Talk:Sterling silver

message: The first line of the article states:
Sterling silver is an alloy of silver containing 92.5 by weight of silver and 7.5 by weight of other metals, usually copper. The sterling silver standard has a minimum millesimal fineness of 925.
92.5 what by weight of silver?  I'm assuming that it's 92.5% ?
Seattle Rex (talk) 03:28, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Units Missing

message: Very very common for of Sterling. Needs some discussion.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.11.27.48 (talk) 02:32, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Weighted sterling is currently a dead-end/orphan/stub and would probably be best as part of Sterling's article, since it's in a way a "form" or alloy or silver. I don't see weighted sterling as much of a topic in and of itself. Other option could be to merge weighted sterling into an article about metal plating and/or false precious metals. Lexprod (talk) 15:04, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The parent article, Plated ware, is also an orphan and it might be useful to merge those two. There is also Sheffield plate, the patterns of which were made to mimic sterling ware, but that article is better developed than the other two. --Old Moonraker (talk) 16:59, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Plating also has its own article, but seems strictly to cover modern chemical and electrical plating techniques. I'm going to have to admit ignorance about methods used before electroplating, which I assume was how weighted sterling was made, but it seems that those methods are in need of some larger article (metal leaf could even be bundled in as well, another orphan.) I'm going to paste this discussion on plated ware's discussion page as it seems more relevant there than here now. Lexprod (talk) 00:00, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Weighted Sterling

message: I removed this sentence:  "Unfortunately the plate made from this grade of silver was too soft to use for the then current style in plate, so a simpler plate styling had to be developed."  which is completely incorrect - this period saw the arrival of elaborate Huguenot silversmithing styles, and in 1719 silversmiths petitioned parliament for BS to be retained as it was  "better adapted for curious work". The reintro of sterling was due to a perception that BS was less durable. Probably better for this explanation to be on the Britannia silver page rather than under Sterling silver. --mervyn 07:44, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Britannia silver 

message: 11/28/05 - Wrote a section about the sterling silver craze in dining accoutrements, which went from approximately 1840 to 1940. It was during this period that sterling silver items flourished. --Mrs. Rockefeller
where did you put the Hallmarks after you fixed the page?  You did not correct the Hallmark spot.  Now we can not fine the Hallmarks.  I am sure this is in error but please fined them and correct tnanks, Dummy  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.242.171.120 (talk) 03:16, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Sterling Silver

message: The section in this article on removing tarnish is a how-to guide, which Wikipedia is not. Wikibooks however has a How-tos bookshelf. I suggest that the main points of the how-to are summarised into an encyclopaedic section and the rest transwikied to Wikibooks. There are prominent tags that can be used to link to the content on Wikibooks (see WP:SISTER). Thryduulf 00:57, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. 63.194.246.108 10:42, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Transwiki the removing tarnish section?

message: The statement from the article, 
Fine silver (99.9% pure) is generally too soft for producing large functional objects, and in Sterling the silver is usually alloyed with copper to give strength (...)
is in flat contradiction to the statement from the German wikipedia article,
 (...) läßt sich gegenüber reinem Silber leichter bearbeiten oder prägen, weil der Kupferanteil in der Legierung das Metall weicher macht. (which translates to  is easier machined and embossed because the copper content of the alloy makes the material softer.)
I've posted this some weeks ago on the German article but apparently nobody felt able to resolve the issue yet.
So which is it? Harder or softer than pure silver?
--RGrimmig 13:24, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: All sources I know are in agreement that copper makes the silver harder and more durable, (just like when copper is alloyed with gold). Must be a prob with the German article. --mervyn 12:50, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

text: This is an old thread, but just wanted to reiterate: copper is added to silver specifically to increase its durability/ hardness.  Pure silver, though harder than pure gold, is much too easily deformed (the tines of a pure silver fork wouldn't stay straight through your first meal with it).  The only other reason that I know of for combining silver with copper is to produce a larger total volume of product.  Otherwise, the alloying process only tends to compromise the otherwise attractive qualities of silver (i.e., the alloy tarnishes much more easily, has a lower reflectivity index, is less electrically and thermally conductive, etc.). KDS4444Talk 13:01, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Harder or softer? 

message: The History of Sterling: A Century of Dining Regalia was added virtually complete in its current form in one edit from an IP which has some history of copyviolation and the Hallmarks was added by same ip here, although it has been edited a wee tad more. I have not been able to identify the source. KillerChihuahua?!? 02:44, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Possible copyvio

message: I added the aforementioned sections. They are virtually complete because I wrote them in Microsoft Word BEFORE adding them to the page. I did this so that they would not have to be tweaked a "wee tad". Since when is being organized a sign of copyright violation? That is a patently ridiculous statement.
I haven't been active because I have been sick with cancer, NOT because I am hiding.
I can assure you that I opened a blank page in Microsoft Word, and began writing. The pictures were also added by me, taken with my own camera.
I do not have a "history" of copyright violations. I added a comment to a genealogy page for my sister's married name. I had been reading a fiction story, in German, a language in which I am fluent, and saw a German verb that was quite similar. I recall adding a statement that the family surname may have been a modification of that particular verb. Why this comment would have been labeled a "copyright violation", I have no idea. My statement or statement(s) are no longer available, apparently removed, along with any statement explaining the reason for this action.
According to information for my IP address, the accusation of "copyright violation" was made concerning this one comment, and by one individual, who states on his page: "I would like to be writing great articles, but actually I'm an inveterate "fixer" of anything that I see that looks wrong - mainly links and copyedits." He defines himself as a "Perl hacker".
Wikipedia has allowed this person to remove information about the origin of a name in MY FAMILY, labeling it, for some unknown reason, as "copyright violation". Meanwhile, a page next to it has only a list of rock musicians, and no useful genealogical information.
Wikipedia apparently has very low standards in whom it allows to "police" its website. But it's a public domain, so those of us who actually DO spend time adding valuable information will just have to live with it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrsrockefeller (talk • contribs) 
:Hi. I'm sorry if it seemed accusatory. We did leave the text in while trying to determine its provenance, so no harm done. The other seeming copyright violation was at Boger. The article there did have the look of a direct copy from a dictionary; apologies if someone got that wrong too. —Bunchofgrapes  (talk) 18:04, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Silver Information NOT Copyright Violation

message: Is it Sterling Silver, Sterling silver or sterling silver? Clarityfiend 09:42, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Inconsistent capitalization

message: Hi, the Sterling silver#"Easterling" theory section currently seems to be treating theory as fact. I think it needs to be edited for clarity, while being careful to avoid weasel words. --Kjoonlee 03:38, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Easterling theory 

message: The ultimate in sumptuous dining was to include a fork for eating endangered turtle species!It seems to me that such comments are not needed in an encyclopedia.... Josh Thompson 08:39, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have removed the notes in that sentence. Next time, why not be bold and remove them yourself? KillerChihuahua?!? 09:16, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. I was on my way to bed.... I've done slightly more cleanup now. Josh Thompson 19:04, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Silly notes 

message: I have some very old silver given to me that have markings.
I am trying to figure out how old, where it orignaited and what the symbols mean.
The markings I was able to make out 'on the back' were as follows:
Starting near middle back of spoon handle working towards tip of handle the markings are as follows:
(small) s / (small) r in circle / (what looks like) and anchor in circle / (Capital) JG in circle / (Capital) M in circle.........then at top of these markings (capital) E.P. in circle
On the front of the spoon the is a bird of sorts.
Almost looks like a stork. 
Looks as if it is landing or taking off as legs are visable.
It also has etched in the sliver what looks like it could be a bit of land.
Almost like a line.
This Silver belonged to a Captian Michaelson of the Royal Navy.
I can only assume he was from Europe as this was given to us by inlaws and they are both from England.
The silver was brought over in a truck on his ship.
This is about all the information I have.
If anyone has anything information that may be able to help me find out more about the above, it would be appreciated.
I have never had to look for anything like this before and really do not know where to start.
Thanks so much
Lynne Parker
lynne.parker@shaw.ca
:I don't think a talk page on Wikipedia is your best bet. Might I suggest contacting a curator for a museum housing similar sorts of items? Best I can think of. Antique appraisers are also usually a source of bountiful knowledge about such objects, and typically do not charge for identification services. Hope that helps! --63.166.226.83 (talk) 22:41, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, dear, I second that opinion. I would love to help you, but then we would have a million people wanting the free service. My suggestion is simply to use Google to search for websites that help in the identification of silver hallmarks and/or makers' marks, both American and foreign. Mrs rockefeller (talk) 21:09, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trying to identify silver given to me  

message: The "Easterling" section seems to suggest (a) that the Easterling silver was chosen for its hardness and suitability for coinage, and then (b) that this silver was eventually reblended to reach... the same purity, for what seems to be inflation reasons?
If not contradictory, this section is certainly confusing.
I have added the contradict template for now. I don't know enough about the subject to do anything more here, just ran across it.
--209.159.64.4 (talk) 22:36, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Easterling Contradiction 

