Talk:Presbyter

message: Should mention something about the marrital status of presbyters throughout history and churches/denominations. Doc 07:05, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's in clerical celibacy.  —Preost talk contribs 00:42, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I agree Blue Tie.  There is significant room for interpretation of 'presbyter'.  If this article is supposed to be complete, I recommend that several major definitions of presbyter be provided. (Gaytan 23:29, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Additional 

message: "In modern usage, it is distinct from bishop and synonymous with priest, pastor, elder, or minister in various Christian denominations". An elder doesn't have to be a minister or a priest in a Presbyterian or Anglican system. - Ta bu shi da yu 08:03, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is always a great challenge to understand where the sources of confusion are coming from. One reason of paramount importance is that the western churches not until the 15th Century had access to the Koine Greek canonised New Testament, but solely relied on Saint Jerome's Holy Catholic Latin translation until the 16th Century (please check and correct if I'm misinformed..). A history of concepts, etymologies, together with the history of the ideas and their institutions are needed, in addition to proper ability to deschiffer the enigmas of the Holy Scripture. Still the secret teaching, regarding ceremony and theosis among other things, handed down through authentic apostolic succession holds supreme authority. To my humble understanding of such things, being not ordained, nor examined, I've so far found that there is a basic structure in the Body of Christ as explained in the Bible; there are three hierarchies and five services of equal status, apart from the epignost (the perfect christian), all of which relates to the organisation of the holy Church after the pentacostle unleashing of the Holy Spirit: The five services (in addition to the epignost) mentioned in the epistle to the Ephesians are the Apostle, the Prophet, the Euangellion, the Pastor, The Didaskalos (Doctor). These six may be jotted with the four pairs of beautitudes, in order to simile the bridgroom principle of the twelve... The presbyters (the elders/preservators of lineage) is a distinct hierarchy from the bishops (overviewers/caretakers) and the diakons (hospitaliers/breaddealers); These three hierarchies seem to be fairly complementary to each other, in regard of the principle: the lowliest will be the highest and so on. If avoiding any generalisation, the only service explicitly mentioned that in disadvantage for women is the didaskolos, in the epistle to Timothew, who are called in particular for this service. 'Didaskalos' is translated as 'teacher', but in Latin it is rendered Doctor. Peculiarly the title of Doctor of Church ceased to be a service after the synod of Zaragossa in 380 (C.E.), I believe. From then on it was merely given post-humed, e.g. after death. And even more pecularly, from 1970 (or 1990?) given also to women. The Didaskalos may rather be synonym with detective than teacher, or doctor, in rather a progenitor of the process of reveiling, that is Revelation. This is seen from the particular theory holding that there was full equality between the sexes in early christianity, and that the apocalypse not only was perceived in spatiotemporal proximity, but was a process the mathetes actively were a part of, realising it meant entering the level of Magdalene, i. e. conquering seventh grade of the graded path of Saint John and so on... My sources are not esoteric, allthough acknowledgment of esoteric christianity combined with the posibility to retrieve information from a variety of sources, and access to study the bible with the best of tools (i.e. http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/). This rather controversial perspective of the church organisation as deployed in the Scripture, are of course not yet ripe for consensus, even if it would be solidly backed by sourcematerials combined with references to the secret teaching of the lineages of apostolic succession. But it serves me well as a backdrop for claiming that priest is derived from elder; and that the hierarchy of elders are a distinct one from that of the Bishops. One source may serve well: http://www.catholicapologetics.org/ap050400.htm... best regards...--Xact (talk) 08:10, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Respectfully, I must disagree 

message: I don't have the knowledge to do this, but it would be nice if someone could add the Greek characters of "presbyteros".  Adam_sk (talk) 06:14, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. The Cat and the Owl (talk) 06:35, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: It's All Greek to Me

message: The last paragraph of the section Modern Usage could be improved by adding a reference to this page, http://www.catholic.com/library/Call_No_Man_Father.asp specifically the paragraph, "Perhaps the most pointed New Testament reference to the theology of the spiritual fatherhood of priests is Paul’s statement, "I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel" (1 Cor. 4:14–15)." The Rev. John H Munson (talk) 15:51, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  The use of the term Father 

message: There is over whelming evidence that the pastoral epistles are forgeries dating to the mid second century - this was the period is which the authority of bishops was established and the forging of the pastoral epistles was no-doubt part of that process. Why then are these epistles cited here to build up a picture of Timothy and Titus in a role analogous to bishops?72.43.51.62 (talk) 10:53, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use of Pastoral Epistles as a Historic Source 

message: The claim that episkopos and presbuteros were synonyms in the Bible is very far from undisputed -- and along demonational lines. Goldfritha (talk) 02:35, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The verse in 1 Peter is usually translated overseer or guardian in modern English translations, not bishop. Rmhermen (talk) 19:56, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Synonym

message: In this article, as in many other similar articles, the hyperlinks for the scriptures are dead links. (At least, on my PC they are!) If this is a universal problem, is there any form of standard and reliable links that could be used to replace the current ineffective ones? If so, might there even be a WikiBot that could make this correction throughout the whole of WikiPedia?--Observer6 (talk) 18:27, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem is a broken bot and has been discussed here: . Rmhermen (talk) 18:53, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead Bible citation links

message: Would it be appropriate to say that episcopos refers exclusively to the office of bishop, ('bishop' being a word which has its own connotations) when we see that episcopos in the New Testament is usually translated overseer or guardian? So maybe 'bishop' should be removed from that sentence in the lead paragraph, and overseer or another suitable word used, rather than bishop? --Observer6 (talk) 21:37, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead parag: 'presbyter referring to ordinary elders and episkopos referring exclusively to the office of bishop.' ??? 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Presbyter. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20160304030251/http://isvbible.com/catacombs/elders.htm to http://isvbible.com/catacombs/elders.htm
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Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 17:43, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This article is on the exact same subject as Elder (Christianity). Elder is a translation while presbyter is a transliteration of the exact same term. Both articles are focused on the christian concept.
Should they be merged? Dirkwillems (talk) 23:49, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Redundant Article?