Talk:Tip/Archive 1

message: The article states that "In Sweden, a tip of the lowest denomination may be given as a sign of approval to a waiter who has given exceptionally good service, but never anything else." (emphasis added).
I very much disagree with this statement. First of all, it is obviously incorrect since it states that Swedes never tip anything but the lowest denomination, which contradicts an example below. What's true, however, is that the service charge is always included in the bill, so you're not expected to tip for that reason, but if you get good (and not just exceptional) service I do believe it's common to tip more than just the lowest denomination. This is especially true for fancier restaurants: I don't think anyone leaves a Michelin Guide listed restaurant with nothing but a lowest denomination tip, even though you might do so at your local tavern.
What do you think of a change such as: "In Sweden the service charge is included in the bill, but a small tip may be given as a sign of approval of the waiter."?
==== Sources ====
* A web poll by Aftonbladet (obviously non-scientific, but nevertheless illustrative with close to 50000 participants): showing that 46.6% tip 10% or more (it also shows that 31.4% never tips), published in relation to an article about a waitress who got a $4000 Porche as a tip, which is significantly more than the lowest domination. (Text is in Swedish.)
* The official Study in Sweden states that the service charge is included in the bill, but that it's normal practice to give a small tip if you have been treated well.
* The official guide to Stockholm states that in Stockholm people generally round up 10% or more.
Woseph 07:14:19, 2005-08-20 (UTC)
:* One month and no comments, so I changed the article. Perhaps someone could take a look at the Finland and Taiwan section: I'm guessing that "tipping is practically unheard of [in Finland]" is a gross overstatement (due to Finland's proximity, both geographical and cultural, to Sweden). -- Woseph 08:31, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sweden 

message: * A web poll by Aftonbladet (obviously non-scientific, but nevertheless illustrative with close to 50000 participants): showing that 46.6% tip 10% or more (it also shows that 31.4% never tips), published in relation to an article about a waitress who got a $4000 Porche as a tip, which is significantly more than the lowest domination. (Text is in Swedish.)
* The official Study in Sweden states that the service charge is included in the bill, but that it's normal practice to give a small tip if you have been treated well.
* The official guide to Stockholm states that in Stockholm people generally round up 10% or more.
Woseph 07:14:19, 2005-08-20 (UTC)
:* One month and no comments, so I changed the article. Perhaps someone could take a look at the Finland and Taiwan section: I'm guessing that "tipping is practically unheard of [in Finland]" is a gross overstatement (due to Finland's proximity, both geographical and cultural, to Sweden). -- Woseph 08:31, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources 

message: The article says that tipping in Singapore is not expected and that cab drivers will sometimes round down. I wonder if this is an older custom? I was there earlier this year(2005), riding upwards of 30 taxis during my stay, and not one cabbie offered to round down, or to give change back when I rounded the fare up. Ditto at restaurants, no one said anything like "don't tip" to me the entire month. Perhaps it's because I was a westerner? (Westerners apparently pay more in DRAs too...) ++Lar 01:23, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Singapore 

message: Re: removal of this section: I think this article does need to reflect the anti-tipping movement, as reflected by the recent decision of Per Se in NYC to eliminate tipping.  []
I would respectfully submit that if the prior 'objections to tipping' section was POV, which it well may have been, it is more constructive to re-edit and improve it, rather than merely to delete it with no comment other than "POV, Speculative."  That itself is no less POV.
From the Wikipedia NPOV page: (Wikipedia:Neutral point of view)
"Lack of neutrality as an excuse to delete
The neutrality policy is used sometimes as an excuse to delete texts that are perceived as biased. Isn't this a problem?
In many cases, yes. Many of us believe that the fact that some text is biased is not enough, in itself, to delete it outright. If it contains valid information, the text should simply be edited accordingly.
There's sometimes trouble determining whether some claim is true or useful, particularly when there are few people on board who know about the topic. In such a case, it's a good idea to raise objections on a talk page; if one has some reason to believe that the author of the biased material will not be induced to change it, we have sometimes taken to removing the text to the talk page itself (but not deleting it entirely). But the latter should be done more or less as a last resort, never as a way of punishing people who have written something biased."
RudolfRadna 25 September 2005 15:37 (UTC)
I agree with the above statement.  Regardless of what anyone's feelings on tipping may be, I think we can all agree that it is not the place of a Wikipedia article to force a particular opinion on someone.  This section needs to be edited to more accurately reflect it's heading.  That is to say, it should cover the fact that some people object to the practive of tipping, and give the reasons why.  If someone wishes, they could add a separate paragraph with legitimate refutations, but let's keep the obviously emotion driven opinions to message boards.
JohnnyRuin 11:39, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Objections to Tipping 

message: since as the article currently reads, tipping is not done in Wales, Northern England and Scotland, probably Northern Ireland (excepting by foreign visitors) -is it about to time to say tipping gets less common the further you get from London.GraemeLeggett 15:04, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The UK 

message: I have a question.  I was at a restaurant, in a party of 2, and a gratuity of 18% was added.  I inquired as to why, and I was told it is their policy.  When I brought up the issue of bait & switch, I was told there was a sign outside--there was not.  The manager refused to take off the gratuity.  I called and left a complaint to be given to the general manager.  I was also told their policy was to only add gratuity to parties of 15 or more.  
On the following visit, when I got my check, I noticed a 15% gratuity was added.  The same uncomfortable discussion was repeated with another assistant manager, and the gratuity was finally taken off.  (I tipped $5, or about 15% anyways).  I called once again to complain, and was told I would be banned from the restaurant.
My questions are:
-Isnt this an issue of bait & switch, where one price is advertized, and another price is switched in with a 15-18% surcharge?
-Can a restaurant ban me?  They advertisze, aren't they making a unilateral contract with the public (everyone, including me), and therefore denial of service to me would be in violation of that contract?
-What are some effective manners in which I can persue this unjust, and potentially illegal business practice?
Ztsmart 19:40, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Something definitely doesn't seem right. An establishment run that way simply wouldn't be worthy of my business, let alone repeat visits. Snailing a detailed, factual report to Zagat and to Triple A as well as your local Better Business Bureau seems like the thing to do. knoodelhed 11:52, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

text: I've been working in the restaurant business for many years, and on the rare occasion where I've had managers allow a forced grat, it is usually due to the customers behavior. If the customer is rude or troublesome, and the server goes to the manager and pleads their case, occasionally a grat will be placed on the bill to compensate the server. This is very rarely done at most establishments. Resturants that will do it usually have higher tip outs to bussers and the bar, lus taxes taken out for a percentage of your sales. For example, if you check was $30, the grat is 5, the bar gets $1, the busser gets $1, and the goverment gets $.75. I agree that forced gratutity is rude, and perhaps not the best customer service option, but i've found it's better then have a waitress run into the parking lot and scream at cheap customers. Hopefully you found a better place to eat. --Poetrybetween 14:42, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Forced Added Gratuity

message: It seems that 90% of the "edits" to this page are vandalism and corrections thereof. Is there any what that this article can be protected and any edits must be approved before being displayed. I know that isn't how wikipedia normally works, but with the amount of vandalism occurring here (mostly either by resentful customers or by greedy servers who think their tips will increase by putting lies in the article) I think it would be appropriate.   —Preceding unsigned comment added by Njsustain (talk • contribs) 11:25, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The level of vandalism isn't nearly high enough to justify protection. You can ask at WP:RFP, but it will almost certainly be rejected. --GraemeL (talk) 14:40, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism

message: Please, If we want Wikipedia to be considered something serious, I don't understand why deleted wrong information is recuperated again. I writed below in this discussion why is this information delated. Somebody writed this again:
In fact, the Spanish term propina actually connotes bribery in Spain, not respect, as it means in Mexico .TrainingOnLine.com. "The impact of language and culture on job safety." 2006-01.
Reasons:
1. The term propina DOESN'T mean bribery in European Spanish. (And it doesn't mean that in any kind of Spanish, that statement about Mexican Spanish is not true too, probably is somekind of slang added by somebody that probably most of mexican are not agree with)
1.1 I'm from Spain and It's the first time in my whole life that I heard that tip means bribery, it's a complete nonsense.
1.2 I demostrate it adding the definition of 'propina' (tip) by Royal Spanish Academy's dictionary.
propina.
(Del b. lat. propina).
1. f. Agasajo que sobre el precio convenido y como muestra de satisfacción se da por algún servicio.
2. f. Gratificación pequeña con que se recompensa un servicio eventual.
3. f. Colación o agasajo que se repartía entre los concurrentes a una junta, y que después se redujo a dinero.
Translation
Propina, from latin propina
1. Gift added to the arranged price as sign of satisfation for the given service.
2. Little gratification to recompensate an ocasional service.
3. Light meal or gift that was given to the audience in a meeting, and that afterwards was converted to money .
Where is bribery here?!!!
2. Even accepting that tip means bribery in Mexico (thing that I doubt) In this parragraph we are talking about 'Tips in Spain' so this statement is out of place.
3. If we read the reference added to justify that tip means bribery in Mexican Spanish, We can this: Saran used the word “propina,” which in Mexican Spanish means tip, but in Portuguese the same word means “bribe.” . The reference says that tip means bribery in Portuguese not in Mexican Spanish.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.125.30.81 (talk) 11:08, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Tips in Spain, Wrong Information that I've deleted has been added again, DON'T ADD IT AGAIN

