Talk:Barbara Allen (song)

message: The verse should not be here.  A link to external sources, or a WikiSource copy, should contain that information.  Goldfritha 16:47, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This six-year-old comment is absolutely correct. The article links to the Child variations of the lyrics via Wikisource; there is no good reason to have a complete set of lyrics here -- it unjustifiably inflates the length of the article. If the verses were broken down analytically like in the Old Dan Tucker article, their inclusion may be merited. Otherwise, Wikipedia is not a lyrics database. Memtgs (talk) 19:54, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Version

message: Is there no feminist criticism of this song. While the version in the article gives no motive for Barbara Allen's treatment of the man, modern versions do.  The middle of the ballad often goes like this:
I am sick and very sick,
And death in me is swelling. 
No better, no better I never shall be.
If I can't have Barbara Allen.
Yes, you're sick and very sick
And death is in you dwelling.
No better, no better you never shall be
For you shan't have Barbara Allen.
Do you recall that winter's night (alt: Do you recall in younder town)
When we were at the tavern,
You danced a round with the maidens fair (alt: You drank a toast to the lasses there)
But you slighted Barbara Allen.
I'm not a feminist literary critic but I can't be the first person to take umbrage of the fact that William (or Jimmy) wishes to possess (from the song to "have") a woman he had slighted--and the portrayal of Barbara Allen for not giving herself to him as being "hard hearted".  74.129.2.63 (talk) 22:01, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't understand. You say "modern versions" have him slighting her, but then you say it's in the middle of the ballad. Is it in the original ballad or not? BillMasen (talk) 23:43, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Feminist Criticism? 

message: # Moved alternative titles to a new "Variations" section. Changed title in introduction paragraph from "The Ballad of Barbara Allen" to plain old "Barbara Allen", the lowest common denominator. Most modern literature refers to it as such, there is no need to expand the title in an anachronistic or romantic fashion -- and even one were to do that, Coffin and Child would prescribe the gay title of "Bonny Barbara Allen". Added citations for alternative titles.
# Revised story synopsis, making language more concise and adding new sources (Child and Coffin).
# Per WP:SONGCOVER, I have removed all references to modern renditions of the song which lacked both (1) additional commentary justifying their inclusion in the article and (2) a citation. All others remain intact, with some "citation needed" tags added. I have also re-named the section to better reflect its content.
# Removed list of recordings. See above conversation on talk page for more information.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Memtgs (talk • contribs) 03:58, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Explanation of overhaul

message: I'm involved in the English Broadside Ballad Archive project, and we have a digital facsimile, transcription, recording, and citation of the first extant broadside printing this ballad (1675-1696); seems like it might be a useful link to include (but I don't want to violate conflict-of-interest). The ballad itself is held by the British Library, in its Roxburghe collection. Our resource is here: http://ebba.english.ucsb.edu/ballad/30145/image. Thanks!
MeganPB (talk) 17:33, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Wonderful! I have seen this printing before and thought of including an image of it in the main article, but am unsure of the copyright status of the digital facsimile. Is there any way we could incorporate it into the body, with proper attribution? Memtgs (talk | contribs) @ 20:57, 18-09-2013 UTC 20:57, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

text: I imagine it probably does constitute reproduction -- a pity, but I'd rather not risk it. In any case, I've added the citation to the article's external links. Thanks for the heads-up! Memtgs (talk | contribs) @ 16:23, 26-09-2013 UTC 16:23, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link to earliest surviving broadside? 

message: This article is also read by non English native speakers, the lyrics of the song are important for those who want to understand the song, reading and listening it. 
Could someone please write the lyrics. 
If this were a deeper article, it could include several variants of the lyrics, commenting where each variant is singed and how it evolved. One do not expects  an ethnomusicologyst treatise to be written by volunteer wikipedians, but some work in that direction could improve this entry and in similar entries.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.178.73.8 (talk) 08:18, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The difficulty is that there is no definitive set of lyrics. Francis Child, Thomas Percy, the Lomaxes, and any other ethnomusicologist you could think of collecting in an English-speaking region all found multiple variations of different cultural significances. I'll throw something up for the moment, but given the importance of the ballad, an ethnographic treatise may not be out of order. Memtgs (talk | contribs) @ 14:35, 30-11-2014 UTC 14:35, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shouldn't this article contain the lyrics? 

message: Barbara Allen is an English song. To say that it was "originating in England and Scotland" cannot be correct.  Furthermore, why add "which immigrants introduced to the United States, where it became a popular folk song"? It was a popular song in England and Scotland long before it became popular in the USA. The current wording is very American-centric.101.98.161.149 (talk) 02:03, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  English song 

message: I recently removed the italicized portion of this text from the disambiguation page, Briar:
*In Barbara Allen, a well-known folk ballad, the title character is identified with a briar in some versions: for instance, Joan Baez's 1961 version has "Out of Sweet William's heart, there grew a rose, out of Barbara Allen's, a briar."
It is beyond hte scope of a disambiguation page; I don't know if it merits mention here. Cheers! bd2412 T 14:35, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Briar reference 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified