Talk:Hyperinflation/Archive 1

message: Governments in a commodity or specie money system can 
# Confiscate assets.
# Invade another country and "liberate" the money stock of the other country - also known as "pillage".
# Change the basis of the unit of account or "peg".
# Emit notes of credit - which while not legal tender, can be required to do business with the government.
# Borrow.
# Debase.
# Shave.
# Grant patents and sell stock.
All of the above have caused inflation in the past, but never hyperinflation. For a simple reason: the quantity which a government can inflate this way is limited. You can easily print 1000€ for each 1€ in existance. Confiscating enough gold/land/tobacco to x1000 the amount already in the market is almost unthinkable.--Flix2000 18:59, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hyperinflation under commodity money 

message: A naked cleanup tag without explanation is not particularly helpful. Please do not add naked clean up tags - particularly with no edit summary - without listing in the talk section why the article needs  clean up. Stirling Newberry 04:39, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed Cleanup tag 

message: In the Hungary section its says: Previously, between 1922 and 1924 inflation in Poland reached 98%.
And in the Polish one: Previously between 1922 and 1924, Polish inflation reached 275%.
Sitenl 22:44, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradictions 

message: Smallbones, you can not arbitrarily remove a whole paragraph like that without discussion. You may be right.  maybe 30%p.a. is not hyperinflation.  But just because someone says it starts at 50% a month does not mean he is right.  Accounting standards say Hyperinflation exists when price increases approach 100% in three years.  That makes around 30% a year. Photomaniac 19:49, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: add back uk

message: :Discussion is good. What are these "accounting standards"? It would be good for the article to have internal consistency; I don't have enough knowledge to comment on the actual definition, but this is so far short of 50%/month it the article seems out of step with itself. Can you elaborate on these other definitions? If they belong here then perhaps so does the example, though I've never heard of that period referred to as hyperinflation (yes, I live in the UK). Can someone provide a citation for the 50%/month maybe too? Notinasnaid 20:03, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not clear that the UK reached the levels SUGGESTED in the IAS standards.  It would take 30% annual inflation for a full three years.  Did UK inflation get that high for that long?  In any case the standard calls for judgement, and other indicators as well and this level seems so far removed from the other cases here that "hyperinflation" seems to be a gross exageration.  A google search on "hyperinflation in the UK" and "hyperinflation in Britain" (with quotes) comes up with only 2 irrelevant articles (something about literature in the Edwardian period). I'd be inclined to keep the UK in here only if it doesn't have by far the lowest inflation level of the examples cited.  I'll check.
Smallbones 21:31, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: discussion: how much inflation is hyperinflation

message: ;IAS Standard 29, paragraph 3: The Standard does not establish an absolute rate at which hyperinflation is deemed to arise.  It is a matter of judgement when restatement of financial statements..... becomes necessary. Hyperinflation is indicated by charachterististics of the economic environment of a country which include, but are not limited to the following: 
* (a) the general population prefers to keep its wealth in non-monetary assets or in foreign currency....
*(b)....
*(c)Sales and purchases on credit take place at prices that compensate for the expected loss of purchasing power....
*(d) interest rates, wages and prices are linked to a price index
*(e) the cumulative inflation rate over three years is approaching or exceeding 100%
Trickyt 20:43, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: GAPP and International Accounting Standards definition

message: I couldn't quite figure out what the Wikicities link to "money is free"
was doing here.  Wikicities looked a bit like Wikipedia with ads.  The "money is free" article looked like a 6th grade version of this article.
If anybody can explain this to me ... please do. Smallbones 12:21, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikicities link removed 

message: I changed part of the Weimar Hyperinflation description.  It is a myth that the reparations imposed on Germany after WWI necessitated the government's resort to hyperinflation.  Here is more information:
http://www.libertyhaven.com/countriesandregions/germany/greatgermaninf.html
And if you just want the data:
http://www.libertyhaven.com/countriesandregions/germany/ydefrep.gif
--Isaac 19:05, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a good source, but the article needs changing I think. It is right that this view should be represented, but as a view. The alternative view, that reparations did cause it, seems to be widely held and should also be reported as a view. Wikipedia requires that a neutral point of view present the different sources, even if you disagree with them, without showing a bias towards them. However, I'm not in a position to produce a citation for the opposite view, which would be required for balance. Notinasnaid 19:15, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reparations Just a Scapegoat 

message: There is a lot of redundant repetition in this article. 134.174.157.216 13:37, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. --Chochopk 16:21, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Repetition

message: Section "Characteristics"
:The most severe known incident of inflation was in Hungary after the end of World War II at 4.19 percent per month (prices double every 15 hours) (The math is correct)
Section "Hyperinflation and the currency"
:The Post-WWII hyperinflation of Hungary holds the record for the most extreme monthly inflation rate ever — 41,900,000,000,000,000% (4.19%) for July, 1946, amounting to prices doubling every fifteen hours.
Section "Hyperinflation around the world"
:The rate of inflation was 4.19 quintillion percent. (that is 4.19%)
So I search the internet and found about equal number of results of either hypothesis =( . Then I gathered these numbers from Hungarian pengő:
* The largest pengő denomination issued was 108 b.-pengő (1020 pengő), which was worth about US$ 0.2 on the day of issuance (11 July 1946). That means 1 US$ was approximately equal to 5 pengő.
* Forint was introduced on  August 1, 1946. At that time,
:1 forint = 4 pengő
:1 United States dollar = 11.74 forints = 4.696 pengő
----
Hypothesis 1
* In July 1946, the inflation rate was 4.19 (41.9 quadrillion) percent (or 4.19 times) per month. Using this number, and assuming constant exponential inflation, we can derive the following
                     	Time required to multiply prices	Time required to multiply prices	Time required to multiply prices	Price multiplier for this much time	Price multiplier for this much time	Price multiplier for this much time	Price multiplier for this much time	Price multiplier for this much time
                     	2x                              	10x                             	100x                            	1 hour                             	1 day                              	1 week                             	2 weeks                            	3 weeks
If 1 month is 31 days	15.32 hours                     	2.12 days                       	4.24 days                       	1.0463                             	2.96                               	2004                               	4.01                               	8.04
If 1 month is 30 days	14.82 hours                     	2.05 days                       	4.1  days                       	1.0479                             	3.07                               	2581                               	6.66                               	1.72
4.696 / 5 = 9.39, which supports this hypothesis.
----
Hypothesis 2
* In July 1946, the inflation rate was 4.19 (4.19 quintillion) percent (or 4.19 times) per month. Using this number, and assuming constant exponential inflation, we can derive the following
                     	Time required to multiply prices	Time required to multiply prices	Time required to multiply prices	Price multiplier for this much time	Price multiplier for this much time	Price multiplier for this much time	Price multiplier for this much time	Price multiplier for this much time
                     	2x                              	10x                             	100x                            	1 hour                             	1 day                              	1 week                             	2 weeks                            	3 weeks
If 1 month is 31 days	13.47 hours                     	1.86 days                       	3.73 days                       	1.0528                             	3.44                               	5668                               	3.21                               	1.82
If 1 month is 30 days	13.04 hours                     	1.8  days                       	3.61 days                       	1.0546                             	3.58                               	7560                               	5.72                               	4.32
And while we know that at least one of the two numbers is erroneous, we might as well validate the inflation rates on Germany, Yugoslavia, Greece, etc.
--Chochopk 09:43, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradiction on Hungarian pengő 

