Talk:Lists of Marvel Comics characters/Archive 1

message: Once I find the time, I would like to start a WikiProject to standardize the entry titles of all existing Wikipedia articles on Marvel characters. This has two primary aims:
* First, the proper disambiguation phrase for characters should be "Marvel character", not "superhero". Part of the reasoning behind this is that it is often not quite clear whether a character is a hero or a villain. Though usually considered a hero, the Punisher could be considered a villain (Cardiac (Marvel character) follows the same methods, and is usually considered a villain). Similar cases of ambiguity of moral affiliation could be made for Deadpool, Elektra, Thanos, and many other characters. Another reason is to allow a distinction to be made in cases when a Marvel Universe character and a character from another universe, such as that of DC, share the same name. What this means is that, for example, the page Wolverine (superhero) will be moved to Wolverine (Marvel character). However, Wolverine (superhero) will be kept as a redirect. Also, double redirects will need to be taken care of.
::I think we should go with "(comics)" instead, and use "(Marvel Comics)" or something similar only in the few cases where disambiguation with other companies is necessary.  See below. -mhr 17:18, 25 Nov 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: Name Standardization

message: (Poll posted on November 24, 2003; please do not make changes to title of main page until at earliest December 1, 2003, after one week has passed)
I'm wondering what title other Wikipedians think would be most appropriate for this page:
* List of Marvel characters
* List of Marvel Comics characters
* List of Marvel Universe characters
Obviously, the two that are not chosen will be redirects to this page.
--Lowellian 16:00, Nov 24, 2003 (UTC)
: List of Marvel Comics characters makes the most sense to me, since it makes it clear that these are comic book characters right off the bat.  Non-comics fans won't generally understand what the "Marvel Universe" is without some description. -mhr 17:18, 25 Nov 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion Poll 1

message: (Poll posted on November 25, 2003; please do not make changes to disambiguation phrases until at earliest December 2, 2003, after one week has passed)
What do other Wikipedians feel would be the most appropriate text disambiguation marker for Marvel characters?
* Storm (comics) - does not clarify the comics continuity within which the character belongs
* Storm (Marvel character) - does not indicate genre
* Storm (Marvel Comics) - see mhr's comments below
* Storm (Marvel Comics character) - long and hard to remember
* Storm (superhero) - For why I feel this is inappropriate, see my comments above on the WikiProject for comics characters. Basically, many characters are not clearly superheroes or supervillains. And furthermore, it seems to limit comics to just the superhero genre, which is not the only genre of comics. Should we consider certain characters who have no special powers (e.g. supporting characters like Uncle Ben) to be heroes? What about characters with no superpowers, but just military training, like Nick Fury?
I'm personally in favor of either the second or third option right now.
--Lowellian 04:43, Nov 25, 2003 (UTC)
The more I think about it, the better the idea of
* Storm (Marvel Comics)
seems compared to the other options. It has the advantage of clearly marking the entry as being associated with Marvel and being associated with comics. Furthermore, unlike "(Marvel character)", this is an entry that could be applied to teams like Generation X (Marvel Comics) and alien races like Asgardians (Marvel Comics) as well.
--Lowellian 05:07, Nov 25, 2003 (UTC)
Also, another problem with the "(superhero)" or "(supervillain)" designation is that it is not necessarily gender-neutral. For example, for Storm, should she be:
* Storm (superhero)
* Storm (superheroine)
And for the Lilith, should she be:
* Lilith (supervillain)
* Lilith (supervillainess)
We should get around these problems by using some other disambiguation phrase.
--Lowellian 05:11, Nov 25, 2003 (UTC)
:FWIW, I have just made a redirect that sends Hercules (Marvel character) to Hercules (comics), mostly because there already was a page there that discusses the Marvel Hercules as well as several other comic book incarnations of Hercules -- and Heracles, for that matter.  Then again, all comic book Herculi relate in some way to the Hercules of Greek mythology.  Personally, I'd favor names like Hercules (comics), if only because it's easy to remember.  There are always going to be cases like Captain Marvel that will require special handling.  -- Smerdis of Tlön 05:26, 25 Nov 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: I dislike "Marvel Character" a great deal, and would discourage using it.  I don't care much for "superhero", but that at least makes it clear to non-comics fans what it is.  Many non-comics fans won't know what Marvel is, or what a "Marvel character" is.  (Marvel is popular in the mainstream right now; will it be in 10 years? In 5?)  The medium or genre needs to be indicated somehow.  I think the extension "(comics)" (e.g., "Wolverine (comics)") is sufficient and simple and needs no further disambiguation, except for a very few cases (e.g., Captain Marvel).  I could see an argument for using "(comic books)" or "(comic book character)" or "(comic character)", but all of those seem needlessly verbose.  Let's keep it short and stick with just "(comics)" except for necessary exceptions. -mhr 17:18, 25 Nov 2003 (UTC)

text: Another reason not to use "(Marvel Character)" is the possibility that Marvel might someday be bought by another company (it's often been rumored that DC might buy it, and I wouldn't put it past current ownership to sell out to a good offer) or change its name (as happened during the Silver Age).  Then renaming all the WP pages would be a large undertaking.  I think this is a compelling reason to stick to disambiguators based on factors which aren't likely to change, such as "(comics)", except for cases where it's really the best (if not only) way to distinguish a character or group from one at another comics company. -mhr 18:09, 25 Nov 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion Poll 2