Talk:Leet/Archive 4

message: The title of the Daft Punk video, Interstella 5555: 5tory of the 5ecret 5tar 5ystem, has leet in it. Should it be put with the examples?
:IMO It's not leet, merely a typographical play on the movie's title. 24.208.61.65 08:24, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Interstella 5555

message: You may have noticed that Leet has undergone some pretty dramatic changes under some of the headings.
*I did my best to make everything sound encyclopedic.
*I boiled the over-stylized examples down to just their roots (e.g. for the pwn heading, pwn3d → pwned—The 3 only bogged down the example) so that nothing got in the way of their meaning.
*I got rid of a bunch of game references (lots of WoW **censored**).
*Removed a bunch of pointless topic expansions and extraneous examples
*Removed some unfounded claims and requested citations for others.
*Swapped some grammar and spelling sections around, because they were in the wrong section.
*Many other changes.
Hopefully most of you approve of the changes. I will be keeping a close eye on this article, as it seems to attract a lot of bilge.
The only thing I didn't go over were the lists of links at the bottom of the article.
Is it clean? Can we get rid of the clean-up heading?
—Ragdoll 14:06, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Since there have been no objections for 10 days, I'm going to be bold and remove the clean-up notice. Please, though, continue to remember that removing information may be just as valuable as adding information. —Ragdoll 19:32, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  I cleaned it up 

message: isn't it kind of impossible to cite sources for comments like "some ppl spek lyk3 dis?" this kind of thing cannot be proved by officially recognized sources, and I'm under the impression that these kind of sentences don't really need to be proved; they should be already understood to be true.
"Some wrongly believe that the origin involved using a dynamic cipher, so that only experienced users would be privy to the message"
someone reply how these kind of sentences can be given a citation.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shadowxling (talk • contribs) 19:42, September 18, 2006.
:Find the study that talks about peoples' misunderstandings about the origin of Leet and create a citation for it. Otherwise, it may be better to opt to get rid of the statement altogether. —Ragdoll 17:02, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  cleanup / citing sources 

message: An anoymous user added a link to this site under the Similar and related dialects section. I'm in two minds as to whether or not it's notable enough for mention. Any comments? Crimson Shadow 16:35, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I deleted the linkspam, though I don't know what Zero is itself. If it's notable enough to be included, it won't be pointing to a freewebs page. —Ragdoll 16:48, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Notable?

message: I'm hesitent to delete the Ask.com logo, just because I don't know if it's part of a joke they played, like Google often does with their logo on certain holidays. It's really ugly and ametureish, and I debate its neccesity, after Google's page is seen translated into Leet.
Do we need another search engine translation as an image?
Plus, it has no copyright information attached.
—Ragdoll 22:10, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ask.com logo 

message: My image is not unrelated. Take a look at the time the clocks are displaying. JIP | Talk 07:53, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm unclear as to how a coincidence is relevant to the variety. —Ragdoll 22:10, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

text: It's not unrelated, but does it add anything to the article?  It might be fun on Fark or the like, "Hay guyz, look at these 'l33t' microwaves.  But this is Wikipedia, how does this educate other people on what 1337 is?" --Trafficone 11:04, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image 

message: There are pictures from Sociological considerations to The Leet cipher and syntax. Ain't that a bit too much, pictures even cover a part of table. 217.159.163.220 18:12, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. I chose to remove this one because personalized license plates can be anything. --Sbluen 18:08, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I agree. —Ragdoll 18:07, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too much leet & 1337 refences? 

message: Is it of any significance that 1337 is divisible only by 7 and 19? 1337 is a fun number to run across irl.
Isnt it also divisable by 1? or 1337? also you have written 19? (is that supposed to represent 191? becuse it doesnt seem to divide by 19-with a whole number result)?
---
~ I actualy just added 1 + 3 + 3 = 7 to the page. 
69.223.46.15 10:43, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  1337 The Numb3r 

message: Definitely do not merge. Leet is different from general internet slang. Slang includes txt-tlk/SMS/hacker jargon and more. Internet slang is the over-arching group, while Leet is an offshoot. It's like merging mammal into dog. —Ragdoll 05:26, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That relationship needs to be clearer in the articles then -- especially since people keep adding Leet to the List_of_Internet_slang. --Renice 14:18, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I agree. Don't merge. That would be like merging English and language. -hac 74.94.133.33 21:13, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge 

message: The name of this "language" is 1337 not Leet. Shouldn't this article bear the same name? 132.203.54.67 23:46, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably not not seeing as 1337 is already a page for the year 1337.  I think that the article does a good enough job of explaining the difference between "leet" and "1337" and their employment in the system that it will not easily confuse. --Rtrev 01:45, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move to 1337? 

message: There's no subheading for "O Noes" and it's variants... Totema1 02:11, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Find the relevant sources and add it, then. —Ragdoll 23:44, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  No ONOZ? ONOZ! 

message: ZOMG currently stands for "Zombies Oh My God"  AcronymFinder.com.  Someone should address the section "Over-exclamation and other emphasis" and determine whether ZOMG started as a misskeyed Shift press, or started as a stronger form of OMG.
:Huh? It's just a twisted 'omg'. Also, 'whoamg'. I thought everyone knew that...--Falos 20:23, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That might be more appropriate in SMS language or internet slang. Acronyms are not Leet. —Ragdoll 23:17, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OMG is an acronym and it's in this article. --Brain 03:16, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ZOMG 

message: The article mentioned several sources for Leet, but not numeric pager code — here referring not to number→message tables, but to the practice of spelling out English words using the blocky LED/LCD numbers turned upside down to represent letters, e.g. 07734 → hELLO. This is why 1337 → LEET: the 7 is not T, but an upside-down L. This is also why the word ELITE isn't used; in 31173 the doubled 1 would be unclear (TT? II? IT? TI?).  – SAJordan talkcontribs 09:05, 9 Nov 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: that's preety stupid --216.244.232.6 03:14, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Legacy of numeric pager code 

message: I added a section for -&, as I know I've seen it in use, mainly among message and image boards. I don't have a decent source for it, so if anyone could dig one up, that would be swell. If it is uncitable, and you'd prefer to remove it, I have no objection.
---
~ That definatly needs to stay 69.223.46.15 10:39, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added section for -& 

message: I heard that it originated from hackers during an FBI operation to catch hackers. Supposedly from Urban Dictionary, it was meant to confuse the agents as a cipher language (as was stated in the article) . Clarifaction? The velociraptor 23:06, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  UrbanDoctionary is about as reliable a source as well... Wikipedia :)
I won't put this in the article itself since I have no sources to back it up, but I'll put it here in case it inspires anyone to dig out their old printouts (or ask Randy Ubillos, who ought to remember a thing or two himself :-). It might make a good addition to the article.
The use of digits and punctuation to obfuscate text on BBSs was inspired by the use of "Apple ][" in place of "Apple II". Apple BBS users in the late 1970s and early 1980s began using constructions such as "/\/\" for the letter M, especially in the names of these BBSs.
As the article notes, these BBSs used the word "elite" to refer to users with greater experience in hacking or a larger collection of pirated software, and this term was converted progressively to "ELEET" and "31337". This became "leet" or "1337".
10:25, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origins of 1337 

message: The IT Crowd DVDs have just shipped -- with subtitles in leet! The IT Crowd is a convulsively funny British TV show about sysadmins, created by Graham Linehan, who is best known for writing the classic show Father Ted.
The IT Crowd's first six episodes ran last year on Channel 4, and was widely shared online, resulting in major commercial success, critical acclaim, and a renewed contract for another season of the show.
I was privileged to consult a little on the show, and I was able to connect Graham with uber-geek Yoz Grahame, who suggested that the disc carry subtitles in leet (or 1337), the letter/number substitution code used by gamers, hackers and other net-dwellers.
The disc is region-locked to Europe, but I hear that a US version is coming shortly. Link (Thanks, Damien!) 
SkippyUK 23:56, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  1337 in Media 

message: new user here...
i found one little typo i would suggest changing.
under the section Common Transliterations, there is a note at the bottom of the chart with a '*' symbol. However, some of the letters (in the heading) are not appropriately marked with the '*'.
Those letters are: Y, Q, G, P
(is this where i'm supposed to submit this???)
Nathandiehl 19:34, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Teh section on -xor needs some work. Mainly teh -izzle and -xor area's. "In the phrase "rock your b0x0rz," b0x0rz refers to boxers (i.e. underwear) but might refer to boxes" b0x and s0x both refer to computers - b0x (b0xXx0r, b0x3s and otehr variations) all refer to teh pc itself, this is a hacker slang, it has nothing to do with underwear or sexual innuendo. s0x (s0xXx0rz) refer to sockets. '|20x><x0®3|) j00z |30x3z' generally refers to destroying your opponents inferior machine(figurative or literal). '|20x><x0®3|) j00z |30x' and insult due to an assault on an opponent resulting in a disconnect(hacker slang) or total annihilation of a user in a game'n match. has nothing to do with rocking teh socks or your opponent feet. -izzle, as far as i have seen is NOT an accepted suffix to leet speak, it's one of those things that new leeters attempted to merge with leet but really never sunk in. i will do what i can to find reference to these issues for further exploration(||stoney|| 04:38, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  proposed edit 

message: The i in naive only has one dot over it. This isn't French. 198.111.39.24 17:38, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, I'm pretty sure it's double-dotted. Just like how Pokémon has the thingy above the e. Crimson Shadow 17:48, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Both spellings are correct. See Wiktionary's entry on "naïve", and on "naive". (Each lists the other as an alternate spelling.) – SAJordan talkcontribs 07:06, 29 Nov 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spelling of naive 

message: Is 1337 a constructed language or a naturally evolved language of a culture (online gamers)?  I think it contains elements of both. And if it is a mix it should be mentioned in the list of constructed languages.--Exander 00:51, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would argue that it is not a language at all. In some aspects it is jargon (the added words), in other aspects it is cipher (existing words disguised), but these are used within existing languages such as English or Russian. – SAJordan talkcontribs 01:36, 4 Dec 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've been watching a small trend slowly grow in teh 1337 realm. It's something thats been going on for a long time but just recently has become popular among allot of IRC users and few gamers. Leet speakers are using "extended" versions of abbreviated phrases, lol become el oh el, brb is now bee are bee and so on. I myself have used these forms of speak as a joke on people who ACTUALLY say LOL(el oh el) outloud in spoken conversation, too much time i chat i think they spend... yessss, but it seems this is also accepted in some places as a form of non-direct leet speak. A form of a taunt for those who are noobish maybe? This is one form of how leet "evolves" as people create new entries into its cypher. So you can say leet evolves from users constructive input, some trends take hold and others do not.(||stoney|| 01:39, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Constructed Language? 

message: It seems a version of VLC media player has been translated into leet speak. May be a good example of its pervasiveness (or use one of the screenshots as topic image?)
http://download.videolan.org/pub/videolan/vlc/0.8.1337/
Quoth the changelog :]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
r10493 | d|0n034 | 2005-03-31 23:23:36 +0200 (j3u, 31 M4r 2005) | 2 1|n35
 * 5m411 F|x35 (d4 |(0n (h4n63 5H0u1d n0W w0rk und0R W|nd0W5)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
15:30, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Leet in software 

message: I remember an old Aliens Trilogy game for Genesis and other consoles having a cheat code, namely "1g0tp1nk8c1d800t50n". Could that go under an example of L33t? 88.107.92.4 22:21, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  I got Pink Acid Boots On 

message: Please consider this picture for inclusion in the article. This one is not contrived or created by people that are computer literate, but rather is a use of the word "leet" in a normal context, and so may be more appropriate for encyclopedic inclusion. --HanClinto 20:10, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Is the road named after the cipher, or is it just a coincidence? —Ragdoll 18:52, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's just a country road out in the middle of nowhere, between Niles and Edwardsburg in Michigan. I'm pretty sure that the road was there long before the cipher came into use (so it is, as you say, a coincidence). This picture was taken at the intersection of Leet Rd. and US 12. --HanClinto 19:36, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another possible picture 

message: It should probably be mentioned that a common alternate spelling of "uber" is "00ber" or "00b3r".
---
~ First I've ever heard of that 69.223.46.15 10:37, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: g00b3r l33t.  00ber is just another noobish attempt and leetness. uber has almost always been one word that is presented in its proper form, with at teh most teh addition of -age or -ness( uberage uberness). g00ber l33t, a somewhat dead and rare term was just about teh only variation of uber i have seen in 1337 history. It was just a basic insult on those who thawt they were "uber cool".(||stoney|| 04:52, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uber 

message: The artist Pink usually spells her name as "P!nk", as well as her album "M!zzundaztood" I haven't added it in the article, but I thought it needs a mention. 88.107.26.105 12:29, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's not 1337, its 1337 if you use the word "one" instead of an "i", as in "Ponenk" or "Monezzundaztood".  lrn21337. 12.41.40.20 18:53, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another example of Leet: 

message: This article is so fucking 1337. 12.41.40.20 18:50, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good work 

message: This article is vandalised quite a bit; do you think we should be thinking about semi-protection? Or is it not vandalised enough? Crimson Shadow 20:44, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's semi protected for now; hopefully the vandalism may tone itself down and we can remove the tag and have it be okay, but for now it is appropriate. -- Natalya 03:48, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism

message: I added another creation theory for pwned, that a Warcraft mapmaker misspelled owned in his ending message. I dont know if it should stay or not. My source was b.net chatrooms and wikipedia...
Toothturtle 23:02, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's the theory I've heard too, so I think it should stay. --Brain 03:22, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Theories

message: zoorz and zor is making fun of noobs who are trying to use leet. saying something like "oh i just pwnzorzd you" is making fun of a noob who thinks that hes good. and people dont write whole sentances in leet theyll right a couple letters anything else and your a noob trying to use leet. This article has alot wrong like someone who says omg!!!11 is a noob ones after exclimation marks is like your wetting your pants in excitment and no one likes to see that. leet is used as emphasis mostly + most of those things like gom as omg is just plain misspelling or somekid trying to make his own little addition to leet so another thing is this article cant be written on second hand sources i dont know what their called becuase the people that write those are the noobs and most of the people who will give you information on it are the noobs about 1 in a hundred people who "know leet" arent noobs. so i know that this article cant bet completly correct ever but i want to correct some things that are just plain wrong. like this sentance in the grammer section "OMFG D00d Bob is t3h UBER 1337 R0XX0RZ LOL"
shouldnt have the lol at the end roxxorz is used by noobs leet is still called leet people dont use 1337 in a sentance if their describing something as leet they use leet or l33t 1337 is something everyone knows but no one really says uber is like a joke teh its own word a 3 dosent belong in it dood is misspelled no one says dood unless they not only a noob but are also uncool and finally omfg most people immdiatly dislike you when you shout swear words so dont start a sentance with them. in leet bob rocks would probably just change to something like bob pwns. also never capitalize anything if its not important or you become a caps spammer. there IS a diffrence between leet and noob leet. and a person who knows leet genrally dosent have to worry about getting shot while typing becuase its whole purpose is to shorten how much you have to type and most of them can type faster then they can talk.
newbie = just plain new its not their fault, newb = new and annoying, noob = not new but not good, n00b = insult they not new so they have no excuse for being rude its not so much a comment on their skills as a comment on them, nub = kid. sorry for it being so long but if i didnt let someone know it was wrong idve had to shoot myself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.205.121.168 (talk • contribs) 2007-02-07 21:31:07
There is a "citation needed" as follows:
"While the intentional transposition of letters in language is novel [citation needed], Davis and Rawlinson have demonstrated that readers of most languages are capable of understanding the meaning of a word, provided complex phonemes and diphthongs are not corrupted [citation needed]." 
I've found two web pages that may help; as a newb, I'm reluctant to cite w/o confirmation
Matt Davis is credited with authoring page http://www.mrc-cbu.cam.ac.uk/~mattd/Cmabrigde/ which, at the bottom, links to http://www.mrc-cbu.cam.ac.uk/~mattd/Cmabrigde/newscientist_letter.html, a copy of a letter written by Graham Rawlinson to the New Scientist in 1999. AspasiaDemar 20:50, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: horribly wrong

message: 1+3+3=7 ( 1 + 3 + 3 = 7)
Math is indeed leet. That is also the best math problem ever.
(added it at the bottom after "leet in the internet"... .)
I also added on to a few of the other entries.
69.223.46.15 10:22, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That was unnecessary vandalism. Hangfromthefloor 18:39, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Leet in math (Math is 1337)

message: This is bogus. If the lol section has original research/unverified claims, so does the parts about suxxors, noob, and the like. An article like this will have a little original research, because this is about a trend, and not many people in the higher ups will write about this, particularly because it is slang. Either remove it or tag the rest of the art. Comments? 
Quatreryukami 15:28, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Original research tag 

message: I took out the reference to half-life 1 and 2 in the beginning, because strictly speaking, they're not multiplayer games and Counter-Strike and Team Fortress are half-life mods, which made it seem like half-life is dominated by leet-speakers, when in fact it's not (I won't argue about CS, though. :P). Someone please add more games to that list if necessary; I myself haven't had any experiences that would warrant mentioning here. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.44.212.188 (talk) 03:38, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Small change 

message: l337 people often play World Of Warcraft,and other MMORPG's. - isn't it a "little" unsourced? --Have a nice day. Running 18:59, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WoW 

message: Twice in the article "sauce" is appended to words in examples, but it's never noted as a "common suffix." Should it be? 67.168.96.230 00:21, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sauce 

message: How come the chart that states the 26 alphabets and their leet variations is removed? OhanaUnited 04:14, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have restored the chart. It is possible it was removed due to teh conflicting opinions of many leet speakers on exactly how words and alphabets should be translated. So just to note: Teh 1337 Aplha Chart is just a base guideline on how leet speak in translated. There are many, many variations of each letter and there is no way to possibly list them all. New users and inventive gamers/hackers will come up with something different all teh time. This is what keeps leet so interesting and alive. (||stoney|| 22:42, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Leet chart removed? 

message: Quote: "Law enforcement agencies, teachers and parents have expressed concern over the fact that leetspeak could be used by pedophiles to lure children into dangerous situations. The central concern is that sexual predators and other individuals are able to present themselves as belonging to the same age and peer group as their victims simply by adopting the latest in internet slang. [3] Along this line of reasoning, potential attackers are better equipped to lure their victims to a physical encounter by establishing trust through the use of internet slang.[3]"
... ... Logically speaking, if slang was bad because pedophiles could imitate... wouldn't perfect grammar be far worse?  Pedophile wouldn't need to imitate at all.
Obviously, there is a huge bias in the citation and accompanying text, namely, "Leetspeak is bad, and we need to persecute it by any means possible".
Should be removed to maintain neutrality. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.195.31.101 (talk) 01:36, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: 71.195.31.101, did you read the sources?  They were "Entertainment Lite" and "Action News"  These articles (which demonstrated a poor grasp of leet) have little recognized authority on the subject, so "Law enforcement agencies, teachers and parents..." might be less accurate than, "Recent entertainment and 'action' periodicals have expressed concern...", to say nothing of the product placement which was the meat n' potatoes of the article.  Although the sources were biassed, a good faith effort was made to make it 'balanced'.  IMHO the article should be more like an encyclopedia and less like a point-counterpoint.  I'm new here, so please don't hesitate to revert if you didn't like the change or if it was not good for some reason.  --Haikon 15:10, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pedophiles and 1337 

message: The freddinator 22:08, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  UBXs 

message: I think that there are too many lol's in the lol section. Should we start adding guidelines?
In Ultima Online, Korean Users often type kekeke and -_- and ^-^ 
 bibliomaniac15 05:51, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is a note there saying no more should be added. And we cannot change the section because of one game, and one type of user. kekeke and the faces are  also used in leetspeak, but you could consider the words and faces Korean leetspeak. I mean, just look at Korean Comics ( i think they are called Manwha) Quatreryukami 16:57, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  lol? 

message: wow its been a while since I've visited this page and all but... JEEZ!!! wtf happened here? I went ahead and re-added Teh /\|3['5. This is teh most accurate version of teh 1337 alphabet to my knowledge, but as you all know there are always new and uncommon variations that are overlooked. (||stoney|| 06:38, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks sooooooo much. I love that alphabet. -hac —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.94.133.33 (talk) 20:19, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Restored Alphabet