Talk:Henrik Ibsen

message: Ibsen was fifteen not fourteen when he came to Grimstad. He was born in Mars 1828, and came to Grimstad ether in November 1843 or January 1844. - JonT
--------------  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.171.152.2 (talk) 12:14, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Could you name some examples (just from the top of your head) of what differs in facts between that biography and this article? I don't have any other biographies to check against except the ones available online and linked to in the external links section here, but I have time, so I can at least check the things you found different against those. Thanks. Shanes 21:45, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: comment

message: This article makes some broad statements about drama: "Prior to him, plays were expected to be moral dramas with noble protagonists pitted against darker forces. Every drama was expected to result in a "proper" conclusion, meaning that goodness was to bring happiness, and immorality only pain."
I don't mean to be overly critical--I'm new to Wikipedia and just signed on to address this -- but lots of theater was accomplished without the need for a "proper" conclusion shortly before Ibsen, including George Ethridge's "Man of Mode." Also, I don't like the scare-quotes around the word ("proper"), and think scare-quotes shouldn't be included in an encylclopedia entry. Better to simply hash out your distaste for that culture's values in a more overt way, and probably not in the article anyway.
Also, I object to the use of this cliche:
"Ibsen was to turn that concept on its head..."
Though of smaller consequence, I object to the use of the word "very" twice in the first two paragraphs, which exhibits a weakness in diction.
I wasn't sure whether to change the article, but the bottom of this page says that improving upon articles is encouraged, so I will change these issues. If that's improper, please let me know by e-mailing me.
:Thanks for your comments. I must say I agree with everything you say, and I'm happy to see you went ahead and made the changes to the article. It wasn't improper at all, it's how this encyclopedia gets better. Thanks again. Shanes 07:06, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re: Overbroad claim? 

message: I don't know if it should be added to the page itself, but Project Gutenberg just released Henrik Ibsen: A Bibliography of Criticism and Biography with an Index to Characters/--Prosfilaes 08:03, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bibliography 

message: Added some material on Hedda Gabler and The Master Builder. Hard to believe the article offered no discussion of the second play at all, and hardly any discussion of the first. For me these are the best plays Ibsen wrote, mercifully free from lectures and driven by the most interesting of his heroines. Casey Abell 00:19, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Later plays

message: Perhaps the section on "An Enemy of the People" could make more of how, in part, this play is a very clever satire on democracy. Wikipedia has been criticised, but it seems to me that any one who is criticising the  "open-edit" policy of Wikipedia is, by implication, also criticising parliamentary democracy. One might be concerned that any one could edit Wikipedia articles; but shouldn't one therefore be equally worried that people who vote in democratic elections might know about as  much politics as the drunken man in "An Enemy of the People"? ACEO 18:50, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: An Enemy of the People

message: Ibsen's plays have had considerable psychological impact, as the writings of Sigmund Freud reveal. They were also of interest to the theologian Paul Tillich. So, should we have a section on  the influence of Ibsen beyond drama and literature? ACEO 18:50, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Influence on Freud and Tillich

message: I find it a bit strange that it is "despite his exile" that Ibsen is held high in Norway. I don't think Dalai Lama isn't held high by his fellow Tibetans even though he too is exiled. And even I may be "disenchanted" with the cold winter nights here in Norway, but that doesn't make me less Norwegian. Any thoughts? --Kebman 23:23, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. In particular, his exile was self-imposed. Morever, it doesn't change the fact that he is Norwegian. I think we could drop the qualifying clause and simply state that he is a national hero to the Norwegians AND a world-renowned playwright. --GentlemanGhost 23:47, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The term exile might be out of place here as it more often nowadays implies some form of force. Either that the person is expelled from the country or that he has to leave for fear of life or freedom. But Ibsen left Norway because he felt unwelcome amongst the cultural and social elite of Christiania at that time and because he could come in contact with the impulses of Europe. He later returned as well.Inge 12:53, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Norwegian 

message: I've started an approach that may apply to Wikipedia's Core Biography articles: creating a branching list page based on in popular culture information.  I started that last year while I raised Joan of Arc to featured article when I created Cultural depictions of Joan of Arc, which has become a featured list.  Recently I also created Cultural depictions of Alexander the Great out of material that had been deleted from the biography article.  Since cultural references sometimes get deleted without discussion, I'd like to suggest this approach as a model for the editors here.  Regards, Durova 16:50, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Cultural depictions of Henrik Ibsen]] 

message: I find the sentence objectionable. Nora is above all an individual fighting for her own autonomy, freedom and love, against social conventions. Calling this "feminism" is correct in a way, but it is also too narrow and thus misleading. It is no conventional sermon preaching feminism, any more than "Hamlet" is a conventional sermon preaching against usurpation of the throne. Generally, modern analyses deal with much more than the strictly feminist implications of the work. And I certainly don't agree with suggestions that such a thing can be "routine" and "dated", or that Hedda's hysterical, vain destructivity is in any way more "interesting" than Nora's striving. I know the opinion exists, but it shouldn't be stated as a fact. --194.145.161.227 00:14, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nora's "routine feminism" 

message: I noticed that the dates for Ibsen's plays on this page are slightly different than the ones on the Norwegian wikipedia. I checked what Project Gutenberg said about the most obvious one (Fru Inger til Østeraad), and the two available texts dates it differently as well. Not sure what to do about this - are there any experts that can take a look? Sverre 10:45, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dating of plays 

message: Following on from the 'possible spoilers' section above, would it be better to strip out the contents of the plays from the 'life and writings' section, giving only a broad description of the themes, and have sections below for each of the plays? This would allow the use of 'spoiler warnings' and 'see main article' tags in a way that can't really be done with the current structure. Just a thought. Squiddy | (squirt ink?) 23:13, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Structure 

message: I find it odd that the intro, when speaking of his moral themes, neglects that several of his plays depicted women in an uncharacteristically (for the period) positive light; as intellectual equals with men. The theme of women's rights and independence is a major one in many academic considerations of Ibsen. VanTucky (talk) 00:25, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  intro  

message: I added Theodore Dalrymple's critical article on Ibsen, http://www.city-journal.org/html/15_3_urbanities-isben.html "Ibsen and His Discontents", City Journal, Summer 2005, mainly to provide a viewpoint that doesn't exalt Ibsen, his ideals, and his work. Ld80061 (talk) 16:05, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Contrary View 

message: The English in this article is disastrous, certainly not native speaker. What on earth is a "Poor black"? (What Ibsen's illegitimate son ended up as).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.27.161.87 (talk) 19:43, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Feel free to improve per policy WP:BOLD. Not all Wikipedians are English native speakers (including me). Rursus dixit. (mbork3!) 07:06, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  English 

message: There was an early play by Ibsen called "The Grouse of Justedal" sometimes translated as "The Ptarmigan of Justeval". I believe this play was left unfinished, but perhaps we could still mention it here. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 19:50, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: No, I do not think it is worth mentioning. "The creative process leading to Olaf Liljekrans began with The Grouse of Justedal, a National Play in Four Acts by Brynjolf Bjarme, a drama Ibsen began to write in Christiania in 1850, but never finished. The fragment ends in the middle of the second act." http://www.ibsen.net/index.gan?id=482&subid=0  --Vsop.de (talk) 21:00, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: No mention of The Grouse of Justedal

message: There was a book published in 2006 titled: "Ibsen And Hitler,The playwright,the plagiarist,and the plot for the Third Reich",the book was written by Steven F. Sage,and it was published by Carroll & Graf Publishers. The book basically elaborates on how Adolf Hitler was inspired by the literary works of Henrik Ibsen. Signed,Anthony Ratkov August 9,2010.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.226.127.63 (talk) 08:16, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Ibsen And Hitler

message: The book "Ibsen and Hitler" was written by Steven F. Sage,Ph.D.,and the notes on the book jacket describe him as a 'former U.S. diplomat' and 'research fellow (in 2005) at the Center for Advanced Holocaust Studies of the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum'. In the book,the author says that Hitler plagiarized part of a play written by Ibsen when he wrote Mein Kampf. According to Sage,when Hitler wrote his infamous book,Mein Kampf,he copied part of chapter three from a play written by Ibsen. Specifically,part of chapter three from Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler was copied from Act IV of Ibsen's drama,'Enemy of the people'. The book says that Hitler was a big fan of Ibsen,and Hitler often quoted from Isben's works. The book claims that the works of Isben were some of the primary inspirations for Hitler's Nazi philosophy. Signed,Anthony Ratkov. August 9,2010. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.226.127.63 (talk) 08:50, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: More on Ibsen And Hitler

message: 'Ibsen is often ranked as one of the truly great playwrights in the European tradition, alongside Shakespeare.' 
Er - really? Alongside Shakespeare? And without a citation or anything? Oel43 (talk) 20:38, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, other versions of the article (this article in other languages) states the same. One article even claims Ibsen's plays are more played worldwide than Shakespeare (more doesn't mean better), but also that is without link to sources. I'm not the expert on this subject but I don't think the statement you quoted sounds far fetched. Urbanus Secundus (talk) 12:16, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: It is difficult to get credible figures, especially worldwide. The Theatre Communications Group's annual surveys of the ten most produced plays in America specifically omit Shakespeare, apparently on the assumption that he would dominate the list. Playbill publishes separate lists of top ten plays and musicals perormed in American high schools, as does the Educational Theatre Association, which also has a list of the top ten short plays in high schools. Given the large number of high schools vs. the lesser number of community theatres and professional theatres combined, the high school surveys may well be the final word within the US. — Robert Greer (talk) 17:48, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Ibsen and Shakespeare

message: If "A Doll's House" is the world's most performed play, then "Hedda Gabler" cannot be Ibsen's most performed play.  Pravda (sic) is offered as a source for the first claim, while no source is provided for the second.  Can someone offer a reliable source that would resolve this?  Nandt1 (talk) 14:00, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Internal Contradiction over "Most Performed Play"

message: The modern dramatist "Henrik Ibsen"
                                                                    By the:
                                                               (( abbas moazzen))
Ibsen's work encompasses almost the entire second half of the nineteenth century. Abysnysm extract Bernard Shaw said, when His plays Ibsen began writing, art, drama or arts building status was diminished. It was believed that the situation is more exotic , it is possible to play even better. But Ibsen found that on the contrary, the situation is More casually , is more elaborate. Ibsen wrote plays in their repertoire of twenty-five, the first show he called "Katalyn" was published in 1850 and the last play Ibsen, called "the die with open eyes" is a show Symbolistic in 1899. Ibsen's works from the 1890s became known everywhere. According to the book embodies Brnardshav symbolism, he plays more important than Shakespeare. Ibsen's works can be divided into four periods, the characteristics of the course his work is transferred to another era:
The first period, his historical plays classic covers. Second period, the two great dramatic effect, and during his stay in Rome he called a "push" and "Prgvnt" returns. Each scene is more or less the immigration country to another. Plays a critical, social, and tragedies he wrote later in Germany and Norway, he is individualistic product recovery. In his play "Ghosts" what Ibsen is designed to introduce the basic symbols that constitute the backbone of the theatrics and the depth of its meaning. Naturalism, symbolism, he is actually on the cover. The main character, a woman named "Lvnyg" who wants to live his life, but instead sees ghosts at all. She says that ghosts Lvnyg part of modern women, daughters, sisters and wives deceived seen that the abused, deprived of pursuing their missions and they have been deprived of the inheritance. Due to grouchy and stern are Hbmn. In fact, these women and new mothers constitute the next generation.
"Steer" the first long drama that Ibsen has composed symphonic poems and understanding symbols, ambiguous and sometimes it is not easy interpolation. Ibsen in drama, presents a broad perspective from the standpoint of long.her financially ruined.
Brand, Rev. ethics is biased and has a charming personality. He won the high ideals of the foundation, is honest and powerful. Brand slogan, "Everything or Nothing" is. The argument that the Danish philosopher, "Kierkegaard" criticism of Christianity and idealism in its contract. Brnardshav says, in front of the windshield screaming "My God, your God, old and young," traditional interests and feelings of weakness and selfishness seems to be the conventional church or losing color. But do not do it without needing someone to look Dardta boat rudders, sails in order to give him. But his assessment of the sensitivity of fishermen do not accept the status quo and refuse to go with him. Rmankhvahyhay drive is fascinated by the woman he is with. Travel leads to marriage and the birth of two children who both shot to his heart. Later that want to push their ideals through the peaks, the depths of their cruel and deadly falls. Thus, the first child to die because of difficult weather should push to shirk his duty. Then his dead son's clothes had that gift to a gypsy woman. Finally, push the woman, and child sacrifice becomes a saint to the people. Shortly after the believers who pay it, and push the idea that they are stoned. The fact that she poured her avalanche kills mountain. Many of Ibsen's plays, misconduct means fraud, murder, and crime, rather than insisting on honesty Byjast out of Champions size. Therefore, readers criminals drums as he drives, where the symbol of honesty and assume an ideal model in which the imagination of the heroes of the tragedies that hard to make a smooth, hard-cooked soul in the furnace tests. Drama "push" before quietly launched anywhere in Norway and was known as Kierkegaard's theory of poetic description.
After the drive, the drama "Prgvnt" Henrik Ibsen's reputation can multiply. Prgvnt, being just the opposite (antithesis) drive. He is a priest after the spiritual high ideals. But the truth is that lies outside the scope of their evil ideology does not recognize any principle and the ideal in order to achieve their carnal desires elaborate head. Its own "their king" and he wrote the title on the home front. Illusion that with their strong willpower, curb Tqdyrsh toll on the wealth, power and fame would palate. Following these demands, the mountains and plains and desert to water and fire rings. Professional slavery and trafficking into the whiskey. The evangelist is Hmdastan wealth in the U.S. is up in the air off the coast of Africa. In an Arab tribe itself is considered final. Dancer girl closes the heart and the prophet is discarded and the types of Zltha. Finally, do drugs and he is ballerina white horse steals the desert Bix and will only release. After some confusion, his Prgvnt the sphinx body quiet and firm sees and considers him a symbol of the ideal and the epitome of selfishness. Eventually he met a German man Prgvnt to the club, composed of scholars living in Cairo. After that the club actually insane asylum, where his articles and some of the guards have given. In the lunatic asylum known as the Prgvnt sequel to his king, and while the furor over his head Stayshsh Tajgzardh and fear him, and falls unconscious. In fact, of the nature and behavior, but there is no similarity between the ideal Prgvnt and brand building, ignoring the reality of their world - both on a Sk•hand and their resemblance to Don Quixote.
"Ghosts have their inheritance. Ghosts, the belief that men could somehow affect our behavior and reign ended. 
As Ms. Lvnyg in his speech said: I think we are all ghosts of the past. The opinions within our Atraq and we will not ever get rid of them. 
They (ghosts) are nothing more than force the most naturalistic works are seen as nothing more than social conditions that shape us.
Genes that we make something contemporary with him insist on it. As in the original "pillars of society" emphasizes that the ghosts of 
old beliefs and attitudes, uninterrupted by conscience in Styznd new era. Pillars of Norwegian society and a place where 
imagination has been captured by narrow-mindedness, hypocrisy, and trade and is the burial place of the spirit of the Victorian era."
Viewing the "pillars of society" in a scene that takes place in view of the most dramatic gesture Bvrvzhvaha room in the cramped and dark chamber occurs. Luna is a modern thinking woman, who is now back in the U.S.. He has come to "set aside the curtains and light in the form of a new air flow." In the end, the main character has changed and expresses that women constitute the real bases. But Luna, who speaks the language, the author believes that the "spirit of freedom" should be the main pillar of society. Vaqh elements of the play, Ibsen was considered a statement of the duties of the pillars of society and the problems it was time to pay attention. This work showed that, according to modern views, beliefs conflict with the fundamental laws of, hatred of hypocrisy and self explanatory with new ethics and conflict between men and women, young and old, past and future. And to quote Dr. Astvkmn in the drama "Enemy of the People" by Ibsen: "The majority is never right."
Symbolistic drama "wild fowl" which Ibsen wrote it in 1884, to about vulnerable and fragile nature of human modern idealist rough deal in life. As the focus of this work is based on a symbolic bird and wild duck when wounded plunge into the deep lake. They are both dominated by the forces of his inner consciousness. Rebecca is interested Rvsmr guides his wife to suicide.old struggle against racism and for freedom and progress, is successful.
Suicide is the Rvsmr wife, Rebecca Love Rvsmr also loses color. Wild birds is a tragic play in which death is the only way forward and Rebecca Rvsmr the perfect love.
In the drama " A Doll's House" family, "Helmer" is ideal for a family that truly embody the image of "a happy family" can be used on them. About the house as it is commonly known as a "loving family" and "home happiness" can be adopted.'s. Nora, the miracle is waiting patiently for eight years in the uniform flow normal things such as marriage, child and social relationships, meaning and give color and smell fresh. Forgery, and is happy that her husband treat Unlike the revealed if one day, he rises to support her husband and takes the blame. She survived her husband for the sake of love is sin, gladly, wealth and social status and credibility is sacrificed.
But does not see a way to recognize their rugged nature. Despite the rocky start to their fate is not like its predecessors, the stars and the sky.
The following sources were used:
The modern world. Malcolm Bradbry.
Aybsnysm extract. Bernard Shaw.
Poet Ibsen (play doll house) of Henrik Ibsen.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by عباس مؤذن (talk • contribs) 10:27, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Essay

message: Hi,
I saw that Ibsen's plays being controversial was tagged with "citation needed".
Here is a link to Ibsen's own description of writing an alternative ending
to the "Doll's House" for German theatres.
http://ibsen.nb.no/id/11111794.0
http://ibsen.nb.no/id/11111794.0
The site belongs to the National Library of Norway, the Ibsen collection.
I don't know if this makes the primary Ibsen quoate a secondary source or not,
so I'll leave it to others to determine whether or not this link is a useable source, whether this single example is sufficient sourcing for such a wide claim, and if so, how to present it in the article.
T  
88.89.144.233 (talk) 00:04, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source for being controversial 

message: The description of the family silhouette is clunky. It starts out with "to the right". English is read left-to-right and it's hard to understand who the characters are in reading the picture right-to-left. I don't know who any of them are. Nor does the description clarify that. Could someone please edit that? Where does the silhouette come from? How about some info on the history of it itself, let alone the people in it.  How I'm reading the outlines it looks like a married couple is back to back, which would be unusual.  Kristinwt (talk) 12:25, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Silhouette 

message: Substituted at 17:38, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: It is at best a huge generalisation to write "Ibsen wrote his plays in Danish", and at worst it is wrong. 
Reference 11, used to support the assertion, is merely a piece of text followed by a cf to a book by Haugen, and as far as I can tell (I do not have access to the whole book) it does not support the text. In it Haugen writes "From the almost pure Danish of his first plays Ibsen moved step by step to the Norwegian speech that was natural to him".
I have a more nuanced reference for the language of Ibsen - Ibsens Språk - but it is in Norwegian and I am not sure if it can be used in the English Wikipedia. Basically he went through a number of different phases in his language use, some of them more Danish, and some more Norwegian, but it was not even the clear progression that Haugen seems to suggest.
Steve.slatcher (talk) 13:46, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ibsen's language 

message: When this article talks about Ibsen's major works, it mentions "When We Dead Awaken" and The Master Builder. Since "When We Dead Awaken" was Ibsen's last play, would it not make more sense to have this play last in the list? Vorbee (talk) 07:58, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Listing Ibsen's plays

message: Under Legacy, would it be appropriate to add something about the Ibsen Festival that occurs in Oslo every other year? TheatrePartnerships (talk) 19:56, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ibsen Festival in Oslo? 

message: hello! i've never contributed to a talk page so apologies in advance if this breaches protocols. I take umbrage with the following passage regarding 'Enemy of the People'
"It is obvious to the reader that disaster is in store for the town as well as for the doctor"
I think given the context of the rest of the article - the argument that Enemy was a parable for the debacle of Ghosts, Dr. Stockmann's fate isn't a disastrous one, as he stuck by his morals and therefore succeeded within an economy that values individualism.  115.70.22.106 (talk) 20:04, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  contradiction resulting from interpretive error?