Talk:Gangs in the United Kingdom

message: The sentence in the introduction: 
capeside
"Glasgow in Scotland also has a historical gang culture with the city having 6 times as many teenage gangs as London, which has ten times the population, per capita" 
doesn't read well. I'd suggest:
"Glasgow in Scotland also has a historical gang culture. Though the city has a tenth of London's population, it has 6 times as many teenage gangs per capita" 
I'm not sure if the claim is even true, but as it stands it's just clumsily worded.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.194.218.109 (talk) 06:58, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Poorly worded sentence

message: Was thinking it might be worth breaking down into for example "Drug Gangs", "Street Gangs", "Organised Crime Groups", the latter would be a cach all for things such as the Turkish-Kurdish crime groups, Asian heroin dealing networks, tradional crime families and people such as Curtis Warren - most of these have their own pages so it would link to them. Also is Bristol relevant? The bit about the Aggi crew could go under the "Drug Gangs" header, Glasgow and London under street gangs, Manchester's main ones i always fort was more Drug Gang types and Liverpools more organised??
I suppose the lines are very blurred anyways and some organisations can have all various elements within it. OSGSSS (talk) 00:08, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Template of Page

message: Have managed to add in all the points on errors now into the main article OSGSSS (talk) 23:50, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Errors minor and major

message: *For those interested, a WikiProject regarding crime in Great Britain has been proposed. MadMax 19:16, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[User:Lucy-marie/WikiProject British Crime|WikiProject British Crime]]

message: I think the above cities (INCLUDING GLASGOW) should have a sub article about them in the page, Birmingham, Sheffield Newcastle and Glasgow as all 4 have or had a high concentration of gang activity.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.140.172.60 (talk) 10:32, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I created a Birmingham and Belfast section. Obviously, we don't need to include every town and city in the UK in the 'Gangs in major urban centres' section - only those that really stand out as hotbeds for gang activity or have notable historic association with gangs. If you think Sheffield and Newcastle fit the bill, you're welcome to include them 77.99.12.140 (talk) 03:56, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Sheffield? Newcsatle? Birmingham?

message: Why is Glasgow missing from this list?
The gangs of Glasgow is a very important part of it's history, the formation of the world's oldest Police force, ethnicity similar to American gangs and ideology conflicts. I actually think it has the potential to be an article itself.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.23.134.105 (talk) 20:53, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Glasgow?

message: I feel the Gangs in England page should be deleted. I also feel that a section names European Gangs should be added to the wikipedia article named "gang". It can draw upon the new research on European gangs, why there has been a denial of gangs existing in the UK and Europe, a history observing the various youth sub-cultures that were ganglike but never referred to as gangs (Teddy Boys for examnple).
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.71.24.81 (talk) 
:I disagree.  There's more that enough material to have its own article.
:-- Randy2063 16:36, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. gangs by nature are changing organizations. their discussion is best suited for the newscasts.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dk pdx (talk • contribs) 01:22, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Deletion

message: This article, in my opinion, is written up by only one website community that may not have all the facts. We need:
#Sources
#Government figures
#News reports
#Maybe a picture
#Crime studies
I'm doing research at the University of Wales into Gang crime, but there is only so much I know... HawkerTyphoon 02:42, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: References

message: ive started to add to the sections of this page with liverpool, manchester and bristol. however, i only have limited knowledge on these areas and so someone from these areas in the know should contribute further. im based in london but dont really have time to add to the london section because its a large complex area with many notable incidences of gang violence to mention in comparison to bristol/liverpool/manchester. 
also how exactly do copywrite laws work because wikipedia said dont use things from observe without persmission. i mentioned what was in the article but did not copy what they had written. also i thought reproduction of literature was ok so long as it was properly referenced, can someone help me on this because i am unsure about how that sort of thing works on the internet
* The copyright information for Wikipedia is long and complicated  --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyrights . My comment on Copying things from The Observer was placed because the information there at that time was from The Observer, word for wor.d AFAIK, reproduction of literature is OK, as long as the literature is not copyrighted. text from The Observer is generally copyrighted either to the newspaper itself, or to the writer. Small quotes are generally acceptable, however large sections of text are not. I try and use 5% of the article maximum, although I'm not sure of the copyright law on this. As for referencing, I use the Harvard Referencing System - Long and complicated. Again, check Wikipedia Help for this info. 
P.S. try and keep wikipedia as Neutral as possible. Don't worry too much about this though; other people will make adjustments as they see fit - that's what wikipedia is all about!
Anymore questions, ask me! HawkerTyphoon 18:27, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  gangs in england 

message: It has been discovered over the last 2 years in the UK that Vietnamese criminals are using ordinary houses to grow cannabis plants commercially under artificial growing conditions. The enterprise is now almost exclusively Vietnamese. Young illegal immigrants are smuggled from Vietnam to serve as 'gardeners' in these enterprises. The Vietnamese use, for example, Vietnamese nail parlours that have sprang up all over UK towns and cities, as fronts for their unlawful enterprises, with young innocent looking women sent out to rent houses from unsuspecting landlords. Recently, a combined Police effort to crack down on these enterprises, was launched in the form of Operation Keymer.
194.60.106.5 10:17, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vietnamese Criminal Activities in the UK 

message: It seems very few people contributing to this do not know anything about the current situation. All the people complaining about one sided-ness and neutrality etc.. the "academics" the almighty "gods" of wikipedia who look down upon those like a teacher punishing a child of incorrect pronunciation should shut the fuck up and leave the topic to those who are experts in the field. As with all speciality topics experts should be sought for the material displayed. Views such as those of "says who?" are very bias, stereotyping and ignorant.
Unless you have a genuine knowledge of the subject, keep your useless opinions to yourselves. I am by no means an expert and probably am somewhat as Naive as the "says who" guy. But i am open minded and would really appreciate some expert input from those who really know.
However condescending the "almighty gods" of wikipedia may seem their goal is the same. Regardless of an individuals expertise, proper grammatical usage and punctuation are imposed for the receptiveness of anyone using wikipedia. Articles need structure. You cannot take a whole bunch of statistics and slap them wherever you like on a page. Also, you cannot make statements without any evidential source. I do have to agree with some of the points made by the "says who?" person. The whole page is written in a completely bias format which strives to make points like current gangs in England are 'more violent than their predecesors' and essentially should be feared. The page is obviously referring to Streetgangs, and not gangs in general. As mentioned on this page gang activity from foreign nations practically dominates this country nowadays with the expansion of the EU amoungst other things. They are the ones profiting from drug dealers on the street, they are the ones who take home the big bucks (Tony Thompson - GANGS 2004). We definitly need to be clear on the level on gangs we are referring to here.
Its foolish to compare gangs like the Krays to streetgangs, which is probably why the information on this page needs to be re-written into a British Streetgangs article. I myself am no expert on the subject, and it would obviously take people from across the nation to give an accurate depiction on specific areas. I do know however that much of whats reported in the media reflects common traits of US streetgangs. I do not think it is ignorant to say that kids are assimilating whats exposed to them through popular media channels - especially when you have groups in B'ham and Manchester calling themselves Crips and Bloods and dressing in Los Angeles based gang attire. It is my view that many of the people editing this page are less interested in creating a neutral informative article, and more interested in portraying a false image of streetgangs in our society.
The Manchester gangs representing Crip and Blood wasn't a portrayal because of the media. The Doddingtons, Longsight, Pitbulls, OT and various other gangs were already formed and then made legitimate contact with Los Angeles gang members. Some of the contact came from British guys going over to LA and vice versa. There's news reports and sources for this online, it also happened in London with a British guy who went to America, joined up with the UBN and then taught their principles to gang members in London under the guise of being a youth worker. 
I can't remember what gang it started with in Manchester but they made legit contact with LA gang members and got the green light to represent their alliance. I think it was one of the Crip sets. Their rivals then started flagging Blood to contradict them and it spiraled from there. 
I'm not sure exactly WHY they did it, I think they were doing business together. 
Either way, it's important to note that while many of the younger and newer gangs flagging Crip and Blood haven't got any contact with actual sets, they usually do it to contradict their rivals, who either do have that contact OR were contradicting a set that did. It's also relevant that gangs didn't just pop up and decide "We're Bloods", they were already gangs that then decided to adopt elements of that. 
Another important aspect is that just because a gang flags colours doesn't mean they are doing it to emulate American gangs. Gangs in the UK have worn bandannas and colours as identifiers from the Middle Ages (and probably before) to the fucking 1900s and all that time inbetween. Look at the Scuttlers, the Mohocks, the Peaky Blinders, Penny Mobs and countless more who did that.  
When you're in a fight with a gang of people and you are all wearing the exact same clothes (all black tracksuits and hoodies) then you need something to seperate you to tell the difference. So a coloured rag helps that. Also, the naming conventions are very different in the UK to the US and in the UK often reference their colour as their gang name, so "Green Gang" or "Grey Gang" etc.
86.2.213.86 (talk) 15:54, 21 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page in Question 

