Talk:2000–2001 California electricity crisis

message: This is one of the worst, most biased, most poorly cited articles I've ever encountered on wikipedia.  It is a bit of a disgrace.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bkbroiler1981 (talk • contribs) 10:19, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Awful Article

message: To sit and read through hundreds of lines of text. Can someone please put together a more succinct introductory paragraph? I know there was a crisis, etc, but I do not have a month to sift through this article. Please write a clear introduction, though the chronology is very helpful, thank you for that at least. -- ZP in Phoenix, Ariz68.109.156.229 (talk) 20:15, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: I don't really have time for this

message: During my revisions of several other articles, I have found additional information about the California electricity crisis that I have added to this article.  Some of the information is duplicate information or simply phrasing of what has already been stated.  I've tried to reduce the repeat information and I will keep trying but I would greatly appeciate any help from other editors in this effort.  Thanks! calbear22 03:22, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Added content from other articles

message: I seriously revamped most of this article in January 2005. Also expanded it.
The most serious problem before revamping was the lack of any logic and a
disjointed structure. Neither the nature of the crisis nor its causes
were actually explained clearly. In case anyone is upset about the loss
of "their" piece, I retained most of the original text and ideas - but moved
them around so much that someone familiar with the previous article might
not find them. Open to discussion. Caravaca 18:44, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Revamping of Jan 2005

message: This is absoutle bias through and through, there is all this rubbish about no new power plants during the crisis, what about the fact that the power shortages started during the lowest usage time? Or perhaps that de-regulation as a whole is the cause of the problem? Or possible political motivations(Davis running in 2004)? In short watch Enron:the smartest guys in the room.
----
I don't know what "nonsense" the previous user "blanked", but the article as of today takes the POV that:
* California's changes to the electricity market were in no way to blame for the crisis
* Bush should have helped, but refused for no good reason
* Republicans were to blame
I don't think this is an objective look at the situation. Other analyses paint different pictures.
We should investigate a bit more, so we can report WHOSE IDEA it was to force utilities to "divest" themselves of their power generation plants. And WHAT BENEFITS these advocates claimed would accrue to rate-payers or others.
We should not bury the opposing POV in one short sentence at the end of the 3rd or 4th paragraph.
An alternative POV about the restructuring of California's electricity market is that:
* it was doomed from the start, because it continued to regulate retail rates but not wholesale rates
* it was not a case of "deregulation" at all
* it was an experiment in socialism which failed, as in the Soviet Union where shoes and toilet paper always had low prices (but were rarely available)
This is one of the most biased articles I've ever seen at Wikipedia, and I've been here over 2 years! --Uncle Ed 19:42, 5 Jan 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Ed, I really have no idea what you are talking about, if you read the article, it clearly lays blame for the crisis at the hands of a partial deregulation (i.e. dereg of wholesale but not retail).  There were shenanigans on the part of the private sector as well, which were enabled by the partial deregulation.  To get more into WHOSE IDEA, the utilities lobbied the legislature and it passed unanimously I believe.  Steve Peace, the legislator who wrote/sponsored the law, I suppose could be blamed (coincidentally, he also brought the world Attack of the Killer Tomatoes.), but he hardly acted alone.  Bush didn't bail them out, isn't that a good thing? dml 04:26, 6 Jan 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ed, the blame for the crisis lies with the failure of the legislators to deregulate, or rather re-regulate, the electricity market properly, the utilities for cutting a high risk deal to preserve their postion on stranded assets, the problems associated with environmental approvals for new transmission and generating plant, the rise in the price of gas, the drought in the northern catchment areas, the venal behaviour of some energy traders, the failure of the state to react properly to the crisis, the inappropriate intervention when it occurred and the lack of understanding by most of the parties as to the risks they were running in going ahead with the reforms.  
I agree with you that the crap about Republican conspiracy should be removed and I have transferred the offending paras to here as they add nothing to the sum of human knowledge about what actually happened, but may be of interest to future editors:Tiles 05:42, 6 Jan 2004 (UTC)

text: Trying to shift the blame solely to the Democrats is just as disingenuous as placing the blame solely on the Republicans in the first place. Both parties deserved blame: Gore defender in Bush v. Gore, David Boies, actually represented Fastow in November 2003 and George W. Bush's largest campaign contributor in 2000 was Enron c/o Ken Lay, so there's plenty of blame to go around. However, the California energy crisis was bigger than the typical age-old red vs. blue, donkeys vs. elephants, right vs. left, liberal vs. conservative debate. It was about greedy, opportunistic CEOs and a herd of obedient, equally greedy and opportunistic jackals and underlings, RAPED the richest, most prosperous state in the Union, just because they COULD, all in the pretext of "deregulation". The whole episode was a window into the ugly side of greed, indifference and ignorance. Ericster08 (talk) 03:26, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: POV Dispute of Nov 2009

message: I took a quick look at these articles:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2001/03/20/national1227EST0568.DTL
http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/03/19/california.blackout.02/
http://www.iasa.ca/ED_news_LosAngelesTimes/LAtimes09.html
http://news.com.com/Rolling+power+blackouts+darken+California/2100-1017_3-251091.html
..and added the dates I saw for rolling blackouts.  There may have been other dates.  Certainly, there were other important events in the crisis that should be added to the timeline.  Please feel free to do so.
These URLs might also be added as external links, though some of them may represent copyright violations, so perhaps there are better sources.
--Beland 01:48, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Timeline of crisis, rolling blackouts, etc. 

message: Did he really say that he "inherited" the problem? I thought he advocated the bill which he signed - the one which restructured the electicrity generation industry in such a way that retail prices were capped (the article says "regulated", but this is vague) while wholesale prices were allowed to soar (the article says "deregulated").
I don't see any point more important than the disconnect between capping 'retail' prices while allowing wholesale prices to exceed them! How could Davis not know this would happen? Didn't he read the bill before signing it?
I'm not advocating anything here, but I wish this article would shed light on these questions. Uncle Ed 03:37, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Role of Governor Davis

message: This article really needs a desciption of why the crisis ended.  Note that the crisis peaked during spring, prior to the peak summer electricity usage -- a fact that an adequate explaination needs to address.   Paul Krugman's described one possible reason here .  I assume there are other views that need to be described also. -- Cjensen 00:53, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: One source says that Enron's bankruptcy ended the problem. In fact, when Enron went bankrupt and "suddenly" and "coincidentally" prices got back to normal, first suspicions about Enron began to circulate. This factoid needs more confirmation, however. Caravaca 18:09, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not many serious economists think price controls lead to long term solutions. Especially in this case, since price controls may have actually caused this crisis. Enron was simply responding the the incentives created by government regulations. BTW, Krugman did not win the Nobel prize in price controls, or energy trading.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.193.61.178 (talk) 06:49, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: End of crisis

message: The last paragraph in this section seems to just repeat several points made in the preceding paragraphs without adding or expanding on anything.  This might be better deleted. 
Sdpurdy 03:33, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Regulation and Deregulation

message: I think a lot of people are unclear as to how power markets actually work.  An article or series of articles describing how power is generated and procured would help a lot.  I believe there are twelve regions in North America under NERC.
I added more concise explanation in "Causes" section. In nutshell, price regulation created shortage of supply which provided ample opportunity of market manipulation. Vapour  —Preceding comment was added at 12:45, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Power Markets 

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thread_title: Image copyright problem with Image:Enron Logo.svg

message: I'd like to clarify the who and what of the so-called deregulation. 
Who called the new rules "deregulation"? 
What parts of California's electricity industry were released from government control, and what parts came under greater government control?
Is there any public dispute over whether the new regulations increased or decreased government control? (By "public" I mean outside of this talk page, of course! :-) 
And has there been any public dispute or controversy over whether the new regulations were a good idea? If so, we should report this discussion. For example:
*British economist Rob Inhood predicted the new laws would make electricity more plentiful and affordable for the average Californian resident.
*Kiep Itfrei, of the Danish Society, said the requirements were self-contradictory and would lead to economic disaster.
Note that I made up some funny names so no one would google for them. We need real sources; I'm just making suggestions of form. --Uncle Ed (talk) 14:07, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Be that as it may, the changes in the rules were widely depicted as deregulaiton, including by its proponents. While it's valid to point out that regulations still existed, and that the degree of deregulation is debatable, deleting the word "deregulation" from the article entirely would be incorrect.   Will Beback  talk   18:25, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Meaning of deregulation

message: *For many critics of the bill, the focus frequently returns to Peace, who played a significant role in the 1996 legislation deregulating California's electric utilities. "So now the father of deregulation has an even better idea. He's going to save our San Diego air system," the [San Diego Unified Port District]'s [Peter] JanopaulJanopaul said. "It's bad enough that deregulation failed." Peace has insisted repeatedly he was not the driving force behind deregulation.
**Port steps up fight against legislation for airport authority; [1,2,3 Edition] Ronald W. Powell and Philip J. LaVelle. The San Diego Union - Tribune. San Diego, Calif.: Sep 9, 2001. pg. A
*[Peace] oversaw hundreds of hours of negotiations on energy deregulation now etched in Capitol lore as the "Steve Peace Death March."
**NEWSMAKER PROFILE / Steve Peace / Davis' finance chief skilled at raising hell / Brash ex-senator a bold pick; [FINAL Edition] Mark Martin. San Francisco Chronicle. San Francisco, Calif.: Dec 22, 2002. pg. A.1
* And state Sen. Steve Peace, the El Cajon Democrat, the architect of deregulation, was getting the kilowatts beaten out of him. People phoned his office to gripe. They shouted at him in airports. He gave up the idea of running for secretary of state; in his own town they said he couldn't get elected dog catcher.
**INSIDE POLITICS; More Psychic Than Miss Cleo--at Least on Enron; [Home Edition] PATT MORRISON. Los Angeles Times. Los Angeles, Calif.: Feb 11, 2002. pg. B.2
*Yes, you read that right: Steve Peace, author of the 1996 deregulation bill. Peace approached energy deregulation with such passion and command of the details that his marathon negotiating sessions became known as the "Steve Peace Death March." The bill eventually breezed through both houses without a dissenting vote. Peace contends that the deregulation scheme is not to blame for the debacle that is costing the state many billions of dollars. UPSHOT: By all accounts, Steve Peace is a policy wonk who has few peers when it comes to mastery of budget matters. Still, does Davis really think the father of energy deregulation is the one to lead the state out of a $35 billion budget mess?.
**POLITICAL WATCH / WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE?; [FINAL Edition] San Francisco Chronicle. San Francisco, Calif.: Dec 24, 2002. pg. A.14
*As a politician who has made a career out of rushing in where others fear to tread, state Sen. Steve Peace (D-Chula Vista) took the lead in shaping the state's effort to deregulate the electricity industry. Now the plan is a fiasco, and Peace's political future is in doubt... But Alpert and Davis were only bit players in deregulation, compared to Peace, considered the father of the 1996 bill, someone that his colleagues looked to for expertise about the complexities of the energy business.
**California and the West; POWER PLAYERS: Key figures in California's energy crisis; Prospects Dark for Deregulation Architect; Power crisis: Sen. Steve Peace had considered a run for secretary of state. But some experts say his political career is all but over.; [Home Edition] TONY PERRY. Los Angeles Times. Los Angeles, Calif.: Jan 3, 2001. pg. A.3
*Sen. Steve Peace (D-El Cajon), who led the Legislature's 1996 drive to deregulate electricity, ...
**California and the West; Lawmakers Contending With Power Crisis Have Holdings in Electric Firms; [Home Edition] RONE TEMPEST, MIGUEL BUSTILLO. Los Angeles Times. Los Angeles, Calif.: Jan 8, 2001. pg. A.3
*The outcome has all but ended the political career of another legislator, Sen. Steve Peace of San Diego County. Peace, who was chairman of the Assembly-Senate conference committee that crafted the bill, has become known as the architect of electricity deregulation. He has dropped plans to run for statewide office and is hardly involved, at least in public, as the Legislature grapples with the crisis.
**Deregulation bill author unscathed; [HOME Edition] Daniel Weintraub. Daily Breeze. Torrance, Calif.: Feb 1, 2001. pg. B.5
*Peace, of course, is best known as the father of California electricity deregulation.
**Big Hang-Up With BofA; [FINAL Edition] Adam T. Saracevic. San Francisco Chronicle. San Francisco, Calif.: Mar 4, 2001. pg. B.2
*As late as 1999, Freeman wrote to state Sen. Steve Peace, D-La Mesa, the father of deregulation, and spoke of his "good faith effort to (have the DWP) join the ISO," which is the acronym for the California Independent System Operator, one of the two entities created in energy deregulation.
**DWP'S FREEMAN SHOULD REMEMBER HIS DUTY TO L.A.; [VALLEY Edition] Nate Holden. Daily News. Los Angeles, Calif.: Apr 2, 2001. pg. N.11
*Fair or not, Sen. Steve Peace has become known as the "father" of California's electricity deregulation law. For that he has had to endure unending heat from colleagues, consumers and constituents.
**Grillings are common fare for bureaucrats Series: howard.0513; [1 Edition] John Howard. Orange County Register. Santa Ana, Calif.: May 13, 2001. pg. Cal
*Peace eventually worked his way back into Brown's good graces, and won election to the Senate, where he worked on what would become California's disastrous deregulation plan....Peace, frequently and wrongly identified as the originator of deregulation, was ridiculed by San Diegans, whose utility bills doubled....
**The State; State Crisis Will Test Finance Chief's Theory; Steve Peace has written that a budget emergency would be a great chance to reform government.; [HOME EDITION] Nancy Vogel. Los Angeles Times. Los Angeles, Calif.: Dec 22, 2002. pg. A.1
So Peace has often been called the "father" or "architect" of California's deregulation bill, even though defenders say he was just trying to make it a better bill.   Will Beback  talk   18:25, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: "Father of deregulation"

message: Since greed fueled by deregulation was the only cause of financial crisis related to energy crisis, so there should be a detailed paragraph on the role of Republican Governor Pete Wilson's deregulation policy. Also there is no mention of Davis turned down by Bush when he requested federal help.
Vinnie (talk) 22:31, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Role of Governor Pete Wilson 

message: POV, OR, tone, ref-improve.
===Enron Trader Tapes===
The 2004 release of transcripts of taped conversations among Enron electricity traders in the summer of 2001 revealed that company insiders not only knew they were stealing from California and other states, but gloated about it. The release of thousands of hours of tapes was a powerful indictment of the energy companies that looted California and Washington of close to $11 billion.
At a time when streets in Northern California were lit only by head lights, factories shut down and families were trapped in elevators, Enron energy traders laughed:
"Just cut 'em off. They're so fucked. They should just bring back fucking horses and carriages, fucking lamps, fucking kerosene lamps."
In another tape a trader laughed when describing his reaction when a business owner complained about high energy prices:
“I just looked at him. I said, ‘Move.’ (laughter) The guy was like horrified. I go, ‘Look, don’t take it the wrong way. Move. It isn’t getting fixed anytime soon.”
When a forest fire shut down a major power line into California, cutting down power supplies and raising prices, Enron energy traders were heard laughing and celebrating, singing ‘burn, baby, burn.’
During the winter of 2000, electricity loads were drastically lower than summer due to, among other things, the lack of need for air conditioning. The capacity for energy production in California was nearly four times what was actually used. Still, the rolling blackouts continued. Traders became very creative in finding ways to cut the supply of electricity (generally during peak usage hours or when assistance of maintenance was unavailable), such as in the following conversation at Enron (between traders Rich and Bill):
Bill: "This is gonna be a word of mouth kinda thing, tonight, when you finish your normal queue, when you get ready for tomorrow, I want you guys to get a little creative and come up with a reason to go down [referring to shutting down the turbines].
Rich: "Ok"
Bill: "Is there anything you want to do over there?"
Rich: "Um yeah, there is some stuff we could be doing tonight"
Bill: "Thats good"
Rich: "Um, we need to come down and inspect this switch on the steam turbine, um this one switch on the induction steam valve has been failing us, we need to be down to pull the switch and adjust it"
Bill: "No shit"
Rich: "yeah, and our electrician has to be on shift today so that works out real good"
Regularly, phone calls were made directly to the power plants asking the supervisors to shut down during peak use hours, as in the following conversation:
Trader: “If you took down the steamer [from a generating unit], how long would it take to get it back up?”
Supervisor: “Oh, it’s not something you want to just be turning on and off every hour. Let’s put it that way,” another says.
Trader: “Well, why don’t you just go ahead and shut her down.”
Soon afterward, the following conversation took place by another two Enron traders. It appears to acknowledge that Enron executives were involved in the trading, were aware of the illegality of it, and were involved in covering it up.
Trader 3: "This guy from the Wall Street Journal calls me up a little bit ago..."
Trader 4: "I wouldn't do it, because first of all you'd have to tell 'em a lot of lies because if you told the truth..."
Trader 3: "I'd get in trouble."
Trader 4: "You'd get in trouble."
Another conversation went as such:
Trader 1: “They’re fucking taking all the money back from you guys? All the money you guys stole from those poor grandmothers in California?”
Trader 2: "Yeah, Grandma Millie man. But she’s the one who couldn’t figure out how to fucking vote on the butterfly ballot."
[Laughing from both sides]
Trader 1: "Yeah, now she wants her fucking money back for all the power you've charged right up, jammed right up her ass for fucking $250 a megawatt hour."
[Harder Laughing]
In an Aug. 4, 2000, conversation, Enron trading executives John Lavorato and Tim Belden discussed a dispute involving traders who worked for Lavorato. The two Enron executives appeared to acknowledge the illegality of the trading.Los Angeles Times, Business, February 04, 2005
Lavorato: “I’m just, ah fuck, I’m just trying to be an honest camper, so I only go to jail once.”
Belden: “Well, there you go. At least in only one country. (Laughs.)”
Lavorato: “Yeah, [unknown] this isn’t a joke”
--ends--
:Rich Farmbrough, 21:17, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Tapes

