Talk:AVE

message: "7000 km of high-speed rail operational by the end of the decade" that really a lot since it's a mountagnous country so with tunnels and bridges. Marc Venot 00:05, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Spain is already number 2 in the world, only after China. So, why not?--LucasW (talk) 05:49, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: 7000 km of high-speed rail

message: It would be nice to get some citations/more information on:
* more details as to the reason for the choice of Seville for the inaugural line: just because of Expo '92, or were there other reasons;
* the allegations of favouritism levelled at Felipe González over the choice of Seville;
* more information on the punctuality guarantee: in particular, how unique is this? I know from personal experience that AVE punctuality far exceeds at least the TGV and the Italian Eurostar, and think it likely betters Thalys, ICE and Eurostar, but more details would be nice. [This undated article] has some figures, and is where the 0.16% came from, but it would be nice to have a period for this;
* more on the likely reduction in domestic air travel and the extent to which this is a motivating factor in expansion (short-haul air travel is quite environmentally unfriendly and for this reason there is an EU initiative to encourage train use instead of taking domestic flights - in Spain you can  get a discount on your AVE ticket if you can show an international flight ticket in/out dated within 72 hours of your train journey.)
* more on the issues concerning the connection to the TGV network. The two points mentioned are at opposite ends of the of the border; are they both being considered, or just one, and what are the political implications for the choice? Trains to Paris tend to go through Irun AFAIK, although La Jonquera is nearer to Barcelona (and there will now be a high speed link from Madrid to there.)
-- Blorg 08:08, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  References/Citations 

message: Maybe the lengthy political rant at the introduction of the article should be integrated (and NPOVed a little) with the history section. I think that the introduction should be mostly about technical features of the train. --xDCDx 09:26, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually have been protecting the AVE since 1992. I had friends in the military service doing it back then. 
Honestly the use of would in this article seemed to violate the no point of view.. that is why I got rid of that statment... no use talking aboud would have or should have...WngLdr34 05:44, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Political rant 

message: A Spanish Railway map I picked up (http://www.alleuroperail.com/eurorailway-maps/spain-portugal-railway-map.htm) seems to show a high-speed Barcelona-Tarragona-Castellon-Valencia-Alicante line. Is this not an AVE line? The map doesn't show the partially completed Madrid-Barcelona or the Madrid-Malaga lines referenced in the map, though. - Binand
:As far as I know, that is a broad gauge line upgraded for 200 km/h. There are some leftover TGV/AVE units that serve this line that are marketed as Euromed. --Qualle (talk) 16:04, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: That map (the colouring of the lines on which has more to do with Eurail pass validity than anything else) is, in any case, not very up-to-date (it includes at least two closed lines). Incidentally, AVE and Euromed refer to trains, not lines. The new, purpose-built high-speed lines (Madrid - Sevilla/Lleida etc.)  are called líneas de Alta Velocidad (AV); conventional lines upgraded, wholly or in part, to allow faster running are referred to as Velocidad Alta (VA). The distinction is similar to that between Neubaustrecken and Ausbaustrecken in Germany, though in Spain there is also a difference of gauge. AVE trains run (naturally) on Alta Velocidad lines; Euromed trains on Velocidad Alta routes. -- Picapica 11:01, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Barcelona - Alicante 

