Talk:Car of Tomorrow

message: Could somebody clarify this buisness about the air intake being under the car?  Is it refering to air being directed to the radiator?  Is it refering to air going to the carburator?  I've never even heard of this feature before, and I've read my share of articles about it.  I'd like to see a refrence about that. Mustang6172 02:50, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's from the first reference article. All it says is that it is below the front bumper. I changed the "External links" section to "References", as those articles were all used as reference for this article. I hope this helps a little. Royalbroil 16:10, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Air intake 

message: The article said the changes were mainly due to the death of Dale Earnhardt, so I expected to see a discussion of the causes of the Earnhardt crash and how these causes would be corrected by the COT design. From what little I know about it, the safety issues in that crash centered around the seat belts and head restraints, and these do not seem to be part of the COT design changes. Maybe it is just the general increased concern for safety following Earnhardt's death and not specifically correcting the causes of the accident?Harold14370 21:18, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's my opinion. The death increased awareness. Another thought is that many drivers were constantly complaining that their model was worse than the others. The universal body killed the complaining, and the constant tweaking of each car model to make a leveler playing field. Royalbroil T : C 02:35, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The COT changes most directly related to Earnhardt's death are:  (1) The upper part of the roll cage is larger, making it less likely for a driver's head to hit a bar if his belts stretch, or if the cage is bent.  (2) The driver's seat is located closer to the center of the car (same benefits as #1).  (3) There are blocks of energy-absorbing foam between the side sheetmetal and the roll cage's side bars.  (These are what smoldered in the Bristol and Martinsville races.)  Barno 21:01, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Connection to Earnhardt Accident

message: I would like to see some clarification on the design section.  It mentions that the Car of Tomorrow was a response to the death of Dale Earnhardt.  It then states "The then-current cars were based on Holman Moody's 1966 Ford Fairlane." Is someone trying to say that there were no changes/improvements in NASCAR technology in 35 years?  I read the referenced article about Holman-Moody and could not see where this statement comes from. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Steelcitytbirds (talk • contribs) 14:42, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The statement used as the basis for the sentence is "The 1966 Holman & Moody Fairlane is the basis for today’s NASCAR racecars." from here. The statement needed to be somewhat modified because the Motorsports Hall of Fame article was written in 2005 before the design of the Car of Tomorrow was finalized. The COT was redesigned from the ground up. I take the MSHoF statement to mean that the previous car was slowly modified and tweaked as technology increased, but there was no major redesign from scratch. Obviously the 1966 car was different in almost all respects from the 2006 car. I bet there were a few things that had only minimal modification. Please edit the article if you think that there is anything wrong with either my interpretation of the source sentence or my wording. Cheers! Royalbroil T : C 04:02, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Royalbroil is correct here.  The basic chassis and suspension technologies from the H&M mid-sixties design have continued to be used, with NASCAR mandating a few specific changes such as adding specific bars to the structure for crash protection.  The COT, while redesigned throughout, is based on the same tech, differing mainly in dimensions such as the larger roll cage and roof section.  The biggest technical difference is the front splitter and rear wing replacing the previous air dams.  Barno 14:19, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There needs to be a source for this - "There are also a couple of new car designs being tested in hidden locations by famous stunt drivers like Tamara Flett and several others." --Carl Von Clausewitz 04:22, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed the sentence, as it is most likely vandalism (or at least unsourced speculation). Royalbroil T : C 11:52, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Design Section 

message: The article didn't answer this, are all drivers forced to use this model, or can they stay with the old models?  Dionyseus 18:15, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, they have to. --D-Day 18:34, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Are all drivers forced to use it? 

