Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ice Hockey/Archive6

message: Hello boys and girls. As some of you may know, the WikiProject on biographies is trying to classify the existing biography articles in terms of quality of the articles and importance of the subject (see Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography/Assessment#Quality_scale for details). You may have noted the  template appearing on talk pages of some articles on your watchlist. I don't believe that any hockey bio should get the Top importance status as even the Great One has had very limited impact outside the hockey world and is pretty much unknown outside the handful of countries that play hockey. But there should be a few High importance ("Must have had a large impact in their main discipline, across a couple of generations. Had some impact outside their country of origin". Gretzky is already rated as a "high importance" bio) and mid importance ("Important in their discipline.") and this is where I think you all could help. For instance what would you all consider as the twenty or so most significant figures in hockey history? Of course, there are a few unquestionnable candidates like Wayne Gretzky, Maurice Richard, Bobby Orr but I'm also interested in having a few names from the coaches, and builders which have had significant impact. Thanks for your help. Pascal.Tesson 15:42, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hm.  In addition to your list, I'd include the following players in High: Jacques Plante, Clint Benedict, Newsy Lalonde, Eddie Shore, Bobby Hull and Gordie Howe; players who've permanently shaped the game and whose impact goes well beyond the scoresheet and record books.  (I can't think of any active player who might be worthy of that list other than Hasek.)  For builders, I would have Frank Patrick, Frank Calder, Art Ross, Clarence Campbell and Mickey Ion, and that's about it. RGTraynor 03:49, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Mmm, Belfour would have to be a "Mid" at best; all he is is one of the most prominent NHL goalies of the last two decades.  He's not even the best goalie of that time (I doubt many would rate him over Hasek, Roy and Brodeur, at least), and he hasn't done anything of which I've heard to revolutionize the practice of goaltending for hockey at large.  IMHO, the only goalies in history to whom that applies are Plante and Benedict.  RGTraynor 01:03, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

text: I like the idea of assessing hockey articles on importance to this project and the hockey world in general. Perhaps we could implement this and include it in WP:HOCKEY template? Does anyone else think this would be a good idea? CptUnconscious 22:19, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think it's a great idea, this way it's easier too get working on hockey related articles beeing fetured on Wikipedia main page. --Krm500 22:48, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Biography assessments 

message: I've noticed that Tomas Kaberle's page has a "Scouting Report" section which is essentially all POV statements about him. Should I simply remove this section and merge any relevant information into the Playing Career section? And should I do this with any similar pages I find? Also is it possible to get rid of that god awful "Czech national team at the 2006 ice hockey world championships" template? It's very useless, large and unattractive. CptUnconscious 14:53, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In a couple words, yes and yes. Blast any POV you find, and if you want to list the template on WP:TFD I would vote for its deletion. BoojiBoy 15:06, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd remove it. If you come across other questionable text run a sentence or two through google to see if it got lifted. I couldn't find this material specifically, but occasionally someone will copy & paste from sites like hockeysfuture.com ccwaters 15:07, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

text: That horrid template has been nominated for deletion (see Wikipedia:Templates for deletion#Template:Czech ice hockey team at WCH 2006). And I fixed the Kaberle page. CptUnconscious 21:33, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks much better.  I read the scouting report in the history, and frankly, it read like a copyvio.  Nice rewrite of the article. Resolute 22:47, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, I just redid Matt Stajan and yesterday I did Pavel Kubina too. It's frustrating to see so much POV drivel in these articles. CptUnconscious 14:13, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is precicely why I tend to avoid biographies of individuals.  It is far easier to remain npov with team articles.  Even teams I hate. Resolute 05:46, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Scouting Reports

message: I finally finished the last provincial list of hockey teams (thanks to those who have been making corrections and additions, btw!), however in doing the Quebec page, I came across both Quebec HC and Quebec Bulldogs.  Near as I can tell, these articles are referring to the same franchise.  Anyone with a greater understanding of the history of 19th century hockey care to confirm before I change Quebec HC into a redirect to Quebec Bulldogs? Resolute 17:15, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, they were.  RGTraynor 22:54, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The article should have been deleted then turned into a redirect. But it's no big deal i guess. Masterhatch 03:45, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Quebec HC]] vs [[Quebec Bulldogs]]

message: Another one to watch... this guy is pushing POV mainly in CHL articles - see  for one example. Here's another:  I've added warning templates and have been debating on the guy's talk page, but I'd appreciate it if you guys (particularly you administrator guys) could keep an eye out as well. If he keeps it up I'll report it. BoojiBoy 20:03, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have reported him at WP:AIV as he has not responded to warnings. Please keep an eye out. BoojiBoy 20:44, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  {{userlinks|70.27.141.201}} 

