Talk:Pumping Iron

message: Perhaps it could be noted that the dvd release is the edited version with several minutes cut from it which included a surprising scene where Arnold is see sharing a marijuana cigarette with several others. Got the original on vhs recorded from cable about 20+ years ago.202.101.173.68 23:08, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: "During his competitive years Arnold was known to use many tricks in his favour when it came to the competitions.  One such example was when he was competing against the legendary Sergio Oliva for an Olympia title. Schwarzenegger whilst on stage made the comment that he was tired of posing and that the two should exit the stage. Oliva agreed; however, Arnold had no intention of going anywhere, and Oliva walked off stage to many boos and hisses from fans who thought it arrogant not to stay on stage."
I removed the text above, because it didn't happen in the film. --Silvestre Zabala 00:03, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  removed text 

message: I've put an actual movie poster from the time up here (per wikiproject film), but I retained and moved the anniversary DVD pic; however I think the page is crowded with pics and think the VHS cover should probably go.  Objections? Reimelt 22:32, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  images 

message: Otto4711: Re  I think that this page should be in :category:Arnold Schwarzenegger because this is essentially a documentary about Arnold Schwarzenegger. It is not a categorization based on "who appeared" in the movie. We do categorize documentations by their subject matter, for instance March of the Penguins is in both :category:Antarctica and :category:Penguins. This seems to be useful. Can you explain why this documentary ought not be in his category more than just to say "we don't do ____"? — brighterorange (talk) 18:22, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *Personally I think "we don't do ___ " is enough reason by itself. There has been a broad consensus established across innumerable XfD discussions that films, TV shows, etc. should not be categorized based on the people who appear in them. If there were :Category:Films about Arnold Schwarzenneger then the film might belong there but per consensus it doesn't belong in AS's eponymous category. This is not a documentary about AS. It's a documentary about a particular bodybuilding competition. I see no reason to make an exception to consensus for AS and Pumping Iron that can then be pointed to as an excuse for other miscategorization later. Pumping Iron is linked in AS's article and AS is linked here so anyone at one article who wants to read the other can use those links with no need for the category. Otto4711 18:39, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *Well, is there a guideline or policy about this? (It's true that we don't categorize films by the actors that appear in them, but this is not an instance of that.) I don't see the broad consensus, and I don't think it's at all clear that "we don't do it."  I believe the analogy is quite clear between say March of the Penguins and :category:Antarctica and Pumping Iron and :category:Arnold Schwarzenegger (or: Triumph of the Will and :category:Adolf Hitler; Grizzly Man and :category:Environmentalism; The Hero's Journey and :category:Joseph Campbell; Michael & Me (documentary) and :category:Michael Moore; and many others). Are those all mistakes? I don't have a large stake in this, but I simply don't see the harm in having this additional way of navigating to the article: Arnold Schwarzenegger is certainly a primary subject of this documentary film. — brighterorange (talk) 20:20, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *We don't do it because there have been dozens upon dozens of CFD discussions on the topic of categorizing people by the projects in which they appear or participate. We do not categorize people as members of film casts. We do not categorize people as members of television casts. We do not categorize people as directors, writers or producers of films or television shows. We do not categorize television personalities on the basis of what networks they work for. We do not categorize people for guest appearances. It has been well established that all of these categories are overcategorization (those such categories which do currently exist are in the process of being deleted). There is no difference between categorizing Pumping Iron in AS's category and categorizing any other film of his on the basis of his being in it. It's categorizing by performer and we don't do it. I have not looked at your other examples so I can't comment on them, other than suggesting that the penguin movie would fit better in a hypothetical :Category:Films set in Antarctica if it existed than it would in the Antarctica parent category. Otto4711 05:13, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *The suggestion is not that this film is categorized based on his "appearance" in it. His role in this film is not as performer but as subject matter. In that capacity I see numerous examples of films categorized by subject matter, so your statement that we "don't do it" has many counterexamples and is therefore not very convincing to me. Can you address that? — brighterorange (talk) 13:02, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

text: *Note that because :Category:Films about penguins exists as a subcat of :Category:Penguins, I have removed March of the Penguins from the parent category. Otto4711 19:30, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

text: *No, it's no different. It's categorizing a film on the basis of who's in it and well-established consensus and guidelines says not to do it. Otto4711 05:13, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The difference is that Pumping Iron is almost regarded now as a biographical document for Schwarzenegger. Sort of similar to having The Reagans or Why I Want to Fuck Ronald Reagan in the Ronald Reagan category. Pascal.Tesson 12:22, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Categorization 

message: The link to one of authors Charles Gaines goes to a man who is not one of the authors of this book. I believe the author of the book is Charles L. Gaines, I think he is also in the movie challenging Arnold about his tough guy attitude. Idntsleepin 05:26, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Charles Gaines  

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thread_title:  External links modified