Talk:Transnistria/Archive 12

message: I don't see anymore Yakovlev's comments, about which I discussed long time ago in this talk page (now archived), nobody expressed any opposition to include them in the article, were included afterwards in the article and nobody reverted that. However, our friend Mauco took the opportunity that I was not active in Wikipedia few days and removed those comments without any disscussion here. A quick look at the article shows other changes, like a  added near the mention about ban of political parties, while this is sourced few sentences bellow, removal of a paragraph about Moldovan schools etc.--MariusM 23:29, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Welcome back. Check the edit log - it has your answer, with a complete edit comment as to why. - Mauco 00:08, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have to remind you that you don't have veto rights on this article. Yakovlev comments (good or bad, is not our job to be for or against Yakovlev) were part of the article for long time, nobody expressed oposition against this paragraph. You are defying all other editors removing this part.--MariusM 09:41, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

text: In 16 November 03:34 Mauco told: "Go ahead and mention Yakovlev if he is notable". Why did you changed your mind, Mauco? Full disscusion about Yakovlev in archive 9 --MariusM 09:52, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  The Yakovlev comment referred to what he claimed was supposedly a deterioting economic situation. When we added the latest info (GDP per capita up 17% year-on-year) it was clear that Yakovlev was wrong misleadingly wrong. Just sour grapes from an old communist who doesn't even live there. Time proved him wrong, and Wikipedia is not written in stone. The idea, over time, is to try to make each article better. - Mauco 03:04, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: For GDP increase you have an unrealiable source: Tiraspol Times. Mark Street, editor of Tiraspol Times, who edited Wikipedia, is the same person who wrote that children are dying in Transnistria (because some bad Wikipedians). He is not even consistent with his propaganda, or he adjust it considering the audience. Anyhow, Yakovlev is telling about very specific things - his village of Mikhailovka, and nobody denied what he wrote. I suggested to Mark Street to make a reportage in Mikhailovka village, to check if Yakovlev is not lying. He didn't followed my advice.--MariusM 16:25, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Question for Pernambuco: Why you deleted the paragraph about Yakovlev which was agreed in November by all editors?--MariusM 16:25, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  You are talking about something that you do not know about, can you show me where I did this? My only work is to restore the page, I have only made one single edit that changed it, and it was on 23 december, and it was not a deletion, it was a move where I took a paragraph and moved it into a different place, I never delete anything like you do, so stop accusing everyone of everything, I will keep my eye on you from now on, you are not a really good Wikipedian when you act like this against others. Pernambuco 16:58, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  This revert by you included the deletion of Yakovlev opinions. I understand that you reverted blindly this paragraph, without being aware exactly what you are reverting. I understand the situation but in future please look with atention what you are reverting. It is not a situation of "me against others", I just re-added paragraphs which were part of the article for long time and silently removed without discussion in talk page. I think is a situation "Mauco against others", and you were caught in this dispute not being fully aware about the history of the page (you should check also the talks in archives). I don't mind if you keep an eye on me, I am proud of my editing record.--MariusM 17:33, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Yakovlev's comments dissapeared

message: An other paragraph which was part of the article for long time - "Border issues" - was removed by Mauco during my short wikibreak. This is linked with the article List of unrecognized countries, where Mauco want to move Transnistria in the section with unrecognized countries with "full" control over their territorry, while I want to keep it in the section "partial" control over territorry, based exactly on information about border issues. Mauco censored the border issues section in this article, in order to remove the arguments against his position on the other article (I was reffering at Transnistria article in the disputes on the other article). I re-added back this section and I hope Mauco will refrain to start a new edit war about it.--MariusM 09:45, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not removed be me. Please assume good faith. I made some other edits, just like a lot of other people did (and keep doing every day), but not this particular one. Anyway, the border detail section is now located where it belongs (in the detailed article on Disputed status of Transnistria) and a summary line is included here, and I fully agree with the editor who did this that it is the correct approach. Remember the golden rule: "Details there, summary here." - Mauco 13:23, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed, I saw that border issues section was removed by User:Pernambuco. Apologies for my mistake. Anyhow, Pernambuco should first explain in talk his edits, especially when he remove something that was stable in this unstable article for 3 1/2 months and nobody objected to it.--MariusM 18:09, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

text: The article can't do without Border issues. We should say what region we are talking about.Dl.goe 16:49, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  That is already there (it says Transnistria). Want more? The details can be seen with one mouseclick. That is right approach. It is done that way in the other parts, too (history, internal politics, human rights, referendum, the Ukraine border dispute, and so on). - Mauco 16:54, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Border issues are an ongoing problem - are necesarry. Only section which is not necesarry according your golden rule "Details there, summarry here" is the referendum section.--MariusM 17:40, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that they are necessary, but do we need all details on this page. I think it makes more sense to just keep one sentence mentioning their existence here, with details available in the subpage. TSO1D 17:53, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, they are necesarry. They were in the article from 4 September, why suddenly they are not necesarry? What is your opinion about referendum section?--MariusM 17:59, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it should be mentioned but not in great detail. One line summarizing the results and a link to the main article should suffice in my view. TSO1D 19:42, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

text:  I checked the archives, and it was added without any discussion, and then it was duplicated in another article, it is bad that someone says "he should explain" when my edit line did explain this, and I just moved it into the right article where it belongs. I did not remove any information but just ordered it, sorted it out the right way.This is on the rule that all of you have here, where you decide on the details in one place, and the summary in the main space, and so on. I am not taking sides, but I have to do a good job, and all this edit war stuff between the two camps, I have to say, honest, it is not helping the article Pernambuco 21:59, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  The rule is not upheld in practice. Take a look at the human rights section, or internal politics, for instance. - Mauco 03:01, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  You do not follow it either mr Mauco, but right now it is important all of you need to stop that edit war, and I will keep restoring the article if you all keep doing it. Pernambuco 15:34, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Regarding border issues, is you, Pernambuco who started the edit war. Is amazing to see the person who stated the edit war asking others to stop it. Border issues section was part of the article for 3 and a half months, there were thousand edits in Transnistria article during that time, nobody was against border issues section (not even in the other thousands edits in talk page). COntrary, some other editors added more details at this section. Suddenly, Pernambuco deleted the section without any discussion in talk.--MariusM 16:14, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I am not an edit warrior and I never take sides, I did one single move, it is here http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Transnistria&diff=prev&oldid=96140706, and I explained it on the 23 december, with my edit log comment. There was no information removed, it was moved into the right place, and every one else liked it, then you show up here, and complain, but it was one single move and it was not an edit war. I do not edit this article a lot, the rest that I have done since is just to revert the p.o.v. changes, so do not accuse me of edit warrior, I ask Pernambuco 16:51, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Not every one else liked your move, as you can see in the last 2 days that you were reverted not only by me, but by Dlgoe and Diana Teodorescu as well. Don't take it personally, it happens in Wikipedia that other editors don't agree with some of your edits. People don't want to look in tens articles to find information about Transnistria, important information should be in the main article also.--MariusM 17:15, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  MariusM, why do you always team up with Bonaparte? Mauco 01:21, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Border issues

message: I do not understand this edit remark: "please provide reference if you want to enter the word isolated" with regards to "violent incidents." The incidents are listed in the article (with references). There are very few, and they are spread out over a long period of time. They also did not happen in the whole country, but just in a few, specific points. If there were more, and if they happened all the time, all over the place, they would not be isolated. But they are precisely isolated because they are NOT frequent. Maybe English is not your first language, but please understand the difference between isolated and non-isolated, frequent, common, routine, etc. - Mauco 17:16, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The word isolated implies a judgment and is a point of view. Can one draw a line between isolated and non-isolated? Which is this line? The violent incidents are listed, and so is the size of the region. The reader should judge whether they are isolated or not. I think NPOV includes presenting the facts without judging them.Dl.goe 17:30, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, using the word isolated makes a judgment that shouldn't be added. I think the same for goes for the crime sections, where the word allegations has been added before smuggling and weapons trade. Yes, many of the claims are unsubstantiated allegations, others are claims supported by evidence, and all of this is explained within the paragraphs. I don't think it's necessary to add a descriptor in the title of the section. TSO1D 17:58, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

text: The fact that the press uses the term doesn't mean that it doesn't include a judgment behind it. Personally I agree that the incidents of domestic terrorism in Transnistria are isolated, however I still think it's best to lay out the facts without any qualifications. As for allegations of... I don't really care too much but see what you mean; without the word it could be interpreted that a statement is made. TSO1D 03:03, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Oh, I know that the press is using POV-judgment when they refer to the Kosovo mess as "isolated incidents". I am not that naive, TSO1D, and maybe I was being provocative with that particular example. But I think (well, hope) that over time we will see that in the case of Transnistria, these incidents ARE indeed isolated. So far, it doesn't look like there is a concerted campaign of bombings or violence, and certainly no specific purpose or pattern to it either. "Isolated" is not so much a value judgment, in my eyes, as it is merely the most accurate description that we can come up with to quickly explain to the reader what is actually going on. And that, as you know, must be our overriding concern as editors. - Mauco 03:08, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In the last months 2 explosions in Tiraspol (described as "terrorist" by authorities and used for arresting pro-Moldovan activists before the referendum) and also one explosion in Tighina (which is not listed in our article). Seems not isolated for me. Anyhow, is best only to list them and let the reader to decide.--MariusM 13:23, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  The activists were brought in for questioning, then released. Two explosions in one year is hardly a crime wave or a terrorist wave. Of course these acts were "isolated", and to pretend that they were not (as EvilAlex wants, and you seem to want too) is highly biased POV. The simple question is: Did these acts take place on a persistent basis, all over Transnistria? No, they did not. - Mauco 13:48, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We should not pretend incidents are isolated or are not isolated. We should just list the incidents and let the readers to decide.--MariusM 16:26, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

text:  I also think that "isolated" in the heading sounds a little POV, and agree with MariusM's last opinion that we should let the readers decide and just lay out the facts. Also, this is my point of view and should not be in the article, I think that the incedents aren't very isolated anyway. They maybe few if you look at statistics since 1990, but they are quite a lot for just one year for one very small region/country. Jonathanpops 17:08, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Isolated violent incidents 

message: This article needs a lot of work, it's full of russian propaganda.--Diana Teodorescu 14:33, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: you removed the information box? I am not sure that other people will agree with this, why did you not discuss this before you did it, now I am forced to restore the page again .........Pernambuco 16:52, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

text: It is not just the infobox, look at all the damage you did to the article, here http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Transnistria&diff=97140358&oldid=97134870 it is vandalism, that it what it is, and sorry if I offend you, but I call it a spade when it is a spade. You can at least discuss these things first Pernambuco 18:16, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Work

message: This paragraph was reverted by both Mauco and Pernambuco: In Transnistria the right of citizens to change their government was severely restricted.[...]Transnistrian authorities harassed independent media and opposition lawmakers, restricted freedom of association and of religion, and discriminated against Romanian-speakers.[...]Transnistrian authorities regularly harassed and often detained persons suspected of being critical of the regime for periods of up to several months.U.S. Department of State referring to year 2005</blockquote>. May I asked those editors why they consider irrelevant the position of US Department of State?--MariusM 16:35, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No that was not removed by me, if you accuse me of something that I did not do, then please show me the link. I have only made one single edit to this page in the many recent weeks, and it was on 23 of december, and since then, I have not done anything except restoring from when you and your friends went crazy on the page and undid a lot of the work of the other users, so please do not accuse me like that without showing me the proof, mr Marius. Pernambuco 17:12, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Here is an example from yesterday when you removed not only "border issues" sections, but also US Department of State position and the paragraph with Yakovlev position. Also, you removed Travel warnings.--MariusM 17:07, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Not removed, this is a revert of some radical changes by you and your friends, if you look at the log you will see that all I did was to restore to an earlier version. I dont know who removed it from the earlier version, but I know it was not me, I know my work and I am very carefull when I make my edits because I know that some of you people here are hot heads that likes to fight with every body..  and I refuse to take sides, so do not accuse me of things that I have never done Pernambuco 17:12, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK. Just state your position: Is the opinion of U.S. Department of State relevant for this article?--MariusM 17:19, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

text: BTW, other editors that disagree with you are not my friends. I know them only from Wikipedia.--MariusM 17:21, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thats something the others must figure out, I take no sides, and remember, each editor must defend his edits, so the person who added it must explain why it has to stay and the person who deleted it must explain why it has to be deleted, and someone who does not want to take sides can not be forced to take sides, but you have a side, and it is obvious, it is even obvious to someone who is a newcomer like me  . Pernambuco 17:25, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

text: but you are so fast when you accuse others, did you see who added it? the person that did it, did not talk about it here, and did not explain it, so that counts as the same kind of behavior. I am not taking a side, but both of you are guilty of the same thing, you are guilty of what you accuse the other person of. Pernambuco 18:14, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: US Department of State position

message: Let me first explain my edit:
:1. I added:
In Transnistria: the right of citizens to change their government was severely restricted.[...]Transnistrian authorities harassed independent media and opposition lawmakers, restricted freedom of association and of religion, and discriminated against Romanian-speakers.[...]Transnistrian authorities regularly harassed and often detained persons suspected of being critical of the regime for periods of up to several months.[...]In Transnistria, homosexuality was illegal, and gays and lesbians were subject to governmental and societal discrimination.U.S. Department of State referring to year 2005
to Human Rights chapter.
We say critics claim... we should provide a quote.
:2. I added templates to all content under discussion
:3. Suggested Transnistrian separatist side / Moldovan antiseparatist side for external links section. I find it a good compromise.
My edit summary was:I added templates before all content under discussion. Please don't rv this edit as it contains many changes that deserve to be treated separately.
You reverted: rv POV hijack.
I feel insulted by the way you don't need to comment my edits before reverting them. You remove even the templates that announce discussions. This is like saying that my opinion is completely negligible to you.Dl.goe 17:40, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Happy to see the article is equally repudiated by all extremes!  jamason 18:17, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Was that all you did, no it was not, look at the mess you made http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Transnistria&diff=97140358&oldid=97134870  and sorry if I offend, but this http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Transnistria&diff=97140358&oldid=97134870  is vandalism, you can not go around and do this and not discuss it first with anyone, you have never worked on this page before, I admit, I do not do a lot here but I have been here longer than you and everyone is always fighting.. Pernambuco 18:22, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

text: "Diana is not a vandal". Sorry, buddy: Diana is Bonaparte. You can hardly get more vandalistic than that. - Mauco 01:29, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Will you look at the link, just http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Transnistria&diff=97140358&oldid=97134870 and then see what went wrong, and do not accuse me of making a mess, like I said, I have made one single edit to the page, and that was on 23 of december, and all the rest of the time, I have only saved it from extremists who went and changed it without making a discussion first, if you want to defend these changes, then discuss them first, otherwise I will keep doing my job. I almost never edit here and I never take sides, but i have to defend Wikipedia, that comes first, so please review these two versions and tell me which one is best. You and Diana and DI.goe will not even allow Trasnistria to have each own links, what is that all about, I thought that this was already voted on? Where are the links now? Pernambuco 18:45, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nobody should take this personally. Is not really important if we call Dniester or Nistru, we have more important content issues in this article.--MariusM 19:16, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  in my opinion it is important, this is English wikipedia, use English names, or I will edit in Brazilian (Portuguese) wikipedia and you can edit in Romanian or Russian, or what it is, but in English, use the names that are used in English... Pernambuco 19:32, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I admit that I am new, but so are you, and we are not the experts, it is best to wait until some of the more experienced users appear again, and let us hear their opinion, but my impression from what I read in the news is that Transnistria is Russian speaking, that most of the people in that region of Moldova speak russian and not romanian or moldavian. But it does not matter, this is English wikipedia so please use the English names Pernambuco 19:53, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I am not understanding, who is the vandal, I need to know if it is me who is being called a vandal? because I never deleted a single paragraph from the article, I just took your border section and moved it into the right place. The other edits that you complain about was done by other people, for instance, this new user Diana who registered yesterday, she has removed half of the article without any discussion, and I agree with you, like you say, this is vandalism, we have to revert it to save the article. - —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pernambuco (talk • contribs) 20:04, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Sorry, Mauco, you made new misleading comments. I didn't defend Diana - allegedly Bonaparte - I defended MY OWN EDITS. I was the one who added Border issues section on this article in 4 September, nobody was against it in 3 1/2 months but this section was removed without any discussion in 23 December. Also, I was the one who added the paragraph about Yakovlev's opinions, after general agreement in talk page, and I saw you (and after you, Pernambuco) reverted the paragraph, again without explanation in talk page. I was the one who initially added the paragraph about US Department of State position which was also reverted. Also, I expressed in talk page my opinion for keeping paragraph with travel warnings, which was removed without general agreement. Fact that Diana - allegedly Bonaparte - has the same opinions with me is not a disqualification for my opinions. A lot of persons agree with me for a lot of things, I am not responsible for who they are. You can not remove paragraphs in this article only because Bonaparte was for keeping them.--MariusM 20:36, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Why lie? Of course you defended the edits of Bonaparte's sockpuppet "Diana". When the others (Pernambuco, Jonathanpops and Illythr) were busy and kept preventing this vandal from destroying the article, you even changed right back to it. Proof here. A version with a picture of Mihai Eminescu instead of Suvorov? Yes, "defending your own edits" indeed. - Mauco 20:47, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[User:William Mauco|Mauco]] reverts

message: Don't revert, when users disagree about neutrality, it is normal for the article to have a POV tag until the differences are worked out as long as the differences are being worked out. The tag simply shows that there is a serious disagreement on article's neutrality and users are working on it. The discussion on the talk page shows the work in process. Here we have the work in process, neutrality is disputed in a very clear way and yet you and other users are in denial and persist in attempts to hide the dispute from Wikipedians by removing the text. My goal is not lecturize and even less so "impress" you. I call on you to respect the disagreement and stop trying to sweep it under the rug by hiding the POV text. All I said is that there's a mechanism in the policy and if this continues, I will have to use it (file report). I think you have a great knowledge and I admire your perseverance for trying to redeem the image of the otherwise quite dubious, illegal criminal Transnistrian government but you have to understand that some facts are just there to stay and that real facts are very hard to manipulate and you should give it up right now. However, if you are sincerely trying to commit to this article, then I think we can work something out. Which is why I ask you to stop pushing your POV or maybe is better not to edit this article for a while.--Diana Teodorescu 22:04, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ( The above comment is from permabanned user Bonaparte. See User:Diana Teodorescu. It could be removed, but I decided "just" to strike it. It shows how the pot is often the first to call the kettle black, here on Wikipedia. - Mauco 01:34, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

text: One of the five pillars of Wikipedia, the Wikiquette includes a guideline of how to work towards NPOV. You have ignored that guideline and introduced your changes without any prior discussion. That is why I and other editors reverted you. The fact that Pernambuco got blocked for it is a shame. --Illythr 23:03, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, I noticed that. It was the contribution of our fellow collaborator MariusM. But as far as I can tell, Pernambuco was just reverting a sockpuppet of a banned user. That should not be grounds for blocking. MariusM is way too fast to report others for 3RR. I can not see how Pernambuco will be happy about this from now on. - Mauco 01:41, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tags 

message: We worked hard on that. It should not be touched further, for the foreseeable future. - Mauco 02:06, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Although I agree that the actual text should not be amended until an agreement is reached on the talk page, I don't believe that a complete moratorium is needed. There are several points which I would like to bring up and you also mentioned some. Hopefully we can slowly reach a consensus on those issues as well. The introduction in the current state is far from satisfying Wikipedia guidelines as set out in WP:LEAD. After all, quality is more important than stability. TSO1D 02:14, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, it is, and I agree. I also noted that you included it in your to-do list (which was largely ignored while everyone else battled about Yakovlev sections and travel warnings and what not). I was not looking for a moratorium but so maybe the wording "for the foreseeable future" was too strong. My main intention was just to get an idea of where all of us are more or less in agreement, so we don't let minor issues become hurdles. - Mauco 02:21, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I support this compromise: keep without any changes the way that it is now, then later change it after there has been the slow reaching of consensus with agreement reached on the talk page that User:TSO1D says Pernambuco 20:47, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  At this point it is likely impossible to attain more than a single paragraph we all agree on. I believe the best approach is to resolve/agree to the contents of each section, at which time the introduction can then be made into a more complete synopsis of the article. (Especially as even the current one was cut down from a more complete version because it was too cluttered.)  —  Pēters J. Vecrumba 17:07, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Deal. In that case, please stand up for the current intro and restore it if/when Bonaparte+EvilAlex+MariusM attempts to change it (as they did repeatedly in the last week of December, leading to the current full page protection). - Mauco 13:54, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Intro

message: Ditto. (We worked hard on that already). Try to not remove links, add links, change link headers, link location. - Mauco 02:06, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That I can definitely agree with. Although I don't like some of the sources there, that section has brought enough conflict already. Better let it go for now. TSO1D 02:14, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I wouldn't mind seeing Olvia in there. I never saw the site before today and it seems quite good. Jonathanpops 18:55, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Mauco wants to keep the links unchanged but Jonathanpops want to have Olvia in there and I agree with that, I also agree with transdniesteria.com, and I am neutral with regarding transdniester.com Pernambuco 20:51, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Olvia is the official press organ of the PMR regime and should be/remain noted as such.   As for transdniester.com and transdniestria.com, they are both registered to the same U.K. address for York Interweb (Jonathan Malory and Nikola Makarovskyi, respectively). They both run off the same web server, as do 50+ other web sites, so a regular web business. There was some wailing and gnashing of teeth a while back that Jonathanpops might be Jonathan Malory, but that's neither here nor there, just that I'm aware of it and ignoring it with reference to the following...   Viewing the "language" question as a barometer, transdniester.com reports mainly about the ubiquitousness of Russian, every other language is in second place--neither objective nor informative.   Viewing its "Transnistria Poll" which shows 58% vote yes on should the world acknowledge Transnistria, 16% no--with the very first "Yes" vote registered to pridnestrovie.net, the official government site. I would classify transdniestria.com as biased toward the PMR.   These sites appear to be attempts to generate ad revenue off of Transnistria (for example, Tiraspol Times google ads appear on Transdniester.com).  —  Pēters J. Vecrumba 21:47, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  There is ongoing debate on the external links section. The main issue for MariusM was whether or not the link to http://www.tiraspoltimes.com should be removed, and that has been settled now. It stays (see section below). Now, we can either decide on a temporary moratorium on not touching the current list of external links, or we discuss this further. I initially suggested leaving well enough alone, in the interest of minimizing the number of controversial areas that we have to deal with, and thus getting the page back to an unprotected status again sooner. But there are some interesting suggestions for links (from D1.goe, Pernambuco, Jonathanpops) which are not intended to disrupt but to make the page better. Should we review the entire link section now? Or is it better to leave that for later? - Mauco 13:42, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: External links.

message: Uncontroversial? Do not touch it, then. - Mauco 02:06, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, there is nothing controversial in the names, this section can stay with no changes Pernambuco 20:51, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  MariusM has a proposal for shortening the section or removing it altogether. I don't know why he added at the end of the page, instead of bringing it here and discussing it here. - Mauco 20:07, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Names

message: There is a sentence which touches on border disputes ("Tighina (Bender) and its surrounding area on the river's west bank is controlled by Transnistria, while some villages near Dubăsari on the east bank are under Moldovan control") and in the next section, below, there is also a sentence about that ("There are unsettled border issues with conflicting claims on both sides.").
My proposal. Unify the two. Bring the second sentence up, and place it right before the first. Then it will flow nice. It will thus read: "There are unsettled border issues with conflicting claims on both sides. Tighina (Bender) and its surrounding area on the river's west bank is controlled by Transnistria, while some villages near Dubăsari on the east bank are under Moldovan control." This is a nice and full-bodied summary, which then links to the detail which can be found in Disputed status of Transnistria. - Mauco 02:06, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with that. TSO1D 02:15, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I too agree with this Pernambuco 14:30, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Geography

message: I don't remember who started this, but please stop calling each other's reverts/edits "vandalism". Clearly, none of the regulars here (except, perhaps, Boni) participate by deliberately attempting to compromise the integrity of Wikipedia. Obviously, what we have here is a POV conflict, instead. I'm asking this because I noticed that when an editor reverts something with a strong edit summary (like "reverting idiotic bullshit KGB/CIA propaganda/vandalism"), they are usually not helping to improve the NPOV of the article, themselves. Here, however, nearly everyone accuses their opposition of vandalism, thus jamming my simple POV sensor. Sorry for being so egotistic/obvious, but, eh, I think that had to be said. :-) --Illythr 10:59, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism accusations 

message: Border issues paragraph was added by me in 4 September . During 3 1/2 months (and more than a thousands edits in main space, other thousands in talk page) nobody objected against this paragraph. Contrary, some editors even developped the paragraph. In 23 December Pernambuco removed tha paragraph without explanation in talk page, and after that Mauco agreed with Pernambuco's position (while before he didn't have the idea of removing this paragraph and never complained about it). Pernambuco's justification is that we have an other article where this paragraph is appropiate - Disputed status of Transnistria. However, I consider not valid this argument, as (i)"Disputed status of Transnistria" is not about border issues (yes, we can mention the issues there as well, but are not the main subject of the article); (ii)Border issues is an important and on-going problem; (iii)Usually, Wikipedia readers don't make thoroughfull research on 100+ Wiki articles we have about Transnistria, they look only at main article, from where they should be able to understand all the main issues.--MariusM 20:59, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Sure. Whatever you say, my friend. You ALWAYS challenge Tiraspol Times. If I didn't know any better, I would think that you had a clinical fixation on it. It even required admin intervention. - Mauco 23:42, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Is the section eliminated? No, it is not. It is in the right location now. Details there, summary here. - Mauco 23:11, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I was wondering why you didn't share your views on the less controversial ground rules and the request for a gentlemen's agreement. It is one paragraph above this one. Just scroll up and let us hear what you have to say. - Mauco 23:10, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

text: It is still not controversial. It never was. But some other editor took the correct initiative to move it into the right place, and some of the rest of us just happen agree with him/her. Now it is located where it belongs. - Mauco 00:52, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "Some of the rest being only you". I don't see anybody else defending your position.--MariusM 10:30, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Beware of the silent majority. :-) I didn't want to start (yet another) edit war, so I refrained from editing it. But in my opinion, the issues should indeed be only summarized here, because their status remains frozen, that is, there were no major political (and, thankfully, military) conflicts about them for years. Also note that the Georgraphy section provides a short overview as well. --Illythr 12:29, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  hello, this is Pernambuco, I am the person who made this move, so of course I defend my own edit, you can add my name to the list of the people who defend this position. Like I have already said before on this page, I never deleted anything, I just put it in the right section in the right article, so why do I have to repeat it and why is it a big deal Pernambuco 14:29, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  There is also section 9.4 above (subheaded "Geography") where this is discussed, and more support is given. - Mauco 16:24, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

