Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Melanesia/Tok Pisin

message: K. Kellogg-Smith has undertaken an excellent initiative: to bring the Tok Pisin Wikipedia and Tok Pisin Wiktionary back to life.  Below I'm copying the beginnings of a discussion on all this (copied from my tpi-pedia talk page - with some editing of my own comments, including using my en-pedia sig here).  Hope you don't mind me copying all this here, Ken. Let's continue the discussion from this point. Wantok (toktok) 06:44, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

message: === A possible proposal to the WikiProject Melanesia group ===
For the past several weeks now I've been working on the TPI Wikipedia and Wiktionary, and have requested temporary sysop/administrator permissions to help me get the job of reorganizing and revitalizing the two Wikis done.   I'm putting together a proposal for the EN WikiProject Melanesia (of which you are a member) suggesting that a subpage to the main project page be added to discuss policy and direction ideas for the two TPI Wikis, i.e., "Wikipedia:WikiProject Melanesia / Tok Pisin".  I'll also be proposing two subpages to the Tok Pisin subpage, one for each of the two Wikis, i.e., "Wikipedia:WikiProject Melanesia/Tok Pisin/Wikipedia", and "Wikipedia:WikiProject Melanesia/Tok Pisin/Wiktionary" (Note: Done, 02.07.2007 K. Kellogg-Smith).
What I visualize is therefore discussion page about Tok Pisin in general, and then two subpages where there can be discussion about the two Wikis editorial policies and orientation.   Given the target audience, I don't believe that at this initial stage of development it serves any purpose at all to have the TPI Wikipedia be a half-assed clone of the EN Wikipedia.  As I see it, the primary focus of the TPI Wikis should be (again at this stage of development) on Melanesia, and with an important, but secondary focus on the rest of Oceania and the Pacific Rim countries.  I feel that the rest of the world can wait (for the moment anyway), until the two Wikis are well organized and up and running.
=== Proposed Board of Editors or Editorial Board ===
As part of getting the subpages set up, I'd also like to propose that an Editorial Board be set up where interested members of the Project Melanesia group would work together to, for a start anyway, (a) agree upon the expected target audience for the two Wikis, (b) agree upon the scope and objectives of the TPI Wikipedia, (c) agree upon the general editorial content, vocabulary level, word-spelling and amount of English code switching/swapping generally allowable in the TPI Wiki's articles.
=== My Objective ===
My objective is to tout a bilingual TPI Wikipedia, and a bilingual TPI Wiktionary.  My reasoning is that tok pisin since there's a sizeable amount of switching between English and tok pisin in written and conversational tok pisin, that the two bilingual Wikis would be much more helpful to the general public (either by direct Internet access, or from those who do).  I think I'm right about this, but am I?
===Bilingual Wikipedia and Wiktionary: Testing the concept ===
Anyway, I've gone ahead and set up two psuedo-bilingual articles in this Wikipedia.  One is "Papua Niugini" and it's English psuedo-equivalent at "Papua Niugini/English".  The other is "Niu Aialan Ailan and it's English psuedo-equivalant at "Niu Aialan Ailan/English".  Both the English articles are copies from the EN Wikipedia.  They both demonstrate what elements are missing in the TPI Wikipedia, and what needs to be done to make the interlinks viable. I'm using a standard subpage "/English" in each Tok Pisin article for the location of the English-language version of the TP article.
I've also tested making the TPI Wiktionary bilingual.  That dictionary is virtually empty (but will soon be filled after I've finished the Tok Pisin to English dictionary I'm compiling from Mahalic's 1969 "Introduction .."), so I've used wanbel as my test word.  For the test I set up a page "Agreement" in the TPI Wiki and copied verbatim the definition from the EN Wiktionary.  In the definition for wanbel I set up two tables, one ostensibly for defining the word in Bislama, Motu/Hiri Moto, and another table for defining the word in contemporary and historically significant non-Melanesian languages (e.g., Bahasa Indonesia, Nederlans, Jerman, etc.).  The TPI dictionary is indeed bilingual; searching for either wanbel or agreement will bring up the appropriate page.   Further, both pages are interlinked, so switching between the two pages can be done quickly.
As an aside, I've also been working with the TPI Wikipedia's front page, which hadn't been updated in more than a year when I started working with it.  I haven't as yet been able to get "behind" the front page yet (don't have the required permissions), but I'm working on that.   On June 12th I submitted a request for temporary sysop/administrator privileges for the two Wiki's, but as yet there's been no action on my request.  Anyway, what I've been doing is daily updates of the "Karen afeas" template using transcripts from the Radio Australia's Tok Pisin Internet service.  I've also been updating the "dispela wik" template with photos from the WikiCommons, since there are precious few TP articles (as yet) in the Wiki.   The combination of reading/copying/inserting/proofreading the Radio Australia articles, and listening/reading the ABC's "Time to Talk" articles has increased my understanding of Tok Pisin (along with my Mahalic dictionary work) to where I feel hesitant (but confident) to rewrite a few of the ABC's TP headlines.
=== Problems with the existing Wikis ===
The main problem I'm encountering with the existing TPI Wikis is that they are both in a rudimentary state, and very unorganized (especially the Categories).  I've found that none of the templates used are documented in the Wikipedia, and were most likely included by the system developer when the TPI Wikipedia was initially set up.  "Caffelice" very likely worked with the developer in the setting up, but documentation doesn't appear to have been their primary interest.  So right now there's a lot of template finding/documenting that needs to be done, in addition to writing and implementing new (translated) templates.
K. Kellogg-Smith 05:13, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reorganizing TPI Wikipedia and Wiktionary 

message: The main problem I'm encountering with the existing TPI Wikis is that they are both in a rudimentary state, and very unorganized (especially the Categories).  I've found that none of the templates used are documented in the Wikipedia, and were most likely included by the system developer when the TPI Wikipedia was initially set up.  "Caffelice" very likely worked with the developer in the setting up, but documentation doesn't appear to have been their primary interest.  So right now there's a lot of template finding/documenting that needs to be done, in addition to writing and implementing new (translated) templates.
K. Kellogg-Smith 05:13, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Problems with the existing Wikis