Talk:German cruiser Prinz Eugen

message: Prinz Eugen is the only titular ship of Austria, and use Austria flag. Could someone write this section? Matt86hk talk 07:32, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Austria

message: Article reassessed and graded as start class. --dashiellx (talk) 14:51, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2008 

message: Prior to 22 March, the third sentence under “Subsequent operations” stated:
:"Two days later, while steaming off the Trondheimsfjord, the British submarine  torpedoed Prinz Eugen".(ref Schmalenbach, Paul (1971). "KM Prinz Eugen". Warship Profile 6. Windsor, England: Profile Publications. pp. 121–144.)
On 22 March, a newcomer to Wikipedia, User:SelectSplat noticed a problem with the syntax of this sentence.  It was the Prinz Eugen that was steaming, not the submarine.  (The Trident was powered by a diesel-electric arrangement, not by steam.)  SelectSplat edited the sentence to state:
:"Two days later, while steaming off the Trondheimsfjord, Prinz Eugen was torpedoed by the British submarine ."  See the diff.
On 23 March, User:Parsecboy reverted the sentence to its original syntax, summarising his edit as “passive voice is not so good:)”  See the diff.
I agree with SelectSplat that the present sentence implies the submarine was steaming.  The first sentence in the paragraph establishes very clearly that steaming is what the Prinz Eugen, Admiral Scheer and five destroyers were doing.  The present sentence structure is unworthy of an encyclopedia, and especially unworthy of a Good Article on Wikipedia.  I can see a number of ways to improve it:
SelectSplat’s syntax:
:Two days later, while steaming off the Trondheimsfjord, Prinz Eugen was torpedoed by the British submarine Trident.
Another option:
:Two days later, while steaming off the Trondheimsfjord, the British submarine Trident torpedoed Prinz Eugen.  (Nothing is achieved by reminding the reader that the Prinz Eugen steamed.  That has already been stated.)
A third option:
:Two days later, while submerged off the Trondheimsfjord, the British submarine Trident torpedoed Prinz Eugen.
:Dolphin (t) 06:32, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah. What he said. SelectSplat (talk) 07:33, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Except of course it's possible the submarine wasn't submerged when it fired the torpedo. However, I've seen all the old WW2 movies, and the submarine was always submerged with the captain (plyed by Randolph Scott, Fred MacMurray or similar) looking through the periscope and giving the order to fire torpedo number 1 or whatever. Another possibility is that it actually WAS the submarine that was steaming. Perhaps that particular submarine had specially engineered funnels on top which prevented the water flooding into the inside bits when the captain yelled "Dive! Dive!". We just don't know. SelectSplat (talk) 07:42, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: "Steaming" is a generic term that means the vessel is underway, not necessarily operating a steam engine (FWIW, there were some steam-powered submarines, for example, ). If you would prefer, we could change it to "while patrolling off..." Parsecboy (talk) 11:26, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I think while patrolling off is an excellent compromise. Dolphin (t) 11:31, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I changed steaming to patrolling. Dolphin (t) 07:12, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Subsequent operations 

message: Given that it survived WWII, would it not be serving either for the Bundesmarine or whichever country it got sold to? --83.108.30.71 (talk) 23:15, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The Bundesmarine didn't exist until 1956; Prinz Eugen was seized by the US at the end of the war but was not placed in service. It would be misleading to add a US flag to the infobox, since that implies seeing active service. Parsecboy (talk) 00:29, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  same flag? 

message: A few months ago I posted a photo of the wreck of the Prinz Eugen, taken in the late 80s or early 90s.  The photo was deleted over permissions issues.  I was given the photos to scan by the original photographer, a movie industry model maker, with the explicit intention of having them posted on wikipedia.  My question for the group is if these photos would have some value to the article.  Obtaining the required written permissions would require some travel on my part, so before I do so, I want to know that photos of the wreck add something.  Please post your thoughts below, and I'll check back in a bit. Squeakapeep.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.173.86.50 (talk) 00:44, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I had to delete the file :commons:File:The_wreck_of_the_German_cruiser_Prinz_Eugen_in_the_mid-1980s.jpg because it lacked the permission that was claimed to be sent soon. A wreck image would be nice, showing the state of the wreck in the 1980s. The permission could also be sent per mail, see :commons:Commons:Email_templates --Denniss (talk) 01:30, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd like to see some photos of the wreck added to the article, especially since it's become a diving location. We might add a gallery at the bottom with some pictures of the wreck, and one of the screw that was salvaged and returned to Germany. Parsecboy (talk) 19:53, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  photo permissions 

