Talk:Adolf Anderssen

message: : The reason given for Andersson's improvement is the adaptation of the round-robin format in the 60s and 70s, but that's not the reason for his excellent tournament results at all!  In fact, Andersson (and he is the only world champion for which this is true, for a variety of reasons), actually continued improving his play until he was in his early fifties!  
There are sources saying he studied positional and endgame play (such as GM Yasser Seirawan's "Winning Chess Tactics"), but really, I'm a USCF expert, and it's very obvious for me looking at his games; after losing the match to Morphy, Andersson seriously re-dedicated himself to chess, and his play was markedly improved.  It still wasn't enough to beat a young Steinitz, but it explains his results against the much stronger players of the 1860s and 70s, something none of his contemporaries from the 50s were able to boast of.  
76.126.237.65 (talk) 02:38, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Later Tournament Results 

message: I've removed this:
:In 1850 he went over a 2600 Elo rating system as the first player.
Elo hadn't been born in 1850, and there was no rating system in use in Anderssen's  time. I imagine that what is meant is that somebody in recent years has done some calcuations and some guess work and come to the conclusion that if the Elo system had been in operation in the 19th century, Anderssen would be the first 2600+ player. If that's what's meant, that's what the article needs to say (with the name of who has worked this out, and preferably a source). --Camembert
:(incidentally, for all I know, it may have been Elo himself, in his The Rating of Chessplayers Past & Present - I just don't have a copy. --Camembert)
:: You are right.  I'll add it back to the article with a reference.  Bubba73 (talk), 18:09, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Elo 

message: I don't think this is an A class article because it doesn't seem to be complete enough.  There are sections on his bavkground and early life, then three tournaments.  I think it probably needs to be filled in.  Bubba73 (talk), 20:13, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree, therefore I rated it B. Alhough Anderssen's life was rather simple outside of tournaments. :-) --Ioannes Pragensis 20:18, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: not an "A" class

message: It's of course in Wroclaw, see among many other sources the English article from the (chess history) "Ken Whyld Association" (please read the article, it's all there). The other internet source has it wrong, sorry, probably because of the existing different cemetaries (in both cities) having an identical name. The former and the new grave are both on the former Oswitz cemetary, renamed after the war. Anderssen's grave was moved from its original place to the "honorary alley", given a plaque in different languages. Very nice gesture from the Polish chess federation that even renewed it after the first one had been stolen (see the ref. article on the KWA website). --DaQuirin (talk) 17:52, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: As I see, Wikipedia's Osobowicki Cemetery has moved from Warsaw to Wroclaw...  ;) --DaQuirin (talk) 18:08, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

text: Hi, please stop deleting my reference to www.findagrave.com this website has the information about him.  Thank you. Green Squares (talk) 19:04, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: What is on? You linked Deutsche Schachzeitung again (why?) and your added ref contains only one relevant (additional) new factoid - that turns out to be a mistake (about the grave being in Warsaw). Could you try to explain your edit? --DaQuirin (talk) 20:43, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

text: If this information is needed (for "Non-German, non-Polish readers"), I am fine with it. Though I think it odd (for encyclopedic reasons) to include a ref to an article - though it's an interesting one - that has obviously no direct link with Adolf Anderssen. So the info could maybe be better summed up in the text itself with a link to our Wrocław#Poland article where all this is presented in detail. --DaQuirin (talk) 20:35, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: One of WP's zillion style guideliens is that articles should be as free-standing as possible. Please reinstate the ref. -- Philcha (talk) 20:54, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This is exactly what I tried to explain. Please revert as you like, I quit for a while  - too much effort spent here for slow progress, as it seems, see above my nonsensical discussion about a misled ref... --DaQuirin (talk) 20:59, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Anderssen's grave

message: Adolf Anderssen#Tournament Results In the table, it appears someone misspelled one's name. It says 'Alexander Alexander', but I am almost sure nobody has a name in which the first and last names are identical. |haosys| 23:39, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Apparently it was true - here --Philcha (talk) 00:06, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Typo in tournament results 

message: Here's link from wiki.answers, only educated, selected people are allowed to edit here: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_did_Paul_Morphy_never_play_Wilhelm_Steinitz
Morphy was considered champion until 1860, in reality morphy was already best player in 1857 when he won american championship, remained topdog until death!
: 1860 ok http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl?page=15&pid=16002&eresult=
:Some policies, guidelines and conventions:
:*WP:V - this is so important that everyone uses the sort term and and expects others to understand it 
:*The same applies to WP:NPOV.
:*Signs your items on Talk pages. The usual way is to type in ~~~~. My signature at the end of this line is produced when I type in the same symbols. --Philcha (talk) 20:31, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Clarification on 1860

message: According to the article Anderssen didn't play competitive chess between 1862 and 1866, but chessgames.com has a large number of games with Gustav Neumann in that time period.  Nuemann's wikipedia page also doesn't mention a match with Anderssen in that time period.  Does anyone have any information about the circumstances of these games?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.198.103.27 (talk) 09:27, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Matches with Gustav Neumann in 1864-1866 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I don't think Fine's criticism is really justified. Anderssen certainly understood the importance of rapid development and piece co-ordination, that's why he was one of the leading players of his time. In any case Anderssen's "haphazard development" should not be presented as an encyclopedic fact, only as Fine's opinion. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 11:21, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Haphazard development 

message: The lead says his matches in 1861 and 1862 against Kolisch and Paulsen were World Championship matches. But there is no reference except Mark Weeks' Chess page, which I do not regard as a reliable source because it is just a collection of results by an amateur chess historian. Without a better reference, they should be removed from the lead.
Then the table says he lost a 24 game match (10-14) to Gustav Neumann in 1866. If so, surely that match is very significant, in fact a bigger loss than to Steinitz later that same year (6-8), after which some writers say Steinitz was unofficial world champion! So why does no one say Neumann was unofficial world champion after that match? Chessgames confirms they played 24 games in Berlin in 1866 , but Chessmetrics makes no mention of the games . I am not sure if I should mark them in the table as casual games, or just remove them altogether? Does anyone have any info on these games or matches at all? Adpete (talk) 01:18, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I actually quite like Mark Weeks, his research is excellent and well sourced (he'll often include scans from BCM etc). Personally I'm not averse to citing it in chess articles, but yes it is a self-published site. (So is Edward Winter's chesshistory.com). The distinction between casual games and "official" games was much more blurred back then, Anderssen lost a lot of games to lesser players like Berthold Suhle but how seriously was he taking these games? Were they considered "official"? We don't really know. In any case there was no "world champion", official or otherwise, so we should avoid that terminology where Anderssen is concerned. I tend to agree that the matches with Kolisch and Paulsen don't belong in the lead so if you want to remove them that's fine. That text was originally added by a banned editor (the lubek castling guy). MaxBrowne2 (talk) 02:11, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I like and trust Weeks' work too, but he doesn't usually give sources. His text here: https://www.mark-weeks.com/chess/w$a$$mix.htm (heading "World Chess Championship" followed by "1861-62 Adolf Anderssen Matches", and nothing else) is not sufficient to deem them WC matches, in my opinion. I have removed those matches from the lead, but will continue to look for more info on them. I think they belong back in the lead if they were regarded as unofficial WC matches in some sense. Adpete (talk) 03:35, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

text: p.s. I would say Edward Winter is higher up the reliability scale than Mark Weeks (at least in terms of WP:V and WP:RS), because he is a published journalist and author, and has some notable endorsers. He even has his own Wikipedia page: Edward Winter (chess historian). Adpete (talk) 03:40, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  WC "matches" 

message: And where did he get it from? Looking at the dates, he can hardly have known Anderssen... Double sharp (talk) 09:18, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Staunton attributes the quote to a contemporary (1858) interview with Max Lange, but frustratingly I haven't been able to find the original. Possibly it's a loose translation. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 00:38, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fine quote 

message: The title didn't exist. We can say he was regarded as the world's leading player, but the phrase "world champion" was not applied to him. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 03:58, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Can we please stop making "unofficial world champion" claims?