Talk:Shusha/Archive 1

message: Is this about Shusha or the khanate? The history section is way too long, needs retyping. Anyone willing to trim it a bit?Khosrow II 05:51, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we should actually move a large part of it to History of Shusha. What do you think? Khoikhoi 05:53, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I dont think thats necessary, we should just stick to the history of the city, it should be easy to trim. Lots of it talks about the background events which is really unnecessary. I dont know, we should wait for more input. Also, the sentence about the city's population decrease seems like a math example and not actual information. I have currently put that that the population was halved until someone can re word the origional sentence better. There also seems to be some edit warring going on, maybe Khoikhoi can help defuse the situation? If not, I guess I could do it, I dont have leaning between either the Armenian or Azeri view, so I think I could be neutral enough.Khosrow II 05:56, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If sources can be provided for the disputed claims, that would be good. As for the edit warring, the anon is currently blocked for 48 hours, but if they return, we could definately discuss things. Khoikhoi 06:02, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

text: BTW, I think it's more convenient for readers to mention briefly that the Qajars were of Turkic origin. This will help ignorant readers to know what groups were in the region back then. Khoikhoi 06:06, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

text: One last thing: I think that saying "present-day Azerbaijan" is a fair compromise, rather than saying "Azerbaijan" or not having it at all. Khoikhoi 06:10, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Fair enough. Grandmaster 06:14, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Khoikhoi, that makes no sense. Regarding the Qajar issue, people can click on the link. I have never read anywhere English speaking Americans, or French Persian speaking Achaemenids, etc... that makes no sense. Also, regarding the other edit, that makes no sense either. How can Shusha have been the largest city in present day Azerbaijan? Thats like saying that Tenochitclan (I know I spelled it wrong, but the Aztec capital) was the largest city in present day Mexico... makes no sense grammatically or historical. It just doesnt make any sense to say that...Khosrow II 15:42, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I never said they were Turkic-speaking, I said they were of Turkic origin, which is important info for the reasons I already stated. Why are you trying to hide this fact? Khoikhoi 16:04, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I know, I just meant in general, it doesnt make any sense. That is what Wikilinking is for. I'm not hiding any fact, however, saying that the Qajar's were Turkic (which they were) and that their families came from Shusha doesnt really say anything about the region...As Brittanica puts it, these khanates were Persian ruled anyway... should we put that in two? This is about the city.Khosrow II 16:11, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Karabakh khanate was nominally Persian ruled only during the reign of the founder of khanate Panakh-Ali khan, and completely independent during the reign of his son Ibrahim Khalil. Qajars were Turkic and they ruled not only Persia, but also Ganja and Karabakh. When they refused to support Nadir shah and remained loyal to Safavids, Nadir shah took Karabakh out of their control and subordinated it to the ruler of Iranian Azerbaijan. After this Panakh-Ali declared himself a khan of Karabakh, and was affirmed as such by the decree of Adil shah. But when Qajars came to power in Persia, they refused to recognize Ibrahim-Khalil as a ruler of Karabakh, as they supported their relatives in Ganja and insisted that Karabakh belonged to Ziyad-oglu clan of Qajars, who ruled Ganja. Since that time Karabakh khanate was independent from Persia and Qajar rulers several times invaded the region to subordinate the region to Iran, but failed each time. Eventually imperial Russia took the region over and eliminated the khanate. This story in much detail can be found in a number of sources, including Abbas-Kuli aga Bakikhanov, Mirza Jamal Javanshir, Mirza Adigezal bey and others. I can provide online links to Russian texts of those chronicles. Grandmaster 06:30, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Trimming