Talk:2005 Atlantic hurricane season/Archive 16

message: Note - much of the discussion and update-notifications from my project were moved to Archive 6, here. The Great Zo 23:03, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Good work on the research. It's very cool for us "hurricane freaks". :) bob rulz 08:20, July 10, 2005 (UTC)
Fantastic work on the records.  People don't have a clue about the difficulty of the operation.  147.70.242.21 20:53, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: The Project

message: I wish people would stop archiving this section.
Here are the gaps we had without any tropical cyclones. Total time in the 2005 season: 67 days, 18 hours (37.0% of the time - another new record!). --Golbez 08:59, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: If Delta lasts into December, or a late storm forms, how does that figure into the gap time as a percentage of the season? --Route56 19:04, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The time spent off-season won't count. CrazyC83 23:26, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gaps 

message: I have built an article around my table (still at User:Ems57fcva/sandbox/TC_table), and added another one (but this one without a lot of color).  I will let it sit for a day or two.  After that, I plan to move it to 2005 Atlantic hurricane season statistics.  I will stand pat on the color issue.  The big table is not nearly as useful without them.  I will admit that the big table is an interior designer's nightmare, but when you look past the colors and at the data that they encode, it becomes very, very helpful.  Quick!  Find Katrina, Rita, and Wilma!  As bright red entries they are staring you in the face.  Without the color, that task would not be so easy.  OTOH, E. Brown is right that the big table would be a disasterous turn-off at the start of the main article.  At the end of this one, it should work a lot better. 
BTW - I may also put the table for comparing this season to an average season in this page.  It is statistical and not in other storm season pages. --EMS | Talk 04:44, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article version almost done 

message: Since the 2003-back seasons have no tropical depressions, I thought we should get rid of this year's as well, but I hit on a better idea.
User:Sarsaparilla39/Sandbox
:Great idea! The depressions shouldn't be with the storms, but we can't just get rid of them. Good compromise. Hurricanehink 14:40, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Agreed, that's a nice organizational change. (We're "too crazy," eh, Hurricanehink?) --AySz88^-^ 16:32, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Got that right Aysz88. Sarsaparilla, you should go ahead and do it. Hurricanehink 16:37, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  This has been done before as on 1966 Atlantic hurricane season; I'm not sure why it wasn't continued. - Cuivienen 17:14, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

text: I could get behind this, even though I actually like having the depressions in the main sequence. But I won't complain if it's done. Except rename "Other Storms" to "Depressions" maybe. Actually, removing them from the main sequence does make it easier to see which was the Xth storm. --Golbez 17:17, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: But why stop with depressions?  Why not move non-notable storms like Lee over there too? Jdorje 18:42, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Because they're part of the main sequence of storms. The season included both Lee and STS22, but depressions are rarely if ever notable. Lee was notable essentially for incrementing the letter, but still necessary to fully explain that. Either split off the TDs, or don't, but don't split off the main storms. For the 2004 Pacific season, I attempted writing summaries only for the notable storms - that was apparently not what people wanted, as every Pacific storm for other seasons now has a writeup (the 2004 season article was the first one created). So people apparently want writeups for every main storm, but depressions, well, I said I COULD get behind it, but I prefer them to be in the main sequence. So maybe your interrogation is misdirected. --Golbez 19:03, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

text: I don't think it's confusing, but I'll just go with the majority on this. --AySz88^-^ 20:53, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Moving the storms out of the main sequence makes it harder to determine when they occured in the course of events of the season.  There is no real reason to move these. --tomf688{talk} 00:37, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. I like the TD descriptions where they are and I believe it's better that way. bob rulz 08:07, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tropical Depressions 

message: The final report on Hurricane Dennis is out. No real changes to the intensity, although there was a slight change to the track: it did make two landfalls in Cuba, the first near Punta del Ingles (originally it was thought it had stayed just offshore there). Also there was a Grenada landfall while it was TD4. CrazyC83 18:32, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Where can Final Reports be found? --SargeAbernathy 18:40, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Click here for the Dennis report - other reports can be found here. I adjusted the timeline and made a few changes to the Dennis page to reflect the revised track. CrazyC83 18:47, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Anyone know where the best-track info from the final report can be found (in a convenient text format, that is)? Jdorje 09:30, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Dennis report, in Microsoft Word NSLE (讨论+extra CVU) 08:24, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Unisys when it is released, not sure when it will be there. CrazyC83 16:18, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dennis report - minor changes 

message: Okay ... There is a LOT of information out there about hurricanes, tracking of, naming of, scientists, intensities, scales, records, etc.  Has anyone here ever thought about purchasing one of those opens ource wiki kits and making an independent wiki page to document hurricane material?  Then set up wikipedia with basic information with a link to the Wikicane site for more detailed analysis? --SargeAbernathy 18:40, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, Portal:Tropical cyclones can definitely be done, if people consider it to be a good idea. Titoxd(?!?) 04:22, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I actually was thinking about that once. I certainly won't stop anybody who wants to make it. bob rulz 06:02, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Then it's time to jump on the bandwagon and make it. I'll make that a blue link and I ask all the regulars here to go check that I'm doing everything right. Titoxd(?!?) 06:16, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Make Cyclones capitalised, though, like Wikipedia:WikiProject Tropical Cyclones... NSLE (讨论+extra) 06:24, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

text: I hadn't read your comment, but fortunately, I had capitalized it anyways. It is available at Portal:Tropical Cyclones. Titoxd(?!?) 06:25, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Now, I need people with some creativity to help me fill this out. I'll go look at other portals for ideas, but I'd sure like it more if all of us contributed on this. Titoxd(?!?) 06:29, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks really good. I'm looking forward to its expansion. Anything in particular that I can do? -- Hurricane Eric - my dropsonde - archive 14:57, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  There still is a lot to do! A layout has to be decided, and we have to decide what exactly to put on the main page. We also have to populate the list of categories, list of seasons, decide on an article to submit to WP:FA and Peer review. Also, we need to get ready for next season. Man... I think that we need all the hands we can get here. Titoxd(?!? - did you read this?) 00:31, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Wikicane

message: Once I saw that the ACE table had been removed, I decided that it was time to move my new article, 2005 Atlantic tropical cyclone statistics, over to the article space.  I am also using it to take the place of the deaths table, which I did delete. --EMS | Talk 15:57, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  ACE and deaths tables 

message: I understand why the ACE table was removed.  However, I think it should be left in there because the ACE is of the records that was made/broken during the 2005 season.  If someone wanted to know this information, he/she would look here.  There is another article, 2005 Atlantic tropical cyclone statistics (created by EMS, see above section), but this article is not complete yet.  -- 165.161.3.13 18:37, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You can mention the ACE record was broken without having the ACE for every single individual storm. --Golbez 18:42, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of ACE 

message: I put the current event tag back on.  We can debate whether or not we should be predicting any December storms later, but at least as long as Epsilon is active, new & current information will be added to the 2005 Alantic hurricane season page rapidly, thus justifying it as a current event.   Whether or not the season is "officially" over or not doesn't change the fact that there is an active tropical cyclone in the Atlantic at the current moment. -PK9 21:02, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Shouldn't it be mentioned that any storms that might form during December would still be counted as part of this season? --WolFox (★Talk★) Contribs 06:32, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Current events tag 

message: What is the record for the latest storm in a hurricane season? --Revolución (talk) 23:07, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The second Hurricane Alice of 1954 developed on December 30, 1954 and lasted until January 5, 1955. CrazyC83 23:19, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: And that's assuming you place the cutoff at the year boundary.  One could argue that since the season is 6 months long, the 3 months before and 3 months after should be considered part of that same season.  This would mean January and February storms would count for the season before - and there have been several such storms.  However the only official data I'm aware of is the NHC best-track ("HURDAT") data, and these list January storms as part of the next year (though it's not clear whether they do so consciously or just by default). Jdorje 23:37, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the cutoff has to be at the year boundary because January and February storms are given names off the 2006 list, not the 2005 one.  It might not be the most valid choice, but its the choice the NHC/WMO has made. -PK9 04:51, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: And a fair one at that, since they are extremely rare. The oceans are too cold and too unstable most of the time. CrazyC83 05:09, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: If it were any year but 2005, I'd relax, but when I look at Dr. Gray's season summary and see stuff like this: As of November 16, no tropical cyclone activity was recorded during the month.  Since 1950, 33 of 56 years have had no named storm development during November.  Very few seasons have witnessed tropical cyclone development after November 18.  And immediately 2005 drops 3 storms after the 18th on them...  I wouldn't put it past December to have a couple for us.  And maybe January, although that would go into the next year's wiki.  -PK9 00:31, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Oh yeah, and the other official data would be the naming system, which would imply a Jan 1 cutoff. Jdorje 05:13, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well wait, what about the Southern-hemisphere seasons?  Where do they put their cutoff?  Would the convenience be enough for policies to be different for the Northern hemisphere? --AySz88^-^ 05:15, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Most of them have no cut-offs, they have lists that keep rotating regardless of year, like the Western Pacific and the Central Pacific. CrazyC83 05:17, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course...if a storm is named before midnight Dec 31 it uses a 2005 name,but would a numbered,near-storm-strength 2005 depression still get a 2006 name if it reached name status just after midnight?--Louis E./le@put.com/12.144.5.2 18:53, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm also wondering what would happen with the ACE, would a late December storm that carries over contribute part of its ACE to 2005 and part to 2006? -PK9 00:13, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Latest storm dissipation 

message: Look at the charts here at USA Today. Those look like they came out of the Wikipedia infoboxes! CrazyC83 04:14, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  (Direct link) --AySz88^-^ 05:22, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Indeed, the way they categorise deaths into direct and indirect. NSLE (讨论+extra) 04:47, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: There can be little doubt they are taken from wikipedia...or one of the mirrors. Jdorje 05:12, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Even the "(potentially more)" under the "Hurricane Katrina" death toll was probably taken straight from the Hurricane Katrina infobox.  I wish the press would cite things like this, just to avoid possible self-reinforcing loops of bad information. --AySz88^-^ 05:22, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Are we the official hurricane source? 

message: Discusses the issue of back up names.  One suggestion is to have another list to the six in rotation and use that for any of the six that exhuast their list.  I think it's a good idea. What do you guys think? tdwuhs
: Alpha might be a candidate for retirement because Tropical Storm Alpha caused flooding that killed 33 people in Haiti and nine in the Dominican Republic in late October. Do you really think so? Titoxd(?!? - did you read this?) 05:25, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I like the idea. I'd be curious to see what lists we could come up with...although I wonder if a male or female name should lead the list. I don't really think Alpha is a good candidate for retirement based on that description though... CrazyC83 05:30, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Speaking of which, 33 and 9? That's more deaths than we have recorded for Alpha. I'll go update the Alpha page. - Cuivienen 14:27, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Back up List