Talk:Illinois/Archive 1

message: Would anyone be interested in starting an Illinois WikiProject? This article looks like it needs major work and its usual sub-articles, (Government, History ect.) are nonexistant. I would like to start fixing them up and maybe in the future (long way away) make Illinois a featured article. I am currently involved in WikiProject Chicago and I know that there are people there who would join and contribute, but we would need members from downstate. Is anyone interested?
--Gpyoung talk 02:36, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd be interested in contributing, as most of my edits already do contribute to the overall content on Wikipedia about Illinois.  Though as a correction, we're not down staters :) We're from Central Illinois.  Downstate is Carbondale and below. Agriculture 02:56, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

text: It's even worse in State government where we refer to Cook and Downstate as the two possibilities, thus Waukegan and Rockford and even Aurora are Downstate to us. Tedernst 17:49, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

text: Downstate is always dependent upon where you are and where you are from - For Chicago, it's all 'downstate' even north of the city. For Springfield, it's the half of the state to the south. From Golconda, for example, it's all upstate. And count me in for the improvement of the Illinois wiki entries. Robovski 00:25, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject 

message: The article claims that there are three divisions in Illinois, but then identifies them as "Chicagoland", "central Illinois", and "southern Illinois".  This really leaves out the Quad Cities, Galena, and the Quincy area, none of which fit into any of these three divisions.  I think this section needs to be rewritten somewhat.  Kelly Martin 05:08, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Geography 

message: In the demographics section, there is a reference to American descent.  What the heck is that? Tedernst 17:32, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: i think it means people whose families have been in this country for so long that they don't identify with any one particular European country. 66.28.14.121 17:36, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Or, to those mathematically inclined, "100% American". (Apologies to Richard Armour). Wahkeenah 20:24, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Are we sure they didn't mean American Indian?--65.16.61.35 15:10, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  American descent? 

message: Hi, this is :io:user:mithridates from the Ido Wikipedia. I've been uploading city files translated from the English for our Wikipedia but I've noticed a lot of vandalism, POV comments and whatnot in a lot of the articles and have been cleaning them up a little bit when I come across them. One thing I've noticed that I'm not too sure about is an external link to sexual offenders in the city, all linked to the same site and divided up by region. Like this:
http://www.sexualoffenderslist.org/illinois/edgar/chrisman/
For the city of Chrisman. Often these links will be right at the top of the external links section or even the only link. I personally think that it doesn't belong there being too specific for a general article on a city but I also don't want to step on any toes. What do you think? These links are in a lot of other states as well and I'm uploading them in alphabetical order, and there are some 30-something states to go. Mithridates 18:01, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sexual offenders list 

message: Why is there a section entitled simply 'rogues'?  Does anybody else believe this to be appropriate, especially with no context?  And, in the interest of fairness, if the majority of you wikipedians out there think that it is, why is Dan Rostenkowski not on that list? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.122.95.110 (talk • contribs) . 2 November 2005
*It's a counterpoint to the Favorite Sons section. It could certainly be enlarged. It just seems like Illinois has more than its share of corrupt politicians (a redundancy, as Groucho Marx once noted). Feel free to add Rostenkowski and anyone else that seems fitting. Wahkeenah 17:51, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: There seems to be a consensus that it's a meaningless category--especially when Gacy and Capone don't make the cut.  So I deleted it. Rjensen 03:35, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What "consensus"? You, yourself, and one other guy? Gacy and Capone were criminals. They behaved as criminals do. Big deal. The ones in the list were supposed to be serving the public trust and betrayed it. Thus they are opposite from the Favorite Sons. I'm guessing you are unfamiliar with Illinois and its history. Wahkeenah 03:57, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What is a rogue anyway? dictionaries don't seem to help. no other state history has such a section as far as I can see.  To include people who were acquitted does not seem right.  The list is just junk history. Wiki is not in the business of deciding whether, say, Altgeld or Daley were "rogues". This is an encyclopeda and rests on the consensus of experts, and in this case, as Wahkeenah notes, there is no such consensus. Rjensen 04:12, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Look it up. Rogue. I can't write such a list for the other 49 states because I don't know them the way I know Illinois. Maybe you would prefer a more "encyclopedic" section title, like "Politicians who were indicted"? FYI, this is not an encyclopedia, it's nothing more than a pretentious weblog. Until they stop a-nones from freely updating it, it will remain so. Wahkeenah 05:14, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So who's a rogue? the dictionaries suggest something totally different than indicted officials.  People we don't like? It's a bad list. One was acquitted, one was never accused of anything, a third (Ryan) is not yet convicted . Walker was NOT convicted of anything connected with government. Rjensen 05:23, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I am done trying to explain it to you, non-Illinoisian, as it appears hopeless. Wahkeenah 06:21, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Rogues

message: Is it necessary to include a list of corrupt politicians, or for that matter a list of politicians in general, on the main Illinois page? The rogues list has appeared on this page before with no apparent consensus, I would suggest it be removed for the same reasons listed above. Maybe it belongs in an article about the Politics of Illinois, Illinois State Government or Illinois political corruption, but not in an article about the state of Illinois. --Dual Freq 23:39, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: it's a bad list--it has no historical perspective, and no meaning. It includes people who were not proven guilty of anything. Rjensen 23:46, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How long have you lived in Illinois? Answer that before you delete it again, son. Wahkeenah 00:30, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I do live in Illinois and have for 50 of my 53 years.  Although I see nothing wrong with an article on political corruption in Illinois, I too think that the list lacks context and is out of place in a general article on Illinois.  -- DS1953 talk 00:40, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

text: excellent points--and if you want some POV debate ask whether Mayor Harold Washington should be on the list (he spent a year in jail). Rjensen 01:14, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Then by all means add Harold to the list. It is not intended to be partisan. And it is timely, what with "Lyin' Ryan" having been convicted today. The last time it was reverted, you groused that Ryan was still on trial. Well, Ryan's history now. And state residency does have a bearing on it, because its history of "colorful" polticians is part and parcel of the state's personaility, something you would not know unless you lived here. Wahkeenah 01:22, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Your removal of Orville Hodge and Paul Powell just because they don't have separate articles betrays how little you know about the state. Wahkeenah 01:59, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I suggest Wahkeenah is being a little insulting by suggesting other editors know less than he does. He has not explained why he seems so knowledgeable about illegal activity in the state.  Hodge was never officially accused of anything. Rostenkowski's crimes were in Washington not Illinois. Rjensen 02:01, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

text: You all are decidedly lacking in a sense of humor and perspective. Keep in mind that Honest Abe Lincoln himself was significantly aided by good ol' backroom maneuvering. Wahkeenah 02:32, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's really a worthless list.  It shows no historical sensibility whatever (no scandals before 1950??), and personalized a serious issue involving corruption in the state, while ignoring the many debates on the issue. Junk it now or we'll just have to go to mediation. And no, Abe was not aided by any illegal activity whatever. Rjensen 02:34, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just scanning the article, I think there are too many lists on the page, period. This article should look more like Chicago, Illinois in terms of structure. While corruption is more than prevalent in the history of Illinois, it is far better addressed in prose, not as a list of convicted politicians.—Rob (talk) 02:38, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

text: You're onto something. The article is probably way too long. There could be separate articles for the lengthy list of famous persons and infamous persons both. As far as the infamous, I intended it as a starting point, not an exhaustive list. And I never said Honest Abe was aided by any illegal activity. Wahkeenah 10:54, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: List of Politicians

message: I've added the Illinois article to the "raise article to the level of a Featured Article" section of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Illinois todo list. Skimming the featured article list, there doesn't appear to be any other states on this list to compare to, except Rhode Island which is listed as a good article. Abraham Lincoln is an example of a featured article. --Dual Freq 23:27, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The criteria should be people who spent a significant part of their lives in Illinois, starting with their first career activity. In a few cases people who left right after college might be included (Reagan was a student leader in college for example.) A reasonable list can't be much longer than 100 names, and there is no room for people who built their fame elksewhere. [Likewise I would say Florida should not list famous people who retired there after their careers were over.] The list is weighted to minor celebrities of the present day, unfortunately--leaving out Jane Addams for example or george Halas.  Rjensen 00:01, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

text: What about the politicians listed in there? For example, the State US senators are listed on this page 3 times. But, I suppose it's POV or something like that to remove some of them, but not all. I certainly wouldn't remove Lincoln or the former Pres/VPs. --Dual Freq 23:21, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Featured Article

message: I don't want to re-revert this thing all night, but the Associated Press is probably an acceptable source for wikipedia. The author of the story makes mention of the dead voter thing along with other cases of Illinois corruption. I was simply converting the list discussed earlier to a paragraph and expanding that to include the item. The dead voter thing might go, but in order to referenc the shoebox part the ref has to stay. --Dual Freq 03:18, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Dead voters

message: Popular newspaper stories are of dubious reliability for historical material in Wiki. (I am not talking about very recent events when newspapers are essential.)  Especially when dealing with issues that have been very well covered by scholarly books. For example, the Paul Powell shoebox story--Wiki can't report discredited old stories when there is a solid scholarly book on the subject: Paul Powell of Illinois: A Lifelong Democrat by Robert E. Hartley; Southern Illinois University Press, 1999. Powell was accused of not reporting income to IRS, but he was a businessman with millions of investments, plus he received hundreds of thousands a year in campaign funds that he doled out to party groups in every county. (all legal at the time.) On corruption in Chicago there must be 50 solid books.  Rjensen 03:28, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I can read a book summary page too. I saw it Monday night after the other editor added the information. I'm not going to pretend to have read the book because I looked at the executive summary, and I'm wagering that you haven't read it either. The book was written by Robert E. Hartley, a journalist from 1962 to 1979, not unlike the AP author from the above reference. I only moved the reference along with the list because it went along with the other corruption section. I added the dead voter material because it goes with corruption and was mentioned in the same article. Delete the whole paragraph for all I care, but as you say, corruption in Illinois politics has been extensive, I was simply trying to touch on a few examples. Feel free to assist in the efforts to make this article higher quality and possibly reach the Wikipedia:Featured Articles list. --Dual Freq 03:47, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: yes believe it or not I did read the book (it's online at Questia,com).  He did not spend a few hours, he spent 20 years working on the story, and the university press had it reviewed by two panels of scholars. Hartley interviewed people who were there and looked at mountains of documents.  To quote him: "Through the years of research into Powell, I leaned heavily on professional researchers, archivists, and keepers of files. I believe they all became fascinated with the subject, and this interest increased their value to the project. In no particular order, they are researchers Claire Martin, who scoured the papers of Powell for me, and Peggy Turk Sinko, my right arm in Chicago; Cheryl Schnirring and Mary Michals of the Illinois State Historical Library; Tom Wood, oral history archivist at the University of Illinois at Springfield; Judy Travelstead, librarian at the Southern Illinoisan in Carbondale; Stephen Kerber, archivist of Southern Illinois University at Edwardsville; and the staffs of the St. Louis Post- Dispatch library and the St. Louis Mercantile Library." He has 10 pages of bibliography--including the biographies he wrote of Gov Thompson and sen Percy. As for corruption stories, Wiki needs better sources than a popular newspaper account based on hearsay. Rjensen 05:19, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  newspaper stories--dubious value 

message: I've been looking at the items in the references section in an attempt to attach them to the material they are citing. However, it appears that they were added in bulk and not related to any particular information in the article. Since it would be nice if this article could reach FA status, I'd like to find out if those are just general purpose recommended reading list for the state of if they are meant to cite something in the article. Wikipedia:Citing sources seems to indicate adding a Further reading section for recommended reading lists. If there is no problem, I'm moving all of the refs not pointing to a specific part of the article to the Further reading section. Thanks for helping. --Dual Freq 23:28, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I added most of the references, according to Wiki guidelines to search out the best available sources. It's a bad idea to have two separate bibliographies. Rjensen 23:52, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

text: It's almost like we need some one who's written a book about the history of Illinois to help make this a Featured Article. I'd like for this article to cite its sources, but your list of Illinois history references isn't specifically used in the actual article. I don't want to remove the list and Wikipedia:Citing sources seems to indicate that it should be in a further reading section. That's why I moved those. --Dual Freq 01:32, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Do we  really need someone who's written a history of the state? Try, The History of Illinois (2002) by Richard Jensen. Rjensen 12:17, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Yes, I noticed when I moved the refs and added ISBN's, just before I added the slightly sarcastic remark above. I didn't want to 'out' you, just let you know that I knew. You really should put that and a link to your other website on your user page. Thanks for the help with the intro and everything else you did to help make this a Good Article, maybe a featured article, someday. --Dual Freq 14:45, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: thanks  :) Rjensen 14:49, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: References vs Further reading

message: let's name 100 famous Illinois people pre 1940 (from WPA Guide Book): Addams, Jane;  Ade, Geroge;  Adler, Dankmar;  Algren, Nelson;  Altgeld, Gov. John Peter;  Armour, Philip D., ;  Louis Armstrong;  Rev. Edward Beecher;  Mrs Bradley [Peoria];  Bryan, William J ?;  Burnham, Daniel H., ;  Cannon, Speaker Joe ;  Cermak, Anton;  Coughlin, "Bath House John;  Darrow, Clarence;  Dewey, John;  Douglas, Stephen;  Dunne, Finley Peter;  Du Sable, Jean Baptiste;  Edwards, Gov. Ninian;  James T. Farrell;  Theodore Dreiser;  Eugene Field;  Marshall Field I ;  Marshall Field III;  Ford, Gov. Thomas;  John T. Frederick;  Gage, Lyman C., ;  Grant, Ulysses (?);  Frank Gunsaulus;  Harper, William Rainey;  Harrison, Carter I;  Harrison, Carter II;  G. P. A. Healy. ;  Hecht, Ben;  Holabird, William, ;  Hood, Raymond;  Horner, Gov. Henry;  Hutchins, Robert Maynard;  Ingersoll, Robert;  Insull Samuel, ;  Jenney, William Le Baron;  Keeley, Dr. Leslie;  Kelley, Florence;  Kinzie, John,;  Knox, Col. Frank;  Kohlsaat, Herman;  La Salle, Robert René Cavelier, Sieur de;  Lawson, Victor;  Lewis, Lloyd, ;  Lincoln, Abe;  Lincoln, Mary Todd;  Lincoln, Robert;  Lindsay, Vachel;  Logan, John A., ;  Lovejoy, Elijah P., ;  Lowden, Gov Frank;  McCormick, Cyrus Hall,;  McCormick, Col. Robert R., ;  Mann, James Robert;  Masters, Edgar Lee,;  Medill, Joseph, ;  Merriam, Charles E., ;  Monroe, Harriet;  Moody, Dwight L;  William Vaughn Moody;  Mundelein, George Cardinal;  Newberry, Walter Loomis, ;  William Butler Ogden;  Oglesby, Gov. Richard J;  Palmer, John M., ;  Palmer, Potter, ;  Parker, Col. Francis W.;  Peck, John Mason;  Pullman, George M., ;  Rainey, Henry T., ;  Root, John;  Rosenwald, Julius;  Rusk Dr. Benjamin,;  Rutledge, Ann, ;  Edward Wyllis Scripps ;  Sears, Richard W., ;  Small, Albion W., ;  Smith, Joseph,;  Spalding, Bishop;  Stagg, Amos Alonzo, ;  Starr, Ellen Gates,;  Shiel, Bishop;  Melville E. Stone ;  Stevenson, Adlai I;  Swift, Gustavus F., ;  Taylor, Graham,;  Thomas, Theodore;  Turner, Jonathan;  Ward, A. Montgomery;  Wentworth, "Long John," ;  Willard, Frances E;  Wright, Frank Lloyd;  Yates, Gov. Richard, I;  Yates, Gov. Richard, II. Rjensen 01:05, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How do we deal with people like Frank Lloyd Wright, who are claimed by Wisconsin or other states? --Dual Freq 01:36, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Actually, I'd like to put the entire list of famous people into a separate page called List of famous people from Illinois (or something like that) and just link there listing less than 10 on this page or maybe listing none. I see no real need to list every single person who spent >5 minutes on TV or are famous in someone's POV on this page which is supposed to be about the State of Illinois. --Dual Freq 01:40, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks like somebody beat me to it. List of people from Illinois. --Dual Freq 02:19, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  100 Names of Famous Illinois People pre 1940 

message: I need a lead section that is one or two paragraphs long. That chunk taken from the geography section seemed appropriate for that purpose. I'd like to put it back in the lead unless, you have something better. --Dual Freq 23:52, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: People can see the map. The into should say something more meaningful. I'll try something. Rjensen 23:58, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Lead section

message: I've made some changes to this article, mostly layout and trimming / conversion of lists. I've also started a todo list at the top of the talk page that lays out some of the things this article needs. Right now I'm pretty much tapped out on Illinois ideas, so I think I will step back from the article for a while. I'll still be watching to see if there is anything I can do for the page. Rhode Island and West Virginia are listed as Wikipedia:Good articles, certainly this page is similar in quality to those. With more work this page can be a featured article. Anyone out there feel free to help out and any recommendations are appreciated. Anyone think it's ready for Peer review or Good article status? --Dual Freq 01:03, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Future of the article

message: This article is close to being a Good Article. There were several grammatical inaccuracies, which I will correct presently. My major criticisms, however, are that the lead doesn't really summarize the article very well, and that the "History" section contains nothing about the twentieth century. Also, the statement, "As much as any state it is a microcosm of the nation" is not directly borne out by the body of the article. NatusRoma | Talk 22:20, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure what to do with the intro. I think it's a pretty good description of the state, maybe the article doesn't completely explain that, but I'm not sure how to fix it. Do you have any additional ideas? I've also added a 20th century section. It's more like a list, but I don't want to turn this article into a History of Illinois article, I just want to provide a summary. --Dual Freq 11:24, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The history section is good enough now. I'm not sure about the lead. Looking around articles on other states, the best one I see is California. However, this article has improved, and is very close to GA status. NatusRoma | Talk 21:40, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Texas, Rhode Island and others have the origin of the name in the intro, I was thinking that this article would do the same. Other than that, thanks for the rewrite. --Dual Freq 23:36, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think the name issue belongs in the summary, which should focus on the big issues. Put it under geography. Rjensen 11:26, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Nearly every other state puts the naming in the lead paragraph. Maybe it's poorly written, but it seems like it should be there to be similar to the other state pages. --Dual Freq 11:29, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll get to work changing the other states! :)  Seriously why should it be there.  I think 50% of users only read the opening, so the more beef the better. Rjensen 11:33, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Failed GA nomination

message: I reverted because the new sports table was more difficult to read than the previous list. The recreation information is more appropriate in that area and should be expanded, not removed. The postage stamp messes up the format of the economy section. I would prefer to minimize the sports list to only the most important, (no minor league teams) and point to a List of Illinois sports teams (or similar name) article. --Dual Freq 21:33, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Is it just me or does anyone else dislike the sports team table. I'm about two clicks away from dumping the entire thing to another page. It's pretty much an eyesore to the Illinois page, and it's more difficult to read than the previous version, which was grouped better by sport. Again, as stated above. I suggest removing the entire list pointing to a list page and listing only Major league Baseball, football and basketball. --Dual Freq 22:16, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have to agree, I don’t like the Professional sports teams table. I think a paragraph on the major sport teams in Illinois and a page with a list of sports teams would be the best course of action. SenorAnderson 05:50, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I've already removed it once and it was readded. I think its something the Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. states want to have. However, that page says it's optional to follow their format. I'm for removing it and replacing it with a see also or more info template pointing to the list as well as a nice paragraph summarizing the major pro teams of the state. However, I must recuse myself from writing that paragraph, since I know absolutely nothing about pro sports in Illinois. --Dual Freq 11:31, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I created a new page called List of professional sports teams in Illinois and copied the list there. If someone would write a compelling paragraph to replace the table, I think it would be safe to delete it. I could make an attempt, but I'm not sure that would be wise. --Dual Freq 22:24, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Chicago, Illinois#Sports, looks like there are 4 or 5 decent paragraphs in the Chicago article. Might be a place to start. --Dual Freq 22:43, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

text: That is a good start. I want to help but I am studying for finals. SenorAnderson 02:54, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sports Table

message: Can Illinois be pronounced ill-ih-nwa? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.188.172.165 (talk • contribs) 
:Can California be pronounced Kal-ih-forn-eye-ay? --Dual Freq 13:34, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Pronunciation

message: I have submitted for a peer review, the results can be viewed at: Wikipedia:Peer review/Illinois/archive2. One of the primary complaints seems to be that the current article is heavy on lists. I'd like to trim the famous person list down to only historically significant Illinois residents, maybe a list under 10 names. It would be better if someone could prose-ify the list and get rid of it totally. My initial thoughts were that the current politicians were not necessary in the list, especially the state senators, they are already listed twice on the page. I'm open to suggestions, but it seems the lists need to be trimmed down, I'd like to start with the famous person list. Ideas? --Dual Freq 05:08, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just a viewpoint, but lists contain useful information. By all means, the main article should be a overview of important subjects, but the lists could easily be moved to sub-articles and linked from the main article. Prominent examples should still be cited, but in the sub-articles the lists can be as comprehensive as the editors wish. Robovski 09:25, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Peer review

message: says they are copyrighted post 1979, I suggest replacing it with a PD image, unless the article is going to discuss the stamp, it should go. Dual Freq 16:06, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't realize the stamp was integral to the Illinois article, and per the peer review it was pointed out that we should have a fair use rationale to keep it. Please add a rationale to :Image:Wiki illinois.jpg. --Dual Freq 16:09, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: doneRjensen 16:51, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia:Image_description_page#Fair_use_rationale says that a user should sign the fair use rationale. I have updated the rationale to fall within the guidelines on that page, maybe you would like to sign the fair use rationale so that someone can come back and ask you to clarify it in the future if necessary. Thanks. --Dual Freq 17:08, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Stamp

message: Are there any other anonymous folks from Houston that want to add POV "elite" tags to the University of Chicago? Maybe we need a photo of an elite downstate college there instead. The Texas article is awaiting your thoughtful edits. --Dual Freq 21:22, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: College Section

message: There is currently a discussion going on the Michigan Talk page about the potential US-Centric bias of the terminology Midwest in an article versus using a different geographical description. Illinois has been mentioned as an example page and  it would be nice to get other view points on this discussion since a consenus will probably have influence on this article. Agne 16:58, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems fairly well stated to me. It says: "located in the Midwest region of the United States of America." No mistake as to country it is talking about. It links to a lengthy article fully explaining the term. There is a prominent map just to its right in case anyone is confused. If anyone wants to learn about the US there is no better way than to learn the terms used here. No need to alter the intro of this page. Should we question the Nebraska folks about their usage of Great Plains? --Dual Freq 02:42, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Midwest in Intro: RfC on [[Talk:Michigan]]

message: that its actuly illegal to speak english in the state?--Cody6 02:36, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe that most of the people who were arrested in the state in recent years spoke English. Rjensen 03:34, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Stupidest thing I have ever heard. That would effectively turn the state into the world's largest population of criminals-at-large. Give your brain a chance. --72.34.9.231 21:35, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

text: That might be a dumblaws dot com / urban legend thing. Show me the link to the Illinois Compiled Statutes (ILCS) and I'll believe it. Laws are public info, so you should be able to find it if it's real. --Dual Freq 23:31, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I concur with Dual Freq. --Coolcaesar 04:54, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  is it true 

message: I recently changed the Chi skyline to a newer photo, one that is also a Wikipedia Featured Picture, and has a free license.  During a subsequent edit to recover lost text, the photo was changed back (and it was not part of the missing section, it was deliberately and specifically reverted).  If there is a compelling reason to use the lower quality photo, please post so before I change again.  Thanks!--Bridgecross 02:35, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chicago skyline question 

message: The Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. states format has been updated to include a new Sports section, that covers collegiate sports, amateur sports, and non-team sports (such as hunting and fishing).  Please feel free to add this new heading, and supply information about sports in Illinois.  Please see South_carolina#Sports_in_South_Carolina as an example. NorCalHistory 16:15, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New ''Sports'' section added to updated [[Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. states]] format  

message: As evidenced by the World's busiest airport article, that title is hotly contested and has many categories, worse than world's tallest building. Cargo passengers, arrivals and departures, enplanments. Airports.org shows O'Hare behind by around 5 million passengers for 2006, and number 2 for 2005.  It seems better to just say one of the busiest airports, since there really is no single airport that can claim the title uncontested. As for Moline,  CY2005 US Primary Airport Enplanements shows Moline 3rd in State and 127 US, there is no need to make a list of airports here, when there is a perfectly fine list linked to. --Dual Freq 12:14, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Busiest airport

message: I really suspect that Chicagoland is definitely NOT a Geographical Region.  It is not defined or confined by physical characteristics.  -Finko
:Do you mean (whoever you are) that it's not a geological region? While that's certainly true, it is definitely a geographical region. Hey, don't take my word for it: look up the terms! Physical characteristics defining the region would include population density, commute patterns, density of high-traffic roadways, and cost-of-living. Of course, there's no border along which you can draw a definite line, but that is also true of Mount Everest and not-Mount Everest.L Glidewell 02:56, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: For what it's worth, you two are discussion physical geography - patterns and regions of geology, landforms, rivers, etc, and human geography - population, employment, commuting, cost-of-living, human-built features likes roads, etc. There are lots of other kinds of geography that can be used to define regions, linked to on those pages. That's all, just sharing some geophilia. Pfly 17:14, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Geography and this article as a whole

message: There is some dispute about the history of the word Illiniwek, as you can see from that page and its talk section. I suggest that both possibilities (the Algonquian meaning and the Ojibwa meaning) be listed in this section. See Illinois State Museum Society. L Glidewell 19:35, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Etymology

message: I just edited the section to reflect the fact the fact that two African-American Senators were elected by Mississippi during Reconstruction. I also provided a citation with a link. For some reason, the citation is messed up and is showing the full URL for the link (as of right now, it's footnote 26). I'm a fairly new user, but I thought I'd figured out how to cite refs, and did so successfully with another article. Anyway, I just ask that whoever fixes it stop by my talk page and tell me what I did wrong. Thanks. L Glidewell 03:16, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Politics

message: I'm tempted to remove the last sentence of the second paragraph of this article.  The way it reads, it comes across that the writer thinks that blacks leaving the cotton fields to move to Chicago helped the US war effort by developing jazz. Could someone clean that up? 65.80.244.202 03:39, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jazz & the the American Arsenal in WWII