Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Japan-related articles/Archive 6

message: hello everyone, I don't know if there is a rule for this or not, but I have a question regarding the hyphens in names "xxxx no xxxx". for example it's Ninigi-no-Mikoto with the hyphen, but it's Soga no Kitashihime. so what is it? I personally prefer the version without hypens, since that would come more closer to the original japanese version, but I was wondering what others think? also one more question, so is it settled now with the macrons, they will be used on all japanese words and terms? except for example for Tokyo or Shinto, etc...? domou arigato. Gryffindor 14:27, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would personally prefer no hyphens. This hasn't been set in stone, however. I'd say that unless it's a combination last name (e.g., "Smith-Jones"), no hyphens should be used. As for the macron issue, we're just waiting for the mediation to take place. There's a large backlog on the mediation page, so it may be a while. If you go by the discussion above, however, the majority of people seem to accept the use of macrons, and the MOS-JA has been changed to reflect that. --日本穣 20:33, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

text: My thought on it is that if it's a divinity (Ninigi-no-Mikoto), place (Clacton-on-sea) or hyphenated name (Smith-Jones), then it goes hypen.  Otherwise, don't bother with them.  As for macrons, I personally prefer them, but it's currently awaiting Mediation.--み使い Mitsukai 14:47, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Recent discussions were about macrons in article titles, not macrons within the text of articles. Macrons within articles were fully established in or before 2004, but macrons in article titles were not then possible and that's the issue that we discussed a month or two ago. Within articles, long-standing policy is to use macrons for words and names that aren't fully established in English. As Gryffindor notes, "Tokyo" and "Shinto" are examples of words that we write without macrons. Fg2 22:00, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Right, that's what I meant, if macrons are used in the article titles. I would support using them, is there a place to vote or has that been closed already? And also the use of hyphens (or not using them basically) I guess we can discuss that here, right? Gryffindor 22:44, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it was discussed multiple times, and a decision was finally made and is reflected in the current WP:MOS-JA. Hopefully that will answer your questions regarding macrons in titles. (^_^) --日本穣 22:59, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah I see so for example articles like junihitoe and Empress Kojun can be moved now to macros? or do they need to be submitted first for a move discussion? Gryffindor 14:06, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

text: The last I heard, the macrons-in-titles debate was still undecided as we await Mediation on the matter. I'd wait until that process finishes before any wholesale moves get underway. As for the titles of new articles, I'd say do what you feel comfortable with. I prefer macrons, myself. — BrianSmithson 14:20, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I think it is good to wait for the mediation before making changes to existing articles.  For new articles, if you macron the title, be sure to create redirects from the unmacron'd version as well. Neier 15:58, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wakarimashita. ok, so now for the hyphens. yes or no? I say no hyphens, what do you folks think? Gryffindor 18:26, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: @I personally prefer the version without hypens, since that would come more closer to the original japanese version, but I was wondering what others think?: Actually, the "no" is not written in the kanji versions in the articles. Since "no" is a genetive marker (particle), or at least that's what I think it is, it would make sense to spell it without hyphens, because that's what everyone else seems to do. (Even though I prefer to have a hyphen before particles, but I know that my taste in this matter is pretty unique.) Shinobu 02:56, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  using hyphens in name