Talk:International Ornithologists' Union

message: Hi. Are you able to assist me in puzzling this out, you seem to be across this merger of names and I hope to expand on some facts. The IOC might stand for Committee or Congress, two separate bodies, correct? If so, then read on …
The Congress became/merged/subsumed-by the Union, sometime, these facts are irrelevant to my query if my first statement is correct. 25 years ago the working committee[?] began the BOW list. This list was published in 2006, on behalf of authorising body (Union or Congress) as Birds of the World: Recommended English Names; Princeton University Press, 2006. The website adopting the work as a first draft is linked from the IOU, with a potted history and current status, "although it draws on the English names published in 2006, is not under the Union's authority.", 
*IOC World Bird List (F. Gill & D. Donsker). doi: 10.14344/IOC.ML.7.2 - http://www.worldbirdnames.org/ - internet only 
presumably because of their statement, "The IOU does not grant imprimatur or take a position in supporting any specific list. Users are urged to consult all to find out which answers their needs." (internationalornithology.org/birdlist). This is my current understanding, which seems to disagree with a redirect here International Ornithological Committee, although it accords with the redirect International Ornithological Congress. — cygnis insignis 07:59, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Back around 2014, I had a much clearer idea of how this stuff was organized, and when, but it's all dissipated in my mind now.  I remember one salient thing not mentioned here: the publishers of one of the major bird reference works were who had commissioned or funded IOC to produce their list, and in the end this backer didn't like the results (nor how long it took, and the fact that various national bodies refused to go along with it, and that others complained about made-up names that no one uses) and so the publisher ended up not adopting the list they'd urged to be developed.  I don't really recall all the details of that, though. I'm not sure this stub article is correct, that it started as IOC (the committee) and got renamed IOU.  The IOU may have been the organization proper, and then the IOC formed within it, or perhaps from its members but separately, to do the work in response the publisher's proposed project to produce such a list. If so, then IOC would be (or might have at one time been) a sub-organization or maybe a split-off.  It would be aberrant for something to be named the "[Something] Committee" without being a committee formed within or to the side of an existing body; it's implicit in the name. The other IOC is the conference, the event, at which the organization does its voting and stuff; that's the congress.  People at WT:BIRDS may have more detail on this, but it should be "figure-out-able" with reliable sources; there are surely some documents and articles around that make this stuff clear.  I have no idea what's going on with the online fork of the list, "not under the Union's authority" (whose is it under then, and what makes them an authority?), nor am I certain about who the exact copyright holders are of the original book-published version, nor whether anyone still consults it. The last time I looked on the website of the online version, the list of organizations and publishers who had adopted  list was very piecemeal and not very encouraging. But a lot can happen in four years, I suppose.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  13:42, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  Immensely helpful, thank you for fleshing that out, I should be able to get this straightened out with sources. Authority? Not so bothered by it now, but was perplexed when I noticed one claim to authority was its use at wikipedia as an authority that wikipedia must use, because it is an authority that is widely used, at wikipedia. This kind of circularity is a comfort to me these days :-) cygnis insignis 15:24, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, jeebus.  Count yourself truly fortunate that you were not around for the  of WP:DRAMA.  Where'd you see this circular claim?  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  15:49, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: About eight years ago, at that site, and here when I first looked at it. Since removed I think, maybe they were desperate at the time, but I suppose it is archived somewhere. I still see the impact of wars in article space, wrangling over names and not a word about the topic in the lead.  I notice we don't follow their lead on Title Case for organisms, well that is just wrong!! [ducks head, scurries away to be useful] cygnis insignis 17:21, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  IOC and IOC