Talk:Abbasid Caliphate

message: I have been editing for a couple of hours caliphate-related articles. I stumbled on the timeline of the end of the Abbasid empire at the hands of the Mongol horde. With a context of Wikipedia and editors' efforts to advance knowledge for humanity, it was  horrifying, incredibly saddening, and even painful reading how the accumulated knowledge and prized culture of centuries was so brutally destroyed. How were people and intellectuals mercilessly murdered. It really touched deep in my soul. I have to point out that coincidentally or work of the Fates, February 2023 marks 765 years of that utterly despicable and horrifying event. May all those innocent victims rest in peace. In memoriam. Thinker78 (talk) 00:49, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Horrifying

message: This recent and reasonable edit brings up a longstanding issue in the infobox, I think: what exactly is this article considering as a "successor"? Is it 1) the states that took over the territory the caliphate controlled? Or 2) the dynasty that took over the title of "caliph"?
The first option seems to be the more usual understanding of this parameter across Wikipedia articles, in which case the Ottoman empire came long after the political territory of the Abbasids had been taken over by others by 1258, so it's hardly relevant. If it's the second option, then the only successor would be the Ottoman dynasty/Ottoman Caliphate and nothing else. Mixing both, as seems to be the case currently, frankly just looks like a semi-arbitrary list of states from different periods and regions that I doubt is very useful to readers. R Prazeres (talk) 04:12, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, there needs to be some sort of distinction between spiritual and political succession, or, if that is not possible, to just go with the usual, territorial take. Iskandar323 (talk) 05:50, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

text: Belated follow up: after seeing more partially confusing edits to it just recently, I'm revising the list to include only the states that took over political control of the caliphate's territories. I've removed those that did not control from the Abbasids directly (e.g. the Fatimids took over North Africa and Egypt from the Abbasids or their vassals, whereas the Ayyubids were nominal Abbasid vassals who took over what was mostly under Fatimid (& Crusader) control before them, the Mamluks were their successors, etc). Some smaller states might be missing from the list (e.g. Hamdanids?), but at some point all of this should probably be explained in more detail in the article itself so that it's not merely up to passing editor's discretion. R Prazeres (talk) 17:24, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: PS: Also the Emirate of Córdoba and the Idrisids (not to mention the Rustamids) were established in territories that were already out of effective caliphal control before the end of the Umayyad period. See this talk page explanation for the Idrisids, among others. R Prazeres (talk) 17:27, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Which "successors"? 

message: Initially I was going to tag the "Separatist dynasties and their successors" section as unsourced, but on second thought I don't think we should keep this section. I went bold and removed it (). Aside from being unsourced, it also contains various errors, includes some recent nationalist POV insertions, and the framing as "separatist" dynasties is dubious since many were part of the Abbasid Caliphate or, as the section mentions, nominally acknowledged their authority. More fundamentally: listing every dynasty in the history of every region of the Islamic world is not reasonably within the scope of this article and we have plenty of articles that cover the full history of each region. The trouble it would take to add sources to verify all the dates and names, plus sorting out inconsistences and arbitrary choices over what is included where, does not reasonably seem worth it.
It would make more sense to simply revise and expand the preceding "Decline" section, which already summarizes some of the same information, to cover the immediate successor states and dynasties that emerged in the 9th-10th centuries. It would probably be better to also merge that section with the History section, with which it already overlaps and which also needs some work. R Prazeres (talk) 17:26, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello @R Prazeres dunno if it's fitting to post this here, but according to those sources:  (p 132), Abassid caliph Al ma'mun adopted the green flag when he declated the shiite imam Ali al-Rida as his heir. Nourerrahmane (talk) 16:19, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Separatist dynasties" and "Decline" sections 

message: — Assignment last updated by Bumblebeatrice (talk) 19:09, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: Islamic Arts of the Book

message: Why didn't this encyclopedia highlight the incident of Arabic terror in "Greater Persia"?
Baghdad was the fear of the whole medieval world!
09:40, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Arabic terror in "Greater Persia"