Talk:Tumbler pigeons

message: I think the text that currently reads
Tumbler pigeons are varieties of domesticated pigeons descendant from the Rock Dove that have been selected for their ability to tumble or roll over backwards in flight. 
Should be revised to read
Tumbler pigeons are varieties of domesticated pigeons descendant from the Rock Dove that were originally selected for their ability to tumble or roll over backwards in flight. 
I realize there are some breeds still called "Tumbler" that do an aerial performance but I think most of varieties of with Tumbler in the name are these days fancy pigeons which are no longer selected for aerial performance.  Most of the aerial performers are called "Rollers" (e. g. Oriental Rollers and Birmingham Rollers).  Thoughts? --Onorio (talk) 00:32, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem with adding "were originally" is that it disregards the fact that breeds of tumbler still exist for performance. You could add a sentence saying that there are varieties of tumblers no longer selected for performance ability as their breeders concentrate purely on exhibition qualities. This particular article was created (I created it) to emphasize the tumbling ability and to link to some of the more popular varieties of tumbler. I was also concerned at the time (before the page existed) that if someone just typed in "tumbler" they couldn't find much on the disambiguation page. Now they find a link to this page and then they can go from here to other tumbler variety articles. The fact that some varieties nowadays are only bred for show can be better covered on individual breed article pages. Only need a basic summary of it here. There is also a Roller (pigeon) article along the same lines.--Sting au Buzz Me... 10:41, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point.  I guess in my limited experience most of the flying varieties seem to be called "rollers" now and almost every "tumbler" I've ever run across (Russian Tumbler, West of England Tumbler, English Long- and Shortface Tumbler,  Koromoner Tumbler etc. etc.) are all show varieties now.  I realize they were initially selected for aerial performance (I understand that there are still strains of West of England Tumblers that do perform in the air) but that seems to have become secondary in most cases.  Still, when you explain what your thinking was, I can see your point.  Probably, as you say, add a sentence to the effect that many breeds of pigeons called "Tumblers" no longer "tumble".  --Onorio (talk) 11:23, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah Wests, various strains of other otherwise typical "show" tumblers do have breeders maintaining performing birds. Australian Performing Tumblers still have a few can tumble in flight. But those too are now more bred for show unfortunately. I think you will find that Kormorners can still be flown and some strains do still perform. Actually you would be supprised to find that if you were to investigate some show strains performance ability that some would still possess the "ro" gene. Some show stock of Australian Saddlebacks was found to still be able to perform in the air. We don't get to see it with our "show" birds because we tend to not let them out for fear of hawks taking our good show specimens.--Sting au Buzz Me... 11:32, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

message: No mention of the Hannibal Lecter analogy?   Wikipedia has failed me!  214.13.173.15 (talk) 15:33, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  What?