Talk:West Country

message: "the further West the less Easterly one would consider part of the region"
um. right. Jafafa Hots 02:55, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: it means culturally, not just geographically. --Krsont 17:03, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: June 2006

message: I snipped a lot of information out which may seem dramatic, but here are the reasons why:
1. The historical info is very interesting, but strictly speaking irrelevant to an article about the West Country, and certainly irrelevant to a section defining what counties the West Country includes. It should be in an article on Cornish history. The same applies to whether or not Cornish people consider themselves English. It assumes that to be part of the West Country is to be English. Cornwall is indubitably part of England, so I don't see how that works.
2. I found the wording of the paragraph hard to understand. It states that Cornwall (I assume its people) have a "distinct view", but it doesn't say what this view is. Also, what does "the exclusivity of what defines a West Country county" mean? I suspect (with no offence to the writer) that these are words for words sake.
I trust no one is offended by the change, and I apologise for any offense caused. 219.89.19.187 (talk) 08:02, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good call! However the phrase "Cornwall is considered by many" is unencyclopaedic / imprecise and really should be re-worded accompanied by a reference. --Cheesy Mike (talk) 08:57, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. I agree that the phrase is imprecise. It's the best I could think up at the time. The problem is that "West Country" is an informal designation, so common understanding is the only basis for saying whether a county is or isn't in it. I shall try and think up an improvement; in the meantime, please feel free to alter. 122.57.187.208 (talk) 20:03, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Cornwall

message: There is no such county as Avon anymore.  Cardinal Wurzel 18:57, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed - it's Somerset now - so Avon should be removed. White43 (talk) 11:07, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

text: ...but I've added City of Bristol back in.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:52, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Avon

message: "The area is mostly rural, with a few notable cities (principally Plymouth)"
Hmmm. What about Bristol, Exeter(Devon), Bournemouth/Poole(Dorset)?
:Does anyone else think that the list of towns and cities is getting a bit long? Perhaps it should be restricted to cities only, and after each county have a link to it's list of towns (e.g. List of places in Cornwall). Any objections to this? At the very least I think we should remove some of the smaller towns from the list, like Calne and Totnes. Gasheadsteve 15:26, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You find me an atlas with the Westcountry labelled on it and you're very lucky, it is an informal area. Bristol clearly is in the Westcountry. "For the ITV franchise, see Westcountry Television." Marky-Son 14:03, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Principal Towns 

message: When I look up this word recently, a dictionary says West Country is "west of a line between Southhampton and the River Severn".  This is a common definition that should be in Wiki article, or not?
:I've never heard of this before. What part of the River Severn?! Depending on where the line would go, you could well be leaving out places like Swindon and Cheltenham, and certainly places west of the River Severn, like the Forest of Dean. Dividing up geographical areas in straight lines annoys me, unless it's an American state, it's just silly. Marky-Son 13:48, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another definition 

message: What criteria is being applied for the inclusion of towns in the notable towns and cities section? I see, for example, that Lyme Regis  which has a population under 5,000 is included, as is Tewkesbury with a population of around 10,000. Can we agree on some clear criteria then review the list to ensure the right settlements are included?
I also suggest the section should be renamed to "Notable settlements" 
Opinions? --Simple Bob (talk) 07:59, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Using the above criteria, as an example, Somerset would have Wells and Bath as cities, Taunton as the county town, then the top five settlements of Weston-super-Mare (71,000), Bridgwater (33,000), Yeovil (27,000), Frome (24,000) and Portishead (22,000). Total 8 entries. --Simple Bob (talk) 08:17, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This seems like a useful approach, however seeing as there is little agreement about what the "West County" contains, getting agreement on these could also be difficult... and when you come to "places of interest" it is even more subjective.— Rod talk 09:37, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think such a strict approach would work for the reasons Rodw suggests.  Is Portishead really more "notable" than Lyme Regis, say?  (Is Portishead even in "Somerset"? - a debatable point. Administratively, it isn't.)  Perhaps one way forward would be to include a list of urban areas by strict population size in the South West England article, and link to that list from here?  Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:18, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: All good points, I just threw in my suggestion to get a discussion started. Another question then. Do we even need the notable settlements and visitor attraction sections at all given their subjectivity? --Simple Bob (talk) 10:22, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: (ec)This brings up the debate about Ceremonial counties of England v Unitary authorities - I thought the wp guideline was to use ceremonial counties. As far as population lists go there is still a problem - do we use civil parish, Combined statistical area, County borough,  Metropolitan area or Larger Urban Zones etc & do we use data from United Kingdom Census 2001 or more recent estimates? - these things are never simple.— Rod talk 10:30, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I suggest using this database for any list of urban areas by population - it's 9 years out of date, but is verifiably consistent in terms of the definitions used.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:41, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: But from that database would you use Bristol (420556) or Bristol Urban Area (551066)?— Rod talk 10:55, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable towns and cities 

message: Bournemouth and Poole are not West Country towns. They are far removed from the actual West Country, both geographically and culturally. Their inclusion in Dorset is not synonymous with inclusion in the West Country - they have only been part of Dorset since the 80's, so it would be foolish to suggest that they are suddenly part of an informal region that is primarily defined by its cultural aspects rather than any real border.
As the article itself states, the border for the West Country is not defined and is in fact open to debate. I have seen no good evidence to suggest that Bournemouth and Poole is part of the West Country, so I have taken it upon myself to remove them from the "notable towns" section. I hope that the editors here are reasonable and do not revert this change.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.20.58.89 (talk) 18:35, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: That's your opinion. I disagree, as do other editors who have debated the area's composition at length and so I have reverted your edit. Dorset is part of the West Country, Bournemouth and Poole are part of Dorset and so are part of the West Country. If Dorset isn't part of the West Country then how do you explain the UK and EU sanctioned "West Country Farmouse Cheddar Cheese" PDO which states that milk must be sourced from and cheese must be made within the four counties of Somerset, Dorset, Devon and Cornwall? Are you saying that cheese made in Poole and Bournemouth cannot use the PDO? Bottom line, there is no right/wrong answer and that is made clear in the article, but it is simply wrong to completely remove Dorset and the towns within it.  --Simple Bob a.k.a. The Spaminator (Talk) 18:43, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The article would benefit, in my view, from the complete deletion of the lists of Counties and unitary authorities, the "Notable towns and cities", and the "Places of interest".  The last two are matters of opinion - unencyclopedic - and, like the first list, are debatable because the area covered by the "West Country" is itself debatable.  The article should in my view simply set out where is defined as the West Country in different sources, and note that there are different definitions - with links to more formally defined areas such as the South West region.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 19:31, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

text: Various definitions of the west country include Dorset. Bournemouth, Poole are part of Dorset so by extension they are in some definitions of the west country. However  Ghmyrtle's suggestion is a good one. This isn't a government region so I see little point in including exhaustive bulleted lists, however the various counties should be listed within the various definitions. --Simple Bob a.k.a. The Spaminator (Talk) 08:33, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

text: b.t.w. WIkipedia is based on consensus reached through rational discussion. So threats to go to ANI at such an early point in a discussion are unnecessary, as are statements such as "I am not willing to waver in my decision". Your decision? Read WP:OWN and you will see that you don't actually own the article so your decision counts for nothing - consensus is what matters. --Simple Bob a.k.a. The Spaminator (Talk) 08:36, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: There is also the point that Bournemouth and Christchurch were not part of the historic county of Dorset, they were historically in Hampshire. I (ok, we) will take the lists out, and await counter-arguments. Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:41, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

text: By the way, if the IP thinks that Bournemouth is "far removed from the actual West Country", he/she must have a pretty clear idea of where they think its limits are.  Not that their views carry any weight here, but it would be interesting to know.  Is it the Bristol area "West Country", or the Cornwall & Devon "West Country"?  Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:48, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

text: Precisely.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:43, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

text: "I do not want to tell you a third time?" Is that a threat? What makes you think consensus is formed because one person constantly bleats about his point of view? Where is the consensus to support your opinion? --Bob Re-born (talk) 19:02, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

