Talk:Chihuahua (dog breed)/Archive 1

message: According to http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/chihuahua.htm Chihuahuas are believed to have come from China to Mexico. From there they went to Europe. The wiki article claims they came from Spain to Mexico. Discus?
--- 71.71.73.98 00:38, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This article needs some mention of the origin debate. I've heard from various sources that the breed either originated in China, Spain, or was a native Mexican breed. --Krsont 12:24, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin 

message: Is it really necessary to list which celebs own a particular breed? It doesn't add value to the article. Plus if every current and former celeb is added, the list would rapidly become the largest section of the article. --75.24.94.239 15:59, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I really don't think so - I really think that these belong on the celeb's page - not on the dog page.   I have removed them.  Trysha (talk) 21:45, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  celebs who own dogs 

message: The article needs size data (length, etc) on this adorable breed. Dionyseus 07:39, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Needs size data

message: It is pretty amazing that such a small dog, can live so long. They can live up to 18 years! The idea that Chihuahuas were descended from fennec foxes flies in the face of all genetic evidence. (I swear I did not mean all that alliteration in that last sentence.) Foxes are a completely different genus as well as species from dogs; in comparison, horses and donkeys are much more closely related, and offspring of the two are sterile mules. Lions and tigers can be crossed and sometimes the offspring are fertile, but they are much more closely related, being two closely related species of the same genus. Saying that Chihuahuas may be descended from foxes is one of those completely unscientific stories that casts aspersions on the validity of Wikipedia as a research tool. Sorry for sounding so nasty in that last sentence; whomever wrote the entry about fennec foxes, I apologize, but it touched a nerve.
::I agree and I've removed that section.  By the way don't forget to always sign your posts in discussion pages by putting four tildes.  Dionyseus 01:40, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fennec foxes 

message: The photo in the infobox doesn't seem like a great choice to me. I'd use a photo of the dog standing, like these ones. I'd replace it myself, but I can't decide which image to use. Pharaoh Hound 13:16, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox photo? 

message: Chihuahua (dog) to Chihuahua. By far, the most common usage of the word in English. Helicoptor 15:51, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation and sign your vote with ~~~~
There's already an article at Chihuahua.  It's about the Mexican state.  Exploding Boy 16:26, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed move

message: I have removed the line 
:Ernesto "Moto" Picasso, often seen around town chihuahua of famous NYC socialite Jennifer Bernstein and well known set designer Tom Lenz
from famous chihuahuas.  The line was added by  who has not been 100% on accuaracy of information. Jon513 19:25, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  removed line 

message: I don't like how we talk about the teacup chihuahuas.  I feel as if there is too much opinion.  Although I agree, I wouldnt consider it wikipedia quality.  What do we think?  User:tingalex  21:33, 24 November, 2006 (UTC)
Iarnuocon 16:07, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have yet to read anything beyond opinion that leads me to believe that there is any inherant danger in the purchasing of a "deerheaded" Chihuahuas. It seems odd than on one hand you would advocate against an arbitrary non-breed-standard designation like teacup, then advocate for distinguishing supposedly deerheaded Chihuahuas in the very same paragraph. The dog may not be breed standard in appearance, but that doesn't mean the purchase of such a dog is dangerous. "Teacup" breeding clearly leads to health problems. The shape of a dog's snout and head in relation to breed standards seems distinguished. I recommend that any discussion of deerheadedness be limited to noting that Chihuahuas with that head shape are not conforming to breed standards for showing and etc... Jo7hs2 21:24, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: teacup section

message: This article was created '00:50, 17 December 2006': Chewy pep.  It is likely to be deleted quickly as the content is only "A slang expression for a Chihuahua-breed dog; originating in Quebec, Canada. In Quebec, a Chihuahua-breed dog is sometimes referred to as a "Chewy Pep"." If this statement is accurate, the article can be converted to a redirect pointing here; it will not survive as an article as it is a slang-dictionary entry (dicdef).  Regards --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 05:15, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: 'Chewy pep'

message: The information about merle in Chihuahuas is incorrect. They are the result of cross breeding and the Chihuahua Club Of America is in the process of revising the standard to exclude the merle pattern and to Disqualify it from the show ring. The health information is also incorrect about merle and this link explains the risks associated with this pattern. http://www.genmarkag.com/home_companion.php I was on the merle Committee for the Chihuahua Club of America and I am also the representative of the CCA membership that has signed and petitioned the club to have the standard revised. Please remove this information as it only encourages the cross breeding of Chihuahuas. Thank you 
Gloria Lambert —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.89.130.38 (talk) 02:20, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merle 01-11-07 

message: This page seems to have far more photos than most on wikipedia. Would it make sense to trim down the  number of photos here? The purpose of a wikipedia article is not to provide a gallery of images featuring the article's subject in a variety of poses. Jaredlenowguy 00:07, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree - I reorganized and tried to preen the page from superfluous photos.  It's just an attempt to spur comments and ideas.  I thought it looked too much like a "Dog Fancy" web page of Chihuahuas, high on "cute photos" and low on "added value".  Again, open to ideas, revisions and suggestions.  --DavidShankBone 03:21, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Too many photos

message: In a few places, people have referred to the appearance and/or temperament of the Chihuahua as "vicious" and "stupid".  I do not feel it is appropriate to characterize any domestic dog breed as "vicious" or "stupid" because (1) "vicious" has a legal connotation that the animal is unsafe to own and/or should be destroyed for the safety of society, (2) both are a value judgement best suited for a specific specimen's personality (which can vary greatly depending on its socialization and training).  I have removed the "stupid" comment, and believe a more accurate temperament description would be the change I made (with regard to Chis and children) to "tendency to bite when frightened" rather than simply "vicious".
Does anyone disagree? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Abinkleysf (talk • contribs) 03:00, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vicious/Stupid characterization 

message: Is this section for Chihuahuas who have achieved some sort of notoriety?  Some of the celebrities listed don't have famous Chihuahuas, the only thing notable is that these Chihuahuas are owned by celebrities.  In other words, Taquito is a notable Chihuahua in his own right, but "Dino Dobie, Black and Brown chihuahua companion of child actress Hailey Anne Nelson" is apparently on the list because of who owns him.  I don't feel strongly one way or the other, although we should rename the section if we plan to include dogs notable simply because of who owns them.  Tinkerbell, Paris Hilton's dog, is obviously notable in her own right.  --DavidShankBone 23:09, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Famous Chihuahua section

message: Chihuahuas as a breed are one of the most notable out there and feature prominently in movies, advertising campaigns and in high-profile organizations.  Many people think of the Taco Bell dog when they think of Chihuahuas, or Bruiser from Legally Blonde.  I believe this section is worth keeping because it fleshes out the prominance of the breed to a reader, it makes the article more embedded in Wikipedia with wiki-links to the books, products, shows and such that feature prominent Chihuahuas, and it rewards a reader with what they think when they turn to the article for information about the breed.  For instance, Paris Hilton is so conflated with her Chihuhuas, and the Taco Bell dog is so famous, that we'd be remiss to not include a section about how the breed is so prominently featured in pop culture.  It's not "trivial" it's very pertinent.  Few breeds can boast as much prominence as the Chihuahua. --David Shankbone 15:50, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The article could benefit from a non-listy paragraph describing the Chihuahuas's place in popular culture.  However, a rambling list like this encourages people to add their own dogs.  For example, the version you keep reverting to features a picture of "the University of Puerto Rico's School of Medicine Volleyball Mascot."  How is that obscure school's volleyball team notable, let alone their team's mascot?  Yes, we could spend time removing the list items that don't seem to meet notability guidelines... or we could accept that the section violates the "Wikipedia is not a indiscriminate collection of information" guideline.  I've seen so many articles where these pop culture lists become the source of petty squabbling over what should be included and what shouldn't; these articles invariably are better off once the lists are forked or removed altogether.  I feel that a well-wrtitten paragraph should replace the list, but I would like to hear what other think.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 16:00, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Keep It just needs to be regularly patrolled. - hmwithtalk 16:33, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No one seems interested in deleting the non-notable entries from the list.  Paquito, for example, is clearly some college student's dog and not at all notable.  I'd clean it up myself but I disagree with the list's very existence.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 02:54, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There's no problem in removing an unnotable, but you stand alone in feeling this list degrades the article.  --David Shankbone 04:30, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I know no one appears agrees with me; that is why I have not removed it after you restored it.  I merely wanted to encourage those who think the list is a good idea to try keep it free from nonsense; so thank you for removing the sillier entries.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 01:52, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Famous Chihuahuas - to keep or not to keep

message: I reverted to the original image, as there are already better examples of both long-haired chihs and the first one was a better example of the color in question. VanTucky 21:58, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  2nd image change 

message: They don't get that fluffy... I have a LH chihuahua and he doesn't have that much hair! The picture of the chihuahua looks like a pomeranian!
:: That's good to know, about your Chihuahua.  I have a longhair Chi and its' hair is some of the longest I have ever seen on any dog of any size.  Eli lilly 18:09, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Are we sure it's a Chihuahua?  --David Shankbone 19:59, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is listed under the Commons Chihuahua section, but as it was uploaded from a different language wiki I am unsure. Let's switch to another option for now. VanTucky (talk) 20:22, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Longhaired Chihuahua 

message: [[Image:
I have a problem with the main photo. When I first saw the chihuahua, I first thought it was the wrong breed posted. the chihuahua posted looks terribly like a baby Boston Terrier, it practically looks the same or mixed with the other dog (I understand that Boston Terrier has short tails, but again, other users have mention this dog appearing to be "mixed". I believe many other users will also be confused) Sometimes in photography, a photo may look great due to sharpness and quality, but its not representative of subject as whole, esp. in this case as the black dog appears to be a puppy version of a different breed as the bigger brown dog.
I believe other pictures may be best first, for one thing, I recommend ChihuahuaPrue.jpg as its looks can not be so easily confused with another breed as much as this one. The papi.jpg shot is also public domain which according to wikipedia, comprises the body of knowledge and innovation (especially creative works such as writing, art, music, and inventions) in relation to which no person or other legal entity can establish or maintain proprietary interests within a particular legal jurisdiction. This means papi.jpg shot can be cropped and colors highlighted for better use, which I or any other wiki-user will be willing to do. This Little Man Chihuahua has a license, and while its license permits usage and editing, it is not the same as public domain, which is where Wikipedia leans to, as is it based on free-content. Unless someone is willing to clean up papi.jpg, ChihuahuaPrue.jpg appears to be a better photo for this article. It may not be as "photo-quality" as the photo now in place, but it does the breed far better justice. 
note that i'm not saying this image is not a chihuahua but i'm saying that there are other chihuahua photos out there which show are more representative. I do understand that when you click on the image it looks more like a chihuahua, but it should appear as a chihuahua from the get go.
Please discuss.Adreamtonight 10:08, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *And to be honest, I don't see the similarities between the bulldog and the main photo Chihuahua, except similar markings and they both have upright ears.  Beyond that, body structure, jowls, nose size, mouth, head width - none of it resembles the other.  They just have slightly similar markings and upright ears.  --David Shankbone 12:15, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

text: *Yeah, I can re-take the photo.  I actually have been wanting to do so for awhile, with the dog next to a soccer ball (or something) to give a height point-of-reference.  I thought that would look kind of cool and I wanted to to do this absent any discussion about the dog's purity, etc.  But I will try to get moving a bit more on it now.  --David Shankbone 16:55, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: * I also want to make a general comment here. Wikipedia is not an advocate for breeders, fanciers, or organization's such as the AKC. We do not make value judgements when it comes to which dogs are better based on a particular breed standard of "purity", and we assume good faith when it comes to the statements of authors as to the content of their photographs. VanTucky (talk) 17:00, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Main Photo 

message: He's a chihuahua born in Japan that was born with a heart shaped pattern in his fur. Would that make him famous enough for the list?74.229.215.99 13:27, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: he is the cutest thing ever! http://message.snopes.com/photos/animals/graphics//heartkun1.jpg  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.122.253.228 (talk) 03:08, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I went ahead and added it. Jo7hs2 21:29, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Heart-Kun

message: There was a recent news story about Booboo, supposedly the new 'world's smallest dog' at 4 inches tall. Could someone fix this (as the smallest dog on the page is outdated?) 76.10.153.220 02:36, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: New Smallest Dog

message: The first sentence mentions The verenice... any clue what that means?  I'm very familiar with the Chihuahua Breed and wonder what that word means.  
Tlspiegel (talk) 03:39, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The verenice  

message: The first picture in this article is a Fox Terrier - WTF?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.222.230.184 (talk) 23:58, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  First Picture 

message: We all should take a crack at writing a proper WP:LEAD for the article.  It's too barren at the top with the one sentence.  --David Shankbone 20:54, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Lead needs to be written

message: I support the removal of the current photo in the infobox and the use of this photo, ChihuahuaPrue.jpg, in its place.  In the current photo the dog's paws are hidden by the grass, its tail is partly hidden, the lighting is uneven, and the poor thing looks like it's taking the pic under duress.  In ChihuahuaPrue the paws are visible, as is the tail, the lighting is even, and the dog looks happy -- overall a better pic.  Also, I support removing the current contrasting sizes pic and the use of this photo, IMG013biglittledogFX_wb, in its place.  The current pic has too many uninvolved items that are distracting, including legs and a blurred passer-by. In IMG013biglittledogFX_wb the only objects are the two dogs whose sizes are being contrasted -- the point of the pic.--72.76.89.177 (talk) 23:00, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Please note that this user was banned for harassment.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 03:14, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the proposed image is better than the current one, but ideally it should be a standing profile shot.  Exploding Boy (talk) 16:20, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

text: Proposed image is much lower resolution than present one. Also, the anonymous IP above has been advocating for the removal of Shankbone's images all across Wikipedia, a motive which should be taken into consideration when deciding this. Cary Bass demandez 17:02, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

text: I'm in favor of keeping the current "Little man" photo given it's superior resolution and quality. OhNoitsJamie Talk 17:21, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Choice of photos

message: I completely agree with calls to change the photograph shown on this page, which in my personal opinion is just not a very good example of the breed.  I would be very happy to ask for permission for us to have a picture of Champion Bramerita Naughty But Nice (Doughnut), which is the best known example of the breed in either long or short coat varieties and is the top winning show dog of all time in the world, so you arent' ever going to get a picture of a better example of a Chihuahua.  I'm sure Shelda, her owner would be more than obliging in providing a pic that can be used or giving us permission to use one from her website.  Would that be satisfactory to everyone? Crazy-dancing (talk) 19:15, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That's going to depend on the quality of the photograph. If we could get a high-quality photo of a notable Chihuahua, that would be great. OhNoitsJamie Talk 20:27, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photo Choice 

message: This is the picture I was recommending for use on this page.  It shows Champion Bramerita Naughty But Nice, the top winning Chihuahua and show dog of any breed in history (am a bit of a fan).  This is a picture from Shelda's own collection and is openly available for use without permission.  Crazy-dancing (talk) 10:36, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Though I still like Shankbone's "Little Man" photo, though I could see how Chihauhau_01_K might be a better lead photo in terms of illustrating breed characteristics. Strictly from an aesthetic standpoint, I like "Little Man" better. Crazy-dancing is also an aesthetically nice picture, especially to illustrate a long-hair; my biggest object with it is the low-resolution. (More and more folks these days are taking advantage of price drops on nice big LCD monitors...) OhNoitsJamie Talk 03:04, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

text: I personally like "Chihauhau_01_K", although I agree its a little ordinary and theres not as much aesthetic appeal. The "little man" picture I believe is distracting. For me personally, its in the ears, which don't look standard to me. But perhaps thats just me?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.138.149.189 (talk) 16:52, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture Option 

message: : Though I still like Shankbone's "Little Man" photo, though I could see how Chihauhau_01_K might be a better lead photo in terms of illustrating breed characteristics. Strictly from an aesthetic standpoint, I like "Little Man" better. Crazy-dancing is also an aesthetically nice picture, especially to illustrate a long-hair; my biggest object with it is the low-resolution. (More and more folks these days are taking advantage of price drops on nice big LCD monitors...) OhNoitsJamie Talk 03:04, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I personally like "Chihauhau_01_K", although I agree its a little ordinary and theres not as much aesthetic appeal. The "little man" picture I believe is distracting. For me personally, its in the ears, which don't look standard to me. But perhaps thats just me?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.138.149.189 (talk) 16:52, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Which of the three proposed photos?

message: The below paragraph is found in the Chihuahua page, and I believe it needs editing and verification, at best, but more than likely should just be deleted. I don't have a Wikipedia account, so I can't do it myself, but maybe someone might be able to do so. 
For one thing, the grammar is incorrect, and there are some inappropriate usage of capital letters. Plus, there are some spelling errors. While doing a quick Google search, I couldn't find any information that points to all tea cup Chihuahuas as suffering from Hydrocephalus, which is what this paragraph implies. 
"The Very small size dog called the tea cup in fact suffers from Hydrocephalus (Water head), where the blockage of CSF outflow in the ventricles or in the subarachnoid space over the brain. The dome of the head is larger in size and the eyes are also squint showing outwards. This is caused by the incorrect pressure on the brain. The dome of the head is normally larger than the normal Chihuahua. They normally have a tendency of having seizures. Many breeders do not know of this. It is commonly found in the Chuhuahua,Toy Pom and very small breeds of dogs."
Thanks!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.18.120.255 (talk) 21:17, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Did the best I could from a copyediting standpoint, but I don't think I've ever even met a chihuahua, so someone may want to still evaluate this stuff for accuracy. Chaoticfluffy (talk) 19:41, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Badly written paragraph; possible misinformation? 

message: It says the average lifespan is 8-22 years.. With a gap of 14 years, this does not seem like an "average" at all, but rather a range. SousaFan88 (talk) 08:18, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Average Lifespan? 

message: i have a chi.
he is a very loving boy, his name is remmy. he is a blk/wh. more blk than wht. short hair. i call him my crazy little bat man..lol!he just goes crazy and runs in circles..this leeds me to my question i can't seem to find anywhere...is this normal for him to always run in circles? he does this when he is happy,playing some times eating..deffinatly when he goes potty and just fore no reason at all. he makes himselfe dizzy!
 my other question is how in the world do i potty train this little man????!!!!! i have tried potty pads.(didn't even snif it) also tried that training pee,pee stuff.(OMG!) grossssss! ihave him going out side but only when i take him out every 1/2 hr. to an hr.
Sometimes he will come in just from pooing or peeing and pee or poo on the floor! i even give him a treat after each time he goes pee or poo when we are outside. OH PLEASE HELPE! any ideas?  thank you.     please email me. c.kennedy35@yahoo.com  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.154.68.8 (talk) 21:31, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  need help! 

message: I found several misspellings in the history section.  I will write the correct spelling under the phrase which contains the misspelled word(s) in order to make it easier for someone to correct (I am new and not allowed to edit the article myself because it is semi locked). 
The most common theory and most likely is that Chihuahuas are descended from the Techichi, a companion dog favoured by the Toltecs and that the modern dog developed through breeding with miniaturised Chinese dogs brought to the Americas by the Spanish Conquistadors. 
1) Favored 
2) Miniaturized 
After the Toltecs were conquered by the Aztecs, it is believed that this early ancestor of the Chihuahua was adopted as a symbol of the upper classes and it has been suggested that they were used in religious ceremonies for the absolution of sins and to guide the sprits of the dead. 
I am not sure if the writer intended to mean sprits or spirits. 
In terms of size, the present day Chihuahua is much smaller than its ancestors and this is thought to be down to the introduction of miniaturised Chinese dogs into South America by the Spanish. 
1) Miniaturized. 
Since that time, the Chihuahua has remained consistently popular as a breed, particularly in America when the breed was first recognised by the American Kennel Club in 1904.
1) Recognized.
I hope that helps. 
Nyctimus (talk) 23:37, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Nyctimus, welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for taking the time to post these details on the talk page. I corrected the "sprits" error (to "spirits"), but the rest of the items you pointed out are actually British spelling/American spelling differences, and not misspellings. Both spelling styles are generally acceptable here (see Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#National_varieties_of_English), so since there is no particular reason for this article to be spelled with American rather than British spelling, I didn't change "favoured," "recognised," or "miniaturised." Chaoticfluffy (talk) 23:53, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  I found a few spelling mistakes 

message: I think, having no biases among breeds, that this one is the most charming.  They have great natural ability at judging people and winning them over. I don't own one, but have met several and among all dogs, they are the most winning personalities.  I just hope someone out there can find a reference to back up my opinion. ;)  The article generally discusses biting, but this breed has more wonderful qualities than that. ----  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.73.12.150 (talk) 05:26, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Temperment... 

message: Can we PLEASE do something about the awful photo on th is page?    It doesn't even look like a chihuahua!    Some guy took a picture of his dog and claimed it is a champion chihuahua which is just laughable.   Looks like this has been argued over forever,  I'm being bold and changing it.   CarlosRodriguez (talk) 20:44, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Erm... just to point out, the earlier reference on this talk page about the photograph of a champion chihuahua is actually in reference to the long haired pictured above.  This actually is the top winning champion chihuahua in the world and a seven times breed winner at Crufts, so if you think that is laughabl;e, you obviously don't know your Chihuahuas! Crazy-dancing (talk) 20:58, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

text: Fair enough then, thanks for putting me right on that, sorry.  Crazy-dancing (talk) 20:25, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  photo is AWFUL