Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Music/Music genres task force/Colours

message: Dear 156.34.211.41. Ok. Heavy Metal includes bands such as Led Zeppelin or Jimi Hendrix and Cannibal Corpse or Mayhem. These bands are not only musically pretty really very different, so these subgenres should have another colour. It is not only mine opinion. Black for extreme metal beacause it very often deals with satanic, occult or just negative and aggressive piont of view, or what do you wanna hear?- that black colour expresses exactly this musical genre? that most of this musicians wear black clothes? That black colour is the coulour of this music or what? And at first - Please stop talking about POV. Show me some objectivity of Wikipedia:WikiProject Music genres/Colours. There are actually no rules for this--Lykantrop (Talk) 08:05, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: All heavy metal related pages should be one color. That color has already been chosen and it's not black. Cannibal Corpse or Mayhem wouldn't exist without Hendrix or Zeppelin coming first. No mater what sub-genre they fall under. They're all just heavy metal in the end. The color needs to be consistent for all sub-genres. Fair Deal (talk) 21:25, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok--Lykantrop (Talk) 10:37, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  black 

message: Nobody at the reggae article was consulted on what would be a representative color, it seems.  Red, Yellow and Green are the representative colors, please don't use purple, and please do not impose "decisions" that are not widely known and then say "See? it's all already been decided on this page that you all did not know about". Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 20:46, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Since green was being used and was free I have changed the color from purple to green. As principle if a colour is being used and there is no clash it seems logical to list that here.--SabreBD (talk) 14:23, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Purple not good for Reggae 

message: Some kind of green is useful for Lousiana based music but the chartreuse (colour) used it rather violent. I would like to argue for a change to something a bit more subtle.--SabreBD (talk) 18:22, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Zydeco etc

message: At the moment the colour used for Reggaeton articles and its sub-genres is red. Is the genre so unique that it should be considered completely seperate from reggae (green) and hip hop (navyblue)? Before you answer, please consider this is the context of Wikipedia as a whole, not just because you love Reggaeton. As it happens red is free as a colour at the moment and I am certainly not against its use, but only if this helps readers, by indicating something very different from the two major genres of music from which it was hybrydized.--SabreBD (talk) 12:58, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Red is being used not just for Reggaeton, but quite a few sub-genres. Others have random colours. If there are no objections in reasonable time I will try to change them all over to red. I cannot see much point in having a single genre with one colour. This would affect the following:
*Bossa Nova
*Mambo
*Merengue
*Música Popular Brasileira
*Reggaeton
*Salsa
*Samba
*Tejano
*Tropicalismo
*Zouk
--SabreBD (talk) 11:40, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Reggaeton and Latin American Music

message: Category	Colour-Code	Colour-Name	Comments
Hi-NRG  	#DDBBBB    	           	includes eurodance,  eurobeat and  new beat
I propose Hi-NRG color separation from electronic dance music and disco music, because of its variety of subgenres. Yea or nay?  ItsAlwaysLupus (talk) 20:15, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Yay as far as I am concerned. There needs to be some differentiation in electronic music, I was just not sure where to put it, this looks like a good plan.--SabreBD (talk) 20:32, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I think it's a good idea, because change is needed, you know something new and fresh. ItsAlwaysLupus (talk) 21:45, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

text: Slight issue is that the colour shown is not #ddbbbb, but mediumvioletred, which is already taken. Which colour is proposed?--SabreBD (talk) 22:04, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: 
      	
Hi-NRG	Color no. 3060D0 (or black) with dbdbbb background. ItsAlwaysLupus (talk) 13:00, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hi-NRG 

message: :Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Music#Remove colours in genre navboxes?
Why are these colours needed the seem a bit WP:OR to me and ignore WP:NAVBOXCOLOUR in the case that no properly identifying, accessible color exists; or the subject of the navbox should not be identified with a particular color (e.g. an average biography), the default navbox color should be used. Gnevin (talk) 15:07, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: This whole color scheme thing does seem unjustified and unnecessary. I note that the entire task force (of which this is a subpage) was flagged as "historical" over four years ago, as being either "no longer relevant or consensus on its purpose has become unclear." Suggest flagging this subpage, as well. --Hobbes Goodyear (talk) 22:07, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Should these be all removed ? Gnevin (talk) 11:07, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually move to the active parent talk page Gnevin (talk) 11:09, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The colours are in fact very useful for the purposes of identification in infoboxes. Whether they are useful in navboxes is another matter.--SabreBD (talk) 23:46, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: How so? Is there any previous discussion you can point us to? --Hobbes Goodyear (talk) 16:20, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Why 

