Talk:Monosodium glutamate/Archive 1

message: The following information should be added. I'm not willing to be responsible for the maintanence, as this is out of my main area, but the information seems important.
meatclerk 08:59, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: New Material

message: *It was first discovered and patented by Japanese researcher Kikunae Ikeda in 1907.
*MSG was first isolated in 1908 by Kikune Ikeda of the Tokyo Imperial University, who successfully crystallized the substance out of seaweed broth.
Don't these two statements conflict? How could he patent it before he had isolated it? Which is the correct statement?
[maestro] 07:46, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: This appears to have been resolved by an edit by 65.96.126.20 on 26 Feb 2005 --69.214.227.51 04:35, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradictory statements 

message: this flavor is considered basic in Japanese and Chinese cooking...not discussed as much in Western cuisine...
: I really doubt that MSG products are more common in Japan and China than elsewhere on Earth. It gives a mistaken impression that MSG included products are few to scarce in the west. It's also completely  wrong in saying that it is basic in Japanese and Chinese cooking. Traditional Japanese and Chinese cooking goes way before MSG, and modern J & C couisine by default *don't* touch MSG. Mass-marketed non-perishable foods such as instant noodle being a different case, however this is true for Western foods such as almost all of Campbell's canned soups as well as Doritos chips. MSG were extracted and mass marketed only in recent decades. Far from being basic  --69.214.227.51 03:10, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The part where it doesn't specify country or year where this is supposedly the case makes this passage sound very much like an urban legend.  Even if it weren't, the lack of detail gives this statement very little value. Let's not feed the rumor mills. --69.214.227.51 03:10, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

text: I could find no evidence that either of these claims are correct.  BryanD 18:01, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lines that were removed 

message: There's an interesting tidbit about a mouse experiment that may shed light on the origin of the whole MSG scare over at the Japanese version of the article. I will add it later if no-one else does beforehand. Short one-liner summary for now: initial experiments with mice seemed to indicate MSG can have adverse health effects on infants, however later studies showed that MSG did not have such an effect for humans. --69.214.227.51 03:10, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  MSG experiment with mice 

message: The msgfree site linked on the external links section:  is of questionable value. It provides very little information that contain no sources and references.
Removing link.
Outdated --meatclerk 18:27, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link to msgfree 

message: REFERENCES
1. Lucas, D.R. and Newhouse, J. P. The toxic effect of sodium-L-glutamate on the inner layers of the retina. AMA Arch Ophthalmol 58: 193-201, 1957.
2. Potts, A.M., Modrell, R.W., and Kingsbury, C. Permanent fractionation of the electroretinogram by sodium glutamate. Am J Ophthalmol 50: 900-907, 1960.
3. Freedman, J.K., and Potts, A.M. Repression of glutaminase I in the rat retina by administration of sodium L-glutamate. Invest Ophthalmol 1: 118-121, 1962.
4. Freedman, J.K., and Potts, A.M. Repression of glutaminase I in rat retina by administration of sodium L-glutamate. Invest Ophthal 2: 252, 1963.
5. Hamatsu, T. Experimental studies on the effect of sodium iodate and sodium L-glutamate on ERG and histological structure of retina in adult rabbits. Acta Soc Ophthalmol Jpn 68: 1621-1636, 1964. (Abstract)
6. Hansson, H.A. Ultrastructure studies on long-term effects of MSG on rat retina. Virchows Arch [Zellpathol] 6: 1, 1970.
7. Cohen, A.I. An electron microscopic study of the modification by monosodium glutamate of the retinas of normal and "rodless" mice. Am J Anat 120: 319-356, 1967.
8. Olney, J.W. Glutamate-induced retinal degeneration in neonatal mice. Electron-microscopy of the acutely evolving lesion. J Neuropathol Exp Neurol 28: 455-474, 1969.
9. Olney, J.W. Brain lesions, obesity, and other disturbances in mice treated with monosodium glutamate. Science 164: 719-721, 1969.
10. Olney, J.W., and Sharpe, L.G. Brain lesions in an infant rhesus monkey treated with monosodium glutamate. Science 166: 386-388, 1969.
11. Snapir, N., Robinzon, B., and Perek, M. Brain damage in the male domestic fowl treated with monosodium glutamate. Poult Sci 50: 1511-1514, 1971.
12. Perez, V.J. and Olney, J.W. Accumulation of glutamic acid in the arcuate nucleus of the hypothalamus of the infant mouse following subcutaneous administration of monosodium glutamate. J Neurochem 19: 1777-1782, 1972.
13. Arees, E.A., and Mayer, J. Monosodium glutamate-induced brain lesions in mice. Presented at the 47th Annual Meeting of American Association of Neuropathologists, Puerto Rico, June 25-27, 1971. J Neuropath Exp Neurol 31: 181, 1972. (Abstract)
14. Everly, J.L. Light microscopy examination of monosodium glutamate induced lesions in the brain of fetal and neonatal rats. Anat Rec 169: 312, 1971.
15. Olney, J.W. Glutamate-induced neuronal necrosis in the infant mouse hypothalamus. J Neuropathol Exp Neurol 30: 75-90, 1971.
16. Takasaki, Y. Studies on brain lesion by administration of monosodium L-glutamate to mice. I. Brain lesions in infant mice caused by administration of monosodium L-glutamate. Toxicology 9: 293-305, 1978.
17. Holzwarth-McBride, M.A., Hurst, E.M., and Knigge, K.M. Monosodium glutamate induced lesions of the arcuate nucleus. I. Endocrine deficiency and ultrastructure of the median eminence. Anat Rec 186: 185-196, 1976.
18. Holzwarth-McBride, M.A., Sladek, J.R., and Knigge, K.M. Monosodium glutamate induced lesions of the arcuate nucleus. II Fluorescence histochemistry of catecholamines. Anat Rec 186: 197-205, 1976.
19. Burde, R.M., Schainker, B., and Kayes, J. Acute effect of oral and subcutaneous administration of monosodium glutamate on the arcuate nucleus of the hypothalamus in mice and rats. Nature (Lond) 233: 58-60, 1971.
20. Olney, J.W. Sharpe, L.G., Feigin, R.D. Glutamate-induced brain damage in infant primates. J Neuropathol Exp Neurol 31: 464-488, 1972.
21. Abraham, R., Doughtery, W., Goldberg, L., and Coulston, F. The response of the hypothalamus to high doses of monosodium glutamate in mice and monkeys: cytochemistry and ultrastructural study of lysosomal changes. Exp Mol Pathol 15: 43-60, 1971.
22. Burde, R.M., Schainker, B., and Kayes, J. Monosodium glutamate: necrosis of hypothalamic neurons in infant rats and mice following either oral or subcutaneous administration. J Neuropathol Exp Neurol 31: 181, 1972.
23. Robinzon, B., Snapir, N., and Perek, M. Age dependent sensitivity to monosodium glutamate inducing brain damage in the chicken. Poult Sci 53: 1539-1942, 1974.
24. Tafelski, T.J. Effects of monosodium glutamate on the neuroendocrine axis of the hamster. Anat Rec 184: 543-544, 1976.
: Tafelski injects pregnant hamsters with an MSG dose of 8mg/gm. Average Western intake is about 3mg/person/day (in Japan they eat far more). Therefore this is a relative dosage of approximately 140,000 times the average human intake of MSG. Tafelski et al. are attempting to induce formative defects through massive doses in this experiement, not determine in vivo effects at ordinary concentration. See also: iron, vitamin D for nutrients with this effect.
25. Inouye, M. and Murakami, U. Brain lesions and obesity in mouse offspring caused by maternal administration of monosodium glutamate during pregnancy. Congenital Anomalies 14: 77-83, 1974.
26. Olney, J.W., Rhee, V. and DeGubareff, T. Neurotoxic effects of glutamate on mouse area postrema. Brain Research 120: 151-157, 1977.
27. Olney, J.W., Ho, O.L. Brain damage in infant mice following oral intake of glutamate, aspartate or cystine. Nature (Lond) 227: 609-611, 1970.
28. Lemkey-Johnston, N., and Reynolds, W.A. Incidence and extent of brain lesions in mice following ingestion of monosodium glutamate (MSG). Anat Rec 172: 354, 1972.
29. Lemkey-Johnston, N., and Reynolds, W.A. Nature and extent of brain lesions in mice related to ingestion of monosodium glutamate: a light and electron microscope study. J Neuropath Exp Neurol 33: 74-97, 1974.
30. Kenney, RA and Tidball, CS Human susceptibility to oral monosodium L-glutamate. Am J Clin Nutr. 25:140-146, 1972.
31. Frieder, B, and Grimm, VE. Prenatal monosodium glutamate (MSG) treatment given through the mother's diet causes behavioral deficits in rat offspring. Intern J Neurosci. 23:117-126,1984.
32. Gao, J, Wu, J, Zhao, XN, Zhang, WN, Zhang, YY, Zhang, ZX. [Transplacental neurotoxic effects of monosodium glutamate on structures and functions of specific brain areas of filial mice.] Sheng Li Hsueh Pao Acta Physiologica Sinica. 46:44-51,1994.
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The neonatal treatment of rats with monosodium glutamate induces morphological changes in the subfornical organ.
Anat Histol Embryol. 2004 Oct;33(5):273-7. 
Consequences of monosodium glutamate or goldthioglucose arcuate nucleus lesions on ethanol-induced locomotion.
Drug Alcohol Depend. 2002 Oct 1;68(2):189-94. 
MSG lesions decrease body mass of suckling-age rats by attenuating circadian decreases of energy expenditure.
Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2002 Sep;283(3):E604-11. 
Postnatal glutamate-induced central nervous system lesions alter periodontal disease susceptibility in adult Wistar rats.
J Clin Periodontol. 2001 Oct;28(10):904-9. 
Seasonal neuroendocrine rhythms in the male Siberian hamster persist after monosodium glutamate-induced lesions of the arcuate nucleus in the neonatal period.
J Neuroendocrinol. 1998 Sep;10(9):701-12. 
Neurotoxic lesions induced by monosodium glutamate result in increased adenopituitary proopiomelanocortin gene expression and decreased corticosterone clearance in rats.
Neuroendocrinology. 1998 Jun;67(6):412-20. 
Effects of monosodium glutamate on blood neutrophils phagocytic activity and phagocytic response in mice.
Rom J Physiol. 1997 Jan-Dec;34(1-4):95-101. 
Decrease of (+)-3-[125I]MK-801 binding to NMDA brain receptors revealed at puberty in rats treated neonatally with monosodium glutamate.
Brain Res Dev Brain Res. 1996 Sep 2;95(2):149-56. 
Neurotoxic effects of neonatal injections of monosodium L-glutamate (L-MSG) on the retinal ganglion cell layer of the golden hamster: anatomical and functional consequences on the circadian system.
J Comp Neurol. 1993 Dec 1;338(1):67-82. 
Depletion of hypothalamic growth hormone-releasing hormone by neonatal monosodium glutamate treatment reveals an inhibitory effect of betamethasone on growth hormone secretion in adult rats.
Neuroendocrinology. 1990 Jan;51(1):85-92. 
Neurotransmitters, neuropeptides and binding sites in the rat mediobasal hypothalamus: effects of monosodium glutamate (MSG) lesions.
Exp Brain Res. 1989;76(2):343-68. 
Neonatal treatment with monosodium glutamate increases plasma corticosterone in the rat.
Neuroendocrinology. 1988 Dec;48(6):645-9.
Inflammatory edema induced by carrageenin in monosodium glutamate-treated rats.
Braz J Med Biol Res. 1988;21(4):837-9. 
Hypoplastic heart induced by neonatal hypothalamic lesions in mice.
J Mol Cell Cardiol. 1987 Aug;19(8):741-9.
Evidence for reorganization of the neuroendocrine centres regulating pulsatile LH secretion in rats receiving neonatal monosodium-L-glutamate treatment.
J Endocrinol. 1987 May;113(2):261-9. 
Neurotoxin effects on oxytocin, vasopressin and somatostatin in discrete rat brain areas.
Peptides. 1986 Sep-Oct;7(5):749-53.
"Monosodium-L-Glutamate (MSG) produces lesions to monoaminergic and peptidergic neurons in several brain areas."
Alterations in insulin and glucagon secretion by monosodium glutamate lesions of the hypothalamic arcuate nucleus.
Endocr Res. 1985;11(3-4):145-55
Reduction of pituitary GnRH receptors in immature rats treated with monosodium glutamate.
Am J Physiol. 1985 Jan;248(1 Pt 1):E126-31.
Pyroglutamate kinetics and neurotoxicity studies in mice.
Toxicol Lett. 1983 May;16(3-4):225-9. 
Evidence that reduced growth hormone secretion observed in monosodium glutamate-treated rats is the result of a deficiency in growth hormone-releasing factor.
Endocrinology. 1982 Feb;110(2):540-50.
Monosodium glutamate-induced lesions in the rat cingulate cortex.
Cell Tissue Res. 1981;220(2):239-50. 
Brain lesions and short-term endocrine effects of monosodium L-glutamate in goldfish, Carassius auratus.
Cell Tissue Res. 1980;212(3):429-42
Direct evidence that the arcuate nucleus-median eminence tuberoinfundibular system is not of primary importance in the feedback regulation of luteinizing hormone and follicle-stimulating hormone secretion in the castrated rat.
Endocrinology. 1978 Jul;103(1):170-5. 
" Adult rats which have received monosodium-L-glutamate (MSG, 4 mg/g BW) on alternate days for the first 10 days of life manifest central nervous system lesions largely restricted to the retina and the arcuate nucleus of the hypothalamus in which nearly 90% of the perikarya are destroyed, leaving axons in passage intact. In animals so treated, concentrations of dopamine within the arcuate nucleus and median eminence of the hypothalamus are reduced 52% and 57%, respectively, in males and 45% and 61% in females . . ."
Studies on brain lesion by administration of monosodium L-glutamate to mice. I. Brain lesions in infant mice caused by administration of monosodium L-glutamate.
Toxicology. 1978 Apr;9(4):293-305. 
Late endocrine effects of administering monosodium glutamate to neonatal rats.
Neuroendocrinology. 1978;26(4):220-8.
Monosodium glutamate induced lesions of the arcurate nucleus. II. Fluorescence histochemistry of catecholamines.
Anat Rec. 1976 Oct;186(2):197-205
Glial changes in the progress of a chemical lesion. An electron microscopic study.
J Comp Neurol. 1976 Jun 15;167(4):481-501. 
" The response of non-neuronal cells in the brain to monosodium glutamate (MSG) was studied in the neonatal mouse brain. Neurons rapidly degenerate in this chemically-induced lesion, and the glia reflect and respond to their early pyknosis and death. Astrocytic glia exhibit the most profound responses in the form of degenerative nuclear and cytoplasmic changes within 15 to 20 minutes after ingestion of MSG. After 6 to 12 hours, a large glial cell population, containing neuronal and synaptic debris, can be seen. Recovery of severely damaged astrocytes is unlikely."
Monosodium L-glutamate-induced convulsions: temporary alteration in blood-brain barrier permeability to plasma proteins.
Environ Physiol Biochem. 1975;5(6):389-95
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1 Garattini, S.  Evaluation of the neurotoxic effects of glutam-
ic acid.  In: Nutrition and the Brain  Vol 4, Wurtman, R.J. Ed. 
New York: Raven Press, 1979.
2 Lynch, J.F., Jr., Lewis, L.M., and Adkins, J.S. (Division of 
Nutrition, FDA, Washington, D.C. 20204). Monosodium 
glutamate-induced hyperglycemia in weanling rats. J S Fed Proc 31: 
1477, 1971.
3 Kenney, R.A. and Tidball, C.S.  Human susceptibility to oral 
monosodium L-glutamate.  Am J Clin Nutr 25: 140-146, 1972.
4 Lucas, D.R. and Newhouse, J. P. The toxic effect of sodium-L-
glutamate on the inner layers of the retina. AMA Arch Ophthalmol 
58: 193-201, 1957.
5 Himwich, H.E., Wolff, K., Hunsicker, A.L. and Himwich, W.A. 
Some behavioral effects associated with feeding sodium glutamate 
to patients with psychiatric disorders. J Nerv & Mental Disease 
121: 40-49, 1955.
6 Pond, E.A., and Pond, M.H. Glutamic acid and its salts in 
petit mal epilepsy. J Mental Sci 97: 663, 1951.
7 Walshe, J.M. The effect of glutamic acid on the coma of 
hepatic failure. Lancet 1: 1075, 1953.
8 Alexander, R.W., Berman, E, and Balfour, D.C. Jr. Relationship 
of glutamic acid and blood ammonia to hepatic coma. 
Gastroenterology 29: 711-718, 1955.
9 Arees, E., Sandrew, B., and Mayer, J. MSG-induced optic 
pathway lesions in infant mice following subcutaneous injection. 
Fed Proc 30: 521, 1971.
10 Olney, J.W. Brain lesions, obesity, and other disturbances in 
mice treated with monosodium glutamate. Science 164: 719-721, 
1969.
11 Olney, J.W., and Sharpe, L.G. Brain lesions in an infant 
rhesus monkey treated with monosodium glutamate. Science 166: 386-
388, 1969.
12 Snapir, N., Robinzon, B., and Perek, M. Brain damage in the 
male domestic fowl treated with monosodium glutamate. Poult Sci 
50: 1511-1514, 1971.
13 Perez, V.J. and Olney, J.W. Accumulation of glutamic acid in 
the arcuate nucleus of the hypothalamus of the infant mouse 
following subcutaneous administration of monosodium glutamate. J 
Neurochem 19: 1777-1782, 1972.
14 Arees, E.A., and Mayer, J. Monosodium glutamate-induced brain 
lesions: electron microscopic examination. Science 170: 549-550, 
1970.
15 Arees, E.A., and Mayer, J. Monosodium glutamate-induced brain 
lesions in mice. Presented at the 47th Annual Meeting of American 
Association of Neuropathologists, Puerto Rico, June 25-27, 1971. J 
Neuropath Exp Neurol 31: 181, 1972. (Abstract)
16 Everly, J.L. Light microscopy examination of monosodium 
glutamate induced lesions in the brain of fetal and neonatal rats. 
Anat Rec 169: 312, 1971.
17 Olney, J.W. Glutamate-induced neuronal necrosis in the infant 
mouse hypothalamus. J Neuropathol Exp Neurol 30: 75-90, 1971.
18 Takasaki, Y. Studies on brain lesion by administration of 
monosodium L-glutamate to mice.  I.  Brain lesions in infant mice 
caused by administration of monosodium L-glutamate. Toxicology 9: 
293-305, 1978.
19 Holzwarth-McBride, M.A., Hurst, E.M., and Knigge, K.M. 
Monosodium glutamate induced lesions of the arcuate nucleus. I. 
Endocrine deficiency and ultrastructure of the median eminence. 
Anat Rec 186: 185-196, 1976.
20 Holzwarth-McBride, M.A., Sladek, J.R., and Knigge, K.M. 
Monosodium glutamate induced lesions of the arcuate nucleus. II 
Fluorescence histochemistry of catecholamines. Anat Rec 186: 197-
205, 1976.
21 Paull, W.K., and Lechan, R. The median eminence of mice with a 
MSG induced arcuate lesion. Anat Rec 180: 436, 1974.
22 Burde, R.M., Schainker, B., and Kayes, J.  Acute effect of 
oral and subcutaneous administration of monosodium glutamate on 
the arcuate nucleus of the hypothalamus in mice and rats.  Nature 
(Lond) 233: 58-60, 1971.
23 Olney, J.W. Sharpe, L.G., Feigin, R.D.  Glutamate-induced 
brain damage in infant primates. J Neuropathol Exp Neurol 31: 464-
488, 1972.
24 Burde, R.M., Schainker, B., and Kayes, J. Monosodium gluta-
mate: necrosis of hypothalamic neurons in infant rats and mice 
following either oral or subcutaneous administration. J Neuropat-
hol Exp Neurol 31: 181, 1972.
25 Robinzon, B., Snapir, N., and Perek, M. Age dependent sensi-
tivity to monosodium glutamate inducing brain damage in the 
chicken. Poult Sci 53: 1539-1942, 1974.
26 Tafelski, T.J. Effects of monosodium glutamate on the neuro-
endocrine axis of the hamster. Anat Rec 184: 543-544, 1976.
27 Inouye, M. and Murakami, U. Brain lesions and obesity in mouse 
offspring caused by maternal administration of monosodium 
glutamate during pregnancy. Congenital Anomalies 14: 77-83, 1974.
28 Olney, J.W., Rhee, V. and DeGubareff, T. Neurotoxic effects of 
glutamate on mouse area postrema. Brain Research 120: 151-157, 
1977.
29 Olney, J.W., Ho, O.L.  Brain damage in infant mice following 
oral intake of glutamate, aspartate or cystine.  Nature (Lond) 
227: 609-611, 1970.
30 Lemkey-Johnston, N., and Reynolds, W.A. Incidence and extent 
of brain lesions in mice following ingestion of monosodium 
glutamate (MSG). Anat Rec 172: 354, 1972.
31 Takasaki, Y. Protective effect of mono- and disaccharides on 
glutamate-induced brain damage in mice. Toxicol Lett 4: 205-210, 
1979.
32 Takasaki, Y. Protective effect of arginine, leucine, and 
preinjection of insulin on glutamate neurotoxicity in mice. 
Toxicol Lett 5: 39-44, 1980.
33 Lemkey-Johnston, N., and Reynolds, W.A. Nature and extent of 
brain lesions in mice related to ingestion of monosodium gluta-
mate: a light and electron microscope study. J Neuropath Exp 
Neurol 33: 74-97, 1974.
34 Olney, J. W. Brain damage and oral intake of certain amino 
acids. In: Transport Phenomena in the Nervous System: 
Physiological and Pathological Aspects Levi, G., Battistin, L., 
and Lajtha, A. Eds. New York: Plenum Press, 1976. 
also Advances in Experimental Medicine and Biology  69: 497-506, 
1976.
35 Nagasawa, H., Yanai R., and Kikuyama, S. Irreversible inhibi-
tion of pituitary prolactin and growth hormone secretion and of 
mammary gland development in mice by monosodium glutamate admin-
istered neonatally. Acta Endocrinol 75: 249-259, 1974.
36 Nemeroff, C.B., Grant, L.D., Bissette, G., Ervin, G.N., 
Harrell, L.E., and Prange, A.J., Jr. Growth, endocrinological and 
behavioral deficits after monosodium L-glutamate in the neonatal 
rat: Possible involvement of arcuate dopamine neuron damage. 
Psychoneuroendocrinology 2: 179-196, 1977.
37 Nemeroff, C.B., Konkol, R.J., Bissette, G., Youngblood, W., 
Martin, J.B., Brazeau, P., Rone, M.S., Prange, A.J. Jr., Breese, 
G.R. and Kizer, J.S. Analysis of the disruption in hypothalamic-
pituitary regulation in rats treated neonatally with monosodium 
glutamate (MSG): Evidence for the involvement of tuberoinfundib-
ular cholinergic and dopaminergic systems in neuroendocrine 
regulation. Endocrinology 101: 613-622, 1977.
38 Pizzi, W.J., Barnhart, J.E., and Fanslow, D.J. Monosodium 
glutamate administration to the newborn reduces reproductive 
ability in female and male mice. Science 196: 452-454, 1977.
39 Tafelski, T.J. and Lamperti, A.A. The effects of a single 
injection of monosodium glutamate on the reproductive neuroendo-
crine axis of the female hamster. Biol Reprod 17: 404-411, 1977.
40 Holzwarth, M.A., and Hurst, E.M. Manifestations of monosodium 
glutamate (MSG) induced lesions of the arcuate nucleus of the 
mouse. Anat Rec 178: 378, 1974.
41 Lynch, J.F. Jr., Lewis, L.M., Hove, E.L., and Adkins, J.S. 
Division of Nutrition, FDA, Washington, D.C. 20204. Effect 
of monosodium L-glutamate on development and reproduction in rats. 
Fed Proc 29: 567Abs, 1970.
42 Bhagavan, H.N., Coursin, D.B., and Stewart, C.N. Monosodium 
glutamate induces convulsive disorders in rats. Nature (London) 
232: 275-276, 1971.
43 Nemeroff, C.B., and Crisley, F.D. Monosodium L-glutamate 
induced convulsions: temporary alteration in blood-brain barrier 
permeability to plasma proteins. Environ Physiol Biochem 5: 389-
395, 1975. 
44 Nemeroff, C.B. Monosodium glutamate-induced neurotoxicity: 
review of the literature and call for further research. In: 
Nutrition & Behavior Miller, S.A., Ed. Philadelphia: The Franklin 
Institute Press, 1981.
45 Olney, J.W., Labruyere, J., and DeGubareff, T. Brain damage in 
mice from voluntary ingestion of glutamate and aspartate. 
Neurobehav  Toxicol 2: 125-129, 1980.
46 Olney, J.W., Ho, O.L., Rhee, V., and DeGubareff, T. Neurotoxic 
effects of glutamate. New Engl J. Med 289: 1374-1375, 1973.
47 Ebert, A.G. Chronic toxicity and teratology studies of 
monosodium L-glutamate and related compounds. Toxicol Appl 
Pharmacol 17: 274, 1970.
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This entire section was added by an annyomous IP with no reason (other than the section header) and looked to be FUD otherwise. (IP was 69.158.99.58) --meatclerk 18:27, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yet more MSG "no sources and references" that are of "questionable value" 

message: My exposure to the MSG debate comes primarily from online discussions with one individual, so I don't have citable sources for these allegations.  But the article seems to me to overstate the weakness of the anti-MSG side of the controversy, by leaving out their most credible allegations.  (Not that the anti-MSG side isn't fairly weak, imo, but the article appears to me to make it sound even weaker than it really is.)
#The exitotoxic effects of MSG are alleged to occur in the hypothalamus, from which the blood-brain barrier is absent.  (It has to be, so that the hypothalamus can monitor the levels of hormones and metabolites for homeostatic regulation.)
#Commercial food-grade MSG is alleged to contain a varying but substantial fraction of the D isomer, which may be responsible for some of the putative ill effects.  Laboratory-grade glutamate, on the other hand, seems likely to be pure L-glutamate.
#It seems implausible that the putative ill effects of MSG would be due to allergy: it's not the right type of substance to elicit an allergic reaction.  Allergic reactions are elicited by peptides after intracellular processing (and thus by the proteins from which the peptides are cleaved), or (as in the case of urushiol from poison ivy) by small molecules that bind to them at any stage of the antigen-presentation process and render them "foreign" to the T cells even though the original peptide is a normal self antigen.  An amino acid normally present in lower quantities seems very unlikely to do this.  Therefore I find it suspicious that the safety testing focused on allergy rather than excitotoxicity or components other than pure L-glutamate.
dsws 00:05, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Re #3: most testing didn't focus on allergy; a few did. There are others that look at excitotoxicity and general ill effects in vivo.
Just a little note; the part about alleged mixing of L/D-forms of glutamate seem a bit dubious, since it is produced by a microorganism and the synthesis is thus specific with respect to only one form. Now, it might be isomerized by later processing, but I would look into that further before putting any of this into an edit. --193.11.220.45 13:11, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Points for the anti-MSG side

