Talk:Sophie, Duchess of Hohenberg

message: How pregnant was Sophie when she was shot, and what happened to the foetus?
:Considering the technology of the times, it certainly died with her.  But the article disputes whether she was pregnant at all.  I dispute that.  A woman of 46 years, even in 1914, could certainly become pregnant.  Whether it would a stable and viable pregnancy is wide open to dispute.  But the proof would be whether she had passed menopause, which the article assumes, but doesn't support.  --Bill  23:16, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Could somebody provide a source for the claim that she was pregnant when killed? john k 02:45, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A video we watched in history. I'm not sure what it is called - but I doubt an educational video would pass off a myth as a fact. Cheesypot (talk) 16:54, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems to be believed among Sarajevans in 2014 that she was pregnant.  A Guardian article (Friday 27 June 2014, "Villain or hero? Sarajevo is split on archduke's assassin Gavrilo Princip", by Andrew MacDowall) about the naming of park in the city after Princip the assassin quotes interviewed people, at least one of whom castigated Princip as a murderer of a pregnant woman.Cloptonson (talk) 19:29, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The 1982 German-language book "Franz Ferdinand von Osterreich-Este", by Gerd Holler, reprints the report prepared on the autopsies and embalming of the corpses of the Archduke and the Duchess in the first chapter. I've run the relevant passages through Google Translate (a summary can also be found in the 2013 book "The Assassination of the Archduke" by Greg King and Sue Woolmans), and according to this document, while examination of the Archduke's body was strictly limited on orders from Vienna (though, admittedly, the cause of death was pretty obvious - a single bullet fired into Franz Ferdinand's lower right neck just above his collarbone which severed the jugular vein and damaged the trachea), no such limitations were placed on examination of Sophie's body. Her abdomen was opened by the examining doctors, and the cause of death was quickly ascertained. The bullet fired into her abdomen severed the abdominal aorta and right iliac vein before lodging in her pelvis, and she died of massive internal bleeding within minutes (a large quantity of semi-coagulated blood, which caused her internal organs to be displaced, was found in the abdominal cavity). However - and very importantly - the report contains no indication whatsoever that Sophie was pregnant at the time of her death. I personally doubt that she was, even though, being 46, she might not yet have reached menopause at the time she was killed. The most reliable accounts of the life and death of the couple (e.g., the King/Woolmans book, which relies in significant part on newly-discovered letters from Sophie to her sister and is probably the most extensive available account of her life in English, as well as "Archduke of Sarajevo", by the British journalist Gordon Brook-Shepherd) state that, after the stillbirth of what would have been their fourth child (and third son) in 1909, Sophie, who was 40 or 41 at the time, was instructed by her doctors not to risk another pregnancy. The cited authors state that this was a source of great distress to the Archduke, who had been looking forward to having a large family, and Brook-Shepherd theorizes that this may have contributed to what some other authorities have claimed to be a dislike of children on his part, but may instead have been disappointment at not having been able to have more children. 149.101.1.116 (talk) 18:45, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sophie was pregnant 

message: This article says that Gavrilo Princip fired several times into the car, but the wikipedia article on Gavrilo Princip says he only fired twice.
Which is correct ?  
There were 2 shots.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 171.192.0.10 (talk) 15:37, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Two shots is correct. Princip's first shot struck Franz Ferdinand in his lower right neck, severing his jugular vein and damaging his trachea before lodging in the left side of his spine. He intended to shoot General Oskar Potoriek next, but for whatever reason - some say his aim was thrown off by a plainclothes police officer standing nearby who grappled with him, others that he flinched when he saw the Duchess in his line of fire so wasn't watching where he was aiming - he shot the Duchess by accident with his second round. That bullet entered her lower right abdomen, severing her abdominal aorta and right iliac vein, before lodging in her pelvis on the left side; she died within minutes of internal bleeding before their car could reach the Konak. Interestingly, Princip, while never expressing regret over having shot the Archduke, appears to have been wracked with remorse at having unintentionally killed the Duchess. 149.101.1.116 (talk) 18:54, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  number of gun shots