Talk:Rosalind Franklin/Archive 3

message: *I have twice had to remove the King's college Logo from this article. This is not an article about the college, use the Logo on articles pertaining to the college if you want to use it. It does not belong on this page.
*I have removed links to BBC interviews with Watson and Crick, there are links to the Watson and Crick pages in the article, the correct place for these links is on the Crick and Watson pages.
*I have removed reference to a plaque at Kings and who is mentioned on it. If someone wants to make reference to Dr. Franklin's mention on the plaque then please do it in the Recognition section, and please make it relevant to Rosalind Franklin, this is not an article about King's College, or about the people there who were working on DNA, this is a biographical article, for example it is irrelevant who is not mentioned on the plaque, and it is only marginally relevant as to who else is mentioned.Alun 18:01, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Strange and irrelevant stuff creeping into article

message: There seems to be some belief by editors of this page that this is the correct repository for any miscellaneous material relating to DNA research at King's College during the 1950s. This is not an archive, nor is it a King's College page, nor is it a page about DNA research in the 1950s. I get the impression that there is some sort of move to reduce Rosalind Franklin to a bit-part player on her own biographical article. I would greatly appreciate it if someone would spend one tenth of the time devoted to her work at King's (2years and 2months) to some other part of her academic career (15 years in total). There is far too much emphasis on DNA work, and nothing about her virus work, a little about her time in Paris (which I added months ago). The talk page doesn't mention the 85% of her career she spent not working on DNA, and where she seems not to have been considered difficult to work with.Alun 18:01, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: My pathology is that of the pedant (look it up (I have even wikified the text to make it easier for you), you see I can be patronising as well!!!). I like to be accurate and specific. It was I who changed the picture of Franklin at your request.Alun 12:06, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Biographical article

message: OK SO I SHOULD KNOW THIS ALREADY, BUT AM I STILL MISSING SOMETHING? IS A "WIKI" ENCYCLOPEDIA ENTRY REALLY JUST A POTTED VERSION OF EXISTING BIOGRAPHIES OR THE SUBJECT'S OWN AUTOBIOGRAPHY? IN THE CASE OF ROSALIND FRANKLIN, IN THE ABSENCE OF HER AUTOBIOGRAPHY AND FOLLOWING BRENDA MADDOX'S RECENT BIOGRAPHY - IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT CAN BE SAID ABOUT HER, THAT HAS NOT ALREADY BEEN SAID?
I WOULD HATE TO BE A BIOGRAPHER, ESPECIALLY OF A LEADING SCIENTIFIC FIGURE, AS THERE WILL ALWAYS BE SOMEONE OUT THERE WHO KNOWS BETTER! DOES YOUR BIOGRAPHY HAVE TO REFLECT EVERYTHING THAT IS ALREADY IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN OR DO YOU TRY TO 'DIG UP' SOMETHING NEW OR DIFFERENT? "WIKI" BIOGRAPHIES ARE NOT ORIGINAL RESEARCH OF COURSE, BUT SHOULD THEY REFLECT EXISTING KNOWLEDGE OF THE SUBJECT? IF SO WHY THE DEBATE OVER 'FRANKLIN' FACTS ALREADY IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN?
LYNTON STRACHEY (HE OF "EMINENT VICTORIANS") SAID QUOTE: "IT IS NOT (THE BIOGRAPHER'S) BUSINESS TO BE COMPLIMENTARY, IT IS HIS BUSINESS TO LAY BARE THE FACTS OF THE CASE, AS HE UNDERSTANDS THEM".. "IF THE BIOGRAPHER IS WISE, HE WILL ADOPT A SUBTLER APPROACH. HE WILL ATTACK HIS SUBJECT IN UNEXPECTED PLACES; HE WILL FALL UPON THE FLANK, OR THE REAR; HE WILL SHOOT A SUDDEN, REVEALING SEARCHLIGHT INTO OBSCURE RECESSES, HITHERTO UNDIVINED. HE WILL ROW OUT OVER THAT GREAT OCEAN OF MATERIAL, AND LOWER DOWN INTO IT, HERE AND THERE, A LITTLE BUCKET, WHICH WILL BRING UP TO THE LIGHT OF DAY, SOME CHARACTERISTIC SPECIMEN, FROM THOSE FAR DEPTHS, TO BE EXAMINED WITH GREAT CURIOUSITY." Should this apply equally to 'Wiki' biographies? (What are all these arguments over Franklin really about, Alun/John?)
195.92.168.164 15:48, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  '''WHAT IS A "WIKI" BIOGRAPHY REALLY SUPPOSED TO ACHIEVE PLEASE?''' 

message: This is a discussion page about the Rosalind Franklin article. The purpose of this page is to discuss the article. This is not a newsgroup or a chatroom. If you want to have a general chat about Rosalind Franklin and any interesting articles about her then I suggest you find a more appropriate forum. If you want to make specific comments about the article, then please make them. This section seems not to make any comment about the article at all, and I am at a loss as to the reason for it's inclusion here.
I urge all editors of this page to read this guideline:
Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines
with particular reference to these points:
:Talk pages are not for general chatter; please keep discussions on talk pages on the topic of how to improve the associated article.
:Talk pages are also not strictly a forum to argue different points of view about controversial issues. They are a forum to discuss how different points of view should be included in the article so that the end result is neutral. Partisan debates do not align with the mission of Wikipedia, and get in the way of the job of writing an encyclopedia.
:For issues which have a verifiably correct and relatively undisputed answer, please do feel free to use the talk pages to facilitate fact checking (which sometimes includes resolving disputes over factual accuracy).
Alun 13:20, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: This is not a Chatroom

message: User:Wobble: most users who come to the Franklin page will do so because of Franklin's participation in the dicovery of the structure of DNA. It makes sense to have a statement above the table of contents saying that Franklin is most known for her work on DNA. You are not doing a service for wikipedia users by pretending that information about Franklin's work on DNA is "irrelevant". Maybe you should continue your efforts to describe the rest of Franklin's life while leaving description of her role in the discovery of DNA to others. If you continue to remove material that you personally have no interest in, which happens to be the material that most other people are interested in, then you are just going to start a revert war. --JWSchmidt 13:48, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  what is "irrelevant" to User:Wobble 

message: Here's the intro as it was originally:
Rosalind Elsie Franklin (25 July 1920 - 16 April 1958) was a British physical chemist and crystallographer who made very important contributions to the understanding of the fine structures of coal and graphite, DNA and viruses.
I have emphasised DNA for those of you who failed to take note of it (selective reading? possibly akin to selective hearing?) and so needlessly started making groundless and easily refutable accusations.
This new sentence:
Franklin is most noted for her contributions to the discovery of the structure of the DNA double helix.
Is relevant and concise.
It is this that is irrelevant
Her personal contribution to the overall determination of the structure of DNA was recognised by the co-award of the 1962 Nobel Prize for Physiology or Medicine to her colleague Maurice Wilkins of the King's College London team (under Sir John Randall), together with James Watson and Francis Crick of the Cavendish Laboratory, Cambridge (under Sir Lawrence Bragg); both teams were funded by the Medical Research Council.
This is too long winded for an introduction and contains far too much irrelevant detail. This sort of detail belongs in the main body of the article. Even then it is relates to events which occurred after Dr Franklin's death, and so should be included in the Recognition section.Alun 20:56, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [[User:Wobble|My]] refutation