Talk:Gush Shalom

message: Gush Shalom is a radical leftist movement, and its classification as a peace movement is highly disputed. Uri Avneri, the Gush Shalom leader and a former journalist, was among the first to meet and nagotiate with PLO leader Yasser Arafat. Although Gush Shalom earned itself respect in Europe, it is regarded by most Israelis as a pro-Palestinian movement who supports violence and terrorism against Israelis. The movement itself hasn't been involved in direct terrorism but did publish several articles praising Palestinian attacks on Israeli civilians.
This is a set of pretty serious charges that require some kind of external references, preferably primary sources.  The last sentence, especially, includes a serious charge that requires a primary source.  If it can't be backed up, it should be deleted.
: List of articles, with links, was added. MathKnight 14:04, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  There is no evidence presented to back up these rather grave allegations unless it is contained in the Hebrew links. If something credible and capable of being read by English-speakers isn't available the allegations should be deleted.194.165.173.5 03:07, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  Since Avneri operates in Hebrew-speaking society, it is natural he will write many articles in Hebrew.  MathKnight 21:05, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: (Untiled)

message: Guy, why do you insist on bringing the argument about how these communities should be called into this article about Gush-Shalom? "Settlements" is shorter, it is a well-known phrase to describe this controversial phenomenon, their legal status even in Israel is not settled, and it is by no means derogatory, as you can see in these communities' web-pages where they describe themselves as "settlements". Furthermore, none of them are "large towns", Ariel is less than 20,000, and most of them are a few houndred families each, at most. So could you please explain to me why you insist on reverting the concise description "settlements" to your phrase, in this article which is hardly the place for such arguments? And while you're at it, why don't you change the title of the original Israeli settlement article, if it's so important? --Doron 10:52, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I wish you all the luck with your crusade, but this article is hardly the place. "Settlement" is the term that is widely used (and in wikipedia in particular) and requires no explanation. Once you establish your alternative politically-correct term, it is only logical that all other articles should be changed accordingly, but you should start with the Israeli settlement article. Until then, leave this article as it is. Wikipedia allows you to have a link label different from the title of the article it links to, for the purpose of easy embedding in the text, not for the purpose of inventing new names. If the label is "communities and outposts", the title of the article ought to be "communities and outposts in the Israeli-Palestinian disputed territories" or something of the sort, so first establish your alternative to the concise "settlements". In a general discussion on "settlements", calling them cummunities is fine once it is established that the "settlements" are the subject, but this is the only place where "settlements" are mentioned, so the familiar term should be used. I'm changing it back, and we can have a thorough discussion on this in the Israeli settlement discussion page.--Doron 07:41, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  settlements - PC? 

message: I removed the "left wing" attribute to Gush Shalom, since the term has little to do with their activities and reads like a possible non-neutral perjorative term.  I also added the relavant UN resolutions and mentioned the Fouth Geneva Convention, so that it is understood from what established foundation Gush Shalom make's it's appeals.  Note that there should no controversy over the legal status of Israel's occupation of the West Bank, as a member of the UN, Israel is in ongoing violation of international law under Resolution 242.
:The previous version was NPOV.  Gush Shalom's interpretation of which UN resolutions are relevant and apply are just that, interpretations, not the final word. Jayjg (talk) 23:02, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  My edits... 

message: Reading this article for the first time, it comes across as "propagandised" and poor, the first two paragraphs in particular. Gush-Shalom is a well-established anti-government organisation, started by a well-informed source, and does not deserve to be treated in this fashion. The current version screams "POV". PalestineRemembered 12:23, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gush Shalom article fails to be encyclopaedic 

message: I would advise caution in quoting Uri Dan and Isi Liebler.  Both are considered very right-wing columnists.  If you want to quote them, you should mention this. --Ravpapa (talk) 21:00, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: They are to the right, but not radical right. To me there is a problem with many WP articles about individuals, or groups, in Israel are considered political fringe there, but with little indication of that in their WP articles. Gush Shalom is such a group on the left. On the right, Moshe Levinger comes to mind. Uri Dan and Isi Liebler are on the political right, but certainly not regarded as fringe. Malcolm Schosha (talk) 22:02, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Caution 

