Talk:Che Guevara/Archive 6

message: If you don't like it, improve it, don't revert it! 
--71.141.100.105 08:33, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  What's wrong with the new crit. intro? 

message: I was wondering if perhaps others agree that the USA Today article that is linked to in this article is useless:  It's not so much that I disagree or agree with the statements made (though I do agree and disagree with some statements), it's just that overall this seems to be a terribly written article. I know that goes without saying, as it is USA Today. But what I was wondering was if perhaps better quality articles could be linked to with regard to criticism of Che. I'm sure some of his critics have more substantial statements to make than what is mentioned in this article. I mean, the article seems to say that we should be thankful Che wasn't successful or else we wouldn't have iPods, and that if he had been successful than we'd all be raising donkeys. The tone of the article seems to me to be juvenile. Thanks. -- Andrew Parodi 09:33, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The "Criticism" sub-section was contributed by some wikipedians who argued that the "Legacy" section of the article suffered from POV and that it was necessary that an "anti-Che" POV be presented to balance it. A consensus eventually developed that such "balance" was needed and the "Criticism" sub-section is the result. I believe that the particular editor who wrote the sentence including the reference to the USA Today article that you cite will be unable to respond to you because she has recently been permanently blocked from editing Wikipedia.  I do not know whether some of the other people who collaborated with her in putting together that particular sub-section are still monitoring it and will wish to dialogue with you about the point you make (with which I personally tend to agree).  While you are awaiting replies, my suggestion would be that, if you can find a better source than the USA Today article that says approximately the same thing, please bring it forward here on the Talk page so that others can see, evaluate and comment on the possibility of substituting it. -- Polaris999 14:17, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The USA Today article

message: The Municipality of Rosario has just put up a sign indicating the location of Guevara's house (previously there wasn't any indication, then the current owners refused to let a plaque be placed directly on the house). I took a picture. The Municipality also sponsored a celebration of Guevara's 78th birthday with the presence of friends and the Cuban Ambassador (see poster). Just in case this is useful. —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 19:27, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Many thanks for bringing this to our attention. That is a very cool sign. I am going to try to figure out how to insert a link to it from somewhere within the main CG article. -- Polaris999 21:24, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Che Guevara's house (again) 

message: Why can't I see the timeline? It's just a line for me. If I open directly the template, I see the same. NCurse work 07:54, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That is very puzzling.  Can you see other Wikipedia timelines? -- Polaris999 08:08, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Yes, it is. I can see the others. Can't understand why... :) NCurse work 08:50, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I made a minor modification to the template.  If you have a chance to try viewing the timeline again, I would appreciate very much hearing the results.  Thank you -- Polaris999 09:14, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Great! Now it works. Thank you. :) NCurse work 09:36, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That is good news.  Many thanks to you, NCurse work, for bringing this problem to our attention! --Polaris999 16:59, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Timeline 

message: I'm a lifelong hiker and outdoorsman, and I've never heard this expression, to travel "rough".  Is this British usage?
Esbullin
:I do not know in which country the usage originated, but I assume it is derived from the idiom "to rough it".  The following is from The Free Dictionary
::"Idiom: 
:::rough it
:::To live without the usual comforts and conveniences: roughed it in a small hunting shack."
:-- Polaris999 18:20, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Expression "Rough" 

message: We need documentation on the statement attributed in this article to Guevara that had the nuclear missiles of the Cuban Missile Crisis been under Cuban rather than Soviet control, they (presumably meaning he and Castro) would have fired them against major US cities. No other aspect of this man's life is as important. If it is accurate, and he seriously favored the direct murder of millions in an act that would certainly have triggered all-out nuclear holocaust and the death of billions and a collapse of civilization, it is safe to say that history will eventually see him for what he must have been: a dangerous, malevolent lunatic. If it is not accurate, the debate will go on... I will be trying to ferret out sources on this, but my time and energy is severely limited due to illness. I urge others to find reliable references and link to or quote from them on this Talk page so we can craft a definitive paragraph on this point for the article. Thx. JDG 14:35, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How is Jon Lee Anderson quoting the Daily Worker less than adequate documentation? - Jmabel | Talk 16:53, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Single most important addition to this article 

message: The following sentence appears in the Bolivia section: "In September, however, the Army managed to eliminate two guerrilla groups, reportedly killing one of the leaders". It isn't very clear what this means or how relevant it is. Who were these groups? Twittenham 16:23, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello Twittenham.  I have been waiting for some other editor to reply to your query but many of them are away from wikipedia now that summer has arrived.  I just want to tell you that I think that your point is very well taken and that I will address it soon if no one else does. -- Polaris999 14:43, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sentence with poor context

message: This article is 80 kilobytes long.  Some parts could probably be trimmed off and placed in seperate parts.  64.111.128.11 23:47, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Size

message: Isn't there a stadium named after Guevara?
"Che Stadium"?
72.82.195.2 01:32, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hola, in New York City, NY US there is Che Stadium.--Dakota ~ 19:18, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ouch... RadioKirk (u|t|c) 20:50, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

text: This link is for those not from the U.S. who may not have gotten the joke. -- Jmabel | Talk 16:56, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Che Stadium

message: At least, from my vantage point.
That's what this article seems like to me. 
Do you think it would be possible to either substantially expand the criticism portion, or-at the very least-move it further up in the article?
72.68.171.50 23:26, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you have more information to include, you're welcome to do so. I don't see it as a puff piece, so I think the topical order is fine as it stands. —Down10 TACO 07:23, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Hagiography

message: "Cuba's labor camp system was eventually used to jail "gays, dissidents, and AIDS victims.""
Its quite certain than Guevara himself didn't jail any AIDS victim.... Ericd 18:54, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly as you say, he most certainly did not. He also did not send any "dissidents, gays, or religious believers" there. The text in the "Criticism" section needs to be revised to make this clear -- would you perhaps be interested in undertaking this? (As you have probably seen elsewhere on this page, I have already dialogued at length about this matter, but it seems my point has not gotten through so I have given up trying to explain it.) -- Polaris999 13:09, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: AIDS

message: :I think that makes it clear, doesn't it? "Al expresado niño se le ha puesto el nombre de Ernesto" (no middle name). BTW, and just in case: a Wikipedia article cannot serve as the source/reference for another Wikipedia article. You can take info from one WP to another, or between articles in the same WP, but that information can only be as good as its original sources. Ideally, every fact that is not widely known and uncontroversial should be sourced. —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 19:11, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I certainly do hope that it makes it clear and puts an end to the confusion once and for all.  I am appending below a transcription to help people read the relevant section of the document more easily ... Polaris999 19:57, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "Sala Nº3 En esta sala, la cual fuera su dormitorio, se pueden observar fotografías y documentos relacionados con los primeros años de vida de Ernesto, tales como el Acta de Nacimiento de Rosario, el 14 de junio de 1928, fotografías de su paso por Misiones, o documentación autenticada de las escuelas a las que asistió."
And here is one additional piece of confirmatory evidence — the name that the Cuban Consejo de Estado inscribed on his coffin (which rests in the Che Guevara Mausoleum in Santa Clara) is Ernesto Guevara de la Serna, viz:Coffin of Che Guevara
Polaris999 19:59, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Acta de Nacimiento de Ernesto Guevara de la Serna (Birth Certificate)