Talk:European Union roaming regulations

message: Look at User_talk:Dima1#Eurotariff
CrZTgR (talk) 15:29, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eurotariff table 

message: Someone wrote that the 2009-05-06 rates will be used from 2009-07-01 and on, so I filled in those rates. But what happens with the ISK/EUR rate? The ECB is no longer publishing rates for the ISK. Which rate will be used for determining the value of the ISK with regard to this regulation? Will they use the latest rate posted (290 ISK/EUR posted on 2008-12-09) or will they use a different rate? (212.247.11.156 (talk) 19:30, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Exchange rates 

message: I will remove local prices for Internet that I have calculated, because they don't conсern final subscribers. Moreover, prices for internet provided by one career to another are not shown in the local currencies of that country. So no need to add VAT (and transfer it to all other currencies) to regulated internet price cause it shows nothing. --Dima1 (talk) 07:46, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Internet 

message: The regulation can be found here: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2007:171:0032:0032:EN:PDF
It contains no mention about the euro / megabyte cap on data roaming. What document contains that info? --Sigmundur (talk) 12:50, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regulation (EC) No 717/2007 

message: This article states that the exchange rates used should be the exchange rates posted by the ECB on certain dates. This appears to be wrong; it seems that the rates posted in the Official Journal of the European Union on the specified dates should be used instead. These rates are different from the ECB rates. For example, compare the 2011 Journal rates with the ECB ones. For example, the rate for SEK is 8.8932 in the Journal but 8.8890 in the ECB listing. It seems that the Journal might be using the ECB rates from the previous day. This means that the Journal rate allows an outgoing per-minute price of 3.89 crowns whereas the ECB rate does not. Telia uses 3.89 crowns for EU countries (go to  and select "Danmark" in the drop-down list), so 3.89 crowns must be allowed. (212.247.11.156 (talk) 11:56, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: For example, check  page 4 under "Charges in currencies other than the Euro" or . (212.247.11.156 (talk) 12:01, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Telia Sweden or any other operator's web-site is not relevant source of information. I have put sources that prices for non-eurozone countries for 2011-2012 are calculated based on 1 June 2011 exchange rates, for 2010-2011 based on 1 June 2010 exchange rates. --Dima1 (talk) 12:28, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

text:  This is an old source of information from 2008. The rules, regarding dates from where exchange rates are taken, have changed since then. --Dima1 (talk) 12:32, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Seems you were right. Exchange rates are taken from EU Journal published one month before rules apply. But EU Journal publish ECB exhange rates for the day that preceeded the day of publication. I'll try to correct this error in the article later today.--Dima1 (talk) 12:57, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

text:  . --Dima1 (talk) 13:54, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong exchange rates 

message: I have just made some edits to the "General information" section. I have mainly made two kinds of changes:
* Future tense changed into past tense (e.g. "Something will happen in 2009" -> "Something happened in 2009"). Obviously, the text was written in the past and not updated to past tense when the things happened.
* Removal of unimportant information. Some of the text was a repetition of the price caps in the tables shown below. I thought that this information was uninteresting to have in the "General information" section, and besides it was already available elsewhere in the article.
I'm not currently happy with the section, though. It is still too long and too messy. (Stefan2 (talk) 09:52, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  "General information" section 

message: Why does Telecommunications in the European Union redirect here? This is not the only article on EU telecommunications on Wikipedia, nor even the most important, and in particular at least one reference to 2002/21/EC, which doesn't have anything to do with roaming charges. I don't know how to mess around with redirects, but there should either be an actual article there that deals with the history of EU telecoms regulation, or else it should point to Telecoms Package, which is at least a comprehensive overview.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.71.103.242 (talk) 18:02, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Redirects 

message: This article quotes regulated wholesale rates, I have several questions about these:
* I don't see what is included with the rate for outbound calls. Does this include termination on the destination network? Or are calls routed from the visited network to the home network which has to buy termination from the destination network?
* What does an inbound call cost?
* Which operators do these rates apply to? Do they apply to the roaming agreement between the home network and the visited network? Or do they apply to resale agreements between the home network and resellers? Or do they apply to alternative roaming providers which have to compete with the home network?
-- 62.156.55.33 (talk) 22:03, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wholesale rates 

message: I just took a look at the EU regulation because I wanted to find the regulated wholesale rates for inbound calls - and I think I found them. They are not easy to find. The regulation states:
"1. The average wholesale charge that the operator of a visited
network may levy from the operator of a roaming customer's home
network for the provision of a regulated roaming call originating on
that visited network, inclusive inter alia of origination, transit and termination costs, shall not exceed EUR 0,30 per minute.
2. The average wholesale charge referred to in paragraph 1 shall
apply between any pair of operators and shall be calculated over a
twelve-month period or any such shorter period as may remain before
the end of the period of application of a maximum average wholesale
charge as provided for in this paragraph or the expiry of this Regulation.
The maximum average wholesale charge shall decrease to EUR 0,28
and EUR 0,26, on 30 August 2008 and on 1 July 2009 respectively and
shall further decrease to EUR 0,22 and EUR 0,18, on 1 July 2010 and
on 1 July 2011 respectively.
3. The average wholesale charge referred to in paragraph 1 shall be
calculated by dividing the total wholesale roaming revenue received by
the total number of wholesale roaming minutes sold for the provision of
wholesale roaming calls within the Community by the relevant operator
over the relevant period. The operator of the visited network shall be
permitted to make a distinction between peak and off-peak charges.
However, with effect from 1 July 2009, the average wholesale charge
referred to in paragraph 1 shall be calculated by dividing the total
wholesale roaming revenue received by the total number of wholesale
roaming minutes actually used for the provision of wholesale roaming
calls within the Community by the relevant operator over the relevant
period, aggregated on a per second basis adjusted to take account of the
possibility for the operator of the visited network to apply an initial
minimum charging period not exceeding 30 seconds."
This means:
1. The price that is given in paragraph 1 does only apply to outbound calls. ("originating on
that visited network")
2. Termination of an outbound call on the called party's network is included. ("inclusive inter alia of origination, transit and termination costs")
3. The two network operators can agree on a wholesale tariff where some calls (e.g. at peak hours) are more expensive than the price cap allows. However, some calls have to be cheaper in exchange for that; If the annual wholesale bill turns out to be more expensive than allowed by the price cap, then the home network only has to pay the maximum tariff. For example: The maximum wholesale rate is €0.30/min. The two networks agree that peak-time calls shall be charged at €0.40/min and off-peak calls shall cost €0.20/min. Now if the customers generate 500,000 min of off-peak calls plus 100,000 min of peak-time calls, the annual wholesale bill would amount to €140,000. The permitted maximum in this case would be (500,000+100,000)*€0.30 = €180,000. So the home network only has to pay €140,000 because €140,000 is below the permitted maximum. Now let's assume it's the other way round: 100,000 off-peak minutes and 500,000 peak minutes. That makes €220,000. And that is above the permitted maximum of €0.30/min*600,000min=€180,000. In the latter case, the home network only has to pay the €180,000. (Paragraph 3)
4. Charging for inbound calls on the wholesale level is allowed (it isn't prohibited explicity, so it's allowed); However, these fees are counted towards the price cap that applies to outbound calls ("dividing the total wholesale roaming revenue received by
the total number of wholesale roaming minutes sold" includes the wholesale fees of all calls), so the visited network has to reduce their outbound charges if they want to charge for inbound calls, i. e. if they charge €50,000 for inbound calls, the fees for outbound calls have to be at least €50,000 below the limit. In other words, this means that the visited network cannot charge for inbound calls; They can only offer a discount on outbound calls that may depend on the ratio of outbound vs. inbound calls - i.e. home networks that create a lot of inbound calls get no discount (e.g. mobilkom Austria) and home networks that have only few inbound calls get a higher discount (e.g. Hutchison 3G Austria). For this reason, I think that we should quote the wholesale rate for inbound calls at 0 ct/min.
-- 2001:A60:18EE:1100:3C10:5B3:23DD:D46 (talk) 23:00, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I was wrong, there is nothing to read between the lines of the regulation. After some googling, I found an OECD document which says that wholesale inbound rates are the same as domestic termination rates. I have updated the article accordingly. -- 2001:A60:18EE:1100:5859:4759:18F2:2B19 (talk) 22:11, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inbound call wholesale rates 

message: Took me a little while to find them, so lets put them here until they can be worked into the article:
* 
* 
—Sladen (talk) 11:22, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The Commission only proposes laws, it does not make them. They need to approved by both the Council and Parliament. 15 December 2015 will only happen if the Council approve the proposed law without amendment which they appear unlikely to do. There's no EU law yet just a proposal. — Blue-Haired Lawyer t 22:22, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  15 December 2015 roaming deadline 

message: The page already lists the new retail rates for roaming. The new wholesale roaming rates are missing. Why?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.97.98.1 (talk) 14:55, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  New wholesale rates 

message: There seems to be a widespread misconception that these regulations implement "roam like at home" service. (the EU roaming-tariffs website uses this phrase)   This is not the case.
The issue is what is the "domestic price" which the regulations use as their baseline.   Most people would think that the "domestic price" is the price that they would pay for an equivalent length domestic call.  This is not how "domestic price" is interpreted by suppliers or the regulator, at least the UK regulator, Ofcom.  
The vast majority of users pay for domestic calls as part of a "bundle" or "inclusive minutes", for example 300 minutes per month included in the monthly rental rate.   This means that when "at home" calls up to this limit do not incur an additional charge.   There is a separate, and usually quite- to very- high rate for "out of bundle" calls.   Most people never pay this rate, or think about it, because they stay within their bundle limit.   Real "roam like at home" would take the time for roaming calls from the user's monthly limit, just like domestic calls.   This is not what happens / will happen after June 2017.   What happens / will happen is that roaming calls are, and will be charged at the "out of bundle" rate, even if the user has plenty of "inclusive minutes" left.
   
As an example, the current O2 out-of-bundle rate is 45 pence sterling per minute for domestic calls.   The only change that will be implemented in June 2017 is that the additional roaming charge, currently 5 euro cents per minute (on top of 45 pence sterling) will reduce to 0 euro cents.   The 45 pence per minute charge, which is unregulated, will remain.  Because these rates are rarely used (people stay within their "inclusive minutes"), they have not been brought down by competition and remain very high.   There is also nothing in the regulations to stop the suppliers increasing these rates.
Users who use their phone "like at home" while roaming will find that their bill is very far from being "like at home".  By the way, this interpretation of the regulations has been verified by Ofcom.
87.113.18.63 (talk) 17:06, 14 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  The regulations do NOT implement real "roam like at home" 

message: I've just reverted Wikidea's move to Roaming Regulation 2012. I cannot find any mention of this supposed "proper" name that isn't an obvious mirror of Wikipedia, and moreover, it's nnot even as accurate as the previous title as a description: the article deals with multiple regulations from the very first one to the most recent, and neither the first nor the most recent was that of 2012. - Estoy Aquí (talk) 23:25, 21 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reverted move