Talk:Cheesesteak/Archive 1

message: Alkivar asked me about the merge. My reply:
The Cheesesteak article with the merge is a convenient size for any browser and connection speed. Having all the information on a single page is a convenience. In the case of two competitors it's worthwhile to read the two related paragraphs at a glance. 
In doing the merge I found that approximately 1/3 of the material in the separate articles was redundant and repetitive. 
People seeking information on a specific restaurant will find it via the redirects. Basically what we now have is like an article in a traditional encyclopedia: one article that covers an integral topic with several index entries (redirects) to enable subtopics to be found directly. 
I can see absolutely no advantage to splitting this article out into separate articles. Dpbsmith (talk) 11:33, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The recent merge 

message: Moving this here from the bottom of the article. I didn't write it. — mendel ☎ 17:17, August 16, 2005 (UTC)
:Tony Luke's outdoor sandwich shop on Oregon Avenue is a uniquely Philly experience.  Cops and cabbies, dock workers and school marms, and lawyers in pin stripe suits mulling over their legal briefs queue up along the sidewalk, prepared to wait half a lunch hour for such tasty fare.  Don't forget to try the "green sandwich", a robust combination of broccoli rabe (bitter broccoli) sauteed with carmelized onions, enraged by red pepper flakes (pepperoncini), and crowned with a slice of imported sharp provolone.  This taste-bud popping melange is wrapped in an crisp Italian roll (such as only to be found in Philadelphia).  Now that's a sandwich worth writing home about.  Just ask my sister Veronica.
Is Veronica available?  More seriously, there seems to be a lot of commentary like this inserted into this article rather regularly; maybe it's not such a good idea to have information on individual restaurants included? siafu 17:26, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comments moved from article 

message: I take no position on the great controversy over "who put the cheese in the cheesesteak." But I am getting very tired of editors making changes to this page on their own personal authority and citing no sources, particularly with regard to competing claims of rival establishments. 
An anon snipped this, giving no reason:
:The sidewalk, roof, and tables around Geno's are decorated with hundreds of autographed and framed photos and memorabilia of celebrities who have patronized the venue. Since Geno's is opened 24 hours a day, the eating area on the adjacent sidewalk never needs to be locked up, and is open to the air.
These seem like perfectly reasonable things to say. If true, not outrageously promotional. Is Geno's rival open 24 hours? If not, that's a legitimately notable fact about Geno's.
This was also snipped:
:Vento claims to have come up with the idea of adding cheese to the mix.
And the sentence "However that is not true..." was added to this paragraph.
:Olivieri's initial creation may simply have been a steak sandwich, since the innovation of adding cheese, now standard, is claimed by rival Geno's Steaks. However that is not true. Pat's did in fact always include cheese. Vento has since admitted he made up that story.
Very interesting if properly referenced. But I'd like to know where and when Vento made that admission.
I'm very open to all this stuff being in the article. I don't live in Philadelphia and I'm not a Pat's or Geno's partisan. But we can just _say_ stuff in the article like this. (Yes, I know, the article already does have badly-sourced statements in it. We need to fix them.)
You can cite anything; a local newspaper article. Heck, you can cite what it says on a Pat's or Geno's menu, if those menus say anything. But you have to cite something. 
For the time being I'm reverting these changes and indicating simply that the issue is disputed.
Dpbsmith (talk) 12:34, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Let's [[Wikipedia:Cite sources|cite sources]]

message: Shouldn't some mention be made of the media coverage of US presidential candidate John Kerry's comments on the cheesesteak (his perceptions of the appropriate cheese to be used)? Certainly has a bit of historical/political relevance, enough to mention here --Dpr 08:21, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: During a campaign stop in Philadelphia on August 11, 2003, Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry requested a cheesesteak with Swiss cheese at Pat's Steaks (Cheesesteak bites Kerry). In political terms, this nontraditional choice was a serious miscalculation, as it could help reinforce images of Kerry as effete, aloof, and out of touch with the average American. The owner of Pat's Steaks convinced Kerry to change his order, but the incident nevertheless earned Kerry some ridicule in the press.
The feeling was that the article was about cheesesteaks, not politics. Nobody seemed to object at the time. The text above probably spends too much time explaining the event; it gives me the impression that the editor was trying to say something about Kerry, not something about cheesesteak.
I don't have very strong feelings one way or the other. I'm inclined to think that if the incident was not important enough to mention in John Kerry presidential campaign, 2004, which it isn't, it's not important enough to mention here. If it had been mentioned in John Kerry presidential campaign, 2004 it could have been mentioned briefly here and linked. If it's going to be mentioned at all, I think it could be mentioned briefly, e.g. "During the 2004 presidential campaign, Kerry subjected himself to ridicule by ordering a cheesesteak with Swiss cheese" together with a suitable source citation. Dpbsmith (talk) 18:13, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think I initially added mention of Kerry since it was the most credable source I knew of that Cheez Whiz was the chease product of choise for the conesseur. Since the claim seemed dubious, I thought (and still think) the mention of Kerry is appropriate in that it seems pretty unequivecable, despite the fact that the original Cheesesteak didn't have Whiz since it hadn't yet been invented. —BenFrantzDale 00:34, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Everyone's logic is pretty sound, and it doesn't seem like a momentously important fact, but I'm going to add one or two sentences. If everyone really disagrees, take it back out. --Dpr 05:11, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Is your link correct? I created an account at philly.com but when I click on http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/local/6528601.htm I get "the requested article was not found." I wanted to see the press's take on it. I'd be tempted to say that he "ill-advisedly" ordered it with Swiss cheese. The question I have is, what even put the idea of Swiss cheese into his head? I have to see what choices are offered for "steak bombs" locally (Boston area). And, what's so effete about Swiss cheese? I thought American and Swiss were the two default cheese options. It's not as if he'd ordered Brie... Dpbsmith (talk) 14:29, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

text: Archive.org's wayback machine to the rescue.... http://web.archive.org/web/20041010085705/http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/local/6528601.htm Dpbsmith (talk) 14:35, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

text: Dpbsmith--thanks for your assistance. Sorry about the link, I just cut and pasted what had been there. I hope you don't mind my changes--I'm just trying to make it a little less colloquial...I'm sure you didn't mean it to be POV but you never know what people will say--better to err on the side of caution. Is Swiss so effete? Well, everything is relative, my friend...the residents of the City of Brotherly love must certainly think it to be so...who knows...it's all about context. Thanks again --01:44, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Your edit is fine with me. The important thing is that the emphasis should be "What cheeses are proper, as illustrated by the Kerry incident" rather than "How unmanly Kerry is, as illustrated by the cheesesteak incident." Cheers! Dpbsmith (talk) 12:30, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: John Kerry

message: Is there anything mentioned about how late both Pats and Genos are open? I personally dont know their hours, but I have gone various times at two or three in the morning and there has literally been a 45 minute wait. It is definitly something worth mentioning possibly in the "Famous Philadelphia cheesesteak eateries" section right before the Pats section. --Msc44 00:19, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Late Night Cheesesteaks

message: Not being familiar with Philadelphia, I can't judge. I believe Pat's Steaks and Geno's Steaks have a special superstar (or tourist-trap) status to them. 
Would an unbiassed Philadelphian observer naturally mention Jim's Steaks, Steve's Prince of Steaks, and Tony Luke's as being the obvious next runners-up? Or are these just good cheesesteak places that happen to be in Wikipedia through the personal efforts of individual devotees?
Due Jim's Steaks/Steve's Prince of Steaks/Tony Luke's have a generally-recognized special status that justifies their inclusion in the article? Opinions for now, there's no reason for haste in taking any action at all on these. Dpbsmith (talk) 20:17, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with looper. Though the three don’t have the same level of notoriety as their Passyunk Ave cousins, their stature and importance in the "Cheesesteak Industry" in Philly is just as prominent. --Boothy443 |  trácht ar 05:28, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK. Dpbsmith (talk) 14:34, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jim's Steaks/Steve's Prince of Steaks/Tony Luke's 

message: What are the sources for the comparison table, as required by the verifiability policy ("we only publish material that is verifiable with reference to reliable, published sources")?
I hate to remove this and will leave it up while we discuss it, but isn't this original research? Dpbsmith (talk) 10:55, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comparison table 

message: change ((pepper|sweet and hot peppers)) to ((Capsicum|sweet and hot peppers)) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:541:4500:1760:C3D:25F3:51EC:43C (talk) 16:34, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: . –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 17:07, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Pepper

message: Most people from Philadelphia would agree that the top picture for the cheesesteak, regardless of where the sandwhich was created, does not do the sandwich full justice. Consider a picture similar to the one linked below where the cheese was uniformly distributed, and an older tradition of American or provolone cheese was used.
    https://www.recipegirl.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Philly-Cheese-Steak-3.jpg
Sources:
https://www.phillymag.com/foobooz/2018/09/22/cheesesteak-history/
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/far-from-home-these-regional-comfort-foods-can-be-shipped-to-your-door-180974763/ 2601:46:4101:7B70:F907:29D1:2EC:5252 (talk) 20:13, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: Please make your request for a new image to be uploaded to Files For Upload.  Once the file has been properly uploaded, feel free to reactivate this request to have the new image used. Please note that any image must meet Wikipedia's image use policy, particularly where copyright is concerned. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 20:18, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 19 November 2020 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion