Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Opera/Archive 16

message: I just added an article for this opera.  Would someone please add it to the Rossini opera box and cast an editorial eye on it?  Thanks!  Best regards, -- Ssilvers 01:12, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done - Jay 02:05, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Il Signor Bruschino]]

message: I was searching the web for information on Karl Ridderbusch. (He is the only singer in the section on the project page asking for articles of whom I have several recordings and I think his Hagen and Fafner for Karajan certainly demonstrate the type of voice that deserves an entry.)  
Immediately after his death the opera-l list included various allegations about Hitler-worship (see various messages listed on http://listserv.cuny.edu/Scripts/wa.exe?A1=ind9706d&L=opera-l&D=1). These include an eye-witness account claiming to have seen a swastika tattoo; and direct quotes from an email by American opera critic Paul containing verbatim quotes from a fax by Gottfried Wagner who was approached after the tattoo allegation emerged. http://listserv.cuny.edu/Scripts/wa.exe?A1=ind9706d&L=opera-l&D=1
The remaining allegations seem to be more friend-of-a-friend without the person making the accusations naming their sources. But would the
Would such a source be regarded as appropriate to reference in a wiki-article? Peter cohen 13:21, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ridderbusch was born in 1932 so we are not dealing with a Nazi-period singer. There is a biography on the German WP which you might like to look at. I don't know any of the details here, but I don't think I'd want to quote Opera-L here. --Kleinzach 13:58, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. The German wiki page seems to be a rip-off of http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Bio/Ridderbusch-Karl.htm but I'll try to work out what extra information has been added and shall use his discography. -- Peter cohen 14:18, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  well, Karl Ridderbusch now exists and I've removed him from the project pages list of singers to do. One of you has already found his way to the new page. Others now welcome. -- Peter cohen 18:30, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  What counts as evidence? 

message: Is anyone working on the Composer of the Month project this month?  It appears that poor Jacques is quite neglected here on the English Wikipedia.  I worked on a couple of the articles, but most of the info available is in French.  No French speakers interested?  -- Ssilvers 13:12, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We have more Offenbach articles up than the French Wikipedia. There has been substantial work done on Offenbach in the last six weeks. Many of the articles are new. Much remains to be done, particularly adding synopses. --Kleinzach 14:09, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I certainly did not mean to criticize Kleinzach, who has been very productive, adding information to every article on Offenbach operettas and starting some new ones at the end of March and in the beginning of April.  However, only G. Tell and I have participated in this project with him thus far (and Jay -- see below), and April is nearly over.  Notwithstanding that French WP's offering of Offenbach is even weaker than EN WP's, Offenbach wrote dozens of successful operettas, and we only describe a small percentage.  So, what I am saying, is, how can we rally the troops to this effort?  Should we extend this Composer of the Month effort to May?  Just asking.  -- Ssilvers 22:09, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We have composers for May already decided. I'd also caution against starting stubs without basic information, though I'd guess there are four or five other titles which would be viable. (We have already covered all the works with articles in Grove.) What we really need is for people to sit down and listen to the works already stubbed (with the libretti!) and write synopses. Illlustrations as ever are needed, information about recent productions and recordings as well. --Kleinzach 23:43, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Is this for the biography page? Are you using the table in Grove or the websites? (BTW we don't use the sytem of capitalizing the second word, it's La chanson not La Chanson). --Kleinzach 23:43, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

text: The list of "Works" in the Jacques Offenbach article appears to list just the operettas (and Tales), so maybe we should change the heading?  Note that the third work you list above is shown as Le fifre enchanté, ou Le soldat magicien.  It would definitely be helpful to put a date next to each.  Personally, I agree that it would be good to give the number of acts, genre and librettist information, just the way you suggest.  -- Ssilvers 22:09, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd recommend adding any missing works. I compiled the original list some time ago (a lot of typing!). It probably needs checking! However I don't think it's necessary to duplicate information that is in the individual articles. --Kleinzach 23:43, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I have completed the compilation of Offenbach’s opera - not 100%, it is darn hard to gather info about him. But from sources (internet and old “opera” bible belong to my dad-dug out from his garage), I believe the list of work listed in Offenbach  biography  (under “Works” )  are mixed – opera, ballet, orchestra and other music works. I do not want to amend or delete them (except if they are repeated with my list in “List of opera” ).  Feel free to correct me if I am wrong or if the format is not right, it is really a big work since Offenbach info are not as easy to find compared to Verdi/Puccini/Handel (My favorite composers)  But one thing for sure is, some of the titles in my list and “works” are the same, it’s just that some were written in different language (French / German). - Jay 04:50, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am not sure I understand. The complete list of stage works on the Offenbach page is from Grove. This is authoritative. Are you proposing to move half of it to the navigation box? I'd recommend keeping the complete list complete, or completing it if it is not. I'd also suggest keeping the navigation box for navigating. Or have I misunderstood? (If you don't have Grove a lot of good information is available from the websites linked from the biography page.) -- Kleinzach 05:08, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Ah I see you have started a new list above the old one. I was confused. But can you please not use Boosey and Hawkes capitalization! We use Grove. We don't capitalize the second word in the title. Also you will find Les folies Offenbach better for info than Boosey which is a commercial site.--Kleinzach 05:32, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I have made some corrections, also added dates etc. Hope this helps. Your new list is very worthwhile and I applaud your courage in starting it, but I think it's difficult to do it accurately without using Andrew Lamb's table in Grove. --Kleinzach
Thanks for doing the editing for me; I was just finished translating “Falstaff” and “Un ballo in maschera” to Wiki ms and I thought I want to edit “The opera list”, but you have done it. I know about the “Grove online”, but I am not a subscriber. Probably I will buy the dictionary, someday - after finish buying all Domingo's opera DVDs (planned to have my own library of Domingo's books, CD and DVD) - Jay 07:43, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

text: That is a great addition, Jay.  I imagine more of the librettists could be blue-linked.  Best regards, -- Ssilvers 12:50, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have added Offenbach's opera navigation box (only the blue links). Also added Meyerbeer and Gluck. No more red links. - Jay 05:27, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

text: As no-one has come forward to do the English translations - and they are of dubious value anyway - I've gone ahead and deleted them. --Kleinzach 23:42, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Offenbach

message: As there are a quite a few people around, can we nail down the composer(s) for next month?
Candidates: Francesco Cavalli, Mozart, Joseph Haydn, Paul Hindemith, Marc-Antoine Charpentier, Johann Strauss II or Rossini individually, or 
Salieri, Sarti, Piccinni and Sacchini as a twin/triplet/quadruplet. Or . . . ? -- Kleinzach 11:04, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Of the above, I'm (operatically) interested in Mozart, J Strauss and Rossini.  But practically all opera composers and their operas could do with more attention.  So much to do, so little done! --GuillaumeTell 00:06, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: How about Mozart, since you list him first? --Kleinzach 14:08, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've now put WAM forward. --Kleinzach 02:47, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I've been charging through Verdi putting in the opera project banner. I noticed there were four or five minimal stubs in there (which I didn't banner). If people know those works, then it's worth having a Verdi month. -- Peter cohen 12:34, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I am sure there is a lot of work we can do on Verdi. How about July? What do other people think? --Kleinzach 13:08, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

text: We have three slots above, so we can fix August now if we like. --Kleinzach 13:48, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Again a personal point of view.  Verdi for July would suit me very well.  Of the 11 operas that don't have a detailed synopsis, I have programmes for 6 and recordings of another two.  It also seems to me that we could reasonably easily work some of the later operas up for GA or FA status (consigning Leo Melitz and his synopses to the bin as we do so). I would also be happy for the minor Italians to be done in August, as I'll be away a lot then and I know nothing about any of them except Salieri (and most of that comes from Amadeus!). --GuillaumeTell 15:19, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Suggestion for June composer: Giuseppe Verdi - He is the notable romantic composer but there are still many stubs in his opera list. I'd say the best opera composer, well at least to me. - Jay 14:50, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Thanks for putting Verdi on the list. He deserves that. I don’t think it is so difficult to find his works. I went to a book store last week; found a thick book about Verdi’s opera + complete librettos + images (can’t remember the title).  Perhaps I could help with Verdi’s - Jay 01:53, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not at all. Incidentally all 19th century pictures should be out of copyright, so there's lots of scope to add images. --Kleinzach 03:13, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Composer of the month for June (Part Two), July and August

message: Buenas tardes! I've designed a opera timeline in the spanish wikipedia. It has been a hard work, specially regarding the design. Suggestions are very welcome. I have some doubts and maybe here someone can help me to fill some gaps, for example: any noting french operas during classical period; is Il barbiere di... an classical period opera; is it woth noting Robert le diable; beyond Wozzeck, something very important to note... The problem with this timeline is that it's very important to choose the most important information (i don't know how to put one hundred operas here). Please, suggestions and comments are very, very welcome. If someone doesn't do it before, i'll translate the timeline to english very soon. Best regards, --Jdiazch 14:21, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a great undertaking. Congratulations. I hope having a timeline will mitigate against simplistic ideas still current on WP about the 'classical era' 'romantic era' etc. Nevertheless I have to say that I find the type very difficult to read because of the intersecting columns/lines. Perhaps it might be better with boxes? --Kleinzach 23:53, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's certainly a very good idea.  Certainly putting the names of the operas into boxes should help, and it would be good to have more of them, too (Monteverdi looks very lonely up at the top of the left-hand column!).  I'm a little distressed to see that opera ended with Turandot and Wozzeck - what about the later works of Strauss, plus Britten, Henze, Adams et al? --GuillaumeTell 13:29, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Another question is what dates to use. With Rheingold appearing after, Tristan und Isolde the sort is presumably by first performance date. But is composition date more useful? And the choice of national columns too is interesting. Works by Handel in Italian appear in the rest of the world column because they were premiered in England. Works by Mozart appear in the Italian column because of the  language. Aida remains in the Italian colum despite it's being composed for performance initially in Egypt. --Peter cohen 15:25, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I notice that some other options for timelines can be seen at :Category:Graphical timelines in music. --GuillaumeTell 17:09, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Opera timeline