Talk:Alice Starmore

message: An editor has removed two paragraphs of 'Reception' that are properly cited and which serve to establish the notability of the article. I am a bit bemused by this as they seem to be good solid materials:
: ==Reception==
: Adrienne Martini describes one of Starmore's Fair Isle patterns as "famously difficult".Martini, Adrienne. Sweater Quest: My Year of Knitting Dangerously, Free Press, 2010Reviewed in LibraryJournal.com. Retrieved 20 July 2012.
: Sarah E. White, on About.com, writes that Starmore's Book of Fair Isle Knitting "makes my head hurt in a good way."
What do other people think on this? BTW the same editor has removed other materials also. I've restored the image as it seems highly relevant, illustrating nicely Starmore's work and reason for notability. Chiswick Chap (talk) 09:40, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I've reverted the page based on the fact that Millstonelane removed his own new references which he added, making his contributions constitute only removing information without replacing it with new informataion. — JJJ (say hello) 14:24, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reception section of article - can we restore it? 

message: If Martini is such an “expert” with "credentials" then why is her book so factually incorrect? Her book is an unreliable source on many levels. She states, both in the text and on the cover, that AS is “reclusive”. She also states in a promotional video that AS is “some kinda recluse” and cites the fact that AS lives on a Scottish island as proof of this. These statements display a profound (and laughable) lack of knowledge of both AS and Scottish geography, and prove that she did no meaningful research at all. AS does indeed still reside on the island she was born on, along with 22,000 other people, and that island is just one hour by plane away from Glasgow and two hours away from London. If Martini had even done a bare minimum of research then she would have known that AS has based her long career on constant public speaking. Martini’s statement is demonstrably false (and, as with the Library Journal statement, also defamatory and possibly libellous), which is one of the reasons why I removed the reference to her book. Another compelling reason is Martini’s constant theme, based on no offered evidence, that AS is dangerously fond of taking legal action. As a highly successful designer, it is probable that AS has had to have C&D notices issued on her behalf (it goes with the territory if you have talent), but I believe I am correct in saying that she has never instigated actual court proceedings against anyone, anywhere. Martini does not cite any such court cases. References to AS in her book are based on hearsay, gossip and speculation rather than any real research. The book has no place in any serious reference that purports to be factual.
My interest in this particular subject is backed by my direct knowledge of it, as I have seen, heard and enjoyed AS speaking on five occasions:
(1)  13th May 2008, Stornoway. Scottish Government Public Enquiry Reference Number IEC/3/134 into the proposed Muaitheabhal Windfarm. She delivered detailed evidence to a packed enquiry room on the likely social and environmental effects of the proposed scheme.
(2)  11th September 2009, Royal Horticultural Halls, London. I-Knit event. A very lively knitting lecture, plus Q&A.
(3)  October 2009, Strathpeffer Pavilion, Ross & Cromarty, RSPB event. An inspiring talk on reconnecting people with the natural world.
(4)  10th September 2010, Royal Horticultural Halls, London. I-Knit event. Another lively lecture and Q&A session.
(5)  3rd July 2011, BBC Television’s “Coast” programme, broadcast nationally on BBC2. Interviewed by Nick Crane on the subject of natural dyeing.
These are the occasions on which I have personally witnessed AS’s skills as a witty, passionate and engaging public speaker with a deep knowledge of her subject matter. There are many more such occasions that I have not attended but have read reports of. Most recently for example, Vogue Knitting Live, New York City, last January; Interweave Knitting Lab, San Mateo CA November 2011. Over the course of the past 30 years, thousands of people in lectures and workshops across the world must have shared my experience of AS as an expert communicator, and not the social inadequate that Martini portrays. What Martini and the Library Journal state about AS’s reclusive and withdrawn character is the diametric opposite of the truth and constitutes a direct, unfounded attack on what the woman actually is and does. Such attacks have no place on Wikipedia, or any other pages, and I believe that I am fully justified in removing them in accordance with Wikipedia’s instructions regarding biographies of living persons: do not place material that is not true.Millstonelane (talk) 23:26, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  Millstonelane, what you say may well be true, but the whole of what you have stated above, both about Martini and about Starmore is simply not relevant to the article.
1: on Martini) The claims about Martini's book are not relevant here because we are not restating them, nor quoting them, nor relying on them. Indeed we are not asserting that Martini is an "expert", simply that she claims that she has heard that the patterns are hard to knit.  The only statement attributed to Martini that is made in the article is "famously difficult" which is certainly not libellous. You have no justification for removing something which is not an attack and which is correctly cited, on the spurious grounds that other claims are false.
2: on Starmore) Whatever personal experience you may have of Starmore, on however many occasions, is not relevant here. (See WP:Verifiability.) We have an article on Starmore because there is verifiable published evidence of her notability. There is nothing in this article that makes any negative claim or suggestion about Starmore, and I for one would remove any such unsubstantiated claim immediately.
To avoid an edit war, I would ask you please not to make any further edits to the article until this matter is resolved. Doing so would likely constitute disruptive behaviour. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:37, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Martini an "expert"?

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130412055220/http://www.yarnsofitaly.com/blogs/book-pattern-reviews/5902569-alice-starmores-book-of-fair-isle-knitting to http://www.yarnsofitaly.com/blogs/book-pattern-reviews/5902569-alice-starmores-book-of-fair-isle-knitting
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121023025500/http://www.americanaexchange.com/AE/AEMonthly/AEMonthlySingleArticle.aspx?ArticleID=1354&Month=10&Year=2012&Page=1 to http://www.americanaexchange.com/AE/AEMonthly/AEMonthlySingleArticle.aspx?ArticleID=1354&Month=10&Year=2012&Page=1
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060506160428/http://www.virtualyarns.com/support/alice.asp to http://www.virtualyarns.com/support/alice.asp
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thread_title:  External links modified