Talk:Tenor horn

message: Solos for the alto horn are very occasional, and are usually taken by the solo horns.
What's a "solo horn"? I'm not arguing; I'm asking for clarification inline in the text or via a link. I think the author meant "an alto horn shaped like and played horizontally facing forward like a mellophone" Jaxdelaguerre (talk) 05:54, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Cleared this up, "solo horn" was mentioned early and defined late in the article, so I collated all the history and morphological stuff and put it before the reference to "solo horns" taking the solos. Jaxdelaguerre (talk) 05:21, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  solo horn? 

message: Currently reads
Other saxhorns include the baritone horn.
Style question: Having mentioned and linked to saxhorn in the introductory sentence of History, this statement seems either superfluous (i.e. they can go to saxhorn if they want to know about more saxhorns) or inadequate (i.e., what about the other saxhorns?). Should it be removed, or expanded, or left as-is?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaxdelaguerre (talk • contribs) 06:03, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Commented out offending passage with a brief explanation. If no one is bothered or takes some other action, in a month I'll delete it. Jaxdelaguerre (talk) 04:34, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it makes sense the way you did it. Maybe that sentence made more sense in a previous version of the section, but it's better without now. WeisheitSuchen (talk) 07:16, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Awesome, thanks. Jaxdelaguerre (talk) 15:00, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  History section 

message: yeah... this article should be revised, the information is "too specific" concerning technique. It downright has nothing to do with technique, but rather with "how to start playing it" (more or less...).  Maybe someone could write something about how the mouthpiece relates to other, more common mouthpieces, such as that of the tenor trombone (or how about the alto trombone?) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nicholasnice (talk • contribs) 03:04, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  RE: Wikihow 

message: The paragraph of numbered points in the Playing Technique section is written like a 'beginner's guide to playing'. This should be changed, or as suggested before, moved to somewhere more appropriate. Mickthefish 16:14, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Playing Technique 'Guide' 

message: Call me ignorant, but I don't see any correlation between the Tales of Symphonia character and the alto horn. The word "genis" doesn't even appear in the article. So, just out of curiosity, why on Earth does "Genis" redirect to the Alto horn page and not the Tales character? 216.36.7.39 22:41, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Genis Sage 

message: An editor has removed my contribution that "peck horn" is an alternate name for the alto horn.  I first became aware of this instrument when a line in The Music Man mentioned "peck horns".  Since I expected others might be interested in finding what a "peck horn" is, and since this is probably the most commonly known name for the instrument among the general public, I thought it was worth mentioning the name in this article.
I'm fine if someone wants to mark the name "peck horn" as "slang", but it seems worthy of mentioning it.  Seitz (talk) 04:31, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's listed in the section under "Naming Issues." Here's the exact quote: "In the U.S., it is colloquially known as the "peck horn". This name is mentioned in The Music Man." Does that address your concern? WeisheitSuchen (talk) 16:51, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it does.  I saw the edit, and didn't notice that paragraph was still present.  Sorry for the false alarm. Seitz (talk) 04:53, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

text: Recently added further citations to that colloquial usage. Jaxdelaguerre (talk) 04:36, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Peck horn 

message: Django Bates playing the tenor horn?  I've looked at his page and although he's a great musician, it seems as though the tenor horn is a bit of a joke to him.  Has he recorded or composed anything that we could access?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bruce Myers (talk • contribs) 11:33, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Tim Girling - solo horn player for the Australian National Band, based in Canberra.
However, I cannot verify the existence of an Australian National Band (excuse my ignorance), merely an Australian National Band competition, in which some bands in Canberra have participated. There is apparently a brass player named Tim Girling who plays for the Salvation Army Band of Canberra. Does anyone know of this player? Jaxdelaguerre (talk) 05:44, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

text: Hey mate, I have heard of that guy. He plays Solo Horn for Woden Valley Corps Band (a Salvation Army citadel in Canberra), but I'm not sure about the Australian National Band thing. -- Parradudes (talk) 00:36, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, Thumperward edited that whole section out as unsourced. He's probably right, in the absence of both widespread general knowledge and a quotable authority which evaluates players, lists of best players are conjectural, not encyclopedic. JacquesDelaguerre (talk) 06:25, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I wholeheartedly agree. --202.55.154.196 (talk) 05:31, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Players 

message: There are also alto horns built in French horn shape:
product description on a manufacturer's page
Shouldn't this be included as well? -- megA (talk) 10:51, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right, I've edited to note that instrument is valved, moved morphological information out of History to Description, and added reference to Cerveny's unusually shaped Alto Horns. Jaxdelaguerre (talk) 14:31, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  French Horn Shape 

message: Two conclusions currently expressed in Description
# composers were discouraged from writing for the instrument due to intrinsic factors
# market dominated by two makers
It seems to me that these two could be construed as controversial and/or tendentious and need external citation. JacquesDelaguerre (talk) 22:27, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Description 

message: Dear Colleagues,
In my long years of professional musical experience on the US, I realized that the terminology concerning the saxhorn family in this country has shifted in a surprising way:
American musicians call the alto horn a tenor horn; the tenor horn - a baritone; and the baritone - an euphonium. In Europe, "euphonium" is simply the other name of "baritone".
The tenor horn (in B-flat) is a big deal in European wind orchestras, just open a score and you will see "Tenors in Si-bemol (B-flat) Tenor I, II, III. However, it is suspiciously absent from American concert band scores, and eventually my astonishment turned into a realization: Americans simply call the tenor horn "a baritone". So, it is present in American scores after all, but under the name of his cousin. Furthermore, the baritone is also present, but under the name of "euphonium". But that is not all; on the Wikipedia and elsewhere, the tenor horn is confused with an alto horn in Es, which is a smaller instrument that corresponds in function to the French horn (in E-flat and F). You will not see a European score which contains "Tenor horn in Es"; rather, this is the alto horn labeled as "Alhorn in Es" in German, or "Flicorno alto" in Italian.
The tenor horn and the baritone are alike, they are both In B-flat, have the same range, and may substitute for each other. The difference is in the width of the bore which affects the tone a little. Again, in the US the tenor horn is called "a baritone", and the baritone is called "an euphonium". This explains those videos and talks about the difference between the baritone (tenor horn) and the euphonium (baritone).
If you do not agree with the above statements, please open a European score for a large or middle size wind orchestra, and you will see those tenor horns in B-flat. If you manage to ever find a score including "Tenors in E-flat", I would revise my opinion on the Wikipedia article. Besides, they claim that the German name for "Tenor horn" is "Althorn". It is not; the Germans label the Tenor horn either as "Tenorhorn" or as "Bass-Flugelhorn". The latter term implies that it plays an octave below than the usual flugelhorn in B-flat.
Please, watch this 3-minute video on Tenor and Baritone, made by British performer Phil Dale from the Prince Regent's Band, and let me know what you think:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78qCc9xk18Q&t=54s
Thank you for your attention.
Best regards,
Mutaeditor, 30 August, 2021 Mutaeditor (talk) 19:32, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for coming here to discuss this. I disagree with your premise, as I think you are talking about the wrong instrument. As the article makes clear, the instrument here described is the one in E-flat, called "tenor horn" in the UK and, as I understand it, correctly called "alto horn" in the US. So it is a simple British English vs American English thing: the BrE tenor horn is in E-flat and is the same as the AmE alto horn. I feel that the article does deal fairly well with the name differences and the fact that this, like much brass instrument nomenclature, is a mess. Should an additional note with an RS be added to say that "tenor horn" might mean something different elsewhere? I am not sure, maybe. But to add something which says that the entire existing article is wrong, because it is about the BrE tenor horn in E-flat, doesn't seem at all acceptable to me. Best wishes DBaK (talk) 20:22, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tenor horn 

message: Dear Colleagues,
It looks as if some musicians in Great Britain (not all), call the alto horn "a tenor horn" which is wrong in comparison with the rest of the world. I suggest that you open some European scores for wind orchestra and see in there the parts for Tenor, I, II, and III in B-flat (which in USA would mean Baritone I, II, III in B-flat). What Europeans call a baritone is known under "euphonium" in Europe. If you tell a German musician, or an Italian, Russian, French, Dutch, Eastern European in general - that the tenor horn is an instrument pitched in E-flat, they will be astounded, the least to say... 
This is why I am very sorry for the provincial explanation in the Grove dictionary which obviously reflects what is thought of in some British bands as "Tenor horn", dismissing the fact that worldwide this instrument is considered an alto horn. That is not only a pity, it sends a wrong signal to the entire world. On the other hand, if they rephrase this by saying that "the alto horn, an instrument pitched in E-flat and corresponding in function to the French horn, is known in Great Britain bands as "tenor horn in E-flat", that would partially clear the confusion...
Therefore, I have a proposition for some of you: you are right that the Wiki article is about an instrument pitched in E-flat. Just do not call it "a tenor horn, "but changed the name of the same article to "Alto Horn". Then everything will fall in place and the vast majority of the world will know what you are talking about. This does not prevent you from stating that in some Great Britain bands they call the alto horn "a tenor horn in E-flat". :)
To summarize: In Europe - tenor horn = baritone in USA; in Europe - baritone = euphonium in USA; in Europe - alto horn = alto horn in USA. And for those of you who still insist that the alto horn should be called "a tenor horn" in Great Britain, I am pasting the British video again, where a British instrumentalist very clearly shows and calls "Tenor horn" an instrument in B-flat, comparing it to the slightly wider baritone. About this vide you say: "It's great, but he is an original-instruments player from an original-instruments band. He is not playing a current tenor horn: he is showing us the old instruments that he plays in the band. It sounds as if he would probably call their E-flat horn an alto, but he would also know that this is not current mainstream BrE usage." I do not sense the logic here; that he is an original instrumentalist from an original instruments-band does not make him wrong by saying that a tenor horn is an instrument in B-flat; this is what all the world thinks except from some parts of Great Britain and The Common Wealth, as you say. No, these are not "old-fashioned instruments" who have lost their application nowadays. Germans still produce oval shaped tenors and baritones like those, vs. the American baritones and euphoniums. Thanks for your attention.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78qCc9xk18Q&t=58s
Best regards,
Mutaeditor, 8 September, 2021Mutaeditor (talk) 18:13, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: For the record, I am opposed to this change, especially after carefully rereading this entire Talk page, but I am finished discussing this matter for now. Best wishes to all DBaK (talk) 12:12, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Change the title of article 

message: Dear Colleagues,
Please take a look at this video, where a British instrumentalist presents the alto horn (in E-flat), and compare to the video below it, where another British instrumentalist presents the tenor horn and the baritone (both in B-flat, of course). These two presentations summarize the view of almost the entire musical world about the alto, tenor and baritone horns, including the British Regent's orchestra instrumentalists (at least), and makes strange the claim of some other British musicians that an alto horn should be called "a tenor horn in E-flat". No, there is no such thing, and if Wikipedia wants to clear its reputation, it should reflect the worldwide opinion on the alto and tenor horns, and not the limited, peculiar interpretation shared by some people on the isle. Is Wikipedia supposed to be a reflection of provincial, uncommon, and highly questionable views of some of its members, or is it supposed to be a reflection of what the vast majority of musicians around the world (including some British musicians) think? If it is the later, then the title Tenor Horn should be changed to Alto Horn, and everything will fall in place. No, it is not about the difference between British English and American English interpretation; it is about the difference between the musical world and a limited circle of British musicians. 
Compare to saxophones (except the Baritone Sax):
Alto sax is in E-flat, and Alto horn is in E-flat.
Tenor sax is in B-flat, and Tenor horn is in B-flat. I think that, originally, these instruments (saxes, tenor and alto horns) may have been invented or improved by the same maker (hence the name Saxhorns for the latter).
The British Regent's Band on Alto horn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4-pOZp78wA
The British Regent's Band on Tenor horn and baritone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78qCc9xk18Q 
Mutaeditor, 13 September, 2021.Mutaeditor (talk) 00:40, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a rehash of the same item above. —C.Fred (talk) 01:57, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Presentation of the Alto Horn by a British instrumentalist 

message: Hi, I was wondering if I should add some info on versions of the alto horn such as the double bell alto horn, Over the shoulder alto horn, and marching alto horn. The actinium is mentioned, but I wanted to see if this info would be notable enough to add to the page. Ryan56DCIfan (talk) 16:02, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Versions of the alto horn