Talk:Air New Zealand

message: Zeal320 article merged: See old talk-page here
I've removed the link on Zeal320. Apparently this subsidiary's own article has been "merged" (see above), but the link simply redirects to AirNZ. This isn't too helpful... As of the time of writing, the old talk page for Zeal320 contains only a brief discussion on the use of that logo - no info on the airline itself. 
"Needs attention." Best regards, Pufferfyshe (talk) 11:04, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Zeal320 merged

message: I should now add more detail to the pre-Ansett and post-Ansett sections, so as to balance the entry up. TEAL/Air New Zealand has a long history after all, and did a great deal more than just try to buy an airline bigger than itself and run out of money. Unfortunately, while I have good sources here on the Ansett disaster, and also on the Mount Erebus disaster, I don't have much on the early years. 
-- You might want to check out the book Flightpath South Pacific by Ian H Driscoll, published 1972 by Whitcombe and Tombs. -- 
The current write-up of the Mt Erebus crash, by the way, is good so far as it goes, but misses a crucial point: the Royal Commission was careful and exhaustive, but failed to properly understand that the primary rule of safety in aviation is the same primary rule that applies to ships at sea: the captain is at all times responsible for the safety of his vessel, no matter what other factors may intrude. This is why, for example, if a ship runs aground in a harbour entrance, it is regarded as the captain's fault, even though a marine pilot was in control at the time. It is a very harsh rule, but a very good rule. Essentially, it means that the aircraft captain is not just entitled to, but required to excercise his judgement, and take whatever action is needed to preserve his command - such as choosing not to fly into cloud at 2000 feet when not certain of the aircraft's exact position and knowing that there is a 12,000 foot mountain somewhere in the vicinity.
* I disagree. The Airline's Navigation planning staff changed the programming for the guidance computer waypoints to take the aircraft directly over Mt. Erebus the immediately before the flight and after Captain Collins had plotted hs route on a map.  The Captain was not alerted to the change in the computer flight plan by staff on the ground before takeoff.  Also, the Captain had not previously been given an opportunity to travel on an orientation flight as an observer as was required by Civil Aviation regulations.  Royal Commissioner Justice Peter Mahon, at the end of his book Verdict on Erebus, makes it clear that the Captain Collins' decision to continue to fly at 2000 feet under visual flying rules - apparently in clear air below the overcast and not in cloud - towards a mountain - was probably because the mountain was in white out conditions and could not be seen.  The Captain can not be held responsible for things he is not advised of or trained for - such as changed flight plans and poor training.  The coverup by the company afterwards made understanding what went wrong all the more difficult.  Captain Collins, an apparently careful pilot, exercised his judgement to the best of his abilities.  The plane crashed because the Captain based his judgement on navigation information that was changed without his knowledge and a polar whiteout condition that he was unfamiliar with and had not been trained to recognise, caused a 12,000 foot mountain to appear to be flat land that could be safely flown over.  Yes the Captain flew the plane towards the mountain, he did so because he could not see it, was not expecting it there and was not trained to recognise conditions that would make mountains disappear from view.  I think the Royal Commission understood the Captain's responsibility very well and identified that under these circumstances he was not responsible for the crash, as the crash was not due to decisions the Captain made.
None of this invalidates the other findings of the inquiry, of course. Nevertheless, there was considerable concern expressed in aviation safety circles that the Erebus Royal Commission finding placed at risk the longstanding doctrine of command responsibility.
::Wikipedia should not present misleading information and omit pertinent fact. The current entry is misleading where it says the Privy Council "overturned his findings". It most certainly did not overturn his findings, only some of them. Justice Mahon's finding that the crew was blameless was not overturned, a fact which is important in the context of the enquiry,  I am amending the page accordingly to give an accurate, NPOV, account. Moriori 23:52, Nov 16, 2003 (UTC)
::Why doesnt all this argument go into the talk page in the article about the crash itself? Antonio Hard as a Pole Martin 3:02, Jun 10, 2004 (MST)
I agree with Antonio's question! Robin Patterson 00:03, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: //

message: The list of videos in the advertising and promotion section seem arbitrarily chosen. Why not include the "Safety in Paradise" video, or "Fantastical Journey" or the current Antarctica one? What about Pete or Drake? If the criterion for inclusion is that it was widely reported outside NZ or generated controversy, the Safety in Paradise video would certainly count. Is there a point to such a section anyway? With videos being changed every few months, the list would soon grow unmanageably long.Mirza Ahmed (talk) 18:40, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Best is just to delete the "Advertising and promotion" section, none of them appear to be particularly noteworthy or unusual. MilborneOne (talk) 19:25, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, I removed it.Mirza Ahmed (talk) 19:30, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Advertising and safety videos 

message: Australia,
Samoa,
Argentina,
USA,
Hong Kong,
UK,
Fiji,
Niue,
Norfolk Island,
New Caledonia,
Tonga,
Tahiti,
Cook Islands,
China,
Singapore,
Taiwan,
Japan,
Canada,
Indonesia,
Korea (not yet started)
equals 20 - Not including New Zealand Itself.  The definition of country does get in the way here so the figure is not undebatable - New Caledonia and Tahiti are both technically France, Hong Kong and China! and China Taiwan? are both problematic and Norfolk and Australia has some questions as does Cook Is and NZ for that matter.  But if you define a country as seperate government structures and /or border controls this is a good list.  It is not however the current figure in the article.  I would be content just leaving the figure out as not being particularly useful and clear.  Andrewgprout (talk) 21:25, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  number of international destination countries 

message: There is a degree of content forking between the Tasman Empire Airways Limited and Air New Zealand articles, both covering the same airline from 1940 to 1965. Air New Zealand is a rebranding of Tasman Empire Airways Limited, rather than a new airline, its website stating it was incorporated in 1940. This is backed up by its Companies Office record. Therefore propose the articles be merged under Air New Zealand. By way of precedents, Ansett New Zealand that was rebranded Qantas New Zealand and Pacific Blue Airlines that was rebranded Virgin Australia Airlines (NZ), both have one merged article. Blueeluc (talk) 03:41, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: mildly oppose. Precedents quoted were less significant endeavours. Sufficient content exists for the two separate articles, plus NAC one (not mentioned). Duplicate content should be reviewed, but does not appear excessive. DMBanks1 (talk) 17:21, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the merger should be History of Air New Zealand into Air New Zealand, which were inexplicably separated in 2007. A good précis should reduce the combined word count by at least 40%. On further reflection, the references to TEAL, NAC, Ansett Aus fiasco, and the combined minor subsidiaries, should be no more than a few lines each, to minimize duplication. DMBanks1 (talk) 22:32, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  TEAL merge