Talk:Kurdistan/Archive 3

message: #Useless sections: Folowing sections are definately misplaced, the information prsented does not explain the geo cultural region. "The Shivan Qaderi incident" "Anfal Campaign" "The case of Leyla Zana"
#Lead: Definately too long
#External links: This section cantains links that does not explain the region "Kurdistan", this article exists to explain "Kurdistan" not every random referance to "Kurdistan" should be an external link. 
--Cool CatTalk|@ 20:24, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree with User:Cool Cat that there is too much information or too many perspectives represented in this article. Feel free to add more if you feel something has been omitted och neglected, but pluease do not go on eradication rampages. If there are specific sentences that you think is wrong or unbalanced, just correct that single bit and explain why you did it. Deleting entire paragraphs is not the way to go. --Big Adamsky 21:43, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia is not a blog. This article has no encyclopedic value if it concists of "information" that is not even relevant to the topic. We do not have an entier paragraph on Martin Luther King junior in North America. If this article exists to explain a region information should be strictly limited to that. I am not suggesting the information goes to hell but entier paragraphs need to be migrated elsewhere. --Cool CatTalk|@ 16:05, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Cleanup tasks

message: ===Forced Relocations in Turkey===
Security forces in Turkey forcibly displaced Kurdish rural communities during the 1980s and 1990s in order to combat the Kurdish Workers’ Party (PKK) insurgency. By the mid-1990s, more than 3,000 villages had been virtually wiped from the map, and, according to official figures, 378,335 Kurdish villagers had been displaced and left homeless.(see , and  .
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:Why is this relevant to this article? --Cool CatTalk|@ 20:44, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Discussed below --Cool CatTalk|@ 19:18, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Why is this relevant to this article? --Cool CatTalk|@ 20:44, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

text: I do not believe what happened to Mrs. Zana was just, however I also know in the US American Gov executed two innocent people for being Soviet spies, a side product of "Communist Paranoia". The only reason I make this referance is to point out that the two individuals that got executed do not appear on North America and hence its inaproporate for Mrs. Zana to be on this article, however a "See also" referance in Kurdish people should work. (This article is not about Kurds but of a geographic region) --Cool CatTalk|@ 19:17, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Why is this relevant to this article? --Cool CatTalk|@ 11:57, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

text: I do not see the relevance of PKK to this article, PKK has its own artilce, the material should be a minor referance and someting like . --Cool CatTalk|@ 19:13, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Why is this relevant to this article? --Cool CatTalk|@ 20:44, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Chemical Ali has international recognition of being a war-crimial (I thnk) the incident is a major one and should have a detailed article regarding the incident but it really does not fit to this article. Disagrements? --Cool CatTalk|@ 19:12, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Why is this relevant to this article? --Cool CatTalk|@ 20:44, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

text: This is a brutal incident, no doubt. It would belong to a wiki-news article written on july. It really is a minor incident that doesn't need to be on a wikipedia article in my view. Disagrements? --Cool CatTalk|@ 19:10, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

text: If this page is being treated as every other Wiki article for nations, regions, countries and areas of population, notable/specific news events would not usually be included. This could be moved to a separate article doktorb 08:14, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Sections moved

message: Security forces in Turkey forcibly displaced Kurdish rural communities during the 1980s and 1990s in order to combat the Kurdish Workers’ Party (PKK) insurgency. By the mid-1990s, more than 3,000 villages had been virtually wiped from the map, and, according to official figures, 378,335 Kurdish villagers had been displaced and left homeless.(see , and  .
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:Why is this relevant to this article? --Cool CatTalk|@ 20:44, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Discussed below --Cool CatTalk|@ 19:18, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Forced Relocations in Turkey

message: In 1994 Leyla Zana--who, three years prior, had been the first Kurdish woman elected to the Turkish parliament--was sentenced to 15 years for "separatist speech". At her inauguration as an MP, she reportedly identified herself as a Kurd. Amnesty International reported "She took the oath of loyalty in Turkish, as required by law, then added in Kurdish, 'I shall struggle so that the Kurdish and Turkish peoples may live together in a democratic framework.' Parliament erupted with shouts of 'Separatist', 'Terrorist', and 'Arrest her'". In 1994, after she and three other Kurdish MPs (Hatip Dicle, Orhan Dogan and Selim Sadak) joined the newly formed Democracy Party, which was quickly banned by the authorities, her immunity was lifted, and she and the other three were arrested. They were accused of treason and promptly jailed. ,. She was recogized as a "Prisoner of Conscience" by Amnesty International. When she was awarded the European Parliament’s Sakharov Prize in 1995, she had been jailed for one year of a 15-year sentence. In 2002, a movie named The Back of the World  examined her case. In 2004, after she had spent 9 years in prison, the European Court of Human Rights found shortcomings in her 1994 trial. Under pressure from the European Union , she was allowed to collect her Sakharov prize in 2004, while awaiting a new retrial. , , ,,
While in prison she published a book titled Writings from Prison
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:Why is this relevant to this article? --Cool CatTalk|@ 20:44, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not believe what happened to Mrs. Zana was just, however I also know in the US American Gov executed two innocent people for being Soviet spies, a side product of "Communist Paranoia". The only reason I make this referance is to point out that the two individuals that got executed do not appear on North America and hence its inaproporate for Mrs. Zana to be on this article, however a "See also" referance in Kurdish people should work. (This article is not about Kurds but of a geographic region) --Cool CatTalk|@ 19:17, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: The case of Leyla Zana

message: In 1999, a joint operation by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), the Turkish National Intelligence Agency (MIT), and the Israeli Institute for Intelligence and Special Tasks Agency (Mossad) located and arrested the leader of the Kurdish paramilitary group PKK, Abdullah Ocalan, in Kenya. The Turkish Intelligence Agency later declared that he was staying in the Greek embassy in Nairobi with a Greek Cypriot passport, issued in Greece. The Greek bureaucrats responsible were forced to resign, and Abdullah 'Apo' Ocalan was tried and sentenced to death, later commuted to life imprisonment in the island of Imrali.  This is the only proven case of Western assistance to the PKK.  Earlier, PKK had support from Syria, Iran and various Kurdish clans in Iraq. Ocalan was originally based in Syria but was forced to leave in late 1998 following Turkey's deployment of large numbers of troops on the Syrian border.  Remnants of the PKK are based in Northern Iraq who from time to time cross the mountains border into Turkey for attacks.
PKK/KADEK has been described as a terrorist group by the United States since 1997 and more recently in 2004 by the European Union. 
Meanwhile over the last decade, to comply with the European Union's standards to start membership accession talks, the Turkish Government has lifted almost all the bans on Kurdish speech, press, visual/audio production, and education, and also started broadcasting Kurdish language programs in the government TV and radio channels. This, however, did not stop the PKK from breaking its ceasefire of 1999 later in 2001 and in 2005. The PKK has come under pressure fom Kurdish leaders recently to end its campaign, following overtures from Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan.
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:Why is this relevant to this article? --Cool CatTalk|@ 11:57, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not see the relevance of PKK to this article, PKK has its own artilce, the material should be a minor referance and someting like . --Cool CatTalk|@ 19:13, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Arrest of Ocalan

message: Anfal--"the Spoils"(of War)--is the name of the eighth sura of the Koran. It is the name of a operation carried out against Kurds from March 291987 until April 231989, by the former Iraqi regime under command of Ali Hassan al-Majid (also known as "Chemical Ali"). It was characterized by the following gross violations of human rights:
# Mass summary executions and mass disappearance of many tens of thousands of non-combatants, including large numbers of women and children, and sometimes the entire population of villages; 
# The widespread use of chemical weapons, including mustard gas and the nerve agent GB, or Sarin, against the town of Halabja as well as dozens of Kurdish villages; 
# The wholesale destruction of some 2,000 villages, which are described in government documents as having been "burned," "destroyed," "demolished" and "purified," as well as at least a dozen larger towns and administrative centers (nahyas and qadhas);  
# By the most conservative estimates, 50,000 rural Kurds died during Anfal. 
# Army engineers destroyed the large Kurdish town of Qala Dizeh (population 70,000).  
( by the Human Rights Watch)
Since the Persian Gulf War of 1991, the Kurdistan Democratic Party under the leadership of Massoud Barzani, and the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan under the leadership of Jalal Talabani have controlled much of Southern Kurdistan. The capital of the Kurdistan Autonomous Region is Arbil (also known as Hewlêr in Kurdish), although the main Kurdish parties have indicated their preference for Kirkuk as the capital of an eventual Kurdish state. The latter city is currently hotly contested by Kurdish, Arab and Turkmen factions, and there is a strong and vocal opposition of Turkey to permanent Kurdish control of the city.
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:Why is this relevant to this article? --Cool CatTalk|@ 20:44, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Chemical Ali has international recognition of being a war-crimial (I thnk) the incident is a major one and should have a detailed article regarding the incident but it really does not fit to this article. Disagrements? --Cool CatTalk|@ 19:12, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Anfal Campaign

message: On July 9 2005, a Kurdish opposition activist, Shivan Qaderi  (a.k.a Shwane Qadri or Sayed Kamal Astam) and two other Kurdish men were shot by Iranian security forces in Mahabad. According to witnesses, the security forces then tied Qaderi's body to a Toyata jeep and dragged it through the streets. Iranian authorities confirmed that Qaderi, "who was on the run and wanted by the judiciary", was shot and killed while allegedly evading arrest.
For the next six weeks, riots and protests erupted in Kurdish towns and villages throughout Eastern Kurdistan such as Mahabad, Sinne (Sanandaj), Sardasht, Piranshahr (Xanê), Oshnavieh (Şino), Baneh, Bokan and Saqiz  (and even inspiring protests in southwestern Iran and in Baluchistan in eastern Iran) with scores killed and injured, and an untold number arrested without charge. The Iranian authorities also shut down several major Kurdish newspapers arresting reporters and editors.
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:Why is this relevant to this article? --Cool CatTalk|@ 20:44, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a brutal incident, no doubt. It would belong to a wiki-news article written on july. It really is a minor incident that doesn't need to be on a wikipedia article in my view. Disagrements? --Cool CatTalk|@ 19:10, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

text: If this page is being treated as every other Wiki article for nations, regions, countries and areas of population, notable/specific news events would not usually be included. This could be moved to a separate article doktorb 08:14, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: The Shivan Qaderi incident

message: If all the deleted material by Cool Cat were irrelevant, then he/she should have removed "Ocalan" section too. Obviously, Cool Cat has a strong POV on this article. Heja Helweda 22:27, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I apologise, I missed that one. It wasnt intentional, however do not label me of things. I know I have POV and I am not pushing any given I am only moving material. --Cool CatTalk|@ 12:05, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Removing material that doesn't suit you personal POV can be PoV editing too, Cool Cat, and that is what you are doing yet again. -- Karl Meier 16:22, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I decline to respond to that. You are disrupting my editing experience. Please stop. --Cool CatTalk|@ 18:57, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You followed me to this article, not the other way around, so you got no reason to complain about me being here. Could you please stop stalking me and attacking the articles I am editing with your POV pushing? -- Karl Meier 19:02, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I am not stalking you, thats your profession. --Cool CatTalk|@ 19:19, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I got plenty of diffs that show otherwise. You reverted me for no reason only minutes after I made a small reasonable edit to this article. It's clear that you have failed to end your harrasment against me and Davenbelle. -- Karl Meier 19:23, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Complain to arbcom or someone else, your contribution on this talk page have so far only been complaints of various sorts and personal referances to me. This is being very uncivil. If any admin finds that I am pov pushing in the article they can block me, since I am not blocked you have no basis for your accusation. Why are you monitoring me anyways. You are not supposed to as arbcom established you shouldnt. Arbcom never banned me from this article. --Cool CatTalk|@ 19:26, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I am not monitoring you Cool Cat. Please don't make any false accusations about that. It was you that followed me to this article and not the other way around. Anyway, it's clear that you are POV editing again, despite an ArbCom decision that made it very clear that you shouldn't do that. Also, for the record, please be clear that the ArbCom didn't say that I could not monitor your editing. What the ArbCom decision said was that I was adviced to let others take the lead in monitoring your questionable edits. -- Karl Meier 19:33, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ocalan 

message: Following pictures might offend some visitors!
Viewer discretion is advised!'''
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:Image:resim1.gif :Image:resim2.gif
24 January 1987 Mardin-Midyat / Basyurt Efeler Village in south Eastern Turkey 
11 Innocent civillian people( 7 children, 1 women, 3 men) were murdered by PKK'''
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:Image:resim3.gif  :Image:resim4.gif
07 March 1987 Mardin- Nusaybin / Açikyol Village in south Eastern Turkey 
8 Innocent civillian people( 6 children, 2 women ) were murdered by PKK'''
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:Image:resim27.gif  :Image:resim28.gif
18.July.1993 Van-Bahçesaray Sündüz village in south eastern Turkey 
26 Innocent civillian people(14 children, 8 Women, 4 Men) were murdered by PKK'''
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And thousands of people murdered by PKK. PKK sells narkotic and buys weapon to kill guiltless civils. Is this independence war? Does the baby that in the cradle give them independence. Everybody must be learn their native language but using guns? or killing babies.
:I have removed the images, please focus on the article. Thanks --Cool CatTalk|@ 18:57, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  THE TRUTH ABOUT THE PKK  

message: Hi!
I'm inviting editors to participate in the discussion to move the article 'Syrian Kurdistan' to 'Rojava'. My rationale is: This article is about a region governed by the PYD, which calls the area Rojava. Foreign press also uses this term, for example  (BBC)  (Guardian)  (Independent)  (VICE). Other examples on Wikipedia such as Kosovo (not South Serbia), Catalonia (not Catalonian Spain) or Scotland (not Scottish United Kingdom) indicate this article should be called Rojava as per convention. Thanks Genjix (talk) 19:01, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move for page 'Syrian Kurdistan' to 'Rojava', 18 January 2015 

message: commenting here, will have reliable source later when I have time. Possible sources 
* world post column "President Masoud Barzani of Iraqi Kurdistan has pledged protection for Syrian Kurds from al-Nusra, a terrorist organization, which issued a fatwa calling for the killing of Kurdish women and children" - I think this is RS, will add later
* worldpost "Al-Nusra Front, Syria's Al-Qaeda affiliate, issued a fatwa condoning the killing of Kurdish women and children"
* ITN "A fatwa (edict) has been issued permitting the shedding of the blood of the Kurds and they called from the mosque loudspeakers that the shedding of the Kurdish blood is halal"  
* Vice "al Nusra Front to declare fatwas against all Kurds" also 
* israelnationalnews anti-Kurdish rhetoric has reached fever pitch among Arab Islamists, with some mosques issuing fatwas (religious decrees) encouraging the wholesale slaughter of Kurds
Will add line later-- Aronzak (talk) 03:33, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reliable source for al-nusra fatwa calling for death of kurds in syria 

message: Kurdistan Does not exist and parts of this map is showing my country (turkey) being split. There is a Terrorist group currently murdering people in that region but no country other than Turkey or officially recognised countries. This page is incorrect and offensive as the region shown in South Eastern Turkey is a area where terror group PKK is active and killing Turkish soldiers. Therefore dividing a country that is not divided is incorrect.
2.121.172.222 (talk) 02:11, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Read the article first. The subject of the article exists and is clearly explained. -- haminoon (talk) 02:36, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 22 March 2015 

message: The data about Piranashahr are incorrect. Piranshahr is a small city in eastern Kurdistan,Iran, with a population much less than 100000. Piranshahr is a beautiful city in Kurdistan but there are some other larger and more important cities and issues that must be in this article before Piranshahr.
Thanks
:Hello! I can't find any reliable sources. Do you have any sources? ~ Zirguezi 21:36, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Piranshahr 

message: A move discussion relating to this article is open at Kurdish languages' talk page. Khestwol (talk) 17:58, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move discussion 

message: The initial map is not correct and legal, please replace it for previouse true one and protect the article from vandalism  Bazrangi (talk) 15:23, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Map 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Kurdistan. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080501191513/http://www.kurdistanica.com:80/english/history/articles-his/his-articles-02.html to http://kurdistanica.com/english/history/articles-his/his-articles-02.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
Cheers. —cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 02:41, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I don't want to change it alone, but does this article really need seven citations for the ancient name in paragraph 1, of which six are never used anywhere else? 2602:306:32E1:92F0:E81F:4DC0:1246:6C52 (talk) 03:17, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Do they need to be used somewhere else in the article? As long as they have legitimate sources they should stay there I think ~ Zirguezi 20:45, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Ancient name

message: I am not a registered user and therefore cannot edit, so I request somebody to correct a few typos in the beginning. It says something like "the Iraqi kurd becom autom and they fight the ISIS" It seems as if somebody did this purposely.2601:CF:8100:8250:B9A2:10D:1D56:4C27 (talk) 20:49, 1 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see this. Has this been changed yet? ~ Zirguezi 20:47, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some typos 

message: Ezidxan shouldn't redirect here - it should be its own entry.  Ezidxan is a land for Yezidis specifically, whether they are or are not included as ethnic Kurds.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Steveodinkirk (talk • contribs) 13:43, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Came here too to report this. Does anyone know how to edit redirecting links?--Ermanarich (talk) 17:29, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ezidxan 

message: Can someone advise as to whether the Wikiproject Kurdistan banner belongs on the main page or on the talk page. A bot removed it from the main page and said it belongs on the talk page, but I'm sure I have seen many articles with project banners on their main page.Jwslubbock (talk) 18:37, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: WikiProject banners are for talk page only use. They should never be placed on the main article page. If you see articles with that please remove them or move them to the talk page. --Majora (talk) 20:43, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the clarification. I'm a novice at using banners. SO. MANY. RULES. --Jwslubbock (talk) 21:47, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

text: By the way, if anyone is interested, I added to the History of the Kurds article today and an anonymous IP address deleted everything I wrote, saying my source (Izady, a well known writer on Kurdish history) was unreliable. I opened a discussion on the talk page and would appreciate people saying whether they think it's an unfair reversion.--Jwslubbock (talk) 21:48, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: If the argument is actually that the Kurds can be associated with 7000 year old sites and cultures, then I'd say that Izady doesn't belong there. Doug Weller talk 19:19, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikiproject Kurdistan banner