Wikipedia talk:Hinduism-related topics notice board/Archive 2

message: !--D-Boy 16:09, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Folk metal|Vedic metal]] up for deletion! 

message: I have left some messages regarding tagging of WP Hindu at the talk page of the project. Need some response from you guys. -- Lost(talk) 03:57, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  WP Hindu tagging 

message: help support!--D-Boy 18:37, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Wikipedia:Barnstar_and_award_proposals/New_Proposals#Hinduism_Barnstar]] 

message: this article is having khalistani problems lately.--D-Boy 01:15, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Hinduism and the Sikh Panth]] 

message: This article needs the attention of this project.  Please make the necessary modifications. —Viriditas | Talk 00:26, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Iraivan temple]]

message: barnstars are nice.--D-Boy 07:59, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Wikipedia:Barnstar_and_award_proposals/New_Proposals#Hinduism_WikiProject_Award]] 

message: If I'm not mistaken, Dharma (and related names) is sometimes a Hindu name and is used for males. If this is correct, it should be mentioned in Dharma and Dharma (disambiguation) IMHO and probably also Dharma and Greg (since it's a female in that case) Nil Einne 16:45, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: One would not name a child 'dharm'. Perhaps, one may have a name that includes dharm such as the tatpurusa dharmraj, used to identify Yudistir. I am not, at least, familiar with dharm as a common name, at all. ॐ नमःशिवाय Śaiva Sujīt सुजीत ॐ 02:35, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree it is not a common Indian/Hindu name. It was used an American sitcom for a female character and that is as far as it goes. GizzaChat © 03:22, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I watched that show.  her name is supposed to refer to the concept.  she says so in the show.  even does yoga.--D-Boy 04:06, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is a very common name among North Indians, Dharmaraj, Dharmapal, Dharma Kumar, Dharma Singh, Dharma Das, etc. Even in South India, there are umpteen Dharmarajas, Dharmalingams, Dharmadasas etc. Aupmanyav 12:49, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dharma 

message: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Stub_sorting/Proposals/2006/December#.7B.7BSikh-bio-stub.7D.7D.2C_Category:Sikh_religious_figures please provide input.Bakaman 04:54, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Stub proposal

message: which one are we going with here?--D-Boy 05:22, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shaivism or Saivism 

message: Here is my proposal:
* For terms (like Moksha, Puja, Shaivism)  
** Use simplified transliteration in general. 
** In addition if the term is defined in the article (as opposed to being only a part of a long list; for instance see "Indra, Agni, Soma, Varuna, Mitra, Savitri, Rudra, Prajapati" in "Devas and Devis" section) we should spell it out in IAST (or IPA) to give the user a pronunciation guide; and also in devanagiri. 
** This additional information should be added at the point where the term is defined, and not necessarily where it is first used, for instance "Brahman" should be spelled out in IAST etc in the "Brahman" section, even though the term is first used in the introduction.
* For shlokas/mahavakyas etc:
** Simply use IAST since it may too redundant to provide the simplified transliteration too. A casual reader will anyway be interested only in the Englist translation, while an interested reader will care to know the pronunciation which only IAST/IPA provides.
Your comments? (I realize that ideally these conventions should be settled on on a project-wide basis, but it may be easier to reach a working consensus here). Abecedare 05:57, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I support all of your proposals. GizzaChat © 06:41, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't like the simplified transliterations. Can we have a box at the top of the article, like the one that says "this page contains indic text" and links to the article with instructions on how to enable it etc., that would say "this page uses IAST transliterations", that links to an article with the pronunciation guide / compatability instructions? Simply providing a transliteration for sacred sanskrit mantras is a boon to all readers, but making that transliteration simple, and dumbed down is not necessary, in my opinion. ॐ नमःशिवाय Śaiva Sujīt सुजीत ॐ 07:53, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Saiva, you'll note that I do propose using IAST for shlokas/mantras etc. Are you suggesting that we use IAST for each occurrence of any word on Indian origin ? Abecedare 08:11, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: IAST means we would always have write Krishna as kṛṣṇa, Ganesha as gaṇeśa, Rishi as ṛṣi Parvati as Pārvatī and Pingala as piṅgala. I have five reasons why I think Simplified is better to use:
# It takes me a long time to search for these symbols in the symbols box when on the editing page.
# It will take a long time for people who do not understand IAST to learn it. It is like learning a quarter of a new script. I don't think non-experts should be required to learn IAST when reading the Hinduism article. The only requirement should be an interest in Hinduism.
# It looks ugly. The only ugly letter in simplified IMO is "chh," but it is rare.
#The names of the articles on Wikipedia are not spelt in IAST but in simplified. It is a hassle to do this Śiva instead of this Shiva. If you want articles names to also use IAST, bear in mind that nobody will type in the search box śaktī when it is easier to type Shakti.
# Those with old computers or browsers will have squares appearing where any letter with diacritics is meant to appear ane we can't tell them to update because most of the people seeing this article don't edit on Wikipedia.
Thank you. GizzaChat © 08:53, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Naming Convention 

message: Saiva, why do you spell "Brahmacharya" as brahmacarya.  You are omiting "h".  My earnest suggestion to you would be why should we fall in line with westerns to spell our words wrongly?  Is there no difference in pronounciation of "Ch" and "C"?  swadhyayee 03:50, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was under the impression that Brahmacarya was spelled with च and not छ. As I understand it, and I may be wrong, च is transliterated as, c and छ is transliterated as ch. If it is actually spelled with छ, then I am wrong altogether! ॐ नमःशिवाय Śaiva Sujīt सुजीत ॐ 03:54, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: He is writing in IAST instead of simplified transliteration. It is like his name - Saiva instead of Shaiva. I recommend using the simplified version because not only some of the editors here not familiar with it but most of the non-editors (people who only read Wiki articles) wouldn't be familiar with not and it will confuse them. words like rishi become rsi (with dots below "r" and "s"). Most people reading the Wiki-article won't know IAST and in old computers letters with diacritics appear as squares. GizzaChat © 03:59, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Here is a useful resource with comparative tables: Romanization of Sanskrit. Abecedare 04:03, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Swadhyayeeji, out of ch and chh I chose ch, but because I use the IAST system, which I feel is more accurate, and I thought what we had been using in the Hinduism article, I write it as c. If you would like to enable support for Indic fonts, I was shown this link: WP:INDIC. ॐ नमःशिवाय Śaiva Sujīt सुजीत ॐ 04:16, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

text: did u you read the dharmic naming coventions?--D-Boy 08:46, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Saiva, Why do you spell this way? 

message: Ayyavazhi in my opinion is a Hindu sect founded in Tamil Nadu. The followers disagree. Please see this discussion and the Ayyavazhi and offer your own opinion (not here but on the Talk:India/Ayyavazhi page). Thank you. GizzaChat © 23:14, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't even know it exsisted until I read it on wikipedia but I agree that it's a Hindu sect.--D-Boy 04:39, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Talk:India/Ayyavazhi]] 

message: I am requesting help for the Tantra article. It is clearly marked as a Hindu article, yet it still has a section on Buddhist Tantra which already has its own article Vajrayana, and "neo-tantra" which also has its own article neotantra or somesuch. Tantra should be about tantrika parampara, however many of the editors working on that article are not familiar with the nature of Tantra. ॐ नमःशिवाय Śaiva Sujīt सुजीत ॐ 09:08, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I glanced through the article and didn't recognize the section you are referring to. Can you point out the specific Buddhist section ? (By the way, I know next to nothing on the topic; so perhaps can serve as a substitute for a "typical reader" towards whom the article should be aimed :-) ) Abecedare 10:03, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Currently, Tantrika_Parampara is a redirect to Tantra. The Buddhist and Neotantra have their own articles so I believe Hindu Shiva-Shakti Tantra should have its own article. That way, the main Tantra page can talk about all forms of Tantra. GizzaChat © 10:28, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tantrika article 

message: :Gauranga, Brahmaji obtained Veda (knowledge) after tapas and because of that the 'dharma'. He cannot be termed as a hindu, we are. Religions did not come untill Akhenaten (I say this and only this is true). I do not believe in existence of soul, but in my view, those who do not know have many kinds of misunderstandings, religion is one of them.
:Swadhyayee, it is for me to evaluate what I believe and for others to evaluate what they believe. I would not do the comparision for them. It may happen that my deduction of truth is different from their's. I believe in 'Tatwamasi' and I believe in 'chaitanya' in everything, even in a stone. If anyone differs, they are welcome to it. Of course, a christian or a muslim also is Brahman, Ekameva-Adviteeyam, only I think they have not understood a particular point, just as many hindus also might not have understood it.
:Bakaji, Sri Krishna talks about 'dharma' and never about hinduism, that dharma which is for everyone and for all times. It is His 'Maya' and our ignorance which makes us a hindu, a christian, or a muslim. And thanks for moving the discussion to the notice board. Aupmanyav 05:45, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Dear friend, as I have already mentioned, your truth may be different from mine, and Hinduism welcomes it, it is a search for truth. If I cut off my finger, it will still have chaitanya. Each of atoms contained in it will be just as activce. Simialrly each particle of an atom of a stone is constantly in a whirl, giving out energy/particles, taking in energy/particles, changing its properties, from a Baryon to a Boson to a Neutron, etc. That is its inherent property. And is atom a solid ball? No. The recent scientific research shows that it is none other than force, like Aurora Borialis, changes every nanosecond, so that we see a magnificient display, which is nothing more than that. That is what I understand as 'chaitanya'. Unless we understand a phenomenon, how would we be able to describe it in words. So a discussion is necessary. I have never wanted to change the name of the article, though it is well-known that 'dharma' and 'religion' do not mean the same. Who is not 'chaitanya', are you not? Why do you get this feeling in a debate that I feel superior to any body else? I am a hindu and I am just explaining my view which is not wrong according to scriptures. Yes, I do have problems with Christianity and Islam due to their exclusivity. My Hinduism does not believe in exclusivity. I can certainly co-exist with a christian or a muslim, even if he is a terrorist, because he also in reality is Brahman. IMHO, we are on good ground, by birth I am a 'pandit-putra', by profession, I was a shudra (service). What constitutes me will not always be 'Aupmanyav' but it will always be 'chaitanya'. Thanks. Aupmanyav 06:14, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conversion 

message: Perhaps you guys are more knowledgeable about him. Right now the article is quite unencyclopedic, and the criticism section contains a lot of fluff, and very little documentation on his actual theories.Bakaman 19:54, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ha, Wikipedia, you have to have an article on him too! Compulsions of policy.:-( Aupmanyav 17:25, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[P.N. Oak]]

message: It looks dead.T*E*H Kingrom 01:11, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: huh?  it's actually be more active.  people actually joined.  before it was worse.--D-Boy 14:37, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: wikiproject saivism

message: Hi,
Some random guy recently created Hindu extremism. It is primarily an attack page. Moreover it makes no sense to have this article when we already have articles on Hindutva. Do voice your opinions at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Hindu_extremism.  अमेय आर्यन DaBrood© 20:11, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Hindu_extremism 

message: Moving discussion from Hinduism Talk page here ... Abecedare 07:42, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hence ... ? Are you proposing some expansion/deletion/correction for the section ? Abecedare 06:59, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Excellent, Kanchanmala, that is how one learns. But a cursery investigation at Sacred-texts.com (http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rvsan/rv01164.htm) tells me that the verse 1.164.46 of RigVeda is in the honor of 'Visvedavas', please visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visvedevas for more information on 'Visvedevas'. Carry on and please do not ji me. Aupmanyav 08:39, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: 'vishve devaah' are the 'devataa' of 'rica's 1 to 41 in the mantra.  The 'devataa' of 'rica' 46 & 47 is 'suryah', and  'rica' 46 goes on to say, "agnim yamam maatarishvaanam-aahuh".  The devanagari texts in both the sources cited by you are full of errors.  By the way, please don't mind if we address you with respect.Kanchanamala 03:33, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Whole hymns are dedicated to particular devas(generally), not individual verses. 164 is to 'Visvedevah' (representing all Gods of the universe). That is why 'They call him Indra, Mitra, Varuna, Agni, and he is heavenly nobly-winged Garutman; to what is One, sages give many a title they call it Agni, Yama, Matarisvan'. Aupmanyav 11:52, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Your assumption is totally different from what I have been taught.Kanchanamala 02:39, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Where have you studied, who has taught you, and what book have you used? Aupmanyav 13:29, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sir, permit me to suggest one way you may consider to check what I have said.  If you live in India, and if you have a university where they have a department of Sanskrit, please check with the faculty member(s) who teach the Vedas or Panini's grammar, or check with a pandit or shastri who is an 'adhyaapaka' of Rigveda.  If they say that what I say is not correct, then you may just ignore what I have said about the Vedic 'devataa's.Kanchanamala 23:44, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks for the advise and letting us know what Griffith would have done ! But it really would be simpler if you just let us know your source for the "correct" translation, so we may remove all errors from this and other article. Abecedare 03:03, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Abecedare and Swadhyayee, Griffith was a great scholar, humble and sincere. He did yeoman service to the study of the Vedas in English.  As for me, I don't need any translation to study the Vedas.  For what I know and say, it can (and should) be checked out.  There is no dearth of learned scholars.Kanchanamala 07:20, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Kanchan, I would check with a Sanskrit professor who is a welknown scholar and the Director of Birla Mandir in Delhi (Dr. Nagar) and let you and other people here know (provided he is not out of India on one of his frequent visits). Aupmanyav 18:46, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Okay.Kanchanamala 02:30, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Many scriptures, many paths. 

message: I'm opposed to the merger.--D-Boy 12:58, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I am too. — Arjun 14:37, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Hindu temples in Multan]] 

message: Currently, it has the complete poem in both Awadhi Hindi and a translation. I think it should be moved to Wikisource. On Wikipedia, we should write about the Hanuman Chalisa, not have the actual poem here. Does anybody disagree? GizzaChat © 09:00, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree. You'll also find it in Devanagari if you dig into the article's history. We should perhaps put that too on wikisource. deeptrivia (talk) 09:06, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Hanuman Chalisa]] 

message: I was reading through some of the wonderful short articles about Rishis such as Shaunaka by DBachmann and I was wondering why they did not have any categorization as Indian history. I feel the thoughts advanced by a number of these people represent a deep historical significance in the progression of Indian history.
Thanks,
Khiray
:Because India has the wierdest separation of church and state.--D-Boy 04:42, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Separation of mandir/gurudwara/stupa and state, merger of church/mosque and state.Bakaman 04:44, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ok I was just asking why these articles are not categorized under Indian History on Wikipedia. Thanks Khiray 01:43, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why no categorization as Indian History? 

message: The Vedic Gods are no more the principal Gods of Hinduism. Vishnu was only a minor God in Vedas. The worship of Vishnu is not as strong in Kashmir, Punjab, and Haryana as compared to what prevails in South India. The identification of Rudra with Shiva at the least is very tenacious. There were supposed to be eleven Rudras. How come they crystalized into one Shiva. The major Gods that hindus worship now are all non-Vedic, Vishnu, Shiva, Shakti, Skanda, Ganesha, Hanuman, Bhairava and other local Gods. Rama and Krishna are not even mentioned in the Vedas. There are legends which show defeat of Vedic Gods, like defeat of Indra by Krishna or defeat of Daksha performing an Aryan ceremony by Shiva. Brahma's worship is prohibited and there are very few temples devoted to him. All these show that apart from Vedic philosophy, there was a very strong and popular philosophy in India. I have no objection to a person believing that Hinduism is Vedic only, but this lame view should not be reflected in the Wikipedia article. I have no hesitation in accepting that the Vedic philosophy affected Hinduism greatly and that Vedas are our most important scriptures, but this does not mean that we should disregard other influences in Hinduism and not give them their due. It is derogatory and fractitious to people who do not think that they are from Aryan stock, and India has a large percentage of such people. Aupmanyav 17:46, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Dravidian is an artificial construct Aupmanyav. Hinduism is based on the Vedas, I personally am a person who in your terms "is not from Aryan stock". After the Vedas came things like Ups. and Agamas. Newer converts to Hinduism Balinese, Meitei, Bodo, Khmer only inculcated the Agamas into their life, just as the Thais, Tibetans only took in Buddhism. Why is everything in your view related to race? Its like people who think Drona was a casteist instead of merely noting that he was selfish and crude. Daksha was merely a vain idiot that got his ass kicked for being too rude and uppity. There's no Aryan/Dravidian/Mongoloid bakwaas in it, it is what it is.Bakaman 18:32, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I recognize Aupmanyav's arguments, with some reservations. I am too distres just now to comment, after Saddam Hussein met a tragic demise from the US manipulated puppet government of Iraq. Cygnus_hansa 20:44, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not to worry, he has merged with Brahman. :-) Aupmanyav 10:11, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Aupmanyav, wasn't he Brahman even before he died :-)? Anyway, I have a question for those who support the Aryan migration theory (I know some people here don't). From what I have learned, it is likely that if the Aryan Theory is correct, the "native" Indians believed in an earlier form of Shaivism and/or Shaktism, since murtis of Pashupati and Mother Goddess have been found. When Vishnu is mentioned in I think the Atharva Veda, he is a solar god. The Bhagawat Purana that Surya and Vishnu are the same God. Could this mean that Vishnu was an Aryan deva rather than a local one? GizzaChat © 12:29, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, he was Brahman even to start with, only that we have a veil before our eyes which does not allow us to see that. It is Brahman which constitutes all substances (living or non-living), time, and space. Reference to Vishnu is Vedas is minor and my personal belief is that it was introduced after Aryans had merged with Indians (you know I am a votary of Tilak and AMT), saying that Vishnu and Surya are same is the our old amalgamation trick. Even Vishnu is perhaps a composite of various regional Gods of India, Krishna from Vraja and Dwarika, Rama from Ayodhya, Parashurama from Gujarat coast, Nri-Simha from Andhra Pradesh, and Vamana from Kerala (reference to Mahabali); just as Durga might be a composite of various mother godesses of India. Finally, they merged everything in Brahman; Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh, and all Aryan Gods; and made the female principle inseparable from it as Maya, that is the final solution. Aupmanyav 06:00, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vedic only 

message: I was wondering whether this would be warranted. We could create a subsect of the Hinduism Project or this noticeboard which can hold a list of various articles which have varying degrees of possible Hindu bias.
*All Hindutva related articles - these articles are normally very controversial
*Articles bearing possible Anti-Hindu biases.
*Articles bearing possible Pro-Hindu biases.
*Articles bearing controversies relating to Hinduism the religion (not political debates on modern Hindus)
Just create it and people will hopefully populate it with articles. Then anyone can go any add the pages on the watch to their watchlist and ensure that bias, both pro and anti-Hindu, is eliminated. Just make sure you're clean on Wikipolicies and make sure you don't exploit this, and I don't think people will have problems with it like they did with the Fundy Watch. Also could have a talk page somewhere for discussions relating to multiple articles dealing with the watch. This is just an idea, there may be something like this already that I don't know about. Nobleeagle  [TALK] [C] 04:55, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Most of the Hinduism-related editors on Wiki aren't concerned with controversies. In fact, most of us are only concerned about the main Hinduism article, because we are so desperately trying to FA it. It might be better for Hindutvaadis to organise their own WikiProject or something and leave the other Hindus alone. GizzaChat © 07:02, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't really see a point in such a thing.  It would either be a Hindu politics project or Hindutva project.  those projects in itself would be bias.--D-Boy 09:04, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No there is no point creating a Hindutva Project, it would be biased as D-Boy said. Anyway, Happy New Year! Nobleeagle  [TALK] [C] 23:05, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: DaGizza I find your comment in bad taste. Those of us who are considered Hindutvavadis ("being Hindu-ists")are the reason that wikipedia has any articles on Hinduism outside of India. In fact were the only reason Hinduism articles are categorized, temples have nice infoboxes, and there are articles on Manipuri history on wiki. Much better than people bickering over esoteric philosophical bakwaas.Bakaman 00:44, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: How was my comment in bad taste? All I suggested was to create a separate Hindutva project where controversial Hindu article can be dealt with. Many members of WP:HINDU can join that project and you can discuss the controversial issues by yourselves but there will other WP:HINDU members who don't want to deal with any of that stuff. There is no reason why the "Hindu-ists" or whatever you want to be called can't be part of the bigger Hinduism project (In fact, most of you are). It would just be a sub-project. And if such a project were to be created, non-Hindus, including those who are considered by some as anti-Hindus will have to be allowed to join the Hindu politics project, so that there will be no bias. I know that Dangerous-Boy and co. are an integral part of the project when it comes to organisation but how is that related to being a Hindutvaadi. GizzaChat © 04:44, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I found "leave the other Hindus alone" to be unsavory. The point dagizza is that those of us who are called Hindutvavadis (which translates into "Hindu-ness-ists") are also the least religious and have the least baggage to carry. What we are doing is also WP:HINDU, though in a more worldly sense. I believe that in the house of dharma they talk of a spiral, the spiral starts with bettering oneself but by the time you reach the exterior, you're work is helping all of mankind. Unlike the Hinduism main page charcha-vadis and bhoudik-vadis, we seem to do all the kaam and seva.  As the Talk:Hinduism page clearly shows, if it wasnt for our efficient style of working the page would still be discourses on esoteric texts which only .00000000000000000000001% of Hindus have ever heard of. The Jews dont have any issues mixing religion and politics, I dont see why we have to let people with obvious biases against our dharma boss us around. Making a "no bias" project makes no sense as said project would be skewed against the Hindus. I've always been an advocate of all around bettering rather than focusing on the main article which frankly sucks for every other belief (besides Sikhism). You all have a watchlist function, use it. We dont need to act like a cabal.Bakaman 06:03, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

text: No, there is no point creating the Hindutva subproject, but just note that oddly enough you gave me the idea Gizza. :) I found a few articles that possessed biases and I remembered the Fundy Watch which you said was a good concept and said something about perhaps creating a similar project...anyway... Nobleeagle  [TALK] [C] 22:11, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Aupmanyav is not stuck on just the Hinduism page, he contributes to Hindu, History of Hinduism, History of Vedic Religion, and Vedas. You cannot expect him to contribute (whatever he can) to each of the Hinduism-related pages (there are too many of them), though he would like to do so. Baks, I consider myself to be a hindutvavadi, but please do not consider all discussion as 'bakwaas'. As you know, all my present efforts are directed against two biases that 1. Hinduism is purely Vedic, and 2. Hinduism is a monotheistic religion. I believe the 'Hinduism' article is already very long, it should be pruned as far as possible, and addition of new subjects should be avoided and taken to new pages, Raja Yoga is perhaps one such example. Aupmanyav 06:19, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Aupmanyavji, it would be all right if you asked to have your viewpoint accommodated in the article.  But there is no need to keep badgering others to exclusively accept your opinions.  Coexistence and accommodation are part of our culture: "titikshaa mata-bhedeshu".Kanchanamala 09:20, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Kanchan, I believe in co-existence and accommodation. I have no problem with people's personal views, but Wikipedia article should not say that Vedas are the exclusive foundation of Hinduism, and that Hinduism in essence is monotheistic and all other ways are unsophisticated. I do not think it is Wikipedia policy to have lopsided views. Aupmanyav 15:56, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

text: To all - I was not referring to any users in particular, though I was referring to a general trend that's been going on since Babub left. I never singled out any user here, though I will direct my ire at the large amount of talking and minimal amount of editing. The fastest way to make articles better is to be bold and a good strategy is to get more traffic to Hinduism pages is to edit pages like January 11 and 1779 and add Hinduism related stuff there, and then edit subpages of the main article.Bakaman 01:09, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: To Baka, I agree with you. It is all of our faults partly. To Aup. I think the issues you are addressing (only Vedic and only monotheistic) have been fixed. This is one of the sentences: Modern Hinduism originates from the ancient Vedic tradition (Vaidika paramparā) and other indigenous beliefs, incorporated over time.  Another part of a sentence: spanning polytheism[citation needed], monotheism, panentheism, monism and arguably even atheism. We have a whole paragraph on atheism here in the later part of the Concept of God section. What more do want? The truth is, no matter how diverse it is, that at the moment (I know it changes a lot) most Hindus believe in a monotheism with some elements of polytheism. The article has to reflect that regardless of how diverse it is. GizzaChat © 02:16, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

text: I agree with you. I was pained at the treatment meted out to references to Konrad Elst's work. He has done good research on the subject, he gives ample reasons, though I too do not agree with him but his views deserve a consideration. Does being a professor of history in some university essential to pursue a research? How come B.G.Tilak wrote such wonderful books. It all depends on the person's integrity and devotion to the subject. Alexander Cunningham was an enginner and a Major-General in British India, but he did excellent work on Indian history as the Surveyor General of Archeological Survey of India. Do you know that he walked 16 miles in a nallah to see whether Alexander's soldiers could have travelled the distance to Jhelum in one night, and he commonly walked around mounds in Punjab and Haryana to find the circumferance to see if they matched with the description given by Huen Tsang or Fa Hian?Aupmanyav 09:53, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Join the club. I had never heard of "Hindutva" before I joined Wikipedia even though I was a fairly religious Hindu and had a reasonable knowledge of it. GizzaChat © 23:42, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hindu bias watch 

message: *A good list of sanskrit words and meanings. I use it on hindi wiki, perhaps we can wikitionary this or something.T*E*H Kingrom 05:02, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Sanskrit glossary

message: See Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_January_1#Category:Former_Hindus and the article Apostasy in Hinduism. The religious texts are essentially silent on apostasy.Bakaman 20:12, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Apostasy in Hinduism]]

message: There are currently about 200 ambiguous links to the disambiguation page at Vedic religion. It would be very helpful if someone with knowledge on the subject could retarget the links to appropriate articles (the links can be found by clicking "What links here" in the toolbox on the left side of the page). The page has been listed for about six months as a problem at Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links, but it seems that no one working there has the know-how to handle the corrections. Disambiguation can be done faster using the CorHomo tool. Please help if you can! Dekimasu 04:05, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Links to [[Vedic religion]]

message: my goodness- the information that is wrong about kamakhya outmumbers the right stuff. I'mnot kidding- it wold be easier to delete the page and start again than to 'fix' —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 59.94.116.70 (talk) 19:06, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The best thing to do is to remove all the wrong information. Even if only two sentences are left over, that will be better than deleting it. You can do it yourself since not that many people here may know the specific part of the Shiva/Sati story that deals with Kamakhya. GizzaChat © 21:58, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Kamakhya]] 

message: See Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Meatpuppetry_and_tag-team_edit-warring. They tried to claim Panini and Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar as Pakistani.Bakaman 19:07, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: On that note, see Talk:History of India to see the whole of Punjab and Sindh's history becoming the history of "Ancient Pakistan". Nobleeagle  [TALK] [C] 05:50, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Of course, I am slightly biased. Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar is probably one of the 5 most brilliant physicists of the last 100 years, easily. And I am a physicist. So I guess I have a slight advantage. but Chandrasekhar was an incredible scientist, there is no doubt about it.--Filll 05:56, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not mind if the Pakistani's claim Panini, He was a resident of Village Salutara (Modern Lahur), Kurram Agency, Federally Administered Tribal Area (http://groups.msn.com/TheSub-Continent, 34.48.00 N, 71.29.04 E, elev. 4397 ft., viewed from alt. 9489 ft, see the small green depression in the front flank of the mountain, perhaps the mountain was greener in Panini's time, the yellow line in the picture is the Afghan border, presently it is a stronghold of Taliban and perhaps the hideout of Osama bin Laden, how times change?). He is theirs. Of course, the ancient history of Punjab and Sindh is the Ancient history of Pakistan. Would not you give the Pakistanis their share of the shared ancient history? Aupmanyav 06:48, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I don't see any problem in their adding Wikiproject Pakistan banner, and it would be great if that encourages them to help improve the article. deeptrivia (talk) 07:06, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We can claim Parvez Musharraf by the same standard, also Iqbal and Faiz, even Jinnah. Aupmanyav 07:19, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Haha... you're right. I agree it's not correct that Panini was a Pakistani, but my point was, let their ego be satisfied if it leads to an improvement in the article..or even if it prevents disruptions of normal work.  Who cares about a template on a talk page. deeptrivia (talk) 07:23, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Uh-uh Deep, the point is to be accurate and verifiable not giving up to an army of trolls. Aupmanyav, Chandrasekhar was an Iyer Tamil Brahmin whos dad merely happened to have a job in Lahore at the time. Attock, Aupmanyav by your own cartography is in Afghanistan, and rightly belongs in Afghan history as well, but certain users dont agree. I could care less if he wasnt marked as Indian and only as Afghan, but definitely not of an artificial construct created in 1947. What we do know or can deduce is that he most probably lived for time in India (Akhand Bharat) and he most probably was Pathan.Bakaman 22:16, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Why does Chandrasekhar have the WP:Hinduism tag ? I thought that it was only for people who did something in the field of relegion and not every Hindu. :Category:WikiProject Hinduism articles too seems mostly to take this line. I agree with deeptrivia above, but I also suspect that the flag hoisters may never come back to improve the article. Tintin (talk) 05:18, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Rest assured, they would come back to destroy the article. There are a legion of Saudi-funded specially trained operatives back there in Pakistani madarsas. Aupmanyav 05:23, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What, just like the way Hindu users receive direct funding in the millions from the BJP to edit Wikipedia articles to pro-Hindu biases? lol. Nobleeagle  [TALK] [C] 05:36, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hey, where's my dough ??? I am ready to redouble my efforts :-) Abecedare 05:42, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Shhhh..... Nobleeagle you've let the cat out of the bag! As for your handouts Abecedare, sorry we dont employ Scousers or Scots ... HSS UK has stricly rules about that! अमेय आर्यन DaBrood© 09:02, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: BJP is broke these days. Wait for a few years when it comes back. Aupmanyav 13:12, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: note

message: Please see the article mantra. I would not comment on it anymore, but this is unbelievable. There's a section that describes a dubious theory for the meaning of the Devanagari symbol for Aum, and my request that it be verified with additional sources has led to all kinds of misunderstandings. Could someone please do something? Regards, deeptrivia (talk) 06:58, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I was not able to find what exactly you were pointing at. A symbol can be interpreted in many ways, the upper semicircle this, the lower semicircle that, and the bindu the absolute. I can see Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh, and Brahman in the symbol. Does it make any difference? Aupmanyav 07:34, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Correct. But aren't these one's personal interpretations. They could be notable only if held by a majority or a significant minority. The article sounds as if the Aum symbol was designed keeping this in mind, while the symbol clearly comes from merging the devanagari "अ" (A) "ऊ" (U) and "ँ" (M) characters and not by joining semicircles and dots symbolizing various things. Besides the devanagari symbol, we have symbols in various languages, like the Tamil symbol on right (and Tibetan, Chinese, Gurmukhi, etc). The theory of semicircles is elegant, but is not given by a scholar or a religious leader, but a Nitin Kumar, an employee of an online store . Aum derives its importance from the three syllables, the vibrations they generate, not its notation used to denote it in Devanagari script (which is less than 800 years old.) deeptrivia (talk) 07:46, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

text: For many cultures it is the written letters that have power -- the Hebrew Kabbalah for instance, or the Anglo-Saxon Runes. Letters can have an oracular function even. But in India special conditions applied that meant that writing was very definitely inferior to the spoken word."
I see this semicircle hypothesis in direct contradiction of all this. deeptrivia (talk) 07:50, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Deeptrivia, I did not say all that I wanted to say in my last post as I had to go somewhere. I am a pan-Indian Indian, that means that whether fair or dark, I consider all Indians as my people, whether one thinks that they are Aryans or whether they think they only are the indigenes, they are all my people, whether Sanskrit, Hindi, Bengali, Telugu, or Tamil, they are my languages. It is just that my mother is Hindi, but Tamil is my maasi (mother's sister), no less than my mother. I fully understand what you say, 'OM' would be written differently in all languages, but it still remain the hindu symbol. 'OM' certainly does not have to be written as in Devanagari. It is again, the first among equals principle. The hindi 'OM' is the best known. As for the semicircles, it is trivia, even if one person's view. Keep it or remove it if other editors agree. Aupmanyav 10:29, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Though the visual representation of Aum is by far secondary to the sound, I think it has developed its own significance. One title of Ganesh is "Omkara" (lit. the body of an Aum) I have seen pictures where Ganesh appears in a position that resembles the visual Devanagari symbol Aum. These are some examples on the internet but not all good ones   . I have seen better. GizzaChat © 00:34, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Om shape symbolism 

message: anyone check this out?--D-Boy 01:59, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The articles added haven't been vandalised. They may have a strong POV but counter-POV is different from counter-vandalism. GizzaChat © 04:08, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Wikipedia:WikiProject India/Counter-vandalism unit]] 

message: Namaste, fellow editors. I realized after poking around wikipedia and the internet that the Bhavaninamasahasrastutih has very little information present, and have since added a little about it on the sahasranama article. This may be because mostly only we kashmiris among other tantrikas use it. I have an old book by Kashmiri Pandit Jankinath Kaul (Kamal) which provides in great detail the meaning of each of the 1000 names, however, it also has the full sanskrit text, which based on my findings is rare, and I would like to preserve this by at the very least transliterating it into IAST, and putting it here somewhere.
I have some questions regarding this, however: 1) as this is an ancient sastra, it is my understanding that the sanskrit text is not under any copyright, and would be legal for me to provide, in its entirety (without the elaborate work of Shri Kamalji) 2) where is the appropriate place to put this transliteration when I am finished with it? i.e., is it ok to just create an article, "Bhavani Nama Sahasra Stuti" and just place my transliteration there, or is there a more appropriate wikimedia project where it should be? 3) I prefer IAST myself, but if there is a more accurate or preferable transliteration scheme / format that i should follow please do tell me.
ॐ नमःशिवाय Śaiva Sujīt सुजीत ॐ 05:29, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia is not the place for adding texts. There is an associated Wikimedia project called Wikisource. That is the place where it has to be put. The Wikipedia page can only be about the Bhavaninamasahasrastutih. It can't have the text itself. On the Sanskrit Wikipedia, somebody added the four Vedas to their respective pages and it was moved to Wikisource. Another example of a text that needs to be moved is the Hanuman Chalisa. GizzaChat © 07:20, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you Gizzaji, that was pretty much what I was thinking about. Also, am I correct in assuming it is fine to transliterate intact portions, if it is from sastra? ॐ नमःशिवाय Śaiva Sujīt सुजीत ॐ 05:08, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bhavani Nama Sahasra Stuti 

message: ...I have updated this portal a little bit by adding a "related portal" box at the bottom and added a new Selected article, picture, and person. Now I know that there is the Selected Text but is that necessary as there will be so much and then we can not update it. Basically I am asking if any one out there would be willing to help update the Portal about every week in the given areas of it. As it is never really updated as the selected article was there since December 2005 :O. Cheers and any help would be very much appreciated. Arjun 04:32, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is possible to get articles on auto-rotation. I know some of the other portals do this, although I'm too new at portals to have ever really done it myself yet. If you want to do that, please contact me directly and I can try to see what I can do. Badbilltucker 14:05, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I used to along with deeptrivia update the Hinduism Portal but it got boring doing it manually. I think you will get bored too if we don't get the articles on auto-rotation. GizzaChat © 00:21, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I have an editor willing to create an auto-rotation. Arjun 04:48, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Portal:Hinduism]] 

message: Sai Baba of Shirdi has been tagged as requiring expert attention. Any such assistance in improving this article would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.  Badbilltucker 14:05, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Article tagged as needing expert attention

message: Can someone please list all the Hinduism Festivals that can be found in January and Early February...along with date? I am asking so I can update the Hinduism portal further. So if any one can it would be so... helpful. Thanks Arjun 21:27, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Here are some websites , , ,  (Best one - goes beyond 2007 up to 2031!) Note the Hindu calendar does not correspond with the Gregorian. I will update the list manually for the time being. Could there be a way to make a program which adds the five closest festivals to the list? I have no idea how it will work even if it can work! And how many should we put? 3-5? GizzaChat © 23:41, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Great those are excellent links! Thank you so much. Arjun 23:44, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah I found one more  GizzaChat © 23:46, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hinduism Festivals

message: Perhaps you guys can add more to that page. Also check out this discussion.Bakaman 22:26, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Hindu mathematics]]

message: An editor, unsurprisingly a Britisher, User:Jezhumble keeps making tendentious edits to it, restoring a bogus sentence edited there by an anonymous vandal  which I neutralized thus. On the talk page, he goes on lengthy diatribes about how all Hindu women are prostitutes or something  and  bringing up everything from Gujarat riots to Narendra Modi to bash Hindus.I grow increasingly weary of telling him to stop Disrupting wikipedia to make a point and ask the intervention of more knowledgable editors regarding Devdasis into this little soiree. Rumpelstiltskin223 09:03, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks like a South Indian practice, which I don't have too much familiarity with. GizzaChat © 23:34, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Devadasi]]

message: On wikipedia there is an article on Omnipotence. I have been trying to put in aspects of other religions into this article, since the article is now mostly (completely) western and christian oriented, edit about ather religions are not edited but simply removed, since I can't place any good references on the matter. As I recall Shiva is seen as omnipotent by Shaivism, Vishnu in Vaishnavism (read this in the Gita) and Shakti in Shaktism. I have to little knowledge on this to place any accurate references, hence my calling here, to also give this aricle an eastern point of view.
Teardrop onthefire 15:44, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Omnipotence article 

message: Dear All - the Shiva article is in need of much improvement. I don't feel it is really doing Shiva much justice in it's present state - giving a number of unsourced and conflicting opinions. Please could anyone with a detailed knowledge of Lord Shiva please take a look. Best Wishes, Gouranga(UK) 22:04, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Alas! We may have to bring our fellow Shaivite to help the article, Saiva Sujit. The "Origin Theories" is mostly Original Research so we might as well remove that completely. According to WP:TRIV, the pop culture section can go. The list of names will be suited on another page (Perhaps we should create a policy, all list of names for gods/goddesses are split with a link to suffice, many of them have 1000 names! Once we split them we can try for WP:FL) The "forms" section needs a lot of cleanup. Most Shaivite sects don't believe in the concept of avatars as in other denominations, at least in the same way. I think we need general standard format for Hindu deities, the most prominent ones with a slightly refined version. Thanks for bringing that up Gouranga! GizzaChat © 11:36, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Shiva

message: Try and fill
*:Category:Converts to Hinduism
*:Category:Hindu politicians
*:Category:Hindus by occupation
*:Category:Hindus by nationality
*:Category:American Hindus
Bakaman 18:37, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think we have a category for indian hindus.--D-Boy 00:21, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Dboy, thats where category Hindu politicians and hindus by occupation comes in.Bakaman 23:12, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Categories

message: if anyone cares, it's on speedy delete.--D-Boy 01:39, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: All we need is to find some info on it and recreate. And no Dboy no one cares, remember us "Hindutva" people are extreme (though I am not religious).Bakaman 23:11, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Hinduism in Turkey]] 

message: Can someone involved in the project help me with the question posted at Talk:Vibhuti? Thanks!  --Knulclunk 14:33, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vibhuti ashes are .... 

message: Moved from Talk:Hinduism
Most Hindus are cremated, but I keep running into contradictory comments regarding the exceptions: sources say variously that children under 5, pregnant women, those who died accidentally, sanyasis and eunuchs are not cremated, but are instead weighed with rocks and cast into a river (preferably the Ganga).  What's the real scoop?  Jpatokal 14:39, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Jpatokal, what you said sounds correct. Within Hinduism, religious leaders such as sannyasis are often buried in salt with mausolea-like structures built over them which are called are called Samadhis - referring to the belief that they have not 'died' in the common sense of the term (i.e to be re-born) and are instead merely carrying on their samadhi (perfectional meditation) elsewhere in existence. I know very little about the other exceptions you mentioned, but do know it is also common practice to place bodies into holy rivers such as the Ganges where cremation is innapropriate, or as an alternative. Best Wishes, Gouranga(UK) 16:03, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Yes, I know, but I am interested in why some bodies are not cremated? Jpatokal 09:19, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Only those who are not traveling to their next life are not cremated, jivamuktas do not expect to live again, and do not wish to be cremated. also, in some cases, when a child dies young, some may choose not to cremate immediately or perform some other ritual in hopes of bringing the child back into the family in another form. ॐ नमःशिवाय Śaiva Sujīt सुजीत ॐ 19:22, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  So why are there so many unburned corpses in the Ganges, including women and children?  Are these mostly people who could not afford to be cremated?  Jpatokal 14:45, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Non-cremation in Hinduism 

message: There are now articles on every nayanar saint on hindi wiki. See :hi:श्रेणी:नायनमार. Perhaps one day it will be 63 nirvaachit lekh (featured articles).Kingrom 03:32, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Nayanar]]

message: Some one is vandalizing the article of Vishnu regularly. I am new and not experienced to stop it. Please help----Khammam 09:45, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism on Vishnu article 

message: does "It is better to make a distinction between traditional scholars and academic, or critical, scholars. The academy does not own the term scholar, which does carry some prestige. In the politics of representation, traditional scholars want to be identified as such, not excluded from "scholarship"."
really belong in a wiki article about a person?  Mythri achar 00:34, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  nammalvar contents 

message: Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh and Babri Mosque should be watchlisted, interestingly one user and a sock have violated WP:LIBEL against the organization.Bakaman 05:22, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: watchlist

message: Hi yall.  Over at the spam whitelist we received a request for a page relating to Hinduism. I have a fairly good grasp of the larger issues involved, but in trying to evaluate the page I'm way out of my depth. 
The Request can be found here: MediaWiki_talk:Spam-whitelist#bharatatatparyanirnaya.122mb.com.  Any further insight would be appreciated. Basically I'm trying to figure out if the site contains reliable information and if the commentary provided would be accepted as reliable. Thanks! ---J.S  (T/C/WRE) 07:48, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spam-Whitelist 

message: The article on Sri Anandamoyi Ma is in serious shambles. Help wanted. Aditya Kabir 16:13, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Sri Anandamoyi Ma]] 

message: I also noticed that the category for "Articles containing IAST" just disappeared, apparently with no input on the decision by editors of articles that use Indic text.  I am wondering if Template:IAST will be next, as there is ongoing confusion about the difference between the role of the IAST tag and the Unicode tag. 
There are two different issues in play.  One is to clarify what the Template:IAST actually does, which in my view is to specify which of several different romanization methods is being used for Devanagai, as opposed to the role of the Unicode tag to specify an implementation method for IAST glyphs.  Editors who do not work with Sanskrit may not understand that the purpose of the IAST tag is to define a romanization system, and therefore tend to reflexively replace IAST tags with Unicode tags, which is quite understandable, but results in potential confusion on what a word actually is.  As I am sure editors here are well aware, there are several different methods for romanizing the Devanagari writing system. See: Devanagari transliteration. Use of the IAST tag defines which of the transliteration methods is being used.  For example, the word for "self" in Devanagai is आत्मन् which is transliterated into English using IAST as  (with a diacritical character ā to indicate the long आ).  The Harvard-Kyoto method of transliteration would write "Atman" (with a capital A to indicate the long आ).  The ITRANS method of transliteration would write either "Atman" (with a capital A) or "aatman" (with two lower-case a characters).  By using the IAST tag the reader can determine which of these variant romanizations is being used.
The second issue is when IAST should be included in articles.  I have moved a refactored summary of a conversation to Talk:IAST#More_on_use_of_IAST to try to get more agreement on general principles.  Any of you that care about these issues, please chime in. I am unsure of where to have this discussion, as the Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(Dharmic) and Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(Indic) pages appear to be defunct. Buddhipriya 20:55, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request for input regarding IAST usage 

message: Hi.  There is a quite a dispute going on at Devadasi (see the talk) and a few other pages.  I don't know much about the caste issue involved so I have had trouble dealing with the problem.  Please help out if you can, thanks.  The Behnam 05:00, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Devadasi]] 

message: I need someone to work on expanding this page. Dr. GC Dev was one of the foremost Vedic and Upanishad scholars in erstwhile East Bengal/East Pakistan/Bangladesh. A first class first scholar (both BA and MA) from Calcutta University, Dr. Dev was a Philosopher, and a humanist, working for world peace. As a leading Bengali intellectual and professor of Dhaka University, he was one of the first targets chosen by Pakistan Army for execution, on the night of 25th March, 1971. His murder was a great loss not only to Bangladesh, but to the whole world.
There are lots of info available from Banglapedia (linked at the ref section), so it should be easy to expand it. I myself am running short of time, so I'd like some more ppl to help in this. Thanks in advance. --Ragib 19:44, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Bakaman is probably the best user for the job. He actively contibutes in both Hindu and Bengali articles. GizzaChat © 11:49, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have looked at it, and will add things as soon as I can locate some good info.Bakaman 22:23, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Govinda Chandra Dev]] 

message: I propose creating a family tree project for Mahabharata & Ramayana, making it easy for new readers to understand the relationships and story line in the two epics. Is there a template available for family trees? And is there a portal for Mahabharata into which we can add this or perhaps we can add it as a separate article. 
let me know your comments.
Vinwe 05:28, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is a good idea. I believe the best way to go about it is by creating a new article, either a separate article for each or combining them together. One benefit from merging the family trees into one page is that we can extend the family trees beyond the Ramayana and Mahabharata and include legends from the Puranas and to a lesser extent the Vedas. It is take some work however to explain the complicated relationships well to someone who doesn't know these epics well. Nice inititive! I was thinking about creating one myself a long time ago but was too lazy/busy to much more. I along with some other I hope, will be willing to help you. GizzaChat © 12:51, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think this is a great idea, and would like to help also. There are several different family tree templates at Wikipedia:Family trees. I suggest finding consensus on which format to use first. I like the top--->bottom tree style (as opposed to just a list) templates for looks. The last one named 'Template' looks best to me at a quick glance. But it needs to be one that's easy to use, so different editors can keep adding to it without having to know too much code. The image format approach loses the ability to edit, so a template is best, I think. Perhaps others could look there and say what they like.  When I have time, I'll give them a test drive for usability. ॐ Priyanath  talk 17:12, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'll try to be of help too. Am curious to see if, (1) the templates are set up to handle the complexity of Pandavas parentage(s) and marriage situation; and (2) if we will manage to crash the wikipedia servers or the just client PCs when we add the Kaurava brothers to the family tree :-) Abecedare 03:23, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I've started playing with a template in my sandbox. Check it out. It might work (though we may not have to name all 99 brothers!). Feel free to experiment, or copy to your own userspace. It takes some playing with to get used to the code, and alot of 'show preview', but it's doable. ॐ Priyanath  talk 03:47, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Nice start,  ॐ Priyanath! I'll play around (preview mode!) and try to get a hang of the template. Abecedare 03:55, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's good start. For the Pandavas, how can we add the corresponding devas, eg. Vayu for Bhima and the Ashvins for Nakula and Sahadeva? Or do we not add them because of the complexity? If we get very pedantic, I think we could add hundreds of gods and people! If we wanted to, we could add the gopis that Krishna gets married to though I don't think it is mentioned in the Mahabharat but a Purana. GizzaChat © 05:20, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Also who are Krishna's "true" parents - the birth-parents or the ones who adopted him, or both ? Ditto for Karna, Kunti and Balarama, who arguably has two "birth-mothers"! Wish wikipedia had a richer toolset for indicating such information ... but its worth giving it a try and see how far we can proceed. Abecedare 05:39, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: (Continue the indenting :p) Another example of the difficulty on where to cut the boundary is Ravana's extended family. There are plenty of Asuras/Rakshas we can add as well. Also, I wonder how avatars will be denoted (Rama/Krishna for Vishnu, Lakshman/Balarama for Sheshnaga, Hanuman for Shiva or Madhavcharya depending on sect). And because Ganesha transcribed Vyasa's words, it is possible to add Shiva, Parvati and Murugan! I suppose we can create small, concise versions and some extended ones so we can compare and see which serves more purpose. GizzaChat © 08:47, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: @Gizza - I would like a separate article also. We can start off with the main set of characters and expand further. The current templates however, aren't great. Also, I would think we can just name each Avatar separately in the tree(and maybe link the same origins somehow) @Priyanath - We can think of some minor modifications for the template to add devas etc for each character(or avatars etc). And your template is a really good start for the family tree. I'll try to make changes as well. @Abecedare - The kaurava situation might cause us some problems.. :). Also, only birth parents are to be added. In Karna's case it is clear. However it might be a problem in Balarama's where we can call it a surrogate mom--real mom  in a side branch. Vinwe 14:21, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Family Trees For Mahabharata & Ramayana

message: I've went ahead and archived all discussions that began from 22 May 2006 — 22 October 2006. Happy editing, [sd] 11:18, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archive 

message: Karma in Hinduism has been nominated to become a Feature Article. Please provide your input. GizzaChat © 12:19, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Karma in Hinduism]] 

message: I've decided to start a discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Notice_board_for_India-related_topics#Questionable_comment so we can come to a consensus about some unfortunate comments from a user with a predilection toward Hinduism.Bakaman 22:41, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: hopeless hindus?

message: :Copied from WT:HINDU, [sd] 11:08, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Link to peer review: Wikipedia:Peer review/Ganesha. Happy editing, [sd] 22:00, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Peer review requested for Ganesha 

message: Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_April_10#Jurists_by_religion where :Category:Hindu jurists is up for deletion.Bakaman 01:25, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: see

message: I have made extensive modifications to the Tirumala Venkateswara Temple. While i am planning to include more content as well as daughter pages, i wanted some feedback at the current state. 
Completed activities:
* revived Vaikuntha Ekadasi
* added Seva in Tirumala that captures the current sevas in the temple
* expanded Tirumala Tirupati Devasthanams
Future additions:
* Idols in the temple. Already added Bhoga Srinivasa. To follow  - Mallayappa swami, dhruva bera (main deity), ugra srinivasa, koluvu srinivasa
* Expand on yearly festivals. To add on brahmostavam as well as create articles on vasanthostavam, rathasapthami
* add article on Vaikuntam Queue complex
Please leave feedback and i shall try and ensure that these articles are sent for peer review within the next couple of months.Kalyan 19:27, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Tirumala Venkateswara Temple]] 

message: My english is low, excuseme. I am thinking to change the aum simbol  to  or  into :Template:Hinduism_small
Thanks --Wilfredor 21:46, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Changing Aum Symbol 

message: We have been discussing pros and cons of capitalizing the word "god/God" in this thread and I am curious to find out what others think on this question.  There does nto seem to be any current standard approach for how to handle it across multiple Hinduism articles.  I suspect that the choice may need to take into consideration the subject of the article.  Of course Devi and other feminine forms of the divine must be addressed using the appropriate gender, but in Hinduism the philosophical concept Brahman is in the neuter grammatical gender.  Devanagari and other Indic writing systems do not have the concept of capitalization so in transliteration of Sanskrit in academic texts you often see no capitalization of any Sanskrit words, but it is done sometimes to comply with English conventions.  The word "God" also raises issues about monotheism.  The article for Devas does not capitalize "gods", and other terms such as "divinities" are more cognate to deva than the word god.  Any thoughts on this mix of issues? Buddhipriya 17:13, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Capitalization of the word god 

message: I accidentally put this notice on the WT:INB a few days ago. Discussion can continue here
Does this page have any value? They all have their own individual articles. I think that is enough and this article should be deleted. GizzaChat © 08:10, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that the page is redundant. If someone puts in the effort to prod it, I will support deletion. By the way Gizza, did you mean to post this message on WT:HNB ? May have attracted more input there. Abecedare 18:24, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oops, my mistake! I didn't notice that this is the INB for some strange reason. GizzaChat © 07:22, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added a prod and my reason was a lazy link to this section :) GizzaChat © 07:29, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Kausalya, Sumitra and Kaikeyi]]