Talk:James Mitose

message: (01/06/2006) The following simply needs to be removed:
"Perhaps in Japan he trained with Seiko Fujita ( astudent of Choki Motobu's, among others) in something called Koga Ryu. Perhaps he was never in Japan; or perhaps he was but received no martial arts training there, instead training with Mizuho Mutsu and/or Thomas Miyashiro in either 1932 or during the years 1937-1942. The facts on him are in dispute."
This is "William Durbin's" revisionist history.  There is nothing to support this claim of a link to Koga Ryu Ninjutsu, or the possibility of him learning anything at all from Seiko Fujita.  This is nothing more than a theory, therefore, should not be includes in such an article.
I completely agree
User5802 07:13, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Koga Ryu and William Durbin's Seiko Fujita 

message: I hereby request that someone who knows Wikipedia rules and English grammar clean up this article.  As the previous poster commented, it has become a fight on the article page and a sourced document on the talk page (instead of the other way around).  It is hard to understand because of its poor grammar, and focuses on colloquialisms to describe controversy in a condescending and defensive way.  So whoever you are, if you have any gift for English style and grammar, or for academic sourcing (Wikipedian or otherwise), please make this article legit.  The same goes for this discussion page, which can't evoke discussion until it's organized.-Mrcolj 14:27, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Cleanup

message: The following "There is some doubt about the credibility of Mitose's claims regarding his kenpo training, however, research posted here verifies much of what Mitose claimed." It doesn't provide primary data.  It is an editorial which is presumably based on data which a person would have to dig through an entire site to find.  It would be better if direct quotes were taken from the site and appropriately cited.
Regarding the Al Tracy comment about "no Mitose, no Kempo", having read the page where he states that, its an opinion embedded in the middle of some pretty far fetched claims which aren't well supported.  Again, instead of an editorial (whether from Tracy or someone else), let's focus on hard and fast data.  I just don't believe that there should be room in an encyclopedia article for an editorial. 24.164.94.116 19:54, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Al Tracy comment

message: Added some info on people who had contact with Mitose in prison, including his son and grandson who are carrying on the tradition of Kosho-shorei as a family art.  I put up hyperlinks hoping someone else who has more info on these men will add articles on them.
The source material is page VII of "What is True Self Defense?" by James Mitose, also called "True and Pure Karate and Kenpo," as well as information from Thomas Mitose's website.
Can you give a proper cite to the material (perhaps APA)?  If you need any help, post the information here and I or someone else would be glad to help.
What do you mean by APA?  I have a copy of the book, so I will cite it however you wish.  The information about the masters came from page VII, the Acknowledgements Page of the book, and on that page, Mitose refers to them by those titles.  Thomas Mitose's website can be found at www.kosho-ryu.com.
You have a copy of the book?  I've been trying to get my hands on it for awhile.  APA is here.  Note that I'm not saying that it is required (I didn't use it in my references, though I probably should have), only that it would be nice.  Along with it, quoting the text in the book rather than summarizing it for each point that you are using it to support would be nice.  It should be done in such a way that a person can read what you said the text says, be directed directly to the text, and be, beyond debate, unable to say "it doesn't say that".  Verifying and citing should be the bones of any article on Wikipedia. 198.97.67.59 16:53, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is True Self Defense? 

message: Probably would be good to mention John Chow-Hoon in this article.
He was William Chow's brother and also studied under James Mitose, before being ranked as a 10th Dan in Kosho Ryu Kenpo and Jujitsu. Frank Chow probably also studied under Mitose.
Not sure if Mitose promoted John Chow-Hoon to any rank. More than likely William Chow probably ranked him as a Shodan in Kenpo.
* John Chow-Hoon
User5802 07:12, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  John Chow-Hoon 

message: James Mitose mentioned in A Chronological History of the Martial Arts and Combative Sports 1940-now Article, Electronic Journals of Martial Arts and Sciences
::"Masayoshi "James" Mitose, a Japanese-educated Japanese American ("Kibei"), starts teaching a Japanese martial art at Honolulu’s Beretania Mission. Mitose called his style kenpo jujitsu ("fist law jujutsu"), and wrote in his 1953 book, What is Self Defense, that the art was hundreds of years old. Like many of Mitose’s claims, this has not been externally documented, and photos show something that looks suspiciously like karate. Anyway, between 1942 and 1953, Mitose promoted six students to 1-dan. Among these was William K.S. Chow, who actually trained under Mitose’s student Thomas Young. In 1944, Chow started his own class at the Nuuanu YMCA, and in 1949, Chow began calling his methods "kenpo karate." Chow continued teaching kenpo karate (though not always by that name) until his death in 1987, and his better-known students included Adrianao Emperado, Ed Parker, Bill Chun, Ralph Castro, and much later, Sam Kuoha."  User5802 21:02, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reliable source on James Mitose 

message: Deleted the references to Nippon Shorin Ryu Kenpo and Mr. Vaughn.  They were advertisements.209.159.44.242 (talk) 20:54, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deletions 

message: Although he is perhaps a well known martial artist, there is no mention of him ever studying with Mitose or studying Mitose's art on his (Suenaka's) bio page.  I think that placing him on this page under notable students of Mitose is fraudulent.  Dave  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.228.87.82 (talk) 18:56, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Roy Suenaka 

message: I don't want to open a can of worms about the proper spelling of "ke(m/n)po", but most people spell it with an N, and Juchnik's line spells it with an M.  So the Kosho Shorei section should spell it with an M.  --Mrcolj (talk) 23:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: 拳法 is romanized in several ways. "Kempo" is the Hepburn romanization but failing to use a macron to indicate the long vowel. "Kenpō" is the preferred wiki romanization. I would use "kempo" only in an official title or name (such as Kosho Shorei-ryū Kempo) and use "kenpō" as the generic term through the article. jmcw (talk) 08:57, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spelling should vary 

message: I deleted a paragraph that has valuable information, but is totally grammatically incoherent.  Anyone is welcome to rewrite it and re-insert it, or integrate the information therein in some capacity.  But 1) July 25 has no year, 2) there is no source, nor possible source extant, that William Chow didn't know the martial arts, 3) the author says Chow is obviously untrustworthy because he said the last time he saw Ed Parker, Parker had a purple belt, 4) Emperado said via hearsay that Chow taught Mitose and Mitose's a master instructor, therefore we're supposed to accept that Chow's equal to Mitose.  Cf. the following:
"Jim Perkins, interviewing Chow in an article published in the July 25 issue of Black Belt magazine on page 36, quotes him as saying, "my father('s) my teacher, not Mitose!"  However, William Chow's father did not know or practice martial arts.  In the same article, Chow went on to say that Ed Parker was only a purple belt when he left him, so the credibility of Chow's comments are at least questionable.  Adriano Emperado has stated that William Chow taught what James Mitose taught, and that Mitose was a "master instructor."
--Mrcolj (talk) 00:10, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Incoherent paragraph about William Chow 

message: Just passing though I noticed that perhaps it may be a little bit difficult for Mitose, who "returned to the United States on February 25, 1937," to have begun "teaching Kempo in Hawaii in 1936." 
I don't know anything about this man really, so if someone who does would like to clarify that I'm sure it would be helpful.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hobbes007450 (talk • contribs) 08:21, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Hawaii was an insular area until 1959. jmcw (talk) 11:16, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Dates

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified