Talk:Liquefied petroleum gas

message: "Implementatifactor to such use is the supply of LPG."  What?! --ozzmosis 17:39, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No matter if it is technically right or wrong, LPG is the name used by industry and by common people. Stepho-wrs (talk) 08:59, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

text: The adverb "liquefied" applies to the gas, not to the petroleum.  In this usage, "petroleum" is an adjective, not a noun.  Stupid comment.—QuicksilverT @ 17:59, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Implementatifactor

message: I've created a new page at Autogas (replacing a redirect to here) and will shortly move the content of the Usage in cars section to that page. I will also be moving some of the references at the same time.
This may create the need for other cleaning up in this article. If you spot something, feel free to fix it. :) --Athol Mullen 06:32, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Separation of [[Autogas]] section 

message: Some (small) warehouse forklift trucks have red gas bottles mounted on the back? Does anyone know about this?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.17.216.130 (talk) 10:04, August 24, 2007 (UTC) 
A Yep some forklifts shore do run on LPG one from a joinery plant used to always come an fill up at the local gas station wen i was there, some use 9kg 4.5kg bottles were as this one i remember had a big 45kg bottle Maximum effect (talk) 21:28, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Forklifts?

message: This mentions that LPG is better than refrigerants such as 134a because it doesn't deplete ozone, but accourding to R134a, neither does 134a. RobertDahlstrom 10:23, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Refrigeration 

message: WHY? YOU USES LPG AT HOME  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.163.69.205 (talk) 03:48, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  LPG 

message: LPG is sometimes used in homes that cannot be supplied by mains gas. This could be because they are too far away from any gas mains. For this purpose, the LPG can be stored in underground/above ground tanks. --N (talk) 10:09, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not just because of remote locations. In some suburban areas in Australia, there are sections of suburbs with reticulated natural gas, and other sections of the same suburb just a few streets away that do not have reticulated gas. People in the latter locations who want to use gas have no option but to use bottled LPG. --Athol Mullen (talk) 11:07, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Reason for use in homes

message: Current article reads Air source heat pumps extract heat from the surrounding air to produce energy. Again, LPG can be used as a supplementary heat source. I think I can see what that is supposed to mean, but these heat pumps don't actually produce energy from the surrounding air. Needs restatement IMO. Andrewa (talk) 15:32, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sort of. One problem is that energy has several possible meanings here of which the strict thermodynamic meaning is only one. In this sense, producing energy is a nonsense as energy is conserved. In the sense of energy resources it's also inaccurate. Hmmm... Andrewa (talk) 12:51, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: How to better say this

message: It looks as the external links section has a good bit of commercial promotion. Deleting the obvious and will leave the remainder to the powers that be. Mtt124 (talk) 00:52, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: *I agree with the cull that you've done.  It was overdue.  Any external links on any page should point to something directly relevant to the subject.  For example, the web site of a company marketing LPG is not appropriate, but a sub-page with technical information might be.  In that type of case, the sub-page, not the top page of that site should be linked.  Before culling sites, I like to look through to see if there is a worthwhile sub-page to change the link to rather than removing it, but wikipedia is not a directory, either, so if multiple sites have similar information, we really don't need all of them!  --Athol Mullen (talk) 08:07, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  External Links 

message: So which is better? LPG, CNG (compressed natural gas) or LNG (liquefied natural gas)?
Up and over for a six! (talk) 06:28, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Better 

message: Why is the safety section so disproportionately long compared to the others. It makes it sound like you are going to die if you are anywhere near this stuff.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.152.38.111 (talk) 16:32, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Safety

message: The section about LPG and renewables is over-long, apparently designed to make this fossil fuel appear greener than it is. Any fuel can be used as an alternative to renewables. A simple statement that LPG can be so used and can be available where mains electricity and gas are not is sufficient, IMHO. Any more is NOT A NEUTRAL POINT OF VIEW unless there are strong specific references to back up any claim. 91.84.111.246 (talk) 13:26, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Renewable energy 

message: Question - when carried in the gas cylinder ,is LPG in liquid form?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.181.112.184 (talk) 10:27, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The answer is yes, but not all is liquid.  Because it needs pressure to make it liquid, there will be some LPG vapour in the the top of the cylinder and the rest will be liquid.  --Athol Mullen (talk) 07:20, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Liquid in cylinder 

message: In the third paragraph (Vapor Pressure and such), I feel that the mention of the effect of chemical composition is important, but slightly irrelevant, as this article is only about propane.  Now, if the article were talking about the difference in vapor pressure due to impurities, I feel that would be interesting to note.  For example, some data (or charts) could be provided for vapor depressions due to the mixing of propane with other common refinery materials, such as hydrogen sulfide, carbon dioxide or various amines.
66.104.46.178 (talk) 23:39, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, this article is about LPG, which can be either "nominally pure" propane or a blend of propane and butane.  In some specifications I've seen, it even allows for propene and butene, etc..  As such, characteristics of varying blends are relevant.  I agree that mixtures with other materials would be interesting although perhaps not as relevant as commonly occurring commercial blends.  --Athol Mullen (talk) 01:10, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Composition versus Impurities 

message: Most of the section applies mainly to the canisters themselves, not the gas as such. Surely it shouldn't be on this page 81.156.175.217 (talk) 18:43, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fire safety section 

message: There's a statement in this article that LPG has been used in diesels, and the statement is followed by a citation-needed tag. As best I can tell, you can't run a diesel solely on LPG (at least, not without effectively converting the engine to spark ignition), but there are quite a few people who describe running an engine simultaneously on diesel and LPG, and the possible benefits thereof:
* Study on Diesel-LPG Dual-Fuel Engines
* http://alternativefuel 4x4.com/lpgdiesel_how_does_it_work.htm LPG/Diesel How Does It Work
* Can Diesel engines be converted to run on LPG?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wiml (talk • contribs) 02:58, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The term "Diesel" or "Diesel engine" refers to a compression-ignition engine.  Sure, it's possible to run a Diesel engine on LPG, and a wide range of other fuels, as long as the fuel-injection system and compression ratio are appropriately chosen.  This may mean that an engine designed to run on Diesel fuel can't run on LPG, but not that another Diesel engine couldn't be optimized to run on LPG.  Spark ignition is not needed at all.—QuicksilverT @ 18:39, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  LPG + Diesel 

message: I have updated the death toll: 29 deaths and approx 30 injuries.
Unfortunately I still don't know how to put references!
--Khrulghan (talk) 13:20, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Viareggio train burst 

message: I was searching for information on LPG use in power stations, and came across the CO2 emmisions data in the opening paragraphs of this article.  Unfortunately there is no source referenced so I can't use it.  I added a citation needed tag, but then I realized that there are a lot of statements in those first paragraphs that don't have sources.  Is it because they are the sort of facts that can be found in a text book and so considered 'common knowledge'?  I thought I would ask here before putting in a half a dozen 'citation needed' tags.  Thanks!WindyHaven (talk) 22:55, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: This section consists almost entirely of original research in the form of anecdotal detail, personal observation and prescription. The editor who originally added much of the questionable material has tried to justify this on my talk page by asking if I was personally experienced in the area: this is irrelevant. All material in articles should be adequately referenced to given secondary sources, preferably with inline citations, and our articles should neither devote undue coverage to certain sub-topics relative to the length of an article as a whole (as the safety section does here: it comprises almost 50% of the article length) nor contain material of a prescriptive nature. This is not a safety manual, nor an essay: it simply describes the subject. I believe that much of the prescriptive or anecdotal material in that section is unnecessary to understand the subject, and as such I'm going to try to remove it in the near future. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 11:22, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree.  See my comment in the section immediately above, regarding "supercooled LPG".—QuicksilverT @ 18:39, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

text: I primarily came to look at a basic overview of fire risks and safety protocols in place to prevent them. I was treated to a entire treatise on what the most horrendous doomsday scenarios were associated with LPG. I suggest the entire section be re-written from scratch, since it appears its more than half irrelevant to the topic at hand. 182.178.66.201 (talk) 04:43, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Fire risk and mitigation" section 

