Talk:Westie (person)

message: Assume this is an acronym related to place, but it is undefined to a non-"ANZAC" audience.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.49.218.149 (talk) 07:42, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: IRAN?

message: Need a link to classism somewhere. Secretlondon 20:01, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments

message: and this article needs bits on the sydney and melbourne westie/bogans at least. --Ballchef 14:41, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  I am a sydney westie 

message: The claim that bogan is only a South Island term is absurd. Bogans are plentiful in West Auckland (as discussed) and the Hutt Valley. Although "western", the West Coast "coasters" are not, generally, bogan/westie types and have other perceived character defects 84.66.44.115 20:38, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Zealand 

message: when was the last time you saw a sane person in real life with a mullet? --Sumple 22:53, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Out of date? 

message: I have to ask why the suggestion is for the Bogan article to be subsumed by the Westie article, and not the other way around. I can only assume that this is due to the ongoing perception of Sydney residents of Sydney being the non-political capital of the country, despite said residents  being more or less isolated in holding that opinion.
Petrus4 11:52, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree that westie people should be merged with bogan. --WikiCats 10:16, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

text: The result of the debate was do not merge. --WikiCats 11:56, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hear! Hear! Thanks for removing the tags.  I was about to remove them myself.  Yes, as I've stated, I agree that the general consensus was that to merge the articles would be a mistake.  The terms are not equivalent.  I've just done an edit of the article to remove the implication that westies are bogans or that the term is implicitely classist. Jimp 01:42, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merging of the Bogan article into the Westies' article 

message: Bogan is clearly a term that has little use in Sydney and should definitely be kept separate from Westie.
Bogan can be seen to be not offensive whereas Westie has direct derogatory connotations - and related terms (Eastie).
I agree - since Eastie has been been given a NPOV tag, I've given Westies a NPOV.
:I disagree that westie people should be merged with bogan. --WikiCats 10:16, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bogans and Westies different terms 

message: As I've mentioned on the  Bogan talk page & the Aussie English talk page the terms are not synonymous but carrying through with this merger would be to imply that they were.  To make this implication would be to have a go at westies.  This would be offensive even tags suggesting the merge could be found offensive.  It seems that most of us are against the merger and for much the same reasons as I mention.  Therefore there should be no merger and the tags should be removed promptly. Jimp 10:38, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The result of the debate was do not merge. --WikiCats 11:56, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hear! Hear! Thanks for removing the tags.  I was about to remove them myself.  Yes, as I've stated, I agree that the general consensus was that to merge the articles would be a mistake.  The terms are not equivalent.  I've just done an edit of the article to remove the implication that westies are bogans or that the term is implicitely classist. Jimp 01:42, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Oppose the merge with ''[[Bogan]]''

message: "... Sydney's western suburbs, a region of suburbs in which the cost of living is generally considered to be less than that of Sydney's more easterly and inner-city suburbs." states the article.  Either it is or it isn't: what does it matter how it's considered to be? Jimp 03:29, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cost of living 

message: I would like to suggest that for much of the area between Parramatta and Penrith the crime rate is lower than it is in say Redfern?
Also - in a LOT of the residential suburbs - it is probably lower than the crime rate in Sydney's Central Police District.
--Garrie 04:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin of the term... Sydney, Australia 

message: :The westie stereotype is perceived by some as being in a state of transition, as Sydney is one of the most expensive places in the world to live
I think this needs to be very well referenced.
In fact if your list is long enough, every place in the world is one of the most expensive places in the world to live. It's all relative to income anyway.
--Garrie 04:51, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cost of living around the world 

message: Please do not make major changes and remove tags during this sensitive time when major issues about this article are being discussed.--WikiCats 12:17, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The point of NPOV and other sort sof tags is that they are inviting people to improve the article to remove the problems. Adding references and removing POV sections does not need discussion on the talk page first - not unless/until the action is disputed. JPD (talk) 15:54, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Restore the link to Easties if you like, but it will have to be removed if Easties is deleted. The changes haven't been challenged until you tell us what is wrong with them. It is good thing to improve an article to address issues raised in a debate, even while the debate is still going on. That is how Wikipedia works, and the guidelines encourage it. The only question is whether they were improvements or not. JPD (talk) 18:03, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

text: I deleted it because it is fairly clear that the article is going to be deleted. I have already agreed that that may have been premature, so you could add it back in. That is a very minor point compared with the content of the article. JPD (talk) 13:06, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

text: The Macquarie reference claims to be the online edition of the dictionary, which is online. There is no link given, as you have to pay $20 a year to subscribe to it. I don't see why the Scott Poynting reference can't be checked - find the book in a library and look it up, or even try . You can't complain that an article has OR research, and then complain when someone bothers to add referenced material! JPD (talk) 15:21, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

text: I don't see what about the phrase is not neutral, but even if it weren't that would not be relevant. The sentence taken as a whole is neutral, which is all that matters. Isolating phrases from their context is a bad idea. JPD (talk) 18:03, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Scientists (and encyclopedias!) all over the world use terms like 'socio-economic' when describing a group of people. The term only describes through what aspects of a group you're describing, it's not inherently POV. Please read Socioeconomics for more information. --JoanneB 16:15, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Joanne is absolutely right. On top of that, the phrase you complained about doesn't say anything at all about the people from the Greater West of Sydney. Even more importantly, the whole sentence is reporting what the dictionary says, rather than stating it as a fact, and so the only question as far as NPOV goes is whether it is whether the Macquarie Dictionary's view is worth reporting, and you would have to agree that the Mac is a pretty important and authoritative source when describing the use and meaning of Australian words. JPD (talk) 13:58, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Major removals

message: I found this entry in the Macquarie dictionary.
I'm not sure how much of this can be used verbatim due to copyright issues but the ideas are certainly valuable and should be incorporated into the article.
(Derogatory) a person from the western suburbs of Sydney, usually characterised as being unsophisticated, uncouth, and typically wearing certain distinguishing items of clothing, as flannelette shirts and ugh boots. The word is applied negatively to any people living west of one's own suburb, thus a Bondi inhabitant may call a person from Ryde a westie, but Ryde inhabitants would not consider themselves such, and instead apply the term to people from Parramatta, who in turn apply it to people from Penrith, etc. 
--Richard 17:10, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it probably is worth mentioning. Note that this is from the Macquarie Book of Slang, not the dictionary. The dictionary entry, as well as being more recent (I think) , takes a slightly different approach. JPD (talk) 19:05, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dictionary entry from the Macquarie dictionary 

message: The article still has numerous problems with POV and a lack of neutral prose. --WikiCats 10:45, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Please do not place NPOV tags on articles unless you are willing to spell out the problems in detail on the talk page. There is nothing non-neutral about the one example you have given so far. The only problems I can see are a lack of direct citations for the "Sydney, Australia" subsection, which also contains material that is borderline, and the "unintelligent", etc stereotype, which is not a POV problem at all. JPD (talk) 10:54, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

text: If your "Sydney name calling battle" is already documented, then it can be included in Wikipedia, in this article or otherwise. If not, it shouldn't be documented here, but that is not relevant to this discussion at all. Please stick to discussing this article. You have claimed there are POV problems here, but saying that you have been reviewing the article since the start of the year, or making accusations about other articles, does not back up this claim. JPD (talk) 13:40, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Read carefully WikiCats: I am not targeting the vast bulk of Sydney's population based on anything. I am trying to write about the term "westie". Nothing I have written endorses the use of the term, or says anythign abou the people of Western Sydney, other than that they have been associated with the stereotype. If you think I am opposing your view, you are mistaken. You still haven't given an example of any of my prose that is not neutral. JPD (talk) 14:08, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Works fine for me. JPD (talk) 14:24, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Neutrality

message: This reference says absolutely nothing.
I've called for citations and if they are not provided soon I will be deleting the relevant contributions. --WikiCats 13:57, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Absolutely nothing is a bit of an exaggeration, but it doesn't mention the politics stuff. Apart from that, the Macquarie Dictionary is a prefectly good source, online or otherwise. The fact that it is not freely accessible online is irrelevant, but a reference to the physical edition might be better - why don't you go down to the public library and look it up? Unfortunately, libraries near me aren't likely to have a Macquarie. I'm fairly sure that copying a dictionary entry in this context wouldn't be copyvio, but at any rate, I haven't copied it word for word, but slightly paraphrased the appropriate bits so that they fit in relevant part of the article, as you will see by comparing it with Capitalistroadster's quote at the deletion discussion. JPD (talk) 14:30, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Citations

message: I was OK with having the "not a forum" tag on this Talk Page.  What motivated WikiCats to remove it?  Does he now think that it IS a forum for that?  I certainly hope not.
--Richard 16:43, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  What, it IS a forum about what you think about people from West Sydney? 

message: Above I said: "Other publications could have very well used our article as a basis for their definition."
The definition  says plainly that they used us in defining Westies. This is a disaster. This is not what we do. --WikiCats 08:52, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is actually exactly what Wikipedia does - brings together all sorts of information (properly referenced, etc.), which is then available for anyone to use or copy within the GFDL. This is completely irrelevant to the question of whether the info is based on references, as we shouldn't even think of using something like that as a source for this article. Instead, we use reliable sources like the Macquarie dictionary and published books and articles. The fact that our article is used so broadly is all the more reason for us to make sure the material in it is based on reliable sources. JPD (talk) 15:50, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Is this article based on references or are others using us as the reference?

message: Changed section where it said Western suburbs had higher crime than inner and eastern suburbs to being perceived by some to have higher crime. It didn't have a reference, and it's not correct, at least not in such a definitive way. (Surry Hills and Newtown have far more street crime than almost any Western suburb.)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Illuminatingvision (talk • contribs) 09:29, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: High crime

message: They do exist, at least in Sydney (and I always thought that 'westie' was created as opposed to 'eastie'). 124.170.13.52 (talk) 06:27, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Easties

message: This article lacks any sources what so ever and seems to be more of a lengthy dictionary entry rather than a useful encyclopedia entry
Wikipedia is not a dictionary
Yet this article has a thorough, albeit unsourced definition of the term
Wikipedia is not a publisher of original thought
Wikipedia is not a soapbox
Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information
124.184.251.254 (talk) 12:56, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It is the subject of scholarly research. ShipFan (talk) 16:07, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deletion 

message: Around 1979, the fashion/ 'society' pages of the Sun Herald experimented with having a youth section. That section was the first time I had heard/read the term westie, and included a definition of sorts, along the lines of 'those people we don't want to be like- wearing check shirts and denim jeans all the time'. one of the few complains letters published pointed out that it was derogatory of people from the western suburbs- I remember that being the first time I was aware of such a concept. Would be a good reference to use, but I can find no reference in the searchable databases at http://archives.smh.com.au/. While i was there, though (and still only looking at the unpaid access) useful things for the article i found were:
- several mentions of 'westie' in headlines of the 1980's, none prior to that
- earliest relevant article mention seems to be Sunday, June 24, 1979
- Thursday, September 23, 1982 looks like an early and relevant mention, with an article which appears to be about the different Sydney subcultures.
Hope this is useful for someone with complete access to the databases. WotherspoonSmith (talk) 13:07, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origins/history 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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