Talk:Communist Action Organization in Lebanon

message: Why there is not a single word about LNRF. The Lebanese national resistance front was a succesor of the Lebanese National Movement since it have broked in 1982, especially when Walid Jumblatt left it by forming his own PSP militia.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.198.149.238 (talk) 17:26, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Lebanese National Resistance Front

message: I have protected the page to encourage a resolution to the current edit war. I personally fail to see any reason why the dozen or so sources cited should be removed, as they seem entirely relevant. Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 23:25, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They are perhaps relevant, in the article that deals with the issue of Syrian military presence in Lebanon. It is unreasonable that half of the article on COA is eaten up by a series of POV-pushing references. Notably the collection of 12 sources are all of the similar view, whereas there would be possibility of adding sources contradicting these claims. --Soman 04:36, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The reason the references were required is because you kept denying that Lebanon was occupied, so reliable sources were required to prove that fact.  And a wide variety of sources have been used, from all over the political spectrum, which belies your claim that they are "POV-pushing", and you've never even tried to provide counter-references, just deleted valid ones. I'd be willing to take out the references, but you'd just insist on reverting the "occupation", based on "no references". Think of a different strategy besides reverting properly referenced and relevant information, and present it here; maybe we can work something out. Jayjg (talk) 19:53, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I have unprotected the article.  I recommend using ref tags; then, only create a footnote (with source) if something is disputed. Superm401 - Talk 03:57, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  protected 

message: Does anyone know if any abbreviation of the party name has been used in Arabic? Mash? Mashal? --Soman 16:40, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Never heard of any. The book of Hawi interviews which I've cited consistently refers to it as منظمة العمل الشيوعي. As you probably know, it's quite unusual to use acronyms and abbreviations in Arabic (unlike Hebrew). The only cases that come to mind where political parties use them are Fath, Hamas, and Fida (which is a half-English, half-Arabic acronym), and in all three cases the acronym used is itself intended as a name. I think most parties that are known by acronyms or abbreviations in English are known by either their full names or short versions of in Arabic, e.g. DFLP popularly referred to as "al-jabha al-dimuqratiyya" or just "al-dimuqratiyya", PFLP "al-sha3biyya", SSNP as "al-qawmiyyin al-suriyyin", Democratic Front for Peace and Equality as "al-Jabha". Palmiro | Talk 17:04, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, arabic abbreviation usage is a bit particular. However, JSh is used for PFLP, JD is used for DFLP and Hashaf is used for PPP, at least in graffiti. --Soman 17:11, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: True, but I don't recall coming across these in other contexts - not that I'm an expert on the topic. Palmiro | Talk 17:13, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  abbreviation? 

message: Soman, can you explain why you keep removing properly cited and relevant information? For example, that the organization is sometimes known as (also called the Lebanese Communist Action Organization, or LCAO), that the Socialist Lebanon Movement was "a smaller group of Arab nationalists and former Baathists" (not the ANM as you keep changing it), that in the spring of 1972 a large number of CAO members, who felt that neither the DFLP nor the CAO had committed sufficiently to "people's war", defected to Fatah? Your grasp on the facts of the group has not been great so far - for example you claimed it was set up in 1970, when it was actually set up in May 1971, you did not note that Organization of Lebanese Socialists was also led be Muhammad Kishli, etc. Why would you remove cited fact from reliable sources? Jayjg (talk) 16:22, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Regarding the date of foundation, both 1970 and 1971 are flourishing. There might be an explanation for this (often in the communist microcosm mergers take place in steps, first a unified organization is formed through agreements between leaderships, later a constitutive conference is held). Regarding Kishli, he was not removed. Regarding the Fatah defection it puzzles me a little. Did former CAO militants become Fatah members or did they align with Fatah (but being members of a separate Lebanese tendency)? I've not heard of non-Palestinians joining palestinian factions in the 1970s. --Soman 16:31, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Regarding Socialist Lebanon, my version reads 'The latter was a smaller group of Arab nationalists and former Baathists.', i.e. identical to yours. --Soman 16:33, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

text: First of all, regarding the name the issue is that LCAO is based upon an incorrect translation of the arabic name. It is not an abbreviation widely used, rather it is the choice of the individual author to use that naming. English abbreviations were not widely used by Lebanese factions in the 70s and 80s. --Soman 16:53, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: When translitterating arabic names there are always a variety of possible versions. His name could also be Mohsen, Mohsin, etc. In a few cases there are established spellings in English media (like Saddam Hussien), and one can also argue that French standardized spellings should be used for people from the Magreb, etc. However, in the case of Muhsin Ibrahim, i don't think any of these standards comply. We simply have to arbitrarily settle on one spelling of the name, there is no version that is more correct than another. Regarding the name of the organization don't you think its a bit odd that there's not a single google hit for the arabic version of the name you're proposing? (the wide majority of articles simply use the name Communist Action Organization)  gives the official name of the organization in French, a name that clearly corresponds to the arabic name I'm using. Is there any backing that LCAO had been used anywhere exept as a reference amongst English-language scholars? --Soman 17:26, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm tired of fighting about this, your latest edits are fine with me. Jayjg (talk) 23:00, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Latest reversions 

message: Jayjg's edit is problematic on certain accounts:
*The name of the organization is clearly explained in the heading. The name is 'Communist Action Organization in Lebanon' (with original in arabic), not LCAO.
*The same goes for Socialist Lebanon. The original name in arabic is clearly stated in that article.
*The links between CAO and DFLP, as well as al-Hurriya, is already mentioned further up in the text. No need to duplicate.
*The sentence "The LCAO allied with the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine, but in the spring of 1972 a large number of members, who felt that neither group had committed sufficiently to "people's war", defected to Fatah." is a bit odd. First, where the links between CAO and DFLP weren't damaged by this split right? also, who actually defected to Fatah? CAO members, DFLP members or people from both organizations? The sentence is confusing the way it stands now. --Soman 16:26, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As one might see, I began editing this post before being able to read Jayjg's last post. --Soman 16:27, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jayjg's edit 

message: *The correct abbreviation to be used is perhaps OACL. see . 
* mentions Beyrouth al Massa as the OACL organ.
--Soman 17:12, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Two points 

message: , gives light to the viewpoints of OACL on the Lebanese National Movement, etc. --Soman 17:38, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Interview with OACL 

message: See  regarding OACL being founded in 1970. Also note relevant info on 1973-74 strike, students movement and role in radicalizing Shias. --Soman 17:45, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  1970 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Communist Action Organization in Lebanon. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070928000227/http://www.moqatel.com/openshare/Wthaek/FreeDocs/GeneralDoc7/AGeneralDocs23_2-1.htm_cvt.htm to http://www.moqatel.com/openshare/Wthaek/FreeDocs/GeneralDoc7/AGeneralDocs23_2-1.htm_cvt.htm
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 12:40, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Communist Action Organization in Lebanon. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20170810005110/http://www.aub.edu.lb/fas/ife/Documents/downloads/series3_2003.pdf to http://www.aub.edu.lb/fas/ife/Documents/downloads/series3_2003.pdf
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 15:31, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018)