Talk:Ganguro/Archive 1

message: It’s a fashion that evolved out from a youth counter-culture against the perceived notion of "beauty" in Japanese media, which consisted of light skin and dark hair. Ganguro was created to counter-act this image, not to imitate African Americans. Please re-write the article.
:Don't just complain, re-write it yourself. I admit this page is in pretty bad shape, due to the many dubious additions that many people have made to it. Also, please sign your comments here on the Talk page by typing ~~~~ at the end. adamrice 01:52, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ganguro is NOT an attempt to look black!!! 

message: At risk of stirring the pot, I've deleted "they don't exist anymore." They do. Perhaps not as popular as a few years ago, but Shibuya is still crawling with them.
:Really? I haven't been there for a few years, but I was watching a TV programme about high school girls in Shibuya last night, and I didn't see a single ganguro. As far as I know, ganguro are totally gone, along with their platform shoes and white lipstick. --DannyWilde 13:41, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It's been about a year since I was there. When I was there, they were still much in evidence. The trend has transmogrified somewhat, and apparently the catchier name for them now is "まんば" (from やまんば, the nickname for more extreme ガングロ cases, taken from the name of kabuki "mountain witch" role). adamrice 14:11, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I was in Shibuya this summer, and while there are less of them, I also concur that they're still there.--Fitret 21:29, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They aren't just in Shibuya, either. They are also in Osaka's Amemura and right now many of them are sitting outside convenience stores all over the country. (^^)b  Dekimasu 10:23, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  don't exist 

message: I am thinking about taking out the reference link to "black face" being that this isnt relevent culturally to this Japanese culture issue? does anyone else agree? If you disagree please put this back in: (I removed it from the page because it seemed to not connect.)
I removed:
* See race, blackface
:I think the link in blackface to Ganguro should stay -- simply because it's an interesting twist on the whole notion of ethnic transformation via applied cosmetics.  As far as linking the two articles from here to there -- that's another issue.  But I think I'd leave it. I mean why not lead readers someplace unexpected?  That's part of the fun of this venue.  Peace.  deeceevoice 15:40, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps the link to blackface should stay, but I think that in the first line we might consider translating the Japanese word into "dark" rather than "black". Are there any Japanese speakers to back me up on this? --Dpr 06:17, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Nobody will back you up because "kuro" means nothing but "black". --DannyWilde 13:41, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Live and learn. Thanks for setting me straight. --Dpr 13:34, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  link to black face and race issues

message: Downright scary.  (Erlch.)  deeceevoice 01:44, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Scary

message: This picture is not of "ganguro" at all, just some girls with tans. If you think these girls are ganguro, it would explain why people don't realise there are no ganguros any more. The ganguros were very darkly tanned. I looked at the link in the picture caption, and it says they're ganguro but hmm... I don't think so. Also, is this usage of the photo OK with copyright? --DannyWilde 09:19, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Just one tiny data point, but all of the Japanese people I've spoken to agreed that there are no "ganguro" any more. Have you asked any of these girls if they consider themselves ganguro? Maybe it would be good for your research. --DannyWilde 05:46, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Ask people from Shibuya, the mecca of Ganguro fashion. Granted, they are not as widespread as in the year 2000, but there are still a few of them there. Altough they fall into the definition of ganguro, the term itself isn't used much amongst themselves, nowadays the most common term is "Manba" (Shortened from Yamanba), But if you refer to one of these girls as "Ganguro Gyaru" they won't deny it, just maybe look at you funny for using a "last week" expression. Maybe you are onto something, maybe the word has been falling out of style because the outrageously deep tans have fallen aswell (and ganguro literally means black face). Altough I have seen one girl in a dance video recently with a very deep tan, so we can't even call those dead either. There isn't a clear definition between Ganguro (or "mamba", or whatever they will call themselves next week) and Yamanba, some girls with very deep tans will think of themselves as Ganguro and not Yamanba, while some other girls with only light tans will be proud to call themselves Yamanba. But general consensus is that Yamamba are the outrageous ones, and Ganguro are the "tame" ones. The problem is that not everyone agrees on what's tame and what's outrageous ;) cave 07:16, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Picture

message: Read the "GALS! Manga" section.  This doesn't make any sense to a native English speaker.  i can't even tell if this is vandalism or just wreally, wreally poowr Engrish.  That's how bad it is. ike9898 04:09, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: GALS! Manga

message: I have not deleted anything from this page before (as the above editor complained about) but this basically does not belong in the article. It is a cultural phenomenon that is, like any other cultural phenomenon, bound to be portrayed on television, in books, and in pictures. The information adds nothing to the article. Did you add a list of "anime characters who wear kimonos"? Dekimasu 03:58, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: WHY is there a list of anime characters here?

message: The section has been bothering me for quite a while. I note that (from Wikipedia_talk:Trivia):
That should be required reading for anyone participating in this debate. What's said there about Marduk could apply to just about any other article about a deity or other mythological figure: 
:*Osiris: "In the movie Hedwig and the Angry Inch, Hedwig's song "Origin of Love" mentions Osiris"; 
:*Apollo: "The original classic 1978 Battlestar Galactia series. The main character of the show was called Apollo. Who was an ace Viper pilot (space fighter planes seen throughout the series) and the Captain and strike leader of Galactica's Blue Squadron."
:*Quetzalcoatl: "In the computer game Rise of Legends, there is a playable race called Cuotl. There are also air units in this race's army called 'Quetzals'."
:Etc, etc, etc, by way of Kokopelli, Ozymandias, Sigurd, King Arthur... (the list goes on). Adopting the Marduk solution (wiping it all off and depositing it on Marduk in popular culture) as general practice would enable such articles to give a much better impression (seriousness, rigor, perspective) than they do at the moment. Bolivian Unicyclist 12:24, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a tenable solution. But, then, this is an encyclopedia, not an indiscriminate collection of information. I think editors are perfectly within their rights to delete random trivia factoids on sight. And I'd caution against avoiding "popular culture" sections altogether; these can be nice additions to articles, provided they are well written, academically sound, and analytical rather than exhaustive. I'm currently reading a book on Jeki la Njambè (sadly, we have no article yet), an oral epic of the Duala people of Cameroon, and the author devotes quite a few pages to interpretations in Cameroonian popular culture. So I guess I'm trying to say: If you've got something intelligent to say about Fujin in popular culture, say it. If all you have is the fact that a character in Final Fantasy VIII is named Fujin, keep it to yourself or put it in the Fujin (Final Fantasy character) article. But ghettoizing these sections to X in popular culture is akin to sweeping the dust under the rug. — BrianSmithson 13:04, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed popular culture section

message: I agree with the move to merge the Yamanba article into the Ganguro one.  It seems to be just an extreme version of the same trend. -Timzor 18:17, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I intend to finish the yamanba-ganguro merge soon and I will attempt to clean up misunderstandings within this article as well. I don't mean to sound rude, but I would like to ask that editors rigorously source their additions to this article. Most of the problems here seem to have come from OR additions by editors without direct experience of Japanese society. Dekimasu 17:55, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Yamanba]]