Talk:Jock Tamson's bairns

message: Got to admit, I've never, ever heard of this one.--Nydas 09:46, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't know where you're from Nydas, but it's a very well known phrase in the Dundee area at least. Alexforcefive (talk) 05:12, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

text: I don't think Nydas has been in or around Glasgow much, or saw much on Scottish television. This is a very well known and oft used phrase in and around the places I've lived and worked in Scotland.2.25.6.211 (talk) 15:48, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Is this really a 'popular adage'?

message: An anonymous user has deprodded my deletion suggestion, and added another meaning to the article. I still think this article should be deleted due to a lack of evidence that it's a popular adage - and there is no source for this new meaning.--Nydas 14:02, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This phrase is a popular adage, the band Jock Tamson's Bairns are named so because it is a popular phrase, known and used by many. The only bit I have a problem with is the part about alleged lack of acceptance towards people who have moved on. I am not denying that this sentiment exists amongst some people, but usually when the one doing the moving on displays an arrogance or superiority, although I accept that this is not always true and there will always be jealous people. However, I feel this is the same the world over, many Scots are quite happy to celebrate achievements and philanthropy of someone like Andrew Carnegie, for example. The argument that it does not return enough results on Google to be a popular phrase is laughable, type "Cogito ergo sum" into Google and will find many links to a heavy metal band - therefore the google test proves nothing. I worry about the increasing Googlefication of the world in the 21st century, if something doesn't turn up enough on a Google search, does this mean it's eventual deletion from society as well as Wikipedia? Benson85 22:07, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Deletion

message: Hansard 10 Mar 1997 http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199697/cmhansrd/vo970310/debtext/70310-07.htm
Mrs Ewing
We are all privileged and honoured to have been elected to serve in this place, but we need to see out of our own back windows into a world where fear, poverty and depression dominate the lives of citizens in our constituencies and countries, and indeed abroad. Today's headlines, to which the Secretary of State for Scotland was trying to draw attention, must not distract any of us from the vision and deeply held value that we are all Jock Tamson's bairns. 
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This is a very well-known phrase, appearing in the Dictionary of the Scottish Language. There are references from the mid 19th century to the present day http://www.dsl.ac.uk/
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I've picked up this adage since living in Scotland so I'd say it was common and widely used. See;
Scottish Parliament Presiding Officers Address to the Queen http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/business/officialReports/meetingsParliament/or-03/sor0603-02.htm
Centre for Political Song http://www.caledonian.ac.uk/politicalsong/songs/clark1.html Article promoting  Scottish education http://www.friendsofscotland.gov.uk/education/children.html
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(This is another poster - don't know the conventions for showing that):
This expression is certainly used by at least older Scots of various regions - I hear it from time to time and even use it myself.
The band in question chose this name precisely BECAUSE the expression is well-known, and it was a combination of socio-political comment and a wee bit of humour.
Why should one person who doesn't know it be a reason for deletion??? Why so emphatic about it??
It also has acquired a slightly literary tongue-in-cheek touch in some circles, I've discovered in Edinburgh recently.
All examples oral, so no printed sources to link to here.
:You should comment here if you want to have more influence on the discussion. You can sign your comments by typing ~~~~.--Nydas 20:03, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Usage 

message: The article translated Jock as John, but everything I've ever known/read/heard says that Jock is equivalent to Jack, and Ian would be Scottish (coming from Scottish Gaelic) for John. Anyone have information on this? Canaen 23:37, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Afraid I can't help with a full answer but see  here in the ever-useful DSL. --HJMG 08:45, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The current links would be Jock n. and Jock. As for Ian, see Ian – it's from Gaelic, so you might want to look "John" up in Am Faclair Beag, there are 5 different equivalents of it there, including "Iain". 37.47.201.148 (talk) 22:45, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jock: John or Jack? 

message: I can't help wondering about internet claims that this phrase originated with John Thomson and would love more evidence. Does anyone know of any book(s) that would help get this clear? 
Some reasons for scepticism:
*The claim varies - sometimes people say it's about JT's children, sometimes his congregation. This says "perhaps" and "attributed". 
*When JT died in 1840 he got an obit of about 100 words in the Scotsman - no mention of phrase. 7 years later the Sc. Journal (?) said  " 'We’re a’ John Tamson’s bairns' is an expression of mutual good fellowship very frequently heard in Scotland."
*The DSL is aware of the JT claim but doesn't offer any support.
*I'm aware of other sayings which have been widely but incorrectly (sometimes very plausibly) attributed to one specific individual. One example: .
--HJMG 08:04, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: John Thomson?

message: Could this be used in any way as an illustration? --HJMG 08:04, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think so, if the image is public domain, or fair use, or whatever. We could maybe cut off the black top thing, and just put the image in a frame. It'd be a nice addition. Canaen 03:36, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Image

message: There's no reference for the claim that 70/133 families in Buckhaven were the Thomson, but it is a common joke that Fife is/was rife with incest. Any idea if this is actually true? Lewisly (talk) 14:18, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Ripping on Fife?

message: Erm, wouldn't that be Clann MhicThàmhais (or maybe ?Clann 'IcThàmhais, I'm not sure when the elided form applies)? 37.47.201.148 (talk) 23:43, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Clann MhicThomais"?