Talk:Freemartin

message: wrt the difference between non-freemartin females and freemartins: the former are decanted with fertile ovaries.
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The ovaries of freemartins are functional. It's their behavior that is different. P0M 04:04, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the Brave New World sense should either have its own article (though it would be short...), or mentioned in this one.  It's often the only meaning people know (or need to know) if they are not involved with agriculture.--Richard New Forest (talk) 17:15, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: ''Brave New World'' freemartins

message: I'm confused by the statement "Up to 95% of the freemartin's blood cells can be derived from those of its twin brother". At birth? Throughout its life? Aren't new blood cells generated from bones/bone-marrow? Or just red blood cells. Please clarify. Thanks! 203.147.0.44 02:18, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you very much. It looks like your publication will answer the request that the article provide adequate references to prove its assertions. I wrote or checked much of the article, but I did it on the basis of materials present in studies of human sexuality. I do not have a collection of veterinary medicine books. If you can provide a locus classicus for the basic facts of the matter, that information would be very helpful too. P0M 15:55, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Chimery

message: Hi, 
This article seems to imply that only freemartin female cows will mount other cows in estrus. I grew up on a dairy farm, and I can attest to the fact that many cows that are not freemartins will mount cows when they are in heat. It would be a waste of money to keep a freemartin around solely for this purpose. They don't produce much milk, so most dairy farmers don't keep them in their herds.
--Yenshee  3 September 2006
:But do other cows do this reliably, like a freemartin does ?  Modern farmers don't need freemartins because medical tests are available to identify which cow is in estrus. StuRat 09:57, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It would also make a difference whether normal cows mounted only estrus cows or mounted anything in sight that was of the right size and shape. I think farmers must have had a reason for selecting freemartins to detect the cows ready for breeding, especially if the farmer wanted to make sure which bull mated with which cow. P0M 06:33, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I keep cattle too...  Bulling (oestrus) cows and heifers mount or are mounted by other females anyway, and this is enough to show most bullings, though sometimes it can be tricky to tell which of a mounting pair is bulling.  Steers (castrated males) are a bit more reliable, as you can be certain which is the bulling animal (steers don't actually "do" anything, just mount, as males need the bull hormones to make their equipment extend properly).  However, I can't believe that a freemartin would do any better than a steer.  It is true that some bulling females (usually older, more dominant ones) will not show themselves unless confronted with a fully fertile bull – but that rather defeats the object...  Surely people in the past just used freemartins like steers, for beef (as I still do today...), or for draught.  I'd like to see a ref for this claim.  --Richard New Forest (talk) 17:15, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Detection of oestrus

message: The use as a sterile genetic "sport" in humans is not limited to Huxley - another 1930s (1970 -see below) science fiction story, an obscure one called something like "Ginny Clothed with the Sun", refers to freemartins of a prehistoric human race. Vultur 03:44, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Let us know if you can find the author and the exact title, etc.  The biological process through which human females can become brain-masculinized is known. It is not the same as for cows. Two embryos in a cow's womb can share a blood supply in a way that human embryos can't. Typically a human female is brain-masculinized when the mother is suffering from a cancer or some other condition that ups her production of androgen during a crucial period in brain formation. That kind of thing is much more rare than situations in which a male and a female bovine embryo share the same uterus.  So the science fiction story may be a little light on the science side unless the author imagined a possible way for female human embryos to be masculinized on a regular basis.  Maybe he imagined some kind of injections for the mother?  P0M 06:33, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Other human "freemartins"

message: Is freemartins' meat good for consumption by humans?--87.241.218.17 (talk) 05:43, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Freemartins develop physically like castrated males, and are used for beef in the same way.  I doubt freemartin beef could be distinguished except by chromosome analysis.  Heifer (young fertile female) beef is pretty similar to steer beef, but relatively little prime beef is female because many heifers are kept to become cows for milk or breeding.  Young bulls are also used for beef – this is much leaner than steer or heifer beef.  Older bulls and cows are eaten too, when no longer useful for breeding or milk, and so they are tougher and more strongly flavoured (used for pies etc).  Overall, age is more important than sex – most intensive beef animals are killed at 18 or 20 months, long before they are mature (hardly more than veal), and they're only hung for a week or so.  You should taste our 30 month beef, hung for four weeks – I'm looking forward to a steer we're doing this autumn who'll be well over 40 months.  --Richard New Forest (talk) 17:15, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Cool. Thanks very much for this explanation.--Samnikal (talk) 07:32, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  As food? 

message: What is the etymology of “freemartin”? The article should say.--Solomonfromfinland (talk) 05:15, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etym 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Should reference to other animals be in the lead paragraph ?  Unless it is very much more common in cows I would think this is obvious.
IceDragon64 (talk) 12:11, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Apparently, it is indeed "very much more common in cows", yes. DS (talk) 00:02, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other animals in lead paragraph ?