Talk:Arda (Tolkien)

message: I removed the line about Morgoth being slain during the Dagor Dagorath. That belonged to an old version of the myths (the Second Prophecy of Mandos) that was abandoned by Tolkien, and thus removed from The Silmarillion. There's nothing specific said about Dagor Dagorath in the final version of the legends, only that Morgoth would return and there would be a great battle.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.22.52.196 (talk) 19:35, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Arda Healed

message: Isn't Arda in inspiration essentially the same as the character Erda (apparently conflated with Urðr/Wyrd) from Wagner's Ring?
Nuttyskin (talk) 15:59, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Erda?

message: According to the Middle-earth article, Arda is an Elvish-language term. Pardon my ignorance, but is it Quenya or Sindarin? Or indeed both? -- Oliver P. 00:54 May 8, 2003 (UTC)
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"Noncanon names" - it's rather POV, as the "canon" Silmarillion is what Christopher Tolkien chose to include. I think "Round World version" would be the better header name... Ausir 23:25, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Does the term Romenor appear in Tolkien's writing? I can't find it. This looks like another one of the roleplaying terms to me, and thus non-canon. Apologies in advance if it is an actual JRRT term (I'd appreciate a pointer to where the term can be found!). — Jor (Talk) 23:37, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: No idea. It might be a MERP name, like Morenor. Ausir 23:38, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I suspect it is, as the only Googles for it are MERP material and Wikipedia copies. I don't have the index volume for the HoME series yet, but the name does not appear in the indices for IX–XII (where it would if it were part of the "Round World" bit), or in IV (Ambarkanta). — Jor (Talk) 23:43, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Arda (terminology) 

message: You are all CRAZY, Ared is a totally different Universe  (Ea stupid) and besides where is Valinor?
Do you see ANY Elves ANY were on Earth?!!!!!!!!!!!!, and if they are wraiths woundn't they're voices be heard istead of  just phiscally fading?
Arda was intended to be the Earth in a mythological past.  When Arda was made round Valinor was removed from the sphere and made accessible only to the elves by supernatural means.  (I don't know if John Tolkien intended it to be placed on an other planet or in an other dimension.)  Please note that magic – which is a part of the workings of Arda – does not exist in the real world.  Also, the end of an age and the start of a new one is marked by world-wide disasters profoundly changing geography.  This form of catastrophism was discredited in the mid-20th century when the books where written.  For you in may be easier to think of Arda as a fictional universe amongst many others.
2009-07-29  Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
Correct me if i am wrong but didnt tolkien discard the middle earth as early earth history idea?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.183.214.150 (talk) 00:58, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Arda is in Ea... what are you thinking!  

message: I belive that arda isn't earth for three resons,
1.The idea was an idea and not necicerally published.
2.It would take the feeling of "escape" and "sancturary" away from the stories.
3.(After much study) he based it off the sagas of the norse cultiure.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.222.186.6 (talk) 01:23, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  juggled Ideas 

message: "specifically the Afrikaans "Aarde" which has equivalent pronunciation"
My guess is that the Afrikaans Aarde is pronounced something like [ɑːɹdə], while the Quenya Arda is [arda]/[ɑrdɑ], which is not equivalent, although the common pronunciation by native English-speakers is [ɑːdə] or [ɑːɹdə]. --Oscararon (talk) 18:28, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation of Arda 

message: Could someone upload a map here? The best one I found was: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/maps/arda3.gif.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mjbauer95 (talk • contribs) 22:55, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Map? 

message: It is my understanding that Arda "evolved" so-to-speak into our modern planet. I have understood it as these continental evoulutions: Middle-earth = Eurasia (Eregion = Europe, Rhûn? = Asia,). Hither lands = Africa. Dark Land = Antarctica? Oceania?. Hildórien = Americas. As well as some regional evolutions that could be seen as explanatory: Gondor = Spain and portugal. Arnor = France, western Germany and Switzerland, Netherlands, and Belgium (with the exception of The Shire and the surrounding areas becoming England). Forodwaith = Scandinavia, and Denmark?. Mordor = everything south of: Italy?, Austria, Hungary?, southern Romainia and sections of Greece, to Africa. Mirkwood, Rhovanion and Rohan = everything east of Eastern Germany, Austria and Italy, to Poland, and Slovakia. Oceanical similarities are: Belegaer = Atlantic. East sea = Indian Ocean to roughly South China Sea. Unnamed ocean east of Hildórien (correct me if i'm wrong) = pacific. Geographical: Misty mountains =  ? . White mountains = Alps. Blue mountains = Scottish Grampians?. Ash and Shadowy Mountains = (that mountain range in Romania and Slovakia(please help here)). Cities: Minas tirith = Bratislava, Slovakia. Barad-Dur = Nyregyihaza, Hungary. Hobbitton = Cambridge, United  Kingdom. There you go, that took a lot of brainpower and research.Please notify me of any complications. (I apologize if my signature is wrong)(I also apologize if I offended anyone in any way I improperly spelled or gramatified a location) Exoworlder (talk) 03:19, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Evolution" To Earth 

