Talk:Stʼatʼimc

message: For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all  infoboxes. Comments may be left on the Ethnic groups talk page. Ling.Nut 21:15, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "related groups" info removed from infobox 

message: It's late but wanted to jot down some stuff I'll try to get to, at least at stub level.  This page needs a Government/s section, mirroring contents on the Lillooet Tribal Council page (where St'at'imc Nation redirects, and agencies like the Stl'atl'imx Tribal Police and Upper St'at'imc Language Authority (it may be Upper St'at'imc Language and Culture Authority, but I can't remember though that seems unwieldy); the Canadian law enforcement categories deserve some overlap with aboriginal categories; not sure how much information there is but at least Aboriginal law enforcement or something of some title might be an article, if there's not enough for particular agencies; I know Wiki's not supposed to be a directory so that's why I thought of individual articles; maybe there's not enough history for any one group or ogranizatoin, except in certain cases; it's the general existence of native law enforcxmeent agencdies that seems worth an article overall, but I wouldn't know where to start to look up dates of creation and rules/agreements involved, education and governane and so on) there's also individual First Nations-run schools; these could simply be named on their respective band and community pages; but I know there's an equivalent representation for "white government"-run schools (List of Canadian residential schools (or to be specific, List of Canadian First Nations residential schools points in a whole important direction; especially because some, like Alert Bay and Mission/St. Mary's, survive as native culture institutions (U'mista and T'oti:ihl'tet respectively and don't hold me to the spelling on the second one, even if it's in my home town.  I know, it's all who puts what in, but like I said these are notes for later, either for myself when I have the time or for someone who finds something worth undertaking and wants to write them.  The police agencies are all evolutions, IMO, ofr the post-Oka experience; the Seton Portage incident is covered, and Gustafsen Lake more or less (if contentiously), but not the Green Mountain blockade in the same period on the way to Apex from Penticton, and so on; no doubt there's a Mohawk Warrior Society article by now...or not?  OK, g'nite.....Skookum1 (talk) 07:45, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  notes for later; needed articles 

message: Please see this on the CFD talklpage.Skookum1 (talk) 16:43, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Diacriticals in FN catnames

message: Could someone check the pronunciations? I assume they were supposed to be English, and tried converting them, but have no way of knowing if I got them right. — kwami (talk) 01:33, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure which ones you mean; some of the spellings given are in St'at'imcets orthography, which differs from ours on various counts, even though it looks like the same characters (look at hte category name, it's got the full diacriticals, but it's not a system shared by any other language, though I think the Secwepemctsin system is similar or it's the basis of the St'at'imcets/Van Eijk one.  Even without them some words/names like Tslalh and Ohin look one way, sound quite different (Ohin - ooxwin, with that first oo maybe more like an o, but not).  SFAIK there's no St'at'imcets linguist kicking around here, might not hurt to ask at Talk:St'at'imcets.  Skookum1 (talk) 07:10, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I meant the IPA. — kwami (talk) 09:09, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: You might try here at least for someone to write to, to have those IPAs checked/cofirmed, or there might be resources on that site giving the pronunciation.  my contact name at USLCES is Marilyn Napoleon, don't know if she still works there though....Skookum1 (talk) 20:38, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  pronunciations 

message: Been there a long time, it's seems to be "St'at'imcets' per the van Eijk orthography, though I don't know what that [c] is supposed to be, true.......where's this come from for a people name?  Citation?Skookum1 (talk) 08:09, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  where'd this come from? = Sƛ’aƛ’imxǝc 

message: This ain't right - /ˈlɪluːɛt/ - it's no an "oo" sound at all, it's "oh", whatever the IPA is for that; short, yes, but not "ooh" at all.Skookum1 (talk) 08:11, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Where'd that IPA come from anyone?  Ethnologue?  A local source?  Disdain for locals is already evident in the RM, but it's questionable to me that IPAs aren't cited.....as predicted the IPA specialist presiding doesn't know how this name is pronounced, despite making the silly claim that it's "English".  True enough that "oo" might be heard from people looking at it who've never been there, and it may be somewhere between a schwa and an "oh", but /u/ while you do hear it, isn't how it's said locally.  An -ette stress on the last syllable you do hear, in a sort of old-fashioned kind of way, though.Skookum1 (talk) 08:17, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The Lillooet, British Columbia page has the correct IPA - /ˈlɪloʊ.ɛt/.Skookum1 (talk) 08:19, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: You know, when you find an error, it *is* possible to post a correction without throwing a tantrum.  — kwami (talk) 05:07, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: You know, it is possible for you to admit mistakes without being patronizing and attacking the person pointing them out.Skookum1 (talk) 05:15, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I normally do.  But your tantrum has been going on for nearly a week, and it's getting tiresome.  — kwami (talk) 05:17, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: YOU calling my detailed responses a "tantrum" is what's tiresome, and just more insults and snottiness from someone who moved all these pages without consultation and with obvious disdain for other peoples, and for the peoples described themselves.  Give it a rest, troll.  WP:Crow pie.Skookum1 (talk) 07:02, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Your reaction to a mistake in the transcription is uncalled for, as is your apparent disdain for linguists, just cos kwami happens to be one. — Lfdder (talk) 11:52, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not uncalled-for at all, given all the stink he's been making about pronunciation and how this name is "obvious" in pronunciation based on his assumptions about romanizations used for aboriginal names, of which this is one.  I challenged him to pronounce it, like everything else I've posted he ignored the request....it was him who was making a big stink about pronunciation, but he doesn't even know them himself......nor anything about these peoples other than what he reads in ilnguistics.  I have great respect for linguists...those who respect others that is.  Kwami gives no respect, and deserves none on matters like this when he can't admit a mistake and still has to use it as an occasion to pretend to some kind of intellectual authority on these matters.  He's not.  And if this is to be treated as "an English word" as he claimed, then he should have known how to pronounce it first if it's so "obvious".  And actually, though it's OR, I'm going to ask my 20 or 30 friends in Lillooet, who are online in a history group, native and non-native, to record themselves and their friends saying both "Lillooet" and "St'at'imc", and since they use the other names like Nlaka'pamux and Secwepemc will get them to give those a whirl too......as noted before, the vowel is somewhere between a brief "oh" and a schwa; but with a schwa there's a Lill-uh-wet effect, don't know what the IPA is for the [w] sound so didn't bother amending it yet; it's my hometown, I pronounce it regularly.......and depending on cadence in a phrase, the vowel may vary....but it's never "oo" certainly not a strong "oo" if at all; when people do try to say it that way, often newcomers, they tend to make a second stress on the last syllable i.e. Lill-oo-ETTE, almost as a primary stressed syllable rather than on the first as per normal, but that's not correct; on old maps for Mt Currie (Lil'wat) you'll see Liluet-ol but that's not an IPA "u", that's an "uh"....and the -ol is "things pertaining to" like Skwxwu7mesh-ullh but I don't know the St'at'imcets spelling for that ending at the moment; think it's just -ulh but will check.  "Lillooet" has too many meanings which is one reason it has fallen into disuse for the people as a whole; the dialect in Van Eijk is the Fountain dialect (Cacli'p) and is very different from what's spoken in Mt Currie and the Lower Lillooet River, so his title is more than a bit ironic.  Skookum1 (talk) 12:15, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

text: What's the /ɪ/....is it like "ih" or more like the dotless Turkish "i"...I'll make a few recordings of myself and ask a few people tonight to donate some for review; OR yes, but this by way of trying to figure out the most suitable IPA ... and variants maybe; one old frontier-era attempt to "anglicize" the name was the poetic "Littlewhite"....interestingly the name now used by what had been the Lillooet Indian Band is T'itq'et (and no, I don't have those apostrophes in the right place; the older transliteration, the one that uses Stl'atl'imx, has that as Tlitlikt or Tl'itl'kt, something like that.....point is it means "white" as in the colour, referring to a particular cutbank's rock/clay colour. A "joke" folksy pronunciation, similar to what you'd hear for Cache Creek (Cash Crick) or Williams Lake (Billy's Puddle) is "Lillywet", usually used ironically or in reference to an "only in Lillooet" kind of matter going on.....mock names like that are somewhat common in BC; old-timers might refer to the Chilcotin is Chill-cOOten (interestingly close to the indigenous pronunciation of "Tsilhqot'in", natural enough since rancher English is very much the same arena as aboriginal English....in an area where most of the cowboys are Indians...Squamish is "Squeamish" or "Squish", the latter especially suitable because of the incredible raininess of the place (rainier than Lions Bay or even Whistler, in fact, which is amazing).Skookum1 (talk) 14:09, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, it's an en transcription so it can't be the Turkish dotless i. It's like the i in wit. Do you mean it's like in wet?  Your replies are always so long I feel bad for not having nearly as enough to say in return. lol — Lfdder (talk) 15:32, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Lfdder, you are NOT being cute, so far you have insulted several editors who have, in good faith, been trying to get these pronunciations correct, and in return, you address their sincere efforts by making flippant and snarky comments.  Knock it off, please.  Montanabw(talk) 18:36, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: That wasn't an insult. What are you talking about? Did you think I was doubting his pronunciation or something? You've replied to me 3 times in total, and 3 times in total you've not made a tiny bit of sense. — Lfdder (talk) 18:40, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: That was the fourth, the other three times you called me "high."  That too is an insult.  You might not "think" you are insulting people but you are.  What you said to Skookumq was insulting and condescending. Get a clue. Montanabw(talk) 23:59, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Jaysus. — Lfdder (talk) 00:03, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  IPA is wrong 

message: Substituted at 05:16, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment