Talk:The Salvation Army

message: I restored the section of Life issues which was refractored, without any previous debate, by a non-registered user. All are welcome to help improve the article but I would like to remember that important parts of the article can't be deleted or refractored without a previous debate. In what concerns to the Life issues section I think it makes sense to have a single article about their stances on abortion, euthanasia and the death penalty, because they are important questions for nowadays Christian denominations and that is the common standard use at Wikipedia. It also should be noticed that the non-registered user deleted, without any explanation, the stance on the death penalty.Mistico (talk) 19:40, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: That editor was correct in removing it, because it was a copyright violation, being copied verbatim from the very website it cited. Contributions to Wikipedia must be original, not copy-pastes from other websites. Elizium23 (talk) 20:31, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It wasn't a copyright violation because the source isn't protected by any of these rights. Do some research. What Wikipedia encourages is not to use primary sources but we can use them if we don't have better ones.Mistico (talk) 20:52, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: With all due respect, that is nonsense. There is a clear copyright notice on the cited website. Wikipedia is not allowed to use copyrighted material in this fashion. We are permitted to use primary sources by paraphrasing them and making short quotes properly attributed, not by copy-paste of entire paragraphs from them. Please do some research. Elizium23 (talk) 20:54, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Life issues

message: Their salute is 1 finger pointing toward heaven and 3 fingers pointing back at themselves.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.241.122.215 (talk) 04:52, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Their salute is one finger pointed toward Heaven with the palm facing outward.  The other fingers don't point at themselves or anyone else.  Perhaps you're confusing it with a different one or two-fingered salute. --WPaulB (talk) 20:51, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Salute 

message: I had made a change to the body of the segment headed "LGBT Issues"
The original text implied that the Bible condemns homosexuals in their life on Earth to be put to death. I have yet to see a verse suggesting this.
174.93.114.129 (talk) 01:06, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I had to remove what you added. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with your belief, but it is not in the citation and this is not a message board so we have to go by what happened and what the citation says. --Sonic2030 (talk) 15:37, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  RE: the Biblical view of homosexuality. 

message: It may make more sense to create a new article about Homosexuality and The Salvation Army to focus on these issues. Viriditas (talk) 00:06, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe. How about now we leave the small parts that are in it and see if this gets bigger? If it starts to take up much more and gets more mainstream then may need to leave a small blurb here and then build off later? I've seen more and more of this on the news until the school shooting in the states seems to have taken it off now though. --HelferLad (talk) 02:56, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Homosexuality and The Salvation Army 

message: I think the enormous list of recipients of the Order of Distinguished Auxiliary Service should be removed. It just doesn't look right here. Maybe it needs it's own article?Theroadislong (talk) 19:04, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually it could be drastically reduced to just those  5 or 6 recipients who have their own articles.Theroadislong (talk) 19:15, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Let's reduce it to a list of "notable recipients". If the Order itself is notable, then a new article can be a possibility. Elizium23 (talk) 18:59, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I feel as though the honors section should be longer. Would it make sense to add why The Salvation Army has been awarded these honors?Gracewhidden (talk) 14:03, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Honours section 

message: The infprmation in the Aust section has been edited down to the referances. What is there now is supported and factual. Resaltador (talk) 19:59, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually it is not. You have reverted my changes in which I removed information definitely not supported by any source and copyedited for capitalization and other errors. Please self-revert, or I shall proceed to WP:EWN to report you for 3RR violation. Elizium23 (talk) 20:01, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I support Elizium's edit to this version:  Federales (talk) 20:34, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  ...except that version was sourced only to a dead link.  So I've fixed the link and put back the parts you removed that were properly sourced, adding extra reliable sources including the SA themselves.  Which is what should have been done in the first place, instead of edit-warring. Black Kite (talk) 00:17, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aust Section 

message: :The Salvation Army is a Christian denomination and international charitable organisation organised in a quasi-military structure.
Does that mean it's a church?  Shouldn't it say clearly somewhere to clarify that?  GreaseballNYC (talk) 15:37, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  First line? 

