Talk:Nicolas Sarkozy/Archive 1

message: "great-granddaughter of composer Isaac Albéniz and of a Russian father" What is that supposed to mean? Great-granddaughter of a Russian father? Does it mean ...and daughter of a Russian father?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.145.0.194 (talk) 15:10, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Cecilia's ancestry

message: Why was the article entirely silent about Sarkozy's own family (including his well-known marital issues)? It is bizarre that almost the only mention of Cecilia Sarkozy on English Wikipedia was in the article on censorship in France. 
Is Wikipedia running scared? WikiFlier 04:11, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If what you say is correct, I agree with you. Chivista 14:28, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Family 

message: I'm told Charlie Hebdo magazine found out his name means "in the mud" if pronounced properly and "in the shit" if pronounced in the usual french way.Can someone check that?
Here is the text I saw (in french):
Dans le dernier Charlie hebdo, l'article "Sarkosy fait se marrer les Hongrois" nous apprend de bien belles choses sur notre petit grand-homme-que-le-monde-entier-nous-envie. Lancés dans une grande enquête d'investigation : les journalistes de cet hebdo sont allés voir les ressortissants hongrois vivant dans notre pays afin de trouver la réponse à cette épineuse question : que signifie "Sarkosy", notre héros étant, comme chacun sait, d'origine magyare. Eh bien, la réponse n'est pas piquée des hanetons. 
On apprend d'abord que son nom se prononce "char-kö-sy" en hongrois et signifie littéralement "dans la boue". Il proviendrait de la ville hongroise de Sarköse, bâtie effectivement sur des marécages, le "y" final indiquant une origine noble (son nom complet est en fait Sakosy (de) Nagy-Bocsa). 
Si son papa n'avait pas quitté la Hongrie en 1946 ou 1947 lors de l'instauration du régime communiste, notre phare de la pensée serait peut-être aujourd'hui un hobereau hongrois vivant confortablement des revenus de son domaine; dès lors, on comprend mieux qu'il ne soit que modérément gauchiste, sauf quand il s'agit de faire référence à Jaurès et Blum dans le vain espoir de grapiller quelques voix à gauche... 
Mais ce qui fait le plus marrer les Hongrois interrogés, c'est la prononciation de son nom à la française : "Sar-ko-sy". En effet, le phonème "Sar" signifie "merde" en hongrois (qui s'écrit en fait "szar"). 
Et l'on apprend que "Sarkosy", prononcé à la française, signifie littéralement "dans la merde" en hongrois...
Véridique !
De là à dire que si notre idole accède à la magistrature suprême le 6 mai prochain, ce seront quelques millions de personnes - Français et étrangers - qui seront "sarkosy" jusqu'au cou...    
As I said I'm not sure... Does someone have the latest Charile Hebdo (might actually be an earlier version!!!)?
:U better turn to a Hungarian speaker rather than to magazines :-) Translating the name makes no sense as "Sárköz" (see :hu:Sárköz) is a small region in Southwest Hungary (+"-i" or "-y" which means "from"). If you take the region's name into pieces, it is true that "Sár" means mud and "köz" means "between" - but if they are put together, Sárköz means something like: "land between muddy lands" or "land amid marshes". Bests, --Korovioff 21:19, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: meaning of the name: land among marshes

message: man that is sure a seriously an ugly pic i mean can any politicians take good pictures nowadays i wouldnt even let them publish that mess
:OK what do you think of the one at ? We could see about the permissions on that one and use it instead... Politicians aren't movie stars, remember...
:--Kessler 13:33, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: older entries

message: According to french newspapers, Sarkozy has the numbers 1,3,3 and 7 engraved on the back of his wallet. Need verification on this.
:Sarko's a l33t fan?  Or is he thinking about the Hundred Years War? --politicslovr 06:44, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: 1337

message: There is no such word in English. It should be something like "Francosize" or "Franconize', or perhaps "Franconise", I am not sure, but definitely not Frenchify. If I did know, I would have changed it.
:wouldn't it be "turned French" instead? by the way he acquired French citizenship and his name was officially Frenchified into "Paul Sarközy de Nagy-Bocsa" are you sure the accent was kept? This "ö" character is not used in French language (though "ô" & "ë" exist). Considering the French usages (common/traditional way of doing things) I think the character would had been replaced by "o", hence the Minister is known as "Sarkozy". Not using the particle is common in some French noble/bourgeois (bourgeois: particle acquirer) and as nothing to do with "ô". Shame On You 06:02, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Frenchify

message: Overtranslation: I did not know that you could obtain a "bachelor's degree" in France. I guess he obtained a "License", which then could be said to be the equivalent of a "bachelor's degree" in America. Not to confuse with the baccalaureate degree, equivalent to the American high-school diploma, only a lot harder. --WhiteEcho 15:20, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Studies

message: Nicolas Sarkozy is a probable contender for the next presidential election in France. He has attracted much attention from the national and international press, with some evident bias for or against him. This, I think, should incite us to prudence when relating information about him.
I have strived to provide precise factual information, quoting articles in the mainstream press. On some occasions, I have removed vague statements (like things about Sarkozy confronting France's powerful unions), because they do not mean much. David.Monniaux 16:30, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Caution

message: *"cozy with big business" - If that's what they say then quotes are in order. Question: does Wiki prefer curly quotes? (And if so, what kind?)
*...in France. - Cut the sentence because only everything before the dot appears to be a ‘fact’ (quote from article).
*They also state... - this implies that the rest of the sentence is the opinion of the left-wing opposition. The rest of the quotes are therefore unnecessary and can be misinterpreted as ‘sarcasm quotes’ (sorry for the disfortunate term).
Let's all do our best to make this article as neutral as a politics-related article can be! Gambatte! Shinobu 21:33, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quotes and such... 

message: Are you sure about this Nagy-Bosca thing? I mean, the article says the name was originally Nagy-Bocsa, and then Paul changed it to Nagy-Bosca. This sounds strange to me, is the name more French-looking just because he switched the s and the c?--80.98.236.197 20:22, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: There was an error. In the French name it is Bocsa, c preceding s, as in Hungarian. I have corrected it. The difference between the Hungarian and the French name is that in the French name there are no more accute accents, and also Sarközy precedes Nagy-Bocsa, and finally "y" was replaced by "de". Hardouin 22:40, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Nagy-Bosca

message: Hi all. I tried to make the article flow a little more smoothly without altering the meaning of the text.  I would much appreciate it if someone more knowledgeable would check for me on this.  Thanks. Psp 23:07, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Style

message: I just looked up this article after reading about Mr Sarkozy in the news, and my view as a neutral observer is that the background section is more about his father than himself. His father appears to have lead an interesting life, so perhaps he deserves his own article. --JRawle 13:15, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Separate article for Paul Sarközy? 

message: I appreciate that the article is incredibly informative, which is why I was hesitant about editing - and admittedly, I haven't yet read the article all the way through. I didn't even know who Nicolas Sarkozy was until I saw the recent media coverage of the Paris riots.
Normally Wikipedia is incredibly good for in-depth commentary on recent news events, as is evidenced by this article in The Register. However, I was frustrated about not being able to find anything about the Paris riots until recently. I haven't checked the history of the Paris Riots redirect page - but I know that, for whatever reason, I was struggling to find information at first.
But I did find this article on Nicolas Sarkozy. I thought I'd find out more about his response to the Paris riots - so, rather than reading the whole article, I thought I'd do a Mozilla/Firefox find-as-you-type for the word riot. I didn't find anything. It surprised me that such a long article about Nicolas Sarkozy might not mention the recent riots.
Now I appreciate that there is some controversy over what to call the event - is it a riot, is it civil unrest, is it urban violence? I believe that the discussion to resolve this issue is useful and I don't wish to discourage it. However, the word most commonly splashed over the English media headlines is riot, and I believe that many other people might use CTRL-F or find-as-you-type to try to find the word riot in the Nicolas Sarkozy article.
So, even if we don't actually call it a riot - it is very important that the word riot appears in the article close to any points where the recent unrest is discussed. So I have edited the article accordingly.
I would appreciate it if someone could check that it still conforms to a Neutral Point of View, and make any necessary amendments - but without removing the word riot in the process. Thanks. Squashy 11:30, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I must admit, I neither finished reading it... in a way i think it should be possible to make it a bit shorter. However, what also should be mentioned is that recently, after the death of two "ghetto" kids, there were minor riots again. In a later interview, Sarkozy said he will punish all this scum and drugdealers, which I believe clearly shows his attitude towards certain problems in his country.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.108.103.172 (talk) 00:22, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Paris riots 

message: Is it just me or is this section (particurlaly the last paragraph or so) inanely repetetive? It is unnecessary to repeat one politcal observer's opinions twice, as if presenting new information?
: Its not new but more importantly its not  infomation from any reliable source, someones blog predicting the future isn't worth the paper its not printed on.
:I think this section "A political blogger(see []) predicts a defeat for Nicolas Sarkozy against the socialist candidate in a second round showdown of the next presidential election held in 2007. Julien Tolédano asserts that Sarkozy has no "economical programme at all" and that most of the far-right National Front voters will swing to the left because of the defiance of its leader toward the classical right since the mid-1980s." should be removed as its speculation on the future based on a single opinion.
The whole article seem imbalanced with a large amount of anti Sarkozy material. Certainly doesn't feel neutral POV at allAlci12 11:00, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ambitions for the Future 

message: * The intense rivalry with Dominique de Villepin.
* His reactions to CPE.
David.Monniaux 13:20, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Things missing 

message: Similar to his maternal grandfather, his father Paul Sarkozy never taught him or his brothers Hungarian, or made any effort to teach them about their ethnic background. Sarkozy says that his father wanted the children to be fully assimilated into French society, considering Hungary too small a country, and, said he, the Hungarian language and culture useless in the modern world. Thus, despite its heterogeneous ethnic origins (50% Hungarian, 25% French, 25% Ottoman Jewish), the Sarkozy family can culturally be described as a mainstream, middle class, Roman Catholic family, albeit one without a father, 
i found these recent changes badly written and cannot see what sarkozy father's ranting about hungary are doing in this article. this passage needs to be rewritten or deleted
trueblood 12:08, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sarkozy wrote so in several books. Don't delete things before discussing them here in the first place. This article has seen enough of back and forth. Hardouin 16:53, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  recent changes early life 

message: This whole section is unsourced, and the whole article is as well. A lot of the crictism reads like a character hit piece. Sep 20 2006
:All these events are well-known by anybody follows French news. I agree, though, that the article may lack sources suitable for foreigners. David.Monniaux 20:06, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  criticisms 

message: What's his position to USA and EG? Did he made any clear comments about that?
Greetings GC —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.23.126.20 (talk) 04:46, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What is EG? Apart from that, Sarkozy is often characterized as "Atlantist" - that is, in favour of a closer alliance with the US. David.Monniaux 21:41, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: EG is german for European Union: Europäische Gemeinschaften. Sometimes running a whois on the IP of the poster can give a hint about his/her country. Here "whois 212.23.126.20" shows a .de domain, ie. Germany. The question should had been self-explanatory (USA being often compared vs. European Union).So good question: position of Sarkozy about European Union.  AntonioB 01:09, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Liberal has widely different meanings depending on the country (while at least conservative can imply resistance to social change)... David.Monniaux 21:41, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "Un liberal" in french its a guy like Hayek or Milton friedman i.e : an ECONOMIC liberal. UMP is a conservative party from the right-wing. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.103.217.218 (talk) 19:15, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  What's his position to USA and EG? 

message: I find the "quotations" sections in the Sarkozy article problematic for a couple reasons: on what basis does one decide which quotes should be included and which shouldn't? Furthermore, listing them out of context can confuse the reader. The Ségolène Royal page does not have such a listing; quotes are added in sections and subsections of the article with an explanation.
This point is no gimmick. The media have paid a lot of attention on what each candidate has said in these quotes, and it is biased to have a quotes list for one candidate and not for the other.
There should be a "Policies" section, divided into relevant topics such as healthcare or foreign policy, and each quote should be recopied with an explanation in a relevant subsection.
Any thoughts? Scotchorama 13:23, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggest delete/replacing "quotations" section 

message: I have just replaced the word "rabble" with "scum" in the first part of the 25 October 2005 quote, as "scum" was already used in the second part by Sarkozy. I find "scum" to be more accurate that "rabble" as it contains a strong negative connotation. If someone disagrees, please revert or change it, but change in both what the woman and Sarkozy said, as Sarkozy's choice of words was a repetition of the woman's word. Alternatives could also include "punk" or a dual "scum/rabble" as used in the Guardian. Scotchorama 13:36, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: yep it's more "rabble" or even "scoundrel". racaille is an almost obsolete word. Louis R14 23:46, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Rabble is too soft, I find, as the banlieue youth find pride in calling themselves racaille. Also, considering the mediatic hurricane that surrounded the us of the word, maybe scum appropriately contains the harshness of the meaning. Were rabble used to qualify youth, it would not shock the way racaille did. Scotchorama 08:45, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think part of this reclamation is linked to the word having been considered outmoded by decades before Sarkozy put it back in the vernacular. So a major point is that it's a word that was resurrected, which to me is as important or more important than the severity of the word, and "scum", while an old insult indeed, is still used in English while "rabble" has definitely long since fallen out of favor (just as "racaille" had before 2005). "Scum" also falls to convey "racaille"'s idea of "teeming masses" quite as well as "rabble" does. "Scoundrel" and "rapscallion" sound too goofy to consider seriously. The harshness is not a big problem to me; if a prominent American politician were to refer to city youths en masse as "rabble" it would certainly cause a measure of controversy as being highly insensitive. It is a fine point but I think if we are going to stick with a single word, every point is in "rabble"'s favor. Andrew Levine 16:00, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Racaille" scum/rabble? 

