Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anime and manga/Haruhi Suzumiya

message: I started this and am having difficulty with a few things. Any help would be appreciated. My main concern is that I do not know how to add things to the discussion pages in order to say that those pages are under this Task Force.Sbloemeke 20:33, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That bit's done easily enough, though you have to be careful not to break the talk page banner. More importantly though, have you discussed this with any of the other editors for the pages you want to cover? Because it's usually good to first gather support and then start the taskforce, so that it doesn't spontaneously die on you. --tjstrf talk 20:42, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I tried to get a wikiproject on this, and most people said it would be better as a task force. So, due to the lack of support for the project, I made this. Sbloemeke 20:47, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This what you're after? --tjstrf talk 21:22, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly. Thank you very much!Sbloemeke 21:43, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Just FYI:

message: User:Sbloemeke/Haruhi Suzumiya (anime) That is a start. Anyone is free to edit.Sbloemeke 12:12, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Like I said, the Setting, Affiliations, and SOS Brigade sections would be better off in a Haruhi Suzumiya (franchise) article since they cover the entire series, and not just the anime, so I believe these should be removed from your test page. Also, remember whenever you are linking to a page in Wikipedia, Wikilink it by placing two brackets on either side of the page. I fixed the link to your test page above.--十八 23:51, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the setting should be part of the Anime, as it is very Anime specific. It mentions episode appearences and stuff. But I see what you mean with the other ones.Sbloemeke 00:26, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed. Does it look good as a start, or are there certain issues I'm dealing with? Sbloemeke 22:00, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Haruhi Suzumiya (anime)

message: User:Juhachi/Haruhi Suzumiya (franchise). To couple the efforts by Sbloemeke, I have started a draft of the franchise article and it's free to be edited by all those that wish to do so.--十八 08:17, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, that page looks good. Next to do is the light novel one. Sbloemeke 22:00, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Haruhi Suzumiya (franchise)

message: I made a test page at User:Sbloemeke/The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya for what the light novel page would look at. It's open to edits. If there are none needed, I think we should export these pages into the template and complete the arrangement. That also brings up a question. How should it be arranged?Sbloemeke 20:51, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It looks good, but before we launch these pages, I think there is one other thing I want to clear up. I believe that the Haruhi Suzumiya (anime) article should be instead The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya (anime) at least for now as a second season hasn't been announced yet, and the lead itself on that page introduces the name The Melancholy first. So I think at least until the second season's name has been announced, this should be what we should do.--十八 21:15, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course. That is the serie's official name in anime form, so until it comes out, it becomes the Melancholy.Sbloemeke 22:43, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya

message: I think it should be done as so. Have the franchise article at the top first. Below that can go a Series section that lists the light novel and anime articles. Below that can go a Novels section which lists the ten novels as it is now. Everything else can stay the same.--十八 21:22, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm in favor of that plus one more change. Take the list of anime episodes and put it in the top as well. The far bottom becomes all about music. My guess is that the top will probably be expanded with time to include the English arrangement, the radio broadcasts, etc. I think we should do this to start moving towards a non-list section of the template.Sbloemeke 22:47, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm okay with that. Should we get started then? I really hope that this massive change doesn't start anything major. This taskforce has been linked to the main Haruhi article and to WP:Anime for over a week now, so I don't believe people can accuse us of working behind the scenes.--十八 23:31, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Changing right now. It looks good. I just need to import the cover to the light novel Haruhi 1, and export the contents to the article.Sbloemeke 23:55, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Template arrangement

message: That looks absolutely amazing. And not only that, I got to take things off the to-do list. :) Now onto improvements.Sbloemeke 00:09, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yay! 

message: List of The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya episodes appears to be a well-written article, and the previous objections at its WP:FLC page were primarily on the lack of fair-use rationales for the images, which obviously isn't a problem. Should it be renominated for WP:FLC, or would a minor cleanup be needed? Other episode lists that are FL quality are of similar quality. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 07:31, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If we could get some inline citations for the lead and the anachronic numbering section then that would help the process move smoother. I've taken part in the FLC process much in the past month and I've seen that objection come up many times. Other than that, I believe nothing else needs to be dealt with.--十八 07:33, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Do lists become GA nominees? Because while I don't think it's a Featured List candidate yet because of the citations, I definately think it could pass a Good Article nomination...Sbloemeke 11:00, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

text: EDIT: Nevermind. Just saw the GA criteria. I don't think it's ready for FL, but it's close.Sbloemeke 11:08, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There's also the matter about the formatting of the table. The air dates on the right get repositioned depending on how long the episode title is and it makes the table look ugly currently. Can anyone fix this?--十八 11:10, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I toyed around with it a little bit. I think what needs to be done is add a new column "Original Air Date", where all the air dates go under. It's what they do in other lists. I'm going to explore around a bit.Sbloemeke 21:30, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I asked Ned Scott about the allignment issues, and he said it was an IE rendering problem, and I was amazed to see it all nice and orderly in firefox; sometimes I wonder why I use MSN to browse Wiki. *roll eyes* Anyway, I didn't think that the lack of a separate column for the air dates would matter for an FLC, so I've already renominated it.--十八 02:34, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, to be fair, Opera has the same issue. I've been trying to figure out a way to fix it. Basically, the table is cheating it's layout. Each episode row is one part table row, one part new table. That is, there's a separate table embedded into each row. This is how we're able to make the list sortable while still having one row on top of another (title/air date above summary). To align them the table cell is at a fixed width for air date, but title is left unfixed, so it can flex with the browser window being resized. I think I might just use percentages and see if that works better. -- Ned Scott 03:18, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Episode list 

message: So, now that we have the Melancholy split up into a general, a novel, and an anime, and fair stability, I think we should now look ahead.
I see two major projects up and coming for this group. It may end up being different, but in my opinion, these are the two we should focus on:
1. Charecter Articles. These articles are mess quality, and need to be fixed up. We also need some sort of consistancy between them, as all of their layouts are completely different. Should we choose this, there's a whole bunch of steps.
2. Light Novels. We presently have 4 light novel articles, and only 1 of them (Melancholy) is at B level quality. I can probably fix up number 2 fairly shortly, as I should be finished with it soon enough. However, should we choose this, there are also a lot of tasks.
So, basically, in the long run, I'm looking to get all articles away from start class and towards B class. I'm in favor of doing it in individual parts, so start with one of the two, and when that's done, do the other. 
So, what do you all think?Sbloemeke 22:45, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that's a good place to start on both counts. I've never read any of the novels so I probably wouldn't be able to help on any of the light novel articles aside from copyediting. As for the character articles, there's a fair amount of spoilers in there that I would rather not come across if I had to, which is why I've mainly been neglecting them since their creation. If I started reading the novels I know I would be more help, but as it stands, I think copyediting and formatting is the best I can do.--十八 22:59, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hm. That's basically what I was thinking. I think the biggest problem with the novels is that pretty much nobody has read them. Well, as I go along I'll fill in holes on it. I was thinking work on Charecters would be better myself.Sbloemeke 23:19, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The character articles need a concrete layout. Personality, background, plot synopsis, in other media, and other varied items would be a start. Thoughts? Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 02:41, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree with a couple of thos things. My idea for a charecter was a lead (of course), personality/background, SOS Brigade Role (Includes info on what they are and their relation to the story), and a section on their seiyus. Plot synopsi really do not belong in a charecter page, in my opinion.Sbloemeke 11:29, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: By plot synopsis, I was referring to their importance in terms of the plot, and any significant things they did in relation to it. Your SOS Brigade role fulfills the same purpose. And if appropiate, an "in other media" section could be included.Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 20:37, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Makes sense. I don't really like calling it plot synopsis, though, as charecters are not plot. Could we just call it "SOS Brigade Role" for good article purposes? I'm still hesitant on "In Other Media", but I'm open to it, nonetheless. Maybe it works.Sbloemeke 01:09, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As to the naming, certaintly. "In other media" only becomes appropiate if it actually is useful. It does contribute towards passing GA criteria 3a (covering the major aspects) however. The biggest thing we need for these articles (considering that we want them to become GAs) is out-of-universe sources/references/reception/etc. Given the popularity of the Haruhi characters, however, I'm fairly certain that this is less of a problem. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 06:15, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course. I don't think a reception section is needed, but I'd like to at least see what can be done. I'm going to start on Haruhi herself to make a template article, and I'll include this stuff.Sbloemeke 18:26, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Haruhi Suzumiya is now formatted correctly. I tried to clean it up a bit, but it still may not be.Sbloemeke 19:02, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

text: If you were to do the other articles, please take not that it is SOS Brigade not SoS. I had to change all these in the Haruhi Suzumiya article after your additions.--十八 04:38, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: SOS it is. I'll make sure to include it. Fox816 17:30, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Go ahead. :)Sbloemeke 20:48, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Yuki page is redone. Cites are needed possibly. There should be a bit more from the novels, however, information is scarce.Fox816 07:09, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Mikuru page overhauled. Can anyone upload an image of the Older Mikuru for the Mikuru article? It would go under the Older self section. Thanks. I'm trying to find one suitable yet dont know full procedures of uploading it and meeting the wiki guidelines. still reading up on it. Fox816 06:09, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would do it myself, but I can't get to that episode (10, anachronic) yet. If no one else does it by Saturday, it'll be up on that day.--十八 06:11, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Thanks. I was hopin to get a screen capture myself but I can't find the episode with a high-resolution quality to make it look halfway decent.Fox816 05:28, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just FYI, Adult Mikuru should not be a seperate section. It should be with other sections, just as the Agency and the Integrate Data Entity are/should be integrated with it. I'm going to make a quick change, but you may want to further change it.Sbloemeke 19:39, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Next Step: 

message: Could I have somebody copyedit this for me? I am not the best at writing, but more of spilling out ideas and structures. After that, I think it could be at least  a "B" class article.Sbloemeke 18:28, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not believe any of the novel articles could be up to B class until something about reception is added to each of them. With only a Plot section as the main source of info in each of these articles right now, it's not much, and thus they are all at Start class.--十八 23:32, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[The Sigh of Haruhi Suzumiya]] 

message: I believe the recent edits to Haruhi Suzumiya reflect a growing problem with these pages. I think most of what was added (especially the 'Relation with Kyon' section) was cruft, though I can't go through it right now and do a mass deletion on this basis alone. The point here is that these bios have a high propensity to be filled to the brim with fan cruft. Also, there seems to be a lot of "In episode x, this happened, and in episode y, this happened". This is not only confusing considering what system is used to denote the episodes (chronologically or anachronically) but it also is bad practice since the anime is not the source material, and the novels are. In short, anything that gives direct reference to the anime should either be kept low key, or be re-referenced to reflect which novel the information came from. However, this would not apply to the events of episode 9/14, "Someday in the Rain", since that was an anime-only story.--十八 04:40, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is inevitable, given the popularity of the series, that it will receive a large amount of cruft given by fans. It simply has to be reverted on a case-to-case basis. Also, be bold and remove the material you believe is cruft. As I mentioned above, the character articles, especially if we want them to be GAs (or possibly an FA for the Haruhi article if we really try), need a consistent structure. This structure should be placed on the project page and become policy of sorts for Haruhi articles. Most of the material that is currently present is all in-universe, and any self-respecting GA reviewer would fail any nomination based on that criteria. As such, creation/conception, reception/popularity, and possibly in other media sections are required. The obvious difficulty is finding and sourcing the information, unless someone has such a source already. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 04:49, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Pretty much, the person almost did a revert to the old form of the article, which we agreed was unacceptable. I reverted it back, though I don't have the time to take further steps.Sbloemeke 11:18, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Character articles 

message: I guess I want to make a small review here. "B" class review.
The following articles are up for review:
Haruhi Suzumiya
Mikuru Asahina
Yuki Nagato
They are in OK shape prose wise, and are strong in all areas. They also are stable enough for this level. A lotof work still needs to be done, but I think we can upgrade them to "B" level at least. What does everyone else think? (Remember, this isn't GA review. Moderate flaws are acceptable, Major ones aren't)Sbloemeke 19:53, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The lead in all three needs to be expanded. Remember how the lead is meant to summerize the entire article briefly and give an overview of what the reader is going to encounter. One paragraph will suffice.--十八 20:28, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Lead as in...intro paragraph, before the Background section in this case, for the article? I can possibly work one up, however I tend to include too much info so if anyone can make one to preferred size I can work on the references for Yuki and Mikuru. Should I cite info based on DVD release in Japan/US or the novels? The DVD US release is underway and EP00-03 is available. I'd rather go with the novels except the content isn't translated except for a few fansites (wiki.sos-dan > Links under Fan Sites English | Baka-Tsuki Translation Project) although credibility is a question. I can essentially go through the fan translations, find the chapter where the info should be, then cite the novel provided I can find all the info to do so. Fox816 01:32, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Generally, the source material should be the backbone of the cites, so if you're going to be working on cites, I'd say cite the novels the information is in with . And yes the lead must be expanded. I'll see if I can pull up a draft for an expanded lead for Haruhi Suzumiya this weekend if no one does it before me. I have some minor experience working with the Kanon character articles for reference.--十八 02:49, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Lead expanded in Haruhi Suzumiya. Now can we upgrade it to B class? It has everything.Sbloemeke 21:42, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks good. I performed a copyedit and upgraded the class to B. Now to just do it for the other 4 articles.--十八 23:02, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I'll fix the grammar and sentences a little to make it "smoother" for the reader. Overall it looks great. I'll fix the Kyon and Itsuki articles later this week. I haven't had much time lately. And since the lead has the information about the voice actresses, should the VA section be taken out?...or atleast for the Haruhi article the information about her award winning performance be placed in the lead instead? Fox816 00:16, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I honestly do not know. For now, I am not too concerned about it. Once all 5 articles are up to "B" class I'd pay attention to it. But for now, I'm more concerned of streamlining the articles and getting them to "B" class. I'll get Nagato and Mikuru up to "B" class like tommorow.Sbloemeke 02:16, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I tried to copyedit and expand it to the length of the Haruhi Suzumiya article, but User:Sephiroth BCR reverted me and now the lead is once again inadequate. I take it up here since he/she is a member of this work group.--十八 02:11, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, I took a little look at the Nagato article. The lead has a good amount of information in it, basically the same as the Haruhi article has. All it needs is a little bit of extra wording to make it adequate.Sbloemeke 11:50, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Notice that Haruhi's lead is a full paragraph where as Yuki's is smaller and does not supply an adequate overview of the entire article. It has to be expanded.--十八 12:07, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I condensed the lead since most of the material belonged in the body. I'll expand it a little for your purposes if you want. In any case, all of these articles need out-of-universe information. Anyone want to dig up character creation/development/conception, reception, and in other media references? Anything really will do - at this point there is no out-of-universe information besides the voice actors. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 22:34, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I've cleaned up the Yuki Nagato article. Feel free to promote it. And as stated above, out-of-universe information would be highly appreciated. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 23:15, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, I promoted it. The article definately needs some OOU perspective, and that is probably the first thing I want to look for after all the other charecter articles are B class. Asahina Mikuru is next in the lead. Sbloemeke 01:42, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The point I'm making is that condensing a lead just because "most of the material belonged in the body" goes against what a lead is meant to do. Take a look at WP:LEAD where it states that the lead is meant to stand alone and be an overview of the article. In this respect, the lead is meant to be repetitive, but is that way so anyone that wants a quick overview of the article can just read the lead instead of having to go through the article; that is why leads exist.--十八 01:44, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps I was unclear. The lead is a summary, and some material is better placed in the body and included as part of a general summary in the lead. In any case, let's stop bickering and move onto the other articles. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 03:52, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I've been looking over some character articles that are Good or Featured status on how to revert to an out-of-universe perspective. It would be helpful if there was more information or interviews regarding the series to include, however, a fair amount can still be done to do it. No matter how you look at it, the three articles will need a fair overhaul. Fox816 23:45, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Definately. Remember, 2 of them just barely became B class, and the last one should become B class soon, but it isn't. There's a wide range in the B class status. I'll edit Asahina as soon as I get back from graduation rehearsal.Sbloemeke 13:51, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "B" Class? 

message: I just finished work on the Nagato lead. If someone could copyedit it, I'd appreciate it. Then it should be "B" class. But it needs a ton of references after this step. Does anyone know where to find these references?Sbloemeke 13:04, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I tried to copyedit and expand it to the length of the Haruhi Suzumiya article, but User:Sephiroth BCR reverted me and now the lead is once again inadequate. I take it up here since he/she is a member of this work group.--十八 02:11, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, I took a little look at the Nagato article. The lead has a good amount of information in it, basically the same as the Haruhi article has. All it needs is a little bit of extra wording to make it adequate.Sbloemeke 11:50, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Notice that Haruhi's lead is a full paragraph where as Yuki's is smaller and does not supply an adequate overview of the entire article. It has to be expanded.--十八 12:07, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I condensed the lead since most of the material belonged in the body. I'll expand it a little for your purposes if you want. In any case, all of these articles need out-of-universe information. Anyone want to dig up character creation/development/conception, reception, and in other media references? Anything really will do - at this point there is no out-of-universe information besides the voice actors. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 22:34, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I've cleaned up the Yuki Nagato article. Feel free to promote it. And as stated above, out-of-universe information would be highly appreciated. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 23:15, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, I promoted it. The article definately needs some OOU perspective, and that is probably the first thing I want to look for after all the other charecter articles are B class. Asahina Mikuru is next in the lead. Sbloemeke 01:42, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The point I'm making is that condensing a lead just because "most of the material belonged in the body" goes against what a lead is meant to do. Take a look at WP:LEAD where it states that the lead is meant to stand alone and be an overview of the article. In this respect, the lead is meant to be repetitive, but is that way so anyone that wants a quick overview of the article can just read the lead instead of having to go through the article; that is why leads exist.--十八 01:44, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps I was unclear. The lead is a summary, and some material is better placed in the body and included as part of a general summary in the lead. In any case, let's stop bickering and move onto the other articles. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 03:52, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I've been looking over some character articles that are Good or Featured status on how to revert to an out-of-universe perspective. It would be helpful if there was more information or interviews regarding the series to include, however, a fair amount can still be done to do it. No matter how you look at it, the three articles will need a fair overhaul. Fox816 23:45, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Definately. Remember, 2 of them just barely became B class, and the last one should become B class soon, but it isn't. There's a wide range in the B class status. I'll edit Asahina as soon as I get back from graduation rehearsal.Sbloemeke 13:51, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Nagato

message: I finished the lead there. It needs a copyedit (My grammar is aweful, sorry. :) ), but I think it's good enough for "B" class.Sbloemeke 17:00, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Mikuru

message: Why does this article exist? It should be part of a List of Haruhi Suzumiya media (which might need to be created in the future if Haruhi Suzumiya (franchise) is to be an FA) or be incorporated elsewhere. It's not even linked to by the current Haruhi template. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 05:21, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It was automatically created after the category for the Haruhi Suzumyia cast members was deleted. I motion to just delete the article as it serves as repetitive information already found in List of characters in the Haruhi Suzumiya series.--十八 07:23, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Feel free to set an Afd for it. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 06:21, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm just going to redirect it to the characters article then.--十八 07:28, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[List of Haruhi Suzumiya cast members]] 

message: I've provided some minor fixes to the images for both, and noticed that both of these lists could be made into FLs fairly easily with the right amount of effort. An expanded intro, inclusion of references for release dates, run times, etc for each album, and reception for each would be sufficient. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 05:21, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: All of the albums already have run times as far as I can tell. And I do not know if it would be that easy. There's a bunch of guidelines that go along with album articles found at WP:Album, and I've never tried to bring a list of albums to an FL (and have never seen one promoted to FL to boot), so I don't really know where to start. What you said to include may work, but then finding all the information and reception for each album would be daunting to say the least.--十八 07:34, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh God, that would be extremely hard. It's doable, no doubt, I'm just not going to do it myself, yet. It's hard enough to get those things. But there is not a single list of albums on Wikipedia to my knowledge that is FA class.Sbloemeke 23:39, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[List of Haruhi Suzumiya albums]] and [[List of Haruhi Suzumiya character song albums]] 

message: OK, before I make these changes, I want to just post it here and have a chance of input. My plan is to move everything that is now under "Series Concepts" to a new page called "Organizations in Haruhi Suzumiya". This would also include the counter SOS brigade and opposing entities that I will eventually read up in Volume 9 (Assuming Baka-Suki translates it quick enough.) 
Also, I want to get a few new charecter pictures to put tiny thumbnails next to each charecter in the "Characters" section. The prose for each will also be expanded a tiny bit, but nothing extensive. Just their name, cardinal trait, affiliation, and maybe something random would do.
Last, I think the lead picture and infobox needs to be changed. I looked around at GA class franchise pages, and it generally has a large vertical picture and details on every version of the product made in infobox form. 
At the point that is done, I believe that a copyedit would be enough to nominate to GA class.
What are your opinions?Sbloemeke 23:45, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree on the naming of the new article. Haruhi Suzumiya is not only the title character's name, but is shorthand for the series as a whole, so in order to avoid something that is ambiguous, why not have it be Organizations in the Haruhi Suzumiya series? This would follow the title convention already in use at List of characters in the Haruhi Suzumiya series. I'm fine with everything else, but would you please provide these GA franchise articles you are referencing? I've never seen any before.--十八 01:14, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Bleh. Why did the series get cut off? It was supposed to say that. Planetes, Sailor Moon, Kanon, and Death Note are all good articles that have what I was saying. A little charecter detail, the variations, the sidebars, etc. I'm noticing a lot have series concepts in them, but not to the point of this article where we list the organizations and provide a blurb about them.Sbloemeke 02:12, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wait a second here. The articles you cited just provide a general overview of the entire material, but those are different from this one since Haruhi Suzumiya doesn't really have a center, aside from the light novels, but then the fandom mainly came from the anime's creation. I meant other articles that had the (franchise) disambig in their title, like Dragon Ball (franchise). Having had a big part in the Kanon article, I can say right now that would probably not be a good template to go off of since that article is built around the visual novel that the series originated from; that is the "center" I speak of which Haruhi seems to lack of. But having also had taken part in the GA review of Sailor Moon, I'd say I can see what you mean about the development and how it should be organized.--十八 03:07, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What do you mean a center?Sbloemeke 22:38, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: By a "center," he is referring to the most prominent aspect of a given franchise. For instance, the anime of a franchise might be the most visible and well-known aspect of a given franchise. However, for the Haruhi series, the light novels are as notable as the anime, and on FA-class anime articles such as Madlax and Excel Saga, their primary feature is the anime, which much of the article is geared to. However, this is not the case with the Haruhi series, hence this article must be written differently. See my post below for details. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 22:44, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

text: There's still no general overall reception, development (which also discusses the transitions occuring between the light novels, anime, manga, etc), and themes of the series. A larger plot summary is necessary, outlining any differences between the plot of the previously mentioned installments. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 02:20, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Haruhi Suzumiya (franchise)]] 

message: After finding some new information on the video games, I have found that there will be three of them developed by three companies playable on three consoles. How long should we wait before starting a Haruhi Suzumiya (video games) article?--十八 15:00, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Let's wait until they release more information on it possibly when word of release dates. Fox816 00:02, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not one, not two, but three different games 

message: Is there any particular reason we're using this word? The original Japanese does not use it (it uses 超能力者, not エスパー) and the official translations use psychic, right? (Not actually owning them, I can't verify that.) Is the word only there because that's what the fansubs said? Doceirias 21:44, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It most likely is due to the fansubs. If you think it's not an accurate discription of what Itsuki and his organization are, then you can change it (though I bet there'll be constant revert edits to change it back to esper due to popular opinion, much like the Raising/Raging Heart of the Nanoha series).--十八 12:13, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fansubs and fan translations all use esper. The English adaption also uses esper. I think it's just common practice in the translations.Sbloemeke 13:39, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The word could indeed be translated as psychic, but esper (ESPer) is what fans seem to prefer and is more descriptive of what Itsuki does anyways. The official english translation as per the R1 DVD anime release is "esper". Amusingly, the first episode of the ASOSBrigade videos had "psychic" in the dialogue but this was changed (through subtitles). The confusion lay in that "esper" is not a real word in many dictionaries, so does one go with "psychic" which is a dictionary word, or "esper" which is more geared towards the scifi community but may not be recognized as a proper english (American) word. In this particular case, the decision was made to give a nod to the sf fans and keep it as "esper".Lord Richard 02:37, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Esper 

message: Haruhi Theater (Act 1 & Act 2) is not mentioned in any of the Haruhi articles, and the anime article doesn't mention the recent promotional online videos for the second season. Did this group decide not to include these things (weren't they note-worthy enough?), or were you simply not aware of them? I've been hesitant about editing the articles because of my lack of knowledge (I haven't read Theater and I've only seen blog posts about the videos), but I can do some research on these if I have the time. Is that okay? focoma 16:49, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I know of one promotional live-action video for the second season, but are there more? And what exactly is Haruhi Theater?--十八 20:40, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: They are side stories written by the author. They are 75% translated at Baka-Tsuki, however, I had not heard of them before then. They are also incomplete, like the series. I don't know if they are notable or not.Sbloemeke 00:55, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: They are uncollected short stories that ran in Sneaker, apparently. According to the Japanese wikipedia. Doceirias 01:51, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

text: Oops, sorry. Yes, there was only one promotional video for season two. I got confused by the YouTube videos, which were simply parts of one whole video. focoma 04:43, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've heard of the Haruhi Theater Acts from it being mentioned at the Baka-Tsuki site. Although, we can't use that site as a legitimate source (only an External Link I suppose). The HTAs should be mentioned in the Haruhi Franchise section, possibly under the novels?, so you can go ahead and add it in if you haven't already. So far I haven't heard of any promo vids yet but I'll check the Tube. We can add this stuff in as we come across it. Sometimes it's a bit late for us to take notice so we hope that other editors who already seen it can put the stuff in if we haven't already.Fox816 00:26, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We can't use that site at all. Ever. Frankly, regardless of legal issues, their translations are criminally bad and should be avoided at all costs. Doceirias 00:34, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The site cannot be used as a source. However, it is a good site to read the story and work on plot details here, quoting the originals as sources.Sbloemeke 11:06, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Haruhi Theater and Season 2 Promotional Videos

message: Just a guess on my part, but for information on Haruhi Season 2, I'd really consider watching Lucky Star 24 this Sunday. From past Kyoto animations, they tend to do some announcement in the "Next Episode" segment. Since I do not think they'll want to plan for next fall (Hopefully next winter, for that means Clannad will be a nice long series), I can only think of one announcement: Haruhi. Haruhi Season 2 in my opinion will have its first screen shots in LS 24. Just be on the lookout. Sbloemeke 01:47, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not so sure, but I won't dismiss the possibility considering what happened at the end of Kanon last March with the Clannad announcement. But that was when we didn't even know KyoAni was going to be doing a Clannad anime, and we already know the second season has been confirmed for Haruhi. In that case, they may in fact make an annoucement for the next season of Full Metal Panic! considering that just a couple of episodes ago there was a conversation between Kagami and Konata about when the next FMP! anime would be produced. In any case, we'll know in five days.--十八 04:18, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lucky Star 24: 

message: I'm not so sure if the redirect to the list is the best idea. It might be better off redirecting The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya to the anime version instead, like the IP on the list page said. - Penwhale | Blast him / Follow his steps 13:41, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I suppose that makes more sense since the anime is more well known and licensed in English to boot. I'll change it now and add a dablink at the top of The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya (anime).--十八 21:32, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dablink 

message: === WP:FICT has been revised ===
WP:FICT, the notability guideline for elements within a work of fiction (characters, places, elements, etc) has a new proposal/revision that is now live  Everyone is encouraged to leave feedback on the talk page. Ned Scott 22:05, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Guidelines

message: WP:FICT, the notability guideline for elements within a work of fiction (characters, places, elements, etc) has a new proposal/revision that is now live  Everyone is encouraged to leave feedback on the talk page. Ned Scott 22:05, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  WP:FICT has been revised 

message: There is a proposal to split WP:EPISODE into a more general notability guideline, Wikipedia:Notability (serial works), and make the rest of WP:EPISODE just a MOS guideline. Please join in at WT:EPISODE#Proposed split of EPISODE and/or Wikipedia talk:Notability (serial works). -- Ned Scott 22:05, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia:Notability (serial works) 

message: I've recently created :Category:Comedy-drama anime and manga. Would it be okay to add the series to said category?--Nohansen (talk) 21:19, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No. It is not a drama. Very, very few things really have the balance of drama and comedy worth adding to your new category, and there are already a bunch of things in there that shouldn't be. One Piece, for instance. Doceirias (talk) 22:25, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Haruhi Suzumiya (anime) genres 

message: I have to say I'm a bit shocked not seeing any mention whatever in any article to the fan project The Genderbending of Haruki Suzumiya. This being massively popular online. Is this an omission by intent? 217.132.55.202 (talk) 21:03, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Doujin projects are considered not notable...barring mainstream media coverage. If the creators were sued for copyright infringement, it might warrant a mention, but otherwise... Doceirias (talk) 22:30, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Or if an anime/OVA is made from it. ;) --十八 05:41, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suzumiya Haruhi no Seitenkan