Talk:Wigan/Archive 1

message: WHAT ABOUT RICHARD ASHCROFT OF THE VERVE?  JOE LYDON? SEAN EDWARDS? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.6.129.141 (talk • contribs) 16:41, 5 February 2006.
:THE VERVE are NOT a Wigan group. None of the members are from Wigan. Richard Ashcroft is NOT from Wigan. Nick McCabe is from Haydock. He went to Haydock High School and dislikes Wigan. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.195.142.222 (talk • contribs) 20:55, 19 October 2006.
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The majority of people born in Wigan were born in Billinge Hospital (Like Richard Ashcroft), how the hell can Ashcroft be described as not from Wigan?. If that is the case the majority of people in the town must also not be from Wigan.
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So, if he was born in Billinge Hospital, he must be from Billinge then, NOT Wigan. Most people from St.Helens area were also born in Billinge Hospital, after all, it was the maternity hospital covering the area, not only Wigan. Small town minds strike again! (he's actually from Skelmersdale).
If a dog is born in a stable, is it a horse?
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*The people in this list were either born or brought up in Wigan (not necessarily both), or have had some significant connection with the town during their life.
... That's what it say's on the list. Ashcroft was neither born, or brought up, in Wigan. I know of no 'significant' connections with Wigan either, as all the claims about Wigan and The Verve are untrue. He even 'dislikes' being regarded as coming from Wigan, he's even said so in interviews and regards it as myth and rumour.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 (talk • contribs) .
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:I would be very grateful if you could point us to, or at least find a transcript of said interview(s). This is from a personal point of view as well as the article's. -- Hindleyite 15:37, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow, thanks for this. I regard myself as a Wiganer as I come from Hindley, my mother is from Hindley and my Father from Whelley. Am I small minded? Well, that's down to individual opinion. :) -- Hindleyite 20:09, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: RICHARD ASHCROFT et al

message: Why not read a much better merged article at Metropolitan Borough of Wigan Gosh it even has some references! ;-) Generic Character 23:22, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Metropolitan Borough of Wigan

message: Is it the metropolitan borough that is twinned rather than the town? MRSC • Talk 10:08, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is.  This needs moving.  Morwen - Talk 10:39, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Moved. MRSC • Talk 10:43, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Twinning

message: We need a local expert, who can be TRUSTED to give the facts and not His or Her POV. this is turning out to be urgently needed as i have had to have a revert war with an unsigned user about facts in this article. Can someone oblige please! Random articles 22:03, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  To Put It Politely 

message: I'm moving this text here from the main article because it really interrupted the flow of the article and probably doesn't belong in the heading.
Government Statement. .......
* 'Note that the LGA 1972 did not do anything to the historic Counties of Britain. It only abolished the administrative counties and county boroughs. The Government was (and still is) happy to confirm that the Counties themselves were unaffected...'
"The new county boundaries are solely for the purpose of defining areas of ... local government. They are administrative areas, and will not alter the traditional boundaries of Counties, nor is it intended that the loyalties of people living in them will change." Source:(DoE Statement, 1st April 1974). ....... (ABCounties) --Wafulz 02:59, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, is misquote and misattribution.  Morwen - Talk 09:04, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Government statement

message: I believe the point regarding Wigan as a part of the Liverpool Diocese should be include, (maybe in the civic history section). The 'true' distance of Wigan from Manchester is 18 miles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.77.129.35 (talk • contribs) 
Saying "historically in the Diocese of Liverpool" is problematic: because the Diocese of Liverpool was only formed in 1880: prior to then it had been part of the Diocese of Chester.  The language used is strange as well: is "Head Parish" Anglican jargon? Because I can't find any evidence of that.  Anyway, why should we give one particular religion's hierachy prominence?   Morwen - Talk 09:55, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you provide evidence for the "head parish" usage.  I can find no evidence on the internet for the term being used in this way.  Morwen - Talk 10:12, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Above point

message: This article is having the same edits added/removed/readded and so on and so forth.  I know not who is correct but as this is coming from a large number of anon users, should this article be considered for locking to all but registered users? Regan123 20:06, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Circular Editing 

message: Please can everyone remember to sign their contributions - underneath where you write the edit summary it has a clickable to do it.  The discussion is getting difficult to understand as to who is saying what.  I have added substitute signatures as best I can.
Also, please don't remove comments from the talk page and don't use words like "Plonker". Always assume good faith.
Thanks,
Regan123 23:46, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Signing Articles / Language 

message: Found this on the Wigan MBC website : http://www.wigan.gov.uk/pub/council/25facts/25things-wigan.pdf
At the bottom left of page 2 is the follwing:
"Before they split in 1999, Wigan band
The Verve became the town’s most famous
musical export since George
Formby. They were all from the Wigan
area and met while at Winstanley College,
a sixth form centre on the outskirts
of town.. Singer Richard Ashcroft is now
pursuing a successful solo career."
This clearly states that the Verve were form Wigan and that Winstanley College is on the 'outskirts' of the town (therefore in Wigan).—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.77.129.35 (talk • contribs).
*Wigan MBC will say that. They tell people all sorts of lies. The 'history shop' is full of lies too, they are a bunch of frauds, putting out false information. Winstanley College is on the 'outskirts' of Wigan, but it isn't 'in' Wigan. It's across the border. It's 'in' Orrell actually, look at the Orrell 'ward boundaries' on the Governments National Statistics. You say 'they were all from the Wigan area', well, thats a false claim for a start, because Nick McCabe is from the St.Helens area, went to the same school as me and he says that "None of us are from Wigan, that's just a myth". Myths are what Wigan MBC are good at. Skelmersdale can't be regarded as being in the Wigan area either, and that's where Ashcroft is from.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 (talk • contribs).
** Your right Nick McCabe was from the St. Helens area. I didnt say they were all from the Wigan area, Wigan MBC did. I also dont think that anyone would suggest that Skelmersdale was in Wigan, it is clearly a town with its own identity and if Ashcroft lived there then yes he was from Skelmersdale, however if he was born in Billinge Hospital he is originally from Wigan, he should therefore be included in both areas 'notable people'. If Wigan MBC say that Orrell is 'in Wigan' and 99.9% of people in Wigan say Orrell (and Pemberton and Ince etc etc) are 'in Wigan' (which they do), then it should described as 'in Wigan'. You appear to have hostility towards Wigan MBC and I detect a slight 'agenda' in your comments. If im wrong about this I sincerely apologise, but you must accept offical citations.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.77.129.35 (talk • contribs).
** You're not wrong mate about his hostilities towards Wigan and Wiganers in general, he's an Ashtonian and seems to have a grudge for some strange reason, if you look above I have been arguing (sorry, discussing) with him about these things in the section headed "Richard Ashcroft et al" it really makes an interesting read and his prejudices can be seen there too. I do like his sense of humour though, I just wish he could use it to more positive effect 82.33.171.111 22:00, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The Verve/Winstanley College

message: The entire dispute could probably be solved by describing these people as from the Wigan area (or suburbs or whatever).  The current flame war on this looks, to an outsider, pretty silly.  Guy (Help!) 12:59, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pointless dispute 

message: A couple of things:
*Billinge & Orrell are both disambiguation pages and should not be linked to.  Please can you link it to the correct article.
*Wigan (the town) is a sub division of Metropolitan Borough of Wigan.  See .  The bold names indicate distinct areas.  So, for exmaple Orrell is not in Wigan, the town, but in the Metropolitan Borough of Wigan.  Whilst this seems archaic to some, it is an important distinction that we need to make to maintain the accuracy of the encylopedic.
If anyone has any comments, please leave them below and remember to sign you comment with (~~~~) so that it makes it easier to follow the conversation.  Thanks.  Regan123 00:52, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Man2, I noticed from your comment below, you think it is better to remove all references.  Can I suggest that if we know where they were born down to the correct district then that should be on the article.  All we need to do is sort out the Wigna/Metropolitan Brough distinction.  No one is doubting that you contacted the council (see my talk) and so on, but Wikipedia looks for Reliable sources that can be cited.  Generally these are official or neutal thrid party websites.  We have one website above that shows Orrell as being distinct from Wigan and the OS map.  But that doesn't mean that this is the end of the matter.  If you have other sources of information, bring them to the table and between us all we can sort this out.  In the end the only thing that matters is getting the entries accurate, whatever that turns out to be.   Cheers,  Regan123 18:12, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Another thought for Orrell, which might work:  Orrell is a residential area in the Metropolitan Borough of Wigan, Greater Manchester, England.  Due to its proximity to Wigan town centre it primarily acts a suburb for the town. Now if there are no objections I propose employing this from the weekend.  What do you all think?  Regan123 00:02, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wigan / Metropolitan Borough of Wigan 

message: Let us simply ensure that the phrase 'Metropolitan Borough of Wigan' is included in all the articles making reference to the borough e.g. 'Ince, Metropolitan Borough of Wigan, Greater Manchester'(rather than 'Ince, Wigan, Greater Manchester') etc etc. This should easily sort out any misunderstanding's/disagreements.  Man2 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Man2 (talk • contribs) 14:38, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Above

message: Arnold Schwarzenegger? Proof plz!138.243.228.52 02:22, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Arnold Schwarzenegger 

message: I would like to make a proposal on this list.  Unless we know that they were actually brought up or have lived a while in Wigan, then we probably should move them to either the Metropolitan Borough of Wigan article or the appropriate suburb/district/village article.  See Stoke-on-Trent for an example.  What do people think? Regan123 19:59, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My idea is based on the fact that Wigan is not the Metropolitan Borough and vice-versa.  If we can cite a source so that we can accurately place them within one of the appropriate articles.  If we can't, then the Met article would be a good holding place. The problem is (like Stoke-on-Trent, sources don't necessairliy define it properly. If the majority is against, then we won't proceed. Regan123 23:56, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Famous residents