Talk:Gypsy (musical)

message: The Wikpedia article on trivia states: "This page in a nutshell: Lists of facts, as found in trivia sections, are better presented within the context of the text rather than in a section of unrelated items."
reference: WP:TRIV.
JeanColumbia 12:01, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree.  If the facts are of interest, they should go either in "background/history", "productions" or a "Cultural impact" section.  -- Ssilvers 01:55, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Trivia

message: I've often thought it would be good to have the quite interesting background of this play/musical in the article--but I just don't know how to write it. I have some of the reference books I think I need to refer to, and have read one or two others. I think I could do a first draft, perhaps Sunday or Monday, if no one else wants to. I need to re-read some material, perhaps get the Arthur Laurents book again.JeanColumbia 11:11, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Genesis/Background

message: ::I took a deep breath and wrote the "Background". I decided to keep it short, just showing, in effect, who wanted who, trying to show the influences between the principals. There's a wealth of material about rehearsals, out-of-town tryouts, etc, and if anyone wants that material, it could certainly be added. My main source is, as I referenced, the Zadan "Sondheim & Co."
→Feedback, discussion?JeanColumbia 14:13, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it's very nicely done.  There may be more to say that can be gleaned from other sources, but this is a good, brief explanation and adds a lot to the article.  -- Best regards, -- Ssilvers 15:13, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Notes on "Background"

message: As I write this (10:37am (EDT), April 22, the film and tv section has been moved to the very end of the article, after references, and external links. I suspect this was not meant to happen. Therefore, I am moving that section to immediately after "Stage Productions" (which is where the section has been). 
Should anyone want this  section to be at the very end of the article (after "references" and "external links"), your choice.JeanColumbia 14:42, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Turned out to be a minor edit situation, easily resolved (a code "</ref>" had been dropped somewhere along the line). Case closed.JeanColumbia 14:48, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Article structure

message: I wonder if we're going overboard with the awards.  Is it necessary to list the Theatre World awards?  Best regards, -- Ssilvers (talk) 15:37, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think so (since I did it!). Those awards are important because they are sometimes the first award for the new performer, and I think a "first" is important. If you folks think they are not important, best to include that specifically in the Musical Theatre structure article (and then get one of the programming whizes to make a program to delete them from all of the articles they are in.) I shall not put any others in, but I will not remove them, awaiting the consensus.  (Just occurred to me: 1) would you also question the listing of the Theatre World Award on an individual performers' article? 2) Would you delete the entire article on "Theatre World Award" as being not notable?) JeanColumbia (talk) 16:15, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, Ssilvers--OK, let's leave Theatre World Awards in, at least for now, but I must admit I don't care for the look (and readability) of some of the long Awards/nominations sections. I don't have time right now, but shortly I'll try out some other formats--columns are good, probably the best I can think of off-hand. JeanColumbia (talk) 17:37, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Well, it looks great - you're an html wiz!  But I think it is harder to see, at a glance, who won and who was nominated.  I can't tell, for the original productions, if all of those were wins or nominations.  How about putting winners first in bold and then nominees in *not* bold, and then the footnote could clarify that winners are in bold and other nominees in not bold?  -- Ssilvers (talk) 21:40, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This actually motivated me to create a more general format for all these large award sections popping up in articles. I've made a mockup here. Take a look and tell me what you think! (And yah, I know it's a little hard to read, that's been my biggest concern so far.) I used a massive example over there to see if it would work and it also is hard to read. But take a look, tell me what you think! --omtay38 22:05, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Mwah!! to Mr. Omtay38! Keep trying, looks very interesting so far. 1) I agree, it's a little hard to tell winners from nominees (personally I don't care much for footnotes, I like it to pop out); 2) can an ordinary mortal make or add to or alter one of these tables (for example, a semi-computer literate Medicare-eligible senior? No one get insulted, that's ME...)JeanColumbia (talk) 22:34, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: How about a pre-note? (if i put the note at the top of the table instead of the bottom). As for the ease of formatting, I'm hoping to figure that one out after we get a nice, visually pleasing, format down. If all goes as planned, it should be as easy to ad as any normal infobox. It should.... :-) --omtay38 22:38, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Awards

message: Took a stab at it. Thoughts? --omtay38 20:47, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, it looks great - you're an html wiz!  But I think it is harder to see, at a glance, who won and who was nominated.  I can't tell, for the original productions, if all of those were wins or nominations.  How about putting winners first in bold and then nominees in *not* bold, and then the footnote could clarify that winners are in bold and other nominees in not bold?  -- Ssilvers (talk) 21:40, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This actually motivated me to create a more general format for all these large award sections popping up in articles. I've made a mockup here. Take a look and tell me what you think! (And yah, I know it's a little hard to read, that's been my biggest concern so far.) I used a massive example over there to see if it would work and it also is hard to read. But take a look, tell me what you think! --omtay38 22:05, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Mwah!! to Mr. Omtay38! Keep trying, looks very interesting so far. 1) I agree, it's a little hard to tell winners from nominees (personally I don't care much for footnotes, I like it to pop out); 2) can an ordinary mortal make or add to or alter one of these tables (for example, a semi-computer literate Medicare-eligible senior? No one get insulted, that's ME...)JeanColumbia (talk) 22:34, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: How about a pre-note? (if i put the note at the top of the table instead of the bottom). As for the ease of formatting, I'm hoping to figure that one out after we get a nice, visually pleasing, format down. If all goes as planned, it should be as easy to ad as any normal infobox. It should.... :-) --omtay38 22:38, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Reformatting

