Talk:Mudkip/Archive02

message: Ac1983fan, stop crying about it, just accept ot and just add the saying. it's popular online and as such should be added. Just because YOU don't want it added doesn't mean it shouldn't/ 209.107.101.5 18:18, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree.  The fact that so many people have came here to just understand the meme suggests that even if some don't like it, it's still a good contribution.  You can not use WP:NOTE against this.  And I quote, "These guidelines do not specifically regulate the content of articles...".  You are correct in saying that there can't be an article titled "so i herd u liek mudkips" (per WP:NOTE), however the meme CAN be mentioned in this existing article.  Smileman66 04:34, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

text: You do realize being rude about this won't get these people to change their minds. That being said, oh, come on! This refusal to add something about an Internet meme simply because it isn't part of the game is mind-boggling.Sana Jisushi 06:14, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Could someone just explain the origin of the meme on this talk page? It'd make sense; if you can't read about the Meme in the article, then you could come here. I think pokemon is a bunch of craptastic commercialist advertising, personally, and that the franchise will soon die, but I love the meme and Encylopedia Dramatica seems to have died. --80.47.17.221 17:26, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't like replying to dead posts, but the origins are discussed below. -Jéské (v^_^v) 22:24, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: liek Mudkips

message: What do you mean it is not notable enough? It's an everyday saying on 4chan and it has spread to all the chan pages. I've had people ask me what it means. And rather than have to goto a seedy site like urbandictionary, they should be ble to use wikipedia to site this reference. Other reference to internetrelated humor are on wikipedia. Why shouldn't this be on the appropriate page?—167.1.163.100 17:11, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Frankly, the only reason I searched for "Mudkip" was because of "So I herd you liek mudkips"...still not sure what's that about.  Apparently, it's something inappropriate.  Jumping cheese Cont@ct 10:56, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, not really. It's just a very popular Internet meme. --AlexJohnc3 (talk) 00:55, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I completely agree. Some people on Wikipedia are strongly against anything involving 4chan, Encyclopedia Dramatica, or anything else pertaining to Internet culture. They're a minority on Wikipedia, but at least two or three of them are actually administrators here and have managed to rally some people to support them who actively seek to keep any references to Internets memes they see as involving places like Encyclopedia Dramatica on Wikipedia, as is shown by people trying to keep any reference to the "so i herd u liek mudkips" meme on this page, when it is probably the main reason people visit the page on Mudkip on Wikipedia in the first place. --AlexJohnc3 (talk) 21:43, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: How can you agree with an anon?  My 9-month old eskimo/pomeranian puppy's opinion is more valid.  In fact, most of the edits on the talk page are by anons.  This CRAP doesn't talk about Mudkip as a Pokemon at all.  And can somebody please give a link to somewhere that has this information and is a reputable source?  Without one, that whole section would violate Wikipedia:Reliable sources, as none of that information is sourced or can be linked back to a site and should be permanently REMOVED!!!.  --05:30, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, Ksy. Firstly, anon opinions are not less valuable than a puppy's; don't bite the newbies. Secondly, I'd like to say that, as someone who has experienced this fad personally, the fad did happen; as such, I can vouch for the truth of the content in question (well, except maybe for some specifics, but I don't know); having said that, I doubt there is a reliable secondary source we can cite for this (As it stands, we only have primary sources to cite - Forum search of "so i herd you leik mudkips", 30 results Forum search of "so i herd you liek mudkips" (liek, instead of leik), about 300 results - This is just the results from NSider, though.), and as such it would not qualify for inclusion in Wikipedia, as per Wikipedia:Verifiability and Wikipedia:Attribution. – mcy1008 (talk) 14:30, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, that's fine with me. Also, I'd like to note that you can get many more results, including many of the variations on "so i herd you liek mudkips" by searching for "so i herd" in Google, for example, instead of the entire phrase: http://www.google.com/search?&q=%22so+i+herd%22 . 23,600 results. --Alexc3 (talk) 14:58, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So what does that mean as far as it's inclusion in the article; are we gonna leave it in or take it out?  I didn't think it passed WP:VERIFY. --15:02, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Right now I think we should leave it out. --Alexc3 (talk) 17:21, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Alternatively, since a large number, if not the majority, of people coming to this page want to know about the Internet meme, we could instead put  in that section. --Alexc3 (talk) 17:26, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I think that's a very good idea. --Alexc3 (talk) 19:12, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Liek Mudkips

message: mudkipz rock. We should integrate the internet meme into this page. The reasons are as follows : 1) who decides what's significant enough to be mentioned or not? OTHER internet memes are mentioned on wikipedia, like lemon party and goatse. It's UNFAIR and INCONSISTENT that mudkipz should be left out. 2) there was some guy down there slating anonymous posters. i think this smacks of snobbery by wiki-addicts. Much love, anonymous poster. (82.27.209.38 05:43, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the user was kidding. --Alexc3 (talk) 20:16, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think "Ksy92003" has a problem with "humor." --70.18.4.93 15:34, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I haven't got a problem.  That's my standard response whenever I know that somebody is saying something sarcastically.  Either way, for it to be included there needs to be some source saying that it is majorly important and proves that it is an "integral part of this article."  --Ksy92003 18:12, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This Wikipedian is 16 years, 9 months, and 14 days old --71.225.47.191 18:57, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No need to bring my age into the situation here.  How old I am has absolutely nothing to do with this "internet meme."  Keep that factor out of this please.  --Ksy92003 00:09, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Your immaturity has everything to do with your ability (or lack thereof) to wield editorial control in situations such as these. --70.119.128.166 08:42, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

text: One can be under eighteen and still mature.  She's been one of the ones who's shown any restraint in this situation.  The anon army, however, has not.  Cease the trolling or I go back to WP:RFPP. -Jeske (v^_^v) 19:05, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  I LIEK MUDKIPZ 

message: removed  tag --GranisDarkhammer 04:01, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: man what the hell why cant I request an edit <:( --GranisDarkhammer 16:21, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Because we have no idea what the heck you want changed. – mcy1008 (talk) 19:10, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  hey 

message: Should the "so i herd u liek mudkips" internet meme be mentioned here? It's a rather large internet phenomenon - not a paragraph, just a quick mention in Trivia or something. 74.119.23.212 22:07, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Many people think it should be. In fact, it's probably the reason most people even come to this page. --Alexc3 (talk) 02:22, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I certainly came here to read about the meme. Encyclopedia Dramatica is fine for a laugh, but it's not a place to go to when you want facts, which is why I came here rather than going to ED. -- 70.18.4.93 15:38, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

text: A simple mention in the trivia page is more than welcome. I can't imagine the harm in a simple sentance stating it as a 4chan meme.--Piemanmoo 17:01, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Alright, seriously.  How is this so-called  "so i herd u liek mudkips" quote notable enough to be included in the article?  If I said something like "so i herd u liek cubones" somewhere online, would it be notable to be included on Cubone?  I think not.  And just because somebody came to the page just to read about something they found online, that doesn't mean that it should be here.  I just can't understand why anybody would think that it should be in the article.  It doesn't contribute any worthwhile information to the article.  It doesn't talk about Mudkip at all.  How does it contribue to the article?  Here's the answer: IT DOESN'T !!!.  The article is about "Mudkip", not some "internet phenomenon."  --Ksy92003 18:08, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: With all due respect, ksy, a lot of what wikipedia is useful for, for a good number of people, is finding connections between different subjects. If internet memes are notable in and of themselves, then surely "i herd u liek mudkips" deserves at the very least a link on the "related links" section. If you'd like to see an instance where internet memes have been introduced into Wikipedia, I suggest you see Slashdot's section on "Culture". Every meme has its own independent page- just because a meme originated on 4chan (has now spread to all corners of popular internet culture) doesn't mean it's not notable. It's like you're erasing 4chan from the history of the internet while slashdot remains privileged. News flash, Slashdot's not all that special. Slashdot spawned the GNAA, which is a more efficient band of trolls than 4chan could ever hope to be. -66.100.35.58 21:31, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

text: GNAA couldn't troll a tolkien novel, let alone the internet. ≈ Maurauth (09F9) 21:33, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

text: It should be mentioned in some way, I mean, look at how much vandalism there has been saying 'i herd yuo liek mudkeipz' it surely is notable. ≈ Maurauth (talktome)(wha?) 11:46, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The difference between Slashdot's memes and here is that for Slashdot's memes, there are sources to backup the information, which is notable.  The information there is the origin, why it's used, and where it appears in other media.  The Mudkip meme doesn't have that same notability at all.  It's just something that appeared on the internet one day.  There isn't anything anywhere that says what it means, where it came from, or any sources to say that it appears in any other media.  With Dio Brando's "cry", it is on that page because it is notable.  It actually appears in the medium that the character is in, that is to say manga / anime.  Since that "cry" appears in those media, and because that "cry" is a part of the character, that is why it has it's own section.  Do Mudkip go around asking "do u liek mudkips?"  I don't think so.  Does Mudkip go around saying "so i herd u liek them?"  I don't think so.  Since the meme isn't used by Mudkip or in any of the media that it appears in (anime, television series), nor is it a physical, biological characteristic of Mudkip, I don't believe it should be mentioned on the page.  --Ksy92003 12:53, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

text: See the bottom of this page "Internet Meme" for my response. ≈ Maurauth (nemesis) 08:27, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: So i herd sum things.

message: ... Are done by the community. Why are you working in the opposite direction of the community by removing it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.224.208.5 (talk) 11:21, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Here, here! Wikipedia needs to change its policies.
WIkipedia is an Encyclopedia. Just because people want something included doesn't mean it should be. Zazaban 16:54, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

text: But it's been proven time and time again that it's notable enough to warrant a brief mention. It just keeps getting removed.--209.243.31.233 06:03, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Well yes, but a Mudkip itself isn't something you would look for in an encyclopedia either. Smileman66 22:18, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  These edits... 

message: So, what was the actual origin of the meme? We might as well put it here; there's no rule against putting information on the talk page. It's the only reason I came to the article. --80.47.17.229 13:49, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This small section of the talk page cleared things out for me. Aye, Wikipedia should loosen up its guidelines a tad bit. I'm forced to goto ED for information dang it. --Koheiman 06:42, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. This is rediculous. I just don't get why they are so anal about it. 84.48.95.242 08:52, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: MUDKIPPZZZZZZ

message: Before the discussion was deleted by a spammer, there was a conversation going on about how adding a short quip about the internet phenomenon wouldn't hiurt anything.
My argument for adding is this: The second result on Google for "Mudkips" is the now defunct ED page on the internet meme. Obviously, it's something worth mentioning.
Second of all, O RLY? has a page. There is no real verifiable way to say where it came from, who orginated it, etc., but it has a page anyway. How can someone say it's ok to have an O RLY? page, but not a tiny piece of trivia on the Mudkip's internet status? The only people that really object to it just seem to hate the fad in general. 65.6.213.12 22:31, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Restored. – mcy1008 (talk) 22:56, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Header 

message: There should be no problem mentioning the meme, but listing it as a legendary pokemon is false.
I agree. It is in a league of its own, and needs to be listed as the most legendary pokemon of all time.
:NO Poke aside from Arceus deserves anything remotely resembling deification, and nor does Chuck Norris. -Jeske (v^_^v) 13:16, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why is this listed under legendary pokemon? 

message: Is there a procedure for deciding if the whole "I herd u liek..." thing gets a mention? I know straw polls are a Bad Thing cause they're too easy to mess with, but then how do we decide? Right now everyone is posting here, most of the posts seem in favour of putting it in a trivia section at the bottom, but nothing gets done. I'll wait a day or two for suggestions, but otherwise will just be bold and add it myself :-) Moyabrit 11:23, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is - if the meme has been referenced in popular culture or has external press from a neutral source (such as the New York Times), then it can be added, but not before. -Jeske (v^_^v) 00:35, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Is the Tom Green show considered popular culture?  If so, I can show you guys a youtube video.   Sandwiches99 04:05, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yes or no 

message: Lets make a list so Ksy92003 will stop deleting the meme (which won't work anyway because anonymous is legion)
http://www.google.com/search?q=mudkips
1st result is this page
next 7 results are about the meme "so i herd u liek mudkips"
1 nonsense amazon page
1 pokemon episode guide
:It doesn't matter - it still has not gotten any press from an outside source that has editorial oversight and is neutral.  Stop it.  Same goes for those of you pestering Bidoof.  By the by, we *do* have a blocking policy. -Jeske (v^_^v) 13:13, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Meme Sources 

message: I think someone should add "so i think u liek mudkips" to the article. i think its funny.
:Have you been paying any attention to this talk page?  Just because it's funny doesn't mean we can add it. -Jeske (v^_^v) 05:19, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Idea 

message: One - too unstable. Two - has a cleanup/expand tag. Three - images are somewhat messed up in their alignment and positioning. - A Link to the Past (talk) 19:49, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA removal 

message: I got thousands of results for terms such as "so i herd", and "mudkipz", among other variations of the phrase that has become a rather popular internet meme.  Why no mention? It meets the notability requirements, without a doubt.
-- Mik 22:34, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: See WP:GHITS. Just because you got thousands of results doesn't necessarily mean anything w/o a reliable source.-Jeske (v^_^v) 22:43, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  So, I did some Google searches today. 

message: Hi, I'm wondering something, in the gamespot forum site, there are people with pictures of mudkips in it, and investagating, I checked other forums and they've all got the same mudkips in it. Avatars, signatures etc.
Whenever I try to find out what its all about, people just tell me that they heard I like them. Can I get a straight answer please?--70.19.105.174 05:07, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's stemming from a 4chan meme (read above).  Also, the name of the meme is "so i heard you liek mudkipz" [sic]. -Jeske (v^_^v) 06:07, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it's called "so i herd you liek mudkipz". --The Raven's Apprentice (PokéNav|Trainer Card) 07:38, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

text: It was written in the story as "So I heard you like Mudkips", never as "So I herd you liek Mudkipz".  So there must have been a corruption somewhere.  --Brandon Dilbeck 20:25, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Um...hello? 

message: The disputes over the meme are starting to spread to the Swampert article, where anons are adding it because Mudkip's semi'd. -Jeske (v^_^v) 17:49, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, the same ol' SIHYLM. -Jéské (v^_^v) 22:22, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Swampert]] 

message: What would Wikipedia do without these middle-schoolers who tirelessly protect the integrity of the Mudkips article?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.142.175.78 (talk) 
:If that's (i.e. "these middle-schoolers") aimed at those of us opposing the meme, I suggest you change your tone to be a bit more civil. -Jeske (v^_^v) 23:51, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: He's incorrect now tho.  I'm a freshman, not a middle schooler.--Ac1983fan 22:30, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thank you 

message: I have requested administrator help over this issue. -Jeske (v^_^v) 21:37, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  NOTICE 

message: perhaps we could start by having a vote by registered editors on whether a "in pop culture" section, knowing full well that there is no verifiable sources, should be added. Second I would like to add that I believe that the WP:3RR has probably been broken on both side off argument. As the promoter of the vote I recuse myself, but I think this needs to settled, so let the voting commence. --SelfStudyBuddy 08:46, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I vote against having a vote. Voting won't get us anywhere. What we need to do here is simply introduce the meme into the article once its notability is established through reliable sources. --Brandon Dilbeck 08:48, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I vote for vote and mudkipz84.48.95.242 08:49, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Aside from the fact that the proposed vote is for registered users only, Voting doesn't trump consensus.  I say no voting. -Jeske (v^_^v) 08:54, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A vote? 

message: This article apparently got real bad in a hurry.  On June 21, 2006, Mudkip was listed as a good article.  A couple weeks later, on July 9, 2006, it was a candidate for Featured Article status, but wasn't promoted, mainly because it was too similar to Torchic, which is another FA.  On that day, Torchic was a FA and remained there until nearly a year later, April 13, 2007.  But enough about Torchic.
Mudkip was a candidate for FA as little as 11 months before it was recently demoted to a Class-B article.  When the first vandalism appeared about the "so i herd u liek mudkips" meme, which I believe was on this day with this edit:  (there might've have been a previous edit, but right now my computer is not allowing me to check any further), but when this first act of vandalism occurred, Mudkip had just undergone Peer Review (see here for the smal peer-review discussion).
This article really got really bad really quick.  And most likely, the repeated acts of vandalism are a contributing factor to this article being delisted .  Have any of the users who have re-added the Mudkip meme content to the article been given a warning of vandalism?  If not, then I certainly think that warning these users would get them to stop or let up a little.  Now, that may be a little bit excessive, as numerous users have vandalized and it would be quite challenging to warn all users who have vandalized the article in such a manner.  But from now on, I believe that we should give warnings to all users who perform acts of vandalism by re-adding the content back to the page, as earlier we have determined that adding it is vandalism (see Jeske's comment above.  --Ksy92003(talk) 16:19, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I dread the day this page goes off unprotection.  An anon screamed at me and at WP:RPP today to unprotect this talk page, and guess what?  It starts with 64. - the same number of the two who were baiting us. -Jeske (v^_^v) 17:08, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article status 

message: I don't get why I just now thought of this.  I'm not sure if anybody else thought about this, but I've got a question:
Is there any proof that the meme was originally posted on 4chan?  --Ksy92003(talk) 06:32, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I wouldn't know - and if they knew my IP address, I'd be marked just over the meme iff I went to find it out.  According to an edit made by Skiom in the midst of this, it started on DeviantART, but I'm not sure. -Jeske (v^_^v) 08:39, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So if it started out on D-Art, and not on 4chan like everybody originally said, then everybody was wrong for a long time.  Before we can even try to find a source, we have to get our cold hard facts straight.  --Ksy92003(talk) 10:43, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  This is all I've ever seen of the meme outside of this talk page.  The nature of WikiChan leads me to believe that this is not a reliable source, nor does it give any references, so there's no evidence that the image on that page is from 4chan.  Someone might argue that the formatting of the copy matches that of 4chan's forums. (I myself don't know.)  --Brandon Dilbeck 16:42, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There's an Uncyclopedia link above with the meme... Wait, the meme is hyperlinked there. Nevermind, the hyperlink is to Uncyclopedia's own 4chan article. -Jeske (v^_^v) 16:49, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Which doesn't help, as that's our own Wikipedia article. -Jeske (v^_^v) 00:54, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Guess I didn't look back in the history far enough.  Last I checked, the Answers.com was first, but with all the reverts, I missed it.  Oops!  Marigold 01:22, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Looking at it, I would suggest adding "So I herd you liek" or something among those lines to your query ("Mudkips" presents Mudkip). -Jeske (v^_^v) 08:03, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wait a second... 

message: In the biological carachteristics section it lists on how baby Mudkips are born but this is the same way all Pokemon hatch and is unneeded info. should I delete it? -I PWN U ALL 19:15, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That was my reasoning, and I gave that as my edit summary when I reverted them again.  --Ksy92003(talk) 20:16, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unesscesary Info 

message: An editor appears to have delisted this article from the GA list before appropriate review at WP:GA/R.  That review has now been completed and can be found here.  The result is that article does not meet GA criteria at this time. --VS talk 07:47, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Delisting of article from GA list confirmed

message: I have requested Semi-protection for Mudkip because the anons seem not to be aware of, or are actively ignoring, the fact that there is still a debate going on about the meme. -Jéské (v^_^v) 21:03, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And make it indefinite. Will (talk) 21:09, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Alison protected the page for two months; that should be enough time to finish the meme debate (knock on Sudowoodo). -Jéské (v^_^v) 23:12, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I just hope they decide to keep the meme off...Nintendo has no affiliation with 4Chan, anyway. Lightwing1988 00:36, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If they do decide to add it, Ksy and I have been dropping hints to list it at List of Internet phenomena, not here. -Jéské (v^_^v) 00:52, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know why we're even having a debate. RS prohibits it. End of. But no, the IPs won't listen, so we're dragged into a perennial debate. Will (talk) 01:17, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Many of the IPs have claimed ownership, claimed they're allied with 4chan, or both.  They're either too stubborn or too overconfident in the ability to edit anonymously to listen.  Sad thing WP:ABUSE seems to have died out... -Jéské (v^_^v) 04:04, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: 4channers are Bree-hobbits. Always claim to do something first, when they rarely do. Will (talk) 10:20, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

text: At least the trolling in the guise of WP:IAR suggestions, personal attacks on Ksy, and threats on myself have died out for the most part. -Jéské (v^_^v) 17:17, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-Protection (Again)