Talk:Murder of Jesse Dirkhising

message: I've completed the first phase of converting to the Harvard style to address an editor's concern about HTML mark-up. The next phase will be cleaning up all the refs to format to the Harvard style - books should indicate page number, newspaper articles are cited differently, etc. With the first phase complete, however, all the apparently hindering mark-up has been effectively moved out of the main text so hopefully that will address those concerns.  -- Banjeboi 19:56, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Update: I still need to re-review each cite and add page numbers and possibly revert the news articles as those, I think stay where they were.  -- Banjeboi 21:04, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: What do you mean by "revert the news articles"? Do you mean the  template I used? -kotra (talk) 21:31, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, no revert my news cite changes. I'm still looking into this but itseems those should stay where they were but the book moves are fine. Piece by piece we'll get it!  -- Banjeboi 00:16, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, thanks for the clarification. -kotra (talk) 01:12, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Now that the article has calmed I'll look to completing this with an eye to GA.  -- Banjeboi 13:08, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Converting to Harvard refs 

message: I was just checking some sources and found that this article has a number of editorials or opinion pieces that are used as references. For example, the first source listed, "'A special kind of killing'". Op-eds should only be used as a source for the opinions of the newspaper or the writer, not as a source for facts.  ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 21:04, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If the edit warring desists I will be happy to look into any concerns.  -- Banjeboi 23:02, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I will certainly be looking into this before taking to GA nom.  -- Banjeboi 13:14, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opinions and editorials 

message: At the top of the Accusations of Homophobia section was added the following sentence: "Criticism of the media-bias accusation and the use of the case to argue against homosexuality focused on the belief that homosexuality was being treated as identical to pedophilia."
This sentence implies that the main criticism was the homosexuality = pedophilia slant. However, the section seems to describe the homophobia more broadly than just that slant, with the slant being mostly an aside. Unless a citation can be found clarifying the main accusation of homophobia being about that slant, the sentence should be removed. -kotra (talk) 17:28, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism of the media-bias accusation 

message: The Benton Country court affidavit linked from this article notes that a search revealed the presence of texts describing the sexual abuse of a young girl. This information has been twice removed from the article, though it highlights the fact that the murderers were pedophiles (and possibly indiscriminate as to gender). The first removal said it was unsourced (it was sourced using the McMath article, which was already linked). The second removal said that the affidavit constituted original research (though it was already linked and the author did not remove the link), and that it was a primary source. A primary source would be one of the killers themselves, or someone personally affiliated with them or the victim. 
The writings about a girl being abused were found by law enforcement, and they are the source. It is not even stated that the killers actually wrote the material - only that they had it. Barring any reasonable response here, I'll feel free to restore this information in a few days. So let's clear this up.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.11.135.246 (talk) 01:17, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sorry for not addressing this already. This should be cleared up and made accurate as to who identified as what, etc.  -- Banjeboi 21:24, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

text: The key statement is "While being questioned by Detective Martha Armstrong after being Mirandized, Josh Brown stated that he was Davis Carpenter’s lover." Nothing contradicts this but I think we should clarify this and state that they had also stated they had lived together in three states and were presumed to be a gay couple. The also-assaulted-young-girls-evidence isn't terribly convincing I'm afraid. It's clear that Dirkhising was degraded in various ways including some feminizing and it's unclear where any actual encounter with any other minors, or anyone else really may have ever occurred. The handwritten story referring to an assault on a young girl could easily be more of the same - fictionalized role playing done in story form. Often in written pornography the genders are changed from an original story to suit the desires of an audience. We don't know who the story was written for and if it was based on any real people or any real desires. For all we know he was an aspiring porn writer making some extra money - that the subject of the story was a young girl sexually assaulted makes it disturbing and suspicious but not conclusive to anything.  -- Banjeboi 22:06, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Court Affidavit and presence of texts about abuse of a girl 

message: On June 30, 2009, Benji made content changes against consensus and then quickly archived the original discussion concerning the content issue (over the word "homosexual" vs. "gay") on the same day. Prior to his changes, consensus seemed to be that the word "homosexual" (like the word "heterosexual") was the correct and proper english word best fit to be used in an encyclopedia. I made it clear in the last discussion that slang words (like "gay" and "straight") are not appropriate for a encyclopedia. I changed the wording back to what it was before. Unlike Benji, I am asking others to voice their opinion here concerning this issue and hopefully we can reach another consensus that will stick this time. Please do not revert my edit until then. Discuss first please. Thanks. Caden cool 17:11, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Please stop the antagonism and battleground mentality, "openly homosexual" is the near exclusive domain of the religious right in the United States it is completely inappropriate for an encyclopedia.  -- Banjeboi 21:25, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I beg your pardon Benji? I am not doing no such thing so please cease with your attacks and bad faith. Homosexual is the proper english word, just like heterosexual. Slang words like "gay" or "straight" should not be used in an encyclopedia. Those words are inappropriate. Caden cool 21:35, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Benji please stop. Please stop reverting my edits before discussing it here. I made it clear in both my post as well as in my edit summary to discuss things first. Thanks. Caden cool 21:39, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Caden, that's not the way it works. You don't make controversial edits then tell everyone they can't undo them until you are satisfied with discussion. Read this essay for a pretty good explanation on how controversial edits should be handled. Also, three users have undone some or part of your edits on this article. Please be mindful not to edit war. AniMatedraw 21:52, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

text: Merriam-webster, Cambridge and any free dictionary I could pull up online do not label the usage of gay in the homosexual sense as informal or slang. 'Gay' hasn't been used in any other sense than the aforementioned one in most texts written after 1960 because of the potential for misunderstanding. The Homosexualist (talk) 21:57, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah Ani, I know how it works. First off, I didn't make controversial edits. The proper english word is homosexual. I've been reverted by 3 editors all from the exact same wiki project. No surprise there dude. I'm sorry but it's true. I wanted consensus but I see that a heterosexual editor like me is not allowed to ask for that. Thanks but no need to worry since I will not be edit warring over this. Please give the same advice to Benj on edit warring. Thanks. Caden cool 22:05, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Caden please stop. I'm not edit-warring here whereas you have a history of doing so. And no one is discounting you for your sexuality. Presuming other editors motives' and LGBT status is unhelpful. We comment on the content, not the contributor.  -- Banjeboi 22:11, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, Will Beback, who removed the category after I did, is not a part of WikiProject LGBT (unless he, Benji and I are all part of another WikiProject). Benji, should you feel that Caden makes inappropriate edits please discuss them and avoid any temptation you may feel to edit war. For the record, I see no evidence that anyone here has edit warred, but it is always a good idea to remind editors in conflict to avoid it, and that includes me. AniMatedraw 22:16, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: No Benji, you need to stop. You've edit warred before on this very article. And yes I do feel I am being discounted based on my heterosexuality. And I "was" commenting on content, that's why I was trying to discuss it here on the talk page but I see I wasted my efforts as I've seen how you've decided to comment on the contributor (me) instead of content. Caden cool 22:24, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Time out. Technically you've both commented on each other. Now instead of escalating things here, why not go and edit something else until any anger about this article has dissipated. AniMatedraw 22:29, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

text: No worries AniMate. I'm logging off and going for a jog before I say something I may regret later. I just saw Benji's post to Black Kite and I'm not happy since I take that post as a threat from Benji (looks to me he's trying to get my former ban reinstated, which is wrong). Caden cool 22:47, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Content changes made by Benji without consensus 

message: I am changing this sentence: "While both victims had died as the result of assaults by two men, Dirkhising was a minor and the victim of a sex crime; while Shepard, an adult, was murdered out of hate."
to . . .
"While both victims had died as the result of assaults by two men, Dirkhising was a minor and the victim of a sex crime; while Shepard, an adult, was murdered as part of a hate crime." 
The reason for the change is that I think it goes without saying that a person is murdered out of hate, but that doesn't necessarily equate to a hate crime under the law. I know it's a bit picky, but it's better, IMHO.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.99.222.84 (talk) 04:19, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Not true neither. Sheppard was attacked by another homosexual over motives not related to dislike of homosexuals http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/09/14/The-Matthew-Shepard-Story-is-a-Lie --197.228.62.189 (talk) 16:24, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minor Change in Opening Section 

message: Why was the image of Jesse Dirkhising deleted? There was no explanation left for this deletion. Caden cool 18:56, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you Whisper! Cool to have the image back. Caden cool 22:56, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jesse Dirkhising's Picture 

message: There is not mentioned i.e. David Duke. He seems to be one initial and is also mentioned in the Washington Times article.
* 1999-10-16 American Dissident Voices Broadcast of October 16, 1999
* 1999-10-17 2 Adult Homos Rape and Murder a 13-year-old Boy Diskussion
* 1999-10-17 Individualism and Alienation Forwarded from the New Paradigms Project; Lloyd Miller, Research Director for A-albionic Research
* 1999-10-18 Did You Hear of this on the Evening News with Tom Brokaw? Probably Not.
* 1999-10-18 Matthew Shepard and Jesse Dirkhising (short, "Questions") (is posted many times in serveral groups)
* 1999-10-19 Duke Report Online: David Duke Demands Coverage of Homosexual Rape and Murder, , ,  (attention to the groups names)
* And then came 1999-10-22 The Washington Times, which is in the usenet many times posted in many groups. Media tune out torture death of Arkansas boy  (more often than Shepard-articles to his murder, excluding one often posted internet-petition for hate-crimes laws)
* Somewhere i had read, that the parents had asking not to spread the news over the country. But i have only avery weak source for this now. --Franz (Fg68at) de:Talk 03:53, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  David Duke 

message: I have read some claims that Jesse Dirkhising was actively seeking relationships with older men, regardless of their illegality; and that his parents said he was gay during trial. I don't know if any of that is true. Any sources?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.54.39.252 (talk) 19:56, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Was the victim gay? 

message: I think a lot of page numbers are missing. The page numbers need to be identified. If possible link to the pages on Google Books
WhisperToMe (talk) 05:34, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page numbers 

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