Talk:Grand cru

message: As a corollary, the current "Beer section" and the sources used (primarily a beer rating site like yelp or cellartracker) is not really providing anything of encyclopedic merit. It doesn't explain why these beers are listed as "Grand cru", what this designation means, how is it obtained, etc. It merely presents the fact that some brewery choose to market their beers as such as is really just a borderline WP:ADVERT for those beers. The California branch of Mumm uses the designation "prestige" to signify its higher level sparkling wines (as does a few other producers). It would be inappropriate and a clear advert to include information about this marketing in the prestige article with a link to cellartracker or something. Now if there was some reliable sources commenting on the Who/What/When/Where/Why/How in regards to this marketing, then maybe a mention of Mumm Napa Brut Prestige would merit inclusion in the prestige article--but that's a little bit of a stretch. AgneCheese/Wine 06:33, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The only reason those links are in the article at all is to establish that those exist. I would happily tuck them all away in a single reference if you like. You're right that the current amount of space dedicated to beer given your concerns is too much. We could even collapse the whole section into a single sentence mentioning its use in Belgian beer. Having said that, I think it might be nice to say something like "for example, Rodenbach Grand Cru", with that one chosen because it received Michael Jackson's maximum rating of 4 stars. I'm not looking for beer to have equal billing with wine here, just a mention that the term is also used. -Oreo Priest talk 13:39, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I personally found those examples illuminating. If it is felt that the beer section has too much relative space, I think beefing up the wine section would be more appropriate. Wakablogger2 (talk) 17:21, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: For me, it's definitely not a matter of allocating space to wine's favour. It's a matter of holding writing on other beverages and food products to the same Wikipedia standards. The has been much thought given by WP:WINE to what is encyclopedic wine content - see for example Wikipedia:Notability (wine topics) and Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a wine guide. Much of this should have its parallel in other beverage areas. Tomas e (talk) 12:22, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I've been convinced that the beer section is presently too large, regardless of the size of the wine section. For the rest, see above. -Oreo Priest talk 15:18, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: The blurry line of [[WP:ADVERT]]

message: Since it clear that the wine context and the marketing context of Grand cru are two completely different topics, I went ahead and started to splinter article on Grand cru (marketing) which can include its marketing usage in beer, chocolate, etc. Feel free to expand that article with whatever details you think are necessary. There is a DAB note at the top of this article so that any reader who may be interested in this marketing usage can easily find that article. AgneCheese/Wine 18:22, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmmm. Still seems like a bit of a strange solution to me, but the page you created looks pretty good. I still am not sure the term "marketing" is the most appropriate one; to me that evokes images of some sort of deliberate campaign rather than an ordinary adjective for a product. I think this solution is a workable one, though I would like to change instances of "marketing" in the DAB header and article name to something else. Ideas? -Oreo Priest talk 18:32, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: [transferred by OP from talk page] I agree with you that "marketing" is completely wrong. Not only does it not match the facts, but it limits future expansions of "grand cru," which will doubtlessly occur. How about "grand cru (other)"? Best regards. Wakablogger2 (talk) 20:21, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm toying with the idea of Grand cru (food and drink). Thoughts? -Oreo Priest talk 23:21, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I've moved it due to relative radio silence. If there's any issue, we can continue to discuss it here. -Oreo Priest talk 00:04, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Situation resolved

message: Capitalization: The capitalization style in this article of "Grand cru" seems odd. Many examples do exist of "Grand Cru," "Grand cru" and "grand cru." As a classification or common adjective, there does not seem to be a reason to capitalize. I recommend changing all to "grand cru." Also, "Premier cru" and "Lambic" should be decapitalized unless there is a particular reason for their capitalizations. 
Examples:
* [] One of the most prestigious Bordeaux wine estates yesterday joined the race for a stake in China's growing wine industry, announcing that it would invest in vineyards in the Far East to produce a "Chinese grand cru".
* Formerly a way of living for olive orchard farmers and passed from generation to generation, the quest to produce one's own version of grand cru olive oil is now a quest for celebrities. (I cannot provide this link because it is blocked by Wikipedia. Wakablogger2 (talk) 19:51, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I back changing everything to grand cru. I took care of Premier cru and Lambic. -Oreo Priest talk 22:31, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Capitalization