Talk:Pit latrine

message: What is the difference between a pit toilet and a cesspool?   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.15.33.151 (talk) 15:23, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Question

message: I removed The Andy Gump company calls these tank trucks and their associated sump pumping equipment by the alliterative name, the Gump Dump Sump Pump.  Regardless of the name, there are numerous Licensed waste hauling companies providing such service in areas where it is needed.  I assumed this was a reference to Forest Gump.  In any case, it doesn't belong here.  If someone cares enough about it, it should be moved to a section.  "Pit Toilets in Fiction", anyone? --Mdwyer 01:04, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Comment

message: This article and outhouse appear to be essentially the same thing. Why do these two separate articles exist? It doesn't really matter which title is primarily used for the topic, but they should be merged into one article. DMahalko (talk) 10:36, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The English expression Outhouse, as the article also quite well explains, is more than just a pit toilet. It was a detached house, that was used for multiple purposes, usually stable, toilet and storage. Therefore this character should be explained in an own article. The parts that pertain to a pit toilet only should of course be explained in detail in that article.--Wuselig (talk) 14:01, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

text: Oppose Outhouse and pit toilet are completly different things! An outhouse is a building for a start. 87.194.208.119 (talk) 20:30, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal 

message: This image and caption were removed with the reason "pejorative picture". It illustrates a common structure and job in Tanzania. The term "frogman" is in fact the polite form used primarily in literature on the topic, according to this. I disagree that it's pejorative, and am restoring the image, with caption, and adding that citation. Please weigh with an opinion if you think it should be kept or removed, with reason if favoring removal. 
WP:INAPPROPRIATE, for background, includes among inappropriate content "Text that is intended to attack or disparage the subject. For example, if something derogatory is found in an article about a person using a pejorative term against that person's ethnicity, it shall be promptly removed."
--Agyle (talk) 14:36, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: there is nothing 'pejorative'. such occupations were very common in the past. I will try to find some info about historical russian occupation called 'zolotar' , literally 'goldman' (a hint on something yellow in the  pit :-).  nothing surprizing somewhere it still exists. - Altenmann >t 16:35, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pejorative image removal? (Pit toilet being manually emptied) 

message: It is a pity that this incorrect information is spread over internet with the help of wikipedia mirrors and spin-offs. Somebody obviously used machine translation from Estonian and added own speculation. In fact, this humorous slang term is a parody of the Soviet cliche "Following Stalin's (foot)steps" . After Soviet Army left Baltic states, their barracks attracted attention of wide public. these barracks had industrially manufactured removable steel pit covers, which had a funnel-shape hole and two platforms (not "pits") for feet with corrugated anti-slip surface. It would be interesting to find a photo or serious description. They were used elsewhere, e.g. at small railway stations with little infrastructure. I doubt the term had any usage outside Estonian. - Altenmann >t 16:52, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  stalin's footprints 

message: I would be inclinded to provide the two different spellings in the article at least in the beginning if not several times. Or what is Wikipedia's convention in this regard? EvM-Susana (talk) 20:01, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: We just provide one spelling and the first time we use it we link it. The article linked to than provides two spellings. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 09:59, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  How do we deal with the British spelling faeces versus the American spelling of feces? 

message: I would like to delete the two photos that are currently the last two: A night soil man, known in his country as a frogman,[14] manually removing the waste from a permanent concrete-lined pit toilet in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania. - And also the photo from Thailand.
Both of them are not typical for pit latrines. A fully lined pit latrine is not really a pit latrine. And the second one with the tanker is not ideal because it doesn't show the hose used to empty it. I have much better ones. Or they would be better off on a new page on faecal sludge management which would include all the issues around faecal sludge emptying, treatment and reuse.
EvM-Susana (talk) 16:40, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes sure. Feel free to switch them up. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 13:19, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  OK, I have exchanged two of the photos now. The one from Haiti is also not great, might replace that, too. Am thinking more and more that we will need to create a page specifically for faecal sludge management. Can work with the septage page at first and then take it from there. EvM-Susana (talk) 23:03, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Selecting other photos, do you mind if I delete the last two? 

message: We are now singling out deaths from diarrhea here but the health impacts from lack of sanitation are so much more than that. Apart from the deaths, the diarrhoea and helminth infections also lead to malnutrition and hence to less resistance against other diseases. Also cognitive development is slowed - irreversibly! I have read all that stuff in various publications, could dig it up and include it, or perhaps you have it at your fingertips already. Question is whether it should go into the pit latrine page or into the page on sanitation or if there should be a separate Wikipedia article on health impacts from lack of sanitation (or maybe it is already covered elsewhere on the health related pages?)? So the question is how much detail regarding health impacts to go into for the pit latrine page and perhaps rather refer to the other pages and add the content there?
The page on sustainable sanitation - which I still need to work on - mentions the figure the 2.2 million annual deaths (mostly children under the age of 5) caused mainly by sanitation-related diseases and poor hygienic conditions.
EvM-Susana (talk) 20:52, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Lets put it in the article on sanitation for starters. The number of deaths from diarrhea has decreased from the use of oral rehydration solution. We could also of course add more here when it specifically mentions open defecation / pit toilets Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 04:39, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Health impacts from lack of sanitation on pit latrine page or on sanitation page or both? 

message: This sentence has no reference: As a general guideline, the World Health Organization recommends that pit latrines are built about 6 meters (6.6 yards) from the house, at least 30 meters (32.8 yards) from water sources, and at least 2 meters (2.2 yards) above the water table when it is at its highest
I am going to replace it with one that has a reference. I will also add a bit more detail here because in reality it is more complex than this. 
Do we need to give units in both metric and imperial? I would like to stick to just metric? EvM-Susana (talk) 08:41, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: If you read the text you will notice that there is hidden refs. . We do this when a single ref supports a bunch of sentences in a row. We have a hidden ref behind each sentence until the last. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 10:12, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Issue about distance of pit latrine to well 

message: Have readded it with the ref. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 10:12, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  distance from the house is quite irrelevant because it is normally governed in any case by the size of the plot that people have - as the latrine is likely to be smelly, people usually put it in the far corner of their property.... Also, this reference is not a good reference: http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/hygiene/emergencies/fs3_4.pdf You see that it is a pdf file copied from some larger document. If anything, the larger document should be used. It is not even clear from which year this reference is. Our understanding of pit latrines has changed over time so it's important to use an up to date reference. You see also from the title that that one was for use in emergency settings. I can look for another reference (probably a publication by WEDC in the UK would have it) but as I said distance from the house is largely irrelevant and I can't remember seeing this mentioned in our standard publications on pit latrines. EvM-Susana (talk) 10:37, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: It is this WHO document from 1996  They do have some nice diagrams. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 11:08, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  OK, then the original source (website) should be cited. But those diagrams are not nice! They look like from the 1950s and copied many times over... I will look for more up to date things on the WEDC website, they have good stuff. I will have to see if I find something about distance to the house but I am quite sure that such a recommendation is no longer valid, it is now 20 years since that WHO document came out, we have moved on a bit. :-) EvM-Susana (talk) 11:50, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes agree a little old. I do like the diagrams of pouring the slab. I can imagine building on based on that. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 12:02, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Distance from house

message: Hey E which do you think is easier to understand? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 23:11, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  definetely pathogens is easier to understand. In sanitation we always just talk of "pathogens" as we don't care which organism it is. Some people (Americans?) might prefer "germs"? One could also say "disease causing microorganisms (pathogens or germs)". As the word is hpyerlinked, people can easily find the definition if they are unsure. But "bacteria, viruses and parasites" is awkward to read. Also bacteria can be the "good guys" - not all bacteria are pathogens. In wastewater treatment and the soil, bacteria are the very good guys! EvM-Susana (talk) 08:39, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes good points. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 10:58, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Pathogens versus "bacteria, viruses, and parasites"

message: I have added information about the shallow trench latrine (could also add more information about the deep trench latrine), but the more I think about it, the more I think it doesn't belong on the pit latrine page. And neither does the slit-trench latrine. I would say they should be moved to the page on latrines (and a cross-reference be made in both directions). Such latrines are not "pit latrines" as they have no pit. A trench is different to a pit.
Also we are lacking a reference for the slit-trench latrine. I have never heard about them. Also it seems very difficult if not impossible to dig a trench that is 1-2 m deep but so narrow that a user can put a leg on either side. You would need reinforcement, otherwise it could easily collapse. This would be rather dangerous, actually. A child could fall in! I doubt that they should really be so deep which is why I would like to see a source for this or otherwise delete it. EvM-Susana (talk) 20:36, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes if you still unreffed wrong stuff feel free to remove. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 22:56, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  OK, I have moved that now to the page on latrines. The cat hole thing is also a bit doubtful for the pit latrine page, but OK, I have left it in (but moved it down in the list to reduce its emphasis). EvM-Susana (talk) 10:18, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move the information on slit trench and shallow trench latrine rather to the latrine article? 

message: This section on "advvanced designs" makes little sense to me. Might be an overhung from a very early version of the article. I think we no longer need it and should delete it (the information contained in there is already available elsewhere in the article now):
'Advanced designs
An advanced pit latrine is more complex forms, or higher capacity forms - commonly associated with outhouses though sometimes used underneath a house, or as a central collection area for several outhouses or other waste collection arrangements - the pit will be larger, and covered with a supporting structure. This structure may be simply a metal plate, or board floor - with a hole over which the user positions themselves during use. A provision for seating is often placed above a pit toilet, this may be a simple hole in a board surface at sitting height. In bitter cold Arctic climates, honey buckets are used inside the home and carried to such covered pits outside.' 
Thoughts? EvM-Susana (talk) 00:24, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure unreffed. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 01:29, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  OK, I deleted this section now after reusing one sentence fragment in the summary above which was quite good ("with a hole over which the user positions themselves during use") EvM-Susana (talk) 08:08, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Move that bit down to keep the sentence shorter and simplier. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 01:52, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  Is that part deleted or moved; it seems to be deleted: "over which the user positions themselves during use". I searched the entire article but it seems to be gone. I think it was a useful piece of information because some people might be confused about the two holes: the large hole in the ground and the small "drop hole" over which one has to squat or sit. You can never be too careful to explain things and not assume that people will understand, so I like to spell things out as much as possible... EvM-Susana (talk) 10:44, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Reworded to "The user positions themselves over over the small drop hole during use" Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 00:32, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section on "advanced designs" to be removed? 

message: There is an open access journal paper that we could cite in a new section on history of pit latrines: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4743102/ I haven't got time at the moment but will get back to it at some stage, or perhaps someone else has time to look through this and utilise this. EMsmile (talk) 04:18, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 15:05, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: A reference to cite for a new section on history

message: If we want to have the first sentence shorter then I wonder if we could take out "pit toilet" from the first sentence (and possibly also "long drop"). As far as I can see the term "pit toilet" is really very rarely used and long drop might be more of a euphemism. I know I added it in the first place but my thought was to either have several synonyms or none (we have synonyms now in that info box, too). What do others think? EMsmile (talk) 14:39, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  First sentence synonyms

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion