Talk:List of unusual deaths/Archive 1

message: The part on Rasputin makes several claims contradictory to his wikipedia article. Mostly, the castration. However, the article goes on to say that most of the other things stated here about Rasputin have turned out to be false. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 151.151.73.168 (talk) 00:13, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rasputin 

message: I removed a reference to Mama Cass choking on a sandwich, since (a) it's not unusual to choke to death on food, and (b) as the reference noted, it's almost certainly an inaccurate urban myth. - DavidWBrooks 02:52, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mama Cass 

message: I originally posted this article at Wikipedia:Unusual_articles. If you check out Wikipedia talk:Unusual articles you will see some debate about whether the article should be part of UA or Unusual deaths. It was concluded that the article should be posted here.
I find it hard to understand why it is that William I's death is not considered unusual. He exploded during his funeral for crying out loud!
--One Salient Oversight 12:07, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Becse it wasn't an unusual death it was an unusual funeral. If he had been killed attended somebody else's funeral when that personal exploded, THEN it would belong here. - DavidWBrooks 13:51, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Isn't that being a little bit too pedantic? Surely "Death" can cover a bit more ground than the actual mode of his death? Here we have a famous historical figure exploding duing his funeral. Unusual? Yes. WHy not put him here? What precedent would this set? I know that the Ayatollah Khomeni's body was passed around an Iranian mob during his funeral (which is unusual) but what else? --One Salient Oversight 03:15, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I look at it as the manner in which the person died (eg. a turtle fell on their head) or the circumstances in which they died (eg. publically on TV) is what qualifies the person for being on this list.  What does his corpse "exploded" mean any how?  I can't imagine it detonating and tossing body parts about.  Corpses being squished to a pulp probably isn't that unusual.  I seem to recall something similar happening to a pope, for example. - JEther 18:47, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: William I of England

message: The story about Edward's murder is spurious. The story arises in the chronicles some 30 years after Edward's death and is considered by many historians to be little more than salacious propaganda against a notoriously homosexual king.
Arguments advanced against the story include several based on logic, one of which is that the supposed benefits of murder by that method (his face/body would show no signs of disfigurement while lying in state) could be achieved by many far simpler, surer and faster methods. The Wiki article Edward_II_of_England is pretty good on this.
Dweller 17:18, 17 May 2006 (GMT+1)
The use of the word rumored in not appropriate in this context since the article is about unusual deaths in history (what is recorded not what is scientifically verified) and might be applied to many of the other deaths noted. The notion that the murder occurred during ablutions i.e. when he was washing or shaving himself or even going to the toilet is a nonsense. Edward was in captivity and died in suspicious circumstances. The manner of death or the reported manner of death says a great deal about attitudes to homosexuality during that period.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gizzard01 (talk • contribs) 22:07, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Edward II of England

message: One unfortunate effect of improving article is that in general, the more accurate the information gets, the less exciting it is. Just consider the recent edit to the Tycho Brahe listing, which switched "bursting bladder" to the more accurate "bladder infection". Sigh ... - DavidWBrooks 16:49, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  More accurate is duller 

message: I thought that the Darwin Awards featured enough unusual deaths that a link would be in order. If anybody thinks it's wrong, stupid or anything else, go ahead and delete it, but I see a slight link, and I might not be the only one. Sillstaw 02:46, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Darwin Awards 

message: "1543: Pedro de Valdivia a dreaded conquistador was captured by Native Americans and executed by pouring molten gold down his throat to satisfy his thirst for treasures." Can that be proved? His article doesn't even mention it. HybridFusion 08:33, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Valdivia 

