Talk:Rapping/Archive 1

message: I removed the following, which states that Much early rap did not contain any samples:
"probably due to the fact that at the time (1979-1985) the equipment was not as readily available."
However, as turntables and single pole double throw switches had been around for a while, were widely available, and were the basis of hip hop music... Hyacinth 01:34, 6 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed

message: I haven't seen much discussion in this article about the evolution of rhyme-styles from the late 70's, the mid 80's, the 90's, to the present. For example, the generally simple structure of Run-DMC rhymes compared to Chino XL, Nas, etc. Alexander 007 06:25, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that would be interesting. TimMony 06:48, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Evolution of Rhyme Styles 

message: Rap music, since it references the genre, should redirect to hip hop music. Rap should arguably redirect to rapping, although it might be best to link-check and disambig each article manually (not a one-person task by any means). --b. Touch 00:46, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  redirecting 

message: This move needs to happen, because people are mistakingly confusing this as the page for "rap music" which, again, is at hip hop music. --FuriousFreddy 17:28, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Move to "Emceeing"

message: Rapping was a term in popular use in the 1960s and 1970s, used synonymously with both casual, open-ended conversational dialogues (often called "rap sessions") and beat poetry. I wonder if, in fact, the initial use of the term by hip hop music artists reflected a recognition and extension of that previous common usage? 
--Markzero 12:03, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: But that's essentially a dictdef. And that use of the term is still common (though probably not as common). And as far as the use of the term "rapping" having been derived from the earlier definition, it's very possible, especially since the term "hip-hop" predates the use of "rapping" to mean what MCs do by a few years. --FuriousFreddy 21:40, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, I'm new; I don't really know what's wrong with using a dictionary-style definition, when appropriate. I just don't believe that the introduction, "Rapping, the rhythmic delivery of rhymes," is completely truthful, because it immediately limits the term, ignoring its valid use as a term for a sociological phenomenon that predates hip hop and rap music, and is still in use today by some people when they talk about sitting down in freewheeling discussions, whether performance-oriented or casual and personal. Not that I'm trying to give the musical artform a "bad rap," or anything. --Markzero 07:56, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  This unfairly limits the scope of rapping to its use in contemporaneous popular culture. 

message: does someone have a source on run DMC being the FIRST group in rap-rock?  cus im pretty sure they were just the first ones to be noticed for it- after all, from what ive read from bambataa, punks and new wavers were bringing their music to the clubs in the inner city all the time.
also, wasn't there someone(was it ice-t) who did some first ever collab with the rock/metal group, anthrax?  just want to make sure this is all sourced...im hoping to get this article featured eventually if we work it up!
:We have a featured article on hip hop music, where you'll find much of that information. --FuriousFreddy 02:51, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: That whole paragraph needs to be revised. Will do it now. --FuriousFreddy 03:09, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  first rap/rock collabs 

message: Shouldn't we create a page devoted to hip hop production, yknow the part of hip hop that focuses on the beat only, not the raps, or the djing techniques of turntablism?  If we're gonna have a page like this focused on the history and techniques of rapping, why not of beat production as well.
As a sidenote, I was wondering if youre an emcee, or dj, or whatever in real life, and if so, where you representin.
peace, --Urthogie 03:21, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: We have articles on DJing and turntablism, and hip hop music goes into detail about the time signatures, types of swing, and production style of hip-hop music. Take a little while and browse around :Category:Hip hop, to get an idea of what kind of coverage we currently have. Perhaps the coverage of production at hip hop music could be spun off into an article called Record production in hip hop music (we already have an overall article for record producer). By the way, to answer your other question, I'm a producer and engineer, and I live in Florida. --FuriousFreddy 04:14, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

text: I do both hip-hop and R&B, but haven't done too much in recent months because of work schedules. I've been sort of out of the loop as of late, hope to get things reorganized in the new year. --FuriousFreddy 05:14, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  consideration of another article 

message: "Outkast combined old school rapping with funk reminiscent of Earth Wind and Fire, while Eminem channelled the rage and angst of hard rock into melodic hip-hop songs featuring his tortured rants."
That's a POV claim, and very unencyclopedic considering its unsourced.  If you can find a more reputable source to backup those claims(even though I agree with them, that doesn't mean their encyclopedic), we can put them in the article.  Thanks, very much--Urthogie 08:13, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  modern era section edit still pov 

message: Genre boxes (of the type that was previously in the upper right hand corner of the article) are only for articles about music genres. It doesn't belong here or at hip hop culture. --FuriousFreddy 06:17, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's not what I read about genre boxes.  One sec, I'll get a quote that says all relevant pages should have one.--Urthogie 11:19, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm, my mistake, wikiproject music does suggest putting it only on the main page. I thought it helped navigation though.  If you plan on removing them from all the articles besides genre pages, I can help you.  Here's a list of pages I put it on(--Urthogie 11:21, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

text: The horizontal infobox at the bottom is the one to use for navigation for each hip-hop related page. But it's all good. --FuriousFreddy 17:56, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  genre box? 

message: I am converting the table of other genres that use hip hop into prose paragraphs, as prose is almost always preferable to lists for an encyclopedia article. --FuriousFreddy 04:26, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks good(I'll do some minor copy-edits, but nothing big).  One questions, though-- whyd you restore traditional forms?  These aren't even traditional forms.  Theyre all a)subgenres or b)completely unrelated.--Urthogie 10:40, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They're examples of similar forms of expression in other cultures. I changed the header. --FuriousFreddy 12:05, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I still don't think the section should be there.  It seems like any poetry can be compared to rapping in some way or another.--Urthogie 13:40, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: According the articles on those forms, they are indeed similar enough to rapping that they deserve mention. Not all forms of poetry or vocalization are. --FuriousFreddy 01:40, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Urdu rap isn't a traditional form-- its a fusion genre(similar to say..Hip house or Electro Hop).  Also, I don't think we should use wikipedia articles as an authoritative source for anything.  Until these are verified by outside, authoritative sources as being similar to rapping, they shouldn't be there on that list.--Urthogie 09:51, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup of mention of uses outside of hip hop 

message: I removed the Kid-n-Play picture, not because it's Kid-n-Play, but because it's a production still from Class Act. We need a picture of a rapper (don't care who, but I'd actually prefer it be a non-famous rapper or even just a photographic model) onstage wit ha microphone in their hands, looking like they are rapping. --FuriousFreddy 06:43, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A picture of a rapper in a studio would be best I think.--Urthogie 16:46, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

text: I'd prefer onstage to in a studio (or on a streetcorner), but the important part is that it be a person in the process of rapping, and that it be a free pic. Tuf-Kat 18:12, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Top image. 

message: What is the best way to link to media in this article?--Urthogie 22:00, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  sound links 

message: Just in case anybody is wondering, I asked permission to use the SPM lyric:--Urthogie 19:52, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  permission to use SPM lyric 

message: Is this a joke?!--Greasysteve13 06:41, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Why shouldn't they be there?--Urthogie 10:19, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: For starters the vast vast vast majority only know who they are by clicking the link. To have them up the top suggests people should know who they are.--Greasysteve13 02:09, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you find a better looking picture that features people rapping on stage feel free to replace it.--Urthogie 09:41, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

text: I have no idea who they are and I don't see much wrong with the picture.  It's free rather than fair use, for a start, and features people actually rapping (rather than just someone icegrillin the camera).   The only problem is that it's really dark.  How popular they are is irrelevant.  --Jamieli 10:56, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay. I just thought it was misleading.--Greasysteve13 00:23, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Whatever it takes. I actually like the use of an unknown group as the lead image, because it prevents the controversy of "how come my favorite rapper is not up there?" If it comes down to it, I will go and dress a friend up in Sean John, hand them a microphone, snap, upload, and caption. --FuriousFreddy 18:34, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My girlfriend offered to shake her ass for a picture, so I'll work on one as well, lol.  Anyways, I just feel weird knowing that I am giving The Herd a fanbase 10 times greater than what it currently has by having it on this page.  Also, not to mention the picture is too dark.--Urthogie 19:06, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right about the latter. I don't suppose we couild use a screenshot of a fictional rapper (not being played by a rapper) from a movie like Hustle & Flow (though not that film)? --FuriousFreddy 01:04, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

text: To FuriousFreddy: Fair enough. But I thought the use of the picture was misleading because it may unintentionally imply that they are "somebody". As for who should be up there: I'd put either the most popular (successful) rapper in the world (whomever he may be), or someone credited with breaking rap into the mainstream (or an otherwise noted pioneer to rap).--Greasysteve13 08:29, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Numbers 2 (Busta Rhymes), 3 (Run-D.M.C.), and 5 (Slick Rick) are the best. As a compromise for Greasysteve13's suggestions, #3 (with a very, very well-worded fair-use disclaimer on the image description page) is probably the best choice. --FuriousFreddy 20:51, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I contacted the owners of #3 a couple days ago and I'm yet to get a response for permission.  Does it say anywhere on their site that we can use it?(as a sidenote, check this out!)--Urthogie 12:10, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Stunning.--Greasysteve13 06:40, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture of [[The Herd]] right up the top.