Talk:Battle of La Suffel

message: The commander is given as Eugene, Prince of Wurtemberg in the "SCENARIO 150628: "La Souffel" – 28th June 1815" source.
On Wikipedia "Wurtemberg" (the same spelling of which I have seen in other documents so not a typo) is spelt Württemberg. The history of Württemberg contains this 
:In return for these favours Frederick joined Napoleon Bonaparte in his campaigns against Prussia, Austria and Russia, and of 16,000 of his subjects who marched to Moscow only a few hundred returned. Then, after the Battle of Leipzig (October 1813), King Frederick deserted the waning fortunes of the French emperor, and by a treaty made with Metternich at Fulda in November 1813 he secured the confirmation of his royal title and of his recent acquisitions of territory, while his troops marched with those of the allies into France. In 1815 the king joined the German Confederation, but the Congress of Vienna made no change in the extent of his lands. (This is a cut and past paragraph from  Encyclopædia Britannica Eleventh Edition)
A Prince/Duke Eugene von/of Württemberg fought for the Russians at the Battle of Borodino, Battle of Vyazma and the Battle of Leipzig -- even thought Württemberg at this time was on the side of the French. The trouble is that he is not mentioned the family tree in articles like  Frederick I of Württemberg and Eugene seems to be a traditional first or second name in that family (Sigh!). There is a further complication the Wikipedia article on the Battle of Leipzig says "Russian General Eugene Duke of Württemberg was notable in his extreme bravery directing his troops under fire." (According to this Wikipedia article "Rulers of Württemberg" - "In 1803, the Duke of Württemberg was raised to the rank of Elector of the Holy Roman Empire." So perhapse the title of Duke was handed to a relative, or he was a prince and not a duke) 
So was the man commanding the Württemberg troops in 1815 the same man as fought for the Russians, or is it a different or is it Eugene of Württemberg? I don't know yet. However the multiple sources do indicate that the Württemberg forces were fighting for the Coalition in 1815 and that a chap called Eugene was an experienced commander.
--PBS 11:16, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Coalition commander

message: There is an article called "Hoenheim#History" which states on its talk page that it is a translation:
:Following the defeat of Waterloo, the General Jean Rapp, having had wind of intentions to annex Alsace, lined up under the orders of Louis XVIII and continued to fight on the Souffel, just before Hoenheim. On June the 28 and 29, 1815, proceeded the battle of Souffelweyersheim-Hoenheim seeing the victory of the troops of the coalisation, Strasbourg was taken on July 9.
The French version of the same article  ( fr:Hoenheim#Histoire) that states:
* En 1813, la campagne de Russie de Napoléon Ier se termine en catastrophe, il parvient difficilement à rejoindre la France, mais les troupes de la coalition le suivent. En janvier 1814, les troupes françaises se replient à Strasbourg devant les attaques des cosaques qui s'installent à Hoenheim, Bischheim et Schiltigheim. Puis, Napoléon Ier, battu, fut banni à l'île d'Elbe. 
Cependant son évasion entraîna le retour des troupes coalisées qui venaient juste de se retirer. Suite à la défaite de Waterloo, le Général Jean Rapp, ayant eu vent d'intentions d'annexion de l'Alsace, se rangea sous les ordres de Louis XVIII et continua à se battre sur la Souffel, aux portes de Hoenheim. 
Le 28 juin 1815 a eu lieu la bataille de Souffelweyersheim-Hoenheim, opposant le général Rapp et le Kronprinz de Wurtemberg . Les 16.000 hommes du général Rapp ne purent battre les 42.000 hommes des troupes de la coalisation.
Le 29 juin 1815, lendemain de la bataille de la Souffel, le Kronprinz de Wurtemberg fit incendier le village de Souffelweyersheim.
The German version also calls it "Schlacht von Souffelweyersheim-Hœnheim"
-- PBS 23:10, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Hoenheim

message: Given that we all seem interested in this subject would there also be interest in the fortress campaign and getting articles out on them?  I have a great source in that area with Peter Hofschroder's book. Tirronan 16:10, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: On a different but related subject

message: I've found one source on this The Waterloo Campaign: June, 1815 By Albert A. Nolfi, I'll see if I can find another. Tirronan 16:47, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: source

message: From the talk pages of User talk:Albrecht and User talk:PBS
:With regards to your edit to the Battle of La Suffel, please can you discuss the sources you used for the edit on the talk page. I am particularly interested in where the names of the Coalition commanders come from. --PBS (talk) 11:54, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm, I may innocently have stepped onto some pretty convoluted terrain. A French wiki page—of course, now I'm blanking—gave the commander as the Kronprinz of Württemberg, from which I made an obvious deduction. Schwarzenberg, of course, was in overall command on the Rhine. That's all I can say. Albrecht (talk) 00:10, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

text: As can be seen by the footnotes I did indeed find a reference: William Siborne. The Waterloo Campaign, 1815,  pp 771-772 --PBS (talk) 12:46, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit 14 January 2008 

message: The claim that 20 000 French defeated 80 000 opponents at this battle seems very specious to me. I checked the online source and it says nothing of the sort, noting that there were 60 000 in the region, but makes no mention of numbers at the battle. -Oreo Priest 17:17, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It is by chance that I have edited this article today, I have been writing additional sections to the Hundred Days article when I saw the numbers online in William Siborne. The Waterloo Campaign, 1815, pp 771-772. I had not seen you comment before I made the changes. --PBS (talk) 00:51, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Fancy that. Good job! I love Wikipedia. -Oreo Priest 07:59, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Numbers