Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anime and manga/Archive 12

message: Here there is a blanket AfD for probably a good 50-100 Cosmic Era articles.  I have objected to this out of principle, saying that one cannot nominate 50 different articles without explaining specifically how each one violates a Wikipedia policy.  If this is passed as a delete, it might not bode well for future anime articles. — Dark Shikari talk/contribs 11:49, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Clear case of an m:don't be a dick violation by the original poster. Those gundam articles are one of the reasons I started editting here, removing them reduces wikipedia. Kyaa the Catlord 12:22, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Hey, there's a Wikiproject related directly to these articles. I bet they'll be surprised. :P Kyaa the Catlord 13:10, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They aren't active though. At least, I thought the project was shut down. Anyways, see also Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cosmic Era vehicles‎.--SeizureDog 13:11, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: For some reason, the linking doesn't seem to work. Not sure why either.--SeizureDog 13:14, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I really think it is overstating the case by implying that if these articles are deleted, other anime articles will be deleted.  This particular lot of articles are horrible quality and are in dire need of clean-up. Someone went way overboard with creating entries for every minor character and machine in the series.  If they're not deleted (I see one big no-consensus result for the lot) they'll all need to be trimmed substantially and merged and redirected where necessary.  We'll also need some non-primary references for the entire group. I wish the nominating editor had listed all of them separately ans conducted his deletion debate in a more civil manner. Finally, because someone is a fan of a certain series doesn't mean that that article deserves to be in Wikipedia.  This detailed fan stuff is more suited to Wikibooks, as the Harry Potter fans have shown us with the Guide to Harry Potter. --Kunzite 19:06, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

text: The gundam articles are mostly just fancruft, and can be merged / trimmed to a hand full of pages and do a lot better job. -- Ned Scott 21:08, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If there's an easy way/tool/bot to go through and nominate multiple articles for deletion I'd like to know it. Because it could talk half a day for one person to go through and list each Gundam article that needs trimming one by one. I tried by best to make it clear that I wanted people to vote on the articles seperately and not together in my nomination. In a sense, it's the same thing, just less hassle for the nominator.--SeizureDog 13:25, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cosmic Era article series facing deletion 

message: I am unable to vizualise kanjis for technical reasons beyond my hability, and would be eternally grateful if someone could help me with the simple task of adding the kanki and romanisation for the names in the character section of Serial Experiments Lain where it is still missing. I believe that's only Taro, Miu Miu, their friend, the Office Worker, and the two MiBs. Thanks for your time!--SidiLemine 12:38, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You seem to be missing a Miho Iwakura, Reika Yamamoto, Yuri Katō, and Chisa Yomoda. At least, they're listed on the Japanese article. --SeizureDog 13:04, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They all seemed like very secondary to me. Miho says two sentences in the whole series, Yuri and Reika are only Alice's supporting crew, and I'm pretty sure Chisa doesn't acheive 15 mn of screen time. Actually, I still have doubts about Taro and the Office Worker, but they play key roles in the plot developpement so I thought it was best to include them.--SidiLemine 15:07, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Just FYI, you can install Japanese language support for Windows XP (ie. the ability to see kanji in your browser) by downloading the file here. ;) I'm yet to find a Linux distro that didn't come with it built in. - Phorque 15:27, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help with kanji/romaji names 

message: I've done a bit of edit to Sentou Yousei Yukikaze, and Submarine 707R. I know the latter isn't finished, but it at least has SOMETHING in there now. 
--Kschang77 00:06, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sentou Yousei Yukikaze needs wikifying. Remember that wikipedia is an encyclopedia, it should explain things in an Out-of-universe perspective and should not contain rhetorical questions (for example: "Was it just a mirage, a sign that he's still out there, or was it really him?"). --Squilibob 12:55, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Can someone offer a little feedback on edits 

message: *Idol club - Those crazy clubs based around a certain hot girl at school.
*PVC model / PVC figure - A type of model that anime characters often come in. Can end up being really expensive too. There are similar articles that almost seem to be good choices to redirect too, but none seem to actually be quite right.
*One coin - Small anime figures that randomly come in sealed boxes that you can buy with one coin. Similar to gashapon.
*Character album - Albums where the voice actors sing songs in-character.
*Japanese school swimsuit - Those blue, one-piece things seem to have a pretty big fetish around it. I can't figure out why either.
*Speed lines - The half-assed way of drawing motion.
*Bloomers needs an image of the kind of bloomers we've grown to know from anime. If someone clicks on a link of bloomers from an anime article for some reason they're going to be grossly misled as to what we're talking about.
I'm sure there are more that need to be done. We need to be sure that all cultural references that pop up in any have at least stubs. I would make them, but I'm hoping someone else knows more about these than me.--SeizureDog 18:53, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Things related to anime that we need articles for. 

message: In trying to enforce Wiki-policy, I keep kinding myself getting reverted on this page. The problems:
# Someone seems to thing trivia such as "In volume 2, when 2-A is declared first place in the tests classification, a chibi version of Mitsune Konno (Kitsune) from Love Hina can be seen in a certain panel, throwing her tickets in the air, as she usually does when loses a bet." is, "notable".
# "Fuck" (as quoted in a review) keeps turning into "f***", a clear violation of Wikipedia is not censored.
# That's of course, when the review is actually in the article. The review is by The Comics Journal, a published magazine and thus one of the few creditable places we can find critical reviews. However, it's negative and fanboys don't like that :/
I'm about to revert all of this, but the page as they seem to want it can be seen here. I could use some support here. --SeizureDog 16:25, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Deppey described the series as creating "simultaneously ... wildly entertaining situations" and extremely disturbing ones. When in doubt, paraphrase? --HKMarks(T/C) 17:03, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I've added my two cents. Note that if this fails to produce consensus, the next step in the dispute resolution process is to open up a case at ArbCom. --RoninBKETC 23:58, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You sure this is bad enough that mediation needs to be skipped? NeoChaosX  (he shoots, he scores!) 00:08, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: According to Wikipedia:Resolving disputes, asking for mediation at a WikiProject satisfies the mediation step --RoninBKETC 00:28, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Need help with fanboys at [[Negima!: Magister Negi Magi]] 

message: There's some discussion at WT:TV#Infoboxes on articles covering multiple media, where I suggested looking at our animanga infoboxes as a solution to shows with lots of different media (TV, movies, games, etc). I thought I'd make a note here incase anyone had any more suggestions or feedback on adapting the animanga infobox system to the TV infobox. -- Ned Scott 07:45, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  TV WikiProject needs your help! 

message: I haven't played the game, but I've noticed the article is a long cluttered mess. It's a video game, and falls under the anime category as well. The biggest problem: the characters list. One long list isn't working and just makes it cluttered and long. Yes, the game has many characters... but so do many other games, they don't have long lists like that. In the table for the characters, there is an "original appearance" section. Not needed either, in my opinion: the article is about the video game, not about the anime and/or magna. If people want to know about those, they can read it on the character article itself. Anyone have any thoughts on what to do about the article? Feel free to post them, or be bold... and fix the table. The cleanup tag has been there since November. RobJ1981 07:16, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No comment on most of that, except that you're right that it needs help. The original appearance section, however, is necessary. Not only for those characters which do not have their own articles, but because in a real-world sense, the important thing is not which fictional character is there but rather what real-world franchise they are from. --tjstrf talk 07:47, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Damn that's a lot of characters...I totally need to import this game for x-mas. Anyways, I went ahead and did some major and rough splitting of the lists off. --SeizureDog 08:59, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know about that. Moving alist from one page and just making it into a new page doesn't solve the problem completely. RobJ1981 18:41, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course not, but it's a quick fix. The list certainly can't be turned into prose in any case.--SeizureDog 05:38, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I figured people would revert it, due to them not wanting the article to change. Cluttered lists make the article look horrible. It's basically a guide to characters (and the series they are in) and levels as it is now. There is some other information, but overall... just that. It should be noted: Jump Super Stars suffers from the same problems. Also there is this: Jump Superstars manga: Special Edition. It's an article on a free comic that came out because Jump Super Stars was popular. Many video games have free things: it doesn't make many (or any for that matter) notable for a single article on Wikipedia. A one time manga certainly isn't that notable in the long run. A note on the Jump Super Stars page is all that should be done in this case. RobJ1981 16:57, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Jump Ultimate Stars]] in need of alot of help

message: Rather than deleting pages, let's talk about this in the discussion page here.  Why do specific anime and manga characters or story lines warrant placement in an encyclopedia?  I see the need for this page, about manga in general, and certainly one on anime in general, but what makes each character noteworthy to those outside the anime and manga community?  Thanks! Uvacss 03:08, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not a whole lot, and you're not alone in your view. However, less cruft in itself can be "better representation". -- Ned Scott 03:51, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Storylines/plot summary articles should be moved to WikiBooks. Character articles should be judged on a case by case merit. Characters for anime that last less than 26 episodes probably should be probably be merged into a "Characters from ..." article though.--SeizureDog 05:35, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree storylines and plot summary articles don't belong here. This is an encyclopedia not a storyline guide. People assume it's alright, because they see other summaries...so they make one, another person makes one, and the cycle keeps going. Fancruft of summaries needs to stop for anime and manga.RobJ1981 17:00, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Personally, I think the most egregious example of cruft, and this may be endemic to TV-show topics, is the creation of articles for each episode of a series, especially when these articles don't provide much more information than the episode-lists. I imagine it's a rare TV episode that is notable enough to have its own article.--Monocrat 17:47, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I agree with Monocrat: TV episode articles for every episode are a big problem on Wikipedia. It seems like once they started, they didn't stop. The problem is people wont approve of mass AFDs on any TV show's endless episode articles. It's the whole problem of "this show has episode articles, so any other show must have them". There is a TV wiki, isn't there? Episode guides belong there for all shows. I'm sure there is anime and manga Wikis as well: episode articles should be put on there, not here. RobJ1981 05:55, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: One solution would be to begin with the shows that have almost empty episode articles, like Planetes or Serial Experiments Lain, it would then create enough precedent that fans have to justify why a particular episode would have to stay.--SidiLemine 10:04, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think part of the reason shows like that get small episode articles is the thinking that they have to have them in order for the "List of ___ episodes" to be featured articles.--SeizureDog 00:45, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Also, if it would set a good precedent for mass deletion of crufty character articles, I'd be happy to sponsor Excel, Hyatt, Il Palazzo, Kabapu, Gojyou Shiouji and That Man. Seeing them gone would also be a way of atoning for my newbie sins. Apart from purging the Wikipedia of their trivia and speculation, there would be no real loss from getting rid of these articles: the main character-list has been sufficiently cleaned up in my estimation. Throwing it out there.--Monocrat 03:40, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There's no cause for deletion when redirecting will work just as well, you know. If you believe the list does a good enough job, then just point the pages to the list after discussing it with any other active editors on those pages. --tjstrf talk 03:46, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I often forget about redirects. I'll keep that in mind. :) --Monocrat 04:01, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: One thing that always gets me depressed is the very low number of GA/FA in this project, compared to the number of articles (4500!!). Anything that reduces the number of stubs is welcome. Where shall we start?--SidiLemine 10:11, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, at least we have 2 articles sitting in the Good Article Candidates page (Shuffle! and Death Note), so maybe we'll be able to bring the number up some. Plus, Madlax is surely at least a GA article, but he's going straight for FA.--SeizureDog 12:43, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good. I'm currently working on getting Serial Experiments Lain from GA to FA, and Monocrat is on a very good track to make List of Excel Saga media to FL. Once that is done, we might want to get NGE to GA/FA. To me it's the most encyclopedic manga ever, with tons of reviews, scholar work, etc. It will need a radical cleanup, and some warring with the fanboys out there to get all the cruft out, but getting it to GA should be quite easy. To me it's either Neon Genesis Evangelion or Cowboy Bebop (needs refs and deleting of trivia). Any preferences?--SidiLemine 14:44, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, Shuffle! just passed, so +1 for the GAs. I definately think that we should work on Neon Genesis Evangelion first. It's much more culturally significant than Cowboy Bebop and I think there are probably more resources out there for it. Plus, it's a better article to work with. Bebop has too much that needs to be removed; you'd have to write that entire article from scratch. Evangelion mostly just needs sourcing.--SeizureDog 21:51, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well done getting Shuffle to GA. --Squilibob 08:13, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

text: (Breaking indent) SeizureDog, I really have to disagree about the state of NGE. In short, the article suffers from problems of emphasis: too much on fans and cultural-impact and not enough on the series itself. I'm surprised at the skimpy summaries in plot and characters, and I doubt that any 26-episode anime, even NGE, deserves a full page for its plot. If anything needs to be moved sub-articles, it's "Influence" and "Inspiration and symbolism," which currently dominate the article.--Monocrat 22:18, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, that's still relevant, ie, to be moved to other pages, whereas CB has a lot to be simply removed, for causes of OR and triviality. I say we begin by making the page as complete, thorough, sourced and big as possible, and then we see what gets out. --SidiLemine 10:14, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Edit That being said, I agree with Monocrat, too. There's a need to inflate a little the in-world sections. When that's done and all the OR has been removed from the others, it should look much better.--SidiLemine 10:42, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I'm confused. You just contradicted yourself by calling the plot summary "skimpy", but then complaining about how it has a full page's worth of information. In any case, I was saying that NGE has more to work with. Once we get rid of all the junk we'll still have a decently sized article. CB however, will hardly have anything left. In any case, it's nice that the problem is that we need more in-world information. Generally, we have the exact opposite problem.--SeizureDog 18:26, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think what Monocrat meant is that the plot doesn't warrant its own article, while the summary presented on the main article is too short. I agree to what SeizureDog says, althought we'll have to see what's left after we get rid of the OR. It might not be much. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by $yD! (talk • contribs) 20:05, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please explain why anime and manga need to better represented on Wikipedia 

