Talk:Georg Konrad Morgen

message: As the article stands now it seems to be very POV
For example it states "At the Poniatowa camp Morgen watched without pity as more than 15,000 prisoners "of all ages and both sexes" went naked to open, self-prepared trenches and were shot:" Obviously he witnessed the event, the text following this is sourced to one of his affidavits in the IMT. 
However I find it very hard to believe that anyone would incriminate oneself so as to in a court affidavit state that they watched "without pity" as mass murder was committed. And what is the point in having this big chunk of text from an affidavit inserted into the text about an individual?
There are more such items inserted biases and possible misinterpretations. And Why is his own explication of his activities not included?
Hoehne in this article accuses him of not doing anything about the mass killings, just acting against corruption, but we hear not a squeek about his own explanation of his acts.
For example, in his testimony at Nuremberg  he states:
The circumstances prevailing in Germany during the war were no longer. normal in the sense of State legal guarantees. Besides, the following must be considered: I was not simply a judge, but I was a judge of military penal justice. No court-martial in the world could bring the Supreme Commander, let alone the head of the State, to court.
...it was not possible for me as Obersturmbannfuehrer to arrest Hitler, who, as I saw it, was the instigator of these orders. 
On the basis of this insight, I realized that something had to be done immediately to put an end to this action. Hitler had to be induced to withdraw his orders. Under the circumstances, this could be done only by Himmler as Minister of the Interior and Minister of the Police. 
I thought at that time that I must endeavor to approach Himmler through the heads of the departments and make it clear to him, by explaining the effects of this system, that through these methods the State was being led straight into an abyss. Therefore I approached my immediate superior, the chief of the Criminal Police, SS Obergruppenfuehrer Nebe; then I turned to  the chief of the Main Office SS Courts, SS Obergruppenfuehrer Breithaupt. I also approached Kaltenbrunner and the chief of the Gestapo, Gruppenfuehrer Muller, and Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl of the Economic and Administrative Main Office, and the Reichsarzt, Gruppenfuehrer Dr. Grawitz. But aside from taking these necessary steps, I saw a practical way open to me by way of justice; that is, by removing from this system of destruction the leaders and important elements through the means offered by the system itself., I could not do this with regard to the killings ordered by the head of the State, but I could do it for killings outside of this order, or against this order, or for other serious crimes. 
For that reason, I deliberately started proceedings against these men, and this would have led to a shake-up of this system and its final collapse. But these activities had another far-reaching effect in the near future, for through the big concentration camp trials against Commander Koch, of whom I spoke earlier, and against the head of the political section at Auschwitz-Kriminalsekretur Untersturmfuehrer Grabner, whom I charged with murder in 2,000 cases outside of this extermination action-the whole affair of these killings had to be brought to trial. It was to be expected that the perpetrators would refer to higher orders also for these individual crimes. This occurred; thereupon the SS jurisdiction, on the basis of the material which I supplied, approached the highest government chiefs and officially asked, "Did you order these killings? Is the legal fact of murder no longer valid for you? What general orders are there concerning these killings?" Then the supreme State leadership would either have to admit its mistakes and thereby bring the culprits definitely under our jurisdiction also with regard to the mass exterminations, or else an open break would have to result through the abrogation of the entire judicial system.
--Stor stark7 Speak 21:08, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  While prosecuting Birkenau, Morgen had established that the order of annihilation had clearly originated at "T3" (next door to "T4"), which is Tiergartenstrasse 3, Party Chancellery, i.e. Hitler himself. He says so under scrutiny in a 2 hour witness testimonial Ff/M during the 1963 Frankfurt upon Main trial on Auschwitz. Powers were delegated to Gestapo-Müller who angrily shouted at Morgen first, later was brought onboard by Morgen while visiting the office of Gestapo-Müller in Berlin (RSHA). So operating inside of whatever was left of a legal framework, stopping the genocide was technically impossible, unless Hitler found the Führer Adolf H. guilty as the head judge. Morgen did not think this was likely going to happen, though he still could have gone for this goal, of course.
Uujjuu (talk) 17:01, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV 

message: I've lifted out this text from his affidavit to the cort, from the article, because it ads nothing about the person. It is better suited in the article about the massacre itself, said article to which we can link to if a secondary source has found it relevant to his person. But the chiunk of text ads nothing and makes the article harder to read.
"it was the usual, tested procedure....A company of unarmed Ukrainian police trainees arrived who formed only a security cordon and had nothing more to do with it, while a single Order Police officer holding a small-calibre weapon waited at the far end of each trench, accompanied by two or three others to charge magazines and take turns carrying out the executions. So the entire operation was carried out by only a very few police. Meanwhile the camp inmates - 6,000 Jews and 9,500 Jewesses -left their quarters and assembled voluntarily at the near end of the trenches. Here they handed over their personal effects - money, documents, wristwatches, and so forth - while the women and girls removed their jewelry. Husbands and wives, mothers and daughters made their farewells and waited quietly; none were mistreated before execution. When their time came, the inmates undressed and began to enter the trenches, both sexes completely naked and running one behind another in orderly, infinite lines. The men went first, into one trench, and later the nude women had their own separate trenches....All passed silently and methodically through the trenches, so the executions went very quickly."Morgen affidavit in IMT (Red Volume series), Supplement Volume B, pp. 1309-11 
--Stor stark7 Speak 21:15, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Morgen affidavit in IMT

message: I checked the source cite and the names and dates used before were correct, so I reverted them back and they are the same in the source (cited). The ip change to the german spelling for Hoess I agree with, so Höss was retained by re-insert. Further, the fact a building containing the evidence was burned down was correct per the source cited so I re-added back in that point, only changing his word of "warehouse" to "building". I also did some grammar and presentation clean up which was needed overall. Kierzek (talk) 19:48, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent ce 

message: Is there a mistake with Morgen Morgan? --Buchbibliothek (talk) 10:25, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Foto 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This heading seems too cryptic. Part of the problem is that the article does not explain, even briefly, the legal system of Nazi Germany, so it doesn't make clear what the scope of an SS judge's authority was to investigate, prosecute, and/or indict. Were SS judges, in effect, investigators, prosecutors, judges (and juries) rolled into one person? At the very least, the heading should be expanded to "Persons Indicted by Morgen."Redound (talk) 16:14, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  The section heading "Indicted" 

message: Hallo, could  be the aforesaid indicted (in absentia). Lotje (talk) 13:30, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''Hauptscharführer'' Blanck