Talk:Publication history of Marvel Comics crossover events

message: This list was moved from the Marvel Universe page because the article had gotten too long. Note it was originally in the form of a table but I changed the format to allow more detail to be added to the events. Also note this page will only cover events that happened after Fantastic Four #1 (the "Modern Era" of the Marvel Universe.) Other events should be added to the Timeline of the Marvel Universe instead. Wilfredo Martinez 02:57, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: moved

message: We need a working definition of "major event", with regard to this article and Major events of the DC Universe. My definition is that a major event affects the continuity of more than one character, team, or series. "Planet Hulk" affects the Incredible Hulk, so it is not a major event. "Civil War" affects everyone on American soil, and "Annihilation" affects everyone, so they are. My defintion does not affect certain items on this list, such as "The Night Gwen Stacy Died", which has been shown to affect characters other than Spider-Man. --Chris Griswold  (☎☓) 18:52, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree.  A story(line) is major if it is a landmark in the company's publishing history or is the focus of significant marketing and/or press. -- StAkAr Karnak 19:28, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

text: You're correct as long as we're talking about the publishing history of a company; but here we're talking about the continuity of a fictional universe. Otherwise we would have to add things such as the publication of Epic Comics or the Marvel/DC crossovers; those belong in other articles. I suggest we open this to discussion in the Wikicomics Notice Board until the matter is settled. -Wilfredo Martinez 20:48, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  As I stated on WP:CMC's talk page, a story is only "major" for ourselves as editors if a reputable secondary source deems it so.  Anything else is POV or original research. --NewtΨΦ 01:38, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree. Therefore I added the "Unreferenced"-Template to encourage authors to cite such sources. If no sources saying the event is "major", the event is to be removed from this article. --Martin de la Iglesia 07:28, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Working definition 

message: How about including the Psi Wars? Although it was a battle between Psylocke and Shadow King only, it also affected all psi-sensitive characters throughout the Marvel universe. Just a thought...
Affected, how? Was it a permanent (which
I had started to make changes on this page yesterday, adding other events and making the chronology more precise but everything was removed. So bad...
Avengers Children's Crusade (Focusing on the Young Avengers, but with Doc Doom, Scarlet Witch, the Xtinction team from Uncanny X-Men and the Avengers all feature into the story) may be worth including. It featured the return of Scarlet Witch to active player in the main universe. Additionally, Avengers X-Sanction may need a nod as a precursor and tie-in/lead off of Avengers Vs X-Men.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.104.57.160 (talk) 05:27, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggestions? 

message: In the definition of event, I think that duration can be a factor. This can be seen in the events I include. They are not all famous and several of them happen behind the scenes for months before being resolved in a main storyline but they crossed over at least two series. Even though by Contest of Champions/Secret Wars standard, they don't seem like events in the modern sense they were at the time major crossovers and the forerunners of modern events.
The Kree-Skrull War goes from Avengers 89 to 97, so this is not just oct 71 to Feb 72. The Inhumans feature in Amazing Adventures crossovers with it.
A big omission is the Thanos War. This ran in Captain Marvel, Daredevil, Avengers, Marvel Feature 11 and 12, Iron Man in 1973-74.
Several of Steve Englehart storylines could qualify: Avengers/Defenders War; Celestial Madonna; Secret Empire (Captain America, X-Men, Beast in Amazing Adventures), There is the Avengers (154-156) story that crossed over with Super-Villain Team-Up 8-10. 
There was also the Mister Kline storyline that involved Iron Man and Daredevil over many months (DD 78-84, IM 41-45, Sub-Mariner 42, 1971)
The Villains War in Iron Man involved many villains (not just Iron Man villains) and lasted more than one year (IM 69-81, 1974-75)
There was the Conspiration storyline (mostly in Captain America and Hulk from 1977 to 1979 but also Machine Man)
The death of Gwen Stacy is not a major event of the Marvel Universe. It is a major event of Spider-Man as well as a major event of the history of comics.
There was a sub-plot crossing over several Marvel titles involving three mysterious figures from 1974 to 1979, one of them was revealed to be Tyrannus in Incredible Hulk in the conclusion to the story. (this had to do with earthquakes) (MTU 15,19,20,26,28; Uncanny X-Men 119, Hulk 209, 238-243)
In the eighties, there was a huge crossover with winter time (casket of ancient winters) and Dire Wraiths (from Rom). There was snow in all Marvel Comics and the Dire Wraiths appeared in X-Men and Fantastic Four.
:Agreed, Casket of Ancient Winters should be listed, as should the Wraith War. Both events, more or less simultaineously, crossed into the bulk of comics published then.--Nickpheas (talk) 09:58, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  70's event 

message: Wouldn't this article be more helpful if much more helpful if (like Major events of the DC Universe) its list of "major events" was more limited to only the absolute biggest events of the Marvel U.--Darknus823 (talk) 05:28, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Limit the number of events

message: I took out the "Post Secret Invasion" listing, because there is currently no information about/for one. While it is highly likely that there will be something in regards to the fallout, it doesn't really need to be listed under "major events", just like "The Initiative" isn't listed as a post-Civil War "event".  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.226.28.31 (talk) 08:01, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Post-SI event 

message: I say we leave the "new events" off this page until they have enough information to get a page of their own. Then we just link to it like everything else here. MaxMillions (talk) 17:46, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Events 

message: what about the major events in alternative universes, like Ultimat universe, and MC2  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.210.25.252 (talk) 00:26, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  other universes 

message: We categorise these under storylines and describe them as storylines as the actual "event" is in the story. So should this really be "Major storylines of the Marvel Universe"? It avoids any in-universe angle to it, as recommended by WP:WAF. Of course, the content also needs to be re-written in an out-of-universe style but it is a start. (Emperor (talk) 02:23, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: "Event" is not necessarily an in-universe term, since Marvel uses it in ads and press releases etc. It's simply the publisher's term for a major crossover storyline. Nevertheless, it may be true that the style of this article is too much in-universe and needs rewriting. --Martin de la Iglesia (talk) 22:47, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name 

message: As it stands, the 2000s, a decade which has seen comics sales slip to new lows and in which Marvel superheroes have become an increasingly niche interest, has almost twice as many "major events" as the 1960s, when the bulk of the Marvel Universe was established. This seems problematic. Is an event like Infinity Abyss or Cypher really a major event in the Marvel Universe? Does every single iteration of the Avengers over five years really deserve to be counted as a separate major event? Phil Sandifer (talk) 23:27, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Huge presentist bias

message: Who is deciding what is a major event? What reliable third party sources are providing the criteria we are using here? --Cameron Scott (talk) 11:33, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: No sources are cited, so it's OK if you want to delete "events" that you don't consider "major".--Martin de la Iglesia (talk) 18:25, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Original research 

message: Some of the publication dates here are inaccurate - I'm trying to fix these as I do the referencing.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sutekh666 (talk • contribs) 11:45, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Incorrect dates and Referencing

message: *Mystique's attempted assassination wasn't just a major point in the comic book, but also in the high rated X-men cartoon as well.  Days of Future Past was a high selling often reviewed and rather notable story about this.  The senator later was featured through the X comics, remembering the X-men had saved him.  First time we were shown the nightmare future with mutant survivors kept in camps, and most dead.
:My mistake.  That is something else, a different entry already on the list.  In this one long running support characters died, plus an X-men who has been dead too many times for any to take seriously.  Dream Focus 21:22, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  the ones I added back in and why 

message: This article has uncited sources.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.255.42.105 (talk) 00:39, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nomination for Deletion 

message: The Kingpin's obsession with Daredevil caused many notable stories to take place in that one comic book.  The Kingpin has also featured heavily throughout the Marvel universe.  But this isn't the first time he appeared.  I don't read Daredevil, so can't comment on how important the first meeting was.  Was the obsession he had for defeating Daredevil, felt in other comic books?  Anyone know? I know the obsession was mentioned in Spider-man comics, that explained for his ruin at one point.  Just bringing it up so something isn't eliminated by mistake.  Dream Focus 21:26, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Daredevil and the Kingpin 

message: I was already a bit concerned about including events like "Captain America reborn" that are still unfolding, but I have real misgivings about including events like "Siege" (2010) that have yet to occur. We have only Marvel's promo material to assess how important such events might be. Sutekh666 (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 12:08, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Listing events that have not yet occurred

message: "List of" should be before the title, of course.  It can't just be a list of events, since that would include every single thing.  So, should the name be List of notable events of the Marvel universe, or List of major events in the Marvel universe?  And should universe be capitalized as it is now?  Dream Focus 16:18, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  name change discussion 

message: Listing what is going to happen next year seems rather odd.  Even if someone slipped up and gave away events that were going to happen, how notable will they be?  It can't be a notable event, until it actually happens.  I'm removing all the 2010 things for now, since its only October of 2009.  Dream Focus 01:03, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that they probably shouldn't be on the page right now, but Marvel is already hyping up their early 2010 events.  These are not leaks, but at the same time even with the hype we have no idea how big they will be. Rowdyoctopus (talk) 14:51, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

text: I'm afraid it can be a "notable" event, because if Marvel decides to make it a "major" event, it will be perceived as such (at least by the loose standards of this article). And if computer vaporware can be relevant for Wikipedia (there's rules for that in the German WP), why can't forthcoming publications be. --Martin de la Iglesia (talk) 18:45, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Every single thing they do, they hype constantly these days.  Yeah, we do need some clear set standards.  And someone changed the article name to List of events of the Marvel Universe, so I guess that includes basically anything at all now.  Dream Focus 18:49, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Events that haven't happened yet 

message: One group of avengers is actually called that!  I checked the Marvel.com site to confirm it.  In the comic book they were still called Avengers, or New Avengers, as their official title, so that's what should be in this article.  Just like they call Spider-man "webhead", the human Torch "matchstick", Captain America "wingnut", and other things, that's fine in the comics, but you need to use their official names in an article like this.  I reverted "Cap's Kooky Quartet" back to "New Avengers".  Dream Focus 19:01, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Cap's Kooky Quartet

message: This article needs more third party sources.  While it is fine and dandy that Marvel hypes up, or writes about, or references events in their own publications, the criteria for a major event needs to include notability, which means third parties are indicating it is major.  Places like IGN and CBR should be referenced way more than a book Marvel published themselves. Rowdyoctopus (talk) 02:52, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: Shouldn't the "Captain America of the 1950's" be added to this list? The one who showed up in Young Mens Comics and fought what was retconned into a Communist spy posing as the Red Skull?  There's also the original "Avengers" that we've seen reintroduced as Agents of Atlas, as well as the 3-D Man.
But none of that actually really happened - the 1950s Cap *was* Captain America until they decided otherwise for story reasons. --Cameron Scott (talk) 07:56, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: 1950's Events

message: I know this is a little presumptuous of me, but considering that many people are relating the time line that is presented in the issue to one that DC used to explain major events that where coming up; would it be appropriate to put these events up as "major events" when they happen?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vashdog (talk • contribs) 20:36, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Avengers #5 2010 

message: Is this actually a crossover? Or just a semi-relaunch thing on individual titles? BulbaThor (talk) 14:56, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Marvel Now 

message: Since this page is basically a list/chronology of comic books, and makes only basic descriptions of the plots of those books, is it not okay to base those basic descriptions on the books themselves? Since the content of the page apart from these summaries is basically limited to names and dates (and a LOT of both of these) essentially the only sources that can be cited are other such timelines. elvenscout742 (talk) 13:26, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Primary sources 

message: I've just rehauled the article trying to take into account the many points on this list. By crossover I expect characters from different families of titles meeting but also the storyline crossing over from a title to another.
Overall, there's a confusion between crossovers and aftermaths, between crossovers and story arcs, between crossovers and marketing campaigns (as shows the recent inclusion of Marvel Now! in this article). 
If needed we can start new articles for each of those. 
As I'm less familiar with X-Men stories, I've left a number of them even though they might not be actual crossovers but story arcs. (There's also the question of whether they are actual crossovers in the original sense since these series are all spin-off from each other. Same for the Everything Burns crossover between Mighty Thor and JIM, it probably needn't be included.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leocomix (talk • contribs) 15:15, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Major rehaul 

message: It seems to be a bit uneven what is included and what isn't.  You have "Fall of the Hulks" which is a Hulk specific story, but no Maximum Carnage a Spider-Man specific one.  Also all the 90's crossovers that occurred in the annuals (Such as Lifeform, Terminus Factor etc)  aren't here.  I think it even needs to trim the ones that are character specific or everything needs to be in here.  12/30/2015 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.67.140.56 (talk) 22:56, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. I much prefer the way the page was organized prior to the changes of July 2019. A column could simply be added to the chart specifying which "family" of titles each crossover belongs to.Zuckyd1 (talk) 18:26, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Inclusion

message: i want to edit some of the event in marvel comics 2405:4802:803C:2FF0:1995:FA27:D572:EDDE (talk) 05:36, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 10:54, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 26 August 2021 

message: What's a "Story Series"? This term does not even exist, does it?
Why are some company wide crossovers in different categories (Inferno, Acts of Vengeance, etc.)?
Why are stories that are not even proper crossovers in the lists? 2003:D4:771B:5000:940F:5306:1C03:21D6 (talk) 21:16, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: You are welcome to fix it. An editor from Vietnam was making huge, sweeping changes; that's probably where the problems started. That editor is now blocked. Binksternet (talk) 21:27, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page became a mess 

message: This page needs to drop like 40% of the list. We don't need an entry for every individual x-men or spider-man story arc that is contained within their individual series. By definition nearly half of the article is NOT a crossover or event. I would submit the changes myself for approval but every time I try I just mess up the layout. I know that's not a wildly specific suggestion, but I think anyone reading this understands what I mean. Basically we need to get it back to the format that it was in circa 2017. 2600:1700:4091:9900:4CAE:8061:B67A:9D8A (talk) 21:51, 1 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. This is more a discussion than an edit request. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 23:30, 1 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah sorry it's not very clear. There is just SO much that I'm not sure where to begin. I'm a newb when it comes to editing on here so be patient with me. The way this was originally set up was general marvel cross-overs and events by year. The last time I remember it looking that way was sometime around 2017.  Just a year by year list, very concise and easy to read, and only MAJOR crossovers and events. Now that it's separated by line wide/individual character/strictly x-men stuff and every other entry is just a standalone story line that only exists running through a single book. Examples: Doctor Strange Last Days Of Magic. That was just a story that ran through the Doctor Strange main series and happened to have a single one shot tie in issue. Right below that is Vote Loki. It was literally just a stand along mini series with no tie-ins to the marvel universe at large. This whole article is riddled with entries that are nothing but story arcs existing in a single series. None of that should be included in a list of line-wide events otherwise this article is going to get bigger and bigger and become even more incomprehensible. This should go back, in my opinion, to strictly events and multi series crossovers, and rather than being separated by each individual character or team it should just be listed in chronological order. That's what this page started as and it made SO much more sense. Basically this list: https://www.marvel.com/comics/events_crossovers but chronological as opposed to alphabetical, and drop everything else is what I'm suggesting. 2600:1700:4091:9900:C51C:9EA4:6F93:E494 (talk) 00:12, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 1 April 2022