Talk:Men of Harlech

message: The article for this song seems reasonably good. The lyrics should be moved to Wikisource? JPB 19:02, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably should be moved, but I'm too lazy - all that dragging and dropping! --Jpbrenna 22:11, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

text: Yes, but as Joshuabowman suggested, both Welsh and English lyrics should probably appear at Wikisource, not here.--Jpbrenna 04:23, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussion of lyrics 

message: Hello,
The article says the song refers to the battle with 'Owain Glyndwr' but on the 'Harlech Castle' page it says it is in reference to a battle 60 years later. Just thought you might want to check. ???
Later.
203.221.209.42 15:29, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  A possible inconsistancy... Origin of the song

message: I came to learn about the song, having heard a reference to it years ago in a Monty Python sketch (where one hears a performance introduced, "Men Of Harlech, for bicycle bells only"). I think the article about a song should have all the significant lyrics. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mooncaine (talk • contribs) 05:05, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  I think the lyrics belong here 

message: No look, this is getting out of hand. There are far too many versions set out in full in the article. Private versions such as Canadian Hussars or Wrexham FC aren't notable enough to appear in full in an article about an ancient song, though they might be mentioned. This is the English language Wikipedia and full Welsh lyrics have no place here, as they will be incomprehensible to the vast majority of readers.
In the absence of consensus about no more than three sets of lyrics considered notable, I think all of them should be removed. My suggestion, though. would be that lyrics demonstrated to have been published in mainstream songboooks with a wide circulation be retained, and the rest removed. 
The really notable thing about this song is that there are so many versions, and no apparently dominant version. That is what the article should discuss. Who did write it, and with what lyrics? Cyclopaedic 19:04, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too many versions 

message: Remember that copyright subsists in  song lyrics, or adaptations of them. They can only be reproduced here if out of copyright or appropriately licensed. Cyclopaedic (talk) 09:25, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyright 

message: Wikipedia is open source so as it is not making any money out of these lyrics, i see no harm.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Opensource4ever (talk • contribs) 21:23, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Two issues.  First, we can only reproduce the lyrics if the copyright holder of the lyrics permits it.  Secondly, you state that Wikipedia is open source, which is not correct.  Wikipedia uses the CC-BY-SA 3.0 License. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 20:56, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

text: Removing copyright violations is a legal requirement, not censorship. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 17:46, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: User at IP address 81.97.54.237 again reverted the deletion of the copyvio material. Please refrain from doing so. Cyclopaedic (talk) 21:38, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Freedom 

message: I did some fairly extensive Googling to try to find the song's origins and citations for them, but only ended up adding to the confusion with conflicting sources for authorship and first publication of the lyrics. Two older books actually suggested that the music was composed during the siege, but (not being a musical historian) I dismissed this as fundamentally unlikely. Cyclopaedic (talk) 11:31, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  More on origins 

message: I have again culled examples of use by [my school / university / regiment / sports club]. Please refrain from adding more. the article says that the song is widely used around the world, so isolated examples (or lists) do not add anything to an article about the song. Cyclopaedic (talk) 15:10, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, agreed. It was my school song but we used the melody, not the lyrics. Saying ‘Men of Harlech’ is our school song is incorrect. (Sydney Technical High; BTW - they are about to update the lyrics. After nearly a century. So much for tradition.)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.240.70.52 (talk) 01:58, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Examples of use 

message: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Abraham_(trade_unionist)
" Men of Harlech " is a patriotic song whose pattern lends itself to adaptations for various purposes e.g. comedic often, and this is an example taken from page 41 of ' Democratic Rhondda, Politics and Society, 1885 - 1951 ' by Chris Williams, UWP 1996 - 
Mabon's 1910 Election Song
Rhondda men be strong in action,
We must rout the Tory faction,
And to win in this Election,
Mabon is our man.
The Tories' rule is Autocratic,
We must have it Democratic;
Therefore, with voice emphatic,
House of Lords must go.
Nought but tribulation,
Give they to the nation;
The People's votes and not the Lords'
Must govern legislation:
Vote for Freedom, no Protection,
Vote for Progress, no defection,
Vote for Mabon, next Election -
Strike a Free Trade blow.
( That is how it appears in this book - but for my own purposes I have split this up into four line sections, made the punctuation more emphatic and re-written one line as ' Give they to our nation ' instead etc. Mabon won the 1910 election, of course ... )DaiSaw (talk) 06:01, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mabon's 1910 Election Song 

message: In case it is any use, here is a fairly literal English translation of the Welsh words that appear in the Welsh language article (which there is no need to paste here in full, but it's the version that starts "Wele goelcerth wen yn fflamio"). This is my own translation, so I guess that usual caveats about unsourced material would apply.
 See a white bonfire flaming
 and tongues of fire shouting
 for the brave to come to strike
 once again as one.
 By the shouts of princes,
 The voice of enemies, the clatter of weapons,
 And the galloping of the cavalry,
 Rock that clashes on rock.
 Arfon will never be subdued
 It is sung eternally;
 Wales will be as Wales was
 Eminent among nations
 In the white light of yonder bonfire
 On the lips of a dying Welshman
 Independence is calling
 For her bravest man.
 The enemy may not kill and pursue.
 Harlech! Harlech! Arise to pursue them.
 The great Giver of our Freedom
 gives us strength.
 See Wales and her armies
 Pouring down from the mountains
 They rush like waterfalls
 They bound like the flood!
 Success to our cavalry
 In restraining the stranger's sword!
 May he know in his heart
 How the sword of a Briton pierces.
 Sword will play against sword,
 Steel hit against steel.
 See Wales's banner on high.
 Freedom will go with her!
The word translated "Briton" in the last verse is of course as in Britons (Celtic people) - not the modern usage that includes the English!
Money money tickle parsnip (talk) 20:57, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  lyrics again 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Men of Harlech. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://archive.is/20150309175419/http://www.saga.co.uk/lifestyle/people/real-lives/woad-marching-song.aspx to http://www.saga.co.uk/lifestyle/people/real-lives/woad-marching-song.aspx
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 17:32, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: Shouldn't the article mention that in Wales Ar Hyd Y Nos (All through the night is sung to the same tune). Everybody got to be somewhere! (talk) 23:04, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ar Hyd Y Nos