Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ice Hockey/Archive10

message: I've finally picked my project to chart the various lists of NHL players (see List of NHL players: B - any help anyone wants to offer would be appreciated), and for sake of simplicity in listing and linking team names, I have created the following template: 
NHLteamabbr
If anyone else can think of a list or situation where a need to show all 50 current and former team names would exist, or if I missed any teams/have an incorrect abbreviation, it would be appreciated. A decent abbreviation to distinguish the original Senators from the current team currently eludes me. Resolute 02:15, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Have these abbreviations been used anywhere?  I don't recall seeing MNS for example.  Otherwise, this seems to be "original research" and not appropriate for an encyclopedia/Wikipedia.  I see what you're doing now.  I'm not sure I like the idea of creating non-standard abbreviations.  In cases where standard abbreviations could refer to more than one team (Minn for North Stars or Wild, Ott for the two incarnations of the Senators), most often historical time period will differentiate.  In ambiguous situations, a footnote would seem better than idiosyncratic abbreviations.  Does the NHL or a book on the history of the NHL use an abbreviation, so that they would be in wider use than here? - Cafemusique 12:49, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: For the most part, the abbreviations are standard abbreviations used presently, or historically, across the league.  For current cities with previous teams, I simply added the first letter of the nickname for the previous teams.  The Ottawa Senators situation is obviously a challenge.  MNS for the Minnesota North Stars was simply the most convienent abbreviation I could come up with. It looked better to me than MinN or MinNS.  I had thought of simply letting historical period differentiate, however unless people know of the histories behind the teams, it may be more difficult for them to determine which Min is being referred to. Resolute 15:16, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: for the first Ottawa Senators, why don't you put Ottawa Silver Seven or Ottawa Hockey Club ? TaraO 18:41, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Because they were known as the Ottawa Senators at the time they were in the NHL. Resolute 20:03, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Team abbreviations template

message: Is there any guidelines for the current roster section on team pages during the offseason? Should players be on the current roster until they sign with a new team (if they're free agents)? Or should all players without a contract be removed? --Krm500 17:43, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think there's a guideline for this. The pratice has been at Wikipedia, to leave free agents with last contractual team, until & if they signed with a new team. You could propose a 'free agent' guideline and seek your peers opinons on it. GoodDay 18:37, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Yeah usually we just tend to leave them there till the season starts. If they haven't been signed by then we remove them. But there isn't any set guideline. That's just sorta how it happens. --DJSasso 18:39, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Guideline for the offseason? 

message: Well, I finally decided to give the List of NHL Draft Busts article another shot at life on Wikipedia. I decided to delve into more depth as to the definition of a bust, the profile of the busts, and a place to put players that could become busts for whatever reason that you see. This, I feel, is much worthier of a Wikipedia article than the last article I did on the subject.
So if you have some spare time on your hands, critique the article for me. If you do so, thanks for the help. Hossmann 14:17, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would suggest removing the section on potential draft busts.  That will cause the article to get shot down in a hurry per WP:CRYSTAL.  The most important part of this article will have to be sourcing.  If there are reliable sources that argue such players are busts, it should be alright. Lacking sources, it will fall afoul of Wikipedia's original research and point of view policies. Resolute 14:32, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Done. Hossmann 17:07, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of NHL Draft Busts 

message: I'm surprised that there is no article on the Canadian senior women's ice hockey championships, the Esso Women's Nationals, or its trophy, the Abby Hoffman Cup.  I've made an article on the former, but it's way below any real standard.  Can someone with better knowledge of Canadian women's hockey add in some details, as well as the teams representing each province?  (I can easily tell if an NWHL or WWHL team represents a province, but for the others...)
I also have to point out the articles on the NWHL and WWHL are far too inaccurate: while it's true that the NWHL and WWHL are the top leagues, Wikipedia has it that the WWHL is defunct (which it is not, as the media keep referring to it as being existent, although there is a partial truth to the fact that it was "absorbed" into the NWHL, as the WWHL teams - except the Calgary Oval X-Treme, the defending WWHL champions - are linked from the NWHL website).  I also note that the Clarkson Cup has been subsequently awarded, although how it was I'm not too sure (as the last time I checked it did replace the NWHL Champion's Cup).  Again, someone with better knowledge of Canadian women's hockey should fill in some details.
kelvSYC 02:23, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New article: [[Esso Women's Nationals]] 

message: I noticed that a user has created this new Wikiproject, Wikipedia:WikiProject National Hockey League, to cover NHL-related articles. I already thought WikiProject Ice Hockey is already covering it. Or should it stay and be a "Descendant Wikiproject". Thanks. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 02:29, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Stupid, we already have an established project with many members that cover NHL articles. --Krm500 13:31, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Wikipedia:WikiProject National Hockey League]] 

message: This subject is reopening at Talk:Wayne Gretzky. Comments are requested from WikiProject Ice Hockey members. Flibirigit 05:15, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Similar to this issue is the issue of Rod Langway. Langway has a category for Taiwanese ice hockey players.  He was born in Taiwan, but grew up and learned the game in the US.  Should we add a category to his article for American ice hockey players?  This same question would apply to several other players as well.  Patken4 21:22, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes the current consensus is to add a category for both the country he was born in and the country they play internationally for if it is different. I don't know if Langway ever played for the American national team so that is why the category is absent. I will look into it and add it if he has.--Djsasso 22:36, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Have added the cat to Langway. --Djsasso 22:46, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wayne Gretzky's Nationality 

message: I noticed most of the articles on defunct NHL teams still use the old infoboxes we user, so I developed a variation of our current team infobox with some of the elements that require the team to be still active (e.g. coach, captain, GM, media affliates, etc.) stripped away. The box can be found at User:NeoChaosX/Infobox DefunctNHLTeam (I'm not moving it to template space just yet), and I've used California Golden Seals to try it out. Just doing this for the sake of consistency, is all. Any thoughts? NeoChaosX  (talk, walk) 19:08, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infoboxes for defunct NHL teams 

message: On the List of MN North Stars players (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Minnesota_North_Stars_players), there is a link on a player called Gary Sargent.  But the link leads to a page that is either about a different Gary Sargent or has been vandalized. 24.245.35.74 19:42, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nope it links to the right person. --Djsasso 22:39, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minnesota North Stars 

message: I'm trying to get Ice Hockey to FA status. I have split a section of the article(lacking a worldwide view) into a separate, bigger article, but I can't write a good lead. Anybody able to do it?  The Evil Clown 15:21, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Did you get consensus from other editors to do this? Kevlar67 03:33, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  No, but I took a look at it, and I wasn't myself bothered by it.  RGTraynor 14:10, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's great and all.  But really the other editors of Ice Hockey should sign off on something like this.  I'm worried about it turning into a POV fork, or just being plain unnecessary.  Practically all important hockey competitions in NA and W Europe have been pro for decades, and the Soviets were only "amateur" by a very generous interpretation.  Do other sports divide their coverage on WP this way?  I don’t know, but I’d guess not. Kevlar67 00:33, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Professional Ice Hockey]] 

message: I was wondering if anyone else thought that list was unnecessary, especially considering that there is a List of NHL players with 500 goals. -- Scorpion 01:42, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would tend to agree.  I see no problem with turning it into a redirect to List of NHL players with 500 goals.  Would anyone have an issue with that? Resolute 04:22, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Also, I would recommend making the default sort on the list of NHLers with 500 goals to be number of goals rather than date it was achieved. Resolute 04:23, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My main concern is that it would open up the possibility for other similar pages. Why a list for players with 400 goals, 1200 points, etc, etc. As for the default sortability option, it is a list of players who have achieved 500 goals, not the top scorers. -- Scorpion 04:28, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree about the concern of arbitrary figures being introduced.  500 is a number of key importance by the NHL, but anything else would be arbitrary.  There is a List of NHL players with 700 goals, which has already been redirected.  IMO, that is a good solution for this one too.  Good point on the list of scorers, however, I think the date is a very poor default sort option.  If not by total number of goals, then alphabetically would be ideal. Resolute 05:35, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My opinion is that the sort method should be number of goals.  The reason behind that is because with the redirects of other search phrases, such as List of NHL players with 700 goals, at least the researcher who was looking would easily be able to see those players at the top of the list even though all players with 500 goals are also listed.  The number of goals scored as the sort is more useful.  If the list is to only show those users at 500 goals or more, than alphabetized is best.  However, it is more functional to sort by goals scored.  Pparazorback 05:58, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: However List of NHL statistical leaders already sorts the 500 goals by number... sorting by date or even alphabetical give the page more identity and distinction... and if you say why don't just redirect to List of NHL statistical leaders, I would say this is more of a magnification of that page. 69.63.57.88 21:20, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why should this be "magnified"? - Cafemusique 23:48, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

text:  Well not as much of a magnification as opposed to an extension. It is in more detail then the listing on List of NHL statistical leaders. And I may also add that it is sorted by date because that is how it is in the NHL Official Guide & Record Book, the source material. Mister Stat Master 21:23, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[List of NHL players with 600 goals]]

message: I was going to make subcategories of :Category:Hockey Hall of Fame for builders, players, and officials.  Does anyone have a problem with the naming scheme :Category:Builders in the Hockey Hall of Fame, etc?  When done, I will also need help sorting the current members of the main category. --Mus Musculus 18:04, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Do we need to chop it down that finely?  (I'm not coming down on the notion, per se; I'm just interested in the rationale for doing so.)  RGTraynor 20:00, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well, the category is fairly large right now and not really browsable for a reader looking for members in a particular HHOF category.  There are two lists of HHOF members, but they are alphabetical and chronological, not by category.  We have been pursuing a goal of having an article for every HHOF member, so there are quite a few "Builders" and "Officials" in the category at this point.  So, rather than having the bulk in one large category, I'd rather present the option of view just Players and so on. --Mus Musculus 20:16, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I'd prefer a list to a category. --Djsasso 22:29, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  So something like Members of the Hockey Hall of Fame by category? --Mus Musculus 00:06, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably something like List of Hockey Hall of Famers in the builders category something like that...though this example is a bit of a mouth full. Or List of Hockey Hall of Fame builders perhaps...unless that would confuse people to its purpose. --Djsasso 20:43, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Category organization 

message: I noticed there are two pages for a goalie's blocker. This one has more links to it, but this one seems more complete. Merge? Just thought I'd point it out! --Schmackity 13:47, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Merge it but use the name Blocker (hockey) because goalies in both field and ice hockey use blockers I do believe. Of course you will have to put that up for nom to do it tho. --Djsasso 18:14, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blocker or blocker? 

message: I'm wondering if anyone in here would like to join WikiProject Munich and help out with  the hockey section for the Sports Task Force. Kingjeff 18:29, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, I don't know much about hockey in Germany. What kind of help is it that you are looking for? --Krm500 21:41, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: WP Munich- Sports Task Force Invitation

message: Just so there isn't any confusion between the two, I've labeled Bill Stewart, who played in the NHL in 80's and later coached the Islaners, as Bill Stewart (ice hockey player) and Bill Stewart who was an ice hockey and baseball offical as well as coach of the Blackhawks as Bill Stewart (sports).  The Bill Stewart in the US Hockey Hall of Fame is the sports Bill Stewart.  Patken4 17:54, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We need to change the one to Bill Stewart (ice hockey) because if you use the word player in there it is too specific since he was a coach as well. Or (ice hockey b. xxxx) for whatever year he was born in cause using the word player makes it too specific since he was a coach as well. --Djsasso 19:27, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done.  I'll also did a dablink from Bill Stewart (ice hockey) to Bill Stewart (sports).  Patken4 19:52, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Bill Stewart (ice hockey player)]] and [[Bill Stewart (sports)]]

message: Both Pat Kelly (skater) and Red Kelly have real names Leonard Patrick Kelly.  Is this correct? —Quarl (talk) 2007-04-04 12:29Z
:That definately is Red Kelly's name. And I have no reason to think its not the speed skaters name as well. --Djsasso 15:25, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Pat Kelly (skater)]] vs [[Red Kelly]] 

message: Please help me keep an eye on .  He has been blocked three times for vandalizing hockey articles, and he is at it again.  I have asked the blocking admin to re-block him, and I have undone all of his edits.  His MO appears to be either removing text or changing statistics like weight and height. --Mus Musculus 14:36, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hockey vandal 

message: Came across this today: :Template:Carolina Hurricanes 2006 Stanley Cup Team, which strikes me both as a bad idea, and as an end-run around a similar category which was deleted in CfD a while ago.  Imagine such a template for anyone who played on any dynasty of the past?  I am personally inclined to list it for deletion at TfD, but wanted to see if anyone here had any objections first. Resolute 23:30, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No objections. --Krm500 00:06, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Definately think it should be ditched. --Djsasso 03:07, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

text: As one of the resident Hurricanes Editors, no objections here either.  I also noticed another template that should also be included as a deletion candidate, :Template:Tampa Bay Lightning 2004 Stanley Cup Team.  The user Rickyharder has created both.  He was busy last night adding that template for Tampa to several of the Lightning players from the 2004 championship team.   Both templates should nominated for TfD.  Pparazorback 03:37, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't really think there needs to be a template at all. You could just do that with a table on the season page. --Djsasso 13:19, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yea, of course, I ment to use the same code as the Current Roster does. --Krm500 15:01, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Personally I don't see how this template is bad, particularly if it's added onto the bottom of biographical articles like the awards succession boxes. Maybe if they had a [show]/[hide] feature? --Wafulz 04:20, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: For the most part, it is indiscriminate.  Templates are typically used to tie closely related topics together, or to create easy navigation.  IMO, simply being members of a championship team are not a close enough relationship to form a useful template, and I don't see the navigational benifits either.  As mentioned, a player who appears on multiple Stanley Cup teams will see an article flooded with these things.  Imgaine the Wayne Gretzky article if his four cups were listed, along with his international team championships?  That article is already bad enough with the succession boxes. Resolute 04:58, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

text: They have been nominated here. Resolute 05:11, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I also added :Template:Colorado Avalanche 2001 Stanley Cup Team to the nomination as well. --Pparazorback 05:32, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, these templates have got to go. Imagine what the Montreal Canadiens (24 Stanley Cup titles), Toronto Maple Leafs (13 Stanley Cup titles) and Henri Richard (11 Stanley Cup titles), would look like with such templates? GoodDay 18:16, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I think the use of a navigation template is inappropriate for this situation.  I can think of two better alternatives: expand List of Stanley Cup champions (or create a sub-article) to include the roster of each winning team (i.e. the names actually engraved on the Cup), or create a new list (List of Stanley Cup winning hockey players??) that has a sortable table to find multiple-Cup winners, sort by team or by year, etc.  Andrwsc 20:05, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I know the best place for these templates. Example: The 2006 Carolina Hurricanes Stanley Cup Team, could be placed at the bottom of 2005-06 Carolina Hurricanes season (when that article is created). GoodDay 18:12, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But that can be done as a table and not as a template as mentioned above. --Djsasso 18:17, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Quite, correct. GoodDay 20:12, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Template:Carolina Hurricanes 2006 Stanley Cup Team

message: A recurring battle for over a year has been in the Hartford Whalers topic, where a few editors insist that the honoring of three players by the AHL minor league team nine years after the Whalers left town be reflected in the Whalers' Retired Numbers section.  One of them has jumped back into the fray and says he's just going to revert to his own edit every day.  Comments welcome on the various talk pages, because after a year of it I'm inclined to take it to mediation at the least.  RGTraynor 03:48, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The consensus continues to be (list only- Ley, Howe & McKenzie). What's troubling to me? The editor who 'promises' to revert daily (against consensus). There's no need for such behaviour (by the editor in question). I'd suggest, not going to 'mediation' (for now), as it's currently only 'one' compative editor. The compative editor, must learn to respect 'consensus (perhaps, an Administrator's block is the answer). GoodDay 20:42, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spurious "retired numbers" 

message: I have went from Anaheim through Chicago alphabetically on the NHL Teams list and made numerous corrections to the SMALL tags that are used.  Previously it seemed that when the < SMALL > tag was used, text would revert to normal size on the next line.  That is apparently no longer the case.  If you fail to use the < /SMALL > tag to close it, then all normal text below will also be small.  This is found in several places on the NHL Team pages usually beginning at the end of the "seasons" table, and goes through the Rosters (Where players have been indicated as being injured, etc...) and awards.  What needs to happen is that all of these < SMALL > tags need to be closed with < /SMALL > to correct the page's text size.  I have done through Chicago as I said but do not have the time to do more right now.  As I get a chance, I will do more if anyone else does not take on the project to correct this.  Any help would be appreciated. (hagerbot is quick, came back here to sign) Pparazorback 16:01, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've completed the corrections (you've started). Article text have been restored. GoodDay 19:49, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You would be surprised how many small tags were missed.  I even went through the ones I did previously and found several.  I did a search for "small>" in my browswer and found every instance of the small tag being used in all the NHL articles and have closed ALL of them.  For the future, we will have to be carefull to make sure that we close all smalls that are opened otherwise text problems will occur.  --Pparazorback 18:11, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Will do. GoodDay 00:45, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Correcting SMALL tags.... 

message: I am looking for some other opinions on the discussion I just started at Talk:Super Eight. Please feel free to add to the discussion. Thanks! Stoneice02 02:36, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Super Eight discussion 

message: It just occured to me that someone decided to move the Joe Sakic page to Joe Šakić, which just leads to the issues that we are all so familiar with. Now I am not to sure how to move it back, but if one of you would be so generous to do so, that would be super. Kaiser matias 22:11, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No problem, I have reverted the move. All you have to do is press the move link right next to "edit this page". --Krm500 22:56, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Hey, how do you think I learned it ;) --Krm500 23:27, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Joe Sakic]] 

message: I have spent some time fixing up the Joe Sakic article, and am now going for either a GA or FA nomination in the forseeable future. However, it's lacking something, so I'm asking for the help of my fellow hockey project members to see what this is and fix it. We need more high quality articles, and so lets get them going. The discussion page can be found here. Kaiser matias 23:42, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The article has been completely rewritten now. I would like to nominate it for GA in the next few days, but would like some more input on it first. Kaiser matias 23:05, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It looks great to me. I'm certain Burnaby Joe, would be flattered. GoodDay 20:25, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sakic on Peer Review 

message: There is a discussion about whether the Rugby League Challenge Cup should be moved to Challenge Cup. I am notifying you since "Challenge Cup" is or has been used as part of the name of various ice hockey tournaments notably the Stanley Cup. Those with an opinion see Talk:Rugby League Challenge Cup.GordyB 09:02, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Challenge Cup

message: Hey everyone, just letting you know that I have been putting extensive work in the Fighting in ice hockey article and I'd like to get it to FA status.  I have placed it for peer review here.  I'm hoping for suggestions on things to add, etc. 
I also wanted to ask for specific advice here about a passage I expect will attract frequent edits, which is the list of "examples" of well-known fighters.  I thought a lot about who to include, and I eventually decided that it wasn't for me to decide and so I just included a sourced list from the Allen book.  I anticipate that lots of anons and other editors will drive by and add their favorite fighter, but I think it's better as a short and well-sourced list. --Mus Musculus (talk) 16:31, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Impressive work! I can contribute with possibly two images in the article to replace the images taken from the seating area. --Krm500 21:10, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks, that would be helpful.  I wanted to limit the images to creative commons or public domain so it has a better chance of making FA. --Mus Musculus (talk) 22:12, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I refuse to release my images to the public domain. Wikipedia's image policy is a real joke and will hurt this encyclopedia since some great photographers will disappear sooner or later. I'll upload the image to Flickr under the same license as the lead image. I want my images to be used for educational purpose, not commercial. --Krm500 00:52, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

text: That is a terrific image, thank you for uploading it.--Mus Musculus (talk) 04:12, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, but now that I see it in the article I think I should crop it so that the two players fighting are more visible? --Krm500 23:34, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes I would agree with that.  Users with larger resolutions will not see much unless they click the thumbnail. --Mus Musculus (talk) 16:07, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fighting in ice hockey on peer review 

message: Can we do something for the ridiculous amount of vandalism going on at the Chris Neil article?  DMighton 17:24, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: 3 vandalism in 1 week is small beans.  Employ "Revert, Block, Ignore". ---J.S  (T/C/WRE) 05:16, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I was just passing by it, thought it worse than it was... just left a heads up.  DMighton 05:18, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Protection for [[Chris Neil]]

message: What about for player articles, separating the statistics by league, so that each league the player has played on, for example NCAA AHL and then NHL, each had a different column. Its just its so hard to read the statistics the way they are without bolding certain leagues, an example would be the Brandon Bochenski article. Since Wikipedia is not paper, this might be the better option since in most cases we see the normal format it is compressed for space reasons. I propose something like this:
  	                     	 	 	Regular Season	Regular Season	Regular Season	Regular Season	Regular Season	 	Playoffs	Playoffs	Playoffs	Playoffs	Playoffs
Season 	Team                      	League	 	GP                 	G                  	A                  	Pts                	PIM                	 	GP      	G       	A       	Pts     	PIM
2001-02	University of North Dakota	NCAA  	 	36                 	17                 	15                 	32                 	34                 	 	-       	-       	-       	-       	-
2002-03	University of North Dakota	NCAA  	 	43                 	35                 	27                 	62                 	42                 	 	-       	-       	-       	-       	-
2003-04	University of North Dakota	NCAA  	 	41                 	27                 	33                 	60                 	40                 	 	-       	-       	-       	-       	-
Totals 	1 Team                    	NCAA  	 	120                	79                 	75                 	154                	116                	 	-       	-       	-       	-       	-
2004-05	Binghamton Senators       	AHL   	 	75                 	34                 	36                 	70                 	16                 	 	6       	1       	0       	1       	2
2005-06	Binghamton Senators       	AHL   	 	33                 	22                 	24                 	46                 	36                 	 	-       	-       	-       	-       	-
2005-06	Norfolk Admirals          	AHL   	 	-                  	-                  	-                  	-                  	-                  	 	3       	1       	1       	2       	0
2006-07	Norfolk Admirals          	AHL   	 	29                 	28                 	26                 	54                 	21                 	 	-       	-       	-       	-       	-
Totals 	2 Teams                   	AHL   	 	143                	89                 	93                 	172                	83                 	 	9       	2       	1       	3       	2
2005-06	Ottawa Senators           	NHL   	 	20                 	6                  	7                  	13                 	14                 	 	-       	-       	-       	-       	-
2005-06	Chicago Blackhawks        	NHL   	 	20                 	2                  	2                  	4                  	8                  	 	-       	-       	-       	-       	-
2006-07	Chicago Blackhawks        	NHL   	 	10                 	2                  	0                  	2                  	2                  	 	-       	-       	-       	-       	-
2006-07	Boston Bruins             	NHL   	 	31                 	11                 	11                 	22                 	14                 	 	-       	-       	-       	-       	-
Totals 	2 Teams                   	NHL   	 	81                 	21                 	20                 	41                 	38                 	 	-       	-       	-       	-       	-
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
       	                          	      	 	                   	                   	                   	                   	                   	 	        	        	        	        	
As you can see its much easier to read, however its breaking away from the norm in that chronological order is most important. In this way its League first, Chrono second, and I personally see no problem with that. Croat Canuck Go Leafs Go 16:09, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't like it like that because when it comes to stats I think Chrono is the most important aspect so you can see how a player has developed over time. The call ups the send backs etc. And how their totals grew or fell over time. --Djsasso 17:04, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yeah but part of my point is that without bolding a certain league (most obvious example the NHL), it just looks like a horribly jumbled mess. I agree with you too, I prefer chrono, but since we can't be impartial to league and just bold NHL totals, its much harder to read statistics for the more casual reader. I even have a little difficulty reading it, and I've been a statsfreak since I was born. Croat Canuck Go Leafs Go 17:59, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I usually just prefer to put the totals for all of them on the bottom of the list in the order in which they were first played in. But I do see your point. --Djsasso 18:19, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Yeah obviously we'll never get that. We're always gonna have stats tables of varying styles and appearance, some very nice ones and some horribly mutated. Just more or less finding out if their is vehement opposition to this kind of thing. Croat Canuck Go Leafs Go 02:54, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Does anything like that already exist here?  I would be willing to code one if there is an example to go on. --Mus Musculus (talk) 03:12, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

text: There are templates with the "hide" function. That might help. Flibirigit 05:54, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Try using class = "wikitable sortable".  Also, m:Help:Sorting is a good place to look for help.  (I'd also suggest putting style="text-align:center" in the table header after that class statement so you don't have to put align="center" on every line in the table....).  HTH, Andrwsc 15:35, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Career statistics - suggestion

message: Now I realize that winning the cup for a player is a very notable thing. However, maybe its just me but I think its a bit over kill to have every person engraved on the cup listed on wikipedia. That being said I don't mean we should leave off players who won it. I think every player who won it should be on here. Its the "staff" members for lack of a better term that I think is a bit of over kill. The trainers and the physical therapists. A good example and the one that finally put me over the top with thinking I should seek others opinions would be Art Cayford. I mean exactly what kind of info are we going to ever have in an article about the secretary-treasurer of a team? I think it would be fine to have a list of some sort to list these people. But not completely seperate articles. --Djsasso 06:27, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you mean the article you were concerned about. Its been deleted but a new one is being created that will have his information on it. Be patient it will be coming soon. --Djsasso 02:36, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Non-Notable people engraved on the Stanley Cup

message: Oops.  I created :Category:Sorel Black Hawks alumni and, after I started populating it, I realized that :Category:Sorel Eperviers alumni already exists for the exact same team.  Can the one I erroneously created be merged into the already-existing correct one?  I need someone who knows what he/she is doing to do this for me.  Sorry.  Thanks! Skudrafan1 01:42, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, is that all I had to do?  Move the four articles from my category into the original one?  I guess I could have done that after all.  Thanks, User:Pparazorback!  I'll try to use... oh, I don't know... common sense from now on, before I come here whining about how I don't know how to do something. :) Skudrafan1 03:13, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Is it the proper way of doing it, I do not know.  It made sense to me.  Perhaps one of the more finely tuned editors can chime in and report that.  Regardless, I did those edits and nominated your cat for deletion.  Was this the way to do it? --Pparazorback 03:24, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems logical enough to me. Skudrafan1 03:29, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yeah the French/English teamnames can really bite you in the butt in the QMJHL, I think, I can't remember totally it was a long time ago, but I think I used the team's french names when I created those categories a while back when, but I can't verify that for sure. I'm pretty sure every team in QMJHL history was accounted for, so if you start a category for a QMJHL, just double-check to make sure one of that same team doesn't already exist under its french or english name. Just mentioning thiss so this kinda thing doesn't happen too often by accident again. Croat Canuck Go Leafs Go 13:47, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Category Merger Needed 

message: Recently on this page, there was a header named "Sidney Crosby era". The page consensus was to cut down the section and rename the title, at it wreaked of recentism. However, an IP hopping editor is continually reinserting it, basically playing a joke. We would really appreciate if we could get some extra eyes on this article in order to revert the change. Thanks. Part Deux 15:12, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There was a consensus on renaming it? I personally thought it was you that was causing the issues as I believe it should labelled the Sidney Crosby Era because that really is the most acurate description. An era does not have to be a long time hence the saying the dawning of a new era.....that being said I was leaving it to you all to sort it out since I don't edit team pages much. --Djsasso 16:38, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'd say 75%, not including Part Deux, constitutes a consensus.   
 RGTraynor  16:57, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I guess I just don't see where there was a debate regarding it. I see some comments on it but but nothing where someone asked for a consensus. And the comments I do see I see 3 people saying change it (including Part Deux) and 2 people saying yes it should stay the same. Which to me isn't a consensus, especially if you include me. --Djsasso 17:08, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Whom are you claiming said to keep it other than Exoterrick?   RGTraynor  17:51, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I don't see any debate either, but "Sidney Crosby Era" seems inherently POV unless you can come up with multiple media sources uniformly calling it that. --Mus Musculus (talk) 17:55, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Like I said I will be happy with whatever way people go, however I don't think its any more POV than the section of the article called the Mario Lemieux era. However, I do see the most widely talked about thing to do with the Penguins for the last few years has been Sidney Crosby...even the pending move didn't get as much press as he has, which is why I feel its appropriate. --Djsasso 18:24, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I do agree that he is the more important thing to happen to that franchise since Lemieux.  But my point is that if we don't back it up with sources, it is just original research. --Mus Musculus (talk) 18:41, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, naming the section 'the Sidney Crosby era' is way too premature. The 'Kid' is yet to turn 20, has just played in 2 NHL seasons. Perhaps (someday), when his Penguins resume is comparable to Mario Lemieux's (assuming he'll be a long-term Penguin), we can change this section title. GoodDay 19:23, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree with GoodDay wholeheartedly. Gmatsuda 19:30, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Pittsburgh Penguins]] 

message: This article has been up for FA-nomination forever now and it needs a few more supports to get it over the edge and into FA-status. If you feel that it is ready for such a promotion, feel free to say so on the nomination page. Sportskido8 02:18, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't support.  Possibly the anal sourcing of each and every sentence is what the FA jocks want, but I find it stylistically jarring (as well as pointless) to throw in sixty footnotes, especially in cases where facts are part of the easily reviewed statistical record.  For instance, is it genuinely needful to specifically source that Brodeur has played his entire career for the Devils, that in his tenure the Devils have won three Cups, to have TWO sources for breaking Parent's single-season wins record, that he played his junior hockey in the Quebec league, and so many more?    RGTraynor  09:28, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow. ccwaters 12:57, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

text:  Our featured article criteria specify that only items that are challenged or likely to be challenged require inline citations, so yes, the Brodeur article probably has too many.  --Mus Musculus (talk) 13:20, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree with above that the article is indeed oversourced, but I feel that's not a reason to hold up this article, its well written and as with even the best featured article, its not perfect no matter how many times the FAC overlords would like to say otherwise. Its very informative and I think more people in this WikiProject should throw their support behind this article. Croat Canuck Go Leafs Go 13:23, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'll be happy to do so if the barrage of citations is slashed.    RGTraynor  15:20, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Cut down on the citations, seeing those 'little numbers' after nearly every sentence, is hypnotising. GoodDay 18:03, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'll see what I can do. Gretzky has 47 sources and Brodeur has 42 so at the time I did not think of it having too many sources. I tried to source all of the statistic stuff, like "he had 3 shutouts in the series" but maybe those kinds of facts don't really need it. Sportskido8 20:18, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Gretzky's article contains a number of controversial statements - just the assertion that he is generally considered the greatest player of all time, a view plainly and obviously held by the majority of hockey commentators, was so contentious here that it generated more discussion than every other issue in the history of the WikiProject combined.  You'll note that the sources listed are all supporting statements of opinion.    RGTraynor  20:42, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks for taking out the unnecessary sources Traynor. The article is much cleaner now. Sportskido8 10:36, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Wow, I never thought that there would be any problems with this article gaining FA status. And the reason; Not enough references? Too many IMO. I'll give my support. --Krm500 21:09, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please support [[Martin Brodeur]] 

message: Does anyone know for certain, who the Devils 4 alternates are? In my view its Jamie Langenbrunner, John Madden, Jay Pandolfo and Colin White. According to Njdhockey & his 'source' it's Madden, Pandolfo, Brian Rafalski and White. Who's correct? I've watched the Devils games, and what I've seen? backs my facts. Help me folks, help me. GoodDay 16:50, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just like that, the dispute has ended over. Langenbrunners is in, Rafalski is out. GoodDay 16:54, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I aim to please, GoodDay! It would be soooo much simpler for the teams to list their captains on the team's official website!  --Pparazorback 17:08, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Devils alternate captains in 2006-07

message: All, I have decided to be bold and nominate Fighting in ice hockey for Featured Article status.  It has recently been through a peer review and has had some other minor changes resulting from feedback on this Talk page and from side conversations with other editors.  The nomination page is here. --Mus Musculus (talk) 22:51, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow really shooting for the golden starts nowadays. I'll take a gander. Croat Canuck Go Leafs Go 23:22, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll keep my fingers crossed! And, quickly get started with the cropping of the image, it's 1.40 am here so I'll do it when I get home tomorrow. --Krm500 23:42, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  The image looks good, thanks for your work on that.  BTW, I'm assuming I got the team names right in the image caption? --Mus Musculus (talk) 18:39, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Fighting in ice hockey]] at FAC 

message: I'm working on a season by season list and have stumbled across a problem. What should I do when the post season is played in a regular season format? The playoffs were played like a regualar season in Sweden some years and the winner was the team that finnished first in the standings. Should I add GP, W, L, T, GF, GA, Pts in the post season column or add the post season results under the regular season result? --Krm500 10:59, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would still separate them from the actual regular season.--Djsasso 13:02, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well I just finnished adding all data (phu!), the list is far from done but what do you all think about the look, (User:Krm500/Sandbox3)? The season by season list which I added to the Frölunda HC article a while ago only contained the Elitserien stats so I decided to do things correct and add all information. --Krm500 02:42, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I like it. --Djsasso 03:20, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Season by season list 

message: Input is needed, concerning the merging of Bob Murray (ice hockey) & Bob Murray (hockey player). The former has the correct title, the latter has the most information. GoodDay 18:29, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It would seem that the more info should be in the article with the standardized title.    RGTraynor  18:33, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Still uncertain about how to merge the 2 articles. Is an Administrator needed for such a move? GoodDay 18:43, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Howabout, change the former Bob Murray (ice hockey) to Bob Murray (hockey) then have a AfD. Then rename the latter Bob Murray (hockey player) to Bob Murray (ice hockey)? GoodDay 18:50, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  It won't work: I've 'moved' Bob Murray (ice hockey) to Bob Murray (Blackhawks) (with the idea of nominating it for deletion), but I can't 'move' Bob Murray (hockey player) to Bob Murray (ice hockey)? Perhaps an Administrator is needed, I'm in over my head. GoodDay 19:00, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I surrender, these pages may never be merged. This situation is 'way' over my head, big time. GoodDay 19:58, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Which one is supposed to be correct?  Just merge all the content to the correct one, and make the incorrect one a redirect to the correct one. --Mus Musculus (talk) 20:00, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Bob Murray (hockey player) has more information. Oddly enough, both pages were created within 1-day of each other. GoodDay 20:08, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  It's been taken care of, Earl Andrew has successfully merged the pages. GoodDay 20:20, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yeah just a general warning for those creating player articles. The linking on the List of NHL players pages is not very good, and be vary wary if an article appears not to have been created yet. I made the same mistake a few days ago when following a link from NHL players B to create the James Black hockey player article, and found out that the article has already been created. Croat Canuck Go Leafs Go 15:37, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The duplicate Bob Murrays 

message: Folks, the notability bar for athletes is "Competitors who have played in a fully professional league," not having played in the NHL.  I realize this means that a schlup who plays so much as a single match in the CHL is eligible, and I believe the bar to be too low, but it is what it is, and certainly fourth-year AHLers shouldn't be subjected to prods.    RGTraynor  00:57, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It was actually your comments that caused me to put them up in the first place. Elsewhere you said something that indicated otherwise. And other afds I have seen indicated they had to be at a higher level than the minors as baseball player articles are killed all the time for only playing in the minors. I won't put anymore up, but if that's the case I will have to change my vote on a couple of the others cause if they signed a contract there is no point in deleting them cause they will play atleast one game. --Djsasso 01:51, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Prodded, maybe, but I've certainly never seen one in an AfD.  The ones I do see on AfDs are soccer players at levels below the national premierships, which get passed as a matter of course.    RGTraynor  02:13, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Is this taken care of? I'd like to comment on any AFDs. ccwaters 12:14, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

text: The main notability talk page is here; I've also participated in a recent secondary discussion on athletes in particular, which didn't come remotely close to a consensus on the issue, in part because of factional conflicts between sports with weak or no minor league systems (football, basketball), sports with strong minor league systems (baseball, hockey) and sports where the concept of "minor leagues" don't follow North American models (soccer, for one).    RGTraynor  13:38, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It would probably be WP:BIO, but I have to ask is this really an issue? You'll only find the occasional AHLer article and hardly any for lower leagues. ccwaters 13:39, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well it's an issues if people are proposing deleting of AHL players, isn't it? --Mus Musculus (talk) 15:22, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent prods of AHLers 

message: I have recently overhauled the page of family relations, and would like to move it to peer review shortly.  I wanted the input of WikiProject members before doing so, however.  See my comments on the talk page to see the changes made to the article. Anthony Hit me up... 12:21, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[List of family relations in the National Hockey League]] 

message: We have a drive-by page move at Jaromír Jágr. I don't know the complete history of the discussions involving diacritics nor do I have time for a lot of reading, so I will let someone who has been with the project longer handle it. --Mus Musculus (talk) 19:57, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: At Wikipedia: WikiProject Ice Hockey/Player pages format, a gentlemens agreement was reached, to allow each NHL player page decide for itself (by majority opinon), to use OR not use a diacriticals title (also it was agreed to keep 'diacriticals' off the NHL team pages 'Current Roster' section). Whenever a page is 'moved' (as Jagr was), it should only occur after a consensus for the movement is reached. Just my opinon. GoodDay 20:44, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  At it again