Talk:Perfectionism (psychology)

message: (translated from the discussion page of the german wikipedia)
Perfectionism is not just a sickness, but also the motivation behind a good part of (societally affirmed) outstanding achievements. This, admittedly, is not a scientifically founded opinion, but based on (un)common sense (which would be worse lol). I tried researching the topic on the internet. Even though authors frequently distance themselves from the allegedly predominant positive view, it seems there are no advocates of that position to be found anywhere. Even in the newer psychological articles, which make a point of not showing perfectionism as a sheer burden, are focusing on showing situations in which the condition does *not* have horrible consequences. Nobody tries to investigate what positive results can come from this personality variable. For me, this is mainly due to personal "happiness" being the indisputed judge of all things in psychology. "Addiction is bad, thus addicted people must be unhappy" (we just have to look hard enough), "Perfectionists are unhappy, thus perfectionism has to be bad"
In the english Wikipedia (at least until recently) the article on Wittgenstein commented, that he had excelled *despite* his perfectionism. I think this to be bogus, he could only have achieved what he did *because* of his perfectionism. Someone who has the goal of maintaining an activity percieved to be rewarding, will or can not question it unless an external (usually social) unignorable event causes him to do so. As such, perfectionists can think and act beyond the normal process of cultural evolution, by being to themselves better enemies than their peers could ever be. - by putting and having to put less products on the market of ideas, because they anticipate the process of selection on a long term basis. Good art is marked by "staying good", by being created for "eternity". Such creative endeavors are not continously motivated by society (on the contrary). The motivation has to come from within the artist.
I do not doubt that perfectionism has its negative aspects and can cause people to run into dead-ends. At the same time, I find it more than likely that there are ways out of these dilemmas that do not work along the lines of giving up the personal sense of aesthetics. As long as the diagnosis is investigated only as something to be avoided and overcome, however, these ways will  not be found and documented in a findable manner.
-Ados 20:00, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Against the categorization as a sickness

message: Removed:
"Perfectionism may be a legacy of our evolutionary past. Hominids who were motivated for prolonged, incremental improvement (perfectionism) could create better tools and this would provide significant survival advantages."
While in some sense this is surely true, it is overly simplistic, and is not a [i]cause[/i] of perfectionism. It does not explain why or how this tendancy emerged, or was caused, but says only that once it was present, it remained becuase it was in some sense useful and contributed to survival.
Removed:
Perfectionists may be workaholics who cannot relax; people who reproach themselves for days after the smallest error, such as a word out of place; the person so intent on finding the perfect mate that they never settle down; the procrastinator; the finicky person; and so on. Perfectionists tend to be exceptionally sensitive to criticism. Perfectionists often exhibit some or all of the following personality traits: emotional guardedness; a need for control; fear of making mistakes or errors; thrift; need to be above criticism; tendency to be stubborn or confrontational;  and  so on. Most of these traits are used as criteria to diagnose Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder (OCPD).
As this was lacking citations and it seemed redundant considering the other material in this section. lovearobot 19:12, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed 

message: When someone doesn't even start doing somthing, or stops before finishing and doesn't resume, for the fear they will not manage to get to a good enough result, is that perfectionism or is it somthing else? --TiagoTiago (talk) 03:33, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is innaction due to the fear of not performing good enough perfectionism or somthing else? 

message: Is it still perfectionism if the person acknowledges perfection is impossible, but still feels compelled to get as close as possible to it? --TiagoTiago (talk) 03:36, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is it still perfectionism if the person acknowledges perfection is impossible, but still strives to get as close as possible to it? 

message: As a senior capstone project, students are working improve the content of selected articles.  More details are on the course page. Student first edits are due April 20, then we'll spend a week reviewing.  Final project is due by May 14, 2012.  Thanks for your encouragement and support. Greta Munger (talk) 15:18, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Student edit timeline, Spring 2012 

message: Your opening statements are good, but I think you should include a subject in the first sentence, like, "Perfectionism is a personality disposition characterized by an individual striving for flawlessness . . . "  There is also an extra "of" in the third paragraph of your definition section.  I think it may be helpful to make key terms stand out by making them bold, like the three aspects of self presentation.  It would just make your key points stand out and guide the reader toward what is important.
I thought the sections you fixed (definition and measurement) were really well written.  They were clear and interesting.  Nice job!  Sarah E. Daniels (talk) 21:30, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Peer Reviews

