Talk:Evelyn Nesbit

message: The first paragraph under John Barrymore refers to the play Nesbit was in as "The White Rose".  Every other reference mentions "The Wild Rose".  Is this a mistake or were there two plays?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pjasente (talk • contribs) 16:41, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: The White Rose?

message: I have a suspicion that my grandmother is the daughter of John Barrymore and Evelyn Nesbit.  The timing, facts of my grandmother's birth and adoption in July, 1904, and her step-mother's deep commitment to secrecy and interest in Evelyn Nesbit make it a possibility that one of her "appendectomies" (aborting John Barrymore's acknowledged fetuses) actually was born and given into adoption.  My grandmother grew up near Pittsburgh around Connellsville, PA.  Her step-mother would not tell her who her real mother was, only to mention that some day all would be OK since she was the daughter of very important people that could not admit she was alive.  Her mother, a midwife, died before she could tell her the secret.
My grandmother has a very interesting tale to tell if anyone is interested.  She lives alone in a small town in Southwest Georgia and is 101 and very healthy.  You can contact me via timb707@yahoo.com.  This isn’t about money; this is about a wonderful woman maybe finding out who her parents were.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.100.30.240 (talk) 01:08, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe your grandmother could well have been Evelyn Nesbit's daughter.Remember back then most abortions were fatal for the mother. Most women opted to give birth and just place the child up for adoption.Did you ever see photos of your grandmother when she was young?I hope you're right.I have always been fascinated with Evelyn.My aunt Edna, who was born several years after Evelyn looked just like her.jeanne (talk) 15:05, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Jack & Evelyn's relationship occurred from 1901-1903 at the latest. Since you have posted this in 2005 and you say your grandma is/was ?? 101 at that time then she would've been born in 1904 after their relationship was over. Unless Jack got Evelyn pregnant towards the end of 1903 and your grandmother was born sometime in the middle of 1904 that would be very possible. Where else have you heard this info of Evelyn possibly giving birth to one of the Jack pregnancies? I find it very interesting. Paula Uruburu states Evelyn had undergone at least three abortions, two from Jack and a third one probably from the Polo player right after Jack. While I've known about the Jack pregnancies the third one is new to me. As you know abortions at that time were illegal and dangerous. Razorblades & knives were used to cut the woman's womb open, remove the fetus, and sew the womb back shut. If Evelyn had undergone so many abortions her womb would've been so spliced & dissected I doubt she would've been able to carry future children to term. As we see she gave birth to a son, Russell, in 1910 apparently without any problems. So it is very credible that Evelyn possibly delivered one of Barrymore's children and the child adopted out without too much of a paper trail.  The third pregnancy by author Paula Uruburu I doubt since she is speculating on her own and this comes from no other source AFAIK. Cecil B DeMille who was at his mother's boarding school seems to have witnessed events and talks about 'appendectomies' but not an actual birth which could mean that young Cecil who was newly married himself was not there the whole nine months of Evelyn's pregancy/ies. Also could Evelyn & Jack have expressed guilt over the children being aborted? maybe Jack since his later erratic lifestyle. It is not known if Evelyn did any detective work on her own to try and locate any person born from 1902-1904. If so this would be evidence that she was at least searching(like many mothers do today) for the baby she & Jack gave up. This would be fascinating to know if Evelyn(or her son Russell) made these endevours later in their lives to try to locate Evelyn's(& Jack's) adopted out child. I(speculating) would wonder if Drew Barrymore(& her family) as well as Russell Thaw's grandchildren would submit to DNA tests for your grandmother. Very interesting this topic. Koplimek (talk) 16:00, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Can someone provide a page number (or at least a chapter citation) in the Uruburu book for the 3+ alleged abortions described above? My recollection is that the book generally discounts the pregnancy and abortion rumors. —BarrelProof (talk) 23:14, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: There's a source for that in the John Barrymore article: , p. 90 Nakonana (talk) 21:21, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Barrymore, Nesbit child adopted?

message: [New Post:]
I don't have enough expertise to edit the Evelyn Nesbit article, but clearly Stanford White did not "slip[] a roofie in [Evelyn's] drink" in 1900! Perhaps it was a "Mickey Finn," but I'll leave the research to others.
Dangold 16:11, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Here is a good story on slipping choral hydrate into drinks, for date rape, from the year 1900 at Jennie Bosschieter. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 23:42, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Alleged "Roofie"

message: In the "Trial" section of the article, it states that Thaw's plea of temporary insanity was the first use of this defense.  This is inaccurate: in 1869, US Congressman Daniel Sickles was acquitted of the murder of US Atttorney for the District of Columbia, Philip Barton Key, on the basis of temporary insanity.  The insanity defense had been used before then, but the Sickles trial probaly represents the first successful 'temporary insanity' plea in US legal history. [See, inter alia, Keneally, Thomas, "American Scoundrel: The Life of the Notorious Civil War General Dan Sickles", Nan A. Talese, 2002] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.114.226.172 (talk) 10:42, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you know something is false, you should just remove it - especially a comment like this one, made almost as an aside. I've just done so. - Nunh-huh 12:39, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Claim about plea of temporary insanity

message: Why is this article in the 'sex scandals' category? The murder that happened isn't really a scandal as there is no mention of any media coverage. Thus I've removed it for now - bring it back in if you feel it's really justified. 217.95.238.107 22:45, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The murder was covered sensationally in all the media of the time. The trial was headlined as "The Trial of the Century".  The statement that "the murder that happened isn't really a scandal" is not simply wrong, it's absurdly wrong. Coverage set a new standard for being lurid and sensationalistic. And it continued 18 years later when Thaw tried to establish his sanity. Time magazine at that time wrote "Thus, some 18 years ago, while some of the press gave restrained and sober accounts of the Thaw case, the gum-chewers' sheets ranted ad nauseum about the pitfalls on the Great White Way; the "wages of sin"; the wily, wicked life of White; the uselessness of Thaw; the warning to young girls; the eternal law of Justice which prompted Thaw to avenge his wife's honor; the pathetic face of Mrs. Evelyn, etc., etc.  Since that time the press has not improved." - Nunh-huh 00:32, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Category:Sex scandals

message: In Evelyn Nesbit's history under the "Birth" heading it states that she moved to New York City in 1901 and posed for Frederick Church.  However, in Church's own biography it is listed that he died on April 7, 1900. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.130.33.172 (talk) 05:04, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible dating problem 

message: Diana statue? Relevance? Bouncehoper 01:49, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Picture?

message: I'm working on this Nesbit bio, providing referenced information, and generally "filling in" the trajectory of the events in her life. I've just re-done the "Early Life," section which was woefully sketchy and inadequate. Still more work to be done!  Betempte (talk) 02:51, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I have a copy of Evelyn Nesbit's original birth certificate. She was born EVYLIN MARY NISBET on 19th October 1883 in Loanhead, Lasswade, Midlothian, SCOTLAND to parents David Nisbet (draper) and Mary Ross. Her father signed her birth certificate. The information on her father is wrong. He died in Jacksonville, Tompkins County, New York on 6th February 1939 and is buried in Willow Glen Cemetery. Evelyn & her siblings and mother, left her father in Scotland with debts they had accrued as per a newspaper piece dated 02 March 1907, Northern Scot and Moray & Nairn Express regarding the Thaw trial. According to the news paper article, the family initially went to Canada (Hamilton, Ontario) to Mary Nesbit's sister, then later moved to Philadelphia. There is also a lot of information contained in a book called Edwardian Scotland by CW Hill SBN70112178. Ancestry website also have all the census details and much more. about this family Evelyn1959 (talk) 17:04, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Editing Nesbit bio

message: I've edited the entire entry according to the constructive comments provided by reviewers:
Substituted "Nesbit" for "Evelyn" as appropriate throughout entry and re-wrote the lead in a summary format representative of the bio as a whole. Betempte (talk) 22:35, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit update 

message: The year 1900 has a confusing (and contradictory) chronology according to the text; it states that Mrs Nesbit moved to NYC in June but Evelyn did not join her until November - she was staying with family friends although where (PA or NY) is not stated - and that Mrs Nesbit made no contacts towards NY photographers until November. Yet the text goes on to describe "Two artworks, one by Frederick Church dating to July, 1900...- Church being one of the NY photographers Mrs Nesbit had been encouraged to contact. How is Evelyn posing for him when she apparently couldn't have met him for at least another 4 months? Plutonium27 (talk) 16:49, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, is it a particular period style (or photographer preference) that many of these early shots show her with her head tilted back and "looking down her nostrils"? Was there supposed to be something exceptional about her nose-holes or was the effect just incidental? For a celebrated young beauty it seems a rather odd and frankly unflattering pose. Plutonium27 (talk) 17:10, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  More dating problems 

message: The photographs and artworks of Nesbit reflect the social values of the early part of the 20th century. “Downcast eyes” were a sign of good breeding in that it showed a woman who was modest and deferential—not open to male advances. Or alternately it could read as “coy,” the shyness only a pretense, which was considered a provocative invitation.  Either interpretation conveys cultural signals recognized in that era. Many of her modeling poses were considered racy or at least “naughty.” Betempte (talk) 18:48, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Nesbit's posing style 

message: She says in her autobiography that her name was Evelyn Florence, though she was called Florence at home as a child.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.87.57.234 (talk) 05:38, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  First name Evelyn? 

message: Much of the entry has no dates, eg the section called "The Red Velvet Swing" has nothing to indicate when Nesbit met White.  It doesn't have to be an exact date, just the year would do. This isn't the only place, there are several sections where there is no date.  Could someone who know more about this subject please add some dates?  Thank you. Rissa, copy editor (talk) 00:51, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The Uruburu book (p. 99) appears to say she met White one week after the death of William McKinley, which was on September 14, 1901. That would put their first meeting at about September 21, 1901. My impression is that Uruburu sometimes emphasizes engaging the reader with an emotional story rather than reporting the hard facts, so dates are sometimes mentioned only in passing or by describing how much time passed between different events. The book also says (p. 378) that her sworn testimony in the murder trials was used by the IRS to establish her birth date of December 25, 1884, which would put her three month's shy of her 17th birthday at that time. But it also says she herself was not sure of the correct year and had believed it was 1885 – an alternative that would put her at 15 years old at that time. —BarrelProof (talk) 23:48, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dates 

message: The tone of this article is just wrong. It reads as though it was written by a Hearst sob sister of the 1920s or 1930s. It should undergo a thorough rewrite, with a more objective, sophisticated approach.
Boud355 (talk) 05:20, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Gotta agree with this. The tone's way off. EEng 09:47, 13 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree, as also noted in the GA Review. Have started editing, beginning with the Lead, but it will take time.Parkwells (talk) 14:53, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rewrite desperately needed 

message: Geni.com alleges that Evelyn and John Barrymore had a son in 1915 named Geme Barrymore (http://www.geni.com/people/Geme-Barrymore/6000000006805237135). Has anyone else ever heard such a claim? This website also claims that Nesbit's mother and brother both died in 1910, the same year as when her son Russell was born.C'est la vie (talk) 03:06, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Neither websites are reliable sources. Any rube can post 'facts' to them, which remain until someone more sensible either corroborates or removes them. --Animalparty! (talk) 21:51, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Child born in 1915?

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: the subheading (or whatever) "Supermodel and pin-up girl" under the "Modeling career" section.  It adds nothing and both terms are, to me, annoying anachronisms in that neither conceipt had been invented during Nesbit's life. But first you get a chance to defend them. Carptrash (talk) 16:24, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  I am thinking of removing 

message: Half this article is about the trial and not Evelyn herself - shouldn't that section be moved to its own page just about White's murder and the trial?
FritzMcGee (talk) 22:08, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: The section of this article that is about the trial(s) is focused on her role in the trials and her actions and reactions surrounding them, so I don't think it is drifting off topic to become WP:UNDUE. It is also not overly lengthy its six short paragraphs all fit on one screen in my browser, so I don't really see a problem. It is definitely much less than half of the article. I think the only other article on Wikipedia that discusses those trials is the one about Thaw, and it is substantially different, as it is focused more on him. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 17:48, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Tend to concur, though that doesn't necessarily mean that this isn't a viable stand-alone topic anyway. There is sufficient RS coverage for it to pass WP:GNG, and this article probably would not be harmed by a  and some WP:SUMMARY compression with regard to this material, though it also is not broken as it stands now.  Does someone actually want to do all the work to create such a spin-off article (work surely also involving Thaw's article)?  Propositions like this, when viable, usually come down to "Who's going to bell the cat?".  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  18:14, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I am all in favor of someone else doing this spinoff article. A peek at Sob sister might be in order. Carptrash (talk) 21:48, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Separate article for Trial of the Century?