Talk:List of The Legend of Zelda characters/Archive 1

message: I cleaned up the page earlier today, removing many duplicate wikilinks and the such, but I am almost certain to have missed some, and didn't check the Marin section at all apart from the first sentence, as I am yet to finish Link's Awakening and did not want to ruin anything. Therefore if anyone would be willing to check the Marin section or do a general check for anything I might have missed I would be most greatful. Ian Moody 14:07, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, I'll have a look. I've already done a couple of other things. Master Thief Garrett 23:49, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  My Recent Cleanup 

message: This page makes the case that the oracles are not the goddesses or avatars of them, merely powerful persons named after them. I don't know if we can definitively say either way, but this article seems to identify them as being the same. Maybe we should break them up. Deco 03:08, 20 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: That's probably true. While they do have powers, Veran & Co. still easily capture them, so I guess they're not goddesses after all... I wonder what TSA thinks, heheheh... Master Thief GarrettTalk 04:22, 20 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The page you linked to doesn't exactly say they're just "powerful persons" with their names. Like the current explanation for the many Links throughout the timeline of the series, I believe their names and appearances of course aren't coincidental, and that the term "oracle" fits them nicely, as intermediaries of the three goddesses. Nevertheless, you're right in that they are distinctly different from the goddesses -- they're human -- and this fact should be noted. --Tryforceful 03:27, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oracles and goddesses 

message: Please try to find screenshots or [Official Nintendo] Drawings of most or all the characters listed here.  (Like Lord Jabu-Jabu and the old man)
:All such images violate other people's copyrights, so are not legal to use except possibly under fair use doctrine. It's better if we can use images we use with permission or with full rights given to use them. Deco 08:42, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Screenshots/Pictures 

message: I may add more if as I remember them.
====The main evidence====
This is the meat of my point. Malon and Marin have a whole lot of similarities - and it's not just in their name.
*Name: Though I'm not going to pretend that their similar (albeit not identical, even in Japanese, as I at first thought) names aren't just one of many pieces of evidence.
*Fathers: Both of them have a father whose name is identical to theirs but with a "T" instead of an "M." Both fathers have similar chubby builds (which will come into play for another point later.) Both fathers spend a lot of the games they're in sleeping (for Talon, he does in OoT and OoS.) Both are shown to have poor judgment and make stupid mistakes: Tarin beats on a beehive, Talon sleeps outside of Hyrule Castle (in OoT) and locks his house key in his house (in Minish Cap).
*Singing ability: Not only are both women known for their singing ability, but there are several sub-points to this:
**Singing when idle: That is, when Link is not speaking to them and when not in a cutscene. This is not unique to Marin and OoT Malon, but it is shared by very few other characters, and the only ones I can think of have a direct connection to Marin or Malon (Romani is simply the Termina equivalent of young Malon; Lulu (does she sing when idle after completing the Great Bay Temple? I don't remember) sings a song which shares a title with Marin's; Nayru's singing sprite in OoA is identical to Marin's with the exception of a lock of hair (this one is a stretch, I admit, given that Nayru's official art isn't even remotely similar, but it is true.))
**Teaching Link: Both Marin and OoT Malon (and, for what it's worth, Romani) teach their favorite songs to Link, which he can then play on his Ocarina later.
**Song similarity: This one really belongs in the "Obscure evidence" category, but I'm trying to keep all of the musical points together. The Ballad of the Wind Fish begins with three ascending notes, twice in a row. Epona's Song begins with three descending notes, twice in a row (well, three times, but you only need to play it twice on the Ocarina.)
*Animal lovers: Marin and every single last incarnation of Malon are animal lovers. They sing to animals (Marin sings to the animals around Mabe and the populace of the Animal Village (where she apparently frequents), Malon sings to Epona in OoT), Marin yells at you if you attack chickens, Malon lives on a ranch, etc.
====Supporting evidence====
These arguments could not stand on their own, even with all of them together, but they support the main arguments.
*Red hair: Marin is described in the LA manual as looking exactly like Zelda, but does she? Marin has red hair in all official art. Zelda has always been portrayed as a blonde (her appearance wasn't remotely consistent before OoT, but she was a blonde in the official artoriginal Zelda and LttP (this site didn't have access to a picture of AoL's Zelda.)) Malon, of course, always has red hair. Their hairdos are also almost identical (assuming you ignore the flower in Marin's hair; compare Marin and young Malon (OoT).)
*Crush on Link: Okay, granted, how many women of significance in Zelda games close in age to Link don't seem to have a crush on him? I can think of one: his sister. Oooh. So, yeah, this isn't much of an argument. But it is true, and I'm listing similarities.
*Neckties: Tarin's necktie in his official art matches Malon's in every way but the Bowser clasp.
*Daydreamers: Marin daydreams about leaving the island; OoT Malon daydreams about a knight in shining armor sweeping her off her feet.
*Mushrooms: This really ties in with the "Mario" argument below, but Tarin/lon goes mushroom hunting in LA and OoS (and he gives you a mushroom in OoS.)
====Obscure arguments====
You won't like these; some of them are stretches or really nitty-gritty.
*Mario: I'm really really tempted to put this into Main Arguments, but if you aren't willing to admit the similarity between Marin and Malon, better safe than sorry. Both Tarin and Talon have similarities to a third character: Mario. Most OoT players will tell you that Talon looks like Mario, physically (chubby build, large round nose, mustache, blue overalls over a red shirt - heck, in the official art for OoS, he even has a hat with an "M" on it!) and that Ingo looks like Luigi (some have stated that Malon parallels Peach, but if you called that one speculation, I'd agree with you wholeheartedly. The Talon/Mario and Ingo/Luigi links, however, are pretty valid in terms of appearance only.) What's somewhat less well-known is that Tarin parallels Mario too: although he lacks the corresponding outfit and the Luigi-like partner, he has the same build, round nose, and mustache. What's more, he has a couple of other traits that parallel Mario: he eats mushrooms (heck, just look at his official art) and, at one point, he turns into a raccoon. (As noted above, Talon also hunts mushrooms in OoS.)
*Family dynamic: First of all, Marin/lon is pretty clearly in charge of the relationship with her father every time; she doesn't seem to respect him (notice that Marin insists on calling Tarin by his first name; meanwhile, Malon is always complaining about how stupid and lazy and useless her father is, in every game she appears.) Daughter has more plot relevance than father in LA and OoT (in the other games with Malon and Talon, it's questionable that either has much plot relevance.) Both daughters are often left alone by father (in part due to Tarin/lon's laziness).
Every single one of those arguments comes from the games or official art themselves. So either Malon is based on Marin, or there are a severe number of coincidences. (I think there were a couple of others I considered, but I can't remember what they were right this moment. If I do, I'll add them to the list above. --HeroicJay 05:52, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Evidence that Malon is based on Marin

message: You won't like these; some of them are stretches or really nitty-gritty.
*Mario: I'm really really tempted to put this into Main Arguments, but if you aren't willing to admit the similarity between Marin and Malon, better safe than sorry. Both Tarin and Talon have similarities to a third character: Mario. Most OoT players will tell you that Talon looks like Mario, physically (chubby build, large round nose, mustache, blue overalls over a red shirt - heck, in the official art for OoS, he even has a hat with an "M" on it!) and that Ingo looks like Luigi (some have stated that Malon parallels Peach, but if you called that one speculation, I'd agree with you wholeheartedly. The Talon/Mario and Ingo/Luigi links, however, are pretty valid in terms of appearance only.) What's somewhat less well-known is that Tarin parallels Mario too: although he lacks the corresponding outfit and the Luigi-like partner, he has the same build, round nose, and mustache. What's more, he has a couple of other traits that parallel Mario: he eats mushrooms (heck, just look at his official art) and, at one point, he turns into a raccoon. (As noted above, Talon also hunts mushrooms in OoS.)
*Family dynamic: First of all, Marin/lon is pretty clearly in charge of the relationship with her father every time; she doesn't seem to respect him (notice that Marin insists on calling Tarin by his first name; meanwhile, Malon is always complaining about how stupid and lazy and useless her father is, in every game she appears.) Daughter has more plot relevance than father in LA and OoT (in the other games with Malon and Talon, it's questionable that either has much plot relevance.) Both daughters are often left alone by father (in part due to Tarin/lon's laziness).
Every single one of those arguments comes from the games or official art themselves. So either Malon is based on Marin, or there are a severe number of coincidences. (I think there were a couple of others I considered, but I can't remember what they were right this moment. If I do, I'll add them to the list above. --HeroicJay 05:52, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Obscure arguments

message: *Rv category changes-Pagra
*Do not revert. Category:Legend of Zelda characters is a sub-category of Category:Lists of fictional characters. The Deku tree is a plant character, the category is applicable) -tyciol
*You recently re-reverted your category changes at The Legend of Zelda series characters, saying that :Category:Legend of Zelda characters is a sub-category of :Category:Lists of fictional characters, but this is not the case, nor should it be. For example, Princess Zelda falls in the category of Legend of Zelda characters, but is not a list of fictional characters.
*You also said that the LOZ series characters article should be placed under the Plant characters category. I don't believe it is typical to place an article in a category when only a small portion of that article deals with the category. We cannot place pieces of an article in a category; categories are for whole articles. Is "The Legend of Zelda series characters" a plant character? Also, even if you do place the article in that category, alphabetizing it under D is very counter-intuitive. Take a look at :Category:Plant characters and you will see just how strange this is. Pagrashtak 01:55, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry for re-reverting, I should have started a discussion here the second there was dispute. I agree that the Category:Plant characters seems strange when applying it to a page where only a couple characters are plant characters. The Zelda articles listed there are also confusing, as you mentioned. I am at a loss though, as I would like to have them included in this list. The only way I can think of doing this is to move the Deku tree and other plant races to separate articles, rather than having them redirect here. I couldn't find all the redirects that way though. I wish there was a better way of categorization... Tyciol 02:08, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Category confusion

message: in the gameboy game wing fish egg isn't the girl in it called Malon and the her dads talion i think thats how you spell it
:No, you are thinking of OoT. In Link's Awakening (the game you are aluding to), they are named Marin and Tarin. - A Link to the Past (talk) 02:49, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  wing fish egg 

message: Surely this is just speculation and Original Reseach, with little, if any, content appropriate for Wikipædia? I propose that we delete the entire section. Setokaiba✌≝ 21:24, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "The Theories of the Origins of Majora's Mask" 

message: He's a character that only appeared once, and if people really wanna look at him, they can always open the article on Link and read the section on his confirmed family, right?
--200.44.7.245 22:15, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think that bit about Twilight Princess's Link being explicitly an orphan and someone mentioning his parents is true at all. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.122.208.51 (talk) 17:10, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should the uncle stay? 

message: The article starts off by saying that it only covers characters that have appeared in more than one game, and Navi has clearly only appeared in one game. Plus, all the info on Navi is in her subtitle in the Ocarina of Time Characters article, including the info appearing here. Why is Navi in this article, at all? ---200.44.7.21 05:55, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is Navi supposed to be here? 

message: Under the Owl's section it states that some fans have come to the conclusion that the Owl and Rauru may be the same.  Well, after rewatching Ocarina of Time, is it not true that Rauru reveals himself to Link after Link draws up the Master Sword and explains to Link that he has been watching Link as the Owl?---CaptainJade9
:I don't remember Rauru ever mentioning Owl or Kaepora Gaebora. I think he is someone else. Remember from the credits how all the sages go to Death Mountain to watch the sun rise? Rauru and Zelda aren't there. Jaxad0127 09:13, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Rauru and the Owl

message: Many people have criticized the owl for many reasons.
1. He shows up to give often unwanted advice, encouragement, tips, or instructions.
2. His appearance causes cutscenes that are always unskipable and sometimes long.
3. Because of the length of the cutscenes, many people have often accidentaly selected "yes" when asked if they want to hear the owl's message again.
Because of all this, many gamers have disliked the owl.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.188.172.165 (talk • contribs) 
:Source? The bulk of his text can usually be skipped. And it's not hard to select the correct option. Jaxad0127 14:42, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The Owl

message: The OoT Great Deku Tree and the WW Deku Tree (his official name according to the figurines) are clearly not the same character, but are talked about as if they are in this article. That should be changed. I am not doing it myself because I cannot figure out how to do it without causing damage to the two of them, but someone else could figure out how.128.211.177.240 19:57, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've took out the WW Deku mentions, becaues there is a WW character page, therefore the WW Deku shouldn't exist on this page, if there is a OOT page, then I'll delete the Deku section altogether, also, please fix the see also link, just below the Deku section, I don't know how to do it so it links directly to the Deku section on the WW character page. Thanks. Ashnard talk 21:56, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Great Deku Tree 

message: I don't remember them being mentioned. Could someone clear that up for me. I can't find anywhere else. On other sites, anything... Please? I really apreciate it...23:49, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  link's parents in TP 

message: I the Majora section there is a statment that says: "Note that in Twilight princess, Midna is a descendant of a tribe that control dark magic and the eye on the Midna's mask has the same shape as the one on Majora's mask." This is simply speculation and there is no proof. Could someone please change it so noone gets confused or the wrong information.
Thank you.
23:24, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Majora section 

message: I don't think they're a charecter...And Rusl doesn't own the golden cucoo. He borrowed it to help Link.Thecolourrose
This is the best article to place them though - they were originally at "Enemies". Gurko 21:52, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  cucco 

message: does anyone think that the magic armor in wind waker looks like din's fire/naryu's love/faroe's wind daimonds?
really, look: http://www.zeldaelements.net/games_main/9/items/magicarmor.jpg
it is a black ball in a diamond, does anyone think that is is like naryu's love? Spidermn 01:04, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  magic armor 

message: Oh no, I can see a potential edit war arising here over the three goddessess. Sort your arguments for and against here — connstant reverting and adding is counterproductive. Thank you. Ashnard talk 05:55, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit wars? 

message: Does anyone else think this page should be moved to Recurring characters in The Legend of Zelda series? It fits the contents of this page much better, but there's already a page there, so someone needs to make a request for the move. I'd do it now, but I'm at school, and requesting a move takes a while to sort everything out, so if no one's done it by the time I get home I'll do it myself. Takuthehedgehog 17:36, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, we just need to make sure there are no character entries about a character from just one game. I can't see any reason why not so go for it.I'm going to school now so I'm a bit time tied.Ashnard Talk 06:44, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Done, I ended up not being able to do it yesterday, but I got it done today in tech class. Takuthehedgehog 16:58, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Move to Recurring characters in The Legend of Zelda series

message: :The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 
Characters in The Legend of Zelda series → Recurring characters in The Legend of Zelda series — The page is currently titled Characters in The Legend of Zelda series, but the page only covers characters that appear in multiple Zelda games, with characters from only one game in the series appearing on their apropriate lists, such as Characters in The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. The current title is misleading, thus the reason for the request. Takuthehedgehog 16:57, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Add  * Support  or  * Oppose  on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~.  Please remember that this is not a vote; comments must include reasons to carry weight.
*Support: This will disambiguate the meaning of the article and save people from incorrectly adding entries for game-specific characters as some do not read the lead paragraph. The current title is misleading and does not give an appropriate description of the article. Ashnard Talk 22:17, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

text: *Actually all of the other Zelda character pages don't have "List of" in the title, so I didn't put list in the requested title. Takuthehedgehog 16:42, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

text: The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal.  Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
This article has been renamed  as the result of a move request. Adding "list of" is warranted when the page is avowedly a list, as this is; contact me if you need help moving the others to titles starting with "list of". --Stemonitis 07:22, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 

message: :Add  * Support  or  * Oppose  on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~.  Please remember that this is not a vote; comments must include reasons to carry weight.
*Support: This will disambiguate the meaning of the article and save people from incorrectly adding entries for game-specific characters as some do not read the lead paragraph. The current title is misleading and does not give an appropriate description of the article. Ashnard Talk 22:17, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *Actually all of the other Zelda character pages don't have "List of" in the title, so I didn't put list in the requested title. Takuthehedgehog 16:42, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

text: The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal.  Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.</div>
This article has been renamed  as the result of a move request. Adding "list of" is warranted when the page is avowedly a list, as this is; contact me if you need help moving the others to titles starting with "list of". --Stemonitis 07:22, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey