Talk:Nicolas Steno

message: I've restored portions, since bodies of saints are of import.  Novangelis (talk) 06:48, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Burial and exhumation 

message: What about his missing skull? Its mentioned in passing as if it's a stated fact, but it's not talked about anywhere. Was his body found to be missing a skull when it was exhumed? Is there another reason? How do you know the skull was missing?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.102.19.7 (talk) 04:16, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I found multiple references in a quick Google search, all are nearly verbatim what is in this article. Either those entries on the web are copy and pasted from Wikipedia or this entry was copy and pasted from one of the other sources on the web. Can someone who is familiar with the history of Nicolac Steno kindly verify information on the missing skull AND if this article was copied from external sources? Or perhaps, entered by the Roman Catholic Church, in which case, the data should be more complete.Wzrd1 (talk) 17:06, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing Skull 

message: While he may have live across the street from Peder Griffenfeld(Peder Schumacher), does this have bearing on his life?  If the two didn't interact, this may only be trivia. Novangelis (talk) 17:26, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neighbor 

message: I suggest that somebody, interested in this page, could insert an external link to the following page describing, with pictures, some Steno’s memories in Florence: http://himetop.wikidot.com/niels-stensen
I don’t do it myself because I’m also an Administrator of this site (Himetop) and it could be a violation of the Wikipedia Conflict of Interest policy. Thanks for your attention.
Luca Borghi (talk) 17:34, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible link to Niels Stensen items on “Himetop – The History of medicine topographical database” 

message: Interested in the claim that he is the "father of geology". I've also come across this distinction being applied to James Hutton, Charles Lyell, and William Smith. Who decides? :-) I've amended the sentence in the introduction from "considered father of geology and stratiagraphy" to end in "by some". This title seems to be a very subjective distinction and I am not sure how contentious it is in a fact based encyclopedia. Very interested to hear opinions on how somebody is declared to be a "father" (or a "mother") of a scientific field. --mgaved (talk) 09:39, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I am afraid the reason is simply chronological. You could also add Hooke to the list. IMHO it would better to refer to both as the fathers of modern geology. If making a distinction is critical, we may refer to Steno as founder of the science of Geology and Hutton, father of the modern geology per this reference .--Alberto Fernandez Fernandez (talk) 10:36, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well if we're talking about the earliest, Wikipedia's Geology article suggests Theophrastus (372-287 BCE) :-) "The study of the physical material of the Earth dates back at least to ancient Greece when Theophrastus (372-287 BCE) wrote the work Peri Lithon (On Stones)." Current edit giving him shared credit with Hutton and referring to "modern geology" looks nicer, cheers! --mgaved (talk) 16:26, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

text: (e/c)Well, chronologically speaking those other you mention could only be the "son, grandson and great-grandson of geology" (and William Smith is actually only named "the father of English geology). But of course it is always better to name who actually has bestowed that title upon the person, since there are always going to be others disagreeing with such characterisations. --Saddhiyama (talk) 10:42, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The phrasing I changed it to was "His investigations and his subsequent conclusions on fossils and rock formation has led scholars to consider him one of the founders of modern stratigraphy and, together with James Hutton, the founder of modern geology." --Harizotoh9 (talk) 06:53, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Who decides he is the "father of geology"

message: It would be nice if Google could give a head's up when it unleashes these mass visits through their doodles. Anyway, the lede has this rather obtuse statement: "By 1659, Steno had decided not to accept a statement as true simply because it was written in a book, but rather to rely on his own research...." with a curious reference. Surely this can be stated better. More generally, the lede should be expanded to conform to our style guideline. Eusebeus (talk) 11:01, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you one of these aristocrats that does not want to make his hands filthy? The reference is from one of the best Dutch historians on the moment on which this article owns a lot of information. It is possible there is an English translation of this book. If not someone should start. Greetings from Holland. Taksen (talk) 12:53, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Are there any great scientists who did accept a statement as true simply because it was written in a book, instead of relying on their own research? It's a meaningless platitude. I'm sure great historians throw platitudes around, but that's not what makes them great historians. It's also not appropriate style for Wikipeia. --Nbauman (talk) 13:14, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with Nbauman: The "book" platitude seems more appropriate for a Disney-esque write-up than Wikipedia.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gef05 (talk • contribs) 16:15, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Lede

