Talk:Australian Labor Party

message: The donations section is very out of date considering this data is published yearly. 210.50.180.71 (talk) 17:49, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Donations Section Outdated 

message: The ALP is no longer a centre-left party as should be obvious to anyone who follows politics closely and understands the spectrum. The page needs to be updated to reflect the true nature of the party as it stands. Please see the article below as a reference…
https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/06/01/labor-centre-right-three-party-system-albanese/ Solar1979 (talk) 04:31, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: That article is undeniably an opinion piece. That doesn't make it unusable, but we would need several more sources close to agreeing with it before we could change our article. Funnily enough, I saw another article the other day from the Murdoch stable telling us how Labor was becoming more socialist every day, ad that the Libs were now a center right party. HiLo48 (talk) 06:24, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Given that the author John Quiggin is detailed by Crikey as "a professor in economics at the University of Queensland and is prominent both as a research economist and as a commentator on Australian economic policy", I'd say that the opinion does not have any weight as Quiggin is clearly not a subject matter expert. Does that change if there are more opinions from non subject matter experts? It's hard to see how it does. TarnishedPathtalk 06:55, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: We actually have an article on John Quiggin. HiLo48 (talk) 07:05, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Very interesting. I just had a skim and I'll give it a full read latter. Thanks for that. TarnishedPathtalk 07:10, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

text: This is clearly an opinion article, written by the same author of other such opinion articles as "‘Progressive’ Labor is dead" and "Labor and its imaginary friends". I'd be hard press to accept this to change the existing "Centre-Left" position anymore than the loads of opinion pieces from economists saying Labor is becoming more socialist because of their return to Nationalising Industry. DirectorDirectorDirector (talk) 07:37, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with DirectorDirectorDirector's assessment. (See also: WP:UNDUE, WP:RECENTISM.)--Autospark (talk) 14:06, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Labor party drifts away from centre-left position  

message: The "Network" section needs significant work and over hall. Maybe even the section on Young Labor and Womens network too.
As it stands there are two distinct "Kinds" of groups within the party structurally.
One is Equity based groupings that vary in power such as Australian Young labor, Labor Womens Action Network, Rainbow labor etc. These groupings at the state and national level have more structural power and are based on immutable traits you have like "First nations" or "LGBT+".
Then there are kinda "policy networks" that are called "Associations" in some states that are basically just organising committees around a kind of policy or interest like "Labor environmental action network" etc. These usually have little to no actual structural power.
I feel like reading wise this part is massively out of date and says labor is "is beginning to formally recognise single interest groups" Despite groups like Rainbow Labor existing since pre 2002, and some things like Australian Young Labor of course existing from the start of the movement.
An overall that separates these distinct ideas within the structure of the party would be good.
Also it would probably fix the weird nature of listing the women's Action network on it's own (Since it has so much power) then randomly including it again in the networks? DirectorDirectorDirector (talk) 05:20, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Networks, Equity Groups, and Associations.   

message: I think it's fair to say that there is criticism of the ALP faction system as a whole, and think such criticism is widespread enough to bar mentioning in the article. However I do concede that my edits were primarily based around opinion pieces so therefore would be inappropriate on wikipedia; Would something like this be more appropriate? @TarnishedPath
`
 There has been criticism of the factional system of the Labor Party with party politicians such as Andrew Leigh, Mark Butler and Robert Ray all having been publicly critical of the Labor party's factional system.
`
Sources for this being: 
https://theconversation.com/andrew-leigh-calls-out-how-labors-factional-duopoly-is-undermining-the-party-209972 - Andrew Leigh Speech (Article on event)
https://www.fabians.org.au/a_more_competitive_labor_party - Andrew Leigh Article with similar sentiment (Piece from Leigh)
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/jan/23/mark-butler-factions-are-destroying-labors-capacity-to-campaign - Mark Butler Article
https://www.afr.com/politics/factions-are-the-alps-strength-and-weakness-20060922-jf6r9 - Robert Ray Speech
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/what-are-labor-s-factions-and-who-s-who-in-the-left-and-right-20210210-p5718j.html - A more neutral source on the topic Shcmilly (talk) 14:52, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it needs to be balanced, and include the positives in the factional system as well as the negatives, as outlined by Robert Ray. Peacemaker67  (click to talk to me) 02:16, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

text: For a comparison look at the other major political party's section on factions at Liberal Party of Australia#Ideology and factions. Although there are sources to be had if one were to looks which are critical of its factions also, they're not used. The answer why they shouldn't be used would be the same here being that they are by and large opinion peices written by people who are not subject matter experts in politics. TarnishedPathtalk 02:22, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

text: I think it is hard to include these kinds of critiques of the factional system unless we use academic articles that weigh the pros and cons of the system. DirectorDirectorDirector (talk) 01:30, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: alright fair enough. Shcmilly (talk) 04:22, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Labor Party Factions Criticism 

message: There has been a proposal to alter the infobox description of ideology from "Social democracy" to "Third Way social democracy". Please indicate if you support or oppose this proposal. Onetwothreeip (talk) 09:02, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: No, the reliable contemporary sources explicitly call the party social democrat. Many say it's controlled by "Labourists", "Democratic Socialists" and "Social Democrats". None say that the party is Third Way. DirectorDirectorDirector (talk) 13:10, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey 1