Talk:Zheng He/Archive 1

message: The big problem with this paragraph is that it completely ignores the fact that the ban on maritime
commerce was temporary and largely lifted by the end of the Ming dynasty.
Also the late sentence is very controversial.  It *was* the conventional wisdom in the 1950's and
1960's, but there are a number of authors (namely Kenneth Pommeranz "The Great Divergence" and 
"The World That Trade Created" and Joanna Wayley-Cohen "The Sextants of Beijing")  who would argue 
that it is total nonsense, and I think that general Western opinion tends more toward that last 
statement being false than true.  Certainly the "of course" is unwarranted.
::Although private networks of Chinese traders continued to be active in Southeast Asia the governmental ban on ocean going shipping had an incredibly large impact on the future development of China. The most immediate effect was to move all such trading underground, and effectively make all those engaged in such activity into smugglers. From there many smugglers morphed into piracy. Although many of these so-called Waku (wokou) pirates were Japanese, one of the most notorious of the Waku named Wang Chih was from Anhuei province in China. Directly demonstrating the link between banned trade, smuggling and piracy Wang Chih was also one of the largest traders in East Asia, moving goods between Japan, China and Siam. By the middle of the 16th century pirate raids on coastal cities were so widespread that the Ming passed an edict moving millions of people off the coast to inland regions depopulating the coast line from Shandong to Guangdong to a depth of 60 miles. Even that did not deter the pirates who then raided further inland. In the 1550's, the pirate raids were particularly severe culminating in the 1555 raid on Nanjing more than 200 miles inland on the Yangzi river. The Ming having disbanded the navy were simply powerless to stop the attacks. Not until the end of the 16th century was the military reorganized in a fashion sufficient to reduce the frequency of attacks to a manageable level. The long run reaction by both the Ming and later the Qing to these events was to further control and limit the spread of trade and contact with foreigners, which of course was to directly lead to the economic and political crises of the 19th century.
Roadrunner 07:41, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: In a way it is true, but the thing is - the decline in maritime commerce and the supposed imperial decree against it was one of the reasons why the dynasty ended his explorationsKennethtennyson 03:28, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Zheng He & Haijin Sea Ban

message: There is much irrelevant material about the theories of the decline of maritime commerce (and whether it even happened) on this page. This really has little to do with Zheng He.
:In a way it is true, but the thing is - the decline in maritime commerce and the supposed imperial decree against it was one of the reasons why the dynasty ended his explorationsKennethtennyson 03:28, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Too much irrelevant material about trade

message: Jack:Did he ever go to america?
=== because no one says Z He actually got there! ===
While I don't disagree with this assertion, Zhou Man and Gavin Menezes are still in the category "Pre-Columbian trans-oceanic contact" and it's very inconsistent to place those two there and this not.  Either put them all in or take them all out.  --ColourBurst 21:01, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: America

message: While I don't disagree with this assertion, Zhou Man and Gavin Menezes are still in the category "Pre-Columbian trans-oceanic contact" and it's very inconsistent to place those two there and this not.  Either put them all in or take them all out.  --ColourBurst 21:01, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  because no one says Z He actually got there! 

message: There appears to be some controversy about the true identity and status of Hang Li Po. Her surname certainly does not seem conducive to the theory that she was a daughter of the Emperor, and she apparently does not appear in any Chinese chronicle of the period. On the other hand, almost every detail of Zheng He's missions was diligently erased from the Chinese records by the anti-eunuch faction that followed this period. Anyone know anything about this issue? Adhib 16:57, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: According to page Hang Li Po, she was the great grandaughter of the Chinese Emperor Yung Lo of the Ming Dynasty. Are you sure there is no evidence? What kind of "official archives" are you referring to? __earth 15:06, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Hang Li Po

message: According to the Guinness Book of World Record, the largest sailing ship ever built was France II, in 1911.
It measured 415 feet [146m] long and 56 feet [17m] wide.  It had 5 masts, and it was of steel.
The question is: Do we possess the technology to build a 9 masts wooden ship that measures 400 feet by 160 feet?
Can we today manufacture such a wooden ship and make it seaworthy? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.35.35.34 (talk) 09:11, 21 July 2005
* Actually, one of those ships has been rebuilt or is in the process of being rebuilt. There is a great web page with lots of Flash if I remember right, but I forgot the URL. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.151.153.187 (talk) 18:02, 15 September 2005
Actually, Zheng He's larger treasure ships were up to 600 feet, longer than the France 2. -- — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.16.18.76 (talk) 20:11, 20 August 2006
The Treasure ship actual measurement was not known. The measurements found in the history book are not confirmed — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.156.6.54 (talk) 12:05, 5 November 2005
Go to this PBS's Nova http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sultan/explorers2.html
and http://www.cronab.demon.co.uk/china.htm
Takima 17:57, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "Treasure ships", used by the commander of the fleet and his deputies (nine-masted, about 120 meters (400 ft) long and 50 m (160 ft) wide). 
The above informations cannot be taken for real. Sometimes back, I watched a solid documentary by the Chinese experts. They said that the actual measurements of the "Treasure Ships" does not have a confirmation length todate. Please edit this article. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by CommonHeroes (talk • contribs) 02:04, 24 November 2005
=== The comparison pic ===
That dinosaur vs. mammal pic does not reflect accurately the true proportions of the respective ships, even if we ignore for a moment that the size of Zheng He's treasure ships is largely speculation anyway. See For example, the Jan Adkins 1993 illustration below shows a mast comparable to the world record carbon fiber mast of Mirabella V, built in 2004.  As it is wrong (it appeared in a veritable Sinocentric pamphlet) I take it out. Gun Powder Ma 23:42, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Size of the Ships

message: That dinosaur vs. mammal pic does not reflect accurately the true proportions of the respective ships, even if we ignore for a moment that the size of Zheng He's treasure ships is largely speculation anyway. See For example, the Jan Adkins 1993 illustration below shows a mast comparable to the world record carbon fiber mast of Mirabella V, built in 2004.  As it is wrong (it appeared in a veritable Sinocentric pamphlet) I take it out. Gun Powder Ma 23:42, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The comparison pic 

message: The article treats the sizes as given facts and does not reflect at all the fact that all these numbers are pure specultion. In fact, by any measure we have, the size of the ships, particularly of the Treasures ships, must be blown out of proportion. See Largest wooden ships. Gun Powder Ma 00:55, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Size of the ships 

message: Why no mention in the article of when and why Zheng He became a eunuch?Benami 11:25, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: D'oh! Never mind... Benami 23:25, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eunuch 

message: Are there any sources for the information in this section?  And can we rename that and the preceeding section?  --- Hong Qi Gong 15:06, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Zheng He's missions from his Islamic viewpoint

message: The intro paragraph states Zheng He's lifespan was "(1371–1433)", but in later paragraphs his year of death is stated as 1434:
"...Zheng He had already successfully established the foundations of the Hui religion Islam. After his death in 1434..."
"...In Malaysia today, many people believe it was admiral Zheng He (died 1434)..."
To make things even more confusing, he is listed under the "Deaths" section of the 1435 wiki, and this source  also states his death as 1435.
So which year is correct?
Rodan44 05:44, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Year of Death?

message: I've started an approach that may apply to Wikipedia's Core Biography articles: creating a branching list page based on in popular culture information.  I started that last year while I raised Joan of Arc to featured article when I created Cultural depictions of Joan of Arc, which has become a featured list.  Recently I also created Cultural depictions of Alexander the Great out of material that had been deleted from the biography article.  Since cultural references sometimes get deleted without discussion, I'd like to suggest this approach as a model for the editors here.  Regards, Durova 18:47, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Cultural depictions of Zheng He]] 

message: what does it mean, "he sailed the Rebecca"? it's said twice, for Zheng He and Menzies. I do not understand. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Voidvector (talk • contribs) 17:47, 1 November 2006
: it was vandalism. --Voidvector 22:47, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism

message: Substituted at 21:04, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment