Talk:Curtiss Motorcycles

message: OddBike (talk) 19:34, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

message: At the company website I see no evidence that the company is doing business as BSA, only as CMC. An article in the NYT confirms the Confederate name. What was the basis for the move? Do they have a new holding company arrangement? That shouldn't govern the article name. --Dhartung | Talk 05:30, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Company name 

message: :Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~
*Support as nom. --Dhartung | Talk 20:21, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *I'm unclear what your objection is (or if there is one). The request was to move an article to the well-known name, with the lesser-known name a redirect to this article as a result of the move. Thus, one article. I don't find that the holding company has any need for a separate article or even much of a separate treatment; as with most holding companies it seems to exist largely for tax or investment purposes (the reorganized company has a major investor from the Middle East). --Dhartung | Talk 02:46, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd like to see this as two articles if and when the companies grow.  I have modified the article to build a stronger section for the holding company so that it can be split to its own article at some point in time. The investors in the holding company should be inclued in that section.  Vegaswikian 05:05, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Alrighty then. I believe you're overthinking this, though! --Dhartung | Talk 05:29, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yea, people have that complaint about me ;-) Vegaswikian 20:32, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: I'm skeptical that Confederate qualifies as production motorcycle company; they make every bike by hand, to order as far as I can tell. The only evidence that they have even sold one single bike is this quote by actor Ryan Reynolds in Mens Fitness.  He thinks they make 50 bikes a year.  Any citations showing production numbers?
In general I think handmade, one-off bikes should go under the Motorcycle builders category and only mass producers should be listed under 'manufacturers'.--Dbratland (talk) 22:29, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Evidence of actual production? 

message: "Plant staffing is expected to increase from twelve to as many as thirteen employees."  Not only is there no notation for this statement, but it doesn't even make sense.  From 12 "to as many as" 13 implies there's a chance that partial people will be hired.  That sounds like a worker safety issue.  Alyeska2112  —Preceding undated comment added 00:35, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Odd sentence 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion 

message: Seagull123  Φ  added in section and subsection headers for this section, and removed repeated  templates at 12:28, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested edit on 24 May 2020 

message: Information to be added or removed: "Confederate Motors, Inc" no longer exists.  The company is operating as "Confederate Motorcycles LLC" and is now a Private company. Curtiss Motorcycles Inc is still a publicly owned company. 
Explanation of issue: Confederate Motors Inc changed its name to Curtiss Motorcycles Inc and Confederate Motorcycles LLC spun off from the parent company forming its own company. Ernest Lee and Ernest Lee Capital LLC then purchased Confederate Motorcycles LLC. 
References supporting change: https://www.thedrive.com/news/19943/confederate-motorcycles-lives-on-under-new-ownership
Earnestly (talk) 21:20, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request #1 

message: Information to be added or removed: Ernest Lee and Ernest Lee Capital LLC own Confederate Motorcycles LLC.   
Explanation of issue: Confederate Motors Inc sold Confederate Motorcycles LLC to Ernest Lee and Ernest Lee Capital LLC. 
References supporting change: https://www.thedrive.com/news/19943/confederate-motorcycles-lives-on-under-new-ownership
Earnestly (talk) 21:20, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request #2 

message: Information to be added or removed: Key People within the company are Ernest Lee, Jay Etheridge, Jason Reddick, Landers Sevier, Andrew Reuther, Dave Hargreaves 
Explanation of issue: Ernest Lee owns Confederate Motorcycles LLC.  Jay Etheridge was the CFO of Curtiss Motorcycles Inc. and moved over to Confederate Motorcycles in 2020.  Jason Reddick was the Master Technician at Curtiss Motorcycles and moved over to Confederate Motorcycles in 2020.  Landers Sevier has worked for Confederate Motorcycles since the spin-off in 2018.  Andrew Reuther and Dave Hargreaves previously worked for Confederate Motors but now work for Confederate Motorcycles LLC. 
References supporting change: https://www.confederate.com/media
Earnestly (talk) 21:20, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request #3 

message: Information to be added or removed: Products should be the as follows: Confederate Hellcat, Hellcat Speedster, F-117 Fighter, P-51 Combat Fighter, FA-13 Combat Bomber and Confederate Wraith.  Legacy products are as follows: P-120 Fighter, B-120 Wraith, Hellcat Speedster, X-132 Hellcat, F-124 Hellcat, F-113 Hellcat, and the Original Confederate Hellcat.  These model names should stick to the convention such as the "P-51 Combat Fighter" (not G2 P51 Combat Fighter)
Explanation of issue: The new models are not currently listed and the legacy models are not properly identified as such. 
References supporting change: https://blog.dupontregistry.com/motorcycles/confederate-motorcycle-announces-three-new-motorcycle-models/
Earnestly (talk) 21:20, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request #4 

message: Information to be added or removed: Products should be the as follows: The website for the company is "www.confederate.com"
Explanation of issue: Confederate Motors Inc changed its name to Curtiss Motorcycles Inc and Confederate Motorcycles LLC spun off from the parent company forming its own company. 
References supporting change: https://www.thedrive.com/news/19943/confederate-motorcycles-lives-on-under-new-ownership
Earnestly (talk) 21:20, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request #5 

message: Information to be added or removed: In April 2018, Confederate announced an all new Confederate G3 P-51 Combat Fighter and that it was designing a Hellcat and a Wraith for future manufacture and distribution worldwide.
Explanation of issue: This is significant news for the company that was released in 2018. 
References supporting change: https://www.thedrive.com/news/19943/confederate-motorcycles-lives-on-under-new-ownership
Earnestly (talk) 21:20, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request #6 

message: Information to be added or removed: In May 2018, Confederate launched a factory buyback, consignment and restoration plan for pre-owned Confederate motorcycles and began its current practice of giving Confederate owners a trade-in allowance equal to what they had paid for their Confederate Motorcycle toward the purchase of a new model.
Explanation of issue: This is news for the company that was released in 2019.  This is remarkable because no other company offers such a buyback program. 
References supporting change: https://www.roadracingworld.com/news/confederate-motorcycles-to-continue/ Confederate Motorcycles To Continue Manufacturing High-End Motorcycles
Earnestly (talk) 21:20, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request #7 

message: Information to be added or removed: In April of 2020, Confederate announced plans for the new Hellcat, Hellcat Speedster and Wraith.[6] The Hellcat and Speedster are the first motorcycles produced by the company that are based upon the Harley Davidson FXDR frame and 117 cubic inch Milwaukee Eight engine.
Explanation of issue: This is news for the company that was released in 2020.  This is remarkable because this is the first time that Confederate Motorcycles has produced 6 distinct models at the same time. 
References supporting change: https://riders.drivemag.com/news/confederate-motorcycles-are-working-on-new-bikes
Earnestly (talk) 21:20, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request #8 

message: Information to be added or removed: The 2020 Confederate Hellcat and Hellcat Speedster will be the first Confederate Motorcycles homologated for worldwide delivery with ABS Automatic Braking Systems. 
Explanation of issue:  This is remarkable because this is the first time that Confederate Motorcycles has produced two models that are Euro4/5 compliant with ABS Automatic Braking Systems. 
References supporting change: https://blog.dupontregistry.com/motorcycles/confederate-motorcycle-announces-three-new-motorcycle-models/ AND https://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles/motorcycle-news/confederate-motorcycles-touted-to-release-a-new-hellcat-in-2020-ar187974.html
Earnestly (talk) 21:20, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request #9 

message: Information to be added or removed: The article states that "In 2018, the Warhawk model based on there P51 Fighter will be the last and final gas-powered motorcycle, only 35 bikes will be produced."  The Article should state "In 2018, the Curtiss Warhawk model based on the Confederate P-51 Combat Fighter will be the last and final gas-powered motorcycle by Curtiss Motorcycles."
Explanation of issue: This is remarkable because Curtiss Motorcycles Inc. is only producing electric motorcycles and Confederate Motorcycles LLC is only producing gas powered motorcycles; one of which it manufactures for Curtiss. 
References supporting change: https://riders.drivemag.com/news/confederate-motorcycles-are-working-on-new-bikes
Earnestly (talk) 21:20, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request #10 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: uncontested move.  DrKay (talk) 11:59, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Confederate Motors →  – This article should be moved to Curtiss Motorcycles because the company has changed names, and the Confederate IP and branding has been sold off and revived. Curtiss Motorcycles currently exists as a company entirely separate from the Confederate Motorcycles that is in operation today. https://www.forbes.com/sites/billroberson/2019/07/31/curtiss-motorcycle-unveils-three-radical-electric-bike-designs-ceo-says-he-wants-to-challenge-harley-davidsons-livewire/ https://www.thedrive.com/news/19943/confederate-motorcycles-lives-on-under-new-ownership 
Rightooth (talk) 15:16, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

text: The discussion above is closed.  Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
*  the request above was to move to Curtiss Motorcycles, not Curtiss Motors as you moved it.  I presume that was an error.  Note that  there is a disambiguation page at the title which will need to be moved first. SpinningSpark 16:58, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 25 May 2020 

message: Check out 
*https://www.confederatemotorcycles.com (Birmingham, Alabama)
*https://www.curtissmotorcycles.com (Leeds, Alabama)
Though the two companies have not explained themselves well, it appears that there is a surviving 'Confederate' product line that is still being sold from the Birmingham location. The owner of the original Confederate company, Matthew Chambers, seems to have sold the old gas-powered line of business to a man named Ernest Lee. There is a publicly-traded Curtiss Motorcycles company whose Bloomberg page is at this link, with the president said to be H. Matthew Chambers. The new bearer of the 'Confederate' name appears to be the spinoff, and intends to solely make gas-powered motorcycles. The Curtiss company has announced an electric motorcycle, the Curtiss 1. You get most of this from web searches rather than the companies themselves. This Forbes article has the most complete story:
 –EdJohnston (talk) 17:04, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: The lead captures this briefly stating   It can't be linked to until someone creates a new page specific to Confederate Motorcycles LLC, if it meets GNG.  There are some foundations above in #Requested edit on 24 May 2020 if someone were to create a new page, there are some independent items in there that can be used. Here is my understanding of the companies: -2pou (talk) 18:51, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

text: The original company was called Confederate Motors, not Confederate Motorcycles. SpinningSpark 22:26, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Good catch.  Thanks! Updated it along with new info below.Wow, interesting timing of this.  I just checked the Confederate site, and it looks like they're going for a new name themselves, changing to Confederate Motorcycles.  When I saw this, I was curious and checked some search site caches.  It looks like the change went live on the site sometime today before 18:52 GMT when comparing the Bing cache (dated 6/15/2020, but no timestamp, still using "Confederate"--I archived it, but the Bing cache appears to be blacklisted) to the Google cache (includes timestamp).  I updated the chart above just to be accurate.  Total speculation on my part and WP:OR, but I'm guessing the recent changes in the world responding to the George Floyd protests drove this rename. The real point here, though is that maybe the updated name will help clarify whatever splitting might happen to this article in the future. -2pou (talk) 22:38, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks like it's settled at Combat Motors, and officially announced. -2pou (talk) 16:04, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Two companies now