Talk:Adal Sultanate

message: Why was the previous map removed 92.0.101.255 (talk) 14:03, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Map 

message: @User:‎CqHydra   The abundance of references indicate the capital was in the Harar plateau in eastern Ethiopia, it was not in northern Somalia. Do not alter the wording in the article the references specifically states Harar plateau not Sahil or Siyara  Here is a list of references on its origin being the Harar plateau aside from whats already in the article:
"Failing to check ethiopian power, the sultans of ifat moved eastward to the region of the harar plateau where they founded the new kingdom of Adal" p.77 
"Later in the fourteenth century, the most militant leaders of Islam in the Horn of
Africa moved further east and established the kingdom of Adal in the Harar plateau" p.100 
"However, it could possibly refer to al-ʿAdal, ruled by the
Walāsmaʿ dynasty, which was based in Harär after the 14th century," p.81 
"the latter part of the 14th century, Adal became the leading Muslim principality in the south-eastern areas, with its capital Harar as the significant Islamic centre for the whole region" p.57 
"In the east, the Muslims were led by Adal, Yifat's militant successor. Located around Harer," p.16 
"Adal, Ifat's militant successor. Located in the semidesert Harer region, Adal" p.100 
"Yifat was eventually replaced by a new paramount Muslim emirate in the eastern highlands, Adal, with harar as its center." p.179 
"Adal, historic Islāmic state of eastern Africa, in the Danakil-Somali region southwest of the Gulf of Aden, with its capital at Harer (now in Ethiopia). Its rivalry with Christian Ethiopia began in the 14th century with minor border raids and skirmishes." 
"his sons escaped and returned to the harari plateau, assumed the title of Sultans of Adal" p.27 
"But the fourteenth-century rise of a Walasma dynasty in the Harar region, led by large numbers of people who were clearly of Ifat origin" p.150 
"It is important to note in this connection that the ancient walled city of Harar and its environs, where Harari and Argobba are now spoken were precisely the new political centres estabslihed by the Muslim Walasma princes exiled from Ifat" p.427 
"eventually established the sultanate of adal in the highland districts around present-day Harar" p.64 
"Sa’ad ad-dīn et le royaume chrétien, le pouvoir s’installa dans une zone plus orientale,l’« ‘Adal », dans l’actuel région administrative du East-Harargue, entre la ville de Harar et la frontière somalienne. Ce déplacement du centre du pouvoir a probablement eu lieu sous le règne du fils de Sa’ad ad-dīn, Sabr ad-dīn, qui régna selon l’Histoire des Walasma’ entre l’année 1415 et l’année 1421-22" p.145  Magherbin (talk) 17:27, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: @CqHydra The source you cited by IM Lewis says that Zeila was a capital of an "emirate of Adal" which was nominally apart of Ifat and preceded the Adal Sultanate. The first capital of Adal was Dakar "The first of the medieval sultanates of eastern, Muslim Ethiopia for which there is documentary evidence was Dakar, apparently situated near Fiyambiro south-east of modern Harar. Dakar was established as the capital of the local Walashma dynasty early in the fifteenth century."  also why did you link the Dakkar article to the Aw-Barkhadle page even though Dakkar has its own standalone article? محرر البوق (talk) 22:00, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adal's capital 

message: This map is absolutely asinine. If it wasn't made by a person with an Arabic username, I would assume they were some Abyssinian nationalist. The historical documentation all supports the fact that, at its peak, Adal ranged from Suakin in Sudan, to Cape Guardafui in Northern Somalia.
"At the cost of incredible human losses on both sides, Imam Ahmad
succeeded in creating a bogus fabric of an empire that included most of what is today Ethiopia and northern Somalia up to Cape Gardafu if not to Mogadishu. This was the first and the last forced unification of the Horn. In this vast area, especially in the central highlands, a
certain administrative order was established as symbolized by the appointment of Muhammed Ibrahim, the brother of the Imam in Harar region, of Wazir Adole, at first in Bali and later as the supreme commander and administrator of the whole south and central part of the Christian kingdom,
of Amir Husayn bin Abu Bakar Gatouri for Dawaro, and of Wazir Abbas, the uncle of the Imam, as the overall commander and administrator of the
northern section, including the Red Sea region of/Eritrea."
The previous map should be reverted, as that was clearly more accurate. Sarkissati (talk) 17:38, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: The map doesnt state it was at its peak but at 1540 thats a decade before Ahmed reaches most of Ethiopia/Eritrea. The other map was not accurate the Habesha kingdom, Afar and Ajuran states did not exist during the Adal domination of the horn. Imam Ahmed state didnt occupy Sudan, I think you have him conflated with Badlay. Magherbin (talk) 02:22, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Adal domination of the horn stretched 160 years from the early 15th century to late 16th century. Afar kingdoms also existed at the same time often referred to as Danakil by europeans.  The Ajuran period stretched from the 13th-17th century. So they were contemporaries of one another. TriSolar (talk) 19:32, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

text: Ajuuran most certainly existed in 1540, though of course they were under Adalite domination. And what? By 1540 Ahmed Gurey was master of the Horn, with his conquests only reversed by the Portuguese intervention. Typically in Wikipedia, the map of a nation at its peak is shown. The first French Empire for example is shown at its height in 1812, even though those gains were ephemeral. Sarkissati (talk) 22:57, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

text: According to British explorer Charles Johnston, the Adal Sultanate by the orders of Imam Ahmad ibn Ibrahim. His troops had subdued the countries of Gondar and Massawa to the north and the country of Magadish to the south. This was attested to a library in the city of Harar that held the spoils of the Imam which included a map drawn by his wishes. Supposedly Haji Sharmarke Ali Saleh also had a copy.  Page 362. Replayerr (talk) 11:46, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't believe Mogadishu was apart of Adal. It was ruled by its own sultanate during this time. The accounts of European explorers are not really reliable and some of them tend to make bizarre claims at times. محرر البوق (talk) 17:34, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  What on Earth is this map? 

message: :@Pruehito and @TriSolar don't enter into an edit war and instead use the talk page. You both have broken the 3RR rule with all the reverts so don't change the article again before discussing. Limegreencoral (talk) 23:35, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: @Pruehito I've just added a source that describes Somalis and Afars as being the majority. There are also other sources that may says something else. As @TriSolar said, there is no universal scholarly consensus on the matter, there may be different opinions. So I think you should leave the article alone. Limegreencoral (talk) 03:19, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: @Pruehito you can not just draw conclusions when there is no scholarly consensus. In the article there are sources that depict different opinions. Cease your editing please. Limegreencoral (talk) 01:38, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd like to add my voice to this and ask Pruehito and TriSolar to stop edit warring and instead discuss here. To say that Somalis were "peripheral" without any evidence is a huge stretch. Please provide evidence here before making any further edits. محرر البوق (talk) 17:31, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stop edit warring 

message: @Limegreencoral, Zeila wasnt founded at the same time of Adal Sultanate, we arent going to add the history of towns on an article about Adal Sultanate. The reference makes no mention of Adal anyway hence its original research. The statement can be moved to Somali peoples or the relevant towns history section. The reference implies the towns existed during the Roman empire where trade existed between Somalis and Romans, Adal didnt exist during the Roman empire perhaps those towns did. This is therefore off topic when passages are cited they need to stay on the topic concerning the subject at hand. Magherbin (talk) 14:42, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't add that part of the article, but I see where you're coming from. Alright. Limegreencoral (talk) 15:25, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Towns  

message: Dakar wasn’t the capital in the early years of Sabr Ad din’s reign that was Siyaro Al Maqrizi mentions that the 10 brothers landed in Siyaro first and Ba’lawi manuscript mentions it as their base Matan ibn Uthman (talk) 01:33, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Magherbin@Socialwave597 Matan ibn Uthman (talk) 01:34, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Why are you pinging me? Did I revert your edit? You make the edit and if people disagree then you start a discussion. Magherbin (talk) 01:48, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

text: @Matan ibn Uthman Is this confirmed by any secondary source? Socialwave597 (talk) 21:52, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

text: I've listed 13 sources above  that the capital was the Harar plateau, the center of power was actually established by his uncle Haqq ad-Din II, this is why Sabr Ad din returned to that specific location. Editors continue to bring this up though and i'm abit tired of this discussion. The viewpoint that Adal was somesort of Somaliland entity has been debunked by recent archaeologists. Magherbin (talk) 22:00, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Siyaro as the capital 

message: Al-Umari mentioning the seasons of Bil and Karam are Ethio-Semetic words. The first month of the Ethiopian calander is called Maskaram and Karam/kirmi signify summer rains. Belg is a winter season in Ethiopia. Somalis don't use Bil and Karam, the source linked makes some poor connection between bil, and for karam, that is only found in the North. It is just factually incorrect so it had to be removed. GetRektLLLLL (talk) 05:24, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bil and Karam