Talk:Giuoco Piano

message: While correcting a misspelling elsewhere I noticed that Guioco Piano redirects to this page, making it more likely 
that that misspelling will be used elswhere. I'm not sure what the best way to handle common misspellings is, but an automatic
redirect doesn't seem optimal. If the mistake is common enough to need treatment, it should probably get a little page explaining
that it is a misspelling, with the link given there, no? (Total neophyte here.)
post added 09:31, 12 May 2005 from 82.228.195.112 (Talk) 
:I don't know how common that misspelling is, but it's clear that I'm doing it all the time.  Thanks for pointing this out.  I'm fixing the mistakes I made in Bishop's Opening, Hungarian Defense, and Ponziani Opening.  I made the mistake multiple times in the Bishop's Opening article alone.  Quale 15:23, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: This is an old discussion, but I'm not sure which is corect spelling now. The books I've looked at all say "Giuoco Piano", not "Guioco..."; is this an another example of anglo-saxons messing up other peoples languages? And how do you say it? (I'd say "Jzeeohkoh", but thats just me). Moonraker12 11:31, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Pronounce "joke-oh". The i is there to give the g a soft pronunciation, and is not pronounced separately. Kind of the converse to how English uses u to give g a hard pronunciation in words like "guest". 91.107.148.132 (talk) 15:57, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: In Italian, it's pronounced more like English "JAW-co".  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.231.219.179 (talk) 07:46, 18 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Guioco Piano (redirect) 

message: The Jerome gambit? Seriously? You might as well list all legal moves for White if you are listing this one. I'd recommend it be removed as you'll never see this played by anyone over 1600 FIDE in a tournament game. Your avegare club player would beat a GM who tried this opening.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.74.126.147 (talk) 22:36, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Because it's an obscure variation. We are not into that level or detail here. 4...Qf6 is played less then 1% of the time in that position. And while Yusapov(?) may of played that move once I can't see any reason to cover 4...Qf6, when 4....Nf6,4...Qe7,4...d6 and 4...Bb6 and all far more common. ChessCreator (talk) 02:16, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

text: Are you talking about the same position? It blocks in the Knight, gives up the possibility of d5, puts the queen on a square where it will likely be attacked by Bg5. According to chessgames.com it's the worse scoring move that's been played more then once in that position. ChessCreator (talk) 00:51, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Variations

message: The page "Italian Game" redirects here; it looks like it was merged in May this year.
The books I’ve read make a distinction between the Italian Game and the Giuoco Piano;
the Italian Game is all play after 3.Bc4, so includes Two knights Defence (3…Nf6) and the Hungarian Defence (3…Be7)
while the Giuoco Piano is just the play after 3…Bc5.
This also agrees with the wikibook pages on chess openings.
In any event the Giuoco Piano page only discusses play after 3…Bc5, so I was intending to open up the Italian Game page again.Does anyone have any strong objection to this? Moonraker12 12:22, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: See Talk:Italian Game and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Chess/Archive 5#A couple of things. 64.231.242.114 19:21, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

text: I don't have any objections.  Several months ago I tried to clarify whether the Italian Game is the GP, or everything after 3. Bc4, and I was not able to get a definitive answer. I hope you can clear it up.  Bubba73 (talk), 17:00, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

text: No objections at all here - go for it, and I'll help where I can. ELIMINATORJR 17:08, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  The Guioco Piano by Gufeld and Stesko says that the GP "is a branch of the Italian Game". In contrast, Italian Game and Evans Gambit by Pinski only gives GP, Evans Gambit, and a short chapter on the "Hungarian and other sidelines".  Bubba73 (talk), 17:55, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

text:  Looking back at the old discussion linked above, five of the six references I checked equated Italian with GP, only one included other third moves by Black.  Bubba73 (talk), 18:05, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I also now have another reference - Golombek's Encyclopedia of Chess.  It equates the GP and Italian, so my books are six to one in favor of GP (including Evans gambit) = Italian. Bubba73 (talk), 21:17, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, I'll have a go at it over the next few days. Do you know, is there any way of looking at the old page? I don't know if it still exists somewhere. Moonraker12 07:32, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Try this: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Italian_Game&action=history.  If you simply try to go to Italian Game, you'll be redirected to the G.P. page.  You can get to the redirect page itself by clicking on the Italian Game link at the top of the page in the message that tells you you've been redirected. Quale 19:46, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks; it looks like this isn't the first time this line's been followed. Moonraker12 12:26, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, done; I've left some further comments on the name thing there. Moonraker12 12:04, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Italian Game

message: Giuoco Piano?, no it's Gioco Piano, Giuoco means nothing. --84.42.196.104 (talk) 15:58, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That's what I always thought, and my Collins Gem confirms the word is "Gioco" meaning game. Also, Italian Wikipedia describes the opening as Gioco Piano, see http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partita_di_gioco_piano. However, most of the chess references I can find list it as "Guioco Piano". Can someone explain? 82.1.57.47 (talk) 08:43, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  No explanation but an observation that the 'Giuoco Piano' spelling is widespread in other wiki languages.     SunCreator (talk) 21:40, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

text: Also "Guioco". ("In this book the spelling Giuoco (in Giuoco Piano) has been used, but Guioco and Gioco are also seen."  Bibliography/Authors Note) --IHTS (talk) 04:43, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I always thought "guioco" was just an error, the "gi" combination represents the "j" sound in Italian so that would make it "gwee-oko" instead of "joko". But then I see even the scholarly Staunton spelled it "guioco". Don't know if any Italian would spell it that way. MaxBrowne (talk) 09:01, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Gioco Piano

message: The diagram over "Main line (Greco Attack) Position after 7...Nxe4" looks very wrong to me. If this is a diagram of what I think it is, there should not be a black pawn at e5, and there should be a white one at d4. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong position, but in that case the article seems very misleading. Could someone fix this? 24.226.77.23 (talk) 14:52, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed!  Bubba73 (talk), 17:34, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Diagram 

message: The article states that 9...Ne5 is interesting, and then gives the line 10.bxc3 Nxc4 11.Qd4 f5 12.Qxc4 d6 as a response.  While this is probably correct play for black, it seems to me that 11...Ncd6 is more likely, leading to 12. Qxg7 Qf6 13. Qxf6 Nxf6 14. Re1+ Nfe4 15. Nd2 f5 16. f3 O-O 17. fxe4 Re8 with good play for white. Is this worth mentioning? John Nowak (talk) 12:18, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alternate line 

message: The comments on this section are suddenly looking dated.  It seems like I am seeing this line in all the super-GM tournaments, usually with the move order 4. c3 Nf6 5. d3.  Not sure where to start in updating it.  Bruce leverett (talk) 03:10, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: 4.c3 Nf6 5.d3 is arguably the main line these days, but it can also be reached by 4.d3 Nf6 5.c3. The pianissimo proper is 4.d3 Nf6 5.Nc3 I think. The other fork is whether white plays b4 and chases the bishop or just plays Bb3-c2 Ruy Lopez style, which seems to be the modern GM practice. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 03:35, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

text: Anyway the reason I had a section for 5.d4 is that I was planning to create a corresponding section for 5.d3. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 03:37, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: That makes sense but it said 4.d4 and was in the wrong place, wrong level of heading, etc.  Sometimes nothing goes right.  Bruce leverett (talk) 20:01, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pianissimo