Talk:Marie Lloyd

message: WikiProject Biography Assessment
Barely a B; could use more references.
The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 16:57, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography/Assessment#Class_parameter|Biography assessment rating]] comment 

message: Can someone put in exactly where her grave is "North London" is much too big a place!  john mullen
:HTH Kbthompson 13:49, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Grave

message: Not sure which is the copy this or that but see http://www.peopleplayuk.org.uk/guided_tours/music_hall_tour/music_hall_stars/lloyd.php "In one famous incident... and doing herself no favours."  and this text from this article "In one famous incident, ... She did herself no favours." the site is not cited and the words are very similar. --Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 00:24, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Copyvio?

message: Assessed as C-class, for lack of references. Boneyard90 (talk) 10:30, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  WP: Women's History Assessment Commentary 

message: Does anybody have any objections if I swap the current article for a version I have been working on of late.  I intend to eventually make this featured content.  Any thoughts? -- CassiantoTalk 00:41, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: An excellent plan: let me know if you need proofing or assistance. - SchroCat (talk) 13:22, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the offer which I shall greatfully take you up on.  I will hunt down some  sources at the BL over the next few weeks and report back. Since replaced! -- CassiantoTalk  14:28, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed replacement of content 

message: I agree.  It is on my "to do" list but I keep getting distracted.  I have all the literature but I'm finding it difficult to commit right now. -- CassiantoTalk  18:01, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  From B to C class. 

message: Does this now make sense? -- CassiantoTalk  12:41, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: '"The Three Ages of Woman", which took a cynical look from a female's perspective of the opposite sex' - the opposite sex being men, then, even though the title has 'Woman'? Rothorpe (talk) 12:55, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that this is not clear.  Can you clarify, Cassianto?  -- Ssilvers (talk) 14:15, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

text: Mustn't forget this. Who's looking at whom? Rothorpe (talk) 10:43, 13 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Basically, It was Lloyd making comic observations about the opposite sex. But I'm damned if I can find it now.  I have looked EVERYWHERE! --CassiantoTalk  11:22, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

text: Never mind, I've rewritten it accordingly. Rothorpe (talk) 11:36, 13 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: doh, there it is!  Yes, the edit looks great and makes much more sense, thanks.   -- CassiantoTalk  11:48, 13 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:   "The Three Ages of Woman" 

message: So we were wrong (on my talk page), it doesn't rhyme with 'starry' but has the conventional French/English pronunciation? Rothorpe (talk) 12:02, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, her name does rhyme with starry, but the correct thing to do would be to put the pronunciation template in (like we said). After a lot of flpping and save previews,  I managed to do it, but it asked me for the pronunciation.  I thought the pronunciation of "Marie" (rhyming with "starry")  sounded a bit French, so I opted for that.  I also found a citation from Gillies, who also used the "starry" rhyme. Would this be correct? -- CassiantoTalk  17:58, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: No, the starry Marie is very much an English pronunciation, one might say a Victorian one; it's the modern pron that is like the French, roughly. But not to worry, I've put both starry and the IPA in now. Rothorpe (talk) 18:58, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Great.  Remind me never to use my dodgy pronunciations in France...  --CassiantoTalk  04:52, 13 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Marie no longer starry 

message: As an American professor who took his PhD in 19th century studies at Columbia, I am grateful for this article. Since Steven Marcus's The Other Victorians, followed by works by Foucault and Peter Gay, we've tried to balance old accounts of the era by restoring to the prominence they genuinely held such figures as Lloyd. Leaving her and her audience out of cultural history is a bit like writing about contemporary America without writing about rap and its huge audience. It's important for a scholar to know that the Victorian lower classes could make a star of someone who sang songs like (to quote the article) "She Sits Among the Cabbages and Peas",[95] which she retitled "I Sits Amongst the Cabbages and Leeks" after some protest.[96] Victorian life wasn't only Sundays of grim middle-class bible study with one's room's pictures turned to the wall. Profhum (talk) 16:52, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: is comments like this that make all my effort researching and writing this article all the more worth it.  Thank you for taking the time to read the article and for commenting here. Cassiantotalk 00:15, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thank you for the work on this important cultural figure  

