Template talk:Punctuation marks

message: :The sandbox page was moved to  (Dec 2019)
I propose to change this Sidebar into a regular Navbox at page bottom, including a name change (page move). Reasoning: there is no need to have this one in top, it is cluttering. Also the list is very long (detailed). At the bottom, there is more space to present the marks. Improvements are still possible afterwards.
See . . -DePiep (talk) 20:31, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I've made them lighter. I think we need them to make visual distinction (visual search, stress a diff between name and mark, do not mistake with prev/next in list when reading/glancing). -DePiep (talk) 20:46, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Better but I'd go lighter still, as light as you possibly can. I understand and accept your purpose (most obviously when dealing with with types of space).  In the final analysis, it is a judgement call that someoneyou has to make, then it is what it is. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 21:05, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: "as light as you possibly can" = white ;-). For the reasons mentioned, all about "reading" the box (glancing is more what readers do), a distinction is helpful. More: There are three elements: the text/name link, the marks and the separator now a  dot. The grey helps separating & organising (as the colon does). And since there are marks (not letters) involved, distinction is more important -- not reading sentences. When we leave the vertical table (Sidebar) for some horizontal list, separations is more important. The human eye misses the helpful table-structure. -DePiep (talk) 21:16, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

text: Looks like what I was thinking of, but template:currency symbols may be a better design, with just the symbols showing. Whitespace can just be put in the (already existing) link to whitespace characters so you don't have to show them.Spitzak (talk) 21:23, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: My thoughts: 1. The currency symbols are not described (no text). Quite unhelpful except for familiar signs like dollar and euro. I was thinking about adding text there ;-) 2. Adding a link to the mark itself will cause or an underline to a 'drawing' (wikilink), or remove underline = unclear that it is a link. Both are drawbacks, now nicely in the textual wikilink. 3. I am very happy with the extra space we have in a bottom Navbox, using it for wider description. Let's not forget that we, interested editors, by now are very familiar with the punctuation marks. But a novice reader is helped with the texts. -DePiep (talk) 21:35, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: See #Proposal:_split_into_Infobox_and_Sidebar_navbox, Nov 2019. -DePiep (talk) 17:24, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I read that and this, and it looks like somehow this template was orphaned for the most part. What is WP:TFD for? —Locke Cole • t • c 17:57, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: If is is about content, we try to solve it at the talkpage. Once outside of content (deletion, disputed move), TfD comes into play. Problem with TfD is that uninvolved editors (uninvolved in its maintenance, topic, issue) come by and start telling others what to do. HTH -DePiep (talk) 18:04, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, but considering this template is now effectively orphaned from article-space, you might as well have deleted it. I only noticed what was going on because someone was edit warring to remove it from . A change like this really should have involved a wider audience... —Locke Cole • t • c 18:30, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

text: The 'somebody edit warring' was you. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 23:20, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

text: That wider "audience"(?) be involved topical editors then, not drive-by XfD!voters. What is your proposal? -DePiep (talk) 18:34, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: The fact that you disparage your fellow editors by calling them "drive by" is a pretty good indicator of what's wrong with your line of thinking. Maybe lay off the personal attacks? Other peoples opinions don't have to follow whatever your thinking is, that's why conversations happen. —Locke Cole • t • c 20:57, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: You are declaring a personal attack without good reason, is it too close to home? This discussion happened four months ago, where were you then? The infoboxes have been replaced as the opportunity arose, on a wide variety of punctuation, typography and currency. Again, why has it taken you until now to question what was being done, as you would were you actively interested in the topic? You are entirely free to reopen the question but you really need a more convincing argument than wp:becauseilikeit. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 23:16, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

text: Visual effect is also hardware dependent (e.g., screen settings & effects). So a color may be more light here with me than there with you. -DePiep (talk) 22:49, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

text: oooops made a mistake, "eee" is not "eeeeee". Pause judgement.  Will correct tomorrow. -DePiep (talk) 22:52, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I suspect that very few people would have spotted it! But time to vote again:
* In order of preference then: eee, eeeeee, e8e8e8 (all look pretty similar), ffffff. (F0 E6 8C has promise but this version is too lurid, how about a pale primrose? Black on yellow might well be clearer than on grey). [This is beginning to feel like a visit to the optometrist]. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 23:39, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

text: New names, now bleu again: ,  -DePiep (talk) 17:13, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

text: Looks like the tst options (color choice) is broken. Ping me if you want  to use this. -DePiep (talk) 17:21, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: (Discussion moved to Template talk:Navbox punctuation) --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 13:59, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal: change to footer Navbox 

message: See : it has various grey tints. note: the color is the RGB "e6e6e6" triplet, goes from black (00 ×3) to white (ff ×3). So "cccccc" is darker than "dddddd". Take care, do not be misguided by environment & situation. Try to judge per single color view. -DePiep (talk) 22:21, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Visual effect is also hardware dependent (e.g., screen settings & effects). So a color may be more light here with me than there with you. -DePiep (talk) 22:49, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: oooops made a mistake, "eee" is not "eeeeee". Pause judgement.  Will correct tomorrow. -DePiep (talk) 22:52, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I suspect that very few people would have spotted it! But time to vote again:
* In order of preference then: eee, eeeeee, e8e8e8 (all look pretty similar), ffffff. (F0 E6 8C has promise but this version is too lurid, how about a pale primrose? Black on yellow might well be clearer than on grey). [This is beginning to feel like a visit to the optometrist]. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 23:39, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

text: New names, now bleu again: ,  -DePiep (talk) 17:13, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

text: Looks like the tst options (color choice) is broken. Ping me if you want  to use this. -DePiep (talk) 17:21, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: (Discussion moved to Template talk:Navbox punctuation) --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 13:59, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Grey scale demos

message: I should have guessed why so few editors commented: nobody cares. The template is not used in any of the punctuation articles. Expletive deleted. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 19:56, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Nobody cares