Talk:Eagle Scout/Archive 1

message: * message to 65.240.65.201
:* I have reverted the edits you made to Eagle Scout.  While I appricate your illingness to help, we are not allowed to copy content from other sites.  The copyright of this site says that all of the information used here needs to be explisitly decaired as free content.  I'm sure that some of this information is quite usefull and we can definatly put it back so long as we do it in the correct manner.  If we are to use statictics like the number of eagle scouts, we need to cite where they came from.  For the list of eagle's please check out List of Eagle Scouts (it needs some work, i did most of it myself.)  also there is a whole page devoted to List of BSA rank requirements which you might want to help on.  In any case, welcome and if you have any questions of ir I can be of help, please contact me on my talk page. Cavebear42 20:35, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  copyright of content 

message: Can anyone find a source for the claim that "Only two or three percent of Scouts who join ever attain [Eagle Scout]."? And perhaps some more detailed numbers? --Slowking Man 10:16, Dec 21, 2004 (UTC)
:Not every boy who joins a Boy Scout troop earns the Eagle Scout rank; only about 4 percent of all Boy Scouts do so. scouting.org Cavebear42 07:27, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: someone has added that it is only 2% in California.  I think that this is interesting but 1. im not sure if it relivent to the article as a whole and 2. it isnt cited.  i got the 4 percent number as cited above.  please list your citing here before readding.  for now, i will remove it. Cavebear42 21:10, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statistics on number of U.S. Eagle Scouts 

message: The part about the two black Chicago kids was removed because I thought that it seemed to have just been stuck in.  Not that it belonged in that particular paragraph.  Also, the two kids have not gone on to be of any historic note.  They weren't the first blacks to attain the rank, the article didn't state that they had any learning disabilities that they overcame, etc.  If someone wants to expand the article to include a section as to the statistics of being both an Eagle and being black, then that's fine.  Talk about Hank Aaron or Willie McCool would fit more for that section of the article than just two kids who went to college, in my opinion.
Dismas
:the link to the court of honor web page fits right in with this.  i have removed the text and the link we are disscussing before.  this appears to be the personal agenda of someone who feels that this is special.  WHile I aggree that it is special when a scout make eagle, it only belongs in this article if it affects the badge or its standing in america.  i dont think that the first black eagle or famous eagles would even belong here, we maintain a List of Eagle Scouts on another page which is for famous eagles.  a stat about black eagles might fit but in the spirt of the brotherhood of scouting, i would prefer that we dont attempt to start segragating our eagles into racial groups. Cavebear42 08:31, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Once the Court of Honor page gets set up, there will be different sections, since the Eagle Scout Court of Honor is a different ceremony all by itself.  Zscout370 21:54, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of the two examples of Eagle Scouts 

message: I just saw this added to the page.  I can find no official mention of an eagle scout oath anywhere in bsa literature.  i did some searching on the net and came up with this discussion where they appear to have agreed that there is no eagle scout oath.  I'm pretty sure about this but would love for someone to prove me wrong if you can find it somewhere. Cavebear42 23:21, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed it because there is no official oath, AFAIK.  I am an Eagle Scout and I never took any special oath (there is a Boy Scout Oath, however).  The ceremony where someone receives the Eagle award may contain a special oath, such as the one cited, but there are no rules about these ceremonies.  Any oath used in them must be specific to a certain troop, area or individual ceremony (an oath used by a lot of people, even if not official, could still be relevant for this article though). Tuf-Kat 00:32, Feb 16, 2005 (UTC)
**Ok, but I do wish to mention that this Oath that I took was during my Court of Honor and I remembered other scouts took it when they achieved Eagle.  However, I find it surprising that this oath is not universal.  Sorry about that yall. Zscout370 03:28, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  eagle scout oath 

