Talk:Savoy Truffle

message: I really don't think the interpretation of this song is correct.  Listen to the lyrics -- it seems (seriously) to be about cunnilingus to me.  I have no sources to cite, though, so I will refrain from changing the article until and unless I find some.  Might anyone else have evidence on this subject?  RobertAustin (talk) 17:31, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Beatles songs tend to be over-interpreted. John Lennon made of a point of how that irritated him in another White-Album tune, "Glass Onion". (BTW, I myself misinterpreted "The Continuing Story of Bungalow Bill" as an anti-war song. And we all know the fracas over "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds". Poor John.) (PS: Poetry always seems to be in the eye of the beholder when one lacks all the info. Like that line in Lewis Carrol's Alice stories: "It means what I want it to mean.") RobertGustafson (talk) 07:43, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: I do not think the interpretation given is correct.

message: Listen, I don't know if I am putting this right, but Savoy Truffle is not about Eric Clapton's chocolate addiction.  It is about his cocaine addiction.  George used chocolate as a cover.
-wtk
:And your source is... ? --kingboyk 10:36, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See comment on previous talk section. RobertGustafson (talk) 07:48, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

text: The content of Wikipedia is determined by reliable sources, not just one person's personal opinions. Sundayclose (talk) 01:16, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: :Image:The White Album.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:The White Album.jpg

message: There's also a rythm guitar track on this song; its performer (be it Harrison or someone else) should be credited in the "Personnel" section. RobertGustafson (talk) 07:39, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who played rythm guitar? 

message: Twice this article refers to somebody named Everett describing something about the song.  Who is Everett?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.54.250.11 (talk) 00:39, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who is Everett? 

message: Instead of removing this statement from the article, would you please discuss the issue here (per BRD). I've twice reverted your edits, for which you supplied the puzzling rationales "Ggggg" and "Gggfff"; it's only when I followed your contributions to the Love article that it became clear: "Horns section where from good morning good morning". All your Wikipedia edits seem to be related to specifics of the Love remixes, and you've not supplied a single source when making those changes.
In this article, I've supported the statement that "the track's horn parts were mixed into 'Drive My Car'" with the Zeth Lundy/PopMatters review as a source. As part of the elaborate promotion for the Love album (so I understand), reviewers were supplied with technical information that included some detail on which snippets of Beatles songs ended up in which 2006 mashup. Having said that, I don't want to include information here (or anywhere) that's blatantly false, so I had a couple of listens through headphones. As mentioned on 17 Jan, my ears tell me: "horns @ the end are from G'Morning but over 1st chorus it's Truffle (or perhaps a mix of Truff & G'Morning)". But that's just what I hear – which isn't enough for me to then add a mention in this song article, in "Good Morning, Good Morning" and in Love that portions of the horn parts from both "Savoy Truffle" and "GM, GM" were used. That would be original research.
Lundy says the horns are from "Savoy Truffle". Who exactly says they're from "Good Morning, Good Morning" instead? JG66 (talk) 03:30, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  repeated removal of the statement that horn parts appear in the Love remix of "Drive My Car" 

message: I've had a good look at this issue, and figured it was worth compiling all I've found, to explain how I've then handled instrumental credits for the song, under Recording and particularly Personnel.
Mark Lewisohn clearly states in The Complete Beatles Recording Sessions that "The eight-track tape does not reveal any role for John Lennon on 'Savoy Truffle' at any stage of its recording." Lewisohn also says that Starr had left for a family holiday in Sardinia and therefore the song's percussion overdubs were done without him. Despite the fact that most authors usually treat Lewisohn's books as prime source material, the likes of Walter Everett and Bruce Spizer appear to ignore these points about Lennon and Starr's nonattendance, and credit each of them with contributions to "Savoy Truffle" when it's clearly impossible. This is what each of the sources give for the song's credits (omitting the horn section):
* Ian MacDonald, Revolution in the Head: Harrison double-tracked vocal, lead guitar; McCartney bass; Starr drums, tambourine; Chris Thomas organ, electric piano
* Walter Everett, The Beatles as Musicians: Harrison lead vocal (x2), electric piano, lead guitars (Fender Telecaster) Lennon rhythm guitar (Epiphone Casino) McCartney bass Starr drums; other instrumentation: two organ parts, tambourine
* Bruce Spizer, The Beatles on Apple Records: Harrison lead vocal, electric piano, lead guitars (Fender Telecaster) Lennon electric guitar (Epiphone Casino) McCartney bass Starr drums; other instrumentation: organ, tambourine and bongos – all recorded in Starr's absence
* Kenneth Womack, The Beatles Encyclopedia: Harrison vocal, Fender Telecaster, Hammond organ McCartney Rickenbacker 4001S Starr drums, tambourine Chris Thomas Fender Rhodes Electric Piano
* John Winn, That Magic Feeling: The Beatles' Recorded Legacy, Volume Two, 1966–1970: states that Lennon was absent from sessions held over 3–7 October, then lists instrumentation for basic track on 3 October as rhythm guitar, bass and drums; with 5 and 14 October overdubs: Harrison lead vocal (with ADT), lead guitars; McCartney harmony vocal, bass; someone ("not Starr") tambourine, bongos; Chris Thomas electric piano, organ
* Jean-Michael Guesdon & Philippe Margotin, All the Songs: The Story Behind Every Beatles Release: Harrison vocal, lead guitar (x2); McCartney bass, backing vocal?; Starr drums, tambourine, bongos ('inaudible'); Chris Thomas organ?, electric piano? – the authors'  inclusion of question marks reflects their uncertainty over particular credits; they also add mention of a brief fill on acoustic guitar at 0:36 per Lewisohn (from the latter's Chronicles, I assume)
* Kit O'Toole, song article for Something New! website: mentions Lennon's absence on 3 October and lists basic-track instrumentation as lead guitar, bass and drums; then, for 5 October overdubs, Harrison lead vocal, McCartney harmony vocal; followed on 14 October, without Starr's participation, by second electric guitar, organ, bongos and tambourine; O'Toole adds: "One debate still rages: did coproducer Chris Thomas play the organ ... or did Harrison? Some reports have Harrison originally playing the electric piano, which was eventually replaced by Thomas's organ and piano parts."
It's a bit of a mess, in other words. (Quick aside: I'm surprised by the mentions of Harrison on only Fender Tele. I'd say that, apart from the mid-song solo, all the parts are played on his treasured Les Paul [a gift from Clapton]. He and a lot of sources say that this was his main guitar on the White Album sessions, at least from August '68 onwards; before then, it was his red Gibson SG. Anyway.)
I normally trust Everett's ears, in that he bothers to actually listen to a song, and identifies each instrument as it drops in. So, he hears (correctly, imo) that there are two lead guitar parts on top of the rhythm guitar, and that there are two organ parts combining to create the overall, swampy effect. But, of course, when he assigns credit for the individual contributions, Everett seems ignorant of who was and who wasn't in the studio at the time. O'Toole and Guesdon & Margotin reflect the confusion about the keyboard parts. What I've tried to do in the most recent edits is to keep things simple under Recording: list the specific 14 October overdubs and say that Starr was absent; mention that there are two organ parts, and that Thomas and Harrison have each been credited as an organ player on the track, depending on the source. That outlines the areas of uncertainty among the sources, without the reader becoming bogged down in specifics. Then, under Personnel, I've gone with Winn and Womack as main sources, with a note to explain how they differ over the percussion and organ credits. In the list, Harrison and Thomas are each credited for organ, in line with Everett's identification of two parts on the instrument. JG66 (talk) 06:11, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Personnel credits, in light of contradictory information from a variety of sources 

message: The article references music critic "Ian MacDonald", but following the link provided leads you to a snippet on music critic Ian MacCormick. Typo?? 2605:8D80:525:F21F:85C2:C595:569E:7E60 (talk) 11:06, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: He published under MacDonald (refer to Ian MacDonald). Tkbrett (✉) 13:04, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  music critic MacDonald or MacCormick? 

message: I would like to note that on the Beatles Bible it says that Paul McCartney played tambourine but I'm not sure if Wikipedia credits the Beatles Bible as an official source. Minemaster1337 (talk) 23:53, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: As a fan site, Beatles Bible is not considered a reliable source. I'm not sure where Joe Goodden got that information anyway – the confusion is detailed on in the personnel section of this article in a note. Tkbrett (✉) 00:01, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  tambourine