Talk:Dharma Initiative/Archive 1

message: Quite a bit of the article is speculation. The theories are more appropriate to fan pages than an entry here. Please snip down to the actual story as presented thus far. LeFlyman 19:27, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Speculative Materials

message: For whomever is confused, the underground structure is not called "The Hatch" -- a hatch is a door, which was what Locke and Boone initially discovered. The facility should properly called a bunker or station (as per the orientation film). LeFlyman 21:43, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Naming conventions

message: Someone added in a new logo which I've removed, from a supposedly "official" site, Megalottojackpot.com. This is not an ABC Television site (contrary to the link at the bottom), but a fan site/hoax, registered to the same person who runs MillionairePlayboy.com The origin of the "cat bird on a stick" Dharma logo is in the forums there. Sorry to be a party pooper. LeFlyman 17:43, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, that would have been me. I really thought it was an official site... :-(  Tomcage9 20:56, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: No worries; the creator of that site clearly intended that it look "official"-- as made obvious by placing a link to ABC's Terms of Service at the bottom. I just wanted to make sure that someone else didn't come along and add it back in later :) LeFlyman 03:32, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Fake "Dharma" Logos

message: *Whoever added this has struck another intersting point. 108 mintute rollover; 540 day stays. Facinating. -Litefantastic 20:22, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  540 = 108 * 5 

message: The DeGroots look like the fat bearded guy and the blonde woman who threw the Molotov on the boat. It could be just me or is there some sort of connection? One more thing, the profile for Libby says her name is Libby DeGroot. Any connections there? Someone help me out. --Ultrasound 09:28, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone put her last name as DeGroot in her wiki. Misunderstanding. Sorry. --Ultrasound 21:27, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The DeGroots 

message: I admit that the question immeadiately above is just speculation, but it's somewhat verifiable. Why not dredge up some screenshots of the boat, and we'll have a look-see. -Litefantastic 01:39, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: DeGroot of DeProblem

message: Someone has listed the arrow station as "presumably being the zoology station". There is nothing to back this up that has aired on the show OR been revealed elsewhere by an official source, so I am deleting this statement from the caption.
*Yes, that would be this, probably. -Litefantastic 00:16, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Speculative Info on Dharma Logo Caption

message: An interesting thing is this. Admittedly, it's just a forum post, the only method of information in the world with a lower fact content to nonsense ratio than talking to the guy next to you in a bar, but still. All I'll say is they look a heck of a lot more convincing than that 'catbird' logo that's bouncing around. -Litefantastic 23:39, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Dharma logos

message: This section was removed; while interesting information, it has nothing to do with "The Dharma Initiative":
Swans are revered in many religions and cultures, especially Hinduism. The Sanskrit word for swan is hamsa or hansa, and it is the vehicle of many deities like the goddess Saraswati. It is mentioned several times in the Vedic literature, and some swans have also been said to have the knowledge of the Supreme Being Brahman. They are said to reside in the summers in the Manasarovar lake and migrate to Indian lakes for the winter, eat pearls, and separate milk from water in a mixture of both. Hindu iconography typically shows the Mute Swan. It is wrongly supposed by many Historians that the word hamsa only means a goose, since today swans are no more found in India, not even in most zoos. However, ornithological checklists like this clearly classify several species of swans as vagrant birds in India.
—LeFlyman 20:40, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed from article

message: I was troubled by the redundancy and confusing organization in this article so I decided to have a go at restructuring it. The basic revisions are:
* Grouping information into [Dharma Initiative] History and Purpose, Station Three, Other Stations, and Trivia.
* Eliminating the use of sub-subheads, e.g. “The Film,” and “Missing Pieces.” Feel free to reinstate these if they would help in the “Station Three” section.
* Eliminating “The Film’s Assumptions.” The jobs and the code might have been explicitly stated in the original film, but lost when the film was damaged. In any case, the assumptions don’t seem necessary to mention in the article.
* Eliminating “Dharma Initiative Employees” section. This is information adequately covered elsewhere in the article.
* Moving number commentaries and information on Candle’s false arm to Trivia.
* Adding information on “Quaratnine” messages and quasi-speculation on the Rousseau bunker (please remove if it is inappropriate.)
I tweaked the grammar here and there, but kept the same basic content.
I leave it to the earlier architects of this article to revert to an earlier draft if they feel the revision is presumptuous or insufficient.
T McAy, 2:48 24 December 2005
* I appreciate the effort at reorganization. Some of the additions are problematic, however. The changes introduce quite a bit of Original Research. A good rule of thumb is if "speculation" is associated with whatever is to be included, it probably shouldn't be here.  —LeFlyman 08:38, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Reorganization

message: I again need to repeat the mantra that Wikipedia is not the place to try out your personal theories. The following section of pure, Original Research (does anyone even read this policy?), apart from its grammatical and spelling challenges, is completely inappropriate to Wikipedia. Save it for fan site forums and do not re-insert it here.—LeFlyman 08:19, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[WP:NOR|Original Research]] "Theories"

message: Noticed this hasn't been updated to include a reference to the missing splice found by Eko in the bible, and put back into the film by Locke. Someone has done a great job with the transcript, and would be good to have this included there too. I would have a go at updating myself, but I wouldn't do it justice.
--139.149.1.211 10:27, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed the transcript because it is a copyright violation. Jtrost (T | C | #) 18:02, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Missing splice

message: That picture is not an adequate translation.  It does not explain how to come from the glyphs, which presumably are phonetic for Egyptian words, to English, nor does it explain what exactly "caus. die" is supposed to mean.
:Here are some links to explanations of the translation:  
:I.e. it can pretty solidly be translated (taking into account the causative form) as to make (someone) die; Pronunciation would be something like SWDA (SeWeDA ?)
:--Samwz 17:03, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Translated Timer

message: :"Other dharma bunkers of unknown use bear the symbols of a seashell and the ankh."
Has this been seen on-screen? If not, this reference must go... Radagast 15:22, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Other bunkers?

message: *should we add http://thedharmainitiative.org/ as the new link of Official Dharma Initiative Website?And should we updated the url of the Orientation Film of The Swan to http://thedharmainitiative.org/orientation ? And, help would be welcomed concerning the LOGIN feature of this Dharma site. Darth Kevinmhk 11:14, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Web / Video Link 

message: I think we should just have a listing of occurences of the Dharma Logo all in one place or not at all. It doesn't belong in the Trivia section because they are story elements.  Anyone thinking along the same lines?
MrMorgan 15:37, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Occurences of the Dharma Logo 

message: Since DHARMA is now confirmed to be an acronym, it should be written in capitals (according to the article on acronyms). This hopefully will also keep reader's minds from spinning in the wrong direction, since the acronym means that DHARMA has a distinct meaning which is not that of Dharma. Arru 09:44, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Acronrym capitalization 

message: I know this has been confirmed to be an acronym, but I think something has been ignored here. In my studies of Eastern religions, "dharma" is most frequently translated as "duty." specifically in Hinduism, Dharma is the concept of caste duty, or the role that one is supposed to fufill during his life in hopes of improving his standing in the world for the next life, through the cycle of death and rebirth called Samsara. The ultimate goal is to be released from this cycle, and Hindu philosophy states that the best way to be released is to practice one's duty. 
Taken in this sense, it seems interesting that the contact we have with the DHARMA initiative is with individuals who are charged with the duty of pushing a button, in order to be released from the endless countdown cycle they are stuck in.
Just a thought that hasn't been brought up... this translation should be noted somewhere. I like acronyms because they are puzzles, and I'll be back shortly with some ideas about what the acronym stands for...
Tuna (68.82.230.65)
*I agree, would you please edit this dharma translation in. It is apparently an acronym, but it is also quite obviously chosen (as acronyms often are) to also relate to the word dharma. Arru 19:25, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  translations of "dharma" 

message: There are multiple Latin phrases on the wall. Some include;  
*Sursum Corda - meaning Lift up your hearts; written three times above The Staff hatch.  
*Cogito ergo doleo - meaning I think therefore I suffer; written under The Flame hatch.
*Liberte te ex infernus - meaning Free you from the fire or also Save yourself from hell; written above CV III.
*Malum consilium quod mutari non potest - meaning It's a bad plan that can't be changed.
*Aegrescit medendo - meaning The disease worsens with the treatment.
*Credo nos influctu eodem esse - meaning I think we are on the same wavelength.
Additonal untranslated latin phrases on the map: 
*Nil actum reputa si quid superest agendum
*Aeg exit montendo (?)
*Hic sunt dracones
*Ut sit magna, tamen certe lenta ira decorum est
*Liberte te ex inferus
----
*Nil actum reputa si quid superest agendum = Don’t consider that anything has been done if anything is left to be done
*Aeg exit montendo (?) = Aeg = sick/ill exit = just what you think it means (while exitus anyway... exitium means destruction I think)... I've never seen montendo before.
*Hic sunt dracones = Here be Dragons, appeared on ancient maps of the world.
*I think you mean "Ut sit magna, tamen certe lenta ira deorum est = The wrath of the gods may be great, but it certainly is slow.
*Liberte te ex inferus roughly translated would be free youself from below or save yourself from hell (disclaimer, I last had Latin about 15 years ago).  Maybe a reference to the "Monster"?
--Isotope23 21:35, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is mentioned: In "Lockdown," the blast doors drop after the loudspeaker counts down to zero. A blacklight turns on and a drawing is revealed in fluorescent paint on the door that has pinned Locke to the ground. Jtrost (T | C | #) 21:22, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, the biggest problem is that it is another pointless fork of info for Lost that would be better centrally collected, but whatever...  I'll just vote merge on the AfD.--Isotope23 21:42, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

text: The point of this article seems to be to collect various bits of information about the Dharma initiaitive and the hatches connected to it into one place. I think that verifiable details of the map would be relevent. Blade 23:36, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Would anyone mind if I pasted the Latin phrases and their translations into the subsection on the map? They seem relevent. -Litefantastic 16:41, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

text: As Isotope23 said, the problem is that there is an entire page on the map, the existence of which (the page) is a great debate. Putting relevant info here would be a step in centralizing coverage on the map. Staying at its own page it will remain still more speculative than if put before sceptic eyes here. Arru 22:00, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Material from [[Ultraviolet map]]