Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dinosaurs/Archive 2

message: See Talk:List of dinosaurs. This would be excellent advertising for this project, too! Soo 15:35, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good idea. Spawn Man 00:29, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Making List of dinosaurs into a featured list 

message: In addition to featured articles and lists, there's also a process for nominating worthwhile articles that aren't quite up to the FA criteria Wikipedia:Good articles. It's still a fairly high standard, but it may be useful. -Pat | 68.84.34.154 15:58, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good idea...!! By the way why dont you sign up... it'll be easier for all of us to communicate with you... :-D Jayant,17 Years, India • contribs 18:14, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, get an ip adress, Pat is it?! Only wierdos & serial killers who don't want to be traced fully use an anonymous adress..... :). Spawn Man 08:57, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Registered users are actually more anonymous. -Pat | 68.84.34.154 20:49, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good articles 

message: After being a bit "ticked", (more like a worse cussing word!), off about the lack of participants for the "Big 20", I've come up with a better idea. What about a collaboration? It could be a fourtnightly or monthly picked one, as with the lack of members, I doubt a weekly one would get far. It would give us a bigger exposure & get the articles you want fixed(obviously not the "Big 20" you @#$^%..:).....). I would of course have to set this all up with the designer, who has set up things like that before. Please place yay or nay comments below, unless you don't feel "inclined" (much like the "Big 20")..... Spawn Man 23:49, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Collaboration? 

message: If there is no disagreement here, I would like to create a "Diplodocoids" category within "Sauropods". There are quite a lot of them now, and it is sort of the counterbalance to the equally large "Titanosaurs". This category would include all rebbachisaurids, dicraeosaurids, and diplodocids, as well as things that seem somewhere in between such as Amazonsaurus and Suuwassea which I am far too lazy to check the spelling of at this point in time. :) Sheep81 04:30, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I see no real problem with it: the Theropods in particular are going to have quite a few categories, so there's no reason we can't divide up larger Sauropod groups. As long as we're not categorizing tiny (often disputed) groups, it's sound. Diplodocoids are clearly a real division. The only problem may be the wording. Didn't Dinoguy just change the name of some cats from -ids and -oids to -saurs?--Firsfron 07:33, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We just wanted larger categories, so we changed some categories that were the names of families to the names of superfamilies and I think maybe an infraorder... I don't know, those terms are pretty arbitrary. Basically the point is to use larger taxonomic groups. Diplodocoidea is the largest group that only includes the above-mentioned dinosaurs, I think. I'll check on that, but I'm pretty sure. Sheep81 10:44, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is. You can always check at List_of_dinosaur_classifications. But what I mean is: If we're using categories such as "Stegosaurs" and "Ankylosaurs" instead of "Stegosaurids" and "Ankylosaurids", shouldn't we use "Diplodocids" instead of "Diplodocoidea", as a way of using less formalized naming in categories? Just a thought.--Firsfron 17:14, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As I understand it, we aren't using "ankylosaurs" instead of "ankylosaurids" because it is less formal, but because it is more inclusive. "Ankylosaurs" refers to all of Ankylosauria (Nodosauridae + Ankylosauridae), while "ankylosaurids" refers only to the family Ankylosauridae. Similarly, "diplodocoids" refers to all of Diplodocoidea (Rebacchisauridae + Dicraeosauridae + Diplodocidae), while "diplodocids" (to use your example) would only refer to the family Diplodocidae. I think the idea is to use the largest group that is still informative so that we can fit the most dinosaurs into the minimum number of informative categories. Also, I agree that "diplodocoids" is kind of a weird name, but I don't know a better way to informalize the name Diplodocoidea. Please correct me if I am wrong about any of the above. Sheep81 10:27, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "Diplodocoids". The correct vernacular of Ankylosauria is "ankylosaurian", and "ankylosaur" technically only refers to species within the genera Ankylosaurus. A decent list of the proper naming is here (though it doesn't include super-families). Obviously, we shouldn't go out and rename "dinosaur" to "Dinosauria", and "titanosaur" is never actually used to refer to the genera, but we might want to move some of them to the more formal vernacular. The articles are sometimes inconsistent; both abelisaurs and Abelisauridae claim to be articles on the abelisaurid family (though the taxobox at "abelisaur" indicates super-family.) -Pat | 68.84.34.154 11:45, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Diplodocoid category

message: Dinosaur Efraasia has been added to the Main Page as a DYK. My thanks to 68.84 for the assistance. I'm hoping this raises some awareness for the project: we're on the main page, guys! :)--Firsfron 07:37, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Way to go everyone!!!!!!!!! :-D......Jayant,17 Years, India • contribs 10:34, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice. I like the way this project is coming together recently, especially since we're doing it with a minimum of infighting as seen in other projects. Way to go everyone! Sheep81 10:47, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As we come to more obscure dinosaurs, though, I do fear it may lead to greater differences of opinion, because of the differing views of the paleontological community. Sure, it's easy to describe Archaeopteryx as a dinosaur, because the majority of scientists support it; but when we get to lesser-known dinosaurs, which have only been studied by a handful of researchers with varying opinions... and not all match the George O. list, and that list may differ from the online cladogram we were originally using. That's one of my main concerns...--Firsfron 17:07, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Efraasia

message: Is the a good picture of dinosaur bones, like a skeleton somewhere? --HappyCamper 21:15, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I dunno about whole skeletons, maybe someone else has a link for that. However, a lot of terminology and SOME pictures are available at The Dinosauria Online, in the anatomy section. Sheep81 03:03, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

text: It's an undignified position, but you can see a brachiosaur/giraffititan skeleton at the Humboldt Museum here. It's relatively complete (though technically a chimera). Unlike a lot of skeletons on display, it's not made of plaster casts. -Pat | 68.84.34.154 11:51, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bones 

message: What would be really neat is if we made a little clickable family tree of major dinosaur groups, and put that as a template which appears on the bottom of every dinosuar page. Good idea? Bad idea? --HappyCamper 03:17, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A tree would take up a lot of room, but maybe something like the mammal box at the bottom of Xenarthra would be cool. We could list Order: Major infraorders/subgroups (but only on super-generic taxon pages, imo).A link could be included to Dinosaur classification, which is basically a clickable family tree.Dinoguy2 14:15, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tree 

message: The best way for someone to learn about dinosaurs is to consult the primary literature. Unfortunately that usually requires you to know some terminology. Another problem is access. Finding a copy of a journal can be difficult, and making copies can really add up. Subscriptions are usually obscenely expensive because most of these journals have pretty low circulation. So how do you get a hold of technical papers?
Most scientific journals now offer PDFs of their articles online. Unfortunately, you are usually required to subscribe to the journal, pay a bunch of money, or go to a library that subscribes to  the journal in order to access them. If you do live near a major university, it is not a bad idea to find out what journals they subscribe to and then spend a few hours in their library downloading PDF files and emailing them to yourself... it's a lot cheaper than making copies. However, if you don't have that kind of time or don't live near a major library, there are still a lot of places to find papers online for free, which some of you may already know about. But I'll list some of the ones I know about here:
===Journals===
*The American Museum of Natural History Digital Library provides free PDF copies of all four of their major publications. They are working to have every single issue from beginning to end. Truly amazing. Many new dinosaurs have been reported in American Museum Novitates in particular.
*The Polish journal Acta Paleontologica Polonica also provides free PDF access to all issues dating back to 1997 on their website. Although the journal is Polish, all articles are in English.
*The Revista Geologica de Chile has some articles online as well, although they are in HTML format as far as I can tell. Not too many dinosaur papers in this one, although here is the description of Rinconsaurus.
===Individual Researchers===
*Ken Carpenter of the DMNS has most of his papers online at his webpage. Some are just PDFs of photocopies so quality is not that great sometimes, and they are not searchable by text, but it's definitely better than nothing.
*Sunny Hwang of the AMNH has several theropod papers linked on her online CV. Just a few though.
===Other Sites===
*This site has the Journal of Paleontology and Paleobiology archived online, but from what I can tell it is text-only, no images, and the articles are not in PDF format, which means you can't see page numbers, for one thing.
*This site has free PDFs of some recent issues of a lot of journals. Right now they only have the most recent issue of Ameghiniana, a very important journal from Argentina, but hopefully in the future they will add more.
*Not all articles are in English so that's why The Polyglot Paleontologist is so useful. Free online English translations of many papers in Spanish, Chinese, Russian and French are available, many in PDF format. However, sometimes there are no images, unfortunately, and you can't see the original page numbers.
I'm sure other people know of other places to get articles. Searching for "pdf" on the Archives of the Dinosaur Mailing List might nab you some more. I (Sheep) also have a lot of 1996-and-later PDFs on my hard drive, most of which are not freely available online, so if you have any requests, ask on my talk page and I will see if I have what you want. Maybe I can put up a list. Sheep81 04:06, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Free papers online

message: *This site has the Journal of Paleontology and Paleobiology archived online, but from what I can tell it is text-only, no images, and the articles are not in PDF format, which means you can't see page numbers, for one thing.
*This site has free PDFs of some recent issues of a lot of journals. Right now they only have the most recent issue of Ameghiniana, a very important journal from Argentina, but hopefully in the future they will add more.
*Not all articles are in English so that's why The Polyglot Paleontologist is so useful. Free online English translations of many papers in Spanish, Chinese, Russian and French are available, many in PDF format. However, sometimes there are no images, unfortunately, and you can't see the original page numbers.
I'm sure other people know of other places to get articles. Searching for "pdf" on the Archives of the Dinosaur Mailing List might nab you some more. I (Sheep) also have a lot of 1996-and-later PDFs on my hard drive, most of which are not freely available online, so if you have any requests, ask on my talk page and I will see if I have what you want. Maybe I can put up a list. Sheep81 04:06, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Other Sites

message: The article now exists. Please help develop it! References and more info all gratefully received. Soo 19:59, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added a sentence, and will add more as I think about it, Soo.--Firsfron 04:55, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: T-rex in popular culture

message: I keep coming up with names that are not on the list of dinosaurs. Since Sheep81 has just filtered out a lot of the names, I wonder if it's wise to add these new ones at all. The work he's done has greatly improved the list, IMO, and I'd hate for us to have to refilter everything.
However, there are many more. Possibly hundreds. At least, I've found enough that it makes me think there may be hundreds more. What do you all think?--Firsfron 04:45, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe put them on the talk page and we can decide there? Sheep81 05:12, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Alright, done. --Firsfron 09:09, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Additional dinosaurs

message: It seems like one major category we're missing is Coelurosaurs. I understand the desire to keep seperate family-level cats for notable groups like dromaeosaurs and tyrannosaurs, but we also have a cat for troodontids, and no cat for things like ornithomimosaurs, oviraptorosaurs, therizinosaurs, etc. Maybe we should have an infraorder level cat for coelurosaurs, and then separate cats for major sub-groups like these?Dinoguy2 19:21, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'm surprised there's no cat yet for Therizinosaurs. Segnosaur (article) redirects to Therizinosaur (article), so the category should probably also be Category:Therizinosaurs, for the sake of simplicity. I do want to note the other possible name for the category, because many sources do use that name. Maybe we can at least note that in the category itself. As far as Coelurosaurs: of course there should be a cat for them, at least for basal members that don't easily fit into any cat, or for later members of questionable higher clades.--Firsfron 20:39, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Alright, I've added the Therizinosaur category, and placed known species in it. On a completely unrelated note, I also fixed up the Pachycephalosaur category, while I was at it. There were some genera in cat:Pachycephalosaurs and some in cat:Pachycephalosaurids (and, obviously, some in no category at all). They've all been moved into one home at cat:Pachycephalosaurs (which was the most populated category: less work that way).--Firsfron 22:31, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Should we nest the coelurosaur clades inside a coelurosaur category, or leave them all within Theropods?Dinoguy2 00:11, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I vote for nesting coelurosaur clades inside a coelurosaur category, but I don't know how Sheep (and others) feel. To me, it just makes sense: the conceptual categories would eventually resemble a rough cladogram.--Firsfron 00:26, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

text:  For the record, my vote is also for nesting coelurosaurs. I'll start filling categories for the major subclades, though I think I'll refrain from creating a Coelurosauria cat until a few more people weigh in.Dinoguy2 00:33, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Well the troodont cat was already there when I started nesting them, and I didn't really feel comfortable DELETING a category and putting animals in a less informative category. But at the same time I was a bit skeptical about adding a cat for every coelurosaur subclade just because we don't do the same with ornithischian or sauropod clades. I've always felt there was a pretty heavy bias towards theropods in coverage. But at the same time, they ARE very diverse in form, as opposed to say, ornithopods which are pretty superficially similar. I'll go with whatever you decide and be happy with it. Only thing is that I would prefer to use superfamily-type taxa instead of families. So... therizinosaurs, tyrannosaurs, dromaeosaurs, which it looks like you have already done. One category I do kind of object to is "herrerasaurs," which really at this point only includes Herrerasaurus and Staurikosaurus... mayyyybe Chindesaurus. The rest of the taxa in the category at this time are either definitely not herrerasaurs (Alwalkeria), probably chimeric ("Aliwalia"), or possibly not even dinosaurian (Spondylosoma). I think Herrerasauridae has too small of a membership to deserve its own category. Also a lot of paleontologists don't even think herrerasaurs are dinosaurs, let alone saurischians or theropods. So it doesn't really fit within our nesting scheme, as opposed to all of our other cats, which seem perfectly stable where they are. These animals would probably be best just placed under "Saurischians" or maybe "Dinosaurs". Sheep81 20:03, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I only added a herrerasaur cat because it's an "infraorder", which sems to be the defining aspect of the other major cats (carnosaurs, coelurosaurs, ceratosaurs). I don't have any objection to removing them to Saurischia, however. I wouldn't reccomend putting any genera under Dinosaur because, well first it mainly contains non-taxon articles, and also because if something is not sauriscian or ornithiscian it must be non-dinosaurian by definition.Dinoguy2 20:25, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: True, if it is a dinosaur, then by definition it MUST belong to either order, since Dinosauria is a node-based taxon (Saurischia + Ornithischia). But that doesn't mean we actually which one it is, since something with limited material could show dinosaur synapomorphies but not preserve elements that identify it to either order. In that case the best you could do would be to put it in "Dinosaurs". I personally think "herrerasaurs" are basal saurischians after Langer (2004), but that is not exactly NPOV. I don't mind Category:Herrerasaurs too much as long as it has actual herrerasaurs under it, but as for the rest, put them under Saurischia, and then when/if I or anyone else actually gets around to writing good articles for some of these genera, we can just note the uncertainty in the article. Sheep81 21:12, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds good. I was cleaning up the Dinosaur cat and there are a few genera in there which can't be placed safely in either order. As for the herrerasaurs, I'd just get rid of that category all together if removing the dubious taxa, since as you said, two or three species don't warrent a category. Any place we put herrerasaurs will be somewhat NPOV, and since some place them as non-dinosaurs and some place them as theropods, I think Saurischia is a nice "average" spot for them.Dinoguy2 21:36, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Cool. Who knows, maybe there will be an explosion of herrerasaurs announced this year and we will have to add the category back. :) Sheep81 21:42, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Alright, just how many decently-described dinosaurs does it take to qualify for a category? --Firsfron 21:58, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I want to say 15 or 20, but looking through the categories, this would disqualify things like Stegosaurs and Pachycephalosaurs. It would disqualify Oviraptorosaurs as that section stands now, but there are enough redlinked oviraptors to bump that up past 20. This is probably the case for most groups that fall short, except for family level groups like Troodontids and spinosaurids (IMHO, Troodontids should probably be dumped back into coelurosaurs, and Spinosaurids should either be dumped into Theropods, or create a Megalosaurs category).Dinoguy2 22:57, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, I just moved a few Stegosaurs from the generic Thyreophoran category into the Stegosaur category, and there are still plenty of red Stegosaur genera on the list, so there will certainly be enough (more than 15) for a category. Pachycephalosaurs already have 16 genera in the category. --Firsfron 23:57, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

text: And now I've moved out all but 5 of the Thyreophorans into their respective Ankylo- or Stegosaur categories. The 5 remaining are all basal Thyreophorans (Scelidosaur-types) or indeterminate. I'm sure more will be added later.--Firsfron 00:42, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

text: I was using http://personal2.stthomas.edu/jstweet/iguanodontia.htm as a basis for the Iguanodonts. Ouranosaurus, Altirhinus, Eolambia, Fukuisaurus, Protohadros, Probactrosaurus, Nanyangosaurus, and Shuangmiaosaurus are listed on that page as advanced Iguanodonts leading toward the Hadrosauridae. But I guess they could easily be moved to the Hadrosaur category, though they're awfully close to Iguanodon. "Hadrosauroidea:  Many of these basal hadrosauroids were once classified as iguanodontids, but while they are similar to Iguanodon, they are not in the same family; rather, they are in the line leading to hadrosaurids."--Firsfron 00:20, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I like them where they are right now... it just doesn't "seem" right to list something like Altirhinus as a hadrosaur. Not very scientific, I know. Sheep81 01:28, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But,  does list all those species under the Hadrosauroidea. If we keep them in cat:Iguanodonts, the hadrosaur cat should really be changed from Hadrosaurs to Hadrosaurids.Dinoguy2 19:49, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I am fine with whatever you decide. Change it to Hadrosaurids (which kind of isolates the "duckbills" that most people think of when they think of hadrosaurs) or put basal hadrosauroids in the cat (which is more consistent with other cats). Either way has good and bad points. What is the definition of Hadrosauroidea these days anyway? Sheep81 15:51, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Taxon Search lists it as (Parasaurolophus > Iguanodon), which is pretty consistant with what I've seen used elsewhere, though I'm no expert on ornthischian phylogony. Don't ask me why it was defined this way, as that definition basically encompasses all of the traditional Iguanodontidae except for Iguanodon itself.Dinoguy2 16:55, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: EEP. That is a lot of animals now (Ouranosaurus, Altirhinus, Eolambia, Protohadros, Prosaurolophus, Equijubus, et cetera). Hm. Sheep81 09:58, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I meant Probactrosaurus, not Prosaurolophus. Sheep81 09:59, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Categories 

message: Looking for some opinions regarding the categorization of hadrosauroids. It looks like all basal members of this superfamily are categorized as iguanodontids, which is inconsistant with parallel categories (cat Tyrannosaurs includes all tyrannosauroids, not just tyrannosaurids). Move basal hadrosauroids into the Hadrosaurs category, or no?Dinoguy2 22:14, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was using http://personal2.stthomas.edu/jstweet/iguanodontia.htm as a basis for the Iguanodonts. Ouranosaurus, Altirhinus, Eolambia, Fukuisaurus, Protohadros, Probactrosaurus, Nanyangosaurus, and Shuangmiaosaurus are listed on that page as advanced Iguanodonts leading toward the Hadrosauridae. But I guess they could easily be moved to the Hadrosaur category, though they're awfully close to Iguanodon. "Hadrosauroidea:  Many of these basal hadrosauroids were once classified as iguanodontids, but while they are similar to Iguanodon, they are not in the same family; rather, they are in the line leading to hadrosaurids."--Firsfron 00:20, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I like them where they are right now... it just doesn't "seem" right to list something like Altirhinus as a hadrosaur. Not very scientific, I know. Sheep81 01:28, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But,  does list all those species under the Hadrosauroidea. If we keep them in cat:Iguanodonts, the hadrosaur cat should really be changed from Hadrosaurs to Hadrosaurids.Dinoguy2 19:49, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I am fine with whatever you decide. Change it to Hadrosaurids (which kind of isolates the "duckbills" that most people think of when they think of hadrosaurs) or put basal hadrosauroids in the cat (which is more consistent with other cats). Either way has good and bad points. What is the definition of Hadrosauroidea these days anyway? Sheep81 15:51, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Taxon Search lists it as (Parasaurolophus > Iguanodon), which is pretty consistant with what I've seen used elsewhere, though I'm no expert on ornthischian phylogony. Don't ask me why it was defined this way, as that definition basically encompasses all of the traditional Iguanodontidae except for Iguanodon itself.Dinoguy2 16:55, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: EEP. That is a lot of animals now (Ouranosaurus, Altirhinus, Eolambia, Protohadros, Prosaurolophus, Equijubus, et cetera). Hm. Sheep81 09:58, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I meant Probactrosaurus, not Prosaurolophus. Sheep81 09:59, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Hadrosaurids/oids

message: We currently have a list of missing dinosaur articles. The problem with this list is that a large number of these are nomina dubia. In many cases, there really won't be much more to say than "This is a junior synonym of some other genus" or "This is a dubious tooth taxon". I'm considering making a List of dubious dinosaur genera and redirecting all of the dubious taxa to that page. This page could briefly explain why each such name was considered dubious, as well as who proposed it and when. Does anyone else have any comments on this? <TT>Crotalus horridus <SMALL>(TALK • CONTRIBS)</SMALL></TT> 01:44, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: One problem I forsee with that plan is that nomen dubium is very often subjective. Personally, I think Protoavis is absolute chimeric junk that certainly qualifies as nomen dubium, but the list we're using makes no such annotation. IMO, the word "dubious" is completely subjective, and what one researcher sees as perfectly valid may seem like a borderline hoax to another. Also, most of the junior synonyms have already been directed to their respective main articles. It would be inconsistant (and confusing to readers)to redirect some to a genera article, while others would direct to the nomen dubium page.--Firsfron 03:47, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ETA: at the current rate we're going, all the links will be blue in a few weeks anyway. Less than a month ago, there were still 500 missing dinosaurs. Now it's 200something.  It's true that a lot of these articles could use expanding, but there's quite a bit to say, even about most nomina dubia.--Firsfron 03:55, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Handling of dubious dinosaur genera

message: Hello. I'm a member of the Version 1.0 Editorial Team, which is looking to identify quality articles in Wikipedia for future publication on CD or paper. We recently began assessing articles using these criteria, and we are are asking for your help. As you are most aware of the issues surrounding your focus area, we are wondering if you could provide us with a list of the articles that fall within the scope of your WikiProject, and that are either featured, A-class, B-class, or Good articles, with no POV or copyright problems. Do you have any recommendations? If you do, please post your suggestions at the listing of all active Science WikiProjects, and if you have any questions, ask me in the Work Via WikiProjects talk page or directly in my talk page. Thanks a lot! Titoxd(?!? - help us) 06:59, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team|Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team]] cooperation