Talk:Jagannath

message: :The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 
The result of the move request was: not moved, no consensus to move, and common name. --  JHunterJ (talk) 19:01, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: That pronounciation is only in certain languages including Hindi, but not Sanskrit as originally spoken, and not some modern languages either. I know that many Hindi speakers say these names without the final full 'a', but it's the Hindi that has changed. There is a continuing problem in getting consistency in naming here, but the general trend has always been to use Sanskrit forms for religious subjects. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Hinduism#Naming_and_Transliteration . Now if Jagannath was a name that originated in that form, say in the Hindi language, that would be different, but then we need to know the origin. I believe the name is old and from Sanskrit. Imc 16:49, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, Imc is absolutely correct on the Sanskrit-to-Hindi dropping of the final inherent 'a' (Juggernaut etymology). I believe the Sanskrit (and Hindi) spelling is जगन्नाथ (jagan-nāth). The question I have is, is there a local name for the deity, in Oriya or whatever the local dialect of Puri happens to be? Khirad 12:17, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In line with Imc's comments above does everyone agree that the article should be moved to Jagannatha as this is the more appropriate spelling? We would have to request it, as a page already exists with that title. Gouranga(UK) 20:13, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

text: The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move.  Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
It should be renamed to Shree Jagannatha from jagannath. It is accurate as per the local dialect and how we the people of Puri mention him. The name Jagannath is sounding like a hindi term and is an inaccurate translation of local term into English. Khanti Odia Pua (talk) 06:16, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rename 

message: Question; is the name correct, as the Sanskrit form? I believe it is Jagannatha in Sanskrit, and should be written so here. Imc 18:10, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That pronounciation is only in certain languages including Hindi, but not Sanskrit as originally spoken, and not some modern languages either. I know that many Hindi speakers say these names without the final full 'a', but it's the Hindi that has changed. There is a continuing problem in getting consistency in naming here, but the general trend has always been to use Sanskrit forms for religious subjects. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Hinduism#Naming_and_Transliteration . Now if Jagannath was a name that originated in that form, say in the Hindi language, that would be different, but then we need to know the origin. I believe the name is old and from Sanskrit. Imc 16:49, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, Imc is absolutely correct on the Sanskrit-to-Hindi dropping of the final inherent 'a' (Juggernaut etymology). I believe the Sanskrit (and Hindi) spelling is जगन्नाथ (jagan-nāth). The question I have is, is there a local name for the deity, in Oriya or whatever the local dialect of Puri happens to be? Khirad 12:17, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In line with Imc's comments above does everyone agree that the article should be moved to Jagannatha as this is the more appropriate spelling? We would have to request it, as a page already exists with that title. Gouranga(UK) 20:13, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

text: The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move.  Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.</div>
It should be renamed to Shree Jagannatha from jagannath. It is accurate as per the local dialect and how we the people of Puri mention him. The name Jagannath is sounding like a hindi term and is an inaccurate translation of local term into English. Khanti Odia Pua (talk) 06:16, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: The article currently gives the Oriya spelling as ଜଗନ୍ାଥ, this is composed of the letters JA-GA-NA-virama-AAsign-THA. I think this is illegal Unicode since I am not aware of any semantics for a virama followed by a dependent vowel sign. From what scribblings I can get here by people in Purī, I guess that the sequence without virama ଜଗନାଥ would be correct. Can anyone with knowledge of Oṛiā check? 113.19.60.151 (talk) 16:52, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oriya spelling of Jaganāth 

message: Hi
Today, I browsed the link to see some information on keyword "Jagannath puri".
Please refer - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagannath 
The very first photograph on right side which states the text below Photograph
"Jagannath (far right) with his brother Balarama (far left) and sister Subhadra
(center) in Radhadesh, Belgium"
My question is - why "Belgium" (as a link) is referred here (last word of above
text) and what does it signifies ?
Now when i enlarge this photograph the word belgium is no where found.(Also
there is no link of Belgium to jaganath Puri as far as i think).
Please refer (for enlarge photo)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jagannath_baladev_subadra_radhadesh.sized.jpg
(enlarged)
Any suggestion/solutions on this ?
- Gaurav  Bhambri
:I suggest you google "Radhadesh", or "Radhadesh, Belgium". Took me 5 seconds to find out what was the link between Radhadesh and Belgium...
:Alphos [bother me] 06:55, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Significance of "Belgium" (as a link) on very first Photograph? 

