Talk:Poi (performance art)

message: The last paragraph needs clarification it states: "Today, poi swinging is seeing wide popularity." Is this within Maori culture which is what the first two paragraphs deals with, or within New Zealand culture or globally? Htaccess 01:30, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Globally. adamrice 20:34, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  I can add some corroboration in that fire poi is quite popular at Warwick University in the UK. PeteVerdon 00:28, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Confirmation again. It's fairly popular in Sheffield, UK too. I know aeveral people that do it. --81.174.244.104 00:51, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Definitely globally. There are even people here in Taiwan who do poi and fire poi.--59.121.207.47 06:22, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I know nobody in the southern california area that even remotely knows what this is, or finds it interesting. sorry... really, nobody i know, whether at college, school, parties knows about this. i believe general public is an overexaggeration —Preceding unsigned comment added by Larrygoroundz (talk • contribs) 
fire poi is definitely thing along the west coast of Canada  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2407:7000:8250:5941:6C01:40D9:BC7C:D83A (talk) 02:37, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wide popularity where? 

message: I have reverted the latest edits. Although they were clearly well-intentioned, they failed the NPOV ("beautiful" = value judgment, even if I agree) test, were too sweeping (comments not true of all poi spinners, or even a majority), and would better be discussed in the firedancing article, since the comments could equally be applied to staff, fans, etc. I'd suggest something along the lines of "firedancers often infuse their performance with techniques from various martial-arts or dance traditions, including African dance, belly dance, capoeira, tai-chi, etc." adamrice 14:10, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  revert on 18 oct 2005 

message: A lot of recent edits have had NPOV problems or excessively conversational tone. I am trying to clean up. This is not a how-to guide but a general introduction. If you want to write a how-to guide, we've got wikibooks for that adamrice 15:24, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup 

message: Sorry for any lack of NPOV on my major edit of this article -- I must confess, I'm not particularly experienced in writing articles, and it's tricky when you're passionate about a subject.
My intention was, and still is, to provide a more enlightening entry for Wikipedia. Previously, this acticle actually said nothing of poi in relation to juggling culture and it's place in modern society.
And incidentally, it was never intended to be a "How-to" guide. Simply a discussion of techniques employed by many people in what is generally a do-it-yourself hobby.
--Xanthine 15:34, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  An Apology 

message: Are you sure that the wording on the safety section is right? I would advise anyone to have a go on practice poi first, not encourage any novice to try fire spinning without someone more experienced there, and fire equipment in case.
: That section was put in by a crank (User:65.165.130.1) and has slipped under the radar since. Will edit. Thanks for pointing that out. adamrice 17:33, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  safety 

message: I think the article Fire poi should be merged into the fire poi section. The fire poi article is about the same size as the section in the poi article. Also much of the background information is relevent to both normal and fire poi, so the fire poi article will either repeat large ammounts of the poi article, or leave users uniformed if they do not then find the poi article. Poobarb 13:23, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. No point in that being a separate article. adamrice 15:35, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Agreed. (one place where me too posts are useful!) Htaccess 13:37, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Agreed. RomanSpa 01:04, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Agreed. Raerth 01:16, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Agreed. Fireguy 05:49, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Agreed. Quiddity 09:36, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger 

message: I have reverted the recent flagging link. While flagging is clearly related to poi and deserves mention somewhere, there's nothing in this article that leads up to it, and it's not clear to me whether the link that was provided is what flaggers would consider a primary resource. adamrice 13:18, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  flagging link 

message: The article leaves me wondering about how long poi have been in use by the Maori, how important/widespread use among them is, and how they spread to rave/juggling/etc culture... -- Akb4 18:31, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  history 

message: Where is 'poi' the plural of poi? In the UK/ROI we say pois. Njál 14:03, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've never heard anyone say "pois," nor noticed anyone using it in an online discussion. I'm in the USA. adamrice 16:44, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: poi is the plural of poi in Māori, which uses definite or indefinite articles and context to distinguish plural. Increasingly, when Māori words are used in New Zealand English, no -s is added to the plural. Kahuroa 05:16, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Well then in the UK/ROI you're wrong.--59.121.207.47 06:24, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plural 

message: Since when?  It means "to pound or hit" in Hawaiian, and last I was aware, the translation in Maori is "to hit" as well.  I suppose it could also refer to poi balls, but I don't think the word in general means a generic ball.  I could be wrong, though, and I don't want to remove that unless I have a good reason to, but could someone please verify the truth in that one? —Keakealani 08:04, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "(the word poi means "ball" in Māori)" 

message: I've never heard this phrase before, in connection with poi or anything else. Furthermore the note that attempts to define it fails to. Leading off the article with something as puzzling and obscure as this is ill-considered. adamrice 21:31, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Impartial art? 

message: (Paragraph herewith retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:B9_hummingbird_hovering")
Adamrice:  I know that your edits are well-intentioned, but they're also very idiosyncratic. I believe that as an introduction to the subject, they're more inclined to raise questions for readers than to answer them. adamrice 15:56, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Beauford's *retort*:  Idiosyncratic?  Please qualify.  Where is it set in stone that Wikipedia is just to be an introduction to a subject?  It is my considered opinion that this article requires some scholarly-sexing-up.  Do you engage an Impartial Art as discipline?  The mind processes and forges new neural connectivity when it is confused which is why Zen Masters use koans amongst other methods.  Are you familiar with NLP, hypnotherapy, trance~forms and meditation?  Juggling is a study in the resolution of bodymind confusion into an 'Artful Grace'.
I look 4ward to dialogue with view to establish Common ground.
Namaste in agape
Walking my talk in beauty
B9 hummingbird hovering (talk • contribs) 16:26, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Impartial Art

message: User 207.31.229.4 tagged this section with a  tag, but I'm going to pull it altogether pending some verification:
 Among the notable highly skilled poi spinners is Dae (Last name undisclosed), who is 
 not only talented at the art, but who wields them also as a weapon through which he 
 is capable of channeling electricity for added damage to his enemies.
If this isn't a comic book or gaming reference, then I'm a minor deity.  There's nothing wrong with such references being included, but they require a clear context:  in which comic book, game, or other medium does this character appear?*Septegram*Talk*Contributions* 21:44, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed From "Popular Culture" Section 

message: I have removed the obscure, unhelpful, and indeed duplicated references to something called "impartial art". It is not at all apparent that this term "cleverly associates juggling arts with Martial arts" nor is it clear that its "poignant point-counterpoint contrasts the inherently non-violent aspect of juggling disciplines"
The term may have appeared in a minor book published 15 years ago. But "impartial art" does not appear in this sense anywhere on Google, except of course in the Wikipedia article itself, and other articles derived from this! In other words, the only currency the term has gained has been generated by the unfortunate Wikipedia article itself.    Geronimo20 01:36, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well that was a waste of time. "B9 hummingbird hovering" has reinstalled that stuff and then added even more stuff, with no citations, which characterise Poi as primarily a martial arts discipline. Sigh. I've reverted it   -   Geronimo20 06:11, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Impartial Art" removed 

message: I agree with the reversion. Searching for the term "impartial art" on Google, I can't find any indication that the term is anything but original research on the part of an obscure book author. A bunch of hits do come up, but many refer to this Wikipedia article and the rest don't relate to martial arts or Poi. =Axlq 03:49, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Third opinion

message: Hopefully the stub on Poier's Adjustable Knot can be merged here, or else improved. See also comments at Talk:Poier's Adjustable Knot. Thanks, Jonathan Oldenbuck (talk) 10:18, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge 

message: As a New Zealander, I find the idea that poi is a form of juggling to be bizarre and mildly offensive, ditto for the use of the word "tricks". I would suggest that the article be moved to Poi (artform) or poi (performing art). Also, the article seems to have attained undue weight on the non-traditional forms that have achieved popularity outside New Zealand. I will propose the page as a candidate for a WikiProject New Zealand collaboration. Possibly it should be split to articles on traditional and non-traditional forms? dramatic (talk) 06:51, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. It's a crock. It's not quite up there with our current Eskimo controversy,  but traditional and meaningful activities are being lumped in with circus acts. Pisses me off no end. Kaiwhakahaere (talk) 08:44, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Perspective is everything; if considering number of practitioners, traditional poi forms were only the nucleus- and have long since been eclipsed by contemporary forms; while I would personally like to see traditional forms treated in greater detail, the focus on contemporary forms used world wide does not constitute undue weight.   Vitriolic proclamations of worth are counter productive to the purpose of this space- constructive discourse on the development of the article.   Comparisons to other venerated traditions as an aspersion is decidedly derisive.   This or any other Wikipedia article is not a platform for correcting social ills, attempts at social engineering, or political debate.   Attempting to work with the interest of others -instead of starting off at cross purposes- will have far greater success at achieving your aims.--Mavigogun (talk) 10:46, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Two things. First, the title. In no way, shape or form is poi twirling a form of juggling. I suggest moving the article to something like Poi twirling or Poi (performing art). Secondly, the comparatively small focus on Māori poi can be rectified simply by adding more information about it: a WikiProject Collaboration sounds like a great idea. Honestly though, if we get to the point where the article presents both forms in substantial detail, then we might be better off splitting it. What we'd call the two resultant articles is a different debate entirely. Cheers. – Liveste (talk • edits) 12:22, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

text: I concur regarding the title: while strictly in keeping with meaning and etymology of the word "juggling", its common usage does not have this connotation, nor (I believe) is the term widely used to describe the practice by most practitioners ("spinning" is the word I encounter most often).   At some point, perhaps for a disambiguation page, someone felt a need to impose the classification.Mavigogun (talk) 13:55, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

text: I've moved the article to Poi (performance art).-gadfium 01:49, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article title 

message: My wife (who grew up in ruatoria) has serious doubts about some of the material in the reference TKI - she says the purpose of poi was to develop dexterity for weaving, not weaponary, and doubts if we would find any early reference or image to a male using poi. (The source TKI uses, Jump Rope for Heart has an agenda to make poi sound attractive to primary schoolboys. I'm off to the library later in search of better sources. dramatic (talk) 19:40, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That TKI site bothers me, especially as it is an "initiative of the Ministry of Education" and I intend to query them about it. The TKI reference does not support the article where it is stated that poi originated (partly) "as an exercise of movements central to the use of hand weapons including the taiaha, and club-like patu, mere, and kotiate". Kaiwhakahaere (talk) 03:12, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I now have Ngāmoni Huata's book, and will also try and source an academic work by the likes of Elsdon Best or similar.  I agree that it should be queried. A desire to have poi as a mixed-gender school activity without opposition from boys claiming that it's "girly" is no justification for rewriting cultural history. I had thought we were beyond that sort of thing now. Mind you, giving a bunch of seven-year-old boys poi is a heck of a lot safer than giving them taiaha!dramatic (talk) 03:20, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks like your suspicions were well-founded, based on Karyn Paringatai's thesis I've just linked to. Snori (talk) 11:09, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  TKI reference 

message: I'm surprised that HOP isn't on the list here considering every poi spinner I've ever talked to has mentioned it or known about it. It's a long standing community that, yes, has a commercial aspect but so do others on the list. And since Poi Lessons is now seemingly defunct, I have added HOP and taken Poi Lessons off. - Kitanne (talk) 00:20, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, HoP is a wealth of knowlege, Perhaps have the link linking to the Lessons/Articles section of the site rather than just the Home Page thereby removing any possible issues people may have about linking to a site that has a prominant commercial section. Moka20 01:21, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Does anyone have any objections to my suggestion for linking to the lessons/articles pages on Home of Poi? If no objections in the next month I'll add the link to those pages. Moka20 06:47, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Home of Poi: Round Two

message: I've revised the general and modern poi introductions to make them a bit clearer. In the general introduction I tried to clarify that 'poi' can refer to both the performance art and the tools used for it. In the modern poi introduction I tried to show that traditional and modern poi are both practiced today, give a high-level overview of some of the differences, suggest places where people might see it performed, and emphasize the community element.
Given that community teaching is a major feature of poi, I'd like to add links to some of the popular learning forums (under External Links). If there are no objections, I will add links to the tutorial areas of Poi and Friends, Home of Poi, and Playpoi. Are there any other community-driven poi sites that would be worth listing for readers who want more information on poi?
Wordscratch, 3 August 2011  —Preceding undated comment added 03:22, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clarifying the introductions 

message: Needs etymology of word poi. Gordon410 (talk) 15:51, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etymology 

message: It would be good to include a clear image of poi (equipment). Current ones are useless, nothing can be seen on them. Setenzatsu (talk) 18:42, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. I found this image of traditional Māori poi equipment and have added it to the article, along with some other images that may provide a bit more context and clarity for the section topics. AtticusX (talk) 22:28, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Poi equipment image 

message: I would love to include Lady Shaka's use of poi at her Boiler Room set because I feel like it's an interesting example of modern usage, especially one with such a large international audience. Would a "Modern Performances" or similar section be appropriate? I'm surprised that there's no mention of Poi E or Te Matatini either, so those might also be good additions. Alternatively if this section is too sparse for inclusion, I could try and find a photo with the appropriate copyright for use? AtticEdit (talk) 03:50, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lady Shaka