Talk:Royal National College for the Blind

message: I have been expanding the history section of this article as it started off well, but was rather scant on events during the 20th Century.  I have also added some information about the forthcoming Cutting Edge documentary which is to feature the college - hope I didn't jump the gun by doing this and that what I have added is relevant.  Thanks 217.44.163.106 19:02, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cutting Edge Documentary 

message: It should probably be noted that the college is changing a lot, for a start A-levels are being phased out. It would also be good to have something about our student union activities. Boris17 (talk) 12:25, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Have now added some information regarding this and other subjects in attempt to get this up to standard of other college/university articles. Feel free to help by adding further details, eg name of new Hall of Residence, number of students at college, a few images, etc. Paul Largo (talk) 22:21, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Future of the college 

message: In preparation for the GA review I have done some significant copyedits to get the prose running more smothly. It's not too bad now, but there are other issues which must have attention:-
*You must explain properly what "Beacon Status" means, and briefly mention its relationship to OFSTED. The wikilinks are not enough - there must be explanation in the text.
*According to the RNC website, Prince Charles is the Patron of the college. There are high profile supporters, but Charles is the only Patron (with capital P). See what the website says.
*History
**"...forced to leave its London home." A bit more explanation required as to why it was "forced". Were the premises commandeered by the military, for example? Did they leave for fear of possible bombing (which later occurred)? 
***I've changed it to evacuated from London. No reason is actually given for the move, but I guess they would have feared possible bombing. Not sure exactly how to address this.
**"more suitable accommodation was found..." - in what ways were the Shrewsbury premises "unsuitable"? The college had been there for donkey's years.
***The Shrewsbry college was situated on several different sites, quite a distance apart, and the move to Hereford enabled RNC to consolidate into one campus.
**Is there a distinction between "teaching accommodation" and "learning accommodation", or does this mean "acommodation for teaching and learning"? Clarify.
***I think that should be teaching and residential.
**I don't think it is correct to italicise the college name - check MoS.
**You say "the blocks were originally built...in the 1960s and were updated to include modern facilities". I would expect 1960s buildings to have fairly modern facilities. You need to say briefly what the additional facilties were that were included in the new buildings, not just say they were modern.
**When you say "only college of its type", do you mean "only college for the blind"? If so, say so.
*There are no formal acaemic entry qualifications - but only 200 places. So who decides who gets in? There is later reference to an assessment centre, which might have something to do with this, but there should be some explanation here.
**Added some information about the nature of assessment at RNC.
*The term "areas of study" is probably better than "areas of teaching"
**Agreed
*You need some explanation for the sentence: "Students have also seen (unfortunate phrasing) a reduction in the number of A levels available for study. This needs an explanation. Also, for the benefit of non-Brit readers you need to link GCSE, AS and A level.
**The A Level reductions is dealt with in the Criticisms section. Let me know if more is needed. I also agree that the sentence 'Students have seen' is a bit of an unfortunate use of terminology so I've rephrased it.
*Re the houses on and off he campus. Clarify these are part of student residential accommodation. Do these houses have any significant role to play in, for example, life preparation?
*"Among sporting activities available at RNC are blind football and acoustic shooting." This sentence is somewhat isolated here. Football and shooting are activities, not facilities which is what this section is about. They are also only two sporting/leisure activities. There oughr to be a whole section on activities, not just the mention of these two.
If you can deal with all these points, the article could have a reasonable chance of making GA. Brianboulton (talk) 00:07, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Good Article nomination - things to do

message: If possible, I would like to move this article to Royal National College for the Blind per Wikipedia:Mos#Article_titles. We really try to avoid "The" as much as possible for school articles and the Ofsted lists Royal National College for the Blind and it's also abbreviated RNC. Many thanks, --Jh12 (talk) 19:54, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Best wishes, --Jh12 (talk) 20:05, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move to Royal National College for the Blind 

message: Is Ian Pickford still acting principal or does he hold the position permanently now? I notice recent news articles about the college refer to him as principal rather than acting principal. Perhaps someone connected with the college could confirm what his status is and we can update the article's infobox. Thanks Paul Largo (talk) 13:54, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Principal 

message: I'm putting together a list of principals to add to this article in my continued endeavour to improve it. This is what I have so far. Please let me know if I have missed any. Paul Largo (talk) 19:36, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of Principals 

message: A few notes regarding the sources which tripped up the article at the first FAC.
* Patient UK - article now created and referenced from several reliable sources.
* Excellence Gateway - part of the Learning and Skills Improvement Service, Government body (generally regarded as reliable). LSIS now also has an article.
* Response Source - replaced with a press release from the college which contains the same information.
* Leisure Opportunities - magazine used throughout the leisure industry for several years and highly regarded. References interesting information about the leisure complex, but can be removed if required.
Paul Largo (talk) 14:03, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources 

message: I've added a few pictures of this college which I took during a trip to Hereford last summer. It should help to enhance the article. Unfortunately I don't know how to do alt text so someone else will have to add that. Bootlegbobby (talk) 16:11, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Cool. Thanks for uploading those. Images of RNC seem to be quite difficult to come by so it's great that we now have a few more. The article looks much better with some pictures to illustrate some of the things being discussed. I'm not sure whether we're allowed to use the Prince Charles picture though, but I'll leave it for now. Also I'll add some alt text. Cheers Paul Largo (talk) 17:52, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pictures 

message: I've been asked by PaulLargo to submit this article to FAC again so I'll do this later in the week. I might also drop a line to those who took part in the previous review processes to let them know what I am doing. I am familiar with the article having done some work on it, but hope it's all right to put it forward for FAC. Cheers TheRetroGuy (talk) 12:01, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  FAC request 

message: In response to a note on my talk page, I reviewed the article in anticipation of listing as an FAC. The article has come a long way since I reviewed it at the last FAC . It seems much more comprehensive and detailed. There are some areas where I think a bit more detail or some examples would improve it further still, and I’ve pointed them out below.
General
* The quotations are used nice and help bring the article to life. Some quotes to illustrate the history and/or some of the schools more unique contributions would be good additions.
* As it stands, the school’s accomplishments and national recognition are buried in the history sections. There is no right way to do it, of course, but it might be more readable if the TV shows, Ofsted evaluations, etc. were pulled out into their own section. Many school articles have Recognition and accomplishments sections or something similar.
* What impact has this school had on the education of the visually impaired in the UK or even internationally? Clearly, it is a pioneer in technology. Has it made pioneering contributions to educational theory and practice, as well?
Lead
* It seems like it could be reworked to  better summarize the article. History and academics in particular seem underweighted.  The “controversial period”, for  example, could use some more explanation.
* To avoid recentism, date the claims like number of students and  avoid “present home” and “present name”
* Wikilink London?
* “It will have a role …” is vague. What it will be?
* “It is regarded as a leader” By whom?
* Briefly explain Beacon Status for us benighted Americans?
* “This led to concerns…” Was there any result of this? Seems too open ended for the lead.
* “The college is the subject of a 2007 documentary … “ You mean “was the subject”?
History
* “… support of the British Nobility.” Surely not all of them. Who in particular? I think you mean the list of eminent persons in the following sentence. If so, you could just delete this phrase here.
* “… opened for business”.  Too colloquial?
* “… the college was considered very progressive” By whom?
* “… the college admitted school age students” I don’t know what that means. The whole sentence is confusing. What ages are we talking about?
* Wikilink Kent?
* “… stands to the present day” As of 2010?
* “Inspectors graded the college as 'outstanding'”. “Outstanding”?
* “… conditions made using their own grounds difficult.” Why not “Their own grounds at Edgar Street”  and link the stadium directly?
* The same for Hereford College of Education
* The Restructuring section is difficult to follow. Was reducing the piano tuning courses the only controversy? The lead in to the paragraph suggests there was more going on. Perhaps the paragraphs that follow are meant to describe the controversies as well. It just does not read clearly.
* “Financial concerns were raised with the opening of the new leisure complex and because of a reorganisation of student funding”  This sentence is not clear to me
* Thepoint4.jpg is tiny and out of focus. Is there a better one? In any case, it drops down into the following section (at least on my screen) and should be moved up.
* Is it Ofsted or OFSTED?
Assistive Technology
* “… working with a United States based software engineer” Do we know who?
* “The device was originally developed for educational purposes but can be adapted for other uses” For example?
* “… manufactured by a company based in Australia” Which company?
* Are there photos available of any of these devices?
* Braille should be linked on first appearance, not here.
* “ClearText, which enables visually impaired users to browse the web more easily.” How does it work? Developed by whom?
Academics
* This section seems very thin given that it is the main business of the college.  This seems like the weakest section at the moment.  It should paint more of a picture of the life and work of the school. Why does it offer the courses it does? How does it accommodate the students’ blindness? What is the educational philosophy?  Unique approach? And so on.  There must be a lot more interesting detail to be shared here.
* Are the courses mentioned in the first paragraph the same as the “areas of study” in the list? If not, what are they?
* The bullet list should be converted to prose, with more explanation of each area of study and how they are adapted to the education of the blind.
* Overlinking: vision.
* Briefly explain GCSE , A-Level, Higher education for the unfamiliar?
Campus
* What is a “traditional” hall of residence?
* “… a new state of the art block, Orchard Hall, was built to replace it” State of the art according to who?
* “… modern facilities in accordance with Care Standards and Disability Discrimination Act requirements” For example?
* “… a licensed student social club” Does that mean they serve alcohol?
* “Its members have representatives on committees at all levels”. What committees?
* Overlinking: contemporary art.
* RNC Orchard Hall.jpg is really tiny. Something larger maybe?
* Any chance of a photo of ‘’4runner’’?
 
Extracurricular activities
* Can you say more about blind football and cricket? How are they played?
* Are there photos of any of these activities?
* Overlinking: choir
* Should you mention the 2010 Blind Football Championship here, instead of in the history?
Principals
* This section seems unnecessary. Some of the content could be moved to the History section, some to Notable people. The knighting of Campbell and succession by his family could be a footnote in the Founding section.
* The list should be merged with the main list of people and deleted here.
Notable people
* You mention the founding patrons above. No need to repeat them here.
See also
* I would hesitate to include this section in an FA candidate. See WP:ALSO.
External links
* I would also pare this down dramatically, probably to just the official website. See WP:EL.
I hope these comments help. I see no reason not to list it at FAC, and I will be happy to comment there, as well.
--Nasty Housecat (talk) 19:20, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  FAC Suggestions 

message: Just been updating refs from their website as they've recently revamped it. Give me a shout if I've missed any. Cheers Paul MacDermott (talk) 20:30, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Updates 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Perhaps it's just me, but it seems a shame that the photo used in the 'Notable people and alumni' section isn't one of the latter. JezGrove (talk) 21:13, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable alumni 

message: @This is Paul, I just did a quick review of this FAC. It's one of only 4 remaining FAs for an extant higher/further education institution, 12 others having been delisted since September 2020. I'd love to avoid a similar fate here, but it'll need a bunch of work. I've taken care of updating the logo, which was many years out of date. Here are some other concerns:
*The student count is from 2008.
*The history section is weighted heavily toward the 2000s, but then cuts off and includes nothing after 2011.
*Putting the "Assistive technology" section (equivalent to the "Research" section in some other articles) above the "Education" section seems like a misprioritization.
*Ofsted inspection appears out of date.
*The photo for the campus section is only 139px wide, which isn't acceptable in 2022.
*Trying to check the "current" president reveals a dead link, and I presume there are many more. Also MOS:MRS in this line.
*I'm not that familiar with the British system, but I question whether Charles, Prince of Wales is really so involved in the actual operation of the institution that he should be pictured.
*Per WP:NPROF criterion 6, all leaders of the college are notable, and those without articles should therefore be redlinked.
*The "financial crisis" section at the end I presume was added after the FAC. It's got MOS:CURRENT, WP:UNDUE, and source formatting issues, and should be merged into the history section.
*On comprehensiveness, comparing with the most recent college FA, Pomona College (nominated by me), there are a number of elements missing. I'd like to see more information about the college's governance, finances, tuition, outcomes statistics, reputation and rankings, admission practices, student demographics, and student life outside extracurriculars (traditions, food, transportation options, etc.).
*There could be a few more external links, such as to student media or an Ofsted page.
These concerns will need to be addressed for the article to maintain its featured status. Best,  talk 21:10, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: It's been a while since I looked at this, but it definitely needs an update. I'll do what I can but am busier in real life than I was when I took this through FAC in 2010. Everything except point 10 ought to be easy to address though. I mention point 10 in particular because I'm not quite sure what you mean by reference to food and transportation options. I'll have a look at the article you mention, but be ready to elaborate on these. This is Paul (talk) 08:02, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: No worries about being busy; there's not a huge rush so long as progress is being made. Yeah, there's definitely the most to do on the comprehensiveness front. For student life, broadly, what I'm looking to see is information on what it's like day-to-day as a student, particularly for residential students (akin to this). You currently have extracurricular activities, which is one part of that, but it's not everything. On second glance, I see you do mention dining arrangements in the campus section, so that's probably fine (I should also note that how much to say about that is debated). Transportation is how students get around on campus or off campus (akin to this); it'd be the place to note if there's e.g. a bus network. Cheers,  talk 08:18, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Concerns with this FA