Talk:Soul Reaper (Bleach)

message: Does anyone else think that the 'appearance' modification part of this article is pointless and superfluous? I think it's enough that modifications appear in individual character pages already. But if no one objects, I'll probably remove the section and instead make a 'uniforms and insignia' section, which will have information about uniform modification (but not other appearance traits). -- Ynhockey 06:13, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Appearance

message: It seems, on casual inspection, that this article, as well as the main Bleach article, have very inconsistent use of italics as respect to romaji romanization.  The word shinigami is one perfect example, as well as Onmitsukidō.  I certainly don't have time to fix these inconsistencies, but future edits should be aware of them.  Italics should be used for any non-English word (though this may be a relatively large number).   fruitofwisdom 05:54, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We (the editors who frequently edit Bleach articles) agreed to use some terminology as if it were English, owing to the fact that no one would understand the English terminology if it were used. A prime example is shinigami. Therefore, it should not be italicized. Some terms however, which are written in rōmaji on a one-time basis, like onmitsukidō, will be italicized. If you find an instance where they're not, please change. Not on terms that are never written in English though (e.g. shinigami). -- Ynhockey 13:46, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

text: I agree with the one-time italics decision and the use of romanized words.  Especially where translation is difficult or questionable, or where the romanized Japanese is used with similar frequency to any translation, I think this is the best alternative.  I would, however, like to suggest that all words that fall into this italics rule be given their own individual articles if at all possible.  Decentralizing the topic somewhat would help with the in-universe perspective issue, as well as making individual concepts presented in Japanese more accessible to readers who aren't as familiar with the language or the details of the series. -- Yakaji 10:28, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Italics

message: I think the older captains have the white coats with sleeves and the newer ones don't. They probably changed between 200 to 150 years ago. Kurotsuchi probably inherited Kisuke's coat 200 years ago, so Kurotsuchi has sleeves, but when Byakuya becomes captain he does not have sleeves. Hitsugaya, the youngest, does not have sleeves and Ukitake, much older, does. Soi Fong became a captain after Kisuke left, and her white coat has no sleeves. Kenpachi probably ripped (he might have cut off the arms) the sleeves off the former 11th captain's coat.
:That is possible, but we don't have proof. Maybe there is mention in the databook though, haven't read it all. If you can provide a source, the information can be included. Also, please sign your name. --  Ynhockey (Talk) 11:11, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, Kenpachi's coat was that of the captain he killed to become a shinigami and captain. It wasn't issued to him, and it's pretty safe to assume he prolly ripped off the sleeves. In flashbacks he doesn't EVER wear sleeves, they're all ripped off.--Cranial Toy 01:53, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

text: The anime is inconsistent concerning Tosen's sleeves. In a few scenes, he has them, but in most appearnaces, he does not. The manga, however, always portrayed Tosen with sleeves. Lore aura 01:04, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sleeves 

message: I think the picture of Gin that's being used to show the captain's robes should be changed. He's missing a sleeve because of the fight with Hitsugaya and he's still got the ice on his arm. I'll scout around for a better one. -- Cwesk 20:14, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree it's not perfect, but I have a hard time finding one where the shinigami uniform is clearly visible from behind, with the number and all (and where hair doesn't harm the picture). Maybe I didn't look hard enough though. --  Ynhockey (Talk) 10:21, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well... I have a few choices, though each is faulty in its own way.  There's a picture with Byakuya, full body from behind, but his hair obscures the collar, and a picture of Aizen, but the lower half of his legs are cut off.  This one of Kenpachi has the same problem as Aizen's.  There's a shot of Komamura that has everything, but isn't exactly high-quality.  It also obscures the collar with his helmet and such.  Soi Fong is a posibility, but it's even worse than Komamura in quality.  Ah, well, that's all I have so far, I'll update if I can find anything better.Mekryd 14:00, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I found one from the manga of Aizen and Gin that would probably work well. I don't have any editing programs on this computer at the moment, so it'd be good if someone else could crop it. I dunno if it'd be better to keep it with both Aizen and Gin, or just Gin. I'm just linking it to Imageshack, so here: http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/7895/170016jx.jpg -- Cwesk 17:00, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That image is good, but I'm not sure it would qualify as fair use. --  Ynhockey (Talk) 17:46, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not qualify as fair use? How so? It's a solid image to me. --Chemicalist 22:54, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's taken directly (including size) from the manga. I think fair use only allows promotional pics as long as they are not high-quality. --  Ynhockey (Talk) 23:17, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not very hard to edit and size it down: http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/3113/ginback1sz.jpg --ACDragonMaster 04:33, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gin pic 

message: Shouldn't this page have a spoiler warning if the list of captains and lieutenants is going to list that trio as "former"?  Or alternatively, why not just omit that and leave such spoilery info to the characters' individual pages? --ACDragonMaster 17:55, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The article already has a spoiler warning. There is also a lot of info there which is much more 'spoilery' (i.e. from newer manga chapters) than the ending of the Soul Society arc. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 11:54, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spoilers? 

message: I've nominated this article in WP:GAN. I think one the most well-written and comprehensive Bleach-related articles, and has a sufficient amount of illustrations and sources. If anyone decides to reject this as a good article, please state the reasons here so that the frequent Bleach article editors may fix the article and re-nom it sometime in the future. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 15:10, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Good article nominee

message: Note: This article has a small number of in-line citations for an article of its size and subject content. Currently it would not pass criteria 2b.
Members of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles are in the process of doing a re-review of current Good Article listings to ensure compliance with the standards of the Good Article Criteria. (Discussion of the changes and re-review can be found here). A significant change to the GA criteria is the mandatory use of some sort of in-line citation (In accordance to WP:CITE) to be used in order for an article to pass the verification and reference criteria. It is recommended that the article's editors take a look at the inclusion of in-line citations as well as how the article stacks up against the rest of the Good Article criteria. GA reviewers will give you at least a week's time from the date of this notice to work on the in-line citations before doing a full re-review and deciding if the article still merits being considered a Good Article or would need to be de-listed. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact us on the Good Article project talk page or you may contact me personally. On behalf of the Good Articles Project, I want to thank you for all the time and effort that you have put into working on this article and improving the overall quality of the Wikipedia project. Agne 04:49, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the warning. We'll do something about it... --tjstrf 05:00, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortunently, Inline citations probably won't be what gets this article, a WP:GA/R disputes entry has been open on this article, and currently its 4 to 0 in favor of delisting, primarily because the article is much too "in-universe", violating WP:FICTION. It's almost been a week, but anyone is free to chime in, otherwise, the dispute will probably be closed and the article will be delisted soon. Homestarmy 02:31, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well... I'm not sure exactly how we're supposed to fix that. I suppose the biggest problem is that, with the anime only on episode 3 or so, most of the sources we could cite have been in Japanese or the unreliable bloggish types. --tjstrf 03:02, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The exact guideline is here: Wikipedia:Manual of Style (writing about fiction) Homestarmy 21:31, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA Re-Review and In-line citations 

message: This is the only kind of section I can think of that would be out-of-universe, and we should write it to preserve this as a good article. There should be information about shinigami-related cosplaying and merchandising, at least, but feel free to come up with more ideas. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 11:26, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Shinigami impersonations in real life

message: Shouldn't the Cell Phone be included here?
:Do all Shinigami us the cell phones or is it just Rukia? (Duane543 04:52, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes the hell moth should probably be included. Feel free to do so. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 17:10, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mission aids? 

message: Heres what killed the GA for this article:
* Violation of Criteria 1a. The lead seems to me more in tune to say, Otaku rather than a non-anime watching person. Plus, the lead is too small, and doesn't involve a basic synopsis of the page itself. I suggest a complete rewrite to at least give the lead some meat and also try and get it abit more general than fancruft.
* Violation of Criteria 1d. I still feel that some of the technical terms should be abit more in depth. 
* Violation of Criteria 2a-d. Many Anime articles get killed right here, because they fail to properly use references or don't have enough of them to make it seem that it doesn't look like fancruft a/or original research. This is what's killing other anime articles from becoming GA nods, like Cowboy Bebop. A collaboration failed to get many reference marks into CB, and when I suggested in the nomination that i'd try and find my Tokyopop CB guides, another editor lambasted me for even using them as sources. Tokyopop's guides are at least better than fansites, because Tokyopop has to stake their reputation on publishing those guides, and if they get something wrong, it could cost them sales.
Those are the sticking points. Discuss. --293.xx.xxx.xx 09:33, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You just mean a rewrite of the lead, correct?  At first I read that as rewriting the whole article.  I can't really imagine that there's much to discuss, though.  You told us what's wrong and now we go fix it!--Anaraug 10:12, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

text: For the lead -- it is too small, but making it meatier seems to be making it more otaku, as well.  Would it be appropriate to have the lead start out with a general description of the actual concept of shinigami from Japanese culture, and then explain how shinigami in bleach fill this role by yada yada yada?--Anaraug 11:04, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Delisted Good Article Nomination 

