Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cricket/Archive 21

message: Can someone please take a look at the comments at Talk:Tom Wills Tintin (talk) 10:30, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Tom Wills]] 

message: There is a bit of a hiatus on the Quiz - neither the person who gave the right answer to the last question (Dingbatdan) nor the person who set the question (Deville) is around to set a new question.  The previous setter was QazPlm, if he is around.  
Anyway, this is by way of a gentle reminder to other editors that the Quiz exists :)-- ALoan (Talk) 10:14, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[WP:CRIQ]]

message: I just came across the article 15-104, which appears to be a cricket article with a nonsense title. I'm at a loss as to what to do with it, can someone take a look? Oldelpaso 10:53, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Title clearly refers to Hedley Verity's astonishing figures. I suggest moving the nice scorecards to Verity's article and deleting the 15-104 entry. --Dweller 10:56, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

text: The scorecards should be on Wikisource if anywhere -- although to be honest I think duplicating Cricinfo's archive of scorecards is a bit pointless. --ⁿɡ͡b Nick Boalch\talk 11:46, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Misplaced new article?

message: Hi folks, per this AfD, I moved the list to Wikipedia:WikiProject Cricket/List of cricketers. --Deathphoenix ʕ 21:47, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of cricketers moved here 

message: I just came across this today: Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team/Assessment. It's a tool that the Version 1 Editorial Team uses to assess the quality and importance of certain pages, and it appears that quite a few Wikiprojects are using it to do individual assessments on pages that relate to their topics. Would it be useful if we started to do something like this on the Cricket Wikiproject? --mdmanser 08:58, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes it would be. Since we've populated all the bios (are all grounds covered?), I think we should start to get more articles featured. We haven't done so for quite a while now. Wikiproject tropical Cyclone, and the Indian wikiprojects are active in this regard. =Nichalp «Talk»= 09:10, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no idea what to do and how to start the automated bot process for this thing though. I got some inspiration from the Australian Wikiproject and their assessment of articles at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Australia/Assessment, but how should we assess, as a project, the articles' quality, and more importantly, what constitutes an important article for cricket? --mdmanser 09:44, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, would it be a good idea to copy the Australian Wikiproject and create an assessment page for this Cricket project? --mdmanser 10:02, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Um - wasn't this already being done at Wikipedia:WikiProject Cricket/Version 1.0 articles?  The new version is much prettier, though - merge? -- ALoan (Talk) 17:32, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And easier to work with. So yeah, I'd say merge into the new system, it shouldn't take too long. Sam Vimes 18:59, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Wikipedia:Version 1.0

message: How do I do this? I'm thinking in particular about the Zimbabwe cricket team and the (wonderfully quirky) Ted Alletson articles. --Dweller 20:32, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, what the Zimbabwe article needs is a couple of key references, Wisdens or CricketArchive links or whatever (there's a couple of opinions, such as the fielding ability that should be fixed, and the listing of key events ought to be in prose.) Basically, I think what we should do on the review side is that someone who has had none or little involvement in the article should go in and read, then give a mark and some comments, and we could also start some kind of local peer review. Sam Vimes 21:04, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Great. Someone? Anyone? --Dweller 21:30, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Working up articles to higher status 

message: User:Crico has written a number of quite good articles at Cricket Rating Systems and individual rating systems articles which have been added to :category:Cricket awards and rankings (see Special:Contributions/Crico).  I've never heard of a number of these ranking systems and individually, the articles might be hard to justify keeping as they are not well known or used.  However, as a set they paint an interesting picture of the difficulty of ranking cricket teams and I would therefore argue for their retention if nominated for deletion.  User:Tychocat has made some useful suggestions at Talk:Herman's Cricket Ratings.  What do others think? -- I@n ≡ talk 16:10, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Rating systems

