Talk:White people in Zimbabwe

message: Really, guys? Whites in Zimbabwe? You really wrote an entire article about it? With photos of white people from Zimbabwe? Yikes.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.112.252.166 (talk) 02:50, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Usefulness to the World

message: Beneaththelandslide. You have described the following item as "biased, sob story, rubbish" and deleted it from the main article:
QUOTE
I was the first black girl at an all white school in Zimbabwe in 1979.    
I was seven years old and very afraid. One of my little classmates chose to spit in my face for being a kaffir. That affected me terribly and sent me on my nationalistic journey.    
    
"Africa for Africans," I said to anyone who cared to listen.   
    
When, the following year on November 11 (a) the whole school sang the Rhodesian national anthem (b), which incidentally I didn't know because as a black child I had never learnt it, I realised that white people will never change and they had to leave our country.    
   
Tambu – Zimbabwean (reported by BBC)   
    
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/witness/march/2/newsid_3497000/3497239.stm   
    
notes :   
(a) anniversary of UDI    
(b) “Rise O Voices of Rhodesia” (sung to Beethoven’s ‘Ode to Joy’) 
UNQUOTE
Why do you feel this is "biased, sob-story, rubbish"?. Do you not feel that the disappearance of whites from Zimbabwe requires an explanation?. This is a friendly enquiry. I am interested to hear your views. Bob BScar23625 13:43, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Because it is biased sob-story rubbish. Someone could just as easily find a little crying girl from another colour/ethnic group/political persuasion and use their tears as political leverage. It's also interesting that out of all the quotes both praising/attacking various leaders/stances/regimes you choose to use that particular one. -   Gt 13:57, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

text: I have no intention of entering into a discussion. -   Gt 15:51, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extinction of white Rhodesians as a national community 

message: While those who grew up in what was then called Rhodesia may regard themselves as Rhodesians, those whites who grew up in post-independence Zimbabwe regard themselves as Zimbabweans. 
Whatever their dislike of Mugabe, they are intelligent enough to realise that Rhodesia ain't coming back. They're from 'Zim'.
Quiensabe 20 January 2006 06:02 UTC
What you say is true. But the fact is that most white Rhodesians/Zimbabweans are now expatriates and my impression is that they generally call themselves Rhodesians. Bob BScar23625 09:19, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Still Rhodesians? 

message: Martey. You have deleted the following section of text.
"But it has been suggested that whites were a little too eager to involve themselves in opposition politics, given the sensitive history of whites in the country. Ethnic minorities are often wise to keep a low profile in their host countries."
An appreciation of events surrounding the MDC and the 2000 election is essential to give any sense of the recent history of whites in Zimbabwe. There is no element of opinion in the statement. So, I will reword that section of text and re-insert it. Unless you have any comments. Bob BScar23625 08:21, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  the 2000 election and white participation in the MDC 

message: David. You have corrected the reported number from 6 to 4. Are you sure that is right?. Check out Timothy Stamps  Bob BScar23625 05:36, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The reference in the text is to the number of white MPs elected - and see Zimbabwe parliamentary elections, 2000 for the full election results. Timothy Stamps evidently held one of the places in the Parliament that was appointed by the President. David | Talk 21:53, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Hmm. Depending on outside events I should be able on Friday to go up to Colindale and get the 1995 election results from the Zimbabwe Herald. Incidentally, do you happen to know anywhere in Britain which has the archive of the Sunday Mail? I need a 1970 edition which is not in Colindale. The only place I have found it so far is the Rhodes House Library in Oxford. David | Talk 19:28, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  White MPs in the 2000-2005 Parliament 

message: This needs a more thorough review but is doing pretty well in most respects. However, at present, virtually every single image copyright information is wrong or seriously dodgy.
The fact that something is a postcard photo does emphatically not mean that the photographer released all rights, even if it is hard to identify the photographer.
Just because something has a boiler template for fair use doesn't mean there's no need to write a fair use rationale too. Read the templates, at the bottom they ask for a fair use rationales.
All the images, and especially "fair use" ones, should have sources. Currently not all do.
Some of the items tagged as "political posters or leaflets" really don't look like they are.
Some of the fair use rationale reasoning is plain weird. For instance, the fact that something is a newspaper photo is an indication weighing against, not in favor of,  fair use - newspapers pay a lot of money for their photographs, and they do have continuing value in archives because they are often brought out as stock photos if that person gets into the news again.
Above all, it's worth thinking carefully about the degree to which fair use images are being used at all in article like this. The government material is a very strong case - the idealized image of "Rhodesian life" that was being sold to white immigrants is a key point of this article. It seems likely to me that a fair use claim for a picture of an individual is much stronger on their own article page than on a page like this. Are there really no alternative free images of any white Zimbabweans? TheGrappler 01:57, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good article nom on hold 

message: This article uses a number of unfree images for which it claims fair use, and while the majority of these claims seem to be well-grounded, I believe that :Image:ZBWE1.jpg may not qualify. This photograph of a mother and child is used to illustrate generic white Zimbabweans, and while it is true that its use here is unlikely to cause the copyright holder(s) to lose much money, it would not be difficult to replace it with a free photo. After all, there are lots of white Zimbabweans, and pretty much any old shot will do. On the other hand, the other photos in this article would be much harder to replace; it's a lot harder to get a free shot of a famous white Zimbabwean, and the photo from the government brochure is still harder to replace. I've removed the image, and have posted a message at User:Etienne.navarro's talk page, as he's the only wikipedian listed as being from Zimbabwe -- perhaps he knows some white Zimbabweans. --Zantastik talk 17:20, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyright 

message: As a non-specialist reader of this subject, the following is my assesment, per WP:WIAGA:
1. It is well written.
:(a) compelling prose and comprehensible to non-specialist readers: weak passes
::* The story is not compelling for a non-specialist reader. Perhaps because of some unexplained terms and abbreviations in the article that confuses me. Please see below.
::* There are many specific Zimbabwean knowledge about politics and others that are not explained briefly. 
:(b) follows logical structure and good lead section:
::* Lead section does not conform WP:LS, that it does not give a context in the first line.
::* There is a section Aftermath at the end. What kind of aftermath?
:(c) follows the Wikipedia Manual of Style: weak passes
::* Regarding style of the reference list (see 2.b below).
:(d) technical jargons: needs improvement
::* This statement: "It never gained full Dominion status,..." in the lead section, but nowhere in the article explain about Dominion status.
::* Some unexplained terms/abbreviations: BSAC, ESAP, and others.
2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
:(a) it provides references: weak passes
::* The second paragraph of the lead section contains claims and facts without its source.
:(b) inline citations is required: weak passes
::* Please read again WP:CITE regarding citation style, as references list is unreadable for me.
::* The first line has opinion statement: "The first whites of Zimbabwe are thought ....". Thought by whom? Citation is needed here.
:(c) reliable sources: weak passes
::* Personal website (ref #6) and mail (ref #18) cannot be used as reliable source.
:(d) no original research: passes
3. It is broad in its coverage.
:(a) all major aspects: failed
::* I miss the story about relationship with other races, esp. african Zimbabwean. 
::* There was a big headline news months ago about eviction of white Zimbabwean farmer and controversial plan from Mugabe to evict whites from Zimbabwe. Where is it in the article?
::* Due to that events, it must be a some historical background about this bad relationship, but I miss that in the article.
:(b) stays focus & no non-notable trivia: passes
4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
:(a) viewpoints are represented fairly and without bias: failed
::* Controversies about whites in Zimbabwe from other races that lead to white farmer eviction is missing here.
::* It is clearly visible that this article has a bias view, written only from white Zimbabwean perspective.
:(b) all significant points of view are fairly presented: failed
::* This is related with 3.a. Views from other races about whites in Zimbabwe are not presented in this article.
5. It is stable (no edit wars ongoing): passes
6. It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.
:(a) proper tags and descriptive captions: failed
::* This is a major problem in this article, because almost all images are copyrighted and not properly tagged.
::* Copyrighted images without fair use rationale: :Image:Wright07s.jpg, :Image:ZBWE2.jpg, :Image:Bennett300.jpg and :Image:Trudy.jpg
::* Copyrighted images with not-enough rationale to be used in Wikipedia: :Image:Chelsy2.JPG, :Image:BillyR.jpg and :Image:Bredenkamp.JPG. The reasons are that all of those images are pictures of living person that can be replaced easily to illustrate the subject, i.e. white Zimbabwean. Per WP:FAIR:
:(b) a lack of images: passes
Due to the above matters, hence I failed this article for GA. When those are solved, this article can be renominated again. — Indon (reply) — 16:28, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Failed GA 

message: I feel that the earlier objections have been reasonably addressed, and have now renominated the article as a GA candidate. Bob BScar23625 15:56, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Renomination for GA status

message: There are lots of dubious statements in this article. One of the most prominent on a quick read is "White Zimbabweans have brought a pioneering spirit to the nation and have contributed to economic life at several levels" - there are two sources quoted for this statement, but they don't appear to justify presenting it as objective fact. Can someone justify, perhaps whoever inserted it if they are around?
Generally the article very clearly is saying, explicity and subliminally, to the reader: "whites made this country and continue to do so". I don't like it because it isn't verifiable fact (I will stay away from going further...) --SandyDancer 19:36, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you really think its good to refer to people as "pioneering" when you mean "exploitative"? I just fail to see why such tongue in cheek euphemism is appropriate. Fine, don't defame people - but within the limits what is lawful, state the verified facts. --SandyDancer 10:44, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think SandyDancer has a valid point here. Why not use "exploitative" ? Wizzy…☎ 15:20, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Lots of dubious statements

message: Good work! I appreciate the hard work put into this article. I hope you have success if you eventually go for Featured Article.
* --Ling.Nut 13:56, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[WP:GA|Good Article]] nomination Passed 

message: Link is already disabled but article remains online
ZIMBABWE: Poor whites hit hard times
IWPR - Published by SysOp -  01-16-2007
Jim Rose, who was struck and killed a few weeks ago by a motorist while riding on his bicycle to Harare from his home in Chitungwiza 30 kilometres away, was considered rather odd by the standards of modern Zimbabwe.
A white man who said he was born in New York, he was a retired civil engineer who fifteen years ago married Mavis, a black woman. Their family home is in a working-class residential area called Unit L in Chitungwiza.
His frail looks belied an inner strength that enabled him to cycle an average 60 kilometres daily from Chitungwiza to Harare, and back, and also to get used to living in a poor neighbourhood often characterised by flowing raw sewage. The people of Chitungwiza grew to embrace him as their own and nicknamed him “Murewa”, an affectionate moniker given without prejudice to white people who are comfortable living among blacks.
“Rhodies” - as whites who long for the old pre-Zimbabwe days of white-ruled Rhodesia are known - called such white people “niggerboeties” [nigger lovers] and despised them.
Jim was seen putting on the same colour of clothing every day. His widow Mavis told IWPR her husband’s wardrobe had more than ten sets of identical clothes. “He just felt that those were the type of clothes suited to him and his community,” she said.
Jim was part of a new group of people in President Robert Mugabe’s Zimbabwe informally classified as “poor whites”.
A University of Zimbabwe sociologist, who preferred not to be named, told IWPR, “In Rhodesia whites generally were a privileged class. It was impossible to see a poor white person because of a philosophy of ‘esprit de corps’. If one white man hit hard times the others would come to the rescue. They had an elaborate set of homes for all sorts of people where the poor ones were either hidden or rehabilitated.
“Since independence this system has broken down, firstly because the new order saw it as discriminatory but, secondly, because the rich whites became fewer and fewer as they either emigrated or saw their fortunes wane as the Zimbabwean economy began to falter in the 1990s.”
The number of poor whites began to increase at the turn of the millennium, mainly with the advent of Mugabe’s land reform programme, in which vast swathes of commercial agricultural land were confiscated from white farmers.
“Most of the poor whites we are seeing on the streets of Harare used to live on farms where they were employed, [largely] to supervise black labour,” said the sociologist. “Most of them are of limited education and therefore cannot stand on their own. So when the white commercial farmers who supported them were chucked off the farms these white guys found themselves destitute.”
