Talk:Matty Groves

message: (To all previous editors & commenters:  I'm interested, too, which is dangerous to my well-being (JOKE!).)
After reading of the purported derivation of the former courting/seduction/(stalking ?)/wishful ballad from the latter murder ballad, I started digging (very dangerous to one's "normal" life) and got even more confused.  (See my recent notes in the "Shady Grove (song)" "Talk" page" and "history". It doesn't help that I am not a musician and cannot read music.)  It appears that to me that the Fiona Ritchie's & Doug Orr's book's take on this might have an editing error in it, but of course they are a not an original source.
Anyway, a couple of days ago I found this web stuff (which could distract any curious/compulsive reader for weeks!):
* Matty Groves AND Shady Grove: https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=131461#2966111    "Subject: RE: Origins: 'Shady Grove' a mondegreen" ?
* Shady Grove: https://dakotadavehull.com/airship/
* Shady Grove: http://alexbledsoe.com/2010/02/08/shady-grove-and-the-tradition-of-living-songs/
* Matty Groves: https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=83878 
* Matty Groves (by Charles Owston): http://zeegrooves.blogspot.com/2010/02/fairport-convention-matty-groves.html 
* Matty Groves (by Patrick Blackman): https://singout.org/2012/02/20/matty-groves-little-musgrave-and-lady-barnard/ 
* Matty Groves (by Patrick Blackman): https://singout.org/2012/02/22/a-bower-in-bucklesfordbury/ 
* Matty Groves (by Patrick Blackman): https://singout.org/2012/02/24/god-make-you-safe-and-free/ 
(One of John Jacob Niles's ballad books awaits me at the Evanston Public Library, because I cannot leave sleeping songs lie...  For me, it all started in 1970-71 with Fairport Convention and Quicksilver Messenger Service.) Acwilson9 (talk)...October 2017 (UTC)
:(copied from Talk:Shady Grove (song)#18th-century?)
:::Dave Swarbrick, cited in Heylin's 2000 Sandy Denny biog, says: " 'Matty Groves', Sandy and I put the words together from Child. We put it to an American tune..." - the latter clearly Shady Grove. I have made appropriate adjustments to both this article and the one for Liege and Lief. As discussed on various forums (mudcat etc.), there is no other association whatsoever between the two songs. Regards - Tony Tony 1212 (talk) 21:32, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Tony:  It appears that you also did the same in the Matty Groves article. Thanks. Acwilson9 (talk) 22:24, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: "[[Shady Grove (song)]]" derived from "Matty Groves" - are we sure?

message: I have removed (and re-removed) covers of this song where the album nor the artist are linked. As this song is hundreds of years old, it obviously does not make sense to include every version, regardless of notability. I will also add that none were cited, except for a Bandcamp link which is the same as linking to a Youtube video to establish notability. I see no grounds for inclusion of non-notable covers of this folk song. Is there any argument for including them? ‡ Єl Cid of Valencia talk  15:07, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Several of the groups you've removed are notable, I know because I listen to some of them myself on google music where they have several albums and are published by 'real' publishing companies. You can see that there are articles for several of them on non-US wikis. I'm working on linkifying several of them and you constantly removing them makes that task harder. I agree that some of them need to be removed but just removing any that currently don't have articles is not the way to go about it. Suppafly (talk) 15:16, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Having an article establishes notability (though it can be challenged via deletion). Not having an article does not mean a topic is not notable, but it cannot be presumed notable in lists like this (a source establishing notability is generally required). What I'm saying is, a very very good rule of thumb in situations like this (where there are excessive examples) is to remove inclusions that are un-linked and un-sourced. That's what I did. I don't appreciate you implying that I did anything improper. In lists of notable people or things, links are generally required as an initial gatekeeper of notability. Again, it is a rule of thumb meaning there are certainly exceptions. But if these artists are notable (see WP:BAND for notability standards), I invite you to create articles and link them to this article; in the alternative, I invite you to source the inclusions to reliable sources that verify and create notability of the band and/or the recording. This is an old article and many of the artists removed have been here for years. I would further ask you to remove any entries which you do not contend are notable - as I assume you do not argue that all the entries I remove should be included. If you have questions please let me know. Thanks ‡ Єl Cid of Valencia talk  15:27, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I wasn't implying anything, no hard feelings. Suppafly (talk) 15:36, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cover versions