message: I've changed the England captaincy box over from Michael Vaughan's page to Andrew Flintoff's. See their talk pages for an expalnation of why, and tell me your opinion on the matter. Istartfires 16:53, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the note. It was me who reverted it before when it looked as if Flintoff was only going to be stand-in captain for one series, but I think it's the correct thing to do now. Stephen Turner (Talk) 17:41, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I disagree. There is a Test match starting tomorrow (13 July) and Vaughan certainly won't be captain, but nor will Flintoff. So calling him captain at this juncture seems premature, even plain wrong. We're not meant to be in the business of prediction: it could be that he will be confirmed as captain in just a couple of weeks' time, but it could also be that he won't be, through further injury, disinclination or because Strauss makes such a success of it. I think we should wait to see. Johnlp 20:54, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I merely think you should wait until he has actually taken up the post. As and when he does, the question won't arise. But until then, it's not a fact, and encyclopedias should deal in facts. It's only a matter of a couple of weeks, at most, and then it'll be known for certain one way or another. Johnlp 20:15, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

text: ... and now? Johnlp 22:55, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Captaincy Debate 

message: Can someone please handle the issue about George Ulyett's picture that is mentioned at User talk:Jguk Tintin (talk) 08:01, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Done (also at 08:01 UTC!). -- I@n ≡ talk 08:18, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks :) Tintin (talk) 09:54, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Untagged picture 

message: Hey all, since we have lists of cricket in film and television, cricket in fiction, and cricket poetry, does anyone think we could have a list of cricket songs? I'm inspired by the recent article in Cricinfo, and I'm sure there's more songs out there related to cricket (I can think of some). I'm not sure it's worth a separate article though - I'd want to include it as a section in cricket in film and television, which I'd rename cricket in popular media or something. -dmmaus 22:22, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There seem to be songs on the poetry page at the moment. Stephen Turner (Talk) 10:39, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Cricket songs

message: There's an entry in Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Cricket which has just been relisted as no-one has bothered to vote.  -- I@n 00:41, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Deletion sorting

message: List of Ashes series — here -- I@n 07:33, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It was promoted FYI. -- I@n 16:24, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Faetured list candidate

message: See the last line of Hat-trick#Cricket. Is there something called a batsman's hattrick ? Tintin (talk) 06:18, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've never heard of it, but I don't doubt that some of the more flamboyant commentators might call it that. -dmmaus 06:48, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've never heard of it either. I don't think it's a common phrase. It was only added on 7 July too. I've removed it for the moment — it can be put back if there's a good source (i.e., not a one-off). Stephen Turner (Talk) 07:57, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Batsman's hattrick 

message: *Hi, I was just wondering if any of you cricket followers would be interested in helping out in WP:RU. At the moment we need some more members and the cricket wikiproject is a real benchmark. We could sure use some of your guys experience. If you are interest, leave your name on our participants list. BTW, sorry we nicked your home page!--HamedogTalk|@ 14:14, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia: WikiProject Rugby Union 

message: User:Garrywarne has been adding an external link to this page which contains nothing but a copy-paste of the CI article. Stephen and myself have repeatedly removed it and warned him with little effect. Some admin needs to interfere if he adds it again. Tintin (talk) 04:18, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: He just did it again with a caption of "Please use this link!". Could some admin block him for a short time? Stephen Turner (Talk) 16:05, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Blocked for 24 hours. Sam Vimes | Address me 16:19, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spam in [[Archie Jackson]] 

message: See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion#Category:Cricket_lore and place your comments if you are interested in keeping this category. --BlackJack | talk page 21:36, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: or indeed deleting it. Stephen Turner (Talk) 21:55, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Category for Deletion 

