Talk:Burmese language/Archive 1

message: Does anyone have a link for a Burmese Unicode font? --Abdull 14:37, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: See my:Wikipedia:Font for some suggestions. --Angr/ 15:13, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Unicode font

message: Some Burmese words seem to come from different Chinese dialects. Could it be possible that the some of the following Burmese words originally come from Chinese dialects, or are these just coincidental?
* 紅包; red envelope - anhpao (Hokkien) > an pao (Burmese)
* 包子; buns - baozi (Mandarin) > paosee (Burmese)
* 哥哥 (or 阿哥); elder brother - gege or a ko (Hokkien) > ko ko or a ko (Burmese)
* 妹妹 (or 阿妹); elder sister - jiejie (Mandarin) or a ji (Hokkien) > ji ji or a ji (Burmese)
* 姐姐; younger sister - meimei (Mandarin) > ma ma or a ma (Burmese)
* 阿爸; dad - a ba (Mandarin), a pei (Hokkien) > a phei (Burmese)
:The first two, an pao and pauk si probably come directly from Chinese. As for "elder sister" and "younger sister", they are a ma () (a-kyi () is sometimes used, but typically among Burmese Chinese) and nyi ma () respectively.  Elder brother in Burmese is ko ko () or a-ko (), and probably have the same cognates in Chinese. Father (various forms that all contain either 'hpa', 'pa', 'ba', 'hpei') and mother (various forms that all contain either 'ma', 'mei', or 'mi') are of Sino-Tibetan origin. --Hintha 04:17, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A Burmese person's name does have meaning, although Burmese names do not follow typical Sinitic patterns (surname + given name), because Burmese people have no surname. For example, Aung San's name literally means "successful and innovative/extraordinary". Although some parents pass on portions of their names (or relatives' names) to their children, this practise is atypical. --Hintha 03:09, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

text: The Chinese dialects and Burmese (along with Tibetan and countless other languages in the Sino-Tibetan language family) are believed to have come from a common ancestral language.  Many basic cognates in Chinese are similar to those in Burmese (e.g. you ('ni' in Mandarin, 'nin' in Burmese), I ('ngo' in Cantonese, 'nga' in Burmese), five ('ng' in Cantonese, 'nga' in Burmese). Because Burmese also borrows from Indian languages, and local minority languages, many words are dissimilar to words in Chinese. Grammar-wise, Burmese is "subject-object-verb" (e.g. "I you hurt" instead of "I hurt you"), whereas Chinese dialects follow the subject-verb-object pattern. Also, Burmese has many four-syllable phrases (which consist of rhyming schemes), such as "ga-bya ga-ya" (quickly), or "ka-thaw ga-myaw" (hurriedly), like Chinese languages do. --Hintha 19:17, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I highly doubt that "paosee" and "baozi" go back to Proto-Sino-Tibetan. This is clearly a borrowing straight from Chinese. The numbers and pronouns, however, are more likely to be inherited from the proto-language. --SameerKhan 19:00, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chinese-derived words in Burmese 

message: Any Burmese speakers or Burmese language experts out there?  I've just listed the Burmese name for tofu as "pebya," but I'm not sure if this is the right romanization.  Please check the tofu article and see if it's correct.  Thanks!  Badagnani 22:43, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Term for tofu 

message: In the red-colored box at the right of the page, three characters (presumably Burmese ones) in parentheses in the heading show up as empty boxes.  I have downloaded 4 or 5 Burmese fonts yet I still get the empty boxes.  I have a PC with Windows XP.  Can someone provide me some assistance so that those characters show up?  I'm guessing if I am having this problem, others are having this problem as well.  Thank you,  Badagnani 08:36, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Let me guess, you're using Internet Explorer, right? It'll work fine if you switch to another browser, like Mozilla Firefox, Opera, or Netscape. --Angr/ 10:40, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Empty boxes 

message: http://www.languagehat.com/archives/000323.php
::He spent much of his time assigned 
to the Army's Morale Services Division, at 165 Broadway, which dealt in information and propaganda. There he received his hardest job of the war—a rush request to convert typewriters to twenty-one different languages of Asia and the South Pacific. Many of the languages he had never heard of before.... Morale Services found native speakers and scholars to help with the languages. Martin obtained the type and did the soldering and the keyboards. The implications of the work and its difficulty brought him to near collapse, but he completed it with only one mistake: on the Burmese typewriter he put a letter on upside down. Years later, after he had discovered his error, he told the language professor he had worked with that he would fix that letter on the professor's Burmese typewriter. The professor said not to bother; in the intervening years, as a result of typewriters copied from Martin's original, that upside-down letter had been accepted in Burma as proper typewriter style.''
:—Hobart 17:34, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Upside down character in Burmese script? 

message: Can someone please render "Be Prepared", the Scout Motto, into Burmese? Thanks! Chris 04:57, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Scouting in Burma]]

message: I'm sorry to be a bother but my roommate in the hospital here doesn't speak English and I know she speaks Burmese. I want to ask her if she speaks anything else (particularly Mandarin Chinese, seems most likely) because I can speak Mandarin and a few others well enough to communicate... can you help me phrase the question "Do you speak any other languages?" Thank you...
kaiti-sicle 05:51, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello, a simple way to ask if she speaks chinese, would be to say "Da-yo Zaga Pyo Det La"?  Da-yo is the Burmese word for Chinese. --Jim  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.109.117.237 (talk) 09:49, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Can you speak anything else]

message: Hi. I want to know is is hard for a East European guy to learn Burmese language? I want to learn some rudimentary phraseology, and looks verry hard :(( Arthasfleo 08:50, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Burmese 

message: In the following quote,  [r] is used to transcribe the second <r> in Amarapura. Is this correct? [r] doesn't occur in the table above listing phonemes.
:The approximant /ɹ/ is rare, and is only used in place names that have preserved Sanskrit or Pali pronunciations (e.g. Amarapura, which is pronounced [àməɹa̰pùra̰]) and in English-derived words.
—Felix the Cassowary 01:01, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sure they're both . —Angr If you've written a quality article... 06:50, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  IPA accurate? 

message: I forced all the Burmese characters to display correctly with the new  template I created. Now, they will display in all browsers, not just Firefox. Taric25 (talk) 19:05, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I switched back because  is too inflexible. It forces the font Padauk, which doesn't have the most recent additions to the Burmese character set in Unicode 5.1. by using , users can set what font they want to use in their CSS. —Angr 05:17, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Forced display 

message: The SOAS link gives a 404 error message.  I have tried to fix it twice and got rejected both times even when using the password.  Would somebody fix this?  Just go to SOAS, search on Burmese, and you'll get the right link.
4.249.198.49 (talk) 21:59, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: . Thanks for bringing that to our attention! —Angr 05:14, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  SOAS link 

message: I assume by [N] what is intended is the uvular nasal. The proper symbol for that is the “small capital N” [ɴ], so I have changed all occurrences both here and at MLC Transcription System. MJ (t • c) 16:09, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: No, by /N/ is intended the placeless nasal, which is realized as nasalization of the vowel followed by a sort of nasalized approximant (alveolar after monophthongs, velar after diphthongs). Burmese has no uvular nasal. +Angr 16:21, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for catching me so quickly, Angr. In the process of finding some capital N’s I had missed, I found the explanation of the placeless nasal, so I undid my own edits. MJ (t • c) 16:29, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Still, you won't be the only person to be thrown off by it. /N/ is an abstract phonological unit and probably shouldn't really be used in phonetic transcription using [brackets]. Perhaps we could use  and  instead, though those symbols are also pretty obscure. +Angr 16:50, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it’s all right as it is here with the explanation included. At least it’s not an incorrect symbol in brackets. But at MLC Transcription System the sentence “Nasalised finals, with most pronounced [N], are transcribed differently” seems to want explanation. MJ (t • c) 17:32, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Capital N in IPA 

message: It is not 	ကြ ခဲ့ သည်။ It should be  ခဲ့ ကြသည်။ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Soewinhan (talk • contribs) 14:24, 10 July 2010
:Agreed. It reads better now. Thanks. Hybernator (talk) 14:49, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: grammar error

message: Dear Angr, as a native Burmese speaker born and raised in Yangon, I can tell you that the most common pronunciation is . No one pronounces . Even TV and radio announcers pronounce it with a schwa. In fact, I can't think of a time when I or anybody else would enunciate the first syllable as it's spelled -- except perhaps in times of extreme emphasis. In Burmese, we have a saying --which as explained in the article means the written Burmese doesn't always correspond to the actual pronunciation. (It doesn't match most of the time.)
I didn't pay attention to the IPA translations anywhere until a few months ago when you put up the IPA for Burmese page with explanations. Thank you. Only recently, have I started paying attention to them. Please do check with your other Burmese sources. Other Burmese speaking editors, please contribute. Thanks. Hybernator (talk) 15:31, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The only source I have that gives a phonetic transcription is Annemarie Esche's Burmese-German Dictionary, which transcribes it  without reduction. I thought that the reduced equivalent of  was , and I've definitely read that when a syllable is reduced, it can only have one consonant in the onset, not two, e.g. နွားပေါက်, which Esche says can be pronounced  or  but not *. +Angr 15:41, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: She is correct about  and  but not  and . ( is a typical Upper Burmese reduction; in the south we tend to adhere to the spelling a bit more.) A reduced equivalent of  is , by way of . In everyday speech, most still (reflexively) pronounce the written "Myanmar" as , despite the spelling. When we're more careful to pronounce "Myanmar" in a more formal way, it's , never . Enunciating it the way it's spelled would sound truly awkward, unnatural, and forced. Hybernator (talk) 16:05, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd have to agree with Hybernator. From my experience, frequently used words in Burmese are more likely to have reduced vowels. I can't think of anyone who would pronounce မြန်မာ with a nasalized final, as in  . When I pronounce it, it's not a complete schwa (like the French je), but midway between an a vowel and a schwa, but the schwa is definitely the best approximate. --Hintha (talk) 22:10, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, it's going back in! +Angr 07:33, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you both! Hybernator (talk) 00:18, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: IPA for Myanmar

