Talk:Prem Rawat/Archive 12

message: The activities of some people here must be ended, and immediately.
A long, contentious and difficult effort by many people resulted in the consensus that:
1) the Prem Rawat article should have a "main" page that is biographic and encyclopedic in nature;
2) it would contain references in passim to critical views; and
3) there was so much unproven or debated allegation in that critical material that acheiving balance could ONLY be achieved through the creation of a companion critique page.
Now I see an attempt to hijack and undo all this work is afoot. This is not acceptable.
The heart of the effort is to ignore our previous consensus and merge the articles, guaranteeing that unsubstantiated material (i.e., academically acceptable data such as hearsay and anecdote) is being touted as "the truth" and threatens to swallow up the core information. In other words, those with an anti-Rawat agenda want to establish the primary entry of Prem Rawat as wholly negative. 
This is like defining an apple as " "a bad thing, horrible in taste and probably poisonous"" instead of "a fruit, red in color, which some people do not like."  And the logical thing to do would be to create a seperate file about all the "bad" things about apples where those interested in learning about the "bad" facts can find more. 
The "anti" viewpoints cannot and should not swallow the whole, but that's the unfortunate effect of merger. Keep them seperate.
As for the integrity of the data, Mr. Brauns has not sufficiently answered the questions that simple research presented. He is in fact the same registered owner of all of the main web pages cited in the negative views, and has dissembled by claiming that he is not the author. As owner of the webpage, he is responsible for their content, and his simply saying that there are other people who authored these duplicative pages but they are afraid to be held publicly accountable for their statements is not justification for making these pages the basis of credible research. It is clear that these duplicative pages are a sham designed to fool the public into thinking that their views are more widely held than in fact they are.
No merger. Revert as Zappas suggested, and no more phony links. Enough already.
RichardG.
::Please don't vandalize the talkpage richard,lexy or whatever that is , you little rascal ;-) Thomas h 13:17, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Enough Nonsense: No Merger, No Phony Links 

message: You do not know how to do a WHOIS? 
#whois maharaji.net
:Registrar Services webmaster@tprf.org
:The Prem Rawat Foundation
:P.O. Box 241498
:Los Angeles, CA 90024
:US
:Phone: 01 310 392 5700
#whois elanvital.net
:Elan Vital, Inc.
:PO BOX 6130
:MALIBU,, CA 90264-6130
:US
:Phone: 818 889-1373
≈ jossi ≈ 06:03, August 12, 2005 (UTC)
Yes, we can get a result for Whois. We also get a result for ex-premie.org. That doesn't tell us who owns Elan Vital, Inc, or who wrote the material on their website. So the authorship and ownership are ultimately unknown. Yet another website, like millions of others. -Willmcw 01:01, August 13, 2005 (UTC)
: What do you mean by "authorship and ownership are ultimatley unknown"? Elan Vital is a registered non-profit organization in the US. Elan Vital and The Prem Rawat Foundation, as any other website that belongs to a company or organization, that compnay or organization is responsible for its contents and therefore the author. Ex-premie.org belongs to "John Brauns. Limbazi Pagasts, VL-4011, Latvia" as reported by whois. John Brauns is reponsible for the content of that site, as he is the registered owner. In both cases ownership is well established. Content of the site is authored by the owner or commissioned by the owner or written by someone else if that someone else cares to sign a piece written on that site, or if it is attributed to someone else. It is pretty evident, isn't it? You may need a crash course in intellectual property law, legal liability and the World Wide Web...≈ jossi ≈ 01:58, August 13, 2005 (UTC)
:::Just thought I would report here that someone just sent a support request to Lunar Pages, the hosts of Forum8.org, using my name and email address, with a question about updating the technical contact in the Network Solutions database. Such support requests and responses are published on Lunar Pages website (a copy of the response was sent to me which is how I know about it). I assume whoever did this was trying to trick Lunar Pages into revealing confidential information. They didn't, and the support ticket was deleted at my request.  --John Brauns 09:40, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia, including these pages are not the place for uncorroborated accusations.  Removed. --ZappaZ  20:10, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Zappaz, please be careful with removing information from talk pages. That is generally frowned upon, unless it is clearly a personal attack. Andries 20:31, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: That was a personal attack. So will you delete your personal attack against me. I am still waiting. --ZappaZ  02:04, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  website ownership