Talk:Frank Sinatra/Archive 1

message: Hm...one glaring omission from this article is that there is no mention of Sinatra's spouses. --Johnleemk 09:09, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: No mention of Nancy Reagan? - Sparky 19:27, 20 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Spouses

message: I find it strange that a detailed list of Sinatra's albums are missing, since he made so many of them. I think it's logical we add such a discography. I want to take task on me, but I need to know if something like this wasn't deleted before or something? :) Switcher 02:16, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Discography

message: I put together the body of the material on Sinatra alleged mob ties.  As I wrote above, every discussion of Sinatra - biography, TV etc. - discusses this issue and wikipeida must note the discussions.  
Kudos to Wasted Time R for sourcing the material.  The argument against including the now sourced info seems to be allong the lines of "he was never convicted".  OJ Simpson was never convicted - should his article skip from sport to acting to. . . a strange widower?    What nonsence!  What trash!  Who the hell loves this dead man so much that they thing there should be a little bit of biography where no mention is made of suspisions that he was linked to the mafia!  Show your face Frank Simatra Jr!
jucifer 20:56, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Well said

message: From a review of Anthony Summer's book, THE LIFE, an FAS, by Jonathan Schwartz that appeared in the May 18, 2005, edition of the New York OBSERVER:
"I believe, based on a lifetime of consideration, that Frank Sinatra was the greatest interpretive musician this country has ever produced. By that I mean he took the music and words of composers and lyricists, passed them through his own emotions, intellect and life blood, and distributed them to grateful recipients all over the world for 60 years. His singing was, for the most part, virtuosic. It was also intimate, honest and accessible, even to those who spoke no English. His recordings of more than 1,300 songs, collected in a towering stack of albums and a cornucopia of repackagings from dozens of countries as well as the United States, will stand forever as a living archive of excellence unsurpassed in its field and beloved by plumbers and dentists, entrepreneurs and violinists, octogenarians and grandchildren, astronauts and politicians, and inhabitants of tiny huts made of twigs.
Any book called Sinatra: The Life would be well advised, therefore, to follow the music. Without it, there are no girls, gangsters or Presidents, no private jets, bowls of caviar, sprawling mansions or astronomical phone bills. There are no movies to star in, private tables in fabled restaurants, Congressional hearings or stretch limousines; no Gregory Peck, no Dean Martin, no Liz Smith. And, to be sure, no Ava Gardner." Aucociscokid
:So you are suggesting that the 'Recorded Legacy' material should be integrated into the mainline article?   Wasted Time R 19:02, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggested Article Theme/Focus 

message: The main discography is pretty impressive, but there is no mention of the numerous singles Sinatra released in his career, many of which are well recognised even today and should be documented (Witchcraft, I've Got The World On A String, to name a few, the latter of which deserves a place in the narrative as some allege it saved his career).
I propose therefore a new section entitled "Notable Columbia Singles" or something to that effect. Cheers, Cdyson37 | (Talk) 17:14, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Go for it, as well as adding items to the narrative.   Wasted Time R 18:19, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, after a month of no one doing it, I created a whole new entry called Frank Sinatra discography that includes his singles. Williamnilly 22:46, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks good.  Note that there is also a List of songs recorded by Frank Sinatra article that was started some time ago.  I think that list and article is totally worthless, but looking at the blue links in it may tell you which songs in your singles list have articles that you can link to.   Wasted Time R 22:51, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow, that really does look worthless. At least, right now. A more complete list would be impressive. I can see the reason for it, since his career has spanned five decades and he's recorded over 600 songs. It would be great to see EVERY song he's ever recorded. I might work on that too! Williamnilly 17:12, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Singles 

message: Hi. I'm planning to use write articles on the individual Sinatra albums, following the format I have done with Ella Fitzgerald. Would anyone object if I ocassionally described him as a Jazz Singer, rather than the epithet 'Traditional Pop'?
:No objection ... these labels are semi-useless anyway.  A lot of great artists find gaps in between and across genres, rendering attempts to pigeonhole them into a particular genre rather pointless.   Wasted Time R 00:49, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it would be helpful. As the article now stands, it makes little or no mention of the styles he worked in. He could have been a Tuvan throat singer for all you can tell from this. Sylvain1972 15:30, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Genre listed in Album Articles 

message: Managed to sort out the confusion about the various 'Young at Hearts'.  This (IMDb) was Frank's last screen appearance, (Shot 16 Nov 1994 in Toronto). Although he only says three words ("Joey sent me"), it's a belting little film, with lots of Frank running right through it.  Get on to CBS TV to put it out on DVD !. ChrisRed 00:17, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Frank's Last Screen Appearance 

message: I forgot about this article.  I looked into it and it appears that the person that kept deleting the organised crime section of the article is a member of a "sinatra family board"  by the name of zaphobd of Marina Del Rey, who asked people to edit this article to keep it in line with their POV. (here)
I am going to put the sourced section above back into the article - entitling it "Allegations of mob ties".
As I have said before - these allegations are a major part of the life of frank Sinatra, some of it is undisputed even by his family, and in any bio of the man they need to be addressed.
Oh by the way you wanna know how I found out about this!  I saw the Autosiskid (or whatever) had only ever edited two articles.  This one (loads) and Peaks Island.  So I did this search here, and found that page listed above!  I am so proud of this - I should become a detective. jucifer 01:18, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Organised Crime 

message: Many people now consider Sinatra to be a jazz singer (esp in his later years) although its true he started as more of a crooner.--Light current 13:44, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pop or Jazz 

message: Can anyone remember the title of the memoir by Frank's bodyguard in which it was revealed that Sinatra wore a harness to keep his unusually large penis from distracting and alarming people? I know I read it, but I can't remember the title or the guy's name.
 --62.255.236.65 01:17, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unusual size of Sinatra's endowment. 

message: In a number of golden age cartoons, such as 1946's Book Revue (dir. Robert Clampett, Warner) and 1948's Little 'Tinker (dir. Tex Avery, MGM), Sinatra is portrayed as sickly thin (breathing masks, disappearing behind microphone stand, etc). Upon googling I also see that Bob Hope made jokes to this effect . Was this a common joke about Sinatra at the time? If so, should it be included in the article? Mikkel 01:40, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Most of the references I can find to him being thin are 1945-1950. Seems that that was when Sinatra's popularity was declining and he had yet to reinvent himself as a movie star. Mikkel 12:45, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Frank being the butt of "thin"-jokes 

message: The article says at the end of the family section that Barbara Blakeley Marx didn't not call the children near the end "and the children missed the opportunity to be at their father's bedside when he died." Then, "Sinatra's last words were (according to his daughter Nancy Sinatra, as told to Variety senior columnist, Army Archerd): "I'm losing."" I'm just curious myself, and it may be confusing to other readers. Elsprucemoose 02:30, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Children at bedside when Frank died? 

message: With war between Big Jock Knew and a few so-called "vandalizers",  there's evidence that the last part of an article is TOTALLY DELETED!! External links, samples, etc. No offense, Big Jock Knew, but I believe that you overlooked an error. I will revert and clean up the damages either caused by 168.216.144.195 or 168.216.221.23. I promise and am serious! —Gh87 06:29, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: Isn't Frank Sinatra "pitch perfect", a really rare musical talent where a singer hits all notes in his range spot-on?  Is this at all true, or just a rumor?-akshayaj   [21:02, 14 June 2006 64.73.43.226]
answered my own question; there's a link at the very bottom called "people with absolute pitch", though the talent isn't as rare as I thought (65 ppl on the list).  maybe there should be some reference in the article itself? -akshayaj
Yes, it should be mentioned. - Deathrocker 12:14, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Perfect/absloute pitch is the ability to hear and identify a note without any other musical support. It has little to do with hitting notes spot on. Apparently all humans can be born with the ability, but because it's not essential for survival in today's world, many lose the ability. Rikstar 22:03, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pitch perfect 

