Talk:Suicide/Archive 2

message: The change committed at 2005-04-23 about the 650 suicides per 100000 inhabitants per year(?)
in F.Rep.Germ is questionable, because the source clearly states up to today, that
the rate is correct (http://www.dghs.de/hintergr/suizid.htm). They even say,
that this rate is constant since 150 years. Since the official suicide rate is
about 20/100000 this number is quite interesting, I think. --83.129.173.180 00:03, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: "Patient Suicides"

message: Recently added by an anon:
A recent report by WHO states that nearly a million people take their own lives every year, more than those murdered or killed in war. World Health Organisation figures show a suicide takes place somewhere in the world every 40 seconds. The numbers are highest in Europe's Baltic states, where around 40 people per 100,000 commit suicide each year. While men make up most suicides, more women actually attempt to take their own lives.
Which report?  Can anyone verify this?  For articles of this nature, I'd prefer to replace weasel words with verifiable information wherever feasible.  I'll even settle with whichever magazine or whatever where the anonymous user learned this.  --Ardonik.talk() 20:26, Sep 9, 2004 (UTC)
::Although I can't take credit for the anon addition, I have added a link to the WHO report.  I wasn't sure if I should do that or create a reference. Below are the first two paragraphs of this report taken from the introduction.
:::According to WHO estimates, in the year 2000, approximately one million people died from suicide, and 10 to 20 times more people attempted suicide worldwide. This represents one death every 40 seconds and one attempt every 3 seconds, on average.
:::This also indicates that more people are dying from suicide than in all of the several armed conflicts around the world and, in many places, about the same or more than those dying from traffic accidents. In all countries, suicide is now one of the three leading causes of death among people aged 15-34 years; until recently, suicide was predominating among the elderly, but now suicide predominates in younger people in both absolute and relative terms, in a third of all countries.
::Please format the reference as appropriate. I am still learning about style matters like this.--CloudSurfer 04:54, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Since writing the above I have taken the "Statistics" entry and incorporated it into the Epidemiology.  I removed the sentence about males vs females as it was a duplication of information a couple of paragraphs down. --CloudSurfer 05:25, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statistics 

message: "To be considered suicide, the death must be a central component and intention of the act, not just a certain consequence; hence, suicide bombing is considered a kind of bombing rather than a kind of suicide, and martyrdom usually escapes religious or legal proscription."
Considered by who? This seems slightly POV, or at least very vague... Does anyone know exactly who this refers to?
Peregrine981 06:49, Sep 17, 2004 (UTC)
:Intent is required before acts become specific crimes.  Thus the intent to permanently deprive is required for theft. The intent to kill is required for murder, otherwise it is manslaughter. While not a lawyer, I believe that this concept is what is behind the section in question since it relates to legal and religious interpretations of an act. If so, the POV would then be a generally accepted legal POV.  --CloudSurfer 09:01, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Clarification is greatly necessary here, please! Even if it's accepted legal POV--fine, but tell us that. There are surely conflicting perpectives! Plus...does this deserve to be in the first paragraph, or may it be potentially a POV placement to indirectly respond to other questions? Dpr 02:17, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Considered Suicide" 

message: Parentacide is the term used to describe a child killing one or both parents. Although the subject is as abhorrent as suicide or infantecide, it is a part of our life that cannot be dismissed.
Parentacide dates back to Greek mythology, where Oedipus killed his father Laius and married his mother Jocasta. Frued coined the term Oedipus complex to describe a state of psychosexual development and awareness first occuring at the age of 3 1/2 years.
In 1989 Lyle and Erik Menendez commited parentacide when they murdered both of their parents in cold blood. Although the murders were at least partially motivated by money, the brothers alleged their father had abused them, which was their justification for the killing.
Jeremy Bamber committed parentacide by proxy and was convicted in 1986 of killing his adoptive parents, sister, and her two six year old sons. Although money was thought to be the motive for this killing spree, the fact that he was adopted indicates that the reasons behind the murders were less clear cut. Being adopted, Bamber very likely suffered from adopted child syndrome, which is a psychological maladjustment to the knowledge that his real parents had given him up for adoption.
:I'm a bit puzzled why User:217.206.168.163 chose to add the above information to this talk page. It sounds like it should go in other articles. And, for the record, the correct spellings are parenticide and infanticide. I changed the section header, but didn't change the poster's text, even though it appears to be intended as article text, as I believe discussion-text edits are the responsibility of the original poster. — Jeff Q 14:41, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Parenticide 

message: :However, in the Czech Republic, firearms are similarly commonplace, and the most popular method is jumping, most often from bridges.
That doesnt look resonable. My impression, althougt based on very limited knowledge of USA reality, is that firearms are much more common in USA. 
The impression can be supported by some statistics. [209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/942388/posts] quotes estimate of National Rifle Association. In US arms are in possesion of 60 million people, about 20% of population. In Czechia are cca 600.000 arm holders , about 6% of population. But 73.476 are merely collectors, 122.568 sportsman, 131.350 hunters (registered). Only about 250.000 Czechs have firearms for protection, which means 2%. IMO the people in possesion of arms for no specific pourpose, is the most significant. 
According to  most common means of acomplished suicide are hanging 59%, use of firearm 9,6% and jumps 9,5%. These terms are long-term stable. Increasing is portion of poisoning.
jumping, most often from bridges seems to based on anecdotal knowledge of Prague. There is a bridge in Prague (Nuselský most) frequently used by suiciders. (more than 300 suiciders jumped from the bridge.
--Wikimol 23:42, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Firearms in the Czech Republic 

message: I'm curious as to the use of terminology in the section "evolutionary explanations".  There seems to be an assumption that "evolutionists" (a term I have a particular distaste for, but anyway) need to find an explanation as to how suicide can be justified in evolutionary terms.  This seems to imply that creationists are mounting a critique of evolution based on the idea that evolution can't explain suicides.  Is this the case?  Do creationists actually make this argument? --Robert Merkel 03:03, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the actual assumption is that all things are explainable through evolution. Suicide just seems like a harder thing to explain than things like eyebrow plucking. Hyacinth 02:01, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Evolution and suicide... 

message: "Those with a history of such attempts are 100 times more likely to eventually end their own lives than those without." 
Does this figure have any evidence to support it? Shouldn't that be referenced?
If it is just an estimate, why not simply write "are more likely" without including the number of times?
Xrchz 02:06, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  How many times more likely?