Talk:Messianic Judaism/Archive 1

message: Folks, "Messianic Judaism" refers invariably to Christian groups. There may be dozens of other Jewish groups following a different Messiah; but they are not _ever_ called "Messianic Judaism".  The religion of the non-Christian groups is called "Judaism", and they are called "messianists", or "followers of ...".  There have been dozens of messianist Jewish movements.  Where are ANY of them called "Messianic Judaism", other than these modern Christian groups, except (for the moment) on Wikipedia?  Certainly, we can mention the other messianic groups; but the normative use of the term is not that generalized reference.  It has a more specific reference. Mkmcconn 20:45, 25 Sep 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Messianism]]

message: I removed the bit about Al Mohler. As insidious as it may or may not be, it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Messianic Jews consider themselves adherents of Judaism, who accept Jesus as the Messiah. Mohler was talking about converting Jews to Christianity, not to Messianic Judaism--a distinction even many Messianic Jews would make. Put it in an article about Missionary efforts to the Jews, if you want (personally, I don't think it makes the cut), but this isn't the place for it. Danny 14:14, 19 Oct 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, you make that assertion, but what is the actual story about the modern Messianic Judaism? When did it appear and under what circumstances? Fred Bauder 13:51, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As far as them being Christians, mighty strange Christians if they follow Jewish practices. That is a major rejection of some central Christian doctrines which mandate abandonment of traditional practices or at least discourage them. Fred Bauder 13:51, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I used to work at a resort. I will never forget our first kosher customers who made us clean all of our utensils and dishes out of the cabin, then brought in their two sets. Very different energy. Fred Bauder 13:51, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Al Mohler

message: "most Jews regard them as Christians who have merely adopted the outward and cultural trappings of Judaism". Almost certainly not the case. Almost all Messianic Jews were Jews before they were Messianic, (there being no incentive for a Christian who is not ethnically Jewish to adopt Jewish customs or practice). I'm going to replace it with something which is more correct and I hope acceptable. DJ Clayworth 22:10, 29 Oct 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: The intention of the sentence appears to be that, Messianic Judaism is not considered Jewish by any branch of Judaism (and that is true).  "Racial" jewishness is not a factor, in this judgment (there are Buddhists of Jewish ancestry, too. But, Buddhism has nothing to do with Jewishness).  Exactly so - in my irrelevant opinion, unjustly - Christianity is judged by all branches of Judaism to have nothing to do with Jewishness, either, except a long ago and now expired status as a Jewish 'sect'.  On the other issue, it is not true that Christianity + Jewish practice is unattractive to some, or even many, Gentile Christians. Mkmcconn 01:50, 30 Oct 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: Many Israelis are atheistic by religion but not discounted as Jews.  This is because Jewishness is considered an ethnic identity.  Ergo, it is likewise illogical to deny that people who are Christians by religion but have Jewish ethnicity are Jews.138.130.201.204 04:30, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You've missed the point; Jews can practice Buddhism and Hinduism too, and many do; but that doesn't turn Buddhism and Hinduism into Judaism. Jayjg (talk) 04:43, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

text: Actually, it's quite the opposite.  Jewish law is very clear that a Jew who converts to another faith is still a Jew (though sinning), and does not require conversion when returning to Judaism. Jayjg (talk) 20:48, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

text: They would have to renounce worship of Jesus before being considered part of the community again, and eligible for various honours (e.g. being called up to the Torah, buried in a Jewish cemetary).  They would always be considered Jews. Jayjg (talk) 22:31, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Not Judaism but Jews Nonetheless

message: It seems like such an odd omission to leave out any mention in the first two paragraphs of Ebionites or Nazarenes, that the omission ( purposeful?) should be noted and explained. Wetman 07:28, 17 Feb 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Nazarenes & Ebionites

message: I have changed the part about Reconstructionism accepting the Messianic movement as a valid form of Judaism.  That is incorrect.  The Reconstructionist school does not accept the Messianic movement, any more than Orthodox Judaism does.  A few voices within Reconstructionism accept it - but that's a far cry from saying that Reconstructionism as a whole does.  Davidcannon 22:25, 19 Feb 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Humanistic Judaism