Talk:Hawthorne Heights/Archive 1

message: For the last time, listen to real emotive hardcore bands like Envy, Pageninetynine, After School Knife Fight, and then try and tell me this crap piece of a band is emotive hardcInsert non-formatted text hereore.               
just because there are more emo bands doesn't mean this band isn't emo.  seriously, singing about blacking out one's eyes, and killing oneself qualifies on my defintion for emo. Itachi1452 02:27, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Very Good Emo Band

message: Excuse me, but who messed up the page by adding this whole information into a table cell? I'm changing that now cause that's not supposed to be there. thank you. Erikkuiv 22:38, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There was an issue with the editing I'm not sure how to fix it can someone please try to edit that thank you. Erikkuiv 22:51, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Excuse me

message: Can any musicians explain to me how having three guitarists means they don't have to use pedals?  I understand the "no pauses" part, but I think the part about not using pedals was probably written by someone who doesn't quite understand guitar technique.  I could be wrong.4.225.95.12 06:18, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I changed it.  I think what they were talking about was one guitar would only play the distorted part, a second only play the clean parts, and a third more of an overdrive sound, therefore eliminating the need for one guitar to switch effects using a pedal.  But to me this is insignificant compared to the musical advantages to a third guitarist.  I still question the "unusualness" of this; Iron Maiden, Lynard Skynard, The Eagles, Pearl Jam, Sonic Youth, Radiohead, The Ataris, and Zwan are a few bands with three guitar players.  And any band that wants more guitarists can just hire more touring musicians.  Hoof Hearted 21:06, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Modified a bit more. I'm not a musician but I think HH is different than some of the bands you've mentioned, in that all 3 guitarists play distinct and easily identifiable parts. I suppose this is subjective, involving musical styles, but I think it's different than having a 3rd just for live shows, or having the 3rd play essentially a 2nd rhythm part, which may be slightly different but not musically significant. It's also different than having the vocalist occasionally pick up a guitar; I would consider Eddie Vedder and Thom Yorke vocalists rather than guitarists. Simishag 06:25, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  No pedals? 

message: I think the genre should be changed from Rock to Emo. I didn't change it because many bands (and fans) consider a slap in the face to be called emo, even though many fans aren't using it in a derogatory way anymore, so I want to know what your stance on it is.----SOAD_ROCKS
truely, they are emo. people who think thats so bad should shove it, because its true, and its not a bad thing. and whats with this "pussy-core" label on the site, some one explain what the hell that is?!?~emokid~
:That's called vandalism. I had just corrected it a moment ago. Any time you see vandalism, feel free to get rid of it, and make all our lives a little easier.
Hawthorne Heights isn't emo.  I like emo and I'm not saying its bad for Hawthorne Heights to be emo, but Hawthorne Heights is not Emotively Charged Hardcore Punk.
I'm not changing anything, but i think they are somewhere between pop- punk and emo-core. The pop- punk part would make sense because one of their influences is Green Day. On thier myspace here's what their genre says: Rock/ Post Hardcore/ Pop Punk. --Greendayrox 15:03, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Genre....Emo? 

message: "Hawthorne Heights isn't trying to promote the message that suicide is good, they think suicide is a very horrible act for someone to perform. They actually are just using metaphors."
This sounds a like someone trying to justify their favorite band. Perhaps it's true, but it shouldn't be said like this, and ciation should be provided. -Caligari_87
what....????? suicide......is....a....good.....thing....!!!!!!!
emo chick:(
----Emo Chick. You're a dumbass. Please shut up. For forever. You don't deserve to use a keyboard to type letters that may or may not string words together in a sentence that could possibly make coherent, if stupid, sense.
Emo is stupid. This band is stupid. Uniquity is stupid. Especially since, I'm pretty sure, that it isn't a word. Stop being pussies and just tell it like it is ; Hawthorne Heights is a cloned band with a cloned genre with a cloned sound with a cloned style that spreads the same cloned message. "I'm dark, I'm hurt, and I'm the only one who feels like this. Woe is me." Meatspinclock 02:36, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV interpretation 

message: "Hawthorne Heights is a post-hardcore/pop-punk band that formed on the beaches of Dayton, Ohio."
Hmmm....something just dosen't seem right about this line.  Could it be the fact that, while i live only 20 minutes away from Dayton, OH, i have never seen a single beach in this city?  I dont get it.
:It's called vandalism. SOADLuver 19:14, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Beaches?  In Southern Ohio?! 

message: I know, I know. Do something about it. Before I take initiative, I think we should all agree on one genre. Emochick, don't bother. You know nothing about emo. Emo is Emotive or Emotionally charged hardcore punk rock. This is definitely not punk rock. I was thinking of something along the lines of hardcore. Not hardcore punk, just hardcore.
:We all have certain perspectives on music's genre. I consider HH as emo, and you don't. Lots of people may differ, some may even say it's pop or whatever. I suggest we completely remove genres from Wikipedia articles as it is merely a perspevtival term, and not a fact. Also, I think very few artists stick to one genre. Adding genres to articles will only cause confusion and conflict due to everyone's different perception of it. --Adriaan90 07:13, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Emo? You're kidding... 

message: What? who is "emochick", why does she need to die, why are placing this on the page for Hawthorne Heights and who put this? can we find who this is and block them?
Oh yeah, are you sure that "Ohio Is For Lovers" was a top 40 hit, or "Saying Sorry"? I heard "Saying Sorry" on Top 40 radio, but it may have hit anywhere between #50 and #41. Billboard.com doesn't help me. 
Doc Strange -- 11:11, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Like, WTF? 

message: Not surprisingly this page is starting to get vandalised...
As taken today: "Most fans are 13 year old emo girls whom are posers and who want to fit in. They are one the worst bands ever."
I request partial restriction on the page.IAngelofFuryI 00:04, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: We definitley need a picture for this article--HurricaneRo 01:14, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pictures 

message: As they pretty much delve into this territory as well. 
And don't come into this suggestion with stupid genre purism.
If we can't define bands we like as the genres we want them to be, then why the hell should genres exist in the first place?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.214.52.186 (talk) 03:26, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: I think we also need to add Metal/ Post Hardcore/ Grindcore and Thrash tags to their genre list

message: Hawthorne Height is not, has never been, and will probably never be an emo/screamo-band. The reason? Just use your common sense guys, if you serioulsy consider them emo, you've evidently never listen to any emo music. Emo is, and will always be Emotional Hardcore, with the subgenre Screamo (where more emphazis is put in the screaming, although emo usually has a lot of screaming too). 
Try to compare Hawthorne Heights to bands such as A Fine Boat, That Coffin!, Usurp Synapse or Circle Takes The Square and you will notice that these guys (who play screamo) and Hawthorne Heights (who play pop rock) aren't even in the same league. 
If you still believe that Hawthorne Heights is what the emotional branch of hardcore music has turned into then you've never heard the origins of the genre either, or you just lack any sense of musical comprehension.
Then you will probably say something like "Oh, but we have sources!", yeah you probably do have sources, but they aren't liable at all. I mean come on! Rolling Stones magazine... they are among the guys who tried to misuse the emo-name in the first place, by labeling pop rock bands with it, so that they would profit from "something new that the kids will like", emo isn't "something new that the kids will like", emo is hardcore punk, with emotional touch and lyrics.
:See Archive 1. Nobody pays attention to these diatribes. Log in and/or write a book, and we'll start taking this kind of emo purism seriously. Chubbles 13:11, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: NEITHER EMO NOR SCREAMO!!

message: try reading some book before putting pen to paper.
:"try reading some book before putting pen to paper."
:Case in point.LafinJack 13:22, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article needs to be rewritten. who the fuck gave a five year old an internet connection? 

message: "The following September a judge ruled the band was still contractually obligated to Victory.[5]"
Maybe I'm missing something, but the source doesn't seem to back up the claim. 68.7.201.42 06:35, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone from OTRS already removed that statement. It's been replaced with better-sourced information. Chubbles 15:32, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Citation

message: just wanted to let anyone wondering know that i'm the one who put the links for the fansites on xanga and piczo on there. these are both my sites, so that's why they might look sort of the same. Greendayrox 22:04, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Links were removed per WP:EXT and WP:COI. Chubbles 07:11, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  external links 

message: the Modern Rock tracks and Hot Modern Rock Tracks are the same thing. i know what it says on AMG for Saying Sorry, but AMG sucks. well, i guess thats what id expect form the stupid fans of a stupid band. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.244.188.208 (talk) 01:37, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  You Guys are stupider than you look 

message: This has been the subject of some consternation beforehand; it's good that the Billboard.com chart history link has been linked to, but it conflicts with the information on Allmusic's site, which is also taken from Billboard. Since they're both coming from the same source, I'm not sure how to handle that...does Billboard publish these in print? I could try and look up the issue in which this appeared... Chubbles 20:59, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Update: I have access to back issues of Billboard on microfilm. I can look this up; it would help if anyone knew approximately what time of year the song hit the charts. Chubbles 21:10, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Update on update: I checked the microfilms, and Allmusic's designations are incorrect - the song did go to #7 on the Modern rock chart. Looks like I've been wrong all along. Fix coming in a sec - thanks for bringing a reference to light. Chubbles 22:43, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Chart positions

message: Emo died in the 90s
Hawthrone is a POP ROCK band.
Wiki should atleast be accurate. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.44.49.189 (talk) 04:57, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, we all have our opinions, and you're entitled to yours. But please don't go deleting genre designations when they're backed up with cited sources. Thanks. 
Chubbles 22:56, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  NOT EMO. 

message: I'm glad a few people want to share their views on the genre of this band while the rest of the fans who dont give a damn about your ridiculous conforming opinions will call them eMo.
you guyts are dumb as fuck hawthorne heights is so EMO!!! slit my wrists and black my eyes i mean seriously they aRE  as pussy aS IT GETS MAN....AND JUST TO LET ALL YOU LITTLE FAGGETS KNOW THAT DUDE WHO DIED KILLED HIMSELF BECAUSE HE WAS SUCKING THE LEAD SINGERS DICK OFF....AND HIS STOMACH HAD TO BE PUMPED FROM ALL THE SEMAN HE INJESTED,,,,,HE LIVED THROUGH THIS BUT WORD GOT OUT SO HE THEN KILLED HIMSELF ON HIS TOUR BUS BECAUSE HE REALIZED HOW GAY HE WAS AND COULD NEVER CHANGE.....  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kirkastheysay (talk • contribs) 04:31, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Amazing 

message: I'm not gonna get into the debate over whether or not Hawthorne Heights are emo, because there are enough reliable sources who cite them as such that the genre warrants inclusion in the genre list. However, I don't think they should be described as an emo band in the opening paragraph, as they are first and foremost a post-hardcore band. Having them labelled as emo in the opening paragraph could be very misleading towards those who don't consider them emo, so I'm going to change this. James25402 10:06, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Primary genre is post-hardcore 

message: yup they are emo listen to it they sound emo they look emo they probably smell emo they are emo just accept it. emo wasn't even around in the 90's whoever the dipshit that said that it died in the 90's is.
no emo has been around siece the 80s
the 80s had the fist wave with rites of spring, embrace, etc
the 90s had the 2nd wave with, Fugazi, The Get Up Kids, etc
and the 2000s is the 3rd wave with your typical Fall Out Boy, Hawthorne Heights, etc
so shut up you dont know what your talking about no body knows what the hell their talking about look at the page Emo (music) before you start with you HH is/isn't emo arguments
There's no need to continue with this. The genres are sourced so there is no means of changing it. Razorblade666 01:19, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Emo 

message: Hawthorne heights is a pop punk band, who agrees? they are not primarily post hardcore, but pop punk. They were Emo with screamo, but the screamo element is not as important to the music now, so i'd say pop punk, and there has to be some hardcore, to be considered Post hardcore, which HH are not, so what do you think?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.38.65.47 (talk) 11:19, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, seriously. Please stop changing genres on band pages. You are being very disruptive, and your contributions are not making this a more accurate or a more informative encyclopedia. Cite your sources, or your edits will be reverted every single time. Chubbles (talk) 17:59, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pop punk 

message: There is a song on youtube writen by Hawthorne Heights, as a tribute to Casey. The song can be veiwed at youtubeit is called When 5 becomes 4.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chaplain mos (talk • contribs) 13:02, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's called "For Become One", it's track 7 on Fragile Future, lyrics: "we will always have each other/just like it was from the start/when five becomes four/and when for becomes one/you're not just passing on/you're passing on all the fun we had/you made us laugh/we only cried but once". That's the chorus anyway. Should be added at some point in the article. This article needs a total overhaul, it makes no sense, there's more on their incidents than their music - when the music is the reason why the article is notable. kiac (talk) 08:19, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  song about Casey 

message: Some of the things on this wikipedia page reporting his death are being stated as fact.
No where has their been confirmation of asthma or a blood clot- even to the point of the band themselves granting an interview to MTV and openly saying Casy HAD NO asthma issues.
This page needs some serious cleanup.  There shouldn't be any editing allowed until we know the full, OFFICIAL cause of death of Casey Calvert.
He doesn't deserve rumors flying about him on the internet.  There was enough disrespect to the band while he was alive, let's not fuel the fire with false claims.
76.177.43.7 17:47, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If there is enough well-sourced material on the life and career of Casey Calvert, perhaps someone would write a full Wikipedia article about him? At this point attempts to add him to deaths lists on Wikipedia will be blocked. An article on any individual added is needed to prevent Wikipedia from becoming a memorial site for everyone who dies. If an article can be written to conform to NPOV, sourcing and notability standards this will no longer be an issue. DoktorDec (talk) 11:25, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

text: But nobody is asking you? WP:NMUSIC. kiac. (talk-contrib) 14:01, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

text: Well, no. The degree to which regular Wikipedians disregard the truth is rather staggering; we do have a responsibility to report the truth. However, there is no such thing as truth for genre designations; they are matters of opinion and opinion alone. Honestly, in cases where genres are disputed, I would prefer that no genre be listed, but damned if I'll ever get a consensus on that one. Chubbles (talk) 20:22, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Casey 

message: It is interesting to see, what genres bands could be categorized.
The sources for the "screamoband Hawthorne Heights" are stupid. 
I mean, what is yahoo? isn't it a just normal newsportal with mainstream information and no knowlegde in underground music? So what is this for a serious source? it isn't.
"Allmusicguide" can be used only sometimes, too, because of the sometimes wrong information.
* referring to above paragraph
underground music? no, hawthorne heights is a mainstream band which has a mainstream label, it is not underground in the slightest, bands who play shows in clubs for 50-100 people and have a low popularity are underground, not a band playing stadiums......and i think yahoo knows the score, its fucking yahoo for christ sake
Also when you compare the musical style of screamo: Mosty screaming; mid-tempo D.C. Hardcore, with  short (sometimes spoken) emotional parts; aggressive, chaotic screaming parts, it compares in some way with Grindcore; no Chorus, no order in the songs; Sounds like Funeral Diner, Orchid or Saetia. I don't think, this band is like that!
Mc-Ralph (German Wikipedia)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.75.76.34 (talk) 15:34, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, no. The degree to which regular Wikipedians disregard the truth is rather staggering; we do have a responsibility to report the truth. However, there is no such thing as truth for genre designations; they are matters of opinion and opinion alone. Honestly, in cases where genres are disputed, I would prefer that no genre be listed, but damned if I'll ever get a consensus on that one. Chubbles (talk) 20:22, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  This band doesn't belong to Emo and Screamo 

message: Why doesnt JT scream for the band?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thrice34 (talk • contribs) 14:33, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  JT scream