Talk:Mick Mannock

message: Why is there no mention anywhere of the definitive book on Edward 'Mick' Mannock, written by a modern British historian at the University of Southampton who has published extensively, and who enjoyed the full cooperation of the family?  Read:
Adrian Smith, Mick Mannock Fighter Pilot: Myth, Life and Politics (Palgrave, 2001)
Because it isn't really definitive; it contains a number of contentious claims and is written from a politically prejudiced perspective.  That doesn't make it wrong; it just makes is contentious. Ira Jones knew Mannock and arguably has a better claim to have written a more accurate account. Kentish 31 Aug 2017  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.45.52.143 (talk) 08:42, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Biography 

message: This page has been vandalised a number of times by someone with a biased POV.  
There is no confirmed proof of Mannock's birth place: it should be listed as either Aldershot, Brighton or Co Cork.  Unless someone can provide a birth certificate, simply quoting a biography is not acceptable because the biographies differ.  
Some of the vandalism has clearly been done by a prejudiced Irish nationalist trying to claim Mannock as Irish - I accept he may have been Irish but this is not confirmed. I note the use of "Scotts-Irish" (deleted) instead of "Scots-Irish", which suggested the vandalism was not done by someone from Ireland or Scotland......
Equally, Mannock was a supporter of the British Empire and of Home Rule for Ireland.  These are not mutually exclusive. An Independent Ireland could have existed within the Empire.
spymaster 2024, 2 August 2016  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:DF:CBD1:7201:25E9:FB73:E611:9938 (talk) 19:24, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism

message: The shooting down of the Aviatik trainers is also the subject of speculation and may be more due to Ira Jones' championing of Mannock's cause after the end of the war.(Harryurz 18:32, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Alan Clark makes several references to this incident in Aces High, but since that book contains no footnotes I have been unable to trace the origin of the story. Drutt (talk) 07:16, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Aviatik Incident

message: Much of this section is speculation and covered elsewhere in the article; as this is a reference encyclopedia can i suggest this part is edited out?
The Red Baron did not 'fly solo missions' either.... Harryurz 15:44, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I did some copyediting of that section to make it readable but I'm not so sure it was worthwhile. If its going to stay it needs referencing at the very least. To my mind most of the heroes of that war are now for the most part forgotten and Mannock is no exception so is there any point to pointing it out? Sources needed or it goes in my opinion. --LiamE 13:20, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The Forgotten Ace

message: One of the reference articles has Mr. Mannock as having been born in Scotland (Major Mick Mannock), which is correct?  Durrus
Mannock was born in either Aldershot, Brighton or Ireland -depending on which source you read! First Ive heard about scotland though Harryurz 10:14, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Scotland

message: Much of this section has become speculative - ; words like 'arguably' etc should be avoided and POV's listed- particularly for the red baron references , which add nothing to the article , unless these are references , is everyone in agreement they should go? thanks Harryurz 11:11, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I took out the Red Baron claim, even before I saw this comment. I had heard that he was a great marksman, but an indifferent pilot, which would make it somewhat dubious. Clarityfiend 23:12, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mannock the tactician

message: It would surely be worth consulting the latest biography, published in 2008, by Franks and Saunders.  I have only looked at it fairly briefly in a local library.  They claim to have found his grave in a war cemetery, currently marked as that of an unknown airman.  However their comments on his birthplace do cast some light but also seem a bit sloppy.  There is no record of his birth in Somerset House, which points towards a Cork birthplace.  However they have not checked the records in Dublin, and they get confused by referring to "UK records". PatGallacher (talk) 16:51, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Latest biography

message: This claim is not supported by the list of victories substantiated for Mannock. He did have a run of three victories over enemy craft destroyed by fire over two consecutive days--one on 17 May and two on the 18th.
Georgejdorner (talk) 21:20, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: He might be referring to 21st May. http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/england/mannock.php --Mezod (talk) 13:43, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Four flamers in one day?

message: Hello, all,
I have removed James Ira Thomas Jones'scontoversial claim that his friend Mannock scored 73 victories. It more properly belongs in the Jones bio. As it was before I deleted it, the false total was explained at a greater length than Mannock's real score, which was a ridiculous distortion.
Georgejdorner (talk) 05:46, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Claim of 73 victories should be covered in "Taffy" Jones bio 

message: Looking at the Irish register office website, if he was born in Ireland, it should be possible to obtain a photocopy of his birth certificate by post for only 6 euros.  Somebody who lives in Dublin could check it for even less than this.  Anyone want to try? PatGallacher (talk) 21:11, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Irish birth certificate 

message: In the 'rules', is it possible to find out exactly what is meant by "Pilots must keep physically fit by exercise and the moderate use of stimulants?" This caught my eye because it could mean many things, especially in the language of the time:
* "Moderate" could, as now, mean either "average, neither especially heavy or especially light" ("moderate use of alcohol"), or it could mean "careful, conservative" (as in "use in moderation"). 
* "Stimulants" could mean coffee, the most obvious meaning. It could possibly mean something else we consider a stimulant in the modern sense (although since amphetamine was not available in WW1 the only choice would have been cocaine, and that does not seem reasonable.) 
* Or, "stimulants" could mean alcohol. No one would call that a stimulant today, but in the usage of the early 20th century it was fairly common.
So he could be advising pilots not to drink heavily, or he could be telling them to drink lots of coffee. Any idea which?
Roches (talk) 22:17, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moderate use of stimulants? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: The Timewatch program was re-broadcast recently and I recorded it. Nowhere does it suggest the detail contained in our 
The program does not say the engine was hit, just the plane, nor does it say it caught fire immediately, nor speculates whether he jumped or was thrown, nor says where the body was found in relation to it, nor that the body showed no gunshot wounds - it says they simply do not know. The program also does  not contain the quote from Inglis in that same section. - Sitush (talk) 12:26, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fails verification 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
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Participate in the deletion discussion at the . —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:50, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion 

message: In the "Early life and education" it states that Mannock "sat as the Honourable Member for Waterford, the seat of John Redmond leader of the Irish Parliamentary Party". However it does not make clear where he "sat" as "Member for Waterford". Clearly he did not sit for the actual Waterford seat in parliament, so what does this actually mean? the previous text relates to his membership of the Wellingborough Independent Labour Party, so was it in a a group connected to that? If so this needs to be made clear. Later in the article there is mention of him trying to start a branch of the  "Wellingborough Parliament", so is it related to this. I know some Scottish cities had this time had "Parliaments" which were political debating and discussion societies that modeled themselves on the Parliament of the United Kingdom  and whose members "represented" seats based on real parliamentary constituencies, so I wonder if it was something like this? If this is it needs to be made clear. Perhaps someone could check the original source and amend the text to clarify. Dunarc (talk) 23:49, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Just checked the cited source on Google Books. It says that in 1908 the Wellingborough YMCA took over a 'large building on Church Street, opposite the town's Post Office' and that Mannock became secretary of the YMCA's mock parliament and 'sat' as the MP for Waterford, in reality Redmond's seat. (Presumably, in the mock debates, Mannock argued for Home Rule.) Amended the text accordingly. Khamba Tendal (talk) 17:14, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confusing statement re sitting "as the Honourable Member for Waterford" that needs clarification