Talk:Belldandy/Archive 1

message: One of Belldandy's most notable personality traits is her unwavering belief in goodness and the good in others.  This gives her a certain degree of naivete and also makes her, mentally, the weakest in dealing with evil.  While good and evil are said to exist in all beings, evil does not seem to have a place in Belldandy's heart.  Because of this, she is deeply hurt when two people who were close to her (her former mentor Celestin and her Doublet System demon counterpart Velsper) perform unspeakable acts of evil, leaving her in deep shock. Twice the Almighty wiped her memories so that the mental pain would not remain within her. The Almighty even wiped the public records concerning these two people, as though they never existed.  This shows how far the Almighty would go to preserve Belldandy's "perfection".  But personally I believe that this is a crime, in that it denies Belldandy a chance to be her on person.  The fact that others accept this mindwipe disappointed me.  Are they willing to preserve Belldandy's goodness to the point that they deny her the ability to make her own choices?  The answer, "It's for her own good!", is not an answer.  I suppose that Belldandy has become something like a beacon of light in her world.  If that light were extinguished, where can people look to?  I wonder... - Chameleon
unrelated note: it might be considered rude or biased to call the japanese phonetic ystem limited.
* Fixed as "difference in the". If someone has a better idea, go for it. Melodia Chaconne 19:14, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Every phonetic system is limited. I made a little change to the Holy/Blesséd sentence; for the better, I hope. Shinobu 05:18, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Analysis 

message: I am trying to tidy this section up a little, but there are a couple of points I cannot quite find the words for:
Later Berudandī evolved into Belldandy to make it sound more European and easier to be pronounced among the Japanese fans. Berudandī is how the Japanese fans would pronounce it: would Belldandy not be easier for the western fans?
About the only person Belldandy does not give the benefit of the doubt to is her sister Urd, whom she knows is a meddlesome busybody. This is too informally worded, but I cannot think of a good way to express the same idea.  It also expresses an idea slightly different from the truth.
Belldandy is also a trifle naive, being unused to certain Earth customs and often does not recognize a con-job until it's a bit too late. Is it often?  Aoshima pulled one over her, and Sayako has thought she pulled one over Belldandy on occation too, but Belldandy's nature normally turns things good.  Am I forgetting a lot of other situations, or is this line misleading?  It is also too informal for an encyclopedia. Elric of Grans 04:24, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Original Norse is Veridandi, which is a killer for an average Japanese speaker and hence was made Berudandi - which is just a killer for Europeans. Belldandy is a hybrid of 'Veridandi' and 'Berudandi'. Also, Belldandy sounds more European as its... umm... more English. Lots of cultural influences are present. :P --Cool CatTalk|@ 06:07, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleaning Up 

message: Akemi Okamura issue sounds about right, belldandy does sound different on some episodes. --Cool CatTalk|@ 18:12, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Must be that hyper-sensitive hearing you cats have. I don't hear any difference... -MegamanZero|Talk 18:23, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh listen to belldandy talking on episode 10 of the mini-goddess serries (Japaneese track of course :P). --Cool CatTalk|@ 06:03, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Voice actor 

message: :Image:Belldandy (Oh My Goddess!).png
hmm... This one is kinda fun... On the cover pic of the manga, Vol. 3, 7 got brown eyes(actually not very clear), most of the others are blue (or not using Belldandy's pic and one is all sepia coloured) But the pic Goddess with sunflowers in Vol. 10 got her eyes kinda brown.  I believe it is just a printing problem and the official eye colour should be blue. MythSearcher 01:31, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: In Colors, her eyes are purple in the first chapter, but blue in every other image.  I think that says it all. Elric of Grans 02:55, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd say it is just one of those artist nature that uses altered colour to improve the pictures occasionally. The official colour should be blue, that purple is kinda blue, too. MythSearcher 06:49, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I like my Belldandy with blue eyes. Nuff said. ^-^' --Cool CatTalk|@ 11:49, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Actualy she does have brown eyes in the quiz game. --Cat out 13:16, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I have an enormous archive of AMG images and Belldandy's eyes commonly vary between brown and blue, with occasional appearances of shades like violet. However by the rule of which is the most common (preponderance), then Belldandy's eyes are indeed blue. --Peorthmegami 06:31, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

text: She is a goddess and so she has free control over her basic appearance; this includes eye colour. I've always preferred a rich blue-violet which is close to purple.63.161.86.254 (talk)  —Preceding comment was added at 20:31, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  eye colour 

message: From the first chapter, the few coloured panels from the original manga is a mix of brown and blue (more brown than blue). However, Keiichi asked her to change her clothes not hair colour in chapter 2 and she did what he said, chanded her clothes by reconstructing the particles.  The picture showed during the change is a picture of her naked during the reconstruction.  Proving that she did not change her hair colour but changed her clothes only. (if she changed both at the same time with the same method, she would have to be shown bald, too.)  She did not provide extra explanation of any colour change of her hair and Keiichi did not ask or focus on it.  I went through the later volumes(which should be after the change), and all the colour of the front pages which should be showing her with brown hair gives the same blueish brown for at least volume 2 and 3.  This should be enough to prove that to be just a printing problem due to the colouring of the original script being so dated. In volume 4, the colour took a shape change and a lot of lighter colours were used instead. MythSearcher 09:07, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hair colour 

message: In the article the Author makes this statement:
She is also rather self-reliant, in a sense. She will not tolerate people interfering in a situation she already believes that she has control over, although this often causes her to respond in a mild statement.
What scene in the manga or anime illustrates this statement?
: Good point. I have no idea where the author got this from; after reading the entire manga (and scanlating a good part of it) plus watching all the animes, I'm still hard-pressed to recall any instances supporting this statement. I'll edit this out until the author defends this statement as I believe it is misleading (especially the "will not tolerate people interfering in a situation...") --Peorthmegami 06:13, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Example needed 

message: The liner notes to the AnimEigo release of the OAV implies that the romanization "Belldandy" came from the original creators, not AnimEigo.  See: http://www.animeigo.com/Liner/OMG.t  Also, the written form "Belldandy" makes its first appearance on the business card she hands to Keiichi in the first chapter of the manga (Ah! My Goddess Complete, volume 1, page 7).  I have changed the article to reflect this. Robaato 17:49, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The origianal manga got a lot of references in colour posters and such.  I see no problem in the romanization, it is used by the creator. MythSearchertalk 14:21, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, I have no problem with it either. And I have found a number of references on how it came about. :) I'm just curious - the letter would be a cool addition. - Bilby (talk) 14:29, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There is this one unconfirmed info on the Japanese wiki stating the Bell means beautiful in French and it is why the creator used it instead. MythSearchertalk 18:43, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks! That would be worth checking up. Not sure that I would agree with the claim, but that shouldn't be a concern if it is supported in an RS. :) - Bilby (talk) 22:49, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

text:  Not a problem.  Sorry I've been a bit absent to refer to it.  I found the issues and scanned them in if anyone wants to see them (not sure where I could put them up).  I'd say, absent anything from Fujishima-sensei, himself, Smith is about as reliable as we can get.  Izuko (talk) 12:45, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  On the origin of the "Belldandy" romanization 

message: *Is there a DVD cover with Belldandy and Holy Bell? If so, it should be used for consistency. If not, forget I said anything ^_^ JuJube 23:20, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article picture 

message: *Belldandy was voted the second most popular female character in a Newtype Japan poll.  -Malkinann (talk) 01:21, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: * Thanks for these - especially Susan Napier's book. I hadn't read it before, but I picked up a copy today and the discussion of Belldandy was excellent. - Bilby (talk) 14:51, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Reception/Development resources

message: I found a few references - one of which I loved reading - so I have restructured the article a bit. The problem was that the new material couldn't fit, as the article was a tad too much from an in-universe perspective for it to fit in the old structure. I stole the basic structure from Orochimaru (Naruto), as it is an FA, which I figured suggested that the structure they used worked. Anyway, I've added some more references, and I'll go through the rest to see how I can expand on the other sections as I work my way down the article. (btw, I loved the description of Belldandy from Perper). - Bilby (talk) 10:18, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup and stuff 

message: OK I have access to both anime and manga. So what elements do you think I should add to the article? -- Cat chi? 21:20, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've put a couple of fact tags in the article - could you please chase them up? -Malkinann (talk) 06:57, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I might be able to do some of them - I grabbed the first Manga today, and I'll add everything from there. And then I'll see how I go at getting a few more. - Bilby (talk) 06:59, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I added some refs. -- Cat chi? 08:58, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks! - Bilby (talk) 11:29, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is significant 

message: It doesn't quite seem to be the norm with anime articles, but is there any hassle with combining the references with footnotes? Normally (in offline publications) I use harvard inline references to handle page numbers, as in "Bob said that it was ok" (Alice, 1999, p25), but they seem rare on Wikipedia, and do tend to clutter up the article for people who aren't used to them. Alternatively we might have separate footnotes and references, as I've been doing at Turing test - but that was the format already being employed there, and it seems very different to the other anime articles.
It all seems a tad odd to me: I'm so used to inline references (in my discipline you won't be published using anything else) that alternative approaches are a tad alien. :) - Bilby (talk) 07:38, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Once a format is employed in the article, that is the one that should be kept per the general Wikipedia MoS and guidelines regarding referencing. For most anime articles, and really most articles in general, footnotes are the most commonly used.  Harvard Inline I usually only see in the more scientific, medical, etc type articles where most of the editors are ones who are used to using it in their professional lives, such as the one you noted above. It also does not tend to work well for most anime articles as many of our sources are online, which is better presented using nice, neat footnotes using the  template. I believe mixing styles is generally discouraged and will usually have to be fixed if an article is going to be taken to FA level AnmaFinotera (talk) 07:56, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Even at GA level mixing styles is forbidden.  (Case in point being Punk ekk's GA reassessment.)  I'm wondering how, if you're using a book multiple times, with different page numbers, you would do that best using the WP:REF format?  I mean, should it be like in Great Barrier Reef, where the book's full title is copied out labouriously each time using a cite book template? -Malkinann (talk) 08:09, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, you would use cite book each time if you are using footnote styles, though I have also seen people use cite book for the first, then for subsequent using a shortened for of author last name, pub year, and page number.  That is shown in the WP:REF section on footnotes. I personally prefer to just use cite book each time, since I don't like making people hunt for the first use to find the full information.  It realyly isn't that laborious, cause Copy/Paste is your friend ;). For example, see List of Tokyo Mew Mew characters (a list I'm currently working on). Its only 7 volumes + a 2 volume sequel, so as you can imagine, each volume is used multiple times for different page numbers. While working on that, I actually have a text file with the refs for all of the books. All I have to do it put in the page numbers. :) AnmaFinotera (talk) 08:15, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That might not work well. Each chapter of the manga can be referanced with three different ISBN numbers. See List of Oh My Goddess! manga chapters. Should all three be referenced? -- Cat chi? 09:00, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I wasn't thinking of mixing formats, so much as working out a standard for this article that would allow page numbers. I guess based on AnmaFinotera's suggestion footnotes are the best approach. I'll cite the same ref a few times if needed to distinguish between page numbers, but share the footnote if there is no change. This also permits comments to be added where warranted without damaging the flow, which would be nice. In IS we don't use footnotes at all, but in philosophy we did, and I kind-of miss them. :) The three different ISBN numbers sounds problematic, though. :( - Bilby (talk) 11:26, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: They are used in history and religious studies as well. Took awhile to get used to it when I was used to good old APA for most of my educational career, but I grew quite fond of them once I got used to it. Keeps the text so much more free flowing. :) AnmaFinotera (talk) 14:07, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

text: No reason it won't. Pick one version and use it. It isn't the first to be reprinted. Fruits Basket's chapters, for example, could be referenced with either the individual volumes for Tokyopop's new "Ultimate Collection" versions in which 3 vols are combined into one. Most people use the individual. Basically, use the version you have on hand, being sure to include the release date (and maybe edition number if they have them) differentiation which one is being used. AnmaFinotera (talk) 14:07, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Footnotes 

message: Are we really sure we need that many pictures in the "Depictions" section?  I'm a bit concerned that it breaks WP:NFCC, especially as some of the intermediate stages aren't even mentioned in the text of the article.  I think we could get rid of :Image:Belldandy (Manga) cropped - v1 p42.png, :Image:Belldandy (Manga) cropped - v3 p5.png, and :Image:Belldandy (Manga) cropped - v29 p77.png, unless we can find other articles on her depiction. -Malkinann (talk) 05:23, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. I added them all, as it seemed like a good idea at the time, but I keep thinking that five is too many. :) Three is much better. Something from the first book makes sense, so either the first or second image should be kept. First if you think that the first chapter is wise, second if it makes more sense to show her as she is normally depicted (rather than in full Goddess mode) - both fit the reference. The last one, from Beautiful Name, I added because it is the most recent depiction released by Dark Horse, but given that this is a moving target it might make sense to kill it, as you suggest. That drops it back to three - initial design, something intermediate, and something that is almost the final style, (The Goddesses' Greatest Danger), which has the advantage of being referenced. I'd toss in something from Childhood's End, as that is referenced as the "established style", but I don't have a copy, and would only be ok if you think four makes sense. (I'd rather not kill Turkey with all the Trimmings, as that is so plainly an intermediate stage that I think it serves a purpose, but will happily if you disagree on that). - Bilby (talk) 05:54, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It occured to me that the last image wasn;t needed - we both thought it was worth deleting, so I killed it now. :) I'm not sure which out of the first two should be killed, so I left both in for now, but I lean towards the first. - Bilby (talk) 06:01, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not so much "worth deleting" as "we don't talk about it, so it doesn't have a strong case for fair use".  I'd be inclined to keep the first picture rather than the one from the second chapter, as it has her headscarf (useful for comparisons with the YUA character and the other pictures) and it is the first picture of Belldandy. -Malkinann (talk) 11:17, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair enough. The second picture makes for a better comparison with the third and fourth, but an image from the first chapter trumps that. :) - Bilby (talk) 11:30, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pictures 

