Talk:Portuguese language/Archive 1

message: Most Linguists (but some do not agree) say Portuguese and Galician are the same language - there are even dialectal maps. But politically they are separated languages, with very different ortography, w/strong spanish influence in sounds and lexicon, especially in the cities. Instituto Camões(organization of the Portuguese language, studying it) does not comment about Galicia. How should we treat this language in the article in order to be Neutral? Ethnologue is ambiguous in this, including it has a Portuguese dialect or as a language. The government of Galicia itself is ambiguous. -Pedro 11:02, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  What to do with Galician? 

message: :but by the 14th century Portuguese had become a mature language with a rich literary tradition, becoming a popular language for poetry in Iberia, adopted by many Leonese, Castilian, Aragonese and Catalan poets.
Probably this belongs more to Galician-Portuguese, but I doubt that there was significant activity in Galician-Portuguese in Aragon and Catalonia.
They already had Occitan as a poetry language!
Can you cite some examples?
-- Error
* Nops, the language was understood has Portuguese then (at least since 1290) - that is 13th century. Galician-Portuguese is a modern denomination for a common language. BTW Galician-Portuguese is understood has Old Portuguese.
Com efeito, o galego-português, língua falada, com pequenas diferenças, no noroeste da Península Ibérica, aquém e além do rio Minho, tornou-se, até cerca de 1350, a língua literária de toda a Peninsula, pois foi o idioma adoptado pelos poetas leoneses, castelhanos, aragoneses, catalães e, naturalmente, também pelos galegos e portugueses, perdurando isoladamente até cerca de 1450, data aproximada da sua substituição pelo castelhano. - Maria Ema T. Ferreira (Portuguese Romance Philologist) - If you dont understand I'll translate, about names that's the hardest thing, I know many names (many not tipical of Portugal nor Galicia), but were they were from, i dont know. -Pedro 01:25, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Catalan Portuguese

message: :As each barbarian tribe spoke Latin in a different way, the uniformity of the Peninsula was soon disrupted, leading to the formation of well-differentiated languages (Portuguese-Galician, Spanish and Catalan).
Is that a mainstream theory?
I understand that the influence of Barbarians may be limited to some words and maybe opening or closing communications among certain areas. 
The number of Barbarians was too low to impose their patterns on the Ibero-Romans.
-- Error
* I dont know, but yes it is a theory. Do you know a better hypotisis? I'm thinking and I'm starting to agree with you. I read in some places that it is just a temporal and natural alteration of Spoken Latin. What do you think? But, remember, the Barbarians became kings and rulled Iberia. But they were seen has barbarian and they adopted Latin culture and language. Why There was formed 3 different languages then? And for what I've seen of Spanish, it was even in the middle Ages very different from Portuguese, although much more similar than today. It is better to change the article. -Pedro 01:32, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Barbarians

message: :The only Galician deputy in the European Union Parliament, Camilo Nogueira, speaks in Portuguese
Is he the only Galician MEP or just the only Galician nationalist MEP?
-- Error 00:31, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Only Galician MEP

message: I've changed the sounds section. The article still misses three sounds: b, g and d between vowels (not very clear info about these sounds to be systematic and standarized). I dont know if I should put the diphtongs in the article. -Pedro 23:06, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: the 3 missing sounds

message: someone added info about Galicia in the article. Possibly a Galician (because of some of the added info). Should I delete it or place it in some specific area of the article? BTW I dont believe that 100% of people in Galicia speaks Galician. It is a very high number, but not 100%. And if it should continue in the table it should go with a notice.-Pedro 19:25, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Alterations in the article 

message: Are you sure that the Romance from Galicia and N Portugal is called Lusitanic Romance?
Lusitania is more Southwards than that.
Do we have maps?
-- Error 23:04, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Lusitanic Romance

message: :But there is no loan word in lexicon related to human feelings, all remaining of Latin origin
Isn't alboroço a Portuguese word?
--- Error 23:08, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Alborozo in Spanish means "happiness", "joy". "Confusion" would be alboroto. But I checked a dictionary and while the Portuguese word is cognate of one of them (the dictionary is confusing), it doesn't seem to have evolved in the same way. I checked the Spanish al- words and there are no "feelings" words but for alborozo. Interesting. -- Error 00:28, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Arabic loans