message: Does a criticism page backed up with references sound like a relevant and positive idea for this article? --FiftyOneWicked 20:30, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It sounds too negative and unneeded. One can often critize any major change like this to death. Royalbroil T : C 19:13, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My opinion is mixed.  Most of the criticism that can currently be cited is "passing news items" rather than stuff with encyclopedic relevance.  It's mostly singly-sourced early comments from drivers and crew chiefs after some testing, and a lot of the opinions changed after the first two COT races.  Probably some brief summary of the main lines of criticism so far can be made into a short section within this article; at this point I doubt there's enough substance (not "I'm not used to it yet so I don't like it") to merit a breakout article.  Barno 14:11, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A Criticism section should be tops for the CoT.  There are many developmental issues with the car to the point that it is becoming a safety issue with drivers.  This link is an example.  http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/tom_bowles/04/25/car.tomorrow/index.html For the record, NASCAR could go from possibility using only the CoT in 2008 to not using the CoT at all after the two May races it will be driven.  The latest problem is that the front bumper tends to drag and that will likely lead to a redesign.208.107.168.154 02:45, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

text: That doesn't make sense. Using a bungee cord to hold down the throttle would kill drivers. Do you mean holding down the throttle cable? That wouldn't be a big deal, although a tie down would make a lot more sense. Royalbroil 21:19, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism 

message: Are they going to run restricter plates with the CoT at super-speedways? PolarisSLBM 02:26, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I haven't heard anything, but I would expect them to use restrictor plates. Royalbroil 13:43, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Restricter Plates 

message: Ok this article has waayyy to much talk about how Hendrick Motorsports is so good with the CoT and how they are dominating with it.  I plan on editing some of that out and keeping it more neutral.KaseyKahne 06:29, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I support you. It is becoming a marketing piece. Royalbroil 12:02, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hendrick Motorsports 

message: the headlights are a decal, or not? CorvetteZ51 11:12, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. Please remember next time that wikipedia is not a forum. Royalbroil 13:27, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Headlights 

message: are the chassis identicle? Are/will-there be more than on
chassis constructor? people unfamiliar with the topic will want to know. CorvetteZ51 09:57, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  where did the 'outer shape', come from? does the shape seem to resemble any production car? If there isn't a Wiki article titled 'Formula NASCAR', there should be CorvetteZ51 11:27, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What is Formula NASCAR? I never heard of it. The Car of Tomorrow was a complete design from the ground up, so I'm guessing it does not resemble any specific production car. I haven't seen a highly technical article featuring the specifics of the COT. I will add these specs if I do. Royalbroil 13:24, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Formula NASCAR, sorta like, Fomula One, Formula Vee, Formula Ford, etc. An article where non-Nascar experts, could get an idea of the rules involved .CorvetteZ51 07:34, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You must be from Europe. Most things in America do not use the "Formula" monikor. There is no such thing as Formula NASCAR. Go to the NASCAR article. We don't have the complete set of NASCAR rules anywhere in Wikipedia. Someone needs to go to NASCAR's website if they want a partial list. Royalbroil 12:02, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

text: how much of the CoT is a 'Spec' car? At the Sonoma race,two cheats modified some body panels, and were caught. I assume that the body panels came from Nascar. (not sure about that) So that the body panels are 'Spec'. I assume most of the rest of the car is open formula.CorvetteZ51 11:44, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, the teams build pretty much everything on the car.  They just have to do it according to NASCAR's blue prints.  Hendrick's engineers thought that everything between the "hard points" was an open forumla.  As it turns out, they were very wrong.Mustang6172 20:52, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

text:  about the engines, the 'company', supplies the blocks and cyl-heads, everything else is by Fomula... or not. Also are the deck heights and cylinder spacings, the same,,, across, Chevy, Ford, Dodge, Toyota? CorvetteZ51 07:25, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: How exactly does this "discussion" help improve this article? Please read the note at the top of this page "This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject." Do you think we are insiders who know the inner workings of the teams? Royalbroil 14:03, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  what differences are left? 

message: I think the tone of ther article re:passing needs to be changed. Stats say that COT races actually have *morE* passes  -Ravedave 14:45, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Passing 

message: factory supplied, hood, roof, trunk,,,block, cylinder-head.
and the rest by formula. with aero-hieght adjustments to maintain competition? or something elseCorvetteZ51 15:18, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The teams make everything. Some teams make stuff like motors for other teams. The factory pays to have their sticker on the front. When I make these comments it's original research and it can't be used in the article. You would need to find reliable sources for this information and cite them as you add it in the article, so your time is best spent by researching. You can use us as a starting point for your research only. There has to be currently magazine articles that talk on these topics. Some of the these articles may be online... Royalbroil 16:03, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I want to stress that the teams make EVERYTHING - nothing has been factory supplied for decades. The Car of Tomorrow takes away the last thing that was related to factories: the cars no longer have any shape relationship to factory-built cars. There has been little shape resemblance to factory cars since the mid-1980s IMHO. Teams take sheet metal and bend it the "correct" shape. They control the exact shape of the car. NASCAR has rules that determine the shape at key points on the body. Some teams went to work in small areas that were not defined by NASCAR rules (and thus not measured by NASCAR templates) and did their own interpretation on how to shape the sheet metal. They were caught and have received fines and suspensions. As to the motors (block, cylinder head configurations, piston length, etc.), only the teams and NASCAR know exactly how things are done. That information is not common knowledge to NASCAR fans, but it is possible that it is published to the general public. You will have to research it yourself. NASCAR cars are VERY different than Formula One and Formula Ford cars, and there is little comparison (especially in the rules, procedures, and sanctioning bodies). Stock cars have always been on a different branch from open wheel cars on the tree of the evolution of racing cars. You need to think about things totally different. Sanctioning bodies do not provide parts for the racecars. Are you planning to add this information to the article, or are you just wondering? Royalbroil 16:25, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  The teams pour the engine block, or not? CorvetteZ51 00:47, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As to the motors (block, cylinder head configurations, piston length, etc.), only the teams and NASCAR know exactly how things are done. (pasted from above) Royalbroil 02:23, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

text:  Here is where the blocks come from, the XXX Compny's racing division.http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/news?slug=bm-newengines091306&prov=yhoo&type=lgns CorvetteZ51 03:55, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Notice that the top TEAMS are designing the blocks at the request of the manufacturer. These top teams are the same ones that for the last several years have made all of the engines that are used by all teams running for a manufacturer. So all Ford teams have been using motors made by a shop formed by combining the engine builders from the top two Ford teams Robert Yates Racing and Roush Racing. The car manufacturers (like Ford) only facilitate the motor design. Teams buy the motors directly from the engine builder. Royalbroil 04:34, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

text:  This is the story, I think needs to be told.Correct me if I am wrong. Current car : GM/Ford/Dodge supply, for their teams, castings for engine-block and cyl-heads, and three pieces of factory-production sheet metal. Carb is also specified.  Rest of car by their respective G/F/D Nascar formula. CoT differs in, sheet metal is now spec, and entire car, less engine, is now one formula. CorvetteZ51 01:32, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: They stoped using factory-production sheet metal around 2003 I believe.  At the time, NASCAR called it "aero equal".  Though I believe the engine block castings and cylinder heads may still be supplied by the manufacturers (however far from production).Mustang6172 03:16, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Mustang6172, thanks for your comment. . The current bodies, are very close to the size-shapes of their respective production car, or not. Is a type of rear-end specified?, perhaps the Ford 9 inch. Are any other parts exactly specified? Are flat crankshafts allowed?CorvetteZ51 04:39, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

text: the CoT is meant to resemble a two or four door sedan? Are there 'door-handle decals'? Two or four?CorvetteZ51 08:51, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, there are no decals or lines to indicate doors.  The Camry is a four-door; its two-door Solara variant looks less like the COT than the Camry does.  The body parts aren't the same as any of the street cars' shapes.  Many components (most engine, brake, and suspension components) must be purchased from a short list of NASCAR-approved suppliers, and only the part numbers with rulebook-specified materials and dimensions, not every super-thin magnesium-alloy prototype part that a supplier might want to try.  The rear end, actually from aftermarket suppliers, is the design known as the Ford nine-inch for the size of its ring gear.  You can get a rulebook for Nextel Cup if you buy a Cup competitor license.  If you race a Modified, Late Model Stock, etc. at a NASCAR weekly track, your license buys you a rulebook for that class.  Weekly supporting divisions don't have separate rulebooks; their rules are set locally. Barno 19:58, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm sorry, but I'm afraid that this information is very out of date.  NASCAR stopped allowing factory hoods when "aero equal" came into play.  The noses of the old spec were factory designed, but not stock.Mustang6172 02:52, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  the 'Car of Yesterday' consists of exactly what?

message: Poemisaglock 23:00, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  schedule 

message: I will do work and get all the PR and stuff that has been announced so far about the Busch series COT car and will intergrate it into this article, and keep it up-to-date with that as best I can. Fisha695 08:49, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Busch series COT 

message: The following, (currently left out), needs to be somewhere...Except for the engine, the CoT is a combination (closed) spec and formula car. The engines are believed to be 4 different formulas, with the bare castings for the block and cylinder head being supplied by the racing divisions of the four sponsoring car companies. CorvetteZ51 09:13, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The article reads like a fan club newsletter. 

message: The Title should now be changed to "Car of Today" or "New Car" because the term "Car of Tomorrow" is outdated. (65.2.178.153 (talk) 03:24, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The title will be what NASCAR wills it to be.Mustang6172 (talk) 06:28, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No one knows what it will be called this year (its common name). You should not be changing the name on the article until it is certain. Let's wait to see what the media calls it after a few races.Royalbroil 06:42, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Change Name 

message: Could we get a picture of a complete, painted car instead of just the body?Mustang6172 (talk) 02:44, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sure a Creative Commons image will show up on flickr shortly. You might even find a practice image now if you want to check it out. None of my flickr friends have uploaded one yet. Here's one from last year :Image:01ReganSmith army.mil-2007-06-25-081626.jpg. Royalbroil 03:12, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I uploaded an image for nearly every driver that raced at the 2008 Daytona 500. Take your pick of the images to add to this article. Royalbroil 06:04, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: New Photograph

message: The NASCAR Nationwide Series will have its own Car of Tomorrow in 2010. We should either have information about both of them here, or move this article to Cup Car of Tomorrow, create a second article called Nationwide Car of Tomorrow (or whatever name it takes) and convert this page into a disambiguation. The former option may make the single article too long; the latter will force us to fix hundreds of links referring to the Cup car. What do you think is better? --NaBUru38 (talk) 19:58, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The second, with a modification. Since both will be called the Car of Tomorrow, the Cup car should be called Car of Tomorrow (Sprint Cup) and the Nationwide car Car of Tomorrow (Nationwide Series). This is how we normal do disambiguation. Both get the normal name, and the differentiation is placed in parentheses afterward. Royalbroil 01:03, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Googling "Cup car" Nascar and "Nationwide car" Nascar gives tens of thousands of articles. Even killing the word "2010" gives a lo of results for such a specific search. That's why I suggest to use "Cup Car of Tomorrow" and "Nationwide Car of Tomorrow" rather than long, complicated titles with parentheses. Besides, it allows avoiding pipes in every link. --NaBUru38 (talk) 04:37, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The WP:COMMONNAME for each is Car or Tomorrow, so I stand by my original comments. The complicated titles are how we do disambiguation. See WP:DISAMBIGUATION. Royalbroil 11:45, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

text: This article's section on the Xfinity CoT says it has a longer wheelbase than the Cup car while the equivalent section in the Xfinity article says it’s shorter.  They can’t both be right. Mr Larrington (talk) 15:56, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nationwide Car of Tomorrow? 

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thread_title:  External links modified