Talk:Yisroel Belsky

message: Until today, "Haredi" was in the first paragraph, which makes sense to me, given the Torah Vodaas connections. Today, Jayrav removed "Haredi", I suppose because of his OU work; but if so, then we should also delete him from Category:Haredi rabbis in the United States. Here's the critical question: Anyone know whether or not he considers himself to be charedi? --Keeves 12:10, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a really stupid distinction. It's very approximate and both ways are fine to be sure. - CrazyRussian talk/email 12:17, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying that it is stupid to distinguish between Haredi and non-Haredi, or that you disagree with my comparison (that Torah Vodaas is Charedi and OU is not)? If the former, well, I agree with you; I don't like these labels either, but the world does use them, and the text of the article should be consistent with the categories at the bottom. If the latter, please share your view on how to define the groups. --Keeves 13:02, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Haredi? 

message: I deleted most, if not all, of the biased material. Someone who actually knows some facts about Rabbi Belsky should rewrite this article. 70.107.0.34 (talk) 00:09, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bias 

message: Do not make changes to this article without consulting the Rosh Yeshiva. Goldenpupik is a talmid and is following the direction of the Rosh Yeshiva. Retzono zeh kvodo! And his wisdom is greater than ours. Leave the article as it has been edited by Goldenpupik, unless reshus is given to do otherwise. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Goldenpupik (talk • contribs) 03:44, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: NOTE: Ignore the previous posting. The user who posted it is blocked from editing this page. The demand that he remain in control of the page is against all Wikipedia guidelines (see WP:OWN). --Nat Gertler (talk) 02:30, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  PLEASE 

message: please put up this photo
http://matzav.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/rav-yisroel-belsky.jpg
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.167.23.50 (talk) 12:37, 2 May 2010
:Need evidence that the image complies with Wikipedia:Image use policy. DMacks (talk) 21:30, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photo 

message: alter photographs and sourced text in news reports is absolutely not having "a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy" and fails WP:RS.
He has had an article here since 2006. The Kolko scandal did not make him notable. He had high positions with Yeshiva Torah Vodaas, The Orthodox Union, and Agudath Israel of America, all of which have articles here. Enigmamsg 18:43, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: The fact that an article existed since 2006 does not mean that it should have existed since 2006. Per WP:GNG "Information on Wikipedia must be verifiable; if no reliable third-party sources can be found on a topic, then it should not have a separate article." The vast majority of edits on this article happened when he died and very few editors probably saw the piece before. To me it seems that it is biased is to include non-WP:RS because the content that certain editors want to include cannot be found in WP:RS. There are many rabbis who have a lot of coverage in WP:RS. If he were so well known for something why doesn't a single WP:RS discuss it and isn't the fact that it is not in WP:RS by definition the reason not to include it in Wikipedia?--Jersey92 (talk) 04:34, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: "The fact that an article existed since 2006 does not mean that it should have existed since 2006." The article was up for over 9 years and I didn't see a single person challenge his notability. Since his death, all of a sudden there's a swarm that want to make him out to be a NAMBLA member or something. Enigmamsg 05:40, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

text: Same issue here. Putting it in the lead of the article gives it undue weight given that it was a minor footnote of Belsky's career. He rendered opinions on many things. Why are they mostly not found in reliable sources? It's pretty simple. Reliable sources have no interest in most of the things he was involved with. Reliable sources report on scandals. Since it is mentioned in reliable sources, it is proper to mention it in the article, but not to feature it in the lead. He was not a child molestor, nor was he an advocate for child molestors. What happened with Kolko, from what I see, is that he defended Kolko before he knew of Kolko's guilt. Enigmamsg 05:56, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Aren't there many rabbis who have received coverage in WP:RS during their career? As you know it is WP:RS that cause a subject to pass WP:GNG, not people saying someone is notable or had a notable career.If the primary WP:RS about him discuss primarily the abuse scandal how is that a minor footnote to a career by Wikipedia standards? Isn't that what he is notable for? You cited Kesher Israel as an example but that article has many WP:RS cited about other things making the scandal in the lead WP:UNDUE. If Belsky wrote books which it says in the article maybe there is material written about those works? That would also help add material to this article. As far as notability, there can be articles that nobody lists for AfD because nobody actually reads the article. This article appears to have had very little traffic until he died. Also, I am sure that you are aware that there have been articles that were live for years and then removed for problems even worse. Remember Bicholim Conflict? --Jersey92 (talk) 15:14, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: "Isn't that what he is notable for?" No, it's not at all what he's notable for. Again, he held high positions with three notable organizations for years. "Aren't there many rabbis who have received coverage in WP:RS during their career?" I think you wrote that incorrectly. The vast majority of articles on rabbis on Wikipedia do not have much coverage in WP:RS during their careers. Belsky has had coverage in WP:RS other than the scandal (see the references in the article), but not a lot (as with the vast majority of rabbis with articles). Enigmamsg 15:22, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: What we're getting into here is really a problem with how Wikipedia uses the term "notable". Out there in the real world, it means "worthy of note", but here in Wikipedialand, it is used to mean "noted" - our way of measuring notability is to see what reliable sources have bothered to note. I may be worthy of note for my sheer handsomeness and my ability to discern between butter and I Can't Believe It's Not Butter, but any Wikipedia coverage of me is going to be based on public coverage which is likely to ignore those things. If the times that the subject here was covered in reliable sources focused on controversy, then yes, we should give it weight. However, the introduction is intended to be a summary of the article, and that includes covering swaths more briefly. May I suggest that we reduce the currently argued sentence "Belsky was criticized for his repeated support of a sexual abuser and for his alleged intimidation of abuse victims whom he publicly stated must not report their having been raped to the police", with "Belsky faced criticism for his statements in reaction to sexual abuse accusations made against a Jewish camp counselor", thus allowing the details of what was said, what was later said that he meant, etc., to play out fully in the proper section. --Nat Gertler (talk) 16:24, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds fine to me. I think I have already spent too much time on this article.--Jersey92 (talk) 18:32, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

text: I still maintain that this doesn't belong in the lead as it was in no way reflective of the individual in question (see comments about WP:UNDUE) but at least it's better than it was before. Enigmamsg 18:11, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Reliable sources have noted many more things about Belsky than just this scandal.  They have noted that he counseled loads of people with their marriages, ran a court (Jewish Press), ran a newspaper (Forum), had an eclectic set of interests (physics, astronomy, as well as of course Jewish law (Mishpacha), gave popular “Ask the Rav” sessions (Hamodia). So why this focus on the scandal, when he afterward said exactly the opposite of the words Jewish Week tried to put in his mouth? Lyst10 (talk) 04:28, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: If there are articles about him that are in WP:RS please share them. I don't know the sources that you mentioned and I don't have time to check them. But you mentioned Hamodia which I did check, and if the others are similar they are not WP:RS. I gave examples above why Hamodia is absolutely not WP:RS = altering photographs and sourced text in news reports is absolutely not having "a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy". Please see what User:NatGertler wrote about notability. Wikipedia has a certain definition and standard. It is more objective than people saying someone is notable. In 2015 anybody can publish anything.--Jersey92 (talk) 05:53, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

text: Coverage of a controversy does not exclude coverage of other matters; if properly sourced, the article, including the introduction, can be expanded. --Nat Gertler (talk) 14:45, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  He is obviously notable beyond an opinion on a sex abuse scandal 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Yisroel Belsky. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20150725000610/http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/01/national/01kosher.html?_r=1&pagewanted=print&position= to http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/01/national/01kosher.html?_r=1&pagewanted=print&position=
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Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 17:11, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This article is just a collection of everything Belsky ever did that could be portrayed in a negative light, and then portraying those things in the most negative way possible. 
No mention of what a renowned scholar he was, of his knowledge of science, firm rationalism, careful investigation into the most practical aspects of complex halachic questions, etc. Needs a lot of work.  High Leader (talk) 00:56, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Entirely non objective