Talk:Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam/Archive 5

message: The map of sri lanka in the articakl is completely wrong according to that whole eastern province is governed by LTTE
I believe the LTTE military section is highly lacking to say the least (currently its just 5 lines). There is lots of info on this subject and it puzzles me why its not included/referenced here. As a first step, I propose chalking out an outline for the subsection and what needs to be included. Anyone with a military background (you know who you are) think should have a great deal of say on this. Trincomanb 13:30, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thats great, I will get some additional references on this. I know one was floated around a while back on this forum, but can't seem to find it. An article like the Kargil War got to become a featured article and I think we can strive to achieve something simillar. Trincomanb 17:12, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Finally a good move forward, away from unproductive intro wars. I can look into the LTTE special forces section. Elalan 17:51, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Military Section

message: The two issues that remain are:
1) the ban in the intro: should the countries that have banned the LTTE be listed explicitly, and if so, should those who have not also be listed? The most logical solution is to leave the ban in the "Proscription" subsection, and go back to the minimalist one-sentence intro. If the ban absolutely has to go in the intro, something like
: 29 countries have banned the LTTE
is really all you need. That wording makes clear a) 29 countries must be more than just South Asian neighbors; and b) over 160 have not issued a ban, since there are more than 200 countries in the world. If you really insist on spelling all that out in detail, put it in the Proscription subsection.
2) The Recent Events section: the words "LTTE would not gain anything by upsetting Pakistan". The citation there now does not say this. This phrase is original research unless backed by a link.
Please, no one start a debate on whether, in fact, the LTTE would or not upset Pakistan. The issue is whether anyone outside Wikipedia, that we can cite, has said that.
-Tyronen 18:56, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That "29 countries have banned the LTTE" would be the best solution I think. The ban should be there, but we dont need to list the countries in the intro, and by stating 29 countries it implies that lots of countries has not banned it. So both parties should be able to live with this. Then there is an expanded coverage further down... Ulflarsen 20:51, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Its a fact that 161 countries, including the UN have not proscribed the LTTE at the moment. Not everyone knows there are 191 countries in the UN. If GOSL supporters want to insist on bringing the proscription issue into the intro, then the other side of the story should also be mentioned. Elalan 21:22, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

text:  I would like to see a minimalist intro with no ban and other sentences attached. On the Pakistan issue, the I personally haven't see a reference deducing that claim, but there is a number of references that is along that 'line of thinking'. The wording on this has to be changed to reflect the citations available. Trincomanb 22:09, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Current points of contention

message: The version relating to this which was there for couple of months has been totally rubbished by some users and made a joke
I am pointing out teh faults here
The Sri Lankan government has accused the LTTE of targeting non-military and government targets including the Temple of the Tooth in Kandy, the Dehiwala train 24 and the Central Bank in Colombo.
::Not only the Sri Lankan government , the entire world has pinned this on LTTE Ruchiraw 09:15, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Explain to me how detonating 4 bombs on Dehiwela train filled with commuters is collateral damage. Ditto for truck bombing Central Bank Ruchiraw 09:15, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You don't have any citations or details on the Dehiwela train bomb. For the Central Bank, the target was the bank records within the building, not the civillians within the bank. The US and NATO have targetted telelphone exchanges, television stations, banks etc. Central Bank is a valid government target. Elalan 18:44, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  details of the Dehiwela train bomb http://brcslproject.gn.apc.org/slmonitor/july96/colombo.html   Sencholai 02:58, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Not only the Sri Lankan government , the entire world has pinned this on LTTE Ruchiraw 09:15, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Even the latest SLMM ruling merely gives high probability the LTTE did it, but it doesn't pin it down on the LTTE. No one has proof at the moment. Most of the world doesn't care. It just merely some busy bodies... Elalan 18:44, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

text:  in the central bank , the culprits were splattered all over the building Ruchiraw 09:15, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Were you there at the Central Bank blast ? Was there a proper investigation by the government, did they manage investigate and find out the suspect who carried out the bombing ? The answer is a no. The fact of the matter is the Sri Lankan judiciary and police forces are incompetent. You don't pin a blame on an organization, the minute after it has occured. You do a proper investigation. Elalan 18:44, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

