Talk:Dual power

message: The entire second section here should probably be merged into the Zapatista article since that is its main relevance. Thoughts? --Mashford 23:23, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: A Proposal

message: A bunch of NGOs with little or no relation to the topic were listed as examples. Replaced that with an actual current instance of dual power. 72.228.177.92 (talk) 07:37, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Left-Liberal groups listed as examples 

message: This is all wrong. This refers much much more to prefigurative politics than to dual power. I'd propose that this be merged in with prefigurative politics page and this should either be shut down or rewritten.
Dual power refers to a specific period during the Russian Revolution, between the overthrow of the Tsar in February 1917 and the overthrow of the Provisional Government in October 1917.  During that period there was a competition for political legitimacy between the power of the working-class and peasantry, embodied in the Soviet, and the Russian capitalists embodied in the Duma (or parliament).  The famous call for "All power to the Soviets!" was a claim related to the concept of dual power. It was a call for resolving the dual power contradiction by putting the power of the working-class in charge.
It doesn't make sense to say that workers coops, or TAZs are comparable. One couldn't conceivably call for "all power to the workers co-ops" or "all power to the TAZs."
A far better modern comparison would be the General Assembly of the OWS movement.
I'd suggest checking out the part on dual power in Trotsky's history of the russian revolution http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1930/hrr/ch11.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.18.24.123 (talk) 20:18, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  All wrong 

message: The concept of Dual Power was originally conceived by Lenin in 1917 during the Russian Revolution.  Here are two sources from that time period.
http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/apr/09.htm
http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/may/20.htm
Here is a classic treatise on it by Trotsky from his History of the Russian Revolution (1930)
http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1930/hrr/ch11.htm
Not only does this article omit all this historical information, it completely purges the origins of this concept within socialism and presents it as purely an anarchist strategy.  Worse than that, I browsed through this page's history and previous versions did contain this information so this purging may have been deliberate.
Despite the origins of this concept from socialist thinkers, it has relatively recently been picked up on by some anarchists who see it as a strategy for creating liberated spaces that prefigure the future society and gradually eclipse capitalism.  This is in contrast to the socialist conception of dual power where it is not a strategy but an unstable, temporary situation which emerges in revolutionary moments where workers' councils compete with the State for power, with one ultimately winning out over the other.
Completely wrong, dual power was first conceptualised by Proudhon, and the Bolsheviks bastardized it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:EmilePersaud 02:47, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  This Article On Dual Power Solely Portrays the Anarchist Conception and Completely Purges to Original Socialist Conception of It 

message: but not because of any party-line squabbling. The  of this name space is diarchy, not a specific historical instance of it during a few months of Russian history or a Communist doctrine regarding establishing and then supplanting a diarchy formed with an established bourgeois government. Moved. — LlywelynII 03:25, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: This is all wrong

message: We're students editing this page for an assignment for a college Russian Revolution course, and have found that parts of this page stray from the topic of the Russian Revolution. The first paragraph seems to be helpful, but the rest seems to less relevant to the topic. We are hoping to add more historical background, and believe that the Zapatista movement section could be added as an effect rather than a large section of the article.
Feel free to help us edit/improve this page, we are very open to suggestions, but believe this article needs work.
Jen co16 (talk) 17:03, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  History vs. Theory/New Groups 

message: Overall, the article is solid and does not have many mistakes. There are a few things that stuck out to me as I read the article, however. There are some transitions such as "yet" in the article that do not belong here. There is one sentence in the Effects on the Zapatista movement headline that does not make much sense at the end. "On February 3, 1994, Manuel Camacho Solís, the conciliator between the government and the Zapatistas, announced the creation of two free zones in which the International Red Cross would operate and the militaries would not, unwittingly providing the Zapatista communities with a bit of national territory." I feel there could be an addition of another word after "militaries would not" and the sentence would make more sense. All of the links for the citations work except #14. The article seemed neutral to me, there seems to be sufficient information, and the information is not out of date.
Mfili5 (talk) 19:05, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggestions 

message: Hello three of us had the task to edit this page for a college assignment. We added a few new chapters including Provisional Government, July Days, and Bolshevik takeover.
We decided to get rid of the "Zapatista movement" chapter since this page is about Dual Power in the Russian Revolution, and not about the Zapatistas. We tried to include many reliable book sources, and mainly used two books assigned for our classes. We also attempted to remove any biased writings, and when adding our own we tried to write it in a non-biased way. Overall we believe that this page is much more relevant and in depth than it was before.
Sbrinkman50 (talk) 18:28, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Student Editing Final Description 

message: I added the POV tag to this page as it appears to display a large bias towards the Leninist usage of the term which, while relevant and historically important, nonetheless neglects the modern usages of it by other political groups either inspired by or not directly related to the original Leninist version of the term. This article would do well to be reformatted to be more unbiased and to give the different utilizations their own due weight.
In addition, this article needs more sources, as it contains many large paragraphs that either only have one source to back them up, or have none to verify them. The prior removals of different sections for a lack of sources displays an intersection of the POV dispute and verification - individuals are only removing sections for citations that go against the Leninist usages of the terms, and are neglecting the fact that the whole article could do well with new sources to back up all the claims within.  WhatIsAPoggers (talk)04:06, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I do tend to agree with this, though the scope here is a little weird. I don't personally buy that the article should just be about the Russian historical context, I think there's room to add more modern contexts provided it's well-sourced.--Unionhawk Talk 05:15, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

text: I am now noting the fairly colorful move history here, which is probably where the scope weirdness comes from here. I'm not sure what the best move is, since I'm not convinced Diarchy is correct here, but another entry in the Template:About redirecting folks looking for the general concept rather than the specific historical context is probably roughly ideal. Unionhawk Talk 06:12, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

text: Metaphetamine Welso (talk) 08:45, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: POV Dispute - Dual Power & Verification Template

message: Why is Libya given as an example of this? CicolasMoon (talk) 22:41, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Libya