Talk:Economic mobility

message: Ok, this article could be worse, but there is a persistent bias here. Everyone keeps refering to the United States. May I quote a (correct) part of the article:
all have more relative mobility than the US, while only the United Kingdom is shown to have less mobility[1].
By the above, it is not the United States, but the United Kingdom that should be the primary reference and the subject of this discussion. It is not least because everyones focus is on the United States that the British government is able to get away with so much. Focussing on the US in everything from Iraq to civil liberties has given the UK free liscence to do the same or far worse with total immunity.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.100.144.242 (talk) 09:54, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: bias

message: This statement seems odd: "80 percent of taxpayers had incomes in quintiles as high or higher in 2005 than they did in 1996, and 45 percent of taxpayers not in the highest income quintile moved up at least one quintile"
Is this even relevant? It seems almost disingenuous to use as it is not illustrative of the concept of economic mobility as most people imagine it.  Almost everyone will find themselves with a pretty substantial increase in income after 9 years of experience in almost every culture and during any time in history.  How is this useful information? --99.240.31.182 (talk) 18:34, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Absolute Mobility as a concept 

message: This statement needs a cite. It is far from obvious. Hmoulding (talk) 01:51, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Relative Mobility as a Zero Sum Game 

message: The section for US Economic Mobility needs to be improved.  Right now, it is just a summary of one publication, one fact from another publication and the content I have added.  The amount of specific information (percentages, etc) is larger than optimum for an encyclopedic article.  The section should be trimmed to convey the important points with numbers to back the points up rather than just listing numerical conclusions of a publication. Bjp716 (talk) 02:13, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. That section, and this article as a whole is largely based off of one study performed by a foundation which exists to promote a specific political agenda. There's a plethora of research out there, a quick search of lexis nexis brings up ten studies on economic mobility, there's no reason for this article to be so reliant on such a small pool of sources. I've added some new sources to the section on US Economic mobility, and I'm going to address the rest of the article when I get a chance. Hvatum (talk) 11:49, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Improvement needed in US Economic Mobility section 

message: The section currently ends with the following: "However, other recent studies have concluded that relative mobility is equal or greater in the US [7] [8]." The problem is, neither of the sources conclude that. 
Source 7 concludes that relative mobility is about the same. It bases its conclusion on data suggesting the U.S. has a slightly higher (statistically significant?) mobility FREQUENCY, while admitting that the US lags behind in mobility MAGNITUDE. As it is almost impossible for one to end up with exactly the same relative income as one's parents, a frequency test is an odd choice. It necessitates an arbitrary cutting of mobility into 2 sets (in this case, cross-quintile and intra-quintile), with intra-quintile movements and potentially vast differences among cross-quintile movements ignored. For example, a movement from the very bottom of Quintile 1 to the very top of Quintile 1 would not, by the frequency method, constitute mobility. On the other hand, the much less significant movement from the very top of Quintile 1 to the very bottom of Quintile 2 would not only constitute mobility but in fact the exact same amount of mobility as a movemement from the very bottom of Quintile 1 to the very top of Quintile 5. The only value of the frequency test seems to be that it's easier to understand. Source 7 is recent in the sense that 1996 is recent. The studies that show the Anglo-American world lagging behind are newer and go by income's correlation to parental income.
Source 8 is not even a comparison of countries. The only country it ever mentions is the U.S., and it concludes that mobility has decreased. 
I'm going to change "equal to greater" to "about the same" and move [8] to External Links. Tomblikebomb (talk) 17:06, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Economic Mobility Worldwide" Edit

message: The mention of the American Dream in the introduction seems a bit America-centric, especially if it's not placed in the context of other cultural attitudes towards work. If there aren't any objections, I'll remove it to the US section.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.65.3.182 (talk) 17:28, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  American dream remark 

message: Note this sentence in the US section:
"Although one third of the nation is moving up quintiles, another third is downwardly mobile — experiencing a decrease in income and economic standing compared to their parents."
It is not a coincidence that upward and downward mobility are broadly equal. For every individual who moves up a quintile, there is by definition someone else who moves down. It's the same reason why about half of students perform below average in school; that's just the definition of average.
It looks like there needs to be a section discussing the definition of income mobility, how it differs from income growth, etc. I might start one, but I'm not educated on this topic.Oconnor663 (talk) 17:45, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Math 

message: The Worldwide section starts with this sentence:
<Blockquote>Using the ratio of an individual’s current income to that of their parent’s, there is no academic consensus whether the United States has less or more relative mobility than other industrialized nations. </blockquote>
This seems as odds with recent media information but it has two citations: 
#  and 
# the American Dream Report
 leads viewers to this:<BR> 
http://wayback.archive.org/web/*/http://www.chicagofed.org/publications/workingpapers/wp2005_12.pdf <BR>i.e. a calendar. click on one of the "snapshots" on the calendar and you get: "Page Not Found" <BR>
the original link -- http://www.chicagofed.org/publications/workingpapers/wp2005_12.pdf -- also leads to "page not found"<BR>
i.e. the link is useless and does not go to any article. 
The second cite, the American Dream Report, has this to say about "whether the United States has less or more relative mobility than other industrialized nations": 
<Blockquote>Recent studies suggest that there is less economic mobility in the United States than has long been presumed. The last thirty years has seen a considerable drop-off in median household income growth compared to earlier generations. And, by some measurements, we are actually a less mobile society than many other nations, including Canada, France, Germany and most Scandinavian countries.</Blockquote>
Searching the page for either the word "academic" or "consensus" finds nothing about there being "no academic consensus whether the United States has less or more relative mobility"
The cite is highly misleading. The sentence is unsupported and contentious especially as the lead sentence of the section. I am going to delete it. --BoogaLouie (talk) 22:24, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Bias and inaccuracy

message: I suggested merging the two article a while back and got no support so I dropped the issue. Problem is: though there are differences in the two concepts, pretty much all the information in the non-academic media on mobility -- i.e. pretty much all the information of interest to the public -- is on vertical mobility by income, so there really isn't much to talk about in the Economic Mobility article that shouldn't also be in the social mobility article. Mucho overlap. --BoogaLouie (talk) 23:05, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Social Mobility]] article v [[Economic Mobility]] article

message: Please, get a better source than the Center for American Progress.  They're about as close to propaganda as Media Matters. PokeHomsar (talk) 00:24, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Worldwide section 

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thread_title:  Dr. Leigh's comment on this article 

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thread_title:  Dr. Stancanelli's comment on this article 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w19348/w19348.pdf  2600:8801:20C:7500:F82F:A59C:C17D:A978 (talk) 21:36, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  very important paper on the georgia land lottery 50-year followup