Talk:Mazanderani people

message: Okay first of all, I'm myself half Mazandarani, born and rasied in Mazandaran, and I know for a fact that Mazandaranis consider theirself as part of the persian people. Even the shah of Iran was from Mazandaran and considered himself a true Persian and Persian nationalist.
mazandarani isn't arabic or related to any other languages, other than persian (60-70%). Mazandarani is mainly driven from persian languages like pahlavi (Middle Persian). second, Mazandaranis are aryan/Iranic. And finally, third, the shah of iran was from mazandaran and a true persian nationalist. lurs,tats, mazandaranis, tylish, gilakis are all persian culturally,  in temrs of bloodline, mentally, mostly in language (60 to 70% of words in Mazandarani are of old Persian origin), and most important thing of all is that they consider theirself as a part of the Persian people and nation. This division is just crap. even many websites, some of the new ones released by cia fact books state Mazandarani, Gilakis, lurs, and Bakhterians as persian sub-groups.
:Are you a linguist? Let me guess. Not. And even if you are, what you're saying about languages seriously contradicts with what the majority of linguists think.
:In terms of linguistics, you're messing up the Persian sub-group with the Western Iranian group.
:I don't know for sure what you mean by "related to middle Persian (Pahlavi)". If "related" means that Mazandarani has SOME influence from Pahlavi, than yes, but it also has not less influence from some other languages. However, Mazandarani is in no way a DESCENDANT of Pahlavi (in other words, Pahlavi is not Mazandarani's MAIN ancestor).
:What do you mean by "Mazandaranis consider theirself as part of the persian people"? If you mean that they live in Iran, that was called "Persia" abroad until 1935, than this is justified. If they consider themselves to be Persian ETHNICALLY, then it is just the way they call the Western Iranian group of languages. It does in no way affect the fact that they in no way belong to the ethnicity that in English language is called "Persian".
:What do you mean by "in temrs of bloodline"? Do you mean that most of the ancestors of Mazandaranis came from Fars province inside the last 1800 years? It doesn't look like it. Check DNA data. They are quite different. There is nothing to say that, for instance, Mazandaranis are close to Persians, but different from Azerbaijanis, Turkmens or Kurds. СЛУЖБА (talk) 04:27, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mazandaranis are part of a persian sub-group and speak a persian dialect related to middle Persian (Pahlavi) 

message: This article is required to revertion to it's older edition, Since the user Bahram removed some of it's information --Ali 15:31, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Older revision

message: I tried to find reliable references for this article. However, I do not find any reference for two issues
* Mazandarani is spoken in Gilan, Golestan, Semnan, and Tehran provinces.
* It is less influences by non-Iranian languages compare to other Iranian languages.
For the time being I keep them. However, I added the citation tag on them. Please improve the article if you know reliable references for these information. I may remove unsourced material if the tags remain for a long time--Larno Man (talk) 23:36, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, Finally I found some good sources and added them--Larno Man (talk) 05:03, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  In Any case it is spoken in Golestan. Golestan has been previously part of Mazandaran.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 05:19, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

text: It might be true, but I was looking for a reference. Anyway, I re-wrote this part based on sources that I found.--Larno Man (talk) 05:43, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: References

message: Larno Man asked:
"Also, Babak provide more information. Give me a number on Georgians who migrated to Mazandaran? Is it a notable number?"
I should check the sources fro the exact number. I remember one source said that a European traveller spoke of 12000 Georgians in Farah Abad. 
In total some 200000 Georgians were displaced and  abig share of them were replaced in mazandaran. It was a notable number, especially in the 17th century.
See also  http://www.eva.mpg.de/genetics/pdf/Nasidze.pdf.
--Babakexorramdin (talk) 15:31, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: sorry it spoke of 12000 families--Babakexorramdin (talk) 15:58, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: 12000 !!!!!! Even the population of the city of sari in about 150 years ago was not more than 20,000 people, Shiraz at the time of zand dynasty had not more than 35,000 residents, Also because of Nasidze is georgian name and mazanderanis are caucasian, (or people in caucasia are mazanderani-originated) has nothing to do with this issue. Today gorji towns have no more than 4-5 thousand peoples (the largest one in behshahr has no more than 5,000 people in about 1000 families, Although census about cities are wrong but i think it is correct about villages), Also many of farah-abadis were killed due to russian attacks --Parthava (talk) 16:07, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  this is why there is a big question mark behind 12000 Georgian families in farah Abad. probably the traveller meant Mazandaran in general, or he had counted 12000 Georgian males, and has thought that they all have families. 12000 in the 17th century was indeed a big number. In AlamAra is written that once 3000 famlies left Georgia for Mazandaran. Iranian And Georgian sources agree with each other that the number of georgian migrants to Iran were about 200000 in the 17th century. A lot of them if not most went to mazandaran. Nasidze is Georgian, but also Germans and Iranians particpated in that research. Just go to the link and you see it. Finally I should add it that most of these Georgians were assimilated. --Babakexorramdin (talk) 20:28, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  numbers of georgians who migrated to mazandaran 

message: Please do not revert the whole article which is the result of hours of studies over scholarly books and journal papers. If you have problems with some parts please discuss your points instead of reverting the whole article. In such cases, please state why information from that specific reference shouldn't be used. If you feel the reference is not reliable state your reasons. Otherwise, sourced information should not be deleted.--Larno Man (talk) 04:11, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please discuss your points 

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thread_title: File:Iranian people.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: While we already have a section about assimilated Georgians, I think we should mention the amount of assimilated and/or settled Armenian and Circassian peoples as well. Iranica-online has some good information about the Circassians in Persia.
http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/carkas-cherkes-term-used-in-persian-arabic-and-turkic-for-the-circassian-people-of-the-northwest-caucasus-who-call-thems
LouisAragon (talk) 18:01, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Amount of assimilated/settled Circassians, Armenians and Georgians  

message: The Haplogroup I-M170 page, referring to a reference () claims this population, along with Persian Fars, is the only discovered instance of turning up individuals belonging to Y-chromosome haplogroup IJ*, which is the precursor and common ancestor to the common European HG "I", and the frequently middle eastern HG "J". (well the MRCA to IJ being from whence both groups are descended, not the (*) asterisk indicating parallel clades, but is nontheless presumably the only discovered population to be an offshoot from which neither population bottleneck had yet formed from I and J, but of a branch preceding those haplogroups breaking into their distinct lineages) The reference to the haplogroup section here doesn't mention this being the only population where IJ* can be found at all, perhaps someone could remedy this or correct the HG I-170 Y-DNA page if this is no longer the case. Nagelfar (talk) 05:14, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Genetics — Haplogroups. Y-HG IJ* 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 21:24, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: So there are nine sources(!) in the infobox about religion—all of them supporting Satanism as a minority religion. I have concerns about whether this is representative, as the stories could be somewhat sensational, and not all the sources mention Mazanderani people. Further, even though Sunni Islam and Baha'i are likely practiced, they are unsourced. I'd like input on which of these two approaches to take with the religion section of the infobox:
# Remove it entirely. Shia Islam is addressed in the body of the text.
# Pare it down to only list Shia Islam with a note that it's the majority religion.
Frankly, I'm leaning toward #1, as it will avoid future issues like this where sources are cherry-picked to boost a particular minority religion into the infobox. —C.Fred (talk) 02:20, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Religion in the infobox