Talk:Venetian language

message: Text says "apoteca	pharmacy	farmacia	Apotheke (German)"
Why German and not Greek (just as Apotheke is from Greek, bodega in Spanish, apothicaire in French, etc.) ?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.143.217.180 (talk) 00:02, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  apoteca

message: Someone changed the color in this page's infobox, complaining that lawngreen is an eyesore.  I agree, it's not the best color, but the reason it was there is that is the (current) color in the template for all Indo-European languages.  If you have any better suggestions for a better color scheme (one that gives a unique color for all the known language families), please contribute to the discussion at the Wikipedia:WikiProject Languages.  And, I encourage anyone interested to help out with the project.  There are still a lot of languages with articles not using the template.--Tox 11:11, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Color in Infobox

message: If you are interested to support the creation of a Venetian Wikipedia you can go to:click here to see the request for a ven.wikipedia. Skafa  12:23, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia in Venetian 

message: I would be interested to see a discussion of Padovano in this article. Linguistically I expect it's just a dialect of Veneto, but I think it has some distinctive features. --Trovatore 23:10, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that, discussing about dialetto padovano, we would have to have more users coming from Padua :-) Giving you a short outlook on it, there is not a "unique" dialect in the area of Padua: it is a bit different going from "higher" plain (e.g. they say "eo xé", the x being like the s in "rose") to the "lower" plain (e.g. "eo zé", the z being pronounced like ts in "tsar"), as well as coming inside the city from the countryside (e.g. in the hurban area we use "iù/lù" for "he", while they use "eo/elo" for "he"); but even inside the city area we have different kinds of dialect, depending on disctricts but also on social classes (e.g. polite Paduan dialect is very near to the one spoken by dominant classes in Venice, another city where spoken dialect depends on many factors). But we are anyway speaking about different kinds of the same language, so we have no problem to communicate :-) even if nowadays the city area has Italian as primary language. A famous writer in Padovano (once called Pavano) was of course Ruzante, but there are minor authors even in recent times. Filippo83 (talk) 14:16, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Trovatore, you're right, sort of. The main problem is that this article is mislabeled. It's really about Venetan, of which Paduan and Venetian are sub-varieties. It would come as quite a surprise -- varying from amusing to offensive -- to padovani to learn that they speak Venetian. 47.32.20.133 (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 14:54, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Padovano?

message: This article claims the Veronese Riddle is in Venetian; the article on the Riddle says it's a transition between late Latin and early Italian.  Which is it?  Binabik80 16:03, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Now I remember i inserted that link. I tried to be succint and in doing so i could not explain everything. I believe what is being said here is not at odds with the other article, see my comment here. By the way, this article has told me something i was not quite aware of. I live in Verona and i have always noticed strong similarities between Spanish and Venetian. Fascinating. --Wikipedius 23:15, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Veronese Riddle]] 

message: I inserted a tree because the "X branches off after Y" language does not make sense to me.  It's true there is a partial tree in the box (if a tree pruned of all branches but one can be called a tree) but that tree does not show how Venetian is related to French and Spanish.  —Tamfang 17:57, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Um, ok. I tried to clarify the intended meaning; see if it makes sense now. (By the way, that parag was not mine.) But perhaps we should omit the explanation althogether and just keep the conclusion, namely: "In the traditional classification, Venetian is more closely related to French and Spanish (in that order) than to Italian."  After all, the internal node names like "Gallo-Iberian" and "Gallo-Romance" are just hypothetical entities, not real languages. Moreover, i gather that the tree assumed in this paragraph is only an opinion of some linguists, not the Absolute Truth. In fact, it seems that Romance is one of the examples that are usually invoked to show that language evolution cannot be described by a tree.All the best, Jorge Stolfi 23:01, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'm satisfied with your new language.  Thanks.  —Tamfang 04:45, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Language family tree

message: To set the record straight (until someone disagrees with me!), to say that Veneto and Spanish are "are mutually comprehensible to some extent" is completely inappropriate.  This is true in so far as they are both Romance languages, but it gives the impression (and believe me, this is its intent) that they are somehow more closely related than Veneto is to Italian.  This is quite frankly ridiculous.  I am a native speaker of Spanish and have lived in Veneto for several years now.  When I speak in Spanish, I might as well be speaking in Greek.  Of course they get a word here or there, but I should hope so since they are both derived from Latin.  And quite frankly, when I hear Veneto being spoken (rather frequently) I understand what I understand not because I know Spanish, but because I know Italian.
The reason for this desperate attempt to try to link Veneto to Spanish and simultaneously distance it from Italian is, in my opinion, not based on evidence but on wishful thinking.  The fact that Veneto has erroneously been coupled up with Spanish, Catalan (see their language version!) and French (rather less for some reason)is a recent mistake made by people who are not linguists.  It is based on geographical location rather than hard evidence.  If someone disagrees with me, please cite a reliable source.  (To save you lots of wasted time, don't bother, because you won't find one).  Certainly Veneto (and other north eastern languages like Friulano) have a lot in common with Iberian languages, but that is to be expected.  If you do a very simple pseudo-linguistic exercise by comparing random phrases in Spanish, Veneto and Italian, it becomes immediately obvious which ones look (and sound) more similar.
So why is it necessary to include these comparisons between Spanish and Veneto?  Here's my theory.  Veneto is a minority language with no official status (not even in Veneto).  It has traditionally been referred to (as it still is by most Veneti) a "dialect" (dialetto), and there are lots of patriotic Veneti who want to distance it from Italian, which is for some absurd reason treated like an enemy.  The fact of the matter is that fewer and fewer young Veneti are capable or indeed want to speak Veneto, which is continuously being seen by young generations as provincial.
All of this is related to the ridiculous idea that many north eastern Italians have that they are "Celtic".  Besides being historically and genetically incorrect, it becomes immediately obvious to the visitor of Veneto that the people have absolutely nothing in common with the residual Celtic peoples of Europe.  The reason for this legend about Italian Celts is based on xenophobia and racism.  The Celtic cross (which remains a purely religious symbol in Ireland) has been perverted into a symbol of fascism by various far right-wing Italians.  The racism is rife (take a look at the recent situation in Via Anelli in Padova where a Berlin-type wall was erected to separate the Italians from the foreigners.)  There have even been people making claims that there are astounding links between Veneto and the Celtic languages!
So, to conclude my ranting, is it really necessary to include all of this "mutually comprehensible" rubbish in an otherwise serious (and well written) article?  And if so, is it asking too much to include a reliable reference or source, rather than pure fantastical speculation?  (I would include a translation in Spanish, but I don't know if very many Veneti would have dictionaries to translate it!) Massimo377 02:04, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Veneto is like Written Italian pronounced with the spanish phonology.Kasumi-genx (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 16:35, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Veneto isn't Spanish

message: I am from Dalmatia, and so far I haven't heard there exist any remnants of Venetian language here. Some citation or source to confirm it would be in order, otherwise it should be removed. --Arny 14:12, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, Ethnologue is not always accurate. Maybe we should write something like "According to Ethnologue, ...". --zeno 19:02, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: AFAIK, Venetian slowly supplanted the Istrian and Dalmatian spoken in those areas (due to their being parts of the Venetian Republic until the end of the 18th C.) Of course, by then the numbers of Romance speakers compared to Croats was very small and combine this with the ethnic cleansing of the area by Tito's Yugoslavia after WWII and there's not likely to be much trace left by now. Seek100 17:44, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Venetian used to be the main language of Dalmatia  (almost the only one spoken in the coastal areas). The region had a clear latin legacy and its original romance language (dalmatian) gradually transformed and was absorbed in the venetian language. even in areas out of the venetian control (ragusa)the venetian language was the main language and the slavs living in the rural internal areas (their immigration was helped and sustained by the venetian republic) when moved to the towns to study learnt the language, as it was the cultural language for both latin and non-latin inhabitants. Its importance decreased in the nineteenth century when the croats coming from the internal areas became majority (with the help of the austrians, historically enemy of the italians, seen as a possible destabilizing element) and was (almost totally) erased from Dalmatia during the yugoslav years after years of fight between italians and croats (both behaved in a terrible way...forcing, periodically, the other part to speak their own language if they didn't want to be killed or persecuted). with the final yugoslav victory the italians (sons of the former "venetian dalmatians") were forced to leave the country and many of them were killed. even if the venetian presence in dalmatia has, by now, almost disappeared its presence is stil clearly visible  (the majority of the towns has a distinct venetian heritage). the places which remained empty after the ethnic cleansing were populated by slavs coming from other regions  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.14.36.152 (talk) 14:14, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course, this is not true. In Dalmatia Croats were clear majority since settlement and in coastal cities from 11th and 12th century onward. Sure, Venetian dominance influenced the population, many Italians came, but nevertheless they were always minority, 10-15% maximum. Even in cities were minority. Only in Zadar between world wars Italians were majority because many Croatians left the city after Italian occupation, others were expelled later by Italian authorities.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.60.11.104 (talk) 23:36, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Venetian in Dalmatia? 

message: Please, follow the changes in Italian Wikipedia. This article has a lot of mistakes and this is similar to the old italian version. --Ilario 01:12, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some errors 

message: I'm currently working on a script intended to create short articles on political parties on a variety of wikipedias simultaneously. However, in order for the technique to work I need help with translations to various languages. If you know any of the languages listed at User:Soman/Lang-Help, then please help by filling in the blanks. For example I need help with Venetian. Thanks, --Soman 15:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help with translation 

message: This sentence makes absolutely no sense at all. I'm trying to count how many non sequiturs there are in there:
#Having its own morphology, syntax and lexicon is neither a criterion for not being a dialect, nor  for not being descended from Italian. Dialects too have their own morphologies, syntax and lexica, and so do things that are descended from something else.
#The sentence is playing fast and loose with the concept of "Italian" in the first place. If by "Italian" is meant the modern standard variety of Italian, then of course Veneziano isn't descended from it; they are obviously sister varieties descended from whatever historical ancestor(s) they had. If by "Italian" is meant the historical ancestor of today's standard Italian, well, that needs to be explained in the "Classification" section.
#In dialect geography, "having dialect status within a single language unit" and "being descended from a single, unique historical ancestor" are not really the same thing anyway.
I'm trying to come up with a better formulation, but maybe somebody else has some ideas too. Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:58, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  It should be noted that according to the article, just less than half of the people in the Veneto speak Venetian. I would argue that number is even less, since the overwhelming majority of the natives speak Venetian Italian (or an Italianized Venetian), not Venetian per say. 66.183.217.31 20:24, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  "They are obviously sister varieties descended from whatever historical ancestors they had"; the problem is that Venetian has a more recent common ancestor with varieties of Romance spoken outside of Italy than with Tuscan/Italian itself. As far as I can see, it's classified as Gallo-Romance along with Oïl varieties (French), Gallo-Italic (Lombard, Ligurian, Piedmontese), Franco-Provençal/Arpitan, Occitano-Romance (Catalan, Occitan) and Rhaeto-Romance (Romansh, Friulian, Ladin). This group is distinct from standard Italian, which as a literary form of Tuscan is an Italo-Dalmatian variety along with Neapolitan, Sicilian and Corsican. saɪm duʃan Talk|Contribs 04:51, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Questionable sentence in intro 

message: "Venetian was spread through the world by the massive emigration from the Veneto region between 1870 and 1905. Those migrants created large Venetian-speaking communities in Brazil, Mexico, and Romania..."
This statement is incorrect regarding Romania. There was no migration to Romania during this period and any traces of Venetian/ Italian language are rooted in trading outposts established much earlier (11th-17th centuries). Nonetheless, the article on Tulcea makes no reference to any Venetian connection, so I don't know if the statement about Tulcea or Romania is valid at all. Can anyone confirm? 66.183.217.31 20:36, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tulcea, Romania?? 

message: Well it makes sense that there should be speakers of Venetian in these two countries judging by the centuries of their rule. Is there however any proof from their individual censa that Venetian language is declared? Or is it simply taken for granted to be Venetian when infact the locals have actually declared Italian? I always thought that the number of indigenous Western Romance language speakers of the Adriatic were mostly descended from the Italians who settled there during the interwar period; I was led to believe that the pre-settled Western Romance speakers who surely did speak Venetian embraced the Standard Italian language and an Italian national identity. Evlekis 17:00, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Croatia and Slovenia

message: Just a small addend here. Recently I went to Italy together with my mother for the first time, who speaks the 'Talian' (Venetian variant spoken in Brazil). We had an appointment with relatives from my father´s side, which are from the Vicenza vicinity. My mother is discendant from the Verona vicinity. When we met these people, after 130 years that my mother´s family had left the Veneto region, they identified strong Veronese accent/dialect on her talk. That was surprising.
Besides that, a common belief here in Brazil is that Venetian became the most spoken italian dialect here because there was a massive wave of immigrants from the Veneto. The italians from other regions had to adapt to be understood, so it is not odd to have people here which family roots are from Calabria, Friuli or Toscana that DO speak Venetian.
Sadly, during the WWII, there was strong political persecution against italian, german and japanese heritage here in Brazil, so very few people still do talk some Venetian. Most people who do still speak some venetian are in their fifties or older.
I myself, understand a few words, but most of the time I talk regular Italian (did a course) when I want to make my 'nonno' happy (son of a Veronese immigrant).
Ciao! 
--HSeganfredo (talk) 04:27, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Curiosity

message: I thought the Western Romance languages were supposed to be defined by a plural in -s. But here Venetian is listed as a Western Romance language while it seems to exhibit an Italian plural: gati, gate. So what's the matter? Steinbach (fka Caesarion) 18:52, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Western Romance 

message: The matter is that this article is not very scientific and objective as it is disturbed by politics. That's why, rightly, this is a B-class article!
I give you two examples of true statements which cannot be found in the article: 
- the Venetian language is not officially recognised in Italy as a minority language;
- Italian (Tuscan) was adopted by Venetians (as official and culture language) well before the unification of Italy.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.140.0.27 (talk) 14:32, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  B-class: that's why 

message: Someone replaced sporc[o] by onto in several examples that refer to a dirty dog.  Is this correct?  To my ears, sporc means "dirty" in general sense, while ont[o] (akin to Italian unto) is more specific, namely "greasy".  I would not use onto for mud.  Is this correct? Is it a matter of regional variation? (I am Brazilian-born but my parents were recent immigrants from Treviso and I grew up speaking Venetian at home.)  --Jorge Stolfi (talk) 03:55, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Willowin (talk) 08:40, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sporc vs Onto 

message: There are portions of this section that need some more careful word choices and phrasing
Examples:
"the once proud language was eclipsed"
"Tuscan which was imposed"
and so on. "once proud" and "imposed" are a bit strong in meaning. There are a few other examples within that section.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.61.141.157 (talk) 16:07, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bias tag in History section. 

message: The article claimed that
:Some pronouns retain a neuter form reserved for abstract nouns (par questo "for this reason" , de queło "about that fact" n.) different from the masculin (par 'sto qua "for this boy/dog" , de queło là "about that man/book" m.) while in Italian masculine forms also work for the neuter (per questo="for this boy/reason"; di quello="about that man/fact").
I see no evidence here for a neuter gender.  The difference between "'sto" and "questo" is euphonic and/or sense (like Italian "cosa fai" and "cos'è").  To show a neuter gender one has to show a 3rd declension for adjectives or artiles, other than masculine/feminine, used for a special set of nouns.  All the best, --Jorge Stolfi (talk) 19:49, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neuter gender? 

message: Trying to discuss conservative Venetian and Venetian Italian in the same article is realy confusing. The latter should be only mentioned here, and dicsussed in a separate article.  All the best, --Jorge Stolfi (talk) 19:49, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Venetian Italian should be discussed in a separate alrticle

message: The article talks about 2million people speaking Venetian language, but I think they are a larger number. Anyway, the only data I found (since there is no official census) is this (may 2009) poll:
http://www.demos.it/a00334.php
The question was: "how frequently do you use [your] dialect?"; and it was referred to the regions of Veneto and Friuli-Venezia Giulia, and the province of Trento.
These percentages refer to the people who usually speak dialect in this area:
: in family: 67.2% (74.3% in 2001);
: with friends: 72.8% (78.7% in 2001);
: on the work place: 43.7% (57% in 2001).
In Friuli-VG we have a census on spoken languages, because Friulian is recognised by Italy: usually Venetian-spekers are included among the Italian-speakers ( http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friuli_Venezia_Giulia#Lingue ); non-romance minorities in Veneto and the province of Trento are present but count very few people; so we have a total of about 6,050,000 people to consider. Of them, about 4,400,000 people usually speak Venetian at least with their friends, but they were up to 4,750,000 people in 2001.
And we are talking about North-East Italy only (excluding Istria etc.).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Filippo83 (talk • contribs) 09:35, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: How many speakers in North-East Italy?

message: Hello everyone: I would like to point out an inconsistency in this article. The language table (top right) shows Venetian as a "Gallo-Italic" language, which it is not, at least not according to the Ethonologue classification, which is as follows (see Northern Italian and Ethnologue): 
    * Gallo-Italic group (as a subset group) 
          o Piedmontese
          o Ligurian
          o Lombard
                + Western Lombard
                + Eastern Lombard
          o Emiliano-Romagnolo
                + Emiliano
                + Romagnolo
    * Venetian group (included as Gallo-Italian according to Ethnologue) 
          o Venetian proper
          o Istriot (which classification is quite controversial and difficult)
The reason for this is that Venetian has a different substrate language (Venetic), while the others have a Gallic (Celtic) substrate. Could somebody - not me - please correct the table, as I need to cite the CORRECT classification and terminology in other languages. I think you will all agree that pan-Wiki consistency is a good thing.
For completeness, I should add that there are other classifications - Pellegrini, Geoffrey Hull, etc. - but if we are using the Ethnologue classification, then we should follow their terminology, shouldn't we? Thank you.--LombardBeige (talk) 06:39, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Inconsistency: Venetian not Gallo-Italic, but Gallo-Italian (Ethonologue classification and terminology

message: I've read somewhere that the name of the modern country of Montenegro, in Europe, comes from the venetian language. Can this be confirmed or is the name spanish? "Montenegro" would sound the same in spanish, but not in italian (where it would be "Monte Nero").  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.65.194.248 (talk) 15:43, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The origin of the name in most western languages is from the Venetian Monte Negro (not the Spanish!). Have a look at Montenegro#Etymology. Mariokempes (talk) 22:56, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Montenegro

message: i think there are many more venetian speakers than 2 millions...something like 90% or more of the sole population of veneto region (5 million people) can understand it and,for sure,more than 2 millions use it everyday (not counting the ones using it in the other italian regions of friuli and trentino or abroad)   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.14.36.152 (talk) 17:11, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Number of speakers

message: the article says that modern italian is based on tuscan and sardinian (??)...that is totally incorrect. modern italian is based on tuscan (florentine) and has been influenced from the other main italian regional languages from the north (lombard,venetian) and from the south (the sicilian influence was particularly important) but sardinian,which is an isolated language, spoken in one of the most closed italian regions (sardinia is an island and had historically far less influence on italy itself than many other regions, comprising also the other "big island" sicily) gave (for that reason) very little to the new national language.   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.14.36.152 (talk) 14:21, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Basis of Standard Italian 

message: I placed the  template.  The article's opening infobox says it's one of the Gallo-Italic languages, while the Classification section of the article text says it's one of the Italo-Dalmatian languages.  I'm not an expert on this, which is why I didn't fix it myself. - Gilgamesh (talk) 18:31, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It should be a Gallo-Italic language, see the map on the article on Gallo-Italic languages.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.89.216.62 (talk) 16:50, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: There are differing opinions about the classification of Venetian; I have now resolved the contradiction by explaining this in the introduction and removing everything but the consensus classification from the infobox. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 22:13, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article self-contradiction 

message: The creator of the completely unsourced Italo-Dalmatian languages stub is dead set on placing Venetian on his page, having reverted two attempts to bring it in line with what you guys had here. If he's right, peachy, and his page could use some sources. If he's wrong (which I assume he is from Venetian's geographic location, its similarities with French, this page's Italian version, his page's Italian version, cursory googling, etc...), it'd be nice to have some help dealing with him and whatever source he's misremembering. (Or is there something in between where Venetian really should be categorized as a separate Romance branch the way Sardinian is?)
In any case, once we have this sorted, kindly keep this page, his page, Gallo-Romance, and Italian dialects on the same page, ideally with some WP:RS cites. Ciao! — LlywelynII 23:23, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: According to the referenced claims in this article, Venetian is not Gallo-Italian, pace Ethnologue, but closest to Istriot and Tuscan.  That would place it squarely within Italo-Dalmatian.  If it belongs elsewhere, this article will need to be corrected as well.  — kwami (talk) 23:30, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Italo-Dalmatian or Gallo-Romance?

message: In this article there used to be a section claiming that the venetian past particle ending in -esto (piovesto, volesto etc) derived from the venetic language. I returned here now to find the source of that statement, but the whole section is gone. Does anybody has a source about this? All the sources I've found claim that the particle derives from latin, but I'm interested in the Venetic theory. Regards  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.236.122.143 (talk) 16:18, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: It's still mentioned under "Grammar", at the very end of the section. However, I am extremely sceptical, not least because the -sto-forms of Ancient Venetic (such as donasto, corresponding to Latin donavit, or vhagsto, corresponding to Latin fecit) are not past participles, but finite verb forms descended from the Proto-Indo-European s-aorist. I'm not sure where the Venetian past participles in -sto come from, but I suspect there is an internal explanation involving only Latin/Romance forms. (Maybe the -s- was carried over analogically from the Venetian cognate of the Italian -isc-suffix in e. g. capisce, a cognate of which is found in other Romance languages too, for example in French finis, finissent.) --Florian Blaschke (talk) 01:09, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Past particle -esto 

message: Can you help??!!
I've been trying to find information on Venetian root classification. I am puzzled that this language/dialect is surrounded by Friulian, Romansch and Ladin and those three are commonly derived while Venetian is reported to share similarities to dialects spoken farther away. How can this be the case within a dialect continuum? That practically transgresses the laws of science! The only thing I can think of is that with the Republic of Venice having been in existence for centuries that an independent standard formed while all around it developed independently, like Sardinian after breaking away linguistically. But then there are two problems here: first the Veneto is not insular, and second, the long-standing republic ruled areas east of Venice so this would have meant Friuli where the spoken language is a form of Rhaeto-Romansch. Can anyone throw light?
And for the record? What exactly is Venetian closest related to? The article at one point suggests Istriot and Tuscan Italian, the latter being to basis for standard Italian, while elsewhere it is suggested that Venetian is closer to Spanish and French standards than to Italian. All vague for those of us less informed. Please let me know. --OJ (TALK) 11:25, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not an expert on Romance linguistics, but see my comment here for a possible way to approach a solution of the mystery. Venetian is certainly not particularly close to Spanish or French apart from superficial similarities, but neither should its differences from Standard Italian be understated; the traditional language Venetian – unlike the regional variety of Standard Italian spoken in the Veneto – certainly should not be described as an "Italian dialect". --Florian Blaschke (talk) 00:57, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: A perpetual problem/ambiguity engendered by the widespread insistence on labeling non-national indigenous Romance languages of Italy "dialects". To specialists accustomed to dealing with the Italian linguistic landscape, Italian dialect is normally construed as meaning 'small/minor/local (indigenous Romance) language of Italy'. But it's certainly open to ambiguity, so that non-specialists seem to interpret it naturally as 'variety of Italian'. (And then there's Corsica, whose pre-French languages are definitely of Italian typology, yet spoken in what is now politically France.) Barefoot through the chollas (talk) 18:40, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Venetian classification: Can anyone help? 

message: Some information on the extent of mutual intelligibility between Venetian and standard Italian would be useful in this article. 109.145.27.215 (talk) 09:52, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Why? I'm not trying to be snide; I'm genuinely curious. 47.32.20.133 (talk) 01:23, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

text: That's not a particularly useful test (and I'm not sure how mere superficial phonetic similarity should inherently aid intelligibility). A more telling test would be to play a sound-only recording of a fast-paced everyday conversation on an unknown topic (preferrably one that isn't full of telltale loanwords) between native speakers of Venetian (of an ideally conservative, "broad" variant not strongly influenced by Standard Italian) in the presence of a native (ideally monolingual, illiterate, linguistically uneducated) speaker of Standard Italian and ask this speaker to translate the conversation. That's a lot trickier – and an actual test because you can't simply claim to understand; you have to actually prove it. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 17:20, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, definitely speech, not reading. Shouldn't be difficult to do by using the recordings accompanying Alberto Zamboni's Veneto. Profilo dei dialetti italiani, 5. Pisa: Pacini. Barefoot through the chollas (talk) 13:55, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mutual intelligibility with Italian 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Venetian language. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://archive.is/20120801012132/http://rosario.redescalabriniana.org/noticia/Talian-em-busca-de-mais-reconhecimento to http://rosario.redescalabriniana.org/noticia/Talian-em-busca-de-mais-reconhecimento
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 22:48, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: "Another peculiarity of the language is the use of the phrase eser drìo (literally, "to be behind") to indicate continuing action: Me pare, el xe drìo parlàr My father is speaking"
This isn't only Venetian: in Western Lombardy dialects we use the same form, "El me pà a l'è dré a parlà" (depending on the area, sometimes people actually say "ul me pà", "ol me pà", etc.
Still, this French-style form (mon père est en train de parler) is very much used in Lombard dialects.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.36.195.188 (talk) 21:34, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  eser drìo (literally, "to be behind") not specifically Venetian 

message: In several places there seems to be confusion between ł and ƚ, not sure in which way to fix:
* " in some orthographic norms is indicated with the letter ⟨ł⟩", with a footnote pointing to the other one, "U+023D Ƚ LATIN CAPITAL LETTER L WITH BAR and U+019A ƚ LATIN SMALL LETTER L WITH BAR"
* "Another recent convention is to use ⟨ł⟩ (in place of older ⟨ł⟩ )", with the first ł actually linking to the page on ƚ.
These could be simply typos, but both seem used so maybe more explanation would be needed. The Venetian wikipedia for instance uses ł
https://vec.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%81%C3%A9ngua_v%C3%A8neta
while Omniglot uses ƚ https://omniglot.com/writing/venetian.htm
GrandTurion (talk) 05:49, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  ł or ƚ or both? confusing/typos? 

message: Since the user Fdom5997 keeps reverting my changes, I'll open the topic in a more sources-oriented way here, so that we can clear it once for all I hope.
At my latest revision that the use of [ɰ] for an I.P.A. transcription of the "elle evanescente" has no sources ([ɰ] being closer to [ɡ] and [ɣ] than to an /e/ semivocalic sound it's unconceivable why this transcription is still being used) a grammar of a "Prof. Silvano Belloni" has been added as a reference for the existence of [ɰ] as an allophone of /l/ in Venetian.
I can't find any section in the grammar of Belloni that uses I.P.A. transcription for this sound (or I.P.A. trascription at all for all that matters).
Please correct me if I'm wrong - the book is readily available in PDF-version on the web, though of dubious academic quality/background.
Moreover, I can add a list of academic literature of Venetian linguists that clearly transcript the sound as (AND ONLY AS) [e̯]:
1. Zamboni, Alberto (1980): Veneto. Pisa: Pacini. 
(The author has phonetic transcriptions of vinyl-recordings for every Venetian variety in his monography!).
2. Ferguson, Ronnie (2007): A Linguistic History of Venice. Firenze: Olschki.
3. Tomasin's article "elle evanescente" is already in the bibliography of the Wikipedia page - Tomasin, Lorenzo (2010), La cosiddetta "elle evanescente" del veneziano: fra dialettologia e storia linguistica (PDF), Palermo: Centro di studi filologici e linguistici siciliani.
For these names (and obviously Cortelazzo) there is a continuous cross-referencing in academic literature about Venetian, Belloni I never heard of and I've never seen cited his name anywhere in academic papers that I readily use for my academic work.
If needed I can reference the exact pages in these works and add more sources from (Giulio) Lepschy and (Luciano) Canepari, both are well known Italian linguistics, the latter a Venetian phonetician.
Also, there is no difference between "word initially and elsewhere" - this is incorrect. It should be "word-initially and intervocalically" /l/ > /e̯/.
That only in the case that we don't have a /e, i/ sound around, there it gets deleted altogether i.e. telefono [teˈɛfono] "telephone".
Hence i.e. luna [ˈe̯una] "moon", la cola [e̯a ˈkɔe̯a] "the glue", but vardarla [vaɾˈdaɾla] "looking-her". Or lezar [ˈɛzaɾ] "to read" but par lezar [paɾ‿ˈlɛzaɾ] "for reading".
So obviously the transcription of one of the most famous Venetian words gondola should be [ˈɡoŋdoe̯a], [ˈɡoŋdoa] or [ˈɡoŋdola], but surely not [ˈɡoŋdoɰa].
I'd like to have some help to clear this topic, especially because it's not only about this page: I suppose the flawed informations that are written in both the Italian page of Wikipedia about Venetian as well as in the English page about the Voiced velar approximant /ɰ/ can be traced back to to the incorrect information that is to be found on this page.
(PS. I'm a native speaker of this language and linguistics grad)
Gianluca Beraldo (talk) 19:43, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help with the phonetic transcription of the elle evanescente = allophone of /l/ 

message: It is strange that "astiàr", meaning "to bore", is listed as coming from Gothic "𐌷𐌰𐌹𐍆𐍃𐍄𐍃" (haifsts) meaning "contest", when there is a Spanish word which is "hastiar" that also means "to bore", which is said to come from Latin "fastidiare" and has the same pronunciation as Venetian "astiàr". 
hastiar from Wiktionary. †_JuanPa_† (talk) 23:48, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Astiàr