Talk:History of the Jews in Scotland

message: ::Liverpool is in England, not Scotland!
So, no history of antisemitism until the SPSC came about? Well, barring that imported by the Irish Catholics (there is much historical and current antisemitic anti-zionism in Ireland) the same thing happened in Liverpool and there is a great deal of linkage there. Illustrated during 'The Troubles' by the opposing sides in Ulster, instigated by the Republicans identifying as Palestinians hanging out PLO flags (even more linkage between the PIRA and Republicans and Arab-Fascism, such as the Ghaddafi regime re-arming the IRA and backing their 'anti-Imperialism' ha, ha) which was met by the Ulster Nationalists hanging up the Israeli flag.
In response to the above, antizionim is not antisemetism. Its antizionism, hence the name. Many Jews are targets of zionist groups for criticising israeli policy and/or zionism. Its a pity that it has to be mentionned on a talk page about an ethnic group. Seamusalba (talk) 22:12, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: People often claim Scottish folk to be English, especially if they are English themselves, or from overseas. I seem to recall that her Scottish and Jewish ancestors came from different places. --MacRusgail 18:50, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Other

message: According to the article, the 2001 census listed 6400 Jews.  It then immediately thereafter says that there are over 8,000.  It cannot be both.  Tomertalk 04:06, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would find that plausible. After all not all "Christians" go to church, and it's just the same with Jews. Hatch, match and despatch (+ bar-mitzvah) - and that's probably most of their visits to the synagogue. --MacRusgail (talk) 23:28, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  2001 population 

message: "Meanwhile in Scotland, members of the Jewish community admit many are nervous about being too upfront about their origins and faith. The community is in decline, with about 6,000 Jews north of the Border compared with a peak of 80,000 in the middle of the last century" and "The population peaked at about 80,000 in the mid-20th century and began to decline after the war, as many left for England, the United States or Israel. There are about 6,000 Jews in Scotland today. "
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I remember the BBC series Scotland on Film had various shots of Jewish life in Scotland and it claimed that Glasgow Jewish population was as high as 40,000, unreliable censuses and in between Wars was to blame can anyone verify this?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.200.167.9 (talk) 20:28, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: See the comments above - depends whether you include non-practising Jews, or Cultural Jews as well. Bear in mind how Christianity has declined in Scotland, and a similar process probably occurs in Judaism. Add emigration - a common Scottish problem.--MacRusgail (talk) 22:43, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

text: Dundee had a substantial population, now invisble, and Edinburgh's has declined. God knows where Greenock's is now. Glasgow's was massive. I know a number of people with Jewish ancestry, but not a recent connection to the faith.--MacRusgail (talk) 00:00, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Scotland once had a Jewish Population of 80,000?

message: Although the Shalom tartan deserves a mention in this article, the bulk of discussion about it belongs in the article about registered Scottish tartans.  Likewise, the United States Air Force tartan might be mentioned in the article about the United States Air Force, but the bulk of discussion about it should be in the article about registered Scottish tartans.69.181.57.166 (talk) 08:52, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Two points - I don't know what you reference is for calling the Shalom tartan, but on the STA website it's called the Jewish tartan. And individual tartan patterns are most covered on the institution associated with them, just as football shirt designs are covered on the team pages rather than some general list of football shirts that would run into the thousands. Anyway, the Jewish tartan article was a bit WP:ADVERTy in any case so in the absence of other objections, I've merged it in (and done a load of tweaks for MOS and referencing whilst I was about it). Le Deluge (talk) 18:21, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: The Shalom Tartan

message: The lead paragraph of this article strikes me as plain daft. If there is no evidence of Jews in Scotland during the Roman occupation (not a great place for urban trade I would have thought!), then why mention them in that context? The reference should be expunged for being irrelevant to the historical record. The article should stick to the earliest references to Jews in Scotland. This would, I think, be in or after the period of Cromwell's occupation, about the same time Quakers and Baptists arrive. The old Jewish burial ground at Sciennes in Edinburgh has 17th century headstones. The Bishop of Glasgow's remarks cannot be taken to imply that Jews were resident in Scotland. Before the Wars of Independence with England many Scottish nobles held lands both north and south of the border and were well-travelled, visiting their scattered estates. The Bishop's comment is more likely to refer to Jews whom we know were resident in the south of the island at the time. Kim Traynor (talk) 12:51, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: "then why mention them in that context" - Because the Jewish population in the Roman Empire was pretty numerous, and well dispersed. I believe there were quite a few of them in Gaul and the Rhineland, so we're not just talking southern Europe here.--MacRusgail (talk) 15:18, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't say the contention as it stood in the article made much sense to me. I've changed the intro. paragraph to reflect the fact that it's always possible that Jews could have come to Scotland in that period, but we have no way of knowing. I hope you agree. Kim Traynor (talk) 18:23, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I should correct an informational error I made above. The Jewish burial ground at Sciennes was established in 1816, which is quite late. At a rough guess, it suggests that the occupants arrived in Scotland towards the end of the 18th century. If I recall correctly, some of the names indicate the Low Countries as their place of origin. Kim Traynor (talk) 23:25, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jews in Roman Scotland? 

message: He does for me, but since adding him to the list of Scottish Jews, I discover that he was born in Leeds. Does that automatically exclude him from the list? He was raised in the Gorbals and seems culturally very Scottish in his autobiography. Does anyone have an opinion on whether he should go or remain? Kim Traynor (talk) 18:20, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I now notice that David Daiches was born in Sunderland and moved to Edinburgh as an infant. That suggests Glasser has an equal right to remain on the list. Kim Traynor (talk) 23:36, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Does Ralph Glasser count as a Scottish Jew? 

message: I was under the impression Muriel Spark was a practicing Catholic rather than a Jew?  Is her inclusion here as a famous Scottish Jew accurate?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.29.222.13 (talk) 19:42, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It could be argued that she wasn't Jewish, having been born to a non-Jewish Scottish mother. Yet she was half-Jewish by birth and only converted in her mid-30s, so in her formative years one might guess, though it may not be provable, that there would be Jewish influences in her life, for example, from her father's relatives and the size of the Edinburgh Jewish community which was more prominent then than now. It really needs someone with more knowledge of her life than me to state whether that was indeed the case. They say mothers are usually more influential than fathers in educating children, and Muriel had a mainstream Scottish education, no doubt with a Protestant bias. That might put her Jewishness in question, but I am sure her awareness of her father's heritage and her surname would have given her some self-perception of Jewish identity. Kim Traynor (talk) 19:13, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Muriel Spark? 

message: This list seems instead to be largely comprised of people born and raised outside of Scotland who have both Jewish and Scots elements to their ancestry. Though a list of people actually of Scottish-Jewish extraction has pertinence to this article, being of Scottish and of Jewish extraction is not the same thing and seems off-topic. Mutt Lunker (talk) 00:59, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I've been looking at both these pages. On the "List of Scottish Jews" page the section at the end entitled "People of Scottish-Jewish heritage / Jews of Scottish extraction" contains some individuals who have some (possibly distant) Scottish ancestry from one parent and some (again possibly distant) Jewish ancestry from the other; it doesn't feel quite right to include them on a list of "Scottish Jews". So I am really agreeing with the first contributor. I'd be inclined to remove some of these entries but NB I'm a fairly new editor and keen to do the right thing! DovJ60 (talk) 14:47, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  People of Scottish-Jewish extraction 

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