Talk:Paraphilia

message: Shouldn’t this page include the possibility of resolving Paraphilias through operant conditioning or classical conditioning? Byulwwe (talk) 09:49, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: It could, but we need a source for it.  Preferably a medical textbook or peer-reviewed journal article.  Have one?Legitimus (talk) 13:34, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Operant conditioning 

message: As the (very small) article is due to be deleted, copying here in case it is of use:
:Clown porn is an acknowledged, burgeoninghttps://www.buzzfeed.com/benhenry/clown-porn "After The Killer Clown Craze, There's Been An Increase In Searches For Clown Porn" (by Ben Henry at buzzfeed.com, 15 October 2016), fetish with females 33% more likely to search for it than males.https://www.cinemablend.com/pop/1566460/apparently-clown-porn-is-a-thing-and-its-getting-way-more-popular "Apparently Clown Porn Is A Thing And It's Getting Way More Popular" (By Adrienne Jones of cinemablend.com, last updated October 15, 2016 
Martinevans123 (talk) 22:52, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Sources aren't that good, can see why it was deleted. Nothing WP:MEDRS here. Crossroads -talk- 05:24, 11 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clown porn 

message: Nowadays "sexual perversion" and "sexual deviation" only have an historical and cultural value (this can also be deduced from the corresponding source), so they need to be contextualized. Moreover there's also a strong negative preconception behind these names and this makes even more important to give them a context.
Digressivo (talk) 20:47, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it'd be okay to move those terms out of the lead. Acidsetback (talk) 05:55, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. "Perversion" and "deviation" are both value-laden words, and they also don't really seem to match the latest psychiatric consensus laid out by the DSM-5. (Though I'm not really qualified to say that part.) FuwaFuwaDL (talk) 00:51, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

text:  Also agree. In the flip side, deviation does have a valid, non value-laden sense in statistics, but that is not how it was being used here, so may also safely be removed to Terminology. Mathglot (talk) 09:40, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: To quickly follow-up here, as part of depathologizing this page (as is consistent with the DSM-5 and ICD-11) I have removed both of these terms from the lead. However, they are still mentioned in the history sub-section. Arguably there is more than can be done here, but it's a start. FuwaFuwaDL (talk) 22:27, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Remove "sexual perversion" and "sexual deviation" from alternative names and move them to Terminology section 

message: This article mentions almost every paraphilia so prevalence of them is appropriate. The Epidemiology section has the sentence "Sexual masochism has been found to be the most commonly observed paraphilia in women, with approximately 1 in 20 cases of sexual masochism being female" so including prevalence of zoophilia or pedophilia is equal. Andythegrump seems to be hunting my edits and only permitting what he desires to be in articles. Foorgood (talk) 01:02, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I can simply add the sentence, "the accuracy of his report has been disputed by some" JUST like it's stated in the Zoophilia article. You must stop employing double standard.Foorgood (talk) 01:05, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: At this point, given that you have repeatedly been told that Kinsey's estimate have been disputed, your insistence that this particular book (why this one? why are you spamming it everywhere) be cited in the way it is looks more and more like intentional disruption. Furthermore, you grossly misrepresented what the second source, on pedophilia, actually said. You are clearly out of your depth on such subject matter - leave it to people who have a clue. AndyTheGrump (talk) 01:11, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Your personal attacks won't amount to a basis for this informations exclusion. Your griping against a Bloomsbury book which is a top source that is welcome and used all over Wikipedia is not a basis for it's exclusion. What you are doing is employing a DOUBLE STANDARD for Kinsey's report- you allow it on the Zoophilia page but not here with the SAME DISCLAIMER stating "the accuracy of his report has been disputed by some". What you are doing is only accepting what you want in the articles and not allowing others to add detailed improvements.Foorgood (talk) 01:16, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not 'griping against a Bloomsbury book'. I'm griping against a Wikipedia contributor who Google-mines random stuff, and then shoe-horns it into multiple articles after having it explained that Kinsey's estimates have been widely disputed. And that the dispute needs better explanation than a mere assertion that it exists. What exactly is your obsession with this one source? Why are you so insistent on citing it when there are better sources available? If it weren't for the fact that you clearly haven't read it, I'd assume there was a conflict of interest... AndyTheGrump (talk) 01:28, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I've recently already overwhelmingly won a top reputable source dispute here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Survey_(GC's_WRD/WCD/ARDA_&_PT's_GRF). You are continuing to gripe about a source that is AS VALID as your source on the Zoophilia page (source #9) which discusses the percentages so why do you continue to remove this top source that discusses the total amounts?! That is a DOUBLE STANDARD. Wikipedia is about the accumulation of various reliable sources not choosing just one that you like and removing others. It is already stated that it is disputed but that didnt stop you from mentioning the percentages on the Zoophilia page. You are only allowing what your opinion prefers while  simply telling me to "get lost" and "get an F***ing clue". I will not stoop to your grumpy level.Foorgood (talk) 01:35, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prevalence of paraphilias 

message: please change this odd phrasing! doesn't make sense to me. 2A02:8109:B6BF:80BC:39D4:1050:CC50:2D5E (talk) 05:42, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  non-normative relations to the Oedipal complex. 

message: Both the DSM-5 (2013) and the ICD-11 (2022) have taken key steps to depathologize paraphilias by drawing a clear distinction between paraphilic/atypical sexual interests and "paraphilic disorders". 
The quick-and-dirty summary in both cases being that simply having a paraphilia is not indicative of poor mental health and does not constitute a psychiatric disorder, and that the term "paraphilic disorder" should be used to refer to a specific circumstance in which the existence of a paraphilia causes significant distress or the potential for other harm.
But as things stand right now, this article is heavily medicalized, loosely using terms like "perversion", "disorder", "diagnosis", "management", "epidemiology", and generally presenting the concept of paraphilia as a medical disorder. 
In light of those updated international psychiatric guidelines, as well as wikipedia editing guidelines about neutrality and accuracy, I'd like to suggest that this page be edited to clearly reflect the current psychiatric consensus, the differences between "paraphilias" and "paraphilic disorders" (which can probably make up its own section) and the general social/medical movement towards depathologization of atypical sexual interests. FuwaFuwaDL (talk) 16:38, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Though there probably isn't enough content to justify doing so right now, I want to amend this suggestion to also suggest that we eventually break the section on "paraphilic disorders" into its own article (which can be appropriately summarized and linked to here, of course.) FuwaFuwaDL (talk) 22:15, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Paraphilias" vs "paraphilic disorders" and the depathologization of atypical sexual interests.