Wikipedia talk:Meetup/Manila 2

message: Okay, first, thank you to everyone who participated in the formation of the Wikimedia Philippines Articles of Incorporation.  It passed the general membership and will soon be forwarded to the Chapters committee.
However, now we have other things to get forward, i.e.:
*We need a Secretary and Treasurer.  Who wants to nominate?
*Discussion of the Bylaws
Well, now that we have the base of our new foundation started, let's get moving forward.  We're setting a milestone by establishing the first Wikimedia chapter in Southeast Asia.  --Sky Harbor 10:04, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I propose a new meeting in July. I prefer July 8 or July 22. --Exec8 04:52, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Are these on Sundays again? --Sky Harbor 13:04, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

text: As suggested by Jondel during our first meet-up, we can organize our meeting by utilizing Wikipedia:Meetup. -- Jojit fb 02:02, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please set us a wiki meetup --Exec8 05:01, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm available on 22---I won't be around on the 8th and the 15th. --- Tito Pao 04:40, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I like meeting on a Sunday afternoon, and in a mall (easy access). --Exec8 05:01, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sundays should really be family days. Megamall is fine. --Scorpion prinz (Talk | contribs) 08:31, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, I guess I can free July 22 for this.  I have a bit of a problem organizing our page on WP:Meetup though: I don't know whether to name the subpage "Manila" or "Philippines".  --Sky Harbor 12:12, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Getting [[meta:Wikimedia Philippines|WMPH]] moving further forward 

message: :Venue : Starbucks, Building A SM Megamall.
:Time : 2:00 PM
:Date : To be discussed
::*August 5, 2007
::*August 12, 2007
::*August 19, 2007 (Quezon's Birthday)
:Agenda:
::* WikiMedia Foundation Philippines 
::**Foundation setup requirements
::**Interim Set of Officers
::**Timetable
::**Support from existing foundations or CICT.
::*Development of Philippines-related articles
::*Copyright and Fair-Use Disputes
::*Tagalog Wikipedia development
::*Wikipiniana
::*DepEd Errata guide and Wikipedia
Again, we set the agenda, the venue is still the same now I ask everybody to vote for the date. Since the concept of 2nd meeting started late June, I prefer not to further delay it. We started to draw the blueprint, now we need to break the grounds and start working. Hint: My birthday is getting close... --Exec8 12:00, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What if we set-up/use the existing Wikipedia Philippines YahooGroup and invite all Wikipedia contributors to give their suggestions, comments, etc., at least for the WMPH parts of the agenda. WMPH should encompass all Filipino Wikimedia projects. We could use their inputs when discussing the WMPH. Then the second part of the Meet-up would focus only on the English Wikipedia. --seav 13:49, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I notice that WMPH member growth has stalled.  We only have 15 members, of which the vast majority are from Metro Manila.  I left messages on the various Philippine Wikimedia project village pumps, but no one else seems interested in joining (I'm unsure about someone from the Pangasinan Wikipedia; if anyone knows how to read Pangasinan, please tell me).  I don't think I can go on the 19th (debate competition), but I think I can go on the 12th.  --Sky Harbor 12:13, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Motivation for moving forward: Wikipilipinas (a.k.a. Wikipiniana) will debut at the 28th Manila International Book Fair on August 29-September 2, 2007.  Also, Wikimedia Philippines cannot move forward without this meetup.  --Sky Harbor 16:12, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I really wish I could.  But I'm miles and miles away right now. Dragonbite 23:29, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why not set the meeting during and in the bookfare and get to meet the people behind Wikipilipinas (yehey, they changed tha name) as well. --Nino Gonzales 16:02, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

text: The book fair will be held at the World Trade Center Metro Manila Buendia cor. Macapagal Blvd., Pasay City near PICC. Do you want to meet during the fair? Exec8 21:21, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

text: As long as it is a Sunday. PS Bring a bigger Wikipedia logo this time ;)--Lenticel (talk) 03:09, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

text: September 2 is a sunday. --Exec8 04:13, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

text: Interim officers for Wikimedia Philippines, the Philippine chapter of the Wikimedia Foundation.  Sali na!  --Sky Harbor 11:35, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't know if this answers the question (Sky Harbor, correct me if I got this wrong :) . . . we're not planning to set up a school club or a church group where joining is a free lunch. We're setting sights on a real, working non-profit organization. Naturally, there will be financial matters to be addressed, and someone has to manage the finances of the group. Personally, I won't mind paying for my dues; even members of clubs such as the different Rotary clubs, Kiwanis, Lions clubs and Knights of Columbus pay their monthly dues to keep up with their respective club operations. --- Tito Pao 00:12, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right.  Possibly the only thing keeping Wikimedia Philippines from coming to fruition is finances.  We are sorely short on capital.  --Sky Harbor 14:22, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

text: Sept. 2 is a good date. My shift might change by next week, but since I have more than enough time to prepare, I can find a way to get there. --- Tito Pao 04:22, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: September 2 is good, but when will Wikipilipinas debut?  --Sky Harbor 09:40, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll be busy doing events with Read or Die Philippines, New Worlds Alliance and The Philippine Order of Narnians at the book fair that day, but i certainly look forward to meeting everyone.Alternativity 18:39, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

text: We were offered by the Wikipilipinas people (and may I note by the Gus Vibal, founder of Filipiniana.net and Wikipilipinas) one of the World Trade Center conference rooms.  I think this might be a good thing for us, as we might be able to get Filipiniana.net's backing for WMPH.  Likewise, we can recognize each other as "equals".   --Sky Harbor 06:48, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Draft 3

message: Okay, the agreed schedule is now as follows:
*Date: September 2, 2007 (Sunday)
*Place: 28th Manila International Book Fair, World Trade Center, Pasay City
*Time: Unknown, but I presume 2:00 pm
*Agenda: Same as the one in Draft 3
Please fill in the proper spots as appropriate.
===Present===
*Since there's more than enough time for me to schedule this...I'm coming, provided my work schedule won't change in September. I'll try to update as soon as possible. --- Tito Pao 23:37, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Roll call 

message: *Since there's more than enough time for me to schedule this...I'm coming, provided my work schedule won't change in September. I'll try to update as soon as possible. --- Tito Pao 23:37, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Present

message: *I will be in La Salle for the National Asians High School Debating Championship.  Can someone proxy for me?  --Sky Harbor 00:03, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Absent

message: I have some stupid questions, which have probably been answered at some point in the discussions here and during the first meet-up. I think I better ask them now than during the meet-up. Other people will probably be asking the same questions.
* What is the mission/vision of WMPH?
* Why do we need WMPH to reach this vision?
* Why do we need a legal entity (WMPH with its by-laws, officers, SEC registration, etc) to achieve this vision?
 
(Let me also act as the devil’s advocate here) I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with this effort; it is just that creating and maintaining a foundation entails a lot of time and effort. I think it would be best to make sure we know where we are aiming for before we invest part of our lives in this. My assumption in planning to support WMPH is that it will follow the mission statement of Wikimedia Foundation:
In my opinion, taking into consideration our situation here in the Philippines, “empowering and engaging people to create educational content” means educating as many people as possible on why they should and how they could contribute content in Wikipedia. As you may know in a proposal I had (I think a year ago), I think the fastest way to do this is to work with educational institutions or individual teachers to use contribution to Wikipedia (not only reading Wikipedia) to educate their students, as has been done in other parts of the world. I guess the WMPH legal entity would help in formally approaching schools and if ever we get to the point of getting donations (you can use a nice letter and a smile (or good contacts) for approaching schools, but a legal entity is probably needed (I’m not a lawyer) for any financial transaction). Which brings me to the section below. Perhaps we could figure out a win-win collaboration with WikiPhilippines to help us achieve our mission and help them achieve their mission as well.--Nino Gonzales 05:43, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Why?

message: Here’s how I see it. However passionate we are about Wikipedia, all of us are volunteers with full-time jobs (or schoolwork). Wpinas, however, will (most likely) monetize the eventual eyeballs on their site. This is their full time job. And being led by Gus Vibal, who is apparently connected with Vibal publishers, one of the largest textbook publishers in this country, Wpinas has existing connections with educational institutions, the most important thing you need to make something happen in this country. Perhaps we could work out a collaboration to help all of us come closer to our visions. If you really want to set up a foundation, I suggest we offer to make Vibal one of the board of directors (I know of two other industry leaders who are passionate about Wiki and education. One is Tech entrepreneur and the other has been leading educational institutions for quite some time). In my opinion, however, we could promote Wikipedia for education (if this is what we want to achieve) without a legal entity. An informal thing would take less work and would probably serve the same purpose. But that’s just me.--Nino Gonzales 05:43, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have actually been thinking along the same lines as well. Right now, I don't see any urgent need to put up a foundation especially since most of us have no experience doing so. I eventually think that there will be a foundation but not right now. I particularly want to explore possible collaboration options with Filipiniana.net. I think this should be one of the major topics of the meet-up. --seav 06:00, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, similar sentiment here. While a foundation would be great, I honestly think we need more people. i.e. we need to mentor/train more Filipino Wikipedians in the art of...well, building an encyclopedia. The sudden appearance of WPinas may be a blessing in disguise as the "pinoy pop-culture" and "chismis"-oriented ones will be attracted there while (I hope) the serious editors will stick around here. Honestly, I'm not sure WPinas will really want anything to do with us (except pirate us) as Wikipedians, as they do seem to be headed for the profit direction. Shrumster 06:19, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know anymore; are you implying that WMPH as it stands is not viable?  --Sky Harbor 07:19, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, we did get to have the AoI approved so that counts for something. But I guess I don't think that just because there is actually an existing foundation that we can advance Wikimedia's vision in the Philippines at a level of activity better than we're doing now. Some of the more important things I think--like producing high-quality encyclopedic content (and textbooks, etc.)--can be done without any foundation. We need to prove first that Filipino Wikimedia volunteers (not just on the English Wikipedia) can collaborate on building Wikimedia projects online before we go publicizing and promoting offline. --seav 07:54, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm sure it is viable. But I don't think it is a question of viability. If we are to start a foundation, it will probably be you, Sky Harbor, being the most passionate about this, who will do most of the work. But think, what will bring us closer to our goals faster: using your time with the bureaucracy of starting a foundation or using that same amount of time to write and edit Wikipedia? I'm currently involved with an NGO and, man, it requires a lot of work, and I don't even handle the foundation stuff. But that's just my opinion, and it's your time. --Nino Gonzales 04:50, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Frankly, I'm just a kid.  But still, I do agree that we can organize, just at a later date.  I'd rather see everything get approved first and see how well people will embrace Wikipedia, especially with "other entities" getting media exposure.  --Sky Harbor 13:32, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: How do we collaborate with Wpinas?

message: Just so everyone will know...the World Trade Center Manila is huuuuge; there are 404 slots for booths in the place, but even if some exhibitors will be occupying more than one booth, you can be sure that we'll need to agree on a specific spot where we could meet up.
Here is a map of the floor plan. The website doesn't have any information (yet) about the specific booths, so from what I can gather so far with the little information I have, a meet-up somewhere in the lobby or near a conspicuous location at the WTC-Manila (such as the Dining Area, the Function Room, or one of the booths just near the entrance) is good. I was tempted to say "concessionaire", but it looks like it's a long, long walk =P
Once there is more information on the website, I'll try posting them ASAP. If possible, I'll also try visiting the Book Fair before the meet-up, as I'll need all the time in the world to look for the books I wanted to buy (and that also means that, if and when I make it on Sept. 2, I will surely be at the bookfair as early as it opens...yeah, I'm such a bookworm ;) --- Tito Pao 03:45, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Take note though that the map is from the back forward, so the top portion of the map is the very back of the WTC.  --Sky Harbor 01:08, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Guys..WikiPilipinas is asking your confirmation for the meet-up meeting.http://www.filipiniana.net:8080/forum/viewtopic.php?t=145--125.252.109.28 02:17, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

text: Thanks Wikiboy! We'll be there. :) --seav 16:24, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Specific location 

message: ...so I have the following peepz' numbers on my email inbox:
*Jojit fb
*Lenticel
*seav
*Nino Gonzales
And, of course, I have Sky Harbor's number as well (but you should all be able to find that information as well =P I also have Scorpion prinz's email address, but not his number...so if I have to send out something, I'd like to include him as well.
I'd like to first apologize for not having updated myself lately: my new work sked begins this week and, while I still have Sundays and Mondays off, my work hours were moved a few hours early, so that would mean I leave for work when most of you are sleeping or have just turned off their TV sets after catching up on Bandila or 24 Oras; I'm taking my lunch while most of you are just having your breakfast; and I'm getting prepped up for bedtime when most of you are having merienda. I'm still having migraines since this is the first week of my new sked =P
Per seav, the new venue will be at the Marina Restaurant near Wensha Spa. The date and time will be this Sunday, Sept. 2 2007, at around lunchtime.
Nino is proposing something for the meet-up---in particular, he thinks that those who wants to come to the meet-up should...well, meet up first before proceeding to the Marina resto. I'll be e-mailing the details to the others and, as soon as I can, text everyone about this proposal. I'll be prioritizing those I've named above. If you want to be included in my mailing list, please let me know ASAP. My "Email this user]] link is still open for you to use, so feel toxic to send me a note.
One final note: I'll be copying this post to the other post in the Meet-up page, so feel free to respond to either thread. Thanks --- Tito Pao 18:56, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just a quick note. Been to the Blogger's Dinner and talked to Wikiboy about the arrangement for the lunch Meet-up. They're actually quite busy with the Book Fair (especially since it's a weekend) and they probably won't meet us face-to-face to talk about things. It's basically just us and a FilNet representative who will foot the lunch bill. Anyway, I got Wikiboy's contact number in case we guys really need to have a dialogue with the FilNet/WikiPinas people. --seav 00:30, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ganon?  Okay, I'll be sending out an email to you that contains everyone's numbers, with a CC to the others (including Sky Harbor. I'll try to update myself after the shift (just a little after lunchtime), we all really need to discuss plans for tomorrow. If ever, please pass word that I will be online tonight and, probably, a little bit between lunchtime and before dusk, so that we can all discuss how to go about this since hindi rin lang pala matutuloy yung meet-up with the WPinas key people. Thanks. --- Tito Pao 02:59, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Guys a little off topic lang ha pero pwede ba sa World Trade tayo magkita? Kasi doon papunta yung pamilya ko at hindi ko alam ang lugar. Lenticel (talk) 09:31, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm actually going to the bookfair first thing in the morning since I wasn't able to make it in the past few days (because of my !%@?!ing schedule (grrr...), so either way I would still be there. How about the others? --- Tito Pao 11:39, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Magsisimba ako sa Day by Day (CCP) so around 12 ako makakapunta.Lenticel (talk) 12:08, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  One day to go... 

message: Check out the Technews section of today's (Sep 3) edition. I've been interviewed by Ms. Annalyn Jusay regarding WikiPilipinas and Wikipedia. It doesn't seem to be online yet, so try to get the actual paper in the meantime. :-) --seav 08:59, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Enjoy... http://www.mb.com.ph/issues/2007/09/03/TECH20070903102006.html --Nino Gonzales 07:15, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Wikipedia vs. WikiPilipinas Debate in Manila Bulletin 

message: i know that you guys want to be independent, but maybe it is just more easier and more convenient if someone will merge the two resources
Andre boink100 13:29, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It should be the other way around. --Howard the Duck 14:51, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Technically speaking, that is not only impractical, it's infeasible. Either you order WikiPilipinas to take their servers to Florida et.al. (but then, WPinas would appear like it's Wikipedia content), or tell Wikipedia to cram its humongous data into the much smaller ISP of WikiPilipinas (Wikipedia's servers are distributed over a hundred servers in different ISPs and universities in three continents; the host of WikiPilipinas, AFAIK, is hosted by one company only.) It's like trying to cram all the animals of a zoo inside a chihuahua's doghouse. Kamusta naman yon? =P Bear in mind that WikiPilipinas is much smaller in scope than Wikipedia---it limits itself only to Philippine-related topics. And although you can see Pinoys here on the Wikipedia, we're still very much a part of the greater Wikipedia. Demanding a merge of Wikipedia and WikiPinas is being simplistic and naive, to put it mildly. --- Tito Pao 16:04, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Yep. As Howard and Pao have stated already, bad idea. WikiPilipinas' scope is purely Philippine-related topics while the Filipino Wikipedias (Tagalog, Cebuano, other dialects) are Wikipedia-in-another-language. So they keep Wikipedia's scope of...pretty much anything. Shrumster 07:26, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  merging Wikipiniana and the filipino wikipedia 

message: *WikiPilipinas Just so you guys should know, someone already started an article. We might want to chip in so that the article meets *ahem* Wikipedia standards. :) Shrumster 16:21, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: * :D Shrumster 05:20, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: * Been fixing the article. Feel free to chip in if you guys find any ideas. Not sure how it should go, never worked on an article about a content-provider web service before. Shrumster 08:43, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow. Now I'm a Wikipedia source. Hehehe. --seav 16:37, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Although Wikipedia frowns upon blogs as a whole as sources, since most, if not virtually all of the commentary has been in the Philippine blogosphere, and since the majority of the blogs involved are from prominent and/or influential bloggers, I think we can let this one pass.  --Sky Harbor 01:20, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

text: *And they don't have the amount of white blood cells/recent changes patrollers yet so I guess these kiddie vandals find it easier to sneak their edits past the vandalwatchers. Shrumster 19:19, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

text: *Just realized...if this is the way they're going, I wonder if they will be implementing or trashing WP:OWN? I see a lot of potential for malevolent vandalism in this case. I mean, who hasn't passed by a rather-annoying-looking Friendster/MySpace/Multiply/LJ account and wondered...what if you could just change what it says? :P Shrumster 15:16, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *As mentioned before, WikiPilipinas is a amalgamation of various content styles. It's not just an encyclopedia anymore. As such, I disagree with their usage of the word "encyclopedia" to describe themselves since they're not focusing on the academic properties of their content. --seav 17:02, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *Yeah. The term "encyclopedia" promotes a particular air of...academic authority that's a bit dangerous when it's being applied to something that seeks to take one particular majority point-of-view. BTW, hope you don't mind, I mentioned you by name in the WPinas article. :P Shrumster 17:12, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *That exactly is my reason why I'm not taking WPinas seriously, even if it has the backing of a textbook publisher. There was no editorial oversight to speak of in the first place, policies (if there are any) are virtually ineffective, and any efforts to try cleaning up or boosting their image would be too late an action. In a word: total chaos. And they call that an "encyclopedia"? --- Tito Pao 18:13, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *Well, as long as people visit the site, vandals or otherwise, they will have eyeballs to sell ads to, which, basing on their editorial policy, is probably what they are after. But, yeah, "encyclopedia" seems to be misused.--Nino Gonzales 06:01, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

text: *Amen to that. I'm a bit distressed by this press release. (en.wikipilipinas.org/index.php?title=Press_Release:WikiPilipinas_continues_its_juggernaut_dominance_of_Philippine_knowledge) here. It seems like their priority seems to be along the lines of...in colloquial terms..."palakihan ng TT." :P Can't believe I actually registered (to prevent anyone from using my username and to tag images with sources). Shrumster 12:27, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

text: *Could anyone tag my images (like say "came from User:Howard the Duck of the English Wikipedia"? I'm too lazy to register there (I have lots of memberships already, I don't the passwords of other websites I go to :D). Thanks. --Howard the Duck 12:37, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *Will see what I can do about it. Do you have a gallery on WP I can reference? Shrumster 13:05, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *Whoops. Just found User:Howard_the_Duck/Images. :D Shrumster 13:06, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *Thanks (it's not even complete hehehe). You may also check out the upload log. But some of those are really simple "coloring book" images. But don't tag the logos, they're not mine. And can you at least tag images there as an IP? It'll be much easier for me. --Howard the Duck 13:14, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *Whoops, finished with the school colors. :P Although I did attribute that they're in the public domain and that you were the one who originally uploaded them onto the en.wp. I also attributed the espana pic (they didn't copy the arch one/deleted it) and the two archdiocese maps already. Haven't done the others yet. I've been creating image categories kasi. Can't believe they haven't even ported over the GFDL/CC/etc categorization. :p Shrumster 17:43, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

text: *Great, tried warning someone/pointing someone towards the appropriate page to be used when copygin text from WP, my message was deleted. diff. Shrumster
====DYK?====
*Just wondering, would the new article (recently expanded within the last 5 days) pass for a WP:DYK? On a less-selfish note, it'd be an interesting start for a Philippine-related DYK. On a selfish note, that'd up its pagerank. ;) No idea how the DYK system works though. Anyone? :D Shrumster 08:23, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

text: If it was a stub 5 days ago, then it's legit. --Howard the Duck 12:42, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, might not pass. I nominated it anyway. *crosses fingers* Shrumster 17:40, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yey, it made it! Shrumster 16:58, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Wikipedia article

message: *Just wondering, would the new article (recently expanded within the last 5 days) pass for a WP:DYK? On a less-selfish note, it'd be an interesting start for a Philippine-related DYK. On a selfish note, that'd up its pagerank. ;) No idea how the DYK system works though. Anyone? :D Shrumster 08:23, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If it was a stub 5 days ago, then it's legit. --Howard the Duck 12:42, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, might not pass. I nominated it anyway. *crosses fingers* Shrumster 17:40, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yey, it made it! Shrumster 16:58, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: DYK?