Talk:Groove metal

message: If you look the words "groove metal" up on any search engine you wouldn't get much. I noticed people were using websites like last.fm and metal archives for history on the term during the discussion for the article's deletion, both non reliable sources. And the only reliable source even used in this article is Pantera's allmusic entry. The only other major sources I've really found on the genre are Blender refering to "Welcome to the Jungle" and I've read a book called The Rough Guide to Rock that dubs White Zombie "metal groove". Neither of which go indepth on any history. Terms in wider use like blues-metal, pop metal(well I tried to give this one a page, but it was unfortunatly deleted), and southern metal don't even have articles here. Can anyone find anything about this style's origin, history, anything? This article's notability is on thin ice. RG (talk) 01:47, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no evidence to support that these two terms are interchangeble. "Post-thrash" isn't really a notable style as well. RG (talk) 22:34, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Neither of these sources give a history of the music or a description of how the music sounds. Does anyone have any other reliable sources that mention this style? RG (talk) 00:31, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

text: That reference isn't reliable. RG (talk) 18:28, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is this notable enough for an article? 

message: Can anyone give me a reason why Rate Your Music would be considered a reliable source? RG (talk) 18:09, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rate Your Music 

message: This page as well as nu metal have been reverted. Learn to edit. You dont DELETE everything. You pick thorough the parts and if they are ABSOLUTELY FALSE or completely unverifiable, then remove it.70.119.201.161 (talk) 18:29, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reverted 

message: Can someone add some characteristics about that? There's an empty section there, by the way. 112.203.182.93 (talk) 15:10, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Characteristics 

message: We've found one short article that's not well written or researched about groove metal and use that to base essentially ALL of our knowledge bank of groove metal on? Since when has groove metal been a fusion of hip-hop? Funk and dance, I can understand but there are no hip-hop elements in groove metal. This is turning very slowly in to a clone of the nu metal section. Groove metal of old certainly wasn't hip-hop based or anything along the lines of Korn. Groove metal of the 2000's certainly isn't influenced by hip-hop (cite: Machine Head, Warrel Dane, Gojira, Lamb of God, Mastodon, Meshuggah and every other band on there APART FROM Korn). I would like to just remove the whole reference of Korn being groove metal and just start again with another article because there's too little to base an article of any depth on.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tordah16 (talk • contribs) 20:33, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Korn? Really? 

message: Hahaha. Anybody says anything Spiritual Beggars is not a groove metal band at all, so it must be removed from the Groups section. -- Aranyos (talk) 08:09, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spiritual Beggars? 

message: The source currently used in the article from the Washington Post which cites Korn as an example of groove metal should not be used. While you should obviously use reliable sources, this does not mean we have to use every single reliable source available. And this particular source is not the most important to use. Considering it does not match up with the facts presented every other source, it's pretty clear that is actually talking about nu metal. For these reasons, I believe that all reference to this article be removed from the article. Munci (talk) 00:27, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The general issue may have but still this does not mean we have to use every single reliable source available. The page WP:RS outlines what can be used as a source, not what has to be used as a source. Munci (talk) 19:58, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Washington Post on Korn 

message: Hello everyone! I have read the references section here and concluded that most of sources are refering this "groove metal" as a term and adjective not a genre. These reviewers are simply merging "groove" with "metal" for their own sake; in most of the text passages the writers use the word "groove" without "metal". I think it was necessary someone with a different opinion give some input regarding the legitimacy of this article.--Malconfort (talk) 16:56, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Burden of evidence 

message: (inappropriate content removed)
: The term has reliable sources. --Confession0791 talk 04:34, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I love how everyone takes the name of this genre so badly. It just means that it's metal with a lot of emphasis on a groove styled rhythm. Calm down.Ximmerman (talk) 16:12, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Groove Metal??????!!!!!! 

message: This article is still here and I've been gone a year. My job is done. Vindicated. Thank you. – B.hotep •talk• 23:43, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: P.S. I don't really care. – B.hotep •talk• 23:45, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Still here? 

message: It was really influenced by groove metal. both articles about Nu metal and Groove metal having reliable sources say it. --82.139.5.13 (talk) 09:36, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Myxomatosis75 (talk) 14:13, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nu metal should be added to devirative genres 

message: they're first album sounds pretty groove metalish to me  — Preceding unsigned comment added by I call the big one bitey (talk • contribs) 22:04, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Life of Agony = Groove metal? 

message: Wants these removed, I think it should be discussed so, I'm starting this thread to gain consensus, interested editors please chime in.  Mlpearc (open channel) 15:55, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: These were added today by an IP, and are not backed by any sources. Gain a consensus for adding them if you want. As for metalcore and post-hardcore as derivatives, that's also not backed by anything (in their own articles neither) and doesn't make sense since both genres originated in the 1980s before groove metal was around. Can I remove the unsourced info now?--MASHAUNIX 16:19, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Your edit summary should have mentioned this.  Mlpearc (open channel) 16:22, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: It was in history just before my edit, and even if the info wasn't added by an IP today, it's still unsourced and my edit justified. It's nothing to worry about though.--MASHAUNIX 17:28, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:   Jazz, Hardcore punk, Crossover thrash 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Neue Deutsche Harte (Rammstein, Oomph, Eisbrecher and etc.) was influenced by Groove metal.Uwe Rothhämel: Interview mit Oomph!. In: New Life Soundmagazine, Heft-Nr. 5/94, Mai 1994, Seite 7.. So, can we add NDH to derivatives of Groove metal?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aljan2000 (talk • contribs) 04:44, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neue Deutsche Harte. 

message: I believe Industrial Metal, Sludge Metal, and Metalcore should be put under the Derivative forms next to Nu Metal. All the genres listed include similar atmospheres and at times riffing styles. These genres were all appearing around the same time that being the early to mid 90s and show that they all heavily worked off each other. Industrial Metal bands such as Fear Factory, Nailbomb, Ministry, Static X, and Strapping Young Lad have been listed as groove metal bands or have at least have made groove metal album within their discography. Examples includes Fear Factorys "Demanufacture"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demanufacture_(album), Nailbombs "Point Blank"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_Blank_(Nailbomb_album) (which was worked on by Max Cavalerahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_A.D. and Alex Newporthttps://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Fudge_Tunnel/103424, both acclaimed groove metal artists), Static Xs "Cannibal"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannibal_(Static-X_album), Strapping Young Lad and Ministry have been listed as groove metal on the platform "Last fm"https://www.last.fm/tag/groove+metal/artists?page=8. Sludge Metal bands such as Acid Bath, Crowbar, Corrosion of Conformity, Down, Superjoint Ritual and Fudge Tunnel (which was worked on by the previous mentioned Alex Newport) have all been compared to the likes of bands such as Pantera, Prong, and Helmet (bands who were extremely influential to groove metal and pioneered it) as seen on the similar artists tabs on their Metal Archives pages https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Fudge_Tunnel/103424https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Acid_Bath/19. Sludge Metal is strongly influenced by Hardcore Punk just like Groove Metal, their scenes even overlapped in New Orleans with bands such as Crowbar and Exhorder (Often consider the god father of groove metal) being from their. Metalcores origins can be tied back to bands such as Earth Crisishttps://www.metalsucks.net/2010/09/08/album-of-the-day-earth-crises-destroy-the-machines-via-believer/, Merauderhttps://www.last.fm/music/Merauder/Master+Killer, Pro Pain, and Hatebreed, all bands who have been cited to have heavy groove metal influence or have even made a groove metal album. The NWOAHM is also comprised mostly of metalcore bands who are often labeled as groove metal as well, this includes bands such as Lamb of God, Chimaira, Machine Head (A strong influence to Earth Crisis), Shadows Fall, and Trivium. With all of this presented I hope these genres can be added onto groove metals derivative forms.
:There's clearly a lot of research you put into this but none of the source you provided pass WP:RELIABLESOURCES and much of this is WP:SYNTH because you're reaching a conclusion from two unrelated sources. You'd need to find something that passes WP:RS and overtly states, say, "groove metal was influential on the development of sludge metal" for it to be included. Issan Sumisu (talk) 06:36, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  More derivative forms 

message: Currently the only influence listed is thrash metal, but that’s not true. The genre also takes influence from death metal, sludge metal, and hard rock. It’s not just thrash metal slowed down, it’s also heavier and bluesier. Ganondox (talk) 08:02, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Influences