Talk:Nachman of Breslov

message: Regarding "official sites" -- as stated on the Breslov page, there is no single leader of Breslov and therefore, no single official site.  I agree that a distinction should be made between Breslov org sites and useful links to various private pages, but no single site can be THE official one.  The "Breslov on the Internet" site is maintained by a Hasid from the Rabbi Odesser group.  The "Judaism with Heart" site is the site of the Breslov Research Institute, led by Rabbi Chaim Kramer.   I marked BOTH as official sites because both are.  This seems the best way to resolve the issue.  The portal breslov.com has links to a rango of Breslov organisations, from the World council to Rav Odesser pagesRooster613 13:38, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Please verify that the "Breslov on the Internet" site is maintained by who you said, because I just visited the site and it definitely did not do him justice. This means that Rabbi Israel Dov Odessers group has no representation! Being that according to all sources Rabbi Israel Dov Odesser was a master of the tradition of Breslov, while some say he (G-d forbid) went mad others maintain his well being to the very end and maintain that he was THE master of the tradition. Many may claim that he is radical, however this is in itself evidence to the decisiveness of his tradition that should not be ignored (G-d forbid) and definitely should be mentioned and examined!Na Nach Nachmu Nachmun (talk) 14:38, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

text: Well, it was maintained by a NaNacher back in 2005 when I wrote the above comment but of course, webmasters do change. Could be the current one is not the same person who founded the site.  Rooster613 (talk) 08:03, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

text: Na Nach Nachmu Nachmun, I have been to your site, nanach.net, and what do I find on the homepage?  An extremely nasty, petty and bikkering bunch of insults against those of us who are longtime editors here on Wikipedia.  Especially insulting to me since I CREATED the Na Nach Nachma page (so you can hardly call me "biased" against the mantra) and I also did a great deal to improve the Yisroel Ber Odesser page -- if you would bother to look at the history of both these pages, you would see that is true.  As for your self-promoting of your own website, it is hardly the "purest and strongest tradition of Rebbe Nachman" (your words) when its homepage attacks other Breslovers.  Rabbenu urged us to love one another, not start wars over who is the best or who has the most followers.  Rooster613 (talk) 10:17, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

text: Also, nanach.net appears to be primarily a blog site.  No offense, but blogs are not generally considered verifiable sources because anybody can write anything on them. Rooster613 (talk) 10:28, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: "Official" Breslov sites

message: A worthwhile book to read is "The Tortured Master" by Arthur Green, it discusses at great length the formation and evolution of Rav Nachman's views and beliefs as well as the concept of Tzadik Hador. In reading that above passage from "Rav Nachmans Wisdom" and also learning the concept of Tzadik Hador one could get the impression that there two contradictory teachings but in fact there not. In Rav Nachmans understanding even in a world filled with Righteous jews there would still be the need for that ONE soul who posesses a little more than the rest, as evidenced with Israel in the wilderness the sages comment that this generation was on the highest of levels, enough to recieve the Torah but we still had Moses as our leader who was a step above from the rest (also see Korach's rebellion (Bamidbar:Korach) . Rav Nachman claims everyone could reach his level, but the main word being "could", Rav Nachmans conception (obviously Rav Nachman is not the only one to teach this concept) of the Tzadik Hador was the person who could and DID reach this level, meaning he overcame all his temptations and changed his attributes, which would puts him in a diffrent class. Its as if there was one throne and many princes who were quite capable of leading but one prince triumphed for the throne, the other princes lacked that drive that the one prince had possesed to occupy the throne and become king. So we all have the tools to merit being the Tzadik Hador but something intrinsic within us stops us from being this Tzadik Hador. Also Rav Nachman teaches the concept that the Tzadik Hador has the soul of Moses and the Messiah so there it would seem that in every generation there is ONE soul to go around which prevents us from being that Tzadik Hador,  but we might still posses those tools to perfect ourselves and to be Righteous rather than the MOST righteous. One could also postulize that Rav Nachman said this quote before he had realized he was the Tzadik Hador, and just envisioned himself as a righteous person. Personally i dont know when he said this quote so i could be wrong. But i suggest to pick up the book Nafi
I have read Green's book and it is a very good history, but one must keep in mind that he is an academic scholar, not a practicing Breslover, although he does hold a deep respect for Rebbe Nachman.  (I met Dr. Green when I lived in Philadelphia many years ago.)  But among other things, also remember that he was once the President of the Reconstructionist seminary, and before that he was part of the Conservative movement.  He has never claimed to be a Breslover.  So I stand by my statement earlier, that I have never heard any Breslovers claim that Rebbe Nachman was the Messiah.  As for the Zaddik HaDor having the soul of the Messiah, this idea is not original to Breslov.  There is a much older teaching about a secret lamedvavnik (hidden saint) who, in every generation, could potentiallybe the Messiah if the people are ready for him to come.  Otherwise, the lamedvavnik remains simply a very righteous person -- and even he does not know his own potential as the Messiah until the moment actually arrives.User:rooster613
Just finished reading "Tormented Soul" which I greatly enjoyed, but was amazed at his disrespect for Rabbi Nachman discussing him as one would discuss a dog or a rabbit! It's been about 40 years now since he wrote the book, in which he lay down which such confidence the makings of Rabbi Nachman, the same amount of the entire life of Rabbi Nachman, so I would really like to see what the author can say for himself now. The book offers a very fine exposition of the timetable of what was going in Breslov, most of which the author himself says was done by a different scholar, but even still he deserves considerable credit (besides the fact that the other works were not as available). There are many points which the author shows his mastery and proper research. However it is quite amazing, once again at many completely false and untenable statements that the author makes. For example, Green says that the 20th Tora in Liqutay Moharan is the only one that is based on a story Rabbi Nachman revealed that he had dreamed. Besides for the fact that that exact reference quotes Rabbi Nachman as saying that each of his Tora's have a story, Rabbi Nussun writes explicitly about another Tora (if I recall correctly the first of Liquaty Moharan 2) was based on a story Rabbi Nachman had dreamed (in which they had brought him a chair, and all the marriages....).  Unfortunately I didn't record all of the out right false statements, but if anyone should need them, let me know. Green does provide much stimulating thought, but the abc of Rabbi Nachman is that only one who practices the teachings can have any claim to understanding them, and here Green just doesn't come through. For example, he beautifuly builds from Rabbi Nachman's teachings what appears to be a dichotomy of position whether one should retain complete simplicity and avoid all theoretical and philosophical question, when Rabbi Nachman professes that as a person advances he is presented with new prediciments of this sort which must be overcome. Had Green fully accepted Rabbi Nachman's position, he would have tested them in practice, and he would have had the strength and conviction to retain the stance of simplicity and leave all of his doubts and delusions, true he would be presented with new and stronger ones, but he would find solace in the simplicity of faith and in the strength of Rabbi Nachman to forge past them. Also absurd is the way Green determines that (G-d forbid) Rabbi Nachman had issues with women, based on the fact that Rabbi Nachman frequently stresses the importance of traditional purity! He offers the same conclusion from the tales Rabbi Nachman told, claiming that there are traces of tyrany in the women because Rabbi Nachman had issues?!!! Green suggests that the migilas storim names Rabbi Nachman as the Mushiach, today parts of the migilas starim have been published, and Green suggestion has been proven wrong. Green does learn many valid and good points and arguements from Rabbi Nachman, and often even when he is obviously wrong - such as when he provides reasoning to something Rabbi Nachman clearly stated no one would have figured out - Green is still interesting and stimulating.Na Nach Nachmu Nachmun (talk) 15:28, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Arthur Green certainly does not discuss Rebbe Nachman as if he were "a dog or a rabbit" as you say -- but he does discuss history in a modern academic style, not in yeshivish.  Again, Na Nach Nachmu Nachum, you seem to have a problem dealing with academic and NPOV styles of writing.  Just because a person does not write from a soapbox it does not mean they have no respect. Regarding "problems with women" it could be argued (and has been by feminism) that most writings of that era were somewhat negative toward women. This may sound disrespectful in 21st century, but in the 1800s there were Rebbes who, saintly as they might be, still had negative attitudes towards women.  From an academic POV, this is a legitimate area to explore.  Rooster613 (talk) 08:16, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Book by Green

message: :BTW, regarding "Zaddik HaDor having the soul of the Messiah" the idea is also in Chabad see the Sicha said on Simchas Torah 5746. --PinchasC | £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€ 02:24, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: ''Zaddik HaDor''

message: Can anyone talk about the significance of this popular phrase? or is that beyond the scope of Nachman himself? SF2K1
I have it on my "To do" list to create a page on this, hopefully soon.  It should be more properly discussed (or linked to) on the Breslov page, rather than Rabbi Nachman of Breslov.  Although it is based on his name, he himself did not use it, and it was not known until the early 20th century.  It is really a kabbalistic mantra used by the followers of the late Rabbi Yisroel Ber Odesser and does not date to Nachman himself.  It is not universally used by all Breslovers, either.  Rabbi Odesser's followers are a sub-group within the Breslov movement.  Rooster613
The mantra of Na Nach Nachma Nachman Me'uman was what some people thought to be a joke on Rav Odesser by some of his yeshiva students at the end of his life where he was unfortunately very senile, the students put a handwritten letter claiming it was heaven and that the author of the letter was Rav Nachman trying to communicate with Rav Odesser and within the letter it mentions this mantra as a segulah (charm) for the Mashiach, sadly in israel there is now a division within Breslov of Na Nachers and Breslovers, those who believe in the "letter from heaven" and those who are against it. It could be worth mentioning since its a well known symbol nowadays in Breslov and is seemingly spray painted everywhere in Israel. Nafi
Actually, the document with the mantra was NOT found at the "end of his life when he was senile," it found in 1922, when he was 17 years old, and was his mantra for all the years of his life.  However, it did not become popularized in Israel until the millennium fervor before  the year 2000, when everybody and anybody on the planet was digging messianic prophecies.  See the Na Nach Nachma page I created recently, for the story of "the letter from heaven," based on an account by Rav Odesser himself.  I myself do not use this mantra, I use "Ribbono shel Olam" which was Rebbe Nachman's mantra.  But others do use it, and it is a controversy was to whether it is authentic or not.  Some Breslovers believe it is the words of Rebbe Nachman, some do not.  For this reason, I included a section on controversies on the page.  BTW, It is not Wiki NPOV to call something "a sick practical joke."  Only SOME people CLAIM it was a practical joke.  Others believe it was a miracle.
User: rooster613
In a different talk page i recognized my error, but i did find another site which says he was 34 and not 17, but again i was wrong about him being in his old age. if anyone has been to the old city in the rova theres a guy called the 'n na nach guy" who all he says is this mantra.Nafi
My source for Reb Odesser being 17 years old is a booklet called "The Letter from Heaven" which has a firsthand account written by Reb Odesser himself. (I this bok as a ref. on the Na Nach Nachma page.)  He opens the account with "In the year 5682 (1922) on the Seventeenth of Tammuz, I felt terrible weakness..."  (p. 17) He goes on to describe how he broke the fast, felt depressed, found the letter, etc.  Since this is his own account of what happened, I think we have to accept that he was 17 and not 34 or elderly as his detractors claim.  (There seems to be a discrepancy about his birth date -- some sources say 1905, which would fit with the 1922 date above.  Others say 1888, which makes him 34.  A mystery unsolved as yet.) 
Whether or not it was a "joke" depends on whose opinion you listen to.  The jury is out on this with me, although I lean toward the opinion that the note was something written by Rebbe Nachman years ago, when he visited Tiberias, as we know he did on his pilgrimage.  Perhaps he slipped it into an old book to be found in the future -- as a sort of time capsule?  Stranger things have happened.  But if it was a forgery, then I wonder about the following points:
*How did the jokester know Reb Odesser had broken the fast that day?  According to his own account, he broke the fast in the morning before walking to the mikveh and then to the yeshiva where he found the note.  Even if he did say something about breaking the fast, when would the jokester have had time to write the note and put it in his room?
*How did the jokester put into his head "a powerful thought... as though someone had entered my head and my mind" (Odesser's words) telling him to go to his room?  If it was someone playing a joke by telling him to go to his room, why did he experience it as being in his mind?
*How was Reb Odesser guided to EXACTLY the right book to find it?  In his account, he describes walking to the bookshelf and taking a "certain book" down "as the thought had said to me."  He did not thumb through multiple books before finding it accidentally, as would be the case if someone wrote it and hid it in one of his books for him to randomly find.  Also, he claimed the bookcase was locked and he had the only key.  So how did the jokester get in?
*If it was written by a fellow student, then he must have been intimately familiar with Rebbe Nachman's writings, as well as kabbalah, to come up with this idea.  Since most of the people at the shul where Reb Odesser davened at the time were anti-Breslov, why would they have "wasted" their time reading the details of Rabeynu's writings to find such an obscure ref to a four-fold song of redemption?
Frankly, I fail to see how this defames Reb Odesser when he himself told the story and taught the mantra?  I am not in favor of the graffiti artists who spray it all over the place, but that is a different issue.  Rebbe Nachman himself said there is holiness in reciting the names of Zadikkim.  So what is wrong with those who choose to use this mantra, regardless of the origin? user:rooster613
Rabbi Israel Dov Odesser was 17 when he first found out about Breslov and began to practice its ways. He then met the hidden tzadik Rabbi Israel Karduner, who was The Master of the Tradition of Rabbi Nachman. Rabbi Israel Dov Odesser served G-d with his mentor for about 5 years, during which he got married and had children. The story of the Holy Petek occured in 1922 some years after the passing of Rabbi Israel Karduner.
There is some controversy as to the exact age of Rabbi Israel Dov Odesser, the most popular belief is that he lived to the age of 106 (if I recall correctly (according to all accounts) he died in 1994) many experts however claim that he was almost 10 years younger.Na Nach Nachmu Nachmun (talk) 15:43, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Na Nach Nachma Nachman Me'uman 

