Talk:Kurdish women

message: Shouldn't the title be in plural form Kurdish Women? Heja Helweda 03:53, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, in plural form is more correct.
Diyako Talk + 12:21, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll fix it.
Diyako Talk + 12:29, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Even though a late reply, I will concur with above... Why is this a seperate article, really? Shouldn't it be merged with Kurds (or Kurds in X articles) and/or Kurdish culture etc? Baristarim 05:16, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I also agree, this article should be merged with "Kurdish people". Timotheos 21:00, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Did Minorsky really meat Adíle Xan or is this just a mix-up with Major Ely Banister Soane? I dont know if Minorsky did or didn't but I am sure Soane did so I just want to make sure it's not just a mix-up.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.208.209.254 (talk) 20:17, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is not a mix-up. Minorsky did meet Lady Adela (and he reported it in his article), and he also wrote about the earlier meetings between her and major Soane. Heja Helweda 04:03, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minorsky and Adíle Xan? 

message: The tone of article is like that the ethnic Kurds are very different in respecting the rights of women in comparison with other ethnicities of the middle east . With full respect , I don't think it is right to show a picture without showing the dark parts . As an example ,in Iran and Iraq, Female circumcision is more prevalent in ethnic Kurds than the other ethnicities . Why the article only talks about certain [positive] points without negative aspects ?thank you --Alborz Fallah (talk) 08:32, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Well the article is pretty well sourced so you're free to contribute to it and explain the other side. I guess the original contributor wanted to get a positive point across so you're free to add a PoV tag the article ~ Zirguezi 22:16, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Is it an advertisement article ?

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thread_title: File:Police Graduation KRG 03.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: Gıybet eden, sû-i zanda bulunan, kusurhttp://www.mynet.com/haber/yasam/asker-sevgilisini-oldurup-intihar-etti-1171676-1 arayan ve kınayan ya karşı tarafla helâlleşmeli ya da dünyada iken başına gelecekleri beklemelidir.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.240.192.129 (talk) 16:22, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  blaming mumin women 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20041103034103/http://www.utoronto.ca:80/wwdl/publications/english/mojab_introduction.pdf to http://www.utoronto.ca/wwdl/publications/english/mojab_introduction.pdf
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This article contains a lot of claim without any sources. Starting to review the article.Ferakp (talk) 05:43, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Baseless information 

message: The information on Du'a Khalil Aswad, an Yazidi girl was deleted because Ferakp claims Yazidis are not Kurds. So why does the Yazidi article say that Yazidis are Kurds. Please explain. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.106.216.139 (talk • contribs) 23:55, April 1, 2015 (UTC)
::Please explain this.
:::  She is Iraqi and she is Yazidi. Yazidis are not Kurds. According to the UN, Yazidis are own ethno-religious group. So, we can't call her Kurd, because she is not. That's what also source says. Ferakp (talk) 10:41, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  Add her again. She counts. ThePlatypusofDoom (talk) 13:16, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yazidi and Kurds 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Even urban Kurdish women are generally not permitted to make their own decisions in marriage and divorce.(Hassanpour 2001) Hassanpour, Amir. The (Re)production of Kurdish Patriarchy in the Kurdish Language. 2001. Accessed 5 April 2007. Available from: fcis.oise.utoronto.ca/~mojabw...r_11.pdf http://fcis.oise.utoronto.ca/~mojabweb/publications/0001E478-80000012/0695C74C-001257DC.-1/hassanpour_11.pdf http://che.tribe.net/thread/0ae203bb-6aae-4297-a993-83993cf48c7d 
The second source is thread in the website, it's not a reliable source. It is referencing to the first source. But the first source doesn't mention what you have written here. It doesn't confirm your statement. No talk page was mentioned, so I read all pages related to urban Kurdish women but didn't find anything which could confirm your statement.Ferakp (talk) 15:45, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kurdish women in Urban area 

message: The user from 92.106.216.139 address is continuously trying to blackwash this article. All user's edits are negative. However, the main problem with this user is that majority of edits he/she makes are against WP:POV and clearly disruptive editing. This is last time, I will reverse edits, and explain changes even though I have explained the user 4 times before. Next time, I would have to report the user.
diff:  
Sources contains a lot of cities, which don't belong to the Iraqi Kurdistan and Northern Iraq. Also, as source says, it is among Sorani speaking Kurds, not all Kurds. Also, it's among Iraqi Arabs, not all Arabs. This edit is clearly against WP:POV and WP:FAKE. Also, because this is 4th time I tell you, you are clearly engaging in disruptive editing. 
About this statement: A 2014 survey from UNICEF found a 58.5% prevalence of FGM in Iraqi Kurdistan..* This statement is edited now.
diff:  
Let me repeat again, even I have told you above. This edit is clearly against WP:POV. You need to mention, according to who and when. I see that it is very old, almost ~21 years but you show it as a recent study. I saw you Mojab source, it is talking about 1931 and I see you have added it as a recent "Status of women". You haven't mentioned the year, which Kurds (Iraqi, Turkish, Iran, Syria??) and also where exactly. You can't generalize a statement from the early 19th century, which is probably related to the Iraqi Kurds to all Kurds.*
::Mojab talks about Kurdish women in the 20th century generally, not just of early 19th century as you claim, and some of his sources are from the 1990s. I have also added a second source.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.106.216.139 (talk) 20:00, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: The quote is correct, it is on page 5. "More widely reported are both parties’ disregard of
women’s issues and their attempts to suppress women’s
organizations.24 Between 2000 and 2002 both parties
outlawed honor killings in their separate administrative
bases, but have generally not enforced the laws. Still,
some women have held political positions and served as"  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.106.216.139 (talk) 20:05, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Houzan Mahmoud is a specialist on Kurdish womens rights, the article was published as an article in a reputed publication. So there is nothing wrong with the source. But I have moved it to a footnote.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.106.216.139 (talk) 20:24, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

text: I have added the page numbers. The text was previously plain source misrepresentation, I have only added the full context and neutralized it.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.106.216.139 (talk) 19:46, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intend to blackwash the article 

message: It seems that almost whole article is dedicated to FGM, honour killings and so forth. Of course these informations should be mentioned in the article but isn't it weird to dedicate the whole article to it? It can be summarized and/or creating a new article such as "Crimes against Kurdish women" per WP:BLOATED policy could help to solve the problem. In addition, I have checked the ip's (92.106.xx) contributions and noticed that the editor clearly dismissed particular informations and cherry picked some of them. Plus, when I checked the page's history, i have noticed multiple ips belong the same editor involved in disruptive editing. Some of them:
*
*
*
As you see, the contributions of the editor using these ips are not neutral: Mass deletions of sourced contents, offensive edit summaries (many of them censored by admins) and so on... Thus, I cannot "assume good faith" in this case. It would be nice if an admin pay attention to this article.
PS: Despite the fact that user Ferakp does not behave neutral utterly, it is not an excuse for/ not cover the ip's ulterior motive.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.221.207.35 (talk) 13:51, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  A lot of his edits are not neutral. Too much cherry pickings and falsified statements. Added neutrality tags. Ferakp (talk) 22:16, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Single purposed editor and problems regarding the article 

message: It looks like you have started to continue your edits with a new IP address. 
Womens' rights activists have said that after the elections in 1992, only five of the 105 elected members of parliament were women, and that women’s initiatives were even actively opposed by Kurdish male politicians.[14] Honor killings and other forms of violence against women have increased since the creation of Iraqi Kurdistan, and "both the KDP and PUK claimed that women’s oppression, including ‘honor killings’, are part of Kurdish ‘tribal and Islamic culture’".[15] New laws against honor killing and polygamy were introduced in Iraqi Kurdistan, however it was noted by Amnesty International that the prosecution of honor killings remains low, and the implementation of the anti-polygamy resolution (in the PUK-controlled areas) has not been consistent.[16] On the other hand, women rights activists also had some successes in Iraqi Kurdistan, and it was claimed that "the rise of conservative nationalist forces and the women’s movement are two sides of the same coin of Kurdish nationalism."[17]
Here is what the sources says:
Following the elections in 1992, only fi ve of the 105 elected members of parliament were women (Mojab 2004: 119). Th e political leadership of both parties tried to incorporate tribal leaders, leading to the emergence of ‘neo-tribalism’ in Iraqi Kurdistan after 1992 (McDowall 2000 : 385). In this context, women’s initiatives were frequently regarded suspiciously and were even actively opposed by conservative Kurdish male political actors (Mojab 2004; al-Ali 2007 : 207). 
Both the KDP and PUK claimed that women’s oppression, including ‘honor killings’, was part of Kurdish ‘tribal and Islamic culture’ (Mojab 2004: 122). 
New laws against honor killing and polygamy were introduced in Iraqi Kurdistan, however it was noted by Amnesty International that the prosecution of honor killings remains low, and the implementation of the anti-polygamy resolution (in the PUK-controlled areas) has not been consistent
Despite the hostility they faced from some quarters, Kurdish women’s rights activists campaigned to annul the provisions within the Iraqi penal code that allowed lenient punishment for the murder of women in the name of ‘honor’. Th ey were successful in achieving these changes in 2000 in the PUKcontrolled areas and 2002 in the KDP-controlled areas. Despite this achievement, the prosecution of honor crimes is reported to be low (Amnesty International 2009 ). During the 1990s, Kurdish women’s rights activists also lobbied for reforms to the Iraqi personal status code of 1959 in order to introduce greater equality in marriage and divorce. In the PUK-controlled region, Jalal Talabani signed Resolution 62 (2000), which made taking more than one wife punishable by up to three years in prison and a fi ne of up to 10,000 dinars. However, like the outlawing of so-called honor crimes, the implementation of Resolution 62 has not been consistent.
I see you are again continuing cherry picking and black washing of the article. When are you going to stop this, what is your problem? 90% of this article is related to Mojab's publications. You have gathered 6-7 sources and they all are referring to Mojab publications. You are showing the report from 1992 as it was happened yesterday. You should mention the year and according to who. Also, stop cherry picking. I am tired to edit your changes. This article is totally destroyed and it is nothing else than negative things. Do you understand that the majority of the Kurds live in Turkey and Syria, not in Iraq?
*Shahrzad Mojab is a Canadian professor and one of the highest authorities on Kurdish women. The sources in your extract seem to be from 2004, 2007, 2009. That is not all from 1992. The text about Iraq is clearly marked as about Iraq. Majority of Kurds live in Turkey and Iraq. --92.107.193.198 (talk) 22:15, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  Mojab is never accepted or agreed as an "expert" of Kurdish women's rights. I have read many articles about her, she is badly criticized. Sources are from 2004 but when you check what sources they use and go to check again them from the original Mojab source, you will realize that those things are from the early 90's. I am 100% sure you know that, you are just trying to show them as yesterday events. She stopped to write about the Kurdish women's right after her two publications were criticized by other human rights organizations. If you check her publications, you will realize that they are all absolutely negative and causing full of hatred. About your edits, at least 2 your statements aren't valid anymore. For example, not been consistent.. is not valid anymore. Check the newest source I added last time. I have checked your sources and realized that they are actually all either Mojab sources or referring to it, not even mentioning that you are clearly cherry picking and changing your IP address.Ferakp (talk) 22:22, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: And what are these sources that claim that Mojab is not a good source? Remember in wikipedia, we have to go by reliable sources. The paper I just used is from 2011, so quite recent. If the polygamy law is now consistently implmented, you can add this information, but it would still not make it invalid for the previous time period.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.107.193.198 (talk) 22:36, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Also see this article which is quite recent about women in Iraqi Kurdistan.  I'm not using this source in the article, but it shows the situation is even worse.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.107.193.198 (talk) 22:41, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cherry picking, again 

message: ::::Above Ferakp claims I was cherry picking, and on ANI I was "cherrypicking" because I made a change to this:
:::::The original source reads: More or less silent on women an non-princely classes, it makes references to the women of the ruling landowning class, and their exclusion from public life and the exercise of state power. According to this source, the Kurds, following the Islamic tradition, took four wives and, if the could afford it, four maids or slave girls (jariyya). […] Daughters and sisters were given or exchanded in marriage as a means of settling wars and blood feuds. When one side was defeated, the victor took over the women of the enemy as booty and as proof of the humiliating defeat of the adversary. Although state power was execised only by males, Bidlisi mentions three women who, after losing their husbands, aussumed the reins of power in order to transfer it to their sons upon their adulthood.
::::::Out of this, in the wikipedia article it only read: Sharaf ad-Din Bitlisi's 1597 Sharafnama mentions three Kurdish women assuming power in Kurdish principalities.
:::::If THIS was not cherry picking, then what is?? On "blackwashing", one can find enough "blackwashing" by looking at his contribs about Arabs, Iranians, Turks...)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.107.193.198 (talk) 23:04, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  on cherrypicking 

message: I changed "Kurdish regions" to Iraqi Kurdistan, because the first source talks about "Kurdistan", not Kurdish regions. With Kurdistan, it means Iraqi Kurdistan (only recognized "Kurdistan"). Feel free to change if you think I am wrong (and you can prove so). Ferakp (talk) 17:08, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  region/area 

message: Added Iranian government as in Amnesty reports there was clearly cited that the Iranian government has brought laws that encourage men to practice violence against their wives. Also, neighboring societies as the neighboring societies have significant affect (no country-> you are living under shadow of other societies).Ferakp (talk) 15:09, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edits 28.11.2016 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081210162729/http://www.uniraq.org/FileLib/misc/HR%20Report%20Nov%20Dec%202006%20EN.pdf to http://www.uniraq.org/FileLib/misc/HR%20Report%20Nov%20Dec%202006%20EN.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160616210850/http://www.kurdipedia.org/documents/87353/0001.pdf to http://www.kurdipedia.org/documents/87353/0001.pdf
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150226214203/http://tin.tv/site/show/cat2/fact-2012-uvda to http://tin.tv/site/show/cat2/fact-2012-uvda
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160101162717/http://sosyalistfeministkolektif.org/english/928-revolution-in-rojava-transformed-the-perception-of-women-in-the-society.html to http://www.sosyalistfeministkolektif.org/english/928-revolution-in-rojava-transformed-the-perception-of-women-in-the-society.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160809135306/http://isyandan.org/english/the-cezire-canton-an-arab-sheikh-and-a-woman-guerrilla-at-the-helm/ to http://isyandan.org/english/the-cezire-canton-an-arab-sheikh-and-a-woman-guerrilla-at-the-helm/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081005072329/http://globalpolitician.com/25202-iraq to http://globalpolitician.com/25202-iraq
*Added  tag to https://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/MDE13/088/2008/en/d140767b-5e45-
*Added  tag to https://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/MDE13/088/2008/en/d140767b-5e45-
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080509171108/http://www3.baylor.edu/~Charles_Kemp/kurdish_refugees.htm to http://www3.baylor.edu/~Charles_Kemp/kurdish_refugees.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160302215853/http://che.tribe.net/thread/0ae203bb-6aae-4297-a993-83993cf48c7d to http://che.tribe.net/thread/0ae203bb-6aae-4297-a993-83993cf48c7d
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160302215853/http://che.tribe.net/thread/0ae203bb-6aae-4297-a993-83993cf48c7d to http://che.tribe.net/thread/0ae203bb-6aae-4297-a993-83993cf48c7d
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140103151030/http://www.kwrw.org/index.asp?id=83 to http://www.kwrw.org/index.asp?id=83
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160302215853/http://che.tribe.net/thread/0ae203bb-6aae-4297-a993-83993cf48c7d to http://che.tribe.net/thread/0ae203bb-6aae-4297-a993-83993cf48c7d
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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018)