message: Hi. This proposal and discussion is relevant to the Animga and Manga Portal: Wikipedia:Fair use/Amendment/Fair use images in portals --GunnarRene 14:38, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fair use image on portal 

message: I have added some examples on how to use the stub tag and talk page template to better explain them. A lot of users who are new to the project don't pick up on these straight away. --Squilibob 10:58, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Examples on Project page 

message: Good news for those who are merging minor characters to list or shared articles, and or any other situation of shared topic. From the Wikipedia Signpost:
:"Redirects to sections now work, using text such as #REDIRECT Main Page#Other areas of Wikipedia.  The feature should be used cautiously, because users may be confused by being sent to the middle of a page when clicking an ordinary-looking link, and the redirect notice will be obscured by the jump."
For example, Aoi Housen now redirects to List of Infinite Ryvius characters#Aoi Housen directly instead of generically to the article. -- Ned Scott 06:59, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But for some strange reason it's not working in Safari. -- Ned Scott 07:00, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow, that's excellent news. Thank you very much for informing us. --tjstrf talk 07:09, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sectional redirects now work 

message: Azumanga Daioh is undergoing a peer review. Contributions will be appreciated. --Squilibob 11:11, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Azumanga Daioh 

message: Hey guys.
Normally you would expect someone who is active in this Wikiproject to spur a new project, but I am not. Hopefully that this doesn't deter anyone from my idea. I am proposing a project solely for anime conventions. With the amount that are still popping up and the fact that I am writing a book on these conventions, I figure it would be a great idea to start a project and formally collaborate with others who have an interest in them too.
If anyone is wondering, I have been working in anime cons for six years, and will have by the end of next year staffed at least seventeen. :: Colin Keigher (Talk) 06:34, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It might just be better to make that a sub-project / task-force of this project. That way you could still have a dedicated talk page, to do list, etc, but wouldn't have to start a WikiProject from scratch. -- Ned Scott 21:59, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have to agree that it would be better to create a task-force under WP:Anime then set up a separate WikiProject. WP:Anime has enough "child" projects already and most of them could also be reorganized as task-forces as well. --TheFarix (Talk) 22:33, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Independantly, it could be fun to have a conventions wikiproject, for anime and others.--SidiLemine 17:44, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Maybe it is time we start organizing task forces. I can see having one for manga, anime, light novels, visual novels, conventions, seiyu, mangaka, and characters. And that's just off the top of my head. --SeizureDog 03:12, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikiproject proposal! 

message: Just an idea to throw out there, apply the concept of Wikipedia:Persondata to anime articles? Maybe even use the existing infobox to do this. -- Ned Scott 09:52, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We should use something more like Template:General CVG character, where it seperates out of universe information from in-universe information. Example: Talim.--SeizureDog 03:19, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was thinking more for the series themselves rather than the characters. -- Ned Scott 05:45, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I realized later that I had misread your point. --SeizureDog 05:54, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Adding metadata to the existing infoboxes would be as simple as adding a | class="metadata-label anime" | line to anything in the table that is required to be parsed. Most fields look like they will work as is, though the date field would probably work better broken up so that the years are separate. Then categories like :Category:Anime of the 2000s could be automatically added like :Category:Anime series, etc, anyway. --Squilibob 04:37, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

text: If we're going to use the infoboxes to generated them, then there shouldn't be a problem renaming a field down the track as only the template pages would need to be changed. So why not use the existing fields as placeholders? Short Description could be used instead of Media since there are no short descriptions in the infobox at present. --Squilibob 03:47, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  metadata for anime? 

message: I'm not sure how many people are aware of this, but a new notability guideline regarding fandom has been proposed. Please weigh in with your thoughts on its talk page. --TheFarix (Talk) 17:51, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Notability proposal 

message: Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 16:37, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia Day Awards