Talk:Manhattan Beach, California

message: On 092508 I removed the entire section, "Early inhabitants, Spanish discovery and settlement", because it was plagiarized and an explicit copyright violation.
For example, the opening paragraph was as follows:  "In 1837, Antonio Ygnacio Avila received a land grant from Mexico for Rancho Sausal Redondo consisting of 22,500 acres. What is now Manhattan Beach was part of Rancho Sausal Redondo. The Rancho was sold to Sir Robert Burnett who used the land for sheep and cattle raising. In 1873, Sir Robert Burnett leased the land to Daniel Freeman and returned to his native Scotland. Freeman moved to the ranch with his family and increased the stock plus planted citrus trees. The 1875 drought ruined the livestock’s industry and he turned to dry farming. Freeman purchased the land in the 1880s but fell into financial difficulties and sold off the land."  This is lifted word-for-word from the Manhattan Beach Historical Society's website, which bears the authoriship claim of Bonnie Beckerson and an explicit copyright claim.  See <http://history90266.org/HistoryMB.htm>.
Therefore, this entire section must be rewritten and, until then, may not be included.
For the time being, I have inserted a bare reference in the article to the above-referenced website.  Oconnell usa (talk) 15:48, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Early Inhabitants 

message: This section needs a complete rewrite.  It is filled with non-sequiturs and lacks cites.  Hopefully a knowledgable historian who is a skillful writer will complete this task.  If not, I'll try to do it by Spring, 2009.  Oconnell usa (talk) 23:38, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Whoever authored this article should edit the POV referencing that the land grants were not title to the land....and in 1784, this area was part of the original Rancho San Pedro that was parcelled off later...DonDeigo 16:48, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Early Development 

message: Me and my friend are going to add a lot of content to the History section and other parts of this page.  Mike, what is your last name? i might possibly know you.  its a small town —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Evanthomas1 (talk • contribs) .
===Early Development===
In 1863 a Scottish immigrant, Sir Robert Burnett, purchased Rancho Sausal Redondo and Rancho Aguaje De Centinela from Avila's heirs for $33,000.  Ten years later in 1873, Burnett decided to leave the California sunshine and head back for Scotland.  He found Canadian Daniel Freeman to watch over the ranch and they agreed to a lease for the ranch.  Freeman moved his wife and three children onto the ranch and started producing various crops.  On May 4th, 1885 Freeman 
bought the ranch from Burnett for $140,000.  TBC Evan
===Original Spanish Land Grant, 1784===
See [] DonDeigo 19:37, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: note: I changed the copyright violation in the above message to a link to the original text. BlankVerse 00:43, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  MBmike 

message: See [] DonDeigo 19:37, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: note: I changed the copyright violation in the above message to a link to the original text. BlankVerse 00:43, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Original Spanish Land Grant, 1784

message: Ive edited this section accordingly, and the official ownership map of Rancho San Pedro, with links for citation is attached and referenced in the notes section..., and a portion of South Bay history reference; Maureen Megowan; has agreed to update her copyrighted version due to the proof from the Cal State Dominguez historical archives ( see links)....what you need to do is stop the POV in reference to not having title to the land....you should read some archive literature and see the struggles these folks had over these lands from day one....i.e., mission land politics vs ranchos, Californio / Mexican, Americans, etc.... DonDeigo 21:38, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Original Spanish Land Grant, 1784

message: :Image:Seal manhattan beach ca.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Seal manhattan beach ca.png

message: As of the end of 2008, I am removing the Trivia section from the article, per Wiki guidelines.  However, I am including the data here, with the hope that another editor will rewrite much of this information in the relevant sections of the main article (e.g. a separate section or subsection on the MN Open.  Oconnell usa (talk) 00:40, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: So retitle the section "In Film and TV" or "In popular culture". I think the information make the article and the encyclopedia better, and I think the listing method is useful. Writing it out in paragraphs is going to make it much less accesible. This isn't random trivia that's trivial, it's a listing of notable filmography and events from the area. The ones that aren't appropriate should be moved, merged, or redacted, rather than removing all of it. That's my opinion anyway. ChildofMidnight (talk) 04:37, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Child f Midnight,  The trivia is going back up because it is certainly interesting and 100% correct.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.185.210.222 (talk) 21:23, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Trivia

message: If any editors would like to collaborate on improving this article, please leave a message here, with a time when you'll be online, and we'll coordinate then.  Oconnell usa (talk) 08:40, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I have been a lifelong resident of this beautiful city.  I'd like to help with the history or any other relevant topic. (AdamJP (talk) 04:27, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

text: Bah, sorry, I should have posted my comment here. Anywho, I can see if there is an uncopyrighted map available from city hall if that could help. Also, I have a question about the "politics" section; are all the results of all propositions going to be listed? Eisande (talk) 04:26, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the help.  And yes, I too think that we should delete the irrelevant politics stuff.  Oconnell usa (talk) 04:47, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Collaborators Wanted 

message: As of 122908, I am working to define the neighborhood boundaries and characteristics of the many neightborhoods in MB.  I have included cites to the main sources.  For historical purpses, another cite is http://www.90266realestate.com -- I am also working to obtain a non-copyrighted map to include in the article.  Oconnell usa (talk) 19:17, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sir, do you think that some might see the adding of all the "This is known to realtors as Area 42" is really necessary? Could it not be construed as self serving if in fact you are in the real estate business? I think the addition of a non copy righted map would be great and I might be able to help with that.Eisande (talk) 04:22, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Re the Manhattan Beach map project, no, I'm not in real estate -- I've lived here almost 20 years and still don't know (e.g.) the location of the Gas Lamp Neighborhood.  I inserted the Area 41 etc info, because the MLS has defined these boundaries.  If you can find a non-cr map of the neighborhoods, great.  Alternatively, find a cite to the actual boundaries, and we can create our own map.  I understand from the City Clerk that the Council has not defined any of the boundaries (but it did rename MB North).  Oconnell usa (talk) 04:46, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neighborhoods 

message: Can someone explain the criteria for including propositions and their associated data?Eisande (talk) 04:21, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Propostions

message: Here is the diff for comparison of the two article versions . I think the main difference is the current version breaks Manhattan Beach down into sections and discusses each one and the removal of teh extensive notable resident section.ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:53, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Dispute over article versions

message: why does the article only have development history while city history is left up to a link to the historical society?  why can't the article have the entire city history?  I find that suitable for such an article. (AdamJP (talk) 04:40, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: city history

message: I'm thinking about removing the 'neighborhoods' section, or at least making it more concise. The list of neighborhoods is pointless and takes up a lot of space.  The information it provides is useless.  Discuss whether this should be removed or not.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Evanthomas1 (talk • contribs) 05:47, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd suggest that it be incorporated or meshed into the Locale section. --Funandtrvl (talk) 22:30, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I notice this section has no references, while the balance of the article is very well referenced. Portions of this section appear to be written as promotional material. I agree with Evanthomas that it should be removed and/or, as Funandtrvl notes, be merged into Locale. Whether the section remains or is merged, it needs references to reliable sources and portions need to be rewritten IMHO, particularly the sub-section titled "East Manhattan Beach." Geoff Who, me?  01:24, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Geoff - I discussed the "East Manhattan Beach" constant edits with you a while back, and appreciate your diligence at watching those disruptions. It seems that they got it back in there again and someone else tried editing it to make it sound better - but, there really is no "East" side of town, other than physically that is. The town has an area of less than 4 miles. Wealthier residents tend to live in the western part, of course, as beach property is much more expensive, but there is no truly notable cultural difference between the different parts of town. The poster likes to include a mention of a well-known band "Electric Putting Partner," which doesn't even seem to exist and really seems like someone's in-joke, as does this whole section, which includes mentions of gang activity, which is virtually non-existent throughout the beach towns here.  With my edit I also restored the "notable residents" section which was discussed here earlier, but which someone else saw fit to remove regardless of those discussions. 71.130.194.188 (talk) 09:52, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello back! It seems to me that what is needed to make this article the best it can be is finding and citing verifiable, third-party references and avoiding the use of original research. Hopefully, the person(s) posting the "East Mahattan Beach" information will join the larger discussion of whether the neighborhoods section should be eliminated entirely or whether its issues can be resolved. It seems to me that the main issue surrounds the lack of good references for those portions of the article. Geoff Who, me?  15:43, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neighborhoods:Removing-Merging-Improving the Section Discussion 

message: I've marked the notable residents section as needing references. After checking the first five or six names on the list, there isn't even a mention of Manhattan Beach in their respective articles. In fact, :Category:People from Manhattan Beach, California only has 9 names in it. This shouldn't be a phone directory list. Unless citations can be added to the names on the list, they need to be removed. --Funandtrvl (talk) 22:41, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable residents (continued)

message: At present, the introduction reads as if it were intended for real estate speculators.  It goes into too much detail about various topics, especially the property valuations. I've tried to initiate discussion of this issue with  and , but their only responses so far have been reverts.
According to Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section, the lead section of a Wikipedia article is supposed to summarize the important aspects of the topic.  The article already has sections which go into detail about the city's educational opportunities and high cost of real estate, so the supporting facts should go there.
Like most Wikipedia articles, this one is a collaboration.  If other editors feel these details belong in the introduction, I'd like to know why.  Please discuss below.—Stepheng3 (talk) 06:15, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have to agree with you 100% and your edits were proper.  as well as  ONLY has edited this page, nothing more. In addition the ONLY contributions made have been related to the "values" of the area, this to me is a WP:COI and I would support you if you care to take this to a admin board. I will do a warning to each of these users today and I suggest that you revert to [here] as that is the proper format and even a little excessive but someone needs to patrol the edits of the two users mentioned above for conflict of interest.  talk→ WPPilot   17:00, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I was hoping for some communication from the SPAs about what they were trying to accomplish with the reverts.  But if a block is the only way to get their attention, then that might be a good thing.—Stepheng3 (talk) 02:48, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  introduction 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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