Talk:Aggie Bonfire

message: I've seen a few people change the references to "t.u." to "U.T.", but that is not correct in this context.  Yes, the official abbreviation for the University of Texas at Austin is U.T.  At Texas A&M, however, the rival school is referred to in a derogatory manner as "t.u.", because Aggies think UT is "just another texas university" and not "THE university of texas".  The choice was made to include the derogatory term in this article because a) it is used in the motto for Bonfire, and b) the University of Texas newspaper has even made note of the term without appearing offended.  The choice of when to use t.u. and when to use UT or spell out the name was made very carefully based on the context of the paragraphs and is the result of a consenus of page editors and WP:FA reviewers.  If you disagree with the usage, please discuss here before changing the article.  Karanacs (talk) 03:25, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: * Congratulations to everyone ! Now it's a featured article.--NAHID 06:19, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

text: *: Actually it's been featured for almost four months. But you're right, it's featured on the Main Page today only! BigBlueFish (talk) 15:53, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: t.u.

message: congrats to the editors. 207.241.238.233 (talk) 07:29, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Featured article for good reason... Great! Qevlarr (talk) 09:51, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Very thorough and well designed article, even if the event it reports barely counts as encyclopedic material. A fire to highlight rivalry, how childish. --rubenerd (talk) 12:28, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Some people think wars are childish. Some people think others are childish. However these things happen and WP tries to ensure every notable person, event, and thing we can verify using reliable sources is covered. While somethings are more notable than others, the others sometimes are well documented. And congrats to the FA writers here. At least this one did not generate as much "interest" as FTAB. spryde | talk 12:31, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: one of the best articles I've seen in ages

message: Should we include this information in the article, in the related paragraph in the controversy section? Is it relevant? BlueAg09 (Talk) 00:06, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Here is another source. BlueAg09 (Talk) 00:10, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that definitely deserves at least a sentence in the article.  It likely means more lawsuits will be coming. Karanacs (talk) 13:12, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: 10th Texas Court of Appeals ruling

message: The article does a great job of discussing Bonfire.
One item of interest concerning the eventual litigation is that the families originally made no effort to seek damages or initiate litigation.  The settlement is mentioned but not the fact that the families tried hard to avoid litigation.  They were seeking to have the university release the information on what happened so that the tragedy could be avoided in the future.
After trying to get the university administrators to talk with them for a good while and getting no where, the families initiated litigation.  The families felt they had no choice.  They believed the university administrators were attempting to delay information being made public about the tragedy.  Meetings scheduled with the university were repeatedly cancelled.  The families were faced with the statute of limitations deadline on filing litigation.  Once it had passed, they would have no way of forcing the university administrators to provide the information.  They did not want money.  They wanted disclosure of the information on what happened in hopes that it would never happen again.  Facing the expiration of the statute of limitation, they filed a last minute suit to force the university to deal with them.
The above is based on both public statements and private statements made by the families of those killed.
Prcox1963 (talk) 01:56, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: If you can find a reliable source to back up some of this (preferably a newspaper article, most preferably not The Battalion), then we can include some of that in the article.  Right now, the article reflects what we found in the sources. Karanacs (talk) 15:04, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Litigation by the Families

message: So, I see the discussion two headers above from about 5 months ago. Now, I see that dates have been relinked. I must ask, what is the purpose of linking November 18 and 1999? What in those articles aid readers' understanding? Dabomb87 (talk) 21:54, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: All, the date and year have been independently wikilinked to provide context with other newsmaking events that occurred that year and on that date in history. There has been a recent ArbCom decision regarding dates such as this and no dates should be either additionally linked or delinked until a workable, agreed-upon guideline/policy can be implemented. I strongly caution everyone to review the case and its outcome before making any date link-related changes as a block is likely to follow shortly thereafter. — BQZip01 — talk 17:01, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Mass date delinking is banned for 6 months, but not individual date delinking.  Per the last RfC on the matter, the following text was added to MOSNUM: Such links should share an important connection with that subject other than that the events occurred on the same date.  It's pretty clear that consensus is against linking dates in articles just because the event is listed on the date page. I think that the date links ought to be removed. Karanacs (talk) 20:42, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Concur, unless it can be shown that the link clearly aids readers' understanding. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:45, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

text: Unless somebody comes up with a reason for the linked dates, I will remove the links in a couple of days. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:43, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: No reason was provided, so I removed the links. Please discuss here first before reinstating them. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:39, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Why the linked dates?

