Talk:Hanukkah bush

message: This is an interesting subject, but I think it would serve better if condensed slighly and merged with Christmas tree.
Peter Isotalo 16:36, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [Untitled]

message: This article was recently moved by User:Jordain to Jewish Christmas Tree with the edit comment "Hanukkah bush moved to Jewish Christmas Tree: Name is insufficient, anti-Christian." 
The Wikipedia:Naming convention is to "give priority to what the majority of English speakers would most easily recognize."
"Hanukkah bush" gets 1030 Google hits and is a real phrase that is widely used.
"Jewish Christmas tree" gets only 90 Google hits and from context it is clear that this is not a customary way of referring to it.
I do not see what is either "insufficient" or "anti-Christian" about the name "Hanukkah bush," but in any case that is the real name. "Jewish Christmas tree" is a description. 
Discuss here and don't move the article, certainly not until it is off AfD, but also not before there is consensus on what the name of the article should be. Dpbsmith (talk) 22:47, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Article title

message: Please don't insert material suggesting that the practice is offensive to Christians unless you can supply a verifiable source citation to back this up, such as a quotation from a prominent clergyman. Note that Hanukkah bushes are not public displays. Dpbsmith (talk) 11:03, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Offensive to Christians? 

message: I find this page insulting.  It is not a common practice for Jews to have a Christmas Tree in their homes, and in this page there are no quoted sources to say anything to the contrary to grain of this article.
*I count six or seven sources... e.g. Rabbi Ron Isaacs, "There are certainly Jewish families that feel that they can have a tree in the house without subscribing to the Christian element of the holiday," Peter W. Williams, "Some Jews eager to approximate Gentile customs... and with tongue firmly in cheek—add a 'Hanukkah bush,' or Christmas-tree substitute, and even have visits from "Uncle Max, the Hanukkah man," a clear counterpart to a well-known Christmas figure." And I don't think Saks Fifth Avenue would have advertised decorations for a "Chanukah bush" if it were a rare or obscure practice. Dpbsmith (talk) 20:37, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: *I think the anon has a point.  There are no real sources given on the prevalence of the practice; some rabbi making an anecdotal remark has no particular authority on this.  And very many references to "Hannukah bushes" in popular culture are just more or less jokes, including the 1974 Saks ad (if there was a major market, one would think this would be targeted just a little more regularly).  I am seriously skeptical that this article may be implicity exxagerating the prevalence of Hanukkah bushes in the U.S.  What we desperately need a real source, like a relevant poll or sociological study of Americans Jews.--Pharos 22:31, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: There are many ridiculous pages in Wikipedia, and this certainly qualifies as one of them.--Gilabrand 11:15, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree; this is insane. I live in one of the major Jewish areas/cities of America and NO ONE I know has one of these things!! The closest I could find was when a well-meaning Xian bought a little blue tinsel tree for her boss & said she was going to decorate it for him for Chanukah as a gift.FlaviaR 10:29, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I don't agree. The North-African Jews, even religious ones, make the Chennah ceremony before wedding. and guess what, this practice is a 100% Muslim one, nothing in common with anything Jewish. And nobody tells these Yidden about the "dangers of loosing their identity and heritage". My little golden tree has real candles and glass ornaments including Magen David, kiddush cup, mezuzot, Menorah and even a rabbi. And there will be a big chanukiyah next to the window. And I do not feel less Jewish. Chag sameach and get a life.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by LiberalJew (talk • contribs) 18:57, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  You sound defensive. Very much so. And yet no one had said anything to you that you "defended against." Looks like it's obvious who needs to "get a life."FlaviaR (talk) 02:34, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bad Page 

message: One definition of euphemism is:
:The act or an example of substituting a mild, indirect, or vague term for one considered harsh, blunt, or offensive. "“Euphemisms such as ‘slumber room’ . . . abound in the funeral business” (Jessica Mitford).
Another is:
:the substitution of an agreeable or inoffensive expression for one that may offend or suggest something unpleasant; also : the expression so substituted
Euphemisms usually refer to taboo things like religion, excretion, and sex. 
I find it hard to view "hanukkah bush" as a "euphemism," because I think few Jews see anything harsh, blunt, offensive, unpleasant, or taboo. Dpbsmith (talk) 23:43, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Euphemism? 

message: Removed text:
"It is very common for Jewish children whose families do not have trees to envy Christian friends who do[citation needed]. Some families feel that it is important for children to understand and value the difference between Judaism and Christianity and refuse to have a "Christmas tree" in their home. On the other hand, it is not unusual for a Jewish family simply to have a Christmas tree and call it by that name[citation needed]. The "Hanukkah bush" falls somewhere between these extremes."
"A typical"
If someone can find citations that substantiate the "very common" and the "it is not unusual", please cite and put back into the article.
Thanks
--Igoldste 17:25, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citation Requests 

message: I'm confused by the Novi God reference.  Is this something that is just celebrated by Russian Jews as the text implies?  Also, the text implies that Russian immigrants of other religion have dropped this practice while the Russian Jews have continued it.  Can someone clarify?
Thanks --Igoldste 17:31, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Novi God 

message: Would someone post more specific information about the 1959 episode in which Gertrude Berg spoke about the Hanukkah Bush? I would like to find the original air date of this episode. The footage is needed for a documentary about the life of Gertrude Berg.
98.204.68.239 (talk) 19:08, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Gertrude Berg/ Ed Sullivan Episode? 

message: "A Hanukkah bush is not to be mistaken with an actual Christmas tree which Russian Jews frequently use when celebrating Novi God, the celebration of the New Year, and devoid of religious meaning. Russian Jews in America and Israel often use Christmas trees in celebration of Novi God complete with the Russian version of Santa Claus (Ded Moroz)[citation needed], yet the celebrations are not signs of assimilation as often thought, but a tradition reflecting the secular Russian holiday (with the actual Christian Orthodox Christmas celebrated by Russian Christians in the beginning of January)."
My removal of the paragraph about Novvy God was reverted.  Rather than re-revert it, I would like to see what the consensus is.
I believe that the paragraph about Novyy God should be removed for several reasons.
#This article is not about "Things that are not Christmas Trees".  Novyy God uses a New Year's Spruce (Novogodnyaya Yolka).
#Novyy God is celebrated by all Russians as a secular Russian holiday, and not solely by Russian Jews.
Thoughts? --Igoldste (talk) 06:07, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: In Israel and possibly even in the US, most of the Russian families who would carry on this tradition are in fact Jewish. The Novvy God is certainly something that can be confused with a Hanukkah bush, which is why it's here.--Prosfilaes (talk) 15:03, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Novyy God 

message: Hanukkah Bushes are not real.  This page should state that.  It's a joke.  I've never seen a Hanukkah Bush and so it's up to the Wikipedia to present some sources that show it's real.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.222.203.146 (talk) 07:47, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Did you look at the "notes" section? The article contains twelve references to various sources attesting to the existence of "Hanukkah bushes."Dpbsmith (talk) 02:35, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  I've heard of these Hanukkah Bushes but I've never seen one 

message: the smug certainty of this page, obviously written by non Jews, my god, this page is so wrong, handled so poorly, it is a loathsome thing this page 107.3.134.101 (talk) 06:06, 25 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  this is the most offensive page I have seen on wikipedia