Talk:William Sargant

message: Multiple inaccuracies abound in this article.  Either delete it and start again, or edit extensively.  Sargant was not a brainwasher, and his book on abreactive therapy had nothing to do with the implantation of false memories. The article must be changed to reflect that.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.114.20.121 (talk • contribs) 
:Why didn't you sign your posting?  Please provide references that contrast with the article.--AI 02:50, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I recommend reading Darius Rejali's Torture and Democracy for an evaluation of Sargant(Rejali 75-76, 135, etc): I think there's little doubt that Sargant had a strong interest in brainwashing for intelligence work. What Rejali points out, though, is that brainwashing is largely a myth. jackbrown (talk) 12:58, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Multiple

message: Clarified where he was expert. --Irmgard 09:00, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Redundancy is not clarification: Psychological Medicine.--AI 20:07, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Founder and Director of the Department of Psychological Medicine 

message: Moved here as no evidence for it. The fact that his literature has been used by the British Intelligence Service does not make him a consultant. --Irmgard 09:00, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Restored, please see references.--AI 20:07, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  British Secret Intelligence Service  

message: Put the quote from the senate hearing in correct context. --Irmgard 09:00, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: And at the same time you damaged the wikilinks. Sneaky vandalism? Reverted.--AI 20:07, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  U.S. Senate hearing 

message: Edited the see also - removed not connected, added religious conversion which subject he did work on. --Irmgard 09:09, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The links under See also are related.--AI 20:07, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  See also 

message: M E M 0 R A N D U M
TO: Eric Olson
FROM: Gordon Thomas
c.c.: To Whom Else It Concerns
DATE: 30th November 1998
OVERVIEW
This memo sets out the information provided by both Dr William Sargant, consultant psychiatrist, and William Buckley, former Station Chief of the CIA in Beirut, Lebanon. Both believed your father was murdered by the CIA.
:Reference: http://www.frankolsonproject.org/Statements/Statement-G.Thomas.html
Please conduct more research before you remove content from this article.  Contributions would be more welcome than censorship.  If you believe information should not be presented, then discuss it here, give us your argument, and provide references.--AI 20:07, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: We've had an email to Wikimedia questioning this article.  I think it would be worth carefully reviewing the references and sources used, and ensuring that all facts here are correct.  the particluar points in question are:
* were mind control experiments undertaken at at St Thomas'?
* was he a consultant to the British Intelligence Service?
* was he at the 1977 Senate hearing, or was it just that his book was referenced?
-- sannse (talk) 18:58, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: e-mail and Disptuted

message: ::It is not my habit to remove external links.
::In this one however we read :  William Sargant describes a technique (...)called Aberactive Therapy...which stands for Abnormal Reaction Theraphy 
::The technique described in "Battle for the Mind"  is  abreactive treatment , for which several papers are cited:
:::H.A.Palmer (1945):  Abreactive  techniques -Ether 
:::Shorvon and Sargant (1947): Exitatory  Abreaction : Special reference to its Mechanism and the use of Ether.
:::Sargant (1950):Indications and Mechanisms of  Abreaction  and its Relation to the Shock Therapies
::To do justice to William Sargant it would have been better to refer to his remark on The Prevention of Conversion, Brain-washing and Confessions:
::: The obstacles that the religious or political proselytizer cannot overcome are indifference or detached, controlled and continued amusement on the part of the subject at the efforts made to break him down (...) The safety of the free world seems therefor to lie in a cultivation not only of courage, moral virtue and logic, but of humour: humour which produces the well-balanced state in which emotional excess is laughed at as ugly and wasteful. 
:::in: Battle for the Mind
::Thus, the link is not merely removed but laughed away as well
::con gusto,
::Lunarian (talk) 11:04, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Aberactive Phlegm

message: Has anyone got a copy of Dominic Streatfeild's Brainwash apparently quite well researched and deals in some detail with Sargant.
Streatfeild contributes to James Maw's documentary on Sargant. Might be useful as an authoritative source.
The documentary, which is very good, is available here: 
[[User:Freekra|Freekra] (talk) 11:44, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dominic Streatfeild Brainwash 

message: Gordon Thomas, Mindfield (www.http://mindfield.com –about.com)
The link to the Gordon Thomas article is broken so I removed it and placed it here, if someone else wants to track it down. It was the third source given for footnote number 4.Freekra (talk) 11:55, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mindfield Link is broken 

message: I think that it would be of benefit if we could have reproduced here, if possible, some direct quotation from the secondary sources supporting the statements tying Sargant to involvement in the MK-ULTRA programme. Also, if possible, it might be useful to see what primary sources these authors cite in support of these statements.
It is important to make the distinction here between Sargant and Cameron having contact and exchange of ideas (especially regarding depatterning) and Sargant actually being involved in MK-ULTRA at some kind of official level. I think the constant references to MK-ULTRA maybe somewhat misleading. It is absolutely appropriate for Cameron. I think it might be less justified for Sargant.
From my own very limited research it would seem far more likely to me that if Sargant was involved with the security services in such programmes it was likely to be British ones. Moreover, it would seem that while such an association is actually likely to have been made during the start of WWII after his publications on abreaction with service personnel the evidence is mostly circumstantial and it is possible that any documentary evidence that might once have existed has been deliberately destroyed. 
St. Thomas: factually this section is mostly uncontroversial. However, some aspects are a bit misleading, I think. Sargant was, at this time, working for the NHS after all, not for any secret service organisation, and that should be emphasised. In fact, in my opinion this section is far more important - and damning of Sargant - than any purported direct link to MK-ULTRA. Freekra (talk) 12:11, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on William Sargant. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110430123130/http://www.dominicstreatfeild.com/2010/11/12/interview-with-mi6-psychiatrist/ to http://www.dominicstreatfeild.com/2010/11/12/interview-with-mi6-psychiatrist/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110430123118/http://www.dominicstreatfeild.com/2010/11/12/interview-with-nightingale-nurse-number-1/ to http://www.dominicstreatfeild.com/2010/11/12/interview-with-nightingale-nurse-number-1/
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The article's introduction currently explains that Sargant is a controversial figure partly because of "his reliance on dogma rather than clinical evidence[2]", citing the introduction to a textbook he co-authored in 1944. Although I do not have this particular edition on hand to check, I highly doubt it says either of (a) "I rely on dogma" or (b) "I am controversial" and so I suggest deleting this claim or finding a proper source. 111.65.37.26 (talk)
I also think that this passage only shows, by itself, an unjustified negative prejudice against Sargant. At the contrary, in his "Battle for the Mind" he tries to give multiple pieces of evidence, and taken from many fields, supporting his insights on how stress and trauma are used to manipulate people's views, and how dogmatic ideas frequently come from that. This is not "relying on dogma", but quite the contrary. I would suggest cutting this passage, or providing the text supporting this statement.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Annabyby (talk • contribs) 17:14, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Reliance on dogma"