Talk:Nathaniel Hawthorne

message: OK, I intend to make some changes to the descriptions in paragraph 6 as soon as RickK stops reverting them.  There are glaring inaccuracies.  For example, "The Blithedale Romance" is not about an elixir of life.  Et cetera.
What do you say, RickK?  Bds_yahoo — Preceding unsigned comment added by George Kaplan (talk • contribs) 23:09, 26 April 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Paragraph 6

message: What is this about Hawthorne dying while on a trip to the mountains? I just read an article in the New Yorker(March 14? issue) on his relationship with Sophia and her older sister Elizabeth. The article mentions Hawthorne dying, but I got the impression that he was sick for a while at his home with his wife when he died.
Also mentioned was a biography on Elizabeth Peabody. I'll see if I can find a copy of it... — Preceding unsigned comment added by LordBertrand (talk • contribs) 03:36, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I found a site that states Hawthorne died while on a trip to the mountains, it is http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/hawthorn.htm... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.9.139.1 (talk) 03:33, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Dying

message: This section showed up yesterday, without any mention of it in discussion.  I'm just going to delete it, if no one minds.  It's uncited, unformatted, ungrammatical, and obviously unfactual.  Check the revision history if you want to see it in its full badness. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.247.209.234 (talk) 17:35, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: The Way people saw it

message: I'm removing the further information section.  It's only a sentence or so long and is simply an assertion about Hawthorne's writing and personal philosophy (with several typos including in the section header).  If it can be fleshed out and sourced it can certainly be added back.--Ahpsp 15:04, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Further Information

message: Shouldn't there be a category for Nathaniel Hawthorne's writings? Maybe :Category:Nathaniel Hawthorne writings? Nareek 13:56, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Category 

message: The current wikipedia article states "Hawthorne wrote in the comparative obscurity of what he called his "owl's nest" in the family home." According to "Elements of Literature: Fifth Course Literature of the United States. Edited by Kathleen Daniel. Published by Holt, Rinehart, and Winston. 1997. it was actually known as the "dismal chamber", can someone with editor rights please include this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.131.130.132 (talk) 19:51, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The "owl's nest" reference is from a letter Hawthorne wrote to Longfellow on June 4, 1837.  From this same letter derives the footnoted quote in this article: "I have not lived, but only dreamed about living."  I found this letter in The Viking Portable Hawthorne, edited by Malcolm Cowley. For an online source, see this page from Nathaniel Hawthorne by George Woodberry, where it is quoted.    Here is the passage in question:"Not to burden you with my correspondence, I have delayed a rejoinder to your very kind and cordial letter, until now. It gratifies me that you have occasionally felt an interest in my situation; but your quotation from Jean Paul about the 'lark's nest' makes me smile. You would have been much nearer the truth if you had pictured me as dwelling in an owl's nest; for mine is about as dismal, and like the owl I seldom venture abroad till after dusk."In that same letter, a little further down on the linked page, Hawthorne again uses the image: "I intend in a week or two to come out of my owl's nest, and not return till late in the summer."While looking for an online source of this "owl's nest" phrase, I found that he used it later in life as well.  In Julian Hawthorne's biography of his parents, Nathaniel Hawthorne and His Wife (1884), the following link to Chapter 3, Part I includes a quotation from what Julian Hawthorne described as "the only trustworthy autobiographical fragment" of Hawthorne "known to be extant," which was "comprised in the following few paragraphs which he wrote out for his friend Stoddard, who was compiling an 'article' on him for the National Review, 1853." Here is the relevant passage from that autobiographical piece:"From the press of Munroe & Co., Boston, in the year 1837, appeared 'Twice-Told Tales.' Though not widely successful in their day and generation, they had the effect of making me known in my own immediate vicinity; insomuch that, however reluctantly, I was compelled to come out of my owl's nest and lionize in a small way. Thus I was gradually drawn somewhat into the world, and became pretty much like other people. My long seclusion had not made me melancholy or misanthropic, nor wholly unfitted me for the bustle of life; and perhaps it was the kind of discipline which my idiosyncrasy demanded, and chance and my own instincts, operating together, had caused me to do what was fittest."It would appear, then, that Hawthorne referred to his room as both an owl's nest, as in the above quotations, and as a dismal chamber, as referenced by yourself.  - InvisibleSun 22:58, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It might be good to use both phrases, as you get a better sense of what Hawthorne meant from both. Nareek 00:00, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Information discrepency

message: I am unable to find substantiation for the following comments:
:"Prior to gaining fame, Hawthorne wrote several highly sexual and pornographic stories for sailors under an assumed name (this writing style would emerge in later stories as shown by Lora Romero's article, "Homosocial Romance: Nathaniel Hawthorne")."
The trufulness of this seems unlikely (the Romero article is not available for free online), but it has remained unchanged for a few days so it is possible I am wrong to think it is inaccurate. Could someone please provide a reference or remove this passage. Philip Cross 17:34, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This was just part of some ongoing vandalism to the article.  It's now deleted. - InvisibleSun 18:41, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Pornographic stories

message: Is this reference a spoof? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Adf3comcast (talk • contribs) 15:37, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  When Mars Attacks 

message: I have some theories that I have made up regarding Nathaniel Hawthorne, and I wish to air them in the section entitled "Theories".  I ask that 2-3 Wikipedians sign on to these conjectures so that they will have a sufficient number of believers to merit inclusion under the obviously high standards used thus far.
1.) Although Nathaniel Hawthorne's works are commonly presumed to have been written by Nathaniel Hawthorne, space aliens wrote them.
2.) Franklin Pierce and Nathaniel Hawthorne were the same person.  Think about it.
3.) A complex theory, still in development, involving a menage a trois between Sophia Peabody, Nathaniel Hawthorne, and Franklin Pierce
Affix your name below to signal your belief in the above theories.  Thank you for any help. Bill Oaf 10:48, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  I have some theories 

message: I created a navigation box for Hawthorne based on the one for Edgar Allan Poe. It's not perfect, but it's a start. Unless other editors think it's unnecessary, I will start adding it to the bottom of all the articles on Hawthorne's works. Midnightdreary 15:37, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Navigation Box 

message: I've added in a bibliography for this author, per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (lists of works)--Alabamaboy 00:45, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll say it here as I did on the article for Charles Dickens. That manual of style doesn't seem to say anything about requiring bibliography lists but just how to format them if you choose to do it (or, really, how to set up a separate article on it such as Bibliography of Jorge Luis Borges). So I vote for removing it. Alternatively, a separate article works for me too. =) --Midnightdreary 02:16, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the list of major works as it currently exists is fine. If the bibliography started to get much long, we'd fork the excess into its own article. But there would still need to be a short bibliography in this article. But since the main discussion on all of this is taking place at Talk:Charles_Dickens#Bibliography, why don't we continue talking there and go by what the consensus there is.--Alabamaboy 13:35, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I suppose I still disagree that there needs to be a bibliography. One of the criticisms from peer reviews and featured article status reviews of the Edgar Allan Poe page was that there was too much junk in it and not enough biography (fyi: there is no bibliography for Poe, and his is officially at good article status). Couldn't the same argument be made here as well?  --Midnightdreary 14:40, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bibliography 

message: The article states that Hawthorn attended college from 1821 - 1825 and joined DKE while he was there.  The DKE article says DKE was founded at Yale in 1844 which is 19 years after Hawthorne graduates.
Selhini 05:56, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: According to this DKE link, the chapter at Bowdoin (where Hawthorne went to college) wasn't founded until 1844.  Hawthorne's son Julian became a member of DKE while at Harvard (see this link to his memoirs, where Part III has a subtitle "Football — Initiation into Delta Kappa Epsilon.")  Perhaps a confusion of father and son? - InvisibleSun 23:17, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds like it to me! I've removed the sentence. Thanks to Selhini for catching that and to InvisibleSun for doing some legwork. This just goes to show that this article really needs to be cleaned up and fully referenced! --Midnightdreary 00:45, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  DKE Reference 

message: Twice now, different editors have added that Poe's criticism of Hawthorne was in part due to his opium use. Besides that the source cited at the end of the sentence doesn't support it, it's not NPOV and possibly original research. Of course, what really should keep it out of the article is that it's now understood that Poe was not an opium addict (and probably not even a user). So, please don't add that information again. --Midnightdreary (talk) 17:57, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Poe criticism 

