Talk:Alpha Phi Alpha/Archive 3

message: Why don't you upload the Alpha Pin on the page?  Bearly541 01:09, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Same answer as here: The image is copyrighted and can't be used. If someone here takes a picture of a pin and uploads it, that's fine. Taking the JPEG from another site is not. | Mr. Darcy talk 02:28, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: CCSon, take a picture of your pin and upload it to Wikipedia.  I will "try" to do the same with mine :-) Bearly541 06:46, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll have to polish it first. I'll have it done before the weekend is over.  Ccson 13:53, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Alpha Pin

message: Are you sure that Congressman Charles Diggs was an Alpha?
Also, in the Alpha history book copyrighted 1981, Ralph Bunche was referred to as a non-member. Bunche died in 1971. If he was an Alpha, he would have been mentioned in the Charles Welsey history book as a member. 
Jsmith212 02:44, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Both names were mentioned in the Alpha Centennial Documentary.  The documentary is linked in the External links section of the article.  I did search the web and found this link which indicate Bunche was  member Bunche. Ccson 04:28, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Charles Diggs is listed in Part 4, between 8:30-8:45 minute mark.  I will try to locate the reference to Bunche on another day, but the link above notes his membership. Ccson 06:30, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Ralph Bunche name is mentioned in Part 6, between the 12:00-12:15 time stamp.  Danny Davis is speaking and says Alpha must continue producing the MLK King's, the Ralph Bunche's, etc.  Please listen and verify.  Also, I do appreciate the time spent to read and ensure the article is correct and I hope you will continue.  I'm still available to help on Omega Psi Phi.  thanks Ccson 14:28, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Charles Diggs and Ralph Bunche 

message: :Ccson, here is the actual copy/paste e-mails between me and Skip Mason:
My original message to Skip Mason was:
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 20:16:05 -0700 (PDT) 
From: " " < @yahoo.com>  Add to Address Book  Add Mobile Alert  
Subject: Nobel Prize Winner-Ralph Bunche-Wikipedia 
To: skipmason1906@aol.com 
    Hello Skip Mason, 
I am not a member of Alpha Phi Alpha, but I am a frequent contributor to numerous Black Greek letter organization articles on www.wikipedia.org
 
On wikipedia.org we are having an ongoing discussion about whether Ralph Bunche was an Alpha or not. The link below represents part of this discussion:
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Alpha_Phi_Alpha
 
So I would like to know if you know anything about whether he is a member or not. 
thank you,
From: Skipmason1906@aol.com  Add to Address Book  Add Mobile Alert  
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 23:26:39 EST 
Subject: Re: Nobel Prize Winner-Ralph Bunche-Wikipedia 
To: @yahoo.com 
    Hi Jason, 
Sorry for the delay. No Ralph Bunche was not an Alpha. I have always known him to be affiliated with Omega Psi Phi.
 
Skip Mason
:These are actual copies of the e-mails, I only deleted my last name and e-mail address from these messages. 
The authenticity of these e-mails can be verified by contacting him at (skipmason1906@aol.com). 
Although Skip Mason said that Ralph Bunche was affiliated with Omega Psi Phi in the e-mail, Dr. Bunche was not affiliated with Omega Psi Phi either. Many believe he was an Omega because he won the Omega Citizen of the Year Award in 1948. But he was not in any college fraternity.
Jsmith212 19:06, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ralph Bunche Finalized

message: "Alpha claims 60% of black doctors, 75% of black lawyers, 65% of black dentists, and close to 90% of black college presidents in the United States, with brothers in over 700 college and graduate chapters in the United States, the Caribbean, Africa, and Europe."  is a direct copy and paste from http://www.hartfordalphas.com/alphaphialpha.php?ID=1; please revise.  GreatChimp 12:55, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: One sentence does not make for a copyright violation, especially when it's attributed. | Mr. Darcy talk 15:14, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyright Violation 

message: Thanks for clearing that up.  What of the accuracy of the claim? The Reliability of the source?  GreatChimp 16:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I see no issue with it. The sentence makes it clear that the information comes from the organization itself, as does the citation. The US Census Bureau doesn't exactly track membership in fraternal organizations. | Mr. Darcy talk 16:32, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I don't see that as a reasonable position. We're not talking about a partisan or extremist organization, and there's nothing outrageous about their claim. | Mr. Darcy talk 17:24, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I read it the first time; there's no need to quote chapter and verse repeatedly. But since you are, let me do the same: "The American Association of Widget Manufacturers is interested in promoting widgets, so be careful not to rely on it exclusively if other reliable sources are available..." You have yet to present another source, or any evidence that the claims made about membership are false. (It was evident to me that the 75% claim referred to MALE lawyers.) I don't see any issue with repeating APhiA's claims about its membership, as long as the claims are attributed properly. Asking for a government source sets a completely unreasonable standard. If you have an unbiased third-party source that can show contradictory evidence, let's see it. | Mr. Darcy talk 20:50, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

text: That's not required under WP:RS, per the passage you quoted yourself. The ABA passage says nothing at all about Alpha Phi Alpha, and thus has no bearing on this article. | Mr. Darcy talk 22:54, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Asked, and answered. The 75% figure refers to male lawyers. | Mr. Darcy talk 00:00, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Accuracy of the claim & reliability of sources 

message: http://www.black-collegian.com/african/monument1299.shtml  Used as a reference to "In 1968, after the assassination of fraternity brother Martin Luther King, Jr., Alpha Phi Alpha proposed erecting a permanent memorial to King in Washington D.C. The efforts of the fraternity gained momentum in 1986 after King's birthday became a national holiday and led to the creation of The Washington D. C. Martin Luther King, Jr. National Memorial Project Foundation, Inc to collect funds of $100 million for construction.[34]" is a dead link.  GreatChimp 18:36, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 

message: I believe the term "Armed Forces" in the context of the article (US branches of service) is usually capitalized.-Robotam 15:02, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The link you provided is the name of an Album by Elvis Costello.  See Armed forces regarding branches of service.  It's only necessary to capitalize the first word "Armed" when it is used at the beginning of a sentence.  Thanks anyway for for efforts in proof-reading, I do appeciate all the input.  If you still disagree, pls reply here and I'll check back. Ccson 04:26, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I will make the change to capitalize Armed Forces.  thanks again. Ccson 03:23, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Armed Forces 

message: Just wanted to say great job on the new stuff!! Looks fantastic. 0000-six!!
Adisalee 14:37, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revisions and additions! 

message: I was told that the letters "Alpha Phi Alpha" stands for "First of the First." Is that correct? 2much 21:37, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have never heard that, but I will do some research.--Ccson 14:14, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I'm not saying that the name Alpha Phi Alpha doesn't translate to First of the First in Greek, but I'm not sure if that is why the founders chose the name.--Ccson 02:51, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  First of the First 

message: I've unprotected this talk page for discussion of the anon user's comments. I have to admit, I don't understand what his/her point is, but I would like to hear a fuller explanation here. | Mr. Darcy talk 22:06, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Unprotected

message: This bears too much resemblance to the edit wars of September/October, so I've semi-protected the article again. The talk page is still open for all discussions. | Mr. Darcy talk 15:56, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you review the archives of this talk, you'll see that you have been placated in the past when editors have engaged in several other exhaustive discussions about Alpha's status and "first", and your case was rejected on several occassions.  The same ole rhetoric about alpha having grad chapters so it not a college org, it has honorary members some of who didn't attend college, is Alpha a prototype, was Ethel influnced by her husband, etc.  There's nothing new here, again please review prior discussions and perhpas you will understand why the current article has been approved by the general wikipedia community and why the Admin has chosen to not involed other editors in this unnecessary exercise.  Plus, you should not be engaged in any edits or discussions since you were banned as a contributor to wikipedia.--Ccson 00:43, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Many university do more than educate, they are research centers and teaching centers, etc.  that doesn't take away the fact they are there to primarily to educate students.  You say "many caucasion", that's not all and  Alpha did not invent the idea of a graduate chapter, plus the article indicates when the first grad chapter was created, so any reader can determine (not even determine) it clearly states there are graduates chapters. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ccson (talk • contribs) 16:15, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Protection