Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Pokémon/Archive 18

message: Cleaned out to gut old discussions. Archived FFAs. Shin'ou's TTV (Futaba|Masago|Kotobuki) 03:36, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Next Miscellaneous Article 

message: I'd sugest Lugia to focus. That's because I'm focusing this in the Lusophone Wikipedia and I found that Lugia in the Anglophone Wikipedia is lacking much content. Then I think Lugia should be the Species Focus for July. ManecoWifi 01:25, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why not Huntail? It doesn't have much. TheBlazikenMaster 01:30, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, we should remember that the merging-by-evolutionary-line option is always open, and that the only reason nothing's happening with it right now is because we've all been taking a big break from it. With the merger in mind, I would support making Lugia a focus to see if it can truly hold its own article so that merging it with Ho-oh is not necessary. But a merged page on the minor Pokemon Clamperl, Huntail, and Gorebyss seems like it'll exist that way regardless of a separate article focus, because those three have much less to say about them than Lugia. Erik Jensen (Appreciate|Laugh At) 01:51, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yup, needs to be the next focus. --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 06:51, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: lol, ur humor has brightened my day -PokeZap (Zappernapper) 15:30, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Focus for next month

message: It is a giant psychic bird, created with awesome power. It can talk to people in English using it's psychic power. The flaps on its back could resemble aerodynamics.
:::Yup, needs to be the next focus. --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 06:51, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: lol, ur humor has brightened my day -PokeZap (Zappernapper) 15:30, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: biological characteristics

message: You got an related AfD here: Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Zangoose_and_Seviper, someone merged the two characters without consensus.  Should they stay like that, or be split back up? Kwsn(Ni!) 22:27, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have added a link to the discussion in the project's noticeboard.  --Brandon Dilbeck 01:03, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The merged article has been speedily deleted.  I am removing it from the noticeboard.  --Brandon Dilbeck 01:27, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hey guys 

message: But Bulbasaur was demoted, it's no longer an FA, might want to update that on the front page. Kwsn(Ni!) 06:22, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Aw, shucks!  Well, ain't that a stinker?  Now none of the articles covered by this project are FAs.  I've updated the main page.  --Brandon Dilbeck 06:28, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Also, sorry to bust your bubble guys 

message: Since its merger, "List of Pokémon" has been unbelievably popular for the whole of 2007 with the viewing audience. In the rank tables, this list came: 4th in June, 4th in May, 4th in April, 8th in March and 14th in February. Consistently being the fourth most popular in an encyclopedia of  articles is an impressive feat. May I suggest that in the interest of public opinion, attentions be focused strongly on this page, in particular improving it to Featured List status? - 82.16.7.63 03:18, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would like to direct discussion on this matter to the article's talk page.  --Brandon Dilbeck 03:28, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The phenomenon you are referring to is a result of vandalism (deletion of articles) and link (redirect) spamming. Far from being actually popular, these near-useless (compared to previous pages) collections of stubs are stealing hits from up to 20 articles that they replace. I imagine they get quite a few extra hits as users search the site for information they feel ought to be there, because they have memories of it once being there, only to repeatedly end up redirected back to that same, god-aweful  merge page. Zaphraud 04:49, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: He's talking bout the consolidated list. Read the whole thing. --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 12:17, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Phenomenal popularity of [[List of Pokémon]] 

message: The article Stunky is being discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Stunky. Your comments would be welcome. --Eastmain 07:43, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for letting us know.  I've added a link to the discussion to the noticeboard.  --Brandon Dilbeck 07:58, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, and I'd like people to read my nomination and base their decision on my nomination. I don't believe Eastmain did this; he leaned on previous consensus and ignored my arguments. --Teggles 08:00, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Sorry for bulleting your reply, by the way. --Teggles 08:42, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am creating the article that Stunky would have been merged into eventually even if this AFD never existed. I have a draft in my userspace. FunPika 18:43, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice, FunPika. I wasn't aware the AFD page existed, yet there's a lot of debate there already. Looking at the AFD page, I must say, trying to find some way to cover the Pokemon species in a way that satisfies both all types of people and all manner of Wikipolicy is looking near-futile, with many opposing 493 separate pages and many others opposing merged articles... It's no wonder AMIB never commented recently. Erik Jensen (Appreciate|Laugh At) 19:15, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Pokémon-related discussion at AfD 

message: I just ran across Nincada evolutionary line and noticed that author information (or at the very least, where the article text came from) is completely missing. I imagine this is the case for a number of other articles. Please try to get this fixed up. The GFDL is non-negotiable and this article could be speedy deleted at any time. --- RockMFR 18:13, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  More GFDL compliance issues 

message: Template: has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. — Kwsn(Ni!) 00:10, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  TfD nomination of [[:Template:{{ucfirst:Poke-cleanup}}]]

message: Template: has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. — FunPika 00:23, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  TfD nomination of [[:Template:{{ucfirst:Pokefair}}]]

message: Sorry to say guys, but unless  and  are A. reworded so it doesn't violate WP:OWN and B. have the image replaced with a generic pokeball, I may be nominating them for deletion.  Thanks in advance. Kwsn(Ni!) 04:12, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems to me that you don't want these templates to indicate any relationship with this WikiProject.  I think your first concern could easily be handled by removing the "Pokémon Collaborative Project" part at the end, but as for the second concern, replacing the Wikiball image with a generic Poké Ball image (like this) would be a copyright violation.  Since the article is about Pokémon, I don't see a huge problem with there being a picture of the Wikiball, which is easily associable with Pokémon.  The article Narrow-body aircraft has an airplane image in its stub template, but I don't automatically associate it with WikiProject Aircraft.  --Brandon Dilbeck 07:08, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As Brandon said, the main pokeball would be a copyvio. Also, you do realize that the entire stub type would be wiped out of existence over a wording issue if you nominated it right? FunPika 11:00, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Alright, I'll give you the pokeball, and I'll retract my intent to nominate it for deletion, but it honestly needs to be reworded to fit into WP:OWN. Kwsn(Ni!) 14:51, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  References to this project removed. FunPika 15:05, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you. Kwsn(Ni!) 15:47, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Me again 

message: I first want to point out what a nice job  did organizing this project's page.  While I was doing some refinements of his edits by restructuring the page's hierarchy, I starting thinking about the Related WikiProjects section.  I am wondering exactly what makes some of the projects in that list related to this one (such as WikiProject The Elder Scrolls).  I'm also wondering what use including the inactive projects serves anyone.  Should we consider trimming down this list, if not removing it entirely?  --Brandon Dilbeck 07:58, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Related WikiProjects? 

