Talk:Japanophilia

message: "Various cultures and peoples have gone through various periods of Japanophilia, for various reasons, throughout history. "
I'd delete this piece of fatuous tripe myself, but that would require me logging in and it's not worth the keystrokes.
However, substitute anything you like in place of Japanophilia, and amazingly, it will also be true.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.249.71.254 (talk) 23:28, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unintentional comedy 

message: ;Article moved, Japanophile → Japanophilia
I oppose the move.  Japanophilia is a dubious name for the article. Japanophile is more commonly used. Also, the cited dictionary source ("Webster Unabridged, 2002") has an entry for "Japanophile" but has no mention of "Japanophilia". "Japanophile" gets more Google counts, and is used more often, qualifying it as the article name per WP:NC.  Please discuss and get consensus first, before making such a move.--Endroit (talk) 23:27, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dubious 

message: Two the "dubious" notices are against things that are exactly as written in the sources.  As such, I've taken them out.  Several of the arguments above are clearly based upon not even reading any of the sources.  Because if one had, one would have seen that Japanophilia is what they discuss.  For goodness' sake, please knuckle down and actually read the sources that are cited, all of you!  Jonathan de Boyne Pollard (talk) 01:04, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Faux dubiousness 

message: Does Allison [page number?] mean to imply that "youth across the globe" previously admired Japan's corporate practices and economic success"? If not, what's she on about?
This is the one good question asked so far.  And my answer is that I think that she does.  She's the source that underpins what the article says about American children taking Japanese language classes, and she talks about a "fascinating shift" in children's attitudes since WW2, encompassing the 1980s' economic bubble.  As for what the page number is:  It's in the citation.  As well as reading the sources, please read the citations, too. Jonathan de Boyne Pollard (talk) 01:10, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 
The result of the discussion was no consensus to move. —Angr If you've written a quality article... 11:20, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Allison 

message: :Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *Support or *Oppose, then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.
*Oppose — Japanophile is more commonly used (although the article is about BOTH "Japanophile" AND "Japanophilia"). Also, the cited dictionary source ("Webster Unabridged, 2002") has an entry for "Japanophile" but has no mention of "Japanophilia". "Japanophile" gets more Google counts, and is used more often, qualifying it as the appropriate article name per WP:NC.--Endroit (talk) 04:00, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: Lafcadio Hearn is a terrible example as to what most people think of when the word Japanophile or otaku come to mind. Lafcadio Hearn was actually interested in Japan for reasons pertaining to their culture, history, and language. Japanophiles are obsessed only with anime. 199.117.69.8 (talk) 18:14, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Terrible example 

message: Weeaboo redirects to Japanophile, but there isn't anything in the article that explains why. 66.81.104.96 (talk) 19:54, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Weeaboo 

message: A person who is obsessed with Japanese culture to the point where it becomes annoying is sometimes referred to as a "Japanofile", written with an "f". In addition, there is a podcast known as "The Japanofiles" (also spelled with an "f") in which foreign residents in Japan discuss Japanese culture as well as their own Japan-related experiences. 
Samtoodle (talk) 03:55, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible Disambigulation / Clarification: 

message: Please find a reliable source supporting any of the following text:
* However, to be accused as a Japanophile is regarded as highly offensive in East Asia.[citation needed] This was mainly because of the inhumane Japanese war crimes committed on the colonies during the early 20th Century and the Second World War.[citation needed]
See Wikipedia:Source on what Wikipedia says about "reliable sources".
In particular, the words "highly offensive in East Asia" implies they are highly offensive today in all of China, Korea, AND Japan.  We will need a reliable source implying this.--Endroit (talk) 05:01, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: This was posted a month ago and no one added any sources, so I'm taking the iniative and removing it. A Werewolf (talk) 04:48, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

text: Well, one aspect is chinilpa, a term used in a derogatory sense in Korea, according to our article. I do agree, however, that the original statement was way too sweeping and broad, and in my experience inaccurate. TomorrowTime (talk) 16:54, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  However, to be accused as a Japanophile is regarded as highly offensive in East Asia... 

message: Is the term Nipponophile synonomas with Japanophile?  And should the article mention that?
Wikitionary has an article of both (Japanophile Nipponophile) but neither give which is more correct nor do they even link to one another. 63.224.159.60 (talk) 23:56, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Japanophile/Nipponophile 

message: "There has since been considerable interest in Japanese popular culture across much of the Western world, particularly the anime and manga fandom, contributing to the further development of a Japanophile perspective in American teens in particular."
Why is that? It was and still is equally popular all over Europe. I find this claim quite ignorant, regardless of my personal experience that most Europeans develop an interest much more serious than Americans do. Besides, the information/claims about "modern Japanophilia" is very scarce and shallow. Someone really has to extend this article, I think -- it is a very interesting subject, after all. --Laughing Vampire (talk) 12:49, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Particularity of American teens 

message: Until a few minutes ago, when I moved it here (as suggested by Nihonjoe), the article had the following section:
===21st century===
In the early 2000s, words meaning Japanophile have acquired more derogatory connotations. The term Wapanese (or Wannabe Japanese) first came out in 2002 as a racial slur used to describe a white person who is obsessed with Japanese culture, which includes manga, hentai and anime. The term Weeaboo, or Weeb later came from a comic strip created by Nicholas Gurewitch in which the term had no meaning other than it was unpleasant thing. According to an unpublished MA thesis, 4chan quickly picked up the word, and applied it in an abusive way to the already existing Wapanese term. It is debatable whether Weeaboo has the same meaning as the Japanese term otaku (people with obsessive interests). In a blog post on Anime News Network, Justin Sevakis gives a difference between the two, saying that there is nothing wrong with loving Japanese culture. He points out that a person only becomes a weeabo when they start to be obnoxious, immature, and ignorant about the culture they love.
(This is after some tweaking by me; possibly I corrupted something in what I'd intended as a slight improvement.)
The source "Am I a weeaboo? What does weeaboo mean anyway?" seems a hazily written essay. It draws a lot on "Weeaboo" at Knowyourmeme, which I find clearer; however, this does not seem a reliable source. "Nobody loves the weeaboo" may be well informed for all I know, but it's a windy blog posting. "Japanese animation in America and its fans" got its author an MA from a non-negligible university and thus seems the most substantial of the sources; but WP:RS says "Masters dissertations and theses are considered reliable only if they can be shown to have had significant scholarly influence".
Is this section supposed to be about Japanophiles, these terms for particular kinds of Japanophiles, or both? Whichever, if there's something substantial to relate, it has to be based on sources more impressive than the three used here. -- Hoary (talk) 23:49, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: The sources are poor, through I am not sure if the section's removal is totally justified; I'd rather suggest that the content can stay, unless it is challenged. It could probably be rewritten and re-referenced with better sources, I found  through Google Scholar, a tool that the author of the recent revision who added most of the sources should check out (ping User:Knowledgekid87, ). Google Books is also worth checking, I see a few sources there as well; all more reliable then bloggish-essayish websites. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 06:00, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sad that it appears difficult to find sources for this, as the idea of "Japanophile" seems more alive than ever these days. I only really came by here to note that I was confused "Weaboo" redirected here and the article only discusses pre-WWI content. I hope someone can figure this out. ~Mable (chat) 21:08, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I feel it should be included as well, but the problem as you said is the lack of sourcing. If it is a non-notable neologism though then yeah I wouldn't mind it not being included. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 23:27, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Removal is not the answer. Not only is weeaboo a legitimate (though perhaps unfortunate) pop culture term, the page itself still redirects here, but is now left without context. This source explores contemporary Japanophilia in some detail, though I'm reserved as to its reliability (anyone can publish on Google Books). Satellizer el Bridget (Talk) 12:43, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  21st century 

message: There is a dispute between myself and another editor regarding the opening sentence for the 21st century. Here is how it currently reads verses how I feel it should read below it:
:In the early 2000s, derogatory slang terms were created to demean those who appreciated the Japanese popular culture, but those terms are often misused and considered invalid.
:In the early 2000s, derogatory slang terms were created to demean those who appreciate Japanese popular culture.
The word "appreciated" is dated, and shouldn't be used for words that continue to be used. Where it says "but those terms are often misused" it doesn't say by whom anywhere after that (WP:WEASEL). I also don't see what terms are implied by saying "those terms", are we talking about the word "Otaku", "weeaboo", or "Wapanese" two of them of all three? Next, if a term is derogatory then it is meant to be abused. This is like saying I "misused" the word nigger, you cant just misuse a demeaning word. My suggestion is to create a lead that doesn't go into too much detail as the details are already laid out after that. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 22:16, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, the wording editorializes too much. An encyclopedia shouldn't prescribe how words are used (especially if it's an editor's own opinion), but rather clearly attribute views to reliable sources. "Considered invalid" by who? Who says they are being "misused"? Lastly, it shouldn't emphasize this perspective as consensus unless it actually is. If reliable sources are really saying these things, the article doesn't support it. Opencooper (talk) 22:55, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that the lead shoudn't go into too much detail, but it is valid to point out that the word weeaboo is heavily misused in the terms that it is frequently used against people who love the Japanese culture but are not "obnoxious, immature, and ignorant about the culture they love", as stated in the article. Using the example that you gave by the derogatory term nigger, it is really unusual for a white or east asian person to be called a nigger, but is is very common for a person who is just someone who likes the Japanese culture to be called a weeaboo, regardless if he meets the quoted charateristics to be called as one. I think that this particular phrase should be rewritten, but we should note somewhere else in this section of the article about the aspect of heavy misuse of the weeaboo term. - Cilinhosan1 (talk) 00:35, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: The closest I came to was with this sentence: "It is debatable whether weeaboo has the same meaning as the Japanese term otaku (people with obsessive interests) as weeaboo has been used as a blanket term that implies a connection." I chose to place the info there as the following bits gives a difference between the two different terms. We shouldn't use the wording "misused" as weeaboo is an insult thrown at someone based purely on their own opinion of the other person. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 00:43, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that the phrase should stay as "In the early 2000s, derogatory slang terms were created to demean those who appreciate Japanese popular culture.", and we should discuss later about how we should tackle the issue of the misuse of the weeaboo word, and use "It is debatable whether weeaboo has the same meaning as the Japanese term otaku (people with obsessive interests) as weeaboo has been used as a blanket term that implies a connection.", until we find a better alternative to this. - Cilinhosan1 (talk) 13:48, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I am going to go ahead and revert the edit now, I want to add that as I said this is based on opinions. Is the word weeaboo misused? In my opinion, yes it is but to others it may not be. All we can do is provide the info from reliable sources which compare the two words Otaku and Weeaboo and have the reader decide for themselves. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 13:53, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Wording dispute

message: This article seems to encompass two related, but distinct social phenomena:
* Japanophile: a non-Japanese with an intense and holistic interest in Japan, its people, culture, and history. Aesthetic, philosophical, economic, and ideological principles are often important components.
* Weeaboo/weeb: a non-Japanese whose interest in Japan is limited to or revolves around its pop/consumer culture, similar to otaku in Japan. Also like "otaku" (and unlike "Japanophile"), the terms "weeaboo" or "weeb" can be used pejoratively depending on the context. They also have origins and reception histories that are distinct from that of Japanophilia. 
According to WP:CONSPLIT, splitting might be worth considering at this point. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 23:02, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Splitting Japanophile from weaboo/weeb?