Talk:Colombian Cumbia

message: Here's some stuff I can quite swallow about the article. 
* First of all, it's the first time i've ever seen Rafaga or Gilda labeled glamorous cumbia (what's the spanish expression?). I've always read, heard on TV, or named by people by either cumbia or Musica Tropical (tropical music), or even pachanga. I think the "glamorous cumbia" label is not correct. 
* Second. The bands are dressed in Epoque suits of the 19th Century, and they wear jewelry, sometimes becoming close to an image that can be described like a Liberace style. Besides Ráfaga, I can't think of other bands matching the description. But I hardly listen -let alone watch- cumbia (besides some Gilda back in 1998). Searches on Gilda, and pics of Walter Olmos, Grupo Sombras (Antonio Rios listed on the article was Sombras' singer), Daniel Agostini, Amar Azul, are hard to see as liberace.
* Third, regional scene in the genrebox links Argentina to cumbia villera, which is a currently sucessful offspring (among many offsprings) from the whole argentine cumbia scene, not the whole scene.
* Fourth, Cumbia and Cuarteto have been popular in lower classes in Argentina, previously to the 90s. The boom on urban centres such as Rosario or Buenos Aires, doesn't change the fact they were already very popular on the north of Argentina or Cordoba. 
* Fifth, the article starts saying cumbia is from Colombia, and roughly half the article talks about Cumbia from Argentina. Argentine cumbia should be moved to an article by itself (and the link on the genrebox directed to it).
* Sixth, the (imho) real cumbia is barely mentioned. The spanish wikipedia article is quite extensive :es:Cumbia. This is actually a suggestion, which I would be glad to help to translate.
On a side, I think Luna Nueva deserves to be mentioned on the Argentine Cumbia article, they even performed on the Luna Park... SpiceMan 22:32, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree in most (if not all) your above mentioned points. Glamorous Cumbia seams to be an original phrase of the anonymous user who created both Glamorous cumbia and Gauchos Pesados. I've got no clue about Luna Nueva. We defenitely need an Argentine Cumbia article. -Mariano 08:53, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: 'Tis done, yet woefully incomplete. I took Mexican and Argentine cumbia out and into their own articles, but Argentine cumbia is rather small and Mexican cumbia is barely a stub. Got a link to it in Music of Mexico too. --Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 21:47, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Cumbia surged in Colombia and  expanded to other countries, its a fact. To be considered cumbia it must have a single identity that determines that is a cumbia, for this you can then talk about sub-genres; colombian cumbia, argentinian cumbia, mexican cumbia and please find out and explain what makes the differences among these sub-genres. there is no need to create new pages about these subgenres because I dont think they defer that much from each other, maybe one or two instruments but in essence they are the same. —This unsigned comment was added by F3rn4nd0 (talk • contribs) 03:23, 23 March 2006.
:(I took the liberty of rearranging the above and signing. Please use --~~~~ to sign and date your contributions.) I don't remember now why exactly I split those articles (it was in August 2005!) but I assume it must have been because they are different. The instruments might be similar but history, influences and offshoots/derivations are not. Mixing the history of Arg. cumbia villera with that of Mex. sonidero surely isn't right, is it? I'd rather have several small articles with the particulars of each national cumbia well marked, instead one big article with sections where you don't have enough room to cover minor details. --Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 10:36, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: National cumbias

message: Why is there a link to http://www.sonidoextasis.com.mx? As an example of Cumbia, you might just as well include a link to any other band or, better yet, to a website that offers a variety of free samples of Cumbia music. I've found that address but there are possibly many others: http://music.download.com/2001-9061_32-0.html   - 83.129.176.181 17:08, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Links 

message: This section does not adequately describe Peruvian Cumbia, instead opting to discuss the sub-genre Chicha.  Chicha should be in its own article (current article about Chicha is about food by the same name).  Additionally, the artists selected as examples of Peruvian Chicha are not good examples at all.  Chicha has more of a psychedelia influence than any of the examples represent.  "Etc." is not acceptable in a list of exemplary artists of the particular style.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.152.199.162 (talk) 13:43, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Added. Please add more to the section. Morganfitzp (talk) 21:25, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Peruvian Cumbia 

