Talk:South India/Archive 2

message: The photo uploaded by me (Saree) is actually Setu Mundu. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kjrajesh (talk • contribs) 
:Asked my mom... who saw it for a fraction of a second before confirming it is a two-piece. When I asked her how she could tell, she vaguely said look at the folds :( --hydkat 20:52, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Saree

message: I feel that the South India article was written with a Keralite POV. It would seem much better if all the four states are well-represented.
:Thank you for your suggestion! When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make whatever changes you feel are needed.  Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the  link at the top. You don't even need to log in! (Although there are some reasons why you might like to…) The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills.  New contributors are always welcome. -- thunderboltza.k.a.Deepu Joseph |TALK14:05, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Kerala Emphasis

message: I had deleted the reference to a connection between Dravidian and Uralic languages, but this was reverted by AreJay; I guess I should have explained the deletion here. I mean the following passage:
*"A relationship of the Dravidian language family to other linguistic families has not been established. However, in the presence of many hypotheses, a relationship with Uralic languages appears to most plausible."
This is supported by a reference to Encyclopaedia Britannica. However, the claim is just bizarre: no specialist in Uralic languages has ever supported such an idea. I am not aware of any publication in a peer reviewed journal of the field that would advocate such a connection. I am myself a Uralic  comparative linguist by profession, and in fact I have never even heard any colleague mention such an idea seriously; the idea of a Uralic-Dravidian connection is a joke on par with Uralic-Quechua or Uralic-Egyptian. Hence I will delete the reference. --AAikio 15:47, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've heard of it.  I heard one theory about the similarities between tamil and korean languages.--D-Boy 09:46, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Dravidian-Uralic connection

message: "Anti-Hindi and anti-Tamil movements bore to the front of Karnataka politics in the 1960s and 1970s.[20] The Kaveri water dispute with Tamil Nadu holds an important place in the politics of the state."
Who wrote these lines?  When has anti hindi or anti tamil movements been a part of karnataka politics?  It is high time 
that Kongas here stopped this virulent attitude against all Kannada related articles.  The article cites that Janaki Nair article as reference, but that reference doesnt say anything about anti hindi or anti tamil movements 'bearing the front'(what the hell does that mean anyway) of Ktaka politics in 60s and 70s or at any other time...  and on the other hand, the editors have very cleverly sugarcoated all references to ant-'any language but tamil' in the portion that deals with TN politics.  
am removing it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Balnanmaga (talk • contribs) 02:13, 10 August 2006(UTC).
:its been cited... plz dont remove cited text... you may change it if you feel it is too POV (see WP:NPOV) or confute the citation then remove the text. --hydkat 07:25, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Karnataka Politics

message: This page is 49 kilobytes long. This may be longer than is preferable; see article size.  Mattisse(talk) 11:55, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Its below 6000 words in the main body... which is recommended. The size is mainly because of the pictures in it. Even then it is less than 50Kb. But whether this(size) is preferable or not is a moot point. Nevertheless it is within established guidlines under Wikipedia:article size. -hydkat 15:11, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was just repeating the warning Wikipedia gives when you edit the page. I guess some browsers like Firefox (according to the warning) have trouble with articles of this size. I do think there are too many pictures, but that is a personal preference thing.  Mattisse(talk) 15:29, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: P.S. Why does it say down at the bottom of this talk page Categories: India articles without a WikiProject in red? Just curious.  Mattisse(talk) 15:34, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Everybody thinks they are too many pictures in this article :). As for the category, beats me! Maybe it doesn't belong to a specialised category under Wikipedia:WikiProject India --hydkat 15:48, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article is too long 

message: Should be included as part of South India ?64.201.162.1
:No, the islands are not part of the geographic region of South India.-- thunderboltz(Deepu) 15:03, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Lakshadweep]]

message: I've replaced the galleries with indiv images at location closest to subject matter discussing them... hope its ok. Only the Chalukya territories map is missing.
The gallery is here:
Image:Chola country.png|The Chola, Chera and Pandyas empires.
Image:Chalukya_territories_lg.png|Chalukya Territories during Pulakesin II c. 640 C.E.
Image:chola_map.png|Extent of Chola empire c. 1014 CE
Image:Madras Prov South 1909.jpg|Madras Presidency, 1909
--hydkat 17:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good move, hydkat. Galleries arent generally approved by the community. More images can be provided in the respective sub pages.-- thunderboltz(Deepu) 06:16, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Good move there hydkat.  I hated those galleries and wanted to get rid of them but I didn't want to play with fire and end up getting burned in the process.  AreJay 14:21, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  removed galleries... 

message: Agriculture in South India is largely dependant on  north east monsoon and southwest monsoon and on rivers originating in the western ghats. A wide variety of crops are grown here.
In Tamilnadu, Important harvesting crops are paddy, sugarcane, groundnet, cotton, banana, tapioca, turmeric and coconut. Erode and Coimbatore districts of Tamilnadu play a vital role in producing turmeric. The well known Thanjore delta is largest paddy producing area in south india.
Erode, Coimbatore , Salem , Nammakkal and karur districts highly producing sugarcane in Tamilnadu
--hydkat 11:50, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Agriculture 

message: Is Mahrashtra part of south india? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Woer$ (talk • contribs).
:West India --hydkat 13:26, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Maharashtra 

message: For those interested in the origin of words like 'Karnād' could check this out: --hydkat 10:47, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A link on the Etymology of the word: 'Carnatic'  

message: Wikipedia is used by lot of people on the Internet as a source of information on India, but unfortunately it is used by some anti social and divisive forces to propoagate their point of view,  just take the example of article on North & South India.
 
In the first case the article on North India was written by some misguided South Indians in their quest to vilify the North India which represents the majority population in the country and also reperesentative of mainstream culture. The article on South India was written to glorify it in comparison to North and rest of India. On the other hand the article on North was written as a disparaging and negative misrepresentation of the facts like a) North Indian population was derived from invading rulers from Iran and Turkey b) North India has no dance form c) It represents the Cow belt d) North India represent rural India with no development and economy  f) It shares its musical and cultural heritage with Muslim countries like Pakistan and Bangladesh. The article's history and talk page are the evidence of what I am writing here kindly have a look. 
 
South Indians only represent 20% of India's population and their culture is followed mainly in the four dravidian states of Tamil Nadu, Karanataka, Kerala and Andhra Pradesh. The gross misrepresentation of facts is only possible because they represent large number of editors on wikipedia who are able to misrepresents the facts and demonstrate their point of view due to numerical strength!!
 
The editors/administrators should ensure that neutral point of view is maintained on the both the article on North and South India, Instead of misrepresenting the facts in order to depict South India as a progressive, cultured and industrialised part of India Vs depiction of rest of India as underdeveloped, illiterate and uncultured.
 
a) The richest states with highest per capita GDP are Punjab, Haryana, Himachal, Gujarat & Maharashtra and union territories of Chandigarh and Delhi. None of the four Dravidian states is among the top five in the country.
 
b) Even High Income states are more industrialised, developed and have higher literacy rates than South India. They spend more money per capita on health, education and development than South Indian states.
 
c) South India is not homogeneous and is divided on the basis of four dravadian languages namely Kannada, Tamil, Telugu and Malayalam. They have their own regional differences and disputes. 
 
d) The situation in South India is not very different from rest of India in terms of poverty, malnutrition, unemployment, politics, corruption, riots, Naxal violence, law and order problem, infrastructure, health and education etc. If you compare South with the worst performing states than it may look better, but the problem remain unresolved. Why not compare South india with some developed country in Asia like Singapore which has per capita income of US$ 26,481  Vs South India of only US$ 625. This means the per capita income in Singapore is 43 times higher than South India. This clearly indicates that South india is not very different from rest of India and has to go long way before it can boast of having a distinction of developed nation status like Singapore or Japan--Himhifi 04:21, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would suggest that if you have issues with the way the North India article is written, that you dedicate some time in cleaning that particular article up, instead of bursting a vein and yelling murder on the South India talk page.  The editors that have contributed to this particular article have done a good job thus far.  Having said that, this article is not perfect — I would dare say that no Wikipedia article is.  Your unsubstantiated allegations against people that have contributed to this article isn't constructive.  AreJay 19:56, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Misrepresentation of facts - Needs Clean Up and Expert analysis to maintain Neutral Point Of View! 

message: The article offers these numbers on per capita income: 8433 for North India and 13629 for South India. Is it just me or are these numbers incompatible with other sources? For example, 13629 INR is around 350 USD, yet the per capita GDP is supposed to be more along the lines of 3000+ USD. Did the editor miss a "zero" while adding in these numbers? --67.68.21.212 (talk) 17:17, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think the $3,000 is in relation to GDP PPP.  In addition  to a conversion of INR to USD, the PPP will also factor in intrinsic parameters such as cost of living, cost of labor, etc.  I don't think the USD 350 was adjusted for PPP.  AreJay (talk) 18:52, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Per Capita GDP 

message: There is a confusion in ranking languages according to their number of speakers (either by native speakers or by total speakers). The key thing one need to consider is whether the ranking is based on speakers within India or anywhere in the world. 
In this article its been written that Telugu is the third largest spoken language in India after Hindi and Bengali, which is wrong if you consider speakers within India, as Bengali is spoken in Bangladesh also. So if we consider only Indian speakers, we need rephrase the sentence as "Telugu is the second largest spoken language in India after Hindi". I think if we take speakers in entire world then Telugu ranks 4th of all Indian languages spoken in the world. i.e. Hindi, Bengali(India and Bangladesh), Punjabi(India, Pakistan) and Telugu etc. 
--yny (talk) 19:33, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Demographics 

message: Hi all,
I've replaced the map image with a better high resolution png which I created from the blank india map ().
@AreJay, if possible edit that map by adding cities to it. (or replace this map with ur version which has cities on it)
I prefer having just one map as I felt that having two maps or more maps to illustrate the same area will only be confusing.
TODO: Addition of atleast three major cities per state and kavaratti, capital of lakshadweep. <B><I>Mugunth</I></B>(ping me!!!,contribs) 04:15, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hi Mugunth, I've actually been creating an SVG version of the map per Wikipedia:WikiProject Indian maps which I will upload into this article tomorrow.  SVG files are of significantly higher quality than raster images (png, jpg, gif, etc) and can be edited even with text editors like Notepad.  Incidently, can you please also comment on my response wrt sourcing for the population of speakers of each language (see my comments dated Jan 2, 2008).  Thanks AreJay (talk) 04:30, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Please see discussion on linguistic source below. AreJay (talk) 05:46, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Map changes. 

message: Mugunth, I've been delving deeper into this Ethnologue vs. Census data issue to better understand the discrepencies I've noticed.  The ref provided for Ethnologue data  references "Ethnologue: Languages of the World, 15th ed (2005)" and Wikipedia.  Firstly, per Wikipedia policy, we can't self reference Wikipedia articles (see Wikipedia:Reliable source examples).  Secondly, I reviewed source data from Ethnologue online (, , ).  They have provided a list of sources from which they collected data wrt languages spoken in India.  Not even one of these sources is older than 1998! If you click on the last two links provided above, you'll see that Telugu and Kannada data on Enthologue is as of 1997.  This is clearly outdated data and explains the apparent discrepency between their so-called 2005 data vs. GoI's 2001 census data.  Lastly, Enthologue data isn't providing us with the precision that we're looking for — it has provided data for the population of speakers of certain languages all across India, while we're only interested in the population of speakers of certain languages in states of South India (this is something that is available in census data).  Because of this recent discovery, I'm going to go ahead and remove Ethnologue data...if you're currently assisting with other South Indian language articles, you might want to go ahead and make the necessary changes to those articles as well based on this information. AreJay (talk) 05:46, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Linguistic sources 

message: I plan to archive this talk page within the next couple of days or so.  If anyone would like me to hold off on this on account of on going discussions on this current page, please let me know.  Thanks AreJay (talk) 12:58, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archiving Talk page