Talk:Exorcism/Archive 1

message: it should be noted that none of the deaths due to exorcism's listed were performed by Catholic priests. Suppafly 01:11, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Exorcism related deaths 

message: This article seems incomplete as it lacks a clear explanation and relies heavily on obscure citations and futile digressions; overall it lacks a critical skeptical analysis.
:The article needn't have a skeptical analysis. This is not an article to force an argument, this is not to enforce a point of view. Skepticism belongs in the article of Skepticism.--NWalterstorf 21:46, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, this doesn't need skeptical viewpoints...go to the forum for that. This is to present exorcisms as something that is TRUE, and not something that is debated. Make a "Skeptics of exorcism" page for that haha. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.253.34.210 (talk) 18:07, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lacks a skeptical viewpoint 

message: I find the section on Jewish exorcisms odd... it mentions "Gehenna (a Hebrew term very loosely translated as "hell", literally the valley outside Jeruselem where the city's garbage and dead bodies were burned. The word later came to mean "the valley of dead")" This seems strange to me, for, IIRC, Judaism forbids cremation. Can anyone shed any more light on this? aubrey 19:26, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jewish Exorcisms 

message: http://www.trosch.org/chu/exorcism.htm Exorcisms in the Catholic Church
I removed this from the list of external links after perusing trosch.org and discovering it is not an authoritative resource for "rites" of exorcism, as the entry seemed to suggest. It appears that trosch.org is intended as a soapbox for its webmaster's personal interpretation of Catholic doctrine -- in fact, it contains such radical (even from the most conservative Catholic perspective) articles as an outright condemnation of Florida for executing a man who "protected innocent children" by killing an abortion doctor. This hardly seems like an appropriate resource for those who wish to learn Catholic doctrine, dogma, or liturgy, and therefore it seemed inappropriate for an encyclopedia to include it as an external reference.
Molinero 03:37, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link Removed 

message: I have removed the following part of this article due to it's obvious biased point of view - this is an encyclopedia, not a religious reference book  ;)
I have maintained the removed portion below to allow other users to edit it in such a way as to remove all POV issues or to allow an editor with a dissenting opinion a chance to return the piece to this article.
--Jim Binford 19:14, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: No, you just want to enforce a view point on the article. This isn't an article arguing a certain viewpoint, this is an objective article; adding a skeptical view would be entirely useless. Also, capitalizing every letter, saying "youngsters", mentioning your own PoV, using multiple exclamation points and not even signing your name to your post greatly reduce your credibility.--NWalterstorf 21:43, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section Removed 

message: I question this subject under Exorcism-related deaths:
"A five-year-old girl in 1997 in the Bronx, New York, died after being administered ammonia, vinegar, and olive oil, and then gagged and bound with duct tape."
How is this exorcism-related?  Unless someone can find additional information that show that this death had to do with an exorcism, I believe this should be removed. --Marco Passarani 08:56, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. It sounds more like some Voodoo trial than anything to do with exorcism. 82.23.202.5 18:13, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Relevance? 

message: Is it possible that many cases which are believed to be demonic possesions are actually cases of Multiple Personality Disorder?  After all, those with MPD may act like animals that growl or jump between a kind personality and an abusive one, or they may learn something such as an old language like Latin in one language and not know how to speak it in the other language.  Pehaps what we have believed to be a spiritual possesion is actually two personalties in one person.
they may learn something such as an old language like Latin in one language and not know how to speak it in the other language
- My brain hurts trying to figure out what you mean by that.  As for your hypothesis, I believe it is addressed by the mention of mental illness being mistaken for demonic possession in the article
yEvb0 02:19, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Multiple Personality Disorder 

message: Text copied from http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article7078.asp was removed and cleared from the edit history. - Evil saltine 19:57, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed copyrighted content 

message: The article on ghost links to here, but this article appears to concern itself solely with exorcisms of people. Aren't places (e.g. haunted houses) exorcised as well? --Shantavira 16:52, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. The one Episcopal Church exorcism I know of was of a house. Mangoe 02:06, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Exorcism of places 

message: The section on Islam and exorcisms is long and confusing, but I know nothing about the subject so am leaving it alone. Maybe a seperate page could be made, and just a paragraph summary left on this main page by someone in the know?Maeve 14:35, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Islam and exorcisms 

message: as a result of the recent template conversion, multiple verse listings no longer work, for example:
only returns Matthew 12:23
compare to:
:I believe i have corrected all of them, if there are any problems you can correct them yourself or connact me on my userpage.  Jon513 14:37, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  recent conversion from [[Template: bibleref]] to [[Template: bibleverse]] 

message: The article needs to address the exorcism built into some baptismal rites. Mangoe 02:14, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Exorcism in ordinary rites 

message: I'm assuming that the people who are editing this and so quoting the bible are Christians, or at least believe in the supernatural. So, I'm sorry, but I take issue with this:
:"But the efficacy of this delegated power was conditional, as we see from the fact that the Apostles themselves were not always successful in their exorcisms: certain kinds of spirits, as Christ explained, could only be cast out by prayer and fasting (Matthew 17:15,17:20; Mark 9:27-28; Luke 9:40)."
In short terms, if naming the name of Christ is not enough for a demon to be cast out, then what on earth is prayer and fasting going to do? We will never come up against anything that the name of Jesus cannot overcome, no matter what it is. It is made quite clear in the following quote:
:14 And when they were come to the multitude, there came to him a certain man, kneeling down to him, and saying,
:15 Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is lunatick, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water.
:16 And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him.
:17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.
:18 And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.
:19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
:21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.
:http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2017:14-21;&version=9;
Jesus replied to the disciples question about their inability to cast out the demon with 'Because of your unbelief'! Not because you didn't pray or fast before you tried to cast him out, but because of your unbelief. What Jesus was talking about in verse 21 is how to get rid of that unbelief, NOT the demon.
To doubt that Jesus' name does not have the power, then you might as well go the whole trip and doubt the divinity and the crucifixion. That's not to say we don't need faith, because we do. But no action we do (prayer, fasting, singing or dancing) can add to the power that is in name of Jesus. 82.23.202.5 18:10, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Certain spirits cast out by fasting and prayer. 

