Talk:Fingerstyle guitar

message: This section should be deleted.  It appears to be an attempt at listing Knopfler as a fingerstyle player. Ry Cooder is worthy of mention as a fingerstyle player, however.  The solid body electric guitar was the instrument of choice for Ted Greene & Ed Bickert (Telecasters), Lenny Breau (various custom made). Differentiation based on electric or acoustic, solid body or hollow, nylon string or steel (Lenny played both) has more to do with sound, and less with the style of music being performed. - Albert  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.211.50.96 (talk) 16:02, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: There is a real issue about classifying by type of guitar, for the reasons mentioned:  the same technique can be employed on more than one guitar type. However the alternatives also have problem: classifying by technique runs into the problem that  genres like jazz don't remotely have a fixed technique. 1Z (talk)
Nice presentation of opinions. Can anyone find some citations for sections Bossa Nova, New Age Approach, and Funky Approaches?  69.211.50.96 (talk) 19:10, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Electric fingerstyle 

message: There is a separate article for "Piedmont Guitar."  I'm an amateur at this stuff, but I think Peidmont is a related style, and probably needs to be merged, cross-referenced, or the relation should be explicated by sopmeone who knows something more than I do.  76.229.204.47 (talk) 00:06, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Piedmont Guitar 

message: You've hit the nail on the head with the "fiddle" versus "violin" metaphor. They are technically synonymous, but the real-world connotation is different.
I think these are the key points we need to make in this article:
*1.) Fingerstyle is used to refer to both a technique and a group of musical genres.
*2.) While some use fingerstyle and fingerpicking synonymously, others use the latter to connote one or more of those genres.
*3.) As a technique, it does not exclude the use of picks--only flatpicks, held between the thumb and forefinger. Many fingerstyle musicians attach picks to individual fingers, or use a combination of thumbpick and fingers.
That's a starting point. We can build from there.  --Pleather 17:07, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You have my stamp of approval. (Plus you seem willing to do the work, and are therefore less lazy than I.) +ILike2BeAnonymous 18:18, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Actually the flatpick may be used in place of a thumbpick. The pick is held betweeen the thumb and forefinger as usual but the middle and possibly the ring finger take on picking duties.The Smilodon 01:56, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes; I think of that as kind of a hybrid of flatpicking and fingerpicking. 02:38, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, there's already an article on that technique: Hybrid picking. I will most definitely link to it. --Pleather 03:26, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Aaargh, just what we need, another article. I think it should be merged into this one as well. What do you think? +ILike2BeAnonymous 05:22, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

text: One more thing: if the article ends up being merged into Fingerstyle guitar, then Fingerpicking should become a redirect to it. +ILike2BeAnonymous 02:38, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Consensus on changes to article 

message: Plugged in a short (but not too stubby, I hope) section that links to the slack key article-in-progress. RLetson 22:00, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Slack key

message: I'm a fingerstyle guitarist and I've never heard of Percussive Fingerstyle. I don't NECESSARILY think it's a bogus category. Maybe there are enough folks like Preston Reed and Kaki King and obviously the late Michael Hedges to define this as a category. If we go with it we should mention Hedges and FLAMENCO, where folks have been percussive on the guitar for 150 years or so. What do you all think? Dalemi 00:30, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems to be an emerging category label--what we used to call "tapping" or "slapping" and associate with Hedges and Reed. A quick & dirty Google shows some uses of "percussive" as an ordinary adjective that describes a technique and some that are clearly meant to describe a style or school of playing--there's a how-to article in a recent Acoustic Guitar magazine with that as the title. I suspect that this heading in a Wiki article is the leading edge of a newish way of talking about the style. RLetson 17:56, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Percussive Fingerstyle? 

message: Can someone supply sources for Lang, Kress, and Van Eps as fingerstyle players? The recordings I've heard all sound pick-based, but I'm willing to be corrected on this. (My suspicion is that for these players fingerstyle was the exception--as was the case with Django, who recorded a couple fingerstyle solos.) In fact, even the Joe Pass reference would benefit from a source or example (from liner notes or a video, for example), since much of Pass's work is pickstyle. Breau, I think, can safely be left as is. Unmentioned (and quite significant) are Laurindo Almeida and Charlie Byrd, along with the whole South American and African schools (Baden Powell, Bola Sete). RLetson 17:03, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fingerstyle jazz query

message: I've changed the heading "Notable fingerstyle players" to "Well-known fingerstyle players", because too many names are being added to the list that, with all due respect, are for people who have yet to establish true fame in this field. I think it makes sense to limit it to those with substantial, high-profile careers as prominent artists whose style is predominantly fingerstyle.-- P L E A T H E R talk 05:54, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Well-known" instead of "notable" 

message: I have put in a request for this article to be merged with fingerstyle guitar, a administrator will be coming to do this as it wouldn't let me move it.--Mikeoman 12:58, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  merger with fingerpicking 

message: Ok, i've merged the two articles together, the admin guys said (and I quote!) copy and paste into the article your want to be merged into, i've emailed the guys and asked them to make fingerstyle guitar into a redirect and i'm awaiting their reply.
Now just so you all know- I've tweaked the introduction so it can refer to any instrument- however as my expertise only lies within the guitar, I won't do any other instruments the discredit by attempting to blag, I do feel however the need to ask the bassists, banjoists, violinists- if they feel they need a place within this article as was brought up previously.--Mikeoman 16:20, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The two articles are now merged 

message: Who keeps on deleting Lindsey Buckingham from the list of fingerstyle guitar players?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.64.198.188 (talk) 04:40, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you had read the edit history, or posted here sooner, you'd know why. It's because, according to at least one editor, Lindsey Buckingham is not a fingerpicking specialist. The list is for specialists. Please present your case that Lindsey Buckingham is a fingerstyle specialist, not merely a player who happens to use fingerpicking from time to time. - furrykef (Talk at me) 12:40, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: On the fingerstyle guitar main page before the list of players, it says "The following musicians primarily use fingerstyle playing, rather than other methods (flat-picking, strumming, etc.) of playing guitar." I do not see the word fingerstyle specialist in that description. By the way Lindsey Buckingham doesn't use fingerpicking 'from time to time'; he fingerpicks all of the time. I've never seen him use a pick.
I'm reverting to earlier language, to make this even clearer. Lindsey Buckingham is not a solo performer. -- P L E A T H E R talk 21:42, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Technically speaking no, as he does have a backing band, but he has released albums and toured outside of Fleetwood Mac.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.64.198.188 (talk) 00:25, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please understand: what we're trying to do here is to keep this from devolving into a list of every rock star who ever touched fingers to strings. Anyone who lays down the pick is using the technique of fingerstyle; what we're after here are musicians who specialize in the genres created by that technique: musicians like Michael Hedges or Andy McKee, who have devoted their lives to getting an incredible array of sounds out of a single guitar. Lindsey Buckingham has written some songs with fingerpicked parts ("Landslide", to name a very popular one), but he's an ensemble player, not a one-man show. -- P L E A T H E R talk 01:00, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lindsey Buckingham 

message: I think the list just does not work. There's constant quibbling over who does and does not belong, and I don't think it's right that we often simply delete things that are added out of order instead of simply reordering them (even though I've done it myself a few times). I think everyone has a different idea of what belongs in the list -- even with the caveat that it's about fingerstyle specialists -- and it doesn't do terribly much good. Any of the really, really notable players like Knopfler and Atkins can be, and already are, mentioned elsewhere.
I already deleted the list from the article. Of course, it's not hard to restore it if you really, really think it should be there... - furrykef (Talk at me) 16:56, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Good idea. Lists should be banned from most articles. It would be wiser to provide a context, and not names only.--Jo (talk) 17:49, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Yup. After months and months of grappling with people putting their favorite rock god in there, I've come to the same conclusion. If we want to point people to exemplary fingerstylists, we can do so by mentioning them in the context of the article itself. Even if the list didn't get abused, it would just grow to the point where it overwhelmed the article, and I don't see the point in that. Kudos for performing the incision.  -- P L E A T H E R talk 19:12, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Let's just delete the list of fingerstyle players 

message: Where in the scheme of things here would a master finger picking rocker like Mark Knopfler fit?  Regardless of what you or I think of Rolling Stone Magazine's top 100 guitarists list, he is prominent in standing in the top bunch on the list, so...  ?  Thanks.  --leahtwosaints (talk) 01:47, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If you have a clear idea of the place of rock/pop musicicians who play with fingers, why not insert an appropriate paragraph or section? There is some sentiment here against seeing rock guitarists as "fingerstylists" in the same sense that, say, Michael Hedges was, but I for one would be willing to see a well-sourced position that locates Knopfler, Lindsey Buckingham, and others whose techniques might fit in with the acoustic, classical, and jazz traditions outlined here. I suppose one criterion for including a player/technique would be how the fingerpicking in question affects the music: is it polyphonic or just pickless single lines or hybrid-style double-stops? For example, I wouldn't call Wes Montgomery a fingerstyle player, since he just substituted his thumb for a flatpick. RLetson (talk) 23:46, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Um.  Mark Knopfler? 

message: Let me start by saying that I'm not a musicologist, and I would only call myself a music historian in a very narrow sub-field, but I've been playing guitar & banjo since 1959, and "fingerstyle" since 1963, and have done some research on what it is that I'm trying to do.  I'm not out to get the article re-written from my POV; I'm just going to point out some definitions and declarations that I think need re-thinking.
First, the definition of fp as using the right hand to play what would "normally be played by several band members" is odd.  The three notes of an arpeggiated chord, for example, are not "normally" played on different instruments, are they?  Yes, you can get bass and treble notes from fp, but it just seems off the mark to use that to define the style.  IMO, the point is that the thumb and fingers are used individually or in combination to render single notes, as opposed to strumming entire chords at one time.  Period.
Flat-pickers can play individual notes or whole chords, so the distinction between flat- and finger-picking is not what's hit, just how you hit it.
Is "percussive fp" really a style, or is it a technique?  I hit the strings or the box or both in a couple of songs.  Does that make me a percussion style player?  There's  thing called a huapanga that goes down-up-knock-knock.  I use it on the first verse of "Pancho and Lefty."  Then I go to a rasqueado-based classical pattern for the rest of the song.  To my mind, I am neither a percussive fingerpicker nor a classical guitar player; I am simply using a variety of techniques. 
Maybe it's true that more fp-ers use steel strings, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with nylon strings for fp-ing, especially if you want a mellow sound.  I would think this would be especially true since the development of "high tension" nylon strings.
I am curious about "the list," and wish I had seen it before it went away.  John Fahey is, IMO, a top-level musician and I have nothing against him, but I'm looking for the whole story, which I think involves Albert Schultz [Schurtz ??] whom I can't elaborate on right now because I can't find sources without the right spelling of his name.  But as I understand it, he was a pioneer of fingerpicking and was playing around the year 1900.  I will research that and hopefully somebody else will find him first and save me the trouble.
Oh, finally, to me finger- and thumb-style are distinct.  I have the greatest admiration for thumbers, who are doing something a proverbial quantum leap above mere fp.  
"Pattern picking," in the usage I know, is fp limited to background patterns (no emphasized melody).  As soon as you start stressing or adding the melody notes to play an "instrumental break," you have gone beyond pattern picking in the strict sense.  You're still in the fp realm, but you've added a melody to the rhythm accompaniment.
[Sounded dangerously like the definition I rejected to start with, didn't it.  But a piano player plays melody and accompaniment too, and I wouldn't define piano playing that way.]
Sorry for such a long post.
Terry J. Carter (talk) 00:27, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Definitions Questioned (Heresy) 

message: What category does Paul Simon fit in or folk-jazz Davey Graham.
Most fingerstyle players are not composer-lyricist-singers like Simon but his fingerstlye guitar is an essential element of his folk-jazz-rock composing.--Dcrasno (talk) 20:23, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  What about Paul Simon? 

message: The currenty layout is quite peculiar, with an intoduction to the steel-strings
styles immediately followed by  discussion of nylon-string. I think a stucture of major sections and sub-sections is needed, like:
Fingerpicking
    Travis picking 
    American primitive guitar
    Ragtime guitar
Other steel string styles
    New Age" fingerstyle
    Folk baroque
    Slack-key guitar
    Percussive fingerstyle
    Fingerstyle jazz guitar
Nylon String styles
    Classical guitar fingerstyle
    Flamenco guitar fingerstyle
1Z (talk) 17:34, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Structure

message: This list at the end of electic fingerstyle is problematic:
*appearing right at the end casual readers (and editors it seems) can take it to be a list of all influential players, or just of jazz players (format actually suggests all electric players)
*because there are no references there is no criteria for inclusion, leading to several edit changes and revisions
*Wikipedia generally discourages long lists Wikipedia:Lists
*Most of the players here are already mentioned in the text. 
Can we dispense with this, perhaps placing those not already mentioned into the text where possible?--Sabrebd (talk) 07:08, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed 1Z (talk) 10:34, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed - I'm not sure that Stephen Malkmus is known for his electric fingerstyle technique. Pklala (talk) 05:12, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Some notable guitarists list

message: The second external reference, titled "Fingerstyle Guitar Magazine (online features and resources)", has a url of http://fingerstyleguitar.com/html/fsg_olf.htm .  This is a dead link.  Just try it.  Error 404 page not found.  Anyway, may I suggest that it link to this url:  http://www.fingerstyleguitar.com .  Goes to the same place but is not a dead link.  Thanks for considering my suggestion.  -Kevin 99.14.81.32 (talk) 03:32, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for pointing this out. As this is essentially a link to a commercial product it would almost certainly fail the criteria for WP:External links. I have deleted the dead link and suggest we leave it at that as it was not an inline citation supporting a statement.--SabreBD (talk) 09:15, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead Link in External References 

message: I stopped reading this article as soon as I reached, "Fingerpicking originated from the classical guitar..." What nonsense. Numerous European string instruments used in early classical music were intended to be played without a plectrum or bow centuries prior to the "modern" classical guitar. This article clearly has plenty of original research. Pfff... I'll read it some other time.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.117.214.104 (talk) 05:39, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Right... 

message: The article needs some mention of the Latin American and African traditions.1Z (talk) 14:37, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Missing genres

message: Can the article be edited so as to not suggest that every person plays the guitar right-handed? Or does this technique for some reason not work if you play left-handed? 173.160.130.14 (talk) 00:42, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Handedness 

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