Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Trains/Archive: 2007, 4

message: The :Category:Future public transportation was getting rather unwieldy as a huge list of projects form Beijing to Basingstoke. There now exists a UK-specific :Category:Future public transportation in the United Kingdom to round up the British projects. Using the template template:future UK public transportation will automatically put an article into that category.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cnbrb (talk • contribs) 01:47, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I also saw  applied to an article today, but it looks like there's a little twiddling that still needs to be done on that template.  Slambo (Speak) 14:56, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Another editor did the twiddling so it now looks correct. Slambo (Speak) 11:03, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Future public transportation 

message: I suggest all railway vehicles operated by China MOR should be named as "China Railways Class XX". --Wrightbus 20:11, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Naming of articles about railway stocks in China 

message: Another editor has proposed that the Trains WikiProject Manual of Style be merged with another page within the greater Wikipedia notability hierarchy.  Please comment at Wikipedia talk:Notability %28Railway lines and stations%29#Merge Wikipedia:WikiProject Trains.2FManual of style.  Slambo (Speak) 13:01, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge proposal 

message: There's an interesting discussion going on at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Council#"Membership" that editors here may be interested in as well.  The main point of the discussion is whether or not we should be using "members" or "participants" on the list of editors who are involved in a WikiProject.  So far, it appears that a consensus may be forming to phase-out "members" in favor of "participants" with some additional explanatory text.  On our own participant list page, we use the term "participants" throughout the text and in the project navigation box, but the page name is under "members" still.  If you have an opinion in this matter, please join the discussion.  Slambo (Speak) 11:21, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "members" and/or "participants" 

message: The article of Searles Valley Minerals Inc., which is the owner of the Trona Railway, is up for deletion.  See discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Searles Valley Minerals Inc..  I created the article because of its rich history and the railway.
NOTE: I did not create the AfD for this article. This is for information purposes only.  --Oakshade 16:09, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm on the fence about the AfD (while I think the company's history means it deserves to have an article, I'm not sure there are enough in-depth sources for an adequate article), so I'm not going to comment there, but I have a suggestion: Save the material, and if the article fails AfD, merge it into Trona Railway; then, after a decent interval, recreate Searles Valley Minerals Inc. as a redirect. --Tkynerd 16:42, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If it goes that way, that's probably a good idea.  It's strange how a railway would be considered "notable", but its corporate owner in which said railway is only a small component of, isn't. Yes, it deserves an article.  Another source has been added since this AfD began  which is  primarily about this company. --Oakshade 19:12, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't really think notability is the issue; I think it's more a lack of sources (which I realize is often closely related to notability). I think that article strengthens the case for keeping the article, so I'm glad you found it and I may comment now. In any case, good luck. --Tkynerd 21:37, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Railway owner article up for deletion 

message: Here's something I've been thinking about lately... There are a large number of templates in :Category:Rail transport gauge templates and they're not all completely standardized.  Some are named with "mm" or "in", some have wikilinks, and each measurement is segregated into its own template.  It seems to me that the optimal solution would be to have one template (perhaps at ) that accepts a single, unnamed parameter to specify which measurement should be displayed (and it would also specify which units should be listed first) and an optional parameter to specify if the unit labels should be links or not.
I have assembled a quick prototype template at User:Slambo/Gauge.  There's more that could be done to this prototype, but it gives you an idea of where I'd like to take this idea.  Thoughts?  Slambo (Speak) 15:04, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm guessing that since nobody's said anything about this that there are no objections to continuing with this idea?  Part of the idea here is that once the consolidated template is built, we phase out the specific templates and replace them with calls to the new template.  Slambo (Speak) 19:12, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Consolidating gauge templates 

message: 9 railway crossing articles of the Isle Of Man Railway are up for deletion.  The batch AfD is at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ballahick.  My guess is it would be best to merge these into one article.  NOTE: I did not initiate this AfD; It's listed here for information purposes since it falls into the scope of this project. --Oakshade 18:04, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rail crossing articles up for deletion 

message: There is a merge proposal that this station be merged into the town it serves. My intuition tells me this is a bad idea, despite the unimpressiveness of the station and the stubbiness of the town article. If any train people could better explain why this isn't a good idea, (or heck, maybe it is) please join the discussion. Thanks. Katr67 05:56, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for adding a link here. I was just about to. Overall, I feel that this is a special case of Amtrak serving a place thats not important otherwise.  (Please have further discussion at Talk:Chemult, Oregon) Jason McHuff 08:15, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Chemult (Amtrak station)]] 

message: Who deleted the logo for the Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority routeboxes? ----DanTD 13:24, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I opened a discussion at commons:Commons:Undeletion requests/Current requests#Image:SEPTA.svg. --NE2 18:41, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  SEPTA logo 

message: Both BNSF 7687 and BNSF 7695 are now nominated for deletion.  Please make your comments on the combined discussion. Slambo (Speak) 23:29, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Two more deletion discussions 

message: On the article about Metro-North's New Haven Line, there are separate routeboxes and color bars for the New Canaan Branch, Danbury Branch and Waterbury Branch. Shouldn't there be the same provisions for various branches of Metra, such as the Blue Island, South Chicago, & McHenry Branches be added? --DanTD 14:50, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Branch bars for [[Metra]] 

message: The person maintaining the bot that gathers all of the assessment statistics has updated the bot to count list-class articles now (see Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Rail transport articles by quality statistics for our current statistics).  The discussion that led to this mentions adding FL-Class for Featured lists and developing a similar grading scale for lists that aren't quite at FL level yet.  I'm working on testing some updates to the  banner to properly handle FL class and to update the List class wording.  Slambo (Speak) 17:51, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My test template is now updated to properly handle the List- and FL-Class articles for all projects.  I plan to slide it in place later tonight. Slambo (Speak) 19:08, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That works for me. Thanks for keeping things up-to-date! --DP67 (talk/contribs) 00:06, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The update is in place now. Slambo (Speak) 12:03, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  List class now appears in the assessment statistics 

message: Corning (Amtrak station) has been nominated for deletion, primarily on the basis of Wikipedia's notability guidelines.  Please leave your comments on the deletion discussion. Slambo (Speak) 12:24, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Note that this isn't exactly a train station since no scheduled passenger trains stop there.  It's a stop for Amtrak's thruway coaches.  Greyhound also uses it and it's a hub for local transit.  --Oakshade 16:42, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just out of curiosity, has it ever been a train station before? ----DanTD 18:02, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone mentioned in the AFD page that the station was built recently (late 1990s, I think) as an Amtrak motorcoach station next to tracks such that it could become a station to serve trains directly if Amtrak California's Capitol service is extended there.  Many of the resources in my personal reference library don't cover structures this new.  Slambo (Speak) 18:41, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another afd 

message: Another editor has suggested that the Mass Rapid Transit (Singapore) article might not be featured article quality and stated his objections in the review proposal.  It was removed from the main review page because the nominator put up three other articles at the same time for review.  However, this gives us a chance to be a little proactive with this nom so we can clear up some of the problems before the review request is added again.  If you have time, please view the objection list and work on the items that you can to help keep this article at FA status.  Thanks.  Slambo (Speak) 15:53, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rail article suggested for Featured Article Review 

message: Someone has asked on the Reference desk here what you call the platform on the back of a caboose where politicians would stand on a whistle-stop tour. I Googled and came up with "platform", but I can't believe there isn't a more colorful railroad jargon word for it. If anybody here knows, please answer at the link above or on my talk page. --Milkbreath 00:34, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ref desk question 

message: I've just created a new article Royal Blue (B&O train) and also did a major edit on Capitol Limited (B&O). JGHowes talk -  17:23, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  B&O passenger trains 

message: This might be every Korean subway station article up for deletion.  The discussion is at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Taepyeong Station.  My commentary here is that 250 is a farcical amount of articles on any topic to put up for deletion at once.  I think even 20 is too much.  250 might be a record.  --Oakshade (talk) 08:06, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  250 Korean subway station articles up for deletion 

message: Okay, I think I should warn some of the expert editors here that there's a serious malfunction with the routeboxes for the New Jersey Transit stations along the North Jersey Coast Line. ----DanTD (talk) 02:14, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  NJT Routebox Malfunction 

message: Hello all. I've modified the s-rail set of templates (specifically, :Template:S-line/side cell) to populate :Category:S-line templates with missing parameters if a problem is detected. At the moment, this is just for templates with a broken termini. Best, Mackensen (talk) 20:27, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New s-rail feature 

message: I've been confirmed as a clinician for the National Model Railroad Association's 2008 national convention, to be held next July in Anaheim, California.  One of the clinics that I will present is titled "What's new with WikiProject Trains?" where I will discuss what has occurred in this project since the 2007 convention in Detroit.  When I presented the clinic in Detroit, about half of the clinic time was discussing how to do research and write about rail transport topics and half was about what we are currently doing here at TWP.  I was a last minute late night add-on to the Detroit clinic schedule due to a mix up in paperwork outside of my control, but there were attendees at both sessions (this has not happened to me at previous conventions, so I see it as an isolated incident).
I've started a page at User:Slambo/NMRA where I will collect information that should be presented at the clinic next summer, and I invite all participants here to edit and point out what should be included.  Any other TWP participants in the area next summer are also invited to register for the convention to tag along and heckle help at the clinic presentation too.  Thanks.  Slambo (Speak) 15:58, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clinic for 2008 NMRA convention 

message: An editor tagged several section of History of rail transport in Ireland as POV and a few days ago deleted them all citing lack of sources, not POV. Unfortunately I don't have any of my Irish railway books assessable, so cannot help, but maybe someone where can have a look and assist. Most of what was deleted is factual, perhaps not that well written and possibly with a POV slant but not total POV and certainly salvageable and, I am sure, can be sourced. If this project has a better place to post this please move it there. Thanks ww2censor (talk) 04:25, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've made a pass over it to remove the most glaring POV problems. As I know nothing at all about Irish rails the resulting version needs serious scrutiny to make sure I haven't made a mess of things. Mangoe (talk) 14:55, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  History of rail transport in Ireland 

message: The article Trans-Siberian Railway hasn't been rendering properly for a while with many templates displayed as a link to the template rather than displayed inline.  The problem is that the large number of templates (most likely through the three transcluded route diagrams in ,  and ) are pushing the article beyond the pre-expand include size.  I remember seeing a more detailed description of why this error state occurs, but I can't find the link to the page.
The article needs to be refactored to reduce the number of templates; I would suggest that this be done by splitting the three routes into their own articles and further dividing the article as needed in summary style.  Anyone up for it (and continue discussion there)?  Slambo (Speak) 21:34, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trans-Siberian Railway article is beyond the technical limits for Wikipedia 

message: The Cardiff Central to Nottingham Line article is up for deletion.  The discussion is at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cardiff Central to Nottingham Line. (note:I did not initiate this AfD. It's listed here for informational purposes.) --Oakshade (talk) 06:34, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Train project article up for deletion 

message: :Category:Montreal commuter rail has been nominated for deletion. 132.205.99.122 22:51, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Did it have any articles in it?  The category appears empty with no rail transport parent categories right now.  Slambo (Speak) 21:40, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: At one time it did have articles in it. 132.205.99.122 (talk) 23:56, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: At the very least, this should be there. I'm going to add the category to the page now. --Tkynerd (talk) 01:18, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Changing my mind -- :Category:Agence métropolitaine de transport should be under :Category:Montreal commuter rail. I'll reverse what I did above and make that new change. --Tkynerd (talk) 01:21, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Category:Montreal commuter rail 

message: This time, it's Union Station (Tampa) ----DanTD (talk) 21:30, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another broken routebox 

message: OK, forgive me for having a scatter brain, but I've started yet another infobox project using many of the same features I've implemented in the new loco infobox. For a preliminary peek look here. I use as many of the interchangeable options I could. But have not yet had the chance to change the builders or anything yet. But its a sneak peek..
:--DP67 (talk/contribs) 07:30, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Parallel project Rolling Stock Infobox

message: Just a heads-up more than anything on this issue...  Per a discussion on WP:AN citing irregular domain registration and linking, all links to the famousamericans domain are in the process of being removed.  Several pages on my watchlist were affected by this removal, but looking at the data that was referenced, it's mostly birth/death dates and places that we should be able to reference out to more reliable sources without too much trouble.  Slambo (Speak) 19:18, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Like with the image deletions and fair use criteria enforcement, this issue has also raised the hackles of more than one editor.  For the curious, here is the list of pages that used to link to the domain in question.  The individual article histories will show exactly where the links were removed so we know what information that needs referencing via other means. Slambo (Speak) 18:08, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Frequently used web reference is now on the spam blacklist 

message: Dear Wikimedians,
This is a (belated) announcement that requests are now being taken for illustrations to be created for the Philip Greenspun illustration project (PGIP).
The aim of the project is to create and improve illustrations on Wikimedia projects. You can help by identifying which important articles or concepts are missing illustrations (diagrams) that could make them a lot easier to understand. Requests should be made on this page: Philip_Greenspun_illustration_project/Requests
If there's a topic area you know a lot about or are involved with as a Wikiproject, why not conduct a review to see which illustrations are missing and needed for that topic? Existing content can be checked by using Mayflower to search Wikimedia Commons, or use the Free Image Search Tool to quickly check for images of a given topic in other-language projects.
The community suggestions will be used to shape the final list, which will be finalised to 50 specific requests for Round 1, due to start in January. People will be able to make suggestions for the duration of the project, not just in the lead-up to Round 1.
* General information about the project: m:Philip_Greenspun_illustration_project
* Potential illustrators and others interested in the project should join the mailing list: mail:greenspun-illustrations
thanks, pfctdayelise (talk) 12:50, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[m:GIP|Greenspun illustration project]]: requests now open 

message: I don't know if this has ever been considered before, but I'd like to know how the rest of you feel about combining articles on Jefferson Park (CTA) with Jefferson Park (Metra), and possibly Irving Park (CTA Blue Line) with Irving Park (Metra). Considering what I've read about Jefferson Park, I think the best thing for those two would be to redirect and combine them into a single article called Jefferson Park Trasit Center or Jefferson Park (CTA-Metra), or even a combination of the two. ----DanTD (talk) 00:09, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: UPDATE: As some of you probably know, I'm already working on a combination page for Jefferson Park, although I'm not sure I should do one for Irving Park. and I definitley don't want to do one for Montrose (CTA Blue Line) and Mayfair (Metra). ----DanTD (talk) 18:50, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Metra-CTA Combination Stations 

message: I've mentioned this before on the BNSF Railway Line page, and nobody responded here, so now I'm bringing it here;  There's a problem with the map in this article. It connects to the wrong Western Avenue Station. Instead of going to the Western Avenue (Metra BNSF Railway Line), it goes to the Western Avenue (Metra Milwaukee District/North Line). And I can't find a way to fix the thing. --DanTD (talk) 23:57, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  BNSF Map glitch 

message: On the article about Somerset the Great Western Railway is mentioned & referenced with [Clark, G. T.] (1839) Guidebook to the Great Western Railway & [Clark, G. T.] (1846) The History and Description of the Great Western Railway. Its currently on FAC at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Somerset & a reviewer has asked for "publisher and (if available) ISBN" - has anyone got any further info (before ISBNs) or could provide alternative references to support the statements about the GWR??— Rod talk 17:32, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Since they were published in the mid-19th century, it's pretty unlikely that there'll be any ISBNs for either unless they've been reprinted.  A quick look on Amazon shows the second was reprinted by John C. Bourne with ASIN B00088SMEK.  Slambo (Speak) 18:11, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  References re Great Western Railway 

message: Hello readers of WikiProject Trains!
I just wondered if any of you would be interested in joining up to Train Spotting World, a wiki just for railways and similar things! We are also in the process of setting up several "Workforces", similar to WikiProjects, and were wondering if anyone wnated to help!
Various wikipedians have goine over there, including myself, User:Tbo 157, User:Slambo, User:EdJogg, User:Timtrent and User:S.C.Ruffeyfan.
If you want more info, or have joined up and want some guidance, let me know here or there on my talk page!
Thanks,
Bluegoblin7 18:34, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just wanted to point out that the intention is NOT to 'poach' editors from WP -- you are needed here!<BR> All the listed editors are still active at WP, but TSW allows a little more creative freedom...<BR>Feel free to join us editing in both Wikis.<BR>EdJogg (talk) 02:10, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A new wiki specially for Trains... 

message: I have checked List of defunct United States railroads#Commuter railroads. Mangoe (talk) 14:07, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Completion log

message: I have just created a template Rapid transit in Europe and would welcome improvement. It is adapted from Template:Europe topic although currently there will be only one transclusion until other articles are created. Some places may also needed to be removed due to lack of in that area. 
It currently looks like 
 
Simply south (talk) 21:12, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No longer exists, userfied. Simply south (talk) 21:44, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Template:Europe topic and Rapid transit in Europe 

message: An anonymous user is putting this service into route boxes in the West country, using the Wessex Main Line, which does not go to London, as a link. I would change the boxes but could someone confirm my check that this service does not exist? Stations I have found so far are Westbury railway station, Bath Spa railway station and Warminster railway station.  Thanks. Britmax (talk) 19:16, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not quite sure about whether these services are on the Wessex Main Line but they do serve the stations shown therefore the service does indeed exist. By the looks of it, trains go once every three hours. Simply south (talk) 21:43, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes a little more searching by me confirms that, so it seems to be a good faith addition. Thanks for your help. The trains seem to use the Wessex Main Line to Salisbury then go to Waterloo via the Waterloo - Exeter (West of England Main Line)Line. This means the use of the Wessex Main Line in the boxes is to my mind understandable but inaccurate. This needs some thought as it's mired in the classic route/line debate.  Hey Ho! Britmax (talk) 23:10, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Direct Waterloo - Bristol Service