Talk:The Black Dahlia Murder (band)

message: Death metal is incredibly fitting. leave it at that.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wrathful God (talk • contribs) 00:23, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: There's a "style" section which would be the same use as a genre section. Well saying they are an extreme metal band would mean they combine black, death, thrash and sometimes doom metal and they surely don't. A band that would suit that tag well is Cradle of Filth. Leaving it as melodic death metal / metalcore is easier. FireCrystal (talk) 22:03, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

text: Of course extreme metal can be any of those genres. I really meant to say that extreme metal is an umbrella term for generalizing those genres such as on a band page. Cradle of Filth is hard to define so extreme metal was the best choice. Saying a band is heavy metal when they have subgenres of progressive, thrash, speed, and power metal would be used to generalize their multitude of genres. Though the band's elements of black and thrash is up for debate if any reviewer/etc at all said they had some of those elements. Metalcore is not always associated with extreme metal, while melodic death is but it would still be better to leave it as is. You might get even more people screwing around with it if we used extreme metal so just revert it on spot. Besides a consensus/agreement was reached. FireCrystal (talk) 23:32, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  INSTEAD OF GENRE DEBATING LIKE RETARDS 

message: And I'm removing the metalcore genre since the source is invalid.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.220.252.190 (talk) 19:34, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The genre debate is an old topic and consensus has already been reached, so your disagreement is irrelevant. In addition, removing referenced sources is blanking, a form of WP:VANDALISM. --Danteferno (talk) 16:24, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: With all due respect, consensus can change. We don't have to model ourselves off the IPCC soapbox.--WaltCip (talk) 18:37, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: True, consensus can change, but there's been no new information provided to justify a change. Unfortunately, it's still anon/auto-confirmed accounts blanking citations and trying to push their POV, and trying to use the same, "OMG, if the band says they R not metalcore, they R NoT metalcore!" argument, which hasn't held any water from day one. Bottom line: there's no dispute here, just POV pushing/blanking/vandalism, and that's one of the reasons the page was protected for a second time. --Danteferno (talk) 19:50, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, I think the members of a band would know what they play.  And anyway, how much of Black Dahlia Murder's music have you heard? yes (talk) 00:34, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  THEY'RE NOT METALCORE!!! 

message: (2FireCrystal)  I am confused as to why you're confused?  Is it because of the long-running genre disagreement? or is it that you don't feel a genre box in a band's article who plays within that genre is appropriate?  But then, why would you think that?   .`^) Paine Ellsworthdiss`cuss (^`.  21:21, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The genre debate is irrelevant here so lets look at it with this point of view: ever seen a featured band article with one? FireCrystal (talk) 22:49, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: A featured band article with a genre box?  Well, no.  Guess we never will.  Of course a good point in your favor might be that a band like this one covers more than one specific genre, so perhaps you're right.   .`^) Paine Ellsworthdiss`cuss (^`.  05:09, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, genre boxes shouldn't be anywhere else but on an article about a music genre. FireCrystal (talk) 05:54, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Genre box 

message: so loads of talk about the concensus that was reached in some debate, alot of good it is if noone can see the debate to know why this was agreed. and in my opinion the sources for metalcore is a load of shite.The-deejjj (talk) 14:17, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: apparent genre debate?

message: The don't play metalcore or deathcore. They're straight melo-death. They have not so much melody or clean vocals, so that makes them not metalcore. Deathcore is almost like death metal, it has way more down-tuned guitars with growls. That makes TBDM not even deathcore. They're simply a heavy band with some melody once in a while and mostly pitch up vocals, the definition of melodic death metal.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.131.217.193 (talk) 16:06, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Three reliable sources stating the oposite says you're incorrect. • GunMetal Angel 02:56, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  We know that, or at least anyone with half a brain does, it does not matter though, because wikipedia works through reliable and varifiable sourcing. Meaning that if a reliable and varifiable source says that they are "core" then they are as far as wikipedia is concerned. 173.59.227.146 (talk) 13:48, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

text:  I agree, the real fans almost unanimously agree that there is nothing -core about TBDM. There is not a single aspect of any of their music that has anything in common with hardcore or metalcore. No breakdowns, very little growled vocals, and the speed and tempo and melody are almost entirely characteristic of melodic death metal. I also don't see why the band's own genre definition of themselves as such doesn't count as a "verifiable"/"reliable" source. In my opinion, what the band says they play is THE most reliable source.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.250.129.168 (talk) 21:57, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  They are nothing but melodic death metal! 

message: Just because we're loud and better than everyone else doesn't mean we aren't included in a band. Where's Shannon, the drummer?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.146.92.44 (talk) 17:10, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I have yet to see a picture that has the entire band, and is free to use (modify, or for commercial use).   Has Shannon in it, yet doesn't have Trevor or Ryan. Next time they come near me, I'll try to get a picture of the entire band. TheWeakWilled (T * G) 15:17, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Picture Change

message: On Wednesday June 6th, 2011 , the Black Dahlia Murder posted at 2:03 Pm 'We Ain't "Deathcore"...' via Facebook. This settles the argument of the band being classified as  "Deathcore" Not to say that a multitude of bands that are Deatchore haven't been on tour with the band.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.57.161.22 (talk) 07:35, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: No they didn't, and even if they did, it would hold no weight.  If Cannibal Corpse said on Facebook that they were not death metal and were instead post-hardcore, would that constitute a genre change on their wikipedia page? TheWeakWilled (T * G) 14:08, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Why would you lie about a Facebook post? The band have even clearly stated they don't even care about what genre they're pigeonholed under anymore years ago and (as TheWeakWilled stated) it doesn't even matter what the band says in terms of if they are or aren't a particular genre :: If a white horse says it's black, it could deny it until the cows come home; it's still a white horse. If you want me to maintain a more relevant metaphor to the deathcore topic, then I can tell you that The Acacia Strain get labeled as deathcore all the time, and even their vocalist despises it. I've even talked to him about it in person. No one likes the word, it's the most controversial heavy metal genre in history. • GunMetal Angel 19:36, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  TBDM Is not Deathcore 

message: If you look at the article for deatchore, the characteristic that differentiates the genre from death metal is breakdowns (as in the slow tempo kind). I have never heard that in a TBDM song. It stays at a single tempo.
Plus, as others have pointed out, the source isn't even valid. If consensus is based off of untrustworthy sources, then I cannot trust said consensus.
And if the main article labels them as metalcore and deathcore, how come it's not the same for any of the articles for their albums or EPs? Not to mention that they're not mentioned anywhere on the "List of deathcore artists" page. I have heard deathcore, and it sounds nothing like THBM.
Now sorry, if I've made anyone mad. I am relatively new to these parts of the site. It's just this oversight disturbs me.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gigakoops (talk • contribs) 04:49, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yet another debate over TBDM not being deathcore/metalcore. 

message: It was announced by the band that Max Levelle is officially replacing Bart Williams. Please do not remove the edits for this. Link  Xombie (talk) 21:37, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Max Levelle officially announced as new Bassist 

message: I have fully-protected the page for one week because of the edit-warring over the genres. I think this would be an excellent time to try dispute resolution - would you be willing to file a new request at the dispute resolution noticeboard? They're generally very good at handling things like this. Hopefully we can find a solution that you're all happy with. Best — Mr. Stradivarius (have a chat) 14:06, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: This has been a back-and-forth issue for over 7 years now. It begins with the three genres in place (melodic death metal, deathcore, metalcore, all reliably sourced); one (or more) users propagates "fan feedback" or the "views of the band", and insists that the band is not "metalcore" and blanks the genres they disagree with (and even the sources, too). Then, the article is semi-protected. Then, the genre warring users (mostly autoconfirms) continue their "TBDM is not metalcore!" argument eventhough reliable sources prove otherwise. Then, there's a period of dormancy (no disruption). Then, the aforementioned cycle repeats itself. In the strictest sense, there's really no dispute. Reasonable disputes on Wikipedia are always remedied by impartial consensus. The impartial consensus was that this band played (and plays) in all three genres, and reliable sources back that up. The users who blank the information have provided no explanation and oftentimes have not used the talk pages for discussion. Many other "-core" related band articles have had similar cases, this one just happens to beat out the rest, as one can see from the protection history. -Danteferno (talk) 21:09, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi there, and thanks for filling me in. I have a question, though - has this issue ever been discussed on other pages? I'm thinking of maybe a WikiProject talk page, or the reliable sources noticeboard, or maybe the dispute resolution noticeboard. If it has, then I'd like to view the threads and see what they say. — Mr. Stradivarius (have a chat) 11:45, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello, there was never any actual dispute about the sources. The only source dispute (which was brought up on the reliable sources noticeboard) was this case, about 5 months back. Another user, who has since abandoned editing the article, thought that a band interview from a non-reputable website would justify "attribution" of the band's genre. You can see the outcome of that discussion in the RSN archives. You will see that his justification didn't hold any water. As for the dispute resolution noticeboard, the editor(s) who have continuously blanked the genre are not participating in this discussion. There's no reason to believe he/they would think differently about the DSN. The pattern of the edits seems to implicate the "blankers" as infrequent editors, as having limited comprehension (or regard) for Wikipedia policy/process, and that the blanking activity is limited to the Infobox. --Danteferno (talk) 21:37, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protected 

message: So would this be enough to remove the completely wrong Metalcore label from the genre box?
http://www.underthegunreview.net/2011/06/11/review-the-black-dahlia-murder-ritual/
"Often MISLABELED as a metalcore act, The Black Dahlia Murder have been delivering on their melodic death metal sound full-force since the 2003 release of Unhallowed." Seems like a legit site to me too. And if you won´t remove it, at least add "(early)" to the metalcore genre like another user has suggested (because even the band admits that their early demos were very hardcore influenced, but after that they just started to play straight-forward melodic death metal).  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.80.253.12 (talk) 00:44, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Where on Wikipedia does it say that a non-reliable website reference would justify the removal or modification of published, reliable sources? I'm not finding that anywhere. Until a reliable source can be found in regards to the band's genre, there's really not much to talk about.--Danteferno (talk) 02:43, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Something i found. 

message: in section musical styles and influences, there's a dead link for deathcore.--195.29.156.245 (talk) 18:01, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  dead link 

message: WILL PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THEY'RE NOT METALCORE?!?!?!??!????!????!?!?!??!??!??!?!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.145.213.170 (talk) 19:40, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  Wikipedia genres are determined by reliable sourcing, not reality. 72.81.235.196 (talk) 08:50, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Metalcore 

message: Title speaks for itself. Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KzAmKxIArGk#!
 I would edit the page myself but it's semi-protected.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.67.98.195 (talk) 00:04, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alan Cassidy Confirmed as New Drummer 

message: http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/The_Black_Dahlia_Murder/5450
Well known site in the metal community, hardcore/metalcore bands do not even get listed here, and they're simply listed here as "Melodic Death Metal."
--121.99.64.157 (talk) 06:46, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reliable Source for Genre 

message: The black dahlia murder up until around 2007 were A deathcore band. The genre labels on there read "melodic death metal/death metal" where as they should read "melodic death metal/Deathcore (early)".
Their music before and including their album "Nocturnal" was quite similar to early Melodic metalcore although obviously without the clean guitar.... there's also A lot of similarities with late 90s hatebreed and Earth crisis (mainly the riffs and drums, although earth crisis's screaming vocals are quite similar as well.) although with A lower level of Hardcore punk present (obviously because deathcore being A mixture of Metalcore/melodic metalcore and Brutal death metal/deathgrind (like suffoction and dying fetus.) There's going to be less hardcore punk influence than Metallica hardcore.
The Red Chord's first release (after their Demo in 1991) titled "Fused Together in Revolving Doors" Sounds well more like Death metal (especially brutal death metal.) than the Black dahlia murder did even in 2007 and it is usually considered A deathcore release (as well as fitting the characteristics).
The Black Dahlia's album Nocturnal (which by far shares closest resemblance to death metal out of any of their early releases.) sounds VERY similar to All shall perish's "the price of existence" which is also a deathcore release (Which was released around the same time.) but the black dahlia's release was less technical and with less clean guitar passages as well as less growling vocals.
This is off "the price of existence" (2006) It's one of the least "death metal" songs on the album, it bares A lot of resemblance to the Black dahlia murder's song linked below (the others are A lot cleaner and more technical.) (All shall perish) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmcDUZi-_cU
this is A track off of their album Nocturnal 2007(the black dahlia murder) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwbj2gzzTpk 
This is A track from the Red Chord's 2002 release - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKA1IMMisRM&list=PL7F579BCB30D085B0  (this song obviously has A more prominent Death metal sound than the others on the album.)
My point is the Black Dahlia murder were never A straight Death metal band (if you'd like links to straight death metal bands I'm happy to oblige.) and their only Death metal material is their Melodic death metal material... which was only starting to become present after 2007 (and even their Melodic death metal material sounds more like deathcore than Melodic death metal.)
I'm not asking you to remove their Melodic death metal label although it's A very controversial label (as it could go either way.) I'm asking you to replace the DEATH METAL label with "Deathcore (early)" as all of their earlier Material is pretty standard 2002-2008 Deathcore.
49.180.123.62 (talk) 20:44, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: - Clearly there is no consensus, as shown by the long discussion further up this page.Moreover the proposal - to compare two tracks - is simply not how things work on Wikipedia - we need a reliable, independent source that states the genre, not a PoV obtained by original research - Arjayay (talk) 18:11, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 17 February 2014 

message: As was previously discussed here, could the introduction state the genre as extreme metal? This would make it more specific as opposed to simply "metal" (giving the reader a better idea of the type of band this is), while still accommodating all the genres the band is sometimes labelled (melodeath, death metal, deathcore, thrash metal and metalcore all fall under the term extreme metal). It seems like a good idea to me, but please outline why it isn't if you disagree.--MASHAUNIX 20:26, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I have since gone through with this change, but feel free to revert it and explain your reasoning to me.----MASHAUNIX 09:17, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extreme metal 

message: This band is far from melodic death, mainly death metal with a huge component of technical death. Then we can discuss how much metalcore component they have, which I think is none or at most maybe in some specific passages of some specific songs, but that would be as say that Avulsed is death and classic because of decrepit sigh. Summarizing, melodic death? not at all, listen to Dark Tranquillity and TBDM one after the other and you will regret of saying TBDM is melodic death. Now listen The Faceless and TBDM and you will find much more in common. Death/Tech Death.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.16.31.65 (talk) 21:15, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Right now we've only got sources for melodic death metal in the article. Find other reliable sources (articles, books, websites etc. written by professionals) that call them a death metal or techdeath band, and you can add that to their genres.--MASHAUNIX 21:27, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  My opinion instead of discussing as an idiot 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110928034835/http://www.uraniummusic.com/ilyapics/interviews/BDM.htm to http://www.uraniummusic.com/ilyapics/interviews/BDM.htm
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The Virginian death metal bands Arsis and Cannabis Corpse should be listed as associated acts as Brandon Ellis plays guitar in both. Not to mention, Ryan Knight is also a former guitarist of Arsis.  http://www.metal-archives.com/artists/Brandon_Ellis/279346 http://www.metal-archives.com/artists/Ryan_Knight/7352#artist_tab_past — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:19A:8200:9244:A9BC:DDE7:78C:8E73 (talk) 13:50, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Associated acts 

message: Do we really need to have death metal in the genre field? Melodic death metal is a subgenre of death metal. Also, melodic death metal has 4 sources while normal death metal has only 1 source. Statik N (talk) 01:02, 5 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Two points: 1) Infobox genres should aim for generality (see Template:Infobox_musical_artist#genre). 2) TBDM is not a typical melodeath band. Rather, they apply the Swedish emphasis on melody onto an American death metal template, as discussed in the musical style section.--MASHAUNIX 11:10, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: That sentence wasn't sourced so I removed it. If I misunderstood its interpretation you can revert me but it seemed as if it was a source meant only for the sentence saying their first demo was metalcore and then that sentence was tacked on at some point. Issan Sumisu (talk) 16:16, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Melodic death metal, death metal 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: First introduction paragraph at the top says "Their ninth and latest album Verminous was released on October 6, 2017." on the very last line. That date is incorrect. The correct date should be April 17, 2020. There the change should be from:
"Their ninth and latest album Verminous was released on October 6, 2017."
to instead say
"Their ninth and latest album Verminous was released on April 17, 2020." Mathiashellquist (talk) 09:50, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Done Fixed, thanks for pointing this out! aboideautalk 14:03, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 18 April 2020 

message: I would like to:
1 include cassette as a format for unhallowed
2 include cassette for as a format for Nightbringers
3 change "tba" in Verminous formats to cassette, CD, digital, and vinyl Krooklyn (talk) 04:52, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — Tartan357  (Talk) 10:33, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 7 May 2020 

message: Change "Links to the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline hint that he committed suicide." to "Links to the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline hint that he died by suicide." Cable ready (talk) 09:12, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the  template. Either wording is acceptable. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:19, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 12 May 2022 

message: A new interview with Strnad’s fiancee confirms that the cause of death was suicide and includes information about his final days: https://www.artsatl.org/moonlust-bassist-jenny-mac-mourns-death-of-black-dahlia-murders-trevor-strnad/ MaybeThisWillWork (talk) 08:00, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 31 July 2022 

message: Ryan Knight should still be considered a lead guitarist, both him and Brandon played solos at the most recent show. 31.205.6.55 (talk) 12:42, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: This is accurate, please update 172.58.109.163 (talk) 05:00, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lineup 

message: For the music video section:
Statutory Ape - Robbie Tassaro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIKuXnzuYGs
What A Horrible Night To Have a Curse - Robbie Tassaro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEACzoMJuMA
Necropolis - Robbie Tassaro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2qPN8ZN7U8 BobWiley42069 (talk) 04:18, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Music Video directors 

message: Hey all, Ryan knight plays lead guitar as well he is not just rhythm guitar this is inaccurate, him and Brandon play all their own respective solos and split the John k solos from the older album 172.58.109.163 (talk) 04:53, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 14:41, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 12 September 2023 

message: Ryan Knight – rhythm guitar, backing vocals (2022–present), lead guitar (2009–2016) should be changed to 
Ryan Knight – rhythm/lead guitar, backing vocals (2022–present), lead guitar (2009–2016)
Ryan Knight will be returning to the band as the rhythm guitarist.
Should be changed to
Ryan Knight will be returning to the band as the rhythm/lead guitarist. 172.58.109.163 (talk) 04:58, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inaccurate info