Talk:Eva Perón/Archive 1

message: I hope others will keep an eye on her age. Someone keeps changing it in the Buenos Aires section. Someone just inserted that she went to Buenos Aires at age 9. She went at 15, of course. Andrew Parodi 07:54, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Of course.Foolscape 21:17, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Changing her age

message: Evita was not invovled in helping Nazis escape justice. Juan Peron did that. Evita herself was not involved. And she was not a supporter of Mussolini or Hitler. Here is an article you should read, by an Argentine scholar who actually knows Argentine history: 
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/1997/int/970120/cinema.the_woman.html 172.193.196.25 22:25, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Gerbald [sic] should be spelled Gelbard Jclerman 05:21, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. -- Andrew Parodi 11:28, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

text: In Spanish, Evita is the standard nickname for Eva. Ejrrjs 02:14, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nazi support 

message: Could you please provide a reference to this (strong) claim? Thanks in advance, Ejrrjs 21:49, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Who cares when she lost her virginity? On the broad timeline of her life I don't see how that is much of an issue. -- Andrew Parodi 14:52, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

text: Then I have an article you should start: Evita Peron's Virginity and When it Was Lost. -- Andrew Parodi 23:36, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: My, my, I didn't know "editors" lowered themselves to such childish talk and behavior Mr. Parodi. Foolscape 17:26, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: NOTE: Personal attack by Foolscape against me. This is not allowed on Wikipedia. Andrew Parodi 10:50, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Well, Eva Peron was known for her perceived-promiscuous nature...At 15, she left home with a married man, so I think there is some relevances...Maybe put it in less severe wording. Michael 22:54, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Allegedly left home with a married man. That's still being debated. And I don't see how the loss of her verginity is linked to anything important in her life or the history of Argentina, so I don't see why it should be included. 207.200.116.200 15:48, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:   At age 14, she lost her virginity to tango singer [[José Armani]]. 

message: If she's more commonly knwn as Evita, as the lead admits, then this article should be found at Evita instead of Eva, per Wikipedia article naming conventions. DreamGuy 10:42, August 21, 2005 (UTC)
:Ah, but Evita is the musical about her life. Michael 22:56, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: More commonly known as Evita

message: Peron died of cervical cancer not uterine cancer and most likely so did Juan Peron's first wife. Cervical is caused by the Human Papilloma virus. Dakota 17:13, September 10, 2005 (UTC)
*Evita did die of the cervical cancer. Below the NY times story link. Peron knew of it but she was not told. He was afraid he would lose his election so had her secretly operated on.-Levarro 17:59, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Concerning Eva Peron's cause of death

message: I just expanded the article quite a bit, and gave it headers. I'm basically a lay scholar in the life of Evita. I know more about her than I should. :) -- Andrew Parodi 14:41, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Expanding article

message: An editor recently submitted this link to the Spanish version of this page: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eva_Per%C3%B3n
I now see that this English language page was based on the Spanish page, or vice versa. Whatever the case, the Spanish language page about Evita is plagued with errors, which is a bit surprising because one would think that it would be people outside of Evita's culture who would make the greatest errors. Anyway, all edits I have made on this page about Eva Peron are in line with the numerous biographies and article I have read about her over more than 14 years. I can't possibly quote a passage from the particular book with every edit; that would require a virtual transcription of the books themselves, which is not the point of thise site, of course. -- Andrew Parodi 03:03, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Spanish language Eva Peron page

message: I hope it won't offend anyone, but I uploaded a scan of Eva Peron on the cover of Time Magazine and I put that scan at the top of the page. I felt that this was more appropriate for the top of the page, because Evita's appearance on Time Magazine shows that during her lifetime she was not only important to Argentines but also considered an interesting figure by the editors of what is perhaps the biggest and most mainstream political weekly in the United States. I believe that this cover depicts the international impact Evita had during her life, whereas the stamp with her picture on it, of course, commemorates her death "after the fact." Also, I think it's significant to note that she is the only South American first lady to ever appear on the cover of Time Magazine. -- Andrew Parodi 05:59, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Switched pictures

message: Can somebody clarify the meaning of this statement and provide a source for it? Jclerman 02:01, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The statement is found in the book "Evita: The Real Life of Eva Peron" by Nicholas Fraser and Marysa Navarro, on page 131: "... of policy, it did function better than many more rational and more frugal institutions. For the first time, there was no inequality in Argentine health care. Allegations of waste are difficult to substantiate if a high proportion of whatever the money is spent on is actually ..." Amazon.com has a feature where you can now search within books. You can go to the listing on Amazon.com and search out to make sure that the statement is there  -- Andrew Parodi 07:05, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:   "...there was no inequality in health care among citizens..." 

message: I took the liberty of creating a section of the page that addresses the allegations that Eva Peron was a Nazi and Fascist sympathizer. I believe this is an important issue because most people who know about Evita know her because of the musical by Andrew Lloyd Webber, and I have read that his portrayal of Evita became even more negative for the New York debut for fear that if it was not negative then people would perceive him as glamorizing an anti-Semitic woman. In addition to this, I noticed that long before I became involved in editing this article, someone else on this talk page mentioned that they wanted to see some reference to this topic on the main page. 
I'm not sure if I put the section in the best place possible for the page, and I'm not sure if my layout of this section is the best. There are others here that can clean it up if they would prefer. At the very least, I got the section going, and I'll be interested to see what others add. I think this is in an important topic and I'm interested in learning more about it. -- Andrew Parodi 16:23, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Section about allegations of Nazi and Fascist sympathizing

message: I hope that others will help where they can with improving this page. She is a major icon and, unfortunately, much of what is available about her on the Internet is not the helpful, aside from the two or three useful biographies you can order on Amazon, etc. 
Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that if anyone here sees a way to clean this article up and improve it, I sure hope they will lend their expertise. I think that it would be wonderful if this page could be really good and therefore provide other people with some more accurate information about her. -- Andrew Parodi 14:43, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you to whoever corrected that Isabel was Peron's third and not second wife. For some reason, I always forget about Aurelia Tizón. I suppose because she didn't go into politics. So little is known about her. She's a tragic figure. -- Andrew Parodi 11:49, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Please offer any help you can

message: The article claims that Eva was alredy married to Juan Peron when he was arrested (later freed by the massive rally of the descamisados).
Actually Eva and Juan did not marry until after his release and just before his election as president. In the essay "Los obreros y yo" written by Eva herself, she tells of the rally and refers to herself as unmarried. She and Juan were married on October 21, 1945 while Juan was freed on October 17, 1945.
Again, just a minor detail.
: Thanks for adding this. And thank you to everyone else who has been adding to this article. -- Andrew Parodi 18:31, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minor detail amendment 

message: Someone uploaded an interesting picture of a bust of Eva Peron. They added it to the top of the page, along the introductory paragraphs. I took the liberty of moving it further down the page. It is an interesting picture, but I think it is too grainy and not exactly the kind of picture for the top of the page; and I think the two pictures there made the top of the page too "busy" anyway. -- Andrew Parodi 08:34, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Time Magazine is instantly recognizable to most US citizens, therefore I figure a picture of Evita on the cover of Time magazine is more appropriate for the top of this page. It gives people an instant understanding of how important she was in her time. As I note, she's the only first lady in Latin American history to get on the cover of the US Time magazine. -- Andrew Parodi 08:44, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: New picture of Eva Peron bust

message: *See  testimonies that relate to most of the topics discussed above. 17 December 2005.
*See imagination relating to this article. 19 Decenber 2005.
: As to whether Peron was a dictator and/or fascist, there is no absolute definition of "fascism." And where I note that he was not fascist and not a dictator, I back those statements up with reference to scholars' sources. The reader is free to search out the works of those scholars and then make their own conclusions. If you like, you can insert your argument that he was a fascist and a dictator, but please do so with backup sources. But it is generally understood now that pretty much the only people who consider Peronism to have been fascism and a dictatorship are the anti-Peronists. Peronists, of course, do not consider Peronism to be fascism, and most historians now agree that it was not fascism or a dictatorship. He won three popular votes, and most of policies were enacted with support of the majority of the citizenry. -- Andrew Parodi 09:59, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Addendum to most of the above

message: Another incorrect fact: revise this interval. Jclerman Jclerman 14:34, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: If you know the correct date, please revise it yourself. Thank you. What I meant to emphasize is that Eva and Juan Peron and Peronism were banned during this period, often by military dictatorships. But I probably could've worded it better. You probably know more about that era of Argentine history than me, so please revise the statement as you see fit. -- Andrew Parodi 09:54, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You are the one that claims to base your writing on scholars. Check them about this statement, then. How can we trust that the other sections of the article dealing with less public-record events have been better verified? --69.9.26.177 18:18, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "From 1955 until 1971, the military dictatorship of Argentina"

message: watched a documentary and eva peron's sister  stated on seeing the embalmed body about liquid staining  on the corpse's feet - which could either be embalming or seminal(?) fluid -- tali 16/01/05
:From what I've read, that's the least of what happened to her body. I've read that sexual acts were performed on the body, and that someone took a hammer to the face (smashing her cheek bone in), someone cut one of her breasts, and I believe that after the body's return to Argentina one of the fingers was removed by Argentine officials so as to verify that it was the actual corpse and not one of the several copies that had been made. If you care to insert this into the article, feel free. A little too gross for me to want to deal with, though. -- Andrew Parodi 10:48, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There used to be a picture accessible on Google Images, which was in black and white, showing her face.  Her nose also looked as if it had been crushed...Pretty disgusting... Michael 23:24, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  corpse abuses 

message: Someone went through the entire page and took the accents off of the "O" in Perón. Geez. I wish I had that kind of time. Anyway, I reverted the text. -- Andrew Parodi 11:09, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Replacing the accented "O"

message: There's a link at the bottom of the page that is called "First Ladies," but in reality it is a link to an article about "infamous women" portrayed on Off-off Broadway: 
http://www.thevillager.com/villager_42/infamouswomen.html
Would anyone mind if I removed this link? The article is not really about Eva Peron the historical woman, but plays about various women -- and there are only about one or two references to Eva Peron in the article. It doesn't seem that "notable" of an article to link to this page. --- Andrew Parodi 08:59, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I vote to leave the link, that is, not to remove. It's about first ladies, or summit ladies spouses of famous men. Evas and others. Famous or infamous lies in the mind of the beholder, in this case of the person who chose the name of the link and short subtitle. My vote is to leave the link as it is. BTW, there are three explicit references to Eva Perón and one of the plays contains "long and vivid soliloquies, revelations of character taken directly from research sources". Jclerman 09:07, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe it should be incorporated into the section about "Eva Peron as popular culture icon". It would seem that links at the bottom of the page should be to articles specifically about Eva Peron, not articles that merely mention her in the context of a play about her -- along with several other women. Also, I think the link on the page needs to be renamed. I don't think the name "First Ladies" is descriptive enough. -- Andrew Parodi 10:01, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "First ladies" link

message: In the section Relationship with Juan Perón:
Eva has often been credited with organizing the rally of thousands that freed Juan Perón from prison on October 17, 1945. This version of events was popularized in the Andrew Lloyd Webber musical "Evita".
This does happen in the movie, but as far as I know it does not in either the London or the Broadway Productions.
In "A New Argentina" (the last number of Act I) Juan explains his worries
...
wolud be presidents are all about
I don't say they mean harm
but they'd each give an arm
to see us six feet underground
...
''
after this section, in the movie, Eva and Juan are shown returning to their room, she tries to convince him not to flee. But when they get there, he is arrested.
The musical, instead, goes staight on to "A new Argentina..."
I've made a minor change, it now reads,
Eva has often been credited with organizing the rally of thousands that freed Juan Perón from prison on October 17, 1945. This version of events was popularized in the movie of Andrew Lloyd Webbers musical "Evita".
It would be great if somebody would like to double check this and maybe reword it.
thanks.
:I think that's right...I've seen the movie, and he is arrested.  They once showed a selection from the musical on a recent show, "Broadway's Lost Treasures", where they played a video segment of the original Broadway cast during a performance (Patti Lupone, Bob Gunton, and Many Patinkin).  The selection was "A New Argentina", and Peron was not arrested in that. Michael 23:29, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Juan was not arrested in the musical Evita