Talk:Potter's House Christian Fellowship/Archive 1

message: The following is an archive of a rather heated discussion about this article that ended up banning one user.
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:Note! Can participants on this page please sign their comments using ~~~~, as is conventional. Otherwise for third parties coming to read this page it becomes very difficult to distinguish between the participants in the discussion. Thanks. — Matt Crypto 08:57, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Thanks for all your comments so far Fuzz. I'm glad that you're seeking answers and making us explain things to you - that actually shows that you want to know the truth.
Firstly a point about tracking down my name and address and email address. Can you please tell me how you did this? Once the address was revealed, of course it was easy to track me down. But let's assume that you did not have the address in the first place. How was it achieved? 
Secondly a point about the Potter's house that your friend goes to.
If my research into the church's history is correct, the Potter's house underwent two major splits. One in 1990 and another in 2001. In both cases hundreds of churches left the denomination - and my research indicates that many left because of concerns about how controlling of its members the church had become. I'm the first to admit that my own church is far from perfect, and it stands to reason that there are good and bad in all churches (though, I would still assert, there are some worse than others). The church your friend goes to may be a great church... or it may be a very controlling church. Either way you can't make any clear judgements. By all means speak to him and gain more information about the church... if only for the sake of having a better Wikipedia article.
Thirdly a point about the Potter's House and pentecostal churches generally.
It appears as though the Potter's house, while adhering to "classic" Pentecostal theology, has a very distinctive control mechanism over its members. At Apologetics Index, this is classed as a "cult of Christianity". Essentially this means that the group exhibits cult-like behaviour towards its members while holding to beliefs which are held by the wider church. The church of the foursquare gospel is certainly a Pentecostal church, but it does not have this control over its members (generally speaking) - hence the lack of websites and Wikipedia information that would criticise it. Criticisms of Charismatic and Pentecostal belief is an article that describes the criticisms of Charismatic and Pentecostal churches generally without being specific on any one group.
Now the question - is User:Truth over Relationship's actions typical of someone who goes to a church that is highly controlling, who has a warped sense of what is true and what is not true, and who will assert that strongly when given no choice? I think so. --One Salient Oversight 21:45, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: My 2 Eurocents

message: to One Salient Oversight
A whois search on your website reaveals nearly everything, and your user page reveals everything else. Please remember I am a Forensic Programmer, so this means I might get there quicker, But none the less it is available. I am baffled by your above response, I'll answer tommorow, i have more info. In the mean time, What does neutral mean???
220.233.86.223 10:54, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: More Info and Questions

message: Don't let One Salient Oversight scare you from going to a service with your mate - I have never seen mind control or cult activities in the 6 six years I have been going, He is a hater of Pentecostal Christians and especially the Potters House.
220.233.86.223 11:24, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: omigosh... did I just stumble into Talk:Jihad or an Arab Israeli article?!? I hear all this "hater" talk from totally unreasonable people, who try to impose their own POV on others, on articles such as these ones. Now we have another user, who even goes so far as to leak personal details (even if they are public) on Wikipedia - all done to intimidate the user who edits the article! So much for "truth over relationship". - Ta bu shi da yu 23:29, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  To Fuzz 

message: Do you know Stewart Cameron? - I am doing some research] on Stewart Cameron who left from Melbourne and caused some trouble are you related?. I also see you like to list the names of PH Christian Members who have been in trouble or have had some bad press - you should look at what you do, you fly blind with no respect for giving true references. and One Salient Oversight how you are quick to throw accusations and I find you do everything the same as you accuse me. I am a Christian and also wish to apologise for putting your details up here, I had no idea you were going to be so upset, you actually threatened me first, I just said be careful of Slander you may get charged for that and your details were to show how easy you are trackable] on the net. I still wish you would put real references in not Slander. Just keep to the facts. you'll have no further trouble from me unless it is inadvertant. 
220.233.86.223 11:24, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: To '''One Salient Oversight'''

message: Fuzz I am new thanks for some support. Just watch this guy he is active at trying to convert Pentecostal Christians away. 
Be assured the 'Day of Pentecost' was a real event in which the 120 in the Upper Room were Filled with the Holy Spirit and Spoke in New Tounges, This is Biblical and is still relevant today for those who pray to be filled with the Holy Spirit.
A person who accepts only part of the Bible and not the Bible Entirely is in danger of going off track and will miss the full understanding and teaching of Jesus. Please look it up for yourself don't be misguided by Lies of the Devil, and know that there is battle going on for your soul and that Satan will throw almost anything at you to throw you off couse, including A Religous Wolf dressed in Sheeps clothing. I say stick to the straight and narrow way and find the answers for yourself by studying and finding credible people to ask questions from, you cant beat testing the comments of people by looking up the Bible for its reference. 
You will not be fed Lies if you attend a service I encourage you to see for yourself. There is a policy in the Potters House that the door swings both ways, so some people come and some go, this is not bad in itself, it is a healthy purging of the church, as if there is no outflow, there can be no inflow. You can wonder now Now, how can there be cultish control if people just come and go? As Salient said above people leave - I say 'so what, thats there choice' so his label of cult is wrong by his own admission. 
220.233.86.223 11:52, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: To Fuzz 2

message: In your 2 Eurocents Edit above you say 'distinctive control mechanism' please what is that? I have no idea at all - it is very ambiguous and unwise for an editor with the respect you have from Matt to just put words, Phrases and Slants in Text with out explanation. please tell us how the PH Church actually does this, Ha if you can that is, please be very specific and give reference and dont quote Slam the Door they don't have any names or real back up for any so called abuses. I could write a thousand articles on a person  or group being an abuser without reference or names does that mean that they would be credible - NO. So try and be Truthfull about it.
220.233.86.223 12:12, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Please Explain Salient

message: The debate above also continued on my user page. To see this, go to User talk:One Salient Oversight/ - Potters House archive
The RFC can be viewed here: Wikipedia:Requests for Comment/user 220.233.86.223
One Salient Oversight 12:15, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: More Archival Links