Talk:Stephen Sondheim

message: "Sweeney Todd (1979), Sondheim's most operatic score (and his only show to find a definite foothold in opera houses)..."
Didn't A Little Night Music play at NYCO?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.172.255.41 (talk) 00:09, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Opera houses

message: What's with the bump on his head? It's pretty pronounced and I've done lots of searching and have found no answer except to find I'm not the only one to wonder.--Jhlynes 23:51, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bump on his head

message: I think that's really odd phrasing for one's sexuality. Any suggestions to change that? IvanP 14:35, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sotto voce? 

message: I really think the list of major works should include the director. Harold Prince made a HUGE contribution to the shaping of those shows. Anyone object if I add it?
:Directors of musicals are usually an integral part of the authorship team. Please do add directors to the list. TheScotch 07:49, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Directors on list of major works 

message: Definately needed in my opinion MikeyB! 19:22, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Picture

message: Did Liza Minelli's version of "Losing My Mind" ever hit the top 40 in the United States or Europe? I think it might have, which would mean that "Send In The Clowns" wouldn't be his only Top 40 hit. Can anyone verify that? ChrisLK 23:41, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: According to Liza Minelli#Hit Singles it reached #6 in UK in 1989 and #11 in US Dance charts footie 20:05, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks! I think I'll change the "Send in the Clowns" thing then. ChrisLK 20:52, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I realize this is an old discussion, but many of the songs for Madonna for Dick Tracy did quite well....  —  MusicMaker 17:21, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Losing My Mind" 

message: "Sond" is not a German word.
Yes it is, halfwit.
:I don't speak German, but I can't find 'sond' or words that might be related (sond, sonder) in any online German dictionary. If it's German, it's mikely archaic. 157.131.202.151 (talk) 06:17, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: ""Sond" means sound, or body of water"

message: Speaking of lack-of-detail in the childhood section, he is not an only child, he has a brother named Walt.
:: Just to clarify the family situation. Sondheim's father, Herbert, and Alicia Babe had two sons, Herbert Sondheim, Jr, (born in Autumn 1943) and Walter Sondheim (born in Feb. 1946). Herbert Sr. and Alicia were married in a registry office in Stamford, Connecticut, in 1943, having obtained a Mexican divorce earlier. There was a legal separation between Herbert Sr and Foxy (Sondheim's mother) in autumn 1941, and a New York divorce was obtained in 1946. This rather long-winded account is just to set the stage for this: Herbert Jr. and Walter are Stephen Sondheim's HALF brothers. (reference: Stephen Sondheim, A Life, Meryle Secrest, 1998, , pages 28-30).JeanColumbia 19:53, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I looked up some relevant portions in the book via Amazon's 'search inside,' and it indicates that Stephen and the younger kids lived in the same house for several years after Stephen moved in with his father.  I was not assaulting the family tree with my original question of only-child-hood, just pointing out that I didn't think the statement in the article was accurate.  I personally do not think that children with half-siblings can accurately be described as "only children" ... don't half siblings count as children?  Is there another word; can you be a half-only-child?  Sure, he was the only child for the first few years, but that's always true until the second child is born.  The sentence in question seems to be from the book review at amazon.com, anyway, rather than a direct source (like the book).  I propose changing it to reflect the family situation.  Again, I'm not taking issue with your distinction about the parentage of the younger two, just saying that the description "an only child" doesn't fit -- not by the definition provided at the linked-to page on "only child."  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.197.31.27 (talk) 16:56, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

text: What does "might of had" mean? TheScotch (talk) 09:02, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Only child? 

message: The part in the Maturity section about Sondheim saying he only listens to Bach really needs a citation. Especially since Sondheim donated his record collection of over 13,000 recordings to the Library of Congress and they were not all Bach.--Timmyk0385 16:40, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Besides, his Desert Island collection (of recordings, in response to a question from a BBC Radio interviewer) was topped, not by a performance of a Bach work, but by a recording of Porgy and Bess- unsurprising, considering his fairly well-known (I think) admiration/enjoyment/... for George Gershwin's music in general and Porgy and Bess in particular. (It would surprise me if his listening background weren't quite wide, in any case. There's a fair amount more that's tip-of-the-hat-ish-to-Mozart- mostly in subtle, clever ways, if you ask me, but true all the same...- about A Little Night Music than just the title, for instance!) Schissel | Sound the Note! 02:56, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Only listens to Bach? 

message: Sondheim is widely seen as his generation's leading writer of the stage musical...
Wouldn't it be more encyclopedic to open it with something like "Sondheim is an American composer?"
Thoughts? Springreturning 20:41, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree with the comments of Springreturning, and rearranged the opening to be less POV and to omit the "weasel" words. JeanColumbia 23:28, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opening sentence - weasel words? 

message: I have expanded some sections a little bit - adding the "work away from Broadway" section, for example, which I think could stand expansion itself.  I would really like to add a section on his later personal life, since that bit ends pretty much when he's 16.  I have Secrest's biography as a source, and all I want to see is a couple of paragraphs, just to round the article out.  I see this was a bone of contention before, so I'll wait on it in case somebody objects.
Also, I am noticing a really adoring tone in a lot of the prose of the article which isn't really appropriate for an encyclopedia; there's also a lot of show jargon ("concept musical" and the like) that I'm trying to either define or eliminate.
-67.85.180.72 14:49, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Expansion 

message: I was watching the Academy Awards and heard that he did work for the 2007 movie "enchanted". Can anyone back up this claim or am I going senile at only 14 years? Thanks, Lazylaces (Talk to me 01:11, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps you're thinking of Stephen Schwartz? AJD (talk) 02:05, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Enchanted? 

message: I was surprised to see that their is no mention of Sondheim - A Celebration at Carnegie Hall on this page. It was released on DVD and CD as well as being aired on PBS on Great Performances and had a lot of great performers involved.Nrswanson (talk) 19:23, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: 1993 Great Performances broadcast of Carnegie Hall concert

message: An editor revised the headings of the works section to show (among other edits) that Sweeney Todd and A Little Night Music are Opera. I reverted these changes because I do not believe that it has been established that they are operas. I believe that any such classification should be discussed on the talk page and, per good Wikipedia practice, referenced so as not to be original research (see WP:OR). Here is one reference for Sweeney Todd: "He [Sondheim} considers Sweeney Todd:The Demon Barber of Fleet Street, which opened on Broadway in 1979, a musical, not an opera." Source:[Opera: a critic's guide to the 100 most important works and and the best recordings, Author: Anthony Tommasini, Macmillan, 2004, p. 202]. The title page of the Sweeny Todd script shows:"A musical Thriller". I think in the actual articles on these musicals it would be interesting to note if any writers, scholars, or reviewers called the musical an opera, operetta, chamber operetta, or any variation (with appropriate referencing). JeanColumbia (talk) 12:08, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Sondheim has made various statements about this, sometimes saying that they are musicals when played in a theatre but operas when played in an opera house.  But whether or not they are "operas" also depends on what critics and audiences think.  There is certainly no critical consensus that they are operas.  I think the most that can be said is that, on occasion, these pieces, particularly Sweeney, have received operatic treatment.  I definitely agree that they should not be described as operas in general, and I also agree that a well-referenced treatment of the question would be helpful. -- Ssilvers (talk) 18:01, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks! By the way, I saw Sweeney Todd performed by the Wolf Trap Opera Company (and also on Broadway, etc in the more usual "musical theatre" style) and ALNM performed by New York City Opera (and also in several standard "musical theatre" productions), so I can understand where some are coming from with this idea of opera.JeanColumbia (talk) 18:16, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Opera question

message: Happy 80th birthday, Mr. Sondheim.  -- Ssilvers (talk) 17:58, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Oops! re: Nathan Lane.  OK, so did the event really happen?  Did anyone cancel?  Now we can put it in past tense.  -- Ssilvers (talk) 02:18, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks a million for this! I wanted to add it, but was too lazy to get a good reference. How about putting it in the "Honors and awards", subsection "Sondheim at 80"?? If you agree, you can do it or I will.JeanColumbia (talk) 12:15, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Happy Birthday, Stephen!

message: For goodness sake, doesn't anyone have a photo of Sondheim?  -- Ssilvers (talk) 23:05, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Can we use the Hirschfield illustration?  -- Ssilvers (talk) 23:13, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

text: More images: here.  -- Ssilvers (talk) 23:31, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Photo

message: Hi all,
I'm trying to introduce appropriate links to the orphaned article All that glitters is not gold (about the familiar quotation from Shakespeare), and I'm guessing the title of Sondheim's musical is taken from there; but I'm not sufficiently familiar with it be sure, or where to introduce it if so. If any of the regular editors of this article could take a look, I'd much appreciate it. --Xover (talk) 13:03, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, I'd be happy to help out but I'm a little confused--what musical are you refering to? (If it's Road Show, which at an early stage was titled Gold, that refers to the "Gold Rush".) JeanColumbia (talk) 13:43, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. I'm thinking of the musical mentioned in this section (the redlink in the first list item), which is apparently titled All That Glitters. --Xover (talk) 15:33, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah! OK, I have just finished looking at three reference books-- Martin Gottfried's Sondheim, Meryle Secrest's Stephen Sondheim: A Life, and Craig Zadan's Sondheim & Co. All 3 write about All That Glitters but none say where Sondheim got the title. I also looked at google books and, although finding many references to the musical, found nothing to show where he got the title. Sorry I can't be more helpful, but I'm stumped. JeanColumbia (talk) 14:22, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

text: Hrm. Is there anything about "All that  glitters" in the original play, Beggar on Horseback, on which the Sondheim musical All That Glitters is based (according to 
Sondheim.com?) Schissel | Sound the Note! 03:02, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name from the Shakespeare quote? 

message: Would anyone oppose if I was replacing  with  on this article? —bender235 (talk) 22:10, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference list 

message: Why Les Miserables are not even mentioned in this article? One of his major participation's. --WhiteWriter speaks 23:37, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Sondheim had nothing to do with Les Miz.--Bialytock&Bloom (talk) 00:44, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree, I find no references to any involvement by Sondheim with Les Miserables; I looked at several books I have, including the Secrest biography and the Craig Zadan book. Also see the extensive listing at [sondheimguide.com].JeanColumbia (talk) 12:50, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Les Mis 

message: There are images of Sondheim here: Hirschfield illustration (see also this); as a very young man and many other photos. More images: here.  More Hirschfeld images And some explanation.   None of these are free images, so you would need a fair use summary, which is very difficult to make with a living person.  The article would have to *discuss* the image so that you could make the case that the image is necessary to illustrate something in particular that is discussed in the article.  See Wikipedia:Non-free content criteria, especially criterion #8.  Ooh!  THIS might be a free image.  -- Ssilvers (talk) 23:54, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Images again

message: "But if you want to know why it's terrible," Hammerstein offered, "I'll tell you." 
What did Hammerstein tell him about his first musical he wrote? What was bad about it?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.23.123.240 (talk) 17:52, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Hrm. Part of the answer seems to be at Sondheim.com - in the documentary Six by Sondheim the composer, without going to lengthy detail, does say that Mr. Hammerstein told him to think of a musical, a lyric, or a song as a play: it needs to have a definite beginning, a middle, and an end, and to have ended somewhere other from where it began (he added a bit more.) Schissel | Sound the Note! 03:11, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  By George 

message: Why is that under minor works when he only influenced them, not created them?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.137.15.69 (talk) 00:32, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  My little pony songs 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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I have just modified one external link on Stephen Sondheim. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111005051321/http://www.frankrich.com/schedule.htm to http://www.frankrich.com/schedule.htm
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: We can't tell whether this is the father or the son. Valetude (talk) 22:47, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pic of Hammerstein 

message: Just passing by as a non-expert, and the intro is very strong, but the transition between the first two sentences feels awkward due to repetition of the same thought (know for work in theater, one of the most important figures in musical theater). What do you think of the following simplification?
: Stephen Joshua Sondheim (; born March 22, 1930) is an American composer and lyricist. One of the most important figures in 20th-century musical theater, Sondheim has been praised for having “reinvented the American musical" ...
Also, in the intro last paragraph, more Tonys than any other composer is added as an afterthought but packs more punch than the content of the sentence, and is not specific about what kind of Tony award, what about something like the following?
: Sondheim has won eight Tony Awards for best musical, more than any other composer. His other awards include an Academy Award, a Special Tony Award, eight Grammy Awards, a Pulitzer Prize, a Laurence Olivier Award, and a 2015 Presidential Medal of Freedom.
Thoughts?
Cstanford.math (talk) 06:30, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible improvements to intro 

message: Knives Out did not win any Oscars.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.122.216.158 (talk) 23:01, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Knives Out 

message: I have to agree with user Savacek above that "... this article is guilty of turning him into a metaphorical eunuch, so often done to gay men previously, less so today. It reminds me of how famous gay men, especially Hollywood actors were treated and reported on in the '50s... This omission in the current article is retrograde."
Compare this article's very short (one brief paragraph and a one-sentence mention of his death) "Personal life" section with the comparatively detailed "Personal life" section of the article on Leonard Bernstein. 
The lack here of information about Sondheim's personal life is, in my opinion, an egregious omission and effectively ghettoizes him as a gay person. Carlstak (talk) 16:33, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Could you add some? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:52, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, of course, soon as I have a chance. I wanted to revive the subject in light of the previous, but old (dating to 2005) conversations about this issue, hoping that someone else might get around to it, as I'm still knee deep in reading for expansion of the Bo Diddley article.;-) Carlstak (talk) 19:42, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  The lack here of information about Sondheim's personal life effectively ghettoizes him as a gay person. 

message: fix the repeated phrase at ...wit 2600:100F:B027:412:1127:F9EA:6073:314E (talk) 20:13, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, which phrase? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:07, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  text 

message: The intro describes Sondheim as a lyricist who "becomes" a lyricist and composer after "Gypsy". This badly describes someone who had been writing both music and lyrics since his youth, and had already written both for one unproduced Broadway show ("Saturday Night"). He was a lyricist because the opportunity to write lyrics for "West Side Story and "Gypsy" had presented themselves, and Hammerstein had encouraged him to take them, not because he wasn't already a composer.
I'm not familiar with etiquette and standards for editing long, important articles or I'd have written a better version of the current text. It only requires minor restatement not to be misleading. 157.131.202.151 (talk) 06:54, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intro mischaracterization? 

message: The external link to "sondheimcenter.com" has shown a redirect at archive.org to "fairfieldacc.com" since at least December 2007. The Fairfield ACC's 'About Us' page shows the Sondheim Center more clearly than the home page, so I have revised the external link to "fairfieldacc.com/about" and removed the "dead link" (Dead link|date=October 2019 |bot=InternetArchiveBot |fix-attempted=yes) notation. Old Beeg ..warble·· 19:20, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Center for Performing Arts external link 

message: Currently, the article lacks any mention of Sondheim's lyrical contribution to Candide. Phil wink (talk) 02:15, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Is someone going to correct this omission?! 173.88.246.138 (talk) 03:56, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  To be candid... 

message: please revert per WP:STATUS QUO. NYC hasn't been linked since 's 2021 edit. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 23:50, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, MOS:OVERLINK specifically gives "New York City" as an example of a location that does not have to be linked under most circumstances, because it is so well-known. Sunshineisles2 (talk) 20:17, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  New York City 

message: Shouldn't we create a page for Sondheim's last musical, Here We Are? 173.88.246.138 (talk) 03:54, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd be cautious about calling a posthumous work "last". Sondheim didn't finish this thing, and there are plenty of other unfinished Sondheim works that could conceivably be dredged up and produced later. TheScotch (talk) 01:35, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''Here We Are'' 

message: The searchterm "Sondheim" currently redirects to a disambiguation. It would make more sense for it to redirect here; the other pages in the disambiguation redirect are extremely limited (4), and they're either related to the Sondheim Theatre (named after Sondheim himself), a small municipality in Germany with under 1000 citizens, or the surname "Sondheim". Gambitenthusiast99 (talk) 19:16, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sondheim redirect