Talk:List of vegetable oils

message: Dammar oil is a drying agent, not a dessicant. A dessicant works by removing moisture, while a drying oil like dammar oil works by pulling oxygen out of the air and using it in autoxidation. 
The problem was a link to an ill-considered redirect, which was quite reasonably replaced with direct link. I've replaced the Drying agent redirection with a disambiguation page. ClairSamoht 04:28, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My apologies for that. I started the article drying agent not long ago, as a basic list of laboratory drying agents. I found a similar article, desiccant, and decided to merge the info there to prevent duplication, even though I very much prefer the term "drying agent". I didn't know the context for dammar oil was different. --Rifleman 82 06:18, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey, no reason for apologies. I should be thanking you instead. Thanks. "Many hands make for light work." Or, in this case, better work. I'm sure there are many people who think the reason you would use a drying oil instead of, say, alcohol, as a drying agent in paint is that alcohols tend to evaporate and oils don't. The result is that we got the Drying agent page, which otherwise I never would have thought to create. ClairSamoht 14:59, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Drying agent

message: Benefits of Essential Oils: http://www.talksofindia.com/benefits-essential-oils-hair-body/  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.242.62.121 (talk) 06:52, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added an entry for it. Thanks for mentioning it. Waitak 16:33, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Ojon oil

message: These are in the long run apparently fantasies.  Corn (maize) is one of the most efficient of all plants in capturing solar radiation (sunfall) and yet, in the U S "Cornbelt", averaged on an annual basis, corn captures only 0.7% (7/10ths of 1 percent) of the available sunfall.  Furthermore, even this poor performance is available only in the presence of huge amounts of irrigation/rainfall water and very large amounts of petrofertilizer. 
Undoubtedly, in the tropics, some better results are possible -- but not in the continental U S.  
This observation is made on the basis of information obtained privately from one of the leading agricultural laboratories in the Cornbelt.
So, folks, dust off your solar cells !!
.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.157.178.230 (talk) 14:33, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Biofuels : Fantasies for the U S 

message: I am not sure where to list Vernonia oil. -- Wavelength (talk) 16:31, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It doesn't seem to be a drying oil, from the writeup. The other reasonable place might be in the "Other oils" section. Would you like to take a shot at it? I'd be happy to look it over after you're done and tweak a bit if required. In particular, it would be great if you could supply a reference that describes the oil, its main properties, and uses. Thanks! Waitak (talk) 01:17, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  My apologies. You asked, and I didn't check carefully enough, but there already was an entry for Vernonia oil. Apparently I even wrote an article on it so that I'd have something to point to. Completely forgot. Sorry, and thank you for helping! Waitak (talk) 13:43, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vernonia oil 

message: Please find the right place to list Rubber seed oil. -- Wavelength (talk) 17:42, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rubber seed oil 

