Talk:Hang Tuah

message: There is a lot of confusion going around regarding Hang Tuah's ethnicity. History tells us the truth about Hang Tuah that he is a Malay in ethnicity but some confused persons are creating an obviously false theory (opinion) on him.
They try to change true facts about Hang Tuah and other Hangs just because of the title "Hang" in front of their names.
As told in history records, "Hang" was a title given to "people who have done good deeds for the state" and "as well as the bravery spirits shown". 
It was also stated that Li Po (a princess from China with her original name) was given the title "Hang" by Sultan Mansur Shah, due to her "bravery" shown in "adapting herself in a foreign country (Malacca)" while being his wife. The false theory-makers have been confusing about the title "Hang".But not true
They are also making others confused by concluding the five warriors names reflect Chinese ethnicity just because of the title "Hang" in their names. Trying to change history, they change those names to make them (the 5 warriors' names) sound like Chinese names. For example Hang Tuah (Tuah meaning "luck" in Malay) changed to Hang Too Ah; Hang Jebat changed to Hang Jee Fatt; Hang Lekir changed to Hang Lee Ker, and Hang Lekiu changed to Hang Lee Kiew. Look, they changed to make them sound just like Chinese, just to create confusion in people (while they are in confusion, too).
Are they aware of other unrecorded Malay words/meanings in the dictionary? There are many meanings of Malay names that are not recorded; the Malay words from other dialects and other subethnics such as from Bugis, Patani Malays, Kedahan Malays, Kelantanese Malays, Satun Malays, Champa Malays (in Cambodia and Vietnam), Minangkabau Malays, Orang Laut Malays, and much more.
Are they aware of other titles in Malay? Malays have titles other than "Hang" such as "Wan", "Tun", "Tan" (less known by people), "Nung" (in Riau), "Che'", "Che'Wan" (combined from Che and Wan), "Nik", "Ku", "Teuku", "Long" (in Kelantan royal families) and many more. There are also titles like "Tengku", "Abang" (in Sarawak), "Dayang" (for women, in Sarawak), "Awangku" (in Brunei), Dayangku (for women, in Brunei), and many more. 
All of those titles are passed on by their bearers to their families. Looking at these, why don't they claim that all the bearers of those titles are Chinese as well?
'''
P/S: Dear violaters of the article and the creator of false theories (opinion), please use your wise thinking. Think about it deeply.
Please do not change true facts of history especially when talking about names in history records.
Mr. Knows (talk) 13:36, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Hang" is one of Malay titles 

message: According to Sejarah Melayu(History of Malays), Hang Tuah did not actually originate from Malacca but from Sulawesi. Hang Tuah is actually a present from the Sultan of Bugis to the Sultan of Malacca. 
Malay is an open race equate to Islam and more cultural than genetic leniage. Being along trade route intermariagges was possible only on one condition convesion to Islam ,The religion Parameswara (1344 – 1414) was a Hinduism-Melayu prince (from Palembang district of Srivijaya Empire) that founded Melaka around 1402 and converted to Islam,Title Sultan Iskandar Shah and Married to Muslim Princess of Pasai.
Properity of Malacca attract many including Tuah father from Bentan.Hang was not a family name but a Title thus we have Hang Tuah,Hang Lekir,Hang Nadim. Infact in Kedah "Hang" is used to mean you and "Hangpa" means you all.Probably first used as a sign of respect in reference to someone else which gentle culture of Malay.Like Dato a title in Royal Court is use commonly in respect of Grandfather. Tok Wan (Datok Wan) is refered to Grand father . Wan is a title of respect for royal relatives.
Hang Lekir or Hang Jebat run Amok?
With Hang Tuah disappearence Hang Jebat was given Laksamana ship he more likely did not revolt but Hang Kasturi di as told by Sejarah Melayu or Both of them revolted one after the other.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.93.152.23 (talk) 03:49, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no debate whatsoever. Please produce a reliable source to back up your claims. Borisblue 07:19, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hang Tuah did not originate from Malacca 

message: From the discussion threads that there are still on going discusion on the race of Hang Tuah, is he Malay or Chinese. Just to add some more issues (instead of resolving the existing ones):
- I have read somewhere that he was born and raised in Sungai Duyong, Melaka and that his father is a fisherman (a normal occupation for malay in that age)
- regarding Jebat's DNA, some report says that he had a son with one of the dayangs named Hang Kadim/Nadim and the Bendahara hid him when being ordered by the Sultan to eradicate Jebat's family, thus providing channel for the DNA test. However, i might have miss on something, when and who have conducted these DNA testings?
- I agree that the HANG in Hang Li Po was awarded by the Sultan after her arrival and that is not the family name of the princess
- The Malacca Sultanate wears yellow in respect of the Ming Dynasty, in sense of the existence of relationship between the two kingdom and the Sultan feels that he has the same status as the Ming, thus he elected to wear yellow as symbol of power and sovereignty, just like the Mings
That's my issues so far
DEMIGODICARUS (talk) 10:21, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  What I understand so far... 

