Talk:Peg Entwistle

message: The "official" Hollywood Sign history notes that the day after her death a letter arrived hiring her for a stage production.  http://www.hollywoodsign.org/history-6.html   Don't know any of the details, including who would have been her co-stars and whether that play was a success.  The IMDB biographical notes mention that her suicide came only two days after the release of her only movie, Thirteen Women, (the Wiki article says it was before the film's release) -- too short a time for her to have read the out-of-town reviews. Same notes mention that (1) she had been drinking heavily before she committed suicide and/or (2) the autopsy did not find evidence of alcohol. Sussmanbern (talk) 12:41, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Most of that seems to be mistaken. Gwen Gale (talk) 11:31, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ironies 

message: I wonder if we can somehow note that while the September 18 date is listed as "Date of Death" on the certificate, and also states "Date of Injury" as the 16th, her autopsy report states "Date of Suicide" as the 16th? After all, that is the actual date she died!
I know it's confusing--maybe just let it be, eh?
Jameszerukjr (talk) 09:10, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I have added an explanation in a footnote about the date of death issue. Others can improve it, if necessary, but I think the (possible) confusion should be dealt with explicitly in the article. - dcljr (talk) 04:05, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Date of Death

message: I've restored the last two sections of discussion (made since May 26th), since I feel that archiving talk from the previous couple of weeks on a relatively low-traffic talk page such as this one is not a good idea — especially in this case, since the issues raised above haven't been reflected in any changes to the article itself. - dcljr (talk) 03:52, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That's all fine, but perhaps you could elaborate on what article changes you see that are needed from the above conversation? If the date of death on the death certificate says the 18th, then that is the official date. There seems to have been no further discussion forthcoming. Wildhartlivie (talk) 04:03, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  See comment in previous section, which I was leaving as you were leaving your comment. <g> - dcljr (talk) 04:07, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

text:  As I stated earlier regarding the discussion of her death date, the Autopsy Report, which was filed before the death certificate, records the Date of Suicide as September 16. The coroner clearly knew that she died on Friday. "The Date of Death" on the Death Certificate is  how the department declared the death as official. I have the Autopsy Report and did several interviews with LAPD archivists--actual members of the department. It's amazing how much this article has endured since I corrected the myths and lies that had been up originally! Take a look at the history of the article. I get the feeling that people like the idea of a desperate, alcoholic, stardom-starved flapper who posed nude and took a swan dive as opposed to THE TRUTH. Frankly, I found most Wiki Editors not helpful and in fact spiteful of my efforts. Leave the Date of Death as you all wish. I'm telling you what happened. I have the autopsy--I did the interviews. It's a matter of record. Official date of suicide is September 16, 1932. Official Date declared dead is September 18, 1932. THIS IS HOW THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT AND THE COUNTY CORONER DID THE REPORTS IN 1932. Jameszerukjr (talk) 22:57, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I must say, I find your generalization of Wiki editors to be a bit offensive. Some people bent over backwards to help you on this article, even to the point of interceding when anonymous editors, who followed you here from another website, vandalized the page and left some of your personal information on the page. In fact, aside from a misunderstanding with another editor or two along the way, that was the biggest issue the article has had since you made your contributions. The foremost issues were to get the references and tone to that approved by Wikipedia policy, and it's unfair and inaccurate to characterize the efforts of others as not helpful and spiteful. I don't honestly know where you get the idea that the other people who have worked on this article in the past few months preferred Entwistle as "a desperate, alcoholic, stardom-starved flapper who posed nude and took a swan dive." That isn't what is reflected in the changes to the article, and I have gone back through all of them since the beginning of February. Yes, there has been a small amount of dispute, but there is nothing that has been as major as you contend. I mispoke regarding the two days, but I didn't go off on a tangent about things when you corrected me, and in fact, the date of death on the article has not been changed at any time since you first made your contributions on February 3, 2008. The question that was addressed this past week was clarifying what the official date of death was vs. the date of suicide. That's all. I'm completely sorry you feel this way, but please, don't discount and write off everyone who actually has tried to help. Wildhartlivie (talk) 02:27, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Restored last two sections of discussion 

