Talk:Adolf Hitler/Archive 4

message: This extract is suspicious too:
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To consolidate his regime, Hitler needed the neutrality of the Army and the industrial magnates. They were alarmed by the "socialist" component of National Socialism, which was represented by the mainly working-class Brownshirts of Ernst Röhm's SA. To remove this barrier to acceptance of his regime, Hitler unleashed his lieutenant Himmler to murder Röhm and dozens of other real and potential enemies during the night of June 29-June 30, 1934. The event is remembered as the Night of the Long Knives.
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Was the Night of the Long Knives a result from considerations about industrial magnates ? Himmler planned the whole thing didn't he ? What does Himmler care about the industrial magnate's views ? 
He was interested in winning the power struggle inside the regime, that's what I think.
Is this again a sentence from one of the "Glasnost" readers, or does anyone have material to support it ? Otherwise we should cut it. --217.228.213.50 10:26, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Night of the long knives 

message: Can somebody here who knows a lot about Hitler and Nazism please look at this article. I personally believe that about 80% of the article is nonsense. Mysticism_in_Nazi_Germany Thanks in advance. Andries 21:41, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Acccuracy dispute about mysticism in Nazi Germany article

message: Here is a suggested opening paragraph by Danny:
:Adolf Hitler (April 20, 1889—April 30, 1945) was the führer of the National Socialist German Workers' Party and of of Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1945. In that capacity he was Chancellor of Germany, head of government, and state. A gifted orator with an intense personal presence, Hitler is regarded as one of the most significant leaders of world history. The military-industrial complex he fostered pulled Germany out of the post-World War I economic crisis and, at its height, controlled the greater part of Europe. His invasion of Poland in 1939 is generally given as the start of World War II. The brutal embrace of total war by the Axis and Allied powers in that war resulted in the savage destruction of Europe and the deaths of millions of people. The racial policy he enforced led to the Holocaust and the death and displacement of millions more. In the end he reportedly committed suicide in his bunker beneath Berlin, with Germany in ruins around him.
:This is fine. 172 01:44, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I suggest this, but I'll take my time on putting it on for obvious reasons. 1) I think it was a bit of a long paragraph, 2) I think "enforced" is a bit of a stretch, since he hasn't been shown to have personally carried anything out, and 3) I think the Red army needs mention (and credit) for being where they were, when they were. Sam [Spade] 01:58, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd be very interested in documentation that he knew about the particulars of the holocaust. From what I have seen and read, he comes across as isolated and fed only information he wanted to hear. I always assumed that due to Führerprinzip, the higher ups expected independance and results from their subordinates, and saw question asking, or a need for micromanagement from below as a sign of gross incompentance. Therefore I wouldn't expect Hitler to be aquainted w the gory particulars of the "final solution". Sam [Spade] 05:59, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Intro

message: I do not have my books (Ian Kershaw) from the library anymore but I read from the following source that he had a good state of duty.  Unless you can prove or at least indicate othwerise I think I have the right to revert your edits. I also read in The Meaning of Hitler (Not a scholarly reference but an analysis of Hitler’s life.) by Sebastian Haffner that I do have here that he received an Iron cross. Average rating of this book at amazon.com is five stars based on five reviews! Please create a userid to facilitate the discussion.  Thanks Andries 20:51, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, fortunately, I can read German so I will check soon. But if I remember it well Kershaw wrote that he good service record in WWI (I can not check now). Andries 21:27, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: to 149.225.54.108 Service record in WWI

message: I'm not claiming this is the case, nor am I suggesting the article give credit to the claims, but neither should the article accept without question the soviet account (which Stalin himself did not believe, and which contradicts itself, and common sense, btw). Anyways, here are some links . All that I expect is for the article to remain neutral. Sam [Spade] 23:03, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hitler not dead? 

message: I appologise, I am unfamiliar w SMERSH, and assumed it to be a part of the red army. I do think a link to "red army" is needed in the intro however, as I said above, and seemed to achieve concensus. I'll see what I can do, but if you don't like how I mention "red army", please find another way. I think they are deserving of more credit than the article currently gives. Sam [Spade] 03:04, 28 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[SMERSH]] (Soviet counterintelligence) 

message: I'm not defending Hitler here, but isn't labelling him "a personification of evil" an unnecessary POV remark? I think the "perhaps the most reviled man in history" is a better assesment of his legacy. --Feitclub 19:22, Sep 15, 2004 (UTC)
Do you want to say he's not a personification of evil to the majority of worlds population? GeneralPatton 12:08, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Personification of Evil" 

message: i am really confused about hitler's death. is it truth that he admitted a sucite or he naturally die after big age.
*All the evidence points in the direction of him having committed suicide. There is little to suggest that this is anything but the case. Sjc 09:20, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  I am totally confused about hitler's death matter 

message: I'm making some starts by making the article shorted (needs to be 32kb or below if this is going to be a featured articule). Some text will need to go to subsidiary pages. Jongarrettuk 11:31, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Hoorah. Sam [Spade] 11:37, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)

text: If we make it featured, we will need to consider vandalism, which will only increase in that step. Perhaps locking it down during that time period? -Joseph (Talk) 14:14, 2004 Oct 2 (UTC)
I've now finished my pruning and reordering. It's now the right size. So a note for future editors: Only add something if you also take something away (either deleting it or moving to a new page). Otherwise it will get longer than 32kb again.
I have created a number of new pages where some of the deleted info has gone. Many of these need tidying up! Please help. These articles are: Members of Hitler's cabinet, Hitler in popular culture, Hitler’s political beliefs and Images of Hitler. Other info was either input or already duplicated into existing articles, or of such peripheral interest (if it could be said to be of any interest) that I deleted it.
The article is now all in British English. Previously it was about half US and half UK. I had to get rid of this inconsisency, and on the grounds that Hitler was European, and on the grounds that as I'm British, British English comes more naturally to me, that's the form of English I've gone for. Future editors: Please stick to using British English so that the article is consistent.
Finally, if I've made a mistake and deleted your favourite bit or nugget of information, I apologise. Feel free to reinsert it (as long as you also delete sentences of a similar length to those you add). Jongarrettuk 17:59, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Let's make this a featured article

message: Someone recently made Hitler a disambiguation page. I thought it silly so I changed it back to a redirect, but moved the other bit to Hitler (disambiguation), which is now an orphan (except for the above link). Should anything be done with that disambig page? All the names on it (except for Adolf Lu Hitler Marak, which probably doesn't belong anyway) are at the bottom of this article under Family. Should we keep it as an orphan, delete it, or link to it? -R. fiend 18:35, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Hitler disambiguation

message: I couldn't help but notice that there were numerous edits and reverts over the words "born before sunset". Why is this so controversial? Is there a need to go sparring over this detail? Rickyrab 23:00, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it should stay myself. I think its being opposed on principal, because I assume it is only nazi mystics or oddball astrologers who would care? Whats the deal? Sam [Spade] 23:33, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, it's irrelevant. Go to any other page about a person and it will have the person's date of birth, but not a reference to whether it was daylight when they were born. It just seems silly and unencyclopaedic. Also, it's long enough an article anyway, this is hardly a big issue that makes it worth saying in a short (32kb) article. That's why it gets removed, anyway. You'll have to ask those who add it why they keep adding it.jguk 04:27, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: In addition to being irrelevant and non-encyclopedic, it's also vague, as it could mean just about any daylight hour, and I'm not even sure it's accurate. Jayjg 06:19, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: "Hitler was born before sunset" reverts