Talk:Lump sum

message: The following section was moved from the article with the template added at the top:
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:In economics, the lump sum principle states that a tax on a person's general purchasing power is more efficient than a tax on specific goods. General purchasing power tax provides a non-distorted purchasing choice for the same amount of tax income; it leaves the consumer on a higher utility level than a tax on specific goods.
It would be easy enough to make a separate article of the section.  And that would make more sense than keeping "Lump sum principle" as a section (following a 1-sentence Lead describing a use of 'lump sum' as to insurance rather than economics).   'Lump sum' and 'Lump sum principle' are conceptually distinct terms. Keeping the section of Lump sum would be something like  making Firefly a section of Fire on grounds that they sound similar  and have a resemblance in giving off light.
Alternatively, the uses of 'lump sum compemsation' in economics as to welfare amd trade theory could be stated.   What's wrong is not necessarily the subject but its placement in this article. --Thomasmeeks (talk) 14:32, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Lump sum principle" section moved here 

message: I would point out that listing random mentions of lump sums in news reports does little or nothing to explain the concept -- it is basically just creating a . HrafnTalkStalk(P) 05:23, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: As reflected in the AfD, your view is at odds with consensus.  Of course those are not random, and of course they did more than "little or nothing" to explain the concept -- the spoke, in part, to the impact of lump sum payouts versus the alternatives, and demonstrate that this has been an issue affect large swaths of people for at least a century.  No need to tag-bomb the article with a badge of shame, simply because you have a view that is distinctly non-consensus.--Epeefleche (talk) 17:56, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

text: Hrafn -- you were as non-consensus as you can get at the AfD.  Even the nom has withdrawn his nomination, given the references added to the article.  Leaving you facing unanimous disagreement as to your subjective POV.  I understand that you think that everyone else is wrong, and only you are correct, but at some point it may be helpful for you to join the collaborative spirit of wikipedia and respect consensus.  What you are doing is flat-out disruption, ignoring the consensus of every other editor (who commented after the refs were added).  That's not appropriate.--Epeefleche (talk) 18:57, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

text: Take your pick -- the tag bombing could accurately be viewed as POINTy, petulant, disruptive, bullying, failure-to-respect-consensus.  In the wake of the AfD, and what people had to say there about the article and the refs added, and the fact that after they were added there was unanimous opposition to your POV, you tag-bomb the article?  That's completely inappropriate, and you have been around long enough to know that.--Epeefleche (talk) 14:43, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

text: *The unanimous opposition to your POV is reflected in the fact that all other editors after the refs were added found then article met our notability standards.  The POINTy aspect of your tag-bombing the article, directly after that overwhelming rejection of your POV, is self-evident.--Epeefleche (talk) 17:48, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: *Given that none of the editors involved gave any sign of have considered depth of coverage (I particularly liked your utterly vacuous WP:GHITS contribution), or the recent additions, your claim is just wishful thinking. Thank you for the gratuitous insults though. HrafnTalkStalk(P) 19:26, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure why you are being insulting.  If you have something to say, we might miss it in your incivility.  But as to the substance, the editors -- including the nom, who withdraw his nomination -- overwhelmingly rejected your POV.  It becomes similarly difficult to discern your good faith when you tag-bomb the article in the wake of such overwhelming rejection of your point of view.  Consensus is an important aspect of wikipedia; it is disruptive for you to try to bully those who adhere to the consensus view, when your arguments at the AfD have proven unconvincing to the community.--Epeefleche (talk) 21:09, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

text: I understand that had you !voted at the AfD, you would have !voted delete.  At the AfD, however, the clear consensus was contrary to that view.  Best, and welcome to the project.--Epeefleche (talk) 22:16, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: As is, I would have thought the same way. Useful – yes. DictDef – yes. Instead of examples maybe more history. When did the term first occur in the financial world. What issues are overcome or created by its use. Agathoclea (talk) 11:26, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Relevance? 

message: A "lump sum" is simply the addition of a number of (usually monetary) amounts into a single-number total. In fact "lump sum" is simply a fancy way of saying "single total". This addition may be over time (in the case of the lump sum value of an annuity or perpetuity), or of costs (in an invoice giving only a lump sum total, rather than itemised costs). Regardless, the concept is very simple, and really quite trivial. I have seen (and used) the concept innumerable times in academic Finance, tutoring Maths for Business, working as a Business Analyst, and in Economic consulting -- but never seen anybody bother to discuss or explain the concept itself -- any more than we'd bother to discuss or explain the equals sign.
The best way to explain such a simple concept is thus briefly and simply. A couple of very brief and simple examples (along the lines of my second sentence above) may be informative, but I cannot see how the very tangential examples given in the article are helpful. I am forced to conclude that they were chosen for weight (how much bulk they added to the article) rather than light (how effective they were at enlightening the reader). HrafnTalkStalk(P) 06:51, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Basically I agree with you. However equals sign is probably not the best comparison to make. It has a quite reasonable article Dingo1729 (talk) 14:41, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Symbolically, etymologically and so forth non-trivial perhaps, but not financially so -- but then there's also an article on addition, the mathematical concept that 'lump sum' is the trivial financial extension of. HrafnTalkStalk(P) 14:58, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is a "lump sum" and how is the best way to explain it? 

message: Are the examples given in this article helpful to the reader's understanding of the topic? HrafnTalkStalk(P) 10:03, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I think there could be better examples in the article. Warren (talk) 21:19, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Examples 

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