Talk:Valencian language

message: I will made a better explanation. I DID NOT change anything because I wanted!  did !!! I will explain it here calmly because this time he is wrong.'''
This was the last stable and consensual introduction in the Valencian language article: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Valencian&diff=667207894&oldid=667205082 And I only returned to this intro. This intro was the stable introduction until Joshua Johnson arrived the "edit war day" of 25 July and he instead of reverting my changes he made 10 followed changes: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Valencian&action=history and in one of them he changed the introduction without asking anyone and without discussing it in the talk page. He is the only one making editions with no support from other users because several users edited the article from the last stable edition (667205082) and then Joshua Johnson did change it without the support from any other user here: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Valencian&oldid=672980621 
Yes, I've made editions who cost me the block of 48h, but those ones were saying: 
Valencian ( or ; endonym: valencià, valenciano, llengua valenciana, or idioma valencià) is the language spoken in the Valencian Community"Dictamen de l'Acadèmia Valenciana de la Llengua sobre els principis i criteris per a la defensa de la denominació i l'entitat del valencià". Report from Acadèmia Valenciana de la Llengua about denomination and identity of Valencian. in Spain and the name used to refer to the own language of the Valencian Communityhttp://www.congreso.es/consti/estatutos/estatutos.jsp?com=79&tipo=2&ini=1&fin=7&ini_sub=1&fin_sub=1; although it can be also used to name the Catalan language in that area. In the Valencian Community, Valencian is the traditional language and is co-official with Spanish. A standardized form exists, based on the Southern Valencian dialect.
While the consensued and the actual edition I've made (according to the last stable edit before the editions of Joshua) is :
Valencian' ( or ; endonym: valencià, valenciano,Estatuto de Autonomía de la Comunitat Valenciana  llengua valenciana, or idioma valencià) is the variety of Catalan as spoken in the Valencian Community, Spain. It is often considered a distinct language from Catalan by people from the Valencian Community; however, linguists consider it a dialect of Catalan, because it is mostly identical to Catalan's other dialects, which generates some political controversy. In the Valencian Community, Valencian is the traditional language and is co-official with Spanish. A standardized form exists, based on the Southern Valencian dialect.
Which is quite different from the one that costed me the 48h block and this edition was supported by a lot of users because it remained untouched until this edition of Joshua made 3 days ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Valencian&oldid=672980621  
Now he is accusing me to be edit warring and it's saying me "what I pint here" taking advantage of my situation while he is writing anything he wants in the article without the support of any user. --HardstyleGB (talk) 20:16, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Joshua Jonathan edit warring and accuses me 

message: The first sentence references Wheeler 2006 p. 186 via a shortened footnote but there is no Wheeler 2006 in the Bibliography. As this defines what Valencian is, it should be urgently sourced, or altered if a source cannot be found.  
Further, it should summarize something covered in the body (as required by WP:LEAD and MOS:INTRO) but I see nothing in the body about a basic definition of what Valencian is, certainly not in the first section of the body, where it logically would go.  Mathglot (talk) 20:31, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: It looks like the cite is "M.H. Wheeler, "Catalan", in the Encyclopedia of Language and Linguistics, 2006" and is in the current article, just not formatted properly. Ogress smash! 05:30, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Broken ref link in lead sentence 

message: I would suggest to you now to solve the neutrality problem and reflect the following facts by the following order:
#Valencian (language) is a synonym of Catalan (as the AVL states)
#Valencian (i.e. Valencian dialect(s)) is a set of varieties of Catalan (as most linguists agree)
#Valencian (language) is official in the Valencian Country (Valencian Statute of Autonomy: També es definix la llengua valenciana com a pròpia de la Comunitat Valenciana i l'idioma valencià, junt amb el castellà, els dos idiomes oficials. S'incorporen a l'Estatut les institucions creades després de la promulgació de la Llei Orgànica 5/1982 i al mateix temps es ressenya en l'idioma valencià el nom de totes les institucions valencianes perquè siguen utilitzades així, tant quan s'escriga, o es parle, en valencià com en castellà.)
#Valencian has a standard variety
#Some groups advocate it is a separate language from Catalan (Catalan language secessionism / Valencian language controversy)
: — Jɑuмe (dis-me) 22:40, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Once again, you need to provide a source that Valencian is completely different. Legally, yes, something  agreed to. However, you need to back it up that it is a completly different language. The WP:ONUS is on you. TheKaloo (talk) 00:52, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree. There are several reasons and official sources to mantain that Catalan and Valencian are different dialects from the same language. First, common sense (both are completely mutually intelligent, except for a few regional words, differences that are considerably smaller than with different varieties of Spanish and that also happen within, for example, of "Catalonia's Catalan"). The official academy for the Spanish language, which is used to define any legal terms, also considers them dialects of the same language https://dle.rae.es/valenciano. Both the Acadèmia Valenciana de la Llengua and the Institue for Catalan Studies, the official and higher institutions regarding Valencian-Catalan in each region, define them as dialects of the same language http://www.avl.gva.es/lexicval/ https://dlc.iec.cat/Results?DecEntradaText=valenci%C3%A0&AllInfoMorf=False&OperEntrada=0&OperDef=0&OperEx=0&OperSubEntrada=0&OperAreaTematica=0&InfoMorfType=0&OperCatGram=False&AccentSen=False&CurrentPage=0&refineSearch=0&Actualitzacions=False. Saugch (talk) 10:51, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Valencian = Catalan 

