Talk:South Lebanon Army

message: Guy, you've inserted "Many in Israel believed that Ehud Barak's decision to withdraw without consulting his SLA allies led to the SLA's collapse."
I'm not sure what you're getting at. Did anyone really believe (as this suggests) that the SLA could have continued without Israeli backing, or do you mean they thought it might have been able to fold up in a more orderly way? Perhaps you could clarify. Palmiro 18:22, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm puzzled how this could be a surprise, as the dismantling of the SLA was a requrement for the Israeli agreed compliance with UN resolution 425; see para 21 of .  This must have been discussed/agreed with Israel well in advance, and it is hard to see this not being told/leaking to the SLA. Certainly Isreal's allies such as the U.S. would have known in advance via the UN. The former deputy commander of the SLA says "It is very important to understand that the SLA did not fall apart last month; it was dismantled by the Israelis. Our soldiers were told that the border with Israel would be permanently shut - and that they had a choice to remain isolated in South Lebanon or take refuge in Israel. At that point, given this choice, they had no choice but to flee."  Rwendland 23:04, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ehud Barak was elected prime minister due to his campaign promise that Israel will withdraw from Lebanon within a year. Claiming that SLA was caught by surprise is neither factually correct nor NPOV. --Telecart 15:28, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The real question for the purpose of this article isn't whether the SLA was surprised, but whether we're correct in reporting that some Israeli critics accused Barak of abandoning the SLA.  If so, we should say so and cite them. --Delirium 12:44, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Agreed, though, again, Israeli papers can accuse and then refute their accusation 3 weeks later in a small note at the back of the paper, I wouldn't take these charges too seriously.. But either way, the current phrasing should be changed. Worth noting that the Hebrew Wikipedia entry for the Israeli withdrawal depicts the collapse / withdrawal thing was the other way around - SLA slowly crumbled due to civilian protests that HizbAllah arranged, and because of the imminent withdrawal, until it collapsed, and so Israel withdrew earlier than planned. --Telecart 18:51, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Collapse of SLA

message: I don't understand your argument. Syria had 40,000 troops stationed in Lebanon, and treated it as an extension of Syria. The lebanese government acted as lapdogs for the Syrian forces and were forced to obey Demascus by violating the cease-fire treaty and not deploying Lebanese troops in Southern Lebanon. 
Guy Montag 00:07, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: What do you mean, exactly? Can you explain what your concern about the article is, and why you put the POV tag on it? Thanks. Palmiro | Talk 18:38, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "SLA members received their salary from the Lebanese army until 1990", I do not find this statement true because SLA was formed by Israel. Although its name is SLA, it was just a militia like any other militia and has no affiliations with the Lebanese government. There was, however, some Lebanese retired officers that joined SLA and their pension payment was not cancelled. SLA has always received its finances from Israel and the Lebanese government did not fund any militia as far as I know. Cheers --A rihani 20:02, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added a request for a source for this claim; if one isn't provided in a few days we can take it out. In the meantime, if you have a source that specifically disproves this, then we can of course use that - but it would have to clearly support the information that you want to put into the article, of course. سلامات, Palmiro | Talk 09:38, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See Operation Litani section on The Civil War web page published by The Lebanese-American Association. I think this supports my argument. Cheers --A rihani 10:59, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But it doesn't actually say that the Lebanese army stopped paying the salaries of the collaborationists, which is what we need. Also, I'm afraid that it isn't really up to our standards for reliable sources. What we really need is some reputable newspaper or published book on the history or politics of the time. I'm not trying to be obstructive, just to make sure that whatever we have in the article is beyond reproach - sorry...  Palmiro | Talk 11:10, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There is nothing to be sorry for! The article claims that the Lebanese government was paying salaries for a militia and this what needs a reference. When SLA was founded, many of its members were ex-soldiers and by 1990 the SLA comprised of muslims and christians equally and only few of them served in the Lebanese Army before. Cheers --A rihani 12:53, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Ok, please see my latest changes. Is the material about the salaries accurate now, as far as you know? Of course, we still need a proper source in any case. Palmiro | Talk 13:12, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Collaborationist

message: I think there have been some questions in the past about when Lebanese Army pay for the members of the FLA/SLA ended. What I've found is that the the Haddad's forces (the pre-SLA) were on the government payroll up until Haddad declared his state of Free Lebannon in 1979. He decared his "independence" on April 18th of that year and the government essentially fired everyone involved the next day (cutting off their pay). Sources for this include  (this one gets the facts right - the cutoff of funds but is wrong on the timing in that the government cut the pre-SLA off the day after rather than before their independence).  which gets the timing of events right. I can't find any evidence that anyone in the SLA received any money from the Lebanese Army after 1979. 168.127.0.51 21:43, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  SLA and Lebanese Government pay 

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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:08, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:SLA patch.png

message: The tag was put up in Dec 07, but there's no discussion from that time.  I'm removing it as no one has a POV issue with this article that they're willing to discuss. --Deusnoctum (talk) 04:57, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Neutrality tag

message: Can we get those in English? Specifically the first one. - Schrandit (talk) 23:15, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Foreign Language Sources

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thread_title: File:South Lebanon Army Patch.png Nominated for speedy Deletion

message: It was necessary to tag the article. Due to the many abbreviations the article is difficult too read, when you are not an insider. It took a while before I new what LTs and MBTs were. So, please look for the abbreviations and write them out. That will make the article better and better to read! Thanks in advance! Night of the Big Wind (talk) 18:43, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too many abbreviations 

message: This practice was documented by a 1999 Human Rights Watch report ("ISRAEL/LEBANON PERSONA NON GRATA: The Expulsion of Civilians from Israeli-Occupied Lebanon), found here http://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/reports/ISRLB997.pdf
There is no mention of this in the article, and I have zero experience with editing and contributing on Wikipedia. Could anyone help out?
"The SLA practice of forced conscription of teenaged boys who live in 
the zone has also been a long-standing nightmare for families who are opposed 
to the occupation and despise Israel’s surrogate militia. Some families moved out 
of the zone on their own initiative to ensure that their sons would not be forced 
into SLA service. Others stayed in their villages but sent their sons out when they 
reached fourteen or fifteen years of age. According to testimony, children have 
been forcibly pressed into service. “They take them at fourteen, fifteen, and 
sixteen years old,” said a woman from the village of Markaba, whose own son 
was forcibly conscripted at sixteen. She told Human Rights Watch that a 
neighbor’s son was forcibly taken at fourteen. 
Farmers and other residents who earned their livelihoods in the occupied 
zone also recounted massive corruption within the top ranks of the occupation 
security apparatus, in the form of arbitrary “taxes” on business purchases, 
harvests, and other income. Some families also said that they directly paid cash to 
SLA security officials to secure the release of sons from the militia or to ensure 
that these young men and boys would be spared conscription. By several 
first-hand accounts, militiamen who conducted searches of residents’ homes also 
“confiscated” — looted — cash, gold, and vehicles, resulting in losses equivalent 
to thousands of U.S. dollars."
page 8
"Expelled residents of the zone interviewed by Human Rights Watch all 
noted dramatic declines in the population of their communities over the last two 
decades: some villages that once had thousands of inhabitants have been reduced 
in size to several hundred persons, most of them, according to testimony, elderly 
people or members and supporters of the SLA militia. For example, former 
residents of Markaba, a village several miles from the Israeli border, said the 
population had dwindled to 150 to 200 people from some 12,000 before the 
occupation. Lebanese knowledgeable about the zone estimate that the current 
population is about 120,000.6 Israeli estimates place the number of residents 
below 100,000.7 Contributing to the drain has been the exodus of teenagers and 
young men to avoid forced conscription into the SLA, departures that have been 
encouraged and often arranged by their parents (see “Punishing Flight from the 
Militia,” below). "
page 18
"A former resident who deserted the SLA in 1995 told Human Rights 
Watch: “They take them even at twelve years old if they are tall and strong. It 
depends on the village. If you collaborate with them, they don’t take you. The 
young men who are left in the villages are either collaborators or militia.” He 
said that militiamen have visited villages with lists of names, looking for intended 
conscripts at their homes.83 By the accounts of other residents, sometimes the 
SLA security chief in a village personally instructed fathers that their sons should 
“volunteer.” If families were not responsive, the sons were forcibly conscripted. 
A former resident of Sheba, expelled in December 1998, said that teenagers 
between the ages of fifteen and seventeen were targeted for conscription: “They 
had to join the SLA voluntarily or by force. Those who did not had to leave.” As 
noted earlier, the exercise of this option of flight from the occupied zone has 
contributed to the depopulation of local villages. "
page 62
"In a separate interview, former residents of Kfar Kila described the 
case of their younger brother Karim (not his real name), who was forcibly 
conscripted when he was fifteen or sixteen years old. They said that he served in 
the SLA for nine years, and was wounded three times. The family said that they 
obtained from Gen. Antoine Lahd, the commander of the SLA, a document 
ordering Karim’s release on medical grounds. “My father brought it to Robin 
Abboud [whom he identified as the SLA military official responsible for the 
western sector of the occupied zone] and he tore the paper into pieces,” an older 
brother testified. He said that the family then paid $5,000 to Abboud, and Karim 
was released, about eighteen months to two years before the interview with 
Human Rights Watch.87 In 1998, a resident of Mhaibib, a small village located 
between Meiss al-Jabal and Blida, told Human Rights Watch that he was detained 
for six days in the SLA security office in Aitaroun after his seventeen-year-old 
son fled the militia. He was said that he was released after agreeing to pay $2,000 
to the SLA.88"
page 64
Again, since I have no experience with Wikipedia, I was hoping to leave this to someone who knows what to do.
Al-Shishani al-Urduni (talk) 17:07, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Forced conscription of teenagers 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: @General Ization: Why are you restoring Ireland, Netherlands and the UN in the "Opponents" section of infobox? Don't you see this is a clear unsourced, incorrect information? Other parties is WITHIN THE CATEGORY OF OPPONENTS of the SLA (just like Non-state actors is within "Allies"). Check the infobox again.--Danosauruscreck (talk) 01:42, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: It doesn't matter if the article says that Bugs Bunny was a combatant; you don't get to repeatedly revert an article to your preferred version after being informed that other editors disagree, or even one other editor disagrees.  You have now violated WP:3RR after having been warned of the consequences.  I'll discuss it with you at the WP:EWN. General Ization Talk   01:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

text: As for the factual accuracy of the original edit you reverted, inviting  to explain their edit here. General Ization Talk   02:16, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

text: The consensus version has been restored, as neither  nor  meet the requirements to edit this article under the restrictions imposed on new editors as a result of active arbitration remedies noted at the top of this page. General Ization Talk   03:32, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opponents