Talk:Niki Sanders/Archive 1

message: Just to clarify, as of Episode 4, nothing concrete is known about Niki's powers and we should maintain a unknown listing for them until otherwise referenced, correct? --DJ Chair 19:38, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd like to say we still don't have enough information to go on, but the recent episode has offered some explanation. There's still no spec in the article, either. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 22:22, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Power? 

message: I'd like to point out that Mirror Niki, while seeming to be evil, could actually be good. She seems to care about Niki and her son, and the only people she seems to harm are linked to Mr. Linderman. Mirror Niki could also be aware of other people's powers, for example, killing the guys who were playing poker with Hiro and Ando in Episode 6. She may have realized Hiro and Ando were in danger (One of the men had a gun pointed at Ando under the table), which would explain why, for apparently no reason, she got out of bed in the middle of the night and killed them.
This theory could also point her husband out as someone linked with Mr. Linderman.
(Also, with this, I'd like to ask that we don't refer to the other Niki as "Dark Niki" or what have you, because, while she has a ruder personality, its still unknown past speculation whether she is evil or not. This is, unless some form of official Heroes thing calls her Dark Niki, in which case, nevermind.)
207.216.27.61 06:16, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As of last night, it was established that Niki killed those men in the poker game not because she was helping Hiro and Ando, but because she was removing witnesses of her theft from Linderman for which her husband was framed. --Kmsiever 16:58, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Dark Niki has been named Jessica by the writers of the show. It's found here. --68.38.254.119 21:42, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mirror Niki: Evil or Good 

message: Okay, that other guy was saying the episodes' pages require cleanup because the plot descriptions are too long, anyone else bothered about how the character pages currently are? They're basically a detailed breakdown of everything that ever happened to the character, episode by episode.
Wouldn't it be better to condense things a little? Sometimes a character is involved in a storyline that spans 3 episodes, but said storyline could be summarized in a single paragraph.
I've seen other wikipedia pages about characters, and they're mostly about describing the character, instead of writing a detailed synopsis of all scenes he or she participated in. Surely, the storylines the character was in is an important part, but is not the only one, and maybe it shouldn't be so extensive? Renenarciso 01:24, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I raised the same issue in Talk:Hiro Nakamura.  We're only six episodes into the series, and already these character bios are getting too long, describing every little thing a character does in each episode.  Yes, all the character articles need to be revised so they aren't so detailed and have more interesting sentence structure than "In episode three, Niki does this, and then does that, and then does the other thing."  However, these articles are going to be in a constant state of revision as we learn more about the character and their arcs, and what is important and what is not. Primogen 01:50, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Why don't you have the honor of putting it in the article, Renenarciso, and then allow other editors to refine it? Primogen 19:00, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks, I'll do that. English isn't my first language, so I'll let you guys edit it. I was also pondering whether we should note somewhere her relationships with Ando and Texas Tina. They don't seem essential to her character so far, but you never know. Well, I suppose we can always add stuff later when the next episodes prove they were, in fact, essential. Renenarciso 19:13, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Character pages format 

message: Despite the desire of Ace Class Shadow to cast this aside as "sketchy at best", does anyone know anything about this possible connection to One Life to Live?  It just seems way too coincidental:
::Niki Sanders and her split personality Jessica may have been given these names as a homage to the ABC soap opera One Life to Live. That show's principal character, Victoria Lord Davidson, has struggled with Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) for years. Viki has numerous "alters", but the one who emerges most frequently calls herself "Niki Smith". Additionally, Viki's daughter Jessica has been revealed to have DID. Thus far, Jessica has only one alter, who calls herself "Tess".
65.215.37.164 20:20 10 Novermber 2006 (UTC)
I did a Google search on Heroes Niki Viki OR Victoria "One Life to Live", and while I found a few fan forums and blogs that discussed the similarities, I didn't see any new reports, writer interviews, or other legitimates sources that suggest that this is more than a coincidence. Primogen 23:45, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  OLTL connection 

message: Hi guys, I was just thinking, should we rename this "Niki/Jessica Sanders"? Most of the recent show referred to her as Jessica, so, what's everyone thinking? User: brentkc49 16:20, 21 November 2006
I'm thinking it would be like having articles named "Superman/Clark Kent" or "Gollum/Smeagol": clunky and unneccesary.  If Jessica becomes more prominent in the series, then you can always create a redirect. Primogen 23:19, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rename?? 

message: Shown on episode 10 "Six Months Ago," when Niki is sitting in front of Jessica's grave and D.L. mentions Jessica being her sister. I'm not too good at editing so I thought I'd bring this up for someone else to do it. --WarriorofZarona 02:28, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Jessica herself said during the episode that she protected Niki while Hal beat her, so the sentence in question is correct.  However, everything else discussed here is speculation having no place in the article. Primogen 19:17, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, read the sentence carefully--it is inaccurate.  Jessica clearly tells Hal that she protected Niki after the latter (Niki) became Hal's "punching bag" after Jessica's death.  Therefore, the part reading "Jessica protected Niki from their father when he was intoxicated, WHICH EVENTUALLY LED TO HER DEATH AT THE AGE OF TEN OR ELEVEN" is false.  It is very clear that the protection to which Jessica refers is after her own death, not before.  Niki doesn't remember because Jessica is inside her body.  Her protection of Niki couldn't have resulted in her death, since she was ALREADY dead.  It certainly needs to be rephrased, since it is confusing and ambiguous.  Possibly the deletion of the last clause would do the trick.  But I would say that it is completely without ambiguity that Jessica protected Niki after her own death.  Rewatch the episode and listen to what she says--it's very clear.  Niki became Hal's punching bag AFTER Jessica's death.  MahlerFan 23:42, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I came away from the episode thinking that Jessica protected Niki by being Hal's punching bag BEFORE her death.  That's how Jessica came to die but young Niki, apparently, was left alone.  I don't see the evidence for Jessica protecting Niki from Hal after her death.  The appearance of the Jessica alter ego appears to be a recent thing, and it seemed that this was the first time that Hal had met the Jessica alter ego.  If Jessica was protecting Niki from Hal's drunken rampages immediately after her death, why didn't the super-strong alter ego take out Hal years ago? Primogen 00:01, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I could certainly very well be wrong.  I'll rewatch and listen carefully to Jessica's wording.  The main reason I think she was talking about taking over Niki's body after her own death is that this would be a perfect explanation for why Niki does not remember the beatings, since she doesn't remember anything that happens when Jessica takes over.  I'm not so sure that it is a recent thing, just that Niki has only recently become conscious of the missing time, etc., and only later than THAT becoming aware of the Jessica persona herself.  Remember that Micah said he didn't think that she was aware of Jessica.  Watch it closely and so will I...it's also entirely possible that the Jessica alter ego only recently gained the super-strength.  It just seems to me that Jessica said that Niki became Hal's "punching bag" after her death and that she had to protect her at that point--which would also wipe out Niki's memory of the events. MahlerFan 00:19, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Primogen, I thought the same thing.  I'm not so sure now.  I suppose it's even possible that Niki doesn't have a power (she doesn't ahve a tattoo, right?) and that Jessica is the one with the power, who has managed to "cheat death." --Morbid-o 14:53, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I hate to ruin the theory, but, you're still forgetting that both the powers and personality seem to be "new things". I'd imagine Niki's situation is more like Crazy Jane. She has a power, but only her alt knows how to access and control it. It's not so much that Niki can't access her power anymore than Isaac Mendez can't paint sober. The power just has a elusive trigger which, yes, is probably in the brain. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 21:30, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jessica = Niki's sister 

message: Someone who knows more about guns and is slightly insane should link "purchases a sniper rifle" to an article on the sniper rifle featured or to sniper rifles in general. I am, however too incredibly lazy to do this.Lim3Lit1 04:38, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: rifle 

message: I'm curious as to why my reference to Captain Triumph was removed, as it seems that Niki's character was heavily influenced by him. (NM, after logging in I see its because of a "identified as original research and reverted." reason)Johnnystorm 14:52, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How? Without speculating the Jessica is that ghost of Niki's dead sister, how are they alike? Did Niki serve in the military? Was Jessica killed by the enemy? Does Niki/Jessica have all the powers Triumph does? There are more differences than similarities, even if we counted your highly speculative basis for the theory instead of against it. Really, this might be one of the worst comic book comparisons brought up in reference to Heroes. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 00:45, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Golden Age Reference

message: I really hate to sound picky or obsessed or something, but I do think the page could be re-ordered a little.  I just think its weird to mention Niki's (really Jessica's) affair with Nathan before mentioning Niki's split personality.  After all, Niki left Nathan's room, but Jessica took over, beat up a couple guys, then went back and slept with Nathan.  I don't think the real Niki would have done that.  Oh, I don't know; I'm tired and I might have missed something in the article, so it might just be me. --Arwen undomiel 05:21, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re-ordering the page 

message: According to the article, a cam whore is essentially an amateur, stripping or performing acts for favors or goods; Niki appears to be more professional, doing it through an organized porn site for cash. I'd suggest using a different article when describing her work. Radagast 22:01, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Internet stripper ≠ [[Cam whore]] 

message: Would somebody please site this section?  I don't remember seeing that in any of the episodes. 70.252.128.140 21:24, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A New Friend 

message: tracy was shown to be a distinct person, She shouldnt be in this article anymore than peter and his brother should be merged.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.72.241.193 (talk) 17:16, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course Tracy Strauss should have her own article... Later in the Niki Sanders article it clearly states she is one of three triplets, ie. A different person. Therefore, it makes sense that she has her own article, particularly with the discovery of her own new powers etc. and presumably prominent role in Season Three.--Combatir (talk) 13:04, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps if there was more information, this would be easier. An article with only a paragraph or two wouldn't be much good; don't get me wrong, I think there should be a separate article too. But maybe when the character's background and plotline is fleshed out more this will be possible.Theaura (talk) 00:42, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tracy 

message: I don't want to change it in case I'm wrong, but the article says she committed at least ten murders, but only lists nine. Am I missing something? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 38.115.1.4 (talk • contribs).
:Didn't she murder the court-appointed therapist? She snapped her arm in half and shocked her repeatedly with a taser. She looked pretty dead to me. (Ghostexorcist 04:05, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Murders 

message: Ok i have a question i says Niki showed super strenght? when? and aslo if she doesn't i think niki might be a medium ,able to have ghost take over her (like in the Sixth sense), so it would be jessica withe the superstrenght, but died and some how got transfered to niki this also might explain the RNA symbol that appears when jessica is in control- Red spiderman 3/1
:Sign your comments, work on your spelling.  Also, your statement is pure speculation.  Niki shows the superstrength in the episode where DL and Micah visit her in jail - the guard swings a stick at her and purely by reflex she grabs it and snaps it in half. 203.14.180.100 00:37, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So Niki is not allowed to get angry without Jessica taking over?  That doesn't seem quite right.  I think the situation was one where Jessica didn't even have a chance to surface and Niki didn't realise what she was doing.  Much like the other heros, she discovers her powers in a time of great stress.  Padillah 15:57, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jessica 

message: Personally, I don't really think that Superhuman strength adequately described her power... She seems to have improved coordination and skill as well. These attributes are at the very least greatly improved while in "Jessica mode". This is demonstrated with her accuracy with her general skills with weapons but she is apparently very good at being a sniper, etc. She is generally extremely competant with many things she should have little to no experience with; even playing video games. 24.195.243.188 03:52, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It depends on how you view Jessica. If you believe her to merely be another personality of Niki, then yes, super-strength is her power. Ophois 22:39, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jessica's Power 

message: The article says "small-time criminal D.L. Hawkins, was in jail, accused of stealing two million dollars from a sports booker and murdering his own gang."  Stealing $2M and murdering your entire gang is still considered small time?  Your guys "big time" must be very impressive.  I think we can just say "criminal".  Padillah 15:54, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wait a minute!  I'm going to correct myself.  D.L. is not, as we have found out, a criminal.  He was framed by Jessica.  Padillah 16:00, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Small time criminal?  Really? 

message: Exactly where is this coming from?  I don't see any evidence that Niki and Jessica are merging.  Do we have a source for this? WorldsCollide 19:31, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: All right, if there isn't a source, I'll remove it.WorldsCollide 20:24, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I waited two days.  No one responded.  Further, the evidence you presented in your post above is OR. WorldsCollide 22:12, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just because Jessica disappeared and Niki has super-strength now doesn't mean that they merged. Super-strength is Niki's natural power, so she may just have realized how to access it. Ophois 23:33, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Just because Ali Larter said that doesn't mean the writers intend that to happen. And the last episode doesn't hint at all that they merged. It only showed that Niki can access her power now. Ophois 21:34, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I know consensus doesn't mean squat here but I agree with Slick023; just because Nikki can use her power at will doesn't mean Jessica is gone.  This would intimate that Jessica is a trait of Nikki's power rather than a response to the abuse we've been led to believe. Padillah 19:40, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

