Talk:Ruby character

message: Though it serves as an example of one kind of ruby usage, I wonder if the katakana ruby for Tokyo is a practical example.  Since the word Tokyo is not a foreign word, katakana is inappropriate.  Since I don't know too much Japanese, I am curious to know the answer.  Any taker?  Kowloonese 03:20, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Sometimes, furigana for kun-yomi is written in hiragana, while furigana for on-yomi is written in katakana.  — Gwalla | Talk 18:30, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: So are you saying the opposite is ture?  Since Tokyo is on-yomi, it should not be using hiragana in the Ruby.  i.e. one of the two examples is bad practice.  Kowloonese 18:38, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: No, neither is bad practice. They just have different uses. --Marnen Laibow-Koser (talk) 20:37, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Katakana for Tokyo

message: The ruby characters showed up in my version of Mozilla Foxfire v.0.9.2 for MS Windows, so the support must have been added. gK 15:34, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Can someone confirm this please? Chameleon 15:45, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I have the most recent version of Firefox (1.0).  I deleted the Koan plug-in in order to see if Firefox could handle the Ruby by itself, and it couldn't.  I'm going to have to reinstall Koan now.  Chameleon 22:21, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Firefox support?

message: The article says that Wikipedia doesn't support complex ruby. How can this be? AFAIK, Wikipedia supports (i.e. doesn't interfere with) any and all legitimate HTML constructs. Why should there be a difference here? --Marnen Laibow-Koser (talk) 20:38, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Weird. I did some testing in the Sandbox and found that apparently Wikipedia doesn't recognize that <r(b|t)c> is legitimate markup, so it converts the < > to < > -- which of course kills the tag. I suppose we can expect this to be fixed in a future release from MediaWiki... --Marnen Laibow-Koser (talk) 15:11, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Wikipedia complex ruby support

message: the ruby thing is entirely a Japanese thing. In Chinese texts, one only see it in grade-school materials or dictionaries.  The many places implies its use in Chinese really should be taken out.
Xah Lee 11:12, 2005 Mar 1 (UTC)
:Ruby is a useful tool for teaching Chinese. — Chameleon 19:22, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It is used elsewhere in Chinese. In Buddhist texts, as a pronunciation aid (and through an entire book of mine), for example. Especially Taiwan, as you might expect.Apeman 03:30, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I have a book of Buddhist text which was published in Mainland China. And yes it has Hanyu Pinyin ruby text (since many characters are not read in the usual way). The usage of ruby text outside this and kids books is rare here, though. --Ahyangyi (talk) 15:20, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  ruby in Chinese 

message: Give kanji and hanzi for Japanese and Chinese terms.
"Zhuyin is not as easy to read when presented horizontally.": Say why.
Substantiate your claims.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.201.31.246 (talk • contribs) 
Moved from Talk:Ruby characters -- ran (talk) 22:24, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Add Chinese chars 

message: I took out this sentence from the first paragraph:
::At one time, ruby was called "agate" in the United States.
as this is referring to ruby the typeface, not ruby the 'small, annotative characters that can be placed above or to the side of a character when writing logographic languages such as Chinese or Japanese to show the pronunciation'. If you are unaware that rubi characters are ultimately named after an annotative typeface for English, then this is really confusing as it jumps from one meaning to another. The typeface is talked about further down in the History section. — Moogsi 20:36, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Tho if you think the typeface deserves a better place in the article then please put it back in the first paragraph. But distinguishing it from the Japanese meaning, cos I had to go to Agate and back to know it was referring to a font. — Moogsi 20:47, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Agate? 

message: The Ruby notation on Four-character idiom seems to be working incorrectly. Can someone take a look? Shawnc 01:30, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The examples sections look fine to me. IE6/Win32 renders them nicely. Firefox 1.5.0.4/Win32 doesn't support ruby markup, so it "falls back" to parenthesized text as expected (since HTML renderers are supposed to ignore tags they don't recognize). What were you observing that was incorrect? —mjb 07:51, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Four-character idiom]] 

message: What's the difference between ruby characters and furigana?  —Tamfang 19:46, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  furigana 

message: Well, at least according to WP:MOS-JA → "Do not use the  tag to further annotate the kanji, as many browsers cannot display it properly, and it does not degrade gracefully." Evidently that's a codified guideline among Japanese Wiki-editors, and it was subsequently cited in an ongoing discussion/dispute as a reason for me to remove said helpful and clarifying hiragana ruby tags from a mangaka's name in kanji on a Wikipedia article. What does everyone here think; agree or disagree?
 – Bakemono 04:51, 01 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The use of the word "mangaka" certainly shows your affinity for using Japanese words in place of equivalent English ones, so your desire to uphold the usage of Japanese text is understandable by extension. Have you considered the potential that writing a name fully in kanji then with its furigana in following parentheses would be easier to look up in a search, instead of splitting up the furigana in markup? Do what's better for text searching, and you know which method to use. You should just use ruby on outside websites.--75.18.163.141 08:11, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I do see that as a good idea myself, and it would look a lot better that way. There are also quite a few other good points here as well. I have taken a single year of Japanese and am going to take one next year, but kanji was never really gone over in the first year of it—the instructor said that it would be more of a focus the second year. IMO it is harder to search for something in kanji than in furigana, unless you have a lot of experience with a Japanese IME (in which I only have a little). One thing to note is that I don't really do much of anything in that area (I've looked up a couple articles in that scope, but that is about the end of it). impinball (talk) 06:02, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ruby Usage In Japanese Generally Frowned Upon On Wikipedia? 

message: Is it possible to code basic ruby so that it doesn't show up at all when the browser lacks support? I'm trying to write a document with ruby support, but I would rather not have all of the parentheses appearing for users without ruby support. Anybody know? (This is not related to Wikipedia!)  freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ  11:59, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: XHTML Markup

message: "Most Chinese ruby characters are written with the zhuyin (also known as bopomofo) syllabary, but pinyin is also occasionally used."
This is probably biased, and I'm wondering if there is any evidence that testifies "most". Actually pinyin is much more widely used in mainland China, esp. in primary school textbooks, dictionaries and when typing Chinese characters. Those zhuyin symbols are not taught in schools and most mainlanders have never used them. Puppy8800 (talk) 04:26, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Pinyin and zhuyin

message: It should be noted that as of 22 Sep 2009 HTML 5 is an Editor's Draft. (ref: HTML5: A vocabulary and associated APIs for HTML and XHTML, World Wide Web Consortium, URL = http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#the-ruby-element) It appears that HTML 5 will not support complex ruby. -- allen四names 03:23, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Any particular reason why the upcoming HTML standard is not even mentioned in this article, while obsolete XHTML 1.1 is?87.162.29.223 (talk) 05:33, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: XHTML 1.1 is not obsolete; like HTML 4.01, it's a current recommendation and is actively used in XML applications, e.g. for storing HTML fragments in XML used by web content generation systems. HTML5 probably isn't mentioned in the article just due to relative lack of interest (not a lot of people even see this article), and maybe also the WP:SPECULATION policy which discourages writing about future events. You might be WP:BOLD and add a mention of it to the markup section anyway, carefully worded to avoid implying that HTML5 will ever be completed. —mjb (talk) 08:40, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

text: I would like to add a section on HTML 5 support of the , , and  tags in Safari, Chrome, FireFox and IE.  At the present time, most of these browsers handle all of the tests for "Simple ruby" (but fail the multi-line/complex tests.)  http://www.w3.org/International/tests/tests-html-css/list-ruby.  Would there be any objection to adding a small section under the existing XHTML 1.1 section?  Don.Kosak (talk) 17:58, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ruby annotation in ''HTML 5'' 

message: The current definition has problems, probably because it began as a description of a specific Japanese use, and what's being defined has become more general over time:
 Ruby characters are small, annotative glosses that can be placed above or to the right of a Chinese character when writing languages with logographic characters such as Chinese or Japanese to show the pronunciation. Typically called just ruby or rubi, such annotations are usually used as a pronunciation guide for relatively obscure characters.
*though ruby annotations may have originated with Japanese (or Chinese or Korean), they can be used for any kind of text, and are specified in this more general way on the web. So the meaning of the term is now broader, and the definition should reflect that, even if the original and most common use in Asian texts should be acknowledged.
*"ruby characters"? "ruby annotations" seems better. or "ruby text".
*ruby annotations aren't just used for pronunciation. They can be used to indicate meaning, or for some other annotation purpose. "often" would be better than "usually".
*does anyone outside Japan call them "rubi"? The use of "ruby" by itself as a noun is a bit strange to me, but not unheard of?
*it seems wrong to call them "glosses", since that term relates more specifically to meaning, not so much to pronunciation. Also "annotative glosses" sounds unnecessarily technical.
* the title of the article is "Ruby character", but this term doesn't make sense to me, since a ruby annotation can be composed of several characters. I don't think this is a common use and it shouldn't be the title of this article.
I'm putting this up here for discussion before making any changes as I am no expert on the subject. Also I feel a bit lazy to make so many changes :-) --Kai Carver (talk) 17:33, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'm curious about the breadth of this term too. If we're just talking about uses regarding Chinese & Japanese, then the stuff regarding the Bible, for instance, should be moved elsewhere (to Interlinear glossing, maybe?). babbage (talk) 23:25, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Definition too specific 

message: As Ruby the programming language also came from Japan I can't but help think there could be a link here? Does anybody know? Mathmo Talk 06:47, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ruby the Language 

message: Markup example in the article is rendered fine in Safari 4.1.3 (Mac OS 10.4.11).  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.63.83.181 (talk) 10:20, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Safari support 

message: I was under the impression that ruby characters had their origin in rubrics, particularly as described in Rubric#Instructions_in_liturgical_contexts:
: 
Rubrics were typically printed in red ink, hence the etymological relation to ruby.
Does anyone know more about this?  Does it merit mention in the article body?  -- Eiríkr Útlendi | Tala við mig 18:55, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: As noted in Ruby character#History, the name is from the traditional point-size name, not from the gemstone. I don't think they are related. --Kusunose 04:37, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  To expand a bit, a rubric often is an "interlinear annotations in printed documents", which is what the 5.5-point ruby type was used for.  What I dimly recall reading is that the name for the type size came from this use for printing rubric text, but I cannot remember in sufficient detail to add to the article.  -- Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 07:10, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Relation to [[rubric]]? 

message: This portion is entirely unhelpful and seems not to be discussing ruby at all. Also, having looked at the document it cites, at least quickly, nowhere is the little tsu mentioned at all. However, I'm new to editing wikipedia and I don't know the policy for removing portions outright - what should be done here?
Telmac (talk) 15:22, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Remove discussion of japanese gemination marker ("little tsu") in uses section 

message: Is there a font tool which similarly allows 1 line of text to be written atop another line of text, but where they are of equal size instead of small on big like ruby? Or perhaps to have big on small as its inverse? If there is, I am wondering if I could do an article for them in the see also. Ranze (talk) 21:20, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Newline —ajf (talk) 18:04, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Similar but equal

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Ruby character. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070228150240/http://web.nickshanks.com/stylesheets/ruby.css to http://web.nickshanks.com/stylesheets/ruby.css
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 05:20, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified