Talk:Knights Who Say "Ni!"

message: Ni! JIP | Talk 14:07, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As any fool can plainly hear, it's Icky icky icky f'tang niiuwom nyaoum.  —Tamfang 06:31, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Closed captioning?  Not reliable.  Especially with gibberish.  PrometheusX303 11:30, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Old Discussions 

message: Is there any evidence at all that the knights' saying "Ni" has anything at all to do with the T-V distinction in Swedish? --Angr/ 20:57, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems far-fetched to me. The Pythons were pretty smart chaps, but that seems a bit obscure for them. I'm sure it's just a nonsense syllable chosen for its absurdity and alliteration with "Knights." You can call me Al 12:22, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  What makes it mildly plausible to me is that I've heard that in Norway circa 1970 there was a campaign to stamp out the pronoun Ni (which had become offensive to some), complete with badges declaring "I don't say Ni!".  —Tamfang 06:28, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  For ‘Norway’ read Sweden: Du-reformen. —Tamfang (talk) 08:57, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  The T-V distinction in Swedish? 

message: Six years down the line ...
Back in the late 1980s Graham Chapman came to speak at Syracuse, where I was then a sophomore (I think it was then). While he was taking audience questions, some (slightly drunk, I suspect) impatient person in the audience asked loudly where this bit had come from.
He explained that one of the other Pythons (Terry Jones, maybe?) had a friend who was a librarian somewhere, and had the habit of, between words when he wasn't done speaking, repeating "Mne, mne, mne, mne". That evolved into this bit in the movie.
If this is true, I think, it's likely that even though Chapman himself is no longer around to verify it, one of the other Pythons would remember this as well and perhaps have mentioned it somewhere or written it down. We should look that up. Daniel Case (talk) 02:50, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: From one of the horse's mouths

message: The article has them as "Ni", "Ping" and "Nu-whomp" while I've also seen 'Peng', and 'Neee-wom' PrometheusX303 01:55, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It sounds more like "Neee-wom" to me. -    nathanrdotcom (T • C • W) 05:04, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sacred Words 

message: they utter the word "ni" (pronounced [ni]).
Couldn't someone put a better pronunciation guide than just writing the word over? David Duchovny 07:11, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That is hilarious. IPA yo. Blindsuperhero 23:18, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ni? 

message: Something confuses me about the two scenes in which the Knights who say Ni appear, in both scenes the word it is said but the knights are uneffected. In the first scene Arthur asks them "What is it you want?" and in the second scene the head knight says "It is a good shrubbery, I like the laurels particularly."
: Hey.  It's Monty Python. It's not Monty Perfect. You'd blow a gasket if you tried to anylise their work. Prometheus-X303- 23:22, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  It 

message: The passage says Rick James bitch, though a friend of mine distinctly remembers Peanut Butter Jelly Time being the new phrase, though he saw it in Toronto? Is it different by venue, or simply random or what? --Mattgcn 17:35, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spamalot 

message: You grab your axe to attack a tree with all your strength.
As you approach a tree, you are suddenly surrounded! 
You fall to the ground paralyzed as a group of towering knights start shouting at you in a menacing tone!
'NI! NI! NI!' 
However, you recover soon enough to realize that in actuality, they are more annoying than dangerous. 
For some odd reason, you pick up a herring and chop down one of the trees in the forest.
You harness the power of 'NI' to attack other creatures!
You've completed Phase 1 of work in the lumber yard. It only took you one turn.
it also gives you a 30 round buff in which before you attack you say Ni! Ni! Ni!
when it runs out its you now say Ecky, Ecky, Ecky, Ecky, P'tang, Zoo Boing! Goodem-zoo-owli-zhiv
--God þe mid sie, WhiteWolf 19:48, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference to the movie from Legend of the Green Dragon

message: When I find my copy of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy Radio Scripts, I'll add it in, but for now, in case someone else has the book and can do it ... in the notes about the radio scripts, Douglas Adams says he once wrote a margin comment on a moment in HHG that was similar to the request for a "shrubbery," only to find that the transcriptionist typing up his notes had dutifully typed "(SHRUBBERY)" into the script. Wish I could remember what scene he was commenting on... Lawikitejana 07:46, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  HHG Radio Scripts reference 

message: I just reverted back to the IPA that I added, since I just relistened to the clip on youtube and while one person says something more like a short "knee" type, most of them use the pronunciation that I added which used a more closed vowel as in nip. --Slp1 22:15, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This might be an interesting issue to resolve. I also went and watched the skit again, and it sounded more like a clipped "knee" to me. But, of course, our personal opinions are not really relevant, and I'm not sure if we are going to find a reliable, third-party published source that gives us a confirmed pronunciation on this. Any thoughts on the best way to settle this difference of opinion? -- Satori Son 13:07, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry I had not seen your discussion here Slp1 before reverting you this morning (I will blame pre-shower blurriness). However, I agree with Satori Son, it is most definitely an ee sound. Nip is more of a ih sound, which it definitely isn't. Much like Alma Cogan (sorry, bad reference to the Holy Grail soundtrack CD). They say Nee not Nih. Also note that I switched to the  template, but I don't grok IPA myself. They also say Nee in Spamalot. — RevRagnarok Talk Contrib 13:36, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Up to you guys, since this is fairly low priority issue for me!  But I will say that I have years of experience with IPA and ear-training and such, and I did listen very carefully to the film clip 3-4 times, and I stand by my transcription of the most common pronunciation!  But like I said different people say it differently even within the film clip, so whatever.   --Slp1 14:49, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation 

message: Am I the only one sorely, sorely tempted to move this page to Knights who say ecky-ecky-ecky-ecky-p'tang, zzoo-boing, gdgdbaaoizen?  Indeed; would such a move be appropriate?  They are now called the latter name, after all.  See, for example, Siam.  Jouster  (whisper) 14:12, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not appropriate.  See, WP:COMMONNAME. Still...redirects are cheap.-Verdatum (talk) 22:47, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Wait, nevermind, probably shouldn't redirect per R3 in WP:CSD. -Verdatum (talk) 22:51, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move 

message: I have added a you tube link to the actual clip. If you don't like my clip or how I've linked to it please outline what sort of shrubbery you would like and I will deliver one. And I might need a herring. Shanebb 18:21, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: its a copyvio - we don't link to them. Spartaz Humbug! 22:56, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Youtube link 

message: This should be nominated and rated by Wiki. One of the better articles in the database Naacats 03:23, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: First, "Wiki" does not rate anything.  A wiki is just a program.  Second, no, it isn't one of the better articles by a long shot.  Is fails numerous aspects of Writing About Fiction. -Verdatum (talk) 14:48, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nominate this 

message: I don't believe the MMORPG references serve as a signifigant improvement of the article.  Per WP:HTRIV I believe this sort of information should be removed and left out.
:I agree that the MMO references may not be significant, but The Simpsons is a very popular, long-running show and it's reference should be included. Also, the Knights are very often quoted in many mediums, and some examples should be listed. The entire section should not have been deleted.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mjworthey (talk • contribs) 21:43, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The Simpsons may be popular, but reference in question was a one time only, single line joke from a singular episode.  Furthermore, because the show has been around so long, they've mentioned nearly everything in existence (See the South Park episode Simpsons Did It.  The problem with mentioning some examples, is other editors think it is nessisary to mention all examples.  This brings on an edit war. -Verdatum (talk) 22:33, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  In Popular culture 

message: Since it's the Knights Who say Ni, should the Ni being in quotes ("Ni").  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Golem866 (talk • contribs) 22:41, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: If it were a description, in Wikipedia's own voice, we could use italics or quotation marks (see MOS:WAW). But it's a proper name, from the script itself, a self-label by the knights, albeit a sillier one than "Knights of the Round Table" or "Knights of Gibraltar".  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  03:58, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ni or "Ni" 

message: Unless someone can provide a reference for shrubbery as slang for prostitute I'm going to delete this. Whoever wrote this is also missing the point by interpreting a piece of sheer silliness as a double-entendre dirty joke. Tigerboy1966 (talk) 13:52, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree, and I've removed the uncited reference . Cheers, –xenotalk 14:05, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

text: There's no reliable source suggesting a connection between that slang term and the usage of the word in the film, so it shouldn't be in this article. See WP:No original research policy.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  03:59, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not in the article, having been removed almost eight years ago.  This discussion has been moot for a long time; no need to bump it six years after the last reply.  P Aculeius (talk) 04:53, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Right, didn't notice the date.  Was concerned someone might try to re-add it; this page has had a whole lot of OR on it, and the article itself has had to have multiple forms of speculation removed from it.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  23:04, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, didn't mean to sound snippy.  I'm just used to considering old discussions as irrelevant, having been acted on (or not) at the time.  Thanks for keeping an eye on this one!  P Aculeius (talk) 02:17, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

text: I'm not sure why it's necessary to keep bumping a conversation that was resolved nine years ago.  There's no evidence that the dialogue carries a sexual meaning merely because it contains words that could be given one—albeit without any logical connection with what the dialogue actually refers to in the film.  Almost any words can be given a sexual meaning, but that doesn't justify ignoring their ordinary meaning absent any hint of a sexual context.  And without evidence, there's no justification for including such an interpretation here.  P Aculeius (talk) 23:03, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shrubbery slang for prostitute????? 

message: I used to have a European History professor at my university and he was from Britain. Monty Python and the Holy Grail came out in 1974. Before we had the European Union (established 1993) we had the European Community (EC) It turns out that many of the jokes such as cows catapulted over the walls had to do with politics in Europe. The EC originally started with 6 nations (1945) then went to nine nations in 1973 and had grown to 12 nations by the mid-1980's. The EC's original goal was to create a common market where goods and services would trade freely without any international tariff's and where all businesses in any of those countries would be on equal footing. 
I used to think the cows catapulted over the walls were really funny and that someone had to smoke a lot of pot to think of something that crazy - it turns out that at the time the movie was made the French were recently accused of "dumping beef" on the international market. [Because of government subsidies they could sell their beef at prices lower than cost in an attempt to drive foreign competitors out of business.] Back to the Knights who say Ni.   During that time the EC member states had to vote unanimously on every rule that was passed and applied. There was one nation (I think Denmark) who would wait until all members was close to agreeing on the exact wording of a rule and at the last minute they would make a demand to have something written into the law or they threatened to veto the entire thing. At the time many of the British thought these last second demands were trifling. Monty Python turned this into a humorous skit as the Knights who say Ni. Ni is a variation of the word "no" in some dialects in the northern mainland Europe. Thus the Knights were in fact threatening to say no (to veto a law) unless something trifling (bring a shrubbery) was done to please them.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.88.93.140 (talk) 20:02, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Great story.  I'd love to add something like that to the article if a good source could be found for it. <B>—Torchiest</B> talkedits 22:30, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  The old European Community and its politics in the Holy Grail 

message: I just felt like I had to delete it because it was clearly just an opinion and speculation. There is no source that backed it up, and implying that the shouts of the game are formed three words slowly based off Knights who say Ni is ridiculous.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.104.10.11 (talk) 17:54, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Nothing wrong with removing that trivial line. <B>—Torchiest</B> talkedits 18:01, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Skyrim Reference 

message: The main article dates the movie to 1975, the year after Blazing Saddles (1974), which has a black US marshal as the hero. When the whites first see him they all say "But he's a ni..." (and don't dare finish the word). This seems at least as plausible a source as the claim two sections ago that it's about Danes saying "No" at meetings of the European Community, particularly as it's terribly dangerous for anybody else to say or hear the word (and in practice nobody except racists dares say Ni even now, and the rest of us are supposed to publicly declare our horror if we hear it, though at least we can now use the euphemism "the N-word", which hadn't yet been invented in the 1970s, I think), whereas plenty of countries said and heard No at European Community meetings, and got rewarded for saying it (plus if the Python team meant No, why not say No instead of inflicting an in-joke that none of the audience will get?). Does anybody know of any RS making the connection? Tlhslobus (talk) 12:46, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the useful info, Tamfang, though, subject to correction, I think the drowning-out sounds only apply to the first white guy, so presumably the other guys don't dare finish the word, as liberals would not have dared start it, let alone finish it, in 1974 (or now) - the movie is set in the 19th century, but the comedy is obviously really about attitudes in 1974, not 1874. Tlhslobus (talk) 21:24, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: * As I misremember the scene, the first white guy is trying to tell the other townsfolk something they don't yet know; when the others do get a good look at the new marshal, they're too shocked to give voice to the obvious. —Tamfang (talk) 23:18, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks, Tamfang. As I misremember it (or as I understood/understand it), they're so shocked that they start to say the obvious, before remembering that they're not allowed say it. In the real world, both today and in 1974, they normally wouldn't even start to say it, but in the movie they have to start to say it or else there would be no joke for us to laugh at. But clearly there are other possible ways to remember/understand the scene, such as the one that you have just mentioned. Tlhslobus (talk) 23:49, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  However this conversation is not really about the Knights who say Ni, so if you want to continue it, you should perhaps do so where it properly belongs, in the Talk Page of the article about That Word, to which I've already copied most of it. Tlhslobus (talk) 00:21, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

text:  (Note: I've now also copied part of this conversation to the Talk Page of the article about That Word.) Tlhslobus (talk) 21:56, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blazing Saddles "But he's a ni..." the previous year. 

message: This page is linked from Wikipedia:Shrubbery, but all mention of the requisite vegetable item has been removed from the page. Could it be reinserted? Imaginatorium (talk) 11:53, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where is my shrubbery? 

message: Somebody has helpfully come in and added an audio link. I don't have sound on this computer, but I'm fairly sure the US pronunciation of a silly word from an English movie will be wrong. Couldn't we have the English (i.e. from England) version? Number774 (talk) 08:47, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I just removed the US pronunciation, since it obviously has nothing to do with the topic. Imaginatorium (talk) 09:07, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: This requires some explanation.  Precisely why does the pronunciation of the word "obviously have nothing to do with the topic"?  Of course it relates to the topic.  Without any kind of guide, you don't have any way to know if it's pronounced "nye", "nih", or "nee".  The argument that the US and UK pronunciations would differ in some meaningful degree is what makes no sense.  Americans don't hear a different sound when the Knights say it, and don't use a different pronunciation to say it themselves.  It's rather irrelevant whether the pronunciation us US or UK, but if you want to insist on UK, you should first make sure that it's available, and if it's not, then leave the US one, since it's perfectly adequate as an indication of how the word is pronounced.  What makes no sense is deleting it altogether, with no text or audio to indicate how it's pronounced, since it's far from obvious.  P Aculeius (talk) 13:32, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Audio