message: The article, as it now is, fails to convey the extent to which, within Israel, Gush Shalom is a fringe political group. Because of that, there is a serious problem with WP:NPOV.  Malcolm Schosha (talk) 13:56, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Odd -- I thought this was the point of adding Dan and Liebler.  How many different right-wing denunciations would it take to satisfy you?  Nomoskedasticity (talk) 15:10, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You answer underlines the problem: How many different right-wing denunciations would it take to satisfy you? Really? As though anyone who disagrees with Gush Shalom is by definition "right-wing". In fact Gush Shalom has virtually zero support in Israel from any group aside from the minuscule Maki, and Ratz. Once again, the article obscures the situation that Gush Slalom is a minuscule fringe political group. The majority of Israeli's tend to consider them as insane.  Malcolm Schosha (talk) 15:29, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have any other sources from the Israeli mainstream to show this? From the mainstream left in particular or from Ha'aretz? Itsmejudith (talk) 16:26, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: A search in Ha'aretz finds only two mentions of Gush Shalom. One has something to do with a European boycott of an Israeli water bottling plant; and the other laments that Israelis did not take the peace movement seriously, and only mentions the name of Gush Shalom without any discussion of the group. It is marginal. Malcolm Schosha (talk) 12:45, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You didn't look very hard, did you.  A google news search here turns up two mentions of Gush Shalom in Ha'aretz just in the last month.  Honestly...  Nomoskedasticity (talk) 13:01, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

text: The source I just added is a self testimony by Avneri on how they are rejected by left wing groups as overly leftist. JaakobouChalk Talk 17:41, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: indeed the fact that it is self describe is more than enough.I don't see where is the POV unless every article about left wing organization is POV.Oren.tal (talk) 10:30, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: POV problems

message: The article is not yet complete and certainly there are some neutrality issues but I'm not sure the POV tag is necessary at this point in time. Thoughts/suggestions? JaakobouChalk Talk 19:46, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I tagged the article because I thought there was nothing to convey that, within Israel, Gush Shalom is considered a fringe political group. Perhaps that is now corrected. I will trust your judgment, and will remove the tag. Malcolm Schosha (talk) 19:55, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There is certainly room to add some of their fringe activity (e.g. a eulogy for Arafat in Haaretz) and some more criticism against them, but the tag itself is not necessary since the article is not that bad that it demands a stamp of disapproval. JaakobouChalk Talk 20:03, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I hope we will remember that the encyclopedia must take a world view. My impression is that the reputation of Gush Shalom may be higher abroad than in Israel itself. That is notable and worth adding to the article if we can find appropriate sources. Itsmejudith (talk) 10:11, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If we have sources to that extent, I have no objection to it being noted as well. However, best I'm aware they do their activism mainly in Israel. JaakobouChalk Talk 11:09, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV tag 

message: I'm not seeing the stated support by Amnesty International in the source - a clarification or a better citation is needed please. JaakobouChalk Talk 17:27, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Amnesty International 

message: In the sentence "The Haaretz newspaper subsidizes a weekly editorial statement by Gush Shalom in its weekend edition.", change "subsidizes" to "publishes", or some such language that makes some sort of sense in this context.  (There's no source for this, so it's not at all clear if the choice of words is seeking to tsk-tsk at Haaretz for merely carrying such opinion pieces, or if it's commenting on payment for, well, content.)  84.203.42.206 (talk) 19:22, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Done Jackmcbarn (talk) 20:24, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request:  "The Haaretz newspaper subsidizes..." 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Is anybody able to comment on the status of that website? Is there a replacement? For how long has is been like that? --johayek (talk) 16:31, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no trouble opening the link. Perhaps it was just a temporary blip? RolandR (talk) 17:09, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: You are right, was only a temporary blip. Sorry for the noise. I am happy to get this section removed at any time. --johayek (talk) 15:24, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Website gush-shalom.org was offline temporarily – issue completed