Talk:David S. Touretzky/Archive 1

message: The spelling is "Touretzky". Alternate spellings: Touretsky, Touretzsky, Toruetzky ... any others? I've set up redirects from "David -", "Dave -" and "David S. -" of all of these to this page. --David Gerard 21:18, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Did you catch all the lowercases as well? --maru 22:47, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Misspellings 

message: David Gerard, you write that CAGW is backed by the Church of Scientology? What is the source of this? --AI 21:50, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks like I misremembered - they're backed by Microsoft and the tobacco industry, not the CoS - David Gerard 15:02, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for correcting this. --AI 03:30, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citizens Against Government Waste 

message: Here is the full list of quotes as compiled by religiousfreedomwatch.org
User:AI/Touretzky quotes
:These are not quotes, these are sentences taken out of context from chats, I doubt they qualify as standalone quotes. I'm sure it serves the interest of RFW, but certainly not the interest of Wikipedia. "No wonder Scientology hates the internet" is indeed a quote since it's often part of the signature of Professor Touretzky on alt.religion.scientology. Povmec 03:51, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quotes 

message: A Request for Mediation has been made to resolve the ongoing dispute on this page.  The actual request can be seen directly at Wikipedia:Requests_for_mediation#Talk:David_S._Touretzky. --Modemac 11:16, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: My removing personal attacks and comments is your basis for a dispute regarding this article?! --AI 12:39, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request for Mediation 

message: AI,
I have carefully re-read the section on Religious Freedom Watch re. Prof. Touretzky as a consequence of your note. Plenty of claims are made on that site, but there are no third-party external sources cited in those articles as to where the information presented came from or how it was investigated. If it is "original research" by Religious Freedom Watch without referencial support from other sources, that would still show the integrity of the source to be poor and would still not be acceptable as material on Wikipedia. Verifiable studies always quote their original sources of information and cross-reference to existing trusted sources, and RFW does not. Furthermore, the tone of the material presented is derisory and lacks objectivity, which is generally a poor sign when considering academic documents. I am sorry, but I contend that the facts of the matter still dictate that the source fails to meet these basic criteria of verifiability and integrity, thus I still maintain that it is not a reputable source of data. One cannot trust information produced out of thin air. 
Regards,  NicholasTurnbull 02:40, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: RFW is a notable critic of David Touretzky. They have attributed many sources, but in this case they did not properly validate the IRC logs. That does not discredit them entirely. Also, notice I did not use the word YOU in this discussion to explain my point. There is no reason all Wikipedia users cannot conduct themselves in the same way. "Comment on content, not on the contributor." Thank you for addressing me in a civil manner. --AI 02:58, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

text: Thank you for your opinion about RFW.  However, please read WP:NOR. Only a court of law can decide if they are libelous, until then claims of libel are simply allegations which have not been proven. RFW is a notable critic of David Touretzky. --AI 00:18, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

text: And the critics sources (xenu.com) are just as or more unreliable. Books by authors such as Jon Atack, etc. I only mention this because the much of the controversy deals with Scientology and it's critics, which David Touretzky is. But that is another discussion. --AI 08:18, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: That depends - if something is just stated on xenu.net or written by Atack, it sure is no more than an unverified statement from an interested party (though, in the case of Attack (book with lots of quotes and references given) it could mentioned, if correctly attributed to him (Scientology critic and former Scientologist Jon Attack writes in his book 'A Piece of Blue Sky' that ... - better in any case, to refer to Attacks sources. But if xenu.net provides. e.g., a facsimile of a 1951 interview of the FBI with LRH, then this is documented evidence. And when Miller quotes Winters comment on his first Dianetics session and gives the exact reference "A Doctor's Report on Dianetics, Joseph A. Winter, 1951" this is verifiable information, which can be part of an encyclopedia text (with reference given, of course - if referring to the quote, it would be Winter as reference, not Miller). --Irmgard 08:58, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  RFW-2 

message: 22:09, 21 July 2005  Anon user contributed but also used POV in modification of content regarding 'bomb making instructions.' Anon also removed  scientific director and Informatics reference to DST. I corrected some of Anon's work with a clear explantion in my edit summary. --AI 05:35, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[User:128.2.222.123]] (ammon.boltz.cs.cmu.edu) 

message: In my opinion and if I was Touretzky, I would not want to promote such an ignorant quote. But I think it should be left there, because it demonstrates the mentality of David S. Touretzky :) --AI 22:34, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quote 

message: Obviously since Dr. Touretzky is an SP and a critic of Scientology -- and therefore a criminal, per Hubbard's decree -- AI does not like it when we dare to address him by this well-earned and respectable title.  The article itself notes that he earned his doctorate, and we can also quote the same testimony that AI is referring to, in his attempt to portray Dr. Touretzky as a dangerous bomb-instruction-distributing person:
:   16            MR. ATLAS:  Defendants call Dr. David Touretzky.
Next. --141.154.215.54 01:13, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Whatever. --AI 00:28, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

text: 141.154.215.54 = pool-141-154-215-54.bos.east.verizon.net. --AI 20:27, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

text: It is a personal comment, see WP:NPA.  If you really need the "relevant quote" here it is "16            MR. ATLAS:  Defendants call Dr. David Touretzky." --AI 11:33, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dr. Touretzky 

message: Contrary to the anon troll's claim, I have no problem with Dr. Touretzky. Why was Dr. used at the last paragraphs yet use of Dr. was ommitted from all the other paragraphs? It was inconsistent, that is the only reason I removed it from the last paragraph. I now realize something as basic as this gets the suppressives all riled up about details while they ignore issues a thousand times bigger than Dr. Touretzky. And now, the anon spectators probably are thinking of defending themselves by claiming I am lying. Interesting... --AI 23:39, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: If you were removing it for consistency, that reasoning did not become clear from your edit summary, which was: "removed Dr. as it hasn't been established anywhere in this article that his is a Dr." --MarkSweep 20:34, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

text: "...gets the suppressives all riled up..."  Hmm.  the suppressives. Interesting. --Modemac 23:58, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes that's what I stated: suppressives.  What is your problem? --AI 00:13, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

text: I'd like to clarify your statement that we are "suppressives." AI, do we meet the definition of a suppressive person? --Modemac 11:12, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you the anon? If not, then why are you so concerned if I believe there are suppressive people in society who also get involved with Wikipedia.  Wikipedia is not a debate forum, talk you irrelevant argument elsewhere.  If you'd like to talk about Touretzky's Doctorate then that is the only relevance of our statements here. :)--AI 19:11, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

text: Please stop labeling people as "trolls". This is not productive. Neither is adding "Dr." in front of every occurrence of "Touretzky". --MarkSweep 00:57, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: A troll is a troll. The anon spectators want Dr. they get Dr.  Please read my edit summary before jumping on me about the Dr's.  Do not simply revert.  What have you contributed to the article?  I have contributed. --AI 01:00, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dr. 

message: : "...gets the suppressives all riled up..."  Hmm.  the suppressives. Interesting. --Modemac 23:58, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes that's what I stated: suppressives.  What is your problem? --AI 00:13, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd like to clarify your statement that we are "suppressives." AI, do we meet the definition of a suppressive person? --Modemac 11:12, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you the anon? If not, then why are you so concerned if I believe there are suppressive people in society who also get involved with Wikipedia.  Wikipedia is not a debate forum, talk you irrelevant argument elsewhere.  If you'd like to talk about Touretzky's Doctorate then that is the only relevance of our statements here. :)--AI 19:11, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

text: Please stop labeling people as "trolls". This is not productive. Neither is adding "Dr." in front of every occurrence of "Touretzky". --MarkSweep 00:57, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: A troll is a troll. The anon spectators want Dr. they get Dr.  Please read my edit summary before jumping on me about the Dr's.  Do not simply revert.  What have you contributed to the article?  I have contributed. --AI 01:00, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Suppressives" 

message: Lets stay focused on the actual content of this article which is Professor and Doctor David S. Touretzky. --AI 19:08, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Next relevant discussion 

message: I've rephrased the DeCSS section, and linked it with the article on the case, Universal v. Reimerdes.  That article does not (as of now) contain material on the various witnesses - which it certainly could.  Maybe those of us who wish to expand Wikipedia's coverage of the testimony in that case could add to it there?  JesseW 01:00, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Good job! I was looking for the correct name of the case earlier, I'm glad someone found and added it. --MarkSweep 03:36, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  DeCSS case 

message: Al, please explain further why the picture from RFW's page is a case of fair use.  As it says on Wikipedia:Fair use: "every page that uses the image will have a distinct rationale for using the image on that page".  Thanks! JesseW 16:14, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I did explain it to you on your talk page. Discussion of this issue here is a waste of time also considering the article is now displaying a different picture of Dr. David Touretzky. --AI 07:23, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

text: As I said on my talk page: "Thanks for the response. As the image has now been replaced, I think the discussion is done." So we agree on this. ;-) JesseW 16:38, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you :) --AI 21:25, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture from RFW 

message: I learned that he promotes her and she promotes suicides on a Usenet newsgroup called alt.suicide.holiday which has 14 confirmed deaths. The governments of the UK and Australia declared war against suicide promotion.
http://www.prestontoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=1789&ArticleID=909113 
 
http://www.prestontoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=1789&ArticleID=917087
 
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.education/browse_thread/thread/82ec9b2013a3ec5b/7c6ffb3b5be5885f?lnk=st&q=Dave+Touretzky%2BKarin+Spaink&rnum=1&hl=en#7c6ffb3b5be5885f 
 
 
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/browse_thread/thread/26dfe79325ffed6c/53cf3c28c79b1f81?lnk=st&q=Dave+Touretzky%2BKarin+Spaink&rnum=1&hl=en#53cf3c28c79b1f81
:Oh please.  How on earth could Touretzky have done all of the stuff you haters accuse him of? For gosh's sake, there are only 24 hours in a day! --Maru (talk) 03:40, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: 24 hours is a long time to get a lot done, especially if you only hardly sleep and only take brief meal breaks. There are 365 days in a year, so that make 8760 hours in a year to do many things including defending Touretzky with silly arguments! --AI 18:59, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Dave Touretzky and Karin Spaink connection 

message: User:204.113.91.11 is blocked for 1 week due to repeated vandalism of user talk pages.  I don't care whether 204.113.91.11 is Barbara Schwarz or not -- this user is doing nothing but vandalizing Wikipedia talk pages, so this IP adddress is blocked. --Modemac 16:29, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  204.113.91.11 blocked for 1 week 

message: AI has been banned from Wikipedia and Barbara Schwarz spends most of her edit time frothing, and they're the only ones making it "controversial". Hopefully we can now continue to build the article in a relatively sane manner - David Gerard 15:34, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Removing controversy tag

message: The article states, "He has also worked to expose what he sees as dangerous and potentially life-threatening treatments provided by Narconon..." There is no proof of this claim. It appears to be a "sound bite" for the purpose of pointing the reader to his website. Bioscribe 16:37, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You selected the wrong thing.  You need to add a  tag after the sentence or quote that you believe is unsourced.  Then if the quote cannot be sourced after a number of days we can discuss removing it or rewording it.  The NPOV tag is not appropriate and will be removed.  Vivaldi (talk) 18:48, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How's this for proof?  "Narconon's unaccredited rehab program endangers people's health with a medically indefensible treatment regimen that poses a significant risk of liver damage."  That's a direct quote from http://Stop-Narconon.org/SFUSD  --Touretzky 07:39, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, that is pretty good I would say, considering that David, err...you, own Stop-Narconon.org (see the whois info here).  I think you, being David Touretzky himself, are eminently qualified to speak on subjects that involve your own thoughts and feelings and even your own actions.  Vivaldi (talk) 08:23, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: POV reason

message: The fact that Prof. Touretzky is a Wikipedia editor has been removed.  Less than 50 edits over a period of a year. Some just correcting typos.  I conceed the point. -- 71.141.27.123 22:06, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just editing once on Wikipedia makes you an editor. --Modemac 23:34, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedian editor 

message: I have archived the old discussions, most of them were nearly a year old and most of the banter was from banned user  or blocked user .  You can review old discussions by clicking on the little link in the Archive infobox.  Do not edit old discussions, but rather start the discussions here anew if you wish to bring them up again.  Vivaldi (talk) 23:06, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archived old discussions 

message: Hello David.  Do you have a comment to make in regard to this link  link removed per WP:BLP policy Orsini 06:28, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Why would David bother dignifying the scientology cult's smear site by making any comment about it?  Joel Phillips, the alleged webmaster of that scientology smear site, is recorded on video as stating that with regards to facts and truth and the removal of lies, they have "no obligation" to be honest.   This video is available at http://www.xenutv.com/andreas/index.html  on the file name andreas1.rm, and Phillips’ admission was part of an exchange with Tory Christman from time index: 09:51.80.  Orsini 03:14, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Because Terryeo is trolling, as usual. Since Terryeo is already banned from editing Scientology-related articles, I can think of no valid reason, related to the editing of articles, that Terryeo would need to bring this up on Touretzky's and ChrisO's talk pages. wikipediatrix 04:06, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

text:  I'm curious.  Touretzky's sites are frequently cited in Scientology articles. Yet this link link removed per WP:BLP policy Orsini 06:28, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  You are not curious; you are making comments to intentionally provoke people.  The smear tool of the scientology cult is completely without merit, and I do not believe that site is taken seriously or understood to be credible by any sane person.  Its "webmaster" Joel Phillips has been recorded on video stating he has don't have the obligation to correct any of the lies and smears he publishes on it, so Phillips' smear site appears to me to be "the source of spreading terrorism, bigotry [and] other passe' attitudes" you are whining about here.  David Touretzky is on public record stating the scientology cult attempts to defame and smear its critics with innuendo and false information, and Phillips' site is clear evidence of this.  Terryeo, explain why an allegedly religious organization needs a hate site to defame the critics exposing the cult's abuse.  Failure to do so will be considered trolling with your "request for a comment".  Also show exactly where David Touretzky  has made "his postings about bomb-making" using reliable sources meeting Wikipedia standards.  Failure to do so will be considered libel.  Orsini 06:13, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

text: And you think that quotes from claimed IRC logs are any kind of source at all? For your information, that makes Usenet articles seem like rock-solid proof in comparison. Your trolling is getting worse and worse. AndroidCat 15:57, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Terryeo is clearly committed to trolling and to engaging in personal smears about the character of Wikipedia editors, such as this one.  Isn't this yet another violation of his parole?  Are we condemned to put up with his abuses forever?  BTfromLA 16:20, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I've already made some requests for admins to consider a permanent block on Terryeo based on this "spreading terrorism and  bigotry" comment. wikipediatrix 16:22, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Fully justified.  I was just looking at that "religiousfreedomwatch" site, which has become more extensive than I remember it.  Not only is Dave Touretzky linked to bigotry, terrorism, misuse of government funds, putting babies in cages, etc., but Chris Owen is there, too, depicted as an admirer of Osama bin Laden. BTfromLA 16:41, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: BTfromLA: such ridiculous claims are not unexpected from the web sites of the lunatic fringe element often found on the internet these days. Orsini 06:13, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

text:  Good point, BT, and exactly why I was asking for a comment.  You notice I am not attempting to validate any claim, but am asking for a comment.  I created, you see, a question.  When asked, I went the next step and responded, telling why I asked a question.  Good point. The things BT mention are the things I wonder about. Terryeo 17:09, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh Terryeo, that's so transparent. For example: What is your opinion on the rumour that you sledgehammer grandmothers from behind for their grocery money? Personally, I doubt it, but I'm just asking for comment. It quacks like a duck, please stop trying to dress it up. AndroidCat 17:56, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request for a comment 

message: Substituted at 14:38, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: *
:Source to incorporate into the article. If no one else gets to it I'll add it later.  Cirt (talk) 18:38, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pilots find satisfaction in donating their time 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 6 external links on David S. Touretzky. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120402203851/http://awards.acm.org/homepage.cfm?awd=157 to http://awards.acm.org/homepage.cfm?awd=157
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050216085128/http://www.wpxi.com/target11/2176679/detail.html to http://www.wpxi.com/target11/2176679/detail.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050416050956/http://forbiddenspeech.org/ReclaimGuide/reclaim.shtml to http://forbiddenspeech.org/ReclaimGuide/reclaim.shtml
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090206200152/http://defamer.com/397516/l-ron-hubbard-middle-school-not-an-indoctrination-center-says-scientologist-founder-will-smith to http://defamer.com/397516/l-ron-hubbard-middle-school-not-an-indoctrination-center-says-scientologist-founder-will-smith
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thread_title:  External links modified