Talk:Archbishop Quigley Preparatory Seminary

message: I believe that the list of "distinguished alumni" from Quigley's Web site consists of people who were official recognized by QPS as being "distinguished". There are others who attended QPS who may or may not have graduated who became distinguished, if not famous, in other fields. For example, my understanding is that Gene Krupa, the famous jazz drummer, and Marty Sheen, the actor, attended Quigley (at different times, of course). I don't have the references, but I wonder whether Quigely will archive all those records from the past 101 years, and make them available to scholars. That would be the sure fire way to verify this. 
RSzoc 18:22, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Distinguished Alumni 

message: :In the late 1950’s, the seminary built a new high school, Quigley Preparatory Seminary South 
:which opened in 1961. In 1989, facing declining enrollment, the Archdiocese closed both 
:Quigley North and Quigley South.
Is there an error in the article?  I thought Q North = Quigley, and that Q South was the only campus closed c. 1989.  (Today's Trib article may have said 1990, by the way.) Billbrock 03:16, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  1989 

message: Colleagues, the recent changes to the alumni listing seem to be by some kind of hierarchical/alphabetical order, but whoever rearranged this section of the page using that method didn't finish the job.  Previously, the alumni section was arranged in hierarchical/alphabetical order for living bishops, then by class of graduation for everyone else.  Any suggestions?
Ajschorschiii 02:59, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ordering of Alumni

message: Karl Hench added back in.  His connection to TV show Beauty and Geek seems to be verified per the Wiki site for the show.  Can we verify that Andrew Sawa is the same Devon Sawa from the show?
Ajschorschiii 04:38, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Beauty and Geek, II

message: One advantage of placing the living alumni hierarchy on top, and the rest of the alumni arranged chronologically and by alphabet within graduation class, is that a reader can then get a sense of the tradition of the school.  By arranging the entire alumni list by the order of cardinal/archbishop/bishop/monsignor/priest/deacon?/laity as a recent contributor did, we miss a certain sense of tradition being passed on. . . I suggest we make a compromise between hierarchy and chronology. Comments?Ajschorschiii 15:14, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: More on Alumni Order

message: I propose that all changes to this Quigley Wiki page be made by those who sign in as opposed to anonymous IP address only entries, and that we try to document every single entry if possible.  For that reason I'm temporarily taking the Timothy Nicholl (QN '75) entry off until someone signs in with a user name and puts him back in.
Ajschorschiii 17:19, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Suggest Signed Edits

message: An anonymous poster added Andrew Sawa, (AQ '03) back in, along with Mark Heneghan, (AQ'06).  A. Sawa's connection to the Beauty and the Geek show now checks out per several websites.  M. Heneghan is listed as a student at the university cited, but presently the fraternity leadership has not been verified. Ajschorschiii 17:29, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Beauty and Geek, III

message: In the absence of comments by others, have reordered the alumni by living bishops by hierarchy/alphabet, and then all others by graduation year, hierarchy, alphabet. Will continue to add names from official Q distinguished alumni list.Ajschorschiii 02:08, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Even more on Ordering of Alumni

message: Should there be references to academics, sports, spiritul, student life, and other highlights within Quigley's history?  e.g. Roger Pinon finished 9th in the state cross country finals, highest ever in Quigley history.  Also, should we highlight faculty of Quigley, esp. those who have been there for over 10 years and alums returning to Quigley to teach?  `P '02
I've added another section to the article below the alumni lists, entitled "Other Quigley Facts and Figures," where some of the sports records and other facts about Quigley can go that don't quite fit into the history narrative.  These will be more difficult to document, however, if they are sports records, without some link to an outside verifying source. For example, an athlete being named "All State" or placing in a major race can be found in outside newspaper articles and these can be referenced.  But internal school records are maintained by the school, and it would be hard to prevent someone from posting phoney records to the Wiki site, especially after Quigley closes, unless Quigley published some official list.  
As far as adding faculty, we could add a historic faculty roster, but this could get very long, and go beyond the purposes of a Wikipedia encyclopedia listing.  At some point, a historic faculty roster might be posted by the Quigley Alumni Association to its own website if there is interest.  Anyone is free to add alumni to the "Noted Alumni" list on the Quigley Wikipedia site, but with some kind of documentation so that the entry is verifiable in keeping with Wikipedia standards.Ajschorschiii 23:29, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Facts and Figures

