Talk:Muselmann

message: This and Mussulmen describe the same topic.  Vote merge. Demilio 17:14, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

message: Shouldn't the title of the article match the spelling, or at least be mentioned as an alternative spelling, in the article itself? Frozen North. 08:21, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Title

message: Based on the comments above, including Deborahjay's in the previous Merger section, I have moved the page to Muselmann. There are very few uses of the Polish spelling "Muzulman" in the literature, and use of the German spelling predominates by at least an order of magnitude when referring to the concentration camp phenomenon. In addition, the article itself used "Muselmann" consistently. --MCB 05:39, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page move 

message: The term Museleman in this connection, comes from Yiddish and not from German.--Gilisa (talk) 14:54, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin of the term 

message: This section is very interesting, but has nothing to do with the term Muselmann. Is it needed here? This page, I guess, is about the history and usage of the term.Michtrich (talk) 20:33, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, it is very relevant since this is what happened to Muselmanner in the camps. You cannot consider the term and its meaning without referring to their fate. 86.175.194.97 (talk) 15:21, 28 March 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: You are right, but maybe let me clarify why I think it is not relevant here (whereas I won't at all instist on that). Muselmann is a derogatory slang term and by providing the information about how concentration/extermination camp prisoners were treated in this article you kind of strenghten or validate the slang term and its intention, which was to degrade (or at least it was supposed to). By providing this kind of historical information to this article you treat it as if it (i.e. a Muselmann) is an objective entity that really existed (e.g. in nature or as socially or culturally accepted concept). But it only existed in a very specific context among KZ prisoners (and they would rather ot have had it) and KZ staff and was equivalent to dying or dead. It was kind of making fun of death and very sarcastic or ironic at best. It is important to have an article on the slang term and its history and usage, but I think the information on how KZ prisoners were treated has a more respectful place in a more 'objectivly' titled article, without a negative context/connotation. Maybe this is a bit far-fetched, but it is like explaining feminism on a page titled 'slut'. Just a thought. Does it make sense? Any other opinions? Thanks, Michtrich (talk) 22:21, 28 March 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  The term was not just used by KZ staff but by KZ victims too, as the quote from Primo Levi shows. The prisoners knew very well what the "staff" were doing to them. It is a term used to describe the effects of starvation and emaciation on the human body, but it had unequal effects, perhaps because some prisoners were also affected psychologically as well as physically. It seems to me important to explain what happened to those poor victims, and it also highlights the extreme cruelty exerted by KZ "staff". 86.175.194.97 (talk) 22:48, 28 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section on Action 14f13