Talk:Götterdämmerung

message: The final perfomance before the fall of Berlin in WWII by the Berliner Philharmoniker on April 12th 1945 was the finale from Gotterdammerung, as it was felt to be entirely fit for the situation, should this be mentioned in the "Notes" section? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.123.210.71 (talk) 21:19, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Only if it can be verified by a source. Do you have a source for it? --Alexs letterbox 01:44, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Then by all means add it, citing that book using Wikipedia:Footnotes. --Alexs letterbox 08:27, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Do we really want to declare Albert Speer a "reliable source"? --OliverH 11:53, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You got something to suggest that he isn't?  74.140.211.161 14:45, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Final Performance

message: I have removed:
At War With The Mystics, the eleventh album by American rock band The Flaming Lips, features a track entitled "Pompeii am Götterdämmerung".
As it appears to have nothing to do with the opera (as well as being irrelevant). --Alexs letterbox 23:27, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I concur heartily; we don't want trivial pop/rock connections to major operas!  --Allansteel 03:07, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But at the same time, the title of Friedrich Nietzsche's "Twilight of the Idols" (Götzendämmerung) was an intentional, punning reference to the concept treated by Wagner in this play. Should something about that be included in the article? AllGloryToTheHypnotoad (talk) 16:23, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Removal of Trivia

message: I havent seen it, but from this article i dont get the reason for the death of the gods? --82.131.86.22 13:57, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As far as I can recall, the fire from the funeral pyre reaches into the sky and basically burns Valhalla and the Gods. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.161.169.98 (talk) 01:32, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Its complicated. In the prologue, the Norns tell us that Wotan has felled the World Ash Tree, and has piled its timber around Vahalla. Brünnhilde sends ravens to her rock to tell Loge to go to Vahalla. He does, and it burns. The actual process of Vahalla's destruction is of little consequence: we know that the Gods are going to die as early as scene iv of Rheingold. --Alexs letterbox 02:00, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Here's my $0.02 on this: There is no good reason, plotwise, for the gods to burn!  If Hagen had gotten the ring, then it might make sense, but under the circumstances it's totally inconsistent.  The premise is Wotan is doomed because he didn't give the ring back to the river-sprites.  This is why Loge abandons him and considers burning him at the end of DAS RHEINGOLD.  In GDAM Waltraute makes it very clear, and Alberich repeats, that the disaster can be averted by returning the ring to the sprites.  So Brunhilde's doing so, just before immolating, should have saved Wotan.  Why didn't it?  Wagner knew that if the audience left wondering what happened, they'd talk about it longer.  What we now call the "2001-A-Space-Odyssey Principle".  So you mustn't try to be too logical about GDAM and especially don't try to make it fit with the other three chapters.  GDAM was conceived first, and it is dictated by the desire to stage certain scenes from epic poetry--Brunhilde-recognises-ring,-makes-scene, and, Hagen-impales-Siegfried-from-behind--than by the desire to make a bigger point.  Wotan and the superman-redeems-corrupt-outdated-morality stuff and the curse and the ring having magic powers came later.  George Bernard Shaw wrote that for him the Ring Cycle, as a philosophical work, ended at the last chord of SIEGFRIED; GDAM was just a sequence of operatic cliches.  The heroic-friendship-duet, the leader-rallies-followers scene, the dying-tenor-aria, the funeral march, the final soprano-aria, all standard conventions. SingingZombie (talk) 08:32, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  UPDATE: this is similar to Lohengrin.  At the end, Lohengrin laments that if only Elsa had let him stay with her for a year before popping the question, then Gottfried would have been disenchanted and restored to leadership.  Having said this, he promptly... disenchants Gottfried and returns him to leadership!  Wagner loved to make the villains win, but he was unable to stomach their victories.  68.173.17.250 (talk) 01:40, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll chip in a penny. My memory of the curse is that Wotan is to return the ring. Having forever to do so, he doesn't and someone else does. Opps. htom (talk) 21:10, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  End of the plot 

message: FYI I don't know how to incorporate this into the article, but in Thor (Marvel Comics) a Marvel Comics wrote a short series based loosely on this, the Nibelunglied and the Volsunga in between issues #292-300.MPA 23:03, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Marvel Comics

message: Deleted a short paragraph that worked to defame Wagner's work by claiming Nazi policies were based on it / Norse mythology, which is utterly absurd.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.41.55.88 (talk) 05:53, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Smear Words

message: I am watching the Spanish production of this. Why does Siegfried leaves Brunnhilde on the rock? Also,if she is human now, would he have left her there to starve? Luckily she is saved by the fake Gibichung. Myrvin (talk) 11:12, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Although she is human now, she still has some magical powers--witness the fact that according to her remarks to Hagen she cast spells which protect Siegfried from being harmed in battle (although not from a stab in the back) in spite of not having met him until after her transformation into a human.  Presumably these magic powers include the ability to conjure food.  HandsomeMrToad (talk) 00:36, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brunnhilde's rock 

message: The initial letter of the word "ring" should not be capitalized, unless the word is part of a title, as in "The Ring of the Nibelung", in which case it should also be italicized.  If you're referring to the magic ring itself, it should be spelled "ring", not "Ring".  I am replacing several incorrect "Ring"s with more correct "ring"s in the synopsis.  Goblinshark17 (talk) 07:23, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you, that makes sense, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:38, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Spelling of "ring"

message: Substituted at 16:55, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: I changed the sentence in "Analysis" that states Hagen's stab in the back was inspiration for the he myth that the German Army did not lose World War I, but was instead defeated by a treasonous "stab in the back" from civilians.  It stated this as fact, which is obviously unverifiable (and dubiously signficant IMHO).  I restate it as a suggestion from John Roberts (historian).  However, it's unlikely he was the first to suggest this, so I ask anyone with better knowledge to provide a better citation.  Unless this is deemed too trivial to belong in the article.  Zaslav (talk) 02:55, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Stab in the back" myth 

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thread_title:  [[:File:Max Brückner - Otto Henning - Richard Wagner - Final scene of Götterdämmerung.jpg]] scheduled for POTD 

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