Talk:Ivan Gundulić

message: What wikipedia rules say about that? If we respect sources then he is Croatian Baroque Poet. If we respect time in which he lives then I dont know what should be right. Maybe wikipedia rules have answer for that? I'm here to follow the rules. For Nikola Tesla I exposed 20 sources that he is Croatian-Americanhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Nikola_Tesla/Nationality_and_ethnicity/Archive_11#Nikola_Tesla_is_Croatian-American but it is not respected. If Marco Polo was an Italian merchant then Ivan Gundulić is Croatian Baroque Poet, and that's why I support proposal. We need to take wikipedia examples and apply it everywhere equally. Mikola22 (talk) 14:00, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: And those two (Tesla and Marco Polo) are GA articles. MOS:CONTEXTBIO was somehow missed. Also, what will we do with all these sources describing Gundulić as a Croatian Baroque poet? I didn't even know that there were so many of them, I was surprised when I did a rather quick Google Books search. Is a mere mention in the bottom of the article that some describe him that way a fair representation of the reliable sources? And btw, I have no problem with a consistent use of that guideline. Tzowu (talk) 18:19, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: You gave an example (Francesco Petrarca), here is Marco Polo article etc. This must be our examples and for this article. We have to look at examples from wikipedia and  apply it in all articles equally, everything else is anarchy. Editors who think differently that is, they don't like your suggestions, especially the first one actually support anarchy. How could I be for any other suggestion when Francesco Petrarca and Marco Polo are Italians and Italy does not exist in their time. We must not enter into anarchy, if we enter into anarchy then we must change Francesco Petrarca,  Marco Polo Italian fact. Those editors who are against your proposal will certainly not speak like that in Francesco Petrarca and Marco Polo etc case, if they wanted to change something they would changed it long time ago. Croatia is a small country and of course we're not equal, but I think that   wikipedia articles must show as right direction no matter what. Mikola22 (talk) 05:00, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia rules 

message: These are the kind of sources found in the "ethnicity" section:
* "dr Milorad Vukanović: Niko nema pravo da svojata Dubrovnik!" - an interview in the "Alliance of Serbs in the Region" website
* "Mirko Vuksanović: Gundulić i Držić pripadaju i srpskoj baštini" - a press release by a member of SANU from a news portal
* "Ljubomir Stojanovic - Stare Srpske Povelje i Pisma, knjiga I, Beograd - Sremski Karlovci, 1929" - a book from 1929, with no page numbers
* "Vreme - Intervju – Zlata Bojović, istoričarka književnosti: Među Lavom i Drokunom" - an interview in a news magazine
* "Политика: Историчар књижевности Злата Бојовић: У Дубровачкој републици штампарије су биле ћириличне, а свој језик су називали и српским" - an interview in a political magazine
* Vukovic, Sanja (2018-03-29). "DUBROVNIK – ČIJI JE?". - a commentary on "srpskilegat" website
How are any of these RS? Tezwoo (talk) 01:08, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: They are not RS. These are mostly political pamphlets. We had such sources on Andrija Zmajević artice  and there  were thrown out of the article.Mikola22 (talk) 05:15, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I beg to differ. That is a generalisation. Rephrasing is in order. Forcing undue weight and labeling Vuk's work as "pseudo" is laughable and ironic, as his work was used by Croatian linguists of the time (accents, standard, what have you). Sadkσ (talk is cheap) 12:32, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Once again, no matter how right you may think that you are (speaking in genral), this sort of edit-warring is not doing the article of anybody justice. Sadkσ (talk is cheap) 12:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

text: What is wrong with using a interview to as respected paper as source to present a scholar's view? It is not the best option, but it's not that bad either. Are you really attempting to tell me that Vreme and Politika have no reputation? Sadkσ (talk is cheap) 12:35, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Vuk's works are pseudoscientific, he had no formal education and by defifition was nationalistic folk linguist. There is nothing ironic about Croats using standards from areas populated by Croats (Dubrovnik, Slavonia, Lika, Hercegovina) which never were part of Serbia, nor populated by majority of Serbs (Orthodox populations to be more precise). Vuks'd ictionary is full of words from older Croatian dictionaries, words collected in Croatia, swear words (original Serb vocabulary) and loanwords from Turkish, Greek, German, Hungarian, Italian, that is the base of modern Serbian language. To add most of scientist used racist theories that were considered facts at that time, and now are completely pseudoscientific.--Vineword (talk) 13:02, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: @Sadko do you have some quality sources (books, articles)? You can't prove everything with internet portals and claims that the Croats are stealing something from us, no one has the right to claim Dubrovnik etc.Mikola22 (talk) 14:50, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Interviews, press releases as sources 

message: In his family grave the surname used is Ghetaldi Gondola, not Gundulic.
He was an italian dalmatian as most of the Ragusean intellectual elite and aristocracy. He was not born Gundulic, he was born Ghetaldi Gondola.
Magnagr (talk) 08:13, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Source:my friend BeNiTo SerVasi (talk) 08:42, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Guys enough! Why can’t we have both?? I am tired of the attempts to Italianizr or Croatize figures relevant to both cultures. Italian premiers regard Croatia as the mist Italianesq country therefore closest in communality. Use this as an opportunity to show that friendship. Not to see it as a identity theft of one or another. You both seem to have very negative or cynical views on this. Mangar I iften see you automatically claim the Croats are Croatizing figures even though many of these figures are of Slavic or Italo-Slavic background when the Croatian nationality was coming into play. None of us are purely one genetic background. Identity is a created thing. There are Croats of Magyar ancestry and Hugarians of Croat ancestry for example. See “Skorosh” Hunagrian like Croatian surname in Croatia or “Horvat” Croat based Hungarian Surname in Hungary. SerVasi, please stop with the edit waring and erasing of Gandolic’s Ragusan/Dubrovnicki Italian/Croatian names. Ragusia was heavily Italian influenced and built as well. That joint culture should be a celebrated pount not a negative one. /end rant. Cheers. OyMosby (talk) 16:11, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  He was born Ghetaldi Gondola

message: The redirect Talk:Ivan Gunduli? has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached.  TartarTorte 16:46, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
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