Talk:Knuckles the Echidna/Archive 1

message: This article is ridiculously long. Is all of this necessary?
:Yes, yes it is. Listen, I love SomethingAwful as much as the next person. Hell, I was delighted when I saw it as the ALoD. Now, I'm not into sonic or any of that junk, but just because Something Awful points out that it's long doesn't mean it should be lengthended (spelling?). I always go to SA, but hate the people that take their words as gospel. If it's informative on the subject, leave it as it is. If theres useless amounts of info on it, then yes, shortening it would be a good idea.EAB 05:31, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree... the bigger issue is those articles needing to be lengthened. The correct balance between article length and importance can be reached without destroying already-culminated knowledge, regardless of how unimportant some believe that knowledge is. 24.16.53.132 21:53, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a retardedly long article and seems to be useful to only a handful of people. This article is nearly as long as Tom Hanks and unlike Hanks, Knuckles is only a minor character and not one of the most important actors of a generation. Just saying. EAB and others, don't argue that the other articles need to be longer, because the truth of the matter is, it looks really lame and pathetic in comparison. - Stick Fig 15:31, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Minor character?  I think not.  Knuckles appears in pretty much every Sonic game as one of the mainstays of the series.  Why don't you go pick on Sonic article or something?GrandMasterGalvatron 16:59, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a video game character. I don't care how many games Knuckles has been in, he doesn't have clout outside the circle of Sonic fans. When he has as much name recognition among the general populace as Tom Hanks, George Bush, or heck, Sonic, he can have an article this huge. I'm going to edit this article down further and kill the fancruft. - Stick Fig 01:39, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: WHY DON'T YOU PEOPLE BITCH ABOUT SONIC'S ARTICLE?!!GrandMasterGalvatron 14:11, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Stop taking this personally. It's for your own good. - Stick Fig 15:38, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not taking it personally...I just don't get it!GrandMasterGalvatron 16:13, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Knuckles the Echidna is a relatively minor character for the amount of backstory he has on this page. In mainstream popular culture, he's remembered for Sonic 3 and Sonic and Knuckles and that's about it. Wikipedia is not a place to give every little detail about a topic, but enough for a layman to pick up on. Does a layman really need to know about every romantic relationship a cartoon echidna has ever had, or the entire plotline to a comic series based on him? It says right in your profile that you're a longtime fan of the Sonic series. Therefore, you're biased towards Knuckles. I'm not biased one way or the other, and have been able to fix up pages like Fred Durst according to Wikipedia's NPOV policy. Let me help you make this a good article. - Stick Fig 17:55, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I might mention that Stewie Griffin's article seems to be twice as long.  The cartoon point is moot.  At the rate you guys are going, why don't you just put the article up for deletion?GrandMasterGalvatron 19:59, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Is it just me, or did Knuckles' whole article dissaper?  Emerald__Storm 20:01, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Article length

message: It is a fair assumtpion that the "sk.Amn" file does indeed refer to Super Knuckles.  The file for SuperSonic is called "ss.amn" and the one for Super tails is called "st.anm"  Since we know that "ss" can't mean anything other than "Super Sonic" then it's just as well that the "sk" and "st" can't possibly mean anything else, especially since both files are what enable the two's super animations in the first place.  If you decompress Super Sonic's .dff file "ss.dff" you will see that it contains SuperSonic's aura thing and the globes for Super Tails and Super Knuckles which are called "chrball".  Also, Super Sonic's texture file "ss.txd" holds the texture for the balls which is called "ef_chbl_y.dds" (effect_characterball_yellow).  Surely if the s in "sk.amn" meant sheild then those two files would reflect it.  Also, if they were meant to be called anything other and "Super" then the filenames would reflect it. Grandmastergalvatron 05:56, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Super Knuckles in Sonic Heroes 

message: What does everyone think to this section?  Could it be merged with another area of the article or simply removed, since there's an appropriate article for Sonic & Knuckles.  Also, it's not technically a secret, considering "Knuckles the Echidna in Sonic the Hedgehog 2" is mentioned in the S&K instruction manual.  Thoughts?  --L T Dangerous 03:32, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Secret Appearance

message: How come there are no links to fan sites? I own a Knuckles fan site. I'd like to add a link. ~ Timper
:Wikipedia is not a link exchange.  Please respect it. Wizardry Dragon 00:03, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If your fansite is a great source of information on Knuckles, then, by all means, go ahead.  If it's a fledgeling product, or a mess, or is not a good website, don't even bother.  --Luigifan 04:38, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fan Sites 

message: As much as I hate removing something that a lot of people seem to have added to, I'd like to remove the "Quotes" section, as it is very useless.
Most of the quotes fail to provide any insight to his character or history. A lot are hardly quotes at all; I dare someone to give me a valid reason that "Shaa!" and "Uh-no!" are actually worthwhile quotes.
On top of that, none of the other sonic characters (nor most videogame chars that I've seen) have such sections, as videogame characters of their time (before every game had a script) didn't have much dialogue.
So - I'm going to remove it. Feel free to debate.
SonOfNothing 23:25, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quotes 

message: Could somebody please tell me how knuckles dies and comes back to life? I have read his page, the funeral ( Knuckles- the afterlife) But he is alive and well in later issues. please explain. Thank you. Dalek
Sonic the Hedgehog #124 has a back-story on Knuckles' decision to come back to life.  Issue #125 is when he makes his actual re-entrance, but he isn't quite quick enough to save Sonic from sacrificing himself. Knuckles lost the ability to fly because of the process, a side-effect which was in many ways unnecessary and tended to waste everything Archie and Sega had done up to that point developing his character.  (Note: he may have since regained his flying ability, however I am not too sure because I can no longer afford to keep getting the comics any more.) --DavidHOzAu 05:33, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: knuckles comics

message: While the article states that Knuckles can glide by "trapping air under his dreadlocks", is there any factual basis for an Echidna's ability to glide? Perhaps they have skin flaps like a flying squirrel? Or is it just a game mechanic, such as Sonic's speed?68.198.120.115
Yes it's a game mechanic...A spikey ant eater wouldn't be able to actually fly...EVER.--86.133.43.29 11:14, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Gliding Ability

message: Sonic the Hedgehog has an article based on his Archie Comics chracter. I believe that Knux ought to have one as well. There is a lot of backstory in there, given that Knuckles is the only other main character who actually had an enduring series of his own. 
I think that this should be done (I would probably make a mess of it myself though). I am sure that others agree. - User:Sh@z@M
Even though I strongly dislike the Archie comics, it is an interesting proposal. TMNT Donatello 07:47, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archie Knuckles Article? 

message: Warning: i can´t speak english, if my gramatic is very unreadable, plese, i'm sorry!!!!
Hi, i'm user in the Spanish Wikipedia. Here, is illegal to use images "fair use", as the Knuckles images. What can i do ?
Contact me in "Usuario: Mr. X" in Wikipedia.es
I think your english is perfectly fine. the picture has been upgraded too.
:I reverted that update as the picture was of low quality.  Let's just wait for the JPN site update.GrandMasterGalvatron 17:52, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Knuckles Images 

message: It looks like we're going to count Knuckles' power up as a seperate unknown entity, so I'll probably need it's own paragraph.  However, Super Knuckles' description was written with the thought of the new power being his revival.  Counting it different would mean negating all of that info.  The thing is, the description as it stands is actually an accurate description of what Super Knuckles would be if used in 3D. (yes, he still is red)  With this in mind, should it stay or should it go. Grandmastergalvatron 14:10, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have now redone the entire section and left the Heroes issue open ended.  I will do the same for Tails Grandmastergalvatron 03:02, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Section Reorginization

message: The Concept Mobius link is broken.  Therefore, a new citation is needed or a mirror is needed.  I don't know what to do it about it but I'll leave it alone so that 50 people don't try to revert it at the same time.  --Robot Chicken 02:59, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Concept Mobius link broken 

message: Could someone with proficient knowledge of these continuities trim the sections as necessary?Grandmastergalvatron 00:57, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archie and Fleetway 

message: I can't believe I actually conformed to the will of these pathetic vandals.  Once the trimming of the Comic sections are done, this article will damn near be ready to be merged into some other article.
I've also removed as much "fancruft" (what a lame word) as I could, as well as speculatory statements.  I can't think of anything else to do to the poor thing.  I DARE someone to find a comprehensive, unbiased collection of data on Knuckles. Grandmastergalvatron 01:23, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. Actually, I've been wanting to do that for ages, but the couple times I tried editing this page I ended up getting effectively reverted a bit later. The article WAS way too long. If it takes SA pointing it out to get the article trimmed, so be it. --tjstrf 01:28, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You're welcome.  I must admit, it's calming to see my efforts appreciated ^^ Grandmastergalvatron 01:36, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Very much so, 220.233.85.90.  Defacing anything makes said person look like a common fool and an immature one at that. Grandmastergalvatron 17:23, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Oh, and don't forget, that someone was paid to create such details in the first place. Grandmastergalvatron 17:32, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trimming done...for now 

message: Trimming done? Are you serious? Have a look at portuguese version of the article - this is the maximum size it should be. Actually, in a perfect world it would be something like:
::Knuckles the Echidna is a fictional character in the Sonic the Hedgehog series of video games, television shows and comics. He is a red echidna, and has dreadlock-like spines.
(and not even in separate article!). Wikipedia is a general encyclopaedia, and not supposed to be a collection of information that would be interesting only for a few fans. Personality? Love life? Relations? Theme songs? Futurix 15:49, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You call that informative?!  Grandmastergalvatron 16:35, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is more then enough on the topic. You can also link to external websites that provide additional information. Futurix 16:41, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you really think that there is another website that will provide detailed, informative, and UNBIASED information on said subject?Grandmastergalvatron 17:14, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If there is no such website, then you are breaking Wikipedia rule: there should be no original research in the articles. If this is the case, then I suggest you to open Wikia wiki on this topic and move this material there. Futurix 17:42, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, WP:NOR does not include collecting information from other sources. There is no other single site with all this info, though there are plenty with bits and pieces of it. --tjstrf 17:45, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Link to the "bits and pieces" then. Futurix 17:59, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

text: What is the source for this limit? Futurix 16:44, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Common sense, personal experience, and WP:SIZE. --tjstrf 17:24, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My common sense and experience say 2 kb at most. As for WP:SIZE - it sets the technical and readability rules, it does not measure whether information is worthy of inclusion or not. Futurix 17:42, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Your common sense apparently ignores that there is more than 2 kb of information to be stated. If you can find specific sentences that you believe are useless, remove them. If you aren't going to proactively help, go whine somewhere else. --tjstrf 17:45, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This article is not your property or website - I have same right to be here as you are. And, I'll rephrase, most of this information is not encyclopaedic and has no place in Wikipedia. Futurix 17:59, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Then remove it. This article does not fall under any WP:NOT concerns, and the Sonic series is a notable one. --tjstrf 18:12, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  More trimming needed 

message: Why isn't there this much bitching about Sonic's page which is twice as long?GrandMasterGalvatron 13:25, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There is only one XD.  Yes I am. GrandMasterGalvatron 21:33, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The page length debate 

message: Super Knuckles changes to a pinkish color.
Here is a sprite sheet.Starmenclock 19:44, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, no he doesn't...I don't know how these edits slipped past me! XD  If you people haod paid attention to the text before you altered it, you'd notice that by canon, he does NOT change color.  We've even got an image to show that!  Super Knuckles is RED.  He is only pink in Archie canon.  That spritesheet doesn't prove jack because I could make one of a bunch of white Knuckles' and say he turns white.  I could do the same with other transformations.  The darkest color a character is in Super form is their base color.  Sonic's is yellow, Tails' is...whatever color he is, Knuckles' is red, and Metal's is gold.  This is FACT.  If Knuckles was meant to be pink, he'd have stayed that way, just like Sonic stayed yellow. GrandMasterGalvatron 21:32, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: He doesn't change colour, if by colour you mean hue. He simply glows. --tjstrf 22:13, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Now that I look at it, those sprites are fake anyway!  Super Modes didn't hover until 3d Games (earliest being Sonic the Fighters) and Knuckles doesn't shoot kai blasts. GrandMasterGalvatron 19:30, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

text: * They're not "fake" - they're just bad recolours ;) -- Wizardry Dragon (Talk to Me) (Support Neutrality on Wikipedia) 22:41, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Some of them are, but there are some fake ones in there ^^ GrandMasterGalvatron 20:15, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I thought that super Knuckles was red and glowed, and hyper Knuckles was pink. -- Emerald__Storm 19:44, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It would make sense, but as he has the same color effect in both forms, it can only be said that they look the same.GrandMasterGalvatron 13:59, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Super Knuckes - who wrote doesn't change color? 

message: This page has been protected for long enough, and hopefully the vandalism has died down, I think this page should be requested for unprotection. I would request unprotection right now, but I'd rather have some opinions from other users on this first before I do so. UnDeRsCoRe 01:07, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, we're still gonna have those godawful page length debates but other than that I suppose so GrandMasterGalvatron 18:47, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Unprotection?

message: needs to be cleaned up. I think, rather than break down Knuckles' role in every single installation of the series, an easier format along these lines should be followed:
"GAME"
playable/non-playable status
for a summary of the particular installation, the link can be followed. and, given the amount of detail in this wiki, I can't imagine the game wikis being any less detailed. so no need to overinundate.
thanks. Spankmecold 22:07, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  video game appearance section 

message: Ok.  I just fixed up the apperance section and some toher stuff.  I'm willing to completely reword this article to be a good one but what else needs to be done?  If you're going to use the "shorten" argument, be specific.  Give specific examples of what you consider fancruft and why.  Just saying shorten it doesn't help at all. GrandMasterGalvatron 17:29, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you did a great job by fixing the appearence stuff, it was really redundant. I personally couldn't care less about the length of this article (there are 100's of articles that are longer) but if this is going to be GA, I guess someone should re word and shorten the personality section. It details all of his personalities in all of the continuities but hasn't anyone noticed that he has practically the same personality in ALL CONTINUITIES. Merge it all into one short paragraph. If you want to that is, you don't have to. UnDeRsCoRe 21:09, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was thinking of doing that.  I'll be sure to do it ^^ GrandMasterGalvatron 21:17, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks! UnDeRsCoRe 21:29, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Making a Good Article