Talk:Australian workplace agreement

message: In reply to TedEBare,
"The article should make it clear that the existence of AWAs do not limit the ability of workers to seek employment by award or collective bargaining."
For those applying for a job, it is solely up to Employers whether employment is offered initially under a collective agreement or an AWA, and such can be offered on a take it or leave it basis regardless of whether current employees are employed under a collective agreement or award. Working conditions in an AWA offered to a job applicant may be less than conditions provided to existing employees under AWAs or collective agreements. Workers on a collective Bargaining Agreement can refuse to sign an AWA, however Employers can deny promotion opportunities unless they choose to sign an AWA. So an AWA changes employment bargaining by giving the Employer much greater power in the employment contract. 
Instead of criticising the fully cited criticisms made of AWAs and reducing the article to the lowest common denominator, perhaps you could help balance the article by contributing to it. I would welcome your improvements to this article by adding quotations stating "the view of several employer associations", fully cited of course. 
You have said in regard to my use of ABS statistics "The problem is that like many creditable sources it can be selectively cited in order to present a view that is or appears biased." Then please provide the citations to the statistics that offer a different view. Criticism without specific references to improving the article are not helpful.
How do I think the article can be improved?
 The summary paragraph needs to mention that the introduction of AWAs is a controversial industrial relations issue.
 The Opposing Views section should contain more cited opinions from Peak Employer and Business Organisations.
 If there are more recent statistics on AWA coverage and impact on working conditions, they should be added to the article, without deleting the stats on the introductory period. 
 The article also needs a brief history of individual employment contracts in Australia, and their origin in recent times in the right wing free market ideology of the H. R. Nicholls Society, and their push for changes in employment contracts. This is necessary background to understanding the introduction of AWAs as part of a long term ideologically driven agenda.
I was asked to justify in June 2006 the widespread criticisms of AWAs by providing full citations. I provided the citations requested and several more. The article needs to reflect that there is widespread criticism of AWAs. Please re-read my comment above dated 11 June 2006. I do not think this article breaches NPOV policy. Each assertion or opinion is based on fact and cited. However, I do believe the article can be improved generally (see above). Takver 14:50, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The article still has to present a balanced view, cited or not. If there isn't a fair hearing given to both sides of the argument then the article is by definition POV. The onus isn't on someone else to include the positive elements and supportive material, it is on each editor to make sure the article is neutral and fair when they have done with it. 70.189.213.149 19:24, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Improving the Article 

message: The article represents negative and positive aspects of the legislation.--Samerin 08:52, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bias 

message: The arguments on this page in defense of the article's neutrality are far more convincing and cited than the counter arguments. Whilst this article may have needed a tag questioning the articles neutrality in 2006, there was no reason for Martin bennett76 to update the tag to 2007 without adding or discussing anything else. 
If anything I think this tag should be removed, if anyone thinks that the article needs more references or arguments for the positive aspects of these agreements then they can write them and source them, rather than just accusing the article of NPOV. Master z0b 06:47, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree. The arguments against the Neutrality have outlined their problems while those defending it merely resort to the same old "well why don't you add some stuff?" crutch. The problems with this article remain and as such the NPOV flag should also. 70.189.213.149 12:06, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well firstly, I didn't mean "well why don't you add some stuff?" I mean if the article is non POV please provide some evidence to do so. Simply stating that something is non POV because it doesn't have as much info on one side as another isn't enough.
Secondly and more importantly, a user named Martin bennett76 had changed the NON POV tag from an original date of 2006 to a much later date of 2007 with no comment or reason to do so. This is quite clearly inappropriate and was another factor for the removal of the tag, as it seemed that there was a deliberate attempt to maintain the dispute and the validity of the tag without doing anything to actually clean up the article. Master z0b 05:45, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Ok I'm trying my best to remove non neutral langage. The issue of AWAs is very important and will become more so during the election so I would like to see this article in a clean, factual state before then so that voters can research the issue for themselves. In an effort to remain neutral myself I'm not going to add any new information to either side. If anyone feels this article needs more info to become NPOV then please be bold, add something here or to the page itself. Otherwise I'm going to request that the tag is removed again. Master z0b 12:40, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have just added an external link to the ACCI (Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry, a leading supporter of AWAs), and removed a silly paragraph that was clearly Vandalism. Master z0b 05:16, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I added a sentence showing that while the labour movement may oppose AWAs they are widely supported by business groups and added a reference. I may also add something about very strong support for them in the mining industry and their wide spread use therin. After that I'm removing the POV tag. Master z0b 06:14, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This article is clearly biased, it contains a heading dealing with opposition but little information in terms of support and benefits. I will begin working to improve the article however in its current state it is definitely non-neutral. Mr john luke (talk) 11:27, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Remove Neutrality tag 

message: This is one of the articles that came up as edited multiple times from an Australian government office. You think they would learn to edit from their homes or summat, but anyway, this is one of the thousands of pages edited by government computers, so keep an eye out JayKeaton 13:02, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Really? I tried a WHOIS on a couple of IPs but didn't come up withanything. Master z0b 15:53, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Note

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I have just modified  on Australian workplace agreement. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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thread_title:  External links modified