Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Archive 10

message: I dunno about you guys, but I really really really hate the retro genre. First of all I dont think its a real genre, and just refers to more of a pop culture view of the games. "Thats an old game, its considered retro!" I move that we strike it from computer and video game genres and all mentions on any game pages.  It may be valid as a descriptor, but not as a genre. As a game like Pac-man is much different than say Battlezone and is also much different than say a game like Qix. Sometiems the argument is made in terms of simplicity, but I find many of todays arcade games to be more simplistic than games were back in 1982. --larsinio (poke)(prod) 18:09, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Retro genre

message: I'm not sure what to do with tese two articles, and which one to merge to, or keep them seperate. I'd say merge to TurboGrafx 16, but doesnt that make it very American-oriented? But if it stays split then were setting a precedent by having seperate Famicom/Super Famicom articles. --larsinio (poke)(prod) 13:43, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe do something like Sega Mega Drive/Sega Genesis? jacoplane 15:37, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have suggested that this merges to TurboGrafx 16/PC Engine, any objections?! --larsinio (poke)(prod) 15:41, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[PC Engine]] and [[TurboGrafx 16]]

message: These categories are redudant IMO. What do you guys think? --larsinio (poke)(prod) 20:34, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have nominated :Category:PC Engine games for deletion. --larsinio (poke)(prod) 15:45, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[:Category:PC Engine games]] and [[:Category:TurboGrafx 16 games]]

message: Why oh why?! --16:16, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: All I can say is I was the instrument of the deletion that came from this decision, which stemmed from another decision. :/ --Syrthiss 16:30, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

text: They seem pretty useless to me. WP:WSS/ST. K1Bond007 17:11, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Why teh hell was [[:Category:Computer and video game stub templates]] deleted?

message: From this page i found this list. We should aim to cover all these games with decent articles. --larsinio 
:I added a couple of things, fixed a couple of errors Coll7 02:40, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a nice list. I could see it being worthy of an article all to itself. In fact, I would LIKE to see such an article. Do I have support?--SeizureDog 15:11, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Video game firsts

message: Recently this link  was presented as evidence as the XBox selling 24 million units but I have become suspicious. I think they are just rounding up the GmaeCube's and XBox's sales data and presenting Sony's 100 million shipped as sold. Does anyone else have any link to support that data? Jedi6-(need help?) 19:41, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I found this for the PS2 sales, but it doesn't have XBox figures (Edit: However, the article does round up on GameCube sales, if this site is right). Nifboy 20:01, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: WE can't use that, that chart is for shipments not sales. Jedi6-(need help?) 18:57, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Depends on how you define "Sales". The console manufacturers sell the consoles to retailers, who turn around and sell them to consumers. So when Sony sells 101 million PS2s (which is how the article words it) that's the same as shipping 101 million PS2s. The number of consoles in consumers' hands is necessarily less than the number shipped. Nifboy 19:14, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sony doesn't release actual sales numbers to my knowledge. Just shipped, which are sold to the retailer. Instead of saying 100 million sold or whatever the number is make sure the word "shipped" is clearly there. Nintendo releases their numbers in their annual and quarterly reports. We should only use that number. I would assume Microsoft does something similar. Surely we should be able to get a first-party source for this and not something from a third-party like CNN or whatever. I would think anyway. K1Bond007 19:17, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Can anyone find the official Nintendo and Microsoft quarterly report. Jedi6-(need help?) 19:21, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Looking through Microsoft's financial reports didn't yield anything useful. Nintendo's, however, has some sales numbers but since my computer hates .pdf files (particularly in mixed languages) I couldn't get much more than the first page. Nifboy 19:38, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: (two Adobe Reader updates later) Yep. The 20.61 million number comes right off page 6 of their Q3 financial report. Nifboy 22:59, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't seem to read it, does it say anything about the DS and Gameboy sales. (I wish Sony and Microsoft gave out data like this, it would simplify everything). Jedi6-(need help?) 23:59, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The list I pointed to earlier pulls numbers right from these financial statements: 14.43M DSs, 74.25 GBAs. Nifboy 01:06, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Console sales data

message: For what it's worth, as of v2.3.0.0 of AWB, we're able to use AWB to tag about 5 pages a minute.  With ~3750 pages left to tag, that's only 12.5 hours of work left.
The procedure is:
# download AWB and run it
# in AWB, choose to make a list from a text file
# click the "make list" button, and paste this URL in:  http://tools.wikimedia.de/~interiot/cgi-bin/queries/AWB/tmp_cvgproj?AWB=.txt (screenshot)
# enable find and replace, with regular expressions, from "^", to "\r\n"
# tell it to skip all articles that already contain ""   (the toolserver tries to remove any that are already tagged, but when the toolserver lags, it will miss those that have been tagged very recently)
# in the AWB menu, uncheck General > Ignore non-existent pages (this option is available as of v2.3.0.0)
# in the AWB menu, click List > Sort alphabetically.
# in the list, pick a letter to start with (I'm starting with "A", others should start with other letters so we don't overlap), and click on the first entry that starts with that letter
# hit "Start the process"
The toolserver list does its best to include all articles we need, and to ignore all pages that have child-project tags on them already (, , , ).  I'd be happy to discuss how the toolserver list works, or tweak it if need be.  But basically, at this point, there really shouldn't need to be much human oversight...  you should be able to more or less click "Save" blindly, if you trust the toolserver list to be working properly.  --Interiot 10:13, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This worked for me earlier but when I try it now it screws up, it just goes through the list automatically, doing nothing to the pages but removing them from the list.  This is right when I hit start the process and all the other steps I did fine. Chris M. 06:51, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: AWB's open-sourciness makes all preventions of this sort pretty useless. cookiecaper (talk / contribs) 06:54, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Talk page template / [[WP:AWB|AWB]] 

message: I had recently created Ozma Wars, and as I normalyl do, uploaded some screenshots. Due to the page not being that long I put the screenshots in a gallery with descriptions. User:Carnildo removed that gallery citing 
"See Wikipedia:Fair use#Policy, point #8. Images in galleries do not illustrate points made in the text of the article.)" He apparently has something against galleries specifically. I checked the policy and it does'nt specifically mention image galleries. The material clearly repreents items that I had talked about in the article, as any user who actually read the article can see. I reverted his change with discussion, and then he reverted back. I have since added some more context on the page, such that the third image is specifically mentioned in the text for contextual purposes. I also wrote on his user page explaining:
:"Galleries are just another way to represent pictures. They should not be seen differently than a thumbnail. Granted it has to apply to the context, but clearly the images in Ozma Wars correspond ot the text. Which is what fair use policy necessitates. In the future it would be better to explain this to people before you arbitrarily remove entire sections from articles, to give vested interest the opportunity to show that the images correspond to the text. Perhaps just by telling them to add comments to the images showing their context. --larsinio (poke)(prod) 20:07, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have experienced the removal of screenshot galleries on more than one occassion with the same fair use rational given in one instance, and in another instance someone told me it wasn't encyclopedic or something. Well, I own a set of World Book Encyclopedias and my grandparents own a set of Encyclopedia Britannica, and both series have dozens of articles with picture galleries. Encyclopedia Britannica online does as well, so I don't know. I think screenshot galleries can really be helpful in illustrating points of the game and also to represent the technology/graphics used. Granted, I support the removal of particularly bad screenshots or excessive (imo more than 8) shots to a gallery, but I am against gallery removal in general. --Naha|(talk) 20:37, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ditto, I have seen it happen across the whole site.  Generally, the rationale is that each unnecessary image weakens the case for "fair use" in the article and on Wikipedia as a whole.  The argument is typically that if the image doesn't illustrate something you are writing about in the article, it should not be included.  So if you have a video game stub, you should only have one image.  If you have a more extensive article, have more.  Have a screen shot of the gameplay when you are talking about gameplay.  If you talk about the awesome graphics, have a screen shot illustrating the awesome graphics, and so on.  Aguerriero 21:13, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Carnildo really has a shoot first, ask questions later attitude towards images as do a few other editors.  Screenshot galleries belong in computer game and console articles.  They contribute to the article and display specific gameplay elements of a game, they are encyclopedic.  If there are too many screenshots, then it's OK for them to be removed, otherwise just revert removals on the spot. - Hahnchen 21:49, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I notice especialyl with fair use issues, that people really think they are right whenever they take upon deletionist activities. I reverted with explanation, and he-reverted, so I had re-reverted. Its just not tha teasy to revert removals all teh time, because you have to win over "hearts and minds" for this. --larsinio (poke)(prod) 22:39, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've notified Carnildo on his talk page about this discussion, since it would be only fair to include his views here. Carnildo does a lot of good work with his User:OrphanBot. Personally I think that the fair use policy is not at all clear about the use of galleries, and that any statement claiming they are or are not allowed is premature. I think it does depend on the context and if images are included that are representative of what is being described in the text and they have good captions then probably it should be ok. However, I'm not at all an expert on American law, so my opinion in this matter is not very relevant. jacoplane 22:48, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You don't need to be an expert in American law.  We go by Wikipedia:Fair use criteria, not by American law.  Jkelly 21:32, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Carnildo also removed it from the GameCube page. Jedi6-(need help?) 23:49, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I realise that. I just don't think the criteria are clear on the use of galleries. jacoplane 22:19, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

text: You might want to take a look at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Computer_and_video_games/archive8#Screenshots_prohibited.3F and Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Computer_and_video_games/archive5#Images.2C_screenshots_.26_fair_use_rationale. - Hahnchen 23:52, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Removal of screenshot galleries

message: User:Someguy0830 has changed the CVG infobox, along with some others.  According to the userpage, it's something that he just does from time to time.  Do we like it?  I personally prefer the old one, I find the contrasting colours makes it easy to read, now there's way too much blue. - Hahnchen 11:32, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah I also dislike the new color scheme. jacoplane 11:35, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

