Talk:High-yield investment program

message: I do not consider 12dailypro.com or Charis Johnson an HYIP - this is an Autosurf. Although the two are closely related, I consider a strong difference. I suggest the elimination of Johnson and other autosurfs from the article. 69.245.177.40 03:09, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Charis Johnson

message: This article is poorly written. Reasons:
(1) Does not cite any reference.
"No HYIP has, as yet, survived for very long without turning out to be a scam."
- I know it's obvious fact. Any proof to back this?
- Some programs listed on Goldpoll last longer than one year, how do you explain?
(2) Incomplete info.
"HYIPs are frequently advertised in spam emails, forums or mailing lists, since people are typically given a commission (for example, 9% of invested funds) when they provide a referral of a new customer."
- A special type of website called HYIP monitoring/rating/listing website provides the best advertising for HYIPS. They are the shills and cheerleaders. Open a new section.
(3) Some are speculations.
"HYIPs typically are not based in the United States, Europe, or Japan - countries that have strong laws against unregistered investment programs."
- How do you conclude this? How do you find out where a scammer reside? Facts: some big scams happened in US and Europe, e.g. 12 daily pro, plexpay.
: This is sometimes 'concluded' by looking at registrar information that can be obtained in Whois searches or by looking at where the site itself is hosted, which is usually obtainable by looking at the routing path via a utility like traceroute. Of course, this only shows where the operations of the HYIP are located not where the owners themselves are physically located, and the whois information can be privatized or falsified. Mordere (talk) 06:30, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: First of all please sign your name with the four tildes. Second, I tried removing some unverifiable and un-dictionary like (example: cheerleaders, typical HYIP investors.. opinions) but it definitely needs more work. Panfakes 14:10, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree with this assessment.  This article is poorly sourced - and I've been working on it for over a year.  However, any balance I try to bring to the article - by suggesting that people who lose money to HYIP's are themselves irrational - gets cut by the "poor me - I'm a victim of HYIP - hey! I heard there's new one - how do I sign up?" crowd.Cadwallader (talk) 04:30, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  I removed a lot of the original research suggesting why people invest in HYIPs as it lacked reliable, verifiable sources. Let the article stand on its own. (For what it's worth, I've never invested in a HYIP.) White 720 (talk) 04:56, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: A Critical Review of this article

message: Sorry, I had to removed the fraudaid link.  This is a commercial site offering "Professional Services" for a fee.  Any information in that link should be included directly into the article rather than simply linking to it.  May I also ask, are you affiliated with this site in any way?  Monkeyman(talk) 17:14, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, it wasn't that useful a site in terms of original arguments.  I was just trying to add additional links so that readers would get a sense sense that there are substantial arguments against HYIPs.  And no, I'm not affiliated with this site in any way - it was just among the top twenty or so google results (with virtually all the rest being pro-HYIP).  John Broughton 20:57, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: fraudaid

message: :Under US law these "games" would be considered illegal lotteries, since one cannot know whether one is playing early enough to win money.
But in a lottery, you have an equal chance of winning no matter when you buy your ticket. So "lottery" is not the right word.. perhaps "gambling"? What do people such as John Broughton (I suspect you watch this page) think? 203.218.88.254 10:11, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  addition by IP 70.18.219.135 

message: Some have tried to spam by changing the link. They might question why I added the site instead of theirs.  is non-hardline information portal for hyip investors maintained by Sirius Clan, an organization who fights hyip scams. I find their reasearch interesting: . The website does not promote any hyip program (you will find they actually denounce it if you explore further). The website is non-profit (except Google adsense which probably is used to cover hosting cost). HYIP monitors promote and advertise hyip programs for referral commissions. In fact some of them do cheerleading for them. They are helpers for many ponzi schemes.  16:07, 27 July 2006 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.21.155.12 (talk • contribs) 
:I've looked at the site, and I agree that it is about the best that can be hoped for, for reliable information.  John Broughton 16:34, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  about the website HYIP Scam Search http://www.stochasticsoccer.com/kakarukeys/ 

message: The stochasticsoccer website is clearly not a reliable source, it's someone's personal website, and worse, it is profitting off the hyip scams by providing links to them.  This is actually common in the HYIP scam world, there are many sites out there which claim to be offering help, which offer the message, "99% of the hyips are scams, here's how to avoid the scams and find the good ones", when in fact there are no good ones, they are all scams.  The very existence of hyip scam databases is part of the scam, as it implies that one can check a HYIP program to see if it's in the database and that this will help avoid being scammed.  When of course the very fact that it's a HYIP means that it is automatically a scam.  --Xyzzyplugh 00:19, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: While what you said has merit, it is incorrect. I'll let the website owner defend himself though. Urban dictionary should be removed, of course, but I'm restoring the other two. 129.31.72.52 09:23, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In what way is what I said incorrect?  The stochasticsoccer page says, at the top of the page, "This website lets you check if an HYIP is a scam. Part of your HYIP due diligence". As all HYIP's are scams, this is clearly falsely implying that some are not.  And note the following policy page: Wikipedia:Reliable_sources#Self-published_sources.  This is a personal webpage, and therefore not a reliable source, and the other link you restored was to a message board posting, even a less reliable source, especially given that it is a message board devoted to these HYIP scams. --Xyzzyplugh 15:31, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

