Talk:Malcolm X/Archive 2

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thread_title: Page under attack

message: :After some time, he moved to New York City, New York, where, in Harlem, he became involved in drug dealing, gambling, pimping, racketeering, and robbery (referred to collectively by Malcolm as "hustling"); he also feigned insanity in order to evade the World War II draft.
I often hear Malcolm in his hustling days referred to as a "pimp", but never found any reference to him doing any pimping in his autobiography; indeed, he suggests he wouldn't be any good at it. One of his best friends was a pimp, but I wouldn't really call that being "involved" with pimping. Also, what made him a "racketeer"? Was it the numbers game? - furrykef (Talk at me) 15:21, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: There's another connotation to "hustling" which is, you might say, the opposite of pimping. Is his autobiography our only source for his youth? -Willmcw 18:30, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
* During his hustling days Malcolm would canvass for johns and arrange sessions for prostitutes, dominatria, and other sex workers. This fact is detailed in the Autobiography. Although people could disagree on the terminology, I would call this work pimping.--Pinko1977 21:46, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Was Malcolm X a pimp or racketeer? 

message: I'm sure many Americans must be sick of hearing this question asked of virtually every other famous American, but ... is it true that Malcolm was of Irish descent somewhere along the line (like Ali)? Thank you. Fergananim 17:34, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I've never seen any claims to that effect, but considering red hair is pretty unusual in folks of African descent, I'd say there's a decent chance of it. We'd need proof if we put it in the article, though.--chris.lawson 19:23, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

text: I agree on the subject of proof. However, red hair is not in itself an indicator of Irish ancestry, as it is found in Scottish, English and German people too. As far as I know, red hair is found more in Scotland more than any other nation, and the Scots are descendants of the Picts, Angles, Britions, Norse and Irish Fergananim 19:29, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. As I said, there's a chance that he's Irish, but we need some more solid proof than simply red hair and a bad temper ;)--chris.lawson 20:03, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

text: Gee, red hair and a bad temper! Plus, he loved his Mum, hated whitey liked we hated the Brits, was a rebel, was tall, dark and handsome, and died tragicly young - what more proof do we need? Just kidding! Fergananim 21:59, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: But he wasn't an alcoholic (just kidding!)
one of his grandfathers was white, maybe he was irish? Colorfulharp233 03:12, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

text:  His mother's father was Scottish, according to Perry. Uucp 10:29, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

text:  Um... hair grows.  Thus, dyeing his hair in his youth would not have an effect on his later-grown hair. 
^^^He did in fact relax his hair a lot as a youth, but his hair was reddish as his grandfather was white (and had red hair).  If anything, the relaxer "brought out" the reddish color more.
-- Mik 17:10, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Irish Roots?

message: Someone put the "current" tag on the article. What current event is it referring to? --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 01:53, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay then it's fine. --a.n.o.n.y.m   t 21:25, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  current?? 

message: Upon listening to the interview with herman blake in 11 oct 1963, found on the article, I have noticed that the current view of Muslims throughout the west is not much differnt when compared to that which is accounted by Malcom X towards the end of the clip. What's your view? Jackpot Den 20:25, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you mean the one of everyone being equal? Which view do you mean? --a.n.o.n.y.m   t 20:46, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

text: My view is that you agree with the grossly stereotypical views of an ignorant segment of the population, and smeared "the west" in the process.  You've also openly agreed with a racist/seperatist who made those comments before he eschewed his racist views.  My view is that you need to take a closer look at what you're assuming and who you're climbing into bed with. 70.115.211.122 07:51, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Yes that still is very applicable now. --a.n.o.n.y.m   t 03:06, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Broadly applicable, but not narrowly -- the general public concept of who a muslim is has changed.  --72.25.0.67 22:00, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Current View of Muslims 

message: Correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't appear that this article is part of any categories like "Black Americans" or "Civil Rights Leaders" or what have you.  It doesn't seem to be contained in any categories at all.  Is it an orphan?
:Yes that's right. Why is this important article an orphan? I added eight categories. --a.n.o.n.y.m   t 20:23, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "Categories"

message: In the first few lines, it says "he brushed the rummors aside" and "He talked to the secretary." Was that Malcolm or Ellih that did these things? I would fix it myself, but I don't know who it was.Minnesota1 05:11, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Malcolm ignored the rumors for a few years and then he spoke with the secretaries (plural). I'll clarify. Uucp 10:31, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Tensions

message: Does anybody else consider the rampant usage of "citation needed" in between every other word in this article a little passive aggressive? Or is it just me? - mixvio 15:06, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It reads terribly, but I think it's valid. The vast majority of the article as it stands today is taken from the Autobiography of Malcolm X as told to Alex Haley, and readers deserve to know that they are reading material from an interested source. There is a huge list of references at the bottom, but I doubt that any of them were referred to in the writing of the article as it now stands. Uucp 15:26, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Constant request for citations? 

message: He's listed as someone opposed to gay rights; can anyone source this? Ohyeahmormons 18:11, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  LBGT rights opposition 

message: I am concerned that this entry relies almost entirely for its content on the Autobiography of Malcolm X, as told to Alex Haley. This book is, in my opinion, very well written and insightful. However, it is also biased, discussing only those aspects of Malcolm's past that he wanted to discuss, presenting only those explanations for his behavior that he wanted on record, and mythologizing his own past and that of his family in some respects.
I would like to see this entry become much better footnoted, so that people can see where each claim comes from. I plan to start inserting material from sources other than the Autobiography as well. I hope that others will join me in this.
Uucp 11:28, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Over-reliance on the Autobiography 

message: A quick Google search did yield this; beyond that, I'd defer to an expert on the subject, relating to the quote, "If Christianity had asserted itself in Germany, six million Jews would have lived." --Emufarmers(T/C) 11:51, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Germany-Christianity quote 

message: It seems to me like someone who is strongly against the FBI wrote the section Nation of Islam. Please I'm new to wikipedia, so tell me if I did this right.
Snoopl3s 00:56, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  FBI 

message: The last two sentences in the intro need rewording/or a strong citation:
:"The situation surrounding his assasination continues to be murky, while he reportedly was assasinated by Nation of Islam officials, he also had many enemies in the United States government. It is widely believed that the government also had a role in the assasination."
I am no expert on the man but I have checked several reliable sources (E.g. "Malcolm X"  Encyclopedia Britannica.  1990 Ed.) and they don't say anything about a government role. I am not saying that the viewpoint is untenable, but I don't think 'widely believed' is correct.
If someone more knowledgeable on the subject doesn't do it in the next day or so then I will (I am hesitant to leap in as I imagine that this article can be controversial).
Also, it's spelt Assassination (unless us Aussies are out of step with the rest of the world on that one – happens occasionally.)
Joaq99 16:13, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Your complaint is valid. Saying that something is "widely believed" does not give anybody much confidence in the purported information. That being said, it is probably a valid comment about public opinion, or one segment of public opinion, in the U.S. to say that many people have wxpressed suspicion. P0M 07:04, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intro needs urgent fixing 

message: Its been fixed, but I noticed someone defaced the page making it sound like he was the founder of the KKK.  Here is a quote.  "Malcolm X, born Malcolm Little, also known as Black Evil and El Hajj Malik El-Shabazz (Omaha, Nebraska, May 19, 1925 – February 21, 1965 in New York City) was a Muslim Minister and National Spokesman for the Nation of Islam. He was also founder of the UAZ and the KKK."  Please report further incidents so we can keep track of it.  Keithg 20:15, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Defacement 

message: Midway down the article there is a "neutrality questioned" flag, saying somebody has nominated it as needing attention in this regard. There is a link to this talk page, where whoever placed the notice should have given some justification for throwing doubt on the legitimacy of the article. But I see no mention of "neutrality" in any of the stuff above.
I think the article could be improved, but a quick reading reveals no hint of intentional bias to me. I do think, however, that the article is less than objective in the sense that it does not give due recognition to this individual's highest qualities and greatest contributions to American life.
So, whoever put up the notice, let's have some specifics. P0M 08:04, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure why it's there, but it might be the following, which has been discussed on the talk page -- the article sources only from the Autobiography, which like all autobiographies, is a biased and selective rendition of the man's life. Books have been written by others who investigated Malcolm X by reviewing old tapes, speaking with people who knew him, reviewing public records, etc., but none of this is reflected in the article. Uucp 12:17, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality dispute?