Talk:Baháʼí calendar

message: I know we are not to put up commercial products, but the fist ever Badi Calendar (www.kdkfactory.com/badi) is being published and sold, so I think it has some historical relevancy. What do you say?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.11.191.17 (talk) 08:52, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The book can be treated as a source if someone owns it to reference some specific statements. As or the publishing of the calendar - if there is some scholarly reference on the publishing of the calendar then perhaps it could be mentioned but it will need more than a commercial website claim. Smkolins (talk) 00:15, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Badi Calendar as a product

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thread_title:  [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Time/Assessment|WikiProject Time assessment rating]] comment 

message: Someone has pointed out to me an apparent contradiction in this article.  It states, "Years in the Bahá'í calendar begin at the vernal equinox (usually March 21 in the Gregorian calendar)."  However, definite Gregorian dates are given throughout the article, suggesting that dates do not vary between the two calendars.  If the quoted statement is true, then the Gregorian dates can only be approximate, in which case the article should say so.
I have also been told that dates are calculated using different reference locations, such as Teheran or Haifa, and sometimes from the Gregorian calendar, i.e. the new year always starts on March 21.  Thus, different people are apparently using different dates on the Bahá'í calendar.  Perhaps someone who knows about the Bahá'í calendar could clarify this. -- Nike 05:34, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: My understanding is that the calendar was "set" to Gregorian dates some time after it was originally envisioned (mid-19th century). As such, the exact dates as on the article are correct and fixed (in the eyes of a modern Baha'i). I'm not sure enough to edit the article though, but I'll see if I can find out. -- Tomhab 09:53, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: `Abdu'l-Baha explained the significance of Naw-Ruz in terms of the symbolism of the new life of spring. Baha'u'llah defines Naw-Ruz as the Baha'i day on which the vernal equinox occurs. Thus, even if the equinox should occur just before sunset, that day -- which in the Baha'i calendar began at the moment of sunset on the previous day -- is Naw-Ruz. At present, however, Naw-Ruz is fixed as 21 March for Baha'is in all countries outside the Middle East, regardless of exactly when the equinox occurs. - From Baha'i Encyclopaedia Article by John Walbridge Rick Boatright 14:05, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dates contradiction 

message: Does the Badi` name refer specifically to the 360-day solar calendar?  This should be clarified.  In fact I would prefer to list all three systems right up front, since clearly they are all important.  Are these three the only Bahá'í calendar systems?  — FJ | hello 20:55, May 22, 2005 (UTC)
:I only know of these three calendars for Baha'is. Another may be used by Bayanis (or Azalis). Apart from that , I think its unlikely there are any others (because who else would make one? unless someone had a draft version), but I don't know for sure.
:First off, all three calendars listed below are Badi' calendars, but the last two are the ones followed by Baha'is (known as the two Baha'i calendars). As you will see they're almost identical:
:1. The original Badi calendar first started by the Bab
::I don't know much about this and I think thats true for most Baha'is. I've never seen anything specifically written about it. I believe it was based around the lunar calendar that islam uses.
:2. Confirmed by Baha'u'llah, but revamped somehow (and is definitely fixed to the solar calendar)
::Best resource for this is the Kitab-i-Aqdas. 
:3. Calendar fixed to the gregorian calendar
:Not sure when this happened. It's almost identical to the Aqdas's version except it fixes new year to 21st March rather than the Vernal equinox (20th, 21st, or 22nd of March - most commonly the 21st though).
:From re-reading the Aqdas it appears the original calendar was a little vague about where the intercalary days were so Baha'u'llah offered a solution.
:Anyway, I feel its not appropriate to put up calendar 2 as basically, every day you see on the article is +/- 1 day -- Tomhab 22:54, 22 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Anyway, I've tried to clarify it a bit in the text... knowing my luck I've only made it worse... -- Tomhab 23:06, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

text: Just done a bit more research and it happens that the calendar might have actually been named after Badí', a famous martyr. That would have been only a year before Baha'u'llah made the calendar, so not relevant for the Bab's calendar. Not sure enough about it yet though -- Tomhab 23:42, 22 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name of Bahá'í solar calendar system 

message: Is it true that Bahá'ís place some significance on the day of the month that has the same number as the month in the year, e.g. 4 Azamat (20 May), the fourth day of the fourth month? --Gareth Hughes 5 July 2005 17:04 (UTC)
:Well I never have (and I presume this is the same for all modern Baha'is). Early Baha'is and Babis were rather mystical so they may have in the past, but couldn't say. -- Tomhab 5 July 2005 18:03 (UTC)
:I have also never heard of such a significance being put on the day of the month that has the same number as the day of the year.  -- Jeff3000 July 6, 2005 01:07 (UTC)
Probably a archaic tradition from the early days of the faith.  Zazaban 22:34, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Month days 

message: I just reverted the page to align it again with the established standard Bahá'í calendar spellings (months of the year, days of the week, holy days, etc.).  Again, anyone wanting to change the spellings, please discuss it here first.  Misinformation, intentional or not, gets us nowhere.
Keldan 13:10, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revert re. spellings 

message: Can someone ammend the tables to include the Arabic names in the Arabic script? I would do it but I'm afraid I would make a mistake because I've only taken ARB101, and I'm a little unfamiliar with the wiki text protocol for Arabic. I could figure that part out and do it if someone could point out to me a reference where the names are written in Arabic script. Thanks. LambaJan
I learned today that the Arabic lettering is backwards on the calendar. I'm don't know Arabic myself, but my Arabic friend showed me the letters on the calendar written left to right as English is, not right to left as Arabic is.  As he reading the Arabic it wasn't coming out Nur, for example, but run.  Maybe someone could fix that.  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 164.231.65.28 (talk • contribs) .
:Well, I checked, but everything shows up correctly (Arabic runs right to left).  All I can think is that you and/or your friend may be using browsers that don't support right-to-left text encoding.  Keldan 17:45, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Arabic Script 

message: I know that the Badí' equivalent of A.D. is B.E., but what's the equivalent of B.C.?  I seem to remember encountering B.B.E. (Before the Bahá'í Era) before, but I'm not at all sure. WikiMarshall 18:23, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have never seen the B.B.E. used in any Baha'i literature (and I have not seen anything else that would be equivalent to a BBE).  Usually the Islamic (AH) or the Gregorian (AD) is used to represent dates beforehand.  Since BE is usually just used for intra-Baha'i communication, and is usally always used in addition to the Gregorian date, I don't know if there is much use for the BBE equivalent.  But, BBE is an interesting idea; please do post if you've seen it used anywhere. -- Jeff3000 22:23, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've also never heard of any example that would be the equivalent of BC, BH, or BCE. Cuñado  - Talk 23:43, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, it's a practice I'd like to not see develop. It implies that all time is measured, both forwards and backwards, from a given date. Personally, I don't see the world beginning and ending on 23-May-1844 — I see the world having changed. MARussellPESE 04:19, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  B.B.E.? 

message: Perhaps - but it's more complicated then that - Calendar and Era (and Bahá'í Cycle) are all related and yet different. I think a master page covering all the topics could get complicated and reduce it's usablity in other pages.--Smkolins (talk) 12:54, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Bahá'í Systems of Time Keeping? Zazaban (talk) 22:10, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I suggest merge into Baha'i calendar. Cuñado ☼ - Talk 06:11, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

text: I recommend keeping the current status of these articles. They are related, but different subjects. The article length would suffer as well. Parsa (talk) 22:32, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Bahá'í Era appears to have no information in it that isn't already in this article. The only significant link is from the disambiguation page BE. Baha'i cycle is now redirected to progressive revelation. Hence I suggest replacing with a redirect page. AndrewRT(Talk) 16:21, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  about merge with [[Bahá'í Era]] 

message: The Quran doesnt prohibit intercalation, it prohibits a pre-islam arab practise called Nasi. Infact the Islamic calendar is 
probably the most "intercalatory" of most calendars in use today. It inserts an intercalary day almost every alternate month.
pls see :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercalation_(timekeeping)#Islamic_calendar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasi%27
Nasi was used to change the calendar to accommodate 'war' amongst other things and has nothing to do with intercalation
75.49.251.113 (talk) 00:37, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: This article is not about the Islamic calendar, but the Baha'i calendar, and has no relevance here.  Regards, -- Jeff3000 (talk) 20:31, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The Islamic calendar was abrogated in the Baha'i faith in favor of the Badi calendar, just as the Christian calendar was abrogated in Islam in favor of the Islamic calendar. It's no more contradiction than the dawn of a new day contradicts the existence of the day preceding it, it's a different day altogether. Peter Deer (talk) 20:43, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

text: Interesting, but for inclusion in the article would require citations for such details. But thanks for adding to the discussion. Smkolins (talk) 04:25, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

text: If you have information to add, put it in the article with references. Leaving messages like this is not what the talk page is for. Cuñado ☼ - Talk 21:16, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: But remember that any interpretation of primary source material needs a reliable secondary source that makes that same interpretation or it is considered original research and not allowed.  Also synthesizing material from two sources to make a conclusion that is not made in either source is also considered original research.  Regards, -- Jeff3000 (talk) 22:01, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

text: Wikipedia is not a forum.  It has no room for original research, and it needs secondary sources to interpret primary source material, especially religion.  Regards, -- Jeff3000 (talk) 15:21, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conflict with previous Scripture 

message: Since this is a unique calender there should be links to few websites that sells it. such as badipublishing.com or www.badicalendar.com  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.154.212.139 (talk) 19:30, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: As per Wikipedia policy on external links, links that "sell products or services" should be avoided.  Regards, -- Jeff3000 (talk) 20:23, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: External Links

message: What event in AD 1844 made the Bahai calendar start that year? I shall clarify what I mean with some examples. Anno Domini (Christianity) started when it did due to the Virgin Birth of Jesus Christ, Anno Hegirae (Islam) due to when Muhammad fled Mecca for Medina, Anno Mundi (Judaism) due to an alleged date of Creation, Anno Lucis (Masonic secular calendar) due to another alleged date of Creation contradicting that of Anno Mundi, and Ab Urbe Condita (Ancient Roman secular calendar) due to the founding of the City of Rome. 
What analog to these happened with the Bahai so that this calendar started when it did? I see no mention of the starting event of this calendar in the Article. The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 07:22, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The Declaration of the Báb on evening of May 22rd, 1844 (which Baha'is count as part of May 23rd), was the initiating event and completing the annular cycle meant back-dating the year to March 20th. Also cf the Great Disappointment. The calendar itself wasn't defined until a few years later but it was "rolled back" to start back then. Smkolins (talk) 10:37, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: In that case, there should be a link to the Article to which you directed me in this Article on the Bahai calendar. Perhaps such a link could be part of a New Section on the Declaration of the Bab as the starting event. The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 02:33, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  What event?  

message: I believe the 19 days within a month bear the same names as the months themselves. Does anyone have a source on this? There would therefore be alternate ways to list a date. Thus Sunday, 1st  of August, 2010 could be Jamál, 1 Kamál, 167 or Jamál, Bahá Kamál, 167... not to mention using the year within the Vahid as an alternate to the numbered year (167). - Parsa (talk) 19:26, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I added two sources. - Meauk (talk) 14:10, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Names of days within the month 

message: I'm searching for references. So far I'm finding none. I think baring references that the section would need to be condenced seriously. But I'm looking. Smkolins (talk) 23:44, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Found a couple references but no where near enough to support the extensive claims made. Re-wrote to support actual references from reliable sources. Smkolins (talk) 00:42, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Babi (Bayanic) version of the Calendar section 

message: There have been many reversions of the Babism template, and I wanted the discussion to happen on the talk page.  In most contexts in reliable sources the Babi and Baha'i movements are seen as one movement, and in fact many, but not all, Baha'i concepts have their initial impetus in some Babi concept.  However, those concepts have come to be known and are notable because of the Baha'i expansion, both in terms of usage, as well as others learning about it.  So it provides no helpfulness to the reader, to have both templates on this page.  The concept is known to readers, as is importance in terms of notability simply put because the Baha'is use it.  To have all concepts that are tangentially related to the initial Babi source both is inefficient in that it would tangentially mark a large number of pages with the Babi template, which is disruptive to readability, but more importantly it does not deal with the fact that most academic sources see the Babi-faith as the forerunner of the Baha'i Faith and see them as one, so it's not extra useful to the reader to have both templates.  Warm regards, -- Jeff3000 (talk) 22:55, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: agreed. --Smkolins (talk) 00:47, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Template

message: Should this page not be moved to Badí‘ calendar? Wiki-uk (talk) 11:48, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it's most commonly known as the Baha'i calendar, and Wikipedia naming goes by what is most common.  Regards, -- Jeff3000 (talk) 12:57, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Change title to Badí‘ calendar? 

message: The Holy Days are not an intrinsic part of the calendar, so could stand on their own.Gplittle (talk) 17:11, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree; having a whole bunch of small pages does nothing to improve the readability of the encyclopedia.  If this page was too long, past the normal limits (see Wikipedia:Article_size, then it would make sense to break it up into summary style, but not at the moment.  Regards, -- Jeff3000 (talk) 23:29, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

text: The calendar, and the Holy Days of the Baha'i Faith, are completely different topics... proceeding to split them out to their own page, which can then grow with more content.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gplittle (talk) 19:08, 26 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Propose moving all lists of Holy Days to a new page 

message: There are some points in the article that need clarification. In particular, the section Bahá'í calendar#From Naw-Rúz 2015 begins with: "" Although this is an accurate paraphrase (practically a direct quote) of the source document, it comes across as ludicrous, suggesting that the moment of the equinox is dependent (or "fixed") on geographical location. This not true (see First Point of Aries for explanation).  As explained here: 
That is, what is determined is not the moment of the equinox, but the day of the calendar that spans that moment. Which in this calendar is determined by sunset, which depends on a particular meridian and lattitude.
Another point that needs clarification is the "". This is confusing because First Point of Aries, which determines the vernal equinox, is no longer in the constellation of Aries. ~ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 22:45, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some points re the equinox needing clariification 

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message: The name of the calendar ends with the Arabic "ayin" letter. According to Ayin, in Unicode, the recommended character for the transliteration of ayin is ʿ (U+02BF) "modifier letter left half ring".--Gplittle (talk) 14:56, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi GP. Baha'i orthography notes that Bahai recommendations use a turned comma ('okina). They don't use Semiticist #02BF, and as you note the apostrophe is ambiguous. — kwami (talk) 21:10, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Badí' vs Badíʿ