Talk:Mainland China/Archive 1

message: In the article it writes "It also usually excludes the two Special Administrative Regions administered by the People's Republic of China: Hong Kong and Macau...".
As far as I know the only occassion where the term mainland China covers Hong Kong and Macao is the Mainland Affairs Council (MAC) of the Executive Yuan of the ROC, which also handles Hong Kong and Macao affairs, through its Hong Kong Affairs and Macao Affairs offices. But it has different treatment with the affairs with the mainland, and with Hong Kong and Macao affairs, on immigration and travel, movie products, investment, and academic qualifications and exchange (please refer to the regulations on mainland affairs and on Hong Kong and Macao affairs). In the wordings in this page, for instance, "大陸地區人民" and "香港澳門居民", and "本辦法依臺灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例第十八條第六項及香港澳門關係條例第十四條第四項規定訂定之" clearly show that the MAC does differentiate people from mainland, and people from Hong Kong and Macao.
In all other usage Hong Kong and Macao are often not consider part of mainland China. In Hong Kong and Macao the term "大陸" (literrally meaning "the big land", "the mainland" or "the continent") has been used before the transfer of sovereignty to refer to PRC's territories (excluding Hong Kong and Macao). The usage remains the same after the transfer, although 內地 ("the inner land", equivalent with 大陸 in its meaning) is getting more common. The mainlander article also reveals that in Laos and among Laotian people in Canada the term "mainlander" (big land) is used to refer to Chinese people who are not from Taiwan and Hong Kong.
Therefore I would say the usage of mainland China to cover also Hong Kong and Macao is indeed rather rare. — Instantnood 08:21, Feb 5 2005 (UTC)
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Huaiwei wrote "Actually there isnt exactly just a case of two people. I happen to hold similar views with Jiang on this one, as is the case in many other pages with similar topics. The term "Mainland China" does indeed occasionally refer to the whole of the PRC's jurisdiction, and is increasingly a term favoured by people in the PRC when refering to topics associated with Taiwan, because to talk about the PRC would refer an entity which includes Taiwan as far the the PRC is concerned.--Huaiwei 07:40, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Scope of the term mainland China

message: (In a nutshell) The article says "mainland China" is an informal term, and it usually excludes Hong Kong and Macao. Both are inaccurate. "Mainland China" is a formal and official term used by the PRC government, as well as the governments of Hong Kong, Macao and the ROC. The term excludes Hong Kong and Macao in almost all occassions, with very few exceptions. This is elaborated at the section above.  — Instantnood 14:48, Mar 11, 2005 (UTC)
:So long that there remains occurances of the term "mainland China" as equating to the People's Republic of China, whereby it is not always clear if it includes or excludes the two SARs, then the term "usually" is not factually wrong. Yes it is a common reference, but it is not all-encompassing.--Huaiwei 15:10, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The term "Mainland China" may be used occasionally in governmental speeches, documents or in the press, but it is not sufficient to proof that they are official terminology which can be used in liue of the "People's Republic of China", for example. Indeed, the term, which has had informal roots, has gained favour to refer to the Beijing government from the Taiwanese more because of political sensitivities in the choice of words than its legitimacy.--Huaiwei 15:10, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

text: Simple. Is "Mainland China" the official name of the "People's Republic of China"? ;)--Huaiwei 12:35, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Factual accuracy of the article

message: It seems to me that the China's political PR team is at work here.  The fact that Taiwan is a distinct, self-governing, independent nation is being blurred and minimized.  I always thought Taiwan was a separate country.  It's got its own flag, stock market, currency, embassies in various other countries, government, Olympic team, etc.  If China and Taiwan were one country, how could they have separate flags, distinct markets, different currencies, and different embassies within other countries, both a communist and democratic society, etc!?  I don't know who's in charge of these boards but clearly, the fact that Taiwan is a distinct, self-governing, independent nation is being clouded and covered over by a few editors. (added by 70.242.208.89 at 23:41, Mar 18, 2005)
: Taiwan does not consider itself an island country as it still officially considers itself the Republic of China with dominion over the mainland area. China and Taiwan are not "one country" as you say but rather, each of the respective governments claims the other as part of their territory. That's why it's complicated. Though Taiwan has its own Olympic team, what happened when it won gold medals in 2004 illustrates the dicey situation (August 26, 2004, Taiwan wins first-ever gold, Associated Press ):
:: Chen Shih Hsin won Taiwan's historic gold in the women's 49-kilogram category, with Chu Mu Yen clinching the men's 58-kilogram class, sending Taiwanese fans delirious. The medal ceremony was more sober -because of its sovereignty dispute with China, Taiwan is not permitted to use its actual flag and anthem in international competitions. Instead, Chen and Chu had to watch as a more generic Taiwanese flag, featuring the Olympic rings, raised to the tune of the Song of the national flag. 
: Fuzheado | Talk 05:25, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: PRC's political PR team / Taiwan as an independent State

