Talk:Tiger Temple

message: Hey, there's a lot of edits that aren't being explained, can future editors fill in the edit sumamries or mark them as minor? Chuckygobyebye 07:35, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit Summaries 

message: I was doing a bit of research. I had not heard of this before, but some tourists think that the tigers are drugged. Is this a viable controversy? I haven't been able to find any thing worth referencing.
Here is a travel forum with opinions
http://forum.virtualtourist.com/discussion-376907-1-1-Travel-0-0-Thailand-discussion.html
Here is a thread that has an answer from the monestary... still nothing scientific, but National Geographic didn't mention a contraversy.
http://thorntree.lonelyplanet.com/messagepost.cfm?postaction=reply&catid=51&threadid=814487&messid=6926319&STARTPAGE=1&parentid=0&from=1&showall=true
I want to visit there, but I don't want to support mistreatment of animals.
69.104.69.113 01:35, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tigers Drugged? 

message: There are lots of mistruths and half truths about the tiger temple littering the internet. Finally, I have had enough and have decided to educate those who wish to debate the value of what we are trying to achieve.
Are our Tigers drugged? To me this is a ridicules statement in itself. First and foremost we are a religious institution; secondly we have animals in our monastery. The idea of drugging our tigers goes against all that we stand for. Why are our tiger so docile? Our Tigers are socialized to people from a very young age. At one month we start to introduce our cubs to people. One of the monks sleeps in the cage with the cubs and tends to all their needs. So at a very young age our cats learn that people pose no threat to them. By about 5 months our cubs are desensitized to people.
Our technique for raising tigers has proven extremely successful. In a zoo environment tigers are kept in a semi wild state. No matter what enrichment is added to their enclosure they become bored= unhappy tigers. Our Tigers interact daily with staff and tourists. Everyday bring new adventures and Fun. Our tigers are never bored=unhappy tigers. For those who do not agree with this statement………unhappy tigers do not breed.
Why are our tigers breeding?
In captivity tigers never fully become comfortable with humans, in an uncomfortable environment they will not breed. When a captive tiger is born most institutions rejoice at there accomplishment.
Our tigers are comfortable with humans and happy. We do not have an active breeding program. Nor do we encourage breeding. Having said this we don not try to stop them when the whim hits. I for one wouldn’t want to go into an enclosure to try to stop this.
The saddest truth in all of this is most people come to visit us for no more than 2 hrs and form their opinions in this short amount of time.      —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.113.111.182 (talk) 07:32, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Tiger Temple disspelling rumors

message: How do you distinguish between the lies and the truth about the tiger temple? All you can do is look at what is being said and who is saying it.
Ask yourself why would people lie and what is there to be gained from lying. I think that the temple has the most to gain from lying. They are the ones that are trying to protect their livelihood. Think before you support this place. Do research and listen to everyones opinion. Try to think what this person has to gain from saying it.
Read the history from wikipedia. Why are you only allow to say good things? Why does everyone want to silence anyone who has a different side to this story?
Research, research, research. Talk to the Thai Department of National Parks, Care for the Wild International, WSPA and Bornfree. Listen to ex volunteers and tourists that have visited. Both sides of the story.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Florence&reuben (talk • contribs) 07:43, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  The lies and the truth. 

message: The edit of "Update from a volunteer, December 2008 - current (January 8, 2009)" is blatantly a post from someone whose interests lie with the continued income of the "Tiger Temple" rather than the welfare of the tigers. A short amount of research very quickly reveals the terrible abuse -- both physical and mental -- that these animals are forced to endure. It is disgusting.
I understand that it is the nature of wikipedia that edits like the aforementioned are permitted, but it infuriates me that some prospective and credulous Tiger Temple tourist could come upon this wikipedia page, read that obvious marketing ploy, and actually come away from it thinking that there is lingering controversy regarding the abuse. There is no controversy: these tigers are abused. One's patronage and "donation" only prolongs the suffering of these tigers. Wikipedia should play no part in this.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.114.17.187 (talk) 22:43, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Enough is enough 

message: Hi,
I don't know if I am on the right channel here, but I am hoping I am in the right place.
My discussion is about the conditions and the treatment of animals in the Tiger Temple, Thailand. many of the "lies and truths" pertain not just to the Temple but are established facts about Tiger husbandry and welfare.....
I respect people's believes, always have done, always will; I respect people's points of view, always have done, always will. This does not however, ... make me like them.
I have been to the Tiger Temple in Thailand, what made me go there was a documentary on the animal planet documentary about it showing how good they are at protecting tigers. I thought wow, got to go there and see the place for myself. I heard vague rumors of some bad stuff going on there. But I went anyway.
I saw abuse: pulling a tigers tale and maneuvering it into position for a picture with a tourist, is not nice, I was not the only one who found this disturbing. The tail is is an extension of the spine after all.
 Now for the workers, or volunteers who did this. The tiger would have had to be in a condition where he would not bite back. In fact all 18 tigers were having their, I quote 'nap time'. However, they were in a state far deeper than sleep. They were like in a state of unconscious, the same heavy sleep that animals/ humans are put under when they go for an operation.
It seemed very strange and suspicious. Again I can only reiterate what I saw.
In addition to this it was 30-35 degrees C, there was no water for the tigers to drink (they couldn't drink in that comatose state anyway). Barely any shade and they were constantly being put in unnatural positions.
I also went around the place, saw 2 cubs, again no water was given to them, bar a small bottle of milk, that was squirted at them in the face rather than fed to them. They were also right next to a watering pool, with a nice water fall, but their chains were on so tight they could barley stand up and walk. Now that is mean.
Holding cells, that were bare, and evidence of cooked chicken as a feed (1 chicken), tell me thats enough food for a grown tiger, cages that were rusty and sharp for tiger transportation. Mini dump sites of sharp metal and waste. A very large heard of free roaming water buffalo, with a bull. If he wanted to charge, there was no stopping him.
Safety for the people was very lax indeed. I have been there, I have seen what I have seen, my eyes don't lie. Thats when I started a cause on facebook: 'Ban the Tiger Temple' I have seen through the faced and therefore encountered numerous animals suffering.
This could be a nice place, but the place is orientated around greed. So long this continues to happen nothing ever good will come out of this place, just more suffering.
If you give a damn come join the cause, there are also some U tube videos, posted by someone who went there on a longer period, regarding a university thesis or something. Check these out, get the facts then decide: 
Facebook cause:
http://www.causes.com/causes/200187
<Sybelle Foxcroft><Behind the Cloak of the Buddha>
U Tube mini documentaries:
Part 1a
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdIwr4bRdOc&NR=1
Part 1b
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rEVsaOZsQY
SonjaWilderness (talk) 18:41, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Been there, done that, my eyes don't lie 

message: Just got back from Thailand and my wife and I visited the Tiger Temple for about 2 hours.  I will tell you my observations.  First of all, this is Thailand.  They do not hide their commercialism like we do in the states with high entrance fees, expensive snack shops and fancy gift shops.  There is a small market outside the temple with vendors sellilng all kinds of tiger temple paraphenalia as will as stations for instructions.  The scene is FAR from polished.  Like I said.  It's Thailand. It does not appear to be associated with the Temple but I can't confirm this.
Upon entrance you are given a simple map.  After that you are basically on a self directed tour of the grounds.  It is true that there are no cages.  All animals except carnivores (Bear/tigers) are in cages.  The Bear cage was as large as any I have seen in the states.  Had enclosed shaded and open activity areas.  I saw horses, Ox/cows, peacocks, boar, and few other species roaming free.  Personally, I though that was pretty cool.  I would rather have that than all these animals in cages.  Safety concerns were obvious but.....it's Thailand! I believe if you are stupid enough to try to give a wild animal a hug...you get what you deserve! I if your looking for safety and protection you won't get it here.  That said all animals were VERY calm.  Even when it was feeding time. (just as long as you have the common sense to get out of their way!)
We went to see the Tigers. 10-12 tigers were all in a small "canyon" area laying down.  All were chained. The Head Monk supervising carefully.  It was very organized and well controlled.  One person firmly held you hand and led you to each tiger and directed you how to pose.  Another person took your camera and snapped shots.  Poses usually consisted of kneeling beside the tiger and resting your hand on the tiger's chest.  In 2 poses you were given the tigers tail to hold while your other hand was on the chest.  NO ONE was pulling the tiger's tail! It was gently held...  I do not work with animals, however I do work at a large trauma center.  I have lots of experience with interacting with people who are sedated.  In my opinion the animals were not drugged.  My impression was that they were very used to this human interaction, and they were very interested in napping!  Could I be wrong?  Yes.  The tigers seemed well fed, absolutely not emaciated.  They smelled very clean. I saw no evidence of abuse. Overall a pretty surreal experience.  Is it a good idea to be hugging napping tigers? Hell no! But I did it anyway because I am a stupid American! I equate this to skydiving, another stupid idea which I did anyway(only once)!
Next we went to see the tiger cubs.  Cute as can be.  Certainly not drugged. Claws and fangs came out while my wife posed with it. Very playful.  
I don't know about the claims about breeding, the Laos connection and if this is a big money grab. At the end of the day this was a Thai style zoo.  Make any judgements you want.  In my opinion all zoos should be destroyed in favor of protected sanctuaries.  All of these animals should be free and free from us. 
In that spirit, If I was a tiger or other animal and had to choose between this and a western style zoo, I would choose this place in a heart beat!  
Lastly, I thought the staff was compassionate and very interested in the animals well being.  Infact, the western volunteers were pretty passionate about these animals. There was a crazy Aussie fellow there that really impressed me. 
In the end, the Temple is imperfect because it is not a true sanctuary where animals can run wild over thousands of protected acres.  But I truly felt that it was more humane than any western zoo i have ever been in.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.134.217.9 (talk) 21:25, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Just return from Tiger Temple  March 29, 2012 

message: New investigative reporting shows that the tiger temple has speed bred tigers for sale in the black market http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/01/160121-tiger-temple-thailand-trafficking-laos0/?source=NGComm
There has also been some recent edits - images with captions showing a clear bias against the temple with words such as " tigers enslaved at the Tiger Temple in Thailand by people who call themselves Buddhist monks". This might mean other parts of the article are also quite biased, though I do not have the opportunity to look through it myself at this time — Preceding unsigned comment added by Movario (talk • contribs) 05:09, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  New controversy + biased edits