Talk:Yugi Mutou

message: Who put Yugi's age at 11? It was made clear he was at high school age at the beginning of the manga. He is just a very short teenager. Actually, the entire age thing is totally wrong. To my knowledge the amount of years between YGO! and YGO! GX has not been stated. 
02:42, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Yugi's Age

message: Does this kid have parents? And if not, what happened to them? 71.251.47.141 01:41, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think they where ededted out in the dub Dark spikey 20:43, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Family

message: I took some time to cleanup the following area.  I tried to include cards that have been played more than once, namely in important duels according to what has been shown on the show.  Please, feel free to cleanup and edit accordingly.  Just trying my best to make sure that it is easy to read and understand. - DrachenFyre 02:26, May 18, 2005 (UTC)
* There is one thing I'm adding. Yugi uses Anthrosaurus and Basic Insect in first first deck, we see them in his hand in Episode 13. Granted, he doesn't actually play them (as it has been noted), but he never plays Winged Kuriboh either, and that's on the list, isn't it? 
Okay, supposedly when his deck gets stolen in Yugioh GX, it has Dark Magician of Chaos and Black Luster Soldier- Envoy of the Beginning. Should those cards be added?User: Drake Clawfang, April 24 2006, 9:57 PM EST
I believe, personally, that we shouldn't list EVERY SINGLE CARD shown (played or not) for all the characters.  These massive lists clutter up the article.  I really believe that it should be culled for cards that are important to the storylines, i.e. Kuriboh and Multiply...Magical Hats and Dark Magician (naturally)...Spellbinding Circle and Book of Secret Arts.  Honestly. - The One and Only 02:20, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not a card in his deck. Geg 16:12, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable Dueling Cards 

message: Well, the second's more of a theory than an essay. Now that the dub name has been revealed, the Atem/Atemu controversy has been sparked up again, and with it, sufficiant evidence for the name "Atemu" being a mere case of Engrish. The first was written by Toboe LoneWolf of Janime's forum and the second was written by myself. Here's the original thread: http://janime.netzgames.net/showthread.php?t=8374
Toboe LoneWolf
"So, the ever so famous Atem vs. Atemu debate.
I, here and now, will use "Atem" until the English manga comes out or until some Japanese, Egyptian, and English fluent person translates the pertinent chapter. This is because Takahashi screwed up royally using hieroglyphs for the Pharaoh's name. Yes, he does make mistakes. So, since he can't write in hieroglyphs and in proper ancient Egyptian context, I will use Takahashi's native language's pronunciation, which is "Atem." I do this in protest because of his disrespect for this ancient language.
If you're going to take Takahashi's hieroglyphs over Takahashi's Japanese (his native language), the hieroglyphs and the culture behind it should be flawless. Unfortunately, Takahashi has made some mistakes. Because of these mistakes, Takahashi's hieroglyphic rendering of the Pharaoh's name is not credible.
Theoretically one could excuse Takahashi's numerous mistakes. But to write in ignorance of this ancient language is disrespectful. The culture behind hieroglyphs is practically sacred and holy; the scribe was revered in Egypt. To mess up the writing is definitely unacceptable.
Pictures of Takahashi's writing of Yami's past name:
http://www.janime.biz/manga/manga/333/05.jpg
http://www.janime.biz/manga/manga/333/07.jpg
Now, I fight from the pronunciation standpoint. If you wish to debate over the actual lettering, forget this.
The Pharaoh's name written in Japanese is the katakana form, in which you cannot end any word in a consonant except for "n." In katakana, Takahashi wrote "Atemu," which in Japanese is pronounced as "Atem."
Now, as for Takahashi's hieroglyphic writing of the Pharaoh's name, Takahashi wrote [vulture][loaf of bread][single reed][owl][quail chick]. This is commonly (and incorrectly) translated as "[A][T][E][M][u]."
Many people have pointed their fingers at the quail chick, which is pronounced as a "oo" or "u," and say "HA! SEE! IT'S A 'U!' IT HAS TO BE ATEMU!"
First mistake: incorrect number of names. Pharaohs (by the 5th dynasty) actually had five names: the Horus Name, the Nebti (Two Ladies) name, the golden Horus name, the prenomen (throne name), and the nomen (birth name). Each was preceded by a glyph telling the reader which name it was. (See below for links about Pharaoh's names.)
Which name is Atem/Atemu? It could be the birthname, being that it is in a cartouche and does not have "Ra" in it; but Takahashi forgot to precede with "sa Ra" or "son of Ra" to denote this. Also, the nomen is simply the birth name; it was the prenomen that was predominately used in most affairs as king and Pharaoh. Each name is important and has religious and cultural significance; for Takahashi to not name them (especially since this is the first time it's being told to us) is culturally wrong. (Unless Takahashi's going to write a whole new series of the Pharaoh searching for the other four names...)
Second mistake: use of vowels. Egyptians did not write vowels. The fact that Takahashi tried writing them is wrong. The use of "vowels" in hieroglyphic writing came during the Greek conquest when Egyptians would translate Greek names such as "Ptolemy" or "Cleopatra" into Egyptian pronunciation. Since the Pharaoh is definitely not Greek and is also in the 18th dynasty as stated by Takahashi, the Pharaoh cannot have "vowels" in his name. All hieroglyphs are consonants; although the reed is transliterated as "i" it is a consonant, not a vowel. The "a," the "e," and the "u" should not even be in the hieroglyphic writing of the Pharaoh's name. It is said that the arabic language today only writes down consonants as well, except for long vowels. One could argue that the "a" and the "u" are like consonants, in that they are long vowels, but the "e" is most certainly not.
Third mistake: the single reed as "e." In all of my Egyptian books, I have never come across the connection that the single reed is a "e." Every single book I've read has told me it is an "i," pronounced as "ee." The "e" in the name Atem/Atemu has an "eh" sound to it-- not "ee." Only in a children's book have I seen a double reed as an "e." Since children's books are not reliable and tend to oversimplify, Takahashi has made yet another mistake.
Fourth mistake: the "a," or [vulture]. In children's books, I have seen the [vulture] translated into "A." However, this is wrong. Literally, the transliteration symbol for the vulture is "3" and its true pronunciation is a glottal stop. This is a brief closing of the windpipe, like a little cough. For example, the English Cockney pronunciation of "t" in "little bottle" -- kind of like "li'le bo'le."
There are actually two glyphs for the sound of "a" -- the vulture and the forearm, transliteration symbols 3 and 9, respectively. The forearm's pronunciation is the arabic 'ayn, or guttural "ah." The 3 (vulture) is a softer or higher sound while the 9 (forearm) is a louder and lower "A." The 3, in order to get a strong "ah" sound, often needs another hieroglyph next to it, with the transliteration symbol h. The 9 can stand by itself.
Now, the names of Atem/Atemu require a strong "A" sound, not a muted/softer one. This requires the forearm, not the vulture. If Takahashi wanted to use the vulture, he needs to put another glyph. In some textbooks the Egyptian names of Anubis, Amun, Atum, and Aten are transliterated as inpw, imn, itm, and itn, respectively. In other textbooks, for ease of understanding, these names are transliterated as 9inpw, 9imn, 9itm, and 9itn, respectively. Either way, they definitely do not use 3.
If one were to transliterate what Takahashi wrote, it would be [3timw]. My guess at pronunciation would be "At-ee-moo." If one were to pronounce the "3" as an "A" as tradition holds you to, it would be "Atimu" or "Ah-tee-moo" or possibly "Aa-tee-moo" which has no significant cultural meaning (unlike Atem/Atemu) and is just plain weird. And besides, the "Atimu" pronunciation is different from the "Atemu" pronunciation in katakana. Though if you want to use it, go right on ahead...
Now, as for some other debateable aspects of the Pharaoh's name... the "backing" for it. Both names point to the same primevoral god -- along with Temu, Tem, Tum, among others (because Egyptians didn't write vowels in hieroglyphics, combinations can be interesting...). If one were to type in the name "Atem" into some search engine on the internet, minus all YGO references, one gets links to various egyptology sites. However, if one were to do the same with Atemu, minus all YGO references, one mainly gets links to William Budge's translations and baby name sites. I would not trust baby name sites on ancient egyptian names. As for Budge's translation of "The Book of the Dead," there's debate in egyptology circles on Budge's translations (usually a Budge vs. Faulkner comparison).
As implied in the previous paragraph, "The Book of the Dead" (actually called Coming Forth by Day by Egyptians) mentions the god Atem/Atemu. Therefore meaning the hieroglyphs for Atem/Atemu are written down. Now, transliteration and translation of these hieroglyphs are your own study. I personally do not have a copy of all the hieroglyphs in Coming Forth by Day. I believe Budge's does, or at least some, and his work is on the web. (This is what the search for "Atemu" comes up with.) However, according to a YGO website, [shown below] the hieroglyphs in Coming Forth by Day for Atem/Atemu are not what Takahashi has written. If indeed, Takahashi meant to refer to this god, then he made a very bad mistake.
So that's it. Basically, "Atemu" was what Takahashi meant to write but messed up. I suppose that one can forgive Takahashi and say he meant to use Atemu, so use it; but for those that actually take the time and effort to learn this ancient language, in protest, use Atem.
*deep breath* So there you have it. Why I use "Atem" and why you should not take Egyptian hieroglyphs so literally from some kid that read the children's book on Egyptian hieroglyphs."
Me (Madness)
"Okay, I think I've figured out something. I have my own theory on why he should be called "Atem" and not "Atemu". This is, of course, speculation, but if you simply look at it objectively, everything makes perfect logical sense. This involves my previous theory about Takahashi's poor English skills and Toboe's essay about the inaccuracies of the hieroglyphics on the katakana. It's kind of an extention of it. Toboe's was an explanation on why the hieroglyphs are unreliable, and mine's an explanation on why "Atem" is the better name. And I'm not meaning to disrespect or blame him or anything, I'm just looking at, based on pure logic, is probably what happened here.
There are obviously information sites on Ancient Egypt that are fully in Japanese. Since Takahashi can't speak or read English well, he probably gets all his info from Japanese sources with no English or romanji in it. That that would be where he gets all his info from, including the Egyptian names themselves. So here it is: What if he never intended it to be Atem or Atemu, but simply アテム? Just think about it. If he really does get all his Egypt info from a single Japanese site, he'd probably never even seen the name written out in English. Given this, it's entirely possible that he never even considered what the name would be spelled like in English. Because of this, when translating the name to put it on the cartouche, he directly translates the katakana "アテム" into the romanji "a-te-mu" and then translates that into hieroglyphics using his "children's book" (or whatever). This, coupled with Toboe's essay, is why the cartouche can't be trusted when trying to translate his name into English. The only things left are the phonetic pronounciation and the history of the names "Atem" and "Atemu". Simply looking at the pronounciation and the Japanese phonetic system, it's obvious it should be Atem, unless you want to revert to calling Malik "Mariku" and Pegasus "Pegasasu". As for the actual history and significance of the two names, like Toboe said, the only times you'll see the name Atemu in an actual historical context is in William Budge's translations of the Book of the Dead. Which, as Toboe said, is being debated. So, let's look at what we have here. We have Katakashi, who intended for the Pharaoh's name to be "アテム" and, according to my theory, didn't even think about what it would look like in English. We have extremely unreliable hieroglyphics stating "3timw". And we have William Budge using the name "Atemu" as a variant for Atum compared to pretty much all the other translators who don't even give the name "Atemu" a mention when talking about variants of the name "Atum" and almost always mention "Atem" as one.
So here's my theory in summary: The only name Takahashi really intended was アテム. All of the research he did was on Japanese sites or text. If he had done any research in English, he definitely would have seen the name "Atem" much more often than "Atemu". Most of the support for the name Atemu comes from the 5 characters on the cartouche, but the simple fact is that, no matter how you look at it, the hieroglyphs on the cartouche are inaccurate and unreliable. I'm not trying to state any of this as fact. It's just a theorized explanation for why "Atemu" (or 3timw) was written on the cartouche."
That's basically all the arguements for why the name should be romanized as Atem instead of Atem summed up in an essay and an essay-ish theory. Geg 23:30, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Two essays on the Pharaoh's name 

message: Where are the God Cards at the time of Yugioh GX? Are they still in Yugi's deck, or did they vanish when Atemu went to the afterlife? I remember in the English anime when Yugi's deck was on tour, they simply said the God Cards would not be on the tour. Perhaps it is noteworthy to mention their existence, or non-existence, in Yugioh GX.
:No explanation for their whereabouts is given, so there is nothing to add. Setokaiba✌≝ 19:53, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Egyptian God Cards at the Time of Yugioh GX 

message: Should we make a second entry under this heading for Atem's deck in the Ceremonail Battle? I think it would make sense, seeing as how Yugi gets his own deck list as well.
:There wouldn't be very much, though. Maybe just rename the section "Yugi's Deck" or something. The Splendiferous Gegiford 23:54, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There'd be no point in making a second header for such a small amount of cards. It makes more sense to keep all of Atem's card together in one section and all of Yugi's cards together in another. The Splendiferous Gegiford 00:15, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Millennium World cards 

message: Would anyone be adverse to listing his deck in GX as a seperate list? Drake Clawfang 22:39, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  GX 

message: *I think this article needs a better manga picture of Yugi. JuJube 05:40, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture 

message: In Chapter 34 of the English-language manga, Joey asks in concern, "Are you okay, Yugi? Do you need your insulin or something?". Does this mean Yugi is diabetic?
No he is just trying to say Yugi is weak --122.148.149.39 12:13, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is Yugi diabetic? 

message: To my knowledge, he usually goes under the name "Yami Yugi" or just "Yami" in the anime. Now, I'm not familiar with the manga. Is Yami referred to as "Dark Yugi" in the manga? --TotalSpaceshipGuy3 00:30, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dark Yugi vs. Yami Yugi 

message: Yugi Mutou and Dark Yugi (Pharaoh Atem) are opposite sides of the same soul as this quote from Ishizu suggests.
Ishizu says that maybe fate chose Yugi as the vessel for the Pharaoh's spirit not because he needed the Pharaoh's help, but because Yugi himself is the modern-day version of the Pharaoh, equal in every way. The two were brought together because they represent opposite sides of the same soul. (Japanese Ishizu says the vessel of the Pharaoh's soul must be equally strong. Yugi may have been small at first, but after carrying the Pharaoh's soul for so long, he's become strong.)
Marik starts to protest, but Ishizu finishes for him: they're so different from each other, because Yugi is shy and the Pharaoh is assertive and confident? The truth is, they each have a quality the other needed, so they learn from each other. (Japanese Marik says, Yugi? Ishizu says that humans who pass the tests can enlarge their vessel without limit.)
-Yu-Gi-Oh! Episode 222, Part 2
Source: http://www.yu-jyo.net/005/222.html
--205.211.141.243 14:58, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yugi and Atem 

message: have you people ever think that atemu could still be a name but a nickname kind of thing?
idk yamiyugimokubakaiba 1/2/09  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yamiyugimokubakaiba (talk • contribs) 16:29, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  continuation of the atemu/atem argument 

message: hey in the first episode when Jaden bumped into Yugi, Yugi's voice sounded like the Pharoah's. i know yugi's aged since the original yugioh, but what does that cameo mean? Does that mean Yami's back? J.C. 06:49, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  GX first appearance 

message: which episode does yugi date tea?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.107.217.63 (talk) 21:43, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: date

message: :Image:Yugi muto.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 21:55, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Yugi muto.jpg

message: I notice we neglect to show any pictures of Yami Yugi in this article. So since Yugi and Yami Yugi share the same article there should be at least one, may we please add one?--Zolo6 (talk) 04:37, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yami Yugi 

message: I think we should add a piece about his personal growth? At the beginning of the manga and anime he was is very timid and weak while Yami is very dark and scary but by the end of the series Yugi is strong enough to beat Yami in a duel, and Yami is soft enough to cater to him after.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.71.107.148 (talk) 21:49, 13 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yugi's Personal Growth 

message: During the Battle City tournament it is considered that the dark magician is Yugi's best card and therefore if he loses he has to give it to his opponent. However surely Dark Magician of Chaos or Black Luster Soldier are considered better and/or rarer????  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.134.24.120 (talk) 03:03, 20 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Yugi's Best Card?