Talk:Republic of Indian Stream

message: I removed the link to the Free State Project article because I don't see how it's relevant. While they're occuring at the same rough geographic location, I don't see any other relationship between them. If anyone disagrees, feel free to readd it, but please leave a comment about why you're doing so. Alereon 15:49, July 16, 2005 (UTC)
:If you knew anything about the FSP, you'd likely understand the linkage. The FSP grew out of the dissertation of Jason Sorens on secessionist and self-determination movements in history. The state constitutional environment in New Hampshire that tolerated the establishement of the Republic of Indian Stream, of limited government and self determination, is considered to be contributory to the present environment in NH which attracted the FSP to choose it as their destination. It would behoove you to research your topics before you edit them. To do otherwise is POV. Citizenposse 20:44, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed Free State Project link 

message: That would be amazing if it was still around, or the minutes or election info of the Legislature, or Governor... or SOMETHING. I realize it's a little obscure, but anyone think that these still exist somewhere? 68.39.174.238 21:27, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The constitution is contained in Showerman's 1915 book on Luther Parker.Jeff in CA (talk) 23:31, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  An actual Constitution? 

message: During the period under consideration, the territory borders on the British Colony of 
Lower Canada, *not* the Province of Quebec. There still need to be the Lower Canada Rebellions of 1837 and 1838, leading to the union of the two Canadas (Lower and Upper), producing Canada West (Ontario) and
Canada East (Quebec). It's only after Confederation in 1867 that there is a Province of Quebec.
Varlaam 00:55, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This article's map should be revised.  Instead of saying "British Province of Quebec", it should say "British Colony of Lower Canada  (Quebec eff 1867)". GBC (talk) 18:20, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  It does not border "Quebec" per se 

message: The impression I get from the article suggests that this was a fully functional nation-state, which surely means it wasn't a micronation? Indeed, it sounds like it's status is more similar to that of [] than, say, Sealand.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by FutureDragon (talk • contribs) 18:03, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with you, but where does it imply or say in the article that it was a micronation?  Someone recently briefly categorized it as such, but I removed the category. --Ken Gallager (talk) 19:39, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  In the WikiProject banners at the top of this talk page. While that might not be "in the article" per se, it's still connected to it. Cooljeanius (talk) (contribs) 05:15, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: A Micronation?

message: I saw this and thought it might be of interest to editors of this article. Here are some translated excerpts from a 1906 published report that was written in French, La République d'Indian Stream, by François Joseph Audet.
The excerpts that are translated below come from "Google Translate," but I have carefully edited the English translation provided by Google for readability and meaning in context.  A part of the translated excerpts is a re-translation back into English from the French translation of the original English correspondence.  As I don't have the original English letter, I cannot provide those words directly.   The 1906 document is characterized by flowery prose; however, I chose to limit these excerpts to factual statements and conclusions drawn from the report.
This is in the Public Domain in the United States and is Google-digitized. See http://hdl.handle.net/2027/hvd.32044105247910 
La République d'Indian Stream, by François Joseph Audet (1867-1943), 1906     
…
The notes that we have collected and compiled on the Republic of Indian Stream – which has made little noise in the world but whose short story was nevertheless quite momentous  – though incomplete, we believe are enough to give an exact idea of its origin, development and end. 
…
The Republic of Indian Stream, bounded on the southeast by the Connecticut River and the stream whose name she bore, and to the west by Halls Stream, was located in the current Coos County, State of
New Hampshire, north of the forty-fifth parallel. She was surrounded by many small streams, tributaries of the Connecticut River.
For over half a century, this small property was involved in rather important negotiations that took place between Great Britain and the United States regarding the border between Canada and the neighboring republic. It seems however to have remained unknown to our historians.
Should this small republic be regarded as an independent state or as a single municipality? This question was posed to us. We believe we can conclude that this republic was indeed exerting the sovereign functions of an independent state. The acts of the inhabitants of the territory and the decisions of Judge Fletcher seem to fully confirm this progress.  The people of Indian Stream, having governed themselves, are indeed considered as a neutral nation.  Their government consisted of a board of five members elected annually.
…
Judge John Fletcher of Sherbrooke [raised some concerns] in a letter dated April, 1835, to Lord Aylmer, then Governor of Lower Canada, and he admitted not being able to resolve them despite his deep knowledge of the region:
:"As you know," he wrote, "for several years at our southeastern border there has existed a kind of extra-national institution, generally known under the name of Indian Stream Settlement, which, like other similar anomalies, came out of the work of diplomats who prepared the famous peace treaty with the United States in 1783. I remember having heard of this republic many years ago, and for a long time I intended to go and visit its people, to make me aware of things and enable me to better do my duty as regards that part of the country, but my many activities here have prevented me from doing this project.
:"It would appear now," he continued, "that the growing prosperity and the wealth of this part of the country have long attracted the attention of the government of the neighboring state of New Hampshire.  Accordingly, they sent to it a few years ago, a surveyor to determine the most northwestern point of a stream on which the Connecticut River was dependent.  He could, naturally, he thought, have no difficulty in proving to our government that this should be the most northwestern source of the Connecticut River, and a stream with its source at this point, however small it was, or whatever name it wore, was actually the Connecticut River itself, which, according to the terms of the Treaty, constituted the border.
:"It seems that this gentleman was very happy in his research, having found that by admitting that one of the sources of a small stream that flows into the Connecticut River was actually the source of the latter, they may well enlarge considerably the state of New Hampshire at the cost of Lower Canada, and the constituted authorities have instituted  prosecutions for sedition and high treason against some inhabitants of the small republic for daring to question their supremacy over a large portion of territory that had until now been viewed by error and ignorance as part of Lower Canada.
:"A man I had never seen or known," added Mr. Fletcher, "but who seems to me to have good manners and a good dose of intelligence, came to see me last Saturday, as Commissioner of the Indian Stream Settlement, which is one of the principal officials. The object of his mission seemed to be to ask my protection and to notify, through me, the governments of Canada and the Empire, about some invasion of their territory by the sheriff of the neighboring county of Coos, which took place, it appears, under the pretext of executing some criminal proceedings against offenders who had refused to recognize the universal supremacy of the U.S.; and this invasion threat, if renewed, could be the cause of bloodshed. The consequence of this arbitrary measure was that the vast majority of Republicans have become very dedicated and loyal subjects of His Majesty, and they are now all absolutely convinced that the true Connecticut River is actually the one that is mentioned in the Treaty of Paris, and they should be designated as living north of the border. I replied that I would submit the case to Your Excellency."
:"I, Judge Fletcher, transmit simultaneously, a petition of the inhabitants of this territory, in which they expose their grievances, asking for help and protection, and recognize the jurisdiction of Lower Canada. For a long time the government of the state of New Hampshire has claimed this territory as its own, and G. Sullivan, Attorney of Coos County, maintained that it was under the jurisdiction of Coos County and supported the officers of their courts as having justifiable cause to exercise their functions. On the other hand, the government of Lower Canada claimed it also had the area surveyed in 1792, by Samuel Holland, surveyor-general of the province, and it had been included in Drayton Township."
In a report dated March 9, 1793, Holland pointed out to the Lieutenant Governor, Alfred Clarke, the idea of considering Halls Stream as the boundary instead of the Connecticut River, as it appeared to be the origin, while New Hampshire has stated its position only recently, and he added: "The border between Lower Canada and the part of the former province of New York today called Vermont, as traced by the authorities of the two provinces during the 1772-73-74 years, crosses the stream named Halls Stream and proceeds thence east to the stream which has always been and still bears the name of Connecticut River. This river, according to what I have always heard and understood," he said, "has always been considered the New Hampshire border."
… For some years, American Loyalists, driven from their homes by the revolution, flocked to the Eastern Townships, and the first inhabitants of this region probably were these political refugees.
…
Moreover, being subject to no law, it soon became a place of refuge for a diverse group that desired to live freely.  But, with the population increasing, it was soon discovered that although absolute freedom was a fine thing in theory, there was a need to organize and provide some form of government, which was formed as we have seen, named the Board of Directors, and they named the new state the Republic of Indian Stream.
New citizens soon became quite numerous.  At the beginning of 1835, the establishment of Indian Stream contained sixty-nine families, composed of four hundred and fourteen people, and it was very prosperous. Each family head had a hundred acres of land, and there were more than fifteen hundred acres under cultivation. 
…
On January 20, 1835, William Smith, Assistant Coos County Sheriff, imprisoned one of the residents, Joseas Powell, in Lancaster, seat of his county, on the complaint of a Luther Parker. The people, outraged by this arbitrary process, protested loudly with reason against this act they viewed as an affront to their freedom and privilege they had enjoyed until then to govern themselves. But, feeling powerless in the face of this formidable opponent, they threw themselves into the arms of the leadership of the government of Canada and sent one of their advisors to Judge Fletcher, to tell them what had just happened and to ask for help and protection against the invaders, as he says in his letter.  Shortly after Parker entered Canada, he was arrested on 2 July and imprisoned in Sherbrooke, seat of Saint-François District.
The annual elections of the small republic took place as usual, on 9 March 1835. The names of the advisors elected that year: Richard J. Blanchard, Jeremiah Tabor, Burley Blood, Abner Hyland and William White.  The new administration turned to Judge Fletcher to activate the negotiations that seemed to be hardly moving. 
On 8 June, William Badger, governor of New Hampshire, claimed in his message to the legislature, under the law of that State to exercise jurisdiction over all the territory in dispute.  "Firstly, because," he said, "the area is within the border set by the Treaty of 1783" and cited in support of his claims, the same words referring to the Treaty and certain Patent Letters granting land to different people, and the proclamation of the English sovereign describing Canada's borders, after the transfer in 1763; "wherein," he added, "we would even be entitled to more than we ask. Second, we declare the actual possession of the territory in question since 1783."  He then tried to demonstrate what the most northwestern source of the Connecticut River is, referring to a report of a committee of the Legislature of New Hampshire, dated January 6, 1790, which was appointed to demarcate the boundary between this state and Lower Canada, he quoted the fact that a resolution had been passed by his government in 1820, authorizing the Attorney General to institute proceedings against any person who illegally established within the lands of this state, and that consequently as a result became a resident of the territory that had been in dispute. …
On 12 October of the same year (1835), one John H. Tyler, resident of Hereford Township, close to that of Drayton, having gone into the latter township, was set upon and arrested for debt, by those who tried to take him to jail in New Hampshire, but he escaped.  [This ignited a serious incident.] …
Many exchanges of correspondence and documents occurred between governments of Lower Canada and New Hampshire, but with it amounting to nothing, the imperial authorities addressed, through Ambassador Lord Aylmer, their complaints to the central government in Washington. However, the talks dragged on and nothing was decided.
Residents of Indian Stream, always threatened by New Hampshire authorities, exposed to incessant harassment of Coos County officials, and not being rescued by the British government, finally lost courage.  Some left this region that had become so inhospitable, others decided to avoid greater bloodshed, to transfer their dedication and loyalty to the American republic, and on August 5, (1835) they announced through Judge Fletcher that they now recognized the jurisdiction of New Hampshire. …
Jeff in CA (talk) 04:20, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I have been reading Daniel Doan's 1997 book, Indian Stream Republic: Settling a New England Frontier, 1785–1842. The author states that the capitulation of "thirty-odd" members of the Indian Stream Assembly to the threats of force from Coos County Sheriff White, with two companies of infantry nearby at the ready, occurred on August 4, 1835. Jeff in CA (talk) 04:55, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  1906 published report on the Republic of Indian Stream 

message: I had heard that the Republic of Indian Stream had been "annexed" to New Hampshire-by the Sheriff of Coos County, but wasn't certain of the date. 
Since I have a printed copy of "Felix S. Cohen's Handbook of Federal Indian Law" (not the original edition, nor the [US Dep't of the Interior's] censored version, but the University of New Mexico Press edition [reportedly of Cohen's original manuscript-presumably the 1971 printing, as it has no copyright page or publication date on the back of the title page] ), I had searched for references to appropriate treaties, etc., there. My local library Reference Librarian showed me that a current publisher (LexisNexus) has a 2015 update to Cohen's Handbook of Federal Indian Law. I would ask that the Wikipedia note the 2015 updated LexisNexus and prior Lexis/Nexus editions, as the treaties pertaining to the Republic of Indian Stream may be cited there. Thank You.  Robert Olcott (r_olcott@hotmail.com)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.14.173.226 (talk) 20:13, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Treaty References to the Republic of Indian Stream / Felix S. Cohen's Handbook of Federal Indian Law 

message: The actual minutes of the assembly meetings of Indian Stream are now available online in a publication titled: The History of Indian Stream and Luther Parker.  https://archive.org/details/indianstreamrepu00show/page/68/mode/2up  The book is in the collection of the New Hampshire Historical Society. 
I ran across this after discovering that one of my ancestors, John Haynes, was an initial settler of the Indian Stream Republic.  These notes are very interesting reading for anyone who is studying governments and their formation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by EHFriend (talk • contribs) 13:01, June 28, 2020 (UTC)
:Yes, this is the 1915 Grant Showerman book mentioned above in the section, “An actual constitution?” Jeff in CA (talk) 06:28, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Assembly Notes 1832-1835