Talk:Essential fatty acid

message: "Some of the food sources of omega-3 fatty acids are fish and shellfish, flaxseed, walnuts, and canola oil." What about walnut oil and flaxseed oil? Do they contain 
Absolutely. A significant amount of the oil in flaxseed oil is w3. Frankg 17:06, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, plants have ALA omega-3, algae has DHA, and fish both DHA and EPA. Sigh Ns (talk) 07:11, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  walnut oil and flaxseed oil 

message: "The most common fatty acids of each class are linolenic (18:3), EPA (20:5), DHA (22:6) for omega-3 and linoleic (18:2) and arachidonic (20:4) for omega-6." What do these numbers mean? Can someone add some prose, or at least a wikilink that can explain them? Guaka 14:30, 23 Aug 2003 (UTC)
thread_title:  what is essential fatty acids 

message: # What year was it first designated as "Vitamin F"??
# What year was it decided it should go with the fats??
66.245.109.165 00:32, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  What years?? 

message: Other sources I've read indicate that these two fatty acids are the same thing (two names for the same molecule). This page lists one as w3 and the other as w6. Does anyone know more about this kind of thing and can confirm/deny this? Frankg 17:06, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Another name for Arachidonic acid is "5,8,11,14-Eicosatetraenoic acid", per . --Arcadian 17:34, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So, does that mean that this page is incorrect? Or is there more than one type of eicosatetraenoic acid? Frankg 21:17, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  There are two types of eicosatetraenoic acid.  Actually, more than two, but only two are of interest here.  Arachidonic acid is all-cis 5,8,11,14-Eicosatetraenoic acid.  The ω-3 one is all-cis 8,11,14,17-Eicosatetraenoic acid.  They're isomers.   A similar situation holds with Docosapentaenoic acid.  I'll add an entry and some explanation at Eicosatetraenoic acid. David.Throop 19:26, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eicosatetraenoic acid/Arachidonic acid 

message: I've clarified the nomenclature.  If anyone has access to a program that turns out better molecular diagrams I'd welcome the improvement.  I see several problems with the suggested table of sources.  Several rows and columns are completely empty, and most of the column headings are abrreviations that aren't defined.  No source of the data is listed.  A table large enough to be encylopedaic would overwhelm the rest of this article.  So if we're going to add such a table it should be a separate page. 
Instead, I added citations to several rich sources on the web.
I also extended the listing of bodily fates.  The citations most are at the main articles, but I still need a citation for the effects in lipid rafts and DNA activation.
David.Throop 18:08, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Nomenclature, sources, effects in body

message: I removed the links to EPA, DHA and ARA in the Examples section because they were either pointing to exactly the same place as the spelled out form, or they were pointing to disambiguation pages.  David.Throop 19:14, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Redundant links in abbreviations

message: The SDA diagram has been replaced with an ALA diagram because, strictly speaking, SDA is not essential and ALA is; SDA may be created in the body by metabolizing ALA.  Because the topic is Essential Fatty Acids and the modern definition of essential is "cannot be produced, must be ingested", then ALA fits this topic (as does linoleic acid).  However, it should be noted that in some people - e.g. diabetics, alcoholics - SDA may be considered essential because the metabolic pathway (Δ6 desaturase step) from ALA to SDA may be severely constricted. Istvan 14:30, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I partially reverted this edit so it again shows stearidonic acid.   I understand your reasoning for preferring ALA.  I originally was going to use ALA as the example.  But the section is on nomenclature.  ALA has 3 double bonds and the first one is three from the omega end.  So when an unfamiliar reader sees 18:3 n-3, it isn't immediately clear which 3 is denoting the number of double bonds and which one is denoting the position of the first double bond.  That's why I chose stearidonic acid – 18:4 n-3 – as the example.  If you really don't like having stearidonic acid as the example, I suggest illustrating with EPA. I also changed your use of 'methyl' to 'CH3' to match the usage elsewhere in the paragraph.   By the way, thanks for all the cleanup you've been doing lately on this and related topics. David.Throop 18:08, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for noticing:)  I see you are also quite active on the lipid sites.  I now see your point about the ambiguity of n3 vs. 18:3  What do you think about using linoleic instead?  Technically its also "essential" by the strict definition, and there is an available illustration (but its not marked up as well as the ALA diagram - I wish I could mark them up but lack the software). Istvan 18:19, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  EFA Example Diagram 

message: This page needs more references to scholarly work/research done on essential fatty acids. If you know of any, please add it to the references section of the article. thank-you.
:Have at it (as far as EPA and DHA) PUFA Newsletter Sigh Ns (talk) 00:25, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  references 

message: In reference to LA and LNA, someone wrote, "These four fatty acids (in two permutations of the two listed) cannot be synthesised by humans..." What are the two permutations of these molecules? Frankg 19:07, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I changed this back to "These two fatty acids ...". Permutations of fatty acids sounds like nonsense. The author who changed it did not explain it. Please explain better if i am wrong here. -- 84.190.151.5 21:34, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Permutations? 

