Wikipedia talk:Staying cool when the editing gets hot

message: Hello everyone. I am from Venezuela so I don`t know if I'll be well received here. I was editing slightly some anime articles so they could have some more information. But it seems that I was involved in some edit war without noticing it. For example, I added information about broadcast details of Monkey Typhoon (to be exact, about its premiere in L.A. countries) but that was just erased. Then, when I read the Talk/Discussion about the anime Kimagure Orange Road, someone said I've removed the information about other languages as this will only snowball and is not important for the English Wikipedia. If people want to learn about the show in other languages, they can click on the interwiki links (as that's what they are for). Which is, then, the case of considering Wikipedia as an encyclopedia if its members are holding it as a mere local Internet magazine? Shouldn't the information be universal? I did no longer make edits in the articles of this Wikipedia because it's calling me vandal (is there any other reason for my contribution deletions?), and I'm trying not to lose my calm. It's boring to make article edits in just one version of Wikipedia (Spanish, in my case), so I want to help in other languages
PS: Sorry if my English script is not perfect.200.71.186.242 00:02, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deletions 

message: I'm a newbie in need of advice. After happily working on some articles about physics and other noncontroversial subjects, I did some editing on these articles: astrology,  horoscope, and Walter Mercado (an astrologer). Now I seem to be getting into "edit wars." Any suggestions on how to handle this? I felt that the original articles were completely credulous about astrology, and lacked any pretense of a neutral point of view. The Walter Mercado article is particularly goofy; if you look at its history, it started out with an anonymous user sticking in a fluffy, adulatory fan piece. Then someone edited it to try to restore a neutal point of view. Then a user came along and changed it back, and then I edited it again. How long does this go on? -- User:Bcrowell
:Well, it depends on the dispute in question. I looked at astrology and Walter Mercado. For the latter, it seems you are the only person who has edited it since November, so there's no conflict there. Generally, when two Wikipedians disagree on edits or article content, they take it to the discussion page of the article in question, which I see you've done. I usually find it helpful to stop editing until some sort of agreement is reached in discussion; this tends to keep the other party from getting defensive and avoids edit wars. The vast majority of Wikipedians are reasonable people, and agreements are often reached quickly, as longas both parties recognize that they are working on the article in good faith. Oh, and welcome to Wikipedia! We're glad to have you here. -- Stephen Gilbert 00:48 Dec 20, 2002 (UTC)
::Well, it's pretty discouraging if you look at the history of how the zodiac and Walter Mercado articles have been edited. People who don't believe in astrology have repeatedly tried to introduce a neutral point of view, but over and over again the true believers have deleted their text and reverted to a completely credulous, one-sided view. -- User:Bcrowell
::I think we're making some progress now, because some new people have gotten involved in working on the articles, and it's no longer just a back-and-forth between me and User:Eclecticology. Right now, I think it would be helpful if someone without an agenda could go over some of the most controversial articles such as horoscope and just edit them for style, so they don't read so much like "one person says this, and another person says this." -- User:Bcrowell
:::In my own defense, I know nothing about Mercado so I have said nothing there at all.  User:Bcrowell can apply whatever POV material he wants, and I won't interfere with it.  In the other articles he has insistead on his POV that astrology is pseudoscience should dominate all ithers, and insists on a one-sided idiosyncratic interpretation of scientific method.  He fails to understand that his true believer syndrome can afflict the orthodox scientific view just as much as its opponents.  There are dogmatic Points of View on both sides of that divide, and I feel quite content to revert that kind of bullshit from either side. Eclecticology 02:38 Dec 22, 2002 (UTC)
I have to say I originally wrote the Walter Mercado article. Yes, I admire the man, because he is a legend of Puerto Rico and I did not know how to write back then because it was one of my very first articles. But in no way does it look like a fan page in my opinion. I am not personally a fan of his although I do admire him for the aforementioned reason. Tell me, if I attempted to make it look like a fan page would I have talked about his rumored (keep in mind I said rumored, Im not saying he is) homosexuality??
I like the page the way it is now. It looks less point of view and more like an encyclopedia article. As with all other articles I began to write, I will keep the page updated with any new information I get and I hope all over wiki-collaborators do the same.
Thanks and God bless you
Sincerely yours;
Antonio I want Pink!! Martin
- - - -
By the way, is the use of a first-person sentence ("I think this is the type of users we don't really want on Wikipedia, and a few have been.") deliberate and ironic?  If not, could this sentence itself be rephrased to NPOV?
___
If you are going to talk about "removing" people, lets get rid of this "anyone including you can edit an article now. Because to define "anyone" and then get really specific and say "you" but then employ some technical/legal device and perhaps force to exclude an individual from the category of you could very well provoke someone in a way we don't want to see.  If you don't mean anyone, don't say it.
It worries me that this very important subject matter is spread across at least 3 articles. Wikipedia:Civility, Wikipedia:Wikiquette and Wikipedia:Staying cool when the editing gets hot. I don't see this as situation as necessarily bad or redundant in a functional sense. That is, I think it's valuable to have 3 kinds of pages: 1) a succinct cheat-sheet that we can point people to from the Welcome page or in our personal greetings to new users, which I think is the purpose the Wikiquette page serves now. 2) A good cheat sheet that mediators could provide a link to when a talk page discussion heats up, which I think the "Staying cool" page is meant to be. 3) A deeper and more substantiated discussion of civility to which we might direct the philosophically or ideologically uncivil ("Duh, I know how to be polite, but this place is a jungle and so it's jungle rules that I'm going to go by") or anybody who's interested. I think that's what's going on with the "Civility" page. My worry is that with 3 places for people to contribute ideas on Civility, some pages are liable to miss out on some valuable ideas, and our lean-mean cheat sheets about how to be nice will become bloated tomes that just turn away the cranky and make them crankier. To guard against this, I suggest we formally declare these pages a "series" or group of pages, which each acknowledge each other in some prominent and official-looking way. That way, if someone stumbles on what is not quite the right page for their idea or their need, they will know immediately where to go, and likewise would-be mediators will learn that they have a choice of where to point their hypothetical mediatees, and so be able pick the most suitable one. Also if these pages are more prominently connected to one another, someone with a good idea for one of them will be led to consider whether it's a good one for any of the others, and add it, either beefing it up or trimming it down, as appropriate to the page for which the idea is destined. What do people think? 168... 17:35, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help 

message: (from WP:RM)
===Wikipedia:Staying cool when the editing gets hot → Wikipedia:Stay cool.===
* Neutrality (hopefully!) 19:26, Oct 24, 2004 (UTC)
** Disagree for ambiguity reasons. Similar to "Be bold" above. This is an advice page about editing, not about regulating your body temperature.  New users and visitors will get the right context from the current article title. All appropriate redirects are already in place, so finding the article (or citing it) is no problem. -- Netoholic @ 17:40, 2004 Oct 27 (UTC)
**The original title (staying cool when the editing gets hot) makes more sense, and also sounds more like an instruction page than an order. Angela. 03:27, Oct 30, 2004 (UTC)
** Disagree per above. Random the Scrambled 11:43, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Move request

message: * Neutrality (hopefully!) 19:26, Oct 24, 2004 (UTC)
** Disagree for ambiguity reasons. Similar to "Be bold" above. This is an advice page about editing, not about regulating your body temperature.  New users and visitors will get the right context from the current article title. All appropriate redirects are already in place, so finding the article (or citing it) is no problem. -- Netoholic @ 17:40, 2004 Oct 27 (UTC)
**The original title (staying cool when the editing gets hot) makes more sense, and also sounds more like an instruction page than an order. Angela. 03:27, Oct 30, 2004 (UTC)
** Disagree per above. Random the Scrambled 11:43, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Wikipedia:Staying cool when the editing gets hot]] &rarr; [[Wikipedia:Stay cool]].

message: These seem (from a cursory look) to be about the same topic.  I think they should be merged;  any objections? JesseW 12:55, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Not from me. Random the Scrambled 11:43, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge with [[Wikipedia:Writers rules of engagement]]? 

message: While material contributed to the article space is open for editing by any person, postings to the Talk space are the signed words of specific editors. It is not OK to alter someone else's words and leave their signature on them, since doing so makes it seem that the person wrote something different from what they actually wrote.
Altering someone else's signed words is forgery and misrepresentation. Even if you feel that someone else's words are objectionable, this does not convey to you the right to make it seem that they said something different from what they actually said.
See also Wikipedia talk:Civility#Defacing others' talk comments considered harmful.
--FOo 22:19, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: What he said. I've removed this text:
# Edit their words to remove the insulting part—rephrase it as a simple statement of their beliefs, for example. Then answer the rephrased comment. If the insult is completely content-free, delete it.
From the article, as it goes directly against rather important parts of our code of conduct; the last time I looked, changing others' comments was considered a significant offense. -- Kizor 12:09, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please do not recommend altering others' talk comments 

message: Since it is not official policy, I have requested that SCEGH be merged into Wikipedia:Words of wisdom.  →Iñgōlemo← talk 03:42, 2005 May 24 (UTC)
:I'm not sure I understand the reason. There are many pages that are not policy in the Wikipedia: namespace. — Saxifrage ✎ 10:00, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think a link should be provided, but merge? No. Random the Scrambled 11:48, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge 

message: It seems awfully out of place compared to other policy pages, despite containing some useful information. NEMT 16:21, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There are a lot of odd names in the Wikipedia namespace. For example, consider the target of WP:NFT. I actually rather like the long, descriptive names of some of these, especially since the shortcut redirects mitigate their unweildiness. — Saxifrage ✎ 23:38, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Can we rename or merge this page?

message: Hello, may I murge the 2 pages together? General Eisenhower 00:04, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What two pages? — Saxifrage ✎ 00:15, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  May I? 

message: This is a guideline re-stated as an essay. I can not see the point. I merged the text into Wikipedia:Etiquette, so given that is a "guideline" and this is an "essay", you should check that article to see I've stuffed up any further! You might also notice that article repeats almost word for word much of the content of this article, and both articles have the same message.
As for the merge not having support, 4 sections of the talk page call for a merge with no real objections (though I chose Wikipedia:Etiquette myself as there seem to be a number of pages essentially saying the same thing, and that was the most official / fully developed version). I notice you have not objected to the calls for a merge!
:I have objected three times. Random people doing drive-by calls for mergers (as I must assume they were doing as none ever answered my questions) don't carry any weight. — Saxifrage ✎ 09:20, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No angry mastodons is a great essay, yes. This one is a bit rougher, but the fact that it's linked from so many places is significant. The first edits are in 2002, giving this page a lot of history and currency. Perhaps it's become redundant, but I think a merger should be done with due process and without any rush so that people who are attached to this page can weigh in or refine it. — Saxifrage ✎ 09:20, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nitpicking 

message: I support this merger, as long as the cucumber pictures as included. You've just got to love those pictures, absolutely hilarious
GreatKing 23:09, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I love those pictures too it's so cool--2hot4u2handle 19:40, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No. It makes the article lose all credibility and quite frankly I've lost alot of respect for this site. --Tykell 03:28, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The wikipedia policy pages all have a lighter tone, since they deal with the community instead of actual information --Froth 05:53, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Support the merge 

message: This is the worst possible idea ever.  This is an essay.  Wikipedia:Etiquette is a policy.  Etiquette's page is completely serious, and is not an essay.  Why would we get rid of that? This idea is preposterous. --Rory096 19:06, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That sums up my position better than I've been able to so far. — Saxifrage ✎ 23:38, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge 

message: The picture on this page makes no sense. Why do you want to stay cool as a cucumber, let alone a cucumber with secondary-sex characteristics? I suggest a diffrent image, something that gets the point across a bit more?  idk - 68.228.33.74 06:12, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Keep cool you two. It's an essay, it's not anything official. The silly images are fine in an essay. — Saxifrage ✎ 04:42, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Adding an actual reason to remove one of the pictures, the second picture seems really unneeded. It doesn't add anything to the page, especially right under another picture that says nearly the same thing. It also seems like just an attempt to have both genders represented. --Machchunk | make some noise at me 23:11, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I searched, but alas, could not find any images of hermaphrodite cucumbers. I'm open to suggestions. -- weirdoactor t|c -- 23:44, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Both genders of human, I mean. --Machchunk | make some noise at me 00:37, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But...the images in question are of cucumbers, not humans, correct? -- weirdoactor t|c -- 01:48, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. Anthropomorphic cucumbers. Your point? --Machchunk | make some noise at me 04:29, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Correct! I could not find any images of anthropomorphic hermaphrodite cucumbers. Do you have any sources for such images? -- weirdoactor t|c -- 12:07, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's just it though. I'm not saying we need anthropomorphic hermaphrodite cucumbers. I'm saying the male image is not needed, and I just added the fact that it seemed like an attempt not to seem sexist in terms of human genders as another reason to take one off. Or at least move the male picture under "Dealing with insults" and to the left. Am I making this clear enough? Geez. --Machchunk | make some noise at me 16:26, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What you are saying makes perfect sense; I was just being silly. Moving the picture is a good idea. Is anyone against such a move? If not, let's do it! PICTURE MOVING! YES! -- weirdoactor t|c -- 18:21, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I agree. This might be one of the most important essays on Wikipedia (IMHO :-D)) and the pictures really are painfully silly. I'll just remove them from the article. Feel free to re-add them if you think I was too bold. — Mütze 19:04, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture 

message: I suggest we remove this sentence, or at least reword to it to make it less offensive. Why can't we have "don't be a jerk" instead? StaticElectric 07:02, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Because "don't be a jerk" is much less effective than "don't be a dick".  Additionally, I'm sorry you find it offensive, however Wikipedia is not censored.  Even more so, I suggest your read this essay as it call attention in the discussion page on why such language is often the best in which to make a point. 68.143.88.2 17:36, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Static Electric. Computerman35 (talk) 21:59, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Don't be a dick 

message: I am a wiki vandal but this page has made me think otherwise.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.72.122.3 (talk) 21:13, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  May 2008 

message: Or whining. Those are common responces one may get when following the advice and "reporting disruptive users to administrators". Thus the flow chart should have one more step: "Does the administrator care"? "Yes - done", "No - try again or go on wikibreak after all". PS. I am an administrator :) --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  22:04, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "You are block shopping" 

message: Please someone answer this. I've been editing a talkpage of a controversive article on climate change denial and minutes later I was tagged as "a possible sibaby sockpuppet".
I don't know who tagged me and why. Maybe it's because I used colons for subparagraphs to make better layout which looked as if I was answering myself. Or maybe it's because the person above me was also tagged and someone thought we were the same person.  Maybe because I use shared IP. Or maybe tagging system is being abused.
Anyways, soon users KimDabelsteinPetersen and William M. Connolley deleted my comment in discussion panel. It was titled "this article could become neutral". There I gave some editorial ideas they didn't like. 
After I contacted them on their talkpages to make things clear, Kim changed strategy. He claimed that my edit on article's talkpage includes private opinion which makes it irrevelant soapbox without a source and deleted it again. 
So I've found a few sources and reverted my thread back thinking now everything was going to be OK. But I was wrong. Kim's friend Aunt Entropy deleted my comment again without any explaination. I asked why did he/she do that on users talkpage but he/she simply deleted it!
Please someone tell me how can I check who tagged me? how can I become untagged? and do they have the right to censor article's talkpage?  78.131.137.50 (talk) 05:45, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Someone tell me how should I behave

message: Hi everyone, does it have any reason (maybe a hidden joke) that the one "difficult editor" suddenly becomes plural ("shower them...") right after the first question in the flow chart? ;-) Greetings from Germany —[[[:de:User:JøMa|ˈjøː]]ˌmaˑ] 11:08, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I see it's a long time since you asked this. Nonetheless: an answer. Singular they. Enjoy. 86.178.229.168 (talk) 00:24, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sudden plural 

message: The guidelines presented in the IMAGE (not the test) are not useful, because 'WikiLove' is not a concept that can be precisely defined and thus different users can take it to mean VERY different things and still be well inside the confines of 'policy'. Well, of course this is not OFFICIAL policy yet, but let's assume it's a consensus. So because of the ambiguity of the term "WikiLove" this chart does more harm than good and I suggest that it's amply reviewed.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Omulurimaru (talk • contribs) 13:19, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  NOT useful 

message: The flowchart shown on this page makes a reference to "wikiquette alerts". This Wikipedia process, which was later renamed to Wikiquette Assistance, was closed in 2012. So this should be removed from the flowchart. Kidburla (talk) 20:03, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I have removed the flowchart from the essay in Special:Diff/1109074465. It referenced two obsolete Wikipedia processes, Wikiquette assistance and editor reviews, which will only confuse readers. This essay is currently being linked in user talk page warning templates such as  that are read by new editors who are not familiar with the history of these obsolete processes. — Newslinger talk 19:57, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flowchart correction