Talk:Synchronous motor

message: I have a basic, college-physics plus new-to-electronics-as-hobby level background understanding of motors, and can throw together a basic DC motor out of office supplies to amuse children and small animals.  I even have a doctorate, post-doc, and most of a second doctorate in reasonably demanding scientific and technical disciplines.  In spite of what might be a slightly above average WP reader background and vocabulary, this article has jargon that rivals the impenetrable WP articles done by scholarly mathematicians.
There are more multiple adjective noun phrases than an episode of Star Trek!
E.g.
...as a result, provides the second synchronized rotating  magnet field  of any AC motor. A synchronous motor is only considered doubly fed if is supplied with  independently excited multiphase AC electromagnets on both the rotor and stator.
Please consider the following suggestions to humanely supply your dear readers with your knowledge and expertise:
*Define technical, novel or complex concepts.  You can do this simply via parenthesis or footnotes or a definition section or side box.  While links to other WP pages should be liberal, you should not have to open a dozen pages just to get through the introduction.
**A simple, in-line definition can go a long way to improve readability.  You may need to have more precise or detailed definitions in preceding text as a separate sentence, or as footnote, link, etc.
*Resist urges to dumb-down.  Bring your readers up to speed.  Assume they are eager to learn, but may not have arrived at your page via all the other pages needed to comprehend.
*Be generous in linking to other relevant WP pages and external sources.  Make an effort to search for relevant pages. 
**When I am writing in my own domain, I box-quote key concepts, technical terms and phrases, and synonyms for key concepts and phrases.  Sure, a bunch show up in red, but even those help you.  
***Maybe all is needed is a redirect page to point to an article (or section of article)--if you were looking for something via a specific term, chances are others would as well.  
***Sometimes, fairly often in fact, you just need to add the right WP page name (after you find it) to whatever term you use.  
***It varies dramatically by discipline, but as many WP pages there are, there are still important gaps, so you might need to create a new page.  Even a bare-bones, "let's start a new page" article, with a brief introduction (so the WP bots/über-editors don't killthe page in its infancy like so many cats) and a link to reasonable web site or publication is helpful.   Enlist he enthusiastic support from contributors on talk pages of other articles. 
**Complex topics, esp. those using multiple adjectives, adverbs, and nouns together as a single concept pose special challenges for linking.  Different WP articles may be needed, often with overlapping use of words in your otherwise brilliant and well written article.  (It is, I just cannot understand it.).   — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.73.1.89 (talk) 18:53, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Jargon, undefined concepts, need for linking to other WP pages to guide the clueless

message: I'm not sure about others, but personally I feel that the most important aspect of how a synchronous machine works, is absolutely left out of this article. It's even emphasized that no slip is needed to produce torque (as in contrast to asynchronous machines, where a rotation speed difference is required to produce torque), but after that there is no mention of how torque is actually produced in a synchronous machine! The rotor has to be lagging behind the rotating magnetic field of the stator(but having the same rotational frequency), and THIS creates a force. If in generator mode (and locked to the grid), the rotor is leading, followed by the rotating magnetic field of the stator.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.132.129.41 (talk) 12:12, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Torque angle 

message: * I'd like to see more information on the control of a synchronous motor/generator. What's the amount of current you'd like to send through the powering magnets, how do you calculate it?
* There are many ways a synchronous motor can be constructed, an explanation with pictures will be useful.
* How do you start it? It can't be just turned on. It has to be either brought up to speed, and then the power can be turned on, or it has to be controlled using power electronics which control the frequency. Or alternatively one could start without current through the rotor, and use an impedance instead, it would be a regular AC motor, and then switch to synchronous when it's brought up to speed. If someone could elaborate on this subject, please add it to the article.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aphexer (talk • contribs) 09:11, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request for expansion 

message: * They are fundamentally much more expensive than their squirrel cage counterpart due to their particular construction.
* A synchronizing equipment must be installed in order to apply current to the rotor windings when the motor achieves 95-97% of its synchronous speed. 
* They are often used in high-power applications (above 1 000 HP), when proper starting techniques must be used in order to minimize the undesirable effects on the electric network due to the large amount of current required. This is not unique to synchronous machines, though, as any motor will draw 5 to 6 times their nominal current during the starting phase.
</blockquote>
Choppingmall 00:07, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disadvantages 

message: The stator of a synchronous motor is not different from a squirrel cage motor, as it is composed of windings disposed to provide a rotating magnetic field when alternating current is applied. The rotor, though, is designed to provide a static field by itself to lock with the stator's. This is obtained with a permanent magnet in the case of small motors and DC windings on bigger units. A small generator, called an exciter, is sometimes mounted on the shaft of high power motors in order to provide 3-phase current, which is rectified and fed in the motor rotor windings.
</blockquote>
The principle of having the rotor provide a static field (generated by windings or permanent magnet) which "locks" with the stator's is a really good description -- but the rest is not generally applicable. A section should probably be made to describe "typical" construction, but acknowledge that there are other ways of doing it. Remember that high power synchronous motors are relatively unusual compared to small ones, so don't generalize based on their characteristics.
Choppingmall 00:26, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, the removed content probably were not perfect, but current version does not have ANYTHING about construction, so this is worse. This indeed is insufficient, but it is better than nothing. I will restore section about construction in few months, if no one objects. -Yyy (talk) 16:56, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Construction 

message: A link to electojects.com has been repeatedly added to Stepper motor, Electric motor and Brushless DC electric motor by Special:Contributions/217.53.109.235, Special:Contributions/82.201.156.201, Special:Contributions/217.53.107.168, Special:Contributions/217.53.16.164, and others.
The link in question is registered to Abdoh Ali Mohamed, Hay Swesri, Nasr City, Cairo, Egypt.
I wonder if the four IP addresses listed above have any connection... Naw, couldn't be.  Egypt is a big country. Must be a coincidence.
I'm going to start patrolling wikipedia for any links to electojects.com or redirects to it and deleting them on sight. If they come back, I'll move to blacklist the address.
Mdsummermsw (talk) 18:20, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spam 

message: WP:ESCA :)  . Count Iblis (talk) 14:54, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposal C

message: Article has been tagged for needing sources long-term. Feel free to reinsert the below material with appropriate references. DonIago (talk) 19:00, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unsourced material - article tagged in January 2014 

message: The average efficiency of an synchronous motor is told nowhere in the article, or at least i can't find that information. I think it should be added to the article.
Ojakokko (talk) 14:20, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Greatly varies in general, for large motors above 95%. Викидим (talk) 01:46, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Missing efficiency information

message: In "operation" section we have "The operation of a synchronous motor is due to the interaction of the magnetic fields of the stator and the rotor. " This cannot possibly work because fields do not interact with fields.
If you put a magnetic field A in the presence of a magnetic field B, what you get is a magnetic field C that is the sum of the other two, and that is the end of the story.
To move your rotor, you need to create a force or a couple of forces acting on it.
You will not find in physics a formula that says field + field = force.
To create the force, you need to have the stator field interact with a magnetic moment in the rotor. Though the name is close, it is a different beast entirely. A magnetic moment is a representation of the configuration of electric currents in an object. That may be macroscopic currents, that you create by applying some power supply to a coil, or it may be a collection of intrinsic currents in matter like for example the electrons running on their orbits around the nucleus. Electrons also have intrinsic magnetic moments for reasons i do not pretend to understand. Those intrinsic currents are for the case of permanent magnets, for example. Of course, they also exist in any matter , but in ferromagnetic materials, at least a portion of those moments can be aligned to a given direction under the influence of a magnetic field, thus creating a net macroscopic effect, whereas in ordinary objects they remain scattered in all possible directions and cancel each other out.
So when you put two magnets close together, you do not feel forces because the fields of both magnets act upon one another, but because the field of one magnet acts on the magnetic moment of the other, and vice versa. If you think about it, you will realize you only feel the force in the magnet themselves, because the magnetic moment is tied to the material of the magnet, it cannot radiate away from it, the electric currents are internal . If fields could act on fields, since they spread from the magnet in all the space around them theoretically up to an infinite distance, you would have a force field filling the space around the magnets, which as far as i know, is still the stuff of science-fiction.
Now in physics you do have a formula that creates a force out of a field and an electric current : F = I.dl ^B (vectorial product), and for rotating systems : Torque = (magnetic moment) ^ B.
So your sentence should read : "The operation of a synchronous motor is due to the interaction of the magnetic field of the stator, and the magnetic moment of the rotor."
This is true for all the electric motors i can think of, though sometimes in a less obvious manner.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Metazoaire (talk • contribs) 22:58, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Physically wrong statement

message: I added clock drive under the "see also" header, because it must be related. But I cannot work out from the article if clock drives are a special case of these motors, or whether they work on the same principle. Someone who knows can perhaps integrate it into the article. JMK (talk) 19:03, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clock drives 

message: I'd like to get some comment on the use of Power versus horsepower to describe these motors. Line 22 states Synchronous motors are available in sub-fractional horsepower self-excited sizes. I think the term "horse" has no place here unless we are quoting the power output of these motors in Watts or horsepower. Avi8tor (talk) 13:14, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Use both (you are trying to push this same viewpoint across many articles and it's still wrong). Use the  template, per our normal practice. Andy Dingley (talk) 13:17, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  The convert template is being used, you misinterpret the suggestion. Are you suggesting we should say "Synchronous motors are available in sub-fractional horsepower/power sizes"? They both mean the same thing, but Power is a word that addresses both horsepower and Watts (kW/MW). Avi8tor (talk) 04:39, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: "Sub-fractional power" makes no sense. "Sub-fractional horsepower" means less than 746 watts. This could be added in parentheses if necessary. Bradv🍁 18:54, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Since everything can be expressed as a fraction, there's no need for "sub fractional horsepower".  Why don't we just stick to what the motor standards and catalos say and refer to them as "fractional horsepower" ? --Wtshymanski (talk) 21:25, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a good point – "subfractional" is redundant. "Fractional horsepower" would work just fine. Bradv🍁 23:26, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Power versus Horsepower 

message: SSC motors are said to be much more efficient than others.  An explanation in the article of what they are and why efficient would be appreciated.  
With exceptions, the article in general seems to be written with little mention of energy efficiency.  Adding comments about the efficiency of the various technologies would be nice for someone looking at buying a motor for, e.g. the blower on an air conditioner. Ocdcntx (talk) 01:18, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: (1) The sensor-based and sensor-less speed control (the latter is SSC) should be a section of the Vector control (motor). Here we most likely need just a brief mention of it in the, probably, PMSM section (and in the BLDC article). (2) Efficiency is a interesting topic, but belongs in the Electric motor article, most likely (or even a separate, yet unwritten, Efficiency of electric motors (we have a weak Premium efficiency about the marketing term). Reason for this topic being out of scope here is simple: the motors types vary by application, so PMSM, for example compete on efficiency not so much with regular SMs, but with induction motors. Викидим (talk) 20:56, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Explanation of SSC would be appreciated