Talk:The infernal names

message: I have edited the errors portion of the article and added references to the best of my abilities, however most of my faculties lie with the sciences, not the arts so I am limited in accreditation. - Akira1080  —Preceding comment was added at 06:17, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Do we really need two paragraphs of Norse Mythology (confusingly sandwiching the rest of the huge paragraph) to describe the error?  At least one of these looks unsourced and completely irrelevant. WillieBlues (talk) 07:43, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

text: Where'd you get this, a Jack Chick tract? WillieBlues (talk) 07:43, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Historical Blah Blah 

message: "Clark Renato"?  Really?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.158.132.167 (talk) 00:59, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Eh? What's this all about?  Did somebody put a fake name ("Clark Renato") in the list or something?  If so, it's gone now. WillieBlues (talk) 17:17, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Clark Renato" 

message: There was a lot of damage to this page. I removed some erroneous entries, re-added a number of missing names, fixed a few links, and added some descriptions. All names were cross-referenced with a 2005 Avon Books printing of The Satanic Bible by Anton Szandor Lavey. The list is definitive again with the exception of missing a few descriptions.
Just for anyone wondering, this is a page for the infernal names as recorded by Anton Lavey in The Satanic Bible for LaVeyan_Satanism. It is *not* simply a repository of aliases and nick names for the Devil. If it's not in the Satanic Bible it doesn't belong here.
Latcarf (talk) 16:03, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Damage Repaired 

message: So there are so many errors, it is as if someone was attempting to be a "scholar" but instead of actually doing research and citing sources, someone just wrote what they "believed" the names came from without any linguistic or scholarly knowledge whatsoever. 
Case in point:  Dracula - Romanian name for son of the devil, or dragon, which would also denote a "devilish" name, Romanian isn't too clear on which meaning, if not both, is correct.  
Are you kidding me? If someone had done the slightest amount of research, they would know Dracul was a title for those part of the Order of the Dragon and was meant to bestow status as a defender of the catholic faith under an Order of chivalry. There was nothing "devilish" about it. This entire page is frivolous Mysticalresearch (talk) 00:43, 16 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Your comments not withstanding, this page is the list of Infernal Names as provided by Anton Lavey in The Satanic Bible. Regardless of the "meanings" being right or wrong in your eyes, the fact cannot be refuted that this is what's in the The Satanic Bible. Satanism is a recognized religion and The Satanic Bible is the primary codification of it. This page reflects the infernal names (descriptions, spelling, and all) as printed in The Satanic Bible. Ceadda Agon (talk) 01:32, 16 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  This quotation "Romanian isn't too clear on which meaning, if not both, is correct." has nothing to do with "faith" but states a misrepresentation and inaccuracy of facts. If you are saying that all these are descriptions coming directly from LaVeyan Satanic literature, then cite the sources and page numbers to each and every name/description. Instead, these descriptions state their meanings come directly from Hebrew, Greek, Romanian, etc. Thus rendering your argument fallacious.  Mysticalresearch (talk) 18:27, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, all of the names and descriptions come from The Satanic Bible verbatim. There is (and has been for quite some time) a citation at the bottom of the article. There is no need nor reason to cite references for each name since the names are listed in The Satanic Bible in the same manner as they are on this page. I just added another reference in the introduction to clarify that this list comes directly from the text of The Satanic Bible. The list of Infernal Names are repeated twice in the Satanic Bible. First (with descriptions) on pages 58-60, then again (without descriptions) on pages 145-146.  Ceadda Agon (talk) 20:24, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Errors in name meanings

message: Two maintenance templates from January 2017 have been removed:
# "Cleanup-reorganise" maintenance template removed after page was fixed to conform to Wikipedia layout standards.
# "One source" maintenance template removed because this page is a list pulled directly from one text; The Satanic Bible. There will only ever be the one source and this is reinforced by the "LaVeyan Satanism box" on the page.
Ceadda Agon (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 14:25, 29 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of Maintenance Templates 2017-Jul 

message: Just for anyone wondering, this is a page for the infernal names as recorded by Anton Lavey in The Satanic Bible for Satanism. It is *not* simply a repository of aliases and nick names for the Devil. If it's not in the Satanic Bible it doesn't belong here.
User:Latcarf (talk) 04:09, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Attention Editors! 

message: It's unlikely that the list of names here need be edited. This list is taken from a published, internationally recognized source (The Satanic Bible) and is referenced in other works on the subject of Satanism as well. The list, as it stands, is a matter of public record so the names contained within and the descriptions thereof do not need editing unless there is a glaring error in copy. The list is not a collection of demon names, aliases for the Devil or repository of things you or others do or do not like. Exceptional cases where editing is warranted is to provide links to other Wikipedia content, fix typographical errors, or repair vandalism.
Latcarf (talk) 15:19, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Editing the list of names 

message: Yes, The Satanic Bible is notable because it's given in-depth coverage in reliable sources independent of the subject.
This article only cites the Satanic Bible.  Notability is not inherited.  This seems like an offshoot (and/or WP:POVFORK) of either the The Satanic Bible or the Classification of demons articles.  Given the right formatting, it could be squeezed into either of those articles.
Are there any sources that discuss the Infernal Names, especially outside of the context of the Satanic Bible in general?  Ian.thomson (talk) 18:08, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is this really notable? 

message: As for the notability of the Infernal Names, I think there are enough discussions in other works to establish both notability and that this page is not an offshoot nor a point-of-view. Although some of the included names are also demon names, the list is not within the realm of demonology.
In my understanding, The Satanic Bible coined the term "Infernal Names" and established the master list (misspelling or inaccuracies notwithstanding). Below are a few sources mentioning The infernal names and I'd imagine there are still others out there. It seems reasonable to me that the page stands on its own as a referential guide to what The Infernal Names are if encountered outside of The Satanic Bible. They are, after all, a component of LaVeyan Satanism and are typically used in ritual, so a ready reference serves the laity well.
* The Satanic Rituals mentions "calling of suitable Infernal Names" in the ritual Die Elektrischen Vorspiele on page 115.
* The Satanic Scriptures mentions the 'Infernal Names' in the Satanic Wedding ritual on page 234 and on a following page (236) lists a subset of the names. Specifically listed are those names "which are diabolical figures related to lust and sexuality." They are also mentioned in the Satanic Funeral Rite on page 256 of the same book with a subset on the following page (257) chosen for their "association with mythology of death or the Underworld."
* The Secret Life of a Satanist, in chapter 7: Court of the Crimson King, the Infernal Names are mentioned on page 80 and the text also includes a subset of the names from The Satanic Bible.
* The Satanic Warlock has a section entitled "Infernal Names" on page 41 and lists some of the Infernal Names along with others. The section is in the context of choosing a Satanic name for oneself.
===== References ===== 
User:Latcarf (talk) 02:30, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Certainly notable. 

message: User:Latcarf (talk) 02:30, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: I'm not going to touch the Article itself on my own, and I honestly did not read Satanism, but I'd like to suggest adding Leviathan as it seems to belong and fit just well into the list, relying on 
Source 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviathan#Satanic_Bible
Source 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviathan#Christianity
Source 3: (german) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviathan_(Mythologie)#Christliches_Mittelalter
: Appreciation offered for your suggesting this here on the talk page rather than simply editing the article for inclusion. There are two compelling reasons not to include Leviathan in the list of Infernal Names:
* The list of Infernal Names is taken directly from The Satanic Bible (listed in two places in that book) and is referenced in other Church of Satan books on Satanism. The list, as written in the text of The Satanic Bible, does not include Leviathan.
* Leviathan is actually one of the Four Crown Princes of Hell in The Satanic Bible and is therefore not part of the Infernal Names just as the other princes: Belial, Lucifer, and Satan are not. The Leviathan article mentions its inclusion as a Crown Prince in The Satanic Bible at the bottom of that article.
Latcarf (talk) 15:07, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Suggestions

message: Kali And shiva are not evil, they are the Destroyers of evil and protectors of justice and the good! So please remove those two from the list! Also shiva is known as The lord of mercy and peace, and kali is his wife parvati, they're not evil or destructive. Please remove the names of these two and the Asian gods of death! Yama is the god of justice and death so he shouldn't be included in this list!
Rana Asuthosh (talk) 06:06, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Mistakes You Made" 

message: Hi Rana Asuthosh! Thanks for becoming a Wikipedia editor and starting a discussion on this talk page.
I (personally, me) have made no mistakes. The Infernal Names page is taken from The Satanic Bible itself. As mentioned in the Certainly Notable section above:
[...] The Satanic Bible coined the term "Infernal Names" and established the master list (misspelling or inaccuracies notwithstanding).
So, issues that you have with the content of The Infernal Names page are not with the page itself but instead with the text (as written) of The Satanic Bible.
Let's look at this a different way:
Suppose (for argument's sake) you believe that Mickey Mouse is a person. But... Daksha wrote a book that says she believes Mickey Mouse is a dog. Later, Karishma comes along and creates a Wikipedia page about the book that Daksha wrote. She includes some quotes directly from the book and one of them is about Mickey Mouse being a dog.
One day Rana sees the Wikipedia page that Karishma created about Daksha's book and gets angry because it has a quote that says Mickey Mouse is a dog! Well, Rana decides to edit the page because Rana believes it's wrong. Rana knows in Rana's heart of hearts that Mickey Mouse is a person. So, Rana changes the quote and removes the part about Mickey Mouse being a dog.
Then, some person edits the page and puts the quote back! Well, that makes Rana even more angry and so goes to the talk page to tell the person that they made a mistake and Mickey Mouse is not what they said. Then, Rana writes about all the things that Rana believes with the expectation that the Wikipedia page about Daksha's book be changed to fit those beliefs. Of course, this Wikipedia page is not about Rana's beliefs, it is about Daksha's book!
Bringing this back to the case in point:
The Infernal Names Wikipedia page is about part of the The Satanic Bible. It is not about your beliefs, my beliefs, or anyone else's beliefs. It is content directly quoted from The Satanic Bible, a (well known) book about Satanism. It has nothing to do with good and evil, it has only to do with a list of names that may or may not be used in Satanic ritual by Satanists. If you have any questions about the content being correctly quoted, please acquire a copy of The Satanic Bible and read it. The references to the relevant pages in that book are provided in on The Infernal Names Wikipedia page.
It's nice that we can all believe what we will. I'm happy that you have taken it upon yourself to create a Wikipedia account and open up a discussion about your beliefs. This talk page, and the The Infernal Names Wikipedia page itself, are not the places to discuss your beliefs and detail your expectation that people change what someone wrote in a book over 50 years ago to fit with your beliefs. Please use your own Wikipedia user page to write about that.
Thanks for becoming a Wikipedia editor and starting a discussion on this talk page.
Latcarf (talk) 15:57, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mistakes?