Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Pokémon/Archive 8

message: Archived once again, keeping the FFA. Feel free to re-add any relevant topics. Alvin6226  talk  04:11, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Archiving

message: I believe that veekun.com pokédex, accessible at http://www.veekun.com/dex/pokemon/number, is more funcional than Serebii.net's pokédex. I'd like to see it replacing serebiidex. If people have comments, please post here, I attempted to add it without consensus and user:A Man In Black reverted me. ~crazytales56297 O rly? Ya rly! 20:04, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe it's more functional because it contains more information presented in a better layout, by the way. ~crazytales56297 O rly? Ya rly! 20:14, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Ridiculous amount of images, lack of fourth gen info, images manipulated by people for certain websites shouldn't be stolen regardless, the dex is incomplete. Doesn't this fall under original research? Highway Grammar Enforcer! 20:29, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Images manipulated by certain people? Explain? ~crazytales56297 O rly? Ya rly! 20:35, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The "shiny" Sugimori artwork, I know of only two places where the creator allowed its use, Pokebeach and Pokemonelite. I highly doubt you were extended this welcome. Highway Grammar Enforcer! 22:27, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

text: There are also other good features: calculator of stat %iles, awex0me search function, comparisons between pokémon, and Eevee will get the d/p dex up soon. ~crazytales56297 O rly? Ya rly! 20:45, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We're set for fansite Pokédexes, thanks. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 20:53, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Please explain? We can get rid of the worse pokédexen at the same time, I see absolutely no problem with that. ~crazytales56297 O rly? Ya rly! 20:59, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Because Veekun's isn't significantly better than Serebii's, and I already know Serebii's doesn't have any major errors, something I don't necessarily know about Veekun. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 21:01, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

text: You're missing the point. WP:V requires a good source. While Veekun may very well be a good source, I've never heard of it. There must be a reason, with all the information that it has, and the reason which occurs to me is that some of said information is wrong. Besides, all the extra features only matter to people who are already Pokemon fans, meaning they're not needed. -Amarkov babble 21:55, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: hmm, good point. Conflict over. ~crazytales56297 O rly? Ya rly! 22:11, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

text: The issue is not that being unpopular automatically means it is inferior. The issue is that since few people have heard of it, we have no evidence at all that your pokedex is reliable. And since there are no extra features in yours that anyone but a pokemon fan would care about, it's safer to use the one that we know to be factually accurate, whether or not you think it may be a pain to read. -Amarkov babble 19:15, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Besides, we reference Serebii for more than just 'dex info.  They also cover all manga and anime sections of the subject as well.  -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 20:46, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Replace Serebiidex with Veekundex 

message: Right, I know that the Sugimori artwork is coming, it's at the Japanese Pokémon site which blocks non-JP IPs. Anyway, until then, some very nice people have uploaded all the sprite images, the only problem is-they haven't formatted them properly. My point is, should we tag the sprites, like this mock up I did? Or should we just let them get deleted (it's happening in three days), and wait for the Sugimori stuff to filter? I know some articles have that artwork, Enperuto (i think), and the three gods flying things. Thoughts? Highway Grammar Enforcer! 09:18, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd vote for delete and wait. Cheers, The Raven's Apprentice (Talk|Contribs) 12:59, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The Sugimori artwork's about a bajillion times better than the sprites.  Let's wait for those images.  --Brandon Dilbeck 17:01, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's for certain, but do we wait until the art's released before deleting the sprites or do we delete the sprites now and have a bunch of empty infoboxes for a short period of time? Erik Jensen (I appreciate talk!) 18:43, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Aw, just do whatever.  But when we have Sugimori's artwork, it's going to replace everything anyway.  It won't really make a difference in the long run.  --Brandon Dilbeck 18:48, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

text: None of the sprite images were sourced, it seems.  So they will be gone within a week, unless somebody can say where they came from.  -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 09:34, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We all know they came from Serebii, we're biding our time for the Sugimori art. Highway Grammar Enforcer! 17:58, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pixel artwork 

message: Ugh...had to add Pokestart to Murkrow and Houndour. I have kept the other language names in a separate paragraph, as they were in the old intro before Pokestart. Please work on this! Shin'ou's TTV (Futaba|Masago|Kotobuki) 23:30, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shadowy maintenance 

message: There's been a lot of speculation over the "official" or "trademarked" romanizations for certain Pokémon names recently, so to lessen the strain of unncessary editing and conflict, I've taken it upon myself to look them up on the Japanese Registry for Trademark Application website. The romanizations they have there are the official ones issued by Nintendo themselves, so no need to be changing them until the English names are released. And if the trademarked romanization isn't out yet, just leave the romanization as it is via the Hepburn method, no need to "guess". The site is down for now, so I'll finish up all the other names tomorrow. Shaojian 07:17, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trademarked Romanizations 

message: All users have been asked to participate in a mediation relating to the use images in articles detailing episodes of the Pokémon anime. If you wish to input into discussion, you can do so here, all help is welcomed towards a positive resolution. Cheers, Highway Daytrippers 21:06, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Unless anyone objects, the agreed resolutions above will be made policy and detailed here. Objectors will be given a 48 hour window to make their case before the mediation is finalised. Highway Daytrippers 11:45, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Unless anyone objects with 48 hours, I will close the mediation. Cheers, Highway Grammar Enforcer! 09:12, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image discussion 

message: Would it be good to create a special collection of all the Pokevandalism, some of which is super-funny? Shin'ou's TTV (Futaba|Masago|Kotobuki) 18:35, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think so.  I've been reverting edits on Mimiroppu for the past couple of days (all of them referring to its...feminine appearance) and none of them have been very funny or appropriate.  Most vandalism edits are stuff like "THIS POKEMON STINKS DONT USE IT!!!!!"  Joiz A. Shmo 19:16, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't think of any that kick too much Arseus. Except maybe the Misty atheism thing, and the wigglytuff swap babbling thing. -Amarkov babble 21:47, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ditto.  --Brandon Dilbeck 23:09, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I found in BJAODN today a part that was "from Millard Fillmore". Guess what? For some wacky reason, it was the intro to Brock's article! (:S) Shin'ou's TTV (Futaba|Masago|Kotobuki) 04:21, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: People keep adding to Skitty's and/or Wailord's page that they can breed together.  Also they claim that it's a "hot topic" in the forums.  -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 14:55, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As I mentioned earlier, I have a sub-page dedicated to just that purpose, it can be found here. This is my "Keepers" page, and it aims to memorialize the vandalism on Pokemon that isn't just misspelled rambling and page blanking. Feel free to submit anything you find there. :) Erik Jensen (I appreciate talk!) 16:02, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: To be fair, HSOWA is pretty big on GameFAQs forums, and absolutely nowhere else. -Amarkov babble 00:37, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That may be so, but it doesn't have to be mentioned in an article.  If we allowed that one, then all weird Poké-matchups would start being added.  Like: Pikachu and Arbok.  -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 19:52, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  PCP stuff on BJAODN 

message: This is the second time I'm gonna be posting this (the first being at the talk page of the Pokestart Template), but I'm gonna say it again here, because this is the most active relavant talk page (the talk page at Wikipedia:Pokémon Adoption Center/Style is kinda low traffic too).
I hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate HATE the standard intro to all pokemon articles. The first part is okay, but towards the end, it just gets bad. I have problems with  "The purpose of"  and  "untamed creatures encountered while the player passes through various environments"  specifically.
Pokemon do have a purpose, but their presence in the games and anime are more than just serving a purpose, the pokemon and their battles are the central focus of the entire franchise (excluding cute posters and toys), and wording this as "The purpose of" is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
In addition, all pokemon, tamed, and untamed, are creatures (if you count non-biological pokemon as creatures). Therefore, defining wild pokemon as creatures, but tamed pokemon as not (and that IS how the wording suggests it to be), is just stupid, and/or bad English. And "The player" defines pokemon only in game terms, not in terms of the entire franchise.
:oh, and that just reminded me. Should we really say "biological characteristics" in articles describing pokemon such as magnemite, porygon, and gengar? Blueaster 16:54, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As for the last bullet point, I do think that Anatomy would be better. THL 17:23, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

text: And how can you assert that those pokemon can be considered biological just because the Pokemon universe is different than ours? Whether or not certain pokemon are living things has never been brought up because the question  has never been brought up. To use the term "biological" implies that everything about all pokemon makes biological, scientific sense. Then we might as well say that the Pokemon universe is an extraordinarilly advanced world with teleportation and weight reducing pokeballs and nothing but trees, pokemon, and microorganisms and people, and that most industries are pokemon-related, and that there's no normal education, and most people don't have normal jobs. What i'm trying to say is that the pokemon universe is not totally defined, and begs plenty of questions, and so the best way to deal with it is just to talk about it only on the terms that it uses, not on real-world, scientific terms. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Blueaster (talk • contribs) .
Well, can you come up with a better version of the introduction? I'd be interested in finding out your take on it. By what I meant in the biological sense, what I was trying to say was that in the Pokémon universe, things like Gengar and Porygon are considered biological, while they wouldn't be so here. Highway Grammar Enforcer! 17:56, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

text: In the end, I suppose if they are born from eggs then they must have some biological characteristics. THL 18:23, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Metallic capsules? That's a bit of a stretch, even for Pokémon. Also, in order for something to develop inside of an egg/capsule, it must be able to assimilate matter; one of the qualifications for biological life. Anyway, the purpose of introductions is for people who are not familiar with the subject who discover the article to get a basic idea of the subject and what it is used for. In other words, introductions are to provide a basic idea of what the subject does, where it does it, and why. The purpose of the PCP is to eventually get all Pokémon articles up to FA status, and an intro that meets the above description is necessary along that road. The current intro may sound annoying to us, but that is because we already knew what it was saying before we read it. This intro provides context for those who don't watch or play Pokémon, and that is what the intro is for. THL 03:22, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Speaking of Pokémon biology, check this out.  -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 23:22, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice, I really liked the Torkoal one. THL 01:51, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

text: this "biological characteristics" thing has been brought up before... but there wasn't much dialogue about it... would people prefer "Characteristics" ?  i've also been thinking if there was a way to create an easy to use template for all species articles.  That way the intro would be easy to fix, all articles would be uniform n presentation and if we ever decided to make a massive change, we wouldn't have to go through each article, one by one. -Zappernapper 20:38, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The current intro is misleading and poorly worded 

message: As a seperate game that is very different from red and green, i think there needs to be a seperate article with all the info about it centralized there.
There's various links across WP that seem to link to an article about Japanese Blue version, but links instead to an article about Japanese Green/Global Blue version, or the article about both red and blue.
Only problem is, it only exists in Japanese, so we might be lacking in sources... unless there's some editors out there who can understand Japanese and use sources in Japanese. Blueaster 00:34, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I thought that Blue was the template used to make Red/Blue in the states.  Isn't Pokémon Green the different one?  -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 00:40, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Japanese Pokemon: Blue 

message: Someone brought up on Ho-oh's talk page that the spelling of the name should actually be "Ho-Oh".  My player's guides also support this.  What are everyone else's thoughts?  -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 02:32, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, pokemon.com's pokédex spells it with all caps and serebii.net uses a lowercase "o".  I say keep it the way it is, but my vote will change if a canonical example is shown. Joiz A. Shmo 03:59, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Um... If you don't consider the official pokemon website canonical, what do you want? -Amarkov babble 04:02, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If the official website isn't canonical, then what is?  The video game?  Unfortunately, the main games capitalize every letter, but in Mystery Dungeon, which doesn't capitalize everything, it's spelled "Ho-Oh".  I saw this in a screenshot in the player's guide.  Maybe we ought to go with that?  --Brandon Dilbeck 04:53, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I think it's safe to say that the card game is not canon - look at this whole Togepi mess... since the official site uses all caps the next best thing is one of the video games.  If Brandon says mystery dungeon is spelling it that way, i think it would be appropriate to move the page and change the current spellings in all the pages, provided we leave a desc. saying "as per Mystery Dungeon" or something like that. -Zappernapper 14:12, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible article name change 

message: Discussion at Wikipedia:Pokémon Collaborative Project/Image discussion has concluded, and the decision not to include images in the list articles has been made policy of this project. Thank you to all who contributed! Highway Grammar Enforcer! 17:51, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Concluded image discussion 

message: Does anyone think we should have our own grading system for articles, or should we just go through all the articles and grade them under the CVG template? The only problem with their's is that it doesn't give a lot of wiggle room under GA level, especially since we're aiming for GA to the top rung of our articles. What do others think? Highway Grammar Enforcer! 17:51, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, if others don't give a Hoothoot one way or another and you think it'd be good, then Knock Out yourself! (That's a Poke-pun there. ^_^) Erik Jensen (I appreciate talk!) 18:00, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we could really level up our articles with this. (That was another! XD) Highway Grammar Enforcer! 18:04, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This might be an example of the project evolving. Catch you later, then. Erik Jensen (I appreciate talk!) 18:34, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How do we determine what to rate an article?  Is it based on the importance of the subject of an article or how well the article's written?  --Brandon Dilbeck 20:02, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Foo, whoa, that's a lot of content.  Will this be typical of every article?  Also, with some exceptions (like Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Meowth, Mewtwo), I think most Pokémon ought to be rated low importance, just because there's so darn many of them.  The tricky thing would be determining which Pokémon are more important than others.  Torchic may be an exception because of its role as a starter Pokémon.  --Brandon Dilbeck 22:08, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I agree, but hopefully the assessment side will help with improving articles! Highway Grammar Enforcer! 22:16, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No one start implementing it just yet, I'm still twidling the field names. Sorry, Highway Grammar Enforcer! 22:31, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grading 

message: All but 2 of them are online, I'm removing prods and adding proper templates. I also asked SerebiiForums users to edit the pages and add points of interest. TTV (MyTV|PolygonZ|Green Valley) 21:13, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shin'ou towns 

message: So I'm looking at the GAs and FAs about Pokemon and I notice the following sections inserted in each of them:
:The Pokémon anime series and films are a meta-series of adventures separate from the canon that most of the Pokémon video games follow (with the exception of Pokémon Yellow, a game based on the anime storyline).  The anime follows the quest of the main character, Ash Ketchum Pokémon anime overview Psypokes.com. URL Accessed May 25, 2006.—an in-training Pokémon Master—as he, May, Hikari, and several other companions) travel around the fictitious world of Pokémon along with their Pokémon partners, Pikachu, Blaziken, Pokémon anime; May character bio Serebii.net. URL Accessed May 25, 2006. and Pochama. Pokémon anime character bio; Hikario bio Serebii.net. URL Accessed October 13, 2006.
:The Pokémon Trading Card Game is a collectible card game similar in goal to a Pokémon battle in the video game series; players must use cards (with individual strengths and weaknesses) in an attempt to defeat their opponent by "knocking out" all of his cards. Pokémon Trading Card Game "How to play" guide Pokemon-tcg.com. URL Accessed July 3, 2006. The game was first published in North America by Wizards of the Coast in 1999, until Nintendo USA started publishing the series in 2003. Pokemon Trading Card Game News; "Pokémon Ruby & Sapphire TCG Releases" Wizards.com. URL Accessed July 3, 2006.
It seems that having these in each article can only be a good thing for that article, and that these have to be there in the articles anyway in order for them to become Good Articles. So I'm wondering: Would it be a big help if I or someone else pasted the above into the anime and card sections of every one of the rest of the 493 Pokemon pages that don't have these yet? An example of what I have in mind can be seen in the Lombre article which I just pasted these paragraphs into. Erik Jensen (I appreciate talk!) 18:12, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Go mad, I use them whenever I write a GA, and they should be in all articles. The first can be used via a template at . The second one has a second bit to it, which needs to be altered depending on what stage it is. However I see no reason why the portion pasted shouldn't be also made into a template. Thanks for bringing this up! Highway Grammar Enforcer! 18:42, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Say hi to I assume I'm allowed to do that. -Amarkov babble 04:31, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I beg to oppose  on a minor point. Ash Ketchum, all right, but why May and Hikari, in particular? HighwayCello justifies their inclusion by claiming that they're as important to the anime as Ash himself, which, to me, sounds like exaggeration. But as for them being the protagonist's sidekicks, the same can be said of Misty, Brock, Tracey, Max, and even Todd/Snap. As for them being important to the anime, Team Rocket is, in fact, more important, having starred in a few episodes. So, is the inclusion of May and Hikari the expression of an anti-PokéShippy POV, or the result of a personal wish to provide Pokémon coordinators greater representation in Pokémon-related articles, or something even more bizarre? Yours inquisitively, The Raven's Apprentice (Talk|Contribs) 05:12, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They are the trainers who have been followed from the very beginning, have notably important Starter Pokémon, and collect gym badges, something Todd, Tracey, Misty, Brock or TR don't do. Highway Grammar Enforcer! 07:21, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: May and Hikari, gym badges?! --The Raven's Apprentice (Talk|Contribs) 07:32, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know, when I think of the anime, I think of Ash, Misty and Brock and sometimes May and Max.  But maybe that's because I haven't seen much past the first season.  -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 08:01, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I think the point Highway Cello is trying to make is that the sentence "follows the quest" really only applies to those three.  Everyone else is encountered well into their own personal pokemon adventure. Brock, Mistry, and TR were all well involved with pokemon before Ash ever met them. we only learn about their past through flashbacks.  by this same token Gary might be included, but the anime doesn't follow near as close as the others to be able to put them on par with each other. -Zappernapper 18:13, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you ZP! That is what I meant. </stupid> :) Highway Grammar Enforcer! 18:18, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, I'll have to agree with this one. But in any case, it needs a bit of rewording— the current wording makes it sound like all of them are travelling together, at the same time. Cheers, The Raven's Apprentice (Talk|Contribs) 05:45, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

text: By the way, just as a notice, I think it'd be better if I apply these templates and sections to articles that already have a lot of content in them, such as Silcoon and Cascoon; that way, pages that need work will be more obvious. Otherwise, it might seem that I'm using these templates as a subtle way to make underdeveloped articles merely look better. Erik Jensen (I appreciate talk!) 01:12, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, just don't add it to random, empty sections. Could you update the  with the version at the top of the discussion too? Thanks, Highway Grammar Enforcer! 07:19, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Highway Grammar Enforcer! 09:11, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Potential Project 

message: Hello. The WikiProject Council is currently in the process of developing a master directory of the existing WikiProjects to replace and update the existing Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory.  These WikiProjects are of vital importance in helping wikipedia achieve its goal of becoming truly encyclopedic. Please review the following pages:
*User:Badbilltucker/Culture Directory,
*User:Badbilltucker/Culture Directory 2,
*User:Badbilltucker/Philosophy and religion Directory,
*User:Badbilltucker/Sports Directory,
*User:Badbilltucker/Geographical Directory,
*User:Badbilltucker/Geographical Directory/United States, (note: This page will be retitled to more accurately reflect its contents)
*User:Badbilltucker/History and society directory, and
*User:Badbilltucker/Science directory
and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory.
The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters.
It is my hope to have the existing directory replaced by the updated and corrected version of the directory above by November 1. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 21:14, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry if you tried to update it before, and the corrections were gone. I have now put the new draft in the old directory pages, so the links should work better. My apologies for any confusion this may have caused you. B2T2 00:01, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Project Directory 

message: This user  from the WikiProject Cats has been adding the banner from his WikiProject to all cat-like Pokémon articles.  I have been noticing that this has been reverted on some, and he has added it since to others.  My question is, where exactly do we stand on this?  -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 01:31, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, the WikiProject Cats page states that they're interested in "articles related to cats, including both real and fictional cats."  I guess that several Pokémon could be considered cat-like—a few Pokémon are listed in the fictional cats category.  I don't think it's really hurting anything, but these characters are first and foremost Pokémon.  --Brandon Dilbeck 01:53, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That shouldn't really be a problem, an article might come under the purview of several WikiProjects. Point here is— What Pokémon do we define as fictional cats? Meowth, Persian, Skitty, Delcatty, Mew and Mewtwo sound OK (at least to me), but Espeon, Raikou and Electabuzz? Everything except the first four seems POV to me. Cheers, The Raven's Apprentice (Talk|Contribs) 03:57, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not the point, but Espeon is much more cat-like in 3D. Highway Grammar Enforcer! 07:09, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Would they try and take some jurisdiction over those articles, or would we still be the ones overseeing them the most? THL 04:44, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Can't be too sure, depend on how active their Project is. They might leave us alone after tagging the articles, or they might try to exercise jurisdiction— in which case we might have to negotiate about whatever they want to change. But that, of course, is Highway's job. May the Mist prevail! --The Raven's Apprentice (Talk|Contribs) 05:48, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I hope they stay out of it. I doubt any of them have had to much experience with fire-breathing cats that could strangle them with their psychic powers. THL 05:54, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It looks like they just went through :Category:Fictional cats and added everything there. Which explains Electabuzz. -Amarkov babble 13:57, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But is Electabuzz a cat? --The Raven's Apprentice (Talk|Contribs) 13:58, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

text: It may be, but there is no reason to think it is, as such has never been said by an official source. I'm considering whether or not to just remove the tag from Raikou, since nobody knows if it is a cat or dog. -Amarkov babble 14:00, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I vote for removing it from Espeon, Electabuzz and Raikou. But we might as well wait and see what others have to say. --The Raven's Apprentice (Talk|Contribs) 14:05, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Espeon I'm neutral on, since it does look rather like a cat. But for Raikou and Electabuzz, I agree. No urgency, though, unless someone tries to rewrite the articles to better emphasize their cattiness. -Amarkov babble 14:13, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And of course, Sneasel, Weavile, Nyaruma, and Bunyatto (I think those're the names) are cat-like, with the last two especially so. I would convince the Wikiproject to include only the Pokemon that are actual cats instead of being merely catly. The problem with including Espeon or Sneasel is that they've the qualities of cats and other animals (foxes and weasels respectively). Which means, would Mankey be part of WikiProject Monkeys or WikiProject Pigs (assuming such projects exist)? Overall, just give the cat-lovers the verifiable cats: Meowth, Persian, Skitty, Delcatty, Nyaruma, and Bunyatto. Erik Jensen (I appreciate talk!) 16:03, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Espeon and the like are pretty much foxes. Entei and the like have been the butt of much debate outside of Wikipedia (and possibly in WP?). I don't forsee this cat thing being a problem at all, as long as they stay away from trying to make the articles as much about the Pokémon being a cat as it is about it being a Pokémon. Electabuzz?! Dang. THL 22:53, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It was my understanding that most projects would welcome assistance from outsiders. Also, there are a lot (and I mean a lot) of fictional cats, none of which had been previously marked as being under the scope of any project. In response to the whoever it was above, no project can take "jurisdiction" over an article. And, yes, I did tag every article included in any of the cats categories. The only purpose for indicating an article falls within the scope of any project is to assist in improving the article. Personally, it's all the same to me whether the tags are removed or not. However, considering our project does engage in assessment, which yours does not as of yet, I would have thought that you might have welcomed the potential help in determining the quality of the articles. But, of course, you all are free to do as you see fit. As the robotic alternate personality of the person who placed the tags, I can state unequivocally that there will be no attempt to restore any tags removed. B2T2 23:14, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think anyone has a problem with help from others, but the articles are about the Pokémon first, and everything else second. I'm not concerned about another project getting involved, but the focus of the article must stay on the fact that the subject is a Pokémon, and not on the subject's feline characteristics. As long as that is kept, I doubt there will be any problems. Of course, none of this is my decision anyway. If I'm sounding impersonal I'm sorry; that is my biggest problem when it comes to communicating over the internet. THL 23:31, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There's also the issue that with some of the things tagged, it's OR to call them cats, not to mention a POV violation. I removed it from Raikou because of that. -Amarkov babble 23:47, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed from Entei the category calling it a fictional lion and the fictional dog category from Suicune.  I went ahead and re-added the cat banner to the cat pages it was previously removed from, plus I added it to Mew and Mewtwo (I assume that there is enough evidence to call them cats).  I also went ahead and removed Electabuzz and Espeon from the fictional cats category altogether, and deleted the banner from their pages as well.  -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 00:15, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The point raised above about OR is a good one, although I don't know if it's ever been taken to this degree before. You all know the Pokémon characters much better than I do. If you as the experts in the field aren't certain whether these creatures are supposed to be felidae or felidae-type creatures or not, then there is serious question whether they fall within the jurisdiction of the cat project, which is specifically limited to felidae. If you think that they don't, then I would have no problems with the removal of the banner. However, I would also request that you remove the pages from the cat categories, to prevent any further confusion. B2T2 00:37, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed from the category all suspect Pokémon.  The only ones that should be classified as cats are Meowth, Persian, Mewtwo, Mew, Skitty, Delcatty, Nyaruma and Bunyatto.  Forgive me if I forgot any others.  -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 07:49, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

text:  It's just you.... -Zappernapper 05:24, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I doubt that their project will have anything to do with these pages.  They probably just want more articles within their scope.  -サターン・ヨッシー HAPPY HALLOWEEN 06:38, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cats 

message: I came across this, when I was doing some categorizing and found that it had the uncat tag on it: Billy Bleach. I added cats, then I noticed the edit history.. apparantly people think he is also Jimmy Zoppi?  Not sure if that's true or not. I wanted to give a heads up to anyone that wants to help. The article currently needs alot of work: it's one sentence long right now. RobJ1981 05:02, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Anyone care to help with a Pokemon voice actor stub?

message: User  has been adding some Pokémon to the Stage 2 Pokémon category (and maybe others), despite the Togepi Solution of avoiding these terms.  What's our stance?  What do we do??  --Brandon Dilbeck 01:13, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Keep reverting them and hope they'll get the point and scoot. Cheers, The Raven's Apprentice (Talk|Contribs) 06:26, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We also need to have the associated categories deleted, because that will also add to the confusion.  There is one for all four stages: baby, basic, stage 1 and stage 2.  -サターン・ヨッシー HAPPY HALLOWEEN 06:47, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Side Note: Was it all the cats?  I thought it was just speculated cats.  -サターン・ヨッシー HAPPY HALLOWEEN 08:18, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it was all cats. Oh well, I've asked Magikarp to join, so the Poké Ball's in the court. Highway Grammar Enforcer! 08:34, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I think we should keep them, I'd much prefer this to "List of Pokémon by Stage". What do others think? Highway Grammar Enforcer! 09:11, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The only problem with any list/category of stages is the Togepi evo line.  Are we going to have one group of Pokémon not added because of disputes?  -サターン・ヨッシー HAPPY HALLOWEEN 09:44, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't forget Manaphy/Fione, as well. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 09:49, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Togepi cannot breed.  I'm pretty certain that Togetic can (it would be the one time that I need my Pokémon guides that I don't have them with me).  As far as Manaphy, it seems that it can only breed with a Ditto and the result is a completely unrelated Pokémon.  I'm not sure if Fione breeds.  Also, the only Basic Pokémon that cannot breed besides the Legendaries are the Unown, and you can't produce an egg from a Ditto pair.  -サターン・ヨッシー HAPPY HALLOWEEN 10:10, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll check Serebii, but I think the assumptions above hold up, Manaphy and Fione would both be Basic Pokémon, because they can both breed with Ditto. Togepi can't breed, but its evolved forms can, so its a Baby Pokémon. Agreed? Highway Grammar Enforcer! 10:43, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In relation to Unown, I think it's the whole alphabet thing that stops them breeding. Highway Grammar Enforcer! 10:46, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As long as everyone can agree that Togepi is a baby, I'm fine with that.  I think this whole controversy started because of a certain user's questionable edits, anyway.  -サターン・ヨッシー HAPPY HALLOWEEN 11:18, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Multiple sources?  The only source I saw was the card game.  That can't be all that reliable since certain Stage 2 Pokémon can be played as basic and it has marked Pichu as both a Baby and Basic.  -サターン・ヨッシー HAPPY HALLOWEEN 11:57, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The card game is conflicting with game guides and such. As for reliability, the card game is equally as reliable as the video games; they're both primary sources. I still think it'd be best to ditch the stage notation entirely and deal with it only in the card game sections, as the video games and anime rarely if ever use the terms "Basic", "Stage 1," or "Stage 2."  - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 15:53, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Should we then get rid of it in all infoboxes, or just change the name of it to "TCG Stage"?  -サターン・ヨッシー HAPPY HALLOWEEN 16:12, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: thank-you... i've been waiting to see if someone else had that opinion, Stage X is so omnipresent i figured that a lot of people wanted it that way and there was some good reason.  But AMIB is right, and I say yes to SaturnYoshi, unless we change the infobox to say "TCG Stage". -Zappernapper 16:30, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

text: then is it also agreed that we should remover references to stages in the video games and anime sections? -Zappernapper 14:54, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pokémon stages 

message: Do you know how long that's been our other focus!? April! I think that's enough waffling done, we should jump at the chance of lowered vandalism to get some helpful work done. Right, for starters what need's done -
* Cite the whole Monsters in My Pocket thing
* Cite the translations issues from 
* Expand the TCG section
* Write about Pokémon Adventures and Dengeki Pikachu mangas in the media section
That's plenty for now, Highway Grammar Enforcer! 09:19, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have a fairly good Pokémon retrospective article in a copy of Nintendo Power I have laying around. Some of it is self-serving and useless, but there's lots of interesting where-did-this-idea-come-from stuff, like Shigeru Miyamoto pitching the idea of seven versions of the game, the president of 4Kids pitching "Catch 'em if you can" but then suggesting "Gotta catch 'em all" when the first one couldn't be trademarked, and FINALLY a source for the Satoshi and Shigeru thing. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 14:44, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''Other'' focus: [[Pokémon]] 

message: Does anyone have any information about this Pokémon?  The page was deleted several times for lack of content, and it currently has no article.  Surely this can't be the only Pokémon that no one knows nothing about...  -サターン・ヨッシー HAPPY HALLOWEEN 09:57, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bunyatto 

