Talk:Mystic chord

message: diminished octave --> augmented seventh
Thanks for correcting this, Andeeze2003.  I meant "augmented seventh", but somehow got my thinking on this reversed and wrongly typed "diminished octave". M.J.E. (talk) 10:21, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oops. 

message: By far the most common English usage appears to be "mystic" rather than "Prometheus" or "Promethean" chord and the article is currently title appropriately ("mystic"). Hyacinth (talk) 19:09, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Title: Mystic vs Prometheus

message: I think this page needs a Midi rendition of the chord. I could provide it, but I haven't figured out how to make an upload and link to it in the article. Rikypedia (talk) 01:39, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There is an .ogg. Hyacinth (talk) 02:16, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It didn't show up when I left my note here. It does now. Thanks. Rikypedia (talk) 14:37, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Media: Midi rendition

message: One interesting quality of the chord is that it contains various kinds of quartal triads - but certainly not all possible ones, unless octave doublings of certain notes are used, or various inversions of the chord adopted, or enharmonic notation used for some notes, which may not be justifiable harmonically.  Here are the quartal triads found directly in the chord in its pure form.  Constituent notes of each triad are named from the bass upwards, and the qualities of the 4ths also named upwards:
* C F# Bb - augmented, diminished 4ths
* F# Bb E - diminished, augmented 4ths
* Bb E A - augmented, perfect 4ths
* E A D - perfect, perfect 4ths
Quartal triads not represented here are:
* Augmented - augmented (which would result in an augmented seventh, such as C - B#)
* Diminished - diminished (which would effectively be an augmented triad)
* Diminished - perfect (this would be a minor triad in first inversion with the lowest note enharmonically notated differently from usual triad notation)
* Perfect - diminished (major triad in second inversion with the top note enharmonically notated)
* Perfect - augmented.
If the notes of the Mystic chord are rearranged or inverted so that they are no longer spaced all in fourths, then it is possible to derive most of these other quartal triads.
All four kinds of tertian triad can be found in the Mystic chord, although, because of its spacing in fourths, the tertian triads will not be in close spacing or not necessarily in root position.  They are as follows:
* major (D, F#, A)
* minor (A, C, E)
* augmented (D, F#, Bb)
* diminished (F#, A, C)
In Scriabin's usage of harmonies derived from the Mystic chord, quartal harmonies tend to result more naturally than tertian ones.  The presence of the various tertian triads is not an important fact in Scriabin's harmonic language.
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I removed the above because Wikipedia:NOT#TEXT and recent work which emphasizes the centric and non-quartal quality of Scriabin's work. Hyacinth (talk) 22:29, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed: Qualities

message: I don't think this chord is mystic or whatever...
If we group the notes as triads :
C, F♯, B♭, E, A, D
becomes
B♭ D F♯ A C E
It's an eleventh chord with augmented fifth and fourth. We can found it on the third degree of the minor melodic scale.
Here it's a G minor melodic scale.
Example in A minor, We have A B C D E F G# (the 7th degree is major).
With the melodic alteration, the F (6th degree) is augmented too.
The third degree chord is C E G# B D F#. It's also a eleventh chord with augmented fifth and fourth.
It's uncommon, but not mystic. What do you think ?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Boris Christ (talk • contribs) 14:22, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, that doesn't really matter. It's the "Mystic" chord because it is said to be. I mean, in reality, it may be no more mystic than C minor, but it had a sort of mystical significance to Scriabin so there you go. Tah Dah ... Mystic Chord! Gingermint (talk) 00:28, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

text: Oh, and interesting dissection of the chord. Thanks! Gingermint (talk) 00:28, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  not a "mystic" chord 

message: I think there could be more of an analysis of the chord and maybe a little less shying away from musical jargon. Gingermint (talk) 00:28, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Anything specific in mind? Hyacinth (talk) 14:09, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: More Technical

message: The scale the chord implies is called a Lydian b7 in jazz parlance - a C major with an F# instead of an F and a Bb instead of a B.  This is also informally called the Cartoon Scale because of its use in animation dating back many decades, but, perhaps most recognizably, used in theme  from The Simpsons by Danny Elfman.  Starting on the F# it is also known as the Altered Scale, as it can be used with an F#7 and includes all the altered tensions - b9, #9, #11, b13. Contrary to what the article implies, it is not associated with the classic octatonic (symmetric diminished) scale of alternating half and whole steps as you would not have a C, D, and E in the same octatonic scale.
NoMinorChords (talk) 22:59, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The article cites a source for the claim that the octatonic scale is associated with the chord. Hyacinth (talk) 16:08, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Lydian dominant scale|Lydian b7 Scale]]

message: *Nicolas Slonimsky compares the synthetic chord to a "typical terminal" chord of jazz, rag-time, and rock, the major tonic chord with an added sixth and ninth (if the root is C: C, G, E, A, D), and to Debussy's post-Wagnerian "enhanced" dominant seventh chords. If one moves the F up to G and the A up to B (already present), one is left with a familiar dominant ninth chord.
The above was removed as uncited and summarized elsewhere. Hyacinth (talk) 19:11, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed: Uncited

message: *Jonny Greenwood's piece Popcorn Superhet Receiver, written for string orchestra in 2005, opens on a mystic chord with an added G natural.
The above was removed as containing an added tone. Hyacinth (talk) 22:47, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed: Impure

message: Apologies, I'm not an avid Wikipedian. I just wanted to note that, as far as I can tell, the chord labeled vii in the Duke Ellington sheet music should have the roman numeral vi instead; key of D, spelt B F# D.
If someone wants to fight the corner of it being a rootless vii minor eleventh flat nine in third inversion, I guess you could do that, but I think calling it a regular old B minor and labelling it vi makes more sense. With that in mind, the V/vii chord would then instead be V/vi.
This preview page of the real book: https://www.sheetmusicdirect.com/se/ID_No/60503/Product.aspx seems to fit my analysis - that is, the progression is D - F#7 - Bm... and thus I - V/vi - vi. I - V/vii - vii would instead be D - G# - C#m...
Cheers 82.15.110.8 (talk) 10:38, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Duke Ellington Sheet Music Error? 

message: The literal sixth of this spelling will be F#-Dx (double sharp). So, not sure this particular inclusion is so helpful. I don’t wish to do a hasty and inelegant edit, but I’m probably not the only one who’ll catch that. J Civil 19:07, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  “French sixth”