Talk:Wives of Muhammad

message: The section "List of Muhammad's wives and children" is completely unnecessary for the following reasons:
*A list of the prophet's wives is available on the right hand side as part of the template.
*His children should be mentioned where the wife is being mentioned.
*Information regarding the tribe, status before marriage, age, motive etc. is/should be provided in the "history" section.
*"Motive" is a very complex and contentious section. For many marriages scholars disagree on the proper motive, and thus I don't see any concise way of listing this.
Bless sins (talk) 17:27, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I can second that.--Tigeroo (talk) 16:23, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  List 

message: * Mohammad's wives, Mohammed's wives, Muhammed's wives, Mahomet's wives
* Wives of Mohammad, Wives of Mohammed, Wives of Muhammed, Wives of Mahomet
: 70.55.88.176 (talk) 06:50, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  missing redirects 

message: That section is a very special one, so I have not been able to insert one important book of Fatima Mernissi. "Her most famous book, as an Islamic feminist, The Veil and the Male Elite: A Feminist Interpretation of Islam, is a quasi-historical study of role of the wives of Muhammad. It was first published in French in 1987, and translated into English in 1991." See for further information .
would somebody technically more skillfull please insert it?
:Austerlitz -- 88.75.72.6 (talk) 10:06, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: This article is titled Mohammed's wives however just a couple are mentioned - surely the rest should be in here and material not relevant to this title should be stripped out - what do people think?
:I've added titles to indicate where marriages are, some random insertions have been made so that a couple of wives are treated twice at different points in the prose. I think a summary list or table with the first name, full name, tribe, previous status (married, widowed, infant, etc.), year of birth, year of marriage and year of death would be good; it could also include a brief "notable for" statement, e.g.:
::Safiya: Safiya bint Huyai of the Jewish tribes Quraizi and Banu Nadir, married to Kinana treasurer of Khaibar beheaded on the day Muhammad took her; born ?, married to Muhammad at 17, died ?; notable as a Jew, the wife of a murdered captive and because Muhammad violated his own Koranic injunction  by marrying a widow before 4 months after her husband was tortured and killed (at Muhammad's behest), indeed he married her immediately.
:Something like that for each wife would be most helpful, the rest could probably then be spun off to the articles on the individual wives unless they are general statements. Pbhj (talk) 14:47, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Surely all the wives of Mohammed should be in this article?

message: Some of the citations are quite poorly made. For example the F E Peters citations just says "FE Peters 2003" but the page on Peters shows he wrote at least 3 books that year - which is this referring too. We can't verify that the prose is supported which means someone must either find another citation or obtain all the books and try to see which was intended. The Esposito reference is as bad. Please try to be clear: usually the full citation is given including title of the work and where it can be found (eg ISBN or URL); subsequent references can be e.g. "ibid Peters (2003)". WP:CITET for info about citation formats. Pbhj (talk) 14:18, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Poorly cited - please be clear with citations 

message: I find the headings confusing, sometimes just the name others Married to <name>, can we be consistent.
Also, Is it ordered chronologically? should the date of marriage be placed(if known) or date range.--Paul Lewison (talk) 04:59, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Formatting  and structure 

message: Hello,
"All but two of his marriages were contracted after the Hijra (migration to Medina)."
This is not clear or even useful information,since the list identifies only one (I know the second being Aisha, hence the word contracted) but this makes it like rocket science.
"The verse's interpretation mandated that Muslims were forbidden to marry Muhammad's widows and should regard them as they would their own mothers."
Which verse?--Paul Lewison (talk) 05:11, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Summary needs cleanup 

message: The introduction of the article seems to contradict the article and the list on the side when it comes to Muhammad's wives. It says in the very beginning of the article that Muhammad had eleven wives, when the box listing all his wifes most certainly mentions 13 different names. The article itself also mentions more than 11 wives. I don't have very much knowledge on the subject (that's why I came here in the first place), but this contradiction leaves me with more questions than answers. Are the eleven mentioned wives certain, and the other two debatable? Some other sites would agree that there are eleven wives, and wouldn't include Maria al-Qibbitiyya or Rayhana bint Zayd. Although reading their respective articles gives the impression that there's conflict in regards to their relationship with Muhammad, it's hard to see what I should make of this.
When it comes to concrete changes, I suggest mentioning early on, that in addition to his eleven wives, there are two other women that may or may not have been his wife, and that there's uncertainty regarding their relationship. If that is the case of course. Like I said, I didn't really grasp the way things are by reading this article.Benjaminsf (talk) 19:30, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: My knowledge in this topic is limited, but I think you're generally right. I think saying "11 or 13" in the lead should be the best possible option. In any case, the article, and some of the sources mentioned, seem to be merely an attempt at creating a consistent narrative of the subject. The traditional sources contain many contradictory accounts about it, so using the "or" here shouldn't be a problem. Wiqi(55) 20:36, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

text: The first line says 12 but the box on the right shows 13 including Zaynab bint Khuzayma and the section Muhammad's wives#Hafsa bint Umar and Zaynab bint Khuzayma also mentions her. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 12:05, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number of wives 

message: * Discussion moved here from User talk:Cuchullain
I do not understand why you keep reverting my edit to this page. Your right that the onus is on me to justify my edit - and that is exactly what I did - "it's innacurate/un-encyclopaedic to call a girl a woman", which is what the current text says. Please stop reverting perfectly reasonable edits, and focus on making this article more encyclopedic Santa Suit (talk) 15:31, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Per the preferred bold, revert, discuss method of editing, you need to discuss your controverted change on the article talk page. Please do this.--Cúchullain t/c 15:35, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Many people invoke BDR when really their motivation is to preserve a form of text which they personally find agreeable. I'm sure you have your reasons, but the issue here is too clear cut to warrant BRD. Quite simply it is not factual to write that "Muhammad married eleven or thirteen women" because he did not. One was not a woman, she was a girl. This description is not open to debate or discussion; it's not a matter of opinion upon which concessus can be sought - there is no middle road here - a young girl cannot be described as a woman. The Muhammad's wives article is not good and clearly has POV issues running through it. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and your primary motivator should be to make this article more encyclopedic. Santa Suit (talk) 16:03, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: That is my primary motivation. Again, take your concerns to the talk page.--Cúchullain t/c 16:16, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: If that were true, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Santa Suit (talk) 18:30, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Nonsense. We're having this discussion because you feel strongly about your edit but won't discuss it on the talk page, as is the standard practice.--Cúchullain t/c 18:55, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

text: The text says "Muhammad married eleven or thirteen women" - which indicates they were all women when he married them. This isn't just a matter of semantics, and it isn't a case of 'forcing' anything in; the point is noteworthy and the wording, as it stands, is not factual. Santa Suit (talk) 13:58, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Muhammad's wives 

message: its better if there should be mentioned about the reasons why prophet married the izwaj  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alijamal14 (talk • contribs) 21:42, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with you - this would be really interesting! Unfortunately, it is not practicable. Contemporary observers did not give reasons why Muhammad married these various wives; they simply recorded that he did marry them. Most of the suggested reasons come from non-scholars who are not so much researching as guessing according to bias ("He did it to give homes to poor and elderly widows"; "he did it out of lust for beautiful teenagers"). The few serious historians who have suggested reasons (only their opinions, of course; this kind of thing cannot be proved) all contradict one another. If you have access to the opinions of these serious scholars, by all means insert and source them. My suspicion is, however, that this matter has never been properly investigated. It's certainly a Ph.D. project for someone.Petra MacDonald 05:45, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  reasons of marriage  

