Talk:Johann Christian Bach

message: From a skimming comparison between the first version of this article, which was based on the 1911 EB, and the entry in The New Grove Dictionary of Music & Musicians, there doesn't appear to be any factual errors here, unlike many other articles based on the 1911 EB. I did remove this POV statement:
:His works, though elegant and pleasing, were ephemeral in character and have been largely forgotten.
Other than that, my editing was a matter of expanding the article based on what I read in the Grove. Dmetric 18:58, 5 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggestion 

message: I'd like to reword the following, if I could figure out what the author was trying to say:
:Pop culture (in this case London musical critics and scholars) can shape history very easily. Men like Haydn deserve their great fame, but geniuses such as Johann Christian tend to suffer in the wake. The proof of this is in the concert halls across America and other countries; they are filled with the grand music of Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, and more, but lacking in composers like Johann Christian Bach.
I can grasp the ending, but what "pop culture" and "London musical critics and scholars" have to do with this is utterly beyond me. Anyone have any ideas? 
Also, does anyone have a source for the "90" symphonies attributed to J.C. in the current state of the article? This number seems rather high.
-MollyTheCat 04:28, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem with the paragraph quoted above no longer exists, thanks to Adambiswanger1, who did an excellent rewrite. -MollyTheCat 16:11, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  What does this mean? 

message: Do we know why he converted to Catholicism? AdamBiswanger1 23:29, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure the exact reason is known. It did not happen until after J.C.'s move to Italy; I had thought I read something about it being related to his successful pursuit of the position of organist at Milan Cathedral (there were two organist positions). But on looking at The New Grove Bach Family (p. 316), I see that he was received into the Roman Catholic faith in 1757, but did not become organist till 1760. So career could have been a factor, but then again he did not switch back to Protestantism when he went to England, where it would have been to his advantage to do so. Perhaps there was something of a wish to distance himself from his father at work here (in religion as well as in musical style and delving into opera, which none of the other Bachs ever touched), but we can only speculate. --MollyTheCat 01:50, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps someday in a flurry of motivation I'll run to the library and take out some books relating to JCB and answer our questions.  AdamBiswanger1 02:43, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why Catholicism? 

message: I would like to point out in the works list, the lack of inclusion of works published for harp or harp as well as keyboard in his time, that is to say, the additional instrumentation. This makes research very difficult for harpists. We have six concerti, and a Sinfonia Concertante recently published, at the least. All instrumentations should be included, even if publisher's designations, as it was the practice of the time and ever since.
S.D.
Above I questioned the count of J.C. Bach's symphonies as approximately 90. I have now counted the ones in the The New Grove Bach Family work list for J.C. (symphonies on pp. 345-7), and found the following:
:Number of entries for authentic symphonies: 48
:Number of entries in "doubtful" classification: 43
This gives a rough total of 91, but the authentic grouping includes some duplications of symphonies published in slightly different editions or versions, and the doubtful group includes some works very unlikely to be authentic, including many symphonies attributed to various other composers.
A rewrite of the relevant passage of the article is therefore in order, but the reference is entangled with a lot of stuff comparing J.C.'s symphonies to Joseph Haydn's on the basis of how many symphonies each wrote. Most of these comparisons probably should be tossed as they are now seen to be bogus (since 90 authentic symphonies by J.C. do not exist), but maybe someone can think of a way to rewrite this that would keep what is really informational and edit out what is not. -MollyTheCat 09:47, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have now done a thorough rewrite of the so-called "Acclamation" section, renaming it "J.C. Bach and the Symphony" and revamping it considerably. I had to throw out a lot of the bogus comparisons to Haydn since they don't hold water, and give a rough idea of how their comparative symphonies are different. I welcome comments and further improvements. -MollyTheCat 09:32, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "90" Symphonies? 

message: J. C. Bach was not a typical galant composer and, I think, his style should not be evaluated by reverting to that of galant music in general- his music contains not only delicacy and clear lines but also drama (in his chamber works more often than his orchestral, that I've found- at least one oboe quartet, a two-piano work, for example, in their first movements more than their more typical minuet finales. And of course his C minor keyboard sonatas- from opp. 5 and 17- are famous attempts to combine styles- as was attempted often, it's true- before Mozart did so much more successfully and with fewer seams.) Schissel | Sound the Note! 18:27, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Schissel, your point is well taken. Since the article originated in the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica's entry for J.C. Bach, it's possible that some of the outdated appraisals that you note are hold-overs from that source. As shown in my edit noted in the "'90' Symphonies?" topic above, this article continues to benefit from rewrites.-MollyTheCat 09:32, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Galant music and J. C. Bach 

message: Can someone add what happened to JCB's fortunes that he ended up a pauper?  The article jumps from queen's music master to burial in a pauper's grave. thanks. Delmlsfan 03:16, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: From queen's music master to pauper

message: The article doesn't mention the festival J.C. Bach started.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.235.174.73 (talk) 18:37, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Music Festival?

message: One of the more often-recorded symphonies, the double-orchestra symphony opus 18/2 in B-flat major, is not listed. True, opus 18 no. 2 is also given to a violin sonata- that's one of the main reason why one uses catalog numbers, not opus numbers, when one can; I don't know the WCno. of the symphony, or its history, such information not being common knowledge for JC Bach as it often is for better-known composers by now (consider this problem when it arises with opus nos. & Pa. nos. for Krommer!) ... - but is the symphony there in fact, just somewhere "else"? Schissel | Sound the Note! 07:58, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Symphony op. 18/2?

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Johann Christian Bach. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160304051930/http://www.pianosociety.com/cms/index.php?section=1860 to http://www.pianosociety.com/cms/index.php?section=1860
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070921141643/http://www.earlymusicworld.com/id1.html to http://www.earlymusicworld.com/id1.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 17:32, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: After a ton of research, including consulting Bach experts and German libraries, it has been conclusively shown that a 1960’s recording by the Angelicum Orchestra of Milan,(first released on Harmonia Mundi, then Odyssey, and others, mis-identified two Concertos, (C minor and G major), as by J.C.Bach. C minor is actually by J. W. Hertel and the G Major is by Georg Anton Benda. The error may have been the result of two things:
1) No access by the West to pertinent materials kept behind the Iron Curtain. 
2) The “discovery” of a set of parts which had the name “G.C.F. Bach” attached. My speculation is that communication between the (Western), scholar, (DeNys), and the Conductor, (Cattini), broke down, resulting in the omission of the “F” in the believed composers name. Doelrich (talk) 21:33, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: See response at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Composers#Mis-attribution of J.C.Bach Harpsichord Concerto recordings. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 07:31, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Misattribution of Harpsichord Concerto recordings 

message: I was really surprised to learn about how many Children that Bach had.  Mitchellwagg (talk) 20:20, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Children 

message: — Assignment last updated by Jmares3218 (talk) 03:40, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: 19th Century Concert Life

message: I'd like to propose that the following infobox (or something similar) be added to the article. Feel free to propose adjustments and improvements to the proposal. Thanks, Cremastra (talk) 21:44, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: And cue the same arguments made 50 times over and over at other pages. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 05:52, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: (sound of crickets) 🎄Cremastra 🎄 (talk) 23:20, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  I like the idea. Spouse looks not notable. Image caption might end after the year. Fell free to implement, - you waited long enough, Cremastra. - I boldly made some fixed: no link to capital London, remove Germany which didn't exist in this sense until centuries later, made dates European. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:02, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox proposal 

message: — Assignment last updated by Megankaustin86 (talk) 04:57, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: Classic and Romantic Music History