message: Currently, everything written in the criticism section is actually PRAISE.  Either the title or the content should be changed, you think?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.247.6.167 (talk) 23:25, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, "criticism" does encompass both the good and the bad. Certainly, the section can be expanded. --Midnightdreary (talk) 14:23, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

text: Poe did not use opium. That's a myth that's spread by 7th grade English teachers. Sorry to disappoint. --Midnightdreary (talk) 13:44, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

text: So, help out and find them and add them, so long as they are sourced. Although, personally, I think contemporary views are more relevant. 24.3.53.171 (talk) 16:30, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Fine, let's cut out everything noncontemporary on, say, Emily Dickinson and Moby Dick...--Janneman (talk) 19:45, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Whoa, settle down for a second and assume good faith. No one was suggesting removing anything from anywhere. --Midnightdreary (talk) 23:00, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism section 

message: Does it bother anybody else that the Marriage and family section reads: " . . he had become engaged in 1836 to . . . Sophia Peabody . . After 3 years of engagement, Hawthorne married Sophia Peabody on July 9, 1842 . ."   If somebody can verify the dates, he/she should correct the text.  Thanks in advance.Raymondwinn (talk) 16:37, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll look into it, probably not for a few days though. My guess is that someone came in and changed the date as a subtle form of vandalism. --Midnightdreary (talk) 21:21, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Possible discrepancy in engagement length

message: Over all a very good paper... I have one question. You never gave any information on Mellow. You used information from him/her but never told the name of the book or first name, etc.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.139.230.251 (talk) 18:28, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mellow? 

message: same problem with McFarland... am I just missing something? hannah.joy. (talk) 00:37, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You need to scroll down! See Nathaniel Hawthorne#Sources. --Midnightdreary (talk) 02:26, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks! That's helpful... :D 69.139.230.251 (talk) 17:49, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  McFarland? 

message: This section is much too cursory for an author of Hawthorne's stature. The section does not delve into his novels in any detail nor does it really explain his writing style. Two sentences are insufficient to explain this! Also, the section does not even refer to Hawthorne's famous short stories. Awadewit (talk) 03:32, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: As a source, I would recommend starting with The Cambridge Companion to Hawthorne. In the back of the book, there is a "Selected bibliography" that will guide you to important scholarship on Hawthorne. Awadewit (talk) 20:41, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I've got all the sources, just don't have the time. This is probably my least favorite of the GAs I've done. Anyone out there willing to collaborate? --Midnightdreary (talk) 01:03, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Literary styles and themes" 

message: In the very first sentence of this paragraph:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathaniel_Hawthorne#Marriage_and_family
The pronouns are unclear.
"...that he would get married before him." This ambiguity caused me a good deal of confusion until I realized that I had understood the pronoun-antecedent link incorrectly. If someone qualified to do so could fix that error, it would make this article a bit more informative. Thank-you.
Sincerely,
A grateful Wikipedia user  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.187.73.154 (talk) 20:17, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ambiguous sentence 

message: I have added a "citation needed" to the sentence in the lead that says, "Nathaniel was also a homosexual." It was not cited and the fact did not recur again in the article. Does anyone know whether this is true or not? Whether or not it is true, I don't think it belongs in the lead.... Can anyone help?
HCOtis (talk) 19:41, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It's vandalism. If something like that is not referenced, it should be removed and stay removed. Thanks. --Omarcheeseboro (talk) 19:52, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sexual Orientation 

message: The name of daughter Rose should be highlighted and expanded, Rose Hawthorne Lathrop, which appears as a Wikipedia biography and the two entries should be linked. ˜˜˜˜  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wjpease (talk • contribs) 04:53, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: In the context of the article as it currently stands, there is no need to mention her married name; she was not married at the time of her father's death. There is, however, a full-length article on Rose, which is already linked by clicking on her name in this article. --Midnightdreary (talk) 15:11, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rose Hawthorne 

message: What journals/notebooks of his survive? What has been published? -96.237.4.73 (talk) 22:01, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Journals 

message: I changed the publication date for this book from 1852 to 1851 as per the Library of America, Benet's Reader's Encyclopedia of American Lit, and the copyright page of the book itself as seen here: http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=rbc3&fileName=rbc0001_2003holmes00414page.db&recNum=13  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.81.14.25 (talk) 00:03, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Wonder-Book for Boys and Girls 

message: Editors of Hawthorne's page may find useful material in the few paragraphs I just added to flesh out the H-M friendship at Herman Melville, keyed to Robertson-Lorant's Melville biography. It's inevitably from a Melvillean point of view, but still you may find something useful there. Feel free to use it, and to ask me any information about the sources the book uses.MackyBeth (talk) 17:44, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Hawthorne-Melville friendship 

message: I took the liberty of boldly editing the rich paragraph starting "Critics have applied..." in Nathaniel Hawthorne#Literary styles and themes.
It struck me as disproportionately long, especially for biographical article; at nearly 500 words, it was itself longer than most of the other whole sections. It also contained unclear or technical language: "figurations of transformative potential," "potentiality as agency of transformation"; WP:Peacock ("stalwart") or unencyclopedic: "cynosural women... who serve as unambiguous allegorical foci..."; "protagonistas" (not in any of my five dictionaries or online); "unpardonably sinned-against". Major judgments were unsourced.
Rupkatha Journal of Interdisciplinary Studies in the Humanities is a reputable publication held by a number of libraries, but the reference to  article was evidently placed there by himself. It was removed (at least twice) by  per WP:COI September 1, 2014. It was finally replaced by L.O Gabriel, who also inserted Splendora into the Stephen Crane article in October 2014 here
For parallel and perhaps congruent editing see:
L.O. Gabriel User Contributions and Anthony Splendora User Contributions. Their contributions are only to these two articles.
ch (talk) 05:41, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edits on paragraph "Critics have applied...." 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: An editor recently added a hidden note that the article's section on "Criticism" was an inappropriate title as it does not include any criticism. I'm looking at it and seeing there are critical responses from people like Melville, Poe, John Neal, Harold Bloom, et al. I'm curious what the editor thinks is lacking (unless that editor defines "criticism" only as negative?). I have reverted the hidden note as it seems so obviously inappropriate. --Midnightdreary (talk) 11:44, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I support Midnightdreary's assessment here. The section could always be improved, but it's certainly not lacking in critical responses from relevant figures. --Dugan Murphy (talk) 17:11, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism 

message: I see Whipples scathing review of the scarlet letter tossed around quite a lot, but I don’t think it should be mentioned without contrasting it with the modern day fame it has achieved. A reader would get the impression that it’s literary significance is much more minute than it actually is. 2603:6010:11F0:3C0:4111:6F56:6969:3736 (talk) 00:35, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: "Tossed around quite a lot"? It's mentioned once. There is additional information about the book's literary merits and impact both here and on the article for The Scarlet Letter already. Can you clarify what your concern is? --Midnightdreary (talk) 12:29, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Whipple  

message: What is the background of nathaniel hawthrone 112.198.112.143 (talk) 23:45, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you please be more specific about your question and how you are looking for us to improve this Wikipedia article? --Midnightdreary (talk) 13:40, 30 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  English 

message: "Luisa" is mentioned in the article as the youngest sister, but when was she born? An article at https://streetsofsalem.com/2020/04/04/the-death-of-nathaniel-hawthornes-little-sister/ indicates her given names were "Maria Luisa" and that her birth date was 1802, which latter is actually when the older sister Elizabeth was born. Has anyone access to information about Maria Luisa, aside from her death by drowning in 1852? Myron (talk) 20:56, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nathaniel's younger sister 

message: The Phillips Library digitized and released a significant chunk of their collection of primary source material created by Hawthorne and his wife Sophia at: https://pem.quartexcollections.com/collections/hawthorne-collection This includes copies of "The Spectator" as well as correspondence. Since I'm employed by the library, I believe I'm suppose to suggest this as an addition to the external links section, rather than add it myself. DigitizingArchives (talk) 19:33, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi , thanks for putting your request on the talk page since you're an employee. There was already a link to Phillips Library but I replace it with the more specific link you provided. Victoria (tk) 20:01, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adding links