Talk:Christianity/Archive 22

message: Here are some more points that need citations:
Afterlife section:
* "There is, however, some debate on this point [purgatory] within Eastern Christianity.[citation needed]"
* "Some maintain that only the righteous will be resurrected. [citation needed]"
History and origins section:
* "The monastic life spread to many parts of the Christian empire during the 4th and 5th centuries, as many felt[citation needed] that the Christian moral and spiritual life was compromised by the change from a persecuted minority cult to an established majority religion, and sought to regain the purity of early faith by fleeing society."
So, does anyone have cites for any of the four "citation needed" tags? Arch O. La Grigory Deepdelver 14:26, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other citations needed 

message: Saying "Christians profess monotheism" instead of "Christianity is monotheistic" is like saying "Christian dogma says Christian dogma believes in one God." Monotheism by definition professes a belief. Saying "Christianity is a monotheistic religion" is exactly the same as saying "Christianity believes there exists one God." This is supported by ALL Christian sects or declarations of belief and, wait, DICTIONARIES! So please stop replacing 1) sourced content with original research and 2) a sourced definition with your own. The fact that Christians believe there exists one God--whether they profess it or not, and whether anyone else in the whole wide world believes them--by definition makes them monotheistic. —Aiden 20:23, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Saying "Christians profess monotheism" instead of "Christianity is monotheistic" is like saying "2+2" instead of "4." But, perhaps I am showing my own confessional bias. Arch O. La Grigory Deepdelver 23:13, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

text: No, it discusses a fact, claiming that Christians believe. But one cannot know what Christians believe, as that would require God-like power to see into men's hearts. For example, it is a dogma that all those who believe, are saved. Merely professing to believe is not enough, according to this dogma. But no one can know who truly believes, and who doesn't, therefore no one can claim that it is a fact they are saved. Only God can know this. Wikipedia should not presume to know as much as God. One can only state what they profess to believe. Drogo Underburrow 20:43, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This article is about Christianity the religion not about the beliefs of individual Christians. —Aiden 21:02, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Either way, truck drivers drive trucks, whether individually or as a union, and regardless of what anyone professes. That defines what a truck driver is. Just as obviously, the beliefs of individual Christians are a part of Christianity. That defines, to the world, what Christianity is. How do you know what one believes? By one's words (profess) and actions. If a truck driver professes driving trucks, or a montheist professes monotheism, than what is the problem? Especially since we can't watch all truck drivers…nor all Christians. Arch O. La Grigory Deepdelver 23:13, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

text:  Drogo, your argument is with the source, which says Christianity is monotheistic. Since it does, and since no one has produced a quote from a source that says it is not, WP:V. WP:CITE and WP:NOR support the phrase being in the article. --CTSWyneken 21:07, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

text: My argument is not with the source, but with the way it is being used. While it is perfectly fine for the source to pretend God-like knowledge, Wikipedia is not required to say what this source says verbatim, if it violates other Wikipedia policies, like NPOV. If I found a dictionary published by the KKK that says a racist statement, would that require Wikipedia to state it as fact, since it is "sourced"? Similarly, finding dictionaries that state Christian dogmas as fact, does not give us equal license to repeat them verbatim. If Christianity is a monotheistic religion, then it is simply restating what the dictionary says, in a NPOV form, to say that Christians profess monotheism. Drogo Underburrow 21:41, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Again, this is an article on Christianity as a religion not on individual Christian beliefs. We don't need knowledge of the inner-workings of people's minds to know that by definition, Christianity, the religion, espouses a belief in one God and is thus by definition a monotheistic religion. —Aiden 22:09, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you proposing a distinction between individual Christian beliefs and Christianity? Allowing that, if individual Christians are not a part of Christianity, than what are they? Arch O. La Grigory Deepdelver 23:13, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unsourced/OR Intro Version 

message: Well, I have added the WPCD tag as the article is on the CDs. I guess we need to check the version when the next sweep is done. Hmm. But in the meantime I will continue to enjoy these talk pages. :)  --BozMo talk 12:37, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I never much thought of these arguments as enjoyable, though I do like reference bombing the monotheism thing.....Homestarmy 12:40, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I am sure that some of the participants in the argument are taking it rather less seriously than others. Hence the enjoyment: Eccl 12:10 comes to mind but the translations vary "he choose his words with pleasure, although they were nothing but the truth" is the one I learnt --BozMo talk 19:54, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  WPCD