Talk:Blackbird (software)

message: A previous version of this article was deleted (see the debate).  A new version has been written from scratch which addresses the issues of verifiability and reliable sources expressed in that debate. I am satisfied that this product meets WP:SOFTWARE, and that the article is suitably neutral despite the involvement of User:Stephen B Streater, who is involved wiht the product. This article is not eligible for speedy as repost. Just zis Guy you know? 11:53, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: The intro mentions FORscene waaay too many times. Also, it looks a bit choppy and 4 and 5 references for a couple lines seems a bit excessive. Fresheneesz 19:51, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. I've diluted the FORscene mentions, but the references are there as a reaction to the last AfD. Stephen B Streater 20:15, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Choppy intro

message: I'm working on a prototype FORscene article here. I have started to include some information about the video and audio codecs used in FORscene. This could also mention the video codec used in FORlive, which is now deprecated in FORscene, and also FORtune. In fact, I'd welcome any constructive comments and edits prior to deletion review. I am keen to err on the side of too much information rather than too little, as it is easier for me to add content and find references and for other editors to trim it than vice versa. Stephen B Streater 10:55, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That looks pretty good.  You might want to trim the See Also list a bit, since things like Java and web application are already linked in the article text.  I was a little confused by the upload section, since you list 3 operating systems separately, and I was under the impression that this is done with java and a web browser and is basically the same on each platform.  Also the server section is confusing - do you sell servers or only usage of your servers? -- Mcoder 13:30, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I've made some improvements. Thanks for your suggestions. Stephen B Streater 07:29, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: From List of Codecs talk page

message: I've done a whack of tidying up, taking out the references I think Sleepy was complaining about (and where appropriate making them external links instead) and trying to tone down the language where it sounded a bit "promo". I've also temporarily commented out the patents, that is, the links to the actual patents themselves. Maybe I shouldn't have (which is why I didn't outright delete them, obviously) - it seems a bit excessive to include them, but I'm not at all sure. It probably still needs de-marketing-speak-ifying somewhat, and I want at least someone else (someone external, I'm afraid, not Stephen!) to proof-read it before removing the cleanup tag. Hope I've not done anything terribly terrible. --JennyRad 14:42, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for this. It's a lot more readable without all the in-line references. I was wondering if the external links supporting the article content should be separated from the product-related external links. It would be a shame if there was a later cull of external links followed by an even later cull of unreferenced content. Stephen B Streater 15:35, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I've had this concern in the past as well: links are removed to trim content, but then later someone else comes along and removes the seemingly unreferenced content. Perhaps comments in the article source itself would help in this regard? In other words, when removing a reference for the purposes of readability, maybe we could insert a <!- -> style comment that identifies that sources were removed for brevity. Unlike talk page discussions, doing it this way would ensure that the citation doesn't get lost during archiving. A Transportation Enthusiast 16:37, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is this cleaner? 

message: The image FORscene_editing_interface_May_2006.PNG is tagged .
This does not meet the requirements of :Category:Conditional use images, which are images that may be used for any purpose, but may require attribution or other acknowledgement.
Since the use of this tag violates Wikipedia's copyright policy, the image may be removed, but I'd like to give Stephen B Streater a chance to fix this before proposing deletion. --Mcoder 23:45, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. Looks like I misinterpreted "free". I'll fix the tag. Stephen B Streater 06:41, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Non-free images 

message: First the article was nominated for deletion, now it has a banner stating the quality needs to be changed to meet WP standards. Can we infer that its present form exceeds current WP quality levels. :-)
Could somebody explain how this banner came about? I thought the need to keep things tidy was something that applied to all articles equally. Why has this article been singled out as being having a need greater than the thousands of others on WP? mk 15:29, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Several editors have improved this article since that cleanup was put on by the AfD proposer here . His specific points have all been answered, so I don't know if he still thinks it should be there. Since then, various other ideas, such as those from Mcoder have been mooted. I'll address these in detail when Broadcast Live is over. You could always try removing the banner and see if anyone objects. Perhaps the cleanup was triggered by article being new. It's now had around ten editors all together. Stephen B Streater 18:03, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tidy up? 

