Talk:Marko Marulić

message: Marko Marulić didn't write anything in Italian. He wrote only in Latin and Croatian. This Italian site has the complete bibliography: . Therefore, there is no reason to include the Italian version of the name only because Venice ruled his hometown during his lifetime. --Zmaj 11:12, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Let's suppose you are right: Marco Marulo is referncied: so you have to leave it where he is.--Giovanni Giove 20:26, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The debate here largely ignores the complexities and specificities of Marco Marulic's culture. He was a native of Venetian-controlled Split, clearly identifying with the dominant Romance language-speaking society ruling the place. These were the governors, administrators, bishops, military commanders, teachers and scholars who spoke Latin, the Venetian dialect or some Romance lingua franca, whether they were Venetian, imported from other regions in the Italian peninsular or locally born. Importantly, Marko himself also acknowledged the Slavic-speaking community which obviously embodied the majority vernacular language in the Dalmatian region, namely, Croatian, Hrvatski or as he put in a famous work, "haruacchi". This writer and intellectual figure consciously reflected both aspects. He is a symbiotic figure like Hektorovic, Drzic and Gundulic, epitomising the essence of a multilayered Dalmatian culture which developed from Roman, Slav and Venetian influences. When we talk today of him being an Italian or a Croat with our modern, post-19 Century nationalistic sensibilities we are seeking to oversimplify who he was ethnically, culturally and liguistically. We need to detach our own contemporary worldview from the historical account. The same applies to the debates focused around Marco Polo, Juraj Dalmatinac and other Dalmatians. I wish upon you a cooling breeze.--Maestrale 13:24, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: He didn't write anything in Italian

message: The fact is that the idea of Croatia and Croats - as it could seen today - emerged in the second half of 19th century. It is baseless to extend the same idea in the past and apply on the people who never called themselves Croats and territories which never belonged to any Croatia in the past. Wikipedia is not a place for political propaganda. --Giorgio Orsini 12:54, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Read the history of Croatia and learn something. You could also check the article called cultural imperialism to understand what you're doing right now. --Zmaj 12:57, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I read more than your propaganda pamphlets. And, please, be civil.--Giorgio Orsini 13:12, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hypocrite! --Zmaj 13:26, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Sorry but you are writing nonsense here. Marulić openly declared and wrote he is writing in Croatian. Also your hypothesis that the idea of Croats and Croatia emerged in 19th century is laughable. The idea of Croats and Croatia existed throughout history and was expressed by various people in Dalmatia. Not just ordinary people but people of meaning, people like Marulić, Držić, Vrančić and so on. So please why don't you stop with this nonsense and actually do something useful for Wikipedia. And stop vandalizing fine articles already. --No.13 14:14, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is those things written by people like GiorgioOrsini that should be reported to an administrator--his comments openly admit he does not believe the Croatian people existed until the second half of the 19th century. He writes off everything that contradicts him as "propaganda." Is there anyway he can be reported to stop his attacks against Croatia and its culture?? He doesnt even attempt to learn about Croatia, as can be seen. This is getting ridiculous--every Croatian should be insulted over this. And thank you Zmaj for introducing me to the cultural imperialism article. Now I have an official name on what he has been doing.--Jesuislafete 02:57, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Again I witness the historical facts offending our nationalist worldviews, ie that each "nation" must have an ethnically homogenous population and that multiculturalism only existed after 1953. And I note the desperate efforts made to defend the nationality of a figure who himself would not quite understand what the all the fuss is about. Let me remind you that Spalatto / Split was more of a city state within the Venetian Republic and Marulic's allegiences were to his Western European home town, and not Venice or Padua or Florence or Bologna or Rome. So we can remove the Italian designer label from his scholarly robes. Nor did Marulic ever harp on about King Tomislav's reign in the 10 tenth century or the Hungarian/Croatian Dual crown - and he would have known about this being a historian and a man of the church. We can therefore remove the "Made in Croatia" sticker from his spectacles. What he does truthfully reflect however by the language of his work is a culture informed by the two elements of Romance and Slav.  The comments from Signore Orsini are not helpful. Likewise, the proponents on the Croatian side - though not the main offenders - should think a bit deeper as well.--Maestrale 14:01, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  About "Croatization' of history of Dalmazia 

message: Few links from library of HAZU.
. Book by Bernardin Splićanin (Bernardin of Split). Pistvle i Evanyelya po sfe godischie harvatschim yazichom stumacena. Novo pristampana i spomgnom priuiyena, po nacinu nouoga Missala nareyena po sfetoy materi Crichui. - Prodayuse v Bnetcih pri sfetomu Xulianu v chgnigara chi darxi zlamen od Macche, 1586. 
 catalogue search result and scanned first page  . Book from 1699. Naredbe od zbora darxave splitske / dane na svitlo od prisuit. i prip. gna gna Stipana Cosmi arkibiskvpa splitskoga inako Solinskoga, poglauice Dalmatie i sue harvuatske zemglie.
 and . By Ivan Dražić: Proslavglienje s. Dujma, parvoga archibiskupa solinskoga braniteglja Splieta grada i svoieh darsciavaa sve Harvaske semglje poglavize / Prikasano piesnim slovinskima po Ivannu Drasichju popu Spliechjaninu. Pris. i priposit. g. Stippanu Cosmi archibiskupu splieskomu priklono poklogneno. - U Bnezih : pritiskano po Antonu Bartoli, 1706.
Unknown author. Search result Note: 2n edition?. Pripraugle[gne] k s misi, pribogogliubne molitve koje imaju misniczih pria i poslie s. misse govoriti prinesene iz latinskoga u harvaski jezik za lasnost i potribu misnikah Harvachianah. - . - U Mleczi : Po J. Tommasinu, 1747.
I'll translate you the text later. Note: all these texts are church texts, and they were printed in Venice. 
Even in Venice from 16th century, and Roman Catholic Church at all, it was clear that Croatia existed; though, at that time, under foreign rulers, but still, existed as country ("harvuatske zemglie" = "Croatia"). Kubura 09:14, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Croatian language and historical name in use 

message: 1) Marco Marulo is referencied
As well as Jackie Chan , Bruce Lee.... So what?? Artistic names for the foreigners...
Do you know they their real names ? Off course not, because you can not  pronounce them!!
     
    2) Marulo was not born in Croatia but in Dalmatia.
In that case Dante Alighieri , Michealngelo ,da  Vinci were not italian artists, scientists at all . they were not born in Italy , neither Italy existed in time. And nobody called Rome, Venice, Florence ,Naples as Italian 
   
    2) he wrote Italian poems
your counting is not too good! 3 . 
if you are saying the truth and Marulić was writting in toscany language ..... George Bernard Shaw, James Joyce have  have been  writting in English , but they were not English.
Btw, there was no Italy at that time. Neither Split was italian ever . So these his (never unrevealed) poems might belong
to Dalmatia, Croatia, etc. Surely not to Italy.
    3) the old names of the cities were italian (see wikirules for historical names)
Another fake !! Old names were either Illyric, either Greek or Latin. 
Surely not Italian !!
    4) You, uncivil, do not insult!--Giovanni Giove 21:07, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nonsences by Giovanni Giove 

message: Here is a website of the Italian University of Padova  about Marko Marulić.
http://marulianum.storia.unipd.it/
On that are list his Croatian works (Opere croate) and Latin works (Opere latine). No any mention of his works in Italian (Toscan or Venetian ) language.
No mather that in the biography of him in Italian is mentiooend his italianized name , the name of the article Marko Marulić (1450-1524)
So much about Italianhood of Marko Marulić.  lol
--Anto 05:15, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  University of Padova 

message: Could somebody of the administrators put the internal link to the Italian wiki article about MaruliĆ ???
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Marulus
--Anto 16:09, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Internal links 

message: I found this drawing on the Findagrave.com (link in the article), can anyone check authenticity of this image and see the copyright/use for it? Er-vet-en (talk) 15:06, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I now know it's not authentic, but an early 20th century depiction. Whoops.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.138.84.68 (talk) 13:35, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  portrait 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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