Talk:Laskarina Bouboulina

message: Please consider the following:
"As with many national heroes, recent historians have found reason to criticize her. Some charge that she she had Turkish and Jewish women killed for their jewelery and had the cannons defending Naphplion melted down for her own profit"
Need to back up comments with sources. 
Basic History lesson.
 
Bouboulinas death when she was shot was istant . she was shot in the head and see had no time to say anything as last words. the ,, help me stand i want to see the sea before i die was said by the actor at the movie but in real history is not true. i visited the museum at Spetses twice and spoke to the people their , also study the history about her death . the people again at the museum few days ago confirmed me that her death was istant and she said nothing at all as she died. John Athens Greece 12/9/07  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.75.254.193 (talk) 18:43, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Old comment 

message: Arvanites belong to the Greek nation. We will not say that "Someone is a Sarakatsani/Aromanian/Tsakonian hero" but "Someone is a Greek hero...He is of Sarakatsan/Aromanian/Tsakonian origin". - Sthenel (talk) 18:20, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: They may be part of the Greek nation, but their ethnicity is different, thats why we say "Arvanites". . Also at the time speaking (i.e. 19 century), they were called Albanian Greeks . Also about Bubulina itself, sources are clear on what she is. I cannot just understand this hatress from Greek editors, towards Arvanites.Balkanian`s word (talk) 18:25, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Per WP:NOTABLE, nationality is usually mentioned in the lead, but ethnicity only when it goes directly to the subject's notability.  Laskarina Bouboulina was notable for participating in the Greek War of Independence and for being one of the few women leaders to do so.   She is not notable simply for being Arvanite.  Of course, the article should mention that, but the Early life section would be more appropriate rather than the lead.  --Athenean (talk) 18:30, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Why do you always read half of my posts Athenean? (I think this is a clear case of WP:IDONTHEARTHAT). Let me say it again: at the time speaking (i.e. 19 century), they were called Albanian Greeks .Balkanian`s word (talk) 18:35, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

text: I think I do not have to say that that implies nationallity.Balkanian`s word (talk) 18:36, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I think your lack of knowledge of English is getting in the way here.  Ethnicity and nationality refer to two completely different things.  Nationality refers to citizenship and belonging to a state.  There was no Albanian state before 1913, so there was no such thing as Albanian nationality until 1913.  Before 1913, there was only Albanian ethnicity.  And WP:NOTABLE is pretty clear on ethnicity.  So I suggest you consult a dictionary and stop wasting everyone's time.   --Athenean (talk) 18:42, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Lol, you do not even know what nationallity is. But ok, as you say: Laskarina Bouboulina was an Ottoman heroine, since she lived in the Ottoman Empire. The same with Botsaris, et.al. lol. Balkanian`s word (talk) 18:45, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: This, coming from someone who can't even spell "nationallity" (sic), and can't even string together a coherent sentence in English.   --Athenean (talk) 18:49, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah thats me! The only problem is that this is not about English-knowledge, but about the difference between nationality, ethnicity and citizenship that Greek editors of wiki have never learned. So, are we ok? Shall we proceed on "Laskarina Bouboulina (Greek: Λασκαρίνα Μπουμπουλίνα, 11 May 1771 - 22 May 1825) was an Ottoman heroine of the Greek War of Independence in 1821."?Balkanian`s word (talk) 18:53, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't have time for your journalistic word games.  She was Greek by nationality, Albanian by ethnicity.  Enough said.  --Athenean (talk) 18:57, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

text: Why? According to Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies): "In the normal case this will mean the country of which the person is a citizen when the person became notable", so she is Ottoman. As I think is pretty clear, Wikipedia works on "todays words" not "19th century words" so Albanian Greeks, Greek Albanians, Arvanites, et al, should have todays meanings. Bubulina was a Ottoman citizien (as all inhabitants back then), and her nationality of course was Albanian-Greek. Its too clear (and by the way sourced).Balkanian`s word (talk) 19:06, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Greek/Arvanite 

message: There is an obvious pov pushing mechanism of Greek contributors, to add the word "Greek" before the term "Arvanite community". This is
*irrelevant, as that she was Greek is written in the lead
*Totally POV, as what Arvanites were has nothing to do with this page.
It is like adding in every page where Souliotes are, that they were Cham Albanians. If this POV-pushing is not cleared, I will undo it.Balkanian`s word (talk) 08:49, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Greek Arvanites seems to me POV pushing too. We have an article on Arvanites, so saying Greek Arvanites, IS IMO POV pushing. I'll drop a line to Sthenel to hear his version. --Sulmues Let's talk  21:13, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

text: As far as I am concerned, yes.. It has no place in the article. - Sthenel (talk) 10:24, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  pov-pushing 

message: Place of birth mention in "Early life" paragraph does not match the place of birth mentioned bellow the main picture.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Papadi (talk • contribs) 09:10, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Place of birth 

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thread_title:  File:Photoinside 10.jpg Nominated for Deletion 

message: It's a little depressing seeing POV pushers hiding her Arvanite origin. Aigest (talk) 13:11, 3 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Arvanite 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I wonder why there is a weird tendency to add the "Bububulina" form while there is already a latinized "Bouboulina" name in infobox. It's definitely a unnecessary addition. Both Bubulina & Bouboulina are spelled the same in English. The addition is completely useless for an English speaker in wikipedia.Alexikoua (talk) 22:45, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Well let me explain it to you Alexikoua, Laskarina was an ethnic Albanian and was part of the Arvanite community of Hydra. It is therefore more than justified to add her name in her native language, namely in Albanian. Nishjan (talk) 19:24, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: You added an ahistorical spelling, the current spelling is in full agreement with the Arvanite one: even if you put 'u' or 'ou' it's spelled the same. The fact the she comes from an Arvanite community is mentioned in article. Try to familirize with MOSBIO.Alexikoua (talk) 02:08, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: On the other hand you removed the spelling of Fan Noli's birth name as he also used to write it during his early years []. You understand that's disruption. Use only historical names.Alexikoua (talk) 02:12, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Addition of useless spelling

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090101123231/http://www.bankofgreece.gr/en/Banknotes/coin_selection.asp?Value=001-020drs to http://www.bankofgreece.gr/en/Banknotes/coin_selection.asp?Value=001-020drs
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: # KH is cited as a source about  Pinotsis being emprisoned "shortly after the birth of his daughter", but she writes that B was born while her father was emprisoned; i wouldn't dare to modify a sourced text, but the two sources disagree and one is misrepresented.
# Xiradaki disagrees with Kolokotronis about the result of the battle at Argos (failure for the Ottomans for the first, success for the second); there is therefore a need to add some kind of "according to xiradaki", if possible with her source.
# how can B be at the siege of Monemvasia with the agamemnon and commanding another ship in Galaxidi in the same time ?  (One answer is that the Agamemnon didn't take part to the siege of monemvasia but participated to the spetsiot expedition to the gulf of Corinth and Galaxidi, according to spetsiot 19c historians citing detailed documentary evidence)
# the dates for the capture of Palamidi is universally given as the night between 29 november (old style)/11 december (new style) and 30 nov/12 dec (Saint Andrew's Day). So, were did Xiradaki take her date for this event???
# the source about admilralship states the Russian delegation arrived "a few day after her death", implying that the nomination would not have been post mortem (it was taking more than a few days for news to go from Spetses to StPetersburg and back) (NB the interpretation that Alexander postumeoudly granted her the title is not in the source, so accusation of modifying a sourced text is pointless)— Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.158.121.254 (talk) 12:40, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Problems in the article