Talk:List of dialects of English

message: Please see Talk:Varieties of English#Merge list to main article.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ<  16:53, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  merge discussion 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: Not moved   Calidum 16:56, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: List of dialects of English →  – Given the lack of universal definition of dialect, and the inclusion of languoids that are not really considered dialects of English, the article should be titled "List of varieties of English". Soumya-8974 talk contribs subpages 14:09, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 15 June 2020 

message: Some post-closure observations, in case this comes up again: Referring to English dialects as "varieties" is a weird Wikipedianism found in the MoS (due to some argument back in the early 2000s). It is not normal English usage, nor normal linguistic usage (variety is used in sometimes in sociolinguistics as a blanket term, a synonym of lect (or isolect), which all have a meaning too broad to be useful in this context (it encompasses everything from registers and styles of speaking within one dialect, all the way up to entire languages and even language continuua/groups.  The non-standard, recent linguistics neologism "languoid" really isn't very different in excessive scope from that. And all this stuff is WP:JARGON that virtually none of our readers would arrive here already understanding, or ever use as a search term to find this article.
The scope matters: This article is not about accents and styles, or formality registers; and it is also not about the English–Scots continuum (which is mostly mutually intelligible, or we would not sing "Auld Lang Syne" or ever read Robert Burns); nor is it inclusive of English-based creoles and pidgins.  It's about English, and dialects (somewhat but not excessively broadly construed) within it.  There are a few things on the list that should be removed, though. (E.g., Bootling is not a dialect, but an artificial cant.  And if Scots is in there still, then it should also be removed.)
Anyway, please remember that WP is not "SpecialistPedia".  The term dialect has a generally understood dominant meaning in English, that is encompassed by this article, and it really doesn't matter that various professional linguists would use it subtly differently (the fact is that they would not all agree on what those difference are in the first place).  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  00:18, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Follow-up discussion 

message: A discussion is taking place to address the redirect :Englishes. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 December 1#Englishes until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  Soumya-8974 (he) talk contribs subpages 09:51, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Englishes" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: Africa and Asia should come first. There is no reason to prioritize white majority countries just because they spoke english earlier than other countries. Jiaminglimjm (talk) 10:38, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I respectfully disagree. The most diverse area of English (UK being in Europe, and obviously being the origin) should come first, this is prevalent in the main paragraph explaining the three main areas of English.Halbared (talk) 11:05, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Core anglosphere being more diverse in englishes is debatable; they are only more well-researched. English is a much larger phenomenon than its origin. Just Indian English itself is already incredibly diverse and is arguably the group of Englishes with the most speakers in the world. Not to mention the many, many other varieties like Nigerian Pidgin and Singlish which also have huge numbers of speakers and are immensely complex linguistically. Many of them are dialect continuums of english but still no less important and no less diverse than the "White People's English". –Jiaminglimjm (talk) 16:13, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: It's debatable in some places, but it's incontrovertible in England, the dialect can change as soon as one moves a few miles from an origin point. The variation in that original core of 60 million (whole of UK) is the point from which other forms should be distinguished.Halbared (talk) 18:20, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

text: So we should discriminate against countries where English was first spoken because they have white majorities? BilCat (talk) 15:42, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Alphabetical order is not discrimination. I argue that where English is first spoken is not a good indicator of what English is like in today's world. –Jiaminglimjm (talk) 16:17, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: That isn't how you framed your initial arguments. Anyway, presenting the continents in historical order is a valid method, and not discriminatory at all. I think it works best, as Halbared pointed out. BilCat (talk) 16:22, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Continents should be ordered alphabetically 

message: Appalachia, particularly Central Appalachia, isn't mentioned. or if it is, I've missed it. Mari Adkins 20:01, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: It is mentioned but it can be hard to see on the map of the US. The article is Appalachian English. Erinius (talk) 20:20, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  please add 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 04:18, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: List of dialects of English →  – This is an important encyclopedic topic, and although a lot of the page is currently structured in the form of a list, this is really a topic which deserves to be treated as a standalone article rather than just a list. And the "overview" section provides an introduction to that. And even if it is just a list, WP:NCLIST doesn't mandate the use of "List of...", it merely describes it as . Finally, there's a strong WP:CONSISTENCY argument. I've had a look through similar pages relating to other major languages, and I so far haven't found any that title the page on dialects as "List of ...". See for example German dialects, Spanish dialects and varieties, Dialects of Polish, Varieties of French etc. Note that I boldly moved this yesterday, following a request by  at WP:RM/TR, but the move was reverted by  so here we are. I also prefer "Dialects of English" over "English dialects", so it's clear that we're referring to the language, not the country of England, a point raised by  at the RM/TR discussion.  — Amakuru (talk) 11:34, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

text: None of the other articles you cited are as list-y as this one is. Erinius (talk) 12:09, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: True, but that raises an even bigger question. Why would we devote proper articles to the dialects of all the other languages, but not to our own, the home language of this wiki? Even if this page currently looks like a list, I would see this as an aspirational move request... let's build out the page that should exist and doesn't. There's a lot of content at sub-articles like American English, Manchester dialect, and a whole myriad of other pages, which could easily be rendered as a WP:SUMMARYSTYLE and useful article of the sort seen at Varieties of French. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 12:19, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Instead of moving this list, why don't you just create an article (or a draft article) for English dialects or Varieties of English. Rreagan007 (talk) 17:47, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Rreagan0007. Both a prose article and a list are encyclopaedic and there is space for both, so keep this list as a list and write a prose article to accompany it. Thryduulf (talk) 09:57, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

text: Relisting comment: Make a separate article or rewrite this list article? — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 18:54, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 14 October 2022