Talk:Erika Steinbach

message: The opening paragraph shall only contain name and date of birth (not place of birth), per MoS (biographies). UweBayern (talk) 15:17, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Steinbach, came to our country with Hitler and had to flee with Hitler - Polish Minister Radoslaw Sikorski--Jacurek (talk) 16:16, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Opening paragraph

message: I think that the article should be modified as to the criticism of E. Steinbach in Poland. The reasons for the Polish critique are, among others, as follows:
* (in the context of her possible presidency of the Centre Against Expulsions) - she was strongly against Polish membership in the EU and NATO, she was one of the most active opponents of the Polish-German border treaty (and voted against it as one of very few members of the German parliament), what, from the Polish point of view, makes her unable to participate in management of historical and scientific museum, which is to deal also with Poland, due to the lack of objectivity;
* in 1990s she continued to put in question the Polish-German border;
* she is strongly associated with the Centre Against Expulsions, which is seen as anti-Polish; the Poles are often furious of the Centre's website and the data presented there, e.g. the number of Poles expelled from Poland during the World War II (400 thousand according to the Centre's website /presented as "deported from Poland"/, compared with official numbers amounting to 2 millions) or the information about the city of Gdańsk (as per the website, it was founded in 1224/25 as a German city, while it was founded in 997 by Mieszko I of Poland);
* there is a fear that she may be likely to marginalise German war crimes and try to present "expelled"/"deported" Germans as victims of the war in the same context as Jews, Poles and other nations.
In general, her political life was full of anti-Polish actions and she is regarded as heavily biased against Poland. These are the reasons for her critique in Poland. The article mentions almost only her bad reputation and exhibitions she organised, while her political campaign against Polish borders and membership in international organisations are the reasons for this critique. Montessquieu (talk) 20:22, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Which exactly facts do you mean? The ones generated by German media? BTW Erika Steinbach has been using very tasteless methods against Poland and Poles since many years. And German media attacked Kaczynski brothers eg. as potatoes. Erika Steinbach idealises her father, a Luftwaffe officer who stationed in occupied Poalnd. The majority of Poles don't understand the difference betwen Nazi forms.
Xx236 (talk) 09:39, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

text: My intention was not to start any discussion on whether the above-mentioned statements are true or false, but to present reasons for the critique of E.S. in Poland, as it's one of the sections in the article. In other words, the section is not to suggest whether the Poles are right or not. It's role is to show main points of the critique (which may be biased, determined by history or whatever, or may be fully objective as well). The provided statements are from Polish press. Regards, Montessquieu (talk) 16:24, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

text: Please give me a quote of Mr. Bartoszewski saying that Steinbach is a blonde beast. He denied that he called her like this on his blog. He explains that he used in one of his speech the term from Die Zeit newspaper (also there is a book in Poland: "E.S. A beauty or beast?") and media misrepresented it as his own opinion about E.S - probably to cause sensation. So you were misinformed in this matter. The worst thing that Mr Bartoszewski said about Mr. Steinbach was calling her "anti-Polish". While he is not so great in diplomacy in my opinion he is not so stupid to use such an abusive term and therefore I do not believe only a few results from Google where Mr. Bartoszewski is connected with "blonde beast". There are a lot of mistakes in press so I would rather believe Mr. Bartoszewski denial. However, if you have a better quote of his speech please provide it. 89.79.103.10 (talk) 20:00, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Criticism in Poland

message: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Halibutt/Erika_of_Rumia.Xx236 (talk) 07:33, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Erika z Rumi - translation 

message: I don't know if it's correct, but the former version was false.Xx236 (talk) 07:37, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  For most of pre-WWII period  

message: Rumia was occupied by Germany. Erika Steinbach says Rahmel/Westpr. suggesting she was born in Germany proper. An English language reader should be informed about the context. Xx236 (talk) 07:46, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It's funny to see how you forgot to mention circumstances surrounding German annexation in 1939 (and how much it eventually cost everybody), while pointing out lack of plebiscite in 1920. If you want to put things into context, I think this is a more appropriate one. Cyon (talk) 04:45, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: No it isn't. The article you are referring to deals for a large part with victims of Josef Stalin. What have they to do with Erika Steinbach!? If the history of the place before the birth of Steinbach is relevant in her biography at all (which I seriously doubt), the history of occupations and annexations of Rahmel did not start in 1939 but in 1920. The occupation took place in 1920. From the German point of view, the place was merely liberated after 19 years of Polish occupation in 1939. No Polish occupation in 1920 would mean no need to take it back a few years later. UweBayern (talk) 12:26, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

text: I thought we were discussing here legitimacy to call the town in question by its German name at the time of Erika Steinbach's birth, not Erika Steinbach herself. You bring forward what you call "the German point of view" - can you tell me how you differrentiate "the German point of view" of that time from Nazi ideology? Were Germans free to voice any opinion they wanted and not actually compelled to declare as their own views what Nazis wanted them to? I gave the link to the WWII article in order to put all this discussion into broader context of events. The invasion of Poland and subsequent annexation of Rumia, as well as renaming it to Rahmel - all this happened during this War, at which time only the Axis countries regarded it as legitimate. Moreover, all these were the deeds of the Nazi government, which is now universally regarded as a totalitarian regime guilty of many crimes against humanity, and subsequently most of its acts are considered illegitimate, also in Germany. Therefore, the integration into Germany proper you talk about can also be safely regarded as illegitimate, and, what follows logically, Rumia was part of occupied Poland, not of Germany. So IMO, for the years 1939-1945, we should use a name suitable for a Polish town, not a German one. Cyon (talk) 15:17, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The name Rahmel in Westpreussen says that there existed some Westpreussen as a German land 1939-1945. Erika Steinbach uses the name pretending she was expelled from Germany. Yes, you are right it's a Nazi POV, but I prefer to be careful, because I used to have problems with many German editors, who didn't like my texts.Xx236 (talk) 07:00, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rahmel/Westpr. is not the matter of language 

message: "the rights of Germans who were expelled from former German territories which became Polish following the Nazi defeat in 1945? - the quoted article doesn't contain exactly such words. 
The problem with Erika Steinbach and BdV is that they represent also "the rights" of Germans who settled or were born in Nazi occupied Poland and returned after the war to Germany.Xx236 (talk) 11:50, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia is not a soapbox. UweBayern (talk) 12:32, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where have you found such words? 

message: No, it wasn't. It was occupied by Nazi Germany.Xx236 (talk) 13:14, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it wasn't, it was reannexed and integrated into Germany. Military occupation and annexation are two completely different things. Rahmel was never part of occupied Poland. UweBayern (talk) 13:46, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It's your POV. My POV is that all German annexations were illegal, and Rumia was a Polish town occupied by Nazi Germany.Xx236 (talk) 06:54, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That remains your POV. You should start your own blog, your own POV is not relevant for Wikipedia. I could argue my POV is that Stalinist-Polish annexations after WWII were illegal and Silesia remains part of Germany, how about that? UweBayern (talk) 05:29, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Was reannexed to Germany in 1939 

message: What is a "reconciliatory suitcase"?Xx236 (talk) 10:39, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  reconciliatory suitcase  

message: The Federation of Expellees claims it has around 2 million members. This is a Wikipedia, not the Federation propaganda forum.Xx236 (talk) 07:30, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Stop throwing word around.  The size of the organization is important to establishing context. - Schrandit (talk) 17:46, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I really cannot make out what you are trying to say there.  You've filed a WP:IRS, they gave you an answer.  If an organizations says it hase 2,000,000 members it is fine to write that the organization says that it has 2,000,000 members. - Schrandit (talk) 17:27, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

text: Thanks for the research. - Schrandit (talk) 14:52, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Federation of Expellees, an organisation with around 2 million members 

message: Centre Against Expulsions has been replaced by the Visible Sign and Bundesstiftung Flucht, Vertreibung, Versöhnung. Xx236 (talk) 12:55, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Centre Against Expulsions  

message: The biography contains several informations quoted in the article, sometimes referred as "Citation needed". Xx236 (talk) 09:13, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bundestag biography 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Maybe, but mostly German victims of the Expulsion.Xx236 (talk) 13:10, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:   all over the world in the past century 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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