message: The reference to mass once a week is incorrect.  The content on the Quigley website has not been properly updated.  Currently, there is mass 3 days a week built into the school's schedule, Monday morning prayer to begin the week and Friday afternoon prayer (as noted in the article change).  Religion class, required, was changed to Theology approx. 5 years ago.  Formations & retreats are required of all students.
The above 1/12/07 edit was unsigned. 
The paragraph mentioning the daily Mass requirement was edited to conform to the historic past tense, and moved to the bottom of the article so as not to interrupt the flow of the historic narrative above.  Linking phrases were added to connect the Mass theme with Cardinal Mundelein's 1916 letter and John Paul II's 1979 exhortation at Quigley South. The editor making the 2001 entry should probably add some reference to document per Wikipedia standard the 2001 establishment of Mass three days a week at Q.  Understood that this might have been internal archdiocesan communication, but eventually it may be available in archive if a dated letter.
I'm adding a signature to my comment above from 1/13/07, since the page was later split by a section heading for the Cardinal George item directly below. Ajschorschiii (talk) 04:19, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Frequency of Mass

message: A reference was added to show that Cardinal George was appointed archbishop in 1997, to situate his appointment in the historic flow. Ajschorschiii 06:31, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Adding Cardinal George

message: Need to verify whether James O'Gara, (Q '36), was the same James O'Gara (1918-2003) who was the noted editor of Commonweal magazine for several decades.  The birth date of the editor in 1918 from the obits and the Chicago origin and participation in Chicago's Catholic Worker jibe with the Q 1936 graduation date--http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1141/is_3_40/ai_110737048
If someone has documentation, please leave a comment, since this would be a very important addition.
Admittedly, noted graduates from the Catholic Action era (1930s-1950s) are easier to document, since their names appear in histories and in the public record.  In order not to skew the historic alumni list in this Catholic Action direction, we need others to enter names from other eras and traditions.Ajschorschiii 02:50, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: James O'Gara question

message: Need to verify that Msgr. Harry Koenig (ca. 1910-2002) was a Q graduate.  Newspaper obits have him attending but he is not listed in the 2006 Q Alumni directory.  Msgrs. Koenig and J. J. Egan are the co-founders of the parish twinning program, which later was formalized as the Parish Sharing program.  
Ajschorschiii 17:47, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: H. Koenig question

message: Have added paragraphs on Archbishop Quigley's own contribution and on the land acquisition for the school, and have broken the text into more accessible sections with headings. Will continue entering alumni from distinguished and other lists, and more historic detail.Ajschorschiii 02:08, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Land Acquisition

message: Have added section on Quigley Culture and Traditions. Ajschorschiii 18:04, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Culture and Traditions

message: Added alumni entry for John H. Leims, Congressional Medal of Honor winner who attended QuigleyAjschorschiii 18:59, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: John H. Leims

message: Added item under Facts and Figures on the question of whether Quigley alumni priests outnumber alumni attorneys per comments made in the press.  While the verifiable number of priests nears 2,500, per footnote cited, the count of attorneys does not span back to the beginning of the school, and is thus presently unverified. Ajschorschiii 02:07, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Priests or Lawyers

message: An editor added the word "was" to the first paragraph.  Since Quigley will not be closed until June, 2006, this word is not factual as of 4/1/07, and will be changed back to "is" until the actual date of closing. Also, items about the move of Archdiocesan offices to Quigley were already noted at the bottom of the article, so some of this language can be moved below so as not to make the article seem like an article about archdiocesan offices. Ajschorschiii 04:26, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Not closed yet, 4/1/07

message: A number of rumors related to the closing of Quigley have been added by a recent editor.  These rumors are being removed until some substantiation is offered, per Wikipedia practice.Ajschorschiii 04:26, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Editing unsubstantiated rumors

message: A recent editor added a section for current students, and then a single name migrated between freshman and sophomore year through various edits.   Since current students can only be documented by the school, and federal FERPA regulations may not allow for a list of minor students to be posted without their parent's consent unless they are otherwise newsworthy, this section was removed for lack of documentation.  A Wikipedia listing is an Encyclopedia listing, must be substantiated, and has a different mission from an online yearbook.Ajschorschiii 06:25, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed current students

message: A recent editor entered an alumni name and assigned the name to the US ambassadorship to Andorra.   According to the US State Department website, the ambassadorship to Andorra is assigned to the US ambassador to Spain, who has a different name from that of the alumni entered. The alumni entry was therefore removed. Ajschorschiii 06:39, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed false entry on Andorra

message: An anonymous editor continues to add personal insults to the website.  These will continue to be removed.Ajschorschiii 03:11, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed personal attacks on individuals

message: The windows.org entry lacks documentation, and could simply be urban legend.  If no documentation is provided for such an important entry which alleges an interaction between Friends of the Windows and Microsoft, it will be removed.Ajschorschiii 03:11, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: windows.org entry

message: Two anonymous editors have separately been alternatively inserting and then removing an undocumented listing for the nickname "Gimp" under Quigley Cultures and Traditions.   If this entry is not documented within 24 hours, it will be removed. Ajschorschiii 03:03, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Gimp

message: An anonymous editor entered a false, undocumented entry that Quigley was removed from the National Register of Historic Places.  As of 7/8/07, Quigley is still listed in the register--
http://www.nr.nps.gov/iwisapi/explorer.dll?IWS_SCHEMA=NRIS1&IWS_LOGIN=1&IWS_REPORT=100000039
Ajschorschiii 15:29, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: National Register

message: A Wiki editor recently tagged the AQPS article as too long.  The "Culture and Traditions" section is of historic interest, and could be split out.  I think the Other Noted Alumni should stay with the main article, since this section shows the significant contributions of the school both in Chicago and nationally, and has significant references integral with the main text.  Other ideas?  Please do not take action on splitting the article until we have a discussion on this page. --Ajschorschiii 02:01, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Article Too Long

message: As a wiki contributor on other matters and an Archbishop Quigley alum, I do not find the article too long.  The value in the length of the article is its comprehensiveness from approximately the 1940's forward.  Anyone viewing the article and finding it more than they needed would be free to ignore what they saw as tedious detail.  I believe that the section devoted to notable alumni, in fact anything to do with listing people, would be best moved to the end rather than prior to the Culture and Traditions section
Some additions to culture and traditions should be:
:*SO's aka strict observers
:*Thursday off and Saturday school
:*Lunch tickets, the 'caf'
:*Monsignor Meter's search for viable sopranos amongst the bennies before their voice change.  I can't recall their title.  It was something like Meter Boys. It was a thing that the freshman got caught in and then their classmates teased them mercilessly. Monsignor "Shhhh" Meter took a lot of abuse during my time.
I didn't actually add to the article as I would rather defer to Ajschorschiii since the largest measure of authorship seems to reside with him.  I did make a minor typo edit previously.  It was a fun read. Begs (talk) 21:35, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Many secondary and college articles shorten the main article by having a separate alumni article. Could this be done in this instance? --DThomsen8 (talk) 17:44, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Article Too Long 2

message: Vandalism to article undone.--Ajschorschiii (talk) 03:35, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Undid vandalism

message: This is about tag cleanup.  As all of the tags are more than a year old, there is no current discussion relating to them, and there is a great deal of editing done since the tags were placed, or perhaps there is a consensus on the discussion page, they will be removed.  This is not a judgement of content.  If there is cause to re-tag, then that of course may be done, with the necessary posting of a discussion as to why, and what improvements could be made.  This is only an effort to clean out old tags, and permit them to be updated with current issues if warranted.
The above is my pasted statement I use.  In this case, as this is an active page, I'm not going to do anything myself.  It appears to me that there is no POV dispute on the discussion page, though.  Many tags are from long ago and just don't mean anything anymore, if they ever did.  I would suggest that if the editors here have the consensus it appears they do, that they remove the tags and have a nice, clean article....Jjdon (talk) 21:51, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV tag 

message: I've reverted that last change by Merinettewc, since a typo was introduced which obscured the historic picture of the seminary building, and left raw html displayed on the first page.   I suggest that Merinettewc find a more clear Phoenix graphic.  The one inserted is of poor visual quality. --Ajschorschiii (talk) 06:55, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussion of images 

message: Wiki has placed a multiple issues tag on the article.  
I'm thinking that we should move the Traditions section to a separate article, and perhaps the Alumni as well.  Any comments?Ajschorschiii (talk) 02:35, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Multiple issues tag 

message: I've added a reference from the AIA for the description of the Quigley chapel stained glass as "dazzling," since an editor was concerned that referring to the Quigley chapel as "breathtaking" was POV.  When time permits, will add documentation for the description of "magnificent," which is contained in several published studies of stained glass.Ajschorschiii (talk) 04:15, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added citation for quality of Quigley stained glass 

message: I have just gone through and removed most of the non-notable (red linked) alumni listed here.  Per the article guidelines for school articles, alumni should only be included in a listing of notable alumni if they are already the subject of an article on Wikipedia (blue links) or would be eligible for an article under the general notability guideline.  As a graduate of a South Side Catholic institution, I firmly respect these folks (one of the people I deleted was a friend of the family), but they simply do not belong.  I fully recognize that the school has sadly been closed, but that is also covered under WP:NOT (not a memorial, not a school webpage).  Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and not a memorial.  While there is certainly some leeway on particular articles, there is already a broad consensus on what generally belongs, what generally doesn't belong, and generally how the article should be structured.  If there is a good reason for exceptions, bring them up and let's discuss them.  However, absent that, the alumni listing was a mess, and needed to be dealt with.  I apologize to editors who must have worked hard to compile that list from some list of distinguished alumni, but they simply do not belong in an encyclopedia article about the school.  I wish you the best of luck in improving this article, as I would love to see it improved. LonelyBeacon (talk) 05:46, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: LonelyBeacon, thanks!  You've done a gargantuan task, following Wikipedia rules.  A few of the deleted individuals are due for their own Wiki articles, which should then result in their return to the Archbishop Quigley Seminary page under the rules you cited.  One of the first should be the late Bishop Alfred Abramowicz, who played a major part behind the scenes in funding the Solidarity movement in Poland.  He might also be eligible under the general notability guideline, as would Fr. Mitch Pacwa, SJ, who is currently a TV host with 30M viewers in over 100 countries, as would the late Bishop Michael Dempsey, first director of the Catholic Campaign for Human Development. There are several others.Ajschorschiii (talk) 04:35, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: For what it is worth ... I always knew him as Father Abramowicz when he dined at my grandmother's house in Oak Lawn ... I suspected there might have been a few individuals who were deleted that would come back, and I will be glad to see those folks relisted.  I am currently trying to find proper referencing for the alumni, which is sadly more difficult for many of the clergy than for the non-clergy. LonelyBeacon (talk) 05:44, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks!  Many of the alumni names were originally posted with strong external reference documents.  If we stick with blue-linked names only we're going to wind up with predominantly clergy and politicians and miss some people who made a real difference in Chicago and internationally.  In the mean time, I'll gradually work as time permits on some new Wiki pages for those like those persons I mentioned above.Ajschorschiii (talk) 20:49, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

text: I'm adding the alumni reference for Bishop Alfred Leo Abramowicz back in, since he actually already had a Polish-language Wikipedia page, and now has an English-language one.  Also, another deceased bishop to be added back in when time permits is William McManus.Ajschorschiii (talk) 06:38, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

text: I've added in Fr. Mitchell Pacwa SJ, QN67, who now has his own Wiki page.  Per Dan Savage's own article already cited in his reference, he left Quigley in his sophomore year, so this fact is noted at his entry.Ajschorschiii (talk) 03:04, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Notes on alumni inclusion

message: I corrected an error introduced by another editor into the first section, which had the first year of Quigley South as 1958.  The first year was clearly 1961, as documented by Msgr. Koenig's history, referenced as note #34 in the article: Harry C. Koenig, editor, Caritas Christi Urget Nos: A History of the Offices, Agencies, and Institutions of the Archdiocese of Chicago, Vol. I, pg. 346-47.Ajschorschiii (talk) 21:41, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  First year for Quigley South was 1961 

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