Talk:Silver Brumby

message: Cream is a layman's term for the color of a pale palomino. Pale palominos can have white winter coats, and cream coats in summer. They never achieve the golden color often attributed to palominos.
Having been a pony breeder, I have seen this occur first hand often enough. The palominos I have seen/bred were born with pale skin and blue eyes. Their skin darkens, and their eyes turn brown as they age. They never achieved a rich, golden color, remaining cream throughout their lives.
Nonetheless, that doesn't mean Thowra and his mother were pure palomino. In the story it is said Thowra has a "Dun colored filly, almost golden." The dun gene is not related to the palomino/dilute gene. It is possible that, in the story, a buckskin has been incorrectly called a dun, as one variation of the dun looks quite similar to a buckskin. It is also possible Thowra carried both dilute and dun genes.
What one has to remember is that when these stories were written, the study of genetics was not as advanced, and indeed Elyne Mitchell didn't hold fast to the principles anyway. "Brumbies of the Night" which was written in 1996, when more genetic information was available, features red-eyed albinos. The existence of such horses is anecdotal at best. Geneticists state that such a coloration simply does not exist in horses. Some reading on the matter: http://www.whitehorseproductions.com/white.html  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Otherunicorn (talk • contribs) 02:27, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cream is palomino 

message: The original cover art shows Thowra and indeed all the 'silver' brumbies as greys not palominos. Original Cover Art The assumption of palomino, erroneously stated in this article, is a late addition from the 1970s. There is no suggestion of these horses being palominos in the text.
There is a misunderstanding about the nature of grey horses by the contributors. The grey colouring is caused by progressive silvering of the coloured hairs of the coat. 'Greys' start life any base colour depending on other colour genes present and it does not affect the skin or eye colour. Thowra's skin is described as black.  Their adult hair coat is white, dappled, or white intermingled with hairs of other colours.  White hairs begin to appear at or shortly after birth and become progressively lighter as the horse ages.
Cremellos have pink skin, Thowra is described as having dark skin so he cannot be cremello.Horse Genetics by author Glynis Scott
GavinCorder (talk) 19:12, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  originally grey not palomino 

message: It's genetically impossible for him to be a cremello, since his sire is a chestnut and his dam is a palomino.  The only two color options out of that are palomino or chestnut.    Even if his dam was a cremello, the only possible options are palomino and chestnut.  A cremello has two copies of cream (CrCr) and two copies of chestnut (ee).  A palomino has one cream (cr Cr) and two of chestnut (ee).  A chestnut is just ee.  A palomino can pass on the cream 50% of the time, (when bred to a chestnut) which will lead to either palomino or chestnut.  A cremello will pass cream on 100% of the time, and when bred to a chestnut will always produce palomino.  It is impossible for a cremello to produce a cremello when bred to a chestnut.
See for more clarification: http://www.ultimatehorsesite.com/colors/cream.html http://www.whitehorseproductions.com/ecg_basics2.html
Whomever wrote : Although it seems impossible for Thowra to be a cremello because his sire is a chestnut and his dam is a palomino, cremellos can be produced by crossing a palomino with sorrel, a bright chesnut. Indeed Yarraman is a bright chestnut stallion as in the first book it states 'in a real fight that might prove to be an advantage over the bright chestnut.' (which I reverted) is completely incorrect.  To be cremello, you need 2 copies of cream.  A chestnut has no cream.  Palomino has 1 copy.  It's genetically impossible for a cremello to be produced from a palomino to chestnut breeding.
In my opinion, Thowra is an extremely light palomino, as they can come almost as light as a cremello (but with the darker skin and eyes.)
Narmowen (talk) 02:12, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Thowra cannot be a cremello

message: Thowra's dam is cream, not palomino. It says so in the book, and very frequently so ('On this night, Bel Bel, the cream brumby mare...' 'he kept thinking of what Bel Bel would say to such a foolhardy expedition as this - and yet he knew she would understand. She was cream herself and could appreciate how lovely...') Also, from reading 'The Ultimate Encyclopedia of Horse Breeds and Horse Care' (by Judith Draper, Hermes House 2002,2004) page 156 deals with the palomino colouring, and supports the fact that sorrels can be produced by crossing two palomino genes (25% chance). Now, crossing two palominos also produces a cream (25% chance), so therefore Yarraman, possibly carrying 2 palomino genes, Bel Bel being cream, Thowra may be a cremello. 
Even if Bel Bel is palomino (the book does not say so) the palomino genes crossed with Yarraman's will be able to produce a cremello.  Thowra (talk) 07:01, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Bel Bel is Cream