Talk:Haplogroup X (mtDNA)

message: Could it be that the group moved from America to Europe rather than the other way around? It is most commonly found there...
Meznaric (talk) 12:26, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: No, the highest diversity is in Near East, specially in Druzes. --Maulucioni (talk) 20:29, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: X Haplogroup might have come from America

message: I've pulled this paragraph:
:Nevertheless, Derenko's study asserts that the recent European admixture cannot explain the presence of haplogroup X in the Altaians. Hence, these study allow us to suggest that haplogroup X was the part of the ancestral gene pool for Altaian populations, being found both in northern and southern Altaians. As shown by computer analysis, this DNA sequence is not a late European admixture. Rather, the Altai variant X is ancient and can be close to the ancestral form of the variants of contemporary Europeans and Amerinds. The mtDNA studies have shown that both northern and southern Altaians exhibit all four Asian and American Indian–specific haplogroups (A–D). Therefore, they may represent the populations which are most closely related to New World indigenous groups. The candidate source population for American Indian mtDNA haplotypes therefore may include the populations originating in the regions to the southwest and southeast of Lake Baikal, including the Altay Mountain region. The presence of X mtDNAs in Altaians is generally consonant with the latter conclusion.
Derenko's 2001 conclusions were drawn from tests for key markers on the Altay samples; it is essentially superseded by Reidla's 2003 work, based on much more extensive sequencing of samples from all known Haplogroup X populations.  It confirms that the Altaian Hg X samples, given the subclade X3e, have a different ancesty to the most commonly found subclades in Europe.  Rather, subclade X3e is particularly associated with the South Caucausus, where it is estimated to have arisen in about 10,000 BC.  But the detailed similarity of the Altaian sequences suggest that they share a common ancestor much later than this, very unlikely to have been earlier than 4,700 BC.  In contrast, subclade X2a is estimated to have been separately developing in North America, isolated from all the other subclades, since 16,000 BC; and it is as different to X2e as it is to any other subclades.
The ancestors of the X2a subclade might have passed through Altaia on their journey to North America.  But the modern-day X2e samples are essentially irrelevant to this question - they have nothing to say about it, neither one way nor the other.  Jheald 10:48, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Altaia 

message: I thought Haplogroup X originated in the Middle East, not Asia? 67.83.173.186 20:06, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin of Haplogroup X 

message: After reading the article I was confused by the stated percentages and "origins" of Haplogroup X. It's stated that certain populations of Algonquins in North America display a 25% presence of this genetic marker while only 2% of Europe's population displays it. Seeing that Europe has a much larger population and documented history of Paleolithic interaction throughout the European Continent, why has the X gene lost prominence?. Shouldn't there be at least a 20% presence of X within the European population in general? Also, since there is no conclusive evidence that Solutreans contained this genetic marker how can it be assumed that they even had the X gene?--208.54.15.161 19:17, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please read the entries: founder effect and genetic drift. They are self-explainatory (I hope). --Sugaar (talk) 11:44, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why is X stronger in North American populations than in Europe? 

message: according to the article linked, 
:"if we assume that the two complete Native American X sequences (from one Navajo and one Ojibwa) began to diverge while their common ancestor was already in the Americas, we obtain a coalescence time of 18,000 ± 6,800 YBP, implying an arrival time not later than 11,000 YBP."
this leaves open the question whether the ancestor of X2a reached America together with the main migration across the Bering straight, or at a later date around the LGM. dab (𒁳) 11:36, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: X2a

message: Someone dropped in South America in 2006 and it's been left there. It appears to be wrong:
AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY 000:000–000 (2005)
Is Haplogroup X Present in Extant South American Indians?
Claudia L. Dornelles,1,2 Sandro L. Bonatto,2 Loreta B. de Freitas,1 and Francisco M. Salzano1*
ABSTRACT A total of 1,159 mitochondrial DNA samples from two Mongolian, two Siberian, and 25 South Native American populations was surveyed for the presence of the C16278T mutation, frequently found in haplogroup X. Material from 25 carriers of that mutation was then sequenced for the hypervariable segment I (HVS-I) control region, and those that still were not classifiable in classical Amerindian haplogroups were further studied. The tests involved all the control region, as well as the presence of characteristic mutations in seven coding fragments, totalling 5,760 base pairs. The results indicate that haplogroup X is not present in these samples.dougweller (talk) 19:28, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  South America 

message: Since I'm not a genetic scientist I just wanted to ask for some clarification on how DNA is carried on for future generations. 
In the Solutrean Hypothesis, it argues that the Haplogroup X (mtDNA) marker may have been contributed by a population of Solutreans who intermixed with Asian travelers into North America. If this intermixing did happen, wouldn't MORE DNA markers from the Paleo-European population be found in the modern day North/South American populations with genetic heritage from ancient Amerinds? Or is it safe to argue that over time, European genetic markers like I, J, K, T, W, etc got "washed-out" over time? Is the argument that a number of Solutreans intermixed with a number of Amerinds or just one Solutrean male did the job and founded the legacy that is X found in both North and South America? --71.189.120.175 (talk) 19:18, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know the answer to most of your questions, but it definitely was not 'one European male', because mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) only comes from one's mother.Tlhslobus (talk) 07:47, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re: Haplogroup X being introduced by Solutreans 

message: I apologise in advance, since this is trivial / popular-culture stuff... but I had to nitpick the Sykes section. As Sykes told the fictional / speculative account of "Xenia" he implied that one daughter went to Europe and the other to America. (Of course Sykes is not a Solutrean.) That means Xenia is X2. He did that either because he was not aware of X1 or else, knowing, understood that X1 was not among European ancestors and so doesn't count. --Zimriel (talk) 20:51, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sykes' "Xenia" 

message: William Penn might have been onto something when he speculated that the Lenape of the Philadelphia area were remnants of the Ten Lost Tribes, although he might not have been accurate. If X haplotype is most diverse among peoples of the Near East, and if it shows up among Algonquins, which the Lenape are, then something might have happened. He described the Lenape as having something more of a European appearance than an Asian appearance, although they had dark skin, their noses and faces were more of a European appearance.
The geographical distribution of the X haplotype suggests that it might have come over the north Atlantic with the Vikings and begun spreading among Native Americans when "skraelings" intermixed with the Northmen. I wonder if Jews or Arabs or traders might have sailed with those Vikings...
Of course, the Phoenicians might have beaten the Vikings to the punch. They sailed around Africa, after all, and so someone might have fled the Punic Wars. But that is, also, speculation. 
Unfortunately, another problem is that this doesn't seem to be reflected in Algonquin/ Lenape language. (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong; I'm no linguistic expert.) Shouldn't there be some sort of Viking/Punic /other Semitic remnants in the Lenape/Algonquin languages, if Vikings or Phoenicians (or Jews or Arabs) settled among the skraelings? If so, where are they? 198.151.130.45 (talk) 15:59, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Unless you have a different interpretation of the Scientific Evidence and don't thin the world is even 11,000 years old.--JaredMithrandir (talk) 10:02, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  At the risk of going off into Pseudoscience Land 

message: Two considerations occur which run contrary to considering the haplogroup X distribution map as indicative of Minoan presence in the Great Lakes 3 to 5 thousand years ago:
1) As noted in the article, Native Americans almost exclusively have the X2a variant, which is almost unknown in the eastern hemisphere, including the Minoan trading region. X2a appears to have branched away from other X2 variants between 11,000 and 25,000 years ago, well before any evidence of extensive Lake Superior copper mining. Refer to Ref 13 in the article (Reidla et al, 2003).
2) X Haplogroups are from mitochondrial DNA and transmitted via the maternal lineage. A naïve expectation would be that any putative Minoan copper miners would have been mostly male. Therefore, a map of Y-chromosomal variance distributions would better address this issue, probably in some other Wiki article.
Note that the article at upublish.info, The Enigmas of Maternal Haplogroup X by Robert Henvell (8/2013) speaks of a newly discovered (@2009) X2 variant (X2j) from North Africa, which shares a mutation with X2a. However making a derivative connection between the 2 would be highly speculative at this point.
Jwilsonjwilson (talk) 08:13, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minoan copper miners revisited 

message: See  Doug Weller talk 15:35, 10 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comments by the authors of "Does Mitochondrial Haplogroup X Indicate Ancient Trans-Atlantic Migration to the Americas?" 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: Which one is later? --Yomal Sidoroff-Biarmskii (talk) 18:25, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: "Origin and diffusion of mtDNA haplogroup X" which is dated 2003, the one just before it is dated 2001. Doug Weller talk 18:28, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  I kept it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_X_(mtDNA)#cite_note-Reidla-10 --Yomal Sidoroff-Biarmskii (talk) 18:31, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually I think the main thing is to keep it chronological, and we might want to use more of the Raff article. We should say something in the lead about it also, the lead is much too short. Doug Weller talk 18:39, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  Agree. --Yomal Sidoroff-Biarmskii (talk) 12:18, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks. But I'm drafting an ArbCom case and may not have time to work on this. Doug Weller talk 16:42, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Obsolete.