message: I think that this article should be merged into gang. My reasoning for this is that currently the gang article does not have any information on gangs outside the united states - but you'll see that some of the sources these articles use are very simmilar (for example the source from the first paragraph is also on the gang article). --danielfolsom 01:17, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I also think that by merging - this article can really be improved. Right now it's really not up to par - sources are at the bottom of sections, there are strange paragraphs and paragraph spacing that has gone unnoticed. Frankly by moving it into Gangs editors can work on the sources and we can remove the extras - it'd bring a spark to the content.--danielfolsom 01:23, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm gonna go ahead and remove the copyright violations and do some other cleanup --danielfolsom 01:24, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Sweet - there's actually a small deal going on in the gang page (a new editor is adding stuff that is content fine, but needs to be made ... encyclopedic like), but once that's done I'll merge.--danielfolsom 19:55, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I think it's to be avoided - one of the problems with this article is that it has unsourced additions such as "they're especially prevalent in...." and then list cities. If we were to list every city that gangs were in then it'd be a ridiculously long article - sorry it's taking me so long on this by the way - I have like twenty things on my plate, and I think I'll need some help in cleaning this article up (and it does need major clean up) and adding information to it before we move it in.--danielfolsom 17:55, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Oh - yeah I agree completely, again sorry it's taking me so long.--danielfolsom 18:55, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge

message: I find it quite strange that it has been said views where people seem to be "bigging up" their own area have been removed yet they seem present still. The Manchester section in particular I found quite strange considering it mostly only focused on areas like Moss Side and Cheetham Hill, and it didn't mention Yardies and things such as the Hacienda night club. Also I found it quite strange that there was no mention of Chris Little, who is one of the most notorious Manchester gangsters, there's even a book focused mainly on him.
Perhaps because this is focusing more on "street gangs" rather than more organised criminals/groups such as Chris Little and the Salford lot. Although the Liverpool gangs mentioned on the page are lesss street based and of a more organised nature. 80.193.44.19 10:25, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Biased

message: This article is a mess. First off, all statements must to be verifiable and referenced by reliable sources (see WP:CITE for more info.), or they will be removed, nothing libelous is allowed here. This article is also not the place for adding 'gang' names or slang terms, so unless they are notable in their own right, they may be removed.  Sue Wallace 18:52, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Mess

message: Hehehe @ Sue. Facts.....put people in prison girl, Being a dicky bird can get you killed.. ;)
I agree we should trash the article and start a new one entitled ...'American-Style Street Gangs in England'.
Dang!!! gotta go....I'm on probation.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.192.177.148 (talk) 16:59, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, I noticed you have put a lot of effort into this, and you've added cites, so thats good, hopefully we can help clean the article up a little bit.  Unfortunately this article sometimes attracts editors who just want to glorify gangs or add un-encyclopedic details (and this will be deleted anyway).  We all have to remember to keep the language neutral so that people in other countries will be able to understand it.  I agree the title could be a little more specific.  Is this article about 'street gangs' that are a petty criminal nuisance in neighbourhoods or is it about much more sophisticated underworld networks?  Sue Wallace 22:11, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

text: I don't think this article is going to be able to include all citable gang activity in the whole of the UK past and present, including going into specific cases also.  It will be far too long. It needs cropping as it is.  I was thinking of dividing it, I don't know if there is enough notable info to do it, but say an article on Gangs of Liverpool, a separate article for Gangs of London, Gangs of Manchester etc. etc. or something like that, more specific.  What do other people think?  If it stays as Gangs of UK it will have to have much smaller sections per area, most of the info that has been added will have to be cropped, esp. in Liverpool and Manchester, which is at the moment very lengthy already. Sue Wallace (talk) 01:12, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Cool, let me go ask an admin what he thinks about dividing the article up. Sue Wallace (talk) 01:58, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Sue asked my opinion; let's improve the article we have before splitting it into subarticles. There is quite a lot of scope for trimming it for ease of reading and style. I may have a go at this myself if I have time. --John (talk) 02:33, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

text: I was looking at the Gangs in the United States of America I think this article will probably need to follow that style, ie like a general overview, or it will be just too big.  Maybe specific cases like John Hasse mentioned above if their notable enough can have their own article? Sue Wallace (talk) 18:01, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm not saying it has to be exactly like that, tbh I haven't got a clue about gangs I only came on here to add cites and a little tidy up.  If you look on Wikipedia:WikiProject British crime and scroll down there is a list of sub categories that a lot of the excess of this article can be put into? Sue Wallace (talk) 18:29, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Fixed. Don't just try saying my account should be deleted because I remove POV nonsense from what was a hugely biased article. There was no need to add anything to the article as it was jam-packed full of crap so it needed cleanup which in this case meant deleting alot of it. ┌Joshii┐└chat┘ 14:40, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

text: diff. -Unpopular Opinion (talk · contribs) 18:42, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

text: Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. GaneshBhakt (talk) 07:46, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

text: , need a more reliable source than a google sites page--Jac16888 Talk 00:01, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: deffo messed up

message: Please can editors not copy paste work direct from other websites it is not allowed, please see Wikipedia:Copyright violations for guidelines. Thanks Sue Wallace (talk) 15:29, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Copyright violations

message: I see the user 'Joshii' allegedly from Manchester has completely destroyed the article rather than selectively edited it. In fact the user stated. "delete as much crap as I can"
I think personally your account should be deleted asap. You have not added anything you have contributed nothing. Typical plastic Manc. 92.234.248.31 (talk) 12:51, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed. Don't just try saying my account should be deleted because I remove POV nonsense from what was a hugely biased article. There was no need to add anything to the article as it was jam-packed full of crap so it needed cleanup which in this case meant deleting alot of it. ┌Joshii┐└chat┘ 14:40, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism

message: Page is looking better than it has for some time, nice and concise Englandgangs (talk) 19:12, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Like the new look 

message: Update for the article on Gangs in England under the liverpool section - Tuesday, 16 December 2008 saw Sean Merce convicted of the murder of Rhys Jones. Article  is a good reference.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Toonwhitters (talk • contribs) 
: diff. -Unpopular Opinion (talk · contribs) 18:42, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  {{tlx|editsemiprotected}} 

message: Montemanm1 (talk) 18:52, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. GaneshBhakt (talk) 07:46, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request from Montemanm1, 15 June 2011 

message: Where has the Birmingham Section gone?? Surely this has is quite an important story to tell?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.197.127.191 (talk) 06:29, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Birmingham 

message: London asian pakistani gang called PAKI PANTHERS well known in waltham forest and newham East london
https://sites.google.com/site/londonstreetgangs/gang-lists/east-london-gangs/paki-panthers
Nextman786 (talk) 15:39, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: , need a more reliable source than a google sites page--Jac16888 Talk 00:01, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request on 23 June 2012 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I edited the part that says there was headlines of gun crime in the early 20th century when it clearly means early 21st and it was reverted and I was told to stop being a vandal. 
I'm fairly sure it's a typo because the early 20th Century means the 1900s and yet the references later on about gun crime pertain to the 21st century. 86.2.213.86 (talk) 16:00, 21 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  21st Century NOT 20th Century. 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: "It has been suggested that the rise in Glasgow gangs from the 1850s was a result of an influx in Irish immigration" By whom? The source provided is extremely poor; and this risks being xenophobic. It is certainly true that some of the gangs had religious divides: e.g. "Norman Conks" (Catholic) and "Calton Tongs" (catholic) vs "Billy Boys" (Protestant) but I don't think you can conflate the immigration of Irish people with increased gang warfare without providing very good sources.  The Irish were, historically, often blamed for the social problems of Glasgow, and before them the Highlanders were blamed: but you can't support/argue these things without giving a detailed source. Therefore, I would ask someone to remove this sentence.
reference/citation number 69 to the Glasgow Herald is broken, I kid you not. Many thanks, and forgive me for this - I hope it doesn't appear to be a diatribe,
EcheveriaJ (talk) 19:12, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Glasgow 

message: Greek 79.166.151.102 (talk) 20:35, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Greece 

message: Information 77.101.165.132 (talk) 15:54, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  The gang violence in Britain