Talk:Santorini

message: I don't have a copy, but you do get discussion of the eruption and its possible links to the Exodus story in Ian Wilson's 1985 book "The Exodus Enigma".91.111.29.190 (talk) 22:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Speculation on an Exodus connection]]

message: ---
Years back I came across some poems from Egypt contemporary to Thera errupthion. They  spoke of dust falling cows and crops dieing, mothers eating dead babies. Anyone have anything on this? Wblakesx 19:58, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Alas, the Landsat photo has been replaced by a new  (very nice, but different) Image:Santorini.jpg  retaining its former caption. At the image page, the old image is retrievable. Can someone fix this? I'm hopeless. --Wetman 01:21, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

text: Archaeological evidence indicates that the (then) dome-shaped island was inhabited by the Minoans prior to 3200 BC when the Cretans invaded (but the Minoans were the Cretans of the time of the eruption); at this time it was known as Stroggili or Strongyle (meaning 'round'). A pre-Greek (linguistically) Minoan culture was followed by a "Mycenaean" Greek-speaking culture. Injecting separate "Cretans" into the chronology is inaccurate and confusing.  The name Strongyle: is it Greek? It can't refer to pre-explosion Thera. Wetman 08:30, 15 Apr 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  General 

message: The following text is a little bit chariot-of-the-gods: There have been suggestions that the eruption of Thera coincides with the Exodus of the Hebrew people from Egypt, possibly affecting the tides of the Red Sea to allow for their crossing. There have not been such suggestions from geologists, I'd be willing to bet. Would it be a great pity if this text disappeared? Any supporters of the Thera-parted-the-Red-Sea suggestions? --Wetman 10:02, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I did hear this theory from another source (probably Discovery Channel or something like that). There's also a theory that says the erruption might have caused the "pillar of cloud by day" and the "pillar of fire by night" the Bible talks about (see Exodus 13).
Current version of this is still unsourced ("some") and not to the standards of the rest of this artticle: Some  have speculated that the Santorini eruption and resulting tsunami resulted in the ten plagues of the Hebrew Exodus, with the Theran tsunami possibly affecting the Red Sea to allow for the Hebrews' crossing.  A significant time span is required between the ash-fall and the tsunami to correspond to events in the Exodus account. This would indicate a delay between the eruption and the collapse of the volcano that would be nearly impossible to document, and which has no currently known geological precedent." --Wetman 05:48, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

text: This theory has been advanced by A.G. Galanopoulos (as seen in Mavor's Voyage to Atlantis) and again stated in Charles Pellegrino's Unearthing Atlantis.  I have no idea who first came up with the idea (meaning if someone credible thought of it before Galanopoulos.  It's obvious that Pellegrino's book came later).  -- Pryaltonian 07:04, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

text: In regards to the Biblical connection between Thera and the Exodus, there is a very informative documentary by Jewish Canadian filmmaker Simcha Jacobovici called "The Exodus Decoded" which aired on the Discovery Channel.  The film was produced by James Cameron and highlights the effects the Thera eruption could have caused on Ancient Egypt using scientific and archeological evidence.  The film maker uses similar evidence to date the Exodus and the Thera eruption to 1500 B.C.E. As far as the parting of the Red Sea goes, the actual Hebrew translation is to the "Reed Sea", a much smaller salt/sweet water lake at the edge of the Nile Delta.  The documentary also links a proposed "earthquake storm," which may have resulted from the Thera eruption, to the Biblical 'ten plagues'.    Dryley 11:32, 29 August 2006
I tried to be as neutral as I could and add the new archeological evidence surrounding Exodus/Santorini connection.  However, given the contention around the evidence, I think it was better to reference the documentary and its "proposals" rather than present them as facts like the documentary did.  If anyone has a problem with the changes, please make edits and do not blank it completely.  Thank you.--Cryogenesis 15:34, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Thera and the Exodus?

message: The VEI has been claimed by F. McCoy to be as high as 7.  McCoy's claims, however, have not been published in the peer-reviewed literature.  This has been discussed recently by many people on e-mail, where it has been pointed out that Keenan (reference cited in the article) presented evidence that the VEI has previously been overestimated (because it included the ash from Crete--this is also discussed in the article). Daphne A 05:03, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: VEI is defined logarithmically: a VEI of 7 is ten times bigger than a VEI of 6.  Thus the "10 times greater than Krakatoa" claim implies a VEI of 7.  This is McCoy's claim again.  McCoy keeps making this claim to reporters, but he has yet to get anything published in the peer-reviewed literature.  As for surpassing Tambora, there is no way; Tambora's magma crater is huge!  If someone said that, they were unlikley to know what they were talking about.  —Daphne A 19:38, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  VEI (Volcanic Explosivity Index) 

message: the part on the eruption needs its own article, Thera eruption, otherwise it is drowning out the discussion of what is after all an inhabited island with lots of history besides the eruption. dab (ᛏ) 17:43, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: split?

message: I wanted to add info about the Biblical stories connection under the "eruption" section then noticed the link to the separate eruption article. It seems to me everythign after the brief intro paragraph under eruption is duplicating the second article. WOuldn't it be more concise to cover all eruption details in the eruption article, if there is going to be such a split? --Tokalon73 16:24, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The eruption article is the main article for the eruption.  The Santorini article contains a short section that summarizes the eruption article.  So there shouldn't be a merger; having things partially duplicated like this is common.  Info about the biblical stories should be more appropriate for the eruption article.  —Daphne A 22:49, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd second that. The subsection here should provide a concise summary of information at Thera eruption that directly relates to Santorini. --Wetman 22:28, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Merger proposed

message: Recent excavations as detailed on a History Channel Lost Cities episode indicate this Santorini (Thera) as a major center of the Minoan civilization.  Evidence also strongly points towards Akrotiri as the inspiration of Plato's Atlantis due to similarities of the Minoan city to his description (circular layout of island, ring of water around inner island in caldera, hot and cold running water, advanced architecture, etcetera.  
However, there is no mention of this island on the Minoan article and the Atlantis article needs to be updated.  I therefore suggest a larger inclusion of the newer Akrotiri information on the Minoan and Atlantis articles by someone qualified and willing to do the research.
-Mackson 2:05, 04 September 2006
I was able to obtain a copy of the History Channel show "Lost Worlds: Atlantis" that delves into Atlantis specifically (the other Santorini documentary was about the Exodus), and shows the similarities between Plato's description of Atlantis and the excavations at Santorini. Again, it is presented by archeoligists and other scientists. Here are some facts and conclusions from the documentary:
:*Sir Arthur Evans arrives on Crete in 1900 and began digging at a hilltop settlement called Knossos. The Minoans, as Evans labeled them, might be the Atlanteans mentioned by Plato. 
:*Minoans had an engineering excellence that would not be seen again for centuries. Evans unearthed a magnificent stone throne, which was at the heart of a 4,000 year old palace complex as big as four football fields. This palace had four floors, ten times as many rooms (1,300+) as the White House in Washington DC., and connected by miles of passageways. During the time of the Minoans, on the mainland, was architecture of 3 or 4 roomed mud/brick structures at best.  There was no grand architecture elsewhere at that time period.
:*The advanced Minoan plumbing system (hot and cold running water, and drainage/waste disposal) predates the Greek/Roman empire's plumbing system by over 1,000 years. This matches Plato's description of a palace where water was plentifal and "collected from the surrounding hills its supply was plentiful". 
:*Plato describes the palace of Atlantis as "an acropolis sitting atop a great hill." This matches the palace at Knossus. The entire hilltop was flattened, and terraces were carved so the palace could be built on multiple levels.
:*The large foundation blocks of the palace walls were constructed of crystalline stone called gypsum, quarried locally and cut into blocks with bronze saws. In the Atlantis myth, the external walls of the palace were said to "shine like silver" - which is how a gypsum wall would have appeared as it glistened in the sun.
:*The palace engineers were masters at controlling the path of air and light through the depths of the palace quarters. They devised systems that appear advanced even today. Internal rooms were devided using "peer and door partitioning", controlling the flow of air. A huge, four-story spiraling staircase was at the heart of the complex, forming a vast "light well" that reflected light into every room of the palace.
:*Since violent quakes were common in the area, the palace engineers devised anti-seismic techniques to butress the walls with wooden frames.
:*Minoan civilization disappeared suddenly, at the height of its wealth and power.
:*Around 1500 BC, the island of Crete was hit by a series of massive Tsunami's (at least ten) that came from the direction of the island of Thera (now called Santorini, about 100 miles from Crete).
:*Santorini is the site of massive caldera. Archologists discovered there used to be an island at the center of it. It was swallowed up by a terrible volcanic eruption. Evidence has proved this to be a massive mega-volcano eruption, one of the biggest in recorded history.
:*Plato described quarries on the island of Atlantis where rocks of white, black, and red were extracted from the hills and used to contruct a great island city. The description matches the rocks found in Santorini.
:*The island-city was described as being laid out in a series of concentric circles of land and water. Each one connected to the ocean by an immense canal 100 feet deep. Docks for a huge number of ships, and a causeway for unloading cargo of said ships, was also described.
:*The entire island of Santorini is covered by volcanic deposits that fell during a single volcanic eruption. This layer of pumice and debris is over 100 feet deep. Underneath it, archeologists uncovered homes.
:*In 1966 at Akroteri, archeologist James Maber Jr. uncovered an ancient city. The town remained substantially intact, like Pompeii, covered as it was in ash.
:*At Akroteri, there are 2 and 3 multi-story buildings. It had the earliest form of town planning (structured assembly of interconecting roads and paths) ever discovered. Again, with fresh hot/cold running water and toilets in each house, leading out to a sewer system. Many such sites have now been unearthed.
:*A fresco at Akroteri was unearthed that reveals what the island landscape looked like 3,500 years ago. It shows a huge city on the central island of the caldera, as theorized by scientists.
:*The final clue is Plato's reference to Egypt as the source of the Atlantis myth, via Solon. It is speculated survivors of the Minoan volcanic disaster asked Egypt for help, as it was the only other civilization near their technology level. Also, it has been uncovered that the Egyptions called Atlantis "Kepchu", their name for the people of Crete.
:*The scientists Dr. J. Alexander MacGuuvry (archeologist), Dr. Colin F. MacDonald (archeologist), Professor Floyd McCoy (vulcanologist), professor Clairy Palyvou (architect), and Dr. Garassimos Papadopoulos (seismologist) are featured prominently in the documentary.
--Cryogenesis 19:53, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would not trust a History Channel show.  They are the same company as the Discovery Channel which tried to link Atlantis to the Yamaguni Monument, which is ridiculous since Plato never heard of Japan and the Yamaguni was only discovered in the 1980s.  Same for the Pellegrino book.  Pellegrino needs to offer evidence that Plato in the 400s BCE had detailed information about the Minoans of the 1400s BCE other than the myths about Minos, Daedalus, the Minotaur, Theseus, Ariadne and so on, or about Thera of the same period.  Everything associated with Atlantis and Thera or the Minoans should be phrased more like so-and-so has suggested unless it's a peer-reviewed archaeological work.
4.249.63.240 (talk) 21:54, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Akrotiri -- Atlantis Connection 

message: The person who keeps putting those links on is coming from various anonymous addresses, so you couldn't block them directly. I wonder, though--is it possible to put a block on a url so links no longer work to it from WP? I dunno. 
It's worth checking the contributions list of the anonymous spammer--I've removed linkspam from another article as a result. Nareek 12:42, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think semi-protection is premature, nor is it yet appropriate (since it will block off some good contributors to the article).  I've requested, on meta, that go2santorini.com be entirely blacklisted, so that it cannot be added at all across Wikipedia.  We'll see if folks there take that up.  --Nlu (talk) 15:27, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I wasn't sure you could do that--that would definitely be a better option. Nareek 16:29, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Linkspam 

message: * Is the connection of Sir Arthur's expedition on Crete relevent for this article on Santorini? I think that a brief mention of Minoan culture in it's connections to what we know of the ancient history of Santorini is important, but the specifics of an expedition on a nearby island and the conjectors made from that should be removed. 69.163.33.37 15:49, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Connections between Minoan Advances and Santorini 

message: "Clockwise from the center"?  Where do you look after the center?  12 o'clock?  1 o'clock?  I'm not familiar with the islands enough to know.  Also, what are we supposed to be looking at? Cities? Islands?
--Eddylyons 21:21, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree this image could use some inline captions and arrows or somesuch. -- Beland 06:31, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have tried to clarify the caption, hopefully it should be clearer now Fitzgabbro (talk) 23:39, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Santorini from the air photo 

message: this page focuses too much on the single big eruption of 1500 bc and of claims concerning atlantis.  i visited this island a couple of years ago and i remember a map of the shape of the island over the years, which showed that the island has been repeatedly reshaped by major eruptions every 200 years or so. Benwing 08:59, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You may have a point concerning Atlantis, but there's no comparison between the many minor eruptions that built up the island and the single major one that destroyed it.  The minor eruptions make it like every other volcano on the planet; the major one makes it unique, at least as far as human history goes.  The article should certainly mention that Santorini had been created through a long series of eruptions and continues to erupt to the present day, but the point of this article is and should be the single eruption that created a miles-wide crater. Nareek 12:50, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  many eruptions 

message: I don't know the source of the stated population figure, but I don't think it's very meaningful without qualification.  Many of the Greek islands, including Santorini, are virtually deserted in winter, but crowded with tourists and temporary workers in the tourism sector during the summer.  Which state does this figure represent?  Rodparkes 09:03, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Query on population figure

message: In order to uphold the quality of Wikipedia:Good articles, all articles listed as Good articles are being reviewed against the GA criteria as part of the GA project quality task force. Unfortunately, as of 
September 19, 2007, this article fails to satisfy the criteria, as detailed below. For that reason, the article has been delisted from WP:GA. However, if improvements are made bringing the article up to standards, the article may be nominated at WP:GAC. If you feel this decision has been made in error, you may seek remediation at WP:GA/R. 
*Every statement that is challenged or likely to be challenged needs an inline citation.
*References should state the author, publisher, publishing date and access date, if known.
Regards, Epbr123 19:02, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: GA delisted

message: What were the circumstances of the annexation by Greece?  Was it a territorial advance during the First Balkan War or some sort of peacetime treaty? -- Beland 06:33, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Circumstances of annexation by Greece 

message: I don't know if this would be a random fact or something, but a city in Pokemon Ruby and Sapphire is based on Santorini, which is pretty awesome. It is called Sootopolis City in the game.
Also, a picture's caption is entirely wrong. "Houses built on the edge of the caldera" does not describe the soccer player's picture above it. HaLoGuY007 (talk) 02:16, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Image should be fixed now. You might need to refresh the page a couple of time to clear the previous image from the cache. But it's back to the correct image. El Greco(talk) 02:31, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sootopolis City in Pokemon and wrong picture caption 

message: We already have a Minoan Eruption article which is much better than this.  This bit is pretty rubbish. Exodus Decoded may have been good TV but terrible archaeology, and try telling a Minoan expert that "Minoan civilization disappeared suddenly, at the height of its wealth and power".  It didn't. Earlier the article says, correctly, "may have led indirectly to the collapse of the Minoan civilization on the island of Crete".  All this section either needs removing or rewriting, at the moment the Exodus Decoded stuff is clearly POV, for instance.--Doug Weller (talk) 18:58, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Thera hypothese

message: It might be worth mentioning that on BBC News recently, there was an article about a man who decapitated his girlfriend in Santorini and walked around the streets with her head. The gruesome event shocked the villagers. No joke, you can find the story online at BBC News: Europe.(Myscrnnm (talk) 21:31, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I found this:  Unfree (talk) 18:41, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: The Incident

message: The evening image is not of the same quality.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.161.69.75 (talk) 14:02, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: What happened to the day image?

message: Is it worth mentioning that David Gemmell wrote about the Thera eruption in his book Troy: Fall of Kings? Three major characters are priestesses there, and the eruption kills the bad guys. It causes a wave which sinks Odysseus's ship, referenced in the Odyssey, and causes chaos in Egypt, which is blamed on the rogue prince Moses. It is the pivotal event at the end of the series; should we put it down as 'in popular culture'?  Fuzzibloke (talk) 16:29, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Troy

message: I spoke to a man who works on Santorini today and I found out that Thira/Thera is generally used to indicate the major island in Santorini. Saying that Thira and Thera are substitutes for Santorini is probably not correct since Santorini is a collection of islands. "Municipality of Thira" is not proper because the capital city of the entire archipelago is Fira and therefore spelled as Φηρά (phi and not theta).
The first paragraph of the "Ancient and Medieval Santorini" is not well-written and therefore quite confusing. I suggest a revision of it.
I don't understand the meaning of "4.169-165" (regarding Herodotus).
ICE77 (talk) 20:41, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thira/Thera/Santorini is the name of the main island, and by extension the entire group of islands is called Santorini (it's in some extent the same case as in Hawaii, which name is the same both for the archipel and for the main island). Thera/Thira is the antic name, Santorini was the modern name until the island was rebaptized from its ancient name (the name "Santorini" has no official status as far as I know), but people continued to use the name Santorini. Fira can be also called Thera/Thira, because in every(?) greek island the capital city bears also the name of the entire island.--Phso2 (talk) 17:18, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

text: Are you sure that "this man who works here" is well informed? You didn't mention who he is.   Did you read the wikipedia article in Greek? (if no, it says Santorini is the name of the main island). It's no wonder the name Santorini can be used for the main island or the group of island, since the other islands are of very little importance. In Google map they use Θηρα/Thira for the name of the capital (it's one of the possibilities, Fira can be called Thira because it's the capital of the island), but they use "Ormos Firon" (with Φ) as the name of the port (since it's "the port of Fira"). In fact, both of the names (Fira/Thira) are "correct",  it's the same with the numerous "Chora" on islands. Iraklion and Crete are not a good example: the city was rebaptized (from an antic name) early XXth century, but for centuries before, the name of both the island and the capital was Candia/Candie. The problems of the names of greek cities is often complicated because of the many langages that were used in the country's history (in some case there can be a "purist greek name" and a "popular greek name", in addition to the "middle-age-but-still-used-name")--Phso2 (talk) 11:35, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

text: It's evident that I didn't ask you the name of this man or personnal details, I just asked how reliable he was (since he's a greek living there, he's indeed more reliable than a english musician working there for the season, for example...); I don't accuse you to invent things either. I just try to explain why there are such ambiguities in the names of greek islands cities. Now for the present discussion:  
*the article in english states Santorin is an archipel: I would say "Santorin (aka Thera) is an island that forms a archipel with other smaller islands". Look at this old map, it says "Santorin island (ancient Thera)". Why does this man say that Santorin is NOT the name of the main island? I don't know.  Anyway, the one who wrote the greek article (saying Thera/Santorini are alternate names) is also greek.
* on the island, street signs show Fira because it would make no sense to call it "Thira" in street signs, but look at the municipal districts in the municipality of Thira there, it says that "Thira (district)" is a municipal district of the "municipality of Thira", whose seat is Fira, small town of "the homonymous municipal district"(=Thira). This show how this locality can have different names, according to the way one thinks (as the capital city, as a locality among others, on street signs or on a map...) For other exemple: on Naxos (island) roads signs, "Naxos (city)" is written as "Chora" in greek, but Naxos (city) bears also the name "Naxos", not just Chora.
*for the Cretan example, I don't understand what you want to prove ("Going back in time proving your point is useless. I am talking about now.")??? The fact is, that most of the islands capital cities can be called by the name of the island, you won't find many examples against that. Besides, for Candia/Candie being used for the city AND the island, just have a look there or there or there or read an ancient book)--Phso2 (talk) 22:10, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nomenclature/paragraph/notation 

message: "... a notably small presence of hornblende."  What makes the smallness of the presence notable? Unfree (talk) 18:03, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Notable smallness

message: There seem to be several Saint Irenes. Which one did the Venetians name Santorini for, specifically? Lily20 (talk) 19:53, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Saint Irene 

message: There was a major cruise ship that sank in the caldera a few years ago. Cruise-lining gets too little mention in the current Santorini article. 91.82.36.49 (talk) 12:35, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vulcanic Titanic 

message: Have a look to the website of santorini cable car. Who writes some words about it?--Ohrnwuzler (talk) 21:02, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cable Car 

message: Currently, August 2012, the island in the centre of the Santorini caldera, has risen about 15cm in the last 18 months. 
Speculated at a rising bolus of magma. Suma rongi (talk) 08:31, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  2012 magma uplift 

message: When a vulcano with about 6 miles in diameter erupts in the see, what happens? Well, a huge Tsunami will start, buring every city within the Mediterranean see. So that's what the bible wrote about: (Mi)Noah. Makes all sense now...by the way I searched for this place for many years, it's unbelievable that we don't learn about this catastrophe in schools! --178.197.236.244 (talk) 14:42, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The Bible tells of a flood created by 40 straight days of rain. Your conclusion doesn't make any sense and it makes me doubt you actually read Genesis.--Atlan (talk) 19:44, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  The consequences of the eruption 

message: In the right-most column, underneath the Municipality of Thera coat of arms (labeled only as "Seal"), there's a thumbnail image that shows the location of Santorini in the Aegean Sea.  (The Aegaean Sea is unlabeled.)  The tiny thumbnail includes a red dot labeled "Santorini / Thera." 
When I click on the thumbnail, it opens to a big map of Greece, "File:Greece_location_map.svg."
Problem is that the red dot and its label are not being displayed on the big map, on my old XP laptop.  So when I click on the thumbnail in the Santorini article, I'm getting a big map of Greece that doesn't show where Santorini is.  If the problem only occurs on old XP laptops, then I'll accept it's a non-issue.  Thanks, Nei1 (talk) 00:50, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Map showing Santorini's relative location, or not 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: "Minoan Eruption" etc. doesn't really give a date or timeline on the eruption.  It could give est. 1500 BCE with some minor discussion as to dating.  I do know there are sources out there suggesting a more precise date, right or wrong. - madman101  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.251.111.154 (talk) 19:06, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Date