Talk:List of baronies in the peerages of Britain and Ireland

message: This page is still enormous. Perhaps List of Baronies in the Peerage of England, List of Lordships of Parliament, List of Baronies in the Peerage of Great Britain and List of Baronies in the Peerage of the United Kingdom would be better? (We can have a link to List of Life Peerages and List of Law Life Peerages in the last of these, as I think adding "hereditary" to the title would make it too long.) Proteus (Talk) 14:22, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: It's all the moderns' fault. If they hadn't created so many UK baronies...Might not be a bad idea though, especially if we ever compile lists of foreign baronies. Mackensen 18:54, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: The split never happened. I think it's still a good idea as even good old Firefox is slow to render this page, and it is a pain using it for reference while working on other articles. I agree with Proteus's suggested titles, except maybe we could have List of hereditary baronies in the United Kingdom if we're worried about title length. JRawle (Talk) 17:55, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with this; Rawle's amendment makes sense, with a redirect from the other. Septentrionalis 15:35, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Split

message: I currently have checked out from a library vol. IX (1936) of The Complete Peerage. I believe it is widely considered to be the foremost reference on the British Peerage; however, there have obviously been developments since the edition that I have been using.
Concerning the Barony of Musgrave: TCP suggests that it was (at the time of publication) possibly extant de jure but unclaimed. The heir at that time was given as Frederick Millbank(e) Davison-Bland (1854–). A quick internet search turns up almost nothing, though. The most comprehensive information that I could find offhand was at http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=syngeplus&id=DF12 .Ardric47 03:00, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: By all means fill them in as you find them, we can always fix it later. We know this page is incomplete, and that it's full of errors, so we all just keep poking at it as we find problems. Mackensen (talk) 03:10, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use of TCP, and a note on the Barony of Musgrave 

message: This entry: 
Baron Botecourt 	1305 	Somerset 	extant 	Held by the Duke of Beaufort
should read 
Baron Botetourt 	1305 	Somerset 	abeyant the heirs of Lady Blanche Linnie Somerset.
The Baronies of Botetourt and Herbert both became abeyant on the death of the Henry_Somerset,_10th_Duke_of_Beaufort which I'd noted on that article but did not transpose to this page. Interestingly (well if you like this sort of thing) the Queen terminated the abeyance on the Herbert barony but not the Botetourt barony in 2002. However the holder of that title David John Seyfried-Herbert has a 1/2 share in the remaining abeyant title and the rival claimants (the reason I assume both weren't terminated) have only 1/4 shares which aren't normally sufficient to terminate. All things being equal this title will probably eventually be terminated in his favour if he and/or his heirs continue to persue it.Alci12 12:10, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spelling/Abeyance 

message: Given the discussion here and the general support for moving the article to a more descriptive and accurate title, would anyone object if I moved the article to List of baronies in the peerages of the British Isles with a redirect from List of baronies?  I'm going to propose this for the other peerage pages, as well. Fishhead64 20:44, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: A bold proposal

message: In the list, there is the following:
Baron Grey of Rotherfield	1297	Grey	Attainted 1487	 
But at Rayment Leigh's Peerage Page, there is the following:
"GREY DE ROTHERFIELD  	 	 	
						
25 Aug 1338 	B 	1 	Sir John de Grey 	c 1300 	1 Sep 1359Summoned to Parliament as LordGrey de Rotherfield 25 Aug 1338KG 1348
1 Sep 1359 		2 	John Grey 	1320 	4 Jun 1375 	54
4 Jun 1375 		3 	Bartholomew Grey 	1351 	12 Nov 1376 	25
12 Nov 1376 		4 	Robert Grey 		14 Jan 1388to         On his death the peerage became dormant14 Jan 1388"
How could that be? And which information is correct?VM 07:59, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The fourth Lord Grey had an only daughter, who, by modern law, inherited the Barony, and transmitted it to her heirs. This was not fourteenth-century usage; her heirs had perfectly good baronies of their own, and were summoned under them. So it went  unclaimed = dormant. (In fact, neither the third or fourth "Lord Greys" appear actually to have been summoned either.) Her last heir was Francis Lovell, 1st Viscount Lovell who was attainted after Bosworth and again after Lambert Simnel. Septentrionalis 17:37, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Grey of/de Rotherfield

message: Found this - not here - should it be? Morwen - Talk 17:20, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Baron Parr of Horton]]

message: Title            	Date of creation	Created by (monarch) 	Surnames              	Current status                                 	Notes
Baron Percy      	1066            	William the Conqueror	(de) Percy            	created Earl of Northumberland in 1377         	extinct or fallen into abeyance since 1670
Barony of Bedford	?               	William Rufus        	de Beauchamp, de Brent	Merged to Duke of Bedford in 1138, 1366 or 1414	Forfeit after First Barons' War, and soon after on rebellion against Henry III of England by its holder Faukes de Brent
These should not be here; they are not Peerages of Parliament, and never were; they are half genealogical figments, and half abuses of the fact that every man who holds direct of the King is a "baron". We cannot list every great tenant from Domesday Book, and should not do so here. Septentrionalis 15:33, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Baronies in the Peerage of England, 1066-1263

message: Dividing this page into its five obvious subpages: Baronies in the Peerage of England, and so forth, would solve the length problem. We could leave all the present templates in place, and otherwise treat this as a dab. Septentrionalis 15:33, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Aye - would be usefull ~~ Phoe talk 15:38, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I see at the top that the lists exist. If there is no protest, I will come back tomorrow, collate, and remove. Better to maintain one list of English baronies than two. I mentioned this at WP:PEER.  Septentrionalis 15:47, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: A modest proposal