Talk:George W. Romney

message: How can Romney run for the Republican nomination for president in 1968 if he was born in Mexico?  --Lst27 [19:47, April 4, 2004]
If one of the parents are U.S. citizens, the child can claim U.S. citizenship, no matter where the birth occurs. Bkonrad | Talk 19:51, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eligibility for president 

message: There is a list of references at the bottom, but this page does not conform to the standard sourcing of Wikipedia. This needs to be corrected. 68.227.248.58 04:53, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sourcing 

message: Shouldn't his lieutenant governor, Thaddeus John Lesinski, be mentioned in this article?  One interesting fact about him is that he was a democrat and defeated Romney's running mate.  tjl82090 | talk [19:16, December 8, 2006]
:That's now in there, as part of showing that Romney often ran better in the state than other Republicans.  Wasted Time R (talk) 11:55, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mention lieutenant governor 

message: This is an informative piece. I have one criticism: The reference to "The Manchurian Candidate" isn't really a propos. The film was about brainwashing in the Korean War, not the Vietnamese. Besides, the film was, as I understand it, taken out of distribution with the assassination of JFK. Not many Americans had seen it until its reissue, in 1987, I believe. I don't think many people would have associated Romney's "brainwashing" with the film. jp   [05:36, February 14, 2007 John f. phillips]
:The source for this connection is given in the article.  That it's about Korea not Vietnam is irrelevant, it's the power that brainwashing is given within popular culture that matters.  The "out of circulation due to JFK assassination" is apparently a myth, and between the 1959 novel and the 1962 film many Americans had read or seen it by 1967.  Furthermore, it became (and still is) a cultural touchstone, so that even people who haven't seen it know about brainwashing, know what the Queen of Diamonds is a reference to, and so forth.  Wasted Time R (talk) 01:49, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Manchurian Candidate relevancy 

message: I've made a post similar to this one over at Talk:John Swainson.  This news article from 1963  describes George Romney declining the invitation to accompany Martin Luther King on the "Walk for Freedom."  Romney declined because, as a Mormon, he did not wish to walk on a Sunday.  That was the reason as reported at the time by the NY Times, as repeated here: .  So I'm going to edit the George Romney article to reflect the fact that Mitt Romney is wrong on this point about his father. Qworty (talk) 02:02, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That makes no sense.  Putting criticism of Mitt Romney in this page which is not about him? Arzel (talk) 03:53, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  George Romney never marched with MLK 

message: "Romney was born in Colonia Dublán, Galeana, in the Mexican state of Chihuahua to Gaskell Romney (1871-1955), an American of English ancestry, and wife Anna Amelia Pratt (1876-1926), born to a New England and Scottish father and a German mother."
I thought this was only acceptable (atleast in America) if you are ethnically Mexican. If Mother Theresa who was born in the Republic of Macedonia) came to the US, she herself and I believe most Americans would consider her Albanian-American not Macedonian-American (because she was born in Skopje, Macedonia), or Indian-American (because that's where she was a missionary).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.121.247.116 (talk) 20:31, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree.  "Mexican-American" implies ethnicity to most readers, and Romney was not ethnically Mexican in any way.  I have changed the wording and added a sentence in the Intro explaining the location of his birth.  --BlueMoonlet (t/c) 16:58, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

text: He lived in Mexico for the first 4-5 years of his life, which hardly makes him Mexican.  Calling him a Mexican-American businessman is confusing to many readers.  It's a red herring and doesn't belong in the first sentence of the article.  It is already in other parts of the article, which is sufficient.--Ewick12 (talk) 01:42, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

text: We go by what other established, mainstream sources say, and they have never referred to George Romney as a "Mexican American".  Look through this New York Times archive search, there are no hits for that usage (the occurrences you get are all of something different).  Or try this Google News Archive search, same thing.  During his lifetime and since, George Romney has always been characterized as an American who happened by historical circumstances to be born in Mexico, and not as a Mexican American.  The second paragraph of the lead makes clear that he was born in Mexico, but the first sentence should just say American.  Wasted Time R (talk) 02:20, 18 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Does the fact that hes born in Mexico make him a "Mexican-American"? 

