Talk:Western League (1885–1900)

message: There is a dispute by the author's own admission concerning the accuracy of saying that the NY Yankees's history dates back to the Indianapolis team of the Western League.
See also Quick Facts here: New York Yankees
Roodog2k 22:32, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uncertain information 

message: It is absolutely clear that the Buffalo franchise was dropped in favor of the new (for 1901) Boston Red Sox. (Beyond Bsn Johnson's desire to locate in larger cities, and willingness to go head-to-head with the NL in Boston, he appears to have had some financial interest in the Red Sox. So much for Buffalo.) The Bisons joined the International League.
I am moving the Buffalo entry out of the "disputed" section. B00P (talk) 20:57, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Buffalo

message: The mistakes in the article are understandable; there were several organizations calling themselves the Western League or Western Association in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Essentially, this is the account of the earliest variants. The Northwestern League, founded in 1878, went briefly under the name of the Western League in 1880-1881. It became the Western Association in 1888, changed its name to the Western League in 1893 and became the American League in 1899 (not 1900). It left the National Agreement in 1900 and is (retroactively) recognized as having gained major league status by 1901.
In addition to the other Western Leagues cited in the article, there was also the Western League founded in 1900, which became the American Association in 1902.
Both pages (for Western Association and Western League) will need to be filled in with more detail, including standings, and information on the old Northwestern League is needed.
*The Western League of 1899 changed its name to American League after the season, so it took effect in 1900, and that's why it's worded that way. The "retroactive" you're referring to would have been effective in 1903 when the leagues made peace. Wahkeenah 22:17, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Western League/Western Association Confusion 

message: There are several mistakes in the franchise summary.  First the Detroit franchise began play in 1894 as the Wolverines, changing their name to the Tigers in 1895. Second, the Milwaukee Brewers franchise (precursor of the AL's SL Browns and today's Baltimore Orioles) operated under the name "Creams" in 1896.  Third, the Sioux City (IA) Cornhuskers (precursors of today's White Sox) operated under the name "Apostles" in the years 1895, 1896 and 1898. They used the moniker "Saints" only in 1897 and 1899 before moving to Chicago in 1900. Fourth, the reference to the Toledo franchise is totally inaccurate.  Begun as the Toledo White Stockings in 1894,they changed their name to the Swamp Angels in 1895 before moving to Terra Haute,In as the Hottentots for the remainder of the 1895 season.  In 1896 they moved to Columbus, Ohio where they played as the Buckeyes in 1896 and the Senators in 1897, 98 and a part of '99.  Later in 1899 they moved to Grand Rapids, MI where they played as the Furnituremakers. It was THIS Grand Rapids (and NOT the original GR team founded in 1894- see below)team that then relocated to Cleveland in 1900 and eventually became today's Indians. Fifth, regarding the orignal Grand Rapids team identified as a charter member in 1894, they were known as the Rippers (aka Rustlers) in 1894 and the Goldbugs in 1895, 96 and 97. In 1898 they were either disbanded or moved (not clear) and resurfaced in Omaha as the "Omahogs" aka "Babes'.  Later in 1898 they finished their season out in St Joe, Mo as the Saints.  After the 98 season, and again this is again unclear, the St Joe team was either disbanded or moved and it was THIS, NOT the original Toledo team, that became the Buffalo Bisons in 1899 and 1900.  Some say this Buffalo team was then replaced by today's Red Sox when the AL attained major league status for the 1901 season. To repeat, the orignally chartered Toledo team became today's Indians via Terra Haute, Columbus and Grand Rapids.  The originally chartered Grand Rapids team became (according to some) today's Red Sox via Omaha,, St Joe and Buffalo. As for the other three chartered franchise ie Indianapolis, Kansas City and Minneapolis, opinions are mixed.  Some say the Kansas City franchise did actually relocate to Washington in 1901 and became the orignal Nationals ie Senators.  This is true if one considers a team's roster to be defined as "the franchise". But if one considers "ownership license" to be the hallmark of a "franchise" then it is probably not true that the Kansas City franchise relocated and became the Washington franchise.  Similarly this is true of the Indy franchise moving to Philadelphia in 1901 and becoming the A's.  Perhaps only in the sense that several of the players made the move but the ownerships were different. Finally there is no evidence that the original Minneapolis Miller franchise had any connection to any of the orignally chartered Al teams in 1901 either the original Baltimore Orioles or their successor, today's Yankees. User:24.75.97.83 15:30, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mistakes 

message: I think it was an error that the page was moved.  It certainly should have been discussed here first.  The editor that moved it has a very limited history and no edits after the date of the move, so I'm discussing this here rather than on his page.  I'm going to move it back to Western League (original) -- if possible -- because there are several different iterations of the Western League that are discussed on this page in addition to the version that became the American League, all of which baseball historians treat as one semi-continuous entity.  I don't think it's established that they all had this full name. -Kgwo1972 (talk) 13:52, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page move to: "Western League of Professional Baseball Clubs" 

message: Moved to talk RJFJR (talk) 22:21, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Disputes in league history

message: Moved to talk RJFJR (talk) 22:21, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Transition to American League