Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Shopping Centers/Archive Jun 2007

message: Wikipedia is not a directory, and for that reason we should avoid including tenant lists (including lists of the largest tenants) in shopping centre articles (except in the circumstances described below).  Tenants include retail stores, restaurants and other services (such as cinemas).  It is appropriate, however, to include a link to the centre’s website (if one exists) under the “External links” heading, where readers can refer to the store directory.  The text of the article should also refrain from mentioning specific tenants (current or former), unless such tenants are noteworthy in the context of that particular shopping centre, and the tenant references assist in establishing the notability of the centre.  For example, some references to tenants are encyclopaedic in nature and arguably merit inclusion in an article (e.g. “The ABC Centre contains the second largest IKEA store in the country” or  “H&M opened its first store in Western Canada in the XYZ Galleria”), whereas others are not (e.g. “A new Radio Shack store opened recently in the south part of the mall”).  In other words, a tenant should not be mentioned in an article simply due to its size, its location within the mall (such as in a new expansion), or due simply to its mere presence in the mall.  An article about a shopping centre need not repeat information about a particular tenant that is not unique to the mall in question and more appropriately belongs in the article on the retailer itself. For example, every mall that contains a Macy's need not repeat information that is already found in the Macy's (department store) and Macy's, Inc. articles.  Given their prominence within the shopping centre and the role they play in drawing customers, it is usually appropriate to mention or list the anchor stores in an article, as long as such stores are identified as anchors in a reliable source and the source is appropriately referenced.How's that?Skeezix1000 22:14, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed new text in bold

message: In response to User:Metallic95's suggestion above, I have created a subpage for everyone's review (Wikipedia:WikiProject Shopping Centers/Anchors and tenants).  Obviously, the text remains under discussion here.  Once (and if) finalized, we can also reference the subpage on the main WikiProject Shopping Centers page.  Skeezix1000 12:55, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Once we are happy with the draft, what do we do with it?

message: Just so we have the latest version in front of us, here is a clean copy of it.  I did a bit of minor copyediting -- others should feel free to do the same.  Only significant changes are:
*I changed the last paragraph to read that it "may be appropriate" to list anchors, rather than it is "usually appropriate", in order to address concerns raised by DGG;
*I added at reference to WP:OR and WP:V at the end.
*The second last sentence of the last paragraph (dealing with reliability of sources) is still under discussion above.
Here it is: 
::Wikipedia is not a directory, and for that reason we should avoid including tenant lists (including lists of the largest tenants) in shopping centre articles (except in the circumstances described below).  Tenants include retail stores, restaurants and other services (such as cinemas).  It is appropriate, however, to include a link to the centre’s website (if one exists) under the “External links” heading, where readers can refer to the store directory.The text of the article should also refrain from mentioning specific tenants (current or former), unless such tenants are noteworthy in the context of that particular shopping centre, and the tenant references assist in establishing the notability of the centre.  For example, some references to tenants are encyclopaedic in nature and arguably merit inclusion in an article (e.g. “The ABC Centre contains the second largest IKEA store in the country” or  “H&M opened its first store in Western Canada in the XYZ Galleria”), whereas others are not (e.g. “A new Radio Shack store opened recently in the south part of the mall”).  In other words, a tenant should not be mentioned in an article simply due to its size or its location within the mall (such as in a new expansion), or solely because it exists in the mall.An article about a shopping centre does not need to repeat information about a particular tenant that is not unique to the mall in question and that more appropriately belongs in the article on the retailer itself. For example, every article on a mall that contains a Macy's need not repeat information that is already found in the Macy's (department store) and Macy's, Inc. articles.Given their prominence within the shopping centre and the role they play in drawing customers, it may be appropriate to mention or list the anchor stores in an article, as long as such stores are identified as anchors in a reliable source and the source is appropriately referenced.  Not all sources purporting to identify the anchors in a mall are necessarily reliable or authoritative; in some instances, there may need to be some discussion and consensus among editors as to whether or not it is appropriate to rely on a particular source.  Anchor lists that are not sourced may violate Wikipedia:No original research and Wikipedia:Verifiability.Skeezix1000 13:02, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Latest version of text

message: OK so it seems lists of anchor tenants aren't the way to go.
What makes Mall of America a B-Class article? It is flagged as unreferenced. It has long lists which don't do it any favours. What I am trying to work out is how to improve articles like Westfield Penrith and a justification for removing the list of tenants, and the sort of information I should be looking for to improve the article and get it toward being a B or better class article. (and so on for other Aussie westfields / Marketplaces).
I have gotten onto using a template for suburbs, something similar to this "suburb skeleton" but for shopping centres would be great.Garrie 06:05, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Goal article