Talk:Feliformia

message: : If you would, please read Talk:Viverridae#Hyenas.3F and reply/advise as you would. This article not only contradicts this one but also contradicts itself with regard to the feliform family tree.  Are hyenas viverrids or not?  Expert input needed! Chrisrus (talk) 04:11, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradiction 

message: Most feliformia are described as being arboreal, having retractile or semi-retractile claws, and digitigrade, while most caniformia as being terrestrial, non-retractile claws, and being plantigrade. This is most definitely not true, not even as generalizations. 
1) Plantigrade vs digitigrade: Most feliformia and caniformia are plantigrade, because only cats (41 species) and hyenas (4 species) among feliforms, and canids (about 35 species) among caniforms are digitigrade.
The viverrids (30 species), herpestids (32 species),the african palm civet (1 species),Asian linsangs(2 species) and euplerids (9 species excluding the fossa) except the fossa (1 species) are all plantigrade. The fossa is semi-plantigrade. Thus 74 species of feliforms are plantigrade and only 41 are digitigrade and 1 is semiplantigrade. Nearly twice as many feliform species are plantigrade as are digitigrade. Of the 115 species of feliforms 74 species (64%) nearly two-thirds are plantigrade. So, neither feliformia or caniformia are typically digitigrade.
2) Retractile claws: Very few caniform species have retractile or semiretractile claws (only the martens, fisher, red panda, and 1 of the ringtails). However, among the feliforms, the hyenas (4 species) and the herpestids (32 species) also have non-retractile claws. This is a minority, but it is certainly enough species (36 species out of 114, 32% or nearly a third of the total number of species) to make a generalization that many feliforms have retractile claws incomplete and misleading.
3) Terrestrial vs arboreal: Among the feliforms, the hyenas( 4 species) and herpestids (32 species) are terrestrial. Again, that is 32% (nearly a third) of all feliform species. However, the bigger problem is that many (about half) caniforms are actually arboreal (see below).
Among the caniforms, only most of the canids (about 35 species) are terrestrial. All of the procyonids (14 species) are arboreal. The red panda (ailurid) is arboreal. Most of the bears (ursids) are arboreal - the sun, spectacled, Asiatic, and American black bears, and smaller brown bears and adult female brown bears (5 of 8 species), all regularly forage in and climb up trees. Giant pandas and sloth bears do climb, although less frequently. Only the polar bear (which lives in an environment without trees) and large brown bears (due to great size) do not regularly climb trees. Many of the mustelids (59 species) are also arboreal, spending most of their lives hunting and nesting in them, especially the martens (7 species), fisher, and the tayra. Weasels regularly climb trees to raid bird nests and can be regular raiders of such nests (for example, see the Stoat wikiarticle). Even some of the larger mustelids (such as the wolverine) do climb to forage (including raiding human caches of food strung up in trees) and to escape larger predators such as wolves. Among the caniformia, only the remaining mustelids (otters and badgers) and mephitids (skunks, 12 species) are mostly terrestrial (although skunks do climb trees sometimes). The pinnipeds are marine mammals which live in water and are thus neither terrestrial (land-based) nor arboreal. Thus, among the caniforms, the procyonids (14 species), red panda (1 species), most of the ursids (6 of 8 species), and some of the mustelids (let's say about half of the 59 species), and 3 canids (the raccoon dog and the 2 species of Urocyon gray fox) are all arboreal. Only almost all of the canids (32 remaining species),2 bears, some of the mustelids (half of 59 species), and the mephitids (12 species) are terrestrial. 
Thus out of the caniforms, about half of the species are arboreal. When about half the species of caniforms are arboreal, a generalization claiming that most caniforms are terrestrial is most definitely false and should not removed.
All in all, none of the statements about the feliformia and caniformia are true, not even as generalizations. They should be removed.
72.80.193.105 (talk) 13:21, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Feliformia and Caniformia