Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Palestine/Archive 3

message: There are discussions about changing the names of these articles:
*Al-Aqsa Intifada‎
*Allegations of Israeli apartheid - Also a merge discussion.
Discussion is occurring on their talk pages. --Timeshifter 07:39, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Article merges and title changes being discussed

message: The section of the article called "Reasons for impasse" needs some help. See the talk page. There seems to be an attempt at spin control through selective use of sourced info. Leaving in some significant viewpoints, and leaving out others. Sweeping claims keep being inserted too. Reminds me of similar problems with the Taba Summit article. I made some attempts to clean up some of it, but it may get reverted, because one editor does not understand WP:NPOV. The editor seems to be coming at this from the angle of expressing an official viewpoint in the narrative tone of the wikipedia article. Instead of putting out all significant viewpoints in the messy wikipedia way that allows people to come to their own conclusions.
See Talk:Taba Summit for similar problems. On that page some editors had the audacity to say that PBS, Shlomo Ben-Ami, Israel's negotiator, and Saeb Erekat, Palestinian chief negotiator, were not significant viewpoints concerning how close the summit came to success. These editors never allowed the sourced info on the page. They got the page protected for several months. I gave up. Some others need to get involved.--Timeshifter 22:44, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[2000 Camp David Summit]]

message: Can someone ask for a bot to add the :Template:1948 Palestine-geo stubs to all articles listed in the List of villages depopulated during the 1948 Arab-Israeli war? If the Template:Palestine-geo-stubs is there it should be replaced and if not, this one should be added anyway to all. Going through them one by one is getting to be very tedious. Thanks. Tiamut 12:39, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The template is now up for deletion. See the project page for more details. Tiamut 03:10, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think having a Palestine-hist-stub is the best solution.  I think it could be very useful.  --Abnn 03:13, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

text: It might be, but I fear that it might be creating another level of unnecessary complexity due to its extremely wide scope (from the first to 21st century). It might be a better idea to understand what task we want the template to accomplish and to scope it on that basis. To which I ask, what task do we want the template to accomplish? :-) TewfikTalk 03:20, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Help

message: While our current WikiProject main page design modeled originally on WikiProject Israel is sufficient, I have been really impressed by WikiProject Syria's design, see WikiProject Syria.  I find it very clean and easier to navigate than our current design.  It just an idea that I wanted to introduce if case someone else agrees.  --Abnn 05:01, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm afraid the nuance is lost on me. What specifically is different that you'd like to implement? TewfikTalk 06:56, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Layout, with the boxes and all that.  I think that right now WikiProject Syria is a lot easier to read and navigate than our project.  I like its professionalism.  DieWeibeRose was refactoring some of our page and thus I brought WikiProject Syria up as the direction to head in, if we are looking for something akin to a "best practice" in terms of page design.  --Abnn 07:10, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I see now. Yes, its much cleaner and more professional. Good job DieWeibeRose. TewfikTalk 17:54, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is very attractive. Does anyone have time to implement it? --Ian Pitchford 19:30, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've give it a try in the next few days, hopefully time permitting.  --Abnn 21:41, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A model to emulate: [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Syria|WikiProject Syria]] 

message: Guys, Im new to wiki, and I plan to translate the article http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%AF%D9%88%D9%84%D8%A9_%D9%81%D9%84%D8%B3%D8%B7%D9%8A%D9%86 to English. What steps should i take to do that? by that, i mean, where should i put my translation, where should i save it? thx for any help! --Zaki Saadeh 18:06, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, you can post the resulting English text on this page and we can help you make an article out of it.  You could also just create the English language equivalent of the article yourself and then post a link to it on this page and we can help clean it up.  There isn't a set procedure to follow, except an understanding that the end result should be a proper English language Wikipedia article.  --Abnn 20:00, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I think Zaki was using the OpenTasks page as a reference because it contained فلسطين.  I have removed this entry for now.  Maybe there are other more useful articles to translate?  --Abnn 01:35, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation 

message: I'm pretty sure these two articles cover roughly the same information from the same perspective:
* Proposals for a Palestinian state
* Palestinian state
Eventually, I fear we'll have to merge these two.  That is unless someone can see a significant difference between the two and justifying keep both around.  --AbnnTalk 06:09, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: An attempt at a centralized discussion: Talk:Proposals for a Palestinian state#Merge from proposal: Palestinian state.  --AbnnTalk 06:40, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merging [[Proposals for a Palestinian state]] and [[Palestinian state]]? 

