Talk:List of professional sportspeople convicted of crimes

message: As you can see, there have been three discussions regarding deletion of this article. One of the primary concerns is the possibility of the scope of the article being too broad. That is why for the article to confirm to standards it is necessary to limit entries to serious crimes. While the editor may use their discretion in interpreting the meaning of the word "serious", it should certainly imply a crime that would ordinarily result in a prison sentence (note the difference between prison and jail, being incarcerated for less than a month would normally be in jail). Including every athlete to receive a conviction for driving while intoxicated or simple assault would be completely unwieldy. CitiCat ♫ 18:20, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: An important note on scope

message: I think you might have more luck of getting more contributors if you expand the categories and perhaps link to the appropriate pages.--Hourick 18:02, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Suggestion

message: The title of the article is "List of professional athletes who have been convicted of crimes," but the first sentence states felonies.  Technically, crimes would also include misdemeanors, no?  Also, the next sentence says it includes amateurs, too.  So, should the article be "List of atheletes convicted of felonies", which also, by the way, eliminates unnecessary passive voice/wordiness?  Regards, --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 04:03, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It isn't necessary to include all inclusion criteria in the title (we would have some excessively long titles that way), but you make a good point about passive voice/wordiness. I'll move to resolve that.--Chaser - T 13:55, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds good! :) Best, --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 23:15, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

text: "...being incarcerated for an extended/long period" would exclude misdemeanor incarcerations. I think whatever we do here is vague and imperfect, but limiting it in some way is a necessary evil so we don't get every athlete who's served 10 days for drunk driving like Paris Hilton or something.--Chaser - T 03:54, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We could put the DUI sentences as a category instead, but it might get overpopulated.--Hourick 23:46, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

text: The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 
The result of the discussion was to move the article. —Angr If you've written a quality article... 11:33, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Title and opening sentence contradition?

message: Making two deletions. Carlton Dotson was never a professional. And while profession wrestling is athletic, sportspeople refers to people who are paid for competitions, which wrestling is not, so I'm removing Larry Pfohl and that section. Reading the deletion discussions at the top of this page shows that the scope must be limited to make this page meaningful. CitiCat ♫ 12:54, May 4, 2009 (UTC)
:I question the Larry Pfohl bit, the reason why is because wrestling (especially WWE) is listed on a number of sport related lists, including list of sports people who have died during their career, plus that removal is going to be open to debate, especially those who are so passionately pro-WWE. Donnie Park (talk) 18:08, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Being passionately pro-WWE is a good reason to not be part of the discussion, as it introduces bias into articles. I would suggest creating a "list of professonal wrestlers who have been convicted of crimes" article. CitiCat ♫ 18:05, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: If there's no further discussion I'd like to go ahead and remove Pfohl again. The same arguments remain - Pfohl is (was) not a professional sportsman, and inclusion of wrestlers would open the article to having an unmanageable scope. CitiCat ♫ 16:41, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Carlton Dotson and Larry Pfohl

message: * Travis Henry
* Cadillac Anderson
* Jody Morris
An probably a whole bunch of people in :Category:Sports controversies and its subcats. MickMacNee (talk) 20:47, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  List ommissions 

message: The history of the current discussion is in the above section and at last AfD which just recently closed as no consensus. Basically at this point we are rehashing the same arguments and need outside input to provide some guidance. On the one hand some (not necessarily all) editors acknowledge that the current scope of the article is too broad, but on the other hand there has been no progress in drawing a line on what to include and exclude without ending up with arbitrary rules. Is there a better way of doing this or are the current inclusion criteria fine as they are? Please evaluate the suggestions given above as well, for changing the scope and/or splitting the list vs. maintaining the status quo. Thanks. ZUNAID●FOREVER 18:15, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Without "arbitrary rules" there is no way to prevent this discussion recurring. Currently, a number of people on the list certainly should be considered as "trivia" (heck -- "breach of the peace"?)  In order to keep it to people who reasonably might be considered to have had a major conviction, I would suggest a cut-off of 5 years on sentences.  Delete all the ones below that.  And a person who has been fined should not be in the same group as a murderer, for sure. Collect (talk) 19:31, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  That's far too long, on an international scale - it might make sense for US sentencing, but that would remove almost all the UK soccer players from the list. It would even remove the 1964 British betting scandal from the list, a case so celebrated it has its own article. Andy Dingley (talk) 21:50, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: What about 5 years (US) and 2 years (rest of world) then?  Collect (talk) 21:56, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: How about if we only allow those who are active (not retired) listed. Donnie Park (talk) 13:24, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think that would make any sense - part of the purpose of the subject is what happens to athletes after they retire (fall from the spotlight, so to speak). A problem is that the same crime can get two vastly different sentences depending on where and when it is committed. I think a one year limit would be fine. CitiCat ♫ 18:50, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: RfC

message: As with the removal of René Higuita for failing to meet the article's scope, what about Junior Johnson, his conviction was pardoned, at least by President Reagan, so isn't that the same thing. So I am going to assume that being pardoned by the head of state will get you a mention on this list and getting it quashed after appeal won't. Donnie Park (talk) 13:08, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  René Higuita 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: 150 years? Really? 108.71.123.163 (talk) 18:16, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: What part are you having trouble understanding? - SummerPhDv2.0 19:29, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: What?

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Why are both of these players not on the list for American football? Both have been convicted of serious felonies. IEditThingsForYou (talk) 13:10, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tyreek Hill and Frank Clark 

message: There's a glaring omission in these lists: the year of each crime! Readers have absolutely no idea when they happened when browsing the listings, which is very frustrating. A column with the year each crime was committed should be added to all the tables. The best place for it would be the second column, right after the person's name. 2605:A000:FFC0:D8:D9CE:6ADE:B23E:6 (talk) 15:43, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Not a bad idea, in fact, year of offense, year convicted, year released, might not be a bad idea. Huge amount of work, though. CitiCat ♫ 04:08, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Year crimes happened? 

message: In the ongoing effort to make the scope of the article very clear, we seem to have run into yet another ambiguity with the article definition. The statement "It comprises both professionals and those amateurs who have competed at the highest levels." was designed to allow for sports that do not have professionals (such as many Olympic sports), and based on previous discussions the statement was meant to infer an athlete who is at the highest level of their sport, whether that highest level be professional or amateur. However, it could read to mean "in each sport, professionals, and also amateurs at the highest level". Since including amateurs of any and every sport would expand the scope uncontrollably, I don't think the second definition would be reasonable. Any thoughts on a clearer opening statement? If necessary amateurs could be eliminated entirely. CitiCat ♫ 16:55, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Another clarification

message: I propose that the section Baseball be split into a separate page called List of professional baseball players convicted of crimes. This section is certainly large enough to make its own page (and I've got several more articles bookmarked so as to expand it) and this article is already above the size at which it should "almost certainly should be divided" per Wikipedia:SIZESPLIT. I'm sure several of these sections could be big enough to become their own standalone articles if given a bit more attention. My only concern, however, is whether these sections would be notable enough as standalone articles. Dennis C. Abrams (talk) 23:39, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: This article has been controversial in whether it is a valid intersection of categories. As such it has previously been agreed on to limit the article to crimes resulting in prison sentences and to only include major league level players. As such I have deleted a number of entires. CitiCat ♫ 04:23, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Splitting proposal