Talk:Hermeticism/Archive 1

message: I moved the common sense of "hermetic" and "hermeticism" (#2) to the disamb page. If that sense is not explained there, the reader will have no way of guessing which article to read. Jorge Stolfi 23:09, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Common sense of "hermetic"

message: As I see the article it links to, he was involved in the occult and mysticism, but nothing says he was a Hermetic. I'm mainly leaving this here as a note to check up on that, and delete the link if found out otherwise. Feel free to hand me the proof.
KV(Talk) 17:36, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Robert Fludd Link 

message: Please add in your sources when possible when you add in information.  I would like to make this a featured article, and we need everything cited for that.
KV 17:31, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plea to Contributors 

message: After we have put as much information as we can, from our current contributors, and have this fully cited, I intend to convert the harvard notation to endnotes to increase readability.  It is too difficult to do mess with numbering before we have a working version.  I felt that I should say this so no one is taken by surprise.
KV 19:27, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statement of Intent - Citations 

message: I'm also thinking that we might want to change the Thoth pic, amongst searching in Wikimedia commons...... under HERMES.... I found the attached image.  It seems to be easier to see, but smaller.  Does anyone have an opinion on this?
KV 06:36, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thoth Pic 

message: Just from perusing this page, I'd like to make a couple of observations. First, it would be a lot easier for a newcomer to the discussion to figure out the conversation if everyone would take the time to sign their posts. This is just one of the suggestions for good wikipedia etiquette. Next, when it comes to dating things, I had always thought that the established date of the oldest fragment meant that the text in question was at least that old. The oldest fragment of something that we have might be the oldest there is, or might just be the oldest fragment that survived, or that we have found so far.  It seems reasonable to say something like "the oldest known fragment has been dated to year X, but some (scholars/philosophers/whoever) suspect it may be a (a bit/much) older, perhaps as old as year Y. Citations, and reasons for thinking it older could then follow. Wesley \
Regarding whether Thoth or anyone else was a god or a man, the obvious thing to do is to list who thought he was what, and when. If the earliest known time anyone suggested he was human was the 19th century, then go ahead and say whatever 19th century writers suggested he was human, but also say this is the first documented time this was suggested. Might have been suggested earlier of course, but if we don't have evidence of it, it's just speculation, right? Or if more than that, list reasons for thinking it's more than speculation. (shrug).  Wesley 17:08, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  General observations 

message: Someone I had look at this argument posted on my user page....  User talk:King_Vegita#Thank_you_for_calling_me_in_on_Hermes_Tris
KV 19:13, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  In addition 

message: All who are interested are asked to join.
KV 19:11, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Wikipedia:Wikiproject/List_of_proposed_projects#Egyptian_Religion|Wikiproject: Egyptian Religion]] 

message: *Some scholars feel that Hermetism is a Greek movement which developed around the time of Christianity.  Other scholars, primarily from occult circles, trace Hermetism's roots to Egypt and its mystery schools.  There are a few others who go further and trace Hermetism to Atlantis, in which some survivors handed their wisdom down to the people of Egypt.
I found this somewhere in the lead/intro. It strike me as OR and weasel words are being used. It can be added back in once sources are found, and weasel words are dropped. SynergeticMaggot 16:07, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No reputable scholars trace Hermeticism to Atlantis, so this is a mute point.  The debate on Greek or Egyptian origins is one between Garth Fowden and other scholars (typically older scholarship).  The debate is usually framed in terms of the ideas originating in Greek philosophy such as Stoic and Middle Platonic thought, then given an Egyptian antiquity veneer, or whether some of the concepts are of Hellenistic Egyptian origin, perhaps reflecting a bit of indigenous tradition.  A recent publication of demotic Hermetic papyri has revealed that there are more differences than similarity between Egyptian language Hermeticism and Greek philosophical Hermetica. The only similarities are the pedagogical format and the names in the dialogues.  Scholars debate on the fine points, but there is no question that Hermetic material emerged in Hellenistic Alexandria. I'm usually afraid to look at this article since its mixing contemporary practicing hermeticism and historical hermeticism. Zeusnoos 17:14, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Awaiting sources 

