Talk:Hiberno-English/Archive 1

message: Mitch with the same meaning is still used in the Westcountry, even amongst my generation. sjc
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Is there any particular reason that "mitch," of all the vocabulary available, is the only example included in this artcile? I'm not familliar with the language, but perhaps it could be made clear that this is an example, as opposed to being a particularly important word, which is how it looks now. BarkingDoc
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Where does 'mitch' appear in Shakespeare? I put into two complete works searchs & got nada.
Alastair Rae
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"Marry, this is miching mallecho; it means mischief." (Hamlet, Act III, Scene 2)In this context, it seems to mean just 'mischief'.
Rbreen 21:14, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Mitch

message: :the word mind is sometimes used for the word remember.
::e.g. "I mind when I was a boy"
:::Mintguy
I've never heard that usage. It is used for "take care/of" - "Mind yourself crossing the street", though I'm not sure that's an exclusively Irish usage. -- Jim Regan 16:20 22 Jun 2003 (UTC)
:"mind" meaning "take care" is famously English. On the London Underground you continuously hear a recording of "Mind the gap" as you step on or off the train. Hippietrail 06:11, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Mind

message: I can't figure out where to add to this article either, so here goes (should be familiar to British viewers of Father Ted):
* ye is used for the second person plural
* feck, means steal, or rather "take without permission", and is used as a euphemism for the word "fuck"
- The word feck does not mean to steal -- OFDM 02:26 Dec 22, 2004 (UTC)
: I beg to differ: feck absolutely does mean to steal where I come from in Dublin, but connotes minor or petty theft. For example He fecked a bar of chocolate from the shop would be typical but He fecked a million quid from the bank would be contrary to normal usage. --EmmetCaulfield 19:46, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  There is definitely a usage of feck meaning to steal, and I believe this is the only one mentioned in the recent Dictionary of Hiberno-English.  However feck is also used to mean to throw, i.e. "I fecked an apple over the wall".  I haven't been able to detect any particular geographic distribution of these uses, but most people usually hold with one or the other --Ryano 17:43, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Feck

message: * lad is used as a euphemism for penis
* eejit is a mis-spelled, mis-pronounced version of idiot
- While eejit has the same meaning as idiot this is not an accurate staement of its origin. -- OFDM 02:26 Dec 22, 2004 (UTC)
: I've also heard it pronounced (in Cavan) with a g (as in golf) as eegit --EmmetCaulfield 19:46, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Lad and Eegit

message: * The "a" is father is generally pronounced fah ther or fah der rather than faw ther
:This is consistent with Shakepearian english: Full fathom five thy father lies. [The Tempest].  The A in fathom and the A in father probably sounded the same for the verse to scan.
* gobshite means fool
* Many words also in use in Britain, such as arse for ass, bollocks for testicles, shite for shit
Jimregan 13:46 Apr 26, 2003 (UTC)
:Contrary to the assumption that "fah ther" is a particularly Irish pronunciation, "faw ther" is a particularly American pronunciation which is not used elsewhere. Hippietrail 06:11, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: According to "The Oxford Dictionary of Pronunciation for Current English" (Oxford University Press first published 2001) the American and British pronunciations are the same, except for a long vowel and of course the case of the rhoticity at the very end. -- SS 22:25, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

text: Most people I know would say something very similar to the word 'fodder' with a slightly longer vowel sound.  I've also heard (in Tipperary) a pronunciation somewhere between 'feh der' and 'fey der'  Amanita 09:38, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sound of A in Father

message: The present tenses example is wrong. An bhfuil is just the interrogative form of ta. The example I would use is "Tá tú anois" vs "Bíonn tú gach lá" - you are now vs you be every day.
Alastair Rae 15:45, 7 Nov 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: Present Tense

message: Craic (Crack) may well be from Scots and Northern English.
: I have removed the reference to "crack" because I believe it not to be derived from Irish ("craic", like "sessiún", is a recent gaelicisation). I think I have seen Jane Austen use "crack" in the sense of lively conversation, and there are usages like "wisecrack" in non-Hiberno English. It is, however, clearly a feature of Hiberno-English, just not of Irish-language origin. BrendanH 09:09, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: As mentioned above, craic is a modern gaelicisation of crack.  It does seem that this spelling is becoming predominant, as it helps to distinguish between the two main forms of cra(ck/ic).  However, it may also mask the word's most likely origins in Scots and/or English. --Ryano 09:23, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Crack/Craic (but not cocaine)

message: In my experience of living with Irish expats in the last couple of years, the most stand-out Irishisms I notice are "after" as mentioned, plus "your man" to refer to any specific male person, and "the last day" to mean yesterday. Hippietrail 06:11, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: After

message: Agreeing with Paedia, I don't recognise any basis for the statement:  ["Aren't I" is considered to be perfectly grammatical in Ireland, however.].
This almost looks like vandalism to me.  Is there any disagreement to my removing it?  If nothing by 11/4, I'll do so. --Red King 20:33, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Aren't I? ?????

message: True, 'Irish' almost always refers to Irish Gaelic. However, American references Merriam-Webster Online and American Heritage Dictionary (4th ed.) list as Gaelic or English. If Oxford is the authority in Ireland, then we maybe could exclude 'Irish'. Cheers, Pædia | talk 15:16, 2004 Apr 29 (UTC)
The above statement is highly confusing. If you are talking about changing the Word 'Irish' to 'Gaelic' in a dictionary or a wikipedia page you should note that Irish people never use the word Gaelic to refer to the language. The language is called Irish (in English at least) and i wouldn't use references that are inferior to the wikipedia/wikionary and undemocratic.
: Agreed - if you want to use the word Gaeilge feel free, though it seems a bit silly since we are not speaking in Irish.  The only other word that should be used for the language is Irish. Dave 22:39, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Irish (English) 

message: What about a reference to the use of "them" instead of "those"?  "Look at them houses over there"
And the use of the word "lamp" to mean look? "Lamp dem houses over dere like."  Ok, perhaps lamp is only a Cork thing.
:...I suspect you're right. The variety of accents and lingo around Ireland is nothing short of insane. I was down in Kerry recently, and attempted to have a conversation with a local - both of us had quite a hard time understanding one another! I'd have found it no less effort to interpret, were he speaking Irish. Zoney 23:43, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Them for those 

message: Any particular reason for the page move from Hiberno-English to Hiberno-English language?
zoney ▓   ▒ talk 12:04, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Gilgamesh has done this to all the "major English dialects" and is discussing it with others who don't agree on his talk page. I don't think I like it myself, after all, all these dialects are not independent languages in themselves but dialects, and so the page titles really don't sit well IMHO. Blorg 12:42, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page move 

message: Another peculiarity I've noticed in Northern English is the use of "whenever" instead of "when". In the South "whenever" implies a continuing reaction or emphasis, for instance "Whenever I went out without an umbrella, it always rained". But in the North you hear things like "The roads were safer whenever I was young". --Attila the Pooh 10:58, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Whenever 

message: Is this weird usage of "Come here to me" refering to "continue listening to me" or "start listening to me" Ireland only? Don't want to add it without checking... Kiand 13:43, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Also "C'mere I want yeh" in Limerick - though this is more to get someones attention. zoney ♣ talk 15:27, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  C'Mere to Me 

message: When relating events, to "turn around and" (do s.t.) is a common idiom. It usually seems to indicate that what is about to be related is out of the ordinary, as in "He turned 'round and thumped me!". It is often used to indicate (possibly exaggerated) assertiveness on the part of the speaker, as in "I turned 'round and told him to get lost"  --EmmetCaulfield 19:46, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  He turned around and said... 

message: In the section Preservation of older English usage,
User:82.6.178.123 tacks onto the paragraph:
:"mathematics" (and maybe other -ics words?) is, in old-fashioned usage, treated as a plural noun, taking a plural verb and substituted with a plural pronoun.
::My son thinks mathematics are interesting, and he's good at them.
:Not a single person in Ireland would use the above phrase, opting for the abbreviation "maths" and treating it as a singluar [sic] noun.
::My son thinks maths is interesting, and he's good at it.
Can we resolve the disagreement and remove the blatant contradiction from the entry? My two cents: As an American, I've always thought of the random pluralization of "obviously" singular nouns to be a generally British and Irish thing: "the football team are playing in the playoffs this year," for example.
—ajo, 25 Feb 2005
:The "team" example is entirely different, as the plural comes from the fact of substituting "team" for "team members". Generally a group is referred to using plural in English here. zoney ♣ talk 01:58, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  mathematics: plural or singular? 

message: :I grew up in Stoke-on-Trent, lived in Sheffield, Colchester and Dublin.  I've only ever heard these phrases in Dublin:
:"Come here and I'll tell you..."
:"Come here while I tell you..."
:"Come here 'til I tell you..." etc.
I used to walk up to people when they said this, thinking maybe they were about to whisper something secret, but they never did.  This would even be used during phone calls.  I presume the meaning is pretty much 'Listen to this...', sometimes 'You won't believe this, but...'.  If you've been talking about somebody's unusual/bad behaviour, and someone there has a story or anecdote about them, they'll usually precede it with "come here..."
Jenks 19:05, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  This probably relates to the "c'mere to me" section above 

message: :Now is often used at the end of sentences or phrases as a semantically empty word, completing an utterance without contributing any apparent meaning. Examples include "Bye now" (= "goodbye"), "There you go now" (= when giving someone something), "Ah now!" (= expressing dismay), "Hold on now" (= "wait a minute"), etc.
Is this really specifically Irish usage? I don't know how universal it is among English speakers, but we certainly have it in the United States. It's not particularly common, but it's not uncommon. Certainly I'd think nothing unusual upon hearing any of the phrases above and I'm entirely unfamiliar with Hiberno-English. Come to think of it, I've heard it enough in British productions, too. What English-speaking dialect doesn't have this usage? - furrykef (Talk at me) 00:39, 19 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Now" 

message: Is 'cheerio' not an Hiberno-English way of saying 'goodbye'?--feline1 12:04, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Doubt it.  Though its use has rather died out in England: mainly heard now only in pre-1960 era movie dialogue. --Red King 13:21, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

text: I wouldn't disagree with that.  The question for this article, though, is whether it is distinct dialect (Irish or Ulster Scots words or grammar transposed into English), or just a figure of speech that is popular in a particular area.  Cheerioo nai! --Red King 19:09, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: cheerio

message: I noticed there's no mention of the common use of "aye" among Irish English-speakers. I propose adding this to the article:
Alternatively, it is common for Irish English-speakers to use the word "aye" as a weak form of "yes" (somewhat akin to "sure" or "yeah").
* "It's getting late, is it?" "Aye, it is."
* "Do you like that?" "Aye."
--Matro 08:39, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: As a Sligoman, I'd like to point out that the use of 'Aye' is quite common here. It's not a NI thing, it's more a North Connacht/Ulster thing. --Kgaughan 23:18, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Definately "north of Ireland" and not Northern Ireland thing. --Kiand 22:40, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Aye

message: I wrote this new section. Sorry it's mostly brand names and products and stuff, but I can't think of any other commonly used indigenous words (that aren't derived from Irish) at the moment. I'm sure there's more... OK, just thought of some - "washing the wear" for washing dishes, and "delph" or whatever it is. I'm sure there's loads more - maybe list will eventually be big enough to be moved to a dedicated article at some stage? --Zilog Jones 23:27, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure I see a clear distinction between the "Lexicon" section and the "Turns of phrase" section.  Perhaps they should be amalgamated? --Ryano 11:59, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I see "Lexicon" as individual words, whereas "Turns of phrase" are a group of words.  --Red King 13:13, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lexicon Section 

message: I think the reference to the RTE Guide should go, to be honest.
:So do I.  Any defenders? --Red King 18:47, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  No - I've deleted it. --Ryano 11:56, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Candidates for deletion

message: An anon editor added:
* 't' is rarely pronounced as a plosive when not at the beginning of a word, instead being a fricative between 's' and 'sh'
Does this ring any bells with anyone?  "Water" is "Water" everywhere except the midlands, where it is "Waher" or even "Walker".  "West" is "West" everwhere except Mayo and North County Galway, where it is "Wesht".  So I don't get it? --Red King 16:04, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: yeah but in Ballybumbum and similar Antrim-type locations, "water" is pronounced "watter", with "wat" rhyming with "vat", and the rhythm being like "hatter"--feline1 17:45, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

text: A "soft T" is certainly characteristic of some accents, and increasingly heard on the TV and radio.  Classic example is the pronunciation of the word "British" - often closer to "Brishish".  It's something I would associate particular with the DART (Dorsh) and RTÉ (Or-Tschee-Ee) dialects. --Ryano 16:41, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  As somebody from the northwest, it rings a bell with me. The sound is referred to as a slit-t or tau Gallicum and the sound is technically described as a voiceless alveolar non-sibilant fricative (which is why the description of if being between an 's' and an 'sh' is way off the mark: they're sibilants). It's actually very, very prevalent, and has been subject of several studies and papers, mainly because it's an oddball phone that IPA can't transcribe. It also occurs in Liverpudlian English, which it was brought by Irish immigrants (ref). See the article on Voiceless alveolar fricatives for more details. --Kgaughan 23:45, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Most words with a t (or two) in the middle, in Dublinese, are pronounced without it (or them) - wa'er, le'er, gu'er. Donnacha 20:01, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Pronunciation of the letter T

message: Could someone translate the approximate spellings, such as 'Dja kneww whad I min?', into IPA? —Keenan Pepper 07:13, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  IPA please 

message: Could the word "gurrier" (a steet urchin in Dublin idiom) come from the French "guerrier" (warrior), indicating Anglo-Norman or even Huguenot influence?
Indeed, perhaps the influence of the Huguenots on Dublin idiom and accent deserves more study. (There is a Huguenot cemetery in central Dublin.)--PeadarMaguidhir 18:53, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gurrier 

message: The etymology of "whiskey" or "whisky" is the irish words "uisce beatha," meaning the water of life. Curiously, in the dialect of Irish spoken in Connemara, County Galway, the word used for whiskey is "fuisce," indicating that the word has reentered the Irish Language via English!--PeadarMaguidhir 18:44, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Whiskey 

message: Most Americans in at least the Northeast use "scallions" as the only word for what others might refer to as "green onions", "spring onions" or even "multiplier onions". In fact, I didn't know of these other terms in the US until a few years ago; and I'm 34! Of zero Irish heritage, I grew up and lived all over the Greater NYC area including urban New Jersey and downtown Manhattan and not once did I hear anything other than "scallions". However, some people would call scallions "shallots", but then again, they probably had never seen or used the latter since they're a part of French and other cuisines but not American cooking. This last fact also holds true in Quebec where most people don't know what either a shallot or a scallion is and call both "échalote(s)".  -- CJ Withers 04:01, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scallion 

message: Do both American and British English really use a couple to mean exactly two?  Canadian English certainly does not.
"A couple" can refer to two people in a relationship, but typically
"I had a couple of beer" means "I drank two or three (less likely four or five) beer".
"A couple of guys just went by here" doesn't imply exactly two, but like 2 - 5
and in other cases it might be even more "I was doing a couple of clicks over the limit" could easily mean speeding by 10 kilometres an hour.
I'm really not sure, just wanted to throw it out there and see if anyone knew WilyD 14:28, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Certainly the usage in Hiberno-English is that a couple means two, anything more than two is a "few". --Ryano 16:51, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Not so sure I agree with you, Ryano (i.e. I disagree!). I reckon that in Ireland "a couple" often means three or four. It's certainly striking how precisely it means exactly two in England, and how much looser a concept it is in Ireland. Also, Dolan's Hiberno-English Dictionary says couple means "a few". Snalwibma 19:10, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I always thought a "couple" means two and "several" means three or four no matter where you are in the world. Mark 13:44, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

text:  Fair enough, my observation was unscientific in any case, but I will perhaps do some field research over the next few days.  Of course, as original research it won't be admissable for WikiPedia, but I'm just curious :) --Ryano 13:56, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Okay, so if we take it as "a given" that a couple means two in HBritish English, can we find a source that it also means two in American English - I'm not sure how to check that.  The Wiktionary claims that American English shows some flexibility on the number of things that consitute a couple, with the obvious exception - a couple being two people in a romantic relationship.  But who knows how reliable that is?  I sure don't. I'm not sure if there's a moral to this rambling story - it just struck me as very strange sounding that American and British English both used couple to mean exactly two, when Hiberno & Canadian English mean "more than one, up to maybe four or five" WilyD 14:27, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Taking a highly nonscientific and noncitable survey, I found that when asked "If I went to the bar and had a couple beer, how many beer did I have?" all Americans I asked (one) said "Exactly two" but all Canadians said "2 or 3" or "2 to 4".  Maybe the claims about American & British English are true. WilyD 13:52, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would disagree strongly that British usage means always exactly two. Not at all. The usage of 'couple' always carries a degree of imprecision. 'A couple of beers' means at least two, but quite possibly more. Similarly "I'll be away for a couple of days", "I'll be back in a couple of minutes", "it's a couple of miles down the road" imply at least two, maybe more, but probably less than five, I would say. Colonies Chris 22:33, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

text: I'm Canadian; me and my associates all think a couple is exactly two... Miken32 20:07, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Couple 

message: Removed the phrase 'of Guinness'.  Both the words 'scoops' and 'jars' are used irrespective of what people drink.  The only reason I can see for mentioning Guinness is to add in an Irish stereotype. Dave 18:19, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scoops 

message: The article states that Irish, similarly to Portuguese, lacks words which directly translate as "yes" or "no". However, "sim" is the translation for "yes" and "não" is the translation for "no", just like "sí" and "no" in Spanish. Is it ok to remove this? augustojd 08:18, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well i would guess that since you have not found it to be the case, then sure, unless some one would like to refute it. --Boothy443 |  trácht ar 03:58, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Snalwibma has already taken care of this. --augustojd 10:26, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Being a native portuguese speaker, I should add that you we do not use the word 'yes' (sim) to reply to a question. For that we would naturally use the main verb. For instance: "Quer café?" to which the answer would be: "Quero." (lit. "You want coffee?" "I Want."). Aengus br 00:37, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yes/No do exist in Portuguese 

message: Hiberno-English is the form of the English language used in Ireland. Hiberno-English is also called Irish English and rarely Anglo-Irish.
I have to disagree with this statement. I live in Ireland but I have never herd the word Hiberno-English used before. Occasionally I would hear Irish-English, but Anglo-Irish is the term most commonly used. Ken 19:41, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hiberno-English is a common term applied to the form, Encyclopedia of Ireland cites it under this. Irish-English is just a bit confusing and Anglo-Irish is a somewhat outdated term generally applied to literature, society and treaties rather than a modern language. Djegan 19:50, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I agree strongly that Hiberno-English is the best term. Consider the standard dictionary, which is Dolan's Dictionary of Hiberno-English. That doesn't mean that people in Ireland use the term - we are more likely to say "Irish English" or "the kind of English we speak here", or indeed just "English". Anglo-Irish is completely different, or at least has very different connotations. It refers rather to the literature in English written in Ireland (Yeats, Joyce, etc), and/or to the "West British" generally protestant (former) "ruling" classes (trying to remain PC here...). I would never consider using "Anglo-Irish" to describe the language, and I don't think others do so either. To my ears (and grammatical sensibilities), "Anglo-Irish" seems to refer to a version of the Irish language, not a version of English. Come to think of it, should the words "and rarely Anglo-Irish" be removed from the beginning of the article? Snalwibma 06:20, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Disagree. "Irish English" is an established term for the English language as spoken in Ireland. "Hiberno-English" refers more specifically to those features or dialects of Irish English that reflect the influence of the Irish Language (Encyclopedia of Ireland says this).  Many terms in Dolan's "Hiberno-English" book are pure Gaelic (some but not all with anglicized spellings). Thus John A Murphy can comment that nobody in Ireland speaks Hiberno-English any more (the remark is disputable, but is not self-contradicting nonsense).  "Anglo-Irish" (while it has other senses as Snalwibma indicates) has been used relatedly; the first edition of the OED uses it for Hiberno-English, though the third edition appears to be using "Irish English" e.g. for "crack" (hadn't got "craic" spelling last time I checked the website).  The 1960 Thomas Davis lectures (from memory) describes "Anglo-Irish" as the creole spoken by those native speakers of Irish Gaelic, who learned English in adulthood or at hedgeschools; when they reared their children through English these would speak Hiberno-English.  This present article should be called "Irish English" so we can talk about Ulster English, Dortspeak, standard vs dialect, cultural cringe, breakfast radio, Americanisms, etc.  Maybe there is enough material for a separate Hiberno-English article, but that's not the right name for a more general survey. jnestorius(talk) 12:09, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hiberno-English, Irish English, Anglo-Irish 

message: Anybody know the etymology of this? The bird was giving out today because she was "cross with me" and it got me to thinking about my time in the States where I always had to explain myself to the poor benighted people when I described somebody as being "cross with...". 193.1.172.166 19:47, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I doubt very much if it derives from Irish. It's standard usage everywhere in these isles.  Besides which, the origin of the phrase seems straightforward (at least on first glance) - think of 'cross purposes' and cross winds and so on - there's a natural semantic connection with contrariness.  Apparently the usage first appears in writing in 1639. The Yanks have just lost it.  garik 22:16, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Cross with you

message: Philologists may be interested to note that, since last Sunday (9 July 06), a new phrase has entered Dublin vernacular: "I'll do a zidane on yeh."--PeadarMaguidhir 09:37, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Zidane, surely? Even with Dublin word-messing, it wouldn't end up "Zadine". --Kiand 22:37, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Zidane 

message: And how about this one? Do they say "he's going on to be a doctor/ teacher etc' in Standard English? If not, what's the source? 193.1.172.163 23:43, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: 'Going on to be a...'

message: it might be great if there's a sound file of speaking irish english. (maybe reading the article in irish english?) Janviermichelle 15:52, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  sound file 

message: Two Westmeath guys next to me: 'If they (Westmeath) got a goal they'd take the look off it'.
What a lovely turn of phrase. (Westmeath was losing to Dublin by 9 points at the time). El Gringo 20:31, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Overheard in [[Croke Park|Croker]] today

message: 'Hiberno English' is a meaningful, real world term. 'Dublin English' and 'Cork English' are meaningless terms! There are Dublin and Cork phrases and accents, sure, but there are not separate languages or dialects in Dublin or Cork.
This seems like typical Irish parochialism to me. Dublin has to have its own accent, and a token comparison to London. Then Cork has to have an entry because Dublin has an entry. It is claimed that the Dublin "dialect" is completely different from those of other parts of the country. Firstly, there is no such thing as a Dublin dialect: when two people speak a different dialect, such as people from north Germany and the Swiss (German speakers), there are genuine difficulties in understanding each other -- it's not just the difference in accent. Secondly, where is the evidence for this difference? I would argue that the inner city accents of Dublin, Waterford and maybe other places have similarities. Words like 'boy' and 'girl', used in Cork, are certainly not unique to Cork city, being used in almost every sentence in Waterford city.
I mean where does it all end? I'm sure Limerick and Waterford could have sections as well, being industrial centres of long standing, having a ton of local slang. And I'm sure there are towns out there with pretty odd accents and more than a few strange phrases.
I suggest that the Dublin and Cork "English" sections be moved to a separate page on Irish Accents. They have no place on a language or dialect page. Merlante 16:42, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Dublin & Cork English

message: I regularly used the term cat in Dublin, sometimes in English, but particularly in Bearlachas, as an abbreviation of catastrophic - which was sometimes used for emphasis. This would make it less a piece of Hiberno-English and, in fact, the exact opposite (Bearlachas) that's passed back into English. Donnacha 11:43, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Note on Dublin Irish - given the tendency of most Irish schools to have teachers from all parts of the country, the origin of this could be anywhere. Donnacha 11:44, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, the more I think of it, I remember the pronounciation cyatastrophic, thus reminding me that it was generally Donegal Irish speakers who used it! Donnacha 11:46, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Cat again