Template talk:Infobox Australian place/Archive 1

message: * Nominate and Support SauliH 05:25, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have updated User talk:Orderinchaos/Temperature also with abbreviated units. I hope you dont mind Orderinchaos!!!!SauliH 05:11, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  That's fine guys, it's a playpen anyway :) It was only really chucked up as a quick nasty, it'll get speedy deleted when this is all done. As a complete aside, I'm not sure I'd want to live in Woop Woop :D Orderinchaos 09:35, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Elevation 

message: Not sure what the point is of this field, and not sure how much 'encyclopedic' value there is to including it... I can be convinced - but I would like to see other fields included before this one.
* Nominate and withholding opinion till after discussionSauliH 05:29, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: domain.com.au has a per-postcode listing of properyt values, and i think you can access it per suburb too. see Template:Infobox Town AU that template generates the link automatically from the postcode.
I wouldn't be sad to see it removed. If it is retained, it should be for use on suburbs only.--cj | talk 03:22, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Property values 

message: Every locale develops differently, and has its own story. I would drop the current field. If others want it, please change it to be more specific, ie date town gazetted, first recorded date of town name usage. It could be useful if framed better.
* Nominate and withholding opinion till after discussionSauliH 05:35, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: On some of the ones I've been working on recently, there seems to be very little formality about when a town arises, and the gazettal date can be decades after the fact. In at least two cases of which I'm aware a town has actually been gazetted several times under different names for different purposes. Orderinchaos 23:29, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Establishment dates 

message: Currently "city" type infoboxes are using the population_estimate field for population data rather than the pop field used in town and suburb infoboxes. To maintain consistency the pop field should be used for all infoboxes. The population_estimate_year field could also be removed as it can be covered by the referenced data source.  I know this doesn't affect many infoboxes but does reduce the number of fields to manage in the code. It would also be good to see population_estimate_rank renamed to pop_rank and population_density to pop_density, but this probably me being pedantic :)
*Nominate and Support - ◄§ĉҺɑʀκs► 07:58, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I personally like having the rank although it would be a pain to update when the rankings change. I think I'll go ahead and make the changes I outlined above as it should not alter the appearance of the infobox anyway. Hopefully the bot can handle the changes. ◄§ĉҺɑʀκs► 08:16, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The bot can handle anything... TheJosh
*Support removal of rank and density. The list is getting long, and if we are to chop anything, these would be the first two of the remainder that I would see go.SauliH 16:34, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Population estimate and Population estimate year

message: These are fields that cause a red dot to be overlaid at the x and y position of the image, :Image:City locator blank-MJC.png. It is used by Aust City, but was only used in 5 articles. (ex: Wangaratta, Victoria) do we need this? 
* Nominate and Support: as outlined above TheJosh 08:42, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Locator_x / Locator_y 

message: Why do we need this? Isn't it a detail of the state? Also check-out User Talk:TheJosh/Play, where I made a version which automatically calculates the time zone according to the state (when type=city)
* Nominate and Support: as outlined above --TheJosh 12:34, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That is what User:TheJosh/Play does. See and play with the example at User Talk:TheJosh/Play --TheJosh 02:55, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have made another suggestiong for this problem, have a look There...--TheJosh 05:34, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Timezone (city) 

message: I would just like to say that i will make a bot for this merge, and as a result, we can change the fields in this future infobox as much as we want, coz the bot will map the old field names to the new field names, and will generally work everything out for us. Any syggestions would be helpful... TheJosh 07:13, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Im going to have all fields that get discared, and their values, listed in the talk page for altered articles, so that real users can add the data to the prose. also, work has begun on the script, it can currently download an article, take out its infobox and get the param names and values from it...TheJosh 21:29, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds excellent. Keep up the good work. ◄§ĉҺɑʀκs► 21:53, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I'm waiting approval. (do you know anyone in the bots approval team?) I am going to do some tests on my personal wiki (http://josher.byethost8.com/wiki/) once the code is complete. TheJosh 08:00, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know anyone on the team. Looks like we'll have to wait it out :( ◄§ĉҺɑʀκs► 08:20, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And sadly I couldn't get it to log into my wiki, appears the server its on (not mine) is weirdly set up, so there goes my leverage for a quick approval...The bot is almost done though, it can log on, check its talk page for commands, load a page in edit mode, phase its html, phase the wiki-text to find an appropriate box and create the new box using params from the old one. The only thing it is missing is the virtual click of the save button, which I cant add till I get approval...TheJosh 09:35, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bot 

message: Territories which have their own pages are going to be interesting - they don't have a state. While some would argue Cocos (see also shire) and Christmas Island (see shire belong to WA, they don't - they are administered by DOTARS which provides state-like services on behalf of the Minister for Territories, but each has an elected shire council. They vote for the Federal Member for Lingiari and for NT Senate candidates but can't vote in WA state elections. Much the same is true of Norfolk Island. There's been proposals to change this into an NT-like Indian Ocean Territory and Norfolk Island Territory but I don't see either happening. Anyway, the issue is, no state. 
(Note Torres Strait (QLD) and Lord Howe Island (NSW) are fine as they are part of the state in question, and all others are effectively unpopulated and can be treated as Australian geographical features) Orderinchaos 16:32, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The state field isnt an entireley accurate field anyway. it already has N.T. and A.C.T., as well as provisoin for expansion, because you can give it an abitary value ie State=Christmas Island while not technically accurate, it forfills the pourpose of the field correctly. --TheJosh 05:00, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Cocos, Christmas, Norfolk, others

message: Have a look at User_talk:TheJosh/Play2 Its called data links.
* In the top infobox, the word population refers to population.
* In the bottom infobox, the word population, refers to User_talk:TheJosh/Play2#Population, due to the pop_lnk = #Population param.
What are peoples thoughts? --TheJosh 00:38, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good feature. It allows for a few possibilities - it's #Demographics in some, #Geography in others and in still others it's the only reference to the population on the page. Orderinchaos 06:03, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

text: So does it automatically detect if a section in the article contains the heading 'Population, or does it get entered as a parameter? Either way it is a neat addition. One question though. Is there anyway to link to the Nairne census page at the ABS website? Or are we doing this another way?SauliH 04:29, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Currently it doesnt automatically detect a section, but this may be possible. One thing we could do is have the template insert a <ref> tag automatically, which refers to the abs website in the  section. TheJosh 05:11, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just looked at that link. With rationalisation I got it down to ___ (gotta love these autogenerated messy system thingies! :)). The key is UCL418200 (UCL = urban locality), changing it to SSC51011 (state suburb) for example gives Alfred Cove while POA6230 (postcode) gives Bunbury. This parameter could be coded in as an optional field. Orderinchaos 06:00, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

text:  Looks good - though wouldn't it be better to use the key as above, to allow for suburbs and localities which can be a lot more specific than postcode? (I know of one extreme example in Perth where dire levels of poverty and a wealthy coastal estate of about equal population exist in the same postcode). Orderinchaos 07:46, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with this. Population of Nairne by locality = 2,777, however population by postcode = 4,294. I would assume population by locality is more relevant. ◄§ĉҺɑʀκs► 08:07, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sadly the abs website is not very automation-friendly, and in my opinion, has too muct infomation at a glance for an area, its too confusing, even if we get the right codes. TheJosh 08:16, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Does the ABS publish a list of their locality codes? It could be a mini project for one of us to go through and eneter the numbers at some point in the future. While the ABS does provide a load of data on one page, someone who is going to use the link, may very well be on top of their statistics  and can navigate the 'confusion'. I do think it adds a lot to be directed to THE page that the data is located on, rather than a search page generic to any locality. You have shown us that it can be done, I say we put the capability in to generate the link. Oh, and I agree that it should be the locality code, not the postcode. SauliH 05:50, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have a list for metropolitan Adelaide, Perth and Wollongong. Orderinchaos 10:53, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I originally thought of data links for linking to a section in the article. If we were to have abs links, it would be better to only tell the infobox the abs code, and let the infobox build the link from there. We could even use PF somehow, to, if the value begins with # do as an internal link, if it begins with UCL make into a link to abs. --TheJosh 21:25, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This idea has a lot of merit. With potentially thousands of pages, a change in the addressing structure at the ABS, could mean days of editing URL's (of course a bot could be built to). Chances are high though, that they will retain the codes regardless of website upgrades. It would be simple then to change the template code, and instantly the links are updated. In fact this method has a lot of merit for all standardised website sthat are used as links. BOM is like this. Maybe it could be designed for other links also. SauliH 02:50, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Data Links