Talk:Ivanhoe

message: I removed the part of the article that said that Ivanhoe was a suburb in Melbourne, Australia because that is unimportant information to fellow wikipedians.
I think the summary is too long, It wouldn't be so bad if there was a (very) brief overview in the introduction.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.62.223.238 (talk) 15:11, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion

message: I changed "written in 1819" to "published in 1820" in the introductory sentence.  The first edition scanned by Google Books (see the external links) is dated 1820, and its Dedicatory Epistle is dated November 17, 1817.  I couldn't find any authoritative source stating the work was written in 1819.  Does anyone have better information or citations for the date(s) of authorship and publication?  Mbrubeck (talk) 01:18, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Date of publication/authorship 

message: A criticism section would be a good addition.  I'd lead it off with Mark Twain, who hated Sir Walter Scott's romanticism sufficiently that in Huckleberry Finn he named the wrecked steamboat "Ivanhoe".  He wrote at one point that Scott caused the US Civil War by bestowing upon the South a mistaken sense of chivalry and a determination to fight battles that are against impossible odds.  This was an exaggeration of course, it's Mark Twain after all, but he's probably the leading critic (or criticizer, anyway).  Tempshill 19:58, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism section needed 

message: I've seen at least two books on the English language quote Scott's shrewd observation in the book about naming food animals: the live animals have Anglo-Saxon names because the Saxon peasants raised them; the meat has Norman-French names (mutton, pork) because the Norman nobility ate it.  I thought Scott should get credit in the article for this.
CharlesTheBold 17:28, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  English language 

message: I've altered this section to take account of authoritative but largely overlooked research. An accurate transcription of the brief but important article referred to can be found at --
Mabzilla 13:48, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So, you've cited one (rather poor) newspaper article, and we're supposed to take your word against the established historical opinion? The least you could do is cite Keats-Rohan's actual work. Don't you have journal access of some kind? I'll be removing your little additions until such time as you can find proper citations/support.--96.26.238.33 (talk) 01:50, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: No, I didn't expect you to take my word, but that of Keats-Rohan, Wood and Keys, respected academic, popular historian and archaeological correspondent of a newspaper of note respectively. You are quite right that my references were inadequate, and I will attempt to repair this. In the meantime, perhaps you would care to make a positive contribution; take a closer look at the part of my little addition that you have left in place: "There has been criticism, as unsupported by the evidence of contemporary records, of the enmity of Saxon and Norman represented as persisting in the days of Richard I, which forms the basis of the story." I cited this as a fair representation of the established historical opinion as stated by the "Oxford Companion to English Literature", but did not point out that the only authority quoted by this book is the Victorian scholar A E Freeman, who is strongly criticised elsewhere in the book: "uncontrollable prolixity, an inability to handle MS material and a marked aversion to public libraries". and: "His boorishness inflicted long-term damage on the professorial image".  I could, of course, simply revert to the statement my contribution replaced, which brusquely dismissed Scott's depiction of late 12th century England as "highly anachronistic", a demand for a citation to support this being ignored. I'd be happy if you'd provide something more generally acceptable.--Mabzilla (talk) 12:33, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Historical Accuracy 

message: I think the line about the character Rebecca needs to be altered as it is not entirely clear what it means. Shinigami27 (talk) 15:23, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A comment about Rebecca 

message: I replaced the word "thither" with "there." The words thither and hither are quickly becoming obsolete (having been replaced by "there" and "here," respectively) and, therefore, their use makes the language of this article less intelligible to many readers. ask123 (talk) 16:29, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thither  

message: This is not explained in the article text, nor in the Romanticism article. patsw (talk) 23:21, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Given credit for helping to increase popular interest in the middle ages in 19th century Europe and America 

message: "while Carlyle and Ruskin made similar claims"; Carlyle who? --FinnWiki (talk) 01:06, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who? 

message: Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that :File:J. Cooper, Sr. - Sir Walter Scott - Le Noir Faineant in the Hermit's Cell - Ivanhoe.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on August 15, 2010. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2010-08-15. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page so Wikipedia doesn't look bad. :) Thanks! howcheng  {chat} 22:31, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[:File:J. Cooper, Sr. - Sir Walter Scott - Le Noir Faineant in the Hermit's Cell - Ivanhoe.jpg]] to appear as POTD soon 

message: Shouldn't it be mentioned the large effects the novel has had on American racial Anglo-Saxonism?   I mean it's the main reason that throughout the 19th century Americans of English descent, particularly in the South, referred to themselves as Anglo-Saxon rather than "of English ancestry".  Isn't this worth a mention?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.94.47.16 (talk) 02:27, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Effects on racial anglo-saxon nationalism in America 

message: "Ivanhoe, full name Wilfred of Ivanhoe, is the titular character of the novel Ivanhoe. He is a knight and son of Cedric the Saxon. Ivanhoe, though of a more noble lineage than some of the other characters, represents a middling individual in the medieval class system who is not particularly exceptional in his abilities, as is expected of other quasi historical fictional characters, such as the Greek heros. Critic Georg Lukacs points to middling main characters like Ivanhoe in Sir Walter Scott's other novels as one of the primary reason's Scott's historical novels depart from previous historical works and better explore social and cultural history"
*Did Lukacs read the book? Ivanhoe won the tournament.-Rich Peterson24.7.28.186 (talk) 10:42, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  The concept of a "middle class" did not exist in medieval times, you were either noble or common. Ivanhoe was a noble; the term "middling" refers to his status among the nobility, neither high status, nor lower status nobility. Mediatech492 (talk) 20:37, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: middling ability??

message: Should the article have a 'cultural references' section? In To Kill a Mockingbird Jem reads Ivanhoe to Mrs Duboe. It might be  good idea to include the way in which Ivanhoe is mentioned in other texts. (Galaxycat (talk) 21:14, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Although this might be a good idea, I've seen this type of catch-all, "Ivanhoe as seen in..." sections on other pages grow into huge nightmares where anonymous editors dump in all kinds of garbage. Not against the idea - it'll just need policing. Ckruschke (talk) 13:13, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  To Kill a Mockingbird 

message: "Ivanhoe" in English is similar to "Ekkehard" in German, both names are literally "Ironheart" in modern English. Having an "iron heart" means "to be brave", in German, and possibly, in English as well. Purportedly, those names have been very common in the Middle Ages. 79.227.183.115 (talk) 03:08, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Eh?  In what English dialect did the word for 'iron' have a ‹v›? —Tamfang (talk) 08:37, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

text: Scott took the name from a place mentioned in an old rhyme. "Tring, Wing, and Ivinghoe, Hampden of Hampden did forgo, for striking the Black Prince a blow."  Zacwill (talk) 20:10, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Name "Ivanhoe" 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hi, y'all!!  I'm confused by the placement of the Robin Hood legend as a subsection under "real history and geography" ... Anyhow, I have been working on Robin & Ivanhoe subsections for the Yeoman and Gest article re-writes. (See (Yeoman#A Gest of Robyn Hode, Yeoman#Sir Walter Scott, A Gest of Robyn Hode#Importance to English Romantic literature.) With all the RH & Ivanhoe scholarship out there, I'm rather surprised that so much of the content is lacking citations. In fact, the scholarly reference is to Siobhan Brownlie's book on the Norman Conquest & Nugent's 1939 movie review for the NY Times. I was expecting to see something along the lines of "here is what the RH legend was before Scott" => "here are Scott's changes" => "here is what the RH legend was after Scott". Instead, the reader is presented with (unsourced) vague statements such as: "...Scott appears to have taken the name from an anonymous manuscript ...". The editor(s) also makes important statements which should be explored further, but are just left hanging:
*"Scott makes the 12th-century's Saxon-Norman conflict a major theme in his novel."
*"Scott also shunned the late 16th-century depiction of Robin as a dispossessed nobleman (the Earl of Huntingdon)."
*"This, however, has not prevented Scott from making an important contribution to the noble-hero strand of the legend, too, because some subsequent motion picture treatments of Robin Hood's adventures give Robin traits that are characteristic of Ivanhoe as well." (I'm still confused about the link between between those 2 statements...)
Furthermore, each point in the following paragraph is inaccurate:
:This particular time-frame was popularised by Scott. He borrowed it from the writings of the 16th-century chronicler John Mair or a 17th-century ballad presumably to make the plot of his novel more gripping. Medieval balladeers had generally placed Robin about two centuries later in the reign of Edward I, II or III.
Oh, btw, Locksley's "splitting the arrow" was inspired by the "splitting the wand" in the Gest. Both RH & LJ do it repeatedly. It's moving the targets farther away - and making the shot - that made RH the champion at the Sheriff's archery contest. OK ... OK ... since I'm already so far in, I might as well do the whole subsection revision. (I'm almost done with my Ivanhoe updates, so the subject is still fresh in my mind.) And I'm going to move the legend out of the "real history" (we have enough of that with the History Channel...)  Ta-Ta for now!!  --AnalyticalHistoricalHobbyist (talk) 18:16, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Lasting Influence on the Robin Hood Legend" has serious issues