Talk:Alphabet/Archive 1

message: Is it just me, or has some moron changed all the 6s into bs? They also seem to have done away with capital Bs, and there is no link to Z at the bottom of the page, instead another A... Gee Eight 19:12 UTC 16 March 2006
:What a mess! 6 changed into b and z into a. And some Michael Jackson ref. I had to revert quite a bit back. It undid the edit by YurikBot, that I cannot judge, as well. −Woodstone 21:08, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism March 2006

message: I would find it hard to support the statement that the letters of the alphabet represent (or approximate) phonemes. In English, due to its historical development, this is hardly the case. There are, supposedly, at least seven phonemes represented by "gh." In Italian, this statement has more validity.
The language ends up being very far from phonetic, but it's evidently organized on such principles.  The letters generally have one or two primary sounds associated with them, so that when we see a new word we can usually guess about how it sounds, or transcribe foreign words into English.  There are exceptions a lot of the time, but they are still the exceptions rather than the rule, I'd say.  Maybe the best way to sum it up is: English is written with the Roman alphabet. ;)
PS - a quick search finds /g/ as in ghost, /gh/ as in doghouse, /f/ as in enough, /p/ as in hiccough, /w/ as in plough, /h/ as in Callaghan, and if you accept them, /k/ as in lough, /θ/ as in Keighley.  Also it can show up as part of /ng/ or /ngh/ or as //, as in light.  Tolkien used it to represent /γ/, but he was clearly being ridiculous.
*Not ridiculous at all. This is how Swahili and many other transcription systems for languages with that sound (like most Arabic transliterations for example) use the digraph "gh", so that k:g::kh:gh, i.e. "k" has the same relation to "g" (phonation) as "kh" (/x/) has to "gh". In fact, I don't believe there is any other frequently-used way to write that phoneme in the Latin alphabet (excluding IPA). Livajo 16:21, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Phonemes 

message: Can hiragana and katakana be called an alphabet?  There are some usages such as the kyo as in Tokyo which is used like an alphabet instead of syllable.
: No, the kana are definitely syllabaries. They just happen to have some digraphs.  — Gwalla | Talk 20:16, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Can hiragana and katakana be called an alphabet

message: Is there a 'family tree' of alphabets available somewhere? I'd like to see a graph of which alphabet is derived from which. -- Kimiko 22:10, 11 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Family tree' of alphabets

message: Sorry, that was my mistake. It's a thin space. I was probably still holding the shift key down when I hit the space bar—my keyboard layout has that character for shift+space—and didn't notice the mistake in preview.  — Gwalla | Talk 19:43, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  &amp;#8202; 

message: An automated Wikipedia link suggester has some possible wiki link suggestions for the Alphabet article:
* Can link for languages: ...eir writing systems, and writing systems have been borrowed for languages they were not designed for, so the degree to which letters ... (link to section)
* Can link one-to-one correspondence: ... within a single language.  Languages may fail to achieve a one-to-one correspondence between letters and sounds in any of several ways:... (link to section)
* Can link Two-letter combinations: ... a combination of letters rather than just a single letter. Two-letter combinations are called digraphs and three-let... (link to section)
* Can link phonetic alphabet: ...ges of the world can be written by a rather small universal phonetic alphabet. A standard for this is the [[International Phonetic Alphab... (link to section)
* Can link Egyptian hieroglyphs: ...emitic workers within Egyptian society.  The inventors took Egyptian hieroglyphs and applied new names and phonetic sounds to the images, in... (link to section)
* Can link middle Persian: ...[Jordan]]. The Pahlavi alphabet was adapted for writing middle Persian, and is the ancestor of the Armenian alphabet, which is... (link to section)
* Can link northern Asia: ...rd century]] AD, and was adapted to create the alphabets of northern Asia, including the Sogdian, [[Manichean al... (link to section)
* Can link vowel sound: ...ch letter represents a consonant and vowel combination; the vowel sound is modified using diacritic marks above the letters.... (link to section)
* Can link classical Latin: ...e Latin alphabets generally drop some of the letters of the classical Latin alphabet or add additional letters.... (link to section)
* Can link Latin alphabet: ...Latin alphabet or add additional letters.  The most popular Latin alphabet in use today is the 26-letter alphabet normally used for [[... (link to section)
Notes: The article text has not been changed in any way; Some of these suggestions may be wrong, some may be right.
Feedback: I like it, I hate it, Please don't link to — LinkBot 11:31, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: The Pahlavi alphabet was NOT the ancestor of the Armenian alphabet. --Cbdorsett 14:44, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggest 10 possible wiki links for [[Alphabet]]. 