message: Since this is the ENGLISH Wikipedia, shouldn't we change the name of this page? -Unknownwarrior33 02:46, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No. --tjstrf talk 02:48, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for that outstanding contribution.  I'm looking for a serious discussion, not responses that are a step away from vandalism. -Unknownwarrior33 02:59, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You're welcome. We already decided this some time ago on the main Talk:Bleach (manga) pages and it would need to be discussed there if you believe we should reconsider it. --tjstrf talk 03:11, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Shinigami it's a keyword. It shouldn't be translated in english, so as we don't translate Zanpakuto or Hueco Mundo. They aren't foreign words, they are just keywords. And should be accepted as they are. Lord Air 05:53, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name 

message: I'm not sure who edited the insignia table to change the Division 10 daffodil (narcissus, etc.) to an anemone, but if you merely look at the picture the word is linked to, compared to the graphic and to the flower in the poster (see the scans posted here: http://community.livejournal.com/renji_rukia/80605.html, http://img285.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hitsuflowerposterhb7.jpg, http://img285.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ranflowerposter1vz7.jpg) it hardly resembles an anemone.  I'm not changing the text back because it hints of edit-war, but I had to point out the irrationality of the change.
Corgi 07:38, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Division insignia 

message: Shouldn't the existence of organizations such as the Shinigami Women Association and the nobility be mentioned here? A good portion (namely most of the female shinigami articles) of the character articles mention either of them. Sephiroth BCR 17:47, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that such a section should be made, although it should be under another section (at least) titled something like 'Official shinigami organizations'. In other words, it shouldn't be a ==Sub-heading== on its own. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 18:46, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Additions 

message: This article has a header under the "Four Methods of Combat". I recently addressed the issue of what was formerly called 'Foot Combat' (which is incorrect; see the 'Foot Combat' header for more information). However, upon attempting to edit this area, I found that the entire section that is under could now be considered incorrect.
Aizen, in that chapter, says that there are 'Four areas that a shinigami can improve upon' he does not say that they are four methods of combat. For instance, Kidou may not be directly combat (there are those who believe that Kidou has a healing aspect to it, since it is the 'magic' of Bleach's universe). Additionally, Hohou itself isn't combat at all; it's one's agility, speed, and is the start of one's mastery of shunpo.
I propose that we change that header to 'Four Skills of Shinigami' or something similar, due to the now-incorrect nature of the header's title. Kishyotai 15:12, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Your theory is interesting, however, there's no canonical proof to these claims. It clearly says both in the manga (175-09) and anime (ep. 61) that these are actually 4 forms of combat, not just 'four areas that a shinigami can improve upon'. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 18:52, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Four Methods of Combat" 

message: Is it known whether all gigais are specially made to look like the shinigami it's given to, or do they just change appearance according to the shinigami? It would appear that they're specially made, and who wears them had no baring on it's appearance, but I'd like to be sure.--Cranial Toy 01:57, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good question, I think its like they have it specially made. I'm not sure though. Note the Komamura says he has a "special gigai" for visiting the real world, and his lieutenent thought it was a dog gigai. However I don't remember a source in the manga, so we can't be entirely sure.--Hanaichi 02:08, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

text: No, they don't. Ichigo's just inept when it comes to controlling his power. Urahara isn't, and and wouldn't affect humans even if he was around them constantly. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 09:51, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Gigai

message: Somewhere within the article it is stated that shinigami receive salaries. I do not believe this is true seeing as there are bounties on the heads of hollows. Any insight?Ph15h 09:42, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Eh, I'm not sure about this one. But logically, if killing hollows are the only way to earn cash (kan), the shinigami wouldn't make much of a living. I think it was said that Renji's glasses cost half of  his salary, showing that shinigami do get salaries.--Hanaichi 10:15, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Salaries

message: Is it safe to say that the second division deals directly with the Special forces? Seeing as both Yoruichi and the current captain have both been heads of the special forces. Ph15h 09:42, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nope, thats speculation. Look at the vice, Omeada. He doesn't seem to be connected to the special forces in anyway. Yes, we known Yoruichi was the ex-head of the special forces, but there is nowhere that says she was the 2nd division captain at that time.--Hanaichi 10:13, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: 2nd Division

message: Well, the main reason for deletion is lack of "out-of-universe" material.  Well, it's time to get some of that. KyuuA4 05:28, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well the result was keep anyway. Sasuke9031 (talk) 21:07, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's irrelevant. It's still an issue. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 23:29, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sorry.  I must not have worded myself correctly.  What I meant to say was, the issue is still there, just no longer in the scope of an AfD.  However if we don't clean this up, it may becoe an AfD again. Sasuke9031 (talk) 08:51, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Out of Universe Challenge 

message: The opening paragraph says so, but the Shinigami article proper seems to claim otherwise.  As far as I can tell Shinigami are a cultural import, a novelty adapted from the Grim Reaper.
Which, incidentally, explains why so many fictional works use the concept in so many variations - there is no strong cultural tradition to tie their hands.  Shinigami in Death Note, for instance, are nothing like those of Bleach, other than both groups living in their own world and having some capability of cross over to Earth.  That seems to me to be a strong hint that Shinigami are pretty much a blank slate as concepts go. Luis Dantas (talk) 15:49, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well you can always Be Bold Bushido Brown (talk) 23:33, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Are Shinigami a Japanese belief? 

message: Where is it said that the Shinigami Academy isn't under the Jurisdiction of Chamber 46? Bushido Brown (talk) 23:37, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: 46 Chambers(of Shaolin)

message: Is the description of the Sōkyoku's power in Aizen's letter to Momo actually true? Everything else in it was a lie, so why should we assume Aizen was telling the truth about Sōkyoku? 76.123.216.96 (talk) 07:07, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: He really had nothing to gain by lying about its power, and it seems like it would be common knowledge in Soul Society. Until proven false (as was the case with the rest of the letter) it will be regarded as fact. ~SnapperTo 18:11, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Sōkyoku

message: While it isn't in the manga, Ran'Tao should be listed under former captains with a notation that this is only true for the anime. As we aren't dividing bleach anime and manga into two separate sections,Jinnai (talk) 09:03, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Ahem, when does it ever say Ran'Tao is a former captain? She was just incharge of the Bount group, I don't recall her ever saying she was captain.--Hanaichi 09:17, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed, but you can look at her garment in sceenshots. I will have to do a search again, but it is clearly a captain's unform during the flashbacks. You're right, it doesn't outright say it, but it doesn't need to if you can use your eyes.Jinnai (talk) 04:33, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Most head researchers wear a captain look a like outfit in the 12th division. Take Mayuri's surbordinates for an example, it looks like a captain haori but has no symbol on it.--Hanaichi 09:55, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ran'Tao 

message: Does this include characters? Franchises, I guess, but not 100% certain if it applies for that. Thoughts? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 17:37, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[:Category:2001 introductions]] 

message: There're some differences between the insignia of English version and of Japanese version. In Japanese version;
*The 2nd division- 翁草 okinagusa, A kind of buttercup with a purple flower (Pulsatilla cernua)
*The 3rd division- Pot marigold (Calendula officinalis. cf. Marigold, Tagetes patula)
*The 4th division- 竜胆 rindō, Gentian (Gentiana scabra var. buergeri)
*The 5th division- 馬酔木 asebi or ashibi, Japanese andromeda (Pieris japonica)
*The 9th division- Poppy(especially white)
*The 13th division- Snowdrop
I'm sorry to have troubled you with my poor English.--61.203.135.104 (talk) 08:33, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Difference in insignia 

message: An edit I made to the uniforms (specifically, captain sleeves) section was undone because of a lack of source (which is bs, because the source is the OVA). I can provide a screencap, but I don't think it's viable to list a screencap as a source.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.60.12.138 (talk) 02:40, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think there was another reason for reverting your edit. You should ask User:The Rogue Penguin his reasoning on User talk:The Rogue Penguin. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 06:16, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

text: I reverted it because that one scene proves nothing. We were told nothing about how long they were captains, only that they died. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 21:51, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adding a screenshot as a source? 

message: Well, we can all guess the Royal Guard looks over the King? Pretty crazy >< Weareweare (talk) 19:53, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This has actually been revealed a very long time ago in the SOULs databook. The news is that it's called 'division zero', although we need to see the RAW to get precise details. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 20:11, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Royal Guard(Zero Division) 

message: OMG, it does appear that Yoruichi was the 2nd Division captain. However, I'd wait for the RAW to insert this information into the articles. So much for the theory that the special forces are on the same level as Gotei 13. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 20:30, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed, Kubo you sneaky bastard, why must you fuck with our worldview so? Then again, it's probably just like Yamamoto, holding one seat by virtue of holding another. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 20:51, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yoruichi 

message: Does anyone else see that the Special Forces are actually Soul Society's military police? They catch deserters and criminals, make arrests, and have a prison unit. This is true for most military police units in world armies. Should anything be added about that? -- Ynhockey (Talk) 12:33, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm afriad that might come close to OR...--Hanaichi 12:39, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Obvious parallels are not OR, although some users do request refs for them if they are controversial (read: not so obvious). I would wait to see the functions of the 2nd, 4th and 5th division to make a detailed explanation, but I think we currently have enough information to have a simple parallel between the Special Forces and military police forces around the world. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 13:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Special forces 

message: This page has been moved per consensus here. Any concerns should be brought up on this talk page, WT:BLEACH, or at the appointed discussion. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 18:15, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page moved