message: Is it very relevant we indicate a Spanish translation of the term "Valencian"? :) Also, what's the pronunciation of valenciano, is "v" pronounced with a /v/, and "c" with /s/?  — Jɑuмe (dis-me) 23:59, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm surprised you're asking that second question, but it's most probably . Peter238 (talk) 00:16, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm asking because this article is about "Valencian", and it says valenciano is an endonym. Also, if it's an endonym of Valencian, it could be pronounced according to the phonetic rules of Valencian, couldn't it?  — Jɑuмe (dis-me) 00:30, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

text: I pronounce it in many ways, but the way I use more now is   — Jɑuмe (dis-me) 00:37, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm... actually now I'm more confused than you, but if valenciano is a Spanish term, then I guess it wouldn't be even used in Valencian, as it's just a word from a different language. But it's all a guess really. Maybe simply ask people from your city? Peter238 (talk) 00:41, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Some of them pronounce it like me, others pronounce it in a different way. The Valencian Country has many types of people, so it's difficult to establish a standard pronunciation pattern for it. Just out of curiosity, doesn't your pronunciation include some diacritics?  — Jɑuмe (dis-me) 00:52, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I used a broad phonetic transcription, so no. Peter238 (talk) 00:54, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I understand that because you live in the North. Perhaps the user that added it could transcribe it for us, with diacritrics of course ^.^  — Jɑuмe (dis-me) 01:08, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I live in Poland, if that's what you're asking. Peter238 (talk) 01:17, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, and I don't think that's a problem for me, we can always exchange our knowledge about languages and other stuff  — Jɑuмe (dis-me) 02:02, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Valenciano 

message: Most valencian citizens believe that the Valencian is a language other than Catalan.
And picks the wikipedia in Spanish , and is duly justified ( see link) .
Therefore it must be corrected where it says that a minority of the valencians thinks it's a different language.
Thank you. 
link:
http://www.ara.cat/paisvalencia/valencians-catala-valencia-llengues-diferents_0_1139286353.html
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valenciano  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.77.16.2 (talk) 13:19, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Correction error data 

message: I do not know what Mr Kebab means telling "rv most likely a ref falsification" concerning my edition but when people revert other people's editions, they should, at least, argue concerning the articles or the contents in the articles. 
--Penelope08 (talk) 11:07, 18 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Reference falsification is misrepresenting what the reference used to back up a certain statement says. Are your edits in alignment with Wheeler (2005)? If they aren't, they must be reverted. Mr KEBAB (talk) 11:11, 18 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: in alignment with Wheeler (2005) ??? I really do not know what are you talking about, and for me this is only an article in wikipedia, my only interesting in editing is to contribute to sharing acknowledgement --Penelope08 (talk) 11:18, 18 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the clarification. Reverting. Please read WP:VERIFIABILITY. Mr KEBAB (talk) 11:29, 18 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  reverting editions 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This is common sense. The two dialects or languages understand each other through literacy. The article is wrong about them being only dialects, given that even GRAMMAR goes two ways, even beyond 'pronunciation'. ALSO, the standardizing groups got em political motives, needless to say; they ain't true linguists. Yoandri Dominguez Garcia 19:07, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Valencian and Catalan have the same 'orthography', but that/literacy alone cannot be for saying 'intelligibility' 

message: The lede of this article doesn't make any sense as it stands now. What does it mean for a language to be extra-officially used in a place? And how does this language 'refer', in any meaningful sense, to another language? I see you are having some discussion about this now, so I won't make any changes. I suggest reverting back to the last edition by MarnetteD. It made more sense. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.156.37.206 (talk • contribs) 10:32, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: The first sentence should say "Valencian is one of two standard varieties of the Catalan language", or something like that. The article is about what Valencian is (i.e. the thing normally called Valencian or simply Catalan in English), not what the noun Valencian means or how it's used mainly in Catalan or Spanish (so not Valencian but valencià or valenciano, which are different, non-English words) in the Valencian Community in Spain. Wiktionary is the appropriate place for the latter two. Sol505000 (talk) 13:11, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: As for other names like it, Valencian will eventually mean in English whatever it means in Spain or in the Valencian Community. It makes no sense to act as if such a name had a very accurate and well-defined meaning for English speakers. --Jotamar (talk) 19:14, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unclear lede 

message: There are examples throughout the article with /ʃ/, spelled ⟨x⟩. It is however not present in the consonant table. Is it supposed to be there, or is it not considered a separate phoneme? Araoro (talk) 11:23, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you are right, so I have added it. It is /ʒ/ which does not occur independently, but only as an allophone of /ʃ/. LynwoodF (talk) 15:48, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: If it's an allophone of  then it's , not  (see International Phonetic Alphabet#Brackets and transcription delimiters). Sol505000 (talk) 00:54, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  , you are right, of course. Once we are talking about allophones, we are being precise. LynwoodF (talk) 22:19, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, I'm terrible at distinguishing 2020 from 2021 when the month is the same. I read them as the same month in the same year. A thread necro moment for me, I guess. Sol505000 (talk) 03:33, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  /ʃ/? 

message: Just to have it documented that ISO 639-6 has been retracted in 2014 and it's not correct that there is no ISO 639-3 code: the ISO code it falls under as a variant is ca/cat. I know that there is criticism about the mnemonic aspects of this code, which is also the case e.g. for Arpitan, which has the frp language code according to the wrong Franco-Provençal naming, and e.g. gsw for Alsatian, which is the same code as for a big part of Swiss German languages. I do agree that we need a better way to deal with variants, but the information as it stands in the infobox on the side is not correct. I don't correct it right now to allow for comments and to avoid an edit war about it. LaPingvino (talk) 14:32, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Language code