Talk:Alpha Phi Alpha/Archive 1

message: --220.238.70.149 10:43, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: When I was at Cornell (mid-90s), a friend of mine who was in this fraternity told me that there were more white guys in traditionally black fraternities than there were black guys in the ostensibly non-racially based frats, which I found interesting. --Jfruh 02:30, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Do they Allow White People? 

message: Can we change the name of this article to Alpha Phi Alpha?  It will match the other names of the majority of National Pan-Hellenic Council member organizations. Ccson 15:35, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Name Change

message: This "anti-hazing" website on Tripod (which allows ANYONE to set up a webpage) is used as an official source by user Bobbydoop (who has a controversial history of editing articles) for the statement that Alpha Phi Alpha is the "second oldest Greek-letter organization for African American men" when that website produces no verifiable, primary sources for that statement. The official website for the fraternity states, "Alpha Phi Alpha, the first intercollegiate Greek-letter fraternity established for African-Americans, was founded at Cornell University in Ithaca, New York."Akhenaton06 03:03, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: This guy is a vandal and is using multiple accounts to attack many different pages. Just revert his edits. Tfine80 03:09, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Second oldest Greek-letter organization for African American men" 

message: Once again, user Bobbydoop is continuing to use a Tripod article (that ANYONE can set up) as a verifiable source about hazing within the fraternity; that section of the article is also very biased. I have included the fraternity's official anti-hazing statement instead but Bobbydoop continues to use the "anti-hazing" website as a verifiable source when it does not cite verifiable, primary sources. What this guy is doing amounts to vandalism.Akhenaton06 03:07, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hazing 

message: bobbydoop's original reference indicates that the first college fraternity for african american men was established in 1906, yet he keeps referring to ALpha Phi Alpha as the second oldest fraternity.  this page should reflect what the fraternity official website indicates since it should be considered the leading authority on it's own history and it concurs with what on the link that bobbydoop has listed as a reference.
Can we get a Wikipedia editor to come in settle this so the page doesn't keep changing? Ccson 04:10, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: First or Second

message: Bobbydoop, why do you consider the state that Alpha Phi Alpha is the first collegiate college fraternity to be incorrect?  It's in the reference that you quote and this is synonomous with the Alpha official website.
Sigma Pi Phi has college chapters and was founded before A PHI A.  A PHI A isn't just college, they take honorary's , graduate,  and non college individuals.  thus they aren't purely inter collegiate.   Bobbydoop 04:24, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Let's resolve this

message: Alpha Phi Alpha - Sigma Pi Phi. This individual is a member of Alpha Phi Alpha. Alpha Phi Alpha was founded in 1906.  The fraternity call is 06. That is where Akhenaton06 gets the 06  in his name.    Alpha Phi Alpha many times attempts to make the dubious claim that they are in fact the first African American Fraternity http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/Nov05/Alpha.Phi.Alpha.td.html,  http://www.tlu.edu/student_life/activities/organizations/greek.html, http://www.stillman.edu/stillman/GreekOrg/apa.html.  This is quite wide spread
There are members of Sigma Pi Phi who are members of Alpha Phi Alpha as well i.e. Martin Luther King   .    Akhenaton06 is attempting to continue on the dubious type claim that Alpha Phi Alpha is the first black fraternity.  Most people reading it would simply assume that that Alpha Phi Alpha is the first black fraternity, assuming that all fraternities ignoring the inter collegiate part.
 I have provided 5 websites
  which are
1)  http://www.nndb.com/org/244/000053085/ 
2) http://www.gentsclub.org/sigma_pi_phi.htm, 
3)http://www.msstate.edu/org/nphc/to%2015%20faq.htm 
4) http://alphaphialpha.truman.edu/AboutGreeks.htm
5) http://www.unityfirst.com/pressreleaseboule.htm
Which all agree that the founding of Sigma Pi Phi is in 1904, 2 years before that of Alpha Phi Alpha. At least 3 of them specifically state that Sigma Pi Phi is the first Black fraternity of any kind nationwide. Wikipedia is a free encyclopedia for the promotion of the truth.  By allowing a continued effort to rail road rather then spread knowledge simply undermines the integrity of Wikipedia.
I propose since the above individuals aren't protesting the validity of the information of the founding of Sigma Pi Phi, that a compromise be made.  Where the wording would be:
Sigma Pi Phi is the first fraternity founded by and for African American's nationwide (1904).  Alpha Phi Alpha is the first fraternity founded by African Americans at a college (1906).
 This would allow for a clear understanding by any and all readers as well as a balance.
this seems to be a fair compromise.  can a agreement be made?  152.163.100.13 13:45, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Who, above is Charles H. Wesley and in The History of Alpha Phi Alpha, the first sentence on Page V entitled "Preface to the First Edition", is as follows:
 In preparing this book the author has endeavored to present in readable form the main facts about the history of the oldest Greek letter fraternity organized originally for black college men. .
Sigma Pi Phi is a fraternity, however; they are commonly referred to as the Boulé. Ccson 17:16, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proof 

message: Anyone can create any information and state it as fact.  You and I both know that Sigma Pi Phi is the first black fraternity of any kind founded and still surviving in the United states.  The Wikipedia page allows for links to be made and is not owned by Alpha Phi Alpha.  It is an indendent page.   Each fraternity article should present a whole story.  Regardless of whether or not Alpha Phi Alpha had a knowledge of another black greek organization doesnt take away from the fact that one existed.  Thus this information should either be what the compromise states or should be kept as 
Alpha Phi Alpha is the second oldest surviving black greek letter organization.    
This is a stated fact and has been verified numerous times.  205.188.116.65 17:47, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  agreement 

message: Ccson can edit the changes that he asked for.  Bonaparte  talk 17:08, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I made the changes you approved and they were summarily reversed within 5 minutes.  no one else is following the rules of getting permission to add or delete information.  What can be done to restore the changes I implemented. I don't want to revert, because the revert war will start again. the sentence I was approved to add concerning douglass say he was initiated posthumously, plust I added a link to wiktionary, that in of it says he had no knowledge. anything else is unnecessary language. Bonaparte, can you revert the page so that everyone will know this is ground zero version and all other edits must come through you.  The user below has already the sentence requested before you approved it.Ccson 18:42, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Requesting that the pictures be removed of the jewels and that it be duly noted that Mr. Douglas never approved of his membership in such an organization.  64.12.116.13 18:37, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Edit approved

message: Is there any proof behind the existence of chapters in Viet nam and South Korea? IF not i move for a motion to delete.  ChinaTownrules 17:25, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Vietnam and South Korea

message: The cabal mediator determined during the original discussion that this text and reference was reliable and was supposed to have been deleted before.  Here is bonapartes text printed again: I read one more time all and still think that you should let the compromise offered by Ccson. The links that were given as sources are not that reliable, and the text is almost copy paste. Bonaparte talk 17:58, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Hazing

message: You see that you are reaching very fast the compromise. One week edit pause. Any other future edit will be here posted and I will watch it first. See you in one week. Bonaparte  talk 07:02, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: one week edit pause 

message: Does this article still need mediators from the Mediation Cabal? Olorin28 03:12, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There's no real issue here. You have one user who has used multiple sockpuppets and is obsessed with including misleading information and attacks about hazing and homosexuals in the article. There are other users who have experience with the subject but cannot understand or deal with this user's persistance. He has also been blocked several times and there are similar problems at remove St. John's University, New York, Bronx High School of Science, Stuyvesant High School, Townsend Harris High School. I think all of these pages should be semi-protected. Tfine80 04:41, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mediation 

message: This article is presented a bit breathlessly, and is currently lacking in encyclopedic tone.  For example, from the lead paragraph:
:In 2006, the fraternity entered a Centennial Era – A Period of preparation and mobilization as it celebrates a century of service. Thurgood Marshall, Whitney Young, Jesse Owens and Paul Robeson are among the countless Alpha men who have dedicated their lives to the fraternity’s motto--manly deeds, scholarship, and love for all mankind.
This would be better stated as something like:
:Alpha Phi Alpha has declared 2006 the begining of the "Centennial Era" to celebrate its 100th anniversary.[cite1]  Among its alumni are Thurgood Marshall[cite2], Whitney Young[cite3], Jesse Owens[cite4] and Paul Robeson.[cite5] 
The first states opinon as fact, e.g. It says that the Centennial Era is a period of preparation and mobilization.  It also uses some serious hyperbole, e.g. Are the alumni literally countless?  There are quite a few instances in the article of similar stylistic mistakes.
brenneman{L}  23:55, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead paragraph and tone 

message: You describe the Alpha Phi Alpha crest's symbol as:
Sphinx, Pharaoh and Ape....
Where did you get "Ape" from?? 
--Spartan-1 10:55, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alpha Phi Alpha Crest 

message: Hi all - I have a strong objection to the wording of "...founded by blacks." It sounds soooo crude, not just in the racial sense, but as if it is talking about paints or crayons. You must realize that this article will be viewed on July 25 by a worldwide audience who are not aware of American life or mannerisms. This Fire Burns Always  13:24, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So you must emphasize the "people" by referring to them as African Americans or at the very least, black students. This Fire Burns Always  13:25, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Blacks" 

message: I did a little digging and apparently "ape" is a legitimate symbol of the fraternity, but at first glance, it looked to me like racist vandalism. Seems like an explanation of the symbol in the article would be helpful. Katr67 19:56, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Symbols