Talk:RTFM

message: At one time IBM, MIT and several other organizations had rtfm servers. The gopher://rtfm.ibm.com server had redbooks and instruction manuals for employees and presumably customers to access. 64.9.130.100 (talk) 23:37, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  RTFM Server 

message: ..I'd see a good reason to make JFGI as a seperate page as google'ing in this sentence doesn't mean so much using google but using a proper search (which for some things a more specific source is needed). I see as word google just representing a "the best search engine" in our time, the sentence is different and needs to be explained in what manner it's commonly used...
also: a link of www.wikipedia.org/JFGI is kindof the point of reading about anything vs. reading the manual (which usually is a pretty stupid idea, atleast on paper with no search)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joelgrass (talk • contribs) 18:48, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: redirected JFGI - just f*cking google it!

message: Look It Up On Wikipedia
too long and unpronounceable, try GSW as Go Search Wiki XOR Google Search Wiki  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.183.0.91 (talk) 13:21, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: I propose a new term to be used:  "LIUOW"

message: Could we use a new page for SFTW?  --CalPaterson 10:24, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: SFTW

message: maybe think about putting reference to the knowledge base application would be appropriate.
http://www.bestpractical.com/rtfm/  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.101.103.127 (talk) 00:19, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: RTFM - Request Tracker Knowledge Base

message: I landed here due to the redirect. I was quite surprised to find said redirect.
Does anyone (besides myself) feel that "Google is your friend" isn't necssaraily an insult (or meant as one)?
Personally, I myself use it every so often.
Why? Because in order to answer the person's question I, in fact, did a Google search.
My answer to their question begins with "Google is your friend :)" (hyperlinked to the URL of the Google search I did in the case of web forums), followed by a link (or links) to what I found through the search.
The link(s) of course is/are what I feel to be good answers to the person's question.
"Google is your friend", with no other useful information is indeed an insult. But also including what one found through one's "friend" is not.
Google is your friend needs it's own article.--angrykeyboarder (a/k/a:Scott) 04:18, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The Redirect from "[[Google is your friend]]"

message: Shouldn't this be in Wiktionary? And if I move it there, is there a way to make an interwiki redirect? Uncle Ed 19:56, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The criticism section makes it encyclopedic. Also you would have to add all of the related terms as well... - Ravedave 00:56, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no criticism section anymore. Rudyon (talk) 19:16, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Move

message: The article makes it sound as if this is an "internet term".  I have been a professional programmer since 1978 and I probably first heard this phrase in 1978 or 1979, back when the internet was the ARPANET, and very few people had access to it, or even heard of it.--Rogerd 23:10, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: "RTFM is an initialism for the statement "Read The Fucking Manual". This instruction is usually given in response to a question that can be answered easily by reading relevant documentation, and suggests that the inquirer may be wasting people's time." - Doesn't say anything about the internet. "Related Terms" mentions the internet, but not RTFM. I am sure the term was probably around even before the internet. If you can find documentation on when the term first appeared please add it to the article - Ravedave 00:53, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not a new term 

message: Does this mean "hacker" in the traditional sense? That is, internet criminals? Or simply technophiles in general? The article is confusing only in that sense.
However, familiar with RTFM, I simply find the rest of it utterly humourous :P Kareeser|Talk! 02:45, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You are confused about the traditional sense, as a "hacker" meant someone who was so good with computers that a problem could be fixed. Ronabop 11:02, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The use of the word "hackers" 

message: I alway thought this meant "Remove The Fucking Monitor".  No wonder it never made since... 
Anyways, may I suggest that the "Relate Terms" section be moved down near the "See Also" section?  I would do it myself, but I thought I would ask to see if anyone else agreed with me. --Lewk_of_Serthic
*No-one disagreed. Therefore, Sir Lewk, your wish is my imperative. Minmi 12:30, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ohh... 

message: What's the purpose of the sentence "although new users may not know how to properly access the manual" in the end of the first paragraph? For me, it is not informative and can be safely removed.
It sounds as if someone were trying to justify one question that got a RTFM response.
Samuelrivas 06:48, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, the first paragraph should define the subject of the article in a succinct way. While I realise some object to the usage of term, the sentence do not belong in the first paragraph. I am therefore removing it. Bergsten 10:16, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sentence in first paragraph 

message: WTF, merge it. ;-) Lou Sander 20:41, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  RTFQ 

message: Speaking of which, it is interesting to note that ftp://rtfm.mit.edu.au was the primary site for UseNet FAQ archive. --DavidHOzAu 04:14, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Needs an [[etymology]] section... 

message: * Oppose. These are two different terms. {Slash-|-Talk} 06:17, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger 

message: When I looked it up, the article said it stood for "Read The Fine Manual" which I've never heard before. Assuming whoever said it meant that just didn't like to swear I've put it to "F*cking". "Fine" is even in the list of alternate words to use instead of the F-word, so that didn't make much sense.Porty 13:03, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd call that a misinformed vandalism. :) --Gvy (talk) 13:41, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'm pretty sure Read the Fine Manual has always been the polite form...  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.107.127.174 (talk) 22:14, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree and I added it to the text. It would be strange to not mention this polite form at all (as was the case at this moment... ) Yvolution (talk) 14:23, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  I just seen "Read the Fantastic Manual" on Debian wiki page... Not that meaningful to add all the possible combinations to the list, there are already many possible combinations just by replacing "Fucking" with another "F?????", even just to make this sentence more polite, ei? --111.163.121.166 (talk) 15:19, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  "F*cking" vs "Fine" 

message: I take exception to the assertion that this term was recently coined, or is an internet phenomenon.  My father was a Marine Corps officer, and told me many years ago (at least back in the 1980s) that RTFM was military slang for Read The Field Manual, referring to the (excessively long) documentation that accompanies every piece of military hardware and/or action.  Embarassingly, I have no sourcing for this other than the word of my (now deceased) father, but given the timeframe during which I was told (and, at least to me, the reliability of my source) I don't know that this article is factually correct.  Suggestions?  /Blaxthos 17:54, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origins (factual error?) 

message: Although, of course, there is the argument that users don't read manuals because designers, knowing that users don't read them, don't bother to make them very useful. Regardless of original cause, this problem will be mitigated as the 'intelligent in context help' paradigm comes into play.
I call bullshit and flamebait. 'Bob the dog' and 'Clippy'. Need I say more?
If so, I'll say that this is an assumption that certainly is not universally agreed to. Least of all the people that tell other people to RTFM. Therefore, I make it an unbalanced and opinionated prediction. 85.178.89.61 22:24, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  intelligent in-context help 

message: The original collection of FAQ documents at MIT at ftp://rtfm.mit.edu should be mentioned in the usage section since it's been a major usage of the term, and contributes to the term's meaning.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.191.217.11 (talk) 22:45, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  MIT's RFTM collection of FAQs 

message: The related terms section needs to get cleaned up. As it stands it is an unsourced list of acronyms, related or unrelated to the article. Including about 10 different variations of RTFM ("Read The Fucking Manual Asshole", really?) and this gem "Use The Fucking Wikipedia". I'm sure we can find sources to cite for the well known acronyms (RTFA, FTA, FGI, TFA) and that is all that should really be on the page. I also think the bottom matter (newspaper, etc) should be placed in a new section (e.g "Other Uses") and properly cited. BJTalk 10:35, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Related terms 

message: In the mid 80's I worked with Vax/VMS systems by Digital.  There were dozens of volumes of loose leaf binder manuals.  They were amazing.  Well organized, comprehensive, and relatively easy for a motivated newb.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.216.251.92 (talk) 18:31, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Digital used to have amazing manuals 

message: 128.180.213.194 (talk) 01:19, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Why is RTFM censored?

message: Now, don't get me wrong... I'm no wowser but when I went to school "RTFM" stood for "Read The Flamin' Manual", and it was (and is) bluddy good advise, which I should really take up much more often. 
Ya see, us Ozzies have been swearin' full on and flat out for near on 250 years now ... I mean whaddaya reckon six months in a leaky boat (for daring to eat) would do for __your__ outlook life, and your vocabulary? ... So yeah, practice, practice, practice... and we reckon we might know a thing or two about it by now! 
So I'm here to bluddy tell ya'!!! A big part of being good at bluddy swearin' is "Time and Place"... And I gotta tell ya' the "Fucking" in "Read The Fucking Manual" is outta place... "Fucking" simply has no place in the context of a meaningful helpful useful Wikipedia article! (Unless of course (as previously noted) The "Fucking Manual" in question happens to be the Karma Sutra... read it: seriously, it's an eye-popper-anna-arf).
When I direct a noob here, I'm attempting to "give 'em a clip round the ear 'ole" (for being a putz), as apposed to a "punch in da 'ead" (for being an asshole)... so Yeah, to me "Flamin'" would be much more appropriate than the full on "Fucking" variety... I just don't thinks it's called for. I don't think it adds anything, and is therefore (by definition) superflous, where-as "Flamin'" carries the exact right note... at least it does in this part of the world.
I actually started to edit the article to "fix" this oversight, then I asked myself "Who made you the last word on it", so I'm posting this here comment, trying to get a discussion off the ground... and if this here discussion fails to get itself off the ground, then I reckon I'll just go Fix the effin effer my very effin self... Because if it's one thing I know about... It's how to cuss, properly!
~~ Cheers. Keith ~~
I am an American and am in complete agreement on this point - "RTFM" (and related terms like "WTF?" and maybe even "FUBAR") seem to me to be lower-level cuss words - more of a moderate swear word, less than a full-blown offensive cursing. 
Although some people react very negatively to these terms, my (thoroughly uneducated) guess is that those people would also react negatively to the more moderate alternative terms like "flaming", "frigging", "freaking", etc. and thus the use of "fucking" here overstates the strength of the term RTFM. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.176.200.253 (talk • contribs) 
::: Bit confused by this. The term is RTFM, not Read The Fucking Manual, sure RTFM is an initialism deriving from the term, but they are different. Unless you are one of the people who automatically expand all initialism in their head, so USA becomes United States of America, and DNA... well you get the point. The initialism obscures the vulgarity (incidentally, it is more precisely vulgarity rather than profanity), and without having an etymology it is possible that it was first used as an initialism with this purpose (to obscure the vulgarity) and likely much mirth was derived explaining the meaning of the initialism to the noob, but this is speculation. So, the linguistic reality is that RTFM does not equal Read the Fucking Manual. 60.240.207.146 (talk) 02:36, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is the (full on) profanity necessary 

message: UTSL (Use The Source, Luke) redirects here, but isn't mentioned on this page?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kelly.terry.jones (talk • contribs) 19:55, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  UTSL 

message: I removed the following external link:
* Let Me Google That For You — Check it out :)
While the link was relevant, the link here was clearly just advertising it (I suppose it could be included with a more serious note attached).  Purple Paint 21:41, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  External link to [http://letmegooglethatforyou.com?q=RTFM/ Let Me Google That For You] 

message: If found paragraph Use and overuse a bit confusing. Cited examples are I think well-chosen (Ubuntu+LinuxQuestion.org "no RTFM" policy, How To Ask Questions The Smart Way, Joel's advices how to design user interfaces), but I thing paragraph needs rewording to make clear that cited sources does not speak for/against/about using RTFM in the same context, but that these citations shows how attitude towards RTFM response differs in different contexts.
The sentence "This argument is only applicable when used with other hackers, however, given that the concepts surrounding open source software are designed to be suitable for use by non-hackers" in context it is placed is unverifiable claim and/or original research. It is without source, but it clearly is not general opinion - RTFM is considered valid response towards non-hackers by some people in some situations - see article How To Ask Questions The Smart Way which is referred two sentences before. And it makes general claim about "concepts surrounding open source software are designed...", which is off-topic here and without clarification not true (or precisely non-verifiable) - it is easy to find examples of open source not designed for non-hackers like some command-line tools for programmers or low-level operating system administration. Therefore I recommend to delete this sentence.
However, I am not sure I am the right one to rewrite this paragraph, so first I am expressing my opinions here.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Waeland (talk • contribs) 18:58, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Paragraph "Use and overuse" needs rewording 

message: for some reason "wikipedia is your friend" redirects here.--Spongefrog (talk) 16:19, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Meta moment. RTFA! :-) — ¾-10 03:15, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  ?? 

message: I just wanted to tell you guys that this is a great page.  I found it humorous and helpful.  Perfect length, great info, entertaining and interesting.  The use and overuse section explained both the history and the current internet culture and climate of the terms use.  I really enjoy this page.     Thanks. Bwergg (talk) 08:22, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: comment:

message: The newer section "Context-sensitive factors in determining (in)appropriateness" seems to contain a lot of original research. Whereas some of the individual statements have references, the overall concept doesn't appear to reference a reliable source. Is there, for example, a source which compares RTFM with The Ant and the Grasshopper? --GentlemanGhost (talk) 19:43, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Original research? 

message: nor can I find a reasonable reference for it. nor does it make any sense to me. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=RTFM&diff=next&oldid=443024663
and two subsequent edits
131.130.111.239 (talk) 19:43, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  never heard of RTFSM 

message: BTW: I published a study of FAQs and RTFM as a practice (as it relates to geeks and geek feminists) that folks might want to make use of in the article. -Reagle (talk) 13:07, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting. What's the cite? Would also be nice if you have a pointer to a full-text on-line version. Thanks, --Macrakis (talk) 14:32, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  An academic study of RTFM 

message: Expurgated?  Way too strong.  Half the present value of RTFM is its interesting double life as both "read the fucking manual" and "read the fine manual".  
Not at all atypical text message among geeks:
:Crap! Frobbing the futznitz didn't work. Looks like I'm going to have to RTFM. 
Not at all typical text message among geeks:
:Crap! Frobbing the futznitz didn't work. I must be a faggot. 
The vulgarity of 'RTFM' is extremely circumspect in modern usage as compared to a vulgar-to-the-core word like 'faggot'.  
Diplomacy is full of locutions where the primary value is that they reasonably swing both ways (angry/bemused or encouraging/threatening), because so often in life not drawing out an immediately precise line in the sand is the better part of winning friends and influencing people. — MaxEnt 21:02, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  the double life of RTFM 

message: Add about the commands in this .
Like input and outputs cimmands 111.119.177.56 (talk) 11:15, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggestions 

message: I wish someone wrote about the pitfalls of the RTFM principle. InvestInSuccess (talk) 13:51, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Assuming you have a source for these pitfalls, you are welcome to add a section. Kleuske (talk) 16:11, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism section 

message: Per Thryduulf 's comment at WP:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 January 29#ILYM:   Jay 💬 06:45, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Support - This article fails notability WP:GNG and doesn't have enough WP:RS coverage, so it would be better to have it merged. Cocobb8 (💬 talk • ✏️ contribs) 11:00, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

text: Support - As above, unfortunately many internet slang terms do not have very much coverage in WP:RS unless we greatly relax our expectations. ASUKITE 16:42, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

text: Support per above arguments.  — Paper Luigi T • C 05:06, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text:  Klbrain (talk) 10:48, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed merge of [[UTFSF]] into [[RTFM]] 

message: I got to this article via a redirect from Do your own research, and I have no idea why. "Do your own research" is a catch-cry of conspiracy theorists. It has nothing to do with reading farnarkling manuals. Why does the redirect exist? HiLo48 (talk) 23:58, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Do your own research?