Talk:Dalida

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: DalidaEditor, I concur with your rollback, but when it involves reverting the work of several editors, as was the case here, it's customary, or at least, advisable, to add a section here on the Talk page to explain your reasoning. Otherwise, it can look a bit too much like ownership. In one case, you removed a reference added by KawatharUAE, but this is defensible, since it was added to the lead summarizing article content that was already sourced in the body. Going forward, if you roll back again, please raise a section here, and explain your action. If there are any objections, you'll need to respond and find consensus to determine how to proceed.  Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 01:13, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, I understand and agree but I think this is a completely different case. If you look at past two months of Dalida page edits you would notice how most edits were whether she is Egyptian, French or Italian; so just spinning around because of random users, some even unregistered, are again trying to inflict personal opinions. The topic was disscussed and solved, the most basic fact about Dalida that was never doubtful. And some other edits were; transfer of American style words to British which was done partially by user leaving the article in complete mess, and capitalizing some words from no reason... That is why I didn't add any section because I tought those edits weren't much of important nature, thus completely unnecessary. Dalida Editor  please ping or message me 02:08, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: , okay, well, it might be less obvious to someone just looking at the rev history and wondering what's going on, who isn't as familiar with the article, and its history, as you are. The safe thing, and the user-friendly thing to do, is to add some comments here. Now that's done, so if you don't get any pushback here, then it's fine. Happy editing! Mathglot (talk) 02:12, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes you are right, thanks for nice approach. Keep safe. Dalida Editor  please ping or message me 00:16, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  April 3 rollback 

message: * "In a career spanning more than 30 years, Dalida sold 85 million records" — Suicide in the Entertainment Industry by David K. Frasier (2015); pag. 74
*"She sold over 85 million records world-wide over the years" — Macmillan Dictionary of Women's Biography by Jennifer Uglow (1993); pag. 145
* "she sang primarily in French or Italian, selling in excess of 85 million records worldwide" — Rock Obituaries: Knocking On Heaven's Door by Nick Talevski (2010); pag 114
* "she recorded more than 500 songs in eight languages and sold more than 100 million records" — Frommer's Memorable Walks in Paris by Jeanne Oliver (1998); pag. 121
* "Dalida became a major star in France, selling 120 million records during a thirty-year career that began in 1956" — HA!: A Self-Murder Mystery by Gordon Sheppard (2003) 
* "Dalida , qui avait vendu 120 millions de disques de son vivant" — by Capital (FR); pag. 118, issues: 154-159
* 140 million albums by BroadwayWorld (2019)
--Apoxyomenus (talk) 19:07, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sales 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion 

message: Not “French”! This is the funniest thing I’ve read. —MatthewS. (talk) 09:27, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  She’s Egyptian by birth and heritage, Italian by blood, 

message: First of all, I want to point out that this page looks like a fanzine page and it is not very balanced. I edited the nationality of Dalida, using the terms written in the Wikipedia French and Italian pages, The Spanish version uses the term 'Italian-French' citizenship. The user Cheep has reverted my edit. On the Wikipedia pages in French and Italian, Dalida is described as Italian, naturalised French. Dalida's first nationality was Italian. She was born in Egypt by Italian parents and she acquired Italian nationality at birth (jus sanguinis citizenship). Her mother tongue was Italian, she attended Italian school in Egypt and grew up in an Italian environment. She moved to France and acquired her French citizenship in 1961 after marrying Lucien Morisse, at age 28. Her first nationality was Italian and she became also French citizen. Deleting the fact she was first an Italian citizen, it is a disrespect to facts. She was Italian too, not just her parents. Now, the user LynwoodF was worried just to revert the correct information, stating that "This matter has been discussed at length before". I checked the previous discussion on this talk page and I don't see any balanced discussion at length, about this topic, but just a heavy involvement of a Dalida fan. Why is this behaviour allowed on the wikipedia English page of Dalida, when the other languages had dealt with the topic in a better and balanced way? Why does this page look like a fanzine? I am asking for the involvement of administrators. Thank you.--Cutio.mer (talk) 10:21, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hi, other wikipedias are irrelevant in this case. Dalida is a French singer. There was a lot of talk about this topic even though there was no basis for it, but that discussion at least yielded a very concise and accurate introduction to article: “French singer, born in Egypt to Italian parents”. Cordially Dalida Editor  please ping or message me 09:48, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I asked for a feedback from an admin, not a Dalida's fan, tbh. Other wikipedia pages are not irrelevant, moreover Dalida was more known among French and Italian audience than English one. Dalida wasn't just born to Italian parents, but she was Italian herself, mother tongue Italian, and acquired later French citizenship at 28. Yes, she was singing mainly French, but she was singing also in other languages. Also you are really making a disservice to historical facts. Anyway, Dalida already explained clearly that in a song: ″C'est vrai, c'est vrai. C'est vrai que, je suis italienne. De naissance égyptienne″. Like it or not. Cutio.mer (talk) 11:30, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Asking for admin involvement 

message: Another misinformation reported. Here is the evidence after some research. Antigone Costanda was Miss Egypt in 1954 (elected necessarily in 53 for the year 1954) and incidentally Miss World, ahead of Karin Hultman Miss USA. (Source 1 & 2) 
Dalida competed in Miss Ondine of Cairo, a variant of Miss Egypt. What is more, she did not win the contest and finished second runner-up. As confirmed by Le journal d'Egypte on June 9, 1954: "Paula Williams was elected Bathing Beauty 1954. Her runners-up are Yolande Gigliotti and Catherine Kindilidis". Paula Williams was indeed Miss Ondine of Cairo. Another source, the book Dalida: Mythe et mémoire (ISBN : 978-2361393977): "[...] it is in this context that the name of a certain Yolande Giglioti appears in the press, but not as a winner but second prize ex eaquo: Mrs Paula Williams has was voted Bathing Beauty 1954". For reasons of fame, reality has been distorted regarding Dalida.
In fact...
Miss Egypt 1953: Marina Papaelia (reference)
Miss Egypt 1954: Antigone Costanda
Miss Egypt 1955: Gladys Hoene
In light Dalida was second runner-up in the 1954 Miss Ondine Cairo contest (Bathing Beauty) and has never been Miss Egypt. --Elenora.C (talk) 11:31, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, I have responded to your information by removing the less important beauty contest text. If she was only second runner up, it's not enough to mention in the first paragraph. Binksternet (talk) 14:30, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: @Binksternet I was also thinking about deleting the info. But I'm not the only one to decide... in any case, thank you for once again intervening. The term "miss egypt" in one of the titles should also be deleted. I'm going to do it. Elenora.C (talk) 17:01, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dalida was never Miss Egypt in 1954 

message: :I also allow myself to add its sources that I had given previously in another section.
:*Concerning these alleged Egyptian origins : Book : DALIDA une vie…, page 6 (ISBN :978-2205-06107-9) : « For the Egyptian state, she is of Italian nationality and is named Iolanda-Cristina ». The official papers are published in the book. Anyway her Italian nationality is certain. 
:*Dalida does indeed have two nationalities: Book : L’Argus Dalida, page 1 (ISBN : 9782953141153) : « French at heart, the Diva (as her admirers call her) was born in Egypt and kept her Italian nationality, inherited from her ancestors. » here is the link where you can precisely read an extract and where you will find the sentence.
:@LynwoodF, @DalidaEditor Here is a set of elements brought by @Binksternet and me.
:A few simple questions:
:Won't you consider the above sources?
:Are you going to go against the Italian law which Dalida is under aegis? (as demonstrated with supporting sources and documents)
:As a reminder, I quote Wikipedia: "Encyclopedic content must be verifiable through citations to reliable sources". And also argues that: "Law sources that are written by authoritative experts in law, such as legal scholars, and published by respected independent publishing houses are normally reliable sources." here. Waiting for your answer, I allow myself to thank you in advance. Good day to all.--Elenora.C (talk) 10:30, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Dalida dropped her Italian nationality upon marriage in 1961 and took the French. Identity card:  Dalida Editor  please ping or message me 15:27, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: That image doesn't support your statement that Dalida "dropped her Italian nationality". It supports her French nationality, which nobody here is questioning, but doesn't say anything negative about Italian nationality. She was Italian nationality at birth. Binksternet (talk) 15:43, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: "Italian citizenship was exclusive until 15 August 1992; therefore, the voluntary acquisition of any non-Italian citizenship meant the automatic renunciation of one’s Italian citizenship for people who were born with Italian citizenship."https://italiancitizenshipassistance.com/jure-sanguinis/#:~:text=Italian%20citizenship%20was%20exclusive%20until,were%20born%20with%20Italian%20citizenship. Can it be more clear?Dalida Editor  please ping or message me 20:19, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Changing to from one nationality to another does not erase a person's history. Binksternet (talk) 20:52, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Others sources 

message: Change "was an Italian singer and actress, naturalized French, born in Egypt" to "was an Egyptian-born, Italian-French singer and actress". 
Also, there is inconsistency in the info box. Under Born, it says she was born as "Iolanda Cristina Gigliotti" but in the info box under Other Names, it says "Yolanda Gigliotti" (which was not how her name was spelled, it was spelled as "Iolanda"), please change it to "Iolanda Gigliotti".
I think this inconsistency will only causes more confusion for fans who visit the article. 74.15.254.221 (talk) 05:52, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Not doing this ~ there has been a great deal of discussion about how to define Dalida in the initial sentence; I'm not certain that the current phrasing is what has been the long-term consensus, but I am certain that what you ~ IP 74.14... ~ want it changed to is contrary to both consensus and well-written English.  Happy days, ~ LindsayHello 17:47, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  Okay, I get it. At least change the name in the infobox. Please change "Yolanda Gigliotti" under other names to "Iolanda Gigliotti". The reason is that her name was stylized as "Iolanda" (as her parents were Italian, not spaniards) not "Yolanda". Please change it. Also under born it says "Iolanda Cristina Gigliotti' not Yolanda and it does not make any sense that her name is spelled different under born.74.15.254.221 (talk) 00:56, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: The point is that it is "other names" ~ and Iolanda and Yolanda are different.  I assume someone put Yolanda where they did as they had come across one or more places her name was given as Yolanda, so without knowing that isn't the case, i won't remove it (though another editor may see things differently).  If it helps, think of it like this:  We give her name as Iolanda and, where we use a name, that's what we use; all the infobox is doing is giving a variant ~ which may well have been barely used or incorrect ~ for completeness' sake. I can't see that causing any confusion, it merely makes us encyclopaedic. Happy days, ~ LindsayHello 06:16, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: No one called her "Yolanda" as far as I'm concerned. Also, there was a mispelling of "Dalida" writen as "Dalila". No one called her, no source encyclopedic or not refered to her as "Dalila" this is likely a typo written by another editor. Maybe I'm asking for too much, but it's an observation. 74.15.254.221 (talk) 07:12, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

text: For the record, the wording I was happy with years ago read "...was a French singer and actress born in Egypt to Italian parents..." She was never entitled to Egyptian nationality - I have researched the relevant law - and she rose to fame after moving to France. She acquired French nationality by marriage, but never lost her Italian nationality. Incidentally, there is a similar problem with Audrey Hepburn, who was born in Belgium to a Dutch mother and and a British father, but was never entitled to Belgian or Dutch nationality. LynwoodF (talk) 09:29, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, , that is the reading i recall agreement on.  I've only just come in an on-line, but i may take a look at the history in a little bit and see at what point it was changed from that and if there was consensus for a change and, depending on what i find, change it back.  That version was the end result of a large discussion (and edit war), and i'd be surprised if we had consensus to do away with it. Happy days, ~ LindsayHello 12:31, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: There we go, i've checked and can see no consensus to change away from the agreed wording, merely changed back and forth by drive-by editors.  I have reverted to what was there, and added a couple of invisible comments asking for it not to be changed without discussion ~ not that i expect them to have any effect, but i put them there in the hope that they do  Happy days, ~ LindsayHello 18:18, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you, , for handling that. I agree that sooner or later someone will come along and change it again, but we can usually just revert. People keep on changing Audrey Hepburn and I am one of several who restore the agreed wording. I am old now and I rarely get there first these days, but I keep an eye on both these artcles. LynwoodF (talk) 21:15, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: It has been largely discussed (see poll above) with proofs that Dalida had Italian citizenship all her life and acquired French citizenship also later in life. Writing she was just born to Italian parents it is half true. Why then not writing Italian-French? I find this persistency really bizarre, considering that in the French and Italian page of Dalida in wikipedia (the countries where she was most famous) it is clearly stated she was Italian, natualized French.Cutio.mer (talk) 21:19, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

text: I have reverted again to the version which was agreed on the poll (unlike what you write), confirmed by the different sources cited above and reinforced by the fact the definition of Dalida as 'Italian naturalised French' is used on Wikipedia French and Italian pages. Please, feel free to re-open a new discussion, if you have sources that disprove Dalida Italian citizenship (from birth to death). Happy days! Cutio.mer (talk) 00:36, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: The poll result was divided, and did not indicate a change away from the previous consensus which was "French singer and actress born in Egypt to Italian parents." Binksternet (talk) 14:10, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please, Make changes 

message: In the introduction, it says "Featuring spoken word by Alain Delon". This is incorrect. "Word" should be plural : "Words". It should not be singular. Please fix it and change it to "Featuring spoken words by Alain Delon".76.64.181.63 (talk) 08:01, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: The idiomatic phrase in English is "spoken word", thus it is correct and doesn't need changing. Happy days, ~ LindsayHello 08:09, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: What is the Idiom? I don't understand what "Spoken Word" as an idion means. Why would it be used in this context? 76.64.181.63 (talk) 18:41, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: See Spoken word. --jpgordon𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇 20:27, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

text:  I agree that "spoken word" is idiomatic and is appropriate in this context. Moreover, "spoken words" would not be normal English in this particular phrase. One could say, "words spoken by (whoever)" and that would be perfectly normal English, although not particularly appropriate in this context. LynwoodF (talk) 14:10, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please correct misspelling 

message: According to French souces, and based on what I heard in a video, Dalida was nicknamed Dalì, maybe someone should add it under Other Names. 76.64.181.63 (talk) 18:41, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: If you provide the sources, the nickname could be added. --jpgordon𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇 20:28, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nickname  

message: What is Dalila? Why is it under Other Names? May I request it be removed? If not, please provide a source for this name. 76.64.181.63 (talk) 02:28, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, for example, this source in the article. --jpgordon𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇 02:35, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay but what about Yolanda Gigliotti Where is the source for that? 76.64.181.63 (talk) 02:37, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: everywhere? Born "Iolanda", took on the French spelling when she was naturalized. --jpgordon𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇 03:03, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: That's not a source. The French spelling of the name is actually "Yolande" with an E. I speak some French, I know. Then in that case it should be changed to "Yolande Gigliotti". Or just "Yolande" 76.64.181.63 (talk) 05:23, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: So fix it. --jpgordon𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇 05:48, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: With proper sources, of course. --jpgordon𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇 17:20, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dalila?