Talk:MDMA/Archive 2

message: I really don't think that archiving request, nor the fulfilling of it, was very wise. __meco 10:58, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request for archiving fulfilled 

message: The section on colloquial references is bloated and I have a hard time seeing the actual purpose of it in its current state. Anyone? __meco 20:54, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Streetname section 

message: This sentence has been removed due to lack of citation :Most blackmarket pills are made in basement labs with household chemicals [citation needed](often containing other products) and are thus dangerous because of their impure content. The information provided by the media, police and the Home Office (UK) suggests that MDMA supplied to Europe is mainly produced in laboratories in Israel and the Netherlands. 
In the same section are other unverified statements especially about contaminents and additives, (e.g. cocaine and heroin). I have yet to find any test results showing these two particular contaminants. Cocaine is highly unlikely as it is vastly more expensive than MDMA and such a small amount ingested would have little effect. Similarly for heroin. PLEASE PROVIDE SOURCES. Or the offending parts will be removed. --Dumbo1 17:28, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Method of Production and Contaminated Pills 

message: I believe much of the alleged history in the article is inaccurate.  For example, MDMA was used by Shulgin in the 70s not 60s and he didn't really bring it to public attention, just to the attention of some scientists and a therapist named Leo Zeff.  I have made a first pass at editing this section.
--Mattbagg 06:12, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  History 

message: "It must be noted that in the U.S., being in possession of "X" amount of ecstasy pills can lead to a conviction of manslaughter, due the risk the someone may die under heavy use of the drug.( Need legal citation/note ) "
:I think this spectacular claim submitted by User:Sam, Happy Mancan stay here until it can be verified. __meco 09:41, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In my state, manufacturing or importing more than 30 kilograms of MDMA, or more than 30 kilograms of a mixture containing is a CAPITAL felony actually punishable by death.  See: Florida Statute Title XLVI Chapter 893 Section 193  I find it easy to believe other states have similar laws. Cloaked Dagger 20:34, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit removed from front page 

message: === Moving to Ecstasy (drug) ===
Our policies say that we should use the most common name... why is this article at Methylenedioxymethamphetamine? bogdan 17:17, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would suggest the best peg to hang this article on would be MDMA. __meco 20:57, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I disagree. The article does not substantiate claims that dilution and specifically contamination is a prevalent phenomenon. Also, the article is about this "precisely defined chemical substance". The fact that it has various other aspects than the chemical / biochemical aspects are sidelines that can easily be dealt with as such within an article about MDMA. It should be noted that communities and authoritative sources such as Erowid, Lycaeum, and indeed Alexander Shulgin, when discussing various social / entheogenic / other aspects all use MDMA as primary reference however noting that other terms exist. __meco 08:49, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I'm finding it a little confusing to read your comment since there are no aticles to merge. There is but this one. The question is merely whether it should reside under the name Methylenedioxymethamphetamine, which it currently does – a name few people are going to recognize as being MDMA/Ecstasy when browsing a category directory for instance, or one of the two alternative names MDMA and Ecstasy, both currently being redirect pages to Methylenedioxymethamphetamine. If we bother to consider what the other Wikipedias have chosen to name their corresponding article we find that 10 have chosen "Ecstasy", 5 have chosen "MDMA" and six I cannot determine due to foreign alphabets, however, judging from the length of the article name I think at most one of those could have chosen "Methylenedioxymethamphetamine". Another comparison shows that LSD is thte main article name whereas Lysergic acid diethylamide and LSD-25 are redirects to that page. When the proper chemical name is as unwieldy as in the case of "Methylenedioxymethamphetamine" I think it's unreasonable to keep the article under its current name. __meco 13:06, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Renaming discussion 

message: Our policies say that we should use the most common name... why is this article at Methylenedioxymethamphetamine? bogdan 17:17, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would suggest the best peg to hang this article on would be MDMA. __meco 20:57, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I disagree. The article does not substantiate claims that dilution and specifically contamination is a prevalent phenomenon. Also, the article is about this "precisely defined chemical substance". The fact that it has various other aspects than the chemical / biochemical aspects are sidelines that can easily be dealt with as such within an article about MDMA. It should be noted that communities and authoritative sources such as Erowid, Lycaeum, and indeed Alexander Shulgin, when discussing various social / entheogenic / other aspects all use MDMA as primary reference however noting that other terms exist. __meco 08:49, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I'm finding it a little confusing to read your comment since there are no aticles to merge. There is but this one. The question is merely whether it should reside under the name Methylenedioxymethamphetamine, which it currently does – a name few people are going to recognize as being MDMA/Ecstasy when browsing a category directory for instance, or one of the two alternative names MDMA and Ecstasy, both currently being redirect pages to Methylenedioxymethamphetamine. If we bother to consider what the other Wikipedias have chosen to name their corresponding article we find that 10 have chosen "Ecstasy", 5 have chosen "MDMA" and six I cannot determine due to foreign alphabets, however, judging from the length of the article name I think at most one of those could have chosen "Methylenedioxymethamphetamine". Another comparison shows that LSD is thte main article name whereas Lysergic acid diethylamide and LSD-25 are redirects to that page. When the proper chemical name is as unwieldy as in the case of "Methylenedioxymethamphetamine" I think it's unreasonable to keep the article under its current name. __meco 13:06, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moving to [[Ecstasy (drug)]] 

message: "The Netherlands is by far the biggest XTC producer in the world. It is estimated that about 80%-90% of all the pills ('knijters', 'pilletjes' or ' piefies' in Dutch) in the world are produced in the Netherlands."
I think we should actively move all unsourced claims and assertions here. I think the fact that we don't often do this is a major reason why the quality of the article has significantly deteriorated since the time it was listed as Good. __meco 15:26, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moving unsourced claims to talk page pending references 

message: The article stipulates that one of the effects of ecstasy is 'a relieving sense that problems in life are insignificant'. I am not sure this is appropriate; rather, to be more precise, something like 'it is easier to face problems in life', or 'realisation of who we are, what we have lead to a decreased burden of problems of life'. Im just afraid the sentence currently in there doesnt portray the effects of the drugs quite well, and can misinform.
Also, in the same section: 'the feeling that something "tremendously important" or "fundamental and positive" is occurring'. It is put in a way that seems to make that statement sound absurd. --DragonFly31 00:27, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See my comments above (Recent Quality Drop) - this is a good example of the greater problem with which this article now suffers.... Anthony Citrano 22:01, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Effect 

message: :"MDMA (3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine), most commonly known by the street name ecstasy, Thizz, E, beans, or XTC, is a ...
I thought an e tab is not pure MDMA, ecstasy tablets are mainly made of MDMA but most of them also contain Caffeine, Methamphetamine, in some cases, Diphenhydramine, Procaine and I have even heard about tables made with some Ketamine and Pseudo/Ephedrine.
Why is this not mentioned on the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by PaddyC (talk • contribs) 02:59, August 31, 2006 (UTC)
:Perhaps because it's a rumour? This article already suffers from all sorts of rumours of what people have heard or believe and unless there's a reliable source to such claims the article should not have to propagate them. __meco 08:17, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed, and the qualm expressed by PaddyC is as (ir)relevant here as it would be in the article about heroin. This, as you contend, is the principal response (the one I make above would be subsidiary). __meco 16:21, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

text: The Devil - as usual - is in the detail. Whether intentionally or not, phrases like "notoriously impure," "common impurity," and "impure pills are common" can be taken to imply a large minority, if not a majority, and this is certainly the angle to most government/anti-drug propaganda. Obviously there are variations from country to country and region to region, but it's significant that one review (AC Parrott, 2004) of past survey results from the UK, the US, the Netherlands, Italy and the Czech republic concluded that, "the most recent surveys suggest... MDMA purity rates of around 90-100%." And even that has to be seen in the context that the similar MDA and MDE/MDEA made up a substantial part of the non-MDMA content. Nick Cooper 23:11, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not the same 

message: I think the subjective effects are heartfelt descriptions but are not systematic.  They partly overlap each other and are difficult to find citations for.  What about something like this instead?:
:::Effects desired by users include:
:::* increased positive emotion and decreased negative emotion
:::* increased sense of well-being 
:::* increased sociability and feelings of closeness or connection with other people (Vollenweider et al. 1998, Greer and Tolbert 1986)
:::* reduced defensiveness and fear of emotional injury (Greer 1985)
:::* a sense of increased insightfulness and introspective ability (Shulgin and Shulgin 1991, Greer 1985)
These descriptions are easier to link to citations than the current ones, although some may feel they don't capture the spirit of the current ones.  --Mattbagg 19:33, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rewriting Subjective effects 

message: : A study conducted by Bryan Yamamoto of Boston University alsoshowed that MDMA damages the blood-brain barrier.  He gave the drug torats and then injected a dye into their blood that is normally toolarge to cross the blood-brain barrier, yet the dye easily reached thebrain.  Even though the rats were given no subsequent doses of ecstasy,newly injected dye could still penetrate the brain 10 weeks later. This dysfunction of the blood-brain barrier exposes the brain totoxins and pathogens.  Although Yamamoto does not know exactly how longthe drug's effect lasts in humans, it is estimated that 10 weeks in arat's life corresponds to five to seven human years (Vollmer 2006).13
I have removed this dubious paragraph because I could not find such a study using PubMed. The provided reference refers to a lay press article and is not accessible without paying a fee. Cacycle 21:36, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dubious citation 

message: "Metabolites of MDMA that have been identified in humans include 3,4-methylenedioxyamphetamine (MDA), 4-hydroxy-3-methoxy-methamphetamine (HMMA), 4-hydroxy-3-methoxyamphetamine (HMA), 3,4-dihydroxyamphetamine (DHA, also called alpha-methyldopamine), 3,4-methylenedioxyphenylacetone (MDP2P), and N-hydroxy-3,4-methylenedioxyamphetamine (MDOH)."
I would like to find the IPAUC nomeclature of these metabolites. Diagrams of these metabolites would show visibly how it is metabolised. 
:Using my limited chemical nomenclature and chemsketch: </br>
*HMMA is (2-methoxy-4-[2-(methylamino)propyl]phenol)? SMILES: Oc1ccc(cc1OC)CC(C)NC ? 
*HMA (4-(2-aminopropyl)-2-methoxyphenol)? SMILES: Oc1ccc(cc1OC)CC(C)N ? 
*DHA (4-(2-aminopropyl)benzene-1,2-diol)? SMILES: Oc1ccc(CC(C)N)cc1O ? 
*MDOH (1-(1,3-benzodioxol-5-yl)-N-hydroxypropan-2-amine)? SMILES: CC(NO)Cc1ccc2OCOc2c1 ? 
 --x1987x(talk) 02:16, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Metabolites?!? 

message: I've removed this section, as not only was it rather disjointed and misplaced, but most of the claims were either repetitive of what was already in the article (e.g. jaw-clenching), or asymptomatic in light of the standard references to the effects of MDMA (e.g. "weightlessness" and "tightening of skin under chin"). References to "intoxication" and "drunkenness" only seem plausible in event of excessive - and therefore atypical - consumption. I've also removed the reference elsewhere to "possible muscle aching after usage" as this is widely regarded as a result of dancing continuously while under the influence of MDMA, rather than a direct effect of the MDMA itself (cf. Saunders). Someone who has not been dancing for hours will not experience muscle ache, while someone not on MDMA who has been dancing for hours will experience it. Nick Cooper 13:38, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Physical Effects" section 

message: :The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 
The result of the debate was no move. —Mets501 (talk) 04:46, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed Move

message: :Add  * Support  or  * Oppose  on a new line followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~.
* Strong oppose - Preverably no acronyms as name (there may be more things that use the same abbrev, though there is no disambiguation at the moment at MDMA), and the redirect is in place, so a) one can link to MDMA (works perfectly, click on the link!), or type MDMA in the searchbox, you get to the right place.  Codeine is named following INN (see Wikipedia:WikiProject Drugs/General/Naming of drug pages), apparently methylenedioxymethamphetamine does not have an INN, hence this name is used. --Dirk Beetstra T C 12:36, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Your claim about "all" acronyms redirecting to the "proper" name is clearly incorrect, as the various examples cited above by myself and others demonstrate, and I suspect that any attempt to rename most of them would be met with strong resistance (if they haven't already). Nick Cooper 17:44, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: Cleanup box just added by somebody. Long-term adverse effects needs massive work.
:Please sign your posts on talk pages. Unless somebody (that person or others) comes here to the talk page and says precisely how the article needs cleaning up, the tag should simply be removed IMO. 
:Far better, of course, for them to have cleaned the article up themselves... discussing proposed changes here first if they appear controversial. Andrewa 17:41, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup 

message: There are no negative user opinions mentioned in this drug article. The negative long-term effects section is started with sentence "these are debated among scientist" - but this is outdated. Maybe between neurobiologist there were some debate, a long time ago, but between psychiatrists and psychologist things stand strong - MDMA or ecstasy definitely has pleasant primary effects, but it is a drug with all it's negative consequences. THERE'S NO MAIN PROBLEM to take enough water when on ecstasy... this is really funny. Nobody is going to tell you what really happens on ecstasy and what kind of different psychical problems you are starting. (I'm writing this as student of psychology with my own experience of mdma). There is always only this "QUASI-scientific approach" to describe hallucinogens, but things are really simple - nobody needs this DRUG, and EVERYBODY who will take it will suffer the ways he is not able to imagine now. I don't suppose my voice will be heard because of lobby for ecstasy - on every forum they are users who ALWAYS advocate it, and EX-USERS ho hate it. And, there are some more informations from another side: http://ecstasy-effects.com (why THIS is not in links?? - and don't lie, I posted this address before, altough I don't have anything to do with it).
so, to summarize - after common folks read this article, they have 1000x times better view on ecstasy as it is in reality. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.102.3.94 (talk) 09:46, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If by "better view" you mean more realistic, then I agree. There are no real downsides to moderate use of MDMA in humans, as demonstrated by study after study as well as the tens of millions of MDMA users who have neutral or positive feelings about their experiences with the drug. There are huge downsides to addictive abuse of most substances or activities that humans can choose to incorporate into their lives. Sinned 13:55, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Just one look at the top page of "Ecstasy Effects" reveals numerous demonstrably false or highly misleading claims. The bottom line is that it is a commercial site "selling" a "recovery programme," and as such cannot be considered an impartial source of information. Nick Cooper 14:00, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Any negative user opinions about ecstasy are missing 

message: Can someone who is better at the drug boxs than me integrate the spinning MDMA gif? 
You can find the code for the .gif in the MDMA History Archive from the Microswitch edit of the same name. 
24.144.50.186 17:51, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Animated MDMA molecule Gif

message: Haha :) dear Nick Cooper, well, you know, I have the advantage that I'm not personally interested in ecstasy anymore - as you are. It's very clear that you are at least casual ecstasy user, because logic related to ecstasy seems to be nothing for you. Your nice stylization will change nothing about it. 
1) You are ready to condemn some web page with minority opinions, because you find it impartial - maaan, who are you gonna believe then? A drug dealer?! Or current user (e.g. alcoholics never let in "I'm dependent")?! Or a company which has lots of practical cases and goes AGAINST ITSELF by saying "people, don't do it". Do you understand this or are you totally goofy? :) If their main goal were to make money (or they would love mdma), they would be running webpage just like this one. They would be RATIONALIZING any danger behind non-emotional quasi-facts like following:
2) "There are no real downsides to moderate use of MDMA in humans, as demonstrated by study after study." This is plain lie. Only to know ecstasy belongs to metamphetamines is enough. Just look here. Speed is not ecstasy? Ok, here you can read about ecstasy causing 50% memory loss after first experiences with it. This is outdated? Ok - here you have it one more time, frankly and fresh.
3) Neurons oxidization with hydrogene peroxid, loss of memory - every user of ecstasy accepts it, BECAUSE IT'S WORTH IT! Ecstasy is not "neutral" or "somewhat good", no, ecstasy is GREAT! It is the most georgious thing in your life, everyone says it after first time. They even have the feeling they have it under control (of course, otherwise it would not feel good!), and EVENTUALLY experience pure happyness. They can count on it - at least few hours. Morning after they are changed for months, seeing only one side of the coin. I've seen people to be HELL decided to stop their "moderate use" and have seen them in a month saying "Aaaah, yees, I remember... let's move on, well you know I'm kind of crazy HAHA." In Douglas Rushkoff's Kyberia there are ex-users after years of staying clear saying "man, maybe everybody has some sum of happyness.... sometimes I think I deplate mines already with mdma" - and that's exactly the point of psychical suffering. 
Nick Cooper, I want now that you admit that drug recovery company saying "don't take drugs" are going against themselves, and definitely don't need to think up facts. And I want you to admit that you lied when you said "There are no real downsides to moderate use of MDMA in humans, as demonstrated by study after study" because I showed you several scientific researches about it. That's all (I'm not dumb to be awaiting that current user admits psychological negatives altough he experiences it).
yours sincerely
Vladimir Marcek, czech republic
PS BENJIWOLF: I'm not and expert on goverment and money flows as you are, but I know that existence of one drug is not reason for existence of multiple drugs. Ecstasy can't be used "moderately" (remember, metamphetamine), and if, then maybe in 50x smaller amounts than it is common. Have you seen somebody on ecstasy while you were clear? I believe so. So you must know why it is strictly banned on whole world.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.102.9.253 (talk • contribs) 
: To:Vladimir in Czech...i appreciate ur concern, yet ur contribution is somewhat reactionary and too emotionally charged and unscientific. One of your links is to methamphetamine and already higher up in this article it clearly establishes MDMA is not crystal meth, in fact the famous retracted article on this issue was exactly a switch of crystal meth for MDMA by Ricaurte, and he was severely chastised for that switch, dont make the same mistake as he did. They are 2 totally different substances and not even in the same category of drug classification...if u can say MDMA is meth than i can say coffee is cocaine...formulas:MDMA C11H15NO2 crystal meth C10H15N...(even if MDMA didnt have oxygen attached and had the same 3 elements yet in a different ratio it would be a totally different substance with possibly entirely different chemical nature)....In fact it isnt so banned, it was legal for a long time in the US, and while not normally legal it is tolerated in many countries, (and it was made illegal mostly worldwide as of pressure from some individuals in the US government)(and the opinion of the DEAs own judge wasnt followed) and as to myself being "clear"...i have only taken MDMA a handful of times in my life...i am almost always "clear"..and anyways i am especially "clear" the few times i have taken MDMA...in fact thats why i have a good opinion of it...i have experienced exceptional clarity while taking it...i have seen people on MDMA...they are basically quite normal...a little lovey dovey or like theyd drunk a few beers...yet greatly interested...more communicative generally...their thoughts and speech isnt impaired like if theyd drunk a few beers...theyr super sweet usually...anyways... i have nowhere seen MDMA causes "50%" memory loss the first time or even after repeated overdoses...as well memory is a complicated variable comprising many things and short term memory is just one aspect of it...Another of your linked articles has a scientist saying people that have used MDMA a few times in their lives DONT show any permanent memory loss or impaired functioning...these studies were with frequent users as well...none of these studies looks at people that use MDMA in combination with antioxidants or utilizing other neuroprotective measures...in any case people can read what they wish and then make their informed choices...in fact thats what people from my part of the world fought for over in ur part...to allow people to make their own choices...please stop trying to meddle in my part of the world and remove our freedoms and ability to make our own choices...im not concerned with what other people voluntarily put in their bodies when they have access to the info about it as long as they dont attack others with an axe like people using alcohol sometimes do...I am concerned with all the toxic chemicals they use that end up in my body from their pollution and that damage all my body systems including mental and reproductive abilities, and that cause mutations in my genetype... and all creatures genetypes for that matter...anyways here is a link for u so stop trying to ban my choice to use MDMA Vlad and i wont mess with ur ability to drink Pilsner Urquell...its a nice beer...tastes nice...i have drunk it a few times...yet i really try not to drink alcohol...its impairs many body systems including the brain and memory...only do studies examining very light use show any possible benefit...so its only usually when im with friends that really drink a lot that i have a beer or two...in fact as i travelled thru lovely slovakia some great slovakians kept buying me beers and alcohol...yet really insisted i drink it...and to be nice i did...yet i had a headache afterwards and it likely did damage to my brain...sincerely...benjiwolf... —Preceding unsigned comment added by benjiwolf (talk • contribs)  14:43, 16 January 2007
: Vladimir, your barely-coherent and entirely conjectural ramblings are not worthy of any response other than this one, although you hardly help yourself by throwing quotes at me which I never used. Nick Cooper 14:21, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Vladimir, that isn't science. From the first article you linked to: "Fifteen MDMA users, ranging in age from 17 to 31, participated in the year-long study. Participants of the study took the drug an average of 2.4 times per month."    They have no controls in this study, they don't monitor the intake of these users, they don't measure the dosage, they don't measure the purity (how do you know they aren't eating methamphetamine and ketamine?) There's absolutely no evidence that these people ever ingested MDMA, because the researchers did not perform a controlled study. This is about as scientific as conducting a random telephone survey of 15 people. Sinned 05:29, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  From the second link you pasted, "After 18 months, 59 first-time ecstasy users who had taken six tablets on average and 56 non-users were re-examined with the same techniques and tests. The study found that low doses of ecstasy did not severely damage the serotonergic neurons or affect mood. However, there were indications of subtle changes in cell architecture and decreased blood flow in some brain regions, suggesting prolonged effects from the drug, including some cell damage. In addition, the results showed a decrease in verbal memory performance among low-dose ecstasy users compared to non-users. ".   Once again, there are no control groups in these studies. There's no monitoring of the ingestion of the drugs, there's no evidence that they ingested MDMA, there's no measurement of doses, there's no verifiable measurement of frequency of dose. There's not even evidence of any harmful effects, because the only result they measured was a decrease in blood flow in certain brain regions, which for all they know is a positive change. There's no mention of OTHER drugs used during the 18 month time period, not even alcohol use. This isn't science, it's drug war propaganda. Sinned 05:29, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Still no seeing negatives of ecstasy? 

