Talk:Trnopolje camp

message: This article is so seriously POV it's ridiculous.
Trnopolje was a collection centre for refugees and not a death camp. All the evidence points to that basic fact. The only "evidence" of atrocities presented in the article is one solitary link, which by itself amounts to no more than mere allegations by the ICTY prosecutor.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Trac63 (talk • contribs) 14:47, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe YOU, Serbian war crimes apologists, need some fact checking?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/27/radovankaradzic.warcrimes2  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.123.192.82 (talk) 20:45, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV 

message: An editor on IP 66.41.7.135 introduced the word "concentration" in the second paragraph of the introduction. This adds to the articles possible POV and I removed it. Mondeo (talk) 23:34, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The reason I removed the word "concentration camp" was that the editor that introduced insisted on using "concentration camp" throughout the article, instead of the neutral word "camp". The introduction already states that for instance HRW believes that the label "concentration camp" is justified. Technically it was probably a concentration camp, but today that label is mostly associated with nazi extermination camp. The Wikipedia article on concentration camp acknowledges this. Mondeo (talk) 23:14, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV edits reversed 

message: The article has improved notably during the last weeks. But please include a summary of your changes, and substantial changes can also be described in more detail here to allow other editors to relate to what is happening to the article. Thanks again for your contribution. Regards, Mondeo (talk) 18:22, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please explain changes 

message: In title of this article, and in other articles about concentration camps in Bosnia for that matter, you write "camp" not concentration camp ?! What camp, no realy - for young scouts, for outdoor activities, picnic ?! Is this some tourist destination for those enjoing nature, open sky, late night gathering around camp fire and tell scary tales, etc.
Sarcasm, irony and joking aside;
what about consistancy - all other articles about these facilities, for example in Europe during WWII, are under proper names in titles as well as in text. Let's see some of the articles and titles here on en.wikipedia :
*List of Nazi-German concentration camps
*Auschwitz concentration camp
*Buchenwald concentration camp
*Flossenbürg concentration camp
*Mauthausen-Gusen concentration camp
or
*Treblinka extermination camp
*Sobibor extermination camp
No one write or say "Auschwitz camp", "Buchenwald camp", etc. After all Merriam-Webster Dictionary provide this clear definition: 
*Camp - a place usually away from urban areas where tents or simple buildings (as cabins) are erected for shelter or for temporary residence (as for laborers, soldiers, or vacationers);
*Concentration camp  - a camp where persons are detained or confined (as prisoners of war, political prisoners, or refugees). 
Who ever came up with this idea, to change Concentration camp to Camp, is absolutely and nothing but sinister apologist and war crime denier. To change a very definition of what this place, and many other concentration (and death) camps through out of Bosnia was, to more "neutral"(!?) name camp (how about changing Holocaust to "Mass executions" just for the sake of "neutrality" ?!), is not just transparent deception but also deeply disturbing for victims or victim relatives as well as for those who sympathize with them. This brazen arrogance, presumptuous shamelessness is disgusting. It is obvious attempt to relativize purpose of these facilities, to confuse oblivious readers with "neutral" title, as if there are many clearly distinguishable differences between "camp" and those horrific places known as concentration camps. WOW !!!
This reasoning to put it more "neutral" is mind-blowing - so please, explain (!) : who need and why, to call, describe or define committed, proven and documented crime (against humanity) more "neutral"? Despicable !
So, I appeal to everyone conscience - change this "neutral" term in titles of all articles on concentration camps in Bosnia to a proper expression !--Santasa99 (talk) 10:40, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality ?! - OUTRAGEOUS ! 

message: The fact is, that Trnopolje was a concentration camp. But not necessarily an extermination camp, which is one of many connotations the word concentration camp has. As an ordinary young adult from Belgrade which has only Internet or other public media as sources, i can't really contribute, in a serious way, in shedding light to this case. But i did find something very interesting which nobody seems to mention. On an interview with Fikret Alic, which can be found on YouTube ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2sO-XcI9FQ ), he said he was in Trnopolje camp from August the 5th to August the 14th. The famous photo which appeared on the cover of the Time's magazine was taken on the same day of his arrival. So it would be appropiate to assume that he was already in that "emaciated" state when he came to Trnopolje. Everybody else seems normal (as normal as a man in war can be). I am not certain about many things, but there is something that i have no doubts about. Portraying Fikret Alic as the proof that Trnopolje was, without a doubt, a death-camp; and as a symbol of the ethnic-cleansing perpetrated by the Serbs, knowing the outrage would it cause among the west can be labelled as media manipulation.
And just in case, i state that i am not a genocide denier. I do not think that Radovan K. and Rako Mladic were heroes, and i will be most satisfied when they catch the latter. I participated in every demonstration in 1999 and 2000 against the regime.
I apologize for any mistakes i might have made.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.216.145.113 (talk) 16:10, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Misleading image 

