Talk:Tom Pryce

message: Who is this guy on this video:  (Pause it at 1:27) Is it Van Vuuren or Pryce? --Skully Collins Review Me! Please? 11:09, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The Video

message: There is a discussion on how to represent UK drivers in F1 articles going on at WikiProject Formula One. It looks as if the consensus is going to be to stick with the current agreement, which is that all drivers from the United Kingdom are referred to by their passport nationality of British, both in their articles and in race results. This maintains consistency with the official results and avoids the project having to judge whether or not a particular driver considers themselves to be English, Irish, Welsh or 'independent Truronian'. Birthplace and place of residence will of course be included in the article as well.
Editors who have an objection to this are encouraged to raise theirs views over at WP:F1.
Meanwhile I'm going to leave this article as it is until the 7 December before changing it to whatever the final consensus is. Continual back and forth isn't going to get us anywhere. 4u1e 17:12, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I edited this article whilst you were writing the above comment, so apologies for that, but surely this is a forgone conclusion? Bretonbanquet 17:17, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it is. However, I wouldn't want to be accused later of having rushed it through without allowing time for anyone to object. It the wider scheme of things it's no problem to wait a few days. Me not reverting this article again is a personal thing. I've got no objection to anyone else doing it - it's just that observation of a recent series of edit wars (guess who!) makes me think that sometimes it's useful to let things cool off a bit! 4u1e 07:27, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nationality of UK drivers 

message: Hi. Just a thought, but ought we really to be providing direct links to Amazon pages for reference books? The ISBN system links through to book seller searches, and I don't think that it is Wikipedia's place to be indirectly advertising Amazon's (admittedly first class) service. After all, as the BBC might say, other book traders are available. Pyrope 16:12, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've been picked up on that one as well at FA review. Apparently we shouldn't link to Amazon - I picked up the habit from other articles, and should now be removing them all. Another task I'm not looking forward to. 4u1e 17:15, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Amazon links 

message: In 2007, it was annouced that Pryce would have a statue of himself erected in his home town of Ruthin.
Considering that he died in '77, it would be a bit difficult to erect his own statue. Needs to be fixed to mean that the town council (or whatever) is erecting a statue in honor of him. Coradon 16:47, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  This line needs changing 

message: Overall this is pretty good, just wondering if there was a way to add the helmet information somewhere into the article, seems somewhat out of place in its own section.--Wizardman 19:44, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I agree with you. I originally had it down under his career section, like I did with Damon Hill's article. I believe Pyrope moved it. Anyway, I'll move the section under his career and thanks for the review, I was personally looking for the words: POV, Weasel Words, etc because this is an article I'm a bit attatched too, if you know what I mean.--Skully Collins Edits 16:04, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay. I think you id pretty good for prose and style, that didn't seem to be an issue.--Wizardman 14:28, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA Review 

message: I question the inclusion of the Lotus 79 image in this article. Whilst I don't doubt what the caption says, it's a bit of a moot point, isn't it? I mean, given the nature of the accident, Pryce could just as easily have been killed driving a Lotus at Kyalami in '77 as a Shadow, in which case he still would never have driven the Lotus 79. DH85868993 (talk) 12:09, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a fair point, one I think was raised during one of the reviews. A more appropriate free use picture has become available in the past few days, which could possibly be used to replace it. I see the only free use pic we have of Pryce is already being used in the article. It's either the L79 picture or no picture. AlexJ (talk) 00:16, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd vote for "no picture". DH85868993 (talk) 10:03, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed; it's pure speculation. Pryce never drove for Lotus, much less in that car. Flanker235 (talk) 10:31, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I've removed it. DH85868993 (talk) 08:24, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lotus 79 image 

message: I'm a bit confused about the 1974 section, specifically about Token. "The team itself was created by Tony Vlassopulos and Ken Grob after the original Token team closed down in 1973 due to a lack of finanicial backing; which lead to the end of the Rondel Racing outfit." was this original Token team an F1 team, and was it related to either Rondel or the new Token team? AlexJ (talk) 15:02, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Token

message: There appears to be some evidence that Van Vuuren's death was not as gorey as is commonly described, but can someone do the deeper research to find the actual sources needed to show it?
See:https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5Xo7LDsOHquSnhaaThoRTE3V0U/view?pref=2&pli=1
Above link sourced from youtube video comments here:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q99k2r6GeS4
The picture link itself is not source grade, but I see little reason to doubt the authenticity of the Van Vuuren body picture seen.
Can someone find solid sources here for this?  
Supplemental: This pdf document was where the jpg images via drive.google came from: https://www.docdroid.net/NvSrcZQ/frederik-janse-van-vuuren-death-photos.pdf.html
but even though it looks like it came from a contemporary newspaper, there is still no primary source referenced. Can someone please get on top of this? 104.55.4.109 (talk) 06:55, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Death 

message: The text at Death#Aftermath refers to Pryce's memorial in Ruthin. I've found two suitable images of it. here, from Wikimedia Commons (licensed for reuse under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.0 license) and here, from Wicipedia Cymraeg (licensed for reuse under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 license). Would either of these be suitable for this article? Daicaregos (talk) 07:46, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I like the first one. --John (talk) 21:52, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I cropped it and added it to the article. I think it looks good. Thank you. --John (talk) 22:33, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Memorial image 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: We are going round in circles as far as I can see the position is as follows
*That he self-identified as Welsh is not contested
*That the convention for the FI information box is to use the team (which is generally a nation state) 
*There are very few use cases for British F1 drivers where this would come into play so no real precedent 
*Self-identification is used to determine nationality for people from the UK on many other articles
So I think it comes down to two questions
*Is his only notability as a Racing Driver? If not, then Welsh would be OK per normal practice
*If he has no other notability, does the team he drove for determine the nationality or can we have both
Overall it looks like it boils down to the second and we should simply RfC that.-----Snowded TALK 13:30, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not quite sure where the team identity enters in to this. Pyrope 13:33, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, okay, I see what you did. The nationality of a competitor in Formula One (or any other FIA sanctioned World Championship event) is determined by the nation of which they are a citizen. It is laid down in the rules and is nothing to do with teams. In fact, the team with which Pryce is most dominantly associated is Shadow, which was a USA-registered team for his first two years with them, and then a British-registered team for his last 18 months. It might be a good idea for you to thoroughly read back through these various discussions and understand the points being made before you raise any RfC. Pyrope 14:49, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I read back through it - I'm trying too sort out what the issue is and stop constant repetition of the same points - something you just did :-)  Part of the problem here is that some people are framing it as an F1 interest group issues, others as a wider issue of nationality which in information boxes which is established over multiple articles. -----Snowded TALK 15:39, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Well aware of that problem... *sigh*... but as there are folk who fly-by and drop comments that have already been addressed elsewhere sometimes it is necessary to repeat replies too! As ever in Wikipedia, and life in general, humans should be dealt with on their own merits, and trying to apply solutions that do not fit their particular circumstances is always dubious. Treating a Formula One driver in an identical manner to, say, a footballer ignores the regulations (FIA vs. FIFA) of their sport, the culture of the sport, and its portrayal in the media, etc. A particular sporting hero of mine, Big Norm, is listed in the intro to his page as an "English-born Welsh footballer", which I find quite amusing as he's about as bluff and gruff a proud Yorkshireman as I've ever met. Nevertheless, he played for Wales on multiple occasions and is seen on the wider international stage as a Welshman. Fair enough, that's how football works. If we apply that logic to Pryce we should be describing him as a Welsh-born British racing driver, but I have a sneaking suspicion that there are some engaged in this debate who would not be happy with that form of words. Pyrope 16:08, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: That wording is just plainly confusing. It suggests that he was born with Welsh legal nationality/citizenship an dropped it in favor of British one at some point in his life. Quite like someone born in Northern Ireland have the birth right to request Irish legal nationality/citizenship if they wish and in the process, but not mandatorily, drop the British nationality/citizenship they received at birth. Moreover we all know that Pryce was born British just as much (and from a legal perspective even more) as Welsh. Lastly such wording would be extremely confusing which other examples like an Italian-born Belgian racing driver. As it stands, the current form of the article is the least confusing we can have.Tvx1 19:59, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Well I never said I was in favour of it! Pyrope 21:16, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

text: Any proposed RFC on this matter, should cover all British F1 racers, not just Pryce. GoodDay (talk) 13:38, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: If there are other British F1 drivers who self-identify as English, Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish then there might be a case GoodDay.  No one is disputing the F1 intro box, its the wider wikipedia use of nationality and its application which is in question here. -----Snowded TALK 15:39, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

text: I'm not active enough to keep up with a big discussion like this, so I'll repeat my earlier post. My understanding of the nationality field in the person infobox - when it is required, as the field is often not necessary - is that it is meant to be used for legal nationality only. Apart from other sport-specific fields, I can't actually find any other articles using sub-British identities in the infobox. So where is this "normal practice" actually practised? QueenCake (talk) 17:45, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Plenty of examples, try this politician for starters -----Snowded TALK 09:19, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: And this one doesn't even have one nationality field in his infobox. So again NOT a general practice at all. NOT an obligation in any way. His Welshness is given its due credit in the prose and in the lead.Tvx1 15:24, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Nationality isn't always present, when it is the convention is self-identification..  In fact that may be a way forward - just get rid of it as a field -----Snowded TALK 06:12, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: But such a convention isn't written in stone & it's never constructive to attempt to force something into an article or its infobox. PS: I've no objections to completely deleting  the entire 'nationality/flag' stuff from all these Motorsports bio infoboxes. Though I must say, doing so (just because one can't get Welsh nationality & flag into one article's infobox) is quite a drastic measure. GoodDay (talk) 14:23, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

text: Again not true in any way for sportspeople. They only use whatever nationality they are associated with in their sport. For instance Steve Redgrave, Robbie Grabarz, Nicola Adams, Luke Campbell, Jade Jones and many many more. The general practice you keep gong about just doesn't exist.Tvx1 22:36, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Trying to get somewhere

message: Whatever the result is at WP:F1 Rfc, adopt it for this article. Otherwise, open up a separate Rfc for this article 'only'. Anyways, I've grown tired of the  near daily jabs toward me, by one of the editors in this discussion & so I'm departing. GoodDay (talk) 14:10, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: My advice

message: I am reviewing this (old or very old) FA as part of WP:URFA/2020, an effort to determine whether old featured articles still meet the featured article criteria. 
* There is some uncited text.
* There are incomplete citations (sample, who is the publisher here ?  "The Tragic Tale of Tom Pryce". Archived from the original on 21 May 2014. Retrieved 21 May 2014.)
* There are a number of sources that may not be reliable, or high-quality for an FA: formulaspy.com, carkeys.co.uk, oldracingcars.com, and more.
* A MOS review would be helpful (Sample, MOS:ALLCAPS  Matthews, Gethin (7 April 2014). "PRYCE, THOMAS MALDWYN (1949-1977), racing driver". )
Hopefully these items can be addressed so that a Featured article review will not be needed. SandyGeorgia (Talk)  02:17, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[WP:URFA/2020]]