Talk:Pac-Man/Archive 1

message: Trivia sections on Wikipedia are considered very bad form. All imformation within this section should be dispersed to apropriate places within the article. --The_stuart 18:21, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Trivia section

message: This article suffers from the same problem I see in a lot of Wikipedia articles, that being ridiculous hyperlinks on completely random words.  For instance, in the section listing the names of the different ghosts, all of their colors are linked to an ARTICLE on that COLOR. As if people don't know what "red" is.  Also, when discussing the 256th level, "256" is linked to an article on the number "256". Not only is this silly, but it's arbitrary.  Why isn't "player" linked to its own article in a following sentence?  Why isn't the word "the" linked to an article explaining "the"?  Meanwhile actual words people might not know, such as "byte" aren't linked.  What did the writers do, throw a sucker dart at their monitor to decide which words should be hyperlinked?  Links should only be on words that relate to the concepts in the article (i.e. "video game" or "arcade" and not the number "256" or a color). And this should only be done when there is a reasonable liklihood that people will not know what the word means or that they would want to read more about it.  In other words, common sense should be used.--Daniel 23:08, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ridiculous Links

message: When the ghosts are blue, their behaviour depends on the contents of the program ROM chips; while this is deterministic it could be interpreted as being pseudo-random.
:Mention it in the article, then. Also, sign your posts (~~~ or ~~~~). —Frecklefoot 16:29, 1 Dec 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: Deterministic?

message: There should be a proper game list for Pac-Man. It is an entire series of video games, and they should be included in the article. I don't know them all, so someone else would have to include them.
-user:Thealexfish
:Let's see, they span several platforms, so keeping it straight would be tricky (but possible).  Let's see:
:*Pac-Man (arcade, Atari 2600, [other platforms])
:*Ms. Pac-Man (arcade, [other platforms])
:*Super Pac-Man
:*Pac-Man Plus
:*Baby Pac-Man
:*Jr. Pac-Man
:*Pac & Pal
:*Pac-Land
:*Pac-Mania
:*Pac-Man V R
:*Pac-Bomber
:*Sky-Maze ???
:Plus there were several console-only spin-offs such as Pac-Man World.  These two links will be helpful: arcade versions and Moby Games entry on PC and console games. —Frecklefoot 00:16, Mar 30, 2004 (UTC)
What about adding the new DS games?
--Luigi 19:41, 30 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Game List

message: In regards to Sethmahoney's removal of the word "Ironically" in this sentence:
:Ironically, Atari allegedly paid Frye $1 million to produce the game in contrast to Toru Iwatani, who was only paid his usual salary for creating the original arcade game.
...because it wasn't "ironic."  It is ironic because the arcade version netted millions for Namco while the 2600 version netted very little, if anything, for Atari.  Huge fortunes = regular pay; huge loss = huge bonus -- that's irony! :-)
I'm not going to make a big stink about it, however.  If someone else wants it in too, please re-add it.  — Frecklefoot | Talk 15:46, Jul 22, 2004 (UTC)
:From the Wikipedia article on irony"
::The American Heritage Dictionary recognizes a meaning of "incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs". This would allow the example above. (Their usage panel, however, found it unacceptable to use the word "ironic" to describe mere unfortunate coincidences or surprising disappointments that "suggest no particular lessons about human vanity or folly", which would still allow the above usage but exclude "ironically, I encountered a traffic jam when I was already late".)
:Yes, it was an unexpected turn of events, but no, there was no lesson re: human vanity or folly.
::On the other hand, Fowler, in The King's English, says "any definition of irony—though hundreds might be given, and very few of them would be accepted—must include this, that the surface meaning and the underlying meaning of what is said are not the same". Fowler would thus consider the Sullivan example above as incorrect usage.
:The surface meaning (that there was a large difference between what was paid and what the programmers made) is identical to the underlying meaning (that there was a large difference between what was paid and what the programmers made). -Seth Mahoney 17:19, Jul 22, 2004 (UTC)
::If I understand what happened correctly (and I may not - I'm tired) the man that produced the rubbish Atari version got a million dollars and the guy that made the original aracade success got a standard wage.  I would deem that acceptable usage of the word irony.  You might want to term it a bitter irony if anything.  
::I'm reminded of that terrible woman's song lyric entitled Ironic: It's like ten million spoons when all you need is a fork, it's like ray-ee-ain on your wedding day, none of which are ironies, merely unfortunate circumstances. --bodnotbod 18:33, Jul 22, 2004 (UTC)
:::I think you got the situation right (except the guy who make the original arcade game was promoted), and its definately absurd, and definately unfortunate for the guy who made the original game, but its just not quite (imho) ironic.  I was reminded of the woman who can go nameless' song as well.  -Seth Mahoney 07:01, Jul 23, 2004 (UTC)
::::I suppose injustice would be more apt. --bodnotbod 11:08, Jul 23, 2004 (UTC)
But
:Injusticeically, Atari allegedly paid Frye $1 million to produce the game in contrast to Toru Iwatani, who was only paid his usual salary for creating the original arcade game.
just doesn't have a nice ring to it IMHO. ;-)  — Frecklefoot | Talk 14:40, Jul 23, 2004 (UTC)
::What about "Absurdly, Atari allegedly..." or "Unjustly, Atari allegedly..."?  -Seth Mahoney 20:30, Jul 23, 2004 (UTC)
:::What about "It is interesting to know that,..., while..." --Anupam Srivastava 19:17, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Irony 

message: I remember reading a stat on the total amount of money spent on Pac-Man video games and the number of quarters that was.  It was a pretty impressive number and would add an interesting fact to the article.  Can anyone find that or have a source for it?  Thanks - Taxman 14:53, Aug 31, 2004 (UTC)
You can find some statistics if you google for "pacman quarters billion" in google. Most sources seem to agree that it were "4 billion quarters worldwide". Which I think is odd, since most countries don't have quarters :) But it's quite sure that it earned more than $1 billion. --Tjansen 22:11, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Pac-Man statistics?

message: The captured image shown in the article is, if I know corretly, of some shockwave implementation of the game. Why dont we put the original capture? I am saying so because since Pac-Man's release and moreover in recent years, we can find many versions/implementaions of the game, which  generally do not follow the actual gameplay and copy only the 'looks' (from my personal experience). So, we should stick to the original Pac-Man. Isn't it?
--Anupam Srivastava 21:13, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Image of Pac-Man

message: Quite simply, I think the merge was done poorly. The introduction has been terribly bloated. User:Mr.Do! has a history of making substantial changes without prior discussion. My suggestion would be to revert the article entirely and have someone else merge it. --Poiuyt Man talk 14:01, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  I've attempted to fix up the opening paragraphs. I hope it bides well. Captain Yesterday 20:32, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mr.Do's recent changes 

message: I was the original poster of the Puck Man page. I created the page as there is a significant difference between the style of the artwork and build of cabinet.
The Pac Man article on wikipedia, rightly so, is centered around the American version of the game as licensed by Midway. This American version was more successful and spawned many spinoffs where the original Japanese title was only sold in Japan and some parts of Europe.
Both articles referring to each-other would be a much better idea than simply merging as the Pac Man article is about the game whereas the Puck Man article is centered on design and history of the game.
:This was a clear candidate for an article merge: Both were refering to the subject, just in different locations. If you think that any information has been lost by the merge, please add it to the Pac-man article. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 19:29, July 13, 2005 (UTC)
::Somebody's changed all the refs to Puck man into capitals. Meanwhile, in the template, it is referred to as Puck-man, which redirects to Puck-Man, whch redirects to itself. Anyone fany tackling the mess? --bodnotbod 09:16, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll take care of the redirects, but I'm going to have to run a Google Test and see whether or not it's PUCK MAN or Puck-Man. --LBMixPro(Speak on it!) 01:26, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Puck Man versus Pacman 

message: I remember back in high school, there was a popular 2d multiplayer game we'd play on the school's computer networks where bizarre Pac-characters (Pacman, Pacaddict, Pacperv, Pacturd, and Paccondom are some of the ones I remember) would chase each other through different, quasi-realistic background screens.  The only one I remember is a sewer.  Does anyone else remember this?  What was it?  68.161.44.106 19:43, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bizarre '90s multiplayer version of Pacman 

message: I added the section on Pac-Man Arrangement, which tipped it to 33KB.  I'm wondering how to fix that, or if we should leave it alone. Hbdragon88 03:45, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, it's clear there are some problems with flow.  For instnace, ports are placed in three sections - under the Leagcy (the most ported game ever), Failed Atari Port, and Ports (with gallery screenshots).  If these should be rolled into one, where should they be placed? Hbdragon88 20:58, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: How about a "Ports" section?  Most video game articles have one. — Frecklefoot | Talk 23:17, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Time to roll and split?

message: Apparently, Namco has a mobile phone version of Pacman and Ms. Pac-Man.  Is it worth mentioning in the External Links?
:I'd say yes. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 16:52, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Namco's Pacman on the Mobile Phone

message: I remember there was a trademark dispute. I remember the solution was that there could not be pacman snack foods. I don't think the cornnut logo is being used anymore.--Gbleem 17:03, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  CornNuts trademark dispute 

message: The PUCK MAN article has identical information to the one in this article.  Previous attempts to merge have only resulted in edit wars.  I would like to get some more Wikipedian support before turning PUCK MAN into a redirect. Hbdragon88 07:37, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, as far as "Puckman", perhaps that should remain a short article since it is a noticeable difference; with a brief description of the differences of the game (the Japanese names) and why the name was changed. (Also that some hack versions with altered mazes are called "Puckman" as well). But it's true that it shouldn't be such a copy of the Pac-Man article. Eric B 22:11, 29 Dec 2005
Okay, I went ahead and merged it into this article, and fixed all double redirects as necessary. - Hbdragon88 22:24, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge, I think it's time to merge 

message: Anyone else who has "Pacman Arrangement" notice that these names are switched. This is why I specified "red ghost" and orange ghost" yesterday, and now someone has changed it back to "Blinky" and "clyde" repsectively. I want to make sure that this is the way the game was programmed, and just not some sort of glitch on my copy of it (ncv2.zip, which I run with Mame0100b), before I edit the text with the following: 
Urchin/Clyde (the red ghost in this game) takes on the appearance of a Viking 
Crybaby/Blinky (the orange ghost in this game) spits out new larger 50 point pills. - Eric B 22:11, 29 Dec 2005
:Sorry about that.  I have played the Namco Museum version of Pac-Man Arrangement, but I didn't discern that much from it (such as the names, or that the sixth ghost is a power-up ghost).  I went through a major copyedit through the entire article, esepcially with that obnoxious TOC header ("Ghosts versus Monsters?  And other nomeclature conflicts") and other problems; the name swapping was another change.  Now that you've brought it up, I'll desist from editing that part of the article. - Hbdragon88 05:47, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Mine is the GameCube version.  I suppose I could check up the manual to see what their names are.  And I termed the title "obnoxious" because it stretched out the TOC a ridicuous amount.  And since there were other debates, I preferred to have the core header first, with the issue(s) listed under separate headers underneath the core header. Hbdragon88 02:14, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Red and orange ghost names swapped in "Arrangement"

message: In just doing a big edit; I at the last minute caught the little notice about page size. (I never realized what the limit of a page was supposed to be). I looked around to see what could be trimmed. Perhaps "Pacman Arrangement", Pacman VS", and "Mario Kart GT" could be reduced to single sentences in the "Successors" section, since those games have their own articles, which are linked. But that might not be enough to free up the needed 11KB. I'm thinking now of just creating a new article called "ghost-monster" and moving the entire "nomenclature conflicts" section (All of which I added in the last month or so) there.
Eric B 01:28, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Meh, I'm not too worried about it.  As for cutting, I would definitley trim down Pac-Manhattan, either putting it under trivia or slimming it down to a sentence or so, since it also has its own article.   - Hbdragon88 04:36, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: 42 KB!

message: Most of the knowledge here comes from actual game play, or at least memory (but with Mama/Pacmame) even those most obscure hack version does not need memory to be relied on anymore). It's not like some philosophical or scientifc theory or supposed finding that anyone could make up off the top of their head, without any substantiation or evidence. What is some book or link going to tell anyone about the game that actual players can't, or that any reader could not find out by buying or downloading games? I think the games are their own "source" or "reference".
At the very least, the quote from the guy from Slayer needs a source, as it is a direct quote. Kouban 15:08, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: What's the fuss about "sources"?

message: Can you edit the Pac-Man seies section? There're some Pac-Man games missing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.100.191.132 (talk • contribs) 17:05, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pac-Man Seies 

message: I think that there should be a separate article for the original game "Pac-Man", and the character, "Pac-Man"; as they are two separate entities, it seems only fair that they should have their own articles. The disambiguation page already has a bullet point for it. Besides, Pac-Man is in a lot of other games now, as well, which might not be construed as sequels to the original (Pac Man World, anyone?). And I'm sure we could dig up other juicy tidbits about his personality from the show, or something.
-Danfish77 02:32, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Character vs. Game?

message: I remember playing a version of Ms. Pac-Man in a CiCi's Pizza where the ghosts had been replaced with rats (however, they turned into the regular blue ghosts when a Power Pellet was eaten.)  Has anyone else seen this version or these sprites, and if so, was anything else different (as in the changes to Pac-Man Plus?) -- Goldrushcavi 23:53, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ms. Pac-Man with rats?

message: I added the following:
Hyper Pac Man (1994) created by Semicom 
Pac-Man VR (1996) created by Virtuality  
Puckman Pockimon (2000) created by Genie
I also added links to for each.
No, these are just hacks except for the VR game. I deleted 2. -- Elil 24 March 2006 (UTC)
Well at least add them to the Knock-offs section then!
--4.250.63.241 16:21, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added 3 missing Games 

message: Puzzle Club was a game by NAMCO featuring PAC-MAN, so why remove the info and call it vandalism?
It even listed sources as well.
Here is what was written:
===Puzzle Club===   
   
- Puzzle Club was created by Namco in 1990. This is puzzle game players had to solve different puzzles, many of which had Pac-Man themes. This game was suppose to be released into the arcades, but it never made it out of the prototype stage. In the game a player can choose between two types of games: Young called Pac-Man Story and Adult called floor exercise. The Pac-man Story game give you blocks with images of Pac-Man, Ms. Pac-Man and Baby Pac-Man on them, which are used to play a Sliding puzzle. Other characters from the Pac-Man games make appearances after each round as an award for solving the puzzle. 
--4.250.63.179 00:53, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  why the removal of the Puzzle Club info? 

message: - Puzzle Club was created by Namco in 1990. This is puzzle game players had to solve different puzzles, many of which had Pac-Man themes. This game was suppose to be released into the arcades, but it never made it out of the prototype stage. In the game a player can choose between two types of games: Young called Pac-Man Story and Adult called floor exercise. The Pac-man Story game give you blocks with images of Pac-Man, Ms. Pac-Man and Baby Pac-Man on them, which are used to play a Sliding puzzle. Other characters from the Pac-Man games make appearances after each round as an award for solving the puzzle. 
--4.250.63.179 00:53, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Puzzle Club

message: This expression appears to be too obscure to use. I checked the history and "to wit" was "corrected" to "to win" by some poor soul who thought he'd found a typo. I corrected it back and it got reverted as vandalism! There's something amusing about this, but to prevent this waste of time in the future, I simply replaced it with "which is this". If anybody wants to attempt a more extensive rewrite, be my guest. 82.92.119.11 21:57, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "To wit" 

