Talk:Victor L. Berger

message: American national biography says he moved to Milwaukee in 1881, not 1880. Anyone know the truth about this? Tfine80 00:24, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moved to Milwaukee 

message: Congress has the authority to refuse to seat an elected member, but I don't know where in the law this authority is described and granted.  A link to that statute would be helpful here, I think.  (I think it's in the same section that grants Congress authority to refuse to certify a State's electorial votes.)
If I find the information, I'll add it to the article.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.148.235.6 (talk) 17:44, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Congress' authority to refuse to seat member 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This article, and many other sources, list Berger's birthplaces as "Nieder Rehbach" in Austria-Hungary. Problem is, other than these references to Berger, I can't find a mention of a place named Nieder Rehbach. I wonder what place this is or was? --jpgordon𝄢𝄆 𝄐𝄇  14:52, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: If you are still interested in this, I believe I have the answer. Per House.gov, Berger was educated in Leutschau (Levoča), in modern-day northeastern Slovakia (an area that also had many Jews at the time, consistent with Berger's family). "Nieder" is German for "lower" (as in Lower Austria and Lower Saxony), making "Rehbach" the important part. About 6 miles from Levoča lies the town of Nižné Repaše, which is sometimes known in German as "Unterrepasch". "Unter", just like "nieder", is an indication of lower elevation (in this case lower than Vyšné Repaše). As such, its name translates to "Lower Repasch", just like Nieder Rehbach translates to "Lower Rehbach". The part about Romania was first added in 2005 (as Transylvania) without explanation, and there is no RS that agrees with this claim. Cilidus (talk) 21:30, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: More searching shows a lot of "Nieder Rebbach" connections for Berger, but that also seems nebulous -- and I find no other mention of "Rebbach" other than in connection with Berger. I've also found "Reback". I've found no actual documents. Very circular, I fear. --jpgordon𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇 01:02, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: My theory constitutes WP:OR and should not be accepted. I have also found the town of Nižné Ružbachy, which is likewise very near to Levoča. It was known in Hungarian at the time as "Alsó-Rusbach" (Lower Rusbach), and in German is sometimes given as "Nieder-Rauschenbach". The town of "Nieder Rehbach", with similar spellings, simply does not exist outside of discussions about Berger. I would consider both N. Repaše and N. Ružbachy strong candidates for the "actual" location. Cilidus (talk) 01:43, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: A third theory is the town of Nižný Hrabovec, which was known as Alsó-Hrabócz (silent H) at the time. As I have not been able to find any German name for the town, it is possible that "Nieder Rehbach" was an unofficial name used by Berger or by German speakers in the area. This could perhaps explain why there are no records of this name today. It is impossible to know for certain, and I have not been able to rule out any of the three options. Cilidus (talk) 02:10, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: It is a fascinating puzzle. --jpgordon𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇 05:00, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: The JewishGen Communities Database shows no results for Nieder Rehbach, Nieder Rebbach, Rehbach, or Rebbach. I searched for Leutschau, where Berger went to gymnasium because presumably that's in the vicinity of "Nieder-Rehbach". It produced 3 results: one each in present-day Slovakia, Poland, and Ukraine. This is certainly a mystery. I think some research in more contemporaneous records would be worthwhile. MarconiCheese (talk) 14:45, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

text: Hi - I wanted to offer some input as I'm pretty sure Nizne Repase is Victor's birthplace. I happened to stumble upon Victor in researching a bare branch of my family tree - the siblings of my great-great-great grandfather, Emanuel Berger - who was born in the town of Leibicz kenesfurdo, a few miles from Nizne Repase/Felso-Repas. His eldest sibling was Ignacz Berger, born 1829, who married a Cati/Gütel Spatz (dau. of Isak Spatz) in Kesmark(Kezmarok) in 1858. These people match Victor's parents as listed in his marriage record- though he lists his mother as Julia Spatz, rather than Cati. However, if you look at findagrave.com for Ignatz and Julia's grave in Connecticut, Julia's hebrew name is Gittel bas Yitzhak - matching with both Gutel and her father's name Isak. Moreover, the only child of Ignacz and Cati listed is Juda Berger, born Feb. 28, 1859 in Felső-Répás (now Nizne Repase). In US records, Victor's birth is listed as as Feb. 28, 1860 - so very similar, + it was common for immigrants to not recall their exact birthdate correctly. Lastly, while Juda appears to be a much different name than Victor Luitpold - Juda's corresponding Yiddish nickname is Leib, which was commonly Magyar-ified to Lipot (Leopold). Based on all of this - I'm almost certain Victor was born in Felso-Repas. Eliezerdescendant (talk) 20:13, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

text: This is fun! I've found mention of Romania in Berger's obituary in Vorwärts (published in Berlin, not to be confused with the newspaper Berger himself published). The obituary states that he was born in "Niederrehbach (Siebenbürgen, damals Ungarn)" translated "Niederrehbach (Transylvania, then Hungary)". The article also mentions that Berger visited his "homeland" in 1923, which "had now become part of Romania" (second-to-last paragraph). I'll add the citation to the article. Here's the link. The typeface is fraktur -- not entirely legible if you are only used to latin script. It's the second article in the second column. I think this newspaper article is probably WP:RS, although I'll leave the dubious tag for now. As for actually finding Niederrehbach in a source not about Berger...there I have failed too. I note that "reh" means deer and "bach" means stream/river. Anyone else think it's odd that he studied at university in both Budapest and Vienna, yet left for America when he was 18? BananaCarrot152 (talk) 21:16, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone who could view a Wisconsin Historical Society microfilm might be able to clarify some of this.  --jpgordon𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇 04:24, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

text: BananaCarrot152's source is definitive enough for me, so I'm removing the  tag (along with fixing a dead link).  Also the suggestion that "Rehbach" literally means "Deer-brook" has proven fruitful.  The latter apparently translates into Romanian as "Pârâul Cerb", which is the name of a Transylvanian creek (ro.wiki link; en.wiki unfortunately just redirects to that creek's parent river).  My best guess is that Victor was born in a sufficiently rural location as to lack a formal placename (i.e., Niederrehbach was a descriptor instead).  Bernanke's Crossbow (talk) 19:32, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Birthplace 

message: Should we omit the middle initial from the article title? I don't see a reason to include it. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 08:59, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: , carefully review the footnotes (usually called references). You will see that reliable sources commonly use his middle initial or his middle name. That justifies the current title.  Cullen328 (talk) 09:11, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I figured that was probably the case after I posted this. Thank you. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 09:13, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should we rename this "Victor Berger"