Talk:Kel-Tec SU-16

message: Yeah, I know, everyone loves pictures. But what good is the picture of a heavy modified SU-16 made to look like an AR-15 carbine with pistol grip and telescopic stock? The article even mentions that the SU-16 does not have a pistol grip, making it compatible with the more restrictive American states. The folding stock of the SU-16 is an interesting feature, even if only because it shows that the gas system is different from the AR-15 line. Also, it is butt-ugly characteristic. Tierlieb (talk) 12:36, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If you know of another free image that is more suitable, replace it. If not, I think having even the current image is obviously better than having none at all. If you have an SU-16 or you live near a gun store with a stock model (any variant), you could certainly improve the article by snapping a picture and contributing it. The caption on this image does note the after-market modifications, of course. Also, how does the folding stock of the SU-16 say anything about the "gas system" of the AR-15? The only moving part in the AR-15's stock is the recoil buffer spring assembly, which has nothing to do with the gas system which need not be located aft of the receiver. Of course, if you removed the foregrip from each weapon, that would allow the difference in gas systems to be readily apparent (at least in terms of the diameter of the gas tube; the piston in the SU-16 would still be concealed). DickClarkMises (talk) 19:59, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Sorry, I don't own a SU-16 (really hard to get in Germany). So I appreciate your request for another picture and all the work invested. Regarding the "gas system". I figure I translated it wrong when trying to refer to the whole mechanism of the gun, but yes, I was referring to the characteristic buffer tube of the AR-15. This precludes you from using a folding stock like the SU-16 does, unless you change the whatever-the-whole-system-is-called of the AR-15 to use a piston. Tierlieb (talk) 12:04, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The OA-93 AR-15 pistol was an earlier pistol developed without a recoil buffer tube to the rear of the receiver. However, you are right. The recoil buffer assembly is necessary because the direct impingement gas plumbing doesn't restrain the travel of the bolt like the piston system does. Olympic Arms attempted to solve that by moving the recoil assembly above the bolt. I don't own an SU-16 either, but I am familiar with the PLR-16, which is essentially the same gas piston system. DickClarkMises (talk) 21:22, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

text: I've posted a request in the SU-16 forum at KTOG for someone to take a picture of a stock SU-16 and release it into the public domain. We'll see what happens. DickClarkMises (talk) 20:09, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

text: I would also note that the addition of the pistol grip may be effected using a kit from Kel-Tec, described here: . DickClarkMises (talk) 20:37, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I see. As an alternative picture this makes sense, because I guess we both see the temptation to come closer to the AR-15 looks. But the main idea behind the SU-16 was -in my opinion- to build something differently. A "pc" or "friendly" gun. Like Molot and Saiga are doing it with most of the AK clones they sell. So I would really prefer a picture of the gun in basic configuration. Tierlieb (talk) 12:04, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I would too. That isn't the issue here, though. The issue is whether this image is worse than no image at all. As soon as another image becomes available, we'll add it as the main image at the top of the article. Until then, I am of the opinion that this image, with the caption noting the modifications, offers some value to the encyclopedia article. DickClarkMises (talk) 21:25, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree on that. Tierlieb (talk) 13:21, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

text:  Good work! Tierlieb (talk) 10:26, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Remove picture?

message: I'm not sure how formal it is, but model's with the addition of the pistol grip and stock adapter kit have been dubbed "Echo", leading to their designation being SU-16E. I haven't really been able to find an official source to cite this configuration name, but I feel it should have a place in the article under variants for a "more formal" inclusion of the pistol grip/stock adapter kit as a variant. Since the kit is offered officially by Kel Tec, and the configuration invalidates the folding and collapsable stocks from the Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, and CA models, the new name designation is amiable. -Deathsythe (talk) 15:40, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Echo model 

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thread_title: File:Ar-10.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: Recent edits came through introducing information on a new, Canadian legal variant of the SU-16. The only reputable sources I was able to find was the importer/distributor company's website. Obviously something more official would be better for inclusion into the article, but it is something we should keep our eyes on. It appears they are waiting on Dept. of State approval before KT can start manufacturing and exporting to our neighbors to the north. I'm going to try to put a call into KT sometime today or tomorrow (regarding a separate matter with one of my guns) but will inquire about the SU-16F variant while I have them just for personal verification purposes. If they can forward me any press releases or anything for inclusion, that would be savvy too. -Deathsythe (talk) 13:09, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  SU-16F 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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