Talk:Christopher Columbus/Archive 5

message: This is NOT TRUE. Columbus never once stated where he was from nor did his sons state where their father was from.
It is bad enough the navigator lied about his past there is no need for wiki to lie also sayng that "He had noted in his lifetime that he was born in Genoa, Italy." Please remove this lie. 82.154.80.53 13:50, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Continuing the Lies 

message: No mention of Columbus approaching France for sposorship shoot?Trekphiler 03:04, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: France was Bartolomeo's assignment, so doesn't much belong here. However, France isn't in his biography article, either. Jim.henderson 04:44, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Frenching

message: I think that there is more to say about Columbus.  I especially think that we need to have more in the 19th century and modern thought.  There is more to be said than is being said.  Wrad 05:00, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course much more can be said, and has been said and published by many.  This is intended to be a biographical encyclopedia article, not a thorough historiography.  As it is, despite the small amount that is known about the fellow, it's a long article and better to look through it seeking things to trim than to add.  If a thorough discussion of 19th and 20th century Columbus mythology is a good idea, for example the myths making him a hero, villain or Italian, that discussion belongs in a mythological article, not a biographical one.  One question that remains is, what name to give to a Myths of Columbus article?   Jim.henderson 06:05, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

text: So, quick looks at Andrea Doria and Washington Irving show two shorter and better written articles, about people of whom much more is known.  The former is relevant only as an example of good biography, being about a younger countryman also in Spanish service, but the latter is highly relevant.  Ambassador Irving as far as I know originated the seminal myth of Columbus as Italian, as inventor of the round Earth, and as founding hero of the United States, which in turn evoked the reactionary myth or countermyth of Columbus as pretended Italian, as murderer of millions, and as founding villain of the United States.  So, if one is to discuss those myths and their impact in some detail, a new section of the author's biography would be a good place to begin developing the matter.  Jim.henderson 07:14, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  More to say? 

message: I went to check whether Wilford's excellent book, The Mysterious History of Columbus, was included in the bibliography, and it was -- but someone had added "Ashbel Green" as a co-author, with a wiki-link. The "Ashbel Green" in question (in Wikipedia, anyway) was a Presbyterian minister who died in 1848 and who has nothing whatever to do with Columbus. Nor is there any mention of such a person in the book itself, nor is he mentioned in the Library of Congress listing. I have therefore removed Green's name from the bib citation (and corrected the publisher's name). It seems an odd sort of vandalism, though. Anyone know anything about this? --Michael K. Smith 17:01, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ashbel Green? 

message: Although it is commonly taught that Columbus died believing his official reports that he had opened up a direct nautical route to Asia, his own journal shows that he was, in fact, well aware that he had established a nautical route between Europe and a "new continent".
and
When he died he was still convinced that his journeys had been along the east coast of Asia
Which one is it?
:I shan't claim the power to settle the question, but this bio article is already overlong, and perhaps both opinions should be removed to the separate "voyages" article where any evidence that may be offered either way can be compared in more detail.  Jim.henderson 01:05, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you, and I just now deleted these items and a few others.  Everything I deleted, went because I think it is already discussed better in the linked articles, or is unsure of being true, or it more properly belongs in those other places.  Kindly continue inspecting the present article for more material that ought to be sent instead to the linked articles, or simply deleted.  Those other articles deserve similar scrutiny, though perhaps those should get a few additions as well as subtractions.  Oh, could you quote, here in the talk page, the relevant passage of the Levin book?  Or better, the journal, preferably in the original language unless no version is available except a translated one?  Jim.henderson 21:41, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradiction of Final Discovery Belief