Talk:Kenjutsu

message: to Quote:
Kenjutsu is the core means by which koryū train their students to employ the Japanese swords against a variety of classical weapons, while indoctrinating the student in the combative mindset of the school. Therefore, kenjutsu can be seen as an integral aspect of all classical Japanese sword school curricula.
This appears to be original research, and be written from a non-neutral point of view, e.g. "kenjutsu can be seen as an integral aspect of all classical Japanese sword school curricula."
to Quote:
Today most koryū schools continue to employ kenjutsu as part of their curriculum.
Given the number of koryū focused on unarmed combat a citation would be good here. I'll see if I can find one... if not...
I also think this is not NPOV and looks a bit original to me:
"Many other schools can legitimately trace their history from the founder dating back to the 14th century, such as Maniwa Nen-ryū (founded: 1368) or Tatsumi-ryū (founded: Eishō era 1504-1521) or Kashima Shin-ryū (founded: ca. 1450).''
I don't doubt that they do trace their founding back to these dates but it would be much nicer to have a citation to a good source, and loose the 'legitimately' as this sounds like non-NPOV.StringTokeniser (talk) 20:12, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  More Cleanup I'd Like to Try 

message: There appears to be some serious differences of usage in the term Kenjutsu -for example some Kenjutsu schools include Iai techniques, and the term seems to be fairly generally used for Japanese killing arts using the sword. For example in 'Looking at a Far Mountain'  the translation given is 'Killing Art, with sword', Ozawa describes it as 'the art of the sword'. There is some interesting discussion here:
http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3490&page=1
The other major usage seems to be to distinguish the old Kenjutsu koryū from modern 'Do' styles (Kendo & Iaido). I think that describing both usages in the article would be good - possibly a 'modern Kenjutsu' section to discuss modern martial arts which self describe as Kenjutsu, as well as links to the Kenjutsu Koryu . A section on the origins of Kendo Kata in the specific Kenjutsu Koryu might be interesting? StringTokeniser (talk) 22:21, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kenjutsu as a General Term 

message: I think this article would be improved by a history section giving an overview of when the different schools of Kenjutsu developed historically? Any have an opinion on this? I think the article as it stands is to technical - since Kenjutsu is a term used to grouping various diverse schools, more emphasis on the development of the schools and less on the technical nature of Kenjutsu and the differences with Iaido/Iaijutsu may help this? And more references :-) StringTokeniser (talk) 21:28, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Section? 

message: I rewrote the article, because I found it to contain misunderstandings. Habj 22:58 Mar 26, 2003 (UTC)
According to a respected Japanese acquaintance with whom I discussed the matter recently, the art known as kenjutsu has not existed since its formal abolition in the late nineteenth century, and anyone who claims to practice it today is no more practicing kenjutsu than a modern Wiccan is following the ancient pagan religion -- that is to say, what they are doing should not be mistaken for an ancient tradition, because in practice it is no more than a reconstruction based on surviving descriptions.  Note that this is entirely separate from any consideration of whether the practice is "good" or "bad"; I do not intend to insult Wiccans or kenjutsuka, merely to say that, as I understand it, the schools they follow are often mistaken for things they are not.  If the foregoing is true, it should be incorporated into the article; if it isn't, this comment should probably be removed.  I leave it to those who have more knowledge than my mere hearsay to judge.
:Your acquintance seems confused. Kenjutsu is a Japanese word for "sword technique", with emphasis on using the Japanese sword in distinctively Japanese manner. It is not something that can be "formally abolished". Maybe you mean the abolishment of samurai as a sosial class in 1877? The kenjutsu styles extant today (there are several dozens) did not "reconstruct" anything (well, some might have done little bit of that also) but are based on unbroken instructor lineages. Beware, charlatans abound in kenjutsu also, see McDojo. Given that maybe less than one percent of Japanese people alive today even know that they country's premodern combatative traditions have ever existed (much less know anything about their characteristics), I wouldn't change this article based on your vague comment. After all, there are reliable English language sources readily available. jni 12:35, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rewritten 

message: Wikipedia:List_of_Wikipedians_by_martial_art
I think jni has a point here, kenjutsu is merely an arbitary label for something people do. There are many styles that were lost during the Meiji Restoration and the few that have survived to this day have undoubtedly changed. Although there are many people who may claim to teach "traditional" martial arts, the art that they teach will not be the same as it was 100 years ago, things change, there is no doubt about it.
A large clue to this change is in the name itself: Ken-jutsu as I understand it roughly translates as "technique of the sword", over time this was refined by its practitioners into Ken-do "way of the sword". The "do" suffix seems to indicate this new art being more than just a set of instructions on how to use a sword in combat, it became a way of life. Instead of learning the techniques like you would subjects at school, the practitioner devoted his whole life to trying to understand the greater meaning of the art taking it to almost a spiritual level. As we can see, there is not a lot left in this spiritual aspect in modern Kendo.
As for the point of merging kenjutsu with Japanese swordsmanship, I think they should stay separate as the article on kenjutsu should discribe the art and techniques where as Japanese swordsmanship should describe the behaviour of the swordsmen themselves.
:I heavily disagree. Kenjutsu being refined into Kendo is a totally different subject, one that concerns Kendo itself and the evolution of it from a killing art into a sporting art. I'm sure that Kenjutsu as a killing art is still taught in some places, albeit probably hard to find. Kendo was created within schools to allow competitions and sporting, as perhaps iaijutsu might have gained the name iaido when the killing intent of the drawing sword was lost.
:Also...as a kenshi who practices Kendo, I would say that the spiritual aspect is definitely still within the sport. That's an entirely different subject, however.
:As for your point about kenjutsu and behavior of swordsmen...there are two different articles. Ever heard of Bushido? Kishyotai 11:30, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia:List_of_Wikipedians_by_martial_art add yourself! 

message: Hello, 203.51.231.180! I noticed your edit on the above topic, but I didn't quite agree with it, so I edited it back (and tried to improve the original sentence).
It seems to me that the way you left the sentence, it was a little hard to understand. Would you like to discuss that? Claus Aranha 05:07, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kendo AND Iaido or Kendo OR Iaido 

message: May I inquire the concensus for the merge template being placed on this article..? The article is exceptionally refernced and elaborated, and like Iaido, it a distinct and seperate art concerning the usage of the sword. If there are no objections, I request the template be removed. -ZeroTalk 18:45, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See the current discussion on Talk:Japanese swordsmanship. I'm personally in agreement with you. --Kyle Davis 19:17, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge 

message: This article contains a lot of technical information and little explanation; it seems very like a subsection of a larger article. I've added a cleanup tag to indicate that the text does not currently read like a full article in itself although it is infomative enough. Chris Cunningham 09:49, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Style commentary 

message: Hi, I remember there was an art which I believe primarily had 3 steps in which a battle was fought with a sword. One of those steps was the art of removing the blood from the sword. Does anyone know which art I am talking about? Mallerd 13:58, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey, I finally found it: Iaidō Mallerd (talk) 11:20, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Art 

message: What do those two gaijin know about kenjutsu? 70.89.165.91 (talk) 19:27, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Martial arts isn't bound by race. 97.118.207.2 (talk) 21:50, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  The picture 

message: I totally agree with you (the guy who posted above me) there. I have to be honest, but the pictures don't really go with the feel, especially the blue-haired guy. Don't mean to be racist there. It just doesn't seem, well, proper? I'd rather see a Japanese do that stuff.
I recommend the usage of photos from this user in Flickr, just get his/her permission: http://flickr.com/photos/7762281@N08/
Silenthill_addict (talk) 22:30, 08 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I completely agree, but in my book, the picture of the blue-haired guy is better than no picture.  I don't care that the guy's not Japanese, but the blue hair screams "poser."  Please replace it, though if you can find something else. Bradford44 (talk) 21:06, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: For anybody interested, the hair was dyed blue to raise money for cancer. Much like the typical head-shave event, but gets a better turnout. 68.151.251.42 (talk) 20:29, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

text: Kenjutsu unlike kendo is not well organized. So it's hard to say what's "correct" and "incorrect". 97.118.207.2 (talk) 21:51, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recommendation with the picture 

message: At this moment one can read: "The modern styles of kendo and iaido that were established the 20th century included kenjutsu in their curriculum too." Maybe this information is right but the modern kendo do not have documentation on this kenjutsu is from the feudal era of Japan (prior to 1868). Development of "kenjutsu" in the modern time of Japan (after the Meiji Restoration in 1868) most be modern development within "kenjutsu". Therefore the sentence above must be changed to: "The modern styles of kendo and iaido that were established the 20th century included modern form of kenjutsu in their curriculum too." - Kontoreg (talk) 12:31, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kenjutsu in the modern Kendo 

message: Hi,
it strikes me (ha) as a little odd to give the names of three classical schools, and then use a fourth one as an example of the ancestor-descendant relation. Is it possible to either use one of the three listed, or include the one used (ono ha Itto ryu) in the list?
T
2001:4610:A:5E:0:0:0:1414 (talk) 18:39, 21 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  A little weird discontinuity 

message: I removed the entire section for two reasons.  The main one being that it is direct copy of a copyrighted article (see http://www.liquisearch.com/kenjutsu/techniques_and_styles/techniques) and the reference given at the end of it does not free up the obligation.  The second is that wikipedia is not a how to manual which is how this section came across.Peter Rehse (talk) 09:07, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Techniques section

message: This section states that sparring with shinai as we know it in modern kendo began in the 19th century, whereas The History of Kendo as quoted in the kendo article, gives the beginning as around 1700. At any rate, should the kenjutsu article not refer to the kendo article anyway, to save duplication and contradiction? 
:14:57, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edo period 

message: Dfg 79.69.57.93 (talk) 23:42, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  History