Talk:Sagging (fashion)

message: This sounds like original research or some fringe idea.  The only thing connecting it to sagging is the last sentence.  Either way do we need a whole section summarizing the tignon law and its effect?Just reference the original article on tignon  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.171.106.70 (talk) 23:41, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Afro-Créole protest origins 

message: Why do we need 3 images? A couple months ago there was just 1 image, one on the right. --Mjrmtg (talk) 21:51, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Three images is certainly too much, though the images are probably just going to continue to be added by anons, so perhaps it's best to add a gallery of "examples". WTF? (talk) 15:40, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Images 

message: Wow. Do we really need 7 photos to demonstrate what it looks like when guys "(wear) trousers...below the waist...revealing much of the underwear"? It seems this page is quickly becoming a place for guys to post photos of themselves sagging. That's not what Wikipedia is for. Unless someone ould explain, based on policy, why we need so many, I propose we select one. My !vote is for :File:Boy sagging.jpg for the sole reason that it is most accurate: all of the others have the guys holding up their shirts. Comments? - SummerPhD (talk) 12:12, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: As I've stated before above, I think we only need 1 photo also. Anonymous users kept restoring images that a "gallery" section was added. 2 more photos were added last night. --Mjrmtg (talk) 12:30, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Which one do you believe best demonstrates sagging? - SummerPhD (talk) 13:07, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: My !vote is also for :File:Boy sagging.jpg. --Mjrmtg (talk) 13:40, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. I'll give it several days for other opinions. - SummerPhD (talk) 14:49, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

text: All of these photos show examples of extreme sagging, rather than the way trousers are often worn. We should find a different photo (and maybe leave one of the current examples, but label them as extreme) 85.2.232.240 (talk) 23:31, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: (1) Which photo would you propose keeping until we find a different photo? (2) Given that the article currently defines sagging as "hanging below the waist area and therefore revealing much of the underwear", what is your verifiable basis for labeling it "extreme"? - SummerPhD (talk) 00:44, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

text: Is your !vote, then, for one photo? If so, which one? As for the race issue, we're kinda stuck with the photos we have, unless an editor has a free image to add to the pool to choose from. (I'm not convinced it's "mostly African American" either. Yes, in the neighborhood areas of West Philly, it is mostly black guys. However, of the students in my classes and in areas of South Philly, it seems to be mostly white guys. Do you have a source to clarify this (other than Obama's use of "brothers")?) - SummerPhD (talk) 17:18, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

text: Pictures have to be licensed for free use. We can't just grab a picture from google images. --Mjrmtg (talk) 22:22, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it's just ridiculous when Wikipedia insists on approaching a "street subject" as if National Geographic or Popular Mechanics have researched it. 97.118.33.205 (talk) 23:54, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Then Wikipedia might not be the place for you. - SummerPhD (talk) 01:17, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Then YOU don't belong on this article. I'm sick of people like you hijacking places like this and creating self serving definitions of "encyclopedic". 97.118.33.205 (talk) 21:53, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Hijacking? What would you have this article look like? --Mjrmtg (talk) 22:25, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

text: If you feel the article can be improved by removing referenced material and replacing it with what you or anyone else knows about the subject, you will first need to find a consensus of editors agreeing to this or to change Wikipedia's policies (actually, the whole concept underlying Wikipedia). You may, of course, edit the article to your liking without doing this. Your edits will be reverted. - 00:57, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Reverted by who and why? Stop ignoring sources and lying about the consensus. Thank you. 97.118.33.205 (talk) 21:29, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: What sources are you talking about? Or are these sources you are going to provide? --Mjrmtg (talk) 22:24, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The photos are ridiculous. Is Wikipedia worried about being "racist". Sorry but sagging is best demonstrated in "hip hop" fashion. 184.96.228.177 (talk) 15:54, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Photos

