Template talk:Infobox Christian leader/Archive 1

message: I don't pretty much care whether or not Latin is used or the office the person held was prominently displayed at the header of the infobox.  You asked what my intentions were.  Just to make my intentions clear with the new infobox, (1) I just wanted to make the infobox look nicer than it was and (2) add it to all the papal articles for consistency.  The use of Latin was discussed at length by other Wikipedia editors somewhere else, I'm not sure where.  You might want to discuss that decision with them.
I'm pretty much opposed to the use of Latin because it's sometimes redundant for most of the popes (i.e., English "Pope Pius XII" is Latin "Pius PP. XII").  I don't see the point of using both but it was already on the old infoboxes and that's why I added it originally to this new infobox.  Eleassar777 noted that there was indeed a compromise to use it.  All in all I pretty much don't care.
As a Wikipedia administrator, my only concern is that articles are aesthetically pleasing, have the basic information presented and whatever other information added is factually correct.  I pretty much let concensus dictate design of infoboxes and photo layout.  If they have concensus, I don't care.  --Gerald Farinas 15:08, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: That's fine. I feel exactly the same. Thanks for explaining. Grace Note 16:48, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Latin name

message: Changes made to the template by User:Ed g2s kinda whacked out the pope articles.  They're not all uniform anymore.  Could someone fix them, or revert the change until someone goes through all the articles to fix it? --James Easton 01:27, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Could you be a bit more specific than "whacked out", they look pretty uniform to me. ed g2s • talk 01:43, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Ed g2s changes

message: ====Gerald's design, influenced TheCoffee's work elsewhere====
#FearÉIREANN 22:35, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Vote on which design to use

message: #FearÉIREANN 22:35, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Gerald's design, influenced TheCoffee's work elsewhere

message: # Don't know if I'm too late here... — Dan | Talk 01:25, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: ed_g2s version

message: # We don't vote on everything. Indeed, except in extremely exceptional (aha! ;-)) circumstances, we shouldn't be voting ever. This is a mind-numbingly stupid vote to have, given that overall design decisions are, umm, not to be made on template pages. James F. (talk) 09:42, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Votes are a waste of time and inherently foolish 

message: Per the vote taken here (7-0 in favor of the "Gerald" version), the lack of further comments, and the discussion on infobox talk, I have reverted back to the above version, and changed the heading color to the one chosen on WP:Infobox. Bratschetalk random 21:55, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)
I fully approve. Good move. FearÉIREANN 23:17, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I didn't want this to linger in vote/consensus limbo forever, as some votes do. Bratschetalk random 23:27, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)
The papal pages look superb with the new box. I've just been in a few making some changes to a couple of papal pages and was struck by how good they look visually. Wikipedia really has a nice design throughout. Not alone do we have some articles of superb quality, but they are brilliantly laid out. I'm proud to be associated with such a project. FearÉIREANN 23:46, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

text: I agree, it looks brilliant in use, JPII is the first one that comes to mind.  It's all about a nice clean useful layout and not something that is cobbled together like the old one was, a little bit of style.  Personally, I can't believe that someone like me, who comes from a long line of Orange Irish would be this concerned with the Pope infobox! :P  --Wgfinley 23:50, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I still disapprove. You have still yet to show why this infobox shouldn't use the standard stylesheet styling other than "we think it's prettier". ed g2s • talk 23:52, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

text: More info - the toccolours style does not match with other skins where the table of contents is color #F7F8FF (basically a blue gray) - and the regular gray (#F9F9F9) doesn't match very well it is almost the same color but just looks off. So I am convinced that we should stay without using toccolours as it is 1) not aesthetically pleasing, and 2) does not match skins other than Monobook. (An interesting aside is that browsers with 256 colors will render the background white (#FFFFF) - the same as in the new infobox.) Additionally the fonts in the new infobox are better for communicating the text Trödel|talk 01:30, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Final Version 

message: I was alerted to this discussion regarding the new design of the popes' infoboxes. I will admit that the design was originally mine (at least the header, the left border and the horizontal rule separating the images from the infobox facts). See the original usage way back in 2003 here.
I designed it because I really, really find the country infoboxes too ugly. I'm not a professional graphic designer (just an amateur), and decided to "improve" the country infoboxes, first with my country's article. At first I was disturbed by the fact that I'm using inline styles to coerce the look I wanted. But I decided that eventually Templates will be implemented which should mitigate the cons somewhat.
So when Templates were implemented, I then took my proposed design and made it into a template for the articles on my country's provinces. TheCoffee then took the design and made it into a template for the articles on my country's presidents, but with an additional table. Apparently, Gerald then decided to use the same design on the pope's infoboxes.
Anyway, that's mostly the whole story. If you're taking me to task for not following the styles of the other infoboxes, just take a look at all the infoboxes in existence. There is no common style or color scheme at all (unless you consider tables with borders on, a common style). I approve of the new look, although I'm biased, of course :-) --seav 15:47, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the background - I think it is best to continue to conclude this discussion over at the MediaWiki talk:Monobook.css and Wikipedia:Infobox. Thank you for creating a very attractive (and not fancy) infobox for use with people. Hopefully we can get a more attractive style implemented there - in the mean time we should continue with this attractive solution. Trödel|talk 16:02, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Original basis of Gerald's new design 

message: To curtail further edit-warring until a decision is reached, I've protected this template. Since I don't want to put the notice on the template itself:

— Dan | Talk 21:26, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protected 

message: Apparently, the date given for the "term start" is the date a pope was elected. How about adding also the date of a pope's enthronement? The table at  might help... Lupo 07:18, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Term start 

message: "Hi, left line!  How's it going?  Where's your friend, right line?  Oh, he ran away?  I'm sorry to hear that.  Hopefully you can find your right line friend soon, because by yourself, you look unbalanced and ugly.  Take care!" -- Quasipalm
:As I see it, there are two issues:
:*What should the standard infobox class look like?
:*Should the Pope articles (or indeed, any and and all articles) use the standard infobox class?
:My opinion, for whatever it may be worth, is that the first question should be addressed, but not here, and the answer to the second question is an unqualified "yes". -- BBlackmoor (talk) 17:56, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Is there someway we can get an infobox derived style incorporated in the stylesheet - that inherits from infobox and leaves off the borders - so that if someone makes customiziations it will look that way - I am assuming the missing borders will still be missing unless the user customizes the new style. That way we can have the best of both worlds and those that dislike the missing borders can overwrite that in their personal stylesheet. Trödeltalk 21:19, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  I would say the best solution would be for those that specifically like the missing borders to customize.  Generally, we wouldn't want styles added to the main stylesheet which only benefit one single template.  Could you imagine the chaos if every template's fans wanted that?  The main stylesheet should hold good generic classes that apply very broadly. So far, this pope infobox seems like a one-off which not a lot of support either way.  -- Netoholic @ 21:37, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  This is why I gave up on this last March - when I tried to figure out where to go to get some kind of help I was told - don't bother. I don't want all the boxes without borders - personally I think the biography infoboxes look better that way - I don't see a problem with a biography style. I disagree there would be chaos - a limited number of variations would be good for creaters of infoboxes to use, but a one size fits all seems anti-wiki. Trödeltalk 22:01, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Uglybox

message: To all editors: Please do not keep undoing other people's edits without discussing them first. This is considered impolite and unproductive. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia under the three-revert rule, which states that nobody may revert an article to a previous version more than three times in 24 hours. (Note: this also means editing the page to reinsert an old edit. If the effect of your actions is to revert back, it qualifies as a revert.) Thank you. ≈ jossi  ≈ t • @ 19:50, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  3RR Warning 

message: Would anyone object to me adding another line to the infobox which would place "Other Popes named XXXXX" at the bottom of the infobox (before the footnotes)? This would be an optional line and thus would not make a mess on popes with unique papal names. I would personally go through and add this becuase I don't know what script can use the page name minus the word Pope at the beginning and the Roman numerals at the end. I have seen some of the articles include a "See also" section linking to the disambiguation page for that Pope's name which I think looks kind of silly. This would be much easier. If you disagree with this addition, please just remove it, but contact me. savidan(talk) (e@) 23:20, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Added but I couldn't figure out how to center it across the whole template. If someone else could do that I'd be much obliged. savidan(talk) (e@) 23:34, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other Popes named XXX 

message: Because there are a disturbance about "papacy began date" maybe it's better to insert to the Infobox also the "Consecration Date" (Crowning, installation, enthroned, or something what).Kask 08:12, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Consecration Date 

message: Would it be possible to add a field for the pope's feast day? Loyola 07:25, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Feast Day

message: A portrait of a pope that doesn't give an artist's name, or date the manuscript illumination or tell whatever the reader is seeing, is jejune. Any illustrated book for grown-ups identifies what its illustrations are of. How can captions, which are essential info, be entered into this very bulky and intrusive "info"box? Would it be as simple as inserting "| caption = |" in the formula above? --Wetman (talk) 20:08, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Captions to the images 

message: I believe that once again this template needs redesigning. I don't know if anybody has noticed but all of the other christian religous figures templates such as bishops, arhcbihsops, cardinals... have all had a recent makeover by myself in an attempt to modernize the templates. The template is the last one and will be styled as all the others with of course the additional requirments and modifications needed for a pope. Really this is just an enquiry to see if there is anything else that anybody would like added to the template so that when I 'rebuild' it it will be there waiting. I hope you like the new template when it is comleted. The Quill (talk) 13:23, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Design 

message: Today's revision causes significant display problems on certain browsers/monitors, creating large amount of whitespace at the top of the article. On Pope John Paul II, for example, the page was completely blank except for the Infobox! I've reverted to the stable, pre-May 28 version until this can be straightened out. JGHowes talk -  03:18, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, we had the same problem with Pius XI, big time with Pius XII, Paul VI, to name a few. I am sure this can be solved and I appreciate all the effort which go into this template. Thank's--Ambrosius007 (talk) 08:34, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Problem with May 29 revision 

message: This used to have a field for a Pope's birth name/pre-papal name. Most Popes have that laid out in the template already. However, it was removed at some point, and I can't find a reason why. Could someone add the "Birth Name" field back in? Or is there a reason for its removal?--Tim Thomason 03:24, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: That attribute is still present in the code and I've checked the code path to make sure it should be working: can you give an example page where it isn't working? Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 09:30, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Every page. The example at the top of this talk page doesn't show his birth name. Any pope I check doesn't have it in the infobox, even though they all have it in the coding (Pope John Paul II, Pope Benedict VIII, Pope John II, Pope Pius X, you name it). It seems to be in the coding on this page, but is it somehow connected to "Infobox Christian leader"? It seems to show up on other "Christian Leaders" but not any popes.--Tim Thomason 06:45, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Not sure why it's showing up on other Christian leaders, because these edits seem to have broken it everywhere (there can't be both a "header19" and a "label19". Simple to fix, which I'll do now. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward: not at work) - talk 08:44, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:   Verified at Pope John Paul II. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward: not at work) - talk 08:47, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Birth name