Talk:Characters of the Final Fantasy VII series/Archive 2

message: The previous version of the Final Fantasy VII Characters talk page has been archived in order to shadow the new format of the article. Please feel free to raise any issues you may have with the article before editing the article vastly.Gavin Scott 01:52, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Talk Page Archived

message: As discussed in the previous version of the talk page the order was set in the order a character joins the party, and in the case of optional characters in the order you can gain them, this is fairly controversial it seems and as such discussion on it will no doubt resurface. 
The argument itself seemed to stem from whether Areith or Tifa was the cheif-heroine which by the game itself is largely up to the player. As such we have put the characters in order of joining the party, but should we reach an agreement on who should be placed where then I won't personally object to that and will support the decission we make.Gavin Scott 01:52, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Order of Main Characters

message: Scanning through the article again I noiticed that the section "main playable characters" only includes playable characters from the original FFVII. As no distinction is made between FFVII and its spin-offs it would seem correct that all characters who can be played should be in the main playable section. However I doubt anyone will be in favour of this, thus perhaps the page should make more distinction about what part of the Compilation it is refering too. For example in the Crisis Core section you might expect it to have a sub-section of main-playable characters and then other main characters and so on.Gavin Scott 01:57, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Should Article Be Reformatted?

message: This was something originally noted by some users on the Japanese message board 2ch, but there seems to be some differences in the way their relationship is presented in the Japanese and English versions. Some things, like when they first meet, in the English version, Aerith calls Zack her first boyfriend, however in the Japanese version, she calls him her first crush. There also seems to be a bit of confusion as to just how long they were in a relationship, and whether or not they were actually "dating", since they apparantly only go on the one date together. However, there are some indications that Zack may have considered her his girlfriend for as much as two years. I edited the article slightly to something a bit more amibiguous. I don't have the means or sources to research it personally, but perhaps it's something that can be looked into and clarified (or perhaps a wait and see approach should be taken, with Crisis Core looming on the horizon, and the possibilities of clarifications and/or retcons). WtW-Suzaku 20:27, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Zack and Aeriths' Relationship

message: His fate has still not been proven/disproven by anyone.  It cannot just be stated that he is dead when the narritive never shows this in the actual game.  Is it not in the Ultimania?
(138.253.205.70 16:22, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Bugenhagen

message: I feel a significant number of articles need to be merged into this list, despite their minor appearences in the other compilation pages. They do not have enough out of universe attribution to stand on their own as articles:
*AVALANCHE — the organization and its members can be summed up in a couple paragraphs
*Zack Fair — not a massively significant character. I see zero information about development, popularity, influence, etc.
*Lucrecia Crescent — again, a minor character only apart of backstory
*Professor Hojo — a fairly significant antagonist, but mostly in the context of other characters
The page is really looking good, though; it just needs a lot of in-universe information merged. — Deckiller 20:49, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Merged all these characters-begin work on DoC tomorrow.Gavin Scott 23:02, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Character merges

message: Is it really necessary to have a bulleted list of all the named minor characters in the game? For example, the Characters of Final Fantasy VIII article hardly lists minor characters, except for a few prominant SeeD and other recurring minors. If that section can be chopped, that leaves much more room for more merges and less time needed referencing. — Deckiller 00:06, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Awesome. Also, I'll start working on development and criticism sections when I have the chance; if I don't, then I'll point you to some good sources if you need them. — Deckiller 21:50, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Eventually, when we have the Gaia (Final Fantasy VII) article, it will have most of the FF7 articles merged into it (hopefully including Shinra). Then, we can just move all the character bios to this page. That'll help with the formatting. — Deckiller 21:57, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I may sound impatient, but methinks works on Characters of Final Fantasy VIII has stalled due to a stall at Wikipedia:Good article candidates. Once it reaches GA status, we're going to aim for FAC hopefully. By the way, I started the reorganization. — Deckiller 22:31, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Minor character bullet list?

message: I don't ever remember hearing he has a last name...--24.109.218.172 00:16, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It was revealed in Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII, Tetsuya Normura said the name is supposed to be an allusion to "fair weather", to work as a pun with "Cloud" (inclement or stormy weather).  Neat, huh? Nall 01:34, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: See Common themes of Final Fantasy: yes, he uses a lot of weather names.  --—ΔαίδαλοςΣ 23:48, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Zack has a last name? 

message: Like what has happened with other FFs, it's time to merge all characters into this article. Mrmoocow 06:49, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It might be difficult to do so with FF7, because of all the (pointless, ridiculous, and absolutely sickening) spin-offs making up the so-called "compilation of Final Fantasy VII" giving the characters with more to talk about. Ideally, I'd like to see all these poorly developed and cliche characters in one article myself, but it might end up making the page quite long, sadly. Yes, I dislike FF7 :)
The articles I think can be merged into this list are Shinra (characters), the Turks, Jenova, and pretty much all but the playable characters and Sephiroth. — Deckiller 00:05, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I dislike FF7 too... well, not really. It's not my favourite FF, I much prefer FFIX and FFVI. But it is better than FFVIII... anyway, I see where you're coming from. However, the way to do it is strip off all redundant, unneccessary, or just downright removable information from each of the characters, and once small enough, merge. Mrmoocow 06:21, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

text: What I mean is, do it with ALL THE CHARACTERS INCLUDING SEPHIROTH AND THE PLAYABLES. It's what they've done with most of the other FFs; why not 7? Mrmoocow 00:46, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Some of those Compilation of FFVII characters can probably either be removed or just mentioned once in their respective game's articles in the Plot and setting>Characters section. Kariteh 07:28, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

text: The character section of the Shinra article. The rest of the article can probably be merged into a World of Final Fantasy VII article that would encompass Materia, Midgar, Timeline, Terms, etc. — Deckiller 20:27, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Time to merge

message: The article says he was "possibly named after the German philosopher Martin Heidegger (1889-1976), or after the protagonist of the same name in Nathaniel Hawthorne's short story "Dr. Heidegger's Experiment". Wouldn't it make sense for it to be the former rather than the latter? Martin Heidegger apparantly became a member of the Nazi party popular during part of his lifetime, so that association to fascism sounds more likely than an old doctor who obtains water from the fountain of youth. (Source: .) The FF Heidegger's weight insecurity could be a tenuous link to that whole "age" thing, however...
In any case, does anyone have more info on this? He's a minor character but they might have mentioned it in an interview or the Ultimania guide. Kennard2 00:38, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Heidegger's name origin 

message: Ugh... the article correctly states they are remnants of Sephiroth and it lists which part of Sephiroth they are each associated with... but under Kadaj it says they are all Sephiroth clones made by Hojo. There is absolutely no evidence of that. They are NOT Sephiroth copies though. The clones/copies are nearly mindless and numbered. The SHM are not. They'd have to have been failures like Cloud, but the existence of more failures seems like it would have been mentioned in FF7 had there been any. And with Hojo dead, he could not have made more clones. They are 'shinentai'. "It is most commonly used to identify spirits that manifest a physical form to remain in the world. These normally do have a strong will to finish unfinished business." The use of that term in the Japanese seems to also dispell the 'clone' idea. I'm thinking the comment near the end of Kadaj's little description may have been merely overlooked by whoever added their information to this article. I'm going to remove that line. It said "cloe" instead of "clone" anyways so it will get rid of that spelling error as well. Please do not add back that line without some sort of evidence. 71.120.201.39 15:07, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  sephiroth's remnants 

message: :Image:Scarlet.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 21:51, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Scarlet.JPG

message: Hay everyone I am cleaning up the articles a little.  If you dispute any edits, please help me out!  --Rebent 20:55, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: it needs some serious cleanup! all this sexual innuendo graffiti for example...Spacelion 00:38, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That would be simple vandalism, not legitimate content. Axem Titanium 00:57, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: cleanup

message: :Yuffie, Cid, Jenova, and Turks are the last mergers that should probably be done, the rest of the characters can stand on their own. After that, the article can focus on getting to GA status. Thoughts? Judgesurreal777 15:33, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Completing merger stuff

message: Why cant all the playable main characters just have their own articles? It means that theres more information on the page... Bit pointless trying to cram it all in on one huge page really... 01lander 17:03, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi. Please read WP:N and WP:FICT. Characters don't have separate pages because we like it or don't like it; their treatment depends on precise guidelines and policies. Kariteh 16:42, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Option

message: I just removed some really, really, really incidental characters and commented out a few others. About those others (Johnny, Godo, Seto, Zangan), I want to discuss a bit more before removing. Johnny is mentioned in Case of Denzel and IIRC, Zangan is in Last Order. Godo and Seto are part of Yuffie's and Red's backstories respectively. Now that I think about it, I think Johnny can be mentioned with the main On the Way to a Smile paragraph (if absolutely necessary, but likely, no). Zangan, Godo, and Seto can be merged into Tifa's, Yuffie's and Red's sections, respectively. Axem Titanium 01:52, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  REALLY minor characters 

message: As debated hundreds of times elsewhere, on many, many articles, the policy stands that the use of images on character lists to depict individual characters is not acceptable. An example of one of these debates is available here. Please do not re-add the images. They are not acceptable and the inclusion of them is against policy. -Hammersoft (talk) 04:19, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have added three key images that each depict a large number of characters and follows the precedent established at Characters of Kingdom Hearts. Axem Titanium (talk) 21:32, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The first two are ok. The third I've removed because it's a montage of four other non-free content images. That's a violation. Sorry. --Hammersoft (talk) 00:21, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've uploaded a new version of the image, which is a straight crop from the magazine scan that I got it from (). The previous version wasn't really a montage in the first place because it was from the same magazine image (I rearranged it a little to save space but if you insist, I can leave it as the vertical crop). Axem Titanium (talk) 03:01, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image removal 

message: I was looking through the article and it has come on leaps and bounds. However, I still think that perhaps we should reconsider the Main Playable Character Section. To me it seems out of sync with the rest of the article. After all this is really Characters of the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII. What I propose is that we treat the entire compilation as a whole, not FFVII PSOne Game, then Compilation, which is what it looks like now. So I think it should be.
*Central Characters
Cloud
Aerith
Vincent
Zack
*Secondary Characters
Tifa
Barret
Red VIII
Cait Sith
Cid
Yuffie
Sephiroth
Rufus
The Turks
Hojo
Jenova
Kaddaj
* Minor Characters
here you can find the version of this article I would have...Gavin Scott (talk) 00:55, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You know, you can make your own sandbox in your userspace instead of replacing your talk page (example: User:Axem Titanium/Sandbox2). At any rate, I might bump Tifa up to central, or bump Aerith down. Take your pick; they're about the same level. Axem Titanium (talk) 02:10, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Be my guest. No problem. :) Axem Titanium (talk) 03:41, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: right, well I shall go with the change- no doubt there will be some discussion here about it. Gavin Scott (talk) 17:17, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Have we got this right yet?