Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Three Kingdoms/Archive 1

message: Got the ball rolling on a GA nom for Battle of Red Cliffs. It will probably take more than a little time for a reviewer to get to it. Ling.Nut 12:30, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Is anyone a Google maps wiz? I clicked the coords for Red Cliffs (in the top right hand corner of the article), and the Google map showed it to be not too far from Fankou — really far northeast of where it should be! Is it near Wuhan? Or farther SW? Either way, the coords at the top of the page are very wrong. Ling.Nut 01:47, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Keep in mind that the location of the battle is still under dispute (though most historians agree that it's near Wulin), so there's no telling that the coordinates are very wrong. _dk 10:17, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Battle of Red Cliffs]] 

message: Much of the MILHIST page that is the source for this project page is taken up with elucidation of various Categories and Infoboxes. There are many Three Kingdoms categories; we need to display a tree or trees for them. There are also infoboxes, and I believe we need a generic "Three Kingdoms Biography" infobox patterned after (and probably replacing) the  infobox, an example of which is  at Sun Quan. -- Ling.Nut 12:37, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A generic Three Kingdoms Biography infobox (like what appears on the Cao Cao) is what I was hoping to do, but I am hopeless with template coding, so.... :) _dk 18:33, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: See Guan Yu for an extreme case. _dk 03:00, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good. Let's plan on getting that done next week. Ling.Nut 03:12, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Categories and Infoboxes 

message: This is for later, but.. do we want an assessment system for all Three Kingdoms articles? You know, where people rate the article Stub, Start, B, GA, A or FA? I've set up.. ummm.. I think three of those so far, for three different wikiprojects, so Can Do.. if everyone wants it... --Ling.Nut 04:03, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a good idea. By the way, there's no featured 3K article here, is there? I guess Cao Cao, Cao Pi, Cao Rui, Sun Ce, Sun Jian, Sun Quan, Liu Bei, Guan Yu, Dong Zhuo, Lü Bu, Yuan Shao might be the most likely candidates one day. Sarazyn • 丁ALK • DE 07:36, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Might be a good idea.  Can't be taken seriously if we're not going to do everything properly. Gamer Junkie 08:57, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A big majority of them is going to overlap with WP:MILHIST and WP:CHINA, and since the assessments are based on the same standards, I don't think it's useful. _dk 09:49, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I just don't see the need, sorry. _dk 20:41, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  The minimum, we should add  on all the talk pages related to the project regardless of assessment scales. I have some concerns over other projects' assessments. Three Kingdoms is assessed as Start class but I think the topic covered the majority aspects already. Another enquiry would be Battle of Red Cliffs, WPChina assessed it as GA, while MilitaryWP assessed it as A. So which one does it belong? Even though majority of the articles fall within the 2 projects mentioned above, we should have assessments as well because it's much more specific (WPChina covers everything in China, may not be focused enough on ancient military history. MilitaryWP covers military around the world, may not know a lot of ancient oriental military.) OhanaUnitedTalk page 08:29, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you don't agree with other WikiProjects' assessments, change them. Battle of Red Cliffs is at its present stage because WP:MILHIST doesn't have a GA class while most other WPs don't have the A class. (Techinically, A-class should be higher than a GA, but for some reason A-class articles aren't shown as prominently) _dk 10:01, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Assessment system? 

message: I think Sarazyn is right — I haven't seen any 3K FA's. I have my hopes pinned on Battle of Red Cliffs as our inaugural FA. 
:-) ... Do we wanna collaborate, have FA/GA drives, etc.? If so, which articles?
* Battle of Changban as a sister-article to Red Cliffs?
* Zhuge Liang, Guan Yu, Zhang Fei and Liu Bei (roughly in that order?) as the most popular characters in ROTK?
* Three Kingdoms and ROTK as the twin roots of the 3K hierarchy?
* Ling.Nut 12:18, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe comparison with de: is going to help you, where four of my 3K translations were granted GA status: Cao Cao (now FA candidate), Cao Pi, Liu Shan, Jiang Wei. I also plan to expand Sun Quan using Crespigny's works to catapult it to FA status. Sarazyn • 丁ALK • DE 14:09, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The character articles above (by Ling.Nut) will be very difficult, they're jumbled up and all over the place and won't be so easy to work with.  Perhaps we should start with a more minor individual; somebody who's article is small and can be built upon and controlled more easily, just as a test. If we were going to choose from the group above, Zhang Fei's article would probably be the easiest to start with (less traffic, less subsections). As far as Changban goes, maybe we should concentrate on Red Cliffs before jumping the gun.  We should also be making comparisons between our articles and military articles that are already FA'd.  I'd say with fair certainty that the Battle of Normandy would probably be one, and maybe Operation Market Garden.  Let's compare our goals with what's already been accomplished by the MILHIST people, and maybe get some input from some big shot who's helped MILHIST get their FA's. Gamer Junkie 14:28, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The peer review of Red Cliffs at MILHIST didn't attract any attention. However, if/when it makes GA, I'm immediately gonna close that peer review and open another one at MILHIST for "A" rating. Those reviews do seem to attract attention.... Ling.Nut 14:48, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If we can't get their attention the old fashioned way, we should try contacting somebody from the MILHIST WikiProject directly, they can't really ignore or miss that. Gamer Junkie 14:57, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Collaboration, GA/FA drives? 

message: * OK, I moved this page into WP space (duh), and created the sidebar you see at right (duh). I made   as a project banner. New shortcuts: WP:3K & WT:3K. Still many things to do. I'm working on an infobox & will have questions to ask about that soon. Does anyone have/use WP:AWB? Ling.Nut 19:37, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page move. Shortcut. Sidebar. Project banner. AWB, anyone? 

message: I've added this WikiProject to the WikiProject directory.  And just a note - I don't know if anybody here has any experience with growing a WikiProject, but I think your first task here should be to tag as many relevant articles as possible with the WikiProject tag.  This will help you recruit members.  But even when people start putting their names down as members, they may not actively participate.  It would be helpful to make comments here at the Talk page often, even if you are the only one or two people doing it.  Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 05:18, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Included in WikiProject directory 

message: _dk has raised a number of objections to the layout etc. of . We've made a few changes as per his suggestions, but further comments from other WP:3K members are encouraged. See Template talk:Three Kingdoms#Discussion. Thanks! Ling.Nut 12:52, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comments requested: {{tl|Three Kingdoms}} 

message: Please come and discuss the issue here Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Five Wei Generals. _dk 21:26, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Five Tiger Generals]] and [[Five Wei Generals]] up for deletion

message: hey, if we wanna put the cats on the wikiproject page (I'm neutral on the issue) here they are: User:Ling.Nut/3kcats. This listing actually omits some redundant branches of the tree without missing any individual cats.. or so I hope.. Ling.Nut 12:44, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  categories 

message: ; Statement
:*Most articles related to the Three Kingdoms period in Chinese history and its popularity in novels, games, television series, movies etc. are currently in disarray. The new project (project page under construction) aims to bring order to the chaos.
; Goals
:* To provide guidelines and recommendations for articles that describe all aspects of the Three Kingdoms period.
:* To improve Wikipedia's coverage of the Three Kingdoms period by creating, expanding, and maintaining such articles.
:* To serve as the central point of discussion for issues related to the Three Kingdoms period in Wikipedia.
:* To ensure clear definition between factual and fictional information regarding people of the Three Kingdoms period.
; Scope
: The project generally considers any article related to historical or fictionalized characters and events related to the Three Kingdoms period of Chinese history within its scope.
; Interested Wikipedians (please add your name)
* Ling.Nut 19:15, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Six of one; half dozen of another. There are a few advantages to having a separate WikiProject, though.  Ling.Nut 02:34, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Three Kingdoms discussion from [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals]]

message: I'm posting this here for those people who don't frequent the WikiProject China talk page...
The Battle of Red Cliffs article has too few images, too few for even a jab at the WP:FAC process. For something as famous/influential as this battle (like THE most famous Chinese battle in history, really), I'm shocked that I cannot find any free use images depicting the battle on the internet. So here is my request: Are there any free use image of the battle (ie. Did any ancient artist try to draw it?) that can be used on the article?
Thank you. _dk 09:22, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Image hunting and image use

message: * .
* Ling.Nut 02:28, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Being from Melbourne, I should, but no, I don't. :) Gamer Junkie 02:32, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  does anyone have this book? 

message: * Working on a section about the Historical Location of Red Cliffs in my userspace, here. This should be verifiable historical info (scholarly articles etc.) only.. no game-related info... Ling.Nut 21:10, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Historical Location of Red Cliffs 

message: There's a page in my user space... here that is earmarked for work on a "Modern References" section for Battle of Red Cliffs... when it's done we'll move it into the article...
There are already three newspaper articles there that could be sources for a little info.. plus there's a PC strategy game called "Dragon Throne: Battle of Red Cliffs"... and I dunno if the section should only be modern; there are several famous poems by Su Shi etc.... anyone who wants to contribute to the workpage is W-E-L-C-O-M-E to do so... I dunno if I'll be a lot of help for the next three or 4 weeks... Ling.Nut 00:54, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "Cultural and modern references" perhaps? I'd like to ensure we leave as much DW stuff out of articles that aren't constantly bombarded with DW additions and the battle pages seem to be left fairly much alone.  We should keep it down to movies, games unique to the battle, etc.  But you already appear to be on the same level with that, Ling. Anyway, I'll be sure to do that.  If not now, in the next couple of days. Gamer Junkie 01:10, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I strongly believe that gaming stuff is notable. I'm just not sure that I know where to draw the line on the details.. the devil is always in the details.. thanks!! Ling.Nut 01:13, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I thought we were just going with a point-by-point piece, but this sounds more like a few hundred/thousand words for an entire sub-section.  This will need to be thoroughly planned and organised, so it definitely won't be done today. Gamer Junkie 02:52, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

text: You can make that three members sidelined.  I'm still going on the whole witness thing right now.  Plus I'm still fixing other articles for VG project, too. Trying to put the project's together, so my last massive overhauls were Nobunaga's Ambition and Destiny of an Emperor.  A good combination, yeah? Gamer Junkie 03:07, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Shall we reschedule this meeting for late August, or even early Sept.? :-) Ling.Nut 03:45, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I dunno.  I'd like to do this, but it's just a matter of having enough time.  Mostly I'm here for about half an hour at a time and I can't write out a reasonable section since I also use that time to check over every other article that I'm maintaining and discussing changes to VG project games, too.  I'll do it as soon as I can, which will probably be before August/September. Gamer Junkie 03:05, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And completely going against everything I just said, I went and wrote the whole thing right after adding the above point.  Don't know if it's up to par, but check through and see what you think.  Also, dk, you'll need to add the section about Cao Cao and the Gnerals of the South since I don't have that information. Gamer Junkie 04:15, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Modern References" section for [[Battle of Red Cliffs]] under construction 

message: I've been discussing this with Ling.Nut and we've decided to bring it up here.  The article is, at the moment, written entirely in American English.  However, the article uses metric units (kilometres) in the descriptions and not imperial units (miles) which I feel presents a discrepancy in style.  Considering we're on an FA push with this article, I've suggested that we change the style to British English to keep it all uniform.  Ling has no problem with this, and I'll make the change, provided that nobody opposes this for any specific reason. Gamer Junkie 08:26, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going to assume that everybody is fine with this and go ahead with the change. Gamer Junkie 09:12, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Battle of Red Cliffs: American English or British English?