Talk:Cretan Turks

message: Turkish plural forms aren't relevant for an encyclopedic article. Could someone who knows the issue reduce the lead so that it includes only the relevant term(s)?
Peter Isotalo 17:20, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: The article reads:
:The majority of contemporary estimates calculate the number of Muslim Cretans remaining at the eve of the 20th century at 30,000, 9% of the island's population.
but there are no sources given for these "contemporary estimates". Are there good sources after the 1881 Ottoman census? --Macrakis 20:45, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Estimates of 19th century population

message: Miskin, you removed the following well-sourced paragraph
:...On the other hand, many Cretans converted to Islam—more than in any other part of the Greek world. Various explanations have been given for this, including the disruption of war, the possiblity of receiving a timar (for those who went over to the Ottomans during the war), Latin-Orthodox dissention, avoidance of the head-tax (cizye) on non-Muslims, the increased social mobility of Muslims, and the opportunity that Muslims had of joining the paid militia (which the Cretans also aspired to under Venetian rule).Greene, pp. 39-44
and reverted to the less complete and less well-sourced:
:A minority of the population (local Greek notables) converted to Islam, so that the Cretan ruling class would remain Greek-speaking. 
Though Glenny is a fine journalist, he is hardly a specialist on 17-18th century Crete; indeed, the full title of the referenced book is The Balkans 1804-1999: Nationalism, War and the Great Powers, that is, it doesn't cover the period just after the Ottoman conquest at all, and Crete is only a small part of his topic.  (There is also no page reference given so the reader can look up what his actual words were.) Greene, on the other hand, has worked in the Cretan (Vikeleia Library), Ottoman, and Venetian archives (and many other sources, of course), and is a history professor at Princeton with a joint appointment at the Program in Hellenic Studies.  Her book is specifically about the transition from Venetian to Ottoman rule.
You also removed the passages:
:It is difficult to estimate the proportion which became Muslim, as Ottoman cizye tax records count only Christians: estimates range from 30-50%.Greene, pp. 52-54
:By the last Ottoman census, in 1881, Muslims were only 24%, concentrated in the three large towns on the north coast, and in Monofatsi.Macrakis
which is sourced to a Harvard Ph.D. dissertation (later published in Greece as Ελευθέριος Βενιζέλος 1864-1910 Η διάπλαση ενός εθνικού ηγέτη, Cultural Foundation of the National Bank of Greece, 1992).  I left in the sentence:
:The majority of contemporary estimates calculate the number of Muslim Cretans remaining at the eve of the 20th century at 30,000, 9% of the island's population.
and tagged it with  since there was no source given for it.
Could you please explain your deletions? Thanks.  --Macrakis 22:15, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Conversions

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thread_title:  Move discussion in progress