text:  Whats complicated , the entire world holds the LTTE responsible for these attacks including the teh Kebitigollewa attack now . Its only the LTTE which denies it.Ruchiraw 09:15, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Even the latest SLMM ruling merely gives high probability the LTTE did it, but it doesn't pin it down on the LTTE. As for the claymore attacks carried out against Tamil civillians, they are very sure the Sri Lankan Government forces did it, because a couple of them got caught alive and were interviewed by the SLMM, the rest were caught with their pants down...dead! Elalan 18:44, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

text: This user Tamiland is quite the joker! I suspect he/she is a sockpuppet of somebody else within the GOSL side. The reason is because this person never answers any comments left on his talk page and remains quiet and starts throwing in these wild intro when something erupts between the two sides. This user is constantly watching these events and hence The intention is to create disruption here. Elalan 18:48, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalisation of Attacks on Civilians

message: Everyone note that there is now a Sri Lanka notice board to list Sri Lanka-related article people want created, expanded, or improved. Please make good use of it. Tyronen 02:39, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In case someone blames me for editing other people's comments. I have just inserted a space above the comments of this anonymous user so that it is formatted properly. Elalan 03:12, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Notice board

message: I'm not going to get into other details of this article, I've given up it's to hotly debated
But that line 'the UN only has a list for groups related to al-queda...'
It appears twice in the article and I think it's inapropriate for the opening heading, it adds nothing to the introduction of what the tamil tigers is. --Sharz 03:27, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree the mention of Al Qaeda and Taliban is unnecessary in the intro. To keep it as simple as possible, the UN has not banned the LTTE is sufficient. Elalan 19:04, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: UN List

message: I think it is important to note that Jo Becker came under sever criticism after she filed the HRW report, which was instrumental in the LTTE proscription in Canada. Many accused that she was a new inexperienced analyst and used a very small "data set" to conclude her findings. Most of these were apparantly anti-LTTEers. Although many claim that these statements came from pro-LTTEers, I believe this is a point worth researching further, particularly because the recent events in Sri Lanka has shown evidence that the LTTE has large support from the Tamil diaspora who protested against the GOSL and in favor of LTTE. It is also interesting to note that in a recent PBS interview (http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov2006/nomoretears/special_hrw.html) Jo Becker seems to have altered her views sligtly saying:In the 1990s, some experts estimated that 90 percent of the Tamil Tigers' military budget came from overseas sources, including the Tamil community. Many Tamils willingly give financial contributions to the Tamil Tigers and actively support their struggle. However, other Tamils are subject to intimidation and harassment, and are told that if they do not give money, they may not be able to return to Sri Lanka to visit their families.. - Anonymous, 02:25, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: HRW was forced to clarify some of its statements. It was forced to admit that report was of a 'qualitative nature' rather than of a 'quantitative nature', hence it was not a statistical study. HRW couldn't say whether this extortion was widespread. Extortion is a criminal offence in many countries and so charges could be laid. However there were no complaints made nor charge laid by the police in these respective countries even in followup to this report. The lack of followup by police does make the report look suspect. If there isn't evidence to lay charges, then is the evidence worthwhile ? Also Sri Lankan FM knew of the report 1 week or so prior to being released. There was also a report that mentioned somewhere that an ENDLF cadre had given evidence to the HRW report and that he was later arrested in Switzerland during the Geneva conference for past history of drug smuggling. I was planning on doing a followup on this Trincomanb 03:13, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Extortion

message: i came hear to read about LTTE, not one mans point of view there's no denying the fact its been classed as terrorist Organization so to HAMAS. Document does not have LTTE's command structures, division within LTTE, This doument does not tell me any other then which i know, i would like to findout more about the Organization, then the authors point of view.
:This article is a compilation of what the various contributors know about the LTTE, and we have tried our best to keep it as neutral and balanced as possible. If you have any other information you are welcome to contribute to the article. As there are different views regarding the LTTE it would be good if you publish any large changes to the article here first, so they can be discussed before adding them to the article itself. Ulflarsen 17:47, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually Ulflarsen, since this page is proteceted, in order to make changes you've got to contact an admin. But I agree with what you say. We should discuss things here before making major changes to the article. --snowolfD4(  talk /  @ ) 18:02, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: LTTE

message: This article details the recent child abductions by the LTTE. According to UNICEF, 5,666 in number since 2002.
When the protection is removed this bit should be added to the article. --snowolfD4(  talk /  @ ) 22:01, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Lahiru k, I guess you meant LTTE sympathisers. Addhoc 10:38, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well its say according to UNICEF, but why not use a UNICEF press release if there is one, than these secondary sources ? If there is no UNICEF report or press release confirming this, then this is another reporters imagination run wild. Trincomanb 00:52, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Interesting article

message: Does anyone have (or could they scan) a much better quality (read: larger) image of the LTTE logo? I'd like to make a proper svg version of the flag, but I cannot find a logo of great enough resolution to start the process with. └ OzLawyer / talk ┐ 01:31, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: LTTE logo / Tamil Eelam flag

message: . BhaiSaab talk 05:02, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Tamil Tigers blamed again

message: http://www.tamilcanadian.com/page.php?cat=472&id=2667
BBC Colombo Correspondent Chris Morris interviewed Vellupillai Prabhakarn, leader of Tamil Eelam - in Jaffna on 1st September 1991. This is one of the Questions Chris Morris Asked and the Answer given by Prabhakarn.
Q: Now I know you have denied any involvement in the assassination of Rajiv Gandhi. But the Indian investigators are convinced that you were responsible. In another development, your representative in London, Kittu, has been expelled by the British government. Aren’t you concerned that international opinion is turning totally against you?
A: Our movement is not in any way involved in the killing of Mr. Rajiv Gandhi. So far this accusation has not been corroborated. It is true that the government of India has been engaged in a massive disinformation campaign against our movement, based on this false accusation.
Tchild 06:02, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: LTTE Leader denied any involvement in assasination of Rajiv Gandhi

message: http://www.hindu.com/2006/06/28/stories/2006062812890100.htm
The Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) has said that it deeply regretted the May 21, 1991 assassination of the former Prime Minister, Rajiv Gandhi, and described it as a "monumental historical tragedy."
Anton Balasingham, LTTE's chief negotiator and ideologue, told NDTV: "As far as that event Rajiv assassination is concerned, I would say it is a great tragedy, a monumental historical tragedy for which we deeply regret and we call upon the Government of India and the people of India to be magnanimous to put the past behind and to approach the ethnic question in a different perspective."
Without referring directly to the LTTE's recognised role in Rajiv Gandhi's assassination, Mr. Balasingham went beyond what LTTE chief Velupillai Prabakaran said at his April 10, 2002 press conference. At the time, Mr. Prabakaran had said about the assassination: "This is a tragic incident that took place 10 years ago. We don't want to comment further on it."
Tchild 06:04, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Rajiv assassination "deeply regretted": LTTE

message: http://news.webindia123.com/news/Articles/India/20060920/456668.html
R. Sampanthan, leader of a five-member delegation of the Tamil National Alliance (TNA) that has come here to meet Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, told a meeting at the Indian Council for World Affairs that this might soon become a reality.
"LTTE (Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam) having made a start (in this direction), they will have to move forward and make the people of India appreciate that they deeply regret this incident," Sampanthan said, referring to the May 1991 killing of Gandhi by a LTTE woman suicide woman bomber near Chennai.
"In due course of time that will become a reality," he added.
Tchild 06:09, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Your point being ? Trincomanb 00:50, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: LTTE will have to ''deeply regret'' Gandhi killing: TNA

message: Under IPKF period the article says
After negotiations, India and Sri Lanka entered into an agreement whereby Sri Lanka agreed to a federal structure, which would grant autonomy to the Tamils.
There is a factual error in it. Under the Indo-Lanka accord it was agreed to devolve power to a provincial entity under the Unitary constitution of Sri Lanka and NOT to a federal structure. The Central Government had a veto power on anything decided at the Provincial Council level. This is the main reason for LTTE not accepting the Indo-Lanka accord.
Wern 08:04, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Indo-Lanka accord NOT federal

message: Please add Assassinations of prominent Sri Lankan Tamils attributed to the LTTE as a main link article in the section where assasinations of moderate Tamils are discussed. Thanks RaveenS 00:54, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Declined. Considering that you're the only editor on this two day old article in question, I'm going to have to insist that you have the consensus of your fellow editors here first. --   Netsnipe   ►  11:23, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think the article has verifiable info. It is merely a list of accussations attributed to one party and would be considered a POV fork. There is enough of this stuff in the LTTE article as it is and will be a further loss to wikipedia. Elalan 17:38, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Edit protected request

message: The history of LTTE reveals a discernible pattern in its relations with religious institutions: it has ruthlessly attacked and killed Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists but hardly ever touched Christians. It has never confronted the Churches the way it has taken on the other three main religionists.
In fact, it has had a very cozy relationship with the Churches.
In any case there has been no necessity for the LTTE to act against the Churches because they have been the backbone of LTTE politics in Western countries.
Tamil Christian priests have infiltrated the Churches in Western countries and through them they propagated pro-LTTE politics.
LTTE has found in the international network of the Churches easy access to Western media, politicians, churches and other powerful lobbies to cover-up their crimes against humanity.
The Churches too find it necessary to tie up with the LTTE (1) to weaken the Sinhala-Buddhist community for conversions (2) to prevent the Church breaking up on ethnic lines (3) to win converts to the Churches in the guise of being their best political allies and (4) to break up the state which would help them to establish a separate church and hierarchy of their own. Under (4), for instance, the Tamil Catholic need not go the Pope through the Sinhala Bishops in Colombo. Under (4) the ambitions of the Church and the LTTE coincide. In this and in other respects, both fulfill each other’s needs.
:: First off, please sign your name to comments, without it you look like the hundreds that get onto this page for the sole purpose of bashing the LTTE.
Secondly, Yes I have to agree that the LTTE is not a Hindu organisation, HOWEVER, it is not Christian either, it is in a fact non-religous but based on Tamil as a race
As for the 'infiltration of churches' 'crimes against humanity', though these accusations are unfounded, the same would have to be mentioned for the government setting up and funding 'neutral' lobby groups in Malaysia and Singapore to ban the LTTE in countries (most specifically in Australia)
Also, as for Muslims, yes there has been great amount of anomosity between the Tigers and the Sri Lankan Muslims, but this is based on traditional alliance of the Muslim people (Singalese and Tamil) to the Government rather than to the Tigers.
Per sai, this arguement that the Tamil Tigers weilds the Church as a weapon is a falsehood, though the Church may be more alligned to the Tigers based purely on the fact that the vast majority of Christians in Sri Lanka also happen to be Christian due to the Tamils being found in the North-East of Sri Lanka, areas with the highest amount of Anglo-Dutch cultural assimilation. --Sharz 01:35, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: LTTE is not a Hindu organization

message: The section about the ceasefire is too long for this article.  In places it presents a day-by-day account of what was happening in the conflict in Sri Lanka.  But all this is only ancillarily relevant to a main article about the LTTE.  I think we should move all this information to a separate article on the ceasefire itself, and then have one or two paragraphs here summarising everything that happened. -- Ponnampalam 18:28, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In addition, some sections seemed to be repeated twice.  Elalan 00:51, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ceasefire 2001-2006 

message: This article is the topic of a mediation case, and I have accepted the case. It is located at Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-08-05 LTTE. If you can please take a look at the case and let us hear your side, I would appreciate it. Thanks! Nwwaew(My talk page) 21:26, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Mediation over this article

message: Since discussing the intro further seems pointless I have requeasted Mediation Cabal to take a look at it. Those who wish can contribute here. Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-10-20 Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam . --snowolfD4(  talk /  @ ) 21:31, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mediation Cabal 

message: From Wikipedia:Guide to layout:
:If the subject of the article has more than one name, each new form of the name should be in bold on its first appearance.
I figured it'd be best to play it safe after the warnings of edit wars, but is there any reason not to bold Tamil Tigers in the intro?  It's a commonly used alternate name- I know I've certainly never heard of the full name before and reached here via the redirect.  It seems like a simple formatting gaffe lost in the shuffle to me, but maybe there are deep political issues with that name.  SnowFire 04:16, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. Addhoc 11:08, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bolding of Tamil Tigers.