Talk:20th-century history of Kosovo

message: Another user left this on my talk page:
:See the History of Modern Kosovo article. It's unendingly POV. It says that during Yugoslavia over 80% were Albanians, but their number fell because of Serb colonization - even though the censuses state ~65%. Most of the article relies on crimes against Albanians - but (like in WWII) atrocities on Serbs are nowhere mentioned. --PaxEquilibrium 23:32, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe the article is fully NPOV now, after many posts have improved it. I erase the tag. --Popovichi (talk) 03:12, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  General Question 

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BetacommandBot (talk) 22:24, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Kosovo pisg logo.PNG

message: I have rephrased the "brutal occupation vs liberation" part of the opening lines (regarding Serbian rule from 1912) on the following grounds:
*1. The source used (Noel Malcolm, Guardian 2008) crops up frequently but is itself totally unreliable with regards the point that was being made. As much as I am opposed to using the likes of him as a source, he has been vetted as "reliable" on WP, and has the Guardian as a text source. However, one needs to be cautious when presenting sources because their purpose for display is to prove actual statements, not assist opinions; this source is a "verdict" offered by a historian. That historian in turn ackowledges certain allegations but does not (in this short section) report his own sources. To be fair, he did not need to because he was simply responding to a question he was asked by a Guardian editor. Either way, the only reliable source to support demographic percentages is a link to the actual census itself - not prose from a "trusted" professional. Figures concerning Kosovo's demographic structure have for many centuries been the subject of controversy for a wide variety of reasons: boycotts, Kosovo's own borders chopping and changing, sources ultimately coming from documents such as tax forms and not censa (which in turn concentrated on urban and not rural settlements - and not incorporating everybody), constant bickering between one ethnic group and the other over results etc. The subject is very shady.
*2. The source used does not say that Albanians formed a 75% majority. It says that Orthodox Serbs - by their own estimates - composed no more than 25%. By their own estimates where? I have never encountered a Serbian publication stating that they composed only a quarter of the population. Furthermore, the source does not indicate whether the reference was to Kosovo's pre-1912 vilayet or Kosovo in its present-day shape. It makes a huge difference. Firstly: for Serbs to have composed a 25% minority in either entity, it still would have left significant chunks of other non-Albanians who would further reduce the Albanian percentage. It is possible that Serbs composed 25% of today's Kosovo (but again, how can it be proved outright?) but it is unthinkable that Albanians could have formed such a supermajority in the vilayet. If you take an ordinary map of the Balkans and outline the vilayet in its pre-1912 form, you incorporate a wide territory far beyond the traditional lands in which Albanians settled. Even today, the Albanian population - having soared over the decades in present-day Kosovo - will compose at most about 50% of this region. The capital and largest city in the vilayet remians the single largest city in the region today: Skopje. But other significant areas and towns with few if any Albanians included the Sandžak region (Novi Pazar, Tutin, Prijepolje, Sjenica, Pljevlja, Gusinje, Rožaje, Berane, Bijelo Polje) which have recorded no significant drop in Albanians, plus in Macedonia - Tetovo, Gostivar, Štip, Veles, Kumanovo, with only the first two having Albanian majorities. Skopje's majority is Macedonian at about two thirds, however, the 1911 encyclopaedia confirmed that Skopje was mainly Slavic and its two biggest populations were Serb and Bulgarian. The fact that their great-grandchildren identify as Macedonian is irrelevant, but goes to show that many ethnicities lived in the region then, and it is widely known from censa that most Montenegrins declared Serb at that time, as did a number of Muslims (notably in Sandžak region). The source only said that Orthodox Serbs were 25% without addressing the number of Catholics, Muslims or even athiests who identified as Serb, nor the non-Serbs who welcomed Serbia. After all, Serbia fought alongside three other nations to expand its border into former Ottoman territory. Evlekis (talk) 20:16, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  The 1912 malarkey 

message: During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
* http://www.hrw.org/worldreport/Helsinki-12.htm
** In History of Kosovo on 2011-03-29 15:05:04, 404 Not Found
** In 20th-century history of Kosovo on 2011-06-19 05:19:03, 404 Not Found
--JeffGBot (talk) 05:19, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 

message: During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
* http://www.refugees.org/news/crisis/kosovo_u0399.htm
** In History of Kosovo on 2011-03-29 15:05:04, 404 Not Found
** In 20th-century history of Kosovo on 2011-06-19 05:19:15, 404 Not Found
--JeffGBot (talk) 05:19, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 2 

message: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=20th-century_history_of_Kosovo&diff=482612529&oldid=481248925
The removed link currently doesn't connect to anything, and doesn't appear to make sense any way in the article. Maybe someone can fix that? Oranjblud (talk) 21:45, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Unexplained link

message: I have restored complete removal of one side of the medal. This kind of editing is counterproductive... For such a massive POV push, you must gain consensus. --WhiteWriterspeaks 19:24, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV nationalism 

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