Talk:Silesia/Archive 4

message: In my opinion, Silesia is a good example for articles in that the Wikipedia philosophy does not work. There seem to be three opinions: 1. the historian's view, that tries to find out the truth (when was Silesia polish/german, etc), 2. the polish revangist view, that tries to delete expulsion facts and tries to let seem german land polish. 3. the german revangist view, that tries to delete polish history in Silesia and tries to let seem polish land german. In my opinion, such articles should be protected always and only be edited by both german and polish historians without nationalistic ideas. Even you will find compromises here, the next polish or german nationalist already waits for the next Edit War. Other examples in which WP does not work are Religion, Israel/Palestine, Communism/Capitalism 82.82.125.120 00:52, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)
thread_title:  Historians first! 

message: Thanks, everybody, for accumulating more information. Many Wikipedians have put much effort into elucidating the facts of Silesia's history on this page and in its archives. Methinks it would be a good idea now to start finding a compromise formula for the text that all can agree on (note, this can also mean that you agree to disagree, as long as the relevant positions are not misrepresented). Please make suggestions.
I would like to repeat that the locking of Silesia should not be lifted until a viable compromise is found. And I might add that refusing to participate in the discussion only to return to reversions once the page is unlocked will most certainly lead to accusations of vandalist behaviour which will, I am rather sure, this time result in a serious effort to ban such users. Kosebamse 12:54, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: What's to be done now

message: Combining the existing article and Szopen's latest proposal, we get:
 
Silesia (Polish: Śląsk, German: Schlesien) is an historic region in east-central Europe, located along the upper and middle Oder River, in what is now southwestern Poland and with parts in Germany and the Czech Republic. The historical region belonged to Poland in the middle age. Ties with Poland were weakening over time, while ties with Germany were increasing. Most of Silesia was part of Germany before 1945, and the majority of the population were German. After World War II most of the Silesian (German) population were expelled and replaced by Poles expelled from former Kresy. 
Is this acceptable to everyone? -- Nico 03:00, 14 Nov 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: It might be a good idea to split it up after the first sentence because that's where the most relevant information is and should be (some Websites snatch Wikipedia article first sentences to use as definitions). And I am always confused about the use of the "-ic" versus "-ical" suffixes, so I can just guess "historical" would be better. If I may offer a personal opinion (though I promised I would not, so please feel free to ignore it), the reference to expulsions, while historically factual, does not seem that overwhelmingly important so it could be moved somewhere downward in the article, perhaps to the demographics section. I am under the impression that it's a little inflammatory even in its present form - it reminds me remotely of body-count arguments like "Hitler killed so and so many - but Stalin killed etc", and these are probably not very helpful with respect to NPOV. Kosebamse 08:08, 14 Nov 2003 (UTC)

text: PS: I guess it would be wise to include the Polish name of the Oder river - it would otherwise make a casus belli again, and now enough of personal opinions. Kosebamse 08:11, 14 Nov 2003 (UTC)

text: It looks like a compromise has been found (BTW I believe it's "middle ages" with an "s"). I would like to wait another day and if there are no objections I guess Silesia and Schlesien can be unprotected. Kosebamse 10:55, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)
thread_title:  Final proposal