Talk:School uniform

message: I propose flagging this article for cleanup, or at least use of opinion. The "arguments for uniform" and "arguments against uniform" should be clearly stated, listed pros and cons, not a random 3 paragraphs at the bottom with obscure and somewhat illogical "facts". Wikipedia is supposed to read like a university textbook. (Not a highschool or elementary text, because those are sometimes written too personally.) At the very least, it should be coherent.
I also propose that this article uses "the arugment for uniforms". It can list the different effects that fashion has on childern going to school who do not have to wear uniforms to school. Some of the effects can or may include low self esteem for those who can not afford the name brand clothing, physcial and mental abuse from other students and also depression.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by KHEnglish (talk • contribs) 19:27, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Clean up

message: I read somewhere that a school cannot remove you from class for not wearing the school uniform, apparently its against your rights. I was wondering, is this true? If someone could confirm this for me, or find me some sort of legal document that states it, I'd be grateful --JJMan 12:21, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Of Course a school can remove you if you are not wearing the school uniform. Lots of people do get removed. --Margaret  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.7.51.232 (talk) 23:50, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It depends which country you are talking about. Laws vary from one country to another. Alarics (talk) 06:46, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Compulsory?

message: "School uniform are common..."
"No way!" Seriously. Capitan Obvio 00:31, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grammar. 

message: This article needs more on the cons of school uniforms.
We are Uniform of Borg. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.--Planetary 03:23, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  This has a POV!!!! 

message: Although many private school uniforms are similar to the ones described below for public schools, a few still require more formal British-style school uniforms
(See words in Bold)
There appears to have been some deleting/moving done at some point which led to there being no description of public school uniforms "below" the quoted sentence. Mip | Talk 15:11, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  USA - Incomplete Sentence 

message: It says Malta requires kids to bring pets to school or they face the death penalty. This is ridiculous. It looks like blatant vandalism.--theRealdeal
:There was some vandalism that wasn't completely reverted. That's now been fixed. Thank you for pointing out the problem. BlankVerse 13:24, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Me Me Me Me 

message: i dont see how whether you like/support school uniforms or not is relevent to an encylopedia article. as far as i can tell there is no raging controversy or public debate about the use of school uniforms in the countries in which they exist. there certainly isnt in australia. maybe some petulent schoolkids dont like them but really, who cares? it really isnt worth noting. i dont like the dentist. i dont expect ppl's oppinion of the dentist to be in the [dentist] article. i want to know the 'facts'. apparently everything on wikipedia is a topic of hot controversy. aussietiger 12:39, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  relevence of your opinion 

message: In the Efficiency section:
The study also found that uniforms had a negative effect on student attitudes because the students feel like everyone else, whereas Mufti tends to improve students attitude towards school and allows them to express their personality.
What should "Mufti" be replaced with? Samurai 004 11:14, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I see someone's now wikilinked it — it's a word for casual clothes. I've certainly used it for as long as I can remember. I don't think it's vandalism. Angus Lepper(T, C, D) 18:28, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This sounds to me like a localised colloquialism and should probably be changed to something more formal as I have never hear the term and the only source cited for mufti was Australian. 82.41.15.93 (talk) 20:35, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism? 

message: This section sounds a bit like it may be in need of some citation, if people agree, maybe we could whack a label or something on...what do we think? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dragonkillernz (talk • contribs) 11:16, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Efficiency 

message: Why does Mufti in the Efficiancy section link to a position of power within the Muslim tradition?! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.31.133.169 (talk) 04:31, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  mufti 

message: There is nothing about history of school uniform in this article. We need to add it here. --Andysoft 11:28, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: History of uniform

message: There has been a 'revert war' between Egard89 and I over whether to keep the Malaysian school uniform pictures. He claimed "well..i just see a bunch of hoo-haa's wants to see themself on the *internet*.....geez, get a friendster or something...".
This is my defence:
1. As school uniforms are a form of apparel - it is best illustrated when they are worn.
2. I think we should appreciate that the subjects are willing to contribute to Wikipedia as opposed to a bunch of show-offs.  Furthermore, their names are not published - I do not see how a person can derive fame or ego out of it.
I recognise that improvements can always be made. However, until then - I believe that the pictures should be kept, until better ones could be found and published. Thank you. Cavernosa 11:23, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Malaysian School Uniform Pictures

message: I've protected this page due to the tremendous amount of edit warring going on. I would strongly advise all parties involved to use that time to discuss  the matter or if need be seek dispute resolution, and not to continue the edit war once the protection expires. Hopefully this can be resolved without any further trouble. Seraphimblade Talk to me 03:37, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Protected

message: in theory school uniforms makes students wear similar clothing therfore i theory there should be less bullying about clothes.  Just because you were a uniform dose not meen that they will be no fights. there is still bulling and the problems still do not go away. they did test on the fact that if you ware a uniform there are no figths but there are. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.220.102.253 (talk) 15:00, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  a theory 

message: How come no unformation about chinese school uniform?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.83.164.199 (talk) 03:46, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  China? 

message: Most schools in India and schools that follow Indian curriculum usually always have a standard uniform code for students. Howcome there isn't a section for India in this article?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.246.40.54 (talk) 15:23, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  India  

message: many african countries (former british colonies) have uniforms - in south africa , uniform is as strict as singapore can we please write about the forgotten continent , and what about s.america? they might not have school uniforms but if so, then write so. i was wondering also if we could make a table of countries who have school uniforms.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bezuidenhout (talk • contribs) 06:32, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  South Africa / Africa 

message: As a UK student I'd say that the assertion 'almost all British schools require pupils to wear uniforms' is false, is there any evidence for this? From my own experience I'd say that most primary schools and sixth-forms do not require uniform. 82.26.21.81 (talk) 16:23, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: While not directly related to the above comment, I noticed that the picture associated with the UK school uniforms incorrectly identifies the students as from London. They may have been in London on a trip at the time the picture was taken, but they are from a private Roman Catholic girls' school in Farnborough, Hampshirehttp://www.farnborough-hill.org.uk/Default/aboutUs/mission.aspx. Can this information be corrected? I'd try to do it myself but I'm not entirely sure how these things work. Also, I'm not sure anyone else cares.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.140.146.182 (talk) 16:37, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

text: -- Alarics (talk) 18:16, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  UK 

message: Why was the section on Singapore removed?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.23.56.7 (talk) 20:13, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Singapore 

message: At my school (I live in the UK and am in year 9) by december year 7 nearly everyone, boys and girls, undo their top buttons, untuck shirts and roll up their skirts (in the case of girls, obviously). This is the same through out every school in my town, grammar and all. Admittedly I only recently started doing it. None of the schools are bad, in fact they are all ranked in the top 50 so why isn't this mentioned?
After year 8 most people never do their top buttons up when asked to, they just tighten their ties alot and push them right up. Ties aren't worn properly either. 95jb14 (talk) 19:25, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Nobody is stopping you from mentioning it in the article, if you can find a reliable source to support it. Your own personal experience doesn't count, as that would constitute WP:OR. --- Alarics (talk) 20:54, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  'Bad Uniform' 

message: Should there be information about school uniforms in France? Angie Y. (talk) 23:57, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  France 

message: This is in the Subheading "Indonesia":
In primary school, the boys wore the school shirt, school tie, school pants, school capand belt. The girls wear school shirts and school skirt.
At scout, the boys wore a hat, a scout shirt, a scout tie, scout pants and badges. The girl wears a scout tie, a scout skirt, a scout shirt and badges. Note this is not only siaga.
At international school such as SBGG and Springfield, they don't wear attire. File:Imgres.jpg
This stub was poorly done. First, what exactly is a "School Shirt"? or "School Pants"? The writer didn't specify any style, cloth, or other implement used in the uniform to give it distinction with other uniforms from other countries. Same goes for the Scouting Uniform. Everybody knows what a Scouting Uniform looks like. It wasn't specified that they wear other types of unifrom then the ones prescribed by the Boy Scout Movement. And the Term Siaga, which I found out to demote Scouting badges, wasn't elaborated nor defined.
Second comes with the "Kinda Cool" phrase. Wikipedia is an Encyclopedia. It is not a forum. It must only contain fact and not Opinion. What looks cool for one may not look cool for another. Such informality is not suitable for a Wikipedia article. 
Last is the mention of SBGG and Springfield. What is the meaning of SBGG? And what is Springfield? Is it Springfield in the Simpsons? or Springfield Massachusetts? One must ensure that the facts are cmplete so that users of Wikipedia won't get confused.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nejibana17 (talk • contribs) 10:26, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too Casual, Too short, Too uninformative. 

message: I'm not too sure about what Wikipedia says about privacy issues surrounding children, but some of the pictures, such as File:School uniforms GBR.jpg, might be a breach of privacy. Whilst I don't completely agree with some of the Politically Correct views of children on the web, we don't know whether permission was granted for the picture to be taken. I'm just wandering what other editors' views are... 95jb14 (talk) 18:55, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: They look quite pleased to have their picture taken. I say leave it unless somebody complains. If people appear in public they are in the public domain and anyone should be able to take a picture of them. -- Alarics (talk) 20:21, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Privacy issue? 

message: The Efficacy section needs to be fixed. It seems to reference a source that argues how school uniforms are ineffective. It is immediately followed by a quote that supports the effectiveness of uniforms. 
I'm only a passing visitor. However, someone needs to separate the pros and cons and provide a source for the second quotation. If the second quotation comes from the source above it, then the fact that that source provides different conclusions needs to be mentioned. It's poorly written. 
I'd also recommend that the efficacy section be expanded. I would suggest that people will visit this article primarily to get information on the pros and cons of school uniforms, as well as if they are a good idea. The types of uniforms around the world are probably of secondary importance to visitors and researchers. While some may argue that point, there are certainly many studies available on this subject. A comprehensive sysnthesis of those studies would be a valuable addition to that section of this article. Airborne84 (talk) 05:28, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: My inclination would be to remove it. -- Alarics (talk) 22:13, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

text: It should undoubtedly be expanded. It is far too short. I see absolutely no reason to remove it, and very good reason not to. The efficacy and purpose of school uniforms is central to the issue of school uniforms, and I rather agree with Airborne84's comment above. People who come to this article, want information of school uniforms. As such, the history of school uniforms, their purpose and their efficacy are things that should be included. A long list of what school uniforms exits, in each and every country that has them, however, is not really all that relevant. At best, that should be in a separate article. If any section should be removed, it's the "By country" one.--ZarlanTheGreen (talk) 03:41, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

text: Speaking of the "By country" bit, I figured... why complain? It's now a separate article.--ZarlanTheGreen (talk) 03:57, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Efficacy 

message: "Country X has school uniforms" doesnt constitute an article of encyclopaedic value. Im sure there are schools in every country that do and do not have uniforms (not to mention mufti days (which can be mentioned here). Some other sections have more info but are not or poorly sourced. We didnt need to add countries for the sake of it. the ones that are sourced are good to keep, the rest should be improved or taken out.(Lihaas (talk) 02:45, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The "by country" section is just ridiculously long, listing an absurd number of countries and going into excessive detail for arbitrarily chosen ones. It needs to be severely trimmed to give at most a sample of a few countries, well sourced. A subarticle called school uniforms by country or something similar can be created if need be. Richard001 (talk) 01:38, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  nonsensical additions by country 

message: An image used in this article, , has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests September 2011 
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thread_title: File:Boy In School Uniform.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: I dont think this image is of cuban girls. the sign indicates its venezuela, and che could easily be portrayed on a school there. image name may be misleading.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 08:10, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Cuban schoolgirls

message: Hi all
After reading the section on school uniforms in America, I was under the impression that most Americans have school uniforms (or were forced to follow a very strict dress code). I just completed high school in Wisconsin, and have yet to encounter anyone who was forced to wear any kind of uniform. Yes, there was a dress code. For my school that was something along the lines of:
*no showing boxers or bras
*no gang stuff (I don't know what exactly this entailed..)
*no adult content (alcohol, cigarettes, etc)
However, one was still permitted to come to school in any of these combinations
*a t-shirt, jeans, and sneakers (guys or girls)
*a t-shirt, pajama bottoms, and sneakers (guys or girls)
*a blouse, leggings, and flats (girls)
*a suit (guys)
To the best of my knowledge, these rules were quite universal in middle class, suburban, midwestern American schools. I do not feel that the Wikipedia article reflects this reality.
129.22.18.203 (talk) 03:22, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The article says of the USA "almost all schools do not have a uniform, and instead have a dress code of some sort". So that appears to be in line with what you have said here. But do please amend the article if you think it is wrong, and please cite reliable sources if you can find any. -- Alarics (talk) 07:41, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  USA 

message: An image used in this article, , has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests April 2012 
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Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
* If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use)
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To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant 
This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 16:50, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: File:Bodindecha (Sing Singhaseni) School Student - 001.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: Whilst I agree that to adequately describe a uniform, a picture might well speak 1000 words, there are 28 images on this page.  I have removed a few that are at the lower end of being helpful - partial uniform, etc.  This article is just getting a bit too excessive when it comes to images.  Chaheel Riens (talk) 14:38, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. This article has always been a bit of a random mess more generally, as well. Do feel free to clean it up. Apart from anything else, there are far too many unsourced assertions. -- Alarics (talk) 17:47, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image overload 

message: The fact that there isn't a sizeable history section, with plenty of references, in this article, is baffling to me. It seems like something that would be vital, for an encyclopaedic article about school uniforms, to cover their history.--ZarlanTheGreen (talk) 04:03, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Anybody can add such a section to the article provided it is well-sourced. GeorgeLouis (talk) 06:13, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why is there no history section? 

message: Why is there no section on the purpose of school uniforms? This would appear to be vital issue to cover and I don't see how you could have an article about school uniforms in an encyclopaedia, without mentioning the reason for their existence. Besides, how can you have a section of the efficacy of school uniforms, unless you first establish what they are supposed to accomplish? There should be a section about the purpose of the school uniform, placed right before the section on their efficacy. Covering the purposes people state for them now, and in the past. (though some of this should be covered by the history section ...which is, inexplicably, nowhere to be found)--ZarlanTheGreen (talk) 04:09, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Anybody can add such a section to the article provided it is well-sourced. GeorgeLouis (talk) 06:12, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Purpose 

message: The WikiProject Education talk page discussion did not conclude that the Draa study was a reliable source. That issue remains unsettled there.
...and the Reliable sources Noticeboard (which I only now paid attention to and read) had a lot of disagreement on whether or not it counted as a reliable source.
It did not reach anything even approaching consensus.
Thus you have two places where no one agreed on the issue.
I do not understand the disagreement in the Reliable sources Noticeboard, as one editor made a direct quotation from Wikipedia:Reliable Sources, which clearly states that dissertations aren't necessarily reliable sources, though they can be. (i.e. for it to count as a reliable source, you need to show that it has the features that are described there. Otherwise it isn't). Thus the study is not a reliable source, or would need other sources to verify that it is a reliable source ...as per Wikipedia policy. This trumps any noticeboard.
Furthermore it was frequently noted in the Reliable sources Noticeboard discussion, that inclusion of the Draa study (and yes it is a study ...but it is not a peer-reviewed' study) would probably constitute undue weight and thus not be appropriate to include.--ZarlanTheGreen (talk) 17:59, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Draa 

message: I thought it was established as "reliable" on the RS noticeboard already. I just asked again: Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Did_this_noticeboard_.22support.22_the_inclusion_of_the_Virginia_Draa_school_uniform_study_at_School_uniforms
WhisperToMe (talk) 11:36, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: On what possible grounds did you conclude that it was established as "reliable"? ...and even if it is reliable, most people seemed to agree that it was an example of WP:UNDUE WEIGHT. Especially as it conflicts with all the more proper studies. It is a rare fringe idea. Either way, it is inappropriate.--ZarlanTheGreen (talk) 13:01, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Virginia Draa study, redux 

message: There doesn't seem to be in-text attribution for anything in this section. I assume the editor of this just forgot. Removing this might remove that pesky essay strike. Moreover, some of the sources are opinionated. That's fine, but I'm pretty sure there's some psychological articles the editors can cite instead of gender journals. -- (end of unsigned initial comment)
Gender Studies journals publish peer-reviewed Social Sciences, Humanities and interdisciplinary research on gender. They typically do not publish opinion, as they are academic journals, not magazines. Editorial content such as introductions to issues or book reviews are labelled clearly in reputable journals. Gender Studies journals are no more or less reliable or biased than Psychology journals or any other academic discipline's journals. They are, however, specialized, in that their content is focused on gender and written by scholars who have spent years in study to become experts on gender. I can't fathom why anyone would think expertise makes a source less reliable. -- Sarah 2001:56A:F6E6:8000:65F0:96C7:F2E1:4C16 (talk) 09:00, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV for Social implications of School uniforms on gender? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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