Talk:Talbot Tagora

message: As part of this project, I checked a few random inline citations from this article.  The results were:
#Footnote 2 (b): "Over the course of development, the C9 also lost its vertical taillights in favour of more "fashionable" (at that time) horizontal ones."
#*Problem.  This footnote, and all other footnotes to this site, link to a table of contents page.  Please link to the individual pages with the relevant information for each note.
#Footnote 1 (i): "It was also comparable to Renault 20/30 and Ford Granada pricing."
#*Problem.  Page numbers and publication data needed.
#Footnote 3 (e): "The Tagora was also launched under the Talbot brand, which was relatively unestablished in the contemporary marketplace and had a questionable pedigree - not a very favourable trait in the executive class, ruled by well-known nameplates like Ford Granada."
#*Checks out. From site: "Taken together with the poor reception the revived Talbot marque enjoyed, it was not surprising that the Tagora was a sales failure."
#Footnote 4 (b): "The base engine was a version of the older Simca 2-litre with increased displacement, also featured in the Matra Murena, not related to either Chrysler US or PSA 2.2-litres."
#*Problem. From site:"...although the 2.2 engine was to be Chrysler's rather than the identical-displacement Peugeot/Citroen motor"
#**No mention of Matra Murena, or of the fact that the engine was descended from the Simca engine.  Also, an AOL home page does not count as a reliable source.
#Footnote 5 (b): 'The V6 model, which was actually badged 2.6, came in the top SX trim level, loaded with extras, but surprisingly not available with automatic transmission."
#*Problem.  Another link to a table of contents page (sort of; it's a gallery of scan images that you can click to read).  Please link to specific pages containing the information.
A fair amount of work needs to be done getting these into shape.  --RobthTalk 19:52, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "the executive class, ruled by well-known nameplates like Ford Granada." Hmmm, does anybody really associated "executive class" with "Ford Granada"?Kar98 17:01, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Temporaly ambigious grammar aside, the Granada was an executive car in no lesser way than the Tagora. As you might come from the other side of the Atlantic, do acquaint yourself with the executive car article to find out what the "executive class" means here. Do also place other suggestions for changes on the talk page, as the page gets constantly vandalized and you might be editing a corrupt version, which is easier to revert altogether. Bravada, talk - 17:08, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Which is why I posted this remark in form of a question, on the talk page, rather than editing the article. All I changed there was some minor spelling. :-) Kar98 01:43, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citation spot check 

message: :"The Talbot Tagora is a large executive saloon car which was developed by Chrysler Europe and produced by Peugeot Société Anonyme (PSA)."
I know the Tagora is pretty rare now, but some do still exist. It's for this reason that I've included changing "was" to "is" in my copyedit. I looked around and saw that many (though not all) articles for out-of-production cars use "was". Nevertheless, I feel that's inappropriate. We're not implying that the model is still in production – the infobox make production dates clear. Normally, so would the next sentence, which would say "was produced by...". Unfortunately in this case we have "was developed... and produced" which makes it less clear. Nevertheless, I feel saying that it "was" a car implies that it no longer exists, as one might say of a concept car or prototype which has been destroyed. – Kieran T (talk | contribs) 11:44, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks a lot for your copyediting Kieran! You are obviously right in what you said and I believe this article is now much more digestible and enjoyable for the reader (not because of the is/was thing but all the other edits obviously :D). Why it did not occur to me that a lot of stuff could be so much better phrased? And I still can't believe I have overlooked the "Moroccan press" :D :D :D OK, let's rejoice now! Bravada, talk - 12:14, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Existence of model

message: I have just received anther email from the generous Mr. Stan Orand, where he sent some really nice photos of the Tagora DT, including a very handy front 3/4s! Unfortunately, it was affected by "negative lighting", so I tried to touch it up with PhotoShop. Unfortunately, my photoshopping skills, as well as my manual abilities (momentairly) are limited, so the effect is quite underwhelming. Please let me know whether this is any improvement over the previous photo (see page history), and whether there is some merciful PhotoShopper among the viewers of this article who could do a better job with those photos - I will send them the originals by email. Thanks. Bravada, talk - 17:06, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I can send the originals to anyone who would wish to have a go at them. The current photo looks awful, but the original would have been even worse, so for the sake of giving the readers an even remote idea of how the car looks like, I think it is better to leave it like it is. Besides, there is also a profile shot from Mr. Orand in the Commons, do you believe including it in the article would make sense? Bravada, talk - 11:27, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photo 

message: I am not sure but by the look of the picture, the Tagora was sold in Spain as Talbot Solara (sometimes with Chrysler badge on). E  Asterion u talking to me? 00:29, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Talbot Solara was a different model, it was a sedan based on the Alpine/1510 - see Simca 1307 for details, or www.rootes-chrysler.co.uk for more info on this series. But yup, it and Solara were somewhat similar on the outside, thi issue ahs been raised here before. Good day, Bravada, talk - 07:20, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, thanks. I see what you mean. E  Asterion u talking to me? 19:58, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tagora = Solara? 

message: The phrase "the Talbot brand, which was relatively unestablished in the marketplace and had a questionable pedigree," seems unclear.
If "established" meant "having a current share of the market" you'd be right. But if "established" meant "having history" you'd be wrong. Talbot produced some memorable cars before it came into Rootes hands, and was given over to badge engineering. I'm not sure what the "questionable pedigree" phrase means. Certainly the Tagora did not represent Talbot well. Would, "the Talbot brand, already tarnished by badge engineering, and with no significant market share", describe the situation any better? Seasalt 11:21, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think "tarnished" is too "point of view" for our purposes. But you're right; the phrase doesn't consider the original pedigree, dating back to the previous incarnation of Talbot, which the older generation of purchasers would have remembered. I think what the phrase is really trying to say is, "the Talbot brand, which had yet to be properly re-established in the market-place..." – how would that be? – Kieran T (talk | contribs) 11:39, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Clarity

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thread_title: File:Talbot Tagora 2.2 GLS.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: I don't believe this article meets the current FA criteria in many respects, including its layout, prose, sourcing and presentation. If improvements aren't made in the next four weeks it's my intention to nominate it for an FA reassessment. Malleus Fatuorum 19:07, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, but am also not prepared to save it. Regards, OSX (talk • contributions) 01:47, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  FA reassessment 

message: This 2006 WP:FA promotion was last reviewed in 2009 and has not been maintained to WP:WIAFA standard.  Unless these issues can be addressed, the article should be submitted for a Featured article review:
* The article is listy; lists should be prosified.
* There is uncited text, including direct quotes, throughout.
* There are incomplete citations and bare URLs.
* There are sources of dubious reliability, eg https://web.archive.org/web/20120205065239/http://www.rootes-chrysler.co.uk/tagora-gallery.html
It does not appear that the article has been maintained since its 2009 FAR; a top-to-bottom rewrite is needed to maintain FA status. SandyGeorgia (Talk)  20:42, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Featured article review needed 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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*Added archive https://www.webcitation.org/69rOhjw74?url=http://www.enginesandgearboxes.co.uk/makes/talbot.aspx to http://www.enginesandgearboxes.co.uk/makes/talbot.aspx
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thread_title:  External links modified