Talk:Lolicon/Archive 4

message: Please state which you prefer
#Support - prefer inline, otherwise remove if it violates fair use- Johntex\talk 20:39, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Inline (place on Wikipedia behind one single click) alongside new image, or replace with new image 

message: WHY is the option of hiding the image allowed in the poll above when it was 'already' covered by a previous poll?  Why isn't the past poll honored? --Jqiz 21:34, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know the details about the past poll because it occurred before I came across the page.  From what I have read, it seems there was no consensus either way, and a small minority preferred showing the image with no inlining. Johntex\talk 21:37, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The last poll didn't show a consensus. -Will Beback 21:38, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Yes, and no consensus was reached.  However, lumping the inlining issue to gain support.....and also, we have to pick a position!?  The poll is quite biased enough as it is.  3 out of the 4 options are pro-censorship in some ways.  We have to pick a 'preferred' position as well, and it seems if we don't, it's defaulted to the bottom?  What the hell is up?  I do want the issue to be over with, but the poll is very biased toward the image in so many ways.  --Jqiz 21:47, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sorry you think there is a problem with it.  I only put the "please add your prefered position" part in to try to learn more about people's views.  It is  a good  thing, I think, to encourage discussion vs straight yes-no votes wherever possible. I certainly wouldn't want to assume that the default position is top or bottom or anywhere else. Johntex\talk 21:52, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And if they do not pick a position, the vote does not count?  Do you see where the problem is with the poll?  If anything, the default position should be on top.  Evens out the biasedness of the poll --Jqiz 21:54, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have faith that anyone that shows up to look at the poll will spend the time to explain their vote throughly, such that we can understand their position completly. Order is an irrelevency. Let's see what people who actually care about policy and/or this article say, and go from there. Hipocrite - «Talk» 21:56, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

text: If they do not pick a position then we know they want to show the image, but we don't know where.  We may have to do further work.  I have no problem with "Top of article" being the first listed choice. Johntex\talk 21:58, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Because no one (except Hipocrite) is arguing that :Image:Kotori-Kan_Vol_2.jpg should be removed.  It is not the controversial one. Johntex\talk 22:35, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Lets cut chase.  Will we be back at the poll booth to decide WHICH of the two images will be used in the future since we're allowed to use only one image?  This picture should not have to go through double hurdles to get approved. --Jqiz 22:39, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My understanding (perhaps faulty) was that we wanted :Image:Kotori-Kan_Vol_2.jpg to stay, and that we needed what to do about :Image:Hikari_Hayashibara_Manga.jpg.  I was trying to keep this simple, but I don't think I succeeded in that. If there is a camp of people that say we can't have two images, then this poll will not resolve that question. But, if it is a question of fair use, then consensus doesn't trump the law anyway. Johntex\talk 22:44, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Then this poll is meaningless as both options, other than removal, violates fair use.  There's no point in this poll other than removal.  Rescinding my vote.  You're just creating an unnecessary hurdle for this picture to get approve.  Not wasting my time. --Jqiz 22:48, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Problem with poll above

message: This is the most ill-defined poll I have ever seen. Not only are the descriptions of what you're voting on unhelpful and inadequate, but they keep changing. It seems there are at least 3 different issues conflated here (assuming we are actually discussing just one of the images): Is the image appropriate to use in the article at all; if so, where should the image be placed in the article; and should the image be linked to behind a disclaimer or displayed within the article itself? Kaldari 22:41, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Support scrapping poll, it makes this read too much like censorship when we're really talking about what placement of images is the most courteous to readers. Ashibaka tock 22:46, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Agreed.  The poll should have been kept simple on which image should be used and get over with it, sheesh. --Jqiz 22:51, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sorry Kaldari, for the confusion.  It was probably too much to try to learn with one straw poll.  I don't know if stopping the poll is legitimate or not.  Let's see what other opinions are. Johntex\talk 22:49, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Since this is a complicated issue, I think we should do something more generic as a poll. Actually, let's try this now. Ashibaka tock 22:55, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

text: It can't be that simple though.  My main request is a poll on inlining. Johntex\talk 00:23, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Including the image inline is what happens by default.  If you mean hiding it behind the linkimage template, that is not inlining.  I'm not even sure which you want.  kotepho 00:41, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I mean putting the suggestion of putting the image on a subpage (E.g. Lolicon/Image) and putting a link to it from Lolicon, rather than shwoing it inline. Johntex\talk 00:48, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Subpages are deprecated(it works, but don't do it) in Main:(article space). See Wikipedia:Subpages kotepho 00:55, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't understand that sentence.  Can you please elaborate or rephrase? Johntex\talk 01:05, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Better? kotepho 01:34, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Much better thanks.  From reading the link you provided to Wikipedia:Subpages, it seems that the history is subpages were once an attempt at categorization, but were limited in their ability to handle many-to-may relationships.  That should not be a problem with regards to what I am proposing we consider. Johntex\talk 02:12, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Per Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_%28common_names%29#Subpages it probably does not even work anymore.  kotepho 02:22, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It definitly works and is in use today. See Neuro-linguistic programming/Workshop for an example.  If anything, it works better with the new category system. Johntex\talk 02:27, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Be that as it may, that does not change its deprecated status (going to look for mailing list posts) and how is it functionally different than linkimaging? kotepho 02:42, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Neuro-linguistic_programming/Workshop isn't a subpage btw.  It is just an article with a / in its name. kotepho 15:59, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You are incorrect; Neuro-linguistic_programming/Workshop is a workshop page for possible redesign of the Neuro-linguistic_programming article. -- nae'blis (talk) 17:54, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I may be wrong, but I don't think it is a subpage because it doesn't have the thing at the top to go to the parent page.  That think right under From Wikipedia, <  Parent page.  That you will see on a talk archive, a userspace subpage, etc.  Maybe they just turned that off for article space and it still functions as a sub page.  I'm not sure what they did when they turned them "off." Not that it really matters much.  kotepho 00:03, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

text: I don't know what it is, but the image already is inlined and it would seem that the poll is an attempt to have it not inlined (that is Template:linkimage).  The previous poll was on the side of actually linkimaging it and yet the 'status quo' remained. kotepho 04:00, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This has to be the most pointless and confusingest poll ever.  Now I don't know what it is trying to accomplish.  --Jqiz 04:13, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know what it is trying to do either, but I blame it on you people using terms inappropriately in a conspriacy to confuse me. kotepho 04:54, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Kill the current poll, if the questions are changing it is de facto invalid. It's also offering at least one false dichotomy and uses "inline" where it apparently meant "linked". No offense to the poll creator, I'm sure they meant well, but it's not going to work as constituted. I suspect once the Fair Use stuff gets sorted out this will be a null issue in any case. -- nae'blis (talk) 17:54, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This poll is biased: Either vote to keep or vote to delete.  Either vote to display or vote to link. Do not create a patchwork of options intended to favor an agenda.  So, I vote to keep both images and to display them where they can be seen. Sweetfreek 20:55, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Scrap this poll

message: Sorry to make everyone vote in two polls in one day, but the first one is clearly heading nowhere. I'd just like everyone here to list what they absolutely need to see with regards to the images in the article, in order to agree with any compromise. For example:
# I simply want to have the replacement image on top. Ashibaka tock 22:55, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Straw poll: runoff edition

message: But the image should be kept as is, on the protected article . The only other remotely acceptable option (other than adding more images) is to do something the community has already decided against; requiring people to click alink to see the image. This page is ment to inform, the current image does that. Sam Spade 00:02, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Would you support having the new image at the topic and the old (dildo) image lower down? Ashibaka tock 00:14, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair use? - brenneman{L}  01:53, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  I don't understand your crazy poll