Talk:Meteotsunami

message: Storm surge? do they overlap? are they completely different? Is a meteotsunami a Seiche?Lacunae (talk) 15:47, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: How is a meteotsunami related to...

message: I removed the photos and captions claiming that Ike's damages along the Bolivar Peninsula were due to a meteotsunami.  Several researchers have studied the unique characteristics of the storm surge associated with Hurricane Ike, myself included, and none that I'm aware of have found that a meteotsunami was a primary driver.  The talk here indicates that the claim is substantiated by a single amateur eyewitness account, making it dubious at best.  Surge during Ike was due to a combination of a forerunner surge due to a shelf (or Ekman) wave and the classical driver of surge, local wind setup.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.168.151.158 (talk) 16:09, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The "single amateur witness" is a primary witness whose account of the surge's behavior matches up perfectly with what is seen in the Haiyan surge video (in which winds have already lightened and wave-train pile-up abated somewhat as the eye moved overhead, and then ka-pow: the ocean heaves in like a locomotive and doesn't stop coming -- there is no way on earth that's "local wind set-up"). Take a closer look at the damage in those Ike photos: deep erosional scour and steel poles bent over all in a uniformly landward direction, etc). Regards the "several researchers", if you can find one who argues emphatically that this was not meteotsunamic behavior (and his argumentation takes into account the factors above), then I would be inclined to accept your edit, at least for the time being (even though I'd still think they were wrong).--Froglich (talk) 18:33, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't really comment on Haiyan, as I've never investigated that storm.  I did seen another researcher present that same video arguing that it was the result of powerful infra-gravity waves, instead.  I really don't know.  Anyway, even if the eyewitness account estimating the forward speed of the water were a reputable source, there remains the issue that there has been a plethora of other work looking at this event that has not found any evidence, nor need, to suggest a meteotsunami.  In fact, a Google Scholar search doesn't give a single academic reference relating the two.  So, I cannot provide a researcher arguing against the characterization, though there are many that have discussed the unique behavior of the surge profile during Ike, without reference to the possibility that a meteotsunami occurred.  I've done work on this storm, too, but, here's a study that successfully used several different models to simulate Ike's surge, without any need for a meteotsunami.  I just went back to look at gage records, there are 2 along the open coast, Galveston Pleasure Pier (8771510) and Galveston Bay Entrance North Jetty (8771341).  The latter fails before the peak surge, but the former stays active and doesn't show any signs of a rapid spike in water level.  I have the data on my computer, so don't have a link to it, but should be available from NOAA's tidesandcurrents website.  Unfortunately, Pleasure Pier is on the south side of the entrance to Galveston Bay, so it's not quite the Bolivar Peninsula, but it is still close, about 9 km from the very center of the eye (based on the HurDAT best track), whereas the picture of that 1 surviving house is 28 km away.  There's another gage, Rollover Pass, quite close to where those photos were taken, but it's also mostly missing data.  If Ike had a track or forward speed that might imply it could excite a resonant mode to induce a meteotsunami, or anything of the sort, I'd at least agree the damage could be stated as possibly coming from one.  But I just don't see any indication of the sort of phenomena necessary.  I'll leave the page as-is for now, do please take a look and reconsider.  I'd also argue that stating Ike had a meteotsunami based on the eyewitness account is original research, but that's another issue.  Tfocker4 (talk) 23:54, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm calling time on the storm surge/meteotsunami thing. I've questioned it and I see some others are as well. Even if meteotsunami happen every time that a hurricane makes landfall, they're not significant compared with normal storm surge and setup. Further, linking the two gives the readership the wrong idea, that meteotsunami are a hurricane phenomena, when in actuality they're common in the Great Lakes and Mediterranean Basin, and can happen without any hurricane being present (a fast moving squall line is a more reliable generator). Most of all, Monserrat et. al. (used as a source here) go out of their way to establish the differences between the two. And interpreting eyewitness accounts is OR, as given above. Geogene (talk) 04:21, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: You know what? I'm not going to argue -- I'm just going the predict that the next time a big-eye or 'super'-class TC moves in over flats, the exact same thing is going to happen again about 5-10 minutes after eye landfall: the ocean will jack up another 5'-10' almost instantaneously and surge laterally at 30mph in a sustained roar (causing 90% of the destruction and fatalities in a matter of moments), and all of you wavetrain-theory guys who resolutely ignore witness testimony will eat crow *again* (and for the last time, as said theory is finally plunged). So now we get to wait out the "hurricane drought" and see who's right.--Froglich (talk) 09:28, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: For the record, I don't really have a stance on the cause of the damage during Ike.  But, the research and data don't support a meteotsunami in this particular case, and "regular" waves are more than capable of doing the damage seen during Ike (given the magnitude and duration of the event).  The USGS now deploys tons of sensors when an event is coming in, so events are captured with much greater precision now.  So if this is happening, you're right that the data will show it.  Though it is bound to be quite case-specific, given the need for resonant interactions between the pressure wave and bathymetry to generate a meteotsunami.  Tfocker4 (talk) 12:00, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Usage of Ike 

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