Talk:Penguin/Archive 1

message: lokiiita:Manypenguins.jpg and if anyone knows what type of penguins these are they can add it to the gallery. Thanks. Will 20:50, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture 

message: The article contains so many falsities that I don't know where to begin. It seems that most of the "facts" derive in one way or the other from the popular movie "The march of the penguins". A fundamental revision of this article and the subsequent species pages would be really necessary. Unfortunately I currently have no capacities to do so but my advise to anyone wanting to tackle this issue is to refer to the appropriate literature, i.e. Williams 1995 and Davis & Renner 2003 that are listed in the reference section at the bottom of the article page. Some excerpts and basis information given in the latter book can be found at [] which is maintained by the author of that book.  C00ch 13:38, May 09, 2006 (NZST)
: Addition re: WPCD - Although penguins are certainly an essential topic in encyclopedias I think that the current quality of this article does not justify inclusion in the Wikipedia CD project. The article is grossly unbalanced and instead of providing even background information about penguins, highlights details that are often completely out of context (e.g. diving speeds, external genitalia, homosexuality) or wrong (e.g. sense of smell not researched, chromosome testing necessary to determine sex). Other information are dubious at best without giving sources (e.g. excellent hearing) or overweighted (e.g. Evolution). C00ch 13:45, June 20, 2006 (NZST)
: Eyesight and Hearing - First off, sorry if this is the wrong location for this. I have never added to a discussion, so I'm not very good at it. Now, the issue. This article says that penguins are nearsighted and have excellent hearing. In a study published by Sivak & Howland in 1984 shows that (at least Humboldt) penguins have very good vision both in air and in water. [The article can be read here.] The other problem is the labeling of penguin hearing as "excellent." As [www.seaworld.org] says "As in most birds, penguin hearing is probably good, but not as acute as that of marine mammals." Also, in a study published by the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences Blackfooted Penguins showed sensitivity over a range of .1 kHz to 15 kHz. Compare this to a study published by The Journal of the Acoustical Society of America in 1989 on hearing in Beluga Whales. They found that the whales were sensitive over a range of .04 kHz to 120 kHz. I would hardly call the penguin's hearing "excellent" after that. The links to the 2 studies follow. [|Hearing in Blackfooted Penguins] [Hearing in Beluga Whales] Logan 19:17, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have added the {fact} tag after those claims in the article to show that they need information if they are to stay.Logan 15:45, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Hearing and Smell Edit - I have changed the statement that Penguins have excellent hearing to they have average hearing for birds. Someone placed my source as support that they have excellent hearing when that is not what it prooved. I have also taken out the statement about their smell not being researched. The information is out there, we are all apparently just to lazy to find it. Logan 21:23, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Meh, I placed that cite there ( I didn't read this page beforehand) and wasn't paying attention, average is certainly a better descriptor of their hearing (although they have impressive capabilities in finding their chicks in crowded colonies, I guess this isn't what they meant. Excellent is a sort of subjective word, perhaps we should look up the range of hearing in the family and include that rather than statements about average or excellent?) As for olfaction I doubt it has been studied, only a few birds have any olfactive abilities (nw vultures, kiwis and procellariids) so it is probably as well out of here. Sabine's Sunbird  talk 21:48, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: General comment

message: Please stop adding category:penguin without consulting the Tree of Life talk pages.  This category in particular is pointless, since there are links to penguin and through the family and order scientific names. jimfbleak 16:14, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: In conventional usage of the categories so far, the article the category is named for is included in the category. Where is this apparent act of enclosure detailed? - David Gerard 18:15, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)

text: Actually i am a penguin maniac and the emperor penguin grows to about 4'. the other thing is waht about the king penguin in south america, the adelie penguin of antartica, and why is there no mention of the jackass penguin[yess that is the real name]. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nuckingfutbar (talk • contribs) 19:34, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: category

message: While on an unrelated edit, I snipped out statements such as (paraphrased) "the line of bubbles behind a diving penguin is due to air being trapped under their feathers" and "penguins can outrun most humans." As to the first, any object, even a fairly streamlined one, will have a trail of bubbles if plunged into water. As to the second, perhaps they can toboggan faster than a running human, but waddline on their two feet? I don't know... --Yath 06:28, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  etc. 

message: In Danish, a penguin is called "Pingvin", not "Pengvin". I don't know how to edit this, or if it is editable at all, but if possible, please correct the error, and tell me how to edit those translations :-)
--MathiasRav 18:35, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong Danish translation 

message: This page says: The Emperor Penguin has been recorded reaching a depth of 875 feet (270 metres) and staying submerged for 18 minutes.
However, the Emperor Penguin page itself says: The penguins can venture down deeper, the deepest diving on record being 565 metres. The longest they can hold their breath when underwater is 20 minutes.
I recently saw the film March of the Penguins, and it seems to support the latter view, at least as far as the diving depth is concerned. The film mentions 15 minutes as the duration it can stay underwater. Could someone consult an authoritative source and correct one (or both) of these pages?
--Chipmunk 03:25, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Record diving depth contradiction 

message: Why isn't there any mention of the top speed of a penguin? I can't seem to find any truly reliable source. This is especially useful when someone doubts Linus Torvalds , which I personally get quite a few of.
:Much more is known about Pressures produced when penguins pooh Polar Biol (2003) 27: 56–58 (link to pdf paper) http://flow.arrr.net/penguins.pdf. So we can inject a bit of humour. I will try to edit that into a new section when possible.
::Oh, I heard about it and got me a copy. It's kinda fun, might even go in there. Either under anatomy or under popculture, as the paper won an Ig Nobel Prize. Dysmorodrepanis 02:23, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Speed

message: No, the subject line isn't a joke.  A friend of mine has heard somewhere that it was once thought that penguins were blessed by god because they walk on two legs, as does god's chosen chordate.  It sounds feasible, but I'm not going to add something so apocryphal to the article - if anyone can find a source for this I'd be fascinated to read it.  I tried searching google, but if the information is out there anywhere then Penguin Books skews the search beyond usefulness. Hughcharlesparker 11:27, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  blessed by god 

message: In March 2006, a new genus of fossil penguins was recognized: the stem penguins, or Waimanu manneringi. Should they be in the classification, or otherwise mentioned? Pengwy 02:37, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Updated evolution and classification sections with this and other fossil penguins.Dinoguy2 17:17, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Did all that, and then some. Now it's time dto kick back n relax. Dysmorodrepanis 21:39, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New penguin genus? + Evolution/systematics 

message: The pop culture section is very long. Should this be branched off into its own article? I've seen this done on a number of other entries.Dinoguy2 17:22, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pop Culture 

message: Are there any sources that verify, or even contend that the penguin is "an unofficial symbol of the United States Libertarian Party." This seems either wholly made up, or some confusion with the open-source/Linux association. Davebug 17:00, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Um, the Statue of Liberty is the Libertarian symbol. --Rory096 06:29, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Penguin = Libertarian Symbol? 

message: :There are 17 to 19 known species worldwide, depending on whether the two Eudyptula species are counted as distinct.
The difference between 17 and 19 is two. The difference between 1 and 2 (Eudyptula) is one. Where does the remaining variance come from? - Samsara (talk • contribs) 16:08, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: 1) Eudyptula might be 2 species = +1. 2) Royal Penguin might be morph (we should have molecular data by now?!) = -1. 3) Rockhopper might be 2 species also = +1. So you get anywhere between 17 and 18 (or indeed, 16, if 1 and 3 are false and 2 is true). Dysmorodrepanis 02:23, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Mol data on rockhoppers available (2 recently diverged spp), on Royal still pending it seems. Dysmorodrepanis 21:40, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Arithmetic: Eudyptula?! 

message: I detect a lack of neutral, academic tone in the section on gay penguins, particularly in the closing: "Whilst humans don't find this to be normal, there are many gay penguins out there!"
The issue should be presented, but in fairness, it should be noted that the gay-penguin phenomenon appears to present primarily in unnatural environments, i.e., captivity. If neutral tone is maintained, a reader will come away from the section without supposing that this article is intended to bear on homosexual behavior by humans.
:While I fail to see the relevance of a discussion of penguin homosexuality for the broad summary of penguin biology other than human curiosity, I must point out, that homosexuality is not confined to "unnatural environments". As a matter of fact, it has been observed in many wild bird species ranging from Adelie penguins to raptors. However, I believe that dwelving into such details will just draw the reader's attention from the essentials of penguin biology that should be distributed on this page. Unfortunately, this page features several sections that just highlight a detail instead of giving a full picture (e.g. "Evolution"). C00ch 13:40, June 20, 2006 (NZST)
::There should be a redirect for some Homosexuality in Nonhumans page or section and more substantial information might go in there. Dysmorodrepanis 02:23, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Social Agenda 

message: Can anyone please cite the source for this commentary? "The couple about whom the book was based, Roy and Silo, would see further interesting developments in their relationship when in September 2005, Silo left Roy for a female penguin, only to come back to Roy in a few weeks." I'm looking all over the net for articles about their reunion, but so far, I've only come across their break-up. Thanks! Kyuu 02:51, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cite source for Roy & Silo 

message: This page was the target of a merge request from Giant Penguin. Redirected that to Palaeeudyptinae where it belongs. Dysmorodrepanis 04:13, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge request

message: how old can a penquin live to?  and and all different penquins, just watched the march of the penquins and want to know how old can they get to be??
 
