Talk:Geography of the Odyssey

message: There is a place called "Pilas". It is near "Gereña" (pronounced "Gerenia", I'm referring to Nestor). To the south, "(Medina) Sidon(ia)" can be found. In the same area (Soutwest Spain) there is a mountain called "(E)sparteros". These places are not far from "Cadiz", easily reached for instance by ship or cariot.80.126.45.131 15:02, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you: these details are interesting, but they won't get into the article unless someone in a published work (preferably a notable or even reliable work) has identified these places with the places mentioned in the Odyssey. If so, let's have a reference! Andrew Dalby 17:04, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The location of Pilas

message: Hello WPns, would you be interested in having Wilkens' ideas about the whereabouts of Odysseus in the article? If you like you can look them up in the history of the cleaned-up article about his book in another place. They could be added in a manner that is of course discussable, and for everybody to adjust. Do you think there should be a place for this? Either would suit me. What is your opinion? Regards, Antiphus 17:30, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Geography 

message: I've now put in part one of a detailed section on ancient accounts, viz. "euhemerist" accounts. It's pretty big, but it all seems good stuff to me. I'm also inclined to go for completeness of information on ancient sources because they're not really controversial. Also because I found it pretty difficult and time-consuming to collect all this information, so others might too.
A section on "foundation myths" is forthcoming, taking in Etruria, Campania, and parts of Thesprotia. I'm too worn out to do it right now ... :-) Petrouchka 23:12, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: PS. I'm not 100% sure of the completeness of the section I've added, so if anyone ever wants to double-check ... better you than me! Petrouchka 23:13, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I really like what you've done so far, and I think completeness is warranted: if the article is going to include marginal modern theories like Wilkens and Mattevich, it should be exhaustive on the ancient stuff. --Akhilleus (talk) 23:43, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Excellent, Petrouchka! It's high time I got to work on modern views, and this gives me some useful ideas about the approach to take. Thank you. Andrew Dalby 08:47, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ancient accounts 

message: I have sketched this out now. It is too much based on secondary sources at present. I could improve it when I next spend some time in a library, but meanwhile, if anyone has read Bérard, please check, improve and if necessary correct my paragraph about him (he is more important than I have made him sound) and the same with any of the other individual authors named.
The last paragraph, "aberrant views", contains some surprises. No one will be offended by "aberrant", since that is exactly what Odysseus was.
My thanks to those who have given me ideas, references and links. Andrew Dalby 19:52, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Looking very nice indeed, Andrew. I like "aberrant". (Perhaps even "polytropic"!) I'd love to see the "recent publication [that] argues that Homeric geography is to be found in the sky, and that the Iliad and the Odyssey can be decoded as a star map." I haven't read Bérard, alas. I would suggest a little re-phrasing in the first section, though, to make it clear that the third and fourth sentences represent Kakridis' views and not Wikipedia's (viz. "We cannot confuse ... or of the poet") -- I'm not sure the placing of the footnote reference is enough to convey that. Anyway, great work! Petrouchka 22:44, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd also like to say the changes look great. While I too like "aberrant", that might be read as "erroneous" by some folks, so offense might be taken after all. The "star map" theory comes from Laurin R. Johnson, Shining in the Ancient Sea: The Astronomical Ancestry of Homer's Odyssey; a BMCR review is here. --Akhilleus (talk) 04:42, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Let's try "unusual" then, unless anyone can think of a mot plus juste. Thanks for the reference to Johnson. Curiously enough, that isn't the book that I remember, though it must have been published almost in the same year. I will keep on looking for the other (for completeness' sake). I still have to improve the bibliography. Andrew Dalby 13:26, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Modern views 

message: No Greek geographer would start his work without giving his personnal answers to the homeric questions. The oldest science among the greek can be defined as a permanent interrogation of homeric hexameters, as faithfull and honest as possible, as daring as possible. This article continues a very long tradition. But the big question was not the location of the various scenes, it was the location of Okeanos, far from the medieval clerical mislead which gave different name to seas, thalassai, and make today obvious that oceans are big seas surrounding continents. Such is not the view of Eratosthenes, Strabon, Hécatée, etc…None closed the question on a definitive answer, some toward a very abstract system of astronomical coordinates, some other, like Herodotus remained quite enigmatic. But all would laugh at where we put ocean, and all where certains that Odysseus, Jason, Hercules, travelled nowhere else than along that river, ocean, and that geographers, periégètoi, their true name, would sail on those flows of knowledge freed by a good question at the old Homer.  There is no Geography of the Odyssey for that good reason: Homer is the father of all Geographers, and Odyssey Geography herself, as good questions about a fine story told by a traveller, about climates, people, landscapes, and certainly not about cartesian coordinates of the greenwich meridian.
PHARNABAZE —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.123.179.67 (talk) 18:58, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Odyssey of Geographers 

message: Is :Image:Homer world map-en.svg a good image to useat the start? Some of the physical geography is all over the place whilst the placings don't appear to be the traditional ones (e.g. Aelous appears to be located on Malta) seem odd - and I'm not sure why "Helios' Island" and "Trinacria" are shown as separate places. Would a more conventional map of the Greek world or a "traditional route" in the Tyrrhenian Sea be better? Timrollpickering 11:43, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As you say, the locations given in the map are unconventional, and the alternatives you suggest are better. It would be nice to have several maps, based on specific sources, so the reader can compare different ideas visually. I have no skill in making maps, unfortunately... --Akhilleus (talk) 14:22, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  World map 

message: I am fairly certain that a mistake has been made: Strabo is not 'squarely on the skeptical side: he reported what the great geographer Eratosthenes had said in the late third century BCE: "You will find the scene of Odysseus's wanderings when you find the cobbler who sewed up the bag of winds."' The quotation is taken out of context: Strabo is merely discussing the achievements of the geographers that preceeded him; the surrounding text is as follows: 'Neither does Polybius approve of this sort of declaration from Eratosthenes: "You will find the scene of the wanderings of Odysseus when you find the cobbler who sewed up the bag of the winds." And the description of Scylla by the poet, says Polybius, is in agreement with what takes place off the Scyllaean Rock and in the hunting of the "galeotae"...' Even more, few passages after this comparison, Strabo makes another one, far more relevant to our topic (I, 2.20, same as above): "Generally speaking, it is wrong to place the poetry of Homer on the same level with that of other poets, and to decline to rank him above them in any respect, and particularly in the subject that now occupies our attention, namely, geography. For if you did no more than go over the Triptolemus of Sophocles or the prologue to the Bacchae of Euripides, and then compare Homer's care with respect to geographical matters, it would be easy for you to perceive this difference, which lies on the surface. Indeed, wherever there is need of an orderly sequence in the places he mentions, Homer is careful to preserve that order, not only in regard to places in Greece, but equally in regard to those beyond the limits of Greece..." I apologize for not being able to write more or participate in (hopefully) the discussion, but I have been inactive Wikipedian for a while now (was and still formally am an administrator at the Macedonian Wikipedia) and many present obligations bereave me of the time and energy needed to fully participate. Sincerely, Виктор Јованоски (talk) 17:51, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Introduction to the Article 

message: Translator Samuel Butler proposes, very eloquently, in his work The Authoress of the Odyssey, that Scheria and Ithaca are actually Drepanum, nowadays Trapani. Novelist Robert Graves expands this idea on his novel Homer's Daughter. I am actually surprised about not seeing any references here to this hypothese. It should be featured for completeness. Ibaman (talk) 18:03, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sicilian hypothese 

message: Could it be done in Spanish?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by FJ19 (talk • contribs) 09:42, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article (La Geografía de La Odisea) 

message: It is known that Lesbos was visited after leaving Troy, but some return to Troy to do hecatombs to the gods. The kings have stopped following the lap together. Odysseus for his part and while Menelaus is carried by the wind to Egypt, he arrives at Ismaro, Izmir, far of Troy. The way of sailing along the coast makes them get into the bay of Izmir. Then they come out and the sky is clouded with heavy clouds (Karaburun means "black cape") and contains roadsteads on its coast; At the same time, Chios is famous for receiving winds from Boreas, which is why its north coast has mills (Chios is mentioned by Nestor but it is unknown if Odysseus also knows it). Then they continued to Cape Malea and he says "we would have reached the homeland if the winds were favourable", so they have to wander for days until "harmful winds..." There are ten days of "Euro" wind that transport them around the sea from where legends come to them - Odysseus knows - so necessary to know its inhabitants. Who are the navigators who know all the inhabitants beyond the sea? Perhaps PHEACIANS (cretens), who for centuries would keep their stories told by Nausítoo. FJ19 (talk) 17:05, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  The well-understood journey