Talk:Zajdi, zajdi, jasno sonce

message: Зајди, зајди јасно сонце
зајди помрачи се
и ти јасна ле месечино
бегај удави се.
Црнеј горо, црнеј сестро
двата да црнејме
ти за твојте лисја ле горо
јас за мојта младост.
Твојте лисја горо сестро
пак ќе ти се вратат
а мојата младост ле горо
нема да се врати.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jingiby (talk • contribs) 17:28, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Song Lyrics

message: Can you please source the usage of the song before claiming it entirely as originating from the Republic of Macedonia. ForeignerFromTheEast 17:02, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Come in Macedonia and hear for yourself... Filipgd 17:07, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please provide a source. ForeignerFromTheEast 17:09, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  The formulation I use quite neutral even for your thinned standards, therefore you should not worry. Your formulation on the other hand is this-is-a-song-from-the-planet-Earth one. It needed a specification... I merely specified... Filipgd 17:23, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, please provide a source for the usage? Anyone can write an arbitrary description. ForeignerFromTheEast 17:24, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Would one require a source that kalinka is a Russian dance? In similar manner, this song is Macedonian of origin. I, least of all, deny its popularity around the Balkans Filipgd 17:28, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Kalinka (song) has a source. You have provided none for your claim. ForeignerFromTheEast 17:29, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Wrong, I invited you in Macedonia to see for yourself where has the song originated. Come here, be my guest... I'm sure we'll be able to settle down a lot of things. Filipgd 17:34, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have asked you to provide sources, read Wikipedia:Reliable sources. Claims should be backed up and I'm not simply going to take your word for its usage. ForeignerFromTheEast 17:36, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Search Google for yourself and see how many sources deem the song Bulgarian. That's it... Filipgd 17:41, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Oh, come on, there was such a case a couple of months ago and ended up with an admin proposing the article for deletion (and it was later deleted as a result). Stop with the POV pushing already. --Laveol T 19:02, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Huh? Did you even read Jingiby's edit? Fut.Perf. ☼ 22:59, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good work tracing the refs for the song Jingiby. --Laveol T 18:26, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

text: I really don't understand why someone read Filip's bullshits. With Filip I know from MK.W, where he abuse all bulgarians issues, he don't work for good Wikiproject, he work for some his beliefs, for exaple non stop in MK.W he define bulgarians like fashists and chauvinists. For several times especially for him, editors showed and showed sources but he just said "I don't trade with my history" and did't show even one source. This is your style, Filip just dispute and express your hate to bulgarians. For him I know that i tnink his father is serbian and his mother is macedonian, and he live in Serbia. It's possibly this info to be a serail lie. For me Filip is clacical vadal who transform Wiki in FORUM.  --Li4kata (talk) 11:50, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

text: This has to be the most someone has "argued" indirectly against the practice of giving references. The usual case of the (typically Balkan, I should know) "It is widely know and accepted that..." followed by something very controversial. There shouldn't be a place for this in Wikipedia. Hopefully any claims, whatever they are, not backed by tangible, reliable references will be deleted. Ivan Marinov (talk) 14:49, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Usage

message: The user Titikaka1 has removed sourced material and all references to Aleksandar Sarievski. Please discuss changes on this talk page before making such huge changes. --Hegumen (talk) 15:47, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This song (lyrics + musical accompaniment) is not the same song as Cernej goro, but rather a derivative work (and then, only in terms of lyrics). When Bulgarians sing Zajdi zajdi to Sarievski's music and claim it as their own, that's just preposterous. --Hegumen (talk) 00:42, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: We're such monsters, ain't we, stealing your cultural heritage (sarcasm warning). --Laveol T 00:48, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I still think Chernei goro should have it's own article. BalkanFever 01:20, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

text: That would be good. But still, calling it a Bulgarian song has no basis (other than the "Macedonians = Bulgarians" reasoning). --Hegumen (talk) 10:24, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You mean besides the song being sung in Bulgaria? And besides the fact that the text is written by a Bulgarian revolutionary (from those that have nothing to do with Macedonia). --Laveol T 10:54, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

text: My class sung Time of Your Life by Green Day at our matura evening, does this mean I can go ahead and add that it's popular in Macedonia? --Hegumen (talk) 03:26, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This is exactly my point. Karavelov did not write Zajdi Zajdi. He wrote Chernei goro. They are two different songs. Therefore, there should be two different articles. BalkanFever 11:10, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

text: The lyrics are loosely based on two old poems by Vasil Levski and Lyuben Karavelov, translated into standard Macedonian by Aleksandar Sarievski, neither having been put to music as far as I know. Sarievski composed the song — which is why it's funny when some Bulgarians sing it to his tune and claim it as being "100% Bulgarian". Many ordinary Bulgarians, and indeed many Macedonians, don't know that Sarievski actually composed Zajdi, zajdi and believe it's a folk song from some remote mountain town (or something along those lines). --Hegumen (talk) 05:56, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Therefore, in my opinion, there shouldn't be a problem in simply calling it a Macedonian or Macedonian song (unlike Makedonsko Devojče, Jovano Jovanke, More Sokol Pie, etc.). --Hegumen (talk) 06:07, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This whole issue goes a lot further. Bulgarian television programs will play Macedonian songs only slightly changed (example). The singer only changes a few words; "Macedonia" to "Bulgaria", "Alexander" to "Asparukh" while keeping the rest of Vojo Stojanovski's song unchanged (original song). Ironic how Macedonians are accused of stealing songs and such by the very same people on that television program. --Hegumen (talk) 06:30, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Recent edits

message: At the moment the article is a somewhat contradictory. The introduction states it's a Macedonian and Bulgarian song while the follow up section says it was written and composed by Sarievski. --Hegumen (talk) 06:46, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I added a template to the page. I'm not making the obvious edit, just so we don't start another war. BalkanFever 07:11, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Contradiction

message: Since many of the interested parties are around here, I would kindly request some reliable sources regarding this 300 Soundtrack  sensation (some might even say brouhaha). Mind you I have already seen the piece (with all that Uber-elite youtube references) circulated in the early days by "RealityMacedonia.org.mk" (R.I.P. - BTW has anyone even noticed, back then that the site was "hacked" i.e. defaced?) plus that one by On.net allegedly carrying a responce by Bates himself. None of the above justified, even remotely, the notion that we must take for granted that this song was the inspiration of that song, that the composer committed plagiarism and all that, well, brouhaha. What exactly is this Valentina Gjorgievska talking about for us poor souls who can not read Cyrillic? What exactly is the status of her online publisher? --157.228.x.x (talk) 17:56, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Any takers? I'm afraid that without any reliable sources all references to this "identical melody-implied plagiarism" claims of "our most sacred" song and all that must be removed from every single article that have crawled into, including this one. --157.228.x.x (talk) 18:29, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I would tend to agree with 157, sources are required for statements that are likely to 'make waves'. However, before we go changing the article to reflect this need, let's get it ironed out here first and then post the results of the discussion in the article discussion for 300. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 20:41, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Putting aside that who-did-what, here's a follow-up summarizing this (non) issue. --157.228.x.x (talk) 21:50, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: This! IS! Spartaaa

message: Perhaps the link to the Bulgarian article should be removed... it seems as though it's about a different song. --Hegumen (talk) 12:10, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't mind him - he's just trying to annoy us. Just ignore. --Laveol T 20:01, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Haha, trolled. --Hegumen (talk) 13:33, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bulgarian 

message: Appears notable--
*Google scholar hit in English.
*Google scholar hit in Cyrillic. (Not my mother tongue.)
* Wikipedia article in Cyrillic (Macedonian?-- not my mother tongue.)
*Ethnic folk songs may have inherent notability- the sort of thing that gets anthologized and written about in books about folk song references. Certainly the sort of information that should be in an online Encyclopedia.
*Galenet mention
Other potential sourcing-- 
*"Zajdi, zajdi, jasno sonce"
*"Зајди, зајди, јасно сонце".  Dlohcierekim  14:13, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Pff, I don't think the article has to go to AFD. It's certainly notable, especially since it is in the soundtrack of the film 300. As for the links - most of them mean nothing and can hardly be added. I've commented elsewhere about the Galenet lameness and the first ethnic Macedonian in America and the Moon. I don't think you should worry tto much about this article. It's just that it is a subject of a Bulgarian-Macedonian edit-war with both sides claiming it is their own. This case is rather since the text is undoubtedly taken from a Bulgarian folk song and the music is composed by a RoM composer (and probably derived from the BG one). I've given up trying to reason with the guys whose POV is currently represented, but it seems the annon has not. --Laveol T 22:57, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

text: Hmmm, I've added a controversy section which should incorporate the annon claims. It added a couple of refs as well, so I think that should do it for the AFD. --Laveol T 23:22, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Wrong. Wrongity wrong wrong wrong. The anon was not trying to "reason" with anybody. He/she/it was vandalising. We've been over this so many times. Too many times. BalkanFever 09:48, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That's certainly no reason to call him a scumbag. Nor it was a reason to call everybody names. And why have you removed some of the additions? And how exactly is an instrumental version of the song encyclopaedic and a rock version - not? Your personal view on subject? --Laveol T 16:01, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Declined speedy deletion 

message: How is someone like Tyler Bates possibly an authority who needs to be referred to in a Wikipedia article on a topic like this? I hope there's an answer, and the appropriate edit. Drmies (talk) 02:21, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: He isn't. It's just being used to push some weirdo POV. Same with that horror writer Kaufman. Fixed. BalkanFever 09:35, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm, actually he is. The only reason this article exists in the moment is cause the song was used under the name "Message for the Queen" in "300". And this was the composer of the song's answer to the accusation that he stole it. Sounds pretty simple. And no need for your sarcastic remarks - Kaufman is no horror writer (at least not that one) and you know it more than well. You just can't help it, can you. --Laveol T 16:04, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

text: What have I gotten into here. OK--that movie may well have been the reason, but that has no bearing on the authority of Bates as a folklorist or ethnographic musicologist, and his Wikipedia entry gives me no reason to believe that he is. As such, it is not a relevant statement--it is as relevant as when I say "it's Belgian in origin." As for "composer of the song," what composer is that? (I assume that by "this" you mean "it's a Bulgarian folk song"?) If it is a folk song, then almost by definition there is no composer. I'm going to delete the Tyler Bates reference--not because he pushes "some weirdo POV" as one person says or because he is right, as another person seems to imply, but because I have no reason whatsoever to believe that Bates really knows what he's talking about when he says that. Drmies (talk) 20:57, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok. Agreed :) --Laveol T 15:04, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

text:  Horror writer? Nikolay Kaufman is a leading and widely published Bulgarian musicologist, what makes you think he's a horror writer? Take it easy with those remarks, Fever: not like he's gonna come and read it, just have a little respect for people who have achieved more in life than you have. Todor→Bozhinov 14:12, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tyler Bates? 

message: Is there one available?   Dlohcierekim  03:59, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  English translation 

message: When did Sarievski first write (or create, publish, whatever) his version? Sources? Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:57, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Date of creation? 

message: The both authors have used the word "Slănce" (for Sun) not "Sonce". Please, listen here Song as originally performed by the late Aleksandar Sarievski and please, see here: Karavelov, НОВА ПЕСНОПОЙКА, online edition Jingby (talk) 11:23, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, Raso, please explain yourself. I know you have a habit of reverting and avoiding discussion, but you should learn to provide reasons for your actions. Jingiby did it, why don't you do it as well, provided you have valid reasons. --Laveol T 12:44, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: We need to stick to what our sources do. At least on the web, the title (or full text) is almost always cited in its standard Macedonian form. Or in a standard Bulgarian form, certainly, by Bulgarians. But as far as I understood, Sarievski used the form with the sl- not because it was like that in Bulgarian, but because it happened to be like that also in his native (western Macedonian) dialect, Galicnik or something like that. These specific dialect forms in his performance seem to be rendered very rarely in written references to the song. If we were to use those, we'd probably have to change more than just this one word, right? (And the conventional transcription for that form in the Macedonian context would probably be sl'nce anyway, wouldn't it?) Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:51, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  As much as you're right, it's undeniable that Raso simply doesn't like the Bulgarian-looking rendition of the word :) Very nice treatment on dialects and their written representation, but far from the actual motivation of the user. Todor→Bozhinov 14:16, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Slănce 

