Talk:Nemzeti dal

message: I just got around to thinking we needed this page!  Kudos to the translator but I feel like the version here misses out on a lot due to the lack of rhyming and emphasis... I do have a version that does not have copyrite issues on it that takes care of this, would anyone have a particular preference? (Quick example, the refrain in this version is "to the God of the Magyar we swear to thee, we swear to thee, that slaves we shall no longer be.")  Just a thought. Andromeda321 00:28, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Translation comments

message: I'm quite sure the real title of the poem is "Nemzeti dal", so the current title "Nemzeti Dal" is wrong.  However, the title is also mentioned a few times in the article, which is making me uncertain.  Could anyone please either confirm which title is correct?  If there's no answer in some time, I'll fix the title in the text and move the article.   – b_jonas 21:21, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Retitle to [[Nemzeti dal]] 

message: The author of the article says : "Petőfi read the poem aloud on March 15 in Vörösmarty Square in Budapest to a gathering crowd, which by the end was chanting the refrain as they began to march around the city, seizing the presses, liberating political prisoners, and declaring the end of Austrian rule." There are two problems with this sentence.
The first is, that Vörösmarty tér was not existing in 1848 at all. There was a square more and less at the same location called Színház tér (Theater Platz), but it was definitely not the same as the present one. The present sqare had gradually been built during the second half of the 19th century and it became the same as we know it today only by 1870 (with the completion of the so-called Haas-building, which was demolished during WW2). The square was then named "Gizella tér" (named after the elder daughter of Emperor Franz Josef the 1st). In 1908 the statue of the Hungarian poet Vörösmarty Mihály was erected in the middle of the square and in 1925 the whole square was renamed after him.
The second problem is, that according to all Hungarian history books, stories, etc. and also common knowledge the poem was first read by Petőfi on the stairs of the National Museum to the crowd gathering in the garden of the building. This legend, however, has never been proven by reliable historical sources, but as kind of a canonized legend it is known even by children and the act is repeated every year at the same place during the official celebrations on March 15 (the coreography of the event changes year by year, but a common point is, that Nemzeti dal is read from the stairs). Historians sometimes doubt whether the poem was read to the public at all, some for example sais that it was only performed by Cafe Pilvax, where Petőfi and friends (the so-called "Márciusi ifjak", meaning March Youth) were gathering during the morning of March 15, 1848. But in case it had been read at all, this should probably have been occured somewhere else than at the then Tehater Platz as the crowd gathered at the National Museum and if they later crossed Theater Platz (going to the Buda Castle to meet the Resident Council or "Helytartótanács" in Hungarian, and to free another poet and national hero, Táncsics Mihály) at all, they probably did not stop there at all, as there was no point to do so.
All in all I suggest to change the sentence in the article as follows (certainly, my English may be brushed without any prior consent:-) : "According to the legend Petőfi read the poem aloud on March 15, 1848 from the stairs of the National Museum to a gathering crowd...." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Selmeczig (talk • contribs) 20:48, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where the poem "Nemzeti dal" was first read to the public 

message: You cannot swear "on" God, you can only swear "to" God in English.  I've changed the translation with a reference to the original source.  This preserves the quote, but corrects the translation.  It is a common method used in scholarly works to preserve the original quote, but correct the translation. (Taivo (talk) 03:59, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I changed "Magyar" to "Hungarian".  There is no distinction between Magyar and Magyarok other than singular and plural.  All changes in the translation should be discussed here on the Talk Page first, as this one was.  --Taivo (talk) 16:00, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation Errors 

message: Hello all,
I've already addressed this issue in the past with Taivo, and another analogous discussion can be found at Talk:Himnusz. Yes, translations are changed in academia; no, wikipedia is not academia. I wish the issue at hand was just something petty like my pride, so I could  get over it and we'd all be happy. However, that particular translation is found online -- here -- and is therefore "set in stone," as it were. It reflects the specific stylistic choices and linguistic opinions of the translator. That happens to be me in this case, but the consequence would be the same with anyone: it cannot be changed and remain attributable to the translator, and it cannot be un-attributed without being WP:OR. And I've seen plenty of good translations, even of single sentences, yanked for just that reason. So, here it is: the translation remains as it is, or it gets removed entirely. Attributed quotes do not fall into the public domain, like the rest of Wikipedia does, and can be removed at the author's discretion. To get another translation online, it NEEDS to be attributed to someone else, and then again, it can't be changed. There's a crappy rhyming one floating about someplace, use that if you wish. Good luck, everyone.
Korossyl (talk) 20:59, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Changing Translation 

message: Isn't it: 
 Translated by: KŐRÖSSY LÁSZLÓ 
a WP:COPYVIO copyright violation ;)? Is this gentleman a Wikipedian who agreed to it? Zezen (talk) 00:29, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: This article was originally written by the translator.  The last time anyone looked at it was several years ago and the translator's website no longer exists as far as I can tell (at least the link no longer works).  But this isn't really any different than hundreds of different translations found throughout Wikipedia as long as it is properly attributed (which this one is).  --Taivo (talk) 00:39, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

text: I think I got it fixed.  Thanks for the input--it's been four years since I last visited this page.  --Taivo (talk) 03:11, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

text: I have no problem leaving the translation as it has been for the last four years, just correcting the website address and removing the "more pleasing" nonsense in the footnote link to the other translation.  "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."  --Taivo (talk) 19:07, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I was curious if there were other translations out there that might avoid WP:COPYVIO and WP:COI, but found only two English translations out there--Wikipedia's and the rhyming one (which I think is a fairly bad translation).  I didn't find any others.  --Taivo (talk) 19:16, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I forgot, there is a third one, but it is also "unsatisfactory" and rhymes:  "On your feet now, Hungary calls you! / Now is the moment, nothing stalls you,"  Yuck.  --Taivo (talk) 19:19, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Copyright?