Talk:Trans-Karakoram Tract

message: While the mention has been made that Pakistan has acceeded some 5000 sq km to China in 1963, but it does not mention why government of Pakistan deemed it necessary 
As no one gives up a portion of its self just for nothing . Can anyone (who knows the answer)please shed some light on it
Hussain 15:06, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I vaguely recall it might have been because China provided help in Pakistan's nuclear program, allowing them to build their own nuclear weapons. --Yuje 17:09, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I was wrong, after doing a bit more research on the details, the border came as the result of a compromise over a disputed area of sovereignty in the area. Pakistan got control over about 750 sq. mi of grazing lands and salt mines, access to all passes along the Karakoram range, two-thirds of the K-2 range, and three-quarters of the peak of K-2, including the summit. They probably agreed to split control of the area along the peak, the highest point, and the part that China got was the part north of the summit. Source is "Ramifications of the China-Pakistan Border Treaty", Pacific Affairs, Vol. 37, No. 3, 1964. The treaty is not final, but subject to final settlement once the whole Kashmir dispute is solved. Chinese help in the Pakistan nuclear program came much later. --Yuje 11:03, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Article does not mention why Pakistan acceded that Land 

message: The infobox and categorization suggests that the tract was administered by Pakistan before 1963.  There are sources that indicate that it was considered part of its territory by Hunza at various times before 1947, but are there sources for any actual occupation or administration by Pakistan between 1947 and 1963?  --Mhockey (talk) 11:21, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Administered by Pakistan? 

message: The Cis-Kuen Lun Tract is the same as the Trans-Karakoram Tract which I have edited extensively! The Times Atlas link which shows the depiction of the northern border of Kashmir in 1954. The map displays an enclosed area in northern Kashmir with the  caption "Undefined Frontier area". The area encompassing the  caption "Undefined Frontier area" is the Cis-Kuen Lun Tract. It is the same thing as the Trans-Karakoram Tract. The only difference is that the while the Trans-Karakoram Tract extends from the Karakoram Range northwards to the Kuen Lun Range, the Cis-Kuen Lun Tract extends from the Kuen Lun Range southwards towards the Karakoram range in central Kashmir. View the Times Atlas map of 1954 which depicts the northern border of Kashmir  on the watershed of the Kuen Lun Range on the Taghdumbash Pamir, Mariom Pamir, and the Raskam range or ridge and depicts the caption "Undefined Frontier area" below it extending  towards the Karakoram range and the Chhogori Peak K2 but not actually touching K2 as even the Times Atlas did not consider the K2 peak to be disputed. Nor did the Times Atlas consider the Shaksgam Valley disputed for that matter as can be seen in the 1954 map published by the Times Atlas.I am adding this because there is a concerted effort to restrict the Trans-Karakoram Tract to the Shaksgam Valley  which is clearly erroneous and not borne out by records! Even the official  map published  by the The Government of Pakistan  depicting the alignment of the northern Border of Kashmir in 1962,  depicted much of the Cis-Kuen Lun Tract as part of Kashmir and the alignment published by the Government of Pakistan predominantly was similar to and coincided with the portrayal of the northern Border of Kashmir in 1954 by  the Times Atlas which had predominantly depicted the Cis-Kuen Lun Tract as a part of Kashmir under the caption "Undefined Frontier area" though at places, the official position of the Government of Pakistan
  deviated from the position of the Times Atlas and the Government of Pakistan even depicted areas as part of Kashmir which were to the north of the border of Kashmir as published in 1954 by the Times Atlas! Also for an idea  of the extent of the Trans-Karakoram Tract or the Cis-Kuen Lun Tract, please view this map (C) from the Joe Schwartzberg's Historical Atlas of South Asia at DSAL in Chicagowith the caption, "The boundary of Kashmir with China as portrayed and proposed  by Britain prior to 1947". The geographical and territorial extent of the Trans-Karakoram Tract or the Cis-Kuen Lun Tract is more or less the territory enclosed   between the  northern most line and the innermost lines!  So there!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 106.51.27.235 (talk) 08:41, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: We are talking about a tract of land enclosed  by the Kuen Lun range in the north and the Karakoram Range in the south in the Highlands of Kashmir. It is just about the description of a tract of land and the northern and southern extremities of the aforesaid tract viz. the Karakoram range and the Kuen Lun range. There is no such thing as a legally recognised terminology to describe this tract of land in Kashmir bound in the north by the crests of the Kuen Lun range and in the south by the Karakoram Range.   I have quoted from the book "India's Borderland Disputes: China, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Nepal" By Anna Orton, wherein the author precisely and unequivocally  states,  It comprisesIndia's Borderland Disputes: China, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Nepal By Anna Orton, published by Epitome Books, 2010  "the tract of territory between the Karakoram and Kuen Lun Mountains". Anna Orton was writing a book on boundary disputes and the author  gives the  information that the Secretary to State for India in Whitehall was of the opinion that if the aforesaid tract of land was in Chinese control, it would be advantageous to the British empire in India. That was because in Central Asia, there were two foreign Powers who had expanded their empires extensively. The Russians had traversed the Ural Mountains Range and occupied Siberia and West Turkistan and the Chinese under the alien Manchu rulers had expanded the empire and traversed the Great Wall of China in the frontier region of Shaanxi in the the extreme far north eastern Frontier of China and occupied Central Asia and East Turkistan and there was an eminent danger of  East Turkistan  itself being annexed  by Russia. If that happened the Russian empire would border India at the Kuen Lun  range and there was an eminent  threat to the British Empire in British India itself.  The Chinese were a friendly power to the English since the Chinese were  least concerned about the alien tract of territory to the south of the Kuen Lun range since the Kuen Lun range  was the southern frontier of East Turkistan and they  were satisfied if they were able to maintain and sustain  their precarious hold over their imperialistic  colonial possession of East Turkistan and were not unceremoniously kicked out either by the East Turkistanis themselves or by the Russian Empire and they  maintained their border outpost at Bringja  to the north of the northern foothills of  Kuen Lun Range and were least concerned with the alien tract of Kashmiri land which was to the south of the Kuen Lun range as the Kuen Lun range is the frontier of East Turkistan  with India. We are talking about the extent of land which has been provisionally  ceded by the Government of Pakistan to the Chinese and the map uploaded  makes it obvious that even the Government of Pakistan which actually ceded the tract of territory regarded the northern border of Kashmir to be the Kuen Lun range. Besides the northern border of Kashmir as depicted by the Times Atlas in 1954 also portrays the northern border of Kashmir  on the crests and watershed of the Kuen Lun Range ( Peruse the Link Provided  to the Times Atlas map of Kashmir, 1954). The Times Atlas as recently as  in 1954 did not even consider  Shaksgam Valley a disputed territory and considered the Shaksgam Valley a part of Kashmir pure and simple.  Thus the official position of the Government of Pakistan prior to  1963 was that the northern border of Pakistan was on the Kuen Lun range and the territory ceded by the Government of Pakistan was not just allegedly restricted to the  Shaksgam Valley, which the Times Atlas in 1954 did not even consider a disputed territory and considered the Shaksgam Valley a part of Kashmir pure and simple,  but extended to the Kuen Lun range. Also for an idea  of the extent of the Trans-Karakoram Tract or the Cis-Kuen Lun Tract, a view the map (C) from the Joe Schwartzberg's Historical Atlas of South Asia at DSAL in Chicagowith the caption, "The boundary of Kashmir with China as portrayed and proposed  by Britain prior to 1947" would show that the geographical and territorial extent of the Trans-Karakoram Tract or the Cis-Kuen Lun Tract is more or less the territory enclosed   between the  northern most line and the innermost lines and was not just restricted to the Shaksgam Valley in central Kashmir  which the  Times Atlas in 1954 did not even consider a disputed territory and considered the Shaksgam Valley a part of Kashmir pure and simple!117.215.88.103 (talk) 13:37, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  The geographical and territorial extent of the Trans-Karakoram Tract or the Cis-Kuen Lun Tract 

message: May I suggest a change from the old "Kuen-lun" (variants: E.F.E.O. "Kouen-lun" and Wade-Giles "Kun-lun") transcription to the standard and up-to-date Pinyin form of "Kunlun" as in the Wikipedia article: Kunlun Mountains? Cheers, John Hill (talk) 09:47, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: A minor suggestion

message: It seems to me that this is a duplicate article. Am I mistaken, and is the Cis-Kuen Lun Tract something else than the Trans-Karakoram Tract? Doanri (talk) 14:57, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Cis-Kuen Lun Tract]] 

message: Most of the Pakistani (post independent and pre 1963) maps put Shaksgam valley in Pakistan. But the British India's frontiers, which Pakistan inherited, broadly followed the main Karakoram crest dividing the watersheds of the Indus River and the Tarim River, as proposed by Claude MacDonald in 1899. MacDonald's note was on the condition of relinquishment of Chinese claim on the suzerainty of Hunza. According to the Pak-China agreement 
1. On eastern side the border on the passes through the main Karakoram crest as proposed by MacDonald
2. On western side the border runs north of the Karakoram crest, which means a large chunk of area claimed by China was surrendered in favor of Pakistan. 
3. China dropped claims of suzerainty over Hunza.
So if one goes by the British's understanding of the border, Pakistan gained a lot in the agreement. But if Pakistani post-independent maps are considered, territory was lost. However, Pakistani claims were never realistic as Pakistan never controlled the areas north of Karakoram. Please correct me if I am wrong.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 39.41.140.156 (talk) 21:18, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia describes disputes. It does not engage in them. (See WP:IMPARTIAL) And this talk page is not the forum to debate the merits of the agreement. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 10:43, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Did Pakistan acced land to China? 

message: I check pages listed in :Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of :Trans-Karakoram Tract's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "area":
From Aksai Chin: 
From French America: 
From Malay Archipelago: 
From Xinjiang: 
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 11:59, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orphaned references in [[:Trans-Karakoram Tract]] 

message: Isn't adding the respective countries' translation languages in disputed area articles a violation of Wikipedia policy? For example, Aksai China, Jammu and Kashmir, Azad Kashmir., these articles have no translations of languages in them. Therefore, the translation languages in the introduction section of this article should be removed as well. 
Need your help here El_C. 27.97.236.117 (talk) 00:20, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it's up to editorial discretion, there's no relevant requirement about that. It's just  whatever editors decide through WP:CONSENSUS, also often involving WP:SILENTCONSENSUS. HTH. El_C 18:42, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

text: There is the WP:INDICSCRIPTS clause, but since both languages seem represented, and it isn't also being displayed on the infobox, etc., I'm not sure it makes sense to invoke it. But I leave that, too, to editorial discretion here rather than dictate as an enforcement step. Sorry, I am presuming we're discussing scripts rather than translations (into English), but I may have misread the OP. Thanks. El_C 18:49, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text:  The WP:INDICSCRIPTS policy applies to pages that are mainly part of the WikiProject India. This page is not one of those. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 19:08, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Is it? I'll take your word for it. I'm one of its three co-authors, so I really should know... But mwemory. El_C 19:40, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help 

message: to have a new article on this area that is not composed by the Indian government?
thanks,
Baden
187.225.28.205 (talk) 01:49, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is it possible?