Talk:Mátyás Seiber

message: I removed this person from Wikiproject Jazz. Although he taught jazz, he didn't record jazz, based on the discography in this article. I'm unaware of any impact he has made in jazz, based on my reading and my sources. He seems to have spent most of his time in the classical world and therefore belongs more to the classical project. Keeping in mind this is subjective and there are close calls, the musicians in the jazz project are those who have spent a large portion of their lives dedicated to jazz. It is one of their defining characteristics as musicians. If I included everyone, then there woudn't be a jazz project. It would be known as Everyone. On the contrary, the project contains many musicians that many people would never consider jazz. But decisions have to be made, otherwise nothing would get done. There are over 27,000 articles in the jazz project, so it can't be called excessively exclusive. Over 4300 of those articles need much work. That's not a complaint. It's a fact. I make mistakes and I change my mind. If someone can make a good argument using copious reliable sources to suggest a certain musician belongs in the project, I'm willing to listen. I tend to exclude those who are "jazzy": dabbling in jazz, jazz influenced, jazz inflected, jazz tinged, jazz flavored, jazz fragranced.Vmavanti (talk) 19:48, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: This article is not the best-written one on Wikipedia, perhaps, but it is clear from it that Seiber taught jazz for five years, and published a book and two articles on jazz. This was in the late 1920s and early 1930s, when recordings were perhaps not quite as central to jazz music-making as they have become in the meantime, and it was in Germany, which may prejudice some jazz historians against him. It appears that he also composed film music, though in what style the article does not make clear.  Perhaps some editors in the Jazz Project would like to investigate this further. If his film music proves irrelevant, and his publications unimportant, then there may be justification for removing his article from the project. In the meantime ... ?—Jerome Kohl (talk) 23:05, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  I've already looked, but I'll look again. If the books are in English and they are substantive, there would not have been any prejudice against them. One of the best sources for jazz books today is Oxford University Press, though there is a branch office in New York. Again I must emphasize where the majority of his time has been spent, in the classical world, not jazz. Teaching jazz for five years and publishing one book doesn't add up to much.Vmavanti (talk) 23:24, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  If it is important, the book and articles are in German, not English. Given their dates of publication, perhaps this belongs to a Wikiproject interested in the history of jazz, rather than just in living artists. I am not familiar with the workings of the Jazz Project, so all I have to go on is the statement of its purpose, which would seem to include earlier periods. Seiber would be of particular relevance to those who might like to know what jazz in Germany was like, before the Nazis effectively banned the entire genre as Entartete Musik.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 23:48, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  I've read plenty about the history of jazz and written about it. Wikiproject Jazz does address historical figures, not merely the living. If you are unfamiliar with jazz and Wikiproject Jazz, perhaps you should leave it alone. EddieHugh may have some books about jazz in Nazi Germany.Vmavanti (talk) 03:38, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: As a member of the project yourself, you are in a better position to judge the relevance of this article to the project than I am. However, I did not say I am unfamiliar with jazz, only with the project.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 00:09, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  You might be interested to know EddieHugh does have a book about this subject (in English). So he has suggested the article remain in the project. His judgment on these matters is usually pretty good.Vmavanti (talk) 00:30, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: It is gratifying to learn that my persistent amateur meddling has produced this result! Thank you.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 00:38, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

text: His discography(what there is of it) is almost exclusively related to his compositions in the Classical music genre. When people speak of him, it's about his music in the modern Classical genre, not Jazz. He's no Gunther Schuller ... while the remark about his teaching and his book being "not much" is wholly subjective and untrue, Jazz is not his primary reputation. 50.111.40.110 (talk) 12:19, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jazz?