Talk:Metafiction

message: Would the following passage from Huck Finn be considered metafictional?
:You don't know about me without you have read a book by the name of The Adventures of Tom Sawyer; :but that ain't no matter. That book was made by Mr. Mark Twain, and he told the truth, mainly. 
:There was things which he stretched, but mainly he told the truth. 
--Savethemooses 22:05, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks it to me. Scix 02:31, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Can't believe no one has added it yet.  It was the first thing I thought of, and is the first words of the novel.  75.225.109.210 (talk) 04:37, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

text: It swerves near metafiction in its third-person mention of its own author as the author of Tom Sawyer, but that's about as close as it gets. I think Twain was merely trying to call attention to using Huck as a first-person narrator, a change from the third-person narration of Tom Sawyer. He calls into question "Twain's" reliability as a narrator (while averring that "mainly he told the truth") but he doesn't call into question his own reliability as a narrator or bring attention to his own account as being a fictional work. Schoolmann (talk) 16:12, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Question

message: Some of Terry Pratchett's Discworld stuff probably belongs here: Witches Abroad seems like a good choice. And a case could be made for Don Quixote. Opinions? Vicki Rosenzweig 01:38, 10 Aug 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: Pratchett should definitely be in here; "Narrativium" is an elemental particle in the Discworld, and his "The Science of Discworld" series with Ian Stewart and Jack Cohen features our world as a magical creation within the Discworld, which the characters travel to and experiment with. PhilHibbs | talk 12:54, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Discworld

message: A sequence of episodes in the series portrayed the cast as writing a sitcom that they referred to as "a show about nothing" which was a self-reference to the very sitcom they were in.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.165.88.30 (talk) 22:28, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The episodes about the cast pitching the show Jerry to NBC executives is exactly the topic being referenced here.  75.225.109.210 (talk) 04:39, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Seinfeld

message: There's a counterpart of english-american metafiction in France, which calls itself "mise en abyme" (ofcourse as you already know). So, what's the diference? It's one of the crucial aspect of postmodernist fictional evolution, isn't it... Some low-costed theorists indiferently group them terming "embedding" or self-reference. Godel's already self-reference, no less than Hegel, everything interesting in any symbolism. There is certain diference. For example, as English fiction focuses on personae (Faulkner is extreme in this sense), French one picks up some concrete medial objects (journal, lettre, &c.) when embedding. Shakespeare was no doubt one of the original models for French medial embedding scheme, though the intentionality is parallel to metafiction. That causes alternative reading effects.
Third approach may be sought in minor fictions like of Philip K. Dick. (Not that academic VALIS!  Ubik, Flow my tears,... are neither personal nor medial, for exemple. They also are great metafictional art work.)
--NoirNoir 06:47, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Mise en abyme

message: Would In Search of Lost Time be considered metafictional? --Tothebarricades 01:25, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Odds are good. Scix 02:36, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Proust?

message: The definition of "metafictional" in Metafiction (A) contradicts the definition in Fictional fictional character (B). Anthony Appleyard 06:58, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: A contradiction

message: Does a Greek Chorus count as meta? Scix 02:35, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Greek Chorus

message: Didn't Clive Barker write a book where the plot was a demon communicating via the very book the reader was holding? Lots42 (talk) 13:42, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clive Barker 

message: In Eugene Ionesco's play Rhinoceros, a character asks another if he's seen any of Ionesco's plays, and recommends he do so.  Does that qualify as metafiction?  And if so, is it a different type than those listed here, or does it fit into one of the subcategories? Markekeller (talk) 04:33, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rhinoceros 

message: There's a Buffy novel I wanna dig up where several of the female characters express admiration for the looks of Seth Green, actor. The metafiction being that Seth Green plays the character Oz, a prominent character in the show. Just thought it might be noteable. There's the bit in the article about television shows mentioning their own actors but not tie-in novels. And now that I think about it...what about real shows mentioned in a fictional context? Buffy the show mentions 'Enterprise' starring Scott Bakula. So they established their have their own version of Bakula and all related actors that exist in a world of demons and vampires and now I've gone cross-eyed. Lots42 (talk) 13:03, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  An interesting note or five 

message: There are several problems with Various devices of metafiction and especially under the subheading
Some common metafictive devices include: 
What apparently started as a list of Devices of Metafiction has seriously degenerated because of a determination to include many examples of each device.  Now it reads much more like a list of works that contain Metafiction, and in fact, this Discussion is also becoming such a list.! Such a list might be compiled elsewhere, perhaps as a separate article. 
There is also the inclusion of unique examples of Metafiction which are very interesting, but not appropriate examples of "common devices", because they are either not common, or not notable. Its more of a trivia list. For example, television shows where the character sings the show's theme song- there's a nice collection of examples- but is that really notable? Godel, Escher, Bach is a nice reference because the major theme is self-reference, but it also contains unusual and unique examples that do not illustrate "Common Metafictive Devices."
"Metafiction is primarily associated with Modernist and Postmodernist literature, but is found at least as early as the 9th century One Thousand and One Nights, Cervantes' Don Quixote and Chaucer's 14th century Canterbury Tales." Really I think that list should be enough for written literature, covering the earliest, most influential example and the earliest well known English example.  Don Quixote came out in January 1605, maybe that's already too much.
Sadly Tristram Shandy(1767) by Laurence Sterne has been left off, but if I added now it would defeat the argument here.
with authors and works such as John Barth's Lost in the Funhouse, Robert Coover's The Babysitter and The Magic Poker, Kurt Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse Five, and William H. Gass's Willie Master's Lonesome Wife. This is apparently part of a literary movement, although its not clear of the exact relationship between the French noveau roman and English novels that follow. There's an argument to be made for inclusion.
There's a lot that would be better organized under the media rather than devices used: film/animation/cartoon/television/music  Unfortunately it looks like a major rewrite is in order Cuvtixo (talk) 16:11, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. The list is long and unwieldy. It begs the question, "What isn't metafiction?" Some brave soul needs to wave a pointed stick at all the English Department village explainers here and cut this list down to size. SCFilm29 (talk) 18:44, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Get Rid of Lists Altogether!! Propose New Article- 

message: Hi guys, I'm very new to Wikipedia editing so please forgive me if I'm breaking any conventions, but I merely wondered if the popular children's story, Jiggy McCue, was worth a mention in this article. Written by Michael Lawrence, all 9 books in the series consist of footnotes at the bottom supposedly written by the story's protagonist, and at times it often references the fact that the protagonist is the narrator and occasionally mentions how the protagonist / narrator is writing down the events described in the book. If any of you know what I'm talking about, do tell me if you think it's worth mentioning.
--Futile Crush (talk) 13:49, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jiggy McCue 

message: This article mentions that "Sam Lowry of Brazil hums/listens to/sings the film's self-titled theme song" but I'm not sure if that's metafictional.  The song is not named after the film; rather, the film was named after the song.  I don't think that this character's attraction to that song is at all related to any sort of idea of him being a character in a film. 70.61.247.31 (talk) 20:33, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brazil 

message: Not only was the show's theme song about being asked to write a theme song for the show, including the line, "How do you like it so far?  It's almost halfway finished," but in one episode Garry tunes the TV only to find himself watching his own show, apparently this episode.  This is going well beyond just breaking the fourth wall, which went on constantly throughout the show's run.  75.225.109.210 (talk) 04:49, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry to quibble on spelling but you probably mean It's Garry Shandling's Show? I agree from the description (I don't really recall the show myself) that it is quite metafictional. Joshua Davis (talk) 21:55, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''It's Garry Shandig's Show'' 

message: Is this really metafiction. It is about the writing of the guide but in the guide is meant to be non-fictional within the Hitchhiker universe. Even if it is metafiction (I would be the first to admit i am not hugely knowledgeable about this topic, I would say it is not a particularly clear example so should be removed. Schizocarp (talk) 11:02, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I would say that HHGTTG is clearly not an example of metafiction. The "Guide" referred to within the pages of the novel is clearly not the novel itself, but rather an encyclopedia which the novel quotes from time to time. Schoolmann (talk) 17:27, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy 

message: The TV show community makes several runs at the fourth wall, but I'm not sure which of the categories there already is it would fit into.--Ollyoxenfree (talk) 23:41, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Would Community fit somewhere in here? 

message: Under History it says:
...metafiction is specifically fiction about fiction, i.e. fiction which deliberately reflects upon itself
But isn't it that fiction about fiction doesn't necessarily have to reflect upon itself but otherwise reach the meta-realm?
For instance fiction can construct settings and use plot devices to explore fiction itself.
For example I think A Dream of Wessex is such a case.
Please check if that sentence / the article needs to be changed.
And if it doesn't need to be changed what about a :Category:Fiction about fiction (or sth similar)?
--Fixuture (talk) 23:06, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, how about fictional characters, or – for example – brands, existing solely within fiction? I was brought here by the category :Category:Metafictional characters, which includes the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man, which did not exist as a commercial mascot in the real world when Ghostbusters was released (although the Stay Puft brand has now been "defictionalised" and packs of marshmallows branded thus can be bought, with the mascot on it, as Ghostbusters merchandise). This is a somewhat different case than Itchy & Scratchy, for example, because it's not a story or show, but an obviously fictional character associated with a commercial brand which is also purely fictional. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 01:10, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fiction about fiction =/= self-reflection about being fiction 

message: :Category:Metafictional characters has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. RevelationDirect (talk) 16:24, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: [[:Category:Metafictional characters]] has been nominated for renaming