Talk:Khalid al-Mihdhar

message: I'm looking into which Image copyright tag we should be using for these photos.  If nothing else, it certainly meets fair use, but maybe  isn't the correct tag? -Aude (talk | contribs) 17:17, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure which image you're specifically referring to, but I've found most images on the hijacker pages fit either PD-ineligible (ATM photos, security cameras, Al-Qaeda video, etc), or else/also the FBI tag, since most of the other photos we use were released in FBI press releases at some point. Sherurcij (talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject) 17:40, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was looking at :Image:KAlmihdhar.JPG, which had  (someone's changed it), and the ones removed by OrphanBot.  I think the FBI tag might be suitable, however to say an FBI employee took the photo as part of his/her duties is likely inaccurate.  And, the description on Wikipedia:Image_copyright_tags of  doesn't seem to quite fit.  There's also a  tag, though these aren't specifically mugshots but as you say security cameras or probably drivers license, passport, immigration... photos.  I'm thinking we probably need to create another tag to add to Wikipedia:Image_copyright_tags that covers these cases.  The same problems apply to FBI most wanted fugitives.  With a proper tag, we won't need to be concerned about OrphanBot. -Aude (talk | contribs) 17:50, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photo 

message: In order to uphold the quality of Wikipedia:Good articles, all articles listed as Good articles are being reviewed against the GA criteria as part of the GA project quality task force. While all the hard work that has gone into this article is appreciated, unfortunately, as of 
October 1, 
2007, this article fails to satisfy the criteria, as detailed below. For that reason, the article has been delisted from WP:GA. However, if improvements are made bringing the article up to standards, the article may be nominated at WP:GAN. If you feel this decision has been made in error, you may seek remediation at WP:GAR. 
Ruslik 09:45, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: GA review &mdash; delisted

message: I don't see any mention in the article right now, so it's possible I'm mistaken; but I'm pretty sure al-Mihdhar was married; possibly even had a child. I'm just leaving this note so I can either remind myself to dig around for confirmation, or perhaps somebody else can. Sherurcij (speaker for the dead)  07:09, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Found it, re-inserted. Please do not remove the fact without discussion. Sherurcij (speaker for the dead)  07:16, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: I could be mistaken...

message: The part about Mihdhar living with the informant is based on a marginal source, which only gives passing mention about Mihdhar and the informant.  More solid sources are needed.  Mihdhar left the U.S. in June, so it's also dubious, unsourced, with weasel words to say that "Al-Mihdhar is believed to have left the apartment in early October." --Aude (talk) 08:39, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Dubious

message: The part of the article discussing Mihdhar's selection for the plot should be a concise explanation of what the Malaysia meetings were about, within the timeline of events.  I don't think that section should delve into discussion of intelligence on Mihdhar and the intelligence failure.  Since these pieces of intelligence came together and the failure apparent after the 9/11 attacks, it really fits in the aftermath section and can be expanded upon there. --Aude (talk) 08:58, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Hrm, as much as possible I think we should offer the reader the full context as he "moves along through the article" in chronological order. So rather than saying "He attended X", then ten paragraphs, then "Back when he attended X, the FBI did Y", we should simply say "When he attended X, the FBI did Y". It gives a more complete picture; rather than separating it into chunks based on "The story from his POV", "The story from Saudi POV", "The story from FBI POV" and similar. Sherurcij (speaker for the dead)  09:02, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Mixing in what the intelligence agencies were doing with what Mihdhar was doing is not ideal. That makes the article going back and forth, and more difficult to read.  This doesn't give as coherent picture of the the intelligence failures relating to Mihdhar, as can be done by putting this part of the story together in a separate section. --Aude (talk) 09:42, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem is that after the reader has finished reading about the attacks themselves, they're then asked to go back in their mind to 1997 to find out that Saudi Arabia had eyed him for weapons smuggling...was that before his fight in Bosnia? Chechnya? It doesn't lend itself towards understanding the context; whereas knowing that someone returned from a specific battlefield, and was eyed for importing weapons offers more context. Similarly, it is better to point out that on September 5th the FBI were combing hotels looking for Mihdhar, while we're reading about how he avoided checking into the hotel he said he was staying at, and instead checked into a Ramada Inn. Instead of "He checked into a Ramada", and then ten paragraphs later mentioning "but the FBI thought he was at a Marriott". Sherurcij (speaker for the dead)  09:48, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, I put in a subheading for the year 2001, to partially separate this information but not completely. This might work, rather than putting all these details at the end. --Aude (talk) 09:56, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Intelligence information

message: TIME says it was a Camry, not a Corolla Sherurcij (speaker for the dead)  00:18, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Most of the sources say it was a Corolla, such as CBS (info from FBI), Washington Post, 9/11 Commission hearing, etc.  The vehicle was left in the hourly parking lot at Dulles on 9/11, and found the next day.  Generally speaking, many of the news reports soon after 9/11 do get some details wrong, as they do rush to get stories out with possibly not so good fact checking.  The Time looks to me something written in a rush, especially with the correction appended at the top, so I would recommend sticking with the other sources. --Aude (talk) 01:03, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Toyota

message: A couple missing points that should be added before it gets promoted, first his connection to the Islamic Army of Aden, we'd be well-served to upgrade to the better government exhibit photo of http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/profiles/images/khalid_al-mihdhar_2.jpg, and it seems http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/profiles/images/khalid_al-mihdhar_3.jpg was also entered into exhibits at Moussaoui's trial. Sherurcij (speaker for the dead)  20:59, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: on the left is al-Mihdhar's entry visa, presumably thus a work of the federal govt. Sherurcij (speaker for the dead)  21:04, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Those photos are good.  I believe the visa is public domain, so can go on commons.  The other would be fair use, since a federal employee probably didn't take the photo, and could replace the one currently uploaded. --Aude (talk) 21:12, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

text: Let's see if we can figure out their "actual source", like the Visa (again, note the visa image is the one we have blown up larger and "nice" - which means it is Public Domain, luckily for us. Perhaps the other two are as well. Sherurcij (speaker for the dead)  21:25, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think the photos themselves can be public domain, since government employees probably didn't take the photos for visas. Mihdhar probably had to bring in passport photos.  At the motor vehicle office, they do take your picture there, but it's state government which means not public domain.  Copyright issues may come up at FAC for more discussion, with additional input.  Anyway, I'm out for a while and back later. --Aude (talk) 21:29, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: FAC

message: I can find sources for May 5 and May 16, I cannot find any source alleging April 20th (currently in our infobox) - as this birthday would be shared with Adolf Hitler, the Columbine Massacre and "4:20" (a euphemism for marijuana), it seems at least possible this was unnoticed vandalism. Sherurcij (speaker for the dead)  21:30, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for pointing this out.  I changed it to May 16, which more sources appear to support.  The FBI uses that date from INS records, and it's on his visa.  Though I don't put a lot of trust in what his fake ID says, he used May 16 for that, as well. The discrepancy is noted in the article. --Aude (talk) 02:41, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: BIrthdate

message: *his Visa Sherurcij (speaker for the dead)  02:03, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Better photos

message: I forgot to mention this in my previous note. Al-Qaeda needs to be consistent in the article. It is usually spelled al-Qaeda in the article but there a several instances in which it is spelled Al-Qaeda. momoricks talk 21:25, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for pointing that out.  I looked at how Lawrence Wright and other sources spell the name, and they use al-Qaeda. --Aude (talk) 21:42, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  One more thing 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Al-Mihdhar was born on May 16, 1975, in Mecca, Saudi Arabia to a prominent family, related to the Quraysh tribe of Mecca.
If it’s prominent, why the name of the family is not provided?
If it’s prominent because of relations with the Quraysh, aren’t there countless of families with Quraysh lineage in Arabia? What makes it prominent if so (plus how do you assess if it’s actually related?)? JahlilMA (talk) 05:55, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the name of the family is Al-Mihdhar! I don't think the implication of the text is that the family is prominent because it is related to the Quraysh: this is just an additional piece of information. What is slightly more problematic is that this statement and others are footnoted to "Videotape of recorded will of Abdulaziz al-Omari and others". Without a link to this video, assuming it exists online somewhere, we cannot verify exactly what is said on that video and whether it states specifically what you have quoted above. It is interesting that there is a dispute over his date of birth but this sentence of the article states it without qualification: is the implication that this date is asserted in the will video? Beorhtwulf (talk) 14:16, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  What does it mean by “prominent family”? 

message: seems like some poor taste to make this dude appear on the front page of wikipedia  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8806:6000:85:31C3:5FFE:E18:1A7C (talk) 15:29, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: *There is a discussion on this on the main page's talk page. Personally disagree with the above discussion as I do not see how having this as a featuring article is glorifying or promoting this person. This is an encyclopedia, and the point is to provide information (including information on uncomfortable subject matters). Aoba47 (talk) 03:19, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Front page featured article? 

message: The Infobox has an entry for "Occupation", and Khalid al-Mihdhar's occupation is given as "Terrorist." An occupation is usually defined as a full-time job where someone earns money on a weekly or steady basis. I have never heard of anyone earning a living as terrorist. A terrorist is a violent criminal who kills people and/or destroys property, not someone who is in the labor force and contributing to the Gross National Product. I really don't think that the 9/11 hijackers were contributing to the economy. The entry  "Occupation" should be deleted from the Infobox.Anthony22 (talk) 18:00, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe it should be acalled "preoccupation." Marcd30319 (talk) 13:05, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is "Terrorist" an occupation? 

message: All Middle Eastern countries have that dating format. It's part of Western Asia and since he originated from an Arabic speaking country, it should be changed into DMY format both DOB and death like this: b. 16 May 1975-d. 11 September 2001. 
Goodbye, 
67.81.163.178 (talk) 16:23, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why Does He Have MDY Layout Instead of DMY?