Talk:Brigham Young University/Archive 1

message: It seems to be time for someone to make a BYU Cougars page just for athletics. The football section on this page was once just the natl champ and Heisman, but it is getting rather large. Many schools have a separate page for athletics.
JefeDeJefes 16:08, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. — John 16:45, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Athletics

message: I added an article for Heritage Halls.  Perhaps others could go further in adding articles for the others? jj 23:51, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Heritage Halls

message: We now have three mottos listed as BYU's motto. Seems odd to have three mottos, doesn't it? There are no citations. Elder Henry B. Eyring seems to think BYU's motto is, "Enter to learn. Go forth to serve." So how about we figure out what the real motto is? Or are there really three??? --tortdog 20:28, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Motto

message: Any images add to the articles, so I was glad to see the addition of some images of the campus. But, and this is just an opinion, I think the images would beautify the article more if they were interspersed with the text, such as the images in the Rachel Corrie article are. —Frecklefoot 21:03, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Be my guest.  I couldn't figure out how to get it to look right. Lunkwill 00:39, 13 Feb 2004 (UTC)

text: Looks great! Lunkwill 19:37, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)

text: I meant to have said there: "Any objections to changing it? If not, suggestions on which picture shold be changed (and to what other picture) would be greatly appreciated!" Sorry about the confusion. Firefeather 17:04, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Images

message: Under "Notable Alumni" section, "Sports/Basketball" subsection, one Brent Andrus was listed as a "really good intramural basketball player".  I'm assuming that this is unnecessary and a possible case of vandalism/self-promoting joke. I couldn't find any substantial references to Brent Andrus on the internet, certainly none that would lead me to believe that he is a notable alumni of BYU.  Plus, since when is being a good intramural basketball player cause for labeling oneself as famous?  If there is reasonable cause to have Mr. Andrus in there, put it back.  But for now I'm removing the line. - Doxster 06:06 08 April 2006
:I think that's what happened was that no one noticed it.  Obviously, it's promotion, but the BYU page is large and there are many topics and the page changes often (including the occasional vandal).  You're right on for removing it.  Thanks! — John 17:07, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Really good intramural basketball player? 

message: Should we move the Notable Alumni to a new, separate Wikipedia entry?JackWilliams 00:18, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I should say yes. Bo-Lingua 03:29, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

text: I, too, would be for this. — John 20:45, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, I did it.  JackWilliams 08:24, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Notable Alumni

message: Commented out from the main article in re "B-Y-Zoo" & "Zoobie."
:[can someone research the origins of these terms and how they relate to BYU Culture?  Is BYU zoo-like because the students are "animals?" Because they smell?  Because of similarity to the reproductive characteristics of zoo animals?  Because it is fun to tour campus and throw peanuts at the captives?]
Cool Hand Luke 03:03, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I dug out an old book I have published in 1980 called "Zoobie or Not Zoobie?" by Robert Gloat.  In the foreward is states "The word was derived from the phrase BY Zoo . . . the original connotation referred to the wide variety of students attending the school."  I'm not sure how true that is, but it sounds as plausible as anything else. Alanraywiki 03:22, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Zoobie" Etymology 

message: I took out the quote that said utah was number one in teen pregnancy.  Its really 47th (see Utah).  Is it just me or is this article incredibly biased and misinformed?  It seems like there are 2 or 3 issues that take way too much precidence on this page. 71.36.74.82 08:11, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: After a quick check, it seems you are right.  Can anyone corroborate the rape/larceny stat?  Rape may be higher in Provo, but the instance of rape at BYU is much less.  I'm going to flag it as unverified pending removal. ekimd 15:54, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  It is true that the rape/larceny stats are for Provo as a whole. If you look at the revision before the more specific stats were added, the article carried a blanket statement that "According to the Uniform Crime Reports, crime is low; violent crime is also low." The UCR numbers for Provo are available at  and are cited. (Currently as footnote #23). The crime stats cited in this paragraph have always been for Provo. Federally mandated campus crime statistics provided by BYU show 0 rapes in 2004, compare to the UCR report for Provo which says 44. Incidents like this one  emphasize why crime stats for Provo matter more than stats for BYU. A woman can be raped twice in BYU-approved housing, read the story on BYU's NewsNet, and yet the official BYU rape metric stays at zero. Oasisbob 22:51, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, that makes sense for the rape stat, but what about the larceny stat?  According to your link, Provo is below the national average. ekimd 14:08, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right, the 2005 data shows larceny as below the national average. I'm having trouble finding the 2004 data, but my guess is that the new data (released around october) for 2005 was rotated in recently, and larceny dropped as compared to the past. Oasisbob 22:37, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Pregnancy in Utah and Crime

message: This article seems to have a heavy anti-BYU and anti-Mormon bias.  Someone who knows more about this school than I do should try to make sure that both sides are fairly represented.
: I don't detect any. I don't now much about either but I don't get any anti- bias. Well unless you consider listing info on the honor code, marriage rates etc a anti- bias which I don't (I'm assuming it's accurate) Nil Einne 20:05, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Balance

message: I removed the part that says that the distribution of different sexual orientations is unknown because of that very reason.  The purpose of an encyclopedia is to state what IS known, not what is NOT known. -Gandalf 23:53, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sexual Orientation

