Talk:Assyrian–Chaldean–Syriac diaspora

message: Saying you have done an amazing job is a understatement :) Thank you so much for your hard work, I will try my best to keep up with you :D. I think all Assyrians should thank you for your work.  Chaldean 15:26, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Let's hope other Assyrian-related articles will become better thanks to the use of official and scientific references, not activist websites or articles who refer to unverifiable statistics. And let's hope everything you, Garzo or me are (and will be) doing won't be systematically destroyed... --Pylambert 15:48, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Thank You Pylambert

message: Thank you very much for the help in this page! :) Chaldean 14:50, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You're welcome! There's one more ref that I need to fix - remind me if I forget. --Khoikhoi 20:33, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Thank You Khoikhoi

message: I have removed the island of Makronisos. as far as i know, the island did not receive refugees, neither greek nor assyrians from asia minor. it had a very low population of fishermen till the civil war, and then was used as a place of exile for communists until 1974. now it is uninhabited. maybe i am wrong, but any possible assyrian refugees did not stay there...maybe they passed from the island before settling in attica. restore it, if i made a mistake. --Hectorian 20:50, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You may be right, but here's the source that I found. Perhaps we could contact the Assyrian Union of Greece. --Khoikhoi 23:50, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: U are right,and i have no reason to object the accuracy of that source. but according to my knowledge of greece and to the fact that this small island was sort of a 'military zone' without actually indigenous population, and later uninhabited, i think that we should refer to the places where Assyrians settled and still reside in, and not those that they passed by. maybe we should reword the phrase in ' resided in....and now live in....'. (in the years after 1922 and subsequent the population exchange, the aegean islands served as a 'bridge' for the resettlement of the refugees in mainland greece-so, this makes sense). --Hectorian 00:15, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I added "today uninhabited" in parenthesis. --Khoikhoi 01:22, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok,perfect.i removed 'Saronikos', cause it is not an island or town, but simply the gulf of Athens. --Hectorian 01:59, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Yea, and plus you gotta remember that the majority of them are leaving for other western countries. Actually, I went through this as well. After gulf war one, the way we made it to Greece was actually from the North, Istanbul, rather then from soutern areas staright to Athens, like how Assyrian immigrants did it during asia minor crisis and after that. We came in a small boat from Istanbul to Samotraki , the boat dropped us off and we just waited for the Hellenic army to arrest us and take us in back to the main land. And of course, I and like all of the other 60 Assyrians that were on that boat with me, have all left Greece. I actually visited Ellatha last summer, and I visited every Assyrian community in the country, and I think 2000 seems a good estimate. 20000 is way overexaderated. But probably as much as 100,000 diffenet Assyrians since the beginning of hte 20th century have lived in Greece, but all left for westward or Australia. 
ps -  Zhto H Ellas :)  Chaldean 04:43, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Greece 

message: Sorry, I did not finish the explanation of removing the template. The "tone" of the introduction was changed long time ago, and the references are mostly Gov census. Chaldean 01:56, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: POV

message: s last edit, , is only a proof of his own POV. Which is being very clear, since for example the Syriac federation in Sweden has 18 923 members () while the Assyrian has 9 221 members (), which shows that clearly Aramean-Syriacs are in majority and not Assyrians. The TriZ (talk) 15:12, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Did you miss the Syriac-Aramaic flag? The TriZ (talk) 19:19, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Sweden

message: Its the tale of Armenian diaspora, Assyrians were the most respectible nation in the Ottoman Empire, and they never been get into the job of ringo, like armenians did. they never strike at back like armenian gypsies. God bless all of them.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.108.11.75 (talk) 12:25, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Genocides by the Ottomans are a fact of history. See Armenian Genocide and other articles.--DThomsen8 (talk) 14:18, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Assyrians never been killed by Ottomans 

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thread_title: Move discussion in progress

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message: ”The Assyrian diaspora ... refers to the Assyrians...”.
Why not change it to “...refers to the Assyrians & Arameans”? Since the Arameans are in a diaspora as well, and everyone consider them as the same people. Shabo.Hanna.Izgin (talk) 18:28, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  ”Assyrian” 

message: In the French dictionary under the name Aramean it gives the explanation of two names: Araméen and Syrie, syriaque.[1]
Another authoritative dictionary is the English one, under the name Aramean it gives a similar explaining, that is; Aramean and Syrian.[2]
In the Hebrew dictionary the word Aram gives us the impression of two names; Aram and Syrian (syriac)[3] Note: Search for the word Aramite/Aramean and Syrian.
By Biblical translations the word Syria gives the meaning of Aram. [4]
By the Catholic Encyclopedia the term ’’Syria’’ gives the meaning of ‘’Aram’’ and ‘’Arameans’’. [5]
In German litterateur; regarding their ”Semetic studies” the word ”Syria” and ”Syriac” is translated to ”Aram” and ”Aramean”. (Prof. Dietrich Hermann Hegewisch & Prof. Theodor Mommsen & Prof. Theodor Nöldeke & Prof. Karl Eduard Sachau)
Now moving on to different Syriac dictionaries, these are most important since they are in the Aramaic language itself. Lets start with Bar Bahlul († 963), he compiled his famous "Lexicon", a small encyclopedia in which he collected, together with the lexicographical works of his predecessors. He wrote in his lexicon under the term "Syria":
”Syria was derived from king Syrus (Cyrus) either during his lifetime or after his death. This Syrus had killed his brother and ruled Mesopotamia. His whole kingdom was called Syria. The Syriacs were formerly called Arameans , but when Syrus ruled over them, they were henceforth called Syriacs."[6]
Next we have Elias of Nisibis (†1046) who was the Metropolitan of Nisibis. He was a prolific author, who wrote many works both in Arabic and in Syriac. In his Syriac-Arabic dictionary the term "Aramean” is renowned in "Syriac”. He equates the terms as a single one which means they have the same meaning. [7]
Next we have Abraham Yohannan , born in Urmia [Iran] in 1853 and died in New York in 1925. In his ‘modern’ Syriac-English dictionary he writes:
‘’According to generally accepted opinion the Syriacs were first known as Aramoye or Oromoye, which is Arameans, and their spoken language is Aramaya or Oromoyo, which is Aramaic. The language of the New Testament seems to make a distinction between Armoye and Oromoye grammar. Syriac lexicographers and commentators agree as regards this distinction. The former expression is used to designate the Hellenists or Pagans and the latter is applied to Syriac Christians. In course of time, however, the designation Suryaya or Suryoyo or Suroyo (Syrian/Syriac) came to be replaced by Aramean because the latter expression sounded pagan. Hitherto, indeed, it displeased the Arameans these things, that Syriac Christians despised Aramaic literature until its inception, and probably because it was destroyed by the Gentiles. The term Suraye is generally admitted to have been given to the people by the Greeks, though Syria retains a national tradition which was in use from before the Aramean designation, and the Greeks understood it from the Arameans.” [8]
Eugene Manna (1867-1928), born in Iraq was an educator and later Metropolitan of Basra Iraq. In addition to his lexicon, he wrote a Syriac grammar and two-volume Syriac literature collection "Selected Pieces of Aramaic Literature". In his Aramaic-Arabic dictionary he writes the following about the term ’’Syrian/Syriac’’:
Syriacs in general, whether East or West, were not called Syrians in ancient times , but Arameans dependent on their progenitor Aram, son of Shem, son of Noah. The dated name of Syria from a time was about 400 or 500 BC [...] […] The term Syrian was adopted by the eastern Arameans after Christ through the apostles, who had proselytized these countries.[9]
Last, but not least is a Syriac Dictionary by archbishop Touma Audo, an Aramean-Chaldean scholar and archbishop of Urmia, Iran. Touma Audo published ”The treasury of the Syriac language” in the year 1897 and it is the only Syriac Dictionary that is still used today by Syriac monks, teachers and bishops. If we look under the word Aramean (Aramaye) what we find is Aramean renowned in Syriac: Aramaya, Aramaye hanaw den Suryaye, Leshana suryaya aramaya. In English: Arameans i.e Syriacs, Aramaic language (which is) Syriac language. And if we read his preface he writes quotes like ’’The Aramean name is our genuine and original name’’.[10]
Footnotes (All of these are available to read online)
[1] Dictionnaire Syriaque-Francais
[2] Syriac-French-English-Arabic-Dictionary : Louis Costaz, C.J.
[3] Strong's Lexicon Search Results
[4] Syria from the McClintock and Strong Biblical Cyclopedia.
[5] Syria - Encyclopedia Volume - Catholic Encyclopedia - Catholic Online
[6] (R. Duval (ed.), Lexicon Syriacum, Paris, 1888-1901, p. 1323-1324)
[7] Dr. D. Chwolsohn in Die Ssabier und der Ssabismus, Band I., St. Petersburg, Buchdruckerei der Kaiserlichen Akademie der Wissenschaften, 1856, p. 440)
[8] Syriac-English dictionary by Abraham Yohannan, Part 1, Columbia University, New York 1900, introduction
[9] Bishop JE Manna, Chaldean-Arabic Dictionary, Babel Center Publications. Beirut 1915, p. 11-21
[10] Treasure Of The Syriac Language (volume 1) : Thomas Audo. 185.176.246.64 (talk) 18:33, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Syrian-Aramean terminology