Talk:Yank Levy

message: The DYK project (nominate) 16:03, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: DYK for Albert Levy (soldier)

message: 1) OK, I think that Levy is notable for his publication alone, plus his adventures.
2) I don't consider the website that gives his date of death to be reliable in the full Wikipedia sense.  I've included it because it's th only source.
3) I'll tidy up the references tomorrow, and then i'll be done.
4) I've stuck with a UK military stub template because he was part of a British unit and the home guard (although he was never actually a member of the latter, I suspect, same grounds as Wintringham).--Red Deathy 14:58, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I found far better sources for a lot of information, including his date of birth.  7&6=thirteen (☎) 12:54, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Justifications

message: Could somebody fix that with a bot.  I managed to miss it up.  Thanks.  7&6=thirteen (☎) 22:38, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Not with a bot, though. Huon (talk) 00:32, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Date format drift

message: I have some suggestions for further modifications on this article.   Here.  Feel free to use them.  Remember to paraphrase, as those are all direct quotes.  7&6=thirteen (☎) 21:46, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Notes on [["Yank" Levy]]

message: G'day, in response to the message on my talk page, sorry I don't have the time to get in too deep with that article and have to limit myself to a quick copy edit, I'm afraid. Anyway, I do have a couple of suggestions, though:
* the first sentence of the Military career section says Levy was involved in all wars and insurections between 1911 and 1945, but doesn't really detail anything before 1918. Can it be clarified what wars/insurections he was involved in between 1911 and 1918?;
* there appears to be a sequence error in the Military career section. Paragraph three in the Military career section talks about training in Nova Scotia, England and Egypt and seems to relate to his pre-39th Battalion service, and yet the paragraph before has already moved on from that. I'd suggest rearranging parts of paras 2, 3 and 4 in the Military career section to flow more sequentially. 
* "Despite having been deported from the United States in 1933..." this is the first the reader hears about the deportation and it seems to be done in a passive way as it leaves the reader wondering why (they don't get the answer until a number of paragraphs later). I suggest discussing this more directly as it seems pretty significant. For instance, a paragraph the is sequential to the rest of the narrative (this links with my next point below)
* in the lecturing career section, the paragraph that discusses the armed robbery pardon seems a bit out of place, because it introduces information about the robbery for the first time really late in the article. Is there is a way to mention the robbery earlier in the article?
* I suggest breaking up the lecturing career section with another header, perhaps "Later life"
* there are also a number of very short paragraphs in the last part of the Lecturing career section, which I'd suggest trying to merge if possible
* is this a typo?: "See also Battle of the Pips.[18] page 14" (additionally, I'm not sure of the relevance of the link to the Battle of the Pips. The article doesn't seem to mention Levy..."
* if possible I suggest expanding the lead a little further to make it a couple of paragraphs
Anyway, that's it from me. Good work on the article so far, and thanks for your efforts. Good luck with taking the article further. Once you are done, you might consider putting it up for peer review, as that might help generate more suggestions/comments/helpers. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 22:09, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: *"He trained in Nova Scotia, England, and Egypt, and was dispatched as an officer as a machine gunner." That's a bit confusing- was he an officer with specialisation in machine guns, or trained as a machine gunner (in which case, it appears, he wouldn't have been an officer). Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 23:15, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

text: *My reading of the American National Biography on his combat knife is that he came up with a design, and approached the Case company, who may have turned him down. Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 07:42, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

text: *Also from the ANB "Levy was fond of making up stories to enhance his prowess as an adventurer". William E. Fairbairn seems to have had the same tendency! Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 07:51, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

text: *For example, "He was captured at the Battle of Jarama where he had manned a heavy machine gun and played a pivotal role in the battle." It appears that at the Battle of Jarama the machine gunners were given the wrong ammunition- they arrived on "Suicide Hill" but were of little use- subsequently 30 of them were captured. If he manned a heavy machine gun and played a pivotal role, he must have been using it as a club. Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 08:04, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

text: *Okay, correction- from his own account he was in charge of a two-man mg crew. First one man and then the second were shot dead from behind and to the side of Levy. Levy then realised his position had been outflanked and he was now surrounded; he ran towards the rear but was motioned back into the Republicans' trench by a Nationalist soldier Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 10:27, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

text: 7&6=thirteen (☎) 12:21, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

text: *At a guess, the "Todd Winer" who is mentioned in 2006 as researching a biography is Director of Public Relations, American Jewish Committee. Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 13:00, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

text: *Doubtful that Levy suffered the effects of a gas attack in Palestine in 1919- the British used gas against the Turks in 1917 and Iraq (possibly tear gas) in 1920. Can't find any reference to use of gas by the Turks, who were out of Palestine altogether by the end of 1918. Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 20:45, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

text: *Levy claimed to have served under a General Gómez in Mexico in 1920. The only General Gómez I can find is General Félix U. Gómez, killed fighting US troops in the Battle of Carrizal in 1916 (there's another prominent Gómez in the Revolution, who was a physician). The claim to have recruited 1,200 Canadians for the Spanish Republicans also doesn't seem to fit the facts (out of a total of 1,500-odd Canadians who fought, it appears (but this is uncertain) that 1,200 were already present in Spain before the Battle of Jarama. Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 07:47, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

text: *Just found the marriage record for Bert Levy and Mary Prezenter, 3 January 1921. She was Russian, aged 19. He was a salesman, living in Cuyahogo County, Ohio. His mother's maiden name given as Sarah Pollock. Interestingly, a private family tree gives his name as "Albert (Bert Yank) Levy", but since whoever compiled  the tree gives year of birth of Levy's daughter Rose as 1909 (and year of birth of Mary her mother as 1902) I doubt it's got much veracity! So… was he actually in Mexico? Is any of this actually true? The ANBO entry is beginning to seem a bit unreliable. Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 13:49, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Great research job.  I only dealt with the sources I found.  I did find find one that said he was gassed, and it was I who interpolated (a nice word for "guessed") the Mustard gas.  So have at it and make the changes.  You don't need my approval! 7&6=thirteen (☎) 15:00, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks! Think the records might however be regarded as primary sources and therefore not allowable- secondly I've been "surmising" a bit, such as with the identity of General Gomez. So I'll use my sandbox to try and sort out a possible timeline. Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 21:37, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

text: I think primary sources are allowable, albeit we're not supposed to WP:OR.  They are still evidence.  At a minimum, one could cite them in a note to counteract the other proposition, and with a reference to the primary source.  You found it, and it can be cited and should not be ignored.  WP: Truth has some application here. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 21:51, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: conflict in sources are common.  We have them in this article.  For example, there is a difference in opinion as to the sentence Levy received for his Arm Rombbery confviction.  Adn trying to sort out his military career is at best murky.  I am working on a similar conflict in Speyer wine bottle, even as we write this, 7&6=thirteen (☎) 21:53, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:WPNOTRS comments regarding primary sources  "...specific facts may be taken from primary sources, secondary sources that present the same material are preferred. ... All interpretive claims, analyses, or synthetic claims about primary sources must be referenced to a secondary source, rather than original analysis of the primary-source material by Wikipedia editors."  So, basically, yes you can take the specific facts of a name from the primary source, but should not make any "interpretive claims, analyses, or synthetic claims". — Makyen (talk) 10:54, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

text: Levy was discharged from the British Army in January 1920, was living in Cuyahogo at the time of the 1920 Census, and married in Cuyahogo in January 1921. So it seems clear he was nowhere near the Mexican Revolution. If he was in Nicaragua in 1926 (as he claimed) he probably was involved with local American support for the Liberals. His conviction for a robbery in Philadelphia in January 1927 seems to me to rule out any connection with Sandino. And as an aside, he claimed that in a fight he carried one knife up his sleeve and another on a lanyard round his neck (a photo of his knife collection shows one on a loop of rope). Pretty awkward positions (the sleeve knife has to be worn upside down, and the lanyard forms a handy noose for your opponent to grab if you're not quick enough getting it over your head). Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 08:58, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Suggestions

message: *Put text from Time Magazine article on reviewers page.  Could not e-mail it to them, as that option was not available.  I would also like to figure out how to put in the equivalent of a Permalink from the TIME magazine website into the article.  I am a subscriber, but I can't figure out the options they present.  The options they present are: Facebook Twitter Tumblr LinkedIn StumbleUpon Reddit Digg Mixx Del.i.cious Google+  Reprints. If anyone has insight, I would appreciate it.  7&6=thirteen (☎) 16:54, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Meanwhile, I have contacted TIME magazine and asked them how to generate a "Permalink" 7&6=thirteen (☎) 17:46, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: [[TIME]] Magazine article on [["Yank" Levy]]

message: It wasn't George Weston (as stated in ANBO entry for Levy) but Garfield Weston who was responsible for funding the repatriation of Canadian Mac-Pap veterans. George died in 1924. The citation for this info is (according to the Wiki article) "World's baking king now Canada's biggest grocer", Toronto Daily Star, October 4, 1947. Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 20:34, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Well done!  7&6=thirteen (☎) 20:37, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: [[W. Garfield Weston]]

message: The article currently asserts that, after he was released from Falangist custody, he was exchanged, and "personally recruited 1,200 volunteers for the Republican cause."  To me that implies he recruited 1,200 volunteers who traveled to Spain to fight for the Republicans.  Hello.  How many Canadians, total, traveled to Spain?  The Mackenzie-Papineau unit was only a battalion -- not a brigade.
Levy may have made this assertion, but it shouldn't be reported, as fact.  He may have meant he convinced 1,200 individuals to go to Spain, or donate money, or other support that could be done within Canada.  I think this assertion should be rewritten.  How about replace 1,200 with many?  Geo Swan (talk) 22:03, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: That's exactly what the WP:RS says.  The test is WP:Verifiability not WP:Truth.  In my opinion, I don't see any reason to change it.  7&6=thirteen (☎) 01:17, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, but we aren't supposed to repeat dubious claims as if they were fact.  Claims, that aren't genuine facts, are supposed to be attributed to whomever made them.  If Levy made this claim, this exact claim, then the article should say something like, "upon his return to Canada, Levy recruited support for the Republican cause.  He said he recruited 1,200 individuals to the republican cause."  If you check the source, again, and decide it really only supports saying he "recruited 1,200 supporters to the Republican cause", then that it what it should say.  Geo Swan (talk) 14:55, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: recruits for the spanish civil war...

message: I've tried to give some areas, in particular the "Training officer and Consultant" section, a more encyclopedic and NPOV tone, though I still feel there are some tweaks to be made and other issues with the overabundance of inline quotations and the relevance of some information. I haven't had the chance to go through the sources more thoroughly but hope to give them a look with a view to increasing the general cohesion.  Gnomenea (talk) 08:56, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Encyclopedic style