Talk:List of best-selling video games/Archive 3

message: According to this article, Pokemon Red and Blue sold 20 million units while Super Mario Bros. 3 sold 18 million, so in essence, isn't Red and Blue the best selling console game of all time? I was going to change this article myself, but I didn't want to because I might have missed something. Can somebody please look into this?
:That is because the 20 million is for two games combined. However, it is obvious that at least one of them (if not both) has sold over the current minimum of 8 million required to make the list. Unfortunately, we do not have total sales data for the individual games that would put them over the required mark. If that information is ever discovered, then the one(s) that have sold enough should be added. Zomic_13 23:06, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm all for addings Pokemon Red and Blue. I was just explaining the technical reason for why I believe it is not.Zomic_13 12:19, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: They were two games combined... thats the biggest problem with this list. When someone who doesn't understand video gaming goes down to the bottom and sees the franchises they see stuff like "Final Fantasy - 68 Million" and then "Diablo - 17 million" and they think "Well Final Fantasy must be way better than diablo!" However, Diablo sold 17 million over the course of 2 games, 1 expansion pack, and a second expansion pack blizzard is so ashamed of that they dont even advertize it on their website. Whereas Final Fantasy has sold 68 million over the course of what, 15 games?! So game for game diablo is outselling final fantasy under the table. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by DurotarLord (talk • contribs) 14:24, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why isn't Pokemon Red and Blue the best selling console game of all time?

message: It's been a good month now and nobody got a list of games for the wii yet, cause i know atleast the new zelda sold close to a million by now.  So just put in a wii category thank you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.17.28.62 (talk • contribs).
:No reference has been made public stating any Wii game has sold as many. Without verification, we can't add it. -- ReyBrujo 22:51, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, we know that the Wii has sold more than 1 million consoles in North America. - A Link to the Past (talk) 23:31, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wii Sports shouldn't be added, if it keeps going like this, it will be the best selling game of all time but NOT by player's choice. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.121.232.213 (talk) 08:28, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That is why we separate "bundled" and non-bundled games. Konman72 09:35, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem is they sell it on japan and its almost at a million 201.241.191.76 04:23, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where is the wii category? 

message: SimCity and SimCity 2000 almost certainly sold more than 1 million copies. It's hard to find out how this is broken down by platform and game, though. This page at EA  for instance puts sales of the original SC at 7 million across all platforms. And this article  has the entire franchise at 20 million. If someone could dig up more concrete figures, please add them to the article, as SimCity is a definite omission. Rhobite 23:09, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Simcity? 

message: I reverted the latest change. Working with tables is pretty hard, especially when using references. Also, having to manually modify the position number everytime you add or remove a game is pretty hard. Thanks for the change, but I don't think it is really useful, considering the amount of modifications this article gets every week. -- ReyBrujo 16:04, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New table format 

message: According to NPD itself, CNBC reports are wrong (you know, 2 million Xbox 360, 1.8 million Wiis, etc). Since I guess this data is used everywhere in Wikipedia, I am leaving a notification here, to let you know on Jan 11 the "correct" data will be released. Note that this data comes from a reliable source nevertheless, so it can stay, at least for now. -- ReyBrujo 13:08, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Even if they were actually from NPD, we wouldn't have been able to use them in Wikipedia because the video (while it was still available for unregistered users) specifically stated that they were preliminary estimates.  I and some others have had to revert these figures the past few days, hopefully this new revelation from gamedaily will spread to all the other gaming sites that used those CNBC figures, such as Kotaku and IGN.  Dionyseus 13:14, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: CNBC sales information is wrong

