Talk:Etymology of California

message: The relevance of the passage from the diary of Christopher Columbus's first voyage escapes me. No mention of "California" at all. Does anyone have a clue why this is here? -- Jmabel | Talk 00:24, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)
:Columbus' passage talks about hearing about an island populated by only women; Las Sergas de Esplandián describes California as an island populated only by women. — J3ff 00:43, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Columbus

message: Recently added "Or, Calpurnia." I've cut this, pending some citation of who might think this is the origin: totally new to me. -- Jmabel | Talk 09:28, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Calpurnia]] ?

message: I believe I have satisfied several of the recent requests for citation in this article; I strongly suspect that the article that I've now cited at http://etimologias.dechile.net/?California was actually the unacknowledged source for a great deal of what was written in the original Spanish-language Wikipedia article.
For one sentence for which citation has been requested, I cannot imagine what could qualify as acceptable citation: it seems like nothing more than a transitional sentence: "This notion of a place of women without men echoes a passage from the diary of Christopher Columbus's first voyage." To say that one description of a place of women without men "echoes" another seems to me to be tautological: User:Zzyzx11, what exactly do you have in mind that needs to be cited for? - Jmabel | Talk 07:45, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requests for citation

message: I have cut the following:
It must be noted that there has been a small village called California on the coast of Norfolk, England since at least the 13th Century, which, given the large number of settlers to the United States coming from the area, making it another theory.
According to , California, Norfolk received its name in the mid-19th century, during the California Gold Rush. Hence, it was named after California on the West Coast of the United States, not vice versa. (Our article [Ormesby St. Margaret with Scratby] says the same.) Offhand, I see no reason to doubt that. I would need to see quite a solid citation to the contrary. - Jmabel | Talk 22:17, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Norfolk

message: I am British and living in Finland and noticed a striking resemblence between the Finnish word for Rocky Mountain (Kalliovuori, or plural Rocky Mountains which is kalliovuoret) and California.   You may not see the similarilty but let me explain. Finnish has a very old form of indicating place, by using the word ending being -na (e.g. "kotona" ="at home", formed from "koti"=home). So "by the Rocky Mountains" could be kalliovuorena. Finns have no C in their language and are used to turning foreign C words into K words, and similarly there is no F in the Finnish language (the name Finland comes from Swedish!) and approximate it to V in their own language. Hence a foreign word such as "Coffee" in Finnish has become "Kahvi".  Reversing the process (making an English or Spanish word from Kalliovuorena would amazingly deliver the word Calliofuorena. But Finnish diphthongs io and uo are rare in other languages and thus it could become quite easily Calliforena or simply California.
Being curious about words I immediately started to seek out the actual origin of the word California and although it seems that it may come from a Spanish writer, it seems that its not exactly certain. And even if this writer did invent the name, where did he get the name from? So there are still a lot of unanswered questions. And of course the Rockies and California are not exactly adjacent (but maybe to far away explorers maybe they are close enough - you may have to cross the Rockies to get to California).  It may be very far-fetched to think that a Finn was somehow responsible for giving California its name, but stranger things have happened!  If this is possibly true, it would really please the Finns because the only word they have ever donated to other languages is the word "sauna" Tom  — Preceding undated comment added 16:49, 11 August 2006
:The name was invented by a Spanish writer in the 11th century, before the discovery of the actual place. There was no natural contact available with Finnish speakers. The construction itself is too complicated and against known patterns. --Vuo 18:52, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And as for the Rockies and California, please remember that the name originally applied mainly to what is now Baja California. - Jmabel | Talk 03:36, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Could California be a corruption of Kalliovuorena?

message: Rcently added: "Equally important is that this island, inhabited by Black women, was in the imagination of Spaniards. This demonstrates the relative position that race did not have the same currency as it does to this day."
* "Equally important" compared to what?
* Second sentence makes no sense, at least to me. I cannot even parse it confidently. 
I'll allow at least a few days for someone to address this, otherwise I'll just cut it. - Jmabel | Talk 18:35, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Recent addition ("black women") questioned

message: I am in the process of finishing a major rewrite of this article. Unfortunately, the current article perpetuates a number of theories that have long been discredited. There is no disagreement among historians as to the origin of the name (it is from Esplandian). The original article is not based on reliable of sources. I hope people agree that this is an improvement. Lagringa 20:49, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The history of discredited theories should be retained, even though it should indicate that they are discredited. I agree that Las sergas de Esplandián is almost certainly the correct explanation; still, the history of the false conjectures is interesting in and of itself; these appear to be a veriyiable part of lexicographical history, and should be there for the benefit of people who are interested. - Jmabel | Talk 23:34, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Major Rewrite

message: :It may be derived from caliente fornalia, Spanish for hot furnace, or it may come from calida fornax, Latin for hot climate.[5]
fornax is Latin for furnace and fornalia seems Portuguese for an oven-related term.
But hot is quente in Portuguese.
So it seems that somebody is mixing languages and even references here.
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 193.203.200.2 (talk • contribs) 15 September 2006.
Sorry if this isn't the best place, I'm new here. But remember the Portuguese words: "Cal", "Fornia", and "Forno", and the old California Beach in Sesimbra, and that it comes from the "forno de cal" (ovens made of lime) made by the Romans and found on that beach. That's why they called the beach "California", for having ovens (forno) made of lime (cal) by the Romans. Not only the "cal" and "forno" exist, but the word "fornia" exists in Portuguese also. Also, there is a small river called "Ribeira da Califórnia" in Palmela village, 15 or 20km away from Sesimbra's California Beach. So in those two places, in less than 20km of distance, the old people already had those two names long before California being discovered, two times in the same place. The "Ribeira da California" is a very old location, but the beach is a tradition passed from father to sun generation after generation and has that name but I don't know for how much time. But California exists in Portugal long before California was ever discovered, like "Cuba" or "Canada".
--Crashh (talk) 02:14, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Fornalia

message: Support merge of Califas, but please merge only what can be referenced, otherwise just bring it here to the talk page. - Jmabel | Talk 05:51, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Califas merge

message: Would this be an accurate summary of the roots?:
Californo  in Sicily
Calafornina in Sicily
Calahorra, Spain
Matinino
Califerne
Califas
Califia
Calafia
Cali %28disambiguation%29
There are these quotes which seem to have been scribed on April Fools%27 Day:
Some suggest that the word California may signify that a place is "hot as an oven" (cali > hot, fornia > oven). It may be derived from caliente fornalia, Spanish for hot furnace, or it may come from calida fornax, Latin for hot climate.
These possibilities are mentioned in Etimología de California on etimologias.dechile.net; however, they are cited only as "Gracias: Maximiliano Mena Perez". Accessed 1 April 2006. They are also alluded to on the site of Centro de Investigación Científica y
Educación Superior de Ensenada:Baja California, accessed 1 April 2006. The site of the New Mexico State University, on its page on Field Ecology of Baja, states this etymology as fact, and cites it to "Zwinger, 1961", presumably A. Zwinger, A Desert Country Near the Sea: A Natural History of the Cape Region of Baja California New York: Harper and Row (1961).</ref>
Another possible source may be kali forno, an indigenous phrase meaning "high mountains".
According to the Chronology of California History (accessed 1 April 2006) on the site of Sons of the Revolution in California, Mexican priest Miguél Venegas put forth this theory in 1757.</ref>  There is no agreement among scholars.
< http://www.srcalifornia.com/cal-chron.htm >;
< http://www.srcalifornia.com/LeadPg3.htm >;
< http://www.srcalifornia.com/test-top.htm >.
Thank You.
[[ hopiakuta  | [[ %c2%a1 %c2%bf  %7e%7e%7e%7e  -]] 17:36, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Would this be an accurate [[summary]] of the roots?:

message: < http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Califas&diff=84338678&oldid=82111434 >.
This has been deleted, w/ very little discussion.
[[ hopiakuta  | [[ %c2%a1 %c2%bf  %7e%7e%7e%7e  -]] 15:13, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[califas]]

message: The Californian coast was first explored by a Portuguese sailor at the service of the Castillan crown (1594/1595 when Portugal was under Castilan rule of Philip II of Spain (Philip I of Portugal).  Roiz Soromenho (Sebastião Rodrigues Soromenho) was a native of Sesimbra, a fishing town 30 km south of Lisbon where there is a place (part of the Sesimbra sand beach) called California Beach.
Besides the lack of citation to anyone suggesting this as an origin:
# What is the even possible relevance of exploration by a Portuguese sailor decades after the name California had become established?
# Is there any evidence that the name "California Beach" in Sesimbra predates the California in the Americas? We've also had people pointing at a "California" in the UK which (unsurprisingly) dates from the 19th century. - Jmabel | Talk 23:16, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Soromenho

message: I have added a "" template to the article Califas, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but I don't believe it satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and I've explained why in the deletion notice (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy).  You may contest the proposed deletion by removing the  notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. FelisLeoTalk! 09:58, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Califas]]

message: The word "califa" (meaning "caliph") did not entered in Spanish until the 19th century (from French "calife"). Previously, Spanish language use the word "miramamolín" (from Arabian "amir al-mu'minim", prince of believers, a title inherent to caliphs). So I don't think California referred the Cordoba Caliphate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alcalaino  (talk • contribs) 09:49, 23 July 2007
:But even if the word califa (or an earlier borrowing from the same source) really did not exist in Spanish at the time (I'm not prepared to take your word on it, but just for the sake of the argument), California in Spanish could have come from Califerne in the Old French Song of Roland – which could itself be from calife –, as the article explains, obviating the need for califa or the like to exist in Spanish at the time. (BTW, the calida fornax idea is so obvious that it even occurred me as a child or teenager independently. I don't think it is true, however. The connection with North Africa makes much more sense, as black warrior women were reported to exist in Libya, i. e., North Africa, in ancient times, see Amazons.) --Florian Blaschke (talk) 14:47, 29 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Origin of the name

message: The supposed origin from calida fornax can be traced back to before Noticia de la California by Miguel Venegas (edited by Miguel del Barco) published in 1757 (see for instance a quote on pp. 419 - 420 in Narrative of a voyage round the world, during the years 1835,36, and 37 by William Ruschenberger where Venegas is sceptical to this idea). It is also mentioned by Francisco Javier Clavijero in 1789.
Thus it seems a bit out of place to imply that it came from "some astrologer" in 2008, as it does in the section Other origin theories...
--Episcophagus (talk) 00:43, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Calida fornax

message: This article states that Garci Rodríguez de Montalvo is the author who wrote the book for which The Californias were named, but then makes reference to Ordóñez de Montalvo.  I think these are intended to be the same person, but the article does not make that clear. I'm requesting someone with knowledge on the matter clarify this apparent discrepancy within the article? I have found sources that use the two different names, but I don't know why sources vary. It would be helpful if the article could explain that.  Thank you. OvertAnalyzer (talk) 00:35, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: For some reason Garci is known as Ordóñez, but many sources say this is incorrect. I added a reference to that name, but that article will still require further details on that surname. © Tbhotch™ (en-3). 03:59, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Garci Rodríguez de Montalvo vs Ordóñez de Montalvo

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: moved. I see a clear consensus that this article's topic is indeed the etymology of California. (closed by non-admin page mover) Lennart97 (talk) 08:20, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Origin of the name California →  – This is meant to match Etymology of Oregon; WP:PRECISE seems to apply in this case. Catchpoke (talk) 01:52, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

text: Completely false.  This page discusses etymology thoroughly as much as Etymology of Oregon. Catchpoke (talk) 21:18, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 6 July 2021 

message: (hot furnace) make since under California is what till you get to the exact opposite side of earth of Los Angeles. It will be where three plate tonic plates meet.? 47.149.13.36 (talk) 11:37, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  California is what on other side of earth.? 

message: "The same word in Spanish was califa, easily made into California to stand for "land of the caliph" خلیف, or Calafia to stand for "female caliph" خلیفة ."
This sentence is wrong. Normally when dealing with people in Arabic the ة at the end of the word indication the word is feminine. خلیفة "khalifa" is one of few exceptions to this rule. The word is masculine even tho it appears feminine. With the word خلیف, it really wouldn't mean anything and with خلیفة it would mean "land of the male caliph". 185.136.198.81 (talk) 19:07, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  wrong grammatical interpretation of the word califa