Talk:Ubykh language

message: Hi. i stumbled & fell & dropped you this link:
http://email.eva.mpg.de/~vandenbe/Mekegi.html
in case you, havent been there before.  (the author is sadly no longer with us.)
- peace
Ish ishwar 02:13, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks! I haven't much experience with the Northeast Caucasian languages, but this is certainly interesting. thefamouseccles 10:29, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Useful link?

message: Noticed Päkhy in the refs. Does the person who added the ref know the material? I've only heard that Päkhy was spoken far to the west of the other Caucasic languages, but it appears from wikipedia that it was a local name for Ubykh. Was the Päkhy community in western Anatolia a "recent" (post-Ottoman conquest or post Russian-conquest) emigre population of Ubykh, or did they have a long history in the region? kwami 02:33, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: "Päkhy" is simply the German name for the same people. The Ubykhs had two self-designations,  (the native term, phonetically [], from thich the German form comes) and  (the designation used by the Abdzakh Adyghe, who were in very close proximity to the Ubykhs in the Caucasus; this is the source of the English and French forms of the word). The Ubykh population in Anatolia was the Ubykh people; the nation was uprooted by the Russian invasion, and moved en masse to western Turkey in 1864. So yes, I guess you could say that it is spoken far to the west of the other Caucasic languages. :) However, Ubykh's original, pre-1864 centre was northwestern Abkhazia, around Sochi, which is pretty much as far west as you can get in the Caucasus AFAIK. (I've recently read in John Colarusso's Nart Sagas of the Caucasus that the Abkhazian government, if it can get full independence from Georgia, plans to release the region for the Ubykhs to "come home to".) Just out of interest, where did you hear about the term "Päkhy"? I hadn't heard it until I was well into studying the language. thefamouseccles 01:37, 2 Nov 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Päkhy 

message: Perhaps the bulk of the Phonetics section should be moved to the Ubykh phonology page? Jorge Stolfi 22:56, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Phonology to Phonology page

message: It is now possible to have Ubykh as one of your user languages in the Wikipedia Userboxes, thanks to Wikipedia:Babel. The relevant ISO tag is uby. Thefamouseccles 08:57, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ubykh in userboxes

message: If it's a dead language, shouldn't a lot of the article switch to past tense?  AEuSoes1 08:05, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I suppose there is a logical reason for that. However, most other pages on extinct languages (Latin, Akkadian and Sanskrit, for instance) also use present tense when giving information about the language itself - phonology, grammar and so on. Thefamouseccles 12:14, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I suppose there is a logical reason for (using) the present tense instead. ;) The thing is that languages, properly speaking, don't die. They cannot. A person can die and when it does, it'll be dead. When it is dead it'll remain so, certainly for good, no matter what. In this sense then, a language obviously cannot die, as it will always be (at least) a possibility that a resurrection takes place at some point in the future. Be it for academic reasons only. A certain language's users may die, even all of them, but that is something else for sure. Latin, by the way, I wouldn't even count as "dead"--it is an official language in a certain state, and there are some (in writing at least) fluent speakers around the world. Similar holds for Sanskrit, as well as for some other tongues that went extinct in the sense of there remaining (as of now!) no longer any native (or monolingual) speakers. Beings can die. Conceptual systems, like, for instance, mathematics or natural languages, cannot. They may rather enter into a state of dormancy from which they could always be resurrected, either by way of intellectual rediscovery (as mathematics would probably) or by way of locating and accumulating their remains in order to reconstruct the system, at least in part (as in the case of ancient languages). Even in the total absence of tangible remains (no written sources) one can never be certain that there'll be, at no time in the future, any perhaps ingenious way of reconstruction nevertheless. I'd therefore be in favor of retaining the descriptions in present tense in all language-related articles. Zero Thrust (talk) 02:45, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Was/is

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thread_title: Image copyright problem with Image:Tevfik-82.gif

message: I was reading an article on the Archi language and I was reading the references and I stumbled upon a document which lists a variety of different dialects of Ubykh which list more than the "Karaclar" dialect.
# Subeshkh
# KHize
# Wardane
# Pskha
# Sashe
# Mountain Ubykh
The full document is here on page 3. Also, what happened to the title of the dialect section? How come it's been changed from "Karaclar dialect" to just "Dialect"? Burned Toast (talk) 05:39, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: True, but none of these other dialects have been attested linguistically.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.102.158.16 (talk) 04:42, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  More Ubykh dialects? 

message: Is this alphabet here  correct? If yes can I add it to the article?--Adamʂa123 (talk) 18:15, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed Ubykh alphabet 

message: I've reverted some recent edits to this page, and explained myself in here. The discussion concerns many articles, so I thought it would be a good idea to keep it central. I hereby invite everyone who is interested to join the discussion on Talk:Northwest Caucasian languages. Thank you
Vito Genovese 13:42, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Invitation to a discussion that is relevant to this page 

message: The "Samples of Ubykh" transcription mentions Dumézil as the sourve. However, all other websites citing his transcription are completely different from the one found here, to give an example:
The following is the Wikipedia IPA transcription of the first line of the "Eating fish makes you clever" story:
"faaχʲa 	tʼqʷʼa-kʷabʒa 	kʲʼaʁə-n 	a-za-χʲa-ʃə-na-n 	a-mʁʲa-n 	ɡʲə-kʲa-qʼa-n"
This is how http://lacito.vjf.cnrs.fr/pangloss/corpus/show_text_en.php?id=crdo-UBY_POISSON_SOUND&idref=crdo-UBY_POISSON and the other sources I've found transcribe it:
"fạ́xʹa tˀq˚ˀá-k˚ábǯʹa kʹˀáɣə.n aza.xʹa.šʹə.na.n á-mɣʹa.n gʹə.kʹa.qˀá.n."
Is it because of a disagreement in analysis, or do they simply use different phonetic alphabets? If the latter; which phonetic alphabet do Pangloss use? (I assume it's french), and is there a source available that uses the same transcription as found on wikipedia?
Is there even a reliable source that uses the same transcription found here? 84.238.86.182 (talk) 13:22, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm unsure what system Dumézil was using but the two are pronounced the same. I assume he's using something similar to the Americanist system but modified for Ubyhkh slightly. There isn't an equivalent for IPA available so I think whoever added that bit moved the transcription over. Burned Toast (talk) 03:13, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Accuracy of "Samples" transcription 

message: In February 2018 an IP editor removed the statement that the last native speaker died in 1992, without providing any reliable sources.  The comment for the edit says "ubikh is still spoken my family is of ubikh decent from Jordan and we still use this language."  The lead paragraph still says the language is extinct.  The apparent conflict should be reconciled or the status of the language clarified.   Vox Sciurorum (talk) 12:19, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: There is plenty of evidence that Tevfik Esenç was the last "fully competent speaker" of the language, as mentioned in the source provided. This is corroborated on numerous other web pages if one googles his name. It is possible that the IP editor uses occasional Ubykh words at home, and it is also possible that s/he is a joker or troll. Mlewan (talk) 06:34, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  I reverted one of the pair of changes.  I didn't restore the lead paragraph because mentioning Tevfik Esenç there is redundant with the infobox right next to it (on a regular browser view, at least).  Vox Sciurorum (talk) 13:22, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extinct or not? 

message: The translation in Ubykh babel template says "tʼqʷʼaakʲʼa", and I think this word means "This cleaner, cleaning crew" (jə-tʼqʷʼa-aakʲʼa-n: this-clean-doing.person-REL). According to Vogt, H. Dictionnaire de la langue Oubykh, tʼqʷʼa- (No.1896) means 'a-s-tʼqʷʼa-n: je le ménage, je l'économise'. Does "tʼqʷʼa" has another meaning without "two" or Is my analysis wrong? Мизхо (talk) 20:45, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: The template hasn't been updated to match Fenwick's grammar so I'd be dubious of any use of the language there and Vogt's dictionary is missing a fair number of sounds so it too would be inaccurate. The verb 'to clean' is /pʼtɕʼɜ/ and the nominalisation of a goal is /ɐkʲʼɜ/ so "this cleaner" would be /jɨ-pʼtɕʼ[ɜ]-ɐkʲʼɜ/ (the vowel /ɜ/ gets elided when /ɐ/ is present). The references here are p. 54, 73, 79 of A Grammar of Ubykh. Burned Toast (talk) 19:59, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  tʼqʷʼaakʲʼa? 

message: Is /wərəs/ from Russian or Persian? The article contradicts itself CecilWard (talk) 08:12, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Russian or Persian loan ? 

message: Something's wrong here. Anyone able to sort it out? Flapdragon (talk) 00:21, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Possibly /wəbəxəbzɐ/ although I don't speak Adyghe Burned Toast (talk) 06:55, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Убыхыбзэ (/wɨbɨx/)" 

message: I changed the example for the verb to love from "I love you" to "You loved" but it needs a translation. 2601:C6:D281:6710:2CFC:2C51:F78B:425F (talk) 22:42, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation needed 

message: Usually when a language is extinct the box is red, I don't know how to change it, so can someone do it. Art3mist6 (talk) 15:22, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Which box is that? The colours for each of the languages in the box are based on the language family. Burned Toast (talk) 20:57, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extinct 

message: The proposed orthography for Ubykh is in the page so thank you whoever that was, I can't seem to find it in the history. I suggest that we use the Latin orthography instead of the cyrillic for consistency. Furthermore, I want to replace the sample as it doesn't use the three vowel system (ironic that it was written by Fenwick, the same person who wrote A Grammar of Ubykh) and it will be moved over to the one described at the back of A Grammar of Ubykh. Burned Toast (talk) 21:01, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orthography