Talk:Johnny Lee Clary

message: I met Johnny Lee Clary after doing research on hate groups in the US for college. I can tell you personally he is a fake.  I am a Christian. Most Christian pastors I know have at least a Masters degree.  Where did this guy go to seminary?  He did not. This whole thing was a publicity thing for his church to raise money.  Why else would they do it?  As far as the big conversion.  He still hated! He hated Muslims any one who disagreed with him ect. He even had the balls to say that if you disagree with him you are the KKK.  In other words you are doomed to hell.  The guy was nothing but a redneck, good ole boy looking to kick anyone’s behind who disagreed with him.   He is a fake.  Look who he hung around with and worked for.  Jimmy Swaggart!  Another fake getting rich in the name of Christ.  That is what  Johnny wanted to be.  He was more about the money than the religion.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.205.53.82 (talk) 15:59, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Untitled comment 

message: Thanks for the help. I am in the procees of putting a draft together for inclusion on the KKK article, see KKK talk. Potters house 16:39, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ku Klux Klan 

message: I'm having a problem with your resources.  One is just a link to a church, that's not really a resource for THIS page.  It could however be an external link.  A resource is "a book, film, television show, etc. which serves to VERIFY the contents of the page".  So unless the church itself has a page dedicated to "Johnny Lee Clary" this isn't a resource. 
On the same vein, there are many statements in this bio that don't cite any source for what would be considered fairly outrageous statements.  For example, "Leader of the White Knights...." if true should be able to be cited from at least a newspaper article or something of that sort. Wjhonson 01:42, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Resources 

message: I noticed you requested feedback, so here we go...I didn't want to actually edit it since it's a draft that I figured you were saving. 
You should probably spell out Ku Klux Klan the first time it's mentioned in the article (even if it may seem like common knowledge, it isn't readily apparent what your abbreviation is referring to.  You also might want to wikify that, since it's a very relevant article.  
You also might want to take a look at the Manual of Style since the formatting is a little bit weird.  You should usually have the defining paragraph before the table of contents and without a double header.  You will also want to boldify the title subject in the first sentence.
In fact the whole thing could be wikified a bit more, but I suppose that can come later.  
Are you asking also about copy-editing?  In "Upbringing", "He'd" should be changed, as that makes no sense.  And actually there are a good number of minor grammar errors which should be cleaned up.
You may want to think about breaking it up into paragraphs that are a little bit easier to digest, too.  
I'm sorry for criticizing so much....I'm only doing it in the spirit of creating a good article!  It's not a bad article at all, but could use some improvement.  Let me know if I can help you further with it. —Keakealani •talk•contribs• 08:02, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Critiques 

message: I'm glad to see this article restored to the main namespace, and I hope the improvements we've all made to it will justify its continued life at Wikipedia.
Clary resurrected himself from a lifetime of hate and misery, and this should be documented in the world's free encyclopedia as an example of love overcoming hate. --Uncle Ed 17:41, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Resurrection from the dead

message: OK  I've hacked away at the rest of the article and tried to do what I did with the Childhood, family and youth bit.  Cuts things down a lot but, I think, is more appropriate for a biography that is sourced entirely from the subject's own words.  I do think we should try and find independent sources for teh TV appearances.  Probably a lot harder since I believe they were mainly before 1996 and so online resources won't be much good.  anyone have a stack of 20 year old TV guides lying around? :-)   Also, I don't like the header for the section I've created, but couldn't come up with anything better tonight. -- SiobhanHansa 00:16, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Consolidation edits 

message: I'm reverting User:MyNameIsNotBob's removals because:
*For the wrestling piece - WP:LIVING states remove unsourced or poorly sourced negative material (my emphasis).  The wrestling piece isn't negative, though it does badly need sources.
*For the TV appearances we have our current sources which mention these appearances, I'll look through and add in the right ones.  I believe we can (and should) do better.  Although Clary mentions these appearances, we should be able to find independent sources somewhere too.  Still, it's only right that someone looking through a living person bio would want to remove something with a citation needed flag.
Feel free to disagree. -- SiobhanHansa 02:35, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going to revert your edit as even what you quote from WP:LIVING uses an or in it which would mean remove unsourced.. material. The material is unsourced which means it should be removed. Feel free to put it back with references. Until then, leave it out. MyNameIsNotBob 02:41, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, MyNameIsNotBob, that's a misreading. It means remove negative material which is unsourced or poorly sourced. Here's the specific quote from WP:LIVING: "Editors should remove any negative material that is either unsourced or relies upon sources that do not meet standards specified in Wikipedia:Reliable sources from any page..." Gwernol 02:45, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ok, thanks for pointing that out Gwernol. Upon looking at what I removed I am going to maintain that much of it could be seen as negative. MyNameIsNotBob 02:50, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Really? How could the opening paragraph be seen as negative, for example? "Johnny became a professional wrestler in 1983. He was trained (along with his brother Terry Clary) by former NWA World Junior Heavyweight Champion, Danny Hodge. Terry began his career under the name Sugar Boy, with Johnny as his manager under the name Der Kommisar after the 80’s new wave song by After the Fire. Terry is most notable for defeating Danny Hodge to win the World Jr. Heavyweight title after Johnny reached under the ropes during the match and tripped Hodge with a cane, causing him to stumble. The decision, however, was subsequently reversed by a special commissioner.". Unless there is reason to believe this is not factual (I agree it needs sources) I can't see how this could be thought of as negative. Thanks, Gwernol 02:58, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: after Johnny reached under the ropes during the match and tripped Hodge with a cane, causing him to stumble. Isn't negative?!?! Its a claim of a scandal. MyNameIsNotBob 03:02, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure you understand the nature of NWA Pro-wrestling then :-)  Nevertheless, could you just remove the negative pieces, not the whole section.  Thanks -- SiobhanHansa 03:11, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Only if one believed that professional wrestling was an actual sport rather than a pre-arranged entertainment. The wrestlers are playing characters, I don't think anyone actually believes what the characters do in the ring reflects the person playing the character. We don't, for example say that Larry Hagman was a bad man because he played a villain on Dallas. Gwernol 03:13, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, I'm willing to accept your arguments. Feel free to use your judgment in restoring the material I removed. MyNameIsNotBob 03:20, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

text: As much as I wish this went without saying, I wonder if this means we should actually modify our account of Clary's time as a wrestler to note which parts are kayfabe and which parts are real. -- Antaeus Feldspar 04:28, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, you'd figure people wouldn't read something like that and go "that scoundrel" and mean it, but like you said...I re-wrote it to make it more clear that this was all part of a storyline, and though at the time a member of the Klan, Johnny would NEVER commit such an awful act like tripping Danny Hodge.  As for references, unfortunately all the material I was able to verify was via his profile on ObsessedWithWrestling.com (which is listed in the entry's links section).  Which as far as I know can't be used as a reference(?).  Maybe I'm wrong on that.  Deputy Marshall 05:55, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I got it from http://www.johnnyleeclary.com/angel.htm Potters house 06:47, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Oh hell, everyone editing this article participated in that Afd.  I didn't check that before writing my redundant comment above. Dina 23:45, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reverting removed material 

message: Has anyone actually took the time to check out his website? It's full blantant hate and lies. Go look at the section about Marilyn Manson, 99.8% of that information is MADE-UP! Isn't lying a sin? Pssh...and he calls himself a good Christian. *rolls eyes* — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.151.207.114 (talk • contribs) 18:00, September 14, 2006 (UTC)
His website is gone. Hijacked or bought for splog. I just checked the link for a dmoz listing. I hope you keep the information up. All kinds of stories should be told, not just the ones with fluffy bunnies.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.93.23.8 (talk) 00:34, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  His website? 

message: I deleted the statement that Clary's views on Cobain were unfounded:
"however Clary's statements have little evidence to be justified with"
It is widly known that Cobain Commited Suicide and sang about suicide (e.g. Nirvana's fourth album In Utero was originally titled "I hate myself and I want to die; the lyrics "umbilical noose" in Heart Shaped Box etc.)
Clary himself put a gun to his head so he is a hypocrite. 
The article has been written By Pastor Joe Schimmel, not Clary. Many statements in the article are easily found elsewhere on the web, even amoungs pro Cobain sites. If this statement is to be re-posted, the author must explain exactly where the evidence is lacking.
Potters house 16:16, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nirvana 

message: He came and spoke to all the year 10s at my school yeserday, and he seems very nice.  Also, did you know he wears the star of david on a necklace?  Is that notable?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.209.147.218 (talk) 05:14, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Talk 

message: Clary is a liar.  If he really did all the stuff that he claims he did then why is he not in jail?  Clary was never in jail that I know of.  He made up that stuff about Marylinn Manson.  I am no fan either of Manson but it is stupid to make up lies to get people not to listen to him.  Clary's stories are also very questionable.  He always talks about how one man brought down the Klan.   He tells a story of Wade Watts being threatened by Clary.  Clary and a group of Klansmen meet him in a diner.  Clary says whatever you do to that piece of chicken we are going to do to you.   Watts kisses the chicken and everybody laughed.  
Now this is not the 1960's when this happened.  So no one called the police?  Why did Mr. toughguy pro-wrestler take a group of guys to go out against one old black man?  He means to tell us that a group of guys who are going to do someone harm suddenly have a change of heart because he kisses a piece of chicken?  
Clary also seems to have a problem with something called responsibility.  Clary blames the Klan for everything he did.  David Duke the then leader of the Klan spoke of non-violence.  Yet Clary says it is the Klans fault!
The question also arises of Clary's sanity.  I mean the guy stuck a gun to his head.  He was going to kill himself.   What other mental problems does this guy have?
What is this bull about Clary being a Klansman?  Clary was never really in the KKK.  He was an actor on talk shows. PERIOD!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.205.54.4 (talk) 20:32, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Questionable Character