text: After looking a bit at the message board, it's so infested with scams, clearly supported by those running the message board, that I'm going to revert the last edit to the article to remove both those links immediately.  I don't want to get into an edit war, but these scam links don't belong here.  --Xyzzyplugh 15:54, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Unfortunately, the situation is a bit precarious. Although there are investment opportunities which offer a good ROI or yield, no verifiable legitimate, ethical investments market themselves as a "high-yield investment program." There are Junk Bonds which also known as high-yield debts or bonds, but those are all traded on regulated financial markets. I think this article should serve not as a description of a broad category of "investment programs," such as savings, DRPs, mutual funds or bonds, which are all regulated in some form and which happen to have high ROIs, but about the usage of the full term "high-yield investment programs" as a veritable term for numerous ponzi scams which classify and advertise themselves as such.Mordere (talk) 00:34, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Removing reference links to unreliable sources

message: EMOCorp was listed (very possibly by me) as a failed money system started by people associated with HYIP.  That was not factual.  Further research on my part has found that though EMO was taken into receivership and liquidated by the Texas AG, the founder Todd Trideau, has never been publicly associated with HYIP programs.Cadwallader (talk) 04:33, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cut EMOCorp 

message: Apart from the regular spam edits and reversions, someone has deleted several sections of this article in the past month, without discussing it here.  I am reverting it to the last discussed change. Cadwallader (talk) 15:30, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reversions 

message: We added http://www.cashmakersonline.com to the external link page, since we belive this project can help future investors to invest in reputable and reliable investment programs!
We respect the deleting but we cannot accept no public reply in this discussion section. Is there any rule against sites which help people to make the right decision?  --Cashmakersbiz (talk) 21:39, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: There is a rule against self-promotion, yes. We call it spam. Please explore advertising venues other than Wikipedia. Thanks. Haakon (talk) 21:24, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

text: Self-promotion suggest that the site belongs to us, I don't think you meant that do you Haakon..We is my wife Mary and me. Thank you for your advise on advertising venues, but we still stick to that opinion that there is nothing self-promotional when you offer people a place where they can invest 'securely' or at least get the necessary information how to start things and where to invest.  —Preceding unsigned --Cashmakersbiz (talk) 21:39, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Give me a break. Haakon (talk) 21:43, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

text: don't get your point..if you are italian contact Mark Haakon. I won't discuss anymore. We wanted to help inexperienced investors and probably done very bad things.. If you really dislike cashmakersonline.com as an independent project dismiss it. w.b.regards --Cashmakersbiz (talk) 21:51, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The point is that it is very obvious that you are, in fact, Mark the owner of the site. But of course you understand that, which is why you don't want to "discuss" anymore. Haakon (talk) 21:58, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The title of "cashmakersonline.com" is "Make money through online investing in high yield investment programs hyip".  Any questions? --John Nagle (talk) 07:10, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  We want a public answer for deleting an independent assessment project!

message: Some editors have been adding information about JustBeenPaid (JBP), an "indefinitely sustainable" program, to this article as an example of a legitimate HYIP. The only thing that makes this program sustainable is that its proprietor can "restart" it by switching from a Ponzi scheme (2% per day payout) to a pyramid scheme (matrixes where $80 comes in on the bottom level and $60 is paid out on the top level). Both of these schemes operate by taking money from people within the program to pay people within the program, although the pyramid scheme part actually pays out less by funneling money to the operators. JBP meets both the definition of an HYIP by promising unrealistically high returns in a short period of time (as a Ponzi scheme) and the definition of a pyramid scheme by generating income purely from within the program. White 720 (talk) 03:27, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  JustBeenPaid 

message: I have deleted references to HYIPs being "run online." There is no source to say why this is a notable trait of a HYIP. HYIPs are not necessarily run 100% online: some encourage players to recruit people by networking on-line and off-line, for example. That they have a web site and a web-based back office are not notable; my bank has those, and I use them almost entirely, but my bank is not "run online." White 720 (talk) 23:37, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Being run online 

message: What do you guys think of www.HourlyRevShare.Net ?   Should we add it to the Article?  It has many of the qualities of a Ponzi scheme, or HYIP.  Wikipedia can be a public service, protecting consumers, by bringing out the truth.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by StudentJ10873 (talk • contribs) 23:49, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  HourlyRevShare.net 

message: Please do not add instructions on how to do due diligence before investing in a HYIP to this page, for these reasons:
#Wikipedia is not a place for instruction manuals — see WP:NOTGUIDE.
#This duplicates information in the due diligence page.
#Because a HYIP is a Ponzi scheme, no amount of due diligence will prevent a program from collapsing under the weight of its own obligations.
Any information added to this page must be supported by reliable sources — see WP:RS. Any additional instructional material will be deleted. 24.18.227.206 (talk) 16:08, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Due diligence section 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on High-yield investment program. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070715170658/http://www.sec.gov/divisions/enforce/primebank/pbaction.shtml to http://www.sec.gov/divisions/enforce/primebank/pbaction.shtml
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thread_title:  External links modified