message: The website "Truth Wins Out" is not a reliable secondary source and cannot be used to back up assertions in this article. Please do not add it as a source. Elizium23 (talk) 17:50, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Sources are not required to be secondary, although it is usually preferred. In any case, I added a better source. - MrX 18:21, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reliable secondary sources 

message: Should it be time to add a section regarding the Ray & Joan Kroc Corps Community Centers?  These Centers are notable since they are fitness/rec/community/performing arts Centers as well as The Salvation Army traditional churches.  Joan Kroc gave The Salvation Army the largest philanthropic gift to a charity in US history to build these: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/4006823/ns/us_news/#.UxLBuvldUXs.
The latest Kroc Center, the 27th, will open in Norfolk, VA on April 29th, 2014, and will be a 92,000 square foot facility.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sauve.sean (talk • contribs) 05:34, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Section For Ray & Joan Kroc Corps Community Centers?? 

message: :User:Tsasouth (who appears to be the IP user 50.207.11.29) has repeatedly reverted multiple user's edits which removed website links from the infobox. I don't know why the user is so upset about a trivial matter, because they haven't provided any reason for opposing the edits. Can someone change the page protection? -- HazhkTalk 16:22, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: User:Hazhk This is not an attempt at editwarring nor sockpuppetry as you've stated. I am an employee of The Salvation Army (as stated in my message to you), making updates and changes on its behalf. I've also stated, "if you have any questions or concerns please feel free to contact me via the email provided". --:User:Tsasouth   — Preceding undated comment added 17:38, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  Whether or not it is an "attempt" at edit-warring, repeatedly making the same edit after it is repeatedly reverted is edit-warring. Persistently repeating the same edits in the hope that others will eventually give up and let you have your way is not a constructive way of settling disagreements: if you believe you have good reasons for your edit, please explain them here. You say that you have invited other editors to contact you "via the email provided", but I have no idea where or when you said that: certainly not in any edit made with the account Tsasouth, and I have no idea what email address you are referring to. In any case, it is unhelpful to expect editors to email every other editor they wish to communicate with, and that is what Wikipedia has talk pages for. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 17:48, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Editwarring and sockpuppetry 

message: In the interest of full disclosure, the email I received is here:
8:33 AM
Dear Winkelvi,
I am the <position redacted for privacy> for The Salvation Army.  We appreciate your support and effort in keeping our wiki page updated and free of cyber vandals.  However the changes made were by Official Salvation Army personnel.  We would like for this information to remain.
If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to contact me directly at <email address redacted@for privacy>
Thank you!
<name redacted for privacy>
<position redacted for privacy>
The Salvation Army
--------
As I stated at the SPI for the User:Tsasouth account, I think they are just totally unfamiliar with Wikipedia, how it works, and the fact that the article on The Salvation Army is owned by Wikipedia and they don't have special rights or privileges in regard to it.  Hopefully, discussion with them will take place at the Tsasouth talk page during the edit warring block so we can discuss and help them better understand policies and guidelines. -- WV ● ✉ ✓  18:13, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Email received from Tsasouth

message: Although this article concerns a worldwide organisation, it was founded in Britain in 1865 by a British Methodist preacher, and is still headquartered in the UK (it waited another 15 years before opening up in the US). Although not a major issue, I do think this should be in British English, rather than the current American variant. – SchroCat (talk) 10:06, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: *That's something of a straw man: if we use the MoS to justify inactivity little will ever get done. If the George Washington article was written in British English it would not bar any reader from total comprehension, and yet I'll lay good money that there would be a maelstrom of complaint from US readers over the selection and a change would come quickly enough. Ditto wth a company: If Google or Microsoft had first been written in Br Eng, I can guarantee that there wuld be a switch to AmEng, despite there being no reason that would "add to our readers' understanding of the topic", or the international nature of the two companies. – SchroCat (talk) 08:37, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I simply asked a question, good sir, perhaps you would do well with a generous reading of AGF guidelines.  It is a valid question, if you are proposing a dramatic re-write of the article, the onus is on you to demonstrate how it would improve the text.--Adam in MO Talk 16:42, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I am assuming GF while answering (rather obviously). To somehow categorise the change as "dramatic" is to over-egg the pudding somewhat: a mild copy edit of less than five minutes would have this in the correct form of English - nothing "dramatic" there at all. Again, it's not anything to do with "improving the text": the language here is inappropriate for a Brtish institution, so a minor change will not downgrade this either. - SchroCat – Hapus Dydd Gŵyl Dewi (talk) 17:08, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

text: *You can't see that an organisation 'born' in Britain that has been headquartered there for an unbroken 151 years should be in British English? I'm struggling not to see that as culturally insensitive. RETAIN is all well and good if there isn't a connection (a colour, or a mineral), but if a book or a film was 'born' in one country we have strong MoS guidance to use the 'home' language, not another variant, or the language that American writers want. – SchroCat (talk) 08:37, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: *Nominally I don't have a problem with the change from American English. However, the organization being born there is not really sufficient for MOS:TIES, IMO. The strongest case that can be made for changing it is that, in addition to current headquarters, is that it used to at one point be called East London Christian Mission and that British Immigrants were responsible for spreading it in other places of the world (such as Canada). But again, I am still not wholly convinced that it meets MOS:TIES. You have to admit, that compared to something like the Queen, which is quintessentially British, the Sally Ann is no longer like that, having a world-wide footprint. My country's first Prime Minister is British-born, but that doesn't mean we use British spelling on that article. As a note, because I've read the comments below/above too, if you use accusative statements with people it doesn't go over so well (for example, your previous reply could be read as implying I am culturally insensitive). My comment was made to encourage you to make a better case for your proposal as the RfC'er for this topic, and not an attempt to try appropriate pieces of history to the American cause (which I am not part of). Jargon777  Leave a message 17:45, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: *I find it an underwhelming argument to say there is no sufficient connection. If, as I say above, Microsoft was written in BrEng, there would be a wave of protests, despite the very international nature of the company. This is no different: an organisation that was 'born' in Britain, founded by a Briton, has an unbroken 150+ history of being headquartered in Britain, an organisation that puts on its international homepage "Good afternoon, welcome to the website of The Salvation Army's International Headquarters in London, UK", is an intrinsically British organisation. As per similar organisations – much like the example of OXFAM below – this should be in British English. Unlike your first prime minister, who based himself solely in Canada for most of his life and acted for that country, the Salvation Army has never been a solely American institution, and the choice of American English for the article is culturally insensitive, regardless. – – SchroCat (talk) 18:07, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: *I think you're missing the point of what I am saying. Jargon777  Leave a message 19:00, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

text: *Could you explain "consistency" in your answer"? Good thing OXFAM's article is in Oxford English. Good thing that the front page of the Sally Army's international website states "Good afternoon, welcome to the website of The Salvation Army's International Headquarters in London, UK". No strong national ties there, then! - SchroCat – Hapus Dydd Gŵyl Dewi (talk) 17:08, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: *Could I explain my answer? No, I don't think I will. I have tried, in vain to collaborate to with you. I don't feel that this article meet MOS:TIES. There isn't any thing else I have to add unless you have some better reasoning other than your opinions.--Adam in MO Talk 16:21, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: *If you are unable to explain "consistency", given the huge inconsistencies in your answer, given the inconsistencies in the article (as it is largely already in British, not American, date format), then I guess you have no real answer to as why this rather British organisation does not, as with Oxfam, use British English. One more thing: you have not, by any normal measure "tried, in vain to collaborate" at all. You have asked a question, given an answer inconsistent with the facts, and not gone off: not collaboration at all. - – SchroCat (talk) 16:43, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: *Thanks for your opinions Schro, I will file them in the appropriate bin. Cheers mate. --Adam in MO Talk 21:58, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: *Not sure what the point of your reply is, but never mind. – – SchroCat (talk) 22:00, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

text: *Hi Adam in MO, I am inviting you to reconsider your statement in light of what I have written below. Jargon777  Leave a message 19:00, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: *Thank you for the invitation. I have said all will say on the topic. My opinion, regardless of the content, will not sway consensus either way. --Adam in MO Talk 21:58, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

text: Jargon777  Leave a message 19:00, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

text: *I didn't even notice the British spelling on that page when I looked... I must be reading too much American English. This eliminates any need to have a discussion on MOS:TIES. Jargon777  Leave a message 20:36, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: RfC: Should the language of this British organisation be in British English

message: Even if you have checked that the Salvation Army is specifically Protestant why would you need this detail in the lead? Britmax (talk) 21:32, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: The Salvation Army is primarily a religious organization and a charitable organization. Knowing that it is a Protestant Church is very important for understanding what we are talking about. --RaphaelQS (talk) 11:15, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: How do you know that it is protestant, and if it is why does that mean that this belongs in the lead rather than the body of the article? Britmax (talk) 11:24, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: The article details plainly how the SA traces its Methodist roots and Protestant doctrine. I wasn't aware there is a debate about that. The second lede paragraph covers this adequately. Isn't that enough that mention wouldn't be needed in the lede sentence? Elizium23 (talk) 16:38, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that the lead sentence should describe the subject of the article. The fact that this is a Protestant Church is equally important for describing the Salvation Army as saying that it is a charitable organization. --RaphaelQS (talk) 17:34, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protestant 

message: ... takes out reference to the Salvation Army using the bible and the fact that the organisation welcomes everyone regardless of bias. I regard this as as his attempt to start an edit war because for the article to be factually accurate it needs to advise readers that the Army doctrine is based on the bible. Being an administrator of wikipedia doesnt give you the right to behave like a Jihadist. Adrian816 (talk) 00:04, 2 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with the removal. Not only is it a violation of the style guidelines, but I agree that some of the passages are not written from a neutral point of view and do not accurately reflect the article. I single out "an evangelical part of the universal Christian church", "Its ministry is motivated by the love of God", and "Its mission is to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ and to meet human needs in His name without discrimination" as passages that do not appear to tie to the full text of the article. —C.Fred (talk) 00:08, 2 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: In that case a rewrite is better than deleting the offending text Adrian816 (talk) 00:19, 2 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: In other words, the intro should say things like "The Army's doctrine is typical of evangelical Protestant churches" and "The Army's purposes are 'the advancement of the Christian religion ... of education, the relief of poverty, and other charitable objects beneficial to society or the community of mankind as a whole'"? —C.Fred (talk) 00:21, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

text: …Because that is already in the intro! —C.Fred (talk) 00:38, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

text: C.Fred has sufficiently explained the rationale for the removal, indicating why it is both redundant and inappropriate. I have no desire to provide further comment on this matter due to the violation of the no personal attacks policy in your statement. --Kinu t/c 02:13, 2 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  The recent deletion of my lead paragraph by user kinu on grounds of bias 

message: In the summary box, top right where there’s the logo I want to add “sacred text: bible”. what wikimarkup code do I need to use for that special section of the page? A person from a different religion may not know this fact.
thanks
Adrian816 (talk) 23:16, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: If this is not already the case, do we want to risk every religion putting its sacred text into the box as well? Britmax (talk) 23:18, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  In the summary box, top right where there’s the logo I want to add “sacred text: bible” 

message: is the infobox metadata tag of sacred_text not recognised? My edit doesnt seem to have been processed for "sacred_text = Bible" in the infobox metadata section at the top of the source code for the page
Adrian816 (talk) 23:32, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: , the simple answer is "no".  Infoboxes are a type of template and templates only recognize specified parameters.  The parameters for this type of infobox are specified at :template:Infobox Christian denomination and "|sacred_text" is not among them.  Hope this helps. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 01:41, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I've just found this thread. I left a more detailed reply at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Infoboxes#Salvation Army page, where  left a very similar question. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 13:20, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  The info box code built in to Wikipedia doesn’t recognise my edit of sacred_text — Bible 

message: ..... so will an administrator please verify citation of source and remove "warning unsourced content" banner.
thanks
Adrian816 (talk) 14:35, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: , I am afraid that the "Worship Services" section does not currently contain any cited source. Note that a source must be a referenced to a published reliable source. "Eyewitness" accounts cannot be cited unless they have been published elsewhere in a reliable publication. The address of an institution that might answer inquiries is not a published source. Please add an actual citation to a reliable source that supports the content before removing the warning tag. DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 18:38, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Worship Services section edited to cite source 

message: Here's some text I added to the article "Work with people at risk of exploitation continues to this day, with a specialist team." followed by a link to the official website. What I want to do is have the words "specialist team" as a link to the website (html code allows links in text where the link is underlined). Is that accepted style, or is the present layout more appropriate? Please advise what help pages to look at.
Thanks
Adrian816 (talk) 15:03, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: @Adrian816: The page you want to read is WP:External links, where it's specifically stated that external links (e.g., links to the official website) should not be included within the text of the article. —C.Fred (talk) 15:05, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  I added a link to an external website, but the link insertion tool didn't give the result I expected 

message: The Salvation Army has a verified twitter account @salvationarmyuk, how do I cite it in a reference?
 cite web | url=@salvationarmyuk | website=www.twitter.com or is there a "cite twitter" ?
Adrian816 (talk) 22:44, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: There is Template:Cite tweet, but as the documentation says, "tweets are largely not acceptable as sources." If it's more than some uncontroversial detail such as the name of the General, we should use secondary sources instead. Huon (talk) 22:47, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  How to cite an oficial Twitter feed please? 

