Talk:Traditional Chinese medicine/Archive 1

message: Please do not remove red links--I am working on them.  Thanks.  heidimo  22:36, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: Red Links

message: "Proponents of TCM claim that they can detect and manipulate these energies, but they can only demonstrate this to fellow believers. This is analagous to people who believe in God, and claim that they can detect God. In both cases, only believers agree, while no firm proof actually exists. 
: Actually this isn't true at all for most Chinese practitioners.  You sense an imbalance in yang and ying, by their effects.  i.e. fever, cold, patient feeling well, patient feeling awful.  You manipulate yang and ying by giving medicines. 
: One good western analogy is that of a calorie.  You can't extract a calorie from a food, and you can't see a calorie, but you can see a calorie from its effects.  Some foods are high in calories in much the same way some medicines are high in "yang".
: Careful not to generalize your views of Chinese medicine from the hippy-dippy aura folks you find in California.  -- User:Roadrunner
-	 	+	
-	Most doctors and scientists hold that people who claim to sense such energies are deceiving themselves with magical thinking"
The only people who have detected gravity are believers in it ;) Your argument makes no sense. Once people have verified something, they believe in it. If they successfully prove it to someone else, they necessarily believe in it as well. Those who don't believe in it clearly aren’t convinced. There is clearly a positive correlation between having seen proof, and belief in a certain concept. Obvious stuff here, lol. 
Most Doctors? What on earth? Have you seen a survey of "most doctors"? Do you have any idea of what % of earths doctors are Chinese? Or Indian? Or Malaysian? The ethnocentrism in your POV is shocking. Even if what you meant by "most doctors" was maybe "conventional medical wisdom among the physicians association of great Britain" or some such, I'd request a citation, and a clearer wording. But the suggestion that your musings amount to the opinions of "most doctors" seems dishearteningly unacademic to me
Jack 05:37, 1 Feb 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  what? 

message: This is also a very questionable statement....
::The validity of the principles on which TCM is believed by its practitioners to work has not been demonstrated by Western science. The form of energy known as Qi, for example, which is central to the theory of TCM, has never been detected by Western science. 
For example, the Chinese theory of diseases of the lung were that they were caused by "evil qi" which was inhaled by the patient.  That doesn't sound like it hasn't been demonstrated, and "evil qi" in this case can clearly been seen by a microscope.
Another situation would be a broken bone, a Chinese medicial practioner would feel the broken bone, say "your qi is out of balance" and through a series of manipulations bring your qi back into balance by setting the bone.
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Changed RK's edits, because they aren't true.  Yes, if you go to Chinatown, the TCM people their might whisper mumble-jumbo about qi being a special outside force.  If you go to China and talk to TCM practioners there, most won't. 
The problem here is that TCM occupies a *completely* different niche in China than it does in the West.  
User:Roadrunner
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I removed this:
In addition, Western practioners in TCM in contrast to those in China, are almost never licensed and are not required to undergo a rigourous academic program.  This allows practioners in the West to make extravagant claims that they would never do in China.
What is this saying?  To practice TCM in the West requires 3 or 4 years of intensive schooling and passing a board exam in order to get licensed.  Now, if you are an MD it is true you do not need training or licensing in TCM in order to perform TCM procedures, but I don't think that is what this phrase is saying.  Why do people keep posting outrageous lies to discredit TCM on the Wikipedia?  If TCM is really based on a bunch of woo-woo crap, then you shouldn't have to lie about it to make your point.  heidimo  17:54, 1 Feb 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: questionable statement