Talk:Neue Deutsche Härte

message: This "subgenre" was clearly "invented" to describe one or two bands that never maintained any popularity.  Please see this as a reason to merge this article in to the article for Industrial Metal, as a subcategory.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.243.180.105 (talk) 15:00, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Right, because Rammstein selling over 15 million records worldwide clearl isn't maintaining any popularity at all. --Veyneru (talk) 19:06, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: while the "never maintained popularity" bit is ludicrous, the essence of his message still holds true. "neue deutsche härte" is not a genre, just a media labeling of german industrial metal/nu metal songs by specific bands. this really doesnt deserve an article of its own --92.193.9.243 (talk) 22:13, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, but the idea that NDH even remotely resembles nu-metal is laughable. I can't get my head around the idea that anyone would think that nu-metal bands like Linkin Park, SOiL, Taproot etc have any sort of resemblance to the likes of Rammstein and Oomph! They both gained popularity in the Anglosphere around the late 1990s/early 2000s, but that's literally it. Oh yes, and nu-metal is occasionally spelt with an umlauted U as well. Eddiehimself (talk) 23:27, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please Merge with Industrial Metal 

message: I pretty much looked at the German wikipedia article as reference. Please add whatever you feel is needed to improve this article. -Iopq 10:29, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: The list is largely based on the group "NDH - Neue Deutsche Haerte" from last.fm--I can't think of a group of people who would know more about the genre.  I made this list from characteristics I noticed in the most popular german bands on that list--Rammstein, Oomph, Eisbrecher, Megaherz, and Unheilig.  I posted the list there first, and it seemed to be generally accepted.
Leptogenesis (talk) 23:37, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: A LastFM discussion is not a reliable source. I'm going to start eliminating original research. Aryder779 (talk) 15:55, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Common Characteristics 

message: I don't see how this is stylistically connected. -Iopq 12:02, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  L'Ame Immortelle 

message: How and where exactly does KMFDM fit into this genre?  They've been recording since 1984 (earlier than the apparent founding of this genre) and have incorporated dozens of genres throughout their career.  Each album is typically quite different (stylistically) from the previous.  I'm not arguing that they be removed from the article--I'm just wondering if there is a particular album or single that tags them as NDH-metal.  I'd like to incorporated this into the KMFDM article if necessary. --buck 16:47, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The same can be argued about Die Krupps, who formed in 1980. --68.13.244.167 12:53, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: KMFDM

message: One of the unregistered editors had a problem with several of the bands that I'd added to the list, so rather than endlessly changing the list I thought we could discuss it here.
All of the bands that I added to that list (excepting a_Life[Divided]) are listed on the German page on NDH, and beyond that, several of the more well known bands removed (Subway to Sally, Tanzwut, In Extremo) are often listed as NDH on German websites (amazon.de, for one) While I'll agree that Subway to Sally's earlier work is most definitely not NDH, Engelskrieger and Nord Nord Ost definitely do fit into this category, as does In Extremo's more recent releases (tracks like Horizont or Poc vecem from Mein Rasend Herz), and of course Tanzwut's work has generally been classified as NDH. Just about any track from their most recent release, Schattenreiter, could fall easily into the genre. 
I'm happy to have a dialogue about this, so if you feel that I'm completely off base here I'd be happy to have you tell me why. Tev 04:26, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Disputed status as NDH

message: Should we only be counting bands that come from German speaking countries, or bands that sing in German, or...? Lately there have been some additions that, while stylistically they qualify as NDH, are either singing in an unrelated language or are from a country that doesn't have German as an official language. Any thoughts? Tev 03:57, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: What should be considered NDH

message: I always thought that was folk-metal.....at least In Extremo
:I am sick of re-editing the NDH list to exclude these two bands. Someone keeps changing it. They really ARE folk metal despite what some lists say when you do a google search says. People should listen to a band instead of randomly adding what they see on the list of a random website. Most of them are copied and pasted, anyway :/ --Hydroracee (talk) 19:34, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: In Extremo, Subway to sally....?

message: Why is the name of the article Neue Deutsche härte, with Neue Deutsche Härte as a redirect?  The latter is the correct spelling, since nouns are always capitalized in German.  As long as the name is in German, shouldn't it be capitalized according to German rules? DES (talk) 12:33, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The whole term is probably a proper noun in itself anyway (like New Wave), so rendering it in a first-letter-uppercase format seems fairly reasonable. - Cyrus XIII (talk) 22:35, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe when it comes to German nouns and such, it stays lower case - see Talk:Du hast for and example. ≈ The Haunted Angel Review Me! 23:44, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, but I fail to see how this example supports a lowercasing of "Härte". The consensus on Talk:Du hast seems to be to follow standard German capitalization as opposed to English title case, yet "hast" is a verb (lowercase in German) and "Härte" is a noun (uppercase in German). See also: :Neue Deutsche Welle (from which the term we are discussing here was probably derived). - Cyrus XIII (talk) 00:48, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spelling 

message: ::It is true that the Neue Deutsche Härte are heavily influenced by Industrial Metal, but that doesn't mean that it's the only genre that would describe the sound of NDH. Many different genres like EBM, Dark Electro, Neofolk, Goth, Rock and all kinds of metal music have influenced the NDH. The important thing is that the NDH has a unique sound created out of all those genres, whether German or German-oriented, the bands have created the NDH genre, and the only differences between them are influences (like Goth, Medieval, Metal etc.). Coldwave (USA) is similiar to NDH, though it has it's own sound, it should not be considered the same as Industrial Metal. A Coldwave (USA) band Hanzel und Gretyl should be mentioned, as they are from New York, but their Industrial Rock/Industrial Metal sound is heavily influenced by German language and NDH-style playing. Therefore, the Neue Deutsche Härte and/or Coldwave (USA) should never be the same as the term Industrial Metal.
--Cjepo (talk) 23:08, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I still think of Industrial Metal as more of a broader genre. It stems down from Rock... Industrial... Industrial Metal... then splits off into more sub-genres such as Coldwave and NDH.  It's just like you can say that Oomph! is still a rock/metal group. They are but they're also a sub-genre of that. Xe7al (talk) 01:20, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: But it's important that you see that the NDH is not just a musical genre, it's a group of German or German-oriented bands who have a unique sound that just happens to be almost the same as Industrial metal! Oomph have gone through EBM beginnings, Industrial Metal and finally ended in something that sounds like alternative metal. Still, Oomph are the pioneers of NDH, and are most famous for their Industrial Metal albums and songs!
--Cjepo (talk) 02:24, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  NDH & Coldwave influences 

message: I suggest this page be merged with industrial metal. Pages on Wikipedia tend to do better when they centralize a great deal of information, rather than breaking off into myriad specialized sub-pages. Aryder779 (talk) 19:22, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree too-- NDH and Industrial metal are pretty similar, but they are different. Also, there are some Industrial metal bands that are not german, so its incorrect to merge those articles. --Alguzaraaa// (talk) 15:50, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge with industrial metal 

message: New proposal -- This page should be merged with European industrial metal. The section on that page is better sourced and better written. There's not a great difference between OOMPH and Die Krupps. Aryder779 (talk) 23:00, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The contents of this page are now identical with the subsection in European industrial metal. If no one has any serious objection, I will redirect this page in the next few days. Aryder779 (talk) 22:14, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: There's no "European industrial metal". This is a neologism. Neue Deutsche Härte is an established genre and genre term.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.134.18.202 (talk) 13:02, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I know this proposal is quite dated but... I have a serious objection. NDH is NDH and is an established genre by itself. Rammstein, Unheilig, etc. are NDH. Rammstein can be considered as Industrial too, but does that mean that most if not all of these European industrial metal bands can be considered as NDH. Would anyone in their right mind say that Godflesh is NDH? It doesn't make any sense at all to merge them, then. --Hydroracee (talk) 19:30, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge with European industrial metal 

message: I'm saying truth, why?
NDH is fusion of Hard Rock and TECHNO, not industrial --82.139.5.13 (talk) 12:51, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: User 82.139.5.13 is absolutely right. Only deaf people believe that NDH and IM are the same thing. What has a band such as Eisbrecher to do with the music of Ministry's Psalm 69? Nothing.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.134.20.174 (talk) 20:02, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neue Deutsche Harte and Industrial Metal are NOT the same 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018) 

message: The lead section doesn’t have to be that’s vague, It is considerd a fusion genre, not just a subgenre of rock music. ~SML • TP  12:34, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead section 

message: What's all this in the themes about featuring shock topics like "necrophilia and sexual abuse of children"? I've listened to quite a bit of NDH and although it can get sexual at times, I've never heard anything like this. I feel like the source in question (a German book that I can't track down online) may be referring more to death metal or other genres. If someone could provide an exact quote from the book or some other evidence to clear this up that would be great because this just seems a little bizarre to me. WingsOfBone (talk) 02:52, 18 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Themes of NDH 

message: I'm wondering if there is a good case to be made about the influence of the 'Dissolution of the Soviet Union' on NDH? I couldn't find any references to capitalism/communism/east-west/'berlin wall' in the wiki or the talk page. My reasons for suspecting an influence are: the timing (early-mid 90s reformed Germany), a lot of 'western' imported themes and ideas in NDH, the emergence of an art scene is common in times of transformation. I'm wondering if the lack of reference is a deliberate omission because the association is simply not there/not a strong one, or because it hasn't been explored fully.
 
If the latter, I would be prepared to research further and contribute to the Wiki, as it's an interesting area of exploration for me. I'm keen to hear what you think, so please leave your thoughts. Freshfdgeehtsj (talk) 10:44, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dissolution of Soviet Union