message: Just heard about them and I'm wondering if someone in the know could describe them here. Sebastian 21:11, 2005 Mar 12 (UTC)
wow, maybe we need an article if you cant find it on the wiki.  the eagle project is a community service project led by the eagle candidate.  the scout must first come up with a written proposal.  the project must benefit the community in some way a and show the scout's leadership skills.  after getting it approved, the scout exeicutes the project and finally writes up a detailed report of what he did.  the project's validity is judged on the above criteria.  for a quick example we will use raising a flagpole as a project.  a scout says that he wants to put up a flagpole at his church and help promote patriotism.  project is approved seeing as how this can be a benefit to the community.
scenario 1: scout talks to the pastor who approves the project and donates the money.  scout then calls the flagpole company and hires them to do the job. case closed.  this project would fail.
scenario 2: scout gets pastors permission to do the job.  he organizes fundraisers and has 20 scouts working under him to get them money.  he calls the city and gets a permit for the task.  he consults a professional who advises him how to best do the task and make sure that it is done correctly and safely.  he then purchases the flagpole and organizes the team that will raise it.  the team raises it under his direction.  this project would pass.
the point is that leadership was shown and that the job was done by the scout, not his friends and family on his behalf.  hopefully this gives a good start to this discussion at least.  feel free to hit my talk page for more info or emails. Cavebear42 08:24, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: To me, this section reads more like a how to, than a section of an encyclopedia article.  While it is good material, I do agree that WikiBooks would be a more appropriate place for this material.  I have been thinking on this for some time: it might be time to start doing some work over at WikiBooks. --Gadget850
With no other discussion, I deleted this section.  The text would be very good as a start to a WikiBook. --Gadget850 19:16, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eagle Projects 

message: Hey, I created an article: Court_of_Honor_%28Scouting%29. I welcome anyone to edit it (once I remove the in use tag). Zscout370 (talk) 02:00, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notice 

message: I'm an Eagle Scout, wearing my uniform to church for Memorial Day.
I usually don't wear the medal for fear it'll end up in the wash.
But today being Memorial Day I thought I ought to wear it since I'm wearing my Class A Uniform.
But I didn't know which pocket to put it on. I googled for the answer, and here I am. It's not in here, and I can't edit it because I don't know the corrent answer. If anybody else knows, could you add that detail? Thanks. :)
:The medal will be worn on the flap of the left uniform pocket (where the insignia is placed). This is placed below any knots you have earned. See http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle/eagmedal.htm Zscout370 (Sound Off) 03:16, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: In addition, I have seen some Scouters wear their Eagle medal on a suit jacket on the left lapel at an Eagle Court of Honor, but I'm not sure if this is appropriate.  KC9CQJ 09:11, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I wear a lapel pin in situations like that. My medal is in a case/shadow box. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 15:08, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The only thing I wan't to mention to you is that if you are an adult wearing the uniform you should only have the Eagle Knot on. If you are still in scouting you can only wear the medal if you don't already have the patch sowed on. RENTASTRAWBERRY FOR LET? röck 03:52, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

text: When two badges have the same meaning, only one may be worn.  Eagle is the exception to this rule:  the medal may be worn when the badge or knot is worn.  Reference:  Scoutmaster Handbook, 1981, page 334.  Normally, this is for ceremonial occasions such as a Court of Honor or Scout Sunday.  --Gadget850 17:01, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Correct uniform placement of the medal? 

message: Since this article has been nominated for improvement, I thought I would make a few suggestions:
*Move much of Eagle Scout rank in the BSA to the lead in.  Move the NESA and DESA references here. Done, needs a lot of cleanup.
*A short history. Started section, but no text yet.
*Current requirements: tighten the text, more emphasis on leadership and service.
*Expand service project.
*Include palms (image?).  Found it at Eagle Palm!  
*Move Interpretation of the badge design to Insignia. Tighten this up
*Similar awards: move the lead in info on Philppinnes and Queens, add GSUSA Gold, Venturing Silver and anything that some folks might consider comparable.
:BTW, scout should be lower case except when referring to specific persons or when it is a part of a name, title or rank.
Any other thoughts? --Gadget850 19:01, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Any objections to removing this section? --Gadget850 11:26, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Improvement

message: The Arrow of Light is Cub Scouting's highest award, and as such is on par with the highest awards/ranks in the other program areas.  Hence the ability of Boy Scouts to wear the insignia past the age of 11 and of adults to wear the corresponding knot.  Thesquire 08:59, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly.  Thus the use of comparable, not equivalent.  I like what you did with that section.   --Gadget850 10:18, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Arrow of Light and Eagle

message: Looking at several references (Scout Handbooks, Insignia Control Guides, etc) the cloth patch is consistently referred to as a badge and the pin on emblem is a medal.  Also the other rank pages use badge for the patch. --Gadget850 11:16, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Badge/Medal

message: How about making a Eagle scout userbox? Place it below. Dustimagic 19:35, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eagle Scout Userbox 

message: Eagle Scouts who enlist in the US military may receive advanced rank in recognition of their achievements.
Is there anything out there we can cite? I've heard this before, but I haven't been able to find any verfiable sources with a quick Google search. I remember that Rlevse is retired from the U.S. Navy, and he could probably vouch for it, at least. -— Rebelguys2 talk 18:07, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Very cool. Thanks! — Rebelguys2 talk 20:49, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, they can get E-2 or E-3 automatically, depending on what is being offered at the time they join and which service they join. Rlevse 22:30, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Eagle Scouts and the U.S. Military

message: Stop the revert war on the percentage of BSA Scouts who make Eagle.  As Gadget850 has provided an official BSA cite for it, this is settled.  Not to mention the people who keep changing it to 2% don't even have the integrity to get an account and sign their name. Any further reverts from 4% will be reported as vandalism. Rlevse 22:37, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Revert War on Eagle Percentage

message: Anyone think something should be included about people returning their Eagle Awards to BSA HQ in response to BSA v. Dale or the atheist Scout being kicked out? Worldtravller 20:50, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No.  This is about the award, not people's feelings towards it or BSA. This is more appropriate for Controversies about the Boy Scouts of America. Rlevse 21:28, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds good. Worldtravller 02:53, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Returning of Eagle Scout Award 

message: Propose merge from Eagle Palms.  The article is short, and can certainly be tightened up enough for s section in the Eagle Scout article.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 16:24, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Support I always thought it was odd to have palms separate. Rlevse 18:19, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Support What Rlevse said. --Naha|(talk) 20:00, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Support I've always kind of thought of the palms as a addition to the eagle rank not something seperate. --CCWorld 02:25, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge of Eagle Palms

message: I'm just too tired to look this up right now, but this looks like it was taken from one of the ceromonies.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 14:03, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Badge Symbolism

message: It might be good to show the award kit given to an eagle scout (ie. mothers pin, award, mentor pin, father pin, and i think there was something else in there. also, a picture of the eagle certificate would be nice. the two problems with that are that first of all we need to decide whose to use, and second of all, do we blur out the name. i'm fine with using mine but i'm afraid people will take it as me trying to gloat or something. any takers?--preschooler@heart  my talk - contribs  06:21, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eagle Award Kit 

message: What's the purpose of the word "rank" in the title? The rank is called "Eagle Scout", not "Eagle Scout rank". — Dan | talk 23:20, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: To distinguish Eagle Scout as used here from a person who is an Eagle Scout, the Eagle Scout badge and medal, etc. Rlevse 23:31, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  name 

message: *Eagle Scout (Boy Scouts of America) was made a Good Article.  Rlevse thinks it has FA potential.
*Rebelguys2 doesn't think it's a very well-written article at all, but it is well cited. These were some of his other comments:
**The main problem is that the text is extremely choppy.
**There's really not that much content in there; we should expand the article so that it's comprehensive
***expand the history
***perhaps add more data about how to obtain the rank
***add a section about the Eagle Scout rank and how it relates to how it's perceived by the public, in pop culture, in history, etc.)
***rewrite it so it's not just a long list.
What then do we need to do next? --evrik 21:11, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: GA to FA

message: It appears that much of this section (prior to my last edits) is copied from Dr Murray's The Eagle Badge page.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 17:20, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Evolution of the Eagle Scout Badge

message: Lead-in:
*Needs a bit more polish. Wimvandorst worked this
:Needs more work.  Not sure about the title of the new section. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 18:24, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course- it has the knot for adults!  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 18:24, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Interesting.  My 3rd edition handbook (1933) has Eagle as a rank, but it's still in the merit badge section.  The illustration of the uniform shows Star and Life on the bottom of the merit badge sash and Life on the left pocket. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 11:06, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, very interesting; I've left a question on this on the forum at USScouts. When we get this answer, I think we should submit this for peer review, then later FAC. Rlevse 11:47, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I'm proposing a change of the section name from Evolution of the Eagle Scout Badge to History of the Eagle Scout badge. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 18:50, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good idea. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 22:53, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a bit shorter now that I merged the type 8 series. What do you think? --Gadget850 ( Ed) 18:24, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

text: *Better although not complete yet. I split the table to show what I mean, which comes out better in narrow windows (or large print). Perhaps a completely different layout altogether, e.g., separate pictures all right aligned? Give it a try if you feel like it. Wim van Dorst (Talk) 20:01, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Improvements

message: :And another thing is that the text of the Type 1 to 8 is a literal copy of Ref-12 (Craig Murray's website). This is probably a blatant copyright infringement, isn't it? Wim van Dorst (Talk) 21:53, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Fraid so, except for some edits I made before I noticed.  See the section above. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 22:53, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Lack of a copyright statement is not enough.  To use text from another source like this, there must be an explicit statement of use.  In addition, the page does note "The information about the badges was obtained from A Comprehensive Guide to the EAGLE SCOUT AWARD by Terry Grove."  We have no idea how much text was used from the Grove source.  Please: let's just get past this and do it in our OWN words. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 11:06, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I finally figured that out after looking at the list of sub-types.  That link wasn't real obvious at first. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 11:06, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Copyright issues

message: We made it to ebay!  Take a look at items 7768944704 and 7769471125! --Gadget850 ( Ed) 14:45, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: ebay

message: It is my perception that the lead text should define and summarize. The previous text did IMHO do that well. The pruning of the lead text gives me the impression of a downgrading edit without purpose. Would you please explain the edit? Wim van Dorst (Talk) 10:24, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: <opinion mode> The badge and the medal are NOT the Eagle Scout.  The lead-in should be a quick overview of the subject, and these are not the core.  Indeed, the image at the top should be of an Eagle Scout Court of Honor or of a service project in action (I've been looking through my archives). The lead-in does need at least one more sentence, but I have not been able to visualize it.</opinion mode> --Gadget850 ( Ed) 01:35, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But also note Featured Article criteria specify the intro should be an overview of the whole article.  I suggest we leave the medal and patch in, put something in the intro about it, and see what happens when we submit for FA.  Aside from that, I also agree the intro needs 1-2 more sentences but haven't come up with anything good yet.  Everyone feel free to take a try at it. Rlevse 01:46, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I really like the intro now.  I think we should go to FAC when I have the medal photos done, which should be in a few days. Rlevse 15:54, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Did you forget to add merit badge requirements for palms.  As stated "Additional recognition can be awarded with Eagle Palms for completing tenure and leadership requirements" one would think that staying in Scouting and being a leader is all you have to do, where there is actual work that had to be done to recieve the additional honors.  Just a thought.--dep369 16:00, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point, I just added it. Rlevse 17:53, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pruning of the lead text 

message: * The 4th Eagle was a 31 year-old scoutmaster, followed by four of his Scouts.
* BSA quietly dropped the signature of the President of the US from 1999 to 2002 on Eagle certificates.
--Gadget850 ( Ed) 13:40, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What version was that in?  I can't find it.  Right now, I'd say cruft for the 4th Eagle and interesting for the Pres' sig (I didn't know they'd dropped it for awhile). Rlevse 13:46, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I'd say the 4th Eagle being an adult is notable, especially since it has been quite some time since adults were allowed to earn ranks in the BSA. --Habap 15:11, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We already mention elsewhere that adults could earn the award and during what years. Rlevse 15:15, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Perhap, since we mention that 8 of the first 9 eagles did not get star or life we could mention that one of the nine was an adult.  (End of first Paragraph)Just a thought.  --dep369 22:49, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Notable or cruft?

message: Patch is a generic term.  Per the Language of Scouting:
;badge
:Usually lowercase when referred to badges that Scouts can earn: "Webelos activity badge," "Wolf badge," "Boy Scout badge," "merit badge"; however, "Wood Badge."
;emblem
:Do not capitalize: jamboree emblem, compass points emblem, Trained Leader emblem, and all of the religious emblems (God and Me emblem, Alpha Omega emblem).
BSA documents are consistent:  ranks are badges.  Other patches such as leadership are emblems. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 13:26, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Patch/badge/emblem

message: Should the Robbins medal without the BSA be included to show an example of one?  A row under the medal could state with BSA and without BSA.--dep369 12:10, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Without BSA

message: I switched the Stange to a Stange 5 as we have a nicer pic of that one.  I also moved to images to the left as Wim mentioned, but I really do not like them floated left/right unless the text is beside them.  I do like centered without text.  I am okay with either way.  I also added a single pic of one without BSA on it per Dep369, putting it separate as it seemed to make the group pic too big, leaving little side room for text and causing problems with low resolution monitors. Rlevse 15:31, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Medal layout

message: I don't think this paragraph is accurate. 
:As Eagle Scout is the highest award in the Boy Scout program, it is considered comparable to the highest awards in other BSA programs such as the Cub Scout Arrow of Light, the Varsity Scouts Denali Award, the Venturing Silver Award and the Sea Scouts Quartermaster Award. It can also be compared to the Gold Award of the Girl Scouts of the USA.
I don't have an alternative. --evrik 13:38, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think he meant in the sense they are the highest of their level.  I'll see if I can reword it. Rlevse 13:46, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

text: They are neither equal nor unequal.  They are equivalent in that they are the highest award of each division.  I would be just as happy putting these in the see also section.  Thoughts? --Gadget850 ( Ed) 20:21, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd rather leave it where it's at.  I think the article is in excellent shape at the moment.Rlevse 21:27, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that it is inaccurate, the arrow of light is given to 5th graders for attending several activities sessions, the eagle scout rank takes hundreds of hours of work, massive responsibility, and extensive planning and cannot be achieved by simply showing up.Tjb891 18:25, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We're not saying they are equivalent in work, but in that they are equivalent in being the highest level ...I just changed this, hopefully it's less confusing now. Rlevse 19:04, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Tweaking Language

message: Would it help any to include an image of any of the generations of wallet cards? --JohnDBuell 01:35, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We'd need an old one (I don't think I have one) and we'd have to blot out names. But I think this is a possibility. Rlevse 01:40, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, as I said, mine's from 1993. If anyone has a pre-plastic card one, or a modern white one to contrast that to, it could work. Or just put up a pre-plastic card one.... --JohnDBuell 01:55, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Did the design change between 1993 and 2003? If they did, I can scan mine. It's not in the best condition though. I think a friend of mine might have a more recent one is that one's different too. Counterfit 08:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Include wallet card image? 

message: Assuming this makes FA, I plan to ask it be on the main page on Aug 21, 2006, the 94th anniversary of the first Eagle Scout, Arthur Rose Eldred. Rlevse 15:40, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Main page

message: In the case of FA, we should also list it for V0.5 and then V1.0 when that goes live. I don't think History of merit badges (Boy Scouts of America) would qualify because I think most people wouldn't consider the MB article "significant", but Eagle Scout would certainly be.Rlevse 13:07, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Since Gerald Ford is also listed, that makes two Eagle related articles! --Gadget850 ( Ed) 13:35, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It got shot down.  There's a big debate on the V0.5 talk page. Rlevse 12:31, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Reviews are the luck of the draw. Thanks for readding though. Rlevse 22:46, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Then contribute those things to it. Rlevse 00:01, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Wikipedia:Version 0.5 Nominations]]

message: *The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and may or may not be accurate for the article in question (due to possible javascript errors/uniqueness of articles).
*See if possible if there is a free use image that can go on the top right corner of this article. 
*Per WP:WIAFA, Images should have concise captions.
*There may be an applicable infobox for this article.  (Note that there might not be an applicable infobox; remember that these suggestions are not generated manually)
*Per WP:MOSNUM, there should be a non-breaking space -   between a number and the unit of measurement. For example, instead of 18mm, use 18 mm, which when you are editing the page, should look like: 18 mm.
*There are a few occurrences of weasel words in this article- please observe WP:AWT. Certain phrases should specify exactly who supports, considers, believes, etc., such a view.   
*Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that the it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 2a. 
*You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions (and the javascript checklist; see the last paragraph in the lead) for further ideas. 
All in all useful recommendations, I'd say. Wim van Dorst (Talk) 22:53, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: initial responses
#No.
#N/A here.
#No.
#I don't even see a unit of measure, but I did fix some hyphens with –
#apparently applies because it makes sense and there is no proof, rm considered
#copyedit done
#did that
Rlevse 23:34, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  new Peerreviewer.js output 

message: Howdy, I would like to see a small paragraph about the benefits of completing the Eagle award. Besides college, military, and career, what kind of discounts are there? The only one i know of is car insurance... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.132.133.60 (talk • contribs) 
Car insurance?  What company offers a discount?  I would think that its going to vary by company.    At one point, we had a list of various scholarships, but pared it down to the NESA administered scholorship[s and a note that there are more.  If this is true, I would suggest you add a sentence stating that some companies may offer discounts.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 02:44, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Car insurance discounts are a trivial benefit and not worth mentioning.Rlevse 03:00, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, I'd be interested to see this in here, as I believe some others would as well.  (As an Eagle Scout myself, this would be useful information) Kcbnac 14:37, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  benefits? 

