Talk:Roman Catholic Diocese of Galway, Kilmacduagh and Kilfenora

message: The article makes it clear that Kilfenora is not part of the diocese. That diocese is still extant. The bishop of Galway, Kilmacduagh merely administrates the diocese. Strictly speaking, the Pope is the bishop of Kilfenora. As all this would take too long to communicate in an article name, it's best that the name should simply be Roman Catholic Diocese of Galway and Kilmacduagh. Let us not introduce factual inaccuracies into the name. The diocese's own website makes this clear "In 1883, Thomas Carr was appointed bishop, the first to be appointed with the title of Bishop of Galway & Kilmacduagh and Apostolic Administrator of Kilfenora.". It is unfortunate that it also uses the shorthand, though inaccurate title of "Diocese of Galway, Kilmacduagh and Kilfenora" in it's logo. The website itself is called www.galwaydiocese.ie, which is also incorrect. So really the website just uses a series of shorthand descriptors, depending on location and context. Laurel Lodged (talk) 12:23, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The article title should remain as the Roman Catholic Diocese of Galway, Kilmacduagh and Kilfenora. The ordinary of the diocese is titled the "Bishop of Galway and Kilmacduagh and Apostolic Administrator of Kilfenora". The official website calls it the "Diocese of Galway, Kilmacduagh and Kilfenora", as does A New History of Ireland, volume 9, page 386 (). Wikipedia articles should be based on reliable, published sources and Wikipedians should never interpret the content of primary sources for themselves. The official website of the diocese is a primary source and so Wikipedia should go by that source. Scrivener-uki (talk) 16:12, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: But the problem is that the primary source offers both options for the name. We are forced, therefore, to choose. To take your citation of a section of the primary source to its logical conclusion, the article name should be "Roman Catholic of Diocese of Galway and Kilmacduagh and the Apostolic Administratorship of Kilfenora". Pretty unwieldy you'd have to admit. Not to mention that it requires use of a neologism. Laurel Lodged (talk) 18:15, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Where does the primary source offers both options? All I see on the diocese's official website home page is that its name in English as "Diocese of Galway, Kilmacduagh and Kilfenora" and in Gaelic as "Deoise Ghaillimh, Chill Mhic Dhuach agus Finaborensis". But since this is the English Wikipedia then the English name is used for the article title.  As you'll know, the "Diocese of Kilmacduagh" was joined to the "Diocese of Galway" by Pope Leo XIII in 1883 and he made the bishop "Apostolic Administrator of Kilfenora in perpetuum". So although since then Kilfenora has been under the authority of an apostolic administrator, it is still a diocese. It has not been downgraded to anything else; unless someone can prove it otherwise with reliable source(s). And so technically, this Episcopal see could maybe actually the "Dioceses of Galway, Kilmacduagh and Kilfenora" (plural). But we can debate this all we want, the fact is that Wikipedia goes by verifiable published sources, and if the primary source wants to call it the "Diocese of Galway, Kilmacduagh and Kilfenora" then we'll have to go by that title. If anyone has a problem with its title then they should take it up with the official source. Scrivener-uki (talk) 15:55, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that there are two dioceses involved. That's why it's wrong to subsume one into the other; that it to deny Kilfenora its independent existence. Anyway, you asked for the other reference from the primary source - here it is. See where the Episcopal Succession is "Bishops of Galway & Kilmacduagh and Apostolic Administrators of Kilfenora". Laurel Lodged (talk) 20:43, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The primary source you quoted about Episcopal Succession "here it is" is the same reference in my last post, and that reference has the "Diocese of Galway, Kilmacduagh & Kilfenora (1883-present)". It seems you are selecting the bit about the ordinary's titles, but conveniently ignore the diocese's title, and just as igoring it in the home page. Scrivener-uki (talk) 21:49, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Is there a hair's breath of difference between the title of the ordinary and that of the diocese? You mention the home page; what about the title of the website itself - Galwaydiocese.ie So the same primary source offers 3 different titles. Which brings me back to my point that we are forced to choose. Laurel Lodged (talk) 20:55, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: We are not forced to choose anything. The primary source has decided to call it "Diocese of Galway, Kilmacduagh and Kilfenora" and so will have to go by that title. The ordinary's titles is anomaly in which he has the title bishop of two of them and apostolic administrator of the third. As for the primary source's website name Galwaydiocese.ie, the "Roman Catholic Diocese of Ardagh and Clonmacnois" has ardaghdiocese.com for its website name, but that doesn't mean we are forced to choose between that article's title remaining as it is or changed to "Roman Catholic Diocese of Ardagh". It is obvious we disagree with this issue and suggest it be taken to a wider discussion page, I suggest Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ireland. Scrivener-uki (talk) 18:29, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Diocese of Galway, Kilmacduagh 

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