Talk:Learned helplessness

message: I believe the original experiment by  Martin Seligman is meaningless.
I believe he started using mice or rats,  but didn't get the result he wanted so he chose an animal that has been bred to TRUST HUMANS, WORK WITH HUMANS, AND WORK FOR HUMANS.
After repeated shocks he claims the dogs wouldn't let him lead them out of the shock area.
He claims learned helplessness.
WRONG.  The dogs weren't stupid,  they knew it was Seligman that was torturing them and the bond of trust between dog and man was broken.
When he tried to lead them away, the dogs didn't trust him, possibly thinking he was leading them to an even worse place.
Martin Seligman is a disgusting example of a "human being" to torture trusting dogs the way he did.
71.9.22.214 (talk) 21:06, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Data Mining

message: There is a wealth of unsorted info and articles on this topics out there; please editors or somebody with power start the learned helplessnes page so I can help build it up.  I think I hav eproben my point enough with this info.
Please help add this vital and missing concept via getting the references and distinctions in the right format and contrasts with learned helplessness.  I can't do this alone as not a a wikipedia expert in references and not a psychologists.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.162.221.82 (talk) 21:24, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Besides the obvious linguistic similarity why is "learned hopelessness" related to learned helplessness as a distinct topic worthy of its own section, much less article?  In the only half-way notable source I looked up they called "learned hopelessness" an extreme form of helplessness, eg: here and called "learned pessimism" a mild case of learned helplessness.  It doesn't appear to be a distinct condition but, rather, a clever play on words for variations of degrees of learned helplessness (and uncommonly used as such.)  One source I found accreditted the term to Martin Seligman, the source for the theory on learned helplessness.  Indeed many of the sources I saw, poor as they were, seem to use hopelessness as a synonym for helplessness.  Perhaps learned hopelessness should redirect to learned helplessness?--Cybermud (talk) 01:56, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: LEARNED HOPELESSNESS

message: the sentence: "An example involves concentration camp prisoners during the Holocaust, when some prisoners, called Mussulmen, refused to care or fend for themselves." sounds unbased to me (the mussulmen were people who starved to near-death.) i'm not changing it, but i think it's wrong.
--84.109.54.117 21:03, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Mussulmen

message: This article should really mention Martin Seligman rather than Anthony Robbins when possible, since Seligman had a key role in the research developing the concept and Robbins did not.  (I know, I know, the helping hand is at the end of my arm, but I'm mentioning this here because my new job is taking up most of my time and I may not get to it as soon as I'd like.) -- Antaeus Feldspar 00:34, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Martin Seligman 

message: 1. Those above are right; Martin Seligman needs to be credited prominently with a theory he created and researched. Some early Wikipedia editor's familiarity with what Tony Robbins had to say about it does not mean that references to Tony Robbins belong in this article. 
2. The idea of total institutions is controversial, and by no means are the institutions mentioned on that page extremely predictable, and even if they were, this is not a prerequisite for Learned Helplessness (this may be another example of Tony Robbins' armchair philosophizing about Learned Helplessness without his being sufficiently familiar with the research); I tried to save this paragraph as best I could.
3. "Personal, pervasive, or permanent" is the description Martin Seligman uses (for those of you who thought this was Tony Robbins).
4. There was a second edition of Learned Optimism in 1998, but Seligman lists the 1990 book in his Curriculum Vitae.
-DoctorW 23:15, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Acting on the suggestions above 

message: "...even though he rarely bothered to turn off the noise..."
It is my understanding that the button was not connected to the noise.  It is quite important for it means that the improved performance stemmed solely from the BELIEF that the subject was able to turn it off.  That is, a delusion may help one to cope.  
-Pepper 150.203.224.165 (talk) 13:10, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Button not connected

message: These sections are poorly written and even seem to draw the wrong conclusions from the research that they cite.
: They're also very biased in favour of those wielding social power in cruel fashion, aiding and abetting the blaming of the individual for causing her/his own consequences post-cruelty, and thereby allowing those with social power to escape not only responsibility for what they've done, but the necessary actions to repair the damage they've caused to individuals, groups, nations, and the world.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.243.49.144 (talk) 18:17, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Helplessness in People and their Health & Social Problem and Immunization 

message: If the alleged quotations are true, they need to be sourced and explained more clearly. If the quotations can't be sourced, then this subsection should be deleted. - Pointillist (talk) 22:47, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Usage of Learned helplessness for interrogating prisoners of CIA and guantanamo" 

message: It occurs to me that at least some of what we see in the malaise in minority communities, e.g. black, Hispanic, and nations, e.g. Haiti, may well be an idendity of helplessness writ large. I have not seen this posited as an explanation for some of the widely recognized phenomenon. It will be interesting to see whether a Black as President of the USA has a nuturing effect on the community, i.e. a positive, "no more (racial) excuses" affect on Black society. Frankatca (talk) 17:12, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There's no such thing as 'Black society' - there's society, full stop.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.243.49.144 (talk) 18:15, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Implications for minorities? 

message: Removing this: "(how? their lever did not work)"
From this sentence: "For the most part, the Group 3 dogs, who had previously "learned" that nothing they did had any effect on the shocks, simply lay down passively and whined. Even though they could have easily escaped the shocks (how? their lever did not work), the dogs didn't try."
Obviously the person who added it failed to understand that there were two parts of the test... Sardrith (talk) 04:18, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  1.1 Seligman and Maier 

message: The Study done by Weiss offers another, and in my eyes, a lot better explanation for the behavior first noted by Seligman&Maier.
It's not "learned helplessness" causing it, it's just having not enough norepinephrin (noradrenalin) in your brain.
But read it for yourselves:
http://www.psychosomaticmedicine.org/content/37/6/522.full.pdf 
Cheers
R.M. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.171.166.84 (talk) 07:12, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  What about the 'motor activation deficit' hypothesis proposed by J. Weiss & al. (1975) ? 

message: ===Potential Work Cited===
 
===Rough Draft outline for Neurobiological Section===
- Our topic is learned helplessness:
~~Overview - Ashley~~
 
The term ‘learned helplessness’ refers to a constellation of behavioral changes that follow exposure to stressors that are not controllable by means of behavioral responses, but that fail to occur if the stressor is controllable. This section will address the nature of learned helplessness, as well as the role of the dorsal raphe nucleus, serotonin, and corticotropin-releasing hormone in mediating the behavioral effects of uncontrollable stressors.
 
~~Brain Activity Summary - Ashley~~
 
This section will examine the activity in the medial prefrontal cortex, dorsal hippocampus, septum, hypothalamus, and amygdale as well as different hormonal/ neurochemical changes that take place when states of helplessness are educed
~~Gender differences: Heather~~
- Male and female brains and how they differ and how they are 
~~PTSD: Mary~~
~~Depression: Mary: the link between learned helplessness and depression and why it matters.~~
~~Treatment: Heather~~
- Exactly how learned helplessness can be treated and the various options. Which one is the best and an explanation why.
===Instructor's comments===
*Group, remember you are to add a section on neurobiological perspectives on the Learned Helplessness article. The proposed "Overview" is general definition and it is already covered in the article, so it's not appropriate to include in this section on neurobiology. 
*The proposed "Brain activity" section is precisely what you need to cover
*If you want to talk about "gender differences", this must be a subsection under your "Brain activity" section and should address gender differences specific to the neurobiology of learned helplessness (i.e., don't present gender differences in brain organization in general terms)
*PTSD, Depression, and Treatment sections are more appropriately dealt with in other sections of the Learned helplessness article and should not be subsections under your neurobiology section
*So, focus on the section on "Brain activity". There's plenty in this section for you to research.
*The references you have posted so far are not in the right format, and it's hard for me to judge whether they are appropriate. Nevertheless, from what I can figure out, it does not seem like any will be very helpful. Look for animal studies on fear and learned helplessness. There should be textbooks and chapters on this, so you shouldn't need to read original research. If you're still having trouble, come see me in my office; I have a textbook with a small section on this that can be a good starting point.
Neuropsychprof (talk) 17:26, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Roosevelt University PSYC 336 Project

message: *Group, remember you are to add a section on neurobiological perspectives on the Learned Helplessness article. The proposed "Overview" is general definition and it is already covered in the article, so it's not appropriate to include in this section on neurobiology. 
*The proposed "Brain activity" section is precisely what you need to cover
*If you want to talk about "gender differences", this must be a subsection under your "Brain activity" section and should address gender differences specific to the neurobiology of learned helplessness (i.e., don't present gender differences in brain organization in general terms)
*PTSD, Depression, and Treatment sections are more appropriately dealt with in other sections of the Learned helplessness article and should not be subsections under your neurobiology section
*So, focus on the section on "Brain activity". There's plenty in this section for you to research.
*The references you have posted so far are not in the right format, and it's hard for me to judge whether they are appropriate. Nevertheless, from what I can figure out, it does not seem like any will be very helpful. Look for animal studies on fear and learned helplessness. There should be textbooks and chapters on this, so you shouldn't need to read original research. If you're still having trouble, come see me in my office; I have a textbook with a small section on this that can be a good starting point.
Neuropsychprof (talk) 17:26, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Instructor's comments

message: *Is it possible to add more to the 'Neurobiological Perspective' section? These regions mentioned, like the basolaterial nucleues and central nucleus of the amygdalas play a role in learned helplessness, but how? Are there any studies detailing the interplay of these Limbic system structures in producing Learned Helplessness? Is there a study examining the location Serotonin goes to in the brain when Learned Helplessness is present. This section should also hyperllnk all of the brain regions it includes, such as Raphe Nuclei, medial prefrontal cortex, dorsal hippocampus, septum, hypothalamus, stria terminalis and amygdala structures. The article is relatively balanced, which is good. Information is reliable. The information is sound; however, more information can be included in each some of the subsections, coherently tying it together to how it produces the phenomenon of Learned Helplessness. Phineurosia8  —Preceding undated comment added 01:24, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Critique of Article

message: * Expand with more details. What changes are observed in the cortexes. How do these changes influence learned helplessness. 
* There is a lot of research done with animals (specifically livestock). Are there any similarities to humans?
Smallman12q (talk) 22:43, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Smallman12q comments

message: * The information provided is a great start to the article.  Learned helplessness is a very large topic and a few more solid sources will make the article stand out.  
* Add more information from research experiments that explain the similarities and differences of learned helplessness between animals and humans.
Nszynal-ru (talk) 19:35, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Nszynal-ru comments

message: * I really enjoyed your section on the Neurobiological Perspective. I think it's an important addition to your article. You mention that serotonin plays a big role in learned helplessness but you don't actually say what that role is. I think it would help if you were more specific when explaining that. Specificity is key.
*Under that same section (Neurobiological Perspective) you mention other brain regions that are involved. That's great that you include those specific regions but you fail to mention how they're involved. No need to go into great lengths but adding this information will make the content of your article more substantial. 
*If possible, going into more detail about the different brain activity (under Neurobiological Perspective) could be very interesting. Again, no need to make this section unnecessary lengthly but brain activity is a major part of this section and I believe it will help you guys add depth to your article. Maybe including what type of brain activity occurs and when? Also, think that your organization of this section is great! Very easy to follow and the flow works. 
* Under your section titled, Health Implications and under the Depression section, I think starting this section off with defining what pessimistic explanatory style is would be beneficial for people who are not familiar with this topic. Otherwise, the content is substantial and easy to follow. 
Michellepapandrea (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 01:06, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Michellepapandrea comments

message: Group, I'm very concerned that you have not added substantially to the content in the Neurobiological perspectives section. I will email this group some readings. Please divide up the readings, meet to formulate an outline, and please come see me if you have questions. Neuropsychprof (talk) 07:28, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Instructor's feedback

message: For the section Detail- It discusses that Seligman and Maier's (Failure to escape traumatic shock) study came first, then Overmier and Seligman's (Effects... avoidance responding) came later that year. This cannot be possible, as Seligman and Overmier was published in February, and Seligman and Maier was published in May. As further proof, the second study (S&M's Failure to Escape...) cites the first study in its beginning paragraphs. Rewrite? --Ispellwords (talk) 03:59, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Detail: Which study came first? 

message: It was no learned helplessness.
The proband has to be activly not being able to escape the stimulus. Passivity is contradictionary.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.96.92.181 (talk) 18:38, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Emergence under torture 

message: Slavery is responsibility without power, and tyranny is power without responsibility. Strange that slavery/serfdom/conscription and its other forms aren't mentioned since "trained" defeatist behavior of "getting along with the program" similar to obedience in conscripted soldiers or concentration camp prisoners sounds like exactly it. Just like common sense isn't common, it's a distortion of one's common sense through the forced upon them conditions and treatment by others, destruction of their royal self-sovereignty and freedoms, acceptance of their place in a lower strata relative to certain others. Maybe because slaves have always been majority men, it's ignored in this whole topic more, very gynocentric of it.. but not surprised.Gendalv (talk) 07:25, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  slavery 

message: The article says: "Research has shown that those with an internal, stable, and global attributional style for negative events can be more at risk for a depressive reaction to failure experiences. " and there is no source here. 
On the other hand in this article: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locus_of_control# we have this sentence: "People with an external locus of control tend to be more stressed and prone to clinical depression.[10]" and there is source for that. 
Should I change the text in this article and replace "internal" with "external"? Netizer (talk) 13:38, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Internal vs External Locus of control and its effects.