Talk:Monarchy of Sweden

message: King of Sweden → Swedish monarchy - "King of Sweden" is a bad title because the rules of succession to the Swedish throne allow for female succession to the throne. The current heir apparent, Crown Princess Victoria, will therefor be titulated Queen of Sweden. See for example British monarchy. /Jebur 01:01, 6 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Jebur forgot to establish the discussion. 132.205.45.148 17:41, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Requested moves

message: When Crown Princess Victoria has children, will they be of the "House of Westling" so named after her husband, or will they adopt the surname of her maternal father and be of the Royal House of Bernadotte?
:Previously discussed at Talk:Victoria, Crown Princess of Sweden#Last name as married - dynasty change?. —JAO • T • C 12:52, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: House of Westling?

message: The :sv:Konselj meetings of cabinet and monarch should be described in this article. /Urbourbo (talk) 08:54, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Konselj 

message: Thanx for good work on the article! With this edit though, the top got screwed up: a big blank space to the right of the infobox and under the hatnote. I don't know how you did that, or how to fix it. SergeWoodzing (talk) 17:05, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you! However I do think it is rather sad that the article in question is so short and lacking sources - for it really is topic in which there's clearly a lot to write about - while, for instance, there are corresponding articles such as Monarchy of Canada where the authors quite egregiously strive to make a hen out of a feather (not to mention the blatant monarchist-POV). I suppose that best road forward-looking course of action is to translate and incorporate elements from the Swedish WP article, which I think is fairly balanced in the sense that it expresses neither monarchist nor republican POVs. RicJac (talk) 17:40, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Monarchy of Sweden

message: Monarchy of Norway#Titles and styles needs to be expanded by an expert to the standard of Monarchy of Sweden#Titles and Monarchy of Denmark#Style. Help needed.--Queen Elizabeth II's Little Spy (talk) 17:48, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Titles of Norway 

message: My position is that the article now recently has had rather extensive irrelevant material added to it, which is not about the article's subject Monarchy of Sweden but detailed information about the reign accomplishments of certain monarchs, but not of those of many others. My opponent clearly disagrees, alleging that all the info h/s has added is relevant, and intends to keep adding more such (what I consider) irrelevant material which does not belong here, but belongs in the articles about those monarchs (where most or all of it is already covered). It is hard for me to understand how anyone could read this article and find that all that biographic material about monarchs, which does not touch in any way upon the monarchy itself, and has nothing to do with the subject Monarchy of Sweden, could be relevant, and that more such irrelevant info should be added to make the article swell out even more drastically beyond subject range. 
Since I am the only person who at length has corrected ("Notes to self") my opponent's rather extensive Swenglish in this article, which one often needs to know Swedish to be able to fully understand and correct well, my attitude toward that is that I always will be glad to help out when relevant info is added to any article, but it feels very tedious to be burdened with making extensive corrections when added material, as I see it, is not relevant. My opponent has also shown anything but appreciation for my courteous efforts in that regard, so anyone could easily be tempted to quote Streisand and ask oneself "Why bother?". --SergeWoodzing (talk) 23:29, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Position of SergeWoodzing

message: I see very little merit to this second round of a third opinion, but here we go again… It is difficult to argue with an opponent who deals with sweeping general notions and never in specifics. It would be prudent for an opponent to make his share of due diligence before levying broad criticism. As I mentioned in the thread above, my intention has been to write a history section much in the vein of what can be found over at Monarchy of the United Kingdom and Monarchy of Norway. As to the other aspects of symbols, residences etc., my main source of inspiration in the possible scope of expanding the all too brief “Monarchy of Sweden” has been the articles written about the various commonwealth realm monarchies, such as Monarchy of Canada and Monarchy of New Zealand. The history sections of the latter articles cannot of course be used as a fair comparison when writing a history section for this article, naturally given that their temporal scope is much shorter.
One possible method of benchmarking other “Monarchy of N.N.” articles (and other monarchical heads of state articles) is by measuring the article sizes. This is a list of the approximate sizes from last week (assuming they have not changed too much):
Article                       	Size
Monarchy of Canada            	159 kb
Pope                          	126 kb
Monarchy of Spain             	114 kb
Monarchy of the Netherlands   	102 kb
Monarchy of the United Kingdom	85 kb
Monarchy of New Zealand       	70 kb
Monarchy of Australia         	64 kb
Monarchy of Sweden            	55 kb
Monarchy of Norway            	48 kb
Emperor of Japan              	40 kb
Monarchy of Belgium           	39 kb
Monarchy of Denmark           	29 kb
Monarchy of Jamaica           	28 kb
Grand Duke of Luxembourg      	8 kb
Monarchy of Liechtenstein     	7 kb
The scope of these articles varies considerably and it is quite difficult to adjudicate on the spot what is the proper content in such articles and what is not. The size of this article in question cannot be characterized as excessive by any standard.
I would rather contribute to the articles than to engage in these largely pointless meta-debates, and it is telling that my opponent has contributed very little himself to this article. And yet he seems to care a great deal about it. I highly suspect that the real intent of this new third opinion is spitefulness and vindictiveness at its heart, in light of the last third opinion where his case did not prevail. Because for all the pride and posturing there is a conspicuous lack of concision, despite the occasional verbose blast. It is surprising, perhaps paradoxical, that one who poses as an infallible paragon of virtue in mastering the English language stands on such thin ground. As to why, I will not further speculate.
Even though I have many times encountered similar situations on enwp, since I began in 2005, whenever editing articles where the reasonable presumption is that native speakers of either; French, German or Swedish; have primarily edited those articles, I would never imagine berating and belittling other users however “truthful” it may be. It is simply not done. The perennial complaints of Swenglish have become the eternal pet peeve of SergeWoodzing (an observable fact by looking at his contribution comments and at his talk page) and a prime vehicle of baiting other native Swedish language users to cross the line of engaging in personal attacks: often a self-fulfilling prophecy, indeed. I shall not induce myself to his lowbrow manners and uncivil behavior, however tempting it may be. Nevertheless, I would like to finish my remarks by mentioning a trope from my laughing place, tvtropes, namely Can't argue with Elves which at its core might be the most germane description of the debating style of my opponent.RicJac (talk) 00:51, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Position of RicJac

message: :1. Terminology: 
::a) The official Swedish name of the Royal House, is "Kungliga Huset" with the written stylistic short-form "Kungl. Huset". This can be confirmed by the authoritative source on the Swedish language, "Svenska Akademiens ordbok", published by the Swedish Academy. However, there is no public document with an authoritative definition of what the name of the royal house is. The closest correspondent to a public document would be the usage found in the royal family section within Sveriges Statskalender (English "Swedish State Yearbook", with about the same scope as the U.S. Government Manual). Meanwhile, in the Swedish Code of Statutes () terms such as "Kungliga Huset", "Kungl. Huset", "Konungahuset" and "Kungahuset" are apparently used interchangeably in laws and ordinances without any degree of precision. Even before the constitutional reform of the 1970’s, which removed the monarch as the nominal head of the executive, there was no consistent usage even before then, and there needs to be none at all, given that linguistically there is no substantive difference between them at all. In short, this is a matter of style rather than substance.
::b) The State (staten) is always used in official translations by accredited translators simply because it is the only term which is an accurate description of what it is, i.e. a legal person. In the Swedish context, I refer to the first chapter of the English translation of the current Instrument of Government (i.e. the main Swedish constitutional document for purposes of this discussion) where the delineation is quite clear. This is overall consistent with how the term State is used in official documents and in academic sources from outside of Sweden. While I recognize that there are differences and some inconsistency as to how the two terms are used in the common tongue within certain polities, such as within the United States of America, the international use in the general sense is not unclear at all. The interrelationship between the terms state and government in the general international sense is found in Article 1 of the Montevideo Convention, which has subsequently become part of Customary international law and is the key definition that is used when dealing with the recognition of an entity as a sovereign state by another sovereign state. The traditional key metaphor between the terms is the description Ship of State (derived from Plato’s The Republic), where the State is the physical ship, while the Government are the officers commanding the ship. Another example of this is that the members of the European Union are member states (permanent entity), not member governments (temporary officeholders).
::c) In the Swedish context, the term Government means simply the cabinet and nothing more. The reason why I insist on this separation of State and Government is because of the Swedish constitutional reforms in the 1970’s which removed the monarch from the executive, legislative and judicial branches of the State while remaining the symbolic representative of the State with only tenuous symbolic connections with the Riksdag and Government. Conversely, the separation of the Swedish monarch from the responsibilities of state has meant that the monarch has a much freer role and cannot simply be censured and silenced by the Government of the day; unlike in Belgium, Denmark, the Netherlands, Norway, Spain and the UK, where requirement of ministerial countersignatures exist, offering binding constitutional advice etc., and other neat devices exist for curtailing monarchical freedom of action. None of this exists in Sweden, apart from a clause in preparatory works (the 1973 government bill of the current Instrument of Government), which states that there should be no daylight between the monarch and the ministry in matters of policy. However, no formal sanctions can be imposed on the monarch, short of constitutional changes, the Riksdag declaring the monarch to have been derelict in his/her duties for the latest six month and thus having effectively abdicated the throne, or a Riksdag majority slashing the annual State contribution to the royal finances. What I have posted above is not my own original research, but has been written by Swedish jurists such as Fredrik Sterzel and the late Gustaf Petrén. 
:2. Pro- and anti-monarchy clubs: At present there is no section concerning this in the article. It is likely that some additions will be made in this respect at some point in the future.
:3.
::a) Swenglish: I have no objections whatsoever to corrections of grammar, syntax, misspellings and the like. If I would not accept corrections along these lines, Wikipedia would simply not be the appropriate venue. However, for SergeWoodzing persistent accusations of Swenglish have become the operative catchall criticism and vehicle of harassment of other users within his limited areas of interest (mainly articles relating to Swedish royals) whenever and wherever he runs out of arguments otherwise. I consider this to be mean-spirited, uncollaborative and a primary example of baiting.
::b) Wikipedia is about verified facts, not homemade definitions or personal preferences. I am always willing to discuss my edits and equally willing to disclose my sources. I will never accept the edits of any other user who refuses to do the same, unless there is a clear consensus from the Community to do so.
::c) I resent any user who de facto claims ownership of any Wikipedia article, save for user-pages.
:4. Personal attacks: Users should acquaint themselves with the meaning of "personal attack" on Wikipedia and avoid writing things that could reasonably be interpreted as such.
:5. Getting personal: Users should try to stick to the subject of a discussion without getting personal.
:6. See 3c. RicJac (talk) 14:04, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: 7 Addition: I am not trying to impose any technical language to this article. I merely strive to clarify where clarification needs to be made. Wikipedia should use clear language and not use befuddled or otherwise unclear definitions where such are redundant. Ignorance is no excuse for facts. None of my propositions is in any way, shape or form inconsistent with what is found in the Oxford English Dictionary or in other applicable reference works on the English language. RicJac (talk) 16:30, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Viewpoint by [[User:RicJac|RicJac]]:

message: Since I haven't seen any sources in English that use either variation, I am somewhat at a loss for how to choose which is more appropriate. Turning to the MOS for abbreviations may provide some guidance. Here it says "when an abbreviation is to be used in an article, give the expression in full at first, followed immediately by the abbreviation in parentheses (round brackets). In the rest of the article the abbreviation can then be used by itself." I admit this is not a wholly satisfying standard to base a decision on in this instance, because the dispute is over how to reference a singular institution. However, it may be a useful yardstick. So I suppose, under duress, I would support the use of "Kunglinga Huset (Kung. Huset)."
:The issue was what the royal court calls itself (which reasonably is what we should use). Did you miss that? --SergeWoodzing (talk) 23:39, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I will support this equitable solution.RicJac (talk) 09:42, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: On the issue of "Kunglinga Huset" vs. "Kung. Huset."

message: The dispute over Kunglinga Huset vs. Kung. Huset, would probably benefit from some opinions by editors who are familiar with or at least interested in Sweden. I would suggest that this particular dispute be put to people participating at Wikiproject Sweden and see if they have some helpful suggestions.
Thank you. I hope I've been of some assistance. — e. ripley\talk 22:33, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I have already made a post over there. Thank you for the time you've taken with this rather overdone debate on such (relatively speaking) simple matters. I for one would rather spend my time on the Wiki contributing to the articles… RicJac (talk) 09:47, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: General suggestion

message: The footnotes do not support the content they are being used to reference. For instance the Wikipedia article states that the King holds honorary ranks in the armed forces. Yet this is not what the link says. It says "He is the foremost representative of the Swedish defence establishment and holds supreme rank in each of the service arms". 121.73.7.84 (talk) 18:20, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Constitutional and Official Role 

message: Please see my question here, asked on the talk page of our article Head of State. Well-cited clarification would be great. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 09:58, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Part of government at all?

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Monarchy of Sweden. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140225235411/http://www.government.se/sb/d/2853/nocache/true/a/21785/dictionary/true to http://www.government.se/sb/d/2853/nocache/true/a/21785/dictionary/true
*Added  tag to http://62.95.69.15/cgi-bin/thw?%24%7BHTML%7D=sfst_lst&%24%7BOOHTML%7D=sfst_dok&%24%7BSNHTML%7D=sfst_err&%24%7BBASE%7D=SFST&%24%7BTRIPSHOW%7D=format%3DTHW&BET=1982%3A270%24x
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120219105931/http://62.95.69.15/cgi-bin/thw?%24%7BHTML%7D=sfst_lst&%24%7BOOHTML%7D=sfst_dok&%24%7BSNHTML%7D=sfst_err&%24%7BBASE%7D=SFST&%24%7BTRIPSHOW%7D=format%3DTHW&BET=1973%3A702%24 to http://62.95.69.15/cgi-bin/thw?%24%7BHTML%7D=sfst_lst&%24%7BOOHTML%7D=sfst_dok&%24%7BSNHTML%7D=sfst_err&%24%7BBASE%7D=SFST&%24%7BTRIPSHOW%7D=format%3DTHW&BET=1973%3A702%24
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140810142752/http://www.sfv.se/Documents/Kulturvarden/2013_03/Svenska_folkets_slott.pdf to http://www.sfv.se/Documents/Kulturvarden/2013_03/Svenska_folkets_slott.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090426215817/http://www.regeringen.se/sb/d/11817/a/125035 to http://www.regeringen.se/sb/d/11817/a/125035
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 08:12, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018) 

message: I check pages listed in :Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of :Monarchy of Sweden's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "EB1911":
From Prince Leopold, Duke of Albany: 
From Charles XV: 
From Khan (title): 
From Stockholm Bloodbath: 
From Church of Sweden: Encyclopædia Britannica Eleventh Edition, article Sweden
From Tacitus: 
From Västerås: 
From Arvid Horn: 
From Birger Jarl: 
From Wismar: 
From Bulgaria: 
From Aide-de-camp: 
From Second French Empire: 
From Adolf Frederick of Sweden:  This cites:
* R. Nisbet Bain, Gustavus III. and his Contemporaries, vol. i. (London, 1895).
From Kingdom of Navarre: 
From Sweden during the late 19th century: 
From Sweden in Union with Norway: 
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. Feel free to remove this comment after fixing the refs. AnomieBOT⚡ 21:38, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orphaned references in [[:Monarchy of Sweden]]