Talk:Hardcore gamers

message: Did some rewriting; sectioned; toned down some of the negative opinions. Hopefully others can fill in sections such as the 'games' and 'esoteric trends' better than I can. Al001 15:40, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Rewriting

message: A gamer is a gamer, regardless of skill. You may not like it, but it's the truth. This is nothing more than an insult disguised as a Wikipedia article.
168.26.254.115 (talk) 23:08, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Purpose of article

message: This article survived an Articles for Deletion debate. The discussion can be found here. -Splashtalk 17:49, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Articles for Deletion debate

message: This entire section is relatively pointless. The two genres most casually played are puzzles and any/all shooters, be it Centipede, 1942, or any FPS. I can understand considering people who've been jacking off to CS since it came out hardcore gamers, in the sense that they are hardcore CS players and CS is a game, but no one who plays Halo is hardcore. Likewise, no one who plays WoW is hardcore, nor Zelda, nor UT, nor FF. MGS I can agree with to a degree, as some people beat the fucking things on European Extreme, but, really, a hardcore gamer isn't defined by the games they play (unless they religiously play one of the aforementioned non-hardcore games, which defines them as a complete casual gamer). If having a list of games is a must, sleeper games are a better mention, such as one of the Katamari games, Shadow of the Colossus, or even Fear Effect. Even more effective would be mentioning somebody who actually played and completed shitty games like ET (shitty movie too, randomly), or any of the Driver games, or Mario is Missing/Mario's Time Machine. Yet more effective would be mentioning people who do speed runs on any of these games. There, by the way, is another indication of a hardcore gamer: someone who does speed runs. So, yeah, that's my various cents.
I agree with you to a point but a hardcore gamer must nort restict himself/herself to a single genre of games. A person cannot spend 18 hours on a FF game and call himself a hardcore gamer cause he is not willing to expand. A harcore gamer must have at least 5 genres that he or she enjoys playing. By the way puzzle games are not exactly popular as say role playing games and platformers but it is still a popular genre but consider this you play Katamari for dayson end as well as FEAR and nothing else taht is not a classification of gamer. On the topic of spped runs you see it is heavily debated cause the point of speed run is to ofcourse get the sortest time on a certai stage posible but at the cost of not actually playing the game properly. A majority of speed runs avoid enemies at all cost and occasion throw a grenade or two. Granted it takes a degree of skill to complete speed runs but they are not exactly playing the game instead just runnng away till the end of the level.
I have to argue that puzzle games are the most popular. Think about it, GameBoy was a hit because of Tetris. Tetris is a puzzle game, and there are still new releases that sell well. That's the best example on consoles. Then you have the internet. I read some article a few years back that pointed out a surge of women gamers, due in large part to puzzle games (with minor happenings in being accepted as equally hardcore in shooters and the like). In the present time, you have old people who just got computers and the internet, and, when they have nothing else to email and no more news to read, what do they do? They play games, be it pogo or Yahoo! Games or some secret old person game community site. What is the most played game of all time, definitely on computer and possibly out of all physical games? Solitaire (the Klondike variation, which most people believe is the only version that exists). Solitaire is destinctly a puzzle game, as you have to manipulate things to work towards a solution. This isn't to say they are the best, but they are the most popular.
As for speed runs, natural and not frame-by-frame emulated perfections, you have to know a game and love a game enough to want to even attempt them. People will spend years playing a game, learning every secret, memorizing every level layout and enemy pattern, just so they are able to get a really good, relatively quick speed run. Glitch-runs can be more indicative of hardcore gamers, since, if the glitch(es) aren't well-known or published whatsoever, they have to find things out themselves. Anyway, I think the point is still moot, since most of the games listed reek of casuality (Halo, Unreal, GTA though it also fits in the second) or rely on fans of the series as the (near) sole-buyers (MGS, Final Fantasy, Zelda). Then, Warcraft/WOW/Starcraft are games that, if you like one, you like all of them. Some people just jack off to Blizzard. Quake has always been relatively lame, Counter-Strike is nothing special these days, and I haven't played Battlefield 2. One huge question I have is: Why the fuck is F.E.A.R. on the list at all? It only just came out.
Here's another thing, why not have survival horror/psychological games on the list? A lot of people scare easy, hence the reason not everyone plays Resident Evil (in addition to the crappy camera/controls) or Silent Hill (in addition to not liking the need to vomit). People who can play through one of these, not to mention the entire series, deserve the mention of a hardcore game by default. And, like I said before, MGS is a game for hardcore games because, despite reliance on long-running fans for sales, there are people who beat the fuckin' things on European Extreme. Come on! That's basically the biggest challenge any game can offer.
Anyway, I'm done rambling.
Dudewhiterussian 05:36, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "Games" Section

message: until someone can put some sources or back it up at all, I'm taking it out.  this isn't the place for original research, or in this case talking off the top of your head.  Oreo man 22:45, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  stereotype 

message: This article is full of weasel words: "Many people who consider themselves to be hardcore gamers claim to be well-adjusted", etc.
As I am not an expert on this subject, I'm not willing to go through them myself, especially since the majority of reputable sources on this topic are opinion pieces and not factual. CNash 18:18, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Weasel words 

message: Would hardcore gamers get all the console systems from various game console eras?
Flashn00b 02:25, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not necessarily. A hardcore gamer can also be a fan of just one company's system. Zomic_13 02:26, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Purchasing Playstation, Nintendo, and XBox consoles? 

message: Does this really warrant an article?  This is a subset of 'gamers' and should be mentioned in that article.  The term 'hardcore' is extremely subjective and not strictly defined, so saying that someone is a 'hardcore' game has different connotations to different people.  Does hardcore mean that they play on only the hardest difficulties?  Do they play with some sort of handicapped involved that should give them a disadvantage?  Are they just really good at what games they play?  Is someone who gets all the achievements for a game considered 'hardcore'?  The fact that everyone does not answer these questions the same means that the word is not defined well enough to have a NPOV article.  Opinions on the matter?  And I mean opinions on whether the article should be deleted, not on your definition of hardcore.  Fllmtlchcb (talk) 23:07, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another Proposal for Deletion 

message: *Against There's no reason to merge this or the several others tagged for merge by a new editor who created a new almost entirely WP:OR based article that most likely will be deleted. --Marty Goldberg (talk) 18:44, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge Proposal 

message: This entire article is wrong, wrong, wrong. "Core gamers" is a marketing term that refers to the main body of gaming customers. This is the term used by companies like Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft. The general audience has gotten this massively confused with "Hardcore gamers", a term that refers to gamers who play very difficult genres (e.g. Japanese Shoot'em Ups) or otherwise demonstrate "hardcore" tendencies such as completionism, competitive play, and/or speed trials. It's bad enough that the average person on the street gets the two confused without Wikipedia propagating the same confusion. If you're going to edit this article, please do your research and get it right. --Jbanes (talk) 03:00, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Or alternatively, you can go bold and do it yourself. --Muhandes (talk) 08:38, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  FWIW, it's on my list. This, MVC, and about half-dozen other articles in strong need of attention. I just wanted to post here in a weak attempt to stem the bleeding while I try to find some time. --Jbanes (talk) 02:16, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Another comment