message: Regarding the statement in the Sabbetean section that Breslov is considered part of Haredi Judaism:  In Israel and Brooklyn that is mostly true.  However, in other areas where there are fewer Jews, Breslovers can be found in Modern Orthodox synagogues.  There are also Breslovers among the "Shlomo people" who, although they are Orthodox, are not Haredi.  Some Breslovers (myself included) feel that Rebbe Nachman's instructions to follow "Whatever is in the Shulchan Arukh" does not necessarily require a Haredi lifestyle.  However, it does imply that one should be Orthodox.Rooster613
:Dov Shurun's son is Nanach and hates Haredim (to be precise, he loves all jews, but not how they present themselves as Haredim), he believes that no Breslover is Haredi!15:56, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  "Hating" Haredim is not really in the spirit of Breslov, IMHO.  Rabbbenu had all types at his table, from very frum to secular -- and he loved them all.  And as you will note above, I have noted that not all Breslovers are Haredim.  However, the core of Breslov is Orthodox, even if there are non-Orthodox people who embrace some aspects of the Rebbe's teachings. Rooster613 (talk) 07:45, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Not all Breslovers are Haredim

message: Article needs more information about Breslov views related with sexual questions. Here are only mentioned danger of masturbation.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.7.65.229 (talk) 07:42, 2/Jan/06
:What sexual questions do you have? As Breslov is part of mainstream Orthodox Judaism, its Hasidim subscribe to all the laws about sexuality in the Shulchan Aruch, including: no premarital sex, sex only within marriage, no adultery, etc. Rebbe Nachman only highlighted some specific sexual aberrations—which are also sins—that damage a person's soul. If that is not clear in the article, I could change that. Yoninah 14:06, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Surely he had some original thoughts or writings on the topic of sexuality?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.126.95.2 (talk) 04:54, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: His main emphasis was on shemirat habrit (guarding the covenant), referring to the brit milah (covenant of circumcision). This ties into the list above: no premarital sex, sex only within marriage, no adultery, etc. This is already in the article. Yoninah (talk) 09:20, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Nachman of Breslov on wife and husband relations

