Talk:SAMPA

message: The table is starting to look dense. We might also want sound samples in other languages. And there's the linguistic descriptions of the sounds. Maybe we should consider adding no more to the table, and instead making a page for each phoneme. Quesion is, what to call them? -- Tarquin 09:30 Jul 31, 2002 (PDT)
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What about returning to a summary introduction, similar 
to the original we had a few days ago, with a link to 
a more detailed chart, something like a socompleted version of /temp?
  Perique des Palottes.
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Temporary /temp contains:
* Long chart of consonants and vowels
* Concise chart of consonants and vowels for English
Opinions?
But I've noticed there are some holes, the most noticeable one being how come SAMPA does not have a 
propper sign for British English 'r' (labialised and retroflex)? 
  2002/08/05 Perique des Palottes.
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This was part of the former text:
=== Vowels ===
 Sampa  IPA  Examples from languages 
English (RP)FrenchGerman
 [ { ]  æ - ae ligature 
-- low front unrounded vowel
  London English cat      
 [ E ]  epsilon 
-- middle open front unrounded vowel
betmêmeHerr
 [ e ]  e 
-- middle closed front unrounded vowel
 US bear  année  mehr, hin und her
 [ i ]  i 
-- closed front unrounded vowel
meetvitemieten
 [ Q ]  turned script a  British English dot 
-- low back rounded vowel
gavottetoll (wonderful)
 [ O ] turned c 
-- middle open back rounded vowel
  British English law      
 [ o ]  o 
-- middle closed back rounded vowel
U.S. sorebeauSohle 
 [ u ]  u 
-- closed back rounded vowel
bootgoûtHut 
 [ & ]  Œ - s.c. OE lig 
-- low front rounded vowel
 
 [ 9 ]  œ - oe ligature 
-- middle open front rounded vowel
   neuf, hence the symbol 9Hölle
 [ 2 ]  ø 
-- middle closed front rounded vowel
     deux, hence the symbol 2 Höhle
 [ y ]  y 
-- closed front rounded vowel
     du Tür 
 [ A ] script a (ie circular, Arial-style)
-- low back unrounded vowel
spark, arm, US law ame, vase, tas    
 [ a ] a (Times Roman-style)
-- low central unrounded vowel
bâteau, lac, il plongea  Haar 
 [ @ ] turned e
-- middle central unrounded vowel
about, winner (schwa) machen (informal speech)
 [ 3 ]  reversed epsilon  English fir, nurse      
 [ I ]  small capital I  English city    mit 
 [ U ]  approx turned Ω or υ   English book   Mutter
 [ } ] u (barred u)   Swedish: sju
 [ V ]  ^ - turned v  British English fun   Alter
non-European vowels
 SAMPA  IPA  Examples from languages 
VietnameseKorean
    (upside-down m) ư  으 
    (greek gamma squeezed <BR>btwn midline and baseline)  ơ  어 
Vowel modifiers:
* [ ~ ] after a vowel indicates that it is nasalised (e.g. French bon [bO~] ).
* [ : ] after a vowel indicates that it is lengthened (e.g. Japanese shōshō [So:So:], English see [si:] ).
=== Diphthongs ===
 Sampa  IPA  Examples 
 [ eI ]  e; small cap I English day 
 [ aI ]    English my 
 [ OI ]  turned c; small cap I  English boy
 [ @U ]  schwa; upsilon  English no 
 [ aU ]    English how  
 [ I@ ]    English near  
 [ e@ ]    English hair 
 [ U@ ]    English poor 
 [ aI@ ]    English fire 
 [ aU@ ]    English sour 
=== Consonants ===
b, d, f, h, k, l, m, n, p, r, t, v, w have their usual English values. The following list of other consonants is not complete.
 Sampa  IPA  Examples 
 [ g ]  g  English get 
 [ j ]  j  English yes 
 [ x ]  x  English loch 
 [ D ]  ð - eth  English this or that 
 [ T ]  θ - theta   English thick 
 [ s ]  s  English see, pass
 [ z ]  z  English zoo, rose 
 [ S ]  esh (approx. ∫)  English sheep, French chemin 
 [ Z ]  ezh (yogh) (approx 3 or script z)  French jour, English pleasure 
 [ N ]  right-tail n  English thing 
 [ J ]  left-tail n  palatal nasal, Spanish ñ, Italian or French gn, Catalan or Hungarian ny
 [ L ]  reversed lambda  palatal lateral, Italian gli, Catalan or Spanish (some dialects) ll
 [ R ]  small capital R uvular trill, French or standard German r
=== Affricates ===
More to be added later
 [ dZ ]   English joy 
 [ tS ]     English chair 
/to do: pages with pronunciations that need to be comverted to SAMPA. (Note: the use of SAMPA on Wikipedia has not been decided yet; please wait before converting these pages -- see Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (pronunciation))
. (Note
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I find it odd that this article instructs that the pronunciation for "SAMPA" is /s{mpA:/. In my dialect (Australian English) it's not (usually) possible for a word to en in /A:/ unless it's spelled with a final "r" - and in this case the word would have a "connecting r". I can only think of a few single syllable exceptions. The natural way to pronounce this word for me is /"s{mp@/. Is the /s{mpA:/ pronunciation prescribed somewhere or is this just an observation in one area? Hippietrail 12:30, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm a British RP speaker and I'd say the same. -- Tarquin 12:54, 29 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page per phoneme? 

message: More to be added later
 [ dZ ]   English joy 
 [ tS ]     English chair 
/to do: pages with pronunciations that need to be comverted to SAMPA. (Note: the use of SAMPA on Wikipedia has not been decided yet; please wait before converting these pages -- see Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (pronunciation))
. (Note
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I find it odd that this article instructs that the pronunciation for "SAMPA" is /s{mpA:/. In my dialect (Australian English) it's not (usually) possible for a word to en in /A:/ unless it's spelled with a final "r" - and in this case the word would have a "connecting r". I can only think of a few single syllable exceptions. The natural way to pronounce this word for me is /"s{mp@/. Is the /s{mpA:/ pronunciation prescribed somewhere or is this just an observation in one area? Hippietrail 12:30, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm a British RP speaker and I'd say the same. -- Tarquin 12:54, 29 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Affricate]]s 

message: What use is this SAMPA? We have IPA already, it is authoritative and widely known. I find these references to SAMPA littered all around Wikipedia, cluttering it up and making it less legible. It seems all the people who know SAMPA are just a subset of those who know IPA anyway, would it not be better for everyone's sanity to just use one transcription? I see no benefit whatsoever in using SAMPA for anything.
: SAMPA is easier to enter for many editors, and as you're aware if you read this talk page, not all users can see IPA characters displayed in their browser.  The benefits of getting the information across to readers of Wikipedia are self-evident, no?
: I agree that SAMPA adds clutter and wish we could dispense with it.  Once WP switches to UTF-8 and as Win98/MSIE becomes less common, I hope that exclusive IPA will become more acceptable. But keep in mind that many users use computers where they have no control over fonts and settings, and it will be a long time until IPA is universally viewable.  —Michael Z. 16:11, 2004 Oct 2 (UTC)
What if articles had a standard "pronunciation guide" box floating at the top-right?  All the IPA and SAMPA could be displayed consistently, out of the way, with a standard link to IPA and SAMPA guides.  Transliteration schemes for different languages could be linked here too, from pages where they are used.  —Michael Z. 16:31, 2004 Oct 2 (UTC)
I have to agree with this user's sentiment. This article (and others I've seen) states that IPA is preferred over SAMPA on Wikipedia, yet there's a ton of SAMPA scattered around the 'pedia (sometimes without even a reference to SAMPA, so >90% of users have got to be totally baffled). I'm on a college campus where computers are overwhelmingly Macs, and Firefox/Safari use is near universal. How many users will be unable to see ðiːz wə˞dz? Is there any data? -leigh (φθόγγος) 23:44, Dec 14, 2004 (UTC)
::Just to address the point about some browsers not being able to view IPA symbols correctly, I think this mainly (or perhps only) refers to MSIE, and can in any case be overcome by enclosing the IPA symbols within the IPA template (as I have been doing on a number of articles) so that  become legible on MSIE as well. rossb 23:32, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  SAMPA is annoying 

message: The article lacks some basic information on the number of those exposed to SAMPA as part of learning. Is it only used by professionals? In what fields has it had the most success? How many published works use it? In what subject areas? How does it compare to IPA or to the dict.com/Wordsmyth system or any of the numerous other phonetic respelling systems in terms of accessibility to casual users? Any facts would be nice. DCDuring (talk) 03:22, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  SAMPA usage statistics