Talk:Fourth Crusade

message: The Venetians had a thriving trade with the Moslems, especially Egypt. It seems highly unlikely that they would transport a crusading army to attack their best customer.
With their wide spread trading connections, the Venetians must have been perfectly well aware that the Crusaders had grossly overestimated the number of soldiers expected to turn up for the crusade.
The Venetians must also have carefully engineered the crusaders getting into a vast debt over the shipping contract with the intention of diverting the crusade away from Egypt or the Middle East. The attack on Zara may have been preplanned as these were considerable trading rivals of the Venetians.
There wasn't much loot from Zara and the interest on the debt still mounting so the idea of some sort of extortion from the Emperor of Constantinople must have grown, after all he was a "Greek Christian" and not a "real Christian".
Whatever the original feelings of the Crusaders when they reached Constinople, the degree of Greek contempt for the Crusaders eroded any feelings of reverence and ended with the city being burned and sacked. 
The Venetians probably couldn't beleive their luck as not only did they get their debt money repaid from the loot but also a great proportion of the artistic loot. Possibly best of all from their point of view was that Constantinople was almost eliminated their greatest trading rival. 
The late Ernle Bradford in his book "The Great Betrayal" offers this very real interpretation of the 1204 political scene and the Fourth Crusade generally and is well worth reading.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.93.199.154 (talk) 09:46, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I have known about the "diversion" of the Crusaders for some time, but this is the first time that I learned why the Venetians diverted the Crusaders, who, themselves, had no axe to grind with Constantinople at the time. Student7 (talk) 20:39, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Venetians and Moslems 

message: Please remove Otto IV. from this list due to following reasons:
Otto became emperor in 1209, years after this crusade.
From 1198 to 1208 there was a "civil war" in the Holy Roman Empire between Philipp of Swabia (brother of emperor Henry VI.) and Otto IV. of Brunswick, who both were elected Kings. For the biggest part of this ten years, Philipp was the more powerful and dominant contestor. Indeed Otto was only able to becom undisputed King after Philipp was assasinated in June 1208.
Otto IV. is mentioned nowhere in the text of this article, obviously he has not played a role in this crusade (which he hadn't indeed), so neither should he be mentioned as leader of this crusade.
87.178.36.189 (talk) 17:43, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed Otto IV as, like you said, he's not mentioned here, nor is Constantinople mentioned on his page.  Just a note, you cold have removed this yourself.  Thanks for the heads up - take care.. Dinkytown talk 17:53, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Commanders and leaders: Otto IV.

message: The invisible text warning that it was not a typo was just removed and Paris was inserted; I've reverted it, but I also noted that Martin the same Martin of Pairis Abbey and no page exists for Bishop Martin.I'm putting it as 'Bishop Martin of Pairis, of Pairis Abbey' to clear it up the confusion and hopefully put another reason why it is not a typo for future editors. Even a minor mistake like this completely changes the context and identification of Bishop Martin. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 19:58, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: @seylarin​ 103.214.150.75 (talk) 16:20, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bishop Martin of Pairis not Paris 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Fourth Crusade. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071009183904/http://incommunion.org/articles/issue-33/news-issue-33 to http://www.incommunion.org/articles/issue-33/news-issue-33
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070927230527/http://www.shsu.edu/~his_ncp/1204.html to http://www.shsu.edu/~his_ncp/1204.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 00:20, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: 11/04/18 6:28am
In the 'Sacking of Constantinople' section it says that 900,000 silver coins were taken and distributed to various people but in the breakdown it only adds up to 800,000 (if my maths is right). So potentially either the 900,000 number, the other numbers, or I am incorrect.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ailsa99 (talk • contribs) 05:31, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Money taken after the sacking of Constantinople 

message: The lead and text of the article disagree on what the original intent of the Fourth Crusade was (probably because there's disagreement among the sources.)  The second sentence lead says, as if it's undisputed fact, that   However, the Legacy section says that , implying that traditional scholarship holds that attacking Constantinople was always the actual aim.  The historical section complicates this by listing the series of events that led to the sack of Constantinople and describing the motivations of everyone involved but carefully not saying, specifically, what the original aim was (and especially not delving into the motivations and goals of the Venetians, who traditional scholarship generally argues always intended to steer the Crusades against Byzantium); the closest we get .  Notably, the cite for that (a Brittanica article) was written by Thomas F. Madden, who describes his own position as revisionist. --Aquillion (talk) 18:03, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps the Legacy section should be reworded. What is called "The traditional position" seems in earnest to be "the traditional Byzantine historians" position. The debate about the reasons for the diversion of the crusade to Constantinople is ancient (since the 19th c., cf "A Century of Controversy on the Fourth Crusade" cited in the article), Queller and Madden didn't came out of the blue to challenge an established historical position. The historical source for Egypt as the primary target is Villehardouin's work, so it depends on the trust (or direct knowledge) modern authors have for him, Byzantine historians tend to rely more on Nicetas' analysis.--Phso2 (talk) 19:07, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, the page should probably go into a lot more detail on historical perspectives on the Fourth Crusade and how they developed over time. --Aquillion (talk) 16:05, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Original intent of the Fourth Crusade? 

message: Walter III of Brienne joined the Fourth Crusade when it was initially declared, but he launched an invasion of the Kingdom of Sicily with the intention of sailing to Syria after he took control. This campaign is not mentioned once throughout the whole article and I think it should at least be mentioned. I think it might even be enough to include the Kingdom of Sicily in the info box as a belligerent against the Crusaders. What do you think? Lyricus the Lame (talk) 01:24, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes on mention, no on infobox. It could get a whole section or even a whole subarticle, but putting Sicily as an opponent of the crusade in the box is not informative on its own. Srnec (talk) 05:10, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Walter III of Brienne's invasion of the Kingdom of Sicily. 

message: — Assignment last updated by MaxLapides (talk) 06:52, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: The Middle Ages

message: The Cumans article contains the following statement:
:The Cumans also played a prominent role in the Fourth Crusade
As such, shouldn't the Cumans be mentioned in this article, if only briefly? 76.190.213.189 (talk) 00:00, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  To add to article