Talk:Eagles in Middle-earth

message: I disagreed with this paragraph: 
Apparently the same origin for the Great Eagles is implied by the speech of Manwë within the essay: "... before the Children awake there shall go forth with wings like the wind the Eagles of the Lords of the West. ... In the mountains the Eagles shall house, and hear the voices of those who call upon [the Valar]."  Apparently the same origin for the Great Eagles is implied by the speech of Manwë within the essay (...)
After all, it’s said in "O Silmarillion":
”When the Children awake, then the thought of Yavanna will awake also, and it will summon spirits from afar (…)”
The spirits summoned by Yavanna come to Arda only afterwards the Awakening of the Elves, nevertheless the eagles already existed "before the Children awake”. So, the eagles is not between the spirts summoned by Yavanna in that paragraph. 
This way I think the Myths VIII is “valid”, yet. Eagles have no fëar, they are like dragons: they have inside themselves a "part" of their creator, which defines their conduct, or their “programming”.
Where Tokien said that dragons didn't have spirits on they own? It is fairly obvious fo me that they were incarnated maiar... Also premanently incarnated maiar could have chidren - Luthien was a child of Melian and ents could have children. Mithoron (talk) 16:11, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Did eagles have spirits?

message: I don't understand how the idea of the eagles being maiar leads to the idea of Beorn being one. The eagles being maiar is a good explanation for them to have fëa, but Beorn was a man, not an animal.Seba5618 20:12, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So I just remove the thought of Beorn being a maiar, it just doesn't fit. Eagles might be maiar because that's an explanation for their fëa, but Beorn is a men (with a weird hability I agree).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Seba5618 (talk • contribs) 03:18, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: ¿Beorn a maiar?

message: An important influence on Tolkien's conceptualization of the Eagles and the role they play as Gandalf's rescuer (many times) comes from the Kalevala, the Finnish epic myth.  The Kalevala influenced Tolkien and the Lord of the Rings in many ways.  Few people in the States realize to just how great an extent since the epic isn't very well known in the U.S.  Tom Bombadil, the tale of Turin, the song of Tinuviel before Morgoth's throne, and many other episodes are based in whole or in part on the Finnish poems.  Likewise the Eagles as rescuers.  In the Kalevala, a great Eagle, the lord of the skies, rescues the hero Vainamoinen (a bard and wizard who was an influence on the characters of both Gandalf and Tom Bombadil) from peril after he's been waylaid by an enemy, and carries him to the destination of his quest far to the north.  Tolkien read the Kalevala when he was a student at Cambridge, and the eagle-rescue episode with the Finnish wizard doubtless appealed to him and was transformed into into Gandalf's encounter(s). 169.253.4.21 (talk) 12:58, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Add this in with a reference. Uthanc (talk) 06:21, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Eagles and Vainamoinen 

message: I provided the reference photography and talon/beak castings for Weta Digital for the Peter Jackson LOTR films.  Photos here: www.gryphonking.com and the bird is indeed a golden eagle.  It is also my understanding that the idea for the Great Eagles was in part inspired by a pub called the Eagle And Child that Tolkien and his colleagues frequented.  Mercedes Lackey, American fantasy and science fiction writer, visited it and reports that the Eagle and Child is on an out-of-the-way side street at Oxford, and was frequented by the Inklings and was a popular professorial hangout.  Its sign features the image of a huge eagle carrying away a child (presumably to eat it).  Also, the gryphons (who are often lead, viewpoint characters) in the novels written by Mercedes Lackey and me often serve many similar story purposes to Tolkein's eagles, but have more in common with hangar-queen fighter jets and cocky pilots than with angels and holy messengers. However, their vanity precludes them realizing they aren't divine.  Larry Dixon The Gryphon King (talk) 10:25, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Now that's interesting, thanks for the hint. I've added a bit about the films to the article. But while the theory about The Eagle and Child sounds plausible, we'd need something verifiable like an online text by either Misty or someone else to back it up. De728631 (talk) 16:14, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gwaihir and the Eagles in the LOTR Films 

message: I've made some initial edits to reduce the level of POV in the section on the nature and origin of the Eagles, but I think there's a lot of work still to be done there. Most importantly, the final paragraph of that section feels a whole lot like a (good!) forum discussion post rather than like a neutral tertiary source. The claims that it previously made are not consensus claims in the "scholarly" community. My edits at this point have merely softened its conclusions, but that paragraph is still structured like it's making an argument rather than simply summarizing the known "facts" from the texts and their predominant interpretations: it needs a more thorough rewrite than I have time to give right now. Steuard (talk) 12:55, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  Um, a lot of time has elapsed but the article (and not just the 'Nature' section) remains in a parlous state, with as you say plenty of Original Research arguing freely from primary (Tolkien) material rather than so much as mentioning scholarly analysis. Basically it all needs a rewrite: the stats can speak for themselves here – 47 primary sources and 6 secondary (of which one's a screenwriter, one a fantasy artist who had a stuffed eagle, one is about a genus of wasps, and one is a video game report: so, basically we have almost NO proper discussion of the eagles here at all). Words like WP:TNT do come to mind. Chiswick Chap (talk) 22:05, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV/NOR in the "Nature" section