Talk:Keyser Söze

message: In the article it mentions only two usages of the phrase, one being satanic the other being a fabrication of another villain, but I have quite frequently seen it used in another sense: To coalesce a story using background objects.
An example of this is in American Dad, where Roger at one point says he "Keyser Soze'd [a] name using [Stan's] coffee cup". Tetris11 (talk) 11:54, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Phrase Usage

message: Its not confirmed that Spacey was indeed Soze and there is even some dispute by the actors in the film as to who he is.  The director I believe also mentioned that he wasn't neccessarily Soze.
There is one thing the movie is clear about - the entire story is a LIE. Any attempt to try to pull any facts out of it is silly because we know that EVERYTHING we know is Verbal's version of events, and since we pretty sure VERBAL does not exist... it would make sense that neither do ANY facts. 
The devil's biggest trick is to make the world think he doesn't exist. This story's biggest trick is to make you think ANY of it actually took place.
:No. The whole film was the devils trick. The 'devil' sat right there infront of the police and just let him walk away, with immunity. 100% Soze. We know that there might be a Soze because of the one surviving criminal who sketched the appearance of Soze.
-G  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.230.81.124 (talk) 00:59, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That's not true.  The surviving criminal describes the man he saw on the boat, but that is not necessarily Keyser Soze.  There is no evidence that Verbal is Soze.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.33.176.3 (talk) 20:13, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

text: Look... There is no PROOF in the film that Kint is Soze. He MIGHT WELL be. But if we go only on the evidence WITHIN the film (as we should) - then concluding outright that Kint to Soze is similar to confusing the notions of "author" and "narrator". BigSteve (talk) 23:40, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: To all these people who claim there's no PROOF Kint is Soze: there's a single scene in the move which lasts about 0.3 seconds showing Kint killing Dean Keaton. So Keyser Soze is 100% Verbal Kint, there's not even an iota of doubt about it. Regarding the actors who claim they're are not sure if Soze was Kint, they're are just doing so to sauce-up the plot even further. Thanks!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.41.210.147 (talk) 23:20, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting, I'm going to upload that scene.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Darwish7 (talk • contribs) 17:06, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who is Keyser Soze 

message: Just a thought - this article states Soze's attorney was called Kobayashi but the revelatory sequence at the end makes it clear that "Kobayashi" was just a name that Kint read on the bottom of Agent Kujan's coffee cup so do we really know what the Pete Postlethwaite character was actually called? Richard Barlow 15:45, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I guess not --Darwish7 (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 17:10, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kobayashi 

message: Contrary to the view stated here, there are real "facts" that can be obtained from the movie.  For example the opening and closing scenes.  The assasination, the interrogation and others.  From scrict analysis of this, it is entirely possible to theorise that kobayashi was in fact the master mind and verbal was sent to do his work.  In fact there are quotes that allude to this in the movie.  Something like, "You think you can catch Keyser Soze? You think a guy like that comes this close to getting fingered and sticks his head out? If he comes up for anything, it will be to get rid of me.", "He (Keaton) wasn't behind anything. It was the lawyer.", "We were there to buy a man, you simple boy. A witness. I don't know his name. A witness who knew the Devil.", " Keyser Soze - or whatever you want to call him - knows where I am right now.  He's got the front burner under' your ass to let me go so he can scoop me up ten minutes later.", "This guy (Verbal) is protected - From up on high by the prince of fucking darkness." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.151.14.101 (talk • contribs).
:: Citing quotes from the film is just Original Research. You need to find reliable sources for other people presenting this idea if you want to include it in wikipedia. Wibbble 12:25, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Facts 

message: I've given this article an adequate lead that actually discusses all of the major points of the article as per Wikipedia:Lead section. The remainder of the article is going to need major cleanup, however - the article is currently clearly structured to withhold the fact that Verbal is Soze until as far into the article. as possible. This is not good encyclopedia writing. Phil Sandifer 13:44, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Cleaning up this article

message: I don't know if this would be worth mentioning in the "cultural impact" section, but in response to debates surrounding supposed "spoilers" regarding the seventh and final Harry Potter book (just hours to go, nooch), some folks on various forums have started to use the satirical phrase "Snape is Keyser Söze" (example).  Even if it isn't worth mentioning in the article, I thought some of the people who follow this talk page might get a kick out if it. - Ugliness Man 08:10, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  lulz 

message: I believe the IPA pronunciation is wrong. Not only is "ö" pronounced with a /ø/ sound rather than /o/ in both Turkish and Hungarian, you can actually hear Hungarian characters in the film pronouncing "Söze" with an /ø/ sound. American English doesn't define the pronunciation of non-English names. JIP | Talk 17:52, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation 

message: The latest change to this article states that Verbal Kint made Keyser Söze up. I don't think this is true. There is at least one source who has heard of Keyser Söze from someone other than Verbal Kint, and that's the police officer who faxes the picture to Kujan. I still believe in the most common interpretation, that Verbal Kint is Keyser Söze. JIP | Talk 19:46, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kint made Söze up? 

message: Where was 'Kobayashi' from?  The only known source in the film which indicates this is 'Redfoot' who calls him a limey, which means that he is British. But depite Postlewaithe being a Brit, his accent in the film is certainly not. His name suggest he is Japanese and his accent has an Eastern tinge to it - a mix of Oriental and Indian. In the article, someone has stated his nationality as Pakistani - someone is surely having a laugh. There's no proof whatsoever to suggest he is Pakistani. 80.195.166.92 (talk) 16:05, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kobayashi's Nationality 

message: In the introduction, it's stated that
 Söze is an underworld kingpin [...]
I'm not a native speaker, so I searched around a bit, and found everything - but no useful explanation of that word. In most dictionaries, it seems to be just a technical term for some mechanical things. The only helpful definition of the word was in Wiktionary - which is linked heavily indirect: Mark the word "kingpin", search with google, go to Wikipedia, click through on "there is an article on Wiktionary" - this link can break at any node. My suggestion: Explain the word, use another word or link the word (to wiktionary, because Wikipedia won't really help you on this one). Regards,  -- 80.136.76.11 (talk) 06:35, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wording: "Kingpin" 

message: There is that old farytale called "The emperor's new pants". As far as I can remember from my childhood, It's about two merry conmen, who trick an emperor into beliving they can taylor clothes, wich only the smart people can see. They take the emperors money, and present him with non-existent clothery. The emperor -embarrased that he can't see the clothes- poses as if he'd see them, and goes out in public naked, where his folk begins to laugh that the "Emnperor has no pants on"
Now, in German "The pants of the Emperor" translate to "Der Kaisers Hose", wich is pronounced almost exactly as "Keyser Söze". 
Think of it: 
- Invisibility as by Verbal
- Conmen involved
- The conned protagonist doesn't see the plot untill the catharsis.
What's your opinion? Can the name be a pun on this story?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.99.84.91 (talk) 15:34, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: "Hose" is pronounced with an /o/ sound, while "Söze" is pronounced with an /ø/ sound. I am sure native English speakers will be unaware of, and most likely unconcerned with, this, but it is an important matter to speakers of any other language. JIP | Talk 20:15, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

text: Actually, in one of the featurettes on the DVD, they explain how they came up with the name.  It was originally named after one of their friends who worked at a law firm ("Keyser Sunim", or something like that) but he was worried it might hurt his practice, being named as a criminal who murdered his family.  So they found a Turkish Dictionary, and chose Söze, which in Turkish means "Talks to much."  Since Keyser (Kaiser) means "King" in German (well, "Emperor", but in the featurette they said King), the name was literally (in German/Turkish) "King Talks Too Much", which fit Verbal's character. VegJed (talk) 03:37, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

text: However, Des Kaisers Hose works (it's archaic, but so is the story, which is actually named Des Kaisers neue Kleider). Still don't think it's a reference though, as the DVD commentary shows.87.78.3.205 (talk) 17:43, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin of the name? 

message: The swedish movie Small Sussie (Smala Sussie) has a reference to Keyzer Söze. The police man explains that he has gotten a lot of information about criminals, and therefore asks the girl if she knows anything about a Keyzer Söze or Tony Montana. When she says no, he says "no... they are not in any registries."
Maybe this reference should be added.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.16.204.132 (talk) 22:03, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Small Sussie 

message: Hi there. I read this line in the article : "The French word "sosie" (pronounced sozy) means a person's double, or someone who closely resembles another person."
As a native french speaker, I struggle to see any relevance in this statement (in the context of the article). The word "sosie" comes from the name of a character in Plaute's play Amphitryon whose appearance is used by the god Mercury. Same thing in Molière's rewriting of the play. This gives to this word the meaning of "someone having the exact same appearance as someone else". The word has been used long before the movie, so I really can't see any relevance to the statement in the article. I thus allow myself to remove it. --Hregrin (talk) 07:42, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  About the "sosie" reference 

message: In the 2010 A Team film, Jessica Biel's character is called Charissa Sosa. Her character is neither an invisible agent, nor is does she pretend to be something she is not. Any idea why she is called that? The film uses Annabelle Smith as a spoken clue to Hannibal Smith at one point in the film so the writer must have been well aware of phonetic links. 
St3f (talk) 07:59, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  The A Team 

message: I added a bunch of citations.  It wasn't really very difficult, but it was time consuming.  The prose isn't really my best work, but it gets the job done.  Especially in the "top ten" dump of citations, the sentences are a bit choppy and repetitive.  My first draft was even worse in this regard, but I quickly tired of trying to beautify it.  If nobody else does, I'll probably get around to rewriting it.  However, what I'd rather do is rewrite the first half of this page.  For one thing, it's split into two sections for no apparent reason.  Looking over the history of the page, it seems like this was originally done to conceal spoilers.  The film's plot is awkwardly split between these two sections, alternating between in-universe writing and commentary.  I propose we combine the two sections, remove the in-universe writing, and reduce the word count.  As it stands, there's ~750 words split between these two sections, which is more than most films get (WP:FILMPLOT recommends between 400-700 for an entire plot summary). 
Oh yeah, I also added a minor "in popular culture" note about a ska band named after the character.  I don't care if anyone removes it.  I just threw it in for completeness when it came up in my searches.  I tried to find better examples, but nobody really wants to talk about the cultural impact of The Usual Suspects/Keyser Soze, even though they invoke the name constantly.  Since I couldn't find any discussions, I tagged an assertion of such importance as needing a citation.  The alternative was to individually cite multiple examples of these happening, and I really didn't want to make another boring citation dump. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 22:18, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: If there's no opposition, then I'll combine the two sections tomorrow.  I figure a week is long enough for people to raise an objection. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 15:04, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:   It's still longer than I'd like, but I'm too tired of editing this article to care.  I've added ~25 citations, doubled the length of the page (which is admittedly due to using citation templates), and cleaned up most of the obvious problems.  I think I'm finished for now. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 02:32, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations cited and proposal proposed. 

message: After fleshing out the lead a bit and adding some more sources, I think this article might be ready to be nominated for GA.  Is there anything major missing? NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 19:36, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA nomination? 

message: Does the lede need to be more explicit about the Kint/Söze reveal? There's nothing that says how the film reveals Kint to be Söze, so (for a reader who hasn't read the infobox caption) "Singer has said he believes Kint and Söze are the same person" comes out of nowhere. --McGeddon (talk) 17:33, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a good point. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 18:15, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  I made it a bit more explicit, but I think the wording might be a little awkward. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 18:48, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  Seems fine to me. Is "an alias of Keyser Söze" a bit strong, for the infobox, since we don't actually say this objectively anywhere else? --McGeddon (talk) 18:51, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  I never had a problem with it.  It seems the only way to describe the image.  If we don't say this, it's too confusing; how else can we explain why we're showing a picture of Verbal Kint in an article about Keyser Soze?  It's verifiable, even if it's not explicitly sourced: , , .  The last source, from Complex, is probably the most flatly explicit of them.  If a source is determined to be necessary, that's probably the one I would choose. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 19:35, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: "Kint is an alias of Soze" just seems bluntly at odds with the nuanced perspective that the article presently takes: that the "filmmakers have preferred to leave the character's nature to viewer interpretation", that the director has a belief but we don't know the writer's, and that a review has discussed the ambiguity of "whether he is Kint pretending to be Söze or the reverse". --McGeddon (talk) 12:22, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  If you can think of a better caption, we could use that.  Or I guess we could just call him "Verbal Kint" and have people read the lead to understand the context.  That seems less than ideal to me, but I guess it's workable. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 20:14, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  "Kevin Spacey's character Roger "Verbal" Kint is identified as Söze in a police sketch" would be closer to the lede text. --McGeddon (talk) 16:05, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

text: Just the caption. The "believes Kint and Söze are the same person" quote seems important to clarify that the film's plot might be "Söze is arrested and lies about his identity" rather than "Kint is arrested and invents Söze as a character", but it's been a very long time since I've seen the film. --McGeddon (talk) 16:39, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

text: Have gone ahead and changed the infobox caption to "Kevin Spacey's character Roger "Verbal" Kint is identified as Söze in a police sketch". --McGeddon (talk) 11:45, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  Seems fine to me. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 23:01, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unclear lede summary 

message: The infobox refers to Söze as Turkish, but the movie never clearly says so. Kint says Söze is "Supposed to be Turkish, some say his father is German". That's the only reference to Söze's nationality in the movie - uncertain at best.
Also, the movie doesn't say Söze started his "career" in his "native Turkey", as the article says. Tdunsky (talk) 15:16, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I was actually thinking about this exact issue the other day – I've added a note that his nationality is only alleged. --Jasca Ducato (talk | contributions) 15:37, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Söze's nationality 

message: Keyser (Kaiser) Söze was portrayed by actors of Western origins, not Turkish. The character's background is intentionally mysterious and not explicitly defined in the movie. The name "Keyser" is not of Turkish origin and does not have any meaning in the Turkish language. Obviously being of mixed German and Turkish ancestry. Allo002 (talk) 20:12, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  New claims about Söze's origins