Talk:Candombe

message: I'd love to read more about Candombe...
The article states that Candombe is played in "Montevideo's central neighbourhoods". Actually Candombe is played in every neighbourhood of Montevideo. Traditonally it had been played mostly in Barrio Sur and Barrio Palermo, the neighbourhoods where the afro-descendants traditionally have lived. Now it is played all over Montevideo, even in the upscale neighbourhoods. It is also played in different cities of the country. There is even an event called "Las llamadas del interior" which takes place in Durazno. --200.125.25.88 04:19, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: The funny thing ,is that this article is more accurate that the spanish version. Here are no lies and it's correct, maybe you can say more and it is true that candombe is played all around Uruguay, but the information is truthful. sometimes wikipedia fails when it comes to information regarding small countries. Thanks for this one!
Another uruguayan.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.135.34.98 (talk) 01:27, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Great Article!

message: the style of afrolatin drums known as 'candombe' in southern south america is strictly montevideano (from the capital city of uruguay) in origin, with roots in west africa.  this is historical fact, and this article is being compromised daily by people who want to distort truth.  
playing candombe in argentina and brasil is very, very recent, while it has been played in montevieo for centuries.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.227.158.153 (talk) 06:35, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  candombe is music from uruguay, all references to argentina and brasil are misleading, and factually incorrect 

message: WOW what a train wreck, this article is only about 80% wrong!  Candombe is from EL BARRIO SUR / PALERMO in Montevideo Uruguay, not Buenos Aires Argentina.  It dates back centuries.  This article is totally focused on the wrong country & wrong city.  Even the pictures of the so called Argentine-Candombe are wrong.... those are not candombe drums, they don't look anything like the real thing and I'm sure don't sound anywhere near what they are supposed to sound like, they are all being played with both hands. Candombe is ONLY played with 1 hand and 1 stick.  This is like reading an article about the origins of Rock-n-Roll and seeing London, England, England, London, England, London + with acustic guitars.  Do they NOW play Candombe in Argentina, I'm sure they do there are about half a million Uruguayans living in Buenos Aires (report pubished in 1996) so I'm sure they have formed groups, Candombe is now played in Australia & Europe too. I've grown up amongst Argentinos & Uruguayans & I've never once heard anything at all about any kind of so-called Agentine Candombe??? 
  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.88.230.3 (talk) 13:03, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  WOW HOW WRONG CAN IT GET 

message: there is no such thing as uruguayan candombe, or argentinean candome.
there is just candombe. and it is an afrolatin musical form from the city of montevideo uruguay.
this article is being played with by people from argentina with a sick sense of humor  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.227.158.153 (talk) 06:51, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  complete mess 

message: Candombe is from Uruguay & Uruguay ONLY.  There is no such thing as Brasilian Candombe or Argentine.  Those pictures from argentina looks like a basic hippy drum circle. People have hippy drum circles all over the world, it is not Candombe. Candombe is played with a stick and hand not 2 hands.  This article looks like a desperate attempt of an argentine idiot trying to change history and take ownership once again of something else that is uniquely Uruguayan. 74.90.162.122 (talk) 19:09, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  So anyone can go on Wikipedia and make stuff up 

message: It is practically un readable  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.23.23.110 (talk) 17:28, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article has been clearly written by a non native english speaker 

message: i am denouncing the sabotage of a cultural musical manifestation known as candombe.
a music of montevideo the capital city of  uruguay. all references to brazil or argentina are misleading. 
candombe is the music of the afro-latins of montevideo uruguay.
thats it. all there is to it.
consult a real encyclopedia, like the BRITANNICA
and don't accuse me of not citing sources, you cant get better than the britannica (for english)
look it up
http://www.britannica.com/
"The candombe is a folk dance performed at Carnival mainly by Uruguayans of African ancestry"
if you crazy people want to re-write history, know that the real published encyclopedias maintain a semblance of rationality and truth
not to mention clarity, objectivity and good sense
you would love to edit the http://www.britannica.com/ article on candombe, wouldn't you?
 well you can't
you can try all you want, but you cannot modify history to your liking.
there is no candombe but candombe, and it is from montevideo, uruguay.  
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.227.158.153 (talk) 09:13, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  sabotage/electronic warfare 

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thread_title: File:Eduardo Mateo disco Mateo solo bien se Lame 2 1972 Argentina.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: I’m going to give my point of view:
I disagree with two specific things, which I will object and I’m ready to listen to someone who disagrees:
One: “Candombe is practiced in Argentina”. The corrected saying will be "candombe is Argentinean too and it’s also practiced in this country." Because I could say "tango is practiced in Finland", but that phrase doesn’t say that tango is Finnish; it just said a kind of music is played in a certain place. And I could write "tango is Argentinean, and also practiced in Uruguay" and surely an Uruguayan could rightly be angry, because I’m asking the sentence not well-formulated.
The other: “Regional scenes Montevideo Uruguay”, I would add "and Argentina", especially the neighborhoods (barrios) of the city of Buenos Aires, although other towns of some provinces.
Candombe is a music of Rio de la Plata region. I will not argue in a bad way about whether its origin, if it is Argentinean or Uruguayan to see who wins the World Cup; it does seem well suited to discuss in the appropriate field being each one as unbiased as possible (this is difficult because you have to forget the nationality you has). Absolute truth doesn’t have anyone, and requires joint research and review by two brotherly countries to get to the heart of the matter (and even might happen that this doesn’t reach), that really make a good to the History because you can rebuild on concise and so we all get out. Based on this view of thought I will try to build and not to compete to see which country wins the championship. More than once I've altered in discussions with Uruguayan brothers on common issues that concern us, and then I will try to vindicate me, obviously quieter. Argentineans and Uruguayans have a very similar idiosyncrasies, and music too. It is unfortunate that our people for various reasons are not more twinned, especially after the controversy of the cellulose pulp mill. And who better than the great Alfredo Zitarrosa to describe us:
So there will be no way
don’t walk together,
treat the same subject
Easterns and Argentineans.
From “Ten stanzas of greeting to people of Argentina”, by Zitarrosa.
(In Río de La Plata, always people said Eastern –orientales- is the same as they said Uruguayan).
If we go back to candombe Genesis, and tango also, we must focus our optical in slaves of colonial Rio de la Plata, who were of Bantu origin, they are people from the southern half of Africa (south equatorial Africa, such as Angola, The Congo and Mozambique). Came contingents of slaves from Western Central Africa (Benguela and Luanda), Gulf of Benin, South East Africa (Mozambique), Western Central Africa (Congo, Angola and Loango) Gulf of Biafra (Bonny and Calabar), Gold Coast and Western Guinea; being the largest percentage of Bantu ethnicity. In 1517, Fray Bartolomé de las Casas, pitying by natives who worked in the mines of America, called Black contingents were sent to labor supply of those, thus giving the kickoff for the slave trade from Africa. The first black-auctioned in Santa Maria de los Buenos Ayres were Macián and Vicencio (obviously, these aren’t their real names but the Spanish nicknames imposed by their handlers), in 1538. In 1778 (after creation of Viceroyalty of Río de La Plata in 1776) is performed the first census in Rio de la Plata, which yields the following results regarding the black population: for Catamarca and Tucumán: 60 to 70% negroes, Cordoba: more than 50%, Buenos Aires: 30%. Just in 1791 Montevideo is enabled to download the slave ships. Then, in 1810 there were approximately one-third of blacks (in that year in province of Buenos Aires, color castes -Negroes, mulattoes, zambos- accounted for 27.7%). The Assembly of year XIII declared freedom of wombs (this is, freedom for the children of slaves). In 1853 constitution provides the abolition for Argentinean Confederation; Buenos Aires will come later, in 1860. Popular negroes were Antonio “Falucho” ("Felucca") Ruiz, Sgt. Cabral, the minstrel (bard) Gabino Ezeiza, so on. In the Casa Mínima (Minimum House), which is on the passage San Lorenzo st. # 380 San Telmo neighborhood, is said to inhabit the first free black, although this maybe not asserted. War of Independence (1810-1825, although it could be cited its inception in 1806) and yellow fever epidemic (1871-1873) made impair suddenly, with Paraguay War (or War of Triple Alliance with this country, during the presidency of Sarmiento), which took place between 1865 and '70, even before that was in Buenos Aires more than 20% of negroes belonging to ethnicity aforementioned; after sending many negroes to the battlefront while whites stayed here resting (like today do first world countries), were significantly reduced, so that censuses of that time throw to after 1st Great War, a result of 70% European immigrants and the rest almost all Creoles, although black gene still continues in Mulattoes, Zambos (negroe+Amerindian), women and children left here. But, although sometimes go unnoticed due to miscegenation with whites settled for generations, perhaps because they are inclusive quinterons (mulatto mixed with white over 3 generations), today there are about 4 to 6% African descendants in several cities, according to a census conducted by University of Tres de Febrero Municipality (City Council) to mid-2000s. Remember that “history is written by who win... money manufacturing it”. So: that negroes completely disappeared victims of epidemics, to be sent as cannon fodder in the battles or as product of miscegenation with whites, it's all working or social construction, or rather, say, genocide in Argentine pro European discourse. This on purpose invisibility makes many Afros ignore their ancestry.
The first tangos, coming directly from candombe, n’ were danced at the site of the Black woman Paulina, and already by 1865 are published in newspapers of black community. These Afro-porteños newspapers (porteño is the demonym/gentilic of people born in Buenos Aires city) start with La Raza Africana (The African race) in 1858, and during 1870 circulating the following: El Unionista (The Unionist), El Aspirante (The Applicant) (1882), La Perla (The Pearl), La Igualdad (Equality) (1873/4), La Juventud (Youth) (1876/9), La Broma (The Joke) (1876-1882), the bulk of these publications remains until 1885, and La Protectora (The Protective) and La Verdad (The Truth) until 1910. This would be the primitive era of tango, before the Guardia Vieja (Old Guard), which doesn’t yet exist. In the beginning tango was the word used to refer to Negroes meeting and its meaning is drum or dance in Bantu.
At first tangos were instrumental, and is conjectured they originate in the cifra, the estilo and the milonga campera -countryside milonga, the primary kind of milonga, throwed to country ambit by Ezeiza merit- (three rural folk genres of the province of Buenos Aires, hypothesis defended by Carretero and Villar; it`s the first Carlos Gardel repertory), candombe (according to Gabino Ezeiza, Etchebarne, Rossi, Borges and Lanuza) that still exists, the Cuban habanera and the Andalusian tango (defended by Carlos Vega, Selles & Matamoro) also. All this wake up controversies. The time signature of the milonga has its origin in Central Africa.
And, what they have to do the tango with candombe? Much, and at that time even more, and also serves as my argument to demonstrate the presence of Afro population in Buenos Aires. The first tango wasn’t it today we know as tango.
Candombe in its Buenos Aires musical branch was danced exclusively in the Shimmy Club, an association of Afro-Argentineans of the colonial trunk founded in 1882 under another name, as Alfredo Núñez, grandson of the afroporteño (African descendant born in Buenos Aires town) who instituted it for their carnival dances, which lasted eight nights. In opposition to Montevidean, Buenos Aires candombe remained hidden in brotherhoods during 20th Century. The Shimmy Club was the most paradigmatic Afro institution of the twentieth century and is still living memory throughout any Afro of colonial trunk greater than 40 years old. The main influencing nation in candombe was the Congo. In 1836 Juan Manuel de Rosas called for all negroes to have a party, which he attended with his family. When Rosas was overthrown, was the end of the protection of these nations, along with that the natives and gauchos, and began his debacle, after the much talked civilization of Sarmiento. "Civilization doesn’t suppress the barbarism; it perfects it." (Voltaire).
Allegorical & historical works to Argentinean afros & candombe:
-Federal Candombe or The Congo Tambo in 1820 - Oil painting of Martín Boneo 1841 - Juan Manuel de Rosas and friends witness a slave’s party.
-"Slavery" by Francisco Cafferata (La Boca 1861-1890), considered the first Argentinean sculptor. Summoned in Palermo, Buenos Aires 1881.
-In Chascomús, there is still standing a church exclusively for black people, created in 1871.
-Popular song El negro schicoba, by Mc Key and Palazuelos, Argentina, 1865/67.
-First tangos by Gabino Ezeiza and Higinio Cazón, recorded 1905 in wax cylinders.
-El negro alegre, by Villoldo, 1907.
-Los amores de Silva, by Florio Silva, 1908.
-Pico a pico, by Arturo Mathon, 1912.
-Bakongo, Argentinean candombe band.
-Misibamba, Argentinean organization of afros.
-And so.
Other data:
First foundation of Buenos Aires town was in 1536 by Pedro de Mendoza (lasted only until 1541).
Second foundation of the same city was in 1580 by Juan de Garay. Both times belonged to Viceroyalty of Peru. In 1776 was designated capital of Rio de la Plata Viceroyalty.
Montevideo was founded in year 1724, 144 years after 2nd. Foundation of Buenos Aires. So, if Buenos Aires precedes Montevideo above in almost 150 years since its founding, in 1580, there were black people here, so I solve the porteño candombe has such historical legitimacy as its Montevidean counterpart, and even I hypothesized it is earlier.
From 1791 onwards the slaves landed in Montevideo. Since the beginning of slave trade in Buenos Aires from 1538 to that year, spent 253 years, that is: during 253 years slaves landed in Buenos Aires, and yet was enabled then the eastern (Uruguayan) harbor, there was circulating the "legal" smuggling and not the illegal one; of legal slaves’ traffic, a large percentage also came to Buenos Aires.
I hope not to offend anyone, as you may have noticed I am Argentinean, it I am neither pride me nor drive me mad, and I defend my position and I am expectant if I wrote something that could be refuted with historical references as I have appointed in everything I said, I will accept.
My personal conclusion: both, tango and candombe are from Rio de la Plata, understand as it Argentina and Uruguay, but tango is more homogeneous and candombe presents 2 variants by country. You cannot talk about history ignoring the political divisions or countries. It would have been very nice a world without countries or borders as Lennon imagined, but we have this horrible world and on it I have to go on.
I am convinced in Montevideo people play Montevidean candombe, unique of that place and not Argentinean, and most of cases people referred to it saying it as candombe curtly without the adjective that I believe should be together him. Also, I am convinced that in neighborhoods of city of Buenos Aires, San Telmo and Montserrat especially, people play candombe of Buenos Aires, which is also unique and it is no Montevidean. Both sub branches have a main trunk from the primal candombe.
I agree candombe is more popular in Uruguay than in Argentina (I'm not stubborn), unfortunately for us, and this doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist in my country.
But I love both candombes, which are one. “Candombe is a plant that grows and even the sky vibrates itself.”
I spoke almost exclusively of Argentina, because of Uruguay there is much more information of most suitable people than me, and there is a little information about Argentina.
One day I would also hanging out with an Uruguayan to finish a book started in 1997 with an Uruguayan friend died, called: The music of Rio de la Plata told by two inhabitants of it.
A hug to all who believe that what I wrote is constructive.
Sorry my English.
--Luis Blaugen-Ballin (talk) 20:26, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  My opinion about candombe 

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