Talk:Pascua Lama

message: It should be noted that the Atacama Desert and the mountains above it is literally the bleakest, least populated desert on earth.  There are places where no rainfall has ever been recorded in the 130 years that there has been a weather station.  In large areas there are no animals and no plants, not even desert weeds.  People came there with the discovery of nitrates and copper in the late 19th Century.  Other than the mining towns, there is one small town very high in the mountains, Putre, which has a few farms.
Chile has a good history with mining in the Atacama.  Chile has the highest standard of living in Latin America, the highest literacy rate, the highest average number of years of education, the longest life expectancy and so on.  It is the one country in Latin America that has a long and deeply rooted history of democracy (which is what made the Pinochet years especially shocking).  It is widely understood that in part the basis for Chile's wellbeing and democracy has been the revenues from the nitrate and copper mining in the Atacama.  Unlike Third World Countries, which Chile emphatically is not, the mineral wealth of the Atacama has largely benefitted the nation as a whole and not just a corrupt elite.
So the question of Pascua Lama comes down to numbers.  What will surely harm the livelihood of a few farmers, indigenous or not, will just as surely benefit the Chilean people as a whole, who number more than ten million.  
: Good points, albeit poor information. The CIA Factbook on Chile registers Chile's population as reaching an estimate of 16,454,143 (July 2008). It also mentions "widespread deforestation and mining threaten natural resources; air pollution from industrial and vehicle emissions; water pollution from raw sewage" as the country's main current environmental issues. As pointed out above, the project is all set, having gotten approval by fiscal authorities; Barrick has blissfully ignored environmentalists' genuine complaints, and the only factors that have actually delayed this monstruous project have been disputes between Chilean and Argentinian authorities over (in Spanish) tax issues and over who will get the bigger piece of the cake. As usual, big money, greed and politics (and politicians) are perfect partners, but Ecology is not, so it is being left out. The excuses are perfect and very convincing: "benefits to the region, and to the whole country", "growth and development", etc. But the consequences for the environment (also as usual) will probably be disastrous. As if anyone cared. We'll learn over time, only it's doubtful we still have enough time left before it's too late.  --AVM (talk) 23:17, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Anonymous, undated post: It all comes down to (monetary) numbers

message: I have uploaded an image obtained from http://www.barrick.com/Default.aspx?SectionID=70599b39-cc27-490f-b691-6c6af644deb2&LanguageId=1:
:Image:PlanViewPascuaLama.jpg
Barrick Gold Corporation needs to be asked for permission to use the image to illustrate this article. As of 12.22.2006, it is the most accurate portrayal of the proposed boundaries of the Pascua-Lama pits.
If they do not give permission, then we need to recreate a similar map using this as a guide. Earthsound 21:41, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image for illustration 

message: "To get to the minerals, it would be necessary to break, to destroy the glaciers - something never conceived of in the history of the world - and to make two huge holes, each as big as a whole mountain, one for extraction and one for the mine's rubbish tip. If the glaciers are destroyed, they will not just destroy the source of specially pure water, but they will permanently contaminate the two rivers running from glaciers so that they will never again be fit for human or animal consumption (because of the use of cyanide and sulphuric acid in the extraction process)."  
This segment is taken entirely from the chain letter that is currently circulating.  It breaks with the neutral POV of wikipedia, and comes across as sensationalist and poorly written.  I removed it from the main section and added a short section about the chain letter itself.  Shana  25 May 2006
First of all, according to Barrick and Chilean environmental authorities, the gold is NOT under any glaciers whatsoever. Barrick has been authorized to mine in the vicinity of three small ice fields, but as a condition of that approval, the ice fields (glaciers) must not be affected in any way. Likewise, Barrick has agreed to 400 conditions that regulate the environmental impacts of the mine, including a comphrehensive water quality monitoring program. The company had to commit to maintaining the baseline water quality and quantity in the surrounding areas. As for hurting the farmers, the 700 farmers of the Huasco Valley have actually passed a motion to support the mine, along with a group of 2,000 water users in the area. Mayors from four local municipalities have all thrown their support behind the project, and to date, Barrick has received 50,000 job applications for positions at the mine.
No rivers will be contaminated. There will be no operational discharges from the mine site, this is stipulated in the regulations governing the operation. In fact these regulations state the water must meet legal irrigation and drinking water standards at all times. Chilean authorities are confident in Barrick's ability to do this, as are the people of the region.'''
South Africa, Andre Brink
we have to be very carefull as to what we do to this planet, our home. we forget to often and to quicley that this planet respodes to what we do to it just as we respond when done to us, saying this, see it as a possibilaty that we are all one people objects air light ect. the outcome of such a desuster is catastrofic to say the least. it will be like removeing you own beauty phisicaly from you body, can you just emajine the hurt?....
:--"Be carefull wiz yor Inglish" (Gosh! Where did you learn it, in Mongolia?
Sou Portugês
Acho lamentável o que esytão a quer fazer, destruir um glaciar para exploração de Ouro, Mais vale matarem já os seus próprios filhos, porque é o que vãi fazer ás gerações vindouras.
Pedro Romão
Nao me importa. It is not exploration if it is known to be present in large quantities. I don't see how children or families for that matter are the same as digging up dirt. The facts are: this will produce jobs, this is not in Portugal, this is Chile so get out of their business. Furthermore the Earth is inanimate and doesn't care if we dig there or anywhere. There is no vegetation and it is an ice sheet, not a glacier. Have you ever seen northern Chile even? A permanent ice-cube is the equivalent to a glacier to them. The fact that it is pointed out at all proves the transparency of the Barrik. I grew up in Chile and I lived there for 15 years. The only outcries against this are from people terrified of large corporations due to Socialist propaganda. If anything: the hole will create a lake that will provide fresh water to the Huasco valley and beyond bringing new life to the hell pit that is northern Chile. Don't pay attention to people that dis your English :) keep at it and I'm sure you can succeed. For serious, I understood it fine which means you are on the right track :) Daniellis89 (talk) 01:01, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Chain Letter

message: http://www.hoaxbuster.com/hoaxliste/hoax_message.php?idArticle=45672
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Soline (talk • contribs) .
What is false?
The above URL at hoaxbuster.com does not not address the truth or falsity of information on this page. It is concerned only with an ill-conceived chain letter "petition" which has been circulating since February. For those who don't know why email petitions are evil check out:
http://michaelbluejay.com/main/petitions.html
Ianji 15:36, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  This is completely false................ 

message: Hi
I have flagged this as POV neutrality disputed as there are significant assumptions made within the third paragraph of the text (usage of the word will in particular '...will permanently damage...'). At this point there is no conclusive proof. As a result, this paragraph paints the damage as being a foregone conclusion. I have therefore flagged this page as needing neutrality consideration, despite my belief that even a fool could see this mine will be damaging - as sometimes investigation makes fools of the wise.
Regards
Adam Parker
good job, I have seen the same quote word for word in an email petition demanding that this development stops. Philbentley 02:35, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: ======

message: Who would have said in 1906 that the South African Gold Mines would permanantly damage the environment of South Africa? The fact is that the water spilling from the old closed mines has a pH of about 2 and this acid water is polluting our surface water and our underground dolomitic water. On the surface the local stream is devoid of aquatic life due to the oxidation of pyrites in the mine's rock to sulphuric acid. So I would say that it is quite probable that this Chilean mining will permanantly damage the Huasco river. The same sort of damage has been done elsewhere in the world.
Obviously the environmentalists need to make this and all similar information available to the Chilian Government before any final decision is made. 
How one can say that no benefit will derive to Chile from the mining I don't know? Such mining requires enormous capital inputs which will benefit Chile greatly as they did and still do for South Africa. Add to that the employment(direct and indirect) and one has quite a cost benefit equation to balance before arriving at a conclusion as to the overall cost benefit of any project. Just remember the population will probably be paying for today's benefits far into the future. Is that a legacy we want to leave to our children?
BernardCole 08:54, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  South African Gold Mining 

message: For this to be considered POV there has to be some other view right? Mathiastck 17:56, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  If this is POV who wants to represent the opposing view? 

message: On May 11th I added an external link to a petition at thepetitionsite.com. It seems someone deleted it, then someone else may have added it back and now it is gone again. The petition is at:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/946839131
Could whoever removed it please explain their reasons. There is an external link to the official Barrick site, so I don't see how NPOV could preclude an external link to the petition. I would like to understand the policy. Thanks.
--Ianji 16:24, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  External link to petition? 

message: The way to maintain neutrality is to ascribe opinions to those who hold them.  As a byproduct of actually citing sources (The article cited no sources at all up until now.), the article should be more neutral now. Uncle G 01:20, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality 

message: For three reasons:
1) it doesn't add anything useful to the article, which is about the mine project
2) the text can be found in the analysis at snopes (mentioned in this article)
3) it includes an email address which no longer accepts email
4) it has misspellings and outdated information
5) the original circulation of this petition/chain letter gave an end date of January 2005
Unless someone can present some good reasons to keep it, I will be deleting it this week. Earthsound 18:47, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If the letter is removed there should be an external link to it, both the original Spanish version and the English translation. Dentren | Talk 08:17, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The text of chain letter needs to be removed 

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thread_title:  Blacklisted Links Found on the Main Page