Talk:Norman Davies

message: Norman Davies has at least two sons: article mentions only Daniel - what about Christian, his second son? The sources might not mention him (he's about 23-25 yo) becouse they are not up to date, but the guy exists - in fact i've met him and he resembles his father quite much.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.205.254.68 (talk) 10:49, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Personal info

message: He can't have been born in Bolton and in Wales, so I've assumed Bolton. Deb 17:14, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Quite possible, I just used two source (one Polish) and translated parts of it for quick stub, so there are bound to be some errors. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 17:58, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

text: I will let a United Kingdom-er :D sort that one out, I don't feel qualified :) And please, sing your post, dear anonim(s). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 15:34, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, The Isles states he was born in Bolton, but his name's Welsh and he certainly seems to feel Welsh.  In his history of Europe, he inserts the phrase Cymru am byth (Wales Forever) after a mention of the Brythonic languages.  When he discusses names of places in different languages, he ends by saying 'For them it is Oxford, or even Niu-Jin: for us, forever Rhydychen.' (p. 88) That's the Welsh name for the city, by the way. garik 23:28, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Old talk

message: I think this book should be deleted from the list of publications as it seems to be by Edwin Jones, not Norman Davies (unless he had some input/co-authorship that i'm not aware of)
I've just looked on Amazon and he did have some input, he wrote the forword to the book.
: When I was adding those books, I just typed in Norman Davies on Amazon and added to Wiki what I saw there. If you are sure it is only a forward, them yes, this can be deleted.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 15:33, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  The English Nation: The Great Myth 

message: I have moved unreferenced addition by anon to talk. I don't think he would pass notability criteria, however.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  21:18, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Another famous Norman Davies?

message: God's Playground thats the book you are refernig to and that is the place to write about its contents. If you want to write about censorship in general than edit this article: Censorship. Cheers 77.253.65.24 (talk) 08:34, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Gods Playground

message: I have absolutely no horse in this race, but I can tell you that I talked with Norman Davies about this page when I was at a conference a few months ago, and he explicitly stated that he sees himself as Anglo-Welsh. I don't know how much closer to the spirit of the man you can get.  Just my .02.  Bubble07 (talk) 20:43, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Good enough for me. Kudos for bringing it up with him and clarifying it. Historian932 (talk) 01:28, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Anglo-Welsh

message: I removed a section that refuted Davies' thesis for two reasons: it violated NPOV, and it was written like an informal aside after someone had said something controversial.  I removed the paragraph and noted that the book was "controversial."  I really don't have a side in this, but that kind of counter-Davies commentary would be more appropriate for an article about Britishness or the history of the United Kingdom.  An article about the scholar should present his work in a fair manner, not vet his work for truth or present a more balanced view.  The article is about the man and what he's said/written, not British historiography.  That said, someone could do a better job than I did of noting exactly why it's controversial, perhaps with an extra sentence.  It doesn't deserve an entire paragraph. Yale2010 (talk) 20:49, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with removal, it was unreferenced editorializing. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  19:22, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: <i>The Isles</i> Controversy

message: Just came across this after reading the bio on his homepage and thought it should be mentioned here:
"NB. Please pay no attention to unauthorised entries on the Internet, particularly Wikipedia. It is not true that Norman Davies has been knighted, although a mistaken leader in the Guardian did once report that non-fact."
I didn't see anything in the article about Davies being knighted so it must have already been removed. -- œ™ 02:03, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Davies not knighted 

message: Well, it's their loss, not his.
In any case, why he would have wanted to live in that benighted land is beyond me, unless to bring a little enlightenment to it.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.134.67.209 (talk) 18:30, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stanford thing 

message: What is the MOS for titles after the name in the lede? Can somebody link me to that guideline. I usually stay on my side of the pond for bios, but I have been dabbling a bit lately. Cheers, --Malerooster (talk) 11:31, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Titles after name 

message: Fellows of the Royal Historical Society, D – F" (MSWord). Retrieved 3 August 2008. - document not found. --Hnsjrgnweis 11:28, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference no. 14 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: In "Rising 44", Davies either removed Polish last names, leaving only the first letters, or replaced them with non-Polish pseudo-equivalents, sometimes weird and offensive (e.g. branding the commander of the Warsaw Rising, Bor-Komorowski, as "Boor"). He explained he had to do that at the insistence of the publisher and as a condition for the book publication. And also suggesting the Polish language indeed is an incompatible one. To back the last assertion, he gave a quote from novelist Dickens (19th century) on Polish language - contrary-to-facts, ignorant, xenophobic, simply stupid. I'm no enemy of Davies, I know what he's gone through  trying to counter Polonophobia in English-language historiography, but what I'm sharing is also true as regards him. Cutting out Polish names, including those of Warsaw Uprising fighters, but leaving intact the foreign names, including the names of German militarymen of Polish origin (e.g. Bach Zelewski), is really really bad. Actually Polonophobic. Even the Prussians during the Partitions, even the Nazis didn't act so. The Poles have kept silent on this shocking insult from a figure who is supposed to be the top-notch foreign Polonophile. The silence (timid and in order not to cause waves) is simply wrong. Some more things of this kind can be said of Davies. Finally, in "The Isles", Davies is a fervid defender of the "Celtic" languages, including Welsh, against the supposed English aggression and discrimination....  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.50.175.234 (talk) 19:53, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  RE POLISH NAME CONTROVERSY IN "RISING 44" 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Basically the section looks balanced, mentioning both criticism and answers. However there are some sloppy phrasing:
*"They accuse him of minimising historic antisemitism, and of promoting an idea that academic views of the Holocaust in international historiography largely overlook the suffering of non-Jewish Poles"
*: "Accusing of minimizing" is correct part (regardless validity of accusation). However "accusing <...> of promoting an idea" is illogical: he does promote this idea and there is nothing inherently wrong with the idea of overlooking something (as opposed to statement, e.g, "promoting the idea of Nazism"). Therefore this sentence must be split in two, with the second one clarifying why "the idea ... overlook" is criticizable. 
Staszek Lem (talk) 21:20, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I have seen him described as a "polophile" in several sources, e.g. "norman+davies"+polophile&source=bl&ots=iAJX0aJgC9&sig=knTu_fFBHpb0nzX7RyUDPZwZBWQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwim76Wn6MXbAhUMLFAKHdY9BZ8Q6AEwAXoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q="norman%20davies"%20polophile&f=false.Icewhiz (talk) 05:10, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortunately in many cases it is formulated as an insult/accusation. Staszek Lem (talk) 15:31, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Criticism section restored

message: Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 theory of Davies, Honeywell computer remote hijacking and hiding in Antarctica ice, must be present because Davies told his theory in a published book, interviews, and in media listings of conspiracy theories of MH370 he is always listed:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12191656
https://www.deccanchronicle.com/lifestyle/viral-and-trending/040518/7-conspiracy-theories-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-disappearance.html
https://www.theweek.co.uk/mh370/58037/mh370-conspiracy-theories-what-happened-to-the-missing-plane
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-magazine-interview-the-historian-norman-davies-on-conspiracy-theories-the-cold-war-and-his-own-spy-novel-past-8s86qwnpm?wgu=270525_54264_15765170745608_5154128985&wgexpiry=1584293074&utm_source=planit&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_content=22278
:Interesting but WP:UNDUE/WP:FRINGE here, plus potential WP:BLP issues. Best start an article about the book, such content would be more due in it than here. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 05:00, 18 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  MH370 conspiracy theory  

message: Davies' theories of Holocaust Studies being directed by Israeli embassy in 1974 must be in article because Davies wrote them in book and received national media attention to his claims:
https://polandin.com/44733436/british-historian-unveils-how-antipolish-holocaust-narrative-was-initiated
https://www.polskieradio.pl/395/7785/Artykul/2380023,Academics-were-told-to-call-Poles-%e2%80%98bystanders%e2%80%99-of-Holocaust-historian
https://wiadomosci.dziennik.pl/opinie/artykuly/609563,norman-davies-historia-holokaust-zydzi-polacy-ii-wojna-swiatowa-niemcy-hitlerowcy.html  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Teutonic Mouse (talk • contribs) 06:47, 17 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting but WP:UNDUE/WP:FRINGE here, plus potential WP:BLP issues. Best start an article about the book, such content would be more due in it than here. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 05:00, 18 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Theories on Holocaust Studies 

message: The article says he is Welsh-Polish. He is not Polish. Marrying a Polish person does not make you Polish. 86.175.77.249 (talk) 15:17, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: This source explains that Davies received Polish citizenship from President Bronislaw Komorowski in July 2014. But I don't see why he's described as "Welsh". He was born in Bolton, and being "of Welsh descent" doesn't make one Welsh. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:18, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not Polish 

message: Norman Davies: Vanished Kingdoms: the History of Half-forgotten Europe, Allen Lane, 2011 should be included in the list of published books by this author  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Peter Bavington (talk • contribs) 15:31, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another book 

message: I want to change this page
Carletteyt (talk) 20:07, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: What did you have in mind? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:36, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 March 2022 

message: And the "politics" section that stands in its place lacks context. For example, it has a quote from Davies saying, "Holocaust scholars need have no fears that rational comparisons might threaten that uniqueness." But that doesn't make any sense without a paragraphing mentioning that Holocaust scholars *have* criticized his comparisons of the Holocaust to other tragedies as making an incomparable evil seem like it was not unique in type but only magnitude.
There are so many questions I have about Davies that this article brushes over. I know he has critics, so who are the people who disagree with him? What is up with his need to "correct the record" publicly by starting that Russia alone defeated Hitler and the Allies played only minor roles? Why did he sue Stanford when they refused him tenure? What is up with his weird claim that Poland was "set up" to take the blame for the Holocaust? Why did he become a Polish citizen? Why is he so upset about Churchill's telling of WWII, which is not a dominant strain of history? Is it because he was taught it as truth when he was growing up in post-WWII England? 
Without a proper controversies section, this page feels whitewashed to omit any criticism.
B9 (talk) 02:20, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  The section on controversies is missing