Talk:Fettuccine Alfredo

message: This is a work in progress. Please be patient. Any help, ehem, thickening-up the "In American culture" section would be appreciated. Cheers, Cl3phact0 (talk) 09:44, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re-drafting, balancing, and copy editing (based on comments above) 

message: One of our references (Barry Popik – which may itself be non-RS) contains a goldmine of possible references. There is also some interesting information about US "Alfredo's" restaurants that may have a direct link to the Roman one(s) in places like Rockefeller Center (1970s and 1980s), as well as some information about "Fettuccine Alfredo" trademarks (apparently abandoned in 2001), etc. These sources may be useful in understanding the events and timelines that led to this dish becoming a ubiquitous staple of Italo-American cuisine.
Adding the references and trademark info here for ease of viewing (less the large blocks of possibly copyvio text, the 2009 WP cut and paste, etc.).:
Southern Italy: Including Rome, Sicily, and Sardinia
By Findlay Muirhead, Luigi Vittorio Bertarelli, Consociazione turistica itailana, Touring club italiano
Edition: 2
Published by Macmillan and co., ltd.
1925
Pg. 4:
...d’ Alfredo, 104 a, Via della Scrofa, noted for fettuccine al burro;...
   
So You’re Going to Rome!
by Calara E. Laughlin
Boston, MA: Houghton Mifflin Company
Copyright, 1925 and 1928
Pg. 351:
Most travellers would blush to admit they had been in Rome and had not eaten Alfredo’s fettucine al burro, a sort of macaroni with butter, which has netted Alfredo both fame and fortune. Alfredo is at 104 Via della Scrofa. [NB: Added to article on 25/4/24.]
     
6 May 1927, Cumberland (MD) Evening Times, pg. 6, cols. 2-3:
Knighted For His Spaghetti
How Alfredo Mixes Titled Fettuccine
(Photo Caption: “Alfredo di Lelio mixing fettuccine for a patron.”)
By ALICE ROHE
NEA Service Special Correspondent
Rome, May 6.—All the world knows that spaghetti is the reigning idsh in Italy. But what the world does not know perhaps is that the reigning king of Italy has knighted the owner of a little restaurant in Rome as the best spaghetti maker in the world. [NB: Added to article.]
 
8 June 1929, Modesto (CA) News-Herald, “Rector’s Recipes” by George Rector, pg. 10, col. 1:
I AM going to give a recipe to-day for noodles Alfredo, as prepared by Alfredo himself in his tiny restaurant in Rome, Italy. The act of mixing the butter and cheese through the noodles becomes quite a ceremony, and as busy as Alfredo is with other duties he manages to be at each table when the waiter arrives with the platter of “fettuccine” to be mixed by him.
 
Noodles Alfredo
Cook noodles in boiling salted water for twnety minutes. Drain in colander and hold under cold water to separate, then hold under hot water to reheat. Drain, place noodles on a large, hot platter, sprinkle top with grated Parmesan cheese and add three lumps of butter about the size of a small egg. Now take a large spoon and a fork and lift noodles from platter until butter and cheese are thoroughly blended with the noodles. Alfredo spends at least seven minutes blending the butter and cheese through the noodles. [NB: Added to article 8/5/24.]
 
3 June 1932, Indiana (PA) Evening Gazette, “How to Eat Spaghetti” by George Rector, pg. 15, col. 4:
The best form of pasta is fettuccine, and some of the best fettuccine is published by Alfredo, Cavaliera della Corona d’Italia. Alfredo doesn’t make fettuccine. He doesn’t cook it. He achieves it.
 
I could go on for hours, painting the picture of Alfredo achieving his fettuccine. The ritual is as solemn and as breath taking as the majestic sight of the sun sinking over mountain tops. Rich calm beauty, and a deep promise of what is to come, plus an indefinable mystery. Yes, I know I’m waqxing poetic, but I stand my ground. Alfredo’s fettuccine is poetry.
 
10 December 1939, New York (NY) Herald Tribune This Week magazine, pg. 11, col. 3:
Finally there is the recipe for spaghetti (Col. 4—ed.) which Mr. Morro got from the famous Alfredo in Rome. It’s a very simple one but a great favorite among distinguished gourmets visiting Rome. We call it Alfredo’s Spaghetti [NB: Added to article 8/5/24.]
1 package (8 oz.) spaghetti
1/4 cup butter
1/4 cup grated cheese
Cook spaghetti in boiling, salted water according to directions on package. While hot dot generously with butter; turn until butter is melted. Sprinkle with grated cheese. Yield 4-6 servings.
 
28 February 1951, Uniontown (PA) Evening Standard, “He Meets His First King” by Henry McLemore, pg. 4, col. 2:
ROME—I met my first king last night.
(...)
This jiggling monarch of 70 years of age was Alfredo the First, King of the Noodles, or in Italian, “Il Vero Re Delle Fettuccine.”
 [NB: Added to article.]
 
29 March 1956, Moravia (Iowa) Union, pg. 4, col. 6:
Last week we had fettuccine al Alfredo, which was described on some program by a chef just oof the plane from Rome—he even brought his own cheese—and then we had cherries jubilee for dessert. [NB: Added to article 8/5/24.]
 
26 June 1957, New York (NY) Times, "Food; Three Restaurants" by June Owen, pg. 48:
Fettuccine Alfredo, originated at the famous Alfredo’s in Rome, is another specialty ($1.65). The flat, noodlelike pasta is served with lots of butter and grated Parmesan cheese. [NB: Added to article on 25/4/24.]
   
10 April 1964, Oakland (CA) Tribune, Pg. D35, col. 5 ad:
FETTUCCINE ALFREDO…1.50 [NB: Added to article on 25/4/24.]
 
(Trademark)
Word Mark THE ORIGINAL FETTUCCINE ALFREDO SINCE 1914
Goods and Services (ABANDONED) IC 030. US 046. G & S: Pre-cooked, non-frozen and semi-fresh fettuccine seasoned with sauce; fresh fettuccine; and dried fettuccine
Mark Drawing Code (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS
Design Search Code 02.09.11 - Humans engaged in other work; Humans, including men, women and children, depicted engaged in other work
05.15.02 - Laurel leaves or branches (borders or frames); Wreaths
08.13.01 - Macaroni; Noodles; Pasta; Spaghetti
11.01.25 - Brushes, basting; Chopsticks; Churns, butter (manual); Cups, measuring; Fruit juices, non-electric; Garlic presses (non-electric); Graters, cheese; Holders, kitchen utensil; Ice cube trays; Juicers, non-electric; Ladles (soup); Measuring cups; Napkin holders; Other non-electric kitchen utensils, utensil holders; Pasta makers, non-electric; Potato peelers; Racks, kitchen tool; Scoops, ice cream; Shakers, cocktail; Sharpeners, knife (non-electric)
12.01.07 - Billiard tables; Cabinets, cabins; Coffee tables; Conference tables; Dressing tables; End tables; Folding tables; Game tables; Nightstands; Picnic tables; Table tennis tables; Table, computer; Tables; Tables, pool
24.07.07 - Prize ribbons; Ribbons, prize
Serial Number 75643879
Filing Date February 18, 1999
Current Filing Basis 1B
Original Filing Basis 1B
Published for Opposition March 21, 2000
Owner (APPLICANT) MOZZETTI, MARIO INDIVIDUAL ITALY Via Conca d’Ore, 329 00141 Rome ITALY
(APPLICANT) ALFREDO ALLA SCROFA S.N.C. Mario Mozzetti, Italian citizen, and Elisabetta Salvatori, a Italian citizen PARTNERSHIP ITALY Via della Scrofa 104 00186 Rome ITALY
Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Attorney of Record Anthony P. Venturino
Disclaimer NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE “THE ORIGINAL FETTUCCINE ALFREDO” and “SINCE 1914” APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN
Description of Mark The mark consists in part of the design of a man seated at a table and twirling pasta. The lining in the drawing is a feature of the mark and does not indicate color.
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator DEAD
Abandonment Date November 21, 2001 Cl3phact0 (talk) 09:48, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible useful sources 

message: Well – out of the Italo-American pasta pack, Alfredo is running neck and neck with Lasagna for first prize (a set Gold steak knives). -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 17:38, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Hahaha. I assure you it had something to do with an insidious capitalist campaign on TikTok, probably related to the popularity in the US of Michaelangelo's 3 cheese baked ziti, or perhaps their baked ziti and meatballs.;-) Carlstak (talk) 18:19, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Fascinating. Thank you for the reference. Not surprisingly, Mr. Angelo makes a Chicken Alfredo with Broccoli (which is, of course, "inspired by Italian traditions"). Perhaps the Sauce section of our article could be expanded to include other "Alfredo" formats (i.e., TV Dinners, etc.). -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 19:44, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmmm, that might be useful, but it could really open a Pandora's box, I fear.;-) Carlstak (talk) 00:17, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Judging by the laudable (if not somewhat improbable) attention that the subject has garnered, it seems that nonno Alfredo has already well and truly blown the lid off of Pandora's box. -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 11:27, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why it matters? 

message: Our Carnacina & Buonassisi reference leads to two articles that we might want to add to enwiki: 1) ; 2)  (I'll add them to my list, though it might take a while before I get to these). -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 21:45, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. JacktheBrown (talk) 11:23, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Adding  (one of our 1920s references) to the above suggestions. [NB: Trecciani says: È stato il vero apostolo del turismo in Italia  (which in retrospect may damn him for eternity, but he's clearly WP:N regardless).] -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 10:37, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  
Two
 ''Three'' possible new articles (suggestion) 

message: this reference you're proposing, since the title says "il piatto più buono del mondo", , in my opinion should be removed; too subjective. JacktheBrown (talk) 23:20, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: The Repubblica piece does support a number of claims that are made in our article (as well as adding some nuance and detail). Thought it might be of some use to someone at some point. It's only here on the Talk page, not in the article itself – however, if you feel that it couldn't possibly be of any use to anyone in future (due to the wording of the title), by all means, remove it. Cheers, Cl3phact0 (talk) 09:50, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: There is nothing in WikiPedia policy that prevents us from reporting on subjective opinions. In fact, Wikipedia:Neutral point of view says that we should report "all the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic". Of course, we should not treat these opinions as "truth" but rather be sure to contextualize them. --Macrakis (talk) 10:17, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference: https://roma.repubblica.it/cronaca/2024/02/07/news/fettuccine_alfredo_compleanno_116_anni-422080672/ 

message: The two long quotes are now both in  format. This made sense for two reasons: 1) Consistency; 2) Mobile device readability. (Also, the first has been slightly trimmed and a portion brought into the text body, which I've just noticed that I failed to note in the edit summary.) Cheers, Cl3phact0 (talk) 20:36, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Long quotes 

message: The illustration with caption "Ristorante Alfredo menu, 1920s" is copied from the restaurant's web site. I see no evidence that this menu cover is from the 1920s. It appears on the page  which is about the "origins" of fettuccine Alfredo, and has several undated photos, most of them clearly from later. Nowhere does it give a date for this menu cover. To my eye, the design of the menu doesn't look like it's from the 1920s, but I'm no specialist on the design of menus in Italy in the 1920s! --Macrakis (talk) 16:17, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: For Commons discussion re: source and permissibility of images, please see: Commons:Village pump/Copyright#Alfredo Di Lelio. Perhaps this should have been included earlier when adding the images (as the topic does seem to attract a fair bit of controversy). As for the timeframe, I'm comfortable with 1920s for the menu and teens for the photo of De Lelio (per multiple sources where these images can be found, such as this). I'll dig around a bit more too. -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 21:26, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

text: PS:  If you're not comfortable with the "1920s" date in the caption, we could expand the range ("1920s or 1930s") or just remove the date until it can be confirmed with a better source. -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 07:24, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I wasn't reopening the permissions issue, just pointing out the lack of evidence for the date in the original source. I suggest we remove the date until we have a decent source. --Macrakis (talk) 08:53, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Menu image

message: Well spotted! I hadn't noticed that Dorrance Publishing Company was a vanity press (duped by the ISBN number). The sub-title of the book in question summarises the central point that countless multitudes have tried to raise on this very Talk page over the years that I didn't think to dig deeper (emphasis is mine):
Preserving it here for the record. -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 17:09, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I haven't read the book, but it is strange that he groups Caesar salad with the other two. As far as I know, no one claims that Caesar salad was ever part of Italian cuisine. As far as we can tell, it was invented by an Italian restaurant owner in Mexico. And I don't think it's particularly associated with Italian-American cuisine. In fact, the only reference to Italy in our Caesar salad article is in the origin of the inventor, and the Italian-American cuisine article doesn't mention Caesar salad. Sure, it's served in Italian-American restaurants, but it's also served in almost every other American restaurant as well. --Macrakis (talk) 14:31, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of WP:RSSELF ref 

message: McDonald's has its own 'Italian' dishes that originated in Italy, and unlike Alfredo, these are served all across Italy. Does that mean McDonald's 'Italian' food is genuinely Italian?
While Alfredo sauce has Italian influences and Roman origins, it cannot be considered a traditional Italian dish, just as many McDonald's items can't be genuinely Italian either. IlEssere (talk) 17:39, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  If Alfredo is Italian Food, so is McDonald’s Italian dishes?