Talk:HMS Thunder Child

message: All information I have added to this article is based on Wells's novel, except for the statistics in the ship-box, which are those of Polyphemus.  I see that 211.11.155.6 has added to that base, including upgrading Thunder Child's armament and giving her a motto.  On what are those additions based? ➥the Epopt 4 July 2005 14:38 (UTC)
:I have received no reply in the two weeks since I asked the above question, so I have removed the additions. ➥the Epopt 15:19, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Basis for presumptions 

message: The online text of Well’s novel regarding Thunder Child can be found here: http://www.online-literature.com/view.php/warworlds/17 
Here is his initial description:
“About a couple of miles out lay an ironclad, very low in the water, almost, to my brother's perception, like a water- logged ship. This was the ram THUNDER CHILD.”
I don’t see anywhere a mention of a torpedo ram specifically, only the two terms “ram” and “Ironclad”; both rather generic considering the period. Ships armed with rams were not exactly uncommon, ram tactics were even used by battleships in WW1. As such I find the reference to Polyphemus a little specific and the whole "description" section rather interpretive. 
This Japanese website shows clear documentation of a number of ram equipped ships from the period: http://www.geocities.jp/ironclad_tripod/Photoalbum/album05.htm
I feel it's appropriate to use Well's text in the article since it is copyright free. And besides, even if it were still within copyright, under the rules of copyright the use of an excerpt for descriptive purposes within an article is still allowable.OzoneO 17:36, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A few paragraphs after your quote is the line: "It was the torpedo ram, Thunder Child, steaming headlong, coming to the rescue of the threatened shipping." ➥the Epopt 17:37, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Granted. And yet there is still the term "ironclad" and the efficaciousness of her guns. Therefore I made subtle changes to the text to reflect Well’s creative ambiguity, but did not remove references to the Polyphemus. OzoneO 17:58, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Description problems 

message: How does the "Pendragon version" of the story even counts? Should not be even mentioned.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.134.107.106 (talk) 23:55, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pendragon movie 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: "There's little doubt that Thunder Child was meant to be a battleship and Wells' use of the term "torpedo ram" was merely referring to the ram bows common in Victorian warships of the time."
Really?
Actually, a lot of doubt about that. The rest of the Channel Fleet are described as "standing out to sea" (that's the line of "Ironclads" of the Channel Fleet, so if you want a generalisation on Wells' part, the one in use is "ironclad" as a general term for warships), while the Thunder Child is close in to the Essex coast, which is notoriously shallow. This is not a battleship of the day - for such a ship would have had a draught of 25 feet or more.
Also, the assumption that ram bowed warships were a source of collective generalisation by the public at the time is nonsensical, for the ram bow had been the standard form for a warship's bow since the mid-1860s and was both commonplace and unexceptional in the 1890s. Is this a case of assuming that the ancestors knew less?
Furthermore, the term 'torpedo ram' was applied to several different classes of warship. The most popular use of the term in the late 1880s and early 1890s was in regard to the Elswick cruisers in Italian and Austrian service (the Panther and Giovanni Bausan types), both of which featured very powerful engines (and two funnels), long low profiles ("like a waterlogged ship" to quote Wells' text), along with the curved plough-like ram bow and potent enough guns to capably tackle large targets (4.7" to 10" dependent on design) - and were described by the respective navies and in published periodicals as torpedo ram cruisers.
So yes, there remains very much doubt as to what Wells meant to describe and one should not be leaning on familiarity with the album cover art of Jeff Wayne's Musical Version in order to understand the mindset and technical knowledge of a 19thC author & intellectual.
That's why that line's been deleted. 2A00:23C7:3119:AD01:2C4B:9264:9A25:F5A3 (talk) 16:48, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Assumptions 

message: IIRC a supporting character in the (awful) comic Scarlet Traces was a survivor of the Thunderchild, and the ship's sinking was featured in the prequel/webcomic adaptation of the book the same team did. Will dig around for sources... BoomboxTestarossa (talk) 12:31, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scarlet Traces