Talk:Struggle over Palestine

message: To get started with an NPOV version, here are the essential facts:
Brief history:
* The area of (1947) Palestine was inhabited by various groups (Philistines, Caananites, Jews, etc.) from pre-biblical times. 
* The number and composition of residents changed over time. Since about 1,300 years ago Jews became a minority (5% in 1880) and Arabs a majority in the area (95% in 1880). 
* Diaspora Jews in 1917 convinced Balfour, an official of Great Britain which colonized Palestine at the time, to issue declaration of support for establishment of a Jewish home there. Palestinian residents were not asked for opinion and they opposed this idea.
* The pogroms of Jews in late 1930s and 1940s greatly increased support for a safe-heaven for Jews. After the WWII the British empire began crumbling. Facing increasing terror by Jewish groups in Palestine, the Brits decided to leave and hand over the area to the U.N.
* In 1947 the UN GA voted to partition the area in roughly 2 halves + Jerusalem. One half was assigned to Jewish control, the other to Palestinian control and Jerusalem to international control. Palestinians and other Arabs opposed this plan.
* Israel proclaimed an independent state and began ethnically cleansing the area of Palestinians. These acts violated the Partition resolution.
* Some Arab neighbors attacked Israel. Israel invaded and occupied areas outside of its partition and occupied some neighboring lands as well. Israel was condemned numerous times for these acts by the UN SC and GA.
* After several wars, Israel ended up occupying more than 80% of 1947 Palestine, plus Jerusalem, plus parts of neighboring lands.
Current status:
* Israel is:
:* Illegally occupying areas outside of its U.N. assigned part.
:* Illegally occupying parts of Syria and Lebanon.
:* Regularly attacking, bombing and killing Palestinian civilians.
:* Employing helicopters, tanks, APCs and other advanced arms (against mostly unarmed civilians).
:* Israel has killed over 3,300 and wounded over 40,000 Palestinians since 2000 (about 1.5% of population.)
:* Regularly bombing and demolishing Palestinian buildings, orchards and infrastructure, leaving tens of thousands homeless and impoverished.
:* Engaged in collective punishment, killing or imprisoning relatives of suspects, destroying their homes (over 62,000 Palestinian homes have been destroyed or damaged by Israel since 2000.)
:* Imprisoning more than 10,000 Palestinians without trial or even charges.
:* Torturing Palestinian prisoners, using Palestinian civilians as human shields.
:* Maintaining and expanding occupation colonies throughout Palestine.
:* Blocking Palestinian refugees from returning to their homes (while inviting Jews from all over the world to immigrate.)
:* Maintaining Jewish-only roads and taking most water resources for Israel.
:* Preventing anyone but Jews from owning land or other real property within Israel.
:* Preventing Arabs living in Israel from marrying Palestinians (in effect.)
:* Restricting movement of Palestinians within their areas, with numerous checkpoints and curfews.
:* Holding 1.2 million Palestinian refugees in the Gaza Strip penned in a giant cage.
:* Building a wall around WB Palestinian towns, cutting off many from work or school, and grabbing more land.
:* Violating the UN Charter, the Geneva Convention and 69+ UN resolutions calling for Israel to withdraw, cease attacks on civilians and violations of human rights of Palestinians.
:* Violating peace plans it signed (the Oslo and the Roadmap.)
:* Refusing to acknowledge the Palestinian right to self-determination and state, while most Israelis support these rights (if there is peace.)
:* A major military power, in posession of at least 200 nuclear bombs.
:* Above the U.S. in GDP budget expenditures per capita.
:* Receiving from the U.S about US$ 6 billion in military and financial aid each year.
* Palestinians are:
:* Engaged in violent resistance against Israeli occupation. 
:* Attacking and killing Israeli soldiers and civilians, mostly using suicide bombers.
:* Launching improvised rockets (mostly duds) into Israel and occupation colonies.
:* Palestinians have killed about 1,000 and wounded 5,600 Israelis since 2000 (about 0.1% of Israeli population).
:* Frequently throwing stones at Israeli tanks, APCs and soldiers.
:* Not complying with the peace plan promise of best efforts to reduce attacks on Israeli civilians and disarm militias.
:* Officially recognized Israel's right to exist, some extremists remain opposed (while there is occupation.)
:* Receiving food assistance from the UN Refugee fund, about US$ 300 million from EU, US$ 500+ million from Arab/Muslim world (after recent Saudi aid increase) + US$ 20 million from the US (since 2003.)
:* More than half the work force is unemployed, nearly 2 million (60%) are poor, live on US$ 2 per day, with many incidences of severe malnutrition.
Views of others:
:* Most of the world supports Palestinian right to self-determination and Israel's right to exist and condemns Israel's occupation, killing and oppression of Palestinians.
:* Most of the Arab and Muslim world strongly supports Palestinians, many refuse to trade with Israel, some refuse to recognize Israel while there is occupation, Arabs have offered recognition and trade in exchange for peace.
:* The U.S. government strongly supports Israel, but also calls for Israeli withdrawal and a viable Palestinian state.
HistoryBuffEr 02:48, 2004 Oct 25 (UTC)
:: ... Which are no more than cheap propoganda. These "facts" are merely the Palestinian POV which try to whitewash their terrorist attacks against Israelis and their goal of eradicating Israel and its Jewish inhabitants, while condamning Israel's legitimate self defense against Palestinian terrorism. MathKnight 12:21, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Essential Facts 

message: Jayjg, you keep jousting with Alberuni and HistoryBuffEr whom you can easily paint as unreasonable extremists, but ignoring me. You are obviously familiar with Wikipedia's work in this area, so unless you are willing to lay the same charge of extremism against me, I think it is reasonable to ask you to respond to my question which I now direct to you individually:
1. Is there such an article (that is, an article on the post-1967 Israeli military occupation of territories outside the Green Line)?
1.1. If so, what is it called?
1.2. If not, is there an argument being made that there should not be such an article?
-- Jmabel | Talk 04:25, Nov 1, 2004 (UTC)
: I'm not Jayjg, but the article you are looking for (q1 and q1.1) can be found in here: Palestine#Status_of_territories_captured_in_the_Six-Day_War. MathKnight 17:44, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sorry Jmabel, with all the nonsense going on I'm losing track of things.  I'm not purposely ignoring you.  Have MathKnight and Gadykozma been able to answer your questions. Jayjg 20:05, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Asking yet again