Talk:Swedish Americans

message: The addition of George W. Bush to the list by Swedenman was not entirely out of the blue. See this,this and this – I do not know how reliable the "Swedish Colonial Society" is. And another thing, we do not need another List of Swedish Americans, so I have removed the one on this page. --Ezeu 23:07, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Surprise! Assumed vandalism based on non-inclusion in Category:Swedish-Americans. Nonetheless, I agree with your ultimate action. //Jugander 00:30, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: George W. Bush

message: Andover is a place in Wiltshire, UK.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.167.176.121 (talk • contribs) 4 April 2006
:There are many Andovers. See the Andover disambiguation page. --Ezeu 02:21, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Andover?

message: I propose merging this article with the stub Swedish emigration to North America, which I've just started adding content to. Swedish emigration to North America is going to need a rename in any case, since Canada doesn't come into it: it's purely about emigration to the US, and that is also the type of materian that I'm adding to it. There's a lot of such material out there, mostly academic and some of it even in English. I've ordered a couple of books. Any thoughts, objections? Snow 13:02, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, bad idea. Then we will have Norwegian American, Danish American, Icelandic American, but no longer any Swedish American. Wiki users should be able to search for a well-established concept and have a focused, relevant article on the subject pop up, without having to plow through an entire article of related stuff. Merging the mentioned articles into a Nordic emigration to North America article would also be a bad idea. My preference is that Swedish emigration to North America stays a self-sufficient article that does not have to use the two articles Swedish American and Swedish Canadian for its content but adds a deeper dimension by expanding on the general concept, for example by showing the common denominators, such as the conditions in Sweden that led to the major waves of emigration, etc, etc. There is a lot of ground to cover. Swedish emigration to North America can easily be an umbrella article without actually merging the articles Swedish American and Swedish Canadian into one mega article. Pia 20:12, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Pia L has a good point. The migration process is one thing, and the community they built in the USA is a different topic, with different themes, famous people, sources, etc. For example, the migration was small after 1900, but the community in its 2nd and 3rd and later generations became even more complex. Rjensen 23:48, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposing merge

message: The photograph is showing a pair of children wearing traditional Laponian clothes. I have some questions about the photo; Are Laponians really ethinc Swedes? This article is about an ethnic group, not citizenship. Is the photograph really representative for the Swedish American people? How do we know that the children on the photograph really are from Swedish Lapland and not Finnish, Norwegian or Russian? Aaker 20:21, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The image illustrates immigrants arriving from Scandinavia at Ellis Island Immigration Station, where most Swedes came through according to the article. It was not meant to illustrate some sort of ethnicity, just the wave of immigration from Sweden (although the photographer seems to have been inclined to categorize them as Swedish immigrants at the time - perhaps based on their citizenship. It was chosen for upload from the NY Public Library archives based on the library's categorization and filing of it under "Swedish immigration"). You can exchange the image if you want to, or move it down, make it smaller and have another image that shows something you think represents more "ethnically pure Swedishness" then, as the main picture. No problems. :) Best, Pia 05:57, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that is a good solution! Aaker 10:56, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The photograph

message: For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all  infoboxes. Comments may be left on the Ethnic groups talk page. Ling.Nut 23:15, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "related groups" info removed from infobox

message: Please see the deletion review discussion here. Badagnani 17:17, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Deletion review discussion

message: Please see the deletion review discussion here. Badagnani 18:36, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Deletion review discussion

message: To Whom It May Concern;
I have a simple question pertaining to your history of Swedish Americans. In paragraph two, you mention the different religions of the Swedes / Swedish Americans, but I did not see any mention of the Swedish Baptists.
My Great-Grandfather (Erik Wingren) came to Chicago in 1880 per the request of the Swedish Baptist Church / Ministry in Chicago. My Great-Grandfather formed the first class at the Betal Seminary in Stockholm in 1866, along with Anders W. Lindblom, Lars J. Larsson and Per Johannes E. Palmquist.* My Great-Grandfather practiced his religion in southern Sweden until 1880.
Plus if you check "History of the Swedes in Illinois" by E. Olson & M. Engberg, published in Chicago, Illinois in 1908, you will find that there were quite a few Swedish Baptists in the Chicago / Illinois area along with New York and other cities on the east coast.
I would appreciate a reply to this inquiry if possible. Was it in error or just left out do to the fact that the Baptist were a forbidden religion in Sweden?
Thank you - W. P. Gager
* "Betelseminariets Elever 1866", pages 34 & 35, circa: unknown
--Wpgager (talk) 19:31, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Swedish Americans

message: The very first line in this article states, 'Swedish Americans are Americans of Swedish descent'. So, please tell me how Greta Gustafsson, born and raised in Stockholm, Sweden, fits into this cathegory? While I will agree that she was a famous actress in films made in Hollywood, that doesn't really make her an Swedish American. Explain this, or remove the image.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.230.42.20 (talk) 23:32, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: In the "hyphenated American" sense that "Swedish-American" has traditionally been used in the US, an adult Swede who emigrated to a non-Swedish community in the US would not be considered a "Swedish-American."  Garbo didn't come to the US speaking little or no English, and settle in a largely Swedish community in Minnesota, Kansas or the Dakotas.  She came as an English-speaking adult who had no significant contact with Swedish-American communities.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.152.57.175 (talk) 09:08, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Greta Garbo!?

message: A simple look at his page informs one that he is not Swedish at all - that is a misconception. As such, I'm removing his picture. / 16:33, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Walter Johnson

message: You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Ethnic_groups#Infobox_Images_for_Ethnic_Groups. Bulldog123 09:47, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposal to ban user-created montages from Infoboxes

message: An image used in this article, , has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests January 2012 
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thread_title: File:Greta Garbo in Meyers Blitz-Lexikon 1932.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: Why is Swedish Americans identified ethnically in this article? 
The amount of Swedish Americans (Americans of Swedish ancestry/descent) in the US are based on the different ancestry censuses from the U.S Census Bureau. Ancestry and ethnicity is not the same thing. Ethnicity is a cultural group, ancestry is where a persons family camed from. The census source that the article uses speaks of ancestry, not ethnicity. Swedes (ethnic) that emigrated to the U.S in 19th-century and early 20th-century are since long ago assimilated into the American culture (and are therefore are Americans today, in an ethnic sense). Assimilation is the process when an ethnic group abandons (over generations, not over a night)their language, culture and identity. Americans with Swedish ancestry are assimilated (that's why we say that they have Swedish ancestry and that they are Americans and not Swedes). There is (as mentioned in the article) only a few small towns with a Swedish cultural life. So how can Americans with Swedish ancestry then form an ethnic group? Most Americans with Swedish ancestry doesn't live in these small towns and they also have ancestry from other ethnic groups. An ethnic group is not based on ancestry, it is based on the present identity. If Americans with Swedish ancestry is an ethnic group, then every American belongs to many differents ethnicities(ethnic groups are not made up by people of different ancestries). That doesn't reflect most Americans cultural life and identity. Most Americans (expect for foregin-born) probably identify only as American on the question on nationality and ethnicity, but as Swedish American on the question of ancesrty. Therefore I think that it is more appropriate to call Swedish Americans for an ancestry group and that Swedish Canadian and Norweigan American (as examples) should be called "related ancestry groups, instead of "related ethnic groups". I think this article and similar articles misuse that terms ancestry and ethnicity and creates a confusion on the meaning of the words.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.141.131.22 (talk) 16:38, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Swedish American Ethnicity? 

message: It is necessary for Wikipedia to substantiate the use of a word such as "especially" in the lede of this article. Who says that only "descendants of about 1.2 million immigrants from Sweden during 1885–1915" are particularly known as Swedish Americans? I am reinstating my citation request and asking that it not be removed again without comments here first, and consensus on the use of that word. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 11:17, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The usual terminology refers to Swedish Americans as the descendents of people from Sweden--People most of Whose ancestors came from Sweden. That leaves only a marginal role for people identified with other ethnic groups who intermarried with Swedes.  Millions of people have less than majority Swedish ancestry and historically have not identified closely with the Swedish community. That is how the reliable sources handle it. Rjensen (talk) 11:48, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Why are you discussing "other ethnic groups who intermarried" which is totally irrelevant to this discussion? This discussion is about years 1885–1915, not about other nationalities. Read the sentence we're discussing - please! --SergeWoodzing (talk) 18:59, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Just exactly what is your complaint? Are you asking a question for the purpose of getting information, or is it merely a rhetorical challenge?  Rjensen (talk) 22:36, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  Unable to comprehend the relevance my opponent's arguments or questions, leaving me with only an assumption to go by, I am rewording the sentence now in a manner that I assume will be acceptable to one and all, with no mention still of any intermarriage. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 15:38, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: "Especially" descendants only of early immigrants?

message: Pole Raising and Speech Making: Modalities of Swedish American Summer Celebration by Jennifer Eastman Attebery, 2015, Utah State University Press. "Documents how immigrants in the Rocky Mountain West combined Scandinavian seasonal celebrations with local civic celebrations of July 4 and Mormons' Pioneer Day from 1880 to 1917." per Chronicle book listJodi.a.schneider (talk) 13:35, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  New book that may be relevant to the article 

message: I am removing the allegation that a Swedish writer is a "historian". It's misleading. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 14:11, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Removing "historian"

message: I am reinstating the link to a slum area in St. Paul, Minnesota, which a new text addition about the bad reputation of Swedish immigrants is all about. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 14:11, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going to remove it as the articles are talking about the general demographics of the United States. // Liftarn (talk) 14:46, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Linking to slum mentioned

message: Wouldn't it be far-fetched to suggest that Hilmer Emmanuel Salomonsson was not a Swede but a Jew? Looks like one to me. Also, there was an image with the Lapp children in the past, now removed, could be a comparable case.--Adûnâi (talk) 14:27, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm fairly sure Salomonsson is not a Jewish surname in Sweden, despite suggesting bearers are the sons of Solomon. Also, for the avoidance of doubt, would you care to elaborate on what Jewish people look like? Any stereotypical descriptions I'm aware of seem to be the opposite of the person in that photo. EditorInTheRye (talk) 22:57, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

text: Even if he were Jewish, the fact that he immigrated from Sweden to the United States would still make him a Swedish American.--Khajidha (talk) 14:22, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  A photo of a Jew illustrating this article? 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Any reason why Isle Royale is colored differently than the rest of Keweenaw County? I don't see any other instances where counties are subdivided, plus there aren't any permanent residents of Isle Royale anyway. Phizzy 02:20, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Map

message: Under the heading "Preserving Swedish cultural heritage (1940–present)" this sentence is very confusing: "However H. Arnold Barton have[sic] theorised[sic] that many Swedish American customs (folk dress, dances, and smörgåsbord) portrayed as rooted in Sweden are in fact modern elite customs invented in the US and promoted by social leaders to foster ethnic identity."
To me it is inconceivable, quite unbelievable, that a Sweden expert like Barton could have written anything that can be interpreted like that. Obviously, Barton must have known that Swedish "folk dress, dances, and smörgåsbord" were not invented in the United States, by an "elite" or by anyone else. The sentence is so glaringly wrong that I feel it should be removed, unless the citation quotes what Barton actually wrote about that. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 00:06, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: That does seem absurd, I am not opposed to removal. --TylerBurden (talk) 00:16, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Also in favour of removing it as nonsensical. Obviously Swedish smörgåsbord and folk dresses were not invented in the US (neither by an elite nor by anyone else). Jeppiz (talk) 01:42, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Inconceivable interpretation

message: A link from grandfather to grandson has twice been removed, last here. The removing editor has complained about life years and surnames here in a way that is hard to understand (aside from the personal attacks). I will reinstate the relevant link unless someone can give us a better reason here not to do so. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 15:12, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I was under the impression that you thought that they were the same person (and even with the LOOSE relation, the single sentence on him isn't enough to link). Thebrakeman2 (talk) 15:54, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: You argued differently on your talk page, then when you realized you were wrong about their name you argued link and then also removed the evidencial sentence from the grandson's article (now sourced), once you'd read it all. Let's not let this be about you or me here and hope someone not involved will chime in. I believe the link from grandfather to grandson is especially appropriate in the context where it was used in this article. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 16:21, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Either way, I fixed it in a way where your not making it seem like he has a page, by making it clear that Stanley is his grandson in the caption. Thebrakeman2 (talk) 16:35, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Good. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 11:00, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Caption reversal

message: It is not disputed that Swedish Americans are Americans who have Swedish descent. However, we have two opposing opinions about what that means, neither of which is supported by any source citation as yet:
# A Swedish American is by definition an American who has at least one Swedish parent (opinion supported by one user so far.)
# A Swedish American is an American who descends from one Swedish grandparent or less or who identifies with Swedish Americans without having any substantial Swedish descent (opinion supported one user plus two more called in by that user to  agree).
Until we get more input by uninvolved users the question has not been resolved. Perhaps an RfC will be needed. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 13:32, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: ″opinion supported one user plus two more called in by that user to agree″ That is a dubious WP:ASPERSION, they were notified because they are all recent editors of the article. If you are not capable of handling a content dispute without derailing it with these accusations, I will raise the issue on WP:AN/I and we can see who is in the wrong from a policy standpoint. If they had all agreed with you, would you be making the same accusation? Your presentation here is highly biased, a source was presented and you rejected it because it doesn't fit your own preference (which you have provided absolutely no references to back up). TylerBurden (talk) 05:23, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: The source presented does not answer the question about descent. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 08:25, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: It clearly refers to descendants as Swedish Americans if you would actually read it, for example: ″Swedish America today overwhelmingly consists of descendants of Swedish immigrants, many of whom are by now in the third generation and beyond.″ If that is what reliable sources say, then that is what Wikipedia says, because that's what the encyclopedia is based upon, not our personal opinions. TylerBurden (talk) 08:43, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

text: There is a quite a difference between "Swedish America" and "Swedish Americans". Thus, that source is not relevant. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 08:33, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: That's beyond pedantic, where exactly is the source for your POV? You have been asked numerous times and have yet to provide anything at all. TylerBurden (talk) 10:04, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: A source for the need of clarification of the phrase "as well as their descendants"? Seems unreasonable. Seems better that we try and get NPOV consensus as to whether or not an American with descent from only one Swedish grandparent or less should  be able to be called a Swedish American. Mathematically. I am surprised that anyone would object to such clarification. The problem here is a wish to be able to define just about anyone as a Swedish American without mathematics & normal genealogy. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 15:51, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Absolutely, per WP:NOR, your definition should be supported by a reliable source. Content being referenced is arguably the most important Wikipedia policy, so I don't think "consensus" could even be achieved for something that is completely unreferenced. If you can find some kind of reference for your definition, I'd more than welcome it, but until you do, you're going against basic policy. At this point I honestly don't see how this can be settled without an RfC. TylerBurden (talk) 17:33, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: There is nothing in the article that can be described as my definition or anyone else's. There is a request for clarification. A request for clarification should not be removed until clarification has been achieved. It is important to this article that "descent" be clarified. Without reliable sources, clarification can be achieved by consensus. Right now, there are only two users left in this discussion. We need to wait for more input. No one is denying that Swedish America consists of descendants of Swedish immigrants. That does not mean, however, that an American with only one Swedish grandparent or great-grandparent by definition is a Swedish American, whether or not he/she calls h-self that. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 14:05, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion status quo 25 October