Talk:W. H. R. Rivers

message: Was the expedition to the Torres Strait Islands? John Vandenberg 22:19, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Torres Straits expedition 

message: It appears that the J.M Wilson is Jean Moorcroft Wilson, however the article text implies that Wilson is a male:  "...J.M Wilson picks up on in his Biography of Sassoon...". John Vandenberg 05:58, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wilson 

message: I'm rating this a B because I can't go higher without a Good Article review, but I'd say this is definitely a GA and quite possibly a featured article. Fascinating subject. --Bookworm857158367 23:45, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "Good article review" is a peer review process for an article to become classified as a Wikipedia:Good articles and go on to become Wikipedia:Featured articles. The review will bring a lot of additional idea's to the editing table really quickly in order to determine what needs to be done before the article can be considered one of our finest.  Like Bookworm857158367, I think this article is pretty darn good.  If you like, I would be happy to kick off the review process.  On the other hand, if you want to keep tweaking the article by yourself, that's fine too. John Vandenberg 11:45, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Rating

message: John, I am an idiot. I can't for the life of me remember how to do references and I know if I try then I'll, to use the pidgin, 'bagarup' it. I've put the source details in brackets where you've stated citation is needed- if you could format for me that would be wonderful. Also, if there are any more that need to be put in can you point me in their direction- thank you --Pudupudu 23:52, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've tidied up the references  and added a few more  tags.  Enjoy. John Vandenberg 00:06, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I've cleaned up the ones that were ungainly; the other few that are still in bold are fine the way they are as the bold bit belongs in the prose.  I've added a few more  but there is another set that need work: all of the quotes in the section "Others' Opinions of Rivers" have give clues as to who said what, but more information about each quote is needed in order for the average reader to be able to figure it out. John Vandenberg 23:10, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

text: No need to panic; just keep having fun and learning.  Keep in mind that Rivers wrote his encyclopaedic article on psycho-therapeutics when he was 54, yet you are learning the write to the same level of quality in your late teens.  You might like to read this BBC article about a UK university where where "Students have to edit eight articles on the online encyclopedia and then write their own article for the site."  You are already doing that now! John Vandenberg 01:51, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

text: That was enough.  I think you have sufficiently demonstrated that the information in the article is verifiable, so I've gone ahead and nominated the article to be reviewed under the category "Medicine" for want of a better category; "Military" could have worked just as well but I could only pick one.  We can still improve the article with more citations and tidbits however one of the criteria is that the article must remain "stable".  i.e. we cant drastically re-arrange things now.  John Vandenberg 14:44, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: References

message: If you dont know about it already, WorldCat is one of the worlds largest repositories of meta data for published items.  All of the citation data that I have added so far has come straight from there using the clues you have given :-). John Vandenberg 01:51, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: WorldCat

message: Here is a more hairy and interesting case:
Entry on psycho-therapeutics in volume 10 of the 'Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics' (1918)
Take a look at http://worldcat.org/search?q=Encyclopedia+of+Religion+and+Ethics .  As you can see, there are a few listed items that are similar; if you click on the first entry, and click "Editions", you should arrive at this page http://worldcat.org/oclc/11054502?tab=editions.  I havent been able to find any edition that was published in 1918.  My initial guess is that it was published as per the details in  (1917), but this is probably a question best raised with a librarian so you can actually pull out the book and check the entry is in there. Also note that  is a recent publication of this title, so it will be much more accessible to people, and would probably have a page at the front of the book providing details about the previous publications.  Now if you head over to http://books.google.com/ and type in "Encyclopedia of religion and ethics" "psycho-therapeutics" rivers you can see the book   lists Rivers as the author of the "psycho-therapeutics" entry:
 RIVERS, (W.H.R.) M.A., M.D., F.R.S., F.R.C.P.,
 Fellow of St. John's College, Cambridge;
 President of the Anthropological Section
 of the British Association, 1911, author of
 ....
So, now we know for certain that we have found the right book.  We still dont know when his entry was first published :-)  John Vandenberg 01:51, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics

message: I'm venturing to the museum and to Cambridge in the next few months to search out some more Rivers-related material. I will, of course, put the information I find on here but what is the policy for citing primary sources such as these?--Pudupudu 09:57, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no problem including primary sources once the article has been primarily backed up by secondary sources.  Just keep a record of any way you can identify the material.  For the museum, take photographs of any item that is relevant if they permit camera's and be sure to take notes on the dates of the items exhibited.  Most of the items of this period with either not be under copyright, or the copyright will be expiring soon.  We can tackle them one by one.
In Cambridge, the best thing to do will be talk to the librarian about what you are doing, and why you want the information and images.  I suggest that you print out this article and take it with you so they can see the quality of the article to demonstrate that this isnt a silly request.  Mention that you want to release the image under the GNU Free Documentation License for use on Wikipedia.  They love hairy questions like that and will do far better at answering them then I could.  If in the strange event that they are unhelpful, grab anything you can and we can worry about the legalese on a case by case basis. John Vandenberg 12:02, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Imperial War Museum

message: Hi Pudupudu,
Great to see your work on this page. I worked on an early version and wrote the Spanish language article, so it's fantastic to see it grow so comprehensively, especially with all the research you've been doing. I work at the Institute of Psychiatry (Maudsley Hospital) in London, so if I can be of help providing any information, do let me know.
- Vaughan 11:40, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rivers information 

message: Where's this poem run off to? I would put it onto Wikiquote myself but I fear you've probably put it somewhere already, I just can't find it --Pudupudu 10:53, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's on Wikisource, where it now has its own article: s:To a Very Wise Man  John Vandenberg 10:57, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, I forgot to link to it.  I've done that now.  "Revisitation" is a bit more complicated, as I think there are copyright issues.  Do you recall where you found that poem?  A bit of discussion about this poem can be found at s:Talk:Siegfried Sassoon.  John Vandenberg 11:16, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

text: My mistake.  I've added a redirect over on wikisource to fix the problem. John Vandenberg 11:30, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

text: You should add him to March 12#Births; he is already on June 4#Deaths John Vandenberg 11:44, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: To a Very Wise Man

message: In my travels, I ran into another obituary that may be of use. John Vandenberg 12:40, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortunately, I can't view it. There is supposed to be a 'brilliant' one (if indeed you can describe an obituary thus) in 'Man' magazine by Barlett and Haddon- unfortunately, I can't access JSTOR files when not at Oxford so this might prove a problem at the moment. If you, or anyone, CAN access these files and would like to put the information on the site (or send it to me... or whatever) then PLEASE do. Merci --Pudupudu 14:42, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I dont have JSTOR access set up, but the first page of the obituary is visible. John Vandenberg 21:26, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Obituaries 

message: I have put 'On The Repression of War Experience' on Wikisource and also added links to all the other published works that I know of for us to add to whenever we can. Hope I did it right! --Pudupudu 15:19, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice work.  It is probably worth your while to create a "Pudupudu" account on wikisource and wikiquote so other people can identify your modifications.  We need to be careful over on wikisource to not upload copyright material.  I have posted a question about Bartlet's obituary.  The same issues apply to s:On The Repression of War Experience, because it was published by a journal/magazine. John Vandenberg 21:26, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Wikisource

message: Yes, I know I'm insane but I just had to wish Will a very happy 143 birthday (it seems he's still around to be wished happy birthday to- there are reports of his 'spirit'- it seems he prefers this term to 'ghost'- haunting St. John's College; I will have to test this theory out in the summer). Anyway, I feel I've got to know this man very well in the past few months and would like to thank him for being so interesting and inspirational. There we go *blushes*--Pudupudu 15:27, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Happy Birthday!

message: The prose needs a major overhaul. As I look at it initially, the cquote template is overused way too much. Makes it very difficult to read.
The organization seems ok, but I'd add a section on 'early life' before 'pre-war', and move some of the early stuff there. It seems like the 'pre-war' section is just too long. The 'Others' Opinions of Rivers' doesn't seem to make much sense, as (again) it's mostly quotes. I think this section could be eliminated and parts moved into the main biography section.
I'd move 'published works' to just before the 'references' section, since it's mainly just a list of what he wrote. It would help if more of these books/sources had ISBN numbers attached to them, for easier finding in libraries. Some of the material in the 'in fiction' section should probably be moved to the wikipedia articles on his books and eliminated from this article (see the article on Ann Coulter for how wikipedia treats her books).
There seems to be a tad too many external links at the end. Some of these should become references to material in the article, some could be eliminated, and the whole section would be better organized. Also, as many quotes as there are in the article, it's surprising that the wikiquote link here only refers to quotes related to one of his books!
As a minor issue, editors might also find it helpful to review WP:CITE for information on how to format references. Several citations only include URLs and titles. These citations should ideally contain author information, who published the source, when it was published, when the URL was last retrieved, etc. This is to insure that the citation is still useful if the URL is no longer accessible.
Hope this helps! Good luck! Dr. Cash 00:35, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: GA review

message: I decided to create an article which Wikipedia sorely needed  - one on cross-cultural psychology  - and put in reference to Rivers in this article. ACEOREVIVED 19:36, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Cross-cultural psychology

message: I have never understood why two nerves were severed. An explanation would be a worthwhile addition to this article.RayJohnstone (talk) 09:01, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Experiments with Henry Head 

message: I'm making my slow way through Rivers's works and typing them up onto wikisource as I come to them but if anyone has any requests for articles they would particularly like to read then I will do my best to get them up first. --Pudupudu (talk) 23:53, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Biblography requests

message: The article section "Early Life" currently says that Slobodin states that it is probable that the second 'Rivers' entered his name as a result of a clerical error, yet then says that Slobodin is probably incorrect based on "original research".
The way to avoid the "original research" is to present the facts as facts, and then present Slobodin's opinion after it.  i.e. document what can be found in the various primary sources, without providing and opinion on them, and then give Slobodin's opinion.  It is quite possible that Slobodin knew all of these facts, yet still thought it was (initially) a clerical error. John Vandenberg (chat) 13:28, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Rivers Rivers" 

message: I have changes above; I do not know if this will be challenged or not. If no challenges come in, I promise I will do the relinks. Þjóðólfr (talk) 14:24, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  As the person who has written this article almost exclusively, might I request that you change it back to W.H.R Rivers? This is how he referred to himself and how he was known (and I ought to know, having been researching the man for the past 5 years. Thank you --Pudupudu (talk) 16:47, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

text: My rationale is that the first time that I ever heard of Rivers (Light Fantastic); he was referred to as William Rivers. PD James for instance is always referred to by her initials, even on TV. My view is that W.H.R. Rivers is neither easy on the eye nor does it roll off the tongue. Frankly I think this guy should be better known but I doubt that will happen if he is marketed so badly by his biographer. Þjóðólfr (talk) 20:48, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually I must have heard of him before as I have seen Regeneration - here he is Capt. William Rivers. Þjóðólfr (talk) 21:12, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

text: I don't think usage on recent TV shows or movies should decide this--that's hardly encyclopaedic. There's a difference between the names people are called, which is determined by the relationship between the two speakers (e.g. in Regeneration it's all just 'Rivers' and 'Sassoon', in the manner of men of the time), and the names people are referred to by. In his professional life he went by W.H.R. Rivers, in the same way as J.R.R. Tolkien, H.G. Wells and many others. Anyway, I hope you'll hold off relinking everything until some more people have expressed an opinion. Cheers, Ngio (talk) 21:14, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: WHR to William Rivers

message: In ,  changes the reference used to support Pat Barker having made suppositions about Rivers' veiled memory.  This was originally added by Pudupudu without a reference.  A reference for the last sentence in the paragraph was added latter by Pudupudu, and I suspect that the anon has made this most recent change because they assume that this reference applies to the first sentence.  We'll need to check the sources and add a reference for the first sentence. John Vandenberg (chat) 10:58, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  veiled memory supposition put forward by Pat Barker 

message: After much concentration on his work at Craiglockhart with the RAMC, one then abruptly reads a new academic post was created for him after "returning from the Royal Flying Corps (sic) in 1919".  When did he leave Craiglockhart and enter the air force (which may have been the Royal Flying Corps pre 1 April 1918)?Cloptonson (talk) 20:16, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Service with Royal Air Force - more detail welcome

message: The location of his ashes has just been brought to the attention of Ben Shephard, the author of "Headhunters: The Pioneers of Neuroscience" (2014); remarkably WHRR had a fully-fledged grave and gravestone (celtic cross) in the Parish of the Ascension Burial Ground in Cambridge! This good article is remarkable for its sheer length?
195.194.238.104 (talk) 13:57, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cremation and Interment 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on W. H. R. Rivers. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070809090447/http://www.therai.org.uk/honours/honours.html to http://www.therai.org.uk/honours/honours.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: After the first sentence of the entry, with Rivers' date of birth, etc., the entirety of the first section on family background doesn't seem to fit this entry.  Are any of these family members significant enough to warrant their own entries elsewhere in the wikipedia?  It just seems like a lot of clutter, especially at the beginning of what should be a biographical entry on WHR Rivers, rather than the River / Hunt family / rivalry, etc.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.21.211.223 (talk) 20:38, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too much family background?