Talk:Morinda citrifolia

message: The fruit contains L-DOPA, the precursor of Dopamine. All fruit fly species beside one avoid the fruit.
https://plus.google.com/101046916407340625977/posts/4UFYTwRm4GJ  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.95.230.12 (talk) 10:14, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Ingredients of the Noni fruit

message: We just discussed that alleged de:Xeronin in german wp, and we decided to keep an article there. Chemical, physical properties and chemical structure of X are unknown. When i asked german TNI-people for more information, i got no answer. Xeronin is completely unknown in medical or biochemical literature.
Heinicke published his patented "discovery" 1985 in a rather strange horticultural paper: 
pacific tropical botanical garden bulletin (1985  15:10-14)
Scientist McClatchey writes: i cite:
...an outrageous publication in the pacific tropical botanical garden bulletin. This unreferenced and authoritatively written report appearing in a horticultural bulletin, proposes the presence of an active compound in Morinda citrifolia known as Xeronine, which is said to be derived from a precursor, Proxeronine.....it may have been better published in the journal of irreproducible results...end citation. source: http://www.gilray.ca/MorindaCitrifolia.pdf  
later publications are to be considered as "unpublished reports" by Heinicke himself.
here is something you may find on the websites of TNI:
*http://resorthealth.com/noni_research/heinecke.html   
*http://www.nonijuicecentral.com/noni_research.pdf
Redecke 23:58, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Xeronine

message: Before you go into this article, take a look at patent number 4,543,212. That will clarify what Xeronine is and confirm that it DOES come from the Noni fruit.
I'm confused by the Xeronine claims.  It's stated that this substance is the active substance in noni juice (I assume this is for some kind of health claim) and yet someone has a patent on the substance?  I assume then that this substance is an additive and not from the Noni?  If so, there's no reason to have it in the article -- I've removed it for the time being until someone can provide a reliable reference; the study "Some chemical constituents of Morinda citrifolia" didn't mention this substance.  Honestly, this isn't a proving ground for those for and against Noni juice, supposed medical claims etc.  There are much better forums for that kind of discussion.
I rewrote the legal section again.  We aren't here to tell people what is or is not legal -- just the facts ma'am.  If we state that the noni hasn't been approved for medical or theraputic use, there's no reason to point out the obvious and the section reads more like an encyclopedia.  Also, it is incorrect to state that the studies determined it was not Noni juice that caused the hepatitis; one specifically states the preparation was juice while the other is more general and suggests the substance might come from a particular substance found in the "preparation" - I haven't been able to get a full copy of that study yet though.  Writing a sentence to claim that the juice wasn't at fault is terribly POV and contrary to the referenced studies.
I removed the PubMed external link -- if you want to cite a study, do so, otherwise telling people to go here and search isn't how external links are usually handled.  I've also removed the reference to the PDR.  First, it was cited incorrectly; there is no volume and issue for the PDR and the name wasn't even correct.  Second, it is less than a page of information on a particular brand of Noni juice that has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on this article other than an attempt to make a particular brand of juice look more legitimate.  Again, this is an encyclopedia article on the Noni shrub and should not be used as an attempt to promote or discredit products made from the fruit of said shrub.
I've added  in a couple of places that still don't have a reference.  For instance, the ancient mentions of Noni or its specific uses.  I found a reference for the dye, famine food and regular food and mention of general medicinal uses in Polynesia; I can't find a reference off hand for the medical specifics used in the article.  I know the "Noni Research" site includes them, but they don't list their sources and since they are so pro Noni juice/products, it would be better to have a direct source.  I moved the references into the article to make verifying which statements come from which sources easier (using ); while there, I change the link to the European Commisions paper on the noni as a novel food to a reference for that statement in the article. .:.Jareth.:. babelfish 13:44, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: noniresearch.org is nothing else than a promo site owned by a manufacturer of noni products. noniresearch.org is not a scientific site nor a scientific organization. It's just a marketing trick of Morinda Inc. to mock scientific content. Therefore this site should not be linked. ghw 14:02, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I did change the link to state that it is promotional, I was going to look over the external link policy here in a bit and see if it meets the criteria for inclusion.  If you think it doesn't meet those criteria, feel free to remove it. .:.Jareth.:. babelfish 14:07, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

text: That's why I mentioned it actually.  By the way, the reason the sentence about the European Commission's scientists findings on the juice was removed is because this article isn't about the juice, and the findings are mentioned in the legal section.  If you want to start an article on the brand of juice they reviewed, it would be apropo to include it there (but the article would have to meet other criteria for inclusion obviously).  I understand there's some undercurrent here, but honestly, this article isn't about the juice and its magical properties or lack thereof. .:.Jareth.:. babelfish 12:40, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Changes 

message: I removed this statement and its reference:
:  The oldest known reference to the plant as a medicine dates back several thousand years to ancient Sanskrit Ayurvedic medicinal texts in India where the plant was called Ach.
:
In the source given, nothing more than the names for the tree from certain areas is listed, along with journal sources for these names.  The references it cites for India using the word Ach are modern and do not support the statement about ancient times.  Since this was the entire reason for the statement, there's no reason just to have the Indian name in there (its used in the Indian version of Wikipedia). .:.Jareth.:. babelfish 12:40, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sanskrit

message: I realize that I did not use the same format in making the citation for the information regarding the use of noni for menstrual difficulties, etc.  I am unfamiliar with the type of reference used on this page.  I will attempt to familiarize myself with it, although I wonder why the other format is not used, since to me and others it is likely easier.  --Mylitta 03:55, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Edits

message: I'm wondering why the link I provided in the External Links section was removed? That article was very balanced, in my opinion.  Are only negatively slanted articles allowed there?--Mylitta 06:08, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Link Removal

message: I'd really like someone here to create an article about the company at Tahitian Noni. I don't think I'm well suited to the task, but I'll stub it out if no one else does. McKay 07:10, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. McKay 17:35, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Company

message: I've posted notices to talk pages about the lack of notability (as per WP:EL) of the link that keeps getting added. I can't revert again without violating WP:3RR. Does anyone else care about the page? cuz if I'm the only one, I may as well leave, as I don't really care about this content myself. McKay 19:54, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I care. I just reverted it. I do care about keeping the WP non-commercial, and removing commercial and MLM-promoting cruft when I see it. The linker is clearly over 3RR by now and could be reported for breaking 3RR. I'll do it if I have time later today. I'm busy, but I'll try to back you up. Zora 20:05, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Technically, he is still clear on the 3RR, unless the sockpuppetry is shown as being true, then we might have a case for a WP:3RR vio. McKay 20:10, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Checkuser? Zora 20:14, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: an admin already started a sockpuppet check. McKay 20:36, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

text: I know what you mean about feeling overwhelmed. As WP gets more popular, we get more people trying to "use" it for various nefarious ends, and more ignorant and fug-headed editors. It feels like protecting a sandcastle against the tide. Zora 20:05, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  yeah, I totallly know where you're coming from. McKay 20:10, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism

message: Unregistered contributor 71.67.169.75 posted this on August 30, 2007
:I have to say I'm a rather dissappointed in the biased tone the writer took in an effort to "educate" readers about noni juice. Primarily negatives were discussed, excluding much positve that has been documented on the use of noni juice that has been supported by medical research. Other pages that discuss natural health products do not take on such skepticism. The writer responsible appears to have a hidden agenda. Pages like this really call into question the integrity of Wikipedia as a reliable source for education to the public. I am not suggesting to purport noni juice as a "wonder product" as websites that market the product do, but leaving the page biased is a grave dis-service to the reader.
As there likely will be other challenges to the facts now presented in the article, we can air them out here. Contrary to the above comments, there are no satisfactory, objective studies showing health benefits of consuming noni juice. No putative benefit has either sufficient underlying science and certainly no human studies completed to confirm a specific organ benefit.
Furthermore, the only "agenda" is to tell the truth, a goal of Wikipedia as a source of accurate information.
Published today was a report on hearings held in Europe to evaluate how manufacturers of natural products must word their communications about the potential health benefits of their products. The EU regulations apply to all commercial communications, including every claim made on labels, brochures, web sites, press articles and even verbal statements made at conferences, which is a whole new structure from the way companies operate today.
The health and nutrition claims (Regulation (EC) No 1924/2006), which came into force in the UK from 1 July 2007, mean any food product claiming to have a health or nutritional benefit must meet a list of European Commission approved wording.
The regulation differentiates between claims on the basis of 4 categories: 1) nutrient claims, 2) health claims, 3) disease reduction claims and 4) claims relating to children's development and health.
Under Article 13, claims must be substantiated on the basis of generally accepted scientific evidence, and be well understood by the average consumer. 
Now put that information into perspective for how one interprets all the marketing literature about noni juice. It can be easily seen that manufacturers and marketers who make exaggerations about noni's health benefits -- when there is no science to support such claims -- are in violation of these new laws. --Paul144 15:04, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Critical assessment of noni juice nutrients

message: Captivating reading. The site purports to expose scams and just tell the truth, so is worthy for each person to read and make one's own judgment. --Paul144 17:28, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: WorlwideWarning.net -- Exposing noni juice scams

message: I will leave it to better editors to include data from the following paper into this topic:
Biol Pharm Bull. 2009 Mar;32(3):405-9
Preventive effect of Morinda citrifolia fruit juice on neuronal damage induced by focal ischemia.  Harada S, Hamabe W, Kamiya K, Satake T, Yamamoto J, Tokuyama S.  Department of Clinical Pharmacy, Faculty of Pharmaceutical Sciences, Kobe Gakuin University, Hyogo, Japan.
: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/utils/fref.fcgi?PrId=3580&itool=AbstractPlus-def&uid=19252286&db=pubmed&url=http://joi.jlc.jst.go.jp/JST.JSTAGE/bpb/32.405?from=PubMed
Jcline0 (talk) 20:07, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: This is very preliminary research in mice from which nothing pertaining to humans can be concluded. If the noni juice used in the experiments was the commercial product available, it is more likely the beneficial effects in the mouse brain were due to grape or blueberry juice (which have significant pigmentation, possibly providing phenolic effects) than to the noni (unpigmented, no evidence for having significant antioxidant activity). --Zefr (talk) 10:54, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Preventive effect of Morinda citrifolia fruit juice on neuronal damage

message: I have reverted a larger section on medical applications of the noni fruit as it is not really neutral. Just an example:
:"[...] and so humanity lost for a while the amazing gift of Health and Well Being that Nature had endowed it with in the form of Morinda citrifolia L.."
Furthermore all mentioned informations are very vague and no medical publication is given, just some names of some people in order to support certain claims. E.g.:
: "In 1993, Dr. Ralph Heinicke in his research on Morinda citrifolia L. isolated a new component in Morinda citrifolia L. — Damnacanthal. Damnacanthal induced normal cell growth in pre-cancer cells."
Damnacanthal seems to be a mysterious magic substance of unknown composition and Dr. Ralph Heinicke never published his findings in a scientific medical journal. Furthermore in the end the list
:"150 + Nutraceuticals in Noni are: 1. ethylthomethyl) benzene 2. 1-hexanol 3. hydroxyanthraquinone  4. 2-heptanone [...]"
does not fit into a Wikipedia article. So I completely removed all these parts and added a neutrality warning in order to sort this problem out on the talk page. Arnomane (talk) 01:18, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality 

message: This section needs development and assessment if it warrants being included with the article. --Zefr (talk) 16:51, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Studied medicinal uses

message: I've removed the section. We simply shouldn't be presenting any pilot or preliminiary studies at all from my understanding of WP:NPOV and WP:MEDRS unless there are being used to source additional, important details from far better sources. I'm also concerned about the change in information, sources, and tone from June through September. --Ronz (talk) 15:00, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Possible medicinal properties

message: Removing this section from the article where it can serve as a reference, but is not essential information for the English Wikipedia. --Zefr (talk) 01:26, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Names in other languages

message: When M. citrifolia juice alone is analyzed and compared to pulp powder, only vitamin C is retained[10] in an amount that is about half the content of a raw navel orange.[11] Sodium levels in M. citrifolia juice (about 3% of Dietary Reference Intake, DRI)[9] are high compared to an orange, and potassium content is moderate. The juice is otherwise similar in micronutrient content to a raw orange.[11]81.11.218.210 (talk) 18:40, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  refers2 1GLAS/FRUIT?? 

message: This is featured in the Season 8 Episode 8 (S8E8) of Outrageous Acts of Science, broadcast on 8/9/17, where they discuss this Youtube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqISqL8M8yQ). They explain that the vomit reflex that is often stimulated by eating noni fruit is caused by high levels of octanoic and hexanoic acids in the ripened fruit. Since this is the most recent episode, I can't link directly to it as a Reference, so my edit was reverted by User:Zefr. If anyone can help me get this edit accepted, I would appreciate it. I hope eventually the episode clip itself will appear on Youtube, but who knows how long that will take. Gil gosseyn (talk) 08:19, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: We shouldn't use Youtube as a WP:RS source, explained in WP:YT, especially as something specifically related to a physiological response to fatty acids. There is already discussion of the foul odor in the description of hexanoic acid. I don't know why the specific mechanism of the vomiting reflex is important to mention; WP:UNDUE. --Zefr (talk) 14:31, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Just for clarity, the reference for the content Gil added isn't really YouTube, it is the science program Outrageous Acts of Science in which experts discuss the science behind popular YouTube videos.  Maybe still not a reliable source, but certainly much better than some random YouTube video.  Deli nk (talk) 14:50, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Octanoic and hexanoic acids and the vomit reflex. 

message: This edit, suggesting analgesic and antidiabetic effects (from lab studies), requires the highest-quality evidence to support such major clinical effects, which have not been shown in the source offered or any other literature; see WP:MEDRS. As editors, we have to actually read the article and the literature upon which it was based. That literature is from weak, unreliable reports, low-quality primary clinical research, and extensive exaggeration of interpretation bordering on quackery. This is the "clinical" section from the review, which is not only absent of any encyclopedic information, but is also 13-16 years out of date. In no way can that review qualify as a source for medical content in Wikipedia. Zefr (talk) 20:25, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Traditional medicine and supposed anti-disease effects 

message: Is it also called aal in English? 173.88.246.138 (talk) 00:11, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: "awl tree" is listed as a name in the University of Hawaii's Noni website reference, which looks like an anglicisation of "aal". I've now added awl tree to the common names listed in the article. Declangi (talk) 11:14, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Also called "aal"?