Talk:Five Tibetan Rites

message: The the 'How to perform the exercises' section of this article is somewhat difficult to understand. Aghost 19:41, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: How-to

message: RE: Colonel Bradford returned to England after 23 years and looked younger. He was over 70 and looked like a 45 year old man – without his stick, youthful, agile, and his previously grey hair had turned dark.  According to whom? Edwardian 22:39, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, the original book was called "The Eye of Revelation" and was written by Peter Kelder in 1939.  It was updated in 1985 with the title "Ancient Secret of the Fountain of Youth".  [And still later, "Ancient Secret of the Fountain of Youth: Book 1".] Kilham's book is his interpretation of the exercises in Kelder's, from a more orthodox Yogic viewpoint. And the "near-miraculous rejuvanation" of Bradford is explicity written about in Kelder's books. -Rob, Jan 12th, 2006
A few comments to User:58.179.174.84's recent edits:
*While I agree that the rites are not original tibetan lore, we should be careful not to violate WP:NPOV by emphasizing it too much. For example, replacing the "some people believe..." part by "some Westerners fall into believing ..." sounds too strong.
*Please be more careful whether an s comes with an apostrophe or not (it's vs. its).
*I will re-add the alternate names, since they add information (and since I, at least, originally knew the rites by one of them).
Yours, --Huon 14:11, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

text: To the point from Kilham that "perhaps [the rites] came from Nepal or Northern India", the J M Watts edition of the Eye of Revelation explores that topic, and makes a plausible case that if the rites are "Tibetan," they are likely from an area of Tibet that's part of modern day India like Ladakh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladakh or Sikkim https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikkim, - or somewhere like Bhutan. These areas aren't part of modern Tibet (or pre-China Tibet), but they were of great interest to Britain in the historical period during which "Colonel Bradford" was allegedly working for the British in northern India. Lauchlanmack (talk) 12:29, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Bradford

message: The edits you deleted are verifiably true. They linked to other articles within wikipedia and also to Chris's quotes himself. To call the Lamas who laugh at this nonsense skeptics is a wild POV. Please go to Tibet before you start asserting this program to be Tibetan in origin. All printed materials promoting the Five Rites is Western in origin -- verifiably true. If you are truly looking for a NPOV you will work with facts. If you push me on this I'll just feel like including the even more damning information there is on the Five Rites, and I doubt that will serve your agenda. Blessings to you. 58.179.182.246 00:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: To recent vandal

message: *I removed the Yoga posture name associations from the Performing the exercises section of the article due to the fact that neither Kelder nor Colonel Bradford made any such association in "The Eye of Revelation" nor did they identify the Five Rites using the particular asana names as previously identified in the article. In fact, it was made clear that all Six Rites were simply called "Rite 1", "Rite 2", etc. To attribute the Rites with these named yoga asanas is original research and prohibited by Wikipedia.
*In the section of the article entitled The booklet revisions have been made in order to remain faithful to Kelder's work. Kelder never described the spinning centers in the body as vortices or chakras; he called them psychic vortexes. I adjusted the text accordingly. I also added in the location of the vortexes as originally described by Kelder. In the revised publishing which was renamed Ancient Secret of the Fountain of Youth, the editors changed Kelder's work by moving the locations of the vortexes to correspond with the location of the body's seven endocrine glands.71.63.18.205 (talk) 05:00, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Yoga posture names and Chakras

message: In formulating a re-wording -- I see that in the Peter Kelder book the posture depictions on page 33, along with the descriptions, are actually written of in the reverse order on the next page.
Page 34 goes into a more elaborate description - but confusingly explains the positions as in Wikipedia at present.
So - I see that the writer of the original section in Wikipedia has simply chosen the p.34 description, over the p.33 one. So -- I'll now not be altering the fifth rite on the Wikipadia page.
It's notable, though, that other writers describing the rites, do favour the description as in p.33
Of special note, and missing from the description as it stands, is an additional move (from page 33 of the Kelder book).
After the sagging stretch (cobra), and then upturned V posture, the instructions add.
"Hold this position for a brief moment and return to First position. After a moment of "hanging in suspension" perform the Rite over again."
The "hanging in suspension" part isn't adequately described however.
One would think that to 'perform the rite over again, one would have to be in a position other that a Position One posture, 
but there's no written clue as to what that would look like
Regards, AustallAustall (talk) 01:05, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  re Intention to re-word the fifth rite 

message: It's hard to credit that so much fuss is made of a system that has such a dubious origin.  There is no reliable evidence for the authenticity of this system of exercises.  There is no proper discussion as to who Peter Kelder is/was nor who "Colonel Bradford" might have been.  I have read Kelder's book and the whole thing just sounds like fantasy.  I can find no indication that the rites conform to any Tibetan discipline.  The whole thing is dubious.  I suspect that this has snowballed into a craze, that is eagerly promoted by those with a vested interest in making money out of another easy way to health and fitness.  I wish I could think of a suitable way of introducing this into the text.
:It is what it is. We don't have an original Tibetan source for the "rites". The western source is, as you say, a little dubious (I think the J M Watts's edition does the best job of analysing who "Colonel Bradford" might have been and whether the "Lamasery" might have been in one of the Tibetan speaking Indian Himalayan areas like Ladakh, which might be closer to the "proper discussion" you are seeking.). You can just decide to try it and see if it works for you, or not. Lauchlanmack (talk) 12:15, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Authenticity/Provenance 

message: Should the "Claimed benefits of performing the rites" part have some label reminding people Wikipedia does not give medical advice and to ask a professional? 95.244.232.22 (talk) 03:47, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Claimed benefits and medical advice