Talk:Ski

message: There are many missunderstandigs of skiing mechanic (forces, bending deformations of skis, torsional deformations of skis)in general and also in porfessional public. Statment like "While old fashioned "straight skis" which had little side cut could carve turns, great leg strength was required to generate the enormous pressure necessary to flex them into a curved shape, a shape called reverse camber. " reapear in the text. This is copletly wrong and misleading. It is even contradictory to the very next sentence "When a modern ski is tilted on to its edge, a gap is created between the ground and the middle of the ski (under the binding) as only the sides near the tip and the tail touch the snow. Then, as the skier gently applies pressure, the ski bends easily into reverse camber." Therefore I ask some native speaker to correct this and write it in proper English (not like mine:-) taking into account following:
1. Bending of the ski on the edge depends on sidecut only - make following experiment: stand still on the slope with your skis edged. Ask one of your friends to observe the ski and anotherone to climb on your back. Even in moderatly soft snow, the ski will not bend more because of additional load, this can happen only in deep powder. 
2. Skier can apply pressure to the ski. This statment contradict with Newtonian mechanic. Forces on skier are result of acceleration (speed and turn radius) and not result of muscularactivity. Inertia of body mass is producing force to the ski! Therefore independent of ski construction or skiers ability, skiing the same curve with the same speed will produce exacly the same force on skis. Corect statement is: Inertial forces on skier generate load on the ski (please help to repair this).
3. Carving turn is a geometrical problem. Carving turn is possible only when curve of the turn and curve of the ski edge on the snow have same radius AND same center. Practicaly edging angle (angle between running base and snow surface) can be between 0 and 60 degrees and therefore carving radius can be between sidecut radius and 1/2 of sidecut radius (Carving radius = cos (edging angle)* sidecut radius) (see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carve_turn)
4. "The ski is turned by applying pressure, rotation and edge angle". I have already explained why applying pressure is not possible - it is the end result, not the reason. There are two types of turns: carving turn and skidding turn with different mechanics. I have explained carving turn already, so let me explain skidding turn in short: Skidding turn starts with rotating skis out of direction of skiing by either external momentum (ski pole...) or internal twist of skiers body. From this point on diffeence in edging friction between portion of the ski in front of center of gravitiy and behind center of gravity (please note - not ski boot, but center of gravity) starts to rotate the skier. If center of gravity is behind 'neutral point' the ski will rotate to support the turn (it will rotate in the direction of the turn). At the same time skier must increase edging angle to increase overal edging friction. This will result friction force pependecular to the ski. Because the ski is not pointed in the direction of skiing, only one component of edging friction will be pependecular to direction of skiing and will force skier into curved path. The other component will be used for drag only and will reduce acceleration because of 'downhill' orientation of the skier during the turn. At the end of the turn skier moves the center of gravity forward of neutral point and resulting difference in friction between part of the ski in fornt and behind center of gravity will procude momentum that will stop rotation and skier can therefore sart another turn or continue to ski straight. 
Above explanations and theory is supported by measurements and this model is used in the industry (in R&D departments, not in marketing or racing departments :-) 
Because this article is rated important and Strat-class at the same time, please translate above into more english form 
Jurij Franko  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jurefr (talk • contribs) 17:52, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alpine ski 

message: I deleted the following nonsense:
"Snow skis glide on snow because downward pressure, as well as heat from surface friction, melts a thin layer of snow directly under the ski.  This creates a very thin layer of water directly under the ski upon which the ski glides.  Ski wax is used to decrease drag by increasing the water repellent properties of the base."
If anything it could be rewritten to make clear that the reason a lot of things slide on ice is very complicated, and that although it was previously thought to be the case melting due to friction or pressure does not play a role, even in ice skating.   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.243.195.138 (talk) 19:16, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Old myth 

message: Are the latest edits here better suited under skiing rather than "ski"? - See revision WinterOfDiscontent 09:38, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think they should be moved to skiing, since they are more about the sport than the equipment. This article should be "a technical article" about different ski types. But I also think this article should have a history of skiis.Labongo 19:28, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  History of ski or skiing 

message: Is the difference between the backcountry ski and
the alpine touring ski pronouced enough to justify two separate 
categories? The two seem to be functionally identical.
The descriptions only suggest differences in the
manufacturers or the part of the world they are used in.
I suggest combining the two!
Much may better be moved to ski or skiing. Patrick 13:01 Jan 6, 2003 (UTC)
Exactly! The austrian alpine history can also be placed under alpine skiing.
This article needs to be synchronised and heavily cross-linked with the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skiing  page.
"Telemark" is a county in Norway, and the Telemark should cover that IMHO.
"Telemark" is also a downhill skiing event with traditions from Telemark, and should have an article, I would suggest "Telemark skiing" 
"Telemark" is not a synonym for "ski"
YES Renebach 12:19, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Backcountry & Alpine Separated? 

message: The following revision keeps getting thrown in, "Straight skis can not be used to carve turns short enough to be practicaly useful for simple geometrical reason."  I'd guess this was written by someone who either has never skied on a straight ski or never learned how to do it right.  If you don't believe straight skis can make a tight carve, watch Glen Plake on his 218 straights ski circles around pros on shaped skis.--Atomicskier 16:18, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Carving on straight skis

message: Hi Atomicskier!
I have been skiing straights skis for quite long time togehter with world cup racers:-) The whole idea of carving skis started with geometrical definition: Threre is no skidding if every point of the ski edge travels trough the single point on the snow surface, hope you agree! This is only possible when radius of a turn is equal to the shape of the ski edge on the snow. It is common misunderstanding that the ski will deform proportional to the force of the skier to surface. But take any ski (straight or carving) and press it flat to the flat surface (table, floor, snow) and you will learn that from the moment the ski underfoot touches the surface, it will not deform any more. The same will hapen if you press it angulated. So the deformation of the ski is not proportional to the load any more but is defined by sidecut only. The shape of the ski edge on the slope when the ski is angulated is aproximately sidecut radius * cos (angulation angle). As a result, straight ski with sidecut of 50m will carve turn with radius between 25 and 50 (60 degrees angulation) and ski with sidecut radius of 12 m will carve between 6 and 12m radius. There is a lot more stuff behind this short explanation but you can check my short comments in http://skiinghistory.org/sidecut.html. I tried to be very precise in straight ski carving definition and I hope now you understand why. If you need additional explanations or have any other questions, let me know.
Jurij Franko —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jurefr (talk • contribs) 15:36, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Carving on straight skis

message: Hi,
The section "Modern Skis" reference Norheim, but without his full name and without linking to his wiki bio page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sondre_Norheim), something of an omission, I think, esp. wrt. the first point; it makes the paragraph somewhat enigmatic. 
PLS some EN native speakers correct this ...?
MVH, T 2001:4610:A:5E:0:0:0:713F (talk) 01:37, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sondre? 

message: Not clear what this means - it isn't natural English, at least when referring to a period that ended only 15 years ago. If it means 'the late 20th century', that's what should be there. I've just found (and corrected) another piece of incorrect English ('has been used' referring to a period that has now ended - that should read 'was used'), and now suspect this whole article was written by a non-native user of English. Especially on a subject as important as ski-ing, that's really not a good idea!213.127.210.95 (talk) 16:43, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Elsewhere, it was rendered as 1800s, in fact such skis were being manufactured as late as 1930. Non-native speakers are welcome to edit here with the understanding, as with all editors, that some cleanup may be required! User:HopsonRoad 00:18, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  'The late 1900s' 

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