Indications are that there are more poor whites than are generally evident on the streets. “Most of them are fiercely proud and would rather remain destitute in their homes than be seen on the streets,” continued the sociologist. But at a shopping centre in Eastlea, just outside Harare’s central business district, the evidence is stark. Five destitute white men, aged between thirty and sixty, have thrown pride and caution to the wind and beg openly. They marshal cars into parking bays and offer to clean and guard them while the owners do their shopping. The shoppers are mostly well-to-do black people and the poor whites do not seem to mind begging from blacks.
One shopper told IWPR how an elderly white woman approached him asking for money. “She said her husband, a pensioner, had a serious back pain which needed urgent medication but they could not afford it on his pension,” according to the shopper, who said he was unable to guess whether this was a genuine case of need or whether the woman was trying to con him. He however gave her some money and she moved on to another customer to beg more money. “She looked like somebody with an alcohol problem and I feared the money I gave was not for her husband’s medication,” said the man.
Zimbabwean pensioners of all races are the hardest hit by the seven-year-long economic recession. Their lives’ work has been eaten away by the country’s astronomical inflation, which in the early days of 2007 reached a record level of 1,281 per cent, by far the highest in the world. Most pensioners live on less than 10,000 Zimbabwe dollars a month [4 US dollars at the almost universally-used black market rate, which reflects realistically the true value of Zimbabwe’s currency] - enough to buy only ten loaves of bread. For all intents and purposes, pensioners are living at the extreme ranges of penury.
But do poor whites form a special class that needs special attention?
“It’s a question that demands a lot of sober thought,” said a veteran black journalist in Harare, who asked not to be named. “I think the answer is ‘yes’, but then there are a lot of other poor people who need attention. In Arcadia, for example, the Coloured (mixed race) community is falling apart because of grinding poverty. You should see how the whole community is being destroyed by cheap alcohol which has become their only refuge from poverty.”
Arcadia is a district in southern Harare that was designated the district for Coloured people to live during the era of white rule. It has remained a traditional Coloured suburb. The community was considered a buffer between supremacist whites and the black majority, to the extent that they enjoyed more privileges than their black mothers, cousins, aunts and uncles - but fewer opportunities than their white forebears.
“Every civilised country should have a sort of safety net for its poor, regardless of who they are,” the Harare journalist told IWPR. “But Robert Mugabe has created a strong anti-white sentiment that is loudly-hailed everyday in the public media to the point where, in the end, it seems the only poor people are black.”
He said that non-governmental organisations also tended to pander to the myth, continuing, “They think food aid should only be for blacks in rural areas or underprivileged black communities in working class suburbs. But we have a huge crisis in predominantly Coloured areas and areas formerly preserves of the white population.”
He argued that in Zimbabwe’s current dire situation black people were generally less vulnerable and were marginally better off than their white and Coloured fellow countrymen. “First,” he said, “most blacks have two homes, one in the urban areas and the other in the rural areas. The two supplement each other. Hence when hard times hit they can send some family members back home to the countryside, and if hard times hit the rural areas those in the cities will always chip in with various forms of help.”
He said the African extended family system remained invaluable for the black population, even in Zimbabwe’s unusually disastrous context - unlike the situation in the more individualistic white and Coloured communities. Jim Rose, the white American, must have found the extended family a comfort and solace throughout the years he lived in the black community of Chitungwiza.
The journalist added, “I think non-government organisations should begin focusing on the poor whites and Coloureds. Otherwise if we allow these two groups to perish from hunger and poverty, what would be the difference between that and ethnic cleansing?”
Benedict Unendoro is the pseudonym of an IWPR contributor in Zimbabwe.
Oprahtopics. Your additions to the article are taken almost verbatim from the above - which is a published source. The Wikipedia community tends to frown on this sort of thing. Perhaps you might take another look at your recent contributions?. As an aside, I have repaired the link to your source website. best wishes. Bob BScar23625 15:49, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Poor Whites reported by [[Mopane]] Tree

message: Question about this line:
Whatever the merits of this situation, as time passed it became increasingly unwelcome to the majority ethnic groups within Zimbabwe and also to wide sections of international opinion.
What "merits" to what was essentially apartheid? If no merits, then why is the introductory clause necessary? Is it surprising that it "became increasingly unwelcome" to other ethnic groups to be systematically discriminated against?  This seems to me like a thinly veiled opinion that the old system of racial discrimination was better.  In no way is this comment by me an endorsement of the current political regime, but I feel the above-quoted statement is biased and should be rewritten.J P M7791 (talk) 17:51, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  What merits? 

message: As part of the WikiProject Good Articles, we're doing sweeps to go over all of the current GAs and see if they still meet the GA criteria. I'm specifically going over all of the "Culture and Society" articles. I believe the article currently meets the majority of the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. However, in reviewing the article, I have found there are some issues that need to be addressed. I have made minor corrections and have included several points below that need to be addressed for the article to remain a GA. Please address them within seven days and the article will maintain its GA status. If progress is being made and issues are addressed, the article will remain listed as a Good article. Otherwise, it may be delisted. If improved after it has been delisted, it may be nominated at WP:GAN. If you disagree with any of the issues, leave a comment after the specific issue and I'll be happy to discuss/agree with you. To keep tabs on your progress so far, either strike through the completed tasks or put checks next to them.
Needs inline citations:
#"Also, the white farming community never amounted to more than around 8% of the total white population and this proportion fell steadily after 1945 up to independence in 1980."
#:see Selby thesis - figure 1.6, page 63. As a part of the total white population the proportion of commercial farmers peaked at 8% in 1920 then gradually fell back to 3% in 1980. It then rose again to 7% in 2000 before falling back to 2% today. Bob BScar23625 (talk) 16:13, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I struck through the one completed issue so far. I will leave the article on hold for another week so the rest of the issues can be addressed. Let me know if you have any questions. Happy editing! --Nehrams2020 (talk) 05:59, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I see that progress is being made in improving the articles, but if addressing the issues on this page, please be sure to strike through the issues so I can get an update on your progress. If the issues can't be addressed, please contact me on my talk page and I'll delist it for now. Otherwise, I'll re-review the article again in a week. Happy editing! --Nehrams2020 (talk) 02:40, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: GA Sweeps Review: On Hold

message: I believe the article currently meets the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. I have removed the unsourced statements from the article, which can be readded once sources are found. The list of these statements are the ones in the above "needs inline citations" section. Continue to improve the article making sure all new information is properly sourced and neutral. It would also be beneficial to go through the article and update all of the access dates of the online inline citations and fix any dead links. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. I have updated the article history to reflect this review. Happy editing! --Nehrams2020 (talk) 06:34, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: GA Sweeps Review: Pass

message: I beleive the article meets GA criteria, and was pleasantly surprised by its candid tone. Many overseas white Rhodesians I have met prior to the mid 90s paint a picture of unrelieved gloom, doom and nostalgia. For some, this might very well be true, and the late 1990s and beyond could well illustrate the theme, but the candid information presented showing remaining, indeed increasing prosperity for many whites in some instances prior to that, adds much needed corrective balance. At the same time the article refuses to engage in all too easy white-bashing. It fully acknowledges the historical injustices of the land issue but the quote: "White farmers would respond to claims that they owned "70% of the best arable land" by stating that what they actually owned was "70% of the best developed arable land" — and the two are entirely different things.[37]" shows the economic facts on the other side of the coin. This candid approach serves the article well, and strengthens its sense of balance. The case of white farmer Henry Meade who publicly opposed the eviction of his black neighbor is also worth documenting. Other comments if an FA upgrade is contemplated:
#Perhaps a few more books might be added to sources. The Selby thesis, and newspaper articles are relied on heavily, but are there no credible books also on the subject? Perhaps a few should be listed in a "Sources" type section. Still, the Selby thesis is available online for review by anyone, adding to the article's credibility. 
#I think though that there should be at least one full citation for the thesis: dates, university, author, etc rather than just "Selby Thesis" to begin the reference list. One cannot tell what it is without opening up the online PDF.
#Having looked at said thesis, it notes that the whites were not a monolithic bloc, but showed important social divisions, such as the Boer-derived population. No doubt such a population brought a number of racial, political, social and other attitudes with them. Some mention at least should be made of such variations among the whites.
All in all, a fair bill on the topic. Majubahill (talk) 17:03, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: May need a few other book sources, full selby citation and more on internal white divisions

message: Guys. I am being assailed by the image police on this one. The owner of the image (Senator David Coltart) has given specific permission for the image to be used. Even so, I am confronted with threats. Perhaps some of you would care to chip in on this?. See the image Discussion page. I realise that I may be coming close to a breach of the canvassing rule here, but I feel the situation justifies it. Bob BScar23625 (talk) 13:08, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[:Image:Coltart1.jpg]] 

message: I've removed this as of tangental relevance to the subject of the article:
:The director of New Zealand's Cathay Pacific Italian Film Festival is White Zimbabwean Tony Lambert, who left Rhodesia at 17 during the Rhodesian Bush War New Zealand Herald 20 September 2008. The Italian Film Festival is held across the world. It presents the most contemporary films of Italian cinema and these are decided upon by the Italian embassy, festival organisers and sponsors Italian Film Festival 2008. In New Zealand it is both the largest single cultural film event as well as the most significant Italian cultural event. The National Business Review 26 August 2008
Well sourced, but this article isn't for a compendium of everything done by people who have left the country. BrainyBabe (talk) 12:01, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Italian culture in New Zealand 

message: The internet inline citations used in this article are improperly formatted. Internet citations require at the very least information on the title, publisher and last access date of any webpages used. If the source is a news article then the date of publication and the author are also important. This information is useful because it allows a reader to a) rapidly identify a source's origin b) ascertain the reliability of that source and c) find other copies of the source should the website that hosts it become unavaliable for any reason. It may also in some circumstances aid in determining the existance or status of potential copyright infringments. Finally, it looks much tidier, making the article appear more professional. There are various ways in which this information can be represented in the citation, listed at length at Wikipedia:Citing sources. The simplest way of doing this is in the following format:
 
As an example:
* 
which looks like:
*
If any information is unknown then simply omit it, but title, publisher and last access dates are always required. I strongly recommend that all internet inline references in this article be formatted properly as soon as possible. If you have any further questions please contact me and as mentioned above, more information on this issue can be found at Wikipedia:Citing sources. Regards--Jackyd101 (talk) 16:58, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations 

message: The article first states that whites are extremely influential in the Zimbabwean economy. And then, the article goes on to say that there is "debate" about whether there is a link between white emigration and Zimbabwean economic decline. 
The article contradicts itself for "political correctness purposes". I am taking that statement out.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.133.205.143 (talk) 19:48, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Economic decline and white emigration? 

message: I came upon this wiki in an attempt to find out how many Rhodesians (of European descent and otherwise) have been killed and/or became refugees since the former Rhodesia was turned, through military violence, and International economic coersion, into the present black African administered State known as Zimbabwe.
Instead of finding any data relavent to my inquiry I came upon this wiki. A wiki inordinately packed with a historically revisionist "framing" of content, and a distinct bias towards black Africans of Bantu (West African descent) at the "expense" of white Africans of European descent.
Some examples of historical revisionist framing are as follows:
paragraph 2 "in most European colonies in Africa and Asia, white immigrants tool a privileged postition in many areas of society.  I postulate this is a revisionist and biased view point due to the fact it discounts the reality that the society some white immigrants had privilieged positions in was in fact an immigrant society, one which they brought with them to Africa from Europe.  Furthermore, this society itself contained a distinct class stratification within it.  A stratification in which black Africans tended to find themselves on the "lower rungs" so to speak when the same black Africans attemted to engage and join this newly introduced social system (society).  In no way shape or form is it presented in the wiki, other than the original military victories of the British South Africa Company over local black African immigrants from West Africa, either how or why other black Africans choose to engage this European imported social system or why they choose to live within it, since they had their own social systems, with their own class structures and rules in which to engage and live in (perhaps the grass was greener, so to speak?).
Terrimechanist (talk) 02:40, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you! --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 09:57, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

text: You think a statement that whites held a "privileged postition" [sic] in colonial society is revisionist!? Or even more laughably, biased? Is the earth flat too? Can I perhaps point you in the direction of the Zimbabwe article, and you can start to read up on land dispossession and how these underprivileged colonists managed to get control of almost all the land. Greenman (talk) 13:03, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: But this isn't about colonial society; Zimbabwe hasn't been a colony for a long time, yet violence and discrimination against whites persist. I agree with Terrimechanist's appraisal, and that's part of why I put this article up for GAR, eventually delisting it because nothing was done. Tezero (talk) 19:37, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extremely biased, revisionist wiki (or two wrongs don't make a right) 

message: I think the lead needs to start with some current information... Perhaps the info on numbers of whites in Zimbabwe and a bit more about their current status.  It can then go on to give a summary of the history as it currently does.  Yaris678 (talk) 21:45, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Current information in the lead 

message: I strongly believe this article needs a paragraph about the farm murders during re-posession. there's plenty references available and pictures.
Anyone interested?
--TaraWelles (talk) 09:16, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Farm murders / attacks 

message: "Really, guys? Whites in Zimbabwe? You really wrote an entire article about it? With photos of white people from Zimbabwe? Yikes." 
The above statement from 2008 just about sums it up..   
Elements of this article-entry belong either in History of Zimbabwe or Demographics of Zimbabwe 
Low and behold that we have a White South African;
So I guess Apartheid is alive and well in Wikipedia..  this is too funny to be true.
Merging of pages anyone?
--Star Log, Lfrankblam, Kirk Out (talk) 04:46, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I presume you also want to merge African American into History of the United States or Demographics of the United States to be consistent? —  Cliftonian (talk)  07:05, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: - African Americans 13% of the US population; vs .2% of the Zimbabwe population at best, apartheid it is! --Star Log, Lfrankblam, Kirk Out (talk) 03:59, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The white population was historically much higher, around 5–6% of the population in the 1960s; see here for detailed figures and proportions from 1901 to 1969. Even if this were not the case the very small size of the white minority today does not make it "apartheid" to have an article about it. Your assertion is ridiculous. —  Cliftonian (talk)  04:42, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  2008 Talk Page Redux! Apartheid on Wikipedia 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on White people in Zimbabwe. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Attempted to fix sourcing for http://www.zimstat.co.zw/dmdocuments/Census/CensusResults2012/National_Report.pdf
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Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 16:11, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Confirmed that PDF was correctly substituted with archived version. Thanks, Cyberbot II. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 00:33, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The country was never accepted internationally as Rhodesia.  Should a wiki article use it as if it were legitimate?   "the southern African country Zimbabwe (formerly Rhodesia and Southern Rhodesia before that)"  What did the British and everyone else call it after UDI?--Richardson mcphillips (talk) 21:07, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course it was called Rhodesia. Where did you get the idea that it wasn't? Reliable sources, please. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 22:15, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  "formerly Rhodesia" 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on White people in Zimbabwe. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070615023739/http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf to http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070615023739/http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf to http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070615023739/http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf to http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070615023739/http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf to http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070615023739/http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf to http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070615023739/http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf to http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070615023739/http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf to http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070615023739/http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf to http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070615023739/http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf to http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070615023739/http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf to http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070615023739/http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf to http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070615023739/http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf to http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070615023739/http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf to http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070615023739/http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf to http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070615023739/http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf to http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070615023739/http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf to http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070615023739/http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf to http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080701125749/http://www.news24.com:80/News24/Africa/Zimbabwe/0,,2-11-1662_2349542,00.html to http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/Zimbabwe/0,,2-11-1662_2349542,00.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070615023739/http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf to http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120207125507/http://www.zwnews.com/issuefull.cfm?ArticleID=10776 to http://www.zwnews.com/issuefull.cfm?ArticleID=10776