message: Shouldn't some mention be made about tortula yeast and hydrolyzed yeast? These indicate MSG has been added to a food (AFAIK) 66.75.49.213 02:47, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: There's a list of about 20 different names for free gluatmic acid containing additives, including hydrolyzed yeast - many of which are in foods labeled "NO MSG" even.  One wonders why the industry is so desperate to hide MSG on the ingredients list if it's so safe and uncontroversial. — ceejayoz talk  23:27, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Alternate label names should probably be mentioned, especially the name that when used can contain a significant percentage of "MSG." In the U.S., the FDA claims that they will not allow a company to put "No MSG" on the label if their are hydrolyzed proteins in the ingredients list.Twoggle 03:46, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Maybe because of consumer hysteria? BTW, normal cooking can quite easily produce MSG. This is one of the reasons requiring hydrolysed proteins to be identified on labels is rather stupid... Nil Einne 04:07, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: There's radiation all around us, but that doesn't mean eating a ball of pure plutonium is safe.  Dosage matters. — ceejayoz talk 15:29, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Yeast

message: I saw an interesting comment on usenet that would be useful to include if it can be backed up... Supposedly the number of people who report problems after eating at Japanese restaurants (we're talking about the US here of course) has always been rather low compared to Chinese restaurants despite the fact Japanese restaurants generally use more MSG then Chinese restaurants. If so, this would give strong credibility to the claim most sufferers are in fact reporting psychosomatic conditions or perhaps conditions caused by some other ingredient common in Chinese restaurants but not Japanese Nil Einne 04:19, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Japanese vs Chinese

message: I removed the sentence claiming that "60% of MSG is broken down to Glutamic Acid".  I am not quite sure where that 60% comes from, though.  Either way, it's not really a breakdown reaction, as MSG is simply the sodium salt of glutamic acid, and the sodium dissociates naturally in solution.  The amount of glutamate that will exist as the glutamate ion, and the amount that will exist as the acid (i.e. the protonated form) simply depend on the pH. --Slashme 07:10, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: MSG "broken down"

message: I think the latest edits by Twoggle are good enough that we can remove the dispute tag.  The article now clearly states both sides of the debate.  --Slashme 07:38, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I added the inaccuracies tag back just for the MSG Intolerance section as the section does not accurately represent either side and is slightly POV ... at least in my opinion. Twoggle 16:44, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well, I'll look at it closer over the weekend. But as an example, it wasn't just the 1993 study that included aspartame, it was all industry (International Technical Glutamate Committee) studies since 1978 through at least 1993. The aspartame was not in the placebo itself, but in the masking drink mix given to the subjects. Since aspartame is ~40% excitotoxic amino acid and the test was on the effects of an excititoxic amino acid, one can see where the criticism comes from. Aside from those studies where aspartame was given to the control group, there are numerous studies with findings on both sides of the issue. I'm just hoping to add a little NPOV science to a couple of short paragraphs. Twoggle 21:49, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed Dispute tag

message: I'm sorry about my reinserting the vandalism.  I shouldn't do RC patrol so late at night.  --Allen 06:57, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  sorry about my screw-up 

message: There seems to be a bit of a contradiction between the "what is MSG?" the "Umami" sections of this article.
From "What Is MSG?"
It does not have a distinct taste of its own, and how it adds flavor to other foods is not fully understood. Many scientists believe that MSG stimulates glutamate receptors in the tongue to augment meat-like flavors.
from "Umami"
MSG triggers the (recently identified) taste buds which are sensitive to umami, one of the five basic tastes.
It seems the "what is MSG?" bit is out of date, talking about glutamate receptors as though it were a speculative hypothesis but umami taste buds have now been identified.
Is it correct to say "It does not have a distinct taste of its own"? I tasted some pure food-grade MSG about a year ago and I think it did have some flavour. It does trigger the umami taste buds, after all.
:It definitely has a flavor on its own.  I just started using it in my cooking, and have sampled it by itself several times.--ragesoss 02:15, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradiction regarding how MSG works 

message: outdated --meatclerk 18:27, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Paragraph needs fixing 

message: Forgive me as this is my first time participating in Wikipedia directly, however reading this article prompted me to create an account and respond.  While I am certainly aware of MSG's negative health effects being someone who is extremely allergic to the substance, I don't think that Dr. John Erb's international conspiracy theory really belongs in a encyclopedic entry.  After reading this paragraph in the 'Natural amino acid section:
"Dr. John Erb has found the actual chemical causing the massive obesity epidemic. He was a research assistant at the University of Waterloo in Ontario, Canada, and spent years working for the government. He made an amazing discovery while going through scientific journals for a book he was writing called "The Slow Poisoning of America". In hundreds of studies around the world, scientists were creating obese mice and rats to use in diet or diabetes test studies. No strain of rat or mice is naturally obese, so the scientists have to create them. They make these morbidly obese creatures by injecting them with MSG when they are first born. The MSG triples the amount of insulin the pancreas creates; causing rats (and humans?) to become obese. They even have a title for the fat rodents they create: "MSG-Treated Rats"."
I was wondering if I was reading an infomercial or something.  I looked up this fellow and found the following: http://health.benabraham.com/html/obesity_from_msg_food_additive.html
Apparantly MSG is the nicotine of the food world according to him, and the corporations, governments and your local grocers are all trying to cover it up.  Its also apparantly linked to every disease known to man, and the good doctor refers to himself in the third person(read the first paragraph of the letter and then read who signed it).  Interesting reading to be certain, but hardly credible.
Just suggesting someone look into that.  If I had more experience here I'd edit it myself, but I would rather not make a mistake.
Reflex-Croft 23:44, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Can we be clear here that MSG does cause obesity in mice, this is not in question. See here [] where MSG is used to fatten mice. Hence, I think it is worth mentioning eg "Though MSG is used in laboratories to engender obesity in mice, there is no evidence it has such effects in humans." or "MSG is used in laboratories to engender obesity in mice and studies have shown similar effects in humans (insert possibly non-existent citation here)"202.139.50.134 04:04, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added a section on mice obesity. Can somone with access to medical journal databases find any studies on whether MSG does or does not cause obesity in humans?LimitedNews 03:00, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The miraculous Dr. John Erb 

message: This article doesn't see the forest from the trees. Glutamate is a neurotransmitter that is known to exhibit excitotoxic properties at large doses, something that is particularly problematic following traumatic brain injury. However oral ingestion of MSG is only likely to affect areas of the brain unprotected by the blood brain barrier - i.e. the hypothalamus and parts of the limbic system. Should MSG be consumed in sufficient quantities to cause lesions on the hypothalamus, this could be expected to result in visible changes to drive control behaviours regulated by this part of the brain, including eating and sexual behaviour. Take a look at the hyper-incidence of msg laced foods, then take a look at the explosion in obesity taking place around the world. High fat foods are one side of the coin, decreased drive control as a result of damage to the hypothalamus the other. The basic information is contained in any graduate level texts on neurophysiology. 
RiverManBlues
:There is no firm evidence to the effect that MSG causes obesity in humans,[but has been linked to increased body mass index] although it has certainly been suggested by researchers. As such, the basic information is not included in any graduate level text on neurophysiology. The main causes of the obesity explosion seem to be an increasingly sedentary lifestyle and increasing intake of energy-dense foods. Whether or not MSG had been introduced, we would still have the obesity explosion. Sakkura 14:28, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: PS: Please add new subjects to the bottom of talk pages in the future. Thanks. Sakkura 14:29, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

text: The link between MSG and obesity is alarming, but I'm far more concerned with the undeniable correlation between a rise in MSG consumption and a rise in the global average temperate.  Though, an inverse correlation also exists between the global average temperature and the number of pirates.  Here's a graph.  I'm not sure which, if any, of these undeniable facts belong in this article, though. 207.148.178.122 (talk) 17:03, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Glutamic acid and the Hypothalamus

message: This article continues to be source of irriataion. I just cleared up another reversal of meaning.
As such, I'm taking real action. Something that cannot be objected to. I've creating a new Sandbox to rewrite the article and remove all objectionable material. I'm doing line be line. This will be a complete rewrite. /rewrite meatclerk 23:12, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Misinformation and a rewrite

message: User:67.188.206.207 left this in the intro to the article - I thought I'd better move it here:
:needs science sidebar about molecular buildup and all that, not just a picture. someone get on this please or leave a note on the talk page (won't load for me)
--Pinnerup 23:54, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Does anyone know what this request is? I don't.meatclerk 04:32, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sidebar

message: After some thought and reflection I am abandoning any work, at the present time, on this article. As such, I am deleting the re-write and removing this article from my watch. I do this with some regret and the full realization that this article is highly erroneous, but a time sink with no hope of real resolution in the near future. As such, should other persons at a future time take a real interest and do real research, the I may return. Until then you may check my personal page for current projects. Respectfully meatclerk 06:12, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Abandon

message: I read (in a 2003 report) that MSG's were used in vaccines.  I don't know about you, but I think that is actually planting an addiction in small children and everyone who gets "regular vaccines"  Tinlv7 00:08, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: chickenpox vaccines. Tell me if you find more. --Striver 22:31, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Foreign body granuloma caused by monosodium glutamate after BCG vaccination.--Striver 22:37, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Addiction, food additives, and vaccination in one conspiracy theory? That has to be a first. Sockatume 22:01, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, ain't it cool? --Striver 22:37, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vaccines 

message: This article uses a mix of different Englishes- some pieces are in British English, some pieces are in American English. In accordance with the Wikipedia Manual of Style, I'd like to do my best to harmonise this article, using the style employed by the first main contributor. If you're still around, FMC, which English did you employ? Liam Plested 19:42, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The earliest version of the article appears to use British English (flavour is used) - American English is then introduced (recognized is used) in a quote from an American source a few edits later. Kierongreen 07:06, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  First main contributor? 

message: 10/21/06 - I believe that the molecular structure shown is incorrect.  According to Lehninger (ed 3) the pKa's of the ionizable groups of free glutamate are 2.19 for the carboxyl group off of the alpha carbon, 4.25 for the carboxyl group in the side chain, and 9.67 for the amino group.  Thus at neutral pH all three ionizable groups will be in a charged state.  This would give the molecule an overall charge of -1 which is balanced by a single sodium ion.  Currently, the picture just shows one negative charge.  I have no idea how to fix this, but I just figured I'd let y'all know.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.32.49.123 (talk) 01:16, 22 October 2006
:All the amino acids are shown like that. Apparently some illustrator has a thing against zwitterions. —Keenan Pepper 21:38, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's because its monosodium, in solution all three groups are ionised but the solid (as stored) has the most acid proton substituted by a sodium cation and not the other one Knights who say ni 16:26, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm pretty sure that it does have all ionisable groups in the charged state even in the solid.  I had been taught in school that this is true, and causes amino acids to have a very high melting point.  Chemguide backs me up here as well:  "This is the form that amino acids exist in even in the solid state. If you dissolve the amino acid in water, a simple solution also contains this ion."  --137.222.132.67 19:36, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: depiction of molecule wrong?

message: I've combined these two into a single section of the health effects of MSG. I don't understand why they were separate . "Scientific review" read as if MSG was the greatest thing ever, and "Health concerns" read like it was the worst. I also removed some of the text marked as not referenced because... it was not referenced.--Nonpareility 18:47, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "Scientific review" and "Health concerns"

message: I removed this section because what MSG is called in other languages is not important to the discussion nor is it interesting (and if it was, every article in Wikipedia could have an "Alternate names" section). If other English-speaking people around the world call it something other than the names listed in the intro, then those things should also be listed in the intro in the same format.--Nonpareility 18:47, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "Alternate names"

message: There some good information in this article, but it is not really acceptable to have an article on MSG that doesn't mention;
*Professor Kikunae Ikeda - as the article at Ajinomoto Corporation says, Ajinomoto Corporation   didn't discover and patent MSG - it was actually Kikunae Ikeda whilst working at Tokyo Imperial University in 1907, who very shortly afterwards formed Ajinomoto Corporation to captilize on his discovery.
*Chinese Restaurant Syndrome - whilst this syndrome largely seems to be a myth, it is nevertheless one of the largest food scares there has ever been in the western world and many people spent many years believing that it was associated with MSG. As such it is necessary to discuss the connection and present the evidence against the link.
I can see that both these facts have been in past versions of this article. I can also see the edit warring over real or imaginary health effects of MSG have a long history here and are probably the cause of the current failure to mention Chinese Restaurant Syndrome. As such, I'm not going to bother correcting the article, and will just chalk it up to further evidence that Wikipedia doesn't work any more.
In case anyone is interested in a more balanced history, I found this article
*http://observer.guardian.co.uk/foodmonthly/story/0,,1522368,00.html
from the Guardian to be a more reliable source. -- Solipsist 19:07, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have added some info about Chinese restaurant syndrome, including a link to the Guardian article. You are right - it deserves a mention, since the majority of the public still think that the "syndrome" is real! --Sciencewatcher 00:53, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Two very significant omisions 

message: Uh because theres been no STUDY? to say there is no evidence is to say showing you a person who ate MSG and became overweight then stopped MSG and lost weight wouldn't be evidence? This should just be changed to "it hasn't been studied in humans",IMO.
AgentScully
No, that would not constitute evidence. To properly evaluate the effect you would need to have a double-blind study. The problem is that MSG improves the taste of food, so that in itself could cause people to eat more. --Sciencewatcher 23:57, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, you're way off on that one AgentScully. Evidence in this sense is something scientific that can be verified. --Soapergem (talk) 16:36, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

text: Yes, please create an account. Some researchers have certainly theorized that MSG causes the obesity epidemic, and that should be noted. However, these are more studies of rats and dogs, which is a well-known phenomena. That newborn rats become fat eating 10% pure MSG or being directly injected with it doesn't tell us much about the effects <1% dietary MSG in humans. Cool Hand Luke 19:02, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "There is no evidence that MSG causes obesity in humans." 

message: I have edited the section in this article (under Excitotoxicity) that stated that "MSG is absorbed very quickly" -> "MSG is absorbed very quickly in the gastrointestinal tract". This should remove the supposed contradiction with the glutamic acid article, where the absorbtion discussed is across the blood-brain barrier (which is a completely different matter). Can someone please check this and remove the tag? Sakkura 03:00, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So, was this not the point of the contradiction tag or is nobody reading this? Sakkura 01:23, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I don't think that was the original alleged contradiction.  The tag was added back in June, apparently over this.  It looks like the problem originally cited was about penetration to the nervous system.  This text must have been removed a while ago.  With your clarifying edit earlier this month, I think all contradictions have been resolved. I'm removing the tag. Cool Hand Luke 02:19, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradiction 

message: It simply is not true that this article uses British spelling.  Although the article did start with British spelling, since the fourth edit on July 16, 2002, it has used a random intermix of spellings with the predominant spelling over time being American. The "Follow the dialect of the first contributor" rule of WP:ENGVAR is only to be used as a last resort ("If all else fails").
Two people have now tried to make the article's spelling consistent per WP:ENGVAR, but both times the edits have been reverted back to the random intermix.  Reverting the edits without also making the spelling consistent is not helpful.  Please either stop reverting the edits or make the spelling consistent (even if that means applying the "If all else fails" rule). --VMS Mosaic 20:51, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, this has been a random intermix before the reversions as well, but it now seems consistent. After looking at my earlier additions, I realized that British English was the majority. I apologize for not getting it right the first time. Cool Hand Luke 21:53, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spelling 

message: For example, "almost all US-originated fast foods." Fast foods which originate in other countries are less likely to contain MSG? Proof? I am highly skeptical. (The other examples are quite dubious, too, and need citations, at least.)
:I'd be happy to scrap the whole section. The claim you point out is particularly problematic—neither the "most" nor the "US-originated" components are cited. However, we should mention that it's much more widely used in the west than a couple of generations ago. I'll look into finding an appropriate source and probably delete all of these bullet points. Cool Hand Luke 19:06, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm guessing it's just referring to a source narrowly discussing the use of MSG in the US (ignoring the rest of the world). In any case, I certainly agree the section needs citations. Hope you find something good Luke. Sakkura 20:24, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  No citations for MSG in various foods 

message: "...when dissolved in water (or saliva) it rapidly dissociates into free sodium and glutamate ions..."
Am I missing something? I thought sodium reacted violently (exploded) in water, forming sodium hydroxide. 68.13.249.178 00:48, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You are half right; if it was sodium it would violently react to water. However, MSG (like salt) dissociates into sodium ions, which are perfectly stable and very soluble in water. Perhaps we should rephrase the sentence to clarify that both the sodium and the glutamate are ions? Cool Hand Luke 03:43, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe it could be rephrased to "...dissociates into sodium cations and glutamate anions...". In my opinion it would look a little silly to write ions twice, ie. "...dissociates into sodium ions and glutamate ions...". Sakkura 16:54, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: How about "into both sodium and glutamate ions"?  There's still some ambiguity, but it's lessened. /85.228.39.223 18:19, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I put in my suggestion now. I'm not completely sure which forms reads better, but at least any ambiguity is gone. And hey, a few people might actually learn what cations and anions are, scary as that thought may be :o) Sakkura 23:34, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sodium? 

message: The FDA link in external links points to a 404 page.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Iandowe (talk • contribs) 12:00, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  FDA link 

message: What's up with the big quote at the end of reference 2?  Was this supposed to go in the article and mistakenly put in the references or is something else going on? Kehrbykid (talk) 05:04, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference 2