message: You should add some discussion of them in the article.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.136.76.175 (talk) 17:11, 11/Apr/06
:Look under sub-section: "Published works." The 13 parables and fragments of stories were published as "Sippurei Maasiyot" ("Rabbi Nachman's Stories"). Although these stories have deep and significant meaning, they are not the backbone of Rebbe Nachman's teachings, so the article details his major teachings in greater depth. Perhaps you would like to see a separate Wikipedia article on the "Sippurei Maasiyot"? Yoninah 21:33, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a great idea, the stories have gained universal world wide recognition and deserve a page of their ownNa Nach Nachmu Nachmun (talk) 16:53, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree.  There is already a page on The Rooster Prince which I created a while back in connection with folklore related to chickens. Perhaps there should be a page on each story, with a general page about Rebbe Nachman's tales and links to all the stories?  This would be consistent with other pages on various folktales. It would also be a major project that will take some time to develop. Rooster613 (talk) 07:58, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Didn't he author a bunch of parables/fairy tales?

message: The town is actually known as Bratslav, so Rebbe Nachman of Bratslav is correct English name. Despite the fact that for historical reasons the Hasidic movement is called Breslov, in local Ukrainian Yiddish this town is called Broslev (in literature - Braslav). So the name of the movement and the name of the town, where reb Nakhman lived, sound differently.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.127.241.2 (talk) 20:00, 20/Sep/06
This was previously discussed and developed, no wonder this entry didn't sign his name.Na Nach Nachmu Nachmun (talk) 16:07, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Breslov vs. Bratslav

message: So I'm no Bratslaver, but I'm fond of the song Kol Haolam Kulo, and if the text of the Hebrew song is an accurate reflection of Rebbe Nachman's proverb, then the article's translation should be changed--as it is, it's not really close to the literal meaning.  A literal translation of "Kol Haolam Kulo Gesher Tzar Meod / V'haikar Lo L'fached Ra'" would be "The whole world is a very narrow bridge, and the main thing is not to fear evil."  Obviously everyone will translate the Hebrew in his or her own way, but the current translation is more of an interpretation than a translation, and should be revised.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.139.217.184 (talk) 21:59, 12/Dec/06
-- the words are "Lo L'fached CLAL," don't fear AT ALL, not "Lo L'fached Ra."  138.88.156.103 22:34, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kol Haolam Kulo 

message: To indicate greater context of controversy in his time. Mitnagdim versus hasidim. Jews of Haskalah versus Hasidim. --Metzenberg 12:44, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added paragraph to section on controversies 

message: The Wikipedia verifiability policy page clearly states:
"Because this is the English Wikipedia, for the convenience of our readers, editors should use English-language sources in preference to sources in other languages, assuming the availability of an English-language source of equal quality, so that readers can easily verify that the source material has been used correctly. Where editors translate any direct quote, they should quote the relevant portion of the original, non-English text in a footnote or in the article. Translations published by reliable sources are preferred over translations made by Wikipedia editors."
Since there are English translations of Rebbe Nachman's works available, it makes sense to use them instead of doing our own translations here. Rooster613 (talk) 10:17, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: More on English translations

message: Before we put this in external links, has anyone checked this site out?
They have one paragraph of LM, they have an advice column written by the Shechina herself, and no downloads or links. The sites purpose seems to be to tout a recently found book written by the Rebbe himself. It also claims to have a self portrait of the Rebbe. I have not checked out the site thoroughly, and I may be mistaken. Please someone, check them out. If they are legitimate, please restore the link.
Thank you,  Phil_burnstein (talk) 09:02, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I just checked out the site. It looks like one big promo for their book, The Wondrous Tree. Even the link to Likutey Moharan directs you for more information to their book. I agree with you that it should be deleted from the external links. Yoninah (talk) 11:21, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Likuteymoharan.com 

message: Rabbi Nachman, this cannot be (officially) the complete name. Does he have a christian name (prénom in French)? There is a ringtone available for mobile phones that refrains "Rabi Nachman Yehuda"... but what is the person's complete name he was born with? 95.208.2.2 (talk) 23:56, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: For thousands of years, Jews were only known by their first names and the names of their fathers, such as Moshe ben Amram (Moses), Akiva ben Yosef (Rabbi Akiva) and Shlomo ben Yitzchak (Rashi). Governments began to impose surnames on Sephardi Jews in the 11th century and Ashkenazi Jews in the 18th century. As far as we know, Rebbe Nachman's family did not have a surname. As for the first name, that's what it is in Hebrew, and there is no Christian equivalent. Best, Yoninah (talk) 09:50, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree with Yoninah.  And I want to add that since Judaism and Christianity are two separate religions, it would be an oxymoron for a Jew to have a "Christian" name, so I assume what was meant by this is a "first" or "given" name, as opposed to an inherited family name?  "Nachman" is a common Hebrew first name among Jews even today, and would be the name given at his circumcision (i.e., what he was "born with.")  But, as Yoninah points out, the custom of having "first" and "last" names is a relatively recent custom, imposed on Jews by various governments (see the page Jewish surname for more info), and apparently not yet in effect in Ukraine at the time Rebbe Nachman was born. Rooster613 (talk) 20:40, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Christian name 

message: Why is Reb Nachman allays titled specifically as "Rebbe" and not like "Rabbi" or "Rav". What is this based on? I think something as crucial as this, should be mentioned on the page. Can anyone help with a reason and a source. I have so far not found anything on this in the books I have read. Thank you,EhadHaam (talk) 22:45, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Some people (typically historians) do call him Rabbi or Rav Nachman, but since he is the leader of a Hasidic group, he is called Rebbe by his followers. Yoninah (talk) 23:08, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Is there a particular reason why only Rebbe Nachman is titled "Rebbe" as oppose to other Rabanim such as Rav Kook, Rabbi Schneerson and the Rav, Rabbi Soloveitchick? Again, if there is, it should probably be mentioned on the page, shouldn't it? EhadHaam (talk) 17:34, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: This is really a discussion for the Rebbe page. Hasidic leaders are typically called Rebbe, while Lithuanian leaders are called Rav. Rav Kook and Rav Soloveitchik are Lithuanian rabbis; Rabbi Schneerson is known as "the Lubavitcher Rebbe". Yoninah (talk) 20:08, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: this is a mistake, it's true that his title is "Rebbe" when referred to without is name or "the Breslover Rebbe", but the title used together with his name must either be "Reb Nachman" as he is called by his followers or Rabbi Nachman in Hebrew. Richard.print (talk) 09:48, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Title "Rebbe" and not "Rabbi" or "Rav" 

message: Is there any connection between Nachman of Breslov calling the world a narrow bridge and the As-Sirāt?--Baruch ben Alexander - ☠☢☣ 17:04, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: None at all. Yoninah (talk) 17:34, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kol haOlam kulo and the As-Sirāt 

message: Some Breslov Hasidim editors here have been attacking Jewish scholars of Hasidic Judaism in general, and of Nachman in particular, as "secular academics." They also write totally false claims, such as the claim that the Encyclopedia was written as a secular work (almost every article on halakha, Jewish law, was written by Orthodox Jewish rabbis.)  This is part of the ultra-Orthodox trend to de-legitimize Jewish rabbis and scholars who are not Haredi.  I have slightly rewritten the text to remove such implications.   The idea that Nachman thought that he certainly, or probably, was moshiach (the Jewish messiah) is indeed the mainstream conclusion of Modern Orthodox Jewish and non-Orthodox Jewish historians.
RK (talk) 23:29, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  No attacks on non-Hasidic Jews 

message: فکر نمیکنم باندازه من تحمل کنند؟شما انچه درلفافه میگویم رادرک میکنید.چه نامی برای چنین موضوعی بایدگذاشت؟زندگی راباتراکتور اشتباه گرفتند هیچ وجاهتی ندارد هستی کسی راپنهانی ربودن وبنام فوتی.زنده.کهن باستان.قدیم.جدیدمریخ تبادل کنند؟این نکته راهمه اگاه هستند هیچکس درهیچ قانون ومذهبی تحت هیچ برنامه ای نمیتواند جایگزین صاحب حق شود.لذا دست به قلم بردن اسانست.وقطعا حقیقت پیروز.لیکن کاش ذره ای تعمق درکردارشان میکردند.مثال ساده.وقتی به خانواده مردی پنهانی ساپورت کنند دیگرحقوق وی به گردپای وال استریت نمی رسد..واقعا متحیرم درحالی که تاکنون هیچ اطلاعی از شروع پنهان تاکنون ندارم؟ زمستان95 (talk) 02:40, 4 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:    زندگی 

