Talk:Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn

message: I'll just list my comments and questions here as I am copyediting.
*Why are there citations in the lead? Is this material not mentioned elsewhere in the article? Awadewit (talk) 23:03, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: *Erm. It was done through astral projection. Not all of them could do it, apparently. Synergy 00:13, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

text: *Yeah, I've been dropping my jaw at a number of these types of statements. The tradition of the tomb of Christian Rosenkreuz, and a Vault of Adepts is an allegory and was used for the first order or outer order. But Wescott claims some of it was from another person, and "continental adept" refers to a secret cheif. I'll have to find these mentions and work this out. Synergy 00:15, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyediting questions and comments 

message: This article lists Charles Williams as a member, but from my own understanding and his Wikipedia page, he was a member of the Fellowship of the Rosy Cross, and not the Order of the Golden Dawn.  Does someone have a reference for his being a member?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.105.70.254 (talk) 19:42, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Membership of Charles Williams 

message: I just removed some vandalism. Under the "list of known or alleged members" was included
"Manny and Bernard Swanhouse (1863-1912) (1863-1912); twins, suicide. Poets, writers, fans of chess" 
I need not mention that these people (named after characters from the TV program 'Black Books') are imaginary.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.158.54.102 (talk) 03:22, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism Removed. 

message: *To be courteous, I am making a note here that Alpha et Omega was added to the contemporary section. It seems to me that if Ordo Stella Matutina is in the contemporary section so should Alpha et Omega.  Or perhaps neither? Neither of them have an actual article but both of them are modern revivals of those sub-branches of the original Order. Inciardi23 (talk) 20:22, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, I think the proper Wikipedia term is link spam. I'm adding a ((subst:NoMoreLinks)) tag to the link section of the article. JMax555 (talk) 07:46, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you.  Is there a way to report persistent spammers? Inciardi23 (talk) 19:35, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: See: XLinkBot. You can set up an auto-correct function to deal with a particular unregistered user repeatedly linkspamming. JMax555 (talk) 09:45, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Re your initial point, I've put it back the way it was. The Alpha et Omega article is about an historical, not contemporary order. Any evidence of continuation or revival would have to come from a third-party source, claims on the website of the contemporary order cannot be used to establish that. I see the third-party link that supported the revival of Ordo Stella Matutina is dead, and will be removing it also if I cannot find another third-party ref to replace it. Yworo (talk) 00:12, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

text: P.S. I've also removed the Alpha et Omega from the "See also" section, as it is already linked from the article text. Our policy is that the "See also" section is only for links not already present in the article and encourages that these links be integrated into the text as becomes possible. Yworo (talk) 00:34, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contemporary Orders Section 

message: Shouldn't John William Brodie-Ennis be listed?
I don't think alleged members should be listed. If membership in an organization is unproven it should not be assumed. After all, anyone can say anything about anyone, true or untrue. I think it is irresponsible to include anyone here who is only alleged to be a member. At the very least a separate list should be made for alleged members. Currently there is no distinction.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elfonleft (talk • contribs) 01:59, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure breaking it into two lists makes sense, if only because the list of "alleged" members might be pretty short. How about in the list there is an asterisk denoting "alleged" and a REF link next to each "alleged" name, and the REF link is to a footnote citing the source of the allegation, because of course any "alleged" members still need a verifiable third-party citation. But unverifiable entries should be removed. The most prominent example is Bram Stoker. He never "outed" himself, and the Lodge he would have likely belonged to destroyed their membership rolls in the wake of the Horos scandal. But Stoker's name comes up in print as a possible member (King, I think) so it's verifiable under Wikipedia guidelines. JMax555 (talk) 11:31, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

text: I've removed Stoker's name from the list of members. The only two provided sources were both unreliable ('The Spear of Destiny' by Trevor Ravenscroft and 'The Templar Revelation' by Lynn Picknett) and R. A. Glibert says in the reliable book 'The Golden Dawn: Twilight Of The Magicians' that "Bram Stoker (despite popular claims to the contrary) was never a member" (p.81). AutobioGraphix (talk) 23:49, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Known or alleged members 

message: Did the "Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn" affect the Nazi ideology? I have read an article about it. Acoording to the article, there are connections. For instance, the Nazis believe that the center of the World is empty just like the members of HOGD. And there are other similarities too. In addition the name of Greek ultranationalist, Neo-Nazist party is Golden Dawn. Lamedumal (talk) 21:07, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: In order to add such a edit, you must be able to back it up with reliable, verifiable references. "I have read an article about it" is not enough. What article? Where did it appear? If it was only on the Internet, such references are usually not allowed by Wikipedia Guidlines. Anybody can write an "article" on a website or a blog that says anything, true or not. Also, where is there any documentation about the HOGD or any of its offshoots believing in the "Hollow Earth" ideology? So far, no one has been able to document any connection between the Chrysí Avgí political party and the HOGD, other than the coincidence of the name. Can you provide a link to this article? Thanks. JMax555 (talk) 20:42, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn and Nazi Ideology 

message: Whatever their worth and value to the subject and study of Thelema itself, surely it is misleading and frankly wrong to give the impression that these texts are at all representative of the system and philosophy of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. They may very well derive their substance therefrom; but the same could be said of Gerald Gardner's Book of Shadows, and I don't see that represented as a core text.
Nuttyskin (talk) 21:08, 4 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point. To be fair, the only the Cipher MS are strictly GD, Regardie and Crowley are offshoots. Gardner (your link is hilarious) filed the serial numbers off masonic degrees and threw in flesh and flagellation, so I don't think he counts. Fiddlersmouth (talk) 01:43, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Holy Books of Thelema 

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