message: The presumed Egyptian origin of the Hermetica of Bruno and Ficini has been roundly refuted and disproven yet mention of it still abounds, possibly due to the predeliction of such in occult groups. If Hermes Trismagistos was a syncretistic deity comprising Hermes and Thoth his name would be 'Hermes-Thoth' just as Zeus-Ammon was a syncretism of Zeus and Amon. At best Hermes assimilated Thoth but certainly not he reverse. In any case Thoth appears as the son of Hermes and Trismagistos doesn't even feature as anything like a deity in the actual text.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.132.248.192 (talk) 13:00, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Greek Origins

message: The following quoted section has been reworked and the obscurantism deleted. All Gnostic religions are monotheistic in a unitarian and deistic understanding of the term.
"In Hermeticism, the Supreme Deity is referred to variously as God, the All, or the One. The Absolute is the central focus of Hermeticism, and therefore it is difficult to assign it a position among traditional theistic religions, or along the monotheistic–polytheistic spectrum.
Hermeticism transcends both monotheism and polytheism, as well as deism and pantheism. Its philosophy teaches that there is a transcendent God, or Absolute, in which we and the entire universe participate. It also subscribes to the idea that other beings, such as gods, angels and elementals, exist within the universe."  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.25.109.197 (talk) 13:24, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Philosophy

message: As in Hermetism, I propose that all information that comes from Manly P. Hall's works be removed unless it is verified by a reputable third party. -999 (Talk) 16:38, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that Hall is not a generally reliable source. However I think that instead of removing things that cite him it may be more useful to state that he is not a consistent source. The reason for this is that his works are well known and are often a good starting point for finding information as he does say where a lot of his stuff comes from.Morgan Leigh 10:16, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem with referencing Hall is that it creates, in essence, a reference to a reference.  Secret Teachings of All Ages is encyclopedic in nature.  It would be more appropriate to reference, if possible, the original sources that Hall himself references.  But, I wouldn't go so far as to qualify Hall as a non-reputable third-party without such a person making the qualification knowing a little more about Hall's background.--P Todd 01:52, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: MPH is a well known Hermeticist and to drop him is irresponsible. Hermeticism itself is ultimately defined by the Hermeticists of classic works. His analysis of freemasonry symbols is good work. He has ideas not accepted by other Hermeticists, but the reverse holds as well. JEMead (talk) 12:19, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

text:  if you mention people like Barson and Crowley, then Hall fits just as well.JEMead (talk) 12:23, 18 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Manly P. Hall]] 

message: WikiProject Ancient Egypt (or KV) keeps trying to add this post-Egyptian subject to their project. Please respond as to whether you support or oppose this. Please make a decision below, and discuss in the discussion section.
===Support===
*Support - If they want to work on it, they have the right.KV(Talk) 17:50, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Survey 2006 

message: *Support - If they want to work on it, they have the right.KV(Talk) 17:50, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Support

message: *Strongly oppose - the project should stick to subjects that are exclusively Ancient Egyptian. —Hanuman Das 17:47, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Oppose

message: This is a tricky one as many Hermeticists and Occultists believe that although the texts of the Hermetica are definitely post Ancient Egypt the wisdom is not. The theory goes that the substance of the Hermetica dates back to ancient Pharaonic Egyptian religious ideas. Some commentators claim that similar concepts and images can be found in Ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs. I for one have no idea. We know the Hermetica was written in Greek but we also know that there was a lot of intellectual/spiritual traffic between Ancient Greece and Egypt. Pythagoras was supposed to have spent 22 years in Egypt learning his theories. I leave it to the experts - if there are such - to decide. :-) ThePeg 17:08, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Tricky

message: * CommentAnd they don't constantly try to post it, they posted it once and I backed them up.  This is a problem of WP:OWN if you ask me.KV(Talk) 17:50, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion

message: WP:V states:
:"Verifiability" in this context does not mean that editors are expected to verify whether, for example, the contents of a New York Times article are true. In fact, editors are strongly discouraged from conducting this kind of research, because original research may not be published in Wikipedia. Articles should contain only material that has been published by reliable sources, regardless of whether individual editors view that material as true or false. The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is thus verifiability, not truth.
It is not for you to decide whether or not he is correct.  He is a prominent figure, prominent enough that you have a view on him, which WP:NPOV states:
:The neutral point of view is a means of dealing with conflicting views. The policy requires that, where there are or have been conflicting views, these should be presented fairly, but not asserted. All significant published points of view are presented, not just the most popular one.
You need to find something to balance it out if you find him in any way wrong.  You cannot simply go through indiscriminately deleting views because you do not like Manly P. Hall.
:KV(Talk) 22:20, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I support the removal of unqualified Hall citations. He was not an academic, and his theories are at best imaginative. Find supporting citations, start a section on Hall's beliefs, or qualify his assertions. And do it in such a way that you don't undo all the formatting improvements H.D. did. -999 (Talk) 22:33, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of Hall citations 

message: The Church has not always been opposed to Hermeticism has it? The article says it has. The Wikipedia has an image of Hermes on a mosaic floor in Sienna Cathedral which suggests integration rather than opposition. The Renaissance was hugely influenced by Hermetic reading. People like Pico, Ficino and many artists and religious figures of their day saw Hermes' words as confirming the message of Christianity. Most Renaissance religious art was inspired by Hermetic ideas as much as Scripture. Milton read and admired and lifted imagery from Hermes. It would be useful to know when the Church cracked down on the Hermetica. Could someone elaborate on this? I suppose one of the fascinating things about the Hermetica is that although it echoes or presages vast amounts of Christian and Judaic ideas and imagery it was never turned into a religion and thus has no dogma attached to it. This means it can be read without prejudice. I'm reading it now and find it extraordinary. One element no-one has talked about is how close to Quantum Theory it is. It is perhaps no surprise that the Coat Of Arms of nuclear scientist Ernest Rutherford has Hermes on it! ThePeg 17:14, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Hermeticism vs the Church

message: Can anybody start a stub article on Magical idealism? Thanks. -- 201.51.221.66 15:43, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Magical idealism]] - need stub 

message: I am a devout hermeticist and if I where to inform my friend that I was a hermeticist and they tried to learn more about it by going to this article. I don't think they would even get the slightest idea of what hermeticism is. The main problem I see in this article is that it tries to include and treat material originated in the last few hundreds of years as the same as tracible ancient documents.
Lets face it, The corpus hermeticum can be traced thousands of years ago. The Kybalion can not. Trying to suggest that the early hermetic authors believed in the theories in the Kybalion before the Kybalion was published you would have to accept that the early hermetic authors somehow got ahold of this document without public knowledge. The kybalion was published in 1912. Which means that unless this is a mass conspiracy. All hermetic authors before 1912 has no knowledge of the kybalion. Using the Kybalion as a source for the majority of this article without specifying which theories come from which document is needless and confusing. Thusly, I will try to rewrite this article, I will outline which document expresses which theories by quoting the document and expounding it by sourcing the interpretations and I will try to keep as much of the objective information already provided in this article as much intact as possible. This will be quite a project for me, so it will take some time and please express any problems you may have with this and I will try to be as complient as possible.
JaynusofSinope 13:19, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article is ghastly, I will try my best 

message: The intro of an article is supposed to function as an abstract, but this introduction only vaguely talks about beliefs and philosophy, and doesn't go into detail about what they are.  Hermeticism seems to be distillable into key concepts, and yet the article does not do this at all.  If it does, it's so buried in unclear writing that it is indistinguishable.  Could someone who knows something about this rewrite the intro so it works? MSJapan 05:32, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fundamental problem 

message: The comment about the Sabians/Sabeans is not quite true. What happened was there was a community of people the Muslims encountered who practised Hermeticism as their religion. When they were told that because they were not mentioned in the Koran as one of the acceptable religions (Judiasm, Christianity, Islam) they were given a period of time to decide what to do - convert or die. They paid an Islamic Scholar a great deal of money for advice. He scoured the Koran and found a reference to a people known as the Sabeans who were also deemed acceptable and advised them to name themselves that. This they did, so when the authorities returned they let them live. The source for this story I found in the book Hermetica: the Lost Wisdom of the Pharoahs. ThePeg 21:28, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Granted that is the story, but it's missing the part that the source quoted is mentioning.  They were allowed to live because they were accepted to be the Sabians.  Feel free to add more information, perhaps in the history section, elaborating from that source.  Btw, they also had to name their book and prophet.  Technically, though, they called themselves Hermetists, the precursor to Hermeticism, but of course that article was deleted, not because it wasn't sourced, or was untrue (generally, if a dictionary includes either, it's Hermetism, not Hermeticism), but because they disagreed with it and claimed that a term from the early centuries BC or AD was created by a man born in the 20th century. I gave up on editting this article after they simply went through and deleted everything they didn't want to be true, POVed the article, and got away with it since they had numbers, even if not actual policy.KV(Talk) 22:08, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Sabians

message: The "medieval rendering" at the top of the page is by Jean-Jacques Boissard, from De Divinatione et Magicis Praestigiis (1605).  I wasn't sure how much (if any) of that should go into the caption, but probably at least a link to the artist is appropriate? Strumphs 15:45, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Picture citation?

message: I have suggested that the As Above, So Below article be merged into this one.  There is very little in that article that is not already covered here (other than some examples of rock music lyrics that make use of the term), so there is not much to merge.  I simply see no reason for such a short article on a concept that is inseperable from Hermeticism, and which is already covered fairly well here. ---RepublicanJacobiteThe'FortyFive' 19:14, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree:  As the original creator of this article one year ago, I agree with this proposal.  I would however like to assure we put a redirect in place that routes to the As Above So Below sub-heading in this article.  When I created the entry, I had hoped that it would be expanded.   With the exception of the interesting but trivial rock music lyric references, I see that no additional expansion has been made.  I would also like to see the "see also" section somehow preserved--I find the other references that are not neccessarily thought to be Hermetic in nature to the concept significant.--P Todd 01:47, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am glad that someone finally responded to this proposal.  Honestly, though, I cannot claim to know enough on the subject to decide what should be merged, and what should not.  Certainly, the, as you say "interesting but trivial," rock lyrics are not necessary.  But, truly, I leave it to you, as the original author to judge what should be merged and how it should be done.  I am not sure, honestly, that redirects to specific subsections of an article are allowed.  But, I can check on that.  Thanks for the response. ---RepublicanJacobiteThe'FortyFive' 02:17, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

text: RepublicanJacobite, I'll make the merge sometime this Thanksgiving weekend.--P Todd (talk) 16:10, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds good.  Thanks. ---RepublicanJacobiteThe'FortyFive' 16:25, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Merge completed.--P Todd (talk) 03:20, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you. ---RepublicanJacobiteThe'FortyFive' 03:22, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge proposal. 2007 

message: We recently had a brief edit flurry, with one editor replacing all dates with "AD/BC" dating... and another editor reverting back to the "CE/BCE" designation.  I don't think the dating system has actually been discussed ... so it may be a good idea to get a record of consensus on file in case this becomes an issue.  I approve of using CE.  Since the article establishes that Hermeticism has non-Christian elements to it, and can even be thought of as a non-Christian religion, I think it is appropriate to use a non-Christian dating system.  I am sure there are other reasons.  Please express them for the record. Blueboar 14:31, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As a non-christian Hermetist and the person who started the CE dating, I concur.  KV(Talk) 15:13, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I concur as well, even though I am Irish Catholic.  The BCE/CE system is much more appropriate. ---RepublicanJacobiteThe'FortyFive' 02:18, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. (off topic: why do I suddenly feel like I'm in the set up for a bad religious joke here: "A Protestant, a Pagan and a Papist all post on a Wikipedia Talk Page, the Protestant says....") Blueboar 03:01, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I hate to see a joke left incomplete; it's like whetting your lips and then getting nothing to drink. Accordingly, I'll take the liberty of referencing the joke (and, with artistic license, offering a variant on the beginning you cited):
An Episcopalian died and went to Heaven. As St. Peter was escorting him around his new surroundings, he came across a group of people who were suffering terrible tortures. He queried Peter, "Who are those people, and why are they being punished so terribly?"
St Peter replied, "Oh, those are Jews who ate pork."
They continued with their journey, wherupon the man spied another group of people, suffering even greater trials, and he again asked St Peter, "Who are these people, and why are they being punished so terribly?"
And St. Peter replied, "Oh, those are Catholics, and they ate meat on Fridays."
They continued on their way, and they came across a third group of people, who were suffering even greater tortures. The man was extremely curious, and he asked St. Peter, "Well, who are these unfortunate souls, and what did they do to warrant these horrible sufferings?'
"Oh," St. Peter replied, "Those are Episcopalians, and they were caught eating their steak with a salad knife."
I hope this provided you with a welcome break from your esoteric researches into the Hermetic Corpus. 207.237.89.3 (talk) 15:31, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dates = AD vs CE 

message: For Hermeticism, Alchemy is not the changing of physical lead into physical gold.[15] Rather, one attempts to turn themselves from a base person (symbolized by lead) into an adept master (symbolized by gold). The various stages of chemical distillation and fermentation, among them, are metaphors for the Magnum Opus (Latin for Great Work) performed on the soul.[16]
I am so thoroughly tired of this modern, psychological, new-age reductionist misinterpretation of alchemy. It is just as false as the misinterpretation of alchemy by the hands of modern, scientific materialism and dogma. 
If anyone looks into the actual history of the ancient alchemists, they will prove to themselves the utter ignorance and falsity of this statement. Horror of horrors, many great alchemists, and not just greedy puffers worked in their labs. The laboratory work is not just merely a metaphor for the internal work. The inner and the outer work are in harmony. It is an investigation of God and Spirit in Nature, not just human nature, as the anthropocentric new agers might proselytize!
I will make a commitment to myself to reword this as best as I can, in alignment with actual fact, and not new age, psychological garbage! If anyone contends my position, I would be very interested in their well-informed judgments.
Thank you--75.155.209.69 (talk) 00:47, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, now my references are not perfect, but as I am a beginning practical alchemist and not a scholar or historian, please bear with me. I will work harder for better references, and others can as well, but I feel this explanation is MUCH less false and reductionist and is much more encompassing; much closer to the truth. --75.155.209.69 (talk) 04:42, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: (goran) It did not save what I wrote. I do not know why. Tis a lesson to write it in notepad first. I'll have to redo it.--75.155.209.69 (talk) 04:47, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, I intended to leave a response here after I reverted your edits yesterday, but I forgot.  All I wanted to suggest was that you combine your information (and your references) with the information (and references) that were already there.  That way, both positions are represented.  I do not have a problem with your edits, per se, I just did not want to see the previous content deleted.  Morgan Leigh has made some edits today that are close to what I am talking about.  Let me know if I can be of any assistance. ---RepublicanJacobiteThe'FortyFive' 01:22, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alchemy 

message: This is not a direct edit, but something that needs to be discussed by everyone who has been editing this article!
Hermetics is not a static system of beliefs or texts, but is a source of knowledge for students to continue the work of developing the knowledge of Hermetic Science and Philosophy. 
The first thing missing from this article is a definition of Hermetics. I define it as follows: "Hermetic Science is the study of human consciousness and how the individual uses their consciousness to understand and to function in their environment." This definition and others should be a topic of serious discussion.
If you have read and studied the texts over the period of time already given in the various parts of this entry you will see that this Science and Philosophy has continued to develop from the time of the first documents to the present day. 
Start as far back in the history of the documents as you care to go. For example: "Iamblichus' Exhortation to the Study of Philosophy" is a far better explanation of the basic concepts of Hermetics than any work that precedes it. This improvement in the knowledge and the basic principles and concepts of Hermetics shows a clear line of development all the way from Classical Greece to the present day. A still more recent example is the work of Mary Anne Atwood “A Suggestive Inquiry into the Hermetic Mystery;” originally published anomymously in 1850. It was later reprinted by Isobel de Steiger. However, it is known that the reprint is accurate because an additional copies of the original work are available. I am unsure if any of the editors of this article are even aware of this text or have ever read it. I note that it has not been mentioned anywhere in this article nor do any of the numerous works cited in her work appear in this article. (I have a copy of this book that I scanned and formmated into an e-text and would be happy to pass that to anyone who would like to read it. E-mail to Hermotimus@aol.com.)
It is known that this book found its way into the hands of a number of students of Hermetics who continued to carry on with the work of developing and improving the understanding of Hermetic Science and Philosophy. Among those students are the authors:  Waite Arthur Edward (note his Hermetic Museum work); as well as numerous members of the Golden Dawn through the influence of both Waite and de Steiger; Atkinson, William, Walker, who is the likely author or co-author of the Kybalion, which is considered one of the modren texts which defines Hermetics;  and Case, Paul Foster, who founded the Builders of the Adytum in 1932, and through its offices over the past 76 years, have taught by means of mail order lessons, what he knew of Hermetics and what he developed in terms of new knowledge on the subject during his lifetime. Hermotimus (talk) 03:47, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Good try, but you shouldn't use the first person in an encyclopedia article. Also, all opinions on a topic must be cited to a reference. Please read WP:CITE to find out how to properly format the citation. Bob (QaBob) 04:55, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

text: Sure, no problem. Just be aware of Wikpedia policy against synthesis and I'm sure you will do fine. Oh, and if you would add ~~~~ at then end of each comment you post it will add your signature and date/time of posting.  Bob (QaBob) 16:00, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Modern History of Hermetics 

message: "Simply stated, Hermetism, or its synonym Alchemy, was in its primary intention and office the philosophic and exact science of the regeneration of the human soul from its present sense-immersed state into the perfection and nobility of that divine condition in which it was originally created. Secondarily and incidentally, as will presently appear, it carried with it a 
knowledge of the way in which the life-essence of things belonging to the subhuman kingdoms - the metallic genera in particular and, correspondingly, be intensified and raised to a nobler form than that in which it exists in its present natural state. It is to this secondary aspect only that the popular mind turns when Alchemy is mentioned, unaware of the subject's larger and primary intention, and it is desirable, therefore, to treat of the science here first from the larger aspect, and subsequently from its lesser and subsidiary one." A SUGGESTIVE INQUIRY INTO HERMETIC PHILOSOPHY AND ALCHEMY  by Mary Anne Atwood (1850)(reissue with intro by de Steiger) LONDON: J. M. WATKINS, 21 Cecil Court, W.C. pg 26 Hermotimus (talk) 23:06, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you are in the wrong place, there is another article on Hermetism, which is the topic of your quote. This article is on Hermeticism. Bob (QaBob) 23:13, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Definition of Hermetics 

message: I realize that wiki rules dictate that all entries are capitalized, but the author Jan Vijg in his/her book "Aging of the Genome" uses the term un-capitalized.  
re: Can modern science succeed where hermeticism failed?
The wiktionary has no entry and so, I wonder if capitalization is a mistake or that some kind of notation should be applied in the definition.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.174.73.124 (talk) 02:01, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is hermeticism a proper noun? 

message: Didn't know where else to put this, so here goes. Isn't it said somewhere that the reason HT possesses three parts of the wisdom is because he is actually a pseudonym of three composite authors, or traditions, namely those of Europe, Asia and Egypt? Can't cite a source, does anyone else know of this?
This is speculative but perhaps a better interpretation of three parts of the wisdom could represent the development of Hermetism from it's Hellenic roots. The three parts being the civic religion, the mystery religions and philosophy. Hermetism subsumes and completes all three.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.137.36.230 (talk) 10:08, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: The three parts of the wisdom of the whole universe

message: I'm generally well-read and considered fairly intelligent, as well, one of my interests is Philosophy. So it was with some eagerness that I clicked the Hermeticism link in another article (Paracelsus) looking to learn a little something more. Well, from the intro paragraph on, I simply can not decipher anything that this article is trying saying. In that regard, all your work here is useless. What's the point of writing in a way that only those who already understand can get anything from it? Clearly you put a lot of effort into this article. Pls take that passion and re-write at least the intro paragraph so that a reasonably informed lay person can understand something about Hermeticism.
Ronewolf (talk) 20:06, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  article is unintelligible to those outside your domain 

message: The following insert is being placed into the article. There is no references and the said user has inserted statements trying to connect an "Occult" link to the Christian Message Bible. I will oppose until a real source is found. Good luck in finding it. 
In the Message Bible translation, created by Eugene Peterson, the well known sentence in the Lord's prayer translated from New Testament Greek manuscripts usually as, "Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven", is rendered "Do what's best — as above, so below."
Basileias (talk) 02:41, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: the addition seems trivial. Better without it. Car Henkel (talk) 19:36, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

text: Inserting curious facts, whether the intended tie is meant or not, tie a Christian author with the occult. It will need solid references. Basileias (talk) 13:38, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Message Bible 

message: This article (or at least its introduction) fails to answer that question. The intro says hermeticism is a set of beliefs, but it doesn't say anything about what those beliefs are. Can someone please fix that?46.194.129.179 (talk) 13:54, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  You really have my sympathies; this article is simply dreadful (in terms of explaining to a layman) what Hermeticism is. I am too exhausted from fighting with the Wiki Police so, rather than edit and enter the fray, let me just try to explain (I'm usually pretty good at that):
Hermeticism is a set of beliefs and practices whose aim is the influencing of the world through contact with the heavenly forces. It claims descent from a prisca theologica, an original untainted, pure set of doctrines, secretive, which allegedly were compiled in ancient times, in Egypt, and whose undiluted purity guarantees their veracity and efficacy. Much of the importance of Hermeticism is due to its connection with the devlopment of science in the Renaissance and 17th century, because the prominence given to the idea of influencing or controlling nature, led many of the newe scientists to look to magic and its allied arts (astrology, etc.) in celebrating the idea of experiment--of putting Nature "to the test." Consequently, it is the practical aspect of the Hermetic writings that attracted attention after the Renaissance. Isaac Newton placed great faith in this idea of a "pure tradition," an unadulterated pure ancient doctrine which he studied vigorously, attempting (believe it or not) to aid in his understanding of the physical world. 
I hope this helps. 207.237.89.3 (talk) 15:47, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

text: New stuff goes at the bottom.  We have a section in the article titled "Hermetic beliefs", but I will give a brief summary of that in the intro. Ian.thomson (talk) 14:41, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  Why should that explanation of Hermeticism be in the article? No reliable sources are provided. I think that it should be removed.--75.190.245.39 (talk) 00:33, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: What is Hermeticism??

message: What's with the opening paragraph? I do not see any references or sources for most of the information. To be honest, it looks to me like someone giving their own interpretation of what Hermeticism is.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.190.245.39 (talk) 01:48, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opening Paragraph 

message: "Much of the importance of Hermeticism arises from its connection with the development of science during the time from 1300 to 1600 A.D. ..."
The points of this entire paragraph clearly derive from the work of Frances Yates, specifically Giordano Bruno and the Hermetic Tradition.
This book was controversial within the history of science, claiming that Renaissance occultism, specifically magic, was influential over the development of science in ways not previously appreciated. The general response by historians seems to have acknowledged the general point in a moderate way, but Yates' works are not considered sound scholarship. I think the claim, that this is where much of Hermeticism's importance derives from, is too strong. Hermeticism specifically is not generally acknowledged by historians of science as being an especially significant influence.
I think the entire paragraph should properly be deleted. If it must remain, it should be prefaced by saying that it is a statement of the claims of Frances Yates (and possibly that those claims aren't taken especially seriously).
* Someone, perhaps yourself, should insert citations referencing the appropriate pages in Yates's lengthy work, to which I do not have access. Wahrmund (talk) 21:54, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations for sixth paragraph. 

message: I contend that falsely attributed is not a suitable replacement for pseudepigraphical. False is derived from fallō (“deceive”), which implies intentional wrong doing to gain advantage. The intention when ascribing pseudepigraphical writings to Hermes was not to deceive, but rather to indicate that, at it's most basic reduction, Thoth was the god of writing. So rather than having an intention to deceive, its actual purpose was to remind the reader of the divine derivation of knowledge. Plus by removing it we are curtailing opportunities for people to learn new words, which is bogus. Morgan Leigh | Talk 09:10, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: pseudepigraphical

message: The end of the first paragraph states, "..true theology exists which is present in all religions and was given by God to man in antiquity."
My understanding is that Hermeticists believe that "God" may or may not be a self-conscience entity. However, by using the term "God" seems to exclude the belief that this force could be a non-conscience entity. Am I correct? If so, is there another term that could be used instead of "God". Perhaps there should be a section on the Hermetic idea of what "God" is.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.251.145.104 (talk) 04:03, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  God? 

message: have a look at this edit, and then Google for the sentence [https://www.google.nl/search?q=who+argued+that+Casaubon%27s+allegation+of+forgery&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=CdMYV7qvMsaXsgGL6JyoCA "who argued that Casaubon's allegation of forgery". Lulu.com seems to be doing good business with Wiki-texts. The info in question comes from Ralph Cudworth, The True Intellectual System of the Universe. First American Edition by Thomas Birch, 1837 (:Hermes Trismegistus, :Hermetica). Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 13:24, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I am getting a different set of results than you (I am on google.ca rather than google.nl). Lulu.com is not showing up in my search results. On my search, the top hits are all Wikipedia articles (Hermes Trismegistus, Hermetica, Hermeticism). — Diannaa (talk) 13:30, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cudworth 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: In the second-to-last paragraph in the section Hermeticism#Renaissance is the following sentence:
*According to Cudworth, the texts must be viewed as a terminus ad quem and not a quo. 
I'd like to put an English translation of the Latin terms in parentheses after each one, but my knowledge of Latin is limited. When I used Google translate, I got "boundary at which" for "terminus ad quem" and "where" for "quo". While those may be accurate translations, I don't think they make enough sense for the reader who does not know Latin because they are too close in meaning. This sentence must be understood in context, and, in particular, in relation to the sentence that precedes it. Besides "boundary", perhaps "terminus" could be understood as meaning "ending," or "end point". Perhaps an editor who knows Latin could help with coming up with precise, nuanced translations for these two terms that would make sense in relation to the previous sentence and make clear what the important difference is between the two terms.  – Corinne (talk) 15:50, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Renaissance 

message: Many writers, including Lactantius, Cyprian of Carthage,[8] Augustine of Hippo,[9] Marsilio Ficino, Giovanni Pico della Mirandola, Giordano Bruno, Tommaso Campanella, Sir Thomas Browne, and Ralph Waldo Emerson, considered Hermes Trismegistus to be a wise pagan prophet who foresaw the coming of Christianity.[10][11]
Where's Newton?  People are very uncomfortable WRT to his involvement in subjects such as this.  108.200.234.93 (talk) 17:17, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Newton is mentioned in the next paragraph. If you have reliable sources about Newton's interest in Hermeticism, feel free to add more about it here. There's no denying that Newton had a lot of mystical interests, which often contrast strongly with the Enlightenment rationalism that he inadvertently gave rise to, and Wikipedia even has an article about them: Isaac Newton's occult studies. But that article doesn't mention Hermeticism specifically, and I don't know what his relationship with Hermeticism was. A. Parrot (talk) 18:58, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Isaac Newton 

message: I have removed the reference to Augustine in the introduction. Unlike Cyprian, Lactantius and most Renaissance hermeticists, Augustine of Hippo did not believe Hermes to be a wise prophet. In City of God, VIII.23-4, he characterises Hermes as being inspired by demons rather than the Holy Spirit and replacing an old form of idolatry by a new one, even though, inspired by demons, he would mourn a future abolition of this very system. For a secondary source, this view is expressed in the very beginning of Frances A. Yates's "Giordano Bruno and the Hermetic Tradition", specifically in the pages 9-11 of Routledge's 1964 edition. Leefeniaures audiendi audiat 00:55, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Augustine