Talk:Super Smash Bros. Brawl/Archive 13

message: This notice is now on the official website:
"This is the official site for the Wii game Super Smash Bros. Brawl — a place where I offer personal, straight-from-the-creator reports on the project.
-Masahiro Sakurai (Sora Ltd.)"
I highly doubt that Sakurai would go out of his way to mention Sora Ltd. on the site unless that studio was developing the game. All evidence points toward Sora being the developer: HAL has not made any sort of official statement about SSBB. Sakurai has made many, and we know he's part of Sora. We know that Nintendo funded a brand-new studio in order to develop SSBB, and lo and behold, that's right around the time Sakurai says Sora was created. In addition, we know Sora is working on several "unnamed projects", with Sakurai as head. I think a monkey could make the connection here. Can we pull out the common sense clause and end this "Unknown developer" nonsense now? Phediuk 13:39, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No.  No other website lists Sora as the developer...they all use Nintendo because they don't know who is developing the game.  We would be making an assumption that Sora is developing the game.  For all we know, Sakurai is merely mentioning his own company to promote it.  While common sense seems to be the logical course, this is something that needs to be verified, and not even IGN-type sites will use Sora as the developer.  The game is slated to come out some time this year- and it certainly won't get cancelled; there's no rush to uploading the information.  When it's announced, it's announced and then it can be put on the article.  --myselfalso 14:20, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Developer 

message: As I stated earlier in the now archived version of the discussion, I'm trying to improve (mostly by expanding) the opening paragraph as per WP:LEAD, since an article of this length needs a longer opening.  Of course, I don't feel that what I have is sufficient, so I'm not adding it in yet.  Any help is appreciated.  My rough draft can be found here.  -TwilightPhoenix 02:29, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead Paragraph  

message: Another item: The Cracker Launcher. "After you grab this item, it’ll rapidly release blast after blast of firecrackers that explode gaudily. You can walk around and jump while holding the launcher. You can also aim the launcher at different angles by tilting the Control Stick up or down."
They mention the control stick, but they still don't tell us what controller. Ah well. Disaster Kirby 08:31, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Another thing: Is it absolutely necessary to add every new detail given? By the release of the game (especially if they continue with this pattern of pushing back the release), we're likley going to be overflowing with unencyclopedic "filler" info. I think we ought to be more judgemental about what is important and what is not. For instance, I've integrated the bit about the Cracker Launcher to make the paragraph flow, but I really don't think that mention was necessary. You Can't See Me! 08:45, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I would personally think that the Wii Remote was ocmpletely ruled out, as is the Nunchuk. Can you imagine playing Smash bros with the Remote/Nunchuk setup? 84.13.127.171 09:01, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, as a matter of fact, I can. It's not that hard to imagine playing a game with a controller. In any case, that is speculation. You Can't See Me! 09:08, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

text: That doesn't eliminate the use of the Wii Remote completely, though. It could mean something as simple as a button/analog-only interface (no motion sensing), for instance, which is still possible on the Wii Remmote. You Can't See Me! 09:24, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Is it the bazooka from Kirby's Air Ride? It has the same function and Kirby is holding it the same way. - Joshua368 12:31, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  May 31st update 

message: I am a subscriber to Nintendo Power, and as such, I receive e-mail updates on each coming issue. Just yesterday, I got an e-mail that said that the next issue would have "news on a hugely anticipated brawler," with a screenshot from the first trailer (the same one we have under the "Characters" section) nearby the text. My only question -- who could this hugely anticipated brawler be? With no name given, it is highly likely, if not inevitable, that this is a new character announcement, most likely Sonic the Hedgehog.
I know that this is merely speculation (which is forbidden), but, being Brawl-related and very possibly a new character announcement, I thought that I had some kind of responsibility to tell the people here at Wikipedia. So keep your eyes peeled for the next NP. Teamrocketspy621 19:30, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Or it could be a brawler who is hugely anticipated simply because he/she is so beloved from the previous game(s) and has yet to be confirmed.  Frankly, this could be anything, but any news is good news. --Bishop2 19:37, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: When would the next issue come, then? Erik Jensen (Appreciate|Laugh At) 19:41, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not completely sure. But I'll post anything I find here when it arrives. Unless someone else has already gotten it and beats me to the punch. Teamrocketspy621 19:44, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hugely Anticipated Brawler? 

message: Before you say "We don't know the release date!" I have good news, so please read this before replying:
According to Jeux-France.com, in this article:
http://www.jeux-france.com/news20454_mario-kart-wii-annonce-a-l-e3-.html
The release dates for Brawl will be released to the public at E3. This site is not known to spread false rumors, nor has it ever been proven not to be credible. Yes, yes, the word "Rumeur" appears a few times, but this whole article doesn't seem so far-fetched to me. Anywho, this doesn't need to be mentioned in Brawl's article anywhere, just thought that I'd give some people a heads-up. Teamrocketspy621 16:20, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Like any other store, they probably just put that date as a filler date. Nintendo hasn't announced the release date yet, so as far as I'm concerned, all dates listed on such websites have been and still are fake. Disaster Kirby 21:53, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Release Date 

message: Should we replace the battlefield pic withh Delfino Plaza? I was wondering if this could be a possiblity. If we can't, should we add the pic with Battlefield? OBEY STARMAN 17:35, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This article looks like a 12 yearold chainsawed it. We really should restore it to its orgins. OBEY STARMAN 18:13, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't know Jason had a son... AFAIK, the article in its original status had sourcing based on the Dojo site in its original status, and now that the Dojo site is all different, getting it to the way it was originally is impossible. I think. Erik Jensen (Appreciate|Laugh At) 18:17, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Then instead of complaining about it, be bold and fix the damn page.  And I think we should have a Delfino Plaza pic.  --myselfalso 21:29, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

text: The stages section is pretty small and looks like it doesn't need to be any bigger than it currently is in text quantity... which means we shouldn't have two stage images in the section (one for Battlefield, one for Delfino Plaza), there's barely enough room for one pic as it is. Perhaps then we need to decide which picture should be chosen over the other to be shown in the stage section? I would vote for keeping the Battlefield pic as it is because that stage is far more thematically and symbolically attached to Brawl and the whole SSB series, and Delfino is only one of what could be many new sensational stages based on various game franchises to be revealed before the release. Erik Jensen (Appreciate|Laugh At) 17:54, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Delfino Plaza pic? 

message: I see there's no mention of it in the Stages section. Why is this when the castle – which was almost certainly Daein – was shown on one of the earlier trailers? Ashnard Talk 10:18, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I see that it says "the interior and exterior of a gloomy castle", although it is highly probable by the standards/flags on the castle that it is Daein. Ashnard Talk 10:21, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Because saying it is a Fire Emblem stage without any proof is speculation. -Sukecchi 11:44, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't like to be a pain, but where is the proof for the other stages then? Only Battlefield and Shadow Moses are sourced. Does that mean that the other stages are speculative? Ashnard Talk 11:48, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, that's a bit odd. We had a note saying that Pit's stage was confirmed since it was a Palutena statue, and that's the same situation. Seems the note (and any mention of the stage) is gone at the moment though. Gurko 12:39, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: On a technicality it would still count as speculation or original research for Pit's stage. To stay barely within the line it'll probably need two or more citations that are very similar in detail. For Pit's stage, a comparison picture of Palutena is enough. In the article it should use words that aren't definitive, like "supposedly" or "it appears that.." - Zero1328 Talk? 12:55, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  If there were a picture of a Daein flag/standard used as a source, could the "gloomy castle" then be identified as a Fire Emblem castle? Thanks. Ashnard Talk 19:53, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Seconded, keep things that are definite (gloomy castle, stage with changing seasons, stage with crumbling platforms) while removing speculation (that the above three are Fire Emblem, Yoshi Stage, Palutena) until the site confirms it.--Viridistalk|contributions 20:31, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  It's not the Daine flag, it just looks like the Dain flag. It has a different symbol. nindb.classicgaming.gamespy.com Look there 60.228.192.105 02:55, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fire Emblem stage 

message: In the Nintendo 2006 Tour Trailer there was shown a stage of giant bloody atlas-esque people holding platforms in what looked like a dimly lit cave. Should this be added to the stage list??
:There's currently indecision (in a way) as to what to include and it hasd been suggested that all stages that haven't been confirmed by Nintendo should be deleted. However, this would leave only Delfino Plaza, Battlefield and Shadow Moses despite the numerous other stages seen in trailers. Ashnard Talk 21:40, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Leading back to the stages section, should we go for an all-out deletion of non-confirmed stages or should we describe the stage and not speculate upon which series/character it represents. As stated above, there are some difficulties with the latter. Ashnard Talk 08:44, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stage in the Nintendo 2006 Tour Trailer  

message: It appears to me that this article is having lots of debate over what to do for the daily updates, so I had an idea. Why not make lists for these updates? Kinda like the ones on the Halo 3 page! Make lists for confirmed stages, confirmed items, confirmed characters, and just add the new update daily, with a small description next to it. 
EX: Items:
Gooey Bomb - A bomb that sticks to players and the ground. Can be transferred by touch
Next Item - Next description
And so on. Thoughts?
Ragingtsunami726 21:48, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If we're going to rewrite the entire article, the best time to do it is after E3 and much more information is released. Unknownlight 23:09, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reorganizing the Article 

message: Just wanna make this clear. With the June 4th update, it's safe to say that Yoshi will be a character in the game. BUT THERE IS STILL NO PROOF OF HIS CHARACTER IN THE GAME. FOR ALL WE KNOW IT COULD BE BIRDO. So don't start with the Yoshi crap please :)
Thank you.Dengarde 07:21, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In other words, he's practically confirmed, but he's not "confirmed". :P Disaster Kirby 07:25, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  It's pretty much been like that since the E3 trailer anyways :P This just adds to it Dengarde 07:26, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

text: But technicly, she IS a Yoshi...I think. Dengarde 12:55, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

text: What a silly comment. Of course they mean something. The symbols are used to connect each update to the character they go with. Example: Mario and Delfino Plaza. Both have the Mario Symbol. -Sukecchi 13:04, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

text: We shouldn't have Sonic stuff.  (Zojo 14:12, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But we do, so Waynut stuff about Yoshi. Anubiz 14:15, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Your logic is very flawed, Anubiz. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kenny2k (talk • contribs) 
One thing's for certain, though. Yoshi's symbol appeared alongside the update (which would make sense, since it is Yoshi music). There's no reason not to believe that Yoshi is going to be in the game. All we have to do now is wait for Nintendo to show us a visual appearance of Yoshi, and we're set to add a bit about him to the article. Disaster Kirby 17:27, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yoshi 

message: I think the article should have some mention about how the control method has not yet been announced and how *INSERT MAKER HERE* has somewhat mysteriously mentioned that it might be a good idea to keep those GameCube controllers.
Also it is worth noting that recent updates to the official site have included both an icon of a Wii remote hold sideways and the mention of the fact that there will be a control stick.
While I believe the article should not elaborate more on how the control scheme could be, it should present the given facts and for now let the read make their own decision on how they think the game will be controlled.--Henke37 09:31, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Control method 

message: Its been agreed that this article needs a major revamping but no one has revamped it and it has been at least two weeks now, I wish I could do it but I'm going on vacation If I come back and see the article the same I'm gonna be angry come on lets get this article done nowMarioman12 17:21, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We will not be listing everything, so that format doesn't work. As more general information comes out, it will replace the specific information that we have. TTN 23:01, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: fixing the article AKA stop whining and actually do something

message: I noticed that semi-protection for the article ran out earlier today (if it was supposed to). Should we request for semi-protection again? It seems that there have been two unhelpful edits by IP users already, and since the site is updating daily on weekdays now, chances are likely that a number of IP users are going to try and mess up the article more than it already is.
Perhaps we should wait and see if the same problem as before begins to occur again instead? Disaster Kirby 00:59, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protection? 

message: Ok, the article needs alot of help now. Since everyone seems to be complaining about the article and not doing anything, I'll take the job of rewriting it. This is supposed to be an encyclopedia article, not an IGN faq. Trust me, I know what I'm doing. If anyone has any comments/suggestions, just let me know. Kenny2k
The whole article, or just the characters section? I think you should concentrate your efforts there. Anyway, I'm glad someone is doing something about it. JMJ 07:11, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: good luck. every time i've tried to fix it, other people come in and change it even more. FyreNWater 07:25, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  I'm going to rewrite the article