Talk:Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham

message: I'm French speaking so I'm not going to make edits on the main page about how to pronounce an English word.
In my life, I've hear it pronounced Brou-Gam and Broug-Ham... while most of us here knows it's more like Broom. I tried my hand making an IPA string : () or (). But don't take my word for it, please check the "Current British English searchable transcriptions" at http://seas3.elte.hu/cube/index.pl?s=Brougham&t=&syllcount=&maxout=&wfreq=0-9&grammar= it takes a while to show any results but when they show, click on the Play button and you'll get a bunch of YT clips, clicking next each time you hear "Broom".
Netweezurd (talk) 00:17, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation 

message: There needs to be ONE Article covering 60 Special, Fleetwood 60 special, Fleetwood Brougham, Fleetwood 60 Special Brougham, and Fleetwood. All of these names refer to the SAME model over time (with the partial exception of the FWD abominations of 1985-1992-93).
Cadillacmike (talk) 14:27, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know. It started out as just a bit about the '65-76, and eventually it grew into this. It looks like there's a bunch of stuff about the Eldorado in there for some reason. If you can figure this out, please do. --Sable232 02:20, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  60 Special 

message: Although the wikipedia Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham page contained no missinformation concerning the downsize of 1977 almost all of the other pages on GM full size models did. For the sake of consistency I'm adding a table of comparisons.
Here are the usual facts for four door models (which can easily be found in sales brochures and data books):
1971-1976
Headroom f/r 39.2/38.3
Legroom f/r 41.9/44.6
Shoulder room f/r 62.1/64.0
Luggage cap. (cu. ft.) 15.9
1977-1979
Headroom f/r 39.0/38.1
Legroom f/r 42.0/41.2
Shoulder room f/r 59.4/59.4
Luggage cap. (cu. ft.) 19.5
The EPA has published annual fuel economy guides since 1978. These guides categorize cars based on "interior space" which is defined as the sum of passenger volume and trunk or cargo volume. For example a midsize car has 110 to 119 cubic feet of interior space and a full size has 120 or more. Passenger volume is computed by finding the product of headroom, legroom, and shoulder room for both front and rear, converting each to cubic feet, rounding to the nearest cubic foot and then summing them.
For example the 1977-1979 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham has 39.3x42.0x59.4 = 97,297.2 cubic inches of passenger room in front. Dividing this by 1728 cubic inches per cubic feet yields 56.3 cubic feet of front passenger room. It has 38.1x41.2x59.4 = 93,241.4 cubic inches of passenger room in rear. Dividing this by 1728 cubic inches per cubic feet yields 54.0 cubic feet of passenger room. Rounding to the nearest foot and adding them yields 110 cubic feet of passenger volume.
Now turn to any 1978-1979 EPA fuel economy guide and what you'll usually find is this for a Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham:
BODY TYPE/INTERIOR SPACE PASSENGER/TRUNK OR CARGO(CU.FT.) 4DR-110/20
EPA fuel economy guides obviously did not exist in 1971-1976 but repeating this calculation for a 1971-1976 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham yields 122 cubic feet of passenger volume. Thus the interior space of a four door 1977-1984 Cadillac Sedan de Ville is 110 + 20 = 130 cubic feet whereas the interior space of a four door 1971-1976 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham is 122 + 16 = 138 cubic feet. Thus clearly the 1971-1976 has more interior space than the 1977-1984.
The main reason for the difference is of course shoulder room and the difference between 62.1 inches of shoulder room and 59.4 inches is dramatically obvious to anyone who has seen both cars. It's also why it's width that makes a roomy car roomy and not length.
This also underscores the fact you cannot shorten a car by over a foot, make it narrower by over 3 inches, lose nearly 900 pounds and not lose interior room.
I know that the GM ads of the time pushed the idea that the 1977 full size cars were just as roomy despite the drastic downsizing. This usually involved mentioning (trivial) increases in headroom or legroom from the previous year. (Interestingly, by odd coincidence, most full size GM models experienced correspondingly small decreases in headroom or legroom in the two years before the downsized models were unveiled.) However, nobody took it seriously then because anyone could see that there was a substantial decrease in room. And besides all of the interior dimensions were published in the sales brochures and data books for anyone to see.
I can only guess that someone has an agenda and is bent on promoting 33 year old sales propaganda. It is a vain hope of mine that wikipedia will someday be a source of factual historical automotive information.
Sadowski (talk) 19:18, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Downsize of 1977 

message: The "Fleetwood Brougham" combination only dates back to 1965. And it only applies to four door models. And it was retired after 1996.
I suppose this is partly Cadillac's fault due to their inconsistent use of names. 
The Fleetwood Brougham is effectively the descendent of the Sixty Special Fleetwood. (Cadillac used a 133" wheelbase off and on from 1942-1976 and always for one or the other.) I recommend limiting the content to 1965-1996. I also recommend including a subarticle about Fleetwood Brougham in the page on the Sixty Special but no doubt the Sixty Special purists would object. 
All of the other stuff about Fleetwood Eldorados or Eldorado Broughams should be put elsewhere or deleted. 
Sadowski (talk) 04:24, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  This Article is an Enourmous Mess