Talk:Sacrifice

message: What about Self-Sacrifice? 
The essence of this is it involvers some personal cost, the extent of the cost being proportional to the extent of the self-sacrifice. It can be anything of value to the bearer including a forbearance of some pleasure, desire, or need upto sacrificing everything including ones life. 
Indeed, there is an argument that unless a sacrifice comes at some significant cost, it is no sacrifice at all, or at the most a symbolic sacrifice.
This aspect is particularly important in theological considerations of Sacrifice to God.
A reason for Self-Sacrifice (to God) is as penance for sin.
:Yes, good point.  The lead doesn't even mention that kind of sacrifice, like a personal commitment, exposing oneself to risk, being brave or even just reacting in the moment.  The article lacks wider context. An example is at the moment people are making great sacrifices for the pandemic, through isolation, lockdowns, bans, abstinences, etc.  How can we encompass that kind of sacrifice into this article? - Shiftchange (talk) 13:57, 31 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: This article seems quite specific to me, and deals with material sacrifice directed toward God and not toward one's neighbor. This might be seen as a companion article to Propitiation which covers more the theology, rather than the practice, of sacrifice to God(s). Perhaps the Terminology section should clarify where matters like generosity and self-sacrifice directed toward our neighbor are discussed. Jzsj (talk) 16:05, 31 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Self-Sacrifice/Social or Cultural Sacrifice 

message: I deleted this text:
* (None of these mention the Biblical reasons for sacrifices. Will be added.)
from the list of explanations of the theology of sacrifice.  It's been there for quite some time.  There are Biblical explanations already in the list, although they may well be incomplete.  Some potential Biblical explanations for sacrifice (atonement, asceticism) are also there, but stated as being of general application, as IMNPHO they should be.  -- Smerdis of Tlön 19:08, 14 Apr 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Other matters  

message: There is an interesting account of a recent sacrifice of six bulls in the latest edition [Autumn 2005] of Sacred Fire magazine, in an article entitled "Divine Nourishment." Carptrash 14:08, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  recent sacrifice 

message: There are many accounts in folklore and arhelogical evidence that christians immured people in churches when new church was built and for protection from plague, I believe that it was form of human secriface and should mentioned, but I`m affraid that this could prove to be highly controversial, comments ? -- Xil - talk 20:20, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Check whether they did this because of a particular interpretation of their scripture or not. If they didn’t have any religious justification for what they were doing, it should not be included in the “Sacrifice in Christianity” part (maybe somewhere else in the article after making sure that it is a fact). But if they religiously justified it, then you can quote it from a reliable source and add it to the “Sacrifice in Christianity” part Aminz 23:20, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: For that matter, do you have a reference for the immuring itself?  This was Celtic pagan practice -- deplored by the (pagan) Romans -- but we would need a reference that proves that Christians did it.  Goldfritha 00:59, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Christian human sacrifice

message: Indian Poors secrifice their children for Prosperity.
http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=79072
Parents sacrificing sons to be prosperous
Press Trust of India
Posted online: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 at 1643 hours IST
Baripada (Orissa), January 3: Lured by promises of prosperity, a couple has allegedly sacrificed their two sons in Orissa's northern district of Mayurbahanj
Padmalochan Gan and his wife Tuni had been advised by a 'tantric' to sacrifice their sons Harish (9) and Dipu (7) and hold a puja to set themselves on the path to prosperity, police said on Wednesday. 
The couple sacrificed their sons at their home at Tilapada village, about 55 km from here, after observing some rituals in the presence of the tantrik, identified as Jagannath Tudu, police said. 
Though the incident had occurred about a week ago it came to light only this morning, when the foul smell emanating from the decomposed bodies alerted the local people. 
They found the bodies of the two boys and informed the police, which have arrested the couple. 
The tantrik is absconding. 
The couple also has a two-month-old daughter, who had been spared, police said.
vkvora 04:10, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Indian Poors [[sacrifice]] their children for Prosperity. 

message: The teachings of the Torah and Tanakh reveal Judaism's abhorrence of human sacrifices.  This is quite a gloss on human sacrifice in the Judaic tradition.  There is abhorrence, also ambivalence and contradiction.  It's there and is rather interesting. Hakluyt bean 03:52, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Judaism 

message: the last part of this portion of the article is pretty vague and unencyclopedic.  Every sentence has either "seems to be" or "apparently"  The note on the passion movie has a citation needed no, but it seems pretty unverifiable to me
The results of some research in the last several years has shown that the word ἀνάμνησις, "an-AHM-nay-sis", does not not mean to think about prior events but in the context means "memorial sacrifice".https://orthodoxchristiantheology.com/2017/11/25/is-the-eucharist-a-memorial-sacrifice-or-both/, "memorial sacrifice".LSJ  That ought to be included though I'm not sure how to work it in.
Another is the issue of different groups listed as seeing the Eucharist as a sacrifice aren't all operating with the same definition; in the Bible there are at least six different kinds of sacrifice ( burnt offering, grain offerings, peace offerings, purification offerings,  reconciliation offerings, thank offering),  All these were considered sacrifices, and the multiplicity of types and meanings is reflected in the definitions being use by different groups.  This should also be noted in the article.  Dismalscholar (talk) 21:42, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Christianity 

message: Self sacrifice is such a subjective notion that to list examples is to tilt the boat, any way you take it.  For example, the accidental circumstance that a suicide bomber dies in his own explosion does not exonerate him from the murder he commits.  Especially if he's waiting to go to paradise.  (No, not every suicide bomber is.)  --VKokielov (talk) 01:39, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Captain Lawrence Edward Grace "Titus" Oates (17 March 1880 – 16 March 1912)[1] was an English cavalry officer with the 6th (Inniskilling) Dragoons, and later an Antarctic explorer, who died during the Terra Nova Expedition. Oates, afflicted with gangrene and frostbite, walked from his tent into a blizzard. His death is seen as an act of self-sacrifice when, aware that his ill health was compromising his three companions' chances of survival, he chose certain death.[2]   — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.176.105.153 (talk) 08:42, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Examples of self-sacrifice" 

message: The section is unsourced, false, and sickening. I am removing most of the text under WP:V.Bakaman 18:48, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Hinduism

message: Where did the nonsense about the ancient Egyptians not practising sacrifice come from? I removed it and cited the Apis cult as a counter example.Lewisaa (talk) 17:40, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, it's actually rather doubtful whether that is sacrifice as such. The bull was allowed to live for 25 or so years, which is longer than the average bovine lifespan, so most would have simply died of natural causes. They were killed if they lived after that date which was determined as the limit of each incarnation, but they were not being sacrificed, since it was believed that the bull was the God, and that it needed to be released to be reincarnated. That's quite different from the conventional idea of sacrificing an animal as an offering to a God. Paul B (talk) 16:00, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Historical Polytheism

message: Both are mentioned in the lead, but their historical treatment in the main text is sketchy at best. Accordingly, the article as a whole is unbalanced. Ancient and Classical Greece and Rome, Celtic, Gallic, Germanic practice et al offer rich pickings here, as does the transition from pre-Christian to Christian era. As it stands, the promise made in the lede (sacrificium as "making sacred" - which is, surely, a reverential act and offering - whether of animal, vegetable or mineral - whose explication also remains undeveloped here) wanders off into a bit of a bloodfest. Excepting, of course, for the refreshing veg main-dish in the Hindu section... Perhaps the addition of a new header will spark a contribution or two. Haploidavey (talk) 00:45, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Bloodless sacrifice and dedication of objects

message: I removed the clear bias in the section on Ayn Rand which flat-out stated her beliefs to be "erroneous."  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.121.234.89 (talk) 01:44, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Ayn Rand? This section is completely superfluous. Should be deleted.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.161.210.145 (talk) 22:42, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree but only because of the generally observed community policy for AR stuffs and the current overall content. It's long since history at this point and yes stating that her view that "man is not a sacrificial animal" or whatever is erroneous would be inappropriate. This article isn't about the abstract concept of sacrifice or altruism, it's about ritual sacrifice, the actually historically occurring thing. 76.180.168.166 (talk) 03:43, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Ayn Rand

message: Why is there a list which looks like a cross between a disambig page and a see also section in the lead?  Seems a bit odd.  I might move it. Huw Powell (talk) 00:32, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Go for it. Haploidavey (talk) 00:42, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the encouragement, I went ahead and removed it. Huw Powell (talk) 01:22, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Seriously, any improvements at this, um, less-than-adequate article are very welcome. Haploidavey (talk) 01:25, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  odd list in lead 

message: Rajmaan (talk) 17:13, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Changed links to use Cite Book rather than raw Google Books URLs.  Hopefully should make these more useful if those links ever become stale.  Sorry to modify your post. Zell Faze (talk) 17:10, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sacrifice to the Banner in Ming dynasty China 

message: I wonder if sacrifice has a purpose to cause social and economic pressure and deprivation?  Having read the old testament, I see that the Israelites were instructed to sacrifice a huge amount of blood and non-blood offerings.  Given that the testament includes a census of the population it would be interesting to try and calculate the economic effect of this destruction of wealth.  I wonder if instructing a population to sacrifice and so destroy wealth is similar to the purpose of the war in George Orwells 1984.  Perhaps the purpose is to prevent prosperity and condemn the people to abject deprivation as part of some perverse holy strategy?194.176.105.139 (talk) 08:13, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is the purpose of sacrifice to cause social and economic pressure and deprivation? 

message: Substituted at 05:13, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: Just something to add to the multiple list of problems here. 
The material on Minoan Human sacrifice was added to the article in 2004 by an IP; see this diff. Unsurprisingly (given that this was 2004) it was uncited. Another IP added a citation in 2005,  after removing some of the material, presumably because the citation (a dead-linked Dartmouth edu. page) didn't support it. Today, an editor tagged the dead-linke so I tried an alternative route to the same page. A truncated-syntax search gave a Dartmouth edu. course reading list comprising four scholarly publications. Among them - and the only one accessible to me online - is a reputable specialist publication by Hughes, who seems (at least to me, after a rather cursory reading) to argue against most if not all the conclusions presented as fact in our article. 
Another thing - chunks of the section text appear uncredited in at least two online self-publications; one here from 2007, and another more recent here. Both are post 2004 so we've likely been copied, rather than vice versa; but maybe not. The earliest IP version strikes me as a wee bit bloggy. Haploidavey (talk) 23:26, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone more in the know than I has checked for copyvio, and found no outrages. The citation matter remains, tho. Haploidavey (talk) 00:55, 25 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Definite citation and possible copyright problems in section

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*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20091001040035/http://www.javno.com:80/en-economy/sacrifices-needed-to-fix-auto-crisis_240289 to http://www.javno.com/en-economy/sacrifices-needed-to-fix-auto-crisis_240289
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Do people think it would make sense to have a section on things like fasts, where the worshiper gives up an activity or pleasure for religious reasons? Seems like a form of sacrifice to me (and is referred to that way)?IAmNitpicking (talk) 12:57, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sacrifice of activities? 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: not moved. Editors felt that this move could be revisited when and if there is an article covering "sacrifice" in a more general context, but for now religious sacrifice is the clear primary topic. (non-admin closure) WPscatter t/c 14:56, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Sacrifice →  or  – I brought up this articles name a while ago on the WikiProject Religion talk page and I felt it was time to try to do something about it.  ★Trekker (talk) 09:43, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 9 June 2023