Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Board and table games/Archive 2

message: *Actually this isn't under our scope despite it being a game played on a table... but see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Beer pong.  The topic falls under WP:NFT, but it's been "made up one day" so many times that reliable sources have discussed it.  Barno 18:03, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ... a tabletop game gets AfD'ed ... 

message: User:TnS has been adding a huge number of external links to MobyGames via a template that also links to the article about the site.  The link I discovered was to an totally worthless page.  Garbage like this should never be linked as it plainlu violates WP:EL and common sense.  While no doubt some of the MobyGames pages merit links, it is improper to just add a link to any article just because a site like MobyGames or BoardGameGeek happen to have a page dedicated to a particular game.  The external link needs to meet the merit external link guideline WP:EL.  That concept is pretty straightforward but I wanted to post a message here so we try and head off any mass inappropriate addions in the future, especially involving a template. 2005 10:41, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Template spamming

message: Some board game articles have their Rules section before History (Chess, Mancala), and others are the other way around (Backgammon, Go). Should this be standardized? I prefer having rules first, because knowing the rules can aid an understanding of the game's history and development (see Chess#Origins of the modern game (1450—1850)) more than knowing the game's history helps one understand the rules. — Elembis 17:25, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would think that it's going to depend on the game. In the case of backgammon, the games that it developed from are significantly different, and it's enough to know that it's a dice-driven race before getting into the history. In the case of go, the overarching concepts of the rules are simple enough that no familiarity with them is needed to go into the history first. —ptk✰fgs 18:22, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rules or History first? 

message: I've noticed that many games like Niagara (board game) and Carcassonne (board game) end with "(board game)".  Source of the nile (game) just has "(game)".  I wanted to know if there is a naming convention before I rename it to Source of the Nile (board game). Val42 18:41, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There's no project-specific convention, and the guidance at WP:TITLE, WP:PRECISION and WP:DAB doesn't go into that level of detail.  However, my experience has been that "Foo (game)" will often be assumed to be a computer game, so it's best to go with "Foo (board game)".  Percy Snoodle 19:06, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Naming convention

message: I'm thinking that a category like "TimJim games" would be useful. I wanted to know what the general thoughts were -- is it ok to make a category based on publisher (unlike theme, like 18xx), and also, how do you make a new category? --Keybounce 05:49, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Board game categories by publisher are fine, but remember each of the games in that category would need to meet wikipedia's notability guidelines.  If the publisher's games are in general less-notable ones, you'd be better off creating "List of TimJim games" and populating it as a minor topics list in the style of List of Doctor Who aliens.  To create a category, add an article to the category as you normally would, then click the red category link at the bottom of the page to start the category's article in the usual way. Percy Snoodle 10:43, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Category help 

message: Back in December I proposed a merger for three fair use templates, Template:Game-cover, Template:Boardgamecover, and Template:RPG-artwork.  I made an effort to publicise the merge on the villiage pump and various places that deal with fair use templates.  After a lot of support on tfd and a lack of opposition elsewhere I attempted the merge on January 15.  Post-merge I've had two objections, one of which said that I "should have brought up the merge with the various projects that manage those covers" (which I thought I was doing when I informed WikiProject Fair use).  The merge has been reverted by the person who said I should have brought up the merge in more places.  So here we go... IF ANYONE FROM THIS PROJECT CARES ABOUT THIS MERGE PLEASE VISIT Template_talk:Game-cover#Merge AND JOIN IN DISCUSSION THERE. ~ ONUnicorn(Talk|Contribs)problem solving 20:46, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fair use template 

message: I've started an article on the latest Catan game, Struggle for Rome - I've added as much detail as one could possibly stomach, however, there's a lot to be desired:
* The lead section is not good enough - it is a game "published under license from Catan GmbH", without saying that the English language licensor is Mayfair Games.  (As a matter of fact, this is true for virtually all new Teuber offerings, Catan or not, so earlier articles may have to be changed)
* I've also noticed that while Struggle for Rome is acknowledged to be the second game in Catan Histories, the Settlers of the Stone Age article should have a blurb saying that the only mention of it being the first game in the series is on the Struggle for Rome box and instructions.
* The Struggle for Rome instruction states that the Kampf au Rom name was taken from one (possibly two) unrelated board games, and that the name was used with permission from those games' publishers.  If they meet notability criteria, there may need to be a disambig or other resolution device there...
If anyone could help improve it, then it would be appreciated. kelvSYC 03:46, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Up for improvement: [[Struggle for Rome (board game)|Struggle for Rome]] 

message: The articles on Wikipedia concerning Warhammer and 40K are in relatively sad shape. Can we start a task force on Warhammer and 40K?  N i g h t F a l c o n 9 0 9 0 9 T a l k 14:48, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Warhammer Task Force

message: I have taken good pictures of the following games- HeroQuest, Battle Masters, Axis and Allies, LotR Risk, and several others. Unfortunately our antivirus software prevents uploading. Could have someone's email address so I could send the pictures? Thanks  N i g h t F a l c o n 9 0 9 0 9 T a l k 14:48, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  I come with pictures

message: I asked this in the BrettspielWelt talk page, but this might be a good place, as well.  There was an article on the website in the Feb 2004 Games Magazine.  I've long since discarded mine, so I'm not sure what it says, but does anyone here have it?  It would be nice to be able to add that referece to the article.Chunky Rice 23:21, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  References for BrettspielWelt article 

message: I'd like to suggest that it becomes project policy to put images of First Edition box art of commercially available games in the info-box, wherever possible as is common practice with books. It would seem to me encyclopedic and pictures of the latest editions could appear to be advertising. With traditional games (backgammon, chess), then the earliest historical examples of boards or game pieces would probably be confusing to the average reader - so the very generic examples are good. --Davémon 19:37, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox images 

message: Look at this game: Scabby Annie. Is it notable? Perhaps Scabby Annie should be briefly merged (or simply redirected) to Hearts? What do you think? Guroadrunner 13:30, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Speedy it, this is textbook WP:NFT. —ptk✰fgs 04:19, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Does this sound like a variant of Hearts to you? 

message: Anyone have any improvements for Muggins (domino game) ? Guroadrunner 05:46, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Muggins]] 

message: I was looking at the Miniature wargaming article and it has a cleanup tag.  I'm probably not the best one to clean it up, but I would like to know how do I find out if the tag refers to the whole article or a particular section.  Also where I could find guidelines about how to write it in a more encyclopedic format.
I'm asking this here since the talk page says it's part of this project.
Thanks Jack1968ES 13:45, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If a cleanup tag is in a section, it generally refers only to that section; if it's at the top of the article, it generally refers to the whole article.  Guidelines can be found at the Manual of Style. Percy Snoodle 13:50, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. If I have more questions after reading I would probably coming back here. Jack1968ES 13:53, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Miniature Wargaming 

message: Is anyone verifying that a game has actually won the awards that are being listed for it? According to the article for  Power Grid, it was on the Games Magazine's Games 100 list for 2005. However, if you follow the link, the game is not on the list. Am I missing something? Or has this award been misquoted for Power Grid?
Wjcolion 19:05, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *My apologies.  However you want to phrase it, I was just trying to explain the disparity between the list of 100 and the abbreviate list on the Games Magazine site, which is that the site just has the "best in show" winners as you put it, and not the rest of the list.Chunky Rice 19:11, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Awards Listings 

message: Xiangqi has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here.
LuciferMorgan 15:07, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Xiangqi FAR

message: I've started a discussion about moving Template:Future game to Template:Future video game.  If you're interested, please have your say at Template talk:Future game#Requested move. Percy Snoodle 11:32, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moving [[Template:Future game]] 

message: Any suggestions or help anyone can give on my Chaos Marauders page - thanks. --Davémon 19:25, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Chaos Marauders]] 

message: The Fightball article has been given a notability tag. As one of the game's designers, I can't really mess with the article (I haven't touched it in two years). Does someone else want to try to bring this one up to standards?--Mike Selinker 19:05, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll take a look at it.  Are you aware of any good secondary sources or awards to use for material?  I see a review at About.com, which has editorial oversight, so that's something, but not too much else.  Chunky Rice 19:12, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe this:  . You can also look at www.fightball.com. I don't remember the game winning any awards, but it sold a bunch of copies, and it's still in print. I think it's as notable as Deadwood (game) or Bitin' Off Hedz or most of the other Cheapass Games with articles, though less notable than Button Men or Kill Doctor Lucky. But whatever works.--Mike Selinker 14:52, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Gave it a good once over, adding the two reviews, taking off the notability tag and doing some general clean-up.  Still probably needs work, but I think it's a good start.Chunky Rice 18:02, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. I felt a little uncomfortable bringing this up, so thanks for taking care of it.--Mike Selinker 19:26, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The conflict of interest guidelines say that you should avoid editing the article, but discussing potential improvements in talkspace is actually the recommended course of action, so I don't think there's anything wrong with it.  I'll go ahead and copy this discussion to the article talkpage, in the interest of full disclosure.Chunky Rice 19:36, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Fightball]] 

message: *The article References to the board game Risk in popular culture has been nominated for deletion.  If you know of attributable sources supporting that article's contents, or if you wish to comment on whether to keep, delete, or merge the article into a section in the Risk (game) article, please comment in the AfD discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/References to the board game Risk in popular culture.  Barno 03:46, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Risk-in-popular-culture article is at AfD 

message: The article Noah's Ark, A Journey Through Faith Board Game has been nominated for deletion at the April 19 page of WP:AFD.  The game is new, so there doesn't appear to be published material about the game yet.  Judging from the creator's comment, there's probably nothing to add to that discussion, but if you've seen it mentioned in reliable sources, you might wish to note the fact at that AfD discussion.  Barno 20:57, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  boardgame article at AfD 

message: I am currently putting some finishing touches on The Price Is Right (US game show) article to submit for FA consideration, but the section on home games needs some help. This is not my area of expertise, nor do I have any idea what sort of reliable sources I should be using. I also feel that, even though it is a section of the article, that it should follow some of the standards by the board game community. If I could get a few eyes over there for some help it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! —Twigboy 17:30, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Price Is Right games 

message: If I take a picture of a game in progress/set up and release it under the GFDL, is that okay under Wikipedia's copyright rules?  I note that this is the rationale for the picture in the Settlers of Catan infobox.  What if the cover is included in the photograph?  
If it's not sufficient that I took the photo, then it should still be useable under fair use, as long as it's used to identify and critique/discuss the game, correct? -Chunky Rice 17:49, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *Great.  I'll get started.  Based on your take on fair use images on Wikipedia, you think that it would be appropriate to replace fair use box-shots with GFDL set-up game shots? -Chunky Rice 01:22, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *Yes.  The box cover shots don't add much if anything to the article; a set-up game can be more helpful.  GFDL pics are always preferred over fair-use ones.  Thanks for working on a part of the project that I'm not equipped for. Barno 13:25, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyright/Fair use question for pictures of games 

message: A recently created article on the boardgame The Sorcerer's Cave is up for AfD. The main premise of the AfD is a lack of  notability. The game is from 1978 and despite it's popularity and subsequent influence, there aren't many reliable, non-trivial sources on the internet. If anyone can help provide notability references, it will hopefully survive AfD and the article will be improved. Davémon 16:27, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I sent a BGG message to the designer to inquire if he had any articles about the game that he saved.  I don't know if he checks that inbox, though. -Chunky Rice 17:06, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks for the effort, but it seems that Wikipedia isn't ready for an article regarding The Sorcerer's Cave, as it has been deleted. Other than perhaps complaining about systemic bias in wikipedia, and bemoaning the lack of serious academic or journalistic enquiry into games and past-times, I doubt there is much to be done to reinstate the article for now. Hopefully the  AfD discussion itself will be of use to anyone looking to propose notability guidelines for board-games. --Davémon 11:42, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  The AfD for the Sorcerers Cave has now been re-opened (apparently because of an error last time). If anyone has anything they'd like to add to the debate before it is closed again please do so at theThe Sorcerer's Cave AfD. --Davémon 16:03, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The Sorcerer's Cave Boardgame at AfD / Notability