message: The section on Chile was both inaccurate (140% is almost never considered hyperinflation, particularly when the average rate of inflation in the economy before had been 35% per year) and heavily dependent on Pinochet statements about the economy, which are both self-serving and incorrect. There was a coup before a plebescite, and the coup did not come on the back of a popular uprising, but was primarily backed by outside elements. Everyone admits that Allende's experiment ran away from itself between 1971-72, but only Pinochet apologists call the episdoe "hyperinflation". The central bank of Chile, for example, does not label the period one of hyperinflation, nor do the documents in the US library of Congress.
Stirling Newberry 08:50, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chile 

message: The statement "Hyperinflation in Mexico eventually forced prices so high that in 1993 Carlos Salinas de Gortari had to replace the peso ($) with the nuevo peso (N$). The parity was N$1 for $1000 – in short, he stripped three zeroes from the peso." has nothing to do in the article.  Highest annual rates in Mexico were ~100% in 1982–1983 and ~130%, which is far from hyperinflation. 
Régis Lachaume (talk) 19:27, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Mexico

message: :The largest denomination banknote ever officially issued for circulation was in 1946 by the Hungarian National Bank for the amount of 100 quintillion pengő (100,000,000,000,000,000,000, or 1020). image (There was even a banknote worth 10 times more, i.e. 1021 pengő, printed, but not issued image.)
The banknotes in the images say Százmillió (100 million) and Egymilliárd (1 milliard, or 1 billion for you buffalo-eaters). How do these represent the far greater figures mentioned in the article? JIP | Talk 09:42, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The "b" in b-pengő stands for billion in long scale (1012). See Hungarian pengő paper money#Postwar inflation series (1945-1946). --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 10:52, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh. Now I understand. I thought it was just some symbol identifying the currency's name. Thanks. JIP | Talk 10:58, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hungarian banknote images 

message: Has there been one single instance of HYPERinflation in which huge amounts of money printing (paper or electronic) was not directly involved? Not just in the real world, I'll accept models, videogames, novels, dreams.... really has it ever happened?  
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Flix2000 (talk • contribs) 20:23, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Root causes

message: The "Hyperinflation around the world" section mentions both the "Republic of China" and Taiwan which are basically the same.
Shouldn't "Republic of China" be "People's Republic of China" instead? Sinkiang is in mainland China, not Taiwan I believe. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 155.198.116.81 (talk) 18:10, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no mistake. The People's Republic of China was founded in 1949. China was in a state of civil war between 1945-49. At this time, the official title was "Republic of China". The communist won, the nationalist remained control of Taiwan only. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 04:39, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mistake in the "Hyperinflation around the world" section? 

message: This article refers to speculation in 1920s Germany by "particularly foreign or Jewish" speculators.  "Jewish" was however linked to anti-semitism.  This is a strange link and referring to Jews as some kind of monolithic speculating block in Germany needs some stronger evidence.  I'm removing it and leaving it as just foreign speculators...if someone wants to add a cited reference (and a better link and explanation of what's referred to), go for it.  Afabbro 01:11, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Jewish" Speculation in 1920s Germany 

message: :Image:Millionlira.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Millionlira.jpg

message: The subsection on Zimbabwe's current woes is getting disproportionately large; perhaps it should either be condensed or get its own page. --Soultaco 17:36, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hyperinflation in Zimbabwe 

message: "Interest rates, wages and prices are linked to a price index and the cumulative inflation rate over three years approaches, or exceeds, 100%."
Per ??
GeneCallahan 12:45, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Obviously this sentence is nonsense. We should find  that reference to check what it means . Oriolpont (talk) 18:17, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Time Units Please 

message: "Georgia went through the worst inflation in 1994."
This sentence form is repeated a number of times. It makes no sense as written. It might mean "Georgia went through ITS worst inflation in 1994," but "the" worst inflation can only happen once, not the many times this article would have.
GeneCallahan 13:25, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "The Worst Inflation" 

message: :Image:Yougoslavia 50 billion bank note.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 21:27, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Yougoslavia 50 billion bank note.jpg

message: :Image:Millionlira.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 17:14, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Millionlira.jpg