Talk:Theodore Roosevelt Jr.

message: : "He married his childhood sweetheart, <U>Eleanor</U> Butler Alexander, on June 20, 1910."
Shouldn't he be theodore roosevelt the third, since his father was the second? Wikiwarlock 04:47, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Jr. vs. III

message: Did they call his wife Eleanor Roosevelt? What an interesting coincidence! -- Toytoy 02:26, Oct 22, 2004 (UTC)
 
Yes, Ted's wife was called Eleanor Roosevelt. During THE Eleanor Roosevelt's campaign against her first cousin, Ted's Eleanor found not only Eleanor's means of campaigning displeasing but also the fact the two of them had the same name and that voters would think that his wife was campaigning against him. 10:58 2 May 2006 (UTC)
One of the pictures has a caption that says he died less than a month after D-Day.  But if he died on July 12 and D-Day was June 6, that is over a month.
Don't be picky :P Henners91 07:13, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Eleanor Roosevelt, wife/cousin?

message: It may be difficult to maintain NPOV, but Teddy Sr. and Jr's MoHs were both extremely political, and IMO that fact should be addressed.  (Teddy Sr.'s award was one of the last things Bill Clinton did in office, presenting the gong to TR's grand-nephew, IIRC, 100 years after the event.)  Teddy Jr. was a very popular officer, and certainly his name did not hurt the campaign to give him the award.  But in all objectivity, neither award was merited because neither action was remotely "above & beyond."  TR Sr. was a regimental commander who commanded his regiment, period.  Jr. was an asst. division cdr. doing what BGs do.  If anyone deserved an MoH for actions "below and beyond" it was Norman Cota, asst. cdr. of the 29th Div., who performed almost every function expected of 2nd lts. up to BGs, on Omaha Beach--a far, far tougher situation than Utah.
: Correction on who Ted's medal was presented to. It was presented to TR's great-grandson, Tweed Roosevelt with several other great grandsons, various cousins and Dr. John Gable, Director of the Theodore Roosevelt Association, who had helped support the push with historicl information. 
:Re Norm Cota -  I understand that there has been an organized  move to get Gen Cota the recognition he deserves for his actions at D-Day. SimonATL 12:42, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As to the politics, There were both personal as WELL as political considerations re Ted's MOH,  - Agree on the comparison of Ted and Cota (who was, by the way, a cousin of the Roosevelts). Omaha beach, indeed, was a far tougher situation that Utah.  But consider this - just HOW much information did Ted have that opposition-wise, the situation was much more difficult on Omaha than Utah did Ted have?  Ted was on the 1st wave at Utah. Norm Cota was on the second wave at Ohama.  Political and family considerations - If Ted had NOT died weeks after D-Day, being a hard core Republican, it is UNlikely that FDR would have backed a MOH recommendation for Ted on the part of its sponsors.  On an inner Roosevelt family perspective.  There had been an enormous rift between FDR and Eleanor, on one hand, and Ted and Alice Roosevelt, over Eleanor's effective blocking of Ted's success in the NY govenor campaign when Eleanor literally drove around from one appearance of Ted on the stump, with a tea pot on a car supplied by the democrats successfully (but UNfairly, as Ted and his brother Archie helped to UNcovered the scandal) linking Ted to the Teapot Dome Scandal.  This activity by Eleanor undoubtedly significantly hurt Ted's chances for success in New York.  Now, with Ted dead, and any political threat from him removed, supporting the MOH on his behalf CERTAINLY must have gone a LONG way to repair the damage, hurt and bad feelings between the Hyde Park and Oyster Bay Roosevelts. SimonATL 12:42, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Medal of Honor

message: On editor removed my description of Gen George Patton's "brashness, impetuosity, arrogance and a self-promoting style" shameless POV. While I actually admire much about Patton, can you list even ONE modern reputable professional historian or Patton biographer who does NOT consider Patton "brash, impetous, arrogant and self-promoting?" The evidence beyond my mere opinion is incredible. Patton himself spoke of these aspects of his personality. Please defend your points that this characterization of him is NOT simply common knowledge of anyone who has read 3-4 biographies. Hey, it gave the man color. I suggest you read both his own biography as well as 2-3 that are out there. I admire the guy's so-called good points but don't make excuses for the other less "friendly" aspects of his character. If you read several biographies of Ted Jr, you WILL see that he WAS, in fact, a soldier's soldier - a HECK of lot more than Omar Bradley, whom I've come to realize was NOT what he portrayed himself to be. Look at THAT man's pre-WWII record. SimonATL 12:42, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you referring to these edits by any chance ([1], [2])? Can you please tell me for example how you know that "Ted" was "a soldier's soldier"? Or that "U.S. Army Chief of Staff George C. Marshall saw in Ted the kind of intelligence and aggressive instinct that would be needed as a new generation of young Americans, by the millions, went off to war largely untested by combat."? We are writing an encyclopaedia, not a Mills and Boon romance novel. No offence, but please familiarise yourself with e.g. WP:NPOV, WP:Reliable Sources etc etc etc. and then we can discuss it again. Those edits were blatantly your POV and had absolutely nothing by way of citation to back them up (not that such intrinsically POV material can ever really be sourced anyway). Any reasonable Wikipedia editor will remove this sort of nonsense on sight, as I did. I defy you to find any experienced editor who would do anything but giggle at that kind of prose, and I mean no offence by that, you are obviously invested in the article and no doubt have a lot to offer. But not with that kind of material. Badgerpatrol 12:56, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Personally, I must agree with Simon. It's said that his brashness and such was what made him the leader he was- the leader that took risks, didn't wait around for orders, but got out and did them himself. A professional which supports this is the respected author Stephen Ambrose, who mentions 2 excellent accounts of these traits in Citizen Soldiers- Patton saved the 101st in  Bastogne (the story being as soon as he heard word of the counter-offensive, he told his generals to change directions and fight to the north and west, before given the command, getting it 2 days later, and already having his forces only 2 more days away from attacking the southern shoulder of the buldge) and of his brilliant offensive in Operation Cobra where he pushed his troops 600 miles in 2 weeks, with the help of a few other allied units. Also, the author Keith D. Dickson, a lt-colonel in the US army and professor of military studies at the joint forces staff college, national defense university, says of Patton in his book on WWII "He was ruthless in carrying out his plans and sought to move rapidly against th eenemy. He was at his best in exploiting enemy weaknesses and maneuvering rapidly. Patton was so emotionally tied to soldierly ideals sometimes he lashed out  at those who he believed did not live up to those ideals.... Patton chafed at restrictions placed on him due to political decisions and didn't hesitate to share his opinion with superiors, specifically Alllied Supreme Commander Eisenhower and American General Omar Bradley."--LtWinters 22:37, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What a pleasant surprise to see you here. So, to clarify, you think that the text I removed ,  is encyclopaedic and conforms to WP:NPOV, WP:SOURCE, WP:V, etc.? Badgerpatrol 23:40, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it is brilliant to see you as well. Yes, I must say, I see it  as fair and truthful, because although it would normally be considered original research, I must say because it is in many of Patton's biographies, those certainly are common traits about him. However, I must disagree with part of what Simon was saying. The 2nd link you give me I would say is perfectly fair, common and widely documented and puplished knowledge, and even puts Ted in a good light, but the 1st link, although true, I think should be included, but not in that sort of way. He was brash, but brashness could be defined and misinterpreted as aggresivly rude, instead of agressiveness. So I would support putting in the 1st link with a few changes, and I would enthustiastically (or however you spell it) support the 2nd link. --LtWinters 00:29, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Per WP:NPOV WP:OR and WP:SOURCE these statements need to be sourced and they need to be expressed in neutral and encyclopaedic language which is "formal, impersonal, and dispassionate" (WP:BETTER). If you agree with the first link, find me a source that says that Roosevelt was "a soldier's soldier" and quote it directly. If you agree with the second link, find me a source (i.e. Marshall's own diaries or someone else's personal recollections of a dialogue with him) where he says "I see in Ted Roosevelt the kind of intelligence and aggressive instinct that will be needed..." yada yada yada. If you can, fine, it's still poorly phrased crap that adds nothing to the article, but at least it's sourced. But if you can't find suitable sources...then the material cannot go in. I'm afraid that's how Wikipedia works. Badgerpatrol 01:05, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That will be Simon's perogative. I am simply supporting his claims. --LtWinters 02:05, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't dispute his claims re Patton- that wasn't the shameless POV I originally noted. It was the asinine rose-tinted "Ted was a soldier's soldier" nonsense that I particularly took umbrage with (although that is not to say that the Patton claims do not have to sourced too in themselves- "verifiability, not truth"). Badgerpatrol 02:27, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Patton accurately characterized

message: A distant cousin to Ted Roosevelt Jr., Norman D. Cota's friendship with him would grow during The North African Campaign, when Cota served as Chief of Staff of The 1st. Division, under him and Division Commander, Major Gen. Terry Allen. They would team up again when Cota was given the rank of Brigadier General, and was assistant commander of the 29th. Division, that took Omaha Beach, that was next to Utah Beach during the D-Day Operations. Both Cota and Roosevelt's spouses, Constance Martha Alexander-Cota and Eleanore Butler-Rossevelt were also distant cousins.
71.135.229.211 (talk) 01:19, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Roosevelt's Relation To Cota

message: This article is almost entirely unsourced.  It needs citations throughout. It is also full of POV statements. In other words, it needs a lot of cleaning up. --EECEE 17:47, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Unsourced material

message: Having recently read many of the available sources on Ted Roosevelt's life and accomplishments, I must say that this is one of the best Wikipedia articles I've ever read. So far as I am able to judge, it is spot-on, both in terms of accuracy and capturing the man's character. I don't see POV. It does need more documentations. But congratulations to the contributors for getting the big picture right.Bryan 23:30, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've edited the article to somewhat clarify the present uncertainty here about the place of burial. Possibly someone more knowledgeable than I will clarify this further. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 22:51, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: This is a fine article!

message: Meanwhile, Roosevelt's son, Quentin Roosevelt II named after his uncle, would land in Normandy at Omaha Beach with the 1st. Division. It is the only known occurence at both beaches that both father and son would be involved. 
:Source? Gordonofcartoon (talk) 03:27, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Reference?

message: I read in "The Lion's Pride," a book about Teddy Roosevelt and his family by Edward Renehan, that Ted, Jr. was the most decorated soldier of WW II.  I always thought that Audie Murphy was the most decorated, but maybe he meant most decorated and surviving soldier.  Can anyone confirm this as fact?98.170.196.173 (talk) 01:41, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Decorations

message: His father is Theodore Roosevelt, Jr. and his grandfather is Thoedore Roosevelt, Sr. He has a son name Theodore Roosevelt, IV RM MARTIN (talk) 03:52, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name should be Thodore Roosevelt, III  

message: The article states that Gen. Roosevelt was the only general to land with the first wave. I have no reliable data, but I understood that General Norman L Gotha, assistant division commander of US 29th division, came ashore with the first wave on Omaha beach; I cannot find a reliable source. Any confirmation/refutation would be welcome. My understanding comes only from the film "The Longest Day", which is based on first-hand accounts but obviously cannot be wholly trusted.--Anthony Bradbury"talk" 13:52, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Overlord landings 

message: What I wrote and on a couple of occasions has been removed and me putting it back together:
"Although he did not seek it, Ted was mentioned as a potential candidate for the 1936 Republican presidential nomination. If Ted had gotten the 1936 Republican presidential nomination he would have face off against his Democratic incumbent cousin Franklin at the general election"
The removal is due to it not being sourced but I would point out that it is consistent to what it is said at the 1936 Republican National Convention article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936_Republican_National_Convention
"Other potential candidates included ....Theodore Roosevelt, Jr."
There was no citation on him being a potential candidate in that article and therefore that statement should be in his article on the basis of consistency.
122.108.156.100 (talk) 08:55, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  1936 Presidential election 

message: This edit caught my eye. It changed an unsupported assertion Archibald Roosevelt to name Archibald Roosevelt instead, saying "D-Day: Quentin Roosevelt was killed during WWI when he was shot during aerial combat. Only Ted, Archie, and Kermit survived". I noticed that the article about Archie does not mention this, that it says that he reentered service for WW-II as a lieutenant colonel, and that it says that Archie was Ted's brother -- not his son. I looked around a little for a supporting source, and came up with , which says (possibly incorrectly):
That contradicts information in the article about Quentin, which agrees with the edit summary quoted above that he was killed in WW-I, and which also asserts that Quentin was Ted's brother -- not his son. I've placed a  tag following this unsupported assertion about Archie (or was it Quentin?). It looks like the article about Archie might need editing as well, depending on what other sources say about all this -- perhaps Ten had sons named Quentin and/or Archie who have no WP articles as well as brothers with those names who do have WP articles -- if so, some clarification about this is needed here. Wtmitchell  (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 00:07, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Ted had a son named Quentin (who was Quentin II) as well as a brother named Quentin. Anything WWII-related mentioning the name "Quentin Roosevelt" refers to Ted's son since Quentin I died in WWI. Snuggums (talk / edits) 00:48, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quentin and Archie 

message: No Combat Infantryman’s Badge? His son, Quentin, had one. 2A00:23C5:E097:5D00:2D5C:6D3:5D4C:6E70 (talk) 00:08, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  CIB