Talk:Hulk/Archive 2

message: I was wondering if anyone knew the story behind the House of M Hulk. It's a huge departure from the regular, with Bruce Banner hanging out eith aborigines and in control of his rage/Hulk persona. There was very little mention of it in the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kidney Stone (talk • contribs) .
:See House of M for much of the general background. But, the aborigine-thing (and baldness/tattooes that went with it) aside, the characterisation of Banner & the Hulk was pretty much identical to how Peter David had been writing him for the preceding (non-HoM) seven issues. - SoM 00:32, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: House of M

message: Added some more on his powers and abilities. Superhuman sense of smell; when the mindless Hulk and his three astral friends (Goblin and Guardian and Glow) are on a desert plant, he can sniff out water many miles away. 
In "Hulk: The End" by Peter David and Dale Keown, we see that he is able to digest as good as everything that is organic. And if I remember correctly, he is also living in a cave for many years where he "feeds" on radiation only. And as we see in his future adventure where he fights Maestro, the Maestro has increased his powers by absorbing radiation. See astralbodies; while Dr. Stranges astralbody is invisible for everyone else, Hulk can see it. (He also have some other strange psychic powers it seems. In a story drawn by Herb Trimpe, Hulk enters a whole city in a desert where he meets a girl in a wheel chair that speaks to him. It all turns out the town is not real. He is also said to be able to find back to the desert where he was "born", not matter where he is in the world).
Depending on his personalities/incarnations, his body is morphing into different sizes, colors and shapes. And his intelligence, powers and behavior is also changing depening on the incarnation. Also such thing as a splint in his brain can affect his color and powers. In one story he is transforming himself into a young version of the Maestro by will power alone. How strong his morphing abilities are, I guess no one has ever found out yet. 
Maybe is Hulk's body even able to develope and evolve over time to adapt to different challenges in the environment. While evolution in other organisms only happens through many generations and natural selection, the evolution in the Hulk seems to work here and now (the gland that makes an "oxygenated perfluorocarbon emulsion", making it possible for him to breath under water). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hipporoo (talk • contribs) 18:50, 4 April 2006
The ability to digest anything organic isn't exactly canon because "The End" series is simply another possible alternate reality/timeline.  Also, this morphing ability really isn't a superhuman power.  The Hulk isn't nor has he ever been classified as any kind of shapeshifter.  What issues did these stories take place, notably the one involving a heightened sense of smell?  I haven't heard that before so it must be pretty obscure.  It might be one of these obscure powers that some characters demonstrate that has only been used a very small number of times and hasn't been seen or used in many years. Odin's Beard
Well, even if "The End" is an alternative future, the Hulk is still the same, even if he is much older. So it would be logic to assume the present Hulk also is able to eat almost everything. The story when Hulk is able to sniff out water happened in issue 309 I think.
When I said morphing I didn't mean a real shapeshifter, but that he has the potential to transform himself into numerous versions of himself, each different in body, size, color, powers, intelligence and personality. There is maybe a name for this ability, but in the lack of it I just called it morphing. In issue 438 he turns himself into a young version of Maestro by will power alone. It is also in this story line where his skin color and size changes because of a damage in his brain. http://www.leaderslair.com/gammapeople/incarnations/shrapnel.html 
(By the way, I see that I might was a little tired when I first added some more about his power since his ability to see astral bodies and find back to the desert are already mentioned.)
Clarified a statement made concerning Peter David's last Hulk story in which he depicted the Hulk having spontaineously grown oxygen difusing membranes in his lungs in order to breathe water. Added that in 40 years of continuity he has never demonstrated this before when being underwater (having instead merely held his breath) and that the story takes place in a quasi-real "dreamworld" created by Nightmare. --Dol1701 18:02, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've removed that section completely for being speculative. As you point out, it is a dreamworld thing unsupported by 40 years of continuity. Additionally, with regard to your recent edit summary, no one used your signature without your permission: You added it yourself in your previous edit. --Chris Griswold 21:34, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Um, no, I didn't add that myself. My first insertion on this discussion page was my last one (i.e. the one you just responded to which began with "Clarified a statement..."). It is the first paragraph in this section which I am referring to. It was attributed to me and I didn't write that. --Dol1701 22:54, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You might want to take another look. --Chris Griswold 00:08, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I apologize.  I attributed the comment to you as you had added the signature in an inexplicable place.  I assumed you had added that comment so I moved the signature you had placed to reflect that.  Anyway, I have since attributed it to the correct editor after a bit of searching.  Again, I apologize. --Newt ΨΦ 01:41, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  No worries, Newt. And Chris, I'm pretty confident that I know what I write and what I don't write. --Dol1701 01:49, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Powers and abilities again

message: The wikipedia article mentions "Dr. Bruce Banner" and "Robert Bruce Banner",
and names his father "Brian Banner".
However,
some people seem to remember that his father is named "David Banner",
and notes that
in
the television series, the doctor himself (Hulk's alter ego) is named "Dr. David Bruce Banner".
I'm sure there's a perfectly rational explanation we could retcon in here.
:Very simple - he was originally simply "Bruce Banner." Stan Lee's notoriously... porous... memory meant a few stories had him as "Bob Banner", and his name was later made officially "Robert Bruce Banner" to account for this. Later, his father was revealed to be called "Brian Banner". End story as far as the comics go.
:In the Hulk live-action TV series, the producers didn't like the name "Bruce", so they changed his name to "David Banner".
:In the Hulk movie, they called his father "David Banner" as a homage to the TV series. - SoM 19:23, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is Dr. Banner's first name? 

message: "The Amazing Colossal Man" (1957), has Glen Langan, as Lt. Col Glen Manning.  He's is in a trench, with his troops, awaiting the detonation of an above ground atomic bomb test, (a frequent event in the 1950s).  A plane, (flying near a nuclear weapon test site?), crashes near the bomb's location.  Without a thought of his own safety, Lt. Col. Manning leaves his trench to help the people inside the plane. The bomb goes off, the plane is destroyed, and Lt. Col. Manning, exposed to the effects of the bomb, becomes "The Amazing Colossal Man" and grows very tall.  He runs amok in Las Vegas, (similar to the later film; "Honey I Blew up the Kid"). In the 1962 comic book, Dr., (David Robert), Bruce Banner is in a bunker awaiting the first test of a gamma bomb. Teenager Rick Jones on a dare, drives into the test site, (passing all the security guards in the process), and parks his car near the bomb's location.  Without any thought of his own safety, Dr. Banner grabs Rick Jones from the car, throws him into a nearby trench and is exposed the effects of the gamma bomb explosion.  Dr. Banner then becomes the, ("not very jolly" green giant); "The Incredible Hulk". Of course, there are probably many works of fiction that inspired the Hulk; "Frankenstein", "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde", and a lot of 1950s monster movies that had atomic radiation in them.  It just seems to me there are more than a few simularities between "The Amazing Colossal Man" (1957), and "The Incredible Hulk" (1962).204.80.61.10 18:15, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Dude, try to get your thoughts down the first time. You've edited this paragraph eight times. Either add new comments or check your facts before you write them the first time. --Chris Griswold 18:48, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "The Amazing Colossal Man" and Hulk comparrisions

message: I am not sure I have ever actually heard this description given for Banner's background; it's always been physicist or something having to do with gamma radiation. To be honest, I don't know much about physics, so is "nuclear physicist" then the correct terminology for his career? --Chris Griswold 03:22, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. --Darin Wagner 11:16, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you know of a comic book that states this? It would be great to have a citation. --Chris Griswold 19:24, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Nuclear physicists design nuclear bombs, ergo Banner is a nuclear physicist just as Robert Oppenheimer (the real-world inspiration for the Hulk's alter ego) was. He has been described as such throughout course of the Hulk's publication history, despite initially being described more blandly as a "nuclear scientist." If you absolutely NEED an example of him being described as one from me, you are going to have to wait. My Hulk comics are mostly in storage and it will take a while to locate an example to satisfy you. --Darin Wagner 02:18, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Edited to add that Marvel Comics, the owners of the Hulk intellectual property, describe Banner as having a degree in Nuclear Physics... which would kinda make him a nuclear physicist. This isn't what you asked for, but it's nonetheless further proof that he is one. http://www.marvel.com/universe/Hulk --Darin Wagner 03:05, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe you, but I should caution you that the Marvel wiki should be taken with a grain of salt; I can go change that entry right now and then re-cite it back to you. --Chris Griswold 03:21, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As per the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Deluxe Edition #5, 1985, Bruce Banner's occupation is "nuclear physicist". He is alternately referred to as an "atomic scientist" and "a genius at nuclear physics". Did you want this cited in the opening paragraph or in the Publication History section? --GentlemanGhost 03:51, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Didn't notice that the page on the Hulk at the Marvel site was a wiki, so I'll retract that. --Darin Wagner 11:18, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Hey, thanks for taking this so seriously, guys, but I was really just curious about it. I am glad it is in the article, though. --Chris Griswold 11:25, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nuclear Physicist 

