Talk:Salam Daher

message: 'Dhimwit' wrote: "I don't think one person's opinion is sufficient to decide whether or not something is 'unencyclopedic'." It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of rule. And since I am not intimately familiar with all of the rules, perhaps some knowledgeable soul could advise us both? Personally, I am happy to see your link included here. 82.42.133.198 21:54, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: External Links

message: The ironic thing about the blogospheric bloviations on this guy is that he is very likely a Christian, and therefore not exactly a natural Hezbollah supporter... -- ChrisO 19:59, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You have completely rewritten the article without prior debate on the talk pages, which you appear to mistake for some public discussion forum to air your opinions Rune X2 21:08, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just being bold. The previous article was quite simply awful, and in no way compliant with Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons - some of the editors seemed to have forgotten that Wikipedia is not a soapbox. I think the current article is a big improvement. -- ChrisO 21:41, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Not quite. The "naming confusion" section of the article goes into some detail on this. His name is most probably Salam Daher, as he was identified under that name both before and after the strike (and crucially, before he was identified as "Green Helmet"), and he was photographed and named by AP. We don't know for sure that Abu Shadi Jradi is Daher, as we have nothing definitively linking them. In any case, it's not a given name; it's an honorary name of a type common among Arabs. If it's Daher's honorary name, it signifies nothing other than that he has a son called Shadi Dradi. As for the "Abdel Qader" name, I'm growing increasingly suspicious of the way the Al Jazeera piece has been interpreted. The entire non-Arab-speaking blogosphere seems to have relied on one person's summary of what it says (including the name) and I've not found any transcript of it. I'll see if I can find an Arab-speaking Wikipedian to look at the video. -- ChrisO 07:52, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ironies

message: One AP wire story has him named Abu Shadi Jradi. Rune X2 21:25, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Abu means "father of" - I believe this is an example of a kunya, an honorific name. Shadi is an Arabic male name, while Jradi is probably a family or clan name. It's quite common for Arabs to have (in effect) two names, their "real" name (like "Salam Daher") and an honorific name (like "Abu Shadi Jradi"). It's not clear that Salam Daher is in fact Abu Shadi Jdradi - this report of August 7 refers to "ambulance driver Shadi Jdradi" in Tyre. I would guess that "Abu Shadi Jdradi" is either the kunya of Salam Daher himself or is a colleague of Daher, perhaps a member of his rescue team. -- ChrisO 21:37, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Nice idea, but no! :-) -- ChrisO 07:07, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Sounds like it. You can see Jouaya (or Jwayya) on this map, situated just northeast of Qana. According to Daher, he's been living in Tyre since 1996. Daher is definitely not the only rescue worker in southern Lebanon! -- ChrisO 07:55, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Abu Shadi Jradi 

message: What is with the random quotations of words? This type of behaviour is not wanted here. 124.168.3.10 06:44, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV 

message: This article should be moved to Green Helmet guy. This guy was 3 different claimed names by different media sources. Washington Post has named him "Abu Shadi Jradi." Associated Press has named him "Salam Daher." Al Jazeera has named him "Abdel Qader." Other places name him "Mr. Shadi" or "Abu Shadi." 124.168.3.10 07:01, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've dealt with this now in the article under "Naming confusion". -- ChrisO 08:04, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Obviously no one believes this "Salam Daher" nonsense - there is not even an attempt to explain the pronunciation of "Salam Daher", "(Abu) Shadi Jradi", "Abdel Qader" - but bunches of redirects: Mr. Green Helmet, Green Helmet Guy, Green Helmet Man, Green Helmet,... --217.237.151.227 17:43, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: When you say "no one" you mean "carpet-chewing conspiracy theorists", don't you? Bloggers' speculations don't count as a reliable source, fortunately. -- ChrisO 18:06, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move 

message: In the show on 16.8.2006, ZAPP explained that many asked "where did you get this video footage?", and said that it was ordinary news footage that was already available around the world - only that they were the first to notice the "director" activities of "Green Helmet man". --Tilman 06:32, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In that case it's probably from Al Jazeera, since they had a crew on site. -- ChrisO 07:41, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  ZAPP update (show from 16.8.2006) 

message: The whole Green Helmet controversy was started by the blog, even ChrisO accepted this. Not mentioning the blog takes away everything. The beginning of the article specifically mention bloggers. ZAPP came much, much later.
You also deleted another sentence; this resulted that the next sentence meant something completely different. So I'll just revert everything again. --Tilman 18:00, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, we need to mention the blogs. WP:RS mostly excludes us from using blogs as primary sources for external facts. However, we are allowed to use them in certain limited circumstances. Where blogs have become part of the story, that is obviously a relevant fact that needs to be mentioned. For instance, it's highly relevant to the Monica Lewinsky scandal that the Drudge Report broke the story. In this case, the Salam Daher controversy was indeed started by a blog, and this fact was documented in several mainstream media sources. -- ChrisO 18:55, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Did you notice that I put "rv", then "2rv", then "3rv" in the comment? I know about 3RR and that someone else will have to revert if you delete again. But the current version seems to be ok. --Tilman 05:16, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Using the blog 

message: From what I can tell, the photo here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5369278.stm held up by the President of Lebanon looks like it might be this same guy. Does anyone have access to a higher resolution picture of the President, or the photo that he is holding?
:It's the same guy - that was a widely distributed press agency photo. -- ChrisO 08:04, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photo used by Lebanon President?