Talk:Wilhelm Furtwängler

message: What's "Er furtwänglere" mean? "He is Furtwangler-esque"? Help a uni-lingual brother out. -- orthogonal 05:27, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Er furtwänglere

message: Before charging Furtwängler with Nazism (once again - how original), maybe we could start by writing an article that does not contain blatant mistakes. 
The sentence "Later he became music director of the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra, the Salzburg Festival and the Bayreuth Festival, which was regarded as the greatest post a conductor could hold in Germany at the time" is inaccurate to say the least.
The syntax ("which was regarded as the greatest post...") suggests that there is or used to be a single directorship of all three (which wowuld also mean that Vienna and Salzburg are in Germany).
What is more, and much worse, not only isn't there a music directorship of the three, but there isn't a music directorship of ANY of them. 
The Vienna Philharmonic does not have a music director. It has NEVER had one. Furtwängler was in charge of three concert seasons in a row but never of the orchestra in itself.
 
The Bayreuth Festival does not have a music director either. A few conductors have been described as "advisers" or "chief advisers," which is different.
The Salzburg Festival does not have a music director either.
I suppose crammming so much nonsense into one sentence is some sort of feat, even by Wikipedia standards.
Furtwängler was not a politician, ha was not a Nazi leader, neither was he the director of a concentration camp. He was a musician. Yet the section about Nazism is twice as long as the section about music. And although the section about Nazism is so long, it never states explicitly that Furtwängler was never a member of the Nazi Party. S.Camus 20:20, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, write more material about him (that doesn't involve the Nazis) and add that he was never a member (provided that all such material is referenced, NPOV, etc.).  Grover cleveland 15:27, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inaccuracies 

message: Why all the emphasis on Nazism in this article? Is it relevent? After all the man was a conductor and musician, not a politican. Why not concentrate on his musical achievements which are to my mind far more important. Wallie 20:19, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that the article does focuis on his music, but this is an article on his life, important parts of which coincided with the Nazi regime. If there is more material about his music that you've got sources for then it'd be great if you could add it. Thanks, -Willmcw 23:21, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Nazism

message: 69.106.4.37 - thanks for adding more labels for recommended recordings.  Can I ask why you deleted all mention of Classica d'Oro?  I haven't heard the transfers myself, but some people at rec.music.classical.recordings have said they're OK, and they're currently available from arkivmusic.com
*Classical d'Oro, Gramofono 2000, Iron Needle, and many other Italian labels have been accused for pirating the work of more reknown labels such as Music & Arts or Pearl. Clearly, one cannot endorse labels that are the target of such criticism, let alone acknowledge their "work."--Seaface 13:26, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe you personally don't like them, but I'm not sure why that should prevent other people from finding out about them.  Grover cleveland 14:22, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: To start out with, I didn't erase that section. I merely answered the question on this page. Actually, Music & Arts has issued a statement regarding such records (http://www.musicandarts.com/shame.html). As you can see in the statement, familiar names such as Mark Obert-Thorn have asserted that Grammofono 2000 has pilfered work he had done with Pearl. I'm sure that the person who did edit such labels out was aware of this. --Seaface 13:07, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why are we recommending recordings at all? We aren't critics. If there were some criteria we followed, such as "recordings listed by the subject as his favorites" or "Award winning recordings" then that'd be OK. But "Recordings admired by Wikipedia editors" is not a valid criteria.  ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 21:23, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. The French Furtwangler Society has an excellent list of recommended recordings (http://www.furtwangler.net/bestchoice.html). I'm a little hesitant to make the edits myself since I'm fresh to the practice. --Seaface 13:07, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Recommended Recordings

message: The claim is made in the text that Furtwängler wiped his hand after shaking Hitler's hands. This misconception probably comes from the final clip in the movie Taking Sides by Istvan Szabo. It can be seen on youtube.com. However, this, to me,  does not look like Adolf Hitler. The man is much too lean and youthful. Looks more like Joseph Goebbels to me. Sunwutzu 08:11, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Furtwängler wiping hands after shaking "Hitler's" 

message: WP:Good articles must meet certain quality standards and have passed through the Good Article nomination process. Then they may be listed as Good articles. I see no GA nomination or assessment here.--DO11.10 23:47, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: About change from GA-B class

message: :Image:FurtwanglerBeethoven.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 19:27, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:FurtwanglerBeethoven.jpg

message: :Image:Furtwangler Bruckner 5 intro.ogg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 20:58, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Furtwangler Bruckner 5 intro.ogg

message: I've reviewed this article as part of the Composers project review of its B-class articles.  This article is B-class, but could use some attention.  Read my detailed review on the comments page.  Feel free to leave questions or comments about the review here or on my talk page. Magic♪piano 21:46, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Composers project review

message: The writer of this section uses links to youtube videos to source personal observations about the conducting.  
Also, omits the important stuff--how the music SOUNDS!  Furtwangler was known for very slow, gradual crecendos, appropriate for mature wagner, and for extreme drama.  He was not a crisp gritty type like Keilberth or Bohm.  But these too are personal observations.  Anyway I think the whole section on conducting style should be axed or better-sourced. SingingZombie (talk) 02:39, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that whole paragraph consisted of original opinions, and for references the author linked to online videos of F's conducting!  Totally inappropriate for wiki.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.237.243.185 (talk) 02:08, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Conducting style section

message: The biography mentions the subject as being regarded under a shadow, but says nothing else about this.  This ought to be clarified. 24.17.218.38 (talk) 22:24, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Biography 

message: I am not very happy with the notice about too many quotations. Some of these long quotations are from important witnesses to the truth of whatever issue they are writing about. This article covers topics of prime importance (such as Furtwängler's relations with Nazis and with Jews). Surely it is wrong for some anonymous and humble Wikipedia editor to paraphrase the words of: Furtwangler himself, Geissmar (who worked with him for 20 years), Friedelind Wagner, Goebbels, Hugo Strelitzer, Yehudi Menuhin, Neville Cardus and Henry Lewis? What these distinguished people actually wrote should be cornerstones of the article. They should not be filtered by some editor. No judge would allow that in court. No theatre director would paraphrase Shakespeare in a performance for grownups. (Cutting is another matter but it requires a lot of skill and risks POV.) The Wikipedia reader deserves the same direct level of information on important topics as the jury and the theatre-goer.
In the "Notable Recordings" section I think the issue is less clearcut because a critic's opinion of an individual recording is much less important than the moral worth and the artistic quality of Furtwangler himself. So I don't know.
Any other views?
Budhen (talk) 15:23, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with you. Anyway I want to add more text in the future to the end of the biography and to the section "career". The best solution would be to move all the quotations in the "Notable Recordings" section to footnotes!  This is what I did for the article on Furtwängler in French. I am currently very busy with my job, therefore I do not have much time. If you want to start...  Cheers--Gatti fabien1 (talk) 05:10, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too many quotations? 

message: Substituted at 10:34, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: Although the general public probably does not agree, he considered himself a composer who conducted, rather than the reverse.  Critical opinion on his output is fairly polarized - the lede needs to mention his composing endeavors.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.111.2.50 (talk) 03:04, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lede needs to be fleshed out on his composing career 

message: Writing as a lifelong classical music listener and onetime DJ, I find this article - about such a difficult and intriguing subject - unusually articulate and thought-provoking. If anything about it is 'not encyclopedic' then so much the worse for that tradition. The quotes I see today are perfectly complementary and I wouldn't remove a word. The pains taken to depict this man's situation are much appreciated. Say what you will about his conducting style (this is not the place), this is one of WP's best articles concerning the role and significance of classical music today, and of its diverse interpreters. Twang (talk) 23:45, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bravo