Talk:Marcial Maciel

message: I'm not sure what's going on here, maybe a battle between supporters and detractors, but this article is woefully inadequate.  It doesn't even mention the (historically significant) apologies that his defenders have made upon learning of his "multiple failings".
http://www.ncregister.com/site/article/setting_the_record_straight1/
http://www.uscatholic.org/news/2009/02/former-legionaries-official-apologizes-defending-father-maciel
70.179.23.9 (talk) 19:52, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Apologies by defenders 

message: Marcial Maciel Degollado's life was thoroughly diabolical--plagued with lies, sacrilege, adultery, polygamy, drug abuse, false witnesses, rape, theft, incest, pedophilia, homosexuality, child molestation, plagiarism and demoniac possession.  He is perhaps the greatest ecclesiastical villain since Judas Iscariot.  Pope Benedict XVI's recent comment in the book-length interview "Light of the World" stated that Maciel was an “enigmatic figure.”  In the book, Benedict also refers to the “adventurous, wasted, twisted life” led by Maciel, and refers to him as a “false prophet.”
Homosexuality, pederasty, child molestation, abuse of power, abuse of the sacrament of confession and sacrilege.  Maciel forced at least 13 Legionaries of Christ seminarians (one of them was as young as 11 years old) to give him oral sex and submit to anal sex, using the vows of obedience and respect for the superiors to force them to silence.  He showed some of them a fake letter from the Pope who supposedly authorized him to have sex with those seminarians.  While this was a very grave sin, the Church does not consider it as grave as what Maciel did after having sex with those seminarians: he confessed their sins and absolved them from the sexual sins that they committed together.  The church consider this action as one of the worst sins that a priest could ever commit, to the point that a priest that commits such an action is automatically excommunicated from the Church.
Lies, polygamy and violation of the vow of chastity.  Maciel lied to many people and worked under four to five alias in order live as husband or lover to a number of women. He was "Raul Rivas" (Norma Hilda's spouse and father of little Norma). He was also "Jaime Alberto Gonzalez Ramirez" (the lover of a Mexican woman and father of three children in Switzerland, whom he raped). He also went by the name "Juan Rivas."  He claimed he was a CIA agent.  When one of his "wives" saw a picture of him with Pope John Paul II on the cover of a magazine, he told her that he was a CIA agent and that being a priest was one of his coverups.  He also told another of his wives that he was a Shell Oil executive.
Incest, pedophilia, child molestation, rape and homosexuality.  Maciel sexually abused all of his male children when they were as young as 8 years old.  He forced them to masturbate him, give him oral sex and submit to anal sex.
Theft.  Maciel stole millions of dollars from the Legionaries of Christ and the Catholic Church.  He purchased apartment buildings in Mexico, Spain and Switzerland for his numerous families to force them to silence.
Drug abuse.  Maciel was an avid consumer of drugs.  He was once hospitalized in Rome for morphine overdose.
Plagiarism.  Maciel presented himself as a mystic writer, who had numerous charisms.  In 1959, Maciel published a book, "El Salterio de Mis Días" ("The Psalter of My Days"), which subsequently was widely read among members of the Legion and became the foundation of the Legionaries of Christ's charism.  Over the years, the book had been partially translated into English for the use of the English speaking members.  It was a memoir of experiences of persecution.  On December 11, 2009, the Lima, Peru, based Agencia Católica de Informaciones (ACI, Catholic News Agency) reported and proved that the directors of the Legion had circulated an internal memorandum revealing that the book copied "80 percent in style and content" the posthumously published memoir of a Spanish politician, Luis Lucia Lucia, who died in 1943. This memoir, written in 1941 (while its author was held as a political prisoner of the Franco regime), had been published in 1956 in Valencia, Spain.
Demoniac possession.  It has been recently revealed that Marcial Maciel refused to confess his sins on his death bed and that he refused Last Rites by saying to Fr. Alvaro Corcuera (new leader of the Legionaries of Christ), "I said no!" and that he "did not believe in God's pardon." The reaction led to the summoning of an exorcist.
