Talk:Jinn

message: I recently enlarged some images of jinn.  These were mostly reverted by Skyerise as "oversized" or because "only lead image should be manually enlarged". I realize that if Skyrise is opposed to my changes then there is no consensus for them, but for the record they were enlarged because at least on the settings for most laptops or phones they were small, cramped, hard to see. It's not as though space is limited and larger images squeeze out text. --Louis P. Boog (talk) 01:13, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Please see the image use policy and MOS:IMGSIZE. The degree of enlargement was excessive. Users have the ability to customize their image size and therefore we should not simply conform an article to a single editor's personal preferences. Skyerise (talk) 16:38, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Oversized images"

message: The Grand Imam of al-Azhar, Ahmad al-Tayyib said: "It is necessary to believe in the existence of jinn, because they are mentioned in the Holy Qur'an". There are numerous references to jinn in the Qur'an and Hadith (sayings of Prophet Muhammad). According to Islamic belief, jinn are real creatures. Characteristics they share with human beings are intellect and freedom to choose between right and wrong and between good and bad, but according to the Qur'an [55:14–15] their origin is different from that of man.
Al-Tahawi (d. 321/933) said in his celebrated work on the fundamentals of the Islamic creed: "He (i.e. the Prophet Muhammad) has been sent to all of the jinn and the entirety of humanity with truth, guidance, light, and illumination."
The Hanafi scholar Badr al-Din al-Shibli (d. 769/1368) composed a work of 140 chapters on this topic, entitled Ākām al-Marjān fi Aḥkām al-Jānn (), which was summarized by Jalal al-Din al-Suyuti (d. 911/1505). In this work there is a chapter about the existence of jinn and disagreement about them (here or here). Badr al-Din al-Shibli said that al-Juwayni (Imam al-Haramayn) in his work  (The Compendium on the Principles of Religion) said: "Many philosophers, the majority of Qadariyya, and all heretics denied the existence of the shayatin (devils)  and jinns.... Al-Baqillani said: Many Qadariyya affirm the existence of jinn in ancient times and deny their existence now... Imam al-Haramayn (i.e. al-Juwayni) said: ...(There is) a consensus of all scholars in the era of the Sahaba and Tabi'een on the existence of jinn and devils..."TheEagle107 (talk) 05:26, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: @VenusFeuerFalle Idk if these things are already addressed in previous discussions. May be you wish to address or reply and also create a FAQ so every time you need not repeat over and over again.  Bookku    (talk) 11:32, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeh it is the same as ever, I even filled my Wikipage with that, but it does not help when Users refuse to read anything and just drop random quotes, no one asked for. (it is actually always the same two or three Users. At least one of them tried to improve). VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 20:11, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

text: I just gonna drop this here: WP:OR. And before you go around and enter the desired outcome into a Google Search engine, make sure you actually hit what has been objected to. VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 20:10, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

text: Jinns are mentioned many times in the Qur'an. Not only does the Qur'an repeatedly mention jinns, one of its chapters is even named after them. I think the right question here should be: "Is believing in the Qur'an part of Islamic faith or not?!"The six articles of the Islamic faith are: 1. Belief in God 2. His Angels 3. His Books (including the Qur'an) 4. His Messengers 5. The Last Day (the Day of Judgment) 6. Belief in al-Qadar (God's predestination, preordainment, decree, destiny, fate).--TheEagle107 (talk) 00:08, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Note

message: — Assignment last updated by Queso Misterioso (talk) 01:35, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: Introduction to Mythology

message: for anyone interested there does not seem to be any discussion in the Jinn article talk page archives about belief in Jinn being or not being a necessary belief in Islam. (Bookku suggested I look this up.) --Louis P. Boog (talk) 15:37, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Earlier talk page discussion

message: There is a wonderful table about each day of the week and their relation to angels and jinn. However, I wonder if this is not rather something for the article Worship of heavenly bodies. In Islamic tradition, the seven planets are not consequently called jinn, but also ruhanniya (as a reference to the "spirits inhabiting the planets") and are not a reflection of genuine jinn belief, although some source do identify them as jinn. Yet, since in Arabic every "invidible being" can be jinn, the designation of "jinn" does not suffice to be significant for a jinn-article, or else it also needs to include angels and turning the focus of the article in "spirits in Islam" in general. It should be noted however, that in modern times, according to Magic and Divination in Early Islam, the seven planets are frequently identified with jinn or at least jinn-like entities. However, the concept behind that is more related to Hellenistic Planet Worship, and less to genuine Islamic (including the entire culture) jinn-beliefs.
Carboni, Stefano writes in "The Book of Surprises (Kitab al-bulhan) of The Bodleian Library.":
 "In the Kitab al-bulhan a couple of images are missing in this section on the jinns and we can refer to the Ottoman copies in order to reconstruct the full series of the seven ‘Kings of the Jinns’, each one connected with a specific day of the week, an angel, a planet and a metal following many literary treatises on magic and talismans."
and
Among the extant illustrations in the Kitab al-bulhan, the ‘Red King’ (al-malik al�ahmar) is the jinn of Tuesday and here the talismanic symbols are evident both in the monotonous repetition of individual letters (in this case, the letter ‘ta’), and numbers, and in the so-called ‘spectacle symbols’ originally deriving from the Kabbalah or other mystical and magical traditions (fol. 31r). The Red King of Tuesday has a close relationship with Mars, the planet of war, and is consequently depicted as a monstrous being riding a lion while holding a sword and a severed head.
Thus, the idea of jinn-kings are int he citations linked to the planets.
An excerpt from "Saif, Liana. The Arabic influences on early modern occult philosophy.", sheds more light on that matter (and I would add this to the article Worship of heavenly bodies then): The word used in these Arabic texts to denote spirit is ruhaniyya. In the Picatrix, which Hermann could have read in Arabic, the author explains that the knowledge of the correspon�dences of things and their astral origins is essential in order to invite the ruhaniyyat to bestow their powers into a talisman or ritual.65 But he adds that we must prepare our spirits by theurgic rituals in order to commu�nicate our will to the stars and their ruhaniyyat. 66 It is notable that in magic these ruhaniyyat tend to be endowed with more personality and a level of tangibility, in contrast with the ruhaniyyat we encounter in the context of natural philosophy and astrology. In the Picatrix we read: The ruhaniyya may appear in the spiritual world [of the magus] as a person that converses and teaches him what he desires, it may endear him to kings and sultans, tie and unravel any matter he wills [... ] and answer the caller with what he wants [... ] talismans are the most Celestial Souls and Cosmic Daemons 181 powerful choice for attracting a ruhaniyya [ ... ] and that is because the natural properties, through the ruhaniyya, can perform wondrous acts singlehandedly.
Special attention should be paid to this part though: reconciled in the Ghaya. Peripatetic causality is used to account for the existence of occult properties in all things – minerals, plants, animals, anything used in a magical operation – which are given by the stars in the process of generation and corruption. Neoplatonism elucidates the power of signs and its impact on the soul of the operator whose knowledge of these signs enables her to organize the elements of magical practice towards a specific purpose. Furthermore, the spiritual powers mentioned in the text, especially those related to the stars, are explained as the multiplication and individuation of the Universal Soul through emanation, distancing them from traditional ‘demons’ or ‘devils’, Jinn or shayateen (Arabic: devils) as we shall see in detail in Chapter
Accordingly, I propose that the minor references within the body of the text can stay, to move the table to the proposed article. VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 21:39, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Paragraph Move Proposal 

message: The sentence "The Quran condemns the pre-Islamic Arabian practice of worshipping or seeking protection from them" has an incomplete citation. I tried to find the statement (or a similar one) in the source, but could not find it. On the other hand, there is a similar sounding one in "Routledge Revivals: Medieval Islamic Civilization (2006): An Encyclopedia - Volume I". Unfortunately, the Google Book review is not transparent about the page number. It can be said, however, that the statement is under the entry 'Jinn'. The statement in question goes as follows: "The most important source for understanding the concept of jinn in Islam is the Qur'an, which strongly condemns the worship of the jinn by the Arabs before Islam and their search for protection from them (72:6)." Should we simply replace "South Asian Folklore: An Encyclopedia" by "Routledge Revivals: Medieval Islamic Civilization"? (maybe this was even the original source and then things got messed up during some edits). VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 13:48, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page Number request 

message: @TheEagle107 makes constantly disruotive edits I have a go soon, so maybe somone else could keep an eye on them. In my opinion, the User needs to be reported and banned, however @Bookku can still muster good faith, I found myself unable to. They constantly say something, and then you check it, it is just not true. I for my part User is simply motivated by religious bias as seen in their refusal of accepting basic Jargon and interfering unreliable sources in their recent comments here, while at least some users it seems they are considered to be simply struggling to understand the meaning of these guidlines (or not familar with them themselves). What is the opinion on others regarding their edits? VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 16:50, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: The issue is now referred to Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard#POV tagging : please guide about Jinn. Pl give there your sides in 150- 200 words  without personalizing; Soon proceeding to RfC formatting so urging patience from both sides.  Bookku    (talk) 17:10, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, since he vandlied again, I reported him. Hoepfully he just gets deleted. Especially since he started spamming my talkpage. Enough is enough. VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 17:16, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems Eagle is edit warring/engaging in WP:DE. Objecting to use of "Mythology" in section title does not entail all section content should be deleted. I think it should be kept. Pogenplain (talk) 17:25, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

text: If you can make sense out of the user, go ahead. With best efforts, I do not get through them. I think I made multiple times clear that the issues are. But with their last response, I just think they do not understand what is said. Neither their posted wikiguidliens make sense, nor their templates, nor their responses on the talkpage. For example, they said I would have said taht jinn are not an essential part of Islam previously, and listed about 10 sources stating otherwise. The thing is, neither I nor the article said that. Quite contrarily, the article does say that jinn are essential to Islam and was once added by myself. If you can communicate with the User properly, go ahead, I give up on them. Either they do not want to understand me or is not able to, this is not mine to decide. VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 03:32, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

text: I have only one direct question: Where are the sources that say that jinn are mythical creatures? Well, after more than a month of discussion and providing many sources that support my position, the user's answer was the sky is blue, while the first sentence in the lead  states that jinn are invisible creatures! 
Anyway, for my part, I will accept the consensus of Wikipedia editors whatever it is, and I hope the other user will do the same. Peace.
TheEagle107 (talk) 03:21, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

text: Serious question. Do you really not understand what people write you? Because this would explain a lot of your responses and replies. Until know, I just assumed you have a religious personal bias, but if you really quote the correct comment, yet fail to grasp its meaning, when I might have been mistaken about you. Nonetheless, you are required to spam my talkpage, or you will have been on the admin-page again soon (this is not a threat but a clarification). VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 03:30, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

text: If you are seriously requesting a source, it would have suffices to check the article. By the way, when someone responses to you and there are blue letters, it is a link usually related to the response. You need to click on it for more details about the arguement (or to read into the topic). For example, the meaning of "mythological cerature" would have been explained to you as here: "A legendary creature (also called a mythical or mythological creature) is a type of fantasy entity, typically a hybrid, that has not been proven and that is described in folklore (including myths and legends), but may be featured in historical accounts before modernity." If you had clicked on it, we would not have needed any discussion about it. VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 03:46, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disruptive edits and refusal to elaborate on the talkpage 

message: *My suggestion:
**Change heading to something like Comparative belief/mythology 
**trim section
**change opening sentence: 
::In Comparative mythology, scholars discuss the relationship between Islamic notions of jinn and earlier Jewish and Christian ideas of supernatural beings or preternatural creatures, especially those of angels, spirits, and demons. 
:to  something like
::Islamic notions of jinn have been compared by scholars to earlier Jewish and Christian ideas of supernatural beings or preternatural creatures, especially those of angels, spirits, and demons. --Louis P. Boog (talk) 01:33, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion