Talk:Khatri/Archive 1

message: Older discussion can be seen here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Khatri&oldid=53715131
--Vikramsingh 05:30, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Earlier discussion 

message: MODERATOR: I have already refuted the Manusmriti citation, yet you still claim Ksatriya as Sudra. Counter citate or provide other evidence. Until then, caste should be left blank until someone successfully citates otherwise. Here is my original post against the Manusmriti citation:
"The nepalise warriors are called 'Chetri' (in fact, Chetri redirects to Ksatriya in Wikipedia) which is linguistically just as close as 'Ksshatri'. Hence there is a contradiction in the logic behind the citation (Manushmritis citation) that is heavily based on the linguistics of "Ksshatri", rendering it invalid. Let alone, a whole community being spawned by a very vague and RARE occurance of events; probabilistically and statistically approximately 0, as this event would have to occur over thousands of times. Here 'event' refers to the event that results in a Ksshatri, as defined previously to be a situation where a Ksatriya female mates with a Sudra male, their child becoming a 'Ksshatri'. Can anyone here provide any solid historical evidence of these events occurring thousands and thousands of times?
Thus although it may or may not be valid to refer to Khatri as Ksatriya, it is certainly not valid to refer to them as Sudra." - IP 60.... etc
From a Sudra are born an Ayogava, a Kshattri, and a Kandala, the lowest of men, by Vaisya, Kshatriya, and Brahmana) females, (sons who owe their origin to) a confusion of the castes.Quoted from Manusmriti.In this way a Kshattri(now called Khatri)are born from sudra father and Kshatriya mother.according to accepted principle for a varnasankara(hybrid) caste status was decided on the principle--Lower than father and higher than mother's.But since Man marrying a woman of higher caste was not acceptable such kind of people were referred to as outcastes like chandal or kandal.Holywarrior 06:25, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Khatri Origin and Caste status

message: I have been watching this page for quite sometime now. I fail to realise what is it that has lead to such vandalism here. No other page related to a caste group has suffered as much as this one has.
Especially these two gentlemen. I saw yesterday's extreme remark by somebody in response to the bile belched out by Mr. Chauhan.
I am a Punjabi Khatri myself. I advise my Khatri brethren not to squirm at such remarks. Let me explain why.
First of all, Chauhan calls us 'Punjabi Baniyas'. It is apparent that like most non-Punjabis, he is highly ignorant about the Punjab, its history, culture, society, castes and religions.
But people, even if he calls us 'Baniyas', why should we cringe? Simple reason being that even today as it was in centuries past, it is economics and finance that rule the roost. A nation's profile on the world stage gets raised if it is economically strong and not free vis-a-vis the society or the polity(take for an example today's China).
An ordinary human being's survival depends on what s/he earns for a living, which in turn is inextricably linked to the economy.
From times immemorial, people have migrated for trade from their native lands to others. Ancients(Greeks, Romans, Phoenicians, Chinese, pre-Islamic Arabs, Egyptians and us Indians), Medievals(Why did the Europeans colonise the world? primary motivation:trade. 'War', 'Conquest' and killing people came later on. Why did the Portuguese, Dutch, French and English come to our country in the first place? trade.) and Modern people have always traded with each other. Thus, there is nothing abominable about trade as Chauhan makes it out to be. 
We might be 'petty shopkeepers/traders/Baniyas.' But it is people like us Punjabi Khatris and people from other mercantile castes and communities like Laxmi Mittal(Marwari), the Birlas(Marwaris), the Tatas(Parsis), the Godrejs(Parsis), Naresh Goyal(Bania), Rahul Bajaj(Sindhi), The Ambanis(Gujaratis),  Sabeer Bhatia(Bhatia), Memons, Bohras, Khojas....I can go on and on, who are responsible for the boom that this country is experiencing today as well as raising its profile abroad.
As for Mr. Mohan(who thinks that all Punjabis are Khatris. Sir, please read the Punjabi people page on this site and find out about the different castes and religions of our province. Remember, we are not a monolithic, homogenous community. By your surname, I even mistook you for a Punjabi since 'Mohan' is one among seven clans of a Punjabi Brahmin caste called Mohyals) calling us the descendants of 'Asuras' and therefore 'Sudras', let me respond that with all the hullabaloo that caste is causing these days(you all know what I am referring to), it is better to be a "low" caste in this country. 'Higher' castes have been betrayed by their own leaders like V.P. Singh and Arjun Singh. Today, it is the Laloos, the Mayawatis and the Mulayams that call the shots in this nation. Hence, there is profit rather than loss in being labelled as 'lower'. You can yourself imagine why.
Lastly, whoever wants to delete my remarks may keep an old Chinese saying in mind: "He who raises his hand first, has run out of words." The basis of a democracy is civilised debate. Especially at a place like Wikipedia. This is a neutral encyclopaedia and not a battlefield.
Thank you.
Rajat Ghai.
: You are right Rajat. All of us Indias are proud of what Laxmi Mittal, the Birlas, the Tatas, the Godrejs, Naresh Goyal, Rahul Bajaj, Ambanis,  Sabeer Bhatia(Bhatia), Memons, Bohras, Khojas have achieved. They are an inspiration to us all.--Vikramsingh 17:53, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sanjay Mohan and Rajesh Chauhan 

