Talk:Vespa

message: The name Vespa, also referes to the sound of the wasp, and the old 2-stroke engines.
Comment: This may be true for many users, but there are no sources indicating the engine sound as a reason for the original choice of name.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.241.198.254 (talk) 20:10, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Vespa Name

message: didn't vespa make a 3 wheel pickup?
:True, Vespa also has been producing three wheel pickups . These vehicles are called Piaggio Ape and are still in production. In fact, until today they are an important asset to small businesses. Capable of passing through the narrowest streets, they are the perfect means for transporting all kinds things in the typical Italian villages and cities.
===Engine Cooling===
The article says, "...but a blower was soon attached to the transmission to push air over the cylinder's cooling fins (the modern Vespa engine is still cooled this way)..."  
Actually, cooling is accomplished via a finned flywheel which is attached to one side of the crankshaft. (This comment is not mine, but instead moved from the main text of the article.)--Seanh 02:15, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Your finned flywheel is almost certainly the blower mentioned in the article...For current models I found Ram air with secondary air system.  I also found a liquid cooled model.--Scribner 08:16, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Pick-Up

message: The article says, "...but a blower was soon attached to the transmission to push air over the cylinder's cooling fins (the modern Vespa engine is still cooled this way)..."  
Actually, cooling is accomplished via a finned flywheel which is attached to one side of the crankshaft. (This comment is not mine, but instead moved from the main text of the article.)--Seanh 02:15, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Your finned flywheel is almost certainly the blower mentioned in the article...For current models I found Ram air with secondary air system.  I also found a liquid cooled model.--Scribner 08:16, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Engine Cooling

message: As would be suspected, the number of external links is again picking up. I suppose we shouldn't be surprised - when I sectioned the external links section, I purposefully made it fairly easy to add your favourite website to the list. However, as always some unregistered editors have added their sites in the wrong place. If we apply wiki rules to the letter, then only non-commercial websites which add information can be linked to - so goodbye all the BBS and other great information on commercial websites. I also think from other articles, that removing all such sites is both impossible and not practical - people who run these sites are often the best source of creating/improving articles. What does anyone else think? Should we limit it to say five BBS fourms, or should we vote on which ones to keep - both things which have occured on other articles. Rgds, - Trident13 10:59, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK editors - here's what I have done:
**Looked at my last consolidation of the external links, and noted comments above. I think we have to accept some fan/dealer sites because they do add information here which would take up a lot of space/time for us to add little value to the article as an encyclopedic entry. If they add value/insight, then they can be added under wiki rules
**I have kept some non-English sites here, because if you have a pre-70's bike you probaby can read enough Italian to be able to buy parts which are only now available from Italy. The italian forums add a lot of information to the understanding of older bikes/readers of the article
**Culled the remainder down to what I viewed as essential - please feel free to cull some more if you have commented on this page/forum first. I found one that says: "I have added a link at wiki to get some more members, because if I don't this BBS will close down." I guess he's closing down...
**Added a warning, only visible in the edit text: "WARNING TO ALL - add your commercial, BBS or spam website here without first registering at Wiki AND discussing in on the Discussion page of this article, and it WILL be deleted. You have been warned"
**Noted my last edit as the reference edit on External Links - if in doubt, reference from this edit on external links
**Request semi-protection of the article, therefore not allowing anon's to add such spam sites
**If this doesn't work, then I think once we have all agreed a reasonable list of external links, we should ask to fully-protect the article from editing for a period, to stop these forums/commercial sites being added. Rgds, - Trident13 05:18, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

text: The best thing to do would be to submit the link to DMOZ.org, the Open Directory Project.  You might also want to think about incorporating the videos into a how-to article over at Wikibooks, .  There are lots of good places to put useful information that is not appropriate for an encyclopedia.  The policy on external linking is at Wikipedia:External links and the section dealing with inappropriate links is WP:ELNO.--Dbratland (talk) 02:31, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: External links

message: The article is getting a bit long, so before it gets a "too long" tag, I was thinking of stubbing a few sections. Firstly, the Riders section - a good list which is a bit too long. Secondly, most motorcycle articles move the models section list to a stub. Thoughts? Rgds, - Trident13 11:02, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Vespa Owners

message: I was doing the monthly culling of the external links, and noticed that this website has referenced us here at Wiki as having the best list of real/fictional riders! I therefore assume that the anon editor 71.255.194.222 who added them as the "official" Vespa blog, and their sole edit on Wiki - was pulling our leg on that occasion. Keep up the good work all - no wonder why we are being hit by loads of anon's to get on the external links list. Rgds, - Trident13 04:42, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Perhaps we're getting too good at this article stuff?

message: Please, why no link to "spaceball spaceballs"?
Thank You.
[[ hopiakuta  | [[ %c2%a1 %c2%bf  %7e%7e%7e%7e  -]] 16:25, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Done - excellent suggestion! Its the external links not the articles additions we want to manage. Rgds, - Trident13 18:55, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Much like many of the other pages on this website, even knowing that it's there, it's yet difficult to locate.
Maybe someone would invent software that would simplify it all.
"*Spaceballs - the character Princess Vespa of Druidia is blatantly based on the Vespa in the Mel Brooks movie"
Thank You,
[[ hopiakuta  | [[ %c2%a1 %c2%bf  %7e%7e%7e%7e  -]] 23:34, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Spaceballs]] 

message: Sorry if I mess this up but I'm fairly new to the art of Wikipedia.  I have a non-commercial site that I think would be of great interest all all Vespa owners.  So I'm hoping I've followed the procedures correctly and that everyone gets a chance to view and approve it.  Please let me know if you have any questions.  Best regards, Warren  Quietleader 21:15, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure of the value to the article BUT I like the content and its certainly non-commercial. Gets my vote for retention. Rgds, - Trident13 20:10, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: http://italy.culturaltravel.net

message: Hello, i listed the link to one of the largest vespa communities Community and even though there is a commercial site behind the community is very well visited and a great source for everyone into Vespa. Beside the community there are user blogs and galleries and I see no reason why the link was deleted. I added the link again and would be happy if you keep it. Thanks. Sipsepp 07_01_07
:And I removed it again - sorry! Having speedy delete tagged your article on Sip-Scootershop today (and see it later removed), I am still not convinced of the value of this link above those we already have, and the large amount of commercial content. Rgds, - Trident13 20:08, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: sip-scootershop.com

message: What about junk Vespas? It seems worth mentioning that some less-than-roadworthy vespas are making an appearance on city streets due to the renewed popularity in vintage bikes. I'm guessing that some nonzero number of folks interested in a vintage scooter would come across the Wikipedia page at some point, and it has (unfortunately) become a significant issue in vintage scootering. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.246.144.133 (talk) 05:48, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Junk? 

message: As an employee of genuine scooter company/ Scooterworks, i can authoritatively say that the Stella/Star cross translation is a bacronym invented by outside sources after the fact, and is unverifyable. 
Rob Hodge
24.12.75.116 03:49, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Could we not create a replicas section within the article? OK, so one model has six springs versus seven on its clutch - still looks 90/95% like a vespa on the skin above, plus this ignores the fact that these replicas are/were licensed from the Vespa factory. We are an encyclopedia, not an authoritive guide to Vespa maintenance. Rgds, - Trident13 09:06, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  star/stella translation 

message: Don't you think this section is rather trivial?  Is it necessary in an encyclopedia? — hippi ippi++++ 09:24, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Could be argued either way - but like other style icons, the link between the two is now both blured and mutual. The mass popularity of the Vespa was launched on the back of a film, and filmstars of the 50's/60's used them around the sets and so the brand gained additional publicity. If your point was posed as "is it too big" I would probably agree with that (we could remove everything without a reference), but the list is attracting a large number of people to the article and introducing them to Wikipedia, and it keeps our trivia in one section. Having seen how the car project group have tried and failed to maintain their no trivia/no owners policy (or even define it properly), its something we could do but have to be practical with. We have "won" the trivia external links battle through a clear policy and diligence - I still gain a few scars occasionally managing it with others! If a clear agreement and policy could be defined by those who have added/police this article, I would be happy to support. Rgds, - Trident13 09:58, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

text: No reply, so I have removed the section again.--SeizureDog 08:08, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Look a little more carefully, there is a reply (or at least a concern about the removal) on this talk page, see Talk:Vespa#The list of films/riders" --Nick Penguin 21:04, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vespas in pop culture - is there a point? 

message: I removed 2 pictures today. One is the Russian scooter. It is not a Vespa nor is it a decent copy. The reference link calls it "a perfect Russian copy of the most famous scooter of the world!". It is as much of a copy as the Bajaj Chetak looks like a Vespa. I also removed the picture of the 2 vespa's. What are they? New when? I would like to delete the picture of the 150 as it is not a very good picture at all.--Rally180 05:40, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good clean up. I might have tried to keep the Russian photo in some way, but you have a fair point. The picture of the 150 is poor, so happy to support removal. Rgds, - Trident13 09:03, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pictures 

message: "Vespa was much more widely used in the 1950s and 60s, when it also became the adopted vehicle of choice for the UK youth-culture known as Mods."
Did Mods really prefer Vespas, or just scooters in general?  If I understand correctly, Mods would ride either Vespas or Lambrettas, or maybe even Heinkel Tourists if they had enough money or BSA Sunbeams if they weren't yet clued in to BSA Sunbeams' quality problems. Respectfully, SamBlob 16:53, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Didn't Mods use Lambrettas as often as Vespas? 

message: Re posted from the talk page of Trident13
:I am new to this whole thing and I was reading all the warnings about external links. My wife (who suffers from Lupus) and I run a Vespa rental business in Miami and we also have a Vespa-Share program and our members are called "Greenie's." I think we are the only Vespa-Share program in the country identical to the Car-share programs that exist in NY, Chicago, and Boston. I wanted  you to take a look and let me know what section (if not a section of it's own) this info should go in based on this articles large scope of info. Again I am new to this and yes this would be a way for us to drive people to our web site and yes we would benefit from it if people became members but I think our service is the only service in North America and we all have to do our share to reduce our carbo-emmissions. Let me know what you think of the link and if or when I can add it to the article? Q Fortune
::Hi! Thanks for your message re the Vespa article. I have had a look at your website, which perhaps at present looks a little bit under developed. I looked around it, but can't find out the scale of your present operation - how many bikes do you have? I would say at present most of the main contributors would see your addition of a link as "spam" or failing WP:EXT - perhaps if it included some information about and why vespas? To start a debate on whether to/to not add a link, I have posted your piece on my talk page to the articles talk page. However, if you want a quicker and more likely positive outcome, and you like Vespa's and think you could add information to the present Wikipedia article before you add your link, then most of our best contributors are also commercial operations owners, some of whom have links at the bottom as a concession. Add some information on Vespa's, build up a consistent edit record, and go from there. If you have any questions, come back to me. Best Regards, --Trident13 13:06, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vespa Share program 

message: Thankfully, Rally180 reverted an edit by a well known editor, and reinserted what was seen as a "trivia" section. I kind of understand where this editor is coming from, but have always personally had the perspective that if you don't appreciate how important films and star-riders were to the development of the Vespa as a global icon, you probably don't understand Vespa or its communal/comeraderie culture. I think the section is getting a bit long, but I don't want to lose the information contained within. Anyone have any thoughts? Rgds, - Trident13 14:56, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I think a good start would be attempting to merge the list of Fictional Characters that have ridden Vespas and the list of Films featuring vespas, since these lists are (or should/could) be virtually the same. And perhaps trimming some of the famous vespa riders section down only to entries that have a citation, that might help raise the quality of these sections and still retain the information. EDIT Perhaps it would also be useful to tell readers what these "famous people" are supposed to be famous for, since I don't instantly recognize all of them for their fame. --Nick Penguin 22:47, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have attempted to cleanup this section, but only by representing the information contained therein; I would ask that other users help find citations for these facts. Any "Famous Vespa riders" that had no citation I have removed, and I leave the following list here for others to find citations for --Nick Penguin 22:52, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

text: I'd be open to moving it to its own article.--Father Goose (talk) 01:38, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: The list of films/riders

message: There are lots of wonderful references at the end of this article. HOWEVER, only 10 of them are linked within the main text. This seems to be an error--because as it stands now, most of the article appears completely unreferenced. I don't know how to fix, unfortunately.Williamroy3 (talk) 20:33, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference issues 

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Haruko2.png

message: Is there any reason not to have this image in the article?  I find it reasonable to have at least one picture of a current model in the article.  However, for greater visual variety, perhaps the 1998 and 2008 pictures could be moved further apart?--Father Goose (talk) 00:44, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Following my own suggestion, I've moved the 2008 picture to the "Current models" section, and moved the whole "models" section above the "popular culture section", as it is higher-priority information.--Father Goose (talk) 00:53, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Just FWIW, a picture of just the Vespa without the distraction of the guy riding it would be better - the cropping isn't ideal either (looks like there's a bus or something behind him, so it's been cropped "short"?).  FlagSteward (talk) 15:30, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture no picture picture no picture 

message: I'm just passing through, but as a general comment - the article looks great, with a bit more referencing you'd probably get a WP:GA - until you get to the "famous people with Vespas" list.  Which reads as a "sort of famous people whose buttocks have touched a Vespa" list. Lisa Rogers may have many achievements, but contributing to the mystique of the Vespa is not one of them.  The trouble is that any list like that is pretty much fundamentally flawed because everyone starts adding their pet favourite.  Much better to avoid a straight list and incorporate into the history sections a handful of people who have genuinely contributed to the development of the brand.  Ditto with the films - I'd be tempted to shift most of them into a new article "Scooters in popular culture" or some such.  While those articles often get non-encyclopaedic, Champagne in popular culture is an example of one that gets it "right" IMO. Incorporate or splinter out that stuff, add a few more references, and you should be on for GA. FlagSteward (talk) 15:30, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Incorporate or splinter the pop culture lists

message: Firstly lets look at the innacuracies on this page:
The Vespa owes very little to the Cushman (or its predecessor, the Welbike) other than its step through frame, which in turn can be traced back to step through motorised scooters from the mid 1920s, I'll find some source material to give examples.  The Lambretta owes more to the Wellbike than the Vespa with its tubular spar frame. 
While the Vespa wasn't the first vehicle to use a monocoque frame, it was certainly almost unique in the scooter world and possibly owes nothing to any other two wheeled vehicle.
It most certainly isn't a spar framed machine and never has been. It is a pressed steel monocoque frame with two stengthening struts across the floor area.
The glove box area is not a 'twin skin' arrangement. Until (possibly) the newer automatic Vespas, it has always been a single sheet of steel. The tool or glove box wasn't a feature until the mid sixties, 20 years after the first Vespas.
The story of the naming of the scooter is also somewhat dubious - D'Asconio has denied this story (As far as I know there is no confirned reference to it from Enrico Piaggio either) and also it is claimed that the name has come from the top down view of the Vespa which does lend itself to the wasp shape. Again, I'm happy to find the source for that (Scootering magazine IIRC)
Ommissions:
While the Vespa is best known in the public eye as a place to hang copious amounts of chrome plated accesories, the custom scooter scene is heavily dependant on these machines, so why no mention of this and the whole scooterist/scooterboy scene worldwide that has spring up over the last 30 years? 
Also, small frame Vespas are reknown for their handling abilities, so reference to their performance on the track may be needed? Norrie Kerrs LC SS90s for example, or Terry Franklands black beasts of the 80s, and then perhaps onto the german streetfighters of today, nicely dovetailing into the racing article?
Yours in scootering etc Scooternik (talk) 00:44, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Irrelevancies and possible missing features 

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thread_title: Image copyright problem with Image:Roman holiday.jpg

message: At a meeting on June 3, 2010 in Milan (Italy) chaired by Roberto Colaninno, the Board of Directors of Piaggio & C. S.p.A. approved the strategic guidelines and industrial plan of a new Piaggio Group initiative in India for the production and sale of two-wheel vehicles, beginning with a Vespa LX 125 model specially developed for the Indian market, according to a communication from Piaggio Italy.The plan approved by the Piaggio Board of Directors provides for the construction of a new facility in India to produce up to 150,000 units/year and the launch of a Vespa LX 125 model by the end of 2012. The Plan will entail investments totalling 30 million euro (Rs 168.7 crore approximately) in financial years 2010 and 2011, with the goal of achieving revenues of approximately 70 million euro (Rs 393.61 crore approximately) in 2015 – when investment payback is projected – on sales of approximately 110,000 scooters. The investment is covered by the programmes drawn up under the Three-Year Plan approved by the Group Board of Directors on 2 July 2009.
The new Piaggio industrial initiative in India will have the support of the Group’s local industrial and commercial operations through the Piaggio Vehicles Private Ltd. subsidiary, whose extraordinary growth – from 35,000 vehicles produced and sold in 2003 to more than 182,000 in 2009 – has established Piaggio as the leader in three-wheel light commercial vehicles on the Indian market.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.177.132.253 (talk) 07:30, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The above is copied from a 7 June 2010 Piaggio press release.--Dbratland (talk) 15:08, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vespa scooters will be back in India by 2012 

message: Greetings Vespa Editors,
I was trying to find a discussion about why an external link was deleted. In January 2007, a link was added to this Vespa page that pointed to http://italy.culturaltravel.net and the description for that link was "cultural exploration on a Vespa."
Now, more than 3 years later, it seems that link has been removed and I was tying to figure out why.  Can someone tell me where I would find the discussion about keeping/deleting that link?
Many Thanks!
Quietleader (talk) 01:09, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It got removed in this edit by Dbratland in early December. Since you were last here, there is sub-change in policy on external links. Now, if articles attract too many links, we are enforcing the policy of adding a link to DMOZ, the Open Directory Project - which is what Dbratland rightly did, by removing yours and some other long time links. At Dmoz you get a follow link, where as here all you get - at best - is traffic. Dmoz are a focused group on links to good quality websites and blogs, and will accept more than Wikipedia will (ie: even commercial). Yours should pass into DMOZ with ease, but it may take some time and it always helps to add their search box to your blog/website somewhere. Hope that helps - Rgds, - Trident13 (talk) 01:26, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Looking for a specific discussion: External links 

message: There has to be changed a couple items in the article. The LX, LXV and S aren't produced anymore, so they have to be removed from current. While there are a lot of them, on 1 May 2014 the last LX was rolled out the factory. Those models are replaced by the Primavera and Sprint.
Sprint will follow the Vespa S footsteps, and the Primavera will be the next LX.
Available in Europe in: Primavera/Sprint 2T 50cc, and 4T 50cc 2v/4v, 4T 125cc 3v, 4T 150cc 3v.
And a picture in the article will fit too.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.172.3.184 (talk) 17:20, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  LX and S removal at current, introducing Primavera & Sprint 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I removed the claim that "The Vespa is best known for it's appearance in the movie Mean Girls 2, being rode by main character Jo Mitchell, played by Meaghan Martin", for several reasons:
:1. There is no source provided to support this claim. A claim like this must have a source before it can be added to the article.
:2. It is highly unlikely that any source will ever be found because there is no conceivable way to determine what Vespa is best known for.
:3. Mean Girls 2 is a telemovie which never had a theatrical release. It is doubtful that it has been seen by enough people worldwide - people who not only saw the movie but actually noticed the scooter was a Vespa - to make the claim true. Furthermore, the scooter in the movie Roman Holiday was a Vespa. Certainly more people have seen Roman Holiday - a very famous movie starring Audrey Hepburn and Gregory Peck - than Mean Girls 2. So even if it were true that the Vespa is best known for appearing in a movie - a highly dubious claim which could never be proven - it would more likely be known for Roman Holiday than Mean Girls 2.
This claim must not be put back in the article without a source, or without discussion here on the Talk page. If it is put back in the article without a reliable source, and without a discussion, it will be removed. Thanks very much for your cooperation. FillsHerTease (talk) 07:59, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, it's nonsense. Probably a troll. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 20:14, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Dennis Bratland (talk) - HA HA HA! Yes ... well ... there's that too! ;-) FillsHerTease (talk) 04:02, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Best known for appearance in Mean Girls 2 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Vespa were also manufactured in Germany (see https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vespa#Vespa_in_Deutschland). 89.183.230.187 (talk) 07:21, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Production outside Italy 

message: This is a completely different model like the vespa lx and gts, with peculiar characteristics such as the saddle, the aluminum construction and the horizontal rear shock suspension. He also received the golden compass award 2016. The merger do in 2016 was made without discussion or prior consent. 93.150.218.40 (talk) 09:53, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Division Vespa 946