Talk:Justice League (TV series)

message: Does anybody else notice that it seems like this whole wiki is a list of complaints against the creator's of the show?  Why did we even write this if we all hate it so much.--Gillespee 22:46, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed the page does have an overabundance of complaints. Some are viable though. I would like to form some kind of collaboration to improve this article.-
Finite 01:34, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

text: I don't think any of the complaints warrant removal as they all have been targeted at the show, but this sucker certainly needs a bit more positivity. I think more information about what it's praised for, about it's production, how accurately it portrays the characters, that sort of thing, would be helpful.--Finite 21:55, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Complaints 

message: I took the following out:
A so-called "Bat-Embargo" was introduced at the start of the third season when the series became "Unlimited" due to the creation of The Batman (2004), which prevented Timm from using any of Batman's villains or supporting characters. This did not, however, limit Timm and company too much and allowed the development of lesser-known characters. 
This is already talked about on the JLU page, and isn't really significant to the original Justice League series. If there are two articles, the differences should be respected. Simnel 01:13, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bat-Embargo 

message: Batman: The Animated Series/Animated Series Batman (character)
During the creation of of that "late" article I always stated that it was a draft or unproject. It took weeks until Bennon cleverly figured out what I was trying to do was a sandbox (which I didn't know how to do until now).
Now everyone can edit it with no time pressure and talk about what to do with the info when i's finally finished. I coul'd have created the sandbox in my own talk page, but I don't want anyone to assume I "OWN" the project. Feel free to erase, add and source stuff to improve it.--T-man, the wise 22:34, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Batman: The Animated Series/Animated Series Batman (character)|Animated Series Batman (character)]] sandbox

message: I'm in the process of watching JL for the first time, having just watched the complete Season 1 box and am now halfway through season 2. I confess to having only seen bits and pieces of the previous DC-based series (Superman and Batman) so maybe this is par-for-the-course, but is it worth noting that JL, for a kid's show, has some surprisingly adult references? For example the indication that Green Lantern and Hawkgirl become lovers, in one season 2 episode we see a woman in bed with a man, in the Metamorpho episode we see Metamorpho's girlfriend flirting with GL wearing nothing but a towel; there are occasional overt references to Wonder Woman and Hawkgirl being sexy, and in the S2 episode Maid of Honor Part One I was floored by an undeniable sexual reference (the partying princess telling Wonder Woman she wants to "go out with a bang - or several, if you get my meaning"). I'm not complaining by any means, and I know that one reason why the WB's DC animations have been so popular is because they appeal to both kids and adult viewers, but I wonder if JL marked any sort of transition. If it didn't and the earlier show's were like this, too, I'll have to check them out! 23skidoo 05:21, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: One more to add to the list (though if you're only half way through Season 2 you won't have seen it yet) is the intro to Wild Cards.  I agree with your observations, however our problem is finding them published in some kind of reputable source to avoid original research.  Maybe Bruce Timm talked somewhere about pushing the boundaries.  The jump to cable couldn't have hurt.--Gillespee 16:05, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Adult-ish content

message: The introduction seems to imply that there was five seasons in four years.  Is that correct?--Per Abrahamsen 08:45, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Five seasons in four years? 

message: :I have a ton of problems with this section, so I'm just going to reprint the whole thing, as it stands today, and make points that I think need to be addressed.  Overall, though, the thing that's most striking is that there are no sources whatsoever for any of the statements made.  The prose is well written, but there's gotta be at least some attempt to source it.
Kevin Conroy reprised his role as the voice of Batman, a part he had played since Batman: The Animated Series(TAS) (1992-1995), The New Batman Adventures(TNBA) (1997-1999),  and Batman Beyond (1999-2001). Because Justice League was set after the events of Batman: TAS and TNBA but before Beyond, Conroy pitched his voice to a range in between the voices he'd used in both series. It was harsher than the voice he spoke with in TAS but softer than in Beyond, it was similar in tone to the voice he used for TNBA. In addition, Batman's uniform was also redesigned. Much like the Beyond uniform, the pointy ears on his cowl were made much more prominent and heels were added to his boots. Also, a dark shade of violet replaced the blue highlights in the original TAS uniform.
:Really?  Where do we get that Controy intentionally changed the timbre of his voice?  
Tim Daly, who voiced Superman in his previous animated series, did some early recordings, but was ultimately unable to reprise his role due to his involvement with the short-lived remake series of The Fugitive. He was replaced by George Newbern, who was criticized by fans during the first season, feeling that his Superman lacked both the everyman feel and heroic authority that Daly brought to the role. Bruce Timm has said that this was more the fault of himself and his staff than Newbern's, and has openly defended Newbern. Since then, many fans have agreed that Newbern improved significantly during the second season, with a consensus that both Newbern and his predecessor Daly had merits in their respective portrayals of Superman. 
:This is entirely unsourced and weasel worded.  Who are "some fans", "many fans"?  Where do we get Daly's unavailability from?  If Timm was so "open" in his defense of Newbern, surely it should be easy to cite an instance of this defense.
Superman was initially redesigned to have a bit of a squint to his eyes and slight wrinkles that was also meant to make him look older, in addition to having a noticeable shining streak to his hair; he was redesigned to appear larger in physical girth than in his previous series. Fans did not like the older appearance and in the second season the streak was toned down to the point of almost disappearing and the squint was removed, in essence Superman reverted to his earlier animated series look. As an in-joke, Superman's Season One facial designs are used for an older Jor-El in the Justice League Unlimited episode For the Man Who Has Everything.
:Almost certainly true, but again, nothing is sourced here.  I'm a little dubious that fan wishes forced the hand of Timm and company to change their character designs, though.  Timm has shown frequent ability to stand up to fans if he really felt strongly about something, as is evidenced by DVD commentaries surrounding choices made with Hawkgirl.  Is it that Timm took on board fan comment, or is it just that the creative teams themselves decided that things weren't working with the original character designs?  I think, somehow, it's probably a little more complicated than just "fanboys didn't like it, so we changed it".  
Most of the characters retained their general comic book origins and continuity, with Wonder Woman being the notable exception. In the Justice League series continuity, the premiere story arc "Secret Origins" removing the plot of Diana's competition against her fellow Amazons to be the ambassador of peace to man's world, and she is referred to as a "rookie" superhero during her first encounter with the League. (Subsequent episodes touched on her attempts to adjust to her new world). Additionally, the character of The Flash was portrayed as somewhat younger and significantly more brash than his comic book counterpart, taking on a number of personality traits of Plastic Man, who provides a similar comic relief function in the Justice League of America comics. Major changes were also made to the Hawkgirl character. John Stewart's Green Lantern was also changed significantly from the civilian architect in the comic continuity to a hardnosed ex-marine for the show.
:From here on out, the section makes no sense at all.  It says that "most" characters retained their comic book roots, but then goes on to say that 4 of the characters were in fact substantially different from their comic counterparts.  Since there are only 7 characters, "most" in fact were significantly different.  Throw in the later claims about Martian Manhunter and the Batman/Wonder Woman and Hawkgirl/Jon Stewart romances, and, really, there was a significant attempt to forge new dramatic ground in the series.  Not to mention the fact that the Martian Manhunter is the essential cause for the origin of the Justice League — something quite at variance with any comic telling.  Powers basically the same?  Yes.  Broad brush similarities in personalities and origins?  Kinda.    But the details and continuing character subplots are wholly novel to this series.  Substantial work needs to be done here just to make the thing accurate, much less sourced and encyclopedic
María Canals was cast as Hawkgirl based on her Hispanic accent, which the producers felt would make Hawkgirl appear more foreign and alien against her team mates. The character of Hawkgirl became romantically involved with the John Stewart Green Lantern as the series progressed, while a relationship between Batman and Wonder Woman was also hinted by the show's creators, who disliked the fans' insistence on pairing Wonder Woman with Superman.
:Pretty sure that this statement about Maria Canalis is true, but it needs to be sourced.
In the comic books, the Martian Manhunter / J'onn J'onzz has a power called "Martian Vision" which has been shown both as a beam of pure force (an extension of the telekinesis that allows him to fly), and essentially the same as Superman's heat vision. Neither power was ever shown in the series, dropped presumably in favor of his phasing power, shapeshifting and telepathy. The Martian Manhunter was only referred to by that name in one episode and otherwise called simply J'onn.  
Although the series itself is animated in traditional 2-dimensional style, the opening credits are rendered in 3D with toon shading.
:I don't think that's entirely true.  Some of the stuff, notably in "Starcrossed" is CGI, if I recall my commentary correctly.  And the Watchtower exteriors themselves certainly seems like it's 3D.  I think this statement is too absolute.
CzechOut  ☎ | ✍ 04:31, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Many of those things are things from bonus features of the DVD sets. I know Superman's Season 1 design and Batman's redesign are mentioned and talked about. Conroy's voice is something that I don't think was specifically spelled out, it is obvious, especially when you watch an ep of B:TAS and then Justice League, you can hear the difference. Then again, I don't know if that kind of detail is necessary. Seems more like a mixture of "no duh" and "huh, interesting" like trivia. I haven't heard anything about fans reacting negatively towards Newburn in the first season, but I think the thing with Daly being unavailable is true (might have to check his page for the source). And the last point I think is okay, as long as it's just changed from "most" to "some." Anakinjmt (talk) 17:14, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Casting/character section. 

message: Main cast is shown in Actor-character order, when Recurring characters are printed as character-actor. --194.85.161.2 (talk) 10:33, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  actor-character or character-actor order 

message: This article says that "Justice League Unlimited" ran for THREE seasons, but the article for that show says it only has two seasons. Netflix also has only two seasons. Gatonom Nyan 22:09, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number of Seasons 

message: How can there be no music info on this article? The series has one of the best if not the best opening themes of all time. Can someone add info on who composed the theme and music for the series? Magegg (talk) 17:26, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Music and theme 

message: While it's good to have a list of who voiced the roles, I really felt there should be another page that explains the character story arc, appearances, love interest and villains like other articles that talks about cartoon characters and the depth that makes them different or human. Don't take it the wrong way but I understand the nightmare of doing another page like a newspaper. If I have to do it, I'll have to take baby steps before burning my hands for typing so much. If anyone's reading this, have a think and give it a chance since my ideas are kind of a dud. Thanks.
Johnnyauau2000 (talk) 14:45, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Each character has an article I think and there should be in each of those article a blub about how the character is used in this storyline. More in-depth analysis of the plotlines should be done on the Young Justice Wiki on Wikia which is linked at the bottom of the article. See WP:UNDUE and WP:OR. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 07:05, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Character page section.