message: Sorry, Tyciol, I reverted your edit.  I put in another alternative wording which isn't perfect either.  Maybe we can both work on it and come up with something better.  Mere presence in tissue is not the only evidence that linolenic acid and linoleic acid are essential.  Some other omega-3's and omega-6's are sometimes referred to as EFA's;  they are only by a looser definition of this term, but the two I just mentioned really are essential.  "base" would not be a better term because it's not what's used to refer to vitamins and minerals.  "base" would certainly not be a better term for the derivatives.  --Coppertwig 14:30, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  wording of essential definition 

message: Why is the page called "Essential fatty acid" if there are more than one? I suggest a rename to "Essential fatty acids". --Liface 22:12, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Naming of page 

message: "Almost all the polyunsaturated fats in the human diet are EFAs."  How can this be true?  Fats are triglycerides (sometimes called "neutral fats"), not acids, right?  What is meant by this statement? Unfree (talk) 10:44, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fats vs acids

message: ^ "External blockade...by polyunsaturated fatty acids" . . Retrieved on 2007-01-18. - see page 1 of this link
^ "Antiarrhythmic effects of omega-3 fatty acids" . . Retrieved on 2007-01-18.
^ "Alpha-linolenic acid, cardiovascular disease and sudden death" . . Retrieved on 2007-01-18.
^ "Omega-3 and health" . . Retrieved on 2007-01-18.
These references may link a lower LA levels, along with an increased in ALA, with increased heart health, this is not a health benefit of the fats. Simply because a source is legitimate does not make it is useful for the topic. The health effects of EFA should be about what these acids do in the body, with a link to the heart effects of excessive saturated fats. 
http://www.fi.edu/learn/brain/fats.html  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.224.246.134 (talk) 20:09, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  References for "Heart Health" of effects: 

message: The article needs at least some mention of Omega-7 and a disambiguation link from the paramilitary group Omega-7.--Shantavira|feed me 14:29, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Omega -7? 

message: The 3rd paragraph begins at best misleadingly and needs fixing: "When the two EFAs were discovered in 1923..." ALA was not known to be essential (the "E" in EFA) for humans till the 1980s. The discovery date(s) for LA and ALA (were they really discovered the same year, 1923?) needs to be distinguished from the dates (eras) of the discovery that they are essential for animals and humans, as I recall about 1940 to 1950 for LA.Drdavis2 (talk) 00:37, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: There are two essential fatty acids Linoleic(Octadecadienoic) and Linolenic (Octadecatrienoic) Acid - all the "rest" can be manufactured in the body. One word of caution is that high levels of hydrogenated oils (trans fats) inhibits the absorption and utilization of essential fatty acids, hence the need to supplement in a modern diet.
The above statement about "all the 'rest' can be manufactured" is widely considered untrue for infants and especially premature infants. This is why DHA and AA are added to infant formulas beginning a few years ago. Infants cannot manufacture enough to meet their needs.00:37, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Two essential fatty acids

message: As far as I'm aware Ray Peat's explanation for why EFA's are non-essential is a marginal view.  He believes that humans can manufacture omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids from mead acid.  This is not possible as Human lack the enzymes to shorten mead acid.  It is produced by the body as a stop gap measure in times of extreme EFA deficiency - it cannot take the place of EFA's.  Perhaps a qualifier should be added to this statement?  Such as "Ray Peat has proposed.... ".
Ray Peat does not believe that humans can manufacture omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids, he believes that mead acid may be able to serve in place of them and may be superior to the omega-3 and 6 fatty acids, further as I understand his views, he is unconvinced that the essentiality of the omega-3 and 6 fatty acids has been conclusively shown.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pranarupa (talk • contribs) 19:22, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I would favor removing the statement completely. Does Wikipedia really have any obligation to quote the views of every food faddist who comes along? Yaush (talk) 15:29, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Ray Peat

message: References 3 and 5 are the same. I do not have time to edit the page, but I shall come back to it later. CielProfond (talk) 14:56, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference duplication 

message: This page says, "Mammals lack the ability to introduce double bonds in fatty acids beyond carbon 9 and 10". What about birds and other vertebrates? Can any invertabrates do this? Or do all animals ultimately obtain their essential fatty acids from algae? --  Solo Owl   04:12, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  EFAs in nonmammal species 

message: Substituted at 14:41, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: The section, as written was about EPA, and moreso DHA, as treatment for depression. As those are not be the strict definition essential fatty acids, does not belong here. The topic is addressed in the entry on omega-3 fatty acids. David notMD (talk) 05:02, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed Treatment for Depression 

message: I intended to add to the article a chart like Figure 2 of this paper, but I wonder what happens to lauric acid (C12:0, prevalent in coconut oil, small amounts in breast milk) and myristic acid (C14:0).  Do they get elongated in the human body to C16:0 and so on?  Does D9D turn lauric acid into a C12:1 omega-3 UFA?  Whether yes or no, sources are welcome, of course.--Jorge Stolfi (talk) 17:38, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Metabolism of lauric acid 

message: The current version of the nomenclature section begins: "Fatty acids are straight chain hydrocarbons possessing a carboxyl group".  That reads like a definition, but contradicts what a hydrocarbon is.  Secondly, not all fatty acids have straight chains.  The next sentence refers to "carboxylate" instead of "carboxyl".  How about "Consider a fatty acid with an unbranched hydrocarbon chain with a carboxyl (or carboxylate) group at one end, and a terminating methyl group and the other."?  This would benefit from an expert tidying. --Cedderstk 13:22, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nomenclature section