message: I deleted the edits by User MovieFan because most of them were inaccurate in light of the latest research. For example: Peg Entwsitle was never in "bit parts" or a "handful of films." Extensive research for her biography, which included weeks of reviewing original RKO office memos, contracts, and payroll records concerning Entwistle, support her having a role in just one film.
Moreover, the claim regarding Entwistle's Los Angeles play "The Mad Hopes" in the newspaper item sourced by MovieFan is completely spurious. Contrary to this source, the play, a pre-Broadway tryout, was a rousing success in San Diego and Los Angeles during its several-weeks' run. My research discovered many reviews and theatrical periodicals containg nothing but praise for the play and players. The MovieFan source contained, "but nothing came of it," in regard to a context insinuating that Peg hadn't got the part. In fact, the premiere of this play at the Belasco was a Red Carpet event on the scale of a Hollywood film premiere!
The contribs by MovieFan with regard the divorce of Entwistle and Robert Keith are only partly accurate, taken from news accounts whereas the official and complete court testimony by Peg Entwistle--which I have in my posession--does not entirely reflect MovieFan's edit. The "hair pulling" account is in fact reflected in the official court document, but does this information actually improve the Wiki?
There is more I can discuss, however, I wish to make it clear that I do not want to discourage MovieFan, or anyone else, from contributing to Peg Entwistle's Wiki. God knows the wars that have been waged in the past regarding it! But I simply found it easier to Undo the MovieFan contribs in their entirety in the hopes that MovieFan, or anyone else, would discuss the content.
Honestly, while I'm very pleased that Peg Entwistle has so many fans, I think her Wiki should be left as is. Using the old sources, such as tabloids and newspapers is a tricky affair with many red herrings. It's best, I believe, to leave the Entwistle page alone.
Jameszerukjr (talk) 19:12, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Most of MovieFan's edits look like copyright violations, taken from http://lamorguefiles.blogspot.com/ which moreover is not a reliable source. Since this tale has clearly been sensationalized through the years and still is, most online sources are bound to (and do) carry lots of mistakes.  I've looked into this, watched Thirteen Women on YouTube today, cleaned up the article and left in what seems to be verifiable content. By the way, I've found not a hint of verification Entwistle appeared in any movie before Thirteen Women, credited or not. As to The Mad Hopes, a month after it closed she was on a shoot with Radio Pictures, so something seems to have indeed come of that. Gwen Gale (talk) 11:52, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: MovieFan Contribs

message: Having gone through the sources, which are mostly not too reliable, I'm highly wary of the "wound up on the cutting room floor, threw herself off the Hollywood sign" slant to all this. The original length is documented at 73 minutes, a standard length back then. Movies released after the widely publicized death of one of the actors seldom do healthy business at the box office. The film was re-released in 1935 and by then it does seem to have been cut down to 59 minutes. The missing 14 minutes may or may not have carried more of Entwistle (at least some likely did, only going by how utterly abruptly she leaves the narrative in the version I watched). The scenes may have been cut in 1932, or 1933, or for the 1935 release, perhaps taking out most of those scenes featuring an actress whose life ended in a notorious suicide. When the cuts were made and why, along with what was in them, needs more reliable sourcing than what I've seen so far. The strongest source I've read is a 2010 article in the New York Daily news and it reads like a sloppy rehash of the old tabloid articles. For now I've taken out the text which says the film was edited down before release, cutting out a lot of her screen time, since verification of this seems dodgy behind all the layers of tabloid coverage after 78 years. Gwen Gale (talk) 12:56, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Cut length of ''Thirteen Women''

message: Jus Soli does not apply to Wales. She wasn't of Welsh Ancestry, she left Wales at a very young age, the fact she was born in Wales is covered in he Infobox. SHE WAS NOT BORN A "WELSH" Person! Same crap As Christian Bale. --Τασουλα (Shalom!) (talk) 04:10, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Welsh born. 

message: The edits made on June 9 by 173.196.204.18 appear to include original research and certainly need improved sourcing. Shsilver (talk) 20:30, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Original research?