Talk:Galician Russophilia

message: I've started this new article and already wonder about the name.  This movement occurred among people whose descendents today mostly consider themselves to be Ukrainian, from Ukraine.  However they themselves did not consider themselves to be Ukrainian (or, considered Ukrainians to be Russians).  But could there be a better name?  Galician Russophiles wouldn't fit, because this ideology also existed outside Galicia, in Zakarpatia.  I suppose the current term is best unless someone has a better idea.
Also, perhaps the title should be changed to Ukrainian Russophilia to better reflect the history of this movement, although I have no idea how to change the name of an article...Faustian 03:30, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Article name

message: The article deals with the figures central to the formation of the Ukrainian national identity in Galicia, which obviously would have major consequences for Ukraine as a whole.  So it should be at least mid importance, not low.Faustian 16:07, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please read this :ru:Галицийское генерал-губернаторство. The World War one section is very POVed and needs to be neutralised. --Kuban Cossack 23:52, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

text: whose "nationalists"? Moscovitian? Agreed. Their miserable attemts "to declare" russians in Haličina indeed are something maniacal. At least for those who aren't introduced with russian imperialism.
Ukrainophiles were for halichian "peasants", thus for their own people, their language, culture; moscvophiles were for russian tsars, their seminatural late adopted by ugrofinns oldchurch language from Macedonia Slavs in kyiv redaction, they just wanted to be a part of russia. They absolutely ignored who their people lived with them actually were. They don't speak to them in language which those understood. This artificial movement was due to heavily denationalization of ukraine. It was ugly and antinatural and  imevitably and absolutely naturally failed. It have nothing to the geneologic investigations dont say the lye. But you with yours antiukrainian feelings and maybe ukrainian origin you of course free to call yours ancestors the russians. For this such an odd movement isn't needed even. But if your ancestor are from halichina, such the view doesn't make this something better than brainwashed idiotism, despite how much times you recall the "nationalists" with negative connotations. Ukrainians survived thank to the "nationalists". So you can now hate them.
77.52.154.198 (talk) 01:19, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Importance

message: While the Austrian suppression was important and has been described in the body of the article, the Russophiles were largely defeated on the grass-roots level by Ukrainophile (Narodnik) activists, who fanned out into the villages teaching the peasants, organizing cooperatives and credit unions, reading rooms, etc without any foreign assistance (indeed, their self-reliance was a matter of pride).  Many of the young rural parish priests working to establish Ukrainian literacy among their peasant flock were doing so semi-secretly, against the wishes of their Russophile hierarchs.  
The suppression of the Russophiles certainly helped to finish them off, but did not seem to be the main factor in their eclipse, so it should not be emphasized in the article's introduction.  regards Faustian 03:44, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The article notes that by 1914 there were 900 Ukrainophile coops and 106 Russophile coops.  regardsFaustian (talk) 20:29, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Austrian involvement in the eclipse of the Russophiles in Galicia

message: There is a part of Russophilia article that covers the same subject. I suggest the two should be merged, as this one looks like a fork of the other.--Hillock65 03:17, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oppose. The Western UA Russophilia is a very distinct phenomenon. History of Ukraine includes History of Kiev, does not mean they should be merged. Please read the talk page above. --Irpen 03:27, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  As a political movement Moskvofilstvo is largely known as a western Ukrainian phenomenon. Parts of the other article discuss Russophile movements in Galicia and Bukovyna as well. --Hillock65 03:32, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Russophilia is a wider term than the Ukrainian political movement the same way as the Russophobia is a wider term than the Ukrainian movement. The scope of the other article, from this title, is very general. The political movement here is much more specific. History of UA and History of Kiev analogy applies. The latter topic, while being part of the former, concentrates on a particular aspect of it (goes in detail on what goes on in Kiev). Does not mean they should be merged but does not mean that every detail about Kiev belongs to the History of UA article. --Irpen 03:38, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge 

message: What is the RE-union? It implies parts were together at one time. Western Ukraine has NEVER been together with Russia. Rus and Russia are not the same, just as Ukraine and Rus are not the same. These imperialist insinuations do not belong here. Secondly, overall philia as opposed to Russophobia? This is not English, at least not intelligible English. If you have objections to my edit, please note them at the discussion page, let's not start another revert war. --Hillock65 22:17, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Please also note, that per WP:V references to Live Journal and blogs are unacceptable. --Hillock65 22:47, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  What the RE-union? 

message: Immediately before the outbreak of World War I, the Austrian and Hungarian governments held numerous treason trials of those suspected of Russophile subversives. When the Austrians were driven from Galicia in August 1914, they avenged themselves upon suspected Russophiles and their families. Hundreds were shot, and thirty thousand were sent to the Talerhof concentration camp, where approximately three thousand died of exposure.
*So who avanged who?, according to the passage Russophiles avenged upon Russophiles, since no one else could and Austrians were driven out. Is this a puzzle? --Hillock65 22:56, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Something is not right in this paragraph 

message: Hillock65, please don't revert the spelling without comment.  The spelling "Moscowphile" looks and sounds quite wrong, a combination of the Anglo-Saxon name of the city with a Latin suffix.  It should be analogous to the Ukrainian moskofil (not moskvafil), with a Latinate prefix. In the same way, we write Russophile/Rusofil, not Russiaphile/Rosiafil.
But don't listen to me, the spelling "Moscophile" is used in two articles in Kubijovyč's encyclopedia:
* E. Vytanovych. "The Western Ukrainian Lands Under Austria and Hungary, 1772–1918", p 700.
* S. Vyvytsky and S. Baran. "Western Ukraine under Poland", p 839.
Both articles are in Kubijovyč, Volodymyr ed. (1963). Ukraine: A Concise Encyclopædia, Vol. 1. Toronto: University of Toronto Press. . 
Regards. —Michael Z. 2007-07-31 05:44 Z
* "-phile" is Greek.  Many English words containing ph are.Pustelnik (talk) 18:40, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moscophile 

message: I claim that you have to have a functioning government to be patriotic to (patria="fatherland") if you are going to call this patriotism.  In the context of pre and post World War I, any reasonably uniform group of people could declare itself a "nation".  The Ukrainian movement (or the Rusyn one) would therefore be nationalism, not patriotism. Pustelnik (talk) 04:07, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Why do you believe that fatherland has to have a political border?  Patriotism is love for one's fatherland.  Nationalism is somewhat synonymous, but is more extreme and often implies chauvinism.  The 19th century Ukrainophiles were not all extremists.  Indeed, most were moderates in the sense that they worked within the Austrian system and their attitudes were encouraged by the Austrians.  Magosci, I believe, wrote that within Austria one could be both an Austrian and a Ukrainian patriot.  The dictionary definitions of patriotism and nationalism overlap somewhat but there are differences.  Patriotism  is "devoted love, support, and defense of one's country; national loyalty", while one of the definitions of nationalism  is "excessive patriotism; chauvinism".Faustian (talk) 05:23, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Both patriotism and nationalism have articles on Wikipedia.  I agree that there is overlap, and I will not change it back, but I still think you are wrong. What country did the Ukrainians have to be  patriotic to?  The Autro-Hungarian Empire? They may have had a nation, but they did not have a country of their own. Pustelnik (talk) 14:43, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Patriotism versus Nationalism 

message: The terms are usually synonymous in the most important mainstream literature, such as in the [Encyclopedia of Ukraine] ("Russophiles (rusofily, or moskvofily)").  To avoid confusion it's probably best to use just one term, or at least have a paragraph describing the different nuances somewhere in the end of the article not in the lede.Faustian (talk) 13:43, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Russophiles, Moscowphiles 

message: This article includes no information about Ukrainian Russophiles after World War I, this article should information about modern Ukrainian Russophiles. Charles Essie (talk) 23:08, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: They largely ceased to exist as a phenomenon in western Ukraine (the focus of this article is the specific movement that developed in Austrian-ruled western UKraine in the 19th-early 20th centuries - it should probably be renamed) after World War I.Faustian (talk) 19:41, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Modern Ukrainian Russophiles 

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thread_title:  External links modified