Talk:Finns

message: having a stone age, shite quality pic is useless.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.217.59.87 (talk) 12:06, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Could we have a modern photo? 

message: Quite certainly there are not 8 million Finns in the world. Not even if you include Kvens, Ingrians and Tornedalians. I don't have sources on that, but I think it is obvious. Try adding up all the regional estimates (that also seem to be quite high) mentioned in the article and you will not get 8 million. 62.78.213.135 (talk) 16:09, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I changed the number to 6.5 million, which is near 4.8 + 0.5 + 0.7 for Finnish speaking in Finland, Sweden and (ethnic Finns? in) USA. The different figures differ in definitions, so a real number is hard to get without a good source. --LPfi (talk) 16:54, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Highly exaggerated numbers 

message: Kvens and Tornedalians are said to be of "Finnish descent", which seems dubious, as they (at least the Tornedalians) have lived in the respective area before Finland existed as a country, or the area where they might have come from was regarded as part of Finland (as a part of Sweden). I do not know how to rephrase, though.
All Karelians are counted as Finns in the main fact box. In the article Karelians in the historic province of Karelia are said to be counted as Finns. The Russian Karelia is much larger than what belonged to the historic province, and the population was resettled in Finland when the area was seeded to the USSR, so counting the Karelians should have some other rationale (the Karelian language is close enough to Finnish to be counted as a dialect, but I think counting them as Finns is at least disputed).
--LPfi (talk) 16:54, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Karelians, Kvens and Tornedalians 

message: I changed the montage to this one but it was noted to me, that before such a big change it should be discussed here on the talk page. I did the new image based on the image used on the article British people. So does anyone oppose changing the image or have some suggestions, questions or corrections to the montage itself? Jontts (talk) 05:13, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  New montage 

message: An image used in this article, , has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests January 2012 
;What should I do?
Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
* If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use)
* If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used.
This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 18:45, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: File:32 Finns.png Nominated for Deletion

message: I added to the end of the lede which states that Finns are genetically "strikingly different" to other Europeans. They are actually not. They derive from the same pool, however, they often stand out from clusters because Finns are thmeselves so genetically heterogeneous (as already stated in body of article). These features are thus due to drift, bottleneck etc in the the prehistory of Finnish population demography; however, they are no more distant to Europeans than other Europeans are amongst themsleves. Slovenski Volk (talk) 06:26, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: There is a difference between "different" and "separate". Finns are not genetically separate, but have higher internal differences than the rest of Europe combined. This is completely expectable in distributions like this, since it's the exact same thing with human genetics in general: Africans have more internal variety than the rest of humanity combined. Waves of migration tend to distribute homogeneous genes widely, so the distribution is not "random". --vuo (talk) 15:03, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Genetic uniqueness of Finns 

message: Swedes aren't Finns, Russians aren't Finns, Somalis aren't Finns. Nationality is not the same thing as ethnicity, which this page apparently ignores.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.189.66.225 (talk) 08:38, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  5 million 500 thousand finns in finland 

message: I want to point out that the same words are used Swedish and Finland-Swedish.  The later is simply the easternmost dialect of Swedish.  However, far from everyone here in Sweden is aware of Finland’s Swedish-spoken minority.  Those which are not may refer to both as “finnar” (singular “finne”).
2013-12-31 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.114.157.228 (talk) 20:55, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Word for them in Swedish 

message: 'Finns' to 'Baltic Finns' is the same as e.g. 'Germans' is to 'Germanic peoples'. (The relevance of such linguistically oriented categorization of peoples is in itself debatable). Clarifer (talk) 09:05, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: 'Finns' is not the same as 'Baltic Finns'

message: Seemingly there is a significant number of commentators which support the general removal of infobox collages. I think there is a great opportunity to get a general agreement on this matter. It is clear that it has to be a broad consensus, which must involve as many editors as possible, otherwise there is a big risk for this decision to be challenged in the near future. I opened a Request for comment process, hoping that more people will adhere to this proposal. Please comment here. TravisRade (talk) 23:03, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: That is not an RfC and it doesn't follow the RfC process. It's just a collection of opinions and has no authority. Liz Read! Talk! 23:17, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The RfC was opened correctly. please comment at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Ethnic_groups#Proposal_for_the_deletion_of_all_the_galleries_of_personalities_from_the_infoboxes_of_articles_about_ethnic_groups. Dkfldlksdjaskd (talk) 09:29, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal for the deletion of all the galleries of personalities from the articles about ethnic groups 

message: This article claims that there are 470K Finns in Sweden, while Sweden Finns says that the number is estimated to be 426K, that article also says that 20% of those are estimated to be Finland-Swedes, that is members of the Swedish-speaking minority in Finland, and not (ethnic) Finns. Resulting in there being an estimated ~340K "true" Finns in Sweden, not 470K (people are regarded as being "finländare" in Swedish government statistics if they were born in Finland or have at least one parent who was born in Finland, with no information about anyone's ethnicity; meaning that both Finland-Swedes and "true" Finns are included in the numbers). The article also claims that there are "native Finns" in Dalecarlia, but being partly Forest Finn, i.e. descending from people who migrated to that area about 400 years ago and haven't spoken Finnish for many generations, hardly qualifies anyone as a Finn... Thomas.W  talk 17:50, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Finns in Sweden 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Finns. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.geocities.com/grpadm/Rootsi2006.pdf
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 09:45, 4 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Finns. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?refid=1861611591
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080405232839/https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/atlas.html to https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/atlas.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 18:45, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Finns. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120120045914/http://www.folktinget.fi/pdf/publikationer/SwedishInF.pdf to http://www.folktinget.fi/pdf/publikationer/SwedishInF.pdf
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 21:45, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I have reverted an edit claiming that "The original European hunter-gatherers that populated large parts of Europe before the early farmers appeared are most similar to Finns and other extreme-northern populations", while the source says that "the Stone Age hunter-gatherers were outside the genetic variation of modern populations but most similar to Finnish individuals" (my emphasis), meaning that even though individual Finns are of a type that is similar to the Stone Age hunter-gatherers examined, they were "outside the genetic variation" of the Finnish people as a whole. - Tom | Thomas.W  talk 13:04, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Point taken. I edited the text accordingly.--Velivieras (talk) 16:10, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  I wonder how long it takes before people start making jokes about which ones in Finland are most similar to Stone Age people, with this being a possible candidate... - Tom | Thomas.W  talk 16:43, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Hard to say whether his ancestors were fast enough for hunting or flexible enough for gathering.--Velivieras (talk) 16:59, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Aw, c'mon. You're being cruel. I'm actually pondering the mating options... Snowblindness? --Iryna Harpy (talk) 20:58, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stone-age hunter-gatherers 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 10 external links on Finns. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20040828122741/http://www.migrationinstitute.fi/db/stat/fin/art.php?artid=56 to http://www.migrationinstitute.fi/db/stat/fin/art.php?artid=56
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20040828122741/http://www.migrationinstitute.fi/db/stat/fin/art.php?artid=56 to http://www.migrationinstitute.fi/db/stat/fin/art.php?artid=56
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150216045155/http://www.kominarod.ru/finno-ugry/nations/inger/ to http://www.kominarod.ru/finno-ugry/nations/inger/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071027094021/http://www.bartleby.com/61/17/F0131700.html to http://www.bartleby.com/61/17/F0131700.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?refid=1861611591
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110716064913/http://finland.fi/public/default.aspx?contentid=160054&contentlan=2&culture=en-Origin to http://finland.fi/public/default.aspx?contentid=160054&contentlan=2&culture=en-Origin
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110927045203/http://www.mv.helsinki.fi/home/jphakkin/SevenFinnish.xps to http://www.mv.helsinki.fi/home/jphakkin/SevenFinnish.xps
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080227095022/http://cc.oulu.fi/~anaikio/Heimovaelluksista_jatkuvuuteen.pdf to http://cc.oulu.fi/~anaikio/Heimovaelluksista_jatkuvuuteen.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080405232839/https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/atlas.html to https://nationalgeographic.com/genographic/atlas.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060516220540/http://www.folktinget.fi/pdf/finlandssvenskarna2002.pdf to http://www.folktinget.fi/pdf/finlandssvenskarna2002.pdf
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 07:48, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: There is a disagreement in editing this article that has been mentioned at AN/I but not yet here. The article establishes—in large part through a footnote—that it is using "Finns" as a synonym for "Finnic people" and both in the ethnic sense. However, the word is also used in English as the common term for "citizens of Finland". Swedish is also an official language in Finland, and is spoken natively by the second largest linguistic group in the country: the lead of our Finland article says: "88.7% of the population is Finnish and speaks Finnish, a Uralic language unrelated to the Scandinavian languages; next come the Finland-Swedes (5.3%)", which is referenced later in the article, and see also Languages of Finland. If this percentage has changed because of immigration, as stated in an edit summary reverting me, a reference is required for that change; however, while the fact that Swedish is second numerically could be easily referenced here, the underlying disagreement seems to be that this article is focused on ethnic origins. I would normally protest at the assumption that a clear distinction can be drawn between the ethnic origins of speakers of two official languages within a country, but the Swedish-speaking population of Finland are regarded in Finland as an ethnic minority or a nationality, by their own preference, so this is thorny. Nevertheless, their existence needs to be mentioned in this article: all placenames in the country have both official forms, for example. Yngvadottir (talk) 15:25, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Thomas.W.This article is about ethnic group Finns, not about whole population of Finland. There is a clear linquistical, historical, cultural and genetical line between Swedish speaking population in Finland and Finns. In some sense you can compare it to situation in Belgium where you have Walloons and Flemish people as big ethnic groups or Britons in Hong Kong. During their history Finland Swedes have been clear to distinct themselves from Finns and still do, so in this sense one can see somekind of historical comedy in this debate. Also Finns are part of "Finnic people" but that cannot be used as a synonym.  Velivieras (talk) 16:58, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Swedish-speaking Finns 

