Talk:Moe Berg

message: Berg wasn't particularly observant, so I'm considering deleting Jewish from the page, or at least moving it out of the first paragraph. Any comments?
SeanO 12:58 27 Jul 2003 (UTC)
Was he Jew of religion or race? Thats the question. If he was Jew of race then the word Jewish should not be removed.
Antonio Jews are Hot Martin
According to his most recent biography, he was not religiously observant, but there were a few times when being Jewish affected people's reactions to him, and a few times when he commented on how it helped him maintain the sense of being an outsider in mid-20th-century America. DavidWBrooks 13:55, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: Jewish

message: SeanO, Thanks for catching the Powers, not Harris mistake. I was confusing Thomases. ww 17:26, 23 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: SeanO

message: From The Catcher Was a Spy - "... the International League had ever done that. The Chicago Cubs offered Reading $25,000 for him. Chicago's South Side franchise, the White Sox, however, had earlier contracted with Reading for a $6,000 option on Berg, which they exercised. Berg finished the season with ..." Gorrister 22:02, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: White Sox

message: Information needs to be added on why he rejected the medal of freedom (if known) Nil Einne 16:32, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Rejected

message: Anyone know why the last version was reverted Long levi 06:50, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If it is my reversion of Tecmo, that was done because he had deleted good links.  He has just been banned from Wiki indefinitely for that activity here and elsewhere.--Epeefleche 16:46, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

text: *Most of those links were not in the version that was reviewed during the FA process.  I have to think that they should be removed again.  Why do they belong? Long levi 23:16, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Articles, FA or not, are certainly not static on Wikipedia, so their prior absence is not a reason for removal.  There is discussion on the Wikiproject baseball page of some such ELs, such as Fangraphs.  Which do you think do not belong, and why?--Epeefleche 02:40, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revert? 

message: Cool subject, but article seems sourced almost entirely from one book.  Seems marginal as a featured article for that reason. 207.241.238.217 (talk) 07:18, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree, futhermore several sections are poorly written, how did it ever get FA status?  For example there are several references to him being Jew, and that somehow he didn't relate to being Jewish.  Apparently his father had an issue with Jews, but it is not at all clear what it is or even why it is important.  Since this is all from basically one source I get the feeling that I am being given the POV of just a few people and probably one author (the book) which may not really reflect on Moe Berg.  Arzel (talk) 13:09, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

text: Yes, the References section being full of a single source is surprising.  Tempshill (talk) 17:18, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

text: Seems to me you guys need to know a little more about the historiography of a subject before being so hard on the sourcing of an article.  Moe Berg is a third-string catcher who is primarily remembered today for being so darned odd.  In the grand scheme of baseball and the OSS both, he was not that important, so there is little scholarly literature on him.  The Catcher Who Was a Spy is the only monograph about the guy that exists, and that is supplemented by a few biographical entries in baseball encyclopedias and the like.  FA requires comprehensiveness and sourcing, which this article provides.  There is no requirement that X number of sources are used, only that "the relevant body of published knowledge" is represented.  Because there are so few sources on Berg, this is the best you get, and the FA criteria are satisfied. Indrian (talk) 20:47, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: FYI:  I've got no dog in this hunt, but thought I should point out that there are a few books on Berg, in addition to the 1995 The Catcher Was a Spy.  There's 1996's Moe Berg:  The Spy Behind Home Plate (), 1975's Moe Berg:  Athlete, Scholar, Spy (), 1996's The Amazing Life of Moe Berg (), 1991's The Strange Story of Moe Berg, Athlete, Scholar, Spy (ASIN B0006DDIBY), 1976's My Brother, Morris Berg:  The Real Moe (ASIN B0006EATBK).  Some of these are hard to find, and one or more may be a juvenile, but nonetheless, there are certainly more than one book on Berg.  And it does seem that some additional sourcing was certainly possible.  I know there are differences in opinion or interpretation between The Catcher Was a Spy and Moe Berg:  Athlete, Scholar, Spy, as I've read both carefully.  Anyway, as I say, FYI.  Monkeyzpop (talk) 21:21, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, seems to me I need to know a little more about the historiography of a subject before commenting.  I would agree that more sourcing is in order based on the above.  This article was promoted before the souricng requirements were in place, which is how it was promoted in the first place.  Now, it may need to be reviewed. Indrian (talk) 22:32, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  sourcing 

message: In the "Death" section, it says:
"A nurse at the Newark, New Jersey hospital where he died recalled his final words as, "How did the Mets do today?" (They won.)"
It then cites the fact that the Mets won, but it doesn't cite that his final words as "How did the Mets do today?". 68.193.130.33 (talk) 15:40, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed. Experimental Hobo Infiltration Droid (talk) 05:23, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Death 

message: ...until I saw this in an FA: His Jewish heritage and modest finances combined to keep him on the fringes of Princeton society, where he never quite fit in.Is "fit" really the past participle (or whatever its called) for "fit"? Sounds real hick to my ears. But then, what do I know? almost-instinct 22:35, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've never noticed before you brought this up that we have two different simple pasts for fit, I think depending on whether it's used transitively or--as is the case above--intransitively. Here's the AHD definition. -Eric talk 13:56, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: "Fit in" is an idiom and quite correct in that sentence. Indrian (talk) 20:46, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I know "fit in" is an idiom and I know that it is quite apposite in that context, I was merely raising an eyebrow at the inflexion (sorry, we're AE here aren't we?) inflection, or rather, the seeming lack of one. Eric's link kindly pointed me in the right direction. In BE—as far as I can tell from my dictionary—the past participle of "fit" is always "fitted". But doubtless I'll turn out to be wrong about that too ;-) almost-instinct 21:07, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  I thought I could speak American English... 

message: I've gone in and cleaned up the writing in the first two paragraphs.  Stuff like "Berg did not apply for a teaching position, join a law firm".  Almostfm (talk) 08:24, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  After World War II 

message: Substituted at 00:16, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Fully 41 of the 54 footnotes in this article refer to just one work: Dawidoff.  The dominance is even more pronounced when one considers the whole paragraphs so sourced to the footnotes that support a single statistic.  There are other books, etc., about Moe Berg out there; these should be used, too. --Piledhigheranddeeper (talk) 13:21, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Over-reliance 

message: :I changed the "Bibliography sub-section to "References cited" (some use Works cited) per MOS:NOTES: . This is a minor correction but is in line with the MOS and does remove confusion. Otr500 (talk) 08:52, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: I am reviewing this article as part of WP:URFA/2020, an initiative to review and improve older featured articles. In looking at this article, I noticed that lots of the citations is to one source, and this concern has been brought up before. Is this article comprehensive? Here are some additional sources that I found on WP:LIBRARY that might be added to the article:
*Baseball's Odd Man Out. Bradner, Liesl. MHQ: Quarterly Journal of Military History. Autumn2020, Vol. 33 Issue 1, p70-76.
** This one's maybe not high quality-RS - see this recent MILHIST discussion. Hog Farm  Talk 18:26, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: [[WP:URFA/2020]]