Talk:Sudetenland

message: thumb|right|250px|Areas with predominantly German speaking populations in 1945.
Here is the link to the Sudeten German Landsmannschaft, representing the people ethnically cleansed in 1945-47: http://www.sudeten.de/bas/index_b.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.29.85.7 (talk) 03:47, 1 June 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: You are absolutely correct, "ethnic cleansing" did not occur.  Why, only 2,232,544 Germans were forcibly transferred out of Czechoslovakia and 244,000 were allowed to remain.  Using the term "ethnic cleansing" probably wouldn't apply until 97% or so of those 244,000 had also been forcibly removed.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.14.217.231 (talk) 22:51, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Older posts

message: As far as I understood, the Munich Conference was on September 29, 1938. Mussolini, Daladier, and Chamberlain gave Hitler permission at that conference to occupy the Sudetenland, in exchange for the guarantee that his ambitions were satiated. The Germans occupied the Sudetenland on October 10, 1938... not 1939, as is written in the article. I want a verification before I correct this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.123.189.12 (talk • contribs) 08:07, 3 March 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: the article looks correct, speaking of takeover of the germanpopulated regions in october, and occupation of the rest of the czech country in march. See the map on :de:Sudetenland. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Guidod (talk • contribs) 06:33, 23 September 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  1939????? 

message: I found this on the photo discussion page, and I was actually thinking the same thing:
This is a butchered photo, I've seen copies of the original many times. It would be best to show the whole photo - or another. (in the original, the woman to her right is bravely saluting and there is no weeping like the women pictured here)
On a side note, although a vehicle propaganda, die Deutsche Wochenschau's coverage of the annexation  in 1938 paints a pretty good picture of the elation of the Sudeten Germans and certainly makes one wonder how much of an "occupation"" it really was. --Hohns3 16:53, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The standard cropped image can be found at the National Archives (#78). This webpage shows the original picture, along with other images of the annexation. Olessi 18:36, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have a Time-Life source that, despite it being Time-Life, actually includes the entire photo. The woman to the right is actually on the left and depicted in full. Unfortunately, I am not in contact with a scanner or the book, nor would it be "legal" to post here. Still, I don't think it is scholarly to interpret the photo if it isn't even represented as its whole. I'm not impressed by the fact that it is National Archives, especially since they tampered with it, so I think we should try really hard to track down a usuable copy of the original. I'm still completely in awe with this: "The tragedy of this Sudeten woman, unable to conceal her misery as she dutifully salutes the triumphant Hitler, is the tragedy of the silent millions who have been `won over' to Hitlerism by the `everlasting use' of ruthless force." I'm sure Goebbels would be proud. --Hohns3 23:01, 24 July 2006 (UT
What does it matter why the woman was crying? Should this photo be used as an excuse for the expulsion of 3 million Sudeten Germans? Sudeten Germans did not vote for Hitler, they did not belong to the German Reich and quite a lot of them were originally Social Democrats in those industrialized areas. By the way, how politically minded were women at that time?
But they and their children had to carry the burden of the expulsion.--92.230.68.196 (talk) 21:41, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Controversial photo

message: Sudetenland also includes part of Poland, region known in German as Glatzer Ländchen and in Polish as Ziemia Kłodzka.
Someone should add this to the whole article. - 
Norum 04:22, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Poland 

message: Now that the Czech Republic has joined the EU, there is presumably nothing stopping the Sudeten Germans or their descendants settling in this region again. Are any doing so? Adam 04:21, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, of course, they didn't. Who wanted to come back and settle in CR, did it soon after Velvet revolution (1989). The rest of them wants only the property or money (but most of Sudeten Germans simply wants to forget the past, without any requests).--Honzula 13:55, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My grandfather was from Sudetenland. At the time the borders opened, he was getting ready to celebrate his 80th birthday and in assisted living. He wasn't capable of traveling long distances any more, much less moving (and why would he want to, with all his family in the West?). I'm sure he would've loved to see his old homeland one more time before he died, but alas, it didn't work out for him. This probably applies to many folks of his generation. As for his descendents: We were born and grew up in northern Germany, so Sudetenland is foreign to us, a far-away country only featuring in grandpa's homesick tales. We might take a family trip there at some point just to see where he grew up and what those tales were about and see if we can figure out the mountains and churches he painted over the years and the few old scratched photographs he managed to rescue, but that's more like folks from the US traveling to Europe to see where their ancestors came from. - tameeria 18:19, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The number of czech citizens are known apart of population cenzus (unfortunatelly influenced by policy - Germans cound't be in CS administration). But there is a big misunderstanding: since 13th centure, there was a continual setlement of german speaking people in Bohemia, but in order of a few thousands! There is no evidence of movement of tens of thousands etc. The fact there were over 3milions of german speaking persons in 20th century was done by 1) germanisation during Habsburg era, 2) mostly qualified handycraftsman were invited to improve bohemian "economy", the progress came from german speaking coutries, and hand to hand with progress came the languege. Keep in mind, that the most of German citizens in Sudeten had czech origin names (Dworak, even Henleins mother ... ) and about a third of Wien has slavic names till today... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.83.67.110 (talk) 16:09, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Current situation

message: Wasn't Sudetenland designated as any region with an over-30% German minority, so quite a few, if not all, of the regions actually contained Czechoslovak majority? I think I heard that somewhere, but I can't remember where. +Hexagon1 (t) 05:25, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  30% 

message: The so called "Sudetenland coat of arms" displayed in this article is in fact the coat of arms of Sudetengerman's movement and was designed in jully 1950 in Germany. Because this article don't describe the history after 1950 I suggest to remove this picture!--Honzula 13:56, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Feel free, Be bold, I did say time-period unknown. +Hexagon1 (t) 10:52, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  coat of arms 

message: Whatever your interpretation of the image, it doesn't make sense to have two copies 1. :Image:Anschlusstears.gif and 2. :Image:Prague 1939 tragic greeting.jpg? Does anyone have a preference, the darker or the lighter? I think I prefer #1, the darker of the two. Please post your comments at Talk:German_occupation_of_Czechoslovakia#Photo:_Tears_of_joy.2C_tears_of_sadness NOT here. - TheMightyQuill 03:57, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photo: Tears of joy, tears of sadness 

message: So-called "Sudetenland" is only German and teleologic denomination of geographically roughly determinated territory of Czech state. It has never been official, not even unofficial, not even after occupation of the rest of Czechoslovakia by Nazis in 1939. It was only a political and tactical product of Hitler´s intention of Third reich expansion.--Jan Blanicky 18:32, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The term Sudetenland was formed at the beginning of the last century for the border region of Bohemia, where mainly Germans had been living for 800 years. Before that time the Germans there considered themselves as Deutschböhmen. It has nothing to do with the Nazis.--92.230.68.196 (talk) 20:58, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Sudetenland" 

message: I am looking für the article Dr. Walter Staffa in the german Wikipedia (See:~http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Staffa) for informations to the Hodolein-camp near Olomouc (in this time called too "Olmütz").
Which persons where in the camp? Normal members of the german "Wehrmacht", normal people called "Sudetendeutsche", or members of organisations of Konrad Henlein oder NSDAP-members?
Dr. Walter Staffa is a far right, former in the "Sudetendeutsche Landsmannschaft" und in the "Witikobund", leader of the extrem right "Deutsches Seminar".
See here*http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsches_Seminar
I want to proof what he said about the "Lager Hodolein" near "Olmütz".
Any information is warmly welcomed. Please inform me only in the german" Wikipedia, under member "Nup".
Just klick here: *http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benutzer_Diskussion:Nup
Thank ou in advice!
Nup (talk) 12:26, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Informations to the "Lager Hodolein" near Olomouc ("Olmütz") in 1946 

message: I am writing and editing under some difficulties (in the moment application to wipe it away) and some other actions, see
*http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sudetendeutsche_Landsmannschaft&diff=next&oldid=39516818
the article Dr. Walter Staffa in the german Wikipedia (See:~http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Staffa) for informations about Dr. Walter Staffa, a high member of the "Sudetendeutsche Landsmannschaft" in Germany, but a Far Right too.
Even I'm looking for informations about the so called Hodolein-camp near Olomouc (in this time called too "Olmütz").
Which persons where in the camp? Normal members of the german "Wehrmacht", normal people called "Sudetendeutsche", or members of organisations of Konrad Henlein oder NSDAP-members?
Dr. Walter Staffa is a far right, former in the "Sudetendeutsche Landsmannschaft" und in the "Witikobund", leader of the extrem right "Deutsches Seminar".
See here*http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsches_Seminar
I want to proof what he said about the "Lager Hodolein" near "Olmütz".
Any information is warmly welcomed. Please inform me only in the german" Wikipedia, under member "Nup".
Just klick here: *http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benutzer_Diskussion:Nup
Nup (talk) 12:26, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Informations to '''Dr. Walter Staffa''', since 1946 in Germany, born  * 7. September 1917 in Kromeriz (then Kremsier / Österreich-Ungarn), active for the "sudetendeutsche Sache" in "Sudetendeutsche Landsmannschaft and the Far right oranzation "Deutsches Seminar" in Germany 

message: According to Time Magazine, "CZECHOSLOVAKIA: Pax Runciman" Monday, Aug. 15, 1938, the first day of Lord Runciman's program included 20-minute meetings with President Eduard Benes and Premier Milan Hodza; two lengthy conferences with "henchmen" (as the article calls them) of Henlein; and, next day lunch with Dr. & Mme Benes; a short conference at his hotel with non-Nazi Czech Germans.
It is obvious from the use of the word "henchmen" that this article is not exactly unbiased, but it does seem to show that the statement in the article that, and I quote "Lord Runciman has however conducted his investigation in a rather peculiar manner, by directly meeting the Sudeten Germans from Henlein's SdP, and asking them what are their biggest grievances. During his entire mission, Lord Runciman did not contact the Czechoslovak side even once" is just plain wrong. Currently I am reading through some of the UK Cabinet papers of the time up to Munich, and including the Runciman period, and I will see if I can find more detailed information.
For those of you who are interested, I am currently reading the relevant documents available from the National Archive website in the UK.
Conclusions
Memoranda
The files are large, but interesting.
Kuitan (talk) 01:18, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Runciman 

message: The article says:
British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain met with Adolf Hitler in Berchtesgaden on 15 September and agreed to the cession of the Sudetenland. Three days later, French Prime Minister Édouard Daladier did the same. No Czechoslovak representative was invited to these discussions.
This account is problematic. According to Neville Chamberlain's account no decision was made after the first meeting, no decision COULD be made after the first meeting. [CC 39(38) p 15 ]
Kuitan (talk) 10:59, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hitler and Chamberlain meetings. 

message: See Egerland for the sources for the Eger 1061 mention as a German city of the March of the Nordgau. This became part of the 1919-1939 "Sudetenland" political region. South Moravia also has another settlement history than Asch and Mährisch-Schönberg in the northwest and northeast!Smith2006 (talk) 15:09, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Political maps show, that the shape of Bohemia was during the times almost the same, but a little part at the western top was acqired by Bohemia during the Middle Ages. This information seems to be correct. Henrig (talk) 20:21, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Egerland addition in prelude to Sudetenland history 

message: See Egerland for the sources for the Eger 1061 mention as a German city of the March of the Nordgau. This became part of the 1919-1939 "Sudetenland" political region. South Moravia also has another settlement history than Asch and Mährisch-Schönberg in the northwest and northeast!Smith2006 (talk) 15:10, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Egerland addition in prelude to Sudetenland history 

message: The current map at the start of the article is unsourced. Looking at its description it seems it was based on unscholarly source from a private homepage which no longer exists.--MyMoloboaccount (talk) 08:35, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Map 

message: In current English-language usage, when — if at all — is the name preceded by the definite article, i.e. the Sudetenland? The page at present appears inconsistent (or follows a rule unfamiliar to this native speaker of American English). -- Deborahjay (talk) 09:04, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It's uncommon in modern American English and was previously (i.e., during the time of its existence) used inconsistently in British and American English. If the exact numbers or dates are important, you could check with Google ngram. — LlywelynII 11:39, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The term may be used infrequently in America. But the definite article is still used in English.  I cannot see why it is stated that Sudetenland was "used in English in the first half of the 20th century". Both "The Sudetenland" and "Sudetenland" are still used in English.Royalcourtier (talk) 06:09, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  [The] Sudetenland 

message: Fixed an unsourced (and unsourceable, since false) sentence in the intro claiming the area was majority Czech. Since it was probably added by a local nationalist, it's likely to reappear. Anyone keeping an eye on the page, kindly fix it each time. — LlywelynII 11:39, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Nationalist POVy Intro

message: In the "Sudeten Crisis" section, it says "On 24 April 1938 the SdP proclaimed the Karlsbader Programm (de) ... The government accepted these claims on June 30, 1937." Impossible. There is insufficient specification of years throughout this whole section, unless the June 30, 1937 date is erroneous and everything actually took place between March and October 1938. Chris the speller yack 13:10, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I see above that this came up a couple of years ago, in April 2011. I am going to be bold and change 1937 to 1938, since this article is not getting much attention from caring editors. Chris the speller yack 15:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: What you have done aligns the English language entry with the German language entry and (as far as I can figure it out which isn't very far) the Czech language entry.  Probably you already spotted all that.   But I thought I detected a residual sadness that you were maybe writing a note only to yourself.   Wrong.  You're not alone and for whatever it may be worth I think you did something good here. Regards Charles01 (talk) 17:17, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dates are out of order 

message: Is/was the Sudeten Germans of Austrian or German nationality? --85.76.71.203 (talk) 22:19, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Herrenvolk und Lebensraum, sounds german to me.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 171.23.6.11 (talk) 19:54, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  They were German speaking people from the former Austro-Hungarian Empire. To the extent that they had a nationality, they were Czechs. Before then they were Bohemian citizens of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Do not make the mistake of equating language, ethnicity, and nationality. Hmoulding (talk) 21:32, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Austrian or German? 

message: The article says, "skilled forced labour of remaining ethnic German men remained necessary." That is weaselly. I have fixed it. Hmoulding (talk) 21:40, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Weasel words in reference to slave labor 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
* 
Participate in the deletion discussion at the . —Community Tech bot (talk) 03:07, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
* 
Participate in the deletion discussion at the . —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:07, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
* 
Participate in the deletion discussion at the . —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:05, 9 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: This article is constructed in a very biased manner and is unfair. 2A00:23C4:B63A:1800:919B:8642:DD49:D1B5 (talk) 14:41, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Biased article

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
* 
Participate in the deletion discussion at the . —Community Tech bot (talk) 09:53, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
* 
Participate in the deletion discussion at the . —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:10, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: What happen in Eastern Ukraine, the annexation of the Donbass region, is an exact repetition of what Hitler did in 1938. 2A02:1210:6E75:F200:9BE:D575:4367:DE40 (talk) 09:39, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  SUDETENLAND AND DONBASS IN  UKRAINE ARE IDENTICAL.