Talk:Baltimore accent

message: I move that we change the article name from "Baltimorese" to "Baltimore dialect" in an attempt to establish a little more of a professional and formal "feel" to the page.  I understand that the dialect is most often referred to as "Baltimorese", however, most other dialects have much more official sounding names.  The page for "Pittsburghese" is entitled "Pittsburgh English" and then denotes in its opening line that it is  "...popularly known as Pittsburghese..."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_English.  I think the same should be written for the Baltimore dialect, as "Baltimorese" is more of a colloquialism than anything.  Thoughts?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Oldlinestate (talk • contribs) 22:32, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The #Recent page move -- should have waited for consensus section below happened after the comment to which you are responding, and apparently indicates that the name has changed and that there are numerous strong opinions on all sides. It was also (linked from later discussion) brought to a wider WP-project discussion, which did not have a specific answer other than that "systematic naming for its own sake" is poor and (as expected) we should use what other sources use if there is a consensus among them. Feel free to start a new discussion (WP talk-pages go chronologically, so it's purely luck that I happened to read this old section) to start a renaming proposal (see WP:RM for the current way to identify/format it). DMacks (talk) 19:12, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Again the page was moved without consensus. If anything, the article could be folded with Philly into the MidAtlantic dialect, which is essentially the same in terms of phonology at least, or it could be Baltimore English. Whatever decision is taken, there will need to be a discussion first. mnewmanqc (talk) 01:33, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Movement to modify title of article. 

message: It's probably worth noting that Bawlmerese is a dialect spoken almost exclusively by white people.  Not sure where exactly in the article this should go. --Jfruh 02:48, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, that rather changes the meaning given that Baltimore has an African-American majority population. Yeltensic42.618 03:29, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

text: I guess you don't venture into the city, beside the Inner Harbor, or the clubs in Fells Point/Canton/Federal Hill that often, or have never talked to a longtime resident or someone who grew up in the city, espicially on the east side in Fells Point or Canton or Butchers Hill or Highlandtown. --Boothy443 |  trácht ar 05:47, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: True, I've been almost every place in Baltimore there is to go, and I have heard some very deep Bawlmerese 16:30, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

text: The people who claim they've never heard it or hear it rarely clearly just aren't listening carefully enough or are so used to it that it doesn't phase them when they do hear it.  I don't even live within city limits - I live south of the city in Severna Park and I can't go a single day without hearing at least 1 or 2 people with some twinge of the mid-atlantic sound.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.67.22.116 (talk) 21:11, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

text:  My mother grew up in NW Baltimore, and she and her sisters all speak Bawlmerese. Her family settled right at the heart of the present city in 1685 (where Bolton Hill is now), so I'm wondering if the origins of the accent are simply from rhotic West Country English. I have also heard it spoken, in a milder form, by people from Carroll and Frederick counties. One word I've often heard used by my family and on the street in Baltimore is "fritz," as in "Dat parking meter's onner fritz." That is, it's broken. It's possible the expression came from Pennsylvania Dutch, so I'm not sure if it counts as Bawlmerese. - Achariel, 13 January 2012  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.50.191.84 (talk) 17:34, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Who speaks it?

message: In the recent film adaption of the Hairspray musical John Travolta plays Divine's old role of Tracy's mother.  How's his Baltimore accent? Arthurian Legend 04:29, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Doen'cha knoe, it's herrble, hon!  He took a couple of aspects of things he's heard in Dundalk, along with places in Howard, Hartford, and Cecil counties, and came up with something that was grossly un-authentic.  To his credit, he tried to do some sort of accent, unlike the rest of the cast who talked like they were from somewhere in the Midwest.Weyandt 19:49, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Let's just say, he tried, but it was not good. It may have been that way in the 60's though, but I wouldn't know.Chic3z (talk) 15:18, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  hairspray (musical) movie - 2007 

message: its called "Balmereese" not "Baltimorese".— Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.250.31.212 (talk) 18:26, 2 August 2007‎ (UTC)
Perhaps you mean to say it's pronounced "Balmereese?"Toddstreat1 23:17, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Grr

message: Moved ungooglable *Brummy Warsher to talk. If notability established, move back. Toddstreat1 23:17, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Moved unknown

message: The reasons I keep deleting the section now labeled "Common examples, informally described" are manifold:
* 1. The section has no references.
* 2. It's nothing but an unsystematic list of pseudo-phonetic respellings of mostly standard words; this is uninformative because pseudo-phonetic respellings are vague and mean different things to different people.
* 3. It's POV and unencyclopedic: because it's a list of Baltimore pronunciations of common words, rather than Baltimore-specific words, there are no objective criteria for choosing what words to include or exclude. It's just an indiscriminate list.
* 4. Even if it were possible to figure out from the respellings what pronunciation is meant to be conveyed, giving a list of Baltimore pronunciations of common words adds no information: the phonetic features of the Baltimore accent should be, and are, described elsewhere in the article. 
* 5. Many of the examples listed don't exhibit features of the Baltimore accent at all, but rather features common to the informal speech of every region of the United States.
Reason turns rancid: This kind of section does not appear on other dialect pages. Other dialect pages contain lists of words that are common in the dialect in question and rare outside it, such as "bubbler" and "frappe" for the Boston accent or "on line" for New York dialect. This is not such a list. AJD 04:41, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "Common examples, informally described"

