Talk:Jagged Alliance 2

message: I know it's a little bit basic at the moment, but I hope we can improve it in pretty short order, and keep it free of game advice and POV into the bargain.  This game really does deserve its own article, and a good one at that.  Geoff B 12:44, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Be bold and contribute! Geoff B 22:30, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Article Created

message: Someone needs to add a stub tag to this article.  I would, but I don't know how. 63.215.29.111 02:51, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stub 

message: K, I basically extended the info on v1.13 stating its features and providing infos on v1.13 linux port, both from official sources, when my post got trimmed by Mr T (Based) (talk).
Please note the reason for trimmering.
A) V1.13 Wiki is not a reliable source.
B) JA2 Linux-port author words, that were published on Bearpit forum among with the CVS links to the source, are not reliable.
A) 1.13 wiki is official web page to 1.13 and hence all news and modification stats are put there by the original devs. Hence its reliable and your trim is NOT legal and should be reversed.
B) JA2v1.13 linux port author has published the links to CVS containing the code that runs on linux, on the Bearpit forum. For the proof it exists, look at the follow-up posts. What is not reliable on that? Port exists, it runs, its opensource and you can get the source and see that yourself. Forums are not reliable sources, but CVS links, containted on that forum ARE the proof. Hence not the forum, but CVS should be seem as a proof. The link to the forum was solely used because its is the official place where the author posts changes and communicates with other parties. As of here, electronical media CAN be a reliable source. If you further insist on clearing the situation, I urge you to contact the author of the port.
Moreover, A contains a direct link to B; that means BearPit is OFFICIAL forum for A. Since the link was only to the post of the author of the port, it does NOT include other members fantasies, wishes, etc etc; that can be considered to be "unreliable source".
If you(Mr.T) doubt that author lies, get source and see it yourself.
In the case anyone can find better source to prove the stated information, please include it.
213.196.221.21 (talk) 14:19, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Forums are not reliable sources, okay? So provide sources that are A) reliable and B) not forum posts, please. BTW, edits on Wikipedia are neither legal nor illegal.Mr T (Based) (talk) 14:59, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Follow the link to SVN, if you need dead straight fact. Contact the author to ensure authenticity. BTW, edits are illegal if they violate the rules. Wikipedia is an open encyclopaedia, so by preventing the access to knowledge, you violate its main codex. Sorry, I don't understand the line you follow.213.196.221.21 (talk) 17:02, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reason for trimming v1.13 features and info on linux port =

message: I added an external link to a page I created, twice.  It has been undone twice (by SharkD).  My page is very informative, relevant to the game, and has no advertising whatever.  Are additions of external links completely unwelcome? Fadden0 15:33, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia does have an external links policy, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:External_links, however I think Shark D may have been a bit hasty in removing the link to your page.  It looks like it's a decent resource.  Even if it's not a reliable source per Wikipedia's criteria, it's still informative and useful and is acceptable, I think.  Geoff B 15:45, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that external links are more suitable to be placed on DMOZ or an external wiki than the Wikipedia article itself. SharkD 01:08, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

text: No, this article never had many external links listed. SharkD (talk) 02:08, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Wikipedia has a policy in this regard, WP:EL. Generally, links need to be of an encyclopdic nature that provide further information on the topic. Discussion forums don't count. The site formerly listed, but removed (and discussed at top), is rather encyclopedic, which I overlooked at first glance. However, it doesn't meet the criteria of "Sites that contain neutral and accurate material that cannot be integrated into the Wikipedia article due to copyright issues, amount of detail (such as professional athlete statistics, movie or television credits, interview transcripts, or online textbooks) or other reasons.", as the material itself would violate WP:GAMEGUIDE, which leaves me confused as to whether it should be included. Generally, I think these sorts of links should be reserved for DMOZ (as users could easily pollute the list with lots of similar links). This site in particular could easily be integrated into JA Galaxy's database. If you have trouble getting these sites listed at DMOZ, then that's a strike against its usefulness. SharkD (talk) 02:08, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I notice that GameFaqs (which offers similar information) isn't linked to in many articles. I distinctly remember GameFaqs links being removed from several articles. Here is an example of a GameFaqs link being removed from a featured article candidate. SharkD (talk) 02:40, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

text: I've started a discussion on this topic here at WikiProject Video games. Make sure and check back on it once the discussion has continued for a bit. SharkD (talk) 02:52, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New external links not welcome? 