text: It also breaks some articles like Dune II for me in Firefox (the images in the box used to be side-by-side). jaco;plane 11:36, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That may have something to do with the width being changed (I believe). I might try and change it to fix that while you guys decide the other points (colors, etc) yourselves. —Locke Cole • t • c 11:46, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Update: Width change fixed the issue with Dune II. —Locke Cole • t • c 11:48, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok thanks for fixing that. jacoplane 12:34, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Now it actually looks worse. Fredrik Johansson 12:48, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Did Someguy fix anything technical points with his template?  Can we just revert? - Hahnchen 13:47, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Ah, here's the discussion, I was looking at the template talk page. The new version is way too purple for me, and I liked the alternating colors. Pagrashtak 15:20, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Just to chime in, I prefer the old version as well. --Naha|(talk) 17:42, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

text: I just removed it. See my reasoning there. No doubt there was enough opposition. K1Bond007 05:25, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[:Template:Infobox VG]] 

message: Hey all, I created the game development tool article.  Read & edit to your pleasure. :-) — Frecklefoot | Talk 19:56, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Game development tool

message: Ugh. Is it me or did these people die from dehydration/lack of sleep/stupidity? This article seems totally POV to me. jacoplane 13:21, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems silly. It should be under and AfD. Thunderbrand 13:37, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I agree. — Deckiller 13:38, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This seems more like a List of deaths while playing a computer and video game. Jedi6-(need help?) 22:11, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  No kidding?  I'd understand maybe a seizure, but video games don't induce heart attacks... do they? IANAMD -- gakon5
On the same note, this got created today, and should probably be treated in a similar manner: Kim Kyung-Jae. --Naha|(talk) 04:02, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[List of deaths by computer or video game]] 

message: Has this been discussed?  Is there a policy? --Flipkin 18:24, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You just need to source 'em when you upload 'em. -- gakon5 18:47, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

text: As  specifies, "the copyright for it is most likely held by the company that developed the game". So the person that takes the screenshot has no claim. However, as the Wikiproject page says: "Do not upload screenshots that have been watermarked.". jacoplane 18:56, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

text: The difference is that Wikipedia is a non-profit organization. Jedi6-(need help?) 03:18, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well no, actually that is not a relevant distinction, since we do mirror our content on commercial sites like answers.com. For this reason you cannot upload creative commons non-commercial images for example. Well anyway, I'm pretty sure we can claim fair use on images even if they're taken by others. I mean, there are not "professional screenshot takers" who earn their living like professional photographers do. For them, their images are what they sell and live on, so it is not possible to claim fair use on those images, since it takes away the ability for the photographer to sell his work. jacoplane 09:26, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Pretty much agree with Jacoplane here on this issue. - Hahnchen 11:06, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Also agree with Jacoplane. --Naha|(talk) 18:47, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

text: How can gaming websites take presskit screenshots and brand them with a watermark without attribution?  I had always thought that the publishers/developers held the copyright, I see more similarity between a movie screenshot and a gaming screenshot then I do of a game screenshot and a photograph. - Hahnchen 15:05, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They can do it so no one steals their "work".  They are not watermarking the screenshots because they are claiming copyright on them - they are doing it so that people can't get a quick screen shot from them without doing the work.  If they do, the site (like MobyGames) gets a free advertisment wherever the person uses the shot.  The copyright still belongs to the video game publisher. Aguerriero 15:59, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm specifically talking about screenshots which are published by the copyright holders themselves.  If taking screenshots from other sites, like the developers site for example, did not constitute as fair use, then we would not see them mirrored on any other website.  The fact that places like IGN, C&VG et al. are even allowed to punch a watermark onto them seems to verify the fair use claim. - Hahnchen 16:07, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If it was published by the copyright holders themselves, then I'd assume it's a promotional image and give it both tags. Nifboy 17:21, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I do that anyway, but that's not the point.  The point is, that you have no idea whether the site you got it off is the site which took the screenshot, and thus why the only screenshot copyright I respect are the developers/publishers. - Hahnchen 20:00, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Screenshots taken from other websites

message: In recent discussions about some Warcraft III mods, it has been mentioned that there is some kind of "bar of notability". One assumes that people would know whether the mod rises above the bar or not. Apparently, some editors feel every mod is non-notable, while other feel every mod is notable.
I thought, why don't we start with some criteria so that people canhave criteria to measure against? If there's a system, then we can base AfD arguments on that instead of just being forced to debate each one extensively. Some criteria that come to mind that make a mod notable:
:#Article written about the mod in a major gaming magazine or on a major gaming website
:#Mention of the mod on the publisher's website in other than a "fan-submitted" section
:#Tournaments held in the mod which have $X or more in prize money
Does that sound like a few good ones to start? --Habap 18:28, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds OK to me. Mods have to be pretty notable to have their own articles. Thunderbrand 18:46, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Mod notability

message: Since I've been writing several articles on game development tools, I thought it'd be handy to have a template to link them all, much like the game development footer template we created a while back.  But I have some misgivings about it and want to throw them up here at the project:
* Is it overkill?  Do we really need a game development tools footer template?
* Do we now need a Game development tools Category?
* The tools are listed, but the box doesn't explain how the tools are used (e.g. "How does a Wiki relate to game design?).
* Should API be listed?  It's not really a "tool" but a resource.  Plus it relates to all types of programming, not just game programming.  The same could be said for SCM, IDE & Library...
* Should I list the acronyms (e.g. "SDK", "IDE") or go for verbosity and list the full names (e.g. "Software development kit")?
* Should I include the other big role, that of game producer?  Or would it be lame, because it would only have Microsoft Excel (or spreadsheet) and Microsoft Project listed?
* Darn, now the 3D modeler article has to be written (should it be titled something else?).
* Is it too purple?
The Game development tools series	The Game development tools series	The Game development tools series	The Game development tools series	The Game development tools series      	The Game development tools series	The Game development tools series	The Game development tools series
Game design                      	Game design                      	Programming                      	Programming                      	Art                                    	Art                              	Level design                     	Level design
Wiki Word processor              	                                 	API IDE Library SCM SDK          	                                 	3D modeler Photoshop Importer  Exporter	                                 	Level editor                     	
Game development                 	Game development                 	Game development                 	Game development                 	Game development                       	Game development                 	Game development                 	Game development
Any input would be greatly appreciated. :-) — Frecklefoot | Talk 19:09, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The footer may be overkill. I'm not really up on development of games, but I would think there are more 'tools' than that even if this listing is more general. A category would probably take care of this best. Can you really qualify Photoshop as a "game development tool" and if you do then don't you have to list others like PSP, GIMP, and Fireworks? Bullet point #3 is a good question. And.. yeah.. purple :( not a fan. K1Bond007 19:20, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not a fan of that infobox at all.  It's not exactly game specific is it?  IDE? API?  That's just general development.  If you're looking for game development tools, you're not going to look for a word processor are you?  I don't think the template is that necessary of helpful. - Hahnchen 11:47, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Game Development Tools footer template

message: I've noticed that many games have "Retro" listed as their genre in the infobox. This seems pretty silly to me. I changed it at Amidar but then I saw it's much more widespread than that. So I wanted some consensus here before making lots of changes- or maybe somebody with a bot could help out?
The designation "retro" only makes any sense because these articles were written 20 years after the game was published. The game seems retro now, but surely it wasn't designed in order to seem retro. Will World of Warcraft have genre "retro" in 2030? People will think of it as retro, but that's not the genre of the game. It will still be a fantasy MMPORG.
The genre "retro" should only be used (if at all) for games that were deliberately designed to be retro when they were published. There probably aren't many examples- maybe Maelstrom and other Ambrosia Software games that were written specifically to be throwbacks to classic games. A real example (though not very notable) is Peasant's Quest, which was designed to be retro. Staecker 11:55, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I totally agree with you.  These games weren't retro when they were developed--there wasn't even such thing as "retro" back then!  They should be categorized didifferently, according to the type of game they originally were.  I don't know about bots, though. :-( — Frecklefoot | Talk 13:28, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Personally, the only truly "retro" games I can think of are either independently made (i.e. Cave Story, Peasant's Quest, Lyle in Cube Sector), fan-made, or are simply ports and remakes of games that are just plain old. H Hog 14:20, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I don't think retro can be a genre because it hardly describes what the game is.  If I go to the Pac Man article and the genre is "retro", all I can think is "Well, it must be an old game."  Even games like Peasent's Quest: it's a graphical text RPG... not that there's really a market for games like that anyway. -- gakon5
Just wanted to throw in that I do think that there's one instance where the term 'retro' can be used correctly in an article. While it's probably innapropriate (as per above) to call Robotron: 2084 a 'retro' game, I think it's probably safe to refer to its appearence in Midway Arcade Treasures as a 'retro' port, owing to that being the sense in which it was released. --InShaneee 17:44, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

text: IMO the term can certainly be used in an article, just not to define its genre. -- gakon5
OK, I've just cleaned out all the retro genres in the 1980, 1981, 1982 categories. There's probably more though... Staecker 13:15, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Retro? 

message: I've noticed a lot of video game screenshots (mainly when taken from emulators) are out of proportion, due to many consoles and computer video modes using non-square pixels. For example with NES and SNES games the standard resolution is 256x224, which is a pixel aspect ratio of 8:7, which is almost square. However, the actual aspect ratio of the video outputted by these consoles is 4:3 as the pixels are not outputted as square. Unfortunately a computer or anything that renders images on a webpage (assuming the display is set up correctly and the web page does not specify to resize the picture out of proportion) will render the pixels as square - making any of these screenshots look out of proportion, e.g :Image:SuperMarioBrosNESTitle.png which is squashed horizontally.
I propose that in the future (and if possible with all current screenshots showing this issue) that the screenshots be resized to their intended aspect ratio, which is nearly always 4:3 for games using standard TV sets or monitors, 16:9 for games using widescreen displays, or 3:4 for arcade games with vertical monitors. There will be exceptions of course were proprietary monitor systems are used - the Vectrex for example seems to use a 9:11 display. --Zilog Jones 15:55, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Resizing of Screenshots 

message: I think we have a few inappropriately detailed portals, so please see Miscellany_for_deletion/Portal:RuneScape and Miscellany_for_deletion/Portal:StarCraft. Andre (talk) 19:09, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Portals 

message: I would like to create a new article about the Superman Syndrome. From what I've read from the Starlancer site, I think it would be a good addition to the video games project. I was thinking something along the lines of the Stormtrooper_effect. Any suggestions on how to start (I'm still a relatively new member to wikipedia)--Jonthecheet 05:53, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've never heard of it referred to as such. It's really a basic game design principle: Make the player feel like they're the ones accomplishing tasks, not the AI. I suppose a good starting poing would be finding Reliable Sources that you can use to justify your article's existence. Nifboy 06:02, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: While I do see the need for sources, this is the problem with modern gaming terms; they come out of forums. Much like the Stormtrooper_effect (which also does not list sources), the only sources available would be from gaming forums (search either term), which I doubt would qualify as a source by wikipedia standards. However, I feels that this concept, just like the Stormtrooper_effect, has potential to become a good article and thats why I submitted this idea.--Jonthecheet 06:26, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Forums are cited in Stephen Colbert's article, although that discussion was of a different nature than one you're likely to find on a video game forum, and there is a second traditional source citing the same fact (New York Times). Maybe try Urban Dictionary, or Google for some glossary? If there's a need for one, let me know and I'll consider setting up a Wiki for gamer slang, or something like that. cookiecaper (talk / contribs) 06:45, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Superman syndrome 

message: Articles of discontinued systems are written in the past tense, while the articles of systems currently in production are written in the present tense.  Why is it that the Sega Master System's controller "was considered extremely durable", yet the Nintendo Gamecube "uses a unique storage medium"?  For purposes of consistency, all of the game console pages should be written in the same tense (preferably the present tense, since the Master System's controller is still considered durable). Scorpi0n 20:48, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I guess the only reason I can think of because the Master System was released years ago, while the GameCube is still in production. I agree that all articles should use present tense. Thunderbrand 20:43, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tense! (urgent!)

message: The article Resident Evil (series) had had a great deal of work put into it over the past few months. A peer review and a to-do list were submitted/made/archived, but have been deleted. Rather than submit it for another Peer Review, I'd just like to ask the people here what this article needs. Morgan695 01:17, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Two comments before I say anything about the article itself: First, why was the article moved from Resident Evil without making the latter a disambiguation page? Second, images  need Fair Use Rationale, and I see two IGN screenshots; these should be replaced with not-watermarked images, preferably shots taken by Wikipedians. Nifboy 02:30, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

text: I think there should be another sentence in the intro stating the number of different Resident Evil games there have been, spanning x number of different consoles + the PC. Also, maybe another sentence or two about exactly why the series is "credited with popularizing the genre" outside of how many games and other merchandise has been sold. In addition, what makes these games stand out from others in the genre, if anything?  While the introduction shouldn't be overly long - I think it could stand some expansion in these areas. Just get at the bones of what exactly has made this series so successful. --Naha|(talk) 18:47, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Resident Evil (series) ready for FA?

message: This is recent, which is why you have only just heard about it. But anyway Jimmy hath spoken; videogame guides are now officially on death row. Read b:Wikibooks:Staff lounge#Wikibooks is not a depository for video game manuals for more on this.
However there's no need to worry about guides disappearing; the StrategyWiki team (including myself) have made preparations to import all suitable videogame guides. This is not going to be a half-hearted history cut-'n'-paste like transwiki bots do either, instead the authentic full edit histories will be imported directly from database dumps thanks to the excellent MWDumper.
When the time comes we will need all the help we can get updating the articles here. While the pages on Wikibooks will exist for a time as soft redirects, eliminating the wasted step is a top priority. GarrettTalk 11:56, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm glad someone is on top of this, Garrett, it would be a shame for the good information among the wikibooks to be lost. I'd volunteer to help now, but nearing the end of a semester in college I'm quite busy. I will try to remember to give StrategyWiki a head's up when I have more time. Thanks for keeping us up to date. --Naha|(talk) 13:13, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Well this kinda sucks, but I didn't really contribute much to the CVG Bookshelf anyway. -- gakon5 20:04, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Just because theres not much contributions now to the wikibooks doesnt mean there wont be in the future. YOu have to think that once these articles are stabilized and there isnt that much work to be done, the place for extra information to write would be the wikibooks. CVG guides definately fall into wikibooks, you just have to watch out for peopel copy pasting from sources like gamefaqs. I think we should move extra game info to wikibooks, like in that WOw example that is discuessed below. --larsinio (poke)(prod) 03:30, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not about lack of edits, many popular guides (such as b:Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas) still get some edits every week, and yet they have to go too. This is a universal decision, not one of culling obscure works. And as I've already said StrategyWiki's copy will be avaialable once Wikibooks' is removed, you can place the extra info there. GarrettTalk 20:57, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: This is only a recent policy change

message: Just thought I'd give you WoW folks a heads up  - World of Warcraft terminology is up for AFD - noticed it because I work on the MMORPG terms and acronyms pages. --Naha|(talk) 06:07, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  AFD 

message: I've created a new subpage at Wikipedia:WikiProject Computer and video games/Version 1.0 articles for listing featured, good, and A- and B-Class articles.  (page taken from WP Cricket - they seem to do everything on Wikipedia).  We should list any good (as in A/B Class) articles here, regardless of their essentialness.  I haven't added any non-featured articles yet though - add in any articles you think are A-Class or B-Class (see Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment). -- gakon5 01:51, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We already have something like this with the Wikipedia:WikiProject Computer and video games/Featured articles page. I'm not sure we want to maintain two separate pages. jaco♫plane 14:04, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Version 1.0 articles list 

message: Do we list the Wii as Nintendo Wii or Wii? I think that Wii will be fine, especially for categories. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 22:05, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It should just be Wii, Nintendo reps themselves have stated that its just Wii and not Nintendo Wii. Jedi6-(need help?) 22:10, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

text: I think just "Wii" is good. Thunderbrand 22:11, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wii or Nintendo Wii? 

message: Hi this is Caleb09 how do I join a wikiproject specifically this one?  Caleb09
:There really isn't any criteria to join, and we don't really keep strict track of our membership. If you'd like, though, you can take the userbox from the main project page and put it on your userpage in order to indicate that you're a member. --InShaneee 18:46, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: How to join?

message: Hello, I've noticed a lot of different representations of hardware specifications. I think perhaps some sort of template should be used rather than various differing forms of presenting it. xAXISx 18:27, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Hardware standardization

message: I've just spotted this article from a Whatlinkshere to Sin Episodes.  I literally have no idea what it's about.  It seems to be a merging of episodic delivery with Majestic style "beyond gaming" principles.  The phrase "episodic metagames" hardly gives any Google hits.  I think it looks like a neologism by the people behind Imperial Wars.  Could someone look this think over? - Hahnchen 00:44, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've nominated it for deletion. jaco♫plane 02:18, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Should Wikipedia delete episodic games also? I have copied both episodic games and Episodic Metagames to Wikinfo:Episodic Metagames and Wikinfo:Episodic games, so I can format them and later read them. --Kernigh 02:31, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Although the episodic gaming article is pretty bad in its current state, I think that it deserves to be kept, since it is a concept that is being used throughout the gaming industry and media. jaco♫plane 02:39, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Don't nominate Episodic games, even if it doesn't take off, it at least warrants an article or a mention in the serial article.  The article could relate to older themes such as shareware and expansion packs.  It does however, need some cleanup and reformatting. - Hahnchen 02:41, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  What the fuck is a [[Episodic Metagame]]? 

message: I have created a new barnstar for those of us who tirelessly contribute to the whole wealth of Konami articles, from Gradius to Castlevania, to Parodius, to Contra, to Gunbare Goemon and even for you DDR folks. --larsinio (poke)(prod) 16:27, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: New barnstar

message: We just noticed that the Structures of the GLA page is up for deletion. We do not know if anyone here cares, but we would like for the page to stay. Is there anything we can do to save it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.65.246.117 (talk • contribs) 07:50, 9 May 2006.
:This article looks like a prime candidate to be transwikied to one of the gaming wikis, as noted in the project guidelines. --Muchness 18:59, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Concern

message: Up for deletion. Concenus provided is "its a game guide". -ZeroTalk 19:03, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Transwikied it. Also made some improvements to my "Old Man"'s article. -ZeroTalk 00:06, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[List of Mega Man skills and attacks]] 

message: Since E3 is starting to kick off, there is likely to be a ton of new information coming out in the next few days. It would be nice if people could help out by updating the current events page. jaco♫plane 21:58, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Use the  template for those pages, I modeled it after the current event tag. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 01:02, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  E3 & [[Current computer and video games events]] 

message: Ok, E³ is here! Tag all articles that will probably be updated with . Normally such articles could just be tagged with . Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 10:30, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, I forgot to mention: I recommend leaving the  tag on the article until around next monday, hopefully that will be enough time to let the dust settle. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 10:41, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The Halo 3 article needs to be updated. I don't really know much about this game, so if anyone does, please do ;) jaco♫plane 20:20, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Super Mario Galaxy needs to be updated as well. ~ Hibana 22:48, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  E³! 

message: Currently there is an argument over whether we should split the Worms series article into individual articles, or keep them as one main article . I've mentioned this here to see if we can get some more community consensus over what to do.--☆TBC☆ 15:41, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Worms (computer game)]]

message: What was once http://www.the-underdogs.org is now defunt and points to generic advertizing rubbish, while the original site now resides at http://www.the-underdogs.info (thanks to jaco for bringing the new address to my attention). Now some computer game pages such as Robot Odyssey have a link to what was once the game's entry in the old URL - is there a way to change all of them in one stroke? Eldar 22:22, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The-underdogs links 

message: Alright, I definitely think you should claim/mark the Gran Turismo (video game) article for this project.  In my opinion, however, you should forget about and remove from your project the version-specific entries (Gran Turismo (video game) tries to at least overview them all).  The version-specific entries tend, even more than most articles, to be besotted with foolish prattle, and the mere number of the articles makes it difficult to decide how they should be tidied, let alone tidy them all up.--SportWagon 22:47, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gran Turismo (video game); ignore version-specific articles 

message: ====Larsinio====
is already quite clear on the matter. ed g2s • talk 16:26, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Because we shouldn't be justifying our copyright violations by finding loopholes, but instead trying to provide free content where available, and resorting to copyright material as a last resort. As it stands, there is no justification for these galleries. ed g2s • talk 16:31, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Were not finding loopholes. the CVG space depends oupon fair use, there is no free content when itcopmes to screenshots. And its an open issue, which is not settled. can you just temporarily hault all until there is a community consensus? --larsinio (poke)(prod) 16:38, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Please STOP reverting galleries until this issue is discussed and resolved. And how about you help write the fair use rationale for these images? --larsinio (poke)(prod) 16:22, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Why dont you add comentary or give peopel a chance to add it, before removing it? You just trying to get me to violate 3RR--larsinio (poke)(prod) 16:29, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Were not finding loopholes, were trying to adequately explain a topic. the CVG space depends oupon fair use, there is no free content when itcopmes to screenshots. And its an open issue, which is not settled. can you just temporarily hault all until there is a community consensus? --larsinio (poke)(prod) 16:32, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Furthermore it is your opinion that the jsutification given is just a way to "cheat" the system. I personalyl do not think you have enough information about the CVG aspect to this to justify what is and what is not fair use. "Fair use, ill know it when i see it" right, something like that? --larsinio (poke)(prod) 16:36, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Additional dialogue from talk pages

message: is already quite clear on the matter. ed g2s • talk 16:26, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Because we shouldn't be justifying our copyright violations by finding loopholes, but instead trying to provide free content where available, and resorting to copyright material as a last resort. As it stands, there is no justification for these galleries. ed g2s • talk 16:31, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Were not finding loopholes. the CVG space depends oupon fair use, there is no free content when itcopmes to screenshots. And its an open issue, which is not settled. can you just temporarily hault all until there is a community consensus? --larsinio (poke)(prod) 16:38, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Larsinio

message: Please give your comments on Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Computer_and_video_games the topic of screenshot galleries on video game consoles. Thunderbrand has indicated that you have been removing them from articles. Please state your reasoning. --larsinio (poke)(prod)
:Please STOP reverting galleries until this issue is discussed and resolved. And how about you help write the fair use rationale for these images? --larsinio (poke)(prod) 16:22, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Why dont you add comentary or give peopel a chance to add it, before removing it? You just trying to get me to violate 3RR--larsinio (poke)(prod) 16:29, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Were not finding loopholes, were trying to adequately explain a topic. the CVG space depends oupon fair use, there is no free content when itcopmes to screenshots. And its an open issue, which is not settled. can you just temporarily hault all until there is a community consensus? --larsinio (poke)(prod) 16:32, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Furthermore it is your opinion that the jsutification given is just a way to "cheat" the system. I personalyl do not think you have enough information about the CVG aspect to this to justify what is and what is not fair use. "Fair use, ill know it when i see it" right, something like that? --larsinio (poke)(prod) 16:36, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ed2gs

message: I am really geeked about this because it gives great exposure to video game articles in general, and to our project.  Kudos to everyone who worked to make this a great article. Aguerriero (ţ) (ć) (ë) 12:57, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Perfect Dark]] featured on main page! 

message: From the discussion occuring on Talk:Assault Plus....
:"This game is for use exclusively in Japan. The sale, export, use or operation of this game outside of Japan may be a violation of international copyright, trademark and/or other related laws subjecting the violator to legal penalties."
There appears to be some disagreement over including export information with this game. I'm strongly in favor it it being there - if at least because more information generally makes an article stronger.  It's also very notable in that it explains the rarity of the game outside of Japan.
Now, if you disagree, let's talk with some reasoned arguments rather than go revert happy.
-Mr.Logic 16:11, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That is a weak argument. Every arcade game manufactured for Japan, or for any other region at that, has this message. It is a common copyright message. Even if the game is later manufactured for release in teh united states, the japanese version of the ROM files will still say that. ITs a standard copyright message and not indicative of being a japanese exclusive game. Why dont I just add it to every single computer and video game article ever made? Every game has copyright messages like this. How about books and movies too?
THe user who added it, Gingerfield Rocks has had a long history of making immaterial, edits that wind up being reverted, which he applies to 30 articles simultaneously.  I will await your response before I revert it. If needed I will get more people involved on this discussion--larsinio (poke)(prod) 16:30, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

text: It certainly seems odd, at best, to mention – let alone to quote – a standard copyright message.  I'd have said that it should be removed from this (and any other) article. --Mel Etitis  (Μελ Ετητης) 20:38, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Legal notices are relevant to the Namco articles. The articles are not just about the game's context, they're about the games and all their contexts. Please don't remove legal notices. And when you're going to make a change like this to a bunch of articles, please try to make a note before you go and do it. Gingerfield rocks 08:19, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

text: He has since been reverting back to include this text, and I dont want to tread near 3rr without CVG project consensus. --larsinio (poke)(prod) 13:34, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Absolutely revert all insertions of generic copyright notices.  They're absolutely pointless unencyclopedic waste of disk space.  Every arcade game that I can think of, Namco or not has this restriction.  If you want to put something about copyright law and the sale and distribution of arcade games and machines, then put it in the arcade gaming article, if you must.  I've just looked at this user's contribution history, if he continues, you might need some stronger backing than just the guys at CVG. - Hahnchen 13:58, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Copyright export info in Namco arcade game articles

message: He posted this in my talk page:
::Legal notices are relevant to the Namco articles. The articles are not just about the game's context, they're about the games and all their contexts. Please don't remove legal notices. And when you're going to make a change like this to a bunch of articles, please try to make a note before you go and do it. Gingerfield rocks 08:19, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: He has since been reverting back to include this text, and I dont want to tread near 3rr without CVG project consensus. --larsinio (poke)(prod) 13:34, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Absolutely revert all insertions of generic copyright notices.  They're absolutely pointless unencyclopedic waste of disk space.  Every arcade game that I can think of, Namco or not has this restriction.  If you want to put something about copyright law and the sale and distribution of arcade games and machines, then put it in the arcade gaming article, if you must.  I've just looked at this user's contribution history, if he continues, you might need some stronger backing than just the guys at CVG. - Hahnchen 13:58, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Gingerfield's response

message: What is the preferred pic for the image in the infoboxes?  It says on the guideline in the wikiproject for the cover.  I've seen many articles that previous had covers now have been replaced with screenshots instead.
Here are some of them:
*Virtua Fighter 4
*Street Fighter Alpha
*Marvel Super Heroes vs. Street Fighter
*X-Men vs. Street Fighter
--Dangerous-Boy 07:35, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This has been discussed previously and there was overwhelming consensus to use coverart ... jaco♫plane 07:45, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps I'm being picky but I have to object the use of cover art for ports of arcade-based games as they in many cases represent an altered product. Most 80's games for instance are often not visually comparable with their arcade counterparts. ~ Vic Vipr 12:36, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I really dont like coverart being used for the infobox, because it really has no relation ot hte game itself. Title screens are at least rendered by the game, and in the case of arcade games, are the prominent "packaging" that people would see. And as vic Viper points out, what about games that were originalyl arcade but then became console ports? Like in Virtua Fighter 4, shoudl we use a port coverart? That doesnt make much sense to me. --larsinio (poke)(prod) 14:33, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Arcade games (that includes those that have been ported) should be represented by their title screens. They can very often be supplied in excellent quality (png format, through mame), too - a step towards getting rid of ugly jpeg-cover art. --elias.hc 14:43, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  coverart or screenshot for infoboxes? 

message: This has been bugging me for a while: could someone who has the Wind Waker take a better screenshot of Hyrule Castle? jaco♫plane 08:18, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hyrule castle 

message: On new pages patrol, I noticed that User:Cs california has created a large number of Red Alert 2 related articles, such as Red Alert 2 Soviet Vehicles. I do not know the CVG notability criteria, but I presume most of these should be merged or deleted. Oldelpaso 08:29, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Red Alert 2]] related articles

message: Everyone please start removing the  tags from articles as E3 is offically over. --SeizureDog 15:09, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: CyberSkull commented above about leaving the  tag on articles "until around next monday, hopefully that will be enough time to let the dust settle." Are we doing that or are we removing them now? I'm confused. Optichan 16:05, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, the if tag is off the Wii, then it should be off of everything. That's my opinion. --SeizureDog 19:22, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

text: All games that have the tag are in :Category:Current computer and video game events. jaco♫plane 19:03, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I made that comment because the gaming media will still be writing up E³ articles until monday, so there would likely still be a trickle of info over the weekend. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 21:37, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Need removal of all E3 tags

message: Thunderbrand 21:22, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Computer and video game clichés]] on AfD