message: I'm reluctant to repeat great swathes of material which is available in the blue links, because this makes it too verbose for people who are familiar with blue linked concepts and doesn't benefit from improvements to the blue-linked articles. The timecode section could be expanded though as there are multiple uses of timecode output, depending on how FORscene is used.
A typical consumer will not have come across timecode, except seeing it by chance on badly edited live TV programmes, so may be unfamilar with it. All professional users in the broadcast industry will be familar with it. Timecode, written as four pairs of digits separated by colons, specify the hour, minute, second and frame of every frame of video. When FORscene is used for logging, editing and reviewing over the web it has pictures restricted to browse quality (to reduce bandwidth and CPU requirements). These are not sufficient resolution for broadcasting on conventional TV programmes (though no doubt, with improvements in internet speed and storage, this state of affairs will only be temporary). There are several ways to get the information in FORscene into a broadcast quality version of the programme. They all use timecodes (and reel name) to relate browse quality copies of the video to broadcast quality versions.
* When logging, exporting an Avid Log Exchange or XML which contains the logging information (tied to appropriate timecodes)
* When editing or reviewing, exporting a CMX 3600 EDL. This contains timecode specifying the exact start and end point of each edit. The broadcast quality original video can then be combined with the EDL to give a broadcast quality copy of the programme.
* When editing, exporting an XML or AAF which contains detailed edit information allowing automatic remaking of a broadcast quality video from the original source material.
* When uploading into FORscene at browse quality, FORscene can keep broadcast quality material too. After the browse quality is edited, FORscene can output eg a QuickTime or AAF file at broadcast quality which contains all the edits too, for finishing on FCP or Avid.
It's a bit like making a rough copy on your 300dpi laser printer, and then sending a postscript file off to a printer for high quality rendering.
Do people think it would be useful to include any of this information? And if so, which bits? Should I write Avid log exchange and CMX 3600 stubs? Stephen B Streater 21:18, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the key to what should/should not be included in this article has to be FORscene-specificness. Things like the nature of timecode should be in the timecode article (suitably wikilinked). I'm looking at pages like Final Cut Pro and Final Cut Express to try to decide by analogy what sort of things are suitable to include - the biggest problem then being that what is suitable to include on a page about something mainstream like FCP may be tut-tutted at on  a page about an as-yet less-used system written largely by the page's author. Having said which I'm very tempted to write a section explaining usage of FORscene for Joe Bloggs. The why and what and who. I'd appreciate it if others would leap in and yell if they think this is a terrible idea! --JennyRad 11:20, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'd give it a go. It might put the rest of the article in more context. Stephen B Streater 12:51, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Timecode Export 

message: I've added a short section on usage, which seems to me to be relevant and an important thing to include - but I can't as yet find parallels in other articles on Wikipedia. I'm not sure whether this is because (a) I'm looking in the wrong place, (b) it simply hasn't occured to people that it's a useful section for specialist software pages to include or (c) other people don't agree that it's a useful section. I'd be grateful for opinions before I expand this section - or indeed start including it on pages on other specialist software I know stuff about! --JennyRad 17:20, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a good start. The usage section would be a good place to include the workflow diagrams for web-based workflow, perhaps when they are published by a reliable secondary source. I can't help feeling that Usage should go above History. Perhaps Intro, Usage, Components, [Pricing], History, See also, References, External links. Does this make sense? Stephen B Streater 17:35, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Agreed - seems so logical that I've implemented it! --JennyRad 17:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Usage

message: There is a lot of white space on my version near the top, as the contents list is quite long, and he introduction is quite short. How is this space normally filled? Stephen B Streater 19:10, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  White space 

message: Any thoughts on how to accomodate Clesh into Wikipedia? Currently there's no Clesh article on WP. Should Clesh have it's own article? Or is it appropriate to describe Clesh within the FORscene article? I.e. along the lines of it being the 'consumer flavour' of FORscene? mk 22:19, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clesh 

message: Added launch of FORscene Server (September 2009). Have skipped 12 months - retain this note as a reminder to skip through the intervening time to add any significant historic events during this period. mk (talk) 20:06, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: There are too many updates to the platform to maintain this table. Sensible option will be to slim it down and perhaps present it as text detailing fewer (but more significant) milestones than is present. The platform is updated all the time which is neither feasible to track within the article (it would render it unreadable) nor is this necessary (the platform's designers maintain this same information on an external website where interested parties can be referred to) mk (talk) 23:53, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  History Section 

message: Anyone interested in how FORscene works can come to Cloud Camp to hear my talk. Stephen B Streater (talk) 10:01, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Postponed because of the air travel disruption after the 2010 Eyjafjallajökull eruption. Stephen B Streater (talk) 15:03, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  This has been rescheduled for 17 June 2010. Stephen B Streater (talk) 10:34, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cloud Camp 

message: Bit of a 'watch this space' item - FORscene was recently ported over to run on an N900. Until this time the standard web browser has been the primary means of using the FORscene client. With the release on the N900 and news about the sister platform Clesh being up and running on Android a new section / paragraph to address this would be useful to readers. I will mention the N900 somewhere... mk (talk) 23:58, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  FORscene Clients 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Subject of the article 'Forscene' has changed and a new name (Blackbird) has come into majority use. The name 'Blackbird_(video)' seems a sensible choice. Any views? mk (talk) 17:19, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: See Requested Move discussion below.  Please comment there. Dicklyon (talk) 17:31, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name change 

message: Following the recent overhaul of the article could somebody please review whether this banner is still appropriate. If it isn't then please remove it. If it is, then please outline reasons why and ideas for precipitating removal. As I'm the author of most of the updates I don't feel I'm in the best position to judge it. mk (talk) 20:49, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Maintenance template removal