Template talk:Welcome/Archive 4

message: 
Please change Welcome! to ==Welcome!== so that this template will show up as part of the table of contents once users have multiple talk threads, instead of always hovering above to table of contents.  Thanks. -- Reinyday, 17:38, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree with this change.  I like having the welcome notice appear above the TOC.  Powers 18:10, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I also disagree. There is  that can be used for a welcome with headers. Additionally, users can edit their talk page to add a header above the welcome if they want, no need to template this. Kusma (討論) 23:30, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Reinyday: ==Welcome!== is better in the template.  I would have done it myself, but the page is protected. Why is this page protected? Travb (talk) 07:31, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

text: There is no consensus for this change, so I will not make it.  The template is protected because it is a high risk template used on many pages. —Mets501 (talk) 13:39, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

text: That's exactly what I was thinking of. All of the other templates have proper headings as well --WikiSlasher 07:22, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I prefer the current setup, as otherwise the TOC would begin showing up at the top of the page, which, imo, is not as visually appealing as having a nice Welcome! there. Timrem 05:57, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Formatting change

message: As mentioned above:
 Please change Welcome! to ==Welcome!== so that this template will show up as part of the table of contents once users have multiple talk threads, instead of always hovering above to table of contents. 
Why is this page protected? Travb (talk) 07:33, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no consensus for this change, so I will not make it.  The template is protected because it is a high risk template used on many pages. —Mets501 (talk) 13:39, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

text: That's exactly what I was thinking of. All of the other templates have proper headings as well --WikiSlasher 07:22, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I prefer the current setup, as otherwise the TOC would begin showing up at the top of the page, which, imo, is not as visually appealing as having a nice Welcome! there. Timrem 05:57, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Welcome

message: I think we should change  to , because that would solve the problem where a user archives, and it shows the name of the archive. --GeorgeMoney T·C 01:54, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello? --GeorgeMoney (talk) (Help Me Improve!) 20:16, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well, I think this is the kind of problem which a user should solve on his/her own. Most people delete the welcome template anyway, and besides, how many people care about such a small detail in their archives? (and if they care, they can fix it :) Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 21:29, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As the change has some advantages and no obvious disadvantages, I have implemented it. Kusma (討論) 20:37, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  <nowiki>{{PAGENAME}} to {{BASEPAGENAME}}</nowiki> 

message: Please fix the link for Wikipedia:How to write a great article to avoid the redirect to Wikipedia:Article development. -- Reinyday, 04:25, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Kusma (討論) 20:37, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: link fix

message: ... may be a little unclear about signing contributions. I ran across a user (User:Saxophobia) who did not note that the advice about signing was referring only to talk pages. I've notified him and removed his/her sigs from articles, but I think the welcome message could be a bit clearer in this respect. Since the template is protected, an admin has to do this... Greetings, --Janke | Talk 08:30, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you suggest how the clarified text should look like? I think the current text is rather clear enough. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 14:59, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Simply by stating that contributions to articles should not be signed, i.e. :
* Please sign your name on talk pages (but not in articles) using four tildes (~~~~)
Greetings, --Janke | Talk 15:29, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I think the link to Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages is sufficient here. Problems with users signing their articles are rare, and the welcome message should stay as short as possible. No need for WP:BEANS. Kusma (討論) 00:56, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Agree with Kusma. In my experience, trying to safeguard against all possible ways a person can screw up is a losing battle. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 01:51, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  OK, just thought I'd mention it. I've seen other editors sign, too, but as you say, it is not a very common mistake. --Janke | Talk 06:30, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:   Clarification on signing contributions 

message: If we change  to {{subst:PAGENAME}} that will make it automatically substitute the page name when it is added to a page, so that if a user looks at the page source and sees the welcome message they will actually see their name there and not think like it was placed automatically. —Mets501 (talk) 01:51, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That breaks even worse if the template is not subst'ed. See many threads above with the same idea. Kusma (討論) 13:25, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  <nowiki>{{sub<includeonly>st:</includeonly>PAGENAME}}</nowiki> 

message: Could an admin please add a link to Wikipedia:Quick guide. This provides very basic markup and is primarily directed at new users who aren't used to formatting articles, and as such seems very appropriate for a welcome template. It would avoid users hunting through help documentation just to find a simple command. I edited  myself to show how it could be incorporated. This link would also be appropriate in  and . Cheers -- Gareth Aus 08:54, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd rather suggest you integrate that guide into Wikipedia:How to edit a page. For now, in the welcome template we have Wikipedia:How to edit a page, Wikipedia:Tutorial, and Help:Contents. I think that is already too many pointers on how to get an article started. Ideally, Wikipedia:Tutorial should also be merged with Wikipedia:Quick guide and Wikipedia:How to edit a page, to form a single page for first-time help, with Help:Contents being the ultimate reference. That's my view at leat. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 15:09, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia:Quick guide is just a cheatsheet for a very quick lookup. Wikipedia:How to edit a page is far longer, more detailed and complex. It virtually duplicates Help:Editing. There is a link at the bottom of the quick guide to Help:Editing. This could replace the link to How to edit a page in this template (I could change the quick guide link to How to edit a page). Certainly something needs to be done about Wikipedia:How to edit a page & Help:Editing. -- Gareth Aus 09:21, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  How about Wikipedia:Tutorial? And I am not sure we need a Wikipedia:Quick guide, as Wikipedia:How to edit a page is rather quick to read too. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 14:58, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Wikipedia:Quick guide is good because it's not bogged down with reams of prose... /wangi 15:03, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Good point. But something must be done about the proliferation of "editing for newcomers" pages which duplicate content. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 21:56, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quick Help 

message: How to write a great article needs to be changed to Article Devlopment. Treebark 22:27, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, "How to write a great article" looks like a better name than "Article development" to me. Maybe that page could be moved back to the old name? Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 22:56, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  How to write a great article

message: As has been pointed out on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Votes for deletion (2nd nomination), most newbies don't know about Help:Contents. Yes, there's the help button, but why not give them two chances at it? Septentrionalis 00:26, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Please include

message: Please add this:
af:Sjabloon:Welkom
ar:قالب:ترحيب
ast:Plantilla:Bienvenida
bg:Шаблон:Добре дошли
bn:Template:স্বাগতম
br:Patrom:Degemermat nevez
bs:Šablon:Kahrimandobrodosli
ca:Plantilla:Benvinguda
cs:Šablona:Vítejte
cv:Шаблон:Ырă сунса кĕтетпĕр
da:Skabelon:Velkommen
de:Vorlage:WillkommenMitTips
el:Πρότυπο:Καλωσόρισμα
eo:Ŝablono:Bonvenon
es:Plantilla:Bienvenido usuario
et:Mall:Teretulemast
eu:Txantiloi:Ongietorria
fa:الگو:خوشامد
fi:Malline:Tt
fr:Modèle:Bienvenue nouveau
gl:Template:Benvida
he:תבנית:ברוך הבא
hi:Template:स्वागत
hr:Predložak:Dobrodošlica2
hu:Sablon:Üdvözlet
id:Templat:Selamatdatang
io:Template:Bonveno
is:Snið:Velkomin
it:Template:Benvenuto
jv:Cithakan:Sugengrawuh
ka:თარგი:ახალი მომხმარებელი
kn:ಟೆಂಪ್ಲೇಟು:ಸುಸ್ವಾಗತ
ko:틀:환영합니다
la:Formula:Salve
lb:Template:Welcome
lt:Šablonas:Welcome
mk:Шаблон:Добредојде
ml:Template:Welcome
mr:Template:Welcome
ms:Templat:Selamatdatang
nap:Template:Bemmenuto
nl:Sjabloon:Welkom
nn:Mal:Velkomst-reg
no:Mal:Reg-velkommen
oc:Modèl:Benvenguda novèl
os:Шаблон:Салам
pl:Szablon:Witaj2
pt:Predefinição:Bem vindo
ro:Format:Bunvenit
ru:Шаблон:Welcome
simple:Template:Welcome
sl:Predloga:Pozdrav
sk:Šablóna:Vitajte
sr:Шаблон:Добродошао
sv:Mall:Intro
ta:வார்ப்புரு:Newuser
tr:Şablon:Hoşgeldin
uk:Шаблон:Welcome
ur:Template:Newuser
vec:Template:Benvegnù
vi:Tiêu bản:Hoan nghênh
yi:מוסטער:שלום עליכם
zh:Template:Welcome
zh-yue:Template:Welcome
Mosca2 10:30, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Interwikis 

message: The  system isn't really working.  There are only about 20 per day, and yet the responses are quick and effective.  So, instead of sayin on the tag that someone will respond "shortly", I propose we use a more quantitative measurement, like "someone will probably show up within 10 minutes".  This will add more confidence to anyone wanting to use "helpme", and is well within our capabilities for response time. AdamBiswanger1 00:07, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, but instead with 15 minutes, and maybe saying something like "will probably answer in 15 minutes, but it might take longer" --Deenoe 15:37, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Personally, I think we all talk to each other using templates too much already.  I don't think we should promote using  more than we already are, and I think that the template already has enough ways of getting help, all of which are valid.  JYolkowski // talk 16:03, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "helpme" offers wikipedians a chance to give personalized help to newcomers.  This is precisely the opposite of communicating with a template, so I'm not sure what you mean by that AdamBiswanger1 16:42, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed change for <nowiki>{{helpme}}</nowiki> 

message: Am I the only person who finds it odd that the template is undated?  I often find myself looking at the first entry on a user's talk page to get a quick idea of how long they have been editing for.  Admittedly, a user may have been editing for a short while before someone notices and welcomes them, but dating the first entry seems a natural thing to do.  After all, almost all other entries on the talk page will be dated. --MichaelMaggs 21:47, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Personally, I don't see the need, since signing with ~~~~ will produce a date.  JYolkowski // talk 21:59, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree with JYolkowski. I would add that it would be bad style if a welcoming user would not sign his welcome. After all, although the links in the welcome template are indeed useful, what primarily matters is the personal touch, that an experienced user took the trouble to welcome a newbie. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 22:57, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adding a date? 

message: Can we add a link to WP:MOTTO —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Geo.plrd (talk • contribs) .
: I would disagree with that. MOTD may be interesting, but eventual is just some trivia. It is good if the welcome template is kept as short as possible and that the links in it be as relevant as possible, otherwise people don't pay much attention to it. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 00:47, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  MOTD 

message: Why don't we just add the four tildes to the template itself? SweetNeo85 00:34, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I often add other comments (like thanking the user for a specific edit) after the welcome. An auto-signature would mean I have to sign twice. Kusma (討論) 12:33, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Adding tildes

message: I got an interesting response where I gave someone the standard welcome template:
:Interesting. I feel fully auto-welcomed after having been here for about six months.
Tim 14:19, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry.  I welcomed you when I saw an entry with an account name and a red linked talk page in my watch list.  However, this account only has 16 edits and oldest is about three and half months ago.  Make that a belated welcome.  Enjoy contributing to Wikipedia. RJFJR 16:43, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  The welcome is good, it was just a bit automanted and souless is all. And as you should well know, there's no need to have an account to contribute to wikipedia, so the account activations not that accurate. Just, in future, try a greeting which doesn't seem to imply "sigh, another newbie" beneath it. I may yet suprise you. Tim 19:24, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Impersonal? Well, I think a standard message intended to be used for welcoming thousands of different users will by its nature be somewhat impersonal. The point of the template is to cover the standard basics. If it gives new users useful information, the template serves it use. Some of us add personal messages before or after the template. I don't think we can please everyone. -- Infrogmation 16:59, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too impersonal? 

message: Can this template please be added to :Category:Welcome templates?  It would be nice to have all the templates in the category.  Perhaps :Template:Anon, :Template:Anon-m, :Template:Welcome2, and :Template:Welcomenh could also be added.  I think that all of them are also protected.  Thanks for your consideration. --After Midnight 0001 02:12, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Done; sorry for the delay. Each page you requested has been added to the category. Thanks! Flcelloguy (A note?) 16:20, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Categorize please 

message: Would it be possible to change the bold heading Welcome! to a proper heading like in . It would make it easier and quicker to welcome users. Lcarsdata (Talk) 19:20, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Done --   Netsnipe  ►  04:47, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

text: You can manually put __TOC__ after the Welcome message --WikiSlasher 06:59, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Heading 

message: Wow, wikipolicy actually change the way I wanted.  I am so shocked and overjoyed. Thanks so much for adding the == == to the template... Travb (talk) 19:52, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Thanks

message: I'd like to propose a short addition - explaining why the Welcome template is being displayed to the user. When I first saw the welcome template, I wondered whether I had done something wrong and was being gently corrected. Something like:
"You are seeing this automated message because you have made (x) edits."
Ronnotel 15:51, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I guess the template is self-explanatory. If a stranger suddenly says "hi" to you on the street, do you always think it is because you did something wrong? :) Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 04:11, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  No, but if a stranger suddenly started giving me a memorized explanation of some of the finer points of the street's use, culture, etc. I might think he was weird, LOL... ----Steve 13:58, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  OK, say you start a new job and are invited to an orientation session by the company.  A staff  at that event puts in your hand a package containing the history of the company, a list of your duties, etc. Does that person have to tell you "Don't worry, this is just a welcome package, we gave it to you because you are new, it does not mean we don't like you, all is cool, just read it when you have time"? I don't think so. :) Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 14:58, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  OK, sorry, I didn't add anything to the discussion except humor.  I'm kinda like that, hehe ----Steve 16:43, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Reason for showing welcome

message: User:Radiant! has suggested that we consider using the welcome templates as a way to advertise Requests for Feedback, a program which is targeted at new users.  Your thoughts are solicited.  --Richard 04:53, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I trully doubt a centralized place for feeback will work for reasons of scale. About adding the link in the welcome template, my primary concern is that the current welcome template is already too big. If it is possible to remove one of the current links and adding instead the requests for feeback link, then I would not be really opposed to that (but I don't think that is necessarily a good idea either). Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 15:40, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal to include Requests for Feedback in the welcome template 

message: Although this service is new - this template would be the perfect place to advertise the Adopt-a-user page. I not yet got anything to do with this project (though hopefully will have soon) - so contact the people who have set up Adopt-a-user if any further questions.
Cheers Lethaniol 17:34, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: While this idea is cute, I don't think it is worth telling each and every new user about it. I think the current links in  are better resources than the "Adopt a user" program. Ultimately the best way to feel at home on Wikipedia is to start contributing to articles and the interaction which follows from that, I would think. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 02:55, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Oleg, although I noticed there's not really any links in the template for what to edit, but rather on how to edit and how to get help. Perhaps we should add something like Wikipedia:Maintenance or another page which includes links to that as well as WP:Adopt. Vicarious 04:27, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Please see debate at Wikipedia:Village pump %28proposals%29#WP:ADOPT and comment there, many thanks Lethaniol 15:04, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal to have link to Adopt-a-User 

message: zh-classical:Template:歡迎 Yao Ziyuan 08:28, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Done; thanks. Flcelloguy (A note?) 02:48, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please add interwiki for zh-classical 

message: I've noticed many bots and users using subst with this template . Should the template be changed too automaticly subst ? (Gnevin 18:42, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Is there a way to do that?  I don't think so, unless it's very new. —Mets501 (talk) 21:33, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Something like , is prob the best way to go (Gnevin 00:53, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  If that is implemented, and the welcomer is sloppy and forgests to subst it and does not check, the welcomed newbie will see that fat red bold text on his talk page. That's not a good idea I think, and there is no huge imperative to have the welcome template subst'ed. A better idea would be I think for a bot to visit user talk pages and quitely subst it every now and then. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 03:08, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  subst:welcome 

message: Is it possible to change the template to link to the user's contributions, i.e. that we change the:
:your contributions
in the first line of the template to something like:
: your contributions
Nephron  T|C 22:49, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that would not be so useful. I think the contributions link is already highly visible, at the very top right of each page, and also on the left sidebar if one is looking at his own user/talk page. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 04:32, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the redundancy is useful 'cause new users may not immediately clue in to the various links at the top and side of the page. Nephron  T|C 01:54, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Reduntancy is good to some extent but if we add the contributions link, the user will see that link in three places. That's too much, and really, the contributions link is not that important. Besides, I'd bet that the users are much more likely to see the current "contributions" link at the very top of the page (next to user name, preferences, etc) rather than look it up in the welcome template. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 16:49, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Linking to contributions in the template... 

message: Is there a way to automate adding  to a user's talk page?  I have a script which adds tabs to the top when I edit a user talk page, but I can't tell what some of them are.  They include "ES", "O", "J", "W-N", "W-A", and "W-A-P".  Something similar that just adds  would be, pardon the pun, welcome. Will (Talk - contribs) 06:29, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Automating welcoming users