Talk:Doogh

message: Attention doogh lovers: Use this template to tell everyone how you love doogh!--Zereshk 10:28, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Doogh template

message: I'm confused. The article states that doogh is "similar to [..] Ayran, although the latter is not carbonated." Does that mean that doogh is carbonated? While a later section addresses this point, it should really be mentioned sooner. -- Ec5618 19:53, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: doogh can be carbonated or not traditional doogh is not carbonated at all!!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.200.96.190 (talk) 15:16, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Carbonated

message: Dogh is very common in Afghanistan and common in the western half of Pakistan, and is NEVER carbonated. In the eastern half of Pakistan it turns into lassi and is either sweet or salty, I'm not sure of the difference between salty lassi and traditional dogh, but it tastes very different. 
Afghanistani dogh is quote sour, frequently made from sheep/goat milk and is never carbonated or sweetened. I live in the viscinity and have never had sweetened dogh (except in Karachi, southeast Pakistan) or carbonated dogh except in Iran (one sip was quote enough). Dogh however is a daily ration in Balochistan and most of Afghanistan except the most urban areas. It is frequently poured from sheepskin containers carried by shepherds. I suspect an alcoholic content in dogh since it makes you sleepy so fast it knocks a guest out in 5 minutes regardless of nationality or previous exposure to dogh. Its always pronounced dogh in central afghanistan and Balochistan and never doogh. I suspect this is an Iranian pronunciation.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.197.228.3 (talk) 10:06, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  this drink is still commonly drunk among the historical urban Persians (Tajiks) and not just the rural areas. Personally, I grew up on this drink and my family have been urbanites for several generations. This is a national drink there as well and this articles fails to even mention it (and many other articles make it appear that the people within modern Afghanistan have little (or at least less than accepted historical reality) connections toward with the people of present-day Iran, which is at best a POV and worse more akin to  propaganda as it reimagines historical realities among these historical Persian populations. We can do better, team. Thanks and kind regards. Jamaas9 (talk) 22:05, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dogh is not carbonated in Afghanistan 

message: :dough (persian) or ayran (turkish) can be carbonated, this is done either naturally or by adding CO2 like other beverages.
:I am from Tabriz and I am completely familiar with both Turkish and Persian languages.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Adelzadeh (talk • contribs) 22:17, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dough is the same as ayran 

message: dogh is a very popular drink in afghanistan too, and I can't understand why it's not mentioned. 
also, in afghanistan it can be carbonated, but usually is not, and sometimes its served with cucumber inside.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.106.244.201 (talk) 09:44, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  can confirm that “Afghan” doogh is  usually made with chopped cucumber,mint (dried or fresh depending on availability but i only do dried as that's what my family taught me) and watered down yogurt with ice. There should be some mention of this as it relates to ancient Persia (Greater Iran) and arguably 70%+ Afghans are ethnic Iranians. —Jamaas9 (talk) 22:35, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  doogh in afghanistan 

message: Doogh is and is not carbonated. It depends. As sold in the streets of Iran, they are carbonated. Like Doogh of Abali. But if you step into a good classy restaurant in Iran, or anywhere else, doogh is not carbonated and is homemade.
In homes, people often make and drink the homemade uncarbonated version, unless they buy it from the grocery shop or something.
This also applies to outside Iran. Here in Texas, they sell the carbonated version in "Ali Baba's Mediterranean food store" (the biggest Iranian food store in town). But if you go to "Shiraz Persian Cuisine" restaurant, youll be served the uncarbonated version.--Zereshk 01:14, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Uncarbonated doogh is okay but once carbonated it becomes a truly amazing beverage and quite unique. Carbonated doogh makes the world a better place. Wow! No really. Wow! -- Derek Ross | Talk 06:51, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Carbonated?

message: isn't the image in the article with the caption "local doogh of isfahan" picturing "ash-e doogh/mast". it can't be doogh.--Xashaiar (talk) 02:09, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: also the image with the caption "doogh with garlic" is showing some kind of dalal mast. that is the image is, though a relative of doogh, showing yogurt with garlic. it can not be doogh.--Xashaiar (talk) 22:30, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the image labelled "Doogh with Garlic" is actually a factory-made "Yoghurt with Shallot [Mâst-Musir]", so perhaps better be presented under Yoghurt.--Bee (talk) 18:33, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Local doogh of Isfahan? 

message: What about we merge it in Ayran? As it is pointed above, the doogh CAN be carbonated or not, sa can the Ayran. They really ARE the same thing. 
OR we do something else: We specify under this article the carbonated version, and under Ayran the non carbonated one.
Cheers,
--Emir Ali Enç (talk) 00:39, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, it should be merge. What is all this nonsense about wording, Doogh = Ayran = Tan. They are all the same product, regardless of origin or way of preparation. It is like saying bolognese sauce is not ragu. --Vitilsky (talk) 17:57, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

text: I disagree. Doogh is Persian but Ayran is Turkish. While these drinks may be similar or perhaps even identical, there doesn't seem to be any reason to merge them especially if this gives preference to the name the drink has in a specific region. Is there a generic term for this type of minted yogurt beverage? Fleetham (talk) 02:00, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

text: i agree with merging all are the same product with different names .like water su and eau ,water is water doesnt matter what you call it!!!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.200.96.190 (talk) 15:21, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

text: I agree. The fact that these drinks come from different regions is not sufficient for keeping two separate articles, especially in the case when these are neighbouring regions, such that one can be sure that these drinks have a common historical origin. As an example, Quark (dairy product) describes different quark versions from Slavic and German-speaking countries. --Off-shell (talk) 12:29, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed merge

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: It's pretty obvious that Ayran is the far more common name than Doogh. The merge should have been to Ayran instead of to this article. Gune (talk) 01:07, 21 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: the name “Aryan” implies an Iranian/Aryan origin and that’s why the name Doogh is valid vs more modern terminology that it is derived from such as Aryan. The Iranian people have been sedentary for a significant portion of ancient history and that’s why we accept the Iranian origin from my personal understanding. Could you provide a reliable source stating otherwise? If not, doesn’t make complete sense to use Aryan just bc it is more common as readers should understand the supposed origin of drinks, which in this case, looks like Greater Iran. Thanks and kind regards
Jamaas9 (talk) 22:48, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  if this drink is formerly a Turkic invention, then do think the title change is something we can figure out by consensus at least imho. Sorry for the previous statement, and let me know if anyone feels similarly to the first talk post. Thank you and kind regards. Jamaas9 (talk) 00:33, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Ayran

message: Seemingly the same thing. We should either merge these, or create separate articles for the two remaining most popular types of the drink (Doogh and Tan). Personally, I think we should do the latter, as the drinks are quite different from one another. Openlydialectic (talk) 13:18, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Er, they are the same thing, with just different names, like Pacha/Khash and other 'ethnic' foods and drinks, despite the subtle difference in flavours and ingredients. We have Coca Cola Blue - Should articles for those too? Of course not. --User:Meganesia (talk)  05:45, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge with Ayran 

message: Doogh can be carbonated or non-carbonated. This beverage is also classified as being part of multiple cuisines such as Iranian. --207.233.110.67 (talk) 19:03, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  classification of beverage 

message: It seems the consensus to merge the articles Ayran and Doogh is at least a few years old, and the result to merge it under the name Doogh is nowhere to be seen.
A quick Google search gives about 7,840,000 hits for "Ayran", while "Doogh" only gives 267,000. A blatantly clear case per Wikipedia:Article titles.
The number of Wikilinks of each article to their corresponding language versions also is in clear favor of Ayran. Someone just arbitrarily moved Ayran to Doogh at some point (without consensus), while it should be clearly the other way round. If there is no well-founded objection I will move the content of Doogh to Ayran. Kind regards. Akocsg (talk) 01:14, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: My involvement was merely procedural - a duplicate article was made and that shouldn't be. Doing a little digging it looks like this provides some trail of the backstory here. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 01:32, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

text: Google hits are not a decider for article titles—arguments need to be based on WP:Article titles and should address issues raised in previous discussions. The procedures for resolving disagreements over a title are at WP:Requested moves. That is separate from the fact that content forks are unacceptable, as are copyright violations (unattributed copy/paste from one article into another). If the issue is not quite right for a requested move discussion, an RfC will be required with a brief and neutral question. Johnuniq (talk) 02:08, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  Here a consensus was reached to merge it under Ayran, and not the other way around. Akocsg (talk) 04:57, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

text: Comparing Google hits while using only the Latin script search is quite dishonest; searching "Ayran" brings up Turkish and English language results, while searching "Doogh" only brings up English language results (and with an inconsistent spelling too, in Latin form it can be spelled "dugh" or "dough" as well). Typing دوغ into Google brings an additional 6.26 million hits; meaning its quite comparable with the hits for Ayran. -- Qahramani44 (talk) 02:12, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

text: Again, I'm here purely because of a technicality.  An attempted move/merge was done badly and reverted (by several editors, including me).  I have no opinion (and less knowledge) about the content.  The history of these articles is a minefield, and I would caution any editor against cherry-picking particular discussions, decisions, or edits as being the "one and only truth".  There was a formal merge discussion in 2013, as mentioned, but it was never implemented.  In March 2016, another abortive attempt to merge.  In December 2016, there was another attempted merge and a mini edit-war, with some discussion.  In March 2018, it was redirected to Doogh "after merge", and reinstated in April 2018.  Then, in January 2019, Aryan was redirected here on the premise of "100% fork, after March 2018 merge".  Then in May, the current edit warring began.  I wouldn't want to take any decisions on the basis of what went before.  Lithopsian (talk) 13:26, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Undiscussed merging under Doogh 

message: Please explain here how the addition of 12 pictures of Ayran in this article is relevant. Thanks.---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 13:25, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I barely understood a word of this. What is your point? I feel like there's too much unnecessary stuff in your text. --HistoryofIran (talk) 16:29, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

text: Same goes for me, don't get what the point of this WP:TLDR speech is exactly. Also, i suggest you read WP:INDENT and desist from personal attacks based on the nationality or ethnicity of fellow wikipedians you are working with.---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 18:17, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

text: Well, you need to calm down and stay cool. Let me be clear, nobody cares about your Persian dudes, this is an encyclopedia and we need to collaborate, this means that we should not attack other users by playing an ethnic card and we should not say they are playing a sneaky and stupid role either. I have no problem with adding one picture or two of Ayran to this article, but you need to get that this article is about an Iranian drink, and there is already a whole section about "Turkish national status", therefore we should not bombard this article with Ayran pictures. I hope that you can understand my concerns, that are not based on ethnic bias but with the quality and neutrality of this article. Best.---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 18:49, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

text: If you keep playing an ethnic card in this thread you will find yourself blocked, your above sentence "most likely you hate Turks" is an irrelevant battleground comment. Again, my actions are not driven by any ethnic bias but by my concerns to protect the quality of this encyclopedia, if you make one more personal attack, i will have no other choice but to request administrator intervention. As i said above, i have no problem with adding one or two pictures of ayran to the article, please feel free to proceed. The tan picture is maybe misplaced, you can move it elsewhere in the article if you want (in my humble opinion, moving it to the "variations" section sounds good). Also, as an answer to your question about creating a separate article for ayran, i would say that you can see in the above sections that this has already been discussed, since ayran, tan and lassi are nothing else than variations of doogh, the current article is enough to deal with all these beverages. best.---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 16:26, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent addition of 12 pictures of Ayran 

message: I noticed   has undone my edit regarding Ancient Persia meaning ancient Iran. I would like to know on what basis ancient Persia means modern-day Iran and not ancient Iran? Is Roman Empire's heritage also exclusively Italian? Don't Spain, Romania or France 
have anything to do with ancient Rome? 
If a = b, then ax = bx. This isn't even a controversial thing. It's logic. Persia is Iran, therefore ancient Persia is ancient Iran. It's common knowledge that Ancient Persia was at least twice the size of modern Persia. Can one say that Kurds in the current geography of Iran drank ayran 1500 years ago but those that are now in Iraq or Turkey didn't? If in an imaginary situation the three Khorasan provinces in modern-day Iran join Afghanistan, will they be striped off of their ayran drinking past in ancient times?  TerranBoy (talk) 17:09, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ancient Persia: Modern-Day Iran or Ancient Iran 

message: The discussion in 2020 was about moving the article from a far less common name. That decision did not preclude writing a new culture-specific article. We have plenty of articles about regional varieties of basically the same food, see my favorite dish: List of pancakes :-).- Altenmann >talk 23:18, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Redirect? 

message: @Altenmann, there hasn’t been any discussion on splitting/merging in the last 4 years, so I wonder how  consensus may be assumed to have changed to the exact contrary without any discussions. Per WP:CONSENSUS, which you have linked,  Aintabli (talk) 23:26, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Recent split and consensus