Talk:Police ranks of the United Kingdom

message: Is there a contradiction here perhaps?
Para 1: Every officer still only has the powers of constable, no matter what their rank. 
Para 2: Higher ranking officers have certain extra powers ...
Satyricon uk 22:43, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not really. Their powers when dealing with the public are the same (e.g. making arrests). What differs is their administrative powers (e.g. authorising longer detention, authorising entries). -- Necrothesp 16:26, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

text: You can apply for promotion to sergeant after completing probation (two years). Potential sergeants and inspectors have to pass exams to qualify for promotion to those ranks. Apart from that, there are no hard and fast rules for promotion. Some people are promoted to sergeant pretty much as soon as they complete their probation and climb the ladder quickly; many constables never even apply for promotion and prefer to stay at the lowest level and not end up spending most of their time behind a desk. -- Necrothesp 18:01, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

text: When the Metropolitan Police was formed it was very deliberately decided not to use military ranks to discourage the idea that the new force was at all for the repression of the people. The only exception was sergeant. There was no real need for corporals in the command structure in any case, as sergeants were in charge of sections and there was no unit below that. British Army lieutenants wear two pips, incidentally. One pip is carried by a second lieutenant. But remember that in the army, officers join directly as second lieutenants, whereas in the police all inspectors have been constables and sergeants first, so it makes sense not to have an "apprentice" rank as in the army. Incidentally, some Scottish police forces did use the rank of Lieutenant, between sergeant and inspector, until the early 20th century. -- Necrothesp 17:47, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Rank

message: Isn't the mention of the RUC anachronistic? At the very least a sentence should be added that the RUC no longer exists.
:Well, it's not anachronistic. Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia and thus includes historical information as well as current information. The fact the RUC no longer exists doesn't mean info about it shouldn't be here. That section merely pointed out that the RUC used a different rank structure at one time. The PSNI is mentioned elsewhere. -- Necrothesp 12:28, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Police Service of Northern Ireland, not RUC 

message: It would perhaps improve the article if the procedure of career progression is added.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.155.102.122 (talk) 12:24, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: OSPRE is worth a mention- it's the name for the exams officers sit for promotion to sergeant/ inspector HJ Mitchell (talk) 00:02, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Career progression 

message: Am I right in thinking that Traffic Wardens no longer exist, having been replaced by "Civil Enforcement Officers"? Incidentally, traffic wardens are (or were) not constables and "traffic warden" is not a rank, should they, therefore, be included in the article at all?   HJ Mitchell (talk) 00:02, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually police traffic wardens no longer exits legally.  They were abolished by the Policing and Crime Act 2017 as per the article.  Not sure what Hampshire may or may not be doing but, in law, the person cannot be a traffic warden Bowchaser (talk) 12:16, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Traffic Wardens

message: When Trenchard introduced the rank of junior inspector, did holders of the rank wear only a single pip? Greenshed (talk) 01:28, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, over a bar. Inspectors (who had previously worn one pip) wore a pip over two bars. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:42, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Junior inspector 

message: I note that the way ranks are outlined in the rank insignia table possibly gives the false impression that a Chief Constable is of lesser rank than other senior officers of the Met & City Police.  I think this table needs to be altered accordingly or the London forces separated from others to prevent giving a false impression.  See [] for reasons.
Also this article seems to be growing a list of Special Constable grades which frankly the average reader is not going to be interested in.  I suggest the general description is enough and each forces special constabulary page can detail the grades in detail if required. Also technically there is only one rank of Special Constable (i.e. no legal definition of the different grades - merely a method of Specials organising themselves) Any thoughts? Dibble999 (talk) 18:42, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Senior rank possible misinterpretation & Special Constable grades 

message: You see it on tv, "Hello I'm DI Jones" or something like that.
--IceHunter (talk) 02:04, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: DS is Detective Sergeant. DSI is often used for Detective Superintendent. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:10, 3 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  But what's a "DI"? 