message: http://www.texasmonthly.com/2009-11-01/feature.php
It covers a lot of the organizational components of Bonfire. Also a good read. — BQZip01 — talk 21:43, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: New Source for info

message: Since this article is about an American university, it makes sense to me that punctuation would follow American standards. Therefore, I took the liberty to change instances of periods and commas that were outside closing quotation marks and put them inside according to standards for American written English. OK? Ed8r (talk) 17:08, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: MOS:LQ advocates against that, so I'm going to revert the change. Karanacs (talk) 21:06, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: punct with closing quotes

message: The picture showing daylight recovery operations has a dead link.  It is now on a different site, at     www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/publications/tr-133.pdf   , on p. 38.  This needs to be changed when the url can be replaced. Fconaway (talk) 03:29, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: 1999 collapse

message: While the section under "1999 Collapse" currently indicates that the ultimate height of the Bonfire stack was 40 feet, in reality the stack at the 4th tier had reached 59 feet with the 5th and 6th stacks yet to be constructed (a task reserved for the Redpots and Brownpots). 
The source currently cited for the incorrect height of 40 feet is "Cook, John Lee, Jr.. "Bonfire Collapse" (PDF). U.S. Department of Homeland Security. Retrieved 2009-09-29." This is a result of early reports in which the height was erroneously set at 40 feet. However, on page 20 of "Bonfire Collapse" documentation of the actual height can be found. It refers to the findings of an unnamed professor "of mechanical engineering appointed as the head of the A&M staff team to assist the commission in their inquiry". 
The name of that investigator is Dr. John A. Weese. "His memo to the Commission reported the height, which does not include the seven-foot outhouse on top, as being eighteen feet on the first tier, sixteen feet on the second, fourteen feet on the third, 
and eleven feet on the fourth."(page 20). Even studying photos of the '99 Bonfire is enough to determine that the stated height of 40 feet is incorrect. 
Also, I was working atop the second tier the night Bonfire collapsed and was injured. I have firsthand knowledge that at that level the stack was already nearing a height of 40 feet with 2 tiers still above it. While I wish to maintain neutrality, I am personally invested in seeing the facts surrounding the 1999 Bonfire and its collapse strictly maintained and although I have previously edited details of its final height those changes have since been incorrectly reverted. --Brewchief (talk) 03:20, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Is there a weblink to that source so I can format it properly?  If so I'll make the change. Karanacs (talk) 19:38, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  1999 Bonfire Stack Height 

message: In the "stages of construction" chart, it says they douse the stack with jet fuel before igniting it. Why would they use jet fuel when it's just really expensive kerosene? That's like using 110 octane avgas to start a fire when pump gas would work just fine. You sure this isn't a joke that someone took literally? Like they really use kerosene, like sensible people would, and jokingly tell people it's "jet fuel", because it sounds a lot cooler to call it "jet fuel", since most people don't realize that just means "kerosene" (like people who think that putting jet fuel in their car will make it "go rully fast!", when in reality it'll just run like shit). I suppose it's possible that A&M is willing to pay extra to buy real just fuel just so they can tell people that "we doused the stack with jet fuel this year! Yeah baby!" It would be foolish, but many people are.70.20.40.28 (talk) 06:00, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: The fuel (contaminated JET-A) was typically donated by the airport (CLL).205.142.232.18 (talk) 21:52, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jet fuel? 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Aggie Bonfire. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070211063748/http://www.salon.com:80/books/it/1999/12/08/bonfire/index.html to http://www.salon.com/books/it/1999/12/08/bonfire/index.html
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20070809122056/http://lhb.music.utexas.edu:80/shows_1999/ to http://lhb.music.utexas.edu/shows_1999/
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 11:28, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Aggie Bonfire. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120616165213/http://www.thebatt.com/news/aggie-medics-recount-stories-of-sorrowful-day-1.1180232 to http://www.thebatt.com/news/aggie-medics-recount-stories-of-sorrowful-day-1.1180232
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 11:44, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The content concerning the lethal collapse during construction of the Bonfire is awful. We learn, for instance, that 12 died - but not where they were on or around the structure. We learn that 27 others were injured, but not how many injuries were minor and major, nor how many had recovered a month, 6 months, a year later nor how many have been permanently maimed. The stated causes are risible. stresses and insufficient strength? It's like saying the causes of the Kennedy assassination was a bullet. Risible.  Who designed it? Who coordinated its construction? Who in any type of authority was on site at 2:30 am? Did anyone involved have the engineering background to assemble a 60ft tall multi-ton edifice - which they knew would collapse during its burn?? How much did it weigh? When were each of the 27 people rescued? The lack of information (obvious stonewalling), especially from a public institution, is noteworthy in itself. Has A&M EVER admitted responsibility? Why have they been able to avoid full disclosure? Corruption? What? Really shoddy article.174.130.19.69 (talk) 05:11, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: The entire article is bad. Its one of those "Universities of the South" things where they like to mythologize themselves so they only tend to include the hard facts when its something they can look at romantically. Other than that its a quick brush over until we get to our next big football game which you will get a paragraph describing every 10 second span...from each of the 100,000 attendees. 2601:154:C000:4CF0:7474:3076:A42:19C8 (talk) 08:00, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Causes of 1999 collapse 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Aggie Bonfire. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071112003839/http://media.www.thebatt.com:80/media/storage/paper657/news/2003/02/27/FrontPage/Gates.Bonfire.Will.Not.Burn.In.Fall.2003-514883.shtml to http://media.www.thebatt.com/media/storage/paper657/news/2003/02/27/FrontPage/Gates.Bonfire.Will.Not.Burn.In.Fall.2003-514883.shtml
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070902220236/http://media.www.dailytexanonline.com:80/media/storage/paper410/news/2004/11/19/TopStories/Am.Remembers.Bonfire.Tragedy-811494.shtml to http://media.www.dailytexanonline.com/media/storage/paper410/news/2004/11/19/TopStories/Am.Remembers.Bonfire.Tragedy-811494.shtml
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070929095658/http://media.www.thebatt.com/media/storage/paper657/news/2003/10/28/News/Bonfire.Memorial.Construction.Begins-540815.shtml to http://media.www.thebatt.com/media/storage/paper657/news/2003/10/28/News/Bonfire.Memorial.Construction.Begins-540815.shtml
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080810221752/http://media.www.thebatt.com:80/media/storage/paper657/news/2003/10/20/News/Student.Dies.After.Accidental.Fall-533040.shtml to http://media.www.thebatt.com/media/storage/paper657/news/2003/10/20/News/Student.Dies.After.Accidental.Fall-533040.shtml
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070926225829/http://media.www.thebatt.com/media/storage/paper657/news/2005/11/17/News/OffCampus.Bonfire-1108094.shtml to http://media.www.thebatt.com/media/storage/paper657/news/2005/11/17/News/OffCampus.Bonfire-1108094.shtml
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 13:53, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Aggie Bonfire. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071110225606/http://badgerherald.com/news/2002/11/26/offcampus_texas_a_m_.php to http://badgerherald.com/news/2002/11/26/offcampus_texas_a_m_.php
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 05:52, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 7 external links on Aggie Bonfire. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070207065308/http://www.msc.tamu.edu/traditions/bonfire/1999/programs/ to http://www.msc.tamu.edu/traditions/bonfire/1999/programs/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071113091623/http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2005_Nov_21/ai_n15863203 to http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2005_Nov_21/ai_n15863203
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071225193153/http://209.189.226.235/stories/110106/am_20061101007.php to http://209.189.226.235/stories/110106/am_20061101007.php
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://media.www.thebatt.com/media/storage/paper657/news/2003/02/27/FrontPage/Gates.Bonfire.Will.Not.Burn.In.Fall.2003-514883.shtml
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://media.www.dailytexanonline.com/media/storage/paper410/news/2004/11/19/TopStories/Am.Remembers.Bonfire.Tragedy-811494.shtml
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070929111255/http://media.www.thebatt.com/media/storage/paper657/news/2004/06/02/News/Court.Says.Am.Is.Not.Liable.In.Bonfire.Lawsuit-683943.shtml to http://media.www.thebatt.com/media/storage/paper657/news/2004/06/02/News/Court.Says.Am.Is.Not.Liable.In.Bonfire.Lawsuit-683943.shtml
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://media.www.thebatt.com/media/storage/paper657/news/2003/10/20/News/Student.Dies.After.Accidental.Fall-533040.shtml
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 20:14, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Aggie Bonfire. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071225193139/http://209.189.226.235/aandmnews/111804survivor.php to http://209.189.226.235/aandmnews/111804survivor.php
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071001030233/http://www.utexas.edu/features/archive/2004/football.html to http://www.utexas.edu/features/archive/2004/football.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 02:03, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Aggie Bonfire. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061014185110/http://www.masonrymagazine.com/5-05/excellence2.html to http://www.masonrymagazine.com/5-05/excellence2.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 21:59, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Aggie Bonfire. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070826164127/http://traditions.tamu.edu/new/index.php?q=traditions to http://traditions.tamu.edu/new/index.php?q=traditions
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 16:07, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I just went ahead and split 1999 Aggie Bonfire collapse into its own article. The sheer amount of coverage in Texas newspapers alone should justify this. I'm sure now there are also many journal and academic articles in disaster management about the collapse itself.
WhisperToMe (talk) 21:13, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Split [[1999 Aggie Bonfire collapse]]