message: Just updated the Frölunda HC article and just wanted too get some neutral pov comments on the article. What more should be there and what shouldn't be there. I know that the text hasn't been formatted yet but I'll get to that in a short while. You can see on the discussion page what's next in line, some of which is done but not yet uploaded. --Krm500 12:29, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comments on article 

message: There should a very brief mentioning of the relationship requested article has to Wikiproject Ice hockey. For example: Allan Bester (goalkeeper) or Mike Kelly (hockey) (coach & executive). This would help get the research process underway, and prevent ambiguity if any. Flibirigit 12:32, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested articles list 

message: I understand that some of the categories for IHL teams (ex: :Category:Grand Rapids Griffins (IHL) players, :Category:Peoria Rivermen (IHL) players) require the (IHL) designation in them, because there are active AHL teams with those same names.  I also understand the reasoning behind :Category:Phoenix Roadrunners (IHL) players, as there was a WHA team with the same name.  In other categories, however, I feel the (IHL) part of the name is unnecessay.  I propose these categories (and possibly more I have missed) have their names changed, with the (IHL) removed: :Category:Cincinnati Cyclones (IHL) players, :Category:Indianapolis Ice (IHL) players, :Category:Kalamazoo Wings (IHL) players, :Category:Long Beach Ice Dogs (IHL) players, :Category:Salt Lake Golden Eagles (IHL) players, :Category:San Diego Gulls (IHL) players.  I see that the reasoning behind the (IHL) in these categories is that these team names have been used in other lower minor leagues.  However, since no other teams in those lower minor leagues (WCHL, ECHL, CHL, UHL) have categories for their players, it should be inherent that the categories in question are for the IHL alumni of those teams.  I hope that made sense. Skudrafan1 19:57, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Go ahead and list them for renaming at WP:CFD. BoojiBoy 20:09, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, Booji, I'll do that.  I've never listed anything for renaming before, so I thought I'd come here first and make sure I wasn't way off base. :) Skudrafan1 20:19, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  (IHL) team categories 

message: I was looking through other sports today and noticed they all had an article for terminology (i.e. Baseball jargon, Glossary of basketball terms, Golf glossary, etc.) and I couldn't find one for hockey, so I made List of ice hockey terminology. Please add more stuff and correct stuff I wrote (I wrote the article rather hastily). Comments on what I've included would also be appreciated, thanks. CptUnconscious 02:43, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: List of ice hockey terminology

message: After my crusade against (IHL) categories, I've discovered a couple (AHL) categories which I feel need to have their names changed.  You can find that discussion here.  While there, check out the Moncton Hawks redirect to Moncton Hawks (AHL).  It is completely unnecessary, no?  I have contacted the user who originally made the move, so he can defend it on the article's talk page if he is so inclined. Skudrafan1 04:40, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  More category name changes 

message: They're coming fast and furious, so I've set up a 5th archive page.  RGTraynor 16:19, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Refactoring

message: Who is this guy and why does he write these biased things? An admin should take a look at him and maybe bam him. --Krm500 20:04, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This user did not have a warning yet.  So, I left the user a note.  -- JamesTeterenko 23:01, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  {{user|69.156.156.23}} 

message: , who we have previously discussed here and here, is at it again, pushing POV, converting spelling in American team articles to en-CA and his usual MO. Keep your eyes out for him. –NeoChaosX  [talk | contribs] 23:54, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just reverted more changes by 24.79.60.31 on the LA Kings page...same crap. Gmatsuda 21:03, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And I have just revert similar damage on the pages for the Blues, Stars, Ducks and Thrashers. What really frustrates me about this guy is that I've reported him in both WP:RFI and WP:AN/I and the admins have nothing to deal with him. –NeoChaosX  [talk | contribs] 22:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I have reported him at WP:AN/I for his latest behavior. I'm hoping something is done to curb this user's antics. –NeoChaosX  [talk | contribs] 23:19, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  24.79.60.31 at it again 

message: I just reverted a number of edits by  that were changing the weight listed for various players.  I spot checked a number of them with the external links noted on the player pages and if none were there, I checked hockeydb.com.  Seeing that they were all more consistent with the previous version and this IP has vandalised in the past, I reverted the edits.  However, since many of the weights I did find on reliable web sites were not consistent among one another, this got me thinking about what we should do regarding a players weight.  Some questions that popped into mind are:
# Do we have a reliable source that we should use for player weights?
# What about for retired players?
# Should we be verifying this information on a regular basis, as it will fluctuate from year-to-year, and even within the season?
# Should we put an "as of <date>" tag on the weights?
# Given these challenges, is it really encyclopedic enough to include this information for players?
-- JamesTeterenko 23:33, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't feel weight is overly important nor critical to the article. Flibirigit 04:24, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

text: IMO
# I would look at the teams official page, NHL.com or NHLPA.com.
# Don't see any use for it.
# Maybe check it once a new season starts, but not as a rule that it has too be done.
# No.
# For active player, yes. 
--Krm500 07:50, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Player height and weight has never been reliable. (Heck, Rob DiMaio's listed as 5'10".  I'm 5'10" and when we met, I looked down on him.)  Short players are boosted to make them seem less teensy, chubby players are reported at the weight they wish to be.  I just read an autobiography from Phil Esposito this week where he said that after being traded to Boston, Milt Schmidt asked him to come in at 205.  He was 220 at the time, slimmed down to 210, and it was deemed all good.  He was reported in at 205, listed as the same for the entirety of his career, and that's what you read in Total Hockey now if you pull up Espo's weight.  All of that being said, Wikipedia's standard isn't whether something's true, it's whether the information is verifiable.  RGTraynor 16:56, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  player weight reliability 

message: OK, the Devils page failed FA nomination, and it has been (re)submitted for peer review to see what the problems are.  We (Sportskido8 and I) would very much appreciate constructive criticism and assistance in moving this towards FA status (or at least GA).  Anthony Hit me up... 14:45, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Jersey Devils 

message: I was trying to find some information on A.T. Smith, the manager of the Ottawa Silver Seven.  However, I have run across a couple sources that indicate A.T. might actually be Alf Smith.  To confuse things more, Alf Smith's middle initial is a F.  I haven't found anything saying there were two Smith's on the team (other than Harry in 1906).  The most compelling source is "The Official NHL Stanley Cup Centennial Book", which says under the winners roster that Alf was the playing coach and nothing about an A.T. on the club.  Other books I've found have similar listings List of Stanley Cup Winners.  However, Alf's HHOF profile doesn't say anything about him coaching the Silver Seven.  What should I do?  A re-direct to Alf Smith?  Leave it as it is until we find something more definitive?  Patken4 15:16, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Charles Coleman does, however, cite that Alf coached the Silver Seven after his retirement (Trail of the Stanley Cup, Vol I, p. 655.) RGTraynor 17:51, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have yet to find any source, either online or in a book, that says there were two A. Smith's on the Silver Seven.  Some sources site the person as A.T. Smith, some as Alf Smith.  So I am going to do a re-direct from A.T. Smith to Alf Smith because I have verifiable information that tells me they are the same person.  I will, however, wait a couple days before doing this.  If someone has information stating they are in fact two different people, please either add it to my talk page or post it here.  If no one objects after this period, I will do the re-direct. Patken4 16:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  A.T. Smith = Alf Smith? 

message: Anyone verify if the other guy in that photo is really Frank J. Selke?  It would be nice to caption that pic and even include it on Frank's article. — MrDolomite | Talk 19:31, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question about [[Image talk:SelkeGainey.jpg]] 

message: Hey, I just wrote a new article for the Jackets because the other one was short and not very informative. I haven't done one before, so any comments or help would be appreciated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbus_Blue_Jackets
J-Roc 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't read it all but it looked good when I scanned through the text, good work! --Krm500 21:37, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Columbus Blue Jackets article

message: This page really needs to be trimmed, it's bordering on copyvio and it is 31K, just thought i'd let you guys know. Renosecond 03:50, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Carol "Cully" Wilson]] 

message: I figured I would copy/paste a topic from the History of the Philadelphia Flyers talk page, since it applies here. It is improper to list it as 1999-00. In an edit I said, "PLEASE LEAVE IT as 1999-2000, as it isn't 1999-1900 as is implied with 1999-00." Perhaps this is an exaggeration; I think most people might assume that 00 means 2000. Nevertheless, when have you ever heard someone refer to that particular season as 1999-00 or 99-00? It is usually referred to in its full form, 1999-2000, or 99-2000 for short. Perhaps it is typed as such, but it is never said like that. I think the use of 1999-00 shouldn't be changed where it is illogical to do so (see Flyers team standings), but in the article itself I think 1999-2000, the proper form, should be utilized. --Sparkhurst 03:44, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: the article was originally written "1999-2000 NHL season", but i changed it almost a year ago (with no protest from anyone) to stay consistant with all the other NHL seasons on wikipedia. 1998-99 NHL season, 1999-00 NHL season, 2000-01 NHL season, etc. looks a lot better than 1998-99 NHL season, 1999-2000 NHL season, 2000-01 NHL season, etc. Also, i think people are smart enough to know that 1999-00 means 1999-2000 and not 1999-1900 as that is a mathematically impossible sequence of years. Masterhatch 22:11, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I think it should be 1999-00. I've seen it that way a lot more often than 1999-2000. When talking about something that happened in the 1990s and ended in the 2000s after multiple years, I think the full year should be written, though. i.e. Steve Yzerman was captain from 1986-2006, not 1986-06. Anyone agree? J-Roc 18:40, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I prefer 1999-00.  DMighton 23:37, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I prefer 1999-00 as well.  Frankly, I am at a loss to understand why anyone would confuse 1999-00 with "1999-1900".  That is not a logical disconnect I see very many people making.  Officially, it was the 1999-00 season, and we should be going with what the leagues themselves referred to those seasons as. Resolute 22:36, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Fair enough.  Personally, I prefer the consistancy of format.  1998-99, 1999-00, 2000-01 looks much cleaner, and is more consistant. Resolute 15:24, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  1999-2000 or 1999-00? 

message: As you all can see there have been some minor changes to the project site. I'm just about to create the assement/AID page but first I would like to hear some comments on how things have been going. Does it feel like this could improve the project?  Any ideas or inputs on what should be improved and etc. --Krm500 11:46, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I like the new format. It is easier to follow changes. For the Requested articles page, I would recommend a brief explanation of who or what the article should be about. I have not, and some others mat not have heard of many of the people in this list. Flibirigit 15:33, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some changes 

message: I stumbled across this site while doing research for my article on Calgary's hockey history.  It is maintained by the government of Canada, and features reproductions of hundreds of full newspaper articles from the past century.  Resolute 19:23, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Great hockey history website

message: I'm crossposting the italicised portion of my post from Talk:2006 Stanley Cup Playoffs because I thought this was a good topical place to mention it. The SCP articles, I have noticed, use the rather lazy method of succession boxes (usually used to link winners of awards together) to lead into other Stanley Cup Playoff articles. What makes this even more glaring is the fact that actual teams that have won Stanley Cups, such as the Hurricanes, DON'T have Stanley Cup Champions succession boxes on their pages. 
The succession box at the bottom is, in my opinion, a shoddy way to link the SCP articles together. A better way, I think, would be to create a template listing Stanley Cup Playoff years, in much the same vein as soccer articles do. (Case in point, the template at the bottom of the 2006 UEFA Champions League Final article that enables quick access to any of the years it was played.)
A template box for the SCP pages should probably be necessary. How exactly do you go about making a template?
EDIT: sorry, I forgot to tilde. DamionOWA 05:30, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Succession boxes for SCP articles 

message: I am very well knowledged in hockey and the history of the NHL. And would like to help.--Dr. Pizza 20:13, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  I would like to help 

message: You guys might wanna add Tommi Santala to your watchlist. People at the Canucks.com forums are depicting him as the next Chuck Norris (again). Last time, the page was so badly vandalized it had to be semiprotected. He's playing well in the preseason so far; expect the vandalism to possibly escalate. -→Buchanan-Hermit™/?! 05:28, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Why not just request semi-protection? Or is this infrequent enough that this wouldn't warrant such an action? NeoChaosX  [talk | contribs] 07:01, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm an admin, so I can semi-protect it myself (and have done so before), but there's no need for it yet. I just want you guys to be aware, just in case it DOES happen. It's kind of infrequent in a way -- it's sporadic. Once the vandalism starts, it arrives in huge waves. But then it quiets down afterwards. -→Buchanan-Hermit™/?! 07:24, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism alert 

message: Does anyone know who this 68.39.163.15 guy is? He makes minor changes in hockey related articles, an extra few pounds here and there and some wrird intros like changes from -"Player was drafted 15th overall" to -"At 6,2, 215 lbs, Player was drafted 15th overall". He also changed the year of both Forsberg's and Ovechkin's pro career start. --Krm500 00:16, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I am not sure who he is. Masterhatch 04:24, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=68.39.163.15 68.39.163.15] 

message: Alright i'm trying to make it back into the routine editing hockey stuff now that summer is over, and i have absolutely no idea what has to be done. I am now armed with much better internet, so if people can tell what has to be done I'm willing to help. Remember that I deal mostly along the lines of actual players and/or general statistics. Thanks. Croat Canuck Go Leafs Go 20:12, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Welcome back! did you have a good summer? As for projects, i am not really sure what needs to be done as i haven't been contributing much myself. I have just been slowly working on player creation articles and their respective lists. Masterhatch 04:25, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trying to make it back