Talk:Old King Cole

message: Old King Cole was a merry old soul 
And a merry old soul was he; 
He called for his pipe, and he called for his bowl 
And he called for his fiddlers three. 
Every fiddler he had a fiddle, 
And a very fine fiddle had he; 
Oh there's none so rare, as can compare 
With King Cole and his fiddlers three.
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The instance of "pipe" need not imply a knowledge of tobacco. The term is very old, often referring to a musical instrument. Although "bowl" may well refer to something like a drinking bowl, the term is often used for gaming devices, and might be part of allusion to a general context of "merriment," but I wonder if the text has not become deformed. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, we have a reference dated about 1450 to the "lilt pipe, the lute, and the fiddle." Since lutes contained a bowl-like part, I wonder if the reference here is not to the lute.
In any case, it is not impossible that the nursery rhyme goes back to a period closer to the life of King Cole, presumably Coel Hen, who seems to belong to the early Fifth Century. We should also presume that the present nursery rhyme is a translation or rendition of an earlier bit, possibly in a Celtic language about Cole.
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This information conflicts with the dates in Colchester. Hotlorp 03:27, 11 Jan 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  

message: Yes!  This is the kind of introductions Wikipedia needs more of!  I must say that whoever made that intro did a very good job of it.  --81.97.192.106 11:38, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed.  I came to the talk page just to see if anyone else had the same opinion of this forthright intro that I did.  Really an excellent way to go about it.  Mr. IP (talk) 04:14, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Introduction 

message: :The United States military also has a version in the form of a marching cadence during the 1980s
Oh, come on-- I have a Community Singing songbook (so it's from before the first world war) and it's British and it contains this version. Marnanel (talk) 21:42, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The US military 

message: As a folk/tradtional musician i can confirm that the term "pipe" or "pipes"is commonly used as an informal term for bagpipes of any type/origin.--Northerncelts (talk) 19:19, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Transferred from article page 

message: There is a lot of information of Coel Hen and his descendents as well as his kingdom, and I think an entire spearate article could be built out of that, with only a summary on this page. If noone has any objections, I would like to do just that.---G.T.N.  —Preceding comment was added at 17:20, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Splitting 

message: Coal mining has nothing to do with this article's subject, it's just a homonym of a work in the title.  Was someone pranking when they added it?  I suppose I should be italic and remove it... Huw Powell (talk) 20:47, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  King Coal? 

message: It says "it cannot be qualified as English", but in the sidebar/infopanel it says "country: England; language: English".  Now, if something which comes from England cannot be qualified as English, what can?
The first sentence appears to imply that the rhyme is believed to originate in Wales and/or be a translation from Welsh or from Celtic, but no evidence for this proposition is put forward in the article, which also mentions the possibility that Cole is a reference to a Reading (and so English) cloth merchant and not to King Coel.  With so much confusion and contradiction, the article does not make a lot of sense. 86.150.195.140 (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 16:01, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article contradicts itself 

message: Suggest 'pipe' refers to a 'pipe' of wine, or ale. 'Bowl' refers to a drinking vessel, cf 'fill the flowing bowl' Hence, Old King Cole planned to get 'merry', with wine and music. 
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_wine_cask_units
And see : http://www.darachweb.net/SongLyrics/LandlordFillTheFlowingBowl.html
121.44.155.135 (talk) 21:15, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pipe?