Talk:Bengali Brahmin

message: *A little tidying up is required. --Bhadani 08:35, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

message: How  culture and Happlotype became related? Wow wow wow wow wow 3rd world!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.194.197.10 (talk) 03:27, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: '''Stupid''' and '''non-sense''' interpretation

message: due to lack of citations and other appropriate tags are placed , kindly try to improve the article by placing necessary citations and/or rewrite it according to wiki . regards : --@ the $un$hine . (talk) 19:28, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: placed appropriate tags

message: Hi,
    Can anyone provide more details about Bengali Baidyas and how they are a part of Brahmin community? I want to know more.
this article says that kayasth clan was formed by the servants of Brahmins. Historically, this is wrong. The history of Kayastha community can be veiwed in its wikipedia entry.
Hi some user named Sourav421 is trying desperately to add Amartya Sen as brahmin who belongs from Baidya caste. Kindly protect the page from Vandalism.
https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/economic-sciences/1998/sen/facts/
The official Nobel prize website clearly saying amartya sen is a brahmin.he is also a bengali so thats why I added him.the fact is Baidyas are also brahmins.traditionally baidyas are Ayurvedic Doctors.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sourav431 (talk • contribs) 14:05, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Baidya 

message: Vaidyas are vaishya sudras I think but after the British Govt. advrtsed for caste mobilisation , they applied for higher status like Ayurvedic Brahmins.117.194.199.64 (talk) 13:58, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Vaishya Sudras

message: The article Bengali Brahmins was in a bad shape. I added a lot of well referenced material, although I was not able to get as many sources as I would have liked, because most of modern scholars are not interested in such topics. I think present tags are too strict to implement, and may induce some less informed editor to destroy this article partially or wholly. Instead of placing tags, one should ask editors to improve this article. I fear one will not get editors to one's liking, because relevant academic sources are hard to find, as far as this article is concerned. If one pushes the matter, he/she will attract only chauvinists who will destroy this article. -VJha (talk) 10:40, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tags 

message: Mr. Fylind Brahmin and Bengali Brahmin are not same.The zonal and local character is most important.Many mysterious things are there.117.194.202.227 (talk) 12:53, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The reference of Haplogroup percentages under Genetics section is absolutely as per wikipedia guidelines listed Wikipedia:PSTS.  
Policy on Primary Source-
Primary sources that have been reliably published may be used in Wikipedia, but only with care, because it is easy to misuse them. 
Took Sengupta et al as the primary source. I did not misuse the data provided by it. Check the references.
Policy on Primary Source-
A primary source can be used only to make descriptive statements that can be verified by any educated person without specialist knowledge.''
 
Policy on Secondary Source-
Articles may include analytic or evaluative claims only if these have been published by a reliable secondary source.
Any educated person may calculate the percentages as such. Besides it is a norm to present the data as percentages. Check any article on Haplogroup in wikipedia or outside sources. 
As far as the analytic and evaluative claims are concerned, I’ve taken the "….as a founder lineage for this caste group." line from Sharma et al which is a significant secondary source for the Sengupta study. Besides these Sengupta et al has been referenced in 19 articles listed here which according to WP guidelines provide plenty of secondary sources for the published Sengupta Data.
--Fylindfotberserk (talk) 19:50, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added 'Genetics' Heading 

