Talk:Jon Christos

message: What evidence is there for Christos singing  "leading operatic roles at home and abroad in operas such as Puccini's La Boheme, Mozart's The Magic Flute, Janacek's Jenufa, Britten's Albert Herring, Puccini's Tosca, The Barber of Seville at the . . . Aix-en-Provence music festival" ? Searching the site results in 'no result'.  --Kleinzach (talk) 03:30, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The following is taken from the jonchristos.com website almost-instinct 12:18, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: With all due respect I don't think that answers my question. It doesn't tell us what he was doing at the (important) Aix-en-Provence music festival. --Kleinzach 14:53, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, I should have put in a new heading, it wasn't supposed to be an attempted reply: I merely put it in to contrast with the main page. But for an answer, see below: "Count Almaviva in the college's staging of Rossini's Barber of Seville at the Aix-en-Provence Festival". I think that clears it up? almost-instinct 15:21, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes I think it does. Student production not a festival production, so presumably non notable. --Kleinzach 15:25, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Aix-en-Provence Festival]]

message: see also:
John Christodoulou, John Marsden, and Alexander Grove met at The Royal Northern College of Music (RNCM), Manchester. John Christodoulou was born in Salford and started his musical education as a Cathedral Chorister and pupil of Manchester’s Chetham’s School of Music at the age of 8.
Who Are Tenori?Tenori began in 2003 with John Christodoulou (now John Christos), Alexander Grove and John Marsden who met at the Royal Northern College of Music (RNCM) Manchester
JOHN CHRISTODOULOU was educated at Chetham's School of Music. In 1994 he entered the RNCM and won the James Martin Oncken Song Prize in his second year. He has appeared in many college opera productions and took the part of Count Almaviva in the College's production of Rossini's Barber of Seville at the Aix en Provence Festival. In 1996 he made his Manchester Bridgewater Hall debut in Berlioz's L'Enfance du Christ under Kent Nagano and he was also a soloist in under Nagano in the world premiere of the original version of Mahler's Das klagende Lied. He appears regularly on the oratorio and concert platforms and broadcasts with the BBC Daily Service Singers.
She will be joined on stage by another graduate of the Royal Northern College of Music, the Manchester-born tenor John Christodoulou. In 1998 he performed the role of Mr Upfold in the RNCM's production of Britten's Albert Herring and that of Count Almaviva in the college's staging of Rossini's Barber of Seville at the Aix-en-Provence Festival. John Christodoulou also took the role of Steva in the RNCM's production of Janacek's Jenufa and the part of Ernesto in Donizetti's Don Pasquale for Clonter Opera. This summer he has performed Sesto in Handel's Giulio Cesare for the Yorke Trust in Norfolk.
Tamino:  John Christodoulou
Pamina:  Charlotte Ellett
Sarastro:  Mark Ashmore
Queen of the Night:  Rachel Luxon
Papageno:  Toby Stafford-Allen
Monostatos:  Mark Kandall
Speaker:  Darren Jeffrey
Papagena:  Lucy Bates
Three Ladies:  Anthea Kempston, Imogen Garner and a substitute
3rd Lady whose name I've lost
Director:  Stefan Janski
Designer:  Christopher Woods
Lighting:  Philip L Edwards
Royal Northern College Chorus and Orchestra
Conductor:  Timothy Reynish
...Modified rapture for Christodoulou, whose voice seemed alternately too big (middle register) and too small (upper register) for Tamino, though he cut a dignified figure and sounded fine in ensembles almost-instinct 10:56, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you. These are all student performances, aren't they? --Kleinzach 14:59, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I guess so. Excepting "In 1996 he made his Manchester Bridgewater Hall debut in Berlioz's L'Enfance du Christ under Kent Nagano and he was also a soloist in under Nagano in the world premiere of the original version of Mahler's Das klagende Lied" I would have thought almost-instinct 15:24, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, another exception: "Each year Clonter Opera auditions young singers at music colleges around the UK, and also holds auditions for singers who have recently embarked on professional careers. Most singers who take part in the opera studios are under 30. They are treated as professionals, rather than as students." almost-instinct 15:28, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: further refs

message: This source conflicts with a source we have about roles sung at RNCM. This is the cast list from a review of Jenufa:
Jenufa:  Gabriella Lambert-Olsson
Kostelnicka:  Claire Weston
Laca:  Luis Rogruguez-Chapa
Steva:  Roberto Garcia-Lopez
Grandmother:  Jessica Greaves
Jano:  Sarah Tynan
Foreman (Starek):  Simon Bailey
Barena:  Lucy Bates
Karolka:  Victoria Joyce
Mayor:  Julian Close
Mayor's Wife:  Mai-Lung Pun
Maid:  Ruth Trawford
Aunt:  Shelley Coulter-Smith
This one seems a more objective report almost-instinct 16:51, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conflicting sources 

message: The source allaboutmanchester includes this quote: "He managed to finish his training in Manchester and then went on to take leading roles at home and abroad in operas such as Puccini's La Boheme, Mozart's The Magic Flute, and Janacek's Jenufa among many others". The source quoted immediately before (and others) show that this statement is incorrect: firstly these roles were taken at the RNCM, not "after finishing his training", and secondly the quote in the section above contradicts the claim that he sang in Jenufa. This shows that the allaboutmanachester interviewer happily repeated the supposed facts included in Christos' promotional material without checking facts independently. How can we consider it to be a reliable source?! almost-instinct 22:22, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Copied in from my talk page:I feel you are now questioning the integrity of the artist, the reporter and the website concerned, this is totally unacceptable. Obviously the RNCM won't make every cast list of every production ever made on the internet, so you have no reason to assume facts shown are incorrect. Do you really expect an artists every single performance throughout their life to be given a citation, surely not? I am therefore leaving the source as it is,  anyone is perfectly entitled to edit the page, let's see if they do. Alfshire 11:29, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

text: Please do not blank this talk page. Alfshire, I really think you are having conflict of interest problems here. I understand the artist is a friend of yours, but when an objective source (ie the above cast list in a review of the RCNM Jenufa) contradicts the claims of the artist or his promotional representatives it is our duty to question. Sloppy journalism is scarcely unheard of in this world, esp. in a puff piece. In answer to your question: no, not every performance needs citing, but all of those notable enough to be mentioned in an encylopedia's article does need citing. (We should not be aiming to record every performance.) Finally, please post your replies here, where everyone can see them, rather than on my talk page. Thank you, almost-instinct 21:15, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

text: IMO: I would say that when adding details of concerts, think: how does this add to a reader's understanding of the subject? To make up an example: if there was a sentence saying "in July 2007 he performed at four sporting occasions, including singing during half-time at the xxxx match", subsequently adding details about a fifth performance at a sporting occasion in August 2007 wouldn't achieve much. Much better just to amend it to "in Summer 2007 &c." We aren't aiming to archive the entirety of the career, but rather present milestone facts that give a good outline of the acheivements and the narrative of the career. In terms of the getting the citations correct for the opera performances, one thing notable about Christos is that, unlike most "crossover" tenors, he has actually sung on the opera stage. This differentiates him from those "opera" crossover singers who have never set foot on an operatic stage. So we need to be precise. If we present facts clearly, in measured tones, and without an excess of detail, then the facts will speak for themselves, giving a clear idea of who the artist is, and what he has done. This is a helpful paragraph— Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons#Reliable sources—it explains the dangers that lie on either side of the path we should be trying to take. Yours, almost-instinct 23:40, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Avoiding hype 

message: Why is this article so long? A great deal of it smacks of promotional puff by the singer and his associates. Musically speaking he's (more or less) a nobody, and by any objective standards doesn't deserve the depth and detail of coverage he seems to be getting here.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.137.249.203 (talk) 12:28, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. To whom can all this superficial cruft be of any interest? Let me repeat what you have said: Musically speaking he's (more or less) a nobody. Agree 100%. 15:52, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: WP can be edited by anyone. Feel free almost-instinct 19:48, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Too much information?

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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