Talk:Super transformation (Sonic the Hedgehog)/Archive 1

message: Team super sonic is a main part of sonic heroes so I (and probably other people would like to hear about it. dannyboy955
: There is a small part mentioning Team Super Sonic further down, I don't think any more needs to be added in my oppinion. --Zikar 17:15, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Team Super

message: question: would it be worth mentioning that in his super form, sonic usually (though not always) continues to be portrayed as a hero? Djchallis 11:38, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not really, only Fleetway's Super Sonic is portrayed as evil, so it only needs to be mentioned on his info (see Super Transformation (other media)).--Zikar 16:27, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ah, i hadn't spotted the "other media" page, thanks.  i'm impressed you know that though, fleetway was a long time ago! Djchallis 22:29, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

text: then shouldn't the section on comic-only super transformations be put in the other media page?  also, the reason i got confused was probably because the link at the top says that the current page is about "sonic the hedgehog games", and the other page is about "other media".  the fact that it didn't mention sonic made me think it was about different things.  you've probably thought of all this before, but there's my newbie insight :) Djchallis 22:40, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Indeed, in fact I added Sonic's name to it recently (but after you asked your question ;) As for knowing a lot about Fleetway, well, I've was around for issue #1 ;) But yes, that other media page contains all other Super Transformations from Archie, Sonic the Comic and Sonic X. :) --Zikar 23:06, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Super Sonic the Hero?

message: "Sonic Speed Riders" may not be Super Sonic's theme song.  It's speculation! Needs a reliable source for <<<<
It does have clues it says "Riding On The Wave of Super Sonic it might be talking about when Super Sonic fought the Babylon Guardian.
I thought Sonic fought the Babylon Guardian in his normal form. --Alexie 00:10, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Theme song

message: It's a simple matter of reducing content and only giving the essentials in Sonic the Hedgehog. - A Link to the Past (talk) 01:20, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nope, there's to much information to merge it with Sonic's page without either bulking it massively or removing most of the actual information. I think there was a thing to try and delete/merge this page before and it was voted to leave it as is. Not to mention that Fleetway's Super Sonic is separate character from Sonic. --Zikar 04:46, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Merger.

message: Can people stop including fan forms? The article's supposed to be about the Super Sonic forms seen in official Sonic the Hedgehog media, not free advertising for fan made sprite comics and such --HellCat86 19:25, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Fan forms

message: I noticed in the introduction a false statement "Super Sonic's appearance (golden hair and aura, changed eye color) is a reference to a Super Saiyan from the Dragonball series, though Super Sonics first appearance predates Super Saiyan by several years."
First of all this makes no sense, how can his first appearance predate a Super Saiyan by several years and still be a refrence to it? 
It can't and I'll tell you why 
While this might be true in America dbz was around in japan in the 80's 
therefor Super Sonic is indeed a refrence to DBZ but his first appearance does not in anyway predate the first appearance on a Super Saiyan 
anyone disagree?Gibbman 22:42, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Super Sonic predating DBZ? yeah right 

message: I have taken away the information on "Chaos Knuckles" and "Turbo tails" from the "Other Super Forms" segment and put them under the "Archie" segment instead. I feel the "Other Super Forms" segment should only discuss those seen in the games. Is everyone OK with that?
actually..I think the section on the other Super forms should be given it's own page and that this article should only focus on Sonic's modes.  I'll change it but I wanna get some opinions first Grandmastergalvatron 18:17, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archie Super Forms 

message: Does anyone else think this article isn't really needed. I mean this article, regarldess how long, should be with the  Sonic the Hedgehog article since Sonic and Super Sonic are one in the same. In most continuities anyway. UnDeRsCoRe 15:29, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Super Sonic Article and Sonic Article

message: The chaos emeralds in sonic heroes was in special stages, rihgt?
But who placed them there?
Metal sonic maybe, And If he did, he could have used before?
Nah, neo Metal Sonic is more of an upgrade, like E-101 β mk.II. RememberMe? 00:03, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  is Neo Metal Sonic, Metal Sonic`s super form instead of metal madness\overlord? 

message: Deleted this section, the other super forms will be discussed with that character Grandmastergalvatron 19:30, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe you should change your password? --Zikar 09:19, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other Super Forms 

message: I think we should replace the current image at the top of the article with that of Super Sonic from an FMV in the new Sonic game, so that it's uniform with all the other Sonic character pages. Anyone know how to do that? --Zikar 02:29, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A noble suggestion but it would be better to use an actual CG pic of him for professional reasons.  It seems that the Channel pic is all we'll get since Sega didn't bother to create 3d art of him for Sonic Rivals :/ GrandMasterGalvatron 16:01, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Sure, if it's a nice clean shot. --Zikar 08:04, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I put one up since it's no longer an article just about Super Sonic.  Got screwed by thumbnails as usual.GrandMasterGalvatron 13:52, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice pic! I might resize it though, could do with being a tad bigger to fit in line with the others. --Zikar 21:33, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

text: They are actually identical, since the FMV seems to have been made by the same people, also the Shadow the Hedgehog game has a clearer shot of his Super form. --Zikar 11:11, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I just think, if we have a CGI picture of it, we should use it, since it looks better, more official. Plus it keeps in uniform with the other Supers. --Zikar 17:27, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image 

message: What is the deal?  Aren't there supposed to be two spaces after the end of a sentence?GrandMasterGalvatron 13:07, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Technically I think so, yes. --Zikar 13:27, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't know that. Why two? 83.255.67.167 13:46, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Separation of end of sentences, and use of initials like S.S. or things similar to that nature.GrandMasterGalvatron 21:00, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spacing 

message: even if he looks different from the other super forms and using the negative power of the emeralds instead of the positive, he is still similar enough according to me  .... or not, what do you think? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.200.164.254 (talk) 14:19, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  what about perfect chaos 

message: to not take up as much space should we put the above title instead of two seperate sections for that persons super forms. Also i just actully thourght of something. If use that device that alows u to play as people like knuckles and mighty the armadillo on games like sonic 1&2 can they get super forms in those games as well? PS: i did not change the artical so it was like ive suggested. PPS: IM NOT MT 1994 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.31.120.177 (talk) 11:06, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Super Sonic/Hyper Sonic Super Knuckles/Hyper Knuckles

message: Ok... can we block this IP: "24.187.99.83".  It keeps on vandalizing the page.  I've asked it to stop but it refuses.GrandMasterGalvatron 04:31, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Troublesome IP 

message: The 2-D pics are sorta annoying, because they didn't have good enough graphics back then to give you a good image of their Super and Hyper forms. Mainly, Tails and Knuckles. And Sonic Heroes doesn't show it full transformed, also, if it does, then those pictures are OFF time. I was just wondering if we should hunt down better pictures. I think it would help the article, although, personally, I don't like this article, but I'm going to state me opinion anyways. :P - Owner of TAils Doll's Grave, Anniku.
:In the case of the 2d games, that's all there is.  All you can really do in scale them, but even then, that throws things off by making them look all pixellated.  You're welcome to do so if you think it's unnecessary.  Also, Tails's and Knuckles's transformations are generally overwhelmingly unimpressive compared to Sonic's.  Of course, no character has anywhere near as impressive a transformation as Sonic (favoritism on the creators' part really) but those two don't even try. XD (but at least they got something..unlike Emerl)  As for Heroes, only think different from the pics here and how they look during gameplay is that Knuckles's hair is floating and Tails's tails are always spinning.  Seriously.  Knuckles was made that way for technical reasons.  Tails is universally screwed across all media.  His Super forms have amounted to: Tails with birds, Tails with a shield, Tails with a cape. (Let's not talk about Titan Tails m'kay?)
So um yeah...that's just how it is really.  If the 2d pics really bother you, I will scale them. (as they are at actual size :) ) As for the Heroes ones, I DO have the actual CG scenes on hand, HOWEVER the true resolution is SMALLER than the pics we have.  Also, the quality is barley better so unless you have a capture card, it best left as is.  As for Blaze...if you can get a higher quality pic, by all means do it!GrandMasterGalvatron 08:52, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There isn't one.  The only pic I have with just him is a semi transformed one.  It doesn't matter anyway as he looks exactly like he does in ShtH.GrandMasterGalvatron 22:14, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Crappy pics...<_< 

message: I don't like the section about Super Tails/Knuckles. No where in Sonic Heroes does it say that the two wrapped in the gold bubbles are Super forms of them. I just took it as them being surrounded by Super Sonic's invulnerability. Where does it say that they are actual Super Forms? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.17.250.77 (talk) 15:51, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In a nutshell:
Cream specifically warns them about their power flagging.  She says that can't use Super Transformation without rings.  In addition, the power is not Sonic's but the Chaos Emeralds'.  All first level transformations via Chaos Emerald Energy are labeled "Super", regardless of appearance.  This is why there is no "Hyper" Shadow, or "Shining" Silver.  It's also why Blaze's transformation is called "Burning" and therefore not a "Super" form.  Re-read the section carefully, and take note of the last sentence.
GrandMasterGalvatron 18:33, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Super Tails 

message: I mean, they where PERFECT. Who did that? They screwed up the article.
Eriorguez.
Believe it or not, of all the people in the world, it was I.  Until a consensus could be finally reached, I noted out all three of them to stop the edit warring.  Little did I know that there was still more edit warring after I left XD (humans love fighting).  I actually took this case to the help desk, and the result seems to be a slight bending of the rules.  Because this debate has created edit wars for years, it was deemed necessary that the debate itself be placed into the article, even though it may possibly involve weasel words and speculation.  Also, it was deemed that all characters involved should not be named, as there isn't a hard citation for any of them.  This in turn applies to Silver by default and fairness.  It's been fixed now and "Mecha" Sonic has been added.  GrandMasterGalvatron 07:39, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alright, who the hell took out Tails, Knuckles and Silver's sections? 

message: C'mon, most of them are explained in the gameplay! There is no need to them.
Heck, and then we get the Zoo Tycoon 2 article being vandaliced now and then...
:But guess what..professional articles have loads of citations.  This one aims to be no different :P.  After all, the peer review dudes said we needed more citations, so I'm tagging anything that can be possibly doubted.GrandMasterGalvatron 05:45, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  All those "Citation needed"... 

message: The article says:
Sometimes the screen will lag behind so much that Sonic occasionally dies for no apparent reason after the camera is forced to play catch-up.  While coming into the Dr. Robotnik boss area at the end of the "Hydrocity Zone" in Sonic 3, Sonic can fly at full speed, bypassing Dr. Robotnik himself. This results in a number of glitches.
I'm about to remove both of these statements unless somebody pulls up some cold hard facts.  I have seen the camera lag while in Super mode.  I have never died because of it.  How often does the camera lag kill the player?  Is it as widespread as the infamous CNZ Barrel?
Also, I'm calling BS on that Hydrocity statement.  There's a short space to travel before that boss and Super Sonic's acceleration isn't that good.  Anyone wanna try to back these up?GrandMasterGalvatron 22:36, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think s3k counts because a lot of things were ironed out ;)  Though I did have a funky palette glitch in Sonic 3, but I don't think it's notable.
GrandMasterGalvatron 22:50, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Super Sonic the Glitchy 

message: Okay, I admit I should have discussed before adding that, and
I'm not going to add it again, but I would still like a     
reply with some clear evidence.  Or if any of you read    
Japanese, you could maybe post all of the text, instead of just
the quote "Burning Blaze."  Sorry. >.<  
Anyway, why did you remove this:
"Similarly, Blaze is the first character with full clothing
cover to go Super, just as she is the first female."
That was explaining why she was the first to have her clothing
change color.  I mean, her shoes and gloves didn't change 
color, just as with the others. Jon166 00:01, 18
January 2007 (UTC)
The "Burning Blaze" is listed under the "special skills" tab.  IIRC it said "Able to manipulate fire.  By collecting the 7 sol emeralds, can transform into Burning Blaze"
As for the clothing comment, the page says that she's the first character who's clothes change color.  I suppose more detail could be put in as to why she does, and why Shadow and Knuckles don't (it's a palette issue).
For those who are wondering, I'll explain.  All official characters have a limited set of colors they can use.  This is because in 2d games, there is a 15 color limit on the character sprites (it's actually 16 bu the 16th is always transparent).  The super forms envoke a rotating palette which recolors the character on the spot.  For example, all blue on Sonic turns yellow.  
With this said, why doesn't Shadow's gear and Knuckles's shoes change color?  It's because Knuckles originally had five shades of red in his palette.  Two were for his shoes and three were for his fur.  Super transformation only effected the fur shades.  it's the same with Super Shadow.  The black in his gear is not the same black as his fur (unless he's not going Super in that game).  It's generally a dark grey instead of black.  
It is this rule that explains why Blaze's clothes change colors.  There are too many colors in use for it to not happen.  If the jacket stayed purple, so would her quill tips..and that would look odd.  The jacket rim didn't have to change, but it just looks better.
Why is it noteworthy?  In the advance games, Knuckles's sprite palette only has three shades of red.  Also, the Heroes model uses the same red all around.  Using the plain old recolor principle, it's impossible for Knuckles fur to glow and for his shoes not to glow.  This is why Knuckles now just has an exterior aura when he's super.  Also, it's why Shadow's model in Shadow the Hedgehog is altered from his Heroes one.  He had to have his fur and gear separated or they'd turn yellow when he went super.  Blaze on the other hand said the hell with it and just took the clothing change. XD
If you want to add that on the page (albeit shortened) then go for it. :)GrandMasterGalvatron 23:56, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Burning Blaze 

message: The title 'Super transformation' is, while better than listing the whole thing under 'Super Sonic,' a tad unsuitable, and the same goes for the 'Super transformation (other media)' article. The term could refer to any fictional transformation in any series. It would probably be more sensible to entitle this page, "Super transformations in Sonic the Hedgehog." 
That's my opinion anyway. Super Shaz 14:48, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A noble suggestion indeed.  However, I haven't seen any other series refer to it's power ups as "super transformation".  If the time comes that another series explicitly uses the term, then this will become a disambiguation page, and all applying articles will be pointed to from there on.
In short, it's not explicitly necessary now so no need to bother with it.  It's only a minute's work anyway XDGrandMasterGalvatron 22:30, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article title? 

message: I know: "Not this again!"  I just thought I'd question, why does Mecha Sonic (using Master Emerald) have a section, while Perfect Chaos (using Chaos Emeralds) has none?  Additionally, Finalhazard (using Chaos Emeralds) and Devil Doom (using Chaos Emeralds) also don't.  And as long as we can make sections for characters who use objects other than the Chaos Emeralds, why not Metal Overlord or Solaris?  
I have three suggestions:
*Give me a clear explaination why it is as it is.
*Delete Mecha Sonic.
*Make an enemy Super Transformation section/article.
I personally have no opinion toward any of these, but may I have something useful? Jon166 05:01, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mecha Sonic & Other Enemies 

message: The title contradicts the article... I don't know how to change the pic caption, so.....someone do it for me... --Superbub 01:15, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hyper Shadow? 

message: Ahem yes...Sonic has a new transformation in Secret Rings, but it's not a super transformation per se...
Sonic merges with Shara's spirit and the power of the World Rings to become Darkspines Sonic.  This form is essentially the games' answer to Dark Super Sonic.  What do you all think should be done about this form?GrandMasterGalvatron 14:47, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Darkspines Sonic 

message: using a mod in sonic heroes there can be a team dark in a super form, creating super rouge and omega. although this is only by a mod, shouldnt it be in the super forms [otrher media] ? also im really stuck on getting the 7 emeralds on sonic heroes, could someone give me some cheats/ tactics to get them. mt 1994
:Okay, first off, mods don't count. Secondly this is Wikipedia, not a game tips site, go to Gamespot or something if you want tips and cheats. --Zikar 10:34, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: super rouge/omega

message: Because the strategy guide says so and no one has provided a citation to prove otherwise.
With that said, unless someone can verify the "Darkspine" name (I'll need at least three people who own the game to confirm it), it shall stay "Darkspines".  It's simply policy mates.  The latter's got a hard citation and nothing against it but fan wishes..at least so far...GrandMasterGalvatron 14:50, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The name is Darkspines