Talk:Eli Soriano

message: I added the fact of nuissance candidate declaration by comelec. I also added the rape case.
--Florentino floro 12:02, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Initial comments 

message: The nuissance candidate issue and rape issue being charged of Eliseo Soriano was trimmed down into one category: Legal and Court Cases.  This aspect still needs to be cleaned to reach the standards of an encyclopedia. --Julianmakabayan 00:13, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed they need to be to encyclopedic standard. They are now, because I have fixed them. Please do not make edits which remove pertinent information and/or add contentious information, with the edit summary "Formatting and clean edit to reflect encyclopedic style of Wikipedia.)". I removed your addition alleging Veridiano has been accused of sexual molestation and assault of teenagers. We would need to be able to cite police/court sources to justify such an allegation, and certainly not the say so of a lawyer representing the person accused of raping Veridiano. I have also altered the flow of the article.  The section dealing with awards/recognitions needs to be lower where I have put it. Also, it contains many entries which hardly seem to merit inclusion in an encyclopedia. Also, most entries are unsourced. Would you like to trim that list? Moriori 22:42, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  One category of Legal and Court Cases 

message: I removed the most recent addition which partly stated "Comelec said Soriano does not have the capability to launch a nationwide campaign". According to the official Comelec report, Soriano and others were declared nuisance/disqualified "for the reasons that they cannot wage a national campaign, and/or are not nominated by a political party or are not supported by a registered political party with a national constituency". The addition to the article gave (unsourced) comment on a selective part of the reason/s for disqualification. Not very encyclopedic. Moriori 02:37, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Nuisance candidate

message: Please do not remove the word controversial. My dictionary defines controversial as giving rise or likely to give rise to public disagreement -- contentious, disputed, at issue, disputable, debatable, arguable, vexed, tendentious. The article clearly states he criticises various other religious groups for their doctrines and practices, that he faces charges for rape, that he was declared a nuisance senatorial candidate and was disqualified from an election. That makes him controversial, by any definition. Incidentally, isn't it "coincidental" that after Wikipedia used his own website as a source for "controversial", the word was removed from his website. Moriori 21:24, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Furthermore, in the very first paragraph of its OMNIBUS RESOLUTION No. 6604, Comelec stated the following -- "Once again, the noble right of suffrage is used as cloak to serve the caprices of a few who want to mock our democratic processes as the May 10, 2004 Naitonal and Local Elections approacehs. This Commission will never be an instrument to such inclinations since it is duty-bound to uphold the time-honored principle of vox populi, vox dei. " Any capricious person who wants to mock the democratic process of the country  is controversial. 
Unfortunately, the same Comelec who declared Bro. Soriano to be a "nuisance" candidate and a "capricious" person is itself (by Moriori's  standards) even more controversial because it is universally hated in the Philippines for being the institution that made possible the Hello Garci Election Scandal. Moriori, you clearly must conduct a deeper study of Philippine society and Philippine government before drawing conclusions from superficial facts you happen to find on establishment websites. Our Comelec is not the same respectable electoral institution you may have in your country. Your political leaders do not count on political support from shrewd religious leaders such as those in our country whom Bro. Soriano stand against. Moriori, you do not know the political cost of speaking the biblical truth in the Philippines. We are a marginalized religious minority with powerful enemies in the Philippine media, government and established religion. I hope you will be little more objective.  
Journeyist 04:45, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Controversial

message: i deleted the first paragraph, because those statements are baseless and inaccurate.  Mr. Soriano's manner of preaching is not 'often' a target of criticism.  In fact, he has received numerous citations and recognitions coming from different award giving bodies --- all of which came from groups with different religious denominations (see the awards and recognitions section). He is also not 'fond' of attacking his 'religious opponent'.  One who religiously tunes in to his broadcasts on TV and radio, will 'realize' that Mr. Soriano is just prompted to answer all those who ask questions to him regarding salvation, the bible, God, etc. For one who is teaching the truth to be reliable and accurate  must always also point out the false.  This is not 'attacking' in its real essence. Mickey0000 03:15, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Criticisms

message: There is no doubt, and I confirm that Bro. Eli has no duplicate in the entire world, even in Ateneo EAPI. I studied pre-divinity at the Ateneo, 1972, where I met the best of Catholic Philippinea most powerful priests and foreign Ph.D.s, like my classmate Fr. Archie Intengan, S.J. But I never found any foreign doctors who could match Eli's phenomena.
Bro. Eli is a phenomena as far as BIBLE memorization or citing is concerned, he is a dictionary.
However, I find his biting and negativism vs other sects diminishing his positive gains.
Maybe it is due to his emotional setting.
--Florentino floro 08:39, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Bro. Eli, A phenomena

message: I am not trying to start an edit war but I have been reverting some edits which are POV and which are also rather poor English. I don't think the author is editing in bad faith but it is clear that different people have different views and it is hard to be impartial. Soriano is a controvercial figure and we should not take sides in his arguments. Perhaps the wording is a bit harsh in places but we can't have a whitewash either. We need to avoid anecodotal claims and counter-claims. If there is no supporting references then it is better to remove them completely. If there are references for both views then both can be included.
I would also like to explain why "Rape case" is the correct title for the section and "Alleged rape case" is wrong. The rape is an allegation because we don't know if that really happened but the case itself is real not alleged. To say "alleged rape case" is to say that it is disputed whether there is/was a court case. I know this is a bit subtle but the title as it is does not imply his guilt and should stay as it is. --DanielRigal (talk) 18:20, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh dear. An edit war it seems to be. Please can somebody else jump in and try to break the deadlock here? --DanielRigal (talk) 15:28, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The article, to me, can be in perfect neutrality. See picture. Also, a very pessimistic user, does not believe in the video of Gawad Amerika awarding Soriano and giving him a title of the most sensible preacher in our time. I support what Wikiuserphil wants, that Soriano's awards (2) must be mentioned in this article.  Dar book (Complains?) 10:16, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello Puppetmaster, the so-called Gawad America is a non-notable "award" created by Soriano's organization for the purpose of giving him an award. Be realistic, what authentic and honorable award giving body would award this fugitive Soriano? The name "Most Sensible Preacher" award is a clear give away. Have you seen any authentic and honorable award giving body giving this kind of award? An award must be longstanding and prestigious to merit mention in an encyclopedic article. Now, with regards to the Philippine Web Awards, was it Soriano who made their website? Soriano Usurped the award meant for whoever is the webmaster of their website. How can you put a best website award in an article about Soriano? Is he the website? Did he create the website? We must also look at the validity of this Philippine Web Awards. I browsed through their website and it doesn't give the name of the people running the award, it is a suspiciously anonymous award giving body who never fails to award the websites of Eli Soriano and his nephew Daniel Razon. I would bet my bottom dollar that this Philippine Web Awards is just another proganda machinery of this most anomalous religious syndicate headed by the fugitive Eli Soriano.  – Shannon Rose (talk) 18:32, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Check the earlier Philippine Web Awards (2001 and earlier), was the Ang Dating Daan website given an award back then? Also, I'll tell you the truth on how somebody's website be given an award here, first nominate them, second tell tehm a reason on why the website is notable then they'll award if if there are many people accesing and viewing the website. Usually 2 million above. Soriano's followers do not total 2 million + and so, do you think his followers simultaneously accessed the website to bypass the limit. Tsk, still another pessimistic response. Also, Soriano can't pay for many artists to come in the what you claim Fake Gawad Amerkia and be awarded. He is a fugitive and can't pay the bail for the two counts of rape filed by Veridiano (one ADD members who turned to an INC member) which was dismissed but then reopened by the Philippine's Justice Secretary. Also, "if there is no website, it doen't exist", there is no policy like that. Only a very pessimistic user who only thinks  that the church is using WP as propaganda will think about things like that. Dar book (Complains?) 08:30, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It is not a question of whether Soriano can or cannot pay for the plain tickets of the so-called awardees (of course he can, he is a big time swindler and owns many businesses) because the "awardees" would gladly pay the tickets themselves. It is also not true that Eli Soriano cannot pay the bail for his homosexual rape case, being a fugitive has nothing to do with his inability to pay bail, it has all to do with running from and refusing to face the law and refusing to accept whatever judgement is ruled by the courts. With regards to the Philippine Web Awards, who set it up? Who are the officers? Who are the judges? It is completely anonymous. A fictitious non-notable award where Soriano and Razon's websites always win. Whether I am pessimistic or optimistic is none of your business. Bottom line is you are a member of this most anomalous religious syndicate, you don't follow WP guidelines, you cannot speak English, you cannot provide reliable third-party published sources, and you have been proven to use a sockpuppet to abuse your editing privileges. To be quite honest, I don't know what you are still doing here. The article has been protected because of you, you are just a nuisance here. – Shannon Rose (talk) 15:10, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Here look at this. It is about the Philippine Web Award's history, Soriano does not always win in this award winning body! Check their archives before judging it. Here, check this. Did Soriano win there? Still don't believe, check the other archieves. He only got the award on 2004, while the Phil Web Awards was already running way back in 1998. I'm a Nuiscance? You have crossed the line, and this is my last straw! My edits in non-related articles were not reverted, and even sometimes appreciated. Also, Wikiuserphil is not my sock, he has been an editor even before I first showed up. Not only that, I didn't even know the wiki guidlines before. Your lucky, because this might be my last post here, since I have work comming. But rest assured, whenever I have time, I will watch this page, but not edit it anymore. You have been warned by the admin who blocked my sock. You are harassing me. He said it himself. I need a vacation. WP is my only hobby, and you messed up all my plans! This gives me stress and I'm going to plan a break. I don't edit this article anymore. Let the other COI editors handle it. Can't we just settle this peacefully? Goodbye. Dar book (Complains?) 07:56, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Dar book here you are again posting nothing but nonsense. Where did I accuse you of being Wikiuserphil's puppeteer? Yours is a ridiculous attempt to confuse the readers of this talk page. You are the confirmed puppeteer of Defenz 07 not Wikiuserphil. Nobody is even mentioning Wikiuserphil. Now, about the links you provided, where there do they actually give out the names of the people who make up the so-called "award giving body" in question? Again, you have proven my point that this non-notable "award", who would always award the websites of Soriano and his nephew Daniel Razon, is completely anonymous and therefore suspicious and spurious. Let me give you an example of a notable award worth mentioning in an encyclopedia entry, the Nobel Prize. Look at how transparent an authentic award giving body is, here is the board of directors of the foundation that runs the award. Also, it doesn't really matter if the spurious Philippine Web Awards awarded Soriano in the beginning or not, fake awards would tend to make themselves look credible first by awarding other people, or else it would be too obvious. Use your brain, Dar book, snap out of the cult conditioning! I'll tell you what, If you can give us any reliable third-party published source saying anything positive about Soriano himself then I will be more than happy to include it in the article myself, unfortunately there exists no such thing, which should really make you think twice about your idol. – Shannon Rose (talk) 15:27, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, I understand. But I still sense bias in your edits. One thing is that you don't remove unreferenced non-promotional negative facts while you instantly removed unreferenced promotional facts. Also, not all websites will post their board of directors. Also, I did found this website, GMA is a known and trusted NEWS STATION. Dar book (Complains?) 10:15, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, it's you again. No one is contesting that Soriano did receive the so-called award. My point is that the "award" is not notable enough to merit mention in an encyclopedia article. Also, we are not talking about "board of directors of websites". A website need not necessarily have a "board of directors". Even you can create your own website without the need for officers. We are talking about this spurious Philippine Web Awards being completely anonymous, in contrast with authentic award-giving bodies who would always devulge their leadership to the public. The mention of the board of directors of the Nobel Prize was just meant to support this. Your problem is you are always confused about what is being discussed. If you don't have the capacity to understand simple logic then how can you edit an encyclopedia? No wonder 99% of all your edits are being reverted by other editors, and that up to now you are still uploading illegal images to Wikipedia. All you do is bring chaos and garbage to Wikipedia. – Shannon Rose (talk) 00:50, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

text: A little clarification, the images were orphaned because somebody removed the link to those images in the main article. The copyright of those images were not questioned by anybody nor they reverted 40% of my edits to the main article of the said pictures. Please try to read the said complaint before accusing me of uploading illegal images to Wikipedia and bring chaos and garbage to Wikipedia. Dar book (Complains?) 12:11, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  My Recent Reverts 

message: In November 2006, a arrest warrant against Soriano was issued by Judge Lucina Dayaon, Macabebe, RTC Branch 54. Eliseo Soriano on June 21, 2008, posted  P 240,000 bail for another 2 counts of rape, before Judge Silvino Pampilo, Jr., Manila Regional Trial, after surrendering to a police Station 10 jailer Jun Gumaruin, Pandacan, Manila to avoid being apprehension. The indictment or criminal "Information" states that: "Soriano took advantage of his moral ascendancy and/or influence to direct his subordinate to come into his room, massage him and have anal intercourse, around 1:30 p.m. of May 17, 2000. The sexual acts were done against the will and consent, and to the damage and prejudice of the complainant, who was also a religious." Gumaru said: "He was not into hiding, and he was not arrested."Inquirer.net, Dating Daan’s Ely Soriano posts bail--Florentino floro (talk) 12:12, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Manila Standard Today however, reported that Regional State Prosecutor Jaime Umpa, as Pampanga assistant provincial prosecutor, was instrumental in the filing of criminal cases against Eliseo Soriano, the most vocal critic of the Iglesia ni Cristo. In this regard, Umpa's boss, Raul M. Gonzalez’s chief of staff, Undersecretary Fidel Exconde, is a leading member of the INC.manilastandardtoday.com, Handcuffed Meralco executives?--Florentino floro (talk) 07:38, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Bail

message: Would editors please stop accusing each other of vandalism over the removal and readding of the news quotes. This is a good faith content dispute, not vandalism. Vandalism is when somebody knows that what they are doing is wrong and deliberately makes the article worse. I am sure that this does not apply here. I know that there have been editors seeking to remove critical material from this article, which rightly puts us on guard, but the removal of the news quotes seems legitimate to me. If anybody disagrees we can discuss it here, but lets stop reverting and accusing eachother. --DanielRigal (talk) 10:34, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems that "vandalism" is a broad term, and used incorrectly by those who are inexperienced in Wikipedia. The issue at hand is about the way it's written may constitute a WP:LIVING violation, as it's giving undue weight to a negative incident. If we are to still keep it on the article, we need it formatted so it flows in with the article, not stand out, not to mention the possibility of copyright issues. I've seen other articles include short snippets (less than 3 or 4 sentences) of that quoted reference in the citation. Maybe that could be better? --wL<speak·check> 10:49, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: After looking at what was emphasized. I feel that it should be included in the article as it documents what the prosecution believes what happened during the incidents, and is a help to that section. So I went ahead and added it to the beginning of the section. --wL<speak·check> 11:28, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

text: I am in complete agreement with what you did and believes that the whole article is, in its present form, presentable and quite informative. If we can gradually get rid of the self-serving (POV) bits and pieces scatered here and there then we are close to having a good article here. Kudos to DanielRigal for bringing this matter into concensus. – Shannon Rose (talk) 18:15, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Vandalism" (News Quotes) 

message: This shows that Soriano's bail and release were fraudulent and therefore he was sued for falsification: "Investigation showed that Soriano never surrendered nor was he arrested or detained at the Pandacan station on June 21, but a certificate of detention was still issued on his behalf by Pandacan Police Officer 3 June Gumaru, said Criminal Investigation and Detection Group-Manila chief Superintendent Joaquin Alva." So, I must re-add this, so that this Wikipedia article would be neutral and verifiable as to the fact of bail and release.--Florentino floro (talk) 07:24, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Falsification

message: I edited this BLP article in good faith, removing a claim in the intro that the subject is an international fugitive. There are two references regarding this, and one of them says he surrendered to the court and was freed on bail (so he can't be a fugitive). 
Remember what Jimbo Wales said about Biographies of Living Persons? He said "we have a really serious responsibility to get things right.". Remember what BlP also says? It says '"poorly sourced contentious material about living persons—whether the material is negative, positive, or just questionable—should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion". I removed the contentious claim because it is poorly sourced, with one reference contradicting the other. It has now been restored by a user who wonders if I am a banned user called petersantos.  I am not. I simply want to make wiki more encyclopedic, but the two users who restored the information, User:Conrad940 and User:Shannon Rose clearly want POV retained, to the detriment of Wikipedia. Shame on you both.
Also, I removed the claim that "Soriano is popular for criticizing various other religious groups...." Read that again. And again. The leader of a minority group is popular for criticizing other religious groups? Pigs might fly.  I also did a brief general edit which improved the aticle. Naturally enough, it was deleted by the pov pushers.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.152.164.160 (talk) 01:18, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: hi, please read the rest of the content. immediately following the newspaper story about him surrendering, another report came out saying he falsified his surrender. meaning he didn't really surrender. I've put a bullet so it won't be missed again. i hope this clears up things for you. Conrad940 (talk) 05:49, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

text: Soriano is an international fugitive, it is a duly-sourced fact. Reliable, third-party, published sources are used in compliance with WP:RS. A broadsheet newspaper article came out saying that he surrendered, but after that another broadsheet newspaper article came out saying that it was faked and he did not really surrender. Can't you read? If he is really on bail and not a fugitive (an international fugitive at that) then why is he on the Interpol wanted list in the Interpol official website??? The link to that website is also used as reference in the article. Here it is. Your leader is a wanted man, you can cry blood but you won't be able to whitewash that reality. Your leader is wanted by the Philippine government and the Interpol for homosexual rape. If you type his name on the Google toolbar the suggestions "Eli Soriano rape case" and "Eli Soriano Interpol" automatically come up. Your leader is notable for 1. being an international fugitive and 2. being a leader of a religious group. The truth is that you are no other than perma-blocked user Petersantos a.k.a. Journeyist a.k.a. Patrick Lim a.k.a. OQtE5AokaDv4 etc., etc. You are not editing in good faith. You are editing with a heavy POV. Stop idiotizing the editors here. We know who you are. – Shannon Rose (talk) 18:37, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: What? I thought this was supposed to be a BLP!

message: The introduction to this article needs to be a summary of the entire article. As it is right now, it doesn't give the gist of why he's controversial, which tips it as positive POV. As with many articles I come around this project, the first sentence should always be name, birth date and place, and occupation. Deviating from that for any reason can be grounds of pushing a certain point of view. Since "fugitive" is not an occupation, I removed it and I might add a sentence as to why he is. Also there should be sources on the intro as well. --wL<speak·check> 10:52, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I have reinstated the fugitive part because the first sentence is usually a justification of notability, be it fame or notoriety, and not just a declaration of the subject's occupation (at the moment a Google search for Eli Soriano fugitive returns 1,590 hits). In view of notability "international fugitive" is more pressing than "controversial Filipino televangelist" and so it took precedence. It would be anti-climatic to reverse their positions. Nevertheless, I am for the improvement of the article and have nothing against restructuring the first paragraph to make it more encyclopedic. Perhaps we can learn something from the Warren Jeffs article as it is excellently written. Eli Soriano may also be fitting for WP:CRIME. – Shannon Rose (talk) 14:10, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Warren Jeffs is a great template to work with when it comes to this article, because his status within a church as well as his criminal actions are similar to Soriano. It shows what I was intending to do later on with this. But one thing I realized is that "fugitive" is only temparary. There's a chance he will be caught, and it will no longer be accurate once he's caught. I'll welcome the Crime WikiProject to help us out on this. I think they know more about handling articles like this than WikiProject Christianity. --wL<speak·check> 20:07, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

text: I agree with Shannon Rose. And I even think that "accused rapist" gives a more accurate description if what looking for is a "gist of why he's controversial". But that would be too much and would probably violate some WP policy. Conrad940 (talk) 16:13, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[tl|POV-intro]] 

message: :You might want to check out the following link as it clarifies some allegations (most especially on the interpol and bureau of immigration issues) in this wikipedia article that are said to be "truthful".  http://www.zimbio.com/Bro.+Eliseo+F.+Soriano/articles/31/Interpol+Wanted+People+Choice+Awardee+Truth 121.1.61.208 (talk) 16:21, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sorry but I have to decline your proposal. A blog entry written by a follower of the subject cannot be impartial and grossly fails WP:RS. The article, in its present form, is adequately-referenced using reliable, third-party, published sources, which is defined as "credible published materials with a reliable publication process; their authors are generally regarded as trustworthy or authoritative in relation to the subject at hand." Blogs and websites connected to Soriano or his followers in any way are not acceptable since coverage should be from "reliable sources that are independent of the subject" (as per WP:GNG). Thank you for taking time to discuss your concerns. – Shannon Rose (talk) 09:49, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  On being impartial 

message: I am removing this section due to a lack of verifiable 3rd party sources. www.eliseosoriano.com is hardly a reliable source is it? Prior to restoration or reversion please consult WP:PROVEIT WP:BURDEN and WP:SOURCES. - 4twenty42o (talk) 05:19, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Next question.. Can youtube video's be used as a source? - 4twenty42o (talk) 19:00, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Please remove this section because the supposed "awards" listed here are all unnotable. Not all award giving bodies are worthy of inclusion in an encyclopedia. Also, notice so-called "awards" like 2008 Most Popular Website, 2008 People's Choice Award (Organization Category), 2007 Most Popular Website and 2007 People's Choice Award (Organization Category). The website and the organization are not Eliseo Soriano, awards for the website and the organization should not be taken as Eli Soriano's awards. This is utter nonsense. - Shannon Rose Talk 19:07, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed.. However, you may have noticed that the page is protected from editing due to edit warring and the inability of some editors to reach a consensus .. Perhaps you should take your argument to the admin whom locked it. - 4twenty42o (talk) 19:41, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

text: Can I mention the award in the Ang Dating Daan article? BTW, thank you for finding a RS source for this award. Dar book (Complains?) 07:37, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Awards and Recognition section

message: Although the Manila Times no longer supports the article i found a link on way back. Can that be used as a ref?? http://web.archive.org/web/20071217182209/http://www.manilatimes.net/national/2007/oct/06/yehey/metro/20071006met1.html - 4twenty42o (talk) 07:59, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. Using archive.org is a perfectly legitimate way to link to material that has been removed from the web. The only question is why it was removed? If it was due to a general clean up of old articles (e.g. a site relaunch without an archive of older articles, or older articles being moved behind a paywall) then that is fine. Only if it was removed due to the specific article being retracted (e.g. due to inaccuracy, libel or whatever) would it be an issue and we would need to think carefully about whether the article could be still considered reliable after being repudiated by its publisher. --DanielRigal (talk) 14:27, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks I'll do some research.. - 4twenty42o (talk) 18:11, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: august 2003 libel case

