Talk:Lorica segmentata

message: Deleted this portion: 
"So far as is known, only legionaries (heavy infantry of the Roman legions) and Praetorians were issued with the lorica segmentata. Auxiliary forces would more commonly wear the lōrīca hāmāta ("hooked armour" - so-called because of the two hooks that secured the shoulder doublings) which is mail (frequently, though erroneously, called chain mail) or lōrīca squāmāta (scale armour). "
This is incorrect, since lorica hamata (chinamail) was the MOST widespread armor of the Roman empire. Even during the height of the lorica segementa's use (1st-2nd cent), there were still just as many heavy infantry legionaries that were wearing lorica hamata. The lorica hamata was FAR more popular than the lorica segementa.
Intranetusa 02:29, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Deleted Erroneous information

message: I still do not understand why the perfectly acceptable and commonly used term "segmented armour" has been replaced with "laminar armour". Cons: 1- Laminar-laminated armour is unfortunately often used to designate "plated mail": possible source of confusion. 2- Laminar-laminated armour is unfortunately often used to designate "lamellar armour": possible source of confusion. 3- Laminated armour is in fact accurately used to describe sandwich armour constructions made from layers of different materials (metals, textiles, carbon, ceramics, liquids, etc.), and not just in an armoured vehicle context: possible source of confusion. 4- Why then talk about a "lorica segmentata" when this name is not derived from Roman sources, but a modern invention? Do we now have to change that into "lorica laminata" too? And where is this alledged lorica laminata in the sources coming from I would like to know?87.212.52.128 (talk) 13:37, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Terminology 

message: I've heard, from admittedly unreliable sources, that in many cases, for the sake of cheaper manufacture, relative lightness, and bearability in hot climes, variants of this armor were made with the big plates being of boiled leather rather than metal, and issued in southern Italy, Greece, Africa and the East. Would anybody be able to confirm that, or is this an unverifiable (and probably false) crackpot idea ? --Svartalf 13:48, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  leather lorica? 

message: I also do not know where the idea that segs are more expensive than hamata (chainmail) to make comes from? I believe it is quite the opposite, which can be seen reflected in today's comparative prices, decent hamata usually being at least three times the cost of a decent seg. Hamata is much more time consuming and labour intesive to make, whereas there are re-enacters who can bend and construct, to fit an individual, pre-cut seg plates in no time at all, by hand, at re-enactment events. Perhaps field repairs are easier, but a Roman legionary hardly spent every day in battle, giving ample time to repair any breakages. There are also plenty of repairs visible on actual found segs. unknown user
Well, the thing is that this is the case... now, when chainmail is work intensive to make whereas modern technology helps greatly in shaping the plates for segmentata.
In ancient time, the positions were reversed, because, although time and labor intensive to make, hamata could be made by relatively unskilled slave labor, whereas the fabrication of segmentata needed skilful metallurgists and artisans, who were generally free and had to be paid, rather handsomely. --Svartalf 20:13, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  On the actual Wiki entry: 

message: Well, the thing is that all a seg needs is... a pattern, ferrous plate sheets, and basic metalworking tools. Once cut, the plates can be bent to shape over your knee (16 gauge at the the thickest for the chestplates and upper shoulders, 18 or even 20 gauge thickness for the rest). Then you just need to punch holes in the appropriate places, add the brass fittings, and put it together using the leather strapwork and rivets. the most complicated part would be rolling the edges over at the neck and bottom girthplates. I'm even considering doing it, and I haven't done any metalwork for many years. Making a hamata is much more complicated as is any chainmail armour. You cannot just take a whole sheet of pre-prepared chainmail and cobble it together to make a shirt. It's far more complicated than that and takes a very skilled artesan to do it properly. One theory on why the seg was introduced was because of the need to equip a rapidly expanding and expensive army under Augustus, without breaking the bank. Besides, a hamata (or squamata, or plumata)was the preferred choice of centurions who had more funds available, and a higher standard of kit than the common miles, which by itself suggests that hamata was more expensive. unknown poster
You don't have at all the same working conditions as the Romans. a) you may have access to hotter fires
b) you have access to prerolled sheet steel, which they did not and c) hou have access to steel that would likely be much more easy to fashion without having it lose on some desirable properties, since our mastery of precision metallurgy is far more advanced then theirs...
Don't assume that things that WE, in our industrial age of highly developed chemistry find something easy, it was so in ancient times... just remember that it took 5 to 7 centuries for Western metallurgists to learn how to make high carbon steel that even remotely resembled that used by the Saracens ... and that even modern metallurgists are still arguing about the actual materials and processes used.--Svartalf 17:48, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's an old discussion, but just reading the original (unknown) poster's uninformed opinion that implies that iron and modern mild steel are just as easy to cold-forge annoys me. They probably think modern mild steel and roman iron look the same too.  RayBarker (talk) 17:36, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Response to that ;-) 

message: "Also, it was expensive because making a segmentata required an experienced smith with good facilities, while Lorica Hamata (chain mail) could be made by any slave."
Regardless of your opinion, it is only that. The quote above is pure speculation, and has no evidence whatsoever in original sources which are stated as fact in the article. It should be removed from the Wiki entry as it has no foundation whatsoever in evidence at all. Modern reconstruction proves the exact opposite, if anything.
:just spotted this. No. Your "modern reconstruction" (i.e. Manufacture by modern re-enactors using modern materials) shows it takes longer to make a set of lorica hamata, and that untrained persons can easily perform the task. IIRC The Corbridge Segmentata are wrought iron, so do you believe hot forging iron plates is easier than drawing wire and riveting hoops? Smithing is skilled work, and cold forging plate iron is an poor idea as although it is ductile it becomes more brittle (there is little or no work hardening in wrought iron due to the slag inclusions)  - it needs annealing to avoid this. bonus fact for re-enactors: roman steel was carburized iron, which is black and remains quite dark even with a mirror polish. 94.170.24.80 (talk) 21:35, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Fact Is... 

message: "The view that auxilia were light troops originates from Vegetius' comment that "auxilia are always joined as light troops with the legions in the line".Vegetius op cit II.2 It is true that some specialist units in the auxilia, such as Syrian archers and Numidian cavalry wore light armour (or none). But they were a small minority of the auxilia. Most auxiliary cohortes contained heavy infantry similar to legionaries.Goldsworthy Roman Warfare 127 Much has been made of the clear difference in  armour between the two corps shown on Trajan's Column. This is a monument erected in 113 in Rome to commemorate the conquest of Dacia by Emperor Trajan (ruled 97-117): its bas-reliefs are a key source for Roman military equipment. Auxilia are generally shown wearing chain mail (lorica hamata) cuirasses or simple leather corslets, and carrying oval shields. Legionaries are depicted wearing laminated-strip armour (lorica segmentata) and with curved rectangular shields.L. Rossi Trajan's Column and the Dacian Wars (Thames & Hudson 1971) 102 But on another Trajanic monument, the Adamclisi Tropaeum, the lorica segmentata does not appear at all, and legionaries and auxilia alike are depicted wearing either chain mail or scales (lorica squamata). There is general recognition that the Adamclisi monument is a more accurate portrayal of normality, Mattingly op cit 207 with the segmentata used rarely, maybe only for set-piece battles and parades. The figures in Trajan's Column are highly stereotyped, in order to distinguish clearly between different types of troops.Rossi op cit 59armour of legionary and auxiliary units In any event, both corps were equipped with the same weapons: gladius (a close-combat stabbing sword) and javelins, although the type of javelin known as a pilum seems to have been provided to legionaries only.Goldsworthy Complete Roman Army 136 Goldsworthy points out that the equipment of both corps were roughly equal in weight.Goldsworthy Roman Warfare 127 If there was a difference in armour, it was probably due, again, to non-military reasons: by providing legionaries with more protective (and expensive) glamorous armour, the army was highlighting their social superiority, just as it did with higher pay. During the 3rd century, when all peregrini were granted citizenship, and therefore legionaries lost their social superiority, the lorica segmentata and the rectangular shield disappeared.Goldsworthy Complete Roman Army 209  "
Intranetusa (talk) 15:36, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Added a section from another wiki article regarding chainmail vs segmenta, auxillaries

message: The armor is depicted in Arch of Constantine (  ), erected by Emperor Constantine I to commemorate his military achievements. --Kurt Leyman (talk) 21:44, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, no. The reason it is depicted is that the Arch of Constantine made extensive use of reliefs from earlier, 2nd century monuments. These naturally depict the seg., but it does not mean that it was used in the 4th century. If you check out the relevant panels, you'll see that they depict stylized 2nd century legionaries and auxiliaries, while the difference in style with the lower reliefs from the time of Constantine is evident. Cheers, Constantine   ✍  09:02, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Still in use in early 4th century 

message: Ptryie lied ba la nonka? Faeasa sue marta...Beas.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.158.67.59 (talk) 18:59, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nonka? 

message: See http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=fc6a7db1dd7d0bbaeab2bd7322386ffd&ct=mdrm&prevstart=0 , a snapshot could also be made for this article  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.182.189.236 (talk) 09:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: 3D google warehouse model

message: There is no citation for anything in this section and the assertion that locria segmentata has become synonymous with Roman armour is dubious. Does the populace even have a conception of Roman armour as detailed and specific as locria segmentata? Surely, such an association is not as ubiquitous as it would be with the gladius, scutum or galea. Also this section contained a reference to its erroneous use in the TV series Rome. This is false as locria hamata, leather armour and the muscle cuirass are the only types of armours used in this series.
Do yourself a favor-talk to some random people on the street, ask about "roman armor." They'll start talking about that cool looking stuff with the shoulders more often than not. They'll also think it's  leather a lot of the time, because people somehow still think leather stopped swords.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.175.222.237 (talk) 04:23, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pop culture section. 

message: In de Bello Gallico, Caesar clearly has his legions split up among the various towns to act as a garrisoned force. In fact, until the concept of comititanses and limitanei came about, I don't recall there being a difference between these. Thoughts?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1068411lck (talk • contribs) 06:24, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regarding the division of legions 

message: The article describes certain metal hoops as "girth hoops." At one point the word girth was a meme, and "girth hoops" sounds very weird. This was probably vandalism. Ewf9h-bg (talk) 15:40, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Girth Hoops?