Talk:Warren National University/Archive 2

message: I have edited the article regarding Kennedy-Western University because I believe it contained information which was both biased and incorrect. 
According to Wikipedia's own definition, a "Diploma Mill" is defined as "an organization which awards academic degrees and diplomas with very little or no academic study and without recognition by official accrediting bodies."
It is true that Kennedy-Western is not recognized by official accrediting bodies, mostly because it offers programs using non-traditional methods. By "non-traditional", it would mean that the student reads the textbooks for a particular course, and takes examinations online.
But to say that a student can be awarded a degree with "Very little or no academic study" is incorrect. Students are required to take classes in their programs. Kennedy-Western usually does require that students have some college level class work, usually a minimum of an associates degree or equivalent, before beginning any program of study. 
It is true that Kennedy-Western was the center of some controversy, particularly in the State of Oregon. This issue has been settled however.
I would add that Kennedy-Western vigorously defends its reputation and insists that it challenges its student.
Finally it must be said that, as a student of Kennedy-Western, who is pursuing a Bachelors of Science in Electrical Engineering, the author of this article would state that it does take time and effort to earn a degree at this institution. One does not merely purchase a degree. It has taken this author over a year of intensive study and testing and may take as much as two years. Having already had one bachelor's degree and using those credits, this would be no different than the amount of time and effort to pursue a degree at a traditional University anywhere else.
Piercetp 03:22, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Diploma mill claims

message: I would like to thank Rkowalke for the contribution. I notice that Rkowalke is new to Wikipedia. A most hearty WP:Welcome, I hope that you enjoy editing here on Wikipedia. TallMagic 23:33, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Rkowalke, thank you so much for responding on this talk page. Plagiarism is an infringment on copyright. The text that you admitted you copied from the WNU website is copyrighted by WNU. Wikipedia articles belong to Wikipedia not to the entities that the article is about. You copied text that belonged to WNU and put it on Wikipedia as if Wikipedia now owned the copyright. That is plagiarism. Please see WP:CITE and Wikipedia:Copyright_problems. TallMagic 20:34, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

text: You did not WP:CITE where you copied the text from. You admit that you did that. Yet you say that you have cited reliable sources. This is incorrect. Anything copied from somewhere else must be clearly marked as a quote and the exact source must be given. You copied the so called government quotes from the WNU site. I found the location later. You must WP:CITE sources directly. TallMagic 20:34, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Regarding your assertion that the WNU article is not balanced, you are welcome to add reliably sourced comments that are positive. The WNU website itself cannot be reasonably used for this. At least not in the way you have done it so far. Any comments on the general quality of WNU must be backed by a reliable source. This is the type of thing that you kept trying to add to the article with no source. The unstated source was the WNU website itself. WNU is not a reliable source for self serving statements. This applies not only to WNU but to any source. WP:RS#What_is_a_reliable_source.3F There are probably a half dozen reliably sourced articles that could be referenced that call KWU/WNU a diploma mill. My view is that the article is balanced and not overly negative because not all these articles have been referenced. It would make the article overly negative if it did. TallMagic 20:34, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

text: I am a Wikipedian. I do not have any personal interest or axe to grind on this article. Wikipedia:Tendentious_editing#What_is_tendentious_editing.3F I have never been a KWU/WNU student. I have never directly contacted KWU/WNU nor have they ever contacted me. I'm simply honestly interested in improving Wikipedia. You may reference my contributions to Wikipedia if you're interested. My reference to the irony regarding the plagairism was not intended to be insulting. TallMagic 20:34, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

text: I would also like you to keep the following in mind. It is the responsibility of the editor to provide reliable sourced references for their edits. If this is not done then your edits can and should be reverted. TallMagic 20:34, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

text: I don't know what TallMagic means. It was just an anti-computer code word that had to be typed in when I created my account and I decided that was a reasonable handle to use for my account. BTW, starting a new topic is done by clicking on the + tab on the top border or creating a new section manually, e.g., == ? ==. If one is just responding on the same topic then one typically responds in the same section. Regards, TallMagic 02:17, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Faculty Section plus miscellaneous (plagiarism)

message: http://www.onlinedegreereviews.org/college/warren-national-university/
The last comment in this lengthy exchange stated that the Warren National will be accredited sometime in 2008 or 2009. If anyone can confirm this please let us know.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.210.252.150 (talk) 02:15, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It was signed by "Dr J Bear", I don't know if this was the John Bear or a fake. 69.210.252.150 02:18, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

text: It would be impossible to confirm that WNU will be accredited at any certain time. I don't think the agency has yet investigated WNU. One thing I do know is that if WNU reaches candidacy for accreditation then they will most likely become accredited. The most difficult hurdle is becoming a candidate. Once a candidate, then one needs to continue with the same policies and academic rigor that earned them candidate status and generally after about two years the candidate will be officially accredited. TallMagic 02:47, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems rather strange that Bill H dissappeared and a puppet, TallMagic, appeared from out of nowhere.
24.93.224.109 22:50, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

text: It seems rather strange to me how some people would rather post irrelevancies, make snide comments, and be insulting instead of trying to contribute something positive. I guess to-each-his-own? I invite you to open an account or logon if you already have an account and actually contribute to Wikipedia. I believe that you'll find it a more positive, rewarding, and satisfying experience.  TallMagic 23:19, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Recommend caution with your comments as they are likely a violation of WP:AGF and potentially a violation of WP:NPA.  Please keep in mind that Wikipedia is a team process and while you seem to be frustrated/bothered by anonymous comments, communication rules still apply for those who choose for whatever reason to remain anonymous. Let's make this a better wiki environment.   Rkowalke 02:18, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Cool your jets there, Rkowalke. Reading this exchange, it looks to me like 24.93.224.109 is the one who introduced the personal attack that TallMagic was replying to. Unless 24.93.224.109 is you, you need not respond defensively.--orlady 02:45, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't think my jets were hot Orlady; looks like you're being presumptuous.     Rkowalke 03:06, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unverified source stated some info on accreditation 

message: Orlady - you removed information from the academics section because you alleged the following:
Academics - simplified (eliminated counting of fields, which is essentially meaningless, and eliminated unnecessary & repetitive detail))
Soooooo naturally since you think the information I had in there was unnecessary it seems wise to take Wikipedia examples to learn from.
Mary Balwin College has the below in their Academics field, which I presume you will be editing out as well:
Undergraduate
Mary Baldwin's undergraduate program is known as the Residential College for Women, and offers 33 majors and 37 minors. Programs include:
African-American Studies 
Art and Art History 
Art 
Art Management 
Asian Studies 
Biochemistry 
Biology 
Business Administration 
Business Administration 
Marketing Communication 
Human Resource Management 
Chemistry 
Clinical Laboratory Science 
Communication 
Computer Information Systems 
Computer Science/Mathemathics 
Computer Information Systems 
Computer Science 
Economics 
Education 
English 
French 
History 
History 
Historic Preservation 
Leadership Studies 
Mathematics 
Mathematics 
Applied Mathematics 
Music 
Peacemaking and Conflict Resolution (beginning in 2006-07) 
Philosophy and Religion 
Philosophy 
Philosophy and Religion 
Ministry 
Religion 
Physical and Health Education 
Physics 
Political Science 
Political Science 
International Relations 
Psychology 
Public History 
Sociology / Social Work 
Human Services 
Sociology / Social Work 
Sociology 
Spanish 
Spanish 
Latin American Studies 
Theatre 
Women's Studies 
Wooooo hoooo that sure beat out my small entry for WNU that you removed, which was:
Warren National University offers 18 academic degree programs. Its degree programs are grouped within its three primary schools: School of Business, School of Technology, and the School of Health Administration. Also available is the Department of General Education. The School of Business offers Bachelor degrees in six concentrations; Master degrees in five concentrations, and a Doctorate in Business Administration. The School of Technology offers Bachelor and Master degrees in two concentrations. The School of Health Administration offers Bachelor and Master degrees in one concentration, that of Health Administration.Warren National University Areas of Study 
Well let's continue on with more examples because one is simply not enough.
University of Mary Washington Academics section has the following:
Academic departments at the undergraduate campus of UMW include:
Art and Art History 
Biological Sciences 
Business Administration 
Chemistry 
Classics, Philosophy, and Religion 
Computer Science 
Economics 
English, Linguistics, and Speech 
Education 
Geography 
Earth and Environmental Sciences 
Health and Physical Education 
Historic Preservation 
History and American Studies 
Mathematics 
Modern Foreign Languages 
Music 
Physics 
Political Science and International Affairs 
Psychology 
Sociology and Anthropology 
Theatre and Dance 
Also, several new certificates have been added:
Business Language Certificate 
Middle East Studies Certificate 
Instructional Leadership Certificate 
Mary Washington prides itself on its Honor System, one of its proudest traditions. The system is run entirely by students and creates a sense of trust and mutual respect on the campus. All entering students must agree to abide by and support the Honor System.
Woooooo hoooooo - are we seeing a pattern here?
Eh, let's check out another higher education page.
University of Oregon has the following in their Academics section:
Colleges and Schools
The University of Oregon is organized into eight schools and colleges—six professional schools and colleges, an Arts and Sciences College and an Honors College. Full department listing: University of Oregon Department Index
[edit] School of Architecture and Allied Arts
The School of Architecture and Allied Arts (called "triple-A" or "AAA") was founded by Ellis F. Lawrence[2] in 1914. The school offers undergraduate and graduate degrees in Architecture, Art including Digital Arts, Arts and Administration, Art History, Historic Preservation, Interior Architecture, Landscape Architecture, and Planning, Public Policy and Management. A new undergraduate degree in Material and Product Studies will begin in fall 2008. The school also offers an architectural program in Portland, Oregon, for students with a four-year pre-professional degree in architecture. Undergraduates and beginning graduate students enrolled in architecture can transfer to Portland after fulfilling the department's core curriculum in Eugene. In fall 2008, students may enroll in a one-year B.F.A. program in Digital Arts or Product Design in Portland.
The school offers the only accredited degree in architecture, landscape architecture, and interior architecture in Oregon. Other nationally accredited degrees include the planning and public administration programs. The National Architectural Accrediting Board accredits both the undergraduate bachelor of architecture five-year degree and the master of architecture. The masters in architecture offers three options (Option I is offered to students already with an accredited architecture degree who wish to engage in advanced research study, Option II is offered to students with a four year pre-professional architecture degree, and Option III offered to students without any architecture degree). The department of art offers an array of fine arts including Digital Media, Ceramics, Fibers, Metals and Jewelry, Photography, Painting, and Sculpture. Selected works by students are frequently placed on display in Lawrence Hall's Laverne Krause Gallery.
[edit] College of Arts and Sciences
The College of Arts and Sciences (CAS) covers a large array of departments in the arts and sciences. The Creative Writing graduate program is nationally recognized as being amongst the best in the nation[3] - fewer than four percent are admitted out of 400 applicants each year.[4]
 
North facade of the Lillis Business Complex.
[edit] Charles H. Lundquist College of Business
The Charles H. Lundquist College of Business (LCB) was founded in 1884 and offers programs fields such as accounting, decision sciences, finance, management, and marketing. It is also home to the industry Warsaw Sports Marketing Center, the "premiere sports education and research program in the world."[5] The College is housed in the state-of-the-art Lillis Business Complex.
[edit] College of Education
The College of Education was established in 1896 as a branch of the Department of Philosophy and later merged with the Department of Science and Arts in 1900. It wasn't until 1910 that the School of Education was established as an independent college. In 1908, this college was accredited by the Northwest Association of Colleges and Secondary Schools.[6] According to the U.S. News & World Report 2006–7 edition of “America’s Best Graduate Schools,” the College of Education ranked 15th overall and eighth among public universities. For the seventh consecutive year, the UO special education program ranked third in the nation.
[edit] Robert D. Clark Honors College
Main article: Robert D. Clark Honors College
The Clark Honors College is a small college intended to complement the existing majors already in place at the university by joining select students and faculty for a low student to teacher ratio (25:1 maximum).[7] Admitted students in 2005 held a mean unweighted GPA of 3.93 and a mean SAT score of 1355 (out of 1600).[8]
[edit] School of Journalism and Communication
The School of Journalism and Communication (known as the "J-School") is one of the oldest Journalism schools in the United States,[9] beginning as a department in 1912 and later becoming a professional school 1916, receiving accreditation from the Association for Education in Journalism and Mass Communication.[10] It currently runs the Oregon Documentary Project and Flux magazine, a student-produced publication. Eight of the nine Pulitzer Prize winners from the University of Oregon graduated from the School of Journalism and Communication.[11] It also awards the annual Payne Award for Ethics in Journalism.
[edit] School of Law
Main article: University of Oregon School of Law
The School of Law was formed in 1884 in Portland and relocated to Eugene in 1915.[12] It was admitted into the Association of American Law Schools in 1919 and received accreditation from the American Bar Association in 1923.[13]
[edit] School of Music and Dance
The School of Music and Dance was initially just the Department of Music in 1886, and developed into the School of Music in 1900 It was admitted to the National Association of Schools of Music in 1928. The school offers over 20 ensembles in vocal and instrumental music, giving approximately 200 public performances a year.[14] Renamed in 2005, the MarAbel B. Frohnmayer Music Building is the physical home of the School, named after current University of Oregon President Frohnmayer's mother, a 1932 alumna of the School. [15]
Wow - what a writeup!
Well three is enough, you can continue research on your own.
And now you know why I reversed the edit you made.
Rkowalke 03:21, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Academics 

