear weapons policy. http://openvault.wgbh.org/catalog/V_6DC402944A8F4D5CA04326B3C9B7E7C7 (I helped with the site, so it would be conflict of interest for me to just add it.) Mccallucc (talk) 22:28, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External link to interview on nuclear policy? 

message: What is "A sonar system not dependent on sound is, however, an oxymoron."? The phrase is obviously true, but doesn't explain if the Team B was wrong or miused the word sonar.Xx236 (talk) 07:20, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  OR ? 

message: Substituted at 04:23, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: "the Polish version of Russian history" - Where is this quote from? There is no reference for it on the page.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Opinionatedguava (talk • contribs) 23:22, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeh, I removed it. My very best wishes (talk) 17:35, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  "the Polish version of Russian history" 

message: Although Pipes served in the United States Army Air Corps
during World War II era, no reliable sources found as of yet state that he actually served overseas during the war. Accordingly, :Category:United States Army Air Forces personnel of World War II was removed from the article. Semper Fi! FieldMarine (talk) 01:27, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: World War II service