Talk:Tickling/Tickle torture debate

message: Does anyone know if the information in this article about tickling as a form of torture is true? It seems a bit far-fetched. I have already removed the reference to tickling as a form of execution. Rls 18:22, 2005 Feb 17 (UTC)
:It is true as torture, but not for execution.--Codenamecuckoo 18:55, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Torture

message: With all the talk up above, one possible solution is to make an article about Chinese tickle torture and remove references from this artickle.  The article on Chinese tickle torture could then state the myth/peception/truthfullnes sof it all.  For those who find that thought offensive, remember we have articles on such topics as nigger, cunt, and cracker.  Also, if someone was so violently opposed to the article, they could put it up for VFD as original research.  What do people think?  It is a possible solution. -Husnock 2 July 2005 19:45 (UTC)
:I'm pretty sure that is even worse from the perspective of the original objection.  Making it a seperate article increases its prominence, rather than decreasing it.  If it were VfD'ed, the proposed solution would likely be to merge it back here again. siafu 2 July 2005 20:08 (UTC)
::The whole objection to the concept is that Chinese Tickle Torture is offensive as a racial slur to the Chinese people.  Yet, as stated over and over again, there ia a perception of ti in western society, there are over 350 internet hits, and I have read at least one book (and I recall hearing about it in two others) which mentions it.  I will probably go ahead and make the article for I truely believe a VFD will fail. -Husnock 2 July 2005 20:24 (UTC)
Seens to make sense to just create an article there to discuss whether there is anything to back up the alligation. Seems a pretty rediculous racial slur, I mean, Chinese tickle torture?? Why not simply call it "Tickle torture" and be done with it. It would never even occur to me to think that Chinese tickle torture actually came from China, any more than couch potatoes are actually potatoes. Probably just a tale and they used China because it was far away and couldn't be disproven. It sounds like a joke. In any case, torture clearly has occurred in China at certain times so why should saying that the idea of tickling people into pain came from China be a particularly bad racial slur? --komencanto 6 July 2005 07:43 (UTC)
:It is not a particularly bad racial slur, but it is obviously a slur.  It matters because it is part of a larger problem Western people have with dealing with China.  In itself it would not matter (although as it is a-historic and self-evidently silly it should not be on Wikipedia anyway) but as part of a wider tradition it does.  Mildly.  In the same way if I had a history of repeatedly saying your Mother was a prostitute, a crack-whore, a sufferer of several major learnnig disabilities, you might feel a little sensitive and get upset if one day I merely said she was fat.  I think it would be best to try a VfD.  I think it would go down as it remains based on the memory of one man who can't find a source - this is not good enough I'd guess. Lao Wai 6 July 2005 09:51 (UTC)
::With all respect to your views, you keep on saying "there is no evidence" and "there is no source".  I gave you the source, right down to the title of the book as well as provided the info about the 315 some internet hits.  Its its own article now, so you can try a VFD if you want but there is no denying that the term at least exists (just take a look at the internet).  See Chinese tickle torture for further discussion. -Husnock 6 July 2005 11:29 (UTC)
:I am sorry I must have missed that.  I can't seem to find it on this page either.  Would you mind reproducing it again?  What I do have is you saying "I dont remember exactly where I read it, it was in a book about the Han from when I was in college, cirica 1995."  You cna surely understand why I am unimpressed.  I agree the term exists, but I am not sure it requires a webpage.  More importantly any article should not refer to China at all but make this clear it is like "Dutch courage" - a commonly used ethnic smear with some mild amusement value.  Lao Wai 09:55, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: As far as Chinese tickle torture, it is now its own article, I suggest moving further debates over there.  If you feel strongly about the existence or use of the term, VFD is always available.  However, the amount of internet hits, and the use of this term in the world of BDSM (sorry, but those guys do happen to use it), there is enough I feel to warrant an article.  The one line left in this article makes it clear enough (I feel) that the term Chinese Tickle Torture is a term and not accusing the Chinese of doing anythng or making a racial slur against them. -Husnock 12:28, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: A possible solution

message: Rather than just dumping stuff into the article, perhaps Schultz might like to think about what he is doing and why.  And then perhaps explain it to the rest of us.  What relevance does any of the stuff he has written have to the article?  Where is the evidence for it?  Tickling is a real subject and real people do real research on it.  Is it too much to ask for some evidence of any of these claims? Lao Wai 22:15, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I completely agree with Lao Wai (did we ever think that day would come! :-))  Anyway, the paragraph on unwanted tickling states that tickling is "not involuntary after all" which contradicts every scientific statement on the matter.  If you lightly stroke someone who is ticklish, they will laugh.  It is a fact regardless of wheter or not they like you or not.  As far as "some people get angry when you tickle them", that sounds like massive POV to me.  Also, I reverted the tickle story that was placed on the talk page about someone's sister.  Does that really have anything to do with this article? -Husnock 21:26, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

text: Hey there, Shultz.  We probably were a bit too quick with the reverts.  I reread what you posted again and I kind of get what you're driving at.  I will work on a totaly new section involoving tickling realtionship comparing parent-child, sibling-sibling, stranger-child, and stranger-adult.  Reactions are different, to be sure.  With that said, if you want to put back in your paragraph, I wont revert it.  And, thank goodness...Lao Wai is not an admin! :-)  But, then again, neither I am. -Husnock 22:24, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

text: Where to start.  I have two distinct positions and your problem is that you are confusing them.  The first and obvious one is that Tickle Torture is asinine as anyone who put two minutes of thought into it would realise.  That bird don't fly around here so I rely on my second, fall back, position.  There ain't no evidence of it.  There ain't.  It presents no usefulness as torture as you can simply over come the thought through will power.  You may have seen consenting, trusting adults playing games, but that is a world away from torture.  You cannot be tickled if you do not want to be.  Fear is likely to override ticklishness anyway.  Basic common sense tells us it has never been used as torture and indeed there is no evidence it ever has.  Certainly not in China.  The pre-modern Chinese government is known for torture in the same way Jews are known for being cheap or Blacks for being lazy.  The fact is China has not have a particularly interesting history of torture.  Care to produce any such Chinese sources?  Nor was anyone cut into a thousand pieces - again common sense should tell you that.  Your comments above show why it is a problem.  It is like thinking Jews murder boys and use their blood to make their bread.  Why do you think you think what you do?  I would like to see evidence that the water torture, again another childish Western invention, was ever practiced anywhere.  We have a lot of "I seem to remember in a book I read in college" sources around here.  In the meantime I suggest we keep any mention of China out of this. Lao Wai 14:49, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Speaking of sources... any source for the claim that "you cannot be tickled if you do not want to be"?  I suppose there's always the option of trying to run away, but as it is, based on the current content of the article, this claim is very similar to "you cannot be punched in the arm if you do not want to be".  It may be possible for someone to ignore both sensations; it may be much easier for most people to ignore tickling than a punch.  That doesn't mean that people who react to tickling *want* to react, any more than someone *wants* to say "ow" when they're punched.  So, got anything besides a "basic common sense" source? Jaeger5432 19:29, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unwanted Tickling 

message: http://www.mytickling.com has some great examples of tickling fetish in practice, the site has some free pictures and lots of movie clips for people to get an idea what "tickling fetish" consists of.
Thank you for the consideration in adding this resource to the external links section.
Mts100 21:26, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  A site featuring some examples of modern day tickling fetish in practice