Talk:White Hispanic and Latino Americans/Archive 1

message: There are about 40 million of White Hispanics in Spain, and this article does not represent them. It has to be moved; it lies. The Hispanics from Spain are also white and they are also Hispanics since they live in Hispania. And this article is US-based stuff. Onofre Bouvila 19:50, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: This article should be moved to "White Hispanics in the United States"

message: I'm not sure that we need an article about each US Hispanic racial subgroup. If I had to do it over, I wouldn't have re-started this one after I renamed it to White Latin American (to match its contents, since it was actually about White Latin Americans). But it's up already, so I'll leave it to you, fellow Wikipedians, to decide. Obviously, keeping it means we'd have to create articles for the other Hispanic subgroups. Anyway, talk amongst yourselves. SamEV 03:06, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  On second thought... 

message: I am not generalizing, these are observations made in the news articles, 
Yeah you are taking it completely out of context no where does it say Iberian. Iberian and Hispanic are two completely different things. Thats what they mean by Anglo in this case "Anglo" means English Speaker or Anglo Speaker. As for the Scandivanvian reference they mean why are all in Mexican soap Operas are there so many Blondes when Blondes are rare in a mestizo majority country. That is why it is incorrect. (DoubleNine 02:16, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Representation

message: I think Rita Hayworth and Rachel Welch who are half "white" and half Hispanic ought to be replaced by White Hispanics with both Hispanic parents. The current may mislead people into thinking White Hispanics (Hispanics of White "race) are White-Hispanics (half "white", half Hispanic. --FateClub 03:34, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What exactly are you talking about, DoubleNine?  You are applying different standards to different arguments. One minute "White and Hispanic are the same thing," yet in the above debate on Hair Color u stated the folowing: "Hispanics and White Hispanics are two different things entirely..." Which one is it??  BE CONSISTENT! Chuquibambino 02:32, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

text: The reason would be that a White Hispanic can be a full-blooded Hispanic, without the 
need to have "white" ancestry. --FateClub 19:05, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Care to elaborate? --FateClub 21:27, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Images of White Hispanics 

message: in fact all latin american ethnicities like castizos mestizos mulattoes indians etc need to expanded. people like to paint a giant brush and say its all the same hispanic/latino, but it isnt so. Manic Hispanic 17:21, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article needs to expanded 

message: Everyone is talking about how Latin-American media is portraying Latin-Americans as all blonde. That is a lie. Diego luna and Geal Bernal isn't even blonde. They look like Southern Spaniards.
American media, however. Has tried to "de-white" and "de-europeanize" the image of Spaniards. It is a fact that a blonde spaniard stands little chance of having a successfull career in the US. Take for example Antonio Banderas. He is the darkest form of what a spaniard can be and still if you look at his spanish langauge movies from when he was young, he had very pale skin. Fake tanners and roles as mexicans have made him successful in the US. I was watching e entertainment and they had a snip about penelope crus calling her a hot "Latina". She European and not latin American. They would never call an italian or french woman Latina. If you watch a movie from Spain or if you go to spain you will see that in fact a lot of people are blonde and a lot of actors but they don't get work in the US because they look too white. Only brunettes can cross-over because then the cleverly sculpted "non-white" image of the Spanish world can be preseved. Paz Vega played a mexican maid in Spanglish, a movie where it is clearly stated that she is not a white-mexican, when she is just as white as Julia Roberts or Sandra Bullock and yet again being a brunette they could again confuse people.
The fact is that Spaniard are generally "whiter" than italians and greeks and many french and yet they are called "latin" and "hispanic". It is rediculous and I wonder why this has happened.
 
Another think. i was watching a commercial about plascon paint. a man draws on a restaurants wall. The waiter wipes it off and the manager asks him if it was "messiour" Picasso, when it should have been "Senior" Picasso since picasso was a Spaniard and not frech. They are even taking Spanish cultural icons away from them.
The fact that there are people arguing here about the blondeness of Spain shows how confused people are. If you ask the average american if Penelope Cruz was white, they would say no, but ask then is Julia Roberts? and they'd say yes.
I think this weirdly crafted misconcertion must be added. I hope someone will.
I agree with the above poster. Although his or her English is a little bad, I do understand what he or she is saying. Actor, Jordi Molla, a recent Spanish import, has commented on Spanish TV that it took him a while to get work in Hollywood because he didnt have the "latin" look that Hollywood wanted. Even then he couldnt get work as a Spaniard, he commented on how Hollywood will not hire actual Mexican or Central American people to play Latino roles. He said they wanted Southern Europeans or atleast Crilolo actors to play Mexican roles.
I agree with some of what has been said...and dont know if this person has been to spain of is from spain..but i know that 8% of the spanish population has "natural" blonde hair.....not dyed...saw it on a spanish television program the other day Tve1 it was,....by a doctor.....and im not sure weather they are the whitest after the french..i doubt that..but anyhow ...what distiguishes people is the features of people more than anything else..regardless of skin tone.....
The only reason why spanish people have been portrayed as latin, is because they are latin..and even though the portuguese, Italians and french are latin aslo..but dont get referred as so..is purly just because of the large spanish speaking population, but most people know italians etc are latins also....'latino' and 'latin' are used differently in america and europe....europeans i think know the difference alittle better......its similar as calling all people of european origin 'ango',even though they are not of english origin......its a' cultural'-link, thing only..
: dont forget to sign your comments with ~~~~Muntuwandi 17:31, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  I think a section should be added on what the misrepresentation of "the spanish speaking world" in US media has caused on the image of Spaniards and other white hispanics. 

message: "White Hispanic" is an oxymoron.  68.110.8.21 15:55, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fake 

message: This is rediculous. Why did you use her? this is why people come here saying its an oxymoron. She's from Puerto Rico which is a very multicultural country and her bio does not state that her ancestors are from Europe and you can say what you want but she does not look like a spaniard. Thats crazy! You people are going too far!
Features actually distinguish a nationality more than anything else....ive met americans who had trouble identifying swedish people from spanish ,eg:face,height,clothes etc....when living in spain myself...and me being spanish-european can idenitfy nationality on average very well........
i think that because the US is soo mixed euro-nationaltiy wise..they cant always identiy nationality distinctly..
Here is an example of a spanish presenter..not everybody looks like her..but never the less there are alot of girls like her......
*Sonia ferrer Spanish presenter from barcelona
*sonia cap
*sonia caps
*sania caps
*Ines Sastre,spanish Castillian model
* There are not many Spaniards who look like this Sonia and she's probably heavily fake tanned on that pic and in fact, you can't say weather she is gypsy or not. This is an encyclopedia and it is against the principle of this site to use unsources facts. You cannot say Nadine is white when you have no proof and she certainly does not look like a Spaniard at all. She looks like a metziza. She is without a doubt not 100% white. She must be removed. You seem to not realise that Spaniards are just as white as any other Europeans. The few dark ones are rare and in many cases gypsies so dont be confused.
Some real Spanish women:
*
*
*
*
These are just a few of the Spanish "celebs" so why are there no white hispanics who look like these people on your list? Please you are basically calling all hispanics white when that is not true. Only ones who are white should be called white. Only those of European extraction.
It was just a coincidence that the examples I used were mostly blondes but your beauty queen links all link to obviously white women except miss Valencia and the fact is that this is 2007 and many Latin Americans and Africans and even arabs have moved to spain in the last 50 years so modern examples can be inacurate. I'm not saying that miss Valencia isnt 100% spanish though. Shes just very tanned. The thing is that Nadine does not look like these women. She has slanted eyes and clearly has non-caucasian elements within her. And about gypsies. They are a different ethnic group because they are decended from Indians and soe believe Egyptians mixed with the European populations. They are found all over Europe. Sonia is a very starnge looking person. Not even in the most southern Spanish towns have I ever seen some1 who looks like her. weird. And how do you know she isn't a gypsy or part gypsy?
All I am trying to do it have this article have some credibility. You cannot call any metziza hispanic white based on nothing.
well she is not considered anything else in spain,I only read her biography on the web and have seen her in interviews and she doesnt say anything about her being a Gitana....if she was in spain they'd mention it...they always do as for havig proof of peoples background then yeah im all for that..
but in spain there has only been lots of immigration only during the last 6-7 years ..from latin america, africa etc....like 4-5 times the amount they had 7 years before...and not many people born to immigrants are represented on spanish tv...certanly not the main presenters.....not like england where its immigrants are represented on tv..
but i surrender now..haha.
by the way look at the lopez sisters. her sister is definatly european..not similar though are they..
lynda lopez
see Sub-Saharan DNA admixture in Europe Muntuwandi 12:58, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  There is no reason  to call Nadine Velazquez a white hispanic 

message: People in this talk page are getting absolutely ridiculous. People have to understand that Hispanics are just as White as any other White group...Since when does a dark tan or brunette hair exclude a person from being White. This mentality is very White American (And Ironically, technically many White Americans are Middle Eastern, Latino, etc). Another thing...having Indian ancestry (Mestizo, Castizo, etc) doesn't exclude a person from being White. Even in ridiculous "White American" mentality, people with part Indian blood are White! Yet they exclude Hispanics that may be whiter than them from the White Category! And people with a problem...If it makes you mad that Mestizo's can be a part of "Whitedom"...think of your Spanish or other European Ancestors...Weren't they excited to come to the Americas and make it their home, and get rich quick, if you will? Take Everything that comes with it! Cali567 15:40, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Indians and their descendents are not racially European/Arab/North African, okay?  They may be of light complexion, but colour isn't the single defining element of race.  Come and delete my statement again, dictator.  68.110.8.21 18:27, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Let us not turn the discussion page into a newsstand for women's magazines, or a celebrity fansite.Muntuwandi 13:24, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  White Hispanics...Mentality... 

message: All these squabbles of whether so an so is white enough just illustrates that whiteness too is a social construct. Someone who is white in one country is not white enough in another. Muntuwandi 16:08, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In "Hispanic Latin American" countries, Whiteness IS a social construct.  I agree with you, because of that person's statement above you.  That person erased my previous statement.  In the European Union and USA, race is not just colour, but anthropological.  We have no castizos or mestizos in the USA or EU.  We don't think that way.  So for us, race is not a social construct, based in advancement or oppression.  I am "White" in complexion, but that matters less than the fact that I can only count Caucasian ancestors for certain.  If I go back far enough to Egyptian times, maybe there are Negroes in my family tree.  That's inconsequential to being "White".  What is different, is the racial makeup of "Hispanic Latin America", where everybody but recent immigrants is verifiably whole or partly Indian.  That excludes them from being "White", or Caucasian rather to the point.  Just because one has some Caucasian ancestors, does not make them "White".  Take Tiger Woods or Barack Obama, for instance.  Don't try to be who you aren't.  Just be happy mixed and leave it at that.  68.110.8.21 18:36, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Whiteness is a social construct

message: Do you consider jennifer Lopez to be a White Hispanic?..Since the definition of the White American is: 
The U.S. Census currently defines "white people" as "people having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa.
Cause i think they are....
The only things i can find about this on the net is:
Both parents came to the United States in their childhoods, and eventually met while living in New York City. While Jennifer is of Puerto Rican descent, her mother's parents were Europeans who settled in Puerto Rico and her paternal grandmother's parents were Europeans who settled on the island.
Cant find a photo of her father..can anyone else find one of her dad?.......non of p didy like someone did....eer no her fathers White actually.....
*Her mom
*3 Lopez Sisters
* Sorry but Jennifer Lopez is not white. Her mother's ancestors are definately not only Europeans. You can even see by Jennifer's large cheekbones that she has asian, Ameridian or African ancestors. And her mother does not look white at all. She's definately mixed race. Her father I think might be white tho, judging by a picture I saw of him once.
'71.235.92.55, your post are deleted because they are nothing more than racist and xenophobic white supremacist giberish! The Ogre 20:43, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Jennifer Lopez

message: You people are hoping, begging and wishing for previlages, respect a title that you did not earn, go by on your own and are not deserving of.  You did not build the US, you had the Spanish Empire and it failed, not you come here by crossing the border and by boat.  Stop fooling yourselves.  BEFORE the first Spaniard came to the Americas, they already had black blood and Asian blood in them!  This is why they are darker.  This is why on the paintings from the Colombian period they had yellow hues, dark hair, curly hair and full lips.  Yeah, Isabella was red, but Spaniards were never one type of European to begin with.  On top of that, as the Moors got defeated (not actually kicked out of Spain altogether), more Europeans came into the mix and reintroduced whiteness.  NOW, the mulattoized peoples still remained as it is today, especially in Portugal, France and Italy.
Once the Spaniards came over here, mixing was let loose, UNLIKE the rule in the USA!  See, the US was operating on whiteness and a white 'purity' concept.  You guys were operating on being greedy and grabbing land and not knowing what to do with it.  You mixed with the natives and the Africans.  It is more than clear.  In fact, it is so clear that that is all you see.  Only after the US established itself as THE word power (and broke down Spain's empire.  How come they did not do it to France..?), THEN you people started trying to think of yourselves as white.  That only increased as you immigrated to the US and it broke your hearts when you found out that you were not white and landed in the ghetto.
If you sad mixed people don't get it by now - America does not settle for mixes or those who cry about being white, you are or you are not.  If you have noticed in US history and society in general, Spain and Portugal are hardly if ever mentioned in a context with Europe.  You ask the average American where Portugal is they can't tell you.  They may have heard of some people (usually black) calling themselves Portuguese, but have no idea where or what Portugal is.  Spain less so, but white is not associated with Spain.  Even Europe is hardly associated with Spain.
All of this BS about you guys being more pure than American whites is just that - BS.  People know that you are hispanic.  You don't - you can't fool anyone.  Only very few of you look like a 'no questions asked' white person.  I can understand your pain, since many Greeks and Italians are regarded (not exactly accepted) as white, even though clear non-European/African traits are visible.  I guess you would ask "if they can be white, then why should I not be?"  Good question, but you people are not doubt mixed and recently.  Italians and Greeks may not have a direct black parent, but you can look at them and see that African beneath the surface.  Some African is on the surface more than the white is!  
Sadly (for those of you with white dreams that is), you are lumped together with the rest of your latino brothers.  Just because things are not going well n ALL of those (so much land and resources) countries, you want to come to the US and get a free ride as whites?  It does not work as easily for you as it may work for others.  One, you ARE NOT coming from Europe, so there is no built-n perception of whiteness based on Europe alone.  Two, you are mixed!  You need to review the history of the US!  Once you do (the 20th century alone will do), you will see that you need not apply as white.  Only the absolute whitest (dying your hair blond or red does not fool anyone for your information) need apply.  You just can't come to a country and get a free ride.  You have ALL of Latin America, instead of making something out of that, you want to come here and try and be white.  No, no.
I still cannot believe how many Puerto-Ricans, Dominicans, Chileans, Argentines and so on truly believe themselves to be white.  I met a female who thinks she is white.  I keep telling her it is only in her world because it is not in anyone else's.  Spain IS in Europe, but despite popular thought, not all Europeans are white.  You can do your best to lie about the Moors, lies about African slavery in Latin America and lie that there was even race-mixing going on, it does not change history and biology.
Also, I was already well aware of the hispanic trick of calling white people Anglos, meaning "your type of whites as opposed to my type" which whites don't care about.  You are not seen as white, you are seen as hispanics.  This is why you are (along with Italians and other black mixed Europeans)quick to (try) and be 'racist'(renegade mulatto is more like it) against blacks, thinking that it pleased whites and that it somehow makes you feel white in your mind.  Being white does not mean being a racist.  White is an American (USA) thing.  Most Europeans never thought of themselves as being part of a white people.  It is the US that put this forth.  Even they are hypocrites for this.  Being mixed can be rough, but be happy with who you are.  It is what it is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.235.92.55 (talk • contribs) 
:This guy is a Troll The Ogre 12:35, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Are you serious? 

message: The discussions on the talk page are deteriorating to the point where nobody is even making any suggestions for the article. Many edits are rants and ramblings. Something needs to be done because the article is static but it is not in good shape. Muntuwandi 12:34, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Talk page is deteriorating