message: Welcome Googlers. http://stats.grok.se/en/latest/Nicolas_Steno --Nbauman (talk) 13:17, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added the infobox to the top. - M0rphzone (talk) 19:45, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page view statistics 

message: What was he bishop of?  Not clear from the article... AnonMoos (talk) 13:32, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: According to this he was Bishop of Münster 1680-83. I have added the word "bishop" in the relevant sentence. --Saddhiyama (talk) 14:03, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

text: He was auxilliary bishop of Munster and titular bishop of Titiopolis (today's Turkey) according to New Cath Ency. I changed the article accordingly. --Alberto Fernandez Fernandez (talk) 14:24, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Bishop

message: This looks like it might give you some more reference material
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/Steno/steno6.php
EdwardLane (talk) 16:16, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: more info

message: Google Honors Blessed Nicolas Steno, but they don't mention that he was a Catholic priest, but he was. He was beatified by John Paul II in 1987. Some of his accomplishments:
The Danish natural scientist — who was born “Niels Stensen” on Jan. 11, 1638 — is widely considered the father of geology.
Fittingly, today’s green-topped logo is rendered as rock strata with embedded fossils — reflecting twin ideas for which Steno is best known.
The strata illustrate Steno’s “principle of original horizonality,” which essentially says that rock layers form horizontally — and only appear differently if later disturbances cause the deviation. And the fossils in the lower stratified rock help illustrate Steno’s “law of superposition,” which — simply put — says that the oldest rock layers are sequentially deposited on the bottom unless otherwise disturbed.
For such research, Steno also became known as the father of stratigraphy.--79.222.242.97 (talk) 17:34, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Are we talking about the same article?  The lede mentions than he was a bishop, and there's a whole section, Nicolas Steno#Religious studies, about his career plus another one on his beatification. Favonian (talk) 18:12, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Steno was a Catholic priest 

message: The duct is known today as "Stensen's duct". This is the common term used in facial/dental anatomy texts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.170.235.246 (talk) 16:14, 11 January 2012‎ (UTC)
:Stensen's duct is named after Niels Stensen and not Nicolas Steno.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.74.115.3 (talk) 20:28, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Same guy, as explained in Nicolas Steno#Early life and career. Favonian (talk) 20:49, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anatomy 

message: Why is he called "Blessed" Nicolas Steno?--Duckwing (talk) 20:06, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It's the title given to people who have been beatified by the Catholic Church. Favonian (talk) 20:54, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I find it jarring. The title is not very common in general English usage; calling him "Blessed" makes it look as though Wikipedia believes that he had been objectively blessed by a higher power. Per MOS:HONORIFIC, "Blessed" or other honorifics are not used when naming a person; I've therefore removed the appellation from the first sentence. The lead already tells us that he's been beatified by the Catholic Church.  Sandstein  21:01, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Leaving it out is fine with me, though I find it strange that we happily include the worldly "Sir" in other articles.  Doubt that Wikipedia believes those people have been objectively assigned to lord it over us commoners.  Ah well, this is not the right forum for that discussion, and I don't feel up to tackling the aristocratic lobby. Favonian (talk) 21:27, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree but I assume that "Sir" is a more commonly recognized honorific and leaving it out would be more controversial to many than putting it in.--Duckwing (talk) 12:48, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

text: You're no theologian either, huh? One can only be beatified after someone has died. The process may only start years after one has died and follows a specific path. One is named Blessed if a miracle can be attributed to that person. If a second is attributed, then they are canonized and given the title of 'saint'. Mangwanani (talk)  05:11, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blessed 

message: Does anyone know what miracle he is claimed to have performed in order to be beatified? --Duckwing (talk) 12:55, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Beatification

message: "Without the missing skull" is redundent at best, and just an awkward double negative, used twice in the article.   It should be "without the skull, as it was missing" or simply, "but with the skull missing" or something along those lines.
98.143.89.34 (talk) 22:24, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: It's not a double negative and your changes are arguably more awkward than how it's presented. — Bility (talk) 22:46, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request on 11 January 2012 

message: Why are his dates given in 'old style and 'N.S.'?  I presume the answer to this question will also explain why the styles are 10 days apart instead of 13. --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 20:18, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The explanation may be found at Old Style and New Style dates. Favonian (talk) 20:25, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

text: Actually, it does explain both. Denmark, like other Protestant countries, had not yet switched to the Gregorian calendar (it didn't happen until 1700), so Steno was born on January 1, "local time", but we (and Google Doodle) celebrate his birthday on January 11.  The gap between the two calendars has widened since the 17th century from 10 days to the present 13, which is illustrated in a table in the above-mentioned article. Favonian (talk) 10:46, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  "N.S."? 

message: There has been some back-and-forth regarding the identity of the person who consecrated Steno bishop in 1677.  At present, the infobox names Pope Innocent XI based on references by Kardel and Garrett Winter.  The former says that Steno was "consecrated by Pope Innocent XI, as bishop and apostolic vicar", whereas the latter states that Innocent was "appointing him Bishop [...] and Apostolic Vicar".  So far, so WP:RS, but I found an article in the Allgemeine Deutsche Biographie, where it says that Steno was "von dem Cardinal Barbarigo zum Titularbischof von Titiopolis geweiht und vom Papste zum apostolischen Vicar für Hannover und die nordischen Missionen (die Hansestädte, Schleswig-Holstein, Dänemark, Schweden und Norwegen) ernannt" — in other words consecrated by Cardinal Barbarigo but appointed by the pope.  Normally, we would prefer the secondary sources over the (tertiary) ADB, but I'm inclined to believe the latter. Kardel is an M.D. and a good source on Steno's anatomical work, but maybe less so on the niceties of the Apostolic Succession, and Garrett Winter doesn't actually use the word "consecrate", only "appoint".  The ADB is, as far as I know, considered very reliable, and, hey, it's German and the original is printed in Fraktur ;) The claim of Barbarigo as consecrator is supported by this website, but I don't know how reliable it is.
I suspect most readers will be less than fascinated by this nitpicking, but I invite comments from fellow nitpickers. Favonian (talk) 21:19, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Although I reverted the article back to Pope Innocent XI as consecrator, I was to quick in doing so. Cardinal Barbarigo was presiding the ceremony of the episcopal ordination of Steno (consecration is not in use since Council Vatican II). In that sense he was the consecrator of Steno. Not a very useful info IMHO but that it is what the infobox is all about. Here is another source  I would suggest to put Barbarigo back. --Alberto Fernandez Fernandez (talk) 08:31, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

text: Great!  Thanks for implementing it. Favonian (talk) 10:40, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Steno's consecrator 

message: Even if we can't agree to drop the inaccurate not-a-genitive comment, let us at least agree to replace the un-attested name "Nicolas Stenonius" with either his English name or one of his two attested Latin names. "Nicolas" is the English form of his first name, and "Stenonius" is a Latin form of his surname. Rwflammang (talk) 17:52, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I corrected his name in the caption to match the rest of the article.--Alberto Fernandez Fernandez (talk) 14:19, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Macaronic]] mix-up

message: According to L. Kooijmans on p. 345 of his "Gevaarlijke kennis" there is an account of the opening of the grave in 1946 on page 997 of "Nicolai Stenonis epistolae et epistolae ad eum datae quas cum prooemio ac notis germanice scriptis" edidit Gustav Scherz. 2 tom. Kopenhagen und Freiburg, Nordisk Forlag und Herder, 1952.Taksen (talk) 02:11, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Missing skull part II

message: Can anyone tell me why this article implies that Steno rejected the Bible because of his observations? Steno upheld the Biblical account of a global flood, even if adopters of his theories did not. 69.47.28.209 (talk) 05:27, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Steno's Beliefs 

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thread_title:  External links modified