Talk:Billings ovulation method

message: The information that I started the page with is considered accurate by the Billings Organisation. Any additional information added might not be considered accurate by the Billings Organisation. I also checked the source for the use related pregnancy rates and adjusted the statement for accuracy. The other unsourced information about total pregnancy rate is unsourced and appears unsuitable for a discussion of Billings alone since it does not measure Billings separately.  Wanfactor 02:24, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Comment

message: I spoke to Dr. Billings a number of years ago, I think it was in the 90's.  He said that he got the idea for his method in 1950 and started research in 1951.  I spoke to him at a pro-life meeting in the San Jose area.  It was close to the Great America theme park.  He had just finished a talk in one of the lecture rooms of the fancy hotel where the conference was being conducted.  
Richard Bruce 00:58, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The information in the history section is sourced from an article that Dr. Billings authored. I wouldn't be comfortable with putting in statements that he related orally that contradicted what he wrote. Lyrl    Talk     Contribs   02:13, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: History

message: I've seen references online that the book by Evelyn Billings says that three African tribes and one Austrailian Aborigines tribe was discovered to have known the fertility significance of cervical mucus.  This seems of historical interest, but I don't have the book and the online references are pretty disjointed, so I would be hesitant to write anything based off of them. I thought I'd put the suggestion here in case anyone has the book. Lyrl    Talk     Contribs   21:29, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Historical use of mucus by African tribes? 

message: In accordance with WOOMB preference, I have changed the description from Natural Family Planning to Natural Fertility Regulation. This is beneficial for a couple of reasons  1) Not all BOM users are using this information to 'plan a family' and 2) the wikipedia entry on Natural Family Planning is not descriptive or relevant to the Billings Ovulation Method. I have also removed the paragraph on Natural Family Planning for the same reason.
18:20, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Billings As not "Natural Family Planning"

message: This article has been categorized with other methods of fertility awareness since July 2006.  It was recently re-categorized with coitus interruptus and sexual abstinence (diff).  The old :Category:Periodic abstinence has been nominated for deletion.
I feel this new grouping is less useful.  Someone unfamiliar with methods of fertility awareness could previously read the intro paragraph to fertility awareness and then have a good idea what all articles in :Category:Periodic abstinence were about ("determin[ing] the fertile and infertile phases of [the] menstrual cycle" and timing unprotected intercourse based on that information).  I believe the new categorization scheme is not as useful as the old one - it only offers the information to the navigator that behavior modification is involved, like that involved in coitus interruptus.  Nothing about fertility or the periodicity of the behavioral aspects.  What do others think? Lyrl    Talk     C   20:19, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There seems to be a rough consensus at Categories for discussion to put this article into a new :Category:Fertility awareness.  I'll leave this notice here for a couple of days, and if there are no objections, go ahead and create the new category. Lyrl    Talk     C   01:42, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Categorization - what articles should this one be grouped with? 

message: Why is Toni Weschler listed in the "see also" section?  I understand her book has greatly promoted fertility awareness - but, so did Pope Paul VI (author of Humanae Vitae, which declared "medical science should by the study of natural rhythms succeed in determining a sufficiently secure basis for the chaste limitation of offspring." ).  Why should Weschler be listed and not others important to the spread of FA (such as John Billings)? Lyrl    Talk     C   03:03, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Toni Weschler is primarily notable for teaching fertility awareness for over twenty years.  Weschler's Taking Charge of Your Fertility is a groundbreaking reference manual for learning fertility awareness methods.  Many people consider TCOYF to be the definitive manual on FA methods.  Weschler didn't give a brand-style name to the methods she described in her book which is why there is no link to "her method" as with Billings et al.  The reason we don't list John Billings is that the Billings ovulation method is linked.  You haven't demonstrated that Weschler is not immediately relevant to various fertility awareness methods.  Weschler has made fertility awareness methods her life's work.  There is no reason not to link to her article from articles on fertility awareness methods.  Joie de Vivre 03:27, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Weschler did give a brand-style name to her sympto-thermal system (Fertility Awareness Method or FAM).  I disagree that either making fertility awareness one's life work or being groundbreaking in the field of fertility awareness warrants a link in the see also section.  But I see that Weschler has done both, and so does have a higher level of relevance than other possible topics/people. Lyrl    Talk     C   19:43, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  See also - Toni Weschler 

message: This article has been moved to :Category:Fertility tracking as part of a planned deletion of :Category:Periodic abstinence, :Category:Fertility awareness, and :Category:Natural family planning.  Please bring up any concerns at Category talk:Periodic abstinence.  If there are no objections within four days, these three categories will be tagged for speedy deletion. Lyrl    Talk     C   21:07, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Category move

message: I will start off by saying that I do realize that this picture is in the Billings book. However, there are reasons that it would be better that the article not include pictures of mucus.
1) The Billings' have been trying for years (unsuccessfully) to have the pictures of mucus removed from the Billings Ovulation Method book.
2) The BOM is about women's own observations of their sensation and discharge, without comparison to the visual characteristics of other women's mucus, and with an emphasis on sensation rather than appearance.
3) The fingers in the photo may cause people to associate the Billings Method with touching mucus, which is not part of the method.
Perhaps a picture of mucus would be more appropriate in an article about cervical mucus, or one about a method which emphasizes the visual and *felt* characteristics of mucus.  Wanfactor (talk) 18:50, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Pictures of mucus

message: There is a user that has, over the past two years, repeatedly added an external link to the site billingsmentor.org.  I have reverted this addition recently with the comment that it is commercial.  The latest addition has the text that the site offers "free self guided learning".  This is a bit disingenuous.  The site offers paid software and paid instruction by people.  That it offers a "hook" of basic information that is readily available on many other websites does not get around the fact that it is a commercial site.  I do not see any justification under what to link guidelines for including this site in the external links section.  Please discuss here if I am missing something. LyrlTalk     C   13:20, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  External link 

message: Reference Problems
1. Trials of the Billings Ovulation Method The Billings Method, Dr. Evelyn Billings & Ann Westmore, 2000, p. 215.
This reference has no third-party publisher. It links to a commercial website, which is a bad link as well.
2. ^ Evaluation of the Effectiveness of a Natural Fertility Regulation Programme in China: Shao-Zhen Qian, et al. Reproduction and Contraception (English edition), in press 2000.
Reference links to the same commercial website.
3. ^ Hatcher, RA; Trussel J; Stewart F; et al. (2000). Contraceptive Technology (18th Edition ed.). New York: Ardent Media. .
Reference links to a commercial website that has not mentioned the article.
4. ^ a b c d THE QUEST - leading to the discovery of the Billings Ovulation Method, Billings, J., Bulletin of Ovulation Method Research and Reference Centre of Australia, Vol 29 No.1 March 2002, pp18-28.
5. Jump up ^ The Discovery of Different Types of Cervical Mucus, Erik Odeblad, Bulletin of the Ovulation Method Research and Reference Centre of Australia, Volume 21 No.3 September 1994, pp3-35.
6. Jump up ^ Ovarian Activity and Fertility and the Billings Ovulation Method: Dr. James B. Brown, 2000.
No third-party publisher for this article
7. ^ Cervical Mucus and their functions, Erik Odeblad, Journal of the Irish Colleges of Physicians and Surgeons, Vol. 26 No.1 January 1997.
8. ^ Kippley, John; Sheila Kippley (1996). The Art of Natural Family Planning (4th Edition ed.). Cincinnati, OH: The Couple to Couple League. p. 88. .
9. ^ China Successfully Launching Billings Method: Dr. Shao-Zhen Qian
Reference links to the same commercial website
10. ^ Teaching the Billings Ovulation Method, Dr E. L. Billings AM, MB BS, DCH (London), 2001.
No third-party publisher for this article
11. ^ Part. 2 Variations of the Cycle and Reproductive Health, Evelyn L. Billings and John J Billings.
No third-party publisher for this article or year of publishing.
Other Problems:
Both external links are the same or similar commercial websites.
Billings Ovulation Method has TM.
Obvious advertising languages such as:
"Benefit: Low cost, no prerequisites for use, no side effects, can aid pregnancy achievement"  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Antonasar (talk • contribs) 14:03, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  This page is largely commercially-based with poor reference 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: "== Scientific verification ==
In the early 1960s, James Brown took a position at the Royal Women's Hospital in Melbourne, Australia. Brown had earlier developed the first tests to measure oestrogen and progesterone, and he used these tests to assist Billings in further study of the relationship between cervical mucus and fertility. Evelyn Billings joined the research team in 1965. By the late 1960s, the rules for identifying fertile days had been established and teaching centers began to be set up around the world. The method was called the Ovulation Method, to emphasize that the central feature of a woman's fertility cycle was ovulation, rather than menstruation. In the 1970s, a committee of the World Health Organization renamed it the Billings Ovulation Method®.
Scientific verification of the Billings Method is ongoing. James Brown continued to study ovarian activity until his death in 2009. Erik Odeblad was acquainted with the Billings Ovulation Method® in 1977, and reported that his research into the activity of the cervix confirmed all the conclusions made by Billings. Odeblad's research into the cervix and cervical mucus also continued for many decades."
This was added by an editor with what appears to be a COI. A ref from 1970 does not verify that Brown died in 1970. Also this article is not about Brown. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 18:20, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. And, folks, we need to take WP:COI issues very seriously. Good on Doc James looking out for stuff like this. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 00:19, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Ongoing issues