Talk:Gothic Lolita

message: Is it really necessary to have a link to lolitafashion.org in every single imaginable article surrounding Gothic Lolita? --84.169.125.144 (talk) 19:01, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Linkspamming by lolitafashion.org 

message: The label is in frequent misuse, and really applies only to followers of the gothic rock/deathrock subculture, which is almost completely underground. Everything else that has come to be associated with the term is really from widespread media misusage of it.
A lot disturbances and so called mis-esteem over what is gothic cause of irrational but I'll pretend to be psychic one time and say a "punk/goth" or "Goth/Rock" is going to explain their frustrations with creativity. Right  I don't acknowledge disbelief with the goth section being overruled (though bias) but how old is goth term or gothic? Surely I can believe a religion or a Bram Stoker Novel so heres a PROPER REFERENCE: goth·ic      /ˈgɒθɪk/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[goth-ik] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1.	(usually initial capital letter) noting or pertaining to a style of architecture, originating in France in the middle of the 12th century and existing in the western half of Europe through the middle of the 16th century, characterized by the use of the pointed arch and the ribbed vault, by the use of fine woodwork and stonework, by a progressive lightening of structure, and by the use of such features as flying buttresses, ornamental gables, crockets, and foils.
2.	(usually initial capital letter) pertaining to or designating the style of painting, sculpture, etc., produced between the 13th and 15th centuries, esp. in northern Europe, characterized by a tendency toward realism and interest in detail.
3.	(initial capital letter) of or pertaining to Goths or their language.
4.	(usually initial capital letter) of or pertaining to the music, esp. of northern Europe, of the period roughly from 1200 to 1450, including that of the Ars Antiqua, Ars Nova, and the Burgundian school.
5.	(usually initial capital letter) pertaining to the Middle Ages; medieval.
6.	(sometimes initial capital letter) barbarous or crude.
7.	(often initial capital letter) noting or pertaining to a style of literature characterized by a gloomy setting, grotesque, mysterious, or violent events, and an atmosphere of degeneration and decay: 19th-century gothic novels.
8.	(initial capital letter) noting or pertaining to the alphabetical script introduced for the writing of Gothic by Ulfilas and derived by him from Greek uncials with the addition of some Latin and some invented letters.
9.	(often initial capital letter) being of a genre of contemporary fiction typically relating the experiences of an often ingenuous heroine imperiled, as at an old mansion, where she typically becomes involved with a stern or mysterious but attractive man.
–noun
10.	(usually initial capital letter) the arts and crafts of the Gothic period.
11.	(initial capital letter) the extinct Germanic language of the Goths, preserved esp. in the 4th-century translation by Ulfilas of the Bible. Abbreviation: Goth, Goth., goth.
12.	(often initial capital letter) a story, play, film, or other work in the gothic style.
13.	(usually initial capital letter) British. black letter.
14.	(often initial capital letter) a square-cut printing type without serifs or hairlines.
NOW DO I SEE A SINGLE PUNK or ROCK WORD IN HERE TO PROVE YOU GOTH/ROCK or GOTH/PUNKs (consider by faculty other goths not punk or rock inferior) THE CREATORS OF THE TERM GOTHIC or let alone the DICTIONARY? Normal punks or punk/goths or goth/rockers hate fascism but uniquely you like degrading and lowering the standards for others in term of the total classification as goth. So is it a crime for anyone to want to be called Emoth (Emo+Goth), Lolita Goth ect. Reference note for goth definition is found at http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gothic. LAST NOTE: Do all punks have to be sXe to be punk? Does sXe be better than Goth Punk or maybe normal Punk? There really isn't a category for a compulsory punk so could I have an punk's/rocker intelligent rebate to answer my query why punk/rocker gets more royal variety treatment over other types or "want to claim" types (like goth) to the extent not being called authoritarian? Not any backlashing just a human view from a intelligent kind punk or goth/rocker (there must be one). --ForsakenPoppet (talk) 12:00, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "goths"

message: Here some online text tha can be used for inline citations -> http://www.lerman.biz/asagao/gothic_lolita/research1.html . —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.50.154.66 (talk) 03:07, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: * I've made a mistake. Gyaru fashion started coming in as a fashion in the 70s as well, but it didn't get insanely popular until the 90s. But Gyaru and Lolita fashion has always been conflicting, they're polar opposites, they will never mix together right. This page shows a translation of the "Rococo Vol. 1" magazine about the 'timeline of gosuloli', which shows the timelines and influences and connections of the fashion, which includes the birth of the major sweet lolita brands. BTW, I still fail to see what can be cited from that article, because there are a lot of errors or untrue information about the styles in there. Especially parts like calling the Gothic Lolitas "Goths", and whatnot. Sorry to seem like I'm being a major bitch, I'm just trying to keep the fashion from being misinterpreted anymore than it is. Ahmanni 01:40, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources of references 

message: This article is inaccurate. I've stated it in the Lolita_Fashion and deleted it from there as well. Sweet Lolita and the Sweet Lolita brands were already out about a decade before Gyaru fashion even came up in the 90's, so I have no clue what the author was talking about. It is really misleading.
If anyone have any questions or concerns, get back at me.
* Sorry, didn't notice your note here. I think the operating principle here is Wikipedia:Verifiability, which says, "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth." Especially in an article which is tagged for being unsourced, removal of an article on the subject from a large newspaper like Mainichi Shimbun would not be appropriate. Articles which are tagged as unsourced and OR are often nominated for deletion for those reasons. So, even if totally inaccurate, the article at least shows evidence of coverage in the media. I don't edit at this article, but if I did, I would use the news article to cite facts that it does get right. For the facts it gets wrong, don't use this article as a source-- hopefully a better one can be found. But as evidence of "Notability" and coverage, I think the article is still valuable. Dekkappai 19:58, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: * I've made a mistake. Gyaru fashion started coming in as a fashion in the 70s as well, but it didn't get insanely popular until the 90s. But Gyaru and Lolita fashion has always been conflicting, they're polar opposites, they will never mix together right. This page shows a translation of the "Rococo Vol. 1" magazine about the 'timeline of gosuloli', which shows the timelines and influences and connections of the fashion, which includes the birth of the major sweet lolita brands. BTW, I still fail to see what can be cited from that article, because there are a lot of errors or untrue information about the styles in there. Especially parts like calling the Gothic Lolitas "Goths", and whatnot. Sorry to seem like I'm being a major bitch, I'm just trying to keep the fashion from being misinterpreted anymore than it is. Ahmanni 01:40, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mainichi Shimbun 

message: Is posible to add some ethimology of the history of the word, the use of "gothic" and "lolita" to describe the style? --66.50.154.66 14:03, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Gothic Lolita is what happens to Goth when it has to satisfy the Japanese Minimun Cuteness Laws... T ConX 22:03, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ethimology 

message: It says in the list that there is a GothLoli character in Fruits Basket.  Who? If whoever posted it was referring to Hanajima Saki,  then they are mistaken--  Hana-chan is just gothic, she's not a lolita.  Dark Chi (AKA Freya)  in Chobits is also not really GothLoli, she shows too much skin.  Were they talking about someone else and I missed it?
I won't argue Hana-Chan but as a fashion enthusiast I greatly denote your view on Dark Chi with the Teenie (10-11) age look and Victorian dress (victorian attire is considered gothic) so Lolita (age) + Victorian fashion (gothic) = Gothic Lolita in unless blurred vision. How could a Victorian dress with a girl (or mistaken a robot girl aka chobit) looking in 10-11 (sincerely) be not Lolita/Gothic? --ForsakenPoppet (talk) 12:24, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of GothLoli in manga misleading? 

message: Harajuku, Visual kei, and Gothic and Lolita are all very important articles that need to be properly sourced, and these three articles are key in working together.  Gothic and Lolita is used to describe the whole subculture of "girls on the bridge" in Harajuku - including the "punk" and "visual kei cosplayers" - for a quick confirmation check the Japanese version of this article.  We want to make a Gothic and Lolita section of the Visual Kei article, to talk about the culture, and link here.  "Lolita fashion" should be the main fashion article (it seems pretty well written, and just needs to be sourced).  This article currently duplicates a lot of the Lolita Fashion article. Just some thoughts on how to organize the pages - and I'm perfectly willing to accept suggestions/comments about the idea. There is a good study done by a sociology student (English) about the "subculture" as well as a report by NHK (Japanese TV station) that follows students from the bridge, to other activies, as well as interviewing thier parents (In Japanese).  There are some other articles I have access that discuss it as well. Denaar 22:21, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Explanation

message: I am a little puzzled about a few of the lolita style in mangas.  Vampire Knight is not a good example of the loli style.  They wear tipical uniforms and Yuki's dresses aren't loli either.  xxxHolic does feature two girls in maid outfits, but they aren't really lolitas.  They are just Yuko-San's helpers.  A better example is Godchild.  Also, Nana Kitade is the punk lolita princess.  TokyoPop has published the Gothic and Lolita Bible, which is available in the US.  The manga Doll is also a very good example of loli dress.
Risdpanda (talk) 22:38, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Manga Section 

message: I've removed the part that says "gothic lolita costume" and left it as "gothic lolita". Lolita =/= cosplay.
Also, removed Death Note and Vampire Knight. Misa isn't a lolita and there are none in VK, if so, I want proof. 65.92.65.27 (talk) 12:06, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Costume 

message: And don't even get me started on cp.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.189.173.198 (talk) 04:01, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Normal loli is better, no? 

message: From the article (currently the last section of the article):
The "emo" and "scene" fashion is commonly mistaken with lolita fashion because of its similarities yet if anything, that has sprouted out of the lolita fashion and gone into America and Europe especially.
I can't even tell decipher what this sentence is trying to say. Also, shouldn't the terms emo and scene be internal links, just like every second word in every wikipedia article ever? I'd try fixing it but I don't see much point in trying to fix such trivial errors until the statement itself is made comprehensible. Could also do with a [citation needed]; it sounds an awful lot like opinions and speculation, but then again, that's just, like, my opinion, man. Lootsorrow (talk) 06:50, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Statement" 

message: DOES HAVE LOLITA! its just heavily influenced by the males, not females. just because females wear it the most doesnt mean males dont!DeathBerry talk 16:45, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pandora Hearts 

message: The last time I checked, Gothic Lolita is just a subset of Lolita Fashion, right? So why exactly does it merit it's own article? I'm redirecting this to the section on gothloli in the main lolita article.~Sana (talk) 16:10, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I see that it was reverted. Perhaps suggest a merge with a merge tag?  I'll support it.--Knulclunk (talk) 03:17, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lolita_fashion#Gothic_Lolita_merge_proposal~Sana (talk) 18:48, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Could just be me but...