Talk:Latter Rain (post–World War II movement)

message: There is some good information presented here but a careful peruse of the article indicates a subtle opinion against the movement.  It's not very blatant but there is a consistent focus on the negatives/controversy of the movement with half-hearted attempts at objectively defining the movement.  The author seems to indicate an outsider knowledge of the movement with such statements as:
It is difficult to communicate the Latter Rain through reference to doctrine alone, because its most distinctive element is its spiritual atmosphere. Once one understands this basic point, it is easy to identify within the Pentecostal movement who has been impacted by the Latter Rain, and to what degree.
Easy to identify based on "spiritual atmosphere"? No more explanation is given of what this "spiritual atmosphere" entails.  This is not an objective way to define the latter rain movement.  The proceeding bullets list a few general tenets of the latter rain movement but are all the more controversial issues.  I think someone who is in the movement who can stay objective should contribute to balance this article. --67.185.117.84 03:38, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  With reference to the above blockquote -- speaking as someone who came looking for information who is not a Christian, the concept is not sufficiently explained either in terms of Christian doctrine or in terms of "spiritual atmosphere".  Other than the fact that this is some kind of "movement", there is no information given here that makes a great deal of sense, except to someone who already knows what this article is about.  Frankly, that is not the intent of Wikipedia, as I understand it.  Perhaps someone could make an attempt to communicate in simple English words the nature of what is being discussed here so that the concept could be understood by the average non-Christian reader (who, I may add, probably makes up considerably more than half the users and editors of Wikipedia).  Mere lists of bible verses are not helpful -- lists of people who may or may not have been part of the movement are not helpful -- jargon is not helpful.  If you truly want this concept to be understood, then someone should make an effort to explain it to the average reader.  Otherwise, it's close to being cruft.  Accounting4Taste 21:21, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Subtly opinionated 

message: I got onto this page trying to find out about the Latter Rain Movement because I was looking for background to Blind Willie Johnson's gospel song of the 1930s, "Latter Rain Gonna Fall On Me." It was clear to me that this page must be incorrect as it currently stands, since the Johnson song antedates the chronology of this page by over a decade. Subsequent research has taught me that the movement began in Pentecostalism around 1900. It would be good if someone more expert in this line of history than I am would work on this page.Buckdancer 20:33, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  leaves out history 

message: It is a common misconception that John Robert Stevens and the Living Word Fellowship were a part of Latter Rain or the Manifest Sons of God movement. Stevens said on numerous occasions (in at least 12 sermons given between the years of 1959 and 1982) that he felt that God showed him to never be a part of the Latter Rain movement.  Jeremiah 03:41, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Changes - August 10, 2007

message: Ministers Fellowship International (MFI) represents perhaps the most theologically solid group to directly emerge from the Latter Rain
What does that mean?  It's extremely vague and sounds rather subjective.  Does it mean that the theology is most "mainstream" or not controversial?  Does it mean that it is objectively somehow more Biblically grounded?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Georgiablue (talk • contribs) 16:37, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section on MFI is vague 

message: There are some Latter Rain-inspired Charismatics who believe in the doctrine of Universal Reconciliation, the salvation of all through Christ.  This is a significant school of thought, especially since this tradition is having a major influence on the Christian Universalist movement in general.  Therefore, I added a paragraph in the Controversies section of the article which describes the Reconciliation movement that arose out of Latter Rain, including some references. Shiningdove (talk) 17:23, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added paragraph about Reconciliation movement 

message: The entire "beliefs" section is lacking citations. Additionally, most of the statements about figures linked to the movement are lacking citations.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.100.176.34 (talk) 22:43, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Lacking Citations

message: The article fails to consider that the Latter Rain movement is world wide, and started long before WWII.
-- 1948 is after WWII, no? Even if you go back to the PAOC bible college split in 1947 (http://www.spiritwatch.org/firelatter2.htm) that set the stage for the heresy, it's still after WWII. Or are you referring to something else? Mmlj4 (talk) 05:04, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article is American-centric 

message: I believe that anything from FACTNET is not a reliable source. Material found on a discussion forum is a primary source and not written from a third-party perspective. Even just mentioning FACTNET within the article is a sign of original research. I strongly believe that citing FACTNET goes against these Wikipedia guidelines, which, in turn, goes against the guideline of verifiability. I would suggest removing all references to FACTNET and deleting any information sourced to FACTNET in order to make this article as trustworthy as possible. Jeremiah (talk) 22:27, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I've removed all references to FACTNET. You are right, it doesn't meet Wikipedia's criteria. Ltwin (talk) 05:30, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  FACTNET is not a reliable third-party source 

message: As has been mentioned before, there is a "Latter Rain Movement" which predates the movement described in this article by some 60 years. To avoid confusion, I'm proposing that this article be moved to New Order of the Latter Rain with "Latter Rain Movement" to become a disambiguation page to allow readers to jump to either the present article, an article describing the original movement (which I'm prepared to start), or the Pentecostalism article. I'm asking for comments here from interested editors prior to moving ahead.  • Astynax talk 20:01, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Go for it my freind, It is good to check for consensus but on an issue like this i advise you to act boldly because this need to be differentiated. Weaponbb7 (talk) 20:13, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Just want to ask for some clarity here. I'm aware that the "Latter Rain" motif has always been used by Pentecostals from the very beginning. Are you referring to the Pentecostal Movement as being older? If not, could you give me a short description on this other Latter Rain movement? Thanks. Ltwin (talk) 21:12, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The "Latter Rain Movement" in existence prior to the subject of this current article began in the last decades of the 19th century in the southeastern U.S. In its early years, it had a restorationist character and sought to include all Christian denominations. It was later largely subsumed into the modern Pentecostal movement. Many references refer to this earlier movement explicitly as the "Latter Rain Movement". It seems the term "Latter Rain" is also used elsewhere in early Pentecostalism. And yet other sources use "Latter Rain Movement" to describe the movement out of Canada during the 1940s. Some disambiguation is needed.  • Astynax talk 08:27, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm fine with disambiguation. I just wanted some info about this older movement. Ltwin (talk) 15:48, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

text: Done. I hope the title is OK. Reconsidering, I chose Latter Rain (post-World War II movement) to keep the article appearing in the results when a reader types "Latter rain" into the search box. I think more people are likely to search on that term than "New Order". I should soon be able to finish a stub for the earlier movement, depending on how my day goes.  • Astynax talk 18:41, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal to move the article to a new title 

message: An RfC: Which descriptor, if any, can be added in front of Southern Poverty Law Center when referenced in other articles? has been posted at the Southern Poverty Law Center talk page. Your participation is welcomed. – MrX 16:53, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  RfC 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 5 external links on Latter Rain (post–World War II movement). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20091112031940/http://dlibrary.acu.edu.au/digitaltheses/public/adt-acuvp78.25092005/02wholex.pdf to http://dlibrary.acu.edu.au/digitaltheses/public/adt-acuvp78.25092005/02wholex.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080719083646/http://www.hearingthetruthofgod.com/id69.html to http://www.hearingthetruthofgod.com/id69.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080509073941/http://hearingthetruthofgod.com/id349.html to http://www.hearingthetruthofgod.com/id349.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080509071504/http://hearingthetruthofgod.com/id269.html to http://www.hearingthetruthofgod.com/id269.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/Latrain.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 04:22, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I ended up on this page after seeing a church called ‘True Jesus Mission Church of the Latter Rain’ in Honolulu and hoped to find information about how the movement ended up in Hawaii. Should this be included? 213.205.241.22 (talk) 06:16, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Is the church part of the "latter rain" movement as described in this article?  I think you need more info on the ‘True Jesus Mission Church of the Latter Rain’ before you can draw that conclusion.  Darlig 🎸 Talk to me 15:30, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hawaii?