Talk:Mixolydian mode

message: There is a desperate need for sources to verify the explanation of modes in general, the specifics of Mixolydian and the Greek and medieval history. Perhaps some knowledgeable person can help locate sources.   — Chris Capoccia  T⁄C 07:33, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Expert help

message: is mediaeval supposed to be medieval?
ENSSB 20:25, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I guess it's one of those florae or faunae situations. ǣ or æ I think.
"Medieval" comes from "middle age" in latin, so it's a compounded (or contracted, not sure) word, and it's not a case of ǣ (which indicates one sound): medio-evale -> medieval. --David Be (talk) 01:30, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: mediaeval

message: if a song is in G mixolydian (GABCDEFG) would it was a key signature of no flats or one sharp,with a natural sign whenever F is played? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.65.31.160 (talk • contribs) .
:I would write it with no flats or sharps in the key signature, so no accidentals would need to be used for the basic scale. A lot of printed music I've seen uses this convention also, for example Bartok, who often uses modes other than major and minor. —Keenan Pepper 21:12, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have seen modal tunes printed with a major or minor key signature, but with accidentals throughout. For example, "Old Joe Clark" may be written in three sharps, with a natural sign applied to every G. From what I have seen, the better editions of traditional tunes do not do this kind of dumbing-down, which may come from the mistaken notion that the folks reading these tunes can only recognize major or minor key signatures. __ Just plain Bill (talk) 17:40, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Key signatures and accidentals (title added) 

message: Perhaps it should be mentioned that much of Scottish music, where not pentatonic, is in the Mixolydian mode. "Flower of Scotland", "Flowers of the Forest", Mairi's Wedding, "Scots Wha Hae" and "The Skye Boat Song" are a few of the many examples. Wmck 15:30, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: More than that, the Great Highland Bagpipe's chanter is in the mixolydian mode. NeverWorker (Drop me a line) 03:34, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scottish Music 

message: I wish to raise a query about this item in the list of pieces in the Mixolydian mode:
"It's a Long Way to the Top" by AC/DC is in A# Mixolydian.
I don't know the piece, so can't alter this description, even though I strongly suspect it's wrong almost to the point of certainty; perhaps someone who knows the piece (and has seen the sheet music) can do so.
The reason why I think it is almost certainly wrong is that the Mixolydian mode in A# would include F-double-sharp and C-double-sharp: the mode would run A# B# Cx D# E# Fx G# A#.  This is unlikely enough even in advanced classical music, even with those composers who do not shy away from remoteand Ab accidentals (flattened 7ths, i.e. Mixolydian) keys or complex notation; it seems practically impossible in a popular song.  So I'm wondering if it really should be the enharmonic equivalent Bb Mixolydian (Bb C D Eb F G Ab Bb - much, much simpler), or possibly A Mixolydian (A B C# D E F# G A - quite manageable).  Hearing the piece would not distinguish between A# and Bb Mixolydian; only examining the sheet music would settle this. M.J.E. 01:51, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: According to the sheet musichttp://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/mtd.asp?ppn=MN0107971 it's definitely Bb Mixolydian; Bb key signature, with Ab accidentals. --Jwshea (talk) 13:55, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: This actually suggests the opposite, namely that there are some V7/IV chords, but mostly in B-flat major. Otherwise it would make better sense to use a three-flat signature. Of course it is the music itself that matters, not the manner of its notation.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 17:24, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Questioning example of Mixolydian mode. 

message: I was recently analyzing music from the video game Rayman. The song I'm thinking of in particular is the "Band Land theme", particularly the first section.
The flute melody begins on an A while the strings in the background play an A chord. It goes to a G chord in the second measure and the flatted seventh is most noticable when the melody plays a G when passing to the next measure. The whole progression for the first four bars is this:
 A -  G  - Bm - F♯m
 I - VII - ii - vi
The fact that the melody began on an A, that the first chord is an A major chord, and the total absence of G♯ in this section led me to conclude that this part is in Mixolydian. However, someone pointed out to me that it's possible that the second chord was simply lowered (which is totally valid, but somewhat inconvenient in my opinion). Additionally, there is a section that does have chord with G♯ (but I suppose they simply changed modes for that section).
In any case, I feel that the list on the page does not represent all media in which the mode may appear; the Phrygian mode page provides video game examples which this page does not. If this truly is a valid example, I'd like to add this (unless there's a more recognized game out there that utilizes this mode).—Iggy Koopa (talk) 16:28, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is this a valid example? 

message: I plan on deleting any unsourced entries from this in a few weeks. (Listening to a piece and trying to figure out the key is not a source, and is also WP:OR.) Torc2 (talk) 08:29, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Good question. But I think I've been encountering this on Wikipedia since about 2005. A couple of mentally challenged souls have been abusing "OR" discussion for doing their mass-deletion of, as you say, other people's contributions. To put it bluntly, "OR" disputes will kill Wikipedia one day. Because some morons delete large parts, others do not accept that and fight back (well, they have my support!) and quicker than you guys can say Jack Robinson, we're at war. Read my lips. -andy 77.7.117.238 (talk) 16:51, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

text: "I may not have a music PhD but I know my modes and I know all that I wrote was accurate." it doesn't matter whether you know that it was accurate. the fact is that it was original research, which is not allowed. WP:NOR   — Chris Capoccia  T⁄C 23:46, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

text: I disagree with the song list.  Just picking them out on piano, both Norweigan Wood and and Dark Star are clearly DORIAN, not Mixolydian. They use the scale (D-E-F-G-A-B-C) Using D as the tonic for these, you play the F as a natural not F#.  Old Joe Clark, on the other hand is an authentic Mixolydian piece (D- E -F#- G - A - B- C).
Besides, one can almost instantly tell just by the sound of the pieces.  Dorian is a minor mode (Tonic Chord is minor) while Mixolydian is Major.  Hence, OLd Joe Clark has a brighter, more major feel than Dark Star or Norwiegan Wood (which both have a minor feel).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.89.66.158 (talk) 14:45, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: "The threshold for inclusion on Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth". Since every song in that list has a reference source, I suggest you find other sources, equally or more reliable than the ones cited, that support your opinion, and add them together with a suitable note. Your opinion and mine count for nothing on Wikipedia.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 17:54, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Diff The reference for "Dear Prudence" calls it pentatonic, with "a mixolydian feel." "Within You and Without You" is not even mentioned in the reference. "Norwegian Wood" opens in dorian, and may modulate. It is not unambiguously in mixolydian, and so is not a good example of it. __ Just plain Bill (talk) 17:22, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

text: The lists included with every key and mode as a whole were atrocious, full of mistakes, and generally unnecessary.  It's easy enough to find a few sourced examples of songs in a given key or mode, and that's all that's required to provide an idea of its character.  A comprehensive list of songs in A major or Mixolydian mode is about as useful as a list of paintings that used the color blue or Impasto technique.   And no, the key or mode of a song isn't always "a simple point of fact"; the tonality can be weakly established or ambiguous, as it was with much late Romantic music and a lot of popular music.  It's not a simple as figuring out what notes or chords are used.  A song that contains the notes A-B-C-D-E-F-G and has the chords C, D, G, Em and Am could conceivably be in A minor, C major, D dorian, etc. -- it depends on the context, the harmonic resolution and melodic moveement, and is frequently debatable.  And a lot of times, the full scale isn't even used -- the seventh or fourth is absent, so the tonality is even more ambiguous.  The fact that there were so many mistakes disproves that the mode of a song is "a simple point of fact", and illustrates the need for authoratative, peer-reviewed published sources.  Otherwise we have nothing to filter good information from bad.  The list ends up reflecting little more than heresay and speculation, and the article ceases to be reliable. —Torc. (Talk.) 00:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Well-known music in this key

message: Don Henley's 1985 synth-pop hit "All She Wants To Do Is Dance" is in D-Mixolydian or isn't it? G Bm C D all throughout the song:) -andy 77.7.117.238 (talk) 16:45, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  I think I found another one... 

message: Why, what, where, and how does this article need additional citations for verification? Hyacinth (talk) 12:53, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks thoroughly referenced to me (even if the quality of some of those references may not be unimpeachable). That banner must be badly out of date.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 23:47, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

text: Tag removed. Hyacinth (talk) 02:28, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Additional citations

message: The entry in the list Mixolydian mode#Notable songs in Mixolydian mode "She Moves Through the Fair" is tagged with Template:Failed verification, followed by the hidden text explaining: "The word "mixolydian" is not found anywhere in the entire book." The page cited does however, give the chords of the song, and they would be in Mixolydian, making this lie somewhere between "properly" referenced and the "you can just tell [the truth is the truth]" examples. Hyacinth (talk) 02:23, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: "She Moved Through the Fair"

message: Hi there,
as a musicologist I am a little uncomfortable with the piano key comparison, since no greek mode can ever be equivalent to "the white keys on a piano" since the scale system is completely different and I think that comparisonsof that sort should be used with great care if used at all. I know that for especially late renaissance or early baroque understanding this might be true (even though a meantone temperamented organ would still be radically different from a piano - even in number of keys). I think a comment should be added to such a comparison that this is a modern simplification and a great distortion of the actual sounds involved. Since I think this should be changed in all mode-related articles,I did not change it in this specific article, but maybe we can find a guideline to avoid confusion alltogether.46.196.113.47 (talk) 08:04, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: As one musicologist to another, you are of course correct to the extent that a precise correspondence does not exist, and I have modified the sentence to emphasize this fact. However, to say that the ancient Greek scale system is "completely different" from that of the piano is simply not the case, so long as we are speaking solely of the diatonic genus. For one thing, the piano can be tuned in any number of different ways, including the various shadings of the ancient Greek system (in fact, it could even be tuned in the chromatic or enharmonic genera), though of course this is not customary. What really is needed here, I think, is a pair of examples illustrating the chromatic and enharmonic forms of the Mixolydian octave (like the ones given for the Dorian mode article, for example), which should be sufficient to dispel the idea that the ancient Greeks played the piano! To go into the refinements of the many ancient tuning systems (and whether or not Aristoxenos may have been thinking in terms of equal temperament) I think would be far beyond the scope of the present article, where this section on Greek music serves the function mainly of explaining where the name came from, and the rudimentary music-theoretical elements that evolved into the medieval modal system.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 20:07, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I have now added an example of the enharmonic genus, which should at least demonstrate the distance of the Greek system from the medieval/modern ones. Now only an example of the chromatic genus is needed, I think.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 00:05, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Chromatic genus now added, and the enharmonic illustration has been improved.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 06:05, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Piano Key Comparison 

message: "More Than a Feeling" is listed as being in mixolydian, however the source does not mention "mixolydian". Hyacinth (talk) 20:07, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I've just checked and you are right. I might have tagged it as "failed verification", but it is in fact improper synthesis, since it requires the reader not only to be able to read guitar tab, but also to judge where the tonal centre is. Do you think a brief hidden-text editorial note explaining why this is so ought to be placed with the tag?—Jerome Kohl (talk) 21:33, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Synthesis

message: I just would like to mention that the octave species used in Byzantine chant is the octave C—c, so it has f sharp, when it is transposed on G—g. For further references don't hesitate to ask me. Platonykiss (talk) 22:16, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Byzantine synthesis is missing 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Mixolydian mode. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Attempted to fix sourcing for http://blog.fretlight.com/2009/10/14/the-moods-of-the-modes.aspx
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
Cheers. —cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 17:58, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Mixolydian mode. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20160203111308/http://books.google.com/books?id=pUycX%E2%80%93MTVHQC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_summary_r&cad=0 to http://books.google.com/books?id=pUycX–MTVHQC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_summary_r&cad=0#PRA2–PA22–IA2,M1
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 23:39, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Substituted at 00:14, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Mixolydian mode. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160303174840/http://archive.mandolinsessions.com/feb07/Anthony.html to http://archive.mandolinsessions.com/feb07/Anthony.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 20:53, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Mixolydian mode. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160304000530/http://mandolinsessions.com/?p=460 to http://www.mandolinsessions.com/?p=460
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 00:08, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018)