Talk:Windows 7/Archive 1

message: Wikipedia originally said 2010-2012, but now it says 2007. What happened?? Georgia guy 18:21, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I noticed the 2007 date too, and it sounds completely unreasonable, given that Longhorn is planned to release at the end of 2006. Is that from some very old release date schedule? 2010-2012 sounds far more reasonable. -- Jugalator July 7, 2005 21:18 (UTC)
This page says 2011 - but cites no references: http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/04/02/ten_reasons_to_update_to_vista/ (MarkRandall 08:53, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Release date 

message: I'm just curious about the Blackcomb reference. Together with 'Longhorn' there seems to be some Viking influence. Have Microsoft always had this tradition?
:No, it's a mountain/ski-resort apparently - see Microsoft codenames. Basically, it was going to be Whistler, then Blackcomb; Whistler became Windows XP, and Longhorn, named after a bar in the resort, was inserted in between and somehow became a major release (now announced as Vista). - IMSoP 22:57, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Well I never :) Adambisset 11:23, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name 

message: I find a few things to be odd about the way this is worded... it sounds much like an advertising pitch rather than an NPOV statement of information. In particular are the references to 'changes in the way we will do computing'. Who are 'we'? What proportion of Wikipedia readers will use this OS? There's no way of knowing, so let's not include everyone automatically, please. Radagast 15:06, August 11, 2005 (UTC)
:Perhaps the article  has changed since your comment but the way it is currently written is fine IMHO. The article makes it clear that it is Microsoft that claims it will change the way we will do computing. This is Microsoft's claim and it doesn't make sense to modify it. You could point out that it only change the way you do computer if you use it but this is unnecessary IMHO. Besides, it it is really turns out to be as good as MS promises, one would expect it would be duplicated in *BSD and other open source OSes 60.234.141.76 10:40, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Radagast.  This sounds like a MS marketing press release.  Plus, Microsoft hasn't officially claimed anything.  This is all supposed "internal sources" (where no citation is given) which basically amounts to an article about rumors. Dukemeiser 02:19, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article's tone 

message: I've editted the following rather ambiguous line out of the article:
:Blackcomb is, simply put, the next major operating system to be released by Microsoft. Note: not the next major version of Windows.
Anybody any idea what this was intended to mean? Is it that it won't really be Windows any more (I somehow doubt it will be that revolutionary, but I could be wrong)? Or that there are other versions in between (i.e. Windows Longhorn Server; but in that case the two sentences are hard to reconcile)? If anyone wants to clarify, feel free to put it back with better wording - but I think what this article needs most right now are external references, so a quote backing it up would be really great. - IMSoP 18:21, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Right now, we shouldn't really be editing the article for specifics until more information is released about Vienna. Not many people know a thing about it, and we can't go spreading rumors. However, regarding the statement about Vienna being a whole new operating system, I doubt that. It will most likely keep the Windows name, unless Microsoft sees it fit to change everything and go in a new direction (which wouldn't surprise me). Either way, we should leave most of the stuff alone, until definitive information is released. --CanesOL79 22:29, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "not the next major version of Windows"? 

message: On the subject of a potential name change from "Blackcomb" to "Vienna", we'll need more confirmation of this code-name change than a single posting on a single forum from a Microsoft employee who "hasn't gotten the story on this yet".  He may be wrong.  Let's wait until more reliable information becomes available before we go renaming things. Warrens 22:30, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Scoble is fairly reliable. Since I moved this page before seeing this on the talk page, let's wait until we move it back. — Alex 22:37, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Vienna was the code name for Live Communications Server 2005.   This could quite easily be a mistake on Scoble's part, and he's certainly made his share of them in his time.  Arguably, the editor of MSDN Magazine is a more reliable resource for code names than a technical evangelist at Microsoft.  In fact, on January 9 2006, the editor of MSDN Magazine addressed this exact issue, and reaffirmed Blackcomb as being the code name for the version of Windows following Vista.   Those are my sources.  I'm moving this article back to Windows Blackcomb.  If a more verifiable source for this name-change than a single posting on a single forum becomes available, then we can justify renaming the article.  In the meantime, Blackcomb it is. Warrens 22:48, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: True... I'm not sure whether to believe Scoble. But then why would Microsoft be changing a codename? I guess I'll wait. — Alex 23:50, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

text: threedaysdwn of Neowin works at Microsoft and he had this to say about these news being "3 months old": "Umm no it's not. Only happened like a month ago (wondering when it would "get out")".  So it sounds like there's some truth behind this, but maybe more sources would still be needed rather than scattered forum/blog writers. Scoble says "he hasn't got the story on this yet", so maybe wait until he and others have. If a page move from this to Windows Vienna is done in the future though, keep in mind there's a non-standard format Windows "Vienna" redirection article as well now... I just changed Windows Vienna to not have a double (and invalid) redirect, so now it points directly to Windows Blackcomb. -- Jugalator 07:46, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I wouldn't be at all surprised if it turned out to be the code-name for an NT 6.1 product, be it a "Second Edition" of Vista, or Longhorn Server.  Or maybe Blackcomb will become 8.0 (maintaining its perpetual "pie in the sky" status :-) ) --- On the "quotes" issue, we'll have to see how Microsoft's usage of a code-name evolves.  Windows Server "Longhorn" is correctly named, IMO, because that's how Microsoft references the product in their documentation.  Warrens 08:25, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, could be, although they don't appear to use a too unified name when looking at details:  vs . ;-) -- Jugalator 09:00, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *sigh* :-)   Warrens 18:55, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

text: "Microsoft officials have confirmed"... "the rumors are true: 'Blackcomb' is now 'Vienna'"  says microsoft-watch.com -c3o 16:03, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: microsoft-watch.com didn't provide an attributable source (even a name) for their confirmation.  Warrens 17:37, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Blackcomb v. Vienna

message: Why is "Vienna" in quotation marks?? Georgia guy 01:16, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Because it's a codename. Windows "Longhorn" and Server "Longhorn" are referred to by Microsoft in the same way. — Alex 04:11, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Strange that Windows "Longhorn" doesn't even have an article, and same for Windows "Blackcomb", and Windows "Whistler", and Windows "Cairo", and... :-) Also, MS far from always use quotes for Longhorn on their own web sites. I also have to wonder if this is the best practice for Wikipedia as it has never been used before; not even with Longhorn, besides for the Server edition of their OS. Well, just a thought, it's no big deal for me, as long as redirects exist. :-) -- Jugalator 15:48, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, this is so far out there that pretty much anything could change between now and the release date. I think that the use of quotes to designate codenames is OK, then move the article when we get the real name. I mean, assuming that consumer Vista launches in H1 2007 (which is pretty likely), given the issues with Vista, I would be surprised to see an update this decade (2008-2009). I mean, they claim they're going to add in at least two major features after the release, and they probably need to do that before releasing "Vienna". --ZachPruckowski 23:40, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

text: No, Vienna is a (new) code name for Microsoft's OS after Vista. -- Jugalator 15:48, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quotation marks 

message: I wonder when Linux SYF will be released (see Vienna (song)). :-) The Neokid 18:11, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Huh? And what does this have to do with "Vienna" (except for the name)? — Alex (T|C|E) 04:08, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Shaddap You Face was released by Joe Dolce at the same time and stopped Vienna from getting to No. 1. SYF is an abbreviation of Shaddap You Face. The Neokid - Wikihalo Guiding Director talk 16:55, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ahh, I get it now. Thanks for clearing that up. :-) — Alex (T|C|E) 21:59, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Joke 

message: The release date for Vienna will be 2011.
The client Windows releases are separated by 5 years.
XP (2001) - Vista (2006) - Vienna (2011)
The server Windows releases are separated by 4 years (2 years - R2, 1 year - SP1)
Server 2003 - 2003
Server 2003 SP1 - early 2005 (we can consider it 2004)
Server 2003 R2 - late 2005 (2005)
Server 2003 R2 SP1 - late 2006 (2006)
Server Longhorn/2007 - 2007
Server Longhorn/2007 SP1 - 2008
Server Longhorn/2007 R2 - 2009
Server Longhorn/2007 R2 SP1 - 2010
Vienna Server - 2011
And you have this quote from Bob Muglia, at Paul Thurott's SuperSite for Windows :
"Paul Thurott: Blackcomb being the next major release.
Bob Muglia: Right, the next major release, four years after Longhorn Server."
So the release date for Vienna is 2011.
--Xammer 08:17, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is expected in the 2010-2011 timeframe, but its not confirmed. --Soumyasch 12:33, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Vienna is also a client release, not just a server. And Microsoft claimed that the next release of Windows won't be delayed as much as previous versions. — Alex (T|C|E) 22:16, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Release date

message: This article is missing verifiable source citations for just about everything except the first section.  Where did some of the things presented here (like the R&D part) come from?  I've added an "Unreferenced" template to the page; let's see if we can track this information down and get it properly attributed.  Warrens 08:16, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources 

message: Paul Thurrot has said Vienna is a minor rev of Vista R2? I could not find anything remotely like this when I almost comb searched winsupersite (and his blogs). Am I missing something? --soUmyaSch 15:20, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The recently added text appears to be talking about Windows "Fiji", not "Vienna".  I also suspect that the term "Windows Vista R2" is a journalist invention.  Warrens 15:30, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Removed that, as such. --soUmyaSch 15:36, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

text: The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 
The result of the debate was don't move. —Nightstallion (?) Seen this already? 10:51, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  A minor rev? 

