Talk:Order of the Eastern Star

message: The Order of the Eastern Star and Eastern Star topics should be combined.
:Done. --Gary D 04:40, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

message: What about adding some history into this article.. Like when this organization developed, how, why and by who.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.232.1.50 (talk) 03:44, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Excellent point, 74 -- I didn't realize that I had only put this info in the Morris/Macoy articles.--SarekOfVulcan 12:10, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: History

message: A common misconception is that the star is pointed down.  It isn't.  The star is a horizontal figure. It denotes the layout of the Chapter Room, in which the white ray is pointed to the West. Of course, when placed on a written page, we imply a vertical orientation.  
The star is also said to be representative of the movements of Venus across the sky when it changes from the evening to the morning star and back again.  In fact, according to www.symbols.com, the word "Eastern Star" is a reference to Venus in it's morning star phase.  Therefore, in addition to its Christian connotations, "Eastern Star" alludes to a symbolism more recognizeable to ancient peoples.
Something in the OES Symbol that has always passed without comment by non-members is the word inscribed in the inner area.  As a member, I can't divulge its meaning, which is rather trite anyway.  However, among members, it is called a "cabalistic" word.  Really, that just means an anagram for the trite phrase I can't repeat.  However, one day, I decided to take "cabalistic" literally and wondered what would happen if I used the cabalistic system of gematria to assign a numeric value and find out which Hebrew words corresponded.  Since Hebrew has no actual "F", it had a value of zero and the whole word came to a value of 41.  There are about twelve words in Hebrew which have that numeric value.  However, one of them is the Hebrew word for "fecundity", which is a synonym for fertility.  Now Venus was the goddess of love and fertility....maybe I'm going too far with this.  Interesting nonetheless.  You can go to http://www.mysticalinternet.com/gematria/lookup.php?system=hebrew&word, where they have a Gematria calculator and see if you get the same result.  
I only added this particular note because of the numerous sites publishing defamatory remarks about the Order being unfit for Christians.  In all of OES ritual, there is very little that would support their contentions.  Of course, if one is inclined toward a fundamentalist type of Christian faith, by all means, the Order is not for them.  They are not going to be tolerant of anything not supporting their narrow views, including other forms of Christianity or social organizations like OES, which have a spiritual aspect, but are not specifically Christian enough for them.  
So here, I have given the one part of OES symbolism which I, as a member, find even slightly deviates from it's Judeo-Christian heritage.  And even I can't make it that compelling.
By the way, none of my comments here are endorsed by the Order of the Eastern Star.Guy of Auvergne 03:22, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments on symbolism

message: I would like to see specific information on the roles of the heroines (I mean the roles--not the actual biblical women). Are they there to sit there and look pretty and then show up to do the Carnation Ritual at a member's funeral, or do they serve some other purpose?
Thanks.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.229.225.8 (talk • contribs) 
Each Star point has a lecture during Initiation in which they teach the lesson that can be drawn from the Biblical story. I don't know that that's terribly encyclopedic, though...--SarekOfVulcan 16:42, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Heroines 

message: I've decided to remove the section because quite frankly I think that there is a difference between noting a genuine controversy  surrounding a subject in an article and adding information to an article simply because someone somewhere happens to believe that it's true. My understanding of Wikipedia policy, is that the encyclopedia is not intended to represent each and every possible perspective or opinion on any given subject, no matter how outlandish or unsupported it may be, but rather should consist of information that is drawn from recognised and accepted secondary sources of mainstream information. It is my opinion that citing Jack Chick publications does not represent such a source. Jack Chick also espouses the belief that the United Nations and the Roman Catholic Church are also both "satanic" organizations, however I have a difficult time believing that editors of the Wikipedia article pertaining to either one of those subjects, would willingly accept as valid a section pointing out that fact backed up by a quote from one of Mr. Chick's publications. Deconstructhis 23:35, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia is not nessecarily endorsing his viewpoint, just not censoring it either. Jack Chick is by no means alone in his belief, and there is no good reason why this shouldn't be noted. --RucasHost 10:04, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The good reason this shouldn't be noted/included is the that the so-called controversy content is based on unauthoritative, non-credible, and "extremist" sources (see WP:RS#Extremist sources). Therefore, removing it has nothing to do with censoring.BC 16:55, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Removal of "Jack Chick" Alleged Controversy Section

message: I just called Mizpah Grand Chapter of Alabama, and the lady who answered the phone didn't have the records available to determine whether Parks was a member of Alonzo Mitchell Chapter 636. So, this is still up in the air: I haven't yet seen a source that didn't link back to the Meridian Chapter claim. --uɐɔlnʌɟoʞǝɹɐs 19:06, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rosa Parks 

message: In some chapters, the Sentinel is an elected position always held by a man, and he advances to the position of Associate Patron the following term.  This is also true of the Right Worthy Grand Sentinel in General Grand Chapter, as well as the Grand Sentinel in most Grand Chapters.  This is a minor detail, but I thought it might be worth adding.  However, I can't figure out how to add it without being totally disruptive.
Also, it might be worth mentioning that the Associate Patron didn't exist as an office until 1932 (or thereabouts).  Therefore, the Associate Patrons participation in the various rituals is optional in most jurisdictions.  But that is extremely minor and might not be worth mentioning.
Cpk1971 (talk) 08:20, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: For the first addition, we'd need a reliable source citing it: there's already enough uncited material in that section. :-( For the second, I definitely want to see cites -- that's a lot more encyclopedic than the first one, imho.--uɐɔlnʌɟoʞǝɹɐs 17:51, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  The role of the Sentinel in succession, and more info about the Associate Patron 

message: The article, as written, mostly focuses around GGC OES. PHA and NY would presumably object to that, so anybody have any suggestions on how to make it more-inclusive?--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:51, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Different jurisdictions 

message: Why is there no mention of the Eureka Masonic College in Mississippi? Bravo601 (talk) 14:24, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: No particular reason, as far as I know. It's treated in more detail at the Rob Morris article.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 14:25, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

text: Shouldn't be a problem, generally speaking. :-) --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 14:32, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mississippi and the Little Red School House 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Though "the meaning of the letters FATAL surrounding the center pentagon in the emblem is only revealed to members of the Order, <I>but has been readily available on the internet for some time</I>;" then why isn't it included here? 2600:8800:395:B000:1546:F99E:962:2C39 (talk) 19:13, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I have added and sourced the meaning, Svedishf1shy (talk) 17:20, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, why isn't that information included in the article? I'll save you the bother: Fairest Among Thousands Altogether Lovely. Nuttyskin (talk) 16:39, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I had added it, then it was removed because the source I had provided did not directly mention the emblem, only the statement. If you can find a better source feel free to contribute to the article. Otherwise, I'd suggest you look at the article history before making an accusatory comment. Svedishf1shy (talk) 12:37, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  FATAL ?