Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Islam/Shi'a Islam task force

message: === Template:Islam === 	 
*Is our view fairly represented in Template:Islam? as of 04:20, July 31, 2005 (UTC), in the "The fundamental principles", Imamat is not even mentioned, nor any other shia fundamental belif... --Striver 04:22, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Never mind, just created Template:Muslim Beliefs in a rage, and just realized that i hade proposet it here :) --Striver 01:43, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: And Zora removed it from everywhere, since its a "unaccaptable" "abomination". Surprise.--Striver 02:41, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Templates 

message: *Is our view fairly represented in Template:Islam? as of 04:20, July 31, 2005 (UTC), in the "The fundamental principles", Imamat is not even mentioned, nor any other shia fundamental belif... --Striver 04:22, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Template:Islam]] 

message: *Isnt it any Template:Shia or similar? --Striver 22:53, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Template:Shia]] 

message: *Dosnt it sound like a good idea to create one? --Striver 22:53, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Never mind, just created Template:Muslim Beliefs in a rage, and just realized that i hade proposet it here :) --Striver 01:43, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: And Zora removed it from everywhere, since its a "unaccaptable" "abomination". Surprise.--Striver 02:41, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Template:Root and branches of Shia Islam 

message: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Iranian Air Force C-130 crash in Tehran 
Striver 02:41, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: ROLF!

message: Does anyone know how to edit a portal. I tried editing the section on 'Selected Muslims' (tried changing Mulla Sadra article to Imam Taqi's as it is his death aniversary). But it wont change, does any1 know hot to use/edit it? --Khalid! 11:36, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Portal 

message: I think we should let everybody know about this: 	 
 		 
Ayatullah al-Udhma Yusof al-Sanei has just declared suicide bombing as Haram:  	 
--Zereshk 22:41, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Important development

message: Do we have something like Wikipedia:Iranian Wikipedians' notice board in Shi'a wikiproject. Also what's your idia about Wikipedia:WikiProject Shi'a Islam#Reliable sources ?--Sa.vakilian 10:56, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia:WikiProject Shi'a Islam is basicly the same as the Iranian notice board. Or does it lack someting? I appreciate your addition to the main page and added some myself. --Striver 11:13, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

text: One example is Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Shi'a Islam/Biographical articles. Go to the bottom and fill out the "quality" section with one of the appropriate templates. I just added "b-class" to the Ali article, so you can see how i did it. Peace. --Striver 11:22, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Also look at Wikipedia:WikiProject Anglicanism#tasks--Sa.vakilian 11:30, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah. I don't have that problem... You can solve it by going to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Shi'a Islam and opening each link in a new window by right klicking it, then the other pages will load while you are reading one of them. If you install Firefox and use it instead of explorer, then you can open new windows by klicking the middle mouse button and the new windows will open in tabs instead of new windows. --Striver 11:31, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

text: My dear friend! You misunderstood. I mean it's very easier for new wikipedians who aren't familiar with WP to put a list in the main page too.--Sa.vakilian 11:36, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hm, i see... Then maybe we should add a welcome message to guide them through the operation of the project? --Striver 11:42, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Yes of course. You'd better write a "welcome" and I can help you with the issues.--Sa.vakilian 11:52, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Then we can monitor the situation there.--Sa.vakilian 11:56, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Done! Thanks for helping out in making the project better! Peace. --Striver 11:56, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Whould you please add some note about reliability of the sources which has been added to WP:Shi'a like me?--Sa.vakilian 12:03, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Yes, im working on that right now.--Striver 12:04, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Suggestion for Improvement

message: I propose changing the symbol of Shi'a project. 	 
 		 
Panj Tan: This symbole represents Rasoolallah, Amiralmomenin, Hazrate Zahara , Imame Mojtaba and Sayyedoshohada. This symbol is related to Hadith of the Event of the Cloak. This symbol like a hand with open fingers. 	 
	 
I think the zulfiqar isn't a good symble in comparison with (Panj tan): 	 
:1-The "Panj tan" symbol represents our faiths better than zulfiqar. 	 
:2-The people of west have bad idea about the "sword of Islam". 	 
:3-It reinforces the propaganda against Muslims and Shi'a. 	 
--Sa.vakilian 16:49, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You are right, i agree. Ill keep an eye for a better pic. --Striver 17:25, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Is there consensus about this change. I think we let others tell us theirs idea. --Sa.vakilian 03:11, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Some of my friend are graphist. They can make a good symbol for us.--Sa.vakilian 03:11, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: substitution of [[zulfiqar]] symbol by "Five persons" (PANJ TAN) symbol

message: Salam. 	 
Please contribute to an RFC on the Islam template. Template talk:Islam#RFC--Sa.vakilian 03:07, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Islam template

message: You edited:
:(To quote you: "btw, there is not Shi'a and Sunni Guilds, they were renamed some while ago. --Striver 22:54, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Merging

message: Since the article on Shi'a Islam was moved to Shia Islam, shouldn't a bot be run to replace all the Shi'a words with Shia, including the name of this project and all related templates? ← ANAS Talk? 19:56, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello, anybody? - Anas Talk? 17:08, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shia.. 

message: Alright, I hope we can discuss my most recent changes. I totally changed the Shia template around, and made it match stylistically the normal Islam template, but of course kept Zulfiqar. Also, I took out the Twelver specific information. I also redid the Twelvers template, and took out all information that applied to all Shias, as well as gave lots of specific Twelver information. Also, I added Alevi and Alawi as Twelver denominations, and I'm quite willing to fight for that. The Twelver template has a rather pixelated piece of calligraphy with all the Imams names, though only al-Mahdi (AS) is visible.
I would like to mention I believe the Twelver template might be leaning a bit too much towards Usoolism. We'll see what you guys think.
I did an Ismaili template from scratch, and made it size-wise and font-wise close enough to the Twelvers template, but unique enough as well. This is going to take lots of work to get all the information needed for Ismailism as well as weed out the overdone Twelver information being parasites on the generic Shia articles, but hopefully we'll be able to do this. --Enzuru 09:54, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Complete template changes

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thread_title: Changes to the WP:1.0 assessment scheme

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thread_title:  Wikipedia 0.7 articles have been selected for Shi'a Islam 

message: I have been seeing the imaginary pictures of our Imams (A.S.) on their pages. Can we do something about it, since it is absolutely wrong to depict our Imams (A.S.)? I strongly suggest that we should recreate and update the template. I know and understand that wikipedia doesn’t believe in censorship, but still, this shouldn’t give them the excuse to violate our rules, rights, and idea of thoughts. Salman (talk) 16:40, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Pictures of the Imams (A.S.) in the Templates

message: Salam, I am updating an article on the demographics of Muslims, and I am having a hard time finding sources that specify percentages of Shia Muslims (and Sunni Muslims) for most of the countries.  Any reliable sources you all can recommend? --Falastine fee Qalby (talk) 00:39, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources for population statistics 

message: I think we should have a separate portal and project for Shia Islam, considering the fact the there are multiple projects and portals on christian factions. This will allow shia wikipedian's to promote articles related to Shia Islam, and improve the articles.
The Goal of the project will be 
*To provide credible sources regarding history
*To improve articles related to Shia Islam
*To remove nonsense(and vandalism) about Shia Islam
*To expand Shia Islam related stubs
Taqi Haider (talk) 14:18, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Seperat Project and Portal 

message: This message is being sent to each WikiProject that participates in the WP 1.0 assessment system. On Saturday, January 23, 2010, the WP 1.0 bot will be upgraded. Your project does not need to take any action, but the appearance of your project's summary table will change. The upgrade will make many new, optional features available to all WikiProjects. Additional information is available at the WP 1.0 project homepage. — Carl (CBM · talk) 03:54, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  WP 1.0 bot announcement 

message: Version 0.8 is a collection of Wikipedia articles selected by the Wikipedia 1.0 team for offline release on USB key, DVD and mobile phone.  Articles were selected based on their assessed  importance and quality, then article versions (revisionIDs) were chosen for trustworthiness (freedom from vandalism) using an adaptation of the WikiTrust algorithm.
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thread_title:  Shi'a Islam articles have been selected for the Wikipedia 0.8 release 

message: Brothers, I wonder if it's appropriate or not to ask here to find some ops/admins to run my
newly setup wikiportal which is using same interface as this vary wikiportal, so it would be a lot easier for all of us to make participation and very frankly i am looking for sincere friends rather who can devote time to this great cause and Allah will reward them, I am very busy business person and i find it very tough for me to learn PHP and handle this portal all at my own also this portal belong to all of us just like this portal i am willing to run that portal on the basic rules as set by wikipedia.com .. it would include encyclopedia A To Z however i want to conenrate on Religion and Science or in other any information which can be useful to most of the world ... instead time wasting articles which only matters to a very a few people and also that information already available here on wikipedia.com --- So Basic theme of the portal is religious Encyclopedia however any article is acceptable which could be useful to general public thanks regards --www.mahdi.ms 21:50, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  LOOKING ADMINS/OPS FOR HADIPEDIA.COM (MEDIAWIKI BASED) 

message: thumb|This is near Karbala, one of the holiest cities in Shi'i Islamic tradition. Not only are depictions lawful according to the majority of Twelver and Ismaili, they are commonplace even in sacred places such as near this city and Alevi-Bektashi Cem Evi.
I have been seeing the imaginary pictures of our Imams (A.S.) on their pages. Can we do something about it, since it is absolutely wrong to depict our Imams (A.S.)? I strongly suggest that we should recreate and update the template. I know and understand that wikipedia doesn’t believe in censorship, but still, this shouldn’t give them the excuse to violate our rules, rights, and idea of thoughts. Salman (talk) 19:48, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, the usage of this contemporary depiction is odd, and i prefer the use of the name of 'Ali executed in an elegant calligraphic composition.  While I dont agree that it is "wrong" per se, I do think that it would have at least been better to have used an image from a manuscript rather than a contemporary popular poster.Jemiljan (talk) 21:07, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Jemiljan, what can we do in order to erase the imaginery picstures of the Masoom (A.S.).Salman (talk) 19:45, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

text: It is not absolutely wrong to depict Imams according to the highest authority in the Usuli Twelver world, Grand Ayatollah Sistani. In addition, an overwhelming majority of adherents to Ismailism also allow depictions. And these are not contemporary popular posters, these are pictures that are very popular in the Twelver Alevi-Bektashi tradition from my knowledge, and can be found in Cem Evi. Further explanations have been given here, where one can even see a depiction of Husayn ibn Ali in one of the holiest cities in Shi'i Islamic tradition, Karbala. --Enzuru 00:59, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Enzuru, as far as i know, We (the twelver Shi’as) don’t accept Ismailies to be Shi’a (as a matter of fact, some don’t even consider them to be muslims). I regualry visit the offial website pages of Ayatollahs and i have never seen a picture (which is depicting any of the masooms (A.S.)...) nor have i ever seen a statement saying that depicting the pictures of the masoom (A.S.) is valid. Salman (talk) 19:45, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Shia Templates depicting imaginary pictures of the Imams

message: Is the calligraphic lion really a religious symbol of Islamilis/Nizari Islamilis? If yes, can someone please provide a reference? --کاشف عقیل (talk) 00:18, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ismaili Lion? 

message: There is an edit request on Template talk:S-rel that could benefit from the feedback of editors who are part of this WikiProject task force. The edit request can be found here: Template talk:S-rel#Edit request on 27 October 2013. This edit is in regards to the proper spelling of the word "Shia" in the context that it is used on the template. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Steel1943 (talk) 03:48, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Feedback requested for edit request on [[Template:S-rel]] 

message: I primarily have in mind articles like Islamic music. There were two other articles which were just perfect examples and I read them while Wikisurfing yesterday and I'm drawing a total blank now that I'm writing this, but I think we can brainstorm on others. Readers have no way of knowing the view of Shi'ite scholars on various topics on Wikipedia and, due to the Sunni view often being represented as the official view, readers may not even know that different opinions exist.
Can we compile a list of articles where Shia views are not represented? Google Books has a ton of stuff from Brill and other publishers, I'm sure with a little time and effort this can be fixed. MezzoMezzo (talk) 07:11, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Articles which include Sunni views but not Shi'a views 

message: I have proposed a name change at Talk:The Twelve Imams and a split at Talk:Imams of Yemen. I think both proposals will add clarity for the sake of readers but there needs to be more community feedback first. MezzoMezzo (talk) 04:12, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some more suggestions 

message: I've prepared a new to do list. Help with completing it, please. Mhhossein (talk) 05:56, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  To do list 

message: I'm going to nominate The Fourteen Infallibles at WP:FLC. As the guide line suggested, I listed it at peer review before the final nomination. Please consider participating the peer review discussions. Obviously, we are going to discuss the facts based on WP:FLCR not other issues related to the article. Mhhossein (talk) 13:48, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nomination for FL 

message: Demolition of al-Baqi is tagged for merger into Al-Baqi'. Find the discussion at Talk:Al-Baqi'#Merger of Demolition.--Mhhossein talk 05:40, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger of Al-Baqi cemetery 

message: This is a notice about :Category:Shi'a Islam articles needing expert attention, which might be of interest to your WikiProject. It will take a while before the category is populated. There might be as few as one page in the category, or zero if someone has removed the expert request tag from the page.  — Mr. Guye (talk) (contribs)  04:03, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Expert attention 

message: A discussion was started at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Islam#Chart spam concerning a certain editor's spamming of charts onto Shi'a articles. --HyperGaruda (talk) 05:57, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussion about chart spam 

message: Dear all. At WP:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Ashura, the deletion of Portal:Ashura is discussed, as a not sufficiently large topic, and as an abandoned draft. While doing my own homework for this MfD, I came to Portal:Shia Islam. Where I was surprised seeing so few articles effectively used to make the rotations, and also seeing that news are only from November 2018. Please, see this only as a remark from a passerby. Pldx1 (talk) 14:58, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: About portals 

message: There is a discussion on the reliability of Tahdhib al-Tahdhib on the reliable sources noticeboard. If you're interested, please participate at . — Newslinger talk 22:52, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussion of ''[[Tahdhib al-Tahdhib]]'' on the reliable sources noticeboard 

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thread_title:  Request for information on WP1.0 web tool 

message: A discussion is taking place as to whether the article :Peshawar Nights is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Peshawar Nights until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. M Imtiaz (talk · contribs) 17:56, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nomination of [[:Peshawar Nights]] for deletion 

message: Sorry , I know you asked me for suggestions of improvements to this place, but I did have a more general question to members of the project that I want to discuss more urgently.
All this time I have been editing the Religious Biography Infoboxes for Shi'i scholars and have adopted the following standard which I am beginning to now question:
| religion       = Islam
| denomination   = Shi'a
| creed          = Twelver
| jurisprudence  = Ja'fari (Usuli)
Example Here: Abbas Qomi
I list the denomination (Shi'a) and then list the strand of Shi'ism (as in Twelver/Zaidi/Isma'ili etc.) in the creed field. I then put Jurisprudence as "Ja'fari (Usuli)" for Usuli scholars, and "Ja'fari (Akhbari)" for Akhbaris, intending to put "Shaykhi" or "Alevi" for others. Finally I put 'Twelver' in the creed field. This is what I have been doing somewhat consistantly for most if not all Shi'a scholars infoboxes I've been editing. I would like a neat standard for the Shi'a scholars rather than piling everything into the denomination or sometimes the religion field like this (which is unseemly).
Now obviously there are some problems to this. "Usuli" vs "Akhbari" is not merely a fiqhi difference, its also a theological one. Some editors also seem to prefer that I just leave out mentioning "Ja'fari" in the jurisprudence field - but that I think it is the most appropriate thing to put there. 
Also my main problem now is that I am questioning, can 'Twelver' be described as a 'Creed' in the sense this field is used for Sunni scholars? I think this wrongfully evokes the Sunni sense of what creed is, e.g. the Sunni theological schools Ash'ari, Maturidi and Athari and other theological 'Creed'al schools like the Mu'tazilah. Twelver is a theological distinction of Shi'ism but it is very much its own thing - Sunnis from one creed may (and do) recognise other creeds as equally legitimate, thinking of them in a way not dissimilar to the Sunni Jurisprudential schools. I will ask  to confirm that. This is not similar to how 'Twelver' vs 'Zaidi' is viewed in Shi'ism - they are seperate and competing strands of Shi'a Islam that don't recognise each other as schools of orthodoxy. 
I have noticed though that there is a field called 'sect' which would more appropriately be a place to put the distinction "Twelver" vs "Zaidi" etc. Then perhaps "Usuli" or "Akhbari" could be put in the creed box (as this is more analogous to the Sunni distinctions like "Maturidi" vs "Ash'ari") or simply left as they are. Or perhaps this could be moved in a compound fashion into the denomination box e.g. "Twelver Shia" as the denomination? For Isma'ilism this would allow the 'sect' and also 'subsect' box to more appropriately be used for delineating subsects. I am not sure though. 
Here are my proposals:
===Proposal 1===
| religion       = Islam
| denomination   = Shi'a
| sect           = Twelver
| subsect        = 
| creed          = Usuli
| jurisprudence  = Ja'fari
===Proposal 2===
| religion       = Islam
| denomination   = Shi'a
| sect           = Twelver
| subsect        = 
| creed          = 
| jurisprudence  = Ja'fari (Usuli)
===Proposal 3===
| religion       = Islam
| denomination   = Twelver Shi'a
| sect           = 
| subsect        = 
| creed          = Usuli
| jurisprudence  = Ja'fari 
or a variation of this like in 2 we could put Usuli/Akhbari in with Ja'fari as the Jurisprudence like so:
| religion       = Islam
| denomination   = Twelver Shi'a
| sect           = 
| subsect        = 
| creed          = 
| jurisprudence  = Ja'fari (Usuli) 
(Or e.g. list Usuli v Akhbari as in the sect field instead).
The strength of this proposal becomes apparent when we reflect how Isma'ili scholars might be displayed:
| religion           = Islam
| denomination       = Isma'ili Shi'a
| sect               = Musta'li
| subsect            = Tayyibi (Dawoodi Bohra)
| creed              = 
| jurisprudence      =
There may be other ideas that you have too.
Please comment on this issue so we can agree a neat standard for these infoboxes.
ParthikS8 (talk) 20:30, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Religious Biography Infobox Standard for Shi'i Scholars 

message: | religion       = Islam
| denomination   = Twelver Shi'a
| sect           = 
| subsect        = 
| creed          = Usuli
| jurisprudence  = Ja'fari 
or a variation of this like in 2 we could put Usuli/Akhbari in with Ja'fari as the Jurisprudence like so:
| religion       = Islam
| denomination   = Twelver Shi'a
| sect           = 
| subsect        = 
| creed          = 
| jurisprudence  = Ja'fari (Usuli) 
(Or e.g. list Usuli v Akhbari as in the sect field instead).
The strength of this proposal becomes apparent when we reflect how Isma'ili scholars might be displayed:
| religion           = Islam
| denomination       = Isma'ili Shi'a
| sect               = Musta'li
| subsect            = Tayyibi (Dawoodi Bohra)
| creed              = 
| jurisprudence      =
There may be other ideas that you have too.
Please comment on this issue so we can agree a neat standard for these infoboxes.
ParthikS8 (talk) 20:30, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposal 3

message: Hello. The reliable sources you've given for Twelver Shi'a viewpoint: the 5th and 7th links are sending me to a weird IDN poker website something, it is not an islamic website. And, the link in 6th, the "books" link and the 8th "imamreza" link are blank. They also are also not working. Please fix these. Izan Mehdi. (talk) 03:27, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reliable sources links not working.