message: After the comments from the peer review and other suggestions and fixes, I figured it was about time to nominate for GA. Hopefully it wasn't premature. - Bilby (talk) 06:43, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  GAN 

message: I've removed: "Oddly enough, when the translation took place, the outcome reflects the character herself, as Belle means beautiful and Dandy means fair in old english.  Fair being a means to describe large amounts of beauty." from the page for now. The only source I have found so far that reflects it is on a forum. It is a good line, I think, but it does read a bit like OR. Given that teh only claim being made is that the parts of the name can be interpreted in this way, is it reasonable to source the "Belle means beautiful" and "Dandy means fair" parts in order to justify returning it? If it made a stronger claim, such as "Belldandy's name comes from 'Belle' ..." then I'd say no, of course, but the weaker claim is just a tad harder to determine. - Bilby (talk) 23:43, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: OR or simply hoax.  The translation was found on the Original Japanese version on Chapter one, on Belldandy's business card, thus if the above is true, it must have a source directly from the author himself but it is never mentioned in any official sources, not in the manga, AMG Colours or even any Japanese fan sites that always contains more trivia than you want to read. MythSearchertalk 07:58, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No problems, then. :) I think it was intended more as a personal observation, and it is interesting how the transliteration process came up with that name, but without a reliable source for the statement as a whole it is probably going to stay OR. - Bilby (talk) 22:26, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Meaning of "Belldandy" 

message: Why the heck there are links in the "External Links" sections that are not related and even give an access error? for god sake!!!
I tried to submit a link to a full featured Belldandy website and it was quickly removed...
How stupid can this page be in particular and wikipedia in general?!!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.108.92.176 (talk) 23:20, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unrelated Dead links on external links?!!!! 

message: According to the liner notes from the Animeigo 1990s lasedisc versions of AMG, the Oh My Goddess name was a strictly English convention. The OMG naming came about in translation sessions with the creator, Kosuke Fujishima, when a Animego staff member pointed out the similarity between the AMG name and the English expression "Oh My God". Fujisama liked the transliteration to Oh My Goddess and allowed or asked the company to use that title in the American versions of AMG. Just an observation on my part. --Jeremy ( Blah blah...) 07:20, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The main article already got this in it. MythSearchertalk 08:04, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  AH vs. Oh 

message: And I am surprised that no one even tried to do a simple source check in all these discussion? source 79 is link dead when I click on it, with 51 being a shared source from above, which made it hard to check which part of the source it is talking about.  The above part in personality that I left a fact tag is also not quite easily found in the cited source in the back. MythSearchertalk 02:48, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: 79 was apparently alive and well in June, however I've added the archive link for it. I don't understand your comment about 51? -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 02:52, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I did not delete it since I used the google cache and know what it is talking about.  51 is a source shared and is a whole book, thus I do not have the means to check that(meaning someone else need to check it) MythSearchertalk 02:58, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a paper, rather than a book. I've got it here. btw, I was thinking of changing over to a reference section and footnote section, rather than the combined refs/footnotes that we have now, as per National War Memorial (South Australia), so that the references are clearer and we can easily add quotes if something is a tad contentious but not readily available. Is this something someone would object to (in which case I'll happily continue with how things are now). (We did have an erialier discussion on this, but I don't recall that it came to a decision about format). - Bilby (talk) 03:06, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's only been a day, so those with problems with this idea probably haven't had a chance to comment. But as it is likely this is something only I care about, (I'm fond of referencing formats), I'll change it over so I can start adding quotes, which should help with issues raised above. If there is a problem, just say so here, and I'll change it back myself. - Bilby (talk) 00:07, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I rather hate that particular form of referencing, finding it fair high useless as a reader; and as I can really see no actual valid need nor reason to use it here, I object. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 00:57, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I also find it annoying to use when I'm reading - its annoyingness can be somewhat mitigated by the use of , as in Charles Darwin.  If I was using it myself, I'd be somewhat afraid that the reference list may be deleted or partially deleted somehow, or in good faith merged with a further reading section. --Malkinann (talk) 09:51, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair enough - it is why I raised it here and wanted to see other opinions :) Personally, I prefer it, but then it depends on what you are after. I like to have a list of individual refs to check of about 20 or so, rather than a huge list of 80 with those 20 spread through them, where I need to dig out the individual ones. But then I use harvard in-line style when writing outside Wikipedia, and the footnotes model is as close as we get. But it does make it harder to check an individual ref in line, as you need to look in two places for each one. (As an aside, it was theCharles Darwin that model I had in mind, but I'm happy to defer to other opinions). - Bilby (talk) 10:14, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I guess it's partially what you're used to.  Reason why I mentioned the Harvard citation template was because I find it mitigates the annoyingness when it's used and the article on the National War Memorial doesn't use them, so I thought you might be unaware of the template. --Malkinann (talk) 20:31, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Source check