message: "It is this world from which are formed the hröa of the Children of Ilúvatar, and therefore it is at times a cruel and evil world with plagues, extreme colds, heat, and other concepts which do not exist in Arda Unmarred."
This seems to be a misplaced clause; "and therefore" various evils should refer to Melkor's influence as the cause of the evils, not to the formation of the Children of Iluvatar's bodies!
"Arda Marred also broke the design of Elvish immortality: in Arda Marred Elves slowly fade, until at last they are naught but wraiths. Only in Valinor was this fading delayed, which is one reason all Elves had no choice but to go to Valinor in the end."
I do not believe this is correct. It's always at least implied that some Elves stayed and did 'fade'. They're not visible by the time historical times come around, their bodies have become 'subtle' and invisible (usually), but they're still present and on rare occasions show themselves to certain Men (leading, implicitly, to our own legends of elves and such). This is discussed in detail in "Morgoth's Ring" (HoME volume X).Vultur (talk) 05:25, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Arda Marred issues

message: *Arda= River in Bulgaria,( with a small village on it) Arda_%28Maritsa%29
*Arda/Artha in avest. derived from sanskr. means right, truthful, strait [
*Udun- slavic languages means Bottom, darkness U-in Dun-Дъно Bottom http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%B4%D1%8A%D0%BD%D0%BE
*Rohan,= Roloxan- Rusians,Skytians, horse peoples worshiping the horses armed with spears.
*Vala/r = slavic Veela,(Вила writeen also Veila- root valaga = slavic languages= river, this root formed river Volga) celestial beings, called Angels and "Arangels" ( the mistake is correct) singing beautiful songs armed with bows.http://www.bulgarian-folklore.com/articles.php?article_id=214
*Boro-mir= "Fighter (for) peace/ also mir means man in sanskr. and avest. that forms all -mir endings" Bor- fight o- for mir- peace http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B1%D0%B0
*Talkien Elves= Slavic samodivas, Veelas, with bows high beings. Veelas are living in mountain ranges, have male brothers who fights for them. Samodivas live near waterfals and rivers they dance in a ring like meadows clothed with white dress and green belts "dressed in shadow like skirts"
*Elf= all etymology suggest, bright, white, celestial beings.[]
* Now the question is did the Nordic savage people who invened the iron 900 years after the rest of the world were inspired by the "southeast European myths" or the southeasterns ( incl. greeks,thracians,skythians, sarmatians,dacians, kimvris,armenians, hititans, persians) were insired by the nordic savages? Those who answer that question will paint the map of Arda.
* I said "Talkien elves" because his elves has nothing to do with high german elves f grimm brothers, or with nordic elves who are evil spirits living in tombs.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nix1129 (talk • contribs) 07:05, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Great. Now all you have to do is provide sources for your insane pro-Bulgarian ramblings and we can start editing the articles. GimliDotNet (Speak to me,Stuff I've done)  07:11, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

text: I suggest you read WP:FORUM. These pages are not here for you to discuss your POV.  GimliDotNet (Speak to me,Stuff I've done)  20:14, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Arda 

message: This article equates "the South" of Middle-earth with the "Hither Lands" (quote from the article: "To the south were the Hither Lands including Harad") but I don't think this is correct. In the Silmarillion, the term "Hither Lands" seems to signify all of Middle-earth (with the connotation "the lands east of the sea, the lands that are not Aman"), e.g.: 
"In time the hosts of the Vanyar and the Noldor came to the last western shores of the Hither Lands. In the north these shores, in the ancient days after the Battle of the Powers, bent ever westward, until in the northernmost parts of Arda only a narrow sea divided Aman, upon which Valinor was built, from the Hither Lands; but this narrow sea was filled with grinding ice, because of the violence of the frosts of Melkor. [...] The kinsfolk and friends of Elwë Singollo also remained in the Hither Lands" Etc. etc.
(J. R. R. Tolkien: The Silmarillion, Of Eldamar and the Princes of the Eldalië)
92.201.253.110 (talk) 21:25, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Hither Lands

message: I propose that Belegaer be moved here. It is a stub article with only one reference, and much of its substance overlaps with this article.--Jack Upland (talk) 09:04, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal (Belegaer) 

message: Arda may be notable (it has an entry in Tolkien Encyclopedia). But its history is unlikely to warrant a stand-alone article. I suggest merging that article here. Fictional history of a minor fictional entity is unlikely to be notable.  --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 07:09, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think it is fully warranted, . The statement that Middle-earth is a continent and Arda is the Earth seems to be original research. See Talk:Middle-earth. In any case, "Middle-earth" is the common name for Tolkien's world. And little or none of his fiction is set in other parts of Arda (if in fact other parts exist). However, I'm not sure how to tackle this. There is clear duplication, but how to merge?--Jack Upland (talk) 19:19, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Is this still a subject of discussion, given that you're updating the entry above, Jack Upland? "Arda (Tolkien)" is now a redirect to Cosmology_of_Tolkien's_legendarium#Arda. As for the terms used, Arda is defined in the Index of The Silmarillion p317 as "'The Realm', name of the Earth as the Kingdom of Manwe." while Middle-earth is defined on p341 as "The lands to the east of the Great Sea", so there is no WP:OR there. The maps in The Lord of the Rings are, by the way, labelled "The West of Middle-earth at the End of the Third Age", and they show the western part of a continent, which is consistent with the definitions just quoted. As for "other parts", yes, there was Numenor, a large island or small continent; and Aman, a continent and home to Valinor; Numenor was destroyed and Aman was physically removed from Arda at the end of the Second Age. Valinor is discussed at length in The Silmarillion. So, in the Second Age, Aman + Numenor + Middle-earth were the lands of Arda; in the Third Age, Middle-earth was, as far as we are told, alone on Arda. The historical and cosmological aspects are, at least, different in character; overlap might be better addressed by careful editing. Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:12, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge from [[History of Arda]]