Talk:Variation in Australian English

message: Cursive,
I see you've edited the paragraph on soccer.  The paragraph had read as follows.
 In the early 21st century the national governing body for soccer
 attempted to foster use of "football" to mean soccer, in accordance with general
 international usage. However, use of the word "football", to mean either
 Australian rules or one of the rugby football codes, is well-established in Australia,
 and the belated attempt to change this has not been generally accepted by common usage. 
It not reads like this.
 In the early 21st century the national governing body for football (soccer)
 attempted to foster use of "football" to mean soccer, in accordance with general
 international usage. It is yet to be seen whether this will spead into the mainstream,
 however it is important to note that several media outlets have adopted the use of the
 word football in accordance with this. 
# Do you contend that use of the word "football" to mean either Australian rules or rugby is not well-established in Australia?  If not, then this should not have been deleted.
# Since we are talking about the early 21st century and it is still the early 21st century I suppose that it is fair to say "It is yet to be seen whether this will spead into the mainstream,".  It "not been generally accepted by common usage" yet but it may be too early to tell.
# I suppose we needn't call it a "belated" attempt.  It's all relative ... isn't it?
# Nor do we need to claim that it is important to note that some sections of the media have addopteed the usage.  Is it important?  Important to whom for what?  Let's not just be wordy for wordiness' sake.
# It would be nice to have some citations for the claim that "several media outlets have adopted the use of the word football in accordance with this."  Can you give us some?
# However, the game is still called "soccer" in Australian English.  I don't deny that soccer is a kind of football but I disagree with calling it "football (soccer)" in this article.  It's enough just to call it "soccer" and that's (still) the norm in Aussie English.  
# In this article Australian English is used regardless of how the Football Federation Australia or a handful of media outlets would have us speak the game is still called "soccer".
I'm considering adjusting the paragraph accordingly.  I'll not simply revert you but I'm thinking of rewriting the paragraph to attempt to include both view points. How about this?
 In the early 21st century the national governing body for soccer
 attempted to foster use of "football" to mean soccer, in accordance with general
 international usage and several media outlets have adopted the use of the word "football" in
 accordance with this. It is yet to be seen whether this will spead into the
 mainstream, however, use of the word "football", to mean either
 Australian rules or one of the rugby football codes, is well-established in Australia.
Jimp 7&8 March 2006 (UTC)
:: Soccer - I agree with the idea that soccer is the most common name in Australia for the round ball game. The biggest proponent of a name change to football is the Special Broadcasting Service (SBS). Although the Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC) is another government funded broadcaster they mainly use the term soccer. I imagine the name football may gain greater popularity, however its my personal experience that a strong majority of people would be confused by this name change and use soccer as the preferred name in daily usage. Ozdaren 13:58, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Soccer

message: I've removed westie from the following paragraph.
 There are many regional variations for describing social classes or subcultures.
 The best example is probably bogan (fairly universal), which is also referred to
 as bevan in Queensland, westie around Sydney, and booner in the ACT.
Westie is not synonymous with bogan, bevan and/or booner.  A westie is a resident of Penrith, Paramatta, the western suburbs of Sydney, etc.  The terms bogan, bevan and/or booner refer to such things as appearance, taste and attitude.  Westies may be stereotyped as being bogans and many of them may indeed be bogans but the terms have different meanings. Jimp 02:22, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Westie

message: I find there are a couple of differences in the way Victorians speak that separate them from the rest of Australians. It seems to be more distinct with people from regional areas but still noticeable with Melburnians.
Firstly words such as "castle" that rhymes with "hassle" rather than "parcel", though it doesn't seem to be the case with everyone.
But the one that I find is common for most Victorians is the swapping of the "al" and "el" vocal sounds, so that "mELbourne" sounds like "mALbourne", "ALcohol" sounds like "ELcohol", "bALcony" sounds like "bELcony" etc
Also I am led to believe that in Sydney (maybe other parts of NSW and maybe Queensland) for words such as "school" and "pool", the "oo" rhymes with that of "food" rather than "good".
thoughts? Lukeoz 11:41, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, in Sydney the vowel in school and pool is (phonemically) the same that in food and (phonemically) different to the one in good.  As far as I'm aware this is the case in almost all English dialects.  There are except to this. In Scotland, the north of Ireland & parts of S.E. Asia food and good rhyme anyway.  Another exception may be found in regions with the full-fool merger.  This merger doesn't occur in Australian English but, as the section I've linked to explains, the vowel in school and pool can sound similar to the one in good.  They still are different vowels, though, because of length. Jimp 07:13, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Victorian Accent

message: What an interesting article. Well done, cobbers! --Gazzster 09:52, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No wuckers mate. Jimp 08:16, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Interesting 

message: Talk to people from Toowoomba! I was talking to them and they sounded different. Seriously!!210.49.85.32 (talk) 11:23, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Great. If you want to add it to the article, find a credible reference, and add it and the new information. Format (talk) 22:34, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Toowoomba is in Southern Queensland, only a couple of hours north of the border.LowKey (talk) 13:35, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Northern Queensland accent 

