Talk:Toc H

message: It would be good to see a little up to date information about Toc H activities here.
(Cheddington2001 13:14, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep. And an up-to-date external link for Toc H UK! 86.132.136.52 14:48, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Hi. Your lack of response here is undoubtedly a function of lack of watchers. Having just floated in, I'll comment, though.  A look at the history shows this has been under way for nearly seven years with only a handful of contributors, few if any writing from NPOV. Hotspur23, for example, made a number of extensive changes (like this one), describing them in his edit summaries as M for minor. You ask whether [replacing the entire article with a version officially prepared by first-party interests] breaches protocol. The answer is quite simple: "Neutral point of view" is one of Wikipedia's three core content policies. The other two are "Verifiability" and "No original research". (See here. If you need reminding about what Wikipedia is, a succinct statement can be found at WP:ENC. You've been commendably honest about the unacceptable breaches, but should now accept that you have actually increased justification of the "advert" and "primary sources" templates, which should therefore not have been lifted. Cheers, Bjenks (talk) 03:33, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

message: The currently available sources mention that artefacts were moved from Belgium to Clayton's church in London, All Hallows by the Tower—and moved back in 1929. I can't find a reasonable explanation for this. Maybe Clayton had become too controversial for the C of E, or a new vicar needed the space for his own purposes.  Also, the sources don't go into the ownership (and any changes therein) of "the large home of the Coevoet family" at Poperinge which became Talbot House in 1915. 
A page named The story of Talbot House reports (without sourcing) When the Great War was over Monsieur Camerlynck, the hop merchant, returned. However, he was overwhelmed by the number of ex-soldiers who came knocking at the door to see the old house again, and put it up for sale. In 1929 Lord Wakefield of Hythe bought the house for £9,200 and donated it to the Talbot House Association. This is the reason for the official twinning of Poperinge with Hythe in Kent, England.Presumably the present owners have only a commercial interest in its past association with Toc H. This accords with the unsourced statement in the current article In 1930, thanks to the generosity of Lord Wakefield, one of Tubby’s dreams came true when the original Talbot House in Poperinge was bought for the movement. It remains in the hands of the Talbot House Association – an Anglo-Belgian organisation. Who and what is that association precisely? Maybe it would be a help if an editor "on the spot" could go there and try to document that situation more fully. Cheers, Bjenks (talk) 05:35, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Personally, I don't doubt what you are conveying, and the ideal place for the original research is the comprehensive book you are working on. In the mean time (if we wish to have a Wikipedia monograph), we are quite properly constrained by the policies of Wikipedia which require reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. Clearly, this is not instantly feasible but an exercise in gradual improvement (over years if necessary). It is par for the course that at any point during this process, the article may become disorganized or contain substandard writing. Like you, I've had my moments of impatience with Wikipedia but have come to respect the principles, which prevent obscure colleges from including their histories and staff directories and prevent me from including my own family history from the 17th century, etc., etc.  I apologise profoundly if my goodwill and efforts to find sources have resulted in the inclusion of objectionable "fables". However, you and anyone else have the option and right to discard such content and replace it with better-sourced verifiable content, as per the editing process. None of your previous contributions have been lost—they can be resurrected at any time from a relevant page from the history, e.g., as at [July 27, 2010]. Cheers, Bjenks (talk) 02:53, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Upper Room chapel artefacts 

message: Could someone who understands Wikipedia add something on how and why support dwindled? 
It is a complex web of Tubby Clayton and the charity's association with Jimmy Savile, Prince Andrew, Colin Gregg, and various others.
https://www.discogs.com/Tubby-Tuby-Talking-Informal-Conversations-With-The-Rev-Dr-P-B-Clayton-Founder-Padre-Of-Toc-H/release/2831554
Tubby Talking: Informal Conversations With The Rev. Dr. P. B. Clayton, Founder Padre Of Toc H (Toc H ‎– TH 01) Vinyl, LP.
http://calmview.bham.ac.uk/GetDocument.ashx?db=Catalog&fname=Toc+H.pdf 
Tubby Clayton was of course close to Jimmy Savile, the TOC-H archives have various items. 
https://goodnessandharmony.wordpress.com/tag/toc-h/
1970 – Colin Gregg was involved in the TOC H charity in the 70’s – when Jimmy Savile was also involved.
2A00:23C5:B382:B301:9072:419A:3933:9C09 (talk) 21:20, 18 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reasons support dwindled