Talk:Jessica Dubroff

message: who is jessica dubroff — Preceding unsigned comment added by  207.69.136.198 (talk)  14:36, September 18, 2004
: Maybe you could read the article this is attached to?--211.29.198.148 05:27, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question 

message: Jessica was a passenger, not a pilot, as she was uncertified and under age to be pilot in command, and the legal pilot in command for the flight was the instructor. Also she was not manipulating the controls during the accident flight, according to the NTSB report. So had the flight been successfully completed, she would not have broken any piloting record, and we have no reliable source telling us otherwise. Crum375 17:50, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Jessica as pilot or future record holder

message: I added the fact tag to this line: "The accident, and its associated publicity, led to Federal legislation that prohibits anyone who does not hold at least a private pilot certificate and a current medical certificate from being allowed to manipulate the controls of an aircraft during any record attempt, aeronautical competition, or aeronautical feat." I have heard this too, but have been unable to verify this, and unless someone else can, it should be removed. Dhaluza 09:50, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I fixed it up a little by moving the refs from the EL section to inline. Crum375 11:04, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, missed that. The other inline refs should be moved around a bit, though. Dhaluza 11:06, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Feel free to move the refs. We also need to find the 'rain' quote ref - the news archives all require payment unfortunately. Crum375 11:09, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fact tag 

message: Jessica Dubroff, the precocious 7-year-old who died Thursday while trying to set a new cross-country flying record, was growing up in a family that only recently emerged from serious financial hardship.
[removed copy-vio]
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/examiner/article.cgi?year=1996&month=04&day=14&article=NEWS15677.dtl#ixzz0jzJ3JSyg--99.177.250.140 (talk) 23:20, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Please be careful about copyright violation. Crum375 (talk) 23:46, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  I'm going to add this to the article tomorrow 

message: Since the Infobox/aviator is used in this article, it might be good to include the entry for f-flights= and reference "Sea to Shining Sea" flight. § Music Sorter § (talk) 16:19, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox - Add Famous Flight 

message: (Crum375, you made me think about a number of situations that I had previously not considered an alternate position. For that I thank you. I bring this up here simply to help me understand if I should stop making this edit to articles in which I find this situation. If it is a matter of style and not grammar, I do not want to force my will on other editors. I sincerely hope this does not come across as offensive or combative. Please let me know if that is the case. Also if I have misrepresented your position below feel free to make any necessary additions or changes.)
As Crum375 and I went through the GAR process, we agreed to disagree on one particular point: whether to make a change on comma usage when a city and state name are used in sequence. We agreed that it was not critical for the GAR and we decided to leave it for the FAR. The question was whether you need to surround the state name with a comma on either side when it follows a city name and additional text follows the state name as in "We went to San Francisco, California, this summer." Note that if the state name ends the sentence or there is no city name immediately before the state name, this rule does not apply.
Crum375 believed it was a question of style that was up to the author and I believed it was an English grammar rule. We both agreed that if either of us was in the minority of a consensus we would heed to the other side. Crum375 believed that the short nature of the text following the state name in the above example did not require the second comma after the state. It was only a question of style. He did acknowledge that if the text following the state name was longer and possibly more complex, then a comma after the state name would be warranted to help clarify the meaning, but it was still not required as a rule.
Crum375 and I covered a number of points in the GAR which can be seen above on this talk page. Something I did not bring up with Crum375 in our conversation was the sources referenced in the article seem to always follow the inclusion of the second comma (when the state name immediately follows the city name), but that could still be a question of style from all these authors I suppose.
* Ref #1 At 0801:21, the pilot in command contacted the Casper AFSS6 via telephone and requested a weather briefing for a VFR flight from Cheyenne to Lincoln, Nebraska, the first scheduled fuel stop of the day’s intended flights.
* Ref #1 She said he had flown twice to Oshkosh, Wisconsin, and once to Sedona, Arizona.
* Ref #1 In addition, his flight log showed that on April 8, he piloted a 4-hour flight conducted from Half Moon Bay to San Carlos, California, and return.
* Ref #1 On Wednesday April 10, the airplane departed Half Moon Bay at 0700 PDT, and landed at Elko, Nevada, approximately 1020 PDT and was refueled. At Elko, the pilot in command closed the flight plan from Half Moon Bay, filed a new one to Rock Springs, Wyoming, and received a weather briefing for the Rock Springs flight.
* Ref #1 This example shows that with a state name only, no comma is used, unless required for some other grammatical reason. The NWS26 0900 surface analysis chart showed a weak, quasistationary front extending from western Montana southeastward through southeastern Wyoming becoming a moderate cold front over extreme northeastern Colorado.
* Ref #2 She was to fly east in three legs, laying over in Cheyenne, Wyoming, and Fort Wayne, Indiana, before finally reaching Falmouth, Massachusetts, the town where she was born.
* Ref #4 Jessica, her entrepreneur father, Lloyd, and instructor Joe Reid were killed instantly when their single-engine Cessna Cardinal 177B plummeted into a residential neighborhood in Cheyenne, Wyo., shortly after takeoff."
* Further Reading #1 Three years ago, Jessica, then 4, was a squatter with her mother, Lisa Blair Hathaway, in an abandoned house in Falmouth, Mass., according to police there, and the family was getting handouts from a local health food store.
* Further Reading #1 While Jessica was mostly raised in Massachusetts, she lived in Pescadero, California, a tiny onetime fishing village where old dogs lazily patrol the streets because there is no traffic.
§ Music Sorter § (talk) 06:48, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comma usage when a state name follows a city name; Style or Grammar question 

