Talk:John Rutledge

message: How did he die?
Jsaurman (talk) 07:55, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Death

message: All of the trivia about who is related to who is honestly quite cumbersome, and not encyclopedic at all. I'm going to take it out in a few days unless anyone objects. I'll put it here, so that none of you have any reason to be distressed if you'd like to put it back. Captain Scotch 00:56, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is that even worth keeping? 

message: I am doing a report for social studies on John Rutledge and none of the places I have been going to have his religion. So...what's his religion?
--71.50.213.145 15:47, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  ..... 

message: Is there a citation for the bit about him eating gavels? If not, how can this be in the entry?
Response: That was in America the Book by Jon Stewart and was a joke. It has been edited out and whoever wrote that in the article either wasn't aware it was a joke or thought that they were funny.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.198.134.176 (talk) 22:11, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eating habits 

message: As Chief Justice, he was insane: John Adams explained that the Senate feared his "accelerated and increased ... Disorder of the Mind."[Laboratory of Justice, The Supreme Court's 200 Year Struggle to Integrate Science and the Law, by David L. Faigman, First edition, 2004, p. 34; Smith, Republic of Letters, 501] due to severe depression of his wife's death. --Florentino floro (talk) 06:08, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Mental illness

message: The infobox said that Rutledge's recess appointment ended on December 15, 1795, but that is incorrect. It is the date the Senate rejected his appointment, but under Article II Section 2 a recess appointment ends at the expiry of the next session, which was June 1, 1796 (see 4th United States Congress#Dates of sessions). This article (see "Later years") states that he left office on December 28 (and gives a source), so he must have resigned -- so I have amended the date to December 28. Richard75 (talk) 19:15, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  End of term as Chief Justice 

message: "However, the fort’s walls were made out of soft palmetto palm trees, and the British cannonballs simply sank into the logs without doing any damage. Some bounced off the sponge logs and bounced back hitting the very British ships that fired them." A cannonball can be fired from offshore, hit a palmetto log and rebound the same distance from which it was fired?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.67.218.195 (talk) 20:09, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Doesn't this defy the laws of science? 

message: This article has references and the exclusion of Find a Grave, that is considered unreliable as a reference, will not hinder the article nor deprive it of any pertinent information. Otr500 (talk) 08:00, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a source at least for a picture and the location of the gravesite ONLY.  It would seem that is the essential function of Find a Grave, and by and large they do it quite well.  It was NOT being used for any other purpose (although they did have an OK article on John Rutledge).  I also put it back as an external link.  This whole "unreliability because it is a wiki" argument is ironic considering where we are debating it.  In any event, it is essentially cumulative (except for the picture).   7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:29, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

text: This is an old story.  The fact is that you have bowdlerized the discussion, and ignore the fact that where Justice Rutledge is buried is corroborated by good sources.  Find a Grave is a good sourcee for the location and pictures of a gravesite.  It is routinely used in Wikipedia, and the discussions on this issue so reflect.  You have chosen to disregard that and the limited usage.   There is no consensus, and you -- gentle editor -- are not the arbiter, nor does ipse dixit apply.  Show all of us where this Find a Grave article is unreliable, and stop youir sloganeering   7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:00, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I had missed your edit. I would only respectfully suggest that I was not maligning you or your work as an editor. I understand your principled position, and I continue to recognize WP:civil as being a mutual obligation. Best regards.  7&6=thirteen (☎) 12:30, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: I missed that Find a Grave was being added back as a reference. IMBD is considered an unreliable source even though it has certain managerial editorial control that Find a Grave lacks. The statement, " This whole "unreliability because it is a wiki" argument is ironic considering where we are debating it. ", has nothing to do with any wiki arguement concerning references. Find a Grave is under discussion as an external link, but those discussions aside, Find a Grave fails:
*1)-WP:SOURCES; Articles should be based on reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. 
*2)- WP:NOTRELIABLE; Questionable sources are those with a poor reputation for checking the facts, or with no editorial oversight.
*3)- WP:SELFPUBLISH; Find a Grave is user edited and uses anonymous or pseudonymous editors.
*4)- WP:SPS]; This includes any website whose content is largely user-generated, including the Internet Movie Database, Cracked.com, CBDB.com, and so forth, with the exception of material on such sites that is labeled as originating from credentialed members of the sites' editorial staff, rather than users. Find a Grave is not currently specifically named as is IMBd but falls under "and so forth" but we can (and probably will) seek inclusion by name as it may be necessary for clarification.
*Add to this the fact of:
*5)- WP:CHALLENGE; This policy requires that all quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged be attributed to a reliable published source using an inline citation.
*6)- WP:BURDEN; The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material. Any material lacking a reliable source directly supporting it may be removed.
The use of Find a Grave as an external link is acceptable but not as a source or reference. While I understand, "This is a source at least for a picture and the location of the gravesite ONLY", the fact can not be ignored that it is considered unreliable, by policy and guidelines. Find a Grave is even considered unreliable by some proponents of the Find a Grave project, other editors, as well as the Find a Grave project page, Wikipedia:Find-A-Grave famous people#When adding information to articles, that states, " Find-A-Grave is not considered a reliable source ", as well as, " If you add facts from Find-A-Grave into the article, add Find-A-Grave as an external link, not a source,...."
I challenged the reliability of the reference that I removed. It is the burden of an editor that restores such material to provide proof of reliability and Find a Grave clearly fails numbers 1 through 4 above. I am removing this reference again and it can be added back and we can seek dispute resolution, or we can bring this to WP:Reliable sources/Noticeboard for consensus, but I feel I have provided clear and ample supported reasoning for the removal as a reference. It should be noted that the information is not lost as it was duplicated in the external links and is still included. Otr500 (talk) 08:27, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: This is an old story.  The fact is that you have bowdlerized the discussion, and ignore the fact that where Justice Rutledge is buried is corroborated by good sources.  Find a Grave is a good sourcee for the location and pictures of a gravesite.  It is routinely used in Wikipedia, and the discussions on this issue so reflect.  You have chosen to disregard that and the limited usage.   There is no consensus, and you -- gentle editor -- are not the arbiter, nor does ipse dixit apply.  Show all of us where this Find a Grave article is unreliable, and stop youir sloganeering   7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:00, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I had missed your edit. I would only respectfully suggest that I was not maligning you or your work as an editor. I understand your principled position, and I continue to recognize WP:civil as being a mutual obligation. Best regards.  7&6=thirteen (☎) 12:30, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Remove reverted reference 

message: I've reverted a recent edit to the info box.  While it is true that at the time Rutledge was Chief Justice, the position was called "Chief Justice of the Supreme Court", that position was re-named after the Civil War to "Chief Justice of the United States" by Congress (the Constitution makes no direct mention of what the title should be, other than "chief justice").  Since the info box is listing him as the second in a long line of what are currently called Chief Justice of the United States, and since Jay, Ellsworth, Marshall, and Taney all have info boxes conforming to the idea of calling these people by the current title, I've modified the info box accordingly.  I have, however, left the text in the first paragraph alone; it's not clear that that correctly states the title at the time, but it is at least clear in its meaning.  Doug (talk) 00:55, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chief Justice of ... ? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Apparently Rutledge was the first governor under the first SC constitution under the U.S. Constitution but 31st governor going back through colonial times.  I changed the text of the article to "first" after someone else made the same change in the inbox.  I don't really much care which is used but the article should be consistent and it sould be made clear in the article how the numbering is determined. Tom (North Shoreman) (talk) 01:34, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  First or 31st

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on John Rutledge. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20091202044045/http://www.supremecourthistory.org/history/supremecourthistory_history_chief_002rutledge.htm to http://www.supremecourthistory.org/history/supremecourthistory_history_chief_002rutledge.htm
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Despite having many other responsibilities, and preferring to work on Virginia articles, I added this to the infobox after hearing it on an audiobook (based on a book by a recently deceased U.S.Supreme Court justice), and confirming it with both the Brittanica.com article about this man, and the admittedly grossly incomplete list of chief justices of South Carolina. I noticed that the numbering in the infobox was odd, but do not have the time to check if someone removed this material. BTW, the backward list of Chief Justices of the South Carolina Supreme Court only does back to John Belton O'Neall who began serving shortly before the American Civil War and died in 1863 (during the conflict--the article is extremely sketchy), the wikipedia's list of South Carolina supreme court justices says (and is) sketchy. I added Aedenus Burke as his successor because that man's term as Chief Justice in South Carolina began in 1796, the year after this man began his ill-starred term on the U.S. Supreme Court, and noted that the other two men currently on that list from the 1790s have articles stating that they were only associate justices on that court. I suspect that court was actually named the Court of Appeals, as in Virginia of that day, and one of those articles has a mistaken link to the South Carolina Court of Appeals, which as in Virginia of the present day, is an intermediate appellate court, not that state's highest court. Anyhow,this man's biography is not available in the library where I'm writing right now (which is closing in 5 minutes), and I don't know when I'll be able to look at it.Jweaver28 (talk) Jweaver28 (talk) 00:55, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chief Justice of South Carolina