Talk:The 69 Eyes

message: Goth rock moved in many different directions in the '90s and early 2000s, ranging from high-tech, heavily programmed electro-goth at one end to more organic, guitar-powered goth at the other. And goth rock doesn't get much more guitar-powered than Finland's the 69 Eyes, who have successfully combined the gloominess of Bauhaus and the Sisters of Mercy with influences that include the Doors, Alice Cooper, David Bowie, Iggy Pop, the Stranglers and even headbangers like Guns N' Roses, Rob Zombie and Motörhead. The 69 Eyes may be the most rock & roll band in goth rock (perhaps their music should be called "goth & roll"), and in fact, there are plenty of goth purists who will no doubt hear Framed in Blood: The Very Blessed of the 69 Eyes and insist that this best-of CD isn't really goth rock. They will claim that rockin' tracks like "Crashing High," "Ghettoway Car," "Too Much to Lose" and the Scandinavian hit "Gothic Girl" are merely punky hard rock or alternative rock with goth overtones; that no true goth band would have all the Lemmy Kilmister-isms that assert themselves on "Wrap Your Troubles in Dreams," "Tang" and "Velvet Touch." But whether one sees these performances (which span 1995-2002) as true goth or merely goth-influenced, the fact is the 69 Eyes are infectious and a lot of fun. The word "fun," of course, isn't often used in connection with goth rock (which is known for its ultra-seriousness), but it's a word that easily describes the 69 Eyes on their own material as well as their clever remake of Blondie's "Call Me." For those who haven't experienced the "goth & roll" pleasures of the 69 Eyes, Framed in Blood would be an excellent starting point. ~ Alex Henderson, All Music Guide 
Lets analyze this review, from Alex Henderson. This seems to be the source to support it into "gothic rock." But he goes on to mention bands that are not gothic rock. Rob zombie? Motorhead? Guns n roses? Alice cooper? They mention a few bands that can be considered connected to gothic rock but he goes on to stress that in comparison to gothic rock they only seem to show influences or overtones. He seems to question the matter. Again, some may call them "gothic rock influenced" (which I wouldn't) which is already included in the article, this reviewer like many others throws around invented terms like "goth n roll" and "goth punk." Its almost as bad as people who try to use "love metal" with that crappy HIM band. This seems to only support influence, not actual gothic rock.   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.192.236.174 (talk) 01:43, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Billboard review

message: I've noticed that some articles about bands will have the members' real names and then nicknames in quotations, if no one minds, I'm going to do that to this article. (So like, "Jussi Heikki Tapio 'Jussi 69' Vuori".) If someone thinks that should be written differently, then by all means, do something, but for now I think it would make the article a tad bit more encyclopedic if we had their real names.--FaerytaleMalice 09:13, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Names

message: There was a piece of trivia on this page that i deleted because it more so applied to Jyrki only, as opposed to the whole band. I put it on Jyrki's personal, SEPARATE page. I hope no one minds...if someone does then i could change it back. Rock on!!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.142.1.119 (talk) 06:54, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trivia 

message: I asked for semi-protection of this article due the anon IP genre "offencive" against band's goth label. :) The Merciful 23:18, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protection? 

message: :Image:The69eyesblacklogo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
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BetacommandBot (talk) 19:41, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:The69eyesblacklogo.png

message: Says this page needs sources. I went and put them in where I think they needed them, but it would be helpfull if someone says what needs a source. WeLsHy (talk) 06:47, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources 

message: I request for third opinion. User User:Ada Kataki is reverting any edits in The 69 Eyes article and album articles (Blessed Be, Paris Kills, Devils (album)), if Gothic rock genre is mentioned, even when referenced. User claims all cited sources as unreliable, though adds no other sources, which would support different point of view. As for now, there're several Billboard reviews, several All Music Guide reviews , RockDetector article, Discogs database, and several other sources that cite "gothic rock" genre. And there's, until now, no sources that counter that (and certainly, no sources for "heavy metal" or "dark rock"). I propose the gothic rock genre must be at least mentioned and listed in band's article as well as in album articles. Garret Beaumain (talk) 21:16, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Gothic rock is post punk genre with a strong psychedelic rock influence. The 69 eyes is a sleaze rock/metal group, nothing more. I agree, the band's music has a Gothic rock influence. But The 69 Eyes isn't a Gothic rock group. They're not representative of the genre. I listen to Gothic rock since two decades and the music of The 69 Eyes is very atypical. Don't forget their influences (Elvis Presley, Guns 'n Roses and others). --Ada Kataki (talk) 23:33, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah I had to remove it again. Source of rockdetector is being used constantly, which is a self-created and reviewing site. Wikipedia does not condone their use. While I will go as far to say that rockdetector creator is recognize as an "authority" in some fields, if you look through the internet he is mainly a metal/industrial reviewer. Gothic rock is not a part of this area at all. Some say that they take an "influence," and even that is straining it but that is as far as I could conceivably concede to. Some people consider wearing black an "influence" of gothic rock and its very sketchy. But to say they belong to the genre is ridiculous. No mainstream band even plays gothic rock anymore, and any new additions must be substanstially archaic in their style. Off the record, just examine 69 eyes and then look at gothic rock bands. For christ sakes, their associated acts are "HIM" and "Cradle of Filth," both metal bands that play hard music. They associate with people like Bam Margera and their ilk. You can not honestly listen to sex gang children and then 69 eyes and actually think they are in the same room together?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.192.236.174 (talk) 00:16, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

text: Loathe as I am to admit this, Ada is right. There is nothing about this band that qualifies them as being in any way Gothic anything. These sources are highly suspect and all of their influences are metal. Which automatically disqualifies them from being Goth. Please read the section in Gothic subculture where Mercer describes neos as only being famous for spectacularly missing the point. Neos, in this case, being anyone who could call 69 Eyes Goth. Goth is not glam. Goth was originally the anti-disco. Glam and disco are pretty much interchangable. Glam Goth is also an oxymoron. Just like "Gothic metal". Doesn't the fact that this article has a history of reverts by Goth and Rivethead editors on the genre section tell you anything? They do not qualify as Goth. They don't make Gothic music of any kind. They're rock, maybe. Metal, probably. And Goth? Not even close. And "genre warriors"? Really? Grow up. If someone reverts an edit to Vanilla Ice's page calling his music neoclassical do you accuse that person of something so insipid as being a "genre warrior"? As editors you are custodians of fact. You're not here to change fact to suit your opinions or taste. Kindly stop calling this band Gothic rock.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.181.244.79 (talk) 12:31, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Request for third opinion

message: I think the second source given to classify the band as goth rock is sufficient. The Billboard review says "And goth rock doesn't get much more guitar-powered than Finland's the 69 Eyes" - I'm not sure that could be any clearer. The first link given - the review for Devils - actually states that the band is goth punk, and only says that the band "has studied the goth rock masters." I have since found another article at http://www.straight.com/article-69938/finland-s-69-eyes-carries-the-glam-goth-torch, which says "will his glam-goth rock quintet". That's got "goth rock" right in it, so I've removed the other link and added this one in. Normally criteria on Wikipedia ask for two or more independent sources to say something, so I think the two sources here are sufficient.
Having said that, the article is a mess. Eight of the twelve sources are from the band's site, which is sort of a violation of WP:SPS. You should most certainly be able to find a source for "Angels debuted at number 1 in Finland and has since gone gold." — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 14:50, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Third opinion

message: Ada, please stop blindly reverting. There's at least three people on this talk page who believe that the Goth rock genre should be included on the article page, which is far more than the people who want it removed. Please respect WP:CONSENSUS and stop reverting. Thanks. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 14:29, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Loathe as I am to admit this, Ada is right. There is nothing about this band that qualifies them as being in any way Gothic anything. These sources are highly suspect and all of their influences are metal. Which automatically disqualifies them from being Goth. Please read the section in Gothic subculture where Mercer describes neos as only being famous for spectacularly missing the point. Neos, in this case, being anyone who could call 69 Eyes Goth. Goth is not glam. Goth was originally the anti-disco. Glam and disco are pretty much interchangable. Glam Goth is also an oxymoron. Just like "Gothic metal". Doesn't the fact that this article has a history of reverts by Goth and Rivethead editors on the genre section tell you anything? They do not qualify as Goth. They don't make Gothic music of any kind. They're rock, maybe. Metal, probably. And Goth? Not even close. And "genre warriors"? Really? Grow up. If someone reverts an edit to Vanilla Ice's page calling his music neoclassical do you accuse that person of something so insipid as being a "genre warrior"? As editors you are custodians of fact. You're not here to change fact to suit your opinions or taste. Kindly stop calling this band Gothic rock.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.181.244.79 (talk) 12:31, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Reverts

message: Shouldn't this be added? The entire band is apart of this project to bring awareness to the state of the Baltic Sea and do something about it. The past few weeks their mobile blogs have been nothing but the time spent on the boat. Infact they only recently got off the boat  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.240.155.95 (talk) 10:40, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pirates of the baltic sea? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080109185527/http://www.69eyes.com/angelsite/biography/ to http://www.69eyes.com/angelsite/biography/
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thread_title:  External links modified