message: The inclusion of the death of Judas uses the bible as it's source.  However, the interpretation is inaccurate.
The idea that Judas hung himself comes from Matthew 27:3-5, which says
3 Then Judas, His betrayer, seeing that He had been condemned, was remorseful and brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, 4 saying, “I have sinned by betraying innocent blood.”
And they said, “What is that to us? You see to it!”
5 Then he threw down the pieces of silver in the temple and departed, and went and hanged himself.''
His erm, "exploding" refers to a seperate reference to the events in Acts 1:18-19:
18 (Now this man purchased a field with the wages of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his entrails gushed out. 19 And it became known to all those dwelling in Jerusalem; so that field is called in their own language, Akel Dama, that is, Field of Blood.)
''
It is generally accepted that "Akel Dama" refers to the Valley of Hinnom, which has rather tall, rocky edges, and it would logically make sense that had Judas hung himself at the top of the precipice, once his rope deteriorated he would have fallen and splatted, etc.
Even if this was not the cause, the term "exploded while hanging himself" is misleading, because it says that Judas split because of a fall.
Whether or not you think that the Bible is an accurate historical account, if it's going to be used as a source in this encyclopedia it needs to be cited accurately.  I'm going to remove his death.  Someone can rewrite it if they still thing that it falls into the category of unusual deaths, which perhaps it does.
I read through the list, and I don't find most of the deaths to be unusual. For instance, since when is dying from being shot unusual - as was the case for several US Presidents, including the li
What is rare or unusual about people dying from heart attack (James Rodale), gunshot wounds (William McKinley), poisoning (several examples), gangrene in an age before antibiotics (also several examples) and so on.
Also, some of the assertions of unusual, such as the ritual sacrifice of the Mixtec king, Eight Deer Jaguar Claw, needs to be viewed in the light of human sacrifice rituals of Mezo-American civilizations in general, which changes the death from unusual to a culturally specific norm.
If the point of this list is anecdotes about unusual circumstances surrounding the deaths, that is how it should be titled.
: This debate has continued throughout the existence of this page, as you can see if you read above (it was originally titled List of people who died with tortoises on their heads!) The intro now says "... unique or extremely rare causes of death recorded throughout history, as well as less rare but still unusual causes of death of prominent persons." It's unusual for a prominent political leader to be assasinated, so that's why McKinley is here. But you're right - there's no hard and fast rule at all for what can or can't be on this list, and too often they include tales of somebody who died and then something unusual happened, or deaths that aren't unusual in other cultures, or just wild rumors.
: A minor note - please sign your comments with four tilde's, which creates a signature and time stamp like mine. This works even if you don't have an account (it leaves an anonymous IP number). Also, please indent them if you're responding to earlier comments, or else it gets very confusing about who is saying what, when.  - DavidWBrooks 15:08, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Judas Iscariot's death inaccurate 

message: It's risqué. Will you include the Holocaust next? It was not a very common occurence itself.Dahn 09:18, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I have removed the 9/11 and anthrax deaths, since they seem very much out of place here. All the other entries dealt with a single or very few, named person, rather than mass death of unnamed (here) victims. - DavidWBrooks 13:37, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: 9-11

message: There's an entry in this list for the 1971 death of John Fare, a Canadian artist apparently decapitated by a robot... call me cynical, but if there was any truth to this I'd really expect a man decapitated by a robot to have his own Wikipedia entry.
A Google returns very few results on John Fare, and all are brief references-as-fact in generally poorly written "essays". Of particular note is one page (which no longer seems to exist - all I can find is the snippet from the Google result page and it's Google cache link is invalid):
"[another essay] gives the account (most of which is based on rumour) of an artist named john fare who, between 1964 ..."
So, is there any proof this even happened?
John Fare had been added again, but I cannot find any indication that this actually happened. A google gives a few articles that seem to me to indicate a work of fiction (http://www.earthlydelights.co.uk/johnfare.htm particularly stuff like "...I was reminded for a moment of a xylophone recital I and a girl named Nellie had gone to about ten years earlier on the planet Neptune.") I believe this may be some clumsy attempt at a hoax or at least at discrediting wikipedia (again). If some credible evidence is given it would certainly be unusual enough to merit a place on the list, but for now I am removing it.
MasterDirk 12:03, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  John Fare - decapitated by a robot? 

