Talk:HC CSKA Moscow

message: Someone started an article on the Super Series between the Soviet and NHL teams, but they didn't get far.  Please help, especially with 1975-76 USSR Red Army ice hockey tour of North America, which involved the famous Red Army - Canadiens match-up.  Thanks. Kevlar67 05:18, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Super Series, '75 vs. Montreal 

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Cska Moscow Logo.gif

message: 79.181.157.44 (who was blocked yesterday for similiar behaviour) & 132.66.161.47; please discuss your changes here first before making them. You must get a consensus. GoodDay (talk) 20:20, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I suggest doing something similar to what's on the Rangers F.C. or Maccabi Tel Aviv B.C. articles:
They have won 32 league titles, which is the most of any hockey club in the world, and 20 European championships, which is also a record.  Patken4 (talk) 23:19, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit wars again? 

message: Djasso tries to push a POV statement that Montreal was the most succesful professional club ever. Thats a POV, because he by that says CSKA was amature. During the Soviet era all clubs were considered amature as part of the idiology propoganda that "simple men" can beat the whole world. Today those clubs are considered professional, and even it's ex-players ednit they were professionals doing only sport as their job.
I propose to talk only about number of titles and leave the amature-proffesional side apart. For the NPOV lets keep the question who was greater CSKA or montreal open, or not touch it at all, without taking the fact Djasso is a Montreal fan as an argument.
::In disagreement; and yes I'm a Habs fan (saving you the trouble of pointing that out). GoodDay (talk) 18:49, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Red Army was considered amateur at the time, and competed as amateurs.  Later judgments of the true nature of the team does not change historical fact.  Resolute 19:14, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

text: An exatirated question. Did the Jewish doctors really want to kill Stalin? What?! No? But then they decided that they had! So what if later is was changed? "Later judgments of the true nature of the team does not change historical fact." Thats the whole point that CSKA trained professionaly, and havent worked anywere but in that. So today it's widely agreed that they were professional, and that is the historical fact. Look, it's disputed, and i dont try tp push a point, thats why i proposed, for the NPOV, to look at titles and results, thats it. The dude with the Red Wings (talk) 20:21, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Concensus proposal

message: What is wrong with my proposal?  As the statements reads now, it has many weasel words...
They have won 32 league titles, which is the most of any hockey club in the world, and 20 European championships, which is also a record.  Patken4 (talk) 20:30, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's the professional/amateur thingy, that keeps getting in the way. Howabout, ...one of the most successful teams...; now that's an undisputed statement. GoodDay (talk) 20:33, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think it makes much difference.  Rangers F.C. technically won one title as an amateur club in 1891, but there is no differentiation between professional and amateur in the number of league titles the club won.  If you want to add in "top level" between any and hockey in my proposal, it would still work.  Patken4 (talk) 20:41, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The difference is that ALL of CKSAs championships came while they were amateur, they have won non since becoming professional so I don't really see why you can't say montreal has won the most professional and cksa has won the most amateur. To me that seems the least pov way to say it and show that both are the best in the world at their perspective levels. -Djsasso (talk) 22:53, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You were already explained so many times, but you chose to ignore it. Instead of searching for a concensus, you try to make a piont. Let me ask you a question. Did the Jewish doctors really want to kill Stalin? What?! No? But then they decided that they had! So what if later is was changed? "Later judgments of the true nature of the team does not change historical fact." Thats the whole point that CSKA trained professionaly, and havent worked anywere but in that. So today it's widely agreed that they were professional, and that is the historical fact. Look, it's disputed, and i dont try tp push a point, thats why i proposed, for the NPOV, to look at titles and results, thats it. In the Dream-Team of the IIHF 4 players were from CSKA. You want to tell me they were amatures? They admited, the club admited they were all professional. While you try to make a point people here try to get a concensus. You were already asked, avoid weasel words. Look, both at the Montreal article and here it's decided will say where they won how much, and thats it. All those stupid phrases "best amature/professional club in the world", whatever, out. The dude with the Red Wings (talk) 18:45, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you misunderstand what weasel words are. Because it was your version that was using weasel words. My version was stripping them out. The sentence itself shouldn't even be there is was some of the others were saying, no matter what version you use. And that I have no problem with. -Djsasso (talk) 16:18, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I havent used weasel words. Do you know what it is? What i said, and it was supported in both articles, lets delete all those stupid sentences of best, not best, professional, bot professional... whatever. Let the throphies of the club speak for themselves. The dude with the Red Wings (talk) 17:35, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You used the words. "One of the best, if not the best" Those are weasel words. That's what I objected to using. -Djsasso (talk) 17:38, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Actualy that was an attemp to answer what you did in Montreal. What i did here was NPOV because i left in that sentence the option for the person to decide if they were the best or one of the best, that was nutral, unlike what you did in Montreal, and that was done to show you the coin has to sides. Once it was agreed in the Montreal article to get rid of the sentence i opposed to, i came here and did what was decided in the Montreal article here. Everything ended fair. The dude with the Red Wings (talk) 17:48, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

text: I proposed to ignore the professional/amature thing. It's so diputed. The amature thing was a propoganda. In real life they were professional, and after the collapse of the USSR both the club and it's old players admited it. In Russia as i know they still joke about it. I think we should see what is decided in a similar dispute in the Montreal Canadiens article. It looks, yet early to talk, it will be pointed in what league they won how much, and where it places them reletively to others. If that eventualy will be decided there, we could do the same here and then we will have something like: "CSKA won the Soviet championship more then any other team, and won the European Cup more then any other team". Mabe the Series with NHL clubs could be mentioned, but i dont see how it enters the formulation. The dude with the Red Wings (talk) 21:02, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: A little playing: HC CSKA is one of the most, if not the most, successful clubs in history, having won more local championship and European cups then any other team in history. The part on italic is the part we could delete, the bold part to keep. Again, it all depends if Montreal delete s similar part we puted in the italic script from their article, but if the do, i think it's an option. The dude with the Red Wings (talk) 21:24, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Note that in the "History" section, under the "A Russian hockey powerhouse" section, the first sentence states "CSKA is one of the most successful teams in the history of sport." To be consistent, perhaps this sentence should be removed as well? Isaac Lin (talk) 21:55, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Did it. The dude with the Red Wings (talk) 15:53, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: New proposal

message: I'm just looking for help from a Russian speaker.  Is 'CSKA' pronounced like (as similar as I can write it) "Tseska" or "Cheska?"  It is more a question of how the 'C' is pronounced than any thing else.  Thanks for the help, it could be a useful add since I think most North Americans just pronounce it by saying the English letters (see-ess-kay-Ay) rather than how it should be pronounced.  Thanks again.  Ezc 195 (talk) 23:15, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The letter Ц. It's like, tse. The e in the end of the tse is like the e in the end of the Englsih word the. Say it fast as a one word. Tse S (like the English S) KA (like the name Karlo). Hope I've helped. Kostan1 (talk) 10:52, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronounciation of 'CSKA'