message: Add new website for Inclusion and LGBT policy, something to do on my PC, editing Wikipedia isn’t iPad friendly 
https://www.salvationarmy.org.uk/inclusion
Adrian816 (talk) 20:23, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inclusion LGBT 

message: is this text for the website:
Official website www.salvationarmyusa.org/usn
but that relates to the official website for the North America country only, not the worldwide Salvation Army organisation. The worldwide
Salvation Army website is https://www.salvationarmy.org
Please advise how to get the official website on the page template changed from the country of USA to the Global website
Thanks
Adrian816 (talk) 02:13, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Rotideypoc41352 (talk) 04:55, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Looking at the infobox in the top right hand corner.... 

message: In the section Structure, organisation and expenditures is a paragraph starting "The most recent statistics for membership". I'm wondering if Wikipedia supports display of statistical data as rows and columns of numbers in a spreadsheet or tablular format? I'm wondering if that's a better way of displaying the data than paragraphs of text. What help pages would I need to read please for creating numerical tables (rows and columns of data with row and column heading text).
Thanks
Adrian816 (talk) 19:30, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: These should be useful help:table & Help:Basic table markup. However, note Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Tables#Inappropriate use under prose says "Prose is preferred in articles as prose allows the presentation of detail and clarification of context, in a way that a table may not. Prose flows, like one person speaking to another, and is best suited to articles, because their purpose is to explain."  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alduin2000 (talk • contribs) 21:22, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Change the way membership statistics are displayed 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 
The result of the move request was: Do not move - Keep "The Salvation Army" as titled per majority consensus. Nicholemacgregor (talk) 20:09, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The Salvation Army →  – Per WP:THE. Chicbyaccident (talk) 16:47, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

text: *Per The Beatles, it is the common name of the organization as well as what they call themselves (see the registered logo at the front of the article). Running text use in these cases is used after the title and first mention on the page. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:18, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: *It's irrelevant what they call themselves. What's relevant is how the name is used in reliable sources. The Beatles is a completely different case. Nobody would just write Beatles. They would write Salvation Army. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:20, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: *The term "official name" in WP:THE, the specific guideline cited in this proposal, definitely does not mean "however the authors of secondary sources feel like referring to the topic of the article".  Otherwise enough racists doing that thing where they pointedly ignore the fact that Muhammad Ali changed his name would be cause to rename the article "Cassius Clay."  We also should not refer to Rohingya Muslims with some name that implies they aren't legitimately people of Myanmar just because the government of Myanmar wants them referred to that way.  If "The" appears in the organization's own logo it's not a "noise word" in the context in which common usage is mentioned in the introduction of the guideline. --▸₷truthious Ⓑandersnatch◂ 11:05, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: *Read WP:OFFICIAL and WP:COMMONNAME as well. Our naming policy is not dictated by the organisation in question, but by common usage in reliable sources. No reliable source these days refers to Muhammad Ali as Cassius Clay, except when referring to the time when he was Cassius Clay, so that's a spurious argument if ever I saw one. That's about WP:COMMONNAME, not WP:THE in any case. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:40, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: *I think you should read the things you're linking to yourself.  Even that essay states "Official names are generally represented in primary sources, such as official websites, album covers, annual reports, press releases by involved parties, and so on..." and "official name" is repeatedly specified in WP:THE.  By all means say that you want to reject this religious organization's official name for itself and argue in favor of truncating it—as such a rejection is an available option—but please don't call my arguments spurious when you're clearly cognizant enough of what I'm saying to qualify your statement about Muhammad Ali with "these days" and pointedly ignore my contemporary example involving a religious group.  You are tossing around links to policies and essays that explicitly refer to the use of a topic's official name for the title of some articles at the same time you're trying to act as though official names are irrelevant. Flagrantly ignoring the parts of policies you don't like is not the same thing as making an argument supporting your position.  --▸₷truthious Ⓑandersnatch◂ 16:04, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 17 May 2018 

message: Note that this RM was closed as no move by an editor who had participated in the debate (although they failed to sign their contribution) and opposed the move. They stated it was "per majority consensus". It was seven oppose to five support. Of the opposers, one has made no other contribution except to this debate and one is an IP. At least three of the opposers seemed to misunderstand Wikipedia titling practices as they claimed we wouldn't state "I worked for Salvation Army" (or whatever). No, we wouldn't, but if we followed this logic we would put a definite article in hundreds of thousands of our article titles that do not currently have them. Maybe this should have been closed as a no consensus. But it certainly should not have been closed by an interested party as a consensus. Just to point out to anyone who uses this discussion as any form of precedent. It's not. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:06, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Then you ask an uninvolved admin to do it. You do not do it yourself. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:37, 13 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Glancing through WP:RMCI it does seem that it would have been more orthodox for an uninvolved editor to do the closure, and I personally would have expected a "no consensus" result from the above comments. --▸₷truthious Ⓑandersnatch◂ 15:34, 13 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Closure of above RM

message: I am doing some section sorting. My rationale is that we should really first describe what the Salvation Army (SA) is today. Then we can describe its history. Then the "Organizational structure". Then the "Symbols" and stuff. For somebody who wants to know what it is, you should first describe its clergy and facilities and stuff like that. That is what the SA is today. It is a modern Protestant church with an emphasis on charity work. It has modern worship services. It has its thrift shops. It provides a service to the community with homeless shelters and Adult Rehabilitation Centers and such. That is what the article should lead with.--Sa57arc (talk) 21:30, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section sorting 

message: With regards to colour-coded epaulettes, I suggest mentioning that officers have maroon epaulettes and soldiers have blue epaulettes. When I first joined I wondered what the colour difference meant, and no-one actually explained it to me ... it took me a while to figure it out! However, I don't know if these epaulette colours are used consistently across all territories; I know that there are differences in uniform in different parts of the world. Can anyone please comment? tim.wilson.online (talk) 01:04, 25 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Epaulettes 

message: Central Nova News ( https://centralnovanews.com/stories/613274980-along-with-coins-this-christmas-salvation-army-wants-white-donors-to-offer-a-sincere-apology-for-their-racismand ) and Jim Hoft of the Gateway Pundit reported on 24th Nov 2021... Salvation Army Wants White Donors to Offer “Sincere Apology” for Their Racism ( https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/11/salvation-army-wants-white-donors-offer-sincere-apology-racism/ ) Can anyone throw light on the SA's stand on this policy.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.70.12.8 (talk) 13:40, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Black Lives Matter - BLM 

message: Paul Simmons’ “Hazy Shade of Winter”, also covered by the bangles includes : 
“Time, time, time See what's become of me
While I looked around for my possibilities
I was so hard to please
But look around Leaves are brown
And the sky is a hazy shade of winter
Hear the Salvation Army band
Down by the riverside's
Bound to be a better ride
Than what you've got planned
Carry your cup in your hand
And look around you
Leaves are brown, now
And the sky is a hazy shade of winter”
Based on some of the entries regarding movies this is relevant. I mean I haven’t heard rather version since the 90s but combined they made millions of dollars right? 2604:2D80:A282:1300:F097:9303:D47F:9035 (talk) 22:38, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  In music section 

message: There may potentially be bias in this article.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by EloquentMosquito (talk • contribs) 09:56, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Please tell us where so something can be done about it, if needed. Britmax (talk) 10:16, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Defaced Wikipedia page 

message: I feel that the "in movies" and "in music" sections  could be combined into an "in popular culture" section, at least because I can't find anywhere to put the fact that the second-generation Worms games features a weapon called "Salvation Army", which appears as a bellringer hitting a tambourine, marching forwards before exploding. 2A00:23C6:9982:EE01:D826:16EA:E5F:1D88 (talk) 17:50, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  In media section 

message: My name isPhilip Walter's I would like permission to to enter your property I am inquiring because I am looking to settle in the. Area and have extensive property maintenance experience and would  e willing to provide said service in exchange for living on your property 172.58.137.29 (talk) 14:20, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Land owned in backus mn.by the salvation army of ill. 

message: The reference for this is tagged as needing to be replaced with a better one, except it never will be because this "controversy" is almost exclusively a manufactured one. Speaking about a "broader public controversy" in Wikipedia's voice is unacceptable as it plays into the narrative promoted by the American right that this is something that was a problem in the first place. It's fine to mention criticisms from the right and attribute them to sources like Fox, but not to use language that uncritically accepts the framing of the "controversy". I believe any reference to a "broader" controversy should be omitted. WP Ludicer (talk) 11:55, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fox News and CRT "controversy" in "Racism guide" section