Talk:Vivian (Paper Mario)

message: I personally felt the debate over the original Japanese text was worth having its own section.
:If such a thing can be found, then it may be a worthwhile inclusion. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 05:32, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Debate over Context of original Japanese quotes 

message: I feel that this page has been used to push a specific interpretation of the character that is not necessarily true.
Almost every citation relating to the transgender topic comes from secondary opinions that are barely rooted in the source material at all.
What should be a footnote in the page totals up to over 60% of the article by word count, very little of which is based on the script itself. Rather, the majority of the citations are pieces from journalists who do not have to hold up to any standard of integrity.
2600:6C46:4A00:C27:8047:9578:12D4:441 (talk) 01:58, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: That's how it's supposed to be. Wikipedia is built on secondary sources, and we focus on whatever they do. WanderingWanda (talk) 03:25, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I completely understand that, but I have serious issues regarding their validity as citations. The article suffers a lot because it is so far removed from the game it is talking about. The quote "In every non-English localization of the game, Vivian is still transgender." especially shows this, because this isn't proven by the source given or any other. I think these points are thrown in to back an agenda before proper research has been done, and they should be taken out of the article. 2600:6C46:4A00:C27:8047:9578:12D4:441 (talk) 03:39, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: The source says says  WanderingWanda (talk) 04:11, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, but that's unfounded. Anybody could say anything, but unless there is supporting evidence (i.e. the scripts) it should not be written into an article and presented as fact. 2600:6C46:4A00:C27:8047:9578:12D4:441 (talk) 04:15, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I mean, IGN is a professional site with an editorial team. In addition, one source does quote the Italian version's script directly. However, per your concerns, I've made the sentence a little less emphatic: it now says  rather than . WanderingWanda (talk) 06:10, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. I think this is a good step toward removing unnecessary bias, but I would still like to see more of the sources replaced or the sections moved in regards to citations that lack primary evidence entirely. 2600:6C46:4A00:C27:7881:C24A:5F6C:7B9B (talk) 00:14, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article needs serious review regarding subjectivity 

message: In the lead, it states "In the Japanese version and European language translations, she is a transgender woman," however, in the body it states "In the original Japanese version, Vivian is described as a boy who looks like a girl, and not explicitly transgender. This detail was carried over to the French and Spanish translations." So which is it accurate? Neither one has a reliable source to back it. JDDJS (talk to me • see what I've done) 21:11, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I've revised the article to reflect that she identifies as one of "the three shadow sisters" in the Japanese version. - Sundew451 (talk) 23:43, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradictory statements about gender in Japanese version