Talk:Thessaloniki/Archive 1

message: * The recent edit by 'Crculver' mentions Old Church Slavonic speakers in Thessaloniki, prior to the missionary expedition of Ciryl and Methodius. The Old Church Slavonic, as its name implies, is a standarised from of Slavonic promoted by the Byzantine leaders to aid the christianization of the Slavs living in the north. Despite Thessaloniki's multicultural past and present, mainly because of its significant status as an international port and geographical crossroad, an established Slav or Slavonic-speaking community was never documented to exist in the city.
*"Old Church Slavonic" is a PC term for Old Bulgarian. Let's not pretend there were never any Bulgarians in and around Solun! I have seen a lot of mentions about Bulgarian communities there even in Greek sources. Vladko
** Vladko, calling them "Bulgarians" isn't appropriate. They were Slavs outside of the Kingdom of Bulgaria, and thus they did not get the influx of Bulghar Turks which was the biggest contribution to a distinctive Bulgarian people. It would be most accurate to call them "Macedonian Slavs", since they were Slavs who, well, lived in (Greek) Macedonia. However, that would create confusion with the inhabitants of the FYRO Macedonia far to the North. Oh, OCS isn't a "PC term" for Old Bulgarian. It is instead an attempt to encapsulate the entire range of old, church writings in the language of Cyril and Methodius. While 99% of writings could fairly be called Old Bulgarian (or, as some like, Old Macedonian), the highly important Kyiv Folia was produced purely within the Moravian tradition and its bears no link to the Kingdom of Bulgaria. So instead of writing the mouthful "Old Bulgarian and Moravian writings", scholars can just say OCS. Much more simple. Crculver 17:19, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm waiting for some experts on Slavonic to get back to me on the issue, and will rephrase when I have more info. Incidentally, the in question language can fairly decently be called Old Church Slavonic. While there is some codification and mixing evident, OCS is a clearly a South Slavic language and nearly identical with Proto-South-Slavic, therefore it is quite likely that it can be identified with the native language of Sts. Cyril and Methodius. Crculver 22:08, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)

text: Ulixes, as mentioned, you only need to read Byzantine history. I have already provided the statement by the emperor Micheal III. The mother of Cyril and Methodius was Slavic, and the Slavs had already besieged a great deal of Greece by that time, making significant inroads. Any textbook on Old Church Slavonic (such as those of Lunt, Schmalstieg, or Nandris) will discuss this. Books about the genesis of the Slavic people, such as the recent The Making of the Slavs by Florin Curta , will provide resources as well. No one is saying that the Slavs made a lasting impact--the community there seems to have wilted quickly--but they did happen to be a major force at the moment when Cyril and Methodius were sent north. Crculver 03:13, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

text: Okay, here are some references from very respectable works. Maria Gimbutas in The Slavs (New York: Praeger, 1971) writes: "In Book II of Miracula S. Demetrii there is a description of how Thessaloniki was sacked [by the Slavs]" (p. 103). In Handbook of Old Church Slavonic, Part II (London: University of London Athlone Press, 1960), R. Auty writes: "It is now certain that the Old Church Slavonic language in its original form was based on a Macedonian dialect spoken in the Slavonic hinterland of Salonika. This was finally established by V. Jagic in the second edition of his book Entstehungsgeschichte der kirchenslavischen Sprache (Berlin, 1913)." (p. 9). The Age of Migrations brought all sorts of people to Greece, and the Slavs were among them. I find it incredible that this is even in doubt by some here, since mention of the Slavic occupation of Greek Macedonia is so frequent in the literature. Crculver 22:52, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Slavs 

message: * Michael III had stated that the Thessalonikans spoke Slavic, but it is highly unlikely that the language he meant by that was the Old Church Slavonic. While another Slavic language (or languages) would be a possible scenario, or even a pan-Macedonian lingua franca with Greek and Slavic elements (a theory advocated by many), the Old Church Slavonic was a standardized liturgical language, a form of Slavonic promoted by the Byzantine authorities to aid the work of Cyril and Methodius. It is a mistake to refer to its existence prior to the mission of Cyril and Methodius, which is the key historical landmark here.
* The Thessalonikans have been always into the commercial and naval business. The city's port has always had great geopolitical import and has been the link between the Thessalonikans and the people they had commercial relationships with. Michael III's statement by all does not imply that the people that spoke Slavic also used Slavic as their mother tongue. The city's commercial bonds with the north of the Byzantine empire can explain the situation clear.
From the discussion above, we seem to agree that during the course of time, many people apart from the Greeks have contributed to Thessaloniki's history. These contributions ought to be recognized. However, your contribution to this article neglects important parts of the story. Focusing entirely on the Slavs, you fail to mention that the people who spoke 'Old Church Slavonic' (according to you) were in the commercial business (you do so in the talk page, however). Instead, you jump into the conclusion that Michael III had mentioned a Slavic-speaking population in Thessaloniki.
You have displayed some good will in your rephrase of your contributed paragraph, perhaps fearing that it may give rise to a sequel of the Macedonian name dispute, which is however not an issue here. Whether there have been a small or a large number of Slavic-speaking people in the city is not a major concern. It is important to make a distinction between people who just spoke Slavic and people who used Slavic as their mother tongue. And it is crucial to tell whether these Slavic-speaking people were emigrants, were part of an organized community, or were just merchants on a business trip.
For the sake of the above, I'd like you to be more specific on you what you contribute, and perhaps consider another 'rephrase'.
Etz Haim 19:02, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm waiting for some experts on Slavonic to get back to me on the issue, and will rephrase when I have more info. Incidentally, the in question language can fairly decently be called Old Church Slavonic. While there is some codification and mixing evident, OCS is a clearly a South Slavic language and nearly identical with Proto-South-Slavic, therefore it is quite likely that it can be identified with the native language of Sts. Cyril and Methodius. Crculver 22:08, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)

text: Ulixes, as mentioned, you only need to read Byzantine history. I have already provided the statement by the emperor Micheal III. The mother of Cyril and Methodius was Slavic, and the Slavs had already besieged a great deal of Greece by that time, making significant inroads. Any textbook on Old Church Slavonic (such as those of Lunt, Schmalstieg, or Nandris) will discuss this. Books about the genesis of the Slavic people, such as the recent The Making of the Slavs by Florin Curta , will provide resources as well. No one is saying that the Slavs made a lasting impact--the community there seems to have wilted quickly--but they did happen to be a major force at the moment when Cyril and Methodius were sent north. Crculver 03:13, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

text: Okay, here are some references from very respectable works. Maria Gimbutas in The Slavs (New York: Praeger, 1971) writes: "In Book II of Miracula S. Demetrii there is a description of how Thessaloniki was sacked [by the Slavs]" (p. 103). In Handbook of Old Church Slavonic, Part II (London: University of London Athlone Press, 1960), R. Auty writes: "It is now certain that the Old Church Slavonic language in its original form was based on a Macedonian dialect spoken in the Slavonic hinterland of Salonika. This was finally established by V. Jagic in the second edition of his book Entstehungsgeschichte der kirchenslavischen Sprache (Berlin, 1913)." (p. 9). The Age of Migrations brought all sorts of people to Greece, and the Slavs were among them. I find it incredible that this is even in doubt by some here, since mention of the Slavic occupation of Greek Macedonia is so frequent in the literature. Crculver 22:52, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  More details on the disputed section 

message: * Changing the birth date of Nazım Hikmet. It must be 1901. Because: "Nazım Hikmet was born on 21 November 1901 in Salonica, but his birth was certified as 15 January 1902 in order to prevent his age appearing older by a year older on account of 40 days." ([])
*Say something about the fact Thessaloniki was the first European city visited by St Paul? <-- irrelevant and not right!!!!! (Kavala (ancient Neapolis) was the first European city visited by St.Paul, then Phillipoi and later Thessaloniki)!!!!!!! <-- There should be a mention of the letters to the Thessalonians in the new Testament
* Turn the list in the "Museums" section into prose, possibly merging it with the "Landmarks" section
* More on the modern life of the city
* Sister cities (so far Leipzig and Köln)
* A location map of the city itself, not the prefecture
* Possibly more photos
* A separate article on the port of Thessaloniki (technical characteristics, freight movement, economical significance etc)
* Further collaborate on the economy of the city
* Other civic buildings of significance e.g. Court Houses, Opera Houses, etc
* History of Eptapyrgio
* Something in which I fully disagree is the expression : greek region of Macedonia??? so...is there a non greek region?? or Macedonia is not Greek but rather a case similar to i.e. Ireland (british north, irish the rest) ?????? 
Maybe mention that the Romans called it Thessalonica, since this spelling is common in older books written in English.
Feel free to either expand this list, or reduce it by doing some of the work. Etz Haim
:I removed the editprotected template. Please wait until the page is unprotected, then make these changes. Thank you for your appreciation! NCurse  work 17:43, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  To-do list 

message: The great fire of 1917, begun from a French army camp that was fighting against the Axis powers in the Balkan front at that time and destroyed the most of the city. Although the new design for the city was a modern one, it did not go as planned, mostly because the arrival of the 1922 catastrophe from Turkey changed the priorities of the Greek state from creating a modern city, to accomodating a large number of people within it. Eventually, the arrival of those mostly Greek people along with the expulsion of the Muslim Turks to Turkey and the retreat of the Jews to their homeland and their extinction by the Nazis resulted to the homogenization of Thessalonika.
You are mostly right... more or less. At the moment I am translating a good article from the greek Wikipedia on this fire into English. It should be ready soon. --Iago4096 06:46, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Great fire of old Salonika 

message: Id like to propose removing the following links as they are just travel sites using wikipedia for advertising. 'Thessaloniki Guide' 'Contemporary Thessaloniki' and 'Thessaloniki photos - an unforgettable impact'. I also think 'Thessaloniki Photo gallery' should be removed on quality grounds. Perhaps this could be included though it has add's http://www.greecetravel.com/thessaloniki/ --Ian 11:45, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The external links

message: * Could someone please help turn the list in the "Museums" section into prose, possibly merging it with the "Landmarks" section above? I doubt that there are going to be any separate articles for the items in this list any soon, unless of course User:Jengod who has contributed it has something in his mind. -- Etz Haim 14:15, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Miscellaneous 

message: Half of the links of the Thessaloniki page are to cheap commercial sites that do the city no justice. I cannot beleive that they were recommended by anyone? 
: If you feel that some of the external links currently listed at the Thessaloniki article are inappropriate, you are welcome to delete them and state your reason for doing so on the Talk page. Please read WP:NOT and familiarize yourself with Wikipedia's policies before doing so, however. CRCulver 16:42, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See the page history? I wasn't the one who removed the link to User:Acarvin's photo gallery, but the one who restored it, to be removed again later by someone else... I actually used to like the gallery link here, but it seems other people don't think the same.-- Etz Haim 20:00, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  Oh sorry about that Haim, i got confuse in the history. But the question remain to User:Acarvin. Chmouel 11:35, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, Acarvin was the original contributor and the one who took the pictuers with his camera... Take another look at the history. :) Cheers -- Etz Haim 14:56, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  Damn you right, sorry about the confusion... Chmouel 21:59, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Links to galleries of unfreely-licensed images are not very helpful to us.  Jkelly 16:32, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

text: If they are photographs that you have taken yourself, you can upload them to Wikimedia Commons.  See :commons:First steps/Upload form for help on how to do that.  Jkelly 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

text: That's okay.  I, or someone else, will move them over there eventually.  Your rotunda image is quite a nice shot.  I think that I prefer the closeup of the White Tower, however.  Jkelly 19:36, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

text: They let me out once a month.  Actually, nobody really "runs" the article; it is an entirely collaborative effort by volunteers.  Jkelly 20:49, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why were my pictures removed????? 

message: Just curious: what was the population of Thessaloniki in the 18th century (around 1760)? I couldn't find it on google. Bogdan | Talk 21:52, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  population of Thessaloniki 

message: I believe, like many people in Thessaloniki, that the old turkish jail (White Tower) should not be the symbol of a beautiful city like this. The same for Galerius Ark. What symbolizes a former turkish jail except pain and misery of Thessaloniki people during othomanic rule? What symbolizes the ark except "the glory of Galerius who beat Persia". It is a shame for the citizens of Thessaloniki to have this two buildings as symbols. Even Thermaikos Gulf cannot be a symbol because is one of the dirtiest gulfs around the globe. What about neoclassical houses? Few remained after 1917 fire and even fewer were fixed (usually with owners money and not municipalitys care). So neither these can be symbols. So I start this conversation as a little "crusade" to find a good symbol for Thessaloniki to replace this "White Tower" which I must remind was called "Tower of Blood" once upon a time. I want a symbol that expresses city history, its people fights, freedom and democracy. (Yes, I am fully aware of mr. Skambardonis opinions in "Panselinos" about the White Tower -- για ελληνόφωνους: "Τούρκικη Μπουγάτσα" and "Τούρκικη Παπαριά") User:Quantis | Talk
:Well, regardless of what one might desire, the White Tower is considered a symbol of Thessaloniki, not least by the residents of said city themselves.  The Arch of Galerius, to my understanding, is less known or cared about by the inhabitants.  Other symbols that come to mind include the Rotunda, although it's often oddly overlooked despite its impressive size, and several of the old churches, such as Thessaloniki's version of the Hagia Sophia. --Delirium June 28, 2005 21:27 (UTC)
The White Tower in Salonica was designed and constructed in the 16th century by the most famous of all Ottoman architects, Sinan. It was not orignally built as a prison but as a guard tower to monitor boats coming into the port, etc. It was only changed into a prison in the 19th century.
- mike
: While the White Tower was certainly used by the Turks, I vaguely remember tour guides saying it was built by the Venetians during their brief spell of rule in Thessaloniki in 1423–1430, just before the second Ottoman Conquest. Imladjov 15:42, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Symbols 

message: During the Byzantine era Thessaloniki was considered to be the second city (Συμβασιλεύουσα) of the empire (after Constantinople). After Constantinople, Thessaloniki was one of the major mints which produced coins for the empire. And the city was always called Thessaloniki by the inhabitants. +MATIA  ☎ 22:53, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  note on Byzantine era 

message: The name does appear to be from Ancient Macedonian language, but are there any theories regarding its meaning ? bogdan | Talk 14:58, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thessaloniki#Ancient_times +MATIA  ☎ 15:46, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

text: The name does mean "victory over Thessaly" and is derived from the name of King Philip II's daughter, Thessalonike (a half-sister of Alexander the Great).  When Thessalonike married Cassander (Kassandros) of Macedon, he renamed the old city of Therme in his wife's honor. Imladjov 15:42, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etymology 

message: The pictures in this article should be removed, the whole history of Solun/Thessaloniki is not being talked about, i ahve proofs of macedonians living there for thousands of years, greeks kicked out all macedonians from solun and turkish christians came from turkey there now, proofs 
Desecration of Macedonian graves at St. George's church = http://www.mhrmi.org/images/gorno_pozharsko2.jpg 
Another picture of the grave desecration = http://www.mhrmi.org/images/gorno_pozharsko4.jpg 
The following four pictures are from Sveti Atanas Church in Zhelevo, Aegean Macedonia. The original Macedonian inscriptions were wiped out and replaced with Greek writing. 
Entrance to church = http://www.mhrmi.org/images/svatanas1.jpg 
Close up of first picture where the Macedonian writing is still visible = http://www.mhrmi.org/images/svatanas2.jpg 
Another example of Macedonian writing that was wiped out = http://www.mhrmi.org/images/svatanas3.jpg 
Inside the church - icons were erased = http://www.mhrmi.org/images/svatanas4.jpg 
These pictures need to be added now, I have plenty more for anyone needs
user:Intranetman
:I'm having a hard time understanding exactly what it is that you're trying to express in some of the above.  I think that you are saying that Thessaloniki was Slavic, and that those images would contribute to the article by demonstrating that.  Please see Wikipedia's rules about No Original Research.  If it were true that you have discovered previously unknown evidence, you would have to get it published in a respected historical journal, and then we could cite it here.  I'd suggest that you avoid using the term "Aegean Macedonia", however, as it is likely to make people suspicious of your motivations.  Jkelly 16:32, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: NPOV yes, pro-RoM no. +MATIA  ☎ 12:51, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Remove exchange pictures from article 

message: Hi Matia, you changed the population figure. I got mine (363,987) from the 2001 census. That's the population of the city and municipality of Thessaloniki. I don't know where you got yours (809,457) from, but I think it's for the whole urban area, including several suburbs. The best solution IMO is to put the lower figure in the infobox, and put the higher figure somewhere in the text (in fact it's already there, with the reference to metropolitan area). Markussep 22:28, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Could you please give some sources for those figures? My source, the 2001 official census, says: 363,987 for the municipality, and 1,057,825 for the prefecture. I can imagine there are a lot of students who are still registered in their home towns, and probably a significant number of foreigners and illegals, but that's not half the population, is it? If what you claim is true, please feel free to write about it in the article. The infobox BTW should be about the municipality alone, the other 13 municipalities (which exactly?) that are part of the agglomeration of Thessaloniki have or will have their own articles. Markussep 19:53, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Population

message: A much much better article since the last time I visited it. There is a lot of work to be done though. Well done again; Salonica deserves a very good article. Astavrou 07:53, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Well Done. 

message: I've reorganised it, but may need some checking by people who know about these. See also Thessaloniki Video Dance Festival and Thessaloniki International Film Festival (those two events are documented enough, and are reputable enough to have a seperate article). talk to +MATIA 15:19, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice work.  Jkelly 16:39, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Festivals 

message: Like the anonymous editor said, there's a lot of Ottoman history missing that should be incorporated. Even more recently, why isn't the population exchange between Turkey and Greece that occurred before WWII mentioned? I'll try to ameliorate this problem some, but it may take me a few days to have enough time. Yom 22:49, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ottoman History 

message: Hello!  Given ongoing discussions and recent edit warring, a poll is currently underway to decide the rendition of the lead for the Republic of Macedonia article.  Please weigh in! E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 01:04, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Talk:Republic of Macedonia#POLL: Introduction for Republic of Macedonia article|POLL: Introduction for Republic of Macedonia article]] 

message: This whole thing is pretty strange.  During the First Balkan War, terrible things were done to Turkish military and civilians by the Balkan Allies (and vice-versa).  But it is extremely strange to attempt to work that into the article on Thessaloniki and accuse the Greeks of a massacre there.  This does not at all match my memory of mainstream accounts of what is a very well-documented event.  If we think that the article needs a paragraph on the days during the end of the First Balkan War, I'll dig out a couple of books and write it.  Jkelly 01:53, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  End of the First Balkan War 

message: RADIO AND TELEVISION SHOULD BE LAST, NOT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PAGE—Preceding unsigned comment added by Reaper7 (talk • contribs) 
:Please don't use all caps.  Jkelly 16:16, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Layout 

message: I need someone to confirm whether Vassilios Papageorgopoulos, the mayor of Thessaloniki, is the same person as Vassilios Papageorgopoulos the former sprinter. Thanks, Punkmorten 21:14, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Did you confirm this?  Jkelly 04:05, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Glad I dropped by... Yes he is. See his biography in the official municipality site. The Greek text reads (among others): "He matched the Pan-European record for 100 meters and won three medals in the Pan-European games. He participated in the Olympic games of Munich and Montreal, where he held the flag of the Greek team." •NikoSilver• 16:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mayor of Th. 

message: I'm not going to revert the removal of the Hebrew, but I'm a little unhappy about the reason for its removal.  It is true that Hebrew is not currently a major language in Thessaloniki, but Ladino was for centuries.  Jkelly 19:03, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe it would be better to have the Ladino name instead of the Hebrew one. Although i am not sure about it... to make a comparison, in Kayseri there is the name in Greek, not in Cappadokian Greek. athough the difference may had not been important enough, i think that the major language of the ethnic group should be used, and since the Shephardim are a Jewish ethnic group, and since Hebrew is the language of the Jews, i think it is OK for it to stay in the article. --Hectorian 19:09, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The reason why I removed it is because the Jews of Thessaloniki used Hebrew to read the Torah, they didn't use it as a vernacular. Hebrew as an everyday language is a modern invention, which is due largely to the work of a man known as Eliezer Ben-Yehuda. This is why it is the official language of Israel today, rather than Yiddish or Russian. —Khoikhoi 19:16, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

text: The distinction between the two became a political issue when Ladino was not included in the list of languages used for the holocaust memorial.  The argument was that the two languages aren't mutually intelligible which isolated Greek Jews in the concentration camps.  I need to find some reliable sourcing for this, actually, and add it to History of the Jews in Greece.  Jkelly 19:23, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Since our fellow wikipedian added the name in Ladino, i will not insist in the inclusion of the Hebrew. seems better this way. --Hectorian 19:28, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks Hectorian. :) (to Jkelly) However, I'm a bit confused here: the Holocaust memorial was only in Greek? Did it include Hebrew as well? —Khoikhoi 19:35, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hebrew, Yiddish, and a number of other languages but no Ladino (and probably no Greek).  At least that's what I recall.  I really do need to look this up... Jkelly 19:37, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Hebrew?

message: The article indicates the city has both private and state universities. Greece has no private universities. If this indicates branches of foreign universities, then it must be highlighted. Personally, I would stick with the state university because reference to a tiny private university might pass for advertising. Politis 17:47, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: University

message: I just added a photo gallery to the article. PLEASE, dont remove it or vandalize it. If you want to add  a photo, please feel free to do it so. The (Twinnings) as well as the (Modern Era) needs to be edited a bit. Thanks. Salonica84 11:02, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nightview and parade should both vanish. Συγγνώμη φίλε Salonica84... •NikoSilver• 16:42, [6 September 2006 (UTC)
OK, now this is getting out of control, someone added two pictures of roads in the travel section. In what way are pictures of roads and Thessaloniki's less than interesting airport necessary for this encyclopedia?? Ian 07:39, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

text: You keep ordering people not to remove photos as if you have the right to make all the decisions around here. You don't own this article, and other users are free to remove content they believe is inappropriate, provided others here agree, even if you demand such material remain. CRCulver
I don't keep ordering. Everybody is free to remove or add material. However, before removal, there should be a little discussion, otherwise there could be edit-conflict, as you know. But you don't own this article as well and moreover you are not from the city to which the article refers. Be serious. Salonica84 23:27, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

text: If you look at Wikipedia guidelines, namely the "Owning" warning, users are prohibited from insinuating that someone is a lesser editor simply because they are not from the place the article describes. Whether someone is from Thessaloniki makes no difference here. In any event, your tone here on the Talk page is aggressive, and you do seem to this editor at least to seek to monopolise the section. CRCulver 23:31, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Photo Gallery (NEW)

message: Despina Skenderis
It is NOT Saloniki or Salonika.It's THESSALONIKI, period!
The city was built in 316 BC by Kassandros, son of Antipatros who was Alexander the Great's general. He had married Thessaloniki, half sister of Alexander the Great, and named the city after her.  
It was the Jewish wonderer, Benjamin Toudela who during the 12th century AD, "mentions" the city as "Salouski". Then the Arab geographer Entrize mentions it as "Saloniki". Later the Bulgarians call it "Saloun" or "Seloun", the Vlachs call it "Siruna", and the Turks as "Selanik". The name was changed by the peoples above according to their linguistic form. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 205.188.116.134 (talk • contribs) 20:41, 16 September 2006.
:Are you talking about the English or Greek name? It is still widely called Salonica in English. —Khoikhoi 20:43, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's commonly called Σαλονίκη in Greek as well, and Σαλλλονίκη by the locals.;)--ΚέκρωΨ 10:47, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep. It is. Also, the Greek WP, mentions Σαλονίκη (=Saloniki) in the relative article as an informal appellation. •NikoSilver• 11:01, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The name of Thessaloniki 

message: I agree with you JKelly but I hope you will also agree that it is way overlong and it could have an article of its own. Also agree on the radio stations, they need to be edited out and, if necessary, placed in a new article, Thessaloniki (radio stations), or whatever. Politis 16:51, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah.  Once things settle down a little at this article, we should take a look at the article guidelines for cities and ruthlessly move some of this stuff to more appropriate places.  That said, Thessaloniki was unique in having a majority Jewish population, and was centre of Judaism in Europe for centuries.  I'd really hate for that to be played down while we endlessly argue about where in the article the Slavic name for the city should go... Jkelly 16:56, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Jews section and radio stations

message: The correct Aromanian name (as you can see on  is Sãrunã. Because I cannot change this, I'd like to ask somebody to do it for me. Thank you. Eeamoscopolecrushuva 11:55, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Hectorian 14:22, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Aromanian name