message: Can anyone comment on reports that during the waning years of the Reagan Administration, when the president was already suffering the debilitating effects of his degenerative disease, Nancy Reagan often determined policy, turning to such sources as Frank Sinatra and spiritualists (fortune tellers) for advice?
--Philopedia 09:21, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Influence over Nancy Reagan & the Reagan Presidency 

message: We wish to advise everyone that we (the Living Trust Network) have a copy of Frank Sinatra's Last Will and Testament posted on our website, which we believe is of interest to anyone seeking information about the life of Frank Sinatra. We have also discussed our desire to post a link to Frank Sinatra's Last Will and Testament with Wikipedia administrators [See User talk:Livingtrust], either under "references" or "external links." Last Will and Testament of Frank Sinatra. Wikipedia does not object to the link but has requested that we not put the link up ourselves since we are a commercial website. Instead, it has requested that we make it known that the Last Will and Testament is available, and anyone who wishes to add the link to the "reference" section or the "external links" section may do so. So, we solicite your help in adding the link set forth above. Thanks. Livingtrust 03:24, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Last Will and Testament of Frank Sinatra 

message: During World War II, Sinatra was known as the "most hated man." But this only referred to being hated by other males. This was due to his popularity with women and also to his military status. Soldiers and sailors would stand outside theaters and throw eggs and tomatoes at the billboard images of him. He tried to compensate for his absence from the military during the war by subsequently accepting many movie roles that would allow him to appear in a military uniform.Lestrade 19:33, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Most Hated

message: When Lee Harvey Oswald left the theater after seeing Manchurian Candidate, did he have any new thoughts in his head? Were those thoughts reinforced by having seen Suddenly on television the preceding Sunday afternoon? Was this another example of the pernicious effect of Hollywood?Lestrade 19:45, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Emulation

message: I, for one, do not think this is an appropriate photo to illustrate the article on FS. Orbicle 08:51, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't either. The problem is, of course trying to find a public domain image of Frankie for illustration purposes. Gareth E Kegg 09:30, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Mug Shot

message: In the genre section while discussing his style of music the article currently says: "He loved Cabbage alot." Is this a bit of vandalism or a poorly written sentence about a jazz term?--BHC 04:29, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a reference to cash money , but...  Trekphiler 15:59, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Love of cabbage?

message: Who gave him the apellation?  Kwizatz Hederach 16:12, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Moody Blues|The Voice]] 

message: The following sentence is, I think, just a subjective opinion:
''
And, more importantly, he might be said to have brought the Crosby tradition to artistic completion, taking it to levels of intensity and depth of feeling that, because of the displacement of the Crosby-Sinatra tradition by rock and roll and subsequent genres, are unlikely to be achieved again.''
C'mon. It's true that rock and roll et al. have displaced the Crosby-Sinatra tradition, but by any informed standard, music hasn't been deprived of intense, deep feelings. I'm no fan, but listen to some early U2 and explain why Sinatra's voice is more intense and deeply felt.
So: if this page is anybody's baby, I recommend you delete that sentence. Figureground 00:40, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bel Canto is the only deeply felt vocal style? 

message: Can somebody please make a section that lists all of Sinatras albums in one easy to find paragraph?....I mean this page has a section for his albums....but when you click it.....It lists a few and not all of them.....The rest of his albums are spread out all over the page....and I dont even think this page lists all his albums anyway (I could be wrong about that part though)......So can someone have one album section that lists all his albums?.....ARYAN818 21:47, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Can someone make an easy albums section here? 

message: I have made a bunch of edits to bring this in line with the Wikipedia:Manual of Style, which is the style followed here at Wikipedia, including:
# section headings use "sentence case', not "title case", e.g., "Important section heading", not "Important Section Heading"
# dates follow the format: "29 December 2006" or "December 29, 2006", and not "December 29th 2006" or "Dec. 29, 2006", or "Decmber of 2006" -- see WP:DATE
# album titles, movie names and magazine titles are italicised. Song titles go in "double quotation marks".
Also, I have converted many of the "would"s into the simple past tense. The past tense is generally preferred for describing events that occurred in the past because it is more easily understood, especially by the many people who do not speak English as a first language who read Wikipedia.
Ground Zero | t 19:16, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Formatting

message: It says that Sinatra voice could hit a low E flat , and that he hits it in Ol man river. Now, low E flat is very, very low, lower than most operas bass singer can go. Also, in the 1964 version of the song he goes low, but not that low. --Sicamous 20:06, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Low E Flat 

message: I tried to tone down the hyperbole in the introduction. It presented as fact that Sinatra is considered (by whom?) one of the finest male vocalists of all times (did the person who pretended this check the centuries of vocalists before, worldwide?). This sounds to me like typical editorializing with a parochial point of view. More appropriate would be:
:Sinatra is often considered, in the United States, to be one of the finest American vocalists of the 20th century'.
Seriously, I strongly doubt that most people in China (1 billion) have heard who Sinatra is. In India (also 1 billion), I bet he'd be beaten in popularity by some Bollywood star. Or Michael Jackson. David.Monniaux 16:50, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sinatra is often considered, to be one of the finest American vocalists of the 20th century.
We shouldn't limit it to "in the United States" because Sinatra has a world-wide reputation as an American vocalist. He is popular in English-speaking countries (Canada, UK, Australia) and in other countries with an appeciation for American popular music (France, Japan, Italy). --SeanO 16:58, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inappropriate tone 

message: A lot of info was added. Much of it seems to be unsourced. Some broke up previously cited material. Request another editor's review. Ronbo76 21:01, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[February 22]], [[2007]] edits 

message: How many movies are we to believe Sinatra was at his finest in?  Article REEKS of non-NPOV shit like this: Alvis 03:32, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure it's that bad, I mean, Sinatra was a mediocre actor, so saying it was one of his finest performances is not saying much. 75.68.6.81 15:55, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too many greatest roles 

message: I am removing a line in the early biography because apparently, whatever the name of the group Sinatra was involved with for an early talent show, it's been changed to "Lets all edit Wikipedia"
If you know the right name, please enter it. --le petite robot 19:32, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: http://shopformusic.microsoft.com/Shop/Artist.asp?locale=409&p_id=P+++++3150&name=Frank+Sinatra 
--Root Beers 22:15, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nice Biography @ Microsoft.com ! 

message: I found this mugshot of ol blue eyes.
*http://www.biogs.com/famous/sinatrafrank.html --Root Beers 22:30, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Arrest? 

message: Frank Sinatra was most active and at the height of his career in the 1950s and 1960s.  Who here agrees that his main picture should be one from this time? If we are going to show what many would agree to be the Rolls Royce of singing, why not show one in top condition?
:The most important consideration is that we use a free image as our first choice wherever possible.  If a suitable free image from the 50s or 60s can be found, that would be great and I would be all for it.  However, the image from the Budokan is an acceptable image - it may not be as good as many other images, but the most important thing is that it is free.  The only other free image I can find that might be ok to use is :Image:Frank Sinatra 1973.jpg.  It's not perfect but it's reasonable.  The Budokan image at least shows him performing, which is appropriate.  Rossrs 14:20, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Article's Main Picture 

message: Does anybody know exactly what Sinatra's vocal range was? I've heard anywhere from less than 1 tp 2 1/2, which I don't quite believe. Sherick 17:51, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Range? 

message: Can we discuss this edit?  I think that such a claim in the first sentence of the lead section should be sourced; the contributor originally cited iTunes in an HTML comment, which I do not feel is a reliable source.  He, however, has re-added the claim, and has not verified it.  I have no wish to edit war, but I feel this should be removed until it can be cited.  — Madman bum and angel (talk – desk) 06:33, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Change to Lead