Talk:2005 papal conclave/Archive 3

message: In the Pope John Paul II article, it says that he was the 264th successor of Saint Peter.  In this Papal conclave article, it says that they will be voting for the 265th pope.  Wasn't John Paul II the 265th pope since he was the 264th successor?  If this is true, then isn't the conclave voting for the 266th pope and not the 265th?
:No...you are adding the same number twice.He was the 264th bishop of Rome as 263rd successor to St. Peter,and the new Pope will be 265th Bishop of Rome as 264th successor to St. Peter.--Louis E./le@put.com/12.144.5.2 05:11, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Succession Order

message: Although John Paul II's successor has not yet been named, people have long said that "He who enters the conclave as pope, leaves it as a cardinal.
:Maybe I'm being a bit thick today, but I don't understand this. Can someone provide some elaboration? Ben Arnold 07:25, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I expect that this is due to the most photogenic and media-ready Cardinals, who get far more exposure than those who are quieter, are often predicted to succeed–perhaps these types are counter to true papal expectations? --Oldak Quill 12:45, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Talk about media-ready Cardinals. Vow of Silence - Eyebrows have been raised at some cardinals behaviour. Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, a former curial official who was appointed as the Archbishop of Genoa in 2002 has been visiting the long queue of pilgrims, accompanied by a camera crew which recorded his every handshake. Meanwhile, Cardinal Renato Martino, who heads the Vaticans Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace, has begun actively courting the press. -- KTC 00:34, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confusing sentence 

message: I removed following sentence: The odds are against it, but it is theoretically possible that someone like the formerly papabile Cardinal Martini could be chosen by that route. Reason: Carlo Maria Martini is younger then 80, thus he takes part at the conclave! 83.65.250.91 12:07, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Carlo Maria Martini 

message: To avoid the possibility of causing offence as mentioned at the top of this article, perhaps it might make more sense to have a "running list" of cardinals, indicating who would be eligible under the present rules etc, leading off the main conclave page and, perhaps, from the (current pope) page. Thus, except during an actual interregnum the page would acknowledge that it is a hypothetical construct.
:There is currently the List of Cardinals. All Cardinals, indeed, all male Roman Catholics, are eligable to become Pope. Eligibility only concerns who can vote. --Oldak Quill 18:52, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The most comprehensive list of current Cardinals in Wikipedia is at College of Cardinals,giving birthdates,nationalities,and positions for all of them.The List of Cardinals and List of Cardinals by country are more bare-bones,while the Category:Cardinals is missing some and the List of notable cardinals to maintain independent usefulness needs to be restricted to those of particular significance;both the latter two cover past as well as present cardinals.--Louis E./12.144.5.2 20:33, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Suggestion

message: We have to be careful to avoid original research and not compile a papabili list based on our own "expertise". Names that we list as papabili should be sourced. there was a recent book on the "next" papal conclave relased last year which much of the media is quoting. I think we should copy the list from that book and source it and when we add any names not on the list, mention the source that considers that candidate papabile. Otherwise, our list will be a product of our own speculation and thereby unecnyclopedic. AndyL 17:04, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: In this case, our guess is as  good as the press'. But yes, such a list may be useful. Sadly, the variety of factors that come into play during the conclave are so diverse that the list of papabili varies widely. --Oldak Quill 18:50, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Peter Hebblethwaite wrote a book after the 1994 consistory assuming the conclave was imminent;he died soon,the Pope didn't.Frank Young (Francis A. Burkle-Young) wrote a book () after the 1998 consistory assuming the conclave was imminent;he died in January.John Allen wrote a book after the 2001 consistory,assuming the conclave was imminent;the 2003 consistory intervened and I don't think anyone has written a book since.Allen seems to be a prominent talking head,but he's clueless enough to have said in a speech that only two of the 1958 cardinals predated Pius XII (there were thirteen,including many key figures).In correspondence with Young after his book,he consistently leaned toward Tettamanzi,who had been one of his book's five candidates;of the other four,two are retired and one dead,the other is Danneels.--Louis E./12.144.5.2 20:39, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: papabili

message: They cannot be the arms during the sede vacante as they have no shield.  --Daniel C. Boyer 20:37, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: According to http://www.vatican.va/, there is. --Oldak Quill 10:44, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Arms