It depends on the penguin. Emperors usually live 10-20 years  DPM 22:14, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  penquins age? 

message: ???--Colsmeghead 21:34, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: why don't penguins feet freeze?

message: Its a genuine question. If you put the penguin in a relatively warm location, will it start to sweat? (especially with Global Warming warming the world)
I would doubt it. I have never heard that they don't but I haven't heard that any birds do. Most of them don't even need it so probably not. DPM 22:12, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Do penguins sweat?

message: Can someone who knows about Giant Penguins and the subfamily Palaeeudyptinae look at the merge request on those pages.  I think Giant Penguin was a page for people who edit paranormal articles; I think they've tried to merge the paranormal content and a wee bit of scientific content.  I'm not sure if the paranormalists will object to the merge.  Yet it seems silly to have both pages.  Olin 17:32, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Giant Penguin 

message: 1) From Merriam Webster Dictionary:
Penguin - Etymology: obsolete English penguin, 'great auk', perhaps from Welsh pen gwyn, 'white head' (applied to the bird in winter plumage)
2) From the Great Auk article:
"One theory connects names for the Great Auk with the origin of the word penguin, which may have come from the Welsh or Breton phrase pen gwyn, meaning "white head", referring originally to the Great Auk (although the head of the Great Auk was not in fact white, there are two white patches on its face). Later, when explorers discovered apparently similar birds in the southern hemisphere, what we now call penguins, the term was supposedly transferred to them.
It might be of interest to note that in French language, Auks are called "Pingouins" (a word close to Penguin) while Penguins (the southern birds) are called "Manchots" (a word meaning "armless"). Most French people still remain confused, calling Penguins "Pingouins" instead of "Manchots" as the two tyes of birds share many characteristics."
As for this article, the current "name" section here is little more than a big Original Research dump. Most unsourced statements about an ancient "common origin" from PIE or Germanic are rubbish, to say the least, considering that a) Penguins are Southern Hemisphere animals and were obviously unknown in ancient Europe. The closest thing to a penguin known at the time was the Great Auk, which is by far the most obvious connection (see above); and b) all cited forms in modern Germanic languages are loanwords either from English penguin or from French pingouin (see above).
So it seems that some people didn't even care to look up such accessible materials as dictionary etimologies before adding such nonsense to the article. The most obvious evidence mentioned in the references above are only briefly mentioned, whereas a clutter of wild and OR "theories" is given much more than due weight. 
Considering these facts, and if nobody objects, I plan to start a complete rewrite of the "name" section soon. Any suggestions or additions are appreciated.KelilanK 07:38, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think there should be citable references for it. The particular linguistics of this one have been of some interest to ornithologists earlier in the 20th century. You might want to check out Erroll Fuller's Great Auk book for references, or try and search SORA, Springer-Link (which has the complete Journal für Ornithologie archive), etc. Dysmorodrepanis 14:38, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Go for it! Snalwibma 14:43, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

text: A "big Original Research dump"??!! You've got to be kidding!! There is one unsourced statement in that section; all others have citations referring to the entry "Penguin" in the Oxford English Dictionary. What better source do you want? --Śiva 22:50, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Name" Section is a mess - see for instance Merriam Webster and the article on the Great Auk for a better account of the evidence 

message: Please add in external links:
Penguin Video Stock Footage from OceanFootage and link to http://www.oceanfootage.com/stock_video/penguin_video.htm
Thank youFreeflowfun 21:49, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Penguin  Video External Link 

message: I want to ask how are penguins intelligent? They are non-flying birds and can have large brain, but I can't find any information about their brain and intellectual abilities. Til. 29.03.07 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.227.194.147 (talk) 09:30, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intelligence 

message: I've taken out the following short paragraph from the article:
"The Auk of the Northern Hemisphere is superficially similar to penguins, they are not related to the penguins at all, but considered by some to be a product of moderate convergent evolution."
I did so because it uses weasel words, it doesn't cite a source and it seems to be original research.  In wikipedia articles we can't say "considered by some...", we need to say "J. Bloggs, in his paper 'Penguins and Auks (2007)', says..."  --HughCharlesParker (talk - contribs) 13:11, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Convergent evolution with Auks