Talk:Amble

message: Large parts of the article amount to unverified opinion pieces, especially the sections headed
*Battles for a separate council
*Coquet High School
*The Skate Park
*The division between rich and poor
-- Picapica 07:43, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:V.--176.253.179.215 (talk) 20:48, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

text: Template:River Coquet settlements was changed from a vertical list to horizontal, consistent with other UK river templates. I've moved the template so it's with the others at the end of the page. Peter James (talk) 10:37, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thank you--AnnaAtTheAmbler (talk) 09:57, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Attention needed 

message: In the section about railways it says that the railway 'runs via the nearby Alnmouth for Alnwick Station'. The station in Hipsburn is Alnmouth station, the station in Alnwick closed decades ago. Have I misunderstood this sentence or is it just wrong?--Jcvamp 17:19, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Alnmouth station was officially renamed "Alnmouth for Alnwick", for some reason, a year or so back. AndrewMcQ 23:34, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, I didn't realise. That's kind of stupid. Thanks.--Jcvamp 18:30, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alnwick station? 

message: I cannot use the most part of the Alnwick district's towns pictures? I try to translate this articles into Italian, but i just create meagre pages, being not able to include some pictures of the village I'm speaking about. Anyone can find me a solution? --Fiertel91 (talk) 00:17, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Can I know why..

message: I'm going to alter the statement so it simply' says where it comes from.  I believe the statement at the moment is raising questions rather than providing information which is what Wikipedia is about.  We need to find a source to confirm exactly what Mauritania radioed to Amble, also I would doubt they would use the word 'kindliest' considering its not a word in the english language according to the Oxford English Dictionary.  Furthermore the statement about Berwick being the last port in England is taking the statement out of context.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.38.67.211 (talk) 10:59, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Friendliest Port 

message: Citation is required for the assertion that Amble was known as Amble by the Sea until 1985.  The Ordnance Survey still has the civil parish named Amble by the Sea Election Maps as does the Office for National Statistics Census 2001.  It appears from trawling through the web that the parish council styles itself Amble Town Council, though I am unable to find any official documents to corroborate this.  However, even if this is the case, it does not necessarily mean that the name has been officially changed. Skinsmoke (talk) 00:53, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name 

message: Samuel Johnson MBE included in this list - is he notable? Haven't removed as he might well be, but can't find anything on web about him.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by J mcquillen (talk • contribs) 22:21, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable Citizens 

message: Can anyone convert  into a navbox? I think that the template may have been created before navboxes were available but, really, this should be one and it should be situated either vertically below the infobox or - better - at the bottom of the page with the other horizontal navboxes. I've just fixed the alpha-order of the the template but don't know how to take it further. --2.219.231.166 (talk) 14:02, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  River Coquet settlements 

message: "Multiple references are using the same name" — name="Nef"   ~   I can't fix this (don't have reference access). ~:74.60.29.141 (talk) 02:03, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed. If you are in the UK and cannot see that or other sources, try this - a US proxy for GBooks.--176.253.179.215 (talk) 04:59, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: And anyone who has access to the archives of The Observer and The (Manchester) Guardian will find shedloads of references to "Amble Northumberland" from the start of publication of those newspapers until the 2000s. Many relate to shipwrecks etc but there really is all sorts of stuff in there - 369 hits. Similarly, for The Times.--176.253.179.215 (talk) 07:08, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference error 

message: I have just removed the Development Trust stuff. I did copyedit it a few days ago, when it appears now to have been a literal copy-paste from the Trust website. Even after my copyedit, it is still a very close paraphrase and thus not acceptable. I have no qualms about something about this group appearing in the article but we have to use of own words etc. I still have some grave doubts about The Ambler and about some of the external links.--176.253.179.215 (talk) 09:55, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Ref the Tourism section - A £10,000 grant has been awarded to promote the town with a "Puffin Festival" - this is not true. The money was awarded to promote the town's independent businesses AND to stage two promotional festivals, one of which is the puffin festival.--CosmicWildernessWarrior (talk) 16:00, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: So find an independent source that says so. The BBC seems not to do and, in any event, the elaboration seems trivial to me: it is the Puffin bit that has hit the headlines. As I understand it, the grant is pretty much a consolation prize after failure related to the Portas scheme, but that also is too trivial to mention. Define "independent business" while you are at it, please. However you do so, there won't be many that survive Tesco's arrival, except estate agents etc. That's how much most people care about independent businesses in the UK.--176.253.179.215 (talk) 16:17, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  This statement above is of course your own opinion. And I believe it is not trivial. To state that £10K has been awarded purely for a puffin festival is misleading.--CosmicWildernessWarrior (talk) 17:06, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The only reference I can find at the moment, apart from the BBC website, is from The Ambler website, and it appears to be clearer on this issue. As there is currently debate over the inclusion of The Ambler in this article, I am reluctant to add it as a source.--Jcvamp (talk) 16:53, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Cosmic, you may perhaps be an inhabitant of Amble and maybe even a business person there, which would certainly affect your opinion. We say what the sources say, not what we think to be true - WP:V. The independent source appears to have picked up on the festival which, pretty much self-evidently, should boost footfall etc. The sourcing issue was a big problem with this article until recently and precisely why someone tagged it as needing sources some years ago. Seemingly, no-one was willing to do anything about it. I am trying.--176.253.179.215 (talk) 17:17, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  here you are: http://www.mediatrust.org/newswirefeed/puffin-festival-wins-grant-funding/2510--CosmicWildernessWarrior (talk) 18:51, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  Indeed. And it latches on to the Puffin Festival bit, as with the BBC. I amended the wording an hour or so ago. Let that be the end of this, please, otherwise I'll just remove the entire paragraph that I added because this battling is ridiculous. If people had spent as much energy trying to improve the article instead of descending on it with their hobbyhorses as they have done recently then perhaps it would long ago have attained WP:GA status.--176.253.179.215 (talk) 19:10, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Development Trust 

message: It seems that the marina development came about in the mid-1980s as a result of grant money being awarded. I'd really rather we didn't use The Ambler as a source for anything much in the article because it is clearly too involved & we do not usually cite advocacy groups for anything other than information about themselves. Are there are local news sources for this development? Eg: local BBC news websites, Alnwick or Newcastle etc newspapers?--176.253.179.215 (talk) 10:35, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The last chapter of Tony Rylance & Paul Morrison's book: Amble the Friendliest Port: http://www.abebooks.co.uk/Amble-Friendliest-Port-Pictorial-History-Northumberland/8273187869/bd has some information on the development Marina.--CosmicWildernessWarrior (talk) 15:43, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: In what way is The Ambler too involved? user:AnnaAtTheAmbler hasn't done anything to the article since 3rd January according to her Contributions page.--Jcvamp (talk) 16:30, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Advocacy groups are not deemed to be reliable sources except for statements concerning themselves (eg: their constitution and aims). That is a well-established principle at WP:RSN Similarly, per WP:COI, anyone involved with the town has a conflict of interest and needs to take care. Her username itself was a violation of policy, by the way. It is quite clear from the state that this article was in, and the warring about external links, that various people had/have a conflict of interest. In particular, there was a glossing-over of what really seems to be, alas, a pretty dire socio-economic situation in favour of accentuating the positive.--176.253.179.215 (talk) 16:41, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: In what way is a newspaper an advocacy group? I know there has definitely been COI on this page, but I thought that had been resolved.--Jcvamp (talk) 16:48, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Because it is a voluntarily-run, Development Trust & Council-supported (perhaps even financed) initiative. It lacks professional standards of independence and editorial oversight and is quite clearly intended to promote the cohesion of the town rather than exist as a business etc. By my reckoning, as an outsider, it does a decent job of that but it seems to be a small-circulation organ of advocacy. I am still wandering through the website but finding it quite awkward to navigate because the same stories keep cropping up, perhaps because it uses a tag system like a blog. So far, I am finding nothing in the way of critical reportage, for example, except in the "have your say" sections. "Everything is rosy in Amble" but, of course, it is not.--176.253.179.215 (talk) 17:11, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: So, it's an issue of whether or not it's a reliable source. How do we determine that? Still not sure if it can be classed as an advocacy group, but I understand your point.--Jcvamp (talk) 17:21, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

text: I've been reading WP:NEWSORG and it's hard to judeg. It does say, 'Whether a specific news story is reliable for a specific fact or statement in a Wikipedia article will be assessed on a case-by-case basis.'--Jcvamp (talk) 17:26, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd be more inclined to accept it as a genuine news organisation if you or someone else could find some news stories within it that are critical of the town, its businesses or its administration etc. It seems to me to be an organ of local puffery, which is fine and good for its intended purpose but useless as a source on wikipedia. It is for the same reason that we disapprove of hagiographies as sources for biographies. In any event, if the point here is to say more about the grant mentioned in the section above then we'll have to be aware of weight also: it is one government grant among many that the town has had over the years and it really is rather small (eg: £1.5 million was given to local businesses in the 1970s)--176.253.179.215 (talk) 17:37, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Marina 

message: The words 'The civil parish, which has town status,' have a citation needed tag next to them. What exactly does it mean to have town status? --Jcvamp (talk) 01:14, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: There are various definitions, however a parish council may call itself a town - Town status in the United Kingdom redirects to List of towns in the United Kingdom, which provides explanation. The council's website should be sufficient for this; a .gov domain confirms it's official. Peter James (talk) 01:23, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: A .gov.uk domain does not confirm that it is a town. That is a ridiculous and plainly incorrect assumption, eg: . And please read WP:CIRCULAR with regard to the links you provide. Unless those linked articles have reliable sources that we can use in this article for the assertion, they are useless.--176.253.179.215 (talk) 09:24, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The "list of towns" article has a source (Local Government Act 1972, which is also cited as a source in Civil parishes in England) - there's another in Parish councils in England. And it's the use of "Town Council" that confirms it's a town - when used on the main page of a .gov domain that confirms that it's an official site. Peter James (talk) 11:53, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: None of that - even the council website - confirms that the civil parish is a town. In fact, the difference in nomenclature may be significant there. Easier just to remove the point of doubt, as I have done.--176.253.179.215 (talk) 12:06, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The council's site only refers to it as a town. You've claimed that they "do not necessarily align" (any examples of this?), but the parish's status of town is from the council it's unclear how this is possible - particularly as it's a successor parish. It's unreasonable to require a source saying that there is no such anomaly in Amble. Where is the difference in nomenclature? Peter James (talk) 13:37, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Successor parish?--176.253.179.215 (talk) 19:29, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Successor parish - a replacement for an existing district, not created from part of an unparished area. A few were created from only parts of existing districts (which I should have remembered), but this was not one of them. The parish of Amble was created by The Local Government (Successor Parishes) Order 1973 under powers from the Local Government Act 1972, to replace Amble Urban District. Peter James (talk) 20:20, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, and yikes! I'll have to try to get my head round that. I am trying to expand/improve this article in a lot of different directions at the moment and the minutiae of post-war English local government changes have never been my strongest suit.--176.253.179.215 (talk) 21:27, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

text: We first need agreement over the authority of 'www.keystothepast.info', as it was called into question in the previous thread.--Jcvamp (talk) 14:23, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  ok try this link. Esp page 7 http://www.archaeologicalresearchservices.com/projects/nerczapdfs/Chapter%208%20South%20Beach,%20Blyth%20to%20Low%20Newton-by-the-Sea.pdf --CosmicWildernessWarrior (talk) 16:11, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks promising.--Jcvamp (talk) 18:16, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

text: A citation of Keys To The Past was removed here by an anonymous user. The site has been discussed before at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Blyth, Northumberland, where it was accepted and the article was promoted to FA. Peter James (talk) 22:53, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Find something else, as Cosmic appears to have done. A source that specifically says it is compiled from other sources and which refuses to accept responsibility for its content is not acceptable and should not be so anywhere, let alone in a FA. Apart from the obvious, the compilation may include material from Wikipedia itself - completely useless.--176.253.179.215 (talk) 09:07, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: If people bothered to read the stuff that I've already added, they'd find that there are sources already for the artefacts that were found at nearby Gloster Hill etc. That's why I cite-dumped some books in Further Reading, with a note to the effect that they could be mined, and it is why I left a comment about such here under my 2.* IP address a few days ago. There is no need to use keys for this.--176.253.179.215 (talk) 09:20, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: It can be replaced with better sources, but don't replace it with "citation needed". The disclaimer is not as unusual as you may think - Skye was promoted to FA recently and appeared on the main page yesterday, with sources including Ordnance Survey (disclaimers:) and Gazetteer for Scotland (also with a disclaimer:) - and those are among the more reliable of the online sources used in the article. Anything published since the mid 2000s (including books and newspapers) may rely on Wikipedia for some of its information - and it's unlikely that this was copied from Wikipedia. Peter James (talk) 11:53, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I am aware of Wayback, thanks. My point was more general and you have rather confirmed it in your comment on the ubiquity of Wikipedia. That is precisely why we should take extreme care with sources that have disclaimers or whose information is not clearly sourced to something else. If you think otherwise then you may as well not bother sourcing at all.--176.253.179.215 (talk) 12:05, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Take it to the noticeboard, if that's what you think, use of source such as this (and others less reliable) in this way is accepted by other editors. More disclaimers: The Times, The Guardian, information on those sites is usually provided without citations of sources, so are they also unusable? Peter James (talk) 13:37, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I will in due course. I'll email Malleus first, since he was one of those involved in the discussion that you linked to and is one of the few straight-talkers we have (had?). In any event, we don't need to use the source here and so we won't.--176.253.179.215 (talk) 19:29, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Town status 

message: Hauxley also appears in sources as Auxley, Hawksley etc, presumably being archaic spellings. Are these the same place as Low Hauxley?--176.253.179.215 (talk) 12:01, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hauxley 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Amble. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120916100844/http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/averages/19712000/sites/boulmer.html to http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/averages/19712000/sites/boulmer.html
*Added archive http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20121005231719/http%3A//www3.northumberland.gov.uk/Councillor/Upload/CDocs/1049_M257.doc to http://www3.northumberland.gov.uk/Councillor/Upload/CDocs/1049_M257.doc
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I'm a bit confused about the Etymology section. A recent change by  made Scottish Gaelic explicit in the text, though it didn't actually change the resultant link. Even so, the text goes on to say that Irish missionaries might have brought the name in - so would that really be Scottish Gaelic that we should refer to, or the Irish flavour? I've reverted for now but just to draw attention to this, not as a hostile act! I'd be very interested to see what people think and I am tb-ing and have pinged (pung?) Mahagaja. Best to all, DBaK (talk) 12:53, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Looking at the context more closely, probably a link to Goidelic languages would be better (and it should say Goidelic rather than Gaelic). The form cited, "Am Béal", is kind of a mishmash anyway; the Scottish Gaelic spelling would be am beul, and the Irish spelling would be an béal. —Mahāgaja (formerly Angr) · talk 13:01, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  - thank you for the nice and very interesting response. I had never knowingly seen the word Goidelic before but I am happy to bow to your obvious expertise and I have whacked it in on general sheep/lamb-hanging grounds. That said, I am not sure why we are saying just Goidelic when the Goidelic languages article does mention Gaelic as an alternative, but since you have made this explicit I have gone with it, but of course without knowing the subtleties that no doubt inform your suggestion. What this means is that when other editors queue up here to beat me up, I am confidently expecting that you will be right by my side with assistance and explanationon my own, I'm doomed! :) Cheers DBaK (talk) 16:35, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  "Gaelic" is an alternative name for Goidelic, but it's somewhat ambiguous as it can be used to refer specifically to Scottish Gaelic, and sometimes to Irish (more in the Irish diaspora than in Ireland itself). The language family as a whole is usually called Goidelic, especially in scholarly writing, but calling it Gaelic isn't wrong. All that said, however, I'm pretty skeptical that Amble has a Goidelic etymology. I'm not at all sure that Gaelic speakers ever made it that far south (see the maps at History of Scottish Gaelic and Brittonic languages#History and origins). An Old English etymology is far more likely; and if it is Celtic, it's more likely to be Brythonic (Cumbric or something close to it) than Goidelic. —Mahāgaja (formerly Angr) · talk 17:17, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

text: I just re-read the article and noticed that the source attributes a Goidelic name to Irish missionaries rather than a local Gaelic-speaking population. So that takes care of my immediate objection, but I remain skeptical. —Mahāgaja (formerly Angr) · talk 17:21, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Soooo ... leave it as is, or would you prefer to go for something else? I'm not an expert on Gaelic or Amble or anything much, so I am not wedded to any particular version - as long as it ends up credible and referenced I will stand u and salute it. Cheers DBaK (talk) 18:18, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: It's got a source, so we may as well leave it. —Mahāgaja (formerly Angr) · talk 15:02, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gaelic