Talk:Republic of Ireland/Archive 3

message: Hi there,
Due to the duplication of countries in both EU and Europe footers, I created a new Template:European_countries_not_in_EU for those European countries not in the EU. This need only be put on pages which have the EU footer - other european countries should probably stick with Europe footer.
Before I change all other EU country pages (I've only changed UK and Ireland), I'm just looking to see if there's any major objections?
Zoney 21:28, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Discussion at Template talk:EU countries Zoney 23:35, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Europe footer 

message: Why does it say '3rd place' for GDP.  Even if this is correct in some context, both lists of GDP maintained on wiki, the list of countries by GDP (nominal) and the list of countries by GDP (PPP) place it at 32 and 47 respectively. --Paraphelion 10:35, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  GDP? 

message: Under a reform of local government initiated by Noel Dempsey the only name for city or incorporated towns' governments, Corporations was replaced. Many Irish incoporated towns now describe themselves as boroughs. Personally I think Dempsey's renaming was a bit of pointless historical vandalism - the needless wiping out of ancient city government names. But then the Fianna Fáil-PD government's contempt for Irish heritage is no secret, as evidenced by the decision to run a motorway through the unique and internationally renouned Tara-Skyrne valley when the road could have been built around it. (Curious how some FF-leaning property developers just happen to own property on the chosen route. 5000 years of history can be sacrified to make money from developers who are household names in the tribunals and are big money doners to Fianna Fáil!)
As evidence of the change in name from Corporation to Borough Council, see
*  Borough Council 
*  Borough Council
*  Borough Council
*  Sligo Borough Council
Under the Local Government Act, 2001
Section: Establishment, titles and administrative areas of local authorities and consequential provisions.
	11.—(1) On and from the establishment day and for the purposes of local government, the areas referred to in section 10 shall each have a local authority as provided for in this section.
  (b) The local authority for each of the towns set out in Schedule 6 shall be known by the name of the town followed by the words—
(i) in the case of a town set out in Chapter 1 of Part 1 of that Schedule,  "Borough Council"  and
(ii) in any other case, "Town Council",
     and references in this Act to "town council" shall be construed accordingly.
QED. FearÉIREANN 19:13, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Boroughs 

message: i've changed back the change by Cantus where he replaced the word 'deleted' by 'eliminated'. Articles removed from constitutions are described as deleted not eliminated. I also reworded the lines on the absence of abortion in Ireland to give it the accurate context. The previous wording was inaccurate and not exactly NPOV. I've used exact terms and also qualified the quote of a line from the relevant article to make it clear that the paragraph takes neither a pro-choice or pro-life stance but just explains what happened - ie, a constitutional amendment, judicial interpretation of the constitutional amendment, failure of the Oireachtas to legislate for that judicial ruling, and subsequent amendments. FearÉIREANN 23:20, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Demographics - constitutional amendment re Catholicism 

message: I removed Herminie T. Kavanagh and Lord Dunsany from the list of writers in the culture section.  No offence to these writers, but if we're to add names to this summary list of Irish writers there are at least a dozen others that would have a stronger claim, e.g. Bram Stoker, Flann O'Brien, William Trevor, John Banville, Colm Tóibín, Louis McNeice to name just a few off the top of my head. It's only  a summary list, and seems to cover what most people would consider the "giants", so I don't think any additions are necessary.  --Ryano 14:58, 2 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of writers in culture section 

message: i looked at the world gdp/cap list and the irish are right behind the yanks in gdp/cap. i never knew the irish were so rich. does anyone know what method irish use to make so much money? i always thought the japanese were richer than irish.
:While stereotypically seen as slightly backward and rural, the truth is that the Irish economy has grown enormously in the last 10-15 years.  Net emigration has been replaced by net immigration.  Richness is relative though, as the cost of living, the cost of land/houses, commuting times, etc have all soared too. Due to the recent and rapid growth, the national communications and transport infrastructure are not as developed as the position in richness league tables would lead one to expect.  There are arguments over whether GDP or GNP is a better way of measuring this, and one (can never remember which) is skewed by the amount of US corporations that have invested here and report their profits here before repatriating the actual profit.  I suppose you could see Economy of the Republic of Ireland for more info. jlang 23:35, 22 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  irish gdp 

message: Can I propose the following revision?
:The Republic of Ireland (Irish: Poblacht na hÉireann) is the officially-designated "description" of Ireland (Irish: Éire), an independent state which covers approximately five-sixths of the island of Ireland, off the coast of north-west Europe. ~ Dpr 4 July 2005 04:27 (UTC)
::I would support that, as including the official name as well as the description in the first sentence of the article. I do, though, dislike the use both here and in what we have at present of quotation marks around the word description, as if there is something so called or faintly not-quite-true about the term. The Republic of Ireland Act does not use any quotation marks:
:::2.—Dearbhaítear leis seo gur Poblacht na hÉireann is gnéthuairisc ar an Stát.
:::2.—It is hereby declared that the description of the State shall be the Republic of Ireland.
::Part of the problem, perhaps, is the rather wishy-washy nature of the word description. The Irish word used in the Act, gnéthuairisc, is more precise, literally meaning "form-account". In other words, Poblacht na hÉireann / Republic of Ireland are the terms to be used to indicate the form and nature of the state named Éire / Ireland by the Constitution.
::My slightly amended proposal is therefore:
:::The Republic of Ireland (Irish: Poblacht na hÉireann) is the legally designated description of Ireland (Irish: Éire), an independent state which covers approximately five-sixths of the island of Ireland, off the coast of north-west Europe. -- Picapica 10:28, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Opening paragraph/names

message: Why is this sentence For an explanation of often confusing terms like Ulster, (Republic of) Ireland, (Great) Britain and United Kingdom see British Isles (terminology) on the page.Should it not be left on the Ireland page?--Play Brian Moore 15:53, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: To me it makes sense to have it on both pages - a reader might have come to the Republic of Ireland article looking for just such an explanation. --Ryano 21:13, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly, this is an encyclopaedia. Should be kept on both pages. --81.79.128.56 07:28, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: No, I think this clarification should be kept on both pages. This helps the casual reader who may be entering imprecise terms or just performing casual research. --195.251.204.42 10:04, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: the fact that someone would specifically search for Republic of Ireland means they clearly understand the difference between 'Ireland' and the 'Republic'.So I think it should be left on the Ireland page only.--Play Brian Moore 16:05, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

text: Try searching for only Republic Ireland - this clarification is needed on both pages. Strengthens the encyclopedia. --Me or a Robin 16:28, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: But I specifically said Republic of Ireland.It is pointless having it there.I can understand having it on the Ireland page but not on this page.Republic of Ireland is too specific a search for links like this.Anyone agree?--Play Brian Moore 17:55, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with leaving it on the Ireland page.That makes sense but if someone specifically writes Republic of Ireland then they are clearly not looking for anything else.So if any one else has an opinion could we hear it please.--Play Brian Moore 22:34, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

text: Not everybody who arrives at this page will have specifically searched for "Republic of Ireland". Many will come to the page by following a series of links. This information is important for readers and should be left in place. As you say, let's hear from others on this issue. --Me or a Robin 17:31, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opening 

message: I didn't understand much out of this phrase:
:However, through the lack of an effective command structure by its opponents, the anti-treaty IRA, and IRA units' defensive stand through out the war, Collins and his commanders were able to build up an army which was able to overwhelm them on the battlefield.
--Zimbricchio 21:27, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Have to agree with that Zimbricchio, but feel free to edit it to make more sense. Regards. --Meiers Twins 17:27, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

text: Much more readable now, thanks Robert. --Meiers Twins 07:18, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Other

message: where does the popultion figure of 4,130,000 come from, it's 4,015,676 (July 2005 est.) according to the cia factbook did it realy jump 100,000 in a month? Fabhcún 17:47, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Should we be using estimates from external sources, it is perhaps more appropriate to cite official censuses and reports of national agencies? We should not quote external sources merely because they are larger (and often not authoritive). Djegan 19:10, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: There is a space for estimates in the table so I think that we should provide one I went back and checked who made the increase in population and it was an anon with no reason. I am going to change back to the old figure as it has a source (and it's the source most of the estimates are from). Fabhcún 12:16, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Population 

message: Seeing as how they were lifted almost word for word from the CIA website  I thought it would be a good idea to reword Wiki's paragraphs.
:Agree with your changes, good work. --Me or a Robin 10:01, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rewording first two paragraphs of "Economy" 

message: "The erroneous egoistical policy of large landowners caused famine in 1845-1847 in which 1.5 million Irish died, followed by enormous emigration. "
This sounds terribly POV to me, as well as being a huge simplification and incorrect. To that end, I'm amending the wording. Fergananim 02:42, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Good god! Who wrote such rubbish??? Well spotted. Delete it. FearÉIREANN\(caint) 02:12, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: POV?

message: Their has being some recent changes in the article regarding just how compulsory or not its (Irish language) teaching is in schools. My understanding has that the compulsory teaching of the language is only in schools that recieve public money (with a few exemptions for returning expats/learning disabilities). In particular the State cannot set compulsory minimum standards in education that would be enforcable in a court of law because of the wording of the Irish constitution, and that this would extend to Irish. Any takers. Djegan 19:31, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: If your school really receives no state money (most private schools have their teachers paid for by the state), then it is almost certainly a "grind school" whose purpose is to prepare students for the Leaving Cert, a state run examination.  One of the requirements for obtaining the Leaving Cert is a pass grade in Irish (except in the case of exemption), which is probably why you are being "compelled" to take the course. --Ryano 11:01, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Their is no requirement to obtain a pass grade in Irish in the leaving certificate, in order to recieve the certificate itself, and certainly this has being the case since 1973. The dark days of an automatic fail in the leaving certificate because one failed Irish are long gone. Studying it, bar exemption, is still a requirement however; this, like all things, may change. Djegan 21:23, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

text: In addition to the above (those recieving public money) Irish is compulsory in schools recognised by the Minister for Education (with regard for exemptions), but beyond these two cases their is no such thing as "compulsory" Irish. The state can insist on what it wants in schools it pays for or decides to recognise but beyond this compulsion is certainly by consensus and not the law. Djegan 01:14, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Education in Irish language

message: "Excuse my ignorance, but is it not the word "Eireann" that translates to English as "Ireland"? What is the origin of the word "Eire"? (08/04/2005 Unkempt Hair"
Apparently the name is derived from a people known to the Greeks as the Iverni and to themselves as Érainn. They took their name from their ancestor Goddess or tribal deity, Ériu. They were spread all over the coastal regions of what is now Munster, and further inland. Regional nations (i.e., the Kingdom of Osraige, dynastys (i.e., Éoganacht and lower-class groups or peoples (Attacotti, the Dessi) were either known to be or most probably of Érainn descent.
As these were the peoples Greek and later Roman merchants came in contact with in the centuries B.C., their name came to be applied to the whole island. Fergananim 21:51, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Origin of Eireann, Eire, Ireland (see above)