message: There has been a significant amount of frivolous discussion relating to Khatris and other communites in the region.
Khatris are proud Indians. They are naturally proud of their heritage. They also respect other communities like Rajputs, Jats, Banias, Brahmins etc.; they acknowledge their contributions to the Indian culture and civilization.
All the communities need to work together to build a greater society. That does not mean that members of a community should not be proud of the achievements of their ancestors and fellow members of the same community. --Vikramsingh 17:47, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Khatris and other communities

message: The Khatris are a actors community that originated in the Potwar Plateau region of Punjab.They are reffered to as kshattri in hindu scriptures.According to Manushmriti Ch.10th verse 16
From a Sudra spring in the inverse order (by females of the higher castes) three base-born (sons, apasada), an Ayogava, a Kshattri, and a Kandala, the lowest of men;
Hence they are among lowest of men according to scriptures ranking with chandal in caste hierarchy. 
THE ABOVE PIECE WAS FOUND ON THE KHATRI MAIN PAGE.  MODERATOR, WHAT IS THE DEAL, WHY WOULD YOU ALLOW AND ACCEPT SOMEONE TO WRITE THIS ABOUT KHATRIS WHEN YOU KNOW ITS NOT TRUE.  IN FACT, THE PERSON THAT WROTE THIS ABSCURED THE FACTS regarding the true definition of a "Kshattri".   A "KSHATTRI" IS THE PRODUCT OF A KHATRI/KSHATRIYA MALE MARRYING OR PRODUCING A BABY WITH A SHUDRA FEMALE, HENCE, ALLOWING THE WOMAN OR THE BABY TO MOVE UP IN THE CASTE SYSTEM RANKING.  This was usually done if or when a Khatri/Kshatriya would have children with Shudra women, and depending on the relationship with that particular Shudra women, the women and the offspring had an opportunity to move up in caste, but never as true Kshatriya/Khatri, most were then considered to be at the top or near the top of Shudra caste, or if they were lucky, at the bottom of the Vaishya caste (3rd in order).  However, going forward with their lineage, many would always claim to be of an even higher caste, so through many generations, many claim to be of the Vaishya or even Kshatriya caste, which is totally false.  
Remember, the caste system is full of crap, its worthless, however, we cannot deny the history of India and its impact on it.
Hi Mr Noble eagle.This Idiot(as you say) is Lord manu himself I was just quoting it.Whatever you wrote above is not in conformity with accepted principle.ManushmRITI SAYS kshattri is born of Shudra Father and Kshatriya mother and not vice versa as you want to put it.This was highly objectionable to accepted norms of caste hierarchy.The vernasankara were not supposed to be higher than the producing father .Hence Kshattris were considered even below shudra.Manushmriti categorically says---among lowest of the low.And remember there never was any fifth caste manushmriti says this too.I am rolling back your edits.Holywarrior 07:47, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Um...I don't know why these comments are directed at me...If you want my opinion, Khatri's are Kshatriya in Punjab along with Arora. Full Stop. Nobleeagle  (Talk) 07:54, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is true, it was not me that did these edits. Why would I believe Khatri are Sudra? Please show me the diffs so that I can sort out this problem. I did not add these comments. Nobleeagle  (Talk) 10:11, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Please, prove me wrong, I am mystified by this newfound accusation method. Pick up a random user and accuse him/her of vandalism. Nobleeagle  (Talk) 04:41, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

text:  :) Thats funny. It's a misunderstanding, read it, it's a Welcome From Nobleeagle. I was welcoming new users. To do this I use a template that you can find here User:Nobleeagle/Welcome, I have welcomed many users using this template. Recently I welcomed Jasonxxs. Check out User talk:138.217.88.111 or User talk:69.118.141.159, they are welcomes FROM me, not TO me. See, your accusation was baseless. Nobleeagle  (Talk) 06:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  WHO IS THE IDIOT THAT WROTE THE FOLLOWING PIECE.... 

message: Plz talk to me regarding any confusion on kshatriya/shudra claim,don't edit without reasons.Holywarrior 12:15, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vikramsingh and others 

message: What he is inserting is vandalism.
--Vikramsingh 22:36, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism by Holywarrior

message: He is inserting:
:"and in northern areas of Afghanistan and Tajikistan areas (in ancient times these areas were known as Bactria and Sogdiana." 
Which in my view, nonsense. What is the basis of this statement?
--Vikramsingh 22:36, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Text inserted by 156.80.102.143

message: khatri has as much to do with kshatriya as, possibly, with kshetra ('field')> khéti ('tiller').--BobClive 08:01, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Origin of the Word

message: I can discuss the question of Varna. But before that let me present some thought on the "high" and "low" concepts.
It is true that that the Khatris are regarded to be "high caste". However the Sikh gurus were respected not because they belonged to a high caste, but what they preached.
Should I encounter Sant Raidas, who was born a chamar, I would not mind touching his feet. He is said to have been a guru of Mirabai; who am I compared with the noble Mirabai?.
Let me give some facts about the Khatris, and then some details.
1. Yes, they are indeed descendants of the ancient kshatriyas.
2. The many regions of India were ruled by Kshatriyas of several different clans, there are many communities that are descendants of Khastriyas.
3. In a sense, Kshatriyatva is today vested in all Hindus; because India is a democracy and thus everyone is a ruler, it is everyone's duty to protect the nation and preserve the dharma.  
Let me mention some facts.
# The Saraswat Brahmins have served as the priests of the Khatris by tradition. Their association with the Khatris is a close one. Give me evidence!
# The Khatris have been traditionally invested with the yajnopavita (janeu). That's because they are conidered Baniyas by most priests (and Sudra by some)
# The Khatris are among the rare non-Brahmin Hindu communities that have had a tradition of studying the Vedas. Baidiya means medicine man, fool. It is also found among the Kayasth. 
# As an example, most of the Sikh Gurus had Brahmin scholars and managers of the institutions (belonging to the Chhibber Brahmin clan), they even had Brahmin cooks. As Guru Gobind Singh wrote in his autobiography Vichitra Natak, his father, Guru Teg Bahadur gave his life to preserve the honor of the tilaka and the yajnopavita, when he was approached by persecuted Brahmins. Sick ..i mean Sikh religion is full of crap. 
# Manusmriti chap 10, v, 16, refers to a community named "kshattaa", not Khatri, even if we were to regard the text involved an non-interpolated. Kshattaa is an extinct community. We Khatris are Kshattri. 
More later.--Vikramsingh 01:40, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  About High and low; On the discusion on [[Varna]] 

message: Dear editors  I have no intention of engaging in slanging match with anyone here.I am not going to revert the page even.But remember.Only truth has existence and lie does not exist at all,so truth should be embraced in all its form.Only this can help you.By Lord Krishna in Bhagwad Gita.Holywarrior 09:02, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  To whosoever is reverting the page 

message: LISTEN YOU MUKE LOOKING MFCKER, STOP DELETING MY DISCUSSIONS I CREATE YOU S.O.B.....
SUCH A HATER OF KHATRIS/KSHATRIYA..........HHAHAHAHAAH, I LOVE IT, I LOVE THE FACT YOU HAVE SO MUCH ENVY AND JEALOUSY.........IT OOZES FROM YOUR PORES AND EVERY SENTENCE YOU WRITE ABOUT KHATRIS....HAHAHAHAHAHAH
AND YET.....THIS A-HOLE "WARRIOR" AS HE LIKES TO CALL HIMSELF STILL HAS NOT ANSWERED ANY OF MY QUESTIONS....MANNNNN, GET LOST FROM HERE
 jay1,2,3 etc. Are You Mentally Sick???? Read well nothing remains unanswered and blv it the last version will be mine.Holywarrior 13:20, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moderator, Holywarrior is deleting my topics on this discussion... 

message: These are not supported by history:  
: "and in northern areas of Afghanistan and Tajikistan areas (in ancient times these areas were known as Bactria and Sogdiana"
I know of no historical connection. The Shahi rulers of Kabul did rule Bactria, but their home was Kabul region. The Khatris as a community emerged in the Gandhara valley.
I have noted that some people in India (and more often in Pakistan) feel superior by claiming affinity to some external groups, even though the claim is not historically justified. Ultimately though all human races are interlinked. 
:"It was the Khatri king Porus (Puru), of the Kukhran / Kukhrain subcaste of Khatris, that battled with the Greek-Macedonian Alexander the Great in the year 326 B.C. and the other Greco-Bactrian rulers."
It is possible. But how do we know that the descendants of Porus are specifically Kukhrain, and not Khatris in general?  --Vikramsingh 01:10, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Historically unsuported claims

message: Someone has suggested that the Kukhran page be merged in the Khatri page. Actually since the Khatri page was too long, it was necessary to move to details of the Kukhran Khatris to another page. To preserve readability, the pages should not be merged.
Kukhrain are a regional section of the Khatris, the name refers to the region ruled by Khokhar Rajputs.--Vikramsingh 00:35, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Kukhran]] Khatris

message: WHAT IS YOUR MAJOR ISSUE HOLYCOWARD?  YOU INSISTENTLY KEEP CHANGING THE KHATRI PAGE, AND YET THE MODERATOR DOES NOTHING ABOUT IT.....HOLYCOWARD, WHY HAVE YOU STILL NOT BEEN ABLE TO ANSWER ANY OF MY QUESTIONS ABOUT YOUR CASTE?  WHY CAN YOU NOT ANSWER SUCH A SIMPLE QUESTION?
-JAY3
Ummmm. I know ur concerns I am a shudra,born Chandal who are higher than khatris.If Khatris are Kshtriya than Chandals are Brahmanas .No.Why same logic doesn't apply here.I have never changed any content of Khatri page since my declaration.Holywarrior 07:47, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  HolyCOWARD.......is a very boring & dull person... 

message: "In Hinduism, the Asura (Sanskrit: असुर) are a group of power-seeking deities, sometimes misleadingly referred to as demons. They were opposed to the devas. "
Khatri's and Asura's? Get real. The fact is that this article is now no longer being disputed, there is enough evidence here to conclude Ksatriya/Khatri equivalence. None of the evidence provided has been successfully refuted or counter-citated. Put this dispute to rest; lock the article for a while and BAN vandals. Seriously - I'm getting sick and tired of all these people that change the article without providing any evidence whatsoever. Seriousy..
::I agree the article has been victim of disruptive activities.All of us must analyse facts only.Bad faith editors,who seek propaganda through wikipedia articles should be banned.Holy -- + -- Warrior 09:57, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  This is getting ridiculous, SERIOUSLY 

message: While you guys are having a revert war, I wish to get one thing perfectly straight. Why do you expect Moderator to do everything for you? Is it because of his username. You need to get one thing very clear, as far as I know, Moderator3000 is not an admin, he has no powers the rest of us don't have and he may not have full knowledge of Wikipedia policies. I suggest you ask User:Nichalp, or User:Gurubrahma, who are respected admins. Here's a list of Indian Admins. Nobleeagle  (Talk) 08:44, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It has shown what a name can achieve.I am thinking of having Administrator2000 as my ID.surely people will respect me.Holywarrior 09:37, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Respect has to be earned. Using titles does not gain you respect here. =Nichalp «Talk»= 06:01, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Don't bet on it.  "Moderator3000" has been banned indefinitely for his confusing and misleading username.  That's not the way to go.  --Cyde↔Weys 06:02, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moderator is no Special Admin 

message: Article on Bedi clan has been created. 
  
The following text regarding has been restored. It is quite significant. 
  
:Many prominent historical figures have emerged from the Khatri. All ten Sikh Gurus were Khatri, belonging to the Bedi, Trehan, Bhalla and Sodhi subcastes. Raja Todar Mal was a Tandon Khatri who codified the revenue collection system as Revenue Minister for Akbar. Haqiqat Rai was a Puri Khatri whose martyrdom was celebrated on Basant Panchami in Lahore until independence. Hari Singh Nalwa, an Uppal Khatri, was a prominent general under Maharaja Ranjit Singh. The father and son pair of the Diwans Sawan Mal and Mul Raj Chopra were successive governors of Multan under Ranjit Singh. The former instituted vast improvement in agriculture, while the latter was instrumental in leading the revolt against the British to prevent the annexation of the Sikh kingdom into the East India Company territory. 
 
--ISKapoor 22:05, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Prominent historical figures 

message: Please be civil. In a discussion people will have differing views. Please respect that and try and potray your viewpoint in a cogent and mature manner. All articles should conform to the neutral point of view, and not have a pro- or anti- bias. Please also do not indulge in name calling. See Wikipedia:No personal attacks. Wikipedia policy states that articles contributed should not be original research. To include material here, please cite credible sources. Thank you, =Nichalp «Talk»= 06:05, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please be civil 

message: Hello, there seems to have been some confusion over who is and who is not an administrator here. To check whether or not someone is an admin, type their username in Special:Listusers. If "sysop" appears next to their username, then they are an admin. If it does not, they are not. (example) Prodego talk 00:41, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Administrators 

message: The aryan invasion theory etc. belongs elsewhere. This article is about the Khatris,  based on well-known documented facts.
I have seem claims of people claiming to be superior because they came from elsewhere or have a lighter colored skin. These views have no place in this article.
The following are not appropriate.
:were scattered in the northern areas of Afghanistan and southern Tajikistan (in ancient times these areas were known as Bactria and Sogdiana. 
:All Kshatriya/Khatris and Brahmins are descendants of Aryan people originating in Central Asia (related to Iranian Aryan tribes of Persia/Iran). They migrated/invaded the Indian subcontinent around the year 3000-1500 B.C., often referred to as the Aryan Invasion).
This article is about Khatris, but it not about claiming that they have exclusive authority to rule.
:Khatris were for many centuries the only group that made up the government administration roles including the rulers, kings, landlords, and governors, as well as the civil administration officials.
Aroras and other similar communities are brothers and friends of Khatris. Aroras are a distinct group, with their own unique history. There is a separate article on Aroras. 
Finally Brother 156.80.102.158 - why did you insert the POV tag?
--Vikramsingh 21:20, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Problem with edits by 156.80.102.158

message: Please let us know which specific facts are disputed. Please note that there is a list of references at the end.--Vikramsingh 21:28, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Have you read the talk page archive, when there is a revert war like what's going on now, the article is considered disputed. Nobleeagle  (Talk) 01:14, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I think there is a good list of references. Is there something you question and want referenced?  --Vikramsingh 20:04, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I looked at Nobleeagle's recent version. It looks like the appropriate one, I have restored it. It seems that there is some feeling of rivalry that is behind the revert war. I think for India, and for the Hindus, it is time for people to respect each other regardless of the caste we may belong. The article should be factual and based on hard information. That is what I and several of the other contributors have worked for. --Vikramsingh 20:18, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The tag: "The factual accuracy of this article is disputed"

message: You guys revert everyone without even thinking about what you're reverting. Read WP:LEAD at least, read WP:3RR. The article needs a lead section and you guys are removing it. I inserted the Caste Infobox onto the article and was reverted...this is a pointless waste of time if you guys maintain this attitude. Nobleeagle  (Talk) 01:14, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Reversion

message: NO ONE HAS ANSWERED MY QUESTIONS ABOVE, AND ARE STILL EAGER TO CHANGE THE PAGE...........
FOR THOSE WHO DENY THE KHATRI/KSHATRIYA RELATIONSHIP, ARE ANY OF YOU GOING TO ANSWER MY QUESTIONS ABOVE OR WHAT?  OR ARE YOU STILL DOING YOUR RESEARCH?
JAY3
:Please don't use capital letters to make a point, it's pretty much the online equivalent of shouting at people! Please stay cool when discussing articles. It's much easier to get your ideas across when others don't think you're being hostile. Have a great day, —  riana_dzasta • t • c • e • 04:52, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  AND STILL.......... 

message: Firstly, the admin "Ragib" has banned me for apparently vandalism. I admit, I got frustrated with the revert war and wrote quite blatently in the main article (only that the Khatri's are indeed Ksatriya). I don't believe that the family one is lucky/unlucky enough to be born in defines much at all about their character, it is action that does. All men (and of course, women) are equal unless their character is perturbed by their action - regardless their rights are always equal.
Secondly, I must say it is quite ridiculous how everybody bought into the Manushmritis citings. Here is a nice and quick way to put them to death (re-post):
The nepalise warriors are called 'Chetri' (in fact, Chetri redirects to Ksatriya in Wikipedia) which is linguistically just as close as 'Ksshatri'. Hence there is a contradiction in the logic behind the citation (Manushmritis citation) that is heavily based on the linguistics of "Ksshatri", rendering it invalid. Let alone, a whole community being spawned by a very vague and RARE occurance of events; probabilistically and statistically approximately 0, as this event would have to occur over thousands of times. Here 'event' refers to the event that results in a Ksshatri, as defined previously to be a situation where a Ksatriya female mates with a Sudra male, their child becoming a 'Ksshatri'. Can anyone here provide any solid historical evidence of these events occurring thousands and thousands of times? Thus although it may or may not be valid to refer to Khatri as Ksatriya, it is certainly not valid to refer to them as Sudra.
Here is an arguement posted by someone else that actually favours Khatri/Ksatriya linkage linguistically:
"Khatris throughout the middle ages were always considered as Kshatriyas and the difference in the spelling is simply the Prakrit/early punjabi spelling, just as just as Raksha becomes Rakha. Take away the s and y from Kshatriya and you have Khatriya. At some point in the post-Gupta era they took to commerce."
Thirdly, breif mentions of citings which one VikramSingh has also referred to, please check the articles listed in "References". Also check articles via clicking the names available in the list of Khatri surnames. One in particular has references to the history of Burdwan, where Kapoor ruled for a long time period. Although Burdwan is part of Bangladesh, the ruling Kapoor family undoubtedly trace their origins to Khatri - and hence the HISTORY OF BURDWAN MUST BE REFUTED if anyone is to say otherwise to Khatri = Ksatriya.
Jay3, I don't argue against your Khatri origins, but to call yourself a Khatri is to call yourself a warrior - are you? 
Also, there was a very nice section on this article a long time back on Muslim Khatri's. Does anyone know why that was removed? 
Also althought Khatri and Ksatriya are one and the same, citation is definately needed when whoever wrote "The Khatris are the original members of the Kshatriya caste" must citate this... that they are indeed the ORIGINALS.
Enough said.
All men have equal rights, all men are equal until their character is perturbed by their actions.
IP: wateva, go check
::Restoring this after vandalism got it blanked. Nobleeagle  (Talk) 08:03, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Khatri/Ksatriya Citings + Refutation Against Manushmritis Citings 

message: Actually Burdwan fortunately remained a part of India. Yes, It's Maharajas are Khatri. See the article Kapoor.
The ruling family of Burdwan was responsible for  numerous contributions to what is now known as the Bengali culture, many of them in turn, influenced all of India.
--Vikramsingh 23:36, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Maharajas of Burdwan

message: NO ONE HAS ANSWERED MY QUESTIONS ABOVE, AND ARE STILL EAGER TO CHANGE THE PAGE...........
FOR THOSE WHO DENY THE KHATRI/KSHATRIYA RELATIONSHIP, ARE ANY OF YOU GOING TO ANSWER MY QUESTIONS ABOVE OR WHAT? OR ARE YOU STILL DOING YOUR RESEARCH?
JAY3
JAY3 infact it was I who had written citation from manusmriti which you persistently removed.You are encouraged to write about your refutations of Mnaushmriti even on my talk page if you prefer.I just wonder what makes people hate the word Shudra.Holywarrior 08:01, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Jay I read your refutations which are actually countercharge on nepal kings.Yes they are called chettri but actually they are from Mewar Guhilot dynasty whose Kshatriya status is also challenged by Gen.Todd linking them with sasanian sakas /Guebras .This is not the way to refute something.Holywarrior 14:44, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It should be noted that James Tod wrote in 1829-1832 when most of the archaeological information was not available, and many manuscripts had not come to light. The Kings of Nepal are certainly Rajput, and are thus not immediately related with the Khatris. It should be kept in kind that in ancient times, India was a very large country, with different clans of Kshatriyas ruling different kingdoms in various parts of India. Thus it cannot be claimed that only a certain set of clans from a specific region are the only  descendants of the ancient Kshatriyas.--Vikramsingh 16:40, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Later findings and works have attested James Todd's work with seal of trust.Holywarrior 10:32, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  AND STILL.........AS OF 6/29/06 

message: Kindly stop reverting to versions where the links point to Punjab, as opposed to a specific usage of the term. It's really bloody annoying, cuz I've busted my chops trying to remove disambiguation links to Punjab. —  riana_dzasta • t • c  14:59, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  disambiguation 

message: Kshatri was also the name of the famous character from the mahabharat "Vidura" who was half brother of Dhritarashtra and cousin of Pandu. "Please check mahabharata."
Kshatri also denotes one who is intelligent just fair and strong; qualities that were possessed by Vidura ( supposed incarnation of lord yamaraja, whose son was yuddisthira. )—Preceding unsigned comment added by Alokbagga  (talk • contribs) .
::Plz go through some earlier versions of this article and if you are interested go through archieve too.You will get the idea what Kshatri means and why Vidura was called so.Holy|Warrior 14:02, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kshatri 

message: that you a-holes stop messing with the page, and putting bogus information up that Khatris are not Kshatriya.....
No one can deny that Khatris/Kshatriya are the same people, so get over it!
KHATRI = KSHATRIYA........simple as that!
will you answer Kshattri=?,I am going to start an article Kshatri.Holy -- + -- Warrior 15:48, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Kshatri page will include most of the deleted part of the articles.It has got references in scriptures and should not be contended.Yeah it will be a separate article without referring to any existing community.Holy | Warrior 15:32, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for reminding me,why should I loose.This is the right place to make Kshatri related edits.Holy|Warrior 14:17, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  I would suggest..... 

message: Khatris are the foremost kshatriya race, descended from Luv And Kusha the sons of Lord Rama as narrated by Guru Gobind Singh In bachitar Natak.
Rajputs originated around 700AD. Bappa Rawal first leader who was blessed by Guru Gorakhnath.
Rajputs were created by Guru Gorakhnath much the same way as Khalsa was created to protect Hindu ANd INdia from the Islamic Invasion Starting In makran( modern day Balochistan) around the same time.
Rajputs actions of yore were of Khsatriya heritage whether they were originally Kshatriya is debatable.
Khalsa can be anyone his actions have to conform to Kshatriya duties..
similarly earlier rajput could be anyone his actions should conform to kshatriya standards.
Rajputs and Khalsa both adore and worship the sword.
Sword is the symbol of Dharma as narrated By bhisma pitmah in the Santi/Anusansa Parva(I'll give the details of exact section by check in the online text for NAkula, BHISMA, KHADGA)
Also Divine Mother( God in the form of mother) descended on earth with the sword to wipe out adharma and protect her children. Guru Gorakhnath was a worshipper of Mother, get it confirmed from Kanphata yoga's ( Also refer to Swami Rama's works) and Guru Gobing Singh called the sword BHagoti or the Mother or the Sword( as claimed by SIkhs though I doubt it??).
Singh is the Middle name adopted by rajputs and Khalsa. Both suppose  to be upholders of dharma.
Many texts of Hinduism say that man is known by his deeds. i.e you are a kshatriya if your actions are such.
Khalsa gurus were khatris.
IMO muslim rajput is an oxymoron.
So khatris are one of the most ancient kshatriya race by birth/lineage thought they make conform to other duties of different orders as regards to their deeds.
ALok
PS ( I have a bunch of reference if someone needs let me know)
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Alokbagga  (talk • contribs) 
But,that is all your opinions,it will be better to discuss Khatri/Kshatri only here.Holy|Warrior 13:51, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Khatri ==> Kshatriya 

message: I have added a reference and a few links to articles on specific clans. The Sodhi article has been started.--Vikramsingh 00:31, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Added

message: These three are frequent vandals:
*User:IPKapoor inserts "The Khatris are an Asura community" 
*User:SanjayMohan: inserts "Punjabi Khatris are a community of the Asuras"
*User:MSKhanna inserts "The Khatris are Sudra community" or "The Khatris are a despised community" 
As you can guess User:IPKapoor and User:MSKhanna are not really Kapoor or Khanna, User:SanjayMohan is same as User:IPKapoor.
If you encounter vandalism by these, I suggest  restoring a good version before making any edits.
--Vikramsingh 22:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandals [[User:IPKapoor]], [[User:SanjayMohan]], [[User:MSKhanna]]

message: This person 156.80.102.187 has been inserting the tags:
unsourced}}
POV}}
disputed}}
and also this ridiculus text (with no historical support) : 
All Kshatriya/Khatris and Brahmins are descendants of Aryan people originating in Central Asia (related to Iranian Aryan tribes of Persia/Iran). They migrated/invaded the Indian subcontinent around the year 3000-1500 B.C., often referred to as the Aryan Invasion).
--Vikramsingh 01:49, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandal [[User:156.80.102.187]]

message: The vandal "IPKapoor" had inserted a number of Jat family names in the list (see below). Perhaps he is a Jat. 
I think people from the same region should specially respect each other, since they share a cultural heritage.   
List with non-Khatri names inserted by IPKapoor:
:Some Khatri family names include Anand, Ahlawat,Alpials, Awal,Azad, Amba, Badhwar,Bahl, Bagga, Baijal, Bajwa (=Baswaal) ,Bakshi, Bangyaal,Bedi, Bhalla, Bhasin, Bhandari, Bindra, Chadha, Chandok, Chatta, Cheema, Chona, Chopra, Choudhary, Dahiya, Dalal, Deswal, Dhawan, Dhillon, Dhuhra, Dua, Duggal, Dhupar, Dumra, Gadhiok,Gatwallas, Ghai, Gill, Gandhi, Golia , Gondal, Gosain, Gujral, Gulla, Handa,Her, Jerath, Jairath, Jaggi, Jakhar,Joura, Kadian,Kakkar, Kapoor (Kapur), Kahlon, Kang, Kehar (= Kher, Kharral) ,Khanna, Khosla, Khullar,Khatri, Kochhar, Kohli, Koshal, Lajwa, Langah (= Langriwal), Lal, Lala, Lamba, Loomba, Madhok, Mahendru, Maini, Malhotra, Malik, Mankhand, Manraj, Mehra, Mehrotra, Mehta, Monga, Nair(Nayyar), Nayer, Nijhawan, Nikhanj, Oberoi, Ohri, Parwanda, Phull, Phul, Phool, Puri, Rai, Randhawa (= Ranjha), Rathi, Roshan, Sabharwal, Sablok, Saggar, Sahni/Sawhney, Saini/Senowney/Senany, Sami, Sarin, Saroya,.Sehota, Sochi, Sukhera,Sehgal (Sahgal), Sekhri, Sethi, Seth, Sahrawat,Sial (Syal), Sibal, Sikka, Sobti, Sodhi, Sondhi, Soni, Suri, Talwar, Tandan (Tandon), Taror (= Tarraar and Tharthaal), Tehim, Thapar, Trehan, Uppal, Vadehra, Vig. Vij, Vinaik, Vohra, Wadhawan, Wahi (Wahie), Walia and Waraich (= Virk, Varya or Brar,). 
I am sad to see this vandalism.--Vikramsingh 22:10, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism by "IPKapoor" 

message: Please see 
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AKhatri&diff=71427701&oldid=70550862
How IPKapoor is vandalizing this talk page itself.--Vikramsingh 22:36, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism of this Talk page

message: Please see
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AKhatri&diff=71972812&oldid=71843488
Apparently BMehra is same as IPKapoor (and is neither a Mehra or a Kapoor or from any other Khatri clan).--Vikramsingh 23:56, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism by [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:BMehra BMehra]]of  this Talk page

message: I have started. 
* Oberoi
* Mohan Singh Oberoi
You are requested to kindly contribute.
--ISKapoor 00:16, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Article started

message: There is one alredy. Please see Arora.
--Vikramsingh 22:58, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Arora]] article