Talk:African diaspora

message: Some of the European entries are apparently counting people from the Maghreb.  Those are North Africans, not sub-Saharan Africans - i.e., they aren't "black". 69.129.36.50 (talk) 20:42, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Read the title; African diaspora not Black. The same as Haitians are black but not African. But yes I think they meant to say Black not African coz most Blacks in US or Brazil haven't been to Africa 197.186.1.245 (talk) 16:00, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moroccans/Maghrebians 

message: Where is the citation for this? Where are these numbers coming from?? --128.122.209.207 (talk) 17:01, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Largest 16 African diaspora populations 

message: In italy there are 2,670,514 africans!!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.35.230.81 (talk) 13:04, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Africa diaspora 

message: And in France are 3,000,000 mllion, is not true 4,200,000!! tha africans include,
 in Italy are 2,670,514 million.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.35.233.71 (talk) 13:13, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Africa diaspora popolations 

message: I'm not sure if this point applies to diaspora groups in other countries but in the U.K. it is now generally preferred if we refer to African-Caribbeans as opposed to Afro-Caribbean, as used in the article. This is similar to African-American, whereas one would not hear the term Afro-American and the use of the prefix Afro may be seen to have offensive connotations.
Atteridgeville (talk) 09:44, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Accepted terminology in reference to African diaspora groups 

message: The Africans immigrants in Italy 2010, are 1 milion!!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.35.240.138 (talk) 15:51, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Africa diaspora popolations 

message: Please!! control in Demo ISTAT 2009 stranieri residenti in Italia!!the africans are 931,000  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.35.248.141 (talk) 21:59, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Africa diaspora popolations 

message: control!!! http://demo,istat.it/str2009/index.html  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.35.253.238 (talk) 00:06, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Africa diaspora popolations 

message: The total are 931,000 Africans in Italy in 2009!! please control in demo ISTAT 2009  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.35.229.91 (talk) 14:24, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Africa diaspora popolations 

message: there are only about 350,000-400,000 blacks in the european part of France but if you include the black populations of the overseas departments then the black population for France as a whole is over 1 million  for example  there are 200,000 blacks in the  paris region of ile de france(population 12,000,000) but in comparison the city of london england(population of 8,000,000) has 1,100,000 blacks,that means london has way more black people than all of  the european part of france.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.250.236.192 (talk) 14:04, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  France 

message: Isn't the use of this term just a cover for the Neanderthal slur, painting other people as being not pure Homo sapiens sapiens, even though no firm evidence of crossbreeding has been offered? Hcobb (talk) 18:54, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Putting a tiny note in the lead to handle this. Hcobb (talk) 04:45, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Neanderthals aren't mentioned. The page is on historic migration from Africa (mainly to the New World), not the hypothetical and debated Out-of-Africa exodus of around 70,000 years ago/prehistory. Middayexpress (talk) 11:25, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Neanderthal slur

message: Take a map of the Americas and draw lines at the north and south ranges for Malaria. The Mason–Dixon Line is a good estimate on the north side.
Now factor in Yellow fever, and Vitamin D and Folic acid issues from sunshine.
Given all of this, where would you expect the Africans to move to in the Americas? Why isn't any of this even mentioned in this article? Hcobb (talk) 12:51, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: No mention of biological factors

message: First off there is no category in the Brazilian census labeled "multiracial" and even if there was that doesnt necessarily mean African + other race, it would also include Amerindian + European. The category is called "Pardos", which mean brown, a phenotypic description. Many people who identify as Pardos are mixed  Amerindian + European, and a good percentage of them are unknowingly almost full blooded Amerindian. You cant claim that every single person who identifies as Pardos has African blood.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.85.3.79 (talk) 18:34, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Brazil

message: The lede states the following: "In modern times, [African diaspora] is also applied to Africans who have emigrated from the continent in order to seek education, employment and better living for themselves and their children." According to this I propose merging the contents of the Emigration from Africa article (which is hardly more than a stub) into this article. FonsScientiae (talk) 20:45, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: That sentence is misplaced and should be removed; changing the scope of the entire article based on it is unwarranted. The Emigration from Africa page is reserved for discussion of recent immigration from Africa and can be expanded. The contextually very different historic migrations that formed the New World communities (who, in any case, no longer have just African ancestries) and the prehistoric, hypothetical Out-of-Africa exodus are separate topics for their own respective articles. Middayexpress (talk) 15:10, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I see your point, but the lede states that the article is particularly about "the descendants of the Africans who were enslaved and shipped to the Americas by way of the Atlantic slave trade, with the largest population in Brazil". In that case the title is misleading. My other source of confusion is that the article often talks particularly about black people, but the definition includes anyone of African descent (regardless of skin color). So is the article only about dark skinned people or everyone of African descent? FonsScientiae (talk) 16:21, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Though perhaps a little ambiguous, African diaspora is a common term for the historic migrations that formed the New World communities ; c.f. Music of the African diaspora. Middayexpress (talk) 17:18, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: If so, why are there 'dispersal through migration' and 'emigration from Africa' subsections? And my previous question again: is the article only about black Africans in the New World, or emigrated Africans in the world generally? FonsScientiae (talk) 16:10, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The article is about the various New World communities that were formed by the historic migrations of peoples from (mainly West and Central) Africa. While these population movements originated in certain parts of Africa hundreds of years ago, the communities that today descend from them have through time developed their own unique cultures, languages, personal names, and multiple ancestries due to intermarriage, miscegenation and other factors. Most of those population movements were also involuntary. However, the dispersal through migration sub-section is there to discuss the additional instances of voluntary historic migration (viz. "From the very onset of Spanish activity in the Americas, black Africans were present both as voluntary expeditionaries and as involuntary laborers.[4][5] Juan Garrido was one such black conquistador. He crossed the Atlantic as a freedman in the 1510s and participated in the siege of Tenochtitlan.[6]"). Discussion of recent emigration from Africa as a whole, while briefly touched on in that particular sub-section since it too is voluntary, is generally out-of-place and belongs on the Emigration from Africa page devoted to it. Middayexpress (talk) 14:11, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The first sentence of the lede contradicts that: "African diaspora ... historic movement of peoples from Africa — predominantly to the Americas, Europe and the Middle East, among other areas around the globe." It doesn't talk about involuntary migrations or migrations to the New World. This article should be either about New World migrations or general emigration from Africa which are two very different topics. At present state, it is confusing what the topic of the article actually is. FonsScientiae (talk) 19:44, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The topic is quite clear: "communities throughout the world that are descended from the historic movement of peoples from Africa — predominantly to the Americas, Europe and the Middle East, among other areas around the globe." The second sentence mentions historic involuntary migrations to the New World. I just added another on historic voluntary migrations. Middayexpress (talk) 15:41, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you. In that case it should include emigration from Africa; as emigration is voluntary migration from a place (here: Africa). FonsScientiae (talk) 16:28, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The article is on the global communities that were initially formed by historic migrations from particular parts of Africa, not recent movements from the continent as a whole. Though not exclusively the case, most of that dispersal was involuntary as well. Middayexpress (talk) 16:55, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  This source defines African diaspora as solely migration through slavery to the New World. (1) But I believe that it the term can be mean any historical migrations from Africa. The definitions I found of the term are quite vague: some implies only New World migrations, some historical but involuntary movements. Because of this vagueness I propose changing the title to 'Historical  migrations from Africa' and redirecting 'African diaspora' to this article. FonsScientiae (talk) 12:25, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem with 'Historical migrations from Africa' is that it could be mistaken as encompassing, say, the Moorish expeditions in Al Andalus since they too were also historic migrations from Africa. But that's ultimately not what is being discussed here. The article is about the actual global communities that were formed by the largely involuntary historic migrations from specific parts of the continent; mainly West/Central Africa . Middayexpress (talk) 15:47, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: According to broad definition Moors living outside Africa are part of the African diaspora. According to the other definition, African diaspora is involuntary historic migrations, and doesn't include Moors. The problem here is that the term 'African diaspora' can mean many things. The problem is the inconsistency: the article includes communities which were formed mostly by voluntary movements of African people (Europe, Asia, Oceania), and not only New World communities. The article should only discuss historical, involuntary movements of Africans, or should talk about general African communities around the world. How do you feel about it? FonsScientiae (talk) 15:18, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The article should discuss what it's about. Namely, the global populations descended from the historic and largely involuntary movement of related peoples from mainly West/Central Africa, not from the continent as a whole. The involuntary historic migrations themselves are discussed in the various slave trade articles. This community is commonly referred to as the "African diaspora", however imperfect the term (esp. given the peoples' multiple ancestries at this point). Middayexpress (talk) 17:48, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Then the lede, the general description should include this, that it is mainly about the movements of West and Central African people. FonsScientiae (talk) 08:55, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The page is not mainly about the movements of West and Central African people, but about the global populations descended from the historic and largely involuntary movement of related peoples from Africa; primarily the Western and Central parts. At any rate, I've added a note to that effect. Middayexpress (talk) 16:10, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Emigration from Africa 

message: Patrick Manning recently wrote about how the African diaspora has helped shape modernity. This article could benefit from a small paragraph explaining this idea. I would appreciate any feedback or input people may have.Rmb86 (talk) 00:00, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I too joined because of my interest and studies about the African Diaspora. You may see by the way I edit (constantly rewriting), that my contributions derive from careful reading and reflection. Ivettedez (talk) 09:32, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Diaspora and Modernity

message: I do not know if this relevant enough to be included in the article, but I find it interesting. Although most of the african slaves captured by Spain in the middle ages were sent to the Americas, a sizeable number of them ended up in mainland Spain, specially in Andalusia to the South, and they were relevant enough to have their own guild in the sevillian fair (see http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermandad_de_Los_Negritos_%28Sevilla%29). 
In the the XVth century we have the example of the Duke of Medina Sidonia (based on Niebla, a town in Huelva, Andalusia), who freed the slaves that he had "employed" to build his castle, and settled them in Niebla, with the right to choose their own major. We have records of the complaints of the white inhabitants of Niebla to the son of the Duke, a generation later, claiming that the former slaves had been given "Too many freedoms and gifts". The noble rebuked them, saying that given that their inhabited his village, they were also his vassals. At any rate, it seems that they started to mix with the local population early on.  Their descendants were called "morenos" (literally "swarthy") but continuous intermarriage meant they were mostly assimilated. By the last century just a few families with noticeable black features remained, mostly in the town of Gibraleon. 
This is a pretty obscure topic (pun not intended) and I have found only one book dealing with it: "Arcadio Larrea (1952) Los negros de la provincia de Huelva". There are, however, several articles on the net about it like this one http://www.elmundo.es/magazine/num124/textos/esclavo1.html . It is an article from El Mundo, one of the major spanish newspapers.
The problem being, this topic does not seem to have attracted much attention outside of Spain, and I have found nothing in english about it... May I include this information with the citations I have provided? 
I also doubt that Spain is the only country in Europe that has some kind of half forgotten minority remaining from the slavery years. I think that maybe information about that would belong in this article more than the data about the black population currently living in Europe, because the vast mayority of them arrived during the last century, and their presence has nothing to do with the African Diaspora of the Middle and Modern ages I think this article originaly intended to cover. Maybe talking about that original diaspora and the current african emigration in the same article is a bit confusing.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.143.50.94 (talk) 00:03, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: The Forgotten Afro-Spanish

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: My interest in the plight of African Americans in the US has inspired me to contribute to this page. My work for this page will be driven toward insuring that the page is non-bias and inclusive. The page is currently filled with driving forces for diaspora and numerations of how certain countries have been affected. I aim to make sure that the article also includes the social, psychological, and economic effects on diasporic people. I hope to update the article to include this information with supporting references from peer-review sources. The Wikiproject: African Diaspora lists this article as top-importance but it only has a B-class rank. I hope my improvements give the article more depth in order to increase it's rating. 
These updates will take place over the next few months. I welcome edits and advice. This will be the second Wiki article I have edited; I could use all the help you guys are able to give. Looking forward to working with the Wiki-community. 
Ratilley (talk) 01:33, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I am glad you are interested. Me too. What are your reading? Ivettedez (talk) 06:13, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Coming soon: updates 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: There are over 100 million Black people in Brazil https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/br.html and a little over 4 million Afro descended people in Cuba https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/cu.html. Where did you get 55 million from? Stop omitting information.--GodSentMe22 (talk) 01:53, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Even if we were to take the World Factbook figures at face values, how did you manage to arrive at "black 9.3%" of the 11,179,995 total population of Cuba as being over 4 million. As regards the Brazilian population, you are (as with Cuba) conflation the concept of a 'diaspora' with those who do not identify as being African/Afro-'something'. The majority of nation-states in South America use different terminology for mixed race, and these terms are often considered mutually offensive. Throwing the World Factbook (which does not provide their sources for the 2010 estimates) and replacing the reliably sourced figures with your own preference is misinformation and intentionally misleading as you've introduced your WP:OR a few times now despite what reliable sources used say. If you dispute the numbers presented, the WP:BURDEN is on you to demonstrate that you have better/more recent/more reliable sources for any content changes you make. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 04:31, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Addendum: I removed GodSentMe22's previous commentary on the subject on this talk page as WP:SOAP. For the edification of other editors, however, please note that the editor made his/her intentions of continuing a POV-push clear here. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 04:39, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  African Diaspora 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I came her to figure out what that d-word meant.  Instead it's used again without definition then poorly written self-definition.  The very first sentence should clearly and unambiguously define the word diasporsa (found as a misspellt word in chrome dictionary, something I've written up in Chromium bug reports in the past about so don't bother). I got confused quickly then came here.  Technophant (talk) 21:01, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: There is a fuller explanation of the word itself (basically, it just means "scattering") at the article on Diaspora.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:51, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead is whack 

message: You changed the data for Brazil, but the sources you gave don't contain information about the number of members of the African diaspora in Brazil. That's why I had to revert you. --Rsk6400 (talk) 20:24, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Data for Brazil 

message: I deleted your recent addition of genetic history. It is based completely on primary sources (see WP:PSTS). An article should be based on secondary sources, because WP is not a repository of all kinds of lists, but should present information in a way that allows our readers to understand information in its context. --Rsk6400 (talk) 18:17, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Genetic history 

message: User  are persistently trying to change the information presented for Brazil in the infobox simply because they doesn't like how it appears, despite with verified sources - and the information being consistent with the map and the order of data by country. I have warned them several times, but they still keep on doing it. I asked him to seek a consensus, apparently they refused. Hassanjalloh1 (talk) 02:31, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: infobox isn't for duplicating everything in the dedicated stats section. also, wiki image is a bad source also the notion that all pardos are of african descent is blatantly incorrect. Belevalo (talk) 02:39, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: You see everything according to your own point of view. You don't care about what reliable sources are saying. I don't think that would work well with YOU as an editor in WP. Hassanjalloh1 (talk) 03:11, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Infobox

message: The article mentions "we citizenship". Is this a term that needs to be explained, or is it a typo? Pete unseth (talk) 13:27, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "we citizenship" 

message: Please, add new African diaspora in Indonesian (population total)! If all of you can do it. Hariman Muhammad (talk) 07:25, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adding New African Diaspora in Indonesian 

message: Their Presence in the world today 102.90.43.233 (talk) 22:07, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Africa Dispora and their presence in the new world  

message: It is not clear if the information in this section is factual as the source url does not work properly.--Mayor1704 (talk) 18:13, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  African Diaspora 

message: In the subsection Dispersal through slave trade in the History section of this article, the 'Kush' link - in "Most Aithiopian slaves in the Greco-Roman world came from Kush (modern-day Sudan) ... [bold emphasis mine]" - takes users to the Kushan Empire article. The Kushan Empire was a polity in the Indian subcontinent, not modern-day Sudan as the quote claimed. The Kush article link needs to be changed to the correct article.
Thanks.  Factthinker (talk) 15:28, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong article for 'Kush' link