message: >> Currently, five lines make up the AVE system:
>> AVE Larga Distancia (long distance) Madrid-Sevilla (Madrid, Ciudad Real, Puertollano, Córdoba, Sevilla) 
AVE Larga Distancia Madrid-Zaragoza-Lleida (Madrid, Guadalajara, Calatayud, Zaragoza, Lleida) 
AVE Lanzadera (shuttle) Madrid-Puertollano (Madrid, Ciudad Real, Puertollano) 
Talgo 200 Madrid-Málaga (Madrid, Ciudad Real, Puertollano, Córdoba, Málaga 
AV Media Distancia (Mid distance) Madrid - Toledo. <<
To me, the above is incorrect in several respects.
*There are currently two high-speed lines: 
**Madrid - Sevilla
**Madrid - Lleida
*The standard-gauge network currently consists of the above two lines, plus a branch from each:
**(Madrid -) Alameda de la Sagra - Toledo
**Zaragoza - Huesca
*By my count, services operated over that network are of six types, operating over twelve routes:
**AVE 
***Madrid - Sevilla
***Madrid - Huesca
***Madrid - Lleida
**AV media distancia 
***Madrid - Toledo
**AVE lanzadera 
***Madrid - Puertollano
***Córdoba - Sevilla
**Talgo 200 
***Madrid - Córdoba (continuing, after change of gauge, to Málaga)
**Altaria 
***Madrid - Sevilla (continuing, after change of gauge, to Cadiz / Huelva)
***Madrid - Plasencia de Jalón gauge-changer (continuing to Logroño / Pamplona)
***Madrid - Lleida (continuing, after change of gauge, to Barcelona)
**TRD
***Calatayud - Zaragoza
***Zaragoza - Huesca (some continuing, after change of gauge, to Jaca)
Would anyone like to confirm / correct this information before I attempt to incorporate it in the article? -- Picapica 11:36, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lines 

message: I find this frangment of Future developpement section:
"When completed, the Madrid-Barcelona line should be the world's fastest long-distance train in commercial operation, with trains billed to reach a top speed of 350 km/h and covering the 600 km between the two cities in just 2.5 hours."
quite untrue. TGV trains already (and this won't rather change) link Paris to Marseilles in 3 hours, which gives both faster journey and longer distance:
* Average speed:
** about 250 km/h (750 km in 3 hours) for Paris - Marseilles 
** about 240 km/h (600 km in 2 hours 30) for Madrid - Barcelona
* Distance
** about 750 km for Paris - Marseilles, over 700 km on high-speed tracks
** about 600 km for Madrid - Barcelona
--Madcap pl 08:05, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fastest long distance train? 

message: Given that the subject is spanish high speed trains, I think that the main physical units should be km/h as they are in common use in all continental Europe. Franjesus 11:59, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  km/h vs mph 

message: There has been some debate over whether the comments attributed to the minister that the line will be limitted to 300km/h are a journalist's misrepresentation, when they actually meant that it was only raised to 300km/h temporarily and there will be another speed up when ETCS level 2 is available. If this is going to be the final limit, no one has told Siemens, for example. Discussion on Usenet would indicate that 350km/h is still intended.
Dpeilow 19:00, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: 300km/h or 350km/h?

message: just wondered why someone felt it necessary to go through and change the dates from eg. the 12th October 2007 to October 12 2007. I thought that kind of editing was against policy - as in if its a European article leave dates written the 'European' way, and as long as its consistent its ok!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jonny1047 (talk • contribs) 10:50, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: date format

message: Hi all, I've just read that someone has written that the map is "inaccurate". As I created the map myself, I have something to say. My source is a public document of the Spanish Ministry of Development ("Ministerio de Fomento"), in which there are detailed maps about the current and future high speed lines. You can read a complete English translation here. 
About the lines in service, please bear in mind that the map states clearly that it is for December 2007. I uploaded the map last October, before the problems in Barcelona line were known, and that's why this line appeared in green. Now that we all know that the AVE trains will only reach Valladolid and Malaga by end December 2007 if there are no more technical problems, I've made a new version of the map updating the situation in Barcelona (now it appears yellow). 
As soon as the Barcelona line is opened, probably during the first semester of 2008, I'll update the map again.
--Assdl (talk) 12:36, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The map also shows much of the line from Valencia to Barcelona as being complete.  Sure, it was upgraded in the past couple decades, but not to standard gauge and not to 300km/h.  No AVE services use the line.  Anyway, thanks for the map, it's a nice addition to the article. Alcuin (talk) 13:34, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But you're getting a bit confused with an AVE service and a high-speed line in Spain. They are not synonyms. High-speed rail means 200 km/h or faster, not  standard gauge or a line serviced with AVE trains. Between Barcelona-Valencia-Alicante you have the so-called Euromed trains, which are the same AVE trains for Madrid-Seville, but with the traditional Spanish gauge. This line is prepared in some sections for a speed higher than 200 km/h, so it's a high speed line. In the future the gauge will be changed to be the European standard one, as in the other new high speed lines. That's why it's green in the map. The same happens in other sections between Albacete and Valencia or between Seville and Cadiz. If you don't believe, please visit the official site of the Spanish Ministry of Development ("Ministerio de Fomento"), and compare the map with the one here. This document is part of the Spanish Strategic Plan of Infrastructures and Transport 2005-2020, chapter about railways. --Assdl (talk) 15:43, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, there is a difference between 'high speed' and AVE.  The AVE lines from Madrid to Sevilla, Barcelona, Valladolid and Malaga are all standard gauge, electrified to 15kV AC, completely double-tracked and designed for ~300km/h operation for most of the route.  The Alacant-Barcelona route is broad gauge, electrified to 3kV DC, partly single track, and only capable of 200km/h on some stretches.  The Sevilla-Madrid and Alacant-Barcelona routes are about the same length, about 525km.  The fastest AVE service from Sevilla to Madrid is 2h30 for an average speed of 210km/h. The fastest EuroMed service from Alacant-Barcelona is 4h46 for an average speed of 110km/h.  Even on the fastest portion of the line, from Castello to Tarragona (~190km), the fastest service is 1h19, for an average speed of 140km/h.  This map is labeled as a map of the AVE network, and is used in articles about the AVE network, so I think having that line in green is misleading.  It is not built to typical AVE standards, and does not carry any services marketed as AVE.  By looking at the map, most readers would assume that the line carries AVE services, but it doesn't. 
Maybe a bigger issue here is that the AVE article doesn't make it clear enough that the AVE lines are part of a greater project of renovation of Spain's railways.  Not all of the upgraded lines will be built for 300km/h. Alcuin (talk) 19:52, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I understand what you mean, Alcuin, but I think we aren't talking about the same thing. We have solved this ambiguity in Wikipedia in Spanish, where we have two different articles High-speed rail in Spain and AVE. Bear in mind that not all high speed lines or sections of lines in Spain are currently serviced with AVE trains. I created the map for the first of the articles, about all high speed lines in Spain (in the criterion of speed higher than 200 km/h), and then I decided to translate it to other languages, including English. The caption of the figure should be changed to "High-speed railway network as of end December 2007", as it appears in Wikimedia Commons. --Assdl (talk) 13:15, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The solution then is to clear up that ambiguity in the English article as well.  Either the article should be greater in scope, to discuss all the ongoing upgrades, or there should be a map (either in addition to, or in place of yours) that specifically shows the AVE lines in operation, under construction or planned.  Alcuin (talk) 15:58, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: About the map (erroneously described as "inaccurate")

message: The spanish wikipedia has two separate articles on the subject, es:Alta Velocidad Española, which describes the rolling stock and services, and es:Alta velocidad ferroviaria en España, which describes the network and construction.  
I support splitting the english AVE article along similar lines.  Spain is currently undergoing a massive renovation of its train network, including (but not limited to) the construction of several new AVE lines.  That project needs greater coverage.  Alcuin (talk) 16:50, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Split articles? 

message: Turkey bought some high-speed train sets from Spain. Are they AVE?--78.180.50.60 (talk) 13:33, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  AVE in Turkey? 

message: In the section on other projects: 
"Another connection to the LGV is also planned, at either La Jonquera in Catalonia or Irun in the Basque Country."
La Jonquera is the last town in Spain on the Barcelona-France motorway before the frontier, and lies more or less over the tunnel under construction for the Figueras-Perpignan line. The reference should be deleted. I assume the Irun connection would be an extension from the new line to Valladolid.
--JamesWim (talk) 15:47, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Upgrade of the Irun/Hendaye connection is already planned for the next few years, in conjunction with the Basque Y and upgrades on the Valladolid-Burgos-Vitoria line.  I think another connection in the middle of the Pyrenees is also planned (but not quite inevitable at this point).  It would more or less replace the defunct Canfranc railway, and would extend the (built) Huesca line into France. Alcuin (talk) 00:30, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  La Jonquera? 

message: Someone has put down that other lines that are high speed but not AVE are run under the Alvia brand, but what about the EuroMed? is that not considered high speed by the same standards? or the Altaria (does that still exist) - they all run around 200kmh don't they?  does anyone know?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jonny1047 (talk • contribs) 19:27, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That would be rather difficult as there are two different guages involved!! Jezhotwells (talk) 23:42, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Check out this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdOKVFx5Yx0&feature=related
Its not difficult as the Alvia trains can change gauge without stopping! The previous Altaria trains which ran the Madrid-Barcelona route could also change but had to stop in order to do so! Jonny1047 (talk) 18:48, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alvia 

message: Until 7 February 2010 High-speed rail in Spain was a redirect to this page and I suggest it is kept that way. And the information should be merged into this page. (Similar discussion on about the TGV at Talk:TGV#Suggested_re-name). Any opinions on the subject? Prillen (talk) 09:24, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: What about other services Alvia, Avantetc , also AVE does not cover other aspects eg LAV, also AVE does not cover historical aspects.Shortfatlad (talk) 11:19, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

text: In my opinion AVE and high-speed rail in spain should be two separate articles, just as high-speed rail in italy and Eurostar Italia are separate articles so should AVE and  high-speed rail in spain be. The AVE article really should only contain information about the commercial venture by RENFE and not contain high-speed rail related information. Once the market is deregulate AVE will only be one of several high-speed rail brands operating in spain.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.54.203.209 (talk) 23:22, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

text: Oppose.  AVE is only one aspect of high-speed rail in Spain, and with competition on the horizon, we need to keep these things separate. The problem with TGV right now is that high-speed rail in France, including talk of the tracks, and the services like TGV, Eurostar, Thalys, are all squished into one article. The service called AVE is logically separate than information about high-speed rail in Spain as a whole, and we should have two articles to reflect that. —fudoreaper (talk) 05:13, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge with [[High-speed rail in Spain]] 

message: AVE services only account for the fastest trains in Spain.  There are also the AVANT and Alvia services that have in-service speeds that fit accepted definitions of high-speed rail (i.e. over 200km/h).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.60.98.134 (talk) 16:16, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Don't merge

message: AVE is one of the services that offers Renfe. High-speed railway lines in Spain are also used by other Renfe services such as Avant (regional high-speed train), Alvia (adapted for both Iberian and Standard high-speed gauges) and other services that use the high-speed lines together with the classical lines built in Iberian gauge. Anyway, this article must be improved. Mllturro (talk) 14:05, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: AVE is a type of service

message: High-speed roads may be under a concession to some private operator. On that high-speed roads may pass a lot of buses from different private companies.
There is similitude when we look at railroads and trains: railroads may be public or may be under a concession to some private operator http://www.networkrail.co.uk/ . And trains that use it may be public or manage by private companies http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/tocs_maps/tocs/ . Mixing those things (walkway and shoes) those not seems a good idea.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Rail
Esoj Sevla (talk) 18:42, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Auto roads & Buses AND Railroads & Trains 

message: An image used in this article, , has been nominated for speedy deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Other speedy deletions 
;What should I do?
	Speedy deletions at commons tend to take longer than they do on Wikipedia, so there is no rush to respond. If you feel the deletion can be contested then please do so (commons:COM:SPEEDY has further information). Otherwise consider finding a replacement image before deletion occurs.
This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 20:17, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: File:AVE.svg Nominated for speedy Deletion

message: Cf
http://www.elperiodico.com/es/noticias/sociedad/ave-sufre-otro-reves-retrasa-hasta-2013-1531221 
(includes map at
http://estaticos.elperiodico.com/resources/pdf/4/3/1331504775634.pdf )
for the present (12/3/2012) state of affairs. 
The bottom line is that in Barcelona, 15 km remain to be completed, plus 9 km in Girona, in both cases track-laying, electrification and the rest, and that a delayed contract awarding procedure means that the line will not open this year, but rather in 2013 - probably around mid-year. 
Vamos a ver...  .)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.45.181.179 (talk) 04:20, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  'Construction and current development': update 

message: It seems there is a conflict on the provided information from Wikipedia regarding the top speed in which AVE operates during commercial service in Spain. In the beginning of this article it is stated:
"Alta Velocidad Española (AVE) is a service of high-speed rail in Spain operated by RENFE, the Spanish national railway company, at speeds of up to 310 km/h (193 mph)."
Later on Madrid–Valladolid line it is written:
"Trainsets used on this line include S-120 (max speed 250 km/h (155 mph)), S-130 (Patito, max speed 250 km/h (155 mph)) and the S102 (Pato, max speed 320 km/h/199 mph)".
In the article AVE Class 103 under "In Service" section it is written:
"While the trains and the tracks were commissioned for a regular top speed of 350 km/h (220 mph), the train control and signalling system necessary for such operation, ETCS Level 2, was not ready for service. Thus commercial top speed is limited to the maximum Spanish authorities approve for the line with ETCS Level 1 since 7 May 2007, 300 km/h (186 mph)."
And again in the article AVE Class 102 you can read:
"After the commissioning of the train control system ETCS Level 1, the top speed was increased in steps.[8] Since 7 May 2007,[9] the trains travel with the top speed targeted for the time being[7] 300 km/h (190 mph)."
Which is the correct one after all? 300 km/h? 310 km/h? 320 km/h? something else? Does anybody have a clue?Clicklander (talk) 10:06, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Top operational speed for AVE 

message: Searched for the words "usage", "ridership" and "popularity" in the article and none turned up. If anyone has sources, I propose adding a section like TGV#Ridership to this article. AadaamS (talk) 10:27, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ridership? 

message: Substituted at 06:27, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on AVE. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100923060005/http://www.adif.es/en_US/infraestructuras/lineas_de_alta_velocidad/madrid_galicia/madrid_galicia.shtml to http://www.adif.es/en_US/infraestructuras/lineas_de_alta_velocidad/madrid_galicia/madrid_galicia.shtml
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.fomento.es/MFOM/LANG_EN/_ESPECIALES/PEIT/default.htm
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 11:55, 1 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on AVE. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140410223618/http://www.europapress.es/economia/transportes-00343/noticia-economia-ave-reyes-inauguraran-ave-valencia-principes-conexion-albacete-20101210123611.html to http://www.europapress.es/economia/transportes-00343/noticia-economia-ave-reyes-inauguraran-ave-valencia-principes-conexion-albacete-20101210123611.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100923060043/http://www.adif.es/en_US/infraestructuras/lineas_de_alta_velocidad/madrid_extremadura_fronteraportuguesa/madrid_extremadura_fronteraportuguesa.shtml to http://www.adif.es/en_US/infraestructuras/lineas_de_alta_velocidad/madrid_extremadura_fronteraportuguesa/madrid_extremadura_fronteraportuguesa.shtml
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 07:14, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: A discussion is taking place to address the redirect :High-speed rail in Spain. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 May 25#High-speed rail in Spain until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 01:03, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  "High-speed rail in Spain" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: Two sources mention that the section valladolid - Burgos as active.
*Talgo Avril exceeds 360 km/h between Valladolid and Burgos
*www.openrailwaymap.org
The commercial services are all Avia or MD (media distance). It could be that there are no AVE services terminating at Burgos and Avia services run on the high speed line change gauge at Burgos and continue. This seems unlikely as all trains take at least 1 hour 7 minutes, also the MD services. I suspect an opening this year.Smiley.toerist (talk) 14:36, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extention to Burgos