Talk:Maynard Solomon

message: I have scoured the Internet and several large music dictionaries for the name of the electronic composer mentioned under "Career in the recording industry", with no luck. There is never going to be a citation here, however fervently one is demanded. It seems to me there are only two options: let the Szajkowski anecdote pass (without citation) or remove it for being 'original research'. Awaiting input... --Alphaten (talk) 14:12, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Michael Szajkowski

message: Solomon‘s "claim to fame" in the context of the enigmatic "Immortal Beloved", namely fabricating "evidence" (in his arrm-chair), as stated below, "demonstrates, as indeed Tellenbach has done, that much of the basis for the claims of Antonie's supporters consists of distortions, suppositions, opinions, and even plain inaccuracies." (Cooper 1996, p. 18) Given that we are dealing here with Beethoven’s "love life" in some sense, it should be noted that the insinuation that he was – ever, occasionally or even regularly – visiting prostitutes is actually not supported by any conclusive evidence (Tellenbach 1983, pp. 285–287). It is also well-known that Beethoven lived most if not all his life like a monk (i.e., celibate): "… der spätere Beethoven [geht] geradezu wie ein Asket durch die Geschichte.” [The later Beethoven is walking virtually like an ascetic thru history.] (Goldschmidt 1977, p. 325.)
After dwelling extensively on some gossip that Beethoven might have visited prostitutes (in his fifties – the man was frequently ill and bedridden, close to his death!),  Solomon then relates this rather juicy story:
:"Would you like to sleep with my wife?" asked Karl Peters in a Conversation Book of January 1820. … Peters was about to leave on a trip and generously offered his wife … to Beethoven for a night. Beethoven’s reply … was apparently affirmative, for Peters wrote that he would go and "fetch his wife." (Solomon 1998, p. 340.)
In a footnote, Solomon (1998, p. 475, n. 37) even provides the original German text of what Peters wrote:
:"Wollen Sie bey [!] meiner Frau schlafen? Es ist so kalt."
Here, "bey" ("bei" in modern German) translates first as "at" (and then maybe as "in", "with", etc., depending on context). And why was "Es ist so kalt" [It is very cold] omitted?
Solomon (1998, p. 475, n. 37) then adds the – astonishing – comment:
:One authority implausibly [!] suggests the entry could be read, "Would you like to sleep over at my wife’s place?"
In case you know some German, you might be inclined to think (quite plausibly!) the same as this "one authority" (why not named?): The context, unfortunately, does not fit the picture of Beethoven the notorious fornicator (nor the – respected – Peters  couple being habitually promiscuous). According to Tellenbach (1983, p. 285), it went like this:
:Hofrat Peters: "Ich muß mit meiner Frau um 5 nach Gumpendorf. Wollen Sie bey meiner Frau schlafen? Es ist so kalt." (Court Councilor Peters: "I have to go to Gumpendorf with my wife at 5 o’clock. Do you want to sleep at my wife’s [place]? It is very cold.")
So, Beethoven’s (and Prince Lobkowitz‘s) old friend Peters offered his wife’s house (being vacated but well heated – it’s January!) to him to stay there for a night… After which Peters had to excuse himself, as he wrote into the deaf man’s book:
I need … to pick up my wife. 
– for their journey. Not to "fetch" her and lead her into Beethoven’s bed! John E Klapproth (talk) 01:17, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Immortal Beloved]] and Solomon's fabrications

message: It was only recently (Klapproth 2016, p. 40) that Solomon's Antonie hypothesis was finally and thoroughly refuted. The answer to this perennial question can be found already in the second part of Beethoven's famous Letter:
(1)	"Mondays – Thursdays – the only days when the mail coach goes from here to K."
(2)	"... you will probably not before Saturday receive the first message from me."
Beethoven was in Teplitz when he wrote this on Tuesday the 7th (no doubt about that), and Antonie Brentano was (as Beethoven knew very well) at the same time (for several weeks) in "K" (Karlsbad). From Teplitz to Karlsbad (ca. 100 km), the post coach took just one day. Therefore, if it had been intended for Antonie, she would have received the Letter on Friday morning, the latest. If, however, Beethoven expected the addressee to receive the Letter not before Saturday (and "probably") then she must have been two days away from Teplitz, or one more day from Karlsbad - in a westerly direction: the next bigger township is Eger [Cheb], ca. 50 km from Karlsbad (and Franzensbad another 10 km away). Now it is established that Antonie is definitely ruled out, and only Josephine remains as a likely candidate, it helps to know that the Austrian Emperor was briefly in Franzensbad on 5 July 1812, and given the known fact that Josephine's first husband was a personal friend of the Emperor (to whom she went to ask for help, after becoming a widow), it makes sense to assume that she tried to meet him there (after her encounter with Beethoven on 3–4 July).John E Klapproth (talk) 23:50, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Antonie: refuted by Beethoven himself

message: It is interesting that such strong feelings are generated about someone who is mainly a Mozart scholar.  Who was the authority on Mozart's music before Maynard Solomon clarified the truth on the life of Mozart?  Who is the leading authority on Mozart and His music in Germany? DavoudMSA (talk) 11:43, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: A useful question, and I'd be curious to know other people's answers.  Opus33 (talk) 16:32, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: A question that again betrays only ignorance. Solomon is not a Mozart scholar, he is an author of a well-written semi-documentary biography of Mozart. He was mainly known as a writer on Beethoven, Mozart only was a kind of appendix to his earlier work on that composer. Solomon clarified nothing "on the life of Mozart", he added a number of nonsensical mistakes that unfortunately keep popping up in the work of writers who do too much copywork. Solomon doesn't know the primary sources, he has never read Mozart's letters in their original German version (not to mention a heap of German secondary literature) and being no musicologist by education, his expertise on Mozart's music is absolutely nil. The leading Mozart scholar in Germany is Professor Ulrich Konrad (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulrich_Konrad) and as a matter of fact he also is THE most important Mozart scholar on the planet. Of course he doesn't write semi-fictional biographies, which could be the reason that he is not too well known outside academia. Real scholars don't have to rely on ballyhoo.--Suessmayr (talk) 07:10, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Very Touchy Page for an Academic 

message: It's absurd to call Solomon a musicologist, when his only academic qualification is a bachelor's degree in psychology. Every real and serious musicologist must take this as a personal insult.--62.47.143.114 (talk) 16:44, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Musicologist?

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: The statement that Solomon studied psychology is tagged as possibly "original research."
Solomon was an Associate Editor of "American Imago," a journal which was founded by Sigmund Freud and Hanns Sachs.  The journal's home page states that it is "the leading scholarly journal of psychoanalysis."  https://www.press.jhu.edu/journals/american-imago
Volume 36, No. 4, Winter 1979 of "American Imago" was devoted to "SYMPOSIUM ON BEETHOVEN: Discussion of Maynard Solomon's Study."  Mr. Solomon was listed as an Associate Editor at that time. "Front Matter." American Imago 36, no. 4 (1979). Accessed May 17, 2021. http://www.jstor.org/stable/26303370.
:I can't see any mention in the links you provided, nor in American Imago, vol 36, no. 4, , that Solomon was Associate Editor at that journal. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 05:11, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Maynard Solomon And Psychology