Talk:Meta-reference

message: "Meta-reference describes a situation in a form of media whereby fictional characters display an awareness that they are in a film, television show or book. Sometimes it may even just be a form of editing or film-making technique that comments on the programme/film/b--Wasabe3543 19:53, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  What was before 

message: What about Seinfeld? Can someone add some of these? One particularly good example is the multi-episode sequence in which they write and shoot a TV pilot "about nothing," and George, over coffee, suggests that their conversation about salsa and seltzer "could be a show."
*Thanks for your suggestion. If you feel a change is needed, please go ahead and make it yourself!  Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone (yourself included) can edit any article by following the  link. You don't even need to log in, although there are several reasons why you might want to.  Wikipedia convention is to be bold and not be afraid of making mistakes.  If you're not sure how editing works, have a look at How to edit a page, or try out the Sandbox to test your editing skills.  New contributors are always welcome. Guinness 12:39, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Seinfeld 

message: "In his 1987 movie Spaceballs, the villains watch a video of the movie to find out where the heroes have gone, and become slightly confused when they end up briefly watching themselves watching themselves on video."
 
This represents a paradox in that, as long as they would watch the video, the fast forward would continue to show them watch the video no matter how fast it sped up, and they could never see the end for discoving their purpose of how to possibly get an edge on the 'good guys.' Secondly, the video fast forwards faster than the speed that they would actually end up watching the video for, so when they give up is actually past the point in time in which they would have fast-forwarded to beyond that scene of them watching themselves. Which seems impossible. I don't know if this could be concisely added to the article, but it is worth note if even just here in discussion. Nagelfar 20:07, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cinema examples; a paradox in this particular meta-reference 

message: There's a fairly extensive discussion and list related to this topic at List of fiction that breaks the fourth wall. Maybe these two articles should be merged? 23skidoo 21:46, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge with [[List of fiction that breaks the fourth wall]]?

message: I noticed this page is almost entirely filled with examples. Are there too many? Should they be broken off into their own page? Dansiman 06:30, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Long Page 

message: The article currently mentions that Banjo-Tooie features a number of references to Banjo-Kazooie. I've never played either game, but I'm operating under the impression that it's actually quite common for sequels to directly refer to events that took place in previous games. This, of course, would be a continuity reference, not meta-reference. Of course, if they used phrases along the lines of "Hey, I remember you from the first game.", well then, yes, that would be a meta-reference. Can someone confirm whether Tooie talks about things that happened in the first game, or about Banjo-Kazooie actually being a game? Master Deusoma 01:27, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Slightly off-topic. 

message: I'm not 100% sure, but I think there is some meta-reference in The Miser , when Harpagon goes insane?  On The Miser's page, it mentions this but has no specific details. If anyone with a better knowledge of the play could provide details, it'd be much appreciated. Malrase 20:54, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moliere 

message: When there's a character voice-over (or in the case of novels a first person narration) and it refers to "you", would that be considered a meta-reference or breaking the fourth wall? An example from the Animorphs novels: "My name is Jake. I can't tell you my last name or where I live or the Controllers will get me". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 218.215.140.2 (talk) 01:01, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd just call that a narration. — RevRagnarok Talk Contrib 01:03, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Voice-overs and first person narration 

message: this term "meta-reference" is a misnomer. it's used to specifically refer to something in a work of fiction/media, but the term itself in no way conveys this meaning. has anyone heard this term used before the last couple of years? why is the term being acknowledged with an article, and without citing any sources? 58.163.133.183 14:49, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why are we validating this pretentious misnomer? 

message: While not provably the "earliest," Roscoe "Fatty" Arbuckle certainly "broke the fourth wall" in films long before the Marx Brothers did.  One gag he used in several films in several variations was a scene where Fatty would have to change clothes onscreen.  As he was doing so, he would motion to the cameraman to tilt the camera up so he was not seen below the waist.  Fatty used this gag or variations thereof in 1915 (and possibly earlier) during his tenure at Keystone.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.252.246.14 (talk) 22:20, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Earliest in cinema? 

message: Asseveral is not a word.  it needs to be changed or removed from the article.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.120.225.10 (talk) 23:31, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Incorrect words 

message: * The web series Homestar Runner makes use of this technique to comedic effect frequently, as seen "No hands on deck," when Homestar claims "I better get to work if I'm going to build a deck in this cartoon." Another instance from the Homestar Runner universe is in Teen Girl Squad episode 11, in which Cheerleader examines the script while asking "Does 'Uggs' have one 'g' or two?" I'm unsure where these references would be placed, since it is a web series and not really film or television. TeebOliver (talk) 21:28, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Homestar Runner 

message: I'd need to watch back more episodes of the TV show proper to see if this was an ongoing thing carried over from the original series, but as an example of a stage show, the various incarnations of "Bottom Live" has such a heavy reliance on humorous and overt meta-reference (including covering for prop mishaps or script goofs) that it almost becomes part of the plot, with the story proper counting for 50% or less of the actual show time, and there being points where it's not entirely clear whether particular mistakes and equipment malfunctions are intentional or genuine.
(yay for paragraph-filling run-on sentences!)
I know it's "just" a pretty crude, cheap comedy show with an overabundance of knob gags and other childish smut, but I randomly saw a televised filming of one of its installments last night and, as well as being absolutely cracked up even whilst acknowledging it's utter low-brow nature, I couldn't help realising the sparks of comic genius that went into leveraging this device and its general destruction of the 4th wall to make an otherwise weak premise into something hilarous. 77.102.101.220 (talk) 16:46, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  so tempted to add.... 

message: Would adding references be detrimental to the article? I think the point is debatable.93.96.148.42 (talk) 04:51, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: "This article does not cite any references or sources."

message: Dziga Vertov
He was probably the first film maker that's to be called 'meta'.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.190.253.150 (talk) 16:55, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vertov 

message: “Some novels with first person narration contain instances of metareference when the narrator addresses the reader directly. Examples include Charlotte Brontë's Jane Eyre, Lemony Snicket's A Series of Unfortunate Events, and Philip Reeve's Larklight.”
I request adding quotes from mentioned places aside the pacing numeration, because it'll make the article more informative and interesting. DaemonDice (talk) 21:37, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Additional quotes from books? 

message: I removed
because, though seemingly paradoxical, it has nothing to do with fiction or the fourth wall. —Tamfang (talk) 01:29, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  this section intentionally irrelevant 

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thread_title:  External links modified