Talk:Italian school of swordsmanship

message: Class handouts are very poor reference material because the public does not have access to them.  In addition, class handouts seldom exist for very long and are much more likely to have typos and mis-stated information.  The person who added the reference to the class handout by Tomasso Leoni and Steven Reich should make an effort to find an online article by them with the same information.  If such an article does not exist then a request should be made to Tommaso Leoni and Steven Reich to have the handout put online.Ranp 21:23, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: it's not a big deal; Rubboli and Cesari insist on "primissimi anni del 1500"  but are willing to go as far as 1525. I'll happily extend that to "first half of the 16th century" and be done, in spite of a class handout of course not really satisfying WP:V. dab (𒁳) 22:03, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The handout is available online at their site . I don't see what exactly makes the claim of Rubboli and Cesari any stronger than Leoni and Reich who say the middle 1500s. Marozzo 12:35, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have found it, and inserted it into the article, thanks. Well, Rubboli and Cesari are the editors of the manuscript, and they are emphatic about their date (hell, they have it in their title, "dell'inizio del XVI secolo"), while Leoni has a non-committal "(I would date it around 1550)". He doesn't make clear he is aware of the Rubboli-Cesari claim and is contradicting it, he appears to be merely giving his rough impression from glancing at the manuscript. I don't think this is a genuine dispute, and we shouldn't turn it into one on-wiki. Knowing that a lot of publications in this field are online, I won't insist on printed sources, but if you want to pursue it, I do think you should bring up some discussion (swordforum or similar) that actually contests the "primissimi anni" claim. I don't have the edition in front of me, but I think the argument involves evidence that the MS predates Manciolino and/or Marozzo. dab (𒁳) 12:56, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Having talked to Mr. Leoni, I can say that he does contradict them; he says they've dated the manuscript too early. Based on the Italian and the style presented as compared to the other Bolognese manuals, it fits more with a mid-1500s date. While I'm sure Rubboli and Cesari have their reasons for the date they give, I haven't seen anything compelling enough to give their opinion more weight than that of the Order of the Seven Hearts (and vice versa). Therefore, I think the reference to both is valid. Marozzo 13:13, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: that's great. "first half of 16th century" it is, then, I didn't remove your Leoni reference (I actually added it), and think it is perfectly valid as an alternative opinion. Also, could you sign your post? it's a Wikipedia thing. The difference in weight is due to one opinion being published in print, while the other is entirely based on hearsay (your account of your chat with Mr. Leoni). I have no doubt what you say is true, but there is still WP:V. Mr. Leoni is perfectly free to publish his opinion, and once he does, we can refer to it. dab (𒁳) 13:16, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Reference for M-345/M-346 Manuscripts

message: I removed the link farm just as I did on the German School of Swordsmanship article.  The links really took a lot away from the article.  All organizations and groups were treated fairly.Ranp (talk) 21:41, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Link Farm

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thread_title:  External links modified