Talk:Gwenllian of Wales

message: The more I consider this issue, the more convinced I am that the "Princess" is wrong. It seems to me that at her own time, (almost) no one used the title "Princess" of her.
It is probable that only in recent centuries, some nationalists and/or romantics have designated that title to her. As sort of "last representative of the welsh sovereigns". And, had she been called Princess by some in her own lifetime (which is not very probable), that would have meant only a pretension to the throne of a fallen state. 
It is clear that in those times, the title Prince/ss was not used even of members of royal families. There were no "Prince Edmund, Earl of Kent" or likes, that sort of usage began only centuries later. As a non-reigning daughter of a reigning prince of Wales, Gwenllian would not have been called princess in those times. 
Here in Wikipedia, we do not endorse pretenders in article headings, nor do we use titles that are anachronistic. All this should be remembered even in the text of this article, but the most important thing is that the heading should not contain the "Princess". I will remove it as soon as I have considered what would be an appropriate heading with sufficient power of disambiguation. Arrigo 17:44, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, this is correct.  Whoever moved her out of the original article obviously did so for disambiguation purposes.  It wasn't a bad choice, because the activities of the Princess Gwenllian Society have given her a high profile in the past ten years.  However, in my book I refer to her as either "Gwenllian of Wales" or "Gwenllian of Gwynedd" to differentiate her from the other Gwenllian (who was, as you've probably noted, equally entitled to be called a "princess").  I would suggest that one of these alternatives would be preferable to "Gwenllian ferch Llywelyn", which is the only other obvious possibility. Deb 18:28, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Princess in heading and in text 

message: RESPONSE
Dwnn, L. 'The Heraldic Visitation of Wales', Vol II., 1846 pp. 24.
The above reference records the visitations of Wales transcribed from original manuscripts between 1586 and 1613 by Lewis Dwnn, Deputy Herald at Arms and is the official record for pedigrees.
It says:
Mam Elnor oedd Katrin vh. Llen ab Gr: ab Llen ab Yeroth frwyndwn ab Owein Gwynedd.
Mam Kathrin oedd Elnor vh. Symont Montffortt iarll Lester.
Mam Elnor, vh. Sion brenhin Lloiger.
It couldn't be clearer that Catheriene was the daughter of Llywelyn ap Gruffydd.
Page 54 of the above reference gives more information on the associated pedigree.
At the moment there is a lot of published mis-information on this topic and it must be clarified.
RESPONSE  — Preceding unsigned comment added by NetworkAuthority (talk • contribs) 09:13, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed the sentence about Catherine ferch Llywelyn. It was known when Glyndwr's ancestry was being done, researchers tried to connect him to Llywelyn ap Gruffudd mistakenly instead of Llywelyn ap Iorwerth. Catherine daughter of Llywelyn II is most likely fabricated and cannot be proven. Cltjames (talk) 16:23, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Catherine Ferch Llywelyn