Talk:Queen Charlotte (1785 ship)

message: Guujaaw was just on a CTV show - Val Pringle's travel show - and he says/claims that the Queen Charlotte dropped off someone with smallpox that wiped out 80% of the island's population.  he made it sound like this was the only epi8demic, and the only ship to do so - as it was part of the haida GWaii vs QCI name thing that he raised it.  His testimony is citable only as a claim anyway, unless mayb e in Cole Harris' Resettlement of British Columbia or even deep in Howay or Bancroft this incident is mentioned.  But to me it sounded like Guujaaw was shooting the collective mouth off.....Skookum1 (talk) 16:09, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Saw this old comment and quickly looked into the topic. The best I found in my short search was this book: The coming of the spirit of pestilence: introduced infectious diseases and population decline among Northwest Coast Indians, 1774-1874, Robert Thomas Boyd (1999). The first well documented smallpox epidemics among the Haida were in 1836 and 1862. Less well documented is a smallpox epidemic in "the late 1700s". There are a number of accounts of traders noting the scars and smallpox among adults and hearing tales indicating an epidemic probably sometime around the late 1780s into the 1790s. From page 267: "The North Coast epidemic area comprised of the Tlingit, the Haida, the Tsimshian people, the Haisla, and the Nuxalk..all of whom experienced three important smallpox epidemics, in the late 1700s, 1836, and 1862." On page 53 there is a mention of the possibility that George Dixon's visit in 1787 introduced smallpox. Somewhat paraphrased: "oral traditions of the Haida...several myths...spirit translated as "Pestilence"...associated with smallpox..." And full quote: "Erna Gunther (1972:121) cited one [Pestilence spirit story] that she thought was a recollection of the 1787 visit of explorer George Dixon." I did a quick search for Gunther's 1972 text but didn't find it. Also of note is the strong evidence of earlier smallpox epidemics among the Tlingit in the region around Sitka. Estimated dates include 1770 and 1775-1777. Whether it spread to the Haida is unclear. The book also points out the dates and places of early coastal contact with Europeans, from which smallpox might have been acquired. The Queen Charlotte Islands were first visited in 1774 by Juan Perez, then in 1778 by James Cook, then in 1787 by George Dixon. Nearby Bucareli Bay, which as I understand was at least partially within Haidi territory, was visited by Bodega y Quadra in 1775 (with little if any contact with indigenous people), and, in 1779, by Quadra and Arteaga. The 1779 visit was at least a month long and involved prolonged contact with large numbers of indigenous people. In short, according to this apparently well researched book, the possibility that Dixon's 1787 visit caused the Haida's first smallpox epidemic is quite possible. But due to uncertainty about the date of the epidemic it is impossible to say for sure. It might have been earlier and caused by Cook, Perez, or Quadra's visits to Prince of Wales Island. Or it might have been latter and caused by who knows what maritime fur trading ship. But, it may be worth mentioning the possible connection with Dixon, especially if the 1972 Erna Gunther source can be found it might offer something more substantial. It would be interesting to see why she (or is Erna a he?) thought that the oral tradition story "was a recollection" of Dixon's visit. Pfly (talk) 08:55, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: this ship and smallpox

message: Re what was taken out here as unsourced, and was amateurish in tone anyway, I think I've heard of - i.e. a ship's bell being all that survives of a certain ship, though I'm not famliar enough wit the story to say if it was the Queen Charlotte.  Some wrecks were discovered a hundred years or more after their demise....so while it's uncited for now, itw as worth noting here as I recall someone previously tried to add it to this page also.  The bit about the rediscovered vessel being destroyed "because of its history" (its negative associations, I guess) also rings a bell....so to speak...Skookum1 (talk) 03:47, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: The bell....