Talk:List of urban areas in the United Kingdom

message: If Manchester and Liverpool are treated as separate conurbations I can't see why the two cities are considered as the same metropoiltan area. This is surely a mistake even if it is possible to have a place that could be regarded as both. 
Tetron76 (talk) 17:11, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I have never heard anyone regard Liverpool and Manchester as the same place. There might be a RS which would allow the usage as a metropolitain area or may be I am simply ignorant on this area. But from wiki definition it describes an area that has to have a core. There is a clear geogrphic split in the regions, no common administrative region. There are also metropolitan universsities for both cities. As for St. Alban's there is certainly a case that it shouldn't be regarded as London either but relative size makes the Manchester-Liverpool much more questionable. 149.170.169.3 (talk) 18:12, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: If you look at the ONS map used as a link for metropolitain areas Manchester and Liverpool are clearly very distinct as not even a touching boundary. Source 5 does mention Liverpool-Manchester but this is likely a cyclical reference and should not really be used as at best it is secondary source which doesn't state its primary source. Sinc eit states that it uses encyclopaedia as ref it cannot be known whether this includes wikipedia itself.149.170.169.5 (talk) 18:40, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

text: On the ONS map of Travel to Work Areas the wolverhampton and Birmingham TTWAs have no common boundaries either but they are in the same urban area and hence same metropolitan area. That reference is really used in cases where the urban area is not mentioned in the other sources. Source 5 is used as a source on numerous other pages such as List of metropolitan areas in the Americas, List of metropolitan areas in Asia and Metropolitan areas of Mexico so I think it can be used as it's usage here is so widespread. Eopsid (talk) 19:24, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Before this page was changed to List urban areas of the UK from List of conurbations of the UK and thus excluding the Liverpool Manchester Conurbation. There are plenty of sources out there referencing to a Liverpool Manchester conurbation  samples found  from the AESOP-University of Manchester article here: https://www.escholar.manchester.ac.uk/uk-ac-man-scw:89997, and in this book here: Liverpool-Manchester conurbation and in this book on Metropolitan Governence and Spatial Planning here: Liverpool-Manchester conurbation and this book here: Liverpool-Manchester conurbation and from Invest in Sefton here: http://www.investsefton.com/investment/lifestyle/ and here liverpool-manchester conurbation jointly have a combined population of 5.56 million as the article was changed they don't fit current criteria and to previous editors who are not happy with those sticking to there guns in keeping the two cities separated Look at "conurbation which is a region comprising a number of cities, large towns, and other urban areas that, through population growth and physical expansion, have merged to form one continuous urban and industrially developed area" example of one link where Greater Manchester links directly with Liverpool continuously starting from Manchester city centre-Salford-Swinton-Walkden-Worsley-Astley-Tyldesley-Atherton-Leigh-Golborne-Ashton in Makerfield-Haydock-St Helens-Prescot-Huyton-Broadgreen-Wavertree-Edge Hill-Liverpool City Centre,there are others via Warrington. Which according to Merriam-Webster's Dictionary's definition of a conurbation " a large area consisting of cities or towns that have grown so that there is very little room between them" the urban link I have shown has no room between them consider a separate UK article based on the original conurbation article.--Navops47 (talk) 08:12, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Manchester - Liverpool a single metropolitain area 

message: Shouldn't that be on the list, According to the Camborne article it has a population of 59,100. 82.33.88.252 (talk) 01:11, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Camborne/Redruth 

message: Just in case anyone is interested. The ONS have estimates of the population in 2010 for most of the urban areas listed in this article.
See this spreadsheet .
Also on this page  the ONS talks about when they will release the data for the urban ares. They say that they have yet to finalise the date but it appears it will be some time before or during February 2013.
On a speculative (OR-y) note. The new data should show that Newport and Cwmbran are now one urban area and so are Basildon and Wickford because they are when looking at Google maps. Eopsid (talk) 19:07, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  2010 estimates and 2011 census data

message: This has been changed back a few times but the largest settlement in the Aldershot Urban Area is Farnborough, with a population of 57,147. 
Aldershot has a population of 33,840.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.13.26.73 (talk) 21:57, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: This entire article is about the Office of National Statistics (ONS) 2001 definition of urban areas and the population figures of 2001 from ONS. We can update this only when ONS issue new urban area data from the 2011 census; I don't know if they've done that yet. When they do, we can then update the entire article, but we can't guess the figures ourselves. For one thing it's likely some of the urban areas will be redefined at that point. The ONS 2001 figures are based on "urban areas" and conurbations within them, not towns, so the figure Eopsid quoted is for the Aldershot conurbation (Aldershot subdivision of Aldershot Urban Area) in 2001, not Aldershot town in 2011. -- Dr Greg  talk  18:51, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Farnborough/Aldershot Largest Settlement  

message: There is currently a discussion at Talk:Largest urban areas of the European Union about whether Demographia.com is a better source for UK Urban Area data than the Office for National Statistics.  19:10, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: No, you wrong. Discussion is about use of additional (national) sources in the article. For this changes must to be consensus. Subtropical-man (talk) 19:59, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  ONS as a poor source for Urban Area data 

message: I've arrived to Ramsgate by ferry from Oostende, Belgium quite a few times. I drove a small lorry to Weymouth (Bill of Portland) and exported (from a UK point of view) still alive crabs. I was sometimes difficult to adjust departure from Portland, to a perfect time arrival on the way back. Since I liked the area , I several times drove around while waiting for next the ferry. It semt to me that Ramsgate was builded together with Broadstairs, and Broadstairs with Margate. I've now learned that the Thanet area counts 135.000 inhabitants. So I'm surprised to not be able to find the Thanet area in the list.
( Totally beside the point, I think the welcoming road-sign at the ferries was nice - but in the phrase "Welcome to Ramsgate - please drive on left, I cannot help thinking that the word "please" in this context was a bit funny. ) Boeing720 (talk) 11:56, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: It's on the "List of most populous built-up areas in England and Wales" at no.56 after High Wycombe and before Accrington/Rossendale. Eopsid (talk) 16:43, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thanet 

message: Is it possible if we could have a quick top 5 list in the UK on the top of the page? I needed to know and had to scroll down and cross check each table. Thought it would be easier for people like myself to check. If so, that would be awesome. --Erzan (talk) 13:03, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  UK Top 5 

message: The final column on the England/Wales table points to the 2001 census but not to a source that sets out key differences from 2001 to 2011. You shouldn't have to wade through all the details of the two census in order to understand the differences - that would be OR or Synthesis. Is there a source clearly setting out the changes? Eldumpo (talk) 13:35, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: They have maps its very clear what the differences are if you compare two maps. Comparing them in this way is pretty much the same as a comparing the populations from each census. Eopsid (talk) 14:03, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The info in the column is taken from the 2011 census which itself includes a list of differences, not sure why the reference points to the 2001 census. WatcherZero (talk) 22:26, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  If the 2011 census clearly sets out the differences (I would suggest it should be a better reference than having to compare two different maps) can someone add a better link please. Eldumpo (talk) 07:46, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Notable changes column

message: Further to the above I have noticed that most of the table header columns point to a Nomis introduction page. Where is the actual data (including population) for all this information. I have had a quick look and couldn't find it. Please could someone post a direct link to the actual page(s)? Eldumpo (talk) 08:10, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I think this is it. I am not sure if the link'll work.  From the intro page you have to go to key statistics then choose a table, usual resident population is the main one used here, then wizard query and from there you can choose built-up areas and which ones you want data for. Eopsid (talk) 11:06, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  Is there not a better way of obtaining the data. It's surely Synthesis to have to do the above to extract each BUA. There must be summaries somewhere that give an easier access reference for people? Where is the link for determining what areas are included in each of the BUAs in the list. I did the above process for Leicester and there were 8 entries which have presumably all been added - but where are the reliable sources making that assumption. Finally if it is decided to keep the census as the basis of this article then shouldn't the article name be changed to BUAs to reflect the source. Sorry, I know lots of questions above but this article needs to be more transparent. Eldumpo (talk) 22:35, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The name probably should be changed to Built-up areas. They have built-up areas including subdivision which shows subdivisions of the BUAs you can use that for finding whats in each area as well as the maps. I dont see how its synthesis, its all from the same source. I think there might be summaries on the ONS site which links to this one but that shows less areas then is in the list here. Eopsid (talk) 15:01, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you dig out the ONS summaries. If they show only certain entries so be it, the picking of 100k is presumably arbitrary and not reflected by sources? This article would be perfect but is for the 2001 census. Must be a half-decent 2011 summary somewhere? Eldumpo (talk) 22:55, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Table headings references to Nomis

message: In the absence of a directly available source for this list (see above) I suggest we use an alternative to the census. City Population is I believe a reliable source, and it is noted that they only actually order the 13 UK Urban Areas greater than 500k, so there is an argument to only list those, but they do also list (but not order) areas greater than 100k. It is also noted that they combine the data as UK wide  which fits better with the title of this article. Having checked their Top 4 against our Top 4 the numbers are the same, which can give some confidence about the use of the source.  The use of City Population also ties well with WP:SECONDARY, although it need not be CP if anyone has another reliable source. Appropriate links to the actual census could still remain for completeness. Eldumpo (talk) 09:02, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I am shortly going to commence on making the above changes, but keeping the 100k cut-off. Eldumpo (talk) 14:17, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Suggested source for this article

message: Hi can someone explain a report published by the City Growth commission in February 2014 stating Greater Manchester Metro had a resident census population of 2,894,240 in 2011 calculated by using ONS defined built-up areas found here: http://www.citygrowthcommission.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Metro-Growth-February-2014.pdf and why are those figures not included if they don't belong here where do they belong ?--Navops47 (talk) 10:52, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Greater Manchester built up area 

message: Wigan is in the county of Greater Manchester. It is not in the Greater Manchester Built-up Area which is officially defined differently. The map :File:GMBUA2011.png shows what is and is not in the built-up area.
Wigan has its own Wigan Built-up Area which is currently number 43 in the list.-- Dr Greg  talk  21:01, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Wigan and Ashton actually falls within Liverpool..List of metropolitan areas in the United Kingdom.  Wigan is even served by the Liverpool Merseyrail metro. 2.216.88.102 (talk) 10:28, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Wrong on both counts WatcherZero (talk) 13:01, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wigan is not in GM Built-up Area 

message: An anonymous editor keeps seeking to remove any mention of Ellesmere Port from the ONS-defined Birkenhead urban area.  I keep reverting them. The issue is not whether Ellesmere Port is "really" part of the Birkenhead urban area or not.  The issue is whether ONS define it as part of the Birkenhead urban area - which they do.  The criteria for the ONS definition may seem strange, but they are logical - based on the distance between built-up areas, which can be treated as contiguous.  What should remain in this article is the definition of the Birkenhead urban area as it is defined by ONS, not what any individual thinks it should be.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:18, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Any data from OSN should dropped in favour of the EU EPSON. List of metropolitan areas in the United Kingdom. EPSON are impartial. 2.216.88.102 (talk) 10:30, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Birkenhead urban area 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: It hopelessly inaccurate. EPSON got it right. This article has Liverpool at over 800,000, omitting Birkenhead and Wallasy, on the opposite river bank, while Manchester is 2.6 million. These have it right List of metropolitan areas in the United Kingdom. 2.216.88.102 (talk) 10:24, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: You do know that under EPSON (which is outdated data, not updated since 2011 and due for next update in 2020) Liverpool is considered part of Manchester with a combined population of 5.6m right? They removed the pan-metropolitan entries from that wiki article. WatcherZero (talk) 13:00, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: This article should be deleted

message: The urban area has a population of 118,200 according to its own wiki page but is not in the list (where it would have been 66th). CALDlykLIJ (talk) 08:09, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I would have to say that the source for Chesters population (the Telegraph) is likely just not right and that is probably the answer. The Telegraph may be using some wider district figure which includes areas outside of the 'urban' area. Koncorde (talk) 13:03, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Accurate figure for the Urban Area is 92,919. Koncorde (talk) 13:19, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chester? 

message: NOMIS have fully repaired their system so that it gives the correct data for 'Greater Xxxxxx" Built-up Area (as well as the 1970s (?) boundaries Built-up Sub-area). (revised 20 July 2019):
# https://www.nomisweb.co.uk/  then section headed Local Area Report
# Name of urban area and then Search ... Example: Bristol
# Select the relevant built up area   ... Example: Built-up area (villages, towns or cities), ...Bristol (in South West Region) (caution! not "Built-up area sub divisions (town or city sub divisions)").
# Get the GSS E number from the response ... Example: "This report covers the characteristics of people and households in Bristol Built-up area in South West (GSS code E34004965)".
# Plug into :template:NOMIS2011 ... Example  produces  which reports "There were 617,280 usual residents as at Census day 2011".
# Wrap in ref tags and attach to figure in table.
Tested for Leicester and Bristol but I won't apply to the article to allow rather more time than I did last time for gremlins to emerge. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 16:04, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Revised instructions that I now believe to be correct

message: pretty obvious that this is one urban area. Pbell99 (talk) 17:55, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Not according to the Office for National Statistics, as of the 2011 census. The ONS is the authoritative source for that decision and they have a clear methodological basis to do so (not more than 200 metres of open space between developed land, not sure which way the M5 counts). Developments along the B4063 may be enough? We have to wait and see what they say when 2021 census detail is released. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 18:31, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gloucester and Cheltenham  

message: I've renamed the article, I thought it was too easy. Turns out I did a capital C in conurbation and the un-capped version is already a redirect, so sorry I don't know how to fix it. Chocolateediter (talk) 15:09, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: @Chocolateediter, you could request it at WP:RMT. DankJae 18:51, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  No worries. I think you could have reverted the move by just moving it back to the previous title and selecting the reason "Revert undiscussed move (WP:RMUM)". If you still want to move it to , you can open a requested move discussion. SilverLocust 💬 19:59, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I’ll leave another move for now I think a wider discussion is needed on UK geo, if I ever do it again I’ll see if I can mange it next time. Thank you. Chocolateediter (talk) 20:09, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article rename