Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Archive ("U.S." or "American")

message: I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but the CIA World Factbook has this to say on the subject:
Country name:
	
:conventional long form: United States of America
:conventional short form: United States
:abbreviation: US or USA
Mark Richards 05:51, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, like they're any authority on the matter. :P  -Sean 08:12, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: CIA World Factbook

message: an encyclopedia does not leave a reader as misinformed and ill-informed as upon arrival. "everybody's saying it" is not a relavent argument. United States (disambiguation) and America demonstrate the ambiguities. after specifying the full name once, "u.s.", "united states", "america", and "american" can be used if unambiguous in context. Badanedwa 16:21, Jun 12, 2004 (UTC)
:Nonsense; the English Wikipedia uses the English language, a natural language spoken and written by several hundred million people.  It does not use its own constructed language of formalisms, even one resembling English.  The American debate is quite well covered above, and regardless of what you might think about that, the United States is in almost all contexts in English a perfectly unambiguous noun referring to the country of that name.  It is true that there are other things that begin with that phrase, but they are not referred to as simply the United States without qualifier.  This situation (technical ambiguity but clear understanding) is not particularly unique to the phrase the United States either, and if we were forced to disambiguate each one, the encyclopedia would read more like formal logic than like English. --Delirium 08:30, Jun 16, 2004 (UTC)
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I think there's a lot of confusion here due to cultural differences... Many people aren't understanding what's "wrong" with using U.S. or U.S. Citizen. As far as I can tell, "America" is the word people use when they are feeling patriotic, or experiencing national pride. America has many positive feelings associated with it. Try to find anyone on July 4 saying "United States"... everyone is saying "America." United States is a much more dry term, usually seen in textbooks and the like. It's like the difference between "home" and "house". Even USofA and USA are warmer terms than United States.
IMHO, people from USA aren't trying to say they're the only country in the Western Hemisphere that matters when they use "American". Most people here just call nationalities by their country name, such as Mexican, Venezuelan, and Canadian. They're calling themselves by their country name when they say "America." They're not trying to call themselves by the continent name. If the continents were changed to North and South Oogleboogle they'd still call themselves American, not Ooglebooglean.
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I live in Canada, about an hour's drive from the US border.  Sometimes one of us refers to a US trip by saying something like "last week I went to America."  The phrase sounds totally self-concious and usually everyone giggles.  [we're not laughing at the US or at Americans, just at the usage of the term] —Michael Z. 05:54, 2004 Aug 24 (UTC)
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This is one of the strangest talk pages I have yet encountered on Wikipedia. I am a U.S. citizen, and I am in utter bafflement over the Americans who state that they are offended by the use of U.S. or US. "Offended"??? As someone recently said at the Pump, there are some people who find very creative ways in which to be offended. func(talk) 19:47, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, the offense is less at the term itself than it is at being told, effectively from without, that they must use other terms than those which they generally use to self-identify.  Also, remember that the term "US" is more associated with the nation-state construct per se, and "American" with the overall culture and like of English-speaking North America north of Mexico and south of Canada.  --146.151.47.17  10:58, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: wikipedia is not a collection of american slang and common misinformation

message: (excerpted from OED)
''
Columbian, a. and n.
 A. adj. Of or belonging to America or (esp.) the United States.
 n. An American; an inhabitant or native of the U.S.A. Obs. exc. Hist.
 
  1789 S. LOW Politician Outwitted II. ii, in M. J. Moses Repr. Plays Amer. Dramatists (1918) I. 377 As the East is to the West..or the Aborigines of America to the Columbians of this generation, so is that line to this line. 1815 W. THORNTON Outl. Const. Columbia 1, I was born in America..and..I feel an unspeakable attachment to the whole race of Columbians. 1947 St. Louis Globe-Democrat 7 Sept., Now they could call themselves Columbians instead of Americans.
''
NOTE: This is why you have Columbia Pictures and CBS
Personally I think everything should say USA to be absolutely clear.
And think about this: OAS
132.205.15.42 03:43, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lets just call USA related stuff '''COLUMBIAN''' and cause real confusion 

message: *"America" in modern English (as used by non-Latinos) is not a continent.
*"The Americas" is a new English term meaning both continents of North America and South America.
*:As in "Which America do you mean, North or South?"
*"America" in most contexts means "the United States of America".
*"American" in most contexts means "of America (USA)", i.e., a US citizen, a US car or movie, a US government policy
However, many residents of countries to the south of the USA, particularly Mexico, use the English word differently. I guess this is because the Spanish word America is spelled and pronounced the same but has a different meaning. That is, the Spanish and English meanings of "America" are different.
Now, Wikipedia is not an "American (USA)" encyclopedia, but an "English (language)" encyclopedia. We've had to deal with the British-English (including Scotch and Irish) vs. American-English (primarily USA) issue, not to mention Australia, South Africa, etc. I suppose it would be good to deal with Spanish (and Portugese?) usage as well.
*"America" in English (as used by Latinos) is a continent! It includes what native speakers of English generally refer to as North America and South America, i.e. "the Americas".
*"America" sometimes means the USA, but many Latinos avoid using the term this way. When referring to the USA (in English) they will use synonyms such as "the US", "the USA", "the United States, or in context simply "this country" or "here".
*There seems to be some resentment among Latinos that the English term "America" or "American" excludes the majority of the people who were born in America (continent). At best it's baffling, at worst it's arrogant.
I do not propose a solution here. I am simply condensing the discussion.
Do I have it right? Has everyone been heard? Is this what everyone thinks about the usage of "America" and "American"? --Uncle Ed 15:29, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: One very minor niggle, which seems worth making here since we're discussing the naming of countries... there is no such thing as Scotch English, unless you've been drinking too much whiskey. In Scotland, however, there is such a thing as Scots English. ;-) – Kieran T (talk) 00:14, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Summary of old talk