Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Olympics/Archive 4

message: The USOC portraits of the US Olympic teams have been frequently used in bios of US Olympians. I myself uploaded many of these last year under fair use. However they are actually fair use replaceable of a living person, and it has since been determined that we cannot use these simply to show what the person looks like. As such, they will have to be deleted. Does anybody have any objection if I just delete them without having to tag and wait for a while? If people don't mind, then I am happy to delete their USOC fair use ones for them without the paperwork. Thanks, Blnguyen  (bananabucket) 03:33, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  USOC portraits 

message: Without knowing that there was already a specific template for this award (), I tried to outline a better message box for it, more compatible with our project (that yellow simply sucks!) and I created a new template (), which also shows an explanation on how to use it. 
When I tried to capitalize all words moving the page to "The Olympics Barnstar", the conflict with the current template, showed me its existence. What I'd like to ask you is if you like the new version or prefer to keep the older one? In any case, I'll transfer the "documentation" text to the current template and delete the one I mistakenly created. Parutakupiu talk || contribs 01:20, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That yellow has got to be the ugliest color, but that is that has been there and no one has changed it. I love your new version, so I think it would be appropriate for you to implement that version, canning the old ugly one. (No offense to the person who made it; I think it might have been me....) └Jared┘┌talk┐  19:29, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Cool. I'm gonna change it if nobody else is against. Parutakupiu talk || contribs 20:08, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Olympics Barnstar 

message: It was getting a little messy here, so I archived. I looked through all the headings, though, first, and everything seems to be cleared up, except for the whole Nation at the Olympics thing. I'm not sure if we should open this back up or not right now (I'm leaning toward no) but I just wanted to remind people of the issue before I stowed it away in the archives. That seems to be it; don't be afraid to bring back a discussion if you see it fit. └Jared┘┌talk┐  22:26, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Archive

message: I had started a discussion on Talk:Olympic sports, but would like to continue it here because it impacts a lot of pages.  To recap, I have collected the number of events in each sport at each Games, and plan to update the table on Olympic sports to show the number of events inside each table cell instead of just a bullet to indicate whether or not the sport was included.  The next thing I want to do with this data is update each of the main Games pages if necessary.  Specifically, each of those pages has a section that is called "Sports", or "Medals awarded", or something else.  Often, this section has a bulleted list of links, preceded by a rather lame intro (e.g. nothing more than "See the medal winners, ordered by sport:").  I'd like to standardize this section to use a similar layout on every Games page and to include the number of events.  For example, what we have at 2008 Summer Olympics#Sports is pretty good.  The only real issue I have with that specific page is that I think the section should be pulled out one level and given a better name (e.g. "Program of events").
I have collected all the numbers and can start updating pages, but of course, we will have some discrepancies for the really old Games.  For example, I count 89 events in the 1900 Summer Olympics, but the IOC page here claims 95 events, which we dutifully repeat in the infobox at the top of the page.  Interestingly, the IOC also shows 90 gold medals awarded (with a double gold in one equestrian event), which leaves us with 89 events, so I stand by that number.
As always, any comments about page layout suggestions, how to handle the discrepancies with the IOC pages, etc. are appreciated.  Andrwsc 23:51, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would like to see the removal of the list of nations participating in "sport at the Olympic games" pages.  For example, the Athletics at the Summer Olympics page would be ridiculously long if all the nations who participated in this sport were added.  I propose that only sports that are inherently team oriented, such as Basketball and Ice Hockey have a list of participating nations.  I realize the tendency to cross-reference EVERYTHING in wikipedia, but I think we should do this reasonably.  We've talked about this before Andrwsc, and unfortunately very few people gave their opinion on this subject.  I hope we can get other people to contribute. Perakhantu 21:52, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think I agree with you.  As you point out, having this kind of table for some sports (esp. athletics) is a virtual duplication of the entire list of NOCs.  I think that the number of participants is useful for individual "Sport at the year Games" pages, but a full table of every NOC times every Games is overkill to include on the top-level "Sport at the Olympic Games" pages.  However, I think team sports are an exception.  These tables are more manageable since only the larger NOCs tend to participate in those sports.  On a related note, I think that per-sport tables on the high-level "Nation at the Olympics" articles are also overkill.  Imagine if all the sports for all the Games were completed on United States at the Summer Olympics.  It's not necessary. Andrwsc 22:53, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number of events at each Games 

message: I've recently put this high-rated article on a FAC process and since then a very helpful editor (User:JHMM13) took the hard job of copy-editing it entirely two times. Still, I believe an article of this importance should be analyzed and proofread by more users, knowing or not about the subject. Plus, Wikipedia's apparent "perfect prose" shaman (Tony1) has laid out some comments and you should know how demanding he is known for, as far as writing style is concerned :S
So please, anyone reading and willing, help me with this. Especially because I'm way out of his league of English writing, since I'm not native speaker. Thanks. Parutakupiu talk || contribs 02:39, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copy-edit collaboration on [[2012 Summer Olympics bids]] 