message: I spent significant time trying to get Burmese script to display, and finally seem to have it working as per my comment on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Multilingual_support_%28Indic%29#Windows_XP - Hopefully this might save at least one other person the hours I spent trying to get it working. A quick check shows that it seems to now also display in IE8 and Opera 10, which it didn't before. I'm using XP Pro SP3. UnRheal (talk) 13:32, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Displaying Burmese script in Firefox v3.6.13 on Windows XP 

message: Our description does not permit word-initial vowels in Burmese, but some words written with an initial vowel were transcribed with a glottal stop, and some were not.  Just wanted to check that they should all have the stop.  — kwami (talk) 02:42, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, all apparently vowel-initial words in Burmese are actually glottal stop-initial, even if not transcribed that way. Aɴɢʀ (talk) 13:59, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Initial vowels? 

message: At the vocabulary section, it says 'ရုပ်မြင်သံကြား' is direct translation of 'Television'. I don't think it is correct because 'ရုပ်မြင်သံကြား' is 'Vision'+'Audio' but 'Television' sounds 'Distance communication'+'Vision'. I would like to change another accurate sample word. Any objection? 111.84.193.245 (talk) 10:30, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Vocabulary

message: Most of these works are by Adoniram Judson.
English Burmese dictionaries (to help Burmese speaking people learn English)
*http://books.google.com/books?id=mAlLt1aGsWYC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
*http://books.google.com/books?id=m9xGAAAAcAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
*http://books.google.com/books?id=EHYIAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
*http://books.google.com/books?id=vUEZBrLtAowC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
*http://books.google.com/books?id=daACAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
*http://books.google.com/books?id=srJJAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
*https://archive.org/details/aeq0978.0001.001.umich.edu
Burmese english Dictionaries (to help English speaking people learn Burmese)
*http://books.google.com/books?id=LSEYAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
*http://books.google.com/books?id=UbMTAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
*http://books.google.com/books?id=m4ssAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
*http://books.google.com/books?id=sLwIAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
*http://books.google.com/books?id=UbMTAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
*http://books.google.com/books?id=q7cIAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
*http://books.google.com/books?id=8PdNAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
*http://archive.org/details/judsonburmeseeng00judsrich
*http://quod.lib.umich.edu/g/genpub/ANH2956.0001.001?rgn=main;view=fulltext
*https://archive.org/details/anh2956.0001.001.umich.edu
*https://archive.org/details/1528288.0001.001.umich.edu
*https://archive.org/details/anh2956.0002.001.umich.edu
*https://archive.org/details/acw6962.0001.001.umich.edu
*https://archive.org/details/judsonburmeseeng00judsrich
*https://archive.org/details/ahq1010.0001.001.umich.edu
Grammars of Burmese
*http://books.google.com/books?id=tNxGAAAAcAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
*http://books.google.com/books?id=Ua430tUjPgoC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
*http://books.google.com/books?id=kHgtAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
*http://books.google.com/books?id=f6YTAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
*https://archive.org/details/ahq1006.0001.001.umich.edu
A burmese reader
*http://books.google.com/books?id=7ZgPAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
*https://archive.org/details/aburmesereaderb00johngoog
Vocabulary and phrase book in English and Burmese
*https://archive.org/details/cu31924023351418
*https://archive.org/details/vocabularyphrase00bennrich
Elementary hand-book of the Burmese language (1898)
*https://archive.org/details/cu31924022058931
Burmese self-taught (in Burmese and Roman characters) with phonetic pronunciation. (Thimm's system.) (1911)
*https://archive.org/details/burmeseselftaugh00stjorich
The Anglo-Burmese student's assistant. Consisting of grammatical notes with numerous examples and analysis of sentences (1877)
*https://archive.org/details/angloburmesestud00wrigrich
Bible
*https://archive.org/details/11-12-BooksOfPhilippiansAndColossiansnewTestamentTranslatedIntoThe
*https://archive.org/details/06-BookOfRomansnewTestamentTranslatedIntoTheBurmeseburma-
A catalogue of the Burmese books in the British Museum (1913)
*https://archive.org/details/catalogueofburme00brituoft
=== History of Western Studies of the Burmese language ===
*http://books.google.com/books?id=Kwqc7xso22wC&pg=PA2551#v=onepage&q&f=false
*http://books.google.com/books?id=ZLa787pY5gMC&pg=PA173#v=onepage&q&f=false
*http://books.google.com/books?id=bW3sXBjnokkC&pg=PA313#v=onepage&q&f=false
*http://books.google.com/books?id=_UODbGlD4WUC&pg=PA238#v=onepage&q&f=false
*http://www.hbu.edu/HBU/media/HBU/publications/Dunham_Bible_Museum/DBM_Adoniram-Judson.pdf
*http://www.wholesomewords.org/biography/biorpjudson.html
*http://www.christianpost.com/news/adoniram-judson-endurance-personified-in-the-life-of-burmas-first-protestant-missionary-from-north-america-74940/
*http://www.adoniramjudson.com/
*http://www.believersweb.org/view.cfm?ID=43
*http://bible.org/article/my-heart-his-hands—ann-judson-burma-life-selections-her-memoir-and-letters
*http://www.theologicalstudies.org.uk/article_judson.html
Rajmaan (talk) 05:26, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: There are also a couple at Wikisource, see s:Portal:Languages and literatures of Eastern Asia#Burmese. Aɴɢʀ (talk) 13:00, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adoniram Judson's Burmese English Learning materials 

message: *http://books.google.com/books?id=Kwqc7xso22wC&pg=PA2551#v=onepage&q&f=false
*http://books.google.com/books?id=ZLa787pY5gMC&pg=PA173#v=onepage&q&f=false
*http://books.google.com/books?id=bW3sXBjnokkC&pg=PA313#v=onepage&q&f=false
*http://books.google.com/books?id=_UODbGlD4WUC&pg=PA238#v=onepage&q&f=false
*http://www.hbu.edu/HBU/media/HBU/publications/Dunham_Bible_Museum/DBM_Adoniram-Judson.pdf
*http://www.wholesomewords.org/biography/biorpjudson.html
*http://www.christianpost.com/news/adoniram-judson-endurance-personified-in-the-life-of-burmas-first-protestant-missionary-from-north-america-74940/
*http://www.adoniramjudson.com/
*http://www.believersweb.org/view.cfm?ID=43
*http://bible.org/article/my-heart-his-hands—ann-judson-burma-life-selections-her-memoir-and-letters
*http://www.theologicalstudies.org.uk/article_judson.html
Rajmaan (talk) 05:26, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: There are also a couple at Wikisource, see s:Portal:Languages and literatures of Eastern Asia#Burmese. Aɴɢʀ (talk) 13:00, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  History of Western Studies of the Burmese language 

message: How can I change □□□□ this letter? Although I downloaded padauk font and other letters are seen properly. But many letters still have square figures only. Is there any option users like me can do? ㅠㅠ --Mar del Este (talk) 09:34, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Those are supposed to be white squares. You've written the Unicode point U+25A1 WHITE SQUARE every time. Angr (talk) 07:34, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: (See the most recent section on his talk page for our discussion of this in April.) MJ (t • c) 01:18, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  □□□□□□□ 

message: Mon was incorrectly stated to be an Austronesian language. Changed it to Austroasiatic. Goderich (talk) 07:15, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Good catch! Angr (talk) 07:31, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mon 

message: In § Registers, ¶3 begins
:In the mid-1960s, some Burmese writers, who asserted that the vernacular, spoken form ought to be used, spearheaded efforts to abandon the literary form, which was historically the preferred form of written Burmese, as "the spoken style lacks gravity, authority, dignity."
It's easy to misread this long ramble as saying that the quoted sentence was the writers' assertion, rather than the position they were arguing against. I'm splitting it into two sentences in chronological order:
:Historically the literary register was preferred for written Burmese on the grounds that "the spoken style lacks gravity, authority, dignity". In the mid-1960s some Burmese writers spearheaded efforts to abandon the literary form, asserting that the spoken vernacular ought to be used for writing as well.
To discuss this, please  me. --Thnidu (talk) 02:45, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clearing up about register 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: In the second paragraph of the section "Computer fonts and standard keyboard layout", there is this acronym WISIWYG. Should it be WYSIWYG?  無聲 (talk) 12:50, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: It certainly should. Change made. MJ (t • c) 20:53, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  WISIWYG or WYSIWYG? 

message: I want to ask if this entry has any policy on using Unicode characters. It appears that this edit used non-Unicode characters:
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Burmese_language&diff=896604230&oldid=894802900
 If it is recommended to consistently use Unicode, the author might want to change it. If the original code is Zawgyi-One, I found this converter (developed by Myanmar Computer Federation) very useful: http://www.mcf.org.mm/myanmar-unicode-converter
Punnani Katabbani (talk) 16:09, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Unicode characters

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion