Talk:Janissary/Archive 1

message: Apparently, it's offensive to Turks to state the truth. Your best soldiers weren't Turkish. The Janissaries, as if it needs to be explained, were Europeans.
The strongest forces were Turkish Spahis and Ghazis, the Janissares were only the best infantries, since the Turks didn´t almost have any other. And there were also Turks who were trained as Janissaries, since it was a very good way to train the soldiers. 
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Who is offended by truth, did even the supposedly Turkish editor of that sentence say that he was offended? Why is the title in capital letters, are you offended by Turks' usage of small letters (except first letters) in the section titles and their habit of adding new comments at the end? deniz 03:43, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  TURKS OFFENDED BY THE TRUTH? 

message: In the article it said janissaries were only aloud to grow mustaches but the picture shows them having both mustaches and beards? So what’s the truth?
:They were only allowed to have mustaches so that is the correct answer. Strange picture that is, maybe it should be deleted... /The Phoenix 08:50, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mustaches or beards or both? 

message: That picture and accompanying text needs to be removed or substituted. It most definitely doesn't show Greek Janissary recruits. The corps had ben destroyed decades earlier and the levy anyway had ceased effectively by the end of the 17th c. The costumes depicted are native Greek not Janissary uniforms.
---I disagree, the painting and text should stay, the jannisaries were still used in the 18th c. despite the fact that they were no longer the great potent forces they had once been. The timar system was still used in the 18th century although it was falling into disuse by then and the Janissaries became no more than a part-time militia, often composed of guildsmen from the towns and chiefly important as a dangerous urban mob.
Also keep in mind that Jean Léon Gérôme painted events of the Greek struggle for independence after they occured, such an example can be seen in the painting of the Greek leader Markos Botsaris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markos_Botsaris ) which was completed by Gerome in 1874, The artist Jean-Leon Gerome was born in 1824, One year after Markos Botsaris died, It shouldn’t come as a surprise though, Gérôme produced many historical paintings portraying characters such as Cleopatra, Cesar, Louis XIV and Moliere (not necessarily together in the same picture) and he also did Genre Painting, infact he did numerous paintings of Janissary corps when he traveled through the Balkans, Anatolia, North Africa and the Levant in the 1800’s, whilst there he painted realistic depictions of scenes from everyday life throughout these areas, and numerous Jannisaries were infact depicted as wearing the Greek kilt (the Foustanella), although it was not the official uniform of the Janissary corps it was being worn, more paintings of jannisaries done by Jean Léon Gérôme can be seen here (http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/art.asp?search=arnaut&aidForm=9) 
And also I have some high quality paintings of Jannisaries which I might add soon
-  The Caption in the First picture is incorrect.  It states that those Greek children converted to Islam, however it does not mention that children in the Janissary Corp were children who were violently kidnapped from Christian villages and forced to convert to Islam.  The children did not have the option, they were forced to convert.  I have changed the caption accordingly... --Xenophonos 03:58, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  WRONG PICTURE AND TEXT 

message: "especially Christian youths and prisoners-of-war" - I was told in school that they were taking them from baby age. Isn't youth for a bit older ages? --www.doc 03:40, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Youths? 

message: Orta does not mean hearth. Ocak which means literally hearth is the proper name for the Janissary organisation. Wearing beards and marriage was banned but from the 17th Century, Janissaries began to ignore these rules and started to engage in trades and craftsmanship. The contradiction with "free Muslims" is wrong since Janissaries were not slaves but carried the title Kapıkulu ("door slave") (among other military devshirmes) as an indicator that they collectively belong to the Sultan's "door". Behemoth 00:27, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some corrections 

message: There was no source provided for the claim that many European Christians were pleased to have their children taken against their will and sent to the Janissaries, and that some actually paid to have this done. As it seems rather extreme and was uncited, I removed it. If somebody can offer legitimate citation then go ahead...
Thank you for removing it.  The reason why it was uncited is because it was untrue.  No one would pay to have their children taken away, to have the heirs of their family enslaved and indoctrinated in killing and to serve only the sultan.  --Xenophonos 01:20, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  No Sources 

message: A very nice start, with lots of pictures, and a wide coverage across the history of the Janissaries. Could use expansion, however, overall, and in particular in the introduction. Instead of simply saying what they were, include at least one sentence about their significance. LordAmeth 18:57, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll try to come up with a significance section. As far as I know, the janissaries were the only standing (permanent) army in the world at the time, a first since Roman times. Also, they were paid cash salary, again a first since Roman times and they long remained the only gov corps in the OE to receive cash payment. They were also a relatively early adopter of firearms and field artillery - I need to check whether they were the first or one of the early adopters. They also were the first to have a regular army band -- playing music before and during the battle. I'll try to substantiate these and come up with a section. --Free smyrnan 08:47, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. --Free smyrnan 22:24, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: WP:MILHIST Assessment