message: Why isn't there any mention of the charm of Pibechis (Πιβήχεως δόκιμον), from the Greek magical papyri (PGM iv.3007ff)?  This is a spell Πρὸς δαιμονιαζομένους, for those possessed by demons, and employs much of the language which would also be used by Christians (ὁρκίζω σε κατὰ τοῦ θεοῦ τῶν Ἑβραίων Ἰησοῦ·; I adjure you by the god of the Hebrews Jesus). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.126.14.229 (talk) 03:38, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Charm of Pibechis 

message: The Quranic verse from Al-Baqara is wrong. It does not refer to possesion, but to Usury.
Sermed 08:56, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Islam and exorcisms 

message: What about the concept and practice of exorcism in Buddhism? The Vajrayana school claims to be able to deal with demon possessions...anyone know anything about it? Le Anh-Huy 11:47, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Exorcism in Buddhism 

message: This section is very annoying because of all the external links, Bible verses, etcetera. I know the Bible verses are necessary but could we at least have them in a references section or something?
The reference about Tanacu was wrong. Is prove now that the death of the nun was doctor's opera (a wrong cure - six time the maximum allowed dose of adrenalin). Also was no crucification, and the women was on she's bed, not... on the wall (?!?). The father is not charged with murder, but neglect, and this only to not charge the police and other stuff for abuse. They arested the priest without no evidences, and accuse him on media, who build the case. Now is clear that it was an abuse, but in Romania police never pay for abuse. So thy accuse the priest for other things, just to seems that is guilty for something, no matter what. But this is no exorcism, but coruption.
I deleted the section about baptists, because it lacked any citations and seemed to project an individuals point of view, rather than a policy of the Sothern Baptists. this is the section I deleted
:Southern Baptists would disagree with the Roman Catholic rite of exorcism entirely, particularly because of the end of the rite which states: "The priest may repeat the exorcism at his discretion". Southern Baptists suspect rituals and claim that they are unbiblical and claim that the Bible comes to their support...assuming Catholics do not pray to God...that God alone has the power to "exorcise" Satan and He may delegate this power to his children. In the New Testament, it states that if you "resist the devil he will flee from you". (James 4:7) God is considered - as in Catholicism - the only true exorcist and his children merely his obedient tools in which to use. Therefore God has ultimate power and control, which in the Southern Baptist interpretation eliminates the need for multiple attempts of an exorcism.
Coffeepusher (talk) 23:50, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Christian Exorcism 

message: It appears that no one is really monitoring this page, since the last edit befor mine was sometime in september 2007.  I am going to be doing some extensive edits, and am probably not going to be discussing them beforehand since it would digress into me posting to myself.  I will post the reasons for major changes to the format, but all otherwise I will just make edit summary's.  this is to say, that if you are interested in this page, just let me know so I don't step on your toes.Coffeepusher (talk) 19:20, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extensive Edits 

message: Is there any attempt at scientific explanation to Exorcism ?
apparently from wikipedia and other sources, it seems that Exorcism exist in many cultures and religions, and that it has been practiced for many years. Many religions also have strict rules on when to use exorcism.
From this I would like to conclude that Exorcism has been met with some success in narrow circumstances, and while there is not overwhelming statistical evidence there seems to be enough anecdotal evidence of successful exorcisms, to conclude that Exorcism sometimes works.
This Raises the Question: does a rare mental defect/disease/disorder exists that will force the subject to act in such a way that it appears as Demonic possession AND where exorcism would aide in recovery or temporary retreat of the disease ?
Multiple personality disorder has been suggested, but under what circumstances would Exorcism help ?
This is not a critique of Exorcism, I am all for its use when it helps, I do not want to remove the religious aspect of the exorcism which is an important part of healing process of the subject.
But I would like to investigate and discuss other explanations for the observed behaviors :-)
Jesper Jurcenoks 20:09, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: although I like your contribution, I am a little sceptical of using a "How stuff works" article as a source.  Can you find another source with the same information?  it seems to me that it is out there somewhere.Coffeepusher (talk) 18:31, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've expanded the section and added one more source. 
Another sources that could be used:
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/neuro99/web3/Bromwell.html
http://www.fortea.us/english/psiquiatria/psiquiatria.htm
I will try to expand the article when I'll have some time ;) Azrael Nightwalker (talk) 12:38, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: those give some good information, however they don't fit Wikipedia's criteria for reliable sourcing WP:SOURCE.  after examining them they appear to be an undergraduate paper, and a website with...well I can't figure out who is responsable for it.  but the paper does have some sourcing, and mabie there is a peer reviewed journal in there that you can use(there should be, I have never writen a paper without good source material somewhere).  also, I have access to quite a few databaces (I am currently in college...and hope to never leave) so if you have somthing spacific you are looking for, just let me know and I can see if there are any journals that you can use. Coffeepusher (talk) 07:00, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've found some reliable journals through Google scholar. I've also copied some text from the demonic possession article. Now the scientific explanation section makes more sense. Azrael Nightwalker (talk) 14:56, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scientific explanation ? 

message: an explination to the editors:
One resource I have been using is Hostage to the Devil.  I understand that it is very contriversial in its presentation of actuall exorcisms, I agree that the accounts are made up and have not used it as such, rather I use it for information on the ritual and history of exorcisms of which he is an expert, and has been recognised for that by many people in the exorcism relm.  However I use fr. Gabriele Amorth when I can for that information. it should also be noted that this book has leaked into penicostal exorcism rituals as a great sourcebook, so if it is to be cited for those perposes I see no problems.Coffeepusher 18:35, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Malachi Martin 

message: It's rarely done when there aren't cameras around.63.227.6.37 (talk) 19:46, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Exorcism is fake 

message: I was hoping that my site, a blog, L'Epee De Dieu (Http://epeededieu.blogspot.com/), might be considered and added as a link on the Exorcism page.  A database of Exorcists around the world is needed, and the one I am compiling is in progress.  Please take a look at what I'm doing and think it worthy.  Those who are in need have very little access to true help.  I spent a week in Rome trying to find an exorcist, and finally, by luck, was referred to one, who has now referred me to another.  I am hoping to build a full and real database, usable by all, and with concrete information for exorcists in all countries.  I would appreciate being a part of this page, and thank you for taking the time to consider it...Rebecca Tacosa Gray  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Reyagray9 (talk • contribs) 04:52, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: if you find exorcists from sources that we can use in wikipeida then you are welcome to edit the page and give the origional referance.  However, blogs arn't admisable and links to them are considered WP:SPAM, the reason is that they are less reliable than other sources.  what you are proposing is a noble goal, however wikipeida dosn't have the means to reliably validate sources such as yours which is the reason that we only allow information that comes from reliable sources and don't allow origional reserch.  please don't consider this a condemnation of your work, it is only intended to be a clarification of our policies.Coffeepusher (talk) 06:36, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  DATABASE OF EXORCISTS 

message: The "Exorcism-related deaths" section is in my opinion extremely biased, and has no apparent references whatsoever. I'm not trying to say that the content is false, but it is extremely pointed against the Christian faiths and is worded so as to provoke instability and idioticy towards Christians. 
Whoever added that content should strongly consider adding a little thought and research/referencing to their highly opinionated & biased "exorcism-related deaths" article.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.79.241.112 (talk) 03:20, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Careless Post Without References Whatsoever 

message: Apparently, a phrase involving exorcisms and the LDS church was removed from the article some time ago by an anonymous user; I wish to know why was it deleted?  Should we put it back?  I leave it to you to answer.--KnowledgeLord (talk) 17:29, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  LDS exorcisms? 

message: The Texas Supreme Court, in a 6-3 decision on June 27, 2008 reversed a $300,000 jury award versus the North Texas Pentecostal church Pleasant Glade Assembly of God (over injuries Laura Schubert,17, suffered in a 1996 exorcism conducted by members thereof). She stated that "she was cut and bruised and later experienced hallucinations, was pinned to the floor for hours and received carpet burns during the exorcism." Justice David Medina, ponente, held "that finding the church liable "would have an unconstitutional 'chilling effect' by compelling the church to abandon core principles of its religious beliefs. The 'laying of hands' and the presence of demons are part of the church's belief system and accepted as such by its adherents. These practices are not normally dangerous or unusual and apparently arise in the church with some regularity. They are thus to be expected and are accepted by those in the church." But Chief Justice Wallace Jefferson, in a dissenting opinion, ruled that the "sweeping immunity is inconsistent with U.S. Supreme Court precedent and extends far beyond the Constitution's protections for religious conduct. The First Amendment guards religious liberty; it does not sanction intentional abuse in religion's name."ap.google.com, Texas high court rules exorcism protected by lawchron.com, Court reverses judgment against church in exorcisms--Florentino floro (talk) 10:48, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good day for exorcists 

message: Please tell me what is wrong with the link to my website www.exorcism.de.
I am an Austrian catholic priest and have a link to the German version of this site(www.exorzismus.net) on the German Wikipedia since years.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by FatherChristian (talk • contribs) 08:35, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is wrong with my link 

message: I don't know much (well, anything!) about Sikh exorcism, but I did at least try to tidy up the English in the paragraph about it.  I'm not sure it makes complete sense, but I tried to keep as much of the original as possible, while making it more understandable.  I think that a number of the non-English words should be defined, especially where there is no link to an article, but as I don't understand the language, I thought it best to leave it to someone else to do. Snorgle (talk) 15:53, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sikh Exorcism 

message: Technically the actions of Jesus and the other disciples in the Gospels, as well as those of Paul in Acts, were not "exorcism", but the Greek εκβαλλω, usually translated as "cast out". Variants of the Greek εξορκιζω are used on 2 occasions in the N.T., once ascribed to the high priest during his interrogation of Jesus, and once referring to the 7 sons of Sceva in Acts who were apparently trying to ritually expel a demon. I know that R.B. Thieme Jr. and I'm pretty sure L.S. Chafer made a doctrinal distinction of this. The Catholic Church also seems to share the same view, that the actions of Christ and His contemporaries were not exorcism proper. I'll post more once I've got sources. Krazychris81 (talk) 08:45, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Christ's actions in contradistinction to exorcism 

message: It would be interesting if there could be information added somewhere on the controversial use of exorcism in the context of therapeutic attempts to cure people from homosexuality.   ADM (talk) 12:04, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: While I am sure that it is going on, I am not sure if it is prevalent enough to justify addition to the article.  Note that your sources provide two different outlooks upon this case.  The video is an exorcism of a “demon of homosexuality,” while the other source states that Homosexuality causes demons.  The second makes no distinction between regular sin and homosexuality and is covered in the article in that “sin=invitation to demons.” The first video would not qualify as a reliable source, and I am not sure if the practice is notable enough to justify inclusion.  In my research I haven’t found any group that specifically targets homosexual demons, if they do target demons of sin (a-la pigs in the parlor) it is more of a blanket condemnation rather than exclusively homosexual.  The ex-gay movement may be one place you can look, however they usually go for behavior therapy rather than healing. Coffeepusher (talk) 17:48, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

text: I also want to add info on homosexuality and exorcisms. There are some academic papers on it: ,  and there may be more if we do some digging. Also this from Exodus International. This recent case created a stack of news and internet activity. -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 23:20, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed your edit for two reasons.  My understanding is you are trying to make a case that exorcisms are used to cure Homosexuality.  However your news article that generated a lot of interests stated that "this was the first time that exorcisms were used to cure homosexuality."  The Exodus international article stated that "if homosexuality is caused by demons, then exorcism is the cure" however the rest of the article proposed a different solution, and Exodus international does not opperate under the assumption that Demons are the cause.  The combination of these two sources is close to WP:SYNTH and if you want to make the case you will have to come up with a group that spacifically targets homosexual demons, rather than the groups that target demons in general and some happen to be homosexual (which was the case of your news article).  take note that for groups that follow Frank and Ida mae Hammond's theology (as quoted in your Exodus international article) Demons of homosexuality are just one of 12 spacific demons in the grouping of Sexual impurity, and Sexual Impurity is grouping #48 of 53...and I would rather not hunt down each instance of all the...hundreds or thousands of different demons that are being exorcised by these groups.Coffeepusher (talk) 04:37, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

text: I have re-read my statement, and realized that I sounded harsh which was not my intention.  unfortunatly CMC is less than adiquate for providing the suptle neuances neccisary to create a good discussion.  My research has led me to believe that Homosexuality and demon possesion only occurs in isolated pockets and has yet to create any consistant theology or practices.  I may very well be wrong, so if there is a significant factor that I am missing than please let me know.  what I am saying is that I did not mean to shut down any dialoge in the last comment, and I am hoping it didn't stear you away from this page.Coffeepusher (talk) 03:23, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

text: What I am saying is that, in all ignorance of sound science, there are some religiously inclined people who misguidedly use exorcisms to in an attempt remove homosexuality. There is enough material out there to have at least a small subsection on the topic. -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 06:16, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Exorcisms on homosexuals 

message: I'm a little shocked to find that there is only one sentence on "exorcism in oriental cultures," and it isn't even a generalized statement.  Is there a separate article that deals with exorcism outside of Christianity, or have we just not gotten around to it? -moritheilTalk 10:39, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: it is a little hard to avoid WP:SYNTH and WP:OR when a culture does not use the word exorcism or have the same practices as what is traditionally called exorcism.Coffeepusher (talk) 04:51, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Exorcism in Asian cultures 

message: Look, this section is absolute garbage, and there's no point in keeping it around unless someone can replace all those pointless ellipses with actual content, which is very unlikely to happen. 124.169.135.145 (talk) 08:17, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Exorcism in Zen 

message: I added a video of a real exorcism at the link section but it was removed?? It was both instructional and showed a real live exorcism. Should videos not be added to wikipedia articles? Please help? Peace!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Humilityisfine (talk • contribs) 13:32, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Ps. I didn't remove it, I just agreed that it should be removed.  you will have to convince both of us of its worth if you want it on this page.Coffeepusher (talk) 20:45, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

text: look, I didn't realize you where a new user.  let me explain my point better.  while we do use external links you should read WP:EL and pay attention to the WP:YT while I don't see a conflict in that section itself the video is not identifies on youtube as anything other than stating it is "a real life exorcism" which makes it one of a dozen of video's with that claim.  this makes me question its reliability so I look further to find anything that may prove that this is a real life exorcism.  things I would look for "what theology is being applied and what denomination is doing the exorcism" organized churches have very specific doctrine regarding exorcisms yet I don't recognize the ritual being preformed (and I have read quite a bit regarding different exorcism rituals) yet they are from the orthodox church, but don't appear to be following strict doctrine.  with all this I can't verify its reliability as a source, and can't figure out what this will add to the encyclopedia other than claiming that a single unverifiable video is a exorcism ritual based on the word of the video poster alone.Coffeepusher (talk) 22:18, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

text: I reverted the video link initially for reasons enumerated by Coffeepusher. Following a limited discussion on my talk page, I see that there was already a discussion here as well. I personally am pretty reluctant to include any YouTube video except under certain circumstances of verifibility amongst other criteria. If the video in question espoused by the APA or something, I would have a different stance. I'm glad that we have new editors trying to be helpful here, but I just don't think the link is that good. :( Falcon8765 (talk) 16:38, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

text: My intention wasn't to make a reference to the psychology of exorcism, but rather the notion of a reliable source. You are correct in that I am indeed not a judge of what is and is not an exorcism and my personal views on the subject have no place in an encyclopedic article. However, regardless of my person views on exorcism, I just don't think the link is terribly appropriate for the same reason dozens of videos of whatever aren't on any popular article. It opens up a can of worms where everyone with a video about X wants it on the page. I for one, don't want to arbitrate the worthiness of Youtube video X by user X over Youtube video Y by user Y. If you so desire, you can solicit a WP:RFC from a third-party who is not involved. Falcon8765 (talk) 16:58, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

text: The video has no listed copyright information, advertises some random website, and isn't verifiable in any way. As I stated before, if the video was from a reliable source, I wouldn't have a problem with it's inclusion as it would indeed be demonstrative of the article's topic. For clarification purposes, the guidelines that would relate to this are at WP:EL. My Video X and Y argument is the underlying logic of most of the link guidelines. Falcon8765 (talk) 17:20, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

text: Verifiable as in what the video depicts isn't a hoax and has third-party information regarding it. Copyright information as in who, if anyone, owns the rights to the video - copyrighted video links aren't appropriate. Having a logo doesn't exclude all useful video links from inclusion, but it usually indicates that the video in question is copyrighted. Falcon8765 (talk) 22:22, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

text: I understand that you are trying to improve the article, but this particular link just isn't great. If you can find a video depicting an exorcism that is of higher quality and less ambiguity, I would be happy to see it included in the article. Falcon8765 (talk) 22:24, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

text: we mean that on wikipedia we run by WP:RS rules, and everything in the encyclopedia must come from a recognizable source that can be determined as reliable.  the only thing we know about this video is that the uploadeder and people on the video say it is an exorcism...but we don't know who they are, what their cradentals are, or even if they are actually affiliated to any religion (there is nothing to prove this isn't just a hoax).  so if you want to find a good video, find something where we can source where it came from (not youtube, but actual credits of who produced the video and who are in the video) and why they are experts in exorcisms.Coffeepusher (talk) 20:12, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Exorcism video. 

message: Must there be a Creative Commons link or icon on a page for me to quote from it? Is this info enough for me to use their material? "All material on this website are free copyright as long as you provide our website and as long as money is not charged."     Im unsure if this is enough for me to use their material? Please help. Peace!Humilityisfine (talk) 08:34, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: you don't have to have the creative commons logo on the page to quote from it, but we prefer to have paraphrase with citation rather than a quote when possible (it is less risky in the copyright violations)  read the WP:COPY which will tell you what sources you are allowed to useCoffeepusher (talk) 07:14, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

text: What makes you think that the Christian opinion is the "biggest" one? I'm sure that it is from your viewpoint but that does not mean the article should coincide with that.  Beach drifter (talk) 22:40, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: well from the looks of the article that is the view with the most history and information, if you would like to beef up some of the other research, be my guest.Coffeepusher (talk) 22:49, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  copyright 

message: This is a religion blind article, that is to say that it covers all practices of all religions, the opening section should not focus on christian beliefs.  I'll be moving the christianity focused paragraph to the appropriate section (just moving not changing or deleting) so as to not give a misleading appearance to the article.
Nefariousski (talk) 19:17, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Christian Perspective in the opening section. 

message: The English word "exorcise" comes from the Greek "exorkhizo" and means "to put under oath."  This is very different from "to abjure" which means "to renounce by an oath."  In exorcism it is the one being exorcised that makes the oath instead of the exorcist renouncing by oath.  The word in Greek doesn't necessarily indicate a spiritual entity but rather the idea of "making someone swear."  It is related to "orkhizo" which is to beg or command.  Adding the "ex" which means "out of" brings the idea that you actually get something out of what you are doing which would be the oath in question.  The Greek word "exorkhisteis" though usually means one who performs exhorcisms on sprits."
--Ben joiner--  —Preceding undated comment added 03:18, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Etymology of the word 

message: I have removed a sentence from the Methodism section: "A combination of these things has been proven to be effective."  The reference given was a link to a sermon.
I did not think a sermon from 2006 constituted a reasonable level of proof. 
I am also not too happy with the rest of the paragraph.  Again with the reference being a single sermon, does not seem up to the quality I would expect Wikipedia to require.  JoshJGordon (talk) 13:41, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proof 

message: A while ago, I came across a book titled "Exorcism", but I don't remember its author for anyone interested in digging this up for me and everyone else. It briefly mentioned a method of exorcising demons from bodies by literally beating up the body to hope to drive the demon out of the body. It also had a little story along with it where a passer by sees somebody being beaten, and asking if it was the proper way to exorcise the demon. How did the people respond? They told the passer by that it is the most obvious way to drive a demon away.
Of course, this was a long time ago, and I was interested in looking into the subject a bit further and went to wikipedia, but this article only covers the more well-known method of calling for god's power to exorcise the demon.
Are physical methods of exorcism this obscure?
71.197.233.168 (talk) 05:31, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I have not come across any reliable sources or established religious practices which condone this methodology.  even in the sociological studies I have read, the most violent act seen was "screaming the demons out" (which was too obscure to include in this article according to WP:WEIGHT).  IF this is practiced it is really obscure, and I have a feeling it was included to sell the book through sensationalizing rather than to observe an established doctrine.Coffeepusher (talk) 17:46, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Physical methods of exorcism? 

message: Shouldn't there be a section that goes more in depth about what skeptics would say is behind possessions and exorcism?-August, 16 2006
No, there shouldn't be a section about what "skeptics say is behind possessions and exorcisms".  This article should be neutrally written, without any arguments for either side.  I like how this article is presently set up, with some cleaning up here and there, mainly in the Protestant section.  This article should lay out what exorcism is, not what certain individuals' opinons on the subject are.  How exorcism is viewed and performed by different religions is what this article should be about.  Please keep the annoying arrogance of the so-called "skeptics" away.
Is it annoying and arrogant because you don't agree with it? No, it is not a neutrally written article, it gives arguments for one side and not another. This article should have a skeptics section. All it would do would be to report what certain skeptics have claimed is behind exorcism. It doesn't have to be a large section, just enough to give an idea of what skeptics would say. I think that makes for a more balanced, interesting article.-November 5, 2006
To the idiot that wrote the paragraph immediately above this one: THESE ARTICLES ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO GIVE ARGUMENTS.  THEY ARE ONLY SUPPOSED TO BE PRESENTATIONS ABOUT A GIVEN SUBJECT. If you read any article in an encyclopedia (which, I am assuming, Wikipedia is supposed to be "encyclopedic"), they present what is, in essence, an extended definition on a given subject.  Arguments are NOT included; what IS included are the facts associated with a particular subject.  What a certain religion BELIEVES about a exorcism, for example, is a fact' whether exorcism actually occurs, however, is different. This should not be included.
The UFO article has an "explanations and opinions" section, which deals with skeptical views of what UFO's are. The Bigfoot article has a skeptics section. A similar section for this article was all I was asking for you. You clearly aren't familiar with wikipedia if you are suggesting that a skeptics section is not appropriate in this article, when such sections exist for many other articles. I don't see how giving a "presentation" of skeptical views on exorcism distracts from the definition or facts about exorcism. But thank you for the ad hominem remark. See you again next year.-8/09/07
:There should be a robust criticism section and skeptical research should be prominent.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.38.208.30 (talk) 18:44, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Skeptics section 

message: It is disappointing that what could be a very well researched article relies on a Christian fundamentalist and pop-psychologist to justify this obvious superstitious practice on unfortunate people who are preyed upon by religious zealots. Scott M Peck, clearly a religious zealot, is an expert on selling books and portraying himself as the only person who really knows anything about anything.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.38.208.30 (talk) 18:41, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: "obvious superstitious practice"...so sure of our point of view aren't weCoffeepusher (talk) 01:45, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'm sure he is, since he has all the evidence on his side.SuperAtheist (talk) 13:46, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: ah yes WP:TRUTH...not a pragmatist I see.Coffeepusher (talk) 16:22, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scott M Peck 

message: I'm sorry, I don't know anything about editing, but I would like to point out that this link:
^ Friedrich Zuendel. "The Awakening: One Man's Battle With Darkness". The Plough. http://www.plough.com/ebooks/pdfs/Awakening.pdf. Retrieved 2009–09–23.
Is no longer correct. It should go here:
http://www.plough.com/ebooks/awakening.html
for all versions available on line, or if you just want to link to the .pdf the new link is:
http://data.plough.com/ebooks/Awakening.pdf
We put it on a CDN for faster downloading. 
Thanks! 
Carole
Plough Publishing  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.72.66.122 (talk) 13:30, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fix link 

message: There seems to be little reason for a gallery on this topic.  Inserting some of the images into to the body of the text would improve the presentation of the topic greatly.  Thoughts? aprock (talk) 20:32, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Integrating gallery into text 

message: the 'scientific view' section should be renamed 'psychiatric view'. i expected it to be about scientific experiments or theories, instead it's mainly about the DSM-IV.
Psychologicaloric (talk) 08:12, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Scientific" view? 

message: It would be good to include the use of exorcism from other cultures and religions (besides those already mentioned). Various animist/pagan/shamanic cultures practice exorcism as well.
Exorcism is found in Korean shamanism for instance. Exorcism is also found in Thai animism and folk Buddhism. Various native cultures in North America believe in it as well. Among West Coast native peoples ( Tsimshian,Tlingit et. I think Inuit used them as well) they have "Spirit Catcher"(made from bone) to recover lost souls but to also exorcise bad spirits.
There is also certain folk beliefs in Chinese culture about ghost possession and how the person can be exorcised by slipping red chopsticks between the fingers and squeezing them together.
Then of course theres numerous cultures in Africa that should be looked into regarding exorcism.
My studies on anthropology is limited and my books are all in boxes right now.
If anyone has more info please contribute. It would be great.
Henry123ifa (talk) 23:51, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  More Sources Needed 

message: The article is written with a biased slant towards the practice's validity.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.207.55.97 (talk) 02:19, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Improper 

message: Psalm 91
1 Whoever dwells in the shelter of the Most High
    will rest in the shadow of the Almighty. ELSHADDAI
2 I will say of the Lord, “He is my refuge and my fortress,
    my God, in whom I trust.”
3 Surely he will save you
    from the fowler’s snare
    and from the deadly pestilence.
4 He will cover you with his feathers,
    and under his wings you will find refuge;
    his faithfulness will be your shield and rampart.
5 You will not fear the terror of night,
    nor the arrow that flies by day,
6 nor the pestilence that stalks in the darkness,
    nor the plague that destroys at midday.
7 A thousand may fall at your side,
    ten thousand at your right hand,
    but it will not come near you.
8 You will only observe with your eyes
    and see the punishment of the wicked.
9 If you say, “The Lord is my refuge,”
    and you make the Most High your dwelling,
10 no harm will overtake you,
    no disaster will come near your tent.
11 For he will command his angels concerning you
    to guard you in all your ways;
12 they will lift you up in their hands,
    so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.
13 You will tread on the lion and the cobra;
    you will trample the great lion and the serpent.
14 “Because he[b] loves me,” says the Lord, “I will rescue him;
    I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name.
15 He will call on me, and I will answer him;
    I will be with him in trouble,
    I will deliver him and honor him.
16 With long life I will satisfy him
    and show him my salvation.”  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.54.9.73 (talk) 08:38, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Invoke ELSHADDAI ,  is the we  Israelis perform the exorcism in Israel and the diaspora. We leav no records to avoid persecution. And must form a minyah. 

message: I decided to reveal a little bit on the way we Israelite perform exorcism. with the simple explanation in my best.Also Now get your basic knowledge correct ,on the term "JEW", that there is no such thing as a JEW, so there is no such thing as a Jewish Exorcism.
The term "jew" were the creation of the Nazi Regime which became fashionable and found it way into the world of vocabulary. For correction sake, we are Israelite, the Children of Yisrael, the house of Jacob.The Nazi itself were an EVIL Force that murdered above 6 million Children of Yisrael.And the  Evils of Nazi regime is in itself a EVIL POSSESSION on a Mega Level, that the world stood silence.It is a mass possession of evil over the body, mind of the Germans then. Such evil still exist and we rule as a corrupt mind of evil forces that is a crime against humanity, the very establishment of the Creation of Good Forces.
Now to the issue of the possession and exorcism.
There are many records of the manifestation of Evil Forces in the Hebrew Torah and our Rabbinical Talmud ( both the Israeli Talmud and the Hammurabi ). There in contains a hotchpot of text which you'll have read. These are just records of that explains the existence of another world on its own. The realm of the Asiah,Yetzirah,Briah and the Atziluth. 
To understand these deeper you got to observe the The tree of life, in the Torah. Read carefully in bereshit ( genesis ), the book would reveal two trees ( the tree of life and another tree of knowledge ).
The significant s of these trees. particularly the tree of life is the secret code of the Life and the Light within. There in. it is a hidden code ,to understand the existence of Holiness of the Creator, the GOOD and the other opposite sight, which is the BAD/Evil. G-d is LIGHT, there for LIGHT is Good and G-d is good.The opposite of LIGHT is Darkness. So where did the darkness come from ? The answer is there was darkness and even darkness is a holi darkness, with out the presents of the evil forces. Generally many always get the idea that darkness is unholi, therefore its evil.That is a wrong idea. 
G-d existed outside darkness on "ITS OWN" and G-d/IT is light that subdued darkness. We are not talking about the sun and the light. We are looking at the ORIGINAL LIGHT, the LIGHT that subdued the darkness. Ii is such an existence,and  it is along  this Consciousness, that we see the existence of  the Evils that tries to subdue the light of the Soul.( now we are aware of the Rebellion in Heaven , where the point the angel of light fell by pride and its beauty). The rebellion happened in heaven not on earth. The Possession is the continues effect of evil subduing the earth by the extension of the rebellion from the heaven by the fallen angels into the mind of living beings and beast too. Take note that even animals could be possessed, we have records of these. In fact any living source could be possessed by evil. eg,a house, a dwelling place, a ship, a garden, a tree or anything for the matter, an object a material, etc. So it not merely the human being the concern here, it also any objects, substance or even an imagery. When you give effect to certain believes, such believes become alife and take control and possession of the mind and react favorably become a reality of EVIL forces. That is how witch craft works by spells 
Your/The Soul is part of the SuperSoul of the Craetor, which is send into the body at the formation period in the womb. The Soul resides in the body and takes a shape and become a baby out into the world. So if you place a child in the dark, the soul in that child still glows in the dark, as darkness is there on its own. But there is also the existence of evil forces that play on the soul harboring and lingering among the darkness trying to dominate the body and the mind that is within the body of the child/person/adult insitu. When the power of evil enters the body it stay s there and starts the demonic oppression of the body, to the mind and the whole being.That is called the possession.
When a possession occurs or takes effect the spirits of demonic oppression ( it has many levels) sets in takes place as evil forces ( the opposite of G-d ) dwells into the body of a person and take possession of the body and the mind. 
The Soul cannot be dissolved or abrogated by evil, because the Soul belongs to the CREATOR- Elokim Echad. We are humans and we cannot perform these ritual with El Shaadai, we are no way equal to El Shadaai. But our Soul is equal and forms the SuperSoul of G-d Alone.
As such we invoke the ElShaddai, we wear the Shawl  and hold on to the fringes.
( there is a big mystery behind the act of donning the shawl). 
We are covered by the the power of god and it is in that abode of cover and security we perform the exorcism . We delve into the many levels of the consciousness/ realm. When we do that we get into the tree of life, travel deeper into the spiritual realm. 
We move through the supernal s and hit on to the level of consciousness of the Kerubim. BVen Elohim,Elohim,Malachim,Seraphim and Chasmalim. As such we delve into the mind of Gabriel,Raphael,Haniel,Michael.Khamael and the Tzadkiel. We neuter the nature of evil that posses the body mind of the possessed in this way, it all a communication and the act of tikkun olam, here to repair the mind, body and the injured soul and sever the dominion of the fallen light in the darkness. You get the help of a multifarious angel of G-d, to smash the fallen light- energy.
That is a little i share with you'll. I am afraid to teach this topic. We have been persecuted in so many ways and it has never stopped. As such we dont leave records, so we do not have many records of exorcism and it is very rare to see the children of Yisrael attacked by possession.
However,  there has been few cases, and these are found in the Tanach straight.e.g We have our King Saul consulting a necromancer- where the impersonating spirit manifest like Prophet Samuel ( but not the prophet )into the body of the necromancer and mediating like the Prophet Samuel. You see, the children of Yisrael were scattered around the world, so we have records of exorcism coming out of many places, in Europe, America, Asia and africa,etc....but mostly this possession happens to persons outside, very rare within our community. The wise thing to do is to see if there are any organic causes, seeking medical diagnosis and even mental illness assessment first before exorcism.
Most possession occurs when  you invite or touch things that carries the dark fallen lights and its negative energies.
Thank you. 
Shalom 
Note: I put this passages in good faith and I seek your understanding in not, persecuting or harassing me in any way by any person, persons or institutions of authority.
 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.54.9.73 (talk) 09:54, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Details of Exorcism 

message: Note: I put this passages in good faith and I seek your understanding in not, persecuting or harassing me in any way by any person, persons or institutions of authority.
There is this common understanding and acceptance that Faith is at work all the time and it is Faith that will bring us through, for this is the value system in our Judaic Believe System. In our Tradition of Orthodox Judaism , faith like love, i sin constant fluctuation. So we shockle as we exercise our faith in davening, It is a like Davidic Dancing. You may love some one but not deeply, but not the same awy all the time. That is an example of constance fluctuation of faith in a certain trying time in ones life. Where is G-d in all these event of fluctuating time. Is G-d absent ? Is it in this absence that the possession takes place. Yes, it is when human soul goes wandering into places that give them the temporary shelter. It is in these times that the evil takes domain. You open the doors to evil through TEMPTATIONS over thought, things and events that contains evil forces. e.g in talisment, in a ritual, in a gathering with the heathens. So where is G-d during the sucession of all these dangerous exploration. And when things go wrong, we alway ask , G-d where are you G-d?. Why do you hide Yourself in time of trrouble ? These are the question that plants the DOUBTS over G-d and SOVERGNITY of the CREATOR. Althought the mind seeks for G-d to deliver from the abormination of possession but the THOUGHT are bombarded with the darkness while the fallen light sparkels . Remember in a possession the mind is the battle grown, that need the salvation. It is through G-d Alone we will find confidence. Everyting that happens is approved and controlled by G-d ( we daven that such temptation are not placed on us, so spare ud G-d, is our pettion everyday an dmoment of time ). And that is the clear message in Psalm 10. G-d knows the transgressors and trouble makers of the darkness of the chief angel of the fallen light. It is G-d LIGHT that will subdue the fallen light. It is in the mean time , a short time the fallen light attackes, but without victory, because G-s is the Awesome.
The day of reckoning comes and will deliver the person from the oppressive possession and G-d hears our petitions. There is , G-d the Judge and there is judgement over Evils. In fact they lost the battle long ago, in the mean time the merely cause constant fluctuation , playing the fool with your passionate intensity in searching for an immediate answer in things that is far away from G-d. In a possession many things happen and such trauma extents to every loop corners of a family and their beloved. The possession  shakes all the minds involved i n the exorcism.You gonna be infuriated when you see the power of sucess of some worst of their character exalted, for even dark fallen lights are capable to do such such temporary miracles , just to confuse your mind and subdue FAITH. 
Please read Psalm 10, associated with the great Job an allusion of how nasty things may turn when Evil Forces get the 'Yes" form G-d. But YOUR SOUL BELONGS TO G-D.
These is an example of demonic oppression but the Level,of possession in Job is the highest level in it hierarchy of the Fallen Light.
Remember, My Father in Judaism  Left a Message,and now I share with you, That G-d hears the yearning humble.
So please remember Psalm 10 in all exorcism, for the G-d heals and recovers the humble.Even after performing the exorcise successfully, please watch out, for it is the exorcist that the FALLEN LIGHT would ATTACK.Exorcist are warned to keep away form material wealth in any form, pecuniary or otherwise, for it is through these the FALLEN LIGHT would try to attack, again and again. Be Cautious !
Invoke, Psalm 20 and  Psalm 92.
Know them by hard or read it aloud again throught out the exocism, till the Fallen Light starts speaking and telling you its name, place of origin and its plan.
G-d glory is above Heaven, and the Fallen Angel knows that, and tell them to return to their place of prison.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 113.10.77.135 (talk) 11:51, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  More details.. 

message: "Superstitious" is pejorative, this article is biased. The religions that practice exorcism don't call it "superstitious"; most are against superstition.Josebarbosa (talk) 18:16, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Medicine says there is no such thing as demonic possession. Exorcism is a phony treatment for a misdiagnosed problem. That's why it is a superstition. Tgeorgescu (talk) 21:41, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Superstitious? 

message: I have changed and edited the citations, to my knowledge any statement after a cited source should be from that source until an additional source is added. Everything should be good now thanks for the feedback    — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rubym123 (talk • contribs) 16:31, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: psychosurgery

message: it is the sequel to the last exorcism and is related to the article..  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thearjunpp (talk • contribs) 10:30, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added the last exorcism part ii  

message: Psychosurgery is completely unrelated to exorcism, which is a religious ceremony. Its inclusion in the article is laughable. It is being removed unless somebody cares to back up its inclusion with solid sources. 46.7.236.155 (talk) 07:05, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: You need to obtain consensus for its removal and that means actually discussing with the community. Furthermore, I am not convinced that the section in question should be removed based on your assertion that it's completely irrelevant. —MelbourneStar☆talk 07:13, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The paper referenced, "Neurosurgical exorcism" does not even use the word exorcism outside of its title. Consensus does not override broader policy, such as need for verifiability. Please see WP:CONLIMITED.46.7.236.155 (talk) 07:20, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Also see WP:3RR.  The references cited clearly point to the notability and relevance of the section in my opinion. ♥ Solarra ♥ ♪ 話 ♪  ߷  ♀ 投稿 ♀ 07:43, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Psychosurgery 

message: Is the exorcist article really needed? Would be easier if all the information was on one article. Goblin Face (talk) 14:47, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for writing Goblin Face, redirect then? Bladesmulti (talk) 15:05, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: It's an unnecessary content fork. If there is anything not already covered in this article then merge it. Otherwise, I'd just redirect it. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:45, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Similar article

message: How important is science or pseudoscience with regard to this topic?  I submit that science has little (or no) pertinence other than to assert that exorcism is not based in reality. Accordingly, adding any description of exorcism as being scientific or pseudoscientific is tangential to the topic and is best confined to a section or footnote.  – S. Rich (talk) 04:27, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: We can add in footnote, but only if some citation makes any claims about it. Bladesmulti (talk) 05:00, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: IMO exorcism and religion in general is pure bunk (albeit, potent bunk). Still, I can't see any WP editing rationale that justifies adding such a descriptive (e.g., "pseudoscientific") to the lede. Williams, who was mentioned by Steeletrap, is now a Further reading item. So I suggest that Williams be used WP:SUMMARYSTYLE and added as a reference.  – S. Rich (talk) 05:14, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

text: Have at it. I recommend adding to the Scientific view section only, with a passing reference in the lede.  – S. Rich (talk) 05:18, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: What it will be? I actually came here to read about the history of Exorcism  because I have some idea about it. I just thought of resolving other dispute first. Bladesmulti (talk) 05:45, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  Are we seriously saying that no religiously motivated claims can be pseudoscientific? THis is political correctness at its worst. Steeletrap (talk) 06:06, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  Not these claims are. These are pre-science and they have later helped scientific theories to develop. Exorcism dates back to Indus Valley Civilization, and it started from 3300 BCE, while psychiatry was already evident from 500 BCE in Indian subcontinent and later other regions of the world. That's why it is historical revisionism when you are calling it pseudoscience. It is also known that these theories have evolved throughout these centuries. Bladesmulti (talk) 06:15, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

text: The only reason we don't consider religious beliefs that entail empirical theories about cause and effect in the real world not to be pseudoscientific, is because it is politically incorrect to do so, given the status of Christianity in our society. Alchemy is considered pseudoscientific even though many forms of it have religious origins; I expect both of you would be arguing it wasn't pseudoscientific if it were tied to some "mainstream" (read: Western) religious doctrine. There is no principled epistemic reason not to label exorcism pseudoscience.  Steeletrap (talk) 07:48, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  If one concept is considered as pseudoscientific, doesn't means that any other unrelated one would be considered as the same. Bladesmulti (talk) 07:55, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: How many times I have to tell you that we don't want to hear your pseudohistorical revisionism because this is not the right place for your gossiping and soapboxing. Bladesmulti (talk) 07:55, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Steeletrap you need to check your anti-religious AGENDA at the door and confine yourself to policy and guidelines. To the extent that Alchemy claims to be scientific, it is pseudoscience. No such claims are made on the part of exorcists. Your attempt to revise the definition in order to suit your openly declared prejudice is grossly inappropriate. And I am frankly disturbed that you may not understand this. -Ad Orientem (talk) 08:06, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'm anti-religion now? Quit making unfounded assumptions. How would you feel if I called you a "faith-head"? Or: "a man who believes himself to be in possession of a magic book"?Steeletrap (talk) 08:36, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Not really unfounded, if someone look at your comments. It is okay that you have clarified that you are not anti-religion, but you haven't clarified that why you are righting great wrongs. Bladesmulti (talk) 16:40, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

text: While there are some people who practice a pseudoscientific version of psychiatry which incorporates elements from exorcism theology, Exorcism itself does not claim to be any part of a scientific discipline.  It isn't "political correctness" but rather an understanding of what pseudoscientific means, a "fake science" which necessitates that scientific claims are being made.  The above article is a scientific evaluation of exorcisms, not exorcisms appeal to scientific validity.  No one is making the claim that exorcisms are a valid scientific school of thought.Coffeepusher (talk) 20:27, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

text: for clarification please see the wikipedia page Pseudoscience "Pseudoscience is a claim, belief or practice which is falsely presented as scientific, but does not adhere to a valid scientific method, lacks supporting scientific evidence or plausibility, cannot be reliably tested, or otherwise lacks scientific status." To claim it is pseudoscience, I would need to see a notable practitioner claim that it is scientific in nature.Coffeepusher (talk) 20:31, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Coffeepusher.  Exorcism is a religious practice, and therefore is not a pseudoscience.  Pseudosciences are things like cold fusion, or free energy that purport to be science based subjects. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rocksanddirt (talk • contribs) 21:37, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

text: It is a Religious practice, nothing else.  It is indeed know as a the current practice in the Catholic Church. As far as I know they didn't tried to put a scientific claim on it. It is a religious belief, putting pseudoscience is misleading, as editor above stated.  Hafspajen (talk) 18:13, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I think, maybe, somewhere, I have seen some sources indicating that in cases of some form of religious aberrant psychology, the form of exorcism is used as a means of psychological healing. Basically, people who have some sort of psychological aberration causing them to think they are possessed get exorcised to permit them to believe the demons they are thought to be falsely thinking possess them are removed. But in such cases, it isn't necessarily really anything like what might be called formal exorcism that is performed. Even in those cases, however, it isn't necessarily really "pseudoscientific," as it is using a practice in the belief that the subject believes it to be effect, and is ultimately a form of the placebo effect. John Carter (talk) 18:27, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I imagine only religious people who go to the priest - it is not advertised in hospitals, I think.  Hafspajen (talk) 18:41, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: From my understanding what John Carter is describing is a pseudoscience, but from the perspective that it is a psudo-psychology not scientific exorcisms.  We have a few examples inside the body of the article, but those examples are very specific strains of psychology and exorcisms and not an example of religious psycology or exorcisms as a whole.Coffeepusher (talk) 18:52, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, the material relating to "demonomania" seems to describe it right now fairly accurately, and such usage is not at all the standard usage of the rite. John Carter (talk) 18:57, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm a little late, but I want to add my input.  Exorcisms are mystical meaning they don't have scientific/empirical/etc. basis.  Because of a recent discussion over on the Wikiprojet:Occult I propose that not only should exorcisms be considered mystical, but "magical".--FUNKAMATIC   ~talk 14:25, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  pseudoscience 

message: I changed (and reverted) the Roman Catholic section to note that the Rite of Exorcism was renewed in January of 2000, as the previous versions impressed that the practice of exorcism is outdated in the Church.  Quite the contrary - though advances in the sciences have aided in the differentiation between demonic possession and mental illness, as Roman Catholics are aware, it indeed remains a recognized and accepted practice of the Church.  For a better flow in the article, I also moved the historical information regarding the position of exorcist.
Also, the Second Vatican Council should be capitalized; it is a title, such as the Council of Trent.
17:17, 26 August 2005
The article mentions that, often, it is necessary to perform weekly exorcisms over a number of years to remove especially entrenched demons.  It would be good to know how much money the Catholic church expects to receive for each application of the exorcism ritual.  John Paul Parks (talk) 17:28, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: It doesn't cost anything, just as it wouldn't cost anything to have a priest give you the last rites, or to hear you in confession, or anything else. It's part of a priest's duties. It's also extremely rare.  BillsYourUncle (talk) 18:42, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Modern-day" Roman Catholic View of Exorcisms 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The New Zealand case of a "Makutu lifting" should not be included.  This was a family suffering from a combination of poor education, low intelligence, mental illness and superstitution. There was no proper basis for any suspicion of demonic possession.  What they called a makutu lifting was simply torture.  Please remove this "example of an exorcism".
: This could also be a good example: http://internationalschoolofexorcism.org/; you can take classes on exorcism and become a certified exorcist. I came across this info by watching a video of the establisher of that school perform an exorcist with commentary by penguinz0 at YouTube. Citations related to schools that teach exorcism: --NoToleranceForIntolerance (talk) 05:56, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Examples 

message: The cultural references section should be severely shortened or removed.  Its got a listitus problem.  Not every bit of pop culture that has a exorcism needs to be included. -Xcuref1endx (talk) 01:36, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cultural References 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: So we have a white secular liberal source criticising West African practices from a position of assumed cultural superiority? And this troubles no one?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 36.11.224.229 (talk) 01:21, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have a Reliable Source that backs up your opinion about this news org? Otherwise, this is only OR.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.169.19.227 (talk) 06:38, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: UK

message: Hi,
Requesting you to have a look at 
* Superstitions in Muslim societies and also Talk: Superstitions in Muslim societies
Requesting article expansion help, if the above topics interest you.
Thanks and regards
Bookku (talk) 06:02, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requesting help in article expansion  

message: San Francisco de Borja y el moribundo impenitente is NOT a painting of an exorcism.
He is convincing the about to die of CONFESSING AND EMBRACING CHRIST. The demons are AWAITING for his soul. He is NOT possesed.
--91.242.158.148 (talk) 22:23, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Goya painting is NOT an exorcism 

message: I have writen that part and want to know your opinion. VScode fanboy (talk) 17:10, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should the part criticism under Christianity be a whole new section?