Talk:Anal sex/Archive 1

message: This may also be of interest: Check talk:feces. A self-appointed censor admin is suppressing the wishes of the majority of editors, and she is blocking inclusion of a photograph at feces. Eyeon 23:33, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Referendum Results Ignored, Admin Blocks Page

message: I have a couple of complaints about this page, as follows: 
:in this passage "In the same mentality, women were not officially allowed to find pleasure in sex, therefore sex was only served as a sort of marital prostitution; in this sense, under the sole husband's determination, anal sex was a form of contraception too in the case of couples who already had too many babies, since the ignorance about other methods was total. Similar facts were reported up to a very few decades ago, and it is currently impossible to certify whether this mentality has been totally abandoned or has otherwise been substantially modified." 
It seems clear to me that a strong opinion is present here. I object to this statement particularly "sex was only served as a sort of marital prostitution" as even in a specific example, I don't see how consummating the act of marriage can be seen as prostitution, even if in some particular it could, it is quite disturbing to label an entire culture as marital prostitutes. Also, I can't see the point of saying "women were not officially allowed to find pleasure in sex", as even if there are laws to this effect (which I doubt) they certainly would not be enforceable, and would thus be irrelevant.
and this statement here "Although both men and women might enjoy anal sex, because of this physical difference, men often have an easier time enjoying anal sex." 
This seems to go far beyond the objective, and rather seems to dwell on some subjective personal musing, not something needed in a encyclopedia entry. If there is some evidence supporting this opinion, please feel free to correct me. Sorry if I came on a bit strong, but while I like this entry overall, I can't stand by on a subject so dear to my heart. ;)
(the above is my first talk edit, which I will now sign, long after the fact Sam Spade 07:21, 15 Feb 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Complaints

message: ' Among gay men who do enjoy anal sex, some reserve it only for committed relationships.  '
I think this can be worded/expressed better. It doesn't come across as encyclopedic Sam Spade 08:37, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have any documentation? And is this common enought to warrant mention? How many is this some. Some isn't very many. Would you say many? How do we know? It doesn't strike me as particularly verifiable. Sam Spade 08:54, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)

text: That would be handy because I recently heard the opposite was true, that monogomy was rare amongst male homosexuals, thus asisting a rise in AIDS rates. Sam Spade 09:05, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  musing or research or what? 

message: I really think this is a better section header than 'Anal sex among gays and lesbians' or whatever. Its simply more accurate, and besides, its shorter and looks better. Sam Spade 19:39, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anal sex among homosexuals 

message: The top of this talk page says: "This article was a featured article candidate with unresolved objections. Please help to resolve these objections so the article can be re-nominated and featured."
Here are a few things this article would need, in my opinion, before it reached "featured article" status.
#Images. All featured articles have appropriate and informative pictures. I've heard it rumored that one can find images relating to this topic on the internet, though I wouldn't know, myself.
#External links. There might possibly be a site or two devoted to this topic on the internet.
 – Quadell (talk) (help) 03:13, Nov 18, 2004 (UTC)
I would personally be strongly in favor of no pictures at all. You surely mean that all featured articles up to now always had appropriate and informative pictures. Note that having a picture is not a demand for becoming a featured article, and frankly, I think this is a good test case. In particular, a picture of anal intercourse would not add anything, unless you expect people to be unfamiliar with the anus (in which case, see there).
One thing I still miss is a brief recap of what the term ethnonym means. You can't just toss around  linguistic terms like this in a non-linguistic article; at the very least give a Wiktionary link. JRM 18:29, 2004 Dec 8 (UTC)
:Come on, JRM, there are other images besides this one that would be relevant. :) For example, we can include a chart, a book cover, a photo of some gay rights activist, a cartoon, a screenshot of some relevant law, etc. It doesn't have to show hot male-on-male action. BTW, what do you think about that famous Flash with "I AM LOOKING AT GAY PORNO!!!" sound? :) Paranoid 22:36, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unresolved objections 

message: This is the first article I ever edited on the wiki (actually this talk page was my very first edit). What inspired me to begin editing was the overiding bias against female receptive anal sex. This bias recently returned, and I assume it will probably continue to reoccur. I find this unfortunate, and would request assitsance and understanding from other editers regarding this circumstance.  17:16, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Cripes, cite a study or something objective, don't just keep emphasizing your POV that girls don't like to take it in the can.  16:55, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  creeping bias 

