Talk:Saint Timothy

message: "Timothy, in Greek, means to fear or to honor God", perhaps this sentence found at the bottom of the article should be rewritten to the main paragraph, i.e. Timothy (Greek for fear or honoring God).
:"He is venerated as a saint by Christians honoring that rite." What rite is that? Something has obviously been removed here. DJ Clayworth 18:16, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Name

message: There should be some clarification here:  1. Who considers Timothy to be a saint?  Most Protestant denominations don't accept the practice of considering certain people as being "saints", preferring to apply that title to all believers.  So it would be nice if it was clarified which denominations/sects consider him to be a saint.   2. Is he the patron saint of something?  If he is, it'd be useful to add to the article.  
An example of what I'm looking for is quoted below from the Paul of Tarsus article.
*"Paul is venerated as a Saint by various groups, including the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Anglican traditions, and by some Lutherans. He is the patron saint of Malta and the City of London, and has also had several cities named in his honor (including São Paulo, Brazil, and Saint Paul, Minnesota). He is venerated as a prophet by Mormons."
--Tim4christ17 09:46, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Saint?

message: Am I the only one to notice that there are zero sources for this article?  If some are not added, I will speedily delete it very soon.  Thanks.  Gatorgalen (talk) 21:43, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources

message: This isn't much to show for such a major figure in Christianity. This article needs work. -- Secisek (talk) 16:38, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Start class

message: Please stop adding "Saint" to article names-- as you do here-- per this policy.  03:36, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please '''stop''' adding "Saint" to article names 

message: Some people have not good faith, and they keep deleting the source of Philippians 2:19-20 which shows how much Paul trusted Timothy .
" Ἐλπίζω δὲ ἐν Κυρίῳ Ἰησοῦ Τιμόθεον ταχέως πέμψαι ὑμῖν, ἵνα κἀγὼ εὐψυχῶ, γνοὺς τὰ περὶ ὑμῶν. 20 οὐδένα γὰρ ἔχω ἰσόψυχον, ὅστις γνησίως τὰ περὶ ὑμῶν μεριμνήσει. Philippians 2:19-20"
https://bibliaparalela.com/greek/2473.htm 2473 isópsyxos (an adjective, derived from 2470 /ísos, "equivalent, equal" and 5590/psyxē, "soul") – properly, of equal-soul; having similar identity (values) because like-minded, i.e. equally (similarly) motivated.  ἰσόψυχος, ἰσόψυχον (ἴσος and ψυχή), equal in soul (A. V. like-minded) (Vulg. unanimus): Philippians 2:20. (Psalm 54:14 (); Aeschylus Ag. 1470.) Dervenagas (talk) 14:33, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Their bad faith can easily be proven because they dare to say that "That text in Greek says nothing.". For God's sake,everybody knows that the prototype of the Bible is written in greek!!!!! Dervenagas (talk) 14:38, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Please remember to assume good faith and refrain from accusing other editors of acting in bad faith – "Assuming good faith (AGF) is a fundamental principle on Wikipedia." – see WP:AGF, WP:5P4 and WP:CIVIL – accusing others of acting in bad faith is covered in WP:AOBF & WP:NPA – thanks, Epinoia (talk) 14:55, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: If this is your own translation it counts as WP:OR – check accepted translations of Philippians 2:19-20:  This is the International Standard Version, but many similar translations can be found at BibleGateway – cheers, Epinoia (talk) 16:10, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: The Bible is not acceptable as a source for analysis. See WP:RSP. Please use reliable secondary sources from credentialed scholars. Elizium23 (talk) 16:47, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

text: Whoever understands the meaning of soul in Christianity, also understands how severe is to claim that someone else has equal soul to you. Dervenagas (talk) 18:59, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: , your Bible verses are unacceptable as sources. Elizium23 (talk) 19:25, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  We are investigating the trust Paul had to Timothy. What other sources can we accept in order to judge this trust, other than the original text of the Bible? Dervenagas (talk) 19:34, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bad Faith edits and reverts regarding a source that proves how much Paul trusted Timothy 

message: An editor has repeatedly changed the page to their preferred version (WP:EDITWAR). The reasons these edits are reverted are:
#The Encyclopaedia Britannica says that Timothy was born in Lystra. Both WP:AGE MATTERS and WP:CONFLICTING indicate that newer sources are preferred over older sources. The Britannica article is dated 1 January 2021, and so is our most up to date reliable source.
#The editor claims that “Paul entrusted Timothy with important assignments” and cites as a source a Greek text of Philippians 2:19-20. Philippians 2:19-20 says, “19 I hope in the Lord Jesus to send Timothy to you soon, that I also may be cheered when I receive news about you. 20 I have no one else like him, who will show genuine concern for your welfare.” (Bible Gateway New International Version). The passage mentions only one assignment, not plural assignments, and we don't know if Paul actually sent Timothy. The passage does not state that Paul entrusted Timothy with important assignments – this is an interpretation of a primary source and WP:PRIMARY says, “Any interpretation of primary source material requires a reliable secondary source for that interpretation.” The cited primary source is in Greek and WP:NOENG says, “English-language sources are preferred over non-English ones when available.” There are many English bible translations available.
Therefore, these edits cannot stand. – Epinoia (talk) 01:04, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Repeated edits 

message: This is a major name change. It ought to have been discussed. Laurel Lodged (talk) 10:37, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Unless I hear a good reason to the contrary, I will revert this change tomorrow. Laurel Lodged (talk) 16:50, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: - see MOS:SAINTS, "Saints go by their most common English name, minus the word "Saint"" – also see WP:RNPOV, as Timothy is not regarded as a saint by everyone, removing the honorific "Saint" is consistent with a neutral point of view - moving the article to Timothy of Ephesus is consistent with naming conventions of Wikipedia articles of other Christian saints, such as Matthew the Apostle, Paul the Apostle, John the Evangelist, etc. - please do not revert without a good reason supported by Wikipedia guidelines - thanks - Epinoia (talk) 17:41, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: The main MOS:SAINTS rule doesn't apply as there is a disambiguation page for the name "Timothy". It says that "Saint" may be used if it is generally accepted that he is a saint. When mainline Christian denomination does not accept Timothy as a saint? Laurel Lodged (talk) 13:08, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Timothy is a saint only for Christians, not for Buddhists or other non-Christian denominations - so we have to follow WP:NPOV and not use a term applied by only one group - neutral point of view is "a fundamental principle of Wikipedia" and is "is non-negotiable, and...cannot be superseded by other policies or guidelines, nor by editor consensus." - most of the Christian saint articles have been moved to neutral titles, Jerome, Francis of Assisi, Teresa of Ávila, John of the Cross, Æthelberht of Kent, etc. - there are still some articles with saint in the title, such as Saint Peter and Saint Dominic, but these are old articles that have not yet been changed - I am sure they will be moved to conform to neutral point of view when someone gets around to it - cheers - Epinoia (talk) 14:26, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: So an article can only be called "Saint Foo" if Foo is revered as a saint by Christians and by Buddhists and by other non-Christian denominations. Is that your point? Laurel Lodged (talk) 16:32, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  - I didn't make the change, I am just pointing out that the move is in accordance with Wikipedia policies and guidelines and follows the neutral naming conventions of other Christian saint articles - Epinoia (talk) 17:01, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

text: I have reverted the move. Considering there have been two unsuccessful move requests in the past, WP:RM should have been employed. StAnselm (talk) 22:39, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  - this move imposes a Christian point of view and completely overrides WP:NPOV - neutral point of view is "a fundamental principle of Wikipedia" and is "is non-negotiable, and...cannot be superseded by other policies or guidelines, nor by editor consensus." - Epinoia (talk) 23:48, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name change to "Timothy of Ephesus" not discussed. 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page to the proposed title at this time, per the discussion below.  Dekimasuよ! 11:22, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Saint Timothy →  – Per the clergy guideline WP:NCWC that discourages the use of 'Saint' unless it is necessary and the only viable option for disambiguation. ~ Iskandar323 (talk) 19:19, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

text: Note: WikiProject Christianity has been notified of this discussion.  ASUKITE 19:32, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

text: Note: WikiProject Catholicism has been notified of this discussion.  ASUKITE 19:32, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 13 April 2022 

message: The paragraph on the letters Timothy received from Paul states that many scholars think it was not written by Paul without having any references. The paragraph should at least point to First Epistle to Timothy’s article or remove it completely as it doesn’t really belong here 47.229.91.79 (talk) 15:13, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: - the article section "Pastoral Epistles" says that the Timothy letters "are considered pseudepigraphic by many modern scholars, including Bart Ehrman, Raymond Collins, and David E. Aune." with 3 citations. There is no citation in the lead because citations are not required in the lead if citations are provided in the body of the article per MOS:LEADCITE - Epinoia (talk) 15:22, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Authorship of 1 and 2 Timothy