Talk:British Transport Police

message: </blockquote>
: Anyone who is really interested can read the actual text of the act, whilst the general idea that in most circumstances a BTP officer can excercise their powers, is put across? Just a thought from the met... 
: PS, Richio, you can 'sign' your posts by typing ~~~~. Like this: Sapient 19:26, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Any rumours that I may have gone into the back yard of a certain BTP station in London and wound-up a probationer that I was 'checking to see where we would put things when we took over' are wholy without foundation. Honest. But seriously, I've not heard anything from the met side, aside from one rumour saying that the BTP were going to be unable to police Crossrail and that we would have to do it instead... Sapient 22:26, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

text: I can assure you, at ground level, there is no groundswell of support for taking over the BTP - it's a non-issue! Sapient 22:02, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: References

message: Not sure what this section is trying to convey.  It states, "BTP officers can deal with..." then goes on to list a number of different crimes?!  This is a bit misleading as BTP officers can deal with any crime as any other police officer.  Not sure why it is there. Dibble999 21:33, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Crime on the Railway

message: The BTP's reputation was further lowered following a low-speed train derailment near Glasgow, caused by the track spreading because of thermal expansion in unusually hot weather, when the BTP insisted on treating the accident as a scene of crime, detaining hundreds of passengers for many hours while statements were taken.  Says who?  It's not cited and not really a very NPOV so perhaps it should be removed, or at least atrributed to whoever said it?? Escaper7 08:07, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Non-npov section

message: * I have expanded the history
* I have recast a secton on  Control Rooms which had an unfairly London-centric view of the force
* I have, as far as possible, added references.
--Maxburgoyne 00:09, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Personally, I'm not a fan of long sections on history so far up an article.  I think it's extremely detailed and comprehensive which is great; but I think it's in the wrong place and should be further down the article.  Just my view. Escaper7 13:09, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Misc

message: I've just added that BTP polices the Sunderland line of the Tyne and Wear Metro (between Pelaw and South Hylton)
However, there is talk that responsibility for the whole of the Tyne and Wear network be changed from Northumbria Police to BTP in the not-so-distant future... BNC85 15:00, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Tyne & Wear Metro

message: Can anyone dig up a proper cite for the first group of constables employed solely to protect railways who were:-
*-railway employees
*-employed as constables
and were not:-
*-merely "policemen" in the early railway sense, i.e. persons principally concerned with the control of trains
*-railwaymen who happened also to be (ordinary non-railway) constables, unless the latter was necessarily done so that a force of railway constables could be formed within the existing workforce
Presumably some of the many railway histories have authoritative references.
The BTP claim of 1829 (unless I've missed an update) fails to quote anything that doesn't verify that the "policemen" are not actually the early signalmen.
This could also give scope for a paragaph listing earlier forces.
--MBRZ48 19:15, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have checked with the BTP Historical Society based at Tadworth. It is on an intranet so sadly I cannot provide a link. I appreciate that the responsibilities may well have been closer to a track inspector than a curent police officer; how can we know?  A solution may be a paragraph from yourself to that effect.
 --MJB 19:39, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The quote does not however describe them as "constables" which is what the BTP and its predecessors are groups of. This is indirectly warned about on the web page http://www.met.police.uk/history/records.htm of the Metropolitan Police.
I think your additions are an elegant solution to the debate. Thanks.--MJB 07:41, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Reading between the lines of the references so far tripped over and adding what we already have it looks like the final (but unconfirmed) result might be that the Special Constables Act 1831 was used by railways to extend the disciplinary/protective function of the (previously not "constables") policemen beyond that of being mere caretakers (if/when they weren't controlling trains) confined to the boundaries of the railways. If so then there might be several effectively simultaneous claimants for the first railway constabulary dedicated specifically to law enforcement. There was an earlier Act in 1820 (according to http://www.policespecials.com/history/history.htm ) but their description suggests it was unlikely to have been used as a back-door method by railways and others to form their own constabularies. Possibly the J R Whitbread book has more detail in it but as it was published in 1961 I'm not expecting to walk into a library and find a copy staring at me. Regarding the frock coat worn by the signal/"police"men, this seems to have been a common mode of dress for assorted figures of authority so the wearing of it by both those persons and constables (or anyone who had a dual function) was possibly expected/natural.--MBRZ48 02:08, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Foundation

message: The statement that BTP does not investigate crime on any transport system it does not have a service agreement with , is incorrect. BTP does have a responsibility for investigating crime on heritage/preserved railways. I have included one link to a newpaper report on an incident in North Wales.--Pandaplodder 12:27, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Crime on Heritage Ralways 

message: The section on BTP Specials currently makes a claim that they have more powers than BTP regulars!  My reading of the law would dispute this.  As far as I am aware BTP specials have the same jurisdiction as BTP regulars and the recent ammendment to Specials jurisdiction only applies to Home Office (territorial) forces Special Constables.  Any BTP colleagues out there who can confirm this?
I have done some research and the assertion currently in this section that BTP Specials have more jurisdiction than BTP regulars is incorrect.  The recent ammendment to the law alligning Specials to have the same jurisdiction as regulars applies only to the Police Act 1996 i.e. Home Office forces.  BTP specials do not get their powers through this but BTP specific legislation as they are not a 'Home Office' force.  So the recent change to Home Office force Specials has not altered BTP Specials jurisdiction which remains exactly the same as BTP regulars.  I have changed the article accordingly. Dibble999 12:28, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  BTP Specials Jurisdiction 

message: The ref numbers don't seem to add up. Is there a straight forward reason for this in articles? --maxrspct ping me  10:43, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: reference organization

message: I've updated the section to read that Leeds Control Room has now closed. I am unsure as to whether Manchester and Glasgow for North Western and Scotland have closed as of yet, but the North Eastern area is now dealt with by Birmingham. BNC85 (talk) 09:39, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Leeds Control Room

message: I've just added the '+ern' suffixes to North East and North West as these are their official titles. BNC85 (talk) 13:07, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  '+ern' suffix for Area Names 

message: There are some significant differences between the different force areas.  In particular, the Scottish Area has the complication of a different legal system (which also affects things such as custody, case management etc).  I was wondering about writing a section to include this but was unsure what approach to take; should I just go ahead and create a section for (peculiarities of) the Scottish Area or should a section be created for each of the Force areas?  What does everyone think? Printedinuk (talk) 03:36, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  BTP Force Areas 

message: from reading the railways and transport safety act 2003, in conjunction with the transport and works act 1992, it appears that BTP constables have jurisdiction over any standard gauge railway. can we make a clearer distinction between where they can police and where they do police? ninety:one 15:27, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  jurisdiction 

message: Could somebody help by providing a PNG or SVG logo? In the meantime I am going to try and upload a non-free JPG logo. CrossHouses (talk) 08:56, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Logo 

message: As above, a BTP officer has conditional jurisdiction outside their force area (the railway), only if in uniform or with documentary evidence (warrant card), and only if they believe a crime has been committed or it's necessary to preserve life.
However, for Specials, there are the Schedule 2 amendments to the Police Act 2006 which say: "A special constable shall have all the powers and privileges of a constable throughout England and Wales and the adjacent United Kingdom waters."
Is there anything to suggest that this does not apply to BTP Specials? Is this still subject to the uniform/evidence/crime/life conditions above? Gerardtalk 19:10, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: A fanciful myth I'm afraid! The amendment wasn't drafted correctly - it should have read "A special constable appointed for a police area shall have all the powers and privileges of a constable throughout England and Wales and the adjacent United Kingdom waters". Nonetheless, it is quite clear that the intention of the amendment was to refer to territorial special constables, and any court would hold as such (see the explanatory notes). In theory, it could be argued that it extended to BTP & port police, but again, I don't think any court would ever put that construction on it. ninety:one   21:40, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  BTP Specials Jurisdiction 

message: I've updated the article with the new divisional structure (A, B, C & D Divisions) and their sub-divisions. BNC85 (talk) 10:36, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Post-2014 New Divisional Structure 

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message: The lead says 75% of funding for the BTP comes from the train operating companies whilst the funding section says 95%. Which is it? Stifle (talk) 14:45, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Cleared up, no source for the 75% claim so I've removed it and replaced with more general wording from a Government report. --07Alpha55 (talk) 20:59, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradiction 

message: According to the article BTP are only responsible for part of the Tyne and Wear Metro. That information has been in the article for years and never challenged. I can't see any online reference, and I've searched and searched, for references that confirm it. However social media posts from BTP and Northumbria Police of their activities on the Metro would seem to back it up. Can anyone identify a reliable sources that says who has jurisdiction of which part of the Metro network? 10mmsocket (talk) 16:53, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: If there's no source, I would be bold and chuck it. Mattdaviesfsic (talk) 16:57, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I know they are there - I see them when I'm back home, but of course can't prove it reliably, verifiably, etc. I have just reached out to the editor who added it in 2007 (he's still active!) Let's see what develops. 10mmsocket (talk) 17:02, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi everyone, hope you are well. I've taken a look and have found these two articles which reference Northumbria Police and BTP on "the Sunderland line": (a) https://www.nexus.org.uk/news/item/sunderland-metro-network-has-dedicated-police-force-very-dedicated-fact and (b) https://northumbria-pcc.gov.uk/kim-mcguinness-announces-metro-to-get-security-teams-on-the-majority-of-evening-train-services/. The latter states: “The security team will work alongside the dedicated police patrols we get from the Northumbria Force, and from the British Transport Police on the Sunderland line". I'll keep looking if more is needed! Cheers! Ben. BNC85 (talk) 17:09, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice one thanks. I had seen the Nexus article, just forgotten it. That at least confirms they operated on the Sunderland branch. The PCC article however brings that right up to date and confirms the division of jurisdiction - assuming I can find a definition of what the Sunderland branch or line actually means. If I can't find a list of stations then I'll just refer to it as "Sunderland branch". 10mmsocket (talk) 17:20, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: You're welcome! It's difficult to define - the Sunderland extension opened in 2002 running from Pelaw to South Hylton. The line is shared between T&W Metro and Network Rail between Pelaw and Sunderland, with sole T&W Metro running between Sunderland and South Hylton.  I think BTP cover between Pelaw and South Hylton, however I reckon 'Sunderland branch' may be easier to reference!  BNC85 (talk) 17:37, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: All done, thank you! Nothing more to see here. Move along please. 10mmsocket (talk) 06:45, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  T&W Metro jurisdiction