Talk:Anna Nicole Smith/Archive 3

message: [Personal attack removed.--Eloquence*] Rosie O'Donnell found it necessary to trash
Anna Nicole on The View the morning of her death. R.I.P. Anna
Nicole and don't worry what that blowhard Rosie says. The Donald
was right. proserpine Feb 10, 2007 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.250.29.104 (talk) 02:10, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't understand how Rosie was supposed to know Anna would die that day. Just about everyone else was bashing her before her death. Myrockstar 02:44, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Smith's own mother commented after she died that she was probably drugged up and that that's what killed her. Wahkeenah 03:05, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This talk page is for discussing how editors can improve this article. There are plenty of forums where you can express your opinion. Wikipedia is not the place to do so. dposse 03:19, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The discussion point is about whether Rosie O'Donnell's comments have any place in the article. I say they don't. What say you? Wahkeenah 03:28, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: How notable are her Rosie O'Donnell's comments? Depending on how notable they are, are there any sources we can list on Wikipedia? Acalamari 03:38, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually that's not the "discussion point." The original poster merely expressed a personal opinion, while calling O'Donnell a "loudmouth lesbian." He or she said nothing at all about the article. And no, obviously O'Donnell's comments aren't relevant enough for the article.  Moncrief 03:42, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, if you take away the slanderous stuff from the original poster's comments, there's an opinion expressed on whether Rosie's comments (which merely echo those of everyone in the media in this case) are worthy of inclusion. I think the consensus so far is NO. Wahkeenah 04:09, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please read the original poster's comments again. There was NO opinion expressed about whether or not O'Donnell's comments should be included in the article. Certain people, for whatever reason, use Wikipedia as a soundingboard for their own opinions and beliefs, as if it were an AOL chat room.  I attempted to delete the comments due to their utter irrelevancy, but was unsuccessful.  Moncrief 05:53, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: While I agree that the *way* in which the original post was phrased could have been a bit less... um frank, that by itself is not a reasonable reason to remove it.  Also, talk pages are not only for discussing how to improve the article.  They are for discussing the article in all it's permutations.  Many talk page comments only ask a question like "what does x mean"?  They aren't removed simply because they "don't tend to improve the article."  In general there are only a very slim number of talk page comments that can be removed.  For example, personal attacks.  That's why I reverted it, because the remark that Rosie talked about her that day, is novel to me and interesting.  Whatever Rosie said may or may not be useful for the article, I don't know exactly what she said. Wjhonson 06:50, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I admit that attributing noble intentions on the part of the original poster was a serious stretch. And if it had stayed in that vein, it was certainly worthy of deletion. However, it quickly evolved into a legitimate discussion. That's why I'm not so eager, as some are, to delete stuff from talk pages just because they appear not to be useful. However, I'm not opposed to it either, and I have also deleted blatant vandalism on talk pages from time to time. However, I don't think it's appropriate to put too much "prior restraint" on the talk page contents, as seemingly off-topic or irrelevant discussions can lead to useful and appropriate points. Wahkeenah 09:52, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Rosie Trashes Anna Nicole

message: She was subsequently called "the next Marilyn Monroe" in press reports, a comparison she encouraged by wearing a hairstyle reminiscent of Monroe's, as well as her trademark white dress.
:Needs a citation
Becoming one of Playboy's most popular models, Smith began a trend for a more voluptuous look. She next posed nude for the May 1992 centerfold (under the name Vickie Smith).
:Smith beginning a trend needs a citation. That she was "one of playboys most popular models" before May 1992 needs a citation.
 
She secured a contract to replace supermodel Claudia Schiffer in the Guess jeans ad campaign in a series of sultry black and white photographs. Guess capitalized on Smith's strong resemblance to sex symbol Jayne Mansfield and even put her in Jayne-inspired photo sessions.
:Succeed is a better word than "replace". The Jayne Mansfield claims all need citations.
:There needs to be clarification about how/when she adopted the Anna Nicole name. News reports (CNN/MSNBC) had people making comments that the name was thought up in conjunction with guess during the planning for the guess campaign.
: E! True Hollywood Story discusses how Anna's name was changed and by who. It happened sometime before the Guess? modeling contract and Playboy... 24.192.126.24 06:46, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, "Great Big Beautiful Doll: The Anna Nicole Smith Story" is the source for her name change. Eric and D'Eva Redding's book follows her story from her humble beginnings as Vickie Lynn Hogan of Mexia, Texas to Vickie Lynn Smith, to Anna Nicole Smith, the latter name she got from Guess? Jeans president Paul Marciano.24.192.126.24 06:50, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations needed 

message: Hasn't anyone been able to find anything for the unreferenced section? I tagged that section the day she died, and it's been like that ever since. Has anyone been able to source anything in that section? Acalamari 21:56, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Most of the statements have sources provided.  It's important to note that not every sentence needs to have a citation when the information is found within citations provided in sentences around the material cited.  I also changed the  tags to  tags.--DavidShankBone 01:15, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I understand that not every sentence needs to be sourced (articles would look messy if there were, and I have seen an article with so many sources it's a mess), but I'm talking about an entire section. That is my concern. Acalamari 18:10, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added a couple of citations.  Perhaps you could remove the section tag, and  tag the specific statements you feel need citations? Wjhonson 18:50, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course. I will gladly do that. Acalamari 19:03, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have completed this task. Acalamari 21:13, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uncited Section. 

message: Among other cleanup, I was attempting to add this to the article. Can someone please put it in right before her death.
TrimSpa Lawsuit
On February 6 [2007]], TrimSpa and Smith became the targets of a class-action lawsuit in California that alleged that their marketing of the weight loss pills was false and misleanding. The previous month TrimSpa paid $1.5 million to settle a dispute with the U.S. Federal Trade Commission over the effectiveness of the pills. 
On a different subject, there is now a reputable report (with photos) that she had methadone in a fridge in her bedroom in the Bahamas. See . This should be mentioned with regard to her or her son in the article.
12.96.162.45 21:07, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  now that the page is locked again, can someone add this new section 

message: Some new information. There supposedly is a will. The probate proceedings will now be conducted in the Bahamas rather than the U.S. And given the rather bad reputation of the courts (and the government - see yesterday) in the Bahamas, the outcome isn't difficult to guess. It will also be possible there to get around conflict of interest problems involved with the same person having written the will, being its executor, being a major beneficrary and being the guardian of the other major beneficrary. That arrangement would have been unlikely to stand in the US courts. You put together all the events of the last six months it really starts to look bad. The combination of her son (and main heir) dying, her obtaining perminent resident status in the Bahamas, a sham marriage that wasn't really a marriage and someone getting a name put on the birth certificate and the quick piling up of a legal/political war chest of several million dollars in very available cash from the sale of photographs/interviews. I really wonder what they told her to convince her to become a permanent resident in the Bahamas. She didn't need it to stay in the country indefinately and she didn't need it for custody purposes because her child was born there. Ironically, the only useful thing about that status would have been in the event of her death. 12.96.162.45 17:59, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Source? dposse 21:07, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: For the probate being conducted in the Bahamas see . The original source is Smith attorney Wayne Munroe speaking to someone from the associated press. If you go looking on Google News, you can easily find sources for Stern being the executor (her main lawyer announced it). The corrupt nature of the government in the Bahamas is opinion, but somewhat validated by Smith's bedroom photos with the government official who fast-tracked her residency. Aside from everything else thats been mentioned, there might not be as much money in the estate as people might suppose. I suspect (but obviously can't prove) that she has been financing her lifestyle and lawyers by borrowing against the potential value of the Marshall judgement. You look at all the lawyers and hangers-on that were living off her and it adds up to more money being spent than can have come from trimspa and E!.  63.3.5.2 03:35, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  new information about probate 

message: There was a report on CNN and MSNBC about Anna Nicole Smith allegedly choking on her own vomit. I want it to be on the page that it was said. I put on there a reference and such, and I feel it should be on there because it is a potential cause of death.
What do you all think? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nimrauko (talk • contribs) 18:38, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I read something like that as well.  Something like somebody... the bodyguard? thinking that *maybe* she choked on her own vomit.  Not sure where I read it though. Of course that raises the question of why she was so comatose that she couldn't vomit in a normal way.  The vast majority of us vomit and don't choke on it, and taking flu medications doesn't typically make people into vomit-choking vegetables. ;) Wjhonson 20:11, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A person does not need to be "comatose" to choke on vomit. The most common cause is that the person has passed out while intoxicated, but any medication that induces a deep sleep can be a cause, especially if the taker has a delayed adverse reaction to the medicine that causes the vomting. — Walloon 20:49, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

text: The vomit stories all seem to go back to "access hollywood" as a source. That story has a medical non-professional suggesting it based on the presence of vomit around her. The medical examiner did not ever suggest that choking or loss of air was the cause of death so I would not tend to put much credibility on the story. The person supposedly worked for her, but is not identified. Also, the kind of "vomiting" thats being talked about here isn't what you would think of as the normal vomiting that most people experience. When you start mixing bunches of drugs, things in the body can start going wrong. It can lead to heart failure or airways getting clogged with stuff. There are lots of automatic things going on in the body all the time that keep hearts beating and lungs breathing. People take things like coughing for granted. The right combination of drugs can mess up those automatic systems. And it can happen easier than most people think.  And if your an alcoholic on methadone, even simple things can be bad. 12.96.162.45 21:04, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Note that one, two nights ago? on one of those programs, the first person who found Anna said there was no signs of bodily fluids when she arrived. I think she was a Hard Rock employee.  --  Zanimum 16:31, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  I was wanting to add... 

message: The text concerning the dispute over the house in the Bahamas needs improvement. I'm locked out of the article, so I'm leaving this as a suggested improvement.
Thompson located and purchased the house with his own money in order to help Smith relocate to the Bahamas quickly. There was an agreement with Smith that the deed to the house would be recorded in her name once she obtained a mortgage/note to finance the purchase of the house. This never happened. The official recorded deed still lists Thompson as the owner. An unrecorded deed was created with Smith's name as a convinenance to get the utilities of the property turned on and to create a basis for her claim of residency in the Bahamas. Thompson has stated that he did not press the issue of the mortgage because of her pregnancy and the death of her son but had no intention of ever turning the house over to her as a gift or allowing her to record a deed in her name until he received payment.  
Thompson has been attempting to re-claim the property since November of 2006. He had the power to the house briefly turned off and seved Smith with an eviction notice. Smith's response to the serving of the notice was "You get off this property. This is a gift and I ain't ever leaving. And I'll show you, Ben, you ain't never gonna see the baby again!. Smith had claimed that Thompson was the father of her child until being informed that he was incapable.
12.96.162.45 19:28, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Again I do not think TMZ is a reliable source to be quoting and adding as FACT to the article. The Bahamas Journal newspaper has stated that even though G. Ben Thompson has filed an action and the house is in dispute, he cannot sell the property without a deed and he'd only be selling the "action" itself.  Mariza21 10:43, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  corrections about the house in the Bahamas 

message: According to the Associated Press, the number of potential fathers is now five, including the late J. Howard Marshall and former Smith bodyguard Alexander Denk. 147.70.242.40 01:14, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: J. Howard Marshall died in 1995, so that would be the longest human pregnancy in the history of the world. Moncrief 17:06, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ... and the list of paternal possibilities keeps on growing 

message: Sorry, but think the photo at the moment is awful. I couldn't even tell that it was Anna! We should either have a picture of her in her hey-day, or the most recent one before she died. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.41.116.239 (talk) 12:15, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you can find a freely available image then great, but at present this is the only one we've got. Trebor 12:23, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Agreed with Trebor. Wikipedia tries to only use free license images as much as possible.  --  Zanimum 16:11, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Picture

message: There are now sources that confirm that she was perscribed methadone when eight months pregnant. They even have the name of the doctor.  
The doctor and the phramacy would appear to have commited multiple crimes. 
Please. can someone who can edit the article add this information. 12.96.162.45 22:27, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you find better sources than TMZ? dposse 14:39, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Methadone and Pregnancy - please add 

message: The rewrite of her early life, which I have reverted, introduced several errors of fact. I have found no evidence that Anna Nicole Smith's mother Virgie was married to David L. Tacker, Sr. — she was 13 years old when Tacker Sr. got her pregnant. And Anna Nicole was not "a small child" when she moved from Houston to Mexia, Texas. She was in the ninth grade, 14-15 years old. — Walloon 13:46, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Early life

message: For those of you writing this article, you really should watch the Anna Nicole Smith episode on Howard Stern On Demand.  My husband and I watched it the other night out of curiousity and I must say I was flabberghasted.
There are numerous clips of both Anna Nicole and Howard K. Stern going back approximately 10 years as well as a call from Donald Trump to Howard discussing her life, death, and Howard K. Stern.
Important Highlight:  
Anna Nicole says repeatedly that she would will f*** anyone, except for Howard K. Stern and then goes into a bathroom to fool around with one of Howard Stern's employees.
LK from Albany, NY
:Are you sure your not confusing Howard Stern and Howard K. Stern (as the article and this talk page mentions, they're different people). The radio show is obviously Howard Stern. Are you sure she wasn't saying she would fuck anyone except Howard Stern (not Howard K. Stern). Sounds like something she might say when talking to Howard Stern... I was channel surfing and happened upon E and notice she was on Howard Stern in 1995 or something. This was long before Howard K. Stern was publicly part of her life AFAIK so if this was from then, it seems very unlikely she was referring to Howard K. Stern Nil Einne 17:52, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anna Nicole Special on Howard Stern On Demand 

message: http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/images/02/16/pleadings021607v2.pdf--Sexecutioner 18:21, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anna's Will 

message: In the "See Also" section, one of the lists is a list of stalked persons. However, there is no mention of her being stalked anywhere in the article proper. What is going on here?? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.92.236.217 (talk) 02:01, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The list of stalked celebraties has references. Perhaps some mention is merited in the article, perhaps not if it isn't that significant/noteable Nil Einne 17:47, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

text: If I recall correctly, it was a former boyfriend of hers (one of the many now claiming paternity) who is now in prison for it. Trebor 17:55, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Stalked?" 

message: What do you think? Once the disputes have been resolved, and she grows up a bit, she'll almost certainly be a notable figure for inclusion.--h i s   s p a c e   r e s e a r c h 19:35, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In my opinion, until there's a valid reason, she should be a subset of this article. She hasn't done anything yet except be born.  Joyous! | Talk 19:50, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

text: It's been a while since I saw an AfD for one of these, but I'd agree that an article purely on the baby would be unnecessary - just redirect the baby's name to here (the same way Apple Martin redirects to Gwyneth Paltrow). Trebor 21:31, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should her baby daughter be given her own article? 

message: Maybe I missed this (it 11 pm where I am, please bear with me), but I don't see a section or mention about her similarites to Marilyn Monroe. I remember watching this special about Nicole about how she idolised Monroe. I dont know much about the subject, but I think it should be noted.  "THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!" 05:01, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it could use a mention, but certainly not a whole section.--h i s   s p a c e   r e s e a r c h 05:14, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it could do with  small section. 212.139.222.62 21:50, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  No Marilyn Monroe? 

message: How about this?  If Zsa Zsa's husband is the father of Anna Nicole's daughter, Dannielynn, that makes Danielynn and Paris Hilton related by marriage a couple of times removed, as Zsa Zsa was at one time married to Conrad Hilton, Paris' great grandfather.  Talk about a story made for tabloids!  This should be added to her family section. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.86.240.195 (talk) 01:27, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't get that at all. 212.139.222.62 21:50, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Regardless, it's speculation that does not belong in Wikipedia. 147.70.242.40 02:11, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Zsa Zsa and Anna Nicole Smith

message: Just saw it on the tele. If someone can add a source to the change when one becomes available? One won't be yet, he just finished his verdict. --Scorpios 20:59, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I just added sources from MSNBC and CNN. dposse 22:15, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Final Resting Place

message: In the article, it is said that Smith divorced her husband Billy in 1987, but then also later it is mentioned that they divorced in 1993. Can someone fix this? 71.80.121.174 00:37, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inconsistancies 

message: Vandalism, i cannot change it. At the end of the article: "and then the docs found out she was a crackwhore". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.17.95.60 (talk • contribs).
:Vandalism has already been reverted, the user has been warned. Thank you very much for noticing it and bringing it up though. AecisBrievenbus 22:15, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism

message: About one of the appeals, is sourced only to Yahoo News, which is not a RS. There is probably a better. (Since this source has a headline implying dubious motives to one of the parties, and is used to support the statement of such motives in the article, it is particularly unacceptable. DGG 02:58, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yahoo News isn't reliable? Since when? dposse 22:35, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

text: I don't see a problem with citing yahoo news articles as a reliable source. There is an issue that, as I have noticed, Yahoo news does not keep archives of articles over the long term, so six months to a year down the road, the link will die. So if you cite yahoo news, you need to cite the full article information (author, title, date of publication, date of retrieved, etc). A dead link with no information on its history, it not a reliable source. Dr. Cash 18:56, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Ref 28

message: There appears to be a rumor going around that she had the autoimmune disease Lupus. That could explain alot. Cited from my grandmother who said she saw it on the news. 164.47.74.37 21:35, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anna Nicole stricken with Lupus? 

message: Does Anna Nicole Smith's daughter, Dannielynn, count as a Bahamian American or just a regular Bahamian native? thepriceiswrong! February 28 2007 6:55 (UTC)
:Unless she has been registered as a birth abroad, she is a Bahamian native and citizen.  I doubt that ANS registered her birth because she wanted her daughter to fall under Bahamian law. Mariza21 10:12, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question about Anna Nicole's daughter 

message: I'm much too tired to do it at this moment, but FOXNews  and The Enquirer  both say that medical examiners have found that in preliminary testing, pneumonia killed ANC, and the prescription drugs she was taking only helped to power up the syptoms.  Can somebody please insert this somewhere and cite it at the bottom? 72.200.27.179 05:00, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pneumonia killed Anna Nicole Smith 

message: Not sure but, asn't the ruling been givin', to bury 'Smith' in the Bahamas on March 2? Didn't Arthur drop her appeal? This should be added to this article & Death of Anna Nicole Smith article. GoodDay 22:33, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Settled on Bahamas for burial

message: So far I have heard that the deed is in fact actually in Anna's name. Now I do understand that G. Ben Thompson had "gifted/lent" Anna $900,000 US towards the purchase of that home.  Here is my question; why would the ownership of the home be in question at all? When you lend someone money, whatever they decide to buy with that money is not something you can claim as yours unless a lien is placed on that property (sort of how you buy a car and do not get the deed until you pay it off).  G. Ben Thompson should file a repayment request from the estate of Anna Nicole Smith.  He has NO RIGHT to the property that is titled under her name, legally. Mariza21 10:10, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *On a semi-related note, the article about Gaither Ben Thompson is on AfD for those who are interested. --LeflymanTalk 23:16, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mansion Dispute 

message: I think the time was 3pm, somebody add that or 2:30, special article on her mother would be good, she tried to stop the burial again, o My goodness...http://www.journalstandard.com/articles/2007/03/02/ap-update/d8nk9ln00.txt —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.107.220.106 (talk) 22:46, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Time of burial

message: In the ‘spokesperson’ section, her weight loss is presented twice, I think: as a loss of 69 lb (31 kg), and then 80 lb (36 kg).  Is this really a duplication, and can someone please clarify it?
Earthlyreason 02:31, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The statement is accurate. As Anna said in one of her many "Larry King Live" interviews - she "got fat twice". Both significant weight gains followed the death of J. Howard Marshall and the attending court proceedings. Unfortunately, she didn't get much press on the first weight loss and she didn't keep the weight off for very long! LOL! Cleo123 09:20, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Lost weight twice?

message: I have removed the "Assessment" Section. This strikes me as very inappropriate and non-encyclopedic. It is not Wikipedia's position to evaluate or assess the lives of our biographical subjects. This section is strictly POV. We should not be adding "sections" for the sole purpose of reprinting copyrighted editorial pieces. This strikes me as entirely improper and inconsistent with Wikipedia's standard biographical format. Cleo123 08:14, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. It should stay out of the article. dposse 17:01, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I disagree. It was useful. Bellagio99 20:55, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Useful? Useful how? Please, explain. How is a section in which we lift and reprint a copyrighted editorial opinion piece - useful? Cleo123 08:23, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  What facts are added to the article by this section? Cleo123 08:24, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  The facts added provide a knowledge-based perspective on Ms. Smith's life. However, I am not going to revert you, as you obviously feel more strongly about this than I do. Good luck. Bellagio99 13:29, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of "assessment" section