Talk:Audio bit depth

message: Samples are a points, not lines as shown in the image currently on the page. This is explained in the 2nd xiph.org Digital Show & Tell video. The sample-and-hold "stairstep" graph is a bad approximation seen in many digital audio editing apps. It misrepresents what samples are, the relationship between the samples, the waveform that the samples "resolve" to as the output of a DAC, and the analog waveform that the samples are derived from. It's just wrong! So we need a better image to demonstrate. Please watch the video for ideas. —mjb (talk) 20:12, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree that a graph with points would be better than one with horizontal lines falsely depicting digital values that are essentially instantaneous. Digital audio gear is not "sample and hold". Binksternet (talk) 21:41, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

text: Also agree. The first graphic at Quantization (signal processing) is good but the others have the same problem as pointed out by mjb. ~KvnG 13:56, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The linked video from XIPH.org demonstrates the effect of changing word length in digital audio. It's a great demonstration, about 24 minutes long. Word length is not the same concept as audio bit depth, but the point about stair step graphs is widely applicable. Binksternet (talk) 16:53, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: What's the difference between audio bit depth and word length? ~KvnG 13:27, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Right! No difference. I was thinking audio bit rate. Binksternet (talk) 18:56, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know, the stair-step is an acceptable way to think of it as long as you know it's a bunch of points. I'm not aware of any that are actually "correct" on Wikipedia. I think they all want to visually demonstrate the square-like feature and there's not a way to demonstrate quantization without connecting the dots. There's also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pcm.svg which more clearly has 16 different values, a lot better than the 2-bit example which almost appeared to have 5. Radiodef (talk) 03:21, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The desire "to visually demonstrate the square-like feature" is the wrong attitude when the actual sound has no square-like feature. Binksternet (talk) 14:35, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I guess what I mean is connecting the dots at all is wrong but they all do that. For that matter there aren't any dots either, just numbers in a file and the only truly correct way to explain any of it is with the math but this article is relatively nontechnical. I removed the image, I don't want to step on anyone's toes since I agree that it's wrong. I just don't see why it matters so much since it only illustrates the idea at a glance. The article isn't even really about sampling, it's about binary word sizes and the stair-step graphics demonstrate that just fine. Radiodef (talk) 20:09, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

text: Dots are the standard notation for discrete time systems (which PCM is) because in discrete time there is nothing 'between'.  Line may be used in places, but they are incorrect and should be fixed if possible.  By the way, nice job fixing some of the problems with this article  18.62.28.10 (talk) 04:31, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, for all of you critiquing this manner of visualizing sound, you need to offer a better alternative for the person trying to *hear* better through visualization.  As a person who teaches audio production, this "stairstep" visualization is very useful for my students and I always tell them about interpolation.  And if you really want to debate with an audio engineer (and not a someone who writes code), I would say ditch ANY visual aid and just listen to the frequencies.  That will make teaching audio production a lot more difficult.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.65.165.76 (talk) 16:07, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stair-step graphic is inappropriate 

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message: has recently twiddled with numbers in the table. The new numbers match the 1.6 + 6.02b approximation given above. I don't know where the old numbers come from. We should probably be as exact as possible and derive numbers from the algebraic formula. ~Kvng (talk) 16:48, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone already fixed the first columns. I just fixed the third one (dB steps). I think the old values were computed by dividing by 2^b instead of 2^b-1 (if there are 16 possible values, that’s only 15 steps) and/or using the approximation instead of the log10 formula, but even with that taken into account, some of them were just plain wrong. Sam Hocevar (talk) 19:04, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for fixing this. Sorry for reverting briefly. Consider adding a talk page link to your edit summaries if there is a discussion associated with an edit. ~Kvng (talk) 16:43, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  SNR figures