Talk:Pan's Labyrinth/Archive 1

message: I believe that pan is the original name of the girl from underground before she comes up and dies in the beginning, but I am not sure. I was just wondering if the name could be cleared up, because some people might be confused because the girl is Ophelia.
Surely Pan is the name of the faun.   Pan is a traditional Greek god, I believe, who took the figure of a faun.
Pan is the faun. Ofelia/Princess _________ is the girl. --Releeshan 19:57, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As was pointed out in an argument I had about this, Pan was not even *a* faun. He was a god shaped like a faun. A faun-god, at a stretch. This translation irritates me to no end (I mean that in reference to the distribution, mind, you, not irritation at you Aaron, heh)FangsFirst 05:54, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  who is pan? 

message: I think that this film article could use additional content beyond the plot summary and the cast.  There should be production information out there about how Pan's Labyrinth was filmed.  Anyone up for this? --Erik (talk/contrib) @ 15:43, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Article expansion

message: So the creature that was pictured in the paintings eating babies, and that eats the two fairies, is that supposed to be Saturn/Cronus?  I was wondering if that character was based on mythology or not.  Interesting.
:I also noticed some references to the Greek myth of Persephone in this scene. Wonderbreadwop 17:19, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's really, really interesting!  Just thought I'd leave a note to say thanks for the background info.  -Elizabennet 23:33, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Aaaaaah...

message: No-where in this article does it say the classification. Could someone please rectify this please. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.145.240.131 (talk • contribs) 08:38, December 17, 2006
:It says fantasy film in the lead paragraph. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 15:09, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that person meant the rating, like 18,16,12,pg etc, I think this varies by coutry and I dont know if we normally put this kind of info on about films so Im not going to do it myself. --Timmywimmy 23:50, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

text: It has been rated 15 by the BBFC (Pan's Labyrinth) - 90.192.77.201 22:12, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: 15 in the UK.  I liked the film, but it does contain scenes of torture and execution, and a lot of blood, and really might have warranted an 18. Although the central character is a child, and it contains fantastical elements, this is NOT a children's film Indisciplined 22:51, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually imho it was correctly classified as 15, as these were not gratuitous and key parts of the plot. I'm squeamish, and there was only point I had to look away. An 18 certificate would have given a misleading impression that the film was more violent than it was. I completely agree that this is NOT a children's film. Thryduulf 02:15, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Personally, I would rate this film an 18 certificate.  The violence, while not wall-to-wall entrails and eyeballs, is extremely disturbing -- maybe because it's not gratuitous.  I would put the violence on the same level as Hannibal, which (here in Australia) had its rating changed from MA15+ to R18 after the first week. Lontano 11:06, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Classification

message: The opening the portal scene reminds me of the similar ones in Buffy. Xiner (talk, email) 04:39, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opening the portal 

message: The article says she is 12 years old, but I don't remember seeing that in the movie. Where is this said? PlatformerMastah 01:34, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The actress at the time of filming was 12 years old. The original script called for an 8-year-old girl, but after seeing her audition del Toro had it rewritten for an older character. This tidbit was in a recent HBO special. I can look for a source if you need. 72.183.12.164 10:54, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've just watched the Guardian Interview at the NFT on the DVD where Del Toro calls her 'an eleven year old girl'.  I can see that someone has already altered her age in the article, but I thought it was worth mentioning here in case someone needs a source for this. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Liquidcow (talk • contribs) 14:15, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ofelia's age 

message: Is this really a word? It's in the last sentence of the influences section, as of --Mongreilf 11:31, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thankyou to whoever changed it--Mongreilf 23:24, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "filmization" 

message: How do we know they were Republican?  I remember Capt. Vidal found some literature that had a very Bakunin-esque title 'No god, no state' or somthing.  I assumed they represented the last of the spanish anarchist resistance (FAI/CNT).  Was the 'republican' designation in the movie?  Thanks.  -Freddie
:Yes, it's designated in the movie and production notes (see "About the Story" at the movie's official site). By the site's account: "Many ordinary Spaniards, along with communists and anarchists, joined the government's Republican Army" to oppose the Nationalists. 72.183.12.164 10:57, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  the insurgents 

message: "The film has received a good reception from critics around the world, earning a 97% on Rotten Tomatoes, with 105/108 positive reviews"
Come on, give credit where it's due. That's amazing reception. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.139.212.155 (talk) 18:58, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "good" reception?! COME ON 

message: I think the "mistakes" section is a little ridiculous. While the Labyrinth housing the Minotaur had only one route through it, it's fairly nitpicky to say that del Toro "mistook" the term "labyrinth" for "maze", as common usage of the word leaves the two interchangeable. 
(Plus, if you want to get really nitpicky, there WAS only one way through. The trees that opened up for Ofelia.)
In my opinion, the "mistakes" section should be removed (or filled in with actual mistakes)
Rootyb 00:51, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Excellent.  Besides, how can modern academics redefine the word "labyrinth" to mean something with just one path, when the most famous ancient use of the word clearly referred to a maze?   Next thing you know they'll be claiming that "weight" and "mass" aren't synonyms.... — Lawrence King (talk) 06:38, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: They aren't? ;-) --Releeshan 00:04, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

text: That's a shame --User:ArtVandelay27 00:27, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Mistake"? 

message: The article would probably be richer with some more analysis/ discussion on the movie, rather than a mere description of the plot. Has anyone seen any source discussing things like the parallels between Ofelia's undergroung world versus the real world? Some potential examples are:
- When in ther real world Mercedes steals a key, in the underground world, Ofelia obtains a key;
- the captain devises a plan of tempting the insurgents by food and supplies (if they come to eat it, they risk their lives); the Pale Man tempts Ofelia with food (if she eats if, she risks her life);
- the doctor at first obeys authority and then decides to disobey by standing up to the captan and he pays with his life (bringing up obeying without question in his last words); Ofelia agrees to obey the Faun without question and then disobeys, paying with her life;
- both the Pale Man and the captain are brutal torturers
- the faun was at times a disciplinarian, who wants the rules to be followed (and to be obeyed?); the capitain is a disciplinarian fixed on rules and schedules (e.g., the first thing he tells Ofelia is to shake with the correct hand) and wants to be obeyed.
- The real baby (inside the pregnant mother) is mirrored by the mandrake, shaped like a baby, sitting directly under the real world (the underworld sitting literally under the real world). Both the baby and the mandrake feed on milk and blood. (Not exactly symmetric, but a possibility: the mother destroys the mandrake baby and the real baby destroys the mother) AnandaLima 10:15, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Symbolism and Recurring Themes

message: Page currently says, "The three fairies Pan gives to Ofelia to guide her along the way."  <--who the heck is Pan???
All of the little [Edit] links on this page open up the wrong section to edit! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nova101 (talk • contribs) 15:24, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ERRORS ON THIS PAGE 

message: This section either needs to be removed or cited thoroughly. Reeks of speculation and original research. I think the author might in fact have some valid points, but this wouldn't be the venue in which to propose them.Vafthrudnir 21:53, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Pan's Labrynth as a Critique of Catholicism" 

message: Why does everyone keep deleting my section? I have valid points! The movie touches upon some really interesting ideas. Let there be an interpretation section as long as it's referenced —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Way4thesub (talk • contribs) 11:41, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Unless you can give a reliable source that verifies your infomation, it's original research. It seems that your section, no matter how valid you believe your points to be, is purely your opinion. dposse 13:43, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  interpretation 

message: I deleted a section comparing Pan's Labyrinth to Spirited Away. It appeared to be original research. If someone has a reliable reference for this, please add it back Cogswobble 17:52, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spirited Away 

message: :  Did some revision work, cleaned up redundancy, more references, more sections, talkheader on discussion page. I hope I can contribute positively in the future. --Beanssnaeb 02:49, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  great revisions so far everyone. we should maybe work to get this GA status. --Beanssnaeb 21:24, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  There's no mention of production information for this, especially for creature design.  The director has called this a personal project of his after his commercial releases, but there's no mention of that here.  I think there's a lot of information that could be included in this article. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 23:13, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree --Beanssnaeb 17:25, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, it could mainly do with a Production section, more information on Cast (which I'm working on), and an expanded Synopsis. There's work to do, but an abundance of sources online. Trebor 18:40, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

text: When you go see it, could you make notes on the plot and put them in the article ;-) It's a great film, but ain't half confusing in places. Trebor 18:54, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revisions 

message: Removed. Needs references before it can be put back in. Looked like a large strings of original research. --Beanssnaeb 03:36, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You should tell the editor directly on his/her user talk page.  Don't have to report every content dispute here. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 03:44, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair enough. I did so in case there would be contributors who would like to dispute it so everyone can read but I'll be sure to contact the editor directly from here on in. --Beanssnaeb 15:45, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Allegory 

message: :Citation for use. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 22:40, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Interview with Guillermo del Toro 

message: :I cleaned up and rewrote a little of the plot. I have also removed the cleanup tag because I think you all have done a great job with summing up the plot. --Beanssnaeb 02:35, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the plot is quite well described. However, I don't think that Pan is the character's actual name, it only appears in the English-language title (see the discussion above about Pan vs. faun and the English title of the film). Also, should there be more mention of the 'reality' side of the plot (the conflicts between the rebels and the Republicans, the conflict between Ofelia and the Captain)?69.95.232.127 21:38, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree with not using PAN, i thought i removed all references during my last edit. --Beanssnaeb 03:13, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

text: In reference to the last edit, please NO ORIGINAL RESEARCH OR plot analysis. Only verifible information pertinent to the plot should be in the plot section. Also, does anyone else think the plot length should be reduced. --Beanssnaeb 03:17, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I edited the plot summary to shorten it; it was way too long. I wish we could mention the film's ambiguity, though. --Jitterro 22:05, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plot 

message: I just saw this movie last night. Was the Pale Man ever actually named as such in the movie? I don't recall it. (Though I did watch the English subtitled version and don't speak Spanish.) --Fang Aili talk 16:40, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, the name wasn't mentioned anywhere in the movie.  If you think about it though, a lot of characters' names aren't mentioned in a lot movies, but the fans find out the names from websites or interviews.  Take Star Wars--the fans know Aayla Secura's name, but I don't think it is ever mentioned in the movie.  --Arwen undomiel 01:04, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Uhh... I watched this a couple weeks ago, and the faun most certainly did mention the Pale Man by name.--24.22.147.202 04:32, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Where?  I didn't hear it.  Arwen undomiel 01:44, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Pale Man 

message: I get it.  Someone still needs to go through and fix several typos.  Tyner Tinsley 04:30, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  OK , No Original Research 

message: In the  plot section, it says that Vidal tortured and killed Pedro. THIS IS TOTALLY FALSE! Pedro is alive and Mercedes meets back up with him towards the end when the rebels save her in the woods. THE STUTTERING REBEL was the one who was tortured and killed. I cant believe how wrong the person was who wrote that. Did they even see the movie?! Vidal made that whole seen where he said the stuttering rebel could leave if he could count to three! That, and Pedro and the suttering rebel look nothing alike. SOMEONE PLEASE FIX THIS RIGHT AWAY! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 161.38.223.243 (talk) 04:24, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for your suggestion! When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes.  Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the  link at the top. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to).  The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes — they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills.  New contributors are always welcome. Trebor 11:57, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  INCORRECT NAME IN PLOT SECTION 

message: Could some please add this to the Surreal Film category?  Also it may be considered a cult film, to be out for such a short time it's garnered a big folowing. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.63.204.126 (talk) 09:10, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The film isn't surreal, nor is it a cult film, in that its appreciative audience is rather large. And for the record, it isn't a horror film either. --Yath 06:32, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Surreal Film 

message: The dvd is due to be released on May 15. I dont see why this shouldnt be included.
:need a reference, and if it there is one where it has been officially announced by a reputable place, there should be a DVD section created as well. --Beanssnaeb 04:29, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have a copy of the UK DVD in my posession, so I have confirmed that the list of special features is correct.  Also changed 'Trailers' plural to 'Trailer' singular as there's only one.  Not sure if this needs a citation, but the citation would be the DVD itself obviously. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Liquidcow (talk • contribs) 14:00, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  DVD 

message: (2-23-07)
I think that the pale man is hilter because he killed so many women and children.
I think this because in the movie you see a big pile of children's shoes and on the mural you see him eating the children(killing)
§65.37.105.122 18:27, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Pale Man 

message: "Some of the works he drew on for inspiration include Jorge Luis Borges' Labyrinths". I'd like  to know very much which work of Borges this Labyrinths is. I maybe wrong, but I don't remember any book of his with that title. Unless it is a poem (pretty sure it can't be a tale)... Nazroon 10:17, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: [] is not a poem or a story, but rather a collection. Arsonal 17:26, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Borges' influence? 

message: Isn't this bit of info:
"At the 79th annual Academy Awards on February 26, 2007, Pan's Labyrinth was nominated for six Oscars and ultimately took home three: Achievement in Art Direction, Achievement in Cinematography, and Achievement in Makeup."
redundant with the whole Awards section? Wich one should we leave? Vicco Lizcano 18:55, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Since no one ojected, I'm going to remove the bit in Reception as it was the latest added and I've seen list of awards in other film articles. besides, it already mentions that it's an award winning movie in the first paragraph. I liked the reference, tough. 
Here's what I'm deleting:
At the 79th annual Academy Awards on February 26, 2007, Pan's Labyrinth was nominated for six Oscars and ultimately took home three: Achievement in Art Direction, Achievement in Cinematography, and Achievement in Makeup.
Vicco Lizcano 23:06, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Awards info redundant? 

message: This may qualify as my own research.  But the similarities are too striking to disregard between the story of Abraham and Issac, and Pan and Ofelia.  It touches on this very controversial story, one that is an extremely controversial topic in ethics, and it really does deserve at least a mention of the biblical narrative and a link to the topic in general.  If someone wants to re-write what I did, that would be fine.--66.117.174.98 16:26, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, this counts as original research. It is your opinion that the similarities are striking; others might disagree. It only belongs here if you can find a published source saying the same thing. Cop 633 17:33, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry to disappoint you, but this is a blog, and they don't count as reliable sources. We only include interpretations that have been through proper publication with an editing process, i.e. newspapers and magazines. Anyone can write a blog, press a button, and have the world see it, and we can't include everyone's opinion. Cop 633 00:07, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Biblical Similarities

message: I reverted to an older version because someone deleted another user's comments, I don't think that's right. No matter how dumb or out of place their comments be. There mus be some Wiki Policy to back this up. Vicco Lizcano 23:57, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reverted deletion of another user's comments 

message: Is this sentence: (remember the labyrinth image on Hellboy?) in the Influences section a quote? if so, there should be a citation, or else it should be deleted as it seems very un-encyclopedic.
Vicco Lizcano 17:41, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Influences 

message: I have condensed the awards section as well as moved the soundtrack to a new article. if there are any concerns or issues please discuss them here. --Beanssnaeb 04:16, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Changes 

message: Am I the only one who thinks it was compleatly unecesary? I no way it is neccesary as a plto the device and the knife that she gets wasen't even needed to draw the blood (it was later drawned from the gun). I'm thinking this is a mayor plot hole and should this be in the article, but i didn't want to do it right away without discussion because altough i think this is an accurate statement it's an observation made by me alone. Any comments?Nnfolz 05:39, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The task had more to do with Ofelia proving who she was than any inherent importance of the dagger.  The dagger, and by extension, the key, were not that important by themselves.  The important thing was seeing if Ofelia could get them.  Geoff B 06:26, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The whole second test thing?

message: How could Pan's Labyrinth, a movie that was premiered in may of 2006 have been compared to Bridge to Terabithia, a film that was released in february 2007? WookMuff 11:07, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not defending that section (I think it should be set on fire before it spawns), but a comparison between films can take place at any time.  Obviously, there was at some point a comparison made between the two films, just not before BtT was released.  Geoff B 12:26, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, ok. I think I misunderstood, and thought people were comparing them in a negative light, like saying that PL is copying BtT and I thought that was silly. I guess a comparison can work both ways. WookMuff 23:50, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comparisons to other films 

message: It is hinted at during the film that the fantasy world Ofelia enters is, on her part, a hallucination designed to escape from the world of violence from which she comes.
Several hints throughout the film include the fact that Vidal cannot see the Faun when he enters the labyrinth, and that Ofelia is still alive when she sees herself reunited with her family in the underworld.
However, some things contradict this, in that Ofelia would not have been able to escape the room where Vidal has men guard the entrance and tells them to kill her if she leaves, if it weren't for the chalk which can cut through walls that the Faun gave her. 
There is a great deal of controversy and discussion among fans regarding this theory.
All this seems like OR and/or POV. I suggest we delete it or if you think it should stay, you can state your reasons here.Vicco Lizcano 14:32, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It should be deleted, unless sources can be found on the matter.  There is no controversy, but there is discussion.  Geoff B 14:56, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hallucination OR theory 

message: Do we know how much money it took on release? Mindstar 17:53, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Box Office Mojo. —Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 17:55, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Does box office info go in the infobox?  I thought it went into the 'Reception' section.  Geoff B 17:59, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Box Office

message: does this come in an english translation version other than in sub titled form? i mean i watched the spanish version with the english sub title and enjoyed it very much but i could have gotten more if i didnt have to read and could just watch the movie.
mike
::You mean dubbing? Dubbing is very rare nowadays, foreign films are almost always subtitled so it's unlikely. Cop 633 00:18, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  does this come in an english translation version other than in sub titled form?