Talk:Sonning Cutting railway accident

message: In the Sonning Cutting article there is a link to an interesting drawing of the cutting at Sonning Hill done in about 1845. The brick arch bridge that carries the Bath Road over the cutting is shown in the background and a wooden bridge is shown in the middle ground. This must, I think, be the "wooden bridge" referred to at the inquests (there are and never were, I believe, any bridges over the cutting on the Reading side of the brick bridge). If this is correct, the picture shows the site of the accident, which was said to have happened about 270 yards on the Twyford side of the wooden bridge. So, what are those people doing in the picture? Evidently, they are repairing the bank slips that can quite clearly be seen in the drawing, on both sides of the line. All interesting, but of course of no use to the article, because this would constitute original research. Regards, Nick. Nick 08:43, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: An interesting picture

message: I think Nick has a unenlightened view of "original research". The picture he refers to is presumably that from JC Bourne's book of the GWR, sketched well after the accident. The text makes no reference to the accident, but there does seem to be work on slipped material on the left bank. The right bank seems OK to me. I think it should be included in the article since the work is very old, and hardly "original". It shows the two bridges (which are still there, albeit in a  different form), so that readers who bother to visit Sonning can look over the top of the A4 bridge,  and see the site of this terrible accident. I can scan this picture if need be.Peterlewis 09:14, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I will try tomorrow at the university, because I know they have a large format scanner for the book. However, I only have the black and white image, not the coloured version. Will it matter? Peterlewis 09:54, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Where is the graveyard? I am lecturing to my students at Reading University on Saturday and would like some pics myself for a new book I am writing on railway accidents with Alistair Nisbet. We are actually spending most of our effort on the Shipton-on-Cherwell disaster of Xmas Eve 1874, but I am writing up the early accidents on the GWR for the early part of the book. I have previously written a book on the Tay Bridge disaster and recently a book on the Dee bridge failure of 1847 (both from Tempus). I notice from the Inspectorate records that there were many landslips on newly opened lines. I am also building up the archive on early accidents by scanning the reports and sending them on to the railwaysarchve.co.uk. The webmaster is aiming to have all the accident reports uploaded, so if you can help, it would be gratefully received! Peterlewis 14:25, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I've just uploaded the Bourne print to the article. Perhaps you can add some discussion re: slips visible? The ones at left are pretty clear but I'm not so sure on any at right. The Bourne prints are superb I think, and I will upload some more when time permits. I saw the cutting from the A4 bridge the other day, and it looks very impressive. Are there any views from the other end? Peterlewis 16:39, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

text:  I like the pics, and will be visiting the site over the weekend for some more. I wonder if it is possible to gain access to the top of the cutting? The Inpsectorate report clearly shows that the extra piled earth on top of the cutting made a slp much more likely. Ther section shows the origin of the slip just below the top of the cutting, just below the extra piles. Peterlewis 19:15, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

text:  I had a good explore at Sonning this weekend, including a visit to the local pub, the Shepherds House. Is this the original pub where the inquest was held? The landlord didn't seem to know, but has been complaining of ghosts recently! The local graveyard s very large, and apparently no graves of victims, but I was only able to view a few. Any luck with the local vicar? Considering the importance of the disaster as one of the most serious on the early railways, there s more exploration to be done. Peterlewis 15:04, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

text:  The Inspectorate issued a circular to all the rail co's on Jan 1st 1842 asking about 3rd class passenger accomodation. Only the GWR and SWR carried such passengers with goods, and the SWR said they would stop the practice soon. OS Nock (History of the GWR) says that the GWR hated carrying poor people for fear of offending the rich and famous, carrying them like cattle and only at night! Seems pretty shameful to me: I bet the victims received paupers graves in an unmarked plot. I am writing all of the analysis up for our new book, and will put some comments on the site. Peterlewis 19:16, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Original Research

message: I have been reading the Times reports from the Inquest, and they make harrowing but interesting reading. Surely there must be a church record of their burial? Even if there are no marked graves, I would have thought that the church would have had special respect for stone masons working on the new Houses of Parliament. I wonder if there is a memorial there? Peterlewis 17:26, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have recently been in touch with Diane Coulter of the Sonning and Eye History Society, and she is approaching the vicar drectly with our request for further info on the whereabouts of the victims. I will post any news here if you like, and then consider for posting on the main article. Peterlewis 21:30, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Victims

message: The Times reports on the inquests gave the names of those killed as:
Died at the scene.
John Pook, Stoke Cannon, Exeter, aged 30.
Charles Williams, stone mason, Cheltenham, aged 32.
Charles E. Sweetland, stone mason, Gloucester, aged 30.
George Mabbott, stone mason, Gloucester, aged 34.
Richard Ralph, Harwell, aged 25.
Labouring man, not identified.
Joseph Hands, Regent's Park, aged 26.
Jabez Cleave or Clee, stone mason.
Died in the RBH, 30/12/1841.
Richard Woolley, stone mason, Cheltenham, aged 40.
The eight who were killed in the parish of Sonning were said to have been buried in the churchyard at Sonning, but my wife could only find records for four of them, buried 28/12/1841, named as follows:
Charles Griffiths Sweetland, Gloucester, aged 21.
George Mabbott, Gloucester, aged 45.
Unknown, supposed to be John Pook, of unknown, aged about 23.
William Henry Thomas, Stanley St Leonard, aged 32. Presumable he is the Labouring man shown in the list above.
A note in the index says these four persons (with four others) were killed by an accident on the Great Western Railway, December 24th.
90.218.80.232 (talk) any more upto date information guys??  —Preceding undated comment added 22:16, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Identity of victims