Talk:Sudhan

message: References are posted again in correct way.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Kayharris (talk • contribs) 03:54, 18 January 2009
How do Sudhans and rajputs dominate AJK Politics, when the majority of the PMS and Leaders have been Jatts like CH Sultan Mehmood, Ch Abdul Majeed, Ch Yasin, Ch Ali Mohammed, Ch Yusuf, Ch Noor Hussain, Ch Shahid Afsar etc..  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jattpunyal (talk • contribs) 20:46, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: Could someone explain why this image of a house is relevant to this article about the Sudhun tribe.  In the meantime, I have moved the image so that the text of the lead section is not squashed between two images (see MOS:IMAGES for the guideline mentioning this).  Astronaut (talk) 11:51, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sudhun Gali image 

message: When including quotes, it is useful to separate them from the flow of the text so they can be more easily read and identified as a quote.  However, I think it is preferable to write your own words and cite the source text as a reference.  Astronaut (talk) 12:02, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quotes in lead section 

message: """Literacy rate in Azad Kashmir soars to 78 percent, leaving the rest of Pakistan behind [16]. The Sudhun tribe in particularly is well educated composing of high literacy rates both among its female and male members."""
I only came across this by accident, but I'm glad I did, the Wikipedia editors have been notified about the false information and hate that has been written in this article. Allow me to explain.
* Literacy Rate
There are several districts within Pakistan which have above 90% literacy rates just thought I would point that out. And doesn't this just sum up just how ridiuclous this article is? Secondly, define "literacy", according to the UN. Third, what does Azad Kashmir have to do with Sudhuns?
* Geographical Distribution
How can the geographical distribution of this family be determined when an official number is not even mentioned? New York, California? They didn't get there because Obama invited them, try and explain why and how they are in America. It has something to do along the lines of IMMIGRATION and MAKING ENDS MEET!
* False Information
The history seems sketchy, who wrote this article I want to talk to you or at least by e-mail because I've heard something else. This just seems like wishful thinking.
The overall article is just so fabricated and patethically written, as if they were trying to sell the family. Please learn to write Wikipedia articles in accordance to the rules, primarily by not fabricating information and claiming things which have not happened in the past. We're just embarassing ourselves!
Jawad Khan  —Preceding unsigned comment added by MirNaveed (talk • contribs) 19:29, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anti-Pakistan and Sensationalism of this article 

message: Origin of Sudhan,s are controversial because there is no clear evidence of their origin whether they are converted to Islam or  they belong to a pathan tribe Sadozai. There is no Authentication book who talked about the sudhan,s origin.
But how sudhan,s tolds about their self's that that are belong to Pathans(Sadozai) seems misinformation because it Erises several questions
1) Sudhans in Azad Kashmir Exceeds 8 lakhs population .Research about Sudozai tribe in Afghanistan shows that that have not much population. They are near about 3 lakhs So how it is possible that that tribe which you originally belong to is less then from its branch tribe?
2) one evidence about their conversion from Non Muslim to Muslim is that in Jammu and Kashmir Sudhan Sikhs and Sudhan Hindus are leaving so its impossible that if they are originally Muslims(Pathans) so how Muslim Sudhans are converted to Sikhs or Hindus.
3) Sudhans tells that they migrated from Afghanistan from 2 or 3 centuries ago But other pathans tribes also migrated to kashmir in that time like Afradi,Yusafzai etc.But they still speak Pushto and have pushton culture but when we search about Sudhans we never found a single man who can speak pushto even from their 2 or 3 generation elders.Their culture is totally diffrent from pathans So how its possibe that a tribe is totally diverted from its original culture in 2 or 3 centuries.
 
4) Sudhans stated that thay are decedent from Sodu khan but how its possible that population from 1 men reaches up to 10 lakhs in just 2 centuries
5) pathans have tradition that they love their home land  and they visited their home land and they have kinship's there even they migrated to USA from last 5 centuries but we do not find this characteristics in Sudhans they have not any kinship there and not even any Sudhan visited Afghanistan
So it is important to find the answer of these Question thus we can reach to Sudhan,s origin and also A research project comprising DNA lineage study has been commenced to determine the ancestry of the Sudhans.
Brahmin ancestry: According to Col. (Rtd) Dr. Khalil Khan now deceased, a Dermatologist from Rawalakot, Azad Kashmir. "Sudhans were converted to Islam by Aurangzeb Bahadur Alamgir the sixth Mughal ruler".[4]
“
By origin the Mohyals are certainly Saraswat and still take wives from that group in Gujarat, while in Rawalpindi the five superior sections (Sudhan, Sikhan, Bhaklal, Bhog and Kali) of the Bunjahi Sarsuts used to give daughters Bhimwal(Bhibhal) Mohyal Sarsuts and occasionally to other Mohyal sections.[5]
”
The name Sudhan also occurs in the Mahabharata mythology, as a descendant of the vedic rishi Angiras, this is also further corroborated by the reference above, although there is no reference of the tribe itself claiming descent from the mentioned Angiras's son Sudhan. Also in the Gazetteer of Rawalpindi, there appears no mention of the Sudhan's Mohyal or Brahmin connection. There are Hindu Sudhans, mostly living in India-controlled Kashmir, and Sikh Sudhans in Indian Punjab and Kashmir  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 39.41.84.190 (talk) 05:28, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have any reliable sources to support your statement? My gut feeling is that this article is somewhat lacking in many aspects but I keep getting waylaid dealing with stuff elsewhere. If you can provide some decent sources, in accordance with the preceding policy to which I have linked, then perhaps we can try to make a start on improving matters. On the other hand, if it is just something that you know then we cannot use it here, sorry. - Sitush (talk) 01:36, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Theories of origins

message: Why does "There are Hindu Sudhans, mostly living in India-controlled Kashmir, and Sikh Sudhans in Indian Punjab and Kashmir." require 10 sources? I cannot see any of them online, although some probably do exist on the web but are poorly formatted in our article. - Sitush (talk) 01:51, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Overciting 

message: Who put this living person thing, Sudhan is a clan or caste not a person
EagleEye 23:50, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: And your reliable sources for this are what? Does it even relate to improvement of the article which, after all, is the sole purpose of this page? - Sitush (talk) 12:54, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

text: Your opinion of their origins counts for nothing here, sorry. Our articles must be verifiable by reference to reliable sources. - Sitush (talk) 11:35, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Livinb Persons 

message: I had a brain fart when reverting some content concerning the 2005 earthquake, calling the place Rawalpindi when I meant Rawalkhot. Regardless, I am still unhappy with the content. This is not a reliable source and we need a page number for this. - Sitush (talk) 09:26, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't say that the report was unreliable - I asked for a page number. The website is unreliable. - Sitush (talk) 17:09, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Earthquake 

message: As with the earthquake stuff, much of the detail concerning Azad Kashmir etc appears to border on coatracking - taking the Sudhan connection to an extreme in order to finagle a mention of something that really is not relevant to the article. Statements such as "although Kashmir state acceded to India, they were able to 'liberate' a portion called Azad Kashmir (Free/Pakistani controlled)." are particularly troublesome because of the weasel wording and punctuation. - Sitush (talk) 09:30, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: *Says who? - Sitush (talk) 17:08, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: *People in Rawalakot and inhabitants of AJK all revolted against the Raja it is a known fact.  Maybe you should look into reading a few books by people in AJK.  I have read the books and I have visited AJK and have talked to the people and have the book by Sardar Ibrahim the leader of the Sudhans in AJK and the First President of AJK apparently he says so, and so does General Aziz who is a sudhan and was Chief of Pak Army Staff.  Maybe they are all brainwashed but this is the fact.  There is a place in AJK called Taralkhel, it is named so because the Raja's army skined sudhans alive for refusing to pay taxes. Trueblood (talk) 02:16, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: *Your comments are just that, comments. Please read WP:V, WP:OR and WP:RS. Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 19:41, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: *These are not my comments, I am not sure why you take this so personally.  What I will do is get the cititations from the various books and you can verify them.  There is nothing personal in this, maybe the Indian viewpoint is different, but if so than you should put that here, otherwise the verified claims from Sudhans in Sudnuti and Poonch and Rawalakot must be accepted, as you know there are always two sides to an issue, and that is probably the case here, all I am saying is that people in Azad Jammu and Kashmir have their own viewpoint, otherwise they would not have formed there own government.  You must read the book by Sardar Ibrahim Khan, the first President of AJK, in fact every year the President of AJK comes to the UN General Assembly Trueblood (talk) 02:27, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: *Until you provide the sources they remain just your comments. I have just realised from your latest message that they may reflect some sort of potential nationalist agenda. I have no connection to South Asia at all but you need to be aware that articles such as this are subject to sanctions, in part because of past POV-pushing by contributors with nationalist agendas. It is best to tread lightly because of this: as elsewhere in life, people's interpretations of the policy vary and some will issue blocks etc without much provocation. Aside from WP:RS (which you now say you will address), it seems likely that you'll need to understand the issues surrounding WP:DUE. Hope this helps.PS: please can you not add your signature on a separate line. It makes things difficult to follow and you should just add it at the end of your message. - Sitush (talk) 06:25, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: *You'll note, , that I have re-indented this in agreement with convention. Drmies (talk) 01:54, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Azad Kashmir 

