Talk:List of American musicians of Irish descent

message: I have removed the refs back to normal links as this makes the page much easier to read. With the refs at the bottom, you have to keep jumping up and down for each entry. Arniep 13:34, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed you do. I have changed the list back and it will remain as such until you can gain consensus to get it moved to this title. Mad Jack 13:40, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It quite clearly much easier to read through the list if the explanations and sources appearnext to the names. Arniep 13:45, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What needs be done is to add exactly what the person is notable for next to the name, because the names look bare sitting there on their own with a number. Otherwise, this shortened the gigantic size of the refs into something smaller, and it restored this into an actual list, which is what it needs to be. The stuff at the bottom is, well, at the bottom. You only see it after you've finished seeing the whole list, or if you chose to before. Mad Jack 13:47, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Samantha Mumba is an Irish born singer - she was born in Dublin to a white Irish mother and a black African father. She remains an Irish Citizen and resides in Ireland - she has no connection to America she belongs on the List of Irish People. 86.12.250.117 15:50, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: African Americans such as Billie Holiday and Ella Fitzgerald may have Irish ancestry and it is probable that they do; the difficulty with this is that unlike Mohamed Ali, the source of their Irish ancestry has never been documented, nor does there appear to ever have been any statement by either singer or biographer providing any historic evidence beyond generalization that they had any Irish ancestry. As discussed and debated before - an Irish name does not make you Irish American and many African Americans have surnames that originated in Ireland and Scotland that were the surnames of the slave owners and were only assumed by the slaves after emancipation. "Irishness" like any identity is more than a genetic or scientific reality - it is a state of mind , people identify with family influences, children born of mixed race parentage, particularly in the 19th and 20th centuries would  have rarely been raised in the "white" parent's enviornment. Therefore any identification with white European heritage would have been rare and had no influence on the individual, unlike for instance whites who would have mixed-european heritage may consider themselves Irish or Italian  or whatever even if their name didn't fit that description because it was possible to have that ethnic influence within a family where the parents and extended families were of different nationalities. Given this I think it unlikely that either Billie Holiday or Ella Fitzgerald had any afinity with Irish Americans and vise-versa. However if someone can identify the exact Irish connection through a verifiable source they should be included in this list. Exclusion does not have anything  to do with their color, they were great talents and would be  an asset to the list but is for the same reason that Nicole Kidman and Dakota Famnning are excluded - both have probable Irish ancestry but it is unclear and not verifiable (yet) so their is no point in including them. 86.12.250.117 15:50, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: references

message: *Michelle Branch - kind of unclear Mad Jack 22:34, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources

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