text: I failed to notice the "Border issues" sections in either of those two articles. I also couldn't find "Crime" and "Human Rights" sections there. Does that mean we should remove them here as well? Also note that in South Ossetia, the Georgian-controlled villages are numerous and are situated all over the region, whereas in Transnistria they form the suburbs of two districts. I think that a short mention is enough. The full list can be moved to Disputed status of Transnistria (oh, it's alredy there) and, perhaps into the Administrative Region of Dubăsari. Could you also pinpoint where the Georgian-controlled territory/villages is/are listen in the Abkhazia article? --Illythr 12:39, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Check here. The section is not called "border issues, is called "De jure government of Abkhazia" but it is an entire section explaining that not the entire Abkhazia territorry is controlled by separatists. Adding the fact that Kodori region is mentioned on the map, the reader has an overview about who control what from the main article. Same about South Ossetia, where the map is very informative. Do you want to change the section name from "Border issues" to something like "Territory controlled by de jure government"? I preferr border issues because is shorter, but I would not mind for a name change. Main issue is that info about unsettled disputes about Transnistria's territorry should stay in the main article. Those disputes are hot points, even in 2006 was a conflict in Varniţa, in 2005 in Doroţcaia. Those border issues can be the start for new conflicts, info is important.--MariusM 13:05, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  No. MariusM is wrong. The Doroţcaia incident was solved in early 2006, with a signed agreement between the two sides that was brokered by the OSCE. Varnitsa was quelled later in 2006, thanks to Russian intervention. Oh, and Russia sided with Moldova. We never hear that. It was reported widely in Russian, but no one took the time to translate it to English or Romanian. (Except one source: "Russia sides with Moldova in Varnitsa standoff"). From the Moldovan side, we always hear how "Russia supports the separatists", etc etc. In reality, it is not so clear cut. The chauvenists are quick to blame Russia for all ills, but will never mention it when the shoe is on the other foot. - Mauco 13:52, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

text: It has but one sentence on the territory issue. But if you click the 2006 Kodori crisis or Upper Abkhazia links - you get the info. Still, I'd support the inclusion of a more detailed map, that clearly shows who's controlling what, in this article. --Illythr 13:51, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Actually, if the main Abkhazia artcle has just one sentence, then we should have none. In Abkhazia, the territory which is not controlled by Abkhazia is much, much larger than the two small border pockets which are not controlled by the PMR government in Transnistria. The situation is also not comparable AT ALL to the patchwork of South Ossetia. Please don't overplay your hand here, MariusM. There is nothing wrong with pushing for your border info. But in the right place, please. - Mauco 13:56, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: How you tell: "if". But there is an entire subsection - "De jure government of Abkhazia". If they have a subsection, we can have a subsection too. Anyhow, it was not a long section.--MariusM 12:17, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Border issues section

message: We disscussed the adition long time ago in this talk page (now archived), nobody expressed any opposition to include them in the article. In 16 November 03:34 Mauco told: "Go ahead and mention Yakovlev if he is notable". Full disscusion about Yakovlev in archive 9 . Nobody reverted the comments until my short wikibreak at Christmas, when Mauco took the opportunity, silently.--MariusM 22:04, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The Yakovlev information was mildly interesting and maybe marginally relevant at the time. There was an election campaign going on. As a former Transnistrian politician, and a diehard communist, Yakovlev was trying to mount a letter writing campaign against one candidate (Smirnov) and in favor of another (Bondarenko). But then it fizzled out. He got his main points published in various places (including Tiraspol Times) and it was fun for a few days, but what significance did it really have? The world is full of disgruntled ex-politicians who write letters to the newspapers criticizing their opponents. That doesn't mean that Wikipedia is forced to give all of these letters a prominence which they don't deserve. Other encyclopedias (Britannica, Encarta, etc) would never give him as much as even a footnote. - Mauco 22:33, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  If we want to shorten the article we have a lot of other sentences, less relevant, to remove. For example, In the central square of Tiraspol there is a statue of Alexander Suvorov, who in 1792 founded modern Tiraspol as a Russian border fortress, is relevant for Tiraspol, not for this article (at "internal politics" section).--MariusM 18:41, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Right, but we are not discussing those. Discuss this separately, if you want. Not under the Yakovlev heading. His letter to the editor is old news, and never made in impact anywhere. It is simply not information which is relevant for an encyclopedia. - Mauco 00:54, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Opinions of Vasily Yakovlev, that is not notable, Vasily Yakovlev does not even have a Wikipedia article, he is not notable, why should his opinions be notable, I agree, this can not be in the Transnistria article Pernambuco 20:56, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

text: He is not notable at all. His status as "founding father" is not mentioned anywhere in Pridnestrovian_Moldavian_Soviet_Socialist_Republic. And the constitution which he supposedly cowrote is the old 1991 version. It was discarded in 1995. The electorate held a referendum and voted for a new one. Yakovlev left politics and left the country. He has been a nobody for more than ten years. There is no good reason why we should give MORE weight to his opinions than to the similar opinions of hundreds of other has-beens, numerous disgruntled expoliticians and assorted nobodies about Transnistria. - Mauco 14:00, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  So, Mauco, according to you, anyone who is (rightfully) disaffected with the situation in Transnistria and leaves (and therefore has an opinion of the situation which is different from yours) is a worthless nobody and a worthless source. You appear to practice the censorship you accuse me of.  —  Pēters J. Vecrumba 14:07, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  That would be a mischaracterization. I thought that his opinion was mildly interesting and maybe marginally relevant during the election campaign, but it has lost its relevance today and is not any more appropriate to the article than the scores of similar people who also hold opinions and write similar letters to the editor to their local newspapers. It has nothing to do with censorship, but is merely an attempt to apply some minimum content relevancy standards to Wikipedia. - Mauco 14:57, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  So, all: is this issue now closed? Or will Yakovlev mysteriously re-appear, in spite of consensus, as soon as page protection is lifted? Whoever has an opinion on the matter ought to let the rest of us know, please. It is unhealthy to start 2007 with a page which is under continuous bouts of lockdown. - Mauco 14:26, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What consensus. Considering Vecrumba intervention, I think the consensus is just as before - to keep Yakovlev.--MariusM 12:19, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  What say you, Vecrumba? - Mauco 17:39, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Opinions of Vasily Yakovlev

message: Here is the paragraph to be added at Human Rights section, as a quotation from US Department of State, immediatelly after "Critics claim ..."
In Transnistria the right of citizens to change their government was severely restricted.[...]Transnistrian authorities harassed independent media and opposition lawmakers, restricted freedom of association and of religion, and discriminated against Romanian-speakers.[...]Transnistrian authorities regularly harassed and often detained persons suspected of being critical of the regime for periods of up to several months.[...]In Transnistria, homosexuality was illegal, and gays and lesbians were subject to governmental and societal discrimination.
:Source:  U.S. Department of State referring to year 2005.--MariusM 22:34, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Funny, there is a gay group of MPs from the European Union parliament which disagrees. Not 2005, but 2006. December 2006, to be exact. - Mauco 23:08, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Source please. TT again?--MariusM 23:33, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  No. It is the official website of these EU MPs. If I want to include it as an edit, I will of course defend the edit and will of course provide the full sourcing which conform to WP:RS. However, I am not proposing any new edits for now. At this point in time, we should all merely try to deal with the existing can of worms, without adding anything new and controversial. - Mauco 23:39, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I understand you are not opposing the inclusion of this paragraph.--MariusM 02:36, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  You have read my general position on this subject, and other controversial subjects: I do not feel that substantial paragraphs of contentious new material should be added before we have cleared our plate of the editing which is required to already-existing content. Deal with the existing issues first, then we handle new suggestions later. For instance, I want to include what the European Union thinks about gay rights. But I am not doing so yet, because it is clear that we have lots of other work to deal with first. You have still not commented on my request for a gentlemen's agreement. But without a modicum of consensus, or at least some ground rules, it will be harder for everyone to collaborate. - Mauco 03:08, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

