Template talk:Romeo and Juliet

message: I went ahead and started putting this on mainspace. It's not perfect, but it's still an excellent addition to wikipedia. Wrad 21:37, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Putting it on mainspace 

message: Wow, this is a great collection of links, but quite massive for a navigation box. Is it possible to break this one up into several, or have collapsed subsections? --Another Believer (Talk) 16:34, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Make your suggestions at WP:BARD.  However, keep in mind that all of a sudden we have a complete set of templates for all the plays and they are in use all over the project in various ways. If you want to break one up, you should break up several of the large ones for consistency. However, I doubt consensus will be to split them. You might be able to get some consensus to collapse subsections. Look at all the templates in their uses within Template:Shakespeare's plays, at BBC Television Shakespeare, at Shakespeare: The Animated Tales. Basically, think about your suggestion in the context of its broad uses.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:39, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, keep in mind that  and I have created most of these since September 2012. Prior to that we only had templates for 9 plays. We have attempted to build out a complete set for obvious reasons.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:52, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: P.S. You might want to take a look at the the recent additions to the template. I added most of them aggressively thinking that when someone took a closer look 10 or 20% of them might be removed.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 00:21, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

text: I didn't have any involvement with this template. I worked on a lot of the smaller ones (there's a full list of which ones I worked on my on user page). For what it's worth, I agree with you that this template is far too large. So is . I do remember  saying something at some point along the lines that these two templates were "unusable" because they had grown so exponentially. I think I remember agreeing with him, but that was petty much the end of the discussion. Bertaut (talk) 01:22, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: A few years back I spent a lot of time creating a lot of templates like these and later spent time expanding others. I think this was toward the tail end of my efforts. This is a large template. It might be improved with some content reduction. The simplest solution would be to collapse it in sections. I have seen some of my other works treated this way, such as . In terms of reducing content, I think everything down to Plays should stay no matter what, which means the final form will still be rather large. In truth, I don't think much should be considered for removal apart from possibly the last 2 or 3 sections. The "Foreign stories" is the least connected to the other elements of the template because they are not adaptations of the work and are not necessarily inspired by it in any way. These are stories that are known as the Fooish Romeo and Juliet from each country Foo. However, they are the R&J of that country for being the single most storied romantic tragedy of that culture rather than resembling the source here. IIRC, each of them has content in the article claiming that it is the R&J of some other culture. Other than that section and some content in the "Other" section, I would pretty much oppose any other content removal due to its value to those using the source as a navbox to related content.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 02:41, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, but what is your reasoning that leads to that conclusion? What are the criteria you use for inclusion (e.g. what would you not include)? And concomitant with that, what is your idea of what this template is for, usage-wise (e.g. which groups of articles should it be used on)?Discussing the pruning of individual links is pointless unless we have some kind of consensus understanding of those larger questions. --Xover (talk) 04:53, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:NAVBOX and WP:NAV both mention "grouping of links used in multiple related articles to facilitate navigation between those articles". I believe that this is a navbox that should contain links to subjects of interest to readers seeking content on the titular subject. This includes any related work, including all adaptations, sources of inspirations, derivations, reproductions, inspired works. I am not sure how closely related things should be, but I have even included story within a story content as related. I don't know definitively what "related" means.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 01:57, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm. My initial impression is that you would have to read WP:NAVBOX (and to a degree also WP:NAV) with fairly selective glasses on to arrive at the conclusion that something like Atomy (or (Don't Fear) The Reaper, to pick another random example) should be included. But in any case, I'm still hoping for an explication of your inclusion criteria (surely it isn't "everything", which really would count as "uncritical") and similarly on intended use of the template. For both aspects there must be some limit, some threshold, where an article link can fall either above or below. We need to establish what this is, what those criteria are, to be able to reason sensibly about what should be in the template. And specifically, if we start discussing individual links without establishing what those principles are we'll just end up in endless circles (we won't have the same frame of reference). To get anywhere we need to have a common understanding of what the principles for inclusion and use are, and to arrive there we need to start with an understanding of the principles you used when you (re)made the template(s). --Xover (talk) 09:40, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I feel like I am suddenly being invited to play word games and to redefine the meaning of a Navbox. Atomy reminds me of half of the characters atop Template:Cinderella. Although Atomy is a minor character it is related to the topic in the same way.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:17, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Size 

message: In regards to the undone revision 883131749 by TonyTheTiger, I argue the addition was not redundant, as the movie referenced (Romeo + Juliet) was a major motion picture adaptation of the play, and is already listed in the soundtrack section as a totally separate article, but is missing from the film section. I had to do a bit of additional searching to find it and add it in, and I suspect many others might never find the association if it's not listed in the box. -- Lefte (talk) 17:10, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revisions 

message: I come with this proposal to split the Films section into a new navbox, due to size. The size issue seems to have raised concerns since 2014 and has not been addressed yet. Given that Romeo and Juliet is a very notable and popular play, it will most likely keep getting more adaptations. Thoughts?--LoЯd ۞pεth 16:15, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Split proposal