Talk:Gangsta rap/Archive 2

message: Should "Gang violence, inner city poverty, crime" remain in Gangsta rap's original major influences list? Obviously these things are lyrical concerns, but I think the "Influences" list is more about musical style influences. / edgarde 17:24, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gang violence, inner city poverty, crime 

message: please explain to me why geto boys aren't listed and why are the artists called "instigators" that reeks of spiteful bias.furthermore why no one brings up the fact that gangsta rap also has socio political undertones to it??? User:Blackdragon6
maybe because they aren't important enough? We can't list every rapper on here after all.
:Ghetto Boys are frequently appended to the Early list. I'm no expert, but I think they made a spash at the time — one party line was GB were the real thing and N.W.A were a hype (though I don't wish to debate that point, thanks).
:Would someone consider adding a well-sourced mention of Ghetto Boys to the article, preferably emphasizing their influence? I think they're a few months too late to be Early. (I'd be careful about adding anything after N.W.A made it big, roughly 1987-88 1989.) / edg ☺ ★ 14:57, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Ghetto Boys & Gangsta Rap

message: Some guy around here edited the page because he thinks that Schoolly D is NOT a gangster rapper but rather only a hardcore rapper. I find this claim quite absurd, as Schoolly D's wikipedia article says he pioneered gangster rap, but what do you guys think? This guy seems to think that Ice-T did pioneer gangster rap as he pretty much followed the steps of Schoolly D..
:Per above, I agree with categorizing Schoolly under Hardcore rap. I'd like to find the context for that Ice-T quote, but even as quoted on the Schoolly D article, T seems to think he took it over a line Schoolly hadn't quite crossed.
:Whatever. I'll say I don't think that part of this article should be changed. — edgarde 09:20, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gangster rap or not? 

message: Kris Kross is not a gangsta rap group. Any reference to them needs to be removed. Additionally, I removed rappin 4-tay because he was listed under southern gangsta rap when he is from San Francisco. Also, isn't bling bling a subset of rap in itself? I don't think it should be a part of gangsta rap. I suspect most real gangsta rappers would agree with me.
153.18.17.22 21:56, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kris Kross Reference 

message: :In his 1984 12" single "Gangster Boogie"  he mentions it with "I shot call a ? with my gangster lean"
I think if we're going to have this in the article, we need to find out what the missing word is... - furrykef (Talk at me) 05:00, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Schoolly D lyrics 

message: In what's sure to be an ongoing nuisance list, an anonymous editor has added "subgenres" to the infobox, with the following:
*Australian Hip Hop
*Oldschool
*Trash Beat
Am I correct in assuming these are not subgenres of gangsta rap, and should go in another article. "Australian" sets a bad precedent because rap music exists now in many countries, in many languages. (French rap being especially fun for us anglophones.)
Could we agree on a list of subgenres that aren't really side-genres? Or is it better to simply delete that info from the infobox? / edgarde 04:01, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Subgenre list 

message: You wrote:
<P>"Cash Money Records, also based out of New Orleans, had enormous commercial success with a very similar musical style and quantity-over-quality business approach to No Limit but achieved even less critical acclaim and were widely ridiculed."
<P>Most rap fans would tell you that CMR garnered more critical acclaim and less ridicule than No Limit. You should at least change the language to make it more neutral.
<P>both were successful, neither were critically acclaimed. problem solved. Drumac 01:18, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Critical acclaim: No Limit vs. CMR 

message: Should there be a seperate section on "criticism of gangsta rap", or "controversy" or something like that? Because there is some mentions of criticism of Gangsta rap in the introduction, but there is no section of the article that clearly presents the arguments for and against Gangsta Rap. Heavy Metal Cellisttalkcontribs
:A Criticism or Controversy section would need to be kept strictly WP:NPOV, and unsourced material should be removed on sight. Otherwise this section may be dominated by drive-by editorials. / edg ☺ ☭ 20:10, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If it's WP:NPOV, then it should be unbiased either for or against it, and should include all opinions on the matter that have been researched. Of course that research has to be done by someone first, or we can't include it. I wouldn't have thought that the kind of people who listen to Gangsta Rap would be that inclined to visit Wikipedia in the first place, so I doubt that many experts on the subject will come forward to do the work, and if they did, they'd hardly be inclined to create a subsection noting criticisms of their beloved music (and I use the term very loosely). But then again, this is solely my opinion, and their maybe someone out their that's willing to do it.Bennelliott • Talk • Contributions 21:25, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Controversy 

message: The reasons given for (and the fact of) the commercial decline of Gansta Rap in the last couple years are dubious, unsupported, and unsourced except for a single Bill O'Reilly (a dedicated scholar of Hip Hop if there ever was one) conjecture.  The degree to which Biggie Smalls is responsible for the Virginia Tech massacre, for example, to say nothing of the number of people who actually believe this, and the influence an accusation like that has on your average rap consumer's purchasing choice, isn't considered very critically or neutrally.  If there are no objections, I'm going to try and find actual information on the popularity of the genre and rewrite the section. S. Martin 22:46, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Decline" 

message: Should the Sugarhill Gang be mentioned in the "groups who influenced gangsta rap" but were not really gangsta rap?  They had the first commercially successful rap song, so I think it's fair to say they had some influence on all rap.  They also have been sampled by gangsta rappers such as Notorious B.I.G. and Boogie Down Productions. User:BBonds 21:56, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Can't deny the Sugarhill Gang were influential, but I don't think we can reasonably list all influences on rap in general as Gangsta rap influences. This should be limited to more direct precedents. / edg ☺ ★ 13:55, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Sugarhill Gang

message: Spice 1, whose albums started coming out in 1991, seems too late for Early gangsta rap artists. I think the cutoff date should be when Straight Outta Compton hit big, roughly 1989 (or late 1988).
Sir Jinx is a stub with connections. Is he notable enough to be included in Early gangsta rap artists?
Either one of these artists may be notable enough for a mention in the article, but I think they should be removed from Early gangsta rap artists list. Any objections? / edg ☺ ★ 15:39, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Spice 1]] and [[Sir Jinx]] on ''Early gangsta rap artists'' list ? 

message: I understand the criticism being listed,but why is their no counterargument to balance it out??--Blackdragon6
:I guess the problem is finding counterarguments. Adverse criticism of gangsta rap is everywhere — a few days ago I heard repeated indictments in a discussion of emergency medicine completely unrelated to music or media. If anyone can provide a few well-sourced and notable counterpoints (that gangsta rap serves a social good, that it's good art, anything good), they could be a great improvements to the article. / edg ☺ ★ 14:52, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: NPOV regarding criticisms

message: IMHO, some space should be given to criticism of Gangsta Rap from within the rap world (by groups such as Public Enemy for example), as many Rappers, particularly more politically driven ones, have condemned Gangsta Rap as being detrimental to the black communityIsaac Benaron 20:49, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds good. Sourced additions would be very welcome. / edg ☺ ★ 16:05, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

text: You might notice reading this Talk page that pretty much all criticism, positive or negative, gets objections here. Any criticism added should be sourced and notable. / edg ☺ ☭ 05:19, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Criticism from within Rap/hip-hop