message: i had to clean the numerous external links including by creating subsections and adding language info. also i have posted a highly relevant video interview, in english, which is now available in its full version.
: Charlie Rose show 02.02.07 (video interview at Place Beauvau, Paris with PBS journalist Charlie Rose, 30.01.07)
Louis R14 23:43, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: cleaning external links

message: This article  (by Conrad Black, no less) makes reference to an event where, as Interior Minister, Sarkozy apparently deployed a massive police dragnet to recover his son's stolen motorscooter, involving lots of DNA testing on motorcycle helmets.  This seems interesting enough to mention somewhere. --Saforrest 15:21, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Motorcycle story

message: The article reads "Catholic/Jewish mother". I understand the slight complexity of his background, but someone cannot be both Catholic AND Jewish... It could read "Catholic mother of Jewish descent", or any other variation, but "Catholic/Jewish" is simply not logical. Scotchorama 11:30, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed. There is no source in the article that says his mother is "Catholic/Jewish", nor any that says Sarkozy is a French Jew. In fact, Sarkozy's mother's father was a Jew who converted to Catholicism. His mother was Catholic, as is he. Neither he nor his mother are Jews by Jewish law or tradition, and neither of them appear to have identified as Jews. I know some people go by the "one drop rule", but Wikipedia relies on WP:BLP and WP:ATT. Jayjg (talk) 23:36, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

text: If you learnt to read you would see that his mother was not "a sefardic jew from Saloniki"- her father was from a Greek Jewish family (that ironically originated in France) and converted to Catholicism on marrying her mother who was a French Catholic. Gustav von Humpelschmumpel 12:21, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you sure this is the most appropriate place to post all of this? I would recommend you to go onto a forum or a blog to post all of this, not on an encyclopedia. Zouavman Le Zouave (Talk to me!) 22:53, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Armenian is just babbling away like a lunatic so I'd ignore him. Gustav von Humpelschmumpel 00:15, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

text: There is Jewish ancestry and Judaism the religion--one can be either or both, it is entirely possible to be of Jewish ancestry and not follow the Jewish religion.--Gloriamarie 05:22, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Jews are a nation, and not solely a religion.  The Wikipedia entry for "Jew" indicates, inter alia, that Jews are "members of the Jewish people (also known as the Jewish nation ...)." The Wiki definition of "nationality" states, inter alia: "Generally, nationality is established at birth by a child's place of birth (jus soli) and/or bloodline (jus sanguinis)." The Jewish nation lives largely, though now not wholly, in the diaspora. Under Israel's Law of Return, all members of the Jewish nation are automatically entitled, by virtue of being members of the Jewish nation, to return to the geographic borders of Israel, and become Israeli citizens.  Other religions are, in the "normal case," distinct from the nation. In other words, there was not a Protestant, or Buddhist, or Christian, or Hindu, or Aethiest nation per se. Those who are members of these religions are not members of a nation or "people."  Jews, peculiarly, are not just a religion. but are also a nation. --Epeefleche 20:13, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually it's not that unusual- Parsis are a religious as well as an ethnic group, no doubt there are others also. Gustav von Humpelschmumpel 21:03, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Catholic/Jewish mother"? 

message: Hey, can someone tell me why everyone is changing the picture so often? I think the 2005 picture is really good. The one where he speaks at UMP makes his head go all skinny. And the new one that was just put up I have never seen on commons or anywhere... Shouldn't we get this straight? Zouavman Le Zouave (Talk to me!) 17:53, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture 

message: Someone has slipped a joke into the caption below the picture of Sarko pointing at something. It reads, "Sarkozy pointing out the riff-raff." Can we get rid of this? In fact, can we get rid of the picture itself? There are enough images of him in the article, and this one isn't linked to any particular event in his career. Alex cap 01:04, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. ladyPolitik  06:34, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture caption 

message: Hi,
It seems a revert war is about to begin between Godefroy and I about the name and the nationality of Sarkozy's father. See here to compare our two versions: . In order to avoid it, I'll try here to explain my edits.
#Godefroy says I'm trying to hide the fact Sarkozy's father was a Hungarian immigrant. I don't think my verison of the text is more equivocal than Godefroy's one about that fact.
#I've just read today this sentence in the article: "He returned to civil life in Marseille in 1948 and, although he asked for French citizenship only in the 1970s (his legal status was that of a stateless person until then), he nonetheless gallicized his Hungarian name into "Paul Sarközy de Nagy-Bocsa"." I must admit I didn't know that fact that even doesn't appear in the French version of the article. What is the source for this fact? I've never heard about it before.
:::Un pouvoir nommé désir, by Catherine Nay: . Godefroy 11:51, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Here at Wikipedia, we are not in charge of saying what's correct and what's not. All we do is report things that exist. Here it's quite clear that there exist two different versions of his Hungarian name (lower-case and capital, -i and -y), just check on Google, so we report them. You can add a footnote if you want, stating that the version with lower-case n and -i ending is the one best conforming to Hungarian modern orthography. Godefroy 11:51, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The only reason why I put the "internationalized" version of his Hungarian name was because 99.9% of English readers are not familiar with Hungarian names, grammar, and subtleties, so the native Hungarian name would just confuse them (I put the native Hungarian name in parenthesis). The "internationalized" version of the name allows for a more flowing reading of the article for English speakers. It's the same "internationalized" version of Hungarian noble names that is used in all Wikipedia articles dealing with Hungarian aristocratic figures. Godefroy 11:51, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If he put his name with an hyphen in French when he gallicized it, it's quite probable that he also used the hyphen in Hungarian, otherwise why would he have done that? So I think it's best to leave his "internationalized" Hungarian name with the hyphen as well. As for the accent, I am 100% sure there's an acute accent on the o of Bócsa. The title comes from the village of Bócsa. There's even an article about that village on Wikipedia, see: Bócsa. If you're not convinced, there's a picture in Catherine Nay's book showing Sarkozy and his father visiting the village of Bócsa a few years ago. They are photographed next to the road sign at the entrance of the village showing the name "Bócsa" with the accent. It's interesting to note that on his family trip to Hungary Sarkozy went to Bócsa but did not go to Alattyán, so for him the real birth place of the family is Bócsa it seems. Godefroy 11:51, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Not just French and English. The Hungarian aristocratic names with "de" are also used in Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, and many other languages, even Russian (check Хорти, Миклош where they use "de" written in cyrilic alphabet). Don't forget that French was the international language of aristocracy for many centuries. The names with "von" are only used in German speaking countries really.Godefroy 11:51, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  About his father's name 

message: why is there no mention of Sarkozy's gypsy descent ? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Deceik (talk • contribs) 08:26, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gypsy roots 

message: "Sarkozy's marriage was the subject of heavy hints by Jean-Marie Le Pen, leader of the right-wing Front National."
I don't believe that Le Pen was hinting at Sarkozy's marriage, maybe at his marriage troubles?  That would need sourcing anyway, so I've removed it. Pstuart84 Talk 19:47, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sentence removed 

message: Can we write that the Red Army occupied Hungary in 1944 when in fact it defeated a Nazi ally? After 1945, we can talk about occupation, but before that, it should be seen as liberation.
:This is an ongoing debate in Hungary as those who were saved by that from death like that part of the Jewish population who did not perish, tended to see it as liberation. But some of the Jews who came back from nazi concentration camps almost directly get into camps in Siberia and for most of the population this was simply a replacement of one occupier by another. Don't forget that nazi ally as it was, in March 1944 the Germans occupied the country whose leader Horthy wanted to make peace with the Allies, and decades of Soviet occupation and deadly Communist rule followed. Occupation is not a rong word, especially in the context of an aristocrat immigrant who did not really want to taste the type of "liberation" represented by the Soviet army. --192.165.213.18 11:06, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Red Army in 1944 

message: Why does this article have its own 'controversies'-section while other leading politicians such as Jacques Chirac and Ségolène Royal does not? Also, is this statement really appropriate in the intro: "Critics have accused him of being an authoritarian demagogue, ready to trade away civil liberties for political gains.[1]."? It does not state who these critics are (in reality most likely his sworn enemies), and could thus be seen as weasel words. I can find no references to criticism in the intros of other leading French left-wing politicians either. Of course, most politicians are the subject to controversy and criticism, that's in nature. As it stands, this article is a quite good illustration of the general left-wing bias on Wikipedia. /Slarre 15:17, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sarkozy is very controversial. I am agreed that in general the presence and content of "controversy" section is often debatable, but I find your jumping to conclusions from this particular example to a supposed systematic problem of the entirety of Wikipedia quite weak. For your information, personalities of the Centre have made similar statements about Sarkozy. Rama 17:26, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: He is only controversial to those who disagree. Gustav von Humpelschmumpel 18:06, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, so about 70% of the population. Rama 11:12, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well he has been the clear front-runner since January so he mustn't be that controversial. We will see exactly on May 6 how many people are against him. I do think, as well, that this article is a classroom example of weasel words. Hektor 08:14, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  If you think that just because people are democratically elected they cannot be controversial, you are living in a strange world. At least it must have been a long time since you've heard of Israel or of the USA. Rama 09:40, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you're referring to Bush-- many people think he was NOT democratically elected, and that's what has caused much of the controversy around him from the start.  He lost the popular vote and the case was decided by the Supreme Court.  Sarkozy clearly won the popular vote in this election.--Gloriamarie 00:43, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just because he received the majority of the popular vote does not make uncontroversial. You forget that just under half voted for Royal over Sarkozy. The democratic system is not perfect as it does not express the universal will of the people, only the majority will. This problem is known as the Paradox of Democracy. Also, although the the 2000 US election results by supreme court ruling are highly controversial, in 2004 Bush was re-elected with both the electoral and the popular vote by a similar margin that Sarkozy received just recently. Now try to argue that Bush isn't a controversial figure in both international and domestic politics just because he revived the popular vote. (Mrutter 11:43, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I just saw this and will respond on your talk page.--Gloriamarie 05:16, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I agree that Wikipedia has a pronounced leftwing bias that shouldnt exist.Many articles,not just Sarkozy,but global warming,anything pertaining to Israel,the articles on the USA, articles on Communism,and many others could use modification. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Raspberrysnapple (talk • contribs) 22:56, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I took out 'dregs' as a translation of racaille as dregs is usually only used in the phrase 'dregs of society'.. as far as i know. -- maxrspct ping me  23:04, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  'Controversies'-section 

message: Many sources are saying that he's lawyer specializing in "Droit immobilier" (Real estate law ?) see  Ericd 21:26, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  specializing in French business law and Family law ? 

message: In the words of Chirac, "faute" does not mean simply error, otherwise he would have said "erreur", or "bêtise", or "bévue". Here what Chirac meant is much MUCH stronger, it has a strong moral value, it means almost "sin". I'll give an example in a French sentence so people can better grasp the usage of "faute" here:
:L'abandon de la Tchécoslovaquie par la France et l'Angleterre en 1938 a été une faute impardonnable.
and another example:
:L'aide apportée par le régime de Vichy à la déportation des Juifs est une faute qui restera à jamais comme une tache dans notre histoire.
That's exactly how Chirac meant the word "faute" in his private comment about Sarkozy's speech. So "error" is too light, and "offense" is completely contrary to what he meant. Can American and English speakers think of a better translation than misdoing? There's also misdeed, misconduct, misdemeanor, I don't know... Godefroy 01:43, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe adding an adjective to a word like "error" could work. For example: "important error". I don't know, this is just an idea. Or also, we could use the word "failure" or "misstep". Zouavman Le Zouave (Talk to me!) 22:48, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think failure and misstep carry the meaning of "faute" here. I propose "shameful act" which I put in the article. Here is an article from Libération in which they use the word "faute" exactly the way Chirac used it. The article is called Assad à Paris: une faute morale, une erreur géopolitique. Have a read, and let us know if you can find of a better translation than "shameful act". Godefroy 13:19, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "Shameful act" is to strong. What's the English translation of "mea culpa" ? Because it's exactly this "culpa". Ericd 16:35, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I translate it as "wrong", which has both the connotation of "error" and of "morally wrong". Rama 12:52, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The "faute" of Sarkozy over Iraq 

message: This is an extreme likelihood, but not a certainty. Suppose he gets run over by the proverbial bus? "...was elected President of France" or (somewhat inelegantly) "...was elected as the next President of France" - either of these would be better.66.183.165.57 00:15, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "...will be the next President of France"

message: There is a mistake in the summary box in the top-left corner of this page : sarkozy was Minister of the Interior for the first time from 2002 to 2004, not from 2000 to 2002 as mentionned in the box. The Socialists were in office from 1997 to 2002, and the rightists didn't get back in charge until the 2002 presidential election. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.101.166.240 (talk) 01:14, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mistake 

message: What's this guy's view on the Iran situation? I couldn't find mention in the article.  The Behnam 06:02, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: When he debated with S.Royal, N.Sarkozy said that the country isn't dangerous but it is its leaders who are. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.237.168.199 (talk) 17:12, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Iran 

message: While in post as Minister of Interior, Mr Sarkozy dotated French police around the country with a new weapon, namely the Taser (US brand for electric weapon). 600 of these are now being in use in the French police force. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.239.14.98 (talk) 13:30, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And ?? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.237.168.199 (talk) 17:10, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I supposed this is worthy because Tasers are often seen as saving lives, rather than using guns.--Gloriamarie 05:10, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  achievements 

message: As with the article on the French presidential election, this article has got some problems with POV. Take the introduction, stating that  "Sarkozy is known for his conservative stance on law and order issues and his admiration for a new economic model for France, suggesting that the country should have a more liberalised economy. Critics have accused him of being an authoritarian demagogue, ready to trade away civil liberties for political gains." For an article to be NPOV, it could be expected that the view of both supporters and critics would be given. Having just the critics' view in the introduction to the article on the next French president is neither NPOV nor favourable for Wikipedia. For this reason I have removed the sentence even though it is sourced, but if somebody wants to rewrite the introduction to include the views of both supporters and critics, feel free to do so. Dusis 17:41, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: POV introduction

message: Isn't the pronunciation rather fast ? Does it need re-recording ? Thanks. Wildpixs 10:45, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Pronunciation

message: Does this page need move protection, or is that only called for after more than one instance of move vandalism? --BlackTerror 14:15, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Move Protection

message: well i am a student and i am doing research on pres. Sarkozy of france. And what i was wondering was his point of view on iseral, and what is going on in thw war...and i am going to keep researching this until i find the answer i am looking for. If you have anyidea on his point of view contacet me in anyway possible. please.
(Thequestion101 18:29, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sarkozy sees himself as a supporter of Israel, and he sees Israel as an allie. He respect the Jewish settelers in Israel. He supported Sharons plan, but because he thought it would be good for Israel (He didnt understand that this plan helps to arabic terrorists). He supports Israeli fight against terrorism, and he often critisezed the "palestinian" (No such people by the way) "leaders" for doing nothing against terror. He is awar that Hamaas and Hizzballa are terrorists and hes against negotating with them. He sees Israel as an answer to the Jewish question. M.V.E.i. 19:02, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: To what "Jewish question"?--Gloriamarie 05:09, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  what is the point of view 

message: What does Sarkozy's Malta holiday have to do with his first presidential term? If he were to take a holiday during his presidency, I no doubt think he would have been compared to George W. Bush, now he is just an "extravagant" politican, or so the text seems to imply. There are parliamentarian elections coming up in France, can't this man get a rest? Intangible2.0 12:36, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Malta holiday 

message: Someone added the following info to the article:
" In 1917 a great fire destroyed parts of Salonika and damaged the family estate. Many Jewish-owned properties, including the Mallah’s, were expropriated by the Greek government. Jewish population emigrated from Greece and much of the Mallah family left Salonica to France, America and Israel."
and 
" During the Holocaust, many of the Mallahs who stayed in Salonica or moved to France were deported to concentration and extermination camps. In total, fifty-seven family members were murdered by the Nazis.Sarkozy's Jewish roots Australian Jewish News May 8, 2007"
Is this really relevant in an article about Nicolas Sarkozy? By the time these events happened his grand-father had already left Salonica, and it's making the family background section way too long compared to the rest of the article. It would be better to create an article dedicated to the Mallah family where this (interesting) information could be placed. Godefroy 15:00, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree. Dusis 15:36, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is this really relevant? 

message: Please don't revert the date to May 17. This is not the United States, there is no binding legal time like "January 20 at noon" for power transfer between the two presidents. The time is chosen by mutual agreement between the two presidents. And the time is May 16 in the morning. Not May 17 at 00:00.
Sarkozy will be president when he is presented the Grand Master collar of the Legion of Honor. Hektor 21:10, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Date of transfer of power

message: Half of this section sounds like OR, with a bunch of weasel words for good measure. It needs a citation, or failing that removal. The offending section is:
"Most of the files were refused because the minister had fixed, beforehand, a number of "about 6000" files to be accepted, whatever happened. The remaining 20,000 or so people have however been carefully registered in police files, including their personal address and child's school (one of the criteria was providing school certificates). Some consider the situation to be a possible 'trap' for integrated immigrants."
Edit: Goddamn bots. --163.1.165.116 14:27, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regularisation of Immigrant Families 

message: Now that Nicolas Sarkozy has been elected as the President of the French Republic, I think it would be better to strongly decrease the size of the controversies section. Indeed, that section seems too opinion-oriented and not enough factual. Probably this section should be summarized as a paragraph in the candidacy section. What do you think ? Metropolitan 15:35, 18 may 2005 (UTC).
:Alright, as no one answered me on this. I consider that no one disagree. Hence, I'll try to work out this page in order to make it more a "president" page when I'll have time. Metropolitan 16:14, 19 may 2005 (UTC).
Simply being the President of the French Republic does not give him the right to immunity from criticism.Dr. Wikipedian 13:04, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course, however, I don't see George W. Bush for instance having a third of its article dedicated to make a list of all the controversies around him. The current structure of the page is not efficient and doesn't appear objective. After all, if all the critics are grouped in one chapter, why not grouping all of Sarkozy's achievements in another chapter ! I guess you see well how all this leads to nowhere. Metropolitan 14:11, 23 may 2005 (UTC).
Yes, you're right. George W. Bush doesn't have a third of an article dedicated to criticism. Criticism of George W. Bush has it's own seperate article plus a section in the main article that it just as large as the section Sarkozy has. If you were seeking to make Mr Sarkozy's article more like Mr Bush's, you'd have to add to the criticism section instead of trying to compact it into a paragraph and sweep it under a rug in the candidacy section. Dr. Wikipedian 23:12, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Controversies section 

message: Saying that Srakozy "stressed the need for modernisation in France" is non NPOV because it assumes he is right. I would suggest he declared that France needed "modernisation".90.11.203.220 16:55, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: MODERNISATION

message: PLEASE DO NOT UPLOAD AND LINK THE OFFICIAL PHOTOGRAPH unless it becomes Free and compatible with the GFDL.
In France, official documents by the State are not in the Public Domain.
Wikipedia allows Fair use, but not at any cost. In this case, Free images of Sarkozy are perfectly available (we have a bunch of these on Commons), so any Fair use rational for the use of official images would be totally irrelevant. Rama 15:51, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Worse, the photograph was not produced by the government, but by a well-known press photographer who is not a government employee! The government most probably only has bought the right to use it for official purposes, not to redistribute it under a free license! David.Monniaux 21:50, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Official photograph 

message: Why did he fail his Sciences-Po exams? Please write about it.
Looking this up, I could find no references to it besides Wikipedia, so I removed it.  The reference said this was in an unofficial biography.  If anyone can find a source for this, you can add it back in.  I instead found a few articles which say he failed his entrance exam to Sciences Po, because his English wasn't good enough, so I added that instead.  That also seems to make a lot more sense.--Gloriamarie 05:06, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  IMPORTANT! 

message: *This is wrong, he is not the 6th co prince of Andorra, there have been co princes for centuries... Hektor 17:00, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: 6th co prince of andorra

message: I removed the two most recent additions to the Controversy section.  If it was admitted that Sarkozy didn't know about the illegal immigrants, that's not a controversy at all.  The drunk accusation was taken back by the journalist, and including the incident is a case of recentism at work.  It's not on the level of other things included in the section.--Gloriamarie 06:45, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed "controversies"

message: The section headed "Sarkozy's Cabinet" does not give members members of the Cabinet at all, it gives members of Sarkozy's personal staff. Intelligent Mr Toad 12:58, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that's what "cabinet" means. This is an article about French politics. "Cabinet" and "government" are not the same thing. Rama 10:41, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Cabinet

message: Did Sarkozy perform military service? If so, when and at what base? Not that I'd want to condemn him if he did cos I did not serve myself, but he was legally obliged to do so according to French law, which says all presidential candidates must perform military service.
: Rumour has it that he did in 1977, near Paris, in an intelligence service of the Army. I wouldn't call this information reliable, though. Rama 10:49, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The French military

message: This article states 2 different birth places: Paris and Budapest, both at more than 1 place. Which is correct?Twerbrou 14:33, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not only that, the lead paragraph says that he was born in Wien (Vienna), Austria! So, which is it? --Kimontalk 14:15, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Birthplace

message: The text «his admiration for a new economic model for France[2].» is in the introduction. does this mean anything? If yes, what does this mean?
Please sign your comments with four tildes (~).  Take a look at the reference given after the sentence (#2 in the article) and it explains this statement: he wants adjustments to the 35-hour workweek, lower taxes, and concessions from labor unions.  Basically, he is making more free market changes rather than socialist ones.  The text is a bit awkward in its current state (perhaps written by a non-native English speaker?) so perhaps I can do some rewording.  This is important, though, and does belong in the intro.--Gloriamarie 00:34, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  his admiration for a new economic model for France[2]. 

message: The article syas «he has promised closer cooperation with the United States.[3]». This seams false:
He did promise improve relationship with Africa, and he were recently in Sénégal and Lybie. He did promise an euro-mediterranean union ( union euroméditerranéenne). But I do not remember of anything related to America or United-States, except that according to him, he wants to help Airbus against Boeing, and that the euro(€ - EUR) is too much strong against the US dollar (US$).
America and France did not really "get along", as was at least often reported by the press, under Chirac.  Chirac went against the US on Iraq, yes, but he also, for instance, showed up at a dress-casual G8 summit in a suit and tie whilst every other leader arrived in jeans and button-down shirts.  He gave the appearance of going against the US not on principle but because he just didn't like America.  Because of this, Sarkozy is exceptional for saying that he wants to cooperate with America and that he has a great admiration for America. Many people have said he is an American-style president. The Washington Post article cited for that assertion says that Sarkozy has promised "reinvigorated ties" with America.  That is re-phrased as "closer cooperation" in this article. There are many media reports on this, at least in the English-speaking press. Perhaps in France it has not been mentioned as much, or perhaps in France Sarkozy talks about other things.--Gloriamarie 00:44, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  he has promised closer cooperation with the United States.[3] 

message: Previous picture about Anti-Sarko sittings was a photography of demonstrators drinking beer, with hidden faces, like shaming on them. I think this is completely in conflict with Wikipedia's policy of neutrality. A better photography was already in Wikipedia Commons, so I put this one instead. Od1n 13:58, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That is not against Wikipedia policies, unless you are suggesting that the photograph was doctored. NPOV is not a policy of representing people as they would like to be represented. Rama 13:59, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anti-Sarko 

message: Oughtn't the link from the word Hungary link to the country entry rather than the Hungary during WW2 entry?  -- HasanDiwan 01:23, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link to Hungary 

message: I have some doubts about Nicolas Sarkozy succeeding Jacques Chirac as "Gaullist candidate", since Sarkozy is not explicitely gaullist. For now, I put Chirac as not being succeeded in that capacity. What is your opinion ? Wedineinheck 13:40, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Gaullist challenger was Nicolas Dupont-Aignan, who actually failed to fulfill the requirements to run the election. Rama 13:47, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Gaullist candidate

message: Would somebody like to refute the ridiculous and libellous claims that Sarkozy is a mossad agent? The claims have been made by Al Ahram, an egyptian newspaper, and supposedly were made in Le Figaro, a french paper.
There are a lot of idiots in the world and they need to be helped
89.243.183.240 18:53, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Le Figaro merely reported that an anonymous person sent emails around to top cops, purporting to be from the secret services, making the claim you mention.  Al Ahram basically  lied about the content of the Le Figaro article.  There is no point refuting something that correctly did not make it to the article. Mezigue 18:05, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  claims of mossad involvement 

message: Does anyone else think they are a bit excessive in this article? The more images the better might be good in some articles, but on this there's several where he's just standing in front of a microphone which seems like overkill. One Night In Hackney303 20:17, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Images