Talk:Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty/Archive 1

message: The post above is correct, someone make it a plot synopsis not a plot detail. We want an article not the great american novel.   — Ilγαηερ (Tαlκ) 14:24, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please 

message: I was was wondering if we could add a quotes section to the page.
Thanks
: I've put a link to wikiquote on here, the quotes can go in that Sockatume 22:27, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quotes? 

message: http://junkerhq.net/MGS2/index.html
I think this is a long and detailed explanation of the ending of the game and I think deserves to be added to the link section, even quoted to the main article...
:It's already there in the "Fan Reaction" section. Sockatume, Talk 17:43, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link to ending analysis 

message: He is aided by his girlfriend Rosemary as data manager (the couple's names, Jack and Rose, refer to the protagonists of the film Titanic, just as Hal and Dave appeared in the first MGS title), Colonel Roy Campbell as mission command, and a number of other on-site specialists, including SEAL Team 10 Lt. JG Iroquois Pliskin (instantly recognizable as Solid Snake in mufti, and another name reminsicent of a film character, this time Kurt Russell's Snake Plissken from the Escape from L.A. and Escape from New York movies).
I've edited that section, but I'm not really happy with it. If someone could condense it (perhaps moving all the film links to after the list of names, or even to a different section, article or removing them entirely) it could read much less awkwardly. --Nick R 01:19, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Film references in names 

message: I thought the bridge in the first chapter was the Verrazano Narrows Bridge? or is that where he is picked up off the ship?
:The jump bridge was the George Washington.  Verrazano was supposed to be the extraction point.  TotalTommyTerror 20:31, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bridge  

message: I'm deleting the part where it says that the president's secret service security were cut from the game. After you meet the president (I think or somewhere around that time) there will be gaurds in alert mode that are fully flanked in heavy armor that don't have a russian accent. If these gaurd pertain to something else-- my fault. (Name? I have no name. 23:01, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Not that they're biometric, but in the begining of the Plant, Raiden is told he can't use the emeny weapons because they use a PIN system.Shamess 16:36, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deleting certain parts 

message: I dont know if this is appropriate, but Julia Roberts supposed favorite game (according to PBS, which is pretty respected) is MGS2
http://www.pbs.org/kcts/videogamerevolution/arcade/celebrity/celebrity.html
Question#1
:If you take (or just submit) that quiz, it actually says Halo is the right answer.  And no, this isn't really appropriate. - DoubleCross 13:41, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pretty Woman 

message: The following phrase
The reason Liquid Snake is able to manifest in Ocelot's body is revealed in Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater. Ocelot's father, The Sorrow, was a spirit medium and he passed this ability down to his son.
should not be listed here. The reason Liquid Snake is able to manifest himself in Ocelot's body is not confirmed. There are a number of ways he could have done this, one of the more prominent reasons being that his own will to live is keeping him alive.
Again, I'd like to reitarate that no where was it stated in the game or outside of the game (except by speculating fans) that this ability was passed down to Ocelot. (anonymous)
We can add the TRUE reason for Liquid's manifestations when it is revealed in MGS4. Kojima stated that, among other things, "The truth about Ocelot's arm" will be revealed. Until then, keep it to the fansite forums. Village Baka 08:05, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deleting an unconfirmed part 

message: Sorry to interrupt, but a friend of mine told me about a Metal Gear game where the game wigged out, goes into Nintendo mode, and tells you to reset the game in order to screw you over.  Is this the game?  He also mentioned something about naked cartwheels.
Yeah this is the one (The Bread 07:29, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  OTHER 

message: If you read the Trivia section, you'll find a bullet that says how Raiden is similar to Godzilla and Snake is similar to King Kong. Is there any point to that and is there any article or something that says the writers or producers intended it to be a comparison to Raiden or Snake? If someone can provide a valid source, I'll put it back in but I'm deleting it for now. --Tuspm 19:53, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, this is stated by Kojima in the "Making of the Hollywood Game" documentary on the bonus DVD that came with the PAL versions of Metal Gear Solid 2. - DoubleCross 16:30, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Raiden, Snake, King Kong and Godzilla 

message: Can we merge Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance into this article?  Metal Gear Solid: Integral is dealt with with on the main Metal Gear Solid page.  It's not a whole new game.  We could just add a section with a separate infobox and information about what was added. Ace of Sevens 05:43, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge Proposal

message: "Fission Mailed" (that moronic internet variation on "Mission Failed") just redirects to the MGS2 page.  Weird.
Kestrel 23:58, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's because it's a reference to a fake "Game Over" scene from MGS2. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 03:31, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fission Mailed 

message: Who decides that the importance is low? I think it is atleast mid. ILovePlankton 02:05, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: <nowiki>{{cvgproj|class=start|importance=Low}}</nowiki>

message: Worth noting, and I have edited the page as such, that the original European release of MGS2 and the European Substance release of MGS2 contained very different bonus discs. The original was one of two Making Of DVDs that FunTV of France made for Konami Europe- the other was a similar disc for Silent Hill 2's original UK release. The Substance DVD is the common-or-garden The Document Of MGS2 disc as released seperately in the US and Japan.
Hyperspacey 21:55, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Document of MGS2 /= The Making Of MGS2 

message: Isn't it a bit, well, lengthy? The excised stuff and trivia, aye, keep that, but the entire plot of the game? Wouldn't a brief summary of the rough plot do, a wee two-paragraph thing?
Oh, nevermind, the "synopsis" for The Godfather movie is longer than the ruddy film. We aren't that bad. Question- are all Wikipedia entries for things with plots meant to regugitate the entire plot? Isn't it pointless for anyone except the people writing the so-called summary?
Hyperspacey 03:39, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think this synopsis is shorter, more to the point, and tells you all you relaly need to know. Hyperspacey 06:13, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plot Synopsis 

message: It seems like an odd move. I thought I would bring it up here before making any sort of edit, due to it possibly being intended. If not, this needs to be remedied immediately, and I will do so myself if no one else is up for it. JimmyBlackwing 05:23, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, there most definitely should be a gameplay section. -- Steel 11:26, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have bodged something together. Pray, good fellows, bodge it some more. Hyperspacey 03:32, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  No gameplay section...? 

message: I still don't agree with the merge, but I guess there's nothing I can do to stop it now. Anyway, I think it would be useful to bring back that subsection we had before, with a list of differences in the games. Because the games are different in quite a few places. Like different cutscenes and spelling corrections that were made etc. --ChaosSorcerer91 18:51, August 20 2006 (GMT)
:That's cool, I'd love to see this list. I think it should be added too. Shamess 16:29, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Substance 

message: I can't confirm this for every difficulty level, but in the Tanker level on Easy, in the last hallway (before the hold with the marines), there is a Gurlukovich soldier listening to music. You can see him dancing down the hallway and hear the music (though muted) when you get near him. When you take his dog tag, it reads Gackt. Is this a noteworthy reference?206.53.68.186 23:54, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Gackt

message: In the intro it's been said that "Chronologically, the game is followed by Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots.". I disagree that this is fact.
Mostly because very little is know about MGS4 yet - it could be set in an alternate reality purely a VR mission for all we know. Secondly, after MGS4, MGS5 could come out and be in the middle of both MGS2 and MGS4, so it wouldn't be chronologically following. These are unlikely but whilst we know almost nothing (to be fair, we only have the trailer for evidence and last time the trailer for MGS2 was quite random) about MGS4 and so I propose this line be taken out. Shamess 16:28, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not entirely correct... 

message: Since triva is too long I think we should remove the paragraph starting... "The ability to throw grenades round corners and centre the screen via" Since, it needs to be cited, so it may not even be true and it's also one of the largest paragraphs in the section. And if it matters, it was the only paragraph I really didn't feel like reading because it looked boring. Shamess 16:46, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's true, but short of asking Konami to undelete the BBSes it's unsourceable. It's also AFAIK one of the few examples of a non-PC game being substantially modified based on user input. But anyway, no way to source it. TBH, the whole section should go, some of it is either workable into the article, self-evident, obvious, or not especially interesting. Hyperspacey 02:41, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Triva 

message: "S3 Plan" redirects here, but it is not explained what this term stands for in the article text. Either the redirect should be deleted or this article should be amended. —msikma <user_talk:msikma> 21:34, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What a terrible redirect. -- Steel 21:38, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

text: S3 originally stood for Solid Snake Simulation, meaning that the big shell project was a way to show that any soldier, if placed in the right situation, could be exactly like Solid Snake, as revealed by Revolver Ocelot. However, later on, "Colonel Cambell" reveals that it actually stands for Selection for Societal Sanity, and that everyone he had been talking to over his Codec was computer AI, and the point of it all was to see if the public could rally behind a hero like Snake with the hero on the leash of the AI generated Patriots. The AI is coming from GW, the supercomputer that is the centerpiece of the Arsenal Gear under the Big Shell that Raiden's missio took place on. Ocelot4 16:39, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  S3 plan 

message: 1. The Eyes Have It. Penny Arcade (2000). Retrieved on 28 August 2006.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2000/05/12
^^^
Sure, it's related to the Sons of Liberty trailer, but I fail to see how this is a reliable source that contributes anything to this article. I have taken the liberty to remove it.
75.4.212.202 03:34, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference?! 

message: Is there anyway we could work that section into a Development piece? At present it's pretty much a semi-unsourced list of trivia, which doesn't make for a good read. Hyperspacey 10:00, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Excised Plot Details 

message: someone can put the System requirements for the PC version on Substance?--ometzit<col> 21:33, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not really an encyclopedic topic. A quick google reveals requirements here. Sockatume 21:01, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

text: no but it must be added in the infobox--ometzit<col> 21:33, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I keep forgetting about those, sorry. Sockatume 21:47, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  System requirements 

message: I think that it would be really good for the article if we included a development section like on the MGS3 page, we could use 1up.com's cover story for MGS2 as a source. Metal gear ninty 12:05, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request for a development section 

message: I recently completed Metal Gear Solid 2 and tried to find an analysis on its interesting issues about perception of reality, but didn't see it in the Plout Outline. Even though it was mentioned in "Fan Reaction", wouldn't the perception of reality by Jack and what surrounds him be an integral part of the storyline? The last 2 hours primarily revolve around that and Snake gives a whole lecture on it. Zero_ April 16th-ish.
Read the link at the bottom page the "gene and meme" one, this will cover what you are looking for. Metal gear ninty 11:40, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Perception of Reality 

message: Compared to Metal Gear Solid, Metal Gear Solid 3, and Metal Gear Solid 4 this article's a bit thin on references and could do with some tightening up. I know there's a posse of MGS editors on here, so could we see about bringing this thing up to the same standard as the others? Sockatume 14:57, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Needs some work? 

message: Who do you think would be a better President?  Although Solidus was "evil," I think he'd be a bit more competent. --68.195.140.189 21:14, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just commenting to say that you shouldn't use these pages for discussion of the game; only talk about the article. Have a nice day ^^; Shamess 09:28, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The 43rd President: George Sears (Solidus) vs. George W. Bush 

message: I think the Response section should include some of the factors the game was marked down on. Namely its storyline and change of protagonist. SuperSonicTH 02:16, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Your best bet is to find two or three reliable sources to cite per point you wish to make. See for example the Reaction section on The Matrix. Metacritic is a good start, although its scoring reflects near-universal praise for the game. Sockatume 20:29, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Well I have a problem here - the criticism I read that the plot and endless cut scenes were detrimental to the game were broadcast on GameCentral' a UK teletext service, written by games journalists. I could source them, but there is no archive (teletext refresh their pages everyday and the old pages disappear) - therefore no-one could see the ref for themselves. Magic Pickle 23:11, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A verifiable source would be needed, I'm afraid. But it's a big Internet and there must be somewhere to source the info.Hyperspacey 16:29, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

text: How about response on how the PC version doesn't support Radeon video cards (Don't talk to me about the patch -- not even the patch will fix it for me, on both a 9600XT and 9800XT, unless I'm running Windows Server 2003), and the almost unplayable default key config... with an unintuitive interface for changing the keys.  Overall, the PC port was completely half-assed and horrible. Ahanix1989 02:01, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

text: I've successfully patched my MGS2:S copy and I'm running a Radeon x1300, I don't know what you did wrong. SuperSonicTH
Indeed a paragraph detailing the response on the PC platform should be added, the game got pretty poor scores (usually 50-60%) range in the UK gaming magazines , this is a nice counter weight to the overly hyped console reviews for the game.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.199.31.36 (talk) 21:28, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Critical Response...