Template talk:Avril Lavigne

message: First, kudos to User:Andyroost for the collapsible template layout.  My motivation for this edit was to improve readability.  Short, wide templates are easier to read than tall, narrow ones.  Feel free to continue the cleanup and any feedback is welcome. — MrDolomite • Talk 18:56, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adjusted layout February 2007 

message: why does someone collapse the singles part to singles and other singles? it makes no sense since they are all "singles"  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.3.236.86 (talk) 02:47, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  SINGLES 

message: There is a discussion on the Avril Lavigne article regarding the replacement of this template and the Avril Lavigne singles template to form one condensed template included above (click [show] to view the template).  If there are any objections to this change, please refer to the discussion previously linked and state your reasons for objection.  If there are no reasonable objections to this change, the template will be replaced on 27 March 2010. ~ [ Scott M. Howard ]:[ Talk ] ~ 17:09, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Replace? 

message: This new album being added to the template appears to be an unofficial remix album released by Sony in the UK (it rather reminds me of Evanescence's "Not For Your Ears" bootleg album--notable in its own right, but not as an officially released album).  I don't think it's notable enough to be included here as there are likely dozens of other albums that fit the same criteria that aren't included here. ~ [ Scott M. Howard ] ~ [ Talk ]:[ Contribs ] ~ 00:12, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Essentials Mixes (Remix Album) 

message: Can we please change it back to neutral. Avril's colors are not all hot pink anymore. The profile picture and the hot pink is very outdated. If ANY color, go with green to represent her latest album cover. The hot pink looks terrible  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.188.232.237 (talk) 23:42, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi IP, thanks for your suggestion! What do you think of a green version? Feel free to tweak it if you'd like. – Kerαunoςcopia◁galaxies 00:04, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a little experimental, but the template is now pink for all articles and green for Goodbye Lullaby, "What the Hell", and "Smile". Seeing as how Avril's "Forbidden Rose" perfume still uses the black/pink/purple color motif, I don't see her as having left these themes behind. I added documentation explaining the color change, and there is now a sandbox which contains (at the moment) the green code. I will add the pink code as well and anyone can go into the history and retrieve either. – Kerαunoςcopia◁galaxies 08:08, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Forbidden Rose was released before the album and is a minor part in her image. Green looks very professional while pink looks childish, and I think a more professional template would look wonderful. I think the green could go a bit darker if we are gonna use green.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.188.232.237 (talk) 23:41, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: True on all accounts, I suppose, though just for the record, "Forbidden Rose" was released in August 2010 and the cover photography for Goodbye Lullaby was completed in January of that year. We don't really know when she decided to actually incorporate "green" into her personal image (obviously recently), but my point is that pinks and purples have been a trademark of hers—mentioned in interviews as well—for years, even after production on her album began in 2008/2009. I agree the green should be darker, possibly grayer; I kept messing with it and eventually moved on to other things. If we get more participation here regarding colors, we can always end up doing a more neutral black/gray scheme or something. Anything is better than the yellow/paste original (a scheme for "solo singers", I believe). I'll work on this some more in a little while. – Kerαunoςcopia◁galaxies 00:58, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

text: Also keep in mind her color for her Black Star Tour is green. Her poster is green, her boots are green, and her hair is green :)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.188.232.237 (talk) 20:04, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Green version

message: I think there might be a much simpler way of coding this template for multiple color usage.  In a way, I like the idea of the automatic determination of whether to display green or pink, but that would require modifying this template's inner codings each time a new article is to use the new color (or if the article is moved to a new name). I think the easiest way to change the color would be to call the template with ,  or , depending on how it's coded as default, etc.  This will make it MUCH easier for future articles to implement the color preference without having to hard-code it into the template itself.
Speaking of hard-coding, we'll have to determine a default color to use first (probably pink) so that  will display pink,  will display green,  will display pink, and  will display pink.  To do this, the parameters would be coded as:
:|titlestyle = 
:Translation: if the template is not sent an additional parameter, make it pink. If there is an additional parameter, and it is "green", make it green; if it is not "green", make it pink.
This also opens the door in case she decides to go blue in the future, or any other color.  Simply adding a |blue= parameter to each of the color switches will make the new option available by calling . ~ [ Scott M. Howard ] ~ [ Talk ]:[ Contribs ] ~ 05:11, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm all for it! I'll start adding the switch function to the sandbox. – Kerαunoςcopia◁galaxies 06:41, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  I also darkened the green in the titlestyle as requested by IP above. – Kerαunoςcopia◁galaxies 07:34, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The coding looks amazing now!  I was going to go ahead and do it last night, but it was approaching 1:30 in the morning and I work at 9... though I've spent many a night in the past coding away until the birds start chirping, I wasn't quite in the mood last night. =D  Thanks a lot for implementing it so well so quickly!  Just that change chopped 1,351 bytes off the total file size so it helps in that respect, too!  (I'm such a technical dork lol) ~ [ Scott M. Howard ] ~ [ Talk ]:[ Contribs ] ~ 01:06, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It was no trouble at all, just two browser windows open and copy/pasting—it was an excellent idea, and I agree, this will save server kitties! I want her to release a blue album now hahaha. – Kerαunoςcopia◁galaxies 01:28, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Coding multiple colors

message: Currently, the images link in the template takes you to :Category:Images of Avril Lavigne, an unfree, no-gallery category on en.wikipedia.org that pretty much has album covers, maybe posters, screenshots, any other unfree images. How would the importance of this category rank against the free images category available at Commons? Should we update the link to go there instead? I'm not sure about having two image links... that might clutter the template up. – Kerαunoςcopia◁galaxies 08:16, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I went ahead and did this after cleaning up the gallery a little bit at the Commons. – Kerαunoςcopia◁galaxies 02:03, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Images 

message: Is this a joke? I Help, When I Can.[12] 05:14, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It looks horrible. It surely doesn't need to be set up in this manner. I'll change it to look more standardized for now. --Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars (talk) 17:00, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hot pink? 

message: The divisions made in the "Studio albums and singles" section of the template add unnecessary bulk to it. The information can be easily conveyed in the typical format. Avril Lavigne does not have enough articles to support such divisions. Chime in everyone. I Help, When I Can.[12] 20:42, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: When I removed the color, I also removed this division. Here is the version I am proposing. I Help, When I Can.[12] 20:44, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

text: I think that separating the singles and albums work just fine. One line break, big deal. Use that argument again when she has 30 singles. There's no need for it. Also, I believe the auto-collapse works just fine, so I say remove it. I Help, When I Can.[12] 21:28, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: When she has 30 singles, obviously things might be different.  Right now she has 15 and divisions work fine.  "One line break, big deal" is exactly what I'm saying (and it is two for people with still the standard 1024x768 fullscreen monitors).  Having the line breaks makes the final size of the template nearly identical either way you look at it so this isn't a major issue.  You've voiced your opinion.  What happened to civil conversation? No need to turn EVERY statement into a competition of opinions. ~ [ Scott M. Howard ] ~ [ Talk ]:[ Contribs ] ~ 21:39, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

text: All I'm doing is telling you what I think of your reasoning. I Help, When I Can.[12] 21:50, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  The divisions 

message: Since the box is locked, I cannot add it to the list of her other songs. An administrator will have to do it instead.--67.84.73.254 (talk) 17:55, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The song only belongs in the discography, if anything.  Unless it's released as a single or has other major impact, there's no reason to include a Nickelback song on the Avril Lavigne template. This template is a navigation box to better move around the Avril Lavigne-related articles only. ~ [ Scott M. Howard ] ~ [ Talk ]:[ Contribs ] ~ 18:14, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  How You Remind Me 

message: Let me place my reasons for the change in format here.  I changed this template from the compound-group format to a single-group format due to a conversation that was had many months ago about how the format looks "bulky". Although, at the time, my analysis concluded that it made no major difference in bulk to have 4 rows dedicated to albums and singles vs. having 3 (or in some cases 4) rows dedicated to albums and singles, the future of the template using that style was called into question.  I felt that it was now time to revert back to the standardized formatting of a Musical Artist Template now that a 5th studio album is approaching, and one new single from that album already announced.  Having 5 rows of albums with only 4 or 5 singles per row does now add unnecessary bulk to the navbox, in my eyes, and having one row for albums and one row for singles solves this issue.  I also believe (though unverified) that having compounded groups may cause accessibility issues with users that use screen readers.  Instead of reading simple lines of Albums and then Singles, they may get a confused bundle of both albums and singles and may not be able to differentiate without the aid of the strictly visual organization.
Another point of interest while reformatting the navbox is the singles.  One edit made during a revert to my change modified the term "Album singles" to simply "singles".  I believe that if a row is titled singles, all singles in the navbox must then be placed in this row.  The "Other songs and singles" row includes singles released by Avril Lavigne, but were not released through studio albums, and labeling both rows as singles add confusion to the box. If the row becomes "Singles", all singles located in the "Other songs and singles" row should then be moved to the "Singles" row (chronologically, of course), and the lower row should be renamed "Other songs" to include songs that Avril has notability but are not singles, studio album singles or otherwise.
I am starting a discussion here because my attempts to contact the user who reverted my original change has unanswered my request for discussion on their talk page, and the user history shows no discussion on his talk page whatsoever (and only 2 article talk page discussion edits in total).  I feel a more public discussion on this subject is in order since this may be considered a major change. ~ [ Scott M. Howard ] ~ [ Talk ]:[ Contribs ] ~ 00:30, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Format 

message: Avril had already released over 15 singles, and there are a lot of songs related to avril so I propose Avril should have a separate template especially for her singles and songs, Avril Lavigne singles. Almost every artist had separate template for their singles like Rihanna, Britney, Kelly; and Avril should need to have also for easy navigation of her singles, and her template is a kinda crowded and unorganized.--Merida08 (talk) 10:53, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Oppose Thank you for bringing this up for discussion. Unfortunately, I see no reason why one template should be broken into two, when one template does the job fine, and is, in my opinion organized well and is easy to read and understand. The Rihanna template has a ridiculous amount of songs and singles on it, so the separation seems somewhat more acceptable in that particular case. However, that doesn't mean there must be a Wikipedia-wide change in how templates are separated out. At Template talk:Kelly Clarkson singles, one person spoke out against the separation of the template with zero discussion following. The creation of that template appears to be a rogue decision on someone's part, unacceptable here (this goes beyond WP:BOLD). At the Britney Spears songs template, again someone said "this really should have been discussed. Just because it was done for Rihanna doesn't mean every artist needs to [have a separate songs template]". The Avril Lavigne template is fine the way it is. If you feel you have a way to improve it beyond this matter here, feel free to discuss that as well. – Kerαunoςcopia◁galaxies 18:22, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

text: Oppose I feel that the introduction of a second template does more harm than good in this case. All song articles which would display this new template would also display the Avril Lavigne template anyway, so why make a break when it doesn't take up a large percentage of the template.  There is an entire article dedicated to all songs related to Avril Lavigne, there's no need to translate that into a template. ~ [ Scott M. Howard ] ~ [ Talk ]:[ Contribs ] ~ 21:28, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Separate template for "Avril Lavigne Singles"

message: I just want to change the whole the thing, like putting each single from each album in one line. 
197.205.19.246 (talk) 16:28, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: Such a change would need consensus, before it was implemented, and as you can see from the sections above, you are unlikely to get it- Arjayay (talk) 16:42, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 30 April 2014 

message: Lavigne, Avril
197.205.19.246 (talk) 16:43, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Note: This seems to be a request to make a new template for singles (perhaps ). That template was merged with this one according to this March 2011 discussion. Anon126 (notify me of responses! / talk / contribs) 19:37, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

text: Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the  template. Since the change that you want is against the consensus of the merge discussion back in March 2011, you will need to acquire a new consensus saying it is a good idea to split them and recreate this template anew. —  (t • e • c) 21:22, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 30 April 2014