Talk:Santa Fe Trail

message: This page is an excellent start.  Can't wait for more additions.  I wonder if the following quote needs clarification, "First used in 1821 by William Becknell".  Becknell first used it for commercial purposes.  But did he really use it first!?  I think Native Americans used it first.  Maybe they didn't travel all the way from Santa Fe to Missouri in one journey.  But they certainly 'paved' the way.  Just my 2 cents here.
Pommerenke 22:14, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Traveling all the way seems very unlikely. Why would they have gone from an American city to a Mexican one? Meanwhile, Becknell did certainly travel the entire way. The point doesn't seem terribly debatable, although perhaps someone could add weasel words like "documented" or "known." -LlywelynII (talk) 20:29, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  William '''Becker''' 'First used???', minor point

message: This should be merged with the main text:
[In 1821] Missouri trader William Becknell  Santa Fe, New Mexico and sells his merchandise for a huge profit (he immediately planned to return the following year over a route that became known as the Santa Fe Trail.
== Movie Date Verification ==:RJBurkhart|RJBurkhart]] 21:05, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Text from [[1821]]

message: This was a trade route.  It would be nice to have some explanation of what was sold by the Americans and what by the Mexicans they came to trade with.Historicist (talk) 13:06, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: And its value. Quite. -LlywelynII (talk) 20:30, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

text: This seems like it should have a description somewhere, but I could only find a description of the first few trips, where regular supplies (eg, American calicoes and fabric) sold profitably for Mexican silver owing to New Mexico's distance and poor supply from the South. But surely the New Mexican market wasn't all that large. -LlywelynII (talk) 20:58, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: New Mexico Office of the State Historian by William H. Wroth has the rudimentary details of the trade. Basically, starting in the 1820s economically useful manufactured items were moved west, many of these goods actually moved further south towards Mexico's population centers. Traders heading back east took with them furs, livestock and Spanish gold coin, which was easily interchangeable with Spanish silver coin, the legal tender of the United States at the time. In the 1840s traders advertised and carried west with them spades, hoes, cutlery, textiles, "drugs, paint, tinware, and stationery, as well as several kinds of brandy and champagne"Synchronism (talk) 21:52, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Economics

message: Doesn't seem to have economic data or comparison with waterborne trade at first glance, but this book from Gutenberg's seems to have plenty of other filler that might be added to the article. -LlywelynII (talk) 20:36, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Expansion

message: The map of the Santa Fe Trail (drawn by a WP editor?) included in this article has several inaccuracies:
# The "canals" shown crossing New Jersey and Pennsylvania are fictitious
# Taos and Santa Fe are shown far to the north of their actual locations, with the result that...
# The western section of the trail route is shown too far to the north
WCCasey (talk) 16:43, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: In addition the trail’s eastern terminus should be Franklin, Missouri not Independence. Grey Wanderer (talk) 06:03, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Any changes to the trail need to 1) have reliable sources, and 2) include revision of the map graphic. WCCasey (talk) 17:36, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Franklin, Missouri is the undisputed start of the trail, it shouldn't be this hard to correct simple errors, I have provided sources although there were none for Independence. Some years ago the city of Independence undertook a marketing campaign to promote itself as the start of the trail, so sometimes you see that misrepresentation around the web. Examining academic sources, and the long list of further reading will demonstrate this is incorrect. There is no requirement for the map to be updated, we shouldn't leave falsehoods in place just because the map not so good. Here is a link to a map made by the preeminent research association for the trail. If somebody wants they can update the map. Grey Wanderer (talk) 18:31, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  This map book starts around Franklin https://archive.org/details/santafenationalh00santa/page/n3 • Sbmeirow • Talk • 18:47, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

text:  Page 4 of this book says something about Independence. https://archive.org/details/santafetrailbrie00unse_2 • Sbmeirow • Talk • 09:48, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice source, It’s a fascinating history. The first European settlement into central Missouri used the Boone's Lick Road overland from the St. Louis area to settle the region along the Missouri River that became known at the Boonslick as early at 1810! After the War of 1812 William Becknell and others in Franklin, Missouri realized they were ideally positioned to connect the fledgling United States with the New Spain. The mules they obtained from the Spanish on that first trip are the origin of famous Missouri mule. As steamboats finally ascended he Missouri and settlement spread West along the river, the departure point for trading caravans also moved west, first to Independence, then to Westport, and eventually to Kansas City, all major points of departure not only for the Santa Fe Trail, but later the Mormon, Oregon, California Trails. St. Joseph became a point of departure on the later trails, but not for long as the railroad soon arrived. Kansas Citys’ foresight to build the first bridge over the Missouri is probably the single greatest reason it’s the regional metropolis of today and not St. Joe or Indepdence. I’ll try to incoportate some of this history in the article. Grey Wanderer (talk) 15:41, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trail map problems