Talk:Canadair CL-84 Dynavert

message: At very bottom under the Trivia section is statement "At the time of the CL-84 project, Canadair was a subsidiary of General Dynamics." I think this fact should be moved up on page and given more importance. Reason is that Canadair and Canadian are very prominant at top of page. Page provides impression development aim was for United States Military as customer.  It is a well known fact that Congress is very big/prefers to buying American built equipment for for the military. 
Wfoj2 12:11, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you read the statement carefully, it refers to the name of the aircraft and is not related to whether General Dynamics is a U.S. concern, it was simply a public relations decision to create a catchy name, especially coming from a larger parent company. FWIW Bzuk (talk) 02:27, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nationality 

message: :Image:Cl84.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
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BetacommandBot (talk) 21:53, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Cl84.jpg

message: :Image:Cl84.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 13:26, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Cl84.jpg

message: Since the paragraph about the name "Dynavert" could only be verified by someone who was there (like myself) and this is construed as "original research", I propose deleting the paragraph. It doesn't belong in the main text, anyway. I originally posted it as "trivia", but somebody moved it.
I may be the last person living who cares about the name, anyhow.
I don't know why Wikipedia abhors trivia. For me, the trivia is the most interesting part of articles I look up, like the cherry on a sundae.
Wadamsgn (talk) 20:12, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think that Wikipedia abhors trivia, so much as separate trivia sections. Information like this can be easily incorporated into the article text and not made into separate trivia sections.  See Wikipedia:Trivia sections. The problems involved in including WP:OR are big ones. Everything has to be referenced to reliable sources, OR is banned as the first of the Five Pillars of Wikipedia. There are good reasons for this, too. If anyone can just add unreferenced opinions and reminiscences then Wikipedia just becomes a blog. There are millions of blogs on the Internet and most are worthless. You also have the problem of someone else coming along and saying, "well I worked on the CL-84 the year after you left the project and we never called it the 84" and so on. It also stops so-called subject matter experts from overruling editors writing from sources. In the end the policy works because otherwise Wikipedia would be as useless as Yahoo Answers - sixty opinions on every question, all of them contradicting. - Ahunt (talk) 22:46, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: BTW, I have restored the section partially as there are references that are available to validate the statement. Frederick C. Phillips, programme manager has written a number of authoritative articles on the project and never once referred to the aircraft as the "Dynavert" which was considered more of a promotional/marketing name that Canadair employees never used. To them it was always the "84." FWiW Bzuk (talk) 01:58, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Adding reliable refs is always the best solution! - Ahunt (talk) 10:41, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dynavert name 

message: :Some 30 years after the end of the CL-84 program, the present-day V-22 Osprey VTOL aircraft has revived the convertiplane concept, although, unlike the tilt wing of the Canadair CL-84, it utilizes a tilting engine design. (Laissus, Jean-François.  "The CL-84 Dynavert: Canada’s Convertiplane." aafo.com/news. Retrieved: 15 March 2007)
I've removed this paragraph as WP:OR/synthesis, which has been removed before. It was restored at that time with the comment "hard to remove a section that is also backed up by a citation". However, the source doesn't make that assertion "the present-day V-22 Osprey VTOL aircraft has revived the convertiplane concept". Further, this appears to be a commentary or blog-type site, not really a reliable source per WP:RS. All the cited article says is that Canada had developed a tilt-wing aircraft 30 years before. In addition, the piece is comparing the "Bell Boeing 609" (now the AW609), not the V-22! Let's wait for a consensus before we re-add this agian, and have better sources, though that's probably not likely to be found. Remember, the V-22 was based on XV-3 and XV-15, which aren't related to the CL-84 in anyway, and XV-3 predates it by at least a decade. - BilCat (talk) 16:41, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: "Legacy"

message: Is there a reference for the "rumor" that the test pilots in the 8 August 1973 test flight were attempting to set a climb speed record? If not, I think that sentence should be deleted. (Full disclosure: the US Navy test pilot was my father, and in personal conversation when I asked him about this "rumor" he said there was no such attempt; the pilots, not just on this flight but any test flight, were far too busy with the test protocol to think about trying to set any records that weren't an authorized objective of the flight.)
2601:14C:8300:3437:DC3E:CFF6:B7EE:1695 (talk) 00:31, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: The ref cited is "Boniface 2000, pp. 76–77." which is a paper book. Anyone have access to it? - Ahunt (talk) 00:52, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

text: Yes, you are quite right, it is an edition of Aeroplane magazine. Would be helpful to see just what it says. - Ahunt (talk) 01:20, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

text: Super! - Ahunt (talk) 12:20, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I've removed it. Looking at the article's history, the claim existed long before any sources were added to the article. That said, even if it were in the source, Wikipedia doesn't generally report rumors like that. It would have to be quite widely reported in credible, reliable published sources. - BilCat (talk) 07:49, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

text: In addition, the specs list the CL-84's rate of climb as 4,200 ft/min, while the F-4's climb rate is 41,300 ft/min, about 10 times as fast! It just doesn't seem credible to me, even if it was just to 10,000 feet, that a seasoned pilot, especially a test pilot, would think he could break such a record in a CL-84. - BilCat (talk) 08:12, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Good call. - Ahunt (talk) 12:43, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Rumor" of attempted climb speed record