message: I think it's premature to add the 2008 cast to the table, because one or more of them could get sick prior to the opening, the revival itself could get cancelled, and a whole host of things could go wrong.  Look at what just happened with Lone Star Love.  Just my opinion.  -- Ssilvers (talk) 17:08, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm laughing here--Lone Star Love! I don't think it's premature, they are selling tickets as of yesterday. I can imagine many things that could go wrong in life, but this not going on with Patti/Arthur is not one of them (a bit of a joke). However, I don't care, will defer to anyone on this. (At least I got practice in adding to the chart--not something I'm good at.) JeanColumbia (talk) 17:18, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: As requested, I removed the 2008 Broadway revival cast from the cast list chart. (Note that I am removing my own work.) JeanColumbia (talk) 13:48, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: 2008 production cast; [[WP:CRYSTAL]]

message: I reverted (twice) the edits to this song list, on 4/23 & 24/08. The newly added edits seemed to be in non-standard format (using ... instead of "—"), added odd characters, and showing "MONTAGE" (that may be on stage but is not part of the song list); adding reprises, etc. I prefer to stay with a reliable source WP:RS (IBDB) (which is WP:VERIFY). This is a well-established song list, I cannot see any reason to think it would change! JeanColumbia (talk) 23:25, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree.  The changes seem to be erroneous.  -- Ssilvers (talk) 05:04, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Song list

message: There was too much analysis of Rose in the Lead, so I moved it down.   Eventually, there should be a Critical response section and an analysis section that describes the reviews and gives more analysis of the show and its characters.  Best regards, -- Ssilvers (talk) 16:08, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Good, I wanted to move it but I couldn't figure out where to put it. (The Frank Rich article I referenced (from May 2003) gives a nice analysis of the show, for future reference. I also find the Martin Gottfried description and analysis in his book "Sondheim" useful.)  By the way, when the Tonys are announced next week, will someone be willing to add the "2008 Revival" award nominations to the Award table?JeanColumbia (talk) 16:19, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we've got it looking good (and, thanks to omtay38 for the pretty table). I added a few names to the Drama Desks. I don't know how this would look with "small", but I'll fool around with it later, no more time right now. JeanColumbia (talk) 19:39, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Analysis; critical response

message: To answer the question (is this the 1st production in London--1973) more fully. I use as basic references these books: Craig Zadan, "Sondheim & Company", 2nd Edition, 1986; Martin Gottfried, "Sondheim", 1993, 2000; Merle Secrest, "Stephen Sondheim, A Life", 1998, and . Both the web site (sondheimguide.com), the Zadan (pp. 53-54) and Secrest (p. 140) confirm that the 1973 production was the first production in London. I don't see any mention of any other productions in the Gottfried. I think that is sufficient per WP:VERIFY. JeanColumbia (talk) 13:06, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree - sorry, I asked too quickly, as my google search confirmed that this was the "long awaited" first production in London.  The reviews at Amazon for the cast album are funny, if you want a chuckle.  -- Ssilvers (talk) 13:14, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Productions

message: Does this information suggest to you that we should say something about recordings of songs from Gypsy?: http://www.sondheimguide.com/gypsyrec.html#Songs   Sometimes we say something like "Songs of [x musical] have been covered frequently, most notably by [x performer/band] and in [x film/TV show, etc]." -- Ssilvers (talk) 13:24, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Songs recorded

message: Here is what Frank Rick wrote--and Sondheim said-- about the ending:
:"Yet the end of Gypsy is not entirely bleak. "Louise comes out a star and forgives her mother," Mr. Sondheim says. "There is hope for her. Rose does confront who she is in 'Rose's Turn.' There is a catharsis. It's not Rodgers and Hammerstein, but you feel maybe the mother and daughter will come to an understanding and maybe triumph over Rose's craziness and Louise's bitterness." Reference: New York Times article written by Frank Rich, May 4, 2003: . I think this refutes the recent statement (that I deleted) ("...although the show ends with Louise walking away laughing at Rose").JeanColumbia (talk) 22:59, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: The ending

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121019192817/http://www.playbill.com/news/article/101346-Pattis-Turn-LuPone-Is-Mama-Rose-in-Ravinias-Gypsy-Beginning-Aug-11 to http://www.playbill.com/news/article/101346-Pattis-Turn-LuPone-Is-Mama-Rose-in-Ravinias-Gypsy-Beginning-Aug-11
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20151222130708/https://www.cft.org.uk/news/gypsy-christmas-broadcast-on-bbc-four to https://www.cft.org.uk/news/gypsy-christmas-broadcast-on-bbc-four
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150417142822/http://www.redding.com/entertainment/local-date/actress-relishes-stage-mom-role-gypsy to http://www.redding.com/entertainment/local-date/actress-relishes-stage-mom-role-gypsy
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120108010832/http://www.playbill.com/news/article/157382-Gypsy-With-Tovah-Feldshuh-Opens-at-Bristol-Riverside-Theatre-Dec-8 to http://www.playbill.com/news/article/157382-Gypsy-With-Tovah-Feldshuh-Opens-at-Bristol-Riverside-Theatre-Dec-8
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130311060656/http://www.lasalle.edu.sg/Events/EventDetail.aspx/Gypsy to http://www.lasalle.edu.sg/Events/EventDetail.aspx/Gypsy
*Added  tag to http://www.playbill.com/news/article/146357-Will-Barbra-Streisand-Star-and-Direct-New-Film-Version-of-Gypsy
*Added archive https://archive.is/20110316150746/http://blogs.courant.com/curtain/2011/03/streisands-gypsy-film-project.html to http://blogs.courant.com/curtain/2011/03/streisands-gypsy-film-project.html
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