Talk:Brownsea Island Scout camp

message: The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.
*See if possible if there is a free use image that can go on the top right corner of this article.[?]
*As per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates), dates shouldn't use th; for example, instead of using January 30th was a great day, use January 30 was a great day.[?]
*Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.[?]
You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Wim van Dorst (Talk) 22:02, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: thanks, but I said I can't find the "th" problem, not there's not a free patch/logo to use, and I'm a poor copyeditor-;)Rlevse 22:05, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Peerreview output 

message: Yes, Randy, we can. It'll need work, be sure, but it can be done. 
;APPROPRIATE PICS
The illustrations are all circumstantial: the article is about that one historical camp and we only have the one historic picture. Look here:
* http://www.scouting.milestones.btinternet.co.uk/brownsea.htm
* http://www.pinetreeweb.com/bp-pictures2.htm
And as aptly pointed out, the article needs a good readable picture of the memorial stone. 
;COPYRIGHTS
And some honesty in the copyrights. I'm sure  (that is US copyrights), or  (the photographer died more than 70 years ago?) are not the most appropriate tags for a British photograph. If we can get away with  and FU, this would be alread good. 
;OTHER IMPROVEMENTS
*See also (better, more): questionable whether Gilwell Park is approriate. From the angle of historic camp, the 17 year later campsite is much less relevant than, e.g., Humshaugh. Perhaps adding some historic events in 1905–1910? Although there weren't any jamborees of supranational scale, there must've been gatherings and campsites? Where did Scouts go for camping? The Scout Bureau got international very early, so there must have been gatherings. And what about other activities B-P did in those early years: he toured the world, visited new camping acitivities, etc, etc.
*External links: there must be more than one
*Text flow: hard to define, but I'm not really sure that the sectioning and paragraphing is optimal yet.
Wim van Dorst (Talk) 22:51, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: actually, we have two old pics, but I see your point. We should have BigDT look over our image tags before we submit for FAC and have our final photo set.Rlevse 11:15, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: additional images of the stone now on wikicommons. LordHarris 09:22, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, Harry. I do like the post box! The new memorial stone pictures are limited in readibility too. Would a picture with the sun on the other side be possible? Wim van Dorst (Talk) 20:46, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: 100px 
Hi, I have added the only other image of the stone I have above. Unfortunately the readibility is again low. In about two weeks Im off to Brownsea and will take my new digital SLR. I will take a few minutes and get some max high res, readable and focused shots of the stone, the camp ground, the came shop, the signs and any other related scout things. LordHarris 17:43, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

text: COOL, many thanks.Rlevse 17:51, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  The article is looking good. — ERcheck (talk) 22:28, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Good to hear, Harry. We'll give it a few weeks to await your nice pictures. Yes, ERcheck, I agree with you, but would like to suggest to clear the picture problems before going for FA in full. Wim van Dorst (Talk) 23:18, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Definitely.  It will be great to have some free pictures added to the article soon. — ERcheck (talk) 02:19, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: With any luck I should be going to Brownsea Island tommorow. However for the last seven days it has rained here in South England. Weather forcasts predict no rain, in which case I should get some photos, but then English weather is far from predictable. LordHarris 13:52, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Way cool. Any info that will add to the article would be good. I'm not so sure that a list of all attendees would be good though, lists are frowned upon for FA. Note the stone says 20 youths attended, but it was really 21 (rather well documented).Rlevse 17:14, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ive expanded a few sections and added references for what I have added. I have also split the campsite today section into two sections - one that contains all information pre 2000 and one actually about the campsite today. Interestingly I was under the impression that it was 20 scouts who attended. According to Why Brownsea (2007 edition) it states that "there were in fact 20 boys for the whole time with Simon Rodney arriving at the end to collect his brothers, hence the confusion". There appears to be two different sources citing attendee numbers? LordHarris 18:03, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Yes, some sources say it was really 21, see the refs on the history of the camp. I hadn't stated the version you mention before, maybe we'll never really know.Rlevse 10:06, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

text: The new photos are great!  — ERcheck (talk) 22:16, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The 200px pics in the middle and bottom of the article may be standard, but they are so big that IMHO they take over and dominate the article. Rlevse 22:34, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Most pictures are very useful and illustrative. I'd recommend several also for the Brownsea Island article as well. I moved some pictures around and re-standardized them to 200px width. For people with a 800x600 monitor, that may be relatively large, but it is the WP standard, Randy. Now also having moved and copy-edited some things, I think it balances better than smalls and wides jumbling throughout the article. Randy, what do you think? Wim van Dorst (Talk) 22:46, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree the number of pics and their subject is fine, but 200px is way too big, even if it is the wiki standard. I have my monitor at 1024x768. Pics should supplement the article, not take it over. I also put some in Brownsea Island. I think the reason they dominate in this article is that there are so many that are good for the article. We should reduce the number of pics in the article or cut their sizes if we keep them all. Let's see what develops over a day or two. Actually, I just checked it again and you've changed it since a few minutes ago. I can probably live with it as it is right now.Rlevse 23:16, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Patience is a good thing. Have a look at your own user preferences, where you now (without explicit thumb image size) can set your preferred thumb size yourself! I can have 250px and you can have 150px! (ps. I surreptitiously already deleted a non-scout pic). Wim van Dorst (Talk) 23:20, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

text: it's in one of the things already ref'd. I'll see if I can find it.Rlevse 23:17, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Yes, I'll work on it.Rlevse 23:17, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not too quick: the Brownsea Island article already has coordinates, which in my humble opinion is correct as that is a geographical description. Do we then want to copy those (I think not)? Perhaps the coordinates of the camping fields or the B-P Centre? Or of the historic site (my preference). Wim van Dorst (Talk) 23:23, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I was going to get the historic site coords.Rlevse 23:29, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Can we now get it to FA? 

message: I went to Brownsea today, despite the terrible weather (lots of rain). I managed to get a few shots of the stone, of the camp ground and one of the church. I was also able to get a shot of the BP memorial. Unfortunately much of the campsite was closed to visitors as they have almost finished building the new Baden-Powell Outdoor Centre. I was able to snap a shot of the visitor centre, it is due to be finished in time for the August Centenary, a National trust volunteer informed me. I was able to purchase a detailed history about the first scout camp, some passages of which I will add to this article, with references later today. The history guide contains lots of info like the names of the scouts as well as a detailed run down of each days activities, the various patrols etc. Would other editors like me to add info like the names of the scouts and the leaders? Anyway here are the best images I was able to take. I was able to get two shots of the actual campsite tent ground (that wasnt under development) though only one tent is present, in one shot in the rearground. Furthermore the distance signpost and the scout flags near the stone have both been taken away until the revamping of Brownsea camp is finished. For now though one or two of these photos might be of use for the article:
Image:Brownsea Island Stone Scout Camp 1.JPG|The commemorative Stone of the First Scout Camp
Image:Brownsea Island Stone Scout Camp 2.JPG|The commemorative Stone of the First Scout Camp
Image:Brownsea Island Stone Scout Camp 3.JPG|The commemorative Stone of the First Scout Camp
Image:Brownsea Island Stone Scout Camp 4.JPG|The commemorative Stone of the First Scout Camp
Image:Brownsea Island Stone Scout Camp 5.JPG|The commemorative Stone of the First Scout Camp
Image:Brownsea Island Sign.JPG|Brownsea Island Entrance Sign
Image:Baden Powell Memorial.JPG|Baden-Powell Memorial erected 1996
Image:Brownsea Island Scout Camp 1.JPG|The Brownsea Island Scout Camp Tent Pitches (white tent in rear)
Image:Brownsea Island Scout Camp 2.JPG|The Brownsea Island Scout Camp Tent Pitches
Image:Brownsea Island Scout Camp Church.JPG|Scouting and Girl Guide flags at the memorial in St Marys Church
Image:Brownsea Island New Visitor Centre.JPG|Baden-Powell Outdoor Centre, the new main camp building, due for completion August 2007
::Way cool. Any info that will add to the article would be good. I'm not so sure that a list of all attendees would be good though, lists are frowned upon for FA. Note the stone says 20 youths attended, but it was really 21 (rather well documented).Rlevse 17:14, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ive expanded a few sections and added references for what I have added. I have also split the campsite today section into two sections - one that contains all information pre 2000 and one actually about the campsite today. Interestingly I was under the impression that it was 20 scouts who attended. According to Why Brownsea (2007 edition) it states that "there were in fact 20 boys for the whole time with Simon Rodney arriving at the end to collect his brothers, hence the confusion". There appears to be two different sources citing attendee numbers? LordHarris 18:03, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, some sources say it was really 21, see the refs on the history of the camp. I hadn't stated the version you mention before, maybe we'll never really know.Rlevse 10:06, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

text: The new photos are great!  — ERcheck (talk) 22:16, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The 200px pics in the middle and bottom of the article may be standard, but they are so big that IMHO they take over and dominate the article. Rlevse 22:34, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Most pictures are very useful and illustrative. I'd recommend several also for the Brownsea Island article as well. I moved some pictures around and re-standardized them to 200px width. For people with a 800x600 monitor, that may be relatively large, but it is the WP standard, Randy. Now also having moved and copy-edited some things, I think it balances better than smalls and wides jumbling throughout the article. Randy, what do you think? Wim van Dorst (Talk) 22:46, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree the number of pics and their subject is fine, but 200px is way too big, even if it is the wiki standard. I have my monitor at 1024x768. Pics should supplement the article, not take it over. I also put some in Brownsea Island. I think the reason they dominate in this article is that there are so many that are good for the article. We should reduce the number of pics in the article or cut their sizes if we keep them all. Let's see what develops over a day or two. Actually, I just checked it again and you've changed it since a few minutes ago. I can probably live with it as it is right now.Rlevse 23:16, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Patience is a good thing. Have a look at your own user preferences, where you now (without explicit thumb image size) can set your preferred thumb size yourself! I can have 250px and you can have 150px! (ps. I surreptitiously already deleted a non-scout pic). Wim van Dorst (Talk) 23:20, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: New Photos

message: New question. Refs anyone? Wim van Dorst (Talk) 22:46, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: it's in one of the things already ref'd. I'll see if I can find it.Rlevse 23:17, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Who put up the stone and when

message: Shall we? Wim van Dorst (Talk) 22:46, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I'll work on it.Rlevse 23:17, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not too quick: the Brownsea Island article already has coordinates, which in my humble opinion is correct as that is a geographical description. Do we then want to copy those (I think not)? Perhaps the coordinates of the camping fields or the B-P Centre? Or of the historic site (my preference). Wim van Dorst (Talk) 23:23, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I was going to get the historic site coords.Rlevse 23:29, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Coord?

message: I took this from the article page, it needs sourcing and wikification..."As a everlasting mark of the new centuary of scouting the national trust has funding the construction of two new purpose build building for use by the Scouting Association. During the celebrations these two building will be home to a scouting history museam and the second the media centre. (After the celebrations these buildings will revert to being a resource centre). The new Baden-Powell resource centre project also included new washing and toilet facilies for the scout and guide campsite." Rlevse 22:42, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Isnt this already included in the after 2000 section? LordHarris 00:25, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Pretty much, now that you mention it. I cut this from the centenary section.Rlevse 01:01, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Source and wikify

message: Seeing as Robert Baden-Powell, 1st Baron Baden-Powell is up for the Today's feature article for August 1st, maybe this page should be requested for August 2nd. It will need a request blurb ready for front page posting before the date can be requested, so if anyone feels they create a good blurb for the Brownsea Island Scout camp article, give it a shot. JQF • Talk • Contribs 22:54, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done.Rlevse 23:05, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article as TFA for August 2nd? 

message: As it's a FA I hesitate to leap in and change it: is "campaigning" in lead para correct, or should it be "camping"? It's linked to Camping.  PamD 08:43, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed, good catch! It did used to say camping. Probably some vandal changed it and we missed his/her change. Thanks for seeing it.Rlevse 09:49, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, curiously it seems to arrive in http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brownsea_Island_Scout_camp&diff=prev&oldid=143578718 ready-mangled (or perhaps that text was lifted from elsewhere in the article?)! Strange things happen.  PamD 10:15, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, then it was just an honest mistake. Thanks for catching it.Rlevse 10:18, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Campaigning or camping? 

message: Recently at H007 I saw a list of the boys at the camp at their patrols. Should we not add the list to Wikipedia? Should someone remember/know it? --Joe
: A simple list would not be that interesting- it would need to include details.  About the best reference I have seen to date is on Johnny Walker's site.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 21:57, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  "Would not be that interesting" !  That arrogance leaves me breathless !  That quotation is a personal opinion, not a fact.  *Some* people might find it interesting.  In fact, it was one reason why I visited this page in the first place.  If Wikipedia is to have credibility, it should provide as much (properly referenced) information as possible, or a sign-post to where it can be found - but to do that rather defeats the whole object of Wikipedia as "the source and fount of all knowledge; look no further."...RobinClay (talk) 14:43, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  THE BOYS! 

message: I am visiting the island in early October I will attempt to take photographs of the new scout camp facilities. LordHarris 12:05, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Outstanding. My suggestion is to load them directly onto commons and license them as GFDL-self or PD. CC is possible too. Or if you prefer, email them to me with a statement as to how you want to license them and I'll upload them and ask for an OTRS ticket. Thanks so much for taking all the photos.Rlevse 12:58, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

text: OK will do! LordHarris 22:47, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: New Photos

message: The edit war, of a kind, whether the number of boys was 20 or 22 should stop, Johnny Walker on Scouting Milestones or perhaps in his book explains the whole business. The number was 22, but one of them, B-P's nephew was underage and was not in a patrol. This was resolved recently. Previously people did think there were only 20. The whole story needs to be mentioned but I am too busy right now. --Bduke  (Discussion) 00:58, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It's 22 if you count Donald BP, 21 if you don't. The "20" comes from a long erroneous roster.  — Rlevse • Talk •  01:10, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed, I have now added the story to the article as it is told by Colin Walker. It was the 4th Rodney Brother (all four sons of Lord Rodney were present) who was not listed by B-P and others earlier. --Bduke  (Discussion) 23:05, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  No of boys, 20 or 22? 

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thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018) 

message: While I would not change the title of this article, when B-P held his "camp" it was BEFORE there were such things as "Boy Scouts", so it is misleading to call THAT camp a "Scout" camp.  It was an experiment; a dummy run, if you like.  The "official" FIRST "Scout" Camp was that held at Humshaugh, Northumberland from 22 August to 4 September 1908.https://thescoutingpages.org.uk/the-first-camp/  By comparison... Jesus was a Jew, not a Christian - See Acts ch 11 v 26   RobinClay (talk) 18:58, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Scout" Camp is incorrect 

message: Listing at WP:FARGIVEN; this article has had maintenance tags for almost three years, and relies on dubious sourcing such as britishbattles.com, personal webpages, tourist sites, and similar.  The sourcing is not up to FA standards. SandyGeorgia (Talk)  19:38, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  FA concerns