message: LPG is stored in cylinders or spheres, not tanks.  Although the colloquial English word "tank" is frequently used, it is technically incorrect.  A tank is an ambient-pressure storage vessel, with or without a roof, such as a "water tank" used as a reservoir for city water or a tank used for storage of crude oil. Due to the pressure vessel nature of LPG containers, they are always of circular cross-section.  A "tank" can have an arbitrary cross-section.  The word "tank" will be summarily removed from this article and anyone who uses it here will be banished to elementary school.—QuicksilverT @ 17:50, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Strangely enough, the vessels manufactured by most US manufacturers for yard vessels are called tanks.  American Welding & Tank is one example.  ASME vessels used for LPG residential and commercial service are all called tanks in most propane and NFPA literature. JSR (talk) 19:53, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tanks 

message: I looked through all the links, and selected a few of the more important and useful looking ones. May well not need any at all.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Scientific29 (talk • contribs) 16:09, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shortened External Links Again 

message: Firstly there is no "isopropane" so I have removed the "iso." (Three carbons - as propane has - cannot be arranged in a "T" such as butane, C4H10 can. Hexane is the first in the series with more than one iso- formula - pentane, like butane, is either linear or has one alternative structure) One can only surmise this nonsense originated with some chemistry-deficient PR flack somewhere and has been incorporated into this article (and the one on propane, and who knows how many other articles on propane as a refrigerant.) "Isopropane" is a trade term (unfortunate) for a refrigerant containing small amounts of isobutane.
I came here today looking for information related to natural gas engines. There is a dearth of clear information on the internet. It appears proposals for natural gas engines refer to propane or propane/butane mixtures. This is relevant because methane is the least CO2-generating fuel per unit energy, propane significantly more so.
"Liquified petroleum gas" is a poor term. We are apparently stuck with it. Wikipedia can be more analytical than trade expressions, however. 
Molecular diagrams would vastly increase the informative content of this article! I'm not savvy on these Wikipedia matters, however. Help from an experienced editor would be good! 
Mydogtrouble (talk) 14:02, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Basic Chemistry 

message: For the remark that LPG has a lower energy density per volume than gasoline (petrol) or fuel oil, where someone put a "cite" tag in, all that needs to be done is to specify the actual figures for gasoline or fuel oil. I don't believe this would be a violation of "no original research" because these are measurable physical quantities and thus held to be common fact. --208.181.64.45 (talk) 03:48, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citation not needed 

message: The article had a part where it stated LPG isn't toxic so there's no chance of poisoning. A brief glance at our articles (or any MDSS) on LPG's component gases will tell you how silly that particular statement was. I've removed it. Peter Greenwell (talk) 13:10, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, that is more or less true.  It isn't good to be exposed to propane at sufficiently high concentrations, but all exposure limits are based on flammability and not toxicity.JSR (talk) 17:39, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: PG, not knowing what you had in mind, I cannot criticise your decision -- yet. However, I think you owe us an explanation before demanding that we accept your decision. What toxicity did you have in mind? It certainly is true that you can poison someone with sufficient propane, but you could do the same with sufficient argon or nitrogen or oxygen too. Would you accept that we publish statements such as that Nitrogen is toxic? If not why not? And if yes, then what would you accept as non-toxic? I am not asking for anything formal, you understand, but... JonRichfield (talk) 18:03, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not toxic? 

message: Important is a very over used "opinion" word. Given the usage, one could say "important" about methane, carbon monoxide, nitrous oxide, etc. as all of these are greenhouse gases (see "IPCC list of greenhouse gases". Conspicuously absent, however, is the largest component, water vapor, which comprises ~95% of the greenhouse gases. OneNemesis (talk) 15:14, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed the word "important" from the phrase "an important greenhouse gas" in the section "Environmental effects" 

message: Removed this - appears to be WP:OR, or at the very least unsourced: 
For mobile tanks (propane, LNG, oxygen) You might want to consider this: Have 2 tanks with one inside the other the inside one contains the product, it will have 4, 6, 8, 10, 12  rows of unsightly and non aerodynamic Pressure Relief  Valves (PRV's) attached to the outside depending on the diameter of the tank this way if the tank rolls off the truck or truck rolls over there will be valves in a position to vent the gas. Make sure that BOTH ends have valves to in case the tank winds up on end.
EACH row of PRVs will have 3 or more valves set to go at different pressures in case a fire heats the product so much that even with the valve open the pressure could still cause an explosion. Since when a higher pressure valve opens a lower pressure one MIGHT close in order to vent more gas _ THE DIAMETER OF EACH VALVE MUST BE LARGER THAN THE VALVE BEFORE.
The will be pipes going from the PRV 's to the good looking and aerodynamic outside shell.
The ends will be shaped to be flush with the shell.TO ME this is common sense. YES, there will be more tankers on the road __BUT __ they will be a lot safer.
- added by . Note that I'm not disagreeing with anything, just saying that it doesn't meet Wikipedia's policy against original research, WP:OR. I left in the paragraph on BLEVEs and release valves by the same contributor, as I thought it made sense, though it's also unsourced. --Chriswaterguy talk 05:23, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed original research 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: (For related analysis, click on [ID:nSGE613099])
 Feb 4 (Reuters) - An Indian government panel on Wednesday
suggested ending controls on retail prices of petrol and
diesel. It has also suggested raising prices of kerosene sold
through the country's public distribution system and the
14.2-kg liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) cylinder.
 Here are revisions since 1989 in the retail prices of four
sensitive petroleum products in Delhi. Petrol, diesel and
kerosene prices are in rupees per litre, while LPG prices are
per cylinder.
  YEAR          PETROL  KEROSENE   DIESEL      LPG
 -------------------------------------------------
 Apr 1  1989      8.5    2.25       3.50      57.60
 Mar 20 1990     9.84     --        4.08       --
 Oct 15 1990    12.23    2.77       5.05       --
 Jul 25 1991    14.62    2.52        --       67.90
 Sep 16 1992    15.71     --        6.11      82.75
 Jan 12 1994      --      --         --       98.30
 Jan 14 1994      --      --         --       93.05
 Feb 02 1994    16.78     --        6.98       --
 Jul 03 1996    21.13     --        9.04     119.95
 Jul 07 1996      --      --        8.02       --
 Sep 02 1997    22.84     --       10.34     136.00
 Nov 07 1997      --      --       10.29       --
 Dec 12 1997      --      --       10.39       --
 Mar 01 1998      --      --       10.25       --
 Apr 04 1998      --      --       10.01       --
 May 20 1998      --      --        9.87       --
 Jun 03 1998    23.94     --         --        --
 Jan 09 1999      --      --        8.89       --
 Feb 01 1999      --      --         --      152.00
 Feb 28 1999    23.80     --        9.94     146.00
 Apr 20 1999      --      --       10.37       --
 Oct 06 1999      --      --       13.91       --
 Jan 15 2000#   25.94     --       14.04       --
 Mar 23 2000      --     5.55        --      196.55
 Apr 03 2000 *  26.07     --         --        --
 Sep 30 2000    28.44    8.35      16.55     232.25
 Nov 03 2000 ** 28.70     --         --        --
 Nov 22 2000      --     7.35        --      222.25
 Mar 03 2001***   --      --       17.06       --
 Jan 12 2002    27.54     --       17.09       --
 Mar 01 2002    26.54    8.98      16.59     259.95
 Mar 17 2002      --      --         --      240.45
 Jun 04 2002    28.94     --       17.99       --
 Jun 16 2002    29.18     --       18.23       --
 Aug 16 2002    29.00     --       18.05       --
 Sep 01 2002    29.20     --       18.34       --
 Sep 16 2002    29.66     --       18.68       --
 Oct 01 2002    29.91     --       18.91       --
 Oct 17 2002    30.24     --       19.23       --
 Nov 01 2002    30.26     --       19.25     241.20
 Nov 16 2002    29.57     --       18.57       --
 Dec 01 2002    28.91     --       18.06       --
 Jan 03 2003    29.93     --       19.07       --
 Jan 16 2003    30.33     --       19.47       --
 Feb 01 2003    30.71     --       19.84       --
 Mar 01 2003    32.10     --       21.21       --
 Mar 16 2003    33.49     --       22.12       --
 Apr 16 2003    32.49     --       21.12       --
 Apr 27 2003    31.49     --       20.12       --
 May 01 2003    31.50     --       20.13       --
 may 16 2003    30.40     --       19.18       --
 Jun 01 2003    30.30     --       19.08       --
 Jun 26 2003     --      9.01        --        --
 Sep 01 2003    32.40     --       20.33       --
 Oct 01 2003     --       --         --      241.60
 Oct 16 2003    31.70     --       19.73       --
 Dec 16 2003    32.70     --       20.73       --
 Jan 01 2004    33.70     --       21.73       --
 Mar 01 2004    33.71     --       21.74       --
 Jun 16 2004    35.71     --       22.74     261.60
 Aug 01 2004    36.81     --       24.16       --
 Nov 05 2004    39.00     --       26.28     281.60
 Nov 16 2004    37.84     --         --        --
 Jun 21 2005    40.49     --       28.45       --
 Jun 25 2005      --     9.08        --        --
 Sep 07 2005    43.49     --       30.45       --
 Apr 01 2006    43.51     --       30.47       --
 May 25 2006      --     9.09        --        --
 Jun 06 2006    47.51     --       32.47       --
 Nov 30 2006    44.85     --       31.25       --
 Feb 16 2007    42.85     --       30.25       --
 Mar 01 2007    42.85     --       30.25       --
 Jun 06 2007    43.52     --       30.48       --
 Sep 27 2007      --     9.16        --        --
 Feb 15 2008    45.52     --       31.76       --
 May 24 2008    45.56     --       31.80       --
 Jun 05 2008    50.56     --       34.80    346.30##
 Jul 18 2008    50.62     --       34.86        --
 Sep 12 2008     --      9.22        --         --
 Dec 06 2008    45.62     --       32.86        --
 Jan 29 2009    40.62     --       30.86      279.70
 Jul 02 2009    44.63     --       32.87         --
  # Sales tax revision in Delh on diesel from 11 percent to 12
percent
  * petrol with 0.05 percent sulphur introduced.
  ** petrol with 0.05 percent sulphur and 1 percent benzene
introduced.
  *** Diesel with 0.05 percent sulphur introduced in adjoining
areas to Delhi
  ## Effective retail price was 304.70 rupees per cylinder from
June 9, 2008 as the Delhi state government provided a subsidy
of 40 rupees/cylinder
 ($1=46.1 rupees)
 (Compiled by Nidhi Verma in NEW DELHI; Editing by Clarence
Fernandez)
Our standards: The Thomson Reuters Trust Principles Love Killer (talk) 03:32, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  TABLE-India's petrol, diesel, kerosene and LPG prices 

message: "LPG is liquefied by slight pressurization, not by cooling."
"The pressure at which LPG becomes liquid, called its vapour pressure, likewise varies depending on composition and temperature; for example, it is approximately 220 kilopascals (32 psi) for pure butane at 20 °C (68 °F), and approximately 2,200 kilopascals (320 psi) for pure propane at 55 °C (131 °F)."
=> LPG pressure = 220 kilopascals (32 psi) = 2.2 Bar, that's indeed not a lot. Can I add that it is 2.2 Bar? I think more people will understand that, don't you agree? Cheers, SvenAERTS (talk) 13:49, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  LPG pressure = 220 kilopascals (32 psi) = Eh? = 2.2 Bar = Ah ok, now I understand 

message: How prevalent is LPG use in USA? Drsruli (talk) 01:06, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: In that country it is called "propane", being entirely made from propane (as opposed to a mixture of propane and butane), and unless it's being used to heat a house or fuel a car, you'll generally find it in use as fuel for a barbecue. That said, talk pages on Wikipedia are not intended for the discussion of the subject in the related article, only the article itself. Ellenor2000 (talk) 04:01, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  American? 

message: It's useful to have a directory of sourced prices of an important fuel in a place people will be looking, but I suspect Wikipedia isn't the place for that. I'm not going to blank that section lest I start an edit war, but I would like to raise this as a question. Ellenor2000 (talk) 04:03, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Relevance to an encyclopedia of "#Lpg prices around the world" near the top