Talk:Gregg Berhalter

message: It has been suggested that the quote from Mr. Berhalter is inherently POV and should be omitted. Others have suggested that the quote is indicative of Berhalter's views and should be retained, with additional sources added to provide context. Let's see what consensus is on this issue and if any middle ground can be reached. This "QfD" should help us gauge attitudes and find a mutually-agreeable middle ground.
*Keep It's sourced, it's verifiable, it's encyclopedic, and it captures the attitude of Berhalter and the rest of United States team going into the World Cup. Other users can feel free to add other quotes if you feel balance is needed. Alansohn 13:31, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My challenge, which you would have gotten had you actually read my response is that the quote is NOT enyclopedic.  Your claim that it accurately captures the attitude of th United States going into to the world cup is both your pov and you using original research to justify inclusion.  You are pushing YOUR pov about both Berhalter AND the US Soccer team, which is...AGAINST POLICY.  Additionally, like I said previously, joejones only edits about 1 page a month and its typically this page, so his opinion is pretty much null and void as he's likely YOUR sock puppet. 75.2.9.78 00:18, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Delete as nonenycylopedic and per reasons by IP user.  Once again, we don't include every quote that is ever said, similar quotes by Bruce Arena and other managers, players and officials are not included in theirs.  It is not an accurate representation of his overall life, which is what this enyclopedia is for, not for stirring up every small quote that's ever been said.  That's what wikiquote is for.  I also agree with the other user about pov and original research being used to justify inclusion. 157.91.44.1 17:28, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just to point out, Alansohn has now resorted to calling edits by myself and the other IP user vandalism because we choose to follow wikipedia guidelines about consensus and inclusion.  Looks like he and his sock puppet have run out of legitimate arguments and have chosen the name-calling route. 75.2.9.78 02:57, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Quote for deletion

message: This is a dispute about inclusion of a quote in this article regarding the 2006 World Cup. 04:20, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll take this opportunity to weigh in with my opinions.  1) I agree with Batman, the people posting are using a clear case of Original Research to justify inclusion.  2) my thoughts are that this quote does not accurately represent anything.  What question was asked to elicit this response from Berhalter, what was said immediatley before and after?  It matters a great deal if he said "nobody is calling it the group of death because of Ghana.  That being said we're taking them as seriously as every other opponent."  That information is not contained in the article so we don't know.  The quote is being used to defame both Berhalter and the US Soccer team.  It is wholly unencyclopedic and so are all of the attempts by the two users to include it.  Like I've said before, we don't include random quotes in articles just because.  We don't include all the other quotes he's ever had about other teams that he's played against.  I'm a firm believer in keeping these articles encyclopedic only, not as a forum for pushing of pov or making a statement.  The article should contain his personal and professional status, information about that status, achievements and referencing material.  This quote falls into none of the categories.  I'm also a fan of "controversy sections" but there was no controvery here, and saying that there was because they ended up losing to Ghana is original research.  Remember...wikipedia users can't create the story, just write about it.  There is no story here, just wikipedia users drawing a single quote out and using it to make their own point about what they think it means.  I don't/won't support the inclusion of this quote (or any quote for that matter on the grounds that they're unencyclopedic) if quotes need to be added I believe somebody already mentioned that there is a sister project for the inclusion of quotes over at wikiquote. 157.91.44.1 15:54, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

text: 157.91.44.1, since you could be one of hundreds of people who can edit from that IP, what really matters is if Batman2005 edits from that address. Thank you for comment anyways. - Ektar 00:45, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah yes, I see your point now.  I don't know for sure to be quite honest, I suppose it is possible, though doubtful i've been looking through the contributions coming from this IP and most of the soccer related ones i've seen have been ones i've made, not too sure about whether or not this Batman person edits here or what. 157.91.44.1 00:55, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Request for Comment: Gregg Berhalter

message: (diff showing an example of the disputed quote) First up, no vandalism has occurred, this is a content dispute only. Comments made in an argumentative tone and accusations of sockpuppetry do not help to resolve it. I don't think the quote would be such an issue if the rest of the article was fuller, but when Berhalter's international career is summed up in three lines it comes across as undue weight. That an athlete shows confidence in the run up to a major tournament is not surprising, the key is the context in which such a quote is used. As the article stands now, the reader is not given any information about Berhalter's role at the 2006 World Cup other than stating that he was an addition to the squad. Appending the quote to this gives the impression that it was one of the defining moments of his career. As Berhalter was a substitute in all three games, and did not take to the field at any point in the tournament, this is clearly not the case. Perhaps it could be referenced in a sentence such as "Berhalter expressed confidence in the ability of the USA team in run up to the tournament,Czechs and balances: US foe able, aching, The Boston Globe, June 12, 2006 but was an unused substitute in all three group games. The USA was eliminated after finishing bottom of Group D with one draw and two defeats." though this involves a certain amount of word juggling to get the quote to fit. Oldelpaso 11:25, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: 157.91.44.1, since you could be one of hundreds of people who can edit from that IP, what really matters is if Batman2005 edits from that address. Thank you for comment anyways. - Ektar 00:45, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah yes, I see your point now.  I don't know for sure to be quite honest, I suppose it is possible, though doubtful i've been looking through the contributions coming from this IP and most of the soccer related ones i've seen have been ones i've made, not too sure about whether or not this Batman person edits here or what. 157.91.44.1 00:55, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments

message: Hello everybody!  I might be here representing the mediation cabal, but I don't think it exists, so how is that possible?  There has been a request for mediation concerning the comments made by Berhalter about the Ghana football team.  Judging by the discussion above, the issue seems to have worked itself out.  I must admit, even though I'm not supposed to take sides, the quote seems superfluous in such a small article.  If there was a more extensive analysis of his personal life or personality, there may be a place for the quote.  However, in view of the comparitive insignificance of the quote pertaining to this particular article, I am rather pleased with the decision to reject it.  Perhaps a seperate article Attitudes of US football team at the World Cup would certainly allow for the quote, but here it's a bit much.  Just my two cents.  If there are any questions or if further mediation is required, refer to the appropriate page on the Mediation Cabal page.  Otherwise, I'll close this case in a few days.  Antimatter---talk--- 01:59, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: mediator