Talk:Francesco Borromini

message: Can someone translate the italian on his Epitaph? Blahm 02:23, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Epitaph

message: He's not technically born in Tessin as the canton of Tessin/Ticino is a XIXth century creation (1803 to be precise) nor in Switzerland. So he's born in the "baliaggi ultramontani" (in italian), or the "Ennetbergische Vogteien" (in German), or the "baillages italiens" (in French) that can be translated into "the Bailiwicks Beyond the Mountains" in English. 81.62.101.24 09:26, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This argumentation is in fact very technical. It is true that the Ticino did not exist as an independent canton at the time. However, the name "Ticino" certainly predates Borromini. It is derived from the Ticino River that crosses the area. At the time of Borrominis birth the Lands of the Ticino were definitively part of the trans-alpine dominion of the Swiss Confederation. That’s why they were called “the Bailiwicks Beyond the Mountains”. 128.240.229.67 (talk) 22:24, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Italy did not exist at his time, so it cannot have Italian nationality. Coccodrillo (talk) 08:01, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: If we should abide to that "rule", the same goes for Cola di Rienzo, Petrarch, Dante Alighieri, Gian Lorenzo Bernini, and many, many others. Is there some particular reason for excluding Francesco Borromini from being an Italian? Antique Rose — Drop me a line 05:26, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: While all the people you cited lived in what is now Italy, and probably always saw themselves as Italians, italian-speaking Swiss and Sammarinese don't. According the rule of language, Reinhold Messner should be German or Austrian instead of Italian, Barack Obama would be British, Fidel Castro would be Spanish and so on. Coccodrillo (talk) 07:59, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

text: Personally, I'd remove the nationality field from the infobox. He was an architect from Ticino, this is all we need to know in the introduction. I don't think there was a Swiss nationality at the time and he had no Italian nationality. IMHO infoboxes should contain easily verifiable facts such as the birthplace and date and not hypothetical informations. mgeo talk 17:39, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: That's true, the concept of "nationality" is more recent (at least in the sense of citizenship used in Wikipedia). Coccodrillo (talk) 18:08, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

text: I agree on that. But Is till don't agree in writing only "Ticino" in the field "born in". For example, on the article Pope Alexander VII in this filed it is written "Siena, Grand Duchy of Tuscany". Francesco Borromini was born when Bissone was bailiwick of the Old Swiss Confederacy, so I think it should be noted. Coccodrillo (talk) 18:19, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure, I have no objection to that (I don't think Ticino was a sovereign state at the time, unlike Geneva at the time of Rousseau). We should probably do the same for the place of death for consistency. mgeo talk 20:24, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Hallo, I added Borromini's ethnicity in the lead, per WP:OPENPARA. The discussion above is a typical example of the confusion which arises when the two concepts of ethnicity and nationality are not understood. Before Italy's unification in 1861, the concept of "Italian" (like that of "German" before 1870) was purely ethnical. Borromini was born as a subject of 12 swiss cantons (NOT of the Confederation), in what at that time was technically a possession of those cantons in Italy: the "Italia Svizzera", as it was defined, not "Svizzera Italiana", which is a concept born with 1803. So he was as much Italian as Gian Lorenzo Bernini, who was born in the same period in a city (Naples) that at that time was an Italian possession of Spain (the "Italia Spagnola"). Mentioning his ethnicity is necessary in the lead, since Borromini became as artist part of Italy's culture and art history. Moreover, he left his home village as a child, and all his work took place in Italy. Mentioning his birth region (today's Ticino) in the lead is also crucial, since he came from a region (the Lombard lake region) which since the time of the Maestri Comacini gave birth to countless artists. Alex2006 (talk) 05:49, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

text: For me too, as per above. "Swiss" is an anachronism. Alex2006 (talk) 16:49, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Born in...

message: In the episode of Simon Schama's Power of Art the episode for Bernini also has some excellent info, naturally, about Borromini. I don't know whether there is anyplace in this article for mentioning that series. If those of you who take care of this article think it merits a mention please add it with thanks. If you don't that is fine too. I just wanted to make you aware of it. Thanks for your time in looking at this. MarnetteD | Talk 21:02, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Possible info for the article