message: But the most likely explanation is that it comes from an eccentric American youth translation of
old African culture blended with exaggerated street fashion of the time.
There is a thourogh explanation in this article.
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=280977  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.251.231.35 (talk) 22:52, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Then, please, try to provide a reliable source backing up your claim, per our policy on verifiability.   Salvio ( Let's talk 'bout it!) 18:35, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Elmore Leonard mentions a version of this in one of his books . Sorry, I can't remember which.Greglocock (talk) 00:29, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

text: To my knowledge, none of the numerous times that the gay prison claim has been added included a reliable source. I have reverted unsourced additions repeatedly. To my knowledge, this is the first reliable source we've found connecting sagging to gay men (though excluding the frequent prison portion of that claim). - SummerPhD (talk) 03:43, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  There is disputes aboute the origins of sagging 

message: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=11280612 --Mjrmtg (talk) 20:32, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: That page is no longer available. WTF? (talk) 23:18, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible Citation Source 

message: Shouldn't the article explain how the pants are kept up? Are their hidden pins...or suspenders? Whenever my pants start to sag, if I don't pull 'em up, they fall to the floor. Is there a certain way to walk? I really did come to this article looking for an explanation. Is there one?Buster Seven Talk 04:42, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It's called a belt. They just tighten the belt extremely low. 71.212.215.24 (talk) 21:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I dont think so. I dont know about you but the way my body is built, if I wear my pants half way down my butt-crack, belt or no belt, my jeans are on the floor if I try to walk...let alone try to run. Buster Seven Talk 21:53, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The article will explain this when a reliable source explains it. A belt might help. However, the methods I see usually involve standing and walking with the legs spread apart and/or using hands to grab the pants (often at the groin, it seems) and/or the pants falling and being pulled up repeatedly. As fashionable as the style may be in some circles, it does seem to have rather practical drawbacks. - SummerPhD (talk) 00:32, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that the point of most fashion is to be non-practical.Active Banana  (bananaphone 21:41, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I would think the point of most fashion is the look. If non-practicality is the goal, I would think rain gear made of effervescent cold tablets would be all the rage. - SummerPhD (talk) 20:33, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

text: I've added some detail about this to the 'origin' section, along with a relatively recent source. This needs to be treated carefully -- I believe the source is still reliable, but it could also be treated as promoting a product. Nonetheless, I think the article helps to explain the issue. WTF? (talk) 18:37, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: a non-substantiated claim by Chgo police is that perpetrator identification has increased dramatically due to the fact that the victims can easily remember the design of the exposed underwear. "they were blue with little red hearts and a hint of MacDougal tartan plaid."Buster Seven Talk 08:29, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  It's pins. I asked a guy in a local convenience store. Must be more to it though since the pants pinned to underwear would pull the underwear down without suspenders oder. 72.228.177.92 (talk) 16:26, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks for asking, but I don't see us using the cite: A guy in a local convenience store asked by an annonymous editor anytime soon. - SummerPhD (talk) 20:33, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  LOL, SummerPHD, I don't see there being an "us". 72.228.177.92 (talk) 12:20, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  We'll always have Paris Talk:Sagging (fashion), 72.228.177.92. - SummerPhD (talk) 14:20, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  And to be clear, the guy I asked was sporting the fashion in question. The actual techniques used though are doubtless well documented on the web. 72.228.177.92 (talk) 17:35, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: How dey do dat?

message: I like to sag but where i'm from it's called busting low what is it's original name?
How do you put a picture  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wrech32 (talk • contribs) 08:02, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: A comparison of the terms "sagging pants" and "busting low" on Google Trends shows considerable usage of the term "sagging pants" and "busting low" doesn't even register. Though a regular google search for "busting low" does pull up a few Urban Dictionary references, though it's debatable whether that site meets WP:RS or not. WTF? (talk) 16:27, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Urban dictionary is user generated content with no editorial oversite, so no it is not acceptable source. Active Banana  (bananaphone 16:56, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sagging is good but who do you put a picture? 

message: I think there are a few sentences in this article which might be confuding to British readers, due to the fact that in Britain "pants" means "underpants", not "trousers". I don't know if there's a way of making it clear for both dialects of English.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.6.96.22 (talk) 14:45, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting. Although, since the overwhelming majority of the sources talk about the trend in America, I think we need to use American English.Active Banana  (bananaphone 16:59, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, the sources (at the moment) do tilt heavily to the U.S. However, if there are tweeks we can make to the wording that would make it easier to read on the other side of the pond without compromising clarity to U.S. readers, I'm all for it. Are there particular sentences that seem to be unclear to your eyes? - SummerPhD (talk) 17:10, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  "pants" 

message: This article needs a newer section that mentions that "sagging" has become popular among white (and Asian) youths in not just the USA but also the UK, Japan, etc. The article focuses too heavily on sagging as an "African American" cultural phenomenon. Whether it started out that way, there are plenty of Justin Bieber wannabees around that are not African American and practice "sagging".96.25.189.9 (talk) 19:45, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Now Popular Among White Youths

message: It looks like the reaction section is getting a bit large and primarily becoming a sounding board for listing every incident of sagging that makes headlines. It might be better to completely rewrite this section and focus more on the legal aspects and less of a timeline of events. This might also help with the US bias in the article as well. WTF? (talk) 22:56, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Reaction section

message: It started in Mexico by actor Mario Moreno "Cantinflas"  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.5.243.142 (talk) 18:22, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: We would need a reliable source specifically tying the recent sagging trend to him. - SummerPhD (talk) 19:33, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Origin

message: " is not generally described as sagging.[1]The reference cited leads to a photograph with a text about the origin possible coming from prisons -- there is NOTHING there about the application or non-application of the term to women.  76.126.195.34 (talk) 16:35, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inappropriate reference 

message: This is balanced towards showing sagging in a negative light. It doesn't become a blatant joke though until the Music video section when individuals of little or no actual notability are chosen and specifically those speaking out against the practice of sagging.-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 02:00, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: The Music Video section does seem like it was added less to document cultural references to the practice and more to criticize it. Off the top of my head, I'd argue Estelle's "American Boy" is at least a neutral reference, even if the pants in question are described as "baggy" and not to the artist's liking. I'm sure there are others (though suspect that songs celebrating low-slung pants are pretty rare, just because it seems like a corny thing to write music about). If it's not a broader "notable references in music" section, I don't see the purpose of keeping it - by that point in the article it is well-understood that not everyone is a fan of this style. LookOnMyEditsYeMighty(talk) 19:36, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  bias 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: A rough count of examples of governmental or organisational reaction against this 'style' gets me 18. That's people wanting to add _their_ favourite example, as recent as Sept 2020. Since 'stupid' never goes out of fashion, and the list will only increase, maybe active pruning is warranted? Shenme (talk) 03:56, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Everybody's got to do it 

message: This article does not cover a worldwide subject as it just focuses on sagging in the United States. Wikipedia:WikiProject Countering systemic biasCwater1 (talk) 16:34, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article does not have a worldwide subbject 

message: Good thing, there is an article for each case... Let me elaborate. There are several concepts involved. Some pictures in this article DO NOT BELONG HERE.
- Baggy pants: The pants are NOT SAGGING. Pockets are at standard heights. They are worn at the waist.
- Phat pants: Correctly defined in its corresponding article.
- Low-rise pants: Correctly defined in its corresponding article. These ARE NOT REGULAR trousers worn under the waist. There is little fabric from the hips up. So, there is no way to wear them "correctly".
- Sagging pants: There are two sub-classes.
:- Regular sagging trousers: This article features a picture of a rapper wearing regular trousers this way. Calvin Klein's campaign featuring Justin Biever is another example: https://www.menswearstyle.co.uk/content/blogs/c42a630d-ec99-408e-a543-a556a4ec6048_blog_ln_.jpg
:- BAGGY sagging trousers: Baggy trousers WORN UNDER THE WAIST.
The only question is if regular sagging trousers should be considered "real" sagging pants or if they should have their own article. George Rodney Maruri Game (talk) 01:37, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Classification 

message: Can we not have an image of 'a boy sagging with exposed underwear'? How hard can it be to find images of men sagging. Prodigial Son (talk) 23:22, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Images