message: Currently the article mentions that, "Distinctive grammatical patterns exist such as the use of the interrogative eh? and the position of the word but at the end of a sentence in Queensland ("But I don't like him" becomes "I don't like him but")." However, I've lived in Queensland all my life, and virutally never have I heard it being used in the manner it appears to imply here.
"He's pretty friendly, but I don't like him."
"I don't like him, but he's pretty friendly."
Those are the ways I've almost always heard such a sentence being uttered or written. "He's friendly and all. I don't like him but." would most likely be met by the reply, "But what?" as an explanation of why the first person doesn't like him would then be expected. Perhaps it's used in West Queensland or some areas of Far North or South East Queensland, but certainly not in Central or North Queensland. 110.174.248.198 (talk) 16:03, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  "But I don't like him" becomes "I don't like him but" 

message: I was a bit surprised by this inclusion. I realise it's a fairly subjective area and Gillard definitely has a broader accent than, say, Rudd and Downer, but are we really placing her in the same category as Steve Irwin and Paul Hogan? Sources might be nice. ~ Riana ⁂ 08:50, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The reason I'm asking here instead of changing it myself is that I might have a different opinion on this than other people. I'll look for some references. Unfortunately a lot of writing about her mode of speech makes reference to her voice rather than her accent. ~ Riana ⁂ 08:53, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inclusion of [[Julia Gillard]] in "Broad Australian accents" 

message: I like the table of broad, general, and cultivated varieties, but curious why the vowel of  is given as  in the table. Australian English shows  instead. Is  a mistake due to the symbol used for RP, or is it based on a source?
Also, I thought  was diphthongized in broad Australian, but the table doesn't show this. — Eru·tuon 20:04, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: It's another bad copy-paste from South African English. The first one was on Received Pronunciation. I removed it. Peter238 (talk) 20:31, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  Oh well. It would be nice to have an accurate table for Australian. — Eru·tuon 21:18, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  Check AoE, page 597. It can be used as source for a table (Wells's  needs to be replaced with  though). I'm also not sure if you'll be able to clearly see the diacritics. Peter238 (talk) 22:28, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks. I added the table. You're right, I couldn't see some of the diacritics, and I marked them with HTML comments. If you know what they are, add them or let me know. Also am puzzled as to whether  was really nasalized. — Eru·tuon 22:27, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'll try to figure them out. AFAIK, yes, Broad AuE has a tendency to be noticeably more nasal than other varieties. Anyway, that's how Wells transcribes it. I'll also add the "advanced" diacritic under , as Wells describes it as advanced central. Peter238 (talk) 00:01, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

text:   fixed. The (previously) unreadable diacritic means 'lowered'. Peter238 (talk) 18:52, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: If somebody is trying to find a new table, I would suggest that only including 'General Australian' as the defacto standard is necessary. There is no doubt that 'Cultivated Australian' is not necessary given that such a small proportion of the population speak with this accent today that it should be treated the same as any other small minority accent (that is to say, not including it in the table). While 'Broad Australian' is probably spoken by about a third of the population, it is not the standard which is used for giving pronunciations in dictionaries, on television, or by the majority of the population, so I don't see that it is particularly necessary in the table either. I don't see Southern, Bostonian, New York or African American (which is also a non-regional accent) in the table for US English, for example.--Saruman-the-white (talk) 00:12, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The purpose of that table is to compare some of the vowel realizations in General, Cultivated and Broad AuE. What you're suggesting has nothing to do with that. Peter238 (talk) 00:13, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Errors 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Variation in Australian English. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20061205185547/http://www.news.com.au:80/heraldsun/sport/soccer to http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/soccer
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20061205185248/http://www.news.com.au:80/couriermail/soccer/ to http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/soccer/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070202012719/http://www.news.com.au:80/adelaidenow/sport/soccer/ to http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/sport/soccer/
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 13:50, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: When people come to Melbourne they pronounce Malvern as Melvern. Interestingly Benalla is pronounced Benella- When travelling with my dog, Ella people in NSW hear that I'm calling her Allah but they pronounce it Elha like USAmericans. even though I call it Bourke Street Mall in Bendigo Pall Mall is pronounced Pell Mell- I believe this is how Pall Mall is pronounced in London as it has to do with a Croket field as it has a reference to Mallet- having said that I cannot pronounce Ellen and Allan differently and Peta and Peter are pronounced the same- Poida. Ferry and Fairy are definitely pronounced differently. My conclusion is that all Vowles are interchangeable, but I'm definitely not going to pronounce Spanish Vowles the way Nth Americans do. but definitely people outside of Melbourne pronounce, Malvern as Melvern. 124.170.111.13 (talk) 07:36, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Victoria- Malvern, Melbourne 

message: Victoria the hard a in castle is only used in reference to place names and in particular Castlemaine, no one would refer to a building which is a castle with a hard A... I wish I could remember how to use IPA spelling. 124.170.111.13 (talk) 08:04, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Victoria- Castle, castle. 

message: I've tried for years to pronounce the human-made body of water differently to the suburb which has many human-made bodies of water, but calling a reservoir a resewah, sounds like ya a wanker- Don't get me wrong I know how to pronounce Moet and other such things. Is this an appropriate time to bring up the letter H, or is that a whole different discussion? 124.170.111.13 (talk) 08:13, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Victoria- Rezza, Reservoirs and Reservoir.