Talk:William Luther Pierce/Archive 1

message: Due to the sensitive nature of Dr. William Pierces political view there has been censorship on this topic of valid external links. 
* The current link to racialpride.com for a copy of the turner diaries does not work, and thus I suggest instead to include a working link: 
[http //www solargeneral.com/library/TurnerDiaries.pdf Text of The Turner Diaries]
Other external links which are valid and were censored include links to the online NV newsportal http //www nationalvanguard.org 
As well to the largest collection in the world of texts, essays, audio files and video produced by Dr. William Pierce on http //www solargeneral.com
I don't believe these links to be personal promotion, as Dr. Pierce is dead.
*If anyone's interested in learning more about the person who posted this, they might like to look here — the comment beginning: “It is clear that...”. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 21:25, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Broken links and external links

message: Edited article for greater accuracy. 
FYI:
Hillsboro, is only a PO Box mailing address.
Mill Point, is the actual place location.
Added link to News Articles written by Pierce
to References Section and to external links:
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/bsearch.php?author=Dr.%20William%20L.%20Pierce    News Articles written by Pierce
Added sources and facts about the SPLC "tax exempt"
mis-characterization of Pierce's Cosmotheism and of
"Who Rules America?" about claim of replacing elites:
Other criticisms have been harsher; for example, the Southern Poverty Law Center has often deliberately mis-characterized Pierce's religion of Cosmotheism as being "an unsuccessful tax dodge".
In fact, Pierce won from the IRS in court at least 60 acres of tax exempt status land for his Cosmotheist Community Church, out of the total 346 acres that he had owned in Mill Point, WV, near Hillsboro, WV, and of which the other portions of land were for both the National Alliance Political Organization HQ and for some other buildings, etc., and for his National Vanguard Books warehouse 
and office and their other buildings.
Source:
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:yx33CW_g_QoJ:www.adl.org/explosion_of_hate/history.asp+Tax+Exempt+Status+for+Cosmotheist+Community+Church+Land&hl=en
:What text in your attached link offers evidence that the SPLC's characterization of Pierce's organization is inaccurate (he asked, quixotically)? --Goethean 18:48, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: What evidence do you have that the SPLC's characterization is accurate? Roseblossom2 18:02, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

text: Your point seems to be that Pierce's church was a successful tax dodge. --Goethean 19:09, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

text: I would like to point out that, as is clear from  this link, 216.45.193.173 has deceptively edited his own words on this talk page in order to make them relevant to my subsequent reply. If the facts prove me wrong, then why did you feel the need to change your own words? --Goethean 19:25, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: That link didn't work. Hopefully this one does. --Goethean 19:28, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

text: This anon is clearly not a new user; his style is very reminiscent of other PoV pushers who have been blocked or banned in the past.  I think that we should ask someone to check into the IP address, and compare it to that of ex-users such as Dnagit. Mel Etitis  (Μελ Ετητης) 20:12, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It's User:Paul Vogel, whose year-long ban has just started again. If he'd been able to keep off Wikipedia, it'd be up by now ... - David Gerard 01:11, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

text: Yeah, cleaning up after Vogelisms can be a bit of work, since his stuff is of "shoot on sight" status. Sorry if I hit anything you'd added! - David Gerard 12:34, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't add any sources. They were all added by Vogel. In fact, I removed one that didnt seem relevant. --Goethean 13:10, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry — I must have misread the History. Mel Etitis  (Μελ Ετητης) 17:27, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edits by [[216.45.193.173]] 

message: It's been determined that 216.45.221.155 (talk · contributions) is in fact Paul Vogel.  I've banned 216.45.221.155 for an initial period of 24 hours until I can ascertain the proper procedure with an IP-address sockpuppet of a banned User. Mel Etitis  (Μελ Ετητης) 21:13, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: 216.45.221.155/Paul Vogel

message: The edits by , reverted by HOTR, and then reverted back to by , were made by a Stormfront (online site) user named "Val_Kyrie", and discussed in the Stormfront fora here.  Tomer TALK 23:51, August 21, 2005 (UTC)
:WTF??? What's all that about? Geoffrey C Vargo 23:31, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: article removed -Will Beback 01:27, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

text: It's not that hard. We neither damn Adolf Hitler nor bless Mother Theresa. As an encyclopedia we're not (or shouldn't be) defending anything, instead describing everything in a neutral tone. It's up to the readers to make judgements. -Will Beback 10:19, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edits by 203.49.136.105 

message: This is 100% FALSE this statement: (cosmotheism) is In effect it is a form of panentheism. 
The statement that cosmotheism is a form of panentheism is false. The idea behind cosmotheism is that the laws of physics enable an unconscious universe to evolve conscious life and that conscious life takes control of its own conscious to attain godhood. Man is thus seen as a bridge towards higher consciousness or God in a child-like form that needs to "grow up" in conscious evolution into godhood.
Why are there no links to the cosmotheism.net web site or to the national alliance web site?
----
Corrected pov errors and added the correct titles to those links.
See []
Understanding Cosmotheism?
Actually, Cosmotheism is a form of panentheism, as "GOD", is just another name for the impersonal force of the Cosmos, as a unifed whole, itself! That creative but impersonal FORCE of "GOD/Cosmos" is naturally inherent within all of the Cosmos as a Unified Whole.
See pantheism
The Cosmic and Biological Evolution that you mentioned 
within Cosmotheism are just two processes of the many 
creative but impersonal DIVINE FORCES of and inherent
to all of Nature and of and to all of the Cosmos. :D
See Evolution
----
Reverted pov edited article back to being an NPOV article below:
This is the NPOV article
See []
that has
been POV reverted or deleted or 
that was vandalized or "removed" 
by:
:article removed -Will Beback 01:27, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not that hard. We neither damn Adolf Hitler nor bless Mother Theresa. As an encyclopedia we're not (or shouldn't be) defending anything, instead describing everything in a neutral tone. It's up to the readers to make judgements. -Will Beback 10:19, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: False statements about Cosmotheism and a lack of understanding

message: One thing that puzzles me about Pierce is his higher education. The question that occurs to me is this: Since his field of study was physics, what were his feelings about Eienstein's impact upon said field? Eienstein himself was Jewish, so how could Pierce, being so fiercely anti-Semitic, obtain a PhD in a field which was partly dependent on the theories formulated by an eminent Jewish scientist? Geoffrey C Vargo 03:51, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not that hard. We neither damn Adolf Hitler nor bless Mother Theresa. As an encyclopedia we're not (or shouldn't be) defending anything, instead describing everything in a neutral tone. It's up to the readers to make judgements. -Will Beback 10:19, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pierce's Education 

message: Somebody please fix this discussion page, and ban the person who screwed up its continuity! Geoffrey C Vargo 06:13, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  WTF? 

message: Because of vandalisim on this and the National Alliance page, I locked them for the time being. Unlock at your discretion. 3D jonny 19:41, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalisim 

message: The following  text is from a commentary made by Pierce on Rockwell from a CD that contained a Rockwell speech. Some of this may be added later to the article.
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=152961&page=3
"I'm William Pierce. I first contacted George Lincoln Rockwell in 1964. At the time I was teaching physics at Oregon State University and I was beginning to wonder what in the world was going on as the turmoil and chaos known today as the civil rights revolution got under way.
I didn't quite know what to make of it when my Jewish colleagues would ask me to sign petitions demanding that the university hire black faculty members and recruit black students.
Then one day I saw a short television news segment of Rockwell trying to speak to a group of students at a university in California while Jews in the audience screamed at him and threw bottles and stones. I heard only about two sentences of Rockwell's speech, and then the Jews rushed on to the stage and ripped loose the cable from his microphone. That evening I hunted up Rockwell's address in the library and wrote him a letter.
Two years later our correspondence had grown in to full time collaboration on my first magazine, National Socialist World, and the year after that, Rockwell was gunned down by a hate crazed assassin.
In 1964, when our relationship began, Rockwell was a 46 year old publisher of a monthly newsletter he called The Rockwell Report and the leader of the American Nazi Party, a small group in Arlington, Virginia. In early 1966, shortly before I moved to Virginia and began publishing National Socialist World, he reorganized his group as the National Socialist White Peoples Party.
He had been a philosophy student at Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island before the Second World War. After war broke out in Europe he joined the Navy, became a naval aviator, and rose to the rank of commander.
After the war he studied art and then began a small advertising agency when he became concerned five or six years before I did about the growing influence of communist ideas and policies in America.
He associated himself briefly with various groups and individuals having a conservative, patriotic orientation. All of these were afraid to deal openly and forthrightly with the two issues that Rockwell soon came to realize were at the core of the problem: race and the Jews.
Anti-communism wasn't enough, he decided. One must attack not only the symptoms of the disease but its cause. One must expose the Jews as bearers of the Communist virus, and one must also understand that the great danger posed by the Jews is not that they generally favor leftist economic or social policies, but that they aim at destroying us through racial mixing.
By 1959 he had concluded that traditional conservatism was more of an impediment than an aid to the struggle against the Jews and he declared himself a National Socialist. Actually, he declared himself a Nazi, began wearing a uniform with a Swastika armband and greeted his followers with the Roman salute and a "Heil Hitler!"
This touch of Hollywood in Rockwell's approach to revolutionary politics always was a bone of contention between him and me. I argued that the uniforms, flags, and theatrical behavior, even the name "American Nazi Party", made it difficult for serious people to take him seriously. His medium got in the way of his message. He replied that if he put away the flags and armbands, wore a business suit, and shunned theatrics, the news media would ignore him and no one would hear what he had to say.
His aim, he said, was to make people pay attention to his simple core message of the need for rebuilding a White, Jew-free America based on the principles laid down by Adolf Hitler in Mein Kampf. When he had tried to present that message in a sober, serious way, no one had paid any attention to him. The newspapers and television stations wouldn't send reporters to his press conferences, they ignored his press releases, and the public didn't even know he existed but as soon as he raised the Swastika banner, the news media went crazy and swarmed all over him. He was seen on all the TV channels and what he said was reported in the newspapers.
Yes, I answered, the theatrics gets attention for you but your message gets badly distorted. The media try to make you look like a madman and a clown and to a large extent they succeed. The result is that most of the people attracted to you are losers, social outcasts, freaks. If you want to attract winners, serious, competent, idealistic people, you need a serious image.
Rockwell responded that it is the losers, the social outcasts, who make up the ranks of every revolutionary movement. They're the ones who are available, the ones who don't have anything to lose by becoming associated with a politically incorrect cause.
Individually they may not be very impressive but large numbers of them, organized and disciplined, would make a revolutionary army. He had tried appealing to what I called the winners, to the teachers and professors, to the doctors and lawyers and engineers, to the writers and artists, to the businessmen and the craftsmen, to his fellow military officers, to the careful, responsible men and women with steady employment and stable families, and he had found that while many of them agreed with him in principle, almost none had the moral courage to stand up and be counted among the righteous.
He had given speeches to groups of these people under the cover of several ostensibly conservative organizations. They would come up after his speeches, shake his hand, and tell him they admired him for saying what they also felt. But the merest suggestion from Rockwell to one of these people, that he ought to participate in an effort to take America back from the Jews and their collaborators would send the fellow scurrying away in fright. They were too comfortable, too corrupted by good living and materialism, too unaccustomed to taking risks and facing opposition. Only in the masses, Rockwell had finally concluded, were the recruits to be found that he needed to launch a political campaign to take America back and the masses could be reached only through the mass media.
I still had serious doubts as to whether the type of people Rockwell was attracting with his flamboyant tactics could be disciplined and used to build an effective organization and these doubts made me hold back from a whole-hearted support of his efforts. We collaborated on the publishing of National Socialist World and we continued to argue about other things. I gradually found out, however, that Rockwell was dead right about the moral cowardice and the servile conventionality of the great majority of Americans. Most of them would rather lose an arm and a leg than be suspected of thinking a politically incorrect thought and as I worked and argued with Rockwell, my appreciation of his own courage and idealism grew. 
He was a man with several talents anyone of which could have earned a comfortable living for him, but he was also one of those rare individuals who is wholly in contact with reality, who wholly identifies with the world around him and who, therefore, is incapable of ignoring what he recognizes as wrong. To Rockwell, evil must be opposed; good must be upheld. To pretend that the world is other than it is was self-defeating. To lie about it or to try to fool others about it was unthinkable. Once his eyes were open to the Jews and what their policies were doing to america, there was no question of keeping his mouth shut and going on about his business. He had to speak out against them. He had to fight them. He would fight them anywhere, anytime, under any conditions, no matter what the odds and he would fight them with all the strength of his being. I'm sure that if there had been just a thousand men like Rockwell in America in 1966, we'd be living in a healthy, progressive, all White America today. 
Like all of us, Rockwell had shortcomings, of course. He was sometimes mistaken in his facts. He thought Pablo Picasso was a Jew for example. He sometimes misjudged character in people. He had a tendency to oversimplify things and I'm convinced, more than ever, that both his theatrical tactics and his strategy of trying to persuade the masses before recruiting an elite cadre and building a strong infrastructure were unsound.
His evaluations of the basic moral health of America and of the intelligence and character of the American people were far too optimistic. He really believed in 1966 that the Jews and their collaborators could be beaten by 1972. His optimism fueled his activity and he eagerly sought opportunities to carry his message to anyone who would listen.
He spoke at many schools during the last two years of his life and we are fortunate to have a complete recording of a speech he gave at Brown University in the spring of 1966. The speech you will hear now will give you at least a sample of George Lincoln Rockwell's message and at the same time it should give you some idea of the flavor and style of the man."
67.72.98.45 02:22, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pierce on George Lincoln Rockwell