Talk:Bobby Jones (golfer)

message: I had written an expanded bio. on Bobby Jones and thus "...helped Wikipedia". I thought it was a fairly decent and well written article. However, for some reason it was deleted with the explanation that I had "...made a mess...". Could someone explain to me what is meant by "mess" and how I can avoid making "messes" in future. Thank you.
-> This entire article has a biased point of view.  Much of it just makes wild claims about Bobby Jones being "the greatest" without stating any real facts or regarding these opinions as just that - opinions.  Instead, they are made as statements.  I fixed one of the last lines on the page to a more neutral point of view.  It had previously stated that "Bobby Jones is without a doubt the greatest golfer the world has ever seen."  Even though the next line says, "However some disagree" that still doesn't make such a bold statement any less ridiculous.  That's something you'd find in a biography of Bobby Jones - not in an 'encyclopedia article' where people are looking for facts and figures and history... not silly opinions.
:That text was just some bullocks added by an anonymous vandal.  I removed it.  If you see something that's just overtly wrong, don't hesitate to remove it. -- uberpenguin @ 2006-07-16 23:33Z
::But how do you know he was a vandal? He could have just missed the point and become overly opinionated, a common trap here in Wikipedia world. I agree with  the above dude. Statements like "Bobby Jones is without a doubt the greatest golfer the world has ever seen" are hardly encyclopoedia material because there is doubt indeed. Nicklaus or even Woods might too be so considered. Based on stats, it's undoubtedly Nicklaus. Based on current over-bearing media opionion and potential, it's Woods. Based on winning the Grand Slam (a feat still unacheived by Nicklaus or Woods), all-the-while getting two prestigious degrees, being admitted to the bar, and quitting on a high note, it's Jones. "Greatest" is a word that is hard to quantify. Accordingly, the author could have said that 1) some believe he is the greatest; 2) why some believe so; and 3) who else could be so considered; then included a small discussion about the commonalities and differences in the three golfers' greatenesses (hee hee - is that a word?).137.186.248.248 18:37, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Help or Mess?

message: I really like the new table, but the colors are kind of hard to understand. What do red and blue mean? —Disavian (talk/contribs) 16:54, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Professional Wins 

message: There's a neutrality warning on the article, but I don't see where there is a discussion about any particular issue in it.  If there's no particular problem, the tag should be removed.  PKT(alk) 14:17, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see any reason to keep the neutrality template either. Does anyone see any reason not to remove it? Meters (talk) 23:55, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Nope. If it was based on the complaint above, that was clearly addressed.--Reedmalloy (talk) 06:43, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Placed by anon IP, no talk page discussion started. I've removed it. Tewapack (talk) 15:44, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality ? 

message: i noticed you did not list an Amateur championship wins as "Major Championship Wins" for any of the other great champions as was the case with Bobby Jones . i.e.... Nicklaus, Woods, etc.
Please explain. 
thanks Brian  
bwashi2@entergy.com  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.200.9.48 (talk) 05:07, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  JJones' major championship wins 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Bobby Jones (golfer). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Bobby Jones (golfer). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131012024707/http://www.masters.com/en_US/discover/past_winners.html to http://www.masters.com/en_US/discover/past_winners.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130917150357/http://www.bobbyjones.com:80/golf-legend/ to http://www.bobbyjones.com/golf-legend/
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Bobby Jones (golfer). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added  tag to http://157.166.226.103/augusta/inaugusta/news/2002/04/08/jones_statue/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131017211955/http://www.golf.com/photos/infamous-golf-rules-violations-blunders/bobby-jones-1925-us-open to http://www.golf.com/photos/infamous-golf-rules-violations-blunders/bobby-jones-1925-us-open
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131016164928/http://www.theopen.com/en/History/OpenChampions.aspx to http://www.theopen.com/en/History/OpenChampions.aspx
*Added  tag to http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/AmericanGolfer/1921/ag2411e.pdf
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.bobbyjones.com/golf-legend/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121031155043/http://www.bobbyjonesgolfdvd.com/ to http://www.bobbyjonesgolfdvd.com/
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: In a series of edits, User:FieldMarine added categories to the article and also moved the birth and death categories to the beginning of the list. When I reverted the movement of these categories he reverted, saying "Arrange cats to standardize - please take to talk page first before moving again - thanks." According to WP:CATDEF, "the order in which categories are placed on a page is not governed by any single rule (for example, it does not need to be alphabetical, although partially alphabetical ordering can sometimes be helpful). Normally the most essential, significant categories appear first." There is no standard. My edit arranged them in a logical manner: golf categories first, miltary cats next, then occupation cats, then educational cats, then misc. cat, ending with born/died. These groupings are arranged by most important to least important, as per WP:CATDEF (although an argument could be made to switch the military and occupation groups). I propose my re-ordering is more logical. Tewapack (talk) 17:38, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I recommend keeping the birth and death or living cats on the top. In my experience, this is consistant with the majority of articles I see in Wikipedua, and IMHO, consistency is good. I also see many articles with cats being alphabetized with numbers to the top. IMHO, alphabetizing also has merit, as i’m not an expert to judge which cat is most important, so it leaves personal opinion out of the sorting decision. Semper Fi! FieldMarine (talk) 17:49, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: It is not consistent with other golfer articles, which have the birth/death/living cats at the end - they are the least defining cats. Tewapack (talk) 18:18, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

text: IMHO, as a general rule and where appropriate, Wikipedia as a whole would benefit from consistency across the articles, so I recommend making golfer articles in a similar format as the majority. Also, IMHO, categories do not need to be sorted with the most important on the top. I do not believe that is a requirement for sorting cats nor do I see the value in it. Since doing it that way follows a subjective approach, I don't recommend it. Also, in terms of defining, who is to say birth and living / death cats is not among the most. These being the least defining cats is subjective. Semper Fi! FieldMarine (talk) 11:55, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll again quote from WP:CATDEF, "the order in which categories are placed on a page is not governed by any single rule (for example, it does not need to be alphabetical, although partially alphabetical ordering can sometimes be helpful). Normally the most essential, significant categories appear first." Your opinion versus WP guidelines - guidelines win. Tewapack (talk) 15:25, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

text: Easy - if you could only add three categories to this page, what would they be? They'd all be golf related because that is what Jones is known for - his defining characteristics - not when or where he lived/died/was buried. Tewapack (talk) 22:14, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

text: Look at WP:CATDEF - "A central concept used in categorising articles is that of the defining characteristics of a subject of the article. A defining characteristic is one that reliable sources commonly and consistently define the subject as having..." Why is there a Wikipedia article on Bobby Jones? Because of his golfing accomplishments - that is most defining characteristic. It is not because he was born in 1902 - millions of people were born that year but only ~5000 are notable enough to have a Wikipedia article. Tewapack (talk) 22:58, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

text: Putting birth and death cats first became popular when some users started alphabetizing categories. But bots that alphabetize category ordering have failed to be approved (see Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)/Archive 114#Create a BOT to alphabetize and organize categories automatically, for example). The bottom line is that the birth/death categories being last has been the precedent on this page for many years. Tewapack (talk) 15:52, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Category order 

message: This recent edition is worth discussing. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bobby_Jones_(golfer)&curid=434385&diff=1111406078&oldid=1110629681 —¿philoserf? (talk) 21:48, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  professional status