message: This article seems to be complete crap. Just look at the 30-minute video, three parts, at YouTube -  is the first part. Penny Marshall's report was fraudulent beyond any reasonable doubt. The video shows details - authentic videos - how the report was made. The thin guy had a genetic disorder. The fence wasn't confining the "prisoners". Quite on the contrary, the TV crews were confined behind a fence. This was all deliberate distortion. I think that a person must be really mentally deficient not to be able to understand this point.
I propose the article to be renamed as Trnopolje refugee center because this is the only thing the facility is known to have been. --Lumidek (talk) 11:39, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trnopolje refugee center 

message: It is hard to be objective in case of Trnopolje:
1.) All refrences are NATO biased. There are no independent views but only from NATO countries
2.) Western media can present something 100 times severe than it really was. If you challange them, they will bring you cases that are true and you will find yourself as insnsitive person (regardless that there is plenty invented and inflated ones). Similarly they will downgrade suffering of those they do not like and if they ketch you in one mistake they will skream on all speakers that you are bogus and lier.
So lets use only thing one have left in such case - LOGIC!
LOOK AT EVERY ARTICLE AND EVERY PHOTO and following will be NOTICED:
1.) In 80% of articles it is one and the same guy. Irronically next to heam stands another person compeltly normal in worker pants. All other have shirts. Why? How? If anyone knows photography, I am not an expert I admit, it should be as someone wanted to focus viewer on one and only one boddy. Now look any photo from real concentraion camps. They are all naked, all starved, and focus is on all of them.
2.) In remaing photos you will see one or two guys in front (standing solo). Again pure art of photography and using focus. Yet if you look at background, again completly normal people.
just type in google "TRNOPOLJE" and go to immages
exmaple 1 (famous one): http://samaha.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/trnopolje10b.jpg (look at the guy on the right and one immediatly behind.) 
example 2: http://www.offiziere.ch/wp-content/uploads/detainees-at-the-Trnopolje-Camp-near-Prijedor-Bos-Herz.jpg
exmaple 3: (we are looking between the backs of people who look starved (or have some disorder) directly in the guy in similar condidion. That is the focus. But then look next to that center of the focus guy and you see completly normal man. Look then all the way in backgroung. Completly normal people. Yet well taken from the focus.
AND THEY KEEP SCREAMING. AND WE DO NOT THERE TO SAY ANYTHING. BECAUSE ANGLO-SAXONS HAVE RIGHT TO CLAIM! WE ALL HAVE ONLY RISK IN CHALLANGING IT! IF THEY ARE 99% WRONG BUT 1% RIGHT, THAT ONE PERCENT WILL MAKE US WHAT EVER THEY DECIDE TO PORTREY US! AND IF THEY MANAGE TO WIN, THEY WILL REPLACE ONE CLOWN (BLAIR AND BUSH) WITH ANOTHER (CAMERON AND seams to be with grate UNFORNTAELLY, OBAMA)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.119.190.138 (talk) 01:13, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trnopolje WESTERN (NATO) WIKI VIEWs 