message: Professor Fuzheado, I know that PRC still claims all of China, particularly Formosa/Taiwan, its "renegade province". But does ROC still claim the mainland, in addition to what it actually controls? I thought they abandoned that claim long ago.
On the other hand, I recall that the leader of the world peace organization I'm involved in (the Unification Church) said that he advised the leader of the government on Formosa to:
#Give up the claim to all of China, just claim Formosa, et al. - the part they de facto control; and,
#Stop using the name "Republic of China" (maybe pick "Taiwan" instead)
But I never followed up on that. I suppose they ignored his advice entirely (this has something to do with the question of "which China" would be in the UN.) -- Uncle Ed (talk) 18:44, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)
*My understanding is that a sizable number of people living in Taiwan would like to do exactly that.  The problem is that giving up the claims to all of China gives the appearance to the PRC that the ROC ever had a right to make the claim in the first place, which then views it as a step towards claiming independence, which the PRC has threatened the use of force over.  So any claim to any name is frought with problems so they mostly don't make any. SchmuckyTheCat 19:14, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: (response to Uncle Ed) I am interested to know did the leader of the world peace organisation ever mention what should be done with Quemoy, Matsu, etc. :-D  — Instantnood 20:03, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)
Hold on an instant, before my brain turns to noodles... Are you saying that if Taiwan gives up their claim to the mainland, that the mainland will thereupon invade them? That's so nutty I'm speechless. ("Say it ain't so, Joe!") -- Uncle Ed (talk) 21:05, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)
*that's the extreme paranoid case. Giving up the claim is a reasonable step towards claiming "see, we want nothing to do with China, we're independent."  Declaring independence, of course, defies Beijing. By maintaining the claim, even if it's on crumbling fifty year old paper, the lie of an ongoing civil war in one country is maintained as well. The whole "one country" thing is ingrained in the heads of the leaders of the PRC. Nobody believes the lie, nobody really thinks Taiwan is going to rule China anymore than Chiang Kai Shek is going to rise as a zombie to lead the army that does it. But there the status quo is, and any deviation is seen as caving to Beijing on one side or declaring independence on the other.   SchmuckyTheCat 22:50, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Extent of claims

message: I have written the first draft and to date others have improve/edit/add-to all within the context of this topic Mainland China. The context usage of "mainland China " is from an old migrant POV in reference to "home- my town area, or my Country - China, the Mainland!". That is my understanding and corrects me if I am wrong! In the Geographical and Political considerations by wikipedians herein, there is some evidenced disagreements which can never be resolved <Taiwan or ROV etc> I wonder if such any modern political changes should be included with the context of the original usage by other oversea migrants who first coined the word "Mainland China" as referring to their own context.Morally Happy to Obligate  - Norman Oh 17:51, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Original Article POV 

message: Something about a Wikipedia article main title including "mainland" just doesn't seem right.  It doesn't feel right, it doesn't look right, and it just reeks of "Small Island" mentality (no offence intended).  People don't refer to the main body of the US as "mainland US", and in the UK the term "mainland Britain" is used typically by people living on groups of remote islands (hence the term "Small Island" mentality) in places like the Western Isles or the Scilly Isles to refer to "that place other than here" (the preferred term for the British mainland is "Great Britain" - this excludes all islands as well as Northern Ireland).  Listed in the article is the alternative translation "continental China".  The US excluding Alaska, Hawaii, Puerto Rico and the dependencies (sometimes called the "lower 48" states) are typically referred to as the "continental United States".  France and Germany are typically referred to as being on "continental Europe" (except in the UK, where those eurosceptics with the Small Island mentality refer to it as "mainland Europe".
Since it is more important to convey a meaningful translation than a literal one, would anyone object to adpoting "Continental China" to refer to PRC minus Hong Kong and Maca[ou], as a term that still fits the translation of the term used on zh: but doesn't sound so "Small Island"?  Chris talk back 21:32, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: As an English speaker I agree "mainland" sounds a bit literal and "small island mentality", comparing with calling Great Britain "mainland UK", or the Lower 48 "mainland US". Nevertheless the term has entered English for a relatively long period of time, and is now in popular use. Even the PRC government uses it. International English press uses it too, such as BBC, CBC, The Times, TIME Magazine, and CNN. In German the equivalent term is "Festlandchina" or "chinesischen Festland", and in Portuguese it's "Continente Chinês" or "China Continental". — Instantnood 07:07, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Continental"