Talk:Leon Trotsky/Archive 1

message: It says here that Trotsky was expelled from the Politburo in 1927, but under the Politburo of the CPSU Central Committee page it says he was expelled in 1926. I have no idea how to tag it as contradictory, but that might be an idea? I would fix it myself but i'm not a member. 17:36, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradiction 

message: I would like to see a source for the claim that Trotsky's ship was full of gold.  This seems like an anti-semetic attack that would come from a Stalinist.
:It's not a Stalinist claim, for a change. You can find it in the (now mostly forgotten) writings of the "Bolshevism as an international conspiracy of Jewish bankers" folks. Not all of them were Nazis, amazingly enough :-) Ahasuerus 01:50, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lies? 

message: The "ice pick" is a widespread mistranslation: it was an ice axe, a tool used by mountaineers; it had  most of its handle sawn off to facilitate hiding it in clothing. --Jerzy 06:18, 2004 Feb 16 (UTC)
:Actually, mountaineers commonly call their ice axes "ice picks" (Google for 'ice-pick' + 'mountaineering'), so it's not just a matter of a mistranslation. In any case, "ice axe" is a lot less ambiguous. –Hajor 14:02, 5 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not ice pick 

message: Seriously, we need to replace that photo with one of him a tad older.
he looks seriously goofy and hardly recognizable.
--206.172.139.168 05:49, 5 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Replace photo 

message: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he was killed in 1941.
:You're wrong, and you're corrected. Everyking 14:05, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Date of Death 

message: Hello all, despite being a newbie to the English part of the Wiki, I added the section called A Father of Red Terror. I tried to obey all the rules. If you would like to argue, please back up your point with specific references. If need be, I can provide more references for concentration camps in addition to the ones already given by someone in the Lenin article.
Also, cannot help but notice (do page search): "He was expelled from the Soviet Union in 1929" and later, "Trotsky was deported in 1928". Which one is true?
Guinness man 08:46, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Both are true: internally deported [to Alma Ata] and then expelled the next year. --DuncanBCS 21:15, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: That was many many many versions ago :) Ahasuerus 21:34, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Red Terror, misc corrections 

message: I'm not sure the name is correct on this page. I've seen stuff signed by this man, and he put an accent on the "e". Should we not move the article to the correct spelling of his French name, Léon Trotsky? I put a redirect on that spelling in the interim. --Grcampbell 16:00, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Léon or Leon 

message: The criticism section is being used as a freepass for false and strongly worded attacks against the subject of this article.  These are not even valid criticisms, in that they do not even represent the real critics of Trotsky... Find some real critics of Trotsky, quote them and cite their works.  Do not take quotes directly from Trotsky to be used as critiques (how can a person critique themselves...?)
::Since nobody disputes this, the criticisms section will be removed.  Anyone is free to add a better written one.  I would like to reserach and write a coherent criticisms section, but I am very busy with college atm.  If anyone else is interested feel free to ask help for any research you will need to do.  The criticisms section should definetly have past criticisms mostly, since Trotsky was mostly influential (he was an avid critic of Stalin.....) during 1920-40.  Contemporary criticisms would belong in trotskyism wouldn't they?  Unless this article begins to cover Leon Trotsky's current influence... but again... wouldn't that be trotskyism?--So Hungry 22:05, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  rewrite critcism 

message: I removed the photo okhranka_mugshot.gif on the "Revolutionary activity" section because I think it was overcrowded: not so much text, so 2 pictures disturbed reading flow. The remaining photo is more than enough, it's clearer and gives us a pretty good idea of what Trotsky looked like at the time. The curious can always look for more in the commons.
This also goes for other sections: there's far too many photos on top of each other. Either we spread them more evenly throughout the page, or we should remove some. I'll try something here in the future. --koenige 19:16, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  removed okhranka_mugshot.gif 

message: The book was quoted in the Criticism section, but then the whole section got zapped pending a rewrite, so the answer to the question is "No, not at the moment" :) Ahasuerus 03:13, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''Terrorism and Communism'' 

message: Starting work on 1918. For a biographer, it's the most difficult period of Trotsky's life with a lot of important things occurring in a compressed timeframe. I am not sure how deeply we want to go here. I suppose it's important to show the roots of Trotsky's conflicts with Stalin and Zinoviev, but should I describe the collision with Smilga in mid-1919, which eventually made the latter Trotsky's friend and supporter (until mid-1929)? I guess I should, otherwise it's hard to understand why Trotsky was sent to the South in July. Ahasuerus 00:27, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Expanded October-November 1917 and added March-September 1918. I am really not sure if this is the right level of detail, though. Am I digging too deep? Not deep enough? Just about right? Ahasuerus 01:47, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: 1918-1922 are done. The article is at 60Kb or so and will be closer to 80-100Kb once all is said and done (need many more footnotes, references, etc). Clearly, something will have to be done. Anybody want to volunteer to write two paragraph summaries of the currently existing high level chapters so that we can move them to separate articles? And, um, I assume somebody is reading this, right? :) Ahasuerus 03:16, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The only advantage of reducing an article from something like 100k to seperate articles of 30-40k is reducing the bandwidth burdern on wikipedia's web server.  I use 28k connection (not even 56k...) and wikipedia loads at just the same rates as when I'm on my campus's high speed connection at their labs.  I think the entire article should contain all portions of Trotsky.  Unless, there is something in this article that is really seperate from the biography of trotsky, like trotskyism for example, and anything contemporary would go there as opposed to in this article.  Tell me what you think.--So Hungry 23:30, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, the larger the body of the article, the more likely it is that your typical casual reader may jump right to the section that he is most interested in, usually the section that relates to the article that led him here in the first place. For example, if the reader follows the "Leon Trotsky" hyperlink in the "Stalin" article, then he will be most likely interested in Trotsky's conflict with Stalin in 1922-1928. But when he jumps to that section, he will be bewildered by references to Zinoviev, Kamenev, Smilga and other actors whose significance was explained 10-30K earlier. I am not sure there is an easy way to fix the problem, though. Ahasuerus 13:10, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: A rough draft of 1918-1928 is finished. Still need to flesh out 1926-1927, especially re: the issues that the Opposition and the Stalinists disagreed on, plus add sources and attributions throughout. Then onto 1929-1940, although the current version is not too bad. Ahasuerus 03:34, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm yeah it is more difficul to scroll a large article as opposed to one that is 2 screens.  But I gotta say that the ToC solves just that problem, although for those who do not normally use the ToC and like to scroll, that would be an annoyance for them unless they figure out how to use the ToC someday.  If you can come up with a really good multiple article organization then go for it.  I firmly think that the organization should be... what we in the computer sci would say, very well encapsulated.  That is, divide it up into seperate articles which strongly relate to 1 subject and then put all relating contents into that article and only that article.--So Hungry 18:32, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  1918-1928 

message: In performing disambiguation link repair I somehow managed to screw up the link for the language labeled "zh" and my browser doesn't have characters that would allow me to fix it.  If someone with the proper characters could change the word for that language back to what it was in the previous version, I'd appreciate it. --te</b>t 04:33, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we are OK now. And thanks for the disambiguation help :) Ahasuerus 11:30, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Language issue 

message: DuncanBCS added a lot of links to the above. I think they belong in the article "Trotskyism", not here, so I say they should be removed. CPMcE 00:25, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: If my eyes are not deceiving me, he just reordered the URLs, although some of them do look like they could be moved to Trotskyism or at least better labeled to show how they relate to this article. Which reminds me that I still need to expand 1930-1940 when I get a chance... Ahasuerus 01:37, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Links to various modern day Trotskyist organisations 

message: I would argue yes:
role in organising the October Revolution:
Petrograd Garrison alliegience
Chairman of Petrograd Soviet
Supported Lenin on Central Committee
Planning of takeover
role in civil war:
Organising/Coercing/ecouraging Red Army
increasing red army size to 2 million in a few months
ruthlessness
If you want to see my rather more detailed essay on this please ask
Discuss!
-- 21:04, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Excellent point! --DuncanBCS 17:41, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Was Trotsky Crucial to the success of the Bolshevik Revolution? 

message: User:Dahn removed Trotsky from these two categories, without explanation. I'm putting them back in. Camillustalk|contribs 23:45, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I now understand that User:Dahn and User:Wknight94 are involved in a project to tidy up these categories. Camillustalk|contribs 01:04, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Categories: Communists, Russian Revolution people 

message: According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Article_size this article is way too long and should somehow be spit up.  It is currently 95kb which is much more than the reccomended 20-30kb.  Hell, its over twice as long as this talk page.Shadow demon 01:44, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It isn't really any fault of the writers that this article is so large. Trotsky accomplished much. The article could be split up. This would be nice for those who do not want to download 95kB (aprx 32 seconds over a 28kbps connection). However, 32 seconds isn't that much compared to slicing this article into categories that must be browsed thru. Either way, a large artile is going to require a minor amount of time to browse through and/or download no matter how it is organized. Slicing it up into seperate articles can increase this time for everyone (requiring the user to read through the article and find the links they want instead of just displaying the content, the user must now find links to the content...), even the dial-up user (who must d/l the template again, for each sub-article).--So Hungry 02:07, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe splitting this up into several articles is a very good idea.  I agree that he accomplished much in his life, but so did Stalin (76 kb), Hitler (86 kb), Dubya (61 kb), FDR (84 kb), and on and on and on.  I can't find a single article in a few minutes of searching that has over 90 kb.  Trust me, I'm not saying that the information shouldn't be in Wikipedia, but rather that many readers aren't necessarily going to be willing to read a book to get some basic dates and facts on this guy, and that the really in-depth info would be more appropriate in a different article (or articles).Shadow demon 07:23, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Way too long 

message: Was Trotsky killed by an Ice Axe or an Ice Pick? Look at this picture: , I say it's an Ice Axe! 
Bronks 17 January 2006
It's an ice axe. --DuncanBCS 09:30, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ice Axe or Ice Pick? 

message: The hebrew wikipedia claims that Trotsky was convinced that the jewish people had no future as a nation and sided with assimilation. Maybe this should be added to this article? --UVnet 01:00, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: * This is a useful interview, thank you Bronks. It seems to disprove both the idea that Trotsky was an 'assimilator' (indeed, he rejects the term explicitly). Far from saying that the Jewish people had no future, he argued that socialism is the most effective way to win an independent Jewish state. Bronks: seriously, many thanks. I have had this pamphlet 15 years but had totally forgotten Trotsky's conclusions. I don't speak Hebrew, but this correction would be worth pointing out to colleagues on the Hebrew Wikipedia. --Duncan 19:29, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *In the communist tradition, the right to self-determination can exist, but need not always be used. I don't recall Trotsky's position, but certainly many communists have recognised the right to a Jewish state, while opposing it as a strategy for fighting anti-semitism. Again, we need to cite source material here. --Duncan 18:07, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There is an excellent survey of Trotsky's view in Enzo Traverzo's book on the Jewish Question. Trotsky's view is presented as being quite distict from that of other, earlier, Marxists. --Duncan 19:14, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trotsky's view on the future of the Jewish community 

message: Poskrebyshev, a supporter of Stalin, Eitingon and an Armenian, possibly called Gaik
Ovakimian were also taking part in the murder. The spelling "Eitigon" is sometimes used.
I have removed the remark about Trotsky's chess-playing cousin.  I see only the vaguest relation to the life of the subject. If someone is terribly attached to this, throw it into the trivia section.  JGray 00:23, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Assassination Issues 

message: There seems to have been an earlier atttempt on Trotsky's life by Stalin in 1938. It is referred to by Conquest in "The Great Terror".
:So you're saying Stalin physically tried to kill Trotsky? Look there is a difference between Stalin saying "I want this man to be killed" (proof?) and someone who is a Stalinist that tries to kill Trosky for his views.
-G —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 134.117.157.66 (talk) 22:41, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible earlier attempt 

message: What is he doing in the Mexican Jews category?  Unless he was naturalized, I think he should be removed.  I think this category is meant for Jewish people whose ancestors have settled there or who naturalized there, not someone who lived there as an exile in adulthood and doesn't otherwise have a personal connection to Mexico.
:No, this is crap, I have removed it. Bronks 13:33, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trotsky a Mexican Jew? 

message: I've started writing an article on My Life (Leon Trotsky autobiography). 
-Bronks 13:33, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  My Life 

message: yeah, quite good article...--Walter_Humala wanna talk? 04:00, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article 

message: i know very little about trotsky and can say that this article was little help at all.   it is overly long and detailed.  wiki articles should be ~20kb or so but this one is currently over 100kb.
could the trotsky experts try to nail down a few key elements and move the details off into other articles so us poor noobs can get a handle on the man?   i know it is tough to decide what is important and what isn't quite as important but you'd be doing the world a service if you gave it a shot.
thanks fellas
YkstortNoel 06:57, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  time for some cleanup 

message: There a link to an online discussion between two people on the Maoist Internationalist Movement site that merely asserted (rediculously of course) that Trotsky was in league with Japanese Imperialism. There were no citation, just the one sentence. IT has no business on a wiki extranal link list. I also added the Leon Trotsky Internet Archive link direcly.
Hope all this is ok
--David Walters
:Thanks David. --Duncan 12:01, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed External Link 

message: This article looks brilliant - how about a renomination for Featured status?
Also, I removed this picture, as it was stuck in an awkward place, and we already have one of Trotsky's grave.--90.240.34.177 00:48, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Renominating for Featured article 

message: Many quotes of Trotsky are linking to this source: http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/worst.html
This doesn't seem like a very good citation to have for an encyclopedia (we're citing quotes of Trotsky by linking to an unauthoritative web page of quotes of Trotsky), especially since it is totally unnecessary: the full text of Trotsky's writings are available online and can be linked to directly.  I propose removing this citation from the article, and citing the quotes with links directly to the full text.  Are there any objections to this?  Otherwise I'll go ahead and make the change.Bluevanagon 18:09, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: People feel very simply: one more massive deletion without discussion and you will be blocked from editing. `'mikka 00:16, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: These deletions have been shown to be unwise, since a revert war is opening up. It's clearly highly POV to add in, or weed out, references to Trotsky's civil war role in such a highly partial way. I suggest we win agreement here and stop editing that part of the page, reverting it to before the start of these edits. What do people think?  --Duncan 15:10, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm happy to discuss any issues people have with the page and try to reach common ground or mutual understanding. TheQuandry 15:13, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: OK ابو علي 15:25, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Longer Trotsky quote seems fine. I think there have been issues in the past with over-long quotations (in some cases, if you're using a great deal of text it may even be considered copyvio), but if you want to include the rest it doesn't bother me. TheQuandry 16:08, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The "longer quote" was mostly just combining the two pieces of the quote that were already on the page into one place.  Now  we have the part about the train twice.  Why not just have the full quote first and ditch the second instance?Bluevanagon 01:32, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

text: My goal was primarily to reduce the size of this monstrous article.  It is probably about 3x too large.  Where do we think we should cut?  Also, is anybody defending the use of the worst.html source?  Otherwise will someone remove it?  These citations should be replaced with links to full text.Bluevanagon 00:48, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I did attempt to cut down the size of the article and make it less of a hatchet job. But my edits were reverted. ابو علي 08:51, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I agree about "Trotsky in the arts". But Trotsky's contribution to theory is extensive and an important part of his notability, so a summary should stay in the main article. ابو علي 15:10, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, but his philosophies and theories are important enough to have their own articles, so maybe we can slim the summaries down a bit? I'll delete the Trotsky in the arts junk. TheQuandry 17:24, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I give up. Y'all can work out amongst yourselves what to do about this. TheQuandry 19:57, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I changed my mind. I came back and deleted the trivia-like section. As someone else put it very nicely on the discussion page of a different article: WP: Not a paper encyclopedia does not mean that an article can bloat indefinitely. TheQuandry 15:23, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Fine. But do we have a good source for the Blocking Units claim? Otherwise they should be removed from the article? ابو علي 08:48, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I will try to look up in Russian language sources. `'mikka 19:28, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Can anyone tell us what the relevant passage of Dmitri Volkogonov's book actually says? Do we have any other references? We need multiple reliable sources to establish notability. ابو علي (Abu Ali) 00:17, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm removing this: 'Though he and Trotsky were later to become mortal enemies, Stalin was influenced by Trotsky's use of disciplinary measures, and expanded the use of blocking units well into World War II', since it is unreferenced, disconnected from the the text around it (this is the only current mention of blocking units in the article, for example), and is apparently not notable in an article about Trotsky (give reliable references of this statement to establish notability if you disagree).  Perhaps this is suitable in the article about Stalin? wes 05:35, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

text: No opinions on this?  How long should I wait before removing this citation?? Bluevanagon 01:06, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I plan to on Wednesday, March 07 remove references to the worst.html source and replace them with direct sources, when I can find them, and citation needed tags when I can't.  This will have been a week without anybody responding to the issues here.Bluevanagon 17:07, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Again, the English page cited in the current [14] is apparently irrelevant to the quotes it is citing.  We need something other than the Russian page.  Where did these English-language quotes come from?  Are they a translation done by the editor who put them in the wiki?  I think if we can't source the English quotes, they have to go.  I plan on replacing [14] with a citation needed tag on Wednesday, March 07.Bluevanagon 17:17, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source choice and "slimming" 

message: Can we have a reliable source for this? i.e. not http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/worst.html ابو علي 20:36, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fine. But do we have a good source for the Blocking Units claim? Otherwise they should be removed from the article? ابو علي 08:48, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I will try to look up in Russian language sources. `'mikka 19:28, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Can anyone tell us what the relevant passage of Dmitri Volkogonov's book actually says? Do we have any other references? We need multiple reliable sources to establish notability. ابو علي (Abu Ali) 00:17, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm removing this: 'Though he and Trotsky were later to become mortal enemies, Stalin was influenced by Trotsky's use of disciplinary measures, and expanded the use of blocking units well into World War II', since it is unreferenced, disconnected from the the text around it (this is the only current mention of blocking units in the article, for example), and is apparently not notable in an article about Trotsky (give reliable references of this statement to establish notability if you disagree).  Perhaps this is suitable in the article about Stalin? wes 05:35, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Blocking Units

message: The section on officers' families needs a real source.  The current [14] links to a Russian page and an English page which doesn't contain the quote being cited.  The only other source we have for this is the http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/worst.html page.  What do people think?Bluevanagon 01:29, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No opinions on this?  How long should I wait before removing this citation?? Bluevanagon 01:06, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I plan to on Wednesday, March 07 remove references to the worst.html source and replace them with direct sources, when I can find them, and citation needed tags when I can't.  This will have been a week without anybody responding to the issues here.Bluevanagon 17:07, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Again, the English page cited in the current [14] is apparently irrelevant to the quotes it is citing.  We need something other than the Russian page.  Where did these English-language quotes come from?  Are they a translation done by the editor who put them in the wiki?  I think if we can't source the English quotes, they have to go.  I plan on replacing [14] with a citation needed tag on Wednesday, March 07.Bluevanagon 17:17, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Officer's families 

message: This link is a victim in the current reverting. However, it's an article that is inferior to our own, and biographyshelf.com seems to be a blog-level source. I suggest we keep it out. --Duncan 15:14, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: agreed ابو علي 15:16, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Okay, it does look pretty borderline. Go ahead. TheQuandry 16:05, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link to biographyshelf.com 

message: consider this quote from the article:
At a meeting of his faction at the Tenth Party Congress in March 1921, Lenin said:[22]
    I have been accused: "You are a son of a bitch for letting the discussion get out of hand". Well, try to stop Trotsky. How many divisions does one have to send against him? [...]
    We will come to terms with Trotsky. [...]
    Trotsky wants to resign. Over the past three years I have had lots of resignations in my pockets. And I have let some of them just lie there in store. But Trotsky is a temperamental man with military experience. He is in love with the organization, but as for politics, he hasn't got a clue. 
It seems like the only source for this is the Richard Pipes book, in which case it is not notable enough for inclusion in the article.
thoughts on removal of the quote?
It is a quote by someone else, about Trotsky, with ratio of content to context almost as low as conceivably possible. Bluevanagon 19:14, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: the quote does seem dubious to say the least and should be removed ابو علي (Abu Ali) 10:36, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lenin Quote from 10th congress 

message: In Leon Trotsky#Assassination there is a sentence in parentheses about his granddaughter being a brain specialist.  It doesn't appear to be at all relevant to the paragraph it is within.  I suggest that it be removed.  The Behnam 20:07, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confusing 

message: Since this article is so long, is it perhaps appropriate to have a longer summary at the beginning (3-4 paragraphs about his life and historical significance)?  What do people think about this? Bluevanagon 18:58, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The lenght of the summary is irrelevant to the lenghth of the article. If you think that some fundamental, definitive statements about Trotski (comparable in importance to these already in the intro) are missing, you are welcome to add. Otherwise no need to bloat the text. `'mikka 21:47, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The reason it may be relevant, is that currently the article is far too long for someone to read through who just wants to find out basically who Trotsky was.  See above for users complaining about this.  Seems like it would help out to have a more comprehensive summary.  I'm not pushing hard for this, but I don't see why you think this has no use! Bluevanagon 05:48, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Longer Summary appropriate? 

message: I wonder whether this artwork was worth adding to the section "1917":
http://net.lib.byu.edu/~rdh7/wwi/memoir/RusRev/images/rr20b.gif
It is a reporoduction in english of the declaration that the provisional government has been overthrown, in the name of the military-revolutionary committee.
Russian original at http://net.lib.byu.edu/~rdh7/wwi/memoir/RusRev/images/rr20a.gif
Or maybe as a citation if there's a problem with copyright (which I don't know anything about). 
It backs up the reference to the Military-Revolutionary committee, and of course posters were a vital method of communications of the period.
Andysoh 13:35, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Declaration of Nov 7 1917 by the military-revolutionary committee 

message: I have separated out the final two paragraphs under "Last Exile" , formerly part of "Assasination" to a new subsection, Heritage"
DGG 04:56, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  new subsection 

message: Please share your thoughts on the matter at this article's entry on the Articles for deletion page.DGG 04:56, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  AfD on [[List of Trotskyists]] 

message: *"Permanent Revolution" A concept album by the popular ska band,Catch 22, tells the story of Trotsky's life.
It happend to be true,  so perhaps it could be kept in? Perhaps it was deleted on the assumption it was vandalism, but lets give credit to the band? 
Andysoh 23:02, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  *"Permanent Revolution" A concept album by the popular ska band,Catch 22, 

message: I like longer articles but this one is way to long. We need to sumarize articles and remove extraneous details. Any information that is moved should be moved to other articles. Plus this talk page is a bit long too. Archive time. YaanchSpeak! 00:33, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am getting 99kb article size warnings when I read the page, a lot of the political stuff and maneuverings can be split off or summarized. --Eqdoktor 04:09, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I don't really agree in this case. There are two split offs already, including "Trotskyism" which deals with the main political stuff. My thoughts are: Consider the central significance of the bipolar world from 1917 to 1990 (e.g cold war, arms race, communism and anti-communism) for the 20th century. Now Trotsky jointly led the Russian revolution with Lenin (so that, it is reported, some people thought "lenin-and-trotsky" was a single person). His critique of the Russian revolution's development under Stalin after Lenin's death is therefore highly significant, and so my thoughts are that this article has no excessive weight, and details the matter in short, generally accessible sections. Andysoh 18:39, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Frankly, I beg to differ. Most of the bulk of this article seems to be dry (very dry) descriptions of political maneuvering that can be summed up in one or two sentences (not massive sections as we have here). While I appreciate some detail is needed, this isn't a detailed bio of Trotsky nor is it a comprehensive political textbook on the Russian revolution / Russian communist party power struggles. Its is an encyclopedia entry on Trotsky. In fact, I suggest that most of the political maneuverings and Russian revolution details be moved into a seperate section (eg:"Power struggles within early communist Russian" ??). A bare bones biographical article of Trotsky would be more than adequate in my opinion, as going into such depth of detail runs the risk of WP:POV - as examplified by the "whitewashing" allegations below. Some attention to Wikipedia:Article size should improve the encyclopedic nature of the article. --Eqdoktor 04:27, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wayyy to Long! 

