Talk:Jello Biafra/Archive 1

message: This article states "Their wedding was conducted by Flipper vocalist/bassist Bruce Loose (who had paid to join the Universal Life Church as a minister just to conduct the ceremony)..." Becoming a minister (i.e. ordaining) in the Universal Life Church is free (see its article) so he probably paid $5 to get the ID-sized certificate laminated with Church gold seal. Ewlyahoocom 17:06, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ordination is free 

message: Do we have a source for the claim that Biafra mistreated his wife? -- LGagnon 21:13, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I never heard anything about mistreatment. I always presumed that their marriage fell apart because of the Frankenchrist trial.  Given that she ran off with Frank Discussion, I have to question her mental state though. -- Cjmarsicano 05:14, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Marriage

message: A paragraph reads - Biafra was born in Boulder, Colorado, USA to parents Stanley and Virginia Boucher. Biafra developed an interest in international politics early on, which his parents encouraged him to learn more about.  - and it stops right there.  I'm not sure what to do with that.  sidenote: ive seen him in concert, and he said that he used to visit a bar where Jon Stewart bartended.  One of the odd jobs that Jon did after college was bartend at "Franklin Corner Tavern" in Trenton, NJ.  He annouced it in Philadelphia, so this makes more sense. --Psycho78m 02:23, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Is your problem that it ends with a preposition? I don't think we have a rule against that, but if you like, you could reword the last phrase as "about which his parents encouraged him to learn more." I think the current wording is more colloquial, though, which fits the topic. -- Jmabel | Talk 23:12, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  What goes here? 

message: Shouldn't this appear earlier in the Bio section? It's supposed to be in chronological order. -- LGagnon 21:21, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: To quote Rollins, don't think about it, do it. --Cjmarsicano 21:55, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Offspring info

message: The people who attacked jello at 924 gilman street were not skinheads, they were actually crusties. It's a group of folks who don't like to bathe or change their clothing all that often, hence the name crusties. I know they were crusties that attacked him because i was working security that night at the club. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.161.15.192 (talk • contribs) 21 Dec 2005.
: I reverted you before I saw this. Next time you make a change that you explain on the talk page, put "see talk" as part of the edit summary. 
: Since we have no way to verify that you were working security, etc., is there somewhere we can find this in a citable source (a newspaper story, Maximum Rocknroll, etc.)? Meanwhile, I'll change the article to just not say who the attackers were. -- Jmabel | Talk 08:00, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. I'll try for MRR and hope they've got this, because as discussed at Wikipedia:Reliable sources we really can't fall back to unpublished eyewitness accounts, they are just too easy to fake; we've had some discussions about some sort of "bonding" to get around this, but never came up with a satisfactory way to do it. -- Jmabel | Talk 00:21, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Apparently the only publicly available archive of MRR is at the San Francisco Public Library. Does someone with access to that library want to follow this up and find a citation? -- Jmabel | Talk 02:19, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  i changed the attackers identity 

message: "In June of 1979, Biafra formed the record label Alternative Tentacles with which the Dead Kennedys released their first single, "California Uber Alles". The label was created to allow the band to release albums without having to deal with pressure from major labels to change their music (although the major labels were not willing to sign the band due to their songs being deemed too controversial).[2] All later albums by the band would be released on Alternative Tentacles (with the exception of live albums released after the band's break-up, which were compiled from recordings in the band partnership's vaults, but without Biafra's input or endorsement)."
perhaps should read something like
"In June of 1979, Biafra formed the record label Alternative Tentacles with which the Dead Kennedys released their first single, "California Uber Alles". The label was created to allow the band to release albums without having to deal with pressure from major labels to change their music (although the major labels were not willing to sign the band due to their songs being deemed too controversial).[2] All later albums by the band would be released on Alternative Tentacles (with the exception of live albums released after the band's break-up, which were compiled from recordings in the band partnership's vaults, but without Biafra's input or endorsement and the very first LP "Fresh Fruit for Rotting Vegetables" on the IRS label with which the band had a dissatisfying relationship with.)."
Corresponding to the band's history page at Alternative Tentacles as well as the bands bio page at Allmusic.com.
Thoughts?
:Wasn't it released on Cherry Red first? I remember Jello mentioning this once in an interview, and I know I've seen a Cherry Red-released copy of it before. -- LGagnon 04:48, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes it was. In fact, IRS had changed the cover when they first released it here in the states, but Biafra and the band made them revert to the original cover. --CJ Marsicano 06:26, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  What about the IRS release of Fresh Fruit for Rotting Vegetables? 

message: I thought Jello Biafra's first foray into spoken word was the Witch Trials, which according to a search I just did came out in 1981 on Alternative Tentacles.  But not mentioned in your article or discography.  - ?
:I believe his bio at Alternative Tentacles mentions his earlier spoken word work. -- LGagnon 13:31, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think the Witch Trials EP would count as a spoken word release - it's actually improvised music. Cjmarsicano 13:53, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Witch Trials 

message: I think we should create a new category called "Self Proclaimed Anarchists" and remove him from the "American Anarchist" category.
It is a joke, he was promoting Ralf Nader in 2000. There is no way he can be an anarchist of any type.
:: First, his name "Ralph". Secondly, who are you to impose your rules anyways? Rsm99833
::: this person is not imposing any rules, she/he is only given her/his opinion. period. -Cacuija (my talk) 03:42, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Here that zoom sound? It's a point going over your head. Especially considering you're replying to a discussion post several months old, and is dealing with an article vandal.Rsm99833 05:21, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I don't really care about how old the discussion is and his/her comments don't seem to be vandalic. -Cacuija (my talk) 06:47, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

text: An anarchist who imposes rules? Are you sure you're an anarchist? But seriously, your definition means nothing to this article; Wikipedia isn't based on editors' POVs. -- LGagnon 00:09, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  It was not the original author of the comment who talked about rules, it was the person who replied and you.... and if George Bush once retired makes a confesion that he considered all this life an anarchist. let's put him in the Anarchist Category. -Cacuija (my talk) 03:42, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: A self proclaimed anarchist

message: The article doesn't seem to say that he was an actor. Hence, the categories actor-politicians and American actors seem to be inappropriate. --Gurubrahma 16:31, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There's a filmography and a few mentions of his film work here and there. -- LGagnon 00:09, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cats 

message: I came here to review your article for Good Article status, and it's an impressive piece of work. There are however a few problems:
*You weren't making optimal use of Cite.php, by reusing existing citations where they are repeated. I'm fixing that for you now.
*In my opinion, anything which is potentially controversial or which could be defamotary if not true should have a citation. This and a few other facts are missing citations. I'll add any where an existing source can be reused, others will be tagged with .
*You have narrative problems. His political activites are scattered throughout the article. I think that a reader ought to be able to read the section Political beliefs almost as a standalone piece. For example, the section says "In his address to the Green Party". What address to the Green Party? It's the first time you've mentioned it. The next line says "he chose Death Row inmate Mumia Abu-Jamal (whom anti-death penalty activists believe was wrongly accused of murder) as his vice presidential candidate". You mean he ran for President?! That's the first occurence of "President" in the section. This is enough to fail the article under the criterion "it follows a logical structure". I recommend moving the bulk of the political stuff into that section, leaving a mention that he ran for mayor and president in the bio section, but moving the meat of the issue into the political section. Alternatively, replace bio with "pre-fame", and move everything else into "music" and "politics".
*Some more quotes from reviews - good and bad (assuming he ever got any bad reviews!) - would be nice should you push on to FAC, but I don't think their absence stands in the way of you achieving Good Article status.
I don't want to fail it, however, as it's in general terms a good article. Please fix the issues I have raised, then have another look at Wikipedia:What is a good article? to confirm that you meet the criteria, and let me know on my talk page.  --kingboyk 07:53, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A few notes on what you mentioned:
#Cite.php was used for references while footnotes were put in a separate section. This was for readability, which cite.php does not take into account for footnotes.
#On "controversial" citations, you seem to doubt that Jello is an anarchist. In this case, you are asking for a citation for a well known fact, which doesn't really need to be cited. Besides, it was already cited in the Political beliefs section. The Top of the Pops citation you ask for is poorly explained, so I have no clue what you are looking for there. As for that last bit about him donating his records, that can go as the person who added it never gave a citation for it.
#I'll get to improving the Political beliefs section when I can. Previously, I was just trying not to be redundant by adding in already-mentioned info. I would strongly recommend against naming a section "pre-fame", as that seems POV (when does a life-long underground musician become famous?).
#Usable reviews will be hard to find. AMG has the easiest collection to find, but I'm not so sure we should be redundant with that (we already have one of theirs for "Holiday in Cambodia"). -- LGagnon 14:01, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good Article status 

message: It's interesting to note that User:Dead-kennedys, who recently edited this article to remove certain info that looks bad for East Bay Ray, has been "cleaning up" the East Bay Ray article and has only made contributions to articles involving him and/or the band, making them look more favorable towards EBR. I smell an astroturfer. -- LGagnon 03:32, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've looked over the changes. It's definite astroturfing. I'd change both the Dead Kennedys & East Bay Ray, and throw up a flag. Rsm99833 03:47, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What kind of flag? -- LGagnon 04:03, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A black one, of course! (No, I don't have a concrete suggestion, just a cheap joke.) - Jmabel | Talk 05:29, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: East Bay Ray, is that you?

message: I removed the template requesting citations for Biafra's political beliefs.  They're all pretty much clear on every one of his spoken word albums and in his 2000 Green Presidential remarks. --Cjmarsicano 23:22, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations for political beliefs? 

message: You've given no proof whatsoever that it's POV. It's not POV just because you don't like what Biafra says. What you are trying for is POV, and that is what it will be considered until you can give some proof to the contrary. We're not putting a NPOV warning in the article (especially not in the middle of a paragraph) just because the facts make you look bad. -- LGagnon 19:34, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: You still have no proof, Ray

message: I've removed a small section taht we have had a complaint on the Wikimedia Foundation mail about.  The complaint was not completely clear, so I have written for more informations.  But in the mean time, please don't replace this without full and careful sourcing.  Thanks  -- sannse (talk) 19:17, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair enough; I don't believe that Jello is still claiming anything on the receipt of royalties front, but he has done so as recently as 2002 in a press release... which I can't find in its original location on the website, but it is quoted on a pro-Dead Kennedy news web site.  Not authoritative, I suppose, but it's old news anyhow.  http://www.deadkennedysnews.com/words.htm Xinit 19:46, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

text: That's taken care of; Jello had an article about it on his website, which works fine for a reference about his opinion. -- LGagnon 20:08, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Small removal