Talk:The New Colossus

message: saving a draft here, cause I'm not so sure about it.
de:The New Colossus
:The New Colossus is an Emma Lazarus poem, written for and inscribed in the Statue of Liberty.
:Not like the brazen giant of a Greek fame
The allusion here is to the Colossus of Rhodes 
:With conquering limbs astride from land to land
The Colossus of Rhodes at one time was imagined to stand atride the harbour of Rhodes, but this is now felt to have been incorrect
:Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates will stand
:A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
:Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
:Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
:Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
:The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame. 
the twin cities that frame New York Harbor are New York and Elizabeth, New Jersey <-- this still needs to be checked, may be NY + Brooklyn?
:
:"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
:With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
:Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
:The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
:Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
:I lift my lamp beside the golden door."(Unsigned)
:Regarding the "twin cities" it most assuredly is a reference to NYC and Brooklyn, which were still seperate cities at the time the poem was written in 1883, but would have both been considered majo enough to warrant mention. Also, Jersey City, not Elizabeth, is the closest NJ city to Liberty Island. (Unsigned)
::You are right about Brooklyn not being incorporated into NYC until 1894, but Liberty Island is clearly located between NYC and Jersey City, see here. On the other hand the same line mentions a "mysterious" "air bridge" ("The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame."), probably referring to Brooklyn Bridge which was opened in the same year the poem was written (4032).  So it might be Manhattan and Brooklyn after all. Maikel (talk) 14:56, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Or Jersey City and Brooklyn. Maikel (talk) 17:16, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Draft

message: I knew this from don't remember where, and found further substantiation at Talk:Emma_Lazarus
Will also edit German version
--BjKa 09:34, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Fundraising Reference

message: What Does the new Colussus mean?
:The old colossus is the one of Rhodes. Maikel (talk) 14:18, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: New Colossus

message: Two questions regarding the missing comma...
*Was it on purpose?
*Why didn't they fix it?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ben.yarmis (talk • contribs) 03:49, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I was just about to ask that. My first act as president will be to add that comma. Surely our government can offord a comma!
Watch this: ,,,,,,,,,,,,
Wikipedia is over a dozen times richer than the US government! 75.118.170.35 (talk) 22:34, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Comma?

message: Recently added:
:James Fulford authored a classic essay discussing the origins of the statue and how it came to be identified more with immigration than with liberty. 
We have no article on James Fulford. No citation is presented indicating that a reliable source considers this essay to be a "classic," or even important. It's not clear to me who James Fulford is, other than a contributor to VDARE, which seems to be some sort of blog or web magazine devoted to opposing immigration and multiculturalism.
I don't think this belongs in the article. It smacks to me of promoting VDARE.
If there's some sort of current movement to reclaim the Statue of Liberty to its original purpose—described by Fulford as the celebration of "the participation of France in the American War of Independence, and the perpetual friendship of the two nations"—and sources can be cited to show this movement has some important, then it's worth noting, although I'd think that would belong better in the Statue of Liberty article than here. Dpbsmith (talk) 20:55, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not a "classic essay." Is it even important? 

message: I'm not quite sure if this was brought up...
I'm pretty sure it has been brought up before, but was anyone other than me wondering why the article was titled "the New Colossus", but didn't have the sonnet?  It has history, yes, but not the actual sonnet.  Just wondering if this could be fixed maybe?
Swimmerfreak94 (talk) 01:45, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: If you mean the quote box at the top was only showing "—Emma Lazarus, 1883" and no text above, then I think I fixed that with this edit. Why an extra pipe character should cause this problem I cannot understand. 84user (talk) 17:43, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Just Wondering 

message: I'm not sure why the layout is the way it is, but the wikisource box and the image at the top of the page appear inside the Quote box, not outside of it like they are in the page code. For some reason, this causes the image and the wikisource link to be un-clickable, at least on my machine. I'm not sure of the best way to fix it, but I think it needs to be fixed.
The Editor1 (talk) 22:49, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Formatting error 

message: Why is no mention made of the Irving Berlin setting of the last few lines?
Dfrankchat (talk) 19:01, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anthem? 

message: The 'other uses' section is slowly turning into a 'references' section. I'm not sure if something like that would contribute to the article. This sonnet is pretty famous and we could get an endless list of music, movies and other media referencing to it. I suggest we either stick to references that are very important, actually list its other uses or remove the section altoghter. Any thoughts? ~ Zirguezi 21:08, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: If no one has any objections I'm going to go ahead and remove some references in the other uses section. ~ Zirguezi 20:43, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  'Other uses' section 

message: There should be a comment that since 9-11 it has been the fearful and stingy voices in the US who have stridently taken center stage, making this sonnet irrelevant and nonrepresentative of the post-Bin-Laden America. Or is it America, without her ideals? Did Bin Laden actually destroy America? This sonnet stands as testimony.AtomAnt (talk) 15:44, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Section 

message: Is the description of the Irving Berlin song as "overly sentimental" not a bit non-NPOV? I appreciate that the editing of this section has been somewhat controversial in the past, so rather than simply deleting "overly", I thought I would see if anyone had any thoughts.  Harris (talk) 11:58, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Its sourced and the source says "schmaltzy". It would be a matter of following through with multiple sources that have this view. Removing it for now. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 14:41, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Influence section 

message: The article and the plaque itself describe it as being an engraving, which is, according to the Wikipedia article, "...the practice of incising a design onto a hard, usually flat surface by cutting grooves into it."  It very much seems to be a casting however.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.113.85.76 (talk) 16:57, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Engraving or casting? 

message: What is the justification for rendering "Mother of Exiles" in small caps?  Neither the plaque nor the manuscript seems to support this.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.113.85.76 (talk) 20:17, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: After seeing a current back-and-forth mini edit war, I come here to ask the same question. The change to small caps was done by User:Frellthat in this diff (pinging them for a possible explanation). I thought it might be an attempt to highlight the first occurrence of the synonym/redirect Mother of Exiles (normally done in bold, see MOS:BOLD, yet maybe they felt it looked awkward, which it would), but anyway, that lemma actually redirects to the article on the statue, not to this one on the sonnet). ---Sluzzelin talk 22:14, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

text: I totally misread: there was no edit war. I only saw someone changing it back to normal sentence case. All is good now, and the question is moot (imo). ---Sluzzelin talk 20:36, 27 June 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Small caps 

message: This question has come up periodically over the years on this page (see here, here, here), but not recently. What is the appropriate balance of including significant cultural references to this poem while not including every single time somebody out there adapts it, mentions it on a TV show, etc.? As other editors have noted above, there is a risk it would "turn this page into a feud regarding which are important" (User:Grunionspawn) or "an endless list of music, movies and other media" (User:Zirguezi). 
These points were made years ago, but they are only more likely now, given the current political climate in the U.S. and several high-profile references to the poem by political figures for and against the current administration. There are of course Wikipedia policies and guidelines that inform this issue -- undue weight/balancing aspects; Wikipedia is not a newspaper; Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information; and recency bias. But I'm not sure if there is complete consensus on whether these types of lists should exist and how they would be populated. Because this work is so well known and so influential right now, it seems to me it must be something more than "I have a secondary source (or a couple of them) that mentions the derivative work/reference"--that's trivial to do if it's a prominent artist/series/film in 2019. It has not gotten out of hand on this page yet, but I think there have been a decent number of recent edits going back and forth about adding stuff. For example, see this diff from this week. (pinging User:Smallbones and User:Andrew.weston for any thoughts)
This seems like it might be a good place to apply something like the 10 year test--will this reference be notable or have any significance ten years from now? This would, for example, seem to favor keeping the Irving Berlin adaptation, but cutting the reference to the short-lived Netflix show The OA. (In fact, that line is currently sourced only to a YouTube video, so I'm going to remove it now for that reason. But I'd argue for cutting it even if it had a good source.) I thought perhaps we could reach some semblance of a consensus guideline here before any kind of edit war gets started--and then, if editors (especially inexperienced ones) add things that don't belong, they can be pointed to this discussion to understand why they were reverted. Thoughts? --EightYearBreak (talk)  15:53, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm desperately trying to get out of town for a long weekend, but I'll just say that I deleted the other recent cultural reference as "trivial" because it seemed to just mention the title, not actually read the poem itself. I do support the ten-year rule here (and most places) and do think that most of the current political discussion will be very relevant in the long term. Smallbones(smalltalk) 17:17, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criteria for including cultural references, adaptations, etc. 

message: This section is biased towards falsified reporting (references 22 and 23) on his actual use of the poem in order to defame him. On the CNN interview, he did not say that the poem somehow signals that only the Europeans cannot be a public charge. Media outlets are not even stretching the interpretation of his comment. They are slapping the label on him and tracing back from there to say he's a racist. 
All in all, has absolutely nothing to do with this poem, and I am removing this section.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 156.215.140.108 (talk) 17:35, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: "Falsified reporting" sounds like "Fake News!" in a dinner jacket. Perhaps a video source of the interview will help. I've added one. If you can cite evidence that the video was doctored, you might consider adding that. If you feel that this article misconstrues Cuccinelli's comments by omission, you could attempt to fill in that gap. You could also cite a published counterpoint to Ron Charles's criticism.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.15.21.250 (talk) 20:00, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Ken Cuccinelli and The New Colossus

message: It gives part of the reason for the inspiration of the poem, but was it this poem that I read had some sort of Bible reference as part of its inspiration? Misty MH (talk) 02:19, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Was there some other text that partly was included in, or inspired, this poem? Misty MH (talk) 02:20, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inspiration? Bible reference?