Talk:Joseph Galloway

message: I have removed the two existing citations as erroneous. Neither supports Galloway as a Founding Father. The source referenced by the first citation is by the same writer who authored the following articles (none of the three specifically names Galloway or other signers of the Continental Association as "founders"), while the author of the second clearly states Galloway is not regarded a Founder. 
* Patriots Turned Loyalist - The Experiences of Joseph Galloway and Isaac Low, Richard J. Werther, Journal of the American Revolution, February 21, 2018
* Reconciliation Between the Colonies and Great Britain - A Close Call, Richard J. Werther, Journal of the American Revolution, May 16, 2019
I suggest the lead needs to be written, and information from the above sources as well as the following (among others) is needed to provide a better understanding of the subject.
* Galloway, Joseph 1731–1803, U.S. House of Representatives
* Joseph Galloway and the British Occupation of Philadelphia, John L. Coleman, Pennsylvania History: A Journal of Mid-Atlantic Studies, 1963
Based on the four sources, the title Founding Father should be removed from the lead and the following needs to be summarized to provide a more accurate understanding of the subject: Galloway wasn't just a Loyalist - he was among the leading traitors to the American cause. He refused to run for the Second Continental Congress in 1775, opposed the Declaration, and within a few months of its signing, he joined the British army as one of Gen. Howe's closest aides. After providing military intelligence to Howe, helping him with logistics, and recruiting spies (up to 80), he was appointed to govern Philadelphia during its occupation. When the British evacuated, he fled to England and later was convicted of high treason by the Pennsylvania Assembly. This is not to say some of the current details don't belong in the lead, just that this other side deserves equal if not greater time. Allreet (talk) 07:57, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, signers of the other three founding documents are accepted per sources and various talk page discussions as Founding Fathers, and since there is no dispute that the Continental Association is a founding document, site consistency applies. Besides the defining 2017 Werther article "Analyzing the Founders: A Closer Look at the Signers of Four Founding Documents" in the Journal of the American Revolution here are two other sources which, for consistency and per WP:COMMONSENSE, acknowledge that the Founders include the signers of the fourth: The Founder of the Day article "Signers of the Continental Association" clearly states "Below is a list of the Founders who signed the Continental Association" [emphasis mine], followed by the names of the 53 signers (Founder of the Day also names the Association as one of the four founding documents). The worldhistory.edu "Top 10 Founding Fathers of the United States of America" - section "List of Founding Fathers of the United States" asserts "Also, two broader groups of Founding Fathers capture the signers of Articles of Confederation (the initial version of the American Constitution which was adopted in 1777 and ratified in 1781) and the signers of the Continental Association (created on October 20, 1774)" [emphasis mine]. Please add these sources to the pages of the other Association signers you are intent of removing from Founding Father status, thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 04:02, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed citations for "Founding Father"