Wikipedia talk:Route diagram template/Catalog of pictograms/watercourses

message: If I could image what the symbol should look like I would have made one- has anyone any ideas- I need two on the Medway Navigation!? <unsigned & undated comment added by User:ClemRutter 14:54 14 February 2008>.
:Would one of the weir symbols not do, with the text automatic sluice used to differentiate it? Bob1960evens (talk) 23:53, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Automatic Sluice symbol

message: Medway Navigation has a point that is used for extraction into the Bewl Water Storage Reservoir. Any suggestion on how to represent it?  <unsigned & undated comment added by User:ClemRutter 14:54 14 February 2008.>
:Have you seen the uFEEDER and uRESR symbols? They are normally used for reservoirs that feed a canal, but could equally be used when the navigation feeds the reservoir. Bob1960evens (talk) 23:51, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I have now, the point of Medway Navigation, is that we have a uSTR with some side equipment that then pumps water in a pipe uphill to a Reservoir on a minor tributary. uFEEDERcould feed a mill pond but looks like a visible stream. uRESR doesn't have a uSTR , is coloured as a ue- but does hold promise as a base symbol. Not convinced. ClemRutter (talk) 11:24, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: They were designed to be used together, and were coloured light blue because they are not navigable. Bob1960evens (talk) 23:19, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Water Extraction point

message: One of the features of a navigation is the lock with overflow weir to right or left. If one chooses to represent it it takes 3 verticals tiles. So I haven't. Do we need an extra symbol, being that this is 'one' structure- or is this too fiddly. Thoughts?  <unsigned & undated comment added by User:ClemRutter 14:54 14 February 2008>.
:I have done several navigations and all of the locks on the Thames, and have generally used the three lines approach, because there are cuts where major bridges cross before the cut rejoins the main channel, locks where there are more than two channels, locks where rivers join the main channel before the cut does, and lots of other combinations, so have not built a lock and weir symbol although I have pondered it at times. Bob1960evens (talk) 23:49, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting one. I have seen those complex structures too. I walk the path rather than than float. It is the simple ones that puzzle me, where lock and weir are integral structures- on the Medway we have Oak Weir Lock and Sluice Weir Lock, where even the names are combined. It seems to be so inefficient to use three rows for one feature.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by ClemRutter (talk • contribs) 11:41, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I have produced a side weir and joiner, so a weir need only take up one row, but it still takes up two columns, as an attempt to put both on the same icon looked too fiddly. So far there is only a side weir for flow down the page, but I will add weirs for flow up. Bob1960evens (talk) 20:46, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Flow up added. Bob1960evens (talk) 17:55, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Lock and Weir, Weir and Lock

message: I notice that the uAKRZu symbol has been modified from the red British road symbol to the red and yellow German autobahn symbol but User:Wongm. I do not mind either, but User:Wongm has not altered any of the other symbols that use the British red road, and there are now maps which have the same type of road represented in two quite different ways, depending on whether it goes over or under a canal, or over an unnavigable waterway. Should we be consistent? Bob1960evens (talk) 20:56, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I suspect it's time to create a UK version, called uAROADu (to match existing uAROADo)and then to change all UK maps. I think we should keep to familiar UK colours.  Oosoom Talk 13:50, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I have created a uAROADu. When I have changed the maps, I'll sort out the green and light blue symbols too. Bob1960evens (talk) 22:07, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: All maps changed, I think. Green and light blue ones next! Bob1960evens (talk) 22:04, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Green and light blue ones done. Bob1960evens (talk) 08:09, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Modifications to A-road bridge

message: There seems to be a problem with collapsible sections again. I have added three to Template:Leeds and Liverpool Canal map, and the first and third work well, but the middle one throws all the alignment out, and changes the width of the map. Also, entries like "22-25" in the lock numbers column mess it up. Any suggestions? Bob1960evens (talk) 21:25, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Collapsible sections 

message: Some time ago there was some debate about whether a diagram was a map, (on the Sheffield and South Yorkshire Navigation page), and the mapneeded=yes switch was extended to include mapneeded=full. At the time, that displayed an alternative message on the article talk page, and did not appear on the articles needing route maps page. However, something seems to have happened to it, as the SSYN has now re-appeared on the articles needing route maps page, and shows both the old and new map request on the talk page. Does anyone know what has happened? Bob1960evens (talk) 23:34, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: The mapneeded=full switch

message: I am in the process of changing the template that shows a row of icons on the main page. At the moment it uses a canalrow2 template, which always shows a symbol in the first column, and shows a symbol in any column that has a "j" in the appropriate place. For symbols where there is no symbol for the first column, it uses a canalrow4 template, which ignores the first column. I have created a canalrow template, which has an extra column at the beginning, so you can use it for both, by putting a "j" if there is a symbol in the first column and leaving it blank if not. Then both types of symbol are handled in the same way. However, I have just discovered there are some canalrow3 templates, which cater for symbols which do not have an initial "u" in the name. (Most waterway symbols have names like uKRZo, but there are some that do not, like UKRZo, which is essentially a railway symbol.) I may try to cater for all three cases. Bob1960evens (talk) 10:40, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I have replaced the canalrow3 template with a plainrow template, for symbols with no initial "u", so that the syntax is the same as for the canalrow. Bob1960evens (talk) 12:27, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: The table of icons

message: I just had look through :commons:Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set green, there are five different colors of green!
The second and third icon are used for two tramway lines in Nantes (France), a busline(!) in Finnland and a metro line in bg-WP. The last two are only used for the Russian Metro of Charkow.
Maybe it's possible to join all those usages and use just two different colors, your and a lighter one ... just a thought ;-) axpdeHello! 10:43, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: See :Commons:Talk:BSicon/Colors#Greens. Useddenim (talk) 00:18, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Green, green, green are all my clothes^W icons ;-) 

message: Hi folks, this afternoon I created some water icons, but I'm not sure whether I should upload those:
WASSERgl:	WASSERg+l:	WASSERl+l:	or all three ways combined ...?
Cheers axpdeHello! 23:36, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I am not sure either. As explained above, I tend to use the standard blue or light blue icons for rivers, depending on whether they are navigable or not. In my opinion, they make for a neater map. Bob1960evens (talk) 16:14, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Two of the original icons seem to have disappeared, and the third displays in huge format - temporarily commented out. Bob1960evens (talk) 22:20, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  What do you think about ... 

message: Hi folks, uKRZuy and uKRZquy are improper names, because KRZ is reserved for rail crossing rail. I don't like "ROAD" either, but since those icons aren't used in the original project, go ahead with it ... maybe call those "uBROADu" and uBROADqu" according to "uBROADo"? axpdeHello! 09:40, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  uKRZuy and uKRZquy named wrong 

message: Hi folks, me again :-)
just thought about the namespace of this particular page. Actually, this page is no template, it's an overview on a special "project". Shouldn't this page be moved to Wikipedia:Waterways legend or something alike? axpdeHello! 09:46, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  correct namespace? 

message: For your information I just found a German waterways project with several additional icons, maybe you can make use of it! Cheers axpdeHello! 21:35, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[de:Template:Flusssymbole]] 

message: Does anyone know why the overlay icons do not display correctly in preview mode? The appear half a square to the right, and it makes it really difficult to see if the map will be ok, but they are fine again when I save the changes, and view the template in non-edit mode. Bob1960evens (talk) 17:39, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe a problem with Internet Exploiter? German wikipedia decided some time ago not to use overlay because of problems with that Micro$oft crap ... axpdeHello! 21:33, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Overlay icons not working

message: Would anyone be able to confirm that all of these symbols are Public Domain or have another suitable license? The River Parrett article which includes a map/plan built from these icons, is currently under review for FAC at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/River Parrett/archive1 & one of the reviewers is raising concerns about the licensing of the map. If anyone had any comments about this (or other aspects of the article) I'm sure they would be welcome.— Rod talk 16:37, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: On commons we came to the conclusion that (most) BSicons are  since those are just some colored geometrical objects ... axpdeHello! 09:51, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  License of these symbols 

message: The problems with overlay icons seem to be expanding, in that they often appear to be in the wrong position on maps within articles (particularly if using IE8). I have therefore produced a set of branch icons with all possible variants of green with blue and light blue. Does anyone know how to put the hover text on them? There also seems to be a problem with the fact that waterway and tramway icons are interchangeable, so we can have "Urban straight track" joined to "Waterway turning to right". Finally, I understand that the left and right designation was originally based on reading the map from the top downwards, but who really reads maps standing on their head? Is there not a case for right meaning "on the right as you look at it", rather than right meaning "on the left as you look at it"? Bob1960evens (talk) 22:06, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I have found the answer to hover text. There is a Template:BS-alt that holds the text. I remain unconvinced about the use of left and right, particularly when it applies to sailing a boat from the top of the page downwards on an un-navigable waterway.Bob1960evens (talk) 10:46, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: New icons needing hover text

message: :We have four icons for bridges , ,  and , which handle blue and light blue crossing blue and light blue. We could use the g to indicate that one of the colours is green, so ugKRZo would be green crossing blue,  would be green crossing light blue, uegKRZo would be blue crossing green and uexgKRZo would be light blue crossing green. I have already resorted to a similar scheme when there were too many combinations for junctions, so we have , ,  and  where the g applies to the main or side branch depending on the other switches. For unwatered canals crossing railways, umgKRZo, uxmgKRZo, uemgKRZo and uexmgKRZo would provide the same combinations as waterway bridges, with green crossing over red or light red and red or light red crossing over green. Bob1960evens (talk) 22:36, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: More on bridge icons - old section too large

message: I am a bit alarmed by the addition of CONT icons to all of the maps. I have found several now where there is no evidence for the waterway continuing beyond what was shown. The Blyth Navigation map had the harbour branch of the Southwold Railway continuing into the North Sea. It takes quite a while to get all the details right, and now it seems the CONT icons are being added without any checking to see if they are actually correct. Bob1960evens (talk) 23:09, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Addition of CONT icons 

message: * to 
* to 
* to 
* to 
Seems to fit in better with the rest of the u..KHST icons.  Ronhjones  (Talk) 22:02, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. I do not think uKHSTr was around at the time I created the horizontal basins, and someone later reworked the railway icons, but did not do the green canal ones. Bob1960evens (talk) 15:35, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yep. Was enough to do adjusting the rail icons in dark red/light red/dark blue/light blue ... :-} axpdeHello! 18:53, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: As they are all on Comnons, I can only nominate them - done.  Ronhjones  (Talk) 00:16, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well, they should be adjusted first, just compare the position of the "bubbles"! axpdeHello! 08:28, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

text:  Useddenim (talk) 16:18, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: ? I don't see a problem - I tried flicking back and forth from :File:BSicon uLKHSTl.svg and :File:BSicon uLSTRq.svg and as far as I can see the half bubble and the first full small one overlap.  Anyway the name change has been done, and I've altered the template page.  Ronhjones  (Talk) 23:20, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well, you should compare :File:BSicon uKHSTl.svg with :File:BSicon ugKHSTl.svg or :File:BSicon uLKHSTl.svg!!! axpdeHello! 05:44, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

text: Something seems to have gone wrong, as the Herefordshire and Gloucestershire Canal map showed the missing icon icon in place of a uLBASINr, and I have fixed the Welsh Wicipedia template as well. Because the icon is deleted, I cannot tell how many other instances there might be. Bob1960evens (talk) 22:27, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  There was a mistake in the new name ("BSicon" was missing), but I fixed the redirect. axpdeHello! 22:29, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rename? 

message: thumb|Narrowboat using Sanitary station at the Lancaster Basin opposite The Water-witch
I see from the discussion above, that editors are encouraged to display their literary and poetic skills on this page-- so deficient in both skills perhaps a piccy will do. I was fascinated to see how one should represent a sanitary station, built on a basin to the left of a canal opposite a pub, and a waterbus stop! (Bridge 98a) The Lancaster one way must be unique in slowing the cars to such an extent that a canal bus, is seen as the fast method to commute. However to narrow boat user knowing the location of these night soil stations is relevant- and relevant to WPs green credentials.--ClemRutter (talk) 09:21, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Several posibilities.  shows a feature on the left,  shows a building to the left. If you want the basin on the left as well, using , say, then there is a  or a  which can go in the column to the left. If none of those will do, drop me a note of any ideas and I'll draw something. (Though I'm not sure I would use Wikipedia as a navigation guide, when there are proper guides which do the job better.) Bob1960evens (talk) 13:01, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

text: The interest was theoretical rather than practical. The icon could be a bar- with a chamber pot at 45 degrees ... I needn't say more! Thought the shade of yellow could lead to an interesting discussion. Perhaps we should just think of a unique icon for an administrative building. --ClemRutter (talk) 16:40, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: One could also use the overlay icons  and . Then it won't matter what other features are there. Could make a useful addition to most maps - useful for me, 2 days and the pot is full...  Love the analogy with Lancaster - that's why I told SWMBO we had to live north of the Lune, because I was not going to cross those bl**dy bridges every day!.  Ronhjones  (Talk) 23:05, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Or copy the standard BW "bucket" symbol - http://www.grannybuttons.com/granny_buttons/2011/02/signs-of-the-waterways.html shows it on the first picture at top right.  Ronhjones  (Talk) 18:47, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Sanitary stations

message: On , is there a better symbol for Perry Reservoir? It's detached from the canal, which it feeds with water pumped through pipes. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 13:18, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: How about one of these icons:  or ? Useddenim (talk) 14:17, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 17:01, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Detached canal reservoir  

message: Would anyone who is interested please comment here? Useddenim (talk) 14:06, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I have made some comments. They seem to have decided to drop the -u from green icons, but it causes problems on the Waterways legend page, as icons like ugKRZo and gKRZo end up with the same name. For icons like the bridges, which have two colours, I have suggested that we use -ug for icons where the blue is vertical and the green is horizontal, and -gu for those where green is vertical and blue is horizontal. This same logic could also be applied to the umgABZlf, where umgABZlf would become ugABZlf (ie blue vertical and green branch) and uxmgABZlf would become guABZlf (ie green vertical with blue branch). For the mixed green/blue junctions, I think that would be a lot simpler to understand. Bob1960evens (talk) 22:47, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:RDT/C/watercourses, WP:RDT/C/watercourses/infrastructure and WP:RDT/C/watercourses/non-navigable have now been fixed. Useddenim (talk) 03:55, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  (u)g icons 

message: May I note that a "Legend" (for a user=reader) is not a "Library" (for the editor). This matters for example in Canal du Midi. See  (this one has no V-T-E btw) -DePiep (talk) 20:31, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: added. What's your point? If you feel so strongly about it, create a legend. Useddenim (talk) 22:04, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: My point is: "A legend is not a library". -DePiep (talk) 22:07, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Moved. Happy now? Useddenim (talk) 20:42, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I get the impression you actually did get my point, but had to use cynism for an unclear reason. A legend is an explanation of symbols used. Sometimes it is called a key. It is an aid to the reader. A libray, on the other hand, is an overview of available symbols. It can be called a catalog indeed (an illustration that you got it). It is an aid to the editor/creator. It follows that a legend is presented to the reader (in mainspace, or a link to reader's content space), and a catalog is presented to the editor (say WP, Help or non-content category spaces). -DePiep (talk) 07:04, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I got it the first time. The point I was trying to make was "be bold", which I guess you missed, so I did it myself. Useddenim (talk) 10:51, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  A legend is not a library 

message: for       . Please comment at :Commons:Commons:Deletion requests/File:BSicon xWASSER.svg. Useddenim (talk) 04:57, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Broken link.-- Clem Rutter (talk) 09:36, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Trivially repaired. YLSS (talk) 09:59, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deletion request