message: The discussion about the activities of the PE near the end of the war makes reference to the Lützow, and it's sinking by Tallboy bomb.  It should distinguish between the renamed Deutschland and the partially completed heavy cruiser Lützow that was transferred to the Soviet Union and renamed by them.
99.122.152.229 (talk) 22:25, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't really see that as necessary. The ex-Deutschland-now-Lützow is linked in the article, and the ex-Lützow-now-Tallinn is not mentioned in the article, so there shouldn't really be any confusion. And perhaps more importantly, the ex-Lützow is an obscure enough vessel that if the reader is aware of its existence, then they will assuredly know that the ship by that name in this context is the former Deutschland (as you did, for example). Conversely, if they aren't familiar enough with this topic they would know the difference between the two ships, they likely won't know that the original Lützow even existed, and thus still won't be confused. Parsecboy (talk) 23:15, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lützow 

message: I note that the "General characteristics" box for this entry shows the as built configuration for Prinz Eugen. The issue I have, is that it shows the length for the ship with the straight bow, which as far as I'm aware of, it was not completed with, as it was changed out for a clipper bow during fitting out I believe. Would it be possible to change the note at the bottom of that box to as completed, so that the length with clipper bow could be used instead? I think this would be more correct, as anybody looking for the length of PE would likely not be looking for the length with straight bow. I should also note that other wiki articles for ships in the german navy which had straight bows changed out for clipper bows (Bismarck, Scharnhorst, & Gneisenau) have only the length with clipper bow shown in the "General characteristics" box. 184.146.153.242 (talk) 21:41, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Length 

message: Why does this article use the US spelling for metres? Just asking before I change it. --Pete (talk) 20:19, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I could just as easily ask why it should use British spellings (or Canadian, Australian, or any other variant of English) - it's a German ship, so it's up to the author (i.e., me). If anything, the ship has a stronger national tie to the US anyway, given that she was briefly commissioned as USS Prinz Eugen. Parsecboy (talk) 20:23, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: We use the appropriate units of measurement where there is a strong national tie. Overwhelmingly German, in this instance, though I note the brief US service long after her active career had ceased. I don't think that trumps her Kriegsmarine service, do you? --Pete (talk) 13:16, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: What exactly is your point? They speak German in Germany - perhaps you're looking for this article? Though I'd note that the Germans also spell it "meter" (so if anything, "metre" would be flat wrong from either perspective). If your argument is that since this is a European article, it should default to British spellings, that's simply not how WP:TIES works. Parsecboy (talk) 19:00, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I was unaware that the Germans spelt in "Meter" - I thought you were puling my leg! Well, live and learn. I put it down to the sort of creeping Americanism that adds to confusion between measuring devices and measuring units. This does not arise in German, of course, but throughout the English-speaking world only the USA spells the unit as "meter". Thanks for your trouble. --Pete (talk) 19:48, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  German ship, American units? 

message: I think Contrammiraglio (Rear Admiral) de Angeles is a typo in Koop's book, the actual name was Carlo De Angelis, military attaché to Berlin, he's mentioned here. Previously he was the commanding officer of Eugenio di Savoia, the Italian cruiser named after the same historical figure. This piece of info is mentioned in this Italian forum, but I don't have more authoritative sources to offer right now.
--Hyper Shinchan (talk) 16:33, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contrammiraglio De Angeles 

message: The article says "Prinz Eugen scored a hit with a high-explosive 20.3 cm (8.0 in) shell, detonating Unrotated Projectile ammunition" but the link Unrotated projectile is to a British anti-aircraft rocket system. 80.29.155.223 (talk) 08:51, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: What exactly is your question? Parsecboy (talk) 09:20, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unrotated projectile? 

message: The second last paragraph in the 'Service with the United States Navy' section mentions the bell of Tegetthoff.
What relevance does that have to this article??
Sejtam (talk) 16:40, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Read further up: "In reference to her originally planned name, the ship's bell from the Austrian battleship Tegetthoff was presented on 22 November by the Italian Contrammiraglio (Rear Admiral) de Angeles." Parsecboy (talk) 16:53, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bell of Tegetthoff ?