Talk:4 Vesta

message: Following  (Jan 9, 1998) the density of Vesta is only 3.9 ± 0.3 grams per cubic centimeter. Is this more recent/fiable than the current value of 3.3g/cm3?
:Thomson et al. (1997) gives a mean radius of 258 km and Michalak (2000) a Mass of 1.36 ± 0.05 × 10–10 Sun masses. Based on this, Keil (2003) gives a density of 3.8 g/cm^3 -- Epo 10:44, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: The old density estimates of even 5.0 or so were based on the IRAS diameter which was far too small. Based on the newer HST data of Thomas [Science 277, p 1492, (1997)], the dimensions are 578x560x458 km ± 10 km, so a geometric average of 529 km, giving a volume of about 7.8±0.4×1016 m3. The latest mass estimate of Pitjeva (ref in article) gives about 2.67×1020 kg, with maybe a 15% uncertainty by comparing to other people's results. This then gives a best estimate of density of 3.4 ± 0.5 (the uncertainty is kind of uncertain). Deuar 08:43, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Density

message: I reworked the whole article -- please somebody check the grammar since my Engrish is not perfect Jyril 21:27, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Rewrite

message: Needs some expansion on the discovery, and it's former status as a planet... The fact that it's visible to the naked eye seems like it only had bad luck not being picked as a classical planet. Tesseract501 March 23, 2006.
Needs some expansion on the discovery. Michaelbusch 18:08, 17 Aug 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: History

message: Next to "Mean surface temperature", on the Physical Characteristics table, the min and max temperatures are given, the temperature Extremes for "4 Vesta", but not the actual "Mean surface temperature" for the asteroid.  Obviously, the mean is easy to calculate, even for my little brain, from the min and max data but still there is an inconsistency in this table.  Actually, I find the min max temperature more interesting data than just the mean by itself.
We cannot specify a mean temperature by taking the average of min and max, because we don't know the distribution of temperature across the surface of the asteroid.  Even the min and max are uncertain, particularly the minimum (because we have little data on the nightside).  We can calculate an average temperature for the surface by taking the albedo and average cross-section, using those to compute the total solar energy incident, then dividing that by the effective surface area of the object to get the mean power radiated per unit area.  However, this is not the same as a geometric mean across the surface.  Michaelbusch 16:03, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Physical Characteristics

message: Could someone elaborate on how we know the meteorites originated on Vesta, and not some other asteroid?  Gary 04:51, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fragments 

message: Good article, keep up the good work -- Nbound 00:54, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: GA

message: According to http://www.iau2006.org/mirror/www.iau.org/iau0603/iau0603_Q_A2.html , Ceres is no longer an asteroid. 132.205.44.128 05:15, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was the one who originally posted that reference... please see my reply to your post here. Thanks! --Ckatzchatspy 05:59, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Sorry if my post wasn't clear... my link to "here" points to the discussion at Talk Ceres as well, since 132.205.44.128 posted a similar question there. --Ckatzchatspy 20:01, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Yes, well, I learned to read at a very early age, before all this new-fangled A-B-C stuff came about... 8) --Ckatzchatspy 21:32, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Largest asteroid 

message: A color image of Vesta is available:
:http://hubblesite.org/newscenter/archive/releases/2007/27/image/c/
— RJH (talk) 21:37, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As a Hubble image it's not PD.  Is there a fair use rationale that applies? Lexicon (talk) 22:34, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please see http://hubblesite.org/copyright/ for Copyright information regarding hubble pics.  Accroding to their copyright notice, this one is PD or FUR.  Abyssoft 11:44, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Color image 

message: You can not allows easily diagram 3 dimensional space on a 2 dimensional drawing.
*For example look at the JPL orbital simulation for 887 Alinda.  When you first load it, it looks like 887 Alinda crosses the orbit of Earth.  But if you drag the bar on the right to the bottom, you will see that this asteroid does not cross Earth's orbit.  Since it has a perihelion (closest distance to the Sun) of 1.07AU it does stay outside of the Earth's orbit.
*Another good example is Pluto.  If you load the JPL orbital simulation for Pluto, zoom in some, and rotate to the left you can make it appear as if Pluto always stays further from the Sun than Neptune.
*If you look at JPL's 2-body orbital simulation for Ceres and Vesta and move forward to 2009-02-10, you will see that Ceres is closer to the Sun at that time. Vesta 2.56AU; Ceres 2.54AU. -- Kheider (talk) 17:03, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Occasionally Ceres can come closer to the Sun than Vesta

message: A hidden comment showed the mass as having 4 sig figs, so I changed the info box to match. However, I don't have access to the article. 4 seems awfully precise. Can someone confirm the error? Even in the abstract it's clear that there's at least 3 sig figs, and we only had two. kwami (talk) 14:37, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The mass of Vesta as listed in Pitjeva, 2005 is 1.344 ± 0.001 mass of Sun. Ruslik (talk) 15:11, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Good, thanks. Just wanted to check. kwami (talk) 15:20, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  mass 

message: Can s.o. add the error estimates for the diameters? I don't have access to the ref. Even with the PD error bars for Pallas it's clear the two overlap, but it would be nice to be accurate rather than just precise. kwami (talk) 01:20, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You could also use either Baer2008 ==>  OR Baer2009 ==>  The Hubble reference is from 1997. -- Kheider (talk) 02:47, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  error ranges 

message: The synodic period of 4 Vesta is about 1.38 years.  So for an opposition on a particular date, the 3rd, 5th and 8th following oppositions will be at close to the same calendar date.  The less favorable oppositions that were tagged with a when template and "What year?" comment recur whenever the opposition happens in late autumn.  With my calculator I get oppositions near Nov. 18th  on 2012, 2016, 2019 and 2023.  A planetarium program could give exact dates.  I am not sure what is best to put into the article.  --Fartherred (talk) 04:46, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  the time of less favorable oppositions 

message: There is a good article at the Max Planck Society discussing some new findings about the interior of Vesta.  Link 
The original article is from Icarus through Elsevier and is located  here. --Xession (talk) 04:26, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Interior of Vesta 

message: Claiming 4 Vesta is the ONLY remnant protoplanet is a bad idea in IMHO.  The Kuiper belt likely has many such objects.  4 Vesta may be the only remnant protoplanet in the asteroid belt, but I also think Ceres and 2 Pallas can claim to be protoplanets. -- Kheider (talk) 18:20, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The physorg.com article cites Reddy et al. (2010). Perhaps somebody could check there to see what they really stated? I don't have access to Icarus.—RJH (talk) 18:52, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The Max Planck Society article used as reference (#11 MAX) does list Dr. Andreas Nathues (one of the authors) as a contact so I trust it more than physorg.  But like yourself, I do not have access to Icarus. -- Kheider (talk) 20:04, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

text: Under the heading "Discovery" is the statement "Ceres, Pallas, and Vesta are not fragments of a larger body", which is unsupported by data. Should this be labelled "speculation", or "conjecture", or some such?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.233.251.196 (talk) 07:19, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

text: Given that Vesta is partially differentiated and Ceres (being spherical) is in hydrostatic equilibrium, what larger body do you speculate they are from? Due to Jupiter being the 1st planet to form, Ceres+Vesta+Pallas were all prevented from further accretion by Jupiters gravitational scattering of other objects. -- Kheider (talk) 16:01, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: We have several sources stating that explicitly, though I don't recall which ones. — kwami (talk) 23:54, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Only remnant protoplanet

message: What will the vestan season be when DAWN arrives? The visit will be only 0.2 vestan years, so there won't be a lot of change if one hemisphere is in winter. — kwami (talk) 14:27, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Vesta doesn't have a significant atmosphere, so I'm not sure what type of change you are expecting. Please could you clarify?—RJH (talk) 16:42, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The season could affect which areas of Vesta are illuminated or not while Dawn is in orbit. --Patteroast (talk) 17:44, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: That's true. Thanks.—RJH (talk) 19:39, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that's what I was wondering: how much of Vesta will we actually see? Will the southern crater be visible? What about the expected compression fractures at its antipodes? — kwami (talk) 21:03, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't seem to find the paper discussing the Framing camera in short order, but it is capable of imaging in the near-IR (see here).  There is also a visible/infrared spectrometer that will provide colorful maps many will be familiar with from recent missions to the Moon.  The mission won't likely leave much, if any, of the surface on either Vesta or Ceres unmapped. --Xession (talk) 21:12, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah! Southern summer! Just heard back from NASA. No citable source, so I hope you don't mind me just adding it to the article. — kwami (talk) 20:11, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Season at DAWN?

message: During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
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thread_title:  Dead link 

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thread_title:  Dead link 2 

message: During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
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thread_title:  Dead link 3 

message: :"After orbiting Vesta for approximately one year, in July 2012 Dawn will proceed to its other target, Ceres. This is possible, as the spacecraft is the first that can enter orbit around more than one body as a result of its weight-efficient ion-driven engines.[45]"
Is this the main reason actually the engines, or is it at least as much that the very low gravity enables the craft to escape orbit so much more easily than from say a planet? 109.153.234.156 (talk) 23:23, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The engines. Dawn could escape from a planet too, it would just take longer (and more fuel). But AFAIK a traditional rocket would be incapable of doing what's planned for Dawn. That's what got this thing funded: no-one cared enough about asteroids to actually fund a mission, but they would fund an asteroid mission in order to demonstrate the abilities of the ion drive. — kwami (talk) 23:40, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh OK, thanks for confirming it. 109.153.234.156 (talk) 23:59, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, Dawn's accelerated more under those engines than any rocket ever has. And it's not done yet. I just hope there's enough fuel left to break Cererian orbit and make a flyby of Pallas. — kwami (talk) 01:21, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''Dawn'' quibble 

message: does anyone have access to the rotation clip they showed today? That would be an awesome header image, like we have for Pluto.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Kwamikagami (talk • contribs) 00:36, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: You can download it here, but I don't know how to convert it to OGG, the required video file type. LittleMountain5 00:59, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I can convert to ogg, but not with the codex they want, because firefog is not compatible w v. 5. I'll ask for help. — kwami (talk) 01:46, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I also figured out how to convert it to OGG (with the correct codex), but upon looking at Pluto's example again, I realized it's an animated GIF. Making something like that would require either finding each separate image NASA used in their video, or taking frames from the video itself. I'll try to work on it tomorrow. LittleMountain5 02:31, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The high-def version really makes a big difference, but I don't know how practical it would be. — kwami (talk) 04:32, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I tackled the harder one first: here's the animated GIF. Note that this is the first time I've ever made an animated GIF, so suggestions for improvement are welcome. Cheers, LittleMountain5 00:54, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Beautiful! It's large, but even with a slow connection it will display a perfectly good image while it continues to download. — kwami (talk) 01:04, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I tried to make it as big as possible to preserve at least some of the detail. Do you think it's a good speed? I animated a little faster than the video so it rotated more smoothly, but now I'm second guessing myself. LittleMountain5 01:08, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The speed is fine. It's going to be much slower anyway as it loads. I was hoping for full res, but see now that that would be unmanageably large, and the detail is pretty good as you have it. — kwami (talk) 01:40, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

text: I liked it too. S.o. thought it took too long to load, tho while it was loading you still had a still to look at. — kwami (talk) 21:28, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Is the current still of better quality than the loading rotation clip?  If not I would move that we re-introduce the rotation clip.  I'll defer to your judgement though (My internet connection may make my opinion a bit biased) - Danskheart (talk) 21:33, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  rotation clip 

message: The currently stated dimensions of Vesta are from 14 years ago. Wouldn't the dimensions be known far more accurately now that Dawn is orbit around Vesta? --JorisvS (talk) 22:53, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I added a note to the intro. We're basically waiting for the new data to be published.--agr (talk) 12:22, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dimensions 

message: The file Vesta from 265000 km cropped 260.jpg, has been flagged for tranfer to Commons by Svenbot. The same image, slightly differently cropped, already exists there (:File:Vesta image by Dawn probe.jpg). So I'd say it can simply be deleted. The uncropped version (:File:Vesta from 265000 km.jpg) does not exist on Commons and has also be flagged. I don't see how an uncropped version could have any added value, but if someone disagrees... . --JorisvS (talk) 17:01, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Duplicate image of Vesta tagged for transfer to Commons 

message: Reference to http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/dawn/multimedia/pia14715.html or similar is needed. 94.30.84.71 (talk) 12:30, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Claudia 

message: Vesta has an iron core. -- Kheider (talk) 16:09, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Iron core 

message: I think this page needs a link to a new page listing the recently announced names of surface features on Vesta. I haven't had a chance to check all of them myself, but the craters seem to be named after well-known Roman families.
http://planetarynames.wr.usgs.gov/SearchResults?target=VESTA  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.214.138.229 (talk) 05:34, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Almost, but not quite. Surface features are/are to be named after Roman Vestal Virgins.Catiline63 (talk) 13:03, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Surface features names 

message: In Early measurements, it's said: «William H. Pickering produced an estimated diameter of 513 ± 17 km in 1879, etc.», reporting as source Hughes, D. W (1994). How did you identified which Pickering brother made the measurments? As Hughes reports as source an article of Edward Charles Pickering (Pickering, E. C., 1879, Annals Astron. Obs. Harvard, 11, part 2, p. 291), the identification may be wrong. --Harlock81 (talk) 08:54, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I verified that Hughes cites E.C. Pickering and changed it in our article.--Cam (talk) 02:43, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Bibcode for the Pickering paper is 1879AnHar..11..191P. I am not bold enough to attempt to construct the reference for that.--Cam (talk) 02:56, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks! p. 294. --Harlock81 (talk) 17:18, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pickering 

message: I was wondering about Vesta's northern polar region in this animation. Is the flattening here real or just not included because that part has not been mapped (yet)? Hubble images do not show such flattening. --JorisvS (talk) 21:15, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The north polar region has not been mapped yet as it is in darkness, IIRC it won't be able to be mapped until nearer the end of Dawn's time at Vesta. ChiZeroOne (talk) 21:30, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I suspected that already. Thanks for confirming. --JorisvS (talk) 21:37, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Northern pole 

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thread_title: File:Vesta and some other asteroids.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

message: Vesta has been recently determined to be a dwarf planet, not an asteroid. --76.180.168.219 (talk) 20:28, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Citation please. Also, being a dwarf planet doesn't mean it isn't an asteroid: Ceres is still an asteroid. --JorisvS (talk) 23:34, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

text: Also be careful confusing a protoplanet with a dwarf planet. -- Kheider (talk) 23:45, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Outdated 

message: I am totally not competent to add to this article, but the newly-published data from Dawn presented at EGU (article here  and LOADS of info here ) seem to have a lot of additional facts that might improve the article. Kevin/Last1in (talk) 16:56, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Dawn Data 

message: Moving here:
:The eastern and western hemispheres show markedly different terrains. From preliminary spectral analyses of the Hubble Space Telescope images, the eastern hemisphere appears to be some kind of high-albedo, heavily cratered "highland" terrain with aged regolith, and craters probing into deeper plutonic layers of the crust. On the other hand, large regions of the western hemisphere are taken up by dark geologic units thought to be surface basalts, perhaps analogous to the lunar maria.
We should be able to update this from Dawn. Also, 'east' and 'west' have the opposite meanings for Hubble and the Dawn team (off by 155°), so the terms are ambiguous. — kwami (talk) 09:00, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Removed unfilled references above. Tarl.Neustaedter (talk) 23:25, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  East/West 

message: The 2010-2011 section in "Visibility" seems irrelevant to me. Should it be deleted? VirtualDave 23:17, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  2010-2011 

message: For its current rotation rate Vesta's equilibrium figure would have an oblateness of 0.128. Its actual oblateness is 0.21. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2013/pdf/2115.pdf  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.20.245.205 (talk) 17:55, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Something similar is true of many of the round moons of Saturn (list of satellite planemos). Vesta's situation is especially similar to that of Phoebe, which has also been battered out of an obviously round shape. --JorisvS (talk) 13:28, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting, I've read that about Iapetus but not Saturn's other moons. I did some searching and found this reference http://www.geoinf.fu-berlin.de/publications/denk/2007/ThomasEtAl_SaturnMoonsShapes_Icarus_2007.pdf which doesn't show a large difference in the observed and predicted oblateness for Saturn's other moon. Have you seen something else?
Agmartin (talk) 17:40, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hydrostatic Equilibrium 

message: 維斯塔 wéisītǎ, with an obscure ī, is the closest Chinese approximation of the Latin pronunciation westa.
"Obscure i" is not a correct linguistic term--can we give IPA here, or a proper description?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.60.7.34 (talk) 15:13, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: See Mandarin Chinese phonology#Syllabic consonants. Double sharp (talk) 17:32, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notes Section 

message: I removed the wikilink on Claudia crater in a photo caption, because it adds nothing useful. Nobody is going to write an article about a tiny crater which has the sole distinction of being used for the zero meridian on Vesta. That crater has no other distinguishing characteristics that would justify an article, so restoring the wikilink will leave this permanently redlinked. Is there any point to doing that?
WP:WTAF was written specifically for lists, but it applies in general articles as well, as a variation of WP:OVERLINK. No need to create links that just make the text harder to read. Tarl.Neustaedter (talk) 17:47, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I see, feel free to remove the link again. I reverted you because I thought that it was a crater of some significance, which have some precedent of becoming articles, e.g. the blulinked entries in List of craters on Mars). I see now that Claudia is quite small and has no significance beside defining the meridian of Vesta. For this reason, I agree with removing the link. I still think that WP:WTAF does not apply here, however. A2soup (talk) 17:57, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Thanks, Tarl.Neustaedter (talk) 20:57, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: And I stand corrected. There is an article on Claudia crater. It's been there since 2012, although under a name I didn't think to look for. It's only a stub, but since it's been around for three years, it's not likely to get deleted. Tarl.Neustaedter (talk) 00:53, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Redlink on Claudia crater 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: It would be interesting to know how close Vesta can get to Ceres since they can meet if you look on their orbits from "above". 212.186.0.174 (talk) 06:35, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Their orbits do not intersect. Ruslik_Zero 20:49, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Not only they don't intersect, the orbit of Ceres is entirely outside of Vesta's orbit. Ceres has a perihelion that is just barely inside of Vesta's aphelion, but not at the same place, so even when looking from celestial north (as opposed to "above"), the orbits don't meet. Either way, WP:NOTFORUM item 4 probably applies here. Tarl N. (discuss) 21:04, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not asking whether their orbits intersect but what the Ceres MOID of Vesta is. 212.186.0.174 (talk) 13:52, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

text: Or if it's too unclear due to its name, how close they can come to each other. 212.186.0.174 (talk) 13:54, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ceres [[Minimum orbit intersection distance|MOID]]