Talk:Style of the British sovereign

message: Why is the title of the British sovereign "X, by the Grace of God, OF THE UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND NORTHERN IRELAND QUEEN" and not "X, by the Grace of God, QUEEN OF THE UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND NORTHERN IRELAND"? Before the union with Ireland, the style was "X, by the Grace of God, King of Great Britain," and then after the union it became "X, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland King," why the change? I get that the title in Latin has "Queen" after "of Great Britain," but an accurate and correct translation should still be "Queen of Great Britain," right?  And, after Ireland separated from the UK, the title, under George V, "by the Grace of God, of Great Britain, Ireland and the British Dominions beyond the Seas, King" and not "King of Great Britain, Ireland, etc." WHY is King/Queen AFTER the title!?
:These just are the gazetted, official English titles. (Please sign your posts.) Errantios (talk) 13:50, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: of Great Britain Queen?

message: There's currently a discussion at Talk:Royal and Parliamentary Titles Act about the constitutional significance of the Act and its impact on the relationship between the UK, the Crown and the dominions. The problem is that the article as it stands makes some very sweeping but questionable claims about the impact of the Act on the status of the monarch vis-a-vis the dominions. Input from anyone with any knowledge of or interest in this area would be greatly appreciated. This notice may be put up on a couple of other talkpages. Iota 00:05, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Request for outside input: Royal and Parliamentary Titles Act, 1927

message: I have a question after I read the following passage in the Wiki-article "Peerage":
All British honours, including peerage dignities, spring from the Sovereign, who is considered the fount of honour. The Sovereign him or herself cannot belong to the Peerage as "the fountain and source of all dignities cannot hold a dignity from himself" (opinion of the House of Lords in the Buckhurst Peerage Case).
It seems to me that the above passage is not correct, because British monarch could hold ohter aristocratic titles besides the title King, for example:
Lord of Man, Prince of Orange(William III), Elector of Hannover(George I), Duke of Normandy(Henry II) etc.
Could anyone please explain to me ?
--Siyac 14:37, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  British Monarch 

message: Q: Does anyone know an example of a member of British royal family who is a commoner ?
--Siyac 12:24, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  A few questions 

message: Can somebody please add an explanation as to why the Welsh translation is included? I suppose it's the one language other than English regularly used in British government, but why should it be used in this article if it's effectively a translation?
:Yes, why is it also in Welsh? GoodDay 23:27, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Presumably because it is the only other language in which the style is officially defined.  Even a translation will have nuances, so is worth including.  I think that if this were an article about the style of the sovereign a non-English-speaking country, we would include it in all the languages in which it was officially defined, as well as in English.  TSP 23:36, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  See United Kingdom fo similiar arguement on the UK's official language. If Welsh is added, Scottish & Irish should be too. GoodDay 00:09, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think you're making the question too broad.  The issue is not what the UK's official language(s) is/are, but simply in what languages the Style of the British Sovereign has been officially defined.  Sources are provided for the two existing languages.  If you can find sources which state what the style of the British sovereign has been officially defined to be in either Irish or Scots Gaelic, then absolutely they should be included; but we should not be saying what languages these things should be defined in, merely reporting what languages they are defined in.  TSP 11:56, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, I was just 'surprised' that there's no 'Scottish' or 'Irish' transilations. GoodDay 21:17, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  There are different issues here.  Welsh has always been a living language in active use in Wales; the lowest its use has dropped to is 21%, and it is now rising from that.  Scots Gaelic was rescued from near extinction during the latter half of last century, and only a few percent of the population speak it as a primary language.  Irish, while spoken widely in some parts of the Republic of Ireland, is rarer in Northern Ireland (with a predictable political divide), and has no official status (though there are proposals to give it one).  In a lot of areas of UK government, the two languages that material must be made available in are English and Welsh.   TSP 22:42, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

text: Should it be noted that these are the only languages the monarch is currently styled in? 67.176.160.47 (talk) 04:23, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Welsh 

message: "...Defender of the Earth."  Shouldn't that be faith?68.175.19.252 20:54, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Defender of... 

message: This article is incomplete concerning its Scottish section. The Scottish monarchs go back before 1603 (like the English monarchs). Would somebody please correct this. GoodDay (talk) 17:09, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: And the English ones go back to before 1066 as well. The whole thing is just incomplete. But please don't let them add the Pictish ones as well! TharkunColl (talk) 17:12, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Incomplete

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BetacommandBot (talk) 04:46, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:76-834.jpg

message: I have suggested merging Most Excellent Majesty, Most Gracious Majesty and Britannic Majesty to this article simply because those articles are little more than stubs and will always be subsets of content on this page. I suggest creating a section with the forms of Majesty used by the British sovereign and the context under which they are used rather than having three little articles on the very closely related subjects. Charles 22:01, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems perfectly reasonable to me. They are all variants of Majesty.--Gazzster (talk) 13:15, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

text: Perhaps also add the information to Majesty? DBD 13:35, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Howabout giving these articles a chance to expand? GoodDay (talk) 14:18, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: How could they expand, buddy?--Gazzster (talk) 14:21, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

text: Sounds good to me, DBD. A template at the section on British variants of Majesty can notify the reader to also see Style of the British Sovereign. GoodDay, some article will never expand... We don't always have to be so inclusionist with individual articles for absolutely everything. Charles 16:03, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

text: Ya mean there's nothing more to put in them? GoodDay (talk) 15:55, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I admit I dont know much about them, but how big could they get? Beyond stating what the style is, a bit of history and the circumstances in which they are used, what else?--Gazzster (talk) 16:02, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

text: It appears merge is the preferred option. Best I go with the majority. GoodDay (talk) 16:14, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

text: The information is now at Majesty#The United Kingdom (also, if anyone thinks they can clean it up a little, please do :) ). I can work on adding it to this page as well but I have a lunch meeting to go to shortly. Cheers! Charles 16:46, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Good job.--Gazzster (talk) 16:48, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal 

message: :"Majesty", however, was not used exclusively; it arbitrarily alternated with both "Highness" and "Grace", even in official documents. For example, one legal judgment issued by Henry VIII uses all three indiscriminately; Article 15 begins with "the Kinges Highness hath ordered," Article 16 with "the Kinges Majestie" and Article 17 with "the Kinges Grace."
:-Highness, Grace and Majesty
I would be interested in a citation for this one legal judgement, not because I doubt it (I don't really), not so much that I think it should be there (it should, of course), but that I'd like to read it.
-SM
:I don't think what's said in the article is correct. My understanding is that the Emperor had been using the style Majesty for some centuries before the kings of England & France adopted it. Peter jackson (talk) 15:43, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Highess, Grace, Majesty 

message: Have you not left out the &c or etc. after "beyond the Seas" that came into use after the 1763 Treaty of Paris?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cphilips (talk • contribs) 13:19, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  France 

message: Didn't the promotion of Hanover to a Kingdom come some time after the Act of Union 1801? —Tamfang (talk) 03:40, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Congress of Vienna, wasn't it?--Gazzster (talk) 06:22, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The Electorates were abolished along with the Holy Roman Empire, so the Elector of Hanover was made a King instead.--Gazzster (talk) 06:24, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ha(n)nover 

message: How come there is only the Welsh translation of the full styles of Elizabeth II?  Someone should include the Irish and Scottish version of it.--Queen Elizabeth II's Little Spy (talk) 21:14, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Irish and Scottish  

message: Wasn't Berwick-upon-Tweed sometimes mentioned separately?  I seem to remember something about Elizabeth I being Queen of England and Berwick-upon-Tweed.  See also Wales and Berwick Act 1746 etc. AnonMoos (talk) 19:41, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Berwick-on-Tweed

message: "George III used the opportunity to drop both the reference to France and "etc." from the style."
Why would he want to do that? 81.68.255.36 (talk) 12:37, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Might be something to do with the Napoleonic Wars. --Old Moonraker (talk) 12:50, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: More specifically, it became awkward for the British king to claim to be king of France while at the same time insisting that the exiled Bourbon pretender was the legitimate king of France.  Of course, the Stuart pretenders managed to pull of the trick of claiming to be the king of France while at the same time living as guests of the actual kings of France. --Jfruh (talk) 17:21, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  King of France 

message: I think the article should make it clear that the legislation that actually confers these titles on the Monarch confers these titles only in the English and Lating languages. At the moment it is really misleading. NelsonSudan (talk) 20:23, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Welsh etc 

message: I saw the text of the Treaty of Paris (1783) and it uses a different style for George III:
"George the third, by the grace of God, king of Great Britain, France and Ireland, defender of the faith, Duke of Brunswick and Lunenburgh, Arch-treasurer and Prince-Elector of the holy Roman Empire, &c."  Hot Stop talk-contribs 04:03, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Different style for George III? 

message: There is contradiction in text and in table about beginning of use titles "King of England, Duke of Normandy, Duke of Aquitaine and Count of Anjou" instead of "King of English, Duke of the Normans, Duke of the Aquitanians and Count of the Angevins"... 1154 or 1199?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.87.141.150 (talk) 14:16, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Henry II or John 

message: This is Modern English, but Matilda (if somehow she'd learned English) would have used a form of very early Middle English.  Wouldn't it rather have been in Latin or Anglo-Norman?  129.79.203.172 (talk) 15:41, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lady of the English, Queen of England and Duke of Normans 

message: Attributed to Mary and Philip:
: By the grace of God, King and Queen of England and France, Naples, Jerusalem, Chile and Ireland, Defenders of the Faith, Princes of Spain and Sicily, Archdukes of Austria, Dukes of Milan, Burgundy, and Brabant, Count and Countess of Habsburg, Flanders, and Tyrol
Chile was added 25 Mar 2011 (by someone with only one other edit) with this summary: Philip was made King of Chile before his marrige so he would have an equal title, it was included in there style.  Hm.  It's not mentioned in Philip's own article.  Was the name 'Chile' known in Spain by then? —Tamfang (talk) 08:30, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It's unsourced and extremely dubious. I'm removing it. Surtsicna (talk) 08:39, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chile? 

message: This article is inaccurate. From as early as 1603, King James VI / I customarily styled himself "King of Great Britain", rather than "King of England, Scotland, etc.", and the other Stuart monarchas (Charles I, Charles II, James II) followed suit.
True, the parliaments of England and Scotland were not yet united, but the Stuart kings RULED England and Scotland as a single entity, Great Britain. Paintings of Charles I, for example, are labeled "Carolus Rex Magnae Britanniae".   JD — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.76.96.156 (talk • contribs) 17:25, 25 September 2014‎ (UTC)
: You would need to find a reference to a published reliable source for such a change. --David Biddulph (talk) 17:41, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stewart kings styled themselves "King of Great Britain". 

message: There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:List of titles and honours of the British Monarch which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RMCD bot 07:47, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Has been moved. Errantios (talk) 01:13, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move discussion in progress 

message: This needs updating to Rex, etc. 185.48.63.1 (talk) 18:54, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Been done. Errantios (talk) 14:21, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Latin translation 

message: Unless I am mistaken, Charles III's ascension to the throne has not changed the Royal title beyond the gender and the top of "List of changes to the royal style" states that "Changes that only take into account the gender of the sovereign (such as replacing "King" with "Queen") are not indicated". 2A00:23C5:A180:2901:2CD4:CEF7:1AEE:B6F6 (talk) 19:23, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: You are correct: the Accession Proclamation of 2022 makes no other change. Errantios (talk) 22:30, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Title Change, or a lack thereof 

message: Checking against the Gazette issues all the British titles from 1901 on, I've corrected all "By" to "by" and removed all commas after "God".  I've then done the same for earlier British titles, assuming that they were in the same formbut subject to re-correction from their own sources.
Similar changes may be appropriate in the other lists. Happy to discuss: my French is very good and my Latin possibly adequate. Errantios (talk) 14:05, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "By/by" and "God," 

message: The redirect His Majesty The King has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached.  Estar8806 (talk) 22:47, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Resolved: consensus on retargeting. Errantios (talk) 23:45, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  "[[:His Majesty The King]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: The redirect Her Majesty The Queen has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached.  Estar8806 (talk) 22:48, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Resolved: consensus on retargeting. Errantios (talk) 23:46, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  "[[:Her Majesty The Queen]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: The redirect Her Majesty the Queen has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached.  estar8806 (talk) ★ 22:25, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Resolved: consensus on retargeting. Errantios (talk) 23:47, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  "[[:Her Majesty the Queen]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: the titles of "english monarch" start at 1066 despite england uniting in 927, shouldn't the title of King Aethelstan be there since he was first to create the kingdom of england out of Wessex? 84.71.92.188 (talk) 14:05, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  post 927 england is missing?