message: There are a couple of changes I think should be made, that I believe will make this a more accurate article. First I found a link to the story on the libel case.http://web.archive.org/web/20071217182209/http://www.manilatimes.net/national/2007/oct/06/yehey/metro/20071006met1.html  I can find nothing to suggest that any part of the story was fabricated or retracted. Secondly the awards and recognition section needs to be removed completely. The references are youtube videos and the awards actually go to the "church" not the man. Does anyone have any objections? Opinions? Or concerns about these changes? - 4twenty42o (talk) 06:09, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I am in complete agreement with the changes. - Shannon Rose Talk 19:48, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I am waiting to make any changes until everyone involved has a chance to take a look and respond but thank you SR for your input. - 4twenty42o (talk) 00:54, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Changes have been made for about a week or so. There does not appear to be any more serious problems. Does anyone else have any information on Soriano? I would like to expand the article but there appears to be very little information online that is not soaking in controversy. - 4twenty42o (talk) 05:34, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Changes

message: Both articles have descriptions concerning Soriano's 'international fugitive' status. This claim uses a link to a local tabloid paper and a notice at the Interpol website, which the former refers to.
However, there is no such notice in the Interpol website about Eli Soriano. In the Interpol's Red Notice list, there is no Soriano that refers to the preacher, nor is he present in the list of suspects from the Philippines when searching the Interpol database.
I request concerned editors to please rectify Soriano's 'international fugitive' claim by providing reliable sources which are not the two already provided as the source from the Interpol doesn't exist, or remove the line altogether for being a BLP violation. --112.203.97.53 (talk) 06:35, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi anon, nothing in WP:BLP states that archived web pages cannot be used as source. Please review WP:GRAPEVINE. Instead of adhering to BLP, you appear to be reading into it. Misinterpreting policy is wikilawyering. Soriano's fugitive status, along with his being a controversial televangelist, are his claims to notability. In fact there are TV specials that focuses heavily on his fugitive status. Soriano is in WP because he is notable. Nevertheless, he is not notable because he is a televangelist. Wouldn't you agree that there are loads of televangelists in the world who do not deserve any place in an encyclopedia? I'm sure you would. He is also not notable for being a fugitive, for there are also loads of fugitives in world who do not deserve any place in an encyclopedia. Soriano is notable because he is a televangelist and a fugitive at the same time, and this fact is highly-publicized both in print and in television. There are many reliable news sources stating that he is wanted in his own country for sex crimes. And there are those that directly use the word fugitive in reference to Soriano. We cannot say that Soriano used to be a fugitive but is no longer the case, for there exists no reliable source supporting that statement. Soriano is a fugitive, and unless there is evidence(s) stating the contrary, we cannot make such a claim in an encyclopedia. There is absolutely no BLP violation in this article, all statements are properly-sourced and narrated in a way that completely adheres to the context of those sources. – Shannon Rose Talk 00:04, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Suffice to say, Soriano is known by Filipinos due to the controversies surrounding him and not because he is a fugitive. I have to agree with your last statement, Shannon, since there is no "counter-reference" stating that Soriano is no longer or "used to be" a fugitive. To other editors, please stop adding the term "fugitive" on the statements of other people. The reference did not use the term "fugitive". About the lead section of the article, it is more neutral if we place the international fugitive part on the 2nd (still obvious) paragraph of the article. IronBreww (talk) 02:44, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, known by Filipinos is difficult to prove, and does not justify inclusion into an encyclopedia with a worldwide readership. One must be notable or known throughout the world for "something" in order to merit his or her own article in the English Wikipedia (if the subject is just regionally-known, it would be more fitting for him to have an article on the Tagalog WP instead of this one, which is an international reference). That notability can be anything, it does not need to be fame, it could be notoriety, or even inanity. There could only be one reason for notability, and there could also be multiple reasons. Yes, the subject may have started off as being known for minor anomalies, but the fact that he deliberately eluded the law, went to hiding, attempted to trick the courts, left the Philippines with an active arrest warrant, became listed and pictured in the Interpol website as a man wanted in his home country for sex crimes, and the fact that all of these are documented on broadsheet newspapers and featured on TV programs such as this one are enough to add international fugitive to the notability clause, alongside controversial televangelist. The reference used for fugitive is the entire sourced section devoted to that part of his life story. It is an extremely developed and aptly substantiated section describing his activities as a fugitive. The word fugitive used in reference to Soriano's condition also appears in news articles, for example: "An irate Superintendent Abad Osit, chief of the Pandacan police station, ordered Police Officer 3 Jun Gumaru to explain why he should not be held accountable for violating the standard operation procedure (SOP) for the custody of fugitives." (source http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleid=68908) We cannot deny that the statement attributed to Superintendent Abad Osit is directed to our subject and the circumstances surrounding him. After all, the entire article is about Eli Soriano. – Shannon Rose Talk 19:02, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

text: Hi Shannon. Your source is a youtube video that is only broadcasted in the Philippines. As what you've said, Wikipedia needs articles that " are notable or known throughout the world ". Is Mr. Soriano known as a fugitive throughout the world? Or is it he is only known as a fugitive because of this POV Wikipedia article about him? The international fugitive part only became known after you (I think its you, correct me if I am wrong) added it here in Wikipedia, thus "spreading the world around blogs". But, I am not blaming you, since there are references backing your info. But wait a second (watching the video you linked), the video uses the tagalog language and was simply added by an unknown user. Anybody could just create videos that try to destroy Soriano's integrity. If youtube videos are not accepted as good references also because it uses the Tagalog Language, then the "international fugitive" part is not notable since there is not non-Filipino reference (besides the "web archive") backing your claim. Also, Soriano claims that he left the Philippines because of death threats (also "somewhat implied" in the video you "gave" me), can that part be placed here? Last question: I would ask you Ms.(?) Shannon Rose, in the spirit of full disclosure, whether you would be willing to disclose whether you yourself are able to speak Filipino and affliated with a religious group that was criticized by Soriano. (I am  going to study the video you gave me. Thanks for the video.) IronBreww (talk) 02:14, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi IronBreww, there is no WP policy prejudice to references in foreign language. In fact, if you've been around, you will see a lot of articles with French, German, Spanish and other non-English language references. The YouTube video, which can be easily verified to be produced by, and aired in, a 3rd party major network, is not used as reference anywhere in the article anyway. I just gave you the link for the purpose of our discussion here. I'm sorry, but I believe that the spirit of full disclosure is a bit incongruous for an online encyclopedia that has solid policies laid out to protect user anonymity.  – Shannon Rose Talk 11:10, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

text: The problem with you two is that you both believe that Soriano is a fugitive. You users are not trustworthy! What can we expect from editors who are enemies of Soriano...of course they will try to use Wikipedia as a black propaganda tool to destroy and malign Soriano. The Iglesia ni Cristo, having been badly criticized by Soriano, is simply retaliating by charging him with rape cases, among others. Wikipedia Editors: Be more vigilant as these editors (Shannon Rose, IronBreww, Conrad940, 50%Quick, others) are only determined to use Soriano's article in Wikipedia as "black propaganda". I pray that the minds of those editors I mentioned be opened. (If only you knew what political influence the INC has. And only if you knew that some government officials in the Philippines are under the influence of INC.) In a country where corruption, poverty and minor lawlessness (i.e piracy  ), any influential religion could destroy someones credibility.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.191.61.151 (talk) 02:21, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello, Anon. Personal beliefs do not figure in WP articles. Editors simply provide information based on reliable sources. Talk pages are for non-COI editors to discuss ways of improving an article. It is not a forum for your "prayers," theories, conjectures, heartaches, and grudges. Since you find it challenging to communicate with civility, you are gently advised to move away and contribute on articles where you hold no emotional involvement. – Shannon Rose Talk 18:04, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

text: Fixed the issue. The "international fugitive" part cannot be removed because there is still one reference backing it. The portuguese article of Soriano states that the [preacher] edited for BLP concerns - BLP applies to talk page comments as well is in Brazil; it cannot be placed here since it is unreferenced. Please read WP:RS for more details on looking for 3rd party, reliable sources. IronBreww (talk) 04:24, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: BLP requires strict reliable sourcing to include controversial material, wihtout any analysis by wikipedia editors to come to any conclusions. Such sourcing has not been provided for the lead. Active Banana (talk) 14:15, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  BLP violations in Razon and Soriano articles 

message: I've done some research about this [person]  edited for BLP concerns - BLP applies to talk page comments as well and I've found some rumors that he is currently in Brazil. Using Google's search engine this suggestion appears: Eli Soriano Brazil. We need valid references to back this claims. If ever a valid RS is found, I believe that info be placed in the article. IronBreww (talk) 09:00, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I have done some research in the past regarding this but I was unable to find any RS in support of it. So, I simply gave up on the idea. He is there, and there are even videos that clearly imply this, yet RS seem non-existent. Nevertheless, I will again attempt to help you with this. – Shannon Rose Talk 12:47, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brazil? 

message: To summarize here are the issues of the article.
*Pro-Soriano people
**Whitewashing (removing the RS-backed rape case)
**Sockpuppetry
**Failure to discuss their edits in a polite manner
***Known quote(s): We are a marginalized religious minority with powerful enemies in the Philippine media, government and established religion(s).
****The problem with you two is that you both believe that Soriano is a fugitive. You users are not trustworthy! What can we expect from editors who are enemies of Soriano...of course they will try to use Wikipedia as a black propaganda tool to destroy and malign Soriano. The Iglesia ni Cristo, having been badly criticized by Soriano, is simply retaliating by charging him with rape cases, among others. 
*Anti-Soriano people
**Whitewashing (denying the notability of certain awards backed by RS)
**Bad criticism of the subject and company 
**Making it appear that the subject is notable as an "international fugitive" not knowing that he is not known as such in the real world. BE OBJECTIVE. 
***Known quote: ...most anomalous religious syndicate headed by the fugitive Eli Soriano  
My Reaction: ANYONE CAN FILE CHARGES AGAINST A CONTROVERSIAL PREACHER...If I file a case against John Doe and he does not attend the court hearing. Is he now considered a fugitive and that part should be placed in Wikipedia? Think about it! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.28.64.72 (talk) 03:18, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Whitewashing, Tilting and Critics

message: I've increased the coverage of the article and added more references. Now, there are 25 references about the article. The lead section was recently neutralized by another established user and I will not disagree (for now) since the editor's reason is valid. There are still more references, but they might be unnotable to mention. IronBreww (chat) 07:42, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  25 REFERENCES and Counting... 

message: Remove Filipino of Spanish descent. You need to have a source.
68.125.216.237 (talk) 13:37, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request from 68.125.216.237, 27 June 2010 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Eliseo Soriano. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090927035107/http://www.angdatingdaan.org:80/about/about_ministers.htm to http://www.angdatingdaan.org/about/about_ministers.htm
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I hereby request that I be allowed to add information about allegations of wrong-doing and court actions taken against the said subject as reported by major news outlets in his country of origin ( Philippines ). This will make the current article more informative, less biased and more helpful to people who want to know about the good and bad sides of stories surrounding Eliseo Soriano and his profession/line of business. When a popular person whose in Wikipedia is accused of serious crimes, I believe it is our duty to include that information in existing Wikipedia entry to serve public interest. Thank you for reviewing my request. 
Jefferson2016 (talk) 04:11, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone will add them for you, or if you have an account, you can wait until you are autoconfirmed and edit the page yourself. --allthefoxes (Talk)  04:38, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 18 January 2016 

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I have just modified  on Eliseo Soriano. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100613144759/http://newsinfo.inquirer.net:80/breakingnews/nation/view/20090430-202412/SC-upholds-suspension-on-Ang-Dating-Daan to http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/nation/view/20090430-202412/SC-upholds-suspension-on-Ang-Dating-Daan
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071018071141/http://www.angdatingdaan.org/biblicaltopics/bib_apostle_2.htm to http://angdatingdaan.org/biblicaltopics/bib_apostle_2.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20051229091137/http://www.angdatingdaan.org/about/about_ministers.htm to http://angdatingdaan.org/about/about_ministers.htm
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: There are conflicting reports on the date of Soriano's date, understandably due to a difference of timezone in Brazil. Most WP:RS at the moment reports he died on February 12, "early Friday morning" (February 12) which contradicts with the UNTV source that his church confirmed his death on Feb 11 and some source are careful to just say that the announcement of his death, but not the date of his death itself. Also it does not help that sources so far don't mention any time reference to their dates if its local time (Brazil) or Philippine time. So I suggest deferring from placing a date of death on the infobox, or anywhere else in the article as reliable sources presumably gather more info on the circumstances of his death.Hariboneagle927 (talk) 09:40, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: For future reference, this issue has been solved. It is safe to take UNTV, a affiliate news outfit of the subject's church would accurately report the date of his death. If we take for word, reports of other mainstream news that Soriano died on February 12, it does not make sense to list his death as February 12 when UNTV mentions he died on February 11. Take note the Tweet of Dating Daan announcing his death was made around 3am Philippine time hence why some reports says Soriano died "early Friday morning".
Hariboneagle927 (talk) 00:07, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Death date