message: What the fuck is UU? A lot of articles mention it int the video games section. Is it some kind of competitive organization or strategy?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.128.111.221 (talk) 
:this should prolly be removed or an explanation given.  could you give some examples of which articles u saw this in? -Zappernapper 14:59, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah.  It's best to not write such acronyms in the text because people don't know what they mean!  I think this is especially true of strategy-based terms like STAB.  I don't even know what UU is, and I've been playing Pokémon for eight years!  --Brandon Dilbeck 15:03, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A quick search shows that the Misdreavus article contains the term UU, which means under-used (as in tournament play).  The article for Pupitar also has a lot of this junk in the video games section.  --Brandon Dilbeck 15:07, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

text: sigh... sometimes i feel like we need a task force to remove all that jargon.  i'll spend an hour cleaning up various pages.  A couple days later i'll be looking at another page and TA-DA, there's more of it. -Zappernapper 15:36, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ick.  The Misdreavus article also uses the term Perishtrapping to describe a moveset (using Mean Look to prevent the foe from escaping then Perish Song to fell it in three turns).  This kind of stuff should probably go too.  First of all, these types of terms are nothing official (and just plain cheesy sounding) and rather unprofessional in an encyclopedia.  Second, they are too "game-guidey" (describing game strategy) and we can't have that.  --Brandon Dilbeck 16:52, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, it's just that so many articles are like this.  Even the Shinou monsters couldn't escape.  -サターン・ヨッシー HAPPY HALLOWEEN 16:54, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  UU? 

message: RL stuff is starting to intervene. I'm going to come back and articulate my problems with the articles the way we're doing them a bit better. It was probably jumping the gun to suggest solutions before I had named all the problems. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 04:36, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I suppose it's a habit of mine to try and impose solutions right away to controversial issues that I'm involved with. Now, in about 20 kilobytes, this talk page will soon outsize the last archived page, so maybe when you come back this page should be archived again and you can start over from scratch. There needs to be a serious, level-headed discussion where people aren't gasping at each other due to the initial preposterousness of what you were bringing up here; there would be the best chance to look at the real issues and successfully amend them. Erik Jensen (I appreciate talk!) 01:01, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: I'm going to come back to this

message: On the anime subject, EP037 article Anime: Pocket Monster Problem Inspection Report was merged into the article on the episode that the report was based on, Electric Soldier Porygon. I plan to do more maintenance of articles. If any EP articles get deleted, EP037 stays because of its effect on the anime industry. TTV (MyTV|PolygonZ|Green Valley) 04:15, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  EP037 article merged 

message: It seems that it's become standard to list all Pokemon games as a reference for each Pokemon regardless if the Pokemon in question was in any of these games. I see this mainly with the Third Gen Pokemon and a few here and there with the Second Gen. I'll be fixing these as I see them, unless there is a reason I'm missing. -- Jelly Soup 07:04, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You could be referring to something in the original games, or an older Pokémon. That's why they're still there. Highway Grammar Enforcer! 08:08, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I guess I should have linked to an example. Compair the last two edits of Wailord. -- Jelly Soup 10:28, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: . Get AMIB on the job. Cheers, The Raven's Apprentice (Talk|Contribs) 12:50, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's been substed. Unless you have AWB then you've had it. :P But I think they're still useful, because it's a solid back when referring to key game concepts in older games, example being breeding. Existed in Ruby, implemented in Gold. Highway Grammar Enforcer! 16:16, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: Shin'ou has been renamed Sinnoh, per this. Highway Grammar Enforcer! 16:34, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: For now, the parameter is still going to be named "Shinounumber" in ; I'll rig it up so you can use the Sinnoh spelling sometime later today. Oh, and instead of just linking the front page of Serebii, we should probably mention that the spelling of Sinnoh is confirmed in Pokémon Ranger. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 18:30, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I know, I was just linking to back up the new info. Highway Grammar Enforcer! 18:49, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shin'ou name change 

message: Do we have an article on the Pokémon 10th Anniversary Tour? It was kind of like Journey Across America in the UK, with a lot of 6 year olds. I nearly stood on one thinking it was a spare stool. ;) Anyway, I don't think many of the goers are old enough to write an article about it, and I was wondering if it deserves one. Thoughts? Highway Ringo Starr! 10:25, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, definitely. It's certainly notable out of all events because the 10th Anniversary Tour ended up not just being in America. That, and if you can find solid citations, we can show that it disproved Pokémon was a dying fad. :x - Tetsuya-san (talk : contribs) 11:05, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

text: That said, does the American tour have an official site? The Australian one sure does. - Tetsuya-san (talk : contribs) 11:07, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It'll be a flash monstrosity. Highway Ringo Starr! 11:08, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ha! You said it. Silly Pokémon USA, you can't even get a page link from there. Ah well, we could just reference the whole site. So who wants to start? - Tetsuya-san (talk : contribs) 12:19, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps you should start? I wasn't exactly there. I did enjoy it though, I had barfed up the wall 6 hours earlier and stil went. Highway Ringo Starr! 12:25, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sure that contributed to the birth of a Grimer somewhere...  -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 16:21, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Haha. Anyway, I've started an article (Pokémon 10th Anniversary Tour) - feel free to find some citations and add more text. We urgently need to make it feel notable! - Tetsuya-san (talk : contribs) 00:10, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

text:  I went, i live near chicago, so i participated in the pokemon battle tourney... didn't win the trip to Tokyo, or NYC, damn.  there were actually a lot of teenagers, and a couple people around my age so my wife and i didn't feel like complete freaks, even got our free pics with Pikachu and Munchlax!  ok, ne'er mind. I don't know how notable it is, but i'm sure something should be written on it... would it be better if we grouped all things like this in an article called Pokémon events since there prolly won't be much to make them past stubs? -Zappernapper 16:24, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  10th Anniversary tour 

message: I am of the opinion that having focuses is very beneficial to our editing.  It causes many of us to gather around one article and make a lot of productive, rapid edits to it.  However, our current focus, Crawdaunt hasn't had very regular edits.  I figure that if we have 3 different species focuses at a time (and 3's not a lot—there's almost 500 Pokémon to get through) and stagger the time at which they're changed, we'll be sure to have plenty to do.  It just feels to me like Crawdaunt's gotten it a bit of a rut.  --Brandon Dilbeck 23:48, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. What articles would make good focuses? Highway Ringo Starr! 08:16, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Anorith and Dugtrio could benefit from some help.  --Brandon Dilbeck 14:46, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: i think we should try to focus on pokemon that are most likely to be searched for, than picking random stubs.  For example, Anorith is understandable as it's one of only a few fossil pokemon.  Dugtrio kinda falls into a sea of blah-ness.  It's no more special than all the other pokes like Spinda or Luvdisc (unless you want to consider that Luvdisc is the crappiest pokemon intended for real gameplay to date, IMO XD ).  I guess i'm saying we should focus on things like Mew and Mewtwo over Crawdaunt and Dugtrio.  Neither of these are GA and they should have been FA by now, there's enough info and they're more notable than starters IMHO.  If someone who isn't fanatical enough to spend hours on here editing pages were to search for a pokemon, these are prolly the most likely candidates.  It's fine if we have a random focus, like Miltank, because the other pokemon that person will look up will be their personal favorite.  But the more obvious ones, like legendaries, poke-event pokemon, starters need to be focused on first - they ALL need to be GAs before Cascoon is. -Zappernapper 16:17, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, good point.  Maybe we should work on more important articles rather than improving less important ones.  --Brandon Dilbeck 22:49, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Make Highway understand that. He's the one who's fanatically editing and/or coordinating the fanatical editing of random Pokémon articles to GA and FA status. Cheers, The Raven's Apprentice (Talk|Contribs) 06:06, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

text: in all fairness highway usually focuses on starter pokemon - which are the most wikilinked.  see, HC? i don't really hate you. -Zappernapper 18:17, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  More species focuses 

message: I found two different articles with the same content.  Pokémon Red and Blue and Pokémon Red, Blue and Green (Game Boy).  The latter seems to be forgotten about.  -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 06:02, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: thnx yoshi!  i speedy tagged it, looking at the history it would appear someone just created the page withh all the same content... perhaps they weren't aware of redirects? -Zappernapper 16:37, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just doing my part!  :)  -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 19:38, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mirror articles 

message: The proposal to merge all the cities and towns was brought up here, but I've no idea what became of it. I know for a fact the the Sinnoh cities were merged yesterday into Sinnoh#Cities and towns. Unless anyone has any objections, i'd recommend we get to work merging the rest of them, cutting down all the gameguides, Bulbapedia-style infoboxes and cruft. (Of course, why List of Kanto locations exists, retaining every little bit of cruft, while the articles on individual Kanto locations are still extant, is anyone's guess.) Cheers, The Raven's Apprentice (Talk|Contribs) 08:28, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cities and Towns 

message: I hate to bring up an old topic, but it seems that this conversation died without reaching a real conclusion.  Are we removing references to Stages from all the infoboxes (which would in turn mean deleating the categories: :Category:Baby Pokémon, :Category:Basic Pokémon, :Category:Stage 1 Pokémon and :Category:Stage 2 Pokémon), or are we leaving them in?  In the case of the latter, are we going to change the title to "TCG Stage", seeing as how the anime and games do not really use "Stage"?  If it is changed, then the Togepi line can have its Stages replaced (TCG only refers to Togepi as "Basic") and the categories can be filled.  This would finally eliminate any confusion over which Pokémon is what stage and bring this topic to a close.  As it stands now, it seems rather odd that the Togepi family is the only group without a Stage listing.  -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 09:14, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I recently had a little talk with , who had been adding Pokémon to Baby, Basic, Stage-1, and Stage-2 categories.  I recall that AMIB and Amarkov had been working on an adjustment to the species infoboxes so we could avoid these terms.  How are we doing on that project?  Are we good with implementing the additions to the articles?  Or do we want to continue using Baby, Basic, and the other terms despite the issue with Togepi?  --Brandon Dilbeck 23:00, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Mine is as good as it's going to be. I have no idea about his. -Amarkov blahedits 03:28, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pokémon Stages II