Talk:Mécia Lopes de Haro

message: I don't see anything on Diego Lopez's page that says Maria Manrique de Lara wasn't Lope Diaz's mother. It just doesn't even mention it at all while many other sites and other language articles do mention her existence, and I google booked it and got some Spanish sources that show she was mother of Lope. I agree with your removal of Aldonza's parents because there is an explaination but not Maria Manrique de Lara.--Queen Elizabeth II's Little Spy (talk) 23:41, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Did you look at the section called "Marriage and Children"?  Also, the footnote at the bottom links to an article that explicitly dismisses the supposed marriage to Maria Manrique: "Nous rejetons l'hypothese d'un premier mariage avec Maria Manrique de Lara, . . . "(note 76).  Likewise, Sanchez de Mora's dissertation on the Lara (pp. 348-350) dismisses this marriage, citing documentation for the marriage of Diego Lopez to Toda Perez. You can't just go by what someone like Garcia de Salazar or Salazar y Castro wrote in the 17th century - much of it had no basis in reality.  Unfortunately, a Google Books search will primarily show you older material (for copyright reasons), hence mostly just repeating the same old nonsense, and not the recent scholarly work that overturns it. Agricolae (talk) 00:12, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: While the marriage of Diego López de Haro and María Manrique has been dismissed by some modern historians, I would not rule it out altogether.  Diego's son Lope II Díaz de Haro has a documented son, Manrique, a typical name among the Laras (undated charter in Uclés where the widow Urraca Alfonso appears with her children Diego, Álvaro, Mencía, later queen of Portugal, Alfonso, Lope, and Manrique) . His marriage to Toda Pérez de Azagra is certainly documented, but María Manrique could have been his first wife. Mencía (accent on the i, not e in Spanish), was not a relative of Rodrigo González (Girón). Her sister Berenguela was his wife. It seems plausible that, based on her appearance in documentation in Palencia, that she spent some time with her sister and was thus one of the executor's of Teresa Arias de Quijada's will (Teresa was married to Gonzalo González Girón, brother of Rodrigo married to Berenguela, Mencía's sister). She appears in several charters: 1255 in Aguilar de Campoo, when the monastery grants her the usufruct for life of the Abbey of San Agustín in Quirce.  Again in 1257 in the Monasterio of Benevivere when she donates the village of Ferreruela.  Again in Benavides in the charter mentioned in the article, but not making a donation but rather fufilling the wishes expressed in Teresa Arias de Quijada's will. On 18 feb 1257 she appears in la Rioja selling  Ferrín a village that she had from her "arras" in Portugal to countess Urraca Díaz de Haro, abbess at the Monastery of Cañas. She appears very often with her half brother  Diego López de Salcedo who is one of the executors of her will. On 7 Dec. 1275, Diego López de Haro and Friar Diego Ruiz founded 4 "capellanías" for the soul of Mencía at the Mon. of Santa María la Real in Nájera.   She and her brother Diego López de Salcedo are buried in the same chapel in this Monastery. --Maragm (talk) 09:58, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ancestry