Talk:John E. Sarno

message: I removed some copyright violations that were on this page.  The text was directly copied from http://www.healingbackpain.com/treatment.html, which contains the same misspellings as this article had (such as "ondisorders", "onproviding", and "betweenemotions").
If the page is being edited by the good Doctor, please note that information that is clearly autobiographical or that reads like an ad is generally looked down on.  --Interiot 20:05, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: I've updated the biography to include the fact that Sarno's method is not clinically tested, despite the fact that much anecdotal evidence sounds positive.  I believe this accurately reflects that many success stories are floating on the web (googling and reading amazon's readers' comments on his books will lead you to them), but that nevertheless Sarno has not tested his method clinically (at least, the references make no mention of a clinical trial and in fact suggest none was performed - of course it's possible such a trial was performed but that the results were not released to the public or are simply hard to find).  Eamon Nerbonne 15:07, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Eamon,  Generally, I like the content of the changes you have made so far.  Now I intend to add a citation which addresses the difficulty of doing a "properly controlled clinical trial" with the diagnosis of a psychosomatic disorder which requires acceptance by the patient in order for the treatment to succeed.  Sadly, Dr. Sarno's mindbody treatments only work with patients who can accept the possibility that their very real pain might be emotionally or psychologically caused.  For these, his success rate is very high.  For those who cannot accept this possibility, and many fall into this category, the painful symptoms will continue.  Most of his patients have had a tragic and disabling journey though the conventional medical system with poor results, before finding Dr. Sarno, and by then, many are ready to accept such a diagnosis, as all the conventional ones have failed. Ralphyde 18:49, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I still disagree with the contents, but the way it is put now is a lot more neutral. The reference to his own book to prove that it is hard to have a clinical trial is ridiculous, so I've made it neutral by saying it is the book who mentions it. I still don't see why references to an alternative commercial medical centre would improve anything in this article. Anoko moonlight 01:00, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The reference was to a totally different author, who had made a very good point regarding the difficulty of having a "properly controlled clinical trial" with a psychosomatic diagnosis.  The fact that it was published in a book for which Dr. Sarno is the major author, as a separate chapter does not invalidate the very illustrative and cogent point made by Dr. Leonard-Segal in her separate chapter.  She is also a professor of medicine, and an experienced clinical physician in her own right.  And the point she makes is certainly valid, regardless of where it is published.  Ralphyde 03:50, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Stop pressing undo everytime I improve the article. Wikipedia is NOT for promoting new information, the references are highly controversial. You may be convinced that he is brilliant, I'm not, the current evidence does not, other people who wrote above clearly do think so as well. Anoko moonlight 14:36, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Anoko, you are obviously a POV warrior who has a bias against Dr. Sarno and psychosomatic medicine.  Your petty changes have not improved the articles, only wasted my time and yours.  As I've told you before, this is not new information nor alternative medicine.  Dr. Sarno is a professor of Rehabilitation Medicine at the New York University School of Medicine, and has been practicing medicine since 1950, before you were born, I would guess.  And he is attending physician at the Howard A. Rusk Institute of Rehabilitation Medicine at the NYU Medical Center, where he has cured well over 10,000 patients using his pioneering diagnosis for back pain and other musculoskeletal disorders.  He has written four books on his highly successful methods during his career there since 1965.  I suggest you read one or more of them before you attempt to discredit his work.  People suffering from chronic pain need to be able to find out about a cure that actually works and makes disabling pain go away, in spite of skeptics like you, of which there are many.  I suggest you listen to this recent interview to educate yourself about his work. (April, 2007)   Ralphyde 15:41, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You're not understanding the discussion. Please seek others opinions. PostScript seems to agree with me as well, as well as Eamon and others above. Anoko moonlight 20:03, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Eamon's changes were constructive, which I told him, while yours are only petty, destructive, and increasingly annoying.  Ralphyde 23:11, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Gees, are you Sarno himself or what? I understand that having to write NPOV for you is very annoying, but please read the NPOV tutorial. I'm not a so called POV warrior, as I see you call anyone who does not agree with you, the article is biased and that bothered me. If instead of just reverting every change you don't like you would have tried to do something with the criticism, this wouldn't have token so long. Your last change is okay by me. I leave it to others to remove the biased link. Anoko moonlight 10:15, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Updating page 

message: *I believe that, since the article is debating whether the professor is correct in his methods or not, the phrase "according to his book" is relavent, and therefore needs to be included in the article. --PostScript (info/talk/contribs) 15:23, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit War 

message: If User:Ralphyde is not Dr. Sarno himself, he is doing a very good job of making himself appear to be, and doing the doctor a considerable disservice in the process. See the history for this article, as well as that for Tension myositis syndrome for examples of how protective this user is against any attempts to fix the bias in these articles - most notably his immediate removal of all NPOV and similar clean-up notices that have been placed. - Pacula 21:24, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Autobiographical, or perhaps an overly-zealous fan? 

message: I re-wrote chunks of the page:
* The lead I added a ref to TMS
* I added a bibliography (needs expanding)
* I removed the ISBN from the main text, they're intrusive and unnecessary with the bibliography 
* I removed the quote from the Segal reference - it's not needed and adds undue weight.  The reference alone supports the statement in the text and a long quote is bizarre enough to make me want it out.  I see no reason to support it in WP:QUOTE
* I added a link to the main for TMS
* Trivia -> famous patient
That's about it.
WLU 22:24, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re-wrote 

message: I re-wrote the "notable patients" section, adding some more detail and references. It comes across, I think, as a little bit "cheerleading", perhaps reflecting my pro-Sarno personal biases. Nevertheless, I think a sentence or two of "success story" (per celebrity) qualifies as "notable", and if I failed to keep it balanced, feel free to add in whatever I omitted. By the way, I added an (almost) identical section to tension myositis syndrome (apparently no one famous has been treated for TMS by anyone but Sarno himself), so any big errors in the section ought to be corrected in both places. Thanks, and happy holidays! --Steve (talk) 06:30, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Notable patients" section 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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