Talk:List of alleged extraterrestrial beings

message: See above section.
Hey Fram, if you want to continue the discussion do it here. The RfClasted 30 days, editors have shown their support on leaving the images. If you want to continue the discussion then re-start a new section. My edition is according to the practice in wikipedia. You should have changed to no consensus at least.--Camilo Sanchez (talk) 16:41, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: by the way, in the History you said that i am not neutral to the discussion, neither are you.--Camilo Sanchez (talk) 16:42, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course I am not neutral, that's why I didn't close the discussion or tried to impose my reading of the consensus or lack thereof. And there is a clear lack of consensus, no clear support as you stated (and acted upon immediately afterwards). You should not have closed the discussion, you should not have reclosed it per WP:BRD as well, and I was correct in not changing it to a different outcome since I am involved as well. Your edits are definitely not according to practice on Wikipedia (i.e. involved editors do not close and "decide" discussions). I would like to invite an uninvolved editor to reread the discussion and close it as they see fit. Fram (talk) 16:52, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: So according to you how many more months should we have this discussion? The template stays there for 30 days which is the lenght of time it will be listed on the RfC elsewhere. If you mean guidelines then you don't remove a boilerplate in an archived discussion, you could have suggested the removal of the support to no consensus on the other hand, regarding your comment on polling as it is stated in your userpage wikipedia polling is frowned upon as per wp:polling guideline. So if we are talking best practices you should check your sources. --Camilo Sanchez (talk) 16:57, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll let other people answer this, as I can't make head or tails of your actual argument. Polling? Check your sources? As for "how many more months should we have this discussion", I have said, in the post you supposedly replied to, "I would like to invite an uninvolved editor to reread the discussion and close it as they see fit." Fram (talk) 17:00, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Your lack of understanding is not really an issue to me and I am sorry for that. I try to address your comments in the best manner by pointing out the parts of your position in which I find a discrepancy. Regarding your invitation of other editors..I welcome it!. --Camilo Sanchez (talk) 17:08, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Since you don't indicate what the supposed discrepancy is, I can not reply. If my discrepancy is that because I believe that involved editors should not close RfCs and/or decide the consensus, I have done neither of those, but have reverted another editor doing both, then I fail to see any discrepancy in this. If it is something else, explain it in more detail. Otherwise, you have no arguments left for why you have incorrectly closed and reclosed the RfC. Fram (talk) 17:12, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, let me put it in simpler terms as it may help you. RfC = Discussion listed for 30 days. After 30 days, the discussion either continues or is archived. (This allows the discussion to move forward and not remain dormant). A new section can be added so discussion to reach consensus can be engaged..perhaps with a new RfC. Do I make myself clear?. If you want to keep me from me editing a page in which we are having a discussion that is a total different story. --Camilo Sanchez (talk) 17:22, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't believe the RfC was as clear cut as your summary implies. A number of arguments were presented on both sides, I'd say the result was more inconclusive and a process of summarization would have helped test if a more credible consensus view could be reached. The 30 days is a convention but not a rule for having to close and as another contributor objected you could easily have put up an edit request for an independent editor to summarize here. Please reverse your closure.—Ash (talk) 17:44, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The closure is more an organizational move than a way to impose anything as an editor. If it makes you happy I have changed the result from support to no consensus. However, given the conditions it is obvious that this is becoming a "philosophical" discussion. I have no time to be reaching to more editors. All I know is that my common sense tells me: 1. The topic is per se a controversial one where graphic depictions require some level of tolerance, this however does not make a drawing worthless of inclusion. 2.Wikipedia is yet to deal with the "protectionism" shown by some editors to articles they have either worked on or identify themselves with and this brings as a consequence the lack of tolerance to certain contributions that fit perfectly in the scope of the topic at hand. 3.I have the freedom as an editor to close an RfC that has had no active discussion. My decision to assume support was based on the fact that the number of editors who support the inclusion of the images surpasses the amount of editors who stubbornly are keeping them from being included. So please, don't ask me to revert the archiving of a discussion that has remained inactive. If you wish to continue the discussion add a new section. Thanks.--Camilo Sanchez (talk) 18:44, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The last contribution to the RfC was only 4 days ago, I do not consider this "no active discussion". Please also note that your use of "number of editors who support" is not how RfCs work, it is not a vote.—Ash (talk) 18:53, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Ash, you fer goddam sure had best consider the arguments, under your argument, this is not a vote.  —Aladdin Sane (talk) 00:07, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Er, that's right, see WP:DEMOCRACY which says exactly that.—Ash (talk) 00:15, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

text: Whatever Fram, your opinion is obviously vilified.Temper tantrums will definitely not help us reach a consensus. I put it on your talk page and I repeating it here. Please refer to wp:Stay cool. Thanks. --Camilo Sanchez (talk) 15:06, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: My opinion is vilified? Right... I don't have a tantrum, I'm calmly explaining to the other editors why I will be ignoring you if you can't discuss this in a reasonable way. A tantrum is usually incoherent screaming, not a blow-by-blow argumentation of why you are not helping the discussion and where you go wrong. You can continue to believe that I am the problem here, but the fact remains that the only one who has repeatedly acted incorrectly and misrepresented things is you. Fram (talk) 15:47, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Camilo Sanchez, the facts are that you decided to unilaterally close an RfC without discussion, then blamed other editors when attempts were made to reverse your closure as you are partial to the discussion. You later changed your RfC conclusion without taking the recommended step of asking for an independent editor to close. I do not read Fram's paragraph as a temper tantrum but a summary of the situation, so your response appears to be an attempt to discredit Fram when you have created the situation in the first place. I believe the RfC should be re-opened and closed by an independent editor who may well reach the conclusion you originally preferred but who's closure would be credible for all parties.—Ash (talk) 15:55, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey guys, first, you must assume my good faith on this discussion. It is not in my interest to discredit Fram. I am seeking to come to a resolution on this discussion, that is it. Now, if we are talking discrediting, Fram is the one disassembling every paragraph as to reach a conclusion that will make me look biased. Now, whether there was consensus or not, or whether I should not have closed the RfC (which was no longer an RfC as it will only be listed here and nowhere else.)is a discussion that veers away from the focus of this talk page, which is the improving of the article's quality. Also, what does it take for you guys to understand that even if my move is not of your liking, my decision to be bold on the closing of the section and inclusion of the images (later reverted by Fram) comes as an assumption that the support is bigger than the opposition?. So for example, if the amount of editors that opposed the inclusion were bigger than the amount that supports it, would it be ok for me to contest such fact and keep pushing it until the decision is favorable to my view? Thanks.--Camilo Sanchez (talk) 16:28, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It would improve the article if the RfC were closed credibly. At the moment it is not and you appear to be refusing to re-open it for credible closure by an independent editor. Why?—Ash (talk) 16:45, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

text: The discussion is now reopened, and this one should be closed. Camilio, you appear to becoming somewhat fixated here, I suggest you back off, maybe do something else for a day or two.   pablohablo. 14:51, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Fram / RfC closure contested

message: Now that the RfC has been closed, some continued discussion is needed. Basically, for which of the alleged beings are the descriptions accurate enough that a matching image is possible, and in which cases do we have such an image. I don't think that, apart from perhaps the greys, any free non-user generated images are available, so we are stuck with either no images or user-created images. I would like to start the discussion with the first entry on the list, Andromedans / energy beings. I don't think that a reasonably accurate image can be made for such beings, because the descriptions and depictions of them are extremely varying. Energy beings is the entry where it is the most obvious that we should not have a (user created) image at all. Fram (talk) 13:00, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed as no criteria has been offered to judge such a drawing in comparison to any image already on the Commons of a blob of "energy" (see image on right) and any such image seems an unverifiable debatable distraction to the point of the article.—Ash (talk) 13:08, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Images

message: This whole thing about reliability of images of alien beings reminds me somewhat of this conversation from Johnny English.
(Context: Johnny English trying to describe an entirely fictitious antagonist to a police interrogator).
* Officer: ...what did this man look like?
* Johnny English: Ehm... well... he was big.
* Officer: Hair colour?
* Johnny English [looking at a bowl of oranges]: ... ehm...  Orange.
* Officer: Orange (?)
* Johnny English: Ehmmmm!  And curly. Well, frizzy, actually.  Frizzy sort of thing.
* Officer: ...frizzy...
* Johnny English [now in his stride]: An eye-patch. Broken nose.  Very few teeth -- two, I'd say at most.  And a scar on the cheek in the shape of [looking at bowl of fruit] ... a banana.
* Officer: Which cheek?
* Johnny English: [hesitating slightly] both cheeks.  They kind of met in the middle.
Officer shows him a computer-made image.
* "Are you sure about this"????
Well, this sort of reminds me of this article (and its talk page).    So, I want to ask the same thing: "Are you sure about this"?  And, while we are at it, is there something about these pictures that should perhaps look like a banana?  Maybe on both cheeks, at that???
-- Ekjon Lok (talk) 05:11, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: No one has argued that what's being illustrated is real; the images just attempt to faithfully depict the reports themselves, which may or may not have originated in the way you described. Abyssal (talk) 15:29, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Johnny English 

message: Dropa doesn't neeed to be listed here. The author himself claimed that he wrote the book as a hoax, which would negate the reason for Dropa to be under this category seeing as it's pure fiction. Just my opinion, but I'm sure others wouldn't disagree with me on this one. mÆniac Ask! 10:06, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: "The author himself claimed that he wrote the book as a hoax" Could you be more specific about "the author". Which author? Which book? Several people have written about and examined this topic, and there are several authors and documentary makers who are apparently unaware of this "hoax" aspect. Misty MH (talk) 18:37, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

text: We're talking about a list of space monsters. Its *all* fantasy here dude. 59.167.111.154 (talk) 21:36, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dropa? No reason to be listed here 

message: Based on reading the last afd on this article, I would like to propose a new new column "Notable Encounters", wherein examples of encounters with the entities can be linked upon (e.g. Barney and Betty Hill Abduction and Whitley Strieber Abduction for Greys)
What do you think?
103.14.63.84 (talk) 12:51, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting idea, as long as it doesn't somehow get some other article deleted as a result. :) Misty MH (talk) 22:04, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

text: Go ahead and do it; I don't have and problem with it and at least we'll get to see how it looks. Another editor might then make changes or remove it but only if they have reason to do so.--JohnBlackburnewordsdeeds 22:53, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Column 

message: All these pictures comparing humans to certain alien races show nude humans with explicit genitals. Stop with that pornography! I demand a censorship! - 177.140.132.62 (talk) 21:30, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: No. Wikipedia is not censored, and even if it were these are not pornographic, no more than Michelangelo's David or the Vitruvian Man is.--JohnBlackburnewordsdeeds 21:45, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stop with pornographic pictures 

message: Have you heard of the blue or purplish skinned aliens?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.81.221.229 (talk) 12:31, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  There is another type  

message: Move this to other topics. Yes, the history is relevant, but this technically is not a current species so does not belong here. 209.6.123.28 (talk) 03:05, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Little green men