Talk:Kurdish tanbur

message: I have read most of the discussions below about the "origins" (!) of the instrument. They are irrelevant. The Turkish tanbur is NOT the Persian one. I listen to and adore Ostad Elahi, but NEITHER the look nor the sound of his instrument have anything to the with those of the instrument played by Tanburi Cemil Bey and Necdet Yaşar, the two great masters of the Turkish tanbur. The Persian tanbur would be closer akin to the Turkish "Divan Sazı" which both looks like and demands a similar technique as that of the Persian tanbur; their sounds are more similar too. It follows that the question about the origins of the instrument are void of any sense. A remark on the etymology of the word can be given, but it must be distinguished from the discussion about the origins of the instruments themselves. The Turkish instrument is doubtlessly derived from the Byzantine Tambouras modified according to Turkish makams which use notes inexistent on the Byzantine scale (and vice versa of course...) and is most probably influenced in its further development by the Anatolian "bağlama", which has, in turn, its roots in Central Asia. Another remark is that, both the nationalism of my co-patriots who wrote on the page and that of the others is TIRING. This is supposed to be article about MUSIC.
And the remark about Rumi... Please... He is a Persian speaking Iranian naturalized as a Seldjukide citizen. THAT'S ALL. He belongs to the world of every Turkish child as a part of his/her culture, but equally to the that of every Iranian. I'm probably not supposed say such things, but I think he would be ashamed to see that such a discussion is even possible.
Yet I repeat, I ask the first person who knows how to create a disambiguation page to do it immediately. I have scanned pictures of the Turkish tanbur for upload and have much to write about the playing techniques. Thank you. Ekindedeoglu 21:41, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the Tanbur disambig was set up around the same time you left these comments. But I have fleshed it out a bit based on "Tanbur" in The New Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians. I think in the long run, that page will become (and be more useful as) a set index article. Please have a look at Tanbur and Talk:Tanbur, see what you think. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 22:18, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Turkish Tanbur/Tambur: Urgent need for a disambiguation page! 

message: Tembûr is also the name of a Kurdish string instrument played in south eastern Kurdistan (region of Kirmaşan/Iranian Kurdistan). It's a sacred and mostly religious instrument used by sufis to reach the state of ecstacy in a musical tradition that is considered one of the most ancient and deep-rooted musical traditions in the world. Recently, tembûr players like Ali Akbar Moradi have begun to make it more secular and release albums containing music played by this instrument—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Asheemak (talk • contribs) 03:29, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tembûr  

message: I have reverted this article to an earlier version. I happened to come across this article, and it seemed to be talking about a variety of instruments with similar names. It turns out that a large amount of text had been pasted in from pandura. I think perhaps that some instruments that might be called a tambura had been included, as well. I have linked to these articles from a new "See also" section. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 05:48, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Article cleanup

message: An anonymous editor added text that was apparently copied from here. This same text had also appeared in the Pandura article (also see Talk:Pandura. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 21:10, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyright violation 

message: I've added the  tag to the article because it only addresses the Turkish tanbur.  From what I gather there is a similar Persian instrument with the same name (see link in "Copyright violation" section) and there may be other uses.  I realize this article is already tagged as a "stub," but that generally means the content needs to be expanded.  I wish to point out that the scope of the article needs to be expanded, as well (I almost added  but it didn't seem quite right). -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 21:31, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And now I've just noticed that someone had already mentioned this issue in the "Clarification" section. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 21:32, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Incomplete

message: I suggest that this article be split up into different articles that discuss tanburs from different musical traditions.  I'm the person that originally created this article over a year ago.  I originally created it with the Turkish tanbur in mind, however over time, a number of great additions were made discusing the Persian tanbur, as well as the instrument by that name from other traditions.  Now, the article has been modified enough so that it's basically a page that focuses on the Persian tanbur, with mention that it appears in other traditions.
I think it's become to confusing to have one article represent this instrument in all it's traditions, so I suggest a disambiguation page that points to different pages that discuss tanburs from different countries.  I welcome any discussion on this suggestion. jeff.lopez-stuit 18:48, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would say go for it.  There was (actually, still is) a similar issue with the Pandura article; see Talk:Pandura. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 20:06, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Suggestion to split Tanbur articles

message: The last para compares the "evolution" of this instrument to "evolutionary theory of punctuated equilibrium". Man-made things do not evolve, i.e. develop spontaneously; they are developed by their designers.  Besides, any man-made thing follows this kind of development: a thing is made good enough, and when the utilization of that thing outgrows its  design, it is developed further (cars, computers, crockery... anything you can think of). If it needs saying at all, it would be better simply to mention that the tanbur has throughout its history been developed in phases. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.184.72.38 (talk • contribs) 15:55, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Evolution? 

message: This article makes a lot of major claims about the historic nature of the tambur, but with no solid references except to a couple of websites which are obviously "pro-tanbur" sites.  At least one of the editors on this article also seems to have a history of posting unreferenced information in other articles as well, so as to avoid future problems, I would like to see some additional references from more reliable sources in this article, or perhaps for it to be edited down with fewer grandiose adjectives. --Elonka 19:55, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: References

message: Quarl, you are in violation of Wikipedia's rules. You cannot change what I write in the discussion board. This is considered vandalism. Read the rules! You are welcome to write your own opinion, but not to manipulate mine. I wrote the original article based on reading dozens of books and 30 years of research. You can also go to the Tanbur Society website www.tanbursociety.com, which is a society for the preservation and propagation of the Tanbur and you will clearly see the information is correct.
This article and photograph pertains only to the original Persian Kurdish Tanbur. NOT the Kazakhs or any other ethnic group. Dombra is not Persian or Kurdish. Maybe you should start a new section for it, but it does not belong part of this.
Wikipedia is not a place for personal attacks, but a place for learning.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.174.13.231 (talk) 07:27, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please use the edit summaries correctly. DenizTC 15:14, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Are you User:Johnyajohn ? DenizTC 15:30, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Persian Kurdish Tanbur

message: I agree with 68.174... Tanbur is 100% Kurdish/Persian, I should know, I have played it for 35 years. Hasan K. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.0.30.180 (talk • contribs) 
:Lol, do you claim that you and that "68.174..." are not the same person? DenizTC 02:44, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Tanbur is Kurdish/Persian

message: I restored tags that were deleted prematurely months ago. Lets discuss them. Also, we have the Hittite picture, so I don't thnk it is Persian either, if that matters. DenizTC 15:25, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: tags

message: I found out that this article was almost an exact copy of http://www.tanbursociety.com/tanbur.htm before the last few edits. It has probably been this way since September. DenizTC 16:39, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: How do you know that article is not a copy/paste of this article? Their website looks kind of amateurish. --Mardavich 18:45, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: See this, the anon that added all this also added that website. Are you that anon? Also, the website has a copyright 2004 tag DenizTC 02:32, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well, I hadn't see that diff and no, I am not the anon. You don't have to tag the article, just revert it to the version before the anon, and we'll slowly rebuild it using new materials as well as the original edits that were added after the copyvio insertion. --Mardavich 03:34, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please see /Temp DenizTC 03:46, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Looks good, we can expand it later. --Mardavich 03:57, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

text: FWIW archive.org does not have any record of the webpage in question, nor any other tanbursociety.com pages:  . -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 14:38, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

text: You can also add 63.164.145.85 to the list of suspects, though it would have involved blanking this page from a Los Angeles IP less than 8 hours after .55 made edits to Hajj Nematollah in New York. (Perhaps meatpuppetry is invovled?) -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 15:35, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  copyvio 

message: It is sad that Mr. "Gyrofrog" has become obsessed with us and has nothing better to do than attack everything we write. We did email and fax them and they emailed us back to okay everything. We are not the same as Johnjohn or anyone else, but if it makes you happy to think we are, good luck! With all due respect to Mr.gyrofrog, it is more than obvious your knowledge about the Persian/Kurdish Tanbur is next to 0. Anyone who knows anything about the Tanbur would laugh if they read the incorrect information you wrote. About self promotion, how can a non for profit website built to help educate others and keep a dying instrument alive be self promoting. We have only spent money to help keep a dying instrument alive, never took in a penny from anyone.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.201.146.55 (talk • contribs) 05:06, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps it's a coincidence that you and Johnyajohn have a tendency to work on the same articles, which often involves linking to websites that all have the same owner (I wonder if Keya Gallery is also a non-profit?). I did not write the current version, but I see that it does cite a source concerning the history of the instrument (i.e. Akkadian era). Note that this is the same information presented in the New Grove Dictionary of Music, so I think you face a tough battle if you want to convince others this data is unreliable. You are absolutely right in one regard, I do know next to nothing about the tanbur. That's what brought me to the Wikipedia article in the first place: I wanted to find more information. I was unsatisfied with the article and finally decided I should make an attempt at improvement (see Tanbur/Temp). So I went to a college library, something that doesn't require any specialized knowledge to do, and looked up "tanbur" in the Grove dictionary. If your website contains some specialized knowledge that Grove does not then it would be very helpful if you provide your own sources, either here or on your website. Otherwise, in this reader's opinion, your website is a primary source. I'm also not sure why we need to mirror your website at Wikipedia. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 21:14, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Please avoid making personal attacks. If you wish to release your text under the GFDL, please note that at your website. Thanks. PouponOnToast 13:24, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Don't talk nonsense. Garion96 (talk) 23:30, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  June 2007 

message: Currently Tanbur serves as a disambiguation page but Talk:Tanbur redirects here. I am going to remove the redirect, because the disambig. page should have its own talk page, given all of the confusion over the term (even the Grove Dictionary says the "terminology is a complicated situation"). -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 03:33, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Talk:Tanbur redirects here

message: Sumerian musical instrument :
*http://www.photographersdirect.com/buyers/stockphoto.asp?imageid=2793476
*http://www.biblelandpictures.com/gallery/gallery.asp?action=viewimage&categoryid=62&text=&imageid=14159&box=&shownew=
*http://www.photographersdirect.com/buyers/stockphoto.asp?imageid=2793477Samizambak (talk) 20:55, 4 
January 2014 (UTC)
The word Tambura refers to several stringed musical instruments:
* The Tanbur long-necked, string instrument originating in the Southern or Central Asia (Mesopotamia and Persia/Iran). This is the main article that speaks about the origins, types and variants of tanbur.
* The Iranian tanbur (Kurdish tanbur) instrument in allover Iran and in Ahl-e Haqq rituals.
* The Turkish tambur instrument in Turkey.
* The Tanpura (instrument) in India, used as a drone instrument.
* The yaylı tanbur is also played in Turkey
* The Tambura (instrument) played in Macedonia and Bulgaria.
* The Tamburica (Tamboura or tamburrizza) instruments, any member of a family of long-necked lutes popular in Eastern and Central Europe.
* The Tambouras instrument in Greece.
* The Tanbūra (lyre) instrument in East Africa and the Middle East.
* The Tambur is an instrument in XinJiang
* The Pandura instrument played in Ancient Greece and some other ancient civilisations, from the Mediterranean basin.
* The Domra, Russian instrument
* Bandura, Ukrainian instrument
* Dombra, instrument in Kazakhstan, Siberia, and Mongolia
Samizambak (talk) 21:01, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pandura ,Pandur ,Tanbur ,harp or gudi ? 

message: This article replaces :Tanbur/Temp, which itself was a rewrite of :Tanbur (Persian). The latter now redirects to :Tanbur (see :Talk:Tanbur (Persian)#Improvement, nomenclature etc. for details). -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 14:08, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Tembûr and Tanbur are obviously the same. They must be merged.--Taranet (talk) 01:21, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

text: Tanbur (Persian) was a redirect to :Tanbur, but :Talk:Tanbur (Persian) was apparently a talk page for both :Tanbur and :Tembûr (at this remove, I am not sure how or why).  Tembûr in turn was moved to :Iranian tanbur and then :Kurdish tanbur.  I just merged the page histories of :Talk:Tanbur (Persian) and :Talk:Kurdish tanbur (i.e., this page) and restored the earlier discussions.  Now I'm afraid I might have created a bit of a mess but it's unclear when (and again, how or why) :Talk:Tanbur (Persian) went from being the talk page of one article to that of another. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 18:08, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Redirects and merge