text: No, actually I think that would be great to comment on the human rights situation for gays in late 2004 and early 2005, from the U.S. report. And then add the latest information, from the European Union, about how the situation has improved as of December 2006. It shows the progress. The world turns, in Transnistria just like everywhere else. I am glad that there is improvement in this field because Transnistria had a lot of human rights problems in the past. We can also add that there is now an independent Human Rights Ombudsman in Transnistria, and that his department has had international training, and collaborates with colleagues from other countries. This is another new development which is not in the 2005 report, since it only happened this year. But right now, let us not bite off more than we can chew. My advice is that we concentrate on the existing work first, and leave all this new stuff for later. - Mauco 03:19, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: For the moment, we should include US Department of State position. When you will come with sources about other positions we can disscussed the inclusion as well. If you come with a position of European Union, well-sourced, I will agree to include it as well (generally speaking, Eu position is relevant, as US position; those are big players in international politics). But we can not refuse to include US position only because you tell us that in an uncertain future you will be able to show us an other position from EU.--MariusM 18:45, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  We already have quite a lot of existing items on the plate. Again, may I request that before we add new items, please deal with the existing topics first. This is not an "uncertain future." Get to work, and it can be dealt with a.s.a.p. However, I note that you have still not commented on the request for some ground rules and a very basic gentlemen's agreement. Why not? - Mauco 00:57, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have a suggestion to both of you, put the new information in the human rights article, it is here, it is Human rights in Transnistria, write about gays and all that, and then when both of you have an agreement, and you like the article, you can make a summary of it, and put the summary into the main page. The reason is: in the main page, the summary is a version of the most important things from the detailed article, the small version is just a section, and there can not be something is the small version that is not in the full article already. Instead of putting it here, put it over there first, and then get an agreement on what the top parts are, the most important parts, and make a quick short summary of them, and put it here Pernambuco 21:00, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: All facts that are showing that is no democracy in Transnistria should be hided from the main article and written in secondary article, this is your position, isn't it? While when we are talking about propaganda of Transnistria's regime, secondary articles are not enough, we should include it also in the main article. You are far from neutral Pernambuco. When are you going to state your position in the open mediation you have with me ? Mediation comitee agreed to hear the case, disscussions started in 13 November 2006 and you still didn't explained your position.--MariusM 21:35, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  put the new information in the human rights article, then make a summary of it, and put the summary into the main page. This is not to hide anything from the main article, it is the same principle that every kind of these pages on wikipedia uses, there is a main article with the overview and then another article with a lot more detail Pernambuco 21:38, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  You are stating the obvious. Not everyone understands this, however. Now you will be told that you are "not neutral" again. But the rest of Wikipedia functions on this principle, too. Don't allow any radical extremists, of either camp, to turn the Transnistria page into an exception from established good practice. I think that we can consider this matter closed, as well. - Mauco 13:36, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Who are you naming "radical extremists"? Asking to include the opinion of US Department of State is extremism? You are not being constructive with this way of labeling your opponents.--MariusM 14:11, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I guess you must have felt alluded to. I agree with including the info. In the right place, of course. Look at how other parts of Wikipedia handle this. I do not agree with inventing special rules and exceptions for Transnistria. THAT, my friend, would be extreme. In fact, it would be radically extreme. Follow well-established Wikipedia rules, guidelines and practices used in other articles, and we can get along just fine. If you can not follow these rules, then expect me to revert you. - Mauco 14:21, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

text: The right place for inclusion is, in my opinion, THIS article. Majority of Wikipedia readers don't follow the 100+ secondary articles about Transnistria, we should give them the information about main facts in this article. US Department of State position is important and it qualify for main article. Position of smaller and less important countries are O.K. to remain only in the secondary article about Human Rights. I don't have the feeling that this article is too long and that is an important task to shorten it, but anyhow, there are a lot of other less important things in the article which can be removed if really is necessarry to remove some parts.--MariusM 17:57, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I am sure that US Department of State position will make it into this (the main) article. But do this the right way, and through consensus. You first develop Human rights in Transnistria. Then, if you are certain that it is an accurate, complete article, and that all content disputes have been solved, you write an accurate summary of that article and bring it here. The summary of the human right article should include the US Department of State position, to the extent that it is a notable part of that article. You should not give it undue weight. Present it fairly and balanced, and put it into the main article. The summary in the main article should be an accurate synthesis of the more detailed human rights article. It should be an overview of the key highlights from there. Not more, not less. If you agree to work like that, please say so. This will help us get this article unprotected. - Mauco 18:54, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I proposed a 3 lines summary of the document. Just read the source - is a long document, my proposal is already a summary. You never explained what is unfair and unbalbanced in my proposal. In fact, we are mentioning that this represent the position of US Department of State, we are not claiming that everything what US says is The Truth, what you want more balanced than that? I am expecting to see your proposal, if this is not O.K.--MariusM 12:26, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: U.S. Department of State position on Human Rights

message: They could get a mention, but I don't think they need bigging up. Jonathanpops 21:48, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We have discussed this endlessly already. Why do we have to rehash the same arguments? If it is not important in places that are far more dangerous, then it shouldn't be important here either. - Mauco 22:52, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I agree. This is how we have them in the article now. They are actually in the right place, too. Right under the explosions and all that, so it has a nice "flow" to it. First all the bad stuff, and then a mention that several countries, including these particular 3, have issued warnings. Followed by the included source references with a link to each warning. Check it out (below Violent Incidents). - Mauco 19:49, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Looks good to me. Jonathanpops 19:57, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree with these two people Pernambuco 14:31, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Then do we have consensus now on this, too? Continued obstructionism will just result in an extended lockdown of the page, and in resumed revert warring when it returns to editable status. That won't help anyone, and least of all Wikipedia. Mauco 15:07, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Travel warnings

message: Maybe "Transnistrian (separatist) Side"? I'm not really sure about this, probably just Transnistrian side is better. Perhaps if there were a Transnistrian Anti Seperatist side as well, just to show it exists. Unfortunately the only site I know for this is Evil Alex's, isn't it? Jonathanpops 21:42, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh Evil Alex is the Alex from that website. Ha, funny I never made the connection. TSO1D 21:49, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  But you were here in the beginning of 2006, when he was pushing like crazy to get it included? Of course, he never admitted that it was his, at the time. But it was fairly obvious to see. I was not an active editor, but I visited the page often and followed his antics from the sidelines. - Mauco 22:40, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Mauco what are you talking about? I never tried to push my site. Site was included by some anonymous editors. I only joined the war that was between you and those editors. And Isn't you the one who brought http://www.icdiss.org/ to wiki? Arent you the one who pushed it like crazy dog into Transnistrian articles?  EvilAlex 23:36, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Crazy dogs don't push things. :-P --Illythr 00:01, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I am not a crazy dog. Maybe an imperialist running dog, however. Oh, and I have also been called a fellow traveller, but no dog involved. - Mauco 00:36, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  PS: And Poleznye idioty, too. But not from anyone that I respect. - Mauco 00:49, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

text:  It's the picture, TSO1D, the picture! ;-) --Illythr 23:15, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes yes picture - me and girls EvilAlex 23:37, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey, Alex, why are you on the western side of the Dniester (somewhere in Gagauzia) on that picture? --Illythr 00:01, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I can stand where i want! My country. EvilAlex 00:26, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

text:  Jonathanpops, it is because Wikipedia's guidelines for external links includes a recommendation that when a link is biased, it ought to be labelled as such. In this context, we are labelling each "side" as someone who more or less espouses the official government position. In the case of Transnistria, that means give prominence to the independence view. In the case of Moldova, when they report on the issue, it means that they give prominence to unification. The homemade hate-site by EvilAlex (transnistria.ru.ru) would go under "Moldovan site" if we could include it (which we can't, for other reasons - see WP:LINKS.) - Mauco 22:38, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I might have to change my handle--it looks too much like Jonathanpops's (we been confused several times at this point)! Regarding the comment, if we continue labeling links, how about "External links" and "Critics of the PMR" (or something like that). It transcends both the argument about whether all Transnistrians/Moldovans are for/against the PMR and the need to include such loaded words as "separatist." jamason 22:54, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Sorry 'bout confusing the two of you. Your suggestion is good, but probably not needed, because the proposal for "separatist" can not pass either. There are basically two approaches: We can have one large link section, with 5 to 10 links or so, and not classify them. Or we can use the current approach. Those are the only two options. If we go to one section, with no classification, then we still have to state the bias in the form of a parenthesis or other notice next to each link. This is required as per WP:LINKS for links which are biased towards one side or the other. It is not required for all links. For instance, the BBC link would not need such a label. - Mauco 23:05, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

text:  I think Jamason's idea is pretty good... --Illythr 23:15, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Which idea? Changing his handle? ;-) The problem with labelling a section "Critics of PMR" is that some of the news sources, like AZI and conflict.md, are not on specific a mission to criticize PMR. They merely report the Moldovan government position favorably and suppress or partially censor the other view (just like the PMR sources do too, in reverse). - Mauco 23:17, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Both. :-) Well, perhaps "Criticism of PMR" or "Official Moldovan position" (not so good, I know)? --Illythr 23:35, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Labeling links: Transnistrian side or Separatist side?

