Talk:Dr. Strangelove/Archive 1

message: I had put Kissinger in as a model for Strangelove,  but a couple of Strangelove web sites said both Sellers and Kubrick had denied it, saying that von Braun's persona was the only one, although Herman Kahn's ideas were all through it.  The web site cited for the Weegee story is the only one that I could find that even mentioned that Weegee had an accident, so it could be so.  Left it in.  Ortolan88
:Kissinger wasn't well known at the time, so it seems unlikely that he would be a model. I have heard that John v. Neumann was, though.
Disputed sentence:
:The only person who can save the world is Dr. Strangelove, the former Nazi who heads the U.S. weapons research program. 
I watched the film over Labor Day weekend and again last week. I don't recall anything about Stangelove having the ability to save the world. However, Captain Mandrake is focussed on little other than transmitting the recall code that will stop the US bombers from attacking Russia.
Is it possible that with the multiple roles Sellers played, we have confused which incarnation of Sellers was which? --Ed Poor
:Great catch!  I didn't write that, but I read it so many times without noticing.  In a sense, Mandrake is the person who can save the world in terms of the plot of the movie, while Dr. Strangelove is put forward, ironically, as the only person who can save the world politically.  Ortolan88
::If I recall correctly, Strangelove suggests that with ten women for each men, it would be the, um, pleasant duty of men who survived Armageddon to repopulate the world -- thus saving the human race from extinction. --Ed Poor
:Hence the word "ironically".  Recall Sen. Richard B. Russell's assertion:  "If only one boy and girl are left alive after an atomic war, I want that boy and girl to be Americans."Ortolan88
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General Ripper's plan is foiled--at first--but one B-52 ("The Leper Colony") can't be called back and is heading in to drop the one nuclear bomb that will set off the doomsday machine. The only person who can save the world is Group Captain Lionel Mandrake, the British exchange officer who discovers the recall code.
Now, wait a second.  I admit I haven't seen the movie in a while, but this summary seems chronologically backwards.  As I remember it, the sequence of events is: a) the General's death, b) discovery and broadcasting of the recall code, which stops most of the bombers, then c) realization that the last bomber isn't responding to the code.  Once it's discovered that the last B-52 won't respond to the code, there's nothing Mandrake can do about it anymore.  To point out that the last bomber can't be stopped, and subsequently imply that Mandrake can do something about it seems bass ackwards.  Am I incorrect? Dachshund
No that's it.
:Sounds right, but Mandrake not only discovered the code, but also discovered the radio and figured out that the general was lying.  Maybe it should say "Mandrake only  could have saved the world". Ortolan88
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Surely 'Dmitri' is spelt Demetrius? (with the us silent) -Adrian
:Unfortunately, we don't hear Kissoff himself, so he's not credited on the IMDb.  But if you google '"dr. strangelove" kissoff' you'll see that in the first 3 pages it's all "Dmitri."  --KQ
:For what it matters, the DVD English subtitle spells it "Dimitri" Ash Lux 4 July 2005 05:17 (UTC)
::The novelization which came out at the same time as the movie also spells it "Dimitri". Wahkeenah 4 July 2005 10:22 (UTC)
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Obviously in the movie the only one who could have saved the world by he's own choice is the pilot of the b-52 that droped the bomb :-)
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The one thing that comes to mind when thinking about this movie is a man riding a falling atom bomb, but no notion of this is made here. Am I mistaken or is this powerful image indeed connected to this movie?
: yes, it's one of the final scenes of the film. -- Tarquin
::Well, the final scene.  Added explicitly to article.
I'm going to move this to the IMDB Title "Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb"
Damn I made a mistake and moved the talk page, can someone please fix Mintguy
Surely, in the name of common sense, the move ought to be to just plain "Dr Strangelove"? Tannin
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I've always thought Dr Strangelove wasn't nearly as funny or clever as it thinks it is. Most of the jokes appear to have been crudely tacked onto the original thriller plot, the British, Germans and Russians - and the Americans, I guess - are all crudely stereotyped, and all of the characters have stupid "funny" names. Maybe these points should be discussed in the article. Lee M
:Done --Lee M
::Shouldn't there be more sources than just Lee M's feelings about this reaction to the movie before his paragraph becomes etched in stone. I have read many articles and books about this film and have never encountered the term crude applied to it by anyone else. It seems to be pushing the edge of wiki NPOV to have it in the article when it is better suited to these discussion pages. Just a thought, I could be wrong. MarnetteD | Talk 22:08, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Major Kong was intended to be Sellers' fourth role, but he was uncertain about the cowboy accent. Pickens, a character actor from westerns, was brought in by Kubrick, who reportedly didn't tell him the film was a comedy. Pickens' patriotic speeches to his crew (and his promises of promotion and medals) are counterpoint to the desperate American efforts to recall the flight.
Unless someone can find an unpublished autobiography by Slim Pickens himself it's unlikely that we will know for sure but his acting does seem to have an earnestness not present in the other characters. Perhaps the phrase should be softened to indicate uncertainty. Meanwhile, why is 170.140.79.13 removing the perfectly justified remark about characters as metaphors? Dbiv 21:48, 10 May 2004 (UTC)

text: Or one could ask James Earl Jones who appeared in the bomber with Slim Pickens to see if he knew they were in a comedy or if he knew Pickens knew. Jones, as one of the few actors in the bomber scenes with Pickens might have the best recollection. --SeanO 00:10, May 11, 2004 (UTC)
I did read in a book about war movies that Slim Pickens didn't know they were in a comedy and so he played the role straight forward. I'll let you know what book it is just as soon as I can.
I think that on the DVD they said Sellers was pulled from the bomber pilot character simply because he had an on-set accident that made working in the close-quarters of the bomber set uncomfortable.  Someone might want to check on that. Wahkeenah 21:15, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

message: I made a few changes to themes, partly based on my recent viewing of The Making of Dr. Strangelove, available on the special edition DVD, just released, partly based on my own research (Ph.D. student in history, post-1945 Am history).
I corrected an assertion made about the doomsday machine.  It was a concept created by Herman Kahn, check On Thermonuclear War, and was meant to mock MAD, but was taken seriously as an idea.  Kahn was a curious figure, as he felt his was the morally superior position, but talked in numbers and graphs and so gained a reputation as a monster.  Also, MAD worked remarkably well as you can see...we didn't blow ourselves up.  So, that's the origin of the doomsday machine--any other said origin is a myth, though the idea itself certainly took off.  I've done a lot of research on Kahn, and the DVD Making of mentioned the importance of On Thermonuclear War in the early writing.  Kubrick emphasized to his original writing partner (I think it was James B. Harris) Kahn's work.
Until I watched the Making of, I did not know how much Sellers improvised--for instance, the Nazi salute.  However, the Nazi scientist critique has been out there for a while and is worth mentioning, which is why I added a paragraph.  
I think much more needs to be added to the sex paragraph.  For instance, the names?  Buck Turgidson?  Muffley (female genitalia...see http://www.worldwidewords.org/articles/merkin.htm)  Jack D. Ripper? Ambassador de Sadesky (Marquis de Sade)? I mean they are just begging for it.  The movie is suffused with sex.  You only briefly mention Ripper's "impotence."  But it's much more odd than that...he talks about withholding his essence.  So many fluids are discussed in that little room.  By the way fluoridation of the water really did scare people when cities started doing it.  
There's Turgidson talking to his mistress in the war room, the condom in the supply kit and so forth...and of course what does this lead up to?  riding the phallic missile with atomic bomb?  What is the critique here?  This is a male directed war, a pissing match of sorts that has the highest stakes.
--Dounia 08:29, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I also disagree with the bit in the article about Ripper's "impotence."  I interpreted his speech about this as meaning that he sleeps with many women but pulls out before ejaculating.  Regarding sex in the film, names & more are also discussed at . 70.17.202.12 01:35, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  new edits 

message: "Despite its undeniable classic status, the film is not without its detractors." Is this statement significant without some mention made of those detractors? I read that waiting to hear what specifically the criticisms are, but it just ends there. Without something more said I dont see this sentence as useful at all. I mean, no film has 100% approval rating; they all have some detractors. -R. fiend 05:24, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed the sentence. It basically said "not everyone likes the movie" (well duh!). If someone wants to add some specific widely held criticisms please do, but without them the sentence is useless. -R. fiend 17:58, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Detractors

message: Get a picture of Kong riding the bomb.- B-101 18:02, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Done! Dr. Cash 03:06, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: picture