Category talk:Converts to Mormonism

message: Aren't all LDS movement members "converts to Mormonism"?  Are you trying to profile early members here?  WBardwin 17:15, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My initial intention was, for the most part, people who converted in the twentieth century or later. People like Glenn Beck, Gladys Knight, Andy Reid, Ricky Schroder, etc. Although I see I did have a few Mormon pioneers in at the start so maybe started a bad precedent.--T. Anthony 13:54, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: People can be "born into" the LDS Church and be "Mormon" their entire lives. Such people are not Mormon converts. The category should apply to people who once belonged to a church or religion or no church or religion and subsequently became Mormon later in life. You are right that this will apply to all of the "first generation" Mormons from ~170 years ago. That's the way life goes. I can't see a justification for including a convert in the 20th or 21st century but not including 19th century converts. SESmith 02:22, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You make a valid point, I withdraw the idea that including pioneers or first-generation Mormons is in anyway a "bad" thing.--T. Anthony 04:21, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Redundant?

message: Mormons are indeed Christians - I am not disputing this. However Converts to Mormonism are not necessarily converts to Christianity because many were already Christians. See eg List of converts to Christianity. The only one listed who is also a convert to Mormonism is Chieko N. Okazaki. A convert to Christianity converts from something outside Christianity to Christianity. A convert from Catholicism to mormonism converts to Mormonism but not to Christianity as the person was already Christian. Carminis (talk) 11:47, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: See for instance :Category:Religious converts and :Category:Converts to Christianity. The latter has just 2 subcats at the moment: :Category:Converts from Judaism to Christianity is correct but :Category:Converts to Mormonism is incorrect. Carminis (talk) 13:43, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's classified as a subtype of Christianity in the Converts to Christianity category. Placement as a subcategory doesn't mean everyone in it "converted to Christianity", it means they converted to Mormonism, which is a subtype of Christianity. Categories don't always make total sense in every way of looking at parent-subs, but since Mormonism categories are placed in subs of all other Christianity categories throughout WP, it makes sense not to make this the one exception. Zoporific 22:15, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Anyone in :Category:Converts to Christianity is by definition someone who converted to Christianity from outside Christianity, eg Judaism to Mormonism, atheism to mormonism, nothing to M; but not Methodism to Mormonism etc. Of course it is a subtype of christianity - the point is tht it is not the only subtype. Immigrants to the US are not all immigrants to North America - some will be canadians.  Carminis (talk) 02:37, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

text: That's why immigrants to North America would be a parent and immigrants to Canada would be a sub. Similarly, converts to Christianity is the parent and converts to Mormonism is the sub. As long as the converts to Mormonism category makes its definition clear (i.e. that it doesn't imply that the person came from outside Christianity), there is no problem with it being of a sub within the Christianity category.  Zoporific 03:48, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Converts 

message: Some Latter Day Saint groups (such as the Community of Christ) do not want to be called Mormons, so references to "Mormonism" and being "Mormon" in Wikipedia usually refer to the movement following Brigham Young (see Manual of Style.  However, William W. Blair and R. C. Evans are in this category, yet both converted to the RLDS Church after the LDS Church settled in Utah.  Is that a problem?  Do we need another category for Latter Day Saints that aren't called Mormons?  "Converts to the Latter Day Saint movement" sounds awkward and "Latter Day Saint converts" is ambiguous (What is being converted to and what is being converted from?).  ——Rich jj (talk) 16:49, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other Latter Day Saint denominations 

message: If you go through the "Converts to Christianity" section you will find lots of examples of people converting from one Christian faith to another.  The general sense is that the categories "Converts to Eastern Orthodoxy", "Converts to Roman Catholicsm" and "Converts to Protestantism" belong there, even though many of the people in each of those categories converted from other Christian denominations.  For consistentcy in wikipedia I put this category as a sub-category of the "Converts to Christianity" category.  It creates a consistency of categories.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:04, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Another example of a non-Christian convert is Chico Mapenda.John Pack Lambert (talk) 01:04, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The other categories are wrong. 99% of those included in this category were converts from another form of Christianity, so it makes little sense to include it as a subcategory of . Putting it in  would make sense for all those included in it. The same goes for most other subcategories of . Just because they all do it that way doesn't mean it is correct. It manifests a misunderstanding of how categories work together. If you wanted to set it up this way,  should be called  or something similar. How anyone can think that  should be a subcategory of  I'll never understand, unless you take the position that Protestantism is Christianity and Catholicism is not. Same goes here—it can't legitimately be in the category for most of those in the category unless you argue that Mormonism is Christianity and no other Christian religion is, which is self-evidently not true.Good Ol’factory (talk) 07:44, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

text: I know—I understand that you're saying this should be the same as the others one way or the other, and I can understand that. It is a wider problem that goes beyond just this category. I see that most of the other subcategories have been created and put in  since this one was created and the initial debate was held as to where this one should go (see the section above), so it's something that has developed independent of this one, and I can handle taking an "all or none approach" here. It's probably a categorization of convenience more than anything else, but it can also be misleading, as it does suggest everyone who converted to Mormonism also converted to Christianity. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:14, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Converts to Christianity sub-section