Talk:Neurodevelopmental disorder

message: Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) is a subset of Neurodevelopmental Disorders (ND).  PDD (or Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD)) is not the same as a Neurodevelopmental Disorder (ND) which also includes genetic-based disorders (such as Down Syndrome or Williams Syndrome), learning/cognitive disorders (such as Learning Disorders (LD) or Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD)), as well as environmentally induced disorders (such as Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS) or Lead Poisoning).  Please do <not> lump ND as a kind of PDD.  ND is the superorderinate category underwhich PDD is typically placed.
Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Theguyinblue (talk • contribs) 
I agree.  mixing PDD and other neurodevolopmental disorders is like saying schizophrenia is the same as depression.
In both case, we have no clear idea of the causes of the disorders, a battle raging between experts as to know wether it's genetic or environmental, or both and to what degree. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Supernova 6969 (talk • contribs) 
Can you include the Neurodiverse angle in these 'arguments' please?  They have all been written from a medical angle and blame those with the conditions on society rather than the other way round. The constant use of 'disorder' suggests that the world is ruled my neurotypicals and needs to be balanced. AsparagusTips (talk) 07:19, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments

message: :...physical and emotional burdens to individuals, families, and society. Therefore, research into the pathogenesis and treatment of these disorders, aimed at the cure and amelioration of their effects on individuals, families, and society, is of considerable importance."  University of North Carolina.  
There is a quote at the end of the text here with no opening quote I can see. Further, the link is dead, so I am going to zap it for now. --DanielCD 19:23, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Broken link

message: I'm having trouble coming up with a suitably referenced definition/classification scheme, otherwise I've made a start on the other points. I've tried to winnow out more of the fringe stuff but probably need another viewpoint at this time. (Article is roughly twice the length as when you put up these points). I thought about a section on diagnosis and evaluation, but that would drift more toward neuropsychological evaluation technobabble. There is enough of that already.Trilobitealive (talk) 03:36, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Feedback for initial bullet points

message: The section deletion of Cultural and historical information: was by me, done at work on an office computer which sometimes kicks me off the Wikipedia logon. I think that this section needs expansion and re-inclusion once it can be made to not violate WP:DUE but that is for another day.Trilobitealive (talk) 17:02, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Section deletion note

message: Coming along very well!  Excellent progress.  Some suggestions: 
*I would definitely keep working on hammering down the definition.  The first two sentences seem to offer two different definitions.  
*caregivers can ameliorate blindness-related sensory deprivation,[15] leading to positive neurodevelopmental outcomes, as in the cases of author Helen Keller[16] and musicians Arthel "Doc" Watson[17] and Ray Charles. - What did the parents do in these cases?  What happened with these people? 
*In the child juvenile diabetes can produce neurodevelopmental damage by the effects of excessive glucose. The problems continue and may worsen throughout childhood if the diabetes is not well controlled. - What does the glucose do?  What types of symptoms does it cause? 
*Short (one- or two-sentence) paragraphs are discouraged.  Check out User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a].  
*I would discuss Inborn error of metabolism further under Metabolic disorders. 
*References should have publisher, author, date, title, (and accessdate if it's a website, but journal sites don't need accessdates).  PDFs should have format=pdf in the cite template.  See Template:cite journal for example.  
*Article titles are not in caps (Except for the first letter, letters after periods or colons, and proper nouns).  
*I'm not sure this is a reliable source: http://www.uniquekidssurvey.com/index.html The best sources are textbooks from reliable, well-known publishers and journal articles (see WP:MEDRS).  Wiki articles cannot be used as sources.  Most sources look good.  
*Does fetal alcohol syndrome belong under Nutrition? Maybe a separate section for, uh, insults during pregnancy?  
*I don't think obstruction of the trachea is the right definition for asphyxia -- I think it has to do with an extreme deficiency in O2. 
*The trauma section is covering more than just trauma--trauma is used to mean mechanical forces usually (e.g. TBI only refers to injury by mechanical force).  The umbrella term is acquired brain injury, which covers hypoxia, stroke, etc.  Maybe "Brain injury" as a title for this subheading? 
*I think the trauma section goes into too much detail about epidemiology and not enough about the effects of brain trauma on youngsters.  It's not clear that these stats are specific to kids (do neurodevelopmental disorders occur in adults too?) and they're US-specific stats, which don't give a worldwide view (but believe me, I'm familiar with the difficulty in getting epidemiology info for countries that aren't the US).  
*Citation needed: Arguably the most well known environmental toxic cause of neurodevelopmental disorders is heavy metal poisoning; the classic 20th century example is Minamata disease. 
Overall, it's coming along great, it's certainly a lot farther along than when I last looked at it!  I think the biggest thing to focus on would be nailing down that definition; the reader gets a good idea of the variety of things that can cause the disorders, but only a fuzzy idea of what they are.  A classification section would be good if possible, and also sections that cover common features of each (e.g. "Diagnosis", "Treatment").  These would have to be vague, but they could cover common techniques and give a better idea of what these disorders have in common with one another. Other suggestions are in WP:MEDMOS. delldot talk 00:37, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  More suggestions 

message: What happened to the autism spectrum page?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.232.93.212 (talk) 16:21, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It looks to me like he made the comment that he would like to change the article then when no one spoke up for a few days he changed it. I'm planning on doing the same thing elsewhere (see Talk:Not-for-profit corporation) after I've allowed my warning to sit for a few more weeks. But the place for such discussion is on Talk:Autism spectrum, don't you think?Trilobitealive (talk) 23:00, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Autism spectrum page

message: Does this article cover the ICD Q00-Q07? And if yes, maybe some infobox should be added, or it should be otherwise somehow mentioned? --CopperKettle 09:37, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm completely unfamiliar with ICD, but yes, following your link, that's the range of things this article covers. Looie496 (talk) 17:30, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox with ICD index?

message: I've been building a page loosely organized on Smith's Recognizable Patterns of Malformation (It's roughed out on my Talk page)  and was wondering how I could "interface" with this article.  This is a very nicely written article, but my strengths are in list-building, especially with regards to developmental medicine.  Any ideas?doctorwolfie (talk) 12:55, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Is anybody watching?

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thread_title: File:Kokuvi with microcephaly at the Volta School for the Mentally Challenged.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: So why do I find this article moved from Neurodevelopmental disorder to Neurodevelopmental condition with no warning, no discussion and no consensus? Trilobitealive (talk) 18:18, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: At this point another editor has moved the page back to  where it belongs. I've noted my complaint on User talk:Quinser's and have filed a complaint at  Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism since it appears to me that User:Quinser's may be vandalizing more than just this page.Trilobitealive (talk) 18:48, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sorry, I should have written it here, but it was me. My standpoint is that all Quinser's moves get reverted, and thereafter, Quincer's can start a discussion about moving the article here on the talk page, and try to get consensus.  Lova Falk talk 18:57, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I was looking for a random article to edit and ran across this one, but I would like to know why any genetic disorder is included on a page about Neurodevelopmental disorder. I would like to seek a consensus on removing that from the page, and also on WP I see that new users edits are often reverted and I don't want to do a lot of work and that happens. What do I need to know to edit this page? I see that better references are needed, but what else?AlF6Na3 (talk) 17:11, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nerodevelopmental disorder versus condition? 

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thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018) 

message: I undid a change where the entire en.wiki article was changed to Spanish. I can't see if this has been done before, but perhaps the author who made the change could explain why this was done. Is there a need for article protection?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Piers39293 (talk • contribs) 08:42, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism? 

message: The wording is weird mainly the usage of "includes"( the verb to include) does not necessarily mean we have exhausted all known and researched items as such is not a thorough list at all it is a very poor work.  currently considered neurodevelopmental are definetely of one of these types; Does not mean we are wrong. Currently at the present level of medical science and research there are not any more known. These are the only types. Tomorrow some researcher might find something new we are not at fault we are not wrong. For someone reading an encyclopedia the writers should really put more effort to exhaust any and all research published in the medical science and related fields.Ntoulinho (talk) 04:18, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Types 

message: I agree, there is no real medical or scientific research to support this article. Autism and ADHD has nothing to do neurodevelopment disorders. Simply put this article should be scrubbed as it has the potential to misinform an enormous public and new generation of wellness advisors to the abilities or disabilities of at least 20% of the worlds population.
It also misinforms to what actual neurodevelopment disorders are and the potential people with these disorders truly have. 
There has got to be a better system in place for actual facts verses public opinion on Wikipedia as the sad fact is you now carry a greater responsibility of the real well researched encyclopedias of yore. 86.31.122.93 (talk) 03:52, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Every reliable source classifies Autism and ADHD as a neurodevelopmental disorder, what are you talking about?--Megaman en m (talk) 06:37, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  No basis for this article 

message: Currently the "Types" section states that "According to the DSM V, the neurodevelopmental disorders include the following:" 
Firstly, it should be DSM-5 by convention (we use Roman numerals for the first through fourth editions, Arabic numerals from the fifth edition onwards). 
Secondly, the eleventh type listened is OCD, which does not even appear in the cited source at all, nor is it classified as a neurodevelopmental disorder in the DSM-5. 
I am unsure what other inaccuracies there are, but the DSM-5 chapter on neurodevelopmental disorders contains the following groups of disorders: Intellectual disabilities; Communication disorders; Autism spectrum disorder; ADHD; Specific learning disorder; Motor disorders. There is no mention at all of things like OCD or fragile X syndrome in this chapter. Obsessive-compulsive and related disorders have their own chapter. It is also worth noting that the DSM-5 chapters are in a logical order (e.g. they state that the chapter on bipolar-type disorders is between the chapters on psychotic disorders and mood disorders to represent its theoretical position between those groups) and the obsessive-compulsive and related disorders do not come immediately after the neurodevelopmental disorders, so the DSM-5 does not even hint at there being a relationship between these groups, let alone OCD being a neurodevelopmental disorder itself.
I shall remove OCD from this list but am unsure how to go about fixing this section so will not make any further edits without more discussion. Anditres (talk) 22:34, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Types at present