Talk:Harold Pinter/Archive 2

message: Currently correct.  See the archived talk pages.  The format followed for punctuating quotations in this article is consistently MLA format.  Do not change correct punctuation of quotations to incorrect punctuation.  These are not so-called "scare quotes."  This is American-style punctuation throughout (unless the original quotation is UK-version from original source; original source punctuation is followed at all times; with "[sic]" used to indicate "as is."  Do not change; it will created inconsistencies and errors throughout the article if one changes it as a recent editing change did.  I restored correct punctuation throughout.  See archived talk pages: this article is written consistently in American English, and that is in keeping with Wikipedia guidelines for editing in English Wikipedia (which this is).  American English is acceptable in this article.  This matter is discussed in the archived talk page (archive 1). --NYScholar 00:41, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Punctuation of quotations throughout article

message: Is there User-torture here? Is any of this related to copy being from both sides of the Atlantic in Pinter's case? (Pinter himself seems to be that way.) I'm an editor person too and I feel there's a difference between being conscientious or diligent, and being pedantic. Somewhere in Wikistyle it says to keep to the style of the original article. So if this is British English, we keep our sense of humour and don't change it to "humor" – if it began with American English the same applies in reverse. The overarching style is Wiki and there's a guide for that, too.
As for [sic] – it applies to an odd or erroneous word appearing in a quote. Usually it is not used simply to indicate an alternative spelling as if it is an error. Skilled editor or not, it pays to be flexible as well as applicable and keep self up to date. Non? Julia Rossi 01:39, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This article is not written in British English; it never was.  It is written in American English, which is fully acceptable in Wikipedia.  See archived talk page, which, clearly, you still have not done. --NYScholar 02:08, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Punct-uation-ilious? 

message: My earlier comments (restored from archive 1). It is against Wikipedia policy to remove other editors' comments in talk pages without their permission. I intended the following to appear, since clearly other users need to be reminded of it and are not reading the archived talk page(s). --NYScholar 23:44, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: [Um, no.  Please see WP:ARCHIVE and WP:REFACTOR (not to mention, again, WP:OWN and WP:LAWYER.  If you're going to throw policy around at people, at least please be accurate about it.) PS: See your own pot/kettle talk page "notice": "Comments added to this page are moved if they are misdirected and/or archived. This is my personal talk page. I archive comments as I wish. That is my prerogative. You can find them in the archive." — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 08:36, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Consistency: Please note again that the prevailing language used in this article is American English: see the previous discussion in the talk page archive.  This is not a "personal" matter; it relates to the form and content of the article.  American English is permissible in Wikipedia in articles on subjects of wider than local interest.  A Nobel laureate is a subject of wider than local notability.  The academic society devoted to Pinter's work, the Harold Pinter Society, was founded by Americans and is based in the United States.  Its website is designed by a member of the Harold Pinter Society who lives and works in the United Kingdom.  The organization is international in scope, as is its subject, who is a native resident of the UK.  But American English is entirely appropriate and consistently used in this article.  There is no rational reason to change the spelling throughout the article.  UK forms are followed in titles and quotations as needed.  (Following WP:NPA, I've crossed out the personal aspersion and the quotation of my own words taken out of context from my talk page; they do not belong here.  I did not and do not want them posted here.  Different guidelines pertain to Wikipedia users' talk pages than to article talk pages: see W:Talk page guidelines and see also WP:NPA.  I repeat: the matter of spelling is a formal issue pertaining to the content of the article; it is not a "personal" issue and I don't appreciate anyone's trying to make it appear misleadingly as if it were one.) --NYScholar 17:53, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Harold_Pinter/archive1#Honors Honors]

message: [I wish to emphasize this information, and I have repeated it here for that reason'.--NYScholar 00:32, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Honors

message: See tagged talkpage header: "This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Harold Pinter article. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject."--NYScholar 08:42, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: This is not a discussion forum

message: Someone recently moved the "Works" section of this article to a separate article without any prior discussion on this talk page.  Doing that violates talkpage guidelines.  It turns out that the change may be a desirable way to shorten the article and that other editors might think it's a good idea, but making such a major change to an article is supposed to be discussed prior to making the change.  One needs to ask others for their views about such changes.  I think that the change may be okay; though it might be more convenient to have the Works listed in this (actual) main article on the subject (Harold Pinter); without such discussion, there is no way to know if other editors (not just the one who made the change) agree with it. See Wikipedia:Manual of Style for linked guidelines and policies and "help" with editing on the main page of Wikipedia. --NYScholar 08:50, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Prior to making substantive major changes

message: In response to someone's adding an unsourced sentence re: the "Pinter pause" in the section on literary allusions to Pinter in American culture (where I believe it was misplaced as well as undocumented), I did develop a subsection (after the one on the "two silences") called The "Pinter pause".  The statement added by the other editor was not really accurate or in the right place and it needed to be documented with reliable and verifiable citations (sourced).  I worked on developing it but, unfortunately, in the midst of doing that, before I could save the changes (while previewing and checking a source) lost my edits during a computer glitch encountered via a source's website.  I may try to develop this or related material again later.  There are many sources that document Pinter's "trademark" use of "pauses and silences" (the so-called "Pinter pause"), but the entry into "culture" is not just into American culture; it's worldwide culture, and it's not exactly "literary allusion to Pinter in American culture" (the heading); the "Pinter pause" is used in discourse (writing, conversation, criticism) in the domains of performance (theater) and life (mass culture).  If I have the time, I will add the sourced material later.  There were a number of other typographical, related format, and development changes that I lost while working on them, so those changes are not in the article either.  They were not many substantial changes aside from some quotations re: the "Pinter pause" and its theatrical and cultural contexts, and some additional development of the Nobel section and typographical corrections.  It was work that took a lot of time ,and it's a lot to have to reconstruct. I may work on it offline and come back later after I do other work that I have to do first.  Or I may not be able to take the time to do that.  I'll see.  Sorry that I lost the material that I developed. --NYScholar 19:32, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I made the revisions. --NYScholar 01:22, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The "Pinter pause"

message: Here is the developed passage, but it still lacks a verifiable citation to a reliable source that is permissible in Wikipedia:
Early in Cave Dwellers, a re-titled and re-edited English version distributed by Film Ventures International of the 1984 Italian-made film Ator l'invincibile 2, which aired as episode 301 of the American television series Mystery Science Theater 3000 (MST3K) first on 1 June 1991, the robot character Crow [Or, is it Tom Servo? See note to Muppet Central Forum] observes metatheatrically, "This film has more pauses than a Pinter play."Cf. Chris Cornell and Brian Henry, comps., "Subtleties, Obscurities, Odds and Ends", MST3K:FAQ, online posting, in Satellite News, mst3kinfo.com (fansite), accessed June 15, 2007.  [This quotation is not listed there.]  [See disclaimer on site: "Satellite News is the official web site for the Mystery Science Theater 3000 television series. It is endorsed by Best Brains, Inc. but is an independent publication written and compiled by Chris Cornell ... and Brian Henry ... Best Brains, Inc. does not maintain this web site, nor is it responsible for this site's content." (Deleted their e-mail addresses.)]Muppet Central Forum (fansite), online posting by a forum participant using the screen name "Princeton" at forum.muppetcentral.com (fansite), 24 Feb. 2007, accessed 15 June 2007.  [Such message board forums are not generally considered reliable sources in Wikipedia: see Wikipedia:Reliable sources in relation to WP:BLP#Sources; see tagged notice at top of this discussion page (w/ links to related policies).  Thanks.]
:Note: The last source (not permissible) is the only citation that I can find online to document this quotation and it is not one considered a reliable source in Wikipedia.  See Wikipedia:Reliable sources.  For that reason, until and unless a reliable source can be found and cited in proper format, I am moving this material to the talk page as per Wikipedia policy: delete on sight from biographies of living persons material that is not properly documented.
:Note also: There are perhaps thousands of such references as this quotation in contemporary American (and British) culture--newspapers, tv shows, other plays, films, and so on.  Some are more trivial than others and may not be considered "encyclopedic" enough to include.  Given the lack of documentation with a reliable source citation for this one added originally by another user, I am moving it to the talk page.  As the quotation purportedly comes from an episode that aired first on June 1, 1991, if included at all, it would be placed chronologically after the allusion in Stephen Sondheim's Broadway musical Company.  [Note also that the Muppet Central Forum participant attributes the quotation to the character Tom Servo not to Crow, as the anon. IP user originally did.  As there is no verifiable source, I don't know the accuracy or inaccuracy of either claim.] --NYScholar 18:15, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The undocumented addition referring to a quotation from "Cave Dwellers"

message: Thank you to the editor who revised the width of the infobox.  I did not really know what width is best.  I provided the silver part (which I found in another article's infobox), but I wasn't sure about how to handle changing the width (without it being too wide, which it was; one wants to be able to see the photo easily but not to have it as large as it was).  It seems that the width of the photo (jpg) governs the width of the whole column.  In general: what are common alternatives for such infobox widths? (so we can know in the future)? Is there a specific link in Wikipedia to go to for such tech. guidance? Thanks.  --NYScholar 01:41, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Width of infobox

message: Wikipedia is currently in the process of attempting to acquire a GFDL image from Harold Pinter's assistant or his agent to use in the infobox for the article.  See the editing history links to the user talk page w/ discussion. User Quadell posted a message in the Harold Pinter Community Discussion Forum (at haroldpinter.org) with his request.  --NYScholar 18:18, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Infobox image

message: I edited this article to follow English spelling (OED as far as possible), rather than the mixed English/American-English usage found previously.  Wikipedia convention seems to show that articles pertaining to a specific English speaking country or a citizen of a specific ENglish speaking country should follow the correct national variety of English (such as Bill Clinton obviously requiring American English). Harold Pinter is a British citizen.  I've left the punctuation as it was (as there appear to be unresolved arguments on that issue).  81.129.46.56 14:54, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That is not "Wikipedia convention"; see below and earlier discussion as linked throughout. --NYScholar 00:05, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  English 

message: [Past discussion archived ... --NYScholar 18:14, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Archive 2