Talk:Hippolyte Bouchard

message: *The article's present text, taken directly from , gives permission in its copyright notice that: 
:"Everyone is permitted to copy and distribute verbatim copies of this license document, but changing it is not allowed. 
Does this imply the article as it stands, cannot be revised or incorporated into a more detailed article ? MadMax 21:57, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think an article can be described as a "license document", and that is an exact quote of the beggining of the GFDL license text. --Argentino (talk/cont.) 14:17, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Copyright notice

message: I have NEVER in my life someone calling Bouchard a pirate. As you can see here  in a note at the end, the author excused himself for callin him pirate in an older version and reffered a letter from an argentine history professor "Captain Bouchard was a corsair from the then very young free state of the "United Provinces of Rio de la Plata River," (direct ancestor of the present Argentine Republic). He was encharted from the government to have a legal "corsair license" against any property of the Spanish Empire all over the world.
As you may see reading a very interesting book about those Bouchard's trips "El Corsario del Plata" by Daniel E. Cichero, Bouchard marked with a red cross each door of an American's house to be avoided during any confiscation, protecting in that way interests of Americans.
So, he attacked and confiscated only properties of Spanish administration, an enemy in those times. Then, as you may know, both countries were involved in a (very cruel) independence war."
But maybe he war wrong, then we see here , that he is said to be corsair by an article of the oldest and most readed newspaper in Argentina.
But, nah, they are all wrong, or lying, it cant be true, only a filthy pirate can conquer in 16 hours what USA couldn't for years. But then we have this page, part of the official web of the Argentine Marine (it is probably right). It is the biography of one of Bouchard's assistants, Tomás Espora, who became General Commander of the Marine and there Bouchard is also titled "corsair". If anyone has a more reputable and important source that says that Bouchard was a pirate then may Cite sources -Argentino 18:41, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Pirate

message: Perhaps the WP article Privateer says it best:
To the target country, a privateer looked very much like a pirate, and indeed this was the intention. The only difference was that pirates were considered outlaws by all nations, while privateers had immunity from the country that commissioned them. Privateers were sometimes known as "gentleman pirates".
Hippolyte de Bouchard examines both of these perspectives. There are many sources that describe Bouchard and his forces as pirates (virtually all taking the Spanish point of view), some even questioning his true motives, not the least of which include:
, , and  the latter of which states:
In 1818, the mission was visited by California's only pirate, Bouchard. Equipped with two sailing ships, he attacked missions on the coast in the name of a South American province which was engaged in revolt against Spain. His connection with the revolutionists was more fiction than fact, but he found it provided a convenient excuse for his attack on the settlements.
Also :
In 1818, the pirate Bouchard attacked the California coast, supposedly in the name of a South American province that was rebelling against Spain. In truth, he used the revolution as an excuse to attack the California settlements.
:
Hipolito Bouchard, a pirate from Argentina, found the cove at Dana Point a safe fefuge [sic]. In 1818, he docked his pirate fleet in the cove while his sailors were raiding and setting fire to parts of nearby Mission San Juan Capistrano.
and finally :
…the pirate Hippolyte de Bouchard. (A French citizen, Bouchard was technically sailing under letters of marque from the insurgent government of Argentina and was thus legally attacking its enemy, the Spanish empire). Nevertheless, to the citizens of this poor but loyal province, he was a pirate and remains so to this day in story and song and in the large painting near the Law Library in the Santa Barbara County Courthouse corridor.
--Lordkinbote 20:19, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: We're going to have to "agree to disagree" on this one. Even the article you cite from La Nación alludes to the fact that "...in the zones bordering Monterey he [Bouchard] is seen like a pirate...", which is what the main article here states. And I regard the California Mission Studies Association (here's yet another reference, written by Dr. Sasha Honig, Professor Emeritus of History at Bakersfield College  and Mission San Juan Capistrano as "important" organizations in this context.--Lordkinbote 20:16, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Unfortunately, the issue here is not regarding what is fair or unfair, it has to do with historical accuracy and NPOV. As some of the cited text illustrates, there exist at least a few opinions that some of Bouchard's actions may not have been consistent with the authority granted him by the Argentinian government. In the end, regardless of his true motives, he was "...most often regarded as a pirate" (by his adversaries, at any rate — he is frequently referred to as "California's only pirate") and that is as much a part of his legacy as his perceived good deeds are.--Lordkinbote 00:24, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: A matter of perspective?

message: This article is missing a last act! It abruptly ends with his December 1818 raids on California. It has absolutely no information on what happened to him after this, even though he is said to have lived until 1843. Obviously, something is missing here.
Because of this missing section, and because citations are almost entirely absent, I've changed the article rating from B-class to Start-class. Peter G Werner 23:32, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Later life??? 

message: I have volunteered to be the Good Article reviewer for the nomination placed by Argentini an and have left introductary remarks on his talk page. If he and I agree to this proceeding, I'll be leaving my comments here. I will employ a three-tier scheme of remarks: : you are past the gate. : I think you've got some work to get to FA, but it suffices for the overall "decent, satisfactory" criteria of GA. : You've got a little work to do for GA. Unless someone suggests otherwise, I'll be basing my remarks on Revision 142724031 as edited by Argentini an at 15:07, 5 July 2007. I expect to make my first pass comments here on 15 July 2007. Take care. — Gosgood 01:15, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA Review, commencing 12 July 2007 

message: The name "de Bouchard" would normally indicate an aristocratic French family. that doesn't seem to be the case here, since the article names the father as "André Louis Bouchard". Did Hippolyte Bouchard adopt the aristocratic form himself? Was it given to him posthumously as an honorific? Was it just a spelling error? 
The only source cited that uses the "de Bouchard" spelling is a brief, badly-written article on the website "The California State Military Museum". The article doesn't link to any other sources. I don't think it qualifies as a "reliable source".
The origin of the name change should be noted and sourced in the article. If that change can't be sourced, I propose that the article be renamed "Hippolyte Bouchard". What say the editors? WCCasey (talk) 01:43, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Page moved, name corrected and website discrepancies noted. WCCasey (talk) 18:51, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should Bouchard's name include "de"? 

message: A recent edit of the opening sentence changed "French and Argentine" to French Argentine. That raises the question: did Bouchard become an Argentine citizen? The article doesn't say. I'll tag it for now. WCCasey (talk) 20:41, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Did Bouchard become an Argentine citizen? 

message: Substituted at 21:44, 26 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

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thread_title:  External links modified