Talk:Vijayanagara Empire/Archive 1

message: mr dinesh kannambadi u behave like a half baked historian, u want to prove telugu's r inferior to kannadigas by putting forward all the non sense stuff, dont forget the greatness of telugu people it were the telugu people who built the first empire in south india the great satavahanas, the whole of south india including karnataka was a part of their empire,even the chalukyas were feudatories to them who were sent to karnataka from kadapa dist in andhra pradesh,they adopted the ways of the land like all the telugu people do where ever they go.dont forget the greatness of telugu people they were the first people to colonise southeast asia and founders of mahayana buddism and spread it in whole of asia and brought prestige to our country, telugu was a spoken language then in satavahana empire it is evident by the presence of telugu words in gadhasaptasati by emperor hala. and also a inscription  written in brahmi was found near vishakapatnam which had telugu words written on it, telugu people alone r mentioned in the puranas dating back to milliniums from the deccan plateau. 
coming to vijayanagar empire, it shows how inferior you kannadigas feel in india , u want to make up some thing and proclaim your self as great people, you people lack glorious history and feel inferior to others .that's what making you to behave like  half baked historian, the vijayanagar empire was founded by telugu people in telugu land and was assisted by telugu sage vidyaranya, dont take that if a person is from a part of state which is now in karnatake as kannadiga. it only adds insult to injury for you. dont you know that the brother of vidyaranya sayana was a minister in bukka court and he wrote commentary on vedas in telugu, this only prooves that telug was a favourite medium since the starting of the empire. and from the very founding day of the empire vijayanagar was dependant on telugu people and they appointed telugu governers to all of their provinces and the main provinces were penugonda and chandragiri both in andhra pradesh,unfortunately during the partition of states bellary dist which was telugu area since ages came under karnataka and u people claim what ever falls in karnataka as your own.grow up man and understand real history and dont behave like propagandist.only telugu people can built an empire so glorious in south india,just see asia , if today every indian feels proud to see indian culture in whole of southeast asia, it was because of brave telugu rulers who went on seas to conquer lands and spread our religion and culture,can any other state claim such greatness in india.
Sorry I forgot to add this earlier. The intention behind removing some mythical theories was not
to confound the reader with innumerable theories about the founding of the empire. 
India as you know is a land of myths and stories. Very few stories have historical merit.
I was under the impression that our responsibilitiy as history buffs is to provide the most
plausible data instead of confusing the reader.
Just as an example, there is a statement in the article that "telugu was the court language of vijayanagara
empire". This is a flamboyant statement which most historians will not accept. Krishna deva Raya may have
encouraged Telugu literature in 1500 AD onwards, but that does not imply it as "court language". If you study the history of the  empire carefully, you will see that both Kannada and Telugu were the official languages. If Telugu literature was deemed popular to Krishnadevaraya, this was also the time for Kannada Haridasa movement and one can clearly see "purandara mantapa" in Hampi. The script used itself was the "vijayanagara script" which one may
construe as the last common point in the evolution of modern kannada and telugu from the age old 'Hale Kannada".
Even if a few records were found in Telugu in Hampi itself, it still does not imply that it alone was the offical
language. 
Dinesh Kannambadi.
I intend to add more material on the middle period of the emprier; the list of rulers needs cleanup and finishing which I hope to do in the next few days. There are also a number of links to sort out. Imc 18:22, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  theories on founding of empire 

message: The list of rulers in the template differs slightly from those in the article. I'd think that it is ok, as long as both are retained. The reasons are as follows: -
* It is difficult to exactly pinpoint who ruled when - and both the template and the article come from credible sources.
* Having both of them would help the reader understand that some episodes in history have not been documented well.
* Most importantly, the template does not make any claims about the period of the rule. Hence, its retention would only imply a reasonably well accepted line of kings, but not about the exact period of their rule. Also, it has links to biographical information about the kings, and hence, is useful.
* Also see Template talk:Vijayanagara empire. --Gurubrahma 14:29, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Template 

message: There are differences in spelling for some of the names. They should be standardised according to scholarly standards - as at National Library at Calcutta romanization. Imc 15:22, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Writing the names

message: I am not sure how to create a map showing Vijaynagar empire and its extent. Can someone please do this.
Dinesh Kannambadi
:Done! - Parthi (Venu62) 23:09, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vijayanagar territories 

message: Penukonda, chandragiri, Arcot should be added to the capital list since the article deals with all four dynasties --Vyzasatya 20:41, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Capitals 

message: Hi. I have looked at the two existing chronologies in the Vijayanagar page (one is a colourful template) and the other called "Robert Sewell" list of Kings. I have compared these two lists to the three reference sources
listed in the reference section, books which I happen to own (namely, Dr. S.U. Kamath, Prof. Nilakanta Sastri,
Hampi- Travel Guide,  Government of India). Here are my conclusions.
1. The colourful template seems to very closely match all the three provided references not only in the names of kings but also the years of rule for each king (Give or take a few years). Whoever put the template in did a good job (not me).
2. All the three mentioned reference books match almost exactly. Even the names of brothers (of kings) match.
3. The list provided under Rober Sewell seems to be way off in dates (sometimes by more than a decade) and also in the names and chronology of kings. Some kings in Sewell's list dont exist elswhere and some in all the other sources dont exist in Sewell's list. In Sewell's list the kings called under Saluva dynasty are actually put under Tuluva dynasty by all the other sources. In the Sewell's list, kings put into Tuluva list are actually in the Arividu dynasty list for all other sources. So there are major differences.
I have decided to go with the majority and maintain the existing Template (I will add dates to appear next to the name). The template needs a few corrections for the Aravidu list which I shall make.If anyone has any questions please dont hesitate to contact me. I understand Sewell was the first writer on the history of the empire (1905), but later researchers used more advanced methods of research and are probably more reliable. I will also study the contents of pages for each king and bring in matter from Dr. Kamath and Prof. Sastri. Sometimes the two scholars may not match in their opinion and I shall make that also clear. Enjoy!!!Dineshkannambadi 00:15, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vijayanagar Kings Template and Chronology 

message: I plan to insert a photo of Purandaradasa in the religion section. Can someone please bring in a photo of Annamacharya so as to provide a "balanced view". I dont see a Photo in the page for Annamacharya.
Dineshkannambadi.
: The statues are in Tiruapthi and hyderabad. Someone from there could take a picture. mlpkr 14:11, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photo of Annamacharya 

message: i would suggest including Photo of Saint Kanakadasa as well in kannada literature section.--Ganesha1 21:48, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photo 

message: In the coming days and weeks, The Vijayanagar Empire article will be undergoing several copyedits by a group of us guys (from all over India) with the good intention of bringing  this article to Featured article status. The article as such will reflect the same information as it does now but with changes to grammar, syntax etc. The meaning and the contents 'will not change. Please bear in mind that this should not become an opportunity for revert wars and fights between Kannada and Telugu people.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 17:38, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Peer review 

message: He was general of DevaRaya II, who had painted Indra and other Jain things. A paragraph from 
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/br/2003/04/08/stories/2003040800090300.htm
" The most beautiful representations of Indra in paintings are seen on the ceilings of the Jain temple at Tirupparuttikunram on the outskirts of Kanchipuram. Commissioned in the late-14th century A.D., by Irugappa, a general and minister of the famous Vijayanagar ruler, Bukkaraya II, these paintings show Indra in a variety of forms and poses. A rare painting depicts Indra joyfully dancing before the Jina."
But other source says Irugappa was general under HariHara II. What is right?
http://igmlnet.uohyd.ernet.in:8000/gw_44_5/hi-res/hcu_images/G2.pdf
Can you include these(1. about these jain temples at Kanchi, hampi and panspuri during the rule, 2. about Irugappa scholor in literature 3. about paintings in arts)? Mlpkr 19:56, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jain Scholor Irugappa 

message: At present the literature gives impression that all are poets and saintly works. So I added two sentences one at header and one giving examples and references for music, dance and medicine etc. mlpkr 23:52, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: More info on relation between Vijayanagara and his subhect Kumaragiri http://www.rajahmundry.net/Rajahmundry/History/body_history.html and his work 'Vasantarajeeyam' at http://teluguuniversity.ac.in/museum/pages/lakumadevi.html mlpkr 00:22, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

text: I deleted kumargiri information from the article with the suspicions that they may not be accepeted as authentic web references. But it is truth. Leaving it for now. mlpkr 22:09, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The literature

message: * A Forgotten Empire (Vijayanagar): a contribution to the history of India (Translation of the "Chronica dos reis de Bisnaga" written by Domingos Paes and Fernão Nunes about 1520 and 1535, respectively, with a historical introduction by Robert Sewell).Free Download at Project Gutenberg
It violated MoS section order so I removed it here for now. Thanks!  Mattisse 12:34, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Free E-Book - removed from article & put here temporarily 

message: Hello Mattise and Dineshkannambadi,
Could you please explain why a free book link voilates,and what is the MoS Section order.Can you please elbotare if such decisions are taken by a few selective users or it is a violation on the whole.The removal seems contradictory,and also some other Wiki pages do have a link to Project Guttenberg books,which you should be knowing that is a non profit organisation.
Thanks
Southernstar
---
Hello  Dineshkannambadi,
Who are these, Feature Article reviewers, are and what do you mean by violation,and why are you anticipating the it would not be allowed when some wiki pages have them.
Thanks
Southernstar
:Hi Southernstar! As you can see from the template at the top of the page, this article is being reviewed for Featured Article status. See Wikipedia:Featured article candidates and Wikipedia:Featured article criteria. To qualify as a Feature Article a strict format must be followed. Your entry violates the FA format rules. Specifically, see Wikipedia:Guide to layout#Standard appendices. Sincerely, Mattisse 14:30, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Free E-Book - removal 

message: Whoever wrote the above account is a kannada fanatic and chauvanist. He should learn politeness, decency, fairness and balanced outlook. It was very unlike of Kannadigas. Kannambadi seems to be breeding a new breed of fanatics.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 59.165.151.180 (talk) 09:12, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This supremacy is itself very unfortunate. I dont have any doubt that Kannadigas are good people but why drag someone like Yadavas who have nothing to do with kannada? Shivaji Maharaj being of Hoysala origin is not confirmed,even if u confirm it,can u prove he spoke or cared for kannada? 
It is untrue of u to declare as Marathi as being evolving language. Marathi is as much classical as any dravidian languages. Sanskrit->Apabhramsha->Maharashtri Prakrit->Marathi adds up at least 2000 years. As far I know there is nothing called Proto-dravidian. Many Indian and foreign linguists have pointed out that all Dravidian languages are evolved from tamil. We dont want others history as a slave. Our history is quite glorious and that is what makes Mr.Kannambadi jealous of us. 59.95.31.85 11:15, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Chauvanism

message: I had merged repeated information like year and founders in one sentence, information about hampi into one sentence, also deleted the nationalities and years of vistors(since we specified as Europians already and the times for each of them are not given and are available in subsections), removed some adjectives, simplified some phrases and put the information about architecture together. Since Info about Vidyarana is also in the history section, and also there are theories that he was patroned later, but not guided the formation of empire, and also because the first sentence will be simpler with out long phrase, I deleted his information from Leadin section as well. mlpkr 17:13, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Slimmed down Lead in section 

message: Hi,
Thank you for the mail. I added the Aravidu kings’ content based from the book Nilakanta Shastri’s book “A History of South India”, with additional references from the two other books mentioned in those pages, which cover the history of Madurai and Tanjore Nayaks.Their reign and politics with the Southern Nayak rulers also caused greater re-configuration of life and society in Tamil Nadu starting from 17th century.
Also it is a surprise that they were able to hold on to at least 1/3rd of their Domains for well over another 100 years, inspite of numerous civil wars, rebellious and murderous kins, non-stop invasions from the Deccan Sultans, and unco-operative Nayaks for Madurai and Gingee. Their main villains responsible for their final misery would be none other than the middle kings of Madurai Nayaks (and to a lesser degree the Nayaks of Gingee), whose follies and skulduggery in supporting the Deccan Sultans to put off the Aravidu Kings. The Aravidu line still had strong support from the Tanjore and Mysore kings, and the Mysore kings even avenged the Madurai Nayaks by frequently raiding into their territory and finally capturing the districts of Salem and Coimbatore in the later part on 17th century. 
And one of India’s earliest freedom struggles, called (Polygar Wars) was also fought by the Polygars of Vijaynagar line (appointed by Madurai Kings) in Tamil Nadu, of whom Puli Devar and Veerapandiya Kattabomman are honoured by the State government, with the later having State Transport Buses named after in Tirunelveli Districts and the INS Kattabomman naval centre n Tuticorin.
The magnificent Vellore Fort was used as a major base or second capital by the Aravidu line of Vijayanagara Kings. However the people in (Tamil Nadu) general do not know much about the early rulers of Vellore Fort except the Muslim Occupation and imprisonment of Tipu Sultan family.
The Battle of Toppur is considered to be one of the biggest battles ever to take place in South India, and it was Venkata III and Sriranga III, who granted charter to the English to set up the present day city of Chennai (or Madras), where Chennai is named after one Chennapa Nayak, a commander under one of the Vijayanagara kings.
One more interesting information which is totally obscure to us (Indians) or south Indians in particular is that Sri Lanka’s last ruling monarch/Kingdom of Kandy (1739-1815), (called Nayaks of Kandy) and four of his predecessors were from the Madurai Nayaks royal family. How they became rulers of Kandy would be very interesting if you go through their wiki page and links. The last King of Kandy was finally brought captive to Vellore Fort (in 1815 by the British) along with his royal family (i.e. after Tipu Sultan’s sons were shifted to Calcutta) and lived here till his last days. The Colonial government of Sri Lanka took care of their daily expenses.
And watch out in the movie Guru, one of the song sequences of Abishek and Aishwariya Rai is shot in the Thirumalai Nayak Palace of Madurai Nayaks.
--Southernstar 11:27, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: More on Aravidu Line

message: Congrats editors for bringing the article FA status :) --Dwaipayan (talk) 12:07, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Congrats

message: Great article, just one comment about the infobox. Could the third part (the precedence and succession with the arrows) be removed. It is rebundant with the last part of the infobox and also unclear and hard to understand. You have to put the mouse over the links to understand what it means. CG 14:37, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comments about the infobox 

message: The Idea is not to believe one author, but to balance the views of many authors, which is what has been done in this article. Log in and write your comments on this page, or hold your peace.
THURSTON is not the only author in the world to write about Vijayanagara Empire. Wikipedia is an Encyclopedia where the intention is not to "BELIEVE" any one author but to bring in views of many authors. Try to read more books and understand the views of many authors.Dineshkannambadi 03:23, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please dont write in upper case. Its extremely painfull to read. Again, There are many many authors, Thurston is one among them. I dont intend to go on and on about this. All views have to be balanced on the "wikipedia", not in your mind. What is your balanced view is immaterial to wikipedia. You may have convinced yourself that these were all Telugu dynasties, but thats of no importance to wikipedia. Please understand wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a news paper. Secondly, please stop towing this "British" line. They happened to be as biased as anyone, based on their own requirements. Its amazing that we still bank on foreign scholars to tell and teach us our history even after all the progress we have made in epigraphy. Is'nt this what made us a colony for 200 years?. We are independent now, so lets think independently. I have been through this with other new editors for more than a year and dont intend to go on and on. In addition, wikipedia gives no valve to opinions user's who dont log in. They are called anonymous editors. Wish you the best of luck in finding your.
Let me put down a few points so we all understand what wikipedia is, since you seem to be new here.
1. wiki is not the place to decide what is the truth, but only a place to report all possible verifyable opinions. The readers can decide what they want from it.
2. Wiki is not the place to decide whether the British were better at history or the Spanish or Germans. Thats your won POV (point of view) which is not allowed per policy.
3. If you read the article carefully, no where is an attempt made to certify whether the Vijayanagara Kings were Telugu or Kannadigas. Only the views of scholars are mentioned. Thats is how an encyclopedia works per policy. Perhaps you may want to write a book on Thurston and his views, but then you cant bring that book to wikipedia because "original research" is not allowed here per policy.
4. Wikipedia does not value opinions of anonymous editors. Only material brought in by Log in editors is valued, if verifiable. I hope this clarifies what wikipedia is. I am not trying to be rude, but more than a years worth of hard work has gone into the article, with multiple trips to Vijayanagara/Hampi. Its takes a lot of trouble to write a Featured article and very little to make anonymous arguements.
Dineshkannambadi 12:27, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

text: The mother tongue of sri krishnadevaraya is kannada. (though he spoke both languages) It was Kannada and not Tulu. The evidence for this is that his dynasty is called the 'Kannada Dynasty'. He was a man equally respected by malayalam, tamil, telugu, kannada, kodava speakers. 71.90.100.176 (talk) 07:07, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: (I removed the phrase 'translation; Victory city', because that is the translation of Vijayanagara, not of Vijayanagara samrajya. I left a possibly confusing edit note.)
Is there any evidence that the empire was called Vijayanagara samrajya during its own time?
Imc
I will try to dig up that info. However, I would be surprised if contemporary literature / Inscriptions did not call it that. None the less, it is an exact vernacular translation of the English name of the empire.Dineshkannambadi 00:34, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm fine with the existing name, but wouldn't Vijayanagar be better for users alien to the subject. Your views? --AltruismTo talk 05:55, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I have no problem with the transileration of Vijayanagara in the article.Dineshkannambadi 12:08, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The translated name

message: Please donot delete the following in the article under the 'Religion' heading
"A lot of references could be stated with respect to the Vijayanagar ruler's devotion towards their religious preceptors known as "Thatha Gurus"http://www.ramanujamission.org/Content/Srimath_Andavan_Ashramam/panchamatham.php or "Thathachariyars". This clan of Hindu Brahmin Vaishnavaitic community trace their origin from Periya Thirumalai Nambi known as Sri Saila Purna. He is the maternal uncle of the great philosopher Sri Ramanuja. Legend says that Sri Saila Purna was called as – "Thathah:" that means "The Holy Father" by the GOD of Thirumala Sri Balaji. Later they trace their origin from the cities of Kumbakonam and Kanchipuram in Tamil Nadu. These clan of people were extremely brilliant and benovalent. They adorned the court of the Vijayanagar Empire and later the courts of Nayaka rulers, Kingdom of Mysore. The most popular and important among the Thathachariyars were Pancha matha bandhana Thatha Desikan (who wrote the famous literary work of 'Panch matha bandhanam') and Lakshmi Kumara Thathachariar ( wrote "Srimath Hanumath Vimsadhi","Desika Prabandha Eedu" and 12 other literary works) who were the Chief Ministers and Raja Gurus of the Kingdom of Vijayanagar. Sri Krishna Devaraya the greatest among the Vijayanagar Rulers was guided by the Thatha Gurus. Even today the existence of this clan of people could be traced in the modern towns of Kanchipuramhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varadharaja_Perumal_Temple, Kumbakonam, Srirangam, Srivilliputtur, Sriperumbudhur in Tamil Nadu in India.http://www.hinduonnet.com/2000/11/24/stories/13240901.htm" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.8.2.69 (talk) 11:06, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: The Royal Preceptors Thatha Gurus

message: The second and third sentences of 'History' do not make sense. Do they mean that Harihara and Bukka Raya were either Nayaka or Kanadigsa? Dudley Miles (talk) 20:12, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confusing sentences 

message: as been changed, but I assumed this was discussing the languages at the time of the Vijayanagara Empire, not modern languages, and the time of the Vijayanagara Empire is a complex one in the histories of at least Kannada and Telugu and their scripts and their vernaculars and who spoke middle, versus the development of modern scripts and languages, versus priestly and upper class languages, for lack of better terms due to my limited knowledge of the topic. I would not be too quick to rewrite this in modern terms, nor to remove the term vernacular from discussing the local languages. I'm not sure if there is a justification, but it's not so straight-forward that one can write it in modern languages terms (in which case Sanskrit becomes the one of these things not like the others) without a source that says that is the case. Also, the grammar appears to lump Telugu and Tamil in with Kannada and Sanskrit, "and other regional languages," not just "and regional languages like" ....Pseudofusulina (talk) 03:01, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Section on Literature

message: I would like to post video footage of the following ruins relating to the Vijayanagara Empire located in Hampi. This video was taken as part of a documentary produced by the Global Lives Project:
ruins
I would subclip the video down to about one minute. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jordanhkatz (talk • contribs) 20:26, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adding Video Content 

message: Congrats on the Main page appearance! My only concern is the number of templates on the right-hand side of the article combined with the number of images on the left-hand side of the page. --Another Believer (Talk) 16:00, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, well done developing such an important and extensive article on a part of the world under-represented on Wikipedia. Thanks to all the editors for their hard work in getting this to FA and on the front page. Bravo! Lemurbaby (talk) 17:41, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Main Page appearance

message: I propose that Karnata Empire be merged into Vijayanagara Empire. I think that the content in the Karnata Empire article can easily be explained in the context of Vijayanagara Empire, and the Vijayanagara Empire article is of a reasonable size that the merging of Karnata Empire will not cause any problems as far as article size or undue weight is concerned.  Tentinator  06:10, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal 

message: The maps suggest that Vijayanagar empire covered all of south India. This is wrong because their armies did not stay much on the western side of the Western Ghats. So please change this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.65.69.129 (talk) 00:33, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong and misleading maps 

message: I've protected the page due to the recent edit war. This is not an endorsement (or otherwise) of the current version. Editors are requested to discuss the issues here and implement the consensus. —SpacemanSpiff 13:39, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page protected 

message: please change ((Telugu)) to ((Telugu language|Telugu)) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:541:4305:c70:5823:6997:57b1:e338 (talk) 14:39, 10 June 2016‎ (UTC)
:The link disambig requested is probably at: "King Krishnadevaraya himself composed the epic poem Amuktamalyada in Telugu" — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 15:59, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  — xaosflux Talk 16:26, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Telugu 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The flag shown in this article as the flag of the Vijayanagara Empire isn't real. As I checked crw flags and I saw absolutely nod description of a Vijayanagara Empire flag. It appears the flag was based out of this flag which was made in 2013 on wikimedia commons https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Vijayanagara_Empire.png.
I would like to remove this flag from the article as it was onlyc reated by artist as a flag proposal for the Vijayanagara Empire in 2013. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.106.142.1 (talk) 09:56, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vijayanagara Empire flag 

message: One of the reasons for sudden collapse of vijayanagara empire in 16th (1575) century was the poor  Foreign policy during the end of last decades of its greatness. This facilitated the [Islam sultanates| Islamic rulers in South Asia] to resume their march towards south Gertrude Stein,p112 . The kingdom was quite powerful in southern peninsula when Krishnadevaraya was the king of vijayanagara. After the death of krishnadevaraya, the kingdom was beginning to be partitioned into smaller parts like Thanjavur, Madurai,Gingee and Ikkeri. So it can be concluded that at its peak time vijayanagara was a weakly centralized polity.The other kingdoms that were present at that time asserted that many parts of vijaynagara empire were working independently so it could not be claimed as a fully fledged empire. Gertrude Stein(2003),p121.
After the demise of vijajyanagara empire, new kindoms of madurai, tanjavur and gingee were established and the ruler of their empires were the sons of vijayanagar miliatary commanders who declared themselves as kings.Gertrude Stein(2003),p132.
Want to add a section on decline, after understanding about the empire. I don't want to reduce the quality of the page and hence I am moving the content from wiki page to talks page. Suggestions are most welcome.
* 
::Hi Wordlciv. Much of the information you have provided already exists in the article: such as the empire being powerful during the rule of Krishnadeva Raya, breaking up into smaller kingdoms after the empires demise etc. The only new info in your content seems to be the poorly centralized polity with provinces such as Madurai, Ikkeri asserting some amount of autonomy. The poor foreign policy part can also be included. Let me paraphrase it below and you can add it in a way that meets FA standards or at least approaches it. You may add : "The decline of the empire, according to Stein, was a weak foreign policy and a growing decentralization that started even during its peak. This gave vassal states such as Ikkeri, Tanjavur, Madurai and Gingee nominal autonomy". A good place to add it is after the current citation #37, though some copy editing may be required.Mayasandra (talk) 13:26, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: This is my suggestion. We can create "sub-sections" with in the existing 'History' section as it reads. They are: "pre-Vijayanagara" or "early 14th century", "ascendancy" and "defeat and decline". Whatever you feel needs to be added into the last sub-section called "defeat and decline", you may first write it here on the talk page, giving citations in brackets like this (Stein (2003), p.xy). Let me and other users review it for flow and accuracy. Then we can add it to the corresponding sub-section. How does that sound?Mayasandra (talk) 15:54, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I can help with the copy editing here on the talk page before adding it to the main article.Pied Hornbill (talk) 16:16, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: This would be great Pied Hornbill (talk) and Mayasandra (talk). Let me work on it and then we can get the sub-section ready. Excited to see such great work you people are doing. I am excited that I am getting this opportunity to contribute :) Worldciv17 VN (talk) 18:22, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: The current "defeat and decline" portion (last 3 paragraphs of the History section) has 12 lines. We can add another 6 lines, merge & copy edit as required and keep it very summary like for the main article. If Worldciv17 VN has a lot more data from his/her sources, then we can have a separate article created as well called Decline of the Vijayanagara empire and do an include somewhere in the main article.Mayasandra (talk) 19:59, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

text:  I agree with you Kautilya3 (talk). I just thought decentralising of power can be interpretated as decline of empire. But no worries, I think this can be resolved now and thank you very much for all your inputs. Worldciv17 VN (talk) 18:24, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Decline

message: I propose to redirect Rama Raju to this page, since it doesn't have any sourced content. -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 00:06, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Why do you want to add unsourced content to a featured article? You can source it if you wish or nominate it for AfD if there isn't enough sourced material. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 12:59, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't want to add any unsourced content. I'll just go ahead with redirect, and see if there's any revert. -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 13:15, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Please explain the reason for this merge/redirect? This article "Rama Raju" needs to be deleted. There is no King from this empire called Rama Raju (not the same as Rama Raya, Raju being a caste name). As such, how does the article on a person re-direct to an empire?Pied Hornbill (talk) 13:36, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no issues. Go ahead. -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 14:35, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Concur with Kautilya3 and Pied Hornbill. The merge proposal makes no sense, nor did the original unreferenced stub article created in 2006. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 02:09, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I quote the following from the Wikipedia page of Vijayanagaram empire:
"Kannada, Telugu and Tamil had been used in their respective regions of the empire. Over 7000 inscriptions (Shasana) including 300 copper plate inscriptions (Tamarashasana) have been recovered, almost half written in Kannada, the remaining in Telugu, Tamil and Sanskrit."
"Though much of the Tamil literature from this period came from Tamil speaking regions ruled by the feudatory Pandya who gave particular attention on the cultivation of Tamil literature, some poets were patronised by the Vijayanagara kings. Svarupananda Desikar wrote an anthology of 2824 verses, Sivaprakasap-perundirattu, on the Advaita philosophy. His pupil the ascetic, Tattuvarayar, wrote a shorter anthology, Kurundirattu, that contained about half the number of verses. Krishnadevaraya patronised the Tamil Vaishnava poet Haridasa whose Irusamaya Vilakkam was an exposition of the two Hindu systems, Vaishnava and Shaiva, with a preference for the former."
Now, of course, all languages were only used in their respective regions. That's no reason to not include a particular langy that was prevalent during that time. Certainly, Kannada wasn't used as extensively as Tamil in Tamil Nadu. Duh!
Now here are the following questions that I asked to Pied Hornbill, a Wikipedia editor, but he hasn't yet responded to them, as was expected. He's the one who's been reverting any reference to Tamil in the common languages field. And I pose the same set of questions here to all editors.
A) Hornbill asserts that "common languages" only refers to the "used by the seat of power." He hasn't explained what he means by that, as yet. The remnants of the Vijayanagaram empire, the Nayakas, widely used Tamil. Vellore, one of the capitals of Vijayanagaram empire, (if capitals are seats of power, by your definition) is in Tamil Nadu. Several inscriptions of the empire at the SriRangam temple are in Tamil. King Krishnadevaraya's preceptor Lakshmi Kumara Thathachariar was Tamil. And there are other inscriptions and literature of the Vijayanagaram empire which are in Tamil. So this rhubarb about common languages being "only used by the seat of power" is something I fail to understand. Who has said so? Is there such a rule instituted by Wikipedia?
B) When Tamil authors were patronised, as is acknowledged in the page itself, from which I have quoted, and when yet Pied claims rather astutely that Tamil was used only in Tamil Nadu and not elsewhere, as if Kannada were more widely used in Andhra Pradesh, why include Sanskrit? It certainly was far more marginally used than any other Dravidian language. And furthermore, why is there even a question of Malayalam being used, when no one has produced any proof of it?
C) In Shilhara Dynasty's page in which Pied had undone several edits made by some people claiming that Marathi was a common language. He never said over there that it wasn't widely used or the language of the "seat of power" or "an administrative language." And now the claim is back. No one has done nothing about it. And guess what, the citations affixed only contains allusions to and pictures of several Marathi "inscriptions." Pied once said that inscriptions cannot be used as citations and had also a while ago stupidly asserted that there's not a single inscription of Shilhara dynasty in Marathi. And now that's fallen flat on his face. That apart. Why hasn't he or anyone else here erased that? I do not know. Why have such double standard of proof? When inscriptions cannot be accepted as citations for the use of a particular language on one page, why accept it in the other? Same is the case with the page about the Satvahana dynasty. So why is all this happening? Should all Wikipedia pages be edited the way he thinks it must be? Then why open it to contributions by the public. Are they your servants? We are here to devote our intellectual resources gratuitously. If we are going to be treated so rudely by people like him, then no point in calling Wikipedia a public website. Hell with it! Chippy pest (talk) 09:12, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use of Tamil as a common language 

message: The map used in this article is misleading as it shows as if Vijayanagara empire spanned entire south India including Kerala and Tamil Nadu. This is factually wrong. So I suggest removing the map. - 99v (talk) 08:32, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kerala was not part of Vijayanagara 

message: , in the recent cp edits on the social life you have modified my sentence to 
:  
* Reference to "Upper caste" and "Lower caste" is very contextual. Using the phrase "Lower caste" would be derogatory on certain section of the people. It alienates and propagates a view that certain castes have power and authority over other castes.  Also, the word "Upper" is ambiguous, upper by what attribute - social, economic, political, demographic, personality? 
Instead I suggest, 
:
* I don't understand this sensitivity of yours. It was you who introduced such online quotes as:"men of this Pariah caste eat beef freely, and even if it is from an animal that has died of disease" which I removed because it was not encyclopedic. Never the less, I small edit regarding hygiene cant hurt.Holenarasipura (talk) 17:30, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference to upper caste and low caste in Social life edits 

message: :
: Above paragraph has undue WP:UNDUE weight on a subject which is unrelated to the article. Per WP:FIXTHEPROBLEM, If you think an article needs to be rewritten or changed substantially, go ahead and do so. I propose that this paragraph be changed as below:
: Administration and Social Life under Vijayanagar by T.V.Mahalingam Page 260A Chatterjee, Representations of India 1740-1840, The Creation of India in the Colonial Imagination, Palgrave McMillan Publication. page 118Lindsey Harlan, Professor of Religious Studies, Religion and Rajput Women: The Ethic of Protection in Contemporary Narratives by By  page 200H.G.Rekha in the History Research Journal Vol-5-Issue-6-November-December-2019 page 2110
:Some thoughts about the growing size of the article.  should keep in mind that wiki FA's are summary articles and its important to keep it that way. He is free to add more and more pertinent content on each section so long as he creates subarticles such as "Social life in the Vijayanagara empire" and such. Such an article could contain the existing content on "Social life" and expand on each issue such as Sati, Dowry, caste system.Holenarasipura (talk) 19:30, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I also noticed that many of his citations are not complete. He has to provide year of publication, publisher and ISBN/OCLC information. Otherwise, the citations may be considered invalid and the content removed. These are wiki policies.Holenarasipura (talk) 19:34, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Alternately, he should provide full book/publication information in the format shown in the bibliography section.Holenarasipura (talk) 19:37, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

text:  I have updated the incomplete citations with ISBN, URL, publication, year details Thanks, Jaykul72 (talk) 00:20, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: There are two sentences that have a common citation. {[U|Jaykul72}}, please ensure that the citations are broken up to reflect the correct page number for each sentence. In other words, please don't club multiple, disconnected sentences with a common citation. Also, I don't think there is a need for so many citations in the lead. a couple of good ones is sufficient to prove a point. The sentences are: in the lead section "It was established in 1336 by the brothers Harihara I and Bukka Raya I of Sangama Dynasty, members of a pastoralist cowherd community that claimed Yadava lineage." and in the religion section "The interactions between the Vijayanagara empire and the Bahamani Sultanates to the north increased the presence of Muslims in the south. In the early 15th century, Deva Raya built a mosque for the Muslims in Vijayanagara and placed a Quran before his throne.". I have split it for now but you can verify the accuracy.Holenarasipura (talk) 13:50, 18 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sati paragraph violates WP:UNDUE 

message: About it Radha madana (talk) 10:20, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vijayanagara empire 

message: It should be fairly obvious why a vague and subjective statement like  is a point of view and doesn't belong in an encyclopedic entry. For one, factors such as "regionalism" don't make much sense in the medieval context, linguistic identities weren't in vogue until the Indian National movement during the British Raj let alone be the basis of polities during the this time period when they hadn't even developed properly, something which is being implied here. Neither is there anything in the body that could reasonably justify the particular line. Their administration and treatment of religion isn't any different in style from previous or succeeding Hindu kingdoms so I don't see how exactly it is that they are "promoting Hinduism as a unifying factor", the entire thing reads like modern romanticism. Tayi Arajakate Talk 13:51, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regionalism and Hinduism 

message: This topic is specifically regarding the community origin of Harihara I and Bukka Raya (Sangama dynasty) and not of succeeding rulers and dynasties of the Vijayanagar Empire.
According to the Journal of the Uttar Pradesh historical society vol.7; pt.1 and 2 (1959), published by Archaeological Survey of India, "Founders and rulers of the Sangam dynasty were all Kurubas (shepherds), and they were saivas by religion. Later rulers of Sangam dynasty such as Deva Raya II, Mallikarjuana and Virupaksha III were all Veersaivas (Lingayats). In other words, these Kuruba rulers embraced Veerasaivism". This is validated in the Journal with multiple historical evidences. It is also published in Journal of the Andhra historical Society, 1964. So taking from the above source, citing Kuruba origin of the founders is in line with  Wikipedia guidelines for South Asia "modern scholars often use antique texts as primary sources, which is quite acceptable, and these modern works can then be used as secondary sources" - TFD
Moreover, According to Ramchandra Chintaman Dhere, "Traditional sources claim that the Kurumas or Kurubas founded the Sangama dynasty, the founding dynasty of the Vijayanagara Empire. Vijayanagar's kings were Yādavas; therefore they were Kurubas; and therefore Viṭṭhal-Bīrappā must have been their original god. The temple of Anantaśayana depicts a clothed form of Viṭṭhal. At Mallikārjun temple near Mallappanaguḍī, there is a broken image of Viṭṭhal in a shrine. In Hampī, bas-reliefs of Viṭṭhal are sculpted on pillars of the Viṭṭhal temple and Kṛṣṇa temple. In Lepākṣī, there are sculptures of Dhangars standing with a blanket draped over his head, his arm resting on his staff, and his chin resting on his arm. He must be there as a reminder of the family that built the temples. There is no other reason for a human being to be carved here, when almost every other carving on the numerous pillars of these temples depicts a god or a mythological event. These two popular motifs, Dhangars and Viṭṭhal, present a clear image of the family background of the founders of Vijayanagar and the roots of their faith". Note that Dhangar and Kuruba means shepherd in Marathi and Kannada respectively. Both words are used interchangeably. Kuruba is derived from Kuri which means goat/sheep in Kannada. Dhere’s conclusion is further buttressed by etymology of the word Yadava provided by Franklin Southworth -  "Yadava has no known Indo-European etymology, may well be Dravidian, meaning "herder". Yadu means Goat or Sheep and Yaduvan means goat/sheep-herd. Term Yadava is original and the mythical Yadu is derived from it by back-formation".
Dhere further states that, "The original worshippers of Vitthal - the Gollas and Kurubas of Andhra Pradesh and Karnataka and Gawlis and Dhangars of Maharashtra, especially southern Maharashtra – are still called Yadavas in Andhra Pradesh and Karnataka". When Yadava is referred to in the medieval south Indian context it refers to one of the above communities depending on which cultural context we are talking about (Marathi, Kannada or Telugu). So for Vijaynagar (Kannada/Telugu) context, Gollas/Kurubas are referred as Yadavas. However, historians explicitly mention founders Harihara and Bukka Raya as Kurubas. Medieval south Indian Yadavas are not to be confused with North Indian Ahirs calling themselves Yadav which is a recent phenomenon. The term Yadav, to denote North Indian Ahirs, began to gain traction in the early 1920s. Dhere has clarified this in his book.
With the above references I am proposing to include one sentence in the introductory paragraph regarding the Vijayanagar founder's community origin - They were Kuruba people. I would like to get other editors/admins' opinion before performing the changes in the article. Tagging User:Tayi Arajakate. Anthony gomes 92 (talk) 00:07, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for your reply, Pied Hornbill. Fair point on edit warring, I don’t think it is worth it. I am currently in the process of writing Deccan pastoralists articles, so I am tying up their history on Wikipedia. There are multiple sources that mention Hakka and Bukka as Kurubas. Here is another one by S. S. Shashi  and I have encountered many of those, some of which are either from Historical travelers like Duarte Barbosa or arrived opinions of Robert Sewell, but that falls under Raj-Era or Pre-Raj-Era sources. As for whether caste or community origin be included in the historical empire articles, there are so many articles on Wikipedia which mentions the caste/community origins of multiple empires in Indian history over the last 500-600 years, just start with Maratha confederacy articles. I just want that to be consistent for other articles too. Also, Virupaksha and Vitthal, the gods of Vijayanagar founders, are not in conflict here. Virupaksha's forms are the two most followed gods of pastoralists i.e Birappa for Kurubas and Biroba for Dhangars. Virupaksha is a Sanskritized form of Virupa (Birappa) and Birappa is the exclusive God of Kurubas. Similarly, Dhangars worship Vithoba (Vitthal) and Biroba as brothers and inseparable companions. Their wives are also worshipped in the same manner. Dhere has mentioned all of this in his book. This even more affirms their Kuruba origin.Anthony gomes 92 (talk) 02:28, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggestion: Community origin of the founders of Vijayanagar Empire 

message: The Vijayanagara Empire gave grants to Muslim dargahs.There was a Muslim Faqir named Babayya who occupied the temple of Penukonda.The fact amazing is that the king Venkata never used physical force to remove him but allowed him have debate with a Hindu priest and he won.The Faqir was then allowed to convert the Temple into masjid.Also this temple received grants from the king Venkata during the 1639-1640 peorid.Source-K S Devi,Religion in Vijayanagara .Link=https://archive.org/details/religioninvijaya0000saro/page/190/mode/1up?q=Babayya
Please do generously consider my edit request it would only lead to collect awareness among our people.Hoping for a good response Ananda Sharmar (talk) 12:41, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Melmann 12:56, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think this sort of content is meant to be in a encyclopedia.Pied Hornbill (talk) 12:17, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Religion in Vijayanagara Empire 

message: As part of my copyedit, I am posting questions and concerns below. I started this process on the article's FAR, but this has grown too long. Instead, I will post the comments here for consideration. Thanks for your understanding. 
*"Aliya Rama Raya left the Golconda Sultanate, married Deva Raya's daughter, and thus rose to power." What does rose to power mean in this situation? Please clarify in the article. 
**reworded this line for better flow from my sources.Pied Hornbill (talk) 17:23, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I did. Just got caught up in lots of personal stuff. Will address this over the long weekend coming up around July 4th.Pied Hornbill (talk) 17:54, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: No rush, real life is more important than Wikipedia. Just making sure you saw this. Z1720 (talk) 18:05, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

text: comments above. Z1720 (talk) 16:57, 23 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I will take a look at these comments this week.Pied Hornbill (talk) 15:10, 24 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Did you get the chance to look at the above comments? Z1720 (talk) 06:19, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry got caught up. Will look into it this week.Pied Hornbill (talk) 01:16, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I have made some corrections and small additions based on comments by Z1720. With regards to the section on "Social life" being too long, I think the original issue that the FAR creator had (or someone else) was this section was not well written, so I expanded it. Anyway looking forward to more comments from you.Pied Hornbill (talk) 18:56, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  FAR copyedit by Z1720 

message: Copied from User talk:AnjaneyaRudra#August 2022
:The information which you are reverting does not match with the information given in the sources attached to it. AnjaneyaRudra (talk) 14:33, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 14:44, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: But since this is one of the two theories it alone cannot be mentioned in the first sentence. You can mention it later where it has been spoken about two theories. AnjaneyaRudra (talk) 14:59, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: @Joshua Jonathan I read the source you mentioned Dhere, Ramchandra (2011). Rise of a Folk God: Vitthal of Pandharpur South Asia Research. In that it says Yadavas were originally of Kuruba Lineage. If you read it completely, it says "Yadavas were originally members of pastoralist, cowherd groups and belonged to Kuruba lineage". Also with regards to the founders Harihara and Bukkaraya being telugu people, I read all the sources attached to it. In none of the sources I could find any sentence saying the founders were telugu people. Therefore I believe the information on wikipedia page is not right and I am going to change it. Hope that would be fine with you. AnjaneyaRudra (talk) 19:29, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: No, that would not be fine at all. There are two origin narratives, as explained in the article, and backed by multiple sources; censoring one of those origin narratives is not acceptable. Regards, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 19:44, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: @Joshua Jonathan I read those multiple sources. They do not mention the 2nd part of the information which is mentioned in the so called "origin narrative". Censoring false information is acceptable. Writing false information on wikipedia page is not acceptable. AnjaneyaRudra (talk) 20:07, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I suggest you take this to the appropriate talkpages - and take these warnings serious. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 05:35, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cowherd community 

message: This was raised a bit in the section now at the top of the Talk:Hampi page. The old town of Hampi was renamed Vijayanagara at the start of the Vijayanagara Empire, then deserted when that fell. Hampi now seems to be the normal term. Hampi (town) covers the modern settlement (pop. under 3,000).
Hampi and Vijayanagara both cover the history and the monuments, & should be merged.  Thoughts? Please comment only  over here.  Johnbod (talk) 18:08, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  We don't need both [[Hampi]] and [[Vijayanagara]], covering the same thing  

message: (1) Please note that the correct term is Mastigallu (Maastigallu) which is a stone that memorializes the woman who undertakes Sati. This term is derived from Maha+Sati+Kallu (respectively meaning Grand or Big + Woman who has undertaken Sati + Stone). This is a generic term, with the referent being the person who immolated herself (presumably) along with the dead husband (which is what Sati is about). So, it is possible to state, this is a Maastigallu of Tayavva, say, who died after her husband Sangappa died.
(2) There is absolutely no term in this context called Sati-virakal. The author must have confused the Viragallu (or Veeragallu) which is a celebratory stone memorial for a Veera (the brave) who lays down his life in the line of duty protecting his king, commander, master, etc in a war or similar other circumstance. Veeras (plural of Veera) are young men committed to the cause of protecting the powerful functionaries of the Kingdom (King, Commander, Paleyagara, Naada Prabhu, etc.) at any cost with the belief that life can be given up, if necessary, to achieve Veeramarana (a brave death) that places them in Swarga (heaven) rather than accept defeat.
There are thousands of Veeragallu's and Mastigallu's spread across present day Karnataka, Andhra, Telengana, Maharashtra, Odissa and Tamil Nadu.  
To summarize, Mastigallu is for women and Veeragallu for men.
Please set right the incorrect reference given alongside: "About fifty inscriptions have been discovered in Vijayanagara which are called Satikal (Sati stone) or Sati-virakal (Sati hero stone)" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jksuresh (talk • contribs) 17:40, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Corrections ... 

message: Why is JnK and Arunachal Pradesh in India's map are shown as disputed(different coloured) 103.240.204.210 (talk) 17:23, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  India's map