Talk:Fraktur

message: Note: dates for "Emperor Maximilian I (1493-1519)" do not match up with dates for Maximilian I: are there two of them?
:The dates in this article are the dates he ruled, so I've added an 'r.' to indicate that. -- Someone else 20:23 May 12, 2003 (UTC)
I really don't think "Blackletter" should redirect here... --Furrykef 07:35, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)

message: "During that time, new, more artificial Fraktur typefaces were designed".  How can a font be "more artificial"?  Someone should rewrite this clearer.
 I believe that the assertion of typeface commissions for script-hands is quite misleading here sense both Blackletter and Fractura are are formal chancery, They evolved as a natural progression from Gothic and Bastarde. Furthermore, to say that there is any Roman connection or even Caroline per se is gross to the point of insultingly racist and naive.
The Royal Academy has confirmed that the Uncial is of North African origin it evolved into the insular form and later the caroline which benevethian and corbal scripts modified leading to a Gothic quest for a more mechanical and uniform hand. Thus the textura and quadrata terminals and ligatures were modified to clear up the Dominius factor which is the intention of the Bastarde. Independently when writting either the Textura:"web"or Quadrata the letters minu, ominii in dominus becomes obscure. 
As for the Roman contention, note in the examples of  the Neudorffers A,D,E,F,H,K,M,N,P,Q,T,V, are not based on Roman letters but the Uncial, and likely some Vandels connection post the 3rd Punic War. I can imagine how this might have been a shock to Nazis, but the Fractura was still a common sight during the 2nd World War, and you need only look at roadsigns to confirm that fact. However I am not clear on when the cursive german call Der Kurrant went out of favour and this may be the open Nazi angst.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by MicPowell (talk • contribs) 05:16, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "More Artificial" 

message: I'm confused by this:
The article says Fraktur was supported by Nazi policy until 1945, but it also says that it was denounced in 1941.  Was it only supported by Nazi policy until 1941? -Theshibboleth 8 July 2005 15:45 (UTC)
Perhaps Antiqua-Fraktur_dispute, could help ... --217.231.212.137 23:00, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  !941? 1945? 

message: Is this font (typeface) used sometimes in Christmas Cards?  What is a better type face to use that looks 'Old-tyme' Christmassy without the racist conections? --RPlunk 17:24, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no idea. Just to remind you: It were the nazis who abolished this script accusing it of being Jewish. ― j. 'mach' wust | ✑ 07:25, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Christmas Cards? 

message: Among a number of old German books I have in Fraktur is a copy of Mein Kampf printed in 1935 and identified on the title page as the 151st edition. It seems ironic that the Nazis would actually have banned the font used by their idol in his supposedly seminal — if revolting and essentially unreadable — work. Just an observation. (Let me assure you, this tome interests me only as a historical artifact.) Sca 03:41, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: ''Mein Kampf''

message: The SVG version of that image misses the fraktur column, which would be important for this article. Srrrgei (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 01:25, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  SVG version of [File:Gebrochene_Schriften.png] 

message: This article varies between using "Fraktur" vs "fraktur".  I'm no expert on [Ff]raktur (neither historically nor just graphically), so I have no idea whether it's a good/bad idea to change every instance of "[space]fractur" to "[space]Fraktur".  Maybe someone knowledgeable can tackle this.  sburke@cpan.org (talk) 08:21, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I consulted an Oxford dictionary (Oxford American Dictionary) and found only the upper-case listed. It seems best to stick with upper-case Fraktur by analogy with Schwabacher, Textura, Antiqua, etc. — ℜob C. alias ÀLAROB 18:08, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

text: Fixed, except for an instance of "fraktur" in the title of a Norwegian reference. — ℜob C. alias ÀLAROB 18:16, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: "Fraktur" vs "fraktur"

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I can't parse this sentence in the lead: "From this, Fraktur is sometimes contrasted with the "Latin alphabet" in northern European texts, which is sometimes called the "German alphabet", simply being a typeface of the Latin alphabet." Huh? Could someone who understands this please break it up into multiple clearly written sentences? Kaldari (talk) 17:31, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Can't parse this sentence 

message: In Unicode, the characters ℭ U+212D, ℌ U+210C, ℑ U+2111, ℜ U+211C, and ℨ U+2128 are separate from the mathematical Fraktur characters. The Fraktur letters (excluding the bold versions) are: 𝔄𝔅𝔇𝔈𝔉𝔊𝔍𝔎𝔏𝔐𝔑𝔒𝔓𝔔𝔖𝔗𝔘𝔙𝔚𝔛𝔜𝔞𝔟𝔠𝔡𝔢𝔣𝔤𝔥𝔦𝔧𝔨𝔩𝔪𝔫𝔬𝔭𝔮𝔯𝔰𝔱𝔲𝔳𝔴𝔵𝔶𝔷.
The code points for the capital C, H, I, R, and Z are reserved. In the article's bottom section, though, these places are replaced by ℭ, ℌ, ℑ, ℜ, and ℨ but these characters are different. They're under the label "BLACK-LETTER" and are part of the Letterlike Symbols block, while the Fraktur ones are from Mathematical Alphanumeric Symbols.  The Old Macintosh (talk) 15:46, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: In the Unicode model, Fraktur is just another typeface. Should you want to set some text in Fraktur, you would just use . The mathematical set were provided because of a particular mathematical need. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 16:24, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: "Just" in scare quotes because few readers will have a compatible font installed. So if, as in this article, you want to communicate about Fraktur, the mathematical and blackletter set provides a limited means to do so. (And even then, their system may not even have a generic fallback font like Noto.) The same issue arises with Gaelic type (q.v.). 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 16:40, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unicode characters ℭ U+212D, ℌ U+210C, ℑ U+2111, ℜ U+211C, ℨ, U+2128 are not Fraktur 

message: I removed this note in the text:

Why?-- Carnby (talk) 07:09, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I couldn't make sense of it either. I started to convert it to a footnote but decided best leave it for someone else. I don't know any German (beyond ) but I speculated that Fraktur didn't use the two dots umlaut but rather its predecessor, a little 'e'. Wild guess! --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 09:30, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Weird note 

message: A 1906 German newspaper in St. Louis, Missouri, was apparently typeset entirely in Fraktur. Check this out: </ref> jp×g🗯️ 19:41, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: jp×g🗯️ 19:44, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: There were/are a lot of German Missouri Synod Lutherans in St. Louis and Perry County. 209.54.4.42 (talk) 21:17, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Found some in the wild 

message: It seems to me that the best examples for comparison would be calligraphic hand-written Fraktur and calligraphic hand-written Italic. This would show the contrast between the styles much more clearly than typeset examples. Certainly there are handmade examples of both types by Hermann Zapf, but those are under copyright as far as I know. TooManyFingers (talk) 18:23, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: To the best of my understanding, fraktur is first and foremost a typeface class. Using a handwritten sample would be inadequate, just as inadequate as using a handwritten sample for the antiqua. Sure, both typeface classes were originally derived from handwritten forms, but for half a millenium, their development and refinement has happened in the medium of typefaces. --mach 🙈🙉🙊 22:15, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Desirable example? 

message: Concordia Publishing House, the publishing arm of The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod, was still printing German Fraktur Bibles, hymn books, and catechisms in St. Louis, MO until approximately 100 years ago. That no doubt dwindled because of World War I but they still produced them until around 1920. 209.54.4.42 (talk) 21:15, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Additional 20th Century Use