Talk:Clean climbing

message: Here in Ireland, bolts are not tolerated at all, but pitons are accepted where there is no alternative. Is that the case for "clean" cliffs elsewhere, and should the article be modified to make the distinction? Rwxrwxrwx 19:48, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you talking about fixed pitons for belays? If you're talking about routine hammering as part of a standard ascent, then, no, that's not clean. A fixed piton might be a little bit cleaner than a bolt, but I personally don't think that either one really meets the ideal of a "clean" climb. Some might say that "clean" means to avoid hammering as a means of ascent, while they would concede a need for permanent, solid belay protection, but others might say that any damage to the rock is not "clean", even if it's a permanent fixture that will save all future parties from having to hammer or drill any more. In short, I think the case you're describing doesn't warrant any special treatment in the article. -Beanluc (talk) 00:17, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Bolts v. pitons

message: :I put in a bit more history. Also some slight re-writing. I tried not to trash anything that was in there previously. Hope I didn't.
:I think there is still some confusion here. If "clean climbing" never existed and climbers used ony pitons and bolts, there would still certainly be a distinction between "trad" and "sport" climbing. So trad climbing isn't the same thing as clean climbing. If a mountaineer takes a couple of pitons and maybe uses them, he certainly isn't sport climbing, and I guess he's not "clean climbing." The old boys at the Gunks back in the 50s were "trad climbing" and used nothing but the occasional piton and a lot of run-out probably.
:Another weak point: The article at present might give the mistaken impression to the uninformed that some climbers today might but for "ethics," still  prefer to climb with a rack full of pitons instead of modern gear.
:Also, "clean" devices cannot, obviously "replace" a bolt if it's placed where there are no cracks. The ethic of "clean climbing" can dictate, certainly, that bolts not be placed, in which case there are instances where you'd get nada for protection, which is partly the idea, I suppose. "Fair means" 'n all.....
:Also, obviously, no citations. I should have bothered to add some. A bit tedious and the material is so obvious. Maybe I'll take a minor stab at it.
Calamitybrook (talk) 18:16, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Tweaking 

message: :Dunno if anybody cares but I've made more changes. The original article may have been slightly misguided.
:There remains some confusion between the terms "clean climbing" and "trad climbing" and this problem continues. I tried somewhat to lessen this difficulty.
:yet I continue to believe, somewhat, that an entry for "clean climbing" is justified as a very significant aspect of the history of rock climbing.
Calamitybrook (talk) 05:05, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: More messing

message: :Out of boredom. Don't suppose it matters much. I think it's been improved.
:I did remove the MSR guy. Certainly his views were interesting and significant at the time, but there was no real explaination of what he said, nor citation.
Calamitybrook (talk) 18:14, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: More re-writing

message: A technique doesn't describe a value, obviously, though it may reflect values.Calamitybrook (talk) 14:49, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I concede. So, I re-worded. But, you reverted a lot of other material besides that one point, so, I had more work here to do than just re-wording that one part. --71.198.34.87 (talk) 03:31, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Edit revert

message: I watched a climbing movie that had a bit in it on Czech climbing standards where no nuts or bolts but only slings and ropes with knots it was used for protection and no chalk was allowed. I forget the name of the movie but I feel as though this must be know-of at least to the extend that it deserves a section.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.230.52.201 (talk) 18:10, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: New ultra-clean standards

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thread_title:  External links modified