Talk:Robert Plot

message: I have tagged the claim that Dr. Plot mentioned a long-forgotten network of underground tunnels in this section:
and also reported the existence of a long-forgotten network of underground tunnels. According to the book, the entrance to these long-forgotten caves was discovered by a farm workman who, while digging a trench, discovered a large iron plate beneath the earth. The hatch was large and oval, with an iron ring mounted on it . Whether or not the tunnels exist, the story has become part of a worldwide urban legend of interconnected subterranean cities.
The article history shows that section was removed with the comment:
* Erased section relating to some underground tunnels, for it is actually a hoax and is not really within any of Plot's books. Verify things next time, people!
The removal was then reverted with the comment:
* rv unsourced deletion
At first glance the answerbag.com source looks unreliable, but I looked further.
* The answerbag.com reply was posted 2005-12-14 and refers to http://www.livinginthelightms.com/in_search_of_shambhala2.html which is a web site of Mary Sutherland for her book "In Search of Shambhala". The web excerpt listed many stories of tunnels in the world, but gave no sources and no cites and mentioned no ISBN number. I could not find the book using amazon.com.
** The in_search_of_shambhala2.html page has "Dr. Plot, who wrote the book in the late 1700s", which does not bode well for reliability (Oxford University Museum has Plot dying in 1696)
** archive.org found the earliest occurrence of that website on 2003-05-03
* http://www.ufos-aliens.co.uk/cosmicunder.html, from at least as far back as 2000-12-02, has the same story with the same 1700s error. See this archived copy
** the aliens site cites book "Entrances to Subterranean Tunnels "Underground Alien Bases" (UAB) ISBN: 0-938294-92-X (UAB)". Google Books finds Underground Alien Bases By Commander X, Published 1990, 
* Google Scholar Search of "History of Staffordshire plot subterranean" returns references to theories on the subterranean origin of springs (Erasmus Darwin cited Plot in one), passages were postulated for water movement but no tunnels reported.
** Someone in this forum hand types a passage from the book giving the source of the quote as "X, Commander (1990). Underground Alien Bases (pp. 28-29). Abelard Productions, Inc. ". Notwithstanding the quote has several typos, here are excerpts that should alert the reader to an unreliable source:
*** "Dr. Plot, who wrote the book in the late 1770's'", possibly typo for 1700s
*** "woods somewhere in Staffordshire"
*** "The sun had gone down" followed by "The planet Venus had risen by this time" (check your astronomy, Venus as evening star would already be risen, and as morning star would not rise until before dawn, not just after sunset)
*** "The planet Venus had risen by this time and was shining directly down the shaft,"
*** It goes on about a blue glow, a sound like a rumble, a hooded figure pointing to a tube-like object, etc etc
Should we accept such a source for this article?
-84user (talk) 16:17, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  tunnels - reliable source needed 

message: As Google now makes Plot's posthumous 1705 Natural History of Oxford-shire available online, we can now use it for citations. Here is one:
* Page 144: 
(I replaced all the old forms of s ("f") with "s", and ignored the italics).
I have also removed all the uncited stuff about tunnels. If anyone can find teh page in Plot's book where it is mentioned, feel free to insert it.-84user (talk) 02:49, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sourcing Plot himself