Talk:The Wheel of Time/Archive 2

message: I'd like to get public comment regarding this projected change before I make it.
I'd like to turn this list into a dry listing of canonical material already released or projected to be released, and include more detail on the following works, as well as hardcover vs. softcover editions and revisions, in a more detailed, separate bibliography page.
*Snow, the prologue to Winter's Heart, is included in the actual book.
*The same applies to Glimmers/Crossroads of Twilight
*I haven't read the New Spring novel yet, but my understanding is that it supercedes the novella in Legends
**The New Spring Novel is a superset of the novella. The novella is really the last few chapters of the novel.
**There are other significant differences between the novel and the novella. In the novella, for example, it is left nebulous whether Moiraine and Siuan are 'pillow-friends' or are just using that as a cover for their hunt for the Dragon Reborn. The novel leaves their relationship in less doubt. Also, in the novella Moiraine at one point specifically remembers the names 'Tam and Kari al'Thor and their son, Rand' from the lists of newborns born around the time of the battle. This was removed from the novel, apparently as Jordan feared it would give the identity of the Dragon Reborn away immediately to those who read New Spring before the main series (although frankly it is obvious from page 1 of Chapter 1 of The Eye of the World who the Dragon Reborn is).--Werthead 22:27, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regarding Books in series (so far): 

message: * I just added the total page numbers of all the paperback editions (hardcover for KoD, since that's all I could find on Amazon).  I'm tempted to turn the whole list into a table so it looks more wiki-like (with the prologue ebooks as footnotes below the table), but I'd like public comment first.  --Gherald 03:45, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Page numbers

message: I think this has become unweildly and started reworking at User:Gherald/wotreferences.  I'm not quite sure of the general flow yet, and there are some details to work out. --Gherald 04:37, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  "References and similarities to other literature, myth and legend" section 

message: How much time has elapsed since the beginning of the Eye of the World and the end of Knife of Dreams?--Moosh88 05:36, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: About 3000 years or so. :) Excluding the prologue, the answer seems to be about 760 days, which is about 25 months. See . Eric119 07:39, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's about two years then... I thought more time had passed like five.--Moosh88 21:16, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think many people feel that way...everything that Rand has accomplished since the Stone of Tear seems a little far-fetched... -- nae'blis (talk) 23:51, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Either the world is really small or Traveling really gets things done quickly. :-) Deco 01:40, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Rand was born on Danu 2 (late 978 NE) - they left in early 998 NE (Winternight), so he was a little over 19 years old, if I can count right tonight. -- nae'blis (talk) 03:26, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Time 

message: The word count listed for Lord of Chaos (153,288) can't possibly be right. If that were the length, it would be far and away the shortest book in the series (other than New Spring). In fact, it's the longest book in the series (at least in terms of pages). I deleted the word count, since it's an obvious and glaring error, but I have no idea what the correct number is, so it's blank for the moment. If anyone has reliable info on word count, that'd be great... Jcb9 05:45, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lord of Chaos Length 

message: Real world info is Mosk the Giant fought Elsbet Queen of All with a lance of fire which could strike anywhere in the world. There was a time when men traveled between the stars and when fire rained from the sky I am sure you can all understand this info is clearly rather near future sounding. Jamhaw 18:22, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Earth

message: How about we make an article on it I have never heard of it before so if anyone has played it or even heard of it before should write an article what was it called? Jamhaw 15:52, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Video Game

message: I think that since Uncyclopedia is hosted on WIkia and since it's a wiki and changable by anyone we should have a link for it. Oh yeah if Uncyclopedia can get a picture I am sure we can. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jamhaw (talk • contribs) # 12:46, 1 June 2006  (UTC)
:Not sure what you're asking for here, do you mean the abbreviated WoT summaries? -- nae'blis (talk) 18:35, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Humour Parody

message: Is it worth mentioning that the names of several of the Forsaken are based on mythological creatures/persons? (Graendal/Grendel from Beowulf, Sammael/Samael the demon lord of old Hebrew legend, etc) Custodes 15:08, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Names of the Forsaken

message: The text states: "The taint quickly overcame Lews Therin and his companions...", when, in fact it drove them mad instantly.  My source is "The World of..."
:I'd say that it did indeed quickly overcome them, then.  -JC 22:18, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Isn't one of the more common themes in the books "The Wheel provides what is needed before we know it is needed"? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.196.97.164 (talk) 03:31, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Small Inaccuracy 

message: The entire "references and similarities" section is entirely void of citations, and looks like original research. Please cite your sources --Samael775 00:59, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: References Please

message: A number of references occur in The Eye of the World, Chapter 4:
* Queen Elizabeth: "Alsbet, queen of all" (changed to Elsbet in later editions)
* Ann Landers: "The Thousand Tales of Anla, the Wise Counselor"
* Mother Theresa: "Materese the Healer"
* John Glenn, The Eagle, Sally Ride or Salyut: "Tell us about Lenn," Egwene called. "How he flew to the moon in the belly of an eagle made of fire. Tell about his daughter Salya walking among the stars."
And several more in The Shadow Rising:
* Mercedes-Benz hood ornament: "A silvery thing in another cabinet, like a three-pointed star inside a circle, was made of no substance she knew; it was softer than metal, scratched and gouged, yet even older than any of the ancient bones. From ten paces she could sense pride and vanity." (Chapter 11, What lies hidden, p. 147)
* Moscow, America, ICBMs, superpowers:  "Did Mosk and Merk really fight with spears of fire, and were they even giants?" (Chapter 20, Winds Rising)
* Gautama Buddha: "Ghoetam under the tree of life" (Chapter 24, Rhuidean, p. 277)
The intended impression is that the world in which the series is set might be our own world at some — probably later — point on The Wheel of Time.
A list of more real-world inspirations can be found in The Wheel of Time FAQ, section 3.
--Samael775 14:21, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: To our world

message: Removed reference to Indian flag in Literary concepts -> Eternity or Infinity motif - Indian flag does not contain the Hindu "Wheel of Law", but is rather a reference to the spinning wheel (i.e. for clothes) that was a symbol of Indian independence. If someone wants to contradict, please explain why. 160.83.32.14 11:05, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Indian flag reference 

message: I have no idea what it was doing up there in the first place; they belong at the bottom, and it was making the article look messy. It would be well replaced with a cover image of some of the books. Battle Ape 12:37, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm the one who originally put template:wotnav next to the TOC, so you know who to blame.  My thinking is the reader should be able to click through to any of the book articles without having to scroll down multiple times (5 in my case) before being presented with a list of links.  See Dune (novel) which has a similar box with a more compact list of books.  If you have suggestions for making sidebar version of wotnav that does not "make the article look messy", that would be fine.  But it seems to me that wotnav in its current state is versatile enough to serve for both sidebar-like navigation and as a footer -- unlike template:lotr, for instance -- and I rather like the economy of it. --Gherald 12:17, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

text: I moved it back to the bottom. Templates belong to the bottom of an article. C Ronald 16:03, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed template from top of page 

message: Red Eagle Entertainment began publication of a Graphic Novel called "Robert Jordan's New Spring".  Red Eagle Entertainment - New Spring
The 'comic books' were of very fine quality and gave vision to the places, people and events in the New Spring novel.  However, after receiving only four issues, I got this email message from the publishers:
(received 6-2-2006)
"Dear New Spring Subscriber:
We hope that you have enjoyed our past issues of Robert Jordan's New Spring comic series.  However, we have some important news to share with you concerning the future availability of this publication.  As you may know, Red Eagle Entertainment is the publisher of New Spring, and is responsible for the printing and distribution of each issue.
The actual production of the New Spring comic series has been overseen by Dabel Brothers Production (DB Pro), who is responsible for the preparation of each issue, along with a team of independent artists, writers and colorists that they hire, supervise and manage.
From the beginning, New Spring has been beset by a series of production setbacks.  Despite repeated efforts by DB Pro to manage these problems, the production delays have continued unabated and Red Eagle did not receive Issue No. 6 when due.  Moreover, all availability targets for the remaining issues in the New Spring series have been missed.  In addition, there have been major changes in the creative team over the past months, causing increased effort to maintain a consistent and quality look for the series.
As the publisher of New Spring, we sincerely apologize for all of these past delays.  Red Eagle has been acutely sensitive to all of the concerns voiced by our direct subscribers, as well as by our retail customers, local comic shops and Diamond Comics, our U.S. distributor for New Spring. 
We agree that these accumulated delays have become unacceptable.  However, our contract for the publication of New Spring does not give Red Eagle the right to complete the New Spring series on its own or in tandem with another production partner.  Moreover, our repeated efforts to reach a meaningful solution with DB Pro have been unsuccessful, as have our discussions with a representative of Robert Jordan.
With no reasonable alternative available, and after considerable reflection, Red Eagle is reluctantly announcing it will cease the publication of New Spring.  While the cancellation of this comic series is a major disappointment for Red Eagle, our real concern is for the many fans around the world that will be deprived of the experience of reading the final installments of the New Spring story.
We truly regret that we do not have the means to provide you with the final episodes of the New Spring comic.  However, we promise you that Red Eagle will continue to vigorously explore any alternatives that will allow the company to complete the series in the soonest timeframe possible.  If these efforts should prove unsuccessful, Red Eagle will announce a refund policy for any of its subscribers who have paid in advance for issues of New Spring that they did not receive.  
Although future events are outside of our control, we remain open to any change in circumstances that may one day permit Red Eagle to complete the New Spring comic at the standards of quality and punctuality that fans of the series deserve.
We thank you for your understanding.
Sincerely,
Red Eagle Entertainment"
While this series hasn't been completed, I certainly think this graphic novel should be included in the Wheel of Time series entry.  What say you?
:Agreed it should be mentioned, but the details should be under the New Spring entry, not the main Wheel of Time page. Mentioning it exists on the main page should be fine. In related news, the New Spring comics will be resuming publication within the next month or two, as Dabel Brothers will be completing the project with their new partners (Marvel Comics) and publishing the graphic novel themselves, with Robert Jordan's blessing. Red Eagle no longer have anything to do with the project.--Werthead 23:49, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Spring - the Graphic Novel 

message: I'm just curious: what is the source of the word counts for the books? I mean, page numbers are easy to come by, but word counts aren't exactly listed on the copyright page. :) RobertM525 19:23, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source of word counts? 

message: Could someone write an article on it I've never played and I can't even find it on Amazon does it even exist. 216.174.135.175 16:29, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you are refering to the table-top roleplaying game based on d20 rules and released by Wizards of the Coast, I doubt it would interest you.  I'm not surprised you can't find it on Amazon.  Based on what I know of pen and paper dungeons and dragons (as opposed to computer RPGs) PNP is not of interest to the general public anymore (if it ever really was).  I think it highly likely that if you had enough experience with D&D to be interested in this game, you wouldn't need much help finding it.  Or put less tactfully, anyone nerd enough to care about playing a tabletop d20 game should know enough to find it. --Gherald 22:53, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was thinking of adding some info on the WoT RPG as, aside from the roleplaying element, there is a significant amount of information in the book that has not appeared elsewhere, even in the Big White Book. There are also city maps for Illian and Tear not seen elsewhere and, in the spin-off Prophecies of the Dragon book, there is also a map of Falme and information on other towns on Toman Head. As for the game itself, Robert Jordan was happy with the finished product but was not able to spare the time need to fact-check the planned expansions, resulting in a few errors creeping into the Prophecies of the Dragon book. After some discussion, Wizards of the Coast agreed not to pursue the project any further. Also, WotC's advertising and marketing for the game was rather low-key and sales were not as high as they should have been. I believe that Wizards' licence for the game lapsed in the last year or two (RJ mentioned it earlier in the year on his blog) and RJ is considering other offers to give the game a new home.--Werthead 23:46, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Great work the article is huge now! All that has to be done now I think would be to get the cover Jamhaw 15:43, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Role Playing game

message: Where did it go I thought it was pretty useful. Jamhaw 15:56, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Humour and pardady

message: In a recent interview with Forbes magazine, Tom Doherty confirmed that they are expecting Robert Jordan to hand in A Memory of Light at the end of 2008 for publication at the start of 2009, taking into account the delays caused by his illness.--Werthead 13:29, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: A Memory of Light: 2009

message: This book was originally published in 1997, not 1998 as was stated in the text. It was re-released ina different cover in 1998, followed by a softcover release in 1999 and then a mass-market paperback (minus the illustrations apart from the maps) in 2000. These are the Orbit UK dates.--Werthead 13:36, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The 1997 date matches my book.  Good work.  --GargoyleMT 22:36, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The World of Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time

message: I just think that in general not enough info is given about the Forsaken's actions in the books, especially not those of Shaidar Haran?, and the guy who's name is Death in the Old Tongue
71.106.236.19 04:45, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Forsaken 

message: Until the very end of the first book it is not confirmed that Rand is the Dragon reborn, & it is only hinted at throughout the book, & as such I believe that 'the Premise' should hold a spoiler tag, or have the final sentence edited;
"His name is Rand al'Thor, and the series chronicles his and his friends' struggles: with international politics, with the One Power, and, of course, against the Shadow itself."
Had I read this article before having read the 1st book of the series, knowing that Rand was the Dragon reborn would have hampered the overall quality of the read of the book. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 144.124.16.28 (talk) 19:48, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spoiler warning for section 'the Premise' 

message: The "Wheel of Time: The Third Age Online" mentioned in the external links section seems to be a fan-based recreation of the world using Neverwinter Nights.  Is that right?  I confused it for some official product.  Is it appropriate to link here?  An initial reading of WP:EL seems to indicate no (the 'symmetrically related' or promotion clauses seem most applicable).  I'm sure the project has plenty of Google mojo (as well as non-Wikipedia outlets) if fans want to find it.  I'd like to remove the URL, but would welcome some feedback.  --GargoyleMT 00:04, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is a fan-made server using Neverwinter Nights. However, it has been officially recognized by Bioware as one of their premier servers. I agree that a link to the forums is not necessary. A single link to the main site, however, is appropriate to this page because it does contain information on The Wheel of Time in and of itself, not exclusively as related to the game, while at the same time providing resource to the largest multi-user Wheel of Time based game of its type. --Ambystoma7729 08:46, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  It has been recognized by Bioware, not Robert Jordan?  If it's not an official product, is the information that it contains accurate?  Is inclusion of information about the Wheel of Time enough to justify an external link (to any site)?  Will users be confused and think the product is official (as I did)?  The clause that I was referring to in WP:EL seems to have gone away, so that's no longer a concern.  --GargoyleMT 20:24, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neverwinter Nights module 

message: There should be links to a lot of other concepts and webpages associated with TWoT in a See also section, such as Aes Sedai, damane, and so on.  --zandperl 20:00, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Internal links 

message: Hey do you think there will be a WoT video game for the consoles? Maybe perhapes a movie?
Moenbro 21:35, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WoT Video Game