message: I'd love to know something about George W. Romney's formative years.
What places did he live?  What schools did he attend?  What stands out from his youth?  What were his parents' occupations?  Cumbre (talk) 20:19, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This material has been added, as part of my ongoing expansion of the article.  Wasted Time R (talk) 11:53, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Terribly sketchy early history! 

message: Paragraph 4+5 discuss his faith.  Paragraph 6 discusses his political aspirations.  
We should create a new section for paragraph 4+5 or merge it with the section on Missionary work, marriage and family, early career.
paragraph 6 might be better at the start of Governor of Michigan.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mantion (talk • contribs) 19:16, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The article is organized chronologically, and he did all those things at the same time that he was American Motors Corporation CEO.  Thus they can go into the same section, and doing so conveys how busy he was and how involved he was in the state's business, religious, and civic life.  Wasted Time R (talk) 21:29, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  American Motors Corporation CEO 

message: Due to a mention about this article in a blog, I am semi-protecting it to avoid a SNAFU. Bearian (talk) 20:44, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protection 

message: The article reads that Romney "was introduced to members of the peerage and the Oxford Group." I am not sure what "the peerage" is unless this is a grammatical problem. My bigger question is, what makes his meeting members of the Oxford Group relevant? Did he associate with them or write about his being impressed by their positions? A little clarification should be there.--Canadiandy talk 15:57, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: 'The peerage' simply means members of the British peerage.  The biographical relevance is that it shows that Romney was able to make upward social connections (even when he was abroad), something that happened at several times during his early life.  This goes to explain in part how someone of humble upbringing and little collegiate education was able to become so successful.  Wasted Time R (talk) 02:44, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, Wasted Time R. The term British peerage is a new one to me, had to look it up. Could we simply use the term 'British nobility'? Also, in looking into the history of the Oxford group it seems more like a gathering of individuals with a fringe religious perspective. If the point is that he made connections with prominent members of the community, maybe this rewording;
"Romney experienced British sights and culture and was introduced to prominent members of the community [37] including members of the British nobility."
Is this helpful?--Canadiandy talk 20:12, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

text: I've linked peerage, so that anyone who doesn't know what it means can easily find out.  As for "prominent members of the community", that could mean a dozen different kinds of people.  I think it's better to keep it more specific, which is what the underlying book source did.  Wasted Time R (talk) 03:21, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I like the link to peerage. Good move. --Canadiandy talk 22:12, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oxford Group relevance. 

message: There is a move discussion in progress that indirectly affects this page. Please participate at Talk:George Romney#Requested move and not in this talk page section. Thank you. older ≠ wiser 21:01, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move discussion in progress 

message: A paragraph in the section reads "As World War II raged overseas, Romney (who was soon beyond draft age...." In World War II, the draft age was 18 to 44. Since George Romney wasn't 44 until the time of the Korean War, this is false.Shemp Howard, Jr. (talk) 15:39, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The Harris bio says "Soon beyond draft age, he never went into the Army."  The Selective Training and Service Act of 1940 went into effect in October 1940.  From the Army Selectee's Handbook of 1943, the draft age was 21 to 36 at that point, and Romney was 33.  In December 1941, following Pearl Harbor, the upper limit was raised to 45.  So the Harris statement doesn't really hold, and another editor has commented out the assertion in the article.  Maybe Romney was eligible but wasn't selected by lottery.  More likely is that by the time of the draft, Romney had already helped start the Automotive Committee for Air Defense, and the powers that be realized he would be far more valuable in that industrial planning and mobilization effort than he would be cleaning latrines in Fort Swamp somewhere.  Wasted Time R (talk) 15:28, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Automotive industry representative" section error 

message: I edited two instances in this article that could lead a reasonable reader to think that the LDS church officially thought that black people were inferior to white people and that the LDS church had an official stance against the civil rights movement. Stapley's letter to Romney wasn't sent as some sort of official pronouncement of the church's position. It was sent as one individual to another individual. He says as much in the letter: http://mormonmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/delbert_stapley.pdf. I also changed the statement that inferred that the past church policy on black people necessarily suggests that the church taught that they were inferior. That is a matter of debate. It's enough to say that his personal experiences shaped his willingness to support the civil rights movement without bringing in the highly debatable idea that the LDS church taught that black people were inferior. Cominginsecond (talk) 20:37, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm okay with your first change to add the 'some' in his church; Stapley's position will speak for itself, regardless of whether it was an official letter or not.  (And Stapley's words in that letter also speak for themselves; I hope every reader of this article clicks through to it and sees what he was about.)  But I have restored the other text you deleted, which says simply "... had given him a different perspective from the LDS Church policy on blacks".  It does not say what that policy was, or say anything about black people being inferior.  Readers can click through to the Blacks and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints article to find more.  But LDS policy singled out blacks as the one racial group that could not serve in an essential lay position within the church, and regardless of whether it was because they thought blacks were 'inferior' or something else, that can't be ignored.  As for the church's stance on the civil rights movement in general, from what I've read they paid some token lip service to it but did very little in practice.  In any case, all that this article implies is that Romney's civil rights activism was something different from what the church leadership was saying and doing, and I think that's a fair description.   Wasted Time R (talk) 03:54, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Here is the restored text: "His hardscrabble background and subsequent life experiences had given him a different perspective from the LDS Church policy on blacks;[15] he reflected, "It was only after I got to Detroit that I got to know Negroes and began to be able to evaluate them and I began to recognize that some Negroes are better and more capable than lots of whites."" First off, how does a "policy" have a perspective? The policy was that black people could not serve in the priesthood. The perspective that fueled that policy was that black people had the curse of Cain. So, unless what followed was Romney's refutation of the idea that black people had the curse of Cain, his statement was not a "different perspective." The restored statement clearly infers that the LDS policy on blacks represents a perspective that differs from the idea that black people are not inherently less capable than white people. Even if it doesn't say what the policy was, the contrast inherent in the sentence implies that the LDS church believed that black people were inherently inferior. That implication is highly debatable. I'll change it to this: "Although he belonged to a church that did not allow black people to serve in its priesthood, George Romney's hardscrabble background and subsequent life experiences led him to support civil rights, he reflected..." 174.47.80.194 (talk) 23:26, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm okay with your change, but I restored the link to the Black people and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints article and I substituted "lay clergy" for "priesthood" because it gets the idea across better to those not familiar with the LDS church.  Wasted Time R (talk) 01:54, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Perfect. Thank you. 96.18.106.213 (talk) 06:17, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Implications that the LDS church thought black people were inferior or that there was an official church position against the civil rights movement 

message: Shd infobox go, first, gov'ship; second, cabinet sec'y (e.g., cf. Howard Baker...)?--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 05:05, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I tried looking in WP:MOSBIO but didn't see anything.  Jack Kemp is GA and has been through several FAC's and has HUD on top of more renowned Congressional career.  Edmund Muskie has Sec State on top, even though far more important as senator.  I think most articles do reverse chrono, so I would leave this article's infobox the way it is.  Wasted Time R (talk) 05:35, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: User Wasted Time R wrote "I think most articles do reverse chrono...."</p>Senator is more important than sec'y of state? Backbencher (Ron Paul, Michele Backmann) than cabinet member? No, one's got to enjoy the kind of institutional clout Paul Ryan does for member of lower House to rival a top admin post, in my opinion. And w/rgd to every case I surfed to, where the situation is similar to George's, chronological sequencing was adjusted by consensus of page editors to give top billing whatever post is indisputably the most important: along with Baker there is "Howard Dean," "[[George J. Mitchell," "Jerry Brown," "Grover Cleveland," "John Quincy Adams." Then there is "Jon Huntsman, Jr. (which, if I had the ambition to be snipey, I'd try to insinuate was an outlier rendered in that fashion by...you[? JOKE!....]).--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 11:40, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, I'll accept that WP is gloriously inconsistent in this area.  So if you want to change this one, go ahead.  Wasted Time R (talk) 12:44, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, WTR. (On an unrelated topic, I secretly sort of wish the Romney family article doesn't survive its AFD--since I belong to another family. ;~)--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 00:10, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  More renown as gov? 

message: but here is Geo's piece written for the Det Free Press: "My religion is my most important possession. ..."--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 10:08, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for spotting this.  Parts of the quote were in the article already, but in a rearranged form that the Time cover story used.  This is better and I've redone the quote and cited this directly.  Wasted Time R (talk) 12:11, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some editors have probably seen this... 

message: *There has been some scuttlebutt in the press recently  questioning whether George Romney was a legal immigrant to the United States.  Was hoping someone could point me to something definitive on this?  The laws on immigration at that time were no doubt much more lax than today.--Milowent • hasspoken 14:40, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Accdg to my understanding, Romney pere's folks, Gaskell Romney and Anna Pratt (Romney fils's grandfolks), could choose[Edited: perhaps could not choose] to become Mexican citizens (perhaps [Edited: only because] this would have involved their giving up their American citizenship to do so, at the time? I'm not sure), but, in any case, that's not what they decided to do, becoming Mexican residents but staying American nationals. When pere George was born, he could apply (his parents could apply for---, on his behalf? or, after reaching majority could apply---?) for Mexican citizenship. But, if done, at that time, he wouldn't have been able to get American citizenship because Mexico didn't allow dual citizenship. So, when, during the tumult of the Mexican Revolution, many American nationals living in Chihuahua returned to the U.S. as refugees, so did the c. 5-years old George Romney (in 1912), as an American citizen, never applying for Mexican citizenship in the first place. (George had not learned to  speak Spanish, at that time--although Romney cousins still in Mexico, unlike Romney pere and fils, are biligual in that language and English).--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 22:44, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

text: Category:American expatriates in Mexico?
(Also please see the Request for Comment on the Mitt Romney blp's talkpage here: Talk:Mitt_Romney#.22Of_Mexican_descent.22_category.)--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 04:57, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Category:American expatriates in Mexico makes sense to me, :Category:American people of Mexican descent  does not.  Wasted Time R (talk) 13:12, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

text: I believe that intermarriage with mestizos (or full-blooded Spanish-Mexicans, for that matter) has become more prevalent among the American Latter-day Saints that returned to Chihuahua after the revolution. IAC since there is not an existing wikipage comparable to, say, :Category:American people of Mexican-Jewish descent, the factually correct, dueling cats "American expatriates in Mexico" - "Mexican expatriates in the United States" might have to be the extent of George's bio's Mexican-US categorization, I suppose.--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 19:47, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

text: "In the Nuevo Casas Grandes area, about half the Mormon land is owned by Mormons of Mexican descent. The rest is owned by Mormons of American descent."---William Stockton, The New York Times, 1986--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 02:07, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think they ever considered themselves Mexican expatriates in the United States.  Rather, George Romney often self-identified, as the article says, as one of "the first displaced persons of the 20th century."  There's a :Category:Displaced Persons camps but I don't see any :Category:Displaced persons.  Might be a little hard to define and would need to come with some other well-known examples.  Wasted Time R (talk) 01:39, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Immigration status 

message: :Category:American expatriates in Mexico?
(Also please see the Request for Comment on the Mitt Romney blp's talkpage here: Talk:Mitt_Romney#.22Of_Mexican_descent.22_category.)--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 04:57, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Category:American expatriates in Mexico makes sense to me, :Category:American people of Mexican descent  does not.  Wasted Time R (talk) 13:12, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe that intermarriage with mestizos (or full-blooded Spanish-Mexicans, for that matter) has become more prevalent among the American Latter-day Saints that returned to Chihuahua after the revolution. IAC since there is not an existing wikipage comparable to, say, :Category:American people of Mexican-Jewish descent, the factually correct, dueling cats "American expatriates in Mexico" - "Mexican expatriates in the United States" might have to be the extent of George's bio's Mexican-US categorization, I suppose.--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 19:47, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

text: "In the Nuevo Casas Grandes area, about half the Mormon land is owned by Mormons of Mexican descent. The rest is owned by Mormons of American descent."---William Stockton, The New York Times, 1986--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 02:07, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think they ever considered themselves Mexican expatriates in the United States.  Rather, George Romney often self-identified, as the article says, as one of "the first displaced persons of the 20th century."  There's a :Category:Displaced Persons camps but I don't see any :Category:Displaced persons.  Might be a little hard to define and would need to come with some other well-known examples.  Wasted Time R (talk) 01:39, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is the proper Wikipedia category relating to  Romney's nation of origin? 

message: I  have a dream this afternoon that one day right here in Detroit, Negroes will be able to buy a house or rent a house anywhere that their money will carry them and that they will be able to get a job.---LINK</p>Caption: "MLK's first rendition of the I have a Dream Speech in Detroit MI, June 23rd 1963. It was released by Gordy records, a subsidiary of Motown and can therefore be considered an early Motown single." [Transcription from point 0:20 of audio clip]A letter to King in '67 disparaging Romney's church--Mormons'--then- deplorable stance toward people of color: here (link; a stance which Romney himself was very much in disagreement with; see here). IAC was Nixon's offer/R's acceptance of HUD post ('68) due desires to help implement equal housing legisltn, in response to the era's civ. rights movement?--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 01:06, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: As the article says, "In actuality, Nixon distrusted Romney politically, and appointed him to a liberally-oriented, low-profile federal agency partly to appease Republican moderates and partly to reduce Romney's potential to challenge for the 1972 Republican presidential nomination."  But the Edris Head letter to MLK did give a useful pointer to a 1967 episode of Romney criticizing Udall's public denunciation of the church policy, so I've included that in the article.  (Romney was the kind of guy who would want change very much, but also want it in the proper way.)  Wasted Time R (talk) 02:27, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  MLK speech, Detroit, June 1963 

message: In paragraph four of the section on his 1968 presidential campaign, is it necessary to use the word "oaf"?  The phrase "gaffe-prone" seems accurate enough without descending to pettiness.Asburyparker (talk) 01:39, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: If it's a true representation of what was written about his campaign then it deserves to be in here.  George Romney was a man of many admirable accomplishments throughout his life, and the fact that he was a lousy presidential candidate doesn't erase any of that.  But let me double-check the sources on it.  Wasted Time R (talk) 04:57, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

text: I disagree with you in general – in politics, perception is at least as important as reality, and if a perception grows and takes over a campaign, that's all she wrote, and WP articles have to describe that happening.  However, in this particular instance (now that my library book transfer has come in), the Witcover characterization of Romney as "a kind of oafish plodder" is one that no other source makes in quite that way, and the idea that Romney kept plodding along to almost the bitter end is already conveyed by later text in the article.  So I agree that this particular characterization is not adequately supported or necessary, and I've removed it.  Thanks for bringing this up.  Wasted Time R (talk) 01:33, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  unnecessary insult? 

message: If the article states that both parents were natural born American citizens (I can't remember if it does or not), I believe the wording would need to be tweaked...wrt the circumstances by which Anna remained/became a US citizen. That is, it may be in dispute whether she was natural born American or whether she gained her American citizenship through marriage to Gaskell, who himself was a natural-born US citizen. This question arises because of the fact that Anna's father became a naturalized Mexican citizen (and, this at a time when it was relatively rare for a North American or European nationale to do so--or so I believe). (...Also, her brother, at least, spoke flawless Spanish: . ((Also interesting--well, at least to me, lol--is that rey is Spanish for "king" and that his middle name, Lucero, is also the Spanish word for "light.")))--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 14:30, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The article just says they were American citizens.  Wasted Time R (talk) 14:45, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmmm. Anna's papá became naturalized the "seventh day of September, 1897," when living (I think?) in the colonies. (It'd been back in 1886, when he'd been down in the capital, that [..according to whatever primary source is cited by Byron McNeil, of course..] he--Helaman Pratt--had "purchased 49,000 acres in the name of The Trustee in Trust of The Church...for $12,000.") So, let's see-- (Somebody recently deleted Rey's and Anna's vital information from the Pratt family article so it took me a tiny- um -ly greater bit of surfing to look it up, but-- ) Anna and her brother Rey were both indeed obviously natural-born American citizens, having been born in 1878 and 1876, respectively, up in the States (well rather at Salt Lake City, Ut. Terr.).</p>Nonetheless, with their father's living not in the colonies but Ciuda'd de Me'xico - 1883-1887, while Anna was approx. 7 to 12, I would not be terribly surprised if she was also able to speak Spanish at least a little, unlike what "our" (WP's) Geo. Romney bio states .....even if she did not eventually become as proficient in the language as Rey did: who, obv., lived in Mexico City between the time he was about 5-10.--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 23:20, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I've removed the 'family did not speak Spanish' from the article.  It was weakly sourced (as what Mitt believes) in the AP piece.  Wasted Time R (talk) 14:08, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmmm, w/rgd Anna's  siblings being bi-lingual or not: Apparently the family didn't need to speak Spanish because the long-term Mexican neighbors all spoke perfect English!</endfacetiousness> Here's a quote from the very opening of Anna's little sister (the wife of Dilworth Young)'s memoirs:Once an old Mexican man came to our house and knocked on our door. When I answered, I said, "Buenos dias, Sen~o'r," and he said, "Buenos dias, Nin~a." I could see that he had many, many bird cages piled one on top of the other, and he was carrying them on a long pole. Inside each bird cage was a bird. Some of the cages had pretty grey birds in them, and some had red birds. The red birds had little top knots on the top of thier heads and very sharp beaks with which to eat seeds. The Mexican man took the bird cages off the pole one at a time and set them upon the porch floor. Then he said, "All my birds sing. They all have a beautiful song. Will you buy one of my birds to sing for you each day? My birds sing most all day, and while they are singing, you never get lonesome. Will you buy one, please?" "Just a moment," I said. "I will catch my mother and ask her."----LINKThen in chapter 5: the last thing I can remember of our first nite’s camp was the lovely sound of my mother’s and my brothers’ voices singing together there by the firelight under the beautiful moon. They sang all the Spanish songs they had learned in Mexico, and they were lovely songs, like La Golondrina, La Paloma, Cielito Lindo, and the Fandango. I believe I will never hear any more beautiful music than I heard those nites as they sang together to the music of Carl’s guitar.Actually, it's amazing how well the author, Gladys (Pratt) Young, can remember snippets of dialogue in a language she doesn't even understand.</facetious> From a few chapters later: When the Mexican children saw me coming, they came out to meet me with gay calls of “Qué hubole, amiga mía!” They took me by the hand and led me into the cabin. There the mamas and the older sisters were busy grinding parched corn into a fine meal. They ground it by pushing back and forth the corn between a long, smooth, partly round stone called a mano, and a rough, partly hollow stone called a metate that looked something like a bowl. The corn was warm, and so they scooped up a handful of it and gave it to me to eat. This is called pinole. They gave me also a big piece of sweet cane sugar that is called piloncillo. I thanked them and wandered back toward the cabin, eating my pinole and piloncillo.A local Apache is described to Gladys by her mother as belonging to a group of natives that were called apachurreros de huesos, which means crushers of bones, because that is what they did to their victims when they captured them. [Continuing with her mother's story]: Now it so happened that the little girl, eight years old, saw that her little brother, six years old, had been hurt. The Indians were busy with the other people of the house, and so they didn’t pay close attention to these two children. So the little girl dragged the little boy to the chicken coop nearby, tore her apron in wide pieces of cloth, wrapped them tightly around the bleeding wound in the boy’s hip, and then covered him all over with straw.--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 03:23, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-redux 

message: To say that R. was American Motors' chief executive officer is not wrong but the term/initialism itself is fairly, if not wholly, anachronistic.(((...........  To check, I first GoogleNews'd
#"George Romney" "CEO" w custom range 1960-1970 and https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&gl=us&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F1%2F1960%2Ccd_max%3A1%2F1%2F1970&tbm=nws&q="George+Romney"++"CEO"&oq="George+Ro got one hit, for the So. Vietnamese prime minister with Ceo at the end of his name--vs. 
# https://www.google.com/search?q="George+Romney"++"Chairman+of+American"&hl=en&gl=us&sa=X&ei=2-E3T6rvA6jW0QHzhrTbAg&ved=0CBYQpwUoCw&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F1 10 hits for "George Romney" "chairman of American," 
# https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&gl=us&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F1%2F1960%2Ccd_max%3A1%2F1%2F1970&tbm=nws&q="George+Romney"++"president+of+American 122 hits for "George Romney" "president of American," 
# https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&gl=us&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F1%2F1960%2Ccd_max%3A1%2F1%2F1970&tbm=nws&q="George+Romney"++"Motors+president"&oq=" 46 hits for "George Romney" "Motors president," and
# https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&gl=us&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F1%2F1960%2Ccd_max%3A1%2F1%2F1970&tbm=nws&q="George+Romney"++"manager+of+American"&o 4 hits for "George Romney"  "manager of American."</small>--Hodgson-Burnett's Secret Garden (talk) 16:17, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree completely, I missed this.  "President and chairman" was his title at the time, and I've added the NYT announcement of same as a cite.  Looking in the NYT archives, the general phrase "chief executive" was used occasionally, but not the acronym itself.  I've revised the article accordingly.  Wasted Time R (talk) 16:45, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should we choose a period-appropriate executive position title instead of ''CEO'' for historical accuracy? 

message: From this piece I've gleaned the names of Thomas Mellon Evans, Charles Green (financier) (c. 1909–1980), Art Landa, Leopold D. Silberstein, Louis E. Wolfson, and Robert R. Young and I'll try to find out what that era's sharks um vultures no...  marauders were called. '~) <--that's a wink!--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 05:11, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Update - I tried this, I dunno..--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 06:07, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The Time magazine cover story on Romney says "Just when American was in deepest trouble, Raider Louis Wolfson appeared on the scene ..."  Time had used the term 'raider' going back to at least 1956 to describe Wolfson, see this piece.  So I don't think it's an anachronism to use this wording.  I don't know where "uncourted takeover" comes from, it seems to be a phrase of your own invention and something only Miss Manners would say.  Wasted Time R (talk) 12:10, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Knew phrase wouldn't do when I contributed it. (Alas, resulting from an attempt to be straightfoward, instead it indeed comes off as an attempt at a coinage. Ironically. See wp:NEO.)--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 21:29, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Hostile takeover"-ers called...What?...at the midpoint of the 20th c.?  

message: Somebody quantified them (per genealogical researcher Wm. Reitwiesner) as37.5% Scotland12.5% Colonial-Yankee25% England25% German.Fwiw.--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 20:40, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Tho this commenter believes Wilckens to hv been Danish.--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 20:46, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ethnicities 

message: My edit: Romney worked for McDonald's founder Ray Kroc and received a card allowing him free meals at McDonald's for life. Ref is http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/mitt-romney-dad-had-card-giving-him-free-202154090.html
Some guy named Wasted didn't want it.  I am not going to argue on this one because I don't care about Romney's dad.  By posting this, someone may possibly violently defend the deletion from the article.  However, I will not refute it.  I am merely posting the edit here.  
I request that there be a discussion ONLY if there is violent consensus for it (which there won't be).  If there isn't a strong force for inclusion, NO need to violently oppose it.  Auchansa (talk) 02:56, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I took it out because it didn't seem that important and also because the story and the timeline are vague.  Mitt says "My dad had done a little training lesson or whatever for McDonald's when there was just a handful of restaurants".   Kroc didn't get involved with McDonald's until 1955, by which time George was already CEO of American Motors.  So I don't think George "worked for" Kroc in the conventional sense.  Maybe he was giving best practices in management talks?  It's just not clear enough what actually happened here.  Wasted Time R (talk) 09:36, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  McDonald's for life 

message: The inclusion of information regarding George Romney's tax return filings for his Presidential bid were intended to further a political agenda. These lines should be deleted as they read as DNC campaign talking points and not as objective information.  [07:17, August 28, 2012‎ 50.136.78.177]
:This UPI story used as the source for the release in the article says it was "a move believed without precedent in American politics" and that "Gov. Romney was believed the first [presidential candidate] to make his income tax returns public".  It was written on November 26, 1967.  So it's an important, objective milestone on its own, regardless of what happened decades later with Mitt and the DNC.  Wasted Time R (talk) 10:34, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It was an oversight that it wasn't in the article before two months ago, when it was added.  Wasted Time R (talk) 11:16, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tax return information 

message: Can someone add in a cpsection explaining how many years of welfare relief the Romneys received, having arrived as refugees from Mexico. There must be federal records?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.177.109.114 (talk) 23:29, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added a source and expanded the article text to "The family subsisted with other Mormon refugees on government relief in El Paso, Texas,[20] benefiting from a $100,000 fund for refugees that the U.S. Congress had set up.[21]"  But I haven't seen anything on how long that relief program lasted.  Wasted Time R (talk) 00:36, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Early years of welfare relief 

message: When searched on Google the right side section on George Romney incorrectly says that he was a polygamist.  When you actually read the article it make it clear that its his grandfather that was a polygamist.  I do not know how to edit the screen seen on google.  Can anyone help?
Alma Mills  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.108.136.253 (talk) 15:17, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yikes, you're right: "George W. Romney [picture] [en.wikipedia.org] George Wilcken Romney was a polygamist Mexican-born American businessman and Republican Party politician. [Wikipedia]"  That's something Google abstracts and constructs, have no idea how it comes up with this, unless some nasty type has figured out some Googlebombish way of triggering that.  I guess the best thing you can do is send an email to Google.  (The "Mexican-born" shouldn't be in our first sentence either, per WP:OPENPARA, but during this election-time general probation period I can't keep reverting it.)   Wasted Time R (talk) 22:19, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I sent a note on this into Google's web search feedback tool ... don't know if that goes to humans or bots.  Wasted Time R (talk) 22:27, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  incorrect information regarding poligamy 

message: --Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 00:49, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the link to that piece - interesting if a bit overboard in places.  In any case, this article doesn't state that he walked out of the convention, so there is nothing to correct here.  The Bohrer piece does include a lot of detail on things that Romney almost did, or started to do and backed away from, or thought about doing, but I think in terms of the major things he actually did during 1964 and in the feud with Goldwater overall, this WP article is an accurate summary portrayal.  Wasted Time R (talk) 22:16, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Did not walk out of 64 GOP convention 

message: My knowledge of G.W. Romney is limited, but reading this article, I don't see how the word "struggled" is justified in the first section of the article when speaking of their life during the Great Depression. He seemed to be employed as a lobbyist in Washington, and not exactly struggling.  I have to argue it's not a neutral word. 173.190.150.172 (talk) 02:50, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The word is referring to his parent's struggles, starting from the time they came from Mexico to the U.S. as displaced persons through the onset of the Great Depression.  This culminates with the text: "George watched his parents fail financially in Idaho and Utah[30] and having to take a dozen years to pay off their debts.[31] Seeing their struggles influenced his life and business career.[29]"  So the article is saying that George seeing his parents struggling helped form his own high degree of self-motivation and desire to get ahead in the world.  Wasted Time R (talk) 10:59, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Struggled? 

message: How could he be president if he was born outside of the U.S.? Isn't this necessary to be able to be elected? 85.179.36.154 (talk) 18:56, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Not necessarily.  Discussed in the "1968 presidential campaign" section of this article, and the "Eligibility" section of the George Romney presidential campaign, 1968 article.  Wasted Time R (talk) 03:08, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mexico 

message: When I first saw this page listed, I assumed a vandal had made it. I didn't realize that George Romney's middle initial was "W"! LOL! The Wookieepedian (talk) 03:57, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: There was some vandalism with IP addresses changing "Romney" to "Bush".  Wasted Time R (talk) 11:25, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  For real