message: Who is the first to notice something strange about this top 20 published, apparently, by The Independant? ;-) -- ReyBrujo 12:30, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, Gamasutra also picked the information up :-) -- ReyBrujo 17:57, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Ha, basically they plagiarized the list from our article and didn't bother crediting us.  Dionyseus 18:04, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Now Joystiq has posted "London's Independent's list".  I posted a comment, I hope Joystiq notices that the list was taken from Wikipedia.  Dionyseus 22:59, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks to http://www.gamespot.com/news/6164012.html we got the link for The Independent article: http://news.independent.co.uk/world/science_technology/article2141636.ece. I am adding a  even if they did not credit Wikipedia :-) -- ReyBrujo 02:20, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Simply because they have the same results as this Wikipedia article does not necessarily mean they copied it from us. Wikipedia is not a primary source. We collected the data from various sources and we aren't the only place that keeps track of the totals. They could have just as easily copied the data from other places or (although probably unlikely) gathered the data themselves. I'm not saying they didn't necessarily copy it directly, but unless we have some sort of proof we can't just assume that they did. Zomic_13 16:03, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, it seems you are new here :-) Wikipedia is not a primary source, indeed. We aim to be a tertiary source. However, press usually quotes us (see Wikipedia:Wikipedia as a press source 2006, in example). Most times they credit us, sometimes they do not (there was a case where a german newspaper copied a lot from the german Wikipedia, and after demonstrating that, they got the reference back, and I think the journalist fired). This is an obvious case when they did not. Yes, there is a possibility that The Independent did not copy us, but having the same twenty positions with the same numbers, where we reference each of the numbers but they do not, knowing that we had had this top-franchise list here for a lot of time (I think since November we have the same positions, but slightly updated the numbers), and the article in the newspaper appeared on January 10, over a month since we have stabilized the article is pretty suspicious. When someone creates an article, we have a bot that does a search to see if the same words appear somewhere else. If so, the article is deleted. In this case, a simple Google search demonstrates that those names and numbers appear in Wikipedia (and Wikipedia mirrors, of course). This is a pretty clear case of plagiarism, I would say, but since I am not a litigious man, I will wait until they are "offended" for the template here and ask us to remove it. And when that happens, I will ask them to demonstrate which sources they used to build the page. Why I am taking a "passive" stance? Because I think they acted in good faith: found the information somewhere, not necessary Wikipedia, and copied it. Had they known about the GFDL and all that stuff, they may have credited us. I will mail them later to see what they say, though. -- ReyBrujo 16:33, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Independant best selling franchises 

message: Please note that the sales figure I posted for this game reflects sales of Wii version only. GameCube sales were not (and should not be) factored into the Wii amount and vice versa. Zomic_13 01:22, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess

message: I don't understand why the split is necessary, nor how it makes it more accurate.  As I understand it, the franchise list is simply a list of the best selling franchises, why say Madden 51 million plus 5 million for Madden NFL 07, when you can say Madden 56 million?  Why say Zelda 47 million plus 1.5 million for Zelda TP, when you can say Zelda 48.5?  Dionyseus 05:18, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Because we must demonstrate we did not make the information up. Look at Wii Sports, we don't just say XX and then put all the references together, the casual user would not understand how we got that information. In Zelda's case, the 47 million has three references, all of them showing the 47 million. In other words, if you put two references after a number, both references refer to that number specifically, not to the sum of both, because the casual user does not know that). -- ReyBrujo 05:28, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why does the Zelda franchise number have three references for the same 47 million figure?  Just one is required.  I propose we use one reference for the 47 million figure, and one reference for the Zelda TP sales figure, so it'd look like: The Legend of Zelda (48.5 million)  Dionyseus 05:51, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, we must tell the user which values exist in every article. Otherwise we would have something like Wii Sports (1.91 million)[1][2][3][4][5][6], and if the user clicks the 5th, he will get some 50k units only and will ask "What the heck?" I agree that we should remove some from the Zelda series, probably leaving the most reliable one. But we can't "simplify" things. -- ReyBrujo 16:11, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know, it just looks wrong to me, makes no sense to me to say Zelda sold 47 million and then say that Zelda TP sold 1.5 million for an approximate total of 48.5 million, when it would make a lot more sense to just say that it sold 48.5 million and provide the two simple references that proves this.  I'd like to get some commments about this from other people.   Dionyseus 19:53, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: When you find a paragraph that reads This happened on December 11, 2006[1] when everyone was watching TV.[2] you immediately know that the first reference states the date, and the second the action. If you find the same paragraph as This happened on December 11, 2006 when everyone was watching TV.[1][2] both reference 1 and 2 are giving out information about date and action. Otherwise, I am completely fine with leaving Twilight Princess out until we get a new reference stating the franchise total (I always feel that updating franchises by adding up sales is just wrong). -- ReyBrujo 20:24, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Dionyseus on this one. I think that the franchise total should not be separated like it is now. I think it should be added together (so for Zelda it should list 48.5). As long as we have a cited source I see no reason why it can't be continually updated. Also each franchise only needs one citation that states the amount. Three that state the same figure is unnecessary (as in Zelda's case). Multiple sources are only necessary when providing figures from different regions for a total. Zomic_13 23:59, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So, we throw references and hope the casual reader knows what to expect from each of those? Great. -- ReyBrujo 03:21, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Ok, here is my real reason for keeping them separated: technically, adding up numbers is considered original research: Editors often make the mistake of thinking that if A is published by a reliable source, and B is published by a reliable source, then A and B can be joined together in an article in order to advance position C. So, either we keep all numbers clearly separated, or keep one of the numbers (in the case of Twilight Princess, either keep it separately, or leave the 47 million reference and wait until someone publishes the 48.5 million mark). -- ReyBrujo 03:30, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  About the "Splitting Madden and Zelda franchises to give more accurate information" 

message: Those Sega sections are now pretty shitty and incomplete. I'm far sure there are a lot more million sellers for the Sega consoles than just that little bunch remaining. The lists of before appeared more representative. I mean, Mega Drive reached 30 million consoles sold, and Sega Saturn shelved a lot of software sales just in Japan. Something should be made about that, instead of simply data cleaning like it has been done. (Mr Wesker 19:46, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Find references and add them. Unluckily it is hard to come across references for old games, because sites just did not exist back then. -- ReyBrujo 19:49, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sega sections 

message: I have a big doubt here: if you buy Burning Crusade, can you play it, or you need the original WoW too? If you need the original, you can't consider it a game, but instead an expansion, and thus should have numbers added to the original WoW (much like what we do with Starcraft). Opinions? -- ReyBrujo 17:30, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It does need the original WoW. I'll change this now. Zomic_13 20:46, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade

message: Several games in the PC list state that their sales figure includes sales of the game for other systems (such as The Elder Scrolls III and IV, as well as F-15 Strike Eagle). I think that sales figures for PC games should just be for copies of the PC version sold, just as games for consoles are just for that console. Therefore I'm going to remove F-15 Strike Eagle (because it only has 1 million across four different platforms, not 1 million on PC), but I'm going to leave the Elder Scrolls games for now until an alternate source can be found. Zomic_13 21:18, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Keeping PC Game Sales separate from  Console Game Sales 

message: According to this [Article] Nintendo revealed that 19 titles they released this year sold more than one million copies. This breaks down to 3 Wii titles (which we have, assuming they are including Wii Sports), 3 GBA titles (I believe we are missing these three), and 13 DS titles. Currently we have 7 DS titles listed from 2006, which means we are missing 6. I know we are missing a lot of titles, but I am just pointing this out as it is confirmation of a number of missing titles. Zomic_13 02:30, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  At least 6 Missing DS Games, 3 Missing GBA

message: The World of Warcraft statistics listed are incorrect.  They are listed as 8 million but this page is about sales, i.e. of boxes.  Blizzard press releases state that they have 8 million subscriptions.  That is people paying monthly for accounts, which you can be assured bought the box.  But not everyone who purchased the game is still playing.  So the sales figures for the WoW box are much higher.  Wjmurdick 02:01, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The statistics are correct, though, because we clarified that there are 8 million subscribers. If they released real sales information, we would use it, but for now, we can only use this. -- ReyBrujo 02:25, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  World of Warcraft Statistics are incorrect 

message: The article in wiki for Warcraft III states 4,5 million copies pre ordered and 1 milion additional sold in the first 2 weeks. clearly it is more than 1,000,000 copies. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.240.234.38 (talk • contribs).
: The wiki page for Warcraft III does say this, however we are unable to state that amount here. All figures on this page must have a source in order for them to be listed. If there is no source, then they will be deleted. While the figure on the wiki page for Warcraft III probably is true, it is uncited, and therefore we can not put that number here. Also, Wikipedia pages cannot be used as a source for elsewhere on Wikipedia, which eliminates the option of just citing the wiki page as the source. Zomic_13 04:32, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Warcraft III sales 

message: I found that Final Fantasy VII data to be really incomplete as I remember it being in Guiness records at a time for sales... And I looked up and found this in near seconds thanks to the parent company-
http://na.square-enix.com/e306/titles/ccff7/
Sales of near 10mil by the end of 2005' - to set the low at only over 8mil doesnt give it near enough credit.
The source (84) for Final Fantasy VII sales is completely opinionated, and also does not look as if the reported 8million refered to recent times. FenrirVII 00:11, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Updated, thanks for checking out. -- ReyBrujo 02:24, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Final Fantasy VII 

message: I am not sure because I don't speak "this" language, but if a title is deemed a platinum hit, does it mean it sold over a million copies? According to this, Fight Club Round 3 will be deemed platinum hit. -- ReyBrujo 02:40, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It used to be like that for Nintendo at least up until GCN, but now whether a game becomes platinum, greatest hits, or player's choice are just if the game has sold over 250,000 copies. WhiteMinority 22:56, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Platinum titles 

message: The box art says that it is a million seller... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.0.171.222 (talk) 20:35, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Or you can just say they can't be used and not explain... that's cool. 71.0.171.222 19:45, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Most of these games do not actually have box arts that state they are million dollar sellers, especially the newer games. Zomic_13 20:04, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, but what about the ones that do... like the ones I posted and you deleted? 71.0.171.222 23:59, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you are referring to me personally, I did not delete any box arts and did not see the changes you made. Zomic_13 17:38, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "23:32, 7 March 2007 Zomic13 (Talk | contribs) (rv, cited sources that state the sales figure for the games are needed, not links to box art images)" 71.0.171.222 04:19, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: pwned. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 202.20.97.220 (talk) 03:44, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why not a box art image? 

message: In the PS2 section, idiots keep swapping the GTAs around... it's got to stop! - 81.151.8.88 20:55, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: GTA spamming

message: According to this list Diablo II sold 15 million copies, while the entire franchise (which would include the Diablo II expansion and Diablo I and its expansion) only sold 17 million copies... This can't be. The Diablo II Expansion alone had to sell more than the 2 million copies required to make the 17 million marker. Then Diablo I had to make a killing in itself. Theres no way these numbers are accurate. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by DurotarLord (talk • contribs).
:The information comes from Vivendi, the owner of Blizzard (the developer of Diablo), and is updated June 2006. Therefore, I am guessing your assumptions are incorrect. -- ReyBrujo 04:14, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  The information from the financial report of Vivendi, dated June '06, nowhere states that Diablo 2 sold 15 million copies. The report only says that altogether, the Diablo FRANCHISE sold 17 million. His assumption is not wrong by any means, and the number needs to be changed, the source nowhere even states the number 15 million. I've looked over the concise report several times. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.102.209.167 (talk) 08:41, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In that point you are right: the source does not establish Diablo II sold 15m. DurotarLord did not imply the reference was wrong, but instead that it was not possible because, theorically, the expansion sold more. I have removed the Diablo II references (which I think were 9m or so). -- ReyBrujo 18:32, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: 134.173.56.174 22:13, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We are back at square one: we need a source to say how many units Diablo 2 sold. I will try finding one, however we can't just add it because "we know" it is a top selling game. Maybe you could go to Vivendi and begin checking old financial informations, one of those may state the amount. -- ReyBrujo 22:24, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Diablo 

message: We have been using an "implicit" limit of 10m for franchises, so I removed Civilization (posting it here for future reference).
 
# Civilization (7 million)
Also, according to this article, Devil May Cry franchise sold also 7m units. -- ReyBrujo 04:12, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Franchise limit 

message: As much as it pains me to do so, i will shortly be taking battlefield off the list of games that have sold 10mil+ units, as the number of units it has sold is currently listed as 9.9 million. if someone has evedince proving the number of units sold to be above 10million, or if we decide to change the title of the list, i would be happy to see it added again, otherwise it should stay removed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 202.4.74.65 (talk) 15:55, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: While I would be happy for you to do this the fact is that sales now well exceed 10 million. An interim report released by DICE last year before being fully acquired by EA had the total BF sales at around 10.25 million if I recall, unfortunately I can't link anymore because as now they are part of EA they don't publish interim reports on their site anymore. Also since their last report they have released BF2142 and while I don't want to guess at the sales numbers I'd be confident that it would again keep it well about 10 or perhaps 11 million franchise sales. I will edited the article to indicate 10+ million sales but keep it at the bottom until we have more verification unless there is objection.nutcrackr 00:29, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Battlefield 

message: Source: http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/toppers/?id=15381 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jmacglashan (talk • contribs) 21:58, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lost Planet should be added to the million sellers for Xbox 360 

message: I reverted all these changes to the franchise list because, apparently, we lost some information. In example, Game Informer states The Sims sold 54 million, with "data compiled from NPD and information supplied by the respective game publishers." However, a press release by Electronic Arts (the publisher itself) like this one states "The Sims games are among the most popular in the world, having sold more than 85 million games to date," which clearly contradicts Game Informer. When with conflicting numbers, we tend to keep the newest one. However, I do not think we should move all old references from reliable sites to Game Informer, as their information is older than some of our references. -- ReyBrujo 04:54, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, since adding cited facts is such a problem, I will never add that information again.Case closed. -- Hrödberäht (gespräch) 01:45, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the adult discussion. -- ReyBrujo 01:49, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Franchise list 

message: WTF!? Where the hell are the Castlevania games?  I have a hard time thinking that none of them sold over 1 million copies (otherwise, why would there be a bajillion sequels?). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.81.185.225 (talk • contribs).
:If you find a reference stating a Castlevania game has sold over a million copies, please do insert it! -- ReyBrujo 21:15, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Castlevania? 

message: In a recent interview with N'Gai Croal, Reggie Fils-Aime stated, at some point, Final Fantasy III on DS, it's a million unit seller in Japan; here it's at this point probably a half-million unit seller. Do you think that is a good reliable source for adding 500k units to the FFIII remake in the list? -- ReyBrujo 01:18, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Before I make a comment about this, do you have a link to the article / video that has the interview? Thanks in advance. Zomic_13 01:21, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Duh, I feel stupid :-[ http://ncroal.talk.newsweek.com/default.asp?item=552102 -- ReyBrujo 01:28, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I found this article (from March 16, 2007) with a quote from the Square Enix CEO. He states that there have been over 1.4 million units shipped in both Japan and North America. Zomic_13 01:39, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Note: I just updated Final Fantasy III, but to avoid any confusion, the update is totally unrelated to this discussion. I simply found a new Japanese figure of 1.01 million and updated the listing accordingly. Zomic_13 03:36, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Final Fantasy III

message: source : http://www.the-magicbox.com/game20070224.shtml —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Matou45 (talk • contribs) 02:06, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done, thanks. -- ReyBrujo 14:05, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yakuza has sold more than 1,7 millions

message: According to our current source, DMC sold over 4m. However, according to the official Capcom platinum list, DMC on PS sold 2.16m. What we do here? I mean, this is not the usual case when the developer announces they shipped a number but sources state it sold less. When we add DMC and DMC2 (1.7m) we get 3.86m. That article may be referring to the series instead of the first game? -- ReyBrujo 03:34, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have fixed the reference. -- ReyBrujo 13:59, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Devil May Cry conflicting situation

message: Exuse-me but i am not able  to add yakuza in the top. Are they have somebody to add yakuza in the top play-station . Exuse -me for my anglish i'm french !!!
Source: http://www.the-magicbox.com/game20070224.shtml  (in the middle on this page) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.203.193.169 (talk) 19:13, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done, thanks! -- ReyBrujo 14:06, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: For Yakuza it's true

message: I don't think we need the regional figures if we have the worldwide one, and if the worldwide is larger than the regional one. I remember several of my sources were deleted because they contained something like (3m,[ref] 1.1m in Europe[ref] 2m in Japan[ref]). I thought that was a mistake, but with time I agreed that, if we have the full total, we don't need the regional, especially when they differ. -- ReyBrujo 05:35, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it should remain for a few reasons. One, it is interesting to see how the sales break down by region, even if they don't quite add up to the total. The totals for games like NSMB, which have a cited total, are distinguished from totals of games that are added up by the "approximately". Additionally, there will be a point where the regional totals will surpass the cited total. If the regional totals are deleted, then it will be difficult to know when that point comes. Zomic_13 21:00, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The numbers are already too hard to read to include figures that do not match the total when the total is already available. We can always have a link to the current version of the article with all the numbers if we need to calculate new values. The links are not lost, just hidden because casual users should get as compact information as possible. -- ReyBrujo 17:27, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I didn't quite follow what you were saying about having a link to the current version of the article, but I'll go with removing the additional numbers, as long as we keep the subtotals somehow (whether that be moving them to the talk page, commenting them out, or doing what you suggested). Zomic_13 22:31, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Super Mario Bros. 

message: I have been checking this website to see if someone put Resistance Fall of Man on the video game best sellers list. I found information that proves that Resistance Fall of Man has sold 1.33 million so far please look at this. Im sure it is correct.
http://www.thesimexchange.com/stock.php?id=27#SlideFrame_5 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Coolguy681 (talk • contribs) 20:37, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you read it clearly, it states that it has only sold 326,835 copies (or 1/3 of a million). The 1.33 million is the projected lifetime sales. Zomic_13 20:53, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

text: However, that blog is basing the claim with sales data from VGCharts.com. VGCharts.com is not an acceptable source on this list, as it has been determined that the site does not provide accurate or reliable sales data. Zomic_13 13:37, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  What about Resistance Fall of Man for the PS3? 

message: Some new pokemon games are launching soon(main series, not a spin off), they'll be sure to dominate and beat Mario to the top, especially since Galaxy has been pushed back till December or something like that. Just look at the past numbers... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.185.199.75 (talk) 16:04, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Get ready for a change 

message: Where is Zelda (TP) ON Game Cube . He hasn't sold more than one million games? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.201.178.192 (talk • contribs) 
:According to the total NPD sales data available (for Jan and Feb) the GCN version only totals approx. 600,000. No data for other regions or more recent US data is available, so we don't know if it has surpassed 1 million yet. Zomic_13 17:12, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where is Zelda on GameCube 

message: Stemming from the discussion about the format of New Super Mario Bros. (see above), I've devised a possible new format for entries on the page. You can see it for yourself on my sandbox page Please keep in mind that it needs a little tweaking on the spacing, but otherwise I think it is pretty good. Post your comments and/or suggestions below. Zomic_13 23:19, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Even with enough tweakling it would make it far longer than the current 90kb one. A single entrance needs a table, which makes dealing with citations harder for people willing to help. Also, browsers that do not support javascript will display the full content of the tables. The article itself is becoming too big already, we should begin thinking into splitting it (franchises could be in a List of best-selling video game franchises, in example). -- ReyBrujo 01:47, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Format Proposal 

message: In the site of wikipedia , you can see that mario and luigi superstar (GBA) are sold 1,8 millions and partner in time(DS) sold 1,27 worldwide 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_&_Luigi:_Partners_in_Time   (go in the part reception) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.200.124.16 (talk) 23:56, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mario and Luigi

message: Currently Brain Age is listed with 12 million copies sold worldwide under Nintendo DS and Top 20 console games of all time, but it states in the Consolidated Financial Statements released by Nintendo about 2 days ago, quote: "Brain Age has sold a total of 8.08 million units worldwide including its sequel version released in Japan (12 million units life-to-date)." So does that mean Brain Age/Brain Training and its sequel (that was only released in Japan), Brain Age 2/Brain Training 2, combined sold a total of 12 million copies worldwide? If it does mean that then Brain Age did not sell the 12 million worldwide that is listed in this article. --Silver Edge 07:23, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I interpreted the 12 million total as the total for both Brain Ages. We know that BrainAge2 has sold ~4 million (according to the weekly Famitsu and Media Create numbers) and it mentions that Brain Age has sold 8.08 million. It is a little awkwardly worded though. Zomic_13 18:19, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We could also add the Brain Age series to the list of franchises, as it already broke the 10m floor we use there. Nintendogs could also enter there, too. -- ReyBrujo 23:12, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, Brain Age and Nintendogs should be added to the franchise list. --Silver Edge 23:53, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brain Age 

message: I don't know if this site is updated but after looking at another website I don't think I can agree with wikipedia. Please look at hyperlink.
http://vgchartz.com/worldtotals.php?name=&console=X360&publisher=&sort=Total —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Coolguy681 (talk • contribs) 02:51, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: VGchartz is not a reliable source and cannot be used. Sorry. Zomic_13 02:54, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia is missing a lot of X360 games on the best selling list.  

message: A huge chunk of SMB sales were free with the NES... shouldn't this page mention this? Hinges 08:09, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, I just noticed the "Bundled Games" section... but I still think that it should be noted in the individual console charts, as their sales would have been considerably lower had they not been free.Hinges 08:13, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't really think it is necessary. Also, it is for this reason that bundled games are not listed in the Top 20 best selling games. Zomic_13 13:50, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shouldn't it be noted that Super Mario Bros (NES) was a pack in? 

message: This list has stayed the same far too long. I found a link that shows an updated list.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Aj2CEAKE5oZkL6BQ_1Vl6uMjzKIX?qid=20060705212816AAkcDXc
I do not know where that person found that list, but it looks like he copied it from some other wikipedia website. However, this newer list looks updated. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 206.116.212.55 (talk) 17:19, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That list in the link you provided is actually an older version of "List of best-selling video games", so that list is not newer. --Silver Edge 01:17, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  This list needs to be updated 

message: This page needs photos of Sega Genesis, Sega Saturn, and Sega Dreamcast. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 206.116.212.55 (talk) 17:27, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sega Genesis, Sega Saturn, and Sega Dreamcast photos 

message: Shouldn't the Game Boy and the Game Boy Color section be seperated? They're two seperate systems! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.68.25.77 (talk) 23:48, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Game Boy/Game Boy Color 

message: God of war 2 should definetly be in the best sellers list. Its sold over 1 million 2 weeks ago. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Coolguy681 (talk • contribs).
:I think so. Do you have some links to reliable sites where they announce the million mark? -- ReyBrujo 04:16, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  What about God of War II? 

message: Was wondering why there isn't a multi-platform list and why Final Fantasy XI Online isn't found anywheres through this page? How come in "By Genre" Slot theres no MMO category listed?
(SquallRinoa89 12:06, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If it is not here it is because we haven't found a reference that states the game sold more than a million units in a single platform. The "By Genre" slot is for consoles only, and since we don't have a referenced million seller MMO console game, it is unnecessary. As for multi-platform list, the list would become just interminable, as basically any high profile game would fit the description. -- ReyBrujo 17:16, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Final Fantasy XI: Online.. Why? 

message: In the PS2 best sellers, it's behind Vice City with 12 million sold.
Under best selling games of all time, it says 14 million.
68.49.1.207 14:28, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The reference states 12 million, someone can't accept the game sold less than Pokémon :-P Thanks for pointing that out. -- ReyBrujo 15:38, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

text: It is not known unless proven. And the link we use as reference states 12 million, not 14 million. -- ReyBrujo 01:58, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  San Andreas:12 or 14 million copies sold? 

message: Why exactly isn't Tetris on the franchise list? Just one game sold 30 million, and over 120 games have been produced, which I think is enough for it to be considered a franchise. I don't see why it shouldn't qualify for the list. 170.235.213.115 17:18, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tetris in top-selling franchises 

message: I know that Gran Turismo 4 has sold several million copies, but all I could find with a quick search were some launch numbers (over 3 million shipped on day one in Euope and over 1 million sold in two days in Japan). Does anyone know what the total numbers are or where to find them? TBIRallySport 17:57, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gran Turismo 4? 

message: Shipped does'nt mean sold, we should take out games listed by amount "shipped" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.180.93.253 (talk • contribs).
:I think there are two only, Kingdom Hearts and Lost Planet... -- ReyBrujo 02:59, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shipped... 

message: The article lists Tomb Raider as 14 on the best selling franchises of all time section with 30 million copies sold, when in fact it was already 38 million copies sold pre-Angel of Darkness, which sold more than 2 million copies, with Tomb Raider: Legend selling at least 2.9 million copies last year, so shouldn't the recorded number of copies sold used here be updated? -MOOMOOcoming2eatU  21:43, 23rd May 2007
:References, reliable references. Without them, we use the highest number according to the references we have. Also, per our definition of original research, we prefer franchise numbers to come from a single source. Adding up numbers should be left to the primary sources, not us. -- ReyBrujo 21:27, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tomb Raider units sold 

message: Shouldn't that be added to the best-selling franchises since the two games combined would total more than 10 million?74.137.230.39 20:14, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You are correct! I just added Smash Bros. to the franchise list. Zomic_13 20:24, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Super Smash brothers

message: Isn't Nintendogs three seperate games, If so, shouldn't they be broken down by the games?   Metooduke 20:49, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is like with Pokémon, they are all basically the same game with different main characters. These games should be considered a single SKU. -- ReyBrujo 00:11, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Should Nintendogs be broken up?

message: RRR only sold 830.000 copies according to Ubisoft numbers and Red Steel only 950.000. They aren't million sellers despite Matt Cassamina's words. <ref=http://www.gamed.nl/view/26399></ref> —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.240.13.78 (talk • contribs).
:That information is up to March 2007. The interview is more recent, and we can trust he has more updated information.  Since he fulfills what we know as reliable source, the information is verifiable (whether it is true or not, it can be discussed, but that is not the point of Wikipedia). -- ReyBrujo 22:14, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rayman Raving Rabbids and Red Steel 

message: It's page gives no details on sales figures, but considering the sales for VII and VIII, and that it reached platinum status at least over here in the UK, I'd be surprised if it sold less than a million.
mysterious_w 3 June 2007
:Undoubtedly, but if we can't find a reliable source with that information, we can't just add it. -- ReyBrujo 03:09, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Final Fantasy IX is missing 

message: http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3160071
I don't know how to place a reference so I'm putting it here.
:Done, thanks for the tip. The Capcom report is at http://ir.capcom.co.jp/english/data/pdf/fy2007a.pdf, however I used the 1UP.com for simplicity. -- ReyBrujo 03:45, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Capcom numbers 

message: Resistance Fall of man sells over a million copies for the PS3!!!
Look at this article.
http://digg.com/gaming_news/PS3_has_it_s_first_Million_Seller_Resistance_Fall_of_Man —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Coolguy681 (talk • contribs).
:Sorry, but consensus at WikiProject Computer and video games is that vgchart[sz].org and nexgenwars.com are not reliable sources, so until someone reliable states so, it should not be added. -- ReyBrujo 03:08, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems to be true, http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=162016 -> 600.000 in Europe. So you'd only need to look at the American and Japanese numbers to see the total number. 81.240.6.85 12:11, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Cool, that is a good one. Gonna add it now, thanks! -- ReyBrujo 16:15, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Resistance fall of man sells over a million!!!!! 

message: The reference link for Battlefield under Franchise is dead; also the Battlefield franchise supposedly sold 9.9 million copies, but doesn't a game franchise have to sell 10 million copies before it is listed? --Silver Edge 02:09, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, we need another reference. After Dice changed the layout of their page, all links were lost. Wayback Machine may make the mirror available in the future. As for the minimum value of 10m, the difference between 9.9m and 10m is just 1%, which when talking about such big numbers, is negligible, don't you think? We are not talking about 1m, but 10x times that amount. -- ReyBrujo 22:40, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Battlefield franchise 

message: Pokemon was a hand held game not Console someone Clean that up a bit.And nintendo ds games. I rember nintendo ds didn't even sell that many ds's to get that many ds games. MAJOR clean up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hitamaru (talk • contribs) 
:Please put newer comments on talk pages at the bottom, rather than the top. For your comments, I personally think that the idea "A 'handheld' is not a 'console'" is rather ridiculous. Handhelds count as game consoles, and are only different from home consoles in that handheld consoles are designed to be portable. With your comment on the DS sales, many people who buy DS systems buy more than one game for the system. Ultraflame 02:16, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Pokemon games under "Top 20 console games of all time" are there because Game Boy and Game Boy Advance are handheld game consoles so they are considered console games. All the sales numbers for the Nintendo DS games have reliable sources as references. So no "major clean up" required. --Silver Edge 02:28, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Pokemon best console?

message: The Dynasty/Samurai Warriors series has been a huge success. Every entry into the series has broken a million to my understanding. I got a Gamespot link from 2003 that says the series has sold 5 million and that DW4 broke a million in a matter of days. And I got a VGchartz link (not always reliable) that puts DW3,4, and SW at over a million. I'll do some more research, but it should be safe to add a few of them. Thanks. (Lord Omega Yagami 22:43, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The official page of Koei states they have sold over 5m. The minimum threshold for the franchise list is 10m (give or take a few thousands, like Battlefield's 9.9m). -- ReyBrujo 01:18, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Dynasty Warriors

message: This article is now pretty large (~90kB). In my opinion, the Nintendo, Sony and possibly PC categories each deserve their own page. It might be fair to give Microsoft and Sega their own pages too, as those categories are bound to grow with time and lumping them together wouldn't make much sense. People's thoughts? Robin S 03:22, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Lists are not bound to article size guidelines. Also, since references are used between several games in several platforms, it will introduce errors (updating a page but not updating another). At one time I thought it would be good to split the franchises in its own article, but now think the article should stay as a single list instead. -- ReyBrujo 12:52, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

text: it might be more realistic to limit each system to a top 5 or 10.--Crossmr 15:29, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That would heavily impact on the usability of the list, especially since all numbers are referenced. -- ReyBrujo 02:04, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Article size

message: http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8PPE8KG0&show_article=1
According to that article, Resistance has sold more than 2 million copies. Take it for what you want.
7FlushSetzer 01:12, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Added, they are official Sony sold numbers so they should be added. 80.200.135.251 12:33, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Supposedly Resistance: Fall of Man has sold not 1, but 2 million 

message: Now that it has a featured game here, it needs its own picture.
7FlushSetzer 21:15, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Personally, it is unnecessary because it overlaps with the section below. Just like Saturn does not have a picture for the same reason. We can just wait until they get more million seller games so that the picture does not deface the article. And since it is a decoration, it is not that needed (reason for which we could remove all of them without making the article lose quality). -- ReyBrujo 02:03, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  PS3 needs a picture 

message: im pretty sure San Andreas is the leading game for 'best selling ps2 game'. Please correct it. The list was accurate as of March 2006 so i would expect San Andreas to be top now. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 58.107.168.148 (talk • contribs).
:If you can find a press release or another news about San Andreas selling more than 14 million, then feel free to update the information. We only modify the article if a reference is found, not on assumptions. -- ReyBrujo 13:59, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As I said before, we modify the articles with facts, not assumptions. If we did not find a 14m reference, it is because, although assumptions say one thing, nobody can corroborate that, therefore it is original research ("If the game sold 14m until 2005, it should have sold some more two years after"). -- ReyBrujo 22:40, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  GTA San Andreas 

message: Dear Wikis,
as i read about the best-selling video games, i was searching for figures about the Singstar product line. Are there some "official" figures available (nationwide, worldwide)?. 
Martinusius 22:15, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A report indicates the franchise sold 2 million, but does not give individual totals. -- ReyBrujo 16:03, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Here is a newer report stating the franchise sold 6 million as of earlier this year. -- ReyBrujo 16:06, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Ah, from March, the franchise sold 7 million. -- ReyBrujo 16:08, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Up to 8 million now according to Sony's Playstation Blog -Tntnnbltn 22:55, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  What about Playstation 2 - Singstar selling figures? 

message: I found an article from March of 2006 saying that God of War has sold over 2.5 copies. Check it out!
http://www.us.playstation.com/News/PressReleases/328 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Coolguy681 (talk • contribs).
:Is that talking about 2.5 million between both Gran Turismo 4 and God of War, or each? -- ReyBrujo 18:17, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: After some more checking, note that GameSpot interpreted it as combined (According to its publisher, Sony Computer Entertainment America, combined sales of the titles have topped 2.5 million units to date.), just like Gamasutra (Sony did not release individual sales data but stated that the two games together had sold over 2.5 million copies.) and even the official site picks GameSpot information in their news section. So, no amount as of yet. -- ReyBrujo 03:17, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  God of War 1 has sold over 2.5 million copies!!!!!!