Talk:Super Smash Bros. Melee/Archive 2

message: Is the future section really needed anymore?  The opening paragraph links to both the original Super Smash Bros. and to Brawl – personally, I think that's enough.  As I recall, the future section was originally created beacause the fate of the series was uncertain at the time; now that we know for sure that there will be a sequel, I think the section has outlived its relevance.  --Sparky Lurkdragon 04:29, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: All right, no one's responded for about a week, so I'm just going to chop out the future section.  We already have a link to Brawl in the opening paragraph. --Sparky Lurkdragon 23:14, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Future section still needed?

message: Any advice on how to beat Giga Bowser? And will Giga Bowser be back in the next game?
:beating him is easy, getting to him is hard. Just spam airiels inside of him.Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz
::If you mean event match 51 then use Jigglypuff and use rest(Down B) in him.Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz
:::I actually beat Giga Bowser with JP on both versions. It's pretty easy to get to him with JP once you've mastered rest. I can kill just about anything (Not including the Hand Bros.) with rest. You just have to master it. 24.48.189.235 16:28, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Rest isn't always an instant KO. Jaxad0127 06:17, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I used Yoshi and kept on doing the flutter kick on him. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.31.152.232 (talk • contribs) .
Guys, can we discuss the article, not the game, please?  There are plenty of guides out there on the rest of the Internet. --Sparky Lurkdragon 17:13, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Giga Bowser

message: What issue of Nintendo Power claimed the 2 extra trophies to be false? Nismojoe 14:41, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Erm...no issue. Those trophies are real. I've seen them with my own eyes. RememberMe? 21:00, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No issue I've read said that.(I've read all the issues since this game came out)Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz 15:55, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ninteno Power + extra trophies 

message: If you edit the page, you'll notice that there is a Preceded By and a Followed By section in the infobox (Or whatever you call it, I'm drawing a blank), but it doesn't appear! Does anybody know why, and if so if it can be fixed? RememberMe? 21:01, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That would require changing the template. Jaxad0127 21:05, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Said fields were only briefly used in the template; they were taken back out because of the sheer ambiguity involved, along with concerns of the template's size. Long story short, those fields are no longer in use. Nifboy 23:15, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Preceded/Followed By? 

message: Should we mention that the game topped (or was at least in the the top ten of) the GameCube's sales list every month for over two years? Jaxad0127 20:08, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you can find a source, feel free to include it.  That would be much better than saying that "ti's the top-selling game" Hbdragon88 07:21, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Once again, source? Jaxad0127 01:51, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually I think for one month (about a year ago) it dropped to top 20.Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz 15:20, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Awards 

message: I've been a subscriber to Nintendo Power since issue 3, and I was never sent this CD, nor have I heard anything about it.  tyam 05:45, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Really? I have been a subscriber for a few years and I recieved it. It is in a square coated paper caase inbetween the pages of an issue(I forget which one). It's not too special though, unless you play it while playing the game(like a different soundtrack).Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz 15:54, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Smashing Live CD? 

message: I've recently added a  tag for the sentence that says Snake was going to be included, but the game was too far in development.  I do remember reading that, but I'd like to make sure that it was a legitimate source. --Mr. Lefty Talk to me! 19:19, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Never mind, Xubelox took care of it. --Mr. Lefty Talk to me! 16:07, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citation needed 

message: It needs to be dispersed to other parts of the article or outright deleted, because it has become very, very long. Hbdragon88 03:59, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: its pointless and some of the information is unverifiable, I'd suggest it be deleted. 69.140.106.213 00:06, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I moved some of the trivia to sections I felt it would be appropriate, and I created a new "differences in versions" section because there was a lot of trivia that was specific to changes made in the various regional releases of the game. Jeff Silvers 04:41, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trivia is getting too long 

message: I know, personally of at least 2 glitches in SSMB.
One being the Black Hole glitch.
SOMEONE SHOULD ADD a GLITCH section to this article.
--159.83.4.139 22:53, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should we add a Glitch Section? 

message: I think it's notable to say that tournaments have arisen across the States, but this article is so specific it's basically advertising for the hosts (It's a borderline section page too).  I think it needs to be revised and greatly shortened.
Kestrel 21:44, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ROFLton.  This is more detailed than the damn game description itself, and I thought that this was supposed to be about the game.  Various editors have removed a ton of game info because it was too detailed - either shifting it to StrategyWiki or to other character artciles.  We seriously need to trim down this tournament section or else, at this rate, it's going to be bigger than the gameplay section itself. Hbdragon88
Seriously.  At the most, the article should note that "several large Smash Bros. tournaments have been held.." but it shouldn't provide this many specifics.  These people don't need a mention because their names in this article exist basically as advertising rather than as relevant, informative content.  Would a printed encyclopedia article about Smash Bros include such specific information about those who hold tournaments?  No, but it would likely acknowledge that such tournaments exist.  Don't worry, I'll fix it up sometime soon.   Kestrel 05:28, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

text: I'm in agreement that the whole tournament section doesn't really do much for the article.  I mean, who would look up Super Smash Bros. Melee on Wikipedia to read info about some tournaments being held.  The fact they are even being held tells me nothing about the game, which is what the article is supposed to be about.  If anything, it should be split from the main article, then those who want to can add to it as much info as they see fit.  That way, there can be a detailed page about Smash Bros. tourneys, while at the same time, the main Melee page can be about the game itself.  I, for one, think this is a fair compromise.  -SaturnYoshi 08:19, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem with that is, well, what other games have Wikipedia articles on their tournament scene? Halo doesn't, Pokemon doesn't... etc.  It seems like too narrow an interest for Wikipedia to me, something better suited for a specialized Super Smash Bros. fansite. --Sparky Lurkdragon 01:07, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I feel the same way.  Are we going to have to vote to keep or remove the tournament section from the article??  -SaturnYoshi 19:06, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I agree.  Thank you.  Those pics that were added nearly made my head explode out of rage.  -SaturnYoshi 08:42, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tournament section mostly self promotion 

message: Why is there no mention of the tier system in the article? Considering its importance regarding tournaments (and also its recent revision), I think it deserves a spot in the article. 128.2.246.100 02:27, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Because, quite frankly, it's not something that really has encyclopediac value; it explicitly only has impact on those playing in national tournaments, and there are no reliable sources that discuss it. Nifboy 03:56, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tier system 

message: I am not familiar with the differneces in the versions, and it doens't seem to be mentioned here. I know they expanded the size of the homerun field.. does someone know enough to make a section? 207.179.172.220 18:12, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Different Versions 

message: Changes I just made:
#How the Toad Hoax is used to disprove other rumors - not relevent and also unsourced.
#Tournaments - smashboards.com is not a reliable source.  Boards are not reliable sources.  MLG is backed up by a source, as well as being a national tournamnet, and thus remians.  Removed tons or irrelevent and trivial details ("5 stocks left" is meaningless to those who don't play this game).
#Removed images - Sonic, TAils, and Toad were just decorative.  If we could get the EGM screens or upload some of the Toax Hoax, they would be appropriate.  Cut the trophies gallery from three images to one.
I want this to at least pass a WP:GA, so there you have it. Hbdragon88 23:21, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unsourced statements removed 

message: After looking through the relevant websites, I found no evidence that SSBM received said award.  If anyone has evidence that disproves my claim, feel free to re-add the info, but for now, I've removed it. --Mr. Lefty Talk to me! 23:46, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  IGN Editor's Choice Award 

message: I failed this article as a GA due to the extensive trivia section and the large number of bulleted lists. Some P. Erson 14:15, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Failed GA nomination

message: Concerning this line, in the Version Differences section:
 *Ice Climbers appear as simply "Ice Climber" because many Japanese words are both singular and plural. 
I have done some studies on the Japanese language (truthfully, I'm just beginning to learn it, but anyway), and have always read that Japanese does not have distinct plural inflections - thus any given noun, for instance, could be either singular or plural depending on context. A quick Google search also yields some things about a "-tachi" suffix (which I've only seen on pronouns; mind, like I said, I'm nowhere near fluent), though I've not read the associated documents.
Someone care to clarify this? —Laogeodritt [ Talk | Contribs ] 20:49, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you check the article's history, this is the only wording acceptable to 199.126.137.209. It took a small edit war to arrive at it. Jaxad0127 23:05, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "...many Japanese words are both singular and plural" 

message: There is now (and has been for a while), a wikisite devoted entirely to the SSB series, I believe that deserves to be on the external links section. It is a newer site, but there are a handful of very devoted members (including myself) who update the site daily. It can be found at www.smashwiki.com/wiki. Thanks.24.220.197.19 22:41, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The fact it's newer, means it shouldn't be in external links yet. Wikipedia isn't the place to spam your fan sites and/or personal wiki sites. RobJ1981 18:27, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wait, you're a member there? Can you help me? It says I need a Smashboards account to log in, which I have, but when I enter my name and password, it says I don't exist! (And, yes, I think it should be under external links) RememberMe? 19:18, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I never thought of smashwiki as being a "personal" wiki site. If that one is, why isn't any other wiki branch? Or even the Wikipedia itself? It's new, but it has close to all of the information there is to be had. This game has a LOT more depth than most people would think it to be. I ask you, RobJ1981, did you even look at the site? 24.220.197.19 19:34, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

text: If there isn't objection, I'm going to edit it in within the course of the next week. 00:58, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Isn't SmashWiki the "official" (whatever that would be) Wiki of Smashboards?  If that is the case I would not characterize it as a minor fansite, but as part of a major fansite. --MaskedSheik 18:18, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, it is the offical wiki of SSBM. King Kirby requested and set it up, remember? I still can't find any solid objections. I've never heard of the SSBM MobyGames link in the external links now. I don't doubt it as a "major" site, but it's not  encyclopedic value, as Smashwiki aims to be. If there is a serious objection, I want to hear it. Or at least elaborate on the "minor fan site" status. Oddeven2002 03:54, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Why wouldn't it be live? It's up, it's on, it's running. I don't think having a wiki, which is essentially an encyclopedia, being exclusive is what KK had in mind when he made it. If what you are saying is true, which I have my doubts is, why wouldn't the "valued members" be editing now? It's basically MaskedMarth, Delphiki, OMNIGAMER, a hand full of others, and myself. Not exactly "valued members" Oddeven2002 01:14, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Haha, I can't say the "value" of OMNIGAMER's membership has ever been in question but yes, it's live and everything, it just wasn't announced to the community officially--only in the Back Room. Obviously once a link gets out on the internet, there's no stopping it so I didn't mean to imply that it shouldn't be cited in any way. --Randall00 Talk 16:25, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Smashwiki

message: I have removed the mention that Bowser and Peach were slated to appear in Super Smash Bros., as, after a Google search, I cannot find a source.  However, if someone wants to search more diligently and finds a source, they are welcome to re-add the information. --Mr. Lefty Talk to me! 17:03, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  No source for "Bowser and Peach in SSB" 

message: I was wondering if we could make a list of the Pokémon appearing In-Game, from Pokéballs and possibly in the PokéFloats stage. The Super Smash Bros. article has one and I think it's quite nice, though this article is already so long already that I don't want to clutter it up if it's not necessary. Perhaps I could add it to the List of NPCs article if it won't work here?--MJMyers2 12:39, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There used to be a list, but it was given the chop a long time ago.  The NPCs article might make a good place for it, though, as well as for the SSB Pokemon. --Sparky Lurkdragon 03:09, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of Pokémon Appearing In-Game 

message: THis is getting ridiculous.  We need to remember Avoid peacock terms and realize that Wikipedia is here to report facts.  It is not a vehicle for self-promotion.  Among the things I just removed (bolding is mine): "held one of the largest national tournaments ever" "The number of users on Smashboards has more than doubled in the last year" "The popularity of Smash as a competitive fighter will surely continue to swell" "with the influx of new members on Smashboards the local tournament scene will continue to prosper." Let's keep it simple. Hbdragon88 22:02, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This section has been nothing but a source of problems since it was created.  I personally find it to be utterly useless, but if it's going to be kept it needs to be watched closely so it doesn't become greater than the info on the game itself again.  -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 22:19, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In Nintendo Power article number 195 they list the number of registered users at Smashboards at over 20,000. Going to the site now you can clearly see that is has surpassed 40,000. That is roughly double the amount of users in one years time. How is largest national tournament incorrect when that is exactly what it was? I can understand taking out some of the other stuff though. 164.107.94.192 16:43, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree with HBdragon88. I think this new version edited by him is the best. It removed possible self-promotion without removing information. Also to Wikipedian06, the tournament section is notable. This section has already been cleaned up please do not remove it. Valoem talk 13:44, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I'm all for purging this entire section. Non-notable for Wikipedia. Wikipedian06 19:49, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's fine that you think it is not notable. However, it meets notability requirement for Wikipedia. Removing factual verfiable information is vandalism. Valoem talk 00:08, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The sources cited don't meet Wikipedia:Reliable Sources requirements. Wikipedian06 08:29, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So we'll find better ones. Andre (talk) 15:48, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tournaments section pruning 

message: I think this section is fine because it shows the limits of the game. Valoem talk 03:39, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The amount of detail it goes into is extremely game guide-ish and features and advanced level of gameplay that the casual reader really wouldn't be interested in. Hbdragon88 03:46, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think the casual reader would be interested in being able to play as Giga Bowser and crazy characters. Also on a side note the new version for tournament section is good, but you still have errors on it also I DID add a citation if you didnt see. I added a link from MLG homepage. Valoem talk 04:00, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

text: A large reason Smash was added to MLG roster was because of the number of players that showed up at local/national tournaments. MLG is not ignorant of "underground" communities. When TG6 pulled over 100 people, making it one of the first Smash tournaments to do so, MLG began to see real potential, hence the "not by coincidence" line. It looks fine without it as well. OC2 could be removed, it is included in case people want to know about the international smash scene, which has roughly a dozen or so traveling players. This of course is not vital to the section. FC and TG are vital however, Matt Deezie is considered by most to be the father of the Smash community, and FC has run two of the largest Smash tournaments to date. I will be putting up a seasons total for Smash on MLG soon (a month or so, maybe less), so there will be an official source for the number of people at each MLG tournament (there were 206 at MLG NY, making it the largest tournament to date). Alphazealot 21:48, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup Debug Menu 

message: Fixed minor error in caption to "Tamagon" trophy picture. Tamagon appears only in the Japanese version of the game, and was removed from the North American release because of its apparent association with the occult (from the "Demon World" series of games). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.131.167.26 (talk • contribs) 
:That's false.  I have the Tamagon trophy on my game, and it's the US version.  -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 02:40, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tamagon trophy fix 

message: Something very obvious worries me about this article: why isn't there a section on Stages? I would have thought it would be a cert in an article like this. Super Smash Bros has a section on this, and so does Super Smash Bros. Brawl, even though the game isn't out yet!--Ninty 19:13, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see any reason why not, so I'll work on it as soon as I get the chance :) --DSMeatte 00:22, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Please don't. Listing individual stages merely pads the article without adding any significant content. For example, featured article Super Mario 64 works splendidly without them. Nifboy 07:08, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  What about if we make that list as another page? The SSBM article does that for the characters, and it really doesn't seem right that SSBM doesn't have spmthing for stages when SSB and SSBB does. (though I can understand Brawl, since it's still in development and all) DSMeatte 21:53, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

text: It's still game guide material; only hardcore players would be interested in a list of unlockable stages.  Anyway, I feel that this falls under Wikipedia:Listcruft; the stages are pretty indiscriminate and is only of interest to a small number of people. Hbdragon88 22:37, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: For The Love Of Stages

message: I've seen this forum linked over and over again on all of the Smash Bros. related articles. This forum has a whopping 19 members, and I'm pretty sure that puts it in the unnotable department. So if anyone sees the forum linked on any of the SSB related pages, do your best and delete it. Paji out ^_^ Comrade Pajitnov 22:06, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Smash Syndicate Forums 

message: An IP user is adding the follow: 
"During the first year of the launch a single-elimination 5 stock tournament was held by popular gaming company IGN in New York, Miami, Los Angeles, Tokyo, and Kyoto. In each city the prize was $200 equivalent. Most notable wins are Masashi in Tokyo, Ken Hoang in Los Angeles and youngest ever winner (at time 8 years) Amir Nili in Miami."
This is not true there never was such a tournament if anyone sees anything like this please removed it. Valoem talk 16:53, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tournament section under attack by sneak vandalism 

message: Didn't there used to be a SSBM site? If so, what happened to it?Johnny's pizza 20:10, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You're going to have be more specific than that - which site? Hbdragon88 01:41, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Website