message: Moved here from the article:
Wiki writes in the section titled "Aisha bint Abu Bakr": Child marriage was common in some cultures, including Western Christian countries until fairly recently. For example, in as late as 1880, the majority of those making laws in the United States agreed that a person who was ten years old was old enough to consent to sexual relations. Since children and women were still property at that time, the father would be the one consenting to this act which may be against her will. This is only a single year older than Aisha was when she consummated her marriage to Muhammad more than 1200 years earlier.[21][22]
Yet, by clicking on footnote #22 from above, this is what is written:
By 1880, the first date chosen, many western nations had established an age of consent for the first time, typically of 12 or 13 years. By 1920, when the influence of reform campaigns that established a new link between the age of consent and prostitution had run its course, most had revised their age upward, to 14 or 15 in European nations, and 16 in the Anglo-American world. 
Obviously the two accounts do not match. Moral equivalency much? Additionally the comment "1200 years earlier" needs to be corrected. It is now 2012.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Annemalcolm (talk • contribs) 22:33, 23 June 2012
:Thanks for pointing that out. I have removed that section per your comment, and also because, even the statement had matched the cited reference, it would have been violating Wikipedia's guidelines about original research and neutrality. Regards, HaeB (talk) 08:34, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comment left in article 

message: I have removed the following narration because its not relevant to this article: 
Saffiyah says, "I was my father's and my uncle's favorite child. When the Messenger of Allah came to Madinah and stayed at Quba, my parents went to him at night and when they looked disconcerted and worn out. I received them cheerfully but to my surprise no one of them turned to me. They were so grieved that they did not feel my presence. I heard my uncle, Abu Yasir, saying to my father, 'Is it really him?' He said, 'Yes, by Allah'. My uncle said: 'Can you recognize him and confirm this?' He said, 'Yes'. My uncle said, 'How do you feel towards him?' He said, 'By Allah I shall be his enemy as long as I live.'" Reference: Ibn Hisham, As-Sirah an-Nabawiyyah, vol. 2, pp. 257-258
This narration isn't about Safiyya or about her relationship to Muhammad. It's something Safiyya narrates. Aisha, for example, has hundreds of narrations and they all can't be mentioned in this article.Bless sins (talk) 20:15, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Narration removed

message: I wanted to make clear that those Narrations from the Sahih Bukhari are false and that Aisha s age at the Marriage were not 6-9Years as they claimed,but 20-23Years of age!
The Bakhris narrated that the Prophet married Aisha ,while she was between﻿ 6 or 9 years old(as they claim).It is recommended not to believe in the creditibility of this Narration from the Sahih al Bukhari[24],because if it is narrated that she was already betrothed to Jubayr ibn Mut'im before the marriage with the Prophet of Islam.How old was she,when she was engaged by Jubayr ibn Mut'im then?3-4Years of age?And if we factor in the date in which she died, and her age we can conclude that she was around the age of 20, because her marriage to the Prophet was before the Hijrah.[Refer to Al-Ma`rif le Ibn Qutayba, Pg. 59] [25]. Ibn Hajr has also narrated, from Abi Na`eem about 'Asma bint Abu Bakr -- the sister of Aisha -- that was born 27 years before the Hijra of the Holy Prophet.This would mean that Aisha was about 20﻿ years old, when the Messenger of Allah married her (since it has been narrated that 'Asma is about 10 years older then Aisha)[Refer to Al-`Esabi le Ibn Hajr, Vol. 8, Pg. 15] [26]. From these sources we can conclude that the Prophet had married Aisha and she had already passed the age of puberty, and maturity.Meaning she was not a child at the age of 6 or 9 as she claims in the narrations present.When the Messenger of Allah married Aisha, Abu Bakr said: I﻿ was about to marry her to Jubyar son of Mut'im, let me ask them for permission. He asked permission from them, and divorced Aisha from Jubayr ibn Mut'im, and the Messenger of Allah then married her.[Al-Tabi'qaat Al-Kobra le Ibn Sa`d, Vol.7, Pg.59]. [27]. So, from this we can see that Aisha was married (engaged), and then she divorced then married again (from the Messenger of Allah). This also shows us that she did reach an age of maturity, and she had passed puberty, and that she was not a child. Looking at the narrations, Abu Bakr said that 'He gave her to Jubyar', and at the time of Jahilliyyah, they would not wait for intercourse if they were married, for it would be an act done.If we look at Aisha's biography we see she had innovated in her life time,it is to notice that she was never patient meaning it is possible to expect from Aisha that she did lose her virginity. In conclusion,that she married the Prophet while she﻿ was not a virgin, by looking at verses of the Holy Qur'an whilst marrying the Prophet. Some sources prove that Aisha was 19-20 Years Old,when the Prophet married her.Tahdheeb al asma of Nawawi Vol.2 Page 329 [28]Biography of Asma daughter of Abu Bakr Sister of Aisha.Asma was 10 Years older then Aisha and﻿ Hafeez Abi Na'eeem says:Asma was born 27 Years before the Migration of the Messenger of Allah.According to this and other sources,Asma the older Sister was 10 Years older then Aisha,Asma was born 27 Years before the migration of the Hijra,so Aisha was 17 Years old in the Year of the Migration.Aisha were Married from the Prophet in the second Year of the Migration,when she was about 20 Years old.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by MoAzrael (talk • contribs) 17:10, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  About Mohammads Wife Aisha and her Real age at the Marriage! 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018) 

message: I have a suggestion for supplementing the chart image. One with text (since blind people can read text using tech, but not images) which has columns listing the year of the marriage, Muhammad's age at that year, the birth year of the wife, and the wife's age at that year.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.51.193.44 (talk) 18:57, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: timeline

message: I have just noticed that the dates in the infobox of the Muhammad article do not concur with the diagrammatic timeline in this article. I know that there is not certainty about all dates, but it would be good if someone has the time to cross-check the evidence here and in the other article so that they concur as far as is able to determine from sources. Where uncertain, the date should be prefixed by "c." as per MOS:CIRCA. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 11:08, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Dates of marriages and timeline

message: "This timeline has been challenged by a number of scholars in modern times."
Something written before 1000 CE isn't "in modern times" by any usual measure. And neither is something written by one person "challenged by a _number of scholars_" --jae (talk) 09:33, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point. There's better developed content on this question in the main article, which I've just used to improve this one. Eperoton (talk) 02:43, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aisha bint Abu Bakr and "challenged in modern times" 

message: To anyone who is reading this
Aisha married 19 not 9 according to many authentic scholars (For example Zakir Naik) as she was able to write 2000 hadiths (2010 to be exact) and could make logical debates as well!
If it even were to be nine (6 or 7 is UNAUTHENTIC), Women used to mature faster in the deserts and in the olden times and their appearance would look like a teen. 
Please do not spread false information about Aisha
Thank you.— Preceding unsigned comment added by ALRALR (talk • contribs) 21:31, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Like your edits to the article page, your comments are totally unsourced and contradict the multiple references you keep deleting.In addition, please sign all posts on talk pages (but NOT in articles) with 4 tildes ( ~~~~ ) which will add your signature and a timestamp -  Arjayay (talk) 21:39, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

text: All evidence points to between 6 and 7 years of age. 71.59.196.190 (talk) 01:01, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  She married when she was 19 not 9 as:  

message: Please remove the word concubine 182.191.34.99 (talk) 06:03, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wives of Holy Prophet 

message: Mariyah: slave girl/concubine or wife? Please Present a few references well before correcting the data. Ripon talukder1000 (talk) 10:14, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mariyah: slave girl/concubine or wife? 

message: Ibjaja055 (talk) 10:15, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rayhana (Wife or concubine) 

message: 121.6.31.145 (talk) 13:47, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  described ambiguity – small jars tc 20:59, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 12 February 2023 

message: Plz fact check stop 🛑 spreading wrong information if u fear who ever your God is 99.60.82.169 (talk) 22:35, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plz fact check why is the page not delivering facts 10 wife’s after Bibi Khadijah and in list we have e13 wife’s nothing about his kids plz give right info  

message: I am unable to find any reference about Her being widow before Her marriage with Last Prophet May Peace be upon Him. Please enlighten the general public with valuable and irrefutable data... Much Obliged. ZafarAbbasMir (talk) 08:56, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please Give Reference about Um Al momineen Bibi Khadija of being 'a Widow' at the time of her Marriage.. 

message: the prophet wasn't granted unlimited wife as a section of this Wikipedia says he was said to not have more than he already has 103.214.61.142 (talk) 19:59, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wifes of the prophet