Talk:Nightlife (Thin Lizzy album)

message: What is the correct album's name? Nightlife or Night Life? Thin Lizzy's official website calls it Night Life. And as can be seen here, every vinyl issues have Night Life written on it. However there's a statement in the article – Some reissue CDs, and occasionally other sources, spell the album title as Night Life, the same as the song title. However the original album title is Nightlife. A citation from that book would be good to clarify such statement. Otherwise, I see no point in having current name for the article. – Sabbatino (talk) 09:37, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: It's there on the album cover. I don't really see how any other source could trump the title as it is on the cover of the album, as drawn by Fitzpatrick per Lynott's instructions. The spines of the LPs also say "Nightlife". The official band website actually says "Nightlife" , although it gets the song title wrong. You might have been looking at the other "official" website (welcome to the cliquey, backbiting world of Thin Lizzy). The book citation is given; that's how it's written in the book, and also in both other Byrne books and the "authorised" Lynott biography by Graeme Thompson. Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:11, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: This website is also considered official and it shows Night Life as the album's name. The cover has Nightlife written on it, but Night Life is written on the vinyl itself. That's what puzzled me in the first place. Guess we'll never know what's the real title of this album as everyone spells it differently. – Sabbatino (talk) 06:49, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: That's the site started by the Thin Lizzy estate as opposed to the band itself. The guy who ran it has died so it hasn't been updated for a few years. The discography info comes from band history guru Peter Nielsen who is a lovely guy but he refuses to admit the existence of the band post-1986; more political stuff. His own site says "Nightlife"  but he's put "Night Life" on that site you found. It looks to me like Vertigo/Mercury (record company) always used "Night Life" on their labels, although at the bottom of the link I just posted above, they used both formats in their promo material. I'm satisfied that Lynott's intention was "Nightlife" as he and Fitzpatrick worked closely on the album cover, but the record company certainly seemed to contradict that with their labels. Whether they had a good reason to do that or whether they just got it wrong (as they occasionally did with song titles), as you say, we'll probably never know. Bretonbanquet (talk) 12:21, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for clarification. It's best to leave it like it is. – Sabbatino (talk) 12:16, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Album name 

message: Should this article mention the 1960 Willie Nelson song "Night Life", and if so, how should its relationship to the Thin Lizzy song "Night Life" be described?
Here are the facts:
* The 1974 Thin Lizzy album Nightlife contains a song called "Night Life", credited only to lead singer Phil Lynott.
* The Willie Nelson song and the Thin Lizzy song both contain a repeated lyric that's a variation of "The night life/ Ain't no good life/ But it's my life".
* Other than that, the lyrics are different.
* The chords and melody of the two songs may have similarities as well, depending on whom you ask - you can hear them both on YouTube, if you're curious; the Willie Nelson song here and Thin Lizzy song here.
* Despite the potential similarities, there appears to be only one clearly reliable source that mentions the two songs together: this Rolling Stone blurb about Willie Nelson's "Night Life", which begins, "It's no coincidence that guitar heroes like B.B. King and Thin Lizzy have taken their own stabs at "Night Life." ".
* For the record, B.B. King directly covered Nelson's "Night Life" throughout his career. Korny O'Near (talk) 20:28, 6 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: That's just a flat out falsehood. Rolling Stone does not use that word, nor, in my opinion, does it use words to that effect. You are the only person using the word 'cover', so to use it in this article is utterly unsupported by reliable sources. Bretonbanquet (talk) 18:30, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  Bretonbanquet You're being abusive. Damotclese (talk) 15:22, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Would you like to clarify that, Damotclese? Bretonbanquet (talk) 20:25, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

text: So what do you think the article should say? Korny O'Near (talk) 00:31, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: This is getting a bit tedious. Again, and for the last time, something like: "RS described the title track as "taking a stab" at Nelson's 1960 song of the same name." I do not expect to be asked this question again. Bretonbanquet (talk) 18:32, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Alright, fine - that's the opposite of what you said before ("there's nothing there we can use"), but this is fine too. Korny O'Near (talk) 21:14, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Well I made that suggestion before but you were non-committal. Other than this wording, there's nothing we can use as far as I'm concerned. Either you are happy with this wording or you aren't. It would be helpful if you could actually make a judgement on this wording either way. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:32, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I put my opinion in the section above this one. As to this specific wording, I'm not sure - it's odd to have a quote where none of the exact words appeared in the original source. Korny O'Near (talk) 23:15, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: You said it was "helpful". What we need here is for you to say whether you are happy with this wording being used in the article. And you're starting to lose me. "None of the exact words"? Be more specific. Would "RS described the title track as Thin Lizzy "taking their own stab" at Nelson's 1960 song of the same name." be more to your taste? Bretonbanquet (talk) 10:42, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I meant that, in your suggested quote of "taking a stab", none of those three words appear exactly in the original. And by "helpful", I just meant that it was helpful to know your opinion. "taking their own stab" may or may not be better, I'm not sure - it's still an inexact quote. We're in the middle of an RfC; I'm curious to hear what (if anything) other people have to say. Korny O'Near (talk) 00:18, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: You're starting to lose me here. Further up you've said the quote from RS was this: "It's no coincidence that guitar heroes like B.B. King and Thin Lizzy have taken their own stabs at "Night Life." and now you're saying that "taking their own stab" is an inexact quote. It looks mighty similar to me. If you're talking minor grammar and syntax, then the sentence can be fixed to make the quote exact. I do hope you're not just waiting for me to think up umpteen almost identical sentences till I hit on one that you like. Bretonbanquet (talk) 18:27, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  RfC: Relationship to Willie Nelson's "Night Life" 

message: *"Rolling Stone calls the song a cover of the Willie Nelson song" - or words to that effect. I think it's obvious, from context and common sense, that RS is calling this a cover. (And I would call it a cover also.) Attributing the opinion to Rolling Stone prevents us from having to take sides on what is sort of a legal dispute. Korny O'Near (talk) 00:36, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: That's just a flat out falsehood. Rolling Stone does not use that word, nor, in my opinion, does it use words to that effect. You are the only person using the word 'cover', so to use it in this article is utterly unsupported by reliable sources. Bretonbanquet (talk) 18:30, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  Bretonbanquet You're being abusive. Damotclese (talk) 15:22, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Would you like to clarify that, Damotclese? Bretonbanquet (talk) 20:25, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: In summary of the lengthy discussion above, my point of view is that the two songs are not similar enough for one to be a cover of the other. More importantly, no reliable (or unreliable) source anywhere says that the Thin Lizzy song is a cover of the Willie Nelson song, despite sharing part of the lyrics. The almost total lack of sources discussing the two songs together makes it very difficult to refer to them together in the article without veering into original research. However, I was happy to include a reference to the Rolling Stone article, providing it was not synthesised into an implication that Rolling Stone actually called the Thin Lizzy song a cover of the Nelson song. The Rolling Stone source simply does not say that. Bretonbanquet (talk) 20:52, 6 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: So what do you think the article should say? Korny O'Near (talk) 00:31, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: This is getting a bit tedious. Again, and for the last time, something like: "RS described the title track as "taking a stab" at Nelson's 1960 song of the same name." I do not expect to be asked this question again. Bretonbanquet (talk) 18:32, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Alright, fine - that's the opposite of what you said before ("there's nothing there we can use"), but this is fine too. Korny O'Near (talk) 21:14, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Well I made that suggestion before but you were non-committal. Other than this wording, there's nothing we can use as far as I'm concerned. Either you are happy with this wording or you aren't. It would be helpful if you could actually make a judgement on this wording either way. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:32, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I put my opinion in the section above this one. As to this specific wording, I'm not sure - it's odd to have a quote where none of the exact words appeared in the original source. Korny O'Near (talk) 23:15, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: You said it was "helpful". What we need here is for you to say whether you are happy with this wording being used in the article. And you're starting to lose me. "None of the exact words"? Be more specific. Would "RS described the title track as Thin Lizzy "taking their own stab" at Nelson's 1960 song of the same name." be more to your taste? Bretonbanquet (talk) 10:42, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I meant that, in your suggested quote of "taking a stab", none of those three words appear exactly in the original. And by "helpful", I just meant that it was helpful to know your opinion. "taking their own stab" may or may not be better, I'm not sure - it's still an inexact quote. We're in the middle of an RfC; I'm curious to hear what (if anything) other people have to say. Korny O'Near (talk) 00:18, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: You're starting to lose me here. Further up you've said the quote from RS was this: "It's no coincidence that guitar heroes like B.B. King and Thin Lizzy have taken their own stabs at "Night Life." and now you're saying that "taking their own stab" is an inexact quote. It looks mighty similar to me. If you're talking minor grammar and syntax, then the sentence can be fixed to make the quote exact. I do hope you're not just waiting for me to think up umpteen almost identical sentences till I hit on one that you like. Bretonbanquet (talk) 18:27, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Threaded discussion