Talk:Fritz Sauckel

message: While Justice Jackson described Sauckel as 'the greatest and cruellest Slaver since the Pharoahs of Egypt' in his closing speech, there has since been some debate over whether Sauckel deserved his sentence. Sauckel, deeply implicated as a leading Nazi, certainly deserved punishment for his involvement, but there exist questions over whether his actions merited the death sentence. Airey Neave covers this controversy in depth. For example (taken once again from Neave's book Nuremberg):
*"Sauckel was given wide powers to carry out the mobilisation of German and foreign workers, including prisoners of war, in the Reich and in occupied territories. He was appointed by Hitler personally and promised to work with 'fanatical devotion'. He carried out his task to the letter. in 1945, he seems to have been genuinely surprised to discover the war was lost and that he was considered a criminal.
:Does Sauckel deserve the title of 'the greatest Slaver of all time?' Speer was a much stronger candidate and Goering, too, as the boss of the German Four Year Plan. Sauckel was a simple man who believed that the German armed forces had to be supplied to win the war. He therefore assumed that the task given him by Hitler had the highest purpose. Sauckel did not waver in this illusion till he died on the gallows. Early in the trial, he told Gilbert, the psychologist, 'About the misuse of foreign workers. I am not really responsible for that. I was like a seamen's agency - if I supply hands for a ship, I am not responsible for any cruelty that may be exercised aboard ship without my knowledge'." (p. 135)
Neave continues:
*"Hitler never cared about anyone, even his own soldiers, whose suffering he ignored. But Sauckel, ingenuous though he was, wanted to be human. His own records produced at Nuremberg bear this out. He intended that foreign workers should have the same treatment as ordinary Germans. Unfortunately, he had no authority over the ghastly conditions in many labour camps." (p.136)
*"I am glad I did not witness his death. Sauckel did not deserve to hang. He was a stupid but genuine man, who never read a book. He accepted Nazi doctrines without question and believed that his actions were justified by moral principles. In this terrible self-delusion, the thousands who died in the transports and camps were forgotten. But not at Nuremberg. There in the courtroom, their sad ghosts overwhelmed him and he bowed his head. Sauckel said to Dr Gilbert on receiving the indictment, 'The abyss between the ideal of a social community which I imagined as a former seaman and worker, and the terrible happenings in the concentration camps has shaken me deeply'
:Sauckel and many others fell into that abyss, still believers in the myth of a chivalrous Germany." (p.137)
On the subject of the verdict, Neave later writes:
*"Albert Speer, who in my opinion, was the real architect of the slave labour programme got twenty years imprisonment. His unattractive working-class lieutenant Sauckel went to the gallows on the night of Goering's suicide.
:It is true that Speer made a favourable impression on the judges though whether Professor Smith is right to accuse them of 'class bias' and 'social prejudice' is doubtful. I found that they were convinced of Speer's sincere repentance but this did not prevent Biddle and Nikitchenko from recommending that he be sentenced to death. His twenty year sentence was a compromise. (p.312)
*"What has most troubled me is the comparison with the fate meted out to the wrteched Sauckel. Why should Sauckel, who procured foreign workers for Speer as Armaments Minister, be the more guilty? I was struck by the contemptuous attitude of many at Nuremberg to the proletarian Sauckel. The judges dealt with his case in record time and unanimously sentenced him to death. After hearing this, he said, pathetically, 'I have never been cruel myself'.
:Sauckel had certainly operated the slave labour programme with ruthless efficiency, but who was in charge of policy? Albert Speer. The judges deliberated over his case for a long time and to the last were deadlocked about the sentence. Then on September 11th by a majority of three to one, Nikitchenko dissenting, they agreed on a sentence of twenty years." (p.313)
Sauckel certainly deserved to pay a price for his part in the Nazi forced labour programme, stupid and ingenuous though he was. However, it is also appropriate to note that the criticism of the judges by Professor Bradley Smith that Neave cites in his book (Smith's accusation of 'class bias') is probably wide of the mark too, not least because one might reasonably expect Nikitchenko and Volchkov (the Russian judges at Nuremberg) to exhibit, if anything, 'class bias' in reverse of that criticised by Professor Smith. One might expect them to have been particularly suspicious of Albert Speer, and indeed Nikitchenko appeared, by Neave's account, to be thus suspicious of him. It would be interesting to see if any later deliberations have shed more light on this issue - any takers? Calilasseia 14:32, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Later Contoversy Over Sauckel's Sentence

message: I noticed that the Nazi flag has been added to the infobox without any surrounding text.  I'm not interested in working on this article myself but, if you are, please consult WP:FLAG for guidelines on proper style. –  SJL 05:43, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flag 

message: He was certainly an war criminal, but the fact that his superior was sentenced to 20 years, and he got the death penalty seems today controversial, from any point of view. I ask someone please to add a chapter to the controversy about his execution.85.244.52.171 (talk) 18:44, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Controversy About His Execution

message: 1. Sauckel was not a subordinate of Albert Speer, his was a direct appointment of Hitler's. This is noted in Joachim Fest's "Speer the final verdict" whereby Fest notes Kehrl, Krisenmanager, p. 342 and also highlights the fact that Sauckel's independence allowed him to compete with Speer and ignore his requests. 
2. Speer did not choose Sauckel for the position, as noted in "Speer the final verdict", Speer's advice was that Karl Hanke should be choosen, this was overuled by Boorman and Hitler (Fest, p. 147)
3. Sauckel's crimes resulted in large part from the kidnapping of citizens in occupied Europe and the East, hardly the same treatment that German citizens would receive (Fest, p. 148)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.237.2.249 (talk) 12:25, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Factual Errors in this article

message: I thought this issue was rather vague, as the Nazi hierarchy wasn't so clearly defined.Mtsmallwood (talk) 05:40, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Right to call Speer Sauckel's superior?

message: It seems like each article dealing with Nazis executed by hanging has a similar photo of the hanged person. Such photos are unnecessary and certainly disturbing.
I suggest either the removal of all of these photographs or at a minimum a warning in any article that shows such images.
I expect to hear back on this soon -- I feel strongly enough about this to begin removal of such photos.--Jrm2007 (talk) 03:36, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This photo documents an objective historical fact.  It demonstrates not only that the subject of the article was executed, but also that the Allied Powers insisted that the body of the subject be photographed after the execution to remove any doubt that the subject has been executed.  It should remain in the article.  Your objection is subjective based on your own sense of what is disturbing.Mtsmallwood (talk) 03:53, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe most people would find graphic pictures of people hanged to be disturbing. My objection however, would be on the grounds that it's not very encyclopaedic.  Encyclopedia Britannica and Encyclopedia Americana had access to the photos of these executed men for over half a century and never included them.  Also, just where does Wikipedia draw the line?  I would hope the autopsy pictures of John F. Kennedy wouldn't be posted.TL36 (talk) 03:59, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

text: SO many things wrong with that viewpoint - from the humane treatment of German POW's to international treaties about the use of POW's for labor. HammerFilmFan (talk) 00:13, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  VERY IMPORTANT: Photo of hanged person 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion