Talk:Mahalo

message: This page should either be deleted or changed. It provides two inconsistent etymologies. The latter of which is almost certainly not true. The "they didn't have a word for gratitude" story (similar to the one told about the Japanese) is racist and stunningly stupid. Is it conceivable that an entire race of people would not have a word for one of the most basic human emotions? This needs to be changed immediately.   —Preceding unsigned comment added by JohnDavidBurgess (talk • contribs) 03:24, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Certainly the article could be improved. But if you read Hawaiian history, you will find many reliable visitors who say that though the Hawaiians were extremely gracious, hospitable, and grateful, they did not have the term "thank you." For example, The Hawaiian Journal of John B. Whitman: An Account of the Sandwich Islands 1813-1815, Isabella Bird's Six Months in the Sandwich Islands (1873) and Archibald Campbell's account of his time here, A voyage round the world, from 1806 to 1812 : in which Japan, Kamschatka, the Aleutian Islands, and the Sandwich Islands were visited; including a narrative of the author's shipwreck on the Island of Sannack, and his subsequent wreck in the ship's long-boat : with an account of the present state of the Sandwich Islands, and a vocabulary of their language.Makana Chai (talk) 06:58, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

text: Nor are the etymologies inconsistent. It is possible that post-contact, the Hawaiians adopted/adapted masalo.Makana Chai (talk) 07:01, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The wording in the description of the two etymologies does seem inconsistent. The first etymology references that Elbert and Pukui trace the word to PPN masalo. But the second etymology declares that the word is, in fact, one developed post-contact. If this is the case, a transition word might work better, such as 'however.' I have difficulty believing that Hawaiians adopted/adapted masalo from another Polynesian language after contact with Europeans. I'm not aware of any other genuine Polynesian words being introduced into the language in this manner.   —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zzsnow3ater (talk • contribs) 09:02, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Why don't you do some research to find out what is right? Makana Chai (talk) 16:42, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Good idea. I will do that. In the mean time, I will clear up the wording to show that there are two contrasting etymologies. I have done a short review of earlier writings from the 1830s and Andrew's later dictionary. Currently, I believe that the word mahalo was indeed an existing word in the Hawaiian language. Perhaps the original meaning meant 'admire,' and it was used to mean 'thank you' post contact. Both 'thank' and 'admire' are listed under the word mahalo in the Elbert and Pukui dictionary, while only 'admire' is in Alexander's. The writings from the 1830s seem to reflect this usage as well. --Zzsnow3ater (talk) 07:55, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

text: After reading over the entries in both Elbert and Pukui's Hawaiian Dictionary and Alexander's dictionary, newspapers from 1830, and the current sources cited in the article suggesting that Hawaiian had no word for 'thanks' or 'gratitude,' I believe that nothing shows that the word mahalo itself is not an original Hawaiian word. Elbert and Pukui traced it back to PEP masalo (interestingly, the first definition is traced to PPN and the second to PEP at the date of the writing). Both Elbert and Pukui's dictionary and Alexander's includes the word mahalo. The only difference is that in the Alexander's, the word is used to mean 'admire,' while in Elbert and Pukui's, it is used to mean 'admire' and 'thanks.' It would be reasonable to assume that the word did indeed exist but took on an extra meaning of 'thanks' or 'gratitude' post contact, as Alexander and early visitors claimed there was none. --Zzsnow3ater (talk) 07:49, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point. Do you read 'olelo Hawai'i? It would be great if this could be tracked somehow through the newspapers. Another thought -- there is at least one turn of the century dictionary (Parker) and maybe some others. It would be interesting to see how mahalo fares in them. I think Judd had his own dictionary. Also, Pukui has "vocabulary cards" in the Bishop Museum Archives, with some words and meanings that didn't make it into the dictionary. I can't check it out, but it would be wonderful if someone else could. And then write an article for Hawaiian Journal of History so we can cite it :-) Makana Chai (talk) 18:31, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Delete or change

