Talk:A Mighty Heart (film)

message: I'd like to hear if Orville could find any actress half as talented as Angelina Jolie to play the role. It's not an issue of race, it simply is an issue that nobody could've played the role, with as much dignity and empathy, as Angelina.Violet yoshi 04:24, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not our place to agree or disagree with Douglas, merely to report that Jolie's casting has generated criticism. — Brian (talk) 04:37, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orville Lloyd Douglas  

message: I would have rather wanted to engage in a discussion on the talk page rather than the person emailing me directly. However, Jordanjames emailed the following:
:On Wikipedia's page for "A Mighty Heart" the movie I don't agree with the comments made about Orville Lloyd Douglas criticism. You say Wikipedia is netural and yet its obvious in that section about the movie A Mighty Heart there is a BIAS against Douglas statements and the black community's view of the movie. I think Douglas made it very clear in his article "Shades of Blackface" which was published in the New Zealand Herald that the black community was AGAINST the film DUE to the casting of Jolie. Why is the black community's concerns about the film ignored? The I also do NOT agreee with the statement on that page "despite overwhelming positive reviews." I would like to point out those positive reviews were made in the WHITE MEDIA. And many blacks were OUTRAGED and OFFENDED that Jolie took the female lead in that movie and DOuglas work explains why. So why is Wikipedia's so BIASED in that section of the criticism.
I decided to take a good look at the edits he made and see what could be added back in. 
My response was, 
:"I personally don't think it is biased, as there really are mostly positive reviews and only a small number of negative ones. However, it *is* noted that it has caused an uproar in the African-American community (in the words of Douglas). Although that doesn't change the number of positive reviews it has received.
:I don't see how that section is biased against Douglas."
Here are edits that I would add back in (with some corrections):
* "there was a backlash against the film by the black community." To: "the movie was not well received by the African-American community."
* "...since many black media websites such as BET.COM, Bossip.com, Concreteloop.com, and many more slammed the film over the issue of casting." I asked if he could provide me with the links to these reviews but so far I haven't received them.
* "The perception by many African Americans was that it was racist for Anglelina Jolie a white American actress to be cast as Mariane Pearl." However: 'racist' would be changed to 'wrong,' 'white' to European-American. "Racist" is a strong term. It would be edited as: "It has been perceived by many African-Americans that it was wrong for Angelina Jolie, a European-American actress, to be cast as Mariane Pearl."
Also, the word "although" would be put back at the beginning. "[Although] the film has received...."
Edits that I don't agree with:
*"Douglas identified that Pearl has an "ambivalence about her black heritage," due to the fact in the article Pearl wrote for Glamour Magazine she refused to use the word "Black" and instead used the word "Cuban". He argues the word "Cuban" refers to nationality and not "race." Douglas viewpoint is Pearl attempts to conseal her blackness by using the word "Cuban" instead of "Black" because Pearl has an identity crisis." Why: This is conjecture on the part of the author over how another person feels about their identity. It has little, if anything, to do with the film itself. It is also an attempt to discredit Ms. Pearl's feelings regarding the casting.
*"He argues blackface is not just about whether a white actor uses makeup to have a light or dark skin tone. Blackface is the racist message that black actors can be replaced by whites because the studio believes white women are more marketable and profitable.Douglas illustrates the film is just another n example of Hollywood discrimination against black actresses." Why: Blackface and Hollywood discrimination is already mentioned in the article. 
Ok, what do others thinks? -- WiccaIrish 07:30, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, I've finally been able to get an email response on whether the user agrees or not with the changes: "I agree to the changes you made. Release the block." -- WiccaIrish 12:38, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

text: Another email: "I am not able to log in online. Can you just tell the administrator I agree to the terms." -- WiccaIrish 04:29, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Email discussion

message: If anything needs to be added to the criticism section, this (Mixed Message in The New Republic) is it:
"I am worried that 'A Mighty Heart' falls into a trap … : the paradox of moral equivalence, of seeking to extend the logic of tolerance a step too far," writes Daniel Pearl's own father, Judea Pearl, in The New Republic. "You can see traces of this logic in the film's comparison of Danny's abduction with Guantanamo -- it opens with pictures from the prison -- and its comparison of Al Qaeda militants with CIA agents. You can also see it in the comments of the movie's director, Michael Winterbottom, who wrote on The Washington Post's Web site that 'A Mighty Heart' and his previous film, 'The Road to Guantanamo', 'are very similar. Both are stories about people who are victims of increasing violence on both sides. There are extremists on both sides who want to ratchet up the levels of violence and hundreds of thousands of people have died because of this.' Drawing a comparison between Danny's murder and the detainment of suspects in Guantanamo is precisely what the killers wanted, as expressed in both their e-mails and the murder video. … I am concerned that aspects of his movie will play into the hands of professional obscurers of moral clarity. … There was a time when drawing moral symmetries between two sides of every conflict was a mark of original thinking. Today, with Western intellectuals overextending two-sidedness to reckless absurdities, it reflects nothing but lazy conformity. What is needed now is for intellectuals, filmmakers and the rest of us to resist this dangerous trend and draw clear distinctions between those who aim to maximize innocent casualties and those who labor to minimize them ..." Asteriks 20:56, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Charge of "Moral Equivalence" by Daniel's Own Father 

message: I'm not really in the mood to be the "man with the fingers on the keyboard" if the work can be done by the editors of this article.  It seems that a consensus has been reached and so I have unprotected the page.  Please continue to discuss points of contention with civility and reach consensus rather than engage in edit-warring.
--Richard 03:40, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article unprotected 

message: Under Criticism section: From,
The film has received overwhelmingly positive reviews, but pop culture critic Orville Lloyd Douglas has criticized the casting of Angelina Jolie in the role of Mariane Pearl because, he said, "Jolie is white" and Mariane Pearl is "bi-racial." Douglas claimed that "there was an uproar by the African American community," that Pearl has an "ambivalence about her black heritage," and that although the real Mariane Pearl is not dark skinned, Jolie's portrayal is blackface and an example of Hollywood discrimination against black actresses. In fact, Mariane Pearl is multiracial: half Dutch-Jewish, three eighths Afro-Latino-Cuban and one eighth Chinese Cuban.
To:
Although the film has received overwhelmingly positive reviews, the movie was not well received by the African-American community due to its casting. Pop culture critic Orville Lloyd Douglas has criticized the casting of Angelina Jolie in the role of Mariane Pearl because, he said, "Jolie is white" and Mariane Pearl is "bi-racial." Douglas claimed that "there was an uproar by the African American community," that Pearl has an "ambivalence about her black heritage," and that although the real Mariane Pearl is not dark skinned, Jolie's portrayal is blackface and an example of Hollywood discrimination against black actresses. In fact, Mariane Pearl is multiracial: half Dutch-Jewish, three eighths Afro-Latino-Cuban and one eighth Chinese Cuban.
-- WiccaIrish 04:29, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Editprotected requests are reserved for uncontroversial changes; the changes suggested seem to have some controversy behind them. Talk to the protecting admin () if you feel the page should have its protection reduced. Cheers. --MZMcBride 13:37, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: I have just deleted the repetition of information concerning the reception given the film and have added a link to a BET article on the controversy brought on by the casting of Angelina Jolie. I have also removed three sentences from the coverage of the Orville Lloyd Douglas article:
# "Douglas also argues that defenders of Mariane Pearl ignore the internal racism and self-loathing some biracial people have about their black heritage" is not supported by the text of the Douglas article.
# "In North America, Pearl is viewed as a black woman despite what some see as her attempts to embrace whiteness and distance herself from her black heritage" is not supported by the text of the Douglas article.
# "Douglas has argued that Pearl will never be viewed as white in North America because of her darker skin and kinky curly hair" is not supported by Douglas' blog, the source provided. 
I propose one other edit, that being removing the coverage of the Douglas article. Simply put, I question why it is that an article which garnered no attention, written by a relatively unknown "Pop critic", receives such prominence here. Looking over the edit history, I note that its inclusion (and defense of same) rests with  and  two single purpose accounts. 
I write this recognizing the discussion already found on this page and look forward to discussion of this proposal. Victoriagirl 02:45, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Orville Lloyd Douglas article

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thread_title:  Dead link 

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thread_title:  Dead link 2 

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