Talk:Pinotage

message: I have removed the word controversial. For a start it was illogical - how could a wine variety be controversial? On the other hand controversy might surround it, but I don't believe that it does. I suspect that the writer was trying to convey the concept that the grape variety has had a chequered history of success. The word controversial in my view does not answer.Tashkop 04:50, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Controversial?

message: Completely rewritten, really needs some photos. Has anyone got a primary source for van Rensburg's "child rape" quote? FlagSteward 19:31, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Great rewrite. Well done. I have however reverted here the comments of Tashkop. Discussion should not be removed from talk pages. --Bduke 22:23, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Rewrite

message: Update I've done some work on the article, including fashioning out a "Criticism" section. My overall concern was the WP:NPOV presentation and the weight of the criticism versus the rest of the article. I let the reliable sources be my guide and it seems while most sources make an effort to mention that there is some criticism, they rarely go beyond a few lines in saying what that criticism is about. To that extent, I think article is actually a little "unbalanced" in including more of that criticism then what the sources did. It seems that the story of Pinotage mostly exist on the ebb and flow of fashion with it rising in popularity as a "national treasure" for a few years and then being poo poo in favor of Cab & Shiraz in other years. In my opinion, the criticism section could be trim down and still convey the views of the critics in a balance proportion. That said, I am even more convinced now that the "child rape" comment is a bit overtop and not needed. It would be even more undue weight to the criticism since few, if any reliable sources, use this particular quote to "summarize" the criticism of Pinotage. While none of my sources even mention Van Rensburg, the online sources I saw only seem to mention it as an interesting side bit or summary of Van Rensburg's own isolated feelings about Pinotage rather than as some broad scope of how a segment of South African winemakers feel. I can see many good reasons for including it in an article about Van Rensburg himself, I just can't see an encyclopedic reason for it to be in this article. AgneCheese/Wine 17:01, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, the "child rape" comment would be more relevant in an article about the winemaker. I do find his opinion on Pinotage interesting in that an opinion from such a notable winemaker can be that extreme. Rarely are sentiments about an entire varietal expressed so strongly, and I don't recall any other instance of a mere grape inciting such vitriolic passion. Then again, if he's given to expressing strong opinions anyway (Fred Franzia, the maker of Charles Shaw wine comes to mind as a U.S. example), then just another strong opinion isn't as meaningful considering the source. -Amatulić (talk) 19:11, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Franzia is an excellent example. He can be a bit...extreme. I remember an interview where he said 90% of California winemakers are either crooks, frauds or hippies. :P While he is certainly a notable figure in California wine and it is certainly an interesting quote, I wouldn't advocate its inclusion in the California wine article. With the "child rape" quote, it is also a "far extreme" to the point of being almost WP:FRINGE. While criticism and disdain of Pinotage is not unheard of, the extreme and bizarre comparison to child rape is distinctly a minority view. I couldn't find any source, from any winemaker/wine writer listing a view point even scantily similar. The closest I could find was someone saying its a "crappy grape that makes wines that taste like banana flavored paint". Harsh criticisms, yeah but no where close to comparing a wine grape to child rape. AgneCheese/Wine 19:24, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Criticism section

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thread_title: [[WP:FOOD|WikiProject Food and drink]] Tagging

message: Directing persons to pronounce the last syllable of this varietal by using a word containing an "r" can lead to ridiculous results.  An example is the press release for English singer Sade some years back; it always included the guide, "Shar-DAY".  Radio and TV announcers across America, Canada, and many other English-speaking countries dutifully repeated the shortsighted example with a hard "r" and for years the hapless Sade had to appear on camera with well-intentioned interviewers addressing her as ShaRRR-Day.
Now the mis-step is being repeated.  The pronunciation guide is only helpful in cultural areas that do not sound the "r" in the first place so to include it in an international guide such as this is less than helpful;  misleading really.
I'm no linguist, but I would be better served if the phonetic example were more like "pinno-taj" or pinno-tazh"
Comments?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.89.156.176 (talk) 18:46, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation guide of limited usefulness 

message: South Africa's top producers have turned from focusing predominantly on Pinotage to using it more as a blending component, or have stopped using it at all.[11]
The only supporting material for the above statement is an article by James Molesworth, a visiting American journalist.
In the referred article he does not offer any evidence to support this and names no 'top producers'.
He says
The region's top producers are conceding that Pinotage is not making the grade. They are turning more and more to Cabernet Sauvignon and Syrah for their reds, while sometimes using Pinotage in blends, where it can be an interesting component.
"I'm a great believer that this is the way for the future," says Engelbrecht, whose Rust en Vrede estate is moving toward producing just one red wine, a Cabernet-based blend. 
The implication is that Rust en Vrede, by moving towards producing just a Cabernet based blend, has stopped using Pinotage. However, Rust en Vrede has never used Pinotage. They grow only Cab Sauv, Merlot and Shiraz. They used to grow and make Tinta Barocca but the last vintage of that  before the vines were removed was 2000.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.114.108.134 (talk) 12:57, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:   In the early 21st century, several of South Africa's top producers have turned from focusing predominantly on Pinotage to using it more as a blending component, or have stopped using it at all.[11] 

message: What does this mean?Euonyman (talk) 13:50, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  "coffee styled pinotage"