Talk:Mirror Universe

message: There oughta be a Template:Star Trek Mirror Universe stories template, just as there's an Template:Star Trek Time travel stories template. The bars on the bottom, such as the one from Crossover (DS9 episode), are insufficient and inconsistently used. Mdiamante 19:10, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: 	Template needed 	

message: ----
The Mirror Universe never diverged.  Every universe Worf visits in Parallels has its own Mirror Universe  (by the way, Worf never makes it home because in his universe, Spot is a male long-haired Somali-cat, while after Parallels, Spot is a female common house-cat and births baby kittens).  Universes are paired.  The natural tendency of universes is to diverge, but the pairing causes convergence.  The result is a theme and variation.  The paired universes were, are, and always will be similar, but never identical.---— Ŭalabio 08:30, 2005 May 7 (UTC)
*	Your ideas are intriguing, but thorougly speculative. You're assuming that the writers of Parallels had the Mirror Universe in mind when they sent Worf on his cross-timeline journey. But there's no evidence of that. Quite the contrary -- it seems obvious that the Mirror Universe was one of many TOS concepts that were abandoned by TNG writers, and only revived later in DS9. Fans can insist that there has to be a theory that reconciles the parallel universe concept with the Mirror Universe, but "official" Star Trek has never bothered to provide one.  ¶ Despite its non-verifiability, I like your theory, because its the first one I've heard that explains why everybody in the MU is so paranoid and violent, something a "point of divergence" does not. ¶ Be sure to check out Mirror Universe Timeline before it goes away! ---- Isaac R 18:12, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes there is; Whatever the point of divergence was, or might have been, there would exist branching out from that point every possible outcome from the divergent event, it is therefore extremely likely that in one of those many branching timelines there would exist characters and events which parallel those in the one of the timelines which originate from the other outcome of the original POD.Number36 00:03, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Data explains in Parallels "For any event, there is an infinite number of possible outcomes. Our choices determine which outcomes will follow. But there is a theory in quantum physics that all possibilities that can happen, do happen in alternate quantum realities."  This explains how the Mirror universe could be so similar and yet so different.  James Hogan's The Proteus Operation uses such a mechanic where Time Travel involves going to a parallel universe.--BruceGrubb (talk) 11:29, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: 	The Mirror Universe never diverged.	

message: While the serial Inferno may have been inspired by the Mirror Universe (MU), the Crime Sindicate of America (CSA) first appeared in the comic books in August 1964, beating the Mirror Universe by three years. Therefore, the following section:
"The Mirror Universe concept has been used by Doctor Who in the serial Inferno and by the Justice League of America in stories featuring the Crime Syndicate of Amerika. It is unclear to what extent these have been inspired by the Star Trek setting."
Both ideas, Earth 3 (where the CSA lived) and the Mirror Universe are probably based on similar concepts, but it is logically impossible for the Syndicate to have been inspired by the MU.
:Quite right. Changed. Daibhid C 16:56, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good grief. Star Trek  was a lot of things, but it didn't originate any ideas that I'm aware of.  Popularised them, certainly. Barsoomian (talk) 15:58, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Crime Syndicate 

message: I seem to recall a Trek Today or TrekWeb news item that indicated that Manny Coto ... or some other writer ... was planning to write a novel continuing the Enterprise-era Mirror Universe stories, since Coto was unable to produce a follow-up for season 5. I can't find the news story anywhere, but if anyone can find a link to confirm the facts, it might be worth noting in either the Enterprise or Novels sections. 23skidoo 06:42, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Upcoming ENT-era MU novel?

message: Is this true?  I've seen the episode in question several times, and while Vic is definitely "real" (not a hologram), I didn't see any evidence that he was an android.  (It would make sense, though, seeing as how both would then be artificial lifeforms...) (an anonymous user)
*I read this in the main article and immediately jumped to this discussion to post the same question. Perhaps if a third doubter happens along, the designation of mirror-Vic as an android should be deleted. I still claim that this is the funniest site gag in Star Trek history. When mirror-Vic, who can't exist outside the holosuite in the regular universe, bursts out guns ablazin' then gets whacked within about five seconds with no explanation, it's sublimely hilarious. Pardon me if I missed it, but the main article should work in the idea of high camp in the mirror universes of the modern Star Trek. It's not merely that the mirror-characters are more violent or sexual--they're send-ups of violence and sexuality. And the characters who get "toned down," like Brunt or Quark, are specifically parodies of their non-mirror selves. JimmyTheSaint 00:51, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Now wait a second. I have freeze-framed episode 7.12 "The Emperor's New Cloak" at time code 11:22. Mirror-Vic is lying dead and the wound looks consistent with the way biological wounds from energy weapons are displayed: charred stuff with a bit of glowing embers underneath. Looks consistent with body tissue burning at a high temperature. Nothing else about mirror-Vic looks androidian, for example, he has  messed up hair like a human, whereas Data and Lor always had plastic looking slicked back hair. I don't think it's reasonable to conclude that mirror-Vic is anything but human, so I'm taking that out of the main article. JimmyTheSaint 05:56, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I did the same, and there seemed to be some metalic-grey stuff on the wound.  BTW, Dada often had bad hair- take that ep where the probe blocks his memory and the locals think he's an Ice-Man.  He obviously isn't a hologram, he can't be biological unless he's a clone- but how would a mirror universe where humans are slaves (or any universe for that matter) have the DNA of a 1960s guy? And most humans wouldn't stand in an open space during a firefight, an android who considers himself somewhat invincible might. --TheTruthiness 00:46, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I like the android idea, and it would have been a great aspect for the writers to make explicit, but there's no clear evidence for it. All we know for certain is that he's not a hologram, so I just wrote "Inexplicably, he's not a hologram..." in the article, which is the most we can claim with confidence. The wound is at most ambiguous: it could possibly be showing fried mechanical guts, but just as possibly biological tissue charred and glowing from weapons whose power we're also not sure of. Granted, the hair is not strong evidence one way or the other, but in the absence of strong evidence, I think we have to assume he's human. Is there any evidence that the mirror universe even has androids of such authentic quality? JimmyTheSaint 17:05, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mirror Vic an Android? 

message: I am sorry to say that this article failed its GA nomination. Refering to the GA criteria, it failed these specific points:
1a) The prose is not up to GA standards. The article uses long and often confusing sentences, and goes on a lot of tangents in parenthesis.
1b) The article itself does not follow a logical structure. It seems to have been written with no plan, with each editor adding information as they thought of it. The article goes from one section about the TV series, to one section about books, to one section for each game, to "other ramifications" which is again about TV, to parodies, to TV again, and then to the "see also" section which, for some reason, contains a short paragraph about a game.
1c) It does not follow style guidelines for writing about fiction. Specifically, many sections are written with an inappropriate in-universe perspective.
1d) While all terms are wikilinked, the article goes a little overboard on this, and many words and names are wikilinked multiple times. The style guideline is to wikilink only the first occurence of a word.
2a) The article provides no references.
2b) The article provids no citations.
2d) The article contains a lot of original research. For instance, there is a long paragraph on fan speculation of the impact of the Enterprise-E's impact on Cochrane's warp test. 
3a) This article makes no distinction between canon and non-canon "mirror universe" information. Given that canonicity of material is an important issue in the Star Trek franchise, this would be an important point to discuss.
Thank you for your hard work on this page, and fell free to re-submit it once these issues have been settled. Happy editing! -- Ritchy 17:28, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Failed GA 

message: :Image:In a Mirror, Darkly (ENT episode) Part I.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:In a Mirror, Darkly (ENT episode) Part I.jpg

message: I'd contest the point calling DS9's mirror!Ezri bisexual.  To my recollection, there was no mention of any relationships with men, and several lines indicating suggestively that male characters were "not her type"--if we're going to make judgments about characters' sexuality, I'd say that she was a lesbian.  Also, bisexuality does not equal promiscuity; that's just silly.  We saw MU!Ezri with Kira, yes, and it was insinuated with Leeta at the end (and if you take the novels into account, the two married some time later), but that's it.  Leeta was on screen for all of thirty seconds, flirting with one character, thus hardly justifying the above label as well.  I'm removing both references.
CrashCart9 (talk) 20:15, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: If anything, it is Mirror Universe Kira that is bisexual. Lots42 (talk) 10:37, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sexuality of MU!Ezri 

message: I'm considering stubifying this article -- it is laden with long-unaddressed problems such as OR, overwhelming plot trivia, and no real-world perspective. Any substantive objections? --EEMIV (talk) 17:02, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: If you somehow reorganize all the mirror-universe fiction sections into something that makes sense, I will be happy.Lots42 (talk) 06:04, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nuke from above 

message: Anyone else notice that in all of the proper DS9 mirror verse episodes (excluding Resurrection given its inverted format) a Ferengi dies in each one; Quark in Crossover, Rom in Through the Looking Glass, Nog in Shattered Mirror, and Brunt in The Emperor's New Cloak. Anyone know whether this was some sort of ongoing joke? Is this worth mentioning in the article?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dougie89 (talk • contribs) 04:10, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ferengi in the Mirror Universe 

message: Except for the addition of the "Scales of Justice", and the olive branches,  Interpol's logo  closely resembles the Terran empire's logo.
Perhaps this makes senses as the Empire is missing Justice and Peace.
Lent (talk) 00:49, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Terran Empire logo versus Interpol logo 

message: Possibly a useful ref for fleshing things out: https://io9.gizmodo.com/everything-we-know-about-the-timeline-of-star-treks-mir-1822127136 Artw (talk) 19:23, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: (a fair number of spoilers in that article if you are not up to date on Discovery) Artw (talk) 03:50, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Timeline article 

message: * Nerdist, though from November 2017, prior to the Mirror Universe ST;D storyline.
- Jack Sebastian (talk) 23:38, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some sources 

message: So at the moment we have a number of rather sprawling episode summaries, which are largely an artifact of how the Mirror Universe would appear in Star Trek prior to Discovery, showing up periodically in largely stand alone episodes. Obviously Discovery’s extended mirror universe plotlind blows this out of the water and what we have now is looking rather bloated. Given all this should we aggressively trim the episode summaries? Merge multi-part stories into a single listing? Or possibly omit them altogether and take a different approach? Open to suggestions. Artw (talk) 17:24, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  And... done. It may go too far in the opposite direction now, in fact. I ask if anything gets added back in that we try to keep it to details relevant to the mirror universe, and not full plot descriptions of episodes. Artw (talk) 23:37, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Episode summaries 

message: One thing occurred to me when trimming down the plot summaries - we ahve a lot of character descriptions in there, in particular tracking how characters differ from their Prime universe counterparts. Could the article benefit from a "Notable Mirror Characters" section? Artw (talk) 23:41, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notabe characters? 

message: *In Mirror Mirror  Spock predicts that the Terran Empire Will fall in 240 years; In the Deep Space Nine and Emterprise it is shown that 110 years later the vicious Terran Tempire has been replaced by Triple Bajorian-Klingon-Cardassian Alliance..which is equally corrupt...as the old Terran Empire...thus logically in 130 years the Bajorian-Klingon-Cardassian Alliance will fall as well....and perhaps the Terran Empire/Klingon-Cardassain Alliance Universe will fall to THE BORG!!!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.102.156.249 (talk) 19:52, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fate of Empire unknown