message: See Talk:Hulk - SoM 17:39, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Requested move

message: This article breaks the plot down by issue, which is unreasonable. (See: WP:CMC Editorial Guidelines) The article should be condensed and placed into the context of the Hulk article, which certainly can use the information. --Chris Griswold 13:29, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Planet Hulk Merge 

message: *Merge --Chris Griswold 13:29, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: *Totally unreasonable.  Issue by issue synopses with little or no sourced analysis are against Wikipedia policy and not fair use. --Newt ΨΦ 16:47, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion

message: Merge --Chris Griswold 08:06, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Which do we attack first, Psyphics: Jean Grey or Hulk? I liked working on Young Avengers together; we can quickly condense either of these with two of us doing the work. --Chris Griswold 19:24, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd go with Hulk, unless there's similar resistance to merging outside articles that should be merged with Jean Grey. The problem is I don't know as much about Hulk or Jean Grey as I do about YA, though I'm guessing I might be able to tell from the multitudes of minutiae included in these articles what is important. All told, I don't have as much time right now to do too much of this, but I may later this weekend.   --Newt ΨΦ 19:29, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Knowledge is not as essential as editing skill, which you have. I have just done the majority of the article, but my edits need to be gone over to make sure they're OK, and there's still more to do. --Chris Griswold 09:28, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Always more to do.  I'll try to look over your edits when I can find the time.  I usually only have the time for editing a heading or two. --Newt ΨΦ 12:10, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: I've finished editing for the night. I have moved two sectios that can possibly be re-organized and re-integrated to Talk:Hulk (comics)/bio and Talk:Hulk (comics)/incarnations. The powers and abilities and media sections need to be edited.
Can anyone fill in the years between the early `60s and the Peter David run? That is a huge gap. Thanks. --Chris Griswold 07:58, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Edited the powers and abilities section, pared it down quite a bit, but it could probably still be pared down further.  --Newt ΨΦ 15:50, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Heavy lifting 

message: The article states that there's  1986 retcon that changes the history of Hulk to where he was grey from the beginning.  Peter David's run started in 1986.  I'm assuming these two are connected, but can we get a verification of that? --Newt ΨΦ 13:48, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Peter David 

message: Why is the first image one of the Hulk in the "Planet Hulk" storyline - surely better to have one that is closer to the "classic" version and use the Planet Hulk version in a section about that storyline? 
--Charlesknight 11:56, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It was changed before there was an established or known concensus by WP:CMC editors to keep the SHB image the most recognizable look of the character.  If you can provide a better image (preferably one that meets WP:CMC editorial guidelines) by all means do so. --Newt ΨΦ 13:13, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  First image 

message: Thought you might be interested to know about this recently-created article. --Dweller 10:10, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Totally unnecessary, given the article for The Incredible Hulk tv series. --Darin Wagner 11:14, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Dr. David Banner]] 

message: I was just wondering about something. When the Molecule Man dropped the mountain on top of the heroes during the Secret Wars crossover, couldn't the weight of the mountain, while falling, be even greater than 150 billion tons? I didn't really pay attention in science class when my teachers went over the parts discussing the concepts of gravity and mass and all that kind of stuff. It might not be of any real use as far as discussing the article, it's just something that popped into my head that I'm curious about. Odin's Beard 01:13, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The acceleration would make the force greater, yes. --Chris Griswold  (☎☓) 01:24, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Strength Question 

message: Could editors who know more about the character than I do edit Jarella and make it awesome? It's not terrible; it just needs more love. --Chris Griswold  (☎☓) 08:26, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jarella 

message: As Ultimate Hulk is already part of this article and we have an 'alternate version' heading, perhaps the Maestro entry here should be expanded a little and the Maestro (comics) article should be deleted?
--Mrph 17:12, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Is this an official merge discussion? --Chris Griswold  (☎☓) 19:49, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, but I'm wondering if there should be an official merge discussion, though... --Mrph 02:23, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Ok, now it's an official merge proposal - as noted below... --Mrph 20:02, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Maestro (comics)- merge into Hulk (comics)

message: Merge - --Mrph 20:02, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: * It seems to be clearly within the merge guidelines. I can't see any particular reason to keep it separate, especially when Ultimate Hulk is already merged and the Maestro article is tagged for cleanup, so would need rewrite work anyway. --Mrph 20:02, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion

message: Done, I think, but still a little longer than I'd like. If anyone happens to have the relevant Exiles issues and feels like condensing that section of the Maestro's history, that'd help. Failing that, I think we're about finished. The inclusion of the Captain Marvel / Starfox story is arguable, since it had no consequence for the Maestro, but I'd be inclined to keep it there for the moment. --Mrph 20:58, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge complete?

message: Who's the vandal who's peppered this section with citation tags? Do we really need to verify that "the Hulk is one of Marvel's most recognized characters"? What, are you afraid that people will mistake him with the ten thousand other green-skinned, musclebound monsters? I suppose you need a referenced source to explain that Superman can fly! 216.55.197.117 21:20, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: First of all, don't call editors idiots. Second, yes, we do need a citation on these claims. If we can't find such citations soon, I imagine the claims will be deleted. I don't have a pretty good imagination, though, so I am fairly sure they will be deleted. --Chris Griswold  (☎☓) 01:20, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, per WP:V, we would need some sort of citation for anything we say. --NewtΨΦ 03:10, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. Substantiation is sorely needed for things like easily one of the physically strongest characters in the Marvel Universe. His strength is only surpassed by that of Superman sentence in the Powers & Abilities section. No references are cited and since Superman isn't a Marvel character, nothing outside of non-canon crossovers could be referenced.VanPelt101 01:39, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Let's not be idiots, people

message: Does the first paragraph of "Ultimate Hulk" describing his amplified emotion in terms of deadly sins (wrath, sloth, lust, gluttony) strike anyone else as strange?--Fleecebeast 12:59, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ultimate Sins?

message: *Publication info from 1968-1986
*Character biography
--Jamdav86 19:32, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing, please add 

message: Paul Jenkins, who should know, calls it the Devil Hulk when interviewed. If it has actually been "renamed" as Rage Hulk or some such, is there a source to cite? --Mrph 21:47, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Aha. Has already been reverted, so never mind(?)...  --Mrph 21:48, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Devil Hulk

message: Does anyone know the 1602: New World version of Hulk well enough to feel confident adding it to the page? It deserves a mention. --Mrph 21:55, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Other versions - 1602?

message: The sentence in dispute:
:In this series, he is shown to tear Wolverine and his adamantium spine in half, the second demonstration of the Ultimate Hulk's ability to destroy the "indestructable" metal, after having broken the adamantium needle with which Captain America attempted to pierce him in the Ultimates Vol. 1. issue #5.
Since people seem to not be reading the edit summaries, I'll copy them here for people to comment on.
*22:18, 21 November 2006 El benito (No bones had to be broken (see Vertebral column), so ultimate adamantium wasn't broken)
*23:45, 21 November 2006 67.190.56.103(→Ultimate Hulk - Reverted back to previous edit. Last revision based upon personal conjecture, and not verified by source material.)
*00:07, 22 November 2006 CovenantD (let's not ignore what a spine is - a series of vertebrae held together by ligaments, not one continuous column of bone and metal)
*08:37, 22 November 2006 192.223.163.5 (→Ultimate Hulk - This is a comic book people. The purpose of Wolverine's adamantium skeleton is for it to be indestructible. Assumption is not verified.)
*20:41, 23 November 2006 El benito (Talk | contribs) (Lack of spacing, Wikipedia is not for original research, shouldn't cross reference wiki articles via external links, content should be footnoted here, discussed in other articles) (emphais added)
*12:47, 24 November 2006 192.223.163.5 (restored vandalized content)
* 16:51, 24 November 2006 CovenantD (→Ultimate Hulk - content dispute is not vandalism, and there's debate about the "indestructibility" of Ult. adamantium. It is your claims that are unsupported)
*17:53, 24 November 2006 67.190.56.103 (→Ultimate Hulk - The claims of the previous editor were supported by source material- CovD is vandalizing - I suggest CovD take it to the talk page instead of deleting verified material.)
*18:05, 24 November 2006 Kontar (→Ultimate Hulk - Completed last editor's reference. I agree with the last editor. Covenant D is vandalizing. He needs to read the issues. Please use the discussion page for disputes.)
Kontar and the two anonymous IPs need to read up on what vandalism is and is not - "Vandalism is any addition, deletion, or change of content made in a deliberate attempt to compromise the integrity of Wikipedia." Don't mistake content dispute for vandalism. 
The point here is that it is an assumption that Wolverine's spine is constructed as a single piece of adamantium. Logic and medical knowledge would dictate this is not so; adamantium would not be able to bend in any way, shape or form so Wolvie would be mobility-impaired with a column of metal for a spine, healing factor or not. The most likely answer is that the writers of the comic used their knowledge of anatomy to provide a way for Wolvie to be ripped in half. Unless your positing that Ultimate adamantium is flexible? CovenantD 01:59, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I realize that logic and science are not always the best guide to dealing with comics - E does not equal MC2. On the other hand, we can't completely dismiss it either. When it is the cause of controversy, we should err on the side of caution. That means we DON'T assume that Hulk ripped a column of adamantium in half, which is exactly what the editors in question are concluding. It is that assumption on the part of multiple editors that I contest. CovenantD 04:15, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

text: It was never arbitrarily deleted. It was deleted, with edit summaries explaining why, because it was speculation and conjecture. CovenantD 04:39, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ultimate Hulk and adamantium 

message: does anyone think it's ok to merge Hulk 2099 into this articleGman124 19:54, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Merge: The character is a minor alternate version that had very little impact when compared to alternates like the Maestro and the Ultimate Hulk. Everything about the character can be summed up in his own section that'd be no larger than the other alternate versions, maybe even smaller. Odin's Beard 02:24, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Merge: I think this should be mergedGman124 22:02, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No Merge I change my mind, I'm going with no mergeGman124 00:47, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

text: No Merge: Viewed as an alternate version of Hulk, WP:CMC guidelines would suggest that this is merged. However, Hulk 2099 also had an ongoing series of his own, even if it wasn't a very successful one, and on those grounds I think it does probably justify an article centred on the series (on similar grounds, Ultimate Iron Man currently gets its own article, whereas Ultimate Wolverine doesn't). --Mrph 22:25, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

text: No Merge: The Hulk article is large enough as is, and Hulk 2099 is a separate character with the same name, not an alternate version. Brad T. Cordeiro 22:24, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

text: No Merge: Not Bruce Banner, had his own ongoing series, and Hulk article is getting bloated with alternate versions. -- El benito 02:46, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

text: No Mergey: Hulk article can't take addition of 2099 stuff. --Chris Griswold  (☎☓) 04:23, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

text: No Merge: As has been said, it wasn't really an alternate version of the character but a separate character altogether (albeit in a "possible future timeline") with his own series. Maestro1ca 20:17, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Hulk 2099

message: It's probably too strong an option, but since the Hulk article seems to be getting nothing but crap lately from anonymous edits via various IPs, should this page get semi-protected?  We've seen multiple erasures from one IP, a constant re-insertion of "near" to the "ground zero" by multiple IPs, and some other dreck. I'm not sure what the criteria are for an admin's decision, so I'm tossing this out there for discussion -- El benito 03:28, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protection? 

message: Why is there no Fictional character biography for Hulk? All the other characters include their bio. There's only one paragraphGman124 23:33, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ...which has just been deleted. I'd say that it needs to be restored (as per WP:CMC/X, it should be there) - but either it needs to be expanded or some of the current information needs to move under that heading? --Mrph 09:02, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Hulk's Fictional character biography

message: Nothing is mentioned about the Marvel magazine-format series "Rampaging Hulk" (at its end retitled "The Hulk!" I think). Also 20+ years of pre-Peter David stories of the Hulk are generally given the short end of the stick here. Sure his work revitalized the character, but this reads like a "Star Trek" article written by people who've only seen "The Next Generation" STFmaryville 00:52, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rampaging Hulk 

message: It has been suggested that Mindless Hulk be merged into this article. --69.136.111.100 04:13, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: good Idea. Let's get it done soon. ThuranX 04:36, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm listing this as a merge proposal on WP:CMC/NB, which should get things rolling... --Mrph 21:34, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mindless Hulk 

message: *Merge --Mrph 21:32, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: * No reason I can see why Mindless Hulk should have an article of its own, especially when consensus was that other versions such as The Maestro should be merged into this article. --Mrph 21:32, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion