Talk:List of Blood+ characters/Archive 1

message: In 1918, when Solomon was made a chevalier soon after WWI, he had just begun his practice as a physician; and judging from his looks, he was probably in his twenties. So in 2007, he was probably 110+ years old instead of ~90 years old. --Lareine 09:26, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Solomon's Age 

message: I really like the anime and the manga. Its awsome!!! The discussion has more detail than the headlinings with the pictures. Anyway...... its still cool.
                                                               21:21, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blood+ 

message: I was wondering, is the character page going to get fix up to so that it will be easier to find the characters that one is looking for?  The way it is now, if someone was looking for info on lets say Kai Miyagusuku, one has to scroll down the page to get the info instead of just click on the name in the content list.
I think it would be beneficial someone fixed the page so that characters names appeared on the content list.  I would try do it myself, but I don't have the time it would take to do the whole page.
:I made a try at it, but in order to keep the same format, all the stuff about the name on that line shows up in the contents, so I didn't save it.  Does anyone have suggestions on how the format could be restructured?  Also note that this will make the contents part pretty long. --Eruhildo 04:44, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cataloging Characters 

message: It would probably be helpful to include a spoiler warning at the top of the page. There might be some people who find their way here through links, and they might not have finished watching the series yet. 124.105.184.241 00:33, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spoiler Warning 

message: Diva looks like she's 16, Riku looks like he's 13. That's only 3 years. I think calling Diva a pedophile is going too far.
Blacktiger9000 20:54, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In that case I suppose I can head to Japan just for the purpose of doing some 16-ish year olds, and not be considered a pedophile. Facetious. All in all I'd say Haji exhibits tendencies of pedophilia, calling Diva one is stretching it for me. 70.19.29.65 06:46, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I wouldn't call either of them pedophile. (Haji is younger than Saya and once looked like it too.) I think that part should be removed. --Eruhildo 19:59, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would say neither too but if I had to choose it'll be Haji. He looks 20+, Saya looks 20-. I was just surprised to see it called pedophilia when besides her age Diva is essentially a child.70.19.29.65 22:02, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Diva a pedophile? 

message: :Image:Joel1st.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 05:06, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fair use rationale for Image:Joel1st.jpg 

message: :Image:Joel6.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 05:06, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fair use rationale for Image:Joel6.jpg 

message: Are the ages for the characters best guesses or are they offically stated somewhere?  Because the Japanese version of the page says Kai is 17 at the start, and Riku is 14.  Also, I didn't think 2 years had passed by the time of Riku's death. --Eruhildo 19:09, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've checked the official website witch states that Kai is 17 years old at the start of the series, which makes sense because he was still in high school at the time. Riku's age was not listed. I did a quick search on Google for Riku's age and the first page of English sites said he was 13, but the first page of Japanese one said he was 14. Does anyone know which age is correct? --Eruhildo 19:27, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I thought it said that Kai actually LEFT high school to help his father in the Omoro.--SayaMan 16:39, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you sure about that? Kai was wearing the school uniform in the first couple episodes and in episode 2 Riku says, "Onii-chan no gakkou" (Eng: Kai's school) in reference to Saya's high school. Though it could have been mentioned in a later episode that Kai had dropped out. Do you know exactly where? I haven't watched much of the early episodes in a while. --Eruhildo 21:44, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, I'm not sure, I believe that's what is written on japanese vestion of the page. Though i think that is true for MANGA version, don't recall such information about tv series. --SayaMan 12:57, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Character Ages 

message: Does anyone else think List of minor Blood+ characters should be merged with this article? It seems kind of pointless to me to have two separate pages. I can't think of any other articles that do this. --Eruhildo 20:48, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Merge ahead. Fox816 16:49, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge 

message: The article states that in the last ep. all three are heading to the Middle East. I've watched a few last episodes but can't find any mention about that. Someone who knows the exact place, could you please help me to find it?  :/--SayaMan 01:43, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: When Kai is cutting Saya's hair in the last episode (about 16 minutes in), he tells her that Okamura and Mao are going to the Middle East; I guess to investigate a story or something. There is no mention of Lulu at all in that scene, nor is she mentioned going with the other two anywhere else in the episode. I've already fixed the descriptions. Thanks for pointing this out. --Eruhildo 03:10, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Oh, i see it now, thanks. It's a pity that Lulu isn't going though)--SayaMan 12:48, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Okamura, Jahana and Lulu 

message: Shouldn't there be one? And not just of her in her Riku form?
:I agree, there should be one if we can find one that does not violate the fair use rationale. --Eruhildo 18:58, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A pic of Diva's real form 

message: Where does Saya get her surname? Kai, George, and Riku are all named "Miyagusuku" so it's not an adoptive name; the next logical thought would be "Goldschmidt" after the original Joel, but that's not it either.
Did I miss something? It's really bothering me!
~goes to rewatch all 50 episodes~♥♥♥
She is adopted in away so ? Hmm the truth? (talk) 14:41, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Otonashi? 

message: Saya goes to sleep after being awake every 3-4 years. I wonder how did she get to watch Haji grow from 13-21 without going to sleep. Was it because she wasnt fully developed? Apparently she didnt hibernate while the 1st Joel was alive I suppose.
Princessmb november 26 2007
:I think it has something to do with their fighting blood being activated. I'm fairly certain it has nothing to do with making a Chevalier as Diva had one longer than Saya did, but their sleep cycles matched - the likelihood of this is slim. I guess it could be to protect them from killing each other off too soon. Of course, nothing official has been released on this, so I'm just theorizing. --Eruhildo (talk) 18:31, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  hibernation of saya 

message: User_talk:Horashe has created a stand-alone article for Saya Otonashi.
It is almost a duplicate of the section List of Blood+ characters#Saya Otonashi.  Do we really need to have separate pages for each anime character?  Joeinwap 10:55, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would say that there is enough already written for Saya, Haji, and Diva to have their own articles.  I think enough could be written for Kai and maybe Riku to have their own articles as well.  I think this page is kind of long and would be better if it were broken up that way.  I think the Schiff could use their own article as well. --Eruhildo 19:56, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There should be enough out-of-universe information to justify separate character articles. As far as Saya goes, there should be an abundance of that out there and considering her character is central to not only the series but a movie and manga as well then having an article for her is necessitated. However, for Haji and the rest I don't think it's needed. Fox816 (talk) 04:01, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Saya's info is now back in this article and the Saya article AfDed for the second time. There was no justification or reason to undoing the first AfD consensus; Saya in Blood+ and in Blood the Last Vampire are too different to need a combined article, each article covers her sufficiently in their own contexts.  None of the characters meet the notability requirements for having their own articles and it violates WP:PLOT. AnmaFinotera 09:36, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I should be able to find enough sources for the Saya article if you give me a few weeks (I have finals coming up). As for the others, I agree that there is not enough to justify them. --Eruhildo 01:04, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Saya's article is already up for AfD.  As Blood+ and Blood the Last Vampire are dramatically different, Saya's character in each should be covered here and in Blood the Last Vampire's main article, as it already is.  Separate character articles are strongly discouraged and it will just get AfDed again.  She is already well covered here.  AnmaFinotera 01:23, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

text: I'll consider doing one on the Schiff over the weekend. I'll need to do a bit of research first though. --Eruhildo (talk) 19:59, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Schiff do NOT deserve their own article.  Please review WP:FICT and WP:PLOT. They are unnotable outside of the series and there is no real world information that can justify such an artice. If created, it would quickly be AfDed. AnmaFinotera 09:36, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, I just wasn't thinking when I wrote that post. --Eruhildo 01:04, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Separate articles for each main character? 

message: Okay guys im sorry if i offended anyone by putting my article at the top but there i've made two article that i need help to keep from getting deleted. they are both about blood+ one is a kai profile  and the other one is "the world in which we exist" episode. Kai  
[] The world in which we exist []
please quick! help these kodomoppoi butas are annoying me! see i know japanese too! Deanostrodamus the Mystical (talk) 15:34, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Neither of those articles meets WP:NOTE or WP:FICT. Please read both thoroughly before creating anymore articles. WP:EPISODE also has good info on this subject. I've added a welcome message to your talk page with a slew of good links on editing Wikipedia. Please read at least some of those. Thank you. --Eruhildo (talk) 19:51, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortunately there is not enough reason to keep those articles. They lack any notable information outside of just retelling what happened in the series. Especially for articles dedicated to episodes, there should be reliable and carefully cited encyclopedic information such as, but not limited to, production notes/words from the director or author/design/influences/etc... If the article is plainly a recap of what happened in the plot then we can't do anything but have it deleted. However, what we will try and do is hopefully salvage the article by finding out-of-universe information to make it worth keeping. Although, it is primarily the responsibility of the creator of the article to add in this information when starting up the page and not relying on other editors to do the work for you. Keep that in mind in the future. Like Eruhildo stated earlier, please read the WPs relavent to fiction series as well as previous discussions regarding the general topic. I wish you luck in all your future editing endeavors. Fox816 (talk) 04:55, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

text: I dont think there are any really deep meanings to the characters i mean the director of blood + didn't explain his show on Adultswim.com like paranoia agent's director did. but if i had to speclate i whould say that saya, kai, and riku are based on janet, tito, and michael jackson respectivly. Deanostrodamus the Mystical 13:14, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Special:Contributions/Deanostrodamus| Deanostrodamus]] needs help! 

message: Some of the character sections need to be pared down a bit, particularly the less major characters.  All of the sections are in heavy need of citations. At the minimal, citations from the episodes are needed (see List of Trinity Blood characters for an example of episode cites used to support the character descriptions).  
Also, there are far too many images in this article, and they will likely get removed per the new effort to enforce the fair use policies (which require minimal usage).  I'd strongly suggest finding group images that can be used to replace the individual images.  I'm pretty sure a group image of Saya and her family could be found fairly easily, as well as one with Diva and her Chevaliers. I've seen several anime and television show articles hit already, where those not in compliance have ALL of their images stripped out, so let's be proactive and fix the problem before that happens. :) AnmaFinotera 11:58, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it is a reminder of the MOS, the notability policy, and over all Wikipedia guidelines.  If you choose to disregard them, then any such articles unnecessarily created will be sent to AfD and I will do so myself if no one beats me too it.  Inidvidual character articles for a single series are completely unnecessary and do not meet the requirements for article creation.  The ones that were already created are under AfD now. AnmaFinotera 15:32, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "Inidvidual character articles for a single series are completely unnecessary"? You've apparently never seen the Bleach articles. --Eruhildo 18:32, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have and a similar discussion is occurring there because it also needs clean up.  At least Bleach can make a slightly better case from the sheer insane length of both the anime and manga series.  Blood+ is done, only 50 episodes, and easily covered in a single article. Also, see WP:OTHERSTUFF.  AnmaFinotera 20:26, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not disagreeing with you on that - I just think you shouldn't make such a blanket statement and apply it to everything. I agree that most of the character descriptions need major clean up to meet standards, and as for the pics - I'll upload some group shots when I have some time. --Eruhildo 20:47, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Wow, the article looks a lot better. I kind of miss some stuff, but it really needed to go. As for Joel Goldschmidt, however, I think his part should stay in as his actions were the cause of the entire series. Maybe that's not enough to make him notable, but we can probably find something about him that's notable. --Eruhildo (talk) 22:40, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks :)  I agree on Joel, which is why I incorporated him into the Red Shield intro section, plus mentions in the main article and Saya & Diva's sections. I don't think he needs a separate listing, though, I could see it both ways. AnmaFinotera (talk) 22:44, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  More Clean Up 

message: There used to be a page for minor characters from different locations around the world ("Vietnam locals," "Russian locals," etc.) I don't see a link to the page anymore, so I'm not sure if it still exists and someone just inadvertently edited out a link to it, or if the characters were just deleted from the main characters page, or what... Obviously they don't need their own pages, but I see no reason not to even mention that these characters existed... People like Kaori, Min, Mui, Elizabeta, etc.... not necessarily hugely important to the overall story, but certainly important to individual story arcs, and important on a personal level to the main characters... Teknomage (talk) 19:46, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Such minor characters are not notable enough for inclusion in their own list (hence the page being deleted), and they do not need to be covered here.  Wikipedia isn't intended to be a full show guide, but encyclopedic coverage.  As such, only the significant and major characters are covered, and only the major plots points rather than giving the full blow by blow.  Those "local" characters were not significant to the over all story, and are adequately covered by their mentions in the episode summaries. AnmaFinotera (talk) 19:50, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, as inconvenient as I may find that, I also find it understandable. Except for the fact that some such characters aren't mentioned at all in the episode summaries, either. Teknomage (talk) 20:05, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, the episode summaries are something of a work in progress.  You can probably tell where I started redoing them at, then Cartoon Network stopped airing reruns on weekdays so unless someone else jumps in, I won't be able to do the earlier episodes until the DVDs come out in a few months :( AnmaFinotera (talk) 20:09, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Locals 

message: Collectonian asked me to site my claim that Amshel and Solomon are not brothers, so here it goes:
According to the timeline on the official site, Amshel becomes a chevalier no later than 1883. It also says that Solomon became a chevalier in 1917. That's 34 years difference. While that's not too long to rule out brothership, SAYA was brought to the Zoo in 1832. At that time, Amshel and Joel looked about the same age (20 something or early 30's), so it's probably safe to assume they were born in the early 1800's. Joel dies in 1883 at age 72. Amshel certainly doesn't look 72 (more like 40's or 50's I think). We know from both the timeline and the anime that Joel became aware that chiropteran blood had special properties in 1863. It could be that Amshel became a chevalier then. But I'm getting into theory now, back to Amshel relationship with Solomon.
Solomon looks like he's in his early 20's. Even if he were born in the late 1880's, there would have to be at least 60-70 years between them. It would be impossible for them to have the same human parents, though I do believe they are probably related in some way. Solomon might call him "Nii-san" because they are cousins, or perhaps because Amshel doesn't age he always seems like a brother, or something. Anyway, I'm pretty sure we can rule out a brother relationship. Oh yeah, I translated the timeline a while back as I was looking to reincorporate it back into the main article. It's here for those who can't read Japanese. --Eruhildo (talk) 04:24, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortunately, making that determination falls under original research.  In the series, they are referring to each other as brother (in both the Japanese and official English dub).  Unfortunately, they way they are using it makes it hard to tell if they mean brother as "children of Diva" or if they mean brother in some other sense. Looking at the timeline, though, your change makes more sense.  Last night's episode didn't really make any indication that Amshel had been a chevalier that long, hence my questioning it.AnmaFinotera (talk) 04:45, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Based off EP40, Solomon recalls the memory of when he was turned into a chevalier. He called Amshel his brother before being turned and even yet before knowing of Diva's existance. I can't remember it exactly but they're conversation in the dungeon may clarify things about any familial relationship. Fox816 (talk) 05:32, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, that's where I got confused as well.  He seemed to consider Amshel his brother before he met Diva, which is why I thought maybe adopted brother or something like that.  I wonder if the anime will finish explaining or if we will have to wait for the novels and manga. AnmaFinotera (talk) 05:43, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No, the anime never explains their exact relationship, which is why I thought it better to remove the mention of it entirely. I figured it was just a sign of closeness as it's not uncommon in Japan for relatives to call each other by "Nii" and "Nee" even if they're not siblings. I know most of what I mentioned before is OR, but surely there's enough non-OR evidence to say logically that they're probably not brothers, right? It's not like we have to go out and say "they're not brothers" in the article. I just think we shouldn't say out right that they are brothers. --Eruhildo (talk) 03:03, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The thing is, the anime doesn't explain the relationship and the English dub is specifically translating it as brother.  Maybe they just didn't investigate to be sure that's what they really are, but right now the primary sources we have are the original and the English.  While Nii-san can be used to indicate closeness, it can also indicate relationship.  Unless and until something contradicts it explicitly, we are obligated to go with what the anime uses.  When the novels and manga start coming out, hopefully they will clarify it which can then be used as the source to expand the article :) AnmaFinotera (talk) 03:10, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with you, but I still don't see why we must explicitly say they're brothers. Can't we just leave out that detail? --Eruhildo (talk) 01:05, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Because that's not being neutral, and actively choosing to ignore something actively noted in the store. We can't inject our own views or try to guess what was really meant, nor leave out what we disagree with. So, foror now, yes, we must go with what the series says, unless a reliable source says otherwise or the series, novels, or manga later clarify or explain.  AnmaFinotera (talk) 03:28, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm.. ok, I guess that makes sense. I'll drop the issue. --Eruhildo (talk) 17:39, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Amshel and Solomon 

message: The section on Haji implies that he was obtained by Joel as a mate for Saya. I think that's an incomplete picture since in one of the last episodes (48?) I recall Amshel telling Haji that he was envious of him because Joel intended to use Haji as a mate for Diva. As Joel's assistant, Amshel is a credible witness. But this revelation is confusing because Haji was encouraged as a boy to befriend Saya. Perhaps Joel wanted Haji for both sisters. But Hagi knew nothing of Diva before her release, so I conjecture that either Amshel interfered with the contact between Diva and Haji, or that Joel had plans to introduce Haji to Diva later, or that on meeting Hagi, Joel changed his mind. Oh God, why I am even thinking about this crap.  123.51.3.24 (talk) 01:24, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm pretty sure Joel specifically said he intended Haji to be a mate for Saya in one of the flashback episodes. At the time, they didn't know anything about chevaliers only being able to impregnate the opposite queen. Amshel isn't exactly known for his truth telling, so I think Haji's memories are more trusth worthy and Amshel was probably just trying to  throw Haji off kilter. And LOL, that's a sign its a good series that you start thinking about all that :P AnmaFinotera (talk) 02:50, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I'd say pretty much the same thing. I don't remember that part real well, but I think Amshel was saying that had it not been for Riku becoming a chevalier, Haji would have been the only one Diva could have children with (however, she didn't want to). --Eruhildo (talk) 20:56, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Haji's purpose 

message: I've noticed various editors have been switching Ghee's gender back and forth lately. Ghee was the blone dude with long hair and sunglasses, right? That Schiff was a guy. I just thought this should be cleared up so we don't have the same edits being made over and over again. --Eruhildo (talk) 03:22, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I couldn't figure it out at first, but I think I found an answer on a fan site.  According to it, Ghee is a male in the original, but is changed to female in the dub. So those, like me, who've only seen the dub on CN are thinking she's female and have been changing it back, while I guess if you've seen the original through whatever method, you know he's male and have been correcting. LOL.  Weee...I'll add a note to the profile.AnmaFinotera (talk) 04:02, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Ghee is the spelling seen in the credits, so you need to provide a reliable source for your supposition that the correct English spelling is Guy and not Ghee.  Please stop changing the list until you can provide that. AnmaFinotera (talk) 02:35, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not a supposition. The credits have it wrong then. The Japanese characters and promotional material spells it the correct way Guy. --Slotedpig (talk) 02:50, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: We are using the official English spellings in the list, not the Japanese. Please provide links to the Japanese characters and promotional materials you mentioned. If they show Ghee, a note can be added similar as to was done with Haji.  He isn't a major enough character to have to do much more than that. AnmaFinotera (talk) 02:53, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

text: No, the Japanese characters are  so you can't say it's spelled the French way with the Japanese characters. As for the English spelling, the only one I've ever seen for this character is the one used here. We're not supposed to use the "proper" spelling, just the common one. --Eruhildo (talk) 05:03, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

text:  would be the French pronunciation name Guy. It's spelled the same in English and French. I also point out that the wikipedia article for Jun Fukuyama lists his part as Guy not Ghee, and places like ANN that have the official cast and credits list Jun Fukuyama's part as Guy not Ghee.  --Slotedpig (talk) 16:23, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: ANN also shows his name as Ghee in the English cast section.  Other Wikipedia articles are not a reliable source. AnmaFinotera (talk) 16:37, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Which is the incorrect spelling of the name Guy. I know you won't change it, but Ghee is not common way of spelling it either. I've never seen anyone spell it that way until I came to wikipedia. --Slotedpig (talk) 19:16, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who is Ghee? 

message: Hving a look at :Image:BloodDiva.jpg, I noticed that it still links to an article... List of Blood characters (note that it's missing the plus). Given that that article is a nearly exact copy of this one, I looked at its history, and it seems that it was inadvertently created on January 30 by  in an attempt to revert vandalism. It hasn't been edited since, and nothing but some maintenance pages link to it, so it can be safely deleted. —Dinoguy1000 17:58, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've tagged it for housekeeping CSD after adding a note to that affect.AnmaFinotera (talk) 18:55, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

text: As an update, the list was blanked and redirected here, which also works. AnmaFinotera (talk) 02:44, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Eh, that works too... I probably should have just done that to begin with, but it didn't occur to me. =P —Dinoguy1000 18:12, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

text: I'm a little confused with what's going on. When I tagged the image, I noticed it still said this article linked to it. What did y'all do to change this? I'd like to know so I can fix it myself the next time I come across something like this. --Eruhildo (talk) 18:26, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Close, but not quite. It actually still linked to List of Blood characters, which was inadvertently created by  in an attempt to revert vandalism, as I stated above. At first, I couldn't tell the difference either, then I noticed that the article title lacked a plus sign after the word "Blood". Hope this clears it up for you... —Dinoguy1000 18:41, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Oooh, I see. That's tricky. Thanks for explaining it. --Eruhildo (talk) 03:53, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[List of Blood characters]] 

message: Okay, i just uploaded a pic contains Diva's Chevaliers, guess it's better than the old one. OgasawaraSachiko (Contact me here) 12:13, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree. While the new one does show all the faces, it is also difficult to see several due to the heavy shadowing. The anime picture is clearer. . The uploaded picture also currently violates FUR by being too large, and the source is not specific enough and seems questionable. AnmaFinotera (talk) 05:19, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, i just uploaded a new and brighter version for that one including Diva and her Chevaliers. OgasawaraSachiko (Contact me here) 12:39, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, but it still needs to be discussed here FIRST. If you look above, you will see all of the images in the list have been discussed and consensus reached so please do the same and don't just change the list. AnmaFinotera (talk) 05:58, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

text: In terms of identifying the chevalier it's better than the current one. However, with the odd depiction of Diva in the background, it seems rather off putting. The quality of the scan isn't very good either. There's obvious glare and some wrinkling. As for the source the picture was taken from a scan gallery on the website Animepaper, presumebly uploaded by a user from a Blood+ Calendar they had purchased. Fox816 (talk) 06:29, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

text: The new image is odd looking, and while it may be better in terms of showing the faces, I think it is less attractive.  Also, as Fox notes, the quality isn't very good an it was taken from a uploader website, so its source may or may not be accurate. Also, OgasawaraSachiko, if you change the pic again, please uploaded under a new name and post a link so the conversation doesn't get confusing.AnmaFinotera (talk) 06:44, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

text: If it didn't look like a grainy poster scan, I think I would go for it. Though I have to admit, Diva does look rather... odd. --Eruhildo (talk) 20:27, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Chevalier Pic 

message: All of Diva's chevalier paragraphs begin by saying "so-and-so is the Xth Goldsmith brother."  However, this order does not appear to be supported by any references and no order is given in the series beyond attempts to extrapolate based on the flash backs shown for some characters. Additionally, only two of the chevaliers, the actual two brothers Amshel and Solomon, are really Goldsmiths. It seems to me that the order is too OR and those statements should be removed as they can not be sourced.  Thoughts? AnmaFinotera (talk) 19:44, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Check out this timeline I was working on a while back. Before you started editing the Blood+ articles, there was a timeline on the main article, but it was removed in favor of prose. However, the timeline has data that is not mentioned in the series. I've been meaning to merge that data into the articles, but I haven't had time. The timeline is based off the timeline at the official site  and I provided a rough translation. --Eruhildo (talk) 15:50, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, cool. That can be used to help fill out some of these sections quite nicely :) AnmaFinotera (talk) 15:54, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

text: I've incorporated some of the time line into various sections, and and gave Diva and her chevalier sections some much needed clean up. I also removed all references to order, as the timeline doesn't give two chevalier's conversion dates, and the ambiguity of Nathan makes it impossible to declare when/where he was converted. Perhaps the manga or novels will be able to make it clearer later though. AnmaFinotera (talk) 02:28, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Goldsmith Brother Order 

message: Ok, I've finally uploaded a group shot of Saya and some of her friends, but I don't know where to put it. It has Lewis, Julia, David, Haji, Saya, Kai, Mao, and Akihiro. --Eruhildo (talk) 16:53, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would say it should probably go near the top of the article. It would fill the space to the right of the ToC quite nicely. But then, I'm not too familiar with the MOS. --Dinoguy1000 19:30, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Yay!  Nice pic too! :) It does, however, need to be resized to 300 pixels on one side to fit fair use guidelines.  I've put in the article where Dino suggested.  What do y'all think? AnmaFinotera (talk) 20:44, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It looks pretty good, though admittedly doesn't fill as much space as I'd hoped... Oh well, what can you do about it? ^^;; --Dinoguy1000 21:34, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

text: I'll resize it and reupload it soon - I don't know that much about the fair use rules yet. Could I make the vertical edge the 300px side? I think if the picture was about 400-450px wide in the article it would look better. It would at least fill the space more. --Eruhildo (talk) 02:26, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Yes, basically it just needs the shortest side to be at 300 :) AnmaFinotera (talk) 04:55, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, done. Thanks for your help. ^_^ Does anyone know which episode might have all or most of the chevaliers together? I don't really want to use the b&w photos that were shown early in the series. I was hoping for a better shot. --Eruhildo (talk) 10:24, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't think of any episode that has any, unfortunately. Somewhere around episode 22-23, they were all together, but I can't remember if they were all on screen at the same time.  We may have to wait and see if Sony uses one in the DVD releases for cover art or as an extra. :( AnmaFinotera (talk) 11:07, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Cool! I've put in the article near Amshel's section. I've removed the non-free tag since I think adding this one in place of the individual Chevalier pics has addressed the problem :)  Thanks! AnmaFinotera (talk) 04:26, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Awesome. Hey, do you think we should have a pic of Moses, Karman, and Lulu together? They're not in the pic that's there now and they're fairly main characters. Plus there's lots of times that they're together so it would be easy to take a shot. Just wonderin'. --Eruhildo (talk) 04:25, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I think that would be very good.  They are the main Schiff seen for most of the series, so their pic would be even more important the others. :) AnmaFinotera (talk) 04:28, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello, everyone. I think that a shot of Moses, Lulu, and Karman together can be found on the Fourth (and final) opening of the series, and in Eps. 35 and 37. BTW, there’s a shot of a photo of Saya with her “adopted” family on the series first closing as well. It shows how Saya and Kai looked like at the beginning of the series and also shows Riku and George as well. 216.196.213.141 (talk) 20:11, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I was going to use the Schiff shot in the final OP, but the stupid subs were in the way - blast I wish I had raws. But thank you very much anyway. I have taken several shots from a few episodes but was wondering: does anyone prefer/mind weapons or no weapons, close-ups (faces) or full-body shots, or subtitles? Or do you want me to just upload them all, pick through them, and have the ones we don't want deleted? Well, just let me know; I should be online again within the next few days. --Eruhildo (talk) 08:30, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No worries...that one can probably wait till the DVDs come out later this spring. :)  I don't really have any preferences on weapons/no, so long as each person is distinguishable, though no subs is better. AnmaFinotera (talk) 08:39, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Hmm... It's a shame that James had his back to the camera in that shot... --Dinoguy1000 00:21, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes indeed, but take what you can get I say. I watched from episode 22 to 35 almost straight before I found that shot. Karl died soon after, so no more group shots. Though I don't know if they were all together before that, but I think they weren't. --Eruhildo (talk) 08:30, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The season 4 opening seems to possible have a group shot, but it flashed by so fast I couldn't see if Karl was in it or not. It did have them all facing the camera though.  AnmaFinotera (talk) 05:34, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think it showed them all at once or there were credits over it, otherwise I would have nabbed it. Plus I don't think Karl was in it (I think he was dead by then after all). --Eruhildo (talk) 06:31, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe Karl wasn't in it...it flew by kinda fast and I was half watching.  I'm sure it had all the living ones, at least, though, and no credits for a moment. AnmaFinotera (talk) 06:37, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

text: It's best if the group shot gets the characters identifiable by face atleast. That'll save organization without having an individual image placed in to make up for it. Fox816 (talk) 05:40, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, but sometimes that's impossible. --Eruhildo (talk) 06:31, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Cool, I've replaced the other Schiff image.  I was going to add, but with Betabot running around stripping images out of character lists, I thought it best to keep it down to just one for that section. Speaking of, do you think you could find an image of Diva and Riku?  That would let us replace two images with one since he's missing from the group shot. AnmaFinotera (talk) 06:40, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There’s a shot in the 1st closing with “early” Saya, “early” Kai, Riku and George, as well as a shot of a photo of them together somewhere between Eps. 1 & 15. There’s also a shot, in the final OP where you see a photo of George and Riku that appears in between Saya and Diva (in Riku’s image) with both of them standing on either side of the screen. Maybe someone can also find a split-screen with both images of Diva somewhere.216.196.213.141 (talk) 19:44, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

text: I'll take care of it, though it may take me a few days. Finding a shot of Riku and George together will be easy. Also, I'm pretty sure I can get a shot with Diva and James together. That should wrap everything up, nee? --Eruhildo (talk) 03:01, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it will :) Thanks for all your hard work on the images!  Its been so nice to work on the images with such friendly discussion instead of some of the tooth and nail fights on other character lists :) AnmaFinotera (talk) 03:17, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't I know it! Ok, images update: I finally got around to finding a pic of George and Riku. Sorry it took me so long - I got kind of busy. As for the picture of James and Diva: does anyone know what episode might have a good shot. If not, it will probably be a while (as in months) before I go looking for one. --Eruhildo (talk) 23:50, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Awesome!  Oh man...there was an episode which I think had a good pic, but I can't remember which one it was.  He was kneeled before her kissing her hand...it was one of the "mommy" episodes.  I think it was 35, since that's the one I have sourced for him carrying the Diva locket and that he considers her to be "Mama" (that still gives me giggles). AnmaFinotera (talk) 01:30, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh yeah, I saw that episode when I was looking for the pic of the chevaliers. I'm not certain it showed both of their faces in the same shot but I'll check it out. Hopefully I can do something with it. Thanks so much, that really helps me a lot. --Eruhildo (talk) 18:46, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Found pic of Diva and James, and added it to the article. Got to run to class. See y'all. --Eruhildo (talk) 17:00, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Awesome! Thanks again! AnmaFinotera (talk) 17:02, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Gosh, I stay offline for a couple days and so much happens. I'm sad to see pics go too, but I think the article looks a little better now. At least we still have pics of all the main characters except for Riku. I guess we'll just have to go without a picture of him. --Eruhildo (talk) 03:59, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah...I'll check the extras on the box set to see if maybe there is a promo group shot with every, but if not we'll have to just leave poor Riku out.  I'm a little disappointed to see that early reviews are showing the Blood+ DVDs are using dubtitles, :( but otherwise the Part 1 sounds sweet. We'll eventually need to start working in references and content from the novels and manga as well.  So far I have the volume 1 manga, which has some dramatic differences in things. I'm gonna try to get the summary posted to the main article later this week. AnmaFinotera (talk) 04:21, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I hate to say it, but it may just be better to just limit the scenes shown to just shots that appear after the one year time skip. Hopefully, the rest of the pics aren't deleted.--Halls452 (talk) 19:27, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep.  I think we'll be fine with the four, since there are three separate groups of characters, and only Diva's is requiring two because she never is seen with all her chevaliers at once. AnmaFinotera (talk) 19:29, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

text: By following the image guidelines, and focusing on the major characters. If necessary, a group showing five is better than two showing three and four respectively. We must keep the number of images as small as possible. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 21:22, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  New pic 

message: I think we've done great so far.  We've gone from 23 little images to 7!  Almost there, we just have a few individual images left to deal with.  Maybe we can, as the anon user noted, find a combo of both of Diva's forms (I want to say there is one in the Season 4 opening, but can't remember at the moment).  Alternatively, Diva and James, since he's the one with his back to us in the group shot? One of the recent eps had him kneeling in front of her in her "Riku" form. A combo of Riku and George would be great.  George doesn't have an image right now, but a group would be better than a single of Riku. AnmaFinotera (talk) 19:18, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll take care of it, though it may take me a few days. Finding a shot of Riku and George together will be easy. Also, I'm pretty sure I can get a shot with Diva and James together. That should wrap everything up, nee? --Eruhildo (talk) 03:01, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it will :) Thanks for all your hard work on the images!  Its been so nice to work on the images with such friendly discussion instead of some of the tooth and nail fights on other character lists :) AnmaFinotera (talk) 03:17, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't I know it! Ok, images update: I finally got around to finding a pic of George and Riku. Sorry it took me so long - I got kind of busy. As for the picture of James and Diva: does anyone know what episode might have a good shot. If not, it will probably be a while (as in months) before I go looking for one. --Eruhildo (talk) 23:50, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Awesome!  Oh man...there was an episode which I think had a good pic, but I can't remember which one it was.  He was kneeled before her kissing her hand...it was one of the "mommy" episodes.  I think it was 35, since that's the one I have sourced for him carrying the Diva locket and that he considers her to be "Mama" (that still gives me giggles). AnmaFinotera (talk) 01:30, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh yeah, I saw that episode when I was looking for the pic of the chevaliers. I'm not certain it showed both of their faces in the same shot but I'll check it out. Hopefully I can do something with it. Thanks so much, that really helps me a lot. --Eruhildo (talk) 18:46, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Found pic of Diva and James, and added it to the article. Got to run to class. See y'all. --Eruhildo (talk) 17:00, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Awesome! Thanks again! AnmaFinotera (talk) 17:02, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Gosh, I stay offline for a couple days and so much happens. I'm sad to see pics go too, but I think the article looks a little better now. At least we still have pics of all the main characters except for Riku. I guess we'll just have to go without a picture of him. --Eruhildo (talk) 03:59, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah...I'll check the extras on the box set to see if maybe there is a promo group shot with every, but if not we'll have to just leave poor Riku out.  I'm a little disappointed to see that early reviews are showing the Blood+ DVDs are using dubtitles, :( but otherwise the Part 1 sounds sweet. We'll eventually need to start working in references and content from the novels and manga as well.  So far I have the volume 1 manga, which has some dramatic differences in things. I'm gonna try to get the summary posted to the main article later this week. AnmaFinotera (talk) 04:21, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I hate to say it, but it may just be better to just limit the scenes shown to just shots that appear after the one year time skip. Hopefully, the rest of the pics aren't deleted.--Halls452 (talk) 19:27, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep.  I think we'll be fine with the four, since there are three separate groups of characters, and only Diva's is requiring two because she never is seen with all her chevaliers at once. AnmaFinotera (talk) 19:29, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

text: By following the image guidelines, and focusing on the major characters. If necessary, a group showing five is better than two showing three and four respectively. We must keep the number of images as small as possible. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 21:22, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Progress

message: Mind you I've just finished watching the series in English, so forgive me if this was an addition to the dub track not found in the original.  In one episode, Nathan Mahler speaks of being older than Saya and Diva (episode 49 I believe), and also speaks about their mother, and about Diva's prophecy.  Then consider in the end when he speaks of Diva's blood having lost its power as if he'd known all along, along with the fact that he's clearly seen in the end having survived a brutal slash from Saya's blood coated sword, and it all hints to Nathan being Saya and Diva's mother's chevalier (thus his immunity to Saya's blood).  This also goes far to explaining why, though he has affection for Diva, he is so "tranquil" as the current article phrases it.  This is just me theorizing, but I suppose it could be possible that his true past was a secret from even Diva and Amshel (as in, he would've acted as though Diva turned him into a chevalier).  Also forgive me if this has already been discussed long ago, but I'd think at the very least his mentions of Saya and Diva's mother and its implications should be relevant to his section.--NagakuraShin (talk) 09:29, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It has been discussed, however as the way it is worded doesn't make it clear for sure, we can't do much beyond mention his saying it. I plan to work on Diva and the chevalier sections some more later today, after getting some sleep ;) and will encorporate his conversation with Amshel into the text. AnmaFinotera (talk) 09:48, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

text: No, as Wikipedia is not a forum, so the only discussion on talk page must be about the article and improving it. There was a good discussion on the possibilities on some anime websites, like AnimeOnDVD.com. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 21:24, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, I blew it. So, we demand to add information about Nathan.MagnusLordN (talk) 15:56, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You can demand, but without actual reliable sourcing backing it up, it won't be met. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 17:15, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

text: Again, its all original research and personal opinion. Unless it says something specifically in the novelization, it will just be up to viewers to make their own decisions and it won't be included here. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 02:52, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nathan Mahler's hinted past 

message: Surveying the whole of the series, there are numerous references to the Rothschild banking family of 18th- and 19th-century Europe. "Red Shield" refers both to the meaning of the name Rothschild and the emblem of the family and enterprise. Likewise, Diva's major chevaliers are named after Mayer Rothschild's five sons, Amschel, Salomon, Nathan, Calmann and James.
I've watched Blood+, but I haven't examined the series very deeply, and I wouldn't be confident that I'd get the details right; so I'd really appreciate it if someone could integrate this information into the article- and particularly if someone were to go over the available historical information on the Rothschilds and point out any other parallels Blood+ draws with the Goldschmidts/Goldsmiths.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Asterphage (talk • contribs) 07:32, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, but no. Some of that was in there, but was removed. Unless reliable sources regarding those connections exist, it will remain out as it constitutes nothing but original research and personal opinion/guesses. Wikipedia is not a place for self-research and synthesis.AnmaFinotera (talk) 14:38, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

text: What Collectonian said. While I agree everything points to such a relationship, we have no sources for it, so it's just original research. --Eruhildo (talk) 20:21, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Character name origins 

message: Ok I added Gas to the schiff so if anyone can adjust any mistakes I made, add more, or add a picture I would be very grateful.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.179.8.189 (talk) 23:13, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: He's already been removed. Per previous discussions, he is not notable nor major enough for mentioning. AnmaFinotera (talk) 23:16, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

text: No. The article is only for major characters. He is mentioned where relevant in others sections, and that is all. He is not notable in the series at all. If he ends up being more notable in the manga or novels, it can be revisited, but he was not notable in the anime. AnmaFinotera (talk) 04:11, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added Das to the Schiff 

message: Hello, this is by far the most necesary contribution. This article needs reliable references and/or sources to give it a rate of 5 stars and a longer introducion. Please give me a hand.MagnusLordN (talk) 15:51, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no such thing as a "rate of 5 starts". The list is being worked on. It has reliable references, most are just primary ones. As the DVD sets are only just now coming out, there are few reviews. I'm waiting for my copy of the first box set. I believe it has some production info in the extras that may help with some fleshing out. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 17:14, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Points to improve 

message: I think there should be a reception section that states what the reviewers or a majority of the fans thought of the characters and possibly the voice work.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.184.88.239 (talk) 02:28, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Reception will probably be covered in Blood+ for awhile, unless/until there are sourced, reliable reviews that have such specific stuff in them. Fan opinions are not something we include in articles, unless reliable sourced somewhere else. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 02:32, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Reception Section 

message: So, currently Van's name here is spelled Van Argiano. In the novels, its Van Argeno. The novels also spell Cinq Flèches as Cinq Flèche, sans the s at the end. Anyone know what the subtitles have in the DVDs? I haven't had a chance to crack mine open yet. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 06:18, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  More Naming Fun 

message: I've just reviewed episode 37, there was a part Solomon said that Carl was turned into a Chevalier against his will. Was it true? OgasawaraSachiko (talk) 11:18, 1 December  2008 (UTC)
:Yes, that seems to be true. It is stated in the anime, as well as in the novels. Specifically I believe it is in novel two where it is said that Carl is the only one of Diva's Chevaliers who did not come to her voluntarily. It might account for his semi-insanity. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 15:09, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Carl 

message: I think this list should probably be reorganized into "protagonist/antagonist/supporting" to be less in-universe and clearer to readers who are not familiar with the series. Under this organization, the list would be something like this (exact locations can be discussed if over all idea is approved):
;Protagonists
# Saya Otonashi
# Hagi
# Kai Miyagusuku
;Antagonists
# Diva
# Amshel Goldsmith
# Solomon Goldsmith
# Karl Fei-Ong
# James Ironside
# Nathan Mahler
;Supporting characters
# Aston Collins
# Akihiro Okamura
# David
# Joel Goldschmidt VI
# Julia Silverstein
# Lewis
# Mao Jahana
# Riku Miyagusuku
# Van Argiano
# The Schiff
## Moses
## Lulu
## Karman
## Irène
# George Miyagusuku
;Minor characters
# Grigori
# Martin Bormann
A section giving a summary of the organizations, Red Shield and Cinq Flèches, could also be added as part of the over all list above the character listing. Thoughts? -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 06:13, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds good to me, except that it could probably be argued that David should be listed under "Protagonists". —Dinoguy1000 19:25, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I was back and forth on him :) -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 21:57, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It looks good, but the support and minor characters could be joined into other characters to avoid being subjective.Tintor2 (talk) 22:02, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I mostly called those three minor characters because two are long dead before the series started and really shouldn't even be mentioned at all (IMHO) beyond Diva's section, and George dies in like the 3rd or 4th episode :P -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 22:06, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: With the exception of George (who appeared in lots of flashbacks), the others are very minor (In fact, I dont remember who were they). I guess we could mention Grigori and Martin Bormann in character they are a bit related. If not, they could be simply removed.Tintor2 (talk) 22:11, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: They are Diva's other two Chevaliers, who were killed by Saya in flashbacks or in like a 2 second mention :P I agree though, could move George to supporting and drop those two. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 22:14, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I remember Grigori, but not Martin... That being said, their mentions in the episode list should be sufficient (especially considering... umm... what's-her-name (Saya's roommate at the boarding school) and Mui don't get sections here, and they're both arguably more important than Grigori and Martin). —Dinoguy1000 19:55, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds like an agreement, so I'm being semi-bold and dropping both (again)! :-D -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 19:59, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks good... —Dinoguy1000 22:14, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reoganization