Talk:Catalan Company

message: Is this the same as Almogavares? I'm not sure, but it looks like it. If so they should be merged. Adam Bishop 22:30, 2 Sep 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: They're different, but related. A rough analogy would be Varangian vs. Viking. Agree though that the Almogavares article needs to be edited to clarify the relationship. Loren Rosen 22:40, 2 Sep 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, I see, thanks! Adam Bishop 22:49, 2 Sep 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: Almogavares?

message: The citation for the poems of Constantine Stilbes, who lived in the 12th and 13th century, makes no sense for explaining events in 1305. His poems consist of two funerary orations for his contemporaries, and a poem describing a fire in Constantinople in 1197. Moreover, the citation points to pages 95-96, despite the fact that the book is only 73 pages long. I believe the citation is fraudulent and have replaced it with a citation needed tag.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stilbes (talk • contribs) 11:43, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Constantine Stilbes

message: Why the addition of Spain and France after "Catalonia"?
What do you mean?
--Error 00:00, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Spain / France

message: I'd like to learn about what sort of methods these guys used in combat. How did they adapt to naval combat using medieval equipment and ideas?
"...Catalan Almughavars, who fought with a long spear, several javelins, and a big sword, but no shield."
http://www.umiacs.umd.edu/~kuijt/dba165/dba165.html
I support the comment above.  It would be very good if someone could add information regarding the armaments and organization of the Company and other matters that describe and differentiate it in military terms. 174.92.107.127 (talk) 02:35, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Armaments and Tactics

message: :De Flor was inspired to form the company by the mediaeval tale of Tirant lo Blanc, after the Peace of Caltabellotta in 1302 had left jobless the soldiers from Catalonia and Aragon who had been fighting against the French dynasty of Anjou.
This seems wrong. Tirant lo Blanc may be a century later.
--Error 00:51, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Tirant

message: Who wrote this that the catalan company defeated the ottoman empire? which is nonsense because the ottoman empire did not exist at that time!!. The ottoman (empire) was unofficially founded in 1299 but according to historians it was about a decade later. I looked at some books about the period of 1300 but there is no mention of anything catalan in it. I personally think that this catalan company in Turkey is nothing but folklore there is absolutally no mention is credited history books. Orrin_73 2 Januari 2006
:Try reading a better quality of book. I've just added a line referring to Ramon Muntaner, historian and member of the company. Anyway, see this link on Byzantine history , which refers to the attack on the Byzantines by the Ottoman Turks in 1302, and counter-attack by the Catalans in 1303. Choess 21:40, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Let me try another angle. What books are you examining, and why do you believe they are comprehensive as to external military involvement in the Byzantine Empire at the time? In support of my position, I would point out that:
#The text of the article describes their defeat of the Ottoman Turks, e.g., the tribe led by Osman, not the Ottoman Empire, post-1299. That's perfectly reasonable: in other words, the company was engaged against the Ottomans while they were a rebellious tribe and before they became an independent state.
#If you look at the article on Ramon Muntaner, there are links to his Cronica, in translation and in the orignal Catalan. It's a rather extensive history and hardly "folklore".
#Mainstream print sources attest to the career of the Catalan Company. I quote from A History of the Crusades, Jonathan Riley-Smith (Chapter 8): "The [Catalan] Company had hired itself to the Byzantine emperor Andronicus II to fight the Ottoman Turks, who were making almost their first appearance on the historical scene, but it had quarreled with him and had pillaged its way through Thrace and Macedonia..."
Perhaps your books refer to them as "almogavares," a general term for Catalan light infantry? Choess 02:43, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Yeah, I was wrong to say "rebellious"; "hostile" would have been a better word. I have heard of Anna Comnena, but I thought she was about a century too early to cover this. Ducas I'm afraid I'm not really familiar with, but his article suggests his history begins too late (1341). Anyway, I can see why they might not be well covered in Turkish sources: their contact with the Ottomans only lasted about a year, after which the Basileus Michael murdered their leaders and they went off to ravage the Empire in revenge (albeit with Turkish auxiliaries). Looking through our list of Greek historians, George Pachymeres and Nicephorus Gregoras both appear to speak of the Catalans (; see also Gibbon ). I don't know anything about Turkish sources, but I think the Greek historians and those citing them provide a reasonable weight of evidence as to the historicity of the Company. I apologize for my initial hostility: hopefully this is a satisfactory settlement of the question. Choess 04:56, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ottoman

message: This isn't very well written.  I started come changes but it's too late. Can anyone with more expertise help? Arthurian Legend 06:09, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm. I read Muntaner when working on the article on the Catalan Company, and I would still tend to make a distinction between them: Almogavars were a particular type of soldier, mostly recruited from Catalonia, and the Catalan Company was a particular group of almogavars that fought in Asia Minor. They're certainly the most famous, but hardly the only group. Choess 01:53, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Badly written 

message: Good news, no more doubts about english references&translation (names, toponims, etc) I've started a new article from es.wiki article with the refs from the translation of Lady Goodenough (not joking.) from the Hakluyt Society's book source which is free in archive since 2015..
:Of course, After the new structure of the article (in separated points) has been set, I will be adding the information of the former article, gathered here during the las 10 years that I think it's important.. with the new references
*
*--Mcapdevila (talk) 11:39, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: New start from es.wiki with Hakluyt's book source free in archive since 2015

message: "The Sicilian chancellery referred to them as Francorum, "Frankish", rather than "Catalan", in deference to the non-Catalan members of the company. However, the written letters produced by the company were mainly in Catalan".
The County of Barcelona, which eventually dominated all of what is today known as Catalonia, was founded by the Frankish kingdom in the early 9th century, and remained part of that kingdom for several centuries. The term "Frankish" furthermore was used in the Levant to designate Catholic west European, like the Arabic term فرنجية "franji" or "franjieh". The Frankish Empire was the state established by west European Catholics on the lands of the Byzantine (Orthodox) empire. "Frankish" was a concept opposed to "Orthodox or Greek Christian". In modern Malaysian the term is applied to all Christian or presumably Christian Europeans. Banderswipe (talk) 22:16, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Frankish or Catalan