Talk:Cloud feedback

message: In the article it claims "clouds emit infrared radiation back to the surface, and so exert a warming effect". Is there a reliable source for this? Intuitively one must question the statement's validity, aren't cloudy days generally cooler than sunny ones?--Damorbel (talk) 19:08, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Aren't cloudy nights generally warmer than clear ones? -Atmoz (talk) 19:39, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

text: (ec) Any intro textbook will do -- Ahrens, Aguado and Burt, etc. Your statement mixes up short- and long-wave radiation.  A better example is that cloudy nights don't cool off as much as clear ones. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 19:42, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The point is that the main heat input is during the day, is an invalid argument to introduce clear nightime, you should only compare like with like. You are surely aware that cloudy nights are generally colder than cloudy days, even if cloudy nights are not so cold as clear ones. I do not have links to your authors, can you provide a reliable source please?--Damorbel (talk) 20:23, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It's cited in the text of the article. It's in Aguado and Burt. It's in Ahrens. And if books aren't good enough for you, it's also in Ramanathan (1987) (among many other papers). -Atmoz (talk) 21:01, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps it is a misunderstanding but I wasn't referring to the radiation budget as in your link Ramanathan (1987). You do not need a satellite to observe the effect I am referring to, it is simple common experience and discussion of it should have a place in the article, don't you think? --Damorbel (talk) 21:54, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That article addresses your initial post. It is a reliable source that says that "clouds emit infrared radiation back to the surface, and so exert a warming effect". As is the paper cited in the article, as are the two books linked above. If you have a point, make it quickly or I'll assume you're just trolling again. -Atmoz (talk) 21:57, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Yes he does. Did you read the paper? -Atmoz (talk) 07:37, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm calling Rule 5. Everybody out of the pool. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 14:06, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cloud Feedback 

message: I've now merged the "cloud forcing" article to here. I've put the content under "mechanisms" for now. I don't know enough about the topic to take the next steps of cleaning up, removing repetition or alike. Hoping that someone else has time and energy for this. Should be an important topic. EMsmile (talk) 07:38, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Interestingly, the glossary of the IPCC Six Assessment report WG 1 does not mention "cloud forcing" but does mention "cloud feedback". Is that a sign that "cloud forcing" is no longer a key term that is being used? EMsmile (talk) 23:37, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Support merge (after a skim read - but as I know little I might be convinced otherwise) Chidgk1 (talk) 18:02, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

text: Support merge. While they aren't the same thing (cloud forcing is a consistent part of the climate system, and cloud feedback describes a change which is occurring to it over time), this particular article is in a very bad state (nearly all the references are from 1990s) and it has little potential for expansion. Nowadays, it's the feedback which matters the most to readers, so cleaned-up material from here would help to provide them with context on the feedback article. InformationToKnowledge (talk) 06:45, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merged "cloud forcing" article to here 

message: I asked Kevin Trenberth what he thought of this article. He briefly wrote back saying "I did quickly skim it and it is a difficult unsolved issue.  The article says why: all the complexity of albedo, expanse, cloud top height, etc all affect how much radiation is reflected and how much radiated in IR. The CMIP6 models had revisions and all were astray.  No model does this well yet.  A lot relates to microphysics.
This paper is good:
Raghuraman, S. P., Medeiros, B., & Gettelman, A. (2024). Observational quantification of tropical high cloud changes and feedbacks. Journal of Geophysical Research: Atmospheres, 129, e2023JD039364. https://doi.org/10.1029/2023JD039364
Maybe someone has time to look into this further some time. Would be great. EMsmile (talk) 08:49, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reviewer's feedback