Talk:Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki/Archive 12

message: The article claims Douglas McArthur was against the bombing of Japan. Can someone please supply me a reference for the sake of an argument I had?
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.202.175.156 (talk • contribs) 16:37, 27 June 2007
: Weintraub, Stanley (1995). The Last, Great Victory: The End of World War II.  p. 436 
:: [August 6, 1945] '... Theodore White ... interviewing General MacArthur in Manila, ... listened to the general, ... blame the Bomb as likely to end the days of heroic warfare. "Scholars and scientists" had stolen future wars from military professionals and made "men like me" obselete. There would be "no more wars" of the kind he knew, MacArthur mourned.' 
:—wwoods 06:41, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: MacArthur also wanted to use the bomb during the Korean War. In fact, his insistence that the bomb be used was one of the deciding factors in his being relieved by President Truman.Primium mobile 01:15, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  McArthur Statement 

message: I'm not against mentioning that this may be considered a war crime if it were done today (although if we were in war to the scale of WWII qualifications might change). I'm also not against mentioning that civilians were massacred (although one could argue this on semantics, because in massacres the point generally is the killing of civilians because of a conflict with the civilian population, while in other cases they're casualties of total war, same as other city bombings), I'm also not against mentioning that as an incident of war, the most human beings died in that incident than in any other in history. But the statement "To this date, the United States has been the country to kill the most number of human beings during war in a single day" is silly and out of place because its trying to get political props, as if countries are competing in some Guinness Book of World Records, and it matters to assert a statement in an encyclopedia asserting which country wins the honor for the most deaths in one day. How its worded is completely political, as if whoever wrote it is trying to take attention away from other countries war crimes, by creating a Hall of Shame and putting the US at the top. Mentioning a massacre may or may not be POV, but the way this statement is worded is definitely POV and political. That it was a US action is redundant (and explained in the article), the wording just underscores a political point.
I'm that knowledgeable about what happened in Armenian massacres but if there's an alternative name I would use it for the article, and create a separate article titled Armenian genocide which redirect to the main article which has sections on it as a political issue about genocide. I don't think there needs to be a similar second topic for the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings, because the political issue is a lot less moot, people everywhere agree what happened, the only thing left is whether its worded to be POV, and wording should be neutral.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.123.251.35 (talk • contribs) 02:24, 2 July 2007  (UTC)
: It may be silly but it's the truth and the truth must be stated in the first paragraph. It's a genuine fact that the United States of Americans killed the most number of human beings in a day and must be put in context. It's not Point Of View. It's a FACT. Unless you can prove me wrong.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Icedevil14 (talk • contribs) 14:59, July 2, 2007 (UTC)
::I agree regarding the record for most deaths in one day.  It is neither a record nor a necessary comment.  Especially in the opening paragraph. CodeCarpenter 13:42, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Also agree to removing the sentence, its not factually accurate as conventional bombings from both sides were often much worse (for an example of an allied one:Dresden).  Agree about the political motivation. Gtadoc 19:16, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: User:Icedevil14, your objectivity is doubtful, based on your vandalism on the page United States, stating "This is because the country doesn't have a proper name, thus it uses the name of two continents to refer to the people of thier nation.".  Your grasp on reality is doubtful, based on your comment on  "== God == God never wanted that flag to be on the moon. And rightfully, he took it off.".  Your grasp of objective knowledge is doubtful, based on your comment on Barry Bonds, "Barry Lamar Bonds (born July 24 1964 in Riverside, California) is a Major League Baseball designated hitter with the San Francisco Giants."  For the record, The United States of America has a proper name, the American flag is still on the moon, and Barry Bonds plays in the National League, which does not have a designated hitter.  Your talk page is littered with vandalism warnings, so I am not the first to notice.  See User_talk:Icedevil14 for details.  This is an encyclopedia, not a place to trash America for the fun of it. CodeCarpenter 16:23, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Compared to all other countries, it very well has a proper name..... right? It uses terms from the english lanuage and refers the country as "United States" ... then "of America" -- sometimes I question myself but I find it funny that most Americans, as they would like to be called, actually think "America" is orginated from THE United States. And that the continents are named after THEM. It always doubted me whenever I was a teenager, why is this whole america named after the country.. AMERICA. I did some research see that either way (North, SOuth, Central, East, West), everyone in this part of the world are Americans. So I was like, why the fuck are they calling themselves americans when there is people in america (CONTINENT) who are americans... Then I thought, oh yea....they dont have a proper name! (and Yes I do have alot of time in hand)Icedevil14 01:24, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Thank you for your input. I believe the "of America" is similar to "of York" in "Duchess of York".  It clarifies the location of the United States, so that other places, such as the United Arab Emirates, could have used United States in their name.  They are a part of the American continents, and therefore, can use America in their name as well.  The Florida Marlins are in Florida, but they are not the only team in Florida.  It is understood that they are a part of Florida, not that Florida is a part of them.  
However, this is a divergence from the original point, which is the bombings were not done to win some kind of deaths-in-a-day contest, but to end the war without a costly (in men, materials, time, and occupation difficulty) invasion.  Had America been trying to be punitive, they could have bombed Kobe or Tokyo, or aimed for the Emperor himself.  They chose smaller city targets to make the point that the Allies would not invade, but instead would use long range weapons (both conventional and atomic) until the Empire was destroyed. CodeCarpenter 13:31, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, calling US citizens "Americans" originated OUTSIDE the United States. It's only been in recent years, with all the United States envy that goes on around the world, that US citizens have come under fire for referring to themselves by the name given to them by others.Primium mobile 18:22, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I have to agree here, User:Icedevil14 after looking at your userpage/talkpage and your edit history it looks like you are more interested in vandalising pages than legitimate discussion.  As the added content you want is factually incorrect I don't see how it needs discussed further.  If I am wrong then feel free to do some more research on the topic and then post your thoughts on the discussion pages before editing the mainpages.  Thanks.  Gtadoc 17:16, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Questions on POV

message: I heard a while ago now that someones shaddow from the blast was shown on some stairs and still excists today. Is this true? and if so does anybody know where I can find more information about it? --MattyC3350 02:12, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Burnt Shadow