Talk:Narmer Palette

message: On a different, hopefully less contentious matter, any thoughts on where we are with the state of this article? It's currently set at "Start Class", but I don't think the article has been reviewed by anyone for a while, and it is clearly a lot more than a stub. 
There's clearly still work that needs to be done on it (such as a full description of the obverse/reverse sides, along with interpretations and accompanying references) but after that I think it might be up for a B-class article review submission. Thoughts? Captmondo (talk) 17:41, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Article class?

message: Note: Specifical references are under each object page bibliography
*G. Steindorff, Eine neu Art Agyptischer Kunst ... Aegyptiaca FS Ebers (1897) p. 121-41
*J.E. Quibell, Hierakonpolis. Part I (1900)
*F. Legge: P.S.B.A. n. 22 (1900) p. 125-39, 270-1; [P.S.B.A. n. 26 (1904) p. 262-3; n. 28 (1906) p. 87]; n. 31 (1909) p. 204-211, 297-310
*J.E. Quibell, F.W. Green, Hierakonpolis. Part II (1902)
*J. Capart: Les debuts de l'art en Egypte (1904)
*G. Benedite: Monuments et mémoires A.I.B.L. 10 (=Mon. Piot. 10, 1904) p.105-22
*J. Capart: Les Palettes en schiste de l'Egypte primitive, Rev. Quest. Scient. 13, 1908 (April), 536-557
*T.E. Peet: The Art of Predynastic Period, J.E.A. 2 (1915) p. 88-94 
*F. Petrie: Ancient Egypt (1917)
*F. Petrie: Prehistoric Egypt (1920)
*F. Petrie: Prehistoric Egypt. Corpus of Prehistoric pottery and palettes (1921) 
*A. Scharff: Die Altertumer der Vor- und Fruhzeit Aegyptens (1929, 1931)
*H. Kantor: The Final Phase of Predynastic culture - Gerzean or Semainean ? J.N.E.S. 3 (1944) p. 110-136
*H. Wild: Choix d'objects pré-pharaoniques appartenent à des collections de Suisse, B.I.F.A.O. 47 (1948) p. 1-58 (p. 39-47, pl. IIa, IIb, IIe)
*W.S. Smith: A History of Egyptian Sculpture and Painting in the Old Kingdom (1949) 
*S. Schott: Hieroglyphen: Untersuchungen zum Ursprung der Schrift (1950)
*J. Vandier: Manuel d' Archaeologie Egyptienne v. I, tome 1, 2 (1952) p. 373 ff., 570 ff.
*F. Petrie: Ceremonial Slate Palettes ... H. Petrie - M. Murray (eds.), (1953)
*H.G. Fischer: A Fragment of Late Predynastic Egyptian Relief from the Eastern Delta Artibus Asiae 21, 1958, p. 64-88
*E. Baumgartel, The Cultures of Prehistoric Egypt (1955, 1960) 2 v.
*R. Weill: Recherches sur la Ire Dynastie ... B.d.E. 38, 1/2 (1961) esp. vol. 1, p. 172 ff and vol.2, p. 169-274
*H. Asselberghs: Chaos en Beheersing: Documenten uit aeneolitisch Egypte (1961) 
*W. Kaiser: Einige Bemerkungen zur agyptischen Fruhzeit. III. Die Reichseinigung, Z.A.S. 91. 1964/ 86-125, fig.6
*R.T. Ridley: The Unification as Seen Through a Study of the Major Knife-Handles, Palettes, Maceheads (1973)
*R.M. Boehmer: Orientalische Einflüsse auf verzierten Messergriffen aus dem prädynastischen Ägypten, Arch. Mitteil. Iran, 7, 1974, 15-40
*R. Tefnin: Image et histoire. Reflections sur l' usage documentaire de l' image egyptienne C.d.E. 54. 1979, 118-44
*A.J. Spencer: Early Dynastic Objects. Catalogue of Egyptian Antiquities in the British Museum (1980)
*W. Westendorf: Paletten, Schmink-, in: LÄ IV, 1982, 654-656
*W. Needler: Predynastic and Archaic Objects in the Brooklyn Museum (1984) p. 319-334
*E. Finkenstaedt: Violence and Kingship: The Evidence of the Palettes, Z.A.S. 111. 1984/ 107-10 
*P. F. Houlian, S.M. Goodman: The Birds of Ancient Egypt, 1986
*J. Monnet Saleh: Documents Concernant l'Unification de l' Egypte I. SD 40-Scorpion, B.I.F.A.O. 86. 1986, 227-38 
*B. Teissier: Glyptic evidence for a connection between Iran, Syro-Palestine and Egypt in the fourth and third millenia, IRAN 25, 1987, 27-53
*B. Williams: Decorated pottery and the art of Naqada III (1988)
*J. Boessneck, Die Tierwelt des Alten Ägypten (1988)
*J. Baines: Communication and Display: The integration of Early Egyptian Art and Writing, Antiquity 63. 1989
*K. Cialowicz: Les palettes égyptiennes aux motifs zoomorphes et sans decorations, 1991 (Studies in Ancient Art and Civilization 3)
*K. Cialowicz: Problems de l' interpretation du relief predyn... Motif du palmier et des girafes S.A.A.C. 4, 1992, 7-18
*K. Cialowicz: La composition des scenes avec des animaux sur les palettes... S.A.A.C. 5, 1992 p. 7-18
*W. Davis: Masking the Blow. The Scene of Representation in Late Prehistoric Egyptian Art (1992)
*A.R. Schulman: Narmer and the Unification: A revisionist view, B.E.S. 11. 1992, 79-94
*E. Gady: Les ivoires et palettes ornés de l'époque nagadienne, Sorbonne, Paris (1992)
*B. Midant-Reynes: Prehistoire de l' Egypte des premiers hommes aux premiers pharaohs (1992) p. 183, 223-229
*J. Vercoutter: L'Egypte et la Vallée du Nil. Tome 1 (1992) p. 180-199
*J. Vercoutter: Le role des artisans dans la naissance de la civilisation égyptienne, CdE 68, 1993, p. 70-83 (esp. p. 75-76)
*J. Crowfoot Payne: Catalogue of the Predynastic Egyptian Collection in the Ashmolean Museum, Oxford (1993)
*W. Davis: Narrativity and the Narmer Palette, in: P.J. Holliday (ed.) Narrative and Event in Ancient Art, 1993, 21(?)-54
*J. Baines: Symbolic Roles of Canine Figures on Early Monuments, Archéo-Nil 3, 1993, 57-74
*J. Baines: Origins of Egyptian Kingship' in D. O' Connor - D.P. Silverman ed. 'Ancient Egyptian Kingship' (1995)
*Stan Hendrickx: Analytical Bibliography of the Prehistory and the Early Dynastic Period of Egypt' 1995 p. 299-00
*Karla Kroeper: Minshat Abu Omar -Burials with Palettes, in: J. Spencer ed. Aspects of Early Egypt, 1996 p.70-92 
*C. Regner: Schminkpaletten. Bonner Sammlung von Aegyptiaca 2, 1996
*D. J. Osborn /J. Osbornova: The Mammals of Ancient Egypt, 1998 
Les Canidae de la Prehistoire a la Iere Dynastie en Egypte et en Nubie (J.O. Gransard-Desmond) Memoire de Maitrise, Paris 1999 (Corpus 65-77, 96, 99)
*S.L. Gosline: Palettes as Early Evidence of Egyptian Writing, GM 169. 1999, 65-72
*M. Etienne, À propos des représentations d'enceintes crénelées sur les palettes de l'époque de Nagada III, Archéo-Nil 9, 1999, 149-163
*S. Hendrickx: Autruches et flamants- les oiseaux représentés sur la céramique prédynastique ... Decorated, CCdE 1/1, 2000/ 21-52 
*K. Cialowicz: La naissance d' un royaume. L' Egypte dès période prédynastique à la fin de la Ire dynastie, 2001 (p. 176-196)
*S. Hendrickx: Bovines in Egyptian Predynastic and Early Dynastic Iconography, in: F. Hassan (ed.), Drought, Food ..., 2002, 275-318
*J.O. Gransard-Desmond: Histoire du chien en Egypte, CCdE 3/4, 2002, 51-74 
*E.C. Köhler: History or Ideology? New Relations on the Narmer Palette and the Nature of Foreign Relations in Pre- and Early Dynastic Egypt, in: E.C.M. van den Brink - T.E. Levy (eds.), Egypt and the Levant... 2002, (Chapter 31) 499-513. 
*J. Kahl, with contributions of M. Bretschneider and B. Kneisler: Fruhagyptisches Worterbuch, vol. 1, Harrassowitz, 2002
*D. O'Connor: Context, Function and Program: Understanding Ceremonial Slate Palettes. JARCE 39, 2002, 5-25
*F. Raffaele: Dynasty 0, in: S. Bickel - A. Loprieno (eds.), Basel Egyptology Prize 1, Aegyptiaca Helvetica 17, 2003, 99-141
*B. Midant-Reynes, Aux origines de l'Egypte, 2003, 336ff., 347ff.
*L.D. Morenz, Bild-Buchstaben und symbolische Zeichen. Die Herausbildung der Schrift in der hohen Kultur Altägyptens, Fribourg/Göttingen, 2004
*W. Westendorf, Die frühzeitliche Prunkpaletten - Die Deutung ihrer kosmischen Darstellungen und das Weiterleben der Motive in geschichtlicher Zeit, in: Moers, Behlmer,          Demuss, Widmaier (eds.), jn.t dr.w Festschrift für Friedrich Junge, Bd. II, Göttingen, p. 713-727
*S. Hendrickx, The dog, the Lycaon pictus and order over chaos in Predynastic Egypt, in: Kroeper et al., (eds.), Archaeology of Early Northeastern Africa, 2006, 723-749
*A. Stevenson, The material significance of Predynastic and Early Dynastic palettes, in: Mairs, Stevenson (eds.), Current research in Egyptology 2005. Oxford, 2007, 148-162
*N. Baudel, Tegumentary paint and cosmetic palettes in Predynastic Egypt. Impact of those artefacts on the birth of the monarchy, in: Midant Reynes et al. (eds.), Egypt at ..., i.p. 
*S. Hendrickx, Visual representation and State development in Egypt, in press, 2008 ...
*S. Hendrickx - M. Eyckerman, Decorated rhomboidal palettes from Predynastic Egypt in the Royal Museums for Art and History at Brussels, in prep., 2008
Let me know if you would include any of these in the further reading list Rktect (talk)
:Wow, that's certainly exhaustive, but it would be overkill to include even a third of the number of references given above (I'm not sure how "The Mammals of Ancient Egypt" would easily fit in, for example. ;-) 
:I think good primary sources of material on the discovery (such as those from Quibbel, Green and Petrie) would be good ones to add, along with respected academic interpreters of the meaning/symbology of the palette (David, Kohler, Gosline and Stevenson are likely additions here). The English Wikipedia also prefers listings of publications in English, so that would remove the German and French entries (unless they are considered a primary source, which I don't believe they are). Start from there. Cheers! Captmondo (talk) 19:03, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Further Reading

message: We might keep Peet, Ridley, also and how could you not have Raffaele with Loprino
*Quibell J.E., Hierakonpolis. Part I (1900)
*Quibell J.E., F.W. Green, Hierakonpolis. Part II (1902)
*Peet T.E., The Art of Predynastic Period, J.E.A. 2 (1915) p. 88-94 
*Petrie F., Ancient Egypt (1917)
*Petrie F.,  Prehistoric Egypt (1920)
*Petrie F.,  Prehistoric Egypt. Corpus of Prehistoric pottery and palettes (1921)
*Petrie F.,  Ceremonial Slate Palettes ... H. Petrie - M. Murray (eds.), (1953)
*KöhlerE.C., History or Ideology? New Relations on the Narmer Palette and the Nature of Foreign Relations in Pre- and Early Dynastic Egypt, in: E.C.M. van den Brink - T.E. Levy (eds.), Egypt and the Levant... 2002, (Chapter 31) 499-513. 
*Ridley R.T., The Unification as Seen Through a Study of the Major Knife-Handles, Palettes, Maceheads (1973)
*Gosline S.L., Palettes as Early Evidence of Egyptian Writing, GM 169. 1999, 65-72
*Davis W., Narrativity and the Narmer Palette, in: P.J. Holliday (ed.) Narrative and Event in Ancient Art, 1993, 21(?)-54
*Stevenson A., The material significance of Predynastic and Early Dynastic palettes, in: Mairs, Stevenson (eds.), Current research in Egyptology 2005. Oxford, 2007, 148-162
*Raffaele F., Dynasty 0, in: S. Bickel - A. Loprieno (eds.), Basel Egyptology Prize 1, Aegyptiaca Helvetica 17, 2003, 99-141
*Wilkinson, Toby A.H. "What a king is this: Narmer and the concept of the ruler" Journal of Egyptian Archaeology 2000, vol. 86, pp. 23-32
Rktect (talk) 19:30, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: first edit of Further Reading

message: The so-called "Sarpopods" are two, male, wrestling, giraffes.  Giraffes wrestle by banging their necks together, somewhat similar to what ancient Sauropod dinosaurs are suspected to have done (e.g. BBC Walking w/ Dinosaurs (DVD)). Perhaps the image symbolizes "Struggle", "Strife", "Contention", or some such.  Please see: 
http://www.dongettyphoto.com/kenya/giraffesfighting.html
Somewhat similarly, the second standard, in front of Narmer, is a Jackal (not a "dog").  The Jackal was a frequent totem image, for example, of Anubis, the mythic son of Osiris, father of Horus, the totem falcon god of Narmer's Hierakonpolis.  Thus, Narmer led, as it were, "two divisions" of "Hawk Clan" warriors from Hierakonpolis ("Hawk City"), with "one division" of "Jackal Clan" warriors, from some closely allied city-state, of the "Osiris-Horus-Anubis" faction.  According to [| this site], the Falcon symbolized the 2nd Nome (Upper Egypt), while the Jackal symbolized the 11th, and 17th, Nomes (Middle Egypt).  This is completely consistent, w/ King Narmer leading the forces of united Upper & Middle Egypt, against opponents in Lower Egypt.
Likewise, the defeated region was — assuming the constancy of the hieroglyphic imagery — the 7th Mereotis Nome of Lower Egypt:
http://www.ancient-egypt.org/index.html
According to Delia Pemberton's "Illustrated Atlas of Ancient Egypt" (British Museum Press), page 19, that 7th Nome was, indeed, symbolized by a boat plus harpoon, almost precisely as pictured in the palette.  AND, the neighboring 3rd Lower Egyptian Nome (to the immediate southwest of said 7th nome), was symbolized by a Falcon sign.  THEREFORE, the Narmer Palette unambiguously depicts King Narmer's victory, over the combined forces, of the 3rd & 7th Nomes of Lower Egypt.  These two Nomes, on the extreme northwest of the Delta, could, quite plausibly, have been the last hold-outs against Egyptian Unification, existing as they did, upon the peripheral border-lands of Lower Egypt.  
Indeed, too, the names of the  Nomes 3 & 7 were both "A-ment", meaning "West Harpoon" (explaining the presence of the harpoon upon the palette).  The three cities shown in the Narmer Palette were, thus, probably Imu (7th), and Hermopolis Parva & Metelis (3rd).
According to [| this site], the ancient name of Imu was "Hwt-Ihyt", meaning "Estate of the Cattle".  According to [| this site], the ancient capitol of the 3rd Nome was "Ni-Ent-Hapi" (Apis, where was worshiped the goddess Senti), and that of the 7th was "Sonti-Nofer" (where was worshipped the god He, "Lord of the West").  Note the similarity of the goddess "Senti", worshiped in Nome 3, w/ "Sonti", the capitol of Nome 7.  This seemingly suggests some sort of association.—Preceding unsigned comment added by  (talk • contribs) 
According to Ian Shaw, in (Shire Egyptology)"Egyptian Warfare & Weapons" pg. 8, the Battlefield Palette, which dates to the early Naqada III period (~3300 BC), depicts the defeat of Libyan invaders.  And, as shown above, a few generations afterwards, Narmer defeated Nomes 3 & 7, in Lower Egypt, upon the border of Libya.  This seemingly suggests some sort of association, between Nomes 3 & 7, and Libyans, to whom they surely were related, and upon whom they may have relied, for mercenary military service, against the burgeoning power of the "Horus Alliance" of Upper Egypt.
To me the scene represents the first occurence of the Sema-Tawy.Sherlockh22 (talk) 10:53, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Sarpopods

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I wonder if anyone has noticed that there is no Uraeus on the crowns? Sherlockh22 (talk) 12:38, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: it's a later tradition. You won't see uraei on the front of any pharaoh before the mid-Old Kingdom, I believe. Khruner (talk) 19:31, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  No Uraeus 

message: The sculptors of the Palette were very skilled and went into minute detail. Much more detail than would be neccessary to tell the story of Narmer. Therefore any detail the sculptors have put in must have some importance.Bearing this in mind I looked at Narmers ears, or more specifically his Earrings.
The sculptors can easily carve ears as all the people on the palette have the same ears, all except Narmer, his Son/sandal bearer, and Narmers Vizier/wife.Sherlockh22 (talk) 09:38, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Earrings. 

message: It doesn't look like a lion's tail: a lion's tail has a tuft on the end. Besides, in the Narmer article, at the end of the section "Name", it's described as a bull's tail, by Günter Dreyer it seems.  Card Zero  (talk) 22:08, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lion's tail or bull's tail?