message: Added recently to 1986 was Jennifer Levin, killed by the "Preppy killer". Now I have never heard of this, and it sounds horrific (like all murders), but is it really consistent with the theme of this list? Isn't this just a (and I don't mean this to sound as harsh as it undoubtedly sounds) "normal" rape-killing?
MasterDirk 23:54, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right - I've removed it. - DavidWBrooks 01:06, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jennifer Levin 

message: I removed this entry as it seems he died from insulin overdose, not a lion mauling, which itself was only borderline unusual. -- Netoholic @ 21:29, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Harold Davidson]] 

message: "Eaten by bears" isn't an unusual death - there are 5 recorded fatalities in Yellowstone National Park alone since 1916.  It doesn't fall under "famous person with a relatively common death" because he's only famous because he was eaten by bears.  "Not eaten by bears despite 13 years of continued contact" is the only unusual part, but it seems like even after 13 years of successful contact with bears, "camping with bears" is still an intrinsically dangerous activity of which death is a natural consequence. - Cdk 19:47, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Timothy Treadwell 

message: As far as I know, one cannot die of "brain damage."
: What would you call it, then?  —Tamfang 02:30, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vladamir Smirnov 

message: This isn't even remotely unusual, but I'm new here so I don't want to axe is just like that:
2006: New York Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle, who was also a pilot in training, erratically flew his single-engine jet into the side of a large apartment building in New York City, killing Lidle and his flight instructor. The ensuing explosion burned a considerable amount of the building, injuring several occupants although none were killed. Lidle had communicated to a radio tower that he was having fuel problems earlier in the flight. For nearby Manhattan witnesses, the moment bore a shocking and poignant resemblance to the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center in 2001. SockMonkeh 22:55, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right, I've removed it. Propound 04:38, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed. Unless the FAA comes up with a unique equipment malfunction of some sorts, this should not be added again. Intangible 04:57, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Candidate for Removal 

message: So obviously, I have seen this article (rightly) was previously nominated for deletion, but was kept.
I do however think that it needs drastic revisions. I counted at least 45 uncited anecdotes about so called "unusual deaths". These should be removed should they not? Or verified. Otherwise its just an urban legend page.
I may do so at some point, but as of now I have not.
MergeCar 02:39, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I tend to agree...this article seriously needs cites, and I'll work on that when I can, but in the meantime, I plan on reverting any uncited additions. If you have something to contribute, but no source info, I'd suggest putting it here on the talk page first, so others can evaluate it. Akradecki 18:08, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations 

message: Being morbidly curious, I tried to check this story out, but didn't come up with much. The article here had been deleted, and even through lots of research on the web, this was all I could come up with, from a cashed page ("Skateboarding" here on Wikipedia) that since had been changed.
"In 2005 the world of skateboarding was shaken on its axis, when Darshan Cowles, at the time only a very promising young skater from the UK, stunned the skating community by attempting to complete a 720 melon. Tragically, such a young skater trying to perform such a groundbreaking trick resulted in a horrific crash, which left onlookers open-mouthed. Despite being rushed to hospital, Darshan was sadly pronounced dead hours after the dreadful incident. Although only 17 when he died, Darshan's attempted 720 melon was considered so courageous that he was recently voted the second most influential skater of all time in a survey of more than 5,000 skaters, with Tony Hawk narrowly beating him to the top spot. Despite Darshan's iconic status in the world of skating, his death is as clear a sign as any of the dangers of audacious tricks in skateboarding."
You would think if this had really happened, there would be more evidence on the web. Actually, any evidence at all, besides the video that is supposedly on YouTube. I would even think that there would be even just remnants of normal discussion about the abilities of this skateboarder left on the web. I could not even find evidence that he was a popular skater. Is this all a hoax and completely flying over my head, or did this really happen? Really scratching my head over this, and would like to get more info. Fmalcangi 07:49, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Darshan Cowles 

message: I'm going to be moving all entries that I have tried and failed to find verifiable sources to here. If anyone can find what I wasn't able to, please feel free to add these back in, with the appropriate citations (if web, please use template:cite web. Akradecki 18:17, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, that sure is interesting: I was able to read about it in the very first reference (second paragraph from the bottom). The other two references do not belong here. Dahn 18:32, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I should have (and just did) phrased that better: I could find no verifiability...the first reference does mention the legend, but goes so far as to say that the tale is unreliable (need a really big chunk of salt). Akradecki 18:37, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But is that not covered by the "according to legend" part of the entry? Dahn 18:38, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I can see a place for a legend in the article for the guy himself, but if it didn't really happen, I don't see it appropriate to include here. This is not a list of legends. Akradecki 19:46, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Citation needed purgatory

message: I deleted the part on the death of Titus.  It is impossible to die because a mosquito flies up the nose and pick the brain, and this is clearly simply a myth.DaBears34 05:54, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Death of Titus 

message: Is this a hoax? What raised my skepticism was "kidnapped by a group of murderous feminists". There is also no source to such a story. --Philo  07:53, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That seems a safe bet; that's why it has been reverted. Those wacky college kids - aren't we glad they share their wit? - DavidWBrooks 11:19, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Johnny Watkins 

message: *2003: Jane McDonald, a seminary student from Scotland, slipped and fell into an open dishwasher and was impaled by a kitchen knife. 
*2005:  33-year-old pastor Kyle Lake of University Baptist Churchhttp://www.ubcwaco.org/mainblog/ in Waco, Texas, was electrocuted when he reached for a microphone while standing in the baptismal pool of the church.
*2006: A Canadian woman choked on marshmallows at London, Ontario's Western Fair while taking part in a "Chubby Bunny" contest, and later died in hospital.
*2006: A Dutch woman was burnt alive at a Dutch hospital in Almelo when fire broke out while she was fixed to a hospital bed in the operating room and given a local sedative.
These above seem tragic, as all accidental deaths, but I don't think they are very unusual. At least not so unusual to be in a say top-200 list of all times or top 3-of the-year most unusual deaths.
I will delete them if there are no objections.
Besides I just added the apostle who was flayed alive and then crucified. --217.209.46.200 12:46, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have removed them. I afterwards have seen that they have already been removed but restored by User:Mathrick. But this user has not objected here against the removal. The reason for having a discussion page is to avoid an edit war. Someone restoring every change and refusing to discuss creates an edit war. -- BIL 23:11, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not so unusual deaths III 

message: There are something like 7 death by heartattack while being watched live in theatre, filmed for TV, or live on the radio. I would think that would mean at most the first time it occured may be rare, but the next 6 times seem less so. So, Which ones stay and which ones go? They are in 1943, 1971, 1984, 1991, 1996, 2001. Dstanfor 15:01, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: IMHO, the extremely public nature of these deaths means they are still notable enough for this article - although, obviously, this is very much a judgement call. (This entire article is a judgement call!) Six deaths in a bazillion public appearances is pretty unusual. - DavidWBrooks 20:19, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  death by heartattack 

message: After going through the article a few times, a couple types of deaths keep showing up. 
: Death in front of an audience mistaken for part of the act or sleeping. 
: death by electrecution of musical equippment or microphones. 
: ironic deaths where someone dies from doing something that normally doesn't kill you. 
: ironic deaths where someone doesn't die from their dangerous life, but from something else
: deaths of a sexual nature.
Dstanfor 07:27, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  unusual death categories 

message: Does Preoteasa's death qualify him for the list? As stated, I have problems with the editorial guidelines for this list, and I'd rather not edit into it until a more rational stand on the issue of referencing is taken; therefore, I would simply like to help editors who are happy with the current format to make the list more comprehensive, without actually intervening in editing it. It is also arguably more helpful to agree on entries rather than shoving them in the list. Dahn 03:00, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Grigore Preoteasa]]

message: I would also like to know why this entry was removed (especially since it appears to have been silently removed):
:1799: Constantine Hangerli, Prince of Wallachia, was arrested by a kapucu and a Moor, and immediately executed by being strangled, shot, stabbed, and decapitated in quick succession.
Isn't there something unusual about a ruling monarch being passed through four methods of execution in the space of some minutes? You can find two references for it in the article on him. Dahn 03:11, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Being executed or killed by multiple methods was not particularly unusual for monarchs judging by what I've read of history. Especially as the methods themselves (shot, stabbed, decapitated) were relatively common. Still I'll put him back.--T. Anthony 03:29, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Compiling a list would help to answer this question. Of course, we could delete all information about it, that would also put the question to rest. After all, I'm sure it's not notable. Trollderella 18:34, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Why is it "not notable"? Dahn 18:37, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sorry. I was being sarcastic. I think the concept of 'notability' is bogus and abused. Trollderella 19:21, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sorry myself: I should have read your other replies on this very talk page. We tend to agree. Dahn 19:26, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ;) Trollderella 20:30, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Constantine Hangerli]]

message: I went ahead and put the  tag at the top of the article since no solution has come since the last AFD nomination nor appears to be forthcoming. In one month, I'll go ahead and start stripping the list of every unsourced entry. Note that I'm not contesting that any of these events actually occurred (concerning this, there are references for many of the entries), only that they are to be considered unusual. Simões (talk/contribs) 00:25, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I support this. I'm about to do the same thing on the article Banned films (which is in vastly worse shape than this one in terms of sourcing; sadly, the  tag was removed, and despite my post to the Talk page, there has been no progress since last May). In the meantime I'll try to run down reliable sources for some of the missing ones here. --MCB 06:52, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tagged for lack of references 

message: I don't have an exact date, but I do know that the epic poet Homer died of a fit of rage over not being able to solve a child's riddle about lice.  Can anyone incorporate this into the article?  MadHistorian 02:18, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Homer 

message: I can't think of an effective resolution for this matter, because while this is a subject readers might care about and may enjoy reading and may want for informational purposes, WP:V and WP:NPOV are totally unaccounted for in the title.  Very few deaths could be considered verifiably unusual, which could be reasonably done if verifiable sources note that the deaths are unusual.  As the article stands, it's an opinion peice and is totally disputable.  Again, I have no recomendation on the course of action to take, but it should be verifiable. i kan reed 16:20, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I think we know where we all stand: I agree it should be vertifiable that the stated incidents happened as described, and that they be notable enough to be included in other wikipedia articles (as the intro says) but think that is sufficient. Others don't. In fact, it sounds to me like several people feel the word "unusual" is so inherently subjective that the article must by definition be unverifiable and should be AFD'd. I would disagree, as have the previous AfD debates (although it's been close). - DavidWBrooks 16:46, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If we can't come up with a solution to this, we're going to have to put it up for another AFD nomination or turn it into a redirect (which doesn't require an AFD discussion). i kan reed and Seraphimblade came here because I made a WP:3O request. I can do a WP:RFC next, but the same outcome is going to happen. There's no way around the verification-of-unusualness requirement, as WP:V and other policies demand it. Do you have any ideas? Simões (talk/contribs) 17:01, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

text: If you'll look at the AFD discussions, you'll see that all the keep votes are either backed by "I like it" statements or insistences that unusualness can be verified. None of the latter group has followed up on their claim since the discussion ended. All the delete votes are for the same reason: unusualness can't be verified. Those are the "varied opinions." Simões (talk/contribs) 17:26, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Be that as it may, the vote still was keep twice. That shouldn't be cavalierly tossed aside, even if you think the arguments on one side were weak. - DavidWBrooks 18:39, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Especially when the crux of the dispute lies within the interpretation (broad or strict) of WP:OR and WP:NPOV and how they apply to this. As far as the topic has been concerned, entire books on unusual deaths have been published over the years. So this squabble is over not whether or not the list complies with WP:OR but over an interpretation as to whether the boundaries are in fact POV. This is wikilawyering to the nth degree. 147.70.242.40 21:21, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: 3rd Opinion on this matter

message: Hi. Where will I find the consensus discussion for the renaming of this article? --Dweller 12:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You won't find it. I moved the article back. Simões (talk/contribs) 14:12, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article rename 

message: I recall hearing on the radio, just before some of his music was played, about a composer who had lost his sense of smell somehow.  Apparently he died after applying white shoe polish to his face, mistaking it for shaving cream.  The fumes rendered him unconscious and he died on the bathroom floor.  I can't find anything on Google though, am I imagining this? Miken32 22:46, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you can't find it on Google, I suspect you might be... However, it may be worthwhile following up and trying to find the radio article. Trollderella 17:26, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Some composer...

message: It states in this article that Nelson Rockefeller died "while having sex with Megan Marshack on the desk in his office."  I checked the Nelson Rockefeller page after reading this, and while it states that there is speculation regarding his exact cause of death and that he may have had an affair with the 26 year old aide in the time leading up to it, it says nothing about the cause of death mentioned in this article (even as a possibility).  It only states that there are reports that he may have been with Marshack at the time of his death.  I think the "sex on the desk" account may then be simply a rumor or legend, and not verified as fact. --Delong71487 20:00, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Excellent point. It's gone. - DavidWBrooks 21:07, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rockefeller and Marshack 

message: Supposed death by mayonnaise incident (1993)???  Then why is he in the wiki list 'Living People'???
Check his page!
: Bythe time this comment was written, the joke entry had already been removed. -DavidWBrooks 18:08, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Dave Beasant=

message: I'm not sure this is a good idea or not, so I gave it a try: I've "clumped" together a number of similar 20th-century deaths - people who died of natural causes (not accidents) during public performances. If this works, we can do other clumps; if not, we can revert it. - DavidWBrooks 22:58, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  clumping similar deaths 

message: I don't see how this list could be anything but subjective.... I mean, I guess you could say if the cause of death is one that does not occur often....
But then this list would require all deaths by rare diseases.
And disclude any toothpick-related deaths, as they are statistically significant.
And include terrorism-related deaths, as acts of terrorism are relatively rare.
And disclude large-scale catastrophes, as only the death tolls and events themselves are unusual, and not the actual individual deaths.
In addition, if you were to also consider circumstances or details of the death, you could only include details that don't occur often, not simply details that may seem outlandish.
In addition, to be anywhere close to complete, this list will have to be unfathomably large, as the number of reported "unusual" deaths is sure to be in the ten thousands, at least.
And if we are to use "unusual" as "statistically extraordinary", we'll have to come up with a solid standard to go by (which, of course, will have been already been decided on and published by somebody else, because for us to declare something unusual would be original research and analysis) Blueaster 03:53, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree all your points are valid ones, and probably addressing all of them is an impossibility, but all of that might be considered overly critical. An article like this, I think the only way it could meet the standards you've just set forth (which, theoretically, are all standards wikipedia is supposed to set forth) would be to completely neuter the article the way the List of Internet phenomena was recently. 
The MAIN problem is the one you raised about subjectivity. I don't believe there's any single standard that could truly be used to qualify what is an "unusual death", certainly not across the board for all types of death, and certainly not one which would be sourcable. I think, even above Original Research, it can be understood that the circumstances surrounding the demise of someone like, say, Michael Malloy, it can be understood that the vast majority of people would have no problem qualifying it as "unusual". But, reasonable expectation for popular agreement is not a consistent standard. So I simply do not know how to solve this particular problem.
If I were being completely objective, I would say all of your points raised are totally valid, and satisfactorily answering all of them is an impossibility, which would mean the article should be considered for deletion. But, subjectively, I like the article and feel it does serve a purpose, and if there is a way of answering any of your points, I'd like to try.Elijya 05:13, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Unusual"? Unusual as declared by whom? 

message: Please, I need a good laugh once in a while. Keep this up. It ROCKS!
P.S.: It HAS survived 2 attempts of deletion, hasn't it?
74.118.34.46 02:02, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Is there a Trivia Wiki? If not there should be for articles like this, since I do enjoy this kind of stuff. BrainRotMenacer 22:57, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  KEEP! KEEP! KEEP! KEEP! KEEP! [Shuts Up] 

message: I removed the  tag as both pointless and incorrect. While a number of issues with this article (principally the degree to which judging a death as "unusual" constitutes original research) have been brought up in the three AfD discussions, no credible case for lack of notability has been made: the criteria for inclusion make it clear that only unusual deaths of notable persons (judged by their having Wikipedia articles) or unusual deaths that themselves are the subject of Wikipedia articles, are to be included. Items that do not meet either of these criteria are routinely and quickly removed. --MCB 04:05, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In fact, entire books have been published about it.B.Wind 22:29, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  {{tl|Notability}} 

message: What is the source for the claim that Benny Hill died after a specific bout of overeating? His Wiki page says he was obese and suffered from heart problems but makes no mention of the claim made in this article.--ukexpat 13:02, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Benny Hill]] 

message: "290 BC Louisicus XXIV, was killed during the sexual act of Gaphavion, were one touches onesself to a picture of food."
I know I'm not the only one to see something wrong with this... The Last Melon 03:06, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Louisicus"? 

message: Would the death of Inejiro Asanuma?  Assassination by sword is not unusual, perhaps, but for a modern (1960) politician to be assassinated on (nearly) national television is pretty unusual.  It certainly caused an uproar in the country for months.
Generationthirteen 23:45, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  What about time frame? 

message: Its supposed he was killed on crusade by being thrown of his horse into cold water... I find this unusual baring in mind the context. He was on a crusade and it was a pretty... odd way for an Emperor to die...
Just thought I would suggest it --Swk2000 03:51, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Frederick I 

message: Andy Warhol's entry does not seem unusual.  I'd like to delete it unless anyone voices a compelling objection. --69.137.219.50 11:45, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Andy Warhol 

message: 2007: 89 year old Dane Wachowski died after being swarmed by frisbees. He was unconcious for an exceeded amount of time before his Grandpa Sponga identified it was him laying in the park unconcious. 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but does that say an 89 year old man who died, was identified by his grandfather? It seems a little mixed up and I expect it's meant the other way around. I.E. Dane being the grandfather and being identified by Sponga, his grandson? Anyone know? 84.31.80.180 20:09, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Age inconsistency? 

message: I added the death of Soviet cosmonaut trainee Valentin Bondarenko for various reasons. Firstly, the manner of his death was unusual in that he died in a space disaster. Also, his death was succinctly covered up by the Soviet government. Besides, if the Apollo 1 disaster is notable and unusual, this certainly is.
Just thought if would make a valuable addition, I won't object to removal. 82.46.190.172 00:41, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Valentin Bondarenko]] 

message: "1655: Pope Innocent X died and was hidden in a corner for three days..." That is unusual but it isn't his death.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Narcotics faerie (talk • contribs) 03:51, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Remove Pope Innocent X?

message: Removed "2007: Alex Rondel died after being brutally raped in the anus" because it looks like something that a schoolchild who doesn't like Alex Rondel (Whoever that is) would put in. If anyone can come up with citations or what makes this notable, feel free to put it back.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.221.197.20 (talk) 18:58, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Who is Alex Rondel?

message: http://www.snopes.com/horrors/freakish/lawnmower.asp
-Dr. BAH!138.9.25.84 18:50, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who wants to add this guy? 

message: I think overall this is a very good list, until we get up to around the 20th century. It seems that in the 20th and 21st century you have a far greater abundance of deaths, while at the same time many of the items listed are wholly unremarkable. Furthermore, in many ways some of the deaths listed aren't really unusual at all, just uncommon, or rather, improbable. What exactly is the standard we're using here to define an "unusual death"? Calgary 04:18, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Cleanup of Latter portion of article

message: "Dark Ages" is not commonly used in a scholarly fashion anymore, and in any case these divisions are 1) pretty euro-centric and 2) arbitrary. Would it not be better to divide the article into centuries instead of these epochs that don't hold any relevance to some of the deaths mentioned? Nach0king (talk) 09:58, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Era subheadings

message: I would like to hear an argument in favor of keeping Bakenranef, the Pharaoh who got burned alive. How is this an unusual way to die? (considering the number of witch-burnings, ceremonial pyres etc.) -- Wikigeek @ gmail  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.62.106.234 (talk) 23:13, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not So Unusual Deaths V 

message: Maybe some cop will think twice before pull the taser trigger. They are learnt that's "non-lethal" :(  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.77.148.137 (talk) 01:27, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Request for example of taser gun death victim

message: His unusual death (while working in a laboratory that collapsed) is not mentioned in his Wikipedia article (sleeping in a shoddy wing of the papal palace).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.191.23.51 (talk) 03:19, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pope John XXI 

message: His page says he died of a heart attack; here it says he died of gangrene. I don't know which one to believe. Also, isn't it time for an archive? I don't know how to do it.-Babylon pride (talk) 21:50, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Allan Pinkerton 

message: Should it be added? Here's the link: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=4500473  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.246.138.205 (talk) 21:55, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: ADD. I think that this would certainly count as "unusual". --JeffJ (talk) 11:33, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Do not add. This is, unfortunately, not unique, and you don't have to be morbidly obese to do so accidentally. :( --Kizor 14:47, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Maybe not unique, but certainly unusual. I've never heard of a child being crushed to death in this manner. --JeffJ (talk) 05:30, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Academic. It now appears that police are investigating this as a murder and not an accident. Apparently the obese relative assaulted the toddler with 2 blows to the head causing dead. Definitely NOT unusual. --JeffJ (talk) 05:43, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Obese relative may have crushed toddler 

message: Re: Deleted entry for 2006: Megan Meier, a 13 year-old girl with ADHD and other disorders from Missouri committed suicide... I think this entry is more notable than the usual cases of bullying in that it was an adult woman, pretending to be a teenage boy, who did the bullying. This incident also received a fair amount of notoriety in international media.
I think this entry should remain. --JeffJ (talk) 00:40, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree, but obviously it's a judgment call open to consensus (as is the next one). Does anybody else care to chime in? - DavidWBrooks (talk) 11:40, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree with you that bullying is not unusual, however the method in this case is. This was apparently a very elaborate set-up by another girl's mother, posing as a teenage boy, for the purpose of emotionally damaging Megan. That in itself is very unusual, if not completely unique. IMHO. --JeffJ (talk) 18:03, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

text:  This entry also strikes an emotional chord above conventional bullying in that there was such malicious cunning and aforethought. --JeffJ (talk) 18:16, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Megan Meier 

message: Re: 2007: Carol Anne Gotbaum, 45, while in police custody... I don't think that this entry should have been deleted because it was not suicide, but an unusual mishap leading to an accidental death.--JeffJ (talk) 00:50, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The details are in dispute - she may have done it on purpose while depressed. But more importantly, dying by a stangulation accident/suicide/whatever while in police custody happens (alas) not that rarely. Deaths have to be really unusual (or happen to a really notable person) to make this list, or the article will bewcome thousands of pages long.- DavidWBrooks (talk) 11:40, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The death is somewhat unusual. Perhaps if there were more information about the exact mechanism of death. Maybe if we can establish stronger noteriety, otherwise I might be inclined to agree with the deletion. --JeffJ (talk) 16:23, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

text: Obviously this whole page is subjective (that's why there have been attempts to delete it entirely), so no tried-and-true measure can exist on an "unusual death" - but I still think she doesn't belong because accidental deaths in police custody aren't unusual. Just because it's in the media at the moment is not enough (IMHO). I won't remove it, though - DavidWBrooks (talk) 15:14, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'm hoping that someone else will help out here. I have to admit that I'm sitting on the fence with this one. It IS unusual, but not extraordinarily so. Maybe not so much unusual as it is out of the ordinary... --JeffJ (talk) 18:10, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Carol Gotbaum|Carol Anne Gotbaum]] 

message: Re: 1999: Drum and Bass producer and DJ Kemistry died in a car accident where a loose cat's eye... Dying in a car accident is hardly unusual even from flying debris. If we included every instance of this type of accident, this article would soon be choked with similar deaths. In 1997, in Ontario, Canada there were over 200 incidents of road debris-related accidents, including at least 2 fatalities. This prompted the creation of the Comprehensive Road Safety Act, which has dramatically reduced the number of similar accidents in recent years. So I will reiterate that flying debris deaths are not a common occurrence compared to other motor vehicle accidents, but are still common enough to prompt specific legislation in at least one jurisdiction.--JeffJ (talk) 13:45, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The opening paragraph states: "The list also includes less rare, but still unusual, deaths of prominent people." I personally think that a notable individual who dies in a car accident after someone throws a cat's eyeball into the vehicle is rather unusual. Certainly something I haven't heard of before. But, will leave it out. ExRat (talk) 13:52, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  For clarity, a cat's eye in this context is one of those little reflectors embedded in the the road surface to make lanes on the highway more visible at night. It's very common for them to come loose and be kicked up by vehicles. --JeffJ (talk) 14:52, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Good clarification - that definitely (IMHO) makes it not notable enough to list. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 17:30, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  1999 Death of "Kemistry" in car accident. 

message: I have removed this entry several times now.  I doesn't belong per the stated purpose of the list.  Does the editor who keeps reinserting it have and information as to why it should be added?--Adamfinmo (talk) 01:42, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Richard Sumner

message: Anyone want to explain why this entry was removed? I ask for information purposes only. --JeffJ (talk) 04:51, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Presumably for lack of an article referencing the death. As it says at the top of the list, "To be included on this list, an unusual death has to receive mention in the Wikipedia article of a person, or the death itself has to be the focus of a Wikipedia article." Considering that Zagorski herself would not really be an appropriate subject for an article per WP:BLP1E, and the death itself was not sufficiently notable as an event to have its own article, it is unlikely to be included here. --MCB (talk) 06:22, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Judy Kay Zagorski]]