message: looked a little more into the last study Vlad quotes, as this one had the most to it, then i saw some problems...study was done in amsterdam, and one of the first things we notice is that the volunteers were at "high risk" for ecstacy use yet never had tried it...what does that mean "high risk"...likely it means they are irresponsible volunteers or hard partiers or something of this nature...and a few of them that really abuse their bodies over that 18 months could really skew those results...and right away we see they might misuse whatever they get a hold of...yet here is where i see the real problem...these people that used "on average 6+ occasions" ...how did they get their MDMA?...from the streets??...on the streets of A-town? if uve ever been there, ull know that there are hundreds of swindlers and pushers selling anything they can find that is cheap to come by and passing it off as "exstacy" or "coke"...they are typically illegal immigrants or hard drug addicts with no incomes other than what they can swindle...(to get actual MDMA one is better off with a full Dutch one knows privately yet even here we still wouldnt know for sure the exact makeup of the pills)...we have no idea what these users ingested, it could have been anything, and after 6+ pills the odds of one being something other than E are very high...i went to a free pill test center in amsterdam and heard from the staff, that there are all sorts of things people are trying to pass off as "XTC" on the streets...anyways this is the problem...these young people are being put at risk as they have no way to aquire real and pure standardized MDMA, as the tests show, and the UKs own parliamentary committee found, that this drug is minimally harmful and less so than alcohol and tobacco...yet millions of young people are put at risk as the way it is handled...instead of accurate and truthful propaganda, and info on how to use it responsibly, sources where it can be acquired in pure form in known and standard dosages, we have a situation where young people have no idea what they are putting in their bodies...they may have found some real MDMA a few times, know they like it and it isnt harmful, and then get fake MDMA on other occasions that in fact does serious harm to them...that situation is criminal...and the responsibility for undoubtedly millions of americans and europeans being slightly poisoned on occasion lies with some in the american government and how they have handled this! We know full well, that in human history people will acquire what they want...making MDMA illegal has compounded its problems, luckily it is innocuous enough so that at least it itself leads to few problems...its the hundreds of adulterations that have led to the more severe toxicity issues...and fire away ur propaganda nancy reagan as u conduct ur "ever so christian astrology seances", there is nothing especially wrong with christianity & astrology, yet some of ur pronouncements tend to sound hypocritical...people will always use the substances they want...ur percentages of drug users goes up and down and up and down...and stays the same...yet we all trust ya when it comes to our bodies as we know how well u handled the AIDs epidemic...and as i see crystal meth as a serious problem, and want this chemicals use to die down, im just not so sure anymore even something clearly of horrendous nature should be made illegal...perhaps the only way the US can fight off the ever increasing meth problem is to legalize it and produce it at low prices while taking over the market to see who is using and then give appropriate treatment...yet the reality is there is no sympathy or compassion for the populace from that quarter and they are content to watch a million tweakers wreck their lives and say "i told u so"...just as they were content to watch a few homosexuals get AIDs and said "i told u so"...and then let disaster unfold into the entire worlds heterosexual population as well...there are other ways to keep the world economy afloat than these types of schemes...so i say even for the worst...tobacco & crystalmeth...we keep it legal...give people the ability to know what they purchase...and give them the most accurate info Benjiwolf 17:28, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: A Final Response to Vladimir

message: The SMILES entry text for MDMA on the wikipedia page is: 
CC(NC)CC1=CC=C(OCO2)C2=C1
However, at PUBCHEM the SMILES for MDMA is: 
CC(CC1=CC2=C(C=C1)OCO2)NC
Can someone familiar with this system correct the SMILES entry to reflect the actual substance? I understand that MDMA has isomer's (R and S). 
Microswitch 22:24, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  SMILES Nomenclature is confusing 

message: I have NEVER heard ANYONE ever refer to MDMA as "McDonalds Donalds Massive Anarchy" - so I'm just wondering where that came from?
As a past user of MDMA (just for experimentation purposes), I've heard all kinds of slang being used to describe MDMA but "McDonalds Donalds Massive Anarchy" has never been mentioned.
I think that part of the article needs to be reconsidered, as that is not a popular slang or name for MDMA.
That's just my opinion, but I might be wrong. Maybe that term is used more often in other countries. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.183.220.44 (talk) 06:22, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  McDonalds Donalds Massive Anarchy