Talk:Lensman series

message: Somwhere in my garage is my set of Lensman books (UK edition).  I definitely recall a seventh, although I also recall that it seemed to have nothing to do with the preceeding stories.  Noisy | Talk 10:33, Mar 19, 2005 (UTC)
:That would be Masters of the Vortex which is mentioned below the list of the 6 main books. HTH HAND --Phil | Talk 08:26, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC)
:There are also editions which erroneously list Spacehounds of IPC among the Lensman novels.  While it could be argued that the conflicts of Spacehounds were similar to what might be expected in the First Jovian War, there are no other indications of correspondence between Spacehounds and the core Lensman novels. --Doc W 17:21, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Seventh book

message: An obscure point maybe, but significant: there is nothing in the article drawing attention to an apparent contradiction in the later books by David Kyle.
In First Lensman, as mentioned in the article:The first woman sent to Arisia is returned unharmed with the message that no more women are to be sent. She says that "only one woman will ever receive a lens".
This obviously refers to Clarissa McDougal, the "Red Lensman".
However Kyle's books if I recall correctly, feature several female Lensmen (at least one of which was human).
Was this ever resolved, and if so how?
--Phil | Talk 14:14, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)
Yes, the female Lensman is a contradiction--or is just retconing the series to be more PC.  Yes, there are steriotypes, but ALL literiture has steriotypes, and Kyle was a cheesy and pendantic about the female Lensman.
User:Señor Cardgage
:GURPS Lensman has a reasonably thorough discussion of female Lensmen. The author of that book has been known to refer to Kyle as the "Black Historian," due to the impossibility of reconciling his novels with the History of Civilization as compiled by the First Historian. ➥the Epopt 20:18, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Remember, Ethan, that we are among minds that can become unstable at high levels of stress. Full knowledge of the identities of some of the Operators must be withheld to avoid adverse reactions. I fully agree with your evaluation of importance of the tertiary sources, even those who worked to avoid contradictions penetrate the maskirovka. Their existence is perhaps mildly interesting, their relevance to Smith's series only tangential. ➥the Epopt 16:29, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Remember, it's just a book, and not real. - CHAIRBOY (☎) 17:22, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, I assure you, the books are most certainly real. I have a full set right here. ➥the Epopt 18:37, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Who ever said it isn't?  --Pariahpress 03:02, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Female Lensmen 

message: Someone edited my paragraph on "Primary Beam" (under Weapons) to say the spent shells were "energy" shells, and inserted a note saying they were like modern bomb-pumped X-ray lasers.  This is a misinterpretation of the canon.  The power source for primary beams was still the spaceship's main power grid, using Cosmic Energy.  It was the primary's emitter which was spent and ejected with each shot. --Lensman003 09:40, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Primary Beam 

message: Some kind of shout out to Harrison's Star Smashers of the Galaxy Rangers would be appropriate, it's so clearly a loving parody of all that rockribbed irony-free universe spanning pulp insanity :)
:Well, perhaps. My opinion is that no one should touch SSOTGR with a barge pole until they've read all of the Skylark and Lensman books. At which point they should read Harrison's hilarious story. That way they'll get maximum enjoyment from the parody without spoiling their enjoyment of the originals. -- Derek Ross | Talk 16:56, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Harry Harrison 

message: * Commandant Fritz von Hohendorff's account of the Patrol's early history at the beginning of the magazine version of Galactic Patrol (Astounding September 1937 p. 13) does not describe what happened in the magazine version of Triplanetary; the references on pages 8 and 9 of book version to Virgil Samms and the Triplanetary Patrol are a later interpolation.  
* In the original (ibid.), Lieutenant-Marshall von Hohendorff states, “In the last hundred years, no wearer of the Lens has disgraced it”; the book version instead says, “No wearer of the Lens has ever disgraced it.”
* The original (ibid.) refers to the “invention” of the Lens, whereas the book version states that it “was developed for us by the Arisians."
* The original frequently uses the adjective “enforcement” to describe Patrol spacecraft, e.g., “It takes ten years of proved accomplishment to earn command of a first-class enforcement vessel,” (September 1937, p. 15); the book version (p. 14) omits the adjective.  Cp. e.g., “enforcement vessel” September 1937 p. 22 vs. “Patrol ship” first edition p. 23.
* The footnote on September 1937 p. 17 states that gyroscopes were used for inertialess navigation; the book version (p. 18) corrects this to “galactic lines of force,” presumably because gyroscopes would not work while inertialess.
* In the original Kinnison’s rank while in command of the Britannia was “Vice-Commander” (p. 17); in the book it is “Lieutenant.”
* The original (footnote p. 21) gives the exact time for a record-breaking transgalactic run by Mays and Cornell as 1253 hours.  The corresponding passage in the book version (p. 20) omits the footnote.  (This may be because in later books, inertialess speed could be greatly increased outside the dense space inside the galaxy.)
* In the original (p. 24) the space-axe is described as “a combination and sublimation of battle-axe, mace, and bludgeon.”  In the book, “lumberman’s picaroon” is added (p. 26).
* In the original, Kinnison states (p. 34) “In Lens-to-Lens communication we can cover real distances, but without a Lens at the other end I can cover only a few thousand kilometers.”  The corresponding passage on p. 40 of the first edition omits this detail.
* On page 34 of the original, Kinnison says “…the Third Galactic Survey. That was in the days of the semi-inert drive, when it took years to cross the galaxy.”  The corresponding passage in the first book edition, on page 42, omits mention of the semi-inert drive, merely stating “that was a hell of a long time ago.”  The original is not consistent with Triplanetary, in which the era of partial inertialessness lasted only from Amazing March 1934 p. 33, until April 1934 p. 52.
* On p. 147 of the November 1937 Astounding, the Arisian watchman states that Helmuth stole his thought-screen from Velantia, and that the Arisians had not foreseen this.  (This is inconsistent with the detailed Arisian visualization of the Cosmic All in First Lensman p. 304.)  In the book version (p. 135), Helmuth instead received his thought-screen from a messenger from Ploor, which of course is not mentioned in the original, to avoid spoilers.  Cp. the letter from Arthur Dawson on page 159 of the February issue: “how did Helmuth get thought-screens from Velantia?”
* On page 57 of the December issue, Kinnison implicitly claims to have invented the term “Boskonia”: ‘In my own mind, I have been calling the whole culture “Boskonia”’.  This is omitted from page 144 of the first edition.
* Kinnison’s second command is the “cruiser Britannia II” on page 59 of the December Astounding; on page 148 of the first edition, it is the “heavy battle cruiser Britannia”.
* The Boskonians originally had bases upon both Neptune and Pluto (12/37 p. 60); in the book version (p. 148), “the Boskonians had established bases upon Neptune's moon”.
* On page 121 of the January 1938 issue, Surgeon-Marshall Lacy says he believes Kinnison's will be the “second absolutely perfect male skeleton I have ever seen.”  On page 194 of the book version, he says instead “first.” 
* The comments (page 196 of the book) by Lacy on Clarissa MacDougall's ancestry being pure Samms, and Haynes' on Kinnison's ancestry, are interpolations, and do not appear in the corresponding passage on page 122.
* Haynes' question to Kinnison on his return to Arisia, “Didn't Mentor tell you never to go back there?” is an interpolation (p. 204 of the first edition vs. p. 126 of the original.)
* Mentor addresses Kinnison as “Kimball Kinnison of Earth” in the original (p. 127), corrected to “Tellus” in the book (p. 205).
* Kinnison at first perceives Mentor as the “same grotesque, dragonlike entity who had measured him for his Lens”; in the book, the work “dragonlike” is omitted. (op. cit.)
* In the original, Mentor tells Kinnison, “you are ahead of time by several of your years”; in the book this is changed to “your present quest ... was expected”.  (op. cit.)
* In the original, Mentor says, “there has been one other who will return,” corrected to “there are several others who will return” (p. 128 vs. p. 206).
* In the original, Mentor says, “you have made a start which is really surprising, even to me, your sponsor.”  “really” is changed to “almost” in the book (p. 129 vs p. 208).
* Kinnison's mental bouts with Mentor are described in the original as “requiring... such terrific outpourings of mental force that not even the master could stand the awful strain for more than half an hour.”  In the book this is changed to ““no human mind could stand the awful strain for more than half an hour.” (p. 129 vs p. 208).
* In the book (p. 215 ff.) Kinnison opens communications with the Patrol base on Radelix by asking for Lensman Gerrond by name; the other three officers are not explicitly referred to as Lensmen.  In the original (p. 132 ff.), the four are collectively referred to as Lensmen, with the commander never identified by name.
* In the original, both of the suspects “tell perfectly straight stories under the Lens and all other lie detectors.” (p. 133).  In the book (p. 217), instead, “neither will let me—or any other Lensman so far—touch his mind.”  Kinnison accepts this in the book:  “Lots of innocent people simply can't stand Lensing and have mighty strong blocks.”
* Kinnison's oath, “Holy rockets, no!” is amended to “Holy Klono, no!” in the book (p. 135 vs. p. 220).  Similarly Wolmark (Helmuth’s immediate junior), “But—great blinding rockets, how?”, (February p. 81, missing from p. 248).  Also Port Admiral Haynes on page 84, missing from the book edition page 253:  “Holy jumping rockets.”
* On page 94 of the February issue, it is noted that “years later, astronomers observed and recorded a peculiarly behaving Nova in Star Cluster AC 257-4736,” which is omitted from page 271.
—FlashSheridan 17:09, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Differences between the two versions of ''[[Galactic Patrol]]'' 