message: Cumbia isnt an exclusive genre from Colombia, at Panama we have 16 types of cumbia that comes from colonial times.
Some examples:
Spanish Cumbia: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRhZoium_6I
Native American Cumbia: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIfAuPDtUKQ
Africanamerican cumbia: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0yxj5hjUlE  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Panama1519 (talk • contribs) 01:45, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Sweet. Go ahead a write these up in the new section about Panama. Please include print sources if you have some. Morganfitzp (talk) 21:27, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Panamanian Cumbia 

message: I propose that Cumbia music by country be merged into Cumbia. Regional Cumbias are a subset of Cumbia as a whole, yet the main Cumbia article is tiny by comparison and offers little information. Inclusion of everything in the Cumbia music by country article would provide that information.  Morganfitzp (talk) 12:36, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks. I migrated those sections over with a little re-ordering. A lot still needs adding to this article to move it up past start class. Morganfitzp (talk) 21:29, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

text: I am currently translating the article Cumbia (Colombia) from Spanish. I would suggest that I finish my job there first. After that, you can decide on merging the articles if that pleases you Nicoguaro (talk) 17:53, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: That's amazing. Thanks for your work. Morganfitzp (talk) 19:08, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

text:  Thanks, Nicoguaro! Should you need help with the translations, please tell! :-) Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 20:00, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

text: Klbrain (talk) 22:44, 12 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal 

message: I think the editing criteria for this article are bit too harsh. Many editors have contributed substantially referenced material here, and our content has been removed. The result is a paltry article that fails to represent the depth and breadth of one of Latin America's largest cultural traditions. Rather than fight editing wars, I'm tempted to visit this page and request an admin step in and assess the history of what's been happening here. I'm reticent to do that because I'd rather get into the far more important history of the actual subject at hand: cumbia.. Morganfitzp (talk) 21:58, 4 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Over-policed 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The opening paragraph is the generally accepted truth: "It began as a courtship dance practiced among the Indigenous population on the Caribbean coasts of Colombia. It later mixed with African and European instruments, steps and musical characteristics. "  The thrust of the article does not support that, due to dilution.
The only controversy I'm aware of is; was it pure Indigenous origin, or Black too, and possibly Spanish, and how much of each.  (And how it spread.) Two nearby rival villages claim origin, Big Wow. (IMO, mixture not purity seems logical.)
(My impression; It was also like a circular square dance and the "caller" as a well respected, wise villager (I envision similarities to a medicine man) who guiding the dance, was often also (lightly?) directing individual courtships.)  
With all the other "possible" descriptions listed, I wonder if every harebrained armchair postulate is indiscriminately being included, as in shitty objective journalism?  If the editors can't decide, it seems there ought to be enough info included that the reader could at least assign probabilities of veracity.  ...but who could keep reading knowing they are sifting trash? Not the average reader.  Cheers! --2602:306:CFCE:1EE0:78B0:1743:9EC6:2F6B (talk) 20:35, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is it really THAT controversial?  

message: Quoting: " ...Jose Barros, in order to preserve the original rhythms of traditional Cumbia music."
The opening defining sentence mentions Cumbia's rhythm.  "Rhythm" is is used 17 times in the article.  Am I missing something? Cumbian rhythm is never defined, not even described.  —  Also, why no sound clips; Debussy gets about 20! Guess what? It's about the music!   — Cheers!  --2602:306:CFCE:1EE0:78B0:1743:9EC6:2F6B (talk) 21:19, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ain't got no rhythm! 

message: The article stress overly cumbias Colombian origins and its nature as Colombian folklore. Just like rock music has its roots in the US but is not longer an exclusive US-phenomenon cumbia is now understood as something larger, no longer "Colombian". Indeed most cumbia subgenres have little resemblance to the original cumbia, both in music, aesthetics or sociocultural setting. Take New Chilean Cumbia Rock, Cumbia cheta or technocumbia. Dentren | Talk 04:55, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: NPOV tag