message: I am proposing changes to this page. The beginning days Alphabet originated with Phoenicians and Greeks, then in the History section it says it originated with Ancient Egyptian Hieroglyphics.
There is contradiction there.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ameninhat (talk • contribs) 20:18, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Kindly stop promoting your self-published book here. --NeilN talk to me 20:53, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

text: There's no contradiction. Egyptian hieroglyphics weren't an alphabet or otherwise essentially phonemic writing system. The article says that the first fully phonemic script (loosely speaking, alphabet) was the Phoenician one. Largoplazo (talk) 21:05, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

text: Read more carefully. "...the Phoenician alphabet is considered to be the first alphabet." "Based on letter appearances and names, it is believed to be based on Egyptian hieroglyphs." --NeilN talk to me 21:08, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradiction 

message: I thought the alphabet was invented by the Sumerians. 165.120.146.80 (talk) 01:13, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Per Cuneiform script, the Sumerian cuneiform system was logophonetic. It had phonemic symbols but was largely logographic. (It has over 1,000 distinct signs, which would indicate a ridiculously huge phonemic inventory if the symbols were all phonemic.) The article says that Proto-Canaanite/Phoenician is the first fully phonemic script [emphasis on the word "fully" mine], hence the first alphabet. There is no contradiction. (Japanese script likewise has phonemic symbols, but it also has thousands of ideographic symbols, so the Japanese script is thus also not an alphabet.) Largoplazo (talk) 14:26, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sumerian 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Alphabet. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070906105503/https://www.spanishpronto.com/spanishpronto/spanishalphabet.html to http://www.spanishpronto.com/spanishpronto/spanishalphabet.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 20:25, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Alphabet. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160128234751/http://www.jaars.org/museum/alphabet/index.htm to http://www.jaars.org/museum/alphabet/index.htm
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 19:40, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: An article on the alphabet should include a list of the letters, in order. There is none. 72.228.150.222 (talk) 16:05, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: This article is on alphabets in general across all written languages. I believe the information you seek is at the article English alphabet. —KuyaBriBriTalk 16:09, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 4 June 2018 

message: Add another line at the top to say "For alphabet INC. see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphabet_Inc. Pigyface25 (talk) 15:11, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Largoplazo (talk) 18:24, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 24 February 2020 

message: The section Types has a figure labelled Predominant national and selected regional or minority scripts with a map that has a minor, "easily fixable" error.
The map shows Canadian syllabics only in Nunavut. In fact, Nunavik and most of northern Québec including Eeyou Istchee, Nitassinan and the Naskapi country of St'aschinuw. This script is also used across much of Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan and even Alberta, BC and the Northwest Territories in Nishnawbe Aski Nation, other Cree and Anishinaabe countries and in parts of Denendeh. Even if that figure only considers national/regional "official" uses, it should definitely include the Northwest Territories as multiple syllabic-using languages are official languages of the territory.
206.125.95.37 (talk) 00:12, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Map under Types 

message: The first paragraph has one beginning parenthesis ( and two ending parentheses ) Please remove the second ), the one that appears at the end of the paragraph. 208.95.49.53 (talk) 20:28, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: P,TO 19104  (talk) (contribs)  23:09, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 27 July 2020 

message: The following text in the first sentence of the second paragraph of the introduction should be changed to that which follows it below:
* Proto-Canaanite script
* Proto-Canaanite script
This will replace the erroneous link to Proto-Canaanite—effectively a disambiguation page—with a corrected link to the intended target, Proto-Sinaitic script, without affecting the text displayed.
Thank you. 104.246.217.137 (talk) 14:59, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: P,TO 19104  (talk) (contribs)  00:02, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 26 July 2020 

message: 36.37.207.90 (talk) 03:08, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 2 May 2021 

message: See this. I'm sure many people think wrongly of, say a Chinese alphabet. comp.arch (talk) 11:16, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: The second sentence of the article already distinguishes alphabets from other writing systems. We don't need to keep reminding readers throughout the article, "This is only about alphabets and not non-alphabets." Largoplazo (talk) 12:23, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: What is confusing is that Wikipedia itself calls some non-alphabets alphabets. What counts as an alphabet is inconsistent. E.g. the Tibetan abugida is lemmatized as Tibetan alphabet; Japanese alphabet redirects to Japanese script (syllabaries+logograms); Chinese alphabet is a separate page that explains that Hanzi logograms cannot be called an alphabet. --92.214.181.75 (talk) 14:21, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

text: That and the first sentence should have a citation since it disagrees with some definitions of alphabet (e.g. in marriam-webster) which make no such distinction. I can't add the tag because the page is protected. — Preceding unsigned comment added by  ‎ 68.59.52.84 (talk) 12:07, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mention non-alphabets [in the lead]? 

message: An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect :Abeceda and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 March 4#Abeceda until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  Faster than Thunder (talk | contributions | block) 20:40, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Abeceda" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: Why this page is full with lies and is protected ? so nobody cant fix and remove the lies ? The people who did this page have to come out with thier faces, names and home addresses, so they can receive pay back for the criminal actions they did on this page! Is not fear to put lies, block them from edit and wait to brain wash the people ! The content of this page is not true with the reality so must be removed from wikipedia ! Aladin (talk) 22:08, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have any specific objections or are you just shitposting? In the future, please comment constructively, or else there's no point. Largoplazo (talk) 22:23, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lies 

message: There is a line with a source that says the Khmer alphabet is the longest with over 70 letters but in a later section there are entire paragraphs about which script can be considered the longest and Khmer isn’t named. This is clearly inconsistent. 80.112.162.82 (talk) 21:36, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not only that, but first it says Hindi has the most with 58, then it says Thai has 59. To some extent, it depends on how one counts "letters", though. I think that the count for Khmer counts the vowel marks made on all sides of the consonants, the "dependent vowels", as separate letters, while I believe the corresponding marks are just considered diacritical marks when it comes to Hindi, and aren't counted. I'm interested to see what others who know more about this have to say. Largoplazo (talk) 22:47, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alphabet with most letters 

message: The Ugaritic writing system is a cuneiform abjad (consonantal alphabet) used from around either the fifteenth century BCE[1] or 1300 BCE[2] for Ugaritic, an extinct Northwest Semitic language, and discovered in Ugarit (modern Ras Al Shamra), Syria, in 1928. It has 30 letters. Other languages (particularly Hurrian) were occasionally written in the Ugaritic script in the area around Ugarit, although not elsewhere. and considered the oldest known alphabet 185.95.160.72 (talk) 23:55, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:04, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 22 August 2022 

message: The current lede, rendered as "An alphabet is a standardized set of basic written symbols or graphemes (called letters) that represent the phonemes of certain spoken languages", departs considerably from the cited source material. Problems include:
* The interpolation of "standardized"
* The interpolation of "basic"
* The omission of "script"
* The equation of graphemes and letters whereas, per Pulgram, "Each alphabet has a certain fixed number of distinctively shaped classes of symbols, usually called letters, which are graphemes" (properly construed to mean graphemes ⊃ letters, not letters = graphemes).
A better representation might be, "An alphabet is a standardized set script of basic written symbols or graphemes (called letters) graphemes or letters that represent the phonemes of certain spoken languages." Kent Dominic·(talk) 02:14, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  The lede is quite flawed