message: Crum375, I noted that recently you reverted some edits by an unidentified editor as WP:V, WP:NOR, and WP:SOURCES. When I reviewed those sections I noticed something on which I wanted to understand your perspective. Take a look at WP:BURDEN. I found the following quote related to what was happening here in the revert of changes to the Infobox.
:"Any material lacking a reliable source directly supporting it may be removed, but how quickly this should happen depends on the material and the overall state of the article. Editors might object if you remove material without giving them time to provide references. It has always been good practice to make reasonable efforts to find sources yourself that support such material, and cite them. Do not leave unsourced or poorly sourced material in an article if it might damage the reputation of living persons or organizations, and do not move it to the talk page.[2]"
I assume you would not revert the changes if the editor included citations. Although I am not sure why the parents names was reverted. I doubt anyone would dispute the names of the parents since you listed them in the article and showed citations already. The infobox is listing many items that are in the article, but there are no source citations. I see this SF, CA newspaper covers the facts on the burial. http://articles.sfgate.com/keyword/jessica-dubroff Now the occupation and ethnicity may be more difficult to find sources specifically stating those facts, so maybe those should stay out unless sourced. § Music Sorter § (talk) 06:50, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I am not personally keen on most of these additional parameters, but would not object if someone added them with an appropriate inline reliable source. I think the ethnicity should not be included even if there is a source for it, unless it explains why it is relevant to her notability (e.g. discrimination issue). And "occupation=adventurer" for a seven-year-old child would require an exceptional source in my view, per WP:REDFLAG, since there are millions of kids flying around the world every year without being called "adventurers", nor having an "occupation" of any kind. Being in an accident doesn't change that. Crum375 (talk) 11:29, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Crum375, I agree with all your comments. I noticed your friend added the items back in without adding any citations even after I listed them here. The IP address has only existed for 5 days. Since they have not signed in maybe they do not understand some of the deeper philosophies of Wikipedia. I hesitate to edit this article directly since I worked with you on the GA status and do not want to be called on a possible conflict of interest in retrospect. § Music Sorter § (talk) 03:40, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I understand your position and agree that, except for possible clear vandalism reversion, your direct editing could be perceived as problematic. I have reverted the unsourced additions, and hope that the IP will get the message. Crum375 (talk) 02:44, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unsourced material removal 

message: Could the person that removed the image bring their concern here please? Please state which specific fair use criteria the image doesn't match. Thanks. Dawnseeker2000  03:38, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jessica Dubroff.jpg 

message: I know the intent of the picture is for showing the dual flight controls present in most airplanes, but it this picture also shows two Garmin 1000 primary fight displays which didn't exist at the time of the accident and the airplane itself is of a Cessna T182T which wasn't available until 2001. Driftwood87 (talk) 02:50, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  'Dual flight control' picture 

message: This biographical article of an unnotable individual seems to digress to be about a notable event. Perhaps it should be moved. Any suggestions as to whet we could rename it? --Ohconfucius ¡digame! 02:09, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[WP:ONEEVENT]]