Template talk:Intricate template

message: ===Optional parameters===
This tag specifies that the associated template contains one or more optional parameters, but it seems as though this is true of only some of the templates to which this tag is intended to apply.  Is this correct?  Of so, that sentence should be removed.  —Lifeisunfair 18:45, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, you might have right, there could be templates using the list/loop syntax, without refering to optional parameters, but the mass templates using esoteric syntax are using them for enable optional paramters. --AzaToth talk 19:44, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

text: Yes, but WP:AUM was rejected, there can be legit reasons to use esoteric templates, especially if they are subst ituted. Omniplex 14:07, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion

message: This tag specifies that the associated template contains one or more optional parameters, but it seems as though this is true of only some of the templates to which this tag is intended to apply.  Is this correct?  Of so, that sentence should be removed.  —Lifeisunfair 18:45, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, you might have right, there could be templates using the list/loop syntax, without refering to optional parameters, but the mass templates using esoteric syntax are using them for enable optional paramters. --AzaToth talk 19:44, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Optional parameters

message: Aren't templates using this template likely to violate WP:AUM...? -- SCZenz 10:13, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, but WP:AUM was rejected, there can be legit reasons to use esoteric templates, especially if they are subst ituted. Omniplex 14:07, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Meta-templates? 

message: That's funny how they use a second box.<BR><BR>FLaRN2005 (talk) 20:52, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  lol 

message: Why do all of these message boxes use tables for the box instead of a div? — Omegatron 14:53, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Since tables make it much easier to handle the left side image. --David Göthberg 08:02, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tables 

message: Please add sv:Mall:Komplicerad kod. / skagedal... 17:09, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done --Ligulem 21:39, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Swedish interwiki 

message: 
Please remove link to Esoteric programming language as it is nonsensical in context of this template. The Esoteric programming language article states, "An esoteric programming language is a programming language designed as a test of the boundaries of computer programming language design, as a proof of concept, or as a joke. There is usually no intention of the language being adopted for real-world programming." Such is not the case in the instances when this template is employed. Rather, the template syntax is merely complex, not "esoteric." TS3 23:22, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Link removed.  'wikt:Esoteric' can also mean "understood only by a few", but personally, I think the template would be better renamed to "Complex" or something similar Proto::► 10:37, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Esoteric programming language]] 

message: Dear administrator, please add the following interwiki link:
 ia:Patrono:Esoteric
Thank you in advance, Julian 21:29, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: (Already done as of 05:50, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Interwiki link for Interlingua 

message: Let's replace "the setup", which really doesn't make any parseable sense in the context at all, with "parser functions"  — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 11:47, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done! ZsinjTalk 23:42, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Let's make it make sense and link to useful things

message: Replace old:
template begins

	This template employs complicated or esoteric features of template syntax.Please do not attempt to alter it unless you are certain that you understand parser functions and are prepared to repair/revert any consequent collateral damage if the results are unexpected.  Any experiments should be conducted in the template sandbox or your user space.
template ends



	Actually, this template's syntax is relatively simple, but templates that link to the above message should use esoteric syntax.  This template adds templates to :Category:Esoteric templates.

This template is for templates with esoteric syntax.
with new:
<noinclude>template begins

	This template employs intricate features of template syntax. Please do not alter it unless you are certain to understand its setup and parser functions and Any experiments should be conducted and all improvements tested in the ,
<noinclude>template ends



	Actually, this template's syntax is relatively simple, but templates that link to the above message should be intricate, e.g. complex, using less obvious techniques, esoteric syntax, combining different techniques, used as parameter for other templates, build to function for a variety of calling instances, etc. .

and move this Template:Esoteric → Template:IntricateWhat has changed?
*The name of the template (to which several contributor's had formulated objections), the new name is quite appropriate (follow hereunder the old and new link in the first sentence of the template)
*"complicated or esoteric" → "intricate"
*accepts single argument (newly inserted: a blank followed with ) for optional text line e.g. to warn about specific techniques and pitt-falls [the nowrap immediately followed by pre-existing  puts a short note on wider screen behind the opening sentence, else puts it on a separate new line]
*The text of the actual template became more straightforward and clear, the text of the accompaning messagebox now gives useful indications for when to use the template; compare both shown in section #Move with current template and its messagebox.
*For some really intricate templates or some large ones that require modifications often, a permanent dedicated sandbox is available as subpage "/Test sandbox" of such templates (e.g. Template:Infobox Country/Test sandbox. Now, the Template:Intricate checks for its existence and if so mentions and links to it, else (as before) it shows and links to the general template sandbox. 
*The redundant final sentence "This template is for templates with esoteric syntax." [or now "intricate syntax."] is dropped, because the accompaning messagebox states this, now more than ever, much clearer.
You can copy the new template code straight from the readable talk page here (there are no   or  in the code).Kind regards. — SomeHuman 21 Mar2007 00:21 (UTC)
: Cbrown1023 talk 20:27, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the generic help page is right; the only people likely to click the link are people who don't know what any sort of parser function is. CMummert · talk 23:20, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. It's for "ooh, this is cool stuff, where do I learn more?" people. Who should be encouraged. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 00:26, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Replace and move

message: Shouldn't the link be to ParserFunctions, not Parser functions, since most pages are actually using that extension, and not just generic parser code? Any thoughts? --MZMcBride 04:14, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the generic help page is right; the only people likely to click the link are people who don't know what any sort of parser function is. CMummert · talk 23:20, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. It's for "ooh, this is cool stuff, where do I learn more?" people. Who should be encouraged. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 00:26, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Minor edit?

message: Please remove both commas in the last sentence of the template.  They are incorrectly used.  Reywas92Talk 02:44, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Reworded. Harryboyles 05:45, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please remove commas 

message: wuu:Template:Esoteric
zh-classical:Template:Esoteric
zh-yue:Template:祕技
-✉Hello World! 16:51, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Done. ^demon[omg plz] 22:30, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Please add interwiki

message: With my browser and settings, the text is squashed vertically, and the last line gets its feet cut off. This seems to be due to the line-height:11pt; and 12pt clauses in the DIV tags. I'm not sure what their purpose is; are they necessary? Thanks, Tualha (Talk) 13:09, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Personally, I would be glad to remove all the special CSS font and line formatting, and let the user's defaults come through. — Carl (CBM · talk) 22:29, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: From a quick preview the line-height parameters seem to make no difference. If people are happy for me to change, I'll take them out now. I agree with Carl - if you're going to set the font to 95%, there may be no point in changing it at all, but it looks OK slightly smaller IMO. ck lostsword•T•C 22:54, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: 0.9/0.95em instead of percent? ck lostsword•T•C 22:57, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The argument for 95% is that it makes the font visibly smaller in IE, apparently. I have always thought it is a hack. — Carl (CBM · talk) 00:32, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: True, good point. Ah well, I'll just remove the lineheights for now. ck lostsword•T•C 07:19, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks good now. Thank you. Tualha (Talk) 15:46, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

text:  Done - glad it worked :) ck lostsword•T•C 15:56, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Layout problem 2 

message: I feel that this template needlessly discourages would-be editors from getting stuck in.
Surely the degree of complexity should be reasonably obvious by looking at the source code?
Anyone that meddles and breaks things can easily undo their edits using the history function.
It'd be a shame if someone with the potential to be a great contributor to the template namespace was scared off from making edits by this tag.
There must be a good reason for this template's existence - could someone elucidate me?
Thanks!! Verisimilus T 16:19, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is this template helpful? 

message: To encourage editors to get stuck in, I feel we ought to change the template something along the lines of the following:
	This template employs intricate features of template syntax. You are encouraged to familiarise yourself with its setup and parser functions before editing the template.  If your edit causes unexpected problems, please undo it quickly, as this template may appear on a large number of pages.Remember that you can conduct experiments, and should test all improvements, in either the  or your user space before changing anything here.
Verisimilus T 15:46, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Cheers. --MZMcBride 20:41, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed rewording

message: ; Perceived problem
The current code only detects the possible existence of a subpage named  (something of a pleonasm, BTW). But many templates use a different name, especially the semi-official  (lowercase) as per Wikipedia:Template test cases, also stored at :Category:Template sandboxes.
; Proposed solution
Backwards-compatible code that extends the detection to many possible names for the local sandbox. The code is easy to maintain or extend if needed, and has been tested. The core change is, instead of this snippet:
To have this one:
 Any experiments should be conducted and all improvements tested in either the  or your user space before changing anything here.'''
; Main changes
* Will detect 3 different common names for a local sandbox, with uppercase or lowercase initial (it matters for subpages) ; the standard "/sandbox" is detected first on purpose, but the previous "/Test sandbox" is still there.
* Will display a more concise label for the link to the available sandbox, such as  (instead of formerly longer ).
* The boldface opened at the start of the sentence is now closed at its end, just for proper HTML container
* The careful indentation and alignement doesn't change the output, but makes this part of the code much more readable/editable, and adding new names can be done by mere cut-n-paste because each line of the cascading if or switch has been normalized to the same format.
* (There are a few more minor changes not seen above, not to the wording but to the source format and the noinclude section such as adding the conditional , see diffs below.)
; Testcases and cut-n-paste-ready source
* Old and new versions side-by-side live at Template:Intricate template/testcases
* The full changes from the current template to the proposed one can be seen (in four steps from "split para ..." to "removed padding...") in the diffs from the local sandbox history
* The full source that can be cut-n-pasted over the current template is this sandbox revision source
— Komusou talk @ 23:58, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Cheers. --MZMcBride 00:57, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Code for detecting standard /sandbox and variants 

message: How about wikifying the text "your user space" in the template? For instance by making it a clickable link like this: 
your user space
Or is that overkill?
--David Göthberg 10:59, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've integrated it to my code suggestion below. — Komusou talk @ 05:35, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikify "your user space" 

message: I just updated this template to use the  "other pages message box meta-template". I am pretty sure the  should be of yellow minor-warning type, not orange major-warning type. But I am not sure which icon to use apart from that the icon should be yellow. These are the icons that I am thinking of:
* The default one doesn't really look like a warning:  :Image:Imbox_style.png 
* This one is a bit strong I think:  :Image:Ambox warning yellow.svg 
* A yellow version of this one might be nice?  :Image:Imbox content.png
What do you people think?
--David Göthberg (talk) 23:35, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Seeing as this style of icon is in use quite a lot on Wikipedia, I suggest using this yellow version, although I really don't mind the current one. 
--.:Alex:. 15:00, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ombox and icon 

message: "You are encouraged to familiarise yourself with its setup and parser functions before editing the template" is a bit odd in the grammar department.  as well as the fact that it uses the turgid British 'familiarise' rather than the hip, dynamic American 'familiarize' - I mean, when are you Brits going to learn English?    What do you all think about "You should review the use of parser functions and study the code carefully before editing this template" instead?  --Ludwigs2 19:34, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  mild rewording request... 

message: Can an admin please change the link parser functions to parser functions to prevent a redirect? Thanks. —MC10 (T•C•GB•L) 01:07, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 15:25, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Parser functions link 

message: I've nominated this unnecessary template for deletion; please add:
:
to the template. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:24, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Done --Redrose64 (talk) 23:09, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  TfD notification 

message: Please wrap the TfD tag in noinclude tags. It's currently categorizing every page it appears on for deletion.
Jackmcbarn (talk) 04:25, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 05:33, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protected edit request on 7 March 2014 

message: Make the text the default size instead of smaller. See the proposed change at Template:Intricate template. —Eli355 ( talk•contribs ) 18:49, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: DoneCabayi (talk) 19:42, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks —Eli355 ( talk•contribs ) 19:57, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Template-protected edit request on 30 September 2018 

message: Change the spelling from -ise to -ize, that's it. NotCory (talk) 11:53, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: See MOS:RETAIN Galobtter (pingó mió) 12:17, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Template-protected edit request on 15 October 2018 

message: This template clutters up a lot of documentation pages with information most readers of the documentation page doesn't actually need. Conveying the information to the people actually editing the page can be done through an edit notice system similar to how :Category:Living people add . This wouldn't require any modifications of existing transclusions, but would require an addition to MediaWiki:Common.js which is how the BLP notice works. I have notified WP:WPT of this discussion to get some more input. ‑‑Trialpears (talk) 10:59, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll have to think more about your proposal, but as a starting point (regardless of the outcome here) it should be removed from pages like , since it's template-protected and so the only people editing it already know that it contains "complex code". Primefac (talk) 12:27, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Fully agree, that wasn't the opinion at the TfD though. I would gladly remove it from the 120 (search) template protected pages. I don't think it adds anything in other cases either, but clearly there are people who do, making this a good compromise. ‑‑Trialpears (talk) 14:24, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I would argue that it does add value to semiprot or unprotected templates, but it's definitely redundant on TPE or higher pages. Primefac (talk) 17:57, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Doing an AWB run removing it from template protected pages right now. There should be just over 100 of them. --Trialpears (talk) 22:19, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Change to editnotice? 

message: Can we display "Wikt:familiarize" instead of "Wikt:familiarise"? The former is acceptable to Brits but North Americans are not used to the latter. Cheers, Facts707 (talk) 11:33, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Is there anyone who would see either word and not know what it means? Primefac (talk) 13:01, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  "familiarize" vs. "familiarise"