message: The 2004 release of transcripts of taped conversations among Enron electricity traders in the summer of 2001 revealed that company insiders not only knew they were stealing from California and other states, but gloated about it. The release of thousands of hours of tapes was a powerful indictment of the energy companies that looted California and Washington of close to $11 billion.
At a time when streets in Northern California were lit only by head lights, factories shut down and families were trapped in elevators, Enron energy traders laughed:
"Just cut 'em off. They're so fucked. They should just bring back fucking horses and carriages, fucking lamps, fucking kerosene lamps."
In another tape a trader laughed when describing his reaction when a business owner complained about high energy prices:
“I just looked at him. I said, ‘Move.’ (laughter) The guy was like horrified. I go, ‘Look, don’t take it the wrong way. Move. It isn’t getting fixed anytime soon.”
When a forest fire shut down a major power line into California, cutting down power supplies and raising prices, Enron energy traders were heard laughing and celebrating, singing ‘burn, baby, burn.’
During the winter of 2000, electricity loads were drastically lower than summer due to, among other things, the lack of need for air conditioning. The capacity for energy production in California was nearly four times what was actually used. Still, the rolling blackouts continued. Traders became very creative in finding ways to cut the supply of electricity (generally during peak usage hours or when assistance of maintenance was unavailable), such as in the following conversation at Enron (between traders Rich and Bill):
Bill: "This is gonna be a word of mouth kinda thing, tonight, when you finish your normal queue, when you get ready for tomorrow, I want you guys to get a little creative and come up with a reason to go down [referring to shutting down the turbines].
Rich: "Ok"
Bill: "Is there anything you want to do over there?"
Rich: "Um yeah, there is some stuff we could be doing tonight"
Bill: "Thats good"
Rich: "Um, we need to come down and inspect this switch on the steam turbine, um this one switch on the induction steam valve has been failing us, we need to be down to pull the switch and adjust it"
Bill: "No shit"
Rich: "yeah, and our electrician has to be on shift today so that works out real good"
Regularly, phone calls were made directly to the power plants asking the supervisors to shut down during peak use hours, as in the following conversation:
Trader: “If you took down the steamer [from a generating unit], how long would it take to get it back up?”
Supervisor: “Oh, it’s not something you want to just be turning on and off every hour. Let’s put it that way,” another says.
Trader: “Well, why don’t you just go ahead and shut her down.”
Soon afterward, the following conversation took place by another two Enron traders. It appears to acknowledge that Enron executives were involved in the trading, were aware of the illegality of it, and were involved in covering it up.
Trader 3: "This guy from the Wall Street Journal calls me up a little bit ago..."
Trader 4: "I wouldn't do it, because first of all you'd have to tell 'em a lot of lies because if you told the truth..."
Trader 3: "I'd get in trouble."
Trader 4: "You'd get in trouble."
Another conversation went as such:
Trader 1: “They’re fucking taking all the money back from you guys? All the money you guys stole from those poor grandmothers in California?”
Trader 2: "Yeah, Grandma Millie man. But she’s the one who couldn’t figure out how to fucking vote on the butterfly ballot."
[Laughing from both sides]
Trader 1: "Yeah, now she wants her fucking money back for all the power you've charged right up, jammed right up her ass for fucking $250 a megawatt hour."
[Harder Laughing]
In an Aug. 4, 2000, conversation, Enron trading executives John Lavorato and Tim Belden discussed a dispute involving traders who worked for Lavorato. The two Enron executives appeared to acknowledge the illegality of the trading.Los Angeles Times, Business, February 04, 2005
Lavorato: “I’m just, ah fuck, I’m just trying to be an honest camper, so I only go to jail once.”
Belden: “Well, there you go. At least in only one country. (Laughs.)”
Lavorato: “Yeah, [unknown] this isn’t a joke”
--ends--
:Rich Farmbrough, 21:17, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Enron Trader Tapes

message: The article is in the category of "George W. Bush administration controversies" but there is not one mention of the Bush Administration in the article except indirectly. There needs to be more direct info on the administration response to the crisis including their statements regarding the crisis, their response to Gov. Davis' request for assistance from the administration, and so fourth. If your going to have an article listed under the category of "George W. Bush administration controversies" then I should be able to search the page for Bush and have at least one use of the word come up in the main body of the article. The Clinton administration is mentioned in the article so why is the Bush administration absent? It seems almost as if the article is trying to whitewash the controversy over the Bush Administration's handling of the crisis. --Cab88 (talk) 08:17, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  No mention of the Bush administration?! 

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message: I was watching Enron: The Smartest Guys In The Room documentary, and I cannot recall who started this epidemic. Was it Enron, California authorities, etc.???  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.216.220.101 (talk) 13:12, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  WHO started this situation in the first place? 

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message: This section needs significant re-write.  It is largely unsourced and has pretty clear POV issues.  The quote offered initially does not appear anywhere in the cited link, even in paraphrase.  I'll take a stab at a coherent re-write, but might need to parse out the info into other sections and delete this section if there isn't enough to warrant it by itself.  
Squatch347 (talk) 17:37, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Enron Section