Talk:Port Arthur massacre (Australia)/Archive 1

message: surely Martin Bryant (a redirect) should be a seperate (albeit smaller) article--ZayZayEM 14:27, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Just did it. --61.68.126.74 03:54, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree.  Should be merged.  The Martin Bryant page is full of lies and distortions of the truth.  It should be merged with this one so as to maintain consistency. 203.26.206.129 15:31, 28 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Own page for Bryant 

message: The following details are in doubt. My source is http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial/bryant/ (a bit sensationalistic but detailed!)
* The wiki article says that 37 people were injured but the above source states 18.
** No it doesn't. It is talking about one part of the shooting. It mentions a memorial later with 34 names. Some families did not want names on the memorial.--Dacium 01:28, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I will try to check some of this later; Australian newspapers of the time carried a great deal of information on the case. --Robert Merkel 04:27, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

text: Crime Library is one such web site for research, but don't overlook local media sources, books, old newspapers, etc. Sensationalistic is an understatement. :) -- Longhair | Talk 15:08, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

text: Recent edit to Martin Bryant) confirms his birthday to be 7 May 1966, making him 29 at the time.  This places the credibility of the above source further in doubt. --61.68.103.113 01:24, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Details in doubt 

message: Things such as "Martin Bryant has tortured animals and abused his sister" are not referenced anywhere and furthermore are not consistent with his psychological profile.  If he suffered from Asperger's Syndrome, as is claimed, then he would be retalitory, not aggressive.  But more likely he suffered from a form of Down's Syndrome (which is widely believed to be his correct diagnosis), possibly with a secondary diagnosis of Schizophrenia (but NOT multiple personalities!).  The whole thing that suggests that he abuses animals is not derived from psychiatric analysis, but rather based on one of his ex-girlfriends (if you'd bothered to research it correctly).  One of his ex-girlfriends states that he once watched "Child's Play" and that she therefore believed that he tortured animals.  Even she never hinted that he had ever bullied his sister, and in fact its the other way around.  There is no positive evidence that Martin Bryant has ever tortured an animal  The fact that he owned a copy of Child's Play, and liked the movie does not mean that it is his favourite movie, nor does it mean that he likes to torture animals.  This tiny snippet was used by the media to give the profile of a madman, which is entirely incorrect.  If you insist on using such wildly inaccurate data, then at least say "media reports" rather than "psychiatric reports".  And if you must use "psychiatric reports" then prove it.  I have read ever psychiatric report on him that is available, and as far as I know, nothing exists that even suggests such a thing.203.26.206.129 12:41, 18 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: problem with the content

message: The aftermath of the Port Arthur masscare spawned a massive wave of moral panic with the politicians, the media, and the anti-gun movement capitalising on the emotional outcry of a shocked and mourning Australian community as well as using licenced, law-abiding firearm owners as the scapegoats for the Port Arthur massacre.
:While this is an interesting and arguable contention, it's hardly NPOV.  In any case, it's getting offtopic, and might be better dealt with at Gun politics in Australia. --Robert Merkel 06:43, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Moral Panic" 

message: The article says he returned to the guest house but Bryant did not leave PA and was apprehended there. He did not get caught at the Fox and Hounds but was caught at the Cafe at the site which was the Broad Arrow.
:And your evidence for this claim, which completely contradicts not only the accounts linked to but many other media reports on the topic, is what? --Robert Merkel 11:02, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  He was caught at the Broad Arrow Cafe 

message: I've added a small section at the bottom of the article about the conspiracy theories. As much as I think they're all totally unfounded, and most of them are just personal homepages which hardly deserve mention in an encyclopaedia, I also believe that external claims that WP does not cover the theories is more damaging to WP than covering them. So there's a limited treatment of some of the more prominent ones. --bainer (talk) 00:28, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conspiracy theories 

message: I have altered the material about Pauline Hanson to reflect her quotes as reported in the source article, rather than have our article put the words of her followers into her mouth, or speculate about her opinions. --Surgeonsmate 11:32, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pauline Hanson quote 

message: This "subtle vandalism" has been removed from the article:
:After leaving the guesthouse, Bryant drove to another property and enquired after the owner, a Mrs Larner. She had also earlier declined to sell her farm to Bryant senior. Fortunately for Mrs Larner she was away when Bryant called.
Is this really vandalism? Bryant visited the Larner farm a few minutes before opening fire in the Broad Arrow. He was told that Mrs Larner was away, but in point of fact she wasn't. See this article from The Bulletin. I've restored the material. --Surgeonsmate 06:34, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I clarified the truth of it .  Someone that has lied for 10 years about something should not be regarded as fact.  There are a myriad of reasons why Roger Larner might be lying now about it. Official sources do not recognise this as truth, so we should not state it as such. 203.122.203.145 15:25, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What is to clarify? The only thing wrong with what he states is that it a a couple of minutes out of the time line. It is pretty obvious bryant talked to him just before going to PA. If you move larner time by 30 minutes it all fits--Dacium 06:46, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Hello there blissyu! You can add whatever you like as long as it is verifiable, written in a neutral point of view fashion and is backed up by reliable sources. --bainer (talk) 05:06, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Larner 

message: I have been researching the Contagion Effect (aka Copycat Effect) and wrote an article on the evidence that part of the cause of this kind of mass shooting was the media 'glamourising' (at least to a sick mind) the behaviour.
This model fits the 'c*ck-up theory' better than 'conspiracy theory'. It provides a framework to actually understand what is happening, and prevent repetitions. My article at this linkgoes into it.
After discussion I suggest that I add to the article that media behaviour is suspected of contributing to clusters of massacres, reference the publications of Professor Mullen and add the Ideas Kill article as an internet link reference. Anyone wish to comment?ChrisPer 08:15, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Would be werth getting Bryants lawyers opionin. His opionion was Bryant was a copy cat because when Bryant was asked to how he pled, he asked to plead the same way as the hoddle st. murderer. He also made many comments about the recent school massacre overseas and repeatidly asked if he 'got the record'. I believe the lawyer is writing a book about it all. Should help put the conspiracy theories to rest for once.--Dacium 21:20, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contagion Effect and Port Arthur 

message: The original source of the WASPS comment added a second statement from police which says that he was referring to actual wasps which where annoying him. Police even question him later about this and he says he is allergic to them and how they were annoying him. The only thing he said was about Japanese is that they are usually bus loads of them, he wasn't derogitory. The racial stuff was all media slantering things. A copy of the statement is shown at http://www.shootersnews.addr.com/snpawasps.html (i know its a conspiracy theory site but the copy of the statement is genuine). Also the WASPS term as claimed in this article was practially non existant in australia and it was only american media that picked up on it later.--155.144.251.120 05:15, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WASPS comment 

message: As you can see I have tried to add alot to the article to try and give details similiar to other massacres such as columbine massacre so people can try and get an idea of what happened, rather than just '20 people killed in a cafe'. I am not sure if the names should be removed competely and instead just mention where the people were from. I know that some families have requested not to be on anything to do with what happened and don't have relatives names even on the memorial, does wikipedia have a policy over this or just to state whatever facts can be, reguarless of how victums families my feel?. I would like to here suggestions about this. 
I based all the article on publically released court transcripts and police and witness statements that were released. As you can see there are still major problems. Most noticable that there simply aren't 35 people killed in the sequence I have given. I cannot find what is missed. Some of the court transcipts do not mention if people died or where just shot, because the count numbers are references, but I cannot look up the count number to see if it was murder or attempted murder. Thus it is possible some people who I listed as not shot or surviving actually died. I will be inserting numbers into the text so we can more easily number each casulaty and make sure we have them all covered.--Dacium 03:01, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Details and Number of deaths.. 

message: the Chronology is very long.
Should it be summarised here (Bryant went here, shot X, went here, hijacked a car, police arrived at X:XX EST etc.) and then the current content shifted to, say, Chronology of Port Arthur Massacre.--ZayZayEM 04:57, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: the talk page should probably be archived now that it is to long. As for the main article. I think an over-view is needed and maybe remove some useless details from the chronology. However it is in line with other massacres and there cronologies (see the columbine one)--155.144.251.120 22:16, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should chronology have its own seperate page 

message: Please express what parts you think most need fixing. It is in appropriate to just read and it and slap tags on it for formal tone and wikify.--155.144.251.120 22:26, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  When tagging the article... 

message: I am an experienced Shooter having hunted Buffaloe & Crocodiles in the N.T. of Aust in doing so gained a lot of knowledge on Firearms, and in relation to the Port Arthur Massacre find it hard to beleive that a lone gunman of Martin Bryants experience & using the firearms he is alleged to have used either with or without,as is alleged, a Laser sight he  ,could not have acheived the accuracy used to acheive the results of this shooting. Then to leave the cafe ,Shoot dead more people,then have a stand off for 18 hours with the "Police Tactical Sqad" without any further deaths or injuries by gun fire,is to me ludicrous, I dont know how or who done the killing or shootings, but I am convinced by the  evidence I have read, it was not Martin Bryant.
I am K. G. Mackintosh, of Bundaberg Qld. Aust
:Your thoughts are irrelevant. See WP:A. Dan100 (Talk) 16:01, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Try reading the court transcripts in whole and not just what certain POV books and conspiracy web sites 'pick' because it fits their theories. Originally I had same opionion, even from some 'books' on the topic until I read official documents etc. The court transcripts descibe how most (if not all) of the people he shot, were shot from range of less than 1m, most of them with the barrel a few inches or literally touching them. When he fired at people from distance he routinely missed (he fired at ~12 people outdoors missing almost all of them, only caused very minor injures to 12 or so people he shot at in their cars. Failed to shoot any police from distances of 50m etc. The FURTHEST he was from someone he shot and killed was determined to be around 2m, possibly less if he extended his arms. He did his murders by walking directly upto people and firing.--Dacium 04:06, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments placed incorrectly on "Assessment" link

message: :The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 
Rename because the massacre in the Sino-Japanese war is just as likely, if not more likely, the desired topic from a search by people accessing Wikipedia. 132.205.44.134 00:26, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Requested move to [[Port Arthur massacre (1996)]]