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110612015430/http://www.thestage.co.uk/features/feature.php/20883/working-to-bring-hope-harare-international to http://www.thestage.co.uk/features/feature.php/20883/working-to-bring-hope-harare-international
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110208171302/http://www.bgtw.org/bgtw-announces-britains-top-travel-writers-photographers-2010.html to http://www.bgtw.org/bgtw-announces-britains-top-travel-writers-photographers-2010.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070510123208/http://msupress.msu.edu:80/bookTemplate.php?bookID=2954 to http://msupress.msu.edu/bookTemplate.php?bookID=2954
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100330170323/http://www.orangeprize.co.uk:80/show/feature/orange-lauren-liebenberg to http://www.orangeprize.co.uk/show/feature/orange-lauren-liebenberg
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090902233726/http://www.chicagotribune.com:80/topic/nyc-interpreter,0,4909413.story to http://www.chicagotribune.com/topic/nyc-interpreter,0,4909413.story
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070115023657/http://www.news24.com:80/News24/Africa/Zimbabwe/0,9294,2-11-1662_2053821,00.html to http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/Zimbabwe/0,9294,2-11-1662_2053821,00.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120206015906/http://www.newzimbabwe.com:80/pages/quit12.14272.html to http://www.newzimbabwe.com/pages/quit12.14272.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20131003233057/http://www.newzimbabwe.com:80/pages/SENATE212.14368.HTML to http://www.newzimbabwe.com/pages/senate212.14368.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110927070303/http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2004/07/whites_flee_zim.php to http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2004/07/whites_flee_zim.php
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100923161530/http://www.thezimbabwean.co.uk:80/index.php?option=com_content to http://www.thezimbabwean.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=12377:morgan-won-secret-police-docs&catid=31:top%20zimbabwe%20stories&Itemid=66
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20081123091414/http://www.maryellenmark.com/text/magazines/london_sunday_times/904G-000-005.html to http://www.maryellenmark.com/text/magazines/london_sunday_times/904G-000-005.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070615023739/http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf to http://www.zwnews.com/3-Main%20Body.pdf
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 12:23, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on White people in Zimbabwe. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20130222075611/http://www.dailynews.co.zw:80/index.php/sport/36-sports/6390-zims-crown-prince-of-soccer.html to http://www.dailynews.co.zw/index.php/sport/36-sports/6390-zims-crown-prince-of-soccer.html
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20121008211309/http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/07/21/africa/AF-Zimbabwe-Glance.php to http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/07/21/africa/AF-Zimbabwe-Glance.php
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20080421212327/http://iafrica.com:80/news/specialreport/zimbabwe/463523.htm to http://iafrica.com/news/specialreport/zimbabwe/463523.htm
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20110524225816/http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/03/06/ap/africa/main4848280.shtml to http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/03/06/ap/africa/main4848280.shtml
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 07:29, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: just to note that I have reverted the move of this article made in September 2016, and have also not carried out Christian75's requested talk page move from WP:RMTR this morning. If you look at the move request above, you'll see that the title of this article is a controversial issue, and both "White Rhodesians" and also (explicitly in some cases) "White Zimbabweans" were rejected there. If you want to pursue this further, I suggest a fresh WP:RM entry. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 11:26, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Fine with me. I just wanted the talk page to be together with the article. Thanks. Christian75 (talk) 11:38, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article rename 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 5 external links on White people in Zimbabwe. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=ZE3PM2FPNPMZVQFIQMGSFFWAVCBQWIV0?xml=%2Fnews%2F2005%2F06%2F11%2Fwdad111.xml
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=ZE3PM2FPNPMZVQFIQMGSFFWAVCBQWIV0?xml=%2Fnews%2F2005%2F06%2F11%2Fwdad111.xml
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8619492.stm
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/8594479.stm
*Replaced archive link x with https://web.archive.org/web/20171125220855/http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/24/emmerson-mnangagwa-set-sworn-new-zimbabwe-president/ on http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/24/emmerson-mnangagwa-set-sworn-new-zimbabwe-president/
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 14:02, 2 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified