Talk:Elvis Presley/Archive 11

message: Some IP has plonked in a new section, "Controversy", a paragraph that accuses Presley of just about everything but mainlining heroin and screwing his pooch. (I'm particularly amused by the way his momma-in-law accused him of screwing his mother and Nick Adams. Presumably this was on separate occasions, but was it a threesome with raunchy Dee each time, was Dee hiding under the bed, or how else does she know?)
But let's put aside all of that for a moment and concentrate on this bit: Many artists, including Chuck D, Eminem and Marlon Brando have accused Presley of stealing black music. A recent poll indicated that 90% of young black people in America hate Elvis.
I'm surprised to hear that 90% of young people in America (the US?) of any pigmentation have even heard of this old guy who died before they were born: it doesn't ring true. (If he were alive, he'd be even older than Dubya!)
Chuck D, Eminem and Brando: are/were they IP attorneys? Whatever their level of expertise in these matters: (1) Are they accusing Presley, his agent, his employer, or some combination of not paying royalties? (2) Are they accusing him/them of forcing black artists into accepting unfairly low royalties? Or (3) are they just noting the fact -- a sadly obvious one -- that Presley got rich (and people got richer off him) whereas black artists didn't and indeed often died neglected and poor? I'm willing to believe (1) or (2) but I (and readers) want proof. As for (3), I believe it already (Wynonie Harris, etc etc) -- but why not write this up in some articulate way? And if it's (3), you'll have to say how he stole black music: sure, "Hound Dog" and some others were/are black, but most of Presley's money-spinners sound utterly white to me (and that's not intended as a compliment).
My uneducated guess is that during the early part of his career Presley benefited from, and black artists suffered from, a racism that was pervasive in the entertainment industry and society as a whole; and during the later part he was pretty much in a different world. -- Hoary 13:20, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Right. The removal seems more like dismissing an uncited passage in the midst of other uncited passages because it doesn't sound credible. While the arbitrary statistics don't necessarily make a strong case, this section needs to be rewritten and expanded upon. MOD 16:42, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Right.  Let's begin with removing the part that said he shtupped his mother.  I'm all for establishing the fact that he benefited because racist society focused on white acts.  The claims of motherfucking, under the guise of "controversy" is what led me to revert.--Urthogie 17:32, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I notice that the section has been replaced.  You know, it is a shame that there aren't any mainstream sources on the subject of this article, forcing us to turn to the tabloid press for information... Jkelly 21:45, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Hey Mr/Ms IP, it's really easy to sign your comments. You do it like this: "~~~~". Let's put aside "evil racist" for a moment, and concentrate on the rest. Precisely what do you mean by "stealing" music? And just what evidence do you have that "most black teenagers in America [the US?] hate Presley"? You don't have to explain either claim, but do please choose between either (a) explaining a claim and (b) refraining from repeating it. I'm rather hoping that you will explain, because the claims interest me. NB would-be explanations without supporting evidence will be of no interest to me. -- Hoary 02:22, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Stealing black music, revisited

message: :Whether or not he actually said it, Presley was widely believed to have said, "The only thing black people can do for me is shine my shoes and buy my records."A variant: "I've only two uses for niggers – they can buy my records and they can shine my shoes." Quoted in Alexander Cockburn, The Golden Age Is in Us: Journeys and Encounters, 1987-1994, p.17. It was claimed that the alleged comment was been made either in Boston or on Edward R. Murrow's Person to Person.Michael T. Bertrand, Race, Rock, and Elvis (University of Illinois Press, 2000), p.221. A black southerner in the late 1980s even captured that sentiment: "To talk to Presley about blacks was like talking to Adolph Hitler about the Jews."Bertrand, p.200. The author adds, "One journalist wrote upon the singer's death that African Americans refused to participate in the numerous eulogies dedicated to him." 
:In 1957, the African-American magazine Jet looked into the allegations, finding no proof that Presley had ever said it. Presley himself later claimed that the quote had been fabricated and that he was not a racist.Snopes.com.
:The fact that Presley was "a white performer whose financial success rested upon the songs and styles of black artists historically excluded from the popular music marketplace"Bertrand, Race, Rock, and Elvis, p.26., together with other factors that would have made him highly suspect in the eyes of blacks, namely his poor, white origins in deeply racist Mississippi, or his purchase of an old Memphis mansion, and his association with right-wing politicians such as Richard Nixon, has often been cited as proof that he was a racist.Bertrand, Race, Rock, and Elvis, p.27. Whether or not it was justified, the fact remains that distrust of Presley was common amongst the general African-American population after the allegations were made public.Bertrand, Race, Rock, and Elvis, p.200.
:The above notwithstanding, Presley was able to maintain friendly personal relationships with some of the most celebrated, well-informed and proud African-Americans of his generation, including sportsmen and US civil rights activists Muhammed Ali, Jim Brown, and Rosey Grier, as well as R&B legends James Brown, Jackie Wilson, B.B. King and Sammy Davis, Jr."An All-Star Tribute Remembering Elvis", US Magazine January 14, 1985, p.57. However, among his personal friends from the so-called Memphis Mafia, with whom Elvis spent most of his time, were only southern white boys from Mississippi.See Buzz Cason, Living the Rock 'N' Roll Dream: The Adventures of Buzz Cason (2004), p.79. Jerry Eden, Against the Wind (1999), p.93-4.
I am of the opinon that the critical remarks in this section provide a well-balanced view of what black people were thinking about Elvis's alleged racism. This is part of the singer's and his audiences' history. Therefore, these critical remarks should not be deleted. Onefortyone 00:22, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Allegations of racism