Talk:Popular Orthodox Rally

message: I would really appreciate it if you could direct me to where Wikipedia explains that it has the option to rename countries. In my understanding only "article naming should prefer what the greatest number of English speakers would most easily recognize". That's why even unrecognized countries use their unrecognized name in article names, but in other articles linking to that the official status is used. Furthermore, Wikipedia redirects FYROM link to the "Republic of Macedonia" page, a clear sign that it doesn't recognize only one name. 
I'm not editing it yet because i don't want to get in an editing war, especially with an admin. If you can direct me to where Wikipedia says there is a "standard name" for FYROM, or where it says that unrecognized names should be used inside articles and recognized names shouldn't, i would be more than happy to comply. 
Constantinos7 (talk) 17:31, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Macedonia (Future Perfect at Sunrise)

message: Since there's not enough space to answer the anonymous user's points in the edit summary, I will do so here in order to facilitate debate and consensus.
Anonymous writes: "it is generally agreed" is infered from one article? And in any case, this section is about the particular incident, not apologetics about the general nature of the party's character
There are no apologetics here, only an aim to balance the article in question from ideological biases, which seem to run rampant.  The fact of the matter is that no serious Greek political analyst has ever characterized Popular Rally as "fascist" or "nazi".  The only place I've ever heard such accusations emanate from are from the anarchist quarter (i.e., the same quarter that, among other things, also characterizes Marxist magazines such as Resalto as "Christiano-fascist").  If you happen to disagree with this fact then simply find credible sources that demonstrate your view rather than deleting sourced statements by political analysts that attest to this fact.  
As for the section itself, I don't believe it constitutes a controversy given that: a) there is no conclusive evidence that the individual who gave the Roman salute was even a member/sympathizer of the party and b) this incident is singular.  If Karatzaferis had given the Roman salute or if a vibrant fascist culture existed within the party then, yes, a controversy would definitely exist.  However, given that none of this exists, this minor incident is not only trivial but irrelevant, especially when one considers that it was officially denounced by the party and, since then, has never come up again anywhere.  That said, I personally don't care if the section remains or is removed.  However, if it does remain, then we are obligated to balance it in order to maintain a neutral point of view.
Anonymous writes: "yes", "but", "however", "nonetheless". Both viewpoints are sufficiently presented in this version of the section and there is no need for pov butchering
The text, in the form you left it, clearly implies (through omission of relevant information) that the the party is not only sympathetic to fascism but also protects its fascist members.  You cannot write that "neither Karatzaferis nor any of the other participants in LAOS's convention 'displayed the slightest reaction' at the gesture" and omit the fact that there were 2,500+ people in attendance.  The very article that is used to source this information makes it a point to mention this very important fact, so why are you hesitant to include it?
Anonymous writes: completely reverting deluge of pov edits. the Kathimerini article analyst, for example, specifically parallelizes LAOS with Lepen, in contrast to your assertions
As I wrote in the edit summary: "Re-read the source: nowhere does it state 'homosexuals, Jews and immigrants continue to be denounced as "black sheep" throughout LA.OS's campaigns'".  Here follows the relevant excerpt from the article:
“Judging from statements by (LAOS leader) Giorgos Karatzaferis, any lingering doubts can be removed. In the 2004 elections, alongside the ‘usual’ black sheep (such as Jews, Communists, homosexuals) Karatzaferis, like his French mentor, added immigrants. I think the fact that part of Greek society is openly following him — and their numbers are growing, not counting the silent minority who agree with him but still vote for major parties — allows us to speak of a ‘Greek-French axis.’”
Now this is what the text, in the way you left it, reads:
"However, political analysts note that despite proclamations to the opposite, homosexuals, Jews and immigrants continue to be denounced as "black sheep" throughout LA.OS's campaigns"
The source does not lay any basis for the personal views you are inserting into the article.  Nowhere in that article does it say that homosexuals, Jews, or immigrants "continue to be denounced as 'black sheep' throughout LA.OS's campaigns".  On the contrary, it states that they run as candidates in the party.  The use of the term "black sheep" is the author's and not Popular Rally's.  Further, if you look at other statements Karatzaferis has made (which I have provided in this very talk page), you'll see that he's voiced sentiments like "I don't like for people [homosexuals] to hide. When someone remains in the shadows it becomes demonized, when it comes into the light it becomes cushioned".  If you have credible information demonstrating that "homosexuals, Jews and immigrants continue to be denounced as 'black sheep' throughout LA.OS's campaigns", then by all means use it in the article.  But don't misconstrue sources because it's what you personally believe. 
All of that said, I must bring up the fact that when you reverted my edit here, you reverted all aspects of it (including sourced information on a totally different subject) and not just what you mentioned in your edit summary.  I ask that, in the future, you be more careful in what information you revert, taking care not to delete information that has nothing to do with your objections. Critias 14:28, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Reply to the anonymous editor (IP address 87.203.120.219, among others) in regards to recent edits

message: It is worth noting that Popular Orthodox Rally was renamed Popular Rally and that this is something that should be reflected in the article.  The newspaper Stochos published an article on 1 September 2005 that was titled "Karatzaferis Removed 'Orthodox' From His Party".  The article in question quoted Karatzaferis as saying that the reason for the change was because, "Many mischievous journalists call our party Laos [Λάος, with the stress on the "a"] and not Laos [Λαός, with the stress on the "o"] and so we were forced into renaming it".  The newspaper Eleftheros Kosmos also notes the change in an article published 16 October 2005, titled "How LA.O.S. Became LA.SY.".  It describes how, shortly after 2002, "Mr. G. Karatzaferis began, unilaterally and without worning, to change the character and the manner of the party, nastily perturbing his staff and supporters. [...] There were intense protests because [...] the archetypal designation (LA.O.S.) and the sign (cross) of the party were gone. [...] 'Coincidently' with the accession of Mr. M. Voridis, the party of Mr. G. Karatzaferis gained a double designation: a) the written Popular Orthodox Rally (LA.O.S.) and b) the verbal Popular Rally (LA.SY.) since henceforth that is how the party has been called by its leader and his associates".  Alpha Ena, the newspaper associated with the party has also run images on its front cover displaying the new name (i.e. "Popular Rally") from at least 3 September 2005 (and possibly earlier, though I am not certain). Critias 06:01, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Popular Orthodox Rally or Popular Rally?

message: In the member's list I changed the "georgiades bros " to "leonidas georgiades" since Adonis Georgiades was already mentioned...
Tbere 23:59, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Georgiades Bros

message: It is quite bizarre to note that at least two MPs of LAOS fly in the face of the party's homophobic and crypto-fascist stereotype:
#Vaitsis Apostolatos, a gayer-than-a-handbag-full-of-rainbows sex-therapist cum TV persona who is apparently the first openly homosexual member of the Greek parliament.
#Dimitra Arapoglou, a deaf-mute sign language teacher, who would have certainly been a media darling had she been elected by any other party. 
Both Apostolatos and Arapoglou are the type of people any true fascist would fantasize throwing of the Kaiadas cliff. So is LAOS the new Peace 'n' Love party of bleeding-hearts and artists? NOT! I can think of a few of its other MPs would certainly not allow that :) But it certainly appears that it is a highy heterogenous party whose electorate largely represents protest votes. Rastapopoulos 14:27, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A multi-culti party after all? 

message: Is it possible to add to the title section that some organizations call it People's Orthodox Alarm? Source: http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/view/31365/greeks_would_back_pasok_syr_alliance
87.219.85.162 (talk) 16:31, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Even when it sounds strange, 'Alarm' is the correct translation. I changed it inside the article, but I think also the page name should be changed itself. Maybe it's worth mentioning, that it is translated wrongly into 'Rally' by some media and also by google, likely due to another meaning of 'Synagermós' in ancient greek. The meaning in modern greek definitely is 'Alarm'.
195.167.65.123 (talk) 11:54, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some organizations call it People's Orthodox Alarm 

message: The article says:
:Of the ten Popular Orthodox Rally candidates who entered the parliament in 2007, two are considered to be part of the "nationalist bloc"..
This raises the obvious question of what blocs (if any) the remaining 8 are part of. Are there other identifiable ideological blocs within the party's parliamentary group? --Delirium (talk) 10:17, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  parliamentary blocs 

message: Some of the most prominent members such as Vorides,Georgiades and Plevris have done pro-fascist comments.Also they have participated in neo-fascist groups-read the template citing.Finally they advocate ideas such as anti-semitism and anti-communism,and they support the well-known fascist regime of Metaxas.Many parliamentary representatives have been also admirers,even Georgios Karatzaferis of the Military Junta of 1967. Finally members such as Velopoulos,have endorsed white-nationalist and greek-nationalist occultism, such as the Myth of the Nephilim and staff like these.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.74.105.226 (talk) 14:55, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neo-fascist tendencies 

message: In the platform of the Popular Orthodox Rally(L.A.O.S) one of the points state. 
-Ban immigration from outside the European Union and deport all illegal immigrants.
Does this apply to the Greek diaspora in countries such as U.S.A, Australia, Canada and other diaspora that are not in the EU?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Soccershoes1 (talk • contribs) 04:05, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: There is virtually no immigration from those countries you mentioned. LA.O.S. most likely means immigration from the Middle East, Southeastern Asia and Africa. – Kosm1fent 04:46, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Platform 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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