message: I do not see the problem with putting in a section in the article mentioning the Chinese/Malay dispute. While I myself do not put much stock in the allegations, I actually came here looking for some information about the issue and was surprised to find no mention of it whatsoever. The dispute itself inarguably exists, and a simple Google search reveals thousands of discussions about it. I would say that regardless of Hang Tuah's actual lineage, the dispute itself has grown large enough to warrant a mention.
Wahming (talk) 05:09, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Please consult WP:OR __earth (Talk) 10:13, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sorry, what? I am not putting forward any OR. I am mentioning that a dispute exists. That is not research, that's a plain fact. Wahming (talk) 03:49, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The dispute exists in chain mail that you get through email. Please find credible sources as requested by the WP:OR policy to prove it. Without citation, a lot of these junk mails could be passed as fact simply because it "exists". __earth (Talk) 03:55, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

text: Nice story. Just like all of your edits which aren't based on fact. (Never mind the fact that I oppose the NEP). Talking about sockpuppet, funny that sock puppets usually have links to their persona as red due to their single purpose account nature. __earth (Talk) 16:37, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

text: And why would a neutral admin agree with me? Is it because I control wikipedia? What more conspiracy theory do you have? The truth is, you are obviously unfamiliar with Wikipedian policies and are blaming me for your ignorance. Well, I won't answer to any of your agitation anymore because it is unproductive. But I will continue to refer to admin for any edit that violates Wikipedian policies, including yours. I don't do stuff at whim, unlike you which have no respect for process at all. AND, you are obviously taking this personally... cool down. If you have trouble with me, talk to an admin. __earth (Talk) 03:54, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Just mention the Malay/Chinese controversy in the article? 

message: There's too much  Original Research going on in this page, and unfortunately also in the article. It needs clean up to remove stuff not based on Reliable Sources.  If anyone wants to help, here are a list of journal articles I found about Hang Tuah. 
* http://www.jstor.org/stable/27864152?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
* http://www.jstor.org/stable/41492013?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
* http://www.jstor.org/stable/27863079?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
* http://www.jstor.org/stable/41561372?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
* http://www.jstor.org/stable/41492219?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
* http://www.jstor.org/stable/25817718?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
* http://www.jstor.org/stable/41491844?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
* http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13639810304447?journalCode=cimw20
* http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=4425832&fileId=S0022463400000308
* http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=90305&fileId=S0022463401000170
* http://www.jstor.org/stable/27865542?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
* http://booksandjournals.brillonline.com/content/journals/10.1163/22134379-90003921%3Fcrawler%3Dtrue
* http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13639810601130267
* https://books.google.com.hk/books?hl=en&lr=&id=9uyuHAXBuRkC&oi=fnd&pg=PA333&dq=hang+tuah+&ots=J7mSrrYbDR&sig=G9VO1GOj459docLdQqxthCPTlFY&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=hang%20tuah
* http://www.jstor.org/stable/1523202?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
* http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/01436599814442
Also, a list of newspaper articles:
* http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2012/01/22/Is-Hang-Tuah-fact-or-fiction/
* http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/opinion/2012/01/24/a-historian-takes-on-a-warrior/
* http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/187170
* http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/186895
* http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/hang-tuah-not-a-good-leader-says-ex-pm
* http://asiancorrespondent.com/73936/refute-of-warriors-existence-throws-malaysians-into-confusion/
* http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2012/04/10/ministry-hang-tuah-is-like-robin-hood/
* http://toglobalist.org/2012/11/the-once-and-past-king-2/
Let's make sure this article is well sourced. Darx9url (talk) 08:14, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too much Original Research going on in this page 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: suggest to put add word "legendary" on his edit, which I oppose. One of his argument is other article also use that word, which is basically WP:OTHERCONTENT, and such arguments should be avoid to use on discussion pages. 
MOS:PEACOCK explicitly mentioned that Legendary as words to watch. MOS:PEACOCK also state . Therefore the only acceptable uses of that word if you have reference that explicitly mentioned the status of Hang Tuah as Legendary. Ckfasdf (talk) 02:17, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Well there is an "imparting of information" in this sense. Stating he is "legendary" means he is of a mythical status (like King Arthur). But if the editor Yekshemesh can provide a source that specifically states the word "legendary" then that would make more people happy Danial Bass (talk) 21:03, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  In case of King Arthur, Encyclopædia Britannica explicitly stated that he is legendary British king, see https://www.britannica.com/topic/King-Arthur . So the usage of "legendary" is accepted there per MOS:PEACOCK. Ckfasdf (talk) 23:35, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Legendary?