Talk:Eastern Lombard grammar

message: Hi Gio, what an efficiency! I can't even finish to write and you already have executed! Eastern Lombard efficiency, I would say...
The introduction you wrote for the grammar is absolutely excellent. I hope to find the time to contribute more in the next future.
Ciao, --Ninonino 18:46, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good job! 

message: I added a section on the articles. Please, have a look and correct it. Plus, I ran out of examples, particularly for the plural form of the indefinite articles. For that, at the beginning I thought about adding a section about partitive, as in French, but I am not really sure about that. Now, I used this 'minimalist' but we may include a part on partitive if we know how to deal with it. --Gio' 11:44, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Articles 

message: === syntactic ===
I really like to add a part about some peculiar syntactic structure. for example, meherès, bisognerebbe in Italian, it's very interesting. Do you say that? and do you have an idea where it comes from?
Or, gho gnamò de comprà la turta (I have not bought the cake yet) but literally  I have yet to buy the cake (?!).
And what aboutghè, in the sense of there is. It's something like hay in Spanish (but I don't know Spanish that well). and the past is ghèra?
Meherès is totally new for me. Never heard before. It is evidently a conditional mood of a verb that have lost the rest of the conjugation throughout the evolution of the language.
Gó gnamò de.. is not used in my area. I heard it from a friend from Berlingo. We would say Gó amò de comprà or Gó gnamò compràt
Ghè is absolutely consistent with the explanation we gave in the article about the -ga particle. In this case is the verb véser or better vésega instead of ìga.
Ghè can be analyzed as ga + è. If we make correspond ga to the italian ci, we obtain c'è. The same is valid for ghéra = ga + éra = c'era.
Nothing to do with Spanish hay that is a particular form of the verb to have (not to be like us). The same is for the French il y a, that also uses the verb to have. --Ninonino 13:31, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Peculiar construction 

message: I really like to add a part about some peculiar syntactic structure. for example, meherès, bisognerebbe in Italian, it's very interesting. Do you say that? and do you have an idea where it comes from?
Or, gho gnamò de comprà la turta (I have not bought the cake yet) but literally  I have yet to buy the cake (?!).
And what aboutghè, in the sense of there is. It's something like hay in Spanish (but I don't know Spanish that well). and the past is ghèra?
Meherès is totally new for me. Never heard before. It is evidently a conditional mood of a verb that have lost the rest of the conjugation throughout the evolution of the language.
Gó gnamò de.. is not used in my area. I heard it from a friend from Berlingo. We would say Gó amò de comprà or Gó gnamò compràt
Ghè is absolutely consistent with the explanation we gave in the article about the -ga particle. In this case is the verb véser or better vésega instead of ìga.
Ghè can be analyzed as ga + è. If we make correspond ga to the italian ci, we obtain c'è. The same is valid for ghéra = ga + éra = c'era.
Nothing to do with Spanish hay that is a particular form of the verb to have (not to be like us). The same is for the French il y a, that also uses the verb to have. --Ninonino 13:31, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  syntactic 

message: I was told that in Lumezzane the bicycle is called bèsa-cagna (biscia-cagna), the bus bès·cia blö (blue beast). Probably, it is not true, do you know anything about that, or other examples?
Oh, it's absolutely true. They also call the radio ol cahitù che bajòca. Lumezzane is a real parallel univers! It would be funny to have 
contributor from there... eh eh. --Ninonino 13:12, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: lexical

message: In the pronouns list in my opinion you are merging clitic and non-tonic pronouns.
I mean, clitic are:
me cànte
te ta càntet
lü el cànta
nóter cantóm
vóter cantìf
lur i cànta
while non-tonic are:
a mé ma pjas
a té ta pjas
a lü ga pjas
a nóter ga pjas (also: a noter ma pjas)
a vóter va pjas
a lur ga pjas
Mmmmh... I used the term non-tonic but it is evidently wrong. More investigations needed. Pronouns are a little more complicated than you stated in the article. But, it doesn't matter, we have to start from somewhere and I think this is a good basis to start. Good job anyway, Ciao, --Ninonino 19:43, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronouns 

message: Oh my god! We are already in troubles! ;-) 
If we take Brescian as reference, your assertion about i fomne is not true. Here the article 'i' for the feminine is completely unknown. I think that 'le' is more common and widespread than 'i': Mantuan, Cremask and the most part of Brescian speakers uses 'le'. I think you can leave your example and specify that in some areas 'le' is replaced by 'i', that it a curious feature as 'i' is masculine. --Ninonino 13:44, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  I fomne / le fomne 

message: In your example you used ...ne l'órt.... I changed your example because in Brescian we say ...endèl órt..., so it was no longer suitable for the rule you wanted to demonstrate. Ciao --Ninonino 13:47, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  example: ne l'órt 

message: Hi Gio, very good addings. I see you are very active these last days.
I have a remark on the demonstratives. In my area we say:
         	Proximal	Proximal	Distal  	Distal
         	Singular	Plural  	Singular	Plural
Masculine	chèsto  	chèsti  	chèl    	chèi
Feminine 	chèsta  	chèste  	chèla   	chèle
But I suggest not to delete chès·cc, if you want just add chèsti as altenative.
Also, we can say: chèsto pà ché but at the same time chèl pà ché. The meaning remaining the same in both cases and with preference for the second form.
On the contrary we cannot say chèl ché. The situation is similar to italian where one can say: Questo pane qui, Quel pane qui, questo qui but not quello qui.
I also changed the markings for the pronounce trascription as there is no phonemic schwa in Eastern Lombard (I think this is valid for the entire linguistic area, but not sure 100%). --Ninonino 11:39, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Demonstratives 

message: Have a look to these links:
http://commedie-dialettali.sfera.net/   A collection of comedies in Bergamask
http://www.orbilat.com/Languages/Lombard/index.html  Interesting site more for western lombard, but the map of the distribution of the two main varieties is interesting and seems reliable.
http://www.atlantedl.org/brescia/feste/149cigole/merla.htm  Storiella in dialetto di Cigole (interessante l'ortografia). 
If I will find more interesting sites I will attach the link here. Afterwards we can filter them and if that is the case include them in the main article. --Ninonino 12:43, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  References