message: More a nudge for you guys here, but you should take a vote when to begin a drive to merge the evolutionary lines together.  I'm saying this as more of a warning of sorts because I'm not going to be making more AfD for the pages (I've caused you guys enough problems as is the last few days), but it may help a bit to get it done faster so no more pop up.
Also, a suggestion: If you want to condense the articles down even more to an even less amount of pages (which I doubt, but hear me out anyway), why not sort them by primary type (meaning if it has two types, sort by the first one) of the basic pokemon of that line.  Just a thought. Kwsn(Ni!) 20:34, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: First of all, since Wikipedia is a work in progress, I don't see any reason to rush into merging any articles together.  There is no deadline for Wikipedia, so rushing the matter won't help at all.  As for merging by type, it doesn't seem to be the case for dual-type Pokémon that one type is primary and the other secondary, so it probably wouldn't be appropriate to assume that the first one is more important.  If we look at Pidgeotto for example, it is a Normal/Flying type.  I would assume, though, that the Flying part is more important, seeing that it's a bird.  There are no Flying-only-type Pokémon. --Brandon Dilbeck 02:07, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

text: About Crobat, I personally feel its Poison type is more important.  Clearly, it won't work to divide anything by type, as people will disagree and move things and everything.  --Brandon Dilbeck 02:22, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think a way to solve this problem is to do it based on the way the Pokédex does the typing.  So Crobat would be under the Poison-type wing, Magneton is for Electric, and Pidgeot...is Normal.  ROFL, people are going to hate that. hbdragon88 03:56, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well do it by the obvious major type then, and if it's in the air, the first type then. Kwsn(Ni!) 05:13, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As has been discussed before, grouping by type would crate gigantic lists for Normal and tiny ones for, um, steel or dragon. Number is the best alternative. --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 08:27, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, 20-Pokemon per list is fine for merging, no need for elements. Evolutionary lines are a very bad idea, two non-notable articles do not make a notable article. I've actually started the 20-Pokemon type of merging: check out List of Pokémon (421-440), I've merged 5 articles without removing any info (except for game guide and OR). This is actually very easy for many Pokemon, because most have very little information. --Teggles 08:49, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So we're gonna cover the species in 25 descriptive list pages covering 20 Pokemon each, with Main Article links to the more important species - the very proposal I first made on here many months ago? If the plan is going to stay consistently at that course, then I love it and will be willing to help out. The main reason I was willing to check out the alternative merge-by-evo-line proposal of other users was because it was much too hard for me to try and create the first pages in this series (List of Pokémon (1-20) and List of Pokémon (21-40)) all by myself, for those pages were much harder than it would have been making the (421-440) page, mainly because earlier Pokémon in general seem to have much more to say about them that can be properly sourced. (And I once considered arranging by elements too, but there really is too much about that concept that can be open to interpretation and thus cause warring over.) Anyway, let's hope there won't be too much user conflict in this transition. Erik Jensen (Appreciate|Laugh At) 17:27, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Erm, I'm not sure what you guys want to do with the TCG images, but I'm going to have quite a bit of orphaned image bot messages soon... So look there for the first 125ish Pokémon trading cards. Alvin6226  talk  15:50, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure why we need to use the TCG images. --Teggles 23:44, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Still yet another comment 

message: I suppose a lot of people here can, so in any case, what does this archive of Mayumi's blog say? The article on Misty had it saying that Misty's gonna make an appearance in D/P, until an anon came by and edited it to say the blog only hints that. And a random girl on YouTube keeps telling me the blog now says she's gonna return as a main character and "admit her feelings" to Ash, can someone scan the whole blog and tell me if it does? Cheers, The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 08:13, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, it's a blog, so it shouldn't be used as a reference. Babelfish didn't really tell me anything though. --Teggles 03:39, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You don't get much more official than the words of Kasumi's voice actress. --Sonic Mew 22:25, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, Sonic, for editing this section and reminding me it existed. In any case, I guess Teggles didn't know who Mayumi was, people don't go around carrying the names of removed characters' VAs in their memory. But this is ridiculous, does NO ONE speak Japanese in a Project dedicated to a JAPANESE FRANCHISE?! --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 12:01, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Can anyone read Japanese? 

message: I went to look and see how much Cherrim weighs, and the new article didn't say. That's sad, because that's not original research stuff, it says in every Dex information. Toastypk 21:09, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The only reason it's not there is because of the template used (which I didn't create). --Teggles 00:35, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Zappernapper (now User:PokeZap) originally included it in the template, but then cut it down as cruft. --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 03:17, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I do believe that's something that merits discussion, however. I can imagine opponents of the merger feeling better about it if at least that much is added back... Erik Jensen (Appreciate|Laugh At) 07:17, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

text: at first i didn't remember doing that, but i think your talking about  right? if so, i removed it from there because that info should be included in group articles or on a singular species article - the lists representing the most general and pertinent info. So Cherrim's height/weight would be found at Cherrim evolutionary line. -PokeZap (Zappernapper) 17:13, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Which I will probably drag to AfD the moment it comes into existence. I still don't get how Ralts evolutionary line is any better than the original articles. Same amount of ludicrously in-depth coverage of hopelessly minor characters. --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 16:20, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

text: yes, that's something i've had a problem with... many of these merged articles are merely that - merges of the bad articles under a new name. I've seen no improvements made as the merges are happening, just some clipping, copying, and pasting. Raven I'd like to ask your opinion on Eevee evolutionary line and to a lesser extent Abra evolutionary line. The Eevee article i wrote myself from scratch, building on the original articles, but hopefully you'll be able to see they are heavily rewritten (with the minor exception of Leafeon and Glaceon not getting as much attention). The Abra article was reformatted and i really only reworked the Bio. Char. sections, trying out  for inline citations of the pokedexes. hopefully (for at least the Eevee line article) you'll agree that adequate, but not extraneous, information is given. -PokeZap (Zappernapper) 02:34, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Aaaaaaaah, just when I have a packed week ahead of me?! OK, I'll try to get to it this Sunday afternoon or evening (per IST, +5:30 UTC). Cheers, The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 16:07, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I was thinking "comprehensiveness", plus, unlike shiny colors, height and weight are officially verifiable info. What does WP:FICT say about this kind of verifiable, but irrelevant, stuff? --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 05:17, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Basically, I was thinking of not indiscriminate collection of information more than WAF.  Just because it can be verified doesn't mean that it should be here. hbdragon88 01:12, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: yes WP:NOT is the more appropriate guideline/policy to apply here. the only saving grace for height/weight is that it can (in some cases) add to the understanding of the pokemon in general. I was personally surprised by how short Swampert actually is when i saw it in stadium.... of course this may be similar to why we don't include specific numbers for strengths of attacks or base stats - but unlike those numbers, everybody can appreciate the difference between a foot or two (where 100 vs. 150 base Attack means little to non-players, 3ft. vs. 6ft. is a generally understandable difference). -PokeZap (Zappernapper) 18:46, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I hope that someone restores the previous Species infoboxes, as they were informative. Their lack in the articles, I believe is the only bad thing about the merged lists.DragonOfLegend 05:22, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  We should at least put height and weight in these new-fangled articles 

message: I found a page for "List of Starter pokemon." I think this is already covered in Pokémon game mechanics. I'm kinda new, so I'm not really sure what to do about it.
Dude902 19:19, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I suggest a merger into Pokémon game mechanics. Joiz A. Shmo 21:01, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: i don't think this qualifies as a controversial move, all the content is redundant to info at Pokémon game mechanics#Start Pokémon. -PokeZap (Zappernapper) 00:08, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unnecessary Page? 

message: I created an example of how this would look for Cherrim: List of Pokémon (421-440)#Cherrim. It's not fully referenced, but this is only because I did not have time can't be bothered right now. It's not long, it's verifiable, and covers everything needed. If it had coverage in the anime, the last paragraph would be merged with the second paragraph, leaving a third for anime details. --Teggles 00:56, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Quite interesting, this would eliminate all individual Pokemon articles in favor of a series of lists. It makes sense and is more easily manageable, likc Creatures in the Metroid Prime series, as well as allowing waggle room for any new additions (God forbid). However, what about some articles that were featured, like Torchic? Would the list then be featured instead? Overall, I like it.--Zxcvbnm 01:54, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It doesn't mean eliminating every article. Torchic could possibly be merged, but as one of the starter Pokemon, it'll probably stay. --Teggles 02:04, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems strange that the starters would get preferential treatment. I'd prefer a unified solution now that the featured articles have lost their status.--Zxcvbnm 02:40, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We have nil featured articles. Both Torchic and Bulbasaur have been delisted. --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 03:17, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Doubt it. We're talking about 493 species here..... Yes, they'll all have been mentioned somewhere or the other, but somewhere reliable? Doubt it. As for Cherrim, is there any reason to mention the attacks? --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 03:28, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Doesn't need to be for every Pokemon, especially if they are being grouped into lists. However, finding examples of pokemon being cited in critical reviews can help enhance the overall out-of-universe perspective, even if it is scraping from the bottom of the barrel. Reliable reviews are usually websites with editorial staff, magazines, and newsletters. — Deckiller 03:30, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Also, attacks lists are probably unnecessary (since there are very few unique moves), unless it's a notable attack (something like "terrorism" or something that caused controversy). But I've been out of the pokemon loop for 5+ years, so I don't know of any extremes. — Deckiller 03:34, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I got yelled at by PokeZap for omitting attacks in the previous merge, so I've left them in this time. --Teggles 03:56, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No attacks need to be included unless they're unique to that Pokemon (such as "Sacred Fire" for Ho-Oh or "Aeroblast" for Lugia). In that case, you could mention how it learns that move. ("Ho-Oh's signature move is Sacred Fire, a powerful blast of flame") or something like that. I doubt any attack would be controversial, so they don't need to be otherwise mentioned.--Zxcvbnm 05:09, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I sort of agree, but we're not likely to reach unanimous agreement with that. For creatures with little information, I don't think it's a problem to mention their attacks. --Teggles 09:39, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If there is no useful information about a Pokémon, it doesn't mean we add any and every bit of cruft we can find into its article. --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 14:39, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I've started to merge the articles from that list into the list itself. I've noticed that all the articles have nothing extra that the list doesn't have, aside from a few height measurements and a crufty battle recap or two. They all have the same intro as well, which is a bit repetitive. I suggest that instead of all the merged evolution articles, we make lists instead, which have a much larger possibility of becoming Featured Lists as well as remove all the pain of trying to update the over 400 individual articles, which have been mocked for their sheer number.--Zxcvbnm 23:29, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I originally created the whole list and merged all of the articles. Unfortunately, ZapperNapper reverted the merges because there was no discussion of it. --Teggles 23:33, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, now this issue has been decided. I don't want this to become an edit war, so make sure that he doesn't revert the articles back without reading this. He should know that the 400+ individual articles are cruft at the highest sense of the word.--Zxcvbnm 00:21, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Is this fine for an initial merge (just scraping whatever is possibly useful off of the article)? You are going with the list format over the combined articles at this point, right? I don't want to get started on this just to be reverted. TTN 23:56, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Example

message: I just made a new article () and I need someone to check/fix it. Can anyone help? -Fear teh Happy! 16:30, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, there are numerous misspellings (it's "Johto", not "Jhoto"), some apparent original research, a lack of references, no wikilinks, and you labelled Golduck as being a Bug/Grass Pokémon.  --Brandon Dilbeck 18:17, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Use ref tags. [ref] and [/ref] Actually, check articles that HAVE references (for example, Halo: Combat Evolved for examples.--Zxcvbnm 00:34, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  check the new article 

message: I have no idea what's going on, on the Gyarados article, but on Magikarp vandals keep on going there because since it's so weak, or coming with some nonsense it isn't. I know page protection should take care of it, but that won't last forever. So I think someone should merge Magikarp and Gyarados next time. I would, except that the merging sections on pokémon articles seems extremely complicated to me. I really am confused on how to make a merged pokémon article. Any thoughts?
Ok, now for something off topic, but it needs to be said: I haven't been active for over a week because this is the last revision that was visible on my watchlist, probably because when I removed old for deletion pages I accidentally removed this project from the watchlist as well, it sucks doesn't it? This is NOT the first time that happened to me, before accidentally removing the project, I removed the noticeboard from my watch. TheBlazikenMaster 22:48, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, first the list article has to be made. After that, merging is as easy as taking the pertinent information about a Pokemon (the intro, a few physical characteristics, one or two sentences about anime) and placing it into the Pokemon's section, then redirecting the article to the list @ #Magikarp.--Zxcvbnm 03:15, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone vandalized my talk page after I redirected Magikarp. Their IP address was 70.255.144.71 and they're from Kansas City.--Zxcvbnm 03:39, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Besides the point that the new list article is not ready to be redirected to yet, the vandalism is possibly and probably unrelated.  --Brandon Dilbeck 03:46, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why delete the redirect? It's not like the rest of the article will affect the content of the Magikarp section. Doing that would just make it harder to organize articles once they're merged.--Zxcvbnm 04:36, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Next merging should be [[Magikarp]] and [[Gyarados]] 

message: I personally believe that each legendary Pokemon (or trio of legendaries, as in the Mirages, the Dogs, the Regis, and the Enlightened) should get their own article seperate from the "List of Pokemon", because I think that the legendary Pokemon are (with the exception of Pikachu) the most covered and most widely known Pokemon in existence. Of course, you don't have to listen to me...I'm just posting my belief here.Leprechaun Gamer 18:41, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You're talking about legends here, so no need to put an exception of something that isn't legend. Well, I agree, with exception of Zapdos, Articuno, Moltres, Entei, Suicune, Raikou, Registeel, Regice and Regirock, they should be merged into three articles. Especially Entei, Suicune and Raikou, as they all have similar locations in the games. And especially the Regis since they had the same movie appearance. Well, we aren't gonna merge them into lists, we are gonna merge them by evolution, or if the pokémon doesn't have any evolution, we put them together if they have a lot in common. Last time I remember Pidgeot was on the list, but got linked from it into the right article, so I see no problem with adding Rayquaza or Mewtwo into a list, since they can be linked to their independent articles. TheBlazikenMaster 18:56, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem is that some legends still don't have much information surrounding them, and their articles will probably turn into a summary of their respective movies anyway. Might as well merge them and put the extra information into the movie page instead. Plus, "most widely known Pokemon in existence" might apply to Mewtwo, but not to other lesser known legendaries such as Regice, Giratina, Kyogre, etc. It depends what you classify as known.--Zxcvbnm 04:31, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Legendaries 

message: I can't seem to find that agreement here. Pidgey evolutionary line hasn't been merged to the list , neither has Lunatone and Solrock. TTN said that it's been agreed that the pokémon are going to be merged by list, instead of articles of evolutionary line, or big simulations. Can someone direct me to that discussion? TheBlazikenMaster 22:38, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm seeing it towards the bottom of New discussion for merging. Not everyone may fully agree on it, but it is much better than sitting around doing nothing. TTN 22:42, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the surge came mostly from the Stunky AFD, along with the realization that whether we do Teggles' plan (which was once my own) to make it as a series of lists or PokeZap's plan of evo-line articles with series of lists to back them up would cause the development of the list series of pages anyway, since the series is conceptually used in both plans. Erik Jensen (Appreciate|Laugh At) 05:49, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But I think we agree that the evo-line pages would be as bad as the individuals. --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 14:50, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Keeping the evo-line pages would make the articles even more cluttered, since they're still not sorted by name or number.--Zxcvbnm 17:01, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Well, Mewtwo has had 2? 3? movies based on it, so it's a probable keep. Jigglypuff was a minor anime character, so I don't think so. We should probably lean towards merging for most of them, just to instill balance.
--Zxcvbnm 17:01, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We shouldn't just have some pokémon in list completely off topic to others, and other in evolutionary articles, that makes confusion. We should decide whether we want list or evolutionary lines, we can't have either, we have to have both, or neither, otherwise confusion will come. In fact it's starting to confuse me, since I couldn't keep up to date with this project as I accidentally deleted it from my watchlist, I've feeling I'm too late to have my point of view about the listing. TheBlazikenMaster 18:00, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We've already decided that a list would be better than evolutionary line articles. Why don't you help merge the evolutionary lines so we can mass-delete their respective articles?--Zxcvbnm 18:10, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Weird, I was just going to suggest this idea myself when I come onto Wikipedia and find that is all happening. It's a good idea in my opinion as there are too many very short articles on Pokemon otherwise. Keep up the good work. - .:Alex:. 18:37, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

text: New comments to the bottom! Anyways, people, this is a matter of consideration, we're having too many mergist Nazis around. While it has been decided to merge them all into lists, it is dumb to redirect when the list isn't complete!! --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 06:50, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In which cases has this happened? --Teggles 07:32, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It happened with Magikarp. --Brandon Dilbeck 07:35, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just keep reverting on sight. And of course, don't do it yourself. --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 13:30, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What's the problem with merging Pokemon articles to incomplete pages? The section on that specific Pokemon is there; if they want to see another, they can go to the unmerged page temporarily. It's much faster than having to merge everything when you're finished. Anyway, you should probably keep the pages up till the section is done from now on, but please don't unmerge any more pages.--Zxcvbnm 13:44, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem is that it looks stupid when it's incomplete. Merging's to be done only when the thing's complete. And it takes barely five minutes to redirect twenty pages. Don't jump the gun now that the decision's been made, take everything calmly. It'll probably be another three months at the least before all the articles are merged, and that's perfectly OK, as Wikipedia isn't working towards a deadline. --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 15:55, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We ought to try and finish merging one page before starting another. I've noticed that there have been anons (probably kids) trying to add things to the blank sections where it isn't needed. Finishing one page quickly would prevent any confusion.--Zxcvbnm 02:30, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, but linking to the page before it's finished just prompts anons to add more stuff. --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 02:58, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  When was it decided to merge the articles by list instead of evolutionary line? 

message: Although I don't agree with the process that people are merging the articles, I will accept that it probably needs to be done this way. One thing that is bothering me but is that people are redirecting Pokemon to incomplete pages, or even completely blank sections for certain pokemon. Please at least ensure the page is completed before doing these redirects. 61.88.131.144 05:07, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: New comments to the bottom! Anyways, people, this is a matter of consideration, we're having too many mergist Nazis around. While it has been decided to merge them all into lists, it is dumb to redirect when the list isn't complete!! --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 06:50, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In which cases has this happened? --Teggles 07:32, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It happened with Magikarp. --Brandon Dilbeck 07:35, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just keep reverting on sight. And of course, don't do it yourself. --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 13:30, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What's the problem with merging Pokemon articles to incomplete pages? The section on that specific Pokemon is there; if they want to see another, they can go to the unmerged page temporarily. It's much faster than having to merge everything when you're finished. Anyway, you should probably keep the pages up till the section is done from now on, but please don't unmerge any more pages.--Zxcvbnm 13:44, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem is that it looks stupid when it's incomplete. Merging's to be done only when the thing's complete. And it takes barely five minutes to redirect twenty pages. Don't jump the gun now that the decision's been made, take everything calmly. It'll probably be another three months at the least before all the articles are merged, and that's perfectly OK, as Wikipedia isn't working towards a deadline. --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 15:55, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We ought to try and finish merging one page before starting another. I've noticed that there have been anons (probably kids) trying to add things to the blank sections where it isn't needed. Finishing one page quickly would prevent any confusion.--Zxcvbnm 02:30, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, but linking to the page before it's finished just prompts anons to add more stuff. --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 02:58, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Only Merging Pokemon When Whole Page of 20 is Complete!

message: Just in case anybody is feeling like it, List of Pokémon (481-493), List of Pokémon (141-160), and List of Pokémon (181-200) are merged, and ready to be cleaned and all of that stuff. TTN 00:21, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Complete lists

message: Magikarp seems to have been moved to a subsection of the Wikipedia:Wikipedians page.  I noticed this just now with a big picture of Wikipe-tan looking me in the face. -Jeske (v^_^v) 19:43, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It works for me. TTN 19:45, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The tabs up top lead to Wikipedia:Wikipedians for me Scratch that, maybe I need to check my link on my watchlist. -Jeske (v^_^v) 19:49, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who Moved Magikarp? 

message: Event Pokes were planned to get their own articles, right?  Vikrant Phadkay 16:04, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hopefully we decided that. What's next!? Pikachu getting redirected!? FunPika 16:28, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We probably did not. The D/P event Pokes have been redirected. FunPika 16:30, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is based upon the possibility of real world info and sources. Only Pikachu and possibly a few others like Mewtwo have that possibility. Being legendary doesn't mean that it is possible (though it does help). TTN 16:33, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What about Deoxys? This Pokemon seems hard to adequately cover in a small section because of its four separate forms and movie role, unlike Stunky. Deoxys may have possible real-world info in its usage by NASA some years back, so maybe that should keep its page. The main reason the D/P event pokes were redirected is because at the moment there's much less to write about them than Mew and Celebi, but maybe there'll be some real-world stuff happening with the D/P eent pokes in the future. Erik Jensen (Appreciate|Laugh At) 17:20, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We can keep it around as a decent possibility, but like with Mewtwo, we shouldn't completely rule out merging. That probably won't be decided until a while after the merging is done, so there is a while to work on them. TTN 17:44, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Right. And a lot of fans would likely consider Mew more world-known than Deoxys, so... Best not to turn it into a redirect anywhere until much later, after the list pages are made, which is when we decide whether or not. Erik Jensen (Appreciate|Laugh At) 18:08, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: They should actually assert something or have a decent backing for information to still keep the article. Mewtwo has an actual role in the the games, the movies, whatever things expand upon his creation, and all that stuff. That leaves a reasonable possibility for sources. Deoxys has the NASA thing that you mentioned, so it may be worth leaving. All Mew has are the giveaways, which may be better placed in another article and linked to anyways due to multiple ones sharing the same characteristic. TTN 18:17, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm not going to really fight over this or anything. I just don't want people claiming that the rest should stay because Mew has stayed and other junk like that. It just seems best to say "(Possibility of) Sources or no article." TTN 18:20, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Redirecting Mew is sort of like the astronomical union making Pluto a dwarf planet. Sure, it was in a movie and is sort of famous for Red and Blue, but it doesn't have much background information and would only fill up the article with a summary of the "find Mew" cheat or the movie appearance. On the other hand, Mewtwo has a huge backstory with Team Rocket and whatnot.--Zxcvbnm 22:11, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

