Talk:Uprising of Asen and Peter

message: This is apparently a pretty delicate subject, because the early 20th centuries nationalist historians (both Romanian and Bulgarian) tried to use it for their own purposes:
# Romanians said that Bulgarians at the time had a very low cultural level and couldn't rule themselves and that's why the Vlachs had to initiate the revolt.
# Bulgarians tried to minimize the importance of the Romanian element in the revolt, despite the fact that the chronicles say that the Vlachs actually started it.
Stephenson (see references) said that most of those historical works are rubbish and he based his research on primary sources, mostly from Nicetas Choniates, who was a contemporany with the rebellion. 
Why the name: "Vlach-Bulgar Rebellion"? well, that's the name Stephenson used. AFAIK, Wolff didn't used a name, he just said "the rebllion" or something. :-) bogdan 23:47, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: No Bulgars took part in the rebellion. The Bulgarians had formed as a nationality many centuries earlier, as either Slavs and Bulgars had mixed or Slavs had assimilated Bulgars. So, the name is factually wrong.  → Тодор Божинов / Todor Bozhinov → Talk 16:16, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move page? 

message: Removing completely the Vlachs from the article is not acceptable. The historical sources talk about the Vlachs as an important part of this rebellion. 
If you dispute Paul Stephenson's or Wolff's writings, we should go back to the contemporany Byzantine and Western sources. Stephenson has lots of citations to the original medieval documents (and so does Wolff), so it would not be a big deal to source each affirmation in this article to the original sources, instead of to texts of modern scholarship. 
But if you want that, I'll ask you to do the same. bogdan 22:59, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My fellow Bulgarian's point of view is certainly a bit one-sided and not appropriate, but I have to say he has a bit of right that currently the article emphasizes too much on the Vlachs, while this was actually the rebellion that revived the Bulgarian Empire, and although the Vlachs' role and participation is undeniable, much more has to be written about the role of the Bulgarians in the rebellion, which was likely more important. But I don't blame you, you as a Romanian are certainly more interested in Romanian history and have presented things the way you view them.  → Тодор Божинов / Todor Bozhinov → 18:16, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You may add more info on the Bulgarian part of the rebellion, but you shouldn't remove info on the Romanian part of the rebellion just to balance things out. --Candide, or Optimism 05:29, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removing the Vlachs. 

message: I have now reviewed the whole article on the basis of R. L. Wolff's well-documented paper cited in the bibliography. There was actually very little adjusting of the recorded facts in the article! I hope there isn't any now. I have removed the "disputed" template. Andrew Dalby 16:42, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: PS. The details of the "Who were the 12th century Vlachs?" dispute, begun by Uspenskii (named above) as long ago as 1879 and fiercely fought for about 100 years, is a byway of 19th/20th century nationalism. I suppose we could have a separate article on it: I don't think it needs to intrude further into this article, which is about the 12th century, not the 20th. Andrew Dalby 16:53, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Dear alby, now this article sounds more seriously. You are quite right, a new article about the disputes around medieval Vlachs is more than necessary. I'm afraid this task is very complicated because of its immense and branched chronological, spatial and historiographical range. Accept my regards, Jackanapes 21:22, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Jackanapes, I put back one "Vlachs", as quoted by Nicetas Choniates. We can't rewrite Nicetas Choniates: he said what he said, and he's dead now. I took out the statement that the chapel was built "at their major city of Turnovo" because I think it's fantasy. But I'd love it if you would cite a historical source that proves me wrong! Andrew Dalby 21:30, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

text: alby, it is not fantasy that you obviously don't know fundamental facts about Turnovo. I'm so sorry for your edit war! - Jackanapes 21:42, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Disputed text revised

message: I was beginning to add source references, but they are getting caught in a little edit war. I don't do them, so I'll drop it. Others who want to add sourced statements and further references to the article, please do it (including those above!) Andrew Dalby 10:01, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Adding source references 

message: Българи, не позволявайте румънската пропаганда тук! Не ни стига македонистката, сега защо трябва да допуснем и румънците да крадат историята ни! 141.30.216.38 (talk) 21:47, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Пропаганда