Talk:Ariovistus

message: Hi, I was just wondering whether "Germanics" is really a scholarly term. I understand that you'd probably want to avoid the term "Germans", since that is totally misleading by suggesting a degree of continuity that just isn't there. But how about "Germani"? The Latin term is fairly neutral, and I know it's used by some scholars, certainly by Peter Heather. --Helmold 21:01, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree calling them "Germanic" implies the existance of a unique culture and ethnicity for which there is extremely limited evidence, Tribal names would be more practical then a loose geographic term. As it is this article has some pretty serious POV issues. Bloody Sacha (talk) 13:40, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Germanics? 

message: The article says that ario- is not akin to Ehre, which i believe is right, but the source is all gobbledygook. [EDIT: I get it now; it's but a comment, not a source, and as such, i won't call it gobbledygook.] It seems to say that Ario and Ehre aren't akin because there's no proof and Ariovistus didn't live up to the Nazis interpretation of his name. I have Duden Etymologie right here. It says that Ehre (from ēra in Old High German, akin to ār in Old English and eir in Old Icelandic) comes from the Proto-Germanic root *ais-. I think this became air- (spoken "ire") by Ariovistus's time, meaning that had his name had any connection to Ehre, it would have been latinized as Aerovistus.
Smith's interpretations of -vistus looks highly unlikely to me, but it stands unchallenged. Fürst (English First, Old English Fyrst, Old High German Furist) is reconstructed in Proto-Germanic as *furistô. Fist (Old English Fyst, Old High German Fūst) is reconstructed in Proto-Germanic as *fustiz. Aside from these reconstructions having the barest likeness to vistus, i doubt one would have mistaken a Germanic /f/ with a Latin /v/ because Latin had no /v/ at the time, although it did have /f/. The Latin <v>/ originally sounded like the English W. 
And last but not least, there's no mention that Ariovistus could be a Celtic name. Labarion has Ariox/Ariocos (nobleman) reconstructed from Old Irish Aire(ch), and Vissus (knowledge) (V=W here, too) reconstructed from Middle Welsh gwys and Old Irish fiuss. I have to wonder if Ariox is a form of someting like Ario-. The -ss- in Vissus represents the Tau Gallicum which is transcribed into IPA as /ts/. A Celtic name meaning "noble wisdom" looks like the likeliest interpretation of the name to me. --Leif Runenritzer (talk) 07:34, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've addressed Leif's last point. I'm more amateur philologist than linguist (which I'm not at all!), so I've presented my source in a very non-technical way. But at least this interpretation is now represented on the page. Cynwolfe (talk) 20:47, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Etymology of his name

message: I deleted footnoted material that struck me as wildly irrelevant to the etymological discussion of name. If there is Nazi writing that held up Ariovistus as a Superman, that is extremely interesting and should be presented. It would be relevant in the way that the relation of Vercingetorix to certain strands of French nationalism is relevant. That isn't what the note did. The note muddled Aryan racialist propaganda with Indo-European linguistics, the onomastics of which produces hundreds of names in all the IE languages that mean something like "Noble Man" or "Super Leader" and such grandiosities. By all means, put this material back if you can cite sources and make a distinction between nationalist myth and etymology. Cynwolfe (talk) 20:21, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  deleted Nazi rant 

message: From what I understand, the term Germani was a Celtic word that meant in a sense :The next wave of "Celtic' warrior/tribes who are crossing south over the Rhine. One particular tribe who may have had a name similar to 'Germani' was so especially fierce, that it became attributed to any tribe that crosses over the Rhine w/ fierceness or boldness or success (kinda like the NY Yankess winning records). So it became common to those seasonal migrations from the North of the Rhine to be called Germani, or the Germani are coming. Just like the word Teuton being a Celtic word for tribe or people, as in Tuatha (ol Ir.) Sources are Jos.Campbell, Peter Beresford Ellison & H. Hubert in their various related books(sorry can't be more specific as my boys have to be fed. etc., will try to get back to fine tune.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jpcasey (talk • contribs) 22:32, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Derivation of the term Germani 

message: I think the references to "Germans" in ancient Germanic history are seriously problematic and anachronistic. They identify ancient Germani/ae [and sometimes even Celti/ae and sometimes Scythi/ae] with modern Germans. But some of the Germani/ae were Celtic-speakers and others were Germanic-speakers. And the Germans are only one branch of Germanic speakers. 64.118.110.171 (talk) 23:44, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The primary sources call them Germans, the Reliable Sources by historians call them Germans, therefore Wiki must refer to them as Germans. HammerFilmFan (talk) 14:51, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Germans? 

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