message: *If we are keeping the label "Transnistrian side", we should show also an anti-separatist Transnistrian link. Not all Transnistrians are separatists, we should not create this wrong impresion.--MariusM 22:32, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, official address is transnistria.ru.ru you get redirected if you using Firefox bigger than 1.5 (technical reasons) EvilAlex 23:20, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The main point is that Transnistrians have different opinions. EvilAlex 23:20, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

text:   Speaking of OlviaPress, why is Olvia not included? I REALLY do not want to open up this can of worms, and I think that MariusM is making a huge mistake by forcing us to deal with controversial themes before we even get the easy ones settled. This is why I think that we need to just let the links section stay unchanged, for now. But since he wants to include new links, I have a couple of suggestions of my own: Olvia Press on the Transnistrian side. State owned news agency. Site is http://www.olvia.idknet.com and in addition, one more: Since the presidential site is down, replace it with the parliament. Parliament has a nice, informative, regularly updated ENGLISH LANGUAGE website. It is http://www.vspmr.org/?Lang=Eng and it is official. Something which EvilAlex's homemade hate-site is not. - Mauco 22:44, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I prefer Olvia than Tiraspol Times, as Olvia is honestly telling it's an official agency of Tiraspol regime. Don't label Evil's work as hate-site. He is just a well-informed guy.--MariusM 22:51, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  So should we include his site, transnistria.ru.ru? You have got to be joking. - Mauco 22:58, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: transnistria.ru.ru have an honest Transnistrian opinion on the current situation. There is no pre-formated agenda like in Tiraspol times  EvilAlex 23:25, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  You may have a slight conflict of interest in debating this subject, Evil Al. - Mauco 23:30, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree is a conflict of interest for EvilAlex to debate this subject.--MariusM 23:46, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Yea, I agree Olvia should definitely be included being the main and official press organ of the PMR. I'm not sure how it ever got removed. TSO1D 00:28, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  While I am inclined to agree with you, TSO1D, I also feel that it would be best to "leave good enough alone" (at least for now). As you can see from the lively discussion, we already have a lot of other things on the plate. If we add the links to the mix, I fear that we will be bogged down in talk, talk and then some more talk. Which means that we'll never reach agreement on this or anything else. Could we at least agree to leave the links alone, for a while longer, while we deal with the other issues? This means vetoing transnistria.ru.ru, link headings changes, the introduction of OlviaPress, removal of Tiraspol Times, and any other ideas involving links. Not permanently, but until after we've gotten other work done. - Mauco 00:47, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Link to transnistria.ru.ru

message: It was never agreed (see archived talk). I didn't bother to revert this, in order to achieve a compromise, but I think it was a mistake, as I see that others, after terorism was changed with violent incidents, they want to change now in "isolated violent incidents" and in future probabily only in "incidents". Let's use the correct description for explosions in buses which are killing and wounding people: terrorism. Violent incidents can be beatings, hooliganism.--MariusM 00:04, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you keep adding new objections, there will never be agreement and the page will never be unlocked. Is that smart? You can not use the word "terrorism" and an admin has already explained why. It runs counter to Wikipedia's policies. See the archive. The admin gave us the full explanation and the link to the rules. If you will not abide by Wikipedia norms then perhaps you should find another site to edit. - Mauco 00:24, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Actually, out of the five incidents listed, one is (anti-Semitic) vandalism, two are (anti-Semitic) hooliganism, and only two can be classified as terrorism, with some uncertainty about the first one. --Illythr 12:57, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think is better to have 2 sections: "Antisemitic incidents" and "Terrorism".--MariusM 23:55, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  We might be able to do two sections instead of one. Let us see what other editors say. But why do you persist with wanting the highly biased "terrorism" moniker? It is POV. You know this already, because you have been told so before, on this page. It has already been explained to us in detail, here, by an admin why this word is not acceptable for Wikipedia-use in headers. Even al-Queda is referred to by Wikipedia as merely "a militant Sunni Islamist organization" and not a terrorism group. The T-word is used by others, as citations, and never by Wikipedia. In this context, the only way you can include it is as a header along the lines of "Incidents described as 'terrorism' by some". - Mauco 00:07, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

text: I am amazed with your capacity of telling plain fallacies which anybody can discover through a simple click. In al-Queda article in Wikipedia the word "terrorism" is used. Quote from actual version: "Al-Qaeda has committed multiple acts of terrorism". When you are telling plain fallacies here, at least take care not to use some which are so easy to discover.--MariusM 00:22, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  And this is why you feel that this word should be used to describe the two acts (which you don't think are isolated either) that transpired in Transnistria prior to the their vote in the referendum? You have had an admin tell you already why this is inappropriate, so please give it a rest. It will not happen, because it can not happen. This is Wikipedia and you must learn to follow the rules, please. - Mauco 00:28, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  If it is illegal under the rules of Wikipedia then do not say terrorism Pernambuco 21:27, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is not illegal, I just gave you an example where word "terrorism" is used in a Wikipedia article. Explosions in a troleybus or minbus which killed and wounded many people are terrorism.--MariusM 19:58, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Here is the difference. It is wrong for us to describe an act as terrorism, or a group as terrorist, unless a lot of decent sources back this up. For example, the Omagh bombing or the 9/11 attacks have been described repeatedly by a number of news agencies and governments as 'terrorism'. The attacks in we're discussing on this page have NOT been described as terrorism by a notable amount of people - certainly we have a source for one person and it is reasonable to note this. But with other groups not calling this terrorism ("The threat from terrorism is low.  But you should be aware of the global risk of indiscriminate terrorist attacks, which could be against civilian targets, including places frequented by tourists " - British government on Transnistria), then we cannot unequivacolly label them as such. And to take your exmaple - no an explosion on a minibus is not necessairily terrorism, if we do not know the motive --Robdurbar 20:20, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Can we have an agreement to split the "violent incidents" in "antisemitic incidents" and "Explosions with losses of human lifes"? In the last section we will explain that some are labeling the explosions as "terrorism".--MariusM 20:38, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps we could switch into an "Anti-semitism" and "Explosions" section. Alternatively why not farm all this off into Crime in Transnistria? --Robdurbar 23:27, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well, there are Crime-related articles for other countries. For instance, Crime in the United States and Crime in Japan, and Crime in Australia, to name just a few. I am glad that we have settled that we can NOT use the word "terrorism" in a heading. With regards to making two headers,  "Anti-semitism" and "Explosions" would be OK. I am also fine with keeping the existing "Violent incidents" heading if others prefer that instead. - Mauco 13:33, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Crime_by_country - Mauco 14:18, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Usage of "violent incidents" instead of terrorism

message: I would like to create an article for the PMSSR. Unfortunately, this means deciding how to translate the name. In my own work, I've always used Dniester Moldovan and Dniester Moldovan Soviet Socialist Republic. But, I know we don't do that here. Pridnestrovian Moldovan Soviet Socialist Republic is also an option, but I don't see how we could use anything beginning in "Pridnestrovskaia" of "Trans-Dniester." So that leaves one choice, right? Pridnestrovian Moldovan Soviet Socialist Republic. Let me know if there is disagreement. The article will be up later today. Happy New Year! jamason 16:03, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The official name in English is: "Pridnestrovian Moldavian Soviet Socialist Republic" because Moldavian was the term always used in English, until Moldova declared independence and "ethnified" it to Moldova. That act happened on the Moldovan side of the Dniester, and as we all know, Transnistria did not accompany Moldova in this endeavor. That is why they still use "Moldavian" and not "Moldovan" when they write this word in English. Here is the source: http://www.vspmr.org/?Part=5&Lang=Eng But I think that there is already a stub somewhere. Let me take a look. - Mauco 16:10, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  No, we do not have such a stub or article, so please create it. The closest we get is Chairman of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the Pridnestrovian Moldovan Soviet Socialist Republic which you already know. - Mauco 16:13, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Woah, what a name! Do we have a List of Wikipedia articles with incredibly long names here somewhere? --Illythr 16:40, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think that I recall seeing such a list, once. Not sure where. Maybe in a deletion proposal. At least be glad that we do not need an article for the Assistant to the Chairman of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the Pridnestrovian Moldovan Soviet Socialist Republic. - Mauco 16:44, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  How about articles only reached through link? Pridnestrovian Moldavian Soviet Socialist Republic it is. jamason 17:19, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Feel free to criticize the project in real time as I play in my  sandbox. jamason 18:04, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  It is a good page Pernambuco 21:27, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  PMSSR 

message: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPRyF-rYFQE
The sleepless night for Mauco :))
Happy New Year!
EvilAlex 15:24, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My condolences to MariusM, as well. :-) Wait, did you say Mauco? And what has Romania to do with this page anyway? --Illythr 16:23, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And my condolences to you Illythr to. Now we have an unresolved conflict on the door steps of European Union. EvilAlex 16:39, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Um, Kosovo, anyone? --Illythr 20:49, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Kosovo has been under United Nations administration since 1999. EvilAlex 22:04, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Does this mark conflict as resolved? --Illythr 23:10, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  No need to take this further. Discuss edits to the page, please. - Mauco 00:49, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Romania joins European Union 

message: I found a well documented article on Transnistria. Please include it as external link when the page is unblocked: http://www.countrywatch.com/facts/facts_default.aspx?type=text&topic=SEMOT Dl.goe
: That's a nice article. It's fairly neutral, almost completely factual and covers a lot. I think that it should be included as well. --Illythr 20:49, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  It can go in the general links section (not Moldovan side, not Transnistrian side) instead of the RFE/RL link. But the article is not 100% neutral. For instance, it says that the manufacturing sector "is run by corrupt officials" - but, on balance, it is at least better informed than the BBC overview, which we also link to. - Mauco 00:49, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  no one is perfect, you are not perfect either, I agree with User:D1.goe that the article is well documented, maybe it has flaws, but it is a good resource Pernambuco 21:19, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I am inclined to reject ALL links, good or bad, for now. This is a suggestion for a temporary moratorium on changes to the external links section, while we are working out the controversial parts of the other sections. But if others think that we ought to discuss new links, we can of course do that. I will not impose myself and block a discussion if there is a desire for one. I just think we could handle it better later. - Mauco 18:57, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As a compromise I propose to keep the actual External Links, but to change the headings from "Transnistrian side" to "Separatist side" or "Transnistrian separatist side".--MariusM 19:13, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  This has already been discussed and roundly rejected. See above. - Mauco 19:47, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What rejected? I saw Jonathanpops and Illythr accepting my idea or changing the name of the label of the link and Pernambuco rejecting it. Jamason had the proposal to took out all the labels.. The majority agreed to change the label, it was not done an agreement about the new label.--MariusM 20:49, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Uh, I don't remember agreeing to the "(Anti)-Separatist" labels... Maybe "official Moldovan/Transnistrian" or something like that... :-\ --Illythr 21:27, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Correct. With regards to the links, there are none, so we can keep the existing subheadings. We have had the current classification (3 groups, with the current labelling) for most of 2006. Why the rush now to change it? We have now looked into alternatives. All were worse, for a number of reasons. Now, the only thing we need is for MariusM to assure us that he will not unilaterally keep changing them without prior consensus in Talk first. He kept doing that before    which was part of a pattern of events that led to the current full protection. Will you agree to stop this, MariusM? - Mauco 21:50, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No. A reminder: The pattern of events that lead to the current protection started when you and your friend Pernambuco decided to remove generally agreed paragraphs like Yakovlev's comments and border issues, without any prior disscussion in Talk. Regarding the changing of links label, I did discuss it in talk starting with 19 December , and many others, including Illythr, agreed that a label change is necessary (see archive 11). I would accept current label if we add an anti-separatist Transnistrian site like transnistria.ru.ru. Else, a label change is necessary, in order not to confuse readers. We should not create the impression for Wikipedia readers that all transnistrians are separatists. "Separatist side" and "Antiseparatist side" looks the more accurate descriptions for me, but I am open to other suggestions which avoid the impression that "transnistrian" and "separatist" are the same.--MariusM 13:40, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Right, that was all I needed to know. Thank you. I asked if you would agree to stop edit warring / revert warring, and you gave us your view on who's to blame, and why you feel justified in unilaterally "restoring" your version when the page gets unlocked again. I was rather hoping for a simple yes or no as to whether you will attempt to work out the differences here, in Talk, through consensus. Or if they will again be dealt with through the resumption of editwarring and continuous reverts. Mauco 14:26, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another link 

message: For now, I'd prefer to not touch the external links section since we have a lot more on our plate to deal with first. But once we do decide to change the links, I propose the following site for inclusion as well: http://www.transdniester.com/
I just found it, and it gives a nice overview for an outsider. It also links back to Wikipedia. :-) - Mauco 14:52, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I like the site a lot. It is very informative and I think it's pretty objective. However, my only worry is that it's unclear who's behind the site. But although that might disqualify it for in-line citations, it's still better than some of the other external links we have now, so I would support its inclusion. TSO1D 16:32, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I am neutral, if you want to add it, it is fine with me, if not, that is also fine. It is not a site that is made in Tiraspol because would they put the big hammer and sickle on the first page, I dont think so. Pernambuco 20:31, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A new site which has links to Tiraspol Times at each page. Please spare us.--MariusM 21:04, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  what do you mean, we are talking about www.transdniester.com, it was the link that Mauco suggested and TSO1D liked it, and I am neutral on it, but it does not have a link to Tiraspol Times at each page, I think that you are confusing this with another site. Please look at it again and tell us what you think, if we should include it or not Pernambuco 21:25, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly. We are talking about www.transdniester.com. At the left-bottom part of each page of www.transdniester.com is a link to Tiraspol Times. Is dificult for me to assume good faith for you if you are deniyng the obvious, which anybody can check with a mouse click. My opinion about this link is NO.--MariusM 21:39, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  are you sure about this, does anybody else see this in their computer? I do not have it. In my browser, when I look at www.transdniester.com there is a box on the right hand side in the lower right hand side, it is a graphical advertisement, but it has various messages depending on each page, and never Tiraspol Times (not right and not left), can someone else confirm this ? Pernambuco 21:47, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Weird, maybe your computer has a virus. You should take it to service, probabily it need repairs. When you open http://www.transdniester.com/ in the main box, at bottom and left, is always a link to Tiraspol Times.--MariusM 21:58, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Pernambuco, MariusM is right. The links are there. If you check the source code of the page, it was a Google Ads javascript. Possibly you can't see them because you have javascript turned off in your browser. Turn it on, and most likely they will appear. At the same time, there is no indication that the site (Transdniester.com) consciously has put a link to Tiraspol Times on every page. Simply put, Tiraspol Times is a Google Ads client. Transdniester.com displays Google Ads. They are keywords-based. So it is logical that the TT ad will appear on every Transdniester.com, even without Transdniester.com specifically wanting it. - Mauco 15:22, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

text: We already discused this link - see archive 6 . It was voted for deletion, but the "neutral" Pernambuco defend voting when the result is to keep a pro-transnistrian site and consider "voting is evil" when the result is against such a site.--MariusM 21:09, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I am neutral, I just don't remember this link, maybe it is because it was never included, and they had a lot of links that we voted on, I dont think that I ever said that voting was evil, or anything else was evil. This sort of wording is not in my vocabulary, maybe you confuse me with someone else, but I apologise if I submitted a link that is not relevant Pernambuco 21:17, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

text: You are reading WAY too much into it. There is no conspiracy theory to uncover and no "far more serious threat" as you want us to believe. Facts are simply: It is a brand new business. They started it in mid-2006. It is not even a year old. That Tiraspol Times is placing google ads is an indication that they are trying to make themselves known. That is normal. Most new companies have to do that within the first year of their business, in order to bring in customers and revenue. It is Business 101. Anyone in Moldova can do the same, if they want to. That is the beauty of a free press and of capitalism. - Mauco 13:25, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New links 

message: http://pridnestrovie.net/statesymbols.html --Der Eberswalder 08:05, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is right and it is wrong. There are two flags in use. See Flag of Transnistria. We have chosen to use the state flag in this article, rather than the flag which is more commonly in use in Transnistria. - Mauco 13:22, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The flag is wrong

message: There's been a lot of discussion - much of which seems very productive - and the article has been protected for a week? I can unprotect if you think its ready for it? --Robdurbar 13:41, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We're almost there. We just need one or two of the folks who caused the editwarring in the first place to come to this page and tell us that they understand what we have done here.  In other words, agreement to the general consensus reached on intro, geography, political status, economy, Yakovlev comments, links, human rights, referendum summary, terrorism/violent incidents, and so on. Give it a day or two. If there is still obstruction, then it is too early to make your move. - Mauco 14:15, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Apparently we still have issues to deal with. See the history of the latest day of day. Best to wait a bit more, until we at least have a firm pledge that these issues will be worked out here - in talk - rather than through edit warring and continuous reverts, as happened before. - Mauco 14:26, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Protection

message: There is an opinion (not mine) that we need to make shorter this article, this was the explanation for removing some paragraphs. I've looked at the article, I think there are indeed some paragraphs which can be removed if shortening the article is really a priority:
*Names of Transnistria. I know that Mauco and TSO1D worked hard for this paragraph, but we really don't need it, as we have a separate article on this subject. A link imediately after the introduction to the secondary article will be enough.
**The name section has to stay. Most other similar articles have an etymology section, and considering the vast range of terminology used to refer to Transnistria, there can only be few places where one is more needed. TSO1D 12:46, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Good, but: Please confirm that we have solved the other pending/open issues before you add new items to the mix. Let us do this step by step, please. We can discuss your suggestions, and I am sure that we can reach agreement on your new ideas. But we FIRST need to deal with what is already on the plate. Otherwise we will never finish. - Mauco 01:42, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Shortening the article

message: This is very confusing, I do not understand a thing, please keep the normal style of the talkig page
I moved content of chapter named Protest towards Mauco's conduct to Mauco talk page.Dl.goe 10:37, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My suggestion is that we have separate pages for discussions about each chapter of the article. Currently, all discussions regarding Transnistria article are on the same page. This has led to many archives, and even some discussions about current issues are archived. I think one should not post his opinion ∞ times, at ∞ chapters on the same subject. This initiative is also meant to prevent users from restarting discussions that already received solutions.Dl.goe 10:37, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussion about this discussion 

