Talk:Serbia/Archive 2

message: Hello!  Given ongoing discussions and recent edit warring – and with the hope of resolving this issue –  you might be interested in a poll currently underway to decide the rendition of the lead for the Republic of Macedonia article.  Please weigh in! Bitola | talk | 01:04, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Talk:Republic of Macedonia#POLL: Introduction for Republic of Macedonia article|POLL: Introduction for Republic of Macedonia article]] 

message: Kosovo is under UN administration and Serbia has neither legal nor factual control over it. Kosovo should be covered blue in the map (the UN color) not to misslead the public. It shouldn't be light pink like other states around. Blue is the best as it signifies that there is a connection with Serbia, but at the same time it points out that there is UN presence.
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Most of these arguments had had absolutely nothing to do with the article's purpose, which was Serbia and its basic background (historic, geoografic and other data). These political arguments should be resettled to some other article's discussion topic (such as WWI, WWII, Kosovo and Kosovo war, just to name a few).
- this is the official Census that was carried out back in 2002 which shows exact official population figures for the country's inhabited places. The Serbia page is beeing constantly revised (population-wise), when it comes to the country's largest cities. Last time this happened showed that Belgrade had had only 1,1 million people (!!!) which is quite redicilous taking that Belgrade became a city of million back in the 1960's. In 1991 the population top was 1,800,000 however many have moved out since due to economic collapse and wars, so the OFFICIAL population (check!) dropped to 1,576,890. However taking that the country hosts more than 700,000 refugees out of which most live in Belgrade's suburbs and are not registered, number of people is considered to fluctuate between 1,9 and 2,1 million. Please check out the Census 2002 for more info.    NeroN_BG
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For NeroN BG: Please do not delete the talk page content again. I agree that content of this page could be archived, but not deleted. As for population of Belgrade, problem with that is that population figures founded in different sources show population number for different areas: historical Belgrade (excluding Zemun and New Belgrade), present-day urban Belgrade (including Zemun and New Belgrade), and entire administrative area of the Belgrade City District. If you say that during the 1960's Belgrade had million inhabitants you should know about which of these 3 Belgrade areas you speak. PANONIAN (talk) 15:30, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Talk:Kosovo under UN administration

message: Population
– Total (2002)
(not including data for Kosovo and Metohia Province)
– Density
	
7.498.001
126.83/km²
Oficel name of Kosovo is not Kosovo. You must user in English mape. Take a look to the Soc. Rep. Fed. of Yogoslavia. Kosovo is not a Subdivison is a elemt of the state Yogoslavia. The presiden of Yogoslavia it was a Albaner representin kosovo.--172.173.56.105 02:20, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contrvers user 

message: The Kosovo parliament is not in the Serbian parlament see: National Assembly of Serbia--Vete 02:43, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kosovo 

message: Nobody becase they don belong to Serbia--Vete 02:45, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hwo is representin the kosovar in National ... 

message: Wat is that. I can not anderstend is a provinc, teritory or wat ? All the articel is confius. Is this Serbia or Great Serbia o centarl Serbia?  --Hipi Zhdripi 19:23, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is exactly what it says.  The central part of Serbia.  It seems like you have a guilty conscience. However, I hope I have answered your question. --Krytan 03:06, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  For the user of central Serbia 

message: Hier is no word abaut the Vojvodina and Kosovo? A supose that this secsion it mus be unter the articel "Littel Serbia". Hier it must bee Kosovo and Vojvodina if you dont wont that the Kosovo to be representit unter the UN flag.--Hipi Zhdripi 19:30, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How are we supposed to give an intelligent answer when we don't understand you??? Duja 19:37, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Duja, do not waste your time with him. The guy is a bit bitter for getting banned for 3RR reverts and sockpuppetry. He has been dirrupting several other articles and templates already and recently threatened with taking "his war" onto other Serbia articles. Don't feed trolls. Not worth the effort indeed! Asterion 20:57, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Politics

message: This it must be part of the aricel "Litel Serbia"--Hipi Zhdripi 20:17, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sorry; please don't get insulted, but I do not understand your English. :( --HolyRomanEmperor 21:17, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The War after the Kosovo war

message: To PANONIAN:
According to your own proposed link, as well as mine, it shows that Belgrade has a population of 1,576,124, out of which city proper has 1,281,801 (NOT 1,119,642, don't know where u got that from), and the rest of the city has 294,323, rising the figure to 1,576,124. Of course New Belgrade and Zemun are counted as well, because modern Belgrade is, as you know, city that has united with Zemun back in 1931, and with New Belgrade upon its foundation in 1948. In close future, next 20-30 years it is generally expected that city of Pancevo will also join the conurbation. These are all, of course, official numbers, which count both Belgrade's temporary and constant residents. The problem is that tens of thousands of refugees live unregistered and are not subject to official Census, as well as the dwellers who move in the city in thousands looking for work. It is estimated that out of 700,000 refugees that Serbia has recieved during the '90s about one half settled in Belgrade, many of whom have registered but yet many still expect further advancement in their housing status (Kosovo and Croatia refugees). Municipalities such as Kaludjerica, Batajnica and Surcin alone count for 200,000 people, most of them refugees, in houses that are not even legalized nor there are any signs that it will happen in near future...so when you say 1,119,642... most of the people would just laugh. Belgrade region, which surpasses the city limits, counts for 1,717,988 people but it's generally accepted that Belgrade houses near 2 million residents. It is an estimation based on both official Census and the data on refugees and workhopefulls. Official website states that Belgrade officialy has 1,6 mio people but 2 million is a more likely figure. You know it yourself that in countries such as ours numbers cannot reflect the situation precisely, except maybe in Vojvodina, which was less hit by refugee-wave and depopulation than the rest of Serbia. User:NeroN_BG
* http://webrzs.statserb.sr.gov.yu/axd/Zip/NEP1.pdf
* http://www.beograd.org.yu/cms/view.php?id=220
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The number of 1,281,801 is not a population of urban Belgrade. It is a population of all urban settlements in Belgrade City District counted together, including Belgrade, Surčin, Lazarevac, Mladenovac, etc. (All settlements marked with letter "G", meaning "grad" or "gradsko naselje"). The population of Belgrade is only a population of these parts of the document where is written "Beograd-deo". So, if you calculate all numbers from "Beograd-deo" lines you will have a population of 1,119,642. Also, refugees were subject of official census (I know that because I worked for statistics in the time of census). PANONIAN (talk) 16:40, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Population

message: : A
# Law of Yougoslawia / RS Serbia = Serbia + SAP Kosovo + SAP Vojvodian; under the RS of Serbia flag; (1992)
# Law of UN // Serbia (Serbia + SAP Vojvodiana)under serbian flag - Kosovo UN flag (up 1999)
# Law of Milosevic Serbia // Serbia with subdivision under serbian flag - (1992-1999)// i dosen exist Provinc of Kosovo or samthing like this
# Serbian Goverment Propaganda// Serbia + Provice Vojvodina + Province Kosovo i Metohija; Serbian flag (up 2000)//: Hier is Kosovo subdivision that is not acceptit from UN
: A1
# SAP of Kosovo ist paralel a part of SFR of Yogoslavia and the pat of SR of Serbia.
# Kosovo is a Provinc in Balkan.
# Kosovo is a hard of Serbia and is not a Provice see: Serbiens districts (Kosovo is subdivision)
# Kosovo is administretit fro UN and is a Serbians Provinc
In wikipedia in this time (2006) is.
:B for Serbia
# Law of UN/ Serbia (Serbia + SAP Vojvodiana) under serbian flag - Kosovo UN flag (up 1999)
:B for Kosovo
# Serbian Goverment Propaganda/ Serbia + Provice Vojvodina + Province Kosovo i Metohija; Serbian flag (up 2000)
Not it!!! Is not the same, RS of Serbia = Rep. Serbia. No body dont in UN dont accept this. The Serbian Govermet is saying that Kosovo is part of Rep. of Serbia but the Kosovars have maked referendum wich is legetim. Argument 
see: http://www.srbija.sr.gov.yu/?change_lang=en  A PLAN FOR THE POLITICAL SOLUTION TO THE SITUATION IN KOSOVO AND METOHIJA--Hipi Zhdripi 02:37, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You can make wat you want but his is not gut for neutrality in Wikipedia becose in one seid we presant the Serbia withat Kosovo and the ather sied Kosovo under the Serbia. This is Confuse. Is beter to present in one Law even that from Milosevic is better that in Wikipedia, is more clear.--Hipi Zhdripi 03:34, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Correctly use of names and definitions 

message: Only for Propaganda about Kosovo since he Wikipedia is was Open you presentin Serbia als a region. You  present the Montenegro nation als Serb Nation. The Montenegro Language als Serbian language. You are destroing youu country only to make troubel in Balkan. The Kosovars is goin to drop the Serb-Russian from Serbia. The best argumet I have findit is this:
  
NO COMMENT Till 13 April 2006 it was Serbia dreamening and now they want to administred Kosovo in Wikipedia.
I was the user who created this map and converted the info box into a country box  and not a specially designed region box. I am an American with German and Scottish ancestry and am in no way a Serbian nationalist or Albanian-hater. I was simply redesigning the pages of the two autonomous republics of Serbia and Montenegro, both of which will probably be seperate countries within the next two months. While my opinion on the question of Kosovo is just that, my private opinion, it is doubtful that Kosovo will become an independent country anytime soon, if ever. Were it to look like Kosovo were to become indepedent relatively soon, I would most likely design a map and country box for it. Until then, Kosovo should be shown as a part of Serbia, even with its levels of autonomy. Somalia doesn't even have a government to control the entire country, and it is still shown as a united country on its map. -Helmandsare 18 April 2006, 17:10 UTC
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You should wait a little with posting these maps into Serbia and Montenegro articles because it is not quite clear what will be the results of Montenegrin referendum. By the established rules of this referendum there should be at least 55% of voters that support independence if that referendum is to be recognized as valid. It is not certain whether that percent of voters will vote for independence (If 54% of voters vote for independence instead of 55% the referendum will not be valid). So, just wait that things happen first, and then change the maps. PANONIAN (talk) 23:01, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Popaganda 

message: Sombody have putit Kosovo here with out argumet. We dont have a argumet that Kosovo is part of S/M. We have tha Constitution of this countrie but we have the rez. 1244 wich is more importen for the Wikipedia and is saying that Kosovo it is a part of Yougoslavia and is prototoriat of UN. Till we dont have a clearly argument from UN, Kosovo must be out of this articel. Pleas dont make the discution with intepretation or the Law wich are not accordin to 1244. Everybodoy can do that but that is nothing for Wikipedia. --Hipi Zhdripi 03:44, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ? --HolyRomanEmperor 20:14, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  No argumet 

message: This is document to make a better articel
 *B92-Serbian Radio Station in English
 10:06 April 18 2006| Beta
BUJANOVAC -- Riza Haljimi said that Albanians should be included in the drafting of a new Serbian constitution.
“The national minority in Serbia should have certain rights, by principles proposed by the international community, because this is what is being asked to be done for Serbs in Kosovo.” the leader of the Democratic Action Party said ...
He added that decentralisation is one of the best methods for integrating the minority.
“If this happens, there will be no talks of changing borders and of having South Serbia belong to Kosovo.” Haljimi said.
He also criticised the Serbian Government for not speaking enough about the problems faced by the people living in the Presevo Valley.
09:49 April 14 2006| Beta
BELGRADE -- Rasim Ljajic met with Prime Minister Vojislav Kostunica yesterday to discuss his recent resignation.
Earlier this week, Ljajic, who is the president of the National Council for Hague Cooperation and Serbia-Montenegro Human and Minority Rights Minister, resigned from his position as president of the South Serbia Coordination Centre. The decision was made after the Serbian Government decided to intervene in Novi Pazar and disband the municipal government... 
Sorry but in this Serbian democratic radio ar talkin about two cuntries. Now I don understandent is Kosovo a part of Serbia?
:Ehm, could you sum up what you're trying to say, please? --HolyRomanEmperor 19:58, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Albanians want inclusion in constitution 

message: I added the proper copyright information to the Coat of Arms. The arms were rendered by our society, we since short have a website (see image information). Our society did most of the designs (if a city did not have an arms since medieval times) and did all of the rendering of these images. The images can be used freely provided that no one makes any changes to them. We do however wish that we are being recognised for our work and ask people to see & verify that all images of the cities in Serbia get a link back to use with a notice that the design has been done by us.
Our site: Serbian Heraldic Society White Eagle/Beli Orao
Gallery of arms: Gallery of Coat of Arms
We will in the near future expand our gallery and provide background information of the different designs. The information may be used on Wikipedia be it provided that we are being credited.
Thank you.
SGS 13:06, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added copyright information to the Arms of the city

message: Can this article be unlocked even for day or two? I would like to make some changes in gallery. --Pockey 17:22, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unlocking? 

message: This is rediculous. This article has been unlocked for 10 hours, and an annonymous user has already vandalized it. Хајдук Еру  ( Talk || Contributions) 05:07, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Unlocking and subsequent vandalism

message: First of all Serbia waged war over croatia and not letting Croatia have back their land for about 86 years. Serbs have taken Croatian riches, stole their land and killed inocent croatian people during the 1990's war. Made Croatia look like terriosit, Facists even though serbia had there own facists regime. If it wasn't for King Tomislav of croatia serbia would have been conqured by the bulgarian empire if Croatia didn't Fight and win for Serbia. --Marbus2 5 16:10, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You want to say that Croats had their land 86 years ago or they were just Austro-Hungarian COLONY??! Serbs liberated Croats from foreign rule, even you cannot deny that. If Serbs did not liberated Croatia in 1918, it would not be independent now, and you now would be a proud citizen of Austria-Hungary (a dungeon of nations). LOL. :))) PANONIAN (talk) 16:32, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Serbs liberated this countries? Way it was War there?--Hevnonen 18:42, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  == '''Serbs have done nothing for Croatia but sucked the life out of it for there greedy needs''' == 

message: And should be deleted. --Hurricane Angel 01:44, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I fully agree, we should archive this talk page and start a new one Хајдук Еру  (Talk || Contributions) 04:15, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree. --serbiana - talk 18:34, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  This entire discussion has turned into a juvenile forum 

message: Please till we don t know wat is going to be with Kosovo, let the mape in this section. If Kosovo is going to be "de facto" and "de juro" part of SM then we are going to chance that.--Hevnonen 18:27, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Administrative subdivisions 

message: OK, I've had enough of reverting this page after vandalism acts of clearly separatist ideology followers. According to the CIA factbook, Kosovo, even though administered by the UN, is a part of Serbia, and there is a map that also shows that. "Administrative divisions: 2 nominally autonomous provinces (both in the republic of Serbia); Kosovo (temporarily under UN administration, per UN Security Council Resolution 1244) and Vojvodina." End of discussion. --serbiana - talk 19:30, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Your wrong it may show in map form but Kosovo has its own government within serbia. So even though it might show its in serbia the region of Kosovo is never going back to serbia after the UN leave. After the UN leave there be more support for a complete independance in Kosovo.
Not to mention the country of Montenargo will get their independance soon and if Serbia refuse it will be war again. Serbia can't afford another war. Its bad enough there consisered as the poorest country in Eroupe, so if the serbs want war it will be a big blow to the Serbian econemy. Not to mention the already aid that has been cut off to Serbia by the EU and the USA for not giving war criminal Radco Mladic. --Marbus2 5 12:35, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So what if Kosovo have its own government within Serbia? Vojvodina too have its own government. The question here is not what will be the future status of Kosovo, but what is its current status. PANONIAN (talk) 15:57, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: CIA

message: This article is about Serbia  and not for Yugoslavia, Kosovo is not a part of Serbia--Hevnonen 13:50, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article is about Serbia  

message: Can someone change the map to indicate that Montenegro and Serbia are no longer a political entity? Politis 15:53, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They still are until official separation is proclaimed. PANONIAN (talk) 16:42, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

text: OK, I was basing myself on the fact that yesterday the Serbian Ambassador stated that Belgrade would respect the referendum and the two entities had different currencies (Euro and Dinar) and separate economies. Basically, that, in effect, they were separate for a number of years. But with the ex-Yugoslav referenda, in 1991, I think the 'yes' vote to independence took effect immediately. Politis 16:52, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it did not. The separation need some time. Officially, Serbia and Montenegro still exist. PANONIAN (talk) 17:00, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Map

message: Is Voivodina going to break away from Serbia. My thinkin is that it has a Hungarian majority that would prefer to join the EU through Hungary. How did a country that was considered a heroic WWII ally, end up with no one wanting to have anything to do with it. Even the Serbs are trying to get out. Politis 15:57, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Your thinking is that Vojvodina has a Hungarian majority? I would suggest that you read Vojvodina article (especially demographics section) before you say something like this. Also read Politics of Vojvodina article, where you can see that there are no political parties in Vojvodina that advocate independence and there is no support for that idea among majority of population in the province. PANONIAN (talk) 16:40, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Thanks for the information. I thought, according to maps, that the Hungarians were the majority in the north of Voivodina. No problem. Politis 16:47, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They are majority in several northern municipalities, but in the entire Vojvodina they represent 14% of population. If referendum about status of one territory is implemented, then 100% of its population have right to vote, not only 14%. :) PANONIAN (talk) 16:53, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Voivodina referendum?

message: Since Serbia and Montenegro will soon be dissolved, does this mean that Serbia now becomes an entirely new state, and not simply a successor to the union?
:I'm not sure. In the cases of Slovenia, Croatia and BH they left Yugoslavia. In this case one party choses to dissolve a union between two states. So, it could be seen as different. However, I know that Serbia will inherit the place in the UN while CG will have to apply for a new place. The same applies to negotiations and accords reached with the EU and other international organizations. So, I guess Serbia will be the successor state and CG will be a 'new' state.Osli73 08:03, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That was also the case with Soviet Union and Russia. I think it could be the case here too. PANONIAN (talk) 11:49, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Successor state?

message: In World War I, Serbia had 1,264,000 casualties — 28% of its population, which also represented 58% of its male population.
I would like to see some citation regarding these numbers. All what I found was that Serbia had 45.000 military casualities. Total human loss in WW I was around 9 million.--193.81.246.92 09:31, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You can put a  tag on it.  I'll go do it for you.  Since there were other warnings for vandalism on your page, and blanking is standard vandal behavior, I assumed your edit was vandalism, sorry! --MPerel ( talk | contrib) 09:38, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Though on second look, why did you blank out the whole history section?  It looks like it is indeed vandalism. --MPerel ( talk | contrib) 09:40, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I did not. I unintentionally added sentence on a top not to the discussion but to the History itself, so I deleted it there and put it here. Not vandalist intention.--193.81.246.92 09:46, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, the blanking was apparently inadvertent then. --MPerel ( talk | contrib) 09:48, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  History, Serbia in World War I 

message: Where's the national motto in the article? Paulus Caesar 01:01, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, not every country has a motto. Duja 15:38, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  National motto 

message: Got it filled out and raring to go at User:Estavisti/Serbia, for as soon as we become independent. Any day now...--estavisti 03:31, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I looked at the other one, but I think yours is more aesthetically appealing. Хајдук Еру  (Talk || Contributions) 05:09, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Infobox