Talk:Romania/Archive 3

message: Whoever wrote those got them (mostly) wrong. They are blown out of proportion for 2005 and 2006 and there's a couple of mistakes in the previous years as well (# of cell phone users for example). Pirlinho 18:55, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It would be great to have some sourced statistics. Some of them sound made up. The number of mobile phone users is indeed an exaggeration. Connex and Orange have each somewhere between 5 and 6 million clients and the other companies have less than a million together. So, there's no chance to be 16 million. bogdan | Talk 19:32, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Economic Indicators

message: User:86.105.71.34 keeps writing in a manner that seems to me more like a promotional brochure than an encyclopedia. "Romania has a very good technologically advanced market economy with substantial government participation. With very good natural resources, Romania has intensively developed its agricultural and industrial sectors over the past 20 years. Romania is largely self-sufficient in food production. High-technology, military equipment, software, pharmaceuticals, fine chemicals, and agricultural products (fruits, vegetables, and flowers) are leading exports. Romania possesses extensive facilities for oil refining and semiconductor fabrication. Romania's economy is nearly as large as the economies of all of its immediate neighbors added together."
None of this is exactly wrong, but it just strikes me as boosterish in a way that we don't usually write about countries. You'd never guess from reading this that "immediate neighbor" Hungary has a considerably higher per capita GDP. -- Jmabel | Talk 07:13, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Same contributor

message: Without a single new source being cited, the claimed number of Romanian-speakers has slowly edged up from 24.5 million to 29 million. I'm almost certain that the new number is too high. I don't have any specific expertise on this, it's just considerably higher than any number I've ever before seen for this. The usually reliable Ethnologue says "population total all countries: 23,498,367." . And, no, they are not counting Moldovan as a separate language. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:37, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Jmabel, I agree that there seems to be no basis put forward for this creep, and am restoring the previous value of 24.5m unless/until reliable citations are provided.--cjllw | TALK 02:58, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number of Romanian-speakers 

message: Right in the opening paragraph:
'Romania has become the dominant regional influence in economic, political, military, scientific, technological and cultural affairs.'
When was this added?  Seems like a fairly controversial statement, and not very NPOV. The Belgain 00:42, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dominant regional influence? 

message: Certainly useful information, but is it really useful to say how it compared to the previous month? Information like that dates rapidly, and fluctuates from month to month. Comparison to one year earlier would be a lot more useful. -- Jmabel | Talk 18:30, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The reason why information comparison is done to the nearest month is because that's how INSSE (the Romanian Statistics Office) provides the information in its monthly factsheets. For each month, it states the gross and net wage, and its increase over the previous month. Of course, the INSSE website also has an archive graph that shows the increase over each month in a table, and that could be used to calculate the increase for the past 12 months (i.e. if the reference date is September 2005, we could say by how much it's increased since September 2004, the next month the date would be October 2005, with a figure saying how much it's increased since October 2004, etc.). The table can be found here Ronline 11:33, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Average gross wage 

message: de Delia CHILIANU  
În România, 250.000 de copii şi tineri învaţă limba germană, dintre care 20.000 studiază această disciplină ca limbă maternă. La limba germană, atestatele se pot da fie în această limbă, fie în română şi permit accesul în învăţământul superior german. "E un lucru deosebit că în România avem atestat român şi atestat german. Astfel, România beneficiază de un program prin care Germania ne trimite anual 40 de profesori care predau la şcoli cu limba de predare maternă, dar şi cu limba modernă, cum ar fi Colegiul Caragiale din Bucureşti, unde avem doi profesori germani", a explicat inspectorul Silvia Florea din Ministerul Educaţiei.
Translation for the above text:
"===Over 250,000 romanian youngsters are learning German===
by Delia CHILIANU
In Romania, 250,000 children and youngsters are currently learning german, out of which, 20,000 are studying it as their first language. In German classes, tests can be taken in either German or Romanian, and they both allow access to superior education in German. "It's a special thing that in Romania there are both Romanian and German exams. Thus, Romania benefits from a program through which Germany is sending 40 teachers yearly, that teach at schools that have German as the first language, or  modern languages schools, like the Caragiale Gymnasium in Bucharest, where there are two German teachers." Education Inspector(from the Ministry of Education of Romania) Silvia Florea has stated."
Sufitul 08:13, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Peste 250.000 de tineri români învaţă germana 

message: I'd earlier attempted to change the phrase "...communists orchestrated the biggest election fraud of 1946" to "...communists declared victory in the 1946 elections amid widespread claims of extensive electoral fraud and manipulation", but was reverted by User:Bonaparte. To clarify, my difficulty with the "biggest election fraud of 1946" statement is more one of semantics, rather than necessarily disputing that such a fraud actually took place. By its literal and most natural reading, that phrase implies some comparison with other electoral frauds in that year, which I do not think is what this particular passage is trying to say. The "biggest" compared to what- Romanian elections in that year, any election in that year, Romanian elections of any year, any election of any year...? And if it really is supposed to mean "the biggest Romanian electoral fraud of all time", then by what measure, and according to what source? Does anyone else see a difficulty here, and can re-formulate to remove the ambiguity?--cjllw | TALK 01:53, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, I've had another go at rephrasing the passage.--cjllw | TALK 23:56, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  1946 elections 

message: Welcome to the Romanian Wikipedia notice board! This page is a portal for all Romanian-related topics and a place for Romanian editors to gather and socialize and debate. Discussions are encouraged, in both English and Romanian. Post any inquiry under their relevant category.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Romanian_Wikipedian%27s_notice_board
--Anittas 13:33, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia:Romanian Wikipedian's notice board 

message: http://www.zf.ro/articole/Patriciu-face-cea-mai-mare-achizitie-din-istoria-Romaniei-75992.html
În Franţa şi Spania, diaspora română depăşeşte un milion de persoane. In France and in Spain the romanian diaspora is more then 1 million persons. -- Bonaparte  talk 13:49, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: There are a wide range of estimates. I would suggest that Talk:Romanians is more the place to discuss this. -- Jmabel | Talk 07:51, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  În Franţa şi Spania, diaspora română depăşeşte un milion de persoane 

message: Hi everyone,
I think I have a clue as to why the estimates on the actual number of Romanian speakers vary so wildly. It all rests in how one defines Romanian. There are a number of idioms spoke throughout the Balkans which are either considered to be dialects of Romanian or languages separate from Romanian.
Megleno-Romanian is spoken in central Bulgaria by about 10,000 people (estimates are out of the top of my head), and is usually said to be a dialect of Romanian.
Istro-Romanian is spoken in Istria by less than 1,000 speakers. It is usually considered to be an independent, albeit dying language.
Aromanian (or Macedo-Romanian) is the bone of contention. It is spoken usually in mountainous regions in the Balkans, by (I think) a couple of million speakers. The reason why it is so contentious is most likely official history, as the status of Aromanians as a separate people has been very sensitive in Romania. I would not haste to offer any opinion on the issue, as I'm no expert myself, but maybe the best way of offering an estimate of the overall number of Romanian speakers would be including this caveat. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bogororo (talk • contribs) 22 Dec 2005
: I'm pretty sure there are only about half a million Aromanian speakers today.  Ethnologue says 306,237 speakers, in an ethnic population of "possibly 700,000".   In any event, our article on Romanian language is specific to Daco-Romanian; I'm pretty firmly of the opinion that these should not be counted as Romanian speakers, nor as Romanians. Yes, I'm sure that some sources count them in, including counting the ones who don't even speak Macedo-Romanian. (Which for counting the ethnicity may be fine, as long as the definition is clear, but for counting the language-speakers is clearly wrong, and in any event shouldn't be relevant to the Romania article.-- Jmabel | Talk 07:45, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I've met once a woman from Macedonia (FYROM). I asked her how many romanians there are in Macedonia. She told me, there are 7% Vlachs. If vlachs are aromanians than you have to compute how many there are in Macedonia.  Bonaparte  talk 10:58, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Wait, Bonaparte we "have to compute" this based on a remark casually made to you by a woman you once met? Not much of a citation. But in any event, we need to be clear whether the scope of this article does or does not include Balkan Vlachs. -- Jmabel | Talk 01:08, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number of Romanian Speakers 

message: This recent edit by NorbertArthur roughly doubles the size of three cities without citation or comment. Can someone explain what is going on here? -- Jmabel | Talk 08:58, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've reverted that vandalism and added the user on my black list. --Mihai -talk 09:08, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Size of cities 

message: "Romanians take pride in being the most eastern Romance people, completely surrounded by non-Latin peoples ("an island of Latinity")."
Moldova is further east and uses the same (let's not get into the moldovan/romanian argument...) language so surely they are further east romance people. --Horses In The Sky 16:21, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It states Romanians, and Romanians live also in Moldova, so as long as it is not Romania I think it is OK. Mihai -talk 16:29, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

text: A reminder that the policy against abusive remarks toward other users applies to remarks directed at anonymous users as well. - Jmabel | Talk 01:28, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  An island of Latinity 

message: Does this look peculiar to other people besides myself? I mean come on, almost 10% in a single month? And please note the previous growth, which was almost equally outrageous, given the entire country's GDP growth of less than 6% for the entire year... I really don't think that's possible, do we have any sources? --Gutza T T+ 20:49, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wages 

message: I would like to know why the old royal motto of Romania keeps appearing on an infobox that shows current information. I don't think it belongs there as it is potentially misleading and confusing, and I prefer it be removed and put somewhere else. Alr 03:07, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Royal motto 

message: I think the statement that Hungarians deem Matthias Corvin Hungarian because of his mother's lineage is simply wrong. Every King of Hungary is deemed Hungarian in Hungary even if they weren't of Hungarian descent. (Even Franz Josef I had been regarded as a Hungarian king even though nobody thought seriously that he was of Hungarian nationality). But anyway, even if that wasn't true, Hungarians would consider him Hungarian through lineage as well, again, not because of his mother but because of the family's belonging to Hungary's nobility. I remember a Hungarian history textbook, which explains the family's Romanian origin in detail but it avoids the silly question whether he himself was a Hungarian or a Romanian person. I don't think that he's nationality has ever been an issue in Hungary, the ethnicity issue just doesn't make much sense in the case of most European royal and noble families. Cukor 00:35, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Matthias Corvinus 

message: There are NO citations for any of these statistics. Somebody come up with some or this section is getting removed. GT 08:32, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Main indicators of the ROMANIA's economy

message: I started an article about Hugo Jan Huss.He was a symphony conductor and music director.He was born in Romania and died in La Crosse, Wisconsin.Hugo Jan Huss was quite prominent in Romania.Would someone please look at the article.I am a little nervous about it.If you have to expand or rewrite the articles, please keep the sources section intact.Thanks.RFD 16:46, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hugo Jan Huss