message: I've reverted insertion of the City Police insignia, as unfortunately they're full of errors. At a glance:
*unlike, say, the Met, the force uses rectangular slider epaulettes without buttons on the top;
*2### collar numbers are used only by PCSOs (and none are as high as 2312); constables (and acting sergeants) have 3-digit numbers and uniformed substantive sergeants either 1- or 2- digit numbers or 3-digit numbers up to 150; special constables have 11## or 12## numbers and special sergeants 10## numbers;
*sergeants continue to wear "CP" divisional letters;
*acting inspectors continue to have their chevrons at the bottom of their epaulettes, like substantive sergeants;
*the acting inspector crown is different to the superintendent crown - in particular it is plain gold;
*the assistant commissioner now has tipstaves and a pip, not tipstaves and a crown;
*the pips, crowns and tipstaves are all too small in relation to the epaulettes;
*the tipstaves also just look wrong - the actual ones are much more ornate and have colour in them (see this picture of the current commissioner, for instance);
*the colour is wrong - apart from the text, the pictures look far more like bronze than gold (although I accept that's rather pedantic!);
*the "SC" insignia is a consistent size - the pictures make it look like special inspectors and above have a larger version; and
*the "HAC" insignia isn't nearly that big, and isn't worn on operational uniform any more in any event.
So while I like the idea (images are a far more user-friendly way of displaying insignia than lines and lines of text referring to pips, crowns and chevrons), unless they're fixed they're simply misleading and therefore not as helpful as the plain text. Proteus (Talk) 13:53, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: They look a lot better - thank you for taking the time to do them. The only two things I'd say are that 129 is a sergeant's collar number, so I'd change the PC's to something over 150 (229 is presumably easiest), and the highest and lowest rank titles in the Special Constabulary are "Special Constable" and "Special Commandant". Proteus (Talk) 14:05, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  City Police insignia 

message: *Have added two large tables depicting headgear and tunics to denote ranks, I'm sure they will be removed or complained about because of their size or inaccuracy. But please write here if you do and I will accomdodate your every request.--aliw136 19:21, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, clearly the colours are City-only points. I'm not sure about the others, although I'm pretty sure the cap oak leaves patterns are universal. Proteus (Talk) 08:03, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, the oak leaves meeting in the middle is universal. The current design is indeed an American thing. As far as I'm aware you are also correct about only chief constables (and ACs and up) having oak leaves on the gorget patches. ACCs and DCCs and London equivalents just have silver (or gold) stripes. Superintendents and chief superintendents don't wear gorget patches. Oh, and yes, many forces do have superintendents in traffic. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:35, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Headgear and Tunic insignia 

message: *Did anyone have anymore thoughts, (it is mentioned earlier) on the extensive list of SC ranks? Do you think its good or bad? Should it be got rid of all together, left well alone or something done about it, (and if so, what)?--aliw136 21:49, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Special Constabulary Ranks

message: *As discussed above and much further above, I was looking at ways to make the specials force-by-force look appealing instead of a giant list. Any feedback and further thoughts people have now they can see the before and after?
**I think it looks a lot more professional than the huge list that was there before. Might need some research on bar location, though. I'm pretty sure Met Special Sergeants have their bars below their numbers, not above them, for instance.
***Yes I agree. They are all based on my interpretation of whatever was written there before, so may need tweaking.(You are right about the MET: )--aliw136 16:57, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: SC insignia tables

message: Chief Superintendent is included in the list of defunct rank insignia. It seems that the rank has been reintroduced; see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_superintendent  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:14BA:2FA:A800:D044:7BA5:3210:8C25 (talk) 16:33, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: The rank of Chief Superintendent never really disappeared, despite attempts to abolish it. What is defunct is the insignia shown, with the two pips horizontally (although I'm honestly not sure whether that was ever commonly used). The current insignia is shown on the main tables. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:06, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Chief Superintendent - not defunct any more?

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I'm a bit confused as to the distinction between the two types of number.
In the rank insignia section it says "constables and sergeants did not wear epaulettes but had their divisional call number on their collar (hence they are still often referred to as collar numbers)." This suggests that "collar numbers" are another name for "divisional call numbers". However, the same paragraph later says "Most forces no longer use divisional call numbers, and retain only the collar number and rank insignia."
This seems contradictory as the earlier parts suggest the two terms are different names for the same thing and that strictly the term "collar number" might no longer be relevant as the numbers aren't worn on collars any more - thus there would now be divisional call numbers but not collar numbers rather than vice versa!
Can anyone shed any light - and perhaps suggest a clarifying edit? Casper Gutman (talk • contributions) 06:11, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I think what it means is that most forces no longer number officers within each division (preceded by the divisional letter), but just use a running number within the force overall (with no divisional letter). It is poorly phrased. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:52, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Collar numbers Vs divisional call numbers 

message: The chart in this section consists of coloured horizontal bars.
# The chart is much wider than my laptop screen, so I can only see the right end by scrolling the row captions out of view.
# The horizontal bars are apparently coloured to convey some information; but without a key to the colours, they fail.
I propose to delete this chart.
[Edit] I see the chart is the whole section; so I'm proposing to delete the section.
MrDemeanour (talk) 17:55, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  History of police ranks