message: Regarding my Edit war on the Page Finns, the User Vivieras also has part of Blame in this, since the Swedish language is spoken by 5% of the Finnish people, however, i think he wasn't aware of that, since every time i added Swedish as the languages spoken by the Finns, together with Finnish, he reverted that WhiteGuy1850 (talk) 21:01, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Issue with the Page Finns 

message: Well, but, Swedish must be Added to the Languages, not all Irish people speak Irish, but, Irish is added to the Languages spoken by the Irish people, there's not a Separated Page about "Gaelic Irish people" as there's One about Finland-Swedes WhiteGuy1850 (talk) 21:41, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: "there's not a Separated Page about "Gaelic Irish people" as there's One about Finland-Swedes" 
I believe you cleared up everything there yourself. I do not see the confusion. Irish is a historical and cultural language of the Irish people, as Finnish is to Finns. Ethnic Swedes in Finland are the ones speaking Swedish for the most part, but this article is not about them. --ProKro (talk) 15:17, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Finnish language 

message: I wanted to take a Doubt, the Page: Maltese people have 3 languages in the language section as spoken by such People (Maltese, English and Italian, i.e., a language which is not even One of the Official languages of Malta), so, Why can't I add the Swedish language to the Languages section spoken by the Finns, which is one of the official languages of Finland and is spoken by 5% of the population? WhiteGuy1850 (talk) 02:52, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Taking into account whether the language is official or not in any given country would be a terrible way of determining whether it is important to any people. Fula language, for example, is not an official language in any country, yet it is undeniably the language of the eponymous people, who number in millions over a vast region that spans a number of countries. If you'd be so kind as to read up on the Maltese people, Malta and the history of the two, I'm sure you would quickly learn that Italian and Sicilian were, up until relatively recently, commonly spoken by the Maltese, with Italian still spoken by some even today. This relates to your comment on Irish and its dwindling usage elsewhere on the talk page; still spoken by some but cultural heritage of the entire group. This is simply not the case with Finns and Swedish in Finland. It is commonly spoken only by a clearly defined minority who see themselves as such - Finland Swedes, the 5% you mentioned (sometimes even as separate from Swedes themselves which would only reinforce this separation!). This would be akin to putting Turkish as one of the languages of Germans; Turkish is undeniably widely spoken in Germany but a minority language nonetheless, that of German Turks. Even if we considered Sweden-Finland period of Swedish rule over Finland as part of its Swedish-speaking heritage, this wouldn't do justice to even more recent Russian influence on Finland during the Grand Duchy of Finland; I doubt anyone would add Russian to the list. It seems that this entire confusion comes from your misunderstanding of what the article is about. ProKro (talk) 16:00, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page: Finns 

message: Why are we even considering including anything non-peer reviewed? 
It's well known in the scientific community that the man is absolutely bonkers.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.136.213.195 (talk) 09:22, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I fully agree. Phonologists in general seem too often feeling themselves in need to demonstrate their importance. Thus, cancel, or at least, shorten the paragraph, please. 2A02:8108:9640:AC3:5508:6824:BCFA:951F (talk) 11:33, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wiik's refugia  

message: Forest Finns were mentioned only in "Kvens and Forest Finns in Norway", although the number of Forest Finns was probably higher in Sweden. Anyway, because their language is today extinct, I removed Forest Finns from that sentence, and added "and Norway" on the Forest Finns line in the section of Emigration. But, if they are assimilated to the Norwegian and Swedish culetures, and their language is today extinct, why there is "including Forest Finns" after "Norway: 15,000–60,000"? There is no "including Forest Finns" after "Sweden: 156,045–712,000" - and should not be. Besides, today in the small Finnish colonies in Argentina and Brazil there are more Finnish speaking people than in the Finnskoger of Norway and Sweden. So, I think that if the numbers are based on the users of the Finnish language, today the number of Forest Finns probably is zero. and "including Forest Finns" should be omitted on the line of Norway (after checking in the two referred documents). Eppukoo (talk) 16:32, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: My changes to the "Forest Finns" were undone by user Velivieras, commenting "They are e.g. defined as a national minority in Norway". OK, that is acceptable, because in the Forest Finns article there is: "...However, the culture of the Forest Finns lives to a various degree in Norway and Sweden, and a number of place names commemorate the Finnish origins of various areas they settled, including in the Delaware River Valley of the United States. ... The Forest Finns, who are defined as a national minority in Norway today, are a distinct group from the other Finnish groups in Scandinavia ...".  Eppukoo (talk) 22:14, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regions of extinct Finns 

message: When a whole chapter is based exclusively upon ONE author, and with partly very bold assertions, the author should be named in the heading. Further, what is meant by "The genetic basis of future Finns also emerged in this area." At least I, do not see the sense.2A02:8108:9640:AC3:5508:6824:BCFA:951F (talk) 11:30, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Langs widely accepted book summarises well the history of the research and is a overview to the situation of the research at the moment. You should check it out.Velivieras (talk) 08:09, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Origins" 

message: I have added four academic papers about the genetic make-up and migration history. I also moved a paragraph about Y Chromosome up to the specific sentence about the Y Chromosomes among Finns. I also added two graphics from two cited papers respectively. I added the two references from for the graphics. I do not see any problems here. The included content is not controversial, and already mentioned before my edits in a less precise way. If there are more questions, please write them here. Thank you. .GanjDareh4 (talk) 18:52, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Furthermore, I deleted conent which fail WP:RS, such as from "Eupedia" (a blog). I am not sure if there must be consensus to remove WP:RS and replacing it with academic papers?GanjDareh4 (talk) 18:54, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: My first question would be this, as an apparently completely new editor how are you so obviously familiar with editing? --TylerBurden (talk) 18:57, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I have edit as anonymous editor IP since 2018. I am now trying to improve "genetic" sections which often are only about haplogroup (YDNA, MtDNA, etc.), by including academic papers according to WP:RS. Why you remove my edits and references and reincluded blog sources which are not useable? The references can be verified by reading them.GanjDareh4 (talk) 19:01, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Go ahead and remove the blogs/unreliable sources, I am more concerned with the other content. I'll have a close look at them now though. I hope your story is true and there's not socking going on here. --TylerBurden (talk) 19:04, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Good, no problem, you can read and verify the references. You can reinclude my references after you verified them, or rewrite it according to your understanding, as long the section gets improved. I will remove the Eupedia links and move the Y Chromosome section to the fiting sentence.GanjDareh4 (talk) 19:10, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks fine so far, altough you did include the same reference twice but that's easy to fix. Sorry about not assuming good faith, been dealing with some socks recently. I'll finish up verifying and probably restore your edits. --TylerBurden (talk) 19:14, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: No problem. Regarding my edit at Hui people, the reference (Google books) does not seem to mention Hui people, as such I think it is unrelated to the topic. But if you think it is relevant than I do not oppose it.GanjDareh4 (talk) 19:16, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  Actually, could you do it? I was gonna undo my latest revert but there's an edit conflict with your recent edit, so if you could restore it without the duplicate reference that would be good. --TylerBurden (talk) 19:18, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Okey, I will restore the version without the dublicate reference. Thank you.GanjDareh4 (talk) 19:20, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you as well for being understanding and civil. As for the Hui edit, I got no issues with that. I reverted because the edit summary seemed vague and the content not obviously unrelated, but that reason seems more than fair to me. A tip would be to use descriptive edit summaries in the future, it can prevent misunderstandings like this. But again thank you for being civil and for improving the article. --TylerBurden (talk) 19:24, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you too, I will use edit summaries from now on to prevent misunderstandings.GanjDareh4 (talk) 19:26, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

text: I have included several inline citations/quotations to make it easier to confirm for other users and to prevent such problems. :)GanjDareh4 (talk) 09:39, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  My edits (GanjDareh4)