Talk:Nauvoo Legion

message: The Article Ghost Dance seems to imply that Ghost Dance proper didn't start until 1889. What gives? -- 85.179.175.225 21:52, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  1870 Ghost Dance ?? 

message: I edited it to say that the elements of Iron County's existing command structure took the extra-legal actions of (/formed a renegade mob that perpetrated) the Mountain Meadows Massacre. --Justmeherenow 05:09, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "Former members of Legion" misleading, so...

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018) 

message: I think the introduction should be rewored or completely redone. Here is a example: LuxembourgLover (talk) 18:35, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: The Nauvoo Legion, a collective term for various military units within the U.S. armed forces, functioned from 1841 to 1887. Initially established on February 4, 1841, it served as the city militia for Nauvoo, Illinois, until January 1845. Evolving over time, it took on diverse roles, including serving as the Mormon militia for the LDS Church, the militia for the State of Deseret, and later rejoining federal service as the Utah Territorial Militia. LuxembourgLover (talk) 18:39, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text:  We need to be careful. On Wikipedia (see WP:LDSMOS), LDS Church refers exclusively to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the Brighamite branch, as it is sometimes referred to). After the death of Joseph Smith, the Latter Day Saint movement fragmented. We can't use the term "LDS Church". This is one of the reasons why I think we should split the article. Joseph Smith III was a huge fan of the Nauvoo Legion, but the Utah Territorial Militia he was not a fan of. Keeping them combined is centric to the Brighamite branch of the Latter Day Saint Movement. Epachamo (talk) 23:13, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we could just use Latter Day Saints. The main branch, The church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints was the main owner(?) operator (?) of the units. Brigium young used the militia during the Utah War.  LuxembourgLover (talk) 16:58, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: This is not POV. To even say "the main branch" is pretty offensive to some people even today. I'd also argue that it is historically inaccurate to the 1850s. While TODAY you could make the argument that it is "the main branch", in 1850 there were 11,800 people in Utah. By contrast, there were around 12,000 followers of James Strang at its peak. Strangites also called themselves, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Strang's group even had a militia with cannons and guns that would drill. They even fired their cannons at would be attackers at one point. At least some of the members of Strang's group had been members of prior Latter Day Saint militias (including, for a time, the original leading General of the Nauvoo Legion, John C. Bennett) . (see book 'God has made us a kingdom': James Strang and the Midwest Mormons). Epachamo (talk) 22:09, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

text: I assume LuxembourgLover has sources to prove his claim? The Banner talk 23:36, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, also note the source is important for the discussion above.  LuxembourgLover (talk) 02:49, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: As expected, the source does not say what you claim. It is also not an independent source. On the positive side, it is helpful for creating the navigation template.The Banner talk 09:31, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I may be reading it wrong but in the source it says: "Provisional State of Deseret and the Territory of Utah law. True to their heritage, they called themselves the Nauvoo Legion.: Also it says "Two cavalry units of the Nauvoo Legion were given federal duty during the Civil War in 1862 to guard the mail and freight routes from Independence Rock to Salt Lake City." Am I reading it wrong?  LuxembourgLover (talk) 23:02, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, sharing a heritage is not the same as being the same unit. The Banner talk 23:52, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: It was still called the Nauvoo Legion  per this source. Directly from the source “A heritage of the Mormon settlers' time in Illinois, the Nauvoo Legion was designated to serve as the territorial militia in the 1851 Laws of Utah. LuxembourgLover (talk) 16:56, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: First Army. Same name, not identical entities. The Banner talk 18:56, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, so we should clanged the introduction to say that thee Nauvoo Legion was the name of multiple military units. We should also split the articles. LuxembourgLover (talk) 22:26, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text:  No, I don't think we should change the introduction. If you were to mention the "Nauvoo Legion" without qualifier to any historian or lay person, 99 times out of 100 they would immediately think of the Nauvoo Illinois militia. Whenever the Nauvoo Legion is mentioned in scholarly literature, a qualifier is added when referring to the Utah Territorial Militia. I do think it would be appropriate at the end of this article to discuss how many members of the legion went on to serve in other Mormon Militias (Mormon Battalion, Utah Territorial Milita, Deseret Militia, Strang Militia), and it is very appropriate in the Utah Territorial Militia page to devote sentences explaining that they referred to themselves as the Nauvoo Legion. Epachamo (talk) 05:14, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah I think a split was a better idea.  LuxembourgLover (talk) 16:22, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Introduction  

message: tl;dr I have a hunch there is more to this research thread, I just don't know enough to know what to look for. If you know lots about 19th century military practices and are interested, this is for you.
"On February 8, 1841, in accordance with the city charter, the Nauvoo City Council further expanded the executive power of the court martial to internally nominate officers for original commissions and promotions at a municipal level."
From what I can tell the appointments and nominations process was 1) different from contemporary practice and 2) a point of criticism for why the Legion was overpowered. I don't know enough about court martial practices, 19th century militia appointments, or the Nauvoo Legion appointment process to know what to look for to know why this was controversial at the time. The brevet appointments seem standard for a militia bordering the frontier (if not bloated in the Nauvoo Legion).
Anyway, I'm setting this trail aside for now to work on other things. I'm putting the research questions "How were the Nauvoo Legion appointments and nominations different from other militias and why did that garner criticism?" out here on the talk page so if someone who knows more wants to pick it up, they can. Happy research! AIJFMM (talk) 22:06, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Legion appointments and elections