message: Sugardaddy removed "The school's strict Honor Code does not require LGBT non-member students and faculty to remain in the closet, so long as they are strictly celibate, or they are monogamous within a legal heterosexual marriage. There is, nonetheless, a strong current against deviation from the LDS Church's norms." saying (No need for paragraph being included in the student demographics. No major colleges have these statistics on their site).  I disagree with this deletion on the grounds that BYU is a largely unique institution, and its policies are very dissimilar from colleges of many other christian institutions.  The LDS Church, and by extension, BYU maintain a strong "moral" stance on LGBT issues, and it is thus pertinent to the atmosphere and setup of the University.  Bo-Lingua 17:43, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well said, and let's keep it the way it is. — John 19:36, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: SugarDaddy's Edit

message: I removed this information because it is not relevant for this or any other universirty unless stated university is specifically a GLBT institution. This paragraph has been added by someone with a GLBT agenda. You can see this by their edits to other wiki articles.  This comment by Sugardaddy.
That's a good point.  If this is an ongoing thing, then I agree with your deletion.  If it's simply because you don't necessarily want LGBT information on the BYU page, I would disagree.  I will then retract the above and we'll let the page sit as it is. Bo-Lingua 18:53, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well said, and let's keep it the way it is. — John 19:36, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of LGBT information 

message: Should it be noted that Helaman Halls over the past few years has been completely gutted and remodled? Other than the buildings' foundations, framework, and names there is little left of the original construction.
-- Kail Ceannai 04:20, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Helaman Halls Remodeling

message: BYU hosts weekly religious devotionals and academic forums, which are broadcast live by satellite.  All campus business adjourns at 11:00am on Tuesdays to permit students and faculty to attend these devotionals.  I find these to be a very enriching aspect of academic life at BYU.  The article does not mention these.  Can we add?  Brownsteve 03:35, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Brownsteve, good idea, I think devtionals are unique enough to merit place in the article.  JackWilliams 01:49, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Weekly devotionals / forums 

message: I think that the undergraduate accounting program is the only one at BYU that has consistently been ranked in the top 5 in the country.  I am aware of the recent BusinessWeek ranking for the entire business program (at #8 in the nation, I believe), but I that high ranking was probably due to the accounting program.  BYU's finance and general business programs are probably not in the top 10 in the US.  JackWilliams 01:49, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In connection with the current dispute on whether it's relevant to compare BYU's selectivity to other similar universities, someone inserted it's #70 ranking (and did so in his explanation that BYU wasn't that hot). That's fine (though the comment shows bias on his part). I moved the rankings to the relevant section (on rankings) from admissions. --tortdog 21:47, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Academic Rankings 

message: Why is this issue important enough to be included at such depth in an online encyclopedia? The most it should have say about it, imho, is in connection with BYU being a private university: "BYU has in the past disciplined faculty for bla bla bla. BYU maintains such discipline is within its rights as a private university, although others contend it shows a limit of academic freedom" - Add a few external citations and be done with it. The extremely long section feels very out of place in this entry. --Ryan Gardner 23:20, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You can't really reduce the level of detail, consistent with Wikipedia policy, without budding-out a new sub-article. But I don't think the section warrants its own article yet. In the meantime, the only remedy is to fill out more detail in the other sections to balance things out. COGDEN 01:04, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Point taken. --04:14, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Why in the introduction? I discussed this regarding Catholic University (and Tulane), and it was agreed including this in the introduction to a university showed bias, when it was explained in the document itself. This is NOT a major issue. It does NOT hit the news. It, in fact, is somewhat dated. If including censure information is "bias" for Catholic University and Tulane, it should be perceived as "bias" here and this should be removed from the intro and kept in the body. --tortdog 19:59, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

text: We have about nine paragraphs on this issue in the relevant section. That's more than any other university censured by this group. And I've deleted the redundant information from the introductory paragraphs, as it is NOT a major issue and is ALREADY thoroughly discussed. Removal from the intro mirrors the treatment to other universities. I still suggest that this information be pared down, in line with that of other university articles. tortdog 12:43, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I suggest that this info stay in the lead.  It is very relevant to BYU.  The other universities that are censured should have the same info in their leads.  Wikipedia is all about conveying relevant information, not hiding it.  Tort Dawg 21:05, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Have you tried fighting this issue with the other university articles? I have discussed this with them, and came to agree that it's NOT that big of an issue, to present in an introduction. Already, the information on the censure on BYU FAR exceeds that in other articles. We are WAY over the top on this. tortdog 21:39, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

text: A similar issue is being discussed at article discussion page. Some have opined that any discussion of specifics on academic freedom controversies should be rather limited, as the article is about the university and not about the controversies. I am inclined to agree, thinking that this portion of the article needs to be reduced, such that it no longer takes up 10% of the article text. If you disagree, then please put in your comments at UCB's discussion page, so that we treat the universities equally. tortdog 15:22, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have created an Academic freedom at Brigham Young University article and linked it to this one. We may want rely on the link to explain the specifics, and confine this article's coverage to a summary. Wrad 03:24, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Why is this issue given so much detail?