Talk:Michael Kelly (editor)

message: Does anyone know if Wilbert Davis died in the crash too, and if so can they add it to the article? ʄ!•¿talk? 02:15, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Both men died.  I've clarified.  --JayHenry (talk) 02:27, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  To put it bluntly... 

message: A vandal appears to be trying to whitewash Kelly's role in the Glass scandal from the introduction. Due to the film on the scandal, that is probably what is he best known for, outside of relatively small U.S. journalistic circles, and as such belongs in the intro.
Karaff (talk) 03:37, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Glass Scandal in Introduction 

message: I cannot edit this page, as it is about my late father, and I do not want to violate the COI guidelines that I so frequently warn other users for ignoring.  However, I do feel that this article has significant problems, namely in that it focuses almost entirely on my father's involvement in a scandal to which he was tangential, and ignores the bulk of his journalistic career.  I won't pretend to be unbiased about this, but all I know is that when I meet people and they find out who my father was, they always mention his political commentary, not his involvement in the Stephen Glass scandal.  There are several useful sources which this article does not reference, including his New York Times obituary and his official biography at the Kelly Award website.  This strikes me as an article where a relatively small amount of effort could create a relatively large positive change; all an unbiased editor needs to do is look over these sources and update the article to reflect more broadly on his career, as opposed to a brief, if notable, chapter in it.
Also, would anyone object if I removed the "To hell with Michael Kelly" post on this talk page?  It seems quite uncivil, and I think if I saw an editor speaking so rudely of the dead on any other talk page, I'd delete the comments. — further, Francophonie&Androphilie sayeth naught (Je vous invite à me parler) 18:28, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Right right right.  I knew that rule and completely forgot it.  I'll give a specific request next time I feel like actual content-editing. — Francophonie&Androphilie (Je vous invite à me parler) 02:33, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: A conflict of interest is only a problem if the edit is problematic. No need for edit requests, unless it is an edit of a non-neutral or poorly verified nature. Drmies (talk) 00:33, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Very good point, and there are still a few noncontroversial things that could use some touching up. I just didn't want to look like a new user trying to pick up some credibility and then promptly get down to his real, COI-tinted motives.  Of course, my general laziness when it comes to actual content edits extends even here, so I doubt it should ever be an issue. Think I need to put up a  here, just in case? — Francophonie&Androphilie(Je vous invite à me parler) 00:45, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't know such a template existed. Again, I wouldn't worry about it. If an edit is highlighted and held up to scrutiny, whether it passes the neutrality test or not won't depend on a template somewhere but on its own merit. (I'm starting to sound like Pascal.) If your motives are indeed to turn this or some other article into a whatever, those edits will probably be scrutinized and reverted anyway. Just go ahead and touch up whatever needs touching up (a photo would be nice), and if it's more than a touch-up be mindful of the usual requirements. Sorry if that sounds mundane. ;) I need to read this article more carefully: he seemed like an interesting man, but I have some other issues to deal with right now. Happy days, Drmies (talk) 01:04, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Nope, sounds perfect.  À vous aussi. — Francophonie&Androphilie(Je vous invite à me parler) 01:06, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

text: F&A, if you have any pictures, a photo might make a good addition to the article. Λυδαcιτγ 11:26, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, yeah, I'll get to it. Leave it to me to procrastinate something that would simultaneously benefit my father's article and effectively prove my defense against any future sockpuppet accusations. Oh well.  But yeah, I'll upload one soon-ish. — Francophonie&Androphilie(Je vous invite à me parler) 11:35, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: A photo of Kelly with his family (including four-year-old Tom) would be a fine second choice, after a portrait-style photo in the infobox. Binksternet (talk) 14:41, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Btw, a photo of his grave would also be appropriate as the cemetery he's buried in has numerous well-known people and is thoroughly documented.Crtew (talk) 00:36, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  COI edit request 

message: Let's bring this article up to feature article status! Please contribute ideas below about what this article needs. Crtew (talk) 00:38, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I like your enthusiasm but there are prerequisites to writing an FA-Class biography. It would be very helpful to have a well-written book dedicated to describing Kelly's career, for instance. Chip Scanlan's Kelly bio at Poynter gets partway there but it is short on background, very short. My opinion (as an experienced editor of GA and FA articles) is that this biography can rise to GA with a little work but FA is probably too unlikely. Binksternet (talk) 05:41, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Feature Status 

message: I found the organization of this article to be a little odd and not really encyclopedic. Normally when I real a bio page, I expect the sections in this order: 1) Early life 2) Career (can be divided into early and later career, or into different topic areas or work areas, etc.) 3) Views, or discussion of critical analyses that sources have made of the subject's work, etc.  4) Personal life concluding with death, or in the case of a notable death (as here) maybe a section on death (as here).  Sometimes (3) and (4) can be swapped. 
However, it's really strange to read an article organized with early life followed by death (particularly a notable death, as here) leading the article before we even get to what else the man did during his career.  This may not have been intended, but there is a possible interpretation that the arguably heroic death of a war correspondent in combat is being used to draw attention away from the subject's notable involvement in scandal which occurs further down the page - or at least make the leading part of the article more positive. 
It would seem more consistent with the requirement for neutral tone to present the early life and career chronologically and end with the subject's death rather than leading with it. TheBlinkster (talk) 19:27, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article organization 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Michael Kelly (editor). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141016032951/http://gawker.com/5993525/a-stupid-death-in-a-stupid-war-remembering-michael-kelly to http://gawker.com/5993525/a-stupid-death-in-a-stupid-war-remembering-michael-kelly
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121019104635/http://pen.org/page.php/prmID/896 to http://www.pen.org/page.php/prmID/896
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Michael Kelly (editor). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://archive.is/20130201161256/http://www.salemnews.com/local/x1150899109/Five-years-later-Kelly-family-has-good-days-and-bad to http://www.salemnews.com/local/x1150899109/Five-years-later-Kelly-family-has-good-days-and-bad
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121202080122/http://kellyaward.com/mk_entry.html to http://kellyaward.com/mk_entry.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: As a non-US reader I found the sentence "Kelly was critical of the political establishment in both political parties" a bit unclear. I've added a link so it now reads "...political establishment in both political parties". Not sure if this is the best way to approach this? Any feedback welcome. Ascendingrisingharmonising (talk) 16:15, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  'both political parties' 

message: SouthernNights: It seems that you reverted my removal of Tom Scocca's opinion on Kelly's legacy – I should ask, what business does his opinion have in this article? I'd have to imagine that if it criticism is to be included, it should be from somewhere much more qualified than a sensationalist gossip blog... theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 00:31, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: The source is an opinion column from Gawker's editor at the time about Kelly's legacy. The column was referenced by Ta-Nehisi Coates in The Atlantic (who wrote it was a "very hard—and very fair—assessment of Kelly's role in the Iraq War"), by Michael Tomasky in The Daily Beast (who called it "a fantastic piece up at Gawker putting Kelly's death into what seems to me the proper perspective") and by Jonathan Chait in New York Magazine, among other places. This take on Kelly's life and legacy was influential, agreed with and supported by other reliable sources, and meets Wikipedia's requirements.--SouthernNights (talk) 12:14, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a difficult situation. Gawker is not a reliable source for facts per RSP, but we're not talking about facts here, but rather an opinion, and under WP:RSOPINION there are no reliability issues. The question then becomes whether the opinion is influential enough to warrant mention. I was planning to weigh in as neutral on that, but seeing SouthernNights' evidence of several high-profile individuals referencing it, I have to conclude that it's due and should be included.  talk 20:21, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: (COI comment)  I've avoided commenting on this passage for years, even when a few people in my family have asked me to, but since we're discussing it now, I will point out briefly that the words "As Scocca said" place the subsequent quote in the encyclopedia's voice, which I would say runs afoul of MOS:EDITORIAL and WP:NPOV. Changing it to something like "Scocca further wrote" would solve that, I think. I offer that without comment on whether the quotes should be included at all. Oh, and while I'm here, "Gawker" should be italicized.  -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she|they|xe) 07:34, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I've gone and made the suggested changes, including the italics, which I forgot to mention in my edit summary. I don't have any strong opinions about whether the passage should stay or go however. Graham87 15:42, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm totally good with the "Scocca further wrote" phrasing.--SouthernNights (talk) 17:20, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''Gawker'' as a source for a high-profile biography 

message: Would someone mind adding bidirectional hatnotes to this and Michael Kelly (journalist)?  here;  there.
(Or perhaps the latter should be at Michael Kelly (Irish journalist), with the "(journalist)" title redirecting here. I'd say this is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for a journalist named Michael Kelly, and both men are/were both journalists and editors, so I question whether "journalist" vs. "editor" is sufficient disambiguation.)  -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she|they|xe) 02:13, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Done ... I've moved the Irish journalist to Michael Kelly (Irish journalist). I also added an "other uses" to the hatnote because of Mike Kelly (journalist). Graham87 03:41, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request 3 July 2022