message: I am in the middle of rewriting the standards section, and other changes, but am taking a break for dinner, etc. I wrote most of the original part of this.
Will explain changes made in a bit, hopefully later this evening...
Mrs rockefeller (talk) 22:32, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Editing Standards and Other Information 

message: I told you that I was writing a major edit, and would explain the rationale behind it.
Originally, I started to make a minor edit, but the more I read over the page, the more I thought that it just rambled, and parts of it had nothing to do with sterling silver, which this page is supposed to cover.
=== Major Change #1 ===
I didn't think that listing a big long list of "Other silver standards" had any place on this page, which is about sterling silver. Therefore, I have created a separate page called Silver standards. The edited first paragraph makes mention of this page.
=== Major Change #2 ===
There were two problems with the "Hallmarks" secton:
* the information was getting too lengthy
* there were descriptions of hallmarks on silver that were not used to mark sterling (silver of the 925 millesimal fineness)
Therefore, I moved this information to a separate page titled Silver hallmarks. This page now has a short description, and provides a link to the new page. I plan to improve this page, as time permits.
===Introductory paragraph===
First, about the photograph. Whoever uploaded this misspelled "sterling" as "stirling" repeatedly. I changed the spelling in the file's description and in the text under the photo, but, the filename still retains the misspelling.
Incidentally, I should state here that I checked several reputable sources containing the capitalization of the word "sterling" when it is used in reference to the silver standard. All of these sources agree that it is not capitalized. Therefore, as I was editing, I also lowercased everywhere that I found an error in capitalization. This included the above-referenced photograph.
===Ongoing confusion over origin of term, and endless loop referral===
I decided to try to research some references for the origin of the term sterling silver, because we haven't gotten very far with that. I found numerous articles on the web. However, most of them are derived from THIS PAGE. Meaning that if we use any of them as a reference, it would end up that we are using ourselves as a reference. That would not be good at all.
===Other uses of (sterling) silver===
There were a couple of references to uses of silver that were inappropriately placed. I decided that there should be a separate section for these.
===Tarnish and Corrosion ===
These sections were combined into one. Why were they separated in the first place?
"An easy way to shine silver is to take some dry baking soda and rub it on the metal with one's fingers, then to rinse it with mineral-free water." I challenge this sentence. You must be so careful when dealing with antique silver! I would NOT apply something that could end up scratching the finish and ruining the patina.
=== References ===
Whoever posted the message that there were no references was correct. We did need references. Although I originally wrote the "Hallmarks" and "History of sterling silver and dining regalia" sections straight from memory, and did not have any particular book in front of me as a reference, I know that I did not obtain this knowledge by osmosis. Therefore, I assembled a list of the books I have on hand, from which my knowledge was likely to have come.
Mrs rockefeller (talk) 19:26, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Major Edit 

message: Whoever posted the message that there were no references was correct. We did need references. Although I originally wrote the "Hallmarks" and "History of sterling silver and dining regalia" sections straight from memory, and did not have any particular book in front of me as a reference, I know that I did not obtain this knowledge by osmosis. Therefore, I assembled a list of the books I have on hand, from which my knowledge was likely to have come.
Mrs rockefeller (talk) 19:26, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: While editing the text for the photo of the center bowl, I happened to notice that whoever posted this photo had, through the larger version of the photo, been using this encyclopedia as an advertisement to bring visitors to a commercial site for the sale of expensive silver pieces! At first I thought that this link was to a museum-type site, but when I visited the site it was obvious that we have been "used" to draw traffic and increase sales. This made me pretty angry.
The second photo showed hallmarks, but didn't say who the maker was.
Not only this, but the text and file names were horribly misspelled, something that we don't have control over and can't correct.
I went as far as to remove the two photos.
I'm sure that one of us has a photo we can use from a private collection. In fact, I have an idea in mind.
Mrs rockefeller (talk) 21:30, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photos being used to draw traffic for commercial website! 

message: I came to Wiki looking for info on the numbers 925 that you find stamped on jewelry and other silver items.  A search on the number, 925, referred me to this article for Sterling silver, but the 925 stamp itself isn't mentioned.  Could someone with more knowledge than me add that to the article, please?
I know what the stamp means, and was once told by a jeweler-friend to look for it, but I was wondering what the origin is, whether it's an official thing, if it's an international standard of some sort (as much as that sort of thing can be) how reliable it is, etc. 
Zdsowg (talk) 17:47, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems that a three-digit stamp indicates the parts-per-thousand purity ("millesimal fineness") of the metal. For example, 9ct gold (9 parts out of 24) equates to 375. Whereas 925 is the purity used for "sterling silver". The question is, what does it mean when 925 is stamped on gold jewelry? Does it indicate sterling silver with gold plating? Which would indicates that an item is much cheaper than it appears... only one step above thinly-coated nonprecious-metal jewelry, and perhaps still half a step below "rolled gold" plating (which is misleadingly called gold filled, but the filling is nonprecious-metal)... Cesiumfrog (talk) 23:02, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Before fineness was measured in decimals, with 1 = 1000, the practice was roman weight fractions.  These are normally rated with a unit = pound, so eg silver has 1 lb = 12 oz each of 20 dwt.  Sterling silver is 11 oz, 2 dwt, Brittania os 11 oz, 10 dwt.  Gold was rated against the solidus of 24 carats of 4 grains each.  Because the solidus disappeared, one finds reference to a pound divided in this manner (1 lb = 24 carats or 96 grains).  See eg Measures, Weights and Moneys of all Nations, W.S.B. Woodhouse.
--Wendy.krieger (talk) 10:20, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  925 stamp on jewelry 

message: There is a list of courses at a large dinner with a list of possible courses. This might well be interesting but I am not sure it has much to do with sterling silver especially as it is inaccurte in one respect and that makes me wonder if it is accurate at all. It mentions an antipasto course as a possible course. This means a pre-pasta course, but they don't mention a pasta course and I doubt/wonder if one would commonly have existed in such a dinner.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.30.185.104 (talk) 14:35, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of courses at a large dinner 

message: Would anyone be interested in helping to set up a WikiProject Silverware? I'm interested in salvers, coffee pots, jugs, candlesticks, famous silversmiths, different styles, etc. Thanks. Girlwithgreeneyes (talk) 11:29, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Setting up WikiProject Silverware? 

message: I was horrified to see that someone had added a link to a FOX News page on how to "revive tarnished silver." The recommendations given on this page will ruin your silver! I have substituted instead a link to a silver care page on the website of Jeffrey Herman, a silversmith who specializes in silver restoration and conservation. (Disclosure: I have no affiliation with Herman whatsoever.)
Herman goes into detail about all of the various silver care methods, gathered during his many years of professional experience, but he has some special words of condemnation for silver dips and the tin foil method. It doesn't matter that the site distinguishes between jewelry and antique silver. The problems I have with this are: a) These methods will still ruin your silver jewelry; and b) There are many people who will ignore the advice not to use the methods for antique sterling. They will use them anyway, with disastrous results.
First, using silver dip, a liquid containing acidified thiourea (also a potential carcinogen, classified as hazardous waste), will brighten areas of the silver design that were not meant to be bright. In the creation of patterns with three-dimensional decorations, the design is given an oxidized black background in order to make the element visually "pop." Liquid dips brighten the oxidized areas, making the piece look like one bright blob. I personally can tell that a piece of silver has been dipped by looking at it from ten feet away. And as a collector, I would never buy such a piece. It is possible for a silversmith to restore the black oxidation, but it is pricey.
Silver dip chemically converts the tarnish to a whitish substance that is devilishly hard to remove---harder than the original tarnish!---but needs to be removed to restore the shine. I once received a teapot that had been dipped from an eBay seller. Even if it had been heavily tarnished, I could have polished it (with silver cream and plenty of elbow grease) in an hour or so. But the substance left behind by the dip required 3-4 days of polishing with Wenol (an expensive and more abrasive German jeweler's rouge polish). Note that if the item had been silver plated, the heavy abrasion required to remove the damage caused by the dip might also have removed the electroplate.
The aluminum foil and baking soda method, also mentioned on the FOX site, works very similarly to silver dips, and is also a no-no. Both of these methods will actually degrade the silver, causing it to become porous and tarnish more easily in the future.
Many people also do not realize what a soft metal sterling silver is. Sterling is an alloy of 92.5 percent silver and 7.5 percent other metals. Pure silver is extremely soft. Sterling is slightly less so, due to the properties of the other metal (usually copper), but still very easy to dent and scratch. Which is why the FOX News recommendation to use toothpaste made me cringe! Toothpaste contains fine abrasive powders that will horribly scratch your silver. Leave toothpaste for your teeth! (And don't forget to floss.)
See the Herman Silver site for more information on polishing and storing.
Mrs rockefeller (talk) 18:54, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  How to Ruin Your Silver: Follow FOX News Advice