Talk:Yankee Doodle

message: The entry states:
"During the aftermath of the Siege of Yorktown, the surrendering British soldiers looked only at the French soldiers present, refusing to pay the American soldiers any heed. The Marquis de Lafayette was outraged, and ordered his band to play "Yankee Doodle" in response to taunt the British"
It gives a link to a PBS site.  The PBS site does not support this claim.  Instead, it says this
"Contemporary accounts are certain, however, of the importance "Yankee Doodle" had in the ceremony. Henry Knox, Washington's chief of artillery, says that the British band was specifically not allowed to play the song. The Marquis de Lafayette writes that the French army played the song to "discomfort" the British as they marched from the fort between the French and Americans." https://www.pbs.org/ktca/liberty/popup_songs.html
Please, correct the erroneous claim!Mwidunn (talk) 01:06, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Claim is not supported

message: I believe there are other verses to this song, one particularly concerns connections to Cape Cod. talking about going to Aunt Hettie's house and the house of Grandma Chase. Aunt Hettie may have been Mehitable Crosby Nickerson of Orleans and Grandma Chase may have been the mother of Ebenezer Chase of Harwich or Dennis, who was one of the two fifers from Cape Cod who served in the Revolutionary War. Does anybody know the words to this verse? I believe it was used during the bicentennial by members of the Cape Cod Militia. Thanks, Gail Nickerson
----
Here are lyrics that include the word "macaroni" in the song "Yankee Doodle"
  Yankee Doodle came to town,
  A-ridin' on a pony;
  stuck a feather in his hat
  and called it macaroni.
  Yankee Doodle keep it up,
  Yankee Doodle Dandy;
  Mind the music and the steps
  And with the girls be handy.
  Father and I went down to camp,
  Along with Cap'n Goodwin;
  The men and boys all stood around
  As thick as hasty puddin'.
  Yankee Doodle keep it up,
  Yankee Doodle Dandy;
  Mind the music and the steps
  And with the girls be handy.
Interestingly, the Wikipedia Yankee Doodle article linked to from the Wikipedia Macaroni article does not mention this version of these lyrics. LarryW 02:54, 3 Aug 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: Until today.... -- Bevo 03:58, 26 Aug 2003 (UTC)
replies: text:  I can't find a reference, but I recollect reading that "macaroni" was soldier's slang for the gold braid on officer's uniforms of the period.  Makes more sense in this context - Yankee Doodle doesn't have a real uniform with gold braid, just a feather in his cap.  Makes more sense gramatically too if macaroni is a specific object rather than a fashion.  Toiyabe 23:15, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Orphaned content

message: It looks like much of this article was copied from The Straight Dope, including the typo of "larde" for "large", which I have just corrected.  Is there a risk of copyright violation here?
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/myankeedoodle.html
Jeffr 14:01, May 27, 2005 (UTC)
No  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.63.188.33 (talk) 19:59, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Content  copied from Straight Dope? 

message: According to "Merriam-Webster's Word of the Day" [(c) 2006 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated] :
(paraphrased) The 2nd, obsolete meaning of macaroni was " a) a member of a class of traveled young Englishmen of the late
18th and early 19th centuries who affected foreign ways;  b) an affected young man : fop".
Quote:
     "As you may have suspected, the "macaroni" in the song "Yankee Doodle"
     is not the familiar food. The feather in Yankee Doodle's cap
     apparently makes him a macaroni in the now rare "fop" or "dandy"
     sense. The sense appears to have originated with a club established in
     London by a group of young, well-traveled Englishmen in the 1760s. The
     founders prided themselves on their appearance, sense of style, and
     manners, and they chose the name Macaroni Club to indicate their
     worldliness. Because macaroni was, at the time, a new and rather
     exotic food in England, the name was meant to demonstrate how stylish
     the club's members were. The members were themselves called
     "macaronis," and eventually "macaroni" became synonymous with "dandy"
     and "fop."
I'd say the statement in the article that reads "The joke being that the Yankees are stupid enough to believe that a feather in the hat is sufficiently spiffy to gain entry to Macaroni." is just another example of guesses and theories presented as fact on Wikipedia... (Note in the quote above how professional authors _qualify_ their statements.)
p.s. Any other references besides the Library of Congress webpage on whether it's  "Cap'n Goodwin" or "Captin Good'in" ?
- Libertas 04:47, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: About Macaroni

message: Шизомби 04:38, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: More regarding the history

message: The Full House reference looks bogus.  I don't think there was a "Derek" on the show, and those are just the lyrics to Yankee Doodle Dandy.  Also, the reference to Barney is odd.  Cleanup? Bigmac31 15:54, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Full House" reference & Barney?  Vandalism? 

message: By an incredible quirk of fate, I saw the Full House episode alluded to.  It has to do with a patriotic school show put on my Michelle's school (Mary Kate/Ashley).  It is of course too cute.  One of her schoolmates sings "Yankee Doodle Dandy."  But still, that's it.  He just sings that song.  The notes about Barney and Roger Ramjet are ok because they DID appropriate the melody for their themes.  But this one is still spurious.   Bigmac31 17:01, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Full House again 

message: The way I learned the refrain in kindergarten was:
:Yankee Doodle ha ha ha!
:Yankee Doodle dandy,
:All the lassies are so sweet,
:As sweet as sugar candy.
(Whoever thought that one up had a filthy mind.)  Kostaki mou 02:40, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm too dense to see it... Doops |  talk 04:59, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I refer to "ha ha ha" instead of "keep it up!"  Kostaki mou 02:43, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Children's version 

message: The song Yankee Doodle Dandy was first written at Fort Crailo, in what is today the city of Rensselaer, New York.  Today Fort Crailo is on both the state and national historic registers for that very reason.  It was written as an insult during the French and Indian Wars by the local Dutch-decendents about the Connecticut militia that came up to be stationed at Fort Crailo.  This is fact, and should be added to this article.  I know that Connecticut has a long history with being associated with "Yankee" but its my belief that this shouldnt be an article labelled as being part of the wikiproject-Connecticut seeing as how the song wasnt written in Ct. and Yankee now means anyone from the northern US or even from anywhere in the US and not just someone from Ct.  I feel it takes away a piece of history and pride of NY and of Fort Crailo.Camelbinky 12:54, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What's the evidence in support of that claim? Baseball Bugs 12:58, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

text: One reason that its part of wikiproject-Connecticut is because its the state song. That's usually justification enough.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.67.97.194 (talk) 16:04, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Check the article on Fort Crailo and History of Albany, New York. Go to google or google books and check for "yankee doodle house" "yankee doodle dandy" or "fort crailo" and you will probably find more independent sources for Fort Crailo being the place of origin for the song than any other theory on this page.Camelbinky (talk) 06:35, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fort Crailo 

message: I am all for the post which consists with the topic macaroni and the macaroni club,for I too have read about the dealings with the exotic ffod thing.
The Feather is quite important and everyone has perhaps worn one i definetly agree with also, Though for the The History Buffing isn't also a little bit about heritage and Old Ancient values.
There was a King whom Invented this Feather wearing and perhaps had something to do with his female and then again maybe it wasn't about her.
A Dandy for sure wore those excellent clothing apparel and huge top hats, and it is i think a mixture of speaking such as Hello Daddy, responce how is everything . responce Everything is just Dandy.
Then it was the son's turn; perhaps in a different tune
The Doodle perhaps may be a recognition of doing it right and not so much as of a clown or fool type.
For insteance a Yankee a grouping of, in wich were allowed to do something by approval this was the attraction of a personage whom asked for obedience and was refered to get with this answer.YES AND KEEP IT Y-AN-KEE perhaps came from each other making fun of each other through time perhasp cashual.
The British Brigades did play the Tune in Memory and while doing stayed close to the rear for the aprouch was silent but deadly and as when the Lance was then used for qietness as well.
The tune now may be heard with some formation a beep or fol.
a lance also may be within the folding of something wich was used though now is used in the position of the pole of lance and clled perhaps a flag , the lance when gather round about and when the sun gleems from it puts a light into the folded flag , when the proportion is almost tucked the Lanceibg is then within brought back and stabled to an upright position.
God Day 6:10 P.M. E.S.T. David George DeLancey (talk) 22:10, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Try again, in English. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 22:19, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Have no clue

message: Flagged since Jan 2009, no obvious source.
During the American Civil War, Southerners added some new lines of their own:
:Yankee Doodle went to town
:A-riding on a pony
:Stuck a feather in his hat
:And called it macaroni.
:Chorus:
:Yankee Doodle, keep it up
:Yankee Doodle dandy
:Mind the music and the step
:And with the girls be handy.
:Father and I went down to camp
:Along with Captain Gooding
:And there were all the men and boys
:As thick as hasty pudding.
:Chorus
:There was Captain Washington
:Upon a slapping stallion
:A-giving orders to his men
:I guess there was a million.
:Chorus
- sinneed (talk) 22:06, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chopped Civil war bit 

message: "such a diminutive fellow would want to take on Lil, until Pete 'yanked his tool ..." - "Lady Lil" from journalist Eugene Field (1850-95) or "oral tradition". - Ronald L. Baker, "Lady Lil and Pisspot Pete." Journal of American Folklore, 1987. <jstor.org http://www.jstor.org/pss/540921>—Preceding unsigned comment added by Mbhiii (talk • contribs) 20:51, 11 September 2009
:*This just seems random vulgarity.  Is there a point here?- sinneed (talk) 21:16, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Vulgarities are expressed in dizzying arrays of possibilities, for instance "verb a noun." Noun=doodle is established already. Verb=yank is demonstrated above. Therefore "yank a doodle" is just as possible a vulgar expression as "pull a pud" (the former gets 3 times the Google hits as the latter). MBHiii (talk) 21:43, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Then please don't.  wp:talk - This is not for general discussion of language peculiarities.  Either the published wp:Reliable sources will have already reached the conclusion or it doesn't matter to WP.  Please focus on the content.- sinneed (talk) 04:11, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  diminutive fellow 

message: The Carrie Rehkopf version of the song available on the page is quite musical, but seems to be nonstandard. In the chorus, the 7th note of the scale is lowered, effectively modulating to the subdominant. I've never heard this done before, and it doesn't agree with the sheet music shown on the page.
-- Andrew Myers (talk) 22:55, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sample media is not the standard version of the tune 

message: Here are two verses I learned as a teenager, that were claimed to date from the Revolutionary War era:
::Yankee Doodle went to town,
::And climbed upon a steeple,
::Sat up there the live-long day,
::And pissed all over the people.
::Yankee Doodle went to sea,
::Aboard a Cutty clipper,
::Filled his ass with broken glass,
::And circumcised the skipper.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.5.11.63 (talk) 02:49, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Dirty" verses 

message: Is this an assumption made by the contributor? 
"The Macaronis adopted feminine mannerisms, and the men were deemed 'effeminate.' Thus, the British were insinuating that the colonists were womanish and not very masculine[6]."
I read this on a website:                       
"The Macaroni wig was an extreme fashion in the 1770s and became contemporary slang for foppishness. The implication of the verse was therefore probably that the Yankees were so unsophisticated that they thought simply sticking a feather in a cap would make them the height of fashion." If this is correct, then the British were insinuating that the Americans were country bumpkins who didn't understand European fashion, not that the British saw americans as feminine/woman-like. 
Also: "Jan-Kees": dutch word for New Englanders moving into Dutch-settled land ----- Yankee = "yancey" native american word for white man  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.129.48.229 (talk) 10:05, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  feminine Americans ? 

message: I must apologise for just dropping in like this but I was referring to " Yankee Doodle Dandies " and linking to this thread in an email and I think that it is worthwhile encouraging those researching it to consider this angle. The common head gear of sailors, poor colonials and slaves in America were various varieties of woolen cap especially Monmouth Caps which were manufactured in bulk for export e.g. Washington ordered them for his slaves. The gist of the argument is that when the colonial proprietors etc wanted to raise support amongst those not due to be made to be taxpayers they came up with the idea that this common headgear of poorer people and slaves was the equivalent of the woolen hat bestowed upon a freed slave in ancient Roman and Greek ceremonies, and presumeably paraded around therein on poles thus the popular symbol was born of Republican Liberty. Many people sported caps which they may have made themselves but were after a pattern called a " Welsh Wig " which was the sort of thing a peasant or sailor with access to short lengths of threads might make : loose ends stuck out of the cap all over it and hence the argument that this was akin to the wigs worn by the Macaroni or rather by British aristocratic officers who were thus mocked as effeminate in contrast to the sturdy colonials who lived in the rough and fought their own battles " like real men." These in turn may have had feathers stuck in them by surreptitious way of proclaiming to the British forces that the people sporting them counted themselves to be natives - as they did in the Boston Tea Party. Nice theory if anybody can find some contemporary evidence : there certainly are portraits of the original American revolutionary leaders sporting woolly hats and poles ... e.g. the engrosser of the Declaration of Independence Timothy Matlack is depicted by Charles Wilson Peale with the pole and cap http://www.calligraphersguild.org/penmen.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Willson_Peale ... but not a Welsh Wig - http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/tricorne.htm - see illustration near bottom - http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/images/H-Thrum.jpg - then stick a feather in it - and imagine these thrum caps made to the French Canadian ' Voyageur ' pattern too perhaps - http://sallypointer.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=41&products_id=270&osCsid=ae96c611d6ba1d4e6effa3583cde113a  -  http://sallypointer.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=41&products_id=266 - and have an interesting discussion DaiSaw (talk) 12:09, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Look out for the " Welsh Wig " headgear of American Colonials with feathers stuck in it 

message: Am curious why no mention, or inclusion, of the "Uncle Sam" stanza as mentioned in the Uncle Sam Wikipedia article? 2600:8800:785:8500:C23F:D5FF:FEC4:D51D (talk) 02:19, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Uncle Sam" 

message: I read that this song is an insult to Americans. Would that make this a diss track? Cganuelas (talk) 21:20, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Diss track? 

message: This was the second half of the chorus as I learned it in school.  Any info on this version? Romomusicfan (talk) 09:37, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "All the lassies are so smart / and sweet as sugar candy" 

message: "...well known across western Europe, including England, France, Netherlands, Hungary, and Spain."
Someone correct me if I'm mistaken, but I don't believe Hungary is located in western Europe.
Also, the sentence references as a source another Wikipedia article. 24.62.224.22 (talk) 04:06, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Geographical Matter