Talk:Beer/Archive 1

message: A few bones of contention with the Etymology section: 
: Of the two terms, beer and ale, the latter is the older in English. 
I can't imagine where the author was coming from on this point.  Both are as old as the written English (and hence, Germanic) word itself.  One may hypothesise about unattested Proto-Germanic origins, but as soon as the English word is written, both words are attested in the language as seemingly native germanic terms, so I simply don't know what asserting that one is 'older' means.
:It is believed to come directly from the proto-Indo European root *alu-, through Germanic *aluth- ([1]). The same word is the stem for Finnish olut, Estonian õlu, Danish øl and Latvian alus. 
This might be the case, but if so, it is a foreign borrowing, presumably from Proto-Germanic, and not a direct native derivation in Finnish and Estonian, as Finnish and Estonian are not Indo-European languages like Danish and Latvian.  Conflating borrowings with direct derivations confuses the account.
:Beer, on the other hand, is considered to come from the Latin bibere (to drink, [2]). Old English sources distinguish between "ale" and "beer,"
Old English sources do not "distinguish" between ale and beer as far as I am aware.  They refer to both 'beor' and 'ealu', but I am not aware of any Old English text in which these two are juxtaposed as different drinks and a distinction is made.  The terms appear to be interchangeable.  
:The Old English form of "beer" disappeared shortly after the Norman Conquest, and the word re-entered English centuries later, in exclusive reference to hopped malt beverages.
If the Old English 'form' refers to the word form, then certainly the fact that English was virtually unwritten in major extant manuscripts during the first century after the Norman conquest would provide for its 'disappearance'.  But that doesn't really have anything to do with beer as such.  At any rate, "centuries later" is patently false.  "Beore" is used in Layamon's Brut circa 1200.  But as for 12th century usage, seeing as significant 12th century English manuscripts are virtually non-existent, attempting to demonstrate anything about usage is basically impossible.  One could say the same thing about many another word and it would be equally true and equally meaningless.  If no one wrote 'horse' in an extant manuscript due to the English language's disuse in the first half-century after the Norman conquest, does that mean no one was riding horses for the duration of the period?  More likely, if there was a decline in horse-riding, which is entirely possible, it simply isn't an etymological matter: If the "Old English form" refers to the brewing of beer without hops, that would seem to just be part of the larger historical phenomenon involving the transition to widespread use of hops, and would seem to be all but irrelevant to etymology and the disuse of English following the Norman conquest. --Yst 23:07, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Etymology

message: I have purged a whole lot of stuff - see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Beer. It is all in other places. Please restore anything that really adds value to this article. Justinc 16:32, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Purge

message: Some mention should be made of the song "John Barleycorn" :)
DryGrain 17:06, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  The song "John Barleycorn" 

message: "Because beer is composed mainly of water, the source of the water and its characteristics have an important effect on the character of the beer." - the first clause of this sentence is somwhat misleading. The reason that water has a major effect on the taste of beer is that the mineral content of the water affects the chemistry of the mash tun. If you were to mash and boil, and then split the wort into two gyles, one of which was topped up with hard water and one with soft water, then the resulting beers would be pretty similar. If however, the two batches were mashed and boiled separately, one with hard water and one with soft water, then there would be a much more noticeable difference in taste.
MattF 08:49 Feb 19, 2003
: Some breweries, particularly microbreweries, go as far as to purify the water with reverse osmosis, and then adding minerals manually. This is used both to optimize flavor, and to emulate the water of various regions (for instance, emulating water from Plzen when making a Czech style pilsener). Maybe worth mentioning in the article? Kvan 11:00, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, the water source is much less important in beer-brewing than in liquor-distilling.  Obviously huge differences in hardness or a large amount of chlorine (which can inhibit yeast) in the water supply will influence brewing process, but the subtle water source variations are not going to shine through the malt and hop flavors in the finished product even in the lighter beers, certainly not the way they do in vodka, for instance.  It's worth noting that blind taste tests on bottled water have surprising results,--many tests have shown municipal water supplies preferred to even premium mineral or spring water brands.  In any event, most brewers--even craft or microbrewers--are content to simply pass tap water through an activated carbon filter once to remove chlorine and any obvious off-odors or flavors in the supply.  NTK 06:31, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The effect of different waters on the taste 

message: I can't help, but I wouldn't put the Oktoberfest under the term "holiday" as it is done in the text. Some may spend their holidays on it, but it is more like a fair or may be a volk festival. 
Oscar
I changed the reference to Oktoberfest to a reference to Märzen, because octoberfest is not a kind of beer. Märzen is a special beer made only for the Oktoberfest. Stefan
Maerzen is not really brewed specially for Oktoberfest, traditionally it was brewed in March, hence the name, and drunk all summer. When the weather began to cool at the end of September the remaining supplies were consumed in a festival that became Oktoberfest. In the US Maerzen is usually brewed all year and is for instance Gordon Beirsch's most popular beer Bob Palin 00:44, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oktoberfest 

message: There needs to be inclusion of Asian sources of beer especially Japan, 
which has its own style and strong history. Also the same can be said for the rest of Asia, South America, and Africa, whose South African Brewing controls quite a large portion of the beer market through its ownership of Miller, Morretti, and countless brands. Lets expand past parts of Europe, and two of the north american countries
:Agreed; for instance, Asahi beer has quite a following (I personally think it tastes a little too light). --Deathphoenix 20:16, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lack of coverage of Asian beer 

message: In the "Beer around the world" -section, there are mentioned Germany (which is known to
produce excellent beer), and France, Italy and Spain (which are famous for their wine, not beer). The list is lacking two of the most famous high-quality beer producing countries, that is, Belgium (known for strong monastery beer) and Czech Republic (known for pilsners, in particular Pilsner Urquell).
:No mention of Belgium or the Czech Republic is criminal. And Belgium is known for more than "strong monastery beer." They produce literally hundreds of styles. Only six breweries can produce official Trappist beer. Al 13:20, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Strange coverage of European beer 

message: I cut the statement in the Poland section that Tyskie "won a golden medal award in the London grand prix competition".   The Tyskie website  has sections on two different beers, but doesn't mention a specific award in relation to either of them. Markalexander100 05:52, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  No record of award 

message: "The lager brewed by these companies was not the extremely weak and mild lager now associated with modern US megabreweries." I've been wondering for a while whether this is truly historical or an apocryphal legend. We've all heard the story that beer was watered down for women during WWII  and never recovered. However, a good article  I came across on American Heritage seems to contradict that:
:"The beer served in the Beer and Whiskey League stadiums in spring 1882 was recognizably the American beverage we know today. Milder, lighter, and less bitter than older American ales or European beers, pale, effervescent, low in alcohol, and served very cold, it was a refreshment, meant to be drunk quickly. No longer part of the history of American nourishment, it was now part of the history of American entertainment."
There's some speculation that American beer tastes changed as a result of Prohibition; the near beer page briefly alludes to that theory.  I'll see if I can find anything to substantiate it. - jredmond 23:18, 10 Mar 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: The characterization of modern American beer as "history's saddest mistake" sounds a little POV to me.  Is this a generally-accepted opinion?  Surely there are sadder mistakes in history! --Wtshymanski 02:32, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Historical changes in the strength of American beer 

message: The Märzen article (a link I just made accersible by correcting the umlaut) names Maerzen beers that are not Octoberfest beers. So, what exactly differentiates a Maerzen from a Helles. (Being from Munich, I'm a bit embarrassed to ask this question, but I'm unsure myself.) Is it just the higher Stammwuerze content? And, BTW, what is the difference between a Helles and an Export. I always considered Export to be the South German breweries' way of translating Helles. Any examples for an Export proper? Simon A. 14:46, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Heck no. Stout is an ale. As is Porter. I think it is more accurate to say that ale provides a broader spectrum of colors and flavors from very dark to very light, from very rich to simply dancing on your tongue. You can call me Al 21:20, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Export, Maerzen

message: I'm a collector of beer bottles and an amateur beer lover (still need some experience ;-). After seeing this great article, I thought of making a WikiProject for all kinds and brands of beer with history (wich is often really interesting), flavors, formats, facts... Well, beer articles could have a very interesting amount of information and could be very interesting, in my opinion.
Well, it's not easy to drive a WikiProject if you have other things to do like studying, working, other projects and specially if you're not very used to Wikipedia like me. That's why I need some more people to found it. But, before that I'd like to know your impressions and your ideas.
I'd be very glad to give my best with it.
Cheers,
KeyStorm 18:59, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject ''Beers of the world''? 

message: A recent edit claims "Heineken is the world's second-largest brewer of beer."  However, both Heineken and SABMiller make that claim.  Anyone have data to back it up?  My money is on SABMiller, but Heineken's production volume is formidable.  Interbrew is also a contender
If I find anything on the web I'll do the update -- Kaszeta 14:02, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Largest Brewers 

message: The article is 45 kilobytes long, which I think shouldn't be the case with a featured article. Perhaps Beer and nationality could be moved to a separate article? Nikola 09:20, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: So if noone disagrees, I'd do it in a few days. Nikola 23:27, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree, however please change the title. The text is NOT about beer and nationality, but rather a desription of beers in various countries of the world. Scott Moore 12:18, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

text:  See my comments on beer project; I am splitting Beer and nationality into seperate articles. Justinc 14:18, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Length 

message: Recently, someone added,
:The average beer contains 4–6% alcohol, although alcohol content can be as low as 2% and as high as 20%+.
I was under the impression that the highest beer can get is around 12%, at which point the yeast can no longer survive.  Any extra alcohol has to be added in.  Does anyone know if this is true?  A minor point; it'd still be nice to know. --Sean κ. ⇔ 05:34, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I dont see any technical reason why it shouldnt get as strong as wine if you used wine yeasts (there is one Belgian beer refermented with champagne yests, but it is 12%, like Champagne). 20% seems rather high though. I cant remember what the strongest beer in the world is, I will look it up, they sell it in my local beer shop.Justinc 09:53, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  The highest that I've seen is about 10% (specifically barley wine), which requires the use of specialized yeast. Anything with a greater must be distilled, and I think then qualifies as a distilled beverage, and is no longer (I think) beer. – ClockworkSoul 13:30, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  More info, taken from the distilled beverage article: Beer and wine are limited to a maximum 15 percent alcohol, beyond which yeast is adversely affected and can not ferment.. – ClockworkSoul 13:32, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

text: The strongest beer in the world Samichlaus is 14%. I might write a little article on it... Justinc 13:36, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  there, read all about it... Justinc 13:45, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  There are actually stronger beers in existance -- Dogfish Brewery's 120 minute IPA is 21% ABV; Samuel Adams has also brewed some high alcohol specialty beverages. This was where my original "20%+" reference comes from; I think this is a minor quibble, however -- in most cases beer yeast will rarely ferment a beverage over 12-14%. --Soundwave106 13:32, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: That's odd... their website doesn't mention any special process.  It claims that they get the wort to 45 degree Plato... that's a 1.180 original gravity!!  I suppose that corresponds to 20% alcohol, if the final gravity dips below 1.020.  The question is how the hell to they get that to happen?  This is completely challanging my conceptions of the brewing process! (also, the beer has 120 IBU.. this is beginning to sound more like rubbing alcohol). —Sean κ. ⇔ 14:42, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It's actually not bad, but it's syrupy and thick, impossible to do anything but sip. Kind of like beery-hopped port, I guess. Scientifically, from poking around the Homebrew Digest, it seems like this may be possible based on the large amount of interest from brewers in high-gravity brewing (where you brew with a high wort concentration and then dilute the final product). There's a few references I've found: an old one ("Applied and Environmental Microbiology, Sept 1984, p 639-646, Vol 48, No 3., Casey, Magnus, Ingledew") plus some online papers ((1) (2) (3). I haven't coughed up the cash for these papers, or poked around further. But the industrial interest in high gravity brewing may explain how yeast tolerance has been pushed by modern craft brewers. Homebrew yeast supplier White Labs does have some more practical brewing information for their "super high gravity ale yeast" that they claim can go up to 25%, and how to get that yield. As an additional note, the keys seem to be in yeast nutrition and oxygen aeration; one can debate on how "natural" such techniques really are. --Soundwave106 20:05, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, from the looks of that White Labs website, you can get 25% by simply pushing the yeast to its limit.  Still, I suspect what you are doing is dramatically shortening the lifespan of a yeast cell, and giving it just enough time to reproduce before it keels over from alcohol poisoning.  Anyone here a biologist/professional brewer?  —Sean κ. ⇔ 20:29, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

text: The strongest an alcaholic drink can get without distilling it (getting rid of the water, basically concentratnig the alcohol) is about 12%. At least thats what I though, i can quite believe however that it can get up to 14% but not any higher. If there is a beer that is over that percentage then it has been distilled. The yeast get killed by the alcohol when it reaches about 11% thats why you cant get beer any higher as someone else rightly said. Borb 20:10, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

text: Probably more like 10% without pushing the yeast (traditional brewing), just a minor quibble :) Examples of all-malt styles that are high alcohol include doppelbock (7%-8% typically) and English / American barleywine (8-10%). Most of the imperial styles (e.g. imperial IPA, imperial stout) are also around 7-9% and are sometimes all-grain. I've homebrewed a 7% all malt doppelbock before (and it won a gold medal in the category, so I did *something* right :) ). Sugar is usually used to lighten the heavy nature of the all malt styles (Belgian dubbel / trippels are the best example) and I think above a certain ABV that really becomes important, if not for the process than for the taste. --Soundwave106 15:40, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The process used to obtain the Super High Gravity yeasts (now used in such beers as Dogfish Head's 120 Minute IPA (21% ABV) and World Wide Stout (18% ABV), and Samuel Adams Trippple Bock (21% ABV) and Utopia (25% ABV) basically involved a series of forced breeding over the course of 4-5 years.  The Samuel Adams brewers essentially continuously cultivated a batch of yeast in successively higher  original gravities (and, thus, successively higher ABV after fermentation).  The surviving yeasts of the last batch were pitched and cultivated in the next batch.  Similar to the principle of breeding dogs to attain a particular look, these yeasts were specifically bred to produce a high ABV tolerance.  Homebrewers can now buy these high-gravity, high-ABV-tolerance yeasts from online yeast suppliers. Extreme Unction 01:41, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

text: The "Strongest Beer in the World" has been recognized as the Samuel Adams Utopias, which is 25% ABV (50 proof). They're currently brewing 8,000 bottles of the limited-edition brew, which is packaged in a collectible brew-kettle shaped bottle reminiscent of the copper brewing kettles used by brewmasters for hundreds of years. Dr. Cash 18:42, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  How alcoholic can beer get? 

message: apart for the last catch all category, specialty beers, all these types are as far as I know traditional brewing methods. The only difference is that they're not pilsners. Anybody got a good reason to keep them?
Henna 23:48, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I personally would consider everything in the "mixed beers" category differences of *ingrediants* or *process*, not of the yeast. The master style is always determined by yeast type, either top-flocculating (ale) or bottom-flocculating (pilsner). "Hybrids" in fact may not be worth mentioning, as its usually just using a yeast in a non-traditional brewing process (e.g. California Common or "steam" beer, lager yeast fermented at near ale temperatures; alt beers or kolsch beers, ale yeast that is fermented with a cold-conditioning process). It's debateable whether we need to get this technical, at least without going off on the myriad of lager / ale styles. --Soundwave106 00:12, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Bottom-fermenting yeast is Lager yeast. Pilsner is a style of lager. Al 13:33, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  mixed beers 

message: The main picture on this page might cause some confusion. It is a pint of lager but it is a glass labelled Tetley's, which purports to be a bitter although I have another name for it. Jooler 11:42, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The caption says nothing about being a lager or an ale... can you tell just by looking at it? —Sean κ. ⇔ 16:57, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course. You must be an American, where all beer looks the same. The main point of what I said was that it is clearly not a pint of Tetley's Jooler 18:08, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

text: So now the picture has been replaced with something that could be washing up liquid in a glass. I'll have to take my own picture Jooler 17:12, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hey, I've just used what is available between en.wp and the commons;  if you have a better picture/caption, please feel free to replace it. Dewet 18:56, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Picture

message: Of course it's true that brewing is a large global business. However, this sentence by itself, without any mention of home or craft brewing or of brewpubs, might give the impression that beer is strictly big business, not a realm for hobbyists. Some mention of the popularity of microbrewing at least might be called for.
:Agreed, though I'd guess that all the microbrewers combined still represent a small fraction of the world's beer market.  --Robert Merkel 15:40, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  "The brewing industry is now a huge global business" 

message: What the heck is "Australasian"? I've never heard that term.
Aren't Australia and the Pacific Islands generally called "Oceania"? Al 15:59, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Australasia. ;)  --Veratien 00:06, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Australasian ?! 

message: As beer independently spread throughout the world and it fits the category description.  --Rakista 20:43, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added to World Cuisine Category 

message: Why no mention, in the history of the beers, of medieval monks?
:What would you like to say about medieval monks? --FOo 06:04, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Medieval Monks 

message: I would send that "regular glass of lager beer" (or whatever it said) back and get it topped up. Shouldn't the photo have a normal amount of head on? Slizor 16:49, August 29, 2005 (UTC)
:Yes, and its also not a 'regular mug' - I haven't seen that kind of glass in use for Lager -anywhere- in Europe I've been to... --Kiand 16:31, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  First photo 

message: *The opening paragraph mentioned that beer was made from fermenting starches which, as observed earlier in the talk page, is bogus.  Sugars ferment, not starches.  I've tried to make this a bit more clear. Extreme Unction 13:03, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Starch does not ferment, redux 

message: An anonymous user keeps trying to change the second paragraph to indicate that Syria is the birthplace of beer. Can anyone cite a source for that? You can call me Al 16:05, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I have also reverted one of the Syria edits.  It has the faint whiff of misguided nationalism about it.  Every brewing historian I'm aware of cites Sumeria and/or Egypt as the birthplace of beer.  Extreme Unction 17:35, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

text: From Michael Jackson's Beer Companion, "In the Museum Magazine of Archeology and Anthropology produced by the University of Pennsylvanis, Professor Solomon Katz in 1986 described as 'the world's oldest recipe' a series of tablets in the Sumerian language.  These early accounts, with pictograms of what is recognizably barley, show bread being baked, then crumbled into water to make a mash, which is then made into a drink that is recorded as having made people feel "exhilarated, wonderful and blissful."  The book also has an interesting theory that cultivating barley to make beer was the reason civilization started. Kidvicious 02:56, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Syria 

message: Excellent article but couldn't fathom this: "This is the same reaction as would happen if you found yourself with too much foam and used the oil from your brow to dissolve it."  --Tatty 10:26, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I was taught that as a kid with warmer cola that foamed too much after pouring. I would never do it with beer, though. --Elliskev 14:01, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oil from brow? 

message: We should try to use wording as simple as reasonably possible. Thus IMO:
"Drinking less than one drink in women and two drinking in men of alcohol is associated"
is better than
"Consumption of small quantities of alcohol (less than one drink in women and two in men) is associated"
Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 21:19, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: This is not simple English wikipedia. This article includes the word consume 5 times and mainstream sources like NYTimes and nydailynews use the phrasing. I'm not interested in discussing something so minor further, but I suggest you be less cavalier with your copyedits and use edit summaries.Dialectric (talk) 21:30, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: We should still be writing for a general audience and there was nothing wrong with that wording. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 22:40, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

text: The first option suggested is nonsense. Has User:Doc James been drinking? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:04, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: There are half drinks. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 20:32, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: What a relief. It's only half nonsense. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:48, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: The wording "Consumption of small quantities of alcohol (less than one drink in women and two in men) is associated..." is better as it avoids the ambiguity. The 'drinking.. in men.. of alcohol is..' structure of Doc James' wording is also pretty grammatically painful.Dialectric (talk) 20:53, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: There's no way I'd ever call that pretty. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:36, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Wording

message: 1.39.14.174 (talk) 07:06, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: as you have not requested a specific change in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".More importantly, you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 07:35, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 2 October 2015 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071027063059/http://www.beer-brewing.com/apex/beer_chapters/ch06_beer_adjuncts.htm to http://www.beer-brewing.com/apex/beer_chapters/ch06_beer_adjuncts.htm
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replies: text: These two are the same - combine links? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:43, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Problem Description: There is a redundant series of sentences in the article. Long strings of words are repeated verbatim in a close proximity to each other. 
Problem Area: The problem exists at the end of the second paragraph of the "Long-Term Effects" paragraph. 
Problem Excerpt:
    Alcoholism reduces a person's life expectancy by around ten years[162] and alcohol use is the third leading cause of early death in the United States.[158] No professional medical association recommends that people who are nondrinkers should start drinking wine.[158][163] A total of 3.3 million deaths (5.9% of all deaths) are believed to be due to alcohol.[164] Alcoholism often reduces a person's life expectancy by around ten years.[162] Alcohol use is the third leading cause of early death in the United States.[158]
Suggested Edit: As you have probably noticed after reading the above expert, the phrases "Alcoholism reduces a person's life expectancy by around ten years" and "alcohol use is the third leading cause of early death in the United States" are repeated. Although I leave the actual consolidation of the paragraph up to a more experienced editor, I suggest one of the occurrences of these phrases in question be removed. 
Proper Edit Request Format:
Please change the following
    Alcoholism reduces a person's life expectancy by around ten years[162] and alcohol use is the third leading cause of early death in the United States.[158] No professional medical association recommends that people who are nondrinkers should start drinking wine.[158][163] A total of 3.3 million deaths (5.9% of all deaths) are believed to be due to alcohol.[164] Alcoholism often reduces a person's life expectancy by around ten years.[162] Alcohol use is the third leading cause of early death in the United States.[158]
To the following (simply remove the last two sentences)
    Alcoholism reduces a person's life expectancy by around ten years[162] and alcohol use is the third leading cause of early death in the United States.[158] No professional medical association recommends that people who are nondrinkers should start drinking wine.[158][163] A total of 3.3 million deaths (5.9% of all deaths) are believed to be due to alcohol.[164]
Very Respectfully,
Brian Tracy (brian dot tracy thirty-three at gmail dot com)
Fix beer article (talk) 05:46, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. And, thank you. ChamithN (talk) 06:03, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 9 May 2016 

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replies: text: Second archive link works but not useful, hopsteiner.com link no longer finds page. First archive link seem to work. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:42, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified