Talk:Subhas Chandra Bose/Archive 2

message: It should be mentioned that Subhash coined the term "Jai Hind", the ubiqutous patriotic chant in India. Wonder what collaborator theorist think abt THAT.
--ppm 19:00, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jai Hind 

message: LordGulliver wishes to have the category: :category:History of India added to SCB. There is a sub category :category: Indian freedom fighters under the History of India cat. meant for this. The HoI category is meant for time periods and individual locales' histories. =Nichalp «Talk»= 08:06, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
;In favour of the above:
;Not in favour:
*=Nichalp «Talk»= 08:14, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
* Sundar \talk \contribs 08:33, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
*  14:11, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Voting 

message: Hi, this is with reference to my rv of multiple edits by Nirav.Maurya & 129.237.189.68 to that of 134.130.240.109. I have specified the reasons below.
It is an undeniable fact that Mahatma Gandhi supported Pattabhi and viewed his defeat as defeat of Gandhi's principles. Nirav's deletion of these phrases is unwarranted. At the same time, it is not proper to say that Gandhiji ensured Bose's resignation by bringing pressure on him. Here, Nirav's deletion may make sense; however, a better way to view it is "Bose understood that congress is not the ideal vehicle for his views, given the extent of Gandhiji's influence on the congress philosophy." Nirav's statements about Bose's sycophantic supporters do not cut much ice; It is a large body of All India Congress Committee that elected the congress president and a few sycophantic supporters either side cannot really sway the result. Also, Nirav should give some reference with respect to Vithalbhai Patel's estate happenings. 129.237.189.68 edited most of these, by simply deleting them; It doesn't solve the problem - since the article is incomplete without Bose's endeavours at the Haripura and Tripuri sessions of the Congress, which mark an important change in the path of his life. Hence, I reverted these edits to an edit before Nirav.Maurya's first edit. However, some of the points raised by Nirav, such as Bose preferring any means (violent or non-violent) as long as ends are justified, need to be incorporated in the article.
I take justifiable pride in India's freedom struggle and am a great fan of both the Mahatma and SCB (probably more in favor of the former). However, despite personal biases, our primary job on wikipedia must be to maintain a NPOV, so I've reverted the edits. Since some of Nirav's points need incorporation in the article (though probably not in the same tone and tenor), i request others to join me in editing this article further. ---Gurubrahma 07:27, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prevent a new edit war 

message: One such claims that Bose actually died in Siberia, while in Soviet captivity.
i am refer at some information why support these conspirance theory,this appareing in Axis history forum "Japanese POW's in the USSR?":
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posted: 28 Mar 2004 19:25
The Soviets attacked Manchuria and Korea after the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Fighting did not stop in Korea until late september 1945. 
Some of those captured were reputedly nuclear scientists of Japan's project to build an atomic bomb in North Korea (F-Go Project). Others were involved with Unit 731 which pursued biological warfare methods. Me thinks the real reason why Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bombed was to force Japan's surrender before Stalin could capture these laboratories. 
Some of those captured in Manchuria may have been Indians fighting 
for Japan recruited by Indian nationalist Chandra s Bose. Bose was 
sent by Hitler on the U-180 to help with Japan's war effort against 
the British.
Japanese POW's in the USSR?
Simon Gunson
Member
If these comment poses any sustain,acase indicate the existance of some indians was captured in Manchukuo by Soviet Forces for conduct to siberian gulags? or more specifically between these  captured INA indians stayed the "Netanji" Chandra Subhas Bose?
if only one historical curiosity.
===Slight Alteration===
"was one of the two most prominent leaders of the Indian Independence Movement against the British Raj (the other being Gandhi)." Whatever you think of him, Nehru has to be mentioned here. I have altered this sentence accordingly. Sikandarji 17:18, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  About Soviet captivity conspirancy theory 

message: "was one of the two most prominent leaders of the Indian Independence Movement against the British Raj (the other being Gandhi)." Whatever you think of him, Nehru has to be mentioned here. I have altered this sentence accordingly. Sikandarji 17:18, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Slight Alteration

message: Should be Subhas and not Subhash. MarcAurel 05:21, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Spellings

message: "was one of the two most prominent leaders of the Indian Independence Movement against the British Raj (the other most prominent leader was Mahatma Gandhi)."
This sentence is completely tendentious, and I've had occasion to alter it before. I'm sorry to see that somebody has changed it back. I appreciate that Nehru was insufficiently violent and authoritarian in his beliefs to appeal to those who tend the immortal flame of Bose's memory, but the fact is that his role in the Indian Nationalist movement was actually more important than Bose's. He can't just be written out like this. Others might wish to push the claims of Vallabhai Patel, Lokmanya Tilak and Maulana Azad as being just as important as Bose as Nationalist leaders, but that at least is a matter for debate. This sentence should be changed either to:
"was one of the three most prominent leaders of the Indian Independence Movement against the British Raj (the others being Jawaharlal Nehru and Mahatma Gandhi)." or (perhaps better):
"was one of the most prominent leaders of the Indian Independence Movement against the British Raj" Sikandarji 10:21, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with you fully, and changed it as per the second option. I too had changed the opening previously, but it seems it has been removed. --Gurubrahma 10:35, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: An anonymous user has changed that sentence again. I think the page ought to be reverted.Sikandarji 22:13, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I don't believe it - someone has done it again. Clearly this one sentence means a lot to someone out there who is EXTREMELY Childish. Sign in and give your reasons if you want to make changes like this, otherwise they'll just be reverted. Sikandarji 00:52, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And again - as you can see User:130.132.248.61 (anonymous: what a surprise)! has now forced this pernicious non-NPOV on the page three times. I have reverted it twice but don't wish to invoke the three-revert rule. Can somebody else do it? Sikandarji 16:40, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Opening Sentence

message: The German officer in the photo with Bose is NOT, and does not remotely resemble Erwin Rommel.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by AuthorNeubius (talk • contribs) 03:31, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Incorrect Caption

message: How did more than half of the article disappear! The article on escape disappeared, him leading the Indian National Army, and much more have disappeared. May I know the reason why that happened. Dewan S. Ahsan 22:34, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Article

message: I corrected a bit of grammar and slightly reorganized the opening section so that is flows chronologically. All the original information is intact. --Daydreamer302000 11:55, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grammar 

message: Could somebody who speaks Bengali/Bangla please add a phonetic pronunciation of Subhas Chandra Bose's name? Particularly the last part - I've heard it mangled to everything between 'bows' and 'boozer'. Thanks! -- TinaSparkle 14:23, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation 

message: Virginia's Patrick Henry said "Give me Liberty or Give me Death" in the sense that he would rather die than live in a society filled with ludicrous acts (by British)
Netaji's "Give me blood and I'll give you Freedom". The Blood here means sacrifice. He's saying that People must Sacrifice their nation for Freedom.--Milki 21:50, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "must sacrifice their nation for Freedom" ? I think it is more like sacrifice for their nation's freedom, Jeroje 06:49, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Patrick Henry's Quote is not similar to Netaji's 

message: At present, those comments in "Polical views" that indicate Bose was fascist have been referenced, primarily because of the fact a ready-made web reference was available! No book reference, mentioning the exact page number, have been added as of now.
Now, coming to the other aspect, that is the pragmatism of Bose's decision to ally with Axis power. I have not been able to find out good web-reference, except  This. There are many books references. However, this point of view should be referenced ASAP. And also, that Congress' decision not to utilise the crucial momment of WW2 to pressurise British was not also of much benefit - as evidenced by the fact the British did not consult Congress before going to the war, and Congress resigned from the ministry as a lame protest - should be discussed. This discussion could point out the necessity of Bose's decision.
However, any discusssion/ comment have to be properly referenced, preferably from respectable sources like university pages, encyclopedias, or, best, accepted views of the historians. So it is a request to the wikipedians not to make own comments in the article, this is not a place of original research. Please, find out references and help make a really nice and balanced article. Thanks,--Dwaipayanc 09:39, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know whether Professor Sen is a British Imperialist, but perhaps he's suffering from a form of false consciousness  - Nirad Chaudhuri also refers to Boses's "pronounced fascist leanings" Thy Hand Great Anarch (London) 1987 p32. This is not a view confined to "British Imperialists", it is one that deserves more serious consideration. I think I made it pretty clear that whilst I find Bose's actions during the war reprehensible and counter-productive, I'm not entirely comfortable with him being described as a 'fascist' either, although you seem somehow to have twisted that into a personal attack. The article shows that there are numerous dissenting views on Boses's role during the war, and his evolving political beliefs. I added both the quotations in which he condemns Nazism and Japanese aggression in China and that in which he calls for an "authoritarian system" in post-independence India whilst rejecting democracy, so I'm sad to see that my attempts at even-handedness on the page itself appear to have gone unappreciated. Please, leave the preaching out of this. To describe the Waffen-SS as "there to frighten the children" but then claim the moral high ground as one of that virtuous and self-selecting group "Those of us with more respect for the victims of fascism" is stretching things a bit. If you think India and the world would have been better off had Bose, the INA and the Japanese won their struggle against the Indian Army you're entitled to your opinion. I maintain that it is insulting simply to describe the latter as "collaborators" and denigrate their contribution to defeating Fascism (and I do know what the term means). Whether Bihar in particular has ever been truly democratic is questionable, but I somehow doubt if even Bose could have turned it into Singapore. The fact is that he isn't tainted with the many disappointments and failures of Independence because he died at the right time. That's why he's still revered as some sort of Messiah figure. From my own study of his writings and career I see no reason to suppose that he would have been any more successful than any other Indian political leader in preventing Partition or alleviating India's poverty in the aftermath of Independence: an Independence which was taken, not granted. Sikandarji 22:58, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The most cursory glance at Chaudhuri's writings would show that he had no great love for the British in India, (he distinguishes carefully between British domestic political and literary culture and that of the Empire). However, it is usual for people simply to read the deliberately provocative dedication to The Autobiography of an Unknown Indian and fail to progress any further, and I am not surprised to find that Wikipedia repeats the lazy myth that he was an Imperialist or an apologist for Imperialism. I suggest you read his books, rather than relying on hearsay. At no stage have I claimed that the British Empire was free from sin (what polity is)? and the Bengal famine of 1943 is a particularly dark stain, although I think you'd be hard-pressed to argue that it was deliberate. All I am suggesting is that the British Empire was better than the regimes it was fighting during WWII, with which Bose saw fit to ally himself, and that is all which is at issue here. To describe all those who served in the Indian Amry at that time as "cannon-fodder" is infantilising (it was a volunteer army, after all) and does them a grave injustice. Sikandarji 19:55, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Political views status

message: I just wanted to add, that since I have started to work on this article, I have come to sympathise with Bose and his views a good deal more than I did to begin with (and this despite him being a Cambridge man......). I still think he was wrong, and misguided, in the choices he made, but I accept that much of that knowledge comes with hindsight, as we have come to understand better the horrors of both the Nazi and Japanese regimes in this period. I would be very interested to garner further opinions from Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and Sri Lankans about British India's role in the Second World War. By 1945 2.5 million Indians were serving in the British Indian Army against the Axis, and overall during the war about 4 million volunteered. They played a crucial role in defeating the Axis in the Middle East, in North Africa (at El Alamein, for instance) and of course in the defeat of the Japanese and the INA at Kohima and Imphal, and the subsequent reconquest of Burma. This contribution has only recently come to be fully acknowledged in Britain, and is viewed with pride and gratitude. How is India's role seen in defeating the Axis seen in India and Pakistan today? All opinions welcome.
Sikandarji 00:10, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I can say only one thing. They are hardly remembered among the common men. In fact, that many Indians fought in the allied power remains almost unmentioned in our text books, at least in school levels. I am not aware of other parts of the subcontinent, but in the part I live (West Bengal, India) I do not see any commemoration of the soldiers. May be one of the reasons is the traditionally low Bengali presence in the Indian armies. Would be intersting to hear the scenario in Punjab.--Dwaipayan (talk) 13:55, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Am a bit late to add points here but here is the crux. Members of Bose's INA were recognized as freedom fighters by the Govt. of India and hence got the same benefits (pensions, land, travel etc.) as Congress freedom fighters. This was clearly not the case for the British Indian Army personnel. In Indian textbooks - Bose is revered as hero. Yes, Indians serving in the British Army did become icons in India. Field Marshall Maneckshaw is an example - but he become a hero in India when he served the Indian Army not the British Indian Army. TheBlueKnight (talk) 19:51, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: The Second World War

message: This is something that has really been swept under the carpet, 
and must be given a line or two. Japanese behaviour in the Andamans brings forth very searching questions about the modus operandi of the I.N.A. - and to think Bose wanted the Japanese army in New Delhi! Let's face it, how could he call himself a potential liberator if this kind of thing was being done by his "friends" and under their very noses. I think this link:  will get quickly deleted, as the article seems profoundly biased and is probably well guarded by a gang of Bengal Tigers who have as much time for other points of view as Bose himself did.
  
-----------------
It makes me laugh how Indian historians love to believe that the tiny isolated uprisings by the Indian armed forces in 1946, which resulted in almost no British casualties, chased the British out of India. I have even seen this portrayed as fact in Indian school books. The mutinies did not even have the support of Congress or the Muslim League, who even supported their suppression! They were nothing at all and the type of thing that the British had been actively dealing with for 200 years. There was a far bigger mutiny during WWI, Bose’s INA, consisting of former soldiers, was a kind of mutiny, and let's not even talk about the trouble in 1857 which was ten thousand times bigger, there was even a sizable military mutiny in the 1820's. The trouble in 1946 was a trifling affair.
The new British Socialist government(quite rightly)had already made up its mind to get out, something India is loathed to give credit for, as kindly British acquiescence is something they just can't admit - despite a truck load of evidence. This is why they said Gandhi was not a decisive factor.
*I think I deleted that link not because I know or intend to preserve a bias, but rather because it's to a personal website and part of a POV bit in the article. --Improv 13:55, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not the original contributor by the way - I think you'll find that numerous atrocities were committed by the Japanese in the Andamans (and everywhere else in South-East Asia): this is widely known and accepted. However, I agree the original link was to what looked like an unreliable and very POV site, hence this statement was essentially unreferenced. In itself though I don't think it is unacceptably POV - if the atrocities happened, they should be referred to here. If I can find a good reference I may reinstate the passage. Sikandarji 17:18, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  JAPANESE ATTROCITIES IN THE ANDAMAN & NICOBAR ISLANDS 

message: There are parts of this article which are probabbly unintentionally ever so slightly biased. I think it is a bit of a diservice and insult to the hundreds of thousands of men of all religions who served in the Indian Army between 1939 and 1945 in both Europe and Asia who fought against nations who were totalitarian and fundementally wrong in nature. In that case it might be neccessary to adjust the article to restore the actual effect of this curious figure in history.--Pudduh 14:12, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's more than slightly biased. Someone above called it a "poorly-written hagiography". I wouldn't go that far, but terms like "freedom-fighter" and "martyr" have no place in an encyclopaedia.89.242.152.119 (talk) 17:16, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Slight POV problem. 

message: On Death of Subhas Chandra Bose and Mukherjee Commission, it says that the government rejected the commissions outcome, but I am not 100% clear on whether the official date of death is still 1945.  This is important because copyright law is based on the official date of death. John Vandenberg 11:06, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The official date of death is 18 August 1945... The commission refuted this, but the government rejected the findings of the commission... - Sreejith Kumar 03:28, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  official date of death 

message: Read Wikipedia:Avoid peacock terms and then try to justify the inclusion of this phrase. JMcC 09:55, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Highly respected?

message: "In fact, the plan to liquidate Bose has few parallels..."
Nice, but sounds more like personal opinion than fact (and would require a negative proof). As such, it belongs in quotation marks or left out altogether. 88.217.76.192 (talk) 08:33, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Assassination attempts 

message: Note:  Project Banner with Orissa workgroup parameters was added to this article talk page because the article falls under :Category:Orissa or its subcategories. Should you feel this addition is inappropriate , please undo my changes and update/remove the relavent categories to the article -- Amartyabag  TALK2ME 11:01, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[WP:INDIA]] Banner/Orissa Addition 

message: A major portion of this article is not seen now. Is it due to vandalism? If yes, someone please restore it. -- Sreejith Kumar (talk) 19:25, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism? 

message: The image :File:INA Parade.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here.  In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page.  Please check
:* That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
:* That this article is linked to from the image description page.
There is a need for cultural awakening again in India recalling the ideals of Netaji to establish a ex-Soviet kind of state and abolish the poverty, dysfunctional polity that India is!!!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.50.37.194 (talk) 19:39, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Image copyright problem with File:INA Parade.jpg

message: The changes by user 59.92.144.209 at 12:39, 15 March 2009,  needs review, I think the content is not suitable under [WP:NOTDIRECTORY]. The content can be restructured as a section with proper formating and retained in this page or moved to a suitable page. nihar (talk) 10:22, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Changes by user 59.92.144.209  

message: The lead section of this article is too long. It needs to be summarised in fewer words and the actual contents moved to the sections. Unspokentruth (talk) 17:25, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead section too long 

message: Regards everybody. I have removed the sentence that Subhash Chandra's B'day is National Holiday. In fact, it is not even a Restricted Holiday. -Thanks. -Hemant wikikosh (talk) 05:56, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  That was wrong information