message: Due to how different the mercenary characters are, I could put in all of them and a brief note on each, but not if it were to be removed at a later point. Any words on that before I start writing would be great. I already added in the different traits/etc of the mercs. Gomoker (talk) 22:03, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mercenary Section 

message: I  am wondering what was the last/latest version of  Jagged Alliance 2, Jagged Alliance 2: Unfinished Business, Jagged Alliance 2 Gold, Jagged Alliance 2 Gold: Unfinished Business, Jagged Alliance 2: Wildfire 5, and Jagged Alliance 2: Wildfire 6, or if there is a later version (and/or patch) available.
Most software articles (even other games) show what version is the last/latest, so this will help the article as well.
Also note that it is shown on the first Jagged Alliance's Wikipedia article.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.14.145.31 (talk) 21:49, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Last/Latest Version? 

message: I think the gamplay section was way to brief and casually described. Brief because the game is very immersive with loads of features, much of which are unique or original to the game and should be mentioned as defining characteristics of JA2. Casual because of the lack of categorization, sectioning and clear flow of features. 
WP is not a game manual, so obviously the section shouldn't be crammed with every character's profile, every weapon/armor ingame, every city description, what every attribute does and what are the numbers...
I took the liberty to expand the section significantly. Corrections welcome. H3llkn0wz (talk) 18:24, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Good clean up.  And welcome to Wikipedia. Geoff B (talk) 00:45, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gameplay section edit 

message: Not sure about citing the game manual, using general reference guideline for this. This makes both numbered and bulleted list in references which is a tad weird, but I guess it serves the purpose well. Also, not sure about italics in the name of the manual, cannot really place this among any of the titles. --H3llkn0wz (talk) 13:40, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Nevermind, added individual page references for every significant feature. --H3llkn0wz (talk) 16:26, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Game manual 

message: I want this article to be assessed into at least B-class. Here is a to-do check-list.
"The article is suitably referenced, with inline citations where necessary."
:✓ All sections have references for major points.
:✘ Some small facts are not referenced.
:✘ Some references are missing authors, work, dates.
"The article reasonably covers the topic, and does not contain obvious omissions or inaccuracies.
:✓ Plot, Gameplay, Version (mods), Reception sections.
:✓ Lead, Plot, Gameplay, Version, Mods are sufficient.
:✘ Receptions section needs expansion, also with individual game (UB, Wildfire) reception.
:✘ There is no development/history section.
"The article has a defined structure."
:✓ All relevant section except development are included, sub-sectioned and formatted
"The article is reasonably well-written."
:✓ Adherance to MoS.
:✓ Neutral and concise.
:✓ No apparent grammar/spelling problems.
"The article contains supporting materials where appropriate."
:✓ VG infobox, score infobox and a screenshot (may need another in time).
"The article presents its content in an appropriately accessible way."
:✓ Technical terms are linked to their articles
First edit. —  H3llkn0wz  ▎talk  11:55, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I love that IGN quote.  Obviously he's a merc on his days off. Geoff B (talk) 10:51, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article improvement 

message: The article's been edited to use "troups", arguing that this is a Canadian spelling; both Canadian_English#Spelling_and_dictionaries and Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#National_varieties_of_English have been referred to, but I can't find any reference to this odd use on those pages. The Canadian Forces themselves seem to use "troops" almost invariably - 170 google hits on forces.gc.ca for "troups", and 39,000 for "troops", for example. The CBC likewise; 14,000 hits on their internal search for "troops",  37 for "troups".
I've asked someone with access to a copy of the Gage Canadian Dictionary - I don't have access to one myself - and apparently the same "troops" vs. "troupe" distinction is made as in British English; apparently no mention of "troups" for "troops". Pending any clear evidence this is in fact a preferred Canadian English spelling, I'm changing it back. Shimgray | talk | 22:30, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Canadian spellings 

message: In my oppinion this things are not correct or missing in the article, but it could be just my misinterpretation, so its up for debate:
* Jagged Alliance 2 takes place in the fictional country of Arulco
* Mercs can "practice" a skill by themselves or work as a "trainer" or "student"
* Would be nice to also mention that Militia has diffrent levels of experience...
* For aerial vehicles you also need a pilot and airspace not covered by enemy SAM sites
* The game also features weapons that do not cause loud noise, silencers and camouflage kits...
* Characters have an energy level, restored by sleep, rest, fluids or injections
* Items can be traded between mercs, picked up, dropped or thrown
* The player needs enough support in the town for convincing the miners to work for him (not only this sector is needed)
* Every sector does not have two entry points (like the last sector in the mines)
* The game doesnt include Treasure chests especialy not containing Power-ups, but items....
If you agree or disagree to some of the above, change the article or leave a comment. Luka666 (talk) 21:05, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Let's see
* Nation seems to apply here more than country.
* 'or' works, yep.
* Seems a bit trivial, but if we can work it in, not a problem.
* True, but mentioning everything you need to get something is game-guidish.
* Suppressors are mentioned in the weapons section.
* Agreed
* Agreed
* True, but you can get enough support by capturing just one sector, depending upon the strategic situation.  Popularity in towns is affected by the things you do outside them too.
* True.
* That redirect is a bit silly.
Geoff B (talk) 21:23, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  A few mistakes 

message: The article states the game 'has not altered the game engine or controls'. however, I can clearly see higher resolution, more mercs per team. I have also read of a few more minor improvements (game physics tweaks, AI). — Vano 23:02, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wildfire: Game engine improvements 

message: The majority of the article's references are presently taken either from the game or its documentation. It's certainly true that it's nice to have individual points sourced properly, but it raises the question of whether we need quite so much detail on topics which haven't been covered by secondary sources. For instance, the gameplay section should really be based around the game as presented by reviews and such rather than just explaining things out of the manual. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 19:15, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: There is so much trivia in guides that manual was used to make sure article includes only the stuff that manual writer thought was important to mention. Gameplay is rarely described with npov in reviews, it is instead evaluated, pointing good and bad points, skipping most features. And that's reception section not gameplay. As far as I'm concerned gameplay section currently details all the major features without actual trivia. Plot is indeed from primary source, then again most games' plots are primary and unsourced on WP. I suppose one could quote some guide for plot.—  H3llkn0wz  ▎talk  20:24, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

text: The gameplay section may be overly long, but I don't see why we would want to turn to reviews (opinion pieces) to describe it. Is there much purview for reviews outside of a 'Reception' section (or material that would fit in one)? SharkD  Talk  19:53, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Excessive use of primary sources 

message: While digging through the online print archive, I located the following print preview material for this game: 
*Computer Gaming World Preview 
*PC Gamer US Preview 
*Computer Games Magazine Preview 
*Computer Games Magazine Preview 
One or more print reviews for this game may also be found in the archive. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 10:35, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: They look like good finds, nicely done.  Geoff B (talk) 14:21, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference material 

message: I have got the old iDeal / StrategyFirst Wildfire disc (without the higher resolutions etc.), but source code is nowhere to be found. Is there any proof of published versions with it? -{Markus Moll (talk) 18:08, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source code on Wildfire CD-ROM? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Added  tag to http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/jaggedalliance2ub/review.html?page=2
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090130122244/http://pc.gamezone.com/gzreviews/r16265.htm to http://pc.gamezone.com/gzreviews/r16265.htm
*Added archive https://archive.is/20120715030212/http://uk.gamespot.com/news/2793269.html to http://uk.gamespot.com/news/2793269.html
*Added archive https://archive.is/20070806045623/http://www.manifestogames.com/jaggedalliance2 to http://www.manifestogames.com/jaggedalliance2
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090721235640/http://www.gametap.com/video-games/Jagged-Alliance-2-Gold-20000180-0.html to http://www.gametap.com/video-games/Jagged-Alliance-2-Gold-20000180-0.html
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