Talk:Denel Rooivalk

message: I have taken the initiative and moved this page from Denel Aviation AH-2 Rooivalk, as the company website states that Denel Aviation is a company within Denel Aerospace Systems. In addition, the Denel Aerospace site states that it manufactures the AH-2 Rooivalk. - BillCJ 16:19, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move 

message: Rooivalk literally means "red falcon" however a better translation would be "kestrel". The name is appropriate as the kestrel is a hovering bird. See http://www.matroosberg.com/birdlist.htm Booshank 18:12, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have a citeable printed source that calls it the "Red Kestrel". Would that be an acceptable change? - BillCJ 18:47, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: According to "Robert's Birds of Southern Africa" there are 3 species of birds known as "Rooivalk" or variations thereof in Afrikaans: 1. Falco rupicoloides - Greater Kestrel/Groot Rooivalk  2. Falco naumanni - Lesser Kestrel/Klein Rooivalkie  3. Falco tinnunculus - Rock Kestrel/Rooivalkie. It would be interesting to know which one of these small raptors "they" had in mind when naming the helicopter. There is no South African bird commonly name "Red Kestrel" in English.  Roger 11:41, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name 

message: In the article it claims that the Rooivalk was developed from the Alouette but the Infobox claims that it was developed from the Puma...
These are demonstrably different aircraft and this section should be fixed... Eugene Roux 13:06, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for catching that. The first paragraphs under "Background" came from the XH-1 Alpha article, where "It" referred to the Alpha. There need to be more on the development of the AH-2 from the Puma as the XH-2, but I haven't found a good source to use yet. - BillCJ 18:31, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Developed From 

message: * Changed to a reference style for all news updates
* Added end of Rooivalk section
A sad end to a wonderful design! 
Koxinga CDF 16:32, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Changes 

message: BillCJ, the revert cycle isn't getting us anywhere, so it's probably best to iron the issue out here before filling up any more edit boxes. 
Fact is, the RAH-66 Comanche never entered service, it remained a prototype. As such, it is more comparable to helicopters like the Cheyenne, rather than helicopters like the Rooivalk which have entered service (and you're right about the number of 12). However, the main difference is in the roles of the two aircraft: The Comanche was to have been a quick and light armed scout helicopter, with enough weaponry to defend itself and undertake the odd surgical strike but none of the offensive firepower of the Apache. The Rooivalk, on the contrary, is a heavy attack helicopter far closer to the Apache in its capability and intended mission. 
If we are to include the Comanche in the Comparable aircraft list, well then we might as well just include each and every attack helicopter on earth in there, including all the Russian helos. Yet this is unworkable, so I'd suggest moving to stricter criteria for deciding on what to include in that list. Personally, I would prefer to limit it to heavy attack helicopters, such as the Apache and Mi-28. — Impi 17:40, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think I've discovered part of the problem. I was going by the specs in this article, which has errors. The MTOW is listed at 8,750 kg (13,225 lb), and the pounds is what I was going by. I double-checked a print source, and it lists 8,750 kg (19,290 lb). I'm correcting it in the specs now, and removing the RAH-66. Sorry for the confusion. - BillCJ 18:28, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No problem at all. I'm glad we were able to sort this out amiably. And thanks for the correction, I hadn't noticed that error before. — Impi 19:30, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comparable aircraft: Comanche 

message: Should this article mention the loss of one Rooivalk?   Roger (talk) 16:37, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Loss of one airframe 

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thread_title:  Blacklisted Links Found on the Main Page 

message: Hi, The article is mostly well supported by citations to sources, I've requested a few more. Then could be reassessed as "B". Can anyone who contributed please help? Thanks, DPdH (talk) 20:51, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations please 

message: Why is the South African Rooivalk the subject of so many myths and legends? It is claimed that this helicopter did almost everything first (from flying inverted to the optronics - a commercial foreign system) and better than anything that ever was or ever will be - yet most of these claims are easily debunked with a quick search. The proponents also get highly emotional about the objective facts. They will become very angry about 'copy-cats' that 'look similar' (e.g. the A129 and T129) - even if these flew long before the Rooivalk project even started. Many key components are directly from foreign or existing designs licensed. It was only produced in tiny numbers with only one customer. The avionics are from the dark ages. It also until recently lacked key systems that any modern battlefield helicopter should have. It is also expensive. Is this emotional response to the helicopter the result of state propaganda? Or lack of information during South Africa's isolation period? Or a defeated people trying to make a legacy that never was? Something else? Is this issue worthy of a section? Anonymous due to me not wanting to be stalked by South African nationalists.196.24.216.2 (talk) 08:31, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: It's hard to take you seriously because of all the hyperbolic language - "myths and legends"? And fear of being stalked? LOL. It's a Wikipedia article, with poor writing, bad editing, recentism, and other issues typical of those that aren't watched all that carefully. Even your specific criticisms, few that there are, are widely off-base. It doesn't claim to be the first to fly inverted: {{|The Rooivalk is capable of doing a loop and thus momentarily "flying upside down".}} However, this is unsourced, and should probably be removed. Not sure where the "They will become very angry about 'copy-cats' that 'look similar'" criticism comes from either, and the rest is just blither. "Anonymous due to me not wanting to be stalked by South African nationalists"? Really? More likely a blocked sock. And no, I'm not South African, nor employed by any one connected with any of the companies or governments involved with this product. BilCat (talk) 18:41, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I suspect that there is a degree of 'lost cause' type nostalgia here, which can be a problem with coverage of topics related to the Apartheid-era South African military in a range of sources, but the larger issue with any problems is that a lot of the sourcing on this design likely has its roots in the era when Denel was aggressively marketing it for export (it put a lot of effort into trying to sell it to Australia, for instance). Nick-D (talk) 22:16, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

text: Yip and there it is. That defensiveness. Clearly an emotional topic! I did not say the claims were IN the article. Perhaps read slowly before getting so upset? Maybe because you are not South African, you are unaware of all the myths and legends that get spread (AGAIN - NOT HERE - because they are carefully and repeatedly removed from this and other related articles). Why do you think that bizarre aside bit about the S-52's inverted flight in 1949 was added by someone? It is because of nationalists recently making ridiculous claims about apartheid SA's 'accomplishments'. Clearly this helicopter had a bigger propaganda and social impact than a market or battlefield one. Thanks for weighing in (as a non-South African) on South African social issues, SA nationalism and the propaganda around apartheid's flagship 'defence' program. It is easy to take you seriously LOL. Anonymous due to me not wanting to be stalked by South African nationalists.156.155.217.19 (talk) 10:18, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Myths and legends