message: We don't get further into discussions to find the solution, rather we start and restart discussions. For exemple, we have more than one discussion about (isolated) violent incidents or  border issues; editors are stating their oppinion about same subject at different chapters.
I propose we make sepparate pages for all topics. In this way, all oppinions will be taken into consideration(not only the ones stated at the latest discussion).
I've added some of the discussions form talk page; some even from archives.Dl.goe
(proposal)Please discuss changes to the article at the appropriate page.	(proposal)Please discuss changes to the article at the appropriate page.	(proposal)Please discuss changes to the article at the appropriate page.	(proposal)Please discuss changes to the article at the appropriate page.	(proposal)Please discuss changes to the article at the appropriate page.	(proposal)Please discuss changes to the article at the appropriate page.	(proposal)Please discuss changes to the article at the appropriate page.	(proposal)Please discuss changes to the article at the appropriate page.	(proposal)Please discuss changes to the article at the appropriate page.	(proposal)Please discuss changes to the article at the appropriate page.
Introduction [ post] | [ watch]                                         	Political status [ post] | [ watch]                                     	Geography [ post] | [ watch]
Including Border issues.                   	Politics [ post] | [ watch]
Including Internal politics and International relations.	History [ post] | [ watch]                                              	Human rights  [ post] | [ watch]                                        	Population  [ post] | [ watch]                                          	Economy  [ post] | [ watch]                                             	Crime  [ post] | [ watch]
Including travel warnings and violent incidents	External links  [ post] | [ watch]
This is very confusing, I do not understand a single thing, please keep the normal style of the talking page Pernambuco 01:03, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My suggestion is that we have separate pages for discussions about each chapter of the article. Currently, all discussions regarding Transnistria article are on the same page. This has led to many archives, and even some discussions about current issues are archived. I think one should not post his opinion ∞ times, at ∞ chapters on the same subject. This initiative is also meant to prevent users from restarting discussions that already received solutions.Dl.goe 10:37, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: We should continue, not restart discussions

message: I have to congratulate again Mauco, as his work at Wikipedia is highly apreciated in Tiraspol Times and again reproduced word-by-word. Wikipedia article Media in Transnistria is saying: Several opposition newspapers exist in Transnistria. They include “Novoe Vremya” (The New Time), Rybnitsa-based “Dobryi Deni”, “Celovek i ego prava” (Man and His Rights), “Novaya Gazeta” from Bender, “Profsoiuznyie Vesti” and “Glas Naroda.” The newspaper “Dnestrovskaya Pravda”, while not an opposition newspaper, also publishes editorials highly critical of the government. Its editor, Nadesha Bondarenko, is an opposition candidate in Transnistria's December 10, 2006, presidential election.
Tiraspol Times, in an article signed Jason Cooper  is telling: Several opposition newspapers exist in Pridnestrovie. They include “Novoe Vremya” (The New Time), Rybnitsa-based “Dobryi Deni”, “Celovek i ego prava” (Man and His Rights), “Novaya Gazeta” from Bender, “Profsoiuznyie Vesti” and “Glas Naroda.” Moreover, the newspaper “Dnestrovskaya Pravda”, while not an opposition newspaper, also publishes editorials highly critical of the government. Its editor, Nadesha Bondarenko, stood as an opposition candidate in the country's 10 December 2006, presidential election and finished second in a field of four candidates.
The only difference is that TT put at past tense the candidature of Bondarenko. Mauco, I envy you. In the same Wikipedia article Media in Transnistria I've added a paragraph: According U.S. Department of State, separatist authorities harassed the independent newspapers when they criticized the Transnistrian regime. Most Moldovan newspapers did not circulate widely in Transnistria, although they were available in Tiraspol[2]. My paragraph didn't meet TT standards for inclusion. On contrary, TT claim: "Pridnestrovie has a fairly free media climate. No newspapers are currently banned or closed, and there is no government censorship". I know you are flatered.--MariusM 13:16, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Mauco must be happy: The Tiraspol Times has at last one reader. :) Dpotop 14:14, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Heh. Still, I suggest to move this either to Media in Transnistria, Tiraspol Times or to Mauco's talkpage, if y'all wanna cogratulate him personally. --Illythr 14:45, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  That's OK. The implication is that I am either a KGB agent (the old hat) or Karen Ryan / Jason Cooper (whatever). But the datelines gives it away. The paragraph cited above was written here in Wikipedia by me last year.  Anyone is free to copy from Wikipedia. It is not the first time this happened, and probably won't be the last. I am not the only one that this has happened to. In the case of http://www.tiraspoltimes.com it has happened to work done here by me and by Mikkalai, that I know of. Nor is TIRASPOL TIMES alone in doing this. Wikipedia material is used (often cut-and-paste) in media worldwide on a daily basis. It would be nice if they would acknowledge Wikipedia. Since we know that the editors of Tiraspol Times follow these pages, maybe they will read this request. The next time, please add a byline stating that some of the material was used courtesy of Wikipedia. - Mauco 03:41, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe they should reffer directly at you, as only your work is copied in Tiraspol Times. I did also a lot of work here in Transnistria-related topics, but my work is not noticed :-(. Probabily, because of lower quality. As I told, I envy you. Regarding Mikkalai, his work was not copied. He made some comments on talk page, and afterwards an article from Tiraspol Times was quoting his words in Wikipedia's discussions telling "as a political analyst is saying...". Mikka was very proud for being named "political analyst".--MariusM 21:37, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

text: If you knew Russian people, you wouldn’t blame Mauco. The basic feature of Russian character is laziness and journalists are not exception. It is easier for them to copy somebody’s article, than to write their own one. Plagiarism in many mass-media is norm.Helen28 10:13, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'm sorry, but doesn't the previous text qualify as racist speech? I mean, I've had my problems with Russian editors on wikipedia, and I think Russia and the Soviets did a lot of bad to my country, but I wouldn't say they are lazy as a people. Qualifying an entire ethnos as lazy is racist. If you want, talk about bad things the Russians and Russian/Soviet governments actually did. This is factual. BTW: I have met more hard-working Russians than lazy ones. :) Dpotop 09:47, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

text:  They all are claimed to be non-Slav Westerners. Well, at least we can now be sure that you are not one of them. ;-) --Illythr 10:32, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Mauco's work at Wikipedia, copied again in Tiraspol Times

message: As Dl.goe told, "The article can't do without Border issues". A confirmation of the importance of border issues are the recent clashes between Moldovan and Transnistrian forces near Dubasari. Here is the BBC report (in Romanian) and here Russian press agency Novosti report. As BBC corectly observed, Dubasari is the hotest point in the region, as near this city there are main border issues. My opinion is that from those border issues a new war can start and is important to explain to our readers about them. I want to add back the border issues section and include in it the breaking news regarding last conflict at Dubasari.--MariusM 21:37, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Huh? Damn, just read this. Any casualties? Gotta make a call in the morning... --Illythr 01:02, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  No fatalities. Except truth and ethics in Romanian journalism. The real "story behind the story" reveals a case of neo-Stalinism (removal of webpages and articles from the press) which happened just two hours ago. Romania’s largest news agency initially reported accurately on the incident. This was before Vasile Sova got a chance to kick into gear and mobilize Moldovan NGOs (or quasi-"NGOs", depending on your point on view) to put a politically correct spin on the event. When he did, the Romanians simply removed all the previous reporting. However, by then it was already too late and the original story had been distributed by Google News and sent to approximately 90% of Romania’s mainstream media earlier in the day (today). I won't go into detail because it is clearly off-topic, and not appropriate for this talk page. See talk page guidelines: This talk should deal with edits to the article, and this page is not a social discussion forum. But if anyone wants to know the full details, just either send me email or ask me on my userpage's Talk. - Mauco 17:21, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nobody told about fatalities and I don't know what kind of neo-Stalinist Romanian journalism Mauco was talking. I was reffering at a BBC report (in Romanian, indeed, but is still a BBC report, is British journalism not Romanian journalism) and a Russian agency report. We have also an other source conflict.md, which, despite being labeled in Wikipedia as "Moldovan side" is reporting also the position of Transnistrian ministry of foreign affairs. We are disscussing edits in the article here as the incident show how important border issues are and I made a proposal to include this incident in the article.--MariusM 21:11, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Like I said, send me email or go to my talk page if you want to know about the neo-Stalinist removal of webpages which happened Monday and involved the largest news agency in Romania. I saved the screenshots, just in case. But this is not the place, due to talk page guidelines. Stick to topic. - Mauco 23:21, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

text:  Sorry, Dl.Goe, but this text qualifies at best as Dada prose. I understood nothing. Dpotop 09:51, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The correct way to put a link to the main article is . Links like There are unsettled border issues with conflicting claims on both sides. are used to link to border article.Dl.goe 13:47, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks. :) Dpotop 15:01, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Breaking news: clashes between Moldovan and Transnistria forces near Dubasari