Talk:Cleveland (disambiguation)

message: I am pretty confused about what has happened to Cleveland, England, but I think that it is no longer a county. There is a Redcar & Cleveland local govt authority but not, as was suggested here and on the relevant page, an actual county of Cleveland. If I'm wrong please let me know! :) Nevilley 19:02 Dec 15, 2002 (UTC)
:Cleveland isn't a county and Redcar & Cleveland is a part of the former county but it doesn't cover parts of the ex-county such as Middlesbrough. Computerjoe's talk 20:01, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Cleveland, England

message: True or false: many of these in the United States are honors of Grover Cleveland. This is helpful in determining Cleveland's honor rank. (See Talk:George Washington for what an honor rank is.) 66.245.64.54 15:51, 15 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  True or false?? 

message: Someone tried to redirect this page to Cleveland, Ohio.  He also created a Cleveland (disambiguation) page.  Perhaps THIS page Cleveland should be a direct to Cleveland (disambiguation) but it seems like it should definitely not go to Cleveland, Ohio automatically. See also here.
:That redirect was the correct thing to do, IMO. I'm requesting a reinstatement the move and redirect. - EurekaLott 01:18, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: That redirect was a bad mistake and must not be repeated, IMO. Having "Cleveland" is the disamb page is great, having it go to Ohio would be stupid. Don't do it please. 138.37.188.109 18:27, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

text: Support I can't speak for American usage, but to be honest, if somebody says 'Cleveland' to me, I'll think of the American city, not the British usage. (Granted I live in the south of England though). --Neo 16:20, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

text: *I don't know about you, but I would rather not think of the American city if you know what I mean. —ExplorerCDT 16:46, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

text: Cleveland, Ohio should not be moved. The current name conforms to naming conventions. For reference, Minneapolis redirects to Minneapolis, Minnesota, Atlanta redirects to Atlanta, Georgia, Miami redirects to Miami, Florida, Detroit redirects to Detroit, Michigan, Philadelphia redirects to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and so on. - EurekaLott 18:46, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Redirect? 

message: The Cleveland article would then become a redirect to Cleveland, Ohio. This move was made and than undone, but it seems like a good idea. See discussion at Wikipedia talk:How to rename (move) a page#Redirect policy? - EurekaLott 01:34, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Support I can't speak for American usage, but to be honest, if somebody says 'Cleveland' to me, I'll think of the American city, not the British usage. (Granted I live in the south of England though). --Neo 16:20, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

text: *I don't know about you, but I would rather not think of the American city if you know what I mean. —ExplorerCDT 16:46, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

text: Cleveland, Ohio should not be moved. The current name conforms to naming conventions. For reference, Minneapolis redirects to Minneapolis, Minnesota, Atlanta redirects to Atlanta, Georgia, Miami redirects to Miami, Florida, Detroit redirects to Detroit, Michigan, Philadelphia redirects to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and so on. - EurekaLott 18:46, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Cleveland]] &rarr; [[Cleveland (disambiguation)]]

message: Sorry but this link wording: "Cleveland, a former county in England (1974–96) now known as Tees Valley" is VERY difficult to love. In a historical view, the English Cleveland was a county for a few minutes and has been an ex-county for a few minutes more. It was the historic name of an area for really quite a bit longer than that. Furthermore it maps BADLY onto Tees Valley. I've replaced that wording with something that makes sense. 138.37.188.109 18:27, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Engish wording 

message: In my opinion, Cleveland should redirect to this disambig. Cleveland, England's borough's in total have a population over 500,000. Also, the fact you have have Grover Cleveland, which is surely another notable Cleveland? Computerjoe's talk 19:41, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another redirect arguement 

message: This is anti-nonamerican! Cleveland, Ohio is not the first cleveland so cleveland should go to a disambiguation page. Man! Serminigo 17:46, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It would seem that consensus deems Cleveland, OH is more notable than the rest. Computerjoe's talk 20:02, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  What 

message: There is a proposal on WP:RM to move :Cleveland, Ohio to :Cleveland;  see Talk:Cleveland, Ohio#Requested move. --Una Smith (talk) 14:55, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleveland, Ohio notice of requested move 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 
The result of the move request was: not moved. Despite arguments put forth against this, consensus shows that Cleveland the city is, according to the opinions of several editors, the primary topic.  JudgeRM (talk to me) 03:12, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't the stats show that Cleveland the president gets way more hits than Cleveland the city? Presidents are often called by last name; a few are actually primarytopic (Eisenhower, Nixon, Reagan and Obama). Why do you think the city should be primarytopic in such a situation? Dicklyon (talk) 04:05, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: He doesn't get "way more". If you discount the spike from this year's election, the city is often ahead of him. Presidents are often referred to by last name only, but not all have gone down particularly well-known as such. This is especially true for Grover; the city was already named and prominent before he took office (population was 261,000ish when he was first elected and only rose from there). I'd say most people would know Cleveland as the Ohio city over Grover, since both are US-centric but the city has the benefit of a large population, several sports teams, and still being around today despite its incorporation predating Grover's birth by 20-or-so years. Nohomersryan (talk) 05:14, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes the AP is American, but their general policy doesn't only apply to American cities. In other words, its a valid secondary source that refers to the city in Ohio as "Cleveland" instead of "Cleveland, Ohio". The way it doesn't use states or countries for certain cities is a reflection on the reality that in some cases, a specific city is understood by most readers without adding that city's US state or country. The AP also does not use "England" or "UK" when it references London, or "France" when it references Paris, even though there are also quite a few places and things in the world named London and Paris. Again, the Primary Topic aspect comes not from readers' preferences, but how it's referred in secondary sources. --JonRidinger (talk) 14:01, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

text: You raise an interesting point regarding the searchbox: why is it limited to 10 items? Why not allow up to 15 or more? How is the searchbox item-limit set? The seachbox is a de facto disambiguation, which is problematic when it becomes an incomplete disambiguation. Maybe when the searchbox item-limit is exceeded, the search algorithm should force search term (disambiguation) into the results, if it exists. Perhaps label it "more" so that it's more clear to readers who may not understand our qualifier "xxx (disambiguation)". wbm1058 (talk) 17:57, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

text: This disambiguation page gets a whole 30 hits a day (compared with 3,057/day for Cleveland), so it would appear most readers are not being inconvenienced by the disambiguation. If they were looking for another aspect of "Cleveland" and were directed here by the Cleveland article hatnote, there would be significantly more traffic here. --JonRidinger (talk) 14:01, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry to prick your logic-balloon, which has just sprayed all over. You must somehow be aware of the proportion of people clicking on "Cleveland" in the WP search facility who know exactly what they're clicking on: care to share this with us? They might be after any of the myriad items listed at the DAB page.So of course the rorschach term "Cleveland" gets a zillion hits. Conversely, a DAB page with the title "X (disambiguation)" might just as well be concealed in a dark room with a sign on the door saying "Beware of the leopard"; it will get very few hits. Tony (talk)  05:31, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

text: The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move.  Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The close might be OK if it said "in the opinion of lots of editors" rather than "in fact".  Dicklyon (talk) 03:37, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

text: I've changed it to a more appropriate wording based on your request. I still stand by my close, however. JudgeRM (talk to me) 04:18, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks.  The idea that primarytopic status is a matter of "fact" seemed highly peculiar. Dicklyon (talk) 04:22, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 10 December 2016 

message: I note that editor JonRidinger failed to mention that he is a resident of Cleveland, Ohio, and is or has been active on numerous wikiprojects and other institutional organisations that are dedicated to the theme of that city. Conflict of interest writ large. Tony (talk)  08:13, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: That's not a WP:COI. A COI is when someone works for or is otherwise closely connected with the subject of an article, so bias could potentially be included in edits. An instance would be if I worked for the city of Cleveland or the Greater Cleveland Convention and Visitors Bureau. Just because I live in Northeast Ohio and have been involved in editing Cleveland-area articles doesn't mean I have a COI. In the end, my opinion regarding whether the city in Ohio is a primary topic is based on Wikipedia precedent and policy, not because I have some local desire for the city to not have "Ohio" in the title. I've edited far more articles on other cities than I have Cleveland and participated in many naming discussions for articles. And just FYI,  is also from the Cleveland area. Doesn't lessen that editor's opinion in any way. --JonRidinger (talk) 14:01, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Failure to disclose interest in RM above