Talk:Islam in Australia

message: I have copy edited the section on contributions to Australian life to neutralise the POV.  There were a number of repetative statements which I condensed to one. Opening statement of the section referred to there being no recognition of contributions,  The Ghan rail service from Adeladie to Darwin is name in honour of the Afghan cameleers.
 Australian Muslims have asserted their desire to be treated equally and to be free from negative stereotypes. a direct quote from the article to be free from negative stereotypes also requires that negative stereotypes aren't being promoted as was the case in this section. Gnangarra 04:12, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV 

message: After a mention on WP:AWNB, I came to look at this article. I've cleaned up a bit of the history section, but the article needs some major work. My thoughts are:
*Why have the "Personalities" section at all?
* The descriptions of where Muslims live needs to be well-referenced if it is to look like anything other than POV (with a negative tone). The places don't match the schools list further down, either
* This article suggests that all Muslims in Australia are immigrants. I doubt that is true.
* The article does not mention denominations. Does Islam in Australia have denominations (if this is the wrong word, please correct me)? Do they correspond to Islamic denominations elsewhere?
--Scott Davis Talk 06:25, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments on the article as it stands (Tuesday 7 March)

message: I just reverted an external link added which was to the Queensland Muslime Times - no context given for the link--A  Y  Arktos 00:32, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  qmt.org 

message: If this section stays, some people need more context - Mamdouh Habib & David Hicks being cases in point - Australians being subject to extraordinary rendition, torture, imprisonment for an extended period at Guantanamo Bay and put before military commissions are as noteworthy as being suspected terrorists. Paul foord 01:11, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Personalities 

message: The "Unrest" section appears to equate Muslim with Arab/Pakistani/Lebanese. There are no references, which might be reasonable given the links to specific event articles, however, of those three events, Ashfield gang rapes does not mention Muslim/Islam at all, 2005 Cronulla riots says it was ethnically motivated, not religious, and Sydney gang rapes has a big  at the top, but presently also says racially motivated, not religious. The examples are all confined to inner southwestern Sydney suburbs, which is not necessarily a representative sample of Australia as a whole. --Scott Davis Talk 06:45, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Second all of the above. In parts of Perth, Canberra and other cities with sizeable Muslim populations there is pretty much no trouble at all between Muslim and non-Muslim populations. Orderinchaos78 14:21, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've written a new section, but don't have time to find references at the moment. I'll try later if noone else gets in first. --Scott Davis Talk 09:41, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have written three paragraphs for Unrest.  I have tried to adopt a NPOV, by presenting the a summary of the arguments people have about unrest in the Australian community.  It is not my intention to pass judgement on them, and I hope this is reflected in my writing and I remain faithful to the main points people express.  Extreme viewpoints (eg: "Australians viscerally hate Muslims"; or, "Muslims marry their cousins and therefore have low IQs") are out.  These are not my arguments, but I leave open the idea that it is a mixture of different causes that have come into being.  Kransky 15:47, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks - your words are better than mine, but still need the references. I renamed it "Unrest in Sydney" as that seems to be the limit of the unrest discussed. For "Some commentators" etc, an opinion piece from the SMH or similar is probably the right sort of thing. --Scott Davis Talk 23:24, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unrest POV 

message: The history section of the article is copied straight out from http://www.amf.net.au/PDF/religionCulturalDiversity/Resource_Manual.pdf —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.217.211.230 (talk • contribs)   moved to a new section unsigned added by Gnangarra 09:18, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Very similar to the article though not exactly the same, comparing the style of writing this is appears to be the main source used for writing most of this article. Please specify page numbers of the document for where this was copied "straight out of". Gnangarra 09:32, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Copyrighted information

message: Just provided some basic further reading links 159.134.51.149 00:12, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Link for Islamic history in Australia Bilal Cleland, Islamic Council of Victoria MUSLIMS IN AUSTRALIA: A Brief History retrieved 2007-02-01 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by SmithBlue (talk • contribs) 15:30, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Further Reading 

message: Speaking of the White Australia Policy, were the Bosnian Muslim immigrants allowed to enter Australia during that priod? Many of them also look Nordic since with their blond hair and blue eyes. --Fantastic4boy 04:58, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Bosnian Muslim immigrants during White Australia Policy

message: Hello eveybody, I updated the figures as the 2006 Census Religoius Affiliation Tables have been released on ABS website on  27th of June, 2007. Can anybody updated the links? Thanks.
Cube 206.182.211.178 10:27, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: I updated Statistics with 2006 Census results, need links

message: I've removed this:
The history of Muslims in Australia dates back to the 17th century, well before European contact with the mainland. It is believed Macassan traders from Indonesia had a harmonious relationship with the Indigenous people of northern Australia. 
An alternative explanation is that Macassan trepangers from the southwest corner of Sulawesi (formerly Cele bes) visited the coast of northern Australia for hundreds of years to fish for trepang (also known as sea cucumber or "sandfish"), a marine invertebrate prized for its culinary and medicinal values in Chinese markets. 
During the voyages the Macassan's left their mark on the people of northern Australia — in language, art, economy and even genetics in the descendants of both Macassan and Indigenous Australian ancestors that are now found on both sides of the Arafura and Banda Seas.
As I've tried to find something that supports this and haven't had much luck, other than an ABC summary of islam that may well be lifting content off wikipedia.
Anyone got anything to back this up or is this just fanciful "make the history richer" FUD? NathanLee (talk) 01:51, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: An ongoing relationship between peoples of Sulawesi and Arnhem land was noted by Donald Thompson, and other anthropologists have stated this was probably established before european settlement - the simplest explanation for the available evidence the extract outlines. The trepangers would reside in Australia for a season, in a place remote from indigenous activities, and presumably maintained their religious practices. Reliable sources regard this as probable, but I'm not sure it should be included in this article. Are the nominally christian europeans who 'discovered' Australia an example of Christianity in Australia. cygnis insignis 05:23, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  If there's decent references that talk in anything approaching more likely than not: then perhaps it needs to go in. We could have "blue eyed people in Australia" too. At the end of the day it had zero impact on the local religions. As for Christianity in Australia, well from books I've read the minister had to pay for the church out of his own pocket it received so little priority from the colony's leadership. But still, that was a bit more of what I would call "establishing" a religion rather than passing, non permanent influence. NathanLee (talk) 01:57, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

text: Please do not revert valid sections of articles SatuSuro 02:12, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  pre-european settlement section 

message: A new approach. I’ve removed the two separate “contributions” and “criticisms/problems” sub-headings – if one is POV, then so is the other. These are now one section that I’ve entitled “Muslims in contemporary Australian society” (and I've added a small sub-section heading for the historical stuff) – I’m open to suggests for improvement. Ie, my new heading is a bit long, but I think it gets the point across, without containing POV-loaded terms either way. Also, a section for positives and one for negatives is also sloppy and POV. Note, that my heading implies a distinction that Nathan raised between Islam as a religion and Muslims - at least it doesn't imply they are one in the same. Also, I’d suggest removal of the term “Muslim community”. They are not unified anymore than, say, the “Christian community”. Simply “Muslims” or “Muslims in Australia” is fine in my opinion.
I hope people don’t mind me being bold, but maybe this is a good way to short-circuit the issues over the last few days. Any thoughts? 
Further, I still think the whole section needs a cleanup – it’s not quite yet a laundry list of criticism and positives added in to achieve “balance”, but it’s close. 
--Merbabu (talk) 00:07, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree it's a vast improvement.--Lester 00:18, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: A new approach...

message: Bit repetitive in relation to say Afghan (Australia) topic. Clean up required became apparent when fixing wikilinks. I will do when I get a chance but if somebody else jumps in - that is fine with me. --Matilda talk 00:05, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  History section 

message: I have removed the reference to the Marree mosque being built in 1861, even though this information is on the Australian government DFAT website http://www.dfat.gov.au/facts/muslims_in_australia.html. In 1861 there was no European settlement here, John McDouall Stuart had not yet reached the north coast and the telegraph wasn't constructed untill 1870. Other than three Mulim cameleers attached to the Burke and Wills expedition there were no other Muslim cameleers (or camels) in Australia in 1861. The first arrival of Muslim camel drivers in South Australia was in 1866 when 31 men arrived with camels for Thomas Elder's Umberatana Station. Marree wasn't settled untill 1883 (although there was a camp at Herrgott Springs during the construction of the OTL in 1870-2).  Rocketfrog 01:41, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Marree mosque 

message: I have changed the first sentence under the subheading “19th Century”. Between 1860 and the 1890s many Middle Eastern people came to Australia to work as "Afghan" camel drivers.
As referenced in the page entitled “Afghan (Australia)”, no Middle Eastern state is mentioned in the listed countries. While called Afghans, not all of them were from Afghanistan. "Many were from Balochistan, Kashmir, Sind or the Punjab, which at the time were part of the British Empire and therefore under British colonial rule.” Central Asia is the correct geographical location and Middle Eastern people is an incorrect reference to people from predominately Indian and Indo-Aryan backgrounds. Delly54 (talk) 11:27, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Middle Eastern/Central Asian 

message: I've just removed the "Influence of Islamic preachers" section. This appears to have been an attempt to imply that all Muslim religious leaders say horrible things, illustrated by some examples. The title and lead-in paras were particularly clunky: I don't think that there's such a position as 'preachers'. The content is largely "worst-of" type material rather than an attempt at an assessment of the influence of Islamic religious leaders and the kinds of views they put forward (noting that Islam is a pretty decentralised religion), and the section was hopelessly biased as a result. Some of this material might be usable, but only when placed in context (and preferably discussing broad issues rather than individual incidents given the size and longevity of the Australian Islamic community). Nick-D (talk) 07:32, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: There's no need to gain consensus before doing something like this - WP:BRD applies, though of course (and it's why I started this discussion). Nick-D (talk) 06:27, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see SYNTH or OR here on the part of WP (not even "synthesis by juxtaposition", but I've admittedly had trouble recognizing that beast in the past). It seems to me that if there is synth going on, it occurs inside of the cited secondary sources. When the section says, "In some instances various ideas and viewpoints espoused by these preachers have been subject of public or internal debate.", though, I don't see any support for the implication there that there is a public POV supporting  Taj El-Din Hilaly, Feiz Mohammed, Samir Abu Hamza and suchlike. Wtmitchell  (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 07:20, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point. The section is headed Influence of Islamic preachers, but it doesn't seem to say much about what influence these Islamic preachers have had or where that influence has been apparent. It seems to imply by weight of the examples reported about negative reaction from inside the Islamic community that the influence has been slight. Wtmitchell  (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 07:20, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: that is what makes it WP:SNYTH the taking of unrelated topics to draw a conclusion that isnt covered by the sources. I have no issue with covering the topic even though we dont see it covered for other religions but it needs to be based on published reliable sources. Gnangarra 09:22, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Influence of Islamic preachers section 

message: Firstly, I added league to Hazem El-Masri so it now describes him as a rugby league player. In NSW and Qld there is a difference! 
Secondly is it correct to still list David Hicks as a Muslim-Australian? I thought he stopped being an adherent in Cuba. Tigerman2005 (talk) 04:14, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: rugby league and rugby union are different sports. Writing rugby on its own (at least in Australia) implies rugby union. El-Masri was a very well known league player. Not sure if he ever played union. Tigerman2005 (talk) 03:29, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

text: Hicks (AKA Muhammed Dawood) is a notable Australian whose notability arises from his actions while he was a Muslim and from the consequences of those actions. I think that his absence from the list of "Notable Australian Muslims" in the article is likely to result in repeated questioning about why he is not mentioned. Better, I think, to mention him and to note that he has said that his youthful conversion to Islam was impulsive and that he has since renounced his Islamic faith (details and sources in the David Hicks article. It's not a big deal to me, though. Wtmitchell  (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 00:35, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  Fair enough. I guess it just depends on whether the list is intended to represent current Muslims. Your approach seems to make sense to me though. Tigerman2005 (talk) 03:29, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hazem El-Masri and David Hicks 

message: I've just re-removed the material about Peter Costello saying that " Muslim leaders need to condemn terrorism "unequivocally"" in 2006. I really don't see the relevance of this - it's an example of WP:NOTNEWS material this article should be avoiding, especially as Costello didn't have responsibility for the issue in his portfolio or any particular expertise on the matter. There's a broader issue here of the kind of comments which have been made and the responses they received which is probably worth including in the article, but covering this on a comment-by-comment basis seems over the top and unnecessary. Nick-D (talk) 09:34, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Peter Costello material 

message: I propose to merge the contents of the Islam in Norfolk Island article into this article. There simply isn't enough to say about Islam on Norfolk Island for a full-blown article; I doubt the article would ever be able to be expanded beyond one or two paragraphs. — This, that and the other (talk) 10:52, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed merge with [[Islam in Norfolk Island]] 

message: There's something wrong with this addition] to the article. I says there are eight women on the "full list of Aussie jihadis". The ref says 53 men, 8 women (total 61) - but the actual list of names at the end of the article only has 44 entries on it. So the context of "8 women" does not appear to be the same as the "full list" of 44 people. Some clarification may be required. Mitch Ames (talk) 05:53, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  8 women on the full list 

message: Just did a serious revamp of the article as it was in a seriously bad state with regards to WP:WEIGHT and WP:RS. DailyMail, Breitbart, opinion pieces galore. Lots of little obscure news pieces cluttering what is supposed to be an encyclopaedic article. Also had to remove a lot of stuff added recently as it was basically copied and pasted straight from the sources. There are still a lot of them left, I'm sure, but I got rid of the ones I found along the way. If a piece is to be reinserted, please check it against the source and rephrase appropriately. Havi4 (talk) 18:39, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed some copyvios 

message: I've just removed this section as it was a real mess. The "within Islam" sub-section was highly dubious given that its referring to disagreements between individuals and organisations, and not Muslims criticising their own religion. The "From outside Islam" was a cherry-picked collection of recent and fairly random comments from individuals, most of whom seemed to  not actually be "criticising" Islam per-se, but expressing views on the current state of the religious community. Similar stuff is scattered through the article as well. Nick-D (talk) 07:37, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism of Islam section 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Islam in Australia. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Attempted to fix sourcing for http://www.theglobalmail.org/feature/syrias-civil-war-spills-over-in-sydney/450
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20140603101622/http://www.jamiat.org.au:80/category/fatwa/ to http://www.jamiat.org.au/category/fatwa/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20061031040755/http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au:80/story/0,20867,20360329-32522,00.html to http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20360329-32522,00.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20130425114606/http://www.minister.immi.gov.au/media/media-releases/2009/ce09090.htm to http://www.minister.immi.gov.au/media/media-releases/2009/ce09090.htm
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 05:14, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Islam in Australia. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.immi.gov.au/gateways/police/resources/_pdf/building_bridges.pdf
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 01:33, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Islam in Australia. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120415153222/https://www.griffith.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/58309/Ganter.pdf to http://www.griffith.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/58309/Ganter.pdf
*Added archive http://www.webcitation.org/60Y6l9wcB?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.saudiaramcoworld.com%2Fissue%2F198801%2Fcamels.down.under.htm to http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/198801/camels.down.under.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141204204412/http://books.google.com.au/books?id=9c_lgz1lXsQC to http://www.books.google.com.au/books?id=9c_lgz1lXsQC
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20021013221729/http://www.icv.org.au/history.shtml to http://www.icv.org.au/history.shtml
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 00:38, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 7 external links on Islam in Australia. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added  tag to http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8534089/govt-hopes-no-islamic-protest-in-melbourne
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20151201103453/http://www.skynews.com.au/news/politics/national/2015/12/01/no-halal-link-to-terror--senate-committee.html to http://www.skynews.com.au/news/politics/national/2015/12/01/no-halal-link-to-terror--senate-committee.html
*Added  tag to https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/26386528/islamic-state-perth-university-student-muhammed-sheglabo-joins-fighters-in-middle-east/
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0%2C20867%2C20360329-32522%2C00.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080302025448/http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs%40.nsf/Latestproducts/3416.0Main%20Features22007?opendocument&tabname=Summary&prodno=3416.0&issue=2007&num=&view= to http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs%40.nsf/Latestproducts/3416.0Main%20Features22007?opendocument&tabname=Summary&prodno=3416.0&issue=2007&num=&view=
*Added  tag to http://islamicsydney.com/story.php?id=826%2F
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080112003201/http://news.independent.co.uk/world/australasia/article120696.ece to http://news.independent.co.uk/world/australasia/article120696.ece
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090913073500/http://uncommonlives.naa.gov.au/life.asp?lID=9 to http://uncommonlives.naa.gov.au/life.asp?lID=9
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090403015155/http://www.afic.com.au/index1.htm to http://www.afic.com.au/index1.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090913073500/http://uncommonlives.naa.gov.au/life.asp?lID=9 to http://uncommonlives.naa.gov.au/life.asp?lID=9
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 08:41, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Islam in Australia. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/198801/camels.down.under.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070831082732/http://www.roninfilms.com.au/feature/2438059845.html to http://www.roninfilms.com.au/feature/2438059845.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 13:46, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 7 external links on Islam in Australia. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20170710020910/http://abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/by%20Subject/2071.0~2016~Main%20Features~Religion%20Data%20Summary~25 to http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/by%20Subject/2071.0~2016~Main%20Features~Religion%20Data%20Summary~25
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150402152836/http://booksc.org/book/15308586 to http://booksc.org/book/15308586
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110723042720/http://www.info.gov.nf/reports/Reports/Census_2006.pdf to http://www.info.gov.nf/reports/reports/census_2006.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110227081046/http://uncommonlives.naa.gov.au/muslim-journeys/arrivals/lebanese.aspx to http://uncommonlives.naa.gov.au/muslim-journeys/arrivals/lebanese.aspx
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150330161535/http://darulfatwa.org.au/en/Table/Fiqh-Jurisprudence/ to http://www.darulfatwa.org.au/en/Table/Fiqh-Jurisprudence/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120718071953/http://archive.hizb-australia.org/hizbut-tahrir/about-hizb-ut-tahrir to http://archive.hizb-australia.org/hizbut-tahrir/about-hizb-ut-tahrir
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131029191913/http://www.omi.wa.gov.au/resources/clearinghouse/Ethnic_Minorities_and_Crime.pdf to http://www.omi.wa.gov.au/resources/clearinghouse/Ethnic_Minorities_and_Crime.pdf
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 07:32, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Islam is not the second highest religion in Australia. Next time try using actual facts from the abs website instead of making up random bs. Loser 49.183.158.189 (talk) 23:24, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  This information is incorrect