message: The Lead section begins by proposing 3 methods of extraction and then confuses them by mentioning more than 3 processes and some muddled chemistry. The following is my attempt, so far, to sort it out – which isn't yet complete. Anyone like to respond or contribute some clarity?
I went in there first to sort out what were the 3 processes that were being proposed. 
Expressed oils is clear enough.  But do centrifugally pressed oils – also usually pressed from a slurry that could be considered a leaching process – count here? Centrifugally pressed olive oil has virtually replaced true "pressed" oil, including virgin organic, in areas I am familiar with.
The section then goes on to describe dissolving the oils in solvents such as water.  Sorry, that's not chemically correct: oils are immiscible with water! They can form emulsions or, loosely speaking, suspensions (which primarily refer only to solids in liquids).
I began phrasing a dummy run like this (hampered by the  section which clearly needs to be self contained):
"There are several methods for extracting vegetable oils from plants. The relevant part of the plant may be placed under pressure to "extract" the oil, giving an expressed oil. Alternatively the part of the plant may be dispersed in a liquid to dissolve or leach out the oils.
The immiscible mixture, if water is used, can be separated by centrifuging. The resulting solution (if chemical solvation is used) is seperated by liquid-liquid seperation." 
Firstly, Leaching (chemical science), the link from leaching, is a stub that refers to metals and ores, not oils, only soluble food stuffs, such as sugar into water, even though I can see the process being alluded to.  Is solvent extraction what the original writers were getting at here?
Secondly, I've left the link brackets off of liquid-liquid seperation because that chemistry page, which also doesn't mention oils either, is what the link for maceration points at! Otherwise also known as solvent extraction.
"Thirdly(?), the mixture can be separated by distilling the oil away from the plant material. Oils extracted by distillation are called essential oils and often have different properties and uses than pressed or leached vegetable oils....."
I think that one is clear.
===Maceration===
Now this:
"//List of macerated oils|Macerated oils// are made by infusing parts of plants in a base oil a process known as //liquid-liquid extraction | maceration//."
The sentence needs to be a separate paragraph to avoid confusion as a method of extraction - that's if it should be there at all.  Do such a rarefied breed of oils need to be refered to up front together with ways of extracting all the major commercial oils? I suspect its there by confusion with the process of extraction of the bulk oil, and that the list of delightful flavoured macerated oils the link brings up are a red herring.
Also Maceration (food) is what I think is being got at here, not maceration (chemistry) which is basically solvent extraction again – according to the article the wikilink pulls up. Ok, it is solvent extracting the added herb etc into the oil, but then it is not extracting the herb back out again, as in the commercial process of the solvent extraction of oils from the plant, (extraction the oil back from the solvent) as I refered to earlier.
I'll leave this here for a few days, rather than edit in in, see what settles out: if nothing, I'll pull it together in a way I see fit and put it up.  Trev M  ~  00:45, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added a "Maceration" subheader, as there is a related thread at Talk:List of macerated oils currently. Your thoughts might be helpful over there. Thanks :) -- Quiddity (talk) 20:18, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clarifying lead section 

message: Now this:
"//List of macerated oils|Macerated oils// are made by infusing parts of plants in a base oil a process known as //liquid-liquid extraction | maceration//."
The sentence needs to be a separate paragraph to avoid confusion as a method of extraction - that's if it should be there at all.  Do such a rarefied breed of oils need to be refered to up front together with ways of extracting all the major commercial oils? I suspect its there by confusion with the process of extraction of the bulk oil, and that the list of delightful flavoured macerated oils the link brings up are a red herring.
Also Maceration (food) is what I think is being got at here, not maceration (chemistry) which is basically solvent extraction again – according to the article the wikilink pulls up. Ok, it is solvent extracting the added herb etc into the oil, but then it is not extracting the herb back out again, as in the commercial process of the solvent extraction of oils from the plant, (extraction the oil back from the solvent) as I refered to earlier.
I'll leave this here for a few days, rather than edit in in, see what settles out: if nothing, I'll pull it together in a way I see fit and put it up.  Trev M  ~  00:45, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added a "Maceration" subheader, as there is a related thread at Talk:List of macerated oils currently. Your thoughts might be helpful over there. Thanks :) -- Quiddity (talk) 20:18, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Maceration

message: Some of the "oils" on this page may be solid at room temperature, e.g. cocoa butter, shea butter, coconut butter, making them technically fats not oils. And of course a lot more can be hydrogenated to become solid. I think this should be mentioned in the article somewhere and maybe you could list them... I was wondering if there are any more. Fugyoo (talk) 19:45, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with this user. Not so much as having a list of butters or fats, but mentioning the difference somehwere would be helpful.Beefcake6412 (talk) 17:49, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  I've added a mention. See if you think this does it. Waitak (talk) 02:21, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fats vs oils 

message: * Replaced ramtil oil source with two sources
* Repaired dead link to peanut oil as diesel ref
* Repaired sunflower biodiesel ref link
* Repaired tung oil as biodiesel ref link
* Re-sourced and rewrote lemon oil Waitak (talk) 18:46, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Replacing dead links 

message: Doing this in a new section to avoid conflict with Waitak.
* Essential oil - http://www.talksofindia.com/benefits-essential-oils-hair-body/  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.242.62.121 (talk) 06:51, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: * Good point. I've added a reference to a journal paper that specifically talks about the oil. I haven't read it, but all we're attempting to do here is verify that the oil exists, and even just the title does that. Waitak (talk) 18:45, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

text: * The site hosts the complete text of (a former edition of) the book, so this allows folks to read it themselves, which wouldn't otherwise be possible. Waitak (talk) 18:45, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

text: * Well, because this list is meant to be comprehensive, I'd say that we need to have entries for anything that exists, even if only produced experimentally. It'd be fine, though, to mention that the oil does not appear to have been produced commercially. It's a bit tricky. To find out if an oil is produced commercially, the best thing is to see if there are commercial site that mention it, but then you can't cite them in the article without running afoul of WP:RS - even if the point you're making is that those very links exist. Not sure what the answer is. Back in the day, there were a number of editors who were dubious about the article because of its claim to be comprehensive. At this point, I think we're on pretty solid ground, particularly because this has become the single place on the Internet where people go to ask about weird oils, and we always add them if they're asked about. Waitak (talk) 18:45, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

text: I'm getting close to finishing, I think. Another day or two (by the middle of next week, say) and I think I'll have exhausted replacing questionable sources (not to mention exhausting me, but that's a separate question...), and rewriting entries. Waitak (talk) 18:45, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll probably take a little longer to go through, but suspect that your work so far will limit the amount of additional stuff I find. 86.** IP (talk) 19:59, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Okay, I'm going to call this pass done. I would like to fill in a few stubs sometime next week, but I think that's about it for references. I would, of course, be happy to have at anything that you find that I've missed. The next step, I suppose, it to collect the references that we're not sure of and post a list to WP:RS/N for them to comment on. Thereafter, it's over to Neelix for his TFL nomination, if he still wants to do that. Waitak (talk) 23:48, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Additional notes

message: I've submitted an initial RFC at the Reliable Sources Noticeboard, and removed the  tags (since a review of the sources in now publicly in process). I'm pretty much done replacing references, I think, but am happy to bring anything that any editors find questionable to public scrutiny. You might find this to be entertaining... it's the composite edits that have happened in the last week. The article has gone from 63,696 and 159 citations to 76,846 bytes and 179 citations in less than a week. I think that well over 60% of the sources have been replaced, and dozens of entries rewritten. It's a much stronger article now.
Let me know when you're done, and we'll do whatever cleanup's left to do and get this thing put to bed. Thanks again for the help. Waitak (talk) 02:34, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we're done. Anything left before we remove the under construction tag, ask to close the FLRC discussion and move on? Waitak (talk) 18:34, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think we ought to poke Judith again first. She had concerns, we should make sure they cleared. 86.** IP (talk) 18:49, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  That's fine. Would you mind taking lead on that? Waitak (talk) 18:52, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: She says she'll look soon. =) 86.** IP (talk) 20:19, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Finishing up 

message: I posted a request to Wikipedia talk:Identifying reliable sources asking about how to indicate that an oil is used commercially without running afoul of WP:RS. Waitak (talk) 16:42, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, for some, it's obvious - the source already says they are. 86.** IP (talk) 16:56, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Commercial links 

message: The reason for the Targanine reference under argan oil is that Targanine is the project that IDRI has used to help women in Africa via producing argan oil. The organization itself is relevant to the story of the oil, and is fairly extensively discussed in the reference just before this one. (I also know French, and was able to look through the site before including it as a reference.) Waitak (talk) 23:23, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Understood, just marking it to be run by RSN. 86.** IP (talk) 15:43, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  That's fine, but we ought to include a brief explanation of why it's there as well when we do. Waitak (talk) 23:34, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Mainly because simply being a charity isn't, in itself, sufficient reason to be considered a reliable source. There's charities that promote all sorts of crazy stuff. This one seems a quite good one, with respectable goals and aims, but it should probably be run by RSN for checking, nonetheless. 86.** IP (talk) 12:28, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  I've been thinking about this one, and I think I may change strategies. I've turned Targanine into an external link, and added a ref to a source (in French, sorry!) that discusses it. Waitak (talk) 15:48, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Targanine 

message: I didn't make it through every entry (I'll try to do so, but I'm a little low on time at the moment), but Waitak did; I found a few minor cases where oil was confused with some other part of the plant, and some sourcing issues, which the radical overhaul will have checked. While there was a little sloppiness in some of the early fixes - failure to update material referenced to a questionable source to the material in the new source - once I pointed out that was happening, that stopped, and I believe we got all of it.   I certainly don't think that it needs to be delisted anymore, the sourcing was the only major problem, and that's fixed.
Now, of course, there may be some minor issues left. It has, after all, just gone through a major reworking, so some polishing of language and such may well happen. There's also a few things it might be nice to have in an ideal world, but which would require substantial original research to find out; for example, it'd be nice to know which oils are commercialised, and which are experimental, but while we can show ones that are commercialised fairly trivially (and do), we can never prove that an oil had solely experimental use, since there's no way to check every company, on and off web, in every language to see if they sell it after all.
So, yes, while there may be minor room for improvement (and it's always possible that someone could find an oil we missed, given the list strives for absolute completeness, which one can never prove), I think this is definitely amongst  Wikipedia's best work, and deserves FL. This is extremely good work by Waitak.
That said, we may as well ask the FL regulars to look over it. It'll happen either now or at whatever they call the put-it-on-the-main-page discussion. 
86.** IP (talk) 20:08, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Semi-final thoughts

message: Oh, one more thing: Do we need to make stub articles for the red links? 86.** IP (talk) 20:29, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I've now forgotten where I read it, but this list is in the style manual and in a number of discussions about other lists, as an example. In at least one of them, it was noted that a smattering of red links is actually a good thing, because it invites editors to contribute. That said, the number of them is a bit more than I'm comfortable with, so I've started on some stubs (Sapote oil was the first), and will likely do a few more, albeit as a lot more leisurely pace than the last week has seen. Waitak (talk) 22:34, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  I've changed a few of the remaining red links to point to sections within articles. I think the number of them is now low enough that it shouldn't raise any concerns. Waitak (talk) 19:02, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Red links 

message: Seed oils is a small list of links to pressed oil pages, all of which are also here. I don't see any value in having the separate list. Waitak (talk) 13:41, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Makes sense to me. Neelix (talk) 03:02, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  If no-one has any objections, I'm going to go ahead and replace seed oils with a redirect tomorrow. Waitak (talk) 15:36, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Done. Waitak (talk) 20:08, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merging [[seed oils]] 

message: I've nominated List of culinary nuts as a featured list candidate. This is part of an effort to increase the number of food and drink-related featured lists. Currently there's just List of vegetable oils. This is an invitation to participate in the discussion. It's unlikely that the candidacy will be successful if no interest is shown in the article nomination. If the application is successful, I plan to bring a number of other food and drink-related lists up to featured list quality, and go through the nomination process. Waitak (talk) 16:36, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  New featured list candidate 

message: link for article for use of peanut oil as a biofuel does not work, google search reveals the only place that this article exists is in fact on wikipedia on this page - can someone independently verify and then delete if necessary? 
using a site like "journey to forever" as a reference is pretty bloody dodgy Shuggyg (talk) 00:13, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources 

message: I should like to add mastic oil, a by-product of Mastic (plant resin), but I am not sure which header should it be placed under. It is primarily used for medicinal purposes (particularly dental care and as an anti-oxidant), but it is also edible, at least in minor quantities in pastry and the like. I'm afraid I don't have access to any references, so if anyone feels like having a go I think it would make a great addition to this -otherwise impressive (!)- article. Thank you --Chrysalifourfour (talk) 09:29, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: A quick Google search turns up a journal article, a drugs.com reference, this presentation by an Italian professor, and a Plants For a Future entry that includes some references that you might check. I'd put it (in alphabetical order) in the "Other oils" section. Go for it! Waitak (talk) 16:42, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mastic oil 

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