Talk:Super Smash Bros. Brawl/Archive 23

message: Should we put on the Subscape Emissary section the events that occur on the story. It's much like a plot section on an average Wikipedia article, so I think it's better we put exactly what happens (such as Wario kidnapping Zelda as a trophy after Kirby beated Petey.  --Mr.Mario 192 21:08, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If this DOES happen, it would be best to wait until,l the game is out. Dengarde ► Complaints  21:13, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a terrible idea. We don't know any details, we have no sound, just video. Just wait. -Sukecchi 21:24, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Sukecchi was referring to the latest Subspace Emissary videos on Gametrailers.com, were the sound has been cut. Although we can still gather what's happening from those videos, it can't be added because observing something and making interpretations is original research, which isn't allowed. It's good to see that you want to improve the article, though. -- POWERSLAVE 21:45, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I know this may be unprofessional and unhelpful(sorry Sukecchi) considering that every time I say this, people ignore me, but what we really need to do is wait until everything is confirmed on dojo. That's what I do. I even added it on my favorites, so I can just turn the computer on every morning, and check it, so I don't miss anything. You should do that. There, I think that's fair.Green Kirby 22:20, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: They will probaly delete that You Tube video soon, sinse it has'nt been shown on Dojo.Green Kirby 22:32, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

text: That's not what I meant. I mean that sinse it has'nt been shown on Dojo yet, It will be deleted.Green Kirby 22:37, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Sorry, I meant Dojo. Sinse it has'nt been shown on Dojo yet, it will be deleted.Green Kirby 22:42, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

text: He changed "YouTube" to "Dojo" along with making a new post.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 22:59, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Well I think the creators want to show all there stuff on Dojo FIRST. Some of the other footage may just happen to be on You Tube. I never said it was'nt true.Green Kirby 23:12, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

text: I doubt it. For all we know, there could be more prior to what has been shown in the movies on Dojo. What's been shown there is all we know. That's all. We can put up what we have now, but we can't say that it's the beginning. InsaneZeroG 01:09, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I see we have come to an agreement. To wait until the game comes out. Now let's just drop it.Green Kirby 01:05, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  How about this someone will make a new page only about the Subscape Army amd the different story mode for every player?--FrosticeBlade 01:25, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm just trying to help.Green Kirby 01:24, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

text: I never said put it in the article. I said make a New article about it.--FrosticeBlade 02:09, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps that could be done. But still, there's no real info on the story as of yet. Such an article shouldn't be made until we know everything about the story and the mode.Satoryu 02:17, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

text: I agree, but then again, you guys probaly won't listen to me.Green Kirby 02:27, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In all truth, and in no offensive way, I'm more ready to listen to you than I am to listen to FrostIceBlade who seems to not understand how things are done on Wikipedia InsaneZeroG 02:35, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

text: I don't understand why some people are so adamant about information being put up before a game is out. Who is it really helping by simply having possibly erroneous information out before a game is out? And who would it be helping by just listing something videos are depicting without solid evidence? Wait for things to be released by an notable source and do not speculate. Also, please Green Kirby, contribute to discussions by adding thoughts other than apologies and simple replies to a post. Do not reply to this one for example. *kaburicho 07:13, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So have we finaly come to an agreement?Green Kirby 12:30, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

text: This is the last time I will say this, WAIT UNTIL IT'S CONFIRMED ON DOJO. I'm sick of you people ignoring me, and when you do talk to me, you only bring up negative stuff about me. For instance, saying that it's rare when you agree with me is negative. And when I do make a point, you just pretend I did'nt say anything and keep going with your pointless disscussion. Just because I'm not an administrator, dose'nt mean I can't help.Green Kirby 23:28, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Many editors here arent admins, please G.K get off your pitty potty. We can see what you type, although it is the choice of the reader to care or not. Atomic Religione  —Preceding comment was added at 01:02, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Your post does not relate in any way to the one it's referring to. You might want to reread the discussion.--141.84.69.20 00:10, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I try to tell people to just wait until it's confirmed on dojo, but they just ignore me. People like Sukecchi only point out the bad things I've done.Green Kirby 00:45, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've read what you tried to tell. Have you read that FrosticeBlade in the end only promoted the idea of an article for the story mode, once the game was released? It has nothing to do with the first proposition of this section.  You should be thankful towards those who point out your faults. In order to overcome faults, you have to recognize them at first.--141.84.69.20 01:06, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Yeah I guess you're right.Green Kirby 01:24, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Tis not. Best we know the whole story and put in the important parts. Dengarde ► Complaints  03:58, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed there should be no work on this kind of development especially since the game has not been released yet. -Adv193 04:14, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Story 

message: Quick question: I know something about the Subspace Emissary because of videos found at GameTrailers, IGN and Gamespot, AKA how you will choose your character for the next stage. Can I write this info down and use those sites as references or must I wait for the DOJO to officially tell us? Thanks in advance. WebJiCi 20:56, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortunately, you'll have to wait until it's on the Dojo. Currently, deriving info from those videos would be original research, which should be avoided. When they're on the Dojo, they will probably have some info posted with them. Powerslave 22:18, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Videos as reference 

message: There is constant back and forthing right now. We need to establish what is appropiate for the AUS Release Date. If there is even more back and forthing, I am going to request Full Protection until it gets resolved. Trevor "Tinkleheimer" Haworth 01:04, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  TBC v. TBD 2008 

message: Can you guys put the list of each and every rule you've made for this page? I'm sick of having not only my contribution(s) deleted but also getting insulted by those who delete them, just because I didn't follow the rules. Guess what? your "rules" are hard to find, hard to see AND hard to read, as well as sometimes questionable. So can you guys please make a list of those rules, as well as a link to this list at the top of the page, right here, right now? Thank you. Forgive my rudeness, but I'm not pleased that us, SSB fans, cannot properly contribute to this page because of something we don't know about. WebJiCi 20:32, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Normal talk page rules apply, but anything that includes the same discussion as The Smash Bros. Brawl FAQ most likely will deleted. Trevor "Tinkleheimer" Haworth 20:37, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Some general ones: A talk page is not a fourm, use common sense, wait for offical comfirmatiotion, be respectful (don't bite of other's heads), this is not a game guide, ect. ect.→041744 21:38, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

text: I believe that WebJiCi means more along the lines of don't make lists, etc. It does seem that the regular editors of this page are a bit more strict than others (which I can understand--this page does undergo a lot of pointless/stupid (for lack of a better word) edits, and I think WebJiCi is asking for a list of what should and shouldn't be included in the article.Purplepurplepurple 02:54, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rules 

message: Today's update on the dojo is the return of break the targets, we should add it to the stadium section, for Brawl. I would but, I have to go; so thanks whoever ends up doing it for me. (Sina Cool 10:57, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Targets have been in every game, so yes, I believe this does need mentioned because it's changed from Melee. However, for future reference, Sina, not everything on Dojo will be worth mentioning, just keep that in mind, buku. -Sukecchi 11:11, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Please see the FAQ and WP:DIEU. — Malcolm (talk) 23:20, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Retard-created rule? Newsflash: You don't have to contribute here. Calm down. ShadowUltra 20:56, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Target Smash 

message: This should be in the article,look on the last archive for more info, the disscussion didn't really get finished. Claycrow 11:52, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's really only an aesthetic change...maybe if there was a small mention of things brought back from the first game...like the intros and the results screen...but other than that, no, not really. -Sukecchi 12:06, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This wasnt mentioned in the SSB page(at least when I last checked), why should it be mentioned here?→041744 12:24, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The only reason I can think of is because they were absent from Melee. -Sukecchi 12:25, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Even so, that's not much of a reason. The intros are just too trivial to mention.Satoryu 17:57, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Intros

message: This info was up on Dojo today...don't you think that this is significant enough to mention? I don't see it in the article as it is now, but this should probably be mentioned in the Gameplay section (after the mention of snapshot-taking and sending capabilities, I would imagine), or perhaps in the Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection section. If we opted for the latter, perhaps we should change "Other Wi-Fi services are set to be available, but these functions are currently unknown." to something like "Other Wi-Fi services are set to be available, such as screenshot- and video-sharing functionality and other, currently unknown services."
Anyway, I want to know what you think before acting on this... 66.178.141.175 22:32, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The section mentions battles and sandbag co-ops, but it "could" mention sending screenshots and replay saves as well. Honestly, it doesn't hurt the section to mention confirmed wi-fi capabilities. Mentioning "other, currently unknown services" seems like a bad idea though. *kaburicho 01:05, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Video Replay and Data Sharing

message: "Though, a slight flaw within most Wi-fi connection battles, there may be some lag to the game play. Other than that, the game is guaranteed to run smoothly." - How does anyone know this for sure? The game isn't out yet!  Doktor  Wilhelm  15:53, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd have to check to be sure, but I believe the release talking about the Wi-Fi battles actually mentioned that. But I'm not positive. DurinsBane87 16:10, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

text: I think the wording was a bit off, but is the lag that may happen really needed to be includded in the article, specially before the game is even released, that's all I was thinking, but it's gone now so it's okay, I can relax and stop screaming!  Doktor  Wilhelm  03:26, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection]]

message: I've found some evidence that Krystal from the Starfox series is going to be somewhere in the game, whether it be as a playable character, assist trophy, or part of the Subspace Emissary:  
The voice actresses homepage is at 
Do you think this is worth mentioning somewhere on this page or on others related to SSBB or Krystal?
I think we should mention the evidence, because I think it is good proof that she will be somewhere in the game
PS: Maybe then we could also mention the proof that Ganondorf and Shiek will be somewhere in the game as well. --Adam 05:54, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We're already having this discussion on the series talk page. Arrowned 06:08, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And a collective descision has been made not to add any characters (or rumors) until they're released on the official Smash Bros. website . Joiz A. Shmo 12:48, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not quite, it is to only add stuff once an authoritative source reveals it. I call the artist's page authoritative in this case. But per other rules, we don't add it. For one thing, we don't know exactly what to add, it could be a brief cameo apparence or a full character. This means we need a more detailed source too. And even then, there is the rule we can't add everything in the article.--Henke37 16:37, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But shouldn't we at least mention that there is a source that mentions some sort of inclusion of Krystal in Super Smash Bros Brawl.--Adam 17:19, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, because it's speculation. There is NOTHING you can say about this that wouldn't be speculation. -Sukecchi 17:20, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What, that link provides proof that Krystal along with her voice, will be in Super Smash Bros Brawl in some form, not necessarily a playable character, I'm not speculating in that way.--Adam 21:18, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Could you people just wait till shes on Dojo just b/c the voice actor is mentioned does not mean shes in the game, Just wait till its on dojo. --FrosticeBlade 22:13, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It means that the voice actor worked with the makers of Super Smash Bros Brawl by giving them her voice for Krystal, I'm not saying she's playable, but we could say somewhere that: "Alesia Glidewell has provided the voice for Krystal in this game, but Krystal's role in the game has not be announced." or something like that, it's not speculation because she has given her voice, and we're not sure why.--Adam 02:25, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, that is speculation. Either way, it's not relevant enough to mention.Satoryu 02:45, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think proof that Alesia Glidewall's voice, portraying the character Krystal, from the Starfox series, in the game Super Sash Bros. Brawl counts as speculation. Plus on top of it all, whats so bad about some facts that there is speculation. Like saying that Krystal will be in the game, but there's speculation one what role she will play in the game.--Adam 03:12, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Whether it's speculation or not doesn't change the fact that it's not really relevant to the article.  Krystal, if she appears, would only be as a playable character or an assist trophy... and assist trophies aren't listed in the article, while playable characters are getting no more examples added.  If Dojo confirms her playability, she'll be added to the character table at (series), but not here. Arrowned 03:21, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But since there's also proof that Sheik and Ganondorf will in someway be included, couldn't we add a section to the Brawl page or the series page.--24.17.227.150 04:43, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, for the exact same reason I just mentioned for Krystal.  Whether they're playable or not, they're not going on the Brawl page, so it's not relevant.  And they're not going on (series) until Dojo has confirmed them. Arrowned 18:00, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Krystal 

message: Do Inclusion of characters and Characters, really need to be apart??? Claycrow 13:22, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There already is. Look at the box at the bottom of the page or above the Playable Characters section... Shyrangerr 21:03, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge

message: A trophy section isn't really needed.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.186.101.182 (talk) 23:26, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. It isn't even needed once the game releases and we know all the trophies and such. Shyrangerr 00:33, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

text: That would be good if the section was long enough. I'm not sure we'd even have enough for a Collectibles section once the game is released. The section just needs to be deleted and Trophies and Stickers should be mentioned some place else in the article. Shyrangerr 21:12, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

text: No, there shouldn't be a Trophy/Collectible section. Trophies and Stickers should just be mentioned somewhere else in the article. Shyrangerr 21:37, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree.  Trophies/collectibles aren't major enough to have their own section, and the article is big enough.  A sentence for them is good, yeah.  I agree with that.  But not a section.  BlueCanary9999 03:22, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Trophies

message: Did anyone from Nintendo or anyone who made Super Smash Brothers Brawl say that some of the player will not be returning?--FrosticeBlade 21:56, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, Sakurai said it himself. However, like everything else he has said there's no link to it... Shyrangerr 22:30, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

text: So it can't be proven,--FrosticeBlade 22:42, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Characters not returning 

message: 
to the external links section please add . thanks.--Alertdaterms0 01:01, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Declined - given the discussion there, it's probably best that we follow the same decision here. No consensus to add the link, sorry. Nihiltres(t.l) 14:38, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Add Wikia link 

message: In article, like now. I'm not doing it because I can't edit for the life of me. So I thought I'd let you guys know 66.133.193.216 07:09, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Info's in there, it just got moved out of its own section and merged into the basic gameplay section after the bit about stages in general MarkSutton 14:35, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Where is Stage Builder?

message: The source given for Tournament mode being online doesn't state, as far as I can see, that it will be online. Would someone be a dear and point out where it states that, buku? -Sukecchi 12:05, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I nuked it since I can't find a source for it. Please folks, do your homework... Coreycubed 13:14, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tourney mode online? 

message: The section is getting way too long, and it will only keep getting longer. We should not be giving expansive details on every little feature. Try to summarize parts and restructure it. TTN 14:25, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: For once, I actually agree with TTN. (And trust me, thats rare.) It seems like were adding details for every mode there is, which is really cluttering up the article. Dengarde ► Complaints  16:45, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Gameplay

message: Going off of the Krystal debate, maybe their should be a seperate section about Unnanounced characters on the Brawl Website, but characters confirmed or hinted by other sources.  Ex. Krystal, Ridley, WW Link, some sort of Animal Crossing Character. Sorry, no link. Maybe someone else can provide one.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.111.222.18 (talk) 21:01, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: NOte: the proper definition for confirmed is by Nintendo or an equally reliable source. InsaneZeroG 22:29, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

text: This would be better suited for the Smash Wiki.  --Son 00:19, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Actually, Sakurai is the only reliable source; since he's the guy in charge of, you know; making the game. Nothing is "announced" or "confirmed" unless he "announces" or "confirms" it. Not even if someone "says" Sakurai said it; only if it's straight from the Masahiro's mouth. - Jishmeister 11:45, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

text: how about this we add her to the list but we put Question mark instead of a check just to make every one happy.--FrosticeBlade 15:33, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Absolutely not.  Not only is that against consensus, but since her role is speculation until Dojo mentions her, it's unnecessary. Arrowned 16:02, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

text: For those who are just reading this and wondering what reliable sources are, I'd like to mention nintendo.com and nintendo.jp. Socby19 19:25, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, and people like Reggie Fils-Aime. NOT that random E For All dude. Coreycubed 19:37, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

text: How about this when we see the new players with our own eyes then we could put them up reading doesn't count. You have to see it, voice actors/actress don't count. Anything thats on Dojo counts only b/c the maker of the game puts the news up himself.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by FrosticeBlade (talk • contribs) 20:59, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

text: To tell you the truth It is driving my crazy if there will or if there will not be a player from animal crossing in SSBB.--FrosticeBlade 21:27, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is going to be an AC character. The icon confirms at. Every single icons always gets it's own character. Even though this is true, there isn't any official source for it so it can't be mentioned. Shyrangerr 21:33, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

text: So who does PictoChat belong to Game and watch or some one from drawn to life?--FrosticeBlade 21:42, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The one that applies most directly to the icon is just a simple drawing from Pictochat. The music you can play (which currently we know is only available from the stage's series) is Pictochat, Mii Chanel, Wii Shop Chanel, and Brain Age. That opens up Miis you can upload from your system and Dr. Kawashima from Brain Age. You could go even further to say the icon represents Touch Generations and that opens up L-Block, Nintendog, and an Elite Beat Agent. Shyrangerr 21:48, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just cuase there is a icon does not mean there will be a playable reprensentive, what about the lip's stick from melee? Lip nor anything eles from that game never appear ecept mabey in trophies. And sayin "there will not be a player from animal crossing" and "That opens up Miis you can upload from your system and Dr. Kawashima from Brain Age. You could go even further to say the icon represents Touch Generations and that opens up L-Block, Nintendog, and an Elite Beat Agent." is nothing more than mindless speculation.→041744 21:58, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So why are you still talking about it? The PictoChat icon is the DS logo. Simple as that. Coreycubed 22:00, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: An icon DOES mean a character. That's why every single icon has at least one character. Lip' Stick is an ITEM, NOT an icon. There is a difference between the two. Shyrangerr 22:54, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That is still unbacked speculation with no place on wikipedia, besides we this arguement won't improve the article at all.→041744 23:32, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I know, that's why I said it shouldn't be added. Shyrangerr 02:42, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

text: This would be the reason why I created the next talk section. Sakurai and the Dojo aren't the only reliable sources. Like if Aonuma were to have said "Sheik and Ganondorf are playable" instead of the their designs were submitted, that would be reliable because it's coming from the director of one of Nintendo's biggest series. Shyrangerr 11:27, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unnanounced but Confirmed 

message: Some of you seem to think that unless it's said by Sakurai or posted on the Dojo that it's not true. There ARE other reliable sources besides those two. If someone like Reggie were to say "Sigurd is in Brawl", then Sigurd's in Brawl. Just like Aonuma saying that Sheik and Ganondof's models were submitted is true. Anyone high up from Nintendo that says something is just as reliable as Sakurai or the Dojo. Someone like that one random guy that mentioned Luigi in the interview is NOT reliable though. Just keep this in mind. Shyrangerr 21:32, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: isn't Reggie from Nintendo of America? So, what's he got to do with it, the games being made by a company on behalf of Nintendo of Japan?  Doktor  Wilhelm  22:00, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: He makes statements at official Nintendo events on behalf of Nintendo as a corporation, as seen at E3 and previous trade shows, often before the official website shows the information. Coreycubed 22:02, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Wow. Yes, it pretty much means just that.--141.84.69.20 01:35, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

text: "The point is if it comes from someone high up in Nintendo it's true" That does sound very naive! We are talking about people who arn't connected to the project, and even members of the SSBB team, don't know what will be in the final game, until it is finally out?(why are Americans so obsessed with Reggie, anyways?)  Doktor  Wilhelm  23:30, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Its his devilish good looks......nah, I guess we kind of see him as our gateway to Japan and Nintendo. Atomic Religione 23:44, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: With being Europian, I've no such figure-head of nintendo to look up to (they just ingnore us most of the time), 'tis a shame, that the only reason why I'm curious about americans' relationship with Reggie!  Doktor  Wilhelm  00:37, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

text: With all due respect, it's just as naive to believe that portions of a company don't stay in general contact with each other when it comes to products being released worldwide, don't give each other general updates, and don't keep the higher ups of each portion informed for PR reasons.  If a person that we know for a fact is an employee of Nintendo but who isn't part of the SSBB dev team (Miyamoto, as well as Reggie, are examples) says something about Brawl, there's no reason not to believe it's true.  If Sakurai later claims otherwise, there's no reason to believe the first person was lying; it's far more likely things simply changed and the second person is just the first to inform the public.  Brawl's release date changing comes to mind on that end. Arrowned 00:00, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: it's not about lying, it's about back-upable information, anyone one can say that anyone said anything, unless there is a 'hard copy' of the facts so to speak, I've looked forward to much that various members (specially the "high ups") of games developers have promised, only to be disapointed when it was taken out/removed/never in the finished game! I really think there is a lot of speculation, that is being reported as fact, and can only be proved to be true or not once the finished product is in all our (probaly very Sweaty) hands! Also if Sakurai has final say on everything, why is it not of an advantage to wait for him to announce it? (and even then he doesn't seem to sure about everything!?)  Doktor  Wilhelm  00:37, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There's a difference between speculation as you're talking and speculation as Wikipedia considers it.  "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth."  If somebody "in the know" gives information and can be properly cited (or if gameplay videos are uploaded where they can be watched), there is nothing in Wikipedia rules that prevents us as using that as legit information in the article.  Individual people can choose not to believe specific points until Sakurai confirms them, but as far as the article is concerned, there's no reason to wait.  As for your note on things being removed from the game, if they were planned to be in the game at one point, then it's not speculation that they existed, but that's another discussion entirely. Arrowned 00:49, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "can be properly cited (or if gameplay videos are uploaded where they can be watched)", yes, but often it's neither of these, it's just something someone read somewhere! Oh, so if something can be Verified with ONE source, then even if it is a known un-truth (though because know one would really believe it, there is nothing to verifiy it's un-truth), it is acceptable? I am not against outside sources, I just wonder why people are considering that EVERYTHING is true, with out proper knowledge of anything solid! And how can people choose what to believe, if a lot of fact are just what people have read into various quotations of Heads of various Sections of a company?  Doktor  Wilhelm  01:04, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you're misunderstanding me.  I'm not arguing against stuff being left out if there isn't any viable citations linking back to it; it'd be silly to put it in then.  I'm arguing against the idea of stuff that does have proper citations to interviews with legit people being removed because "legit people" isn't just Sakurai himself and no-one else.  As for your comment about "known un-truths", that's hardly relevant; from day 1, we've not been adding things to this article unless it was something that hadn't been conflicted by other news.  All in all, it seems to me your complaint is less about Wikipedia's rules and more about your own disappointments with various developers in the past and news they announce that they later renege on, and while I totally understand where you're coming from (I feel the same way!), I don't think it has much to do with this article. Arrowned 05:07, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

text: (I haven't read the entire conversation, so please forgive me if some or all of my argument was stated by somebody else.)@ Doktor Wilhelm - "We are talking about people who arn't connected to the project, and even members of the SSBB team, don't know what will be in the final game, until it is finally out?"; As high as Reggie is, he does know what's going on with the game, as he oversees the development of it. Smash is one of Nintendo's biggest franchises. Even if he doesn't oversee every detail, he does know what he says is true at the time, and most likely for the rest of game development. Do you really think he would make an announcement out of the blue that didn't have any truth to it? Can you imagine the consequences for having to retract or having someone else retract supposed announcement? Just look at what backlash had occurred when Reggie's 'December 10th' announcement from E3 was retracted and given another date. He made that announcement with full knowledge that the game would be ready by then. Why? Because the game appeared to be progressing toward that date. Sooner than later, we get a message that game development has some tweaking they have to do. They obviously didn't see this coming. When Reggie makes an announcement, it's because the message he is conveying has been backed up by proof that Nintendo stands by and won't have a problem in the future. As high as he is, he would want to see proof that what he's saying is true. (Again, he wouldn't want to make a retraction of such a statement.) One, last, shorter point. When he does make an announcement, (esp. with a character) he'd display such proof to the public. Socby19 05:45, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You could tell me that he is Higher than heaven it's self, and I still wouldn't understand how this man named Reggie has anything to do with the development of SSBM, it's not even in the hands of Nintendo of Japan at the moment, so how does the Head of Nintendo of America know all? This has all the trappings of the Great Wizard  of Oz to me, somebody hould look behind the curtain! (I've ben on Message boards filled with many of the American gaming public and witnessed first hand, that Reggie tells porkies!) I'll say this though: I believe everyone should post what ever they want about the game (as long as it's from the muth/site of Nintendo or a related company), I just hope that some people who read the article (In the future, with an spculativ information) but have no understanding of all this that is going on behind the scenes (with You the Fans), doesn't get disapointed with the final game (though if they do, I'll be the first to ask why!)... Ack, this is the end of my comments on this subject, I've a feeling I'll do better to learn about NoA's Reggie and why NoE hates us so much, instead of creating walls of txet with my (probably miss phrased, and wrongly placed) question!  Doktor  Wilhelm  06:11, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Reggie Fils-Aime is Nintendo of America's President and Chief Operating Officer.  Satoru Shibata is his European counterpart as the President of NoE.  The head of NoA does not "know all", but as he's in charge of one of Nintendo's major divisions, it's his job to know what's going on throughout the company, on either side of the pond.  The same goes for Satoru Iwata, the President of Nintendo overall and specifically its Japanese division.  Video game companies with branches in multiple countries do not act under embargo; when a game is to be released in different regions, a large number of people within the company in all regions involved are kept up to date on details of the game.  Perhaps it takes having physically worked for a company with that type of setup to understand, but seriously; that's the way it works.  It's illogical to think that Sakurai and the Brawl development team are the only people on the planet that know things about the game's details in action; it would be impossible for them to put the game out and keep the company's timetables apprised if they didn't tell their bosses what they were doing as they did it. Arrowned 06:23, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Kind of rooting from the point Arrowned has made. Although the game may be developed in Japan, it is still being released in America. Hence, Fils-Aime, as President of NoA, must have an overview of games that are being released in his 'territory', regardless of where it is being developed. From the same point of debate, he is the one to make an announcement, since America is his 'territory'. Socby19 22:43, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Should this even be here? how does it help the article?--FrosticeBlade 23:12, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You need sources for articles. So yes, it is important. -Sukecchi 23:50, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I originally created this because there were people that were saying Sakurai and the Dojo are the only reliable sources you can use. Then this developed into talking about Reggie because I used him as one example. Shyrangerr 11:24, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sakurai and the Dojo aren't the only two reliable sources 

message: I need someone who is a constant contributor to SSBB to proofread the classic section. Namely Sukecchi, Arrowned, Satoryu, etc. And sorry if I misspell your names, I am going by memory. Trevor "Tinkleheimer" Haworth 02:20, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And me! Don't forget me! *ahem* I tweaked the section a little bit, otherwise it's perfect. It doesn't need to be any longer or shorter. Coreycubed 15:24, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proofread the Classic Section