message: A citation request has been made for the following:
"Customers have a right to negotiate, alter, or refuse charges which were hidden until the bill arrived." 
I don't think this is specific for restaurants. Any time you charge someone for goods or services, there must be an understanding of what the charges will be. If you have ordered from a menu without service charges specified, you are under no legal obligation to pay for said charge. As this is generally the way things run in the world, I don't see why a specific reference is needed. It seems more like a waiter or restaurant owner annoyed that he doesn't have the right to bilk people out of money they didn't agree to give in the first place. So, is it okay to remove the request? Better yet, does a waiter out there have a reference that says it's okay to charge people for charges that had been hidden????? Njsustain (talk) 16:00, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Hidden Charges

message: It would be nice if there was some mention of the US tax laws related to tipping. I don't know for sure (so I won't put it in the article), but many states consider the tips one receives at work as taxable income, even though a tip is not mandatory, and even while those same states allow large amounts of money (about $12,000/year) to be gifted to individuals tax free. 
I've also heard in some news reports that some states 'assume' one will get a 15% tip and then tax someone for that amount even when they receive no tip, thus forcing the worker to pay taxes on money they never received.
:I added a taxation section with some references to the relavant IRS publications.  If there are differences state by state, that would be a nice addition as well.--Rtphokie (talk) 21:28, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tipping and Taxation 

message: Perhaps a mention of the common (equitable) 'tip sharing' schemes in various industries, such has coctail waitresses sharing 50% of their tips with the bartenders, or waiters sharing 25% of their tips with the cooks.
Some of these might be overblown, or urban myths. But tax, wage, and labour laws related to tips are very important to some people.
::::Tiki God 19:27, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tip Sharing 

message: From the artice:
In general, in the European Union and other parts of Europe, tipping is rather uncommon, although there are regional variations.
This seems completely untrue. In almost every country in Europe where I've lived or where I've been to (except for Iceland and possibly Italy), a 5-10% tip is normal -- but not mandatory --  in restaurants. Tipping for other services depends on the country you're in, but cab drivers generally do get tips all over Europe.
=== Spain ===
the Mexican Spanish term propina actually connotes bribery, not respect, as in European Spanish.
The reference cited does not mention European Spanish at all, but Brazilian Portuguese.  I've seen nothing indicating this is a Mexican term, or that the Spanish do not use it, or that the Spanish prefer a different term.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.99.16.65 (talk) 01:22, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Europe 

message: the Mexican Spanish term propina actually connotes bribery, not respect, as in European Spanish.
The reference cited does not mention European Spanish at all, but Brazilian Portuguese.  I've seen nothing indicating this is a Mexican term, or that the Spanish do not use it, or that the Spanish prefer a different term.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.99.16.65 (talk) 01:22, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spain 

message: It is not correct that tips in the UK are optional. This could give tourists the wrong impression.  Many restuarants and bars in the UK keep their pay particularly low in the hope that customers will tip the staff.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.86.161.186 (talk) 08:58, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: UK

message: it is completely untrue about the drinks we are cheaper than france and the netherlands with the drinks and tipping is done when your satisfied with the service most of the time a keep the change offer
---Tipping is rare here in Belgium. Only when you want to impress the waitress or you are well off or a tourist. Leaving the change is something that happens often though.
213.214.57.217 (talk) 22:51, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: belgium

message: I happen to be a waiter in norway, and tipping is quite common, in fact, a lot of credit card machines (in mostly restaurants and some bars) Have the amount of the bill on the screen and under that it reads: total=blank a method which "forces" the customer either to leave the same amount or add a tip (eg: beløp=340 total=360) the beløp is the cost of the meal (or drink) and the total is the total amount you want to pay. Speaking from experience and other waiters the norm is around 7% of the bill 10% being a very good tip and no tip being frowned upon. In bars the change of drinks (one or two NOK) is normally left. It's important to mention that credit card usage is extremely common in Norway even with small amounts of money.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.203.24.151 (talk) 00:19, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Norway

message: "For enhaustic service, at least HK$10 may be needed". 'Enhaustic' is not a word, but I cannot correct this because I don't know what word was intended: possibly 'enthusiastic' or 'exhaustive'?
Hopefully not "encaustic" 172.132.26.86 05:37, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I tagged the Hong Kong section as unreferenced. If no information is sourced in a couple weeks, the section should be removed. -Agyle 15:22, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hong Kong 

message: I`m not sure why it is mentioned "Tipping is not the custom in Japan and it is almost never done."
I am currently working in a Japanese hotel, and let me say that I recieve lots of tips from japanese people. And I stress, this is not a case of being confused between Japanese and Western custom, it is a genuine Japanese tip.
Tipping in japan is strange, I will add. It is by no means expected but is seen as a voluntary action to either express personal wealth, status or just to be nice. Japanese when they do tip, tend to tip big. That is, anything from ¥500-10,000 (US $5-100) is common for a porter/bellboy, reguardless of the number or size of bags. Though it is somewhat rare that I or anyone I work with to recieve anything less than ¥1,000 ($10) from a single customer. They tend to come from either younger upwardly mobile sorts or from the elderly, who seem to tip out of a kind of grandmother/ grandfather complex. Asside from that, its just about impossible to spot who is going to tip but usiually its in the range of 1/20 to 1/50 customers.
This is kinda highlighted  again in the hostessing industry, where you can be expect to be tipped several hundred dollars (equivelant) just for bringing a drink. While this is certainly a very special circumstane it certainly highlights the culture of japanese tipping. I myself have been tipped ¥10,000 ($100) a number of times so far, often just for a single bag.
Asside from that though, I can`t really speculate about other industries without having worked in them. It would be good if anyone else with any working experiance in Japan can comment further.
:The text currently says "...it is almost never done in casual restaurants,..." and thus does not contradict that hotel tipping may be more common. I'm not sure if it was that way when you added your comments. In any case, no reference is provided for the section, and I added unreferenced and disputed tags. Someone familiar with Japanese culture may better able to find an accurate, up-to-date source. Customs seem to be changing in much of East Asia, and even recently-written U.S. sources, relying on past publications, may be repeating obsolete information. -Agyle 15:38, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "In Japan, for example, tipping is considered an insult both to the owner of the establishment and to the server."
Although tipping is not a general custom in Japan, nobody generally thinks that tipping is an insult. This description probably relies heavily on personal experience. I guess people usually just decline or don't know how to react to tipping.
In addition, as may have discussed, tipping is sometimes a manner, say, in traditional Japanese hotels where employees bring food to the room, clean it up, and make futon. Hrkoew (talk) 19:33, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  No tipping in Japan? I dissagree! 

message: I disagree with what is written under India. Its written about Indian Americans and not about Indians in India.
In India you do have to leave tips at restuarants where service is provied,not at self service ones. Tips also paid at Valet Parking, home delivery and many others. The term Bakshish means tip
:No you don't have to tip. I've lived in India all my life and never tip. Most Indians don't like to pay tips and will not do so if given a choice.Bhagwad (talk) 17:05, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  India 

message: Noticed the cleanup notice on Hong Kong. One immediate change should be to "waiters may feel weird..." There has got to be a better way of putting this, but I'm not even too sure what it means. --Mucus 16:23, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hong Kong 

message: I removed "except when a customer wants to show appreciation for exceptionally good service" which does not reflect local custom. Tipping is simply never ever expected in Iceland and locals never ever do it. --D. Webb 00:05, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Iceland 

message: IMHO, most of this article, such as the detailed list for the U.S., looks like either original research or opinion, none of which are encyclopedic. This topic, by its very nature, is a bit fuzzy; however, if Wikipedia is going to give such detailed tipping percentages, it should either cite published empirical studies about tipping habits, or published opinions by notable sources (at least a printed tourist guide!). Itub 02:23, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. There are lots of unsourced tipping percentages and statements that are too POV. Commonly unsourced words to look out for in this article include "usually", "appropriate", "commonly", etc. Added a few of the appropriate templates to warn the reader --Mucus 05:08, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree with this, too.  I'll go ahead and take out some parts which are unlikely to be adequately sourced in the foreseeable future.  -- Alan McBeth 03:59, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Also quite a bit of the use of the second person "you" and "your", adding the appropriate template --Mucus 05:17, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  References needed 

message: Could the phrase "services sector professional" be changed to something less pompous and more accurate? Lawyers are professionals. Physicians are professionals. The person in the lavatory who brushes my coat for a small tip is not a professional in the same sense. Neither is the person who brings my food and drink. Being a valuable and essential employee does not equate to being in a profession.
: Agreed. Consulting with Professionals, the majority of employees noted on this page do not meet any of the characteristics listed. --Mucus 22:58, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Service Sector Professional 

message: For the two that removed the template for inappropriate person, I refer you to [] and Second person. This article is littered with phrases like "...you will..." or "...you should..." or the word "your". This is clearly not-encylopedic, nor appropriate for Wikipedia so please leave the template up till this is corrected. I can only assume the problem is that most are only familiar with first person and seeing the article is devoid of it, assume that the appropriate cleanup has been done. Thanks --Mucus 18:40, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Second Person 

message: I do not like this paragraph:
Sometimes while at a bar with good drink specials, like $1.00 draft beers, your tab could only be $10.00 for the entire night. When in a situation like that, take into play the amount of time you were sitting at the bar or cocktail waitresses table. A 20 percent tip is not exceptable if you took up the spot for hours upon hours. Tip on the time you were there, the service and think about what your tab would have been if it wasn't for the drink special. Bartenders and servers are depending on your tip to make a living, meanwhile you're having a grand time getting sloshed for ten bucks.
It's written way too casually for an encyclopedia, and doesn't cite sources, and misuses "excepted" ("accepted" should be there.) The sentiment is correct, though. I'd like to rewrite it to something along the lines of "Sometimes drink specials or coupons will significantly lower one's bill compared to the official or menu prices; in these circumstances one should deliberate on the duration of the visit and the service besides simply considering the bill's total." But I don't have sources, either, that's just my opinion about tipping at bars (or anywhere one sits around for a long time and isn't spending as much as one would without deals.) Thoughts?...Mkilly 17:33, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "At bars" in US 

message: Not sure what to call this, and in any case it would count as original research; but in the US it's been my experience that auto mechanics doing above-and-beyond and/or after-hours service, get either a six-pack or a case of beer (depending upon service).  Although fairly common, it's appreciated much more than the obligatory 15% restaurant tip.  I'm sure this happens in other industries as well.  Considering if there's any reason to/way to include this in the article?--Justfred 17:13, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Barter Tipping