message: :Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~
*Strong Oppose. Microsoft generally puts codenames in quotes (Windows Server "Longhorn" and Visual Studio "Orcas"). Also there is no confirmation Vienna is the final name. --soUmyaSch 12:26, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: Perhaps we should add some mention of Microsoft's CIW project in this article, since it's possible that Blackcomb/Vienna will end up with these technologies. Rhys42 14:02, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, we do not add information based on one's own expectations, unless its verifiable. --soumসৌমোyasch 15:28, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Where is the data about LayoutBar and GroupBar verifiable? CIW is a real, in-development project at MS. Rhys42 13:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Groupbar is available for download. And I never said CIW is made up. Just that there is nothing saying that its products will be included in Vienna. And due to the reasons you pointed out, the article has "This article or section does not cite its references or sources" slapped at its top. We are trying to give references, not further dilute it. Please help if you can. --soumসৌমোyasch 14:17, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: CIW

message: I found this to be a funny coincidence with the code name: Vienna starts desktop Linux migration. -- Northgrove 19:21, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Funny coincidence 

message: What happened to the Windows "Fiji" article? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.193.142.122 (talk) 22:10, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A long ago, the Windows "Fiji" article is removed, but is now created again.  Take a look of the article. --Jigs41793 14:38, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fiji? 

message: Is "Vienna" will name as Windows Vista R2? --Jigs41793 14:43, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it will be a major revision. — Alex (T|C|E) 01:19, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But I retrive from Paul Thurrott's SuperSite for Windows:
"As for Windows Vista R2 (codenamed "Vienna"), I think it's safe to say that the calm and calculating hand of Steven Sinofsky will ensure that this and other future Windows versions will arrive on schedule and be evolutionary, rather than revolutionary, upgrades. Sinofsky's record with Microsoft Office is as clear as it is successful, and there's little doubt he'll have a positive effect on the Windows Division."
— Jigs41793 <sp>Talk</sp> 09:03, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  OS Name 

message: We have seen a test run of a considered GUI, why not add a picture for fun. BYE love you x x x
Jimmy93211 18:32, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why not add a picture?

message: I think we really need references to the claims about a revised HAL and file system approach, that the task bar "will" (yes, as definite as that too) be replaced by a concept from the VIBE research lab, and the GroupBar and LayoutBar implementations along with anything about what these features exactly are, to give the reader some context. I personally think stuff like this needs to be quite ruthlessly edited out from the article if no sources are added for this "soon". Worded equally definite (as "will also feature") is the sandbox approach which I'm not even sure MS has claimed will be definitely there. I only know there was some thoughts about this during the Longhorn development. These are all bold claims that the article stands upon, with currently no foundation I can find in the article.
: agreed, there's way too much speculation here, and if it's not speculation it should be citable (is that a real word?) --Streaky 17:33, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As far as I remember, Vienna was always a code name. --soumসৌমোyasch 18:55, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some references badly needed 

message: In the current article, it is stated that:
While Windows Vista is intended to be an evolutionary release, Vienna is targeted directly at revolutionizing the way users of the product interact with their PCs
However, Windows Vienna is a minor release according to Paul Thurrott's Windows "Vienna" (or "Seven") FAQ. Taking the the release date in consideration, it must be a minor release. Not to forget the major upgrade Windows Vista is supposed to receive, with SP1 ("Fiji"), which will include the new version of the Windows kernel (version 6.1). Therefore, it is highly doubtful that the release of Vienna is going to be major. However, it is correct that "Blackcomb" once was considered to be a major revision - however "Longhorn" was planned to be a minor step between Windows XP and "Blackcomb" - this of course changed.
Should the focus section be accordingly? Are there any objections? -- 
Mr Mo 19:59, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Since no one has made an edit, I have tried myself. Feel free to edit it, so it meets Wikipedias standards. Mr Mo 22:30, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minor Release? 

message: I think this article needs marked for neutrality, which I forget how to do at the moment.
When I see that the OS includes this new "sandboxed" mode which restricts the user to only Microsoft-land, and does not allow 3rd party stuff to work without some shennanigans, I expect to see where some critism of that has developed. No I am not a Linux guy, I type this from Windows XP.
And for some reason, does it not seem like all Microsoft articles on Wiki have been re-written by Microsoft staff (or at least, major microsoft pumpers) recently? I cannot even find an article about the Australian dude who broke the news on how HDCP and AAS are both cracked AND on Vista, causing havok for users. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.152.170.185 (talk) 06:19, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This operating system is in early stage of its development, so therefore no criticism developed yet. — Alex (T|C|E) 06:42, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality 

message: I'm confused, why is the backwards compatibility section about Windows Vista?  This is a Vienna article.  Am I missing something?Philipdistefano 20:18, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Backwards Compatibility

message: The article currently says that a new interface was planned for "Vienna, then moved to Vista, then back to "Vienna". Yet I have never read anything about the new interface being planned for Vista, except for this article and other websites qouting it. Can anyone prove to me that it was ever supposed to be in Vista? Josh the Nerd 12:40, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New interface 

message: Shouldn't this page be called Windows 7 instaed of Vienna? Ben Fathi of Microsoft Corp. said the codename has changed from Windows Vienna to a codename he could not release at this time. So why don't we change it to Windows 7?
Why Windows 7? Because Windows Vista was Windows NT 6.0 and so it (Windows Vienna) will be Windows NT 7.0 -Chetblong 00:59, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We aren't in a position to make that deduction... that's called original research, and it's against Wikipedia policy.  "Vienna" is a verifiably correct name; Microsoft has used it numerous times in presentations and interviews.  When Microsoft announces a name change, we can change the article name then.  -/- Warren 01:01, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  But there has been a name change, we just don't know what the new name is. - Chetblong 04:09, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We do not know for sure if there has been a name change, or is Windows 7 something else, o whatever. One thing we know for sure is that there has not been any official announcement. Without it, acting on rumors should be avoided. The change can be effected any time an official announcement (of either codename change, or selection of final name) is made. --soum (0_o) 04:16, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Windows Vienna's name change to an unknown name is not a rumor. Vista Follow Up Likley in 2009- Chetblong 00:43, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shouldn't It be Windows 7? 

message: Would that be correct? Chetblong 21:15, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No.   -/- Warren 02:34, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, well we will just have to wait. -- Chetblong 15:28, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  What About Windows NT 7.0? 

message: Currently I have windows vista, and would like to get a computer around 2009 (i got my tosh comp april). Will it be released by then? If not maybe will there be service upgrade packs for vista? Thanks, 71.136.233.5 03:09, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe Vienna will be released, but it is only speculation. There will be a service pack for Vista by that time, though. — Alex(U|C|E) 03:10, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Which computer brand would you suggest, Toshiba, LG, Dell, Sony, Hewlett Packard, Gateway, InternationalBuisnessMachines(IBM), Panasonic, Lenovo, NEC, or Apple (with Vista/Soon Vienna bundle)? The_EntertainerContra 23:39, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see what this has got to do with our article, Wikipedia is not a forum. Andrewjd 10:46, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Release Date 

message: Alex Heaton, Microsoft's Senior Product Manager, clarified a statement made by Bill Laing.
"Bill Laing, a General Manager in the Microsoft Windows Server Division, has been quoted as saying that Windows Server 2008 will be the last 32-bit operating system.  Bill is a server guy and indeed Windows Server 2008 is the last 32-bit server operating system – all future operating systems for server hardware from Microsoft beyond Windows Server 2008 will be 64-bit," Heaton said.
"A few folks took Bill’s comments on Windows Server and applied them to Windows Client deriving that Windows Vista would be the last 32-bit operating system. That is an incorrect extension.  While Windows Vista includes both 32-bit and 64-bit and there is a growing community of drivers for 64-bit Windows Vista, we have not decided when Windows Client will follow Windows Server and become 64-bit only."
--This appears to indicate that Windows Vienna MAY or MAY NOT ship in 32 bit. No one can confidently say what Windows has decided to do, and Paul Thurrott  has no more information on this than any of us do...
However, it does seem that in the interest of Windows users, Windows Vienna will continue to support 32 bit systems. Most people, at least at this point, have 32 bit systems and would not be able to upgrade. Obviously, we all will have to make that jump to 64 bit but with Vienna's scheduled release date just two years away, it doesn't seem like that transition will happen for Vienna.  
Anyone agree?
::Vienna or 7 or whatever it will end up being called will most likely be released in both 32 and 64 bit versions. They will not drop 32 bit until 64 bit compatibility is 100% stable. LN3000 05:22, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  There is no definite proof Vienna will ship in exlusively 64 bit!