Talk:The Joy of Sect/Archive 2

message: I archived June 2005 to September 2007, as well as "Trivia" and "Cultural references" from the article, to Archive 1.  Cirt 14:04, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archived 

message: *I am not sure if these sections would even make it to Featured Article if they were sourced to WP:RS sources.  As it is, they are all unsourced.  So I removed this.  If and when we find sources for all of the things here (or some) we can gradually work it back in.  As it is, it is here presented for posterity.  I will now archive this.  Cirt 14:03, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Trivia" and "Cultural references" 

message: *This episode is in part a parody of the Jim Jones cult, as there are many similarities between his cult and this episode. Examples include followers being brainwashed into thinking that they would live in bliss and paradise, then being forced to harvest in the farm from dawn till dusk, while being under heavily armed guard. Also, people in Jonestown were not allowed to leave. This is referenced in one scene where Marge decides to go and confronts the Squeaky Voiced Teen. He says "People are free to go whenever they wish" and the camera then pans across a field riddled with barbed wire (with several Movementarians stuck), alligators, a mine field, and the Rover guard "balloon" from The Prisoner. 
*The episode also includes many references to Scientology. These references include the Leader's strong physical resemblance to Lafayette Ronald Hubbard an orientation film shown at the Movementarian compound; the resemblance of the cult recruiters' outfits to that of Sea Org; Homer's ten trillion year contract with the cult (and the billion year contracts Scientology members sign when they join Sea Org); the centrality of UFOs to the cult; how the cult became the central focus of Springfield in a manner similar to Clearwater, Florida, the idea that the founder invented virtually everything in the world, and the use of lawyers on the part of the cult to squash dissent. Finally, the leader attempting to make off with the money of Springfield's residents may be seen as a swipe at Hubbard. The voice of Bart Simpson, Nancy Cartwright, is a practicing Scientologist.
*The "group criticism" session used by the group to try to take Homer is a reference to the setup of the Oneida Society.
*At one part of the episode Bart is stopped by a Hare Krishna guy who asks him "Have you heard of Krishna Consciousness?". To which Homer replies "This, Bart, is a crazy man!". This is in reference to the Hare Krishna movements' promotion of Krishna's teachings by actively selling books on the street, and in airports. Episode Ref
*The scene where Marge jumps over the back of alligators while fleeing the Movementarian compound spoofs James Bond's famous stunt from Live and Let Die.
*Rover (the famous defense balloon from The Prisoner) gives chase to Marge and engulfs Hans Moleman instead.
*The title of this episode is a play on the title of the book The Joy of Sex.
*The Leader's choice of a chauffeur-driven Rolls-Royce Phantom V or VI could either be a parody of the Hare Krishna spiritualist Kirtanananda Swami, who was famous for owning a fleet of Rolls-Royces, including several customized Phantoms, and whose fraud trial was in the news at the time the episode aired, or of Rajneesh, who had a fleet of 90 Rolls-Royces at his Antelope, Oregon compound.
*The scene where Groundskeeper Willie gets the attention of Marge and Reverend Lovejoy by running his fingernails across the stained glass windows before offering to kidnap, "deprogram", or kill Homer at a price is a spoof of a scene from the Steven Spielberg film Jaws, where the character Quint, portrayed by Robert Shaw, runs his fingernails across the chalkboard to get the attention of the town's people before offering to capture or kill the shark.
*The mass-marriage performed by the Movementarians may be a reference to the one held by Reverend Moon and the Unification Church.
*While fishing, Homer sings the Batman theme, replacing "Batman" with "fishing".
*When Apu looks at the airport store owner's outrageous prices he says, "You magnificent bastard, I salute you!", a reference to to the line "Rommel, you magnificent bastard." from Patton.
;Question
Can we source and add to the article anything from the above list that is not already mentioned and referenced by a WP:RS citation?  Cirt 20:52, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Cultural references

message: Between  and myself, we were able to expand the article and add citations, we now have references to (11) sources.  I couldn't find much commentary on the actual Production of the episode itself, save for a very interesting bit that The Simpsons had planned to have a full episode just spoofing Scientology alone, but the producers shot it down for fear of Scientology's history of litigation.  
More info and commentary about the Production and background will probably have to come from the DVD commentary.  I won't have a chance to get access to the DVD for a couple days at least, but perhaps someone else could do some of that.  Cirt 15:49, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I found a small reference to the 9th season DVD commentary at Religion in The Simpsons, and incorporated it here, so that makes (12) sources.  But we could still use a teensy bit more expansion from more of the DVD commentary at some point.  Cirt 17:41, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I added some stuff from the commentary. I actually took notes from the commentary in word, but I forgot to save the file, so I quickly addedc everything I could from memory. I'm pretty sure I got everything major, but there could be some other stuff too, so it wouldn't hurt for someone to give the commentary another quick listen. -- Scorpion0422 20:46, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I won't get it at least for a few days, so someone else can do that.  Thank you though, the pieces you added are really great.  Cirt 20:50, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  DVD commentary 

message: I looked through :Category:FA-Class The Simpsons articles, and the average number of image screenshots from The Simpsons in the article about that episode, is roughly 2.5 in a Featured Article.  So with our current (3) I'd say this is perfect.  
Would there be any chance that there would be any other sources for interesting images for this episode article?  Cirt 16:20, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Images 

message: *What is this?    I am confused, this does not qualify for WP:RS, does it?   Cirt 16:21, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Weird source 

message: I wrote a lead, summarizing the article.  I basically did a rule of thumb of about one paragraph for every two sections, highlighting some very interesting bits along the way.  
What do you all think, should we proceed with WP:GAC, or perhaps WP:PR, or is there something else we can do to improve/expand the article first?  Cirt 20:47, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The lead was a tad long - For an article this length, it should be about 6-10 sentences. As for the next step, I think we need to copyedit and shorten the plot section, maybe add a few more cultural refs and then we'll have a surefire GA on our hands. Once it reaches GA status, we could get a peer review done and try and find some more sources and take it from there. -- Scorpion0422 20:53, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Roughly. It's fine for a GA, but if we go for FA, then it should be made a bit longer so it's around the same length as the one for A Streetcar Named Marge. -- Scorpion0422 20:57, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "Holy Crap Lois!"  We need to get some more cites.  Or at least, even more DVD commentary cites/expansion.  So you think it's even okay for WP:GAC as is?  They are really pretty backlogged over there, it's slow going so we can work on it while we wait for someone to get around to a GA review.  Cirt 21:00, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going to put it up at WP:GAC now, we shall see...  Cirt 21:01, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just remember that you may have to wait a few weeks before we get a review. -- Scorpion0422 21:02, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrote a lead, next step? 

message: Good so far. Notes:
*The cult shouldn't be called "evil" in the lead.
*The last paragraph needs some trimming. It doesn't matter that Cletus gets the money, or that Moe becomes a voodooist. 
*"The episodes script" in production is missing an apostrophe.
*Pinsky's view should be moved to analysis, which should be retitled "Themes".
*We don't need so many publishers noting the Movementarians are a "cult".
*Barney, the actual character, should be linked in the picture caption.
Alientraveller 14:57, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done and done... And I mean done! -- Scorpion0422 15:18, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Cool. Alientraveller 16:16, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for the review!  And good job to everyone for collaborating so nicely on this article, this has truly been a pleasure so far, one of my best experiences ever actually on Wikipedia.  Cirt 23:06, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA review 

message: I think as long as we keep the References section at  and not , we should be okay here.  Cirt 14:38, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Formatting 

message: *February 8, 2008 would be exactly ten years since the episode first aired.  I suppose we'll have to see what the WP:TFA/R climate is like at that point.  Cirt (talk) 16:38, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  TFA 

message: This episode has scientology all over it.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.210.63.72 (talk) 23:00, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scientology 

message: It is said that the Movementarians are based in part on the Heaven's Gate cult but later in the article it is stated that the episode was changed to be sensitive to the fact that many of the cult members commited suicide. I was under the impression that before the suicide, Heaven's Gate was a mostly unknown group. Is this a discrepancy or were they notorious before the suicides?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.153.29.23 (talk) 00:31, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Not sure how that would be relevant unless there are sources discussing this background in the context of this episode. Cirt (talk) 05:00, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Heaven's Gate 

message: Has there been any mention of nancy cartwrights feelings on the episodes inspiration —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.120.90.59 (talk • contribs) 12:10, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nancy Cartwright 

message: Shouldn't this article feature some mention of Homer's quote, "Out of my way, jerkass!"? The birth of "Jerkass Homer" was what divided many long-time fans and was seen as a major point of change in the series.
:No. --Smashvilletalk 19:45, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This specific episode is not referenced. And hardly the genesis. Wasn't the football episode earlier in the season? --Smashvilletalk 21:01, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jerkass Homer 

message: Substituted at 20:51, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: I have translated this article to Chinese Wikipedia here and promoted to FA status, and I want to thank User:Cirt for his effort to write this amazing article. --Jarodalien (talk) 15:05, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Now a FA in Chinese Wikipedia 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120113051815/http://www.factnet.org/Scientology/celebcrit.html to http://www.factnet.org/Scientology/celebcrit.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150402115025/http://www.solitarytrees.net/racism/collar.htm to http://www.solitarytrees.net/racism/collar.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140727053533/http://snpp.com/other/papers/jsh.paper.html to http://www.snpp.com/other/papers/jsh.paper.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111002094454/http://www.farmington.ac.uk/documents/new_reports/ME17.pdf to http://www.farmington.ac.uk/documents/new_reports/ME17.pdf
*Added archive https://archive.is/2013.01.27-151553/http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15405700701294111 to http://www.leaonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15405700701294111
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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