Talk:Pro-life activism

message: I think that:
# there is good reason for this article to exist
# it needs to indicate the popularity/scarcity of each tactic and their contraversal natures, both within and outside the Pro-Life movement.
--   NERD42    EMAIL  TALK  H2G2  UNCYC  NEWS  18:02, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

message: The "Anti-abortion movement" is a subset of "Pro-life activism", not the other way around, so the proposed merger of "Pro-life activism" to "Anti-abortion movement" would have it backwards, and result in relevant deleted content. The article name of "Pro-life activism" is the more encompassing term, and should therefore must be a name that survives, or you will have eliminated an entire legitimate topic, not just merged two similar ones. pat8722 20:32, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Merge.  This article predominantly describes methods utilized by anti-abortion advocates.  It does not discuss other concerns of 'pro-life' individuals.  I would suggest that either the article discuss more activism on behalf of a 'pro-life ethic' such as the abolishment of the death penalty, measures fighting poverty, or advocacy for healthcare rights unconcerned with abortion.  As is, this article appears to be merely anti-abortion, and should thus be merged. Kimathi 09:45, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Thank you for your response.  While I gave examples of how to expand what I would call pro-life activism, it was my attempt to illustrate that this pro-life activism page is essentially the same as the "anti-abortion movement" article.  As is, this article could easily be merged with the latter. If needed, the anti-abortion article could mention the term, pro-life activism, briefly describing your view of it as both anti-abortion and euthanasia. Just as the Associated Press has recognized the term "pro-life movement" as political framing so must an encyclopedia. I continue to support the merge of the two articles.  Kimathi 06:44, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Although I continue to disagree, I have edited the article to describe what you intend - anti-abortion activites as a subset of pro-life activism.  The definition you assert (without sources) is the 'widely accepted and commonly used name' would be rejected in numerous circles, including those subscribing to Catholic teachings (differences between views held on capital punishment at the very least) and the philosophy of a consistent life ethic (capital punishment along with many other issues). Since there are no other supporting activities for "pro-life activism," I would encourage you to either add to this article (including sources) or support a merge.  Kimathi 04:15, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Thank you for thoroughness.  While I don't really feel like reading your links, I refuse to argue about something we essentially agree upon.  You have said that the 'anti-abortion movement' article should be merged into the 'pro-life activism' page.  Yet when I changed the page to reflect this, you reverted my entire efforts. I am encouraging you to expand the page to make "pro-life activism" include more than just anti-abortion tactics (I assume we agree that the page only discusses methods promoting anti-abortion).  As is, this page could easily be merged into the "anti-abortion movement" article without losing any substance. Or you could work to improve the article and I would support the merge in the other direction.  Kimathi 10:44, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Move/Merge proposal number 1

message: I have removed the the term "groups" as having setting clinics on fire or killing abortionists, as I have seen references only to individuals acting on their own.  I am not an expert on the topic.  A single newspaper reference would be enough to insert the word "groups", which I would think would be readily available if you want to re-add the word the "groups". pat8722 14:00, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  abortion clinic bombings 

message: First of all, I was bold and moved this article to pro-life tactics, however pat8722 has reverted this move. This page is not about pro-life activism. It is a list of different tactics that some pro-lifers use. I do not know if this actually warrants its own article. I, personally, would like to see the content merged into the main pro-life article. However, if other editors feel that the list of tactics is long enough and important enough to make its own article, I would suggest moving the page to pro-life tactics to more accurately reflect what this article is current covering. Look where these terms redirect environmental activism and animal rights activism.--Andrew c 21:57, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Alienus 22:06, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

text: I understood the ongoing debate from 2 months ago before I moved the article. Right now there is a proposal to merge anti-abortion movement with pro-life. Until that issue is resolved, I am not sure if we can act on where to merge this article. So for the time being, I was bold and decided to move this article to a title that more accurately represented its content. I would still move to rename this article and then perhaps merge this article with a larger topic further down the road. Anyway, what is the difference between "pro-life" and "pro-life movement" and "pro-life activism" (assuming we are getting rid of the anti-abortion labeled articles).--Andrew c 23:27, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

text: I am sorry that tactics does not connate the same to me that it does to you. I clearly do not see it as a loaded term, but I will compromise. What about the word "methods"? I fail to see how a list of methods/tactics is synonymous with "activism". Do you not agree that the title of this article should reflect its content until the day that someone has the time to merge this article? Finally, I'll ask again, what is the difference between "pro-life" and "pro-life movement"? I would also disagree that "pro-life movement" is the name used by all the media. Do a news.google search for "pro-life movement" vs. "anti-abortion movement". It's close, 138 vs. 143. Finally, just to stir the pot. I don't think "anti-abortion movement" is problematic because of the name. If the purpose of the article is to focus on the anti-abortion part of the greater pro-life issue (that also includes anti-euthanasia and anti-death penalty), or if the purpose is to cover not only pro-lifers who are against abortion, but other people who do not identify as pro-life, but are also against abortion. That said, I do not feel that this specific issue warrants its own article. There is the abortion debate article where both sides are presented. Then there are individual articles for pro-choice and pro-life.--Andrew c 03:33, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Why do you keep saying I seem to have the time to do it? Why don't YOU do it yourself :P And why do you keep ignoring my question what is the difference between "pro-life" and "pro-life movement" because I see no reason for both articles to exist. And do any search of the Associated Press. They specifically use the term "anti-abortion". (and don't get me wrong, I do not want there to be an anti-abortion movement article unless other editors feel that focusing on that one issue warrants its own article more than having sections on anti-abortion, anti-euthanasia, anti-death pentalty, within the bigger pro-life article).--Andrew c 22:08, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  move/merge proposal number 2

message: I really dont understand why "Violence as a form of activism" is here. Violence isn't activism, it is terrorism (or insurgency, and what not). Perhaps anti-abortion violence shoudl have it's ownn page (with information on different bombings, shootings, or whatever), or be moved to another page.
Staggering234
:Go to activism. Violence (and yes, terrorism) is covered by both. You also might want to go to Anti-abortion violence as well. I think having a minor paragraph about these incedents, and redirecting to the main article is the best course of action. Removing this information would seem to be white-washing pro-life activism, because there is nothing in the word "activism" itself that connotes peacful, non-violence etc.--Andrew c 20:13, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And I think that this article is a fork from either anti-abortion movement or pro-life in general, which is why there is a merge tag on this page. I thought we were getting progress when it was merged, but then pat protested and we are still where we were months ago. (and also, this article isn't about "activism" per se, it is more about methods or tactics). --Andrew c 21:45, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Seperating Violence from an activism page 

message: There are a lot of weasel words in this article. Some vs. many, etc. I tagged the article to make up for some commentary that wasx added to make a WP:POINT that I removed. Look at the diff for a couple examples--Andrew c 02:30, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, perfectly agreed but you seem to be bull dozing my edits. The article as I found it, and still find in certain places, seems very biased and I wanted to fix it. That is what I am trying to do...you can help but please don't rvt me every five seconds. Chooserr 02:31, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  weasel