Talk:List of ethnic sports team and mascot names

message: In theory, this list could be differentiated from List of sports team names and mascots derived from Indigenous peoples, I suppose... though why we would need such an article is another matter.  In practice, this list seems little (if anything) more than a duplicate of the other.  Shouldn't the two be merged? -- JeffBillman (talk) 19:06, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "None of them are problems" is a white man's opinion. When they are chosen by someone else, i.e. one group labeling another, they are a problem, or an issue, or whatever term works. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 23:21, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The Carlisle Indians was the mascot at a school made up exclusively of Native American Enrollment.  The chief of the Seminole Nation made a proclamation that he finds it to be ahonor that his tribe is the mascot of the Flordda State.  This article isn't intended to be an indictment of the white race like the other article.  It is intended to list the names of mascots of all races and not single anyone out like the other article which is devoted to native american mascots.  Let's please not start an edit war here. Sf46 (talk) 17:45, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

text: This article is essentially a POV fork. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 23:22, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Duplication?

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thread_title: Image copyright problem with Image:VancouverCanucks1980s.png

message: I have removed several teams from this list as they do not refer to ethnic groups per se.  Those eliminated include the following:
* Philadelphia Phillies:  The term "Philly" is short for Philadelphian, and is a civic identifier- not an ethnic one.
* Dallas Cowboys and Wyoming Cowboys:  "Cowboy" is an occupation, not an ethnic group.
* Houston Texans, Indiana Hoosiers, and Iowa Hawkeyes:  Refer to US states, not ethnic groups.  Additionally, the Hawkeye is symbolized by an animal mascot.
* New England Patriots:  Arguably not an ethnicity, as it is in the generic sense one who has strong feelings for one's country.
* Tampa Bay Buccaneers:  Seafaring raiders are not of a particular ethnicity.
* Ole Miss Rebels:  While I can sympathize with those for whom imagery from the Confederate States of America evoke racial tension, such imagery is not necessarily of an ethnic nature. -- JeffBillman (talk) 19:29, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with these deletions. Sf46 (talk) 02:42, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

text: However, when the intention of the article is to highlight bigotry, even such mascots as the Cowboy depicts a (negative) stereotype of an ethnicity/culture just as much as an Indian.  Also, to make the argument that Cowboy represents a profession and to use that argument to preclude it from this list - Indian however makes the list.  Indian is not an ethnicity (unless potentially used to refer to peoples from India or the Indies), but a term synonymous with Aboriginal or Native (or First Peoples.)  It is only an ethnic term (at best) when it is applied loosely in the same manner in which "White" is an ethnicity.  Neither Indian nor White are ethnicities, but terms used wrongly to broad-categorize potentially related ethno-cultural groups.  Often, groups that become part of these labels shouldn't be described by these labels (i.e. Jews included as whites, or Navajos, Fox, Seminoles, Inuit, and Oneidas being considered the same/related.)66.143.44.194 (talk) 19:44, 26 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removing non-ethnicities 

message: The most flip side to the Indians would be the Cowboys.  I didn't see them mentioned.  Should be under football: Dallas Cowboys, and I  would suspect a number of high school may have the same moniker.Davisuno (talk) 06:38, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you are right. But, on the other side, indian is an ethnicity, while cowboy is a profession. 82.141.73.19 (talk) 00:59, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Did I miss it? 

message: Not sure the Columbus Blue Jackets should be included.  Although "Blue Jacket" could in theory refer to the famed Shawnee chief Weyapiersenwah, all imagery employed by the hockey team evokes the Union Army in the US Civil War-- arguably not an ethnicity. -- JeffBillman (talk) 20:44, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Columbus Blue Jackets 

message: Tottenham Hotspur's unofficial nickname (the official one is Spurs) is the Yid Army - a name wholeheartedly embraced by its largely Jewish fanbase (which includes me), but technically an ethnic nickname.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.134.47.129 (talk) 20:04, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yid Army 

message: There is unnecessary overlap between this and the List of sports team names and mascots derived from indigenous peoples which could be resolved by making this a list of names derived from non-indigenous ethnicities. This would likely lead to a discussion not leading to a consensus, but I propose it on the basis of logic. The discussion on one side might be that indigenous means "born in a place" rather than "historically prior inhabitants of a place". Certainly the other list is based upon the historically prior definition, while this list is based upon ethnicity regardless of location, making indigenous a subset of ethnicity. If maintained, this list would include the other in its entirely unless there was a team named after a term for an ethnicity not born in the same place they are now occupying. I am afraid only "wetback" or some equally pejorative term comes to mind.
In the US and Canada the historically prior ethnicities are Native Americans or First Nations people. I do not know the equivalent for South America. Using these distinctions, this list would become a list of sports team names and mascots derived from non-indigenous peoples; in other words settlers, pioneers, immigrants, colonizers, or invaders depending upon your point of view. Strictly defined, only Africa has an indigenous population. How much time needs to pass to make an ethnicity also indigenous to where they now live? Certainly the other list is based upon a reasonable answer: about 10,000 years, or before the time of recorded history. This criteria makes indigenous/non-indigenous identifiable with out being pejorative or taking a particular geopolitical point of view. This list could then be renamed as proposed, and include the Minnesota Vikings and the Boston Celtics, but not the Cleveland Indians. If there were teams named the Olso Vikings or the Dublin Celtics, they would be indigenous. I don't know what to say about the Frölunda Indians; create a list of team name and mascots derived from indigenous peoples of a different continent?
With regard to the lead section, material on the Native American mascot controversy and the Washington Redskins name controversy could be removed now and replaced with links to the other articles. The lead section of a list should only address inclusion/exclusion criteria and the organization scheme to guide editors in the addition of new material.
FriendlyFred (talk) 06:56, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Since there is little activity here, and no response to the above, I would now like to revise this list to become the main article for a number of related lists, each containing the content of part of the overall topic of ethnic team names and mascots. The organization would be:
*Professional / Amateur (a change I have already made)
**Continent: Africa, Asia, Europe, North America, South America, Oceania (based upon the location of the team, not the ethnicity)
Further subdivision would be based upon the number of items in the lists, with North America located in seperate articles. The problem I am seeking to address is the size of the article List of sports team names and mascots derived from indigenous peoples which I have proposed to split, creating articles entitled:
* List of secondary school sports team names and mascots derived from the indigenous peoples of North America
* List of college sports team names and mascots derived from the indigenous peoples of North America
This also addresses the problem of this article containing a partial list of teams with Native American mascots.
There is also the problem of including seperate lists of defunct usage, which are also sometimes large. There is already an article on defunct college mascots, perhaps there could be others?
--WriterArtistDC (talk) 06:59, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Distinguishing two related lists and what the lead section should contain 

message: In order to accomplish the above, I have reorganized this list by ethnicity rather than sport. This means being able to place a single link each to the three "indigenous peoples" articles, the original and the two new.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 02:34, 19 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Revision complete; rather than confusion and duplication, and many lists that are too long there is -
*List of ethnic sports team and mascot names (this article)
**List of sports team names and mascots derived from indigenous peoples
***List of secondary school sports team names and mascots derived from the indigenous peoples of North America
***List of college sports team names and mascots derived from the indigenous peoples of North America
**List of sports team names and symbols derived from Greek and Roman antiquity
***List of sports teams named Spartans
***Sports teams named Trojans
For those lists that refer to ethnicity, which is defined as the name of peoples who share a culture, language or history; teams that refer to other group defined by other characteristics are excluded. There are further distinctions between the majority ethnic groups within a country and the minority indigenous groups; and the ancestral groups who no longer exist.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 14:54, 19 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Revisions