Talk:Teikō Shiotani

message: Please do not add an infobox. See this arbitration report, and, for a more recent discussion, the talk page for the article on Stanley Kubrick. -- Hoary (talk) 10:44, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: No infobox

message: TL;DR? We can now assume that it was the 24th. Fuller explanation below. -- Hoary (talk) 01:59, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Date of birth: 22nd or 24th?

message: As the article is being fleshed out, it seems appropriate to remove:
a reference (for nothing specific):
*Nihon shashinka jiten () / 328 Outstanding Japanese Photographers. Kyoto: Tankōsha, 2000. .
an external link:
*Ono, Philbert. "Shiotani Teiko", PhotoGuide Japan.
an exhibition:
*1979: Akasaki Nōgyō Kanri Sentā (), Akasaki.
Although listed in the chronology within Uminari no fūkei, this doesn't seem to be mentioned in any of the four later books on Shiotani, so I infer that it was a mistake.
"other appearances":
*Modanizumu no jidai () / The Age of Modernism. Tokyo: Tokyo Metropolitan Museum of Photography, 1995. Catalogue of an exhibition held 1995–96 at the Tokyo Metropolitan Museum of Photography.  Plate 116 is by Shiotani.
*Nihon kindai shashin no seiritsu to tenkai () / The Founding and Development of Modern Photography in Japan. Tokyo: Tokyo Museum of Photography, 1995. Plate 10 is by Shiotani.
*Nihon no shashin: Uchinaru katachi, sotonaru katachi 1: Torai kara 1945 made () / Japanese Photography: Form In/Out 1: From Its Introduction to 1945. Tokyo: Tokyo Metropolitan Museum of Photography, 1996.  Exhibition catalogue. A portrait appears on p. 83.
-- Hoary (talk) 10:44, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Removals

message: According to the web page "Teiko Shiotani: Pioneer of Artistic Photography in Japan" (Photo History Museum Fujifilm Square, Fujifilm, 2015), works by Shiotani are also at:
#Bibliothèque nationale de France
#Museum für Kunst und Gewerbe Hamburg
#Santa Fe Museum of Art
However:
#For BnF, polling the catalogue brings nothing.
#For MKGH, polling the catalogue brings nothing.
#I don't even know what's meant by "Santa Fe Museum of Art". (The New Mexico Museum of Art, perhaps?)
-- Hoary (talk) 10:44, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Polling the BnF catalogue brings the Album photobook; imaginably this has been confused with a print. According to the Houston Chronicle review, the 1988–1990 travelling US exhibition of Shiotani's, was planned at the Center of [sic] Contemporary Arts at Santa Fe; perhaps "Santa Fe Museum of Art" is a garbled version of CCA Santa Fe. -- Hoary (talk) 06:19, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Collections

message: The website (teiko.jp) of 塩谷定好写真記念館 doesn't seem to specify a non-Japanese name for it. However, its Facebook page is titled "Teiko Shiotani memorial photo gallery (塩谷定好写真記念館)"; and "Teiko Shiotani Memorial Photo Gallery" is also the name used on the English-language acknowledgments page within the catalogue Itoshiki mono e. -- Hoary (talk) 10:44, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Teiko Shiotani Memorial Photo Gallery (name of)

message: If a book has an ISBN, I provide it. There's then little benefit in also providing an OCLC or NCID. However, I provide both of the latter (where possible) when I can't find an ISBN: OCLC is useful in many countries (though almost useless in Japan); NCID is very useful in Japan (though useless anywhere else). -- Hoary (talk) 10:44, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: ISBN, OCLC, NCID

message: I'm using my own convention, which I'll explain via example. Two exhibitions:
*Shashin no bikan (; The beauty of photographs).[...]
*Itoshiki mono e: Shiotani Teikō 1899–1988 () = To Things Beloved: Shiotani Teikō 1899–1988. [...]
The first has a title in Japanese: . In Hepburn romanization, this is Shashin no bikan. Similarly, the second has a title in Japanese: ; or romanized, Itoshiki mono e: Shiotani Teikō 1899–1988. Here's where they differ: the first has only a Japanese title (as far as I'm aware); "The beauty of photographs" is merely my own translation. The second has two titles: the English version was provided by the producers.
I hope that this makes sense to readers and other editors. -- Hoary (talk) 10:44, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Titles in two languages

message: It can be very difficult to find material about Japanese people, institutions, etc, if one doesn't know how their names are written (or even what their names are) in Japanese. Wanting to be helpful but not to burden the text unnecessarily, I've adopted a system that I'll explain by example:
*"Hakuyō Fuchikami": Person is blue-linked; anyone wanting to know his name in kanji can find it by clicking on this link and looking in the article that's about him; I therefore haven't provided his name in kanji.
*"": Person is (currently) redlinked, but there's an article about him in Japanese (and perhaps also article(s) in other language(s)); anyone wanting to know his name in kanji can find it by going via WikiData to the Japanese-language article about him; I therefore haven't provided it here.
*"Hokutō Saigō ()": There's currently no article about him in the Wikipedia of any language; I therefore provide his name in kanji so that people who are interested can easily look him up.
-- Hoary (talk) 10:44, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I've removed Japanese script that would be obvious, or very easy to guess, for any reader knowing a little Japanese. (As for readers not knowing a little Japanese, it's hard to think how the Japanese script might help them.) -- Hoary (talk) 10:55, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Other names in two languages/scripts

message: I first encountered the duck egg curry quote in Noriko Tsutatani, "To things beloved – Shiotani Teikō 1899–1988" (in English, p. 272); "Itoshiki mono e: Shiotani Teikō: 1899–1988" (in Japanese, , p. 203); within Itoshiki mono e. I'm following her in using  to mark an ellipsis (doing so is standard for Japanese). However, I cut slightly less than she does. The ellipsis is long: the chunk skipped within the quotation starts on p.162 and jumps to p.163. It's in Japanese that probably seems odd: Shiotani is speaking to Ueda and the pair were both from Tottori and therefore both speaking in the area's dialect, as the article points out. (Ueda has asked about the photograph Gyoson. His question: ) -- Hoary (talk) 10:45, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Duck egg curry quotation

message: The chronologies in the recent books tell us that this travelling exhibition (1979–1982) showed 50 photographs by Shiotani. If he was typical of the eight "masters", then the eight would have shown a total of about 400 photographs – and that's not including the miscellanies (historical, and "Modern Trends") not by "masters". I strongly suspect that 50 is a mistake, and that the seven by Shiotani shown in the book were all that were shown. (Certainly there's a certain amount of mindless copying among the miscellaneous chronologies. For example, one exhibition venue is consistently listed as アンヘルム [Anherumu]; there's no such place; what's meant is アルンヘム [Arunhemu], i.e. Arnhem.) Anyway, I deliberately avoid giving the number of prints shown in the exhibition. -- Hoary (talk) 10:45, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: ''Fotografia Giapponese dal 1848 ad Oggi''

message: Currently:
:*Constructed in 1874, this two-storey building was registered as a Tangible Cultural Property of Japan in November 2017
:*. . . the Shiotani family house, built in 1906 and registered as a Tangible Cultural Property of Japan at the same time
An obvious, if minor, stylistic improvement would be "was designated a Tangible Cultural Property of Japan". But please don't do this. There are "Registered Tangible Cultural Properties of Japan" and there are "Designated Tangible Cultural Properties of Japan". This pair (as well as other, closely related buildings) are classed among the former, not among the latter. -- Hoary (talk) 10:45, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Tangible Cultural Properties: Registration versus designation

message: The chronology for Sadayoshi Shiotani (as he's called) on p.235 of the 1982 Photokina catalogue contains one surprise for 1979: A monument was erected in his honour at the Wado Hospital, Sumoto City, Awaji Island. I don't know what relation Shiotani may have had with Sumoto, I can't find any reference to any hospital there that currently uses this name, and don't know anything else about this. -- Hoary (talk) 10:45, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Sumoto monument

message: Those outside Japan who aren't lucky enough to have access to a library that stocks any of the six major books may wonder how they might get hold of one or more among them.
*Shiotani Teikō meisakushū: 1923–1973 () = Album 1923–1973: Teikoh Shiotani. . . Long out of print, and uncommon.
*Uminari no fūkei: Shiotani Teikō shashinshū () = Teikoh Shiotani Portfolio 1923–1973. . . Long out of print, but it's obvious that many were printed: cheap copies are easy to find in Japan.
*Geijutsu shashin no jidai: Shiotani-Teikō-ten katarogu () = The Age of Art Photography: Shiotani Teiko Exhibition Catalogue. . . New copies available here.
*Itoshiki mono e: Shiotani Teikō: 1899–1988 () = To things beloved: Shiotani Teikō 1899–1988. . . New copies available here.
*Yume no kageri: Shiotani Teikō no shashin 1899–1988 () = Teiko Shiotani. Edited by Noriko Tsutatani. Tokyo: Kyūryūdō, 2019. . New copies available as for any conventionally published book.
*Seitan 120-nen geijutsu-shashin no kamisama Shiotani Teikō to sono jidai () = The Legend in Art Photography: Teikoh Shiotani and His Contemporaries. . New copies available as for any conventionally published book.
-- Hoary (talk) 22:50, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Book availability

message: has deleted material about the names in Japanese of the Vest Pocket Kodak (and its Japanese clones), with the comment "this is way too much detail on something that is not closely related to the article topic, belongs in the Wikipedia article about the camera". I'd say that the besutan is closely related to Shiotani. That's a matter of opinion, but a simple fact is that en:WP currently lacks Vest Pocket Kodak, Vest-pocket camera, or similar. I'm not planning to revert the deletion; but any future editor working on an article about 127-format folding cameras (not only Kodaks!) and their use in Japan (in the hands of Shiotani, Shōji Ueda, a bunch of other "art" photographers, as well of course as "vernacular" photographers) may like to recycle this note. -- Hoary (talk) 02:30, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Vest Pocket Kodak, etc

message: I've translated Tenki yohō no aru fūkei (天気予報のある風景) as View with Weather Forecast. This despite the published use of different translations: (i) Landscape with Forecasted Weather and (ii) Landscape with Weather Report. Why? The former sounds to me like a mistranslation, or very unidiomatic, or a bit of both. As for the latter, "weather report" sounds to me like news of the weather as it has recently been, or as it now is (a concept whose standard Japanese expression is kishō jōhō, 気象情報), whereas tenki yohō (天気予報) means weather forecast. -- Hoary (talk) 07:00, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''View with Weather Forecast''