message: a few initial questions...
#in my circles, the use of sex toys and other activities involving the anus and rectum is referred to as anal play, not anal sex. anal sex, as far as i've known, must involve a penis.
#"Anal sex remains taboo in some cultures..." isn't it many cultures?
#"particularly in older works..." older works? does this mean old poems? old laws? old plays? please elaborate.
more to come later, Kingturtle 17:27, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  questions that need to be cleared up 

message: The article mentions: "Additionally, nothing longer than eight inches (20 cm) -- be it a penis, a vibrator, or anything else -- should be inserted into the rectum. Objects exceeding eight inches risk colliding with the sigmoid colon, the lining of which is probably not much stronger than a wet paper towel, and trauma can result in internal bleeding with potentially fatal results."
When I saw the passage above, I looked up the fisting article, which mentions nothing of the sort. How accurate is the claim of the eight inches (20cm)? Isn't it safe to do this with some progressive practicing? Some people do it and seem happy with it. Eje211 01:41, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Removed.  You're right, it's a rather ridiculous claim without supporting data. -- Dpark 02:36, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Depth issue 

message: The "recipient", aka "Bottom", is the person whose anus is penetrated. The person is called "Bottom" because in a typical missionary anal sex position that person lies flat and face down while the penetrating partner lies atop the Bottom. The recipient is typically called the Bottom regardless of the position(s) used during the sex act.   
    
==Anal Sex Techniques
Some anal sex recipients have somewhat negative experiences, often because the taboo nature of the act precludes candid discussions of how to avoid pain and enhance pleasure.    
    
Anal sex enthusiasts are well-known for correctly saying that, "If it was painful, you were doing it wrong". When done properly, anal sex is an intense and pleasurable form of stimulation.   
   
The most necessary elements of a good experience are communication, lubrication, and relaxation.   
    
* Communication - it is important that the partners discuss their plans for the experience beforehand. This is especially important when the recipient is a relative novice. The partners can then agree on the kind of experience and the type, speed, gentleness and/or roughness of the stimulation they wish to have. This is also a good time to discuss some "safe words" the recipient can say to signal they wish to stop, pause, or intensify the activity. One suggestion for safe words is "red light", "yellow light" and "green light". This period of communication also allows the partners to discuss fantasies or positions that they might find particularly satisfying.   
    
* Lubrication - It is important to emphasize that neither the anus nor the colon produce their own lubrication. The lubrication must be supplied, ideally in abundant quantities, by the sex partners. Lubrication helps to ease initial dilation of the anus, and penetration into the colon, both of which help prevent irritation or minute tearing of those tissues. The colon is lined with a delicate mucous membrane that tears easily, similar to the inside lining of your facial cheeks. This tearing would allow the potential entry of viruses from the top's semen into the bottom's body, which is why it is important to minimize any slight nicks or tears, although no amount of lubrication will completely prevent tearing. As an extra measure of protection against infection, proper use of a condom is highly recommended. Water-based lubrication such as Astroglide or K-Y Jelly should be used, since oil-based products will chemically break down the latex which will probably result in a broken condom. Lubrication can also enhance the pleasure of the recipient partner. The rule of thumb is to use as much lubrication as you think you will need...and then use double that amount. Fully coat the condomed penis or the sex toy with water-based lubrication, paying special attention to the tip. After a few strokes, drip more lubrication onto the penis or the toy.   
    
* Relaxation - The purpose of the anus is to remain tightly pursed, in order to retain the body's waste. It must be gently and slowly persuaded to relax. In the same way that an experienced runner prepares for a jog, it is wise to begin slowly and stretch little by little. Often the "top" will caress the buttocks and anus of the recipient, and may lubricate and insert a small finger up to the first knuckle. It may be wise for the "top" to wear a latex glove to prevent infections of any unnoticed nicks on the skin of the finger. The top may also use a small sex toy recommended for anal play with a flared based designed to prevent the toy from being fully inserted and getting stuck inside the bottom's colon, which would require medical attention. After a time, when the bottom signals a willingness, the top may use a thicker finger, a bigger toy, or several fingers. After the bottom senses that they are relaxed and ready to experience the sensations as pleasure, the bottom is ready for penetration by the top.   
    
Penetration should be sensuously slow, gentle, and controlled by the bottom.   
    
==Anal sex positions 
* Missionary anal - Although very seldom depicted in erotic movies because it blocks the view of the penetration, this may be a very common position in real life. The bottom lies flat and face down, legs together. After the preparations and relaxations described above, the top will sit astride the bottom with the top's penis or the top's sex toy pointed at the bottom's anus. Slow, gentle penetration can then begin, after which the Top also lies flat entirely on the Bottom's body. This position is very familiar from other kinds of sex, allows the top to feel the curve and shape of the bottom's buttocks, and somewhat minimizes the depth of penetration which may be more comfortable for the Bottom.   
   
* Doggy style - This position maximizes the depth of penetration, which may be desirable by Top and / or Bottom, but poses the risk of pushing against the sigmoid colon. If the Bottom is a male, this position increases the chances of stimulating the prostate. This position makes easier a more vigorous thrusting action.   
   
* Spooning - The Top and Bottom lie on their sides, facing the same direction, with the Top's lubricated penis or toy touching the outside of the Bottom's anus. This allows the Bottom to greatly control initial entry and the depth, speed and force of subsequent thrusting.   
 
* Face to face - The bottom lies on her or his back, legs in the air. This can be easier if the bottom is on a bed or table and the top is standing on the floor. 
</blockquote>
This information is not only poorly written, it doesn't belong here.  It amounts to pure speculation in some areas besides which Wikipedia is not an instruction manual.  Much of this information is better covered elsewhere or not needed at all.
Exploding Boy 23:23, July 11, 2005 (UTC)
:Why did you revert the caption? If memory serves, in previous discussion it was more-or-less unaminously agreed that "men" is not a good caption, and we were trying to find alternate terms like youth, boy, 'etc. →Raul654 23:26, July 11, 2005 (UTC)
::That was unintentional; I'll change it back.  Exploding Boy 23:28, July 11, 2005 (UTC)
:::Ah ok - good deal. →Raul654 00:12, July 12, 2005 (UTC)
::If the above is poorly written, please edit it, removing inaccuracy and restoring the overview. The article should describe variations of the act, compare Sexual intercourse. ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 00:25, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Top and Bottom

message: . ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 15:13, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Please xplain your revert

message: Okay, this list is starting to sound silly and made-up, not to mention fairly useless.  What we need is a list that includes a short description, and in the case of obscure slang terms, one or more sources for each term.  I'm replacing the current list, which is a list of increasingly odd terms with no description at all, with the positions list in the excerpt quoted above (that had been removed for other reasons).  We can edit it from there.  --Skoosh 18:20, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of positions 

message: I'm sick of seeing your slow edit war of this page pop up in my watchlist again and again and again and again. Work it out, take it to mediation, RfC it, Request arbitration on each other, go outside and beat each other senseless with polystyrene bats, I don't care, just work it out and stop edit warring. --fvw<SMALL>*</SMALL> 12:53, August 30, 2005 (UTC)
:I am agreeable to any of those suggestions. Too bad mediation is so ineffectual, or I'd already have tried bringing EB there. If you'd be willing to stay involved to whatever extent, I'm sure that would help. Tasks  you can do 13:40, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protected 

message: ::If you have specific problems, make specific changes, forget the reverts! What I don't like is your large arbitrary deletions, and your insistance on a anti-female receptive anal sex POV. Out side of that, I have no disagreement w you on this article. How about we ask user:fvw to mediate? I'm no homophobe, no matter wtf you say! Your the only gay persecutor I can remember having had. lets get over it! Tasks  you can do 00:15, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: General comment to EB

message: If EB agrees to stop editing the article until mediation is completed, I will likewise. We can always discuss concerns here on the talk page if absolutely necessary. If EB and gracenote agree (in writing, below), I suggest we request for unprotection. Sam Spade 13:47, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Unprotection

message: When unlocked, can we shrink the initial image to a more standard size?  At 300px, it seems obtrusive on the body text.  A standard unsized frame is better, or perhaps explicitly sized at 200px.  Obviously, readers who want more image detail can click for the full sized image. Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters 19:51, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Initial image too large 

message: Would somebody please revert the nonsense edits by 199.111.227.16.  I've agreed not to edit this article until discussions with Sam Spade are done.  Exploding Boy 20:37, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: IMHO, they don't appear to be entirely "nonsense"; for the most part, they look like different ways of phrasing the existing content.  It could stand a POV cleanup and some copyediting, though. - jredmond 20:58, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

text: I cleaned up quite a bit of that in an edit done right after my earlier comment: .  Still working on it, though. - jredmond 21:30, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

text: Ah - got it.  Wasn't sure if you had seen it or not. - jredmond 21:53, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Recent edits