message: Hey all! This place is very quiet lately. Lots of work, I presume — here or in real life :) 
Anyway, I had the idea of conceiving a logo for our project (about time!), on the line of the image proposal for our new userbox (which we later added provisionally to the announcements box) but without being simply an Olympic colours-shaded Athletics pictogram version. 
What do you think? Parutakupiu talk || contribs 19:33, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Cool! I'll take it! Good job. └Jared┘┌talk┐  22:30, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Great to hear that! My concept was a mix between the running athlete and the Olympic rings (without blatantly reproducing the symbol — don't wanna get sued by the IOC). I think it came out quite nicely :) Parutakupiu talk || contribs 22:43, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, nicely done!  And as for the quietness, I've been sorting out some sortable table template issues (if you'll pardon the pun) before I embark on completing the "Nation at the Olympics" pages, so stay tuned....   Andrwsc 23:22, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed. I've noticed that "sort(...)" is on top of your editing list ;) Parutakupiu talk || contribs 23:26, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject logo - suggestion 

message: Jim Thorpe has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. --Miskwito 04:06, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jim Thorpe FAR 

message: Hi! I have made same contributions on early Olympic games and I have a question. On Cycling at the 1908 Summer Olympics - Men's tandem I have found a footnote, which says, that there is a discrepancy between the times and the qualification. But maybe the time for the German team is not right. [] reports the winning time for Germany with 2:55.6 and not 2:05.6. When the time was 2:55.6 this would clear up, why Barnard/Rushen moved up to the semifinal. I am not an expert, but 2:05.6 is about 20 seconds faster than the next fastest time in this event. With standing start and no tactics more than 57 km/h - I do not know, if this was possible in 1908? Also the footnote says, that there was a hard fight in heat 4 with a very close finish - maybe the reason for such a fast race in 2:25.0? The next fastest time was from heat 7 2:43.2, more than 37 seconds slower than the German team. Doma-w 03:45, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The 2:55.6 time makes sense.  I've changed the time in our article and attributed Wudarski.  It's likely that some sort of transcription or typographical error made its way into the Official Report. -- Jonel | Speak 12:17, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Cycling at the 1908 Summer Olympics]]

message: For this/these Belgian water polo player(s) we have two differnet pages: Gérard Blitz (sportsman) and Gérard Blitz (entrepreneur). The first is shown as the Olympic medalist in 1920 and 1924 and the second is shown as the Olympic medalist in 1936. Also these pages and also the page Maurice Blitz explain their relationship.
My problem is, that de Wael, Mallon/Kamper and databaseOlympics credits all three medals to one and the same player. Wudarski and the IOC medal database report only the name Gérard Blitz without any comment, so there it is impossible to differ.
Do we have any further information? Thanks in advance! Doma-w 12:11, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Gérard Blitz

message: I noticed that the 'Nation at yyyy summer olympics' navigational templates are all set to automatically collapse.  This is odd because they are almost always the only navbox there.  For example, United States at the 2006 Winter Olympics and Luxembourg at the 1912 Summer Olympics.  The only navbox is collapsed.  I think this is a bad idea and could easily be switched to autocollapse with AWB.  Thank you.  Reywas92Talk 17:41, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that I would agree with you, somewhat. I see what you're saying, but I think we wanted to go for consistency, and when you get a template like  which has a humongous list of nations, it's really too big. But, again, I'm up for reconsideration. └Jared┘┌talk┐  18:42, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

text: As do I. They are wonderful—especially in Olympics articles—at linking together multiple similar pages. If you have any suggestion as to how to make the template like the Athens one smaller, by all means lay it out, because maybe then might we be able to say, OK, let's lock them open. └Jared┘┌talk┐  19:06, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Now, we could separate the nations by continent, and lay it out so that the one dynamic template is comprised of 6 internal, collapsed nav bars. Another way to do it would be to make it 5 continents (one for each Olympic ring, as is what the Olympic rings partly stand for) and each bar would be colored one of the rings colors. But then, would we have to do this for each bar, or could we just do it for the big ones? See User:Mzajac/Soviet-legacy AFV Navbox └Jared┘┌talk┐  19:21, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

text: If we do that, we really should use the Olympic continents. -- Jonel | Speak 02:52, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Navbox collapsing 

message: I just "created" the :Category:Competitors at the 1908 Summer Olympics by country, by resorting the country subcategories in :Category:Competitors at the 1908 Summer Olympics. But are the Olympic competitors categorized by Summer Olympics by country anywhere else on Wikipedia? If not, should they be? AecisBrievenbus 12:03, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Category:Competitors at the 1908 Summer Olympics by country 

message: Meet 2012 Summer Olympics bids — the newest project article to be  given the right to carry a little star! :D
I told you my next promotion goal would be an Olympics-related article. A big "thank you" and also my congratulations to the editors who had a hand in this task, especially Jared and also a non-member JHMM13. Parutakupiu talk || contribs 22:55, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Gosh, I hardly did anything. I just did a few fix-ups here and there, and I did help with the format when I brought it to GA, but other than that, I did nothing compared to what Parutakupiu did. Way to go! And yes, also thanks to JHMM13 for doing numerous copy-edits to the page! Great job! └Jared┘┌talk┐  23:31, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Haha! Don't be so modest because this won't let you :P Parutakupiu talk || contribs 00:14, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You still had more than double my edits! └Jared┘┌talk┐  00:18, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Then having half of my edits is "hardly nothing"? :P That's why you should have the deserved credit ;) Parutakupiu talk || contribs 00:21, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Congratulations everyone on the good work. The talk page needs to be updated though - it doesn't even have the FA banner yet. -- Scorpion 00:25, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A bot usually does that, as it's said on the FAC page. Parutakupiu talk || contribs 01:18, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Newest project FA! 

message: Hi all.  As you may or may not know, the 2007 Pan American Games are just around the corner.  This is sparkling the creation of new articles covering events at those games (such as Swimming at the Pan American Games), as well as the articles pertaining to the 2007 Games, which are already picking up or should be as the Games approach.  As you may notice, most of those articles will not be adhering to the standard formats that this Project has been looking to establish in order to raise the general quality of our coverage of Olympic sports (by the way, the Pan-Am Games follow the Olympic program, except for the inclusion of a few sports which are not Olympic, such as Bowling and Futsal).  So I thought that the people more involved with this project might be interested in taking a look, and perhaps help those articles get started already at a higher standard.  Notice that most, if not all, of the people who are or will be involved with creating those articles will not be familiar with this project or any of its concerted decisions regarding the standards for presenting sporting results.  And in any event, we might look at it as some kind of "test event" for our coverage of next year's Summer Olympics maybe :).  Cheers,  Redux 19:47, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Related project 

message: Do we have any agreement about the Olympic categories?
There was a question a few weeks ago (see above), but nobody answered.
I think it is really necessary to clean up all the categories, because there is much confusion.
Maybe we can also find a policy, how to categorize the competitors.
Thanks in advance! Doma-w 14:45, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Olympic categories

message: # We should use full name for first occurrence ("alright, nice to meet you") and only family name for the following rounds (saving space);
# I tend to wikilink all occurrences of the same (notable) link in tables, so I'd go for your thought too in here;
# I don't have a fixed opinion on this, but perhaps the country code should stay for consistency's sake...
# Highlight! Fastest, clearest way to evidence a winner ;)
In the end, I think it would be nice something like this:
Notice I left the "team-width" parameter in blank, so it seems it avoids text-wraping on the first column... at least on my browser (Firefox). Don't know if it's the same on others. Parutakupiu talk || contribs 22:51, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Parutakupiu's opinion

message: I was writing my responses and I was edit conflicted! So I haven't read any of the above, but here's what I would say:
:Hey there. I'll respond to your questions:
:#I think it's fine if just the family name is used in the whole template. The way I see it, it looks just as nice if not nicer, and any of the people that are actually important enough to have content written about them would be fully named and linked in the article text anyway, nevermind the  fact that clicking on the link will do much in the same thing. It's better not to have to worry about breaking issues.
:#I would probably say Wikilink all of the instances in the template. We have the template for that, and like you said, people might look from the right to left. I think that it looks nice and doesn't add any other problems, but this I don't really have a strong opinion either way on. 
:#Again, I kind of said this above, but I think we should have the whole shebang in each cell for continuity and just because the template works so nicely.
:#I guess this point of bolding is your call. I'm not sure if it's totally necessary, but it does clearly and quickly show who won that match, so I don't think it will either hurt or add any compelling benefits to the template. 
:So yeah, that's that. I think the templates are a good idea. They look nice and eliminate clutter (when used properly). └Jared┘┌t┐  22:53, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Jared's response

message: Well, at least among the four of us it looks like we have consensus for the original style I used on the judo and taekwondo pages, so thanks to all for the quick feedback.
Also see Tennis at the 2004 Summer Olympics - Men's singles for another bracket style.  Those results use the full name in every cell, which looks good, but they do not have the link (through the country code) to the appropriate nation article, which is something we are trying to consistently include.  
For Doma-w, as for your updates to the football pages, those look perfect to me.  The standard format for team sports brackets and results is well-defined, as used on World Cup pages etc., so I think your use of those templates for brackets and match results is spot-on.  I think there are some variations with respect to individual sports, and I just want to make sure that all the Olympic articles are at least consistent.  Andrwsc 23:01, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oops, missed Jared's second edit.  Perhaps we have consensus for Parutakupiu's version, with the full name for the first round, but otherwise identical to what we have now.  I think some brackets may have issues with 1024x768 screens, which is the smallest I like to design for, but I will check this out.  Andrwsc 23:04, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Personally, I would say just the family name if fine, but I wouldn't care either way. └Jared┘┌t┐  23:18, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I like Parutakupiu's version. This looks very fine and the width is not really more. Then there were all parameters included. Doma-w 00:25, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Andrwsc's followup

message: Just a minor clarification, but for consistency, should we get in the practice of bold-facing the winners of each match in the bracket, along with that person's score(s)? I think that it's helpful, but I noticed that I haven't been doing it myself. So just out of curiosity, I want to know what others think before I do it. └Jared┘┌t┐  15:53, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Bolding the winners?

message: I've created Youth Olympic Games; I've meant to do it since the end of April but I hadn't had the time. Anyway, I just thought I'd tell you in case you had no idea the IOC planned to do this; I thought it pretty interesting. Expand it or add images, etc, if you want. └Jared┘┌t┐  14:35, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Youth Olympic Games 

message: This user AnonEMouse has put an AfD tag on several "Nation at the Year Summer Olympics" type articles (deletion page with a list of other tagged articles), just because they're almost-empty stubs for small nations which didn't win anything at those Games, therefore "lack notability". Shouldn't he at least have warned this project? Parutakupiu talk || contribs 17:16, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Without any comment. Only with a shake of the head. Well, it's much easier to delete than to create. Doma-w 18:13, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In this case: to expand. But Andrwsc has already shown that it wasn't that difficult to add content. He was in a hurry but I bet he wouldn't be if he knew the ammount of work required for this project. Parutakupiu talk || contribs 18:20, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deletion rampage 

message: In general: 	
*We decided to count nations, like Suriname in 1960, which did not compete in an event, but were entered and participated in the opening ceremonies. 	
In 1960 then we had to correct the infobox to 84 nations, but maybe we can write 83+1 and add a footnote, and also the same footnote to Suriname?	
Because I am not really happy to show these nations as "full" participating nations. In 1900 Summer Olympics we have four nations, which really competed and in the case of Luxembourg won a gold medal, but they were not counted. So in 1960 we count a nation, which we know that has not competed (Surimane), but in 1900 we do not count a nation, which we know that has won a gold medal?	
Maybe it will be possible to find a way.	
In 1964 the infobox had to shown 93+1 (for Libya)	
1968: still missing Tanzania. :) I know, it is very hard to find, but I have the same source: Vol.3	
Athletics:	Norman Chihota 100 metres/heat 9 and 200 metres/heat 1 (page 521 and 522)
	Claver Kamanya 400 metres/round 1/heat 1, round 2/heat 1 and semi-final 1 (page 521 and 522)
	John Akhwari marathon 57. and last finisher! :) (page 532)
Boxing:	Middleweight (- 75 kg)
	Titos Simba What a pity! Maybe he was the second best boxer in this tournament! Losing in round 1 to Christopher Finnegan (GBR)  - becoming Olympic champion and gold medailst! (page 609)
1972: the infobox says 121, but our list has 122 members. So what to do?	
1976 perfect	
1980: With Liberia we have 81 - the infobox says 80. Maybe also a footnote?
Doma-w 23:28, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good catch with TAN in 1968.  I have created that article and added it to the appropriate navigation boxes.  As for the numbers in the infoboxes, I would prefer to see a single number with a footnote (e.g. so that it looks like "84 [1]" instead of "83+1".  Footnotes are your friend - they can explain any strange discrepancy we uncover!  Andrwsc 23:47, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I like footnotes and here they are really necessary. Because now our lists differ from the most of others. :) Doma-w 00:42, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I thought you were going to attach the footnote to the infobox at the top of the page.  Anyway, I've updated those articles to change the section footnotes into explanatory sentences in the section's introductory paragraphs.  I've also added the numbers of competitors where the official reports had those numbers already tabulated.  The end result is fairly clear, I think, handling even cases like BRU in 1988.  Let me know if you are ok with my changes!  Andrwsc 22:17, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: News

message: Please have a look at: Stanley Nantais and Talk:Stanley Nantais This is a Canadian basketball player. He was in the squad for the Berlin Games, but he did not play in a single match and the IOC medal database did not list him as medalist. So the medalbox and the "cat:Olympic silver medalists for Canada" had to be deleted? But then the discussion will continue? Doma-w 21:48, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Stanley Nantais

message: United States at the 1936 Summer Olympics shows the gymnast Alfred Joachim as flag bearer, but there are same sources which report the water polo player Wally O'Connor as flag bearer. Do we have any further information? Thanks. Doma-w 10:34, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: US flag bearer 1936