Talk:Chinese fire drill

message: Probably not important, but would chinese whispers be another example for the list of 20th Century British-isms that use "Chinese" in a slightly derogatory way?  I've always found that expression odd, anyway.  In America we just call that game "Telephone".  --Nomenclaturist (talk) 03:37, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: British Use of "Chinese [blank]" as a Slur

message: - Not sure how old this expression is, but I have heard people use this to refer to the chaotic gift exchange game wherein each person at a party, upon being called up to select a "secret Santa" gift, is given a choice between either selecting an unopened gift from a pile of gifts, or of taking a gift that has already been opened away from another participant.  If the person makes the later choice, then the person who had their gift taken away from them becomes next in line to make the same choice (unopened gift from pile vs. previously opened gift from another participant), with the exception that they cannot take back the very same gift that was just taken from them. Etc.
While this term immediately struck me as racially insensitive, those I have questioned about it hadn't even stopped to consider that it might be rooted in racism.  Instead the term was tossed about as freely as one might toss about "Dutch Treat" these days, though that term, too, has its roots in a early British slur against the then-perceived stinginess of the Dutch.
As for "Indian Giver", which is mentioned by someone else in this discussion, it's my understanding that it stems from a lack of understanding by early American settlers of the practice among some "Indian" tribes of always returning any gift received with an even greater gift, or else risk insulting the original gift giver.  Thus, to the early settlers, an "Indian Giver" was not one who took a gift back that they had previously given, but rather, was one who gave a gift with the expectation that they would not only receive a gift in return, but that the gift they received would be of greater value than the one they gave.
:This may not be all that rare. There's been a fracas here several timezones away about a traditional confectionary with a name that generously translates as Negro's Kiss. It predates the offensive use of the term and as far as I know, which isn't very far, most people either aren't bothered because no offensive intent was meant or haven't thought about it at all - it's just a name. --Kizor 10:10, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Chinese Gift Exchange

message: The link to www.thedigeratipeninsula.org.uk contains self-referential and unverified information dealing with the origin of the term, and definitely isn't encyclopedia-grade. I won't remove it now, but it would be nice to be able to credit a more authoratative piece on the subject. 24.76.183.115 06:33, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link 

message: Isn't this term considered racist, those silly people racing around but accomplishing nothing?  Ortolan88
:I think the origin of it is.  I am not sure what the racism is, whether it is what you say or not.  I do know that now we just do Chinese fire drills without thought about its history.  That is, it is not racist for most people *now*. -- Ram-Man
:I also think it's racist by todays standards of civil respect. I think an informative addition of that concept might be apropos. If you are trying to infer that this article should not exist, because the term is racist, I would say that's a bit narrow minded. It's not the duty of Wikipedia to eradicate racism. It is, however, it's obligation to describe it. Consider those people who are ignorant to the english speaking cultures of the world, perhaps even chinese people -- they should have the opportunity to learn about this euphamism in an informative and unbiased platform like Wikipedia. jgreat
:: Sorry, but whether "you" think about its history or not, it most certainly is racist and demeaning.David de Paoli
:::Well that is an interesting debate.  It may even be related to the debate over the word "nigger", which I am not about to start here.  What I am saying is not a point of view.  It is simply the fact that people today take the term just as a label not really as too deep a meaning.  Sure it is racist (no one yet has shown conclusively that it is, but we all suspect it) and that should be put in the encyclopedia entry as well.  But be sure to put all of this in. -- Ram-Man
I'm sure the poster meant no offense, but the term is racist because it perpetuates a negative stereotype about Chinese people.  What next?  "Mexican standoff", two duellists shooting at the ceiling?  Ortolan88
::: I'm sure you're right. Although it, and others like it, might be included in an entry entitled "Derogatory Stereotypical Ethnic References and Adages" or something like that. Such a subject might be educational in that it clearly reveals the racist origins of these sayings.David de Paoli
It'd probably fit better under an article that deals with this stuff more realistically - i.e., "oversensitivity on the part of minorities regarding long-standing colloquialisms." Maybe you could start it. 24.99.231.40 20:58, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Racist? 

message: In traditional Chinese, the word 'Chinese' sounds more like 'choong wuh duh'.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.218.93.150 (talk) 16:16, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: really?

message: The encyclopedia is meant to educate.  If people can't see the racism in "Chinese fire drill" then the article should point it out, as in the "Saturday night special article".  Same goes for swear words, "Although considered by many offensive, this word ... "
This has made me think about "Indian giver".  It could mean, if an Indian gives you a gift, he is likely to take it back, but it might also refer to the custom of potlatch, where guests receive all the gifts, or it might refer to the way white people have treated Indians.  In any case, an article on Indian giver would have to take all of that into account.  
By the way, implying that only older people use Chinese fire drill as a racist term while young people are innocent, what's up with that?  Ortolan88
:I've used the term Chinese Fire Drill many times without thinking about its origin.  I am not saying that *all* old or young people think a certain way.  But there was an important historical reason for putting down the Chinese in the 1960s.  With the persecution of the Chinese surrounding some events such as the attack Pearl Harbor, this fits into that.  These days I would argue that children in general are *far* less racist than their parent's generation.  So they simply don't mean anything racist by the term and would not think of it as such.  Of course it *is* a racist term.  No one is denying that. -- Ram-Man
:"the persecution of the Chinese surrounding some events such as the attack Pearl Harbor"? You are aware that it was the Japanese-Americans that were persecuted during WWII, and that the US at that time was allied with China, right? --178.201.95.34 (talk) 20:42, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Education 

message: There's a fine line between "educating" and propagandizing. Is the Wikipedia supposed to assert that racism is wrong? How about religious bigotry? How about indifference to other people's problems in general? I don't think it's the mission of Wikipedia to educate. It should just provide an accurate reference to knowledge.
On the other hand, if you'd like to join me in building an educational wiki... --Ed Poor
: " It should just provide an accurate reference to knowledge." Exactly. And the sayings we're discussing are offensive to some and rooted in racism. The subject is not whether racism is wrong or not.  It is not surprising to note, however, that persons who are *not* the targets of these slurs are the ones most militantly ready to use extreme or preposterous examples in order to discredit those who are offended by them.David de Paoli
True. Wikipedia itself is neutral. The negativity against racism is imagined: All things cause a reaction. To make it neutral, the blatant negativity is countered with speech of equal, yet opposite, strength. 
Besides, humans are biased. We just try to remove the humanity.--Oreichalcos (talk) 01:19, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Propaganda? 

message: Some people in the U.S. use the term Chinese fire drill to refer to a driver changing over one or more lanes too fast.[3]
In Texas, an immediate move from far-left lane to exit ramp is what we call the San Antonio Lane Change, but I doubt that term is used widely enough to be put on Wikipedia.  Usually it's Hispanics driving a 4-door car that execute the move. -Rolypolyman 00:01, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lane change 

message: I noticed the term "Chinese Ace" in this article described simply as an inept pilot.  Just wanted to throw in that according to my Air Force experience, a normal (or American) "Ace" is someone who has shot down at least 5 other aircraft, or has similarly scored 5 "kills".  A "Chinese Ace", on the other hand, is someone who has either been shot down 5 times, who has crashed his own plane 5 times, or has ejected 5 times.  
It is not hard to find pilots who have crashed or ejected once or even twice, but it takes a particular level of skill to repeat such events and maintain "alive" status.  Obviously, such a pilot could readily be considered "inept" as the article states, but I believe has achieved a particular level of ineptness and luck that warrants a special title:  Chinese Ace.
As so many other readers have accurately pointed out, it's extremely racist and of course inaccurate, but I'm just relaying how I've heard the term used.  
I don't know how to make the changes to the wikipedia, and frankly, I'm too lazy to learn.  So, anyone can feel free to copy what I've written or just ignore it.
70.169.53.69 (talk) 17:26, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Chinese Ace" Reference 

message: The last sentence of the introductory paragraph states: "Today, kids often perform this at bus stops on their way to or from school by running out of the bus running around it 3 or 4 times and coming back in to their original seats."
This, to me, sounds absurd. I know that where I live children are not allowed to leave the bus except in emergencies, and that this would be extremely difficult as there is only one accessible exit. Njk92 (talk) 05:21, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I remember doing it in a car on the way to school, which was about 15 years ago. I can't imagine this happening on a school bus. I'll remove. Johnnyt471 (talk) 22:38, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

text: Also, I wasn't sure if the dispute tag was referencing this sentence or the entire paragraph, so I left it in. Johnnyt471 (talk) 22:40, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: This is original research but, when I was in junior high school in the 1980s in the US, we had school bus drivers who were high school students, something typical until around that time.  Needless to say, judgement wasn't great all around and many drivers were lax on discipline. On the last day of school, some drivers would take long circuitous routes to school punctuated by Chinese fire drills at stoplights.  All the students on the bus would jump out of the back of the bus through the emergency exit and run around to the (regular) front door and re-enter.  All of this while waiting at a red light on a regular suburban 4-lane street.  This is probably one of many reasons why the pratice of having student bus drivers has disappeared. 68.48.20.74 (talk) 07:07, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chinese fire drills in school buses 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The opening of the main paragraph bothers me: "The term goes back to the early 1900s, and is alleged to have originated..." If you follow the link referenced for this, it's just some guy writing it on a web page. Yet the author here states as fact that "the term goes back to the early 1900s." This is really just continuing a rumor. There is no knowledge of the authenticity of this account. This kind of thing makes me trust WP less and less over time. 2600:1702:4380:5FA0:A43A:19A6:6EB:2990 (talk) 04:27, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. This reference and the entire section about it being from a British ship with a Chinese crew is highly skeptical. It should be removed. This is similar to origin stories about the F word or Sh-t being acronyms. 75.149.128.121 (talk) 20:31, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: Not moved. Per the discussion below  estar8806 (talk) ★ 12:43, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Chinese fire drill →  – "Fire drill" as a figurative term particularly for corporate chaos is still common, but these days almost always without the "Chinese" part: example.  Of course the history should still be covered in the article. Jpatokal (talk) 04:38, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 24 August 2023