message: Where is the assertion about dental /d/ from? As far as I am aware, these have only been reported for NYC English as in Hubbell (1950), who says that they're not true dentals but dentalized alveolars. The editor who added it has no personal page. There are other contributions with little or no references on this page, but they seem more anecdotal than this. Also, why /d/s and not /t/s, /s/s, or /n/s? mnewmanqc (talk) 11:17, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: While I haven't deleted the above from the article, it is INACCURATE, and should be deleted.  Baltimoreans do NOT substitute d's for dental fricatives (or t's, etc.).  Being from western PA, this is more of a Pittsburgh English feature, e.g., referring to the Cincinnati Bengals as "Da Bungles," but only by the late Myron Cope and those doing an impression of him; it is not a consistent feature of Pittsburgh English.  As a matter of fact, someone saying "Da Yanks" is how (native) Yankees fans are instantly recognized as non-Baltimore residents when the come to Camden Yards (well, that and not cheering in an exaggeratedly fronted "EEAAAAAH" during the singing the "Oh!" of the Star Spangled Banner (Oh, say does that Star Spangled banner yet wave).Weyandt (talk) 13:50, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure if I truly understand what you are saying, but if by replacing D's for T's you mean as in Baldamore for Baltimore or dat for that, many areas in the city talk like this. That actually would be accurate.Chic3z (talk) 15:04, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dental coronal consonants? 

message: Where did the information come from to say Johnny Depp used a Baltimore accent in Willy Wonka? Can't seem to find this anywhere, and I wonder if this is even true.
Jclingerman (talk) 14:31, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I thought this was strange as well.  I wouldn't have identified what Johnny Depp was trying to do as Baltimore English, but it could have been a bad attempt at it.  I did a little digging, and I don't think that's what Mr. Depp was attempting.  Consider that Raold Dahl was British, and there is no mention of Baltimore in any back-story of Willy Wonka.  Mr. Depp was going for a damaged, emotionally immature Willy Wonka, so I think he was trying to make the character sound baby-ish.  If someone wantt to research it further, I would recommend it.  Having said that, I think there's enough evidence to suggest that Mr. Depp was not trying to imitate a Baltimore accent for Willy Wonka, and the reference should be deleted.Weyandt (talk) 14:55, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Strange indeed. That was one of the silliest accents in film history in my opinion. He is a great performer/transformer, so I hope he was not attempting to imitate Baltimore's accent (which in itself has 2-3 distinct accents). He did a great accent, but it would have been a poor Baltimore accent. I will erase that sentence because there is not one source to back it up. If someone can find one, by all means, add it.Chic3z (talk) 14:48, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Willy Wonka? 

message: I was surprised, dismayed to not see any reference to the common use of calling someone "Babe". It was specially used between men who wanted  to admire a person by comparing him to Babe Ruth, a Baltimore hero. Anyone called Babe was considered a 'home run hitter' a champion in the speaker's eyes.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.191.70.105 (talk) 22:16, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use of name Babe 

message: Each of the citations in the Notable Speakers sections that I checked failed verification.  The citations just say that they're from Baltimore.   Just because someone lived in or grew up in Baltimore doesn't mean they speak with a Baltimore accent.  On Wikipedia, that's called WP:SYN and is not cool. Please be sure to use citations that show they have the accent.  The Dissident Aggressor 14:47, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Factual Accuracy - speakers 

message: I watched a documentary recently and heard a noticeable feature among the Baltimore speakers depicted: a dipthongization or fronting of [u] (I can't quite tell which it is). I can't link to YouTube from here, but if you look up the trailer for Step there's a passage at about 1m33s that has a good example: I have like two people inside of me ... One is unstoppable and can do anything... . This pronunciation is exhibited by several different people in the film. This blog post says it's a pretty common feature among Black and White speakers alike, although I don't see u-fronting mentioned in this article. Ibadibam (talk) 22:40, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  u-fronting 

message: I live in Baltimore, the most different pronunciation of a word that I ever heard of is wash, which we pronounce "warsh" Myth420 (talk) 02:34, 17 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Words 

message: A discussion is taking place to address the redirect :Baltimoron. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 October 27#Baltimoron until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  Jalen Folf (talk) 02:27, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Baltimoron" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: It is true that the Baltimore accent has no cot–caught merger: The words cot /ɑ/ and caught /ɒ
/ do not rhyme, with the latter vowel maintaining a raised position. But the word on does not rhyme with eihter dawn or don. It is a third sound. The following are all different:
Don - dɑn ("cot", "knot") https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_back_unrounded_vowel
Dawn - dɒən ("caught", "auger") https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-mid_back_rounded_vowel
book - bʊ:k https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-close_near-back_rounded_vowel
On - oən (or even ʊ:ə like the "o" in stereotypical (nonrhotic) New York accent "horse" or "door" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close-mid_back_rounded_vowel
Own - ɛo​̞n (this is the famous Patapsco River "O") https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid_back_rounded_vowel
This is complicated by the fact that nearly all initial vowel sounds are replaced with some sort of extended dipthong (or tripthong!)
I'm going by the audio clips in the Wikipedia [vowel chart|]; I'm not convinced they're all accurate, so I added examples. Casu Marzu (talk) 19:38, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have a source we can refer to? Wolfdog (talk) 21:20, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  "On" rhymes with neither "dawn" nor "don" 

message: I can't believe they didn't mention the Baltimore O (aoew)? Mine is glorious, hon. 2600:4040:B5F1:4A00:10BC:5379:A174:F3B0 (talk) 02:05, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  How did they miss discussing the “o”?