Talk:Macedonian Canadians

message: According to Bulgarian government sources it is "Macedono-Bulgarian", the caption is disputed. . Mr. Neutron 13:56, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed disputed image

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:MacedoniansProtest.jpg

message: This page should be moved back to its original title of Macedonian Canadians. 
Macedonian Canadian and Macedonian Candians have many more google hits than this title. BalkanFever 08:42, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I second that motion. Köbra Könverse 13:44, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

text: Even so, the word "ethnic" (seeing as "Slav" is "offensive") should appear somewhere per the main article location, to distinguish from other groups of Macedonian Canadians. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· (talk) 13:49, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

text: I double Kekrops and let me turn your attention to the fact that this way you exclude all the people that are from Ethnic Macedonian descent. Most of them are second or third generation of people that emigrated to the country and can hardly be described as pure Ethnic Macedonians. --Laveol T 13:54, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: What are you two on about? Who, besides you, mentioned ethnicity? Or anything for that fact. Before you go babbling on about whether or not we find the word "Slav" offensive, you should consider asking "why" BalkanFever suggested a move. Capisce? Köbra Könverse 00:29, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: What are you on about? If this article isn't about a specific Slavic ethnic group possessing Canadian citizenship, what is it about? Certainly not about these Macedonian Canadians. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· (talk) 07:11, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There you have it, you just said yourself that the article implies ethnicity, so why the disambiguation? Macedonian Canadians is enough, as everyone except for Greeks, ofcourse, use it as an ethnic term. If I were you, I wouldn't bother contradicting myself anymore. Move the article and if you have no other affairs to meddle in, do some origami or something. Köbra Könverse 09:21, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The article doesn't imply ethnicity; it is entirely about ethnicity, and the title should reflect that. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· (talk) 10:04, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh my friggin' God. If the article is about the ethnic group, which it is, Why have "Ethnic" Macedonian Canadians? If the article was referring to citizens from Greek Macedonia and they weren't "Slavomacedonian", as you like to say, then they would be ethnically Greek, no? Therefore, as the article is specifically about the ethnic group, "Ethnic" should be omitted. Jesus, the people you have to deal with... I have nothing else to say, except; I rest my case. Köbra Könverse 11:36, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

text: Hmmm, and how? You mean they feel like Ethnic Macedonians? --Laveol T 12:19, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

text: First you had Macedonian Slavs moved to Macedonians (ethnic group) because you found the term Slav "offensive". Then you said Skopjans was "offensive", even when used by individual editors on talk pages as an alternative to the self-identifying term which they find offensive. Now you reject even the "ethnic" qualifier in favour of plain "Macedonian". I suppose the natural conclusion is to move Macedonians (ethnic group) to plain Macedonians. And then you say you're not monopolizing the name. Whatever. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· (talk) 12:20, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

text: I'm responding to Laveol, because there's no point responding to the troll. Maybe not as much as the ones in RoM, but they do. That's why they are Macedonian Canadians (i.e. Macedonians + Canadians), not just Macedonians living in Canada. BalkanFever 12:24, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: How about coming up with a valid argument for a change, instead of your characteristic vulgarity? ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· (talk) 12:32, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: KEKP-Omega-Fork, do you read any comments or do you just skim through them? As far as I can tell, you haven't replied to any "valid arguments" we have made, whereas we have responded to your seemingly nonsensical construction of words above, accordingly. I'm only going to say thing once more, because you still have your head in never-Neverland; as "Macedonian" implies a strictly ethnic term in the title (which you admitted) why make it so obvious as to put "Ethnic" at the beginning? Hey, let's put "Ethnic" in front of Greek Americans, you know, incase people become confused. Better yet, let's create an article about Cretan Americans. Think about it, it's not hard. Köbra Könverse 13:03, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you read English? I admitted nothing of the sort. My observation that the article is about a Slavic ethnic group living in Canada pertained to the content, not the title, and was in response to your suggestion that ethnicity was somehow irrelevant. In fact, "Macedonian" is about as far from a "strictly ethnic" term as you can get. (Hint: if you can, count the number of entries under the "In demography" section.) That's precisely the point. If you can't understand that, you can't be helped. As for your "valid arguments", you're going to have to help me locate them in the text. So far, all that is visible to the naked eye is an inane invocation of Google, and your WP:OSE observation that Greek Americans lacks the word "ethnic". The Google "argument" falls short at Macedonians (ethnic group), which isn't at Macedonians despite your best efforts, so why should it have any relevance here? As for why we don't need to call Greek Xs "ethnic" Greeks, the answer is simple; there is no group other than the ethnic that uses that name for itself, let alone, as in this case, a group bigger than the ethnic. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· (talk) 13:18, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

text: "Moreover, in the context of immigrant communities in countries like Canada and Australia, the term Macedonian has come to be pretty much restricted to the ethnic meaning in common English usage, so I see no problem of ambiguity here." On the contrary, it is among the Greeks of the diaspora that the Macedonian regional identity has often been expressed most strongly, given the much greater contact and at times conflict with the "other Macedonians" than would be the case in Greece. In this sense, the expatriate communities "live" the dispute in their own everyday lives, and not just via the talking heads on the evening news. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· (talk) 19:33, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I said "in common English usage". That the members of these groups may have their own views is certainly true, but they can't dictate what the majority of the native English speech communities do. And it is in this general English usage that the term has in fact been "monopolised". You may regret it, but that's how it is. And the conflicts between the communities are of course irrelevant to Wikipedia article naming decisions. As long as there is no other article to disambiguate "Macedonian Canadian" from, there is not even an issue to debate. Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:00, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You're forgetting that the "native English speech communities" include many people who would reject your usage of the term. Considering Melbourne, for example, has the third largest ethnic Greek population of any city in the world, I find your claim that yours is the only "common English usage" to be rather dubious. Of those Australians and Canadians who would actually use the term at all, how many would use it in the Greek sense? I suspect the answer may be far higher than you think. In any case, I must reiterate that I simply don't see why the "common English usage" argument is relevant here but not at Macedonians (ethnic group). Unless you want to move that to Macedonians and ethnically cleanse the disambiguation page. What happened to consistency? ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· (talk) 20:17, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Nothing. "Macedonians" has more than one actual Wikipedia pages that compete for the name, so it gets disambiguated in the title. "Macedonian Canadians" may have competing meanings (for a minority of speakers) in the real world, but it has not more than one Wikipedia page, so it does not get disambiguated in the title. Simple. But anyway, consistency was never Wikipedia's forte. Of course, if you want to move Macedonians (ethnic group) to Macedonians, I'd give some favourable consideration to that... Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:43, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, about that. Does it? Not any more, thanks to you-know-whom. The only article allowed to have "Macedonians" in its title is you-know-what, since these Macedonians were unceremoniously relegated to a subsection of the demographics section of another article. Thus, while we can have "Macedonian Americans", "Macedonian Canadians", "Macedonian Australians", "Ethnic Macedonians in Bulgaria", Albania, Serbia, and São Tomé and Príncipe, the only article to propose an alternative meaning of the term was apparently deemed too much to digest. What a joke. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· (talk) 20:48, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Ancient Macedonians is still there though... Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:10, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I forgot to say "the only article that doesn't refer to a group safely dead and buried". (Even so, that doesn't stop us from having an ancient Rome alongside a Rome.) Still, I wouldn't be surprised if I saw them too merged one day into a perfect indivisible whole. After you preside over the page move, naturally. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· (talk) 21:16, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move  

message: This was the source the previous article was based on:
:http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1ARTA0004890
The article was copied, but this is a good source to restart the article with. Mactruth (talk) 04:37, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source 

message: If anyone has photos they can add, DO IT! Mactruth (talk) 19:37, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Photos

message: I have speedy-deleted the article as a blatant copyvio from canadianencyclopedia.com. The full text of the article was copied, from its very earliest versions. Please rewrite from scratch. Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:32, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyvio: Article deleted 

message: Hi, although i haven't edited the article previously i have restarted it after it was deleted. I will add to it when i have more time. PMK1 (talk) 01:55, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, but please be careful to not just paraphrase the same source again. Your current text is again very close to the source and still verges on being plagiarism. Please write something more independent of the structure and wording of the source. Oh, and please check whether the text shouldn't better be credited to "Canadian Encyclopedia" rather than "Macedonian History", the former seems to be its original hosting site. Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:06, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  i will try to find other sources and will not reference the "Canada Encyclopedia" as much, although it is a v. good source. :). PMK1 (talk) 06:56, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  No Deletion 

message: The reason why Macedonians identified themselves as Bulgarians was because during World War 2, Macedonia was under Bulgarian occupation, and as you might know Bulgaria was with the Axis powers. When we were under their occupation, a person could be jailed or killed for calling himself a Macedonian and not a Bulgarian. Besides that, there was a propoganda system developed within the education system as well where it would be a routine for one child to say sentences in which he/she would call him/herself a Bulgarian. Just to clear this up...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.162.63.62 (talk) 23:49, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Macedonian Canadians are not Bulgarians 

message: I ordered them alphabetically and added a brief description for each, hope you like it! Mactruth (talk) 14:09, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hellas719, that is BS and you know it. There are thousands of people that identify themselves as Ethnic Macedonians from Aegean Macedonia (today in Greece), and it is the same for the people who immigrated to Canada. One of the greatest Macedonian activists in Toronto has the last name of Daikopolous, and is from Voden/Edessa, never been to R.Macedonia in his life, but he never claimed to be anything but an Ethnic Macedonian. That is, he is Greek CITIZEN (has Greek Passport), but is Macedonian ETHNICALLY. This article is not supposed to be about the Canadians with origins from R.Macedonia but about Canadians who have ETHNIC MACEDONIAN origins, and feel that way, regardless of which part of the Geographic region of Macedonia they come from. Thus, you should put back the names (greek-sounding, because of your Metaxas)of the Macedonian Canadians who are of Ethnic Macedonian origin (self-determine in that way) and are Canadian citizens. Capricornis (talk) 18:44, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable Mak Cans 

message: There appears to be an error on this section. There appears to be under this list names of Greek people. Such as the following
Steve Stavro - Businessman and philanthropist
Chris Kotsopoulos NHL player
Steve Staios - NHL player
Steven Stamkos - NHL player
Michael Zigomanis - NHL player
I have attempted numerous times to change the list by removing the following listed, but have been reverted numerous times. In order to not create a
revert war I have decided to take this issue to the talk page. So I ask why are Greeks added to a page that has to do with a branch of Slavs? I am positive that many more people would like this to be changed.
Soccershoes1 (talk) 02:44, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: None of them are Greek. That's why you're being reverted. --Local hero talk 02:50, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

text: Take a look at each person's article. You'll see a referenced fact on each one stating that the individual has Macedonian ethnicity. They do have Greek-looking names, though I assume that has to do with them being from Aegean Macedonia and nothing to do with their ethnicities. --Local hero talk 15:31, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

text: I'd like to see one of these many sources. And, yes, I claim that just because someone has a Greek-sounding name does not mean they are of Greek ethnicity. --Local hero talk 14:57, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

text: Go read a book, so you might find out. In the meantime, stop wasting our time. Fut.Perf. ☼ 06:45, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable "Macedonian" Canadians