message: Can somebody check out this interesting page (from this guy's website])? He lists not one but four different songs all starting with "zajdi zajdi jasno s..?nce" (and incidentally three different dialect spellings of the s..?nce word). The third of those  is "our" song, both in terms of the rest of the text and in terms of the melody (checking against the Sarievski performance on youtube ). It's sourced there to a 1995 anthology of "Macedonian national folk songs", without mentioning either Sarievski or Karavelov. The other two songs are totally different except for the text incipit; as far as I can make sense of the references they seem to be from some authentic folklore collections. 
This would imply that the "zajdi zajdi" line (which is not found in the Karavelov texts) is yet another folklore stereotype that was floating around and taken up by Sarievski. Nothing surprising, of course, given the reliance on such stereotyped phrases characteristic of traditional SE European oral poetry in general. Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:14, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Here is another Bulgarian volk-song which begins with "Zajdi, zajdi jasno slance..." published before Sarievski song - Рано преди слънце. Трудови народни песни. Съст. Йордан Стубел. София, 1952. Jingby (talk) 08:40, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice find. That seems to be another variation of the first song listed by Mitrevski . Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:49, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  More stuff... 

message: There are now several Bg-language articles quoted that seem to deal with the provenance of Sarievski's melody (as opposed to the texts), but their contents aren't summarised well - and I can't read them. Do those articles contain any concrete information about exactly how similar Sarievski's melody is to traditional models, and where and how those are attested? Are they attested together with any of the actual texts we were discussing, or some other texts? We should be treating these things without reference to such a silly national dichotomy, simply pointing out what comes from where. Fut.Perf. ☼ 09:32, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, has any reliable source ever actually analysed how close the 300 soundtrack is to Sarievski's melody? Those sources that claim they are "identical" are hardly good sources - and "identical" is certainly not what the melodies are. There are a couple of phrases in the 300 soundtrack that appear to follow a similar harmonic scheme and overall gesture, but how specific is that harmonic scheme to Sarievski? Do we have a real comparison? Fut.Perf. ☼ 09:57, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another question 

message: Guys, isn't the wording and linking of "a popular Macedonian folk song" a bit deceptive? First, I didn't check where the folk link points to and was keen to add Bulgarian with a language link next to Macedonian, but then I saw where "folk" links. Still, I believe it's not the best wording we can have, and certainly a bit POV-ish even if probably unconsciously. The usage of "folk song" implies that it's part of the Macedonian folklore tradition, which it isn't: apparently, in this version at least, it has an author and that is Sarievski. And if it implies that it's part of the Macedonian folklore tradition and no the Bulgarian one, then it's misleading, because the actual folk song is part of the traditions of both (now, whether they're two separate traditions is another thing, you know my opinion and I stand by it).
Enough talking. How about:
: ... is a Macedonian-language folk-style song composed by Aleksandar Sarievski and based on Bulgarian and Macedonian folklore; in recent times, it has gained popularity throughout the Balkans.
I know it's a bit lengthier, but we can't afford to lose clarity for the sake of conciseness. Please note the links and tell me whether it's all fine. I'd like to see if there's any opposition to that wording before introducing it, the article has seen some controversy and I don't want to be called ethnic slurs just because of being bold ;) Todor→Bozhinov 22:10, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deceptive wording: "folk song" 

message: This is a folk song from a wider area where Bulgaria, Macedonia and Serbia meet and is a folk song of Serbs, Bulgarians and Macedonians who live there. Even the local dialects of Serbian, Macedonian and Bulgarian language there are similar. This is not uncommon as many folk songs are often shared between many nations (e.g. Misirlou between Greeks and Turks), especially when Serbs, Macedonians and Bulgars are Slavic peoples of same religion with strikingly similar language and culture and common history of enslavement under Turkish Empire that lasted for centuries. I think this article needs to be corrected as it appears that this song is a national one, with national disputes of claiming it, while in fact it is a local Balkan song shared between Bulgars, Macedonians and Serbs and part of culture and heritage of all three Slavic nations. 79.101.194.22 (talk) 16:52, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I added a paragraph about Zajdi, zajdi in Serbia and its title in Serbian language in the opening paragraph, to emphasize that the song is sung in Serbia as a folk song also. 79.101.194.22 (talk) 17:18, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Serbian folk song also 

message: 70.130.144.54 appears to be edit warring with multiple editors including Futur perfect at sunrise, an administrator can the IP stop and discuss here please--Lerdthenerd wiki defender 10:46, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: 70.130 you just reverted me! stop and discuss, I can't revert you as I may go over 3RR so your edit may stand but you are getting your self in more trouble.--Lerdthenerd wiki defender 10:54, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: he is not stopping he just reverted again, I can't revert and I cant ask you to Fut Perf so we will have to wait until someone stops him or he discusses here, I have to agree the author can still recorded a version of it--Lerdthenerd wiki defender 11:14, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

text: I agree this is getting tedious. LMAO! look whats happening in the section below!! he is trying to give the article edit warings!! XD!--Lerdthenerd wiki defender 12:13, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  IP edit warring with multiple editors 

message: Song Zajdi zajdi sonce, please don't revert my edits to this songs history, couse claims that Aleksandar Sarievski(1922-2002) composed it are [false]!!!!!! Aleksandar was Macedonian traditional music - folk singer and thats it, he was not composer nor song writer and { Zajdi zajdi song } is ancient and at least 500 years old. Im guessing Mr. Sarievski lived 500+ years Please don't make Macedonian history based on lies and fiction. I lived in SFRJ long enough to know its history.
I own huge Yugoslavia Music library 78,33,45rpm Vinyl Audio Cassette Reel to Reel CD ....--70.130.144.54 (talk) 11:42, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Song Zajdi zajdi sonce 

message: Aleksandar Sarievski(1922-2002) was only Folk song singer and he can't compose or write something that is 500 years old {absurd}. This is Macedonia root song, just like Chinese, Black American, Indian, Egypt etc. Root Song/folk song and it belongs to the people and not to Mr. Sarievski. Composer and writer is unknown.--70.130.144.54 (talk) 11:44, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Song Zajdi zajdi sonce 

message: Please give solid prof that Aleksandar Sarievski composed and wrote this song, you can't because musical score/arrangements for this song made Orchestra of Radio Television Serbia (former Yugoslavia) back in 1950's based on version played, sung on weddings, taverns, street...etc. song is tranfered from generation to genaration--70.130.144.54 (talk) 13:42, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Your personal opinion and claims are not acceptable as a reliable source of information here. Please, provide unbiased and verified published reference. Thank you. Jingby (talk) 14:00, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

text: We have one source – more or less the only source we've seen so far – that clearly says he claimed he wrote it. Contrary to what you seem to be saying, there is nothing inherently impossible or implausible in such a claim. Of course it is possible for a folk singer to invent a new melody. The claim stands until somebody brings forward another source that refutes it. So far, we've only heard your personal assertions, which are of no value. Bring a source, or shut up. Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:56, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Zajdi zajdi sonce song, Aleksandar Sarievski Composer and writer of this song > Impossible  

message: These are not my personal claims and opinions these are facts changed (2002) due to new born Macedonia fictional history--70.130.144.54 (talk) 14:08, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Personal opinion and claims  

message: The article is written extremely from the point of view of Republic of Macedonia - there is not a single sentence that the song is considered as Bulgarian folklore. In other words - the other point of view is absolutely ignored - moreover has been deleted--Алиса Селезньова (talk) 11:07, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: There aren't any 'points of view'. This song was written and composed by Sarievski, a fact which is adequately sourced. If the Average Joe thinks this song is something it isn't, that doesn't belong in this article. I do, however, have a source which discusses the mistaken beliefs of many ordinary Bulgarians with regard to Macedonian music. --WavesSaid (talk) 11:26, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: You should also practice what you preach. The Bulgarian article presents the song as a Bulgarian folk song (without any citations, I might add). --WavesSaid (talk) 11:33, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, in Bulgaria and not only the song is considered Bulgarian folk song. As long as this is not mentioned in the article, it represents only one point of view (yours), and it is not neutral.--Алиса Селезньова (talk) 11:53, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: You could add that if you had a verifiable and credible source. And don't make this about me: the article is adequately sourced. Your claim, on the other hand, cannot be. --WavesSaid (talk) 23:25, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Since this is the popular point of view of one of the parts in a discussion of course it can be properly cited - you delete every attempt to add the other point of view and that is why I just put the template. I'm not obliged to correct what it is wrong with the article - I can only put a template warning the readers that a neutral point of view is missing.--Алиса Селезньова (talk) 23:42, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Argumentum ad populum ≠ WP:RELIABLESOURCES. The article is adequately sourced, and you should also review the lengthy discussions which led to the current version of the article. The article *is* neutral because it reflects what's in the sources. --WavesSaid (talk) 02:22, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Neutral doesn't mean that it is not in contrast with the cited sources - you can cite only the sources of one point of view (as you did) but still the other point of view is not mentioned. If I may remind you that you have a source which discusses the mistaken beliefs of many ordinary Bulgarians with regard to Macedonian music, so obviously the Bulgarian point of view is relevant since there are books about it.--Алиса Селезньова (talk) 17:32, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Neutrality means we don't take sides, it doesn't mean we mention every single opinion (especially not those in self-published online newspapers). If you have a reliable and credible source that describes Sarievski's song as Bulgarian (I don't know how that's even possible), then by all means include it. And no, it's not a book; it's in a thesis in which the candidate talks about Bulgarian recording artists using Macedonian newly composed songs without attribution (mistaking them for Macedonian folk songs and subsequently "Bulgarian" because they claim the Macedonians for themselves). --WavesSaid (talk) 05:58, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, the source was not a "self-published online newspaper". You could have clicked the link at the very least. When asking for neutral credible sources, one should be prepared to provide the same. I really doubt there is anyone else in the world that interested in the topic, to have published something as an actual scientific article on this. Since there is no credible source for any of the claims, then why should one of them be removed or imposed upon the article. I simply reverted the lede part, so that it acknowledges what is a prominent claim, one that is also discussed further in the article. Plus, I also removed any notions of this being a folk song, per the wiki article claiming that the term folk music is not applied to newly-composed songs. --Laveol T 07:54, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I did. Elena Cvetkova is a journalist, not a musicologist. She writes online for the Bulgarian National Radio. The only claims that can be substantiated are that Aleksandar Sarievski wrote the song on the basis of an earlier song. A "prominent" claim should have at least a few more sources than a single news piece published online. Those details you mentioned amount to original research (they are links to sheet music and similar). Whatever the case may be, it cannot simultaneous be a newly composed Macedonian song and a Bulgarian song. --WavesSaid (talk) 09:47, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV 

message: + Comparison of the modern text and original poems
! Modern text
! Text of the original verses by Lyuben Karavelov
! Source Ilievst (talk) 21:26, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: . It's not clear what changes you want to make. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 22:39, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 11 August 2020 

message: Change link "Video of the song performed by Bulgarian singer Iva Davidova" from "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5WIXnYkWTY" to "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxI-DYTHKMo"
Change link  "Bulgarian singer Nikolina Chakardakova – Zajdi, zajdi..." from "http://www.vtap.com/video/Nikolina+Chakardakova+-+Zajdi%252C+zajdi+jasno+sonce/CL0159568881_707c94852_V0lLSTEzMTM0OTUz" to "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1J_zq3yDac" Vilovka (talk) 17:06, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Done – robertsky (talk) 16:43, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Bulgarian covers of this song need to be removed altogether as they have nothing to do with the original composition. 2600:1700:6A15:9010:45A3:8353:6A4D:140D (talk) 23:24, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 8 January 2021 

message: The song has a bulgarian origin, but it's known to be part also from Serbian, Bosnian and Macedonian culture. The contemporary text is written by and included in the book of Luben Karavelov "Nova Pesnopoika" in 1878. The language of the song is Bulgarian! 2A00:20:1017:2A52:901E:65AA:AEE0:CD29 (talk) 13:57, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. – Thjarkur (talk) 15:31, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 30 April 2021