message: ==== General Observations ====
* As before, the chapters are named in the book version, but merely numbered in the original.
* Second Stage Lensmen seems to have many more minor stylistic improvements in the book version than the preceding novels.  This is the only justification I have seen so far for Sanders’ claim (p. 61) that “he never regarded a piece of fiction as quite finished.  This can be seen by the way he went through his novels before letting them be republished.”  I noticed few instances of such editing in the earlier novels.  (It’s possible that I missed some; I’m doing this from memory, not a side-by-side reading.)  It’s blatantly untrue of Triplanetary, where Dr. Smith did the minimum (or less) revising necessary to ret-con it into the Lensman series and his later feelings about war: generally simple interpolations, with the occasional deletion, usually sacrificing artistic value to strained pseudo-consistency.  
** There are, on the other hand, numerous corrections (e.g. of capitalization) at the copy-editing level which I haven’t tracked; I speculate that these were mostly mistakes made in setting the type for the magazine, with the correct text copied over from Smith’s own manuscripts to the book versions.
** The biggest stylistic revision is the one Sanders notes on pp. 62–5, but Sanders fails to note the second most important part about the change, that it’s in text which spans the two installments.  This leads me to two bits of speculation:  (1) That Dr Smith initially considered revising this passage to eliminate redundancy caused by the split into installments, but ended up making the ideological revisions as discussed by Sanders, and (2) that this is the only major revision which Sanders found to back up his claim, and that he didn’t in fact read the original version of the whole series.  Otherwise, I would find it difficult to explain how even as sloppy a scholar as Sanders could have missed the heavy-handed ret-conning.
** But Sanders’ point about style is defensible for Second Stage Lensmen; if anyone is considering republishing the series (which a conversation with Marty Massoglia at BayCon suggests is unlikely), I’d recommend publishing the original versions of the first novels (except for the minor copy-editing issues), but some consideration should be given to some of the revisions (though not interpolations) to Second Stage Lensmen.
* I’ve also included, in parentheses, some non-differences relevant to the chronology of the narrator/historian.
==== Astounding November 1941 ====
* In the Analytical Lab on page 58, Campbell notes, “Invariably, the back number department here at Street and Smith runs out of the copies containing Smith’s yarns long before the demand runs out. And we always lay down an extra-large supply of those issues too!”
* P. 10/8, synopsis: “The Boskonian conflict was just beginning …”  The synopsis on page 8 of the book is totally different.
* 11/10, synopsis:  “thought-screens... the Arisians had given them to Velantia, hence knew how to break them down”.  Page 10 of the book just mentions Ploor.
* The illustration on p. 35 is a black and white version of the cover  for November 1939.
* 38/54: “No mentality in existence, not even that of Mentor the Arisian, could lie to Gray Lensman Kinnison against his will.” Omitted from p. 54 of the book.  (Note that this and other revisions to make the Arisians nearly omnipotent makes Kinnison’s belief that he had defeated an Arisian implausible in the ret-con version.)
* 53/80:  After “I wanted her to take me back to Lonabar, but she wouldn’t.” the two versions diverge heavily.    The original starts with “She learned about Tellus and the Patrol from our minds... and wanted to study them.”  On p. 80 of the book, this is instead followed by the contradictory “She couldn’t have, anyway, because she didn’t know any more about it where it is than I did.”  The following discussion on the topic of “You don’t know where your own home planet is?” is an interpolation.
* 53/81: “gray nylon” is changed to red on p. 81.
==== Astounding December 1941 ====
* 55 Campbell, in In Times to Come, notes “I’ll repeat that experience shows that issues carrying Doc Smith stories can’t be obtained later if you miss them now.”
* (Not a difference: P. 12, corresponding to page 91, on tractor shear data not being available, sets the narrator's date as fairly soon after the events reported.  Cp. personal comments about Lenswoman MacDougal and honor of being first non-Lensman to read some records.)
* 17/98:  “under orders to kill themselves” is changed to  “compulsion” on p. 98.
* 19/102: discussion of pseudo-inertia omitted from p. 102.
* 20/103: “changed his mind and Lensed a thought” on p. 103 of the book is interpolated. 
* 20/103: “I was in a wide-open ten-way once” is changed to “I’ve been in such things up to a hundred or so” on p. 103.
* 21/104: "However, I haven't been making any passes" on p. 104 of the book is an interpolation.
* 26/106 (Not a difference:  "The Lensman's long life" suggests that the narrator's date is long after the events portrayed.)
* 22/107–8: “You’re Second Stage, aren’t you?… I had known only of Worsel… and Tregonsee.” is an interpolation.
* 26/115  (Not a difference:  Lensman MacDougall wore her Lens on “her left wrist”; on the cover (approved by Dr Smith) of the first installment of ‘‘Gray Lensman,’’ Kinnison wears his Lens on his right wrist.)
* 23/117 “Then Kinnison, one of the few then existent second stage Lensman” is changed to “Then Kimball Kinnison, Second Stage Lensman”.  “As is now well known” is omitted. 
* 30/120 “Nadreck, the Unattached Lensman” is changed to “Second Stage”.
* 46/148 “Please get hold of Nadreck of Palain VII for me? I don’t know his pattern well enough to Lens him from here.” changed to  “I think I know his pattern well enough” on p. 148.  “frigid-blooded, poison-breathing second-stage Gray Lensman” (unchanged) is the first mention in the original of Nadreck’s being Second Stage.
* 47/148 Lenswoman MacDougall’s mention of  “my visualization of the Cosmic All” on page 148 is of course an interpolation.   The attribution to Haynes of “the Eich are to Boskonia exactly what we are to Civilization”  is changed to “this from the nurse” on page 148.
* 49/151 “Indeed, it is held that sexual equality is the most important criterion of that which we know as Civilization.” is changed to “has been argued” on p. 151.
* 54/159 (v. Sanders p. 63) "you're all thinking ... Overlords!" is omitted from p. 159.
* 54/160  See Sanders pp. 62–5 for a general discussion of these differences.  One minor point: “thank all the gods of space” is changed to “God”.
==== Astounding January 1942 ====
* 98 “it's” misspelled in Synopsis 
* 98/161 “barring the contingency...”/ not in book p. 161; see Sanders.
* 99/162 “racial vice” (about torture and the Overlords) is omitted from p. 162.
* 100/164 “you, too, Captain Craig, please” is omitted from p. 164.
* 101/168 The spelling “Earthgirl’s” is changed to “Earth-girl’s”.
* 101/168 “...took out her ubiquitous hypodermic and made sure that her patient would rest...” omitted from p. 168.
* "Captain Craig erupted …orders" / "captain's talker issued"
* 103 The illustration on p. 103 seems to be wrong; in it Helen (presumably) wears clothes and a hat.
* (Not a difference: 104/176 "your historian is supremely proud that he was the first perosn other than a Lensman" earlier "after the emergency had passed")
* 104/176 “Mac” (in the Historian’s voice) is changed to “Clarissa”.  (Note that the torture here, in both versions, seems to be unnecessary; cp. the mental duel in Gray Lensman on Jarnevon.)
* (107 historian re Lonabar: "many volumes have already been written" ... "before the 2nd galaxy was made secure")
* 108/185 “I’d a lot rather be a live coward than a dead hero!” edited to “Right now cowardice is indicated — copiously”  
* 110/190 Haynes to K: “Don’t be dumb”; removed in book.
* 118/206 The two paragraphs on Mentor’s dealing with “every picture ... of Traska Gannel” are an interpolation.
* 129/229 “the outrages to the sensibilities incident to inertialessness in its crudest forms.” altered to “the physical and mental ills accompanying inertialessness.”  (Cp. Galactic Patrol September 1937 p. 42 October 1937, p. 62 (book p. 51) and other ret-con difficulties with the inertialess drive.) [The page citation is an error per Paul Magnussen which I’ll try to correct soon.  —FlashSheridan (talk) 21:49, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Differences between the two versions of ''[[Second Stage Lensmen]]'' 

message: * 98 “it's” misspelled in Synopsis 
* 98/161 “barring the contingency...”/ not in book p. 161; see Sanders.
* 99/162 “racial vice” (about torture and the Overlords) is omitted from p. 162.
* 100/164 “you, too, Captain Craig, please” is omitted from p. 164.
* 101/168 The spelling “Earthgirl’s” is changed to “Earth-girl’s”.
* 101/168 “...took out her ubiquitous hypodermic and made sure that her patient would rest...” omitted from p. 168.
* "Captain Craig erupted …orders" / "captain's talker issued"
* 103 The illustration on p. 103 seems to be wrong; in it Helen (presumably) wears clothes and a hat.
* (Not a difference: 104/176 "your historian is supremely proud that he was the first perosn other than a Lensman" earlier "after the emergency had passed")
* 104/176 “Mac” (in the Historian’s voice) is changed to “Clarissa”.  (Note that the torture here, in both versions, seems to be unnecessary; cp. the mental duel in Gray Lensman on Jarnevon.)
* (107 historian re Lonabar: "many volumes have already been written" ... "before the 2nd galaxy was made secure")
* 108/185 “I’d a lot rather be a live coward than a dead hero!” edited to “Right now cowardice is indicated — copiously”  
* 110/190 Haynes to K: “Don’t be dumb”; removed in book.
* 118/206 The two paragraphs on Mentor’s dealing with “every picture ... of Traska Gannel” are an interpolation.
* 129/229 “the outrages to the sensibilities incident to inertialessness in its crudest forms.” altered to “the physical and mental ills accompanying inertialessness.”  (Cp. Galactic Patrol September 1937 p. 42 October 1937, p. 62 (book p. 51) and other ret-con difficulties with the inertialess drive.) [The page citation is an error per Paul Magnussen which I’ll try to correct soon.  —FlashSheridan (talk) 21:49, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''[[Astounding]]'' January 1942 

message: *P. 35 Analytical Laboratory: “Second-Stage Lensmen was a nearly unanimous choice for first place in the December issue.” 
* (John Campbell in a editor's note on page 35, about the war and its impact on his authors, has a little inside joke about Heinlein:  “Robert Heinlein is Lieutenant Robert Heinlein, U.S.N., … Anson MacDonald is in Navy service equally.”)
* 97/238 Mentor: “If my mind had been really competent, I would have foreseen this event in detail.  Even though I did not so foresee it,…” / deleted in book.
* 97/238 Mentor: “since your brain is of very limited capacity” / “not of infinite capacity”
* 97/238:  (Not a change, but perhaps of interest to us mathematicians.) Kinnison: “No wonder these mathematical wizards were nuts — went off the beam — he’d be pure squirrel food if he had half that stuff in his skull!”
* 103/250 "Just when did you leave the Circle?" /  "Eddore?".  (Eddore is of course not mentioned in the original version.)
* 103/251 “and the experts of the Patrol would make no such crass errors as those.” / “while the experts of the Patrol were not infallible, Mentor of Arisia was.” 
* 104/251 “... another Eddorian? the Arisian who had been hampering him?”  Not in original.
* 105/257 Fossten: “because I have only recently taken over.” /  Removed.
* 110/267 “the prime minister...drove a thought towards Eddore and the All-Highest.
“Blocked! 
“Star A Star and the Arisian, then, were not two but one!” / Not in original.
* 269/110  “He never did suspect that he was not alone.”   / Not in original.
* 113/276 “coffee-like beverage affected by the Thrallians” /  “Thrallian coffee”
* 113 /276 Mentor: “my mind is far from capable” / “not entirely capable”
* 113/277 “visualization of the Cosmic All which I hold at the moment” /  unchanged, but note that this is the first mention in the original.
* 113/277 “no permanent pattern had  as yet been formed” / Removed.
* 113/278 Mentor to and about Kinnison: “that no mind in the macrocosmic universe can break” / “whose  capabilities you do not and cannot appreciate”
* 113/278 “what was mortal of Fossten the prime minster became a smoking, shapeless heap.”/ “whatever it was that lay there”
* 114/279 Haynes “was turning away from the plate” / “Just before he decided to Lens Kinnison anyway”
* 115/282 Gannel: “My Great Plan” / not “Great” 
* 116/283 “hundreds of generations of Thrallian torturers” / “all the”
* 122/294 (Nadreck is mentioned in the present tense.)
* 123 /298 “No need of language, either, although upon this page their thoughts must be put into words.  They did however, have need — a profound need — of physical contact.” / Deleted, and context rearranged.
* 124/300 Second mention of  “Visualization of the Cosmic All”.
* 127/304 Kinnison to Breenler of Thrale: “This business of yours is worth fifty thousand credits more right now than it was before she cut loose here, and that it’ll be worth twice that much” / Removed. 
* 128/306 “no levity is possible within a radius of miles”/ Removed.
* 129/307 "shouted to Haynes" / "Lensed a thought" 
—FlashSheridan (talk) 05:52, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''[[Astounding]]'' February 1942 

