Talk:Salsa (food)

message: The article currently states  "In English it is pronounced /ˈsɑːlsə/, while in British English it is pronounced as /ˈsælsə/"
Which 'English' is the first mention referring to? This entire sentence seems inconsistent/ignorant of the way the English language is organised. Is it suggesting that ALL other English speakers around the world pronounce it the same way? If so, it should say 'all other English speakers'. Since this is not likely, it should probably say something like:
In American (???) English it is pronounced /ˈsɑːlsə/, while in British English it is pronounced as /ˈsælsə/  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.146.6.79 (talk) 13:40, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  'English' versus 'British English' 

message: Why is there no Spanish version of this article? You might think that something like that should have one. How do Spanish-speaking people call it since it just means "sauce" in Spanish?--2001:16B8:2E21:F200:616D:F7FC:331:D33 (talk) 06:59, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: In the Spanish WP, there are articles like :es:Salsa_roja_picante_(M%C3%A9xico), :es:Pico de gallo (redirected from :es:Salsa mexicana), etc. I suppose there could be an article on salsas mexicanas or salsas crudas mexicanas, but that's up to the editors of the Spanish WP. --Macrakis (talk) 20:52, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spanish article 

message: These are some options:
#It has been argued forcefully on this talk page that the meaning of salsa in English is usually for salsa Picante. I don't dispute it and reliable sources confirm it. Salsa verde is usually called salsa verde, salsa golf, etc. There is no reliable source connecting these salsas into one single article. Some have entered the English language as salsas (salsa golf) others are called Romesco sauce, etc. 
#We should redirect salsa (sauce) to salsa Picante to abide the English language meaning (per forceful arguments made above by user Macrakis
#Mr. Ollie has argued this article should only cover the jarred "salsa" used as dip for tortilla chips (what most Americans mean when they say Salsa with no qualifiers). 
#Second part of the proposed solution would be to create this at salsa (dip)
#The leftover content would be merged into relevant articles.
If this is ok for others here we can move forward.
Spudlace (talk) 18:26, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Per WP:COMMONNAME this should not be moved to Salsa Picante - it should remain where it is (once it has been reverted back to the former coverage of the topic, that is). - MrOllie (talk) 18:32, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

text: Salsa picante currently redirects to Pico de gallo which also seems to be a valid target. Salsa Picante (note caps) is about an album and shouldn't be touched. The Pico de gallo article has been around a long time, it would be prudent to start a merge discussion rather than redirecting that one unilaterally. - MrOllie (talk) 20:14, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, I think we've reached consensus to adopt your proposal stated above "This article should primarily be about the salsa most english speakers are familiar with, that is the one that they buy at the grocery store next to the tortilla chips." Spudlace (talk) 20:22, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. It should not include only the commercial red version in a jar, but all the other sauces (raw or cooked) that are typically served with tortilla chips, tacos, etc. in restaurants or homes. Of course, there should be cross-references to any varieties that have their own articles, like salsa verde. --Macrakis (talk) 20:27, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  You just told me you wanted to remove all of that stuff like salsa golf. I have to log off for now, but the scope of the article was narrowed to tomato-based sauces (the commonname) by YOUR request. Maybe figure out what you want before creating a big dispute? When I copied the article to the new one we agreed to it had a new talk page so I am no longer watching this one. Spudlace (talk) 20:48, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, salsa golf is not in the family of "Mexican sauces served at table and usually used on tacos, etc., and in the US associated with tortilla chips." At least around here (Cambridge, Mass.), taquerias offer several different salsas, not just the tomato-based one. Heck, even Wal-Mart sells salsa verde. But it is certainly true, as earlier versions of the article made clear, that the most common one is the tomato-based one. --Macrakis (talk) 21:40, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

text: The current article emphasizes too heavily pico de gallo. This article should have been more like the kebab article including all culturally relevant salsas (like sofrito). We wouldn't merge kebabs to grilled meats because it's not done that way by reliable sources. The recognition of cultural spheres in the broad sense is of encyclopedic significance and we should not make big change what reliable sources have done. It's not equivalent to claims of ancient national origins that are mostly legendary unverifiable claims to unique possession of the common cultural exchanges and domains of human history. (After much debate we agreed to split the American-Mexican style of restaurant table sauce as the common meaning of the term in English. I'm not sure that it was the best outcome for the article.) Spudlace (talk) 04:40, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Spudlace I understand that the way the article has turned out is not to everyone's liking. But taking it as it is at the moment, it can still be improved. Yes, it is too focused on one kind of salsa because it's been decided in the discussion above to abide by the English language meaning, and this should be made clear in the article - that following the English terminology we focus on one type but acknowledge that there are many. My suggestions above which are copy-, rather than content-, edits are still relevant. Please let me know if I can have a go at it or you would like to do it. Leoseliv (talk) 12:19, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Go for it. What's been rejected is the broad use of the term salsa for sauces. My main objection was that where its culturally relevant the terminology salsa has been preserved by the communities that use it (Sephardic Jews as a sourced example) and reliable sources. There is overlap between green sauce and salsa verde chimchurri and several reliable sources describe the use of red salsas as cooking sauces, not only table sauces. The decision to focus this article on table sauces served at Mexican American restaurants was a poor one, and contrary to reliable sources, but I got tired of arguing about it.  Spudlace (talk) 20:54, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moving forward 

message: I just reverted a cut and paste move of this article - even if we should retitle this page (which does not appear to have consensus behind it), the move should be done via the software to preserve the article history. To gauge consensus for a possible move, see WP:RM#CM - MrOllie (talk) 20:48, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cut and paste page move 

message: , I question the value of Sofrito, Matbukha, and Galayet bandora in the "see also" section. Sofrito is a sauce base for other dishes (not generally served on its own), and matbukha and galayet bandora are stand-alone dishes, not sauces, condiments, or dips. Are we going to include all tomato-based sauces in that section (there are a lot of them), even if they're not used as condiments or dips, and even though not all salsa (in the North American sense) is tomato-based? Still, I think it makes sense to add :Category:Tomato sauces since many of them are (which I've done). --Macrakis (talk) 18:02, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: See also