message: Someone asked the question in the article; I deleted the question and am answering it here:
To add pictures to Wikipedia articles, you must:
# Become a logged-in user.  Users posting from anonymous IP addresses may not upload images to the server.
# Make sure that your image may be legally used by Wikipedia--public domain, your own creation, etc.  Most images found on the web (through google images, etc) are not allowed due to copyright restrictions.
# Click on the "upload file" link in the toolbox on the left.  Follow the directions.  Be sure to specify the licensing terms, showing acceptable copyright status, or the image will be deleted.
# Use the text Image:filename to refer to the image stored on the server.
Hope that helps,
--EngineerScotty 05:39, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adding pictures 

message: I know I've read somewhere that Iwatani himself stated that the whole pizza-inspiration thing was a fictional anecdote that he just jokingly tells to reporters. Unfortunately, I can't remember where and have no proof at the moment. Just wanted to throw that out there in case anyone knows what I'm talking about. -Lizard Dude 03:38, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pac-Man not pizza inspired 

message: The benefits of splitting #Atari 2600 off into its own article would include the following:
*Reduce the overall article length from 49kb to 45kb. (It's currently marked as too long.)
*We can then break it down into sections without ugly fifth- and sixth-level headings. (It's getting long enough that subsections are needed.)
*We can provide it with its own infobox. This is important since, as the text indicates, it's a different game, with different graphics, different programming, different people and companies behind it, and a very different level of commercial success.
Comments would be welcome. Seahen 21:07, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Split off 2600 version 

message: Only Space Invaders has managed this feat. However, aside from a Game Boy conversion in 1990 and a SNES conversion in 1997, the game saw few re-releases between 1982 and the game's 25th anniversary in 2005.
What exactly has space invaders accomplished that pac man did?  This could be made ALOT more clear or deleted entirely. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.132.227.238 (talk • contribs) 
:I was confused about this, too. I'm guessing it was referring to the popularity and multi-platform release, but even so, it probably doesn't belong in the section about Pac-Man ports, as neither did the statement about Pac-Guy. I removed them. --SevereTireDamage 16:53, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ports 

message: Does anyone mind if I shrink the Atari 2600 cart image (somewhat big now at 300x278px) and replace the ugly looking Gallery section with this?
Port screenshots    	Port screenshots 	Port screenshots   	Port screenshots	Port screenshots	Port screenshots
                    	                 	                   	                	                	
Atari 2600 (1982)   	Atari 5200 (1983)	Commodore 64 (1983)	                	                	
                    	120px            	                   	                	                	
Intellivision (1983)	SAM Coupé (1991) 	NES (1993)         	                	                	
--SevereTireDamage 22:40, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If we're taking a vote here, I'd be in favor of replacing the current gallery with this nice succinct one you've designed. --Birdhombre 01:01, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The old gallery was partly covered on my screen by another image, so the three-column gallery is a bug-fix, so I've gone ahead with it. Only, I don't agree with italicizing the header. SeahenNeonMerlin 15:15, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image layout in Ports section 

message: Can anybody find a source saying the original name was "PUCK MAN"? My understanding was that the original name was "Puck-Man". TJ Spyke 06:09, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  PUCK MAN or Puck-Man? 

message: I'm a little confused by something. In the good article review, it was noted the images did not have Fair Use rationales. However, they all had boilerplate tags on them, mostly game-screenshot. Doesn't that cover the fair use provision? Or is a further "fair use" description repeating what the tag says required? I was under the impression that the boilerplates covered all this. --SevereTireDamage 06:53, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fair use images 

message: I added the Japanese language for the names of the ghosts, but I'm wondering about the translation of the name "Otoboke" as "stupid."  I've consulted three different Japanese dictionaries, and each defines "otoboke" as "one who feigns ignorance" or "one who plays dumb."  Is it possible that "stupid" was used simply because there is no convenient equivalent word in English ("Someone who plays dumb" just doesn't have the same ring...)?  Anyone know the source of these translations?-Sarfa 23:34, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Japanese Ghost Names 

message: I may be wrong, but wasn't the pacman craze either refered to then or now as Pacmania? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Satchfan (talk • contribs) 11:37, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This may be true, but if it were to be included here we would definitely need a media citation. --SevereTireDamage 14:57, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pacmania