message: ==== General Observations ====
* References to the original version, published in Comet Stories, July 1941, use Kindle sequence numbers from the Amazon Digital Services version ASIN: B001RNOK6O of the Project Gutenberg scan by Greg Weeks and V. L. Simpson.  References to the book version use the Gnome Press page numbers, which I believe should match those used by Ellik & Evans.  Remember that the short story served only as the beginning of the book of the same title.
* I’ve only noted noteworthy differences; Dr Smith made many more stylistic changes than usual.  In general, they do follow the generalization that Dr Smith’s revisions for a book version leave the sequence intact, improve the style, but mar the content.  The most striking change is the removal of the motivational core of the story, Dr Cloud’s belief that he would meet his wife in the afterlife, and a consequent deemphasis of his longing for death.  That in turn was the technical core of the original, as it was the reason Dr Cloud couldn’t have blasted vortices before (140/14).  (No explanation is given in either version for why the Conference of Scientists [and, in the original, Sir Austin Cardynge and Kimball Kinnison] had not investigated the possibility.)
==== Differences ====
* Kindle location 2 / Gnome page 1 (First word of second paragraph): The “unsinkable” ships / ‘the’ removed
* 8/1 “as it must of necessity be” / removed, other changes
* 8/1 “bigness of a strong man’s arm” / “size of a big man’s forefinger”
* 8/1 “atomic physicist” / “Doctor of Nucleonics”
* 14/9  “lovely wife and their three wonderful kids” / “wife and children”  [The number of children is mentioned later in both versions, 87/12.]
* 37/10 sentences reversed
* 37/11 “and Jo had been married for almost twenty years” / “more than fifteen”
* 62/11 “and  the world has too much use for you” / deleted
* 62/11 “I don't think so. No, I won't--that never was any  kind of a solution to any problem.  Nor was it. Until that moment, suicide had not entered Cloud's mind, and he rejected it instantly.  His kind of man did not take the easy way out.”  / “'I don't think so. No.' Suicide, tempting although it might be, was not the answer.”
* 62/11 “au revoir”: interpolation
* 70/12 ‘“gave her the oof,”’ / ‘“shoveled on the coal”’
* 106 “Klono's brazen bowels” / removed [Cp. Children of the Lens' first installment 38/42.]
* 127/14 “Why, even Kinnison and Cardynge and the Conference of Scientists couldn't solve it” / “Kinnison and Cardynge” removed, but the mention of “not excepting even Kimball Kinnison” at 425 is retained.
* 140/14 “calculating machine”/ “GOMEAC,” other changes
* 140/14 ‘"Fear," Cloud replied, crisply. "At the thought of a  hand-to-hand battle with a vortex my brain froze  solid. Fear--the sheer, stark, natural human fear of  death, that robs a man of the fine edge of control  and brings on the very death that he is trying so  hard to avoid. That's what had me stopped."’  / deleted
* 140/14 ‘The quicker it does, the better--the  sooner I'll be with Jo."  "You believe that?"  "Implicitly."  "The vortices are as good as gone, then. They haven't  got any more chance than Boskone has of licking the  Patrol."’ / ‘Lensmen did not ordinarily use their Lenses on their Lensless friends, but this was no ordinary occasion. 'You aren't afraid of death any more. But you won't invite it? And do you mind if I Lens you on that?  "Come in. I'll not invite it, but that's as far as I'll go in promising. I won't make any superhuman effort to avoid it. I'll take all due precautions, for the sake of the job, but if one gets me, what the hell?"
* 344/21 “he again kicked on his eight  G's of drive” / “five”
* 355/21 “Neutralization of inertia took time!”:  Interpolation; similar changes elsewhere
* 384 “Bergenholm switch. He snapped it, and in the  instant of its closing a vast, calm peace descended,” / deleted
* 408 [“"Oh, yes, Phil--definitely yes," Lacy replied, briskly.  "He has a good skeleton, very good indeed.” / same in both, but cp. Galactic Patrol page 121 January 1938.]
* 432/24 ‘I'll keep on pecking away until one of those vortices finishes  what this one started.’ / ‘I'll keep on pecking away as long as I last.’
* 439/24 “We know exactly how long it takes to go from fully inert to fully free.”: interpolation
* After 448 (end)/25 (end of chapter 2) ‘And that night Lensman Philip Strong, instead of sleeping, thought and thought and thought.… And next morning, early, he Lensed a thought. 'Kinnison?’: not in original
—FlashSheridan (talk) 16:55, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Differences between the two versions of ''[[Vortex Blaster]]'' 

message: * Kindle location 2 / Gnome page 1 (First word of second paragraph): The “unsinkable” ships / ‘the’ removed
* 8/1 “as it must of necessity be” / removed, other changes
* 8/1 “bigness of a strong man’s arm” / “size of a big man’s forefinger”
* 8/1 “atomic physicist” / “Doctor of Nucleonics”
* 14/9  “lovely wife and their three wonderful kids” / “wife and children”  [The number of children is mentioned later in both versions, 87/12.]
* 37/10 sentences reversed
* 37/11 “and Jo had been married for almost twenty years” / “more than fifteen”
* 62/11 “and  the world has too much use for you” / deleted
* 62/11 “I don't think so. No, I won't--that never was any  kind of a solution to any problem.  Nor was it. Until that moment, suicide had not entered Cloud's mind, and he rejected it instantly.  His kind of man did not take the easy way out.”  / “'I don't think so. No.' Suicide, tempting although it might be, was not the answer.”
* 62/11 “au revoir”: interpolation
* 70/12 ‘“gave her the oof,”’ / ‘“shoveled on the coal”’
* 106 “Klono's brazen bowels” / removed [Cp. Children of the Lens' first installment 38/42.]
* 127/14 “Why, even Kinnison and Cardynge and the Conference of Scientists couldn't solve it” / “Kinnison and Cardynge” removed, but the mention of “not excepting even Kimball Kinnison” at 425 is retained.
* 140/14 “calculating machine”/ “GOMEAC,” other changes
* 140/14 ‘"Fear," Cloud replied, crisply. "At the thought of a  hand-to-hand battle with a vortex my brain froze  solid. Fear--the sheer, stark, natural human fear of  death, that robs a man of the fine edge of control  and brings on the very death that he is trying so  hard to avoid. That's what had me stopped."’  / deleted
* 140/14 ‘The quicker it does, the better--the  sooner I'll be with Jo."  "You believe that?"  "Implicitly."  "The vortices are as good as gone, then. They haven't  got any more chance than Boskone has of licking the  Patrol."’ / ‘Lensmen did not ordinarily use their Lenses on their Lensless friends, but this was no ordinary occasion. 'You aren't afraid of death any more. But you won't invite it? And do you mind if I Lens you on that?  "Come in. I'll not invite it, but that's as far as I'll go in promising. I won't make any superhuman effort to avoid it. I'll take all due precautions, for the sake of the job, but if one gets me, what the hell?"
* 344/21 “he again kicked on his eight  G's of drive” / “five”
* 355/21 “Neutralization of inertia took time!”:  Interpolation; similar changes elsewhere
* 384 “Bergenholm switch. He snapped it, and in the  instant of its closing a vast, calm peace descended,” / deleted
* 408 [“"Oh, yes, Phil--definitely yes," Lacy replied, briskly.  "He has a good skeleton, very good indeed.” / same in both, but cp. Galactic Patrol page 121 January 1938.]
* 432/24 ‘I'll keep on pecking away until one of those vortices finishes  what this one started.’ / ‘I'll keep on pecking away as long as I last.’
* 439/24 “We know exactly how long it takes to go from fully inert to fully free.”: interpolation
* After 448 (end)/25 (end of chapter 2) ‘And that night Lensman Philip Strong, instead of sleeping, thought and thought and thought.… And next morning, early, he Lensed a thought. 'Kinnison?’: not in original
—FlashSheridan (talk) 16:55, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Differences 

message: =====Message of Transmittal=====
* 11/47 p. 8 / book p. 1: “perhaps ten million, perhaps ten million million Galactic Standard years,” omitted in book.  (“visualization of the Cosmic All,” however, is in both versions.)
* 8/1:  [“Bergenholm so perfected the crude inertialess space-drive of Rodebush and Cleveland”: Same in both versions, but note that this is a major inconsistency with the original versions of Galactic Patrol and Triplanetary.]
* 8/2 “Virgil Samms, then chief of the Secret Service of the Triplanetary League” | “Virgil Samms, then chief of the Triplanetary Service.”
* 8/2 “Through one Dr. Nels Bergenholm, an Arisian-activated form of human flesh”: interpolation, not present in original.
* 10/5 “made of Clarissa MacDougall a Second-Stage Lensman” / “made Clarissa MacDougall an unattached Lensman”
* 11/6 “an Eddorian” / “Gharlane of Eddore” [n.b. Gharlane does not appear in the original version, and the reader does not yet know anything of Eddore.]
* 12/6 “Kimball Kinnison, while not, strictly speaking, a mutant” / “while in no sense a mutant”
* 12/7 ‘Much has been told elsewhere, notably in Smith’s “History of Civilization”; but all such works are, and of necessity must be, pitifully incomplete.’  Not in book version.  (Note that this “History of Civilization” cannot be the work of the same name by E.E. Smith in our universe, since the retconned Triplanetary covers matters which would cause an inferiority complex in any mind below the third level.  The historian’s work in the first three volumes anyway seems to be purely a history of the last years of the Boskonian War.)
* 12/7 “Christopher Kinnison” / “Christopher K. Kinnison”
=====Chapter 1=====
* 14/12 “startlingly identical” (girls), not in book version.
* 32/ 35 [“Fossten the renegade Arisian” same in both.]
* 34/37 “merrily and at a cento a word,” not in book version.
* 38/42 Kinnison: “Holy Klono’s brazen bowels!” / “gadolinium guts”  [Cp. Vortex Blaster.]
* 38/42 [“Civilization would have been basically Palainian,” same in both.]
* 40/46 “Galactic Counselor Edmundson”  / “Tellurian tycoon” (victim of Kandron atrocities.)
* 48/49 “Calling in assistance, he searched the president's past even more rigidly than Fossten had searched that of Traska Gannel.… even to widely distributed boyhood pictures” / deleted   [This perhaps suggests a serious difference in Dr Smith’s thinking between the two versions, though I don’t yet know what to make of it.]
—FlashSheridan (talk) 21:51, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''[[Astounding]]'' November 1947 

message: * 14/12 “startlingly identical” (girls), not in book version.
* 32/ 35 [“Fossten the renegade Arisian” same in both.]
* 34/37 “merrily and at a cento a word,” not in book version.
* 38/42 Kinnison: “Holy Klono’s brazen bowels!” / “gadolinium guts”  [Cp. Vortex Blaster.]
* 38/42 [“Civilization would have been basically Palainian,” same in both.]
* 40/46 “Galactic Counselor Edmundson”  / “Tellurian tycoon” (victim of Kandron atrocities.)
* 48/49 “Calling in assistance, he searched the president's past even more rigidly than Fossten had searched that of Traska Gannel.… even to widely distributed boyhood pictures” / deleted   [This perhaps suggests a serious difference in Dr Smith’s thinking between the two versions, though I don’t yet know what to make of it.]
—FlashSheridan (talk) 21:51, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Chapter 1

message: ===== General Remarks =====
* Mentor’s historical explanation to Kathryn Kinnison on page 113 of the original is radically different from the ret-conned version on page 87 of the book.  In my opinion it renders the original series dramatically superior to the ret-conned version:
::: “Yes and no. A partial explanation, while long, may be in order. Many cycles of time ago it became apparent to our more advanced thinkers that the rise and fall of Civilizations was too rhythmic to be accidental. They studied this rhythm, but life was too short. They set out then, deliberately to prolong their lives. Fewer and fewer in number, they lived longer and longer; and the longer each lived, the more he learned. Their visualizations of the Cosmic All became less tenuous, more complete. It became evident that there was some inimical force at work; a force implacably opposed to that which we know as Civilization. Like a mouse in the power of a torturing cat, any Civilization could go just so far, but no farther. For instance, that of Atlantis, upon your father's native planet, Tellus. I was personally concerned in that, and could not stop its fall.” The Arisian was showing emotion now : his thought was bleak and bitter.
::: “Four of us were assigned to the problem of this opposing force. We learned that its final abatement would necessitate the development of a race superior to ours in every respect. We, therefore, selected blood lines in each of the four strongest races of the galaxy and began to eliminate as many as possible of their weaknesses and to concentrate all of their strengths....”
::• Ret-conned version, page 87: 
::: “... Our Arisian visualizations foretold the rise and fall of galactic civilizations long before any such civilizations came into being. That of Atlantis, for instance. I was personally concerned in that, and could not stop its fall.” The Arisian was showing emotion now; his thought was bleak and bitter.
::: “Not that I expected to stop it... the final abatement of the opposing force would necessitate the development of a race superior to ours in every respect.
::: “Blood lines were selected in each of the four strongest races of this that you know as the First Galaxy...”
* Note that this turns the whole series on its head dramatically, relative to what modern readers encounter.  The Arisians, rather than being pre-ordained victors with the home-turf advantage over the Eddorians, are underdogs—a subject race to the Eddorians, who only gradually work out a strategy to overthrow them.  The breeding program for the four races actually makes sense: it’s a selection from existing species, and the Arisians don’t (because they’re not omniscient) necessarily know which race will succeed them.  
===== Blurb=====
*  100: “The plan of the Arisians was a long slow plan... Working toward the necessary final test—”
===== Synopsis =====
* 101:  Unlike earlier ones, this synopsis was written by one of the weaker thinkers at Street and Smith, who had read the earlier works with some attention but insufficient understanding.  His prose style is also jarringly bad, and his order of exposition is incorrect and poorly thought out.  I seem to detect a hint of resentment against Dr Smith in some of the phrasing (e.g., Mentor’s “inexplicable” interest in Kimball Kinnison, and “Fossten was actually an Arisian-like creature.  Mentor made Kinnison believe that Fossten was an Arisian who had gone mad in his youth”)—perhaps, I speculate, because the blurb writer had been fooled by Dr Smith’s concealment of the Eddorians at the end of Second Stage Lensmen.  (Speculating even more, perhaps this resentment was because he was one of those complained about in “The Epic of Space”: “I have had, time and again, to go over the whole episode word by word to convince certain critics…” [p. 85.].)
I won’t reproduce the whole wretched thing, but I’ll note that “superhypnotic” is not a term used by Dr Smith, and the candidate Lensmen were hardly just “boys of Earth.”  He also seems to have badly misremembered the expedition to Jarnevon.  The synopsis includes a spoiler for the installment, “a line bred by the Arisians,” but neglects one of the key points actually needing a recapitulation for this installment, that Sybly White was an identity assumed in the previous installment by Kimball Kinnison.
=====Chapter VIII ff.=====
* 108/74 “but coincidences [editing error for ‘such coincidences’?] simply did not happen / not in book version
* 106/77 “D-armor” / “G-P” [allusion to “atomic vortex” in both]
* 108/74 “pseudospace of” / omitted
* 107/79 “She did not know everything there was to be known” / “quite everything”.
* 109/ 81 “photographed” (metaphorically ) / “scanned”
* 113/87 Mentor to Kathryn Kinnison: see above.
* 115/89 [Kathryn's training] “went on for weeks” / omitted (similarly Kit’s 135/117)
* 115/90 [Mentor re Ploor] “all I can say is that if my visualization in that respect is sound, and I am practically sure that it is,” / omitted
* 135/117 [To Mentor] “your Council decided that the human stock was best” / “you Arisians”
* 135/117 [“While we each worked as individuals upon all of the experimental lines”: Same in both, but "experimental" is inconsistent with ret-con omniscience.]
* 137/120 “everything the Arisians had done for umpteen million years had been aimed at the Eddorians” / “skillions of years”
*151/140 [of Kimball Kinnison] “he ran the tape once—Second Stage Lensmen do not forget any detail of anything they have ever learned” / omitted 
—FlashSheridan (talk) 05:58, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''[[Astounding]]'' December 1947 

message: * 108/74 “but coincidences [editing error for ‘such coincidences’?] simply did not happen / not in book version
* 106/77 “D-armor” / “G-P” [allusion to “atomic vortex” in both]
* 108/74 “pseudospace of” / omitted
* 107/79 “She did not know everything there was to be known” / “quite everything”.
* 109/ 81 “photographed” (metaphorically ) / “scanned”
* 113/87 Mentor to Kathryn Kinnison: see above.
* 115/89 [Kathryn's training] “went on for weeks” / omitted (similarly Kit’s 135/117)
* 115/90 [Mentor re Ploor] “all I can say is that if my visualization in that respect is sound, and I am practically sure that it is,” / omitted
* 135/117 [To Mentor] “your Council decided that the human stock was best” / “you Arisians”
* 135/117 [“While we each worked as individuals upon all of the experimental lines”: Same in both, but "experimental" is inconsistent with ret-con omniscience.]
* 137/120 “everything the Arisians had done for umpteen million years had been aimed at the Eddorians” / “skillions of years”
*151/140 [of Kimball Kinnison] “he ran the tape once—Second Stage Lensmen do not forget any detail of anything they have ever learned” / omitted 
—FlashSheridan (talk) 05:58, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Chapter VIII ff.

message: The first installment placed a strong first in the Analytical Library, and there are two letters in Brass Tacks eagerly anticipating Dr Smith’s return.  (There’s also a story by John D. MacDonald.)  There are few significant changes in this installment; the ret-con rethink does not seem to have affected the ending, which was supposedly thought through quite thoroughly in the very early stages of composition.  Note that in the original, no Eddorian is ever named, and only the All-Highest is given a title.  Even the Eddorian who decides to exile rather than kill Kinnison is not identified.
* 106/220 “this was the second time that the massed might of Arisia had been thrown against Eddore’s defenses” / “not the first”
* 106/222 Eukonidor, to Kit: “your mind cannot now be coerced by any force now existing” / “at my command”
* 111/227 Eddorians: “since it is unthinkable that the enemies’ minds are in any real sense as strong as ours” / omitted
* 111/228 “that obscured the truth for years — that gave them all this additional time” / omitted
* [118/232 “Q P arms and legs — Dhilian, eh?”:  Same in both, but another interestingly unnecessary allusion to the Vortex Blaster stories, which I suspect Campbell may have missed.]
* 142/269 [after “no redheads”] “I’ll play along with you part way on that oldie—up to the point of falling for either of them.” / omitted.  [Stylistically much stronger without the omitted text, but the style is enough like Dr Smith’s that it may not be an editorial addition.  I speculate that an Astounding subeditor (perhaps the weak intellect who wrote the first synopsis) required that something be added for clarity, or possibly prudery.]
* 143/272 “Mentor never talked to anybody except Kinnison before, did he?” / “except the L2’s”
* 143/272 “Damfino” not in original.  [Perhaps removed from the Astounding version by Kay Tarrant?]
* 145/275 [Mentor, about the mental attack on Eddore, after “it will not be of long duration”] “One hour will suffice.” / omitted
* Last words:  “Kit Kinnison” / “Christopher K. Kinnison”
Respectfully submitted, 
FlashSheridan (talk) 03:31, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''[[Astounding]]'' February 1948 

message: My Astoundings with the original of Galactic Patrol are in storage, and it’s 20 years since I’ve seen them; but surely Surgeon-Marshal Lacy (in the book) is Surgeon-General in the original? Paul Magnussen (talk) 21:56, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Lacy — difference missing from the list?

