Talk:Abram Petrovich Gannibal

message: This needs a merge with Ibrahim Petrovich Gannibal. Uppland 07:05, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge

message: The article claims that the city was founded by Ibrahim's son, Ivan, but Kherson says it was founded by Potemkin.
Yom 03:38, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradiction with [[Kherson]] 

message: I know that in Russian the Latin letter "H" is frequently replaced by "Γ". However shouldn't the main spelling be "Hannibal"? This would be consistent for instance with the spelling of the name Herzen and not "Gerzen". Tsf 19:05, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think he is traditionally known by "Gannibal" because he himself (supposedly) used the "G" form when he was living in Paris.  But most contemporary accounts of his life use the "G" spelling, so it should probably be used here for consistency. Legis 13:16, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name transliteration 

message: The correct name of Gannibal is Abram not Ibrahim. Noirceuil 08:10, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name 

message: This article seems to depend heavily on one or two books written recently to the exclusion of the older  documents written by people close to Pushkin. Rather than devoting huge sections to speculations the writer of article should balance the newer materials(if any) against the older hypotheses.What recent findings( if any) cast doubt on the veracity of the older documents and manuscripts should also be included. Any speculations should be put as such and the historical gaps should be reported as historical gaps. I also know that FVMMO inscribed on Gannibal's crest have been given a meaning other than the "homeland" which has been suggested by the article. The same sultan who suggested that meaning also gave a different meaning to another visitor. It has also been seen as an acronym for "Fortuna Vitam Meam Mutavit Oppido" Latin for "fortune has changed my life in the city". While so much remains to be known for sure-it may never be known- it is our duty as editors to point out facts as facts and speculations as speculations. By the way where is Logo in Ethiopia or Eritrea? I have worked around that area and i don't remember a town by that name.
Ironinmohscale 11:33, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Revisionist History

message: He was actually born in northern Cameroon in a city called Logone. This fact is pretty well established, see http://gnammankou.com/thetimes.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.105.144.120 (talk) 22:26, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Birthplace

message: The qualification that he was Ethiopian is a problem. At the time that he was taken, the Ethiopians (those south of the Mereb) lacked control of the region. Rather, the region, was autonomous under the "Lord of the Sea." If the descriptor "Eritrean" is to be removed i believe it would also be appropriate to remove the "Ethiopian" description. --Merhawie (talk) 21:00, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There was no country by the name Eritrea then. Those who live in present day Eritrea have immigrated to that area from northern Ethiopia hundreds of years ago. I see people like you out in force to invent some history for yourselves.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eldad8 (talk • contribs) 22:30, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Eritrean / Ethiopian

message: I want to thank Tmcbride1 for recent contributions. It may require the help of others to continue this trend. Feedback? Historian 03:30, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Expansion and improvement

message: In the section "Popular culture" we can read: As new information emerges about the origins of Gannibal, both Gannibal and Pushkin have become popular figures in Gannibal’s native Cameroon. Are there sources that claim that Gannibal was from today's Cameroon? Dantadd (talk) 13:38, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Cameroon

message: Why is there only slavery links int he "See Also" ?
Considering he was a noble of sort as child, taken hostage/enslaved only to be freed/ransomed by a Russian noble shortly thereafter ?
As was mentioned, there was no "slavery" (as known in the West) in Russian Empire of the time.46.39.169.168 (talk) 20:14, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: See also - slavery links

message: I have restored what is widely acclaimed as Gannibal's portrait. This is the version on Russian Wiki.DanJazzy (talk) 17:54, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Every source on the topic says that that photo is mis-cited, it is a portrait of General Ivan Ivanovich Möller-Sakomelsky. Just because a lot of people are wrong about the same thing doesn't make it right. The description of the file itself explains everything. Русский: Портрет, некоторыми[1] исследователями атрибутированный, как портрет Абрама Петровича Ганнибала. По другим исследованиям это портрет И. И. Меллер-Закомельского. Окончательного варианта атрибуции нет. См. страницу обсуждения.English: A portrait traditionally belived to be of Abram Petrovich Gannibal. According to research by Natalya Teletova[2] the painting is not of Gannibal. According to her, it shows a general Meller-Zakomelski. The order he is wearing was created after the death of Abram Gannibal. This is taken directly from the file source:https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Meller-Zakomelski.jpg JesseRafe (talk) 19:33, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

text: Because she was the one who reversed the others' claims. Name one "scholar" who says she's wrong then. The proof is in the medal he's wearing which is for an order named after General Gannibal. Decades of identification are hard to undo, especially when people like you refuse reason. The name of the file is Meller-Zakomelski.jpg - why would it not be him? JesseRafe (talk) 20:50, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

text: Name. A. Single. One. -- Do you not get it? For decades it was labeled as Gannibal, but by lazy people misreading that the only place his name shows up is on the medal for the order named after Gannibal. There is no evidence at all suggesting this painting is of him. At all. Except decades of mistakes. I know what you are trying to do about scientific consensus, but this is not a science issue or peer-reviewed blah blah blah, this is simply one error that lots of people had been making and it has since been identified and corrected. People like you means people who blindly do what they have been told because that's what those who have done before think. Since someone in 1870 made a mistake in identifying this portrait, people like you have been assuming they are right every since. It is simply not the case. Same a single "scholar" you are so found of who has identified Meller-Sakomelski as Gannibal. JesseRafe (talk) 07:37, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

text: Absolutely incredible. You have made nothing but strawman arguments here. The principle of peer-reviewed scientific consensus is completely irrelevant to this discussion. It was never done to support the contention that the portrait of General Moeller-Sakomelski wearing a medal for an Order named after General Gannibal, but you blindly support that. This was a mistake, not the result of scientific consensus. It is not terribly important in the goings-on of the world and thus the fact that only one authority on the subject has pointed out the error is enough. Any information you have that supports it being Gannibal rather than S-M that is either from before Teletova's research or does not directly refute it is irrelevant and has been superseded. My tone was not hostile in the least but a response in kind to yours. And yes, it was factual. Relying on the decades-old mistakes of others rather than investigating the matter yourself or applying a dozen brain cells to a modicum of common sense is pretty much the definition of "lazy". JesseRafe (talk) 19:00, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gannibal's portrait  

message: The portrait discussed here is clearly of a black man. It is clearly of someone rich and in uniform. Muller-Zakomelsky was white and no 'darkening over time' makes hair that is kinky and black. If there was more than one man who was black perhaps it is a portrait of him. Otherwise this is ridiculous. Gannibal who chose his own name was the first engineer in Russia. He has the wrong medal on him? Well that doesn't make him white nor a portrait thinning his nose to fit in.
2601:C4:C300:5560:0:0:0:5 (talk) 12:52, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Gannibal was the first black engineer in Russia, but definitely not "the first engineer" in the history of that country. Eriba-Marduk (talk) 15:23, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: IP, are you talking about this image? Plenty of "white" people have skin that dark. Also, this is a freaking painting, not a photograph. And your assertion that white people don't have black hair? Are you kidding me??? Further, this is absolutely not "kinky" hair, but straight hair with curls at the bottom. Have you seen no other depictions of aristocracy of this era? The all wore their hair or their wigs in this fashion. So are you acknowledging that "darkening over time" happened to his skin, but contesting that would make his hair "kinky and black"? Because it's not the former and the latter is irrelevant. Everything else you said is a platitude, a non sequitur, or false. It doesn't contribute to the discussion in improving the article or attributing the appropriate image. JesseRafe (talk) 16:24, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Portrait claimed to be a darkened  

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: * A historical biography by Gannibal's son-in-law, Rotkirkh, was largely responsible for the myth, propagated by some historians, that Gannibal was born in Cameroon. Recent research has established that the general was born in Central Africa, in an area bordering Lake Chad in present-day Cameroon.
This makes no sense to me. First we say the Cameroon thing is a myth, and then we say it's true after all. So is the myth no longer a myth? --  Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 10:40, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Cameroon #2

message: Some old history that used to be at this article title is now at Talk:Abram Petrovich Gannibal/Old history. Graham87 01:52, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Old page history 

message: There is no evidence other than prejudice that Gannibal was enslaved. He was kidnapped. There is no evidence that he was 'freed' though he was adopted. Gannibal is never referred to as a former slave. Kidnapping was rife during this time. Usually for a ransom. Napata102 (talk) 14:10, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  kidnapping