Talk:Anagram

message: This is the English language Wikipedia. English translations of the non-English phrases would be very polite.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.165.239.87  (talk)  23:06, 18 October 2002 
-----
"fr:Contrepèterie" is not an anagram. At best it is a Spoonerism, though not quite, because Spoonerisms are usually involuntary slips of the tongue, while a contrepeterie is usually deliberate. -- Tarquin 22:36 Nov 28, 2002 (UTC)
-----
Palindromes and logograms are not anagrams.  I have removed the following text as it does not belong here:
: Another species of anagram, called palindrome (Greek palin, "back", and dromos, "running"), is a word or sentence which may be read backwards as well as forwards, letter by letter, while preserving the same meaning; for example, the words "Anna," "noon," "tenet," or the sentence with which Adam is humorously supposed to have greeted Eve: "Madam, I'm Adam!"
: A still more complicated variety is the logogram (Greek logos, "word"), a versified puzzle containing several words derived from recombining the letters of the original word, the difficulty lying in the fact that synonyms of the derived words may be used.  Thus, if the original word were "curtain," the word "dog" might be used instead of "cur." 
-- Paul G 11:00 Dec 4, 2003
----
I'm working on disambiguating links, and found that there was a link to Hebrew in this article.  I'm not sure how it should be handled in this context—whether the word "Hebrew" should be linked to Hebrews or to Jew (in which case it should just be de-linked, since there is already a link to Jew).  See also the Hebrew disambiguation page.  Thanks. 
--LarryGilbert 04:04, 2004 Mar 3 (UTC)
----
The last sample anagram right now, of Abu Ghraib torture, strikes me as more topical than good.  Should it really be included?  
4pq1injbok 23:22, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Old messages (before 2005)

message: I have flagged this page as needing some translation work done.  If anyone can speak Latin, then by all means please provide some translations of the various phrases in the history section. Proto 11:26, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation of Latin 

message: Here are two fun anagrams of "the free encyclopedia":
:a deep info cycle there
:race to fence idle hype
—Herbee 04:08, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: * Anagrams for WP's slogan amount to SELF, and thus do not belong in the accompanying article. So the discussion of them is off-topic on this talk page, and is struck thru to ameliorate wasting of the time of those reading this talk page for the purposes it is intended for.--Jerzy•t 06:09, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  The free encyclopedia 

message: Okay, I've started with minor cleanups, focusing on:
*Consistency of form, punctuation, capitalization and italization
*Removing extremely obscure anagrams which are not at all notable or understandable without an explanation, or which have no explanation (non sequiturs)
*Adding a section for celebrities and other persons -- more will be added
*Removing extraneous text
*Replacing a couple of equal signs (=) with tildes (~) for anagrams which form a complete sentence
I will look at others, but I truly do not see many more that are egregiously non-notable.  For the sake of brevity, however, perhaps a few could be trimmed.
paul klenk talk 14:07, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  First attempt at clean up 

message: There doesn't appear to be much enforced criteria for distinguishing between the basic list and the "notable anagrams"; some anagrams even appear in both. Why is it that the five-letter lemon/melon is more notable than some with several dozen letters? There needs to be more clarity in there; and on a side note, it wouldn't hurt to cut some of the shorter and meaningless examples from the list either. Andrei Iosifovich (talk) 19:41, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is notable? 

message: This list is excellent, and will help you understand what a quality anagram is.  It is a good crash course in evaluating anagrams, and will actually help you appreciate anagrams more.  Complete explanations of these hallmarks, with both positive and negative examples thereof, are in their full form here:
:http://www.anagrammy.com/anagrams/faq5.html
#Aptness
#Directness
#Grammatical correctness
#Avoidance of incorrect spelling
#Clever use of punctuation
#Minimal use of interjections
#Brevity
#Careful use of non-keywords
#Well-mixed letters
#Avoidance of contrived subject texts
#Self-sufficiency
#Humour
paul klenk talk 14:06, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Hallmarks of a Good Anagram, from Anagrammy.com

message: The I am Lord Voldemort anagram is out of place here. AFAIK the name was specifically designed to be an anagram of something. — JIP | Talk 11:23, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree.  Many literary names are designed to be anagrams.  Anagrams are not necessarily accidental.  If it's an anagram, it's an anagram.  Now, I'm not saying this particular anagram is notable, nor deserving of mention on Wikipedia.  Only that I do not agree with the thinking behind this opinion.  paul klenk talk 09:50, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  I am Voldemort 

message: Since the anagram list has become rather long, and filled with random original research, I've moved it to a separate article, which should be cleaned up and only include notable anagrams that have been used in literature or other reliable, verifiable sources. — 0918BRIAN • 2006-02-3 04:03
* That article has now been deleted. Mglovesfun 19:41, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Moving list of anagrams

message: Call me sceptical if u like, but it strikes me as just too coincidental that the Romans called the art of finding anagrams ars magna, which just happens to be an anagram of "anagrams".  It really sounds like an urban myth to me (but a very good one, admittedly).  Is there any documentary evidence of this?  JackofOz 09:24, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not likely.  In this hilariously scathing review of The Da Vinci Code, Michael Browning of the Palm Beach (FL) Post quotes Alan Cameron, a professor of Latin at Columbia University.  "...Romans do not, in fact, seem to have liked anagrams. I can't say that I conducted a protracted search, but I couldn't find what we would nowadays call a true anagram..."  Browning notes that Cameron published an article on ancient anagrams in the American Journal of Philology (Fall 1995; Vol. 116; No. 3). — 69.138.9.90 13:53, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Once again I forgot to check whether I was signed in -- that's me (69.138.9.90) above.  —OtherDave 13:58, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "Ars magna": an urban myth?

message: How many nine letter words can you make out of the word Orchestra?
I've found one: Carthorse If you can find any more, I'd like to know.
-- Jesusfreak 01:17, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A program I wrote doesn't find any more.  Bubba73 (talk), 01:21, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This discussion may interest you.  Oops, I now see you were involved in it, but maybe others would get a giggle.  JackofOz 07:03, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orchestra ----- Carthorse 

message: What is the English word with the most single-word anagrams?  Where would one go to find this information?  JackofOz 03:41, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know what it is, but I could determine it.  But that would not be permitted to be in the article because it would be original research.  Bubba73 (talk), 05:39, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd be interested in knowing anyway, even if it never makes it into the article.  What's your methodology?  JackofOz 05:57, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  TRACES has sevem anagrams including itself (CARETS, CASTER, CATERS, CRATES, RECAST, REACTS, TRACES). There are probably better candidates out there. For the moment this is all I could come up with.Sluzzelin 14:27, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Here are the 11 SOWPODS words for those letters
* ANESTRI 
* ANTSIER
* NASTIER 
* RATINES
* RESIANT
* RETAINS
* RETINAS
* RETSINA
* STAINER
* STARNIE
* STEARIN
Xtallographer (talk) 19:09, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Word with the most single-word anagrams

message: : In the following box's content, the bullet points are emphasis with the results of the 2 timestamped edits of one user. 
*In "Anagrammatic" an online interactive game provided by Miniclip, worldwide players follow the rules of "Countdown" (above) where they are given 30 seconds to form the longest word out of nine letters. After four rounds they are asked to form a nine letter word. Points are awarded and subtracted accordingly. Players enthusiastically converse on the game's forum using a variety of graphics, mostly thanking each other for games but also complaining bitterly about the words which are rejected by the ruling dictionary. Players use pseudonyms (Little Brat, Little Taz, Tori Amos, Spellerbee etc)and have created a hierarchy based on the awarded points which progress from light pink stars to black stars. Once a player's points reach 20,000 the game automatically resets a player back down to zero. A variety of cheats have emerged on the game - players using internet anagram solvers etc, hackers creating new points - but invariably the game is played by the rules. The frustration of the players regarding the dictionary results in creative use of language since cussing is automatically censored in the forum.
A few points
* Non-notable, there are thousands of internet games that use anagrams, this article is not intended to be a list of all of them, especially is this game is basically a copy of Countdown (which itself has been shown on British TV for 21 consecutive years). In fact this sounds like the same game as "anagramania".
* Useless information such as 'variety of cheats and hackers' 'frustration of the players' 'creative use of language since cussing is automatically censored'
Forgot the best one : "Players enthusiastically converse on the game's forum using a variety of graphics, mostly thanking each other for games but also complaining bitterly about the words which are rejected by the ruling dictionary".
* Under the same lines, we could put all the Scrabble variants like literati, clabbers, upwords and whatever in the article, but this article is not intended to be a definitive list of them. 
Mglovesfun 19:22, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anagrammatic 

message: My name is an anagram. Shoeshirt 23:52, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  (Personal name) 

message: marriage-----a grim era public relations----crap built on lies television----tv is one lie the assassination of abraham lincoln----a pistol in a rebel actors hands a fine man shot supreme court----corrupt? sue me   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.126.203.186 (talk) 02:49, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Anagrams

message: Didn't Dr. Seuss use Theo. LeSieg (Dr. Seuss backwards) on some of his books? It might be signifigant enough to mention. Also, some of the anagram examples are a little inappropriate, such as the anagram of Spiro Agnew. These are simply used as examples, and therefore have no need to be explicit or sexual. - Wiggystud 11:13, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Dr. Seuss

message: This article is kind of swamped with examples. I suggest moving the bulk of them to a new article Anagram examples (or similar). On the other hand, since that article will no doubt then be nominated for deletion, and subsequently deleted, should we just delete them now and be done with it? Matt 03:21, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: * What does unencyclopedic mean? If the goal of the article is to explain what an anagram is, then having a diverse set of examples is illuminating.  --209.6.218.51 (talk) 03:59, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: * "Unencyclopedic" means unwanted by WP. I would expect the grounds for not wanting it would primarily focus on the list in question having to many examples to infer what the diversity amounts to, and lists of them being more suitable to specialized sites than to a work that thrives on integrating a wide variety of diverse topics. You're bound to learn something, tho, by perusing Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of anagrams.--Jerzy•t 11:02, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Examples 

message: I have noticed that various things fall short of being properly referenced: the "summary anagram" isn't well attested as a genre, and the "Anagrammy" site needs third-party support to appear here. The point about no trivia lists should be well taken. In general, content policies should be applied to give a better article here. Charles Matthews (talk) 09:16, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I have taken those two sections out - I don't see the independent references needed to establish why they are here. Charles Matthews (talk) 12:27, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: After some further cleanup, I have ventured to take down the "original research" tag. Charles Matthews (talk) 19:24, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

text: This is an encyclopedia article about anagrams, not a repository for anagrams people come up with (which is anyway a foolish idea, really). Additions made that have no particular point will be removed eventually, as part of ongoing cleanup. The topic is clearly not "all anagrams ever in English". Charles Matthews (talk) 08:42, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  But that the nature of my question.  "Additions made that have no particular point will be removed..."  What criteria warrants addition or removal, or worthiness of being in the article?  MJ56003 (talk) 03:28, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Cleaning up the article

message: I asked a question recently at Wikipedia:Reference desk/Language#Letters of a word rearranged to make two words about the word that can be rearranged into the highest number of two-word anagrams.  The best we've come up with so far is "impersonated/predominates", which produces 495 using Wordsmith.  An anon editor has suggested a different search engine would produce even more, but hasn't come back to give the details.
Does anyone know of a word that produces more than 495 two-word anagrams?  --  JackofOz (talk) 20:44, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Two-word anagrams

message: : I'm afraid you're just ignorant (not meant as an insult, but a statement of fact), not old-fashioned. From the Oxford English Dictionary, "anagram":
:;Etymology
::  < French anagramme, or < modern Latin anagramma (16th cent.), < Greek ἀναγράϕειν, to write up, write back or anew. Ἀνάγραμμα was not in Greek, though the grammarians had ἀναγραμματίζειν to transpose the letters of a word, and ἀναγραμματισμός transposition of letters.
:; 1.
:: A transposition of the letters of a word, name, or phrase, whereby a new word or phrase is formed.
::*1589   G. Puttenham Arte Eng. Poesie ii. xi. sig. iijv,   Of the Anagrame, or posie transposed.
::*1616   B. Jonson Epicoene iv. iii. 48 in Wks. I,   Who will..Make anagrammes of our names.
::*1645   J. Howell Epistolæ Ho-elianæ vi. vi. 185   This Gustavus (whose Anagram is Augustus) was a great Captain.
::* ?1706   E. Hickeringill Priest-craft. 2nd Pt. iii. 36   The true Anagram of Jesuita, is Sevitia, Cruelty.
::* 1858   T. Carlyle Hist. Friedrich II of Prussia II. vi. ii. 14   Arouet Junior (‘le Jeune, or l. j.’), who,—by an ingenious anagram..writes himself Voltaire ever since.
:The last three quotations -- all the actual examples in the OED -- use the fact that Latin did not distinguish I from J or U from V ("IVLIVS CÆSAR"). So
:* GUSTAVUS = GUASTUUS ≅ AUGUSTUS
:* JESUITA = IESVITA ≅ SEVITIA
:* AROUET L.J. = AROVET LI ≅ VOLTAIRE
:--Thnidu (talk) 22:29, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  re-arrangement of letters = anagram 

message: From the article: All the letters in an anagram must repeat exactly once.
There is no "V" in "Twelve plus one", so I'm taking it out of the examples.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.93.224.250 (talk) 11:32, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually it is a perfect anagram (there is a V in TwelVe). Erector Euphonious (talk) 01:28, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

text: Oh wow..  just..   oh wow. Skootles (talk) 05:45, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Eleven plus two = Twelve plus one" is not an anagram 

message: Margaret Thatcher = that great charmer
Alec Guinness = genuine class
Vin Diesel = I end lives
Steve Martin = I'm star event
Clint Eastwood = Old West action
Sean Connery = on any screen
Lady Gaga = a glad gay
Oprah Winfrey = Hype worn fair
Tom Marvolo Riddle = I Am Lord Voldemort
Axl Rose = Oral Sex
Elvis Aaron Presley = Seen alive? Sorry, pal!
or more succinctly: Elvis = lives.[25]
From "Perfect anagram games and puzzles".
Aren't these a bit Biased?
Most of the anagrams on this page are either about a famous person's sexual orientation:
Madonna Louise Ciccone = Occasional nude income 
or they're in latin:
"Ave Maria, gratia plena, Dominus tecum" ... into "Virgo serena, pia, munda et immaculata"
Can we please have some less biased anagrams? How about "Anagram maker" = "Karma Manager"?
Thank you. --David Gardner  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.114.243.75 (talk) 21:10, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This is an article about the topic "anagram", not a catalogue of anagrams. All content should be illustrating some point. Charles Matthews (talk) 15:13, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

text: Osama bin Laden can also be found as... Abandon Emails; An Islam, Bad one!; Old man in a base
JJTsai (talk) 10:18, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV? 

message: Should there be a list of anagrams? There used to be a number of anagrams of famous people(i.e." Clint Eastwood" is turned into "Old West action") and some stories of anagramic scams. I think they should be preserved somewhere in Wikipedia. JJTsai (talk) 10:24, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: List of anagrams?

message: I have brought back the Latin letter values, since it is necessary information for understanding historical anagrams, even in English.
Also, I'm not convinced that merging "perfect anagram" and "imperfect anagram" games is helpful. For example Scrabble is more like an imperfect anagram game with some letters in fixed positions. Being great at perfect anagrams is not the key skill, it seems to me. Charles Matthews (talk) 15:17, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Edits

message: Juat changed the page from four edits on 21 August 2010 which appear to be vandalism. The fact that these edits were preceded by four other edits which also appeared to be vandalism and were also reverted seems suspicious. Apologies if it is not vandalism, but that doens't strike me as likely. PowerToast (talk) 07:01, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Five separate edits that could've easily been condensed into one... and the IP address responsible has never made any other contributions... weird... 76.81.52.243 (talk) 18:48, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism

message: Are jumbled letter such as ogd for dog or chosol for school still anagrams even though they aren't actual words or just things like god to dog or whatever. If jumbled words are not anagrams this should be include in the main article clearly. Thanks. Please respond. Aidan Greenhalgh.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aidan Greenhalgh (talk • contribs) 07:51, 10 December 2010
:No, the rearrangement has to yield a real word, name, or phrase. See the definition from OED above, in re-arrangement of letters = anagram (emphasis added): A transposition of the letters of a word, name, or phrase, whereby a new word or phrase is formed. --Thnidu (talk) 22:33, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is anagram just for words that are already words? 

message: "However, the goal of serious or skilled anagrammatists is to produce anagrams that in some way reflect or comment on the subject."
I disagree.  Yes, anagrammatists always like to find these, but I hardly think it's a "goal".--Pittsburghmuggle (talk) 10:19, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wording in opening 

message: "Ardue main d'Hercule" (2 u's and 1 i) is not an anagram of "Armand de Richelieu" (1u and 2i's) as the article states. Is there a spelling error?
Bmedwar (talk) 10:58, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mistake in article. "Ardue main d'Hercule" / "Armand de Richelieu" 

message: "Ars Magna," a short documentary film about the obsessive and fascinating world of anagrams http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isH75q3As3k
--Jerome Potts (talk) 08:06, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  A (PBS) Youtube vid of interest 

message: This is a most unfortunate example, since Marie Curie's French title was not 'Madam' but 'Madame', so the anagram doesn't work! If 'Madame' is used in English as a title for women, then always in the French form - 'Madam' is used as a form of address ('Certainly, madam'), but never with the woman's name, so 'Madam Curie' doesn't exist.213.127.210.95 (talk) 15:01, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  'Madam' Curie 

message: I've removed the example
* Shakespeare's Hamlet is an anagram for the Danish Prince Amleth.
Though it's an anagram, that's purely coincidental; Shakespeare didn't invent it, and neither did anyone else. It's widely accepted to be simply a descendant of the older name or one of its variants, like Edward from Anglo-Saxon Éadweard. See , and
: It is well-known that Hamlet is related to Amlethus, found in Gesta Danorum, by Saxo Grammaticus."
Please  me to discuss. --Thnidu (talk) 18:23, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not "Hamlet" 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Anagram. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081004220025/http://1911encyclopedia.org:80/Lycophron to http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Lycophron
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 07:58, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: should there be a paragraph/section stating that there are non-word anagrams? i will show an example of what i mean.
Awdry-Dryaw.
Dryaw is the name of a station in thomas and friends. Awdry is the last name of the man who wrote the railway series.
neither of these words are real. --JGalaxy19 (talk) 23:38, 24 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: No. This is just trivial. Any name can be turned into an anagram by changing the letter order and then using the result to name something else. Meters (talk) 23:46, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

text: I said nothing about sources. It's simply not worth mentioning. You can make an anagram out of any random string of letters too, but so what. Meters (talk) 00:04, 25 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  non-word anagrams 

message: I suppose that anagrams work in other alphabets (Cyrillic, Greek) in a similar fashion, with some license for related letters.
But, are they used in abugidas, syllabaries, Hanzi, Hangul?
Do they have special rules and licences
Currently there is only one Hebrew example.
--Error (talk) 09:38, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  In other scripts 

message: Part of this article reads "In Hebrew, the name 'Gernot Zippe' (גרנוט ציפה), the inventor of the Zippe-type centrifuge, is an anagram of the word 'centrifuge' (צנטריפוגה).[citation needed]"
Why does this need a citation? Can't you tell those words are anagrams by using your eyes? Sandyplease (talk) 00:04, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citation needed?