message: curiously no mention is made of the proofs purporting the claim that the killer of Trotsky was a soviet agent. are we supposed to accept statements as facts without citation to references (not merely some book or some article claiming so, but a proof, such as any recorded result of an investigation into Trotsky's death or a confession by his killer) at least? or is a popular claim, proof? Unsigned comment.
:Books are references. What more would you like? I don't think it's practical to accept that we cannot prove it without a letter from Stalin or the assassin himself.--Duncan 14:07, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Assassinated on Stalin's orders? 

message: I am wondering too why is it a fact that Trotsky was killed by Stalinist agent. And what is an stalinist agent? should it be Soviet Agent, perhaps? Anyway if it is not just rumors or worst, propaganda, I think we should find some reliable source. Yangula 16:52, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed, agent of the NKVD would be a more precise formula. --Duncan 19:24, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Meracdor was convicted in a Mexican court and as part of his trial, he admitted to working with the NKVD.216.203.27.99 23:43, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Assassination 

message: Once again we have an article that speaks with forked tongue.  Was his original birth name Lev (as per the lede) or Leiba (as per lower down in the story)?  --  Jack of Oz  ... speak! ...  07:21, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The original name is Leiba. Lev is a "translation" of his name into Russian and most commonly used. Those names are often considered to be interchangable. If in doubt - use Leiba.--80.232.251.18 (talk) 17:00, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Leiba or Lev? 

message: I gave three reliable sources showing that in his last years Trotsky supported Zionism:
 
But user User:RolandR for a reason reverted my edit. After entering his page I saw he is clearly a biased anti-Zionist. Is it ok that reliable references are deleted because some Anti-Zionist doesn't like that? What about NPOV?
:Trotsky always explicitly opposed Zionism; he never wavered in this. Two of the sources you cite actually repeat this, and do not support your interpretation. The third is a totally unreliable blog whose purpose is "defending Israel, defending Jews against antisemitism, support for Serbs, unity of Serbs and Jews". Your edit is completely untrue, it lacks any reliable sources (which would not be available since the suggestion is totally false), and is impermissible. RolandR (talk) 09:48, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  The Russian regime under the USSR was anti Zionist and anti Semitic. The reason for this appears to be to drive the Jews to Israel although many died in Russia.207.119.116.76 (talk) 15:19, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trotsky, Zionism and revert war 

message: I can't believe someone hasnt taken the time to create a proper bibliography for trotsky. these are all external links to marxist websites. he did write books that were published using paper, and are in libraries around the world. Wikipedians of the world, unite! you have nothing to lose but your bracketed external links!Mercurywoodrose (talk) 04:59, 25 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The links are, overwhlemingly, to works by Trotsky. It's more useful to link to the book or article online than to the ISBN of the book. If we can thing, as you have done, that is great. But it's not a problem to link to Trotsky's works online. --Duncan (talk) 00:42, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, i think its more scholarly to show the original context of his works publications. I agree that linking to actual texts, if they are not copyright violations, is fine, but that would be better in an external link section. From this article section, one wouldnt know if the pieces linked to were, say, pamphlets, or essays that got published in newspapers or magazines not purely marxist, or books published by either general publishers or marxist publishing companies, or collections published posthumously by university presses or communist government publishers, etc etc etc. all these distinctions would help show Trotsky's actual notability both within the history of communism and outside it, including its critics. as it is, the section being all external links makes it look promotional, just the sort of thing a curious reader would think that a committed marxist of some stripe might do, to disguise the notability and promote their hero, thus leading a curious reader to suspect that there are actual cabals making sure certain subjects are not covered impartially. We really dont want WP to become like that, and even the appearance of impropriety is to be avoided. i make no assumptions about the motives behind all the external links, it just reads wrong to me. but i wont make changes without some consensus.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 03:54, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bibliography 

message: Rodina is a Russian historical illustrated journal established by the Administration of the President of Russian Federation. This particular article came from volume 2 for 2002, so hardly news.
Lev Anninsky is a well known literary critic and writer in Russia with his own Wikipedia article http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%BD%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9,_%D0%9B%D0%B5%D0%B2_%D0%90%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B4%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87
Maybe you can get a Russian speaker to fix the translation since I just don't have the time, sorry  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.18.10.134 (talk) 23:53, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This is unreferenced. I don't think we can use it. I have put a machine translation below. --Duncan (talk) 23:25, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Real Trotzky birth information 

message: Was Trotsky villified in the PRC? Did this villifcation continue after the Sino-Soviet split? BillMasen (talk) 14:05, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Villification -- China? 

message: Hi,
I thought a bit strage that the heading bio information didn't include place of birth and place of death.  Furthermore, I was surprised to find out that the article attributes his death to illnes, when it is widley know that he was murdered in mexico city.  Both facts (place of birth and death and the assasination) can be corroborated in the spanish translation (amongst many others.. but to save some time...)
I am o tchanging anything, I just wanted to point out the conflit between the information in english and spanish versions.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.102.65.87 (talk) 01:32, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The article has a section on the assasination here. --Duncan (talk) 14:48, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Biography 

message: The article uses both but does not explain why and why that's okay. 94.222.152.232 (talk) 18:51, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks - yes, we should be consistent. I've changed 'Bronstein' to 'Bronshtein' in the article, as that was used by us more often. Transliteration of names in Cyrillic languages is often problematic, and I've seen it spelt either way in many places. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:12, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bronshtein vs Bronstein 

message: There are Freemason sites listing the works of Trotsky. His membership is without dispute. FM will delight in the Communist revolutionary among their membership.207.119.116.76 (talk) 15:23, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trotsky as Freemason 

message: An image used in this article, , has been nominated for speedy deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Copyright violations 
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thread_title:  File:TrotskySlayingtheDragon1918.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion 

message: Why so little mention about Red Terror and War Communism. More needs be mentioned about Trotsky's role and the effects of the policies on the people.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.168.116.57 (talk) 16:53, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  AGREE - Historians estimate the deaths in which Trotsky had a hand in the millions. The whitewashing of socialist icons on Wikipedia is a disgrace. 82.143.250.163 (talk) 15:09, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Which sources would you use for including this information?·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 16:05, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

text:  DISAGREE What is really disgrace is the anticommunist fascist-style myths in the "free media". --Javalenok (talk) 07:35, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Red Terror and War Communism 

message: From the portion involving the Russian Civil war, "The reorganization caused yet another conflict between Trotsky and Stalin in late " This is the first time any interaction between Stalin and Trotsky is mentioned. Considering the later impact between these two personalities clashing, there should probably be a greater emphasis on earlier interactions between the two. 66.60.183.188 (talk) 19:53, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Early Conflict with Stalin 

message: This is an excellent detailed biography, if a bit of a whitewash, but it's about 10 times too long for an encyclopaedia entry. I'd squish everything until 1917 into about four paragraphs, no separate headings, and the same for the exile bit.Sartoresartus (talk) 11:29, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't believe there is such a thing as "too long for an encyclopedia entry" when the encyclopedia is not on paper. The article is on the upper side of the WP:SIZE recommendations, but such drastic condensation as you suggest seems unwarranted. ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 15:11, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Well it is if you expect to spend a reasonable -- as opposed to an excessive -- amount of time looking something up, which is where for all the hard work of the editors this falls down.Sartoresartus (talk) 13:41, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Length 

message: How come - such a huge article and not a single word of Trotsky being a person responsible for slaughtering of millions of people in Soviet Russia and later USSR, far worse than Hitler, one of the bloodiest tyrants in history, by the way? Something is not quite right here, so to speak, euphimistically. Not ever a "controversies" section? What is happening here? Can anybody explain? Why don't we remove the genocidal verses in Hitler's article then? What's wrong with you people?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.171.197.14 (talk) 14:15, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: What's wrong with us? We base articles on credible sources, not the rantings of random ignorant people, that is what is wrong with us... AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:43, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It looks like, somehow, IP is confusing Trotsky with Stalin (who was, indeed, a tyrant comparable with Hitler). IP, AndyTheGrump may be a grump, but he is right. Please do some homework on this. Hamamelis (talk) 16:05, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

text: As a historian, I don't feel like I have any homework to do regarding this matter. Have you done yours? When Stalin came about he was acctually worshipped ( i.e. even before a forced cult of him appeared) by the Russian people for cleansing the party of mass murderers responsible for so called Red Terror (ca 1917-24), like Trotsky-Bronstein, Genrikh Yagoda-Hershel Yehuda, Grigoriy Zinovev-Gershen Aaronovich Radomyslski, Lev Kamenev-Layba Rosenfeld, Vasiliy Bluecher et consortes.--46.171.197.14 (talk) 16:57, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Is there any particular reason that you find it necessary to give the former names of all of these people? RolandR (talk) 17:39, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The OP is clearly no historian. This article is based on reliable sources, not ignorance. There is no need to discuss this further. AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:55, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mass murderer / genocide perpetrator 

message: I don't have editing capability, but the article says in the introductory paragraph that Trotsky was rehabilitated in 2001.  As far as I know, that never happened.
:Removed that claim.  RT's Russiapedia entry specifically says that he was never rehabilitated, and the 2001 date is bizarre. --Nixin06 (talk) 17:34, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rehabilitation 

message: Leon Trotsky[2] (Russian: Лев Троцкий, pronounced [ˈlʲef ˈtrot͡skʲɪj] ( listen); born Lev Davidovich Bronshtein;[2] 7 November [O.S. 26 October] 1879 – 21 August 1940) was a Russian Marxist revolutionary and theorist, Soviet politician, and the founder and first leader of the Red Army.
How  Leon Trotsky was  the founder of Red Army?.It should be Leon Trotsky was  one of the founder of Red Army.so it means Lenin,Stalin,Molotov and Other Commanders was sitting simply  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Raja.m82 (talk • contribs) 07:40, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  How  Leon Trotsky was  the founder of Red Army 

message: So Lenin prefered Stalin over Trotsky.
http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1911/jan/02.htm
Monticores (talk) 08:40, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: That appears to be the purpose of citing those letters.  The contributor did not cite, for example, http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1919/feb/14b.htm, in which Lenin writes, There are no differences between us, and as regards the middle peasants there are no differences either between Trotsky and myself, or in general in the Communist Party, of which we are both members., or http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1922/dec/testamnt/congress.htm, in which he makes the assessment, Comrade Trotsky, on the other hand, as his struggle against the C.C. on the question of the People's Commissariat of Communications has already proved, is distinguished not only by outstanding ability. He is personally perhaps the most capable man in the present C.C., but he has displayed excessive self-assurance and shown excessive preoccupation with the purely administrative side of the work.   --Nixin06 (talk) 10:19, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Judas Trotsky 

message: There is a typo under the caption. In the sentence ″This also has allusion to Russian religion, as the depiction of Saint George slaying the dragon was a wery popular theme in Russian iconography," the word "wery" should be "very."  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Newguynick (talk • contribs) 23:54, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Saint George Depiction 

message: I think this review of the controversy with Patenaude should at least be considered. --Nixin06 (talk) 09:24, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Great call, I am complete agreement. I came here to make the same complaint myself. Service's biography is garbage and, as Patenaude says in his review, the number of errors mean "Service's book is completely unreliable [even] as a reference." His book needs to be expunged from the article. LudicrousTripe (talk) 18:14, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is Robert Service a reliable source on Trotsky? 

message: See Gaik Ovakimian.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.241.17.133 (talk) 09:45, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  1940/1940 

message: I read elsewhere on Wikipedia that at the same time as Trotsky's assassination, several other family members were killed but there is no mention of that on his bio. So, were there other, associated assassination of his relatives around the same time or do those other Wiki pages need to be corrected? 69.125.134.86 (talk) 20:50, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: No, only he was murdered by Ramon Mercader in August. No one else died at the time of the assassination, but his family was devastated in the years preceding it. LudicrousTripe (talk) 17:40, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Family 

message: I notice a reference to Feb. 10 1918 in the section "After the Russian Revolution".  Soviet Russia adopted the Gregorian calendar on Jan. 31, 1918, so that the next day was Feb. 14, 1918.  I am wondering in general, if the article wouldn't be well served by a brief note at the beginning explaining what dates mean.  For a more significant example, the article states that the Bolsheviks gave the land to the peasants on Oct. 25 1917 ("Permanent Revolution") but gives the date of the "uprising" as Nov. 7-8 (World War I).--Richardson mcphillips (talk) 19:53, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Old Style/New style dates 

message: As a graduate from a major university in Political Science and as a student of history, the portrayal of Trotsky and Lenin in Wikipedia is inexcusable. Trotsky was a complete butcher as was Lenin to a far greater extent than Hitler. The entire Bolshevik movement was full of butchers bent on ethnic and political purges (mass murder). It is incomprehensible that these men have received favorable treatment in your online publication. Your treatment of these two is in no way historically accurate. Aaronok1 (talk) 12:26, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia portrayal of Trotsky and Lenin 

message: How could the government fail to rehabilitate someone in the 1950s when the person died in 1940?  Granted, any attempt to change the political beliefs of a dead person would result in failure--but I think that goes without saying.
Change from: "He was one of the few Soviet political figures who were not rehabilitated by the government under Nikita Khrushchev in the 1950s."
Change to: "He was one of the few Soviet political figures who were not rehabilitated by the government."
66.195.191.130 (talk) 17:45, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: "Rehabilitation" does not refer to an attempt to alter a person's political beliefs. It refers to the process by which several Bolshevik leaders, murdered and written out of the history books in the Stalin period, were posthumously pardoned and their legacy reintegrated into official accounts. The written text is perfectly true; although other leaders were rehabilitated, Trotsky was not. RolandR (talk) 21:40, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Date mismatch 

message: Trotsky was in Norway at the time of the 1936 Show trial. When one of his supporters told him about it, he said, "Conspiracy? I can understand that. But the Gestapo?"  — Preceding unsigned comment added by RNMarshman (talk • contribs) 11:08, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Norway