Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Numismatics/Archive 2

message: Hwan moved to Korean hwan as requested. WhiteNight T | @ | C 21:36, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sure there's a good reason that you're moving all of these articles around, but it would be nice if you could explain the reason why longer article names are supposed to be better.  Thank you!  -- Visviva 09:20, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Result

message: I have entered most of the Commemorative coins of Spain since 2002 (euro) by value. Is it OK for you ? --Flafla89 11:28, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Commemorative coins (2nd)

message: I was just thinking it would be cool to be able to look at a watchlist of all articles in the project. Sometimes I'd like to know what's happening within the project as a whole, but I don't want to have to add all the articles to my personal watch list. Does anyone know if it's possible to set up something like that? It's way beyond my current abilities, if it's even possible, but I know some of you have been around here much longer than I have. Mom2jandk 20:08, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It is possible, since Searchme (Joe1) and I put up those templates (see below) I realized that you could see every article that had it on it's talk page. You can see the link here.
Also if the article has a stub, you can see every article that has a 
This is the template that Joe1 and I put on (what we thought) every talk page of every numismatics-related article.
 
I hope this has helped anyone interested.
Johann Wolfgang 21:31, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks -- that's helped me find some things, but it's such a huge list. What I was hoping for was something in the style of "My Watchlist" which shows only the current activity. But it would automatically include all pages with the Numismaticnotice. Mom2jandk 23:24, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: There is nothing in the MediaWiki sofware that has this function you are speaking of, however on Meta there are users that have written programs (Java, Perl, etc.) to do this; none however that I can name off the top of my head unfortunately. 
Johann Wolfgang 04:50, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Project watchlist 

message: There is now a category for :Category:United States currency designers. I was trying to make sure it was relatively complete, and followed some of the infobox links. I found several that weren't in the project. I added them to the category and put the Numismaticnotice in. I'm not familiar with the topic though, so I thought someone who knows some of the names could check. Mom2jandk 00:49, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Added nowiki to the following comment to prevent miscategorization of this page. The original can be seen in the previous revision of this page. — Carl (CBM · talk) 12:51, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

text: Ok, I or someone else will take a close look. And yes, if there is an article that is numismatics related, feel free to put the notice on the talk page. This one: 

	This  is part of the WikiProject Numismatics, which is an attempt to facilitate the categorization and creation of accurate and formal Numismatism-related articles on Wikipedia.  If you would like to participate please visit the project page, where you can join and see a list of open tasks to help with.

Johann Wolfgang 04:56, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

text: For the record, you do that with . Markkawika 00:27, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Currency designers 

message: It is somewhat fitting that I'm involved in categorization of numismatic articles since I'm a member of WikiProjects Numismatics and Categorization. (NOT that this gives me greater authority or expertise on either coins or categories, just that working on it...well, it satiates a need deep inside of me). Anyways, here's an update on what I've been doing...
*Hopefully the issues that I notified project members about have been resolved (it appears that way.) Mom2jandk and I will work together towards a glorious, well-categorized future.
*I created the subcat United States dollar coins as the beginning of an effort to sort out :Category:United States coins, which is currently not organized by type, denomination, series, etc. I will hopefully do the same for other denominations (assuming there are enough specific coins in that denomination; the Stella will not be getting its own category.)
*I would like to create a category for legislation dealing with U.S. coins. From years of reading my Red Book, I noticed many mentions of the Pittman Act, Bland-Allison Act, and others; these are all notable enough to warrant articles, and hopefully I will get around to creating them soon. If anyone has any input on what the category for such laws should be called (perhaps cat:Laws affecting U.S. coinage? clumsy, but I don't know what else to make it) please share.
*I forget who awarded mom2jandk the barnstar, but it was well deserved, and I would have awarded it myself if not for the awkwardness of doing so (i.e. here's a barnstar from PaulHanson in recognition of your dealing with PaulHanson, that incorrigible oaf.) 
That's all for now, keep in touch all. Paul 18:53, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the kind words (and to TantalumTelluride for the barnstar. Paul's original note was so gracious, it's hard for me to imagine anyone getting upset by it (although I know it happens all too often online). So thank you, Paul, for being so thoughtful in how you addressed me to begin with. Mom2jandk 03:24, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I've got to agree. I can almost see the wikilove. ;)  ナイトスタリオン ✉ 07:54, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  :) 
Johann Wolfgang 18:44, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

text: I forgot to mention that I can't think of a better name than "Laws affecting US coinage" except you might want it to be "currency" instead of "coinage" if you want to include bills. Please update the project category list so we'll know where to put articles in the future (and so I won't accidentally mess up your plan when I start implementing changes). Mom2jandk 22:16, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Categories, categories, categories 

message: 1) Ingrid, you get ten points for using the : before linking to a category. 
2) What kind of infoboxes are we interested in creating? I'd be happy to help, leave any questions on my talk page. Paul 05:25, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you, thank you, tips in the jar on the right *bow*. Ingrid 20:55, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

text: As far as the table/infobox for multiple coins/notes on one page, I just realized that  is an example of using an infobox where you can get multiple rows. See Yugoslav dinar for an example. This would be a great thing. I don't have time right now to look at the currency infobox, but wanted to post this so I don't forget. Ingrid 19:28, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thoughts for the day 

message: I made a tag on Commons like , at commons:Template:Money-US, so that images can be uploaded to Commons and use that tag.  There are a bunch of images in :commons:Category:United_States_coins using the generic US public domain tag which could be converted to the money tag. —Kenyon (t·c) 08:37, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Assuming that the claims made in the tag are correct ("the design is ineligible for copyright, and is therefore in the public domain"), I like this idea. Markkawika 20:05, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that re-publishing U.S. dollar images do not violate copyright laws, as they are works of the government. However, you might want to check the laws regarding currency image reproduction. --Chochopk 14:25, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyright tag on Commons 

message: See Rhodesian Dollar. - (Aidan Work 02:49, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, denominations should always start with a lower case letter. See Wikipedia:WikiProject Numismatics/Style. Funny you should pick Rhodesian Dollar as an example. I'm the one who asked Titoxd to move it from Rhodesian Dollar to Rhodesian dollar to match the numismatics style guide. Before we started moving articles, there was no consistent style used. We're trying to find all of the articles and make them consistent. See #Proposed moves for upcoming moves. If you disagree with the existing style guidelines, please share your reasons here. Ingrid 04:45, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Denominations should always start with a capital letter.

message: I was just browsing around (when I really should've been doing something else, but what else is new?) and I found Otis Kaye. He makes currency based art (not counterfeit since it's not intended to be used as money). Seems like he should be in our project, but I'm not sure which category. Maybe a new :Category:Currency related art under :Category:Currency? The name doesn't exactly flow, but it's the best I can come up with. Any suggestions? Ingrid 14:52, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Why not :Category:Currency art or :Category:Art based on currency. Just a few ideas. 
Johann Wolfgang 18:51, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It would have to be :Category:Currency-related art if we were going to use that term.  But I think I prefer :Category:Art based on currency myself. Markkawika 00:42, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  New category? 

message: There are 2 types of Pick catalogues - ones for officially issued banknotes, & ones for private & trading banknotes. The catalogue number prefixes as used by dealers & collectors is as follows;
P number for officially issued banknotes. 'P' is derived from the Pick catalogues listing notes up to 1960, & one listing notes issued since 1961. PS number for private & trading bank notes. 'PS' is derived from the Pick Specialised catalogue. - (Aidan Work 00:51, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Shall I add, PR for regional issues. --Chochopk 13:15, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Using Catalogue References.

message: I'd like to request that no one move any currency articles until after the poll is concluded. I know that I have moved articles in the past without consulting anyone in trying to implement the existing style guide. Now that we're getting consensus from outside of the Numismatics project, I think it's important to wait and see what's decided before we try to implement anything. Thank you. Ingrid 02:32, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  No more moves please 

message: As many of you know, I've been adding succession boxes to currency pages. It just occurred to me that rather than sticking it at the end of the article (often under "External links" which makes no sense), there should be a header. I stuck it under "Succession box" on French franc, but am not really happy with that. Any ideas of a better title? Ingrid 04:31, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I replaced "Succession box" with a vertical line.  I think this is more fitting Kurt 09:13, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Did you mean a horizontal line?  I like your design, Kurt.  I definitely think it should go at the bottom of the page, not at the top. Markkawika 10:25, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Great, I support standardizing common attributes like this. But how is it that nobody comments on my Template:Infobox_Currency (See examples here). I believe it would be a great idea to incorporate succession information into that infobox. --Chochopk 13:15, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, it occurred to me that succession boxes probably belong in the "See also" section. As far as the currency box, I really intend to look at it. I've been occupied with the renaming discussion, but will get to it soon. Ingrid 15:16, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  succession box title 

message: Here's a poll about whether coin & banknote denominations should start with capital letters.Please post your name in the appropriate column & the reason(s) for your choice.You are limited to ONE vote per member. - (Aidan Work 06:30, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Poll on capitalisation of denominations.

message: #User:Aidan Work. - I have always labelled denominations starting with capital letters, which is traditional among serious numismatists. - (Aidan Work 06:30, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: In favour of starting denominations with capital letters.

message: #Non-capitalized is clearly to be preferred.  ナイトスタリオン ✉ 09:10, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Opposed to starting denominations with capital letters.

message: # Instantnood 21:21, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Follow local and common practices

message: Currently Macao redirects to Macau. And it says
:The form "Macao" was the original Portuguese spelling, and has been retained in most European languages. In modern Portuguese, the correct spelling is "Macau". During the 20th century, the official spelling "Macau" became more and more common in English-language sources, including most print media.
:Since the handover of sovereignty, the government of Macau considers "Macao" the official English spelling of the name, whereas "Macau" remains the official spelling in Portuguese. This is the practice followed in official documents such as passports and immigration forms.
So what should we use for the infoboxes, or image filename? --Chochopk 13:36, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Trying Google News, I get twice as many Macau as Macao, which seems to indicate that Macau is the more commonly used form in current English. In addition, all other shtuff (e.g. :Image:Flag of Macau.svg) is standardized to Macau.  ナイトスタリオン ✉ 13:49, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Macau or Macao? 

message: I just noticed that the  template says "This currency- or coinage-related article..." Since currency includes coinage, we should change it, probably to "This currency-related article...". It's going to appear on so many pages I didn't want to make the change without checking. Ingrid 05:38, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. --Chochopk 05:42, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Support.  ナイトスタリオン ✉ 06:46, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Support -Johann Wolfgang 18:26, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Changed. Titoxd(?!? - help us) 02:14, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  money-stub 

message: The templates used for listing coins, banknotes, etc. should settle on a standardized style; right now, they're not consistent with respect to formatting, official coin/note name, coins/notes not currently in production, uniformity in currency topics, etc.  The three examples that currently exist are:
United States currency and coinage
Topics: Federal Reserve Note | United States Note | United States coinage | United States dollar
Currency: $1 | $2 | $5 | $10 | $20 | $50 | $100 | Larger denominations
Coinage: Cent | Nickel | Dime | Quarter | Half Dollar | Dollar
Canadian banknotes and coins
Topics: Canadian dollar | Bank of Canada | Royal Canadian Mint
Banknotes: $5 | $10 | $20 | $50 | $100 | Withdrawn
Coins: 1¢ (Penny) | 5¢ (Nickel) | 10¢ (Dime) | 25¢ (Quarter)  50¢ (50-cent Piece) | $1 (Loonie) | $2 (Toonie)
British coinage
Coins currently in use  One Penny | Two Pence | Five Pence | Ten Pence | Twenty PenceFifty Pence | One Pound | Two Pounds Coins not in general circulation  Half Penny | Twenty-Five Pence | Five Pounds
:Category:British coinage
I think an "ideal" template would be similar to the current US and Canadian templates, but I don't want to go through and change/create templates before collecting a little feedback.  –Swid 20:30, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: category:Currencies of Hong Kong
I agree that there ought to be consistency. First, changing "coins and currency" to "currency" or "coins and banknotes". Other than that, I don't much care. I'm not sure if these will even be necessary once the currency infobox is implemented (see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Numismatics#more infoboxes). Ingrid 22:49, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Currency templates 

message: How do I add these in. For example, I have added in some information about the Governors of the South African Reserve Bank. What I want to know is, how do I add in the succession boxes? - (Aidan Work 01:32, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: What I always do is find a page that has one (Yugoslav dinar has a complex one, Malawian kwacha has a simple one). I click "edit this page", then select the succession box text, and copy and paste it into the new article. Then, I edit it. To me, that's easier than remembering all the details. If you have any specific questions about how they work, feel free to post to my talk page. Ingrid 02:06, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Succession boxes.

message: If you're not already aware of the situation, please drop by these AfDs:
*Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Banknotes of Ireland.
*Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Coins of Ireland.
I personally don't care whether these articles get deleted, merged into the Republic series, or merged from the Republic series, but something has to be done. Melchoir 02:26, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Attention people who care about Ireland! 

message: Until Jiang brought it up, above, I was not aware that we were violating Wikipedia:Naming conventions. Now, I think we are (specifically, that you're supposed to use common names. So, unless we plan to create our own Naming conventions page (which I could see the benefit of, but I'm not sure I want to volunteer to write it or see it through the acceptance process), I think we need to google-search to find waht's commonly used, and go with that. Presumably, we could still refer to currencies however we want within articles (if we end up with a lot of pages that are named differently from how we want to refer to the currency, that would be a reason to propose a new naming convention). Much as I don't like it, I think that's the way we have to go. Ingrid 19:50, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm all for having our own naming convention.  Nightstallion ✉ 22:36, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

text: We should follow the official ISO 4217 currency names. ISO spends a lot of time and money establishing appropriate currency names in English and French. These always coincide with the names by which currencies are most commonly known internationally, but ISO also consults central banks for their opinions. ISO uses country adjectives where the adjective is particularly well known, the country name if the country adjective is not well known or does not exist, or no country if the currency name is unique. There is no point in deviating from these internationally recognised currency names, given that somebody else has already done this research for us very well. However, the ISO 4217 article is not currently accurate. An updated case-sensitive copy of ISO 4217 costs GBP 70.00 if bought from ISO or a capitalised version can be found free in the current SWIFT book. Nfh 22:19, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

text: I don't think the SWIFT book is widely retailed. I occasionally get a copy from the back office of one of the investment banks I work for. The book primarily contains SWIFT codes of banks in order to send payments to them, but it also happens to contain a reliable (capitalised) copy of ISO 4217. Nfh 09:28, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Exactly, I couldn't agree more. For example, changing Pound Sterling to "British Pound" for consistency is absurd, because the currency is not commonly known as "British Pound". ISO 4217 ensures that we use the commonly used names, using country adjectives only if those adjectives are common in international usage. Nfh 09:28, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

text: So what's the verdict? This topic has been discussed to death! Once we get a consensus, people can actually start implementing what we decide. I could really use some help on the infobox... --Chochopk 14:05, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: shrugs What I'd like to see used isn't likely to survive this, but I'd say we should have a simple vote on it – ISO 4217/common name or standardized usage. Either way, we would have some way of ((COUNTRY)) ((CURRENCY)) implemented, as far as I see, with a few exceptions like euro, pound sterling and yuan renminbi, right? —Nightstallion (?) 14:21, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm fine with using ISO 4217, but what about currencies that were around before ISO 4217? I think consistency is important, but it doesn't have to be arbitrary consistency. That is, ISO 4217 does not have any consistent rule (at least as I understand it), yet we would be consistent if we always followed 4217. Similarly, "common use" as determined by google is consistent, even when it doesn't yield a consistent style from one currency to the next. It allows people who are creating new pages to know what to name them, and people who are looking for pages to know where to look. That's what I think is important -- I personally will be happy with whatever rule is adopted. Ingrid 19:56, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I have a 1997 copy of ISO 4217 which we can use for some of the obsolete currencies (particularly the pre-euro legacy currencies). For anything older than that, perhaps we could ask ISO. They may be kind enough to provide a very old copy of ISO 4217 free of charge, or they may be able to help with specific historic questions. My understanding is that the British Standards Institute maintains ISO 4217 on behalf of ISO, so it may be best to go directly to them. See their web site. Nfh 20:13, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: As I understand it (and I'm certainly no expert), ISO 4217 is only intended to label currencies back to 1900. I didn't see a list of the codes from the BSI. Here's a link to the list on the ISO website, but it appears to be only current currencies. I notice that both Malawian kwacha and Zambian kwacha are listed as "kwacha", so that wouldn't work for page names. Ingrid 23:51, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Comment: Is capitalising (Dollar or dollar) part of the ISO 4217 standard? — Instantnood 18:05, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

text: That's my concern, too. If it is – then I'm all for modifying it to set up our own naming convention, based on ISO; that might also serve to avoid copyright issues. —Nightstallion (?) 19:46, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure now whether ISO4217 stipulates case. Shortly before the euro was introduced on 1 January 1999, I remember speaking to the British Standards Institute about ISO4217, who told me that the euro would have a lower case 'e' in ISO4217, but I see it now has a capital 'E'. As we all know, the E on euro is definitely lower case in English (upper case only in German). Now I'm not sure what to think. NFH 19:01, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Naming conventions 

message: Let's get this over with. We deal with the principal now, and minor details/exceptions later --  Chochopk 12:20, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Comment: Is capitalising (Dollar or dollar) part of the ISO 4217 standard? — Instantnood 18:05, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

text: That's my concern, too. If it is – then I'm all for modifying it to set up our own naming convention, based on ISO; that might also serve to avoid copyright issues. —Nightstallion (?) 19:46, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure now whether ISO4217 stipulates case. Shortly before the euro was introduced on 1 January 1999, I remember speaking to the British Standards Institute about ISO4217, who told me that the euro would have a lower case 'e' in ISO4217, but I see it now has a capital 'E'. As we all know, the E on euro is definitely lower case in English (upper case only in German). Now I'm not sure what to think. NFH 19:01, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: '''Vote'''

message: I have started tagging articles for recategorization, using . Anyone want to volunteer to help? I've been going through List of currencies and have made it through the b's. Of course, there are many, many other articles that may need to be recategorized, I just thought I'd start with the currencies which I think are in the worst shape. Ingrid 20:52, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tagging articles for recategorization 

message: I just noticed that someone requested that Brazilian cruzeiro be moved to cruzeiro (currency). I've voted against, and included links to various supporting arguments here. Please add your vote (regardless of where you think the page should be, I think we've agreed that we should decide before moving any more articles). Thanks Ingrid 19:06, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, noticing the dates, the discussion is really old, referring to moving it from cruzeiro to cruzeiro (currency). Should I remove the requested move notice, or is that for an admin to do? Ingrid 19:09, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brazilian cruzeiro 

message: Hey everyone, sorry I haven't been around much lately (and how ever did you get along without me??!?) but I just wanted to say that a) this wikiproject is pretty remarkable and I'm proud to be a part of it and b) currency article titles shouldn't, in my opinion, include the country/issuing authority name unless it needs disambiguation (i.e. dollar or franc). That aside, you people are doing great things. Paul 08:36, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm glad you like our little project. I don't think currency titles should have the country or issuing authority name either, however if there is any confusion between articles we will have to use the country and issuing authority name. Maybe we should have a poll in this. Just an idea. Johann Wolfgang 17:20, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Me again

message: Who is an admin here? I need some help: I have some images that I moved to Commons. So the copies on en need to be deleted. I really hate having duplicate copies for the same purpose. And do other languages have a similar template like Template:NCT to give the admins a list of images that are moved to Commons? --Chochopk 11:56, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: the images you have uploaded on commons claims that you drew them. Is this true? It seems to be a copy of the current images on en which are labelled fairuse. If you did not draw them, and they are improperly tagged on commons, then they do not belong on commons and will be eventually deleted. --Jiang 08:18, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

text: I dont think a scan counts as a creation. you are reproducing the image, not creating it. you do not gain copyrights by using someone else's copyright. those images should not be on commons. --Jiang 19:17, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

text: fairuse or public domain, depending on country/currency. use of the  tag will do.--Jiang 23:00, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who is an admin? 

message: I created a few new things - Mexican Mint, Royal Spanish Mint, and :Category:Mints of Australia. All could use some expansion/improvement, so as always feel free to take a look and contribute. Now that I think about it - should the titles of the Mexican and Spanish mint articles be in Spanish, or should they be the translated names as provided by the mints themselves? If they should be in Spanish then someone could take the initiative of moving them. Paul 20:32, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New stuff 

message: Template:Coin has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at Wikipedia:Templates for deletion#Template:Coin. Thank you. It is redundant with Template:Infobox Coin.  Please lend your input to the discussion and vote to delete it.  Markkawika 00:53, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  TfD nomination of Template:Coin