text: If the creature can maintain real-world information other than revelation/release dates and mass-species merchandise, then it should have an article. Things like merchandise specifically designed for the creature... development of the creature... use in promotions by other companies... seriously people, if this stuff doesn't exist, there's no way the creature should have an article. Otherwise the article will never deservedly reach Featured Article status, it'll simply be a giant plot summary. --Teggles 23:00, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: AND WHY SHOULD WE MOVE MEW?

message: PrincessKirlia is saying that articles recently delisted from GA-status (such as Mudkip and Bulbasaur) instead passed (Examples: , ).  I have warned her, but could someone see if she has done the same to any other articles? -Jeske (v^_^v) 02:41, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[User:PrincessKirlia]] 

message: I'm ok with pokemon and their evolved forms having one article, but putting 20 different pokemon on one page is stupid. All 20 pokemon on the page lose their pages, and lots of IMPORTANT information is being lost.--Ridley76 19:52, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why is it stupid, and what important information has been lost? --Teggles 01:20, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That info belongs on a fansite, not in an encyclopedia.--Zxcvbnm 15:18, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Have you ever heard of Bulbapedia? Fan stuff, amazingly, goes there. -WarthogDemon 05:07, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone who's serious enough to perform research should be serious enough to use better sources. --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 12:19, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Putting 20 pokemon perpage is STUPID 

message: Could someone from here keep an eye on Pokémon evolution? PrincessKirlia is adding lists of Pokémon that don't evolve, and both of us are about to exceed 3RR. -Jeske (v^_^v) 01:59, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll take it for a bit. I'm hounding my watchlist at the moment for this, so it's not out of the way.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 02:01, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Geez!  Mind if I helped out there? -Jeske (v^_^v) 02:07, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ..yeah let's trade. ;D:—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 02:11, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Can't soeone just report her to WP:ANI? --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 14:51, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[User:PrincessKirlia]] (Again) 

message: why? and why are the first gen pokemon that only ones with article, what the hell is going on here?--DSDark 21:22, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you look at the above discussions, you'll see that they're being merged because they don't have enough real world information to stand on their own. All of the articles besides a few notable ones will be merged eventually. TTN 21:33, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  what 's with the merging? 

message: This is my attempt to merge all the existing PokéNavbars, and then some. Thoughts?? --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 03:44, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: HELLO, ANYONE HOME? There're merges besides the megamergers up for discussion, gang! --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 03:47, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems to work out. It can probably be condensed here and there, but otherwise it seems fine. TTN 03:58, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Condensed as in? Tips, dude, I want this ready before copying it into . --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 06:30, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Consolidated navbar 

message: * List of Pokémon items
* Pokémon types
* Pokémon moves
* Pokémon evolution
* PokéDex
* Pokémon Gym
* Shiny Pokémon
* Pokémon game features
Why do these exist? I can imagine PokéDex might have some real-world context, having been featured as a Hasbro product, but Pokémon game features looks like it should be redirected to Pokémon game mechanics, and the rest look like pointless gamecruft that should be sections of Pokémon game mechanics. --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 14:04, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please, enough with the cruft talk! Every time I hear that word, I get a little more peeved. I hate when people categorize things as cruft so very much. Everything in those articles, at best, can be merged into the game mechanics/features articles, like the Shiny Pokemon article. And the Gyms article could probably be merged into the main series article. But the contents of those artilces are all good and are in no way cruft. Toastypk 16:23, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Type matchups aren't what I'd term encyclopedic info. Neither are evolution methods. WP:NOT#GUIDE. Also, when does Nintendo use the term "Shiny"? --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 16:27, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You can cruft with this, or you can cruft with that. I've got my AFD, my weapon of choice. YO!--Zxcvbnm 17:32, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Take them to AfD then. I'll guillotine Pokémon in other media in the meanwhile. --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 03:00, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And whenever you take something to AfD, make sure to mention it on the Noticeboard. Looks very backstabbish otherwise. --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 03:04, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Individual game mechanics 

message: I definitely see a point to get rid of most of the seperate articles per species, but the process seems to be highly seems to be highly unorganized and not to be based on a broad consensus, as evidenced by the existence of articles based on number ranges (e.g. List of Pokémon (61-80)), evolution lines (e.g. Abra evolutionary line) and associative groupings (Lunatone and Solrock). There is both redundancy and inconsistency between these variants and remaining articles in the traditional scheme. Charmander and Charmeleon still have their own articles, while Charizard already redirects to a list, etc.
If there has already been a real consensus on how to proceed (which I can't see from going over the talk page), I'd ask you to state your points shortly. If not, I'd recommend to talk this out a little more thorougly. I'd prefer merging relevant information, then trying to InterWiki as much feasible content (which wouldn't meet WP guidelines though) as possible and only redirect after this process has finished. I can't stand the present state of the Pokémon articles. Don Cuan 21:24, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The group articles were going to be the solution before the lists, but they soon became pointless. They'll be removed as the Pokemon are merged. The single lists are still being worked on, and all of them will eventually be redirected. It's a shaky process, but it'll be over with in a few weeks. TTN 21:43, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Uh, the only reason the individual and evolutionary line articles are there are because they haven't been merged yet. Please read a little more into it before you start criticizing this.....--Zxcvbnm 21:53, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You're talking about weeks, which I think is indeed the problem. How can you want to leave the articles in this state for several weeks? And reading into the discussion would sound great, if it wasn't too cluttered for bystanders to look trough. --Don Cuan 07:35, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no deadline. Work is in progress. --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 08:01, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Important information? Keep in mind that WP:NOT, one of Wikipedia's pillars, says that these articles should have "real-world context and sourced analysis, offering detail on a work's development, impact or historical significance"; so important would mean real-world information. Feel free to give an example of important information lost. (Hint: there is none)--Teggles 04:43, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

text: See WP:NOTINHERITED. That makes only the franchise notable, not every individual species. Also see WP:NOT#INIDSCRIMINATE and WP:NOT#GUIDE, as also WP:FICT. --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 12:21, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Concerning the Pokémon article mergers/redirects 

message: I was thinking of starting an article called List of lists of Pokémon that contained all the Pokemon lists inside it, then link List of Pokémon to it on top. (For numbered lists of Pokemon, see List of lists of Pokémon). This would act corollary to the category. Plus, an article with the title List of numbered lists of Pokémon would be too ungainly.--Zxcvbnm 02:40, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just using the main list and adding the list template to it should do the trick. There's no need to create any weird articles (it would have to be a disambiguation page instead of an article in the way you're proposing it). TTN 02:50, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: On second thought, adding a link to the category should work.--Zxcvbnm 03:17, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Doing both would be the best. Putting the Pokemon directory template on all the List pages including the main list, and putting all those pages in the category, should be enough to make it easy for navigation based on the lists themselves. And of course, one would search for Silcoon and get section-redirected to Silcoon's section in a list page, with most of the other Pokemon. Erik Jensen (Appreciate|Laugh At) 17:25, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

text: "Lists of Pokémon" would follow the standard. --Teggles 04:30, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of lists of Pokémon 

message: I've tried to fix the infoboxes with minor success. For example: List of Pokémon (1-20)#Charmander. All evolves to boxes look like this. The only ones I've been able to correct are the ones that didn't evolve into anything. How do we fix the others? -WarthogDemon 17:28, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What's wrong with them? They're misaligned? - that's because the image is supposed to be beside the box. I can fix it if that's the problem. --Teggles 04:32, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I just checked and whatever the problem was appears to have been fixed. The problem was that the "Evolves Into" box were all messed up links. -WarthogDemon 04:36, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

text: This was the problem, someone reverted. hbdragon88 18:39, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah thanks for figuring that out for me. I'll be sure to check the template pages next time something doesn't look right. -WarthogDemon 18:40, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  How do you fix the boxes? 

message: Are we treating it as a nonnotable bit of information or do the people making these articles not know enough about the trading card game to make mention of it? Last time I checked, the Pokémon TCG regained the position of top selling TCG after Yu-Gu-Oh had been on top for a while, so it can't be completely devoid to make mention of. --ArrEmmDee 18:32, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I suggested to make an article about the Trading Card Game with a list of what Pokemon are in what series. Putting it in the lists creates a lot of redundancy. --Teggles 04:27, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  TCG in Grouped Articles 

message: Perhaps it'd be nice to add small templates to go along with each picture of the pokemon? Obviously we can't use the old infoboxes, but using Bastiodon's infobox as an example, maybe an infobox that just has generation, height, and weight? -WarthogDemon 03:23, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem with your idea is that making the infoboxes vertical would increase the whitespace of the list sections. Plus, who cares about height and weight, it's not like we're comparing boxers here. However, it might be a good idea to reinstate the height and weight in the horizontal infobox, since there's empty space there.--Zxcvbnm 03:32, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that's what I meant. Sorry if I made it confusing. I wasn't suggesting we touch the horizontal infoboxes at all. Just add a second under the picture. This was suggested on Talk:List of Pokémon (421-440) and even though I'm a little iffy - I think this could be a good idea. I dont' think it would be a deviation from Wiki's standards. It'd just be adding a little more info along with the one-paragragh of text that each Pokemon has already. I would suggest, though, we not add "abilities" as that might make the lists look a bit like a gamer's guide then. -WarthogDemon 03:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's not what Zxcvbnm said. Simply add a "height" and "weight" parameter to the horizontal infobox. I did this before, but TTN reverted it because he claims it invites cruft. --Teggles 04:28, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I can understand abilities would invite fancruft, but how would height and weight? The pictures themselves could, technically, invite it Well as I said, I was iffy on this. Plus it's just my rewording of someone else's suggestion on aforementioned talk page. I could go either way, honestly. -WarthogDemon 04:38, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I remember TTN removing the height and weight, but I think it could be interesting and that it should be back. A few numbers aren't that crufty, right?--Zxcvbnm 13:33, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmmm, I don't have a strong opinion either way. They're not really important, but they're definitely verifiable. I'd say the default should be "include". --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 14:35, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd say that it would be a good idea to include height and weight. Just looking at the images, I would not be able to tell, for example, that Wailord is any larger than Walimer. Yeah... I don't see how that invites cruft any more than type does. You Can't See Me! 16:17, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I just see it as unnecessary, but I guess it doesn't matter that much. That'll have to be the absolute limit, though. TTN 17:05, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed on the absolute limit. Where I had previously suggested add the generations, I take that back as well. Only the height and weight can be considered; nothing more. -WarthogDemon 19:31, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Tiny Infobox For The Pictures Too Maybe? 

message: Should we make pages for them? We have all the gym leaders, and even the frontier brains. If there is, ignore my comment. ~Crowstar~crow calls 23:44, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Each one of them doesn't have a page, we just have lists like List of Kanto Gym Leaders. In any case, if there's sufficient information about them, just go ahead and create List of Pokémon Colosseum/XD bosses and List of Pokémon Battle Revolution bosses. If not, just list them on List of Pokémon characters. Remember, the keyword is the amount of content... No point making an article that's only ever gonna consist of 5 lines. Cheers, The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 14:30, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I know Team Snagem and Cypher used to have sections on Pokémon crime syndicates, but they seem to have been cut. That seems the best place for those two anyways.Spriteless 15:21, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you're looking for the recently deleted List of Pokémon video game villains. I don't remember seeing them on syndicates ever, but someone who's played the games should just be bold and add them there. --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 15:29, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pokemon Colloseum/XD/Battle Revolution bosses 

message: I'm not opposing with merging to list, not really supporting it either, but I'm wondering about the future.
When we're finished with the merging will there be ANYTHING else to do? I have big feeling that this WikiProject will meet its end once we're finished with the merging, as we mostly edited the pokémon species articles, so tell me, will this WikiProject meet its end? TheBlazikenMaster 14:17, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I suppose the majority of participants will fade away, but a handful of us shall stay to look after various articles... There'll still be around 300 of them, I guess. So the Project probably won't die out, instead, it'll be Demented. --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 14:34, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, I know it's kinda off topic, but do you think it would be good idea if I'd join Bulbipedia? After all, the good info of pokémon don't belong to Wikipedia. TheBlazikenMaster 14:40, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As a matter of fact, it'd be great if every Pokémon inclusionist working on Wikipedia joined Bulbapedia... That site is pathetic now, but it has potential, and might well be the next source for all things Pokémon if only people work on it. At least then our external link sections can include, with good reason, a link to Bulbapedia, for fans who want more information. --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 14:50, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You can still help make these better. Other than the fact that they aren't bloated, they're pretty much the same. They need sources (real world and in-univserse), and they need some copyeditting. TTN 15:17, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

text: THIS IS THE PCP!  But, um, we should probably go for a serious effort to GA and possibly FA the core articles – the games and the two main Pokémon and Pokémon (video game) articles. hbdragon88 03:36, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

text: What the hell are you talking about? Improve the lists! Get them all to Featured List. --Teggles 09:36, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, the Wikiproject will probably become inactive (since there's less articles to maintain) but now everyone's freed up to transfer all the excess information to Bulbapedia (where it actually is needed). However, I agree that the main article should be featured, as well as all the lists.--Zxcvbnm 14:27, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Important note on this . . . I just learned minutes ago that the licenses between the two wikis aren't directly compatible so a simple copy/pasting is not acceptable - when we transfer, we need to reword. Sorry if this has already been stated but I thought I should make it clear if it hasn't. -WarthogDemon 20:04, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, that even applies to content removed from Wikipedia articles? Erik Jensen (Appreciate|Laugh At) 02:12, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we just have to reword, rephrase. Read here: . -WarthogDemon 02:17, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The future. 

message: Someone needs to keep an eye on this. Rb9 keeps on reverting the redirect. Let's not be too harsh, since Rb9 is new, we should guide that user, but I don't know how to do it, please help. TheBlazikenMaster 21:10, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Post a warning on his talk page. If he keeps reverting, report him to be blocked.--Zxcvbnm 14:28, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, but I think it's too harsh to give the user warning just yet, the user edited the very first edit only two days ago. TheBlazikenMaster 15:55, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Warnings are intended for new users. If you try warning an experienced one, you get a  splatted onto your TP. --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 16:06, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Magikarp]] 

message: I have noticed something. The redirect pages are often being reverted to unmerged version, or replaced by some info. Should we ask an admin for full protection to prevent further things like that? TheBlazikenMaster 02:06, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:RFPP is that-a-way. -Jéské (v^_^v) 02:07, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, it probably won't do, since there are very many merged pokémon articles, it will take a very long time to list them all there. TheBlazikenMaster 02:10, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm suggesting that you request protection for each page as it becomes a hot spot. -Jéské (v^_^v) 02:12, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why don't we just request protection for every..single..individual article at once, then just leave it permanently protected? Since there are absolutely no changes that need to be made to them (besides random categories?), then there shouldn't be a problem.--Zxcvbnm 02:21, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But would histories still be available? It'd be rather hard to get information from the pokearticles for bulbapedia if we couldn't access them. Unless I'm confused on what full-protection applies... -WarthogDemon 02:23, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You can still access page histories while full-protected; you just can't edit the pages in question. -Jéské (v^_^v) 02:33, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Then I'm all for it. Let's just hope there's someone willing to protect 493 pages... -WarthogDemon 02:59, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Shall I list them all at once then over there? -WarthogDemon 16:57, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Protection requires constant vandalism or really bad edit warring. A few people a week isn't enough to protect one article, let alone a hundred. TTN 17:11, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's what I was thinking. However, how much is enough for one article? -WarthogDemon 17:14, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not if we count all the Pokemon articles as one single mass. Basically, though one article might get vandalized a few times a week, combined vandalism to ALL 493 articles adds up to much more. Therefore protection is needed for maintenance reasons. Plus, it's not breaking any Wikipedia laws since users can still edit the lists to their heart's content. The merging achieved consensus and anyone who reverts it is causing unencyclopedic content.--Zxcvbnm 18:11, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Full Protection. 

message: So, as I was looking at Gardevoir, I realized Kirlia doesn't have Gallade as it's evolution...so as I looked on, a lot of Pokémon don't have their other evolutions...Gloom, Slowpoke, and such. The only one I saw that did was Poliwhirl, and even then it was "Poliwrath/Politoed"; in a red link. Is this a work in progress or is there nothing about this yet? -Sukecchi 11:23, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, someone familiar with those needs to fix that. TTN 14:41, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Read, soeone familiar with the templates. Wikigineers, to work!!! --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 14:46, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, now all linking needs to be done manually, but everything will work like it should. TTN 17:22, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Slide evolutions, buku! 

message: Was that really necessary? I mean, now there will be edits in several days of the members re-adding themselves, that's not what I'd call cleaning. TheBlazikenMaster 19:34, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: it was to cleanup the page itself, not the edit history. We did this last year too b/c a lot of ppl come here and just add their name, then leave wikipedia altogether in a few months. There were at least three ppl (other than myself) still on the list who have appeared, for all intents and purposes, uninterested in contributing to pokemon articles. Rather than make a unilateral judgement about anyone in particular, it's fairest to just clear everyone off and redo the list from scratch. I only did this b/c there has been precendent for it and it seemed necessary with 175 names on the roster. I'm betting about half will readd themselves. -ΖαππερΝαππερ BabelAlexandria 23:47, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe the Final Fantasy Wiki Project has a monthly roll call, so an annual cleanup doesn't seem too bad in comparison.  Personally I haven't had much time to devote to the project (or Wikipedia in general) so I won't be adding myself back just yet. Bhamv 06:03, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clearing up [[WP:PCP#Participants|Participants]]. 

message: Unless anyone's noticed, we have a bunch of links on the main WikiProject article to various Pokemon articles for being GAs, former GAs, and former FAs. Most of the species links go to articles that have already been merged into lists. What should we do about the links, and, more importantly, what message does this send to users thinking of joining the project? Leprechaun Gamer 20:50, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I agree, they're pointless, I would do it myself, but I'm just too nervous. TheBlazikenMaster 20:58, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If anyone wants me too, I'll put the bell around the cats neck so to speak. I don't thing we'd be sending a negative message . . . I must admit I was surprised at first about the merges. However, had I known about the merges before I became a member, I still would've done so. Of course I only speak for myself, but I don't think we'd detract THAT many... -WarthogDemon 21:08, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, the article links have been brought down to the five remaining GA articles that have not been merged, either because no one has gotten to them yet, or they just won't be.  It looks like Pokemon and Pokemon Diamond and Pearl are safe no matter what, but what remains to be seen is whether Mewtwo, Pikachu, or Golduck will be merged or brought under GA review any time soon.  Torchic is also still an A-class, so that needs to be addressed one way or another as well, but either way we didn't lose everything.  All the old links were just removed entirely. Nall 03:08, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Links 

message: Talk:Pokémon#Use of PokeBeach.com Info/Pics --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 15:21, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If there are no objections, I will handle this. WPM is essentially right on all points. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 20:00, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It was coming. Even if WPM hadn't objected to our use of his images, we'd still have a problem - twenty non-free images per page is an issue on its own. We'll have to find a way to work around this... You Can't See Me! 20:07, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Shall I remove all images for now? Or keep them up? -WarthogDemon 20:09, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: uh.... about 50% of our content is his, and there really is no reason to remove it all. his complaint is about attribution, something easily solved - the largest issue is TCG info and scans which need to be sourced immediately or removed. UCSM, there is no "magic number" for fair-use images, it's how they are being used. Take a look at media-related featured lists for scores of precedent. gah.... ikeep getting sucked in...... -ΖαππερΝαππερ BabelAlexandria 20:43, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image problem 

message: Okay. Talked to WPM, and he had three problems, all of which are solvable.
#I confirmed that the transparent Sugimori images do originate with Pokebeach and that they are indeed promotional art. (He wasn't terribly forthcoming on where they came from beyond that.) He did have a ton of work done on them, procuring them and making them transparent, so he really didn't appreciate having them taken without credit by other sites.That said, he's amenable to Wikipedia using them, with simple conditions roughly in line with Wikipedia's typical fair-use guidelines. All we need to do is reduce the width in both articles and image pages to 110px and ditch the unnecessary transparency, and give credit to Pokebeach for the images. The details are here (which will be incorporated into his general "Don't steal my images, please" when he redesigns the site), and while we don't typically use with-permission images, we are still adhering to Wikipedia's fair-use standards. The alternative is no possible fair-use claim due to explicit non-permission, so WPM's being pretty reasonable.
#The card scans, in general, need to go, unless they were uploaded by the scanner. We need to make this part of the project rules; swiping card scans off of random websites isn't acceptable when we can just scan our own cards. Plus, no sense having to step on the rights of two coypright owners when we can limit it to just one.
#There's some copyvio text copy-pasted from Pokebeach. Delete that on sight, obviously.
We have a lot of work to do on the images. They need to be reuploaded to 110px width, the transparency needs to go, and a new "This image came from" message needs to be added. , when it turns blue, will be a substable template for linking to Beach. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 21:54, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Do we have an easy way to remove the transparency? I've tried it in GIMP, but I'm not too familiar with stuff like it. It ends up really bad around the edges or the transparency still sticks. TTN 22:27, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: i'll subst the image template when it's ready (apparently it isn't yet?) with AWB, just leave me a note on my talk page.  As for removing the transparaency. See if he'd be willing to email me a .zip file with all 400+ images. It would be a pain in the ass to have to right click and redownload them all.  I can just give them a solid background matching wikipedia white in photoshop, but there's no way i'm gonna spend the extra time downloading them when i have to make the changes by hand (no AWB feature for auto-uploads quite yet... but maybe we can ask a bot). -ΖαππερΝαππερ BabelAlexandria 18:49, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll ask WPM about that for you. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 23:01, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Image solution

message: It's easy to batch convert them when you have all of the originals (even though it took an hour). :p
http://www.pokebeach.com/kensugimori/wikipedia.zip
Also, could you change that one statement to: "Larger and transparent images are available there."
Could you guys tell me when you have downloaded them so I can delete the ZIP? Thank you! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Water Pokemon Master (talk • contribs).
:i've downloaded the .zip  would have done it sooner but was expecting a msg on my talk. pray tell, how do i remove the transparency in a batch convert (never had to do it before)... will converting to BMP throw out transparancy data? -ΖαππερΝαππερ BabelAlexandria 01:43, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Those images are finished. The transparency is removed, and they are to what I specified. All you have to do is upload them to their pages, and you're done! :) Water Pokemon Master 07:04, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: yeah... i saw that... oh well.  I need to get some feedback from the group before I go ahead with this.  I've mass renamed all the images in my possession to "Pokemon lead image #.png" I did this because I've always felt that undescriptive names like :Image:388.png were unhelpful for wikipedia.  To keep everything consistent I'm asking if you'd rather have a mass upload of the new images (because Images apparently can't be moved to new names) and tagging all the old ones with , or is this a non-problem and we should just update existing images? -ΖαππερΝαππερ BabelAlexandria 21:16, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Cool. I've long been slightly worried about having the Pokebeach images on Wikipedia during the time when it wasn't formally agreed with the webmaster to have them there, unlike what's turning out now. :) We might be told off for not paying attention to Wikimedia's "Avoid Copyright Paranoia" guideline, but I honestly have to wonder how that guideline could ever be considered seriously by any sensible Wikimedia project... It's like saying "don't worry about causing lawsuits until you're the subject of them". Heh. Erik Jensen (Appreciate|Laugh At) 06:24, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Finished Sugimori Images 

message: I have constructed an article index so that the Pokemon articles can be seen as a whole and what their condition is. Feel free to add any that are not listed, and add their GA or FA symbol next to them if they are at that quality. Judgesurreal777 20:17, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Pokémon/index|Pokemon Index]]

message: I've noticed a problem with the small tables at the beginning of every list entry: the evolvesfrom/to tags refuse to recognize a Pokemon name that is also a non-Pokemon-related word, such as Gloom, Persian, or Golem. Anybody know how to fix this? SubStandardDeviation 23:07, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In the link simply type: Gloom (Pokémon) and that'll solve it. -WarthogDemon 23:10, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If (for some reason) there is another related article, you should put on the pokémon section "X redirects here, for other uses see X (disambiguation)", that footnote isn't required to be at the top of the page. Take Petalburg for example. TheBlazikenMaster 23:12, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't use a "for other uses" tag because the problem text is within a table, not the entry itself. Having some tables with links and others without will look odd, but I suppose it has to be done. SubStandardDeviation 00:27, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The list pages

message: What should I do about categories like this
:es:Mudkip
when merging an article?--ZXCVBNM 00:31, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Look at what I did to Pokémon crime syndicates. I think there's no other way. --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 14:22, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think you're supposed to put the links directly on the page. They're more like categories. But an idea would be to place all of them at the bottom.--ZXCVBNM 14:52, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But then they'd all jus pile up on the right left side, with no indication of what link refers to what article. --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 16:36, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Foreign language Categories 

message: All his contribs are Pokévandalism. And sneaky ones, including hoax articles. I'm still not sure what spedies to apply to them. --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 03:13, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Speaking of Pokevandalism, anyone else notice User:Meganium and his/her legion of pokepuppets? -WarthogDemon 03:19, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Cut the anecdotes and get to reverting him on Pocket Monsters Special protagonists, will you? --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 03:26, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry if that went off-topic. I'll try and keep an eye on him. -WarthogDemon 03:29, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Cheers. I've gone and reported him to WP:AIV, but it might be ages before an admin strolls by. --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 03:30, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Think I got it cleaned up! -WarthogDemon 03:39, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Muhahahahaha! Keep up the good work! --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 05:43, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[User:Championalex]] 

message: I merged it into a list, I didn't include any anime appearance since they weren't important enough in my opinion. Maybe the Deoxys movie is important, I just copied the biological section, if that's the wrong way to do it, please tell me the best way to merge, I need to know the best way to merge (if I didn't merge this right) because I'm going to merge Huntail tomorrow. TheBlazikenMaster 00:38, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You should copy the nihongo template. Descriptions that can be found in the picture usually aren't necessary. You should remove any references to sites with 'dex information. We need to switch over to quotes and the Template:Cite video game (I guess you can replace them if you want). Then just clean them as you see fit. TTN 00:51, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, there are others too in my watchlist that haven't been merged yet, I decided to help on the merging instead of sitting on my ass doing nothing about it. Thanks for the info, I will try to keep that all in mind when I merge the Huntail article, and also when I merge Steelix. TheBlazikenMaster 01:01, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Reminds me I need to get to work on Pocket Monsters Special protagonists. Cheers. The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 02:45, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Speaking of sitting on our asses doing nothing, I'm starting to think this page needs an archive and pronto. :P Okay, actually there's been a lot of great work put into creating the lists. Erik Jensen (Appreciate|Laugh At) 05:41, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Plusle]]