Abuse of power.  Besides the three traditional vows of poverty, chastity and obedience that are common to all religious orders, Maciel introduced two additional vows for the Legionaries of Christ: the vow of humility and the vow of respect for the superiors.  Through the vow of humility, he prevented any Legionary from aspiring to any leadership position unless Maciel himself directly appointed them.  Through the vow of respect for the superiors, he prevented any Legionary from ever complaining about a superior.  This authorized any Legionary to spy on his religious brothers and report any brother who was suspected to complain about the superiors.  Through these vows, plus the vow of obedience, he created a climate of fear and intimidation, and was able to maintain full control over every member of the order.  These vows were eliminated only recently by Pope Benedict XVI.
Obviously, the devil wants to destroy the Church.  To do this, the devil is not just attacking the Church from outside, but it is undermining its foundation from inside.  Valid religious orders are those that were founded by true saints (St. Francis of Assisi founded the Franciscan order, St. Dominic the Dominican order, St. Ignatius of Loyola the Jesuit order, St. Josemaría Escrivá the Opus Dei order, etc.).  Members of those religious orders follow Jesus through the charism of the order, which is essentially the charism of their founders.  The Legionaries of Christ is a religious order with the ill charism of their founder, who has been defined as "the greatest ecclesiastical villain since Judas Iscariot."  Maciel injected a cancer inside the order, and that cancer is still there, growing out of control.
The new leaders of the Legionaries of Christ are the same who had been appointed by Maciel and who hid his mischievous actions for decades.  There has been no renovation.  The Legionaries of Christ have not completely detached themselves from Maciel.  When asked about Maciel, they still defend him with statements such as "He suffered from dementia so he was not fully responsible for his own actions" or "This is all a mystery because he was a man who did so much good."
Not surprisingly, in May 2012, a prominent Legionaries of Christ priest, Father Thomas Williams, who often appeared on TV to preach about morality, admitted to have had a mistress (one of his students at a university in Rome where he was a teacher of Theology and Philosophy) and fathered a child with her.  The child was born in 2005 and is now 7 years old.  Father Alvaro Corcuera, head of the Legionaries of Christ (replacing Marcial Maciel Degollado), admitted to having known of Fr. Williams' affair and child for years, but still allowed him to go on TV and preach about morality.  Corcuera said in a letter to the congregation that he did not give Williams an "explicit indication to full withdraw from all public ministry" until March 2012.  By that time, however, it was an open secret to a number of television journalists.  In the letter, Corcuera "begs" forgiveness from members of the order for being an ineffective leader and for not being "diligent in setting proper restrictions and enforcing them" in the Williams case.
It is sad to see that the Legionaries of Christ kept hiding their founder's terrible conduct for years and allow priests who live in sin to go on TV and preach about morality, but then prevent a religious brother who sincerely wants to help a soul in difficulty to do so.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:468:913:9010:226:BBFF:FE05:4537 (talk) 18:26, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Summary 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: *Original 

*13 September 2021 (edit) change

edit summary (Improved the summary to reflect important aspects of his life and abuses).
::Way exceeds 40 characters. Too long
*13 September 2021 (edit) reverted to original

*my change, 18 September

Although Wikipedia:Short description should be "no more than about 40 characters (but this can be slightly exceeded if necessary)",  in the case of Marcial Maciel not to mention the sexual abuse would be negligent IMHO. --Louis P. Boog (talk) 23:04, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dispute over Short Description 

message: It is stated that Maciel had a sexual relationship with a woman who was a minor. I believe that this glibly denies that abusive, predatory nature of Maciel and the statutory rape of this minor. Minors do not have 'sexual relationships' with older men who are known to be sexual predators. 2.98.48.104 (talk) 09:17, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: The sentence merely reads "he had also maintained sexual relationships with at least four women, one of whom was a minor at the time." (CC) Tbhotch™ 19:29, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Objection to description of relationships