message: Hello orlady.
As I said before, I'm trying to bring this page into uniformity with other university wikipages.
Read here -->  Wikipedia:WikiProject Universities
I'll be making many more changes in the future, but for now, it would be nice to move beyond your problem with the word campus and start getting in line with wiki's desire for uniformity.
Structure
The article should start with a good introduction, giving the full complete official name of the college/university, detail about location (in suburb, downtown, where?), founder and founding name, and affiliation with any larger university system, if applicable. Give other names for which the university may be known (e.g. Cal, and bold them, too). Also, add a few facts about the college/university that make it unique.
Next, there is a table about the college/university. A template for the table can be found at the bottom of this page.
Sections of the article should follow the general format below, which may be expanded depending on need. 
Remember what it just said about general format, which may be expanded depending on need, but not name changed depending on orlady's wants.
For example:
History -- Describe the history of the college/university, including noteworthy milestones in its development. 
Campus -- Describe the overall shape and size of the campus. Mention any famous buildings and their architects. This section could be expanded to include satellite campuses: 
Organization -- Mention the administration, including leading officials. If this college/university has a special organizational structure, such as a residential college system, then it should be mentioned here. Then, in bullet point form, list the schools, colleges, etc. of this university. If appropriate, also list the faculties and departments at the university. If there is a special course system or requisites for enrollment, mention them here, too. If the university is part of a larger system (as in University of California), mention this connection and provide requisite links. 
Students and faculty or Students and staff -- State the number (and any other useful statistics) of the students. Distinguish between undergraduate, graduate and postgraduate students; also state the number of academic staff. Distinguish between tenure/nontenured, full- and part-time (if possible). Note that the use of "faculty" for academic staff is a North American usage and can be very confusing for other parts of the world where "faculty" is only used to refer to a grouping of departments, e.g. a "Faculty of Humanities". 
Sports, clubs, and traditions -- Mention the sports team(s) of the college/university and what is notable about them. Here is also a good place to mention specific traditions of the college/university, like students' union activities, a student newspaper, fraternities, regular activities, etc. The heading may be changed accordingly in regard to the importance of sports, clubs, traditions, students' unions etc. For example, alternative headings could be Students' Union, Sports and Traditions or Students' Union Activities. 
Noted alumni -- Bullet list of Alumni that are notable/famous. Mention the graduation date and degree and give a short description why they are famous. 
Noted academic staff or Noted faculty -- Bullet list of active and former members of staff that are notable. If they are alumni/alumnae, mention them here in parenthesis, including the degree and graduation date. For all give a short description why they are famous. 
External links -- Give a link to the website of the college/university, preferable in the English language.  
--Rkowalke 20:29, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Campus, Location, Site, etc... 

message: By no means am I trying to mandate the format for this talk page, but perhaps it will serve you and the article better to post proposals for specific changes here and a short description of your reasoning.
For instance: 
A proposal to restore the comprehensive list of degree/concentration offerings.
:Common to other articles. While other article content doesn't demand or exclude content from this article, inclusion of information does not really harm the article. It also presents an opportunity for compromise.
A proposal to include additional background information, e.g. founders, mission, current operators, current enrollment, prominent graduates etc.
:The article as written lends significant weight to controversies and criticism but lacks comprehensive information about the institution itself, assuming such information is available.
Avruch 03:53, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There's plenty of info that could be in the article if sources could be found. For example, one seemingly simple, but elusive fact I'd like to see in the article is the date when the school changed its name. This East Stroudsburg University press release tells about a faculty member at ESU receiving a PhD from Kennedy-Western in August 2006. Was that before the name change, or was the press release out of date? Where is the name change documented? --Orlady 05:55, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Rkowalke 11:18, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

text: I agree as well. Avruch, when the article lock has expired I propose that either yourself or another neutral party edit the article to conform with WP:UNI format. Piercetp 04:36, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Rkowalke's statenent as well Piercetp's that Avruch, or another neutral party, should edit the article to insure its comformance with the WP:UNI format. Taylor W. 13:58, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm not an expert with the subject, but I'm happy to assist with the evaluation of specific sections and language for inclusion. Avruch 14:58, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposals for Specific Changes & Discussion