Talk:Protestant Church in Germany

message: The German word "Evangelisch" is to my understanding better translated to Protestant than to Evangelical, s. Protestant Reformation, Protestant Church in Hesse and Nassau. Consistency is desirable, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:29, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: See this thread in the archives as well as several threads in /Archive 1/ for previous discussion on this. The church itself uses the name "Evangelical Church in Germany" on its English-language website. And using the word Evangelical in the meaning of German evangelisch is not unknown in English, although it's rare compared to its usual meaning "having to do with Evangelicalism". Using Evangelical in its "German meaning" is especially common in the names of churches, such as the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America or the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Canada, neither of which is "Evangelical" in that word's most common English meaning. —Angr (talk) 12:42, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no time to read all this, but to remark that such translations from German institutions often lack knowledge of English, therefore the least controversial way might be to use the German name as the article name and give translations as redirects, as it is done for many German universities and theaters, s. Hochschule für Musik und Darstellende Kunst Frankfurt am Main or Hessisches Staatstheater Wiesbaden, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:38, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The first of those links redirects to Frankfurt University of Music and Performing Arts, though. Using German names of institutions is fine when they don't have English names, but the EKD does have an English name, and its English name is no more misleading or incorrect than the names of the North American churches I mentioned above. And those were (presumably) named by native English speakers. —Angr (talk) 13:50, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry for the bad example, smile (but there are others, like Hochschule für Musik und Theater München). I don't doubt that native English speakers name churches "Evangelical" which tend to Evangelicalism. The German official churches called "Evangelische Kirche" don't. I am afraid that is misleading, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:48, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: No, my point is that there are churches named "Evangelical" by native English speakers that are not evangelikal but only evangelisch, including the two listed above: the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America and the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Canada. Neither of those two churches adheres to Evangelicalism; they are using the word "evangelical" in the same way as the EKD uses the word "evangelisch". Although the English word "evangelical" most often means evangelikal, it can also mean evangelisch. Especially in the names of churches. —Angr (talk) 15:17, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it's great that the article addresses potential confusiion related to the meaning of "Evangelical," but is there no citation for it.  As an Evangelical Lutheran myself, I had the impression that it meant "the same as the 'Evangelical' you normally think of except that we're shy/nice about it and instead of standing on street corners with a sign, just tell visitors that there's coffee after the service and leave it at that."208.68.128.53 (talk) 23:24, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Nope, that is commonly confused. " Evangelicalism is a moderate form of Protestant Christian fundamentalism and has roots in American culture. The term "evangelical" used in this article was used by Luther and early Protestants to describe their doctrines as faithful to the gospel. Obviously, you can be both evangelical and Evangelical Lutheran. Ltwin (talk) 00:13, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name Evangelical vs Protestant 

message: "Important Protestant denominations that are not part of the Evangelical Church in Germany include the United Methodist Church ... (whole paragraph)" is incorrect. 
"Important" maybe in the U.S. but not in Germany. These are very small denominations and seen as more or less exotic. Methodists and Baptists never had a foothold in Germany, Pentecostals and Adventists are seen as American sects not to be taken seriously, and the New Apostolic Church is highly unpopular for their authoritarian style.
Again, none of all these denominations is important in Germany as they neither are influential nor have a meaningful number of members. They are dwindingly small.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.131.71.12 (talk) 09:10, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  minorities 

message: In 2012, three churches in northern parts of Germany merged to one church.
* nordkirche.de (german) 178.3.31.188 (talk) 18:07, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merging of three churches to one church in Northern Germany in 2012 

message: Sorry the name “Evangelical” might be the correct word by word translation but holds completely different connotations in English. I would suggest to replace the word “Evangelical” with “Protestant”. --Catflap08 (talk) 17:15, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: True, see above, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:07, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name of the article 

message: A few months back I had an email exchange with the EKD on this article. They seem to be well aware of the fact that the expression “evangelical” (or in German “evangelikal”) does these days holds different implications. In common use however the German term “evangelisch” corresponds to “protestant” in English. The German term “evngelikal” corresponds to the common use of “evangelical” in English. That’s what it boils down to – only the official “seal” is missing, as the EKD itself translates the German term “evangelisch” to the English “evangelical” even though the common use says different.  --Catflap08 (talk) 18:24, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I still don't see any problem about it and I don't see why the official translation should change. There are many non-evangelical churches having "Evangelical" in their names, notably including the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. --Checco (talk) 12:45, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Evangelisch vs Evangelical 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: User:Po Mieczu moved the page name, adding "Lutheran" in to the title. Obviously, this would cause problems because the church is actually a federation of Lutheran, Reformed and United regional churches. Please see the above discussions on the name, and discuss any future naming proposals on the talk page first. Ltwin (talk) 17:00, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: User talk:Ltwin I have seen the discussion. In English usage "evangelical", as others have pointed out, is not a translation of the German "evangelisch". In English it literally means following the Gospels and applies to Protestant churches, as opposed to Catholic or Orthodox denominations. It commonly refers to the more "fundamentalist" side of Anglicanism. To misuse an English adjective as a nominative for a foreign group of churches just because it sounds similar is really not helpful or accurate in an encyclopaedia. You might consider altering the title simply to "Protestant" for that is the actual translation of "evangelisch". --Po Mieczu (talk) 17:18, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: User:Po Mieczu, this has been fully discussed before (check out the archives on the right side of the screen). Of course, we can always discuss it again, and see if consensus changes. However, as I said above, the name should not be "Lutheran" as the church is not simply a Lutheran church. But, here is food for thought, in English speaking countries, Lutheran churches are often called "Evangelical"—Evangelical Lutheran Church in America being an example. So, while it may be confusing, the reality is that in the English speaking world there are two uses for the term "evangelical", but it just so happens that the meaning of Evangelicalism is what most people think of rather than the more broad meaning of "Protestant." Ltwin (talk) 17:32, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I perfectly agree with Ltwin, who subscribed to my long-held position (see aforementioned threads). --Checco (talk) 08:39, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

text: Thanks for reverting that move. The discussion about "Evangelical" or not will continue in all eternity, but "Lutheran" is just plain wrong here. There's absolutely nothing to discuss about that. --91.34.40.110 (talk) 07:22, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move to Evangelical Lutheran Church in Germany reverted 

message: "The Church Office is the administration of the EKD and shall the business of the Synod, Council and Conference of the EKD."
Something surely must be missing here -- presumably the verb. What was it meant to be?
Also, I'd like to know why all these words are capitalized. Is something like "Church Office" really to be considered a proper name in English? --91.34.40.110 (talk) 07:33, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Strange sentence 

message: The article says "United (Prussian Union)" churches. Thats not correct in that way. United protestant churches in Germany (Unierte Landeskirchen) are mergers of lutheran and reformed churches, but not all of them were parts of "Prussian Union". Many of them have their origins in Prussian Union of 1817, but others not: f.e. "Evang. Kirche der Pfalz" and "Ev. Kirche Landeskirche in Baden" were united in german states which weren't part of Prussia. And there are different kinds of United Churches. Most of them are an administration merger and their parishes and ministers can chose if they want to use lutheran, reformed or united religious confession (of course most chose united one). But f.e. Palatinian church is a genuine merger whith only united confession. (of course some parishes and ministers have either  more lutheran or reformed elements  but there's no official difference). Of course all United Chuches in Germany (UEK) are members of EKD.
ManfredV (talk) 13:41, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  United (Prussian Union)