Talk:Richard J. Daley

message: The stuff towards the end is still really bothersome.  RJD's reputation has not risen "considerably" after his death... he is still remembered by many in Chicago as a racist, autocratic thug.  --Anon.
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When was he elected mayor and how long did he stay in office? --rmhermen
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This article is pretty good, if not definitive.  I'll be adding to it from time to time.  I covered duh mare regularly for a couple of years in the 60s during my stint in Chicago journalism.  Ortolan88
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Glad you liked it.  I wasn't going for definitive, just basic information.  Look forward to seeing your improvements and expansions. shsilver
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This article devolves into POV towards the end. It's kind of a mess, if anyone wants to tackle it.
Moncrief
::Yes, i agree. Statments such as Yes, Daley presided over a wasteful machine, but few cities truly are governed efficiently. In reality, cities are jungles of interest groups, ignorance, and chronic poverty, need to be fixed. Green Mountain 21:42, 4 Jan 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Old talk

message: I don't know who took the following out of the article:
:Any Democratic vote fraud in Cook County was easily matched statewide by Republican practices downstate, which included voting by telephone, and bulk voting by political leaders.
I was there, I was covering Mayor Daley as a reporter, I was covering elections, these things actually happened under the leadership of the crooked Republican Paul Powell, whose political approach was summed up in his constant sponsorship of "fetcher" bills, threats to regulate some industry or other which would then bring in bribes to kill the legislation.  His motto was "I smell the meat a'cooking!"   There were many news stories about Republican fraud, some written by me.  I intend to return this information, in some form, to the article, but I'll hold off to hear objections.  This was the balance in Illinois politics in the 1960s and it is important for the information to be there because of all the uproar about Daley stealing the Presidential election for Kennedy.  They all stole elections.  Ortolan88 05:15, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I note that "I was there" is likely to garner a diversion to the "No original research" policy. , WP:NOR.  You gotta back it up with some substantial documentation, especially when the topic is political. -- Pinktulip 00:10, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

text: For what it's worth, Paul Powell was actually a Democrat, though not a Daley Democrat.  See Paul_Powell_(politician).  JMRyan (talk) 03:38, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: I was there

message: I marked as needing citation the section claiming he was called Papa Bear, or Boss Daley.  No long time Chicagoan would ever call Daley Papa Bear and DEFINITELY NOT Boss Daley.  Papa Bear was a cute name used for someone at the Chicago Bears by people who were afraid of him or trying to smooch his buttocks.  "Boss" (not "The Boss") was the title of Mike Royko's book about Daley and the only time Daley was called Boss was in reference to that book.  Boss was waaaaaayyyyy too meek a title for Daley.  If anyone had referred to Daley as Boss, the others in the conversation would have corrected the reference to King, Emperor, kingmaker, or he who crowned American presidents, and laughed at Boss.  Anyone who would ever have called Daley Boss Daley would have been considered a fugitive from a Dukes of Hazard episode and sent back to Wilson and Broadway.  I was 6 when Daley took office and 27 when he died.  Police, Fire, and any working man called him Senior, or The Old Man (when mixing him into a conversation about Richard M Daley), or Richard J.   Tgdf (talk) 02:10, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: I was there and titles after death

message: A substantial portion of this entire biographical article is devoted specifically to acts of chicanery on the part of R.J. or people working for him. Can an interested party balance it somewhat? I read this bio and am left thinking that most of what the man contributed during his long political career are various methods on how to stay in office. He *was*, by reputation, a bit of a crook and heavy-handed, but this article glosses over substantial portions of even just his career in politics as a whole, not to mention his family life or other relevant details. I tagged a few items that definitely need attention, and leave it to others who have a greater interest in American politics.
→ P.MacUidhir (t) (c) - "Proud to be Chicago-born and Chicago-bred" 05:46, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Pádraic_MacUidhir: I agree with your assessment; this article has large holes in Daley's life story. Other parts of the article are anecdotal; while these stories are interesting, some of them seem to drift across the POV line and/or lack verifiability. There must surely exist a wealth of factual information on this interesting and important politician that can be tapped to make a better article. — JonRoma 09:33, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  A thought. 

message: I added some structure to the article so that "machine" verbiage is segreated off on its own.  That should allow editors and readers to focus on it or ignore it as they wish.  -- Pinktulip 01:12, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Structure

message: I recently added on to a comment that the reason Chicago did not end up like Detroit and Cleveland was because Mayor Daley encouraged middle-class Whites to remain in the city by preserving de facto segregation. Less than five minutes later, the statement was edited out. For whatever your opinions may be on the issue, the fact is Mayor Daley learned a few lessions from the Chicago Race Riots of 1919, and knew that if integration came about, an even greater race riot would've occured, resulting in a war zone not unlike Newark and Detroit. With that said, if we are to condemn de facto segregation, we should condemn those who live in such neighborhoods. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.49.80.58 (talk • contribs) .
:We shouldn't be condemning anyone here; Wikipedia is supposed to be an encyclopedia and not a platform for expressing a point of view. Perhaps the person who reverted your comment may care to comment him/herself, but a plausible reason your comment was edited out is that it represented speculation, rather than being a documented fact or a quote from published material on Daley.  I have no doubt that some historian who's written a biographical work on the Daley era might advance the very assessment you did. In this event a quote from such works would be entirely appropriate for inclusion in the article, as would quotes from material advancing contrary views on the Daley era. The idea is to present the various perspectives without espousing any of them.
:Also, please sign your comments to this and other talk pages by typing ~~~~ at the end of your posts.  Thanks. — JonRoma 05:05, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: De Facto Segregation

message: Just to address the reason why I reverted out the following wording:  "He played a major role in the history of the Democratic Party as a leader of Catholic Democrats, especially with his support of fellow Catholic John F. Kennedy in 1960 and of Hubert Humphrey in 1968."  As written, this would indicate he was a leader of Catholic democrats but not non-Catholic democrats, which is incorrect.  Also, by including the "fellow Catholic" descriptor for JFK, the wording implies that either: 1) the primary reason Daley suppported Kennedy is because he was Catholic; or 2) that the most important thing to know about Kennedy is that he was Catholic.  These are both also misleading.  So I have reverted the changes. Fairsing 04:59, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Better rethink that. The Kennedy family systematically reached out to Catholic Irish leaders of whom Daley was prominent.  See leamer, "Kennedy Men"; Leamer pp 313, 434; Cohen and Taylor. American Pharaoh: p. 250; Timothy J. Meagher. The Columbia Guide to Irish American History (2005) p.150Rjensen 05:10, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What you say might be true.  However, it seems to me that the issue is too complex to explain in one sentence. Steve Dufour 12:50, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Leader of democrats / catholic democrats 

message: It's written in many different resources.  The 1968 convention article even has it sourced that lip readers claimed he said those exact words.75.72.35.253 (talk) 00:39, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: They Claimed Daley Said "Fuck You, You Jew Son Of A Bitch.  Go Home You Lousy Motherfucker, Go Home"

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thread_title: File:Richard j daley signature 1954.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

message: At the bottom of this section (1968 and later career), there are references to some of Mayor Daley's nick names.  The only 'Papa Bear' in Chicago was, and always will be, Papa Bear George S. Hallas!
I would add a common joke in Chicago was that the Chicago press would ask Mayor Daley if he ever thought of running for governor of Illinois, to which Hizzonor would reply, "Why would I want the demotion?!"
12.148.143.20 (talk) 00:31, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  1968 and later career 

message: I cannot cite sources, but my understanding of the policeman-disorder quote was that Daley was referring to a specific order and said, "The policeman is not here to create this order. The policeman is here to preserve this order." I understood the meaning to be that the police did not generate the order to clear the streets and Grant Park, but instead were acting to enforce an order that had been given. In his Chicago accent where "th" becomes "d" the word "this" becomes "dis" and hence the quote "The policeman is not here to create disorder. The policeman is here to preserve disorder." I have never understood this as a "slip of the tongue", this was an issue of local pronunciation. 
Danaleeling (talk) 09:05, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disorder quote 

message: This page smacks of being written by Daley loyalists.
1. The page lacks a section called "controversy." That is shocking, since Daley is considered by some to be one of U. S. history's most corrupt politicians.
The very slight treatment of the 1960 Presidential election alone is shocking.
2. It is vastly commonly acknowledged by historians of the 1960 election that recount and reversal of the results of *TWO* likely result-tampered states, Illinois and Texas, would have resulted in Nixon becoming president in 1960. This is spelled out clearly and frankly in "Another Race To the Finish - The Washington Post"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2000/11/17/another-race-to-the-finish/c810a41c-7da9-461a-927b-9da6d36a65dc/
and other sources.
Yet the coverage here, as of this date in April 2016, reads "Although often quoted as fact, this repeated claim is impossible. Kennedy won with 303 electoral college votes and needed only 269, meaning Nixon would have lost even had he won Illinois' 27 votes. Had Nixon won Illinois' 27 electoral votes, he would have had 246 electoral votes while Kennedy would have had 276"
That section is dishonestly, IRRESPONSIBLY MISLEADING. It is a blatant and almost surely willful omission of widely publicized germane facts. See the Post article linked above.
The word "controversy" appears merely once in the entire page. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
I am not a Wiki author but this is presented in a potential call to action. Corrective action.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.119.141.15 (talk) 11:26, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I have to agree a little here, though not completely. I don't know that Daley was necessary one of the "most corrupt politicians" but there were certainly many concerns raised, especially his relationship to the Chicago Outfit. The fact that the Outfit is not even mentioned in the article despite the fact that it was a significant factor in Chicago politics throughout Daley's career seems very strange (i.e. very intentional). Can somebody comment on the thinking here? -- MC 141.131.2.3 (talk) 18:58, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

text: I do find some of the text in the "Legacy" section to be biased and possibly partisan. I'm going to edit it out; feel free to continue the discussion here. Airbornemihir (talk) 20:23, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  DISHONEST BIAS. IRRESPONSIBLY MISLEADING. 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The current article really omits a huge amount of information about the cronyism and corruption overseen by Daley.  Chicago was "a city that works" because the well-connected make sure their cash cow stayed healthy -- for their benefit.  It could be improved with a more complete picture of how the city was run. Freond (talk) 18:12, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Does not paint an accurate picture