message: [from Talk:Australian cricket team]
wouldn't the Cricket Australia logo be more appropriate to the top of this page?  Why is there just an Australian flag?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 220.237.166.156 (talk • contribs) 10:18, 3 August 2006  (UTC)
:That sounds like a reasonable suggestion. It would be nice to have a standard across all the test teams. At the moment, I see 8 flags, one one day shirt, and a photo of players. JPD (talk) 10:40, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The team logo or a team photo would be best: however, don't they tend to be copyright, so we would have to rely on fair use?  Is the flag the best free choice? -- ALoan (Talk) 10:52, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that's a fair idea that I've never thought about before. My first thoughts were that the Cricket Australia logo should be kept for use on the Cricket Australia page since it's a body that governs a number of different tournaments. But then I looked at the national football teams and it seems as though that the governing body logo is used. So really, I'm not entirely sure. I might give this one some more thought. --mdmanser 11:16, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The association logos are used to represent the teams in many contexts. The only issue I can see with them is that it probably would be fair use. I really don't like the team photo - the article is about the the team in general, not the 11 players from a specific match. JPD (talk) 12:07, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd say a team photo (if we can get one) is my 1st choice. Logo (eg. :Image:CricketAustraliaLogo.png) as 2nd choice and national flag as 3rd choice.   In the case of Australia, the baggy green cap was removed not that long ago by the image police because of fair use concerns.  That would be my other number 1.  Maybe someone can take a decent photo of a baggy green cap at one of the cricket museums, or perhaps even one of the retail ones you can buy from sports stores.  -- I@n 01:15, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Images in team infoboxes 

message: Just to let you all know, after a bit of a tussle, I've succeeded in getting the astonishing Mr Fry into the very short list of people accepted into the list of Polymaths.
He's currently one of about a dozen people accepted... and he's flying the flag for cricket!
--Dweller 10:31, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, :Category:Polymaths and subcategeories names a few more... -- ALoan (Talk) 11:11, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah... I added him to them, too! The main article has been the subject of a fierce pruning... a few officious editors are being very tough on what's "allowed" in! :-) --Dweller 11:15, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[CB Fry]] 

message: I'd like to propose a review of this article, which was at one time the only history article we had, but which now looks out of place as more specific histories have been and are being written.  Virtually everything in the article up to the 19th century exists elsewhere, but in greater detail and with a wider scope, so about half of the article is redundant.  Material about the later periods could be made into new articles.
The big problem with an article like this is that the scope is too wide and if we develop this instead of handling history by means of period, place and event articles, we are going to create something that is too huge to handle.
I haven't studied it in detail yet but my first thoughts are that it should be completely broken up and reduced to an introductory topic only.  The template box which lists linkages to the rest of the historical portfolio is very useful.  
Incidentally, a lot of the early history in the article is wrong both factually and by important omission, so it needs a substantial revision in any case!
Has anyone any ideas or suggestions?  --BlackJack | talk page 12:12, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with you. The best technique is probably to have a single-paragraph introduction to each period, with a link to the main article on that period, as described at WP:SS. See World War II for an excellent example of this style. Stephen Turner (Talk) 15:04, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

text: It needs to be compressed. Reduce the number of headings and précis the text. Get more sources, images and remove tables. Focus on key developments of cricket and more on cricket in modern times than in older times. =Nichalp «Talk»= 18:22, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

text: I've edited it so that it has a lead and looks a bit more like other Wikipedia articles. The text is very good though. I'm a bit uncertain about having a separate article of Zimbabwean cricket issues though. Sam Vimes | Address me 20:07, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article [[History of cricket]] 

message: I've just noticed that User:Burnside1980 (contribs) has been creating a lot of articles on obscure first-class cricketers. All first-class cricketers automatically meet our notability requirements, but I still find it strange. At the very least, the articles need serious cleaning up.
He's also been unlinking a lot of redlinks, which is definitely the wrong thing to do.
Stephen Turner (Talk) 17:28, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think he may be working through this list, which makes me wonder about the necessity of that at all. Perhaps we should replace it with a link to here which has a to-do list at the top. -- I@n 10:24, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

text: He has been blocked for 48 hours for for repeated copyvios.  Perhaps they need to be deleted rather than cleaned up? -- ALoan (Talk) 11:18, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Burnside1980 

message: Can anyone help out with improving this article on the former Surrey and Middlesex cricketer? --Dweller 12:34, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem with it is that, after the first paragraph, it has no encyclopedia-style facts in it at all, just unsubstantiated claims. The facts of his career aren't that difficult to find through cricinfo or cricketarchive; without those, we don't really have an article at all, and options might be simply to delete it or leave it as a substub. There are, of course, already 1350 or so substubs on players who did reach Test or ODI status still waiting to be tackled. Johnlp 13:46, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Mark Feltham]] 

message: There are some more pertinent comments on :Image:Cricket fielding positions2.svg on Talk:Fielding (cricket).  One day this image will be finished :) -- ALoan (Talk) 13:43, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Fielding image

message: That SMG named him Rohan Jaivishwa Gavaskar is a famous story but CI and CA has him as Rohan Sunil Gavaskar. What happened to the Jaivishwa part ? Tintin (talk) 05:35, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Rohan Gavaskar]] 

message: Is it just me or is there a need to keep an eye on this? There seems to be massive POV and also I wonder if he pasted them in from a profile off some website. Blnguyen | rant-line 02:03, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I reverted Mohanty and Chopra and put a tag on Ramesh. Seems someone with a Tendulkarophobia. Tintin (talk) 04:41, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edits to modern Indian bios by {{user2|King 2000uk}} 

message: Our West Indies specialist Deville has kindly offered himself up for scrutiny at Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Deville.  Participants may wish to pass by there and leave a mark. -- I@n 00:00, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Jguk was not an admin (but should have been IMO). -- I@n 04:37, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nor am I; I've struck through my entry there. Loganberry (Talk) 17:00, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Another WP:CRIC admin candidate

message: Hello. I've expanded and reffed these two bios in the last two days and put them up for nomination at Template talk:did you know for inclusion on the front page (if selected) WP:DYK. If selected, they will probably get featured in the next 3-4 days. Seeing as these two players are current players and also will be playing ODIs for India against Sri Lanka in the next few days, I'm guessing it will probably attract some vandalism or POV edits in response to upcoming results, so could people consider putting them on their watchlist for a while? Also to make sure that it doesn't get excluded from DYK because someone dropped by and put POV into it. Thanks, Blnguyen | rant-line 08:14, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Blnguyen, can you please check with someone whether Yograj acted in many Bollywood movies. Of the 8 movies listed in IMDB, only two are Hindi. Most of the movies listed in his article sound like Punjabi movies. Tintin (talk) 08:21, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: thanks again for picking up more of his errors. The other 6 movies were listed as Punjabi language, so I have fixed the opening sentence. Thanks again. Blnguyen | rant-line 08:28, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Yuvraj Singh]] and [[Shanthakumaran Sreesanth]] may be on DYK (front page) 

message: I was making some bios for some Bermudian ODI cricketers, and it occurred to me that an appropriate infobox template would be one which lists ODIs and first-class stats.  I was sure such a template existed and remembered once seeing it, but I can find no mention of it on the project page.  I was going to make one myself, but I figured that if it didn't exist by now, there might be a good reason not to make it; and if it existed already, that's a really good reason not to make it...:)  So, two questions: 1] does such a template exist?  2] If not, is there a good reason not to make one?  One good reason to make such a template is that most cricketers from (e.g.) Bermuda will likely not play in any Tests, so the standard infoboxes will always have many empty boxes. -- Deville (Talk) 09:02, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Discussion continued below. Stephen Turner (Talk) 13:29, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  new (?) infobox 

message: Just been looking through the :category:Cricket grounds and I see we don't have a :category:Cricket grounds in Ireland or any articles about them.  Does anyone have ready material to knock up a couple of stubs and create a sub-cat?  Remember that Northern Ireland and the Republic are combined in a cricket sense, as they are in rugby.  --BlackJack | talk page 11:50, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cricket Grounds in Ireland 

message: The following cricket category is up for delete or keep as you choose.  Please contribute at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2006_August_19#Category:Cricket_grounds_in_the_United_Kingdom
--BlackJack | talk page 13:44, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deletion discussion 

message: Please keep an eye on all Pakistan related pages. People have already started adding match reports. Tintin (talk) 17:20, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Law 21.10.  Sam Korn (smoddy) 20:36, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  England - Pakistan Test match 

message: Sally the n power girl, she's fantastic! Speedboy Salesman [[User talk:
Speedboy Salesman]] 22:09, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  There should be a page about.. 

message: Jguk is up and running again!!!!Blnguyen | rant-line 01:32, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Father of WikiProject is back 

message: I'm new to the excellent wikipedia cricket pages, and can't find an article on racism or accusations of racism in cricket... would be interesting; such accusations seem to come up a lot, especially during test controversies (e.g. recent comments by Shaharyar Khan implying Hair is racist). Is there such an article? If not do you guys think it would be a good idea to have one (I don't have the knowlege to create one)? Russ 07:40, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It would be quite difficult as we would be digging up quotes by people and sticking them together, rather than document concrete things like centuries, hat-tricks, etc, which are clearcut and dry. Blnguyen | rant-line 07:58, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Writing an article would be easy when compared to protecting it from everyone who want to add their personal opinions :-) Tintin (talk) 12:29, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Racism/accusations of racism in cricket? 

message: Where an infobox has a section for the date of a player's last appearance, is that the first or last day of his final match? I've been assuming the latter - ie his last appearance as a f-c (or Test, or whatever) player, even if he wasn't actually on the field - but I thought it worth checking. Loganberry (Talk) 15:21, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think I use the last day of his last match too. Stephen Turner (Talk) 13:19, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

text: I use the first day. Tintin (talk) 15:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox question 

message: The above artile has just been deleted for being a copyvio. Could someone please re-write it? I can access the deleted version and re-add the infobox and the cats as and when a non-copyright infringing article is put in place - just ping me once it is done. TIA, --Gurubrahma 14:29, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Asanka Gurusinha]] 

message: This is so big that many of its sub-categories have disappeared from the top and can only be found if you go to the appropriate letter of the alphabet.  This is poor in presentation terms.  Is it a problem with Wikipedia generally or something specific to this category?  --BlackJack | talk page 08:18, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Applied this fix Tintin (talk) 14:35, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

text: We agreed at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cricket/archive19#No-one should be in both Category:English cricketers and Category:English Test cricketers that... well, what it says. But no-one's actually done the work. I should probably get CricketBot to sort this out, though I haven't had time to run CricketBot for a few months. Stephen Turner (Talk) 20:03, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[:Category:English cricketers]] 

message: I was not sure if everyone involved in this project kept an eye on Deletion Sorting/Cricket, so I thought I would post here too. The above mentioned article is at AfD. It would be great if someone could improve the article or merge it in a relevant place. - Aksi_great (talk - review me) 18:30, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Ball tampering controversy in fourth Oval Test v Pakistan]] 

message: What do people think of this diff? Obviously, it needs rewriting at a minimum, because it sounds like self-promotion at the moment. But it seems too minor to me to appear in the main Cricket article at all. I haven't reverted it, because I wonder if it's bigger in other parts of the world, particularly Australia. Stephen Turner (Talk) 20:08, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the real point is that indoor cricket is so different that it is not a form of cricket in the same sense that the others are. JPD (talk) 10:32, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Indoor cricket 

message: Above is today's featured picture on the Main Page. -- I@n 01:14, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There are some comments on the misplacement of a few fielding positions (and the format of the diagram) on Talk:Fielding (cricket). -- ALoan (Talk) 13:45, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[:Image:Cricket fielding positions2.svg]]

message: Further to the discussions above, I've made a start on tying up the histories of the first-class county clubs with those of the earlier teams that represented the counties.  See Sussex cricket team and Sussex County Cricket Club for the first treatment.  --BlackJack | talk page 19:47, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As a matter of taste, I still don't like a Sussex cricket team page that covers most of the teams referred to like that simply with a link to the CCC article, but if we are going to have two articles, the alternative is a lot of duplication. If this is the model we are going to use, then Jack has indeed done a good job. JPD (talk) 09:42, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Old County Teams