message: I'm not sure why or how, but when you enter this page without being logged in, it has something on the page about maralyn monroe created the eagle scout badge.  I'm not sure how to get it off or move it to another section. its on the very bottom below the references.All4One 00:48, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: IT was vandalism, lets us know if it comes back, should be gone now. Rlevse 00:55, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

text: See User:Raul654/protection. Also, there doesn't seem to be a ludicrous amount of vandalism; a few editors watching the page should be plenty. --Slowking Man 03:14, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As I've always said, we shouldn't have to fight vandals. Everyone should have an acct and every vandal should be ruthlessly permanently blocked. Rlevse 03:17, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

text: The wiki powers that be refuse to protect the main page FA. Others don't agree, like me, but the ones with power hold the big card. When my MB article was on the MP, it got vandalized over 40 times. Rlevse 03:16, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

text: We are at 75 edits- some look valid, several are reverts and most are plain vandalism.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 03:18, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The 40 I mention were pure vandals, not counting reverts and valid edits. We have some valid edits tonight too, plus a few that don't matter, such as rearranging the table sides.Rlevse 03:19, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

text: It isn't an issue of the "powers that be" deciding anything. I would gladly protect the main page featured article if there was a community consensus to do so, and I'm sure plenty of other admins would as well. However, protection is harmful, and should only be a last resort. --Slowking Man 03:21, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Totally disagree, we shouldn't have to fight the vandal scum in the first place and do you really want people coming in to see the MP article in vandalized form when they first come to wiki? And if you do protect it, Raul will just get on your case....yes, I've seen that happen. I have always and will always say the arguments for not protecting the main page are pure hogwash...for example, "here's one of wiki's best, just as you call it up with porn inserted by a vandal....Rlevse 03:24, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: While vandalism is a problem (and hopefully the proposed stable versions system will help to alleiviate this), I'm still convinced the benefits of leaving the Main Page featured article unprotected outweigh the problems caused. Both protecting the featured article and prohibiting anonymous editing have been proposed and rejected many times. Wikipedia's openness is one of its strengths, if not its strongest, and I predict that requiring users to log in to edit would cause Wikipedia's quality and popularity to quickly decrease. --Slowking Man 03:49, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree.  And the crux of the matter is that we are dealing here with an official Wikipedia policy, i.e. a standard that all users should follow.  See Wikipedia:Semi-protection policy#When not to use semi-protection. The protection should be removed. --Richardrj talk email 08:41, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Might it be possible to freeze the page and then leave a section at the bottom open, in order for notes to be added, but only in that space? That way the whole article wouldnt have to be watched on fetured pages. not even sure if its possible, but maybe.All4One 02:06, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not sure 

message: Would it behoove this article to point out that the award though ostensibly for life can be and has been rescinded in cases of homosexual or atheist scouts? i guess the controversy is not pertinent to the eagle scout rank as such but rather to the BSA as a whole still it is a subject which has received some news in recent years and might be worth mentioning in some context.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.229.27 (talk • contribs) 
[New topics go at the bottom of the page- just click on the + beside Edit this page to start a new topic.  Please sign you edits.]
BSA policy is that awards are never rescinded.  This has come up before- if you have a reference, please share it.   --Gadget850 ( Ed) 04:59, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Gadget is right, BSA won't rescind them, that is UFL-Urban Folk Legend. Some have apparently turn in or renounced their Eagle award, but I have not seen proof of that either. The only story along this line that is verified true is that Steven Spielberg resigned from the BSA national board over this issue, but he did not turn in his Eagle award over it. Rlevse 11:24, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

text: The anon doesn't know what he's talking about. Rlevse 02:09, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Controversy

message: What are your thoughts on mentioning a few examples of notable Eagle Scouts in this article? I was thinking after the sentence "As such, they are disproportionately represented in the military, service academy graduates, major professions, business and politics" in the "After becoming an Eagle Scout" section? I think something like, "Many prominent American politicians, including several presidents (such as Gerald Ford), members of the U.S. military—including numerous Apollo astronauts, academics, and business leaders are or were Eagle Scouts" would give better context for the statement. As it is now, the statement feels kind of weaselish. Feel free to hack up my sentence, too; it's just an example, and it sounds kind of unwieldy, but my brain isn't working at full power right now.
Also, can someone find a reference for the number of Distinguished Eagle Scout Award recipients? I tried searching around on the BSA and NESA sites, and a little Google-fu, but I couldn't seem to turn up any numbers. --Slowking Man 09:34, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The number of DESAs is derived from a list Terry Lawson of BSA sent me, which is the list I used to build my Troop179 DESA page (yes, I counted them). A short set of example Eagles is okay with me, but I wouldn't get carried away with it. See List of notable Eagle Scouts, which is up for featured list right now.Rlevse 11:22, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

text: There are 1645 DESA currently on the list (copy the HTML table to Excel and it is easy to count).  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 14:05, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you're using my list, that won't have most of the ones from the last few years. I'd have to get an update from BSA to have them. the only ones of those I have are ones I happen to hear about. Rlevse 14:21, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thats why I used "under 2000" in the articles. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 14:31, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable Eagle Scouts 

message: When this is all done, I'm going to use the 16:46, 10 November 2006 version as a baseline and do a diff.  I've seen a few good changes and I don't want to lose them amidst the sea of edits. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 13:51, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup 

message: Why is the square knot refered to as a reef knot with the two images, but as square knot in the text.  These patches are always refered to as square knots in BSA literature, never as reef knots.  I didn't want to change them until I found out why.  --Emb021 17:09, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Reef Knot?

message: *
--evrik (talk) 19:12, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, NESA now has a list of projects.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 15:04, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Should this be added?

message: "Up to the end of 2005, 1,835,410 Scouts had earned the rank." I just got this statistic from the NESA office. --evrik (talk) 19:22, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you go ahead and add that (with a citation)? A more concrete figure would be great. --Slowking Man 21:34, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Total number

message: There used to be a separate article about Eagle Palms, but I see its now gone and "Eagle Palms" points to this article.  That's fine, but now there is no info as to what Eagle Palms are, etc.  I think that a new section should be created containing the information in the old article.  --Emb021 21:23, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds like a good idea to me. You're welcome to go ahead and add it. --Slowking Man 21:34, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I think putting it into the main article is good enough.  I just didn't want the information to be lost.  --Emb021 21:53, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

text: OK with me.Rlevse 16:28, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

text: A redirect is fine- that is what it is designed for.  Currently, Eagle palm and Eagle Palm redirect here.  I don't know if the information from Eagle Palms did not get merged properly or got deleted somehow, but I was able to back and pull the pertinent information from the old article.  -Gadget850 ( Ed) 16:57, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Eagle Palms

message: It looks like there is a lot of vandalism on the page (probably due to it being a feature article).  Should the page be 'frozen' to prevent this?  --Emb021 21:25, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See User:Raul654/protection. --Slowking Man 21:34, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok.  I just noticed 2-3 vandals/reverts in just a few minutes in the article, and in looking at the history I saw a sh*t load just for today. --Emb021 21:53, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

text: This started yesterday evening and it hasn't stopped.  There have been enough folks doing reverts that neither Randy nor I have beat our brains over it.  We have been reverting the other articles that are getting some attention.  Getting attention on the main page is suppose to be a good thing.  This article seems better and better. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 22:08, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism

message: I'm thinking of splitting this into something like List of highest awards in Scouting or some such.  I've never been real happy with this section and it is continually tweaked.  I think it worked better when it was a list, but the list format didn't survive the FAC. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 20:36, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Try using a template. That's what we're doing on College football for awards, bowl games, conferences (soon) and other things that really need to be a list but can't because of the desire for FA status. z4ns4tsu\talk 21:43, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't get it-  I don't see any templates there. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 02:00, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: At the bottom  of the article, there is a template for individual awards (Heisman, et al) and one for the bowl games.  These both replaced long lists of the same information. We also just today created two more templates that haven't been put on the page yet, but will replace the lists of conferences.  They're at  and . z4ns4tsu\talk 03:52, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Nice, Gadget850. See: List of highest awards in Scouting.   Dddstone 00:53, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Guides are Scouts too, it's one movement, if not whey did girl guide/girl scouts form into one organization--WAGGGS. It's like the difference in car and auto.Rlevse 03:10, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Similar awards 

message: http://markyork.blogspot.com/2006/11/eagle-scouts.html
--evrik (talk) 21:25, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This one cracked me up. Raul654 03:06, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Raul, I rolled my eyes when I read that. It disgusts me that so many men (and it's always men) mock those who choose to become Scout leaders. --Habap 14:00, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I thought it was crass. It may have been satire, but still crass. Rlevse 14:40, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Someone noticed