text: The article is clear that there are many definitions of West Country. You clearly have just one in mind. There are sources that show that a number of these definitions include Dorset, and while Poole and Bournemouth may be on the edge of Dorset, they are nevertheless within the county and therefore fall within some definitions of West Country. --Bob Re-born (talk) 23:17, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: That's right.  Unless the IP can show that no definitions of the West Country whatsoever include Dorset or Bournemouth, it should stay in that list.  As I said before, the IP must have a remarkably precise idea of West Country boundaries, in order to suggest that Bournemouth is excluded.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 23:29, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

text: I support the removal of the entire list.  It's unnecessary - they are shown on the map, which should remain if a better source for it or a similar map can be found - and it's not supported by the supposed source, which relates to the official South West region.  Some sources regard the region as synonymous with the "West Country", but not all.  Including a list of towns could suggest, over-definitively, that the West Country includes those towns but excludes others - it does not add any information of encyclopedic value.  However verbose and irritating the IP / VoiceOfReason922 may be, he/she is essentially right.  As a PS, I believe it is a complete abuse of admins' powers to fully protect the article over such a trivial disagreement.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:01, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bournemouth and Poole are not West Country towns 

message: In fact they don't have a clue. Imagine having Bristol as part of the Westcountry!!!! It is laughable. Next they will be arguing that Newcastle is in scotland or that Brussells is in France--Westcountry4ever (talk) 19:44, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Read the article.  Read the comments on this page.  Everyone has their own ideas of where it covers - we report what the sources say.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 19:58, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

text: Some people in Gloucs and Swindon certainly regard themselves as being in the West Country.  I think that what you are saying is that we need a new map - but it would not be realistic to attempt to draw a map of "the West Country".  What we need is a good map of South West England, simply as background - but I'm not sure what should be included on it.  Ceremonial county boundaries, or local authority areas?  Which towns?  I'll raise the question at Talk:South West England before making a request at Graphics. Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:45, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I have blocked  indefinitely as a vandalism-only account (see his other edits). Reaper Eternal (talk) 14:04, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Whoever drew that map is out of touch with reality 

message: The long-established wording of the opening paragraph was as follows: The West Country is an informal term for the area of south western England roughly corresponding to the modern South West England government region. It is often defined to encompass the historic counties of Cornwall, Devon, Dorset, and Somerset, and the City and County of Bristol, while the counties of Gloucestershire and Wiltshire are also often included. Some usages of the term include wider areas, while others are more specific, though with little consistency of definition.   This was changed here by  to:The West Country is an area of south western England, roughly comprising the counties of Cornwall, Devon, Dorset, and Somerset, as well as Gloucestershire and Wiltshire in some definitions.... and through subsequent discussions and edits to:The West Country is a loosely defined area of south western England, roughly comprising the counties of Bristol, Cornwall, Devon, Dorset, and Somerset, as well as Gloucestershire and Wiltshire in many definitions.  But, that wording is inadequate, and the alternative wording now in place is this:The West Country is a loosely defined area of south western England that roughly corresponds to the modern South West England government region. It is often defined to encompass the historic counties of Cornwall, Devon, Dorset, and Somerset, and the City and County of Bristol, while the counties of Gloucestershire and Wiltshire, and the Isles of Scilly, are also often included. Some usages of the term include wider areas, while others are more specific, though with little consistency of definition.  The point at issue is not to do with the historic counties (though they are important) - it is to do with the need to emphasise that there is no consistent definition, and indeed that different organisations use conflicting definitions.  Attempting to shorten the opening paragraphs in the way that Zacwill16 suggests would give insufficient weight to the need to emphasise the variation in definitions.  More important than those considerations is the need for the edit-warring parties to come to this page to discuss the matter, rather than attempting to win the argument through edit summaries.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 19:47, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: While it should be stated that it's not a rigidly defined area, it should not be overly stressed; doing so suggests some kind of bizarre POV against the West Country. The previous version already describes it as 'loosely defined' and 'rough compromising the counties of...' Adding an additional line calling the region 'inconsistent in definition' is entirely unnecessary, and treats Wikipedia readers as idiots. Note that articles on other regions in the British Isles, such as the Scottish Highlands, don't feel need to describe them as INCONSISTENT half a dozen times in the opening paragraph. Zacwill16 (talk) 21:34, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The Scottish Highlands are a relatively well-defined area.  The West Country is not - there are conflicting definitions, as a reading of the article and previous discussions on this page will inform you.  All that can be said is that most of (not even all) the definitions fall within the South West region - but there is no consistency as to which parts of the SW are included.  That is important.  There is no "POV against the West Country", merely an intention to provide accurate and not inaccurate information.   Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:41, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Speaking as a Scot, the Highlands are absolutely not a well-defined area. You could find just as much variation in definition as you could for the West Country. Two mentions of the fact that it is not consistently defined are quite enough to get the point across to readers, without giving this fact undue weight. Zacwill16 (talk) 10:35, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

text: The introduction as it currently stands is illogical, because on the one hand it states that it roughly corresponds to the South West England government region, but on the other it states that there is little consistency of definition, and states that according to some definitions it does not include Wiltshire and Gloucestershire - in which case, it doesn't always correspond with the South West England government region. I propose removing the line "that roughly corresponds to the modern South West England government region", as this is attempting to pin it down to a particularly defined area. On the question of whether the looseness of the definition is being overly stressed or not, I don't have such a strongly held view as others here. To me, either of the following would be acceptable, though if I had to pick one, I'd choose the first:The West Country is a loosely defined area of south western England, often defined to encompass the historic counties of Cornwall, Devon, Dorset, and Somerset, and the City and County of Bristol, while the counties of Gloucestershire and Wiltshire, and the Isles of Scilly, are also often included. Some usages of the term include wider areas, while others are more specific, though with little consistency of definition.The West Country is a loosely defined area of south western England, often defined to encompass the historic counties of Cornwall, Devon, Dorset, and Somerset, and the City and County of Bristol, while the counties of Gloucestershire and Wiltshire, and the Isles of Scilly, are also often included. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 07:50, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: It depends how loosely you interpret the term "roughly".  Some definitions use the term as synonymous with the official SW region, while others do not.  I'm not opposed to either of the suggested rewordings, though I prefer the first, to emphasise the variation - and conflict between - alternative definitions (for example, those who insist that the West Country refers to Devon and Cornwall, while others insist that it refers to an area including Bristol, Swindon, etc.).    Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:35, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Though neither are ideal in my opinion, I also find the first preferable. Since three of us are in agreement, I have instated this version (though without the term 'historic county', which is redundant: the historic and modern counties are identical in this case). Zacwill16 (talk) 15:55, 3 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: That's OK with me, though I've changed "defined" to "regarded" in one instance, to avoid repetition.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:11, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

text: I strongly recommend that you, IP editor, quit this ridiculous hectoring. Comment on content, not contributors. Thanks. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 18:04, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

text: I suggest you acquaint yourself with Wikipedia protocols. If you believe an editor's conduct to be egregious, you have the option of raising the matter at WP:ANI, where administrators can assess the situation. However, seeing as you have already involved yourself in edit-warring and making personal attacks, if you were to file a post at ANI, you might find that your own conduct rather compromises the strength of your complaint. I suggest you moderate your comments in future. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 18:37, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

text: You have described another editor as deceitful and of arrogant POV-pushing. Considering that you do not know someone's motives, I would regard that as a personal attack. I expect you will disagree, but I shall not be making any further comments on this matter. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:13, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

text: In which case you are in breach of WP:3RR.Charles (talk) 21:23, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

text: Are you really calling the removal of a superfluous word 'obvious vandalism'? Especially when I clearly explained my reasoning on the talk page and received approval from another user, . In risk of stooping to your level, I would say that the only vandal here is you, with your bullying tactics and arrogant presumption that 'the article will stay as it is'. Zacwill16 (talk) 16:11, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit warring over opening paragraph 

message: Would you like to win up to £250 in Amazon vouchers for participating in The West Country Challenge?
The The West Country Challenge will take place from 8 to 28 August 2016. The idea is to create and improve articles about Bristol, Somerset, Devon, Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly, Dorset, Wiltshire and Gloucestershire, like this one.
The format will be based on Wales's successful Awaken the Dragon which saw over 1000 article improvements and creations and 65 GAs/FAs. As with the Dragon contest, the focus is more on improving core articles and breathing new life into those older stale articles and stubs which might otherwise not get edited in years. All contributions, including new articles, are welcome though.
Work on any of the items at:
*Core articles
*Missing article hotlist
*Missing photograph hotlist
or other articles relating to the area.
There will be sub contests focusing on particular areas:
*Bristol (Day 1-3)
*Cornwall and Scilly (Day 4-6)
*Devon (Day 7-9)
*Dorset (Day 10-12)
*Gloucestershire (Day 13-15)
*Somerset (Day 16-18)
*Wiltshire (Day 19-21)
To sign up or get more information visit the contest pages at Wikipedia:WikiProject England/The West Country Challenge.— Rod talk 15:58, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  The West Country Challenge 

message: Moved per WP:PRESERVE:
The West Country is mostly rural, with only a few sizeable towns and cities. Tourism and agriculture, especially dairy farming, play a significant role in the economy. The landscape is principally granite moorland in the west, and chalk and limestone downland and clay vales in the east. Historically, tin mining and the fishery were sources of income and employment in the west of the area, but less so today, although the latter still contributes to the economy. The region is traditionally famous for its production of cider, clotted cream, and pasties, and in modern times has also become well known for the Glastonbury Festival and other attractions.  
L.R. Wormwood (talk) 23:44, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: If material about the area's geography, history, industries, etc., can be referenced from reliable sources that use the specific term "West Country", my view is that it can be included in this article - although such content would be better treated in more depth in articles about more tightly defined regions (such as South West England, or the individual county or city articles).   Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:28, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

text: But bear in mind that the West Country is not a defined area - unlike, say, Somerset, or Cornwall, or South West England.  So, which area would such sections cover?  And, why would they be needed here if they merely duplicate sections in those other articles?   Ghmyrtle (talk) 18:25, 16 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moved from page 

message: Herefordshire and Worcestershire are West Country. There is a West Country culture there, and this is the area that the West Country accent really begins. --Mozart834428196 (talk) 16:40, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Where are your reliable sources?   Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:30, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Where are yours? All these sources claiming that the West Country is exclusively southern is just someone's opinion. My intent is to have both opinions, also including the opinion that it includes part of the West Midlands. --Mozart834428196 (talk) 13:46, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: On top of this, the news website This is the West Country includes Herefordshire. --Mozart834428196 (talk) 14:08, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The news website 'This is the West Country' also includes stories in Staffordshire  - so are you going to include Staffordshire in the West Country too? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 18:57, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Look, all I'm trying to say in the article is that one opinion is that Herefordshire and Worcestershire are in the West Country. We can have both views: the view that the West Country is exclusively southern, and the view that the West Country includes Herefordshire and Worcestershire. There are no official boundaries, and so it is down to views. As an encyclopaedia, Wikipedia's article on the West Country should cover all views. --Mozart834428196 (talk) 20:04, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia articles are not based on opinions - they are based on what published, independent, reliable sources say.  Thisisthewestcountry.co.uk, by the way, covers Cornwall, Devon , Somerset... and national stories, which could be anywhere.   Ghmyrtle (talk) 20:10, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: All I'm saying is that as an encyclopedia, we should cover all views on the boundaries. It should mention that some say it is exclusively southwest, others say that it includes part of the West Midlands. Both views should be mentioned on the page. --Mozart834428196 (talk) 14:15, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

text: I think it should clearly state though that some include Herefordshire and Worcestershire. --Mozart834428196 (talk) 19:43, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: You have not yet provided any source for your claim that it is sometimes used to include Worcestershire.  Herefordshire is mentioned in the article text, but it would be giving it undue weight to mention it specifically in the lede.   Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:19, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

text: Ancestry.co.uk has "Ancient West Country Families" in its Herefordshire stories : --Mozart834428196 (talk) 12:14, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, West Country breweries have (or have had in the past) several breweries in Herefordshire . --Mozart834428196 (talk) 12:17, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: No-one disputes that there are some organisations that refer to Herefordshire as being in the West Country.  But, probably not very many, and there's no need for that to be mentioned in the lede which exists to summarise the most important parts of the article, and not to mislead readers.  I have seen nothing, anywhere, to suggest that Worcestershire should be mentioned.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:44, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, I see. I've written "Some include Herefordshire in the West Midlands." I haven't put right in the middle, but it mentions it.  Also, I have found that there are some West Country ales locations in Worcestershire . --Mozart834428196 (talk) 15:27, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a bit like saying Merseyside and North Wales are "sometimes considered" part of Scotland because Scottish Power operate there.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:25, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I suppose. Companies aside, I've added that some consider Herefordshire part of the West Country, because it should be added. --Mozart834428196 (talk) 17:19, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: "Because it should be added" is rarely a good enough reason for adding anything here.  So far, no-one has agreed with you that it should be added to the lede, and you should wait until there is a clear consensus on this page.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:25, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Everyone I speak to in real life regarding this issue agrees with me. It just seems to be those behind a screen who disagree. --Mozart834428196 (talk) 12:45, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: We do not accept hearsay. Find reliable sources.Charles (talk) 21:52, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Hold on a minute here. These sources are just someone's opinion. There is no set definition of the West Country in the bible or anything. It's just an idea, and, as an encyclopaedia, it is Wikipedia's duty to say that some believe that Herefordshire is part of the West Country. The way I advise it is not to say that is part of the West Country, in a factual manner, but rather say that some definitions include Herefordshire. That is the way that many encyclopaedias would handle this. I was reading the talk, there were some people who thought that Gloucestershire and Somerset weren't in the West Country. Some people's definitions were that extreme that they thought the West Country was pretty much the very tip of Cornwall. Yet Gloucestershire and Somerset are still included. I believe that Gloucestershire and Somerset are in the West Country. I believe that pretty much all the South-west is in the West Country. However, I also believe that Herefordshire, in the West Midlands, is also in the West Country. --Mozart834428196 (talk) 11:43, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: This is where you are wrong.  You say that " as an encyclopaedia, it is Wikipedia's duty to say that some believe that Herefordshire is part of the West Country."  No, that's wrong.  Please read WP:FRINGE: "Because Wikipedia aims to summarize significant opinions with representation in proportion to their prominence, a Wikipedia article should not make a fringe theory appear more notable or more widely accepted than it is. Statements about the truth of a theory must be based upon independent reliable sources. If discussed in an article about a mainstream idea, a theory that is not broadly supported by scholarship in its field must not be given undue weight, and reliable sources must be cited that affirm the relationship of the marginal idea to the mainstream idea in a serious and substantial manner."  Although there may occasionally be references to Herefordshire (but not Worcestershire) as being part of the West Country, those references are few and insignificant, and it would give them undue weight to mention them in the opening paragraph.  The wording that states that the area is "loosely defined" and "usually" encompasses counties in the South West is accurate and sufficient.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 13:30, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

text: PS re Worcestershire: The claim that the West Country is sometimes defined to include Worcestershire was added at West Country English in this anonymous and unexplained edit in 2011.  I've seen no evidence to support it.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:14, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Offline print encyclopaedias would include several views. --Mozart834428196 (talk) 17:48, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: ... if supported by reliable evidence.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:14, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Herefordshire and Worcestershire 

message: I reverted this change as it is an entirely unnecessary duplication of elements of the section that immediately follows it.  Of course there are different definitions of the "West Country", and the text explains some of them.   Ghmyrtle (talk) 13:30, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Duplication 

message: Sources seem to use the term "West Country trading ketch" to refer to a particular type of boat - but, I have not yet managed to find a specific definition anywhere.   If one can be found, it should be added to the article.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:10, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  West Country trading ketch 

message: An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirects :West England and :Western England has thus listed them for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 June 2#West England until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Jay (talk) 20:53, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "West England" and "Western England" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]]