Talk:Francis G. Newlands

message: The introductory paragraph to this Wikipedia entry is biased towards a narrow view of the life of FGN.  His accomplishments as a Senator, particularly in relation to the state of Hawaii and to the economic growth in the arid western states afforded by federally funded irrigation projects should not be ignored.  The Reclamation Bureau was formed as a result of the Newlands Reclamation Act of 1902, which provides watershed management at a federal level. He was one of Congress' conservationists, working side-by-side with President Theodore Roosevelt to protect natural resources and to improve upon the city of Washington.  FGN was the primary proponent in Congress of the McMillan Plan to implement L'Enfant's original architectural design for the city of Washington, DC after McMillan's death in 1902Holloran, Peter C., Cocks, Catherine, Lessoff, Alan. The A to Z of the Progressive Era. 2009. p. 309. Google eBook https://books.google.com/books?id=Rt3243E-Wm0C&dq=francis+g.+newlands+mcmillan+plan&source=gbs_navlinks_s, .  He also significantly transformed the northwestern area of Washington, DC into Maryland: developing a suburb of DC (Chevy Chase) and making transportation possible from the heart of the city six miles out to the community by laying the foundation of what is today Connecticut Avenue for a trolley line.  An overemphasis on his racial views and a lack of emphasis on the positive impact his accomplishments, as a Senator and a land developer, had on great swaths of land and people biases most of the wikipedia page.Atwood, Albert W. Francis G. Newlands: A Builder of the Nation. 1969.   — Preceding unsigned comment added by SJPVJ (talk • contribs) 07:14, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I've edited the article to remove the incorrect statement about a presidential campaign, citing the CCHS letter you link to. You're more than welcome to continue to edit the intro and article as you see fit, adding (properly sourced) information. In the meantime, I'm going to remove the "biased" tag. PRRfan (talk) 02:42, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I see you've readded the "biased" tag without explanation, despite my recent changes. Care to explain your concerns, or -- better yet -- edit the intro the way you believe it should look? PRRfan (talk) 17:02, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Removed "biased" tag readded without explanation. PRRfan (talk) 00:29, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Should we have a separate section to discuss Newlands' racist views and actions and their legacies? Ayomiw suggests we should. So far, the section includes bits about his writings and advocacy as a Senator, the racist covenants in his developments, and the fountain. These bits are quite short (two to three sentences) and each partially duplicates material already present in Career/ Land developer /U.S. Senator. Because the separate section currently functions as a bin for various facts rather than a discussion of them, I'd argue that we should consolidate these facts (like so) into the existing sections. Then delete the Racial Views section, which will have become completely (rather than partially) redundant. I also think we should note the covenants briefly in the intro. In the future, if we should add so much more about the topic that it can't be accommodated in existing sections, or if we build out a discussion of these facts, a separate section would become a worthy addition. Thoughts? PRRfan (talk) 16:13, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds like Newlands remains a controversial figure, and I think we should strategize before an edit war gets going. I can't respond right now, but would you mind holding until we can discuss? I think the racial views section is important enough to keep separate, because that's why people are talking about him now. I think we should look at articles of some contemporary individuals whose racial views have recently come into discussion, e.g. Woodrow Wilson. Also he did not employ racial covenants - it's more complex than that, as the original contribs by Ayomiw suggested. --Stakhanov (talk) 19:21, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Stakhanov, Ayomiw, I'm happy to hold off for more discussion. A few points: first, I don't think Newlands is particularly controversial; he was an avowed and acknowledged racist; second, I'm glad Ayomiw has restored the information; if I'd noticed it had been deleted, I'd have restored it myself. The discussion here is on the best way to organize the information in this article. Given the amount of detail at present — a rather small amount — I think it makes more sense to present it as part of his biography: as a U.S. senator, he took various actions and pushed various provisions, including horribly racist ones. As a land developer, he undertook various projects, and sought in devious and repugnant ways to enforce segregation. People named a fountain after him; now some people are trying to revoke the honor of a memorial and replace it with materials that more fully describe his life and its effects. To repeat myself, I'm not against a separate section on Newlands' racist views and actions if a good deal more information is added — but in an article that is this short and which contains relatively little information, a separate section is almost inescapably going to go over material already presented. PRRfan (talk) 02:18, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: PRRfan, thank you for hitting pause. I am sorry, I did not mean in any way to suggest you were defending the man. Thank you for restoring the material. I see your point about redundancy with the limited material present in the article. I have been looking around and it sounds like there have been a few more books that cover his career. I am happy to take on a project of fleshing the career and views out. May take a while, but I think it will be worth it. --Stakhanov (talk) 01:05, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks; that sounds like a good plan. A few resources include a recent video lecture by a U of Nevada history prof and his book: Reclaiming the Arid West: The Career of Francis G. Newlands (Indiana University Press, 1996). PRRfan (talk) 01:53, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  OK, so the Rowley book and a bunch more have arrived at my house. After some uh light reading, I will begin adding it in. I think given the scale of rewriting, I was going to draft this in my userspace, say User:Stakhanov/Newlands. Let me know if that works for you.Stakhanov (talk) 02:50, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds great, and thanks for taking on this work. PRRfan (talk) 17:15, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Newlands' racism: separate section?