Talk:Marko Mesić (soldier)

message: This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 23:31, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: WikiProject class rating

message: The Wanderer:
I appreciate your efforts and am glad to see you do now believe Mesic lived to 1982 unlike the version pushed by internet sources you trusted before. Information you present is very well arranged (far above my skills) but sadly you stil insist on outdated largely wrong poorly researched single source(s).
1 All info I wrote is latest verifiable info from HDA published new book and is very well referenced.
For example info on Mesic's post Stalingrad days (you again removed) in Russian captivity and Yugoslav Army is from HDA 1561. SDS RSUP Dosje Marka Mesica br. 308865 ............ surely a verifiable resource?
2 All you write is mainly from dated book now shown to be wrong.
3 Some details about formation in Russia and action of Yugoslav brigade against Germans are by escaped former legionaires Danijel Pelko, Kuzma Jelenčić and Hajrudin Dizdar -(NDH) MINORS Command, Personal department 19750 dated 1.4.1945.
4 There is a secret instruction by NDH military in Slavonski Brod dated 7.4.1945. with detailed instructions how to handle escaped former legionaires now in 'Jugoslavenska legija' regarding their possible pro soviet 'boljševički' background.
5 Most partisan Yugoslav Army details are from book by Đuro Lončarević Specijalna Misija arranged by Ivan Matović Beograd 1991 pages 85-91 For example Loncarevic claims over 238 former legionaires now partisans were 'proven by JA secret services to be' NKVD collaborators.
6 More JA details are from Istorijat I brigade formirane u SSSR, I deo ..... by stariji vodnik Vrgović Stevan
For example you insist on totally wrong 100 survivors of the 369th after Paulus surrendered. Truth is last days there were some 100 combat soldiers holding Russians on their last stand 200m long battlefield line. Your sources forget artillery unit and command/support/transport strength at Stalingradskaja flight school. The last ever Luftwaffe land and take off flight from the 'Kessel' was night 22 to 23.1.1943. when last group of wounded Croat legionaires and their military diary flew out. For example they even had a Varazdin military band with them ....... some musicians flew out in January ..... Col. Mesic stated this during his interrogation in 1948 that on 29th (or 30th) of Jan 1943 15 officers and some 700 men surrendered to general Vasiljev. SDS RSUP Dosje Marka Mesica br. 308865
7 Surviving 429 (from 700 alive in January 1943) legionaires were joined by 381 LPZ legionaires (not in Stalingrad) captured with their Italian comrades so there were 810 legionaires alive in December 1943.
8 Mesic was removed from command 18.11.1944. in Belgrade together with Marijan Prišlin and other legionaire officers. Some were shot as 'Gestapo' moles. ....... ' Historija artileriskog diviziona I. jugoslavenske brigade formirane u SSSRu od zapovjednika potporučnika Ivana Zgonca HDA 1573
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/related/axis_allies/croatia_main.htm site you use as reference is dated and wrong on many points ..... for example Podobnik made it out of Stalingrad alive before surrender but was later KIA during 1944 in Croatia .... so was highly decorated lt. Bakarec ..... Reports by Pavelic's personal assistant col. Sabljak who spent 3+ weeks in the 'kessel' are very detailed .......... so are original reports in HDA by 'the last nightime flight out 22/23.1.43.' lt. Rudolf Baričević.
You seem to be interested in the subject......... using dated unverified info available on the net........there is so much more ........ I would have to rewrite Pojic's book with his sourced referenced info. I do suggest you read Croatian State Archives Milan Pojic's book (2007) and article in Jutarnji List to see how dated and wrong is your version of Mesic's biography. Jergovic's article is very well written and is largely based on Pojic's book and his own research in HDA.
There was too much misinformation (especially internet based anti Croat propaganda) published over the years about many circles of hell these men had to descend through ...... try and read the book and reconsider.
:Hello. I don't doubt some of your claims, but you need to reference them better. The whole thing seems somewhat farfetched. Man leaves Royal Yugoslav Army, joins Croatian forces in legionnaire unit to fight Soviets, after imprisonment joins Soviets who attach him to Yugoslav Partisan unit, then is finally accused by Yugoslav authorities of being a Soviet spy? While Kosutic's book may not be a definitive authority on this issue, it does have a reliable claim by Mesic's brother that he lost his legs escaping from Yugoslav officials.
:If you want to prove some of the claims which do not sync up with what are usually accurate sources, please provide citations from Pojic's collection of the HDA info (while you may have personal access to the HDA, any info which is unpublished is not verifiable). These usually take the form of:  Author. Title. Publisher. Place, Year. (Page). You could even provide me with the page numbers for the info (chiefly the info which contradicts the other sources - we don't need references for absolutely everything), and I could insert the citations myself. I'd like to be of more help, but I don't have access to the book or the archives (I'm on the wrong side of the Atlantic).--Thewanderer (talk) 00:00, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: 369th Reinforced Infantry Regiment already exists. Also, if you're the same user (I can't really be sure, since you're anonymous), the Pojic references require page numbers. If you're interested in further contribution, I'd recommend you register yourself on Wikipedia. Cheers.--Thewanderer (talk) 15:45, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments by [[User:83.131.74.185|83.131.74.185]] on article

message: This webpage is listed as a reference and an external link. That's generally not necessary, so I'll be removing it as an EL, but I notice that the link title in the EL section says that it has "incomplete/erroneous text about 369th." Well, I'll say! It says Mesić was executed by the Soviets in 1947. His tombstone says 1982 clearly enough, and other sources support that. I'd recommend not using this source again, and probably trying to replace it. This is large enough an error to make me doubt the whole source. --BDD (talk) 20:00, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Having read more of the article, it looks like the Germany army thought he was dead, perhaps presumed executed by the Soviets. So perhaps the webpage is working from erroneous primary source documents. I'm still wary though. --BDD (talk) 21:57, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Unreliable source?