text: I would also like some source for determining that Nikki is using her power by herself rather than having Jessica using the power.  Since they are both after Micha Jessica would have no problem co-operating with D.L. (heck she's been lying to him for months now).  What are we basing this statement on? (I don't remember the epi very well).  Padillah 16:51, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Didn't we see Jessica in season 2 when she tried to kill Bob in Fight or Flight, and then later in Out of Time. Didn't Maury Parkman's night mare force Jessica to take control, and that was  the reason Niki took the cure (to stop Jessica).
They kinda are merging but they aren't. Niki doesn't have to rely on Jessica to protect her and take care of her anymore since she has finally discovered her ability of super strength. So Jessica won't be popping up as often. Doesn't mean that Jessica isn't going to pop up. Jessica is still that crazy, apathetic, borderline savage and domineering individual so she probably is going to pop up. Maury forced Jessica to take control but under his control. Jessica if released and if she wanted to, could have killed Mohinder when he annoyed her if she just kept punching his face, could have killed Nathan for not getting out of her way and Bob by ripping them both in half, and could've turned around and killed Maury by sending her foot through his chest for trying to control her. She might just killed or beat the daylights out of Matt Parkman, because he is a detective, just to merely keep him quiet and just threaten Molly to keep her quiet too. Though Jessica can be noble and chivalrious when she wants to, Jessica is a beast. We haven't seen the last of her. If Niki survived that explosion and if the third season is called Villains, oh Jessica is coming back. Elemental5293 (talk) 16:38, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Considering that the last post in this section was nearly a year ago, I don't think anyone disagrees anymore. ~Auzemandius {talk/contrib} 03:07, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Niki and Jessica merging? 

message: " The side of her personality known as "Jessica" has at least been a part of Niki since her sister Jessica's death, since she remembers the event while Niki herself does not. "
I'm not real good at psychology (and I'm willing to bet that the producers don't have a psychologist on staff) but I don't think the presence of memories is any indication of the manifesting of a MPD.  She could have splintered much earlier or even much later after even more stress (most people can handle the stress of a sibling dying).  As a means of establishing her "existence" I don't think it stands up to scrutiny.  Padillah 17:43, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Jessica"s history 

message: I must have understood differently but I thought Niki was trying to be "cured" of her powers, not the virus.  Anyone that has had the virus thus far has been bed-ridden and quite ill.  Niki looks healthy, which could be attributed to her increased strength but she would most certainly make sure Micah didn't have the sickness too.  I don't think she was sick with the Virus at all.  Padillah 17:50, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Niki being "cured" 

message: Hey...is thier a reference that her real name is nicole?  just wanderingChrisisinchrist 19:27, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A good question, actually - it was added here but no explanation was ever provided. I've removed it pending a citation (as the alternative was to have a "citation needed" tag on the first word of the article. --Ckatzchatspy 05:44, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not positive, but didn't her father call her that in "Six Months Ago"?Ophois 11:45, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, Niki's father did call her by her real name during his very brief screentime. 64.85.234.166 05:03, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair enough, just had to check. While it's probably not desirable to have a reference on the first word of the article, it might be a good idea to add a hidden comment next to the text to avoid this in the future. Thoughts? --Ckatzchatspy 08:35, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nicole? 

message: D.L.'s page has a Family & Relationships sections, can't Niki have one too? :) --Mjrmtg 02:29, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Family & Relationships 

message: :Image:Heroes nikibadass.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot 05:21, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Heroes nikibadass.jpg

message: The preview for Powerless said two heroes will die. Niki was in a building that exploded, she is one of them. So she is dead. BioYu-Gi! 20:16, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Then this should be simple: Prove it.  Show us where she is dead and we will be fine.  D.L. got shot at the end of Volume One and he didn't die then.  Heck Noah was SHOT IN THE HEAD and he's not dead.  Those were purposely ambiguous cliffhangers, let's see what happens in the next volume.  As another editor is fond of saying, we don't have to scoop anyone so we can take our time and get it right.  Padillah 20:45, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It never said two would die. It said that two heroes would "fall". Though that implies death, it doesn't necessary mean so. Ophois (talk) 22:03, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Plus, how do we know which two heroes are supposed to have fallen?  Maya fell, also.  QuasiAbstract (talk) 17:27, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You know what. That actually makes sense.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Elemental5293 (talk • contribs) 01:36, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Death 

message: :Image:Niki Sanders Season 2.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 20:16, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've updated the fair use rationale.  Colud someone take a look and see if it's sufficient to remove the fair use tag?  Thanks.  Padillah (talk) 20:48, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Niki Sanders Season 2.jpg