Talk:OS-tan/Archive 2

message: What's the point where you can talk about some picture but you are unable to show it.  Also limiting only for a few os, showing a serious lack of neutrality or simply the lack of knownedge.
A incomplete entry is too good like a fake entry.
This entry currently lack :
-The rest of the windows operating system.
-Linux distros.
-Firefox (it's not a os but still is part of the os-tan).
-Norton Antivirus. (i'm not sure about this).
-Mac OSX.
The other details it that os-tan are just a fantasy and unruly design just for fun, the design  IS NOT MANDATORY where not written rule exist or is globally accepted and, in fact in some cases the design can be completely different (for example the os-tan xp black design).
 --Magallanes 10:45, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There used to be a list of all known OS-tans, however, the article was deleted as it was unencyclopedic. However, as a compromise the main article is allowed to maintain a short list of examples of the most recognizable OS-tans. --Darkstar949 05:55, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: What's the point

message: I don't know where this originated, but whatever sexual fetish commonly assigned to OS-tans are redundant in an encyclopedic article describing them. What sexual fantasies some artists apply to these characters has nothing to do with the subject. 2k-tan into futanari? What do these characters have to do with futanari? I, and I would assume many others, would view the mention of such a fetish or condition unfitting for any article that has no basis in describing anything directly linked to it. They are alsa highly POV-based claims, existing only in the fantasy of some artists or communities dedicated to the OS-tans. --Ifrit 23:05, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Os-tan are a lot of this kind of fetish fantasy.  It's the same of talk about playboy magazine but don't mention the sex part. --Magallanes 10:45, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  What the hell, sexual fetish references? 

message: Google says there're a whole bunch of designs floating around for her, link here.
http://darkdiamond.net/features/tuesday-tans-celebrate-vista-with-vista-tan/
Should we wait to update the article until a "finalized" version is selected?— Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.92.38.205 (talk)  22:28, 2 March, 2007 (UTC)
: From what I've seen, The general design thats been decided on by the artists is the girl in the red and white sailor fuku, Its still too early to tell anyways.
:Personally, I prefer the red and white design over the green one.--Theredstarswl 02:24, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Currently are different styles, even a Longhorn vista me-tan. --Magallanes 10:45, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: how about create new article that talk about vista? are vista is a girl/boy with a long horn? a little girl or what?? --Landavia 07:30, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  A new article for Vista-tan would likely be put up for deletion very quickly. Last time I checked the style still needed to be finalized and as such we should wait until it is finalized before discussing placing her in the list of notable OS-tans. --Darkstar949 14:01, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vista-tan, does she exist yet? 

message: I have been working on tighting up the artile which means lots of editing - what follows are some comments that I removed from it:"Previous versions of this article claimed one story or the other as fact, and also stated that Futaba Channel and 2chan were independent sources each credited with the origin. Checking of facts and reference-gathering needs to be done, I'm just editing. I believe part of the futaba/2channel confusion comes from the fact that English speakers usually call Futaba Channel 2chan, because futaba's internet address is 2chan.net. It is however recognized to be separate from 2ch.net, which is what Japanese refer to as 2channel. Therefore, someone talking about 2chan really means futaba chan and not 2channel" --Darkstar949 16:14, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comments from article 

message: As apparent from the article, it has undergone sweeping revisions. Please do not revert past the sweeping revisions, the majority of the original information is still in the article only now tightened up a bit with references. If significant changes are needed please discuss them before we start an edit war. --Darkstar949 12:50, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sweeping Revisions 

message: Why aren't there images and descriptions of—or even mention of—the Mac OS Tans and the Linux Tan and other non Windows Tans? Kakaze 04:48, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: They're only minor characters that would only bload up the article, Unnessecary Info. --SU182 08:51, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There isn't even a mention of any non Windows characters...what you call "bload" I call useful information.  What ever happened to the list of all the characters anyway?  There should be a list.  Kakaze 08:57, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The list of all OS-tans was deleted by the admins for being non-encyclopedic, and they warned us to only keep an nominal list of examples in this article as well. --Darkstar949 13:02, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Should be at least minimal mention of their existance. 24.87.22.207 07:55, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

text: wait!! after i read.. i agree with you. But why OS server not include? even thought they only spice the things up.. but Win Server was family--Landavia 07:26, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I agree. I've actually never seen Windows tans before now. I've only seen Linux and browser tans. I know that's a very subjective statement, but I think at least they should be mentioned. Bajsejohannes 15:58, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Non Windows OS Tans

message: This section is over due for some clean up and sources. For the clean up it will need to be placed into paragraph format and for references it will need at least one regarding that an issue existed and one regarding the resolution if it can be found. Odds are if nothing can be found then the section might need to be considered or removal - the issue happened back in 2004 so there should be something out there on the internet if it was a significant event. --Darkstar949 05:40, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Honestly I think it needs to be removed. I don't really see this being necessary to the article, and as you pointed out, its 3 years old, and no real sources.--Crossmr 17:41, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm all for removing the section as well, however, if you look though some of the talk page you will see the last time it was removed there was some controversy. I would say we leave it there for another day or two and if nobody says anything or comes forth with sources we remove it. --Darkstar949 04:30, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Well, it has been a week and no body has come up with any indication any form of a source for it so it is being removed. --Darkstar949 04:25, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dispute between Futaba Society and Deja Vu 

message: This is a to-do list for tasks that still need to be done to improve the article, at this point in time there is still quite a bit of work that needs to be done with the article as a whole.
* The History section needs to be checked to see if it can be expanded a bit
* The Tan Suffix section should be fine as is, but may need an additional source
* The Examples section needs some more research and the number of examples appearing may need to be reduced so that it is following the spirit of the results of the AfD/List of OS-tans discussion
* The References and in-jokes section needs some major work or may have to be considered for removal
* The Movement against Netrunner should be fine as is, however, some research should be done to see if the controversy is still on going or if it has come to an end
--Darkstar949 13:06, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, it's one of the sections in the article from  way back when that had a grand total of zero sources to begin with. The little bit that I have been able to find shows that the controversy it is referencing is quite old (2005 if I remember correctly) and there really doesn't seem to be much going on in regards to the controversy lately. It might be another candidate for removal. --Darkstar949 14:19, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It sounds like something well worth keeping if references can be found.  Ichibani 22:37, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that it is something worth keeping around, however, the trick is finding the sources. My Japanese isn't that good and the English language sources will likely get denied as per previous discussions. --Darkstar949 18:03, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Try anyway? If you think it's good, that is.  At least it'll give me something to argue about. ;-) Ichibani 04:12, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  To-Do List 

message: Darkstar, you said you understood a little japanese. Are you able to tell what this is? . I saw it described as a "fan" book, but it has an actual ISBN, and I can't tell if there is a real publisher. It could be a potential source, here is an english page on it , still not clear if this is done by a reliable publisher or if its some kind of self-publish deal.--Crossmr 04:10, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll take a closer look at the Amazon page tomorrow, but I have seen that around before a few times. From what I remember, while it is  not a true doujinshi most of the material is republished from doujinshi. Doujinshi are typically self published by the the artist(s) so it is a toss up in terms of sources - might be some secondary information in it, but odds are most of it would be primary sources (i.e. artists commentary). --Darkstar949 05:06, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay. That is unfortunate. We really need someone who can tell us exactly what if anything can be taken reliably from that Japanese source. I worry about the domain name itself because I wonder if infoseek.co.jp is in fact just a self-published website repository like geocities. I'd like us to really examine the sources here and see what is usable both in terms of establishing notability and meeting the criteria laid out by wp:v, etc. We have a starting point in the wired source, and honestly I only want to approach merging (with internet memes) or deletion as a last resort if we really can't find at least 1 more reliable source (notability requires at least 2, and honestly its hard to build an article off a single reliable source, 2 isn't that much better unless they're very detailed and large sources). We currently have issues with statements like The concept of the OS-tans is reported to have begun... reported by who? if its not from a reliable source, that kind of statement becomes an issue. I'm going to tag this with a clean-up tag to indicate that its currently being worked heavily on, I will also continue to search for sources to help this article.--Crossmr 23:18, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I am a bit iffy on if the doujinshi would fall under primary sources or not - something that might need to be brought up somewhere else. However, my impression is that something written by the artist should be acceptable. This is definitely one of the difficult topics as there is enough out there for it to be notable, but then you get in to the debate about how to source it. Personally I would think that the doujinshi should work as a primary source. --Darkstar949 23:28, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It works as a primary source, but a primary source of what? Its a primary source of the artist or artists words who contributed to the book. That works in articles about the artists if they're notable enough, but to apply it to another article becomes an issue. It still falls under that self-published source part of WP:V, which still requires them to be a prof researcher if we're going to use their words in an article in anything but one about them. On the other hand if this is published by a third party, it can be used much more readily as source. Its marginally better than a blog, or personal website, but not much. Do you know if there is a japanese group here on Wikipedia, maybe we can get some people who are more fluent to look in to some of these japanese sources.--Crossmr 23:34, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It would work as a primary source of the OS-tans due to the fact that if the artist writes something along the lines of "This is what this character means" then that is the best possible source that you can get in regards to a character. A secondary source would merely dictate that someone else recorded the artist saying said things. However, it still boils down to we need to find another editor that can read Japanese on better than the "struggle through it" level and get their opinion on things - this subject is difficult to research as most of the sources for it are in Japanese. --Darkstar949 00:45, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That is what that character means to that artist. That is the problem with the primary source. You could say something like "Artist X has stated that he draws the OS-Tans with larger breasts if the OS has larger memory requirements". That artist can't be a source for the whole community, for all we know artist y doesn't do that, and neither does artist z. In using a primary source in an article not about that primary source, you have to follow the policy under WP:V#self. A secondary source saying it for the community would be something like the Wired source. If the wired source had said "OS-Tans are typically drawn with larger breasts to indicate more memory usage" terrific. That means we consider wired to be a reliable source, and they've gone out and done their research to draw that conclusion. We cannot draw that conclusion on our own. Its original research which there is a strict policy against.--Crossmr 23:08, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A possible source 

message: Doing a websearch for "OS girls" I found very little hits, of which a significant amount where Wikipedia mirrors, or not applicable due to for example not being about the OS-tans (for example about the female half of opposite sex twins) or not being used as a name.
Also searching for "OS少女" just yields Wikipedia mirrors and Chinese pages.
So in short, there's no (or too little) evidence of the OS-tans called "OS Girls" in the sense of a name. Wikipedia should restrict itself to documenting this phenomenon, not "feeding" it. Please don't add it back in until some popularity of the name "OS Girls" has been established.
Thank you, Shinobu 22:29, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed reference to OS girls 

message: Well we probally are, a lot of the OS-tan related sites have gone down and artwork is getting even harder to find, The only sites that can cater to new artwork are sites like ostan-collections.net and that's not even enough. --SU182 23:17, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Talk pages are for discussion of changes that need to be made to articles, not general discussion areas.--Crossmr 23:26, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: We are doomed