Talk:State motorcyclists' rights organizations

message: This article doesn't go into a lot of detail about ABATE's history - the fact that it is not a national organization does not necessarily imply that it has no history, or that its history is not deserving of mention.  I have thus marked it as a stub. --Popefelix 06:48, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: History

message: I would like to compile a table that shows which state currently have a helmet law, and which do not.
--Hawkwynd 23:06, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Progress 

message: Finding Verifiable sources for much of the history of ABATE and the individual chapters is going to be hard.
I am going to try and do some research on some of this so that I can flesh out some info on this.
Brynath (talk) 22:28, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Getting a hold of the Easyrider magazines from the 70's isn't easy. plus they are not really a reliable source other than as the fact that there was a general call for people to do something. maybe we can find the original articles of incorporation for the first ABATE organization. I'm trying to go through my local area papers at that time to find some articles on when and how ABATE of Alaska started. I'm also looking to see if I can find references to the court cases that prompted much of the general call to action that spawned ABATE. any info in regards to this would be handy.Brynath (talk) 18:47, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources 

message: Since it wasn't moved to ABATE chapters, I moved it to State motorcyclists' rights organizations, because:  Not a proper noun -- there is no central "State Motorcyclist's Rights Organization".  It is a collective descriptor for various state-level groups, most of them called ABATE of [state], some by other names.  And motorcyclists' should be possessive plural.--Dbratland (talk) 00:42, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moved to State motorcyclists' rights organizations 

message: * .  
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--Dbratland (talk) 00:57, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible references 

message: Disclosure: I am an experienced Wikipedia editor who has recently taken up motorcycling and joined ABATE of California. I believe that this article should be moved to "ABATE" as that is by far the most common name for such state level groups in the U.S. I also believe that the current "Criticism" section gives undue weight to criticism by a single commentator, Michael Dresser. The article needs a much better range of references and a broader perspective, in line with the neutral point of view. Comments from other editors are welcomed. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 04:23, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I tried to have it moved to ABATE chapters before but didn't get enough consensus. You have my support if you want to try again. As far as the criticism, it could be expanded but the tone and content are an accurate reflection of third party observations of ABATE. Most reasonable people who meet a "motorcycle safety" group who wear either skid lids, or no helmets at all, who meet in bars, and who oppose mandatory motorcyclist training, are rather incredulous. ABATE sounds more like a "you're not the boss of me" group than a "safety" group.<P>Anyway, I would consider the guidelines in WP:COI. If one is a member of this club, it could be more difficult to objectively edit an article on them, in comparison to editing an article on a group you're not personally a member of. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 04:39, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I joined ABATE just this week, Dennis, explicitly as a Wikipedia editor with nearly 18,000 edits, in the hopes of obtaining access to reliable sources that describe the full range of views on this group. I do not intend to be a POV editor on their behalf. I edit on my own and in support of NPOV, not to advance any group's particular agenda. I am also a Sierra Club member, and edit neutrally in that topic area as well. Of course, this group has that "you're not the boss of me" flavor, but it is not up to us as Wikipedia editors to make such judgments on our own. That would be original research. We are here to report and summarize what the full range of reliable sources say about the topic - not just what one specific reporter wrote in a series of critical columns a few years back. In California, where I live, ABATE holds a seat on the advisory committee for the California Motorcycle Safety Program (CMSP) which conducts safety training under state government auspices, supervised by the California Highway Patrol. I graduated from one of those courses just five days ago. They are also leading advocates for May as Motorcycle Safety Awareness Month, and cooperate with other motorcycle groups and dealerships throughout California. I see them as a bit controversial but not at all a fringe group. But I am just getting started with this article, and look forward to collaborating with you and other interested editors. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 05:00, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

text: The article says ABATE is "opposed to mandatory helmet laws". Where does it say ABATE discourages helmets? If it says that, we should delete it. Are you referring to the opinion of Michael Dresser? He is a critic of ABATE and we quote him directly so that we don't distort his opinions. That's all. It's OK to disagree with him. Wikipedia doesn't present what Dresser thinks as facts, it's just what the guy thinks. The reason the section requires expansion is that we should include more opinions. Your additions are welcome! Please do the necessary research and expand the article to help balance it.<P>By the way, the claim that helmets diminish sight and hearing was debunked at least as far back as 1994. Though by inference, the fact that helmeted riders didn't have more accidents in studies like the 1979 Hurt Report is evidence that even 35+ years ago helmets didn't diminish sight and hearing. I don't know what vintage of helmets you're thinking of. The old puddin' bowl helmets didn't cover your ears or block your sight. Either that or sight and hearing aren't vital tools in avoiding an accident, which I don't think is plausible. I think most drivers would like what you propose: making motorcyclists all drive cars. They don't see what good it does them to have us around; they only see the cost, and they don't want to pay. Mandatory helmets are just one way to minimize that cost and avoid an outright ban of motorcycling.<P>Anyway, please go ahead and expand the article. If you need help finding sources or getting access to premium databases, please say so. There is help available, such as WikiProject Resource Exchange. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 20:02, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  I propose significant changes to this article.