Talk:Caracal

message: Twice user  changed the properly sourced etymology: , . With the second edit they called me nuts. I have reverted twice, explicitly pointing to the cited source, and explaining in my edit summary: : "Source says: "ce qui dans ces trois langues veut dire: chat aux oreilles noires" (cat with black ears)" Comments welcome. - DVdm (talk) 15:57, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Noticed it too and agree to your reverts. Their scolding is surely not WP:CIVIL -- BhagyaMani (talk) 16:09, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

text: The source gives the name in three languages and generalises the translation. According to Smellie's English translation (index) it says: "In Turkish, Karrah-kulak; in Arabic, Gat el Challah; in Persian Siyah-gush.  In all these three languages, the denominations signify the cat with black ears". My lingistic skills can detect a possible use of the word for cat in the Arabic name, but is the word for cat part of the Turkish and Persian names? I think it might not be. A bit later it says "The karacoulacs are animals somewhat larger than cats, and of the same make.  They have black ears, nearly half a foot long, and from this circumstance they derive their name, which signifies black ear." —  Jts1882 | talk  16:34, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  I added the ref to Buffon's account, who translated the Turkish meaning of Karrah-kulak black ear for 'the cat with black ears'. This is the earliest use of and explanation for the name Caracal I could find. -- BhagyaMani (talk) 16:46, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  It's looking to me that Karrah-kulak mean "black ear". A bit later the English translation adds "The karacoulacs are animals somewhat larger than cats, and of the same make.  They have black ears, nearly half a foot long, and from this circumstance they derive their name, which signifies black ear." (the original French).  —  Jts1882 | talk  16:53, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Well yes, as standalone words: kara = black and kulak = ear, but combined kara-kulak = the black-eared one. Would Buffon have known a black-eared donkey, dog or rabbit in Turkey, he might have searched for an additional Turkish word for cat. But in his understanding, the combined word is the name for this black-eared cat. Hope this solves the riddle  -- BhagyaMani (talk) 17:07, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

text: I would just like to pop in and bring up WP:OR for a moment. That is, if the sources say that kara-kulak means cat-with-black-ears, then that is what we say. Even if our own linguistic skills say that it is compound of black-ears; the native speakers could still use it to mean cat-with-black-ears.--SilverTiger12 (talk) 17:48, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Quite OR indeed. If indeed the consensus here would be that the "cat with" part should be dropped, then at the very least we need to also replace the current (mistrusted) source with two accepted, trusted alternative sources. - DVdm (talk) 18:13, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not agree to drop the "cat with" part. Just because the name clearly refers to a cat, as referenced to Buffon, and not to any other creature. -- BhagyaMani (talk) 18:29, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Same here. Thanks. - DVdm (talk) 18:31, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

text: Warned for personal attacts at User talk:Mehmetkose. - DVdm (talk) 19:35, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etymology 

message: :The following discussion is an archived discussion of a  Merge Proposal and / or Redirect. Please do not modify it.  The result of the request for the Proposed Merger of {requested article} into this talk page's article was:
Not Done—No Consensus to Merge.—     —     —     —     —
  A formal request has been received to merge: Caracal (genus) into Caracal; dated: May 2021. Proposer's Rationale: none stated.  Requested by .  Discuss here. GenQuest "scribble" 05:41, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: In the absence of a rationale, and given that the sources cited on the relevant pages state that the genus Caracal is not currently considered monotypic, I'm going to call this a strong oppose. If there is a clear scientific consensus that C. aurata is now a member of a different genus, that can be revisited, but I'm not seeing evidence of one on a search of Google Scholar, or of our existing sources. Anaxial (talk) 06:05, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

text: Strong oppose. It would require a clear rationale for merging the article on a non-monotypic genus with the article on one of the species in the genus and not the other. The African golden cat was previously placed in Profelis. Severtzov created Profelis as a subgenus for one variety of African golden cat (he also created Chrysailurus for another variety of African golden cat), Pocock also included the Asian golden cat, and MSW3 has a monotypic Profelis. The latter would be a rationale for the merge, but we follow the IUCN Specialist Group classification. Now the evolutionary lineages of cats are fairly well defined, we are more likely to see further lumping (e.g. adding serval to Caracal) than the African golden cat being assigned to its own genus. If that happened then we would need to revisit. —  Jts1882 | talk  07:34, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

text: Strong oppose too for above reasons. -- BhagyaMani (talk) 17:13, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

text: Strong support to merge Caracal (genus) into Caracal. The former article will forever remain a three-line runt, its meager content really belonging in the latter. (Strong, merely to provide some balance vis-a-vis the above opposes.) - DVdm (talk) 17:26, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge proposal

message: Yesterday I added a photo of caracal Gregory into the article, but my edit was reverted by user:DVdm. He also asked me for "sources" on my talk page. Although I do not understand what kind of sources he needs for adding a photo of a caracal in the article about caracals, I added some text about the meme with sources about its significance. It was reverted by user:Certes who cited "consensus" from 2020 from the talk page. However, as it was correctly noted by user:Anaxial in the section "#The caracal as a meme" "if there were a reliable source demonstrating its cultural significance, such as a dedicated article in a major newspaper (say), then it might be appropriate to add it". I provided references to four indipendent articles in major newspapers which say that the floppa meme is very popular, so the "consensus" is not relevant today. So, I pointed out that fact to him and undid his revision; as far as I see User:Certes doesn't mind.  However, user:DVdm reverted my edits without any arguments (meaningless comments like "No thanks" or "Unreliable" don't count as arguments), moreover he accused me of edit warring even though he was the one who started reverting my edits without reasoning. I ask all interested users to provide their opinions on this situation. If there won't be real arguments I will revert the information again. --xvodolazx (talk) 06:55, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: The big floppa meme has been added multiple times in the past few years + been deleted every time by different wikipedians. And I fully agree to deleting it. -- BhagyaMani (talk) 07:06, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  It was deleted because it had been added without sources. Now sources are added and I don't see reasonable grounds for deleting it except for personal santiment of some users. --xvodolazx (talk) 07:17, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

text:  Besides, if it "has been added multiple times in the past few years" don't you think that this fact indicates that the information about the meme is actually needed? --xvodolazx (talk) 07:21, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

text:  Looks like keeping caracals as pets is popular in Russia, which is appalling! And no, I do NOT think that this should be part of a GA article. -- BhagyaMani (talk) 07:26, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  And a wiki article should by no means used to making such practises even more popular than they are! -- BhagyaMani (talk) 07:31, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Unfortunately, this argument has nothing to do with the rules of Wikipedia. See WP:SOAP and WP:CENSOR. --xvodolazx (talk) 07:50, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

text: According to all the cited sources (see section #The caracal as a meme), this clearly is the name of one specific single pet cat. Wikipedia is not the place to list the names of our pets. - DVdm (talk) 08:46, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  A meme based on a single cat doesn't disqualify it from being notable. The Grumpy Cat is a meme based on a particular pet cat and even has its own article on Wikipedia. However, that doesn't mean I support adding the big floppa meme. If there are sources discussing it as a globally popular and long-lasting meme, then I think a short addition could be justified, but adding information on memes should only be in exceptional cases and not just any meme that has its moment of fame. —  Jts1882 | talk  09:57, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree with Jts1882.  We should include Big Floppa only if sufficiently notable, and I don't think that's yet been demonstrated.  As for edit warring, WP:BRD applies.  The meme has been boldly added and reverted eight times, by my reckoning; now we leave the article in its original state while we discuss.  The onus is on those wishing to add the material to show that it is suitable.  Certes (talk) 11:25, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Why do you think its notability hasn't been demonstrated? I added four articles (and one more below) from respected websites, in my opinion it is more than enough for a short line of text. You can also look for more sources on the Russian page ru:Большой Шлёпа. --xvodolazx (talk) 12:03, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  I don't read Russian, so I'll leave that for User:Somebody "Notme" Else to answer. Certes (talk) 14:07, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:   Copy/pasting to Google Translate does a very good job translating Russian to English. For instance: , , . - DVdm (talk) 16:27, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

text:  (1) Although Gregory's photos are the most used templates for the memes, according to ru:TJournal other cats can play Floppa's role too. So, Gregory and Floppa aren't exactly the same. (2) But even if the whole Floppa thing was based only on Gregory, it doesn't nullify its significance. Many good articles about animals mention every single prominent example of the respective species (see, for instance, Beagle#In_popular_culture, Lemur#In_popular_culture, Walrus#Culture). The Big Floppa meme is still highly popular since late 2019, so it certainly is appropriate for this article. --xvodolazx (talk) 11:44, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Good that you provided those links that clearly show that these species featured in comics, films and folklore. And several other species featured as characters in literature written by prominent writers, e.g. The Jungle Book. This does NOT apply to floppa !! -- BhagyaMani (talk) 12:58, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Article "Lemur" mentions probably every single appearance of lemurs in culture. Article "Walrus" mentions chess made from walrus ivory. Article "Beagle" mentions even the name of a ship and a couple of dog-show winners. I consider the existance of a popular meme as no more trivial for the article about caracals than aforesaid examples. --xvodolazx (talk) 11:40, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

text:  What do you mean by sufficient notability? The sources say that it does have notability. --xvodolazx (talk) 11:40, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  What is needed is sources indicating that this is a global meme of significance. The sources I saw in the edited version were all in Russian, which shows some recent significance within Russia, but not more globally. I did a search and could only find it discussed in some meme-related blogs and on reddit. If you could find some further international coverage, say in a western European or North American newspaper, then that would be evidence of a phenomenon with broader significance. —  Jts1882 | talk  13:45, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  The sources I provided directly say that this is a globally popular meme. Moreover, it initially appeared in the English internet and later spread to Russia. I also have sources in Portugese and Indonesian. According to WP:MONDIAL and WP:NOENG non-English sources are allowed and can be used to prove facts. --xvodolazx (talk) 06:57, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: If you come up with a short story, novel, folk tale or peer-reviewed article about your floppa, I will agree to include this. But not as long as you only provide links to short-lived newspaper and website articles; none of these shows that it is worthwhile to be included in an ENGLISH encyclopedia. – BhagyaMani (talk) 07:17, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit war 

message: In common with true lynxes, the caracal has a short tail (relative to most other cat species), although it is not as proportionately short as theirs. Drsruli (talk) 05:27, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tail 

message: The article says the name caracal is originated from Turkish. The name in Turkish is karakulak, not 'karrah-kulak' or 'kara-coulac'. These versions can be its pronunciations in English. As stated here, kara  means black and kulak means ear. Thus the meaning of the name is 'black ear,' not 'cat with black ears'. Cat is kedi in Turkish. 'Cat with black ears' can be translated as  kara kulaklı kedi. I made an edit on the article to reflect this but  reverted it twice. I'm a native speaker of Turkish by the way. BSRF (talk) 15:03, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Please see the Etymology discussion above, where you are specifically already called out to review. - UtherSRG (talk) 15:25, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin of the name 

message: The Caracal cat is often given the nickname “Floppa” as a meme sensation. Levyy24 (talk) 19:39, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: See the lengthy discussion above. Anaxial (talk) 19:52, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Common nickname 

message: Africa, Vietnam, India and Pakistan 110.144.148.103 (talk) 21:20, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Already in article. Anaxial (talk) 04:44, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Common country’s they live in. 

message: Caracals also prey on other small and even medium sized carnivores such as foxes, mongoose and jackals. Jackals were discovered within the stomach contents of some Caracals.47.197.29.147 (talk) 00:00, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Caracal prey items.