Talk:Chicago blues

message: Can anyone explain the difference in Chicago blues and Detroit blues? Neither article contains enough detail to tell the difference. Rmhermen 18:53, Mar 19, 2004 (UTC)
For that matter, the article gives great history, but nothing characterizing the style of this genre of music, and what differentiates it from say St. Louis Blues, Detroit Blues, or Delta Blues (the reason I came to this article). Contrast this article with the Wikipedia article on Heavy Metal:  "With roots in blues rock and psychedelic rock, the bands that created heavy metal developed a thick, massive sound, characterized by highly amplified distortion, extended guitar solos, emphatic beats, and overall loudness. Heavy metal lyrics and performance styles are often associated with masculinity, aggression and machismo." If I'd never heard heavy metal, I'd now have a sense of it. Not so after reading the Chicago Blues article. I know it would be in keeping with the spirit of Wikipedia to now go and write it, but I genuinely don't know -- that's why I came to the article. So this is a request to those who are more knowledgeable. --Rico (talk) 15:45, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Characterizing the Style

message: Here's a story that adds some background regarding development of the Chicago blues. While writing "Where Rebels Roost: Mississippi Civil Rights Revisited" I interviewed a blues historian in Drew (Sunflower County) and was told of a 1923 all-night gunfight in downtown Drew, a small town near the Dockery plantation that featured a busy blues alley. (Dockery had established his plantation in 1895, when the Delta was still a wilderness, by clearing and planting forty square miles of land near Drew and Rulville and employing hundreds of black agricultural laborers and sharecroppers. Henry Sloan, who in the 1890s began experimenting with new musical patterns on his guitar, was hired by Dockery and in 1897 the Patton family, including a sixteen-yearold son, Charley, moved to Dockery's.) Joe Pullen had returned to Drew from WWI and the veteran was in no mood to be taken advantage of. Hence, Pullen killed a Drew planter in an altercation over a pay dispute. A relative of Archie Manning participated in the all-night gun battle that ended when a machine gunner from nearby Clarksdale loaned his equipment to the sheriff's posse. Perhaps dozens of townfolk were killed and wounded before Pullen was taken down by the machine gun. Soon the town's sheriff announced a 7 p.m. curfew that included bluesmen and their jukes. For several days the curfew was followed but then the music started up again into the early morning hours. The sheriff and his "deputies" (night riders) tore into the jukes and shot a number of musicians. A day later, suitcases were packed by many of those surviving "Drew tradition" musicians who headed out for Chicago. Susan Klopfer 67.137.247.153 12:34, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Development story

message: I remember reading somewhere (don't remember where) that the Rolling Stones use Chicago blues in their style.  Mr. C.C. 20:28, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rolling Stones 

message: The introduction currently contains the following "making the harmonica louder with a microphone and an instrument amplifier, and adding electrically amplified guitar, amplified bass guitar, drums, piano and sometimes saxophone and trumpet. " There is no reference. This all sounds kind of intuitively reasonable but I'm currently reading the book The Devil's Music: A History of the Blues and the author doesn't mention this in the section on urban blues or chicago blues. In fact in talking about urban blues he talks about how electric guitars were added but he explicitly mentions that the amplification was not like modern guitars. I'm considering changing or deleting this text. If anyone has comments or refs please edit or comment. MadScientistX11 (talk) 19:36, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  intro text not sourced 

message: There are two names right now Harmonica Hinds and Little Ed Williamson that are red lined. I plan to remove them shortly unless anyone objects and wants to write at least stub articles for them, going by Wikipedia:Write_the_article_first BTW, I changed my user ID, used to be MadScientistX11 RedDog (talk) 03:01, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: There is a Wikipedia article about LIl' Ed Williams.  I corrected the red line.  A quick search revealed that Harmonica Hinds was Koko Taylor's harmonica player also known for acoustic guitar and active in Chicago since the 1970s.  Please don't remove Harmonica Hinds - a Wikipedia article will follow.--Wpwatchdog (talk) 16:09, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Being Koko Talyor's harmonica player is not nearly noteworthy enough to have your name included in an article about Chicago Blues IMO. By that standard the page would end up with hundreds of names on it. Do we have every player who ever played in Koko's band? And how could we justify just stopping with her, we would surely need the Harmonica player(s), drummer(s), bass guitarist(s) from every one of Muddy Waters' bands and Albert King, etc. I realize that everyone has their favorite artist but that's not what Wikipedia is for, its not a fan page its an encyclopedia and if there are names here that are not noteworthy in the history of Chicago Blues they should be removed. I'm getting some books on the subject which I want to review before I make any edits but I just want to be clear I'm not convinced that all the names that are there currently deserve to be. RedDog (talk) 16:35, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: OK.  Now I understand it is a subjective opinion of each Wikipedia editor.  I agree that the article shouldn't turn into a fan page for a person's favorite artist but it looks to me like Harmonica Hinds has been hard at work for years.  I wasn't aware of him until I entered this discussion.--Wpwatchdog (talk) 20:20, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plan to remove two red lined names from list of chicago blues people 

message: 75.22.23.192 posted this comment on 13 October 2012 (view all feedback).
my one suggestion would be to remove the 'far' from 'far south side of chicago'. most of the notable blues clubs were around 43rd St. which is not the Far South Side but just the South Side. You might also mention West Side bluesman, known for their rougher style. I don't know about those ninth chords either- in my brief experience onstage I always got a funny look if I played ninths. I have never heard of a trumpet in a chicago blues band, but that's me.
Any thoughts?
RedDog (talk) 18:08, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the feedback suggestions should be followed.--Wpwatchdog (talk) 13:41, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I think so as well from what I know but I'm holding off making more edits for a while. I have what seem like two excellent reference books on order at my local library (it's part of a city chain so has lots of books available fast). I should get them this week and plan to read the relevant parts and make some more changes after that. Of course anyone else is free to make changes in the mean time, just remember to leave good references :) RedDog (talk) 15:35, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Great!--Wpwatchdog (talk) 17:38, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I think I've dealt with all these issues. The stuff about the palette I couldn't find in any of the source books I obtained so I deleted it. I also found a good reference to clarify where the blues clubs were, it wasn't the "far south" side just the south side and also some small black neighborhoods on the West side. RedDog (talk) 18:41, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reader feedback: my one suggestion would be t... 

message: The categorization of Chicago Blues players here is obviously based either on simply the fact that the musician was based in Chicago or recorded with a Chicago based label, which is misleading. Muddy Waters, for example, was a Delta blues musician who moved up North and while he obviously would have met new influences there, his style nevertheless remained Delta more than anything else. Arthur Craddup may have recorded with a Chicago label but no one would seriously suggest he was a city blues musician. I admit that no such statement has been made here, but by listing him among Chicago blues label artists, an insinuation is made that he was therefore a Chicago blues musician. Even if BB King had never left Mississippi he would still have been a Chicago blues player, because that's what he plays. There are Chicago blues players in the South, just as there are Southern blues players in other places. Keb Mo, for example, was born and grew up in California but he has more of the Southern sound in his style than Buddy Guy, a Southern born musician. I know it may not be possible to come up with a categorization that will please everyone, but the mistakes are too glaring here.
Albert Khomani, blues maniac  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Albert Khomani (talk • contribs) 16:17, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Everything you said sounded reasonable to me. Can you find a source that is widely accepted and that says the same things? If so please document the book or other source here and I will take a shot at revising the article. But of course without a source what you are saying is just wp:original research --MadScientistX11 (talk) 17:05, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Categorisation of Chicago Blues players 

message: The IP edits on 5/25/2015 are not supported by the "references" (bare URL links) and do not follow policies such as WP:NOR, WP:VER, WP:NPOV or WP:SYNTH.  See also Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Jagged 85 (more info: WP:Jagged 85 cleanup and WP:Sockpuppet investigations/Jagged 85/Archive). —Ojorojo (talk) 19:14, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  5/25/2015 IP edit 

message: "Chicago blues was one of the most significant influences on modern rock music."  This is the sort of claim that should be referenced.  Knowing what is meant by "modern rock music" would help. So, yes, I am considering cutting it out. Carptrash (talk) 19:20, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: It might be more accurate to say "early rock music" than modern rock music. I think I'm going to be bold and just make that change. But with that change I don't see any reason for removing this statement. Everything that comes after that sentence in that small section supports that statement and those later sentences have 5 references in total, which is actually very well referenced for such a small section. --MadScientistX11 (talk) 21:25, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Better.  I think that there is a tendency to consider Chuck Berry and Bo Diddly to be Chicago Blues because they recorded at Chess and used Willie Dixon and a few others in the sessions. Dixon somewhere says that he and the other musicians thought Berry was playing country music. So I think the Chicago Blues influence on Rock music is not on the "early" rock but on the later, largely Brritish rock.  But this is better.  For now. Carptrash (talk) 22:41, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I also added two more references to support the influence of Chicago Blues on early rock, one for the Rolling Stones and one for the British Invasion in general. As I read through this section it could use some editing IMO for a better flow. On another topic, I think there are far too many people listed in the "notable musicians" section.  I don't have time to work on those issues right now but just thought I would mention it.  --MadScientistX11 (talk) 16:11, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is this really true?