message: The intro says " In 1884, she made her professional début as Bella Delmere; she changed her stage name to Marie Lloyd the following year," but the Early career section has her starting her solo career in 1885, under the name Matilda Wood, with the name Bella Delmere coming later. Can anyone clarify? Drmab (talk) 22:17, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I am currently away, but I will check the sources when I get back.  I suspect, "Matilda Wood" has been confused with Bella Delmere as the former was the name of Lloyd's mother.  Thanks for pointing this out. Cassiantotalk 00:40, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

text: Indeed.  And I think that is mentioned, is it not? CassiantoTalk 08:02, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Professional debut  

message: The meaning of the phrase "earned her an extended audience" in the lead isn't clear, it isn't in the body of the article (and is therefore uncited), and the year given (1919) contradicts the year given for perfomance of the song in the body (1918). SpinningSpark 16:06, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: So much better through the art of communication.  Now done. CassiantoTalk 17:52, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended audience 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Marie Lloyd. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I started an article on "A Little of What You Fancy Does You Good", which all sources I've found say was published in 1915, and recorded by Lloyd in 1916.  However, this article states that Lloyd popularised it in 1914.  Can anyone who is an expert on Lloyd (I'm not) clarify this point?   Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:51, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: , thanks for creating that.  I no longer have Gillies, so I'm unable to check.  I'm fairly confident with my accuracy; annoyingly I don't have the book any more so I can't double check.  That said, I'd be happy to err on the side of caution with this and for your source to be used for the year, so long as it can be trusted. Gillies can remain in place for any other information the sentence contains, should it still fit. CassiantoTalk 17:03, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: My best source is the Richard Anthony Baker book - "In 1915, Arthurs and Leigh wrote "A Little of What You Fancy".....".  (p. 151)    Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:12, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: , Yes, I've heard of Baker - I used him on George Robey - so it's fine with me to use. CassiantoTalk 22:07, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Here is a link to the book - I'm not going to edit a FA myself.   Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:42, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Why on earth not? CassiantoTalk 06:31, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  "A Little of What You Fancy Does You Good" 

message: According to the respected music hall historian Richard Anthony Baker (in his book Old Time Variety: an illustrated history, p.190), the story that Lloyd sang a song with that title is a much-repeated myth, which is perpetuated in this article.   Baker wrote that "In fact, there was no such song.  It was a line in a Leslie Sarony song, "Mucking about the Garden".  Aware of the controversy, Sarony registered the composer as Q. Cumber."  Can the reference be safely removed from the article?   Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:04, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  "She Sits Among the Cabbages and Peas" 

message: I just created a stub on the 1972-1973 UK miniseries The Edwardians. One of the episodes was about Marie Lloyd. There is currently no legacy section or cultural depictions section in this article. I always hesitate to add anything to an FA article, perhaps an editor more invested in this article might consider where content like this might exist within this article. Best.4meter4 (talk) 15:13, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[The Edwardians (miniseries)]] 

message: Reaching out to those with experience with editing, approving articles relating to Music Hall artists and history for the following draft: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Sanford_and_Lyons
Thankyou so much.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Victoriana2022 (talk • contribs) 03:35, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sanford and Lyons 

message: This is a really interesting article. Well done to all who have worked on it. I noticed the Times republished the original news article of her death (as part of the centenary of the occasion) the other day. It seemed to contradict this page's claim that her final appearance was at the Alhambra Theatre. (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nation-mourns-marie-lloyd-star-of-music-hall-w73nj5r87). I am thinking of adding some of this detail to the page in the coming days so I thought I'd pose this puzzle here beforehand.
SnowballWT (talk) 10:15, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Last Performance

message: Recent research by the historian Hallie Rubenhold has not turned up evidence that the Belle Elmore story is a reliable one (see https://twitter.com/HallieRubenhold/status/1654145844818452482).
Even the source cited by the article (Macqueen-Pope 'Queen of the Music Hall' refers to the story with the term 'It is said that...', suggesting this is hearsay rather than historical fact. So, whilst there is a source which can be cited, the story is gossip or hearsay. Given the claim serves to blacken the name of a murder victim, isn't really historical fact and isn't necessary for detailing Marie's role in the 1907 music hall strike, should it not be removed? 
The version here isn't the one that's in Macqueen-Pope's book in any case. 137.220.109.188 (talk) 00:58, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Belle Elmore and the Music Hall Strike