message: Hindu Genealogy
The 49 established gotras are clans or families whose members trace their descent to a common ancestor, usually a sage of ancient times. The gotra proclaims a person's identity and a "gotraspeak" is required to be presented at Hindu ceremonies. People of the same gotra are not allowed to marry.
One company says it can use a 37-marker Y-DNA test to "verify genetic relatedness and historical gotra genealogies for Hindu and Buddhist engagements, marriages and business partnerships." This has not been supported by independent research. Any Y-DNA test can be used to compare results with another person whose gotra is known.
Doubts and drawbacks
Genealogical DNA tests have become popular due to the ease of testing at home and their supplementing genealogical research. Genealogical DNA tests allow for an individual to determine with high accuracy whether he or she is related to another person within a certain time frame, or with certainty that he or she is not related. DNA tests are perceived as more scientific, conclusive and expeditious than searching the civil records. But, they are limited by restrictions on lines which may be studied. The civil records are always only as accurate as the individuals who provided or wrote the information.
The aforementioned Y-DNA testing results are normally stated as probabilities: For example, a perfect 12/12 marker test match gives a 90% likelihood of the most recent common ancestor (MRCA) being within 23 generations, while a 67 of 67 marker match gives the same 90% likelihood of the MRCA being within 4 generations back.[5]
As presented above in mtDNA testing, if a perfect match is found, the mtDNA test results can be helpful. In some cases, research according to traditional genealogy methods encounters difficulties due to the lack of regularly recorded matrilineal surname information in many cultures.(see Matrilineal surname).[7]
[edit] Drawbacks
Common concerns about genealogical DNA test are cost and privacy issues (some testing companies retain samples and results for their own use without a privacy agreement with subjects). The most common complaint from DNA test customers is the failure of the company to make results understandable to them.
DNA tests can do some things well, but there are constraints. Testing of the Y-DNA lineage from father to son may reveal complications, due to unusual mutations, secret adoptions, and false paternity (i.e. the father in one generation is not the father in birth records.) According to some genomics experts, autosomal tests may have a margin of error up to 15% and blind spots.[citation needed]
Some users have recommended that there be government or other regulation of ancestry testing to ensure more standardization.[24]  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.194.207.244 (talk) 15:13, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Analysis of only 39 individuals cant say more than that r1a1 and r2 presence.It is also without chi-square test.And also that ISI Calcutta analysis changed the % from below 40 to more than 70.All data changed but mysteriously maintaining the Caste gradation.And that Bengali Brahmin have % equal to the Turkies but more than Pakistanis and Afgans.Very funny research scholars India. This is also not clear How Indo-European culture got related with this.Which stupid or idiotic theory does conform to such conclusion.Are you trying to build the basis of another Apartheid .117.194.202.227 (talk) 12:48, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

text: Brahmins and Slavs have high proportion of R1a1a. Genetics don't lie. These groups are closely related to each other. 77.9.5.240 (talk) 04:54, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Genetic Data Doubtful

message: In "Bengali Brahmins" article about "Kayastha Bengali Brahmins" are not mentioned. why?
According to the  "Kayastha" article in wikipedia Kayastas are Brahmins and holding dual cast status Brahmin and Kshatriya.
So kindly mention all "Bengali Kayastha Brahmins" peoples name and there titles in the "Bengali Brahmins" Article.
Thank you.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.227.130.233 (talk) 03:42, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  In "Bengali Brahmins" article about "Kayastha Bengali Brahmins" are not  mentioned. why? 

message: After the British India Govt. gave notice for application for Higher cast status then only different cast started demanding higher or in most cases having some proximity with the Brahmins.Even a section of one caste-group started wearing sacred  thread.This custom later spread to many communities in different states of India.
But neither ever The British Govt. changed any status nor ever the Brahmin acknowledged any community into their sect. In Bengal they were always very rigid to the status of Sudra status for all and the lowest part beyond consideration. Any one can find the documents of Mahafejkhana( Govt. Archive) .Any demand or forceful inclusion is vandalism .Everyone knows in Brahmasamaj also such demand was turned down and never ever acknowledged.We find some vandalism .117.194.201.134 (talk) 07:02, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Caste Mobilisation and Demand of Higher Status

message: Hi Everyone,
I have made edits/ modifications to the History section which I am listing below:
 --- Organized the section in a verifiable chronological sequence (earliest to latest)
 --- Added description of a copper plate of Dhanaidaha and provided reference
 --- Then talked about literary sources which may not always be chronologically verifiable (llike Mahabharata, Ramayana, etc)
 --- Updated the classification of Bengali brahmins to the scholarly format as described in various texts like "Hindu Catse and Sects", "Banger Jatiya Itihaash" etc
 --- Have cited multiple references wherever possible including specifying page numbers wherever possible.
The Traditional Accounts section needs to be organized properly and chronologically as the traditional history of each type of Brahmins are different:
 --- Sapta-shati's are pre Adisura and migrations of some are linked to Chandravarman (4th century C.E)
 --- Shakdvipi related to Shasanka (7th century CE)
 --- Radhi and Varendri - migration related to Adisura (possible Jayanta of 750 C.E) - ref to Kalhanas Rajatarngini esp the exploits of Jayapida (contemporary of Jayanta) grandson of Lalitaditya
 --- Paschatya Vaidik - migration during Muhammad Ghaznis invasion (1000 C.E)
 --- Dakshinatya Vaidiks during 1050 C.E during Chalukya king Vikramaditya VI reign
Subdivions like Pirali, Patati need to be treated under each section. We should finalize a basic template which we may discuss.
Subhodeep Mukhopadhyay (talk) 06:15, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Modifications and Reorganization 

message: The harappadna.org ,paper or gobbledegock , what it is , does not contain any specific information ,What is other Bengalis? There is no data of Bengali Kayasthas or Vaidyas .This private financed research had no credibility.The research of Cohanim ancestry had revealed the fact. I think the crude data and the detailed analysis has to be given. 30 - 40 rich people managed a sample analysis that gives no reliability. It is extremely insulting and demeaning to use terms like other Bengalis. A Govt survey of at least 50% of a community population can give such credibility.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.194.205.219 (talk) 02:21, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Biased and Full of Discriminatory Attitude and Interpretation : Worst Article

message: Sources need to be cited for "Panchavedic Brahmins". Original research is not as per wikipedia policy - plus the neutrality of the section was questionable as user Anionmission used terms like "greatest" / "highest" which is not as per Wikipedia usage policies.
He/ she needs to:
a. Remove capitalization and use proper cases
b. Cite verifiable sources / articles/ scholarly articles/ peer reviewed research
c. Desist from original research
d. Use proper formatting  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Subhodeep Mukhopadhyay (talk • contribs) 13:48, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  About Panchavedic Brahmins 

message: R1a has been variously associated with:
* the re-colonization of Eurasia during the Late Glacial Maximum.
* the expansion of the Kurgan people from the Pontic-Caspian steppe, which is associated with the spread of the Indo-European languages.
The Modern studies for R1a1 (M17) suggest that it have originated in South Asiahttp://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v18/n4/full/ejhg2009194a.html and have found its way initially from Western India (Gujarat) through Pakistan and Kashmir, then via Central Asia and Russia, before finally coming to Europe"..."as part of an archaeologically dated Paleolithic movement from east to west 30,000 years ago.
so its clear that R1a has clinical connections to the PIE people.
Nirjhara (talk) 14:50, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: What is your source for the words "found its way initially from Western India (Gujarat) through Pakistan and Kashmir, then via Central Asia and Russia, before finally coming to Europe"? This very specific itinerary does not appear in the Underhill et al article you cite.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 11:19, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: The R1a and Proto-Indo-European connection

message: I check pages listed in :Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of :Bengali Brahmins's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "Semino2000":
From Brahmin: 
From Haplogroup R1a (Y-DNA): 
From Haplogroup H (Y-DNA): 
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 22:52, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The Brahmin and R1a references you cite are using a "harvard citation" template which takes you down to another part of the article, where you can see the details and check properly...
*R1a has Semino, O.; Passarino, G; Oefner, PJ; Lin, AA; Arbuzova, S; Beckman, LE; De Benedictis, G; Francalacci, P et al. (2000), "The Genetic Legacy of Paleolithic Homo sapiens sapiens in Extant Europeans: A Y Chromosome Perspective", Science 290 (5494): 1155–59, Bibcode 2000Sci...290.1155S, doi:10.1126/science.290.5494.1155, . Copy can be found at http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/ConciseMacedonia/Y_Hromosomes.pdf.
*Brahmin seems to show signs that the "harvard" reference was copied from another article, incompletely. In order for these references to work properly you need to have a references section below, using a citation template. See R1a for examples.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 11:24, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  References in [[:Bengali Brahmins]] 

