Talk:Eragon/Archive 1

message: The first section of the article is advertising --213.35.232.160 18:43, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: ,

message: I'm not sure the pronunciation information belongs in this article.  It seems like something one could look up in the index of the book if one was having trouble with it.  Otherwise it isn't relevant to the general reader of wikipedia.  I've taken it out a few times but it always ends up back in.  Can you explain why you feel this section is important and relevant.  Thanks! Cmouse 21:53, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok.  No answer.  It's gone. Cmouse 05:30, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation 

message: I'm not sure about the new version as opposed to the old one although it has a citation. It's a lot shorter and doesn't cover everything. I'm not going to do anything yet because I want to hear want everybody else thinks. This is the original text:
: "There has been much criticism of Eragon, regarding everything from word usage to the marketing techniques. It is said that the most frequent criticism of the book is that it uses far too many clichés. Paolini employs stock characters, such as Elves, Dwarves, and a pseudo-orcish race known as Urgals, which name is suspicously similar to the phrase "ur gals" (sarcasm alert), complete with an elite sect known as the Kull.
: There has been much debate over whether or not using Elves and Dwarves similar to Tolkien's is taboo or not.
:::Using elves and dwarves is not copyright.  If it were, D&D, WoW, NetHack, HP, Munchkin, and EverQuest would be sued a thousand times over. 
: On the note of Tolkien, it has also been brought up that many names in Eragon resemble those in Tolkien, such as Ardwen (compare to Arwen), Isenstar (compare to Isegard), and Mithrim (mithril). It should be noted that these are just a few examples of many.
:::Sorry folks, but both Tolkien and Paolini took a lot of names from Norse mythology.  Some of the names were English based, too though.  John, Brom.  Angelina, Angel.  Solembum, Solem Bum.  Teirm, term. Mythrim, Myths Rim. Zorac, Zoro.  You get the idea.  You are drawing conclusions from thin air, and believe me their is a lot of chaotic languages floating around even in the thinnest air.
: Another criticism is that the plot closely resembles that of the Star Wars original trilogy. Characters are also similar, down to Brom who is supposedly the last of his order.  However, Saphira, angelina, solembum, and the twins are entirely seperate from the Star Wars trilogy, to name a few.
: Paolioni countered these two remarks by stating that most fantasy is derivative, and that Star Wars has heavy ties to Buck Rogers and Dune. Furthermore, he also believed Tolkien to echo a Norse myth about a ring that made a dwarf invisible.
: Conlangers poorly receive Paolini's Earthsea-esque "Ancient Language," though many fans, like me, praise Paolini's ingenuity on the subject. 
: As far as technical writing goes, it is a fairly smooth novel." 67.166.247.121
It also says that the Durza permanently scars Eragon; which we now know is untrue
-I think that it is true, since he was permanently scarred, except it was removed by magic. I don't think it's wrong, especially since he WAS permanently scarred till Eldest. Eragon doesn't include that part.
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Put the old one back in. It looks like some Random House employee wandered in and decided to make it all pro-Eragon.
-Bosco
HEY! Don't assume people are Random House employees, communists, or anti-homeschoolers.  If lots of people tweak things in order to make it pro eragon, well, thats a democracy of sorts for you.
-- Where's the "rebuttal" there?  There's two sentences attributed to Paolini after three paragraphs.  Since numerous examples are given of alleged plagiarism of Tolkien, shouldn't someone go find examples of what Paolini is talking about(that is, examples from Star Wars mirroring Buck Rogers and Dune, or the actual Norse myth he claims Tolkien mirrored), or at least discredit that?
 -An actual quote of him saying that would be nice too. -Bosco
:The section on Tolkeinesque language now closely resembles the dreaded Original Research (though interesting, not permitted).  Can anyone find a notable source to cite for this?  The published reviews all call the book Tolkeinesque, but without so much detail. Deborah-jl Talk 21:11, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism and Rebuttal 

message: Can we come up with another word?  Personally, I don't think "taboo" is a good fit here but "plagiarism" may be a little strong, given that Tolkien was not the first or last writer to use elves and dwarfs. -- DS1953 talk 22:40, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Derivative is a great word.  Cmouse 21:01, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

text: It works for me. -- DS1953 talk 22:47, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Taboo vs. Plagiarism 

message: Now that the Eragon film has its own article, do we need all this information on the book's page? How about a simple "See Eragon (film)"?
Also, the movie poster on this article and the one on the movie page are different. One should probably be removed. Which one? (note that the grey-ish one on this page is not actually a poster, but a promotional flyer issued along with other materials - like a map of Alagaesia - by the studio)
Tredanse 11:03, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Movie 

message: How do we reference to the fact pointed out that Paolini's dwarf speech is similar to Khuzdul? We can't create an article explaining the semetic sounds of Khuzdul and how the dwarf speech appears to be a copy of this can we? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.152.182.88 (talk • contribs) 22 March 2006
: No, not really.  If you can find a notable review/book/article/website that discusses the similarity, we can cite it.  Should be easy enough to do a search (if you can't find anything with Google searching for "Paolini" "Ancient Language" "Khudzul" ask a librarian if they can show you how to search book review and journal databases).  But if you can't find anything it's original research, and we can't talk about it here. Deborah-jl Talk 15:40, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  similarities to Tolkein