Talk:AV idol

message: Are there no Male porn stars or models in japan?
If so why don't any of them have articles?
And if there are, why don't they have any articles?Kairos (talk) 06:52, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There are many, many many AV idols worthy of articles. Unfortunately Wikipedia plays a "notability" game which ensures that subjects who are covered in media (even mainstream media), but whose coverage is extremely difficult to locate because they are overseas, in foreign languages, and/or are not readily available on the Internet, are deleted. About Japanese male porn stars: The Japanese AV industry is heavily female-centric, that's just the way it is, however there are some well-known male porn actors. The only two articles I'm aware of already here are Chocoball Mukai and Micky Yanai. Feel free to start up articles on other Japanese male porn actors, but please source them as well as you can, and be prepared to fight their deletion. Now-- do these male stars belong at this article? My understanding of "AV idol" is that they are, by definition, female. I could be wrong. I am aware of no male "gravure" videos or AVs in which the male is the star. (Admittedly I don't look for this, so, again, I could be wrong.) Feel free to add to the article, especially any valuable sourcing you may have. Cheers! Dekkappai (talk) 16:13, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: As an example on the difficulty of playing the "notability" game with Japanese subjects-- I was preparing an article on Serena Kozakura, an idol who made mainstream news articles in English last month when she won a trial based on her bust-size. (An ex-boyfriend claimed she had crawled through a window to get into his apartment, it was shown that the model's voluptuousness prevented her from accomplishing this feat.) Last month I had three articles from Mainichi Shimbun with which to source the article. Two of those articles have since been taken off the site, they are not archived at the site, and they block "Internet Archive" from archiving the articles. So, basically, tired of fighting the "notability" game, I just give up on starting an article on this notable subject at Wikipedia. That said, if you're interested in the subject, the Wiki articles on the Japanese gay magazines Samson and Badi might provide you with leads. Happy editing! Dekkappai (talk) 16:49, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

text: No problem-- we do have an article on Bukkake. Right, the Japanese Wiki has literally hundreds of articles on AV idols... Personally, I have no interest in male stars, so I'm not going to be researching the subject. If you're interested in the subject though, I do encourage you to look around for sourcing-- good sourcing seems to be the best weapon against deletion. Cheers! Dekkappai (talk) 17:08, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Male Idols? 

message: During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
* http://www2.gol.com/users/coynerhm/pornborn.html
** In Eri Kikuchi on 2011-03-18 07:30:08, 404 Not Found
** In Hitomi Kobayashi on 2011-04-01 21:51:22, 404 Not Found
** In AV idol on 2011-06-20 01:12:03, 404 Not Found
--JeffGBot (talk) 01:12, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 

message: During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
* http://xxx.xcity.jp/SHIN-TOHO/HISTORY/S_SHINOZAKI/index.html
** In Hitomi Kobayashi on 2011-04-01 21:51:22, 404 Not Found
** In AV idol on 2011-06-20 01:13:04, 404 Not Found
--JeffGBot (talk) 01:13, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 2 

message: There was a large list of names of likely living people here which were not reliably sourced as AV idols. This is a violation of our very important WP:BLP policy which has been written to protect the living people we write about. I have removed all the names as BLP non compliant. Please reliably source and return with an inline citation so that everybody can verify that these people really are AV idols. ♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 17:13, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: As currently written the BLP policy does not mention suspension of BLP enforcement if there is discussion or an RfC on the BLP talk page. And with good reason. We cannot ignore the BLP concerns of the living subjects we write about due to editor discusions. ♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 17:29, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I thought the RFC made clear that what you think is BLP policy is not BLP policy.  But your consensus of one says otherwise, so I must be wrong.  My apologies.  People who want to wank to Japanese porn will just have to look to websites with no standards whatsoever.--Milowent • hasspoken 17:49, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

text: Navigation pointer. Also review current WP:AN/I discussion on this topic. - Wikidemon (talk) 17:48, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Still claiming Milowent that nobel laureates are as contentious as porn workers? That is your argument? The Rfc has not made clear that my very simple and tot he letter interpretation fo BLP is wrong either. But if you think your interpretation of some talk page discussion trumps very real concerns about the living people we write about I can tell you that you are wrong. ♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 17:52, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I did not claim nobel laureates are as contentious as porn workers.  Do not slander me by claiming I did.--Milowent • hasspoken 18:01, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

text:  "Contentious material about living persons (or, in some cases, recently deceased) that is unsourced or poorly sourced – whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable – should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion." (from the BLP policy, emphasis removed). Carrite (talk) 15:18, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: This is already debated at the RFC. Let's discuss this there. Once that is solved in general, then we can act on specific articles. --cyclopiaspeak! 15:30, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

text: Are you making that claim under BLP or not? If you are, the issue is under discussion at the RfC. If as a content question, I do believe it is a reasonable list to have, but as with many lists in subjects like this there is some question of whether to do this as prose or lists, what the inclusion criteria are, and whether the list items meet that. In many articles about entertainment or pop culture phenomena across the encyclopedia, editors feel it is useful to have a representative if not comprehensive list of examples. You point out at AN/I that four list members are not really that notable. Would you care to remove them, or go over that here? - Wikidemon (talk) 23:15, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Under BLP, under RS, under V, and under WP:LIST, not to mention NOR and SYNTH. This seems to be nothing more than an arbitrarily selected list of genre performers without coherent selection criteria, mislabeled as identifying of demonstrated higher-level importance. I spot-checked entries and found none of them properly supported. There isn't anything resembling a reasonable case for keeping this list. We don't even have decently defined criteria for what should be on this list, which pretty much establishes that it's meaningless, useless, and fundamentally unencyclopedic. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo) (talk) 02:58, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: BLP policy

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070216205025/http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/online_artcls/pornography/prngrphy_rape_jp.html to http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/online_artcls/pornography/prngrphy_rape_jp.html
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070515003453/http://xxx.xcity.jp/SHIN-TOHO/HISTORY/S_SHINOZAKI/index.html to http://xxx.xcity.jp/SHIN-TOHO/HISTORY/S_SHINOZAKI/index.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081220103900/http://www.b-v.co.jp/ to http://www.b-v.co.jp/
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified