Wikipedia talk:Categories for discussion/Archive 6

message: I'd do it myself but I think that there needs to be a notice put on the talk pages for the outcome of the debate.  Or is that not done if the nomination is withdrawn.  --JeffW 03:29, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I searched on the cfd page for what you are talking about, but had no results from 'chron' or 'timeli'. You can either link it here and I'll go put the template on it, or you can do it yourself:  (with the date in YYYY Month DD format and result = withdrawn). --Syrthiss 13:11, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The cfd is in here: Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 March 30, but I'll make the changes.  You may want to check that I did it correctly.  --JeffW 14:48, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Its ok, I had the template already up in another window so I slapped it on there for you (now that I had the discussion link from you) :) --Syrthiss 14:57, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was doing cat:Timelines, but I couldn't figure out how to make the template work so could you do that one too?  Thanks.  --JeffW 14:59, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not a prob, will do. --Syrthiss 15:00, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please remove cfm templates from Chronology and Timelines 

message: There appears to be a growing backlog of requests that are not being processed.  Are all of the bots down or has everyone stopped feeding work to the bots?  Vegaswikian 23:02, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: AFAIK the only bot that was functioning was NekoDaemon, and its been down for almost a month.  Pegasus had said they were going to set up pegasusbot to do the category redirect stuff, but I don't know what is happening with that (I'll go ask).  All I know is I sit here from when I get home from work to when I need to go to sleep grinding cat changes with syrcatbot.  FWIW, the list is just somewhat unnaturally long because we've had a few umbrella noms come through the past few days (beers, northern irish, and the transport in XXX). --Syrthiss 01:25, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Pegasus says he hasn't set up the bot to do the automated moves yet. --Syrthiss 02:43, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

text: I've asked user:Beland if he can put user:Pearle to work on the backlog.  -- Rick Block (talk) 01:42, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  What's with the bots? 

message: I have started a discussion on the CFD policy page about revising part of the policy.  Specifically, the policy for how to handle No Consensous debates does not reflect how they really are handled, and the two have been out of sync for a long time. - TexasAndroid 15:54, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  CFD policy change debate 

message: Who does the merging, once its decided by an admin that the categories should be merged.  The admin?  Do they have some tool that makes it really easy to merge?  Or are we supposed to do it?  Thanks, --Urthogie 08:40, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Anyone can merge or rename or empty categories once the discussions have been decided.  You can either do it by hand (I prefer a tabbed browser if I need to make a similar edit to ~10 articles), or you can use a "smart" browser like Autowikibrowser (tho you have to ask to be added to the approved userlist or be an admin).  AWB has settings for emptying categories and replacing category X with category Y on every page in category X.  As you can see from WP:CFD/W, we're kind of backlogged so any help is appreciated. --Syrthiss 11:26, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I see.  I may help with that.  By the way, one more question-- why is there no template for linking to an "umbrella heading" for pages that are to be merged?  There's only  and , but no .--Urthogie 11:30, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know.  Maybe it has never come up before. ;) Syrthiss 13:03, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  question 

message: Where is the instruction that says you're not supposed to empty a category rather than (or prior to, or at the same time as) listing it for deletion? I know I've seen it and now I can't find it. User:Attilios is currently in violation with regard to :category:Forza Italia politicians. --Trovatore 18:34, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's the second bullet under step 5 in part II of the instructions at WP:CFD. -- Rick Block (talk) 02:55, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: rule about emptying cats

message: This continues from this thread.
I wandered elsewhere and only now saw that Wikipedia:Deletion process doesn't seem to have any instructions on renaming categories. It looks like there has been a lot of restructuring on CFD-related pages to combat the backlog caused by the absence of CFD-bots. But even the 4 April version of the page doesn't have any category-renaming instructions as shown by . -- Paddu 20:11, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added rename instructions at Wikipedia:Deletion process#Categories for Deletion page. -- Rick Block (talk) 03:03, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Category renaming done through cut and paste moves? 

message: User:Outriggr emptied this category and turned it into a redirect to :Category:Lists of lists.  Isn't that doing an end run around CFD?  --JeffW 13:08, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What was in Structured lists before he emptied it?  It is a violation of process, tho I've only poked people before for emptying a category and THEN bringing it to CFD for deletion as a fait accompli.  There's probably some dividing line that should exist, like "If you are sure that nobody will possibly complain about this category change then go ahead and do it" (analagous to page moves and all other wiki editing), but considering the work that it takes to move stuff between categories that line should stay very close to "in all cases bring to cfd". They may also not have known about CFD to know there was a process.  I didn't understand categorization for quite a bit of time after starting on Wikipedia. Sooo, is there some action you would like one of us to take regarding this? --Syrthiss 11:50, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[:Category:Structured lists]] 

message: I recently discovered that category:Living People (note the capital P) had people in it who should be in Category:Living people (with a small p) I followed the instructions and got a friendly admin to edit the page so that the bot would go round and clear it up.  I then discovered that the bot wasn't working.  Since then I have periodically had a look at the category and moved across any that were in there.  Is there a short term solution to this, like deleting the category, so that capital P's show up as red links in articles and are more visible?  Given that Living people is a special category with a very defined purpose, having some articles in another category slightly defeats the purpose of it.  RicDod 08:39, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: FWIW I think we should prolly just keep the catredirect there in Living People.  If/when the bots start looking for that template (hopefully I get some time and can write a bot to monitor for that), then everything will be fine.  Until then, people will add "Living People" whether it has a redlink or not...and without the blue cat being there I'm not sure anyone would go and check to see there are 50+ articles in there. --Syrthiss 11:54, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Category Living People (note the capital P) 

message: Please see Category talk:Novel sequences#Rename to avoid confusion. Comments appreciated - currently it is easy to confuse :Category:Novel sequences with :Category:Series of books.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 17:14, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comments on renaming two cats 

message: Now that we have parser functions, it was easy to merge the Cfd and Cfdu, Cfr and Cfru, and add similar functionality to Cfm.
Also, in accordance with earlier discussion, now at Wikipedia talk:Categories for deletion/Archive 6#Dealing with the backlog in executing renames, I've added an optional "date=" parameter.  This allows the link directly to the date page, saving lookup time, and assisting finding the discussion.
:--William Allen Simpson 05:30, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: --William Allen Simpson 06:04, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merged each template with its umbrella, and added optional date 

message: After spending some (many) hours looking at the implementation issues for renaming this page to Wikipedia:Categories for discussion, it will take many more hours and considerable effort, as there are a considerable number of existing references and redirects.  I have begun that task.
However, it will be far more difficult to rename the /Log files.  The Wiki redirect doesn't work like a file link, so the "/Log/yyyy Month dd" files will not move heirarchically and automatically.  There are numerous templates that reference and create the logs, and it does not appear to be practical to redesign them to reference logs in two different naming schemes at this time.  The naming format is not condusive to easy sort and comparison.
Therefore, the Log files must remain under Wikipedia:Categories for deletion -- at least until the new year, when the new parser functions could implement a numeric or reasonable string comparison.
At that time, it might also be wise to begin logging by year, as in "/Log 2007/Month dd".
:--William Allen Simpson 19:52, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Further implementation issues 

message: Most categories on English-language Wikipedia regarding people are gender-neutral. And for this reason we have categories (and articles too) titled monarchs instead of kings. Can all actor categories be speedy renamed, replacing "actors" with "actors and actresses"? — Instantnood 16:43, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Check out the article Actor and if you have any comments, please put on talk page. Georgia guy 17:16, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Actor categories

message: I read something the other day about there being an "empty me" page for cats that need to be emptied.  It didn't provide a link to that page though and I can't find the reference now.  Is there a page of cats that need emptying?  While at work, I have some time for small tasks that I don't mind being pulled away from at a moment's notice, so I thought I might help out there.  So where's this page full of cats that need to be emptied?  Or is this done by a bot and there isn't really anything that I can do to help here?  Dismas|(talk) 00:12, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:CFD/W has a section of categories that need emptying, when we have them.  Cyde's bot has been doing pretty good at keeping up the backlog recently, but if there are cats there that need cleaning out thats where they would be.  That page is also transcluded at the bottom of the main CFD page. --Syrthiss 11:53, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, thanks for the response.  Dismas|(talk) 06:39, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "empty me"? 

message: At the bottom of CfD subpage for the 19th, User:Mayumashu added a new blank heading === === just above the HTML comment "please add categories to the top". I guess the reason was to hide the comment from people discussing the first proposal, and to stop it from getting lost. It also adds an entry to the ToC. Problem is, leading and tracing whitespace is stripped from the links there, so it links to an empty anchor. Clicking sends you to the top of the page.
I find it more annoying than the problem it solves. On the other hand, if people find it useful then we should add it to the default page text. Any thoughts? SeventyThree(Talk) 16:10, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm, it doesn't do much for me.  I'd rather just have the people in the first discussion keep moving the comment around unless there's another workaround. Syrthiss 16:15, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I don't know of a workaround to keep it at the bottom. I've looked around before myself for similar reasons, and seen several other people asking - but at the moment I don't know of a way to do it. This is an ingeneous solution, but I still don't like it :) SeventyThree(Talk) 16:32, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  empty headline at the bottom of th 19th 

message: Whenever I am directed to this page from an article, I find that is is nearly imppossible to find the proposal to change a specific category mintioned in the article I am reading.  There is no search capability, no pointer to my article, etc.  Can an impovement be made here?  Thanks Hmains 18:18, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  hard to find anything 

message: The group of categories :Category:Entertainers by age upon death appeared for the third time in six months on the page Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 May 17.  The discussion is now 10 days old with no disposition.  Was it missed by an admin because the listing on the page is in bold but unaccountably has no link to the category? --Blainster 18:28, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Unresolved discussion

message: I have removed the section regarding Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/unresolved, as it doesn't seem to be used anymore (last edit in December). I've marked the page as . Also, it looks like Wikipedia:Category deletion policy needs to be updated (see, for example, recent discussion on its talk page), anyone? Conscious 13:02, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  /Unresolved 

message: Could someone please respond to my question at Category talk:Computing output devices regarding why two votes in favour of renaming a category trumps two votes against? —LX (talk, contribs) 16:08, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Two votes for rename, two for keep, result is rename?