Talk:Lutheran chorale

message: Originally choral settings of Lutheran hymn tunes, and later also several instrumental genres, e.g. organ pieces from around the 17th century, and pieces for orchestra or piano from around the 19th century.
Essential characteristics of a chorale:
# Text: metric Lutheran hymn
# Metric tune or melody associated with the hymn text
# Homophonic part-setting (mostly four-part harmony for SATB) of text and melody
Later chorales not necessarily combine all of these characteristics, e.g.:
* only a known hymn tune in baroque organ chorales, or even only a chorale-like tune (not associated to any text) in late Romantic organ chorales
* only a chorale-like melody presented in a chorale-like harmonisation, as in the last movement of Saint-Saëns' 3rd symphony
Role in development of four-part harmony
Derivative genres such as chorale fantasia
:==History==
Rhythmic approach (metre: as well for text as for melody) as opposed to preceding Gregorian chant.
Building block of Harmonielehre (≈canon of Western music) as taught from the late 17th to 21st century
:===16th century===
Walter 1524 → ...
Melody in tenor part
Bulk of hymn text and hymn tune creations
:===17th century===
Schein's Cantional etc
In such hymnals the composer providing the harmonisation may be more often mentioned than the composer of the original hymn tune
Hymn tune mostly in highest vocal part (exceptions where the hymn tune remains in the tenor are indicated as fauxbourdon settings)
More or less fixed associations of hymn texts with hymn tunes
Organ chorales: ..., Pachelbel, ... 
:===18th century===
Bach etc:
* Chorale movements in cantatas (also Passions, Oratorios): Meiningen, Stölzel, ...
* Other figuraliter settings of hymn tunes: chorale fantasia; stand-alone chorales (e.g. Bach's Three Wedding Chorales)
* Further development of organ chorale
* Hausmusik, e.g. Anna Magdalena Notebook
Congregational singing (i.e. choraliter, as opposed to figuraliter) however moves toward monodic singing of the chorale melody, with an instrumental accompaniment for the harmony; less hymn tunes used: texts with a similar metre scheme can be sung to a better-known melody.
:===19th century===
Revival, Mendelssohn etc
Hymnology, e.g. Zahn
Romantic interpretations, e.g. symphonies, chorales not necessarily based on a pre-existing tune
:===20th to 21st century===
More revival and (late) romantic interpretations, e.g. Busoni
Modern interpretations, e.g. Satie
:==Types==
Originally choral music, later also diverse types of instrumental music
"Stollen" type
:===Vocal===
Archetype: four-part harmony, SATB, homophony
:====Part song====
Hymnals:
* Melody in tenor part, three- to five-part settings, e.g. Eyn geystlich Gesangk Buchleyn (Walter 1524)
* Four- to six-part settings, with thorough bass accompaniment, e.g. Neu Leipziger Gesangbuch (Vopelius 1682)
Collections, e.g. Bach's four-part chorale editions
Colla parte accompaniment, e.g. closing chorales of Bach-cantatas
:====Elaborate choral settings====
Chorale fantasia, e.g. opening movement of St Matthew Passion (in English rather called Chorus than Chorale)
:====Monodic with instrumental accompaniment====
Voice and continuo, e.g. Schemellis Gesangbuch (1736) – rather called Lied in German
:===Instrumental===
In instrumental chorale settings, as well emulations of four-part homophony, as chorale fantasia type of approaches exist.
Originally Choralbearbeitung, setting of a pre-existing chorale melody
:====Organ====
Chorale preludes, e.g. Erster Theil etlicher Choräle (Pachelbel), Clavier-Übung III (Bach)
Not based on pre-existing hymn tunes, e.g. César Franck's Trois chorals
:====Orchestra====
In symphonies, e.g. Mendelssohn, Saint-Saëns, Mahler
:====Other====
Piano, e.g. Franck, Busoni, Satie
:==References==
:==Sources==
*...
:==External links==
* ...
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--Francis Schonken (talk) 06:49, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Outline for new "Chorale" article

message: Why and where does this article need additional citations for verification? What references does it need and how should they be added? Hyacinth (talk) 01:53, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Additional citations

message: Moved here from Talk:Chorale#chorale vs. hymn:
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I confess to not like the deep link to Liturgy in Lutheranism, as it doesn't even arrive at the section header (possibly because of tags?), starting (for me) mid-sentence with "is well known for its doctrinal, didactic, and musical richness". How helpful is that? If you find the section header, you still don't know in wich article you, and read about  Norwegian minorities, first thing. I made Lutheran hymn a redirect to Lutheran chorale because I believe the two terms mean pretty much the same. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:27, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Add a ==Lutheran hymn== section to the Lutheran chorale article? Doesn't seem too difficult (I suppose a few sentences can be copy-pasted, with minor finetuning, from the Liturgy section in the Lutheranism article). After which the Lutheran hymn bluelink in the lead of the Lutheran chorale article can be de-linked, and the redirect re-redirected to the Lutheran chorale article. --Francis Schonken (talk) 14:36, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Lutheran hymn]] redirect

message: See p. viii of the Lightwood source I just added to the "Further reading" section: in certain contexts the word "hymn" can apparently refer to the text of the hymn only (without its setting to whatever tune). Summarizing: "hymn" can mean (in certain contexts) "words only"; "chorale" can mean (in certain contexts) "tune (or setting) only"; "hymn" and "chorale" are only synonyms in those contexts where both text and tune are meant; for Wikipedia usage I suggest to use "hymn text"/"words of the hymn"/"stanzas of the hymn"/"chorale translation"/(etc) when the context doesn't make otherwise clear that only the text is meant, and conversely "hymn tune"/"chorale melody"/"chorale setting"/(etc) when the context doesn't make otherwise clear that only the music is meant; when both text and associated (monodic) melody are meant I'd prefer "hymn" over "chorale"; when "text" + "tune" + "continuo accompaniment" are meant still rather "hymn" than "chorale"; when a more elaborate composition is meant, with or without sung text (e.g. a chorale prelude or a SATB chorale harmonisation) I'd prefer "chorale" over "hymn". --Francis Schonken (talk) 08:47, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: example of the terminology proposed above: BWV 478 is usually named a "hymn" ("hymn text" + "hymn tune" + "continuo accompaniment" found in Schemellis Gesangbuch); Stokowski's arrangement of the same (orchestral setting, no text) would however usually be called a "chorale". --Francis Schonken (talk) 08:58, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Hymn as "words only"

message: Thus far I couldn't find any example of someone calling the tune of a Lutheran hymn a chorale before the late 19th century (and even these examples, i.e. in Busoni's oeuvre, are ambiguous because they don't distinguish between the composer of a hymn tune and the composer elaborating that tune into a four-part chorale). Is there any reliable source that can confirm that a (Lutheran) hymn tune is called "chorale" in the 16th century? 17th century? 18th century? first half of the 19th century? --Francis Schonken (talk) 10:52, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Earliest (1893) I don't know, English I don't know, but just came across this German sentence: "Die Mel. zu diesem Liede gilt für einen der schönsten Choräle, ..." here, which I would translate: "The melody to this song is regarded as one of the most beautiful chorales". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:02, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: The earliest example of English usage given in the OED is 1841, by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, who cited the German term: "David's harp in the North-land Tuned to the Choral of Luther". The earliest cited use of the word with the added final letter e is 1855, in an English translation of Johann Georg Albrechtsberger's composition treatise. The German spelling continued to be used in English until at least the fourth quarter of the 19th century. OED speculates that the final e was added to indicate stress on the final syllable, by analogy to words like "locale" and "morale", since the spelling "choral" can easily be mistaken for the adjective meaning "of or belonging to a choir". OED also says that this spelling "is often mistaken to mean a separate syllable", although I have never come across this myself.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 01:35, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thank you for that, which should probably go to Chorale. The question above was different, I think: when was the German "Choral" first used to describe a hymn tune? - Stress on tune, because in today's German usage, there's hardly a difference between Choral and Kirchenlied (Wir singen den Choral. Wir singen das Lied.), and it means the complete song, text and melody, not only a tune. Dictionary entries, however, and the one instance I cited above, indicate that at times Choral meant only the tune. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:57, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

text: You are welcome. I think I may have been misled by the spelling "chorale", which I believe is used in English, but not German (except in the plural, only with ä). However, according to the New Grove article by Marshall and Leaver, the application of the German word Choral to "Lutheran hymns" first occurred in the late 16th century. Marshall and Leaver are not completely clear, however, whether this meant both the melody and the text, or just the melody. Further investigation is indicated.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 17:47, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Earliest examples of calling a hymn tune a "chorale"?

message: To my surprise Johannes Zahn and his system of classifying all tunes/melodies of hymns "sung by a congregation in a German Protestant Church service" are not yet mentioned in this article. --Francis Schonken (talk) 07:00, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Zahn