Talk:Bob Jones University/Archive 3

message: I've paraphrased the rules section in my own words and added it back in.  If there is a problem, let me know on my talk page. --Viriditas  | Talk 22:57, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rules 

message: Whoever just "wikified" this page is including links to things such as "shoes." Umm...do you really expect someone to come to this page and not know what shoes are? Very pointless if you ask me. Iamblueman4 21:59, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikify = Totally Pointless 

message: I searched their home page, but couldn't find anything to verify that Chiang Kai-Shek had anything to do with the university. C/D? 24.18.243.211 
:On the contrary, Chiang seems to have had plenty to do with Bob Jones. He was a friend of Jones (both were Methodists) and according to a dubious source was one of the founding trustess of the university.  While I haven't searched long enough to find a source that exactly says he got an honorary degree, it is not unreasonable. -Willmcw 06:09, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I searched for about 10 minutes and couldn't find anything. --Viriditas  | Talk 08:40, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Does Wikipedia count as a source? Chiang Kai-shek#Presidency in Taiwan. -Willmcw 09:25, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, I wasn't clear.  I meant that I couldn't find any sources other than Wikipedia, which doesn't help verification attempts. --Viriditas  | Talk 09:37, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chiang Kai-Shek 

message: Looking over the USDE site, recognized agencies are broken down into two cats: national and regional.  The regional bodies accredit the comprehensive colleges and universities.  But the national bodies accredit specialized programs (e.g. American Bar Association reviews law schools).  Transnational is on the reocgnized list of nationals.  But I'm not sure how limited their scope is because their site doesn't seem forthcoming.
lots of issues  | leave me a message 12:44, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Accreditation 

message: I've removed Katherine Helmond from the list of alumni. The source  cited for her being alumni says only that she was in a bible movie produced by BJU, not that she's a graduate. As Helmond is a Catholic and comes from Irish Catholic stock (thus not a convert) it's difficult to see how she could have enrolled in BJU in the 1940s, let alone graduate. Homey 02:33, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Katherine Helmond

message: *Bob Jones University also hosts a yearly high school tournament for Christian High Schools across the nation.
This line would be more helpful if we knew what kind of tournament this is. Sports? Chess? Debating? -Will Beback 00:23, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: From memory it is a range of sports, such as basketball etc... And could very well include other "sports" such as chess and debating (I think debating was one of them, but my memory isn't sure.) There should be a mention of all this somewhere on their website. Mathmo 23:57, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tournament 

message: Wcover said in a recent edit summary that Bob Jones was accredited last year.   Could someone please provide a source for this?  This is something that, from the looks of things, we've been debating for a while. --Idont Havaname (Talk) 04:01, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: BJU applied for it last year, but it can take several years for it to come into effect.  At this time, BJU is not officially accredited.  5 April 2006
BJU has been granted candidate status by TRACS which is a temporary designation on the way to full accreditation. Armchair Potentate 00:16, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Accredited last year? 

message: Alpha Omega Delta has an article. Isn't it just one of a dozen or so "literary societies" on campus? Perhaps it would be better to have one article describing all of them. They are minimally notable, and verifiable sources are very few. Further, it seems POV to have an article about only one. Though one may be older than the others, or more prestigious, to be encyclopedic it's better to give some coverage to all. -Will Beback 00:31, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clubs 

message: As an enthusiast of religious art, I can say with a good deal of certainty that the museum at BJU does not possess one of "largest collections of religious art in the western hemisphere."  I know that this is what the museum's website claims, but it is false.
This should ostensibly stand out to browsers.  How could an unaccredited, very new college like BJU possess such a collection?  This statement is blatantly false.
Also, after doing some research, I could not find any evidence that corroborates the statement that BJU was accredited last year.  As far as I know, the school is still unaccredited.
Heyhey 06:32, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Art Gallery 

message: The accreditation of BJU is just as I've written.  TRACS is "recognized by both the United States Department of Education, and the Council for Higher Education Accreditation, as a national accrediting body for Christian institutions, colleges, universities, and seminaries."  That means if you graduate from school accredited by TRACS (or a school that has candidate status, as does BJU), your credits will be accepted by the federal government, say if you want to join the FBI or become a nurse in the Navy.  However, BJU is not accredited--nor could be--by the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools (SACS), which is the "regional" accreditation that most people mean when they say "accreditation." 
John Foxe 20:16, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Accreditation

message: I'm not sure how you'd get a written source for the number of minorities or interracial couples at BJU.  The University doesn't keep records.  With no tax exemption, they don't have to.  My suggestion is to walk the campus and go to the university food service.  You'll hear Spanish and Korean spoken for sure and probably see some interracial couples.  The in-coming student body president is a black guy from Chicago. (A curiosity: a campus supervisor had an Asian wife--a faculty member--and biracial children before the interracial dating rule was recinded in 2000.) 
John Foxe 10:19, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Minorities at BJU

message: Although the term "African American" sounds dignified and neutral, the term is not inclusive enough.  BJU discriminated against all people of African descent, including those from Africa, where many BJU graduates were serving as missionaries. As in all such discriminatory schemes, there were awkward problems about what race was about, and there were some very dark BJU students in the 1950s and '60s--just none of African descent (as least as far as anyone could tell).John Foxe 16:11, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair point. Thanks for the clarification. Rillian 16:14, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "African Americans"

message: They thought it was offensive. It wasn't. All I was saying that I'd rather have Martin Luter over John Foxe any day. It possibly was in the wrong section and on the wrong page, but it was stridently argued not offensive.
:I deleted it because it was a comment about a user, rather than about the article. Please discuss the edits, not the editors. If you do need to make a comment about a user, it's best to do so on their user talk page. -Will Beback 22:01, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Someone deleted my comment 

message: I've removed this (several times) for two reasons.
1. It's repetitve and covered under Student Rules.
2. The incident mentioned (but not cited as it is later) was basically a gimmick, a political ploy to embarrass the University as it was attempting (successfully, it turned out) to extract hospitality tax funds for the Museum & Gallery from the Greenville City Council. Now that the M&G has its tax money, nothing more has been heard from this fellow. BJU is a decent sized place.  Obviously the only way in which a homosexual alumnus could be identified and removed from the campus is if he dramatically self-declared himself--like maybe wearing a rainbow t-shirt with the words "Gay and Proud/BJU Class of 1960" or some such thing.
John Foxe 15:04, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The text in this section is also a direct plagiarism from this site (or rather, from the AP Wire, reproduced at this site): http://www.skeptictank.org/hs/gyhtb15.htm-- Omicronpersei8 06:08, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Homosexuality and Other Sexual Conduct 

message: Before the abitrator weighs in, I have this to say to John Foxe and this is my final post here:
1) This argument got needlessly out of hand, and I'm sorry for my part in that.  This issue is far too trivial to have come to this.
2) I apologize for attacking you personally.  After you accused me of trying to drive you away, I decided to draw blood too.  That was foolish.
3) I think your research on the Cyclops vs. Dragon issue is pretty conclusive. You sold me. (And the Alabama state archives.)
4) In your response to the arbitration, you made an excellent argument as to why "two-term governor" should come before "Exalted Cyclops."  Nixon, you said, would be noted as a two-term president before any mention of Watergate conspirator. Damned good point. I still think the neutral compromise language should prevail with the KKK info coming first, but your argument is very compelling.
5) As a debater you are a worthy opponent and not a lightweight.
6) I imagine that your position during this dispute stems from the fact that you are trying to protect the school from attacks from people with a
grudge.  I respect that, although I disagree with you and think the school deserves to be haunted by Grand Dragons and such.
7) Finally, I apologize if I, an agnostic, have offended you in this post by behaving in a Christian manner.  But somebody had to do it!  (That's just to needle you a little bit, not to insult you.  I meant everything I said above.)
8)  AND I'M GOING TO SIGN THE DAMN POST!! -- NOBOJO —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.29.145.154 (talk • contribs) 18:58, 15 July 2006
:::I appreciate your comments, Nobojo, and certainly accept your apology.  There are few things more satisfying than having someone say, “You know, you’ve made a decent point there.”
:::Fear not, BJU will continue to be “haunted by Grand Dragons and such” well into the future--not the literal KKK sort, but the fallout from nearly four decades of decisions the Joneses made about racial policy between the time local segregation laws were ruled unconstitutional in Peterson v. City of Greenville, 373 U.S. 244 (1963) and the abandonment of the "no inter-racial dating" rule in 2000.
:::--John Foxe 18:51, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: And Now For Something Completely Different

message: *Edward M. Panosian (b. 1930), taught the required History of Civilization course to generations of BJU students, perhaps more than half of all who ever attended the University.
Why is this person considered notable? The lists of notable faculty alumni, etc have grown quite long, and the claims of notability are increasingly dubious. The general standard of notability on Wikipedia is having an article. I'm sure that some folks without articles should have them. Howver those without articles, or who do not qualify for an article, should be removed. -Will Beback 05:19, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, and he has been removed. John Foxe 00:40, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notablility 

message: Paragraph 2, sentence 1 seems out of place, although perhaps it has more significance to Southerners: "Almost from the inception of Bob Jones College, a majority of students and faculty were northerners." Either way, it doesn't relate to the rest of the paragraph - unless the Republican shift was influenced by northerners? I think it would be better with something to the effect of "BJU was involved with the shifting allegiances between Democrats and Republicans in the south during the 1960s" but I left the current sentence in case I'm missing something. Moulder 04:01, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Because the majority of the BJU student body and especially the faculty were not southerners, they tended to be Republicans in the 1950s and early '60s when South Carolina was solidly Democratic. When Republicans came to be more than a curiousity in Greenville during the 1960s, it was easy for BJU staff members to take positions of responsibility in organizing the local party.  So, yes, the shift to the Republican party in Greenville was eased by the large number of "Yankees" (mostly midwesterners, actually) at BJU. John Foxe 10:43, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Political controversy section 

message: "BJU" redirects here, but it may also refer to the British Journal of Urology.  - Stormwatch 23:34, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I notice, however, that the official name of the journal is British Journal of Urology International and its web address is bjui.org.  Perhaps only a urologist could tell us for sure whether there is true ambiguity here.  --John Foxe 17:35, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disambiguation needed