Talk:Antifaschistische Aktion

message: This is really horrible english, I know. I will ad some pictures to. Can you please check it through for spelling faults Slappis 12:33, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Come on, you know the spelling sucks. Please change it. And fix the picture!!!! Slappis 10:10, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: I fixed up the article quite a bit, and I'll make sure to edit it even further. Jobjörn 20:19, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Woohoo 

message: Hmm. The image (the AFA logo) is not working properly: one may want to see . Jobjörn (Talk | contribs) 15:44, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I rather see the black fana first (it is historicly more correct) and not as on the swedish page, the red first Slappis 22:06, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  That's not my point. (I uploaded that image, and put it there.) Try clicking on the image to see its image description page! Jobjörn (Talk | contribs) 22:14, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  We are dealing with an odd image. 

message: In this diff, Itake accuses me of POV pushing. What I did was merely formatting two references he provided and deleting two others - could someone, such as Itake himself, please explain how that would constitute POV pushing, and furthermore, explain why it was necessary to remove the formatting of the references that were kept? Jobjörn (Talk ° contribs) 01:46, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alleged POV pushing 

message: Hello,
i´d like to change the part about germany, as german antifa groups are also well known for their agitation against police, especially at demonstrations or their public tries to block neo nazi rallys.
4 days ago, 3000 militant antifa activists caused high property damage and injured several neonazis and 82 riot police, using sticks, stones, pipes, bottles, petards, signal rockets and molotov cocktails. That´s normality if neonazis try to march, so i guess it should be mentioned. Unfortunately i´m not sure if my english is good enough, could anybody do that for me?
source:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ngsk8_j3YCE&feature=player_embedded  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.224.176.125 (talk) 18:19, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Antifa groups in Germany are widely regarded as left-wing extremist, dangerous, violent and even racist toward Germans (or any form of affection to Germany). German Antifa's calling everybody a nazi who's criticizing them, they are hurting people just because of their political opinion and agitating against persons who say anything critical about foreigner's criminality, Islam or the European Union. The Antifa in Germany is definitely left-wing extremist and if you're not part of them (which applies, gladly, to the most of Germans) you are automatically considered a racist because you are "not fighting racism." Long story short, it has to be added that Antifa in Germany is not a peaceful racism-fighter but an extremist Germany-hater.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.17.153.69 (talk) 01:43, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Antifa in Germany 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I discovered this blog. It may be added to the trivia section, I think. 83.85.143.141 (talk) 23:30, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dutch AFA is monitoring the Dutch Wikipedia 

message: Calling the explicit network structure of Antifa "Platformist" is offensive, absurd, and historically inaccurate. Antifa are not explicitly anarchist and they have existed throughout their modern revival as a completely decentralized informal organization. There is nothing in their structure that can be even remotely characterized as "Platformist." <-- This unsigned comment was made by Dimadick 07:26, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Had to go back a long time, but here is the suspected anonymous which left the unsigned comment at 20:45, August 8th, 2011: 166.129.171.141 by User:166.129.171.141. Apologies. 83.85.143.141 (talk) 13:17, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Platformist? 

message: This section seems irrelevant to the article - is there any references that activities of people labelled 'antifa' in the USA are formally related to the German group Antifaschistische Aktion?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tadramgo (talk • contribs) 16:10, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  The United States of America 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: https://www.njhomelandsecurity.gov/analysis/anarchist-extremists-antifa
Due to recent edits by respective users we now must discuss how to put this into the article.
Its sourced by the official website of the homeland security department of New Jersey so there is no disputing the validity of the source. Regarding the context, "Anti-fascist groups, or “Antifa,” are a subset of the anarchist movement and focus on issues involving racism, sexism, and anti-Semitism, as well as other perceived injustices." the article is also deliberately titled "Anarchist Extremists: Antifa". Aside from that the source links several incidents where Antifa were involved in violent clashes with right-wing radicals which fits the title of "extremist" quite well.
Here is the proposed edit.
They've been categorized as anarchist extremists by the New Jersey Office of Homeland Security and Preparedness.
Its clear-cut they are being called "anarchist extremists" by New Jersey Homeland Security since that is New Jersey Homeland Security's actual website and the title is what the title is but here we are. May a consensus be built. 70.44.154.16 (talk) 20:36, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: In fact it's headlinese and not clear-cut at all. Though thank you for removing the outright hoax version that you originally preferred. I responded below (missed this section initially). TiC (talk) 20:48, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Aye. 70.44.154.16 (talk) 21:23, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Classification of Antifa in the United States 

message: previously the article featured an outright hoax claiming that antifa had been added to some kind of official list of terrorist groups. it is important to understand that this hoax is not original to wikipedia, but is part of the "anti-antifa" canon because of a Daily Caller article itself likely drawn from Alex Jones's infowars.com. 
well, now the hoax has been removed, but the text still features a highly questionable interpretation. the entire case for including this text is the headline, "Anarchist Extremists: Antifa." there is nowhere in the text any general claim that "antifa are anarchist extremists" or equivalent. it's based entirely on the headline. but look at the format this source uses for its headlines:
ISIS: Continues to Withstand Leadership Losses
Al-Qa’ida: Rise of Hamza Bin Ladin
New Jersey: Family’s Report Thwarts Pressure-Cooker Bomb Plot
in other words "Anarchist Extremists: Antifa" is plausibly read as headlinese, not "categorization [of antifa] as anarchist extremists."
i have other problems with the reliability of the source (anonymous, no methodology, no indication of editorial procedures, literally an agency that answers to one of Donald Trump's most prominent loyalists, etc) and with just the relevance of this information, but i think this shows why it should be removed. or if it must stay it would have to be in some kind of annoying meta-controversy way documenting what the njohsp article actually said and its representation in the media, rather than just echoing a narrative. TiC (talk) 20:46, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Eloquent, but your conclusion that the "new jersey bullshit" is a "hoax" appears to be drawn up from simply original research and not from a direct source. Governor Christie is indeed a close ally of President Trump however I don't feel that disqualifies the source's inclusion, say if, Governor Jerry Brown had one of his state's departments classify some random right-wing group as extremists while also being a close ally of President Obama it wouldn't necessarily disqualify it either. 70.44.154.16 (talk) 21:21, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: That misrepresents the point. They did not 'classify' Antifa as anything. The article discusses some violent incidents (including some against antifa) and says more are likely. That's it. Big deal.  It's pretty bland as far as what it's saying. The claim that Antifa has been 'classified' as something is garbage-level original research. This is why reliable, independent sources should be used for interpreting sources. Grayfell (talk) 21:50, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

text: There is also a discussion of this issue at Talk:Antifa (United States)#Nj dhs, where this would hypothetically be a better fit, anyway. Grayfell (talk) 21:53, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: The word "classify" isn't even used in the proposed sentence for starters. Second I don't see how them including violent incidents against Antifa is some major revelation against the validity of the source. Your opinion that it is "garbage-level original research" is completely ridiculous and I find myself unable to continue this discussion when you're so unable to conduct yourself in a proper manner. 70.44.154.16 (talk) 23:46, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: You used the word "classify" yourself, above. Your comparison is only as informative as the words used to make it. I don't know if I would call this a hoax, but it's definitely not well-supported by reliable sources. It's also very heavily covered by utterly unusable fringe sources like Infowars, 4chan, reddit, etc. This is a problem, as Wikipedia uses reliable sources, not unreliable ones, and not hypothetical situations. I also wouldn't discount the NJ state office just because it's connected to the Trump administration. The source doesn't actually say what's being presented here. It's pretty bland in terms of content. That is enough of a reason to treat the government post as a lightweight source. Grayfell (talk) 01:40, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  the new jersey bullshit 

message: See Talk:Antifa movements#Requested move 19 August 2017 Doug Weller talk 12:11, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move request for related article 

message: The first sentence says "Antifaschistische Aktion, Antifascistische Aktie, Antifascist Action or Antifascistisk Aktion — abbreviated as Antifa (German/Dutch/English) or AFA (Scandinavian) — is a far-left, extra-parliamentary, anti-fascist network in Germany, Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Australia, Canada, the UK and the United States of America whose stated goal is to "smash fascism in all its forms" and is sourced to a Swedish Antifa website. If you look at  it discusses a Swedish national network but doesn't seem to say it's affiliated with any other group. [https://antifa.se/presentation/presentation-2/ This pagf
e] says "We are part of an international movement combating fascism and racism all over the world." That's in English so I don't think there's any translation problem. If they are part of a network they'd say so.
The second sentence abandons the 'network' concept and now calls it an 'organisation'. 
Then we have "AFA works with other anti-racist groups all over Europe." That's the Swedish group again being used as a source. Yes, the Swedish group called Antifascistisk aktion does indeed work with other groups. But this sentence seems to be about - what? The Swedish group according to the sources, but this article is supposedly about more than the Swedish group. Note: at this point I began to wonder seriously if it actually was. So, I looked at the first edit. Hey, guess what? It's just about the Swedish group. No wonder it uses the Swedish group as a source and about 3/4 of its sources are Swedish.
Can we please get back to the original article about a Swedish group? Doug Weller talk 09:53, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't read this before starting to edit today. What I'll do is make a new page on German Antifa, move the gallery to the Antifa movements page, and make this page just about Sweden - is that sensible?BobFromBrockley (talk) 10:58, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

text: EXCEPT the Swedish organisation is called Antifascistisk Aktion so that should be the page for the Swedish organisation, and Antifaschistische Aktion should be the page about the German movement. BobFromBrockley (talk) 11:01, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Questioning the factual accuracy of this article & why it was hijacked from its origin as an article about the Swedish group. 

message: As I mentioned elsewhere, very WP:BOLD major edits that change the pov of the article to make explicit anti-communist claims about the origin of antifascist groups need consensus before inclusion. Simonm223 (talk) 13:21, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I've not checked into this page since the end of July and one editor has apparently totally rewritten it, removing several reliable sources and wikimedia resources, and transforming and text to turn the article into an attack piece equating the subject solely with the KPD, using heavily non-NPOV language. This needs drastic new work, based on scholarly sources. BobFromBrockley (talk) 08:00, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  No anti-communist coatracking please 

message: I thought you might be interested in the article in the Rote Fahne that announces the establishment of the Antifaschische Aktion on May 26 1932. A scan is available here. I suspect that many people might have difficulties reading a low-quality scan of a page typeset in Fraktur, so I have created transcript of the scan. I'm not quite sure if it is in the public domain yet (Germany yes, I think, US not yet); please ask if you need a copy. Vexations (talk) 18:23, 3 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rote Fahne 

message: Re this edit: I think it is a bad move to replace the full name "Antifaschistische Aktion" so many times and replacing with "Antifa". There's so much confusion about the latter term, and the various groups and movements it is used in relation to, that it would be safer to retain the full proper name of Antifaschistische Aktion most of the times we talk about them. BobFromBrockley (talk) 16:47, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: , I suppose you meant this edit, right? I believe you are right and so I have changed it back to this both here and at Antifa (Germany). Davide King (talk) 10:49, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you . I think that's better. BobFromBrockley (talk) 09:52, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Antifa  

message: The article says that it was part of the Communist Party but the 1932 poster attacks communism. How come? 82.37.67.151 (talk) 01:14, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: The poster is not theirs, but an SPD poster. I agree it's confusing. I'll remove. BobFromBrockley (talk) 12:38, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

text: Marxists are attempting to appropriate non-Marxist anti-fascist (but also anti-communist) symbols like the "three arrows." Hence, the bizarre ahistorical association of the three arrows with a militant communist group that was in conflict with the very people who created the "three arrows" in the first place. 98.169.246.47 (talk) 18:05, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confusing 

message: the three arrows logo is anti-communist (the arrows represent anti-monarchist, anti-fascist, anti-communist); anti-fascist action was founded by the KPD, a communist party. it seems weird to have an anti-communist logo as the main image for this article. this should be changed to just the AFA logo in my opinion, but I'm afraid if I change it someone will start an edit war. thoughts? 69.113.236.26 (talk) 02:37, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: The thing is Antifaschistische Aktion doesn't promote or advocate for communism, regardless of who it was originally founded by. Helper201 (talk) 16:38, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: The "social fascists" would have been relieved to hear that. 98.169.246.47 (talk) 18:06, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  "three arrows"