Talk:Leet/Archive 3

message: I apologize for my language, but after reading 2 archived pages of nothing less than kiddie bs, and futile attempts to "find" the origins of the actual language 1337, I'm convinced that wikipedia is full of kids and morons.  The origins are simple.  So simple that only somebody using a computer would find it impossible to discover.  Now quick, I want you to grab your 10-40 pound screen and stare at this word and then I want you to TURN IT UPSIDE DOWN: 1337 
Right now you might be saying Aha!, or you may just think I'm bsing, or you may have broken your screen (or you neck), and I apologize for that, but 133t was spelled by computer users because nobody wanted to read UPSIDE DOWN CALCULATOR CODE on a computer screen.
1 does not stand for L, and 7 does not stand for T.  7=L 3=E 3=E 1=T .  Personal calculators were available from the 70's in america calculator, and this is what started "leetspeak", which probably originated from 8008 or 58008, which evolved into 55378008.  That's BOOB, BOOBS, and BOOBLESS List_of_calculator_words.  Do you see why 13375p34k is the stupidest title ever? It is a combination, and a disgusting mutant creation.  It's ass-backwards.  The internet was made in the 80's, the personal calculator was made in the 70's.  Do you honestly think that kids spent 10 years not messing around with the calculator?  The saddest thing about this whole article is that nobody dare questions why 1337 doesn't look like LEET.  Some claim that it's because there is a lowercase l, but honestly that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.  Lowercase l, Uppercase EET.  It should be noted that the term leet probably wasn't written 1337 on a calculator, since the term didn't gain popularity till later on, with the explosion of BBS, the internet, and gaming, which each evolved Leetspeak into something else entirely.  I find this supposed "history", and every n00b user's comments to be disgusting, ill-informed, and I'm not even sure anybody will care.  Nobody uses calculators and computers together.  Anyone feel free to take out all my insulting comments.  I had to let one other person know. God Bless the world.  One last thing, as a non-historical document, the main page of leet is well written out.  I would change the main page, but I have no backup, and very little proof of what I'm saying, and I believe in Wiki's Three rules. --SpydyrMan 19:07, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: According to your myspace page, you would have been 10 tops when BBSes reached their peak. You would not have been born in the days when every kid in school started to have a calculator. I don't think you quite have a grasp of the era you are describing, and you're totally out to lunch. Oh, and the actual "Internet" wasn't really used by the public until after the 80s - in the early 90s in fact. It was in the 80s that things like Fidonet began to permeate BBSes, relaying only text-based information via modem from BBS to BBS. So, you're really good at making crap up in your head but you have incomplete information. Try starting with the wikipedia article Internet. --CokeBear 19:34, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

text: To answer your first question, a cursive T often looks exactly like a 7.--The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 15:54, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Wow, the original poster doesn't really know what he's talking about (IMNSHO). Sure, kids played with their calculators, but the term 1337 did not come from the calculator. Pure evidence of this is Sure, some representations of the number 1 have a large serif on the bottom, and it kinda looks like a T, but not until the 90s. The graphing calculators of the TI and HP variety actually had an LCD matrix which enabled them to display the serifs, but the calculators that were around "before the Internet" were all made of 7 segment displays, and the 1 was merely two vertical bars, it did *not* represent a T. List_of_calculator_words makes this clear. 1 was used for i, and that's really about it. (okay, it occasionally was used for L) Never T. Leet came about as a polymorphic language to allow inapropriate discussions on Bulliten boards with excessive filters. That's the history. Oh, and while "Personal Calculators" were out in the 70s, they really didn't drop below the $100 mark until the mid seventies. And it wasn't until the early 80s that they were in the price range where kids could play with them. Strangely enough, it was the early 80s where BBSs became popular, so Kids playing with Personal Calculators doesn't actually predate "Kids" on BBSs. McKay 17:27, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Heavens help us all, we are getting history lessons on 'Leet' from people who were not born until the 90s. Look, as a former operator of a BBS, and a child of the 70s, I can tell you right now that you are talking out of your arse. Leet-speak has nothing to do with calculators. The original intent was twofold - to obfuscate text so that it was not easily filtered by black lists and the like on BBS software, and to "look cool" so that you cold claim you were "elite". Most people who had to claim they were "elite" were in fact, not at all, and simply stole stuff from other people and passed it along acting like they were the crackers and hackers and phreakers when they in fact were what would later become AOLers. Most people who actually were programmers, myself included, didn't feel the need to announce anything by using leet-speek. So, we used it to circumvent filters - usually bad ones that were set to be overly intolerant of even the simplest things (when a BBS censors association because it has ass in it, it has problems). There are no NATIVE SPEAKERS of 'Leet, since it wouldn't mean anything to speak it. It is a quirk of the modern era because of the ability to send messages by text to people using a typewriter or keypad instead of handwriting. It will likely endure for years to come because it does come in handy for certain things. But unless your parents only sent you text messages from the day you were born, you aren't a "native speaker". You are one of those people I mentioned above - an attention-seeking "too cool for school" dork. You are not in any way an authority on the subject just because you understand it. Get over yourself, you 58008.--CokeBear 19:27, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: You all are morons who can't think outside the box

message: I apologize if I interupted any discussion, feel free to copypaste back what you need. -- Dragoonmac - If there was a problem yo I'll solve it 21:19, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Use four tildes (~~~~) • TheTrueSora 20:18, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Archived due to length

message: Im not sure why this article is included in the page. It is not informative and is extremely biased. I think it should be removed. Anyone else agree? Here: 'Online Language Leaves Parents In The Dark SIGURD42 22:43, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree--it's not very informative--just basically a little warning to parents. I think it should be removed. authraw 00:58, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Online Language Leaves Parents In The Dark Article 

message: I think  would be better than . At best L337 is a cryptolect of english, not a proper language. There are about a dozen words unique to it, but much of its variation is in the realm of puncuation and encoding, characteristics of a writing system. Anyone disagree?-- The ikiroid  18:29, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you look at the archived parts of this talk page, you'll find a great deal of discussion about this. I still don't understand why it shouldn't be perfectly clear to everyone that we have no right to call Leet a language, if nothing else because there are no reliable sources that indicate that it is widely considered to be one. (And I don't understand at all how the idea of an artifical language came up. It's not in any way artificial.) In summary,  should certainly not be used. I'm currently not sure of my opinion regarding , but it's less far-fetched than a language box. EldKatt (Talk) 11:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm changing it. We can discuss it here afterword.-- The ikiroid  16:08, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The template at the top 

message: 7331 language actually stemmed from Halo online playing using xbox connect. it was used in game discussion and chat.
:Yeah, right. Halo is what, 4 years old? l337 has been around for far longer than that. you also appear to have written "teel" or something, twice. As the article says, l337 has been about since the Commodore 64, far before the Xbox was even a twinkle in Microsoft's eye. Setokaiba✌≝ 20:06, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  7331 stemmed from halo 

message: Though some people here consider the origins of leetspeak listed here dubious, I do not. Even if they are, this article explains everything very well. It is extremely difficult not to laugh at the incredibly detailed explanation and dissection of "r0x0rz j00r b0x0rs" and so forth. xD --Ihmhi 06:52, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Written very well

message: This thing isnt a language its more of a extreme version of internet talk. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Synthe (talk • contribs) 10:41, 25 June 2006
:It's obviously notable though. It will most certainly survive WP:AfD. -- Ec5618 06:52, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If anything, we should delete this page, which exists mainly for people to quibble about the history of 1337, engage in flame wars, and forget about getting this article back to featured article status. Bibliomaniac15 00:11, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But at the end of the day, it does help people like me learn about what L337 actually is, as it did for me 3 years ago. Maybe it'll help someone else too. We shouldn't let the jade produced by annoying edit wars blind our judgement about what the article is actually for—teaching someone about L337 who doesn't know what it is. You wouldn't delete an article about a religion simply because we have a conflict of definition, because we need to inform the world about the topic at hand. Sorry about the confusing soliliquy, but I need to get my point across.--The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 01:17, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

text: You'd be laughed out of AfD for listing a former feature article under the assumption that it is "not notable". --DavidHOzAu 12:14, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I don't think we should delete it.  If it needs get back feature article stautus lets start working on it.--Scott3 19:36, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

text: It may be annoying, but it's something that people still ask about, so it should stay... I doubt it's going to bring more converts to leetspeak or anything dangerous like that... WhateverTS 01:24, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should we delete this Page? 

message: Possible origin of kekeke is from Tokusatsu shows made in Japan during the 70's (though were broadcast in other asian countries, like China, Vietnam, Korea, etc.), particularly the show "Kamen Rider".
The evil organization "Shocker", the antagonist organization in the show had henchman who dressed all in black with a skeletal pattern of white on their uniforms. The masks on their uniforms were reminiscent of mexican wrestling masks. Whenever a group of Shocker henchmen would gang up on Kamen Rider, they would either chirp "Ki ki!" or " Ke ke!", as the henchmen rarely ever spoke, alluding to the posibility that they may have not been human, or at least weren't anymore. -- Ec5618 01:03, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed from article

message: There is no "official" way for leetspeak to be spoken, yet this article is labeling their way to be the standard.
:No it's not. It's identifying common patterns. Ragdoll 21:31, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regulation 

message: Ah... I most certainly vote an emphatic "no".  The Leeb article looks more like someone came up with it off the top of their head and decided to try to make it official by putting it on Wikipedia (because everything on the intarweb is true).  The Leet page is, in my opinion, actually quite well fleshed out and deserves to stay that way.
Any other opinions?  - 69.130.43.203 03:59, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Leeb would most definitely be merged into Leet and not the other way around, but I vote to delete Leeb altogether. —Ragdoll 01:36, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Would anyone object is the merger request was just removed? Crimson Shadow 16:53, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "LEEB" merge?