Talk:West Azerbaijan province/Archive 3

message: As you see, clearly the greatest parts of the province is Kurdish inhabited:
,  , ,,,, , 
Done, There is absolutely much more credible sources regarding this matter.
Thank you
Diyako Talk + 13:58, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Some credible sources regarding : 1)The [[Kurds]] are majority in '''West''' Azerbaijan '''province''' of [[Iran]] and; 2)The Kurds in Northen Part of the province

message: To page mediator(s):
*Diyako and anon's position: Kurds are "majority" in West Azarbaijan. 
*Me (and Dr Hamed and Timbits)'s position: 
**Urmia (capital) is clearly Azari majority, not Kurdish, or even "Kurdish-Turkish". The Kurds are a minority there. (Azarbaijan means land of the Azari by the way)
**If not an Azari majority, the province is at least 50/50 in ethnic makeup. Diyako accepts only a "Kurdish majority". Dr Hamed and TimBits (as I understand) are for 70% Azari. As you can see, I am the conservative of the pro-Azeri bunch here.
Diyako's position is therefore unacceptable.
Here's why:  
#To begin with, paragraph 2 of the section in question and its following table in ordering the Kurds first and claiming majority makeup in certain and most cities is not substantiated by the links provided. The links only mention Kurds as found to be living there. Nothing more.
#Diyako et al refuse to acknowledge (and keep deleting the fact that) there is no official or government or even semi-government ethnicity census for West Azarbaijan in Iran. Everything therefore being claimed here by Diyako et al are only indirect remote estimates, or guesstimates, from foreign sources, whether pro-Azeri or pro-Kurdish. 
#One cannot use maps (links [19] and [20] cited above e.g.) to justify a claim of majority status of Kurds in West Azarbaijan. Maps are inconclusive and cannot tell whether or not a group is in majority status vis a vis another. It only tells where a specific group can be found to reside there. If anything, in fact Maps [13] and [16] cited above show Urmia (the largest city) as Azeri. If we were to interpret maps as an indication of majority status, I could also then show maps that claim the opposite (i.e.  show an Azeri majority). Examples:    and 
#Links [15] and [18] cited above say nothing about a Kurdish "majority" in West Azarbaijan. They only report Kurds to be found to live there.
#For the claim of Urmia being Kurdish majority on map [17], I can in turn cite the following opposing sources: These sources claim a majority for Azeris in Urmia: 
##H. Anzali,  p49, (2000)
##A. Kaviyanpur  p421, (1999)
##"...90% of Urmia are Azeri..."
#That leaves us with only link [14] as directly stating "a Kurdish majority in West Azerbaijan". But then again, there are opposing sources as well, which Diyako et al ignore: 
*"...the Kurds are a minority..." 
*"...Turks dominate by ethnic composition in the Azerbaijani provinces of Iran (more than 90% of the total popula tion)...." 
*"...Orumiye is mostly Turkish or Azari..."
*"...The people  of Azarbaijan {East and West} speak a Turkish dialect called Azari..." 
*"...They {Azeris} are...majority of West Azarbaijan..." 
*"...the 'Shiite-sect' mostly are the inhabitants of Orumieh and the northern cities, whereas the Sunnite sect are prevalent in the southern areas of the province..." (note: Kurds are Sunni, Azeris are Shia) 
*"...They {Azeris} are ... majority of West Azarbaijan..." also "...Azari cities: Urmia, Khoy, Maragheh..."
*"...In 1978, about two-thirds of West Azerbaijan’s 1.5 million people lived in three thousand scattered villages. Most villagers speak Azari, a local dialect, but there is a Kurdish minority in the south..."
*"...Population of Orumiye is mostly Turkish or Azari..."
My vote therefore is:
In light of the lack of any official census, and in light of having both Azeri and Kurdish sources oppositely claiming majority status for the province, it would be only fair to claim 50/50 status in general, and only say that the south of the province is thought to be Kurdish dominated, while the north is Azeri, and that Urmia is for certain mainly Azeri, while Mahabad is for certain Kurdish.--Zereshk 23:04, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The same can be said about you and that anon editor of yours.--Zereshk 02:50, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Your sources arent credible either. Youve been posting PDK sources!--
Zereshk 02:50, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: This is Diyako adding a PDK source as reference: Dec 9, 2005. He denies it.--Zereshk 03:33, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Says who? Show me.--Zereshk 02:50, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Oh, you mean the maps. Well maps arent credible enough to base a majority claim on.--Zereshk 02:50, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

text: I accept "Large". I do not accept "majority" claim. I opted for a 50/50. YOU REFUSED.--Zereshk 02:50, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

text: You dont need to explain anything to me. Ive been there 3 times. I was born in Iran.--Zereshk 02:50, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Where in your links does it exactly say "5 are entirely Kurdish"? How is it that you put "entirely Kurdish" for majority Kurdish towns and instead put "Kurdish-Turkish" for Turkish majority towns (such as Naghadeh and Urmia)? I find that problematic and biased.--Zereshk 02:50, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Even on your own Kurdistanica map it says "Urmia: a city with a Kurdish minority.--Zereshk 03:39, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: No it's not old. Your map is old. And 49% is still a "minority".--Zereshk 04:19, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

text: There's no use. Let's just wait for the mediation. I'm waiting to see how your attacks against me will change things.--Zereshk 03:55, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Please provide the addition link to where I called you "ahmagh". Also, the second statement is not an attack. It just says some people dont deserve any respect. Any other lies for the mediation committee you might wanna add?--Zereshk 04:12, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Yes. Let us wait.--Zereshk 04:19, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposal for mediation committee--part 1