Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics/Archive 11

message: Ok. Gurubrama is going to put a case for deleion review soon. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 04:59, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: deletion review

message: I would like to draw the attention of the WP community to the articles under Category:Ayyavazhi. Let me preface my comments by declaring that I am an agnostic and do not have any particular animosity towards any religion or its followers. My concerns are purely to do with the reliability WP as a source of information and its possible misuse. Let me also say that I do not allege any such behaviour from the User:Vaikunda Raja.
The articles under the cat Category:Ayyavazhi have been created by one user or by a cluster of IP addresses possibly associated with the author (, ) The same user has also created numerous stubs on other language versions of WP, including Afrikaans and Latin. These numerous pages and stubs in WP have spawned into the various syndicated online encyclopaedia sites such as reference.com, answers.com, Help.com, etc. The same user has also created entries in Simple Wikipedia (), Theo Wiki (),  Wiki Quote (),  Wiki Books (), Wiki News (), Wikitionary (),  and the list goes on. A quick google search excluding the English WP gives us a lot of hits, almost all connected with WP. It is very hard to find a source that is not in some way associated with this original user. 
There are no valid references or citations on a lot of these pages. IMHO no WP:NN, WP:NOR and WP:V tests were done during the early stages of these pages. They still fail in this regard. WP:Notability states that to be notable "A topic has notability if it is known outside a narrow interest group or constituency, or should be because of its particular importance or impact. "  IMO and in the opinion of many users who live in the area in Tamil Nadu, the faith Ayyavazhi does not seem to have many followers,  certainly not > 1 mil claimed by the user. ( ). Even the user agrees that this is not well known outside a select group ().
The above example shows me that if someone is determined enough, they can create numerous articles on WP on an otherwise obscure topic, and by the nature of the lack of any systematic review in WP, and by the spread of WP material on the Net, can over a period of time create a self-sustaining notability and authenticity. 
Parthi 00:55, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I personally feel that the set of articles fail the notability test and verifiability test. But we must not forget that there is still a chance of print references on it, though the chances are little as even Indian Census does not recognize it as a religion. The author has been informed and he promised to cite reliable sources. If he fails to quote them, we will have no option left but to purge the article(s). -Ambuj Saxena (talk) 06:38, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comment on Category:Ayyavazhi 

message: This event is on wikipedia main page, but is currently linked to the Reservation in India article. I've started a separate article anticipating that a lot is going to happen in the coming days. Please keep it updated. deeptrivia (talk) 03:24, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Reservation in India is currently a better article than the article you've created, but I'll work on that.--May the Force be with you!  Shreshth91($ |-| ŗ 3 $ |-| ţ |-|) 04:06, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Done! Now Indian anti-reservation protests, 2006 is more comprehensive than Reservation in India, and links updated on the Current events page, as well as on the Main Page to Indian anti-reservation protests, 2006.--May the Force be with you!  Shreshth91($ |-| ŗ 3 $ |-| ţ |-|) 04:19, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Indian anti-reservation protests, 2006]] 

message: Could someone see Talk:Khatri and sort out the issues? I haven't intervened yet but all these guys seem to be proud of their caste. I don't want to get into any more controversial issues for now so I'm watching from a distance. Nobleeagle  (Talk) 09:36, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Khatri]]

message: I have called for an RFC on whether the article Indian Occupied Kashmir is correctly named or redirected to Jammu and Kashmir. Please give your comments at =*Talk:Indian occupied Kashmir — Ravikiran 14:14, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Indian Occupied Kashmir RFC 

message: What is our policy regarding the use of lakhs and crores on Indian articles? deeptrivia (talk) 18:00, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We preferably use lakhs and crores with the international equivalents alongside. this was discussed about a year back somewhere. However, population stats would be better represented in millions. =Nichalp «Talk»= 18:18, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Okay, I reverted a series of edits made by User:Siddiqui aimed at eliminating the use of lakhs and crores. deeptrivia (talk) 18:36, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Units 

message: I am looking for a decent PD map of the Ladakh region. Anyone knows of any source? Thanks! deeptrivia (talk) 21:05, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You can use this map and modify it (if necessary). -Ambuj Saxena (talk) 21:30, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'm looking for something much more detailed. The best I could find was this. Anything better available? deeptrivia (talk) 21:50, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

text: This kind of map will be ideal, if someone knows of a PD version. deeptrivia (talk) 22:03, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ladakh map 

message: Would anybody like to have a look at Haphar's addition of the Sikh category to a wide range of bios. I have removed them from the cricket bios, as I don't feel that it is particularly relevant, and also as there are usually turban references in the text of Harbhajan Singh, Monty Panesar, etc. It's more of a diffcult call as to whether people like Manmohan Singh should be categorised by religion though.Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 02:23, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Abdul Kalam and Fakhruddin Ali Ahmed (both Presidents of India) are categorised as "Indian Muslim" as are Pataudi, Azhar and Zaheer Khan (the cricketers). Parsis too have a category by religion. When having Manmohan Singh as a Prime Minister is mentioned as assuaging the hurt feelings of Sikhs IN the article, then there is nothing wrong in the category Sikhs being there for him.  I am Adding the category  back to the cricket bio's, also request feedback is sought, or research is done (see Indian Muslim in cricketers above) BEFORE removing something. With reference to comment on "turbans being mentioned"-A Turban deos not mean a Sikh as people other than Sikhs can also wear turbans, AND Everyone in the world does not know that Sikh's wear a turban. and I thought wiki does look at being a resource for the world.Haphar 09:15, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sorry if I gave the implication that TURBAN = SIKH, as I am well aware that this is not the case. I was referring to the fact that there is a comment in the Harbhajan Singh article that he wears a turban due to his Sikh faith. I apologize for any hurtful generalisations, which were accidental on my part. As to my reference to WT:CRIC, User:Tintin1107, User:Srikeit and User:Nichalp, the only Indian bureaucrat, and thus the highest ranking Indian wikipedian so to speak, have all agreed that religion cats are not necessary for cricketers unless they also engage in religious activity in public life outside of sport, such as Imran Khan or Saeed Anwar.Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 02:32, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have given my logic on the  as to why it should be thereWT:CRIC. There is no discussion on the logic and just a decision by Blnguyen that he would remove the category. Might is right I guess even in wiki. Haphar 10:04, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[User:Haphar]] adding [[:Category:Sikhs]] 

message: This OR piece, similar to the recently deleted India bashing is up on Afd.Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 02:35, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[India Basher]] 

message: User:Joturner has merged the Indian current events into Current events in South Asia even after there was no consensus for the move. The events in India have been regularly updated in the last two months. And India deserves to have a seperate page. It is also an archive for the news that we display on the Portal:India. Can someone please talk to him and get the page back to where it was? - Ganeshk (talk) 04:06, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Reversion needed--Dwaipayan (talk) 07:03, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: DO you know how?? Bharatveer 07:50, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, it has been done by Joturner after Ganrshk contacted him.--Dwaipayan (talk) 08:19, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Indian current events 

message: Indian Peninsula is currently a redirect to India. This means, for instance, that the link given in the lead for the South India artice doesn't make sense. "Indian Peninsula" is clearly a geographic term that is not equivalent to "India" - shouldn't there be a proper article on it? Failing that, should the redirect not actually point to "South India"? TheGrappler 10:57, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, e.g., Peninsular India points to South India. Although more appropriate, the two entities are still not exactly the same -- Maharashtra, Orisa, etc are not covered in South India. deeptrivia (talk) 13:41, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Redirect to Deccan. — Ravikiran 14:05, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Have separate article for it.. The map given here gives its approximate boundaries. Indian Peninsula = Deccan + surrounding moutains + Coasts.--Raghu 14:35, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Indian Peninsula]] 

message: The article Kolim describes its subject as a now 18-year-old person who had a #1 hit in India and Bangladesh, along with a #1 hit in the BBC Asian Bengali charts. I can't verify this is true, but maybe I just don't know where to find the information. Is Kolim a real recording artist who has had the success he claims? --Metropolitan90 16:04, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I really do not know. But it is sure he did not have a number 1 sigle in India. I cant tell about Bangledash or UK.--Dwaipayan (talk) 07:02, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That article is nothing but self-advertisement.Bharatveer 07:40, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Kolim]] 

message: This article begs for our attention. Please discuss at Talk:Languages of India#Cleanup_2. -- Sundar \talk \contribs 08:28, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I left a comment there. Excellent topic to bring up, that could be a very interesting article to get some sources and start it right, almost from the ground up. - Taxman Talk 12:02, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added more. People, please participate in the discussion there. -- Sundar \talk \contribs 12:40, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Languages of India 

message: Hi all - might I draw the attention of y'all to ? Its a slightly serious issue that needs a common working-out I suppose. Rama's Arrow 14:07, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, it is really an interesting observation. In fact, IMO, it is a compliment. However, if someone avoids India-related FACs being "wary of commenting on India-related nominations for fear of being shot down", that's not healthy. Do we really sound such. Perhaps a non-Indian observer may comment, like Raul himself. After we talk about this here, Raul could be invited for comments. --Dwaipayan (talk) 14:29, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is most likely to be a case of demophobia , nothing else. Bharatveer 15:33, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I think the fellow is concerned on how Indian votes are "stacking the decks." The problem is, he doesn't realize that the Indian editors communicate and help each other out regularly on FA efforts. Since the wavelength there is cleared during peer review itself, the FAC results in high levels of support. If they observe WP:INWNB, they'll see this. They'll also see that people like Saravask, Sundar, Dwaipayan, Ambuj Saxena and Nichalp are tough critics - they don't say anything or vote on the bandwagon. Plus, non-Indian editors like Taxman, Spangineer and Ragib are regularly involved in FA drives on Indian subjects, and their criticisms are usually pretty quickly met. Rama's Arrow 16:37, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting point. In any case, FAC is not a typical poll in the sense that the difference between the number of support votes and that of oppose votes doesn't matter as much as the actual objections raised. In any case, to gain their confidence let's make sure that everyone of us who vote in the FACs have read a substantial portion of the text and we shall "substantiate" our vote. Well, to substantiate a "support" vote is kinda funny at an FAC, but we could state that it meets all FAC criteria, went through a good Peer Review etc., as we already do now. And when there's an objection, let's deal with it patiently and address it. Inviting (need not be overt) more users like Taxman, Ragib, Spangineer etc., could help, but that should be at the peer review stage itself. -- Sundar \talk \contribs 09:49, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Another option would be for some of us to participate in the FAC of non-Indian articles as well by commenting there. -- Sundar \talk \contribs 09:52, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't mind at these comments. India's performance on Wikipedia when it comes to producing great articles is very strong. Most of our supports are all with reason. Nobleeagle  (Talk) 10:15, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Who says I'm not Indian? :) Ok, I'm not, but still.  I do agree with much of what else has been said here that the process with articles you guys work on is very thorough, so there's not much worry that articles aren't among the very best. But at the same time people should be careful to not support unless they've thoroughly reviewed an article and how well it meets the criteria. The same goes for similar issues like RfA, etc. I think it's a fact of life that people may at times be softer on things they feel a connection with. If people make a modest effort to be aware of that and do their best to be objective, it's not a problem. - Taxman Talk 12:01, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: <grins> (Taxman knows why) =Nichalp «Talk»= 15:11, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Heh. At least it wasn't a username joke. But I was also thinking that almost every article could use some improvement, so suggested improvements on FAC and objecting if they are important would go a long way towards making everyone's votes appear more objective. - Taxman Talk 15:16, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

text: You certainly had me fooled, Taxman, if you are not Indian. Huccum you are able to contribute to hi: if you are not?? Pray tell. ImpuMozhi 15:49, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Because I started learning the language (originally on a lark after watching DDLJ with friends) and found it to be very interesting. And I wouldn't exactly say I'm contributing there, I'm not even really functional in the language yet. :) - Taxman Talk 17:16, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

text: In that case, you are a much better Indian than many of us, who find that contributing to the Wiki of our mother-tongues calls for more time n effort than we feel inclined to devote. Much as we may want to contribute. May the Force be with you!! Regards, ImpuMozhi 03:38, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Also the quite recent Indian architecture FAC. -Ambuj Saxena (talk) 11:25, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think his specific concern is about the articles that have come through the Indian review processes. I am pretty sure that we will shred apart articles that did not follow the process, as we should. Even if it is not true that we close ranks and get defensive about "our" articles, we should avoid giving the impression that we are doing so, because if it has the effect of putting off valuable feedback from others, it is a Bad Thing. — Ravikiran 07:14, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Interesting observation 

message: These two templates are on TFD because they are duplicates. Please decide which one has a better design.--May the Force be with you!  Shreshth91($ |-| ŗ 3 $ |-| ţ |-|) 08:06, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Template:User Kerala]] and [[Template:User KERALA wiki]] on [[WP:TFD]] 

message: Does anybody know what will be the copyright status of an image which has been cropped from the original.? Will it still remain copyrighted or can it be claimed as GFDL-self?--May the Force be with you!  Shreshth91($ |-| ŗ 3 $ |-| ţ |-|) 08:19, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh No! A copyrighted image will remain copyrighted. (No derivatives allowed clause) (PS FYI GFDL and CC-BY- images are copyrighted too). I'm not sure, but the correct procedure is to upload the original first and then the cropped photo over it. Please verify first. =Nichalp «Talk»= 08:40, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cropped image copyright 

message: Status of religious freedom in India was created as a link from Freedom of religion way back in March, 2005. The article is in a bad shape is an understatemnt! Please help making it at least somewhat respectable.--Dwaipayan (talk) 16:09, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Attention needed:[[Status of religious freedom in India]]

message: Please see this. - Aksi_great (talk) 16:18, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: He's bluffing, and I've called the bluff. =Nichalp «Talk»= 16:35, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you are right. His IP seems to be originating in the US. It is highly improbable that he has done what he says he has done. - Aksi_great (talk) 16:39, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The very fact that he claims to have informed the Govt of India shows his ignorance. =Nichalp «Talk»= 16:41, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We might have taken him seriously if he hadn't included that comment. As I commented over there, if Manmohan Singh or Rajnath Singh don't come along and join WikiProject Politics of India any time soon I'll assume its a bluff (this would be a POV Pushing disaster though) :). Nobleeagle  (Talk) 23:29, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Legal threats at Khalistan 

message: Can someone please please volunteer to maintain WP:DSI. It is very taxing to go through AFD. Whoever wants to maintain DSI may also want to have a look at WP:PROD entries as well. Thanks in advance, --Gurubrahma 07:42, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have updated the entries as of today and also ventured to revamp the format somewhat. It took several hours, unexpectedly! But I trust that in future, a few minutes a day will suffice to effect the necessary updates. ImpuMozhi 03:38, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks a ton, ImpuMozhi! I'll try to keep it updated as well. Hornplease 21:05, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Urgent & Important 

message: The article has gone through a lot of transformation during the past few days. Right now, the article's POV is disputed, and seems to contain a lot of OR. Badly in need of a clean up too. Please take a look. --  thunderboltza.k.a.Deepu Joseph |TALK 14:00, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Ayurveda]] 

message: In Great power, I've created a section that include pre-modern South Asian Great powers. Could some of those with more knowledge of history please have a quick look over the list and see whether any more need to be included/some need to be deleted. Thanks. Nobleeagle  (Talk) 06:30, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  South Asian Great powers 

message: What does Ekach Shatkar mean in Marathi ? Tintin (talk) 17:06, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, got it. 'One more six' Tintin (talk) 17:07, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No it means "Only one six" — Ravikiran 05:45, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. Tintin (talk) 11:50, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation 

message: Just saw on my watchlist that :Category:Hindu politicians has been re-created. Do we have to go through the entire CFD process again? Or is there any was to speedily delete categories? - Aksi_great (talk) 20:36, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've deleted it. Just inform user:Dangerous-Boy about the developments, and how we had had it deleted in the past. Thanks =Nichalp «Talk»= 02:41, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Category:Hindu politicians again 

message: Cinema of India is this week's Indian Colloboration of the Week.  Please come and help it become a featured-standard article. - Ganeshk (talk) 18:58, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  INCOTW - Cinema of India 

message: I've been working on Ladakh for a while, and now it's on peer review. Basically, I need suggestions on how to condense the article which has become very long. IMO, it's not very far from becoming an FA now, if size and style issues are sorted out. Any help will be highly appreciated :) deeptrivia (talk) 01:31, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Ladakh]] [[Wikipedia:Peer review/Ladakh/archive1|Peer Review]] 

message: The spelling of Hindi in Template:Wikipedialang which appears on the Main Page under Wikipedias having "More than 1,000 articles"; the spelling is "हिन्दी" (Hanidi) instead of Hindi. I don't know how to make it correct, so any other admin who has Hindi typing capabilities :), please correct it, or any other user just type it here and I will correct it myself. --May the Force be with you!  Shreshth91(review me!) 07:25, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This basically has to do with rendering See here - Lost 07:29, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So you mean that there is no problem in the spelling as such, but with the rendering in my computer.--May the Force be with you!  Shreshth91(review me!) 07:39, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thats right. The way to see the correct version is either enable indic text in your control panel or install the right font. They are explained in the link above. - Lost 07:52, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Incorrect spelling of ''Hindi'' on the Main Page 

message: Can someone add the Mizo spelling for Mautam? It's featured in . -- Sundar \talk \contribs 08:37, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mizo speakers here? 

message: I am seeing a lot of Indian editors contributing these days. I propose we create a new project INAID or Indian Article Improvement Drive similar to the main WP:AID. We can use the WP:INCOTW to nominate stubs and the INAID to nominate full length articles that need cleanup. For example, articles such as Hinduism and Ramayana currently nominated for INCOTW will go into INAID. This way stubs will never be neglected. AID could be fortnightly. Comments? - Ganeshk (talk) 00:17, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Great idea. There are many India articles which could be worked on, but often gets neglected. Those will be brought in attention.--Dwaipayan (talk) 10:44, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm for this one too. --  thunderboltza.k.a.Deepu Joseph |TALK 08:18, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

text: The current WP:INCOTW has got absolutely no edits since the tag was put up. I think we should not start initiatives that will not sustain. — Ravikiran 08:39, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes the current INCOTW has got no edits. But IMO this is exceptional. Nearly all previous INCOTWs got good edits. The last one (postal service) also got poor edits. Things would improve, hopefully.--Dwaipayan (talk) 08:43, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Indian Article Improvement Drive 

message: It's getting to boiling point with User:Holywarrior accusing Khatris of being the lowest of men and Sudra. The talk page is worse, very disogranized. Nobleeagle  (Talk) 06:39, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Khatri]] again