Talk:Seoul City Sue

message: q: What happened to her?
a: I don't yet know. The USAF bombed the KBS radio station near Seoul in August, 1950 while she was coming on the air, but American POWs saw her in February, 1951, and she continued on the air for a time. 
I'm assembling material with which to add depth to the article. However, I'm stuck out in east Jesus, so anyone with better library access is welcome to dive into the references I've stacked up offsite.
Note To Workgroup: if anyone taking up the task of turning this article into a fully developed biography is in need of a photograph of Ms. Suhr, they should seek out a copy of the Shanghai American School yearbook, The Columbian, the most promising years being 1938-1941, and 1946-7. I've contacted the school by email, but received no reply.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cmholm (talk • contribs) 11:09, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've found a photo via an old news wire. Non-free, but the best I've got to work with. I'm still hoping to score on a yearbook, but even then I can't guaranty that her smiling face lurks within. Cmholm (talk) 20:34, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added that material to the wiki entry. Still gathering suitably free photos and more detail of missionary activities.Cmholm (talk) 21:49, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Initial Research 

message: There is a note for "Seoul City Sue" broadcast recordings in the special collections of the University of Tulsa library, http://www.lib.utulsa.edu/speccoll/collections/kvoo/index.htm. It would be neat if someone at the university could dub a copy. Recordings of broadcasts weren't subject to copyright in the US until the late '60's. However, according the the Library Of Congress, this is a grey area (large PDF), so either I or someone else would need to contact KVOO's parent, Journal Broadcast Group for permission to sample around 30 seconds (or more!) for public dissemination. Cmholm (talk) 21:07, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: First publication wasn't in the U.S., it was in Korea. Doubt North Korea had copyright laws. Someone who rebroadcasts a broadcast only gains a copyright on anything new that was added. Seoul City Sue should be free and clear for reuse, assuming anyone could get that recordings copies successfully, considering their poor state. DreamGuy (talk) 00:03, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You're probably correct, I doubt the DPRK had a rule for radio broadcasts in 1950. In the US, radio broadcasts before 1978 weren't covered by copyright, and can't be after the fact, as is nicely summarized here: http://www.radiolovers.com/copyrights.html. So, armed with the official Copyright Office text, someone should be able to march on in and - within reason - go to town with the recordings, if the tapes have hung in there. Whether the UT library still has a reel to reel player is another question.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cmholm (talk • contribs) 13:09, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

text: UT's fees for retrieving special collections text, graphics, video, and audio aren't too bad... unless you plan to "broadcast" them, in which case audio goes for $30/second of source material. Ick. Cmholm (talk) 02:35, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: A lot of archives try to make money off of broadcast/publication of their material, which is not how the law works. If you had the material in the first place it should be free to make copies after. The only question then is if you have to sign a contract saying you won't rebroadcast it and then if you want to break it... not sure someone can contractually obligate you to follow copyrights on something they don't actually own copyrights to. One of these years there'll have to be some test cases go through the legal system, because public domain doesn't mean anything if places tie the content up in contracts. DreamGuy (talk) 16:27, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: After some further research, I see that there's a distinction between "copyright" of the IP, and "ownership" of a particular physical copy... much like a book on my shelf. Having a copy, and having expenses to meet in maintaining their special collections, UT gets to set the terms by which they part with their copy. In any case, they seem to be interested in working with me.Cmholm (talk) 21:10, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Audio Recordings 

message: any idea what her sister's name was?  She is my third great aunt but I can't find out the name of her sister who took her to Oklahoma.  I find it interesting that her great nephew probably heard her propaganda when he served in Korea.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 32.176.88.20 (talk) 16:42, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The sister was Mrs. Lonzo F. (Ruth) Battles, of Hartshorne, OK, later of Carnegie, OK.  Cmholm (talk) 08:44, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

text: While on the subject, if Ms. Suh's extended family has a late '30s or '40s photo of her and/or her work environment in China and Korea that they'd be willing to license digital copies of to the Wikipedia, or can provide any additional information about her adult life, that would be super.Cmholm (talk) 10:26, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Family Ties 

message: The claims of Charles Robert Jenkins sounds very vague. Told by whom and exactly when and what was the context? Given the age of Anna Wallis Suh it is probable that she died of natural cases. Had she been "executed for espionage" this would have been publicised at the time not whispered to Jenkins somewhere.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.158.49.11 (talk) 20:56, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: To the best of my knowledge, the DPRK media hasn't reported on executions since the end of Stalinist-style show trials in the mid-50s. Foreign reports are based on rumor, which is all that Mr. Jenkins had to go on. As such, the cause of death for any citizen/resident of the DPRK to the present day cannot be verified. Please refer to Andrei Lankov's article on the broader subject in the Asia Times Online. Cmholm (talk) 09:32, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

text: The identification of Seoul City Sue is addressed in the entry. Please refer to the references. If you think the entry should be moved from 'Seoul City Sue' to 'Anna Wallis Suh', you're free to register and do so per :Help:Moving_a_page. Cmholm (talk) 09:32, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jenkins Claim 

message: :There she met and married fellow staff member Suh Kyoon Chul, thus losing her US citizenship.
I can't find any evidence that marriage to a foreign national would automatically cause the loss of U.S. citizenship. Did she renounce her citizenship? Was Korean law responsible, or was it an old U.S. law that I can't locate? 184.77.159.253 (talk) 02:10, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: That sentence is *probably* true, but not *specifically* documented. See Seoul_City_Sue#Nationality for detailed discussion, such as reference 52,  "Women and Naturalization, ca. 1802-1940", starting from paragraph 8. Prior to the Cable Act of 1922, American women took their husband's nationality upon marriage. Afterwards, the case seems ambiguous for those marrying Asians, who weren't permitted to immigrate or nationalize at the time. Note the supposition on the part of American authorities that Ms. Suh couldn't be prosecuted for her activities. I suspect "by the US" was unspoken. Whether the ROK could is unknown. Perhaps the sentence should read "thus probably losing her US citizenship", but not completely deleted. Cmholm (talk) 08:47, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Loss of citizenship? 

message: Is there a source for the paragraph of the Sino-Japanese War section which seems to be a first-person memoir of some sort?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.134.69.238 (talk) 15:47, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortunately, no. The user was unregistered, and I haven't yet been able to track down the author from the info given.Cmholm (talk) 12:41, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  First-person memoirs? 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 17 external links on Seoul City Sue. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?ti=0&indiv=try&db=ardeathindex&h=145475
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://content.ancestry.com/iexec/?htx=View&r=an&dbid=7488&iid=NYT715_5701-0588&fn=Ann&ln=Wallis&st=r&ssrc=&pid=21984038
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.newspaperarchive.com/PdfViewerTags.aspx?img=10459146&firstvisit=true&src=search¤tResult=2
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://content.ancestry.com/browse/view.aspx?dbid=6824&iid=NEWS-OH-CO_TR.1950_08_30_0001&rc=3045,3546,3133,3579;2555,4675,2671,4721;4126,4258,4227,4291;2906,5246,3024,5279;2582,5450,2689,5483;2732,5737,3201,5849;3278,5737,3590,5849;3669,5737,3981,5849;1417,6079,1590,6116;1611,6079,1697,6116;1719,6079,1827,6116;1900,6400,2005,6437;1715,6762,1843,6799;1865,6762,1950,6799;1971,6762,2056,6799;2855,6104,2960,6141;3761,6171,3890,6208;3381,6208,3467,6245;3758,6250,3858,6287&pid=498366465&ssrc=&fn=&ln=Seoul+City+Sue&st=g
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.captives-of-empire.com/wst_page5.php
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.kimsoft.com/korea/eyewit17.htm
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.kimsoft.com/korea/eyewit18.htm
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://content.ancestry.com/browse/view.aspx?dbid=51212&iid=News-TE-CO_CH_TI.1950_09_12-0009&rc=1430,238,1786,388;667,650,738,683;1055,900,1126,921;306,958,372,991;1846,442,1942,475;2109,442,2253,475;2277,442,2421,475;2987,133,3066,166;1801,696,1876,729;1242,771,1314,804;1311,946,1401,979;2036,1058,2111,1091;3353,1058,3447,1091;3324,838,3455,871;2801,950,2877,983;2438,988,2532,1021;1696,1200,1738,1233;3464,917,3535,950;2003,1242,2112,1275;121,1750,213,1779;694,2863,761,2896;778,2863,947,2896;944,3446,1013,3479;2208,6238,2285,6276&pid=498380809&ssrc=&fn=&ln=With+Us+Forces+Korea&st=g
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://content.ancestry.com/Browse/view.aspx?dbid=52292&path=1950.8.10.9&ln=Army%20Headquarters%20Korea&st=g&pid=498345993&rc=2222,929,2438,1037;1554,1046,1660,1079;1225,2883,1317,2916;445,3091,754,3237;478,3558,570,3591;892,3479,971,3512;1471,1267,1565,1300;1664,1375,1734,1408;2942,2821,3032,2854;1680,4633,1757,4666;872,5283,959,5312;1742,4779,1847,4812;1613,5029,1692,5062;1818,5208,1905,5241;3058,4004,3157,4037;3378,4291,3481,4324;3571,3704,3712,3783;2038,5062,2129,5095;2692,5154,2748,5183;3739,4333,3936,4362;3467,4358,3552,4387;3881,4475,3977,4504;4058,4475,4122,4504;3889,4616,3957,4649;3514,4725,3606,4758;2975,4754,3109,4787;3569,4754,3646,4787;3563,4754,3621,4787;3636,4754,3723,4787;3192,4904,3281,4937;3245,4979,3319,5012;3295,5054,3368,5087&zp=25
*Corrected formatting/usage for https://www.nytimes.com/2000/10/22/nyregion/zeke-manners-hillbilly-who-ruled-radio-dies-at-89.html?pagewanted=all
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://home.inreach.com/tc/page17.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://content.ancestry.com/Browse/view.aspx?dbid=1136&path=1950.8.22.1
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://content.ancestry.com/Browse/view.aspx?dbid=1136&path=1950.10.5.2
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://content.ancestry.com/browse/view.aspx?dbid=6439&iid=news-mo-chlcthe-thechlcnsttrbn.1952_03_08_0001&rc=192,1933,269,1966;2869,1462,3004,1491;4064,4933,4142,4966&pid=499228673&ssrc=&fn=&ln=Bill+Shinn&st=g
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060303170502/http://www.korean-war.com/Archives/2001/03/msg00010.html to http://www.korean-war.com/Archives/2001/03/msg00010.html
*Added archive https://archive.is/20130121074317/http://www.dcmilitary.com/dcmilitary_archives/stories/082500/869-1.shtml to http://www.dcmilitary.com/dcmilitary_archives/stories/082500/869-1.shtml
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080716015822/http://www.kimsoft.com/KOREA/eyewit.htm to http://www.kimsoft.com/korea/eyewit.htm
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 16:48, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018)