message: I am sure there are plenty of alternative histories for Jesus Christ.  The idea that Jesus went to India and learned the Vedas is kind of cute, but seems out of place in a Wikipedia article.  
209.204.147.112 (talk) 00:42, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jesus in India? 

message: I will have to do some research on that, sounds interesting. http://enetarticles.info  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bm009 (talk • contribs) 00:21, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sounds interesting 

message: I will have to do some research on that, sounds interesting. http://enetarticles.info  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bm009 (talk • contribs) 00:21, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sounds interesting 

message: The present article is highly sub-standard keeping in view the breadth & depth of the subject and the information base on the Cult of Lord Jagannath. 
Irrelevant material have been placed in the present article. 
Contributions from serious users are solicited to clean up and standardize this article, which pertains to a very important aspect of Hinduism. 
Softdynamite (talk • contribs) 13:31, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Room for Improvement 

message: Dear Subhasis,
Jaya Jagannatha. I am an Odia and a native speaker, if it is  at all relevant. 
1. It is never the assertion that "All Hinduism content are right and Buddhism are wrong" - the impression of Buddhism on the Lord's evolution is too obvious to be ignored. But what I contend is that 'Jagannath' at Puri is not an epitome of Buddha. Even if we accept that Lord J. is a buddhist deity, he can not be equated to Buddha/Gautama. Even in Indrabhuti's Jnana Siddhi, Jagannath was a deity whose consort was Vimala.
2. Use of Odia fonts is a most welcome thing, but if u use an open unicode type font, it would be better and the page would be legible in place of font errors like - "ଜଗନ୍ନାଥ" (5 squares) as I see on the screen. Please consider using *.jpg images in place.
3. Your contention that "simply deleting any content doesn't make the idea weaker that Jagannath doesn't have a similarity with any other Hindu deity" is not in proper direction. In view of this user, the idea that Jagannath is a tribal deity [Jaganeola/Jagana Kittung/Dadhi vaman/Purusottam Narasimha], who has been subsequently assimilated into Hinduism is undoubtable. I certainly agree that the Lord's origins are not in Hinduism, but I strongly disagree that it is Buddhist, instead.
4. Any topic on a deity can never be secular, by whatever measure. There has to be religious angles.
Regards.
(talk • contribs) 22:25, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reply - Edits made in Article Lord [[Jagannath]] 

message: The article has many issues to be tackled in its way to GA status:
* The complete lack of inline citations is the biggest hurdle. Please go through Wikipedia:Citing sources for more info. Dates, theories, quotes needs inline references.
* See Wikipedia:Manual of Style (linking): 
** Links should not be there in headings. 
** Ideally, a word should be linked only once in an article. Subhadra, Balabhadra, Indradyumna et al are linked several times
* The honorifics like Lord, Shri et al should be removed.
* External links go to the end of the page. Not in middle
* The spelling of Jagannath (Jagannatha, Jagannātha) is inconsistent in the article. Stick to one spelling
* Remove the  tags used in formatting
* Some claims like "Jagannath is non-sectarian" are absurd. I can provide numerous references where Jagannath in his present state is considered a Vaishnava deity
* Sentences like "not a member of the traditional Dashavatara" in the lead look out of place and contradictory, when the article says that Jagannath is portrayed as ninth of the Dashavatara in Orissa.
* The article should only focus on Jagannath - the deity; not his Puri temple or Puri in general. Topics like "Geography of the Jagannātha Centre: The Samkha Kshetra" are WP:UNDUE (Read this link).  While the discussion of the historicity of the Puri temple is necessary to establish the history of Jagannath, discussion of its architecture is undue. You can go through the FA article Vithoba, a regional form of Vishnu-Krishna, who has 1 primary temple at Pandharpur and a controversial pre-history and identifications with other deities. Vithoba article as well as deity is similar to Jagannath in many aspects and the Vithoba article faced similar issues while development. 
I will limit my suggestions to these for now and after you have actioned on them, I can present more comments to have achieve GA status.--Redtigerxyz  Talk  16:42, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Assessment and comments 

message: started work on improving language and adding references 
*sids 12:13, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Target GA status

message: I check pages listed in :Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of :Jagannath's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "ReferenceA":
From Roman Reloaded (song): 
From Nicki Minaj: 
From All I Want for Christmas Is You (Mariah Carey song): 
From Blouse: The Concise Oxford English Dictionary
From Mughal Empire: 
From Brahmin: The Tribes and Castes of the Central Provinces of India By R.V. Russell
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 09:01, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orphaned references in [[:Jagannath]] 

message: Jagannath considered as Buddha is not a mainstream view. The Mukherjee ref says that Jagannath = the Hindu Buddha avatar is a Hindu POV. The Jamanadas book claims many Hindu gods/temples like Tirupati, Pandharpur, Draksharama, Sabarimala are Buddhist in nature, not a mainstream views. --Redtigerxyz  Talk  18:43, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: #. Jagannath as the 9th Avatar of vishnu  is controversial, the article clearly states it with reference.
#. Sarala Das called Jagannath as Buddha.Indrabhuti called Jagannath Buddha.The Buddhist origin theory of Jagannath is stated by Alexander Cunningham[a pioneer in Indian archaeology],discussed by western scholars Kulke [got a Padmabhushan for his work on Jagannath]], Eschmann, Starza,Indian experts: Mahatab, Nilkantha Das, avinash Patra, etc.Even buddhist scholars like Angarika Dahrmapala have accepted merit in the buddhist argument.This theory is discussed in the article with the weak points pointed out too.The conclusion also points out that the Tribal origin theory is the most likely of  all theories
Sidsahu (talk) 07:53, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: 
# A similair question has been raised in 2011, see the talk page above, but they dont seem to have resolved their differences.Do you know any buddhist experts on wikipedia so that we can get the correct Buddhist POV.
Sidsahu (talk) 08:10, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

text:  Actually, (Sorry to be unclear) I was just questioning "worshipped primarily by Hindu and Buddhist[1][2] people" and  "Buddha by Buddhists" in the lead (ref Mukherjee and Jamanadas). Buddha replaced with Jagannath in Orissa is well documented and needs to be in the article. --Redtigerxyz  Talk  17:20, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: 
@retigerxyz:Have a look, the point you made has been rectified in the lead
Sidsahu (talk) 08:10, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Buddha 

message: * The etymology of Balabhadra and Subhadra is WP:UNDUE.
* (as an elevated platform or "Ratnabedi" ... ): can't understand what is the context here? Why is this sentence in etymology?
--Redtigerxyz  Talk  18:50, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: point 1 : removed.
point 2: tried to clarify, will also ask a Wiki Orissa administrator to have a look
Sidsahu (talk) 07:29, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: 
User:MKar has referenced and checked the etymology section,I hope the problem is solved
Sidsahu (talk) 14:23, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etymology 

message: * Rename to Iconography. Both words same thing
* Ratnavedi is UNDUE here. Are all deities needed here? Should the description stop at the triad?
* William Bruton's description is WP:UNDUE
* "The deity of Jagannath is about 6 feet tall (1.83 m)". "The deity of Jagannath" seems wrong. Image of. Also state that you are talking about Puri icon. Other icons also exist
* No description of Jagannath as human in Kanchi conquest portrayals or as in lithograph
--Redtigerxyz  Talk  06:57, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Iconography and physical appearance 

message: * Rename "Myths". Merge Kanchi conquest and Patita Pavana here
*  Mahabharat of Sarala Dasa: Wrong Mahabharata linked. Link to article on Sarala's work. The is missing
* It should be noted that... para. References needed. OR alert
*  in the Satya yuga -> the not needed.
* Puranic text Purusottama Mahatmya: not text, it is a section of the Skanda Purana
* Italicize texts
*  Indradyumna was a Lunar Dynasty king of Somavamsa lineage: Somavansha means Lunar Dynasty. Redundant
* the great God -> god. Common noun
* RS value of ref 33 is doubtful
* "In this world I will...." Quote needs ref.
* returned to Malava: Vidyapati returned to Avanti ???
* the Purusottama -> the not needed. Purusottama is not introduced
* Brahma: a non-Hindu may not know that he is a god. Mention that
* Tense problem: went/took (past) and then agrees (present). Make it uniform
*  on Vaishakha Sukla, on Pushya star.: what does this mean?
* Explain jargon: murti
* Club the common Vishvakarma part as well as relics of Krishna part. Repetitive. Reorganization of section needed.
--Redtigerxyz  Talk  07:14, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Myths and legends of the origin and emergence of Jagannath 

message: Skipping some sections
* Gajapati Purushottam Deva -> Purushottam Deva. Title not needed every time
* Amar chitra katha is not reliable
* This myth has been recounted by Mohanty [91]. J.P Das [92] . Name authors when citing views. In this text, they are not authors of the tale, so not needed.
--Redtigerxyz  Talk  07:45, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mythology of Jagannath 

message: The Jagannath#Tribal origins section has this broken English:
These assumptions state Jagannath with a class of aborigines, called Savaras, the peculiar shape as a pillar and typical nature of the wooden icon of the deity and his associates, Balabhadra and Subhadra; many scholars have held that Jagannath has originally been a tribal deity of Savara origin.
Could someone with access to the sources please reword this to convey some meaning to the reader? Please use simple straightforward sentences. -84user (talk) 13:23, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Broken English 

message: This article has had major copyvio and plagiarism issues of at least this source published in 2011 by Oxford University Press with copyright notice (see page 5 onwards, where someone had copied pasted numerous paragraphs without cites and appropriate in-text attribution). I have deleted much, for now, and I am not sure what we can do in terms of hard delete and how far we need to go. Just alerting you for now. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 05:18, 25 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Google preview won't let me look at that book from my location but I did find another copy of the material here. It appears to be somebody's thesis, and has a publication date of 2011. The paper was written in 2010 according to my research and is not a Wiki mirror according to my analysis. So I had to remove quite a bit of content. Revision deletion goes back to April 28, 2011‎, when the user began adding material copied from this paper. Thank you for the report. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 13:01, 25 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyvio deletes 

message: Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://www.academia.edu/1073170/Origin_and_Antiquity_of_the_Cult_of_Lord_Jagannath. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)
For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, providing it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you.  — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 13:01, 25 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyright problem removed 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110708233822/http://jagannath.nic.in/pdf/SYNTHETIC%20CHARACTER%20OF%20JAGANNATHA%20CULTURE.pdf to http://www.jagannath.nic.in/pdf/SYNTHETIC%20CHARACTER%20OF%20JAGANNATHA%20CULTURE.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080511154723/http://www.sanskrit.org/www/Hindu%20Encounter/foreword.html to http://www.sanskrit.org/www/Hindu%20Encounter/foreword.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 8 external links on Jagannath. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130402173714/http://jagannath.nic.in/histdaities.asp to http://jagannath.nic.in/histdaities.asp
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130402173714/http://jagannath.nic.in/histdaities.asp to http://jagannath.nic.in/histdaities.asp
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121029132340/http://www.srjan.com/dancedrama.aspx to http://www.srjan.com/dancedrama.aspx
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130530073442/http://jagannath.nic.in/pdf/THE%20TEMPLE%20OF%20JAGANNATHA.pdf to http://jagannath.nic.in/pdf/THE%20TEMPLE%20OF%20JAGANNATHA.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121022015102/http://nilachakra.org/Temple/festivals.htm to http://nilachakra.org/Temple/festivals.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121120171916/http://jagannath.nic.in/architecture.asp to http://www.jagannath.nic.in/architecture.asp
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130719004253/http://www.demotix.com/news/2242602/136th-jagannath-yatra-2013-ahmedabad-city-gujarat-begins-today to http://www.demotix.com/news/2242602/136th-jagannath-yatra-2013-ahmedabad-city-gujarat-begins-today/
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: ISKCON MOVEMENT REGARDING JAGANNTH IS TOTALLY BASELESS. This organisation is using Jagannath as a marketing product and misinterpreting the jagannath culture worlwide. So i think this portion should be removed from this place  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prachites (talk • contribs) 19:03, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regarding ISKCON MOVEMENT 

message: Chaitanya came to Odisha 500 years back . But the things mentioned here regarding Chaitantya and Odisha Vaihnvaism are totally illogical . kindly remove  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prachites (talk • contribs) 19:05, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regarding Chaitanya Movement  

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
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Participate in the deletion discussion at the . —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:22, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: This article lacks some information are very important . We can also add information such as other other names of Jagannath that are Jagabandhū  , Jagadhīsa ,  patitāpāvana. Sanskrit name of Jagannath (जगन्नाथः) . Jagannath in IAST form (Jagannāth) . Jagannath is also worshiped in Nepal and Bhutan as a form of vishnu and buddha. We can contribute more by adding the sign or mark of Jagannath cult that is Neelachakra(blue whee). I can edit this article in a very good manner and I can contribute also. I only want permission. Debiprasad91 (talk) 07:24, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Editing this article 

message: :
What does the bold phrase mean? —Tamfang (talk) 19:46, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Berlin states Starza 

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thread_title:  Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion 

message: I have been observing this article frequently. I found out that people have vandalised and the vandalism has gone unnoticed. I request someone to make this article fully protected to prevent this nuisance. Nishānt Omm (talk) 06:22, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please make this article fully protected 

message: The Buddhist origin section has been maliciously written and making statements that are not mentioned in the referenced sources, particularly from Starza and Abhinav Patra. I have decided to edit it to so as to remove the biases.
In the tooth relic section -"However, this is a weak justification because some other traditions such as those in Jainism and tribal folk religions too have had instances of preserving and venerating relics of the dead."
Starza only commented on the use of bones, tooth relic, ratha yatra bearing resemblance to a similar pocession mentioned Faxian and Jagannath being identified as the ninth avatar like Buddha. He said these manifestations of the cult are not sufficient to establish a Buddhist origin.
Also, "The same ancient monastic practice of 3-4 months temporary retirement of all monks and nuns, to take shelter at one place during the heavy rainfalls of monsoons, is found in the Hindu and Jain monastic traditions." note is not mentioned in the sources used as reference.
The caste system section is written with a lot of bad intent trying to imply its only supported by "colonial era Indologists and Christian missionaries". Hence I have added a reference to an Indian source by Archana Kanungo published by Govt. of Odisha directly.
The Sarala Das section is the worst. Here the editor is just pushing his own opinion - "However, in some these references Buddha is mentioned as incarnation of Vishnu or Jagannath, not vice versa, therefore Jagannath is considered as the source of all incarnations. Furthermore, the mention of Buddha as part of ten avatara was prevalent across many Hindu sects other than Jagannath cult and was a broader movement in Vaishnavism to incorporate Buddha as one of the ten main avatara of Vishnu between fifth and the sixth century, who was in turn linked with Jagannath as a source of all avataras starting from Jayadeva of 12th century. So, the mention of Buddha as Jagannath does not proof the Buddhist origin of Jagannath, rather assimilation of Buddha in Hinduism."
He referenced multiple sources(including some hindu encyclopedias) that just talk about Buddha being the ninth avatar of Vishnu. None of these sources talk about Jagannath. Hence, I have moved them to the relevant paragraph. A lot of these sources actually have nothing to do with the topic of Jagannath originating from Buddha. Witchilich (talk) 10:12, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Don't put quotes in authors mouths and write statements they never made.