Talk:Danah boyd

message: One lone woman can't change the English rules for capitalization of proper nouns. Capitalize it correctly.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.15.218.45 (talk) 19:41, 1 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why is her name not capitalized? 

message: This is your occasional reminder that the current Manual of Style would recommend this article use "danah boyd" (which has regular and established use in reliable third-party sources and is the subject's preference), and that the continued deviation from the guideline is a source of persistent surprise and confusion for anyone who isn't a Wikipedia admin. Anyone feel brave enough to propose the move? Ubernostrum (talk) 10:17, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Per MOS:CAP, , bell hooks, k.d. lang etc. this would seem an obvious move. Skomorokh 10:52, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

text: Considering that the policy has been in place for close to three years now, and almost all of the objections above are objections to the policy and not to its application to this page, I would definitely offer my support. -- Irn (talk) 13:41, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

text: Support. It seems a mountain over a molehill, but I would support the move. -- Halavais (talk) 03:23, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

text: Support but figger the old objectors are still around. Bellagio99 (talk) 15:03, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

text: Personally, I think the decent thing to do would be to honor her name-formatting/capitalization preferences. However, from a sampling of the reliable sources used as references in the article, as well as a Google News Archive search, it appears most of them don't honor it, and instead use "Danah Boyd". So the question is, which takes precedence: her preferences, or the reliable source usage? Is it sufficient that a decent minority (20–25%, if I had to guess) of the reliable sources do honor her preference? 28bytes (talk) 17:44, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The standard, from WP:MOSCAP is "regular and established use in reliable third-party sources." It doesn´t need to be a majority. I would definitely say that a "decent minority" over the course of years constitutes regular and established use. -- Irn (talk) 18:08, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with that perspective, but as Bellagio99 suggests below, it would be good to line up a comprehensive list of the RS references that use "danah boyd" prior to opening a move request. 28bytes (talk) 23:54, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

text: Having gone thru this multiple times (without success), I urge Irn and Ubernostrum to post a bunch of reliable lower case sources, before continuing the debate. Otherwise, I fear, same old, same old.Bellagio99 (talk) 21:26, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I've been through this multiple times, too, and can attest that reliable sources make not a bit of difference -- the moment you bring up a respectable source, you get shouted down with "oh, obviously they've been influenced by her and aren't reliable anymore". Ubernostrum (talk) 02:31, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

text: Yeah, Uber, I've been there with you. And I am not volunteering to do the work, altho Google Scholar would make it easy. But talking in an evidence vacuum doesn't make sense either. Those who are passionate about it, please put up or shut up as we used to say as a kid (in the nicest way). Assemble the evidence, svp. Bellagio99 (talk) 04:11, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

text: As there was no objections to your change, I've formalised it in the page title. Skomorokh 12:13, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  There are most definitely objections to the change, and this should go through WP:RM. --Elonka 17:21, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: You waited through three months of discussion in favour of the change to pipe up for bureaucracy for the sake of bureaucracy, seriously? Skomorokh 17:32, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

text: Calling this "fixing spelling" is so disingenuously misleading I really question the spirit beyond these eleventh-hour reversions. Skomorokh 17:37, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Using an edit summary of "obstructionist tactics" is not particularly civil.  In any case, WP:RM is pretty clear: "If there has been any past debate about the best title for the page, or if anyone could reasonably disagree with the move, then treat it as controversial."  Or in other words, if there's a clear consensus, it'll show up in formal discussion. Why not give it a try? --Elonka 17:43, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have to agree with Skomorokh that this was an extremely misleading edit summary. Regardless, now that there's an objection, I'll go ahead and start a formal move request. 28bytes (talk) 17:49, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

text:  Oh, Elonka, I wondered when you'd take notice. But since you're here: it's time to hear an argument for why this article should go against the grain of MoS, since the growing consensus appears to be that the article should be edited to conform. I await that argument, though not with bated breath -- one suspects that a flurry of edits is about to occur over at MoS instead. Ubernostrum (talk) 19:00, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

text: I don't really care what we do about this but I will point out that the MOS page to which you linked contradicts itself.  As you point out, one section says that we should capitalize boyd when it begins a sentence.  Another section in that same page also says: "The initial letter in a sentence is capitalized. This does not apply if it begins with a letter which is always left uncapitalized."  That, of course, contradicts the requirement to capitalize names when they begin a sentence.  If this is important to you, I recommend taking this up on the Talk page of the MOS to have it resolved so this doesn't come up again in the future. ElKevbo (talk) 19:38, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  MoS 

message: What do you think about this as documentation of boyd's non-trivial affiliation with NYU?
http://steinhardt.nyu.edu/news/2011/9/23/danah_boyd_Joins_MCC_as_Research_Assistant_Professor
Bellagio99 (talk) 16:42, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  @ nyu 

message: As a lot of other related edits have also been done, hold-off reverting until the concise points raised in the style guide are addressed, see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Capital_letters#Caps_.22Items_that_require_initial_lower_case.22_.28partially.29_scrap_or_edit.3F Jimthing (talk) 23:31, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: No, you've made a bunch of edits and are trying to change the MOS to support your edits.  It doesn't work like that and you don't get to bully others and edit war to keep your edits while you change the MOS.  Change the MOS and then make your edits. ElKevbo (talk) 23:43, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  New style guide discussion. 

message: I set some uppercase aliases in Wikidata and made the change on this page that you reverted based on the uppercase name at http://www.danah.org/name.html. Should we defer to the subject's own usage? Or is this already covered in a past discussion? --Jeremyb (talk) 16:52, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, wanted to leave an edit summary but was still learning how to use the new app and missed how to do so. --Jeremyb (talk) 17:03, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: There has been extensive discussion of this issue.  Just scroll up on this Talk page and check its archives. ElKevbo (talk) 17:04, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I read some of the earlier discussion above before making the change in question. I'm not aware of anywhere that covers this particular variant of her name. Please quote or link to a diff or something if I missed it. (or is the argument that we have existing consensus that she should be referenced in lowercase for all variants regardless of what her own preference is? if clarification is needed beyond the ref I already linked we could just ask her…) Thanks. --Jeremyb (talk) 00:06, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry but I'm not following you. What is the point of contention and how does it differ from the several discussions previously held here?  ElKevbo (talk) 03:31, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, did you look at http://www.danah.org/name.html ? It has some (earlier, obsolete) variants in uppercase. What do you think about that? Should we uppercase those older variants that the subject herself chooses to uppercase? --Jeremyb (talk) 03:42, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Only if for some reason we're discussing historical names and spellings in this article.  It's a bit obscure to get into for this (or nearly any other) biography. ElKevbo (talk) 04:58, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

text: uh i based it on the source in the statement itsself?? http://www.danah.org/aboutme.html ?fj it lists quotation here as undercase and so thats why i reverted :^)( ~Helicopter Llama~ 14:49, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The issue may be that the two sources contradict one another with respect to whether the name has uppercase letters.  This source doesn't use uppercase letters ("My birth name was "danah michele mattas") but this source does use capital letters ("Born: 'Danah Michele Mattas'."). ElKevbo (talk) 16:05, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

text: This has been extensively discussed many times over the past several years.  Do you have any new information?  If not, why do you believe that your opinion should override the consensus that has been achieved on this topic? ElKevbo (talk) 23:20, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uppercase for earlier names? 

message: It looks very unprofessional to have a name in lowercases like this. Not to mention goes against English writing convention.Reverted.--Cartamandua (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 23:13, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: This has been extensively discussed many times over the past several years.  Do you have any new information?  If not, why do you believe that your opinion should override the consensus that has been achieved on this topic? ElKevbo (talk) 23:20, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Further Discussion

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120604185643/http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/27/technology/circuits/27frie.html to http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/27/technology/circuits/27frie.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120505174453/http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/focus/antisemitism/voices/transcript/index.php?content=20091022 to http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/focus/antisemitism/voices/transcript/index.php?content=20091022
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hi. I would like to update the "Honors and awards" section, adding more information about the speeches that she has recently given. 
· "What Hath We Wrought?" at SXSW EDU 2018
· "Hacking Big Data" at University of Texas at Austin
Parprae (talk) 16:10, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Updating "Honors and awards" and "Career" 

message: Even given that we present her name in all lower case, doesn't the "capitalize the first word of a sentence" rule still apply? We have "boyd grew up in Lancaster, Pennsylvania and Altoona, Pennsylvania" in the article, with "boyd" being the first word of the sentence. Shouldn't that be "Boyd grew up in Lancaster, Pennsylvania and Altoona, Pennsylvania"? --Khajidha (talk) 14:01, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: After checking around I found MOS:LCITEMS. Which says "Some individuals do not want their personal names capitalized. In such cases, Wikipedia articles may use lower-case variants of personal names if they have regular and established use in reliable third-party sources (for example, k.d. lang). When such a name is the first word in a sentence, the rule for initial letters in sentences and list items should take precedence, and the first letter of the personal name should be capitalized regardless of personal preference. " I will make the necessary changes.--Khajidha (talk) 14:05, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Capitalization, but not exactly what you are worried about