message: It may be delisted from its GA status.  The primary concern is lack of inline referencing, as there are only 12 references between 16 sections.  Please assume good faith and work quickly to improve the article. -Malkinann 16:11, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[1973 oil crisis]] is up for [[WP:GA/R|Good article review]]

message: Please see this diff
Concerning :Category:Geography of the Palestinian territories Tewfik twice removed the following info (between the double line breaks) from the category page:
----
----
See also the Atlas of Palestine at the wikimedia commons. It is an organized and commented collection of geographical, political and historical maps of Palestine and the Palestinian territories.
:Category:Geography of the Middle East
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----
The Palestinian territories are in the Middle East. 
The Atlas covers both Palestine and the Palestinian territories. Should the Atlas name be changed to "Atlas of Palestine and the Palestinian territories"?
The word "Palestine" is both a historical and political term. It is an aspiration and political movement. So the name exists, and is verifiable as to its modern uses. I think it would be kind of silly to change the Atlas of Palestine to "Atlas of Palestine and the Palestinian territories"? But supporters of the right-wing of Israeli politics seem bent on destroying acknowledgement of either name if they are used in any way to refer to the modern Palestinian territories. They prefer "Judea" and "Samaria."
The Palestine link banner may be a different situation. Maybe the name of the link banner should be changed to "Palestinian territories". Or maybe there should be 2 versions of it. One labeled "Palestine" to put on historical Palestine articles, and one labeled "Palestinian territories" to put on articles about the modern Palestinian territories. --Timeshifter 21:31, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This geography category is for the Palestinian territories of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. See :Category:Geography of Palestine for articles and categories dealing with historical Palestine.
This may help people in finding what they want, and in sorting it correctly. --Timeshifter 21:51, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[:Category:Geography of the Palestinian territories]] 

message: Please see this diff. Tewfik removed :Category:Geography of the Palestinian territories, but left in :Category:Geography of Israel. Please read the edit summaries in the diff. As far as I know categories don't go through featured article (FA) reviews. So Tewfik is misinterpreting wikipedia procedures and guidelines again. --Timeshifter 00:42, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So Tewfik is misinterpreting wikipedia procedures and guidelines again. Yes, that helpful comment is a great way to get across a point. TewfikTalk 02:54, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You didn't address the issue. You seem to have a habit of trying to remove the names "Palestine" and "Palestinian territories" from many places in wikipedia. In your edit summary you wrote: "rmv nonconsensus categorisation; this just went through FA & the standard was confirmed again". You also seem to have a habit of using acronyms way too often in your edit summaries. And in this case it is a  misinterpretation of what a "featured article" is. Categories don't go through "Featured Article" (FA) reviews. --Timeshifter 11:30, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[:Category:Geography of Jerusalem]] 

message: Please see this diff. Tewfik removed :Category:Disputed territories and :Category:Cities in the West Bank. He left in :Category:Cities in Judea. His edit summary was "please don't use categories to say what doesn't stand in the entry's text."
From Jerusalem:
The Arab population is clustered in the north, east and south. Today, Jerusalem remains a bone of contention in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict: Israel's annexation of East Jerusalem (captured in the 1967 Six-Day War) has been particularly controversial, as Palestinians view this part of the city as the capital of a future Palestinian state.[10][11] The status of a "united Jerusalem" as Israel's "eternal capital"[12][13] has not been officially recognized by most of the international community, and nearly all countries maintain their embassies in Tel Aviv.[14]
--Timeshifter 13:40, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[:Category:Jerusalem]] 

message: 
Would anybody be interested in creating a version of this linkbar titled "Palestinian territories"? It would be a simple solution to some problems. The linkbar title would be "Points of interest related to Palestinian territories on Wikipedia"
All the links would remain the same, except the category link would be changed to :Category:Palestinian territories. That is done automatically when the code is changed to

I don't know how to add the rest of the links on the bar, though. This second linkbar could be used on category pages with "Palestinian territories" in the title, or related categories such as :Category:West Bank and :Category:Gaza Strip.
The original linkbar would be used on all the categories related to historical Palestine. Using 2 linkbars would avoid a lot of naming arguments.--Timeshifter 12:05, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Palestinian territories linkbar? 

message: There is a category for deletion discussion going on here.
There is a wikipedia article titled East Jerusalem. So I don't understand why the category would be deleted. I suggest keeping the list page too, List of East Jerusalem locations. The notes can be expanded there as needed. That way we cover the issue from all sides. More info is better than less. The section headings from the list page can be used to create subcategories for :Category:East Jerusalem. The subcategory names may need to be adjusted slightly to make them into better subcategory names. Subcategory names such as:
*Jerusalem locations in Jordanian municipality (1949-1967).
*Jerusalem locations in expanded Israeli municipality (1967-present).--Timeshifter 13:54, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Note. I don't see many editors from Wikipedia:WikiProject Palestine commenting at the category for deletion discussion. It seems that many of the editors who have commented so far are some of the more POV-oriented ones from Wikipedia:WikiProject Israel. I consider myself a WP:NPOV member of that project. --Timeshifter 19:02, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would imagine it is because most of the people round here are more interrested in adding material to Wikipedia than deleting stuff other people have written. ابو علي (Abu Ali) 04:43, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[:Category:East Jerusalem]] 

message: Please see this diff.
Tewfik removed this info below from :Category:Geography of the Palestinian territories
See also the Atlas of Palestine at the wikimedia commons. It is an organized and commented collection of geographical, political and historical maps of Palestine and the Palestinian territories.
This censorship by Tewfik of references to the names "Palestine" and "Palestinian territories" needs to stop. It may need to be reported to WP:ANI. There have been many examples of Tewfik's deletion of references to the names "Palestine" and "Palestinian territories"?
Also, in his longstanding habit of blind, mass reversions he keeps removing :Category:Geography of the Middle East. Even though he leaves in :Category:Geography by country.
I have reported on Tewfik's mass reversions many times over many months. He often blindly deletes non-controversial intermediate revisions added by others in order to get back to his preferred version. This is another example of Tewfik's tendentious editing. --Timeshifter 15:12, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, not going to take the bait; please limit your comments to content, not editors. TewfikTalk 15:38, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You are the editor, and it is your edits we are discussing. --Timeshifter 16:03, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[commons:Atlas of Palestine]] 

message: Two different Prime Ministers are shown in One in the box inserted by the Politics of Palestine tag and one in the Main Office Holders box. This probably reflects the reality of a post disputed by two armed camps with power bases in separated areas, but has the tag box been changed too quickly? AFAIR during the previous crisis, before the coalition government was formed, Hamas said that Abbas didn't have a constitutional right to dissolve the government. Does someone in the project have access to a clear description of the constitution? Or does a neutral point of view actually require stating that the post is disputed? --Peter cohen 22:13, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: [] now acknowledges both putative PMs, whilst Politics of the Palestinian National Authority lists just one. I think both should be mentioned everywhere except when specifically talking about de facto control in either the WB or the GS. --Peter cohen 22:05, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who is the PM? 

message: I don't know if there is already an article about Salam Fayyad's government, but if there isn't, here's a list of some of the ministers, with short profiles. Cattus 17:16, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Government of Salam Fayyad 

message: I have considerably expanded the article on the sections of Early Life, (created Formation of Fatah from ending portion of Early Life section and expanded on that as well), Jordan, fixed links, grammatical errors, spelling throughout the article and added mid-sized portions of information to the Lebanon and Aftermath sections and all with reference to Said K. Aburish's biography of Yasser Arafat, Arafat, From Defender to Dictator including the references he used.
If someone just adds the reference to this sentence,
According to one of his doctors, Arafat was suffering from Idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura (ITP), an immunologically-mediated decrease in the number of circulating platelets to abnormally low levels[citation needed].
Then I think we should upgrade its status to Featured Article from A-article. See, Talk:Yasser Arafat -- User: Al Ameer son 16:28, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Upgrade Yasser Arafat to FA status 

message: I left the following message at User talk:Kbdank71.
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 June 11#Category:East Jerusalem
Hi. I think you are mistaken in closing the CFD discussion with "The result of the debate was delete".
From Wikipedia:Deletion process#Categories for Discussion page {emphasis added):
:If the discussion failed to reach consensus, then the category is kept by default, but the decision should generally include a reference to the lack of consensus, in order to minimize ambiguity and future confusion.
I count 8 keeps and 19 deletes from non-anonymous users. The "oppose" is a keep vote, and I counted it in the 8 keeps. Most of the deletes were from users who did not enter into discussion. I see no consensus, and not even rough consensus.
Wikipedia:Deletion review#Purpose says to ask the closing admin to correct possible mistakes in closing:
"Deletion Review is the process to be used to challenge the outcome of a deletion debate or a speedy deletion. 1. Deletion Review is to be used where someone is unable to resolve the issue in discussion with the administrator (or other editor) in question. This should be attempted first - courteously invite the admin to take a second look."--Timeshifter 01:15, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I did not get the closing admin to change his mind. So I started a deletion review at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2007 June 22. --Timeshifter 08:28, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Deletion of the overall category was endorsed by the closing admin of the deletion review. I think there would be little rational objection to more specific categories based on the 2 subsections of this page: List of East Jerusalem locations. To see a list of the articles that were categorized in the deleted category please go here: Talk:List of East Jerusalem locations. --Timeshifter 11:33, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Category:East Jerusalem closing admin decision to delete 

message: The article Gilo has some attached users who revert anytime this 'neighbourhood' is also called a 'settlement'. This seems rather bizarre. I also noticed it was nicely located in 'southern Jerusalem' ... which is funny. East Jerusalem is being kept out. Funny ole world this is. 129.215.149.99 08:03, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I added a 'disclaimer'. While the use of the description 'neighbourhood' varies between settlements, Gilo is infact part of the Jerusalem municipality so most people don't see it as as seperate 'settlement'. And saying 'eastern Jerusalem' does not equal 'East Jerusalem' or maybe it does? --Shuki 20:16, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The IP's complaint is spurious. The article already said many consider it a settlement and also included the link to East Jerusalem. nadav (talk) 22:15, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Gilo

message: This article has been nominated as a good article. I think it should be improve more. SO I put On hold tag and wrote my suggestions in the talk page of the article. Please try to imrove it and make a good article.--Sa.vakilian(t-c) 19:33, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Battle of Gaza (2007)

message: I'm creating some maps for sporting events and I'm wondering if it's correct to shade West Bank+Gaza Strip for Palestine. Is this correct? --Howard the Duck 18:15, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Map shading 

message: Please see discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive818#Edit warring and POV pushing Category:Jerusalem. I also posted this at Wikipedia:Notice board for Israel-related topics and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel. --Timeshifter 12:06, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Discussion is now archived here: . It lists many examples of this still-ongoing POV campaign. --Timeshifter 17:49, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[WP:ANI]]. Jerusalem categorization 

message: Please see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 August 7 and :Category:Palestinian territories. I also posted this at Wikipedia:Notice board for Israel-related topics and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel.--Timeshifter 01:04, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another deletion attempt concerning various "[[Palestinian territories]]" categories 

message: I have put forth a peer review for the Israel article at Wikipedia:Peer review/Israel/archive1. Comments are welcome there (and on Talk:Israel, if you prefer). -- tariqabjotu 20:00, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[WP:PR|Peer review]] for [[Israel]] 

message: For about a month or so I have nominated the article of Yasser Arafat to a Featured Article Peer Review. Since the article is of TOP importance to the project I request we all participate in working on the article. Give Feedback and read more at Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Peer review/Yasser Arafat -- Al Ameer son 17:20, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Peer Review for Yasser Arafat 

message: someone needs to help me in revising this page. Some of the statements are rediculous and everything I add gets deleted within minutes. HELP!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.95.207.66 (talk) 19:23, August 30, 2007 (UTC) 
:You will get better results if you sign in first. If you do not have a user name, it only takes a minute to get one. You can remain anonymous. Even during the registration process. Only an email address is required. And that can be left private in your preferences. --Timeshifter 22:04, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sabra Shatila