message: This sentence elaborates on how, for Christians, becoming a Janissary was beneficial because:
"as this was one of the only ways for a Christian to advance in the Muslim Ottoman Empire, given their imposed dhimmi status"
It is false and paradoxical.  How can a Christian attain a higher status if he was already forced to convert to Islam.  Christians were forced to convert... and of course after converting to Islam, that person was no longer a Christian.  This sentence has to be revised.  --Xenophonos 23:07, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have been bold and just excised the whole sentence until a citation can be provided. It's been long enough since the tag went up and it can easily be reinstated if a source is produced. InvictaHOG 02:37, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Doesn't Make Sense 

message: In Ottoman Turkish, the nasal n (ng) is spelled with a ك (kef). This particular spelling I have checked from Aşıkpaşazade, so this is the way contemporary documents spell it. The n in yeni is no longer nasal in modern Turkish, but it originally was nasal (yengi) and it is incorrect to spell it with a nun. --Free smyrnan 21:04, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Spelling of Janissary in Ottoman Turkish

message: The pictures show the Janissaries with beard. But that is forbidden in Ottoman Army, the Turkish soldiers(I mean their origin is Turkish) could have beards but Janissaries were not allowed. The sentence from the article prove that. 
:Unlike other Muslims, they were expressly forbidden to wear beards (a Muslim custom), only a moustache. These rules were obeyed by Janissaries, at least until 18th century when they also began to engage in other crafts and trades, breaking another of the original rules. 
And the picture "Young Greeks at the Mosque" is also wrong. Firstly the mosques bottom is not covered with marmor or any stone. They are covered with carpets(but under of the carpet is of course stone) because using shoes in mosques forbidden. Also there is no ceremony in Islam about converting to Islam, when a person says Shahadah that person is become a Muslim. I think the painter thought that Islam have a ceremony like Christians Baptism. And that is a typical oriantalistic thought. If no one has a objection to my claims, I'll remove the pictures from the article. 
Ruzgar 21:32, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have removed the pictures. Ruzgar 13:36, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong Pictures 

message: The name janissary or janizary derives from the Ottoman Turkish: يكيچرى (yeniçeri) meaning "new soldier", with slight variations in other languages: in Albanian: Jeniçer; in Greek: Γενίτσαροι (Yenitsari); in Bulgarian: еничари (enichari) or яничари (yanichari);  in Bosnian: Janjičari; in Croatian: Janjičari; in Macedonian: Јаничари; in Serbian: Јањичари or Janjičari; in German: Janitscharen; in French: Janissaires; in Polish Janczaria or Janczarzy; in Romanian: ieniceri; in Hungarian Janicsárok; in Arabic: الانكشارية. 
They all seem to be 'yeniceri', and I don't see relevancy. Please pay attention to WP:SOAPBOX in your comments. DenizTC 15:41, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  moving the names here 

message: or (derived from Ottoman Turkish: [جان نثاری (Janisari/Canisari) meaning "One who is devoted enough to give his life")
I've moved this from the article until a source is provided, because I've never heard this version of the etymology; for example, it is not mentioned either in the text or the commentary to the translation of the Ottoman Turkish work "Crown of histories", which deals with them at length and which I'm reading at the moment. --91.148.159.4 (talk) 18:14, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Etymology

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BetacommandBot (talk) 23:08, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Hatemisoldier.jpg

message: Janissaries figure prominently in Neal Stephenson's Baroque Cycle novels. If there are other treatments in literature, film, etc., then perhaps a section can be added. Joshua R. Davis (talk) 15:41, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Janissary in fiction? 

message: The Ottoman Empire did not recruited large numbers of Romanians into the Janissary Army Core! The Romanian lands of  Wallachia, Moldova and Transsylvania where mantained into a vasal status to the Ottomans and Janissary recruitment was specifically forbidden. The only Romanian Janissary hails from the small Romanian communities of the Northern Dobrudja, the Vidin-Timok area and from the sparse Aromanian communities of Macedonia, Pindus Mountains (Greece) and Southern Albania. Overall, the numbers of Janissary of Romanian origin is insignificant. Please correct the article !  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.196.150.157 (talk) 08:09, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I have fixed it but I hope some guy doesn't come and change it again. The devarmeshire was never practiced in the Romanian principalities.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.167.70.117 (talk) 20:53, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Romanian Janissary?!?!