message: From the article:
In France, service charge is always included and tipping is usually not expected, though most people will leave 1 or 2€ after a typical restaurant meal.
I have no idea how common it is, but 10% of the bill, in restaurants (not in fast foods, and seldom in family restaurants -), should be rather common... (probably more, for good service, if you spilt your glass or something like this, or in expansive restaurants). In bars, moreover if you are seating at a table, tipping is somewhat expected... (depending on people and the place, you might be seen as stingy, if you don't tip, though most of times, moreover if you are friendly, it should not be a problem at all... it's the same as in restaurants, in fact... and as in restaurants, if you spilt something, or for good service, you might give a bit more...).
And as with other countries where tipping is not uncommon, you might tipp in hairdressers (there is often a dedicated box -as they often share the money between the hairdressers), in hotels (depending on services and price of the stay), for food delivery services (usually, 1-2 euros -proportional to the bill, though). For movers, this probably is very common, even expected (with the addition of some cold beer, most often). In restrooms, if there is someone (pretty rare... mostly in some big department stores), or a box (it's becoming more common, notably in family restaurants and fast foods), it is usually written the amount commonly given (0.20-0.50 euro; if there is someone, it might even be compulsory -if so, it is written). In taxis, though not mandatory, tipping should be pretty common, moreover if the driver helped you with your luggages, if you made him wait or if there is traffic jams (as they are paid depending on distance, not time), if he helped you to get on, or if your destination is a bit hard to find... In garages, tipping also is common, for any services by employees.
Sometimes (quite rare), it might be written that the employees do not accept tips (mostly in some restaurants and hotels).
Most of time, it should not be seen as rude not to tip, if you are friendly, and do not cause any problem (in this case, if the employee ask or wait for a tip, *he* would be seen as rude, by most people).
Most of time, you can simply tell the employee to keep the change (even if a bit lower than a normal tip), or leave, without mentioning it (even if the employee left the change on the table), in restaurants and bars.
Many young people, if they do not work (or did work) in places where tipping is common (or know well, someone who do), do not tip, and find it strange, if not annoying (annoying as in "I paid the bill, and I don't have that much money"). If the employee is young too, he probably won't mind at all (expect maybe in bars, though, as said above, if you are friendly and do not cause any problem, there should not be any problem with not giving a tip), but older employees might take it a bit less well (same as always, however, if you are friendly and do not cause any problem).
For firefighters (probably refused as a policy, but I'm not sure at all), policemen (probably illegal, and will anyway most probably be refused strongly), postal service (except for private transporters, for really big parcels, though it should be rare, and might be refused, as a corporate policy, by the employee... for delivery of machines and furniture, be it by craftsman or or chain/department stores, a tip might be expected, or at least common... though, depending on people, the employee might refuse it), garbage collectors, and gardians and cleaning women if you live in a building, no tip is given, but it is expected you give 5-10 euros (for really good service, up to 15-20 euros), at the end of the year -sometimes, it starts at the end of october, as most people seldom give money to everyone (some people might even get rather angry, when five or six people come to sell calendars, when they come too soon after the previous one came...)-, when then come sell calendars... (though it is not strictly seen as rude not to give anything -though commonly accepted that you should give something-, except, often, for gardians and cleaning women, in buildings -well, if you are not at home, no one will insist, though).
I won't include these informations in the article (well, they should be reformated, anyway), as I'm not really sure about how common this is, and as I'm really not into money things (though it should be clear I like to spend time talking about the most random things ^_^;). I hope someone can make any use of this comment.
Mathieu Bonnet 13:21, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tipping in France 

message: Unknown what tax rules that employees of Sizzler locations are subject to, as orders are generally not attributable to a server, but they generally take ok care of me and I leave a tip of around 15% of pretax. knoodelhed 20:58, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sizzler 

message: I found a couple of books on tipping via Google's book search:  The Itty Bitty Guide to Tipping By Stacie Krajchir, Carrie Rosten; and Tipping Guide for Gratuitous Folks By Milan E. Wight. I don't have either book, but they look like they might be useful references for this Wikipedia article. Itub 18:17, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Books on tipping 

message: All the complaining on this page. Rather than everyone posting exactly what they want to happen and expecting someone else to do it, why not DO IT YOURSELF? Bennyboyz3000 09:29, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh you are so right! But could someone else put in hebrew characters the hebrew words that appear in the article? Thank you. 88888 14:25, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: You lazy buggers

message: The section on Italy appears to be copied from .⇒Bayerischermann  - 17:50, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Copyright violation

message: Ideally we can spin out each region into its own article eventually (Tipping in South America, etc.), which will make the article much easier to manage, but we need to get sources for all these random inclusions first.
Also, there should be a solid section on the "tipping controversy" (as highlighted in Reservoir Dogs), the debate over whether it's a valid practice or not. That's a lot more interesting than a list of every country on Earth. tilde 06:54, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Ideally

message: I'm in the US and a friend of mine insists that if, at a restaurant, you are served by the "proprietor of the establishment" tipping is not required.  To me, this makes some sense, assuming "proprietor" to mean the owner or someone who receives a significant amount of the profits.  But this usually happens at Steak 'N' Shake, when they are understaffed and a manager serves us.  First of all, I don't think a Steak 'N' Shake manager qualifies as a "proprietor" as they are hired workers and not shareholders.  They are paid (my friend would say overpaid to do almost nothing, but then again, they seem to always be hiring managers, so there must be a major downside to the job) to be managers, and if they also serve food to the customers, I think they deserve a tip, because that's not part of their job description.  So who's right? (User:VidTheKid not signed in) 69.95.28.97 04:07, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: More info requested: tip the proprietor or not?

