Talk:Homer Davenport

message: Montanabw - here's a few links to photographs, etc in the Library of Congress. I do NOT know the copyright status on these. Photograph Photograph2 Ealdgyth | Talk 21:11, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: See my comments in the Babson article.  You can probably chance it if the site is maintained by the US Government, check the wiki guidelines, but generally if I can't find a copyright of any other sort, I'll consider it US Gov't work and call it good. Montanabw 04:45, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Though this article is improving, there is still an issue with the unencyclopedic tone. Items like "great food" at a festival and "free-thinking" parents do not meet wikipedia guidelines. Same with "work became so influential" and "penchant" and other peacock terms. See in general WP:MOS and WP:BETTER. Aboutmovies 05:35, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The way this article was initially written strikes me as a copyvio, but I can't find a source on the Internet, so perhaps it is copied from a book? Here's the diff from when the language with questionable tone was added, if anyone can get ahold of the books and check if they have been copied verbatim. Katr67 21:42, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I spent about four hours last night trying to get rid of the worst stuff, I missed the bit about food, will fix that.  FYI, if you want to help fix the peacock adjectives, go for it.  My original stake in this was the Arabian horse stuff, and the rest was originally someone else's work, so whatever we can fix, I am all for working together.  I think the original editors may have abandoned it.  Montanabw(talk) 23:09, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds good, I just didn't want to get into an edit war with someone trying to promote this person/the annual festival. I'll see what I can do to tone it down. Aboutmovies 23:47, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I tweaked it some, I suppose it doesn't really have to be in there, though the fact that the guy has his own festival is of some interest.  Feel free to fix, I have no investment in that bit. Montanabw(talk) 21:53, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tone 

message: Materials for future article expansion and improvement.  Montanabw(talk) 19:44, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Fun stuff, great sources!  Thank you! (I actually own Bred for Perfection, forgot that bit was in there...!)  Montanabw(talk) 00:41, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Here is the Rider and Driver source. . Froggerlaura ribbit 02:08, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I have some bios of Hanna, and I know there's coverage of Davenport in bios of Hearst.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:37, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

text: Whatever it is, we'll deal with it.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:46, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for raising this at talk, Frze, instead of in the article space.  The book is old,predating ISBN numbers.  "lc" is for "Library of Congress Catalogue Card Number", which is what they used at the time.  I will check WorldCat and see if I can replace it with an OCLC number.  Montanabw(talk) 04:06, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources

message: | lc = 57-12176
--Frze  > talk    20:03, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Whatever it is, we'll deal with it.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:46, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for raising this at talk, Frze, instead of in the article space.  The book is old,predating ISBN numbers.  "lc" is for "Library of Congress Catalogue Card Number", which is what they used at the time.  I will check WorldCat and see if I can replace it with an OCLC number.  Montanabw(talk) 04:06, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Conn, George H. (1972): Unknown parameter |lc= ignored 

message: Wehwalt, noting at the World's Fair, Davenport's book has a great tale of how his drawings of Arabians also upset the Bedouin who accompanied the horses because he did not draw them accurately at first (neglected to properly portray the high-carried tail that is a breed characteristic), they grabbed his drawings and tore them up.  Worth adding?  This was also where he claims origin of his lifelong passion for the Arabian horse.  Is that the best section to note this as well? Montanabw(talk) 19:45, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: What I envision is a separate section for his horse activities, which could certainly lead off with the tale you mention.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:26, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: That's pretty much how it's set up now, so no problem.  For a parallel structure, will the layout I used in William Robinson Brown (another horse breeder who also had an extensive non-horsey career) work?  We had some complaints that it wasn't chronological at FAC, I think, but it passed anyway.  Montanabw(talk) 21:36, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, that would work, but his non-horse career probably occupies the majority of space here.  Possibly combine a couple of paragraphs from each for a "legacy" section.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:43, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The trick is to figure out relative weighting.  In the cosmic scheme of the universe and scholarly sources, he was a famed political cartoonist.  In terms of Google hits and contemporary influence, it's his contributions as a horse breeder and founder of the Arabian Horse Club Registry of America.  I'm open as to how to balance the two, but no question that his horse herd had a profound impact on the Arabian horse breed worldwide.  Montanabw(talk) 23:06, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that there's room enough that we can each write what we need to and it won't be an issue.--Wehwalt (talk) 23:09, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Groovy. I'm probably not going to get much done on this until next week, so carry on!  Montanabw(talk) 18:11, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

text: As it is, but I have not had the opportunity to move beyond 1896.  Davenport reprised his role in Hanna's 1897-98 Senate campaign, he also was back in 1900.  I'm not done yet.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:02, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The 1896 election is certainly going to be the heftiest part of the cartoon part of the article.  But that's because all the sources go there.  I'll eventually import much of my Hanna bibliography, it looks like.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:52, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: So long as the focus is on Davenport and we make use of "Main" links for details that may not be needed here.  Montanabw(talk) 23:31, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article improvement drive 

message: Hi Wehwalt, actually, I'm not certain  dumping Davenport's entire personal life into the end of the article is the way to go.  I can see the argument for it, but I also am trying to think if there's a better way.  He's a complicated character with his dual love of horses (plus other critters) and cartooning running through his entire life. There's an argument to be made that we should know who this individual was as a person up front to answer the "why should we care?" question.  The choice to put personal life up front was modeled on William Robinson Brown, another person famous today mostly as a horse breeder in spite of remarkable other professional accomplishments. However, I admit Brown did have a far less complicated personal life than Davenport!  I am not certain I have a solution, as I realize that the long personal life narrative up front is also problematic.  Perhaps some of the animal-loving material (such as the paragraph on Duff) could go into the early life section, leaving his marital life and east coast farm ventures where it is at??  Feel free to tweak as you see fit.  I have to mull this over a bit.  Maybe bring in some outside eyes to help us break it loose??  Mine have crossed... Montanabw(talk) 02:28, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I felt that as there are specific things the reader might be looking up Homer Davenport for, i.e. cartoonist and horse breeder, it would be best to prioritize those things.  I was more concerned about making sure that there weren't the discontinuities I pointed out by email, but I think making the reader wade through Davenport's personal life twice is an error, and that if you go through his life before going to the personal life, you don't have to have two death scenes.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:59, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point on the death part!  I agree that discontinuity is a concern too.   I guess that I wonder if there is any better way to structure the article so it is more chronological; that would mean jumping back and forth between the newspaper stuff and the horse stuff.  I think the article was originally structured that way, so we kept with it.  But, for example, the material on the Columbian Expo would all work better up in that section, and the desert trip and establishment of his horse farm fits mostly into his less active cartooning 1905-1912 period.  Montanabw(talk) 23:32, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I can see the point either way. Thoughts from reviewers?--Wehwalt (talk) 23:38, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Let's go round some up!  LOL!  Montanabw(talk) 19:53, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rearrangement discussion 

message: Brianboulton expressed some concerns re the galleries.  Thoughts anyone?--Wehwalt (talk) 16:26, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: For those who wish to weigh in, here is what guided the current structure:  From Wikipedia:Image_use_policy#Image_galleries:  "the use of a gallery section may be appropriate in some Wikipedia articles if a collection of images can illustrate aspects of a subject that cannot be easily or adequately described by text or individual images. The images in the gallery collectively must have encyclopedic value and add to the reader's understanding of the subject."  I am most open to ideas about how to format them better, but per talk above, the images are hard to decipher if they get too small, particularly on a laptop.  I also reviewed all the FAs at Wikipedia:Featured_articles#Art.2C_architecture_and_archaeology_biographies and this layout coincides most closely to Longacre, but see also Charles_Holden#Works, where there is a similar layout, and John_Michael_Wright#Artistic_legacy.   I believe our structure is far superior to the raw "dumping ground of representative works" seen at FAs such as El_Lissitzky, Adolfo_Farsari, Caspar_David_Friedrich, or Henry_Moore#Gallery. The only other useful format I can see is the double image layout at El_Greco#Influence_on_other_artists, but I tried that here, and it didn't really work.  (Might try it for the horse images, though...) Montanabw(talk) 18:33, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: By chance, the TFA for 28 October is the cartoonist George Herriman. This article employs a similar image presentation pattern to that used in Davenport, so clearly my fears that such a presentation might not be acceptable at FAC are unfounded. In the case of Herriman, the images are smaller and neater than in Davenport, with much shorter captions. I suggest you reduce the sizes of your galleries (maybe 200px), and at the same time reduce captions to a few words in each case – let each picture tell its story. Readers can of course use the thumb to incease the size of each individual pic. Brianboulton (talk) 16:38, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: WHEW!  Put all galleries at 200 px (they seem a little small now, though? Except the first set, which didn't shrink... Whazzup with that?). trimmed captions (Wehwalt, may want to review my edits) Does that work?  Montanabw(talk) 05:37, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: As I see it now, it is the second set, not the first, which is still oversized. Try it on 220px – you'll get a good result. And an even better ione if you make the captions "small". Brianboulton (talk) 19:06, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Galleries 

message: The link to a wikipedia article on Albert Spaulding refers to the wrong person. It appears that it should be Albert Spalding, different spelling. The one linked was born after Davenport's death.
Incorrect link used:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Spaulding
This is likely the correct link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Spalding
Puckety (talk) 13:19, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you, I've fixed that.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:37, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Albert Spaulding /Albert Spalding 

message: Some new material was added to this article.  We can use some of it (such as the names of the children Davenport's parents lost) if we have proper sourcing for this info, and we can add the other material if the google books links check out and are properly formatted - I will start that part.  I want to encourage people to contribute to our wikipedia articles, but on this particular article, we have to be more precise about how we go about it.  Montanabw(talk) 03:28, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article additions 

message: Was digging around in the drive-by editor's source material and came across a few things of interest.  Would you add your two cents if these sources pass WP:RS in your view?  Thanks.  Montanabw(talk) 18:12, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The first one, I'm reasonably certain.  The other two are a little foggier because they look to me like blog posts.  Borderline.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:59, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Thoughts on their connection to a university per WP:NEWSBLOG?  Just trying to figure out mostly if the stuff on Timothy Davenport (ink #2) can be used.  Montanabw(talk) 03:21, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Is there a page that explains who is behind the Davenport Project?  What I want is evidence there's some sort of editorial oversight.--Wehwalt (talk) 18:17, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

text: *Just my 2 cents. 1859 (magazine) is legit. Off the top of my head, I think I've rejected the "liberal university" blog as non-reliable source on the Silverton, Oregon article before. Valfontis (talk) 19:27, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

text: *The place I found the "liberal university" edits was at Bobby the Wonder Dog. Added here, removed here. Here's more background on the "liberal university" project.  appears to be the same as G. F. Brazier. So there's like some COI, and I can't find any evidence of oversight. Valfontis (talk) 19:56, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

text: *Also the Liberal University Press has author Gus Frederick. Valfontis (talk) 20:00, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

text: *Finally Gus Frederick is considered a legit source. Arcadia Press book, local coverage of same, story by Frederick in the Statesman Journal. Valfontis (talk) 20:08, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

text: I'm OK with using them.  But we should try to cover the material later with better sources.  If GFrederick goes ahead and starts a page on Timothy, our problem may be solved.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:38, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

text: Oregon Encyclopedia is a reliable source. Valfontis (talk) 21:57, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hey wehwalt 

message: If Gus is a RS then this is a goldmine:  http://oregonencyclopedia.org/articles/davenport_timothy_woodbridge_/#.VN2YzjqFarI  Montanabw(talk) 06:26, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Oregon Encyclopedia is a reliable source. Valfontis (talk) 21:57, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: More

message: Personally I rather don't think the formatting of the references is a valid rationale to remove relevant, well-sourced content, Featured Article or no. The content should be our primary concern; a tidy formatting is a secondary issue. A "form over substance" approach worsens the article. That said, I'd ask Montanabw to please explain what was wrong with the formatting of this reference which made use of the  template, in line with various other ,  and  templates used in the article. Huon (talk) 16:17, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah!  I did miss that, I thought you just reverted the earlier version that did not have the cite template, saw the "undo" in the edit summary and assumed no changes had been made.  Thank you for BRD, for pointing this out, and I'll restore your material, I had to copyedit a bit, though.  As far as the general principle, actually FAC is unbelievably fussy about all the citations being uniform and correct.  It's one of the first things they spot.  In articles where the citations are added willy-nilly and not consistently formatted, I have been on teams where we have spent hours and hours fixing citations, it's very painstaking; must easier to do it properly from the outset.  It's also low-hanging fruit for those who review articles for potential TFA slots... Montanabw(talk) 03:43, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Formatting of references 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: *https://oregonencyclopedia.org/articles/davenport_homer/#.WT9KexiZNo4 ---Another Believer (Talk) 02:14, 13 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: That looks useful at first glance, for example the detail of who provided over his funeral. , what do you think?--Wehwalt (talk) 10:46, 13 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Apologies for the long delay; appears to be RS, a publication of the Oregon Historical Society.  I say yes!  Montanabw(talk) 06:00, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

text: Not sure it's worth any flak from using it.  Sort of fact that we can include, not include, the walls of the city won't fall down either way.--Wehwalt (talk) 07:33, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source 

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