Talk:Ajam

message: I found this page accidentally while looking for a Wikipedia entry on Fouad Ajami. As a native speaker, I dispute the first couple of lines in the page that suggest
the word Ajam is used as a derogatory term in modern arabic. There is indeed a citation that I cannot dispute, but the citation is a working paper by the Cambridge Programme for Security in International Society (C-SIS) on "The Mindset of Iraq's Security Apparatus". Now I actually liked this working paper, but the views perpetuated, encouraged or even influenced by Iraq's brutal security apparatus is hardly an appropriate source to define the word! To my knowledge of the language, Ajam is indeed used to mean foreigners, strangers, "those who don't speak Arabic" and variations thereof in modern Arabic.
I have no doubt that some people, for instance the racist xenophobes in Iraq's ex-security apparatus used it in a derogatory fashion. The C-SIS working paper indicates that they referred to Iran as Al'adu Al'ajami (the Ajam Enemy) for instance. But perhaps a section on the misuse of the word for derogatory purposes is in order? As opposed as considering it part of  the definition in Arabic, which is the current state of the article. Any comments and/or objections?
--H.Perowne 20:55, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  On the literal meaning of Ajam in modern standard Arabic 

message: What is this for an anti-Iranian bullshit?
No Kurd on this planet call Iranians ajam, because Kurds are theirself Iranians, only Turkish/Arabic facists like this joke, who is spamming on Wikipedia!
Stop this bullshit!
--ShapurAriani 13:46, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is this for an anti-Iranian bullshit? 

message: Kurds reffer to Iranians as Ajam. As people of France are called European, Iranians are called as Ajam among Kurds as well as some other ethnicities. Do not remove text from wikipedia.
Mesopotamia 16:00, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Kurds call Iranians as Ajam

message: From several Kurdish Magazines(Govara Mehname) and Kurdish Wiktionary.
*Ecem in Mehname Magazine
*Ecem in Kurdish Wiktionary
*Ecem in Kurdish Academy,
*Ecem in Peyama Kurd Journal,
*The Kurds and the Caucasus, By Dr. Zorab Aloian (Ecem  as name for boys in Kurdish, and its meaning),
Heja Helweda 08:25, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: None of those sources prove that ajam (which has a very specific derogatory meaning) and ecem are the same. One of those links states that ecem is a boys name in Kurdish, as you've stated, and that it is of originally Persian and Azeri origin. SouthernComfort 09:27, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources for the meaning of Ajam(Ecem) in Kurdish Culture 

message: Here is some links for  Kurdish Latin Alphabet with Pronounciation,Kurdish Latin Alphabet. So Ecem is read like Ajam. Moreover among Kurds, this word isnot derogatory or insulting. Heja Helweda 17:13, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Links for Kurdish Latin Alphabet with Pronounciation 

message: HAHAHA. Im sorry, but I couldn't hold myself. I happen to be a native arabic speaker and Ajam doesn't mean "retarded", it just means someone who doesn't speak arabic, which doesn't necessary mean that he is retarded. It only means he has to take arabic lessons ;-) Jidan 08:14, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I read the article, reacted, and my father just stated the same point. He said it has the same conotaition as "foreigner". It was originaly stated as "mumbo-jumbo talkers", but lost the negative conotation quite quicly. --Striver 10:29, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ajam in Arabic means "retarded" - Nonsense 

message: What on earth is this?  How about using some Arabic sources to define an Arabic word for change, I don't see anyone using a Chinese dictionary or encyclopedia to define a Spanish word!
If in Persian the word has evolved to become biased and derogatory, that is not the Arabs’ fault.  Moreover, what is this bullshit about the source of the word Ajam عجم and Faris فارس?  How about checking out the sources in Arab books before making up Persian sources.
The word ajam عجم means ambiguous, incomprehensible, not clear and/or not understandable.  The word Mu’jam معجم (dictionary) in Arabic is called so because you list ambiguous words and explain their meaning; the verb Ta’jeem تعجيم (to dot the letters) was called so because it makes the letters clearer (it made it possible for non-Arabs especially to distinguish between similar letters).  The verb U’jim أعجم as in U’jim fi kalamihi أعجم في كلامه means that he does not speak good Arabic.
On the other hand, the word Arab عرب comes means “to understand, to express, to make oneself clear”.  You would say “a’rab amma fi nafsihi” أعرب عما في نفسه => he expressed what is inside him; I’raab إعراب, to make distinct and clear – to speak perfect Arabic.
The basic idea is that the Arabs are called Arabs because they speak perfect Arabic and hence understand eachother, the Ajam on the other hand are called Ajam because the Arabs do not understand what they say since their Arabic is not perfect.
This stupid idea about replacing the letter alif ا with ain ع is not valid because in other cases you use both alif and ain.  Besides, ain is NOT one of the prefixes or suffixes added to a word, there are certain letters that can be added to a word (meem, noon, alif, seen) not ain.  The folk etymology is an ethnocentric idea.
As for faris فارس (horseman – not night) it is derived from faras فرس, horse.  A horseman is called faris because he rides a horse and even a criminal can be a horseman if he is riding a horse.  It has noting to do with the word Fars from “bilad fars” بلاد فارس, which letraly means “the land of the Parsis”, the p was turned in an f because in Arabic there is no letter p – if there was then it would not have been changed.
I see this article very biased.
--Maha Odeh 06:59, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where the word came from 

message: I think this is a very educative article, and it is a shame that it has attracted so much abuse from people who haven't bothered to read its contents.
I think it could usefully be supplemented by a section on the Arabic word isti'jam, 'persianisation', the process by which control of the 'Abbasid caliphate gradually moved from the original Arab conquerors, who had no administrative tradition of their own, to suave, well-educated, bookish Persians, who used their knowledge of the administrative system of the Sassanian empire to run the Moslem world for the Arabs.
Djwilms (talk) 03:27, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Isti'jam 

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thread_title: File:Persian inscript-nast- farsi-khat e fasi nast..jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

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thread_title: File:Khaleej ajam.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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thread_title: File:Persian inscript-nast.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

message: The more likely term for that cat is shirazi cat, not ajami...small edit needed there.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.2.49.7 (talk) 23:30, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  ajami cat??? 

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I have just modified 5 external links on Ajam. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070930193216/http://qamoos.sakhr.com/openme.asp?fileurl=%2Fhtml%2F7074630.html to http://qamoos.sakhr.com/openme.asp?fileurl=%2Fhtml%2F7074630.html
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110403110948/http://www.hamshahrionline.ir/news-101174.aspx to http://www.hamshahrionline.ir/news-101174.aspx
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070927025653/http://static.namesdatabase.com/names2/A/J/Ajam.html to http://static.namesdatabase.com/names2/A/J/Ajam.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110403110948/http://www.hamshahrionline.ir/news-101174.aspx to http://www.hamshahrionline.ir/news-101174.aspx
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: New article (to consider adding to references): https://www.bu.edu/articles/2022/fallou-ngom-discovers-ajami-african-writing-system/ 76.190.213.189 (talk) 20:06, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  New article (to consider adding to references)