Talk:Parallel universes in fiction/Archive 1

message: DO NOT EDIT OR POST REPLIES TO THIS PAGE. THIS PAGE IS AN ARCHIVE.
This archive page covers approximately the dates up to feb 06.
Post replies to the main talk page, copying the section you are
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Please add new archivals to Talk:Parallel universe (fiction)/Archive 2. Thank you. Saswann 13:31, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

message: I removed Tolkien because, in his fiction, Middle-Earth is supposed to be the past of the real earth and any remaining hobbits live in the same region they did then, the North-West of the Old World.  So fictionally it's not a parallel universe at all, unlike, say, Narnia.
I think that whole last paragraph could be taken out if people like my definition of a parallel-universe as one involving contact between universes.  Moorcock's and Pratchett's multiverses might become items in the bulleted list.  —JerryFriedman 20:35, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is a parallel-universe story 

message: I don't think the references to Buffy the Vampire Slayer should be there. Barring two episodes (Doppelgandland with the Vampire Willow, and the one in the later season where Buffy imagines(?) that she is in an insane asylum), I can't recall there being parallel universes in any episodes, and certainly not as a recurring sub-plot. However, I'm not sure, could someone more knowledgable about the Buffyverse help out? Satan's Rubber Duck 22:22, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Buffy 

message: Having just made the above substitution,
*It strikes me that this introduction (sic) perhaps needs a bit more coverage of other 'mechanisms' like perhaps all of the various multiverse (disambig) branches: Chaotic inflation theory, Cosmic inflation theory, Bubble universe theory primarily to establish the articles boni fides, as it were, but also to raise the interest of the topic so the reader is drawn in.
#Hitting a disambig page by itself is somewhat annoying. The question is always raised "what am I supposed to consider", as such, is a type of non sequitur 'experientially' in the mind of the reader. As such it is similar to changing the narrative voice or POV in the middle of a fictional paragraph— a no-no to avoid.
#Listing some major varients gives an opportunity to gradually introduce the meat of the article.
:Best regards, <B>Fra</B>nkB 15:39, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  INTRO - Multiverse Vs Multiverse (science) 

message: Apart from Michael Moorcock's Tanelorn and "variants on Earth as we know it" are there any examples of places existing in more than one parallel universe "layer" but not being interdimensional portals? Jackiespeel 21:19, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Places existing in several parallel universes

message: Do they belong in here if there's no connection between them and another world?  Both CSA and Fatherland strike me as not parallel universes because they have no connection -- as described.  (And if there is interaction, that's what needs to go in the description.)  Goldfritha 17:06, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: IMHO I think they don't belong here.  The overlap between alternate history and parallel universes occurs only when the fictional universe acknowleges that there exists more than one (universe) Saswann 02:45, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Alternate histories

message: The Parallel universe (fiction) is well written and more or less complete. In addition, this article repeats a lot of information there. In all reality, a parallel universe is a fictional motif first and a fan-fic motif second. What can be salvaged of the fan-fic article should be, and then it ought to go into this article. -  Che Nuevara:  Join the Revolution 18:08, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, this should definitely be the primary article.  However, I'm not sure if the fan-fic article should be more than pruned of the general information, with a reference to this article.  Length considerations. . . Goldfritha 20:11, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Also, like Alternate history, just the fact that fan-fic alters some other fictional universe doesn't necessarily make it a parallel universe story if no other universes come into play in the story.  I did add Alternative universe (fan fiction) to the Parallel universe disambig page.Saswann 16:29, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge from [[Alternative universe (fan fiction)]] 

message: Just letting the editors of this article know that there is a discussion on Talk:Alternate future about the encyclopedicness of that article in which I think editors of parallel universe (fiction) might be interested in participating. —Lowellian (reply) 20:16, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Alternate future

