Talk:Population decline

message: Support merger. These two articles are trying to treat the same subject.  The Underpopulation article tends to bear a POV.  Merging can help reconcile the very legitimate point made by erikhaugen above. Joan-of-arc 17:48, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed merger

message: Could use votes to save this article, thanks MapleTree 22:33, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[List of doomsday scenarios]]

message: The following user comment and content was removed from the article:
"==Material moved from overpopulation==
someone had placed the following text in the overpopulation article. it was misleading in that article to emphasize the relatively small population declines compared to the large growth in other lesser developed countries. the material may be useful here:
* During 2005-2050, the net number of international migrants to more developed regions is projected to be 98 million.  Because deaths are projected to exceed births in the more developed regions by 73 million during 2005-2050, population growth in those regions will largely be due to international migration.
*  In 2000-2005, net migration in 28 countries either prevented population decline or doubled at least the contribution of natural increase (births minus deaths) to population growth.  These countries include Austria, Canada, Croatia, Denmark, Germany, Italy, Portugal, Qatar, Singapore, Spain, Sweden, United Arab Emirates and United Kingdom.  Cdcdoc 06:44, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  User comment in article 

message: From this specific paragraph, -- The population of former Soviet Republics, with the exception of Muslim majority nations and oil rich Azerbaijan, is falling due to health factors and low replacement. Much of Eastern Europe has lost population due to migration to Western Europe. In Eastern Europe and Russia, natality fell abruptly after the end of Socialism. -- I removed the Socialism at the end and replaced it with Communism. 
According to modern political science, Socialism is a system of economy. Many still confuse it with communism which is a combinaiton of a system of rule, oligarchy, and a system of economy, socialism. Casimiri 07:19, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Socialism is not Communism

message: the map is wrong, because germany suffers population decline and SA not.!!!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Johnny-bollock-rotten (talk • contribs) 12:37, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  map 

message: Article is a bit unbalanced at the moment, needs coverage of efforts to bring about population decline (NPG, population environment connection, etc.)  Zodon (talk) 20:42, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree, and how is it possible to discuss the effects of population decline without including the environment?  Environmentally, the best/easiest thing we can do is to reduce the number of humans (talking family planning here, nothing nefarious) to reduce the carbon footprint - we would decrease use of natural resources, decrease waste, pollution, have more open space for plants and animals, reduce world hunger, etc. 130.253.126.17 (talk) 22:59, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Needs coverage of efforts to bring about population decline 

message: The culture of contraception, more than anything else, is what decreases fertilities. Contraceptive sex actively displaces reproductive sex because it hinders the development of taste for family life. People get the idea that sex need not have any result, so that puts sex in a vacuum and makes family life limited or non-existent. These facts need to be in article. I'm currently looking for hard info that relates contraception to decreased fertilities. I may add something later on. If not, anyone else may. 74.195.16.39 (talk) 17:53, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Needs coverage of causes of population decline 

message: So, what is the truth about South Africa? Is the population increasing or decreasing? It is increasing thanks to immigration from neighbor nations like Mozambique and Zimbawe....or is it decreasing as a consequence of AIDS?--83.35.180.179 (talk) 03:55, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  South Africa 

message: Currently the table entry for the cause of decline in Russia is "more deaths than births". Seems a bit vague...Ordinary Person (talk) 04:51, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Russia should be removed from the list as its population has returned to growth. LokiiT (talk) 18:48, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Cause of decline in Russia

message: The replacement rate is the rate necessary for parents to replace themselves in the population. It is not fertility greater than mortality. Thus, you can have replacement rate level fertility and have population growth if you have an unstable age distribution with few old and many young. This is the case for most countries that are in the middle of the demographic transition at the moment and have just achieved low fertility.
You can also have population decline at replacement rate fertility if you have an unstable age distribution as a baby boom reaches the age of mortality. This is the case in the US right now. 
Most of the mentions of replacement rate in the article are really referring to fertility below the rate of mortality, or fertility less that what is required for zero population growth. It is not clear if these are also below the replacement rate of fertility. 
These are major misuses of demographic terminology. Someone should fix this.
Avram Primack (talk) 04:30, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article confuses replacement rate fertility with zero population growth 

message: The decline of the Roman empire is often said to have been partly a result of low-fertility on the part of the patrician classes.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.166.169.236 (talk) 19:57, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Can we include something about theRoman empire? 

message: Table:1 Population Decline in Percent by Country (from various sources)
Country  	Year	Population 	% natural decrease	Main reason for decrease            	% decline by 2050
Bulgaria 	2009	7,704,687  	0.79              	declining births and life expectancy	34.93
Estonia  	2009	1,299,371  	0.632             	declining births                    	33.25
Latvia   	2009	2,231,503  	0.614             	declining births and life expectancy	30.38
Japan    	2009	127,078,679	0.191             	declining births                    	26.13
Ukraine  	2009	45,700,395 	0.632             	declining births and life expectancy	26.07
Russia   	2009	141,927,297	0.177             	declining life expectancy           	21.67
Lithuania	2009	3,555,179  	0.279             	declining births and life expectancy	21.37
Slovenia 	2009	2,005,692  	0.113             	                                    	20.28
Belarus  	2009	9,648,533  	0.378             	declining births and life expectancy	19.5
Poland   	2009	38,482,919 	0.047             	declining births                    	16.58
'Suggering this paragraph before Long term population decline'
Understanding the Decline
Europe’s population has declined drastically and rapidly over the last fifty years. There are various reason why, starting with the multiple financial situations of families or single mothers now face. Low income influences low fertility rate because raising children is expensive. As a result there is a decreasing in the size of families large to smaller ones in Europe. Another major influence on low fertility rates is change in some European economies, leaving families uncertain in their future financial situations and the decision one the correct time to have children. This regulates the size of families and in some cases couples decide to not have children all together. These changes in equilibrium does not go unnoticed, the fluctuation in the European population has cause its damage, and will continue to if changes does not take place immediately. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ebony SHUwrite (talk • contribs) 17:28, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Add to table, per www.un.org/esa/population/unpop ... % decline 2010 / estimated 2050 population 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: On the advice of Makael Haggstrom, I propose that the section Economic consequences be split into a separate page called Economic consequences of population decline. The content of the current page is too large, and, as the comments above make clear, is in need of a re-write. A draft of the new article is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Economic_consequences_of_population_decline.  If this is acceptable to everyone I will summarize the existing section (Economic consequences) and complete the split. 
Joe Bfsplk (talk) 15:26, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Splitting proposal 

