Talk:New York Latino English

message: 1) Sephardic Jews are not latino (unless they happen to be latino, IE born in latin america etc)
2 Most NY Sephardic Jews Speak Arabic or Farsi as home language (or Hebrew) 
3) even Latino Jews (Jews from Latin America) usually associate with other Jews and tend to take on there Dialects
4) Ladino Speakers are not found in abundance in NY (as apposed to say seatle)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.72.241.66 (talk) 11:37, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed nonsense about Sephardic Jews 

message: In no way do sephardic Jews see themselves in the same vein as anyone who identifies him/herself as a "latino."  Sephardic Jews relate to Jews first and foremost.  Latino is a new identification marker and Sephardic Jew is not.  Further, Sephardic Jews think like Jews, meaning, they think in historical persepective, and avoid fads and trends in thinking, talking, and behaving.  For this reason, Sephardic Jews should not be included in this summary of illiterate New York Public School-driven Hispanic English.  ?Me entiende profesor?  Gracias, pero los judios sefardi no quieren ser incluidos con los dichos latinos en "Nueva Yol", y, no hablamos como ellos hablan. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.44.93.71 (talk) 04:30, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If, instead of anonymously adding in ignorant racist nonsense to the discussion, you had simply edited out the reference to Sephardic Jews in the main article, you would have done everyone a favor. mnewmanqc (talk) 08:39, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Sephardic Jews

message: "In some movies American street thugs, including non-Latino ones, may use NYLE features or other features of other Latino English varieties. As result, some people may inaccurately associate NYLE with delinquent street culture."  Wrong. Many people associate NYLE with failure to become educated. Not being educated often results in a life of delinquent street culture. So, it is not so inacurrate when the common denominator between NYLE and delinquent street culture is failure to become educated. Pul-lease. What crap! 24.44.93.71 04:46, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: ==

message: The dialect shows influence of New York European American English and African American Vernacular English  and contact with Spanish.
What proof is there that New York Latino is influenced by AAVE? In this statement too, it's misleading. It's saying there's a balance of AAVE and New York dialect, which there's not, for a variety of reasons. One, the European-American population of New York is significantly higher than the African-American population. New York City is 11.6% African-American. It's 7% West Indian, 0.4% Sub-Saharan African immigrants and 8% Afro-Latino. New York City is close to 45 percent which, nearly 4 times the amount of the African-American population. Also, while there may be a few non-African-American's who speak AAVE, not all African-American's speak AAVE, so the percentage is below 11.6%.
Note that being West Indian is it's own ethnicity, and one of the largest ones of New York City. Contrary to the belief of someone who said West Indians resembled AAVE features, without a source, being black and African-American are not necessarily the same thing. Just because you're black doesn't mean you'll speak AAVE. In fact, most Caribbean immigrant's and their children wouldn't, because they're often apart of socioeconomic classes, which subsequently can create isolation.
In reference to Puerto Rican's, or other Latino's, is why would they speak AAVE? There are some reasons to support why there may be, but they're not listed on it. Also, although I won't change it, I don't agree with part the assessment of the beginning of the article, as it similarly lacks source. In that, it says New York Latino English. The problem is, if you were to look up New York dialect, that doesn't say European-American New York dialect, because European-Americans are not the only ones who speak it. Most New Yorker's, of all races speak that, or general American English, which certainly can hinge on what state they were born and raised in. Generally speaking though, immigrants and their descendants camouflage into the majority of the society. The second problem with saying New York Latino, and than saying sometimes called Nuyorican English is that it only recognizes Puerto Rican culture. Puerto Rican background only makes up roughly 3/8 of Latino ancestry in New York City.
Consonant cluster simplifications such as the loss of dental stops after nasals (e.g., bent) and fricatives, (e.g., left, test). this leads to a characteristic plural, in which words like tests are pronounced [t̪ɛst̪ɪs], sometimes written as testes. This feature is shared by African American Vernacular English. 
I understand there's little source throughout much of this page, which is another problem of it's own, but in this particular quote, it'd be necessary for two reasons. It's saying that this feature is in AAVE, which there's nothing to support that. The fact is no there has to be evidence there to support such statements. Also, although it's not that important, the first word wasn't properly capitalized.
It's common knowledge that immigrant's will camouflage into majority rule. In saying that, it'd be widely to accept why New York Latino English would have more traits relevant to English. Also, AAVE is not regarded as an official form of English, and is highly regarded by some, namely Thomas Sowell, as less educated. Mind that he's brilliant, an African-American born and raised in North Carolina in 1930, who lived through the heart of the Civil Rights movement. He once referred to AAVE as a dysfunctional break off of white southern culture. I don't necessarily agree with that assessment, but it's certainly true that AAVE is a product of southern culture. And for that, it often doesn't camouflage itself into Northern states, especially New York City, which is one of the heaviest and distinctive accents in the region. So speaking AAVE in New York City can arguably be seen as a form of non-assimilation into dominant mainstream linguistics. The heaviest traits of AAVE tend to be in the poor and working class sector too, because many, like Sowell, viewed AAVE to be dysfunctional in the professional world. Therefore, many either don't speak AAVE or limit it.
It'd be hard that a new working-class immigrant group, such as Puerto Ricans, who primarily moved to NYC and other parts of the U.S. in between 1946-1964, would assimilate or significantly take after the traits of an accent that's heaviest within poor and working-class individuals. I'm not saying it's not possible, but the facts don't support it. Nearly all Puerto Rican-Americans in the New York City area don't speak a dialect similar to AAVE. Not just have the younger generation been born in America, but most of their parents were too, and sometimes, even grandparents. So Puerto-Rican's aren't reflective of other newer Latino groups in New York City. New York City had a considerable population decline in the 1970's, as did many city's, and between the Vietnam War and a sluggish economy, immigrant's were less encouraged to come during this period of time. So there's often 2 to 4 decades in terms of arrival to the U.S. that separate Puerto Ricans (as well as Cubans) and Dominicans, Colombians and other Latino groups.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.73.230.11 (talk) 09:02, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. In any case, the similarities between New York Latino English are in fact documented first in Wolfram (1974), who dealt with Puerto Rican English, and in Slomanson & Newman (2004), who report on speakers from Puerto Rican and non-Puerto Rican heritages. mnewmanqc (talk) 20:58, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

text: Tom, there is actually a source for pre-liquid laxing in Latino English, but it's a talk given at a conference, and so it's not easily recoverable. So I'm fine with leaving it out. As for the lack of similarity with AAE, I just don't follow you. If you're arguing that there is no similarity, then you have to find something in the literature that supports your position, but the only sources that exist say there is a relationship between them. There's also a relationship between NYLE and the local European American NY Dialect, but there is no research supporting that. It's just easy to tell by listening to people. When I or someone else publishes data on this in a peer reviewed journal or book, then  we can post it here. However, as of now there is one book and one article now on the connections with AAE and nothing disputing that. So that needs to stay in. Furthermore, I am confident that nothing disputing that will be published, complexifying it possibly but not disputing it. Why? because anyone who looks at the data will see that there is a close relationship, as befits the historical patterns of neighborhood settlement in New York.  But perhaps that's not what you're saying. I do have a bit of difficulty following you.mnewmanqc (talk) 16:08, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Two Statements Regarding AAVE Influence Lack Source And Are Disputable 

message: Unfortunately, an edit war has broken out due to anonymous edits by 121.58.200.168 who is inserting the following statement, which I can't actually understand and in any case comes with no references:
"Large populations of Latino Americans of African descent (including mulattoes), started by Afro-Puerto Ricans, tend to acquire a mixture of distinct Caribbean accent (similar to that of nearby islands in the West Indies from Puerto Rico) and African American Vernacular English (AAVE) by tone, and New York Latino English by phonology"
I'm not sure what to do at this point. mnewmanqc (talk) 02:37, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: edit war

message: It seems that, although there are separate grammatical features, the majority of the phonological features seems to be very similar to New York City English.  To explain my position in full, here is a list of the features that are shared with New York:
* Dental stopping
* Lack of velarization of initial l
* Variable rhoticity
As for the grammatical features, I don't think they really justify classifying this as a separate dialect.  Both Italian and Jewish speakers also use separate grammatical features.  However, they are not considered to be separate dialects.  Rather, they are variations of the New York dialect.LakeKayak (talk) 22:50, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: There is one more thing I probably should say.   I understand that you have written books on New York Latino English.  Therefore, showing all due to respect to you, my only question is whether or not this article should be on its own Wikipedia page.  And I will not question the authenticity of your findings.LakeKayak (talk) 02:46, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no objection to moving it. Point of Information: I didn't write any books on NYLE, but I wrote one book on NYCE. mnewmanqc (talk) 02:40, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

text: Done.  My conclusion was partially influence by the fact that this page was rarely watched, anyway.  (I only could tell from the page history.)  Nonetheless, the page has been moved successfully with New York City English.LakeKayak (talk) 00:02, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why is this on a separate page? 

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