Talk:American Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family and Property

message: I have expanded the article to make it more useful and I have changed POV comments. --Ebz 09:26, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV 

message: TFP is recognized broadly within the Catholic Church, especially those Catholic elements actually interested in the historical doctrine of the church. Its ideology is that of the actual historical ancient church, and not profane materialistic nihilistic self-ironic modernity. Leave it to the mocking Judeo-Trotskyite mob of wikipedians to distort everything beyond their own knowledge.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.150.83.66 (talk) 04:29, 09 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "pseudo-Catholic" 

message: The post on the Brazilian bishops "condemnation" is totally POV. In order to be balanced, you must include the public and vocal support of the TFP of many bishops, priests, and laymen from around the world. Cardinal Jorge Medina, who announced the election of Pope Benedict XVI, send a letter of support you can read here. 
The Brazilian TFP was attacked by the Brazilian Conference of Catholic Bishops because of the former's fight against communist and confiscatory land reform which was being encouraged by the government and the Bishops. The defense and propagation of liberation theology by the Brazilian Bishops, a Marxist-inspired interpretation of Scripture condemned by Pope John Paul II, and the corresponding opposition of the TFP, was also a factor. Their "report," in addition to being devoid of factual evidence, was completely irregular regarding the dictates and procedures of canon law when dealing with suspect organizations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jrb416 (talk • contribs) 03:02, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brazilian Bishops 

message: :Image:TFP Standard.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
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BetacommandBot (talk) 06:22, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:TFP Standard.gif

message: :Image:Crusade Magazine Covers.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 13:58, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Crusade Magazine Covers.JPG

message: Shouldn't this page just be called "Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family and Property", the organisation operates internationally and the United States chapter is just one of many. The organisation itself is based in Brazil.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.247.166.29 (talk) 23:52, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Name change

message: An article about the Brazilian TFP was recently created at Tradição, Família e Propriedade.  I dePRODed it, but I'm not sure what to do with it now.  Tradition, Family and Property currently redirects here.  I thinking we might use that for a general article about TFP internationally, while leaving this article about the US organization alone.  Alternatively, we might try merging these articles.  Any thoughts?--Chris Johnson (talk) 00:26, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other TFPs 

message: :Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *Support or *Oppose, then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.
*Support One for the specific American organization and another for the international movement, or expand that part under Plinio Correa de Oliveira, since many organizations in the movement are not called Tradition Family Property Washinq (talk) 18:21, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: I propose this article be taken off the list of New Religious Movements, for the simple reason that its fails to prove the TFP is a "new religion" or "cult". The definition of a "New Religious Movement" on Wikipedia itself is vague: "Scholars...continue to try to reach agreement on definitions and boundaries". What? 
To be a "New Religious Movement", this article would have to provide references for at least part of the following criteria from the article:
* Novel approaches to spirituality or religion
* Communitarian enterprises that demand a considerable amount of group conformity
* Social identity that separates their adherents from mainstream society
"Generally, Christian denominations that are an accepted part of mainstream Christianity are not seen as new religious movements." Is the TFP not an accepted part of mainstream Christianity? Does the TFP dissent from the Catholic Church on Faith and Morals? Please provide references from their publications or activities.
I haven't found anything on their website to indicate this. If anyone finds references then we can keep it as it is. Otherwise, we should remove it.--Jrb416 (talk) 20:17, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: *TFP is not a new religion or cult, it is a subject of the Roman Catholic Church and is fully subservient to her teachings and practices, although it does call some of these into question.  I only happen to know this because I have met several members and attended a few lectures at their HQ in Philadelphia.  All references to New Religious Movements might actually be attempts to smear this organisation and should be removed immeadiately.  --Jubilee♫clipman 19:59, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Properly sourced material should not be removed from the article, even if they make what we believe are false accusation.   Will Beback  talk   20:37, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, the claim by the French government has to stay; you are quite correct.  The List of new religious movements  does not actually include this organisation, as far as I can see.  However, :Category:Start-Class New religious movements articles and :Category:High-importance New religious movements articles do list them.  I think that's what Jrb416 is referring to.  --Jubilee♫clipman 20:47, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: * It is beyond me how the supposedly secular French government determines what is and is not a cult, and therefore what is and is not a legitimate religion or movement. At most this should be posted on the article about the French TFP. Material that contains accusations without proof should not be kept. If anyone can find a serious, scholarly report on the group's activities showing this, then we can keep it.  Jrb416 (talk) 23:57, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Remove from "New Religious Movements" 

message: could this be classified as under the category of a Catholic lay society?--76.2.31.201 (talk) 21:25, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Catholic Lay Society 

message: This article (and related articles concerning the TFP movement) have been flagged for being based on web sites and other sources closely related to the subject.  A previous editor defended this practice with the comment "The best practice for analysis is drawn from what an organization says about itself."  This, however, violates Wikipedia policy that requires that "topics must be verifiable with independent, third-party sources."  Wikipedia's verifiability policy further spells out that self published sources may be used for information about the subject itself, as long as these claims are not self-serving. but cannot make claims about third parties.
A recent edit changed a description of TFP's "protests against films and plays that it views as blasphemous" to "protests against blasphemous films and plays", thereby accepting the assertions of TFP and its sources as factual.  I have reverted this edit, since no evidence has been presented that there is a general acceptance by independent reliable sources that these films and plays were, in fact, blasphemous. --SteveMcCluskey (talk) 16:35, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Independent Sources 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110103140842/http://www.tfpstudentaction.org/fundraising-disclosure-notice.html to http://www.tfpstudentaction.org/fundraising-disclosure-notice.html
*Added  tag to http://www.oblon.com/sites/default/files/ttab/2009/91157073.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090907170630/http://www.tfpstudentaction.org/get-involved/online-petitions/scandal-research-finds-homosexual-clubs-at-catholic-universities.html to http://www.tfpstudentaction.org/get-involved/online-petitions/scandal-research-finds-homosexual-clubs-at-catholic-universities.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on American Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family and Property. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101202080348/http://www.tfp.org/tfp-home/books-and-statements-online/just-war-and-the-pacifist-offensive-on-sovereignty.html to http://www.tfp.org/tfp-home/books-and-statements-online/just-war-and-the-pacifist-offensive-on-sovereignty.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110604115334/http://www.tfp.org/current-campaigns/2005/a-plea-for-terri.html to http://www.tfp.org/current-campaigns/2005/a-plea-for-terri.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for speedy deletion:
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thread_title:  Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for speedy deletion 

message: The paragraph talking about TFP Student Action specifies as their most recent activity events from 2009. Either that is not true, or we should be reporting on their demise. (The paragraph after that sources a claim about a school offering "traditional Catholic education" to the school itself; either we need a third-party source, or we need to cast it as being in the school's voice rather than ours.) -- Nat Gertler (talk) 19:04, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dated material