Talk:Restless (Buffy the Vampire Slayer)

message: Please help complete the Angel/Buffy episode articles. See what needs to be done on this sub-page of WikiProject Buffy:
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The trivia in this episode is staggering and beyond my capacity to include in a first run. Also, I didn't pay attention during "Death of a Salesman" and am sure I missed a lot of hints there, too, like when Buffy tells Riley off. Wolf Deunan 00:04, Jun 25, 2004 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure Dawn isn't in this episode (and shouldn't be in the cast list) and I'm also don't think Oz is in it (though I'm less sure). All the others are. Evercat 23:49, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: The Cheese Man seems to be a reference to the children's song/game The Farmer in the Dell, which culminates in the line "The Cheese Stands Alone". Now, considering the episode's theme of eliminating Buffy's friends, and The First Slayer's drive being that Buffy needs to be alone, it seems to me that Buffy IS the cheese.
BUFFY IS THE CHEESE.
----
Can somebody fix the link to David Wells, who played the cheese man, in the table in the upper right? The link points to the baseball player.
: Done. The link is now David Wells (actor). If anyone wants to create a stub, I recommended getting some basic info from IMDb's "David Wells (I)" page and adding a disambiguation line to David Wells, along the lines of "For the character actor, see David Wells (actor)." ~ Jeff Q (talk) 04:53, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cheese Man 

message: "It is probably impossible to do the writing justice without a scene-by-scene, line-by-line analysis"... What the hell? Do you pay no attention to NPOV rules?
Anyway, currently working on reorganizing the article (particularly, splitting the plot synopsis into the characters' different dreams because it seems more... readable this way), and touching some stuff here and there. Any comments, come hither. And God, please, watch with the "OMG RESTLESS BUFFY DREAMIN IS T3H GOOD"; I personally love the episode to bits but some of this is just inappropriate. Zeppocity 10:18, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Tidying up

message: The link to the translation of the Sapphic poem written on Tara's back redirects now, and I'm not sure what, on the page it redirects to, is the correct one. If anyone's got another source for that, please update!--Hiraeth 05:28, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sapphic poem link 

message: :Image:Buffy422.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot (talk) 19:16, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Buffy422.jpg

message: I put in the name of the poem, and attributed it to the poetess as "Sappho's Hymn to Aphrodite". I thought that it was more appropriate to link to the poetess herself, rather than to an adjective deriving from her name. The Sappho page is detailed and much more inspiring to someone who might be led there, than a brief page with a few links. It is also Sappho's only complete poem that we still have, and I think she deserves to have her name on it. I'll change Sapphic to Sappho soon, unless I can be convinced differently.
Later: Oops I Didn't see that the link says Sapphic but goes to sappho. I still think her name should be here, though Max Quordlepleen (talk) 11:39, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The link goes to Sappho and only an idiot is incapable of making the link between "Sappho" and "sapphic". Also, the way that you changed it from "sapphic" to "Sappho" produced a sentence that made no sense. You had a noun where an adjective should have been. kingdom2 (talk) 19:20, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

text: I did not read any farther in the sentence, so I just thought that it was referring to a generic Sapphic poem. Since I know see that the poem's title is given, it makes more sense to have "Sappho" written there. kingdom2 (talk) 22:11, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sappho/sapphic 

message: It's quite funny to see that the dubbed french Xander hears is completely incorrect and almost impossiple to understand for french people. Also, the actor who is talking has a spanish accent, while the woman has a kind of a german accent.81.64.102.58 (talk) 15:51, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dubbed French 

message: I'm pretty sure that is not a scene fom 'Death of a Salesman'  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.4.19.63 (talk) 17:06, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: No, but it is described as being one; that's part of the surreal nature of the episode. --Orange Mike  |  Talk 22:51, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Death of a Salesman 

message: The phrase
: cheesy make-up suited to porn-film "lesbians"
was changed to 
: heavy make-up
One can understand why; but, y'know, "heavy make-up" can mean a lot of things, particularly in a show with monsters.  What language would be tasteful and yet adequately specific?  (The script says only "dressed kinda trampy.") —Tamfang (talk) 23:43, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I wrote the language that was changed. Given the context (adolescent male fantasy about lesbians), the phrase I used was intended to describe what I believe to be authorial intent. However, I will concede that we are unlikely to find a reliable source to back up the obvious deduction. --Orange Mike  |  Talk 20:12, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  make-up 

message: : The dream finally ends the more mundane it gets.
I don't know what this sentence means.  I may have to rewatch. —Tamfang (talk)
::First of all, thanks for the copyedits, much appreciated! Basically, Buffy's dream ends when she begins talking about the first Slayer's hair, "Also, in terms of hair care, you really wanna say, what kind of impression am I making in the workplace? 'Cause-" then she wakes up. In the commentary, Whedon comments about that scene: "Some people found this to be somewhat anti-climactic. That was, of course, the point. That she defies the notion of climax. That she defies the notion of the 'tragic tale of the Slayer', and basically says 'Let's just put an end to this'. And the more mundane it gets, the closer she gets to waking up. Which actually makes perfect sense. So she sort of saved everybody, in that respect." Hopefully that helps. Drovethrughosts (talk) 13:50, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe rephrasing Whedon's wording into something more like "the dream ends in a mundane way, as Buffy refuses to accept a tragic climax and instead insists on normalcy in her life" or something along those lines (maybe not that exact wording, just brainstorming a bit). rʨanaɢ (talk) 14:56, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  mundane 

message: Sorry it's taken me so long to get around to copyediting this. Here are some comments; it would be good if they can be addressed before the GA review starts, although if they aren't done yet I can ask the GA reviewer to allow you some time to work on them since I only just pointed out these issues. (You might disagree with some of these points, in which case we can discuss them; these are mostly just my style opinions, not necessarily policy issues.)
*The lede should be expanded to summarize the rest of the article, per WP:LEDE.
::Lead has been expanded. Not sure if it needs more, might need a copyedit as well. Drovethrughosts (talk) 14:40, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The filming techniques section was broken up in little paragraphs by another editor from what I originally had, so it looked like some parts were unreferenced, but they weren't - all of that section mainly comes from Whedon's commentary, so I added in the refs where necessary. Does, "The character Dawn appears in the next episode" need a reference? Can't the episode itself serve as a reference for that? I reworded that last bit to remove the foreshadowing of Buffy's death as I'm not sure that's the case, I left the bit about Dracula saying the same phrase to her in the next episode. Drovethrughosts (talk) 14:08, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The fact that Dawn appears in the next episode doesn't need a reference, but I think the connection (i.e., the fact that Tara's line is a pun about that) needs one. Otherwise it looks like WP:OR. rʨanaɢ (talk) 17:07, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

text: I might remove the Twin Peaks bit as Whedon him states the red curtains is not a direct homage to the series and I can't find much of where they said this episode has been compared to Twin Peaks. Drovethrughosts (talk) 14:08, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

text: Lead has been reworked. Drovethrughosts (talk) 14:40, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

text: It's meant to be the space of the red curtains which then leads to a classroom. I could easily remove that part if it's too confusing, given there's already enough examples there. Drovethrughosts (talk) 14:08, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

text: I eliminated the subsection and included it with the main Production and writing section. Drovethrughosts (talk) 14:08, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

text: This is a fine change. As it's referring to the camera lens used, the new wording makes sense. Drovethrughosts (talk) 14:08, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

text: I have added to this section. Drovethrughosts (talk) 14:08, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

text: Again, this was broken up by another editor from what I originally had. I went and grouped the two paragraphs about Xander's dream into one, and merged the paragraphs about Willow and Giles into one. Question: Is it necessary to use the same reference multiple times in a paragraph, or can you just use it once and place it at the end? Because if you use it multiple times in one paragraph, I'm unsure where all they need to placed. Because at the end of every sentence seems excessive if it's all coming from the same source. Drovethrughosts (talk) 16:08, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a tricky issue that I think not everyone agrees about. Personally, I think one reference at the end of the paragraph is sufficient it it's clear that it covers everything. (That is to say, if the various claims in the prose logically flow into each other; a good way to ensure this is add a little introduction or little transitions, e.g., "In the DVD commentary, Whedon describes several of the filming techniques used to give the episode a dreamlike effect. In Xander's dream, odd cutting effects...".) But it also means you should be vigilant in the future, just in case later on someone for instance adds a new claim in the middle of the paragraph, with a different ref; then you might have to do some reshuffling, or citing the original reference again before the new stuff. rʨanaɢ (talk) 17:31, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

text: Found original article! Drovethrughosts (talk) 14:08, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

text: . Drovethrughosts (talk) 14:08, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

text: I cleaned up the prose, as I told Rjanag I'd do a few days ago (I've been sick, sorry), and got more precise with the language regarding film techniques. The article looks good--you guys did lots of good work. I feel that there's still more that could be said about this episode, much more. I also changed back the point of Buffy's lecture about hair care--it's really about hair care for the purpose of making a more professional impression in the workplace, not hair care per se; a small point, but one I like, if no one minds. I also watched the ep to get Tara's words right. It doesn't matter if it's exactly what Drac says; it's the same essential phrase but for one word.--TEHodson 23:33, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comments 

message: Just FYI, about half this book (or more) is about this episode: Pateman, Matthew (2006). The Aesthetics of Culture in Buffy the Vampire Slayer, McFarland & Company, Inc., Publishers. 
--Moni3 (talk) 20:27, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Moni, I've tried to get that book for less than $25, and it's impossible. I'm still looking, but may have to give in and just do it. It's very annoying (it retails for $35 at least). Thanks for the nudge, though.--TEHodson 20:42, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Necessary source 

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thread_title:  External links modified