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Heinlein-Number-of-the-Beast.jpg

message: I am rather surprised that nobody has yet mentioned this, but there is a significant difference between parallel realities and alternate realities in the same way that there is a difference between parallel coordinates (lines) and alternate coordinates (lines).  Obviously, the two different sets of coordinate data that describe parallel lines will never be able to share even a single point in common with each other.  That is the nature of being parallel: they can never touch, no matter where, when or why, or else they are - by definition - not parallel.
Likewise, two different universes existing in parallel along the time/space dimension (aka. the fourth dimension) can never share even a single point of contact or information exchange or else they cease to be parallel!  It doesn't matter wether the point of exchange is a person, a wormhole, or a De Lorean DMC-12; once contact is made with another universe the two cease to be parallel.
I use the phrase "cease to be", but it is arguable that in such a situation you could never truly have considered the two parallel to begin with once contact is made.  The argument would be: 
::*"Side One" - since both universes' timelines are already defined, they are necesarrily 'fixed' in space-time (a requirement of all "true" parallel universes - or else you'd never know they were parallel).  However, since they are fixed in their 4-D positions with one or more points of contact shared somewhere along their timelines, were you able to look along the time/space dimension (i.e. look down the timeline) you would see that they were going to eventually touch in the future.  Since the touching is unavoidable, the timelines were never parallel to begin with.
::*"Side Two" - since space-time is not universally constant, any given "area" of space-time has the potential for change (or modification).  Essentially, the fourth dimension is assumed NOT to be described by lines connecting points, but RATHER by vectors describing direction away from any given point.  Thus, the "timeline" becomes a timevector, and instead of having fixed points connecting one another in a linear progression from "past" to "future" one would have points in time drawing arrows to each other that are subject to influence from overtaking vectors (able to be pushed in a different time/space direction -  potentially on purpose by intelligent beings: i.e. Time Travel).  Timevector A might be genuinely parallel to timevector B to start and share no points of contact, but shifts in one or both vectors (either from cause/effect within the "flow of time" itself, or from an external source) could cause their corresponding realities to change position on the 4-D plane and come into contact with each other.
However, I digress.  The semantics of when and how it is decided that two given universes are parallel/not parallel do not change the fact that when two universes are agreed to be parallel, it is because they DO NOT TOUCH.  Once they touch, they can not be considered parallel - merely "alternate".
Sadly, I have no clue how to trick someone into re-writing the entire article to accurately reflect the difference between parallel = separate, alternate = simply different(maybe).  Arguing with myself on the Talk page is fun, completely overhauling the presentation of an article: not so much.  --Museerouge 09:27, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you're making a semantic error. The "parallel" of parallel worlds refers to social development, not the physics of their interaction. They are parallel because they developed more-or-less the same, except for the one or two changes that set them apart from one another. That's because the term "parallel universe" is one that originated in fiction, not in science, and was coined to let people know that most things on these worlds will be the same, except for a few details here and there. In fact, almost every work of fiction that includes parallel worlds DOES have them touch at some point, because if they didn't, then the parallel world wouldn't actually be part of the story. Therefore, in common practice, parallel worlds can and do have interaction with one another, or else this entire article would be nonexistant. Whether the fact that they touch meshes with a hard definition on "parallel" is meaningless. --Ig8887 (talk) 22:54, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Parallel VS. Alternate 

message: I rated this article as C, and added 2 tags:
1. This seems too long (39 Kb readable prose) - a lot of text is just listing examples without any particular discusion, especially the later sections. Other media are already discussed throughout the article, why are large extra sections needed? Also the sections that summarise other articles don't need to go into so much detail. Hyperspace is rarely considered as a parallel world in fiction, just a currently unknown phenomenon of this world, it doesn't need so much discusion.
2. Many more refs are needed for an article of this size. Most of it's claims are uncited at the moment.Yobmod (talk) 12:13, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Rating and tagging

message: I know this is not relevant to the article, but I need a book for some research and I have had trouble finding it as I have forgotten the name. The book is about a group of children who travel to a parallel universe to find their father. They encounter a dystopian world, where its inhabitants are controlled by a single powerful entity, I think his name was the One or something. Well, they end up rescuing there father and destroy is powerful entity and return to earth. I would greatly appreciate it if somebody could name the book. Thank you.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.71.153.152 (talk) 06:49, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: So, what is it?  —Tamfang (talk) 16:55, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Appeal for Help 

message: Dear Sir / Madam,
                 I have a pleasure to mail to you.
I believe that there has to be an existence of the beginning for which reason /
reasons everything begins. Now, how to catch or  find the 
" Existence of the Beginning ", I have bit thought of it.
My thought " Let us take a dead living thing either human or animal or
plant from earth to mars and moon then will the dead living thing will get
decomposed or not, because for any dead living thing to get decomposed
air and water is necessary. If the dead living thing do not get decomposed then
we can be sure of existence of miracle and if the dead living thing get 
decomposed then we can be sure of existence of life which is yet another
feet of miracle, but, only we have to find out the form"
Thanks,
Shekhar Sinha.
shekhar_shk@rediffmail.com,
mobile no: +91-98640-63046  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.95.37.85 (talk) 10:24, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Existence of Beginning by Shekhar P. Sinha, Guwahati,India 

message: look, i dont think that many examples of parallel universes should be given, the more there are, the more likely someone will get them wrong.
for example, in the wizard of oz, the world Dorothy went wasnt a parallel universe at all, it was simply a dream Dorothy had
the only examples given should be specific and helpful examples of parallel universes, such as The Dark Tower series by Stephen King, or Marvel Zombies, where parallel universes is acually a term used in the book, movie, etc., not speculation by someone else on what they think COULD be a parallel universe...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.151.80.246 (talk) 01:30, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article.... 

message: Not a single mention of Murray Leinster or Jack Williamson, the first writers of fact or fiction to popularize the idea of alternate universes.  An incredible oversight!76.71.56.95 (talk) 20:15, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unbelievable! 

message: I merged in information from a duplicate article, and did some major work on the lead paragraphs.  I imposed a structure, but everything is still a bit of a mess.  I'll continue working on the thing, but help would be appreciated :)  --Saswann 21:11, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  IMHO-- officially no longer a mess.  Still needs work --Saswann 14:05, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Still a good read. Maybe a mention of The Matrix in the movie section? An obvious example of parallel realities. -Jason  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.252.92.114 (talk) 07:49, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The whole article needs to be rewritten so the literary works are mentioned in their proper chronological order.    Right now it is a big mess, and leaves out a lot of "parallel world" stories between 1950 and 1980.   Dexter Nextnumber (talk) 23:09, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger and Major Rewrite 

message: :Discussion for merging the section §In popular culture (and its subsections: §Literature, §Film, §Television and §Other fictional uses) from the Multiverse article to the Parallel universe (fiction) article.
:The scope of the Multiverse article is: the Multiverse hypotheses in physics; in philosophy and logic; and in religion and spirituality. Whereas, the "Multiverse#In popular culture" section should explain the subject's impact on popular culture, a topic which seems to be treated in depth by the Parallel universe (fiction) article, the section has been tagged since May 2010 as having accumulated a list of appearances and trivia. Arguably, the section has become unmanageable within the scope of the Multiverse article and it should summarize Parallel universe (fiction) with a {main} link and with any non–duplicated, notable content having been integrate there.
:The two articles are both in :Category:Science fiction themes. Other current inclusions:
:*The Multiverse article is in :Portal:Physics, :Category:Physical cosmology, :Category:Quantum mechanics and :Category:Universe; Template:Physical cosmology assists navigation.
:*The Parallel universe (fiction) article is in :Category:Parallel universes (fiction), :Category:Fiction and :Category:Setting; Template:Science fiction assists navigation.
:CC: "Talk:Multiverse#Merge Pop Culture section to "Parallel universe (fiction)" article" and "Talk:Parallel universe (fiction)#Merge from Multiverse "In Popular culture" section".—Machine Elf 1735 (talk) 17:35, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Removed the tag, no response either way.—Machine Elf 1735 (talk) 06:07, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge from Multiverse "In Popular culture" section 

message: Further to the 'Parallel VS. Alternate' discussion, surely the word 'alternative' is a better description of what the main article conveys? 86.29.89.208 15:51, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure, I think it may be correct American English (similar to 'orient' as opposed to 'orientate'), but certainly not international English...  although I fear it may become cromulent.  And American English is just a bastardised form anyway. ;) 82.32.11.95 (talk) 21:19, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  'Alternate'? 

message: It's unclear why the article is given a fiction name. If the article is suppose to be about it's use in ficiton then the article could be renamed to Parallel universe in fiction otherwise I think Parallel universe is the correct name and the disambiguation page would be moved to Parallel universe (disambiguation). Regards, SunCreator (talk) 22:20, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Khestwol (talk) 13:11, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article name 

message: The Buffy/Angel references leave out a lot of information.  The entire series rests on the premise that there is an alternate plane, usually called the "demon plane", from which most of the monsters Buffy and Angel fight originated.  The idea is that in ancient history, the world was ruled by demons and that they were banished to the demon plane.  
The demon plane is the source of demons who are magically conjured to this world.  A lot of story arcs that culminated in season finales involved plots by demons from that realm to conquer Earth (check out the finale episodes "Becoming" from season 2, or "Graduation Day" from season 3, for example).  A few episodes featured characters travelling directly to the demon plane, establishing, among other things, that time runs slower there and that vampires can survive in the daylight in that plane.  The first instance of this happening, I believe, was the episode "Anne" from season 3.
:This is not a "demon plane" article.  It is a "parallel universe" article.  The information about the "demon plane" belongs in a separate article except insofar as it may help illuminate the general concept -- and even then only if it is among the best examples, and does not confuse by implying that the "demon plane" is somehow unique or inordinately important.  Goldfritha 16:06, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: On looking at the article again, I see it is not (no longer?) limited to the branching concept. —Tamfang (talk) 02:37, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Demon Plane in the "Buffyverse" 

message: That's not how I remember it.  The Red Lectroids are exiles living in New Jersey, and plan to return to Planet Ten through the eighth dimension (now that Doctor Banzai has demonstrated technology to penetrate the eighth dimension safely). —Tamfang (talk) 20:52, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Buckaroo Banzai 

message: not moved. per noetica and 65.92 below. --regentspark (comment) 21:18, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Parallel universe (fiction) → Parallel world – --Khestwol (talk) 06:47, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no reason to put the word "fiction" in the title as per the comments in the above section "Article name". I agree with the title "parallel universe" too, but in my opinion, the title "parallel world" is most suitable for this article. --Khestwol (talk) 04:16, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Requested move

message: i added Sliding Doors (1998), Groundhog Day (film) (1993), The Family Man (2000). in Films  section. but SuperMarioMan deleted it by reverting to last version. --Qdinar (talk) 07:57, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Sliding Doors and The Family Man had already been added to the section. And Groundhog Day seems to deal primarily with time travel – that rather stretches the definition of "parallel universe". SuperMarioMan 02:53, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sliding Doors, Groundhog Day (film), The Family Man 

message: The parallel universe fantasy trilogy, comprising "The Northern Lights" (1995), published as "The Golden Compass" in the United States, "The Subtle Knife" (1997) and "The Amber Spyglass" (2000) have been significant works of the turn of the millenium.  I believe they should be allotted some attention in this article.
Among the accolades for the trilogy, "The Northern Lights" won the Carnegie Medal for Children's Literature in 1995 and "The Amber Spyglass" took the 2001 Whitbread Prize for best children's book and the 2002 Whitbread Book of the Year prize.  The series of books came third the BBC's Big Read poll in 2003, and the trilogy was made into a two-part play in 2003-2004 by the Royal Theatre. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/His_dark_materials) A Hollywood film based on "The Northern Lights" ("The Golden Compass") was released by New Line Cinema in 2007, directed by Chris Weitz and starring Nicole Kidman, Daniel Craig and Ian McKellen. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0385752/) The film won an Oscar the following year for its visual effects,(http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0385752/awards) by which Lyra's parallel world of zeppelins, gladiatorial armoured polar bears and flying Arctic withces was brought to life, and in which every peron wore their soul on the outside, as a spirit-animal called a daemon.
 
The entire first book is set in this parallel universe, and in the second and third books, the teenage protagonists, each from different universes - Lyra Belacqua ( from the world of the first book) and Will Parry (from our own world)- learn the mysteries and burdens of travelling between parallel universes, how such universes are created. A bifurcation creates two universes every time a decision is made. The longer ago the bifurcation, the less like our own is the planet Earth.  Their struggle to save all these universes from a mysterious, draining physical force is on a monumentual, Biblical scale. 
The trilogy has been described as a retelling of Milton's "Paradise Lost", but from an opposite perspective. (Robert Butler (3 December 2007). "An Interview with Philip Pullman". Intelligent Life (The Economist). http://www.moreintelligentlife.com/node/697. Retrieved on 10 July 2008.)  This is a work written for young adults, but of enormous appeal to adults also.
A discussion, or at least a mention of this important work, would give greater completion to this article.
Anthea Whitwell  21 July 2009 220.237.81.93 (talk) 10:02, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pullman's His Dark Materials Trilogy 

message: ni no kuni deals with 2 separate worlds while tales of xillia 2 deals with alternate versions of 1 world.84.213.46.153 (talk) 21:57, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  ni no kuni and tales of xillia should be added to the list of games 

message: There is request for comment about capitalization of the word universe at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Capital letters#Capitalization of universe - request for comment. Please participate.  SchreiberBike talk 00:43, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussion of capitalization of ''universe'' 

message: As I recall, Quantam Leap consisted of Scott Bakula's character jumping from one person to another, making sure the universe\reality\history didn't change (to the point he jumped into Lee Harvey Oswald and had to shoot JFK).  Also had his friend appear to him while not actually being there.  I don't know if this would be considered a parallel universe or whether it was attempting to prevent one, or what.  I don't know enough about the show to add it, or even decide if it should be included.  Any ideas?  Leobold111 (talk) 16:25, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quantam Leap 

message: An RfC has been commenced at MOSCAPS Request for comment - Capitalise universe.
Cinderella157 (talk) 03:23, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notification of request for comment 

message: Should we/I add 'The Flash' (the new TV series) here? In the show, they go back and forth between 'Earth' and an 'Earth-2' (the inhabitants of 'Earth-2' view 'Earth' (1) as 'Earth-2'). 108.34.207.201 (talk) 21:26, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  'Television' Section 

message: Alternate universes involve changing the universe the original work takes place in but even so, the fanfiction is confined to this singular, changed universe. Parallel universe, on the other hand, implies multiple universes existing in tandem in the same story and being acknowledged within the canon of the work. 
Also, alternate universe is far more prevalent in fan fiction and a prevalent, key category. It just doesn't mean the same thing when applied to fiction as it exists as an independent genre solely within the realm of fan fiction. 
They are two distinct genres by definition, use, and context. For this reason, the pages should be kept separate.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.91.248.234 (talk) 14:51, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oppose merging the alternate universe and parallel universe pages  

message: There needs to be a section documenting what physicists/mathematicians think of the concept of parallel worlds. 76.227.60.242 (talk) 04:30, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I thought (fiction) was enough of a sign, but I've added the hatnote. Argento Surfer (talk) 14:32, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scientific Perspective  

message: Simply said, if you're going to use travel from one universe to the other in a fiction piece, be sure it includes a great amount of humor. 2601:2C0:C280:6613:38A8:9E3B:63B3:171D (talk) 20:56, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Parallel universes in fiction.