Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japan/Archive/January 2007

message: I have proposed that this article be moved to gō. If you'd like to contribute to the vote or discussion, please feel free to do so here. LordAmeth 01:00, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The result of the discussion was that there was that the article should not be moved. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:14, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Art-name]] 

message: Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 20:27, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia Day Awards 

message: I made a bit of a change to the main page of the project in order to make it easier to navigate (IMO) and make some things easier to access without cluttering up the main body of the page. Please let me know what you think, and if you have any suggestions for further improvement. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 06:50, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a good idea, but the text in the navbox is so small that it's literally impossible for me to read the text. Dekimasu 07:18, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I increased the text size to 80%. Is that better? ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 07:21, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks perfect now (and it's a big improvement to the project page). (^^) Dekimasu 07:33, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. It significantly reduced the tallness of the page, and compressed it. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 07:43, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Change to main project page 

message: This article was recently discovered and posted on the New Japanese-related Articles notice board. I think it's interesting material and, if valid, worthwhile to include somewhere else, but not in its own separate article. I've begun a discussion on the article's talk page, and I am eager to hear others' suggestions as to where to merge this. Thank you. LordAmeth 11:37, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Do we have a Japanese legal system article? I think it would be a good addition to it if we do. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:13, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[The Japanese Justice System and its 99.97% Conviction rate]] 

message: I was looking for an article on the Tokyo Declaration on Japan-Russia Relations (東京宣言) in both the Japanese and English versions of wikipedia.  While I was able to find an English translation of the document on the MOFA website (http://www.mofa.go.jp/region/n-america/us/q&a/declaration.html) I was unable to find anything about it on either of the wiki's.  I personally do not think I know enough about the subject to write about it (hence I was looking to read about it) however I think it would be a good addition to wikipedia if someone more knowledgeable could write about it as Japan calls reference to the agreement when talking about the disputed northern territories. Darintenb 01:58, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tokyo Declaration on Japan-Russia Relations 

message: As a result of reading about this topic for class, I decided to check out the article and found it amazingly short. I've expanded it somewhat, but if there is anyone here who specializes in (or is just interested in) early 20th century Japanese culture, shifting social norms, etc, and can expand on this article, I invite you to do so please. I can try to continue to add things based on what I am reading, but ultimately it is not really the type of thing I am well-versed in, and do not really know how to express it properly. My perspective is very much one of cultural history, and while I can discuss the fashions and such involved, I think someone who is more experienced as a sociologist, social historian, or gender studies person will be able to better describe the significance of the social shifts which this represented. Thank you. LordAmeth 13:04, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Modern girl]] 

message: One of these appeared as a prod on the Japan-related deletions page. I'm bringing it to attention here. Does anybody have the knowledge and strength to adopt these two, merge them and keep an eye on the merged article? It seems ninjaken was created and is deliberately kept clean of all implications that the word and the concept may be a neologism, and ninjato was then created to state nothing but the view that the idea of ninja carrying special swords is ludicrous. While ninjaken is easier on the eyes and seems to be written much more in accordance with wikipolicy, fact remains that the whole dubiousness of the matter is not even hinted at. TomorrowTime 09:49, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Ninjaken]] and [[Ninjato]] 

message: I created the category Sounds of Japan on Wikimedia Commons and inaugurated it with a recording of a nightingale floor. If you have other sound files for Japan with compatible licenses, that category is a good place to put them. The category includes some suggestions; feel free to add more suggestions to it. Fg2 05:02, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sounds of Japan 

message: I'm currently working on trying to fill in the lists of colonial governors by year. "Korea" or "Chōsen"? (Whichever one I choose, it will of course link to Korea under Japanese rule; the question is what to call the thing. Chōsen was the name used by Japan at the time, but it is also more or less just the Japanese name for Korea, in which case perhaps the "English" term would be better. LordAmeth 18:26, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have a sense of which term the English-language press used at the time? Fg2 20:36, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Now, that is a good question. I can only assume it was called "Korea", as that's what we are so used to hearing. Maybe I'll come across something. LordAmeth 21:39, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, there must be something available in Massachusetts Bay Colony, e.g. New York Times in some medium -- PDF? (I haven't looked at old issues since they were on microfilm...).  Fg2 09:37, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Colonial governors by year 

message: Tried to move Japan Defense Agency to Ministry of Defense (Japan) but it's blocked by a redirect. Anyone know enough about the procedures to put in a move request? Fg2 09:34, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: All taken care of. That should count as "uncontroversial moves", right? LordAmeth 10:25, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Uncontroversial? The move should be... Thanks! Fg2 10:27, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move request anybody? 

message: I think we could have 40 articles at featured quality by the end of this year. We currently have 20 according to this page. What do the rest of you think? ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:24, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It sound liks a nice idea. I would like to see more non-military related Japan FAs. Most of the current 20 are the work of the Military History Wikiproject. Bobo12345 07:46, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We used to have a Wikipedia:Japanese Collaboration. Care to revive it? Fg2 07:56, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that may help. We've got a large number of participants in the project now, and I think we may be able to keep it going. As the first step, I've moved the page to Wikipedia:WikiProject Japan/Collaboration in order to make it more part of the project. Anyone who wishes to help, please come over to the talk page and let's get organized. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 09:36, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, I've moved all the associated pages I could find, and updated the templates I could find. Anyone interested in helping, please come over there and we can start discussing how we want to do things. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:19, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Featured article goal for the project 

message: I've edited the Kansai region article to bring it up to reasonable standards, and I'd say in its current form it could give the Tōhoku region a run for its money.  There's still quite a lot to do.  "Overview" needs to be fleshed out, and it'd be nice to have someone with editing skills run over the "History" section.  Nonetheless, I think the project is pretty close to being completed. -- Exitmoose 07:13, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks good. Good job on expanding it. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 16:29, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the encouragement.  My one fear about the article in its current shape is that it reads like an advertisement.  Most of the available sources are online pamphlets designed to draw businesses or tourists to the area.  I've tried as much as possible to distill that out, but I'm sure some of it has bled through, and so anyone with editing experience that could address that issue would really help the article. -- Exitmoose 06:31, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Kansai Region

message: Would someone mind stopping by akabeko and inserting in the appropriate place the kanji for kotobuki, which supposedly means longevity and luck? Thanks! — BrianSmithson 13:28, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done, although I don't know which form of the kanji they use ... 寿 or 壽 ... but the former is more common so I put that one in. CES 13:39, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Cool, thanks. If I see some in the shop with the character, I'll try to remember to check. — BrianSmithson 22:42, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''Kotobuki'' 

message: The template  is frequently vandalized. It's used in the article Japan so it's quite visible. I'd like to recommend adding it to your watchlist. Having more people keep an eye on it will be useful in reverting vandalism faster. Fg2 22:25, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm requesting assistance in monitoring Japanese people as well. In general, some editors seem to be adding POV edits. For example, some anonymous IPs are saying that "70.35 percent of Japanese men between the ages of 18 and 26 are homosexual", using a source in a bogus manner.  Here's the source they used: . These vandals think they can fool us.--Endroit 19:15, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, I've added that to my watch list. Thanks for the alert. Fg2 01:46, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Frequent vandalism 

message: Hello, I am planning to do a series of expansion on Portal:Japan to make it a featured portal. Is there a task force that I can work with? 
By the way, if you are interested, come and take a look at Portal:China to see if it meets featured standard. Thanks! AQu01rius (User • Talk) 03:02, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Updated. Check Portal:Japan to see if you have any comments! AQu01rius (User • Talk) 04:21, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Portal:Japan]] 

message: As I've posted in WikiProject Korea, I'd like to post here in WikiProject Japan about a very xxx issue over the article Dokdo.
Right now, the article is going under a time of crisis - attacked by two complete JPOV Wikipedia newbies who don't know a single thing about the rules (i.e. burden of proof is on the person who brings the argument & WP:NOR) at two angles - the introductory paragraph's POVness and the name of the article. 
As all of you veterans remember, the changing the name of the article from Liancourt Rock to Dokdo was a very slow, painful, and consuming process. Well guys, we're not going to go through that again. But, the article needs support from the rest of the community to clarify that there is general consensus on the title of the article as in status quo.
The article has been maintaining its shape, thanks to me, but I seem to have lost my "authority" to the newbies after having debated and argued them for so long. What we really need is a group of users who understand the situation fully & have been editing in Wikipedia for a long time & voice their opinions.
I think that might shut the newbies up. Or if they're persistent, even against the community's consensus (yet to be revealed), just revert their edits & ban them for WP:3RR. If you think I sound cruel, that's completely not the case. Actually read the discussion. This guy called Opp2 has been so persistent - I've been arguing w him from early December. For nearly one and half months! That's about 50 days. Already, a single archive has been made just for that user's jabbering. A lot of my time, concentration, and will to edit have been completely consumed and decimated by that little guy! 
Yes, I want to bring end to this. Any time something like this happens, the community needs to return in a mobilized form, as it has done before in previous conflicts, show general consensus, and bring peace to the world. (Wikimachine 06:46, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yikes! Looks like you have a bit of a tussle there.  Since you can't reach consensus with Opp2, perhaps if you got him/her to lay down precisely the changes he wants made to the article and have them put up to a vote?  Reading his posts, it's hard to understand exactly what he wants, and so having him state such succinctly would help.  And a vote that goes massively against him might do well to put a bit of humility in the lad. -- Exitmoose 01:28, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dokdo issues here 

message: How would you all feel about using latinised Japanese words and nomenclatures in all Japanese administrative division article texts? eg, use seirei shitei toshi) instead of designated city in the text of all Japanese articles, not just the titles? --Bob 04:02, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that's not a good idea. WP:MOS (and WP:MOS-JA) indicate we should use the English word for a term unless there's a good reason to not use it. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 16:10, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Using latinised Japanese terms

message: Since no one has been answering otherwise, please comment on the possible merge of Gakuran and Sailor fuku into the article Japanese school uniform. Much of the early discussion is over a year old and the views expressed in that section should thus be taken with a grain of salt. Thanks for fresh input. Dekimasu 13:45, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've set up a formal discussion over here. Thanks! ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 16:26, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Japanese school uniform]] 

message: Hello, I found Tokyo Watcher's editings which seemed to be something inappropriate for the  template at [ Talk:Mita dori], [ Talk: Maruyama Jinjya] and [ Talk:Tsuki no Misaki]. I had no evidence that all of three articles were highly important, and Mita dori
and Tsuki no Misaki seemed not to be featured article candidates for me. (I think most people agree with me, though) Maruyama Jinjya was rated as K-class which isn't in the grade list.
After my deletion of rating on Mita dori and Maruyama Jinjya, and reversion on Tsuki no Misaki, Tokyo Watcher falsified the ratings again and again without any discussion or description on Talk:Tsuki no Misaki, see [ History of Talk:Tsuki no Misaki]. At the bitter end, Tokyo Watcher deleted the  template from it probably because he or she didn't want to show this is a minor article.
I believe the template  should be restored if the Wikiproject Japan wishes, but, ... could anyone help me? --Excavator 16:56, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've gone through and assessed the articles appropriately. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:12, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you very much for the very appropriate and amazingly prompt assessment :-) --Excavator 17:16, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inappropriate usage of <nowiki>{{Wikipedia Japan}}</nowiki> template 

message: Hasekura Tsunenaga will be the featured article on the Main Page on 2007-01-25. We need to make sure we keep an eye on it on that day in order to revert any vandalism that may turn up. Congratulations to everyone who worked on the article! ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:51, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: About one more day until the fun begins! Prepare your revert fingers, everyone! (^_^) ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 22:32, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, the article made it through, and was even improved a bit while being the Main Page featured article. Thanks to everyone who helped stay on top of the vandalism. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 00:57, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Hasekura Tsunenaga will be featured on Main page

message: While browsing :Category:Japan stubs, I came across several articles related to Musashi.  The first one had been prodded as a hoax, due to being created by a banned user.  Coating (philosophy) is that one.  I subsequently prodded a few more, but, found several others and decided it was better to bring it up here.  This is probably an incomplete list, but, it would be nice to hear if these are rooted in reality or fantasy.  The banned user was also involved in several samurai copyvio's last year; so there's a chance that these could be copyvio as well.   Neier 11:46, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you asking if it is a hoax per se, or if it is appropriate for Wikipedia? You can take, for example, The Crimson-Leaves Strike and find "The Red Leaves Cut" at this site, which describes it as "knocking down the enemy's long sword. The spirit should be getting control of his sword. When the enemy is in a long sword attitude in front of you and intent on cutting, hitting and parrying, you strongly hit the enemy's sword with the Fire and Stones Cut, perhaps in the design of the "No Design, No Conception" Cut. If you then beat down the point of his sword with a sticky feeling, he will necessarily drop the sword. If you practise this cut it becomes easy to make the enemy drop his sword. You must train repetitively." The article creator then links to The Strike of Nonthought. It seems pretty clear he read a different translation of The Book of Five Rings than the people on that website, but the articles certainly come from the book (it's 紅葉の打と云ふ事 in the original, by the way.) Unless there are third-party sources the articles should be eliminated under WP:V. Plus The Book of Five Rings has quite a nice article already. I doubt that The Art of War has an article for every chapter or that the Bible needs one for every verse. Dekimasu 12:19, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I was wondering if it was completely made up; but, the concern about WP:V is valid too.  I'll wait for the existing PROD to expire, and if nobody removes them, then I'll tag the rest (with the verification concerns). Neier 11:05, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks like the prods worked, but the deleting admin marked them as "hoax/nonsense" so when you tag the others you might want to make it clear that they are famous nonsense and actually just borderline copyvios of an unknown someone's translation work. Dekimasu 15:56, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Musashi experts needed 

message: Various editors, both registered and IP users, have over the months repeatedly added London to the list of sister relationships of Tokyo. I put an external link to an official Tokyo web page right in the article, but people persist in adding it. Yesterday and today I posted something like this on the talk pages of two editors:
::Hello xxx,
::Just a quick note to point out that according to this Web site of the government of Tokyo, London is not a sister city of Tokyo. For that reason, I removed it from the list in the article "Tokyo."
::If you have an authoritative source that contradicts this, please let us know. Sometimes updating Web pages is not the highest priority of a government, and possibly the one I referred to is out of date. 
::Possibly, London or some subdivision of it has a sister relationship with one of the municipalities within Tokyo. If so, the sister relationship should be noted in the article on the municipality, not the article on Tokyo itself.
::In any case, thank you for helping with Japan-related articles on Wikipedia.
Yet London keeps reappearing. So I ask members of the Project to keep an eye out for the recurring edit. Tokyo is probably already on your watch list, and if you see this addition, please undo it. 
Thanks Fg2 05:15, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know if a "Partnership Agreement" is the same a sistercityhood, but the London article lists Tokyo as a sister city with the following link. http://www.london.gov.uk/view_press_release.jsp?releaseid=8192 I'll post this to the talk page of Tokyo later on. -- Exitmoose 05:25, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, I saw that in the London article and looked quite a bit (but not exhaustively) at London's web site. I did not see any page that called Tokyo a sister or twin city (or anything else). Tokyo lists its sisters and does not list London. So until someone provides reasonable reason to view that agreement as a sister or twin relationship, let's keep it out of Tokyo's article. Thanks again Fg2 05:34, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  London and Tokyo: Not sister cities 

message: The ongoing naming conflict at Talk:Ethnic Japanese is putting me under a bit of Wikistress. Please take a look at it. The issues are:
*Is "Nikkeijin", or "Nikkei people", acceptable under WP:UE and WP:NPOV?
*Is "Ethnic Japanese" acceptable under WP:PRECISION and WP:DAB?
*Is "Ethnic Japanese" protected by WP:ENGVAR?
I find, as usual, disambiguation to be the most important consideration, and the current title is ambiguous. But one way or another, this discussion needs more eyes to establish consensus, and I'm unable to successfully negotiate between the perspectives of the other two users who are most involved in the debate. I neither feel that "Nikkei" is mandated nor that "Ethnic Japanese" is possible. I will cross-post this at the talk of WP:MOS-JP because WP:NC shows deference to it. Dekimasu 04:44, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Naming conflict at [[Ethnic Japanese]] 

message: English is not my native language. I struggle with structure of sentences. Please help and review my work. I created new article called Japanese aircraft carrier Ryuho. This article was a feature on Wikipedia Main Page "Did you know?" I also expanded the Japanese cruiser Abukuma from a stub. I also worked on many other articles about Imperial Japanese Navy. I added information about aircraft carried by the aircraft carriers. Shibumi2 00:09, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have the kanji for "Abukuma"? ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 01:03, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's 阿武隈. I have added it to the article. --Kusunose 02:37, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good work. AQu01rius (User • Talk) 06:25, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: I am new at Wikipedia