Talk:Royal Order of the Intare

message: I attempted to place a footnote to the second sentence "Since 3 January 1998 ..." to the reference "Heydel-Mankoo, Rafal. Royal Order of the Lion of Rwanda. World Orders of Knighthood & Merit. Guy Stair Sainty (editor) and Rafal Heydel-Mankoo (deputy editor). United Kingdom: Burke's Peerage & Gentry. 2 Vol. (2100 pp)p. 767. "
However, I do not seem to understand the correct notation. Could someone please correct this link item?
Royalhistorian (talk) 09:15, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Error

message: This article is headed for a major editing or outright deletion, due to several (terminal?) problems.  First, there is no primary source cited for the claim that such an order even exists.  The only source it provides is apparently for a different Order entirely -- the Royal Order of the Lion of Rwanda -- but even that citation is to a source that almost no one has access to.  Without any excerpt provided from that source, it may well not be a valid source at all.  Second, there is no evidence that such a claimed "order" is notable, even if it exists.  Third, the article claims that the fons honorum of the order is "King Kigeli V of Rwanda", but Kigeli was king for only 18 months and was deposed in 1961, so he hasn't been king for more than a half-century.  I presume that, having lived in the US for more than 20 years and being on government assistance, Kigeli is an American citizen and as such would be are barred from being "king" of anywhere, as well as being barred from granting memberships in "royal orders".  Fourth, the article claims "Since 3 January 1998, King Kigeli V of Rwanda has affirmed right to bestow the order..."  What was it that between 1961 and 1998 prevented Kigeli from bestowing membership in the Order?  Fifth, an article in The Economist states "King Kigeli V Ndahindurwa of Rwanda lost his throne in 1961. He now lives in social housing in Oakton, Virginia, surviving on handouts from well-wishers. But he has a business sideline, too. The orders and titles of nobility he issues do not have anything as plebeian as a price tag. But the recipients (70-odd so far) are 'asked for donations', according to his 'secretary-general', Alex Montague, a financial adviser in Miami. Cash payments usually range from $1,000 to $8,000..." http://www.economist.com/news/international/21586844-people-still-yearn-aristocratic-titles-some-buy-them-honours-and-offers  Another article in The Washingtonian about Kigeli states "The only people with real power or money Kigeli sees these days are those seeking knighthoods. In 1998, he revived the Order of the Lion, first granted by his late half-brother, King Mutara. More recently, Kigeli introduced a series of new orders—of the drum, the crown, and the crested crane, all icons in the royal coat of arms—when it became clear they might appeal to benefactors.  'We've seen donations anywhere from $1,000 to $8,000, but the average is $3,000 to $5,000,' says Alex Montague, a financial adviser in Miami who processes the requests as the king’s current secretary-general." http://www.washingtonian.com/articles/people/a-king-with-no-country/index.php  Clearly, this is a straightforward cash-for-honors business run by an American citizen.  Finally, there are no primary sources cited for the claimed "notable members" of this "order", so there's no reason to believe that they actually are members, but some of those listed are notorious collectors of self-styled orders, which further discredits the notion that this "order" is legitimate.   And remember: the onus is upon those who assert this "order's" existence and legitimacy to support it with primary sources, it isn't upon skeptics to disprove it.  If WP:N can't be satisfied and reputable sources are not provided, I'll propose this article for deletion. Bricology (talk) 10:47, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Major editing or deletion imminent