Talk:Facts on the Ground

message: Reviews listed in this entry are disproportionately unfavorable to her scholarship. Sources include right-wing blog American Thinker (I think referencing blogs is disallowed on Wikipedia) and hawkish source Campus Watch. More reviews from scholarly sources need to be added.--Kitrus 20:02, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added "Unbalanced" tag 

message: Just to let you know, I was going to put it back.  I still had it on my clipboard.  I was checking to see if it was in one of the other sections.  Bigglovetalk 02:33, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Whitelan 

message: I strongly recommend that nobody rely on a second-hand source for quotations from Facts on the Ground, but instead go to Amazon.com and search inside the book. Some partisans cobbled together phrases that are separated by 30 pages to create a single "quotation" that they attribute to Abu El Haj. They also attribute to her language that appears in her summary of an article written by another person.
Some of these "quotations" are debunked in the footnotes I wrote at Nadia Abu El Haj. In any event, I cannot stress enough the importance of verifying quotations for yourself and not trusting quotations found in petitions, blogs, or other second-hand sources. — Malik Shabazz (Talk | contribs) 22:25, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quotations from ''Facts on the Ground'' 

message: Nadia Abu El Haj is the focus of a major debate over tenure at an important university, and has become an important figure for that reason. Since this book is a major part of the public debate,  reporting on it and its reviews is appropriate. I have also modified some of the negative comments, as noted below, to make things more balanced. DaveBurstein 23:28, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Dave. Those edits look generally fair to me and the tag's removal is welcome as a result. Thanks for your efforts. Tiamut 00:25, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've moved Dave's comments down here from the top of the page. I see that some editors continue to undo his edit, without replacing the NPOV tag that his edits addressed, thus justifying its removal. I also see that those editors are not engaging in discussion over the matter. This is the second time Dave has gone to the trouble of editing the article to address the NPOV tag and the second his edits have been reverted. Would those undoing his work care to explain? Tiamut 15:42, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: NPOV tag

message: The cite here is sparse.  Does anyone have more information?  I wanted to read the orig.  Bigglovetalk 16:23, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gelvin 

message: There is a "See Also" here for "Israeli-Palestinian history denial" and a category of "Historical revisionism (political)."
In the "history denial" article, the only "denials" discussed are "Claims that Jews never inhabited Biblical sites, Claims that Jews have no connection to the land of Israel, The existence of Jews as a people, Holocaust denial."
But nothing in the article indicates that "Facts on the Ground" engages in any of these, or that anyone has ever accused the book of engaging in these denials.
The category of "Historical revisionism (political)" is understood to refer to negationism and denialism. The "main article for this category" "deals solely with the distortion of history" not "the legitimate scholastic re-examination of existing knowledge." The category is full of articles like "David Irving," "Soviet Historiography," and (George Orwell's) "Memory Hole."
It seems to me that both of these absolutely do not belong, they are blatantly non-NPOV - whether or not you agree with this book's claims, whether or not you think the scholarship is strong. The critics say that "Facts" is ideological and polemical and bizarre and wrong. They don't say it is Holocaust denial. There are a lot of books about Israel or Palestinians that critics say are ideological and bizarre and wrong; the articles about those books don't have links to holocaust denial categories (unless they are actually accused of being holocaust denial books.) It's totally inappropriate.
I will remove these if nobody objects. EvanHarper (talk) 19:53, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Those are generic complaints made against Abu El-Haj that don't seem to be supported by the book she wrote. I don't have any problem with removing them. — Malik Shabazz  20:05, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, if the complaints are actually made by published critics of el-Haj, maybe the links belong. But I don't see that they are. To be blunt I suspect that some Wiki editor made the link on his/her own, and slipped those complaints into the "see also" and category section. EvanHarper (talk) 02:03, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  See also / category problem 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20060612234526/http://web.mit.edu:80/cis/www/mitejmes/issues/200210/zureik.htm to http://web.mit.edu/cis/www/mitejmes/issues/200210/zureik.htm#_ftn1
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080215014543/http://www.columbia.edu:80/cu/current/articles/fall2007/searching-for-facts-on-the-ground.html to http://www.columbia.edu/cu/current/articles/fall2007/searching-for-facts-on-the-ground.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080215014543/http://www.columbia.edu:80/cu/current/articles/fall2007/searching-for-facts-on-the-ground.html to http://www.columbia.edu/cu/current/articles/fall2007/searching-for-facts-on-the-ground.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified