Talk:Delian League

message: This article is written poorly, I believe.  Perhaps it is just my view, but it sounds like a high school history paper, and the citations are about as plentiful.  Not a very good piece of work for a wiki, I have to say.
Uh, why is this article almost completely sourceless? The whole second half has no sources at all. Deletion (talk) 04:29, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks like an accident of WP history - the oldest version starts off with the shocking news that the democratic Athenians were also nasty imperialists, so the titling was presumably to make a political point.  I would say to move it to Delian League, just because OCD does it that way. :-) Be sure to delete Delian League first so we can do a history-preserving move. Stan 18:52, 17 Oct 2003 (UTC)

text: Many classical scholars apparently favor the term though - in the OCD under "Delian League" they say "'Athenian empire' might be a better title for this article, but not all students of imperialism admit that Athens had an empire in the full sense", and their article uses "empire" and "imperial" in several places. I'm going to cast my lot with the experts. On anachronism, see empire. Stan 13:42, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments

message: To the anon IPs, and registered accounts likewise, who are commenting on the lack of sources and poor quality of the article: this is Wikipedia; the encyclopaedia anyone can edit. Register an account if you don't already have one, and start improving things instead of being an armchair critic. ColdmachineTalk 09:03, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: This is a wiki, is it not?

message: The Delian League grows into the Athenian Empire.  While the Athenian Empire can always be called the Delian League, the League is not always the Empire, this refers especially to the early League but also to states (such as the cities of Lesbos) that were part of the League but still autonomous from Athens and not an intergrated part of the Empire of the Athenians as they did not pay tribute but perserved a more normal basis of Alliance. [Unknown author]
* This article should be entitled the Athenian Empire OR there should be a separate article for the Athenian Empire.  There are separate considerations for both the League and the Empire which lasts until its defeat by Sparta in 404 BCE.  Whoever reverted the Athenian Empire article to the Delian League did a genuine injustice to its historical documentation, apparently out of a lack of knowledge.  The Athenian Empire undergoes a number of changes and has a larger impact that can not be faithfully documented here without altering the nature of the current article on the Delian League, including the fact that the Delian League becomes a number of subjugated city-states rather than willing participants. That by itself is one of the definitions of "Empire".  There is a large substantiation for this, as the "alliance" city-states were either paying taxes to Athens or paying tribute (The Athenian Tribute Lists) to Athens of which there is extensive documentation.  Furthermore, by accounting for this "grouping" as a league and not an Empire, the economic undertones that supported its formation cannot be included here, in spite of its central importance to the rise of power of Athens.  At the demise of the Athenian Empire which survived several different wars, it is questionable if there still is a Delian League, since much of Athens control over Greece and the Aegean has eroded.  In any case, you will find scholarly books on both topics, the Athenian Empire and the Delian League, in any firstclass library - hence this article should be split...
Stevenmitchell 02:01, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  League v. Empire 

message: Exaclty why is the map of the Delian League not in English?  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.62.134.131 (talk) 00:07, August 21, 2007 (UTC) 
Yes this is what confussed me, I am searching for a english version now and I am going to put the link up on here. METALFREAK04 (talk) 12:29, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Fantastic! Looks good now. ColdmachineTalk 07:58, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Non-English Map 

message: Anybody object to my shuffling some things around so it's in chronological order?Ifnkovhg (talk) 04:43, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Timeline? 

message: The Origins and the Nature of the Athenian Alliance of 478/7 B. C. by N. G. L. Hammond Source: The Journal of Hellenic Studies, Vol. 87, (1967), pp. 41-61 says AOrYvatlo Kal o aO vityuaxo (which is the best I can do for the Greek) does not mean League.
And what is the difference between the Delian League and the Athenian Alliance? And, was it formed for the Siege of Byzantium, or as a result of it?
Thanks--Doug Weller (talk) 10:53, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  League or Alliance? 

message: *She(revolting nation) called to Sparta for assistance but was denied.
*An aftermath of the war was that relations between Athens and Sparta turned into hostility.
She asks the Spartans to help when they revolted against Athens/the league(same thing at this point), and they refused.  It says because of the war which Spartans stayed out of, and had nothing to do with, Spartans and Athens became hostile towards each other.  Something else going on which isn't in the article yet?  Dream Focus 18:45, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  It says the Spartans refused to get involved in a war against Athens, and this made them enemies of Athens later on?  What? 

message: Guys, the term "Delian League" is a modern invention. "The Athenians and their allies" is NOT the "name" given to the League by ancient sources. The League had no name. The phrase "the Athenians and their allies" merely indicates that what we now call the Delian League was an alliance led by Athens. Please, STOP giving an ancient equivalent for the term "Delian League" -- there simply isn't one. I have a PhD in the field; please trust me on this. Ifnkovhg (talk) 02:14, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, there wasn't a specific term (a "name") to refer to the Delian League, but. Like every other existing and known phenomenon, it was referred to, and and the way it was referred to should be indicated - that's basic information that the reader is always interested in. Since it was referred to by means of various descriptive phrases instead of a name, the most common phrase(s) should be indicated.--91.148.159.4 (talk) 19:52, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

text: And note, if people keep wanting to insert something into the article, it may be useful to think why they're doing this and whether there might be something wrong with the article as well, rather than just with the people. What people have been reacting to is that it's just abnormal to have a historical phenomenon and not to have an explanation of the way it is/was referred to by its contemporaries. By all means do specify that the phrases used to refer to it weren't names, but don't leave the article without any information about ancient ways of reference at all.--91.148.159.4 (talk) 19:58, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Here we go again. 

message: Amphipolis was founded in 437/6 under the Athenian general Hagnon (Thuc. I. 100, IV. 102). Athens made an attempt to found a colony at Ennea Hodoi (near Amphipolis) c.465, but this proved unsuccessful and is known as the disaster at Drabescus (Thuc. I. 100).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.235.231.148 (talk) 05:45, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Amphipolis founded in 465?

message: There are several references to a book (?) by one "Holland". A title etc may be useful. 82.170.163.136 (talk) 16:59, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The lack of information is certain not helpful. It seems to have been added in May 2009 by  so I've asked if they can elaborate, but they haven't edited since November. Nev1 (talk) 17:08, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It very much seems to tie up with this book by Tom Holland. SpinningSpark 17:46, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I an mot sure whether Tom Holland (who is not a professional historian) can rank as a source of reliable source of information.82.170.163.136 (talk) 23:24, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Holland? 

message: reference 6 is completly wrong and needs to either be removed of edited  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.152.167.94 (talk) 22:01, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Reference #6 is Thucydides.  You want to rewrite Thucydides?  Good luck with that project. SpinningSpark 01:54, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Reference #6 is Thucydides 1.96, I have several copies in front of me right now and none claim that it was 454 BCE when the treasury was moved nor that it was done by Pericles; instead it describes the introduction of the Treasurers of Hellas by the Athenians, and the Landmark translation by Strassler and Crawley claim this date as 478 BCE. A better reference would be in said translation, as "Appendix B: The Athenian Empire in Thucydides" by A.L. Boegehold for the publication in 1998 does claim the treasury was moved in 454/3 BCE (paragraph 11, page 587), although this has no direct textual reference. Jarl51 (talk) 15:23, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Reference 6

message: What about an infobox for former country as it refers to a empire? Dourvakis (talk) 20:39, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox for former country