Wikipedia talk:Help desk/Archive 1

message: I think the link to experiment when one clicks on experimental in the first sentence on this page is misleading. One would expect to be led to a Wikipedia page explaining what an experimental page is, but instead, one is led to the page that defines and describes a scientific experiment.
:Thanks for pointing that out. As the page has been around for a while now anyway, I've removed the experimental note. Angela. 01:47, May 3, 2004 (UTC)
::Yeah.  It's not really an experiment anymore.  It's more like a "success."  ;-)  Thanks to everyone who've been maintaining it. Isomorphic 02:17, 3 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  "''This is an [[experiment|experimental]] page''" 

message: I've just been looking over this talk page and it really strikes me as a big success and an example of Wikipedia editing at it's best. Starting off as someone (I think it was MyRedDice) having an idea to take traffic off the Village Pump, it developed through co-operative editing to a highly successful page which gives everyone, not just newcomers, a place to have their queries about editing or anything else answered quickly, and takes these queries off the Village Pump, leaving it free for discussion. Well done, everyone who helped make this page what it is. LUDRAMAN | T 16:20, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Well done 

message: i'm not quite sure who to write to so i've sent this mail to a few places. the problem is ther's a guy called cyperpoeta who wants to set up a brazilian wikipedia as distinvct from a portuguese one (why, i'm not sure). but all things being equal, good luck to him. the hitch is her's occupying the br site which is already assigned to breton (where i contribute). he's already changed the welcome page several times. what can be done??
81.60.240.99 14:46, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: My suggestion is to block him for disruption if he keeps changing the language (you will need to ask an administrator on the :br: Wikipedia to do this, we have no powers on other Wikipedias)., and direct him to m:Help:How to start a new Wikipedia. Thryduulf 15:50, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  breton vs new brazilian site 

message: Shouldn't the help desk be archived by now? 204 sections looks a bit too much. — JIP | Talk 12:30, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Now there are 223.  It definitely ought to be archived.  If nobody more experienced steps up to the plate in the next day or so, I guess I'll do it: should I just follow the instructions at Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page, making changes for the fact that it's not a talk page? —Josiah Rowe 02:18, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archival 

message: I am having a tough time listing something for deletion. The page is Aidan Coughlan and I can't get the listing on the articles for deletion page to come up right. Can someone help me fix it please? Thanks Davidpdx 9/17/05 6:00 (UTC)
:Seems to correctly be on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2005 September 17.  If you're still having trouble seeing it perhaps you might try the "purge server cache" link near the top of the page. -- Rick Block (talk) 15:35, 17 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Listing something for deletion 

message: The HD seems to be being hit by a lot of spammers these last two days; I've gone through the history and identified each offending IP in that timeframe, and left a note on WP:AN/I. If any more turn up (which is likely), it might be helpful to make a note of the IP address as well as reverting it... Shimgray 12:13, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spammers 

message: Is there some way to go back to the top/index from a section of rather long pages, as this; other than scrolling. Thanks VivekM 03:27, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: In most browsers, the PageUp/PageDown keys will scroll up and down a "screen-length", and the Home and End keys will go straight to the top and bottom of the page respectively. Shimgray | talk | 14:20, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Back to top

message: I have been wondering why there is so much junk on this page. By junk I mean questions that don't belong here. Having been observing the page for some time I observe that
(a) people who post junk questions never come back to reply. 
(b) people who post junk questions frequently have no idea where they are, because they are asking very specific questions based on something that isn't on Wikipedia.
My theory is this. And sorry if it duplicates work already done.
(a) many people have no idea where they are on the internet in general. They click on links but aren't in the habit of reading URLs to see where they are. As far as they are concerned, they are just "on the internet". Hence there is little idea of what is or is not appropriate.
(b) many people are desperate to get a bit of help, and will try to pursue anything that might seem to lead there.
(c) most people do not read everything in front of them. Most people just skim looking for things of interest.
(d) (i) A user finds themselves on Wikipedia, by following a link, searching Google etc. and wants some help. 
(ii) They click on Help in the left sidebar. The page that results is fairly intimidating and will drive away many. But those who persist will find the section Asking a question. The first thing in this section is Help desk. No need to read on, let's go to the Help desk.
(iii) The Help desk too has lots of words. Have you noticed how few people like a sea of words? And instructions are for geeks. Scanning down, they will come to a box that says Ask a new question by clicking here.
(iv) A page appears which looks perfect. There are two boxes to type in. Unfortunately "subject/headline" means nothing to many people, but they type stuff in one or both boxes.
(v) There doesn't seem to be an "ask question" button, but some will eventually try the Save page button.
(vi) This looks perfect. There, among a bunch of junk is my question. So I sat down to wait for a reply. Five minutes pass and the screen is unchanged.  Many will give up at this point. The more experienced may try Refresh and see nothing has changed.  So, there's nobody here. I'm off.  The user will not bookmark the page and return for answers, because they have no idea this is not a chat page; if you ask a question in the pub you don't come back the next day to see if someone replied.
Dissenting view: yes, I have to contradict myself. Perhaps some people do return and see the replies. However, there isn't a "Send a reply" button, so they don't know what to do, and wander off.
Conclusions.
(a) People are people; you can't make them read instructions or understand the internet better just when they visit Wikipedia.
(b) One possibility is to make it harder to ask a question. Lose the Ask a new question by clicking here link. But some people wanting to help in Wikipedia won't get far enough to get past that.
(c) One possibility is to reorder the items in Asking a question. Some people will be diverted to leave exotic messages in a different place. Reference desk is the obvious choice. They still won't see their replies, but it may be better targeted. However Help desk is an attractive name.
(d) Change the name of Help desk to something less attractive. Assistance with Wikipedia might do it. 
(e) Silently delete everything that looks like a poor lost soul. Their poor lost message won't do anything but annoy, and they will never see the admonishments or assistance, so just delete it.
(f) Make the Ask a new question by clicking here go to another page. This page could be a front end which linked back to the relevant thing after informing or intimidating the visitor. But it's no use repeating a bunch of rules. Just one point, perhaps. Or a choice of links e.g. Question about wikipedia, General question, Just help me now.  The first would go to add a help desk message, the second to the reference desk, and the third to a lost soul page with a very short explanation or even suggestions.
(g) Set up a "live help" facility, manned by patient volunteers, and closed when they aren't active. A crazy idea, but there might just be enough. I suspect it will have to leave the Wiki World to provide something that makes sense to beginners. And it would have to have as its brief to deal with every kind of question equally.
Sorry to have made this so long, but I suspect many people share my frustration... torn between wanting to help, and not wanting to clutter up the help desk with off topic replies. Notinasnaid 13:21, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Rewording the "ask a new question by clicking here" link might help.  I added "about using Wikipedia".   Linking to a separate page with clicks for specific kinds of questions might help, but might be annoying as well.  Live interactive help desk might be nice, but the advantage of the current mechanism is the help desk is just another page on the wiki.  -- Rick Block (talk) 19:08, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks, Rickl; hopefully that small edit will make some difference, though you can't ever help all the sheep, all the time. If they won't read the big pink box.... nae'blis (talk) 18:10, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

text: Also, when you click "edit this page" at the top of Wikipedia:Help Desk it says  
"See Category:Help_desk_archives before archiving this page      
Ask your question at the bottom of this page"
underneath the header.  Maybe we could add a qualification there too? Like This is not the page for factual questions. Please refer them to Wikipedia:Reference Desk? Then again that might be confusing for new users who won't know to exit the editing screen and look for the Reference Desk... --Kewp (t) 19:36, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  A theory of why there is so much junk on this page 

message: The page now has 196 headings. Isn't it time for it to be archived again? Titoxd(?!?) 00:23, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archive again 

message: There are at least 2 completely seperate articles on this guy one under Gatemouth Brown and one under Clarence Gatemouth Brown. Since I know very little about the man and am not sure how to fix this without drawing down the wrath of the gods I am just hoping someone who reads this will.
Williamb 19:04, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, this needs to be fixed. One way would be to list it on Wikipedia:Duplicate articles, but that seems backlogged at the moment. Alternatively there are instructions for merging the pages at Wikipedia:Merging and moving pages. I can't decide what name the article should be at, so I'll leave a message at the respective talk pages and let someone else deal with it.  Next time, if you have a question like this it would be best to locate it at the Help desk directly, rather than here: the Help desk talk.--Commander Keane 12:26, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: A message on the talk pages did the trick and User:Dave Cohoe fixed up the problem.--Commander Keane 12:22, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clarence "Gatemouth" Brown 

message: Hi, I am a Photoshop enthusiast and I have been trying to improve some images that seems to benefit from Photoshop. However, when I upload by clicking "Upload new version", it never seems to work, but when I use another name for the image, it works perfectly. May I know what is the problem? — PM Poon 14:43, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uploading new version of image 

message: If interested could any of the HD regulars take a look at the RD supersection date headers to see if it would be helpful here. HD has about 250 questions and dating may help with navigation and archiving.  --hydnjo talk 19:12, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Have you investigated getting a bot to do this?--Commander Keane 17:18, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I have asked at RD/talk. The first pass will have to be done by hand (me) I think. Maintenance (a newdate section added at midnight each day and archiving the stale section from x days ago) should be done by a bot. No answer to my request yet. I bring it up here to get some feedback on the look and feel at th RD before I start sectioning the HD.  --hydnjo talk 18:40, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds good to me. I went through my first manual archive of the existing HD format today and it was a pain trying to find the right place to cut in the edit box. Supersectioning would help a lot. --GraemeL (talk) 19:09, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Supersectioning with dates

message: If you can answer questions on the Help desk, then chances are you could help out at Wikipedia:General complaints. Many of the questions, while being complaints, require help. DES seems to be on patrol there recently, but lets give him a hand.--Commander Keane 00:18, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  General complaints 

message: I was searching for the rationale for this rule, but I couldn't find it. It's not a big deal though, even if I don't agree: I don't think we should be so nazi about this and keep removing email adresses. If they are posted, the posters are responsible for that and I can't see it does us or Wikipedia any harm. So why don't we just tell people kindly (but in bold and large type and perhaps in red to take this to the extreme) that we won't mail back, and posting their email makes no difference at all. — Sverdrup 17:42, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It does, an email address here makes it very susceptible to spam. There is no reason why we shouldn't protect newbies from spam. Titoxd(?!?) 06:04, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Do NOT list your e-mail address 

message: Developer Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason has created a Special:Cite page that uses variables to create standard citation styles; there's a new "Cite this article" link in the sidebar "toolbox" for every page in the article namespace.  See Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Cite this article and m:Help:Cite.  (The text is editable at MediaWiki:Cite text.)  — Catherine\talk 06:00, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  New tool to answer "how do I cite this?" 

message: I recently uploaded http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Lily3.jpg to the commons. However it is not showing up in Wikipedia see, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Lily3.png . Can anyone help me? --- <FONT COLOR="#000000">J</FONT><FONT COLOR="#1f3f00">e</FONT><FONT COLOR="#3f7f00">d</FONT><FONT COLOR="#5ebe00">O</FONT><FONT COLOR="#7cfc00">s</FONT>   19:47, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: This page is for discussion about the operation of the Help desk page.  You want the actual Wikipedia:Help desk page. --David Woolley 20:27, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help with images from the Commons 

message: That pink box at the top of the page - will anyone object if I change it so that it reads like this:
This is a page for questions about how to use Wikipedia. 
*See Wikipedia:Reference desk for factual questions not yet answered by Wikipedia (e.g., How does a car work? Where was Gandhi educated?).
*See Wikipedia:General complaints for discussions on things that could be fixed or made better. 
*See Wikipedia:Village pump for policy and technical information. 
*See Wikipedia:Resolving disputes to resolve issues between users. 
*See Wikipedia:Computer help desk for help with software related to Wikipedia.
The way it is currently, with the examples of factual questions in the top line and in bold, it looks as though you can get answers to those sorts of questions here (to people who don't read carefully, at any rate).
--LesleyW 02:24, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the point is that there has to be more emphasis on "Some sorts of questions don't belong here". That was the point of that line, IMO. jnothman talk 13:08, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I have to say, I find it so irritating that there are like five pages for complaints/problems. This page is NOT for this, NOT for this, NOT for this. I am left asking, what the hell is it for? I think a large positive statement about the intent of this page should precede all the 'nots'. pfctdayelise 14:30, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: How about:
This is a page for questions about how to use Wikipedia. Note: This is not a page for factual questions (e.g., How does a car work? Where was Gandhi educated?). 
*See Wikipedia:Reference desk for factual questions not yet answered by Wikipedia (e.g., How does a car work? Where was Gandhi educated?).
*See Wikipedia:General complaints for discussions on things that could be fixed or made better. 
*See Wikipedia:Village pump for policy and technical information. 
*See Wikipedia:Resolving disputes to resolve issues between users. 
*See Wikipedia:Computer help desk for help with software related to Wikipedia.
I think we need to make that point clear as people still mistake us for the reference desk even with that header. WAvegetarian (talk)  (email)   (contribs) 17:55, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

text: I've been bold and edited the top. I hope it stands out enough. If not, we can colour it all the colours of the rainbow and make it blink. =) jnothman talk 01:41, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks good. Thanks. --LesleyW 09:36, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page header 

message: I think it's time to archive, no? It's nearly 200kb. Gflores Talk 01:17, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you know anything about getting bots to automatically archive? (Or should I ask on the HelpDesk? :P) I've been archiving after about 9 days, based on what people have previously done here. But I think 7 is usually sufficient. You have to only archive after people are likely to have come and looked at the page, and not based on size. jnothman talk 01:32, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archive? 

message: A little vandalism at Mamba.  Can regular users revert?  If so I couldn't figure it out.  I could have just corrected the little vandalism manually, but wanted to learn how to do it the regular way (if possible for general users).  Also, if reporting vandalism instead of fixing it myself is the way to go, where is the best place to do so?  Thanks! --Bad carpet 16:05, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You're encouraged to revert it yourself, see Wikipedia:Revert.  Widespread vandalism or any issues you can't handle yourself should be reported to Wikipedia:Vandalism in progress.  -- Rick Block (talk) 17:52, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: Hi, I was trying to edit som Ndonga language template, but something happened on my User page: User:Juan de Vojníkov. Could you help me, how can I remove all that stuff?--Juan de Vojníkov 14:35, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You should ask these questions on the Help Desk proper, not the Talk page. There is some problem with the template - not a mistake by you. I'm trying to find out how to fix it. pfctdayelise 15:18, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Problems on user page 

message: None of the (seemingly endless) links clear this up for me. I want to know the code for changing the colour of words. I don't know where to post this request to. Alternatively, someone could answer here and when I see the answer I will just delete this section. Cheers. 82.44.212.6 19:14, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, okay, cool. Okay, so does anybody have an answer for me, then? :) 82.44.212.6 20:14, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed. To change the color of letters and numbers, use  in front of whichever letters or numbers you wish to transmogrify. As such in my example: MegamanZero -> MegamanZero; please see my edit on the page for a closer look. -MegamanZero|Talk 20:36, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Oh, thank you so much, Megaman!! :D 82.44.212.6 20:57, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  What Code(s) Changes the Colour of Writing? (Formerly: Where do I Post For Tech Help?) 

message: I just restored the January 1st section to the project page after I notice some links to spam sites.   I did it by just copying the section from a pre-vandal revision becuase it seemed the easiest way to fix it.  Hope I didn't mess it up. Here is the vandal's contrib page.--◀Pucktalk▶ 13:09, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reverted the Help desk page, sort of.