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thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018) 

message: Hi all
Putting this section here as a placeholder for discussions on the recently added contentious section regarding the "Scroll of Secrets". The content added, which I have removed from the article this morning, is as follows:
In "Alim L'Terufah", with English translated text ETERNALLY YOURS (Alim LiTerufah), The Collected Letters of Reb Noson of Breslov Vol. 1-2-3-4Text translated by Yaakov Gabel edited by Moshe Schorr Published by Breslov Research Institute Jerusalem/New York 1993 ISBN 0-930213-58-0 the origin of this hidden book can be do by Breslover Chassidut; it is clear that the writing dates back to 1806 and was handed down to Reb Nathan and a few others.
It tells of two famous speeches but remained hidden for many centuries, to the point of affirming that even some of those who heard them from Rebbe Nachman of Breslov soon forgot them. What is the cause of this mystery? Obviously many of the secrets about the identity of the MashiachThe secret Manuscript from Rebbe Nachman (www.kotzblog.com) and of the redeemed righteous...
The "desire to hide and to reveal" the text seems to be due to the ease of understanding Kabbalah precisely through the Chassidut:
In the text - indeed it seems there are additions attributed for example to R.Abraham or R.Naftalì and others later - explicit reference is made to the Messiah, as King of Israel and even "Emperor" with whom the ministers of the various countries, where he travels, they bring gifts, they acquire wisdom, like others close to him, even to say of the construction of palaces in Jerusalem precisely for the kings. He will be the undisputed premier authority in Halakhah, he seems to be well versed in it at three years old. There is even discussion of his marriage, probably his deathMaimonides and a successor, as well as children and many sermons. He makes new compounds for the sick persons and he will find a chair in all land where he will be... He will have a genius for music and song, for jewels and at first they will not recognize that he is the one, afterwards each one will come to acknowledge that he is the messiah until all know [this].The Scroll of Secrets. The hidden messianic vision of R.Nachman of Breslav Academic Studies Press, USA 2010 
===Jewish origin of the Rebbe: a Tzaddik and Chassid of King David Dynasty===
Rebbe Nachman of Breslov never defined himself as Sefarad, Ashkenaz or anything like that... He simply liked to say that he was Tzaddik and Chassid as well as any other Jew: all his teachings are at the origin of Jewish theology and religion, according to the "7 faces of the Torah"; in Kabbalah and ethics up to the teachings of the whole Torah, with the Chassidut of the Rebbe Nachman it is possible to rediscover every aspect of Judaism with fully living its values, norms and concepts.200 year old - Scroll Hidden: Messiah (www.israel365news.com)
In any case, the Baal Shem Tov is said to belong to the "royal Davidic dynasty": this means that the Mashiach ben David must arise from this lineage, in fact the first and the Rebbe Nachman of Breslov himself have documentation and evidence regarding their origin, as mentioned above; this is true beyond the strange and rare semi-ecstatic trance of those who suddenly feel they belong to it and of being a "Jewish priest", a "Levite" or some other case famous in Judaism and evidently with an illusion due to a "serious" self-conditioning and therefore not truthful or verified: these latter elements just described, many widespread among religions, constitute the narrowest and lowest of the forms of superstition in which hypocritically their adherents and themselves, precisely common charlatans in everyday reality, pretend to believe. Despite this, for example, "the awareness as such" regarding whether or not to be Jewish derives from the incessant study in the Torah and in the faith in God: beyond the family and historical documentations or the testimonies about it that many Jews can claim to have, being a Jew is the spiritual, interior, existential, pragmatic and "material" state of which every devotee, who constitutes the Jewish people "with all of himself", is as fully aware as that before the most evident truth.
I am completely unfamiliar with this topic, so I don't know if the scroll of secrets is noteworthy enough to include in this article, but discussions should take place here before this is re-added. It also needs to be written in a much more accessible language, as the above it linguistically difficult to understand. Pinging  who have been involved with this, and I've also left a note on the talk page of IP . Many thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 11:05, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''Megillat Setarim'', "The Scroll of Secrets" section 

message: Rebbe Nachman of Breslov never defined himself as Sefarad, Ashkenaz or anything like that... He simply liked to say that he was Tzaddik and Chassid as well as any other Jew: all his teachings are at the origin of Jewish theology and religion, according to the "7 faces of the Torah"; in Kabbalah and ethics up to the teachings of the whole Torah, with the Chassidut of the Rebbe Nachman it is possible to rediscover every aspect of Judaism with fully living its values, norms and concepts.200 year old - Scroll Hidden: Messiah (www.israel365news.com)
In any case, the Baal Shem Tov is said to belong to the "royal Davidic dynasty": this means that the Mashiach ben David must arise from this lineage, in fact the first and the Rebbe Nachman of Breslov himself have documentation and evidence regarding their origin, as mentioned above; this is true beyond the strange and rare semi-ecstatic trance of those who suddenly feel they belong to it and of being a "Jewish priest", a "Levite" or some other case famous in Judaism and evidently with an illusion due to a "serious" self-conditioning and therefore not truthful or verified: these latter elements just described, many widespread among religions, constitute the narrowest and lowest of the forms of superstition in which hypocritically their adherents and themselves, precisely common charlatans in everyday reality, pretend to believe. Despite this, for example, "the awareness as such" regarding whether or not to be Jewish derives from the incessant study in the Torah and in the faith in God: beyond the family and historical documentations or the testimonies about it that many Jews can claim to have, being a Jew is the spiritual, interior, existential, pragmatic and "material" state of which every devotee, who constitutes the Jewish people "with all of himself", is as fully aware as that before the most evident truth.
I am completely unfamiliar with this topic, so I don't know if the scroll of secrets is noteworthy enough to include in this article, but discussions should take place here before this is re-added. It also needs to be written in a much more accessible language, as the above it linguistically difficult to understand. Pinging  who have been involved with this, and I've also left a note on the talk page of IP . Many thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 11:05, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Jewish origin of the Rebbe: a Tzaddik and Chassid of King David Dynasty

message: I was reading about the article on nachman, basically the biography. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nachman_of_Breslov
Yh i believe he was actually married at 13. But sashia was born the same yr as nachman - https://www.myheritage.com/names/nachman_horodenker . So she (sashia) could have been 12, or 13 i don't know exactly. But nachman engaged in child marriage, i dont think the torah condones that kind of action, as way of life. It says nachman encourage, people to believe in the torah, but i don't think he believed in it himself.
~~~~ 81.170.26.237 (talk) 20:58, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nachman of breslov's marriage 

message: Hi all
Nachman of breslov, that man people look at to be righteous in maybe sects of Judaism today, engaged in child marriage as discussed before; when it was hard to establish sashia's age. But reading up about his kabbalah venture, it seems to me he also went against torah, with the occult (kabbalah), i saw kabbalah is part of the occult - https://www.britannica.com/topic/occultism , i believe it is a type of divination (where people have the practice of seeking knowledge of the unknown by supernatural means).
When you enter the land the Lord your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, Deuteronomy 18:9-10
Kabbalah is the name of an occult philosophy and theosophy that developed among Jews in Babylonia if i'm not wrong. So that would make sense that kabbalah was a practice picked up from the nations, not deriving from the people of ancient Israel, i believe. But if anyone familiar with nachman, or knows about him, can feel free to share if he did anything else that not mentioned, that went against Torah, that's not in the original article, which has a credible source. The information shared would be valuable, in learning what kind of man nachman was, and how he should actually be perceived today in jewish circles.
~~~~ 81.170.26.237 (talk) 23:29, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nachman's ''kabbalah''???