Talk:Music video game

message: Should this article be merged to rhythm computer game category?
Random guy 18:39, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: See below. -Thibbs (talk) 07:08, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Rhythm computer game

message: Where's RoXoR Games? They developed In The Groove and its sequel. 
Also, where's Andamiro? They created the whole Pump It Up series (Something like 11 games in all).
I'm sure you could consider these major players considering the lawsuits brought up against both of these companies by Konami.
:This issue has now been addressed. -Thibbs (talk) 07:07, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extra Developers 

message: I'm debating the issue at Talk:Rez. Unless someone provides a good argument for why it qualifies, I'm going to remove it from the category and remove the reference from it from this article.--Malcohol 09:59, 14 February 2006 
--Should the psp games be mentioned in this article: if not I will delrte them
:I feel like Rez has a much stronger musical component to it than many games. It's kind of a hybrid between a shooter and a music game. This article actually lists several games that would fall into this hybrid region where they are not strictly musical games but their popularity or novelty comes from the fact that they have a strong musical component. I do not think you should remove Rez, but perhaps a new section could be created just for these hybrid games. As far as the creation of a "Hybrid" section of the article goes, I'd suggest including such titles as Pteranodon, Otocky, Electroplankton, SimTunes, and most of the Q Entertainment games such as Rez, Lumines, Meteos, Every Extend Extra, and Gunpey. Thibbs (talk) 02:28, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Looking more closely Meteos really has nothing whatsoever to do with music video gaming apart from being developed by a big name music game developer so I am removing it. Thibbs (talk) 02:43, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rez a music game? 

message: "The overwhelming success of DDR and its sequels has spawned numerous re-creations of the game or its mechanics, both commercial (Pump It Up, EZ2Dancer) and free (including StepMania, which is also FOSS, and Dance With Intensity, which is not), making it possibly the most duplicated music game in existence."
Actually, Pump It Up, EZ2Dancer, and DDR are completely different games, they were just released in similar timespans (oct 1998 for DDR vs aug 1999 for PIU). Just because a game involves stepping on arrows, doesn't mean that it's a duplication of DDR. Stepmania/DWI are not duplicates, they're simulators. Spaceboy 04:30, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I haven't followed the issues closely, but I know there was a court battle over IP rights between Konami (which makes DDR) and Andamiro (which makes PUI) in 2001 or 2002 which a Korean court ruled in favor of Konami. (here is a link).  Konami also sued Amuseworld (maker of EZ2Dancer) in 2001 for IP right infringement (link here).  Apparently Konami again won.  In 2005 Konami filed suit against Roxor (maker of In The Groove) for IP rights violations (source) which they also won (in this case I believe they won the rights to In The Groove).  In The Groove is admittedly based on the Stepmania program so it would appear by inference that Stepmania might also violate DDR copyrights.  Furthermore, since Konami now owns In The Groove, it seems like whatever portions of it were based on Stepmania would now make Stepmania production fall afoul of Konami's rights (although presumably Stepmania machines made prior to the Roxor decision would at least arguably be clear of copyright infringement). As far as Dance With Intensity is concerned, I have not been able to find anything more incriminating than a Stepmania-fan's project to simulate DWI, so it seems possible to me that DWI is merely a simulator. -Thibbs (talk) 06:57, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regarding one line in the Bemani portion 

message: Regarding the links section. There are currently mostly commercial links to companies. I think we all know how fair and balanced most company PR is.
There however is also some freely available academic studies in the field which might provide new perspectives for further reading.
I remember there are more of these, but this is the only one I had bookmarked:
http://lib.tkk.fi/Diss/2007/isbn9789512287055/isbn9789512287055.pdf  
(no, I did not write it)
:I have attempted to improve the quality of the outbound links. It's a pity I did not see this earlier, but I have independently discovered and used the same source anyway. Cheers, -Thibbs (talk) 07:03, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Outbound links section 

message: As well as having RoxoR listed for their development of In the Groove, I would think lesser developers who use Stepmania as a base should also be mentioned, such as Renard and the MGD team for Mungyodance, and any other simalar stepmania based projects.  Thoughts? KurisuYamato (talk) 14:07, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a good idea, however the article on Mungyodance is currently being considered for deletion so I don't think we should add the development team until the fate of Mungyodance has been determined.  I will put a note on the talk page of Mungyodance to suggest that the editors involved with that page add it to this after the WP:AFD debates.  I could not find any information on wiki about a develoepr called Renard.  Unless there is at least an article on the game Renard created I think we should avoid including it as a major developer. -Thibbs (talk) 07:32, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lesser groups added? 

message: I've been working on a scheme to formalize the categorizations we've been using as common practice at :Category:Music video games. I have gone through WP:CAT and WP:SUBCAT in detail and I think I have come up with a good solution. My proposed scheme can be found at my sandbox and I would welcome any and all comments here or at my talk page (here might be preferable in terms of transparency). Please contribute to this discussion so that we can gain community input on this decision. Thanks! -Thibbs (talk) 19:01, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Please note that I have added this note to Category talk:Music video games also. -Thibbs (talk) 18:03, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Update: Having received some good feedback and seeing no further objections I have finalized the guidelines and will move them from userspace into :Category:Music video games either today or tomorrow. -Thibbs (talk) 18:11, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Categorization and subcategorization

message: I have changed the name of the subsection "Other Developers" to "Other major developers" in order to make explicit the structural requirement that entries placed under this subsection be considered "major." I would also suggest that in the future a developer should only be considered "major" if there is an article on it or at least one of its products. Irrespective of actual majority, if a developer has no mention on wikipedia then more likely than not it at least lacks notability. -Thibbs (talk) 18:11, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Clarifying scope of "Other Developers"

message: Most of the fair use images on this page will have to go. They're being used to decorate, rather than for critical commentary. Stifle (talk) 21:18, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fair use images 

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replies: text:  Issue addressed for all six files. -Thibbs (talk) 18:42, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Image copyright problem with File:Bemani series logo.png

message: I realize the music game genre has a pretty wide scope. But looking closely at the class of rhythm games, I have a very reliable source that groups them as action games, in the sense that they challenge the player's physical skill (rather than strategy, tactics, economic management, and so on)... I'm going to take a closer look at this, but wanted to see what people thought about moving this genre in :Template:Video game genre. Randomran (talk) 01:29, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: First of all, thank you so much for what you're doing Randomran. Every time I tried to start this project the sheer scope of it would overwhelm me. I'm keeping an eye on developments from the sidelines, and I'll do my best to help in any way you need me. Now, as far as the regrouping of the games as action games, I've never heard of this before, and I actually find it rather unlikely. As far as I understand it, action games involve a player's use of an active character and not so much the activity of the player himself. In other words, in most action games the player can play regardless of physical skill by moving little else besides his thumbs and maybe eyes. On the other hand, many rhythm games involve no character at all and require the player to physically leap around. I think what you may be thinking of is the genre of exergames which are designed to exercise a player's physical body. A paraplegic could play an action game but would have great difficulty with many exergames. Anyway, it would help to see the source you're reading from, though. Is there a link for it? -Thibbs (talk) 05:33, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Take a close look at the action game genre article. Using the source I have, it definitely concedes that avatars are important, but not necessary for an action game. It focuses much more on levels with obstacles, and testing the player's physical reaction time. Although it's not in the article, this source explicitly refers to Parappa the Rappa, and mentions that many of these rhythm and dance games involve special controls like drums or dance pads. But it doesn't change the fundamental challenge of hand-eye coordination, and reaction time. (Something that isn't the focus in, say, simulation, strategy, adventure, or role-playing games.) I wish you could take a look at the source. It's very persuasive, and does an excellent treatment of all the genres. Randomran (talk) 05:41, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well I'd be happy to take a look at the source. Is it only in hardcopy? Is it part of a magazine? If you could give me a name or title I could try to do a little google searching for it or something. I guess the thing that really gets me is that there really are no obstacles per se in rhythm games. I think of rhythm games more like puzzle games with a musical element. I mean by your definition Tetris could be called an action game but I don't think anyone would seriously say that. -Thibbs (talk) 05:48, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Check your email. The source ("Fundamentals of Game Design") is pretty authoritative. It's already incorporated into this article, but I haven't added the part about action games yet. (Mind you, I did add it to the action game article.) Randomran (talk) 06:10, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

text: OK. That sounds good to me. -Thibbs (talk) 23:38, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  action game? 

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thread_title:  External links modified