message: I agree with Sarah that your opening statements are well done. Your definition and measurement section are definitely easy to read and understand, and they provide a wealth of information in different aspects. I like the distinctions between different types of perfectionism and perfectionism in different realms. Quite a bit of your sentences and statements are cited which is good and shows you really did your research for the article.
I'm not sure what's going to happen to the (citation needed) sentences, but I still think you did a good job citing almost everything. The section on narcissism does seem a little strangely placed, and if you can't find research about it even after looking at what was already cited I would agree to delete it. Or if you could comment more on how perfectionism plays to an individuals personality traits in the Big Five, that would be interesting. 
Cjchaney402 (talk) 18:30, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Peer Review 2

message: I have finalized my edits to this Wikipedia page. Since the peer reviews above, I have split the Positive and Negative Aspect sections and added significant content to each. I deleted the Narcissism section, and added a short paragraph at the end of the Personality Traits section. I reformatted the entire page by adding subheadings, internal Wikipedia links, bold words, and spaces to make it more readable. Additionally, I added 3 references since the last edit, which include:
* Brett, Bill. "Are They Too Perfect?". Boston.com. Boston Globe. Retrieved 12 May 2012.
* Rice, Kenneth G.; Leever, Brooke A.; Noggle, Chad A.; Lapsley, Daniel K. (2007). "Perfectionism and depressive symptoms in early adolescence". Psychology in the Schools 44 (2): 139–156. doi:10.1002/pits.20212.
* "The Downside of Perfectionism in Sports". Sports Psychology Today. Retrieved 12 May 2012.
The references that I had added previously are:
* Cattell, H.; Mead, A. (2008), "The Sixteen Personality Factor Questionnaire (16PF)", The SAGE Handbook of Personality Theory and Assessment 2: 135–159.
*  Flett, G. L.; Hewitt, P. L. (2002). Perfectionism. Washington, DC: American Psychological Association. pp. 5-31.
* Frost, R. O.; Heimburg, R. G.; Holt, C. S.; Mattia, J. I.; Neubauer, A. A. (1993), "A comparison of two measures of perfectionism.", Personality and Individual Differences 14: 469–489.
* Hamachek, D. E. (1978), "Psychodynamics of normal and neurotic perfectionism", Psychology 15: 27–33.
* Hewitt, P. L.; Flett, G., Ediger, E. (1995). "Perfectionism traits and perfectionist self-presentation in eating disorder attitudes, characteristics, and symptoms." International Journal of Eating Disorders 18: 317-326.
* Mallinger, A.; DeWyze, J. (1992), Too Perfect: When Being in Control Gets Out of Control, New York: Fawcett Columbine.
* Rice, Kenneth G.; Ashby, Jeffrey S., Gilman, Rich (2011). "Classifying adolescent perfectionists." Psychological Assessment 23 (3): 563–577. doi:10.1037/a0022482.
* Stoeber, Joachim; Childs, Julian H. (2010). "The Assessment of Self-Oriented and Socially Prescribed Perfectionism: Subscales Make a Difference". Journal of Personality Assessment, 92 (6): 577–585. doi:10.1080/00223891.2010.513306.
* Stoeber, Joachim; Otto, Kathleen (2006). "Positive Conceptions of Perfectionism: Approaches, Evidence, Challenges". Personality and Social Psychology Review 10 (4): 295–319. doi:10.1207/s15327957pspr1004_2.
I edited some of the writing, removed unsupported generalizations, and made the prose more sophisticated. On the whole, I hope that my contributions improved this page significantly and that visitors are informed by the scholarly journals I have referenced. SarDavis (talk) 04:17, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Final Project Contribution

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thread_title: Impact of recent student edits

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Removed:
Moreover, a priori labelling of perfectionism as adaptive is problematic because many people high on so-called adaptive perfectionism have a dysfunctional form of narcissism and/or homicidal ideation.
The citation does not back up this claim, and this seems very far-fetched.
Drbgreen (talk) 09:46, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed homicidal ideation