message: The content of the article is not structured in a very coherent way.  The following is a rewritten version which I propose substituting if there are no substantive objections.
"(Introduction)
Trnopolje camp was a concentration camp established in the village of Trnopolje near the city of Prijedor in northern Bosnia and Herzegovina in the first months of the Bosnian War.  After the camp's existence was discovered by the international media in July 1992. and footage of Trnopolje and of the Omarska camp was shown around the world, the pressure of public outrage led to the camps' closure.
The Trnopolje camp was operated as part of a network of camps in the Prijedor area. Located close to the Trnopolje rail station, it served primarily as a transit camp for the forcible deportation of members of the non-Serb population of the Prijedor area.  It was also used to hold prisoners transferred from "investigational" camps prior to release or exchange.  Several hundred inmates were killed at Trnopolje and others killed after being transported away from the camp, notably in the 
Koricani Cliffs massacre. Rapes, beatings and other forms of torture were not uncommon. 
(Section)The camp
The local Bosnian Serb authorities claimed that Trnopolje was "a transit camp" for members of the non-Serb, mainly Bosniak, population of the Prijedor region where members of the non-Serb (Bosniak and Bosnian Croat) civilian population found "innocent" after "investigation" in the other Prijedor camps, Omarska, Keraterm and Manjača, were confined and detained.  It was operated by the Republika Srpska authorities and local paramilitary police 
Trnopolje has been described variously as a ghetto, a prison and a detention camp but according to the United Nations Commission of Experts (the Bassiouni Commission) in their Report to the UN Security Council "Logor Trnopolje", as they described it, was "a concentration camp" that functioned as a staging area for mass deportations of non-Serbs, mainly women, children, and elderly men, while the Omarska and Keraterm camps to which the adult men were taken were death camps.  The Report used the Bosnian word "logor" in relation to the Prijedor camps to distinguish from the wide range of other institutions covered by the English term "camp" and indicate the inhumane nature of their regimes.
The majority of detainees were Bosniaks from north-west Bosnia but Croats and other non-Serbs were also held at Trnopolje. Most of the camp inmates were women and children who had been expelled or fled from their homes and whose male family members had been detained in other locations. Others were prisoners transferred into the camp from other camps in the Prijedor camp system. Reports place the number of detainees at between 1,500 and 7,000 during the summer and early fall of 1992.http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/comexpert/ANX/VIII-06.htm  
(Section)Conditions
The camp, which was situated on the grounds of a school and a community center ("dom"), was enclosed by wire fencing, including barbwire, and surrounded by machine gun emplacements, although according to testimony of witnesses, compared to other detention camps in the region security at Trnopolje was relatively low-level.  Detainees were fed only sporadically, but were allowed to forage for food outside the detention area's perimeter.
The Stakić Trial Judgment described the conditions as follows:
Rapes, beatings and other kinds of torture and even killings were not uncommon. In its Judgment in the Brđanin case, the ICTY's Trial Chamber found that in the period from 28 May to October 1992:
  The bodies of people killed in the camp were usually removed soon after by other camp inmates who were ordered to take them away and bury them.
The first period was allegedly the worst, with the highest numbers of inmates killed, raped, and otherwise mistreated and tortured. The Serb soldiers used baseball bats, iron bars, rifle butts and whatever they had at their disposal to beat the detainees, including their hands and feet. Individuals taken out for questioning would often return bruised or injured.
Several witnesses testified that women who were detained at the Trnopolje camp were taken out of the camp at night by Serb soldiers and raped or sexually assaulted. There are reports that young girls between 10 and 14 years old were also raped.http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/comexpert/ANX/NOTES/08-06.htm#fn3233 A victim of rape in the camp confirmed that several women and young girls, including a 13 year old one, were raped in the camp or taken out at night for this purpose. The rape of 30-40 prisoners on 6 June 1992 is reported by both the Report of the Commission of Experts (Vol. IV, Ann. VIII, pp. 251-253) and a publication of the United States State Department.
In August 1992, during the closure of the camp, some 200 former male inmates were separated and killed in the Koricani Cliffs massacre.
(Section)The LM controversy
Claims published subsequently by the British magazine Living Marxism (LM) that footage filmed at Trnopolje deliberately misrepresented the situation in the camp eventually prompted the Independent Television News (ITN) network to sue LM for libel. Following ITN's victory in a court case in which the evidence given by the camp doctor led LM to abandon its defence, the magazine declared itself bankrupt, avoiding payment of the large damages awarded.
(Section)The Judgment of the ICJ
The ICJ presented its judgment in Bosnian Genocide Case on 26 February 2007, in which it had examined atrocities committed in detention camps, including Trnopolje, in relation to Article II (b) of the Genocide Convention. The Court stated in its judgment:
" Opbeith (talk) 07:23, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed rewriting 

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thread_title: File:Trnopolje Camp.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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