message: This section is a little un-focused. The first sentence is about child-bearing; the second sentence is about reasons for the population decline of the former Soviet Union, (which is no longer true); and the remainder, starting with "... governments can influence ..." should be moved to the section "National efforts to reduce population decline". I propose to replace this section with a new section that covers the single topic of changing trends in population growth. You can find the draft at (link deleted) 
(talk) 18:53, 15 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Changing trends 

message: For this section I propose changing the title to "Long term future trends" and adding charts and numbers to show what the UN and others are saying about the future.
You can find the draft here: (link deleted)
Joe Bfsplk (talk) 20:45, 13 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Long term trends 

message: This section makes some valid points but the discussion should be expanded to describe other policy options that are now being examined in the literature.  So, I propose to split out an article, to become this section's main article, called "National efforts to confront declining populations".  You will find the draft here: (link deleted) 
If this draft is acceptable to everyone I will summarize the existing section (National efforts ...) and complete the split. Joe Bfsplk (talk) 21:56, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Should be changed to Efforts to reverse declining populations.  ToddGrande (talk) 01:46, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  National efforts to reverse declining populations 

message: I propose to merge the ideas in this section into the main body of this article.  Both paragraphs in this section have something to offer, but previous editors have taken issue with both.  My intention is to include the ideas here in such a way as to be acceptable to all.  The draft of the changes I propose is here: (link deleted)  The history of edits that produced the draft starts April 22, 2020.   Let us know what you think. Joe Bfsplk (talk) 23:07, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Interpretation of statistical data 

message: Soumya-8974 inserted a hat note (May 10) suggesting that this article include information about Population decline caused by COVID-19 pandemic. At this point this virus has claimed about 370,000 lives world-wide on a global population of about 7.8 billion.  So far, then, this virus has caused a short-term population shock of about -0.005%.  The “Causes” section lists disease as one cause of short-term shocks with an example of the Black Death.  The Black Death claimed 75-200 million lives on a global population of maybe 500 million [] at that time.
We could add COVID-19 to the list, but I think that the article already has three good examples.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joe Bfsplk (talk • contribs) 16:50, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: It's probably well past time to add it, given that despite the fact that its effects are relatively small (5 million reported, 12 million estimated), it also caused a severe shock to the world's fertility rate, and then apparently is also causing a small rebound. There's no need to say anything definitive about its long-term effects, but its short-term ones are apparent. It's becoming quite noticeable that every population page's references only go up to February 2020. SilverbackNet talk 04:33, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

text: The COVID – 19 pandemic is mentioned further down in this section, and I have added your comment on fertility. Joe Bfsplk (talk) 17:12, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  COVID-19 

message: I would suggest an update of the lead.
According to the Wikipedia manual of style, “The lead serves as an introduction to the article and a summary of its most important contents.”  The current version is mostly a statement of possible positive and negative impacts of population decline; but leaves out the long-term projections of population change and national efforts to confront the projected population decline, both of which are covered at length in the article. Plus, about half of the current lead is a list of pluses from population decline; the lead must be a summary.
 
The style manual also instructs that “…significant information should not appear in the lead if it is not covered in the remainder of the article.”  The term “Shrink and Prosper” does not appear in this article.  Furthermore, the term is the title of chapter 13 of the book “Countdown” by Alan Weisman.  I did not find the term in the body of that chapter, nor have I found any other reference or use of the term. It might be a nice expression of the possible positive effect of a declining population, but I don’t think it meets the Wikipedia criteria for an acceptable reference.
 
A draft of a revised lead is here. (link deleted). Let us know what you think.
Joe Bfsplk (talk) 14:48, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Lead 

message: I've removed the two countries listed with a high abortion rate because there's no quantification of a high abortion rate, no mention of abortion anywhere in the article and no consistency - Romania and Ukraine were considered high whereas Georgia, Bulgaria, Hungary, Spain and Estonia have higher or comparable rates both per woman and per live birth according to Eurostat. Ocram (talk) 17:57, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  High abortion rate 

message: "contraception and abortion in the 20th and 21st centuries reduced the world's population by around 5.5 billion" the source for this is in Polish, help? Matthewmorrone1 (talk) 23:25, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  5.5 billion?!? 

message: An anonymous user deleted over 1,000 bytes worth of info yesterday (15/10/23) only providing the description “ Thank goodness for god”. I believe this is vandalism, if anyone could contact support to get this reverted id be great.
Cheers. Ace Lad22 (talk) 17:58, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible vandalism