message: I've just reverted Trueblood's restoration of poor content. Despite an edit summary claiming that the statements were sourced, many were not & those that were had issues relating to reliability and to completeness - issues that had been tagged for a long time.
We're going to need sight of those tagged sources and explanations regarding reliability, especially for those sources from the Raj period. - Sitush (talk) 12:22, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Not sure what you mean by not properly sourced, do you mean sourced by the Government of India, obviously the sudhans beat the hell of the Indian Army that is why there is an Azad Kashmir
Adnan1216 (talk) 01:19, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I mean sourced in accordance with WP:RS. And original research such as your assessment of AK is definitely inappropriate. - Sitush (talk) 01:22, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

text: You have written a whole paragraph in defense of the AJK government source, as if it was being used to cite the whole article, whereas it was used only for the claim that four individuals belonged to this tribe. The link to the AJK site in the article was dead/invalid, but I have searched the AJK site separately and couldn't find any mention of "Sudhan" tribe. -- SMS  Talk 04:13, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

text: A Self published source and an opinion piece. Why don't you take some time and read Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources. -- SMS  Talk 07:19, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

text: *, there seem to be numerous variant spellings of Sudhozai and so far I've not been able to determine the extent, if any, of synonymity. Some sources do say things like "Sudhan (Sadhozai)" and those are will provide the spellings ... but it looks like there may be more than one group using the names. I think we'll have to keep digging for more info. - Sitush (talk) 09:56, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

text: I didn't call rediff self something, I said it is an opinion piece. What is "hidoo"? And it is never about Winning or Losing. And please get familiar with Meatpuppetry policy. -- SMS  Talk 21:09, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sourcing 

message: Sudhan/ Sudan most of this is right but this tribe did migrate to the punjab state and is considered one of the principle Jatt or Jat clans in punjab now. I do have a source to prove this as the  census back in 1911 http://www.jatland.com/home/Sudhan please give me access to this as I have most of the information from the older generation (my grandfather) as well who can give me all the right info to add. This all started with the partition of India and Pakistan and the sikhs caught in the middle of this the Sudhan tribe was stranded in between, most escaped to punjab,Jammu, and the rest stayed in Kashmir in the area closest to the border now known as poonch. Thank you. the information is right just change the following sentence "Sudhans (also known as Sudhozai) are one of the major tribes from the districts of Poonch, Sudhanoti, Bagh and Kotli in Azad Kashmir" to Sudhan/ Sudan (also known as Sudhozai) are one of the major Jatt tribes that originated from the districts of Poonch, Sudhanoti, Bagh and Kotli in Azad Kashmir.
GursewakSandhuu (talk) 17:57, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: This is not the right page to request additional user rights.If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article.Please note that neither what you "know" or what your grandfather "knows" are acceptable as you are not reliable sources and your information is not verifiable - Arjayay (talk) 18:46, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 27 March 2016 

message: Sudhan is a jatt caste in punjab in mohali dist mostly belongs to agriculture
Xingh123 (talk) 20:41, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: as you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 06:37, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 4 May 2016 

message: is it possible to search the source of sudhan tribe thriugh DNA? If yes then who can do this and when.?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.65.218.234 (talk) 13:04, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source 

message: Why my edit has been removed from the page Sudhan, these is imported thing related to this group which should be mentioned, things like their rule in Army and their background. Robert Olivia (talk) 21:23, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: See the section immediately above. Note also that other contributors have expressed some concern that there may be too much in the way of glorification going on here. Even if you have decent sources, we should strive for balance. - Sitush (talk) 21:27, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

text: Again, see the section above. - Sitush (talk) 21:50, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit and Sources removed by @Sitush 

message: I've just removed a statement that included statistics from the 1838 and 1941 censuses. It was sourced but has two problems, based on my knowledge gleaned when writing articles such as :Census of India prior to independence. The first is that I am not aware of a census taking place in 1838; the second is that the 1941 census was incomplete.
Are we sure that the source actually contains this information and, if it does, are there any qualifying statements relating to it? - Sitush (talk) 06:03, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  1838 and 1941 census 

message: We have a massive quote in the article now and I think it may fall foul of our "fair use" criteria. I think we should be paraphrasing. - Sitush (talk) 06:03, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fair use quotations 

message: Claims on Sudhans being Afghans is totally fabricated one. Even the real Sadozais in Afghanistan not even one fourth of their population and are rather an extended family than a clan.
Please keep in mind no-one is superior or inferior. Feel proud of what you are born no lies on race. What  I know of them is Sudhans are Mohaal Brahmins or closely related to them. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 04:21, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: It may well be fabricated but we say it is a claim, not a fact. - Sitush (talk) 03:59, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ancestry claims 

message: 117.220.140.127 (talk) 17:55, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. MadGuy7023 (talk) 18:11, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 21 October 2022