Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Paranormal/Archive 1

message: I think Wikipedia could use an all-purpose category for non-fiction writers who have specialized in paranormal and anomalous phenomena (eg, Jerome Clark, Troy Taylor, Loren Coleman, Jerry D. Coleman, William R. Corliss...), but I'm not sure what we should name it.  Would "Fortean writers" be okay? Zagalejo 05:11, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: New category proposal

message: I've located these radio shows:
:Coast To Coast AM
:Jeff Rense's radio show. Martial Law 23:03, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Websites are www.coasttocoastam.com and www.rense.com. Both radio shows deal with UFOs, aliens, and other paranormal related material. The Coast to Coast AM radio show is currently seeking guests to discuss all manner of bizarre and paranormal related matter. Martial Law 23:47, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, they'll let anyone on those shows.  Be careful about using them as a source; they've promoted a lot of known/suspected hoaxers. (Still entertaining, though.) Zagalejo 14:07, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not exactly. Art Bell and George Noory has tossed personnel, one for being incoherent. Martial Law 01:03, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

text: There hardly peer review, but they are the "pulse" of the paranormal community. ---J.Smith 17:50, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Radio shows

message: ::::The following is a website to "Psi Talk". This is Psi Talk homepage, which is about locating radio shows and/or stations that handle paranormal matters without the "Giggle Factor", officially sanctioned ridicule, that sort of thing. Martial Law 08:21, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Only problem is that the site allows spam, such as the usual mess seen on TV commercials, to come to YOU. Martial Law 08:24, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, watch for those "You have WON" scams. Do NOT mess with these @ all, unless you want a virus. Site itself is OK, the "Spam" is NOT. Use caution. Martial Law 08:29, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Online source of Radio shows....

message: I'm doing some redesigning. Feel free to revert anything I do or rearrange it in any way, as these are only friendly suggestions. --DanielCD 02:31, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Help

message: Need a WikiProject Banner, maybe one with a UFO or a Grey Alien ? Martial Law 02:24, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Need a WikiProject Banner

message: If the "Paranormal news" section has a wiki-purpose, it needs to be made more clear. Tuf-Kat 03:12, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It has and does. The first item is about a mainsteam newspaper which has done some UFO stories w/o the disrepect and the "Giggle Factor".  Martial Law 08:35, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The newspaper source may have new info for the UFO article. Martial Law 20:18, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "Paranormal news"

message: These comments are originally from the main page, I moved them here on the request of others - I still think they are highly relevant (and controversial, I know).
I think an important part of such a project is to establish consensus on how to report on supernatural phenomenon. How do the relevant articles currently look with regards to this and what wikipedia guidelines are relevant. I believe that phenomenon that go against our current understanding of the universe should be reported as "some believe/report" and that all (or some typical) evidence for and against should be written up with a note on why the scientific community does not believe the phenomenon - these matters are what I wanted to open a discussion on, I hope you find it important too.
In the spirit of honesty, I would like to ask the participants about their views on the paranormal and how they plan to/believe one should report on it. Lundse 15:37, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Aside from that, reporting of paranormal phenominon should not be done anywhere on wikipedia, as any information posted here must have verifiable sources. And, as above, we must be neutral on any subjects presented, by simply writing about what we can verify (and any verifiably held positions) as we have it. --InShaneee 19:35, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Reporting on the paranormal

message: I do have a question, about Apport.  Could it possibly be related to the experiences seen in twins, such as transmitted feeling (where one twin feels something, and the other does as well, even if miles away)?  Other than that, I'll see what I can find on the subject. ThirdEye 19:46, 21 March 2006 
Howdy. I'm super excited to be a part of a WikiProject on just an exciting topic. Kudos on getting this setup! One thing is stuck in my mind, however. How do we choose to differ between religious and supernatural? ProfMoriarty 00:04, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Quick Question

message: ::Note: My original title was Is "supernatural" the best term?. Someone else added the rest. Fuzzypeg 16:44, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Albert Einstein:  I believe in God, but I call God by the term "nature". StarHeart 22:42, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

text: There's a big difference between what is nature and what "scientists" are currently capable of explaining.  Once upon a time, to state that "the world is round" would have been a "supernatural" claim. StarHeart 22:42, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

text: You bring an interesting point. However, if I understand correctly, "supernatural" implies "separate from nature." I would presume this meant "nature as defined by science." If we recognize, as an encyclopedia that delivers unbiased and neutral information, that seperate from the definitions of science, an institution that definetly does not associate with the supernatural, does not equal invalid, I think we are okay. ProfMoriarty 18:01, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: 1. Supernatural literally means "beyond natural". 2. I would guess that the word "nature" is not precisely defined within any branch of science. That's the kind of definition that would be more likely (and more useful) within philosophy or metaphysics. 3. Occultists generally take the simplest approach and define nature as "everything", unless they believe in a transcendent deity – see my further comments below. The point remains that the term "supernatural" rankles with a lot of mystics and occultists because it implies fictitiousness. Fuzzypeg 16:44, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

text: I agreee that paranormal is the better term. Supernatural has connotations of "miracles", ie. things out of the order of the universe (which is really a nonsensical notion), and it implies that the universe has something "outside" it which can affect it (which is too POV, in my mind, and it is at odds with how many adherents of these beliefs view matters). Lundse 01:33, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The concept that the universe has something 'outside' of it which can affect it (normally God) is termed transcendence. It's actually quite common (most Christian churches follow this model), and provides an explanation of reality that allows miracles but also has laws of nature that don't allow miracles. This philosophical standpoint is not so helpful though, when it comes to actually interacting with this transcendent reality (God, whatever). Without going into a huge theological exegesis, suffice it to say that this philosophy is much less common amongst occultists. Fuzzypeg 16:44, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I know. I am an idealist myself, but still have huge problems with the notion (it either collapses to dualism or just plain collapses, IMHO). I would have thought a lot of occultists accepted it though, but then again, it does seem that holism (and hence moism) is the thing right now (which, oddly, aligns current science with current occultism...) I do think that most sciences (if not all) adhere to a (physical) monism, meaning that they define "nature" as "everything" (regarding your comment on it not being defined) Lundse 13:45, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is "supernatural" the best term?  No, "paranormal" is.

message: What is the scope of this project? How many ideas are you attempting to bring together? Are you interested in bringing things like Angels and Demons (mentioned elsewhere in the discussion page), Legendary Creatures, Ghosts, supernatural phenomenon, hauntings, ESP, telekinesis, etc? Or is it more focused on paranormal activity, or "real" experiences had by individuals?
Exodio 04:12, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm curious about that as well (and don't want to start tagging pages as 'project' pages until I'm sure). Anyone want to discuss? --InShaneee 18:52, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scope of Wikiproject Supernatural