Talk:Kwisatz Haderach

message: Much of the information in this article is a re-telling of the books and is not appropriate for an encyclopedia entry. Much of the information is about Jessica and Paul Atreides and has nothing to do with the Kwisatz Haderach topic as such. That extraneous information needs to me moved to the respective entries, and may also need to be abridged.
The term 'Kfitzat ha derech' is some what an archaic attempt to express the english term "shortcut".
In modern hebrew the term "Kitzur derech" is used.  German "Kurz de recht" being "short of right" (right being direction as well as the term correct).  Noting english "direct" of the right way or english meaning the fastest point from a to b.  "Shortcut" being still highly equivalent to "Kfitzat ha derech".  Spanish "derecha".
I'm no hebrew scholar, but i've always seen הַדֶּרֶךְ translated as "the way" rather than "the path." minor point, anyone think it merits changing?
:whoever wrote this, you're confusing various words that happen to look similar.  spanish "derecha" (from latin "directa") has nothing to do with hebrew "derech".  "kurz de recht" is garbled; "de" is a spanish or french word, not a german one.  german "recht" (english "right") are cognate with latin "rectus" and with "-recta" in "directa", but again have nothing to do with hebrew "derech". Benwing 23:29, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Irrelevant Information 

message: In the original novel, did Jessica base her decision on Leto's desire to have a son? The current wording "Jessica falls in love with Leto, and produces a son for him" seems only to hint at this. It may be clearer to mention his desire specifically.
The wording currently in the article--"However, Jessica fell in love with Leto, and produced for him the son he desired: Paul Atreides."--sounds perfectly accurate to me.  Jessica believed she did it because it would make the person she loved happy.  Of course, the fact that the being called "the shortcut" showed up a generation early can hardly be considered an accident. Wwdandelion (talk) 13:48, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jessica's decision to have a son 

message: Does the term "Super Being" actually come up in the book or was that just a movie line?  If so, I want to be the one to add it to the wiki please :)  --JVirusX 23:10, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Super Being" 

message: the part on hebrew "kfitzat ha-derech" should be titled as such and given a separate page, unless someone can show that the form "kwisatz haderach" was actually used (which is vaguely conceivable, as it *could* be a yiddish corruption of the original hebrew).  the "kwisatz haderach" page should indicate that this term was *borrowed* from the hebrew "kfitzat ha-derech", with a link to that page. Benwing 23:35, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  this should be two pages; don't confuse hebrew folklore with dune! 

message: In the article, the way the Tleilaxu Haderachs are explained, seems to say there was only one, and that he willingly killed himself.
In the Bene Gesserit Article it says, in the Breeding Program section:
"In Dune Messiah, the Tleilaxu Scytale reveals that the Bene Tleilax created their own Kwisatz Haderachs — in their case, beings of pure evil or pure good, indicating that the term "Kwisatz Haderach" means some sort of creature of essence. Scytale observes that their Kwisatz Haderachs could be destroyed by forcing them to become their opposites."
Shouldn't the final paragraph be changed to reflect this exact same information?  This would mean that it's explained the Tleilaxu claim to have created multiple Haderachs and then forced them to die- instead of saying it was one, and a "he", and committed Suicide.
(Forgot to add my signature to that, sorry) - Meeh Person 22:41, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Isn't this pretty much who a young Alia encounters in Paul of Dune? Ranze (talk) 09:52, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Bene Tleilaxu Kwisatz Haderach(s) 

message: As described in Dune Messiah, Scytale is a Face Dancer, not a Master.  This is supported by the information on the Bene Tleilax entry, the entry on Dune Messiah, as well as numerous references in the book itself.  Later books, such as Heretics of Dune, refer to a character with the same name, Scytale, as a Master, but whether or not this is the same character (or a later incarnation/ghola) seems unclear.  Mayanaut 21:48, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scytale in Dune Messiah 

message: Please see my comments about Arabic translations of Herbert's terms here: Talk:List of Dune terminology#Arabic (my arguments also apply to the Hebrew translations in this article). I don't question the quality/accuracy of the translations/analysis, I just think that any interpretation on the part of editors that is unsourced is original research. — TAnthonyTalk 23:34, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Hebrew/Arabic

message: The article states that the Bene Gesserit were unable to control Paul (as the kwisatz haderach) because of his early arrival. I've always thought the reason they weren't able to control him was that he wasn't, in fact, the kwisatz haderach. Almost, but not quite. The Bene Gesserit had correctly calculated that the kwisatz haderach would come in the next generation as a result of breeding a daughter from Jessica with a son from Feyd. But that never happened and Paul, however you want to define him, wasn't under the control of the Bene Gesserit because he wasn't exactly what they'd planned for.
I'm not looking at the book at the moment, but I think Paul actually says that very thing at one point. He says something like, "I am something unexpected."
So, I suggest a change to the article to reflect this different interpretation. Or maybe an addition to the article to offer this different interpretation in addition to the exiting one.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.189.58.254 (talk) 16:28, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  there is but one kwisatz haderach - .  the reel 1, 4 til sr 69.121.221.97 (talk) 00:51, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Paul was never the kwisatz haderach 

message: :They believe that being able to see the future fixes the future along a certain path; to avoid this, the Bene Gesserit provoke the Honored Matres, a rival order, into destroying most of the remnants of Leto II, whose prescience had locked the human race into such a fixed path. The Bene Gesserit also kill a number of offspring of the Atreides line in order to prevent another Kwisatz Haderach from controlling their destiny ever again.
I took this part out, can someone please support this with a book/page/quote? I've read all from Dune to Chapterhouse and there wasn't anything about the Honored Matres being provoked deliberately by the Gesserit. If this was later detailed in Hunters/Sandworms that's fine, but it should be revealed at that point, and clearly be distinguished as a Brian rather than Frank idea.
This contrasts with God-Emperor. Both Paul and Leto realized how prescience locked the future, and Leto conquered it with his genetic engineering. I don't recall the Bene Gesserit doing much plotting or killing of Atreides progeny, where is this described? Ranze (talk) 09:50, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed statement