Talk:Washington University in St. Louis/Archive 3

message: I made a few edits today, addding the heading "Centers and Institutes," as it would be beneficial to have a comprehensive listing of WUSTL academic organizations.  Additionally, I added some information and liknks to a few centers/institutes, but the list is currently very small.  Contributions would be appreciated, as well as any comments suggestions. This unsigned comment was added by Lmbstl (talk • contribs) .
:Plenty of Universities have Centers and institutes, but why are the ones here so significant? why has so much space been devoted to them? I think we should dramatically revamp and perhaps even eliminate this section. But I want to hear other opinions.Astuishin 07:04, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Because of space concerns, Centers and Institutes have been moved to their own page: Centers_and_Institutes_of_Washington_University_in_St._Louis.  Please feel free to expand the page-- these organizations can be very influentual and deserve mention.Lmbstl 07:40, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll research the influence of these organizations and add anything I can find.Astuishin 08:13, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Centers and Institutes 

message: I removed Diwali because it just does not seem to fit the parameters for a university tradition. Its kind of like saying that Washington University annual Christmas party is a tradition. Simply put Diwali is already a tradition for over 800 million people, how is the Washington U. one unique amongst other ones? Because of the attendance records? Here's the wikipedia definition:
Diwali, also called Deepavali, is a major Hindu festival that is very significant in Hinduism, Sikhism and Jainism.
This is my reasoning but I would like to here other opinions. Thank You Astuishin 15:58, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This doesn't answer the question, it may be a cultural event but it simply cannot be classified as a tradition no matter how many students attend.- thank you  Astuishin 06:28, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I concur with Se2131, M seems to be equating student attendance to tradition. I seem to remember that students, attend their graduation's, exam's, and lunch hour's, in huge numbers. Yet these actions are not listed as traditions. Why? because these events are common occurrences on college campuses throughout the world. Which is why I object to the WU "Diwali show" being listed as a tradition. Celebrations for Diwali are common occurrence across the world, so why classify a celebration in one location as a tradition unique to that location. - thank you  Astuishin (talk) 06:42, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Diwali

message: Created "Libraries and Museums" heading along with a listing of the 14 WUSTL libraries.  Any suggestions and/or refinements woiuld be appreciated.  This unsigned comment was added by Lmbstl (talk • contribs) .
:created Washington University Library System page --Lmbstl 05:43, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I combine this and some of the other sections to try and make them more condensed Bancham 11:46, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It would be very nice if people could actually add content instead of deleting it.  I don't know why Bancham deleted references, further reading, and external links.  I am not going to reverse any edits until they are discussed here.  However, I believe that the deleted material was useful and should be reverted.  Additionally, I will make suggestions for expansion of the WUSTL page, since the page needs content more than it needs rearranging. --Lmbstl 15:20, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay i'm sorry if I offended Lmbstl, but if you compare the WUSTL page with other schools you'd quickly find that the external links section is getting out of hand, I mean you don't have to provide a link to every single website for the school. and of course intend to add more content, if one examine the talk page and the article history they will find that I have been contributing to this page for quite a while. Bancham 22:26, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I still think the st. louis colleges nav box is to large, and I also agree that the futher reading section needs to be restored. As for the external links I think they were I little bit much though some of the links could be restored. Astuishin 09:18, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I haven't yet seen any objections to a partial restoration . . . Lmbstl 04:50, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Created "Libraries and Museums" section 

message: An extensive listing of Danforth Campus Buildings has been added.  We may want to consider moving this to a sub-article.  Additoinally, the images that have been posted are licensed as fair-use; however, the images can easily be obtained by anyone living in the St. Louis area.  Given the already confrontational nature surrounding image use, I kindly ask that the images be replaced by free-use images. --Lmbstl 16:02, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I went ahead and moved the building content to a new subpage: Danforth Campus (Washington University in St. Louis).  Still need some help on the image issue, however.--Lmbstl 16:35, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Did you write the content on the sub page or did you get it straight from the Wash U website. Bancham 17:40, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't write anything, I simply moved it.  It is very clear on the history page that user:jefwun added the content.--Lmbstl 18:04, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  It looks a bit like a list to me and it really does not belong on wikipedia but others might think it has uses Astuishin 17:53, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Campus buildings

message: I think we can agree the WUSTL series can be improved.  Why don't we look at this in a more systematic way?
The following pages are excellent:
Cornell;
Duke University;
University of Chicago
They provide great examples of tight, well-referenced articles.  Why shouldn't the WUSTL series aspire to this standard?
It would be nice to submit the WUSTL articles for Wikipedia peer review.  However, I think there are some things that can be tightened.
Following are some areas where I think we can begin "tightening"-- we can explore the main WUSTL article heading by heading.  Please feel free to add suggestions and topics. --Lmbstl 05:04, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Goals and standards: improving the article series

message: I have tried to expand the WUSTL images.  Bai Li Min on Flickr has some great shots which he gave permission to use. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/minbaili/)   Here is what has been uploaded to Wikimedia Commons:  http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Washington_University_in_St._Louis --Lmbstl 15:22, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Does anyone have images of Crow Observatory at Crow Hall?  I just added a little article on it, andd it would be nice to have an image of the telescope or dome.  --Lmbstl 15:33, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I found a nice picture through Google search: here
Undergraduate Research might be more friendly than some other WU representatives. It's worth contacting them to ask. caz | speak 00:40, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I like the Images already posted on wikimedia particularly the one of McMillan hall, Crow Observatory looks good as well, however I still think we need a picture from the village quad. Caz, this would be facing the front doors of the village house right across from Lopata hall. The picture of Graham is sufficient, thanks for contanting Bai Ling Min Lmbstl, however Caz perhaps you could take a higher quality picture of Brookings. - thank you  Astuishin 04:21, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Also concerning your other post Caz, I am prepared put the shield up again, and to put it in your words press ahead & leave WU in the defensive'. Personally believe that the university, or rather zealots in the office of public affairs, is only interested in controlling the images associated with the page for identity campaign proposes. I thank you very much for your earlier post Lmbstl and apologize for misreading your comments. - thank you  Astuishin 04:30, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm a current student as well, and I would also, be willing to take some pictures, from what angle to do you want the picture of Brookings to be taken. Bancham 07:14, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please add your image requests here.  The requests will appear on the WikiProject WUSTL project page.  --Lmbstl 13:07, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Images on Wikimedia

message: I was on campus yesterday and took a bunch of photos of the Kemper Art Museum. They are posted to my Flickr account under a Creative Commons license; if you all want to decide which you like best, I can upload a full-size version to Wikimedia Commons. My Flickr page Chrestomanci 04:31, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Kemper Art Museum Photos

message: I suggest that we decide how the infobox will appear.  This also involves the logo/seal issue.  Let's use an infobox on this page to "tinker" with its appearance, and then we can arrive on a concensus as to how it should appear.  Right now, I think ot looks a little unbalanced and thin:
:I placed the shield at the top section, maybe the talk community can come up with some alternatives for it, Norte Dame uses an older archived crest, and I placed the logo back in the rightful logo section. Perhaps we could add a section for a total students figure, though I do not believe the info box should be expanded any further. I believe we should cease placing the seal in the info box as the university seems to have a vested tradition of not placing it on anything but documents of high importance. Astuishin 22:43, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I like the look of the infobox now.  (Although, isn;t there a logo that has a left alignment of the shield?  It might look better at the bottom of the box.)  I also agree-- we should not use the seal at all.  As for the shield, the text "Washington University in St. Louis is clearly is associated with the shield, per WUSTL guidelines.  Any other improvements?  I suggest we place it on the main article page as it appears here. --Lmbstl 15:12, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I just added the other logo version to the bottom of the infobox.  The centered version seemed too thin.  Thoughts? --Lmbstl 02:20, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the info box its most suitable as well, although I changed the of the logo to make it smaller. I agree wholeheartedly with sentiments expressed by caz and Lmbstl, and I think we should post the box on the main, however what actions should this page take if the administration were to remove the box again? - thank you  Astuishin 04:13, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We should put the info box back up, see no reason why we should not, and if the administration as a problem force them to show the laws that give the them power to have the shield removed. Bancham 07:10, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Astuishin, I know you hate that logo, but can we make it a little bigger?  How about an intermediate size (smaller than the shield, but bigger than the Bear)?  If we can agree on the appearance, we should restore the Infobox.  What do you think of this one:   Lmbstl 03:37, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

text: What do you think of the current WUSTL info box? --Lmbstl 17:47, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: First I would like to thank you Lmbstl, for taking the initiative to improve this page, the wikipedia project Washington U is a great idea for us to focus on specific pages and I think in time this article might be prepared for featured article status. I like most of the box but I’m opposed to the address of the campus being included, the coordinates are actually on the top of the page and the very bottom under External links there are maps of the campus. I don't believe the info box such be that detailed, and if one wanted to find that information they could just go to the maps section on the page.  I believe the enlarging the logo is fine, I would prefer that is was smaller however the size that it is right now is fine. - thank you  Astuishin 05:37, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No thanks needed-- I think we all would like to see the WUSTL series improve!  As for the infobox, I only inccluded the address info because it was on the Univ. Infobox Template.  It seemed to fit a set standard, so I included it.  I am fine with leaving it out.  As for the logo size, I prefer it as it is now.--Lmbstl 13:03, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The image of the logo at the bottom of the info box seems to be far to high in the resolution, I think is should be changed. It also appears that another individual has been placing new images in the wikimedia commons page. So far so good. - thank you  Astuishin 23:02, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That image was uploaded by Clyerla; it is ok for us to use (responsibly, of course). --Lmbstl 08:47, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

text: No not from my camp - thank you  Astuishin 10:01, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Infobox

message: So, are there any objecctions to returning the infobox to the WUSTL page as it appears here?  Please, list your responses! --Lmbstl 13:03, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No not from my camp - thank you  Astuishin 10:01, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Returning infobox to the WUSTL article

message: The medical school is one of WUSTL's more noteworthy components.  The medical campus section should definitely be expanded.  Suggestions? --Lmbstl 05:04, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Medical Campus

message: This seems sufficient.  Does it tell the whole story? --Lmbstl 05:04, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: West Campus

message: The main article Tyson Research Area definitely can be expanded.  This section should then included a decent summary.  I will work on expanding the Tyson Research Area article. --Lmbstl 05:04, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Tyson Research Area

message: This section is not a pleasure to read.  It has too many factoids.  Am I the only person who starts to tune out when reading it?  Can we work to distill relevant information?  Do we need to talk so much about rankings?  Do we need to list the Deans of every school? --Lmbstl 05:04, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps focusing on the impacts the schools and academic divisions have on the respective communities, and their historical accomplishments, it seems that is what the other university articles do, however maybe the Washington university article should distinguish itself. Astuishin 22:27, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Academics Section

message: This should be a good summary of the article Student Life at Washington University in St. Louis.  I think it reads pretty well.  The "Athletics" and "traditions" section could be expanded.  I know WUSTL has more traditions than are listed. --Lmbstl 05:04, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Student Life section

message: This section looks slim.  What can we do to improve it? --Lmbstl 05:04, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ropcat and I have been trying to expand this article a little bit more however I can work on a good main article summary. Astuishin 22:31, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Notable Washington University People

message: I mention this section because many things are not cited.  The Cornell and Duke University pages are loaded with citations.  The material is out htere-- we have to make sure the WUSTL series is credible. --Lmbstl 05:04, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: References

message: I think this is important to mention because the upcoming Olympics will generate possible interest in past Olympic venues.  Any thoughts on this?  Any additions to the Francis Field article? --Lmbstl 05:04, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, perhaps a student or some one who lives close to campus get a picture from the university archives, and research the history of Francis. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Astuishin (talk • contribs) 22:14, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I added an image of Francis Field gates and expanded the article a bit, but I know a lot more info is available.  --Lmbstl 15:04, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Cerated a template box for the field, for now I have been getting most of my inspiration from the cornell, uchicago, and harvard pages however am going to look at some other sources. - thank you  Astuishin 13:13, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm put a request for a new picture of Francis Field on the project page, I feel that the current pic while quite good, does not suite the page; the sunsetting on the main Washington U sports complex, might send a negative subconscious message no the state of Washington U sports. - thank you  Astuishin 23:41, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The image that appears is the only one available right now.  I think it should be included in the article, although perhaps as a secondary image.  And, the state of WUSTL sports is pretty dismal-- people don't need a picture to spell that out. ;)  --Lmbstl 08:47, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think "dismal" is a pretty unfair term - both the mens' and womens' basketball teams won their conference titles this weekend (UAA, D-III).  But Francis and the associated buildings will, obviously, never be Doak Campbell Stadium or Cameron Center. 128.252.34.10 20:34, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I still think the picture should be included as it is quite good, however It should replaced be another picture in the template box, i feel there should be a more comprehensive image in the template, however if I'm not particularity attached to this opinion so if you feel the pic remain I don't mind.- thank you  Astuishin 20:57, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Article for [[Francis Field]]

message: I think this can really help organize our efforts.   The project page is here: Wikipedia:WikiProject Washington University in St. Louis. --Lmbstl 07:47, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Created a WUSTL project page

message: Are the schools colors simply red and green? I believe I read somewhere that the schools colors are really myrtle and maroon. Perhaps this is cretinous of me however, does anyone on this talk page have a source of information on the schools colors? - thank you  Astuishin 13:09, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not at all cretinous.  Please check here:  --Lmbstl 14:25, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah I see, so they are red and green that clears it up. - thank you  Astuishin 05:23, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  School colors 

message: Was Fumihiko Maki ever a faculty member at WUSTL?  I thought I heard mention that he was, but it isn't noted in the WUSTL series.  Does anyone know? --Lmbstl 03:07, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes I believe he was, he joined the faculty in the 1960s and left shortly afterwards for Japan- thank you  Astuishin 05:25, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just an FYI; according to http://www.pritzkerprize.com/maki2.htm he became a prof in 1956 . . . --Lmbstl 11:41, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Was Maki ever a full professor? Also why does Bancham keep removing the logo? is there something that I am not aware of? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Astuishin (talk • contribs) 23:46, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Fumihiko Maki]]

message: Could we use images that have the same background color as the infobox? Ryancarnated 00:30, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What do you mean by images? You don't mean some type of picture? Bancham 04:27, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, the seal and the shield and what not have white backgrounds, but the infobox has a non-white background, so you can see the white background of the images poking through. Check out Harvard, their shield/seal or whatever has the same color background as the infobox, and it looks better. I'm suggesting we change the background colors of the images of the shield and seal and whatever else go in the infobox to the same background color as the infobox, or alternatively make them transparent. Ryancarnated 01:12, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This most likely has to do with the format of the image.  I happen to think that beggers shouldn;t be choosers-- let's get permission to use these images first. --Lmbstl 11:00, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: WUSTL image colors

message: Why is there a section specifically for these people?  Shouldn't that be included in the Notable Washington University alumni article instead?  If there is no objection, I will remove it soon.  Se2131 05:13, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Before we remove it, we should decide if it goes on its own page or if it gets merged into the Notable Alumni page.  I was preparing to move it to its own article, using a table to list the Nobel Laureates and their affiliation to the University.  Thoughts?  --Lmbstl 07:13, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There appears to be no need to have this list on the main Washington U page. It could be moved to its own page or perhaps a article about the Notable faculty of Washington University could be cerated.- thank you  Astuishin 01:08, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe we could do a "scratch list" of notable faculty before making the article?  Please see below!  --Lmbstl 02:16, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes that would not be to difficult cerate a daughter article, the University of Michigan has a good faculty page we could draw from. There all ready a number of reputable faculty members listed on the Main page. On the main page, however, would we maintain a Washington University People page? - thank you  Astuishin 15:13, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nobel Laureates Section?  Is it necessary 

message: There are already articles for individuls who are noteworthy WUSTL faculty , so it most likely will end up being a list/aggregation instead of an actual article.  I had started making the following table for 2 reasons:  to include in a WUSTL-specific article, and to include in the article Nobel Prize laureates by university affiliation‎.  The table looks like this:
Number of affiliations	Institution	Alumna/Alumnus	Attendee or researcher	Faculty before or at the time of award	Faculty after award
22                    	WUSTL      	
*Edwin G. Krebs
*Earl Wilbur Sutherland Jr.
*Daniel Nathans	
*Stanley Cohen       	
*Gerty Cori
*Carl Ferdinand Cori
*Arthur Compton
*Joseph Erlanger 
*Robert F. Furchgott
*Alfred Hershey
*Arthur Kornberg
*Rita Levi-Montalcini
*Douglass North*	
Notes
# An affiliate is a Nobel laureate who can be classified as attendee, graduate, researcher or faculty at Washington University in St. Louis. Laureates who qualify for several categories are only counted once. 
# The academic entity or any affiliated institution (for example: Hoover Institute and Stanford).
# A laureate who received a degree from Washington University in St. Louis.
# A aureate who attended at least one course or conducted research at the WUSTL, but did not receive a degree from it.
# A laureate who served on the faculty of WUSTL before or during the reception of the Prize.
# A laureate who served on the faculty of WUSTL only after receiving the Prize.
Clearly it isn't finished.  I don't have info on all 22 affiliations reported by WUSTL.  Specifically, I don't know how the following are classified:
*Christian de Duve
*Luis Federico Leloir
*Severo Ochoa
*Hamilton O. Smith
*George Davis Snell
Thoughts?  Help?  Criticisms? --Lmbstl 02:16, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: WUSTL faculty page and Nobel list

message: Seriously, this is annoying. Hasn't it been established that we are in fair use to use the shield as long as the copyright is stated on its info page? Putting words on top of it is annoying, obtrusive and violates our right to use an unobstructed image as long as we acknowledge the owner. Having to revert the picture back daily makes this seem like a game of cat & mouse and tramps on Wikipedia's standing as an independent resource, not a university sanctioned press guide. Is there a way to lock the image in? caz | speak 23:43, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Shield Reversion