message: This (#efefef) colour appears to be in use for Classical music via the Template:History of Western art music. Would it be ok if I added it to this list? --Devin Murphy (talk) 03:59, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Classical music 

message: Here, I proposed all infoboxes and navboxes on articles in the :Category:Heavy metal and :Category:Heavy metal subgenres namespaces be themed with a black background and silver bold text (I originally proposed the navboxes be themed invertedly, but we may want to keep things uniform).  I think this theme is appropriate considering the genre. I would not mind receiving input from a wide swath of editors, since this has been proposed (albeit not formally) several times in the past. — Confession0791 talk 21:04, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Just to repeat my opposition. The exiting colours are fine and of long standing. They are part of a wider colour scheme (red for rock and variations for punk and heavy metal). I am not even sure this combination will be very easy to see and have not yet seen any rationale for the change.--SabreBD (talk) 22:31, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Just to note, there is no variation for punk rock music. Both rock and punk infoboxes are coded in crimson.--MASHAUNIX 09:53, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

text: What's curious to me, is that Raggaeton, Country, and Tango also fall under the "red" category. So the color scheme you speak of being rock music falling under the red color scheme, it doesn't wash. — Confession0791 talk 06:40, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Metal has become a much wider genre now. It's long away from just a variation of rock. I think the proposed colour changes would be great for Metal. Can we try that out in a sandbox? I'nt know how to do that. canaar (talk) 03:25, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I am still waiting for some kind or rationale for this proposed change.--SabreBD (talk) 16:18, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  Why does The Simpsons have themed templates? It's a matter of pride and making things more interesting for both the editors and readers. That's all. — Confession0791 talk 18:01, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Heavy metal 

message: I changed "new age and space music" to #8d9092 so it would be close to silver and those indicate its relatedness to "electronic music". --Devin Murphy (talk) 11:55, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: New Age and Space music

message: The barbershop music infobox is using #ddbbbb, and has done so since 2009. Since the color is unclaimed and there doesn't seem to be any infobox color yet for a capella genres, I'm going to add it if it's all right with everyone else. LifeofTau 08:44, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  A capella for #ddbbbb 

message: Using white text in headings for both links and plain text hinder usability. Is there another color that would be suitable to differentiate between the two? Going further, is it maybe just time to deprecate the genre colors altogether? Ibadibam (talk) 00:58, 2 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use of white text 

message: Hiya, this is Atomicdowg321. I'm fairly new to Wikipedia.
So I noticed that the genres and sub genres of both Funk and Soul are orange which I personally don't fully agree with. In my opinion,  I think it might be better to have Funk be a different colour, like Teal. Again, this is just my personal preference and doesn't have to be put into effect.
Leave any suggestions you have, cheers.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Atomicdowg321 (talk • contribs) 11:35, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello Atomicdawg321, and apologies for the belatedness of this reply. I do agree that there is enough of a distinct difference between soul, which is generally emphatic and vocal-driven, and funk, which is generally rhythmic and groove-oriented, that separate coloring would not be unreasonable. With that said, I think we should recognize that because there is no set limit to the amount of specifity that can be achieved with the genre categories, we need to be reasonable in how far we allow them to be separated—people will always be able to find additional ways to create new divisions. I think a better change would be to include the funk genres with the gold color category designated for disco, which I find to be much more similar in its characteristics to it than either is to soul. I want to make it clear that I am not inherently opposed to any splitting-off regarding the genre categories, but I believe it should be avoided if an alternative solution can be agreed to be appropriate. As is is the case with your comment, these are nothing more than my opinions, and I am open to further discussion. LifeofTau 20:29, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should Funk be a different colour than Soul? 

message: I think we should have a colour for religious music in general. We have Contemporary Christian and Klezmer, but I think a colour for other forms of religious music in genre would also be quite good. --Rubensbathsheba (talk) 14:38, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Religious music 

message: We have very few colors that have no html names, and all of them could be replaced by almost exact the same colors that have a names. Maybe it is worth changing all such cases? Visually there's almost no difference, but it would be much better and easier to use it and track inaccuracies.
Here are the closest color that I've picked up via :
Genre                                   	Current color without name	New color with name
Heavy metal                             	#BB0022                   	firebrick
Ska                                     	#BB0022                   	darkorange
Samba                                   	#8D8D15                   	olive
Vallenato                               	#ACE1AF                   	darkseagreen
Rumba                                   	#36A667                   	seagreen
New Age and Space music                 	#8D9092                   	grey
***free*** (could be replaced if needed)	#FFCCEE                   	lavenderblush
Blues                                   	#0000E1                   	blue
A cappella                              	#DDBBBB                   	rosybrown
What do you think? Solidest (talk) 16:11, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no objection to such a set of edits, but do have an objection with creation of another "rule" which such could be interpreted as.  North8000 (talk) 16:44, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  I would not call this a "rule", but rather, on the contrary, an opportunity to make things simpler and systematized. Instead of a selection of random shades through the colours palette by ourselves, it is easier to choose from the universally accepted and ready list of presets. And besides, the list doesn't seem to have grown lately, so it's just a possibility to get things in order :) Solidest (talk) 17:00, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, the heading of the section refers to forcing people to do it.North8000 (talk) 20:17, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Force using colors with HTML names only 

message: I think neutral "electronic" gray color should be used for all infoboxes. Infoboxes are meant to summarize content, not add new information. If the sh*t is not found in the article, but you put it into infobox, then it should not be there in infobox in the first place.
The points I want to raise in relation to this issue:
# The uniformity of infobox colors for music genres is an actual manifestation of neutrality. You don't generally see text being colored in scientific articles, and many are still being released in black&white. Same for most encyclopedias out there.
# It drives attention from encyclopedic activity. They say "fusion genres" need to be based on dominant strain in the fusion, but the issue of dominance of a certain strain is not readily available for tons of them. Especially for newer ones. Here the coloring only serves as breeding ground for subgenre holywars. AFAIK, electronic genres were all made gray at one point for this exact reason: too much genre-fistfighting with too little contribution. I remember ragga jungle being green, house and minimal techno being light-gray etc, and goa trance being red, for some reason.
# Related to the previous point, that's why I propose gray color used for electronic genres to be used a default color. There's so much "intermixing" in electronic music, especially in dance genres, that it was wise decision in the first place to set colors aside. That's why situation with electronic genres should be set as example
# Some examples: Broken beat is electronic, but it is jazz at the same time, but someone arbitrarily decided that electronic is "dominant". No mention of that in the article, no discussion of dominance. Nu jazz, on contrary is jazz-pink, no idea why. Cause it's got "jazz" in its name? Why the hell is "acid jazz" ... orange then? Why the hell "new age and space music" is extracted from mass of electronic genres, but musique concrete, drone, ambient, noise music (other huge largely non-rhythmic electronic genres) aren't? Why "kuduro" is (what's that color called?) a shade of light-blue? Based on what and where's that in the infobox color suggestions? I remember oldschool kuduro being raw simplistic techno with dembows, MCs and such from Angola. Sonically not too different from moombahcore and jungle terror, yet kuduro colored completely outside the electronic spectra. I get it, many wikipedians are avid metalheads, and that's cool, but why punk rock is the same color as rock but heavy metal isn't, while explicitly being named as "subgenre of rock" in the lead? You say madchester has more in common with psychedelic rock (colored the same) than Black Sabbath (heavy metal is different color)? Nonsense. Hyperpop is pop while trap music is rap (according to the coloring scheme), makes a lot of sense (/s), that's why every one of the every teen's fav rappers has become a (hyper)pop star in the early 2022. Yea, hyperpop has more in common with ye-ye, than with trap music, makes sense, right. I can go on and on but that's wasting time going further cause any conscious man would already get aware from my examples that the situation is complete mess.
# Other media formats don't have this privilege of coloring. Million subgenres of journalism then why all journalists are colored the same color? Why are all fiction authors? Why aren't movies colored according to their genres? Why aren't albums of music colored according to the "dominant" genre they represent? Think about it a bit. That's because somewhere in the early 2000s some very tribalistic music fan thought it would have been a great idea to make his fav genre a different color, probably because there were so many music fans pirating their stuff online, while movie fans were still in movie theaters.
# Gray reads well on all media, while heavy metal and rap genres with their deep red and blue colors, respectively are a tire to eyes. 
# The removing of colors should be implemented by locking color to gray in infobox code. Few lines to change at most, am i right? AK 178.121.43.158 (talk) 14:19, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Notwithstanding the ridiculousness of the whole idea of coloring for music genres, I still wonder why those wikipedians even associated jazz with pink color in the first place lmao. Pink is somewhat girly, is there research backing the decision to make all jazz pink? For many people, anecdotally, jazz is associated with the bebop aesthetic, which is described as "smoky", "hazy", "dusky", "nocturnal", not pink at all. Why rap is blue, is that because many African americans vote democratic or what lmao. That's all too stupid to be in wikipedia in the first place 178.121.43.158 (talk) 14:35, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

text: This discussion was continued by the above IP user at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Music#Once_again_bringing_up_the_unresolved_topic_of_the_NPOVness_and_unnecessity_of_music_genre_infobox_coloring, so head over there for that. QuietHere (talk) 03:45, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  The whole idea of genre coloring is speculative and needs to go