Talk:Crown Heights riot

message: Wikipedia's charge is to cite scholarly evidence first, especially as it pertains to material in peer-reviewed journals and periodicals. Therefore, the moving of material from the 2nd scholar who was making a different point than the first scholar under a footnote to an opinion of the community is preferring secondary evidence over primary evidence. I have no problem with the opinion of the community being cited, so I have attempted to group the material together as the previous editor intended, but left the best evidence first. 68.43.236.4 (talk) 23:21, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going to combine the two academic references. I don't see any good reason why the lede needs to cite two professors and their lengthy titles. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 00:16, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, and it looks better.68.43.236.4 (talk) 02:42, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  On mixing scholars with opinions of the community 

message: If someone knows how to Archive this page (to "Archive 2", please do so up to but not including the section "On mixing scholars with opinions of the community", which is where the discussion resumes after the mediation. Thank you.68.43.236.4 (talk) 13:11, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I archived the messages as you requested. For future reference, click on the word "Archives" to get help on archiving a talk page. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 07:33, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks! It seems to be a rather complicated procedure.68.43.236.4 (talk) 23:17, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request to archive 

message: The statements added by this editor are false.Edstat (talk) 04:01, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: 67.189.242.42 

message: The article overview / lead paragraph mentions that the child was "struck", and the next mention tells us that the child was "injured", and it's lmost in passing in the 5th paragraph that we learn the child died. It seems like the overview paragraph could mention that the child was "struck by the car and subsequently died from the injuries" or something. I know that this article is politically charged, and however the story is told will be controversial. But the boys death does seem almost willfully buried here.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.86.248.1 (talk) 13:01, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a good point. I'll take a stab at fixing it. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 02:47, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Death of child not mentioned until 5th paragraph of second section 

message: Though, I find nothing discernibly wrong with the facts of this article, I do find the tone a bit biased. As stated above, this article is very much politically/racially charged, and it would be a shame to seem one-sided. Example: the opening which states one historian's account of this incident as "the most serious anti-Semitic incident of in American History" and the event is viewed as an example of yet another "pogrom", are, quite simply, opinions. These perhaps do not belong in the general description which heads this piece. Also, contrasting quotes in the "Impact of the riot on the 1993 mayoral race" section like, " '...offical indifference to the plight of Jews, contributed to the defeat of incumbent mayor of New York' ", with "...vocal proponents of 'black nationalism, back-to-Africa, economic radicalism, and racial exclusiveness' " suggests an opinion of the articles author. Please consider --Jesse.parnell (talk) 02:05, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Those statements are in quotation marks because they are direct quotations from sources. One approach to dealing with contentious issues is to quote directly from sources instead of trying to summarize them (and risk inserting one's own POV). If you feel that other points of view aren't being reflected properly, find reliable sources and let's add them to the article. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 02:39, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I added the banner on behalf of Jesse.parnell. He's a friend of mine; I was showing him how to edit articles, add templates, etc., and that seemed the most appropriate, based on his qualms. I have no real stake in this. --Grahamdubya (talk) 04:37, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for clarifying. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 04:57, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Questionable tone... 

message: I can't find an article online where David Dinkins gave Lee Brown that particular command.  Maybe the author of the sentence might be confused with another controversial Brooklyn incident at the Walt Whitman projects http://www.villagevoice.com/2003-07-29/news/the-visible-man/ where, after a series of gunshots aimed at the police, residents were withheld from leaving their homes by the NYPD in search of the suspects. Responding to the turmoil, James Davis, a councilman, advised police officers to attend a meeting discussing the incident and to "Let them vent.", referring to outraged tenants and community leaders. (For some reason, my footnote link doesn't work.  So here it is again: http://www.villagevoice.com/2003-07-29/news/the-visible-man/. )Winstonwolf33 (talk) 19:42, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm also unable to find a source that supports that assertion. The statement has been tagged as "citation needed" in this article since October 2008. I'm going to look for sources for the entire paragraph and remove it if I can't find any. — Malik Shabazz  19:53, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Let them vent" 

message: I've deleted the following paragraph from the article:
:On September 5th, after the main riots had been controlled, Anthony Graziosi, an Italian salesrep dressed in dark business attire, was driving in the neighborhood. As he stopped at a traffic light at 11 pm, a crowd surrounded his car and one of the group fired a gun at him, leading to his death.
The section isn't sourced, and without a source it isn't clear that a shooting on September 5 was related to the three-day-long riot that took place two weeks earlier. — Malik Shabazz  21:39, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anthony Graziosi 

message: Here's a citation that includes the archived URL, but I am not sure if the format should be news or journal: 
 MichelleInSanMarcos (talk) 23:19, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Girgenti report 

message: It seems this subject is only notable for the role he played in sparking the Crown Heights Riot, so I'm proposed it be merged there, and that this article be redirected to that one. Any objections? — Hunter Kahn (c) 00:10, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: None. In fact, Cato's article had nothing of value, so I was BOLD and turned it into a redirect myself. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 00:21, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

text: *Fine by me. — Hunter Kahn (c) 01:53, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed [[Gavin Cato]] merge to [[Crown Heights riot]] 

message: This is not a big deal, but this is a weird headline.  Saying that some event "precipitated" a riot doesn't imply that it was the sole cause, and this section is only about the car accident and its immediate aftermath, it doesn't mention any longstanding community tensions.  It isn't necessary to say "immediately."Prezbo (talk) 11:08, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Your change is better. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 05:01, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Event immediately precipitating the riot" 

message: Maybe another redirect? --68.9.117.21 (talk) 13:35, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: His nearly 2,000 gnews hits over the last two decades suggests that he has had ongoing coverage and is not, as you suggested on his talk page, subject to blp1e.--Epeefleche (talk) 14:38, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe not. IronDuke 22:33, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Lemrick Nelson]]

message: Isn't it a travesty of our society (wikipedia including) that Lemrick Nelson has an article as large as this one and Yankel Rosenbaum has none? I know, I know, you will readily tell me that Yankel did nothing notable but getting killed while Lemrick was a noticeable bad bro. <Sigh> ...   Loew Galitz (talk) 20:12, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I hear you, but unfortunately, Yankel never had a chance to do anything else with his life, while Lemrick did. IronDuke 19:42, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Yankel Rosenbaum vs Lemrick Nelson

message: It seems remarkable that a driver breaking a traffic light at speed, striking a  legitimate cross traffic car, mounting the pavement, taking out a half ton pillar and then a wall and then killing a child should escape any conviction ?  In Europe a dangerous driving charge or a manslaughter charge would have been likely. Is there any record of the driver or his employer paying compensation to the parents of the dead child and of the severely injured child ? Any info on the life of the severely injured child today ?--— ⦿⨦⨀Tumadoireacht Talk/Stalk 11:35, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: As Lipsh says, he believed he had the right to run the light because of the accompanying police escort. Mk17b (talk) 18:27, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  dangerous driving ? compensation ? 

message: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/timeline-1991-crown-heights-riots-unfolded-article-1.945012.
http://www.villagevoice.com/2002-01-15/news/the-crown-heights-quiets/
The death of the mob victim Mr. Rosenbaum being due (at least in part) to an overlooked wound is new, to this WP article at any rate.
Here is an article 
http://www.villagevoice.com/2002-01-15/news/the-crown-heights-quiets/ 
that mentions also  that it was the city of NY rather than the offending driver or his organization, who paid out the 400,000 dollar compensation for the death of child victim  Gavin Cato and also references  the reversals of the  federal convictions of Lemrick Nelson jr. and of Charles Price on the charge of violating the rights of  mob victim Yankel Rosenbaum. It also references the Cato father  and his  more recent expressions on the deaths of and of seeking justice for his son and niece.  Should we include this?--— ⦿⨦⨀Tumadoireacht Talk/Stalk 04:23, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  recent retrospective articles -useful ? details not in WP article  

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Was Dinkins attacked by proponents of black nationalism, economic radicalism etc. or was he attacked for allegedly giving the nod to black nationalism, economic radicalism, and so on? The latter seems more likely (based on the context), but the sentence does not make this particularly clear. 
"He was attacked by many political adversaries in his reelection bid, including vocal proponents of “black nationalism, back-to-Africa, economic radicalism, and racial exclusiveness."  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.121.124.248 (talk) 18:59, 16 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Impact on 1993 mayoral race (unclear sentence) 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Yankel Rosenbaum photo  from geneology website
November 28, 1961 - August 20, 1991 (29) 
Gavin Cato photo  from cemetery website
24 Nov 1983 - 19 Aug 1991 (aged 7)
photo of father at grave
Anthony Graziosi
was born on November 7 1923. Anthony lived in Maspeth, New York 11378, USA. Anthony passed away on September 5 1991, at age 67.
MichelleInSanMarcos (talk) 00:53, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Links to photos of the deceased - in case relevant to add to article 

message: In the viewpoint section:
A number of studies[citation needed] focused on the allegation that law enforcement habitually favored Jews over African Americans. City Journal refuted the allegation.[6]
There are no cited studies (as noted), nor does the city journal refute the allegation using studies or evidence.  It is a commentary piece and should be referenced in the text as such.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shadybabs (talk • contribs) 13:33, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  No citation refutes the claim that law enforcment favored Jews over African Americans.