Talk:LGBT themes in video games/Archive 2

message: What about that newfangled Bully game? I'm pretty sure there's homosexuality in there. :D
:Yup, it's there, and I added info on the Over the Rainbow achievement.VatoFirme (talk) 06:45, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I would like to bring people's attention to the fact that this information is now missing from the article. Wickedjacob (talk) 23:33, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It was moved to List of LGBT characters in video games, a content fork. Diego (talk) 07:02, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: gotcha.  thanks.  Wickedjacob (talk) 07:59, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: bully?

message: The article says: "It appears that the first game designed by a transgender person was a racing computer game in 1978 titled Wheeler Dealer and it was for the Apple IIGS." This can't be right, as the IIGS didn't exist in 1978. There must be some mistake here; my guess is that the date is wrong. Ben Standeven 06:43, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems I was wrong; according to MobyGames: "Wheeler Dealers (1978), published by Speakeasy Software. Apple II only." Of course, Dani Berry was still a man then... 76.215.118.137 (talk) 05:03, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  First game made by a transgendered person. 

message: :Image:GuyBrushCrossDressing.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot (talk) 14:44, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:GuyBrushCrossDressing.gif

message: :Image:PhantomOpera.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 16:28, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:PhantomOpera.gif

message: Just unlocked the Birdo trophy in Smash Bros. Brawl.  It describes Birdo has having an "indeterminate gender", and that some say it wants to be called Birdetta - pronoun used to describe Birdo is "it".  Added to article.VatoFirme (talk) 06:45, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: By the way here's one link for the SMB2 instruction manual: http://jarcas.dreamhosters.com/rdocs/Super_Mario_Bros_2_-_Manual_-_NES.pdf, 
although this isn't the original one - the sentence "He would rather be called Birdetta" has been censored already in this version.  I will keep searching for a scan of the original copy but this should help for now.VatoFirme (talk) 06:50, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay and p.s., I noticed an attempt to change the wording from "transgender" to "thinking he is a girl" was reverted, however the first edit was correct and the revert was not - the instruction booklet never uses the term "transgender", it literally says he thinks he is a girl.  Using the term transgender implies the creators knew the term and understood what it means and intentionally created a cartoon character as having a transgender identity, which I think is very presumptuous and problematic, and not likely to be true at all.  It also implies the manual contained the word "transgender" which it did not.VatoFirme (talk) 07:01, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sigh.  P.p.s.  Just wanted to add that in case my link to the manual scan confuses anyone, you need to know that Birdo's and Ostro's names were mixed up in the early English translations, and obviously Nintendo fixed the problem since then.VatoFirme (talk) 07:15, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You should add that footnote into the text - "(Birdo's and Ostro's names were mixed up in the early English translations, Nintendo has corrected the problem since.)" Benjiboi 18:51, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Birdo is transgender again

message: Granted, it's been a few years since I've played Shannara, but I don't remember anything that implied he was gay at all...is this an accurate reference or is my memory just failing me?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.198.241.62 (talk) 21:26, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shannara 

message: Wasn't it specifically Nintendo of America that had all those rules, and not Nintendo itself?  Belasted (talk) 01:52, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wasn't it NOA, not Nintendo? 

message: What, no mention of God Hand's first mini bosses? (Momus (talk) 01:26, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mr. Gold and Mr. Silver 

message: Should Harvest Moon be on this article,it isn't? If you play the japanese version of Cute,you can "Best Friend" a special girl. She has all the same dialogue as her boy version counterpart,all the romantic events are in,you pretty much get married,and you can have a child. In the japanese versions of Animal Crossing,Blanca,Saharah and Gracie are male. 98.14.15.12 (talk) 16:58, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Harvest Moon and Animal Crossing? 

message: Should Fox from Bloody Roar be included in this article? He was very effeminate and wore skimpy clothing that was quite clearly intended to be worn by women, or would generally be considered to be women's clothing.
DeeJayDragon (talk) 02:07, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fox from Bloody Roar 

message: While the subject is structurally sound, the writing is not. It is effectively an OR essay. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 02:47, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wipe the page? 

message: As this article stands, it is essentially a list of LGBT characters in videogames, with small amounts of original research commentary. The issues with the article highlighted above could be best resolved by simply turning it into List of LGBT characters in video games, and removing the OR content. (It would still need more sources, though.) Robofish (talk) 00:42, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Turn this article into a list? 

message: why is there no mention of that game in this article, i wonder ... 85.181.131.19 (talk) 23:37, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  tekken and grand theft auto 4: the ballad of gay tony 

message: Many of the characters listed here are not gay - they adhere to gay stereotypes, but are not gay.  Cross-dressing is not gay.  This list needs to be edited by actual gay people, not heterosexual teenagers who think that dressing in drag or acting like a woman makes a character gay.
````  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.11.68.77 (talk) 02:56, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: There's certainly some work to be done here, particularly when it comes to actually citing this information, but editors don't need to be part of the LGBT community to help fix this article. Someoneanother 17:42, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Incorrectly labeled characters 

message: As a gay gamer who has been playing video games since the 1976 Fairchild, I can say that I have been FAR from impressed with the representation of gay identity in video gaming. I can tolerate ridiculous stereotypical depictions of gay folk, but what is worse is the systematic censorship. Classifying mere gay identity as "mature/sexual/adult" is one way of enabling retailers like Wal-Mart to de-gay their shelves and content creators to de-gay their products, citing sales concerns. It is patently discriminatory to act as if being openly gay is "more sexual" than being openly hetero, yet people blithely accept this double-standard all the time.
While there isn't much news coverage to be found about this, the Christian Right is driving quite a bit of this. Their scare tactics routinely include trying to convince parents that gays are after their children. Having openly gay characters in video games, especially when they're not villains and fools, is a threat to their system of using us as pawns in their quest for power.
The Sims proved people wrong who declared "only hetero males play video games". Besides, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy to make products designed to appeal to the taste of one demographic and proclaim that others simply have no interest in gaming in the first place. It's quite convenient. How much of this dearth of gay content (and I don't mean token content) is due to the fact that most developers are heterosexual men?
So, please resist the urge to spin the history of gays-in-gaming as being much rosier than it is. Even The Sims titles censor us, making us "convert" people into homosexuals (a very offensive thing to force a gay person to do, let me tell you) and force characters into romantic interactions. A token non-foolish non-evil gay character here and there does not equate to an industry in which people like myself truly feel there are products that are non-narrow. And, frankly, the phrase "the pink dollar" itself is rather offensive. The money I earn is green. When I touch it it doesn't transform due to "the gay". Historically-minded folks may also want to remember that pink was the color for boys and blue was the color for girls in the 19th century. I would hope that developers will start seeing an end to heterosexism and homophobia as being more about creative freedom than cash.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.133.101.211 (talk) 06:20, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Refer to WP:SOAP and WP:NPOV.  Anyone attempts to "spin" this (or any other) article are against WP policy, including homophobia/heterosexism as well as pro-LGBT advocacy.  Let's keep this article neutral.  OzW (talk) 01:54, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please resist the urge to spin 

message: The notion that this character "is maybe shown to have strong homosexual tendencies" is not corroborated by the game's script.  The two instances in the script where Bridget (male) makes any request to do as much as spend time with another character are with Dizzy (female), which occurs in one of Bridget's endings in his scenario when he invites her to visit him at his parents' house, and with May (female), which occurs in one of May's endings when he asks her to teach him more about bounties.  Just as most male crossdressers are straight, effeminate/feminine/girly males are usually straight as well, and while it may not be appropriate to presume Bridget is necessarily straight, there is no evidence to suggest he is gay.  I am rewriting the entire excerpt on Bridget and moving it to the general 2000s section, as he is still notable for his non-normative expression. Kaelin Alvein (talk) 07:30, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Guilty Gear: Bridget 

message: I've attempted to clean up some of the soapboxing and make the article more NPOV.  If you have any questions or concerns regarding any of my edits, feel free to bring them up here for clarification/discussion. OzW (talk) 02:46, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Attempting POV cleanup 

message: I propose changing the title to LGBT themes in video games, since this article is not specifically about characters. Company policies, marketing, industry and Asian culture speak more about game makers and players than about game characters, and the article could expand its coverage on them. I've found a wealth of references to explore at the Issue 222 of The Escapist, with four main articles and lots of external links.
The LGBT themes title is used by other similar articles; if there are no objections or some other alternate title, I'll make the move. Diego (talk) 16:08, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: No commentary, so I'll make the move today. Diego (talk) 09:53, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: support it.Bread Ninja (talk) 10:01, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move to LGBT themes in video games 

message: http://alum.mit.edu/pages/sliceofmit/2011/10/10/mit-video-game-provides-lgbtq-friendly-content ▫ JohnnyMrNinja 07:08, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Good link. See also press coverage at Gamasutra Diego (talk) 07:33, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  MIT Video Game Provides LGBTQ-Friendly Content 

message: IP address 95.34.77.48 removed a large number of links on July 6, 2012.  I can't tell if it was vandalism or if there was some reasoning involved, but I thought a note should be made here to make people aware of it. Wickedjacob (talk) 10:07, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Links Removed July 2012 

message: :Category:Video games featuring female protagonists, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Liz Read! Talk! 11:45, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Category:Video games featuring female protagonists