Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Comics/Archive 23

message: Since we're discussing the useage, or miss-usage, of the SHBs, is there a guide line or prohibition in using multiple SHBs in the same article?
The reason I ask is that in Aquagirl, the two longer running characters each have a 'box.
Personally, I like this method as opposed to the "cram it all into one", as in Phantom Lady, for the articles that cover multiple characters but don't meet the criteria for splitting. - J Greb 18:04, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There was one in the works, but I couldn't figure out the wording. Because some articles warrant it, and others do not. I believe it is in the discussion page for the WP:CMC editorial guidelines. --Chris Griswold  (☎☓) 11:52, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: 2, or more, for 1

message: I hope that this posting this here is not an abuse of the project discussion page.
I originated the Roger Broughton Wikipedia entry. I had seen the name in other entries, linked to a non-existant page, so I found a little bit of information about the guy, and wrote a brief entry, and someone else made some small additions to it. Broughton is the guy that bought the rights to a bunch of Charlton stuff that did not sell to DC comics or various creators.
A web bot recently marked the page as a stub because of its brevity, and I would have to agree. But I'd like to see more information about the guy. To be honest, I wrote the entry in the hopes that people with more knowledge than me would make that knowledge available.
Also, the entry has been labeled as a "Comics Creator" stub, but Roger Broughton is really more of a publisher, who has published reprints of old material. Does this fit the regular publisher catagory?--Drvanthorp 07:23, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, firstly, the categories are contained in the stub templates and separate from regularly ones. i. e. :Category:Comics creators is different from :Category:Comics creator stubs. To that end, I'd recommend switching the template to the more general . You can add :Category:Comic book publishers separately, too, to answer your original question. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 08:17, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Roger Broughton]] Entry 

message: Just wanted to know - is there any established policy on character names. Very often some minor character will have a name which is also a common noun with a WP page of its own - e.g. Anole (comics), Rubbermaid (comics). Is it advisable/desirable to create a disambiguation page or to link back to the princial page on the subject? Gamesmaster G-9 02:07, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It varies by editor, in my experience. I think if it's only 2 or three, then cross link the pages, if more than 3 create a dab page. - jc37 03:03, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

text: If the character is very well know, in the same league with the common noun in general public recognizability, then maybe there should be a disambiguation page. Otherwise, probably not.--Drvanthorp 08:28, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disambiguation with minor comic book characters 

message: For anyone interested, I created a userbox version of 
Code	Result	
    	      	is the current Comics Collaboration of the Month.
Let me know what you think : ) - jc37 12:55, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comics Collaboration of the month 

message: I was wondering what you would all think of making a template matching that of the Avengers, but for the Justice League? I had this in mind:
Justice League 	Justice League                                                                                                                 	Justice League
Characters     	
Members | Villains                                                                                                            	
Related teams  	
Justice Society of America | Outsiders | Super Buddies | Teen Titans | Young Justice                                          	
Headquarters   	
Secret Sanctuary | Justice League Satellite | Justice League Watchtower                                                       	
Ongoing series 	
Justice League of America (vol. 2) | JLA: Classified | Justice                                                                	
Previous series	
Justice League of America | Justice League International | Justice League Europe  Justice League Task Force | Extreme Justice | JLA	
Other media    	The Superman/Aquaman Hour of Adventure | Super Friends | Legends of the Superheroes | Justice League | Justice League Unlimited	
Kusonaga 15:22, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks good to me :) --HKMarks(T/C) 15:43, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I added a section of "related teams". Kusonaga 16:13, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

text: You should only remove that "(vol. 1)" from the original series. -Lesfer (t/c/@) 15:59, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Something I don't agree on, since we refer to the second volume first, and to me it would seem logical to then denote it as being the first volume. Once I have some more opinions, I'll create the template. Kusonaga 16:13, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Let's see... The comic book series sections should be just above other media. (Characters first). Add Young Justice, and Secret Sanctuary. Change "Location" to "Headquarters". For at least the second series, Justice League of America, volume 1. Other than Justice, there are no references to the many alternate versions (which may be fine). How's that for a start? : ) - jc37 16:32, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Why would characters precede the titles? It makes much more sense to first denote the titles, and then the characters that appear in them. I decided to go with the removal of (vol. 1) anyway, but wrote out vol. 2 and added your suggestions. Kusonaga 16:43, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Characters first, because it would seem to be the standard in other such boxes? (Template:Superman or Template:Batman for example). Moved them, and and made a few minor edits. - jc37 16:53, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll admit it looks better this way. Well done Jc. Kusonaga 16:58, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks : ) - Though the differential in the centering of the header vs the rest is irksome... - jc37 17:38, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Because Happy Harbor is a town in Rhode Island, which the Secret Sanctuary was just outside of. (Snapper's home town.) - jc37 16:53, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not really much of a article. It just goes to List of locations of the DC Universe under sites and Secret Sanctuary has only 2 sentences. Brian Boru is awesome 17:07, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't disagree that I wish that it had it's own article. However, considering that that was the original HQ of the JLA (at least for around the first 78 issues), and they've returned to it on occasion, I think it's fair to say it should be noted. - jc37 17:38, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Great Job, Kusonaga. And I'm not talking about the template alone, but also Justice League related articles. Really great job! :D -Lesfer (t/c/@) 13:23, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks Lesfer. :D Kusonaga 19:31, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I will be adding Formerly Known As the Justice League to the template. Kusonaga 06:27, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I assume you mean Justice League Adventures? I'll add that too. Kusonaga 06:27, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Justice League template 

message: User talk:XPower2007 (new username as of today, apparently) is doing quite a bit with X-Men including rmeoving the X-Men category, and adding an X-Men members category. (Which goes against the recent consensus at CfD.) Thoughts? - jc37 21:15, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Two separate issues.  One of which, removing the X-Men category, is bad.  Re-adding the X-Men members cat is iffy.  The cats prior deletion was due to the wholesale deletion of all the DC teams cats.  Whether it should come back or not, is up to consensus. --PsyphicsΨΦ 21:26, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Thing is, I'd prefer an X-Men members category over just having all the X-Men be in the X-Men category anyway. Kusonaga 21:32, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Crap, the guy brought back the New Mutants cat too. Kusonaga 21:57, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, and the speed of the contributions leads me to think it's a bot. I think we need to come to some consensus here, and fast. We could treat this as being bold, even if it's rather soon after the deletions...  So at this point, we need to either ask the user to stop, and attempt to discuss, or wait and watch, and re-nominate for CfD. Anyone else have an opinion? - jc37 22:01, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I guess I'll find out next time I'm around... I have to go for the day : ( - jc37 22:21, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: He seems to have stopped for now, I'll leave another note on his talk page. The speed the edits were made at is quite worrying though, suggests someone who is at least familiar with wikipedia, if not a bot. the wub "?!" 22:23, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Righto! -Lesfer (t/c/@) 13:21, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: For super-team categories like the JLA? Yes, the lists are better. For comics-related organisations (like the GLC, or even the LSH)? I think we should keep/have kept those. (Waits for someone ask what the difference is : ) - jc37 16:43, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Golly gee, Jc37, what's the difference? --InShaneee 16:51, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: (roflmao) - the "golly gee", got me  : ) - jc37 17:33, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Ok in the most serious tone I can think of. What is the difference?Phoenix741 19:05, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: X-Men members

message: I cleaned up and basically re-did the entire Jack Flag article. Is it ok now? AbbaZabba39 23:19, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "Okay"? No, but it is a quite a bit better, and your edits and attention are appreciated.  The fictional character history needs to be sourced and referenced with issue #s, writers and artists, creator information.  See discussion below about what is needed.  Onomatopoeia is on the right track. Also look at the manual of style for fiction for further pointers. --PsyphicsΨΦ 17:11, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Jack Flag

message: I just glossed over the fictional biographies of several X-Men, e.g. Professor X, Jean Grey, Kurt Wagner, Scarlet Witch, Shadowcat, Cyclops, Rachel Summers and others and found they are quite in-universe with little out-of-universe info (WP:WAF) and also short on references (comic book issue, year of publication, author who wrote the story, sourced real-life background info) and mostly treat retcons as given facts. Professor X and Jean Grey are actually well sourced, but I miss author information (IMHO it is notable if e.g. Chris Claremont, Jim Lee or Chuck Austen writes a story). So, I would like to know in what level real-life info should be added, and how.
#Is it ok to add info reference footnotes in the scheme of: "comic book issue, year of publication, author who wrote the story, [sourced real-life background info]" as much as I can?
#Should this info be embedded into the fictional biographies, or is a seperate "Publication History" section better? Wolverine has a nice "Publication history" section, also Magneto to a lesser extent. Or is a merged version better?
#Should fictional biographical data be sorted by real-life dates or by canonical order? Concrete example: should the long retcon X-Men: Deadly Genesis (canonically, one of the first story arcs, in real life one of the last) be the start or the end of most character biographies?
Thanks for reading, help is appreciated. -Onomatopoeia 15:08, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Real life order, merged into publication history.  Canon shouldn't dictate anything.  Postdlf 16:11, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Improving X-Men fictional biographies?

message: As mentioned on the talk page for that article, the vast majority of Metamorpho appears to be taken from this page.  I concidered removing the content in question, but that would leave very little article, and I don't know enough about the topic to improve it.  Since the source page is unclear and confusing to begin with, I suggest that someone who knows a little more about the character do a complete re-write. ~CS 04:24, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Could it be possible that they took it from Wikipedia, though? ~ZytheTalk to me! 21:40, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not really, that's a pretty well-known site that is quite known for its long-ass biographies like that. Kusonaga 22:03, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Find the first version of the page that used stuff from that other site.  Then an admin can revert it and delete/hide the intermediate edits. --HKMarks(T/C) 22:16, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  The first version that inserted the site appears to be this one, from nearly a year ago.  There have been many positive edits since then (including the addition of the infobox) which shouldn't be rolled back. I've gone ahead and manually lopped out the material -- which means that the article is now in need of a lot of cleanup. Someone with more time may want to check the the user's contributions to see if there are any more copyvio problems. ~CS 23:13, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Huge Copyviolation on [[Metamorpho]]? 

message: This proposed policy change would permit the speedy deletion of articles that are completely "unsourced" for 14 days after being tagged as such, which I think has implications for our articles in particular.  1) If "sourced" only means "reliable sources," it is often not understood that a primary source is a reliable source for its own content, such that a cite to a comic book issue is sufficient for a description of what that issue depicts.  2)  If "sourced" only means "secondary" "third-party" sources, then this would bar articles on any comics subjects for which we cannot find a news article, book, etc., commenting on it (which can be good or bad, depending on how much you want new and/or minor characters to have their own articles).  3)  Comic book issue numbers may not be easily recognized as providing source information.  I have not yet commented on the proposed policy's talk page, but these are my concerns as is relevant here.  Keep in mind that this would not affect articles that have unsourced statements, only those that are completely devoid of sources.  One positive effect would be the elimination of all purely in-universe character articles (those that fail to cite even one specific work depicting the subject).  Postdlf 19:40, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The proposal apparently needs "any source at all" -- first appearances should count.  So should external links.  We should be extra vigilant about our stub-class articles, though.  I can see a lot of editors seriously misusing this criterion if it goes through as-is, mainly by ignoring explicit sources (such as the subject itself, in the case of a publication, or deciding that external links aren't "reliable" enough and ignoring them).  It's not a bad idea to require sources, but the proposal is currently way too strong. --HKMarks(T/C) 20:18, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Wikipedia:Speedy deletion criterion for unsourced articles]] 

message: Howdy. I'd like all of your input at the voting on the Titans (comics) article. It's on the talk page. Kusonaga 08:59, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Does anyone know what this Teen Titans (comic series) is all about? --69.136.111.100 03:46, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Teen Titans 

message: Not too sure what the policy is, or general consensus, but I saw this done in the : Category:Tintin books and thought it be nice while I am putting together : Category:Spirou et Fantasio albums I might as well. Overzealous, I uploaded the pics before fully understanding how the Wiki system orders and alphabetizes, and too late realized how to end up with a gallery displaying itself in numerical sequence. Now, to move a pic to another filename I haven't seen available, so is there a clever way to rename an uploaded file?  Or do I upload correctly named files and mark the wrong ones for deletion and pass work over to an admin? Or is this albumcover gallery thing altogether discouraged?  Murgh 01:34, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's fine to categorize images (though don't upload images for the sole purpose of displaying them in a category without using them in any article).  As the category naturally sorts media out from articles, I don't know how necessary it is to create an image-specific category.  The resulting "gallery" of thumbnails within the category constitutes a fair use because it's an automatic function of the software used to identify the files and permit easy organization and navigation, arguably on even stronger fair use grounds than the thumbnails in Google image search results that a court upheld as fair use.  There is no way to change an image's name; it has to be reuploaded under the different name and the old one deleted.  Postdlf 02:01, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  ok. Thank you. No, not for the sole purpose of gallery, but making the most of the album covers from the articles. They'll fall into chronological sequence if I do it right, but since altering the name is impossible, I'll come asking for a bulk deletion. that doesn't feel too cool.  Murgh 02:11, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I'm sorry, not following. how do I apply use of the magic word  __NOGALLERY__?  Is there something I should look to in the Tintin category for how it's done? it's obviously entirely uninteresting to give the category tag to the images when they are just listed as name.. Murgh 11:39, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If the problem is ordering, can't you use the normal system, i.e. putting text after a | line? Image album 1 instead of :Category:Spirou et Fantasio albums? Fram 15:39, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If that was the only problem, I had figured it out. Digits only work 0-9, hence 1 and 11 are "the same", so I'd go roman numeral with double digits and II5 should place itself as 25.. But anyway that doesn't matter now because ManInBlack turned off the gallery feature and all this is moot.  I'll go back and remove the Cat.listing because the images have no business there as text..  Murgh 18:17, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Gallery of album covers in comic book category

message: We have quite a few prolific editors here. However, it's becoming increasingly more difficult to sift through page histories (especially dealing with idle vandalism).
This is a polite request that everyone please use edit summaries. You can even set your preferences to remind you if you forget.
I am positive it would make all of our work here at the project easier.
Thanks : ) - jc37 15:36, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good tip about setting that option in preferences. It's very helpful because I sometimes forget to do that, so thanks! - Lex 21:57, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Request

message: Now that he's the new Swordsman, and is no longer associated with his sister as Fenris, should he be given his own article? --DrBat 21:05, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. --Chris Griswold  (☎☓) 09:24, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Andreas von Strucker 

message: This article needs alot of work. As of now, most of it is about the Ultimate version of the team. There is a category for the members: shouldn't that have been in the mass team CFD? Also there is this: Brute (Reed Richards). It's an alternate version of Reed, which I'm sure doesn't need an article of it's own. If it's not worth mentioning in Reed's article, it should just be deleted (no redirect is needed, in my opinion). RobJ1981 21:57, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Frightful Four]]

message: How about a list including names of comics artists, the role for which they're known (inker, lettering, etc.) and some of their more well-known books? Applejuicefool 17:25, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See :Category:Comics creators and its subcategories.  It doesn't currently distinguish between types of art done, as there's a lot of overlap (many, many pencillers have inked their own work on occasion). --HKMarks(T/C) 02:04, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Comics Artists

message: Is anyone willing to fix this article up?
The problem is that Cap is well-known for having his origin and backstory rewritten a lot of times.  The fictional character biography just gives his story as of now with all the retcons thrown in. Ken Arromdee 21:50, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Captain America 

message: Please stop by the CFD for the categories "Wonder Woman actors," "X-Men actors," "Hulk actors," and "Fantastic Four actors," which contain all actors that ever appeared in (or contributed voices to) any film, television show, or video game featuring the respective characters.  These are nominated for deletion per prior precedent on "Batman actors" and "Spider-Man actors."  Postdlf 02:57, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Actors by comic book character adaptation" categories 

message: Can someone find a use for this? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 08:12, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think so. In my opinion, glossary articles shouldn't exist here. As I looked at the glossaries category I noticed the Wiktionary candidate tag on it (so perhaps glossaries will finally go from Wikipedia? I certainly hope so). Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a dictionary. While similar in some aspects, they still aren't the same thing. Wiktionary should be the place for all glossaries in my opinion. RobJ1981 08:22, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Still, I'd hate to see this information lost completely from Wikipedia. Krypton has had a major influence on modern culture and this is a (minor) part of it. At least a link to a Wiktionary entry needs to exist somewhere. CovenantD 15:04, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Should be merged with Krypton (comics) (like Kryptonians was).  Preferably separated out into people, locations, events, etc. and prosified.  I've added the merge tags. --HKMarks(T/C) 01:54, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Krypton glossary]] 

message: This category, which includes articles on the characters that appeared in the comic book series, and articles for related titles, is currently nominated for deletion.  Note that there is currently no other applicable category to group these together, such as "Characters created by Jhonen Vasquez," or "Slave Labor Graphics characters."  Postdlf 18:23, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[:Category:Johnny the Homicidal Maniac]] 

message: Looks like this is trying to rear it's ugly head again. Anybody remember when this was last up for CfD? I can't seem to find it but I know we've dealt with this before. CovenantD 22:54, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 May 13#Category:Anti-heroes. I'd suggest taking it to CFD for speedy deletion, so someone can set a bot on emptying the cat. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 22:59, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I looked at the history of the category, it was made over a month ago. I guess we should keep our eyes on new categories more. This isn't the first time people have re-created deleted categories. RobJ1981 23:46, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll try to step up my patrols of the Fictional XXXXX categories :) CovenantD 14:59, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What do you mean by "set up your patrols"? What are you using? --Chris Griswold  (☎☓) 19:37, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That was STEP up my patrols, meaning increase their frequency. There is no bot, script or program that I use. (I wish.) I just look at the metacategory :Category:Fictional characters by nature and try to figure out what's new, what's been recreated and what's POV. There seems to be another editor, Radiant, who's also doing the same and we usually are in tacit agreement, so I don't feel all alone out there :)  CovenantD 22:27, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[:Category:Fictional anti-heroes]] 

message: Since Checkmate #8 shows that some of the survivors of the Everyman Project retained their powers, do we need a special page listing the Everymen like we have for the New Bloods? --Basique 14:03, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Everyman Project 

message: I was just reading over the article and a major rewrite needs to happen. Almost every single word from the article is taken from various points in the character's profile in the link provided at the at the bottom. I've edited the powers and abilities section, removed OHOTMU stats from it, and reworded it. However, I don't have enough familiarity with the character to undertake a rewrite of the rest of the article on my own, particularly since the character is pretty obscture and hasn't appeared in a Marvel comic in quite a long time. Odin's Beard 02:13, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ulysses Bloodstone 

message: What grammar/spelling/punctuation errors do you see repeatedly in comics-related articles?
* "During" a storyline: Storylines are not periods of time. Something doesn't happen "during the Marvel vs. DC crossover"; it happens in it. Likewise, events take place in Ultimate Spider-Man, not during the course of Ultimate Spider-Man. --Chris Griswold  (☎☓) 06:44, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: During has to do with time. "During events" is OK; "During Amazing Spider-Man #526" is wrong. It has to do with comics wiki-editors' relating to comics as if they are part of a real timeline and the issues are just demarcations in time.--Chris Griswold  (☎☓) 21:14, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

text: "the character..." and "then the character...".  Ugh.  I usually just replace that with the characters last name if applicable otherwise their codename or just change it to a pronoun.  Oh and the "Fictional character biography" getting changed back to "Character biography" because some people think Redundant to state that a fictional character has a fictional history.  RIANZ 17:39, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minor grammar annoyances - Vent/inform here: 

message: The template "Robin (comics)" has recently appeared. We need to explain explicitly what makes something deserving of a navbox for situations like this. I just don't think Robin needs both the Batman and Robin templates, and I think the Batman one makes more sense. --Chris Griswold  (☎☓) 06:49, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe if the template only included things not in the main Batman template then it would be smaller and less redundant, as both templates appear on the page anyway. --Jamdav86 17:27, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Template:Robin (comics) 

message: "Invulnerable" vs. "Durable" edit war at Hulk (comics). This sort of thing happens enough that we need to instate guidance. --Chris Griswold  (☎☓) 09:27, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There are similar things going on over at Thor (Marvel Comics). Grey Shadow | Talk 09:32, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This may or may not be a result of some refactoring discussions we've been having at Talk:List of comic book superpowers#Natural armor about invulnerability, and natural armour/durability. (Though I honestly hope not.) If so, it may be a WP:POINT situation, or at least POV pushing. (Again, I sincerely hope not.) - jc37 11:46, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Durability