Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Arnold Murray

message: Since it seems to be a subject of debate, I have compile the following two lists. I examined the history end-to-end of the article to do so, and hope that this serves as a good reference for others in this debate.
;External links
#Shepher'd Chapel website
#*Statement of Faith
#*Answers to Critics (briefly used as a source at one point)
#Arnold Murray and White Racism: Christian  Identity
#Arnold Murray mistakenly predicts the end of the world to be in 1981
#CARM.org website
#The purpose of this site is to refute the lies spoken against Pastor Arnold Murray.
#*The Shepherd's Chapel VERSUS hate groups.
#Scripture Truth Challenges critics of the Murray's teachings. 
#Profile of Shepherd's Chapel - From a "mainstream" evangelical Christian group
#Let Us Reason Ministries - Extensive anti-Murray article
#A place to discuss the validity of Shepherd's Chapel doctrine.
#Arnold Murray Gun Incident shown on "God Stuff" segment on "The Daily Show", a satire program
#The Unoffical Shepherd's Chapel Audio Archive
#A website written by a student of SCN.
#Oracles of God
#SC Revealed: Some Arnold Murray audios
#What do Murray & Thom Robb have in common?
#Students of Shepherd's Chapel website
;References
# / :Image:Arnold murray ministers license.jpg
#Shepherd's Chapel is registered as a non-profit under the "Soldiers of the Cross" name, in Arkansas. Verified at Arkansas Secretary of State Site: http://www.sosweb.state.ar.us/corps/search_all.php (Select "All Types"; Name: "Soldiers of the Cross"; RA: "Arnold B. Murray"; RA City: "Gravette"; RA State: "Arkansas" and search). [this item taken from the text verbatim]
# (similar how-to-search instructions given for this one)
#
#The Chosin Few
# / Kaplan, Jeffrey (2000). Encyclopedia of White Power: A Sourcebook on the Radical Racist Right. Rowman Altamira, 120. ISBN 0742503402.  - used only to verify that someone mentioned in passing in the article was, verfiably, a white supremacist
#Barkun, Michael (1997). Religion and the Racist Right: The Origins of the Christian Identity Movement. UNC Press, 54. ISBN 0807846384. - ditto
#a list of audio tapes he has produced can be found in the Wilcox Collection of the University of Kansas.KU Library Catalog (Search for "Arnold Murray")
Note that I do not endorse the text that comes with these links - they are clipped from a version of the article, with no particular consideration for which version. The text of most of these links may have changed throughout the versions. There were also tacit references to his sermons and "public records" in edit summaries, however, none were specific enough to be considered citation' of a source (allusion, perhaps). One version alludes to the Social Security Death Index, although again it is not cited.
;Significant (excluding non-vandalism/nonsense) versions in the page's history
* starting point
* expanded content, links added
* expanded content, added "views," more links added
* expanded content, lead split up better
* lead expanded subsantially, "teachings" replaces "views"
* shortened to exclude the lengthy, unsourced "teachings" section
* expanded slightly
* teachings re-added
* significant growth in content
* content trimmed/organized
* teachings and other content cut
* teachings re-added
* tangential content (eg. etymology of "Arnold") removed, handgun section added
* handgun section removed (content placed elsewhere)
* teachings section removed
* teachings section re-added
* teachings expanded somewhat
* history section expanded significantly
* many new sections created, most entirely unsourced
* even more sections created
* and yes, even more are created
* new sections removed per WP:V WP:RS etc
*lots of reverting back and forth here, I won't include them as distinct versions
* multiple issues identified, references section created
* references trimmed per WP:RS
* stubified (per WP:BLP, WP:V, etc)
I have compiled these as best I can and attempted to present them appropriately. I will be referring to them in comments I make regarding whether the article ever had reliable sources, or what kind of state the article has ever been in. --Cheeser1 (talk) 23:39, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Some of the above are links inserted by users which makes the article vandal-bait.  You are unfairly applying wikipedia templates to this situation and creating a lot of unnecessary discussion.  Just delete the article.Tss8071 (talk) 03:11, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps you are confused. Notability is not a template, it is a community standard. Articles that fail the relevant notability guidelines (in this case, biographies) are often subject to deletion because their subjects are not notable enough to be included in Wikipedia. Likewise, verifiability is a policy - information on Wikipedia must be verifiable and in the case of biographies, the standards for reliable sources are very high. These are not "templates," they are the rules and guidelines for how we construct articles. When an article does not meet those standards, and a consensus exists to delete them, they are deleted. --Cheeser1 (talk) 03:33, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources and Article History