message: Expand this article:
Aloha & Mahalo
Pronounced: ah loh' hah & mah hah' loh
If you learn just two words in Hawaiian, learn these. They are two of the most important words in the Hawaiian language, representing paramount Hawaiian values.
In Hawaiian thinking, words have mana [pronounced: mah' nah], meaning spiritual or divine power, and aloha and mahalo are among the most sacred and powerful.
Say them often as they can be life-transforming and -enhancing. Be careful to use them ONLY if you truly feel mahalo or aloha within. Do not exploit these words for personal gain, and neither cheapen, nor trivialize their use by verbalizing them carelessly or without sincerity.
Aloha and mahalo are ineffable, indescribable, and undefinable with words alone; to be understood, they must be experienced.
Deeper meaning and sacredness is hinted at by the root words of these words. Linguists differ in their opinions as to the exact meanings and origins, but this is what was told to me by my kupuna (elder):
On a spiritual level, aloha is an invocation of the Divine and mahalo is a Divine blessing. Both are acknowledgments of the Divinity that dwells within and without.
Aloha
[Alo = presence, front, face] + [hâ = breath]
"The presence of (Divine) Breath."
Mahalo
[Ma = In] + [hâ = breath] + [alo = presence, front, face]
"(May you be) in (Divine) Breath."
Think of them as single-word blessings or prayers.
The following are dictionary definitions using English words, which are approximate translations, at best:*
	
    Aloha. 1. Aloha, love, affection, compassion, mercy, sympathy, pity, kindness, sentiment, grace, charity; greeting, salutation, regards; sweetheart, lover, lover, loved one; beloved, loving, kind, compassionate, charitable, lovable; to love, be fond of; to show kindness, mercy, pity, charity, affection; to venerate; to remember with affection; to greet, to hail. Greetings! Hello! Good-by! Farewell! Alas! 
              o Aloha `oe!
                [ah loh' hah oe!]
                May you be loved or greeted!
                Farewell or greetings to one person. 
              o Aloha kâua!
                [ah loh' hah KAH'oo (w)ah!]
                May there be friendship or love between us!
                Greetings to you and me!
              o Aloha kâkou!
                [ah loh' hah KAH' kou!]
                same as above, but to more than one person. 
              o Ke aloha nô!
                [ah loh hah NOH']
                Aloha indeed! 
              o Aloha!
                [ Ah loh' hah!]
                Greetings!"
    "Mahalo. 1. Thanks, gratitude; to thank.
              o Mahalo nui loa
                .
                [mah hah' loh noo'(w)ee loh'(w)ah]
                Thanks very much.  
              o `Ôlelo mahalo
                [OH' leh loh mah hah' loh]
                compliment 
              o Mahalo â nui
                [mah hah' loh (W)AH' noo'(w)ee]
                Thanks very much. 
    2. Admiration, praise, esteem, regards, respects; to admire, praise, appreciate. 
              o `O wau nô me ka mahalo,
                [oh vau NOH' meh kah mah hah'loh]
                I am, [yours] respectfully,
              o Ka mea i mahalo `ia, Laki
                [kah meh'(y)ah ee mah hah'loh ee'(y)ah, lah' kee]
                The esteemed Laki."
*Source: Pukui, Mary Kawena & Elbert, Samuel H., HAWAIIAN DICTIONARY, University of Hawai`i Press, Honolulu, 1986.
One of the most frequently requested translations is:
Aloha au iâ `oe.
[ah loh' hah vau' ee (Y)AH' oe]
I love you.
Ke aloha nô me ka mahalo kâua!
Aloha indeed with mahalo to you and me!
The Hawaiian Language: Ka `Ôlelo Hawai`i
URL: http://hawaiianlanguage.com
It appears that this is a special word that does deserve an article, consisting of more than a definition.
-96.233.24.142 (talk) 00:11, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aloha & Mahalo 

message: Mahalo is a fairly ordinary word, so I don't see it as particularly notable. On the other hand, there is a bit to say about it (currently two paragraphs with four sources), so probably it shouldn't really be deleted. Obviously, though, at least the two editors who proposed deletion would disagree with this sentiment.
Could this page be merged somewhere? Hawaiian language is already long-ish and does not include a section on vocabulary. Aloha is a vaguely related word (both are used as polite expressions), but only vaguely. Wiktionary has a wikt:list of Hawaiian words, but there would no doubt be objections to hosting a simple list on Wikipedia. So where could this word go? Or should it just stay where it is? Cnilep (talk) 04:11, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it doesn't. Not sure if it was deleted, or I was just mistaken about its existence. Cnilep (talk) 22:35, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge somewhere?