Talk:Cute (Japanese group)

message: My request to rename the French Wikipedia article to "Cute" has been accepted per :fr:Wikipédia:Conventions typographiques. This is for future reference. Moscowconnection (talk) 12:49, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: What happens on French wikipedia, and English wikipedia, are separate matters.  The renaming approval at French-Wiki won't be accepted as a "future reference" reason for trying to approve a renaming request on English-Wikipedia.  Wesley☀Mouse 12:52, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article title 

message: They are assigned members colours, so that fans could support their favourite member by wearing coloured T-shirts and waving light sticks of the same colour. Maybe it also helps a new fan to learn all the members. Cute doesn't always wear their colours, they do it for some songs.
A concert looks like this:
*Cutie Circuit 2011 (9gatsu 10ka wa Cute no Hi) (official bootleg)
I haven't been able to to find an official video where you can see the fans, but they they all wear coloured T-shirts.
They are shouting cause they learn what to shout (and how to dance and wave). Like, someone invents the cheers, and everyone learns them. When Airi Suzuki sings her solo line, you can hear them shouting "Airi!"; and it's like that for every member. It's all learned. It's called wotagei, literally meaning "wota art".
Examples of Cute members wearing their colours:
* Cute - Seishun Song (Live)
* Cute - Happy na Onna no Ko Moscowconnection (talk) 00:50, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Member colours 

message: D'ya like my Shakespeare pun there?  Anyhow, to the point I shall get.  According to WP:TALKCOND, when large talk pages become difficult to read and strain the limits of older browsers. Also loading time becomes an issue for slow internet connections. It is helpful to archive or refactor a page either when it exceeds 50 KB, or has more than 10 main sections.  As the size is a little lengthy, then an archive would be reasonable.  Although, keeping it to manual archiving might be better than allowing a MizsaBot start storing threads that may be needed to reference.  The first 5 posts in here are well over 12 months old, and could do with archiving, and thus free up browser space.  OK I know there are to threads regarding page moves, but as they are now redundant and won't bear any affect on any future move requests (if any happen).  There is nothing wrong in archiving them, plus copies of them can also be found in the WP:RM archives.
Also, the banner shell was removed, and I have restored it back per instructions at Template:WikiProjectBannerShell which advises that when more than two and fewer than six banners are present on the talk page, then banner shells are used - as there are more than two projects a banner shell is warranted.  Wesley☀Mouse 20:54, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: You also restored archiving. I hope you don't mind me removing it again. I thought you said you didn't mind, but it's back again now. I don't really see a point in doing it every two months. Let's just do it one time for very old discussions. You can ask a bot to archive everything prior to 2012. Moscowconnection (talk) 04:14, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah you got mistaken Moscow.  I never restored the auto-archiving, but when I restored the bannershell I forgot to remove the notice about MiszaBot too - easy mistake especially if you knew the kind of week I've had, not been an easy one trying to get my head around bereavements etc.  But working on here is taking my mind off things slightly.  Wesley☀Mouse 14:07, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Now I know, I've read your talk page. I'm very sorry to hear about it. Moscowconnection (talk) 16:28, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

text: When the older posts pre-2012 get archived, then we would need to add an "archive search" box, which is done by adding "search=yes" in the talkheader template.  Wesley☀Mouse 14:10, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Everything looks great. The archive is not long, so we probably can archive a few more threads there instead of creating another one. Moscowconnection (talk) 16:32, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: That's what you do with an archive, didn't you know?  You continue to fill up one archive until it is at a specific KB size, and then create a new one.  May I suggest familiarising yourself with Help Archive page, so that you also know how the archive works.  Wesley☀Mouse 17:02, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: That's one way to do an archive. It's not the only one, not even the only valid one. LadyofShalott 18:27, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

text: Well, if you know there are other ways to do something, please don't imply in a snarky manner that your preferred method is the only one. LadyofShalott 13:08, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know what you mean, my comment was (as I thought) in a helpful manner, it wasn't meant to come across as snarky.  Don't forget LadyofSharlott, I'm not fully compus mentus at the moment, so some of my comments may sound unusual - which is understandable considering the current circumstances.  Wesley☀Mouse 15:10, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  To archive or not to archive, that is the question 

message: Any reason why the hatnote is being removed?  The first time it was removed, the reason given was "since the articles were redirected, removing the links for now"; and the second time "Hat notes are only for articles that are not disambiguated".  However, looking at WP:HAT these notes are used to help readers locate a different article they might be seeking. Readers may have arrived at the article containing the hatnote because they were redirected, because the sought article uses a more specific, disambiguated title, or because the sought article and the article with the hatnote have similar names. Hatnotes provide links to the possibly sought article or to a disambiguation page.  As there are two articles and a disambiguated page in existence Cute (Japanese band), Cute (Maltese band), and [[Cute {Band)]]; then the hat note would be a requirement would it not?  Wesley☀Mouse 14:11, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: See this edit summary: . Moscowconnection (talk) 14:24, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: That makes sense then.  From what I see, the wrong hatnote was used.  Instead of the one that says "about..." (which was used) this article should have had "for other uses see..." which is what WP:NAMB seems to stipulate.  But that is very confusing, seeing as WP:HAT gives examples of hatnotes, but tends to sway towards using "about..." - would this be something that needs to be brought to the attention to the village pump?  Re-write both those help pages to explain things in Layman's terms.  Wesley☀Mouse 14:32, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I've just had a brainwave idea, and it could be something that may or may not play to our advantage here.  We've already established there's two articles for a band with the same name in different global locations (X (American band) and X (Australian band).  Would it be plausible to use those as a template example, seeing how they are styled etc, and use those ideas onto both Cute (Japanese band) and Cute (Maltese band)?  Could be beneficial if we're to aim for GA-class in the future on both articles.  Wesley☀Mouse 14:55, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Hatnotes are entirely unnecessary unless "Cute (band)" redirects here, which it doesn't. This title is already disambiguated, and titles that are disambiguated do not need the hatnote to differentiate between them.—Ryulong (竜龙) 19:30, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Now you've just confused things even more.  Upon reading the usage paragraph at WP:HAT it recommends using a hatnote on an article which "uses a more specific, disambiguated title".  As this article is using a more specific disambiguated title such as "Cute (Japanese band)", and there's another article called "Cute (Maltese band)" that a hatnote would need to be used to direct a reader to the disambiguation page, which in this case is "Cute (band)".  However, which version of hatnote that would be used is very vague, WP:NAMB says an improper hatnote would be "For other uses see..."; yet in my opinion that version would be more logical one to use.  It is informative to a reader that there are other articles with "Cute" in the title, as well as another band with the same name.  The other side of this would be looking at how X (American band) and X (Australian band) layout their articles.  Neither have a hatnote; which is why I re-suggested above whether it would be ideal to style Cute (Japanese band) and Cute (Maltese band) in a similar way to the X band articles.  More so when those X articles are used on a few Wiki-help pages; and it would be good to use X band articles as an inspiration to aim towards.  Wesley☀Mouse 19:39, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I've honestly never seen that in practice. No one is going to be sent to Cute (Maltese band) if they typed "C-ute" or "Cute (Japanese band)" in the search bar. No other band has this differentiation unless one is "Cute (band)" and the other is "Cute (Maltese band)".—Ryulong (竜龙) 20:03, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

text: WP:NAMB is about all types of hatnotes. "Other uses" is used simply as an example. They could have used "about". As I understand it, at least. Moscowconnection (talk) 20:06, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

text: There probably shouldn't be one on X (Australian band) either.—Ryulong (竜龙) 20:54, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Looking at the history for X (Australian band),  (who's admin) added the hatnote on 17 December 2005.  So its been there the last 7 years - probably a valid reason why it was added, and we won't know the reason unless we contact Ceyockey personally.  Wesley☀Mouse 20:58, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

text: P.S. I'll be logging out shortly, as I've to be up early tomorrow for the funeral of my mother.  Not looking forward to it at all, and it may mean I'll be taking some days off editing to bring myself back to normality.  Just TB me about comments on here, so that I can check back on my return.  Thanks Wesley☀Mouse 21:01, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hatnotes 

message: I'm quite surprised, but pleased to see this article has grown at lot in content over the last couple of weeks.  With the amount of detail that is now covered, I would say it no longer qualifies as a Start-Class, and should be promoted to a C-class.  Feel free to alter that in your own time.  I however, shall now take this article off my watchlist.  Regards and best wishes - Wesley☀Mouse 20:26, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you very much! I also have to thank the person who decided to remain anonymous. The rating is not very important if the article itself is not good. I will just need to concentrate on writing a proper article here, and I'm not sure it's a good idea to spend the summer on Wikipedia. I want to make it a better page but it will require a thorough search for sources, and the last time I tried I ended up finding something more interesting about another group and adding it there. Moscowconnection (talk) 09:32, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Assessment upgrade 

message: Not moved per WP:MOSTM, as pointed out by Aspects, and consensus in previous cases. Mdann52 (talk) 12:34, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Then I suppose you pronounce it "Degrees centigrade ute" in speech? --BDD (talk) 18:19, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

text: God damn it. MOS-TM says Do not make up new forms. "Cute" is a form used by no reliable sources.—Ryulong (琉竜) 20:41, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not convinced this is a new form in the sense intended by MOS-TM. MOS-JP says "For transliterations from katakana, use the English spelling if available (i.e., Thunderbird (サンダーバード Sandābādo?) instead of Sandābādo)," and the English spelling of キュート is Cute. Dekimasuよ! 06:29, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The group doesn't go by キュート. It goes by ℃-ute. In this discussion we found that no reliable sources use "Cute" to refer to this band.—Ryulong (琉竜) 07:33, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It's called "No established usage in English-language sources". Japanese-language sources don't count. --Moscowconnection (talk) 08:40, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: If Japanese language sources happen to be the only sources that exist, then according to that bit of naming policy you just pointed out, "follow the conventions of the language in which this entity is most often talked about". So by that logic we use "°C-ute".—Ryulong (琉竜) 11:03, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think "°C-ute" follows the conventions of the Japanese language. "キュート" does. "°C-ute" is not kanji, hiragana or katakana. --Moscowconnection (talk) 17:19, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think it matters because "°C-ute" is the only form that is consistently used throughout all reliable sources.—Ryulong (琉竜) 10:17, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: There's a major flaw in the reasoning: the reliable sources aren't in English. Japanese newspapers can use many strange characters. And the forementioned section of the English Wikipedia's manual of style mentions German, Turkish, and Portuguese names as examples. All the languages mentioned use the Latin script. --Moscow Connection (talk) 12:08, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: So we need to come up with an entirely different set of rules and standards because this group is Japanese in origin, despite having a name that is parsed in Latin script (with some punctuation marks)? That is called a double standard.—Ryulong (琉竜) 16:53, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I concur, it's a double standard (t.A.T.u., will.i.am). But "Cute" is very good, I like it. I believe it's the right way to write it. (You should go to the WP:MOSTM talk page and fight the people who wrote the guideline.) --Moscow Connection (talk) 18:03, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: "Cute" is not the proper way and because it's a double standard we shouldn't have had this debate closed by a non-admin.—Ryulong (琉竜) 09:29, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The move review discussion has been closed. I think I better stop cause the article is already at what I believe is the right title. Helping to keep the discussion alive is not a clever thing to do from my part in this situation. :-) --Moscow Connection (talk) 16:23, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 4 

message: :God damn it. MOS-TM says Do not make up new forms. "Cute" is a form used by no reliable sources.—Ryulong (琉竜) 20:41, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not convinced this is a new form in the sense intended by MOS-TM. MOS-JP says "For transliterations from katakana, use the English spelling if available (i.e., Thunderbird (サンダーバード Sandābādo?) instead of Sandābādo)," and the English spelling of キュート is Cute. Dekimasuよ! 06:29, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The group doesn't go by キュート. It goes by ℃-ute. In this discussion we found that no reliable sources use "Cute" to refer to this band.—Ryulong (琉竜) 07:33, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It's called "No established usage in English-language sources". Japanese-language sources don't count. --Moscowconnection (talk) 08:40, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: If Japanese language sources happen to be the only sources that exist, then according to that bit of naming policy you just pointed out, "follow the conventions of the language in which this entity is most often talked about". So by that logic we use "°C-ute".—Ryulong (琉竜) 11:03, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think "°C-ute" follows the conventions of the Japanese language. "キュート" does. "°C-ute" is not kanji, hiragana or katakana. --Moscowconnection (talk) 17:19, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think it matters because "°C-ute" is the only form that is consistently used throughout all reliable sources.—Ryulong (琉竜) 10:17, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: There's a major flaw in the reasoning: the reliable sources aren't in English. Japanese newspapers can use many strange characters. And the forementioned section of the English Wikipedia's manual of style mentions German, Turkish, and Portuguese names as examples. All the languages mentioned use the Latin script. --Moscow Connection (talk) 12:08, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: So we need to come up with an entirely different set of rules and standards because this group is Japanese in origin, despite having a name that is parsed in Latin script (with some punctuation marks)? That is called a double standard.—Ryulong (琉竜) 16:53, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I concur, it's a double standard (t.A.T.u., will.i.am). But "Cute" is very good, I like it. I believe it's the right way to write it. (You should go to the WP:MOSTM talk page and fight the people who wrote the guideline.) --Moscow Connection (talk) 18:03, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: "Cute" is not the proper way and because it's a double standard we shouldn't have had this debate closed by a non-admin.—Ryulong (琉竜) 09:29, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The move review discussion has been closed. I think I better stop cause the article is already at what I believe is the right title. Helping to keep the discussion alive is not a clever thing to do from my part in this situation. :-) --Moscow Connection (talk) 16:23, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Post closure

message: I notice the the kana "キュート" is back in the opening. I suspect most readers will assume that this is the band's Japanese name. But in fact it is only a pronunciation guide. So I think it is quite misleading. This is all discussed in detail at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Japan/Archive/May_2012, and I thought it was resolved a long time ago. Kauffner (talk) 06:01, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: There's no reason to remove it but for whatever reason leave in "Kyuto".—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 20:37, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no reason to remove "℃-ute" (as you did) cause it's the Japanese name of the band. By the way, i agree with Kauffner, there is no need for the kana "キュート" in the opening. But I won't remove it cause I don't want to start an edit war with you. (Cause I know you would revert back.) (How is the article AKB48 doing? I removed it from my watchlist thanks to you.) --Moscow Connection (talk) 16:31, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kana in the opening 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Complete Single Collection. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so.  signed, Rosguill talk 18:59, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Complete Single Collection" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: Please see this  with the suggestion of a chart.  Currently, the notation in the chart isn't clear, but the intention is to track membership in the group over time. It seems like it would be difficult to maintain, and seems like something more appropriate to a fan site then an encyclopedia?  Denaar (talk) 13:21, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: The timeline isn't really necessary if the years the members were in the group were already listed. Like you said, it feels more appropriate for a fan site. lullabying (talk) 20:03, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggested Member Chart