message: Didn't they switch to uranium by the time of First Lensman?  I think they may have mentioned it in relation to Bergenholm's improvements to the Rodebush/Cleveland Drive.  --Pariah Press 02:23, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Allotropic Iron 

message: This article reads too much like a book review, and not enough like an encyclopedia article. In particular, the article spends a lot of time at the beginning reviewing and critiquing the text, without first giving a summary of what the book is about. At the least, a concise overview of the series is needed before the critical analysis.--Srleffler 04:26, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Style problem 

message: To my knowledge there is only one African-American mentioned in the entire series, and he parked cars. I believe there may also have been a reference to the admiral of the African continental contingent of Earth's space fleet with an African (rather than a European colonial) sounding name. I'm not implying much of anything here, just pointing out something that occurred to me after having read the books many times. It seems fair to say that the author indulged in many stereotypes among the Earthlings. For instance the head of the academy where Earth's Lensmen are trained is named Von Hohendorff and is a cipher for pitiless German commandants, at least on the outside. Gray Roger's henchmen are all stereotypes as well: the "lantern jawed" American is obsessed with money, the Frenchman wants women, etc. And when you look at the aliens in this light, you occasionally find the same thing: the catlike aliens are caricatures of the general Western world's view of cats, rather than, say, the Egyptian view of cats. Were I to research this concept, I am sure I would find lots more.
I bring this up because it seems to dovetail with the discussion of female lensmen. It has been suggested that the notion of women going into combat was more or less taboo, so the author didn't pursue it. But was there really any reason to make the only visibly black character a car-hop? By the time the novels were written, there had been many notable scientists of color. Does this reveal anything about the author? Or was it just normal for the pulp science fiction of the day? 76.168.70.193 (talk) 05:36, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Any of this type of analysis requires sources other than wikipedia editors to make the analysis before it can be added to the article. -- The Red Pen of Doom 05:51, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

text: How do you know Raoul LaForge wasn't black?  Or Widel Holmberg?  Or Cliff Maitland?  Or Haynes?  Or Lacy?  Just because it doesn't explicitly say they were, it doesn't meant they weren't.  Maybe, unlike some, Smith thought that race wasn't important. Paul Magnussen (talk) 20:29, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Racial and other Stereotypes 

message: I recently edited the list of planets in the main article to correct the statement that Klovia was the first planet in Lundmark's Nebula to go over to civilization. This is clearly incorrect, as Medon joined civilization and was moved from Lundmark's Nebula to our galaxy in Grey Lensman. Klovia is not mentioned until the next volume of the series, when Grand Fleet invades the second galaxy. As happens all too often with incorrect Wikipedia entries, this false notion has sadly been repeated all over the web, and the correction is unlikely to propagate.76.168.70.193 (talk) 07:35, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Klovia vs. Medon 

message: I think the list of points speculating on the unpublished book Smith had in mind needs to be removed if it can't be cited; it seems like original research as it stands. Mike Christie (talk) 11:24, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unpublished book 

message: Old Earth Books no longer publishes the original series.  From their website (as of 2-July-2010): "The Old Earth Books six-volume collection of trade paperback facsimiles of the original Fantasy Press hardcover editions of E. E. "Doc" Smith's classic Lensmen series are officially out of print. Old Earth Books no longer has the reprint rights and it is not known when or by whom the series will be reprinted in the future."
Dthein (talk) 21:12, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I changed the wording regarding Old Earth Books from "Current publisher" to "Recent publisher". --Lensman003 (talk) 14:14, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links 

message: Normally there is a paragraph (or two) outlining the story without spoilers.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 175.32.217.76 (talk) 22:03, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Summary 

message: Traveling through the endless dimensions of space and time, the heroes of Number of the Beast also travel into other books. Both the Lensmen and incest/ alternative sex were "explored" in Number of the Beast. I dont know if that helps resolving the controversy or not.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.88.168.34 (talk) 18:27, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lensmen in 666, The Number of the Beast 

message: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehnsmann  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.63.185.169 (talk) 22:58, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference to Lehnsmänner? 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Lensman series. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20070224034626/http://www.locusmag.com:80/SFAwards/Db/Hugo1966.html to http://www.locusmag.com/SFAwards/Db/Hugo1966.html
*Attempted to fix sourcing for http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=0&id=47233
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 20:59, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Found a citation for the denial of connections, but am not sure how to cite it. Here it is: https://books.google.com/books?id=TyurDgAAQBAJ&pg=PA122&lpg=PA122&dq=green+lantern+lensman&source=bl&ots=guHsMrjADM&sig=gYNJAnL7jnOk6lqZ_bmDWXBuOfE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiWvoiJsaDZAhUoTt8KHSYzANQ4ChDoAQhGMAY#v=onepage&q=green%20lantern%20lensman&f=false --Khajidha (talk) 12:35, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lensman/Green Lantern 

message: I looked at the plot summary to see if I could cut it down some per the markup on the page. I actually think it's pretty good and not unreasonably long for a summary of 6 books published over a span of 26 years. It could visually be clarified by subheads for each book, then each summary would look short.
Scanlyze (talk) 12:33, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Plot summary too detailed?