message: Bengalibrahmin22 (talk) 05:34, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. --Mdann52talk to me! 14:32, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 26 March 2014 

message: This article does not have much on the history of the community through the Islamic and British eras.The community was probably the first one in india to take up western education, and played a prominent part in struggle for social reforms and independence struggle. Adding this information to article will greatly enhance the quality of the page.Thanks.Jonathansammy (talk) 15:02, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  History 

message: The page was semi protected by some admin while I was trying to add Raja Krishnachandra of Nadia Raj family as a notable people.
The Nadia Raj family is a descendant of Bhatta Narayan like the Thakur or Tagore family.
Original surname of Krishnachandra Ray was Bandyopadhyay as mentioned. He belonged from a Shakta Bengali family. He is revered as he started Jagadhatri Puja in Bengal. He was a patron Sanskrit learning. Kindly add him. If needed find more relevant sources.
http://www.mainstreamweekly.net/article5882.html
Dasgupta R. Maharaja Krishnachandra: Religion, Caste and Polity in Eighteenth Century Bengal. Indian Historical Review. 2011;38(2):225-242.
http://nadia.gov.in/district%20gazetteer/Ch15%20-%20THE%20NADIA%20RAJ.PDF
https://www.getbengal.com/details/did-you-know-nadia-s-original-capital-was-matiyari
:Your edits were problematic, especially since you tried to include Shaktism as a Category. It may be mentioned as a Category under Hinduism, but why did you add it here? Are all followers of Shaktism considered as Bengali Brahmins? No, right! Now, coming to Krishnachandra, he was an elite and a notable in his own right. We are not sure whether we can mention him here as a Bengali Brahmin merely because of their original surname. Please provide a WP:RS where it is clearly mentioned something like 'he was a Brahmin' or 'was born in a Brahmin famiily', or some equivalent statement, and mention the same here, so that we can include his name. Do mention the page number, etc. so that it can be verified as per WP:V. Most of the sources are simply saying they were followers of Shaktism; therefore you need to come up with reliable & verifiable sources supporting that he was indeed considered as a Brahmin. Thanks. Ekdalian (talk) 16:24, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Why are you citing the same article again & again; can't you find a proper text by a reliable author. Anyway, I have found one, check this. I am adding his name based on this. Don't engage in unconstructive edits like inclusion of a Category, which is not supposed to be here. Ekdalian (talk) 20:23, 15 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Raja Krishnachandra 

message: Why are traditional accounts regarding Rarhi, Varendra, Paschatya Vaidika, Dakshinatya Vaidika removed from this page?Mikemarssss (talk) 18:37, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Please See WP:HISTRS . Best Regards. Jiggyziz 🇮🇳Any Help🇮🇳? Contact Me. 09:34, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Traditional accounts 

message: The Senas and their descendants probably merged into the Kayastha or Baidya caste groups as Bengal adopted Maithili caste system. So please remove it.Mikemarssss (talk) 04:53, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brahmakshatriya  

message: Hellow viewers the speciality of the author, who proposed this theory is in the field of Political Science. see here. The theory should be given by Historians or Anthropologist see WP:HISTRS.Thanks; Satnam2408 (talk) 10:46, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Prof. ‪Razia Akter Banu is a political historian in her own right, author of several books, and a scholar at the University of Dhaka. Being a Professor in the Department of Political Science, University of Dhaka, doesn't mean they do not qualify as a historian. Thanks. Ekdalian (talk) 12:56, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

text: Quoting from WP:HISTRS "Historians carry out original research, often using primary sources. Historians often have a PhD or advanced academic training in historiography, but may have an advanced degree in a related social science field or a domain specific field". Ekdalian (talk) 13:01, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regarding deletion of Alpine Aryans theory 

message: The whole migration part is a myth where brahmin kulajis mention king Adisura as a vaidya supported by Baidya kulajis but opposed by Kayastha kulaji(which hardly make any sense over historians). The cited source, Inden, and the other two sources which Satnam provided mention Adisura as a vaidya. please give your opinion on why Adusura as a vaidya king should not be added. Nobita456 (talk) 04:40, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: What is the necessity of same discussion again ? TrangaBellam explained to you on Kulin Brahmin talk.Chanchaldm (talk) 08:03, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  TB raised question regarding that source which was an oral history. but this source which is present in this article also mentioned the same. Thats why I raised another quary. we have four sources that mention Adisura as a Vaidya but we have nothing against it except that Kayastha kulaji claim(undue). Nobita456 (talk) 08:11, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: The whole thing is a fabricated story, better to put under a new section - "Origin myth". If you put Baidya claims , Kayastha claims also need to be mentioned. But is that necessary?Chanchaldm (talk) 10:09, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  The kayastha claims are definitely not supported by historians so that makes it WP:UNDUE. But many historians branded Adisura as a Vaidya. this is undoubtedly a myth but we should provide the detailed myth to the readers. Nobita456 (talk) 10:16, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Since there was a long discussion about this on Kulin brahmin talk page, you better put your counter argument there if you have something new to say, and get consensus.Chanchaldm (talk) 10:26, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  Adisura is also present here. Your suggestion was also good. But please give your views here.  Nobita456 (talk) 10:35, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adisura 

message: Can we have section on food practices…namely a comment on why Bengali Brahmins eat fish counter to some other Brahmins in India ? 192.184.133.221 (talk) 16:28, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Food issue 

message: Ekdalian, CharlesWain we should also do the same in English article. What do you guys think? কবির চৌধুরী ১১ (talk) 08:08, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: What is this all about?Chanchaldm (talk) 16:11, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Islamic aggression in lead 

message: Also add Assamese brahmins in the section. Mikemarssss (talk) 16:05, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Related Ethnic Groups 

message: In the article’s infobox, can West bengal (uncapitalised b) be changed to West Bengal? I’m unable to edit it myself due to the ongoing block.
Kind regards AllfadrOdinn (talk) 14:47, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Done ✅. Chanchaldm (talk) 04:00, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you add Assamese brahmins in related ethnic groups please? 2405:201:8016:DA22:FDE7:2638:CF3D:2061 (talk) 14:47, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit Request 

message: I propose merging Kulin Brahmin into Bengali Brahmin. These two articles are so identical. I think we can just add a seperate section in Brahmin Brahmin article to describe the Kulin Brahmins who are just a sub-caste of Bengali Brahmins.JudeB5 (talk) 19:24, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge proposal 

message: The fifth surname for Rarhi Kulins is Ghoshal, not Bhattacharya.
Bhattacharya is a title given to a senior teacher and can be any one of the Bandyopadhyay, Chattopadhyay, Gangopadhyay, Mukhopadhyay or Ghoshal; even Shrotriya Brahmins can have Bhattacharya a title. 111.93.130.157 (talk) 08:32, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Bhattacharya is mentioned as per reliable source! Please provide a reliable source (modern scholarly work by reliable author) supporting your claim! Thanks. Ekdalian (talk) 08:54, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong info: Bhattacharya is a title, not a surname, unrelated to gotra 

message: The five Brahmin clans, which later became known as Mukherjees, Chatterjees, Banerjees, Gangulys and Ghosal/Ghoshal, were each designated as Kulina ("superior") in order to differentiate them from the more established local Brahmins. Sovanwd (talk) 07:09, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Please provide reliable and verifiable source (modern scholarly work by reliable author) supporting your claim! Thanks. Ekdalian (talk) 07:48, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 March 2024 

message: The five Brahmin , which later became known as Mukherjees, Chatterjees, Banerjees, Gangulys and Ghosal/Ghoshal, were each designated as Kulina ("superior") in order to differentiate them from the more established local Brahmins. Sovanwd (talk) 07:10, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kulin Brahmin