message: Frequently, this article uses statements like "It is not appropriate to"... I've worked in many fast food establishments where tip jars are available. Many of those establishments have employees who are nigh-simultaneously ringing up the customers, preparing their food, dealing with customer service complaints, restocking beverages such as soda fountains, wiping down tables, etc. And I've had many a late night where my food was brought out to me at KFC or Jack-in-the-Box. The tip in this instance is an incentive for horrendously underpaid US fast food workers to make the food healthily, maintain a good attitude and respond to customer complaints with tact and promptness. Obviously it's hard to establish things like this, but at least qualify statements somehow, say by referring to an accepted guide to etiquette and noting that particular opinion on who should be tipped. Anytime an article begins to talk about oughts and shoulds rather than whats and whos, it's violating NPOV. 209.77.79.7 02:12, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Universal Etiquette?

message: I notice that tipping for taxis is mentioned for some countries, but not the United States.  JNW2 01:28, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *Support. Because this is a point of confusion for many people (foreigner or not!), someone with a reference should add this. -kslays (talk • contribs) 21:00, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Taxis in the United States

message: An anonymous user or users keeps changing the restaurant tipping rate for the US from 15-20% to 10-15%, even after I've added a citation for the 15-20% numbers. We may need to consider requesting semiprotection. -- Mwalcoff 22:59, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anonymous user changing United States 

message: All unsourced information (much of it dating to before February 2007 with no improvement) has been removed. All new edits must have appropriate sources or they will be removed too (see Jimbo Wales' zero information recommendation). That's the only way to keep this article accurate. —tilde 03:37, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A three-revert dispute arose after that, and tildebee backed down on a major purge of unsourced material. The person who reverted the purge said that unsourced info should be tagged. Tildebee pointed out that many Fact tags were in place for months. His purge left all sourced material in place, but removed all country sections that had no sources. I've been working on adding sourced material, and have found some of the existing unsourced information is completely wrong. I tend to side with tildee's purge. If someone wants to use the existing material to work on finding sources, they can load a pre-purged version from the history tab. -Agyle 05:56, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Page clear

message: I delete this "In fact, the Mexican Spanish term propina actually connotes bribery, not respect, as in European Spanish." I have 3 reasons:
1.- If in this point we are talking about spain, then we are talking about spain, not about Mexico.
2.- I'm spanish and i can affirm that the word "propina" doesn't mean bribery, it's the first time in my whole life that i heard something like that. The word "propina" in European spanish means "tip", not bribery. Maybe in Mexico means bribery, i don't know, but not in spain.
3.- The reference cites Portuguese not spanish.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.125.27.123 (talk) 15:52, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tips in spain 

message: In the section "Circumstances of Tipping," the following appears in the third paragraph: "For example, a service charge for all patrons that is automatically added to the tab with no tipping the rule in Brazil." I'm not exactly sure what it is trying to say, but there is some kind of grammatical error. -Nik-renshaw (talk) 20:57, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Circumstances of Tipping 

message: I think it is impossible to create a reliable encyclopedia article with the tipping customs of each country. There are many unreferenced claims and even those that do contain references may not be using reliable sources. A site like Wikitravel is more appropriate for that information. I propose we limit the article to discussing tipping in more general terms.  Barrylb (talk) 16:14, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If we don't abandon the per-country, I feel that we should at least severely restrict it to that handful of countries for which there are semi-reliable sources. It is clearly impractical to have a least of some 50-odd countries, when the bulk of it is clearly hearsay and is unsourced. Has anyone been watching this page long enough to have any idea where all of it even came from? I say we chop it down. And perhaps Barrylb is right, in that the individual tipping customs of nations are not something that really belong in an encyclopedia. Nik-renshaw (talk) 02:38, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, I do feel like a generalized discussion of tipping by location is appropriate. I feel like the best thing would be boiling it down by religion, region, or some other broader division than country, and then tracing its differences among these regions/cultures from a historical perspective. Nik-renshaw (talk) 18:02, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've implemented a bold solution.  I created an article fork called Tipping by region.  That list was just too long and was overwhelming this article.  If someone cares enough, they can clean up the new article.  If not, we can nominate it for deletion.  If this was a bad idea, feel free to revert.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 20:15, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would like a generalized discussion too but there is the problem of lack of good references and original research. If we can find any good quality references I would include a section in the main Tip article. I appreciate the bold solution about creating an article fork but I think I will nominate it for deletion. Barrylb (talk) 21:34, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal that we abandon the per-country tipping customs 

message: This tipping article represents a US opinion on tipping.  It is almost customary to tip everyone whom serves you in the US.  I live in Australia and I have visited many countries including the US, the US takes tipping to the extreme. Most if not all countries do not tip anyone at all. I therefore believe this article is biased to the US perspective of the tipping custom.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.171.76.166 (talk) 05:26, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That is why the section "Regional differences in tipping custom" was added with a link to Tipping by region. Wikipedia isn't here to catalog every variation of everything one might find, but to discuss topics of encyclopedic interest with verifiable information. So, tipping was discussed as an institution as a whole (mentioning that United States requires more tipping than other countries). Nik-renshaw (talk) 17:08, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article does not represent a worldwide view of tipping. 

message: While this article mostly focuses in tips like gratuity, part talks about tips that are a form of advice, such as a stock tip Rds865 (talk) 16:14, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: gratuity versus advice

message: Why not list people who are tipped besides waiters. Rds865 (talk) 16:14, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: People who are tipped besides waiters

message: This section just seems like a huge boring list, it is probably duplicated in the external links. Can it be eliminated?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sajendra (talk • contribs) 04:36, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tipping by continent needed? 

message: Should the etymology just relate to the meaning of tip the article is focussing on?  Tips (gambling) exists and could house the relevant sentances stating it's origins.
Rmonger (talk) 14:02, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggested moving of part of tipping etymology

message: I was tought that TIPS was an acronym for "To Insure Proper Service."  Am I wrong?  If I'm right, perhaps someone should add it, but that the "S" was dropped in the USA.  --- W5WMW (talk) 23:30, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  To Insure Proper Service 

message: but this article blows
I am not deliberately trolling...but most of the content is just a lot of anecdotal evidence, opinion and personal belief.
for instance:
there isn't even a section outlining the history of tipping:
*where did it start?
*who started?
*why did it begin?
etc  etc
Likewise there is no discussion as noted on the philosophy/psychology/science of tipping:
*why is it done?
*what are the social pressures on the tipper?
*why do service industry workers expect tips?
*what are the economics of tipping? sic credit crunch/recession/growth and boom times etc
If this article is going to be even considered to be remotely encyclopedic I would think that some of these suggestions were addressed.
Again to be taken seriously questions must be addressed rather than opinion dressed as fact.
Hence tipping is a pervasive and morally questionable activity that puts the entire onus on the tipper to contribute an additional financial amount above and beyond the agreed charge because of the pressure of social expectancy and not whether the amount is justifiable or deserved. As the services that a 'tip' are random and appear to be based on precedence - then what makes a tip acceptable?
Eg why don't we tip a builder who built a house? Plastered a wall? Why is always unskilled jobs? For instance carrying some hot food to a table or bags from a car to a doorway? An activity that any able-boded human should be expected to do?
Questions, questions question....
Why should someone who carries you bags get a
:Interesting comment, though it ends rather abruptly. Good points, so why don't you look up some of the information and add it to the article, with references? Or you could request some citations for alleged facts that you find questionable. 
:While history may be useful, it is not absolutely necessary to have the background in an encyclopedic article. As for philosophy and psychology about it, there are plenty of articles that do not delve into that facet of the topic but are still excellent. 
:Finally, not to make this personal, but if you want to show that you are not a troll, it's probably good to start with something other than "but this article blows." Just a suggestion.Njsustain (talk) 18:08, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  the bottom line... 

message: This article is in ENGLISH wikipedia. That doesn't mean it should focus on English speaking countries, but it should be written in standard English, and should be verifiable. A lot of the info from random non-English speaking countries seems to be completely anecdotal, besides being written poorly. 
I don't intend to clean up the writing for countries I know nothing about, but I will delete sections that are dubious and poorly written.Njsustain (talk) 13:06, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  English, please