Talk:Irish Republican Army (1919–1922)/Archive 5

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This archive page covers approximately the dates between 29 July and 1 August 2005.
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Please add new archivals to Talk:Irish Republican Army/Archive07. Thank you. Palmiro | Talk 21:36, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

message: There's clearly a problem relating to how wikipedia covers the various organisations which have been known as the IRA. I'm going to try and summarise the problems in the hope of helping reach consensus on how to approach it.
Note: this is an updated version, as of 7 August, of my original analysis of WP coverage, for ease of reference. The original remains below. I haven't the time to update the development of the various proposals: users will have to read the discussion in subsequent sections to follow that.
Numerous articles exist on the topic. 
*The "Irish Republican Army" article (this one) covers the IRA up until the Treaty split in 1922.
*Separate articles cover the IRA from 1922 to 1969 (originally the anti-Treaty faction in the Treaty split), the Official IRA, the Provisional IRA, the Real IRA and the Continuity IRA.
*List of IRAs provides a basic history (not just a list) of the IRA and its various successor organisation, as well as Sinn Fein and its successor organisations.
*IRA, which appears to have started as a disambiguation page for the various uses of the acronym (not confined to Irish politics), now also contains a brief history of the IRA and its various successor organisations.
The following issues, among others, arise:
*What should be covered on this page Irish Republican Army - is the current situation satisfactory, should it be a disambiguation page, should it cover all the organisations known as IRA etc - read the entire talk page for full discussion.
*What should the article that addresses the history of all IRAs together be called (or should there even be one?); and what should be done with the current IRA and List of IRAs pages?
Original version of this follows, with list of positions expressed at time of writing Palmiro 19:36, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Positions:
##It should cover all IRAs. Objections: it would be insulting to Irish people to include the IRA that fought the war of independence on the same page as later organisations which are widely perceived as criminals without any political legitimacy; the various organisations calling themselves the IRA are entirely separate organisations and should be dealt with separately.
##It should give an outline of the various IRA organisations, describing their common features and giving a brief one or two paragraph outline of each individual organisation, directing the reader to the main articles for each of these. Objections: as for first option above(?).
##It should cover the IRA that fought the War of Independence only. Objections: this is basing the article content on a subjective judgement as to who has a right to the name rather than an object of judgement of how the name is actually used (principle of using the common name); the IRA is commonly used as a name for the IRA after the Treaty split and is now commonly used as a name for the Provisional IRA; people will expect to find information on the PIRA here (principle of least surprise); the IRA was universally known as such from 1922 on, was not known by any other name, and no other organisation was known by that name.
##It should cover the IRA that fought the War of Independence and the IRA up until the provisional-official split. (Nobody has proposed this explicitly but it is the de facto position as of the current edit)
##It should be a disambiguation page. Objections: ease of use, the name IRA was used without contest by the organisation between the 1920s and the 1960s.
##It should be a short summary page. Objections: it may not be possible to maintain a short summary page as such, given the nature of wikipedia: the choice may really be between as disambiguation page and a full entry.
**If there is a separate article on the IRA from 1919 to 1922, what should that article be called?
**If there is a separate article on the IRA from 1922 to 1969, what should that article be called?
Other issues that should be addressed
*What should the article that addresses the history of all IRAs together be called; and what should be done with the current IRA and List of IRAs pages?Palmiro 12:32, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Organisation of wikipedia coverage of IRA(s)