Talk:Desert tortoise

message: I know there's no consensus yet on how, exactly, common names should be classified. But I figured that, instead of a mish-mash of double lowercase, partial uppercase, and double uppercase names, we should keep internal consistency: so I made everything lowercase as that's my personal preference. --Xanzzibar 19:51, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Capitalization

message: Conservation status of the desert tortoise is both enormously controversial and also economically critical. Mohave populations of the desert tortoise were listed as Threatened by the US Fish and Wildlife Service in 1990 based on population estimates showing great declines. At the time of this listing, with hundreds of thousands alive, it was the most numerous land animal ever proposed for this status by an order of magnitude. Only the delta smelt (a California fish species) was listed with higher numbers.
It is clear that desert tortoises in many areas have declined. it is also clear that ravens (attracted by human trash and preying on small tortoises), land conversion and subdivisions, military activities, off-road driving, and disease (possibly worsened by human transport) all cause harm to tortoises. It is also clear that large, similar (to humans) appearing desert areas may have strikingly different numbers of tortoises and that some areas have much higher populations than others.  Although it is easy to propose "death by a thousand cuts" and the added negative effects of climate change... The ultimate question of what is causing tortoises to decline is unanswered. In particular, the question of whether wholly protected areas (such as National Parks) are immune to these declines has not been adequately studied. The latter point could help discern whether declines were due to direct human actions or activities that don't stop at boundaries.
One of the reasons great controversy has always surrounded the desert tortoise status is because there are still no currently existing, reliable methods for estimating their numbers. Because these animals are cryptic (living in deep burrows they excavate in the soil) and because most areas contain very sparse populations  (i.e., the natural density is low) the normal methods used in mark/recapture studies may be ineffective and low numbers of captures may cause failure of the mathematical models normally used for population estimation. Various "recovery plans" for the desert tortoise have been published each proposing some different population sampling method. So far, all such proposed methods have mathematical or logistical failings rendering their results unreliable or actually wrong.
There are relatively few published, peer-reviewed, scientific papers on how to count desert tortoises and to arrive at reasonable estimates. These papers need to be summarized herein or at least referenced in some way. At the very least, existence of this subject needs inclusion on the desert tortoise page.24.113.26.115 07:22, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Most important information is so far lacking on this page 

message: Having owned a tortoise from August '85 to July '09, these animals make fun pets in the summer. Of course, I'm not going to play with a tortoise in the winter. My tortoise now lives at the Red Rock NAC visitors' center. His name's Mikey. Sierraoffline444 (talk) 21:24, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Right. Do you have a neutral source, or another source? 2600:8801:0:2B10:34FF:D6C0:2C43:267C (talk) 03:47, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good pets. 

message: This page is largely constructed using Biased information. Despite the wealth of information available on this species only a narrow group of references is used. Needs a much broader base from which to draw, which would bring more accuracy to many of the sections.SPKronos (talk) 22:04, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Basically I agree. It's a C-class article and requires substantial work to be decent. Typically good article require 50+ references, so this article is still in it's infancy. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 22:39, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Biased Information

message: This is going to require a lot of work. 
http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=2842&from=rss_home
http://smithsonianscience.org/2011/06/new-study-reveals-desert-tortoise-is-actually-two-distinct-species/  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.91.17.67 (talk) 20:58, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gopherus morafka (Sonoran Desert Tortoise) recognized as separate species

message: It's dreadful as is, and ought to be two totally separate articles, although there can also be one shorter article about just the genus Gopherus. As the article stands, the differences between the two species remain very unclear. Two much is muddled together.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:32C7:8C00:E80B:257B:38DE:4BD9 (talk) 19:01, 11 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Isn't the bulk of the material the same for both species? There may not be enough distinct information for two separate articles (or three, counting the parent Gopherus article). —BarrelProof (talk) 22:47, 11 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: This article needs to be broken up into two, for the two separate species

message: Desert tortoise do NOT ever weigh what is listed here (20-50lbs).
 I dont have a good source to show the average weight but this site for instance shows it is 8-15lbs: http://www.desertusa.com/reptiles/desert-tortoise.html  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.224.149.169 (talk) 07:31, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Weight is wrong