Talk:Fiscal conservatism

message: I restored this article from a redirect since since there is some material from Fiscal Conservatism(Free Market Conservatism) that could be moved here. I removed the long list of supposed fiscal conservatives since it was unencyclopedic and not clearly defined.
If somebody thinks this should still be a redirect, that's fine too, but it looks like plenty could be written about the subject. Wmahan. 19:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I just think the article is redundant, as noted above. I favour merging all information into other articles, particularly American conservatism, since "fiscal conservatism" is an exclusively American term. -- Nikodemos 01:57, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I reinstated the article. I doubt no references can be found to describe the term properly. Intangible 00:01, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem is not that there are no references, but that the term is a synonym for economic liberalism. That is why I favour a redirect and the merging of information into American conservatism. -- Nikodemos 00:29, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is not synonymous, because the political end of fiscal conservatism does not have to be solely based on economic liberalism or liberalism in itself. Intangible 01:22, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Umm, political end...? I'm confused. -- Nikodemos 01:23, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If a senator supports a balanced budget, it does not necessarily mean the senator believes this on the grounds of economic liberalism. Maybe religion is the basis of the senator's support for a balanced budget, although I agree that Reagan's platform (which did not really set off at all in practice), was based on such a economic liberalism. Intangible 01:30, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article restored 

message: Is there actually any page describing left wing economic ideology? Since "economic liberalism" is actually a policy endorsed by conservatives, I expected to get an article describing liberal economic ideology when I searched "economic conservatism", but was instead redirected to this page, which is actually more conservative doctrine. If there is such a page (describing liberal economics), please contact me, and if not, one certainly needs to be written. ~ Ludo716
: I think the current page represents a very narrow POV.  I would rather see this page improved.  Fiscal conservatism is a widely used phrase...although people tend to use it as a bit of a catch-phrase, I do think it describes something very real, and something highly non-partisan.  The current page makes it seem like fiscal conservatism is somehow tied to neoliberalism, which I think is totally inaccurate.  Cazort (talk) 21:08, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Left Wing article? 

message: Socialism would be the traditional left-wing economic position, and is the appropriate counterpart to economic liberalism in Europe. Economic progressivism would be the term for the liberal position in America, which suggests a more moderate stance than socialism does; I would contrast economic progressivism with economic conservatism, as that is the American term for economic liberalism. (Confused yet?)Economic progrssivism does have its own article, although it is short.
Fiscal conservatism would be opposed to prodigality, which doesn't doesn't describe any one's stated position, as far as I know, but is regularly used to demonize opponents (often, ironically enough, with the phrase "tax and spend.")
- Andrew R.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 156.108.128.133 (talk) 18:34, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Economic Progressivism 

message: What's this got to do with fiscal conservatism at all? In fact, the whole article is basically "Economic History of the United States". --Aioth 07:27, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I saw that and thought the same thing, but came here to check.  I'll remove it, it is irrelevant.  --Xyzzyva (talk) 23:23, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Taxation without Representation 

message: I removed this section. It does nothing to define or give history on the article's topic. It is merely a partisan take on the last two presidents on this issue. Here's the copy I deleted:
The Clinton Administration created a fairly sizable budget surplus by the end of the 1990s. In 2000, George W. Bush ran for President on a platform of limiting the scope of government and cutting taxes, while still maintaining the surplus. However, during his time in office, President Bush has drastically increased federal spending while continuing to cut taxes. A growing number of Republicans have grown exasperated with the tremendous deficit growth that has taken place in recent years. Some have argued that Bush's apathy towards creating a balanced budget and his willingness to increase spending on Medicare and other social programs betray conservative principles. Democrats have criticized Bush for excessive spending also, though they tend to focus more on the Iraq War and other costly military expenditures, and on tax cuts that reduce federal revenues and increase the deficit.
--PFR 19:03, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Contemporary Issues

message: The information about tax revenues increasing is based on partisan sources and sources within the Reagan administration. It is in conflict with the information in Reagonomics which presents 
a more balanced and correct picture based on actual evidence.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiviedit (talk • contribs) 19:01, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reagonomics 

message: Has anyone considered putting up a list of famous fiscal conservatives on this page? --165.123.227.188 (talk) 06:03, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Famous Fiscal Conservatives 

message: "Fiscal conservatives" and "economic conservatives" or "free market conservatives" are not the same thing.  "Fiscal conservatism" refers to balancing budgets and nothing more.  It makes very little sense to speak of a philosophy or historical tradition of "fiscal conservatism."  "Fiscal conservatism" is a lot more tactical or small-scale a thing than that.  Until you get it right, best shut up.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.10.198.109 (talk) 19:55, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scrap the Article 

message: Recommend moving to Fiscal conservativism in North America  so a non-North American centric article can flourish. North American politics can be connected with summarization and a "more on topic" link -- Guroadrunner (talk) 12:29, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recommend moving 

message: I just did some editing on the "Bush/Obama" section.  Please, try not to use weasel words, or editorialize.  WP:WORDS and all that.  I also left some  peppered all over that section.  I am in no way trying to suggest that Obama hasn't increased the deficit; I just want someone to add a citation or two when they say it.  WP:V, don'tchaknow.  
Anyway, if you're editing something political and current, step back, take a deep breath, look for neutral sources, and if you have a friend on the other side of the political aisle, have them collaborate with you.  No partisan stuff, pleaseandthx. Will (talk) 00:51, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please maintain NPOV 

message: Fiscal conservatives don't necessarily believe in free trade.  Please change it, as someone like Ron Paul would be an example to the contrary.184.59.7.32 (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 00:28, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Free Trade? 

message: I realise some have already brought this up above, but it's still odd to see the Reagan administration described as 'fiscal conservative', even rhetorically. Under Reagan, taxes were cut and spending increased, leading to an increase in the deficit: surely that's the precise opposite of fiscal conservatism, whatever that's called? Robofish (talk) 17:28, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Careful......I'm no fan either way, but I believe you may be over simplifying things in this ire.  (I'm neither democrat nor republican)--To be fair to common usage at least, a fiscal conservative is someone interested in reducing spending.  Government spending vs. the spending of the populace?  Raising taxes is confusing here, because it causes all of us to spend in the short term.  Reducing taxes causes us all to spend less in the short term.  Consider then: Government spending increases UNfunded by populace spending increases (via taxes) falls into *which* category in the minds of the pundits on each extreme?  I believe this tends to hover at the center of most arguments.  (Take whichever side you like, this is only my observation).Tgm1024 (talk) 10:49, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reagan? 

message: For some strange reason the introductory sentence is sourced to public policy book on corrections.  Can we find a better source for this.  I expect that there may be certain contextual aspects of prisons and jails which do not generalize to society at large. aprock (talk) 21:05, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I've gone ahead and restored the previous lede as more descriptive of article body and more straightforward. aprock (talk) 21:13, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Strange source for defining the concept 

message: I agree that fiscal conservatism is primarily about a government living within its means and not leaving a burden of debt but things such as cutting taxes to grow the economy and privatizing to cut costs are the means to fiscal conservatism so I believe those fit under fiscal conservatism.   — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.240.199.194 (talk) 11:32, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  February 2012 

message: I see no difference between fiscal conservatism and classical liberalism from what is in the intro. It looks like it is just a different term to describe classical liberalism. In the U.S. and particularly in the Republican Party, what is considered economic "conservatism" is conservative support of classical liberal economic policy in opposition to the social liberalism of the Democratic Party). If it is the same as classical liberalism, then this article should be made a redirect to classical liberalism--R-41 (talk) 01:23, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Fiscal conservatism only refers to economic policy, and those concerning taxation and spending. Where ass classical liberalism is a much broader subject, covering topics such as freedom of speech, religion and press. Are they similar, absolutely and I think that speaks to the irony of modern political parties and their "platforms". I do not think this article should be redirected though, it is extensive and deserves its own page.EncycloCritique (talk) 20:34, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The term should have a well sourced definition, which it currently does not.  The definition currently used in the article is very particular to a particular brand of US politics. aprock (talk) 18:00, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is fiscal conservatism just a modern term used by the American right to describe classical liberalism as opposed to social liberalism? 

message: A user has reverted my removal of the unsourced Bush commentary.  Based on the copy in the edit, it looks like it's personal observation, synth/OR.  Are there any sources which put Bush's record in the context of fiscal conservatism in general which can be used here? aprock (talk) 17:57, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I added a source link. Please improve, please don't remove, for removing mention of this Administration would leave the article sadly incomplete. As to the context of fiscal conservatism, it seems that the magnitude of deficit spending is in and of itself the most relevant aspect of fiscal conservatism as it is defined at the top of the page.  Aprock - thanks for suggesting the link, and let me know if you feel that something else needs to be added to make the entry more valid.--Quertysum (talk) 18:37, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia cannot be a source for wikipedia articles per WP:CIRCULAR.  However it is appropriate to take a WP:SUMMARY style approach for certain content.  Given that the main article you link to does not mention fiscal conservatism, it seems a stretch to include a summary of that article here. aprock (talk) 18:41, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thank you for your forbearance. I footnoted to an external link. It seems that several of the sections above the Bush section don't satisfy your criteria as you stated in previous comment. The fact that they are not challenged by you for the same criteria makes me concerned that I don't understand you correctly. They all mainly use circular links, and generally don't link to pages that mention fiscal conservatism.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Quertysum (talk • contribs) 19:37, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, sourcing is a general problem in the article.  I'll add the appropriate tag.  Adding more unsourced material can't improve things. aprock (talk) 19:40, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unsourced Bush commentary 

message: Wouldn't Jimmy Carter be considered a fiscal conservative? I may be wrong on this but I heard he decreased the deficit, deregulated and/or privatized railroads, nuclear plants, home brewery, airlines, trucking, oil, and telecommunications, reduced the top tax rate on capital gains, actively sought to rid the federal government of waste, fraud, abuse, and mismanagement, and continued opening up trade with China.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.35.187.201 (talk) 21:28, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  What about Jimmy Carter? 

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