Talk:Grid energy storage

message: I'd rather not see this article merged into Energy storage.
: Energy storage includes small batteries (i.e. nanobatteries). And large-scale energy storage is much more than grid storage (it can be used locally). --Nopetro (talk) 13:19, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Unsigned Comment

message: The Economics section seems a bit of a mess. Only the first section really discuss the economics of grid storage. 
* The first subsection "load leveling" - which is effectively covering similar or related content as the "benefits of energy storage section". 
* Second section - "Energy demand management" - seems completely out of place (and irrelevant for this page)
* Third section - "portability" - also doesn't seem to be relevant for "grid" energy storage (see addition comments below in "Portabilty section not relevant to grid" section"
* Forth section - not really clear how "reliability" fits in the economics section (also maybe be better in benefit section).
Interested to hear feedback on this - otherwise will edit away!
MickCaine (talk) 13:52, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Economics section?

message: Do we really need to have a synopsis of every energy storage technology here? Why not just a list with links to the main page of the technologies (literally every one has a main page). It is not clear that having the brief synopsis' here actually assists the article (which is actually about the application of storage to the grid).. The energy storage page also has synopsis of the technologies - in my view, it doesn't need to be repeated here.  
A table with technology, storage type (e.g. chemical, mechanical, kinetic, gravitational etc) might be suitable?
MickCaine (talk) 14:04, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Forms of Energy Storage 

message: Mrand  -  In deleting my edits, you have once more made it appear that Pumped Storage systems can make up for lost generating capacity on windless days. The items now cite a Chinese system with 2% of national capacity and world systems with 3% of world capacity. But this is deliberate nonsense, for these systems only generate for 5 or 6 hours. What matters is kwh (or total demand over time) and if electrical energy was required to cover two days without wind (assuming all renewable energy supply) then those figures quoted would have to be reduced tenfold. In other words, the Chinese system can only cover 0.2% of demand over 2 days - much less than the article makes out.
These paragraphs need to be changed, to reflect the truth. Will you let me do it, without deleting everything again?
Narwhal-tooth 11:11, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Inaccurate information

message: I've always understood "grid energy storage" to mean using the grid like a battery, so that you can firm up undependable energy sources like wind and solar.  The article spends most of its time talking about storage devices connected to a grid - which is the opposite end of the way I've understood the term. --Wtshymanski 23:02, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, this article needs some serious editing. The content is pretty good, and interesting, but is mostly not about grid energy storage (which is a misnomer, of course, but common).--Gregalton 16:20, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: What is the article about?

message: I agree with everything said above.  I had difficulty understanding the "grid energy storage" description.  Rewrote in bullet format with an opening sentence that explicitly explains GES essentially word-by-word.  Mostly rearranged and slightly rephrased prior text, then made more explicit the "time-of-day pricing" that makes GES useful. Scimike 14:08, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rewrite of opening 

message: The article has a lot of mistakes. I fixed the most glaring ones. Most of the rest are about how the grid works and how different energy sources are used. Also, some areas need rewriting, especially the first section (the first section is everything before the "Economics of energy storage"). I think that part of the problem is that people write about how things are in their region. However, the electrical industry varies greatly geographically in the U.S., let alone other countries. For example, in much of the East, coal makes up the majority of the electricity generated, while in much of the West, there are no coal power plants at all. In the Middle East, oil can make up a large percentage of the electricity generated (77% in Egypt in 1999), while the U.S. gets very little of its electricity from oil (about 3%). Natural gas might be used primarily for peaking power in the Eastern U.S. (the article previously said that natural gas plants are peaking plants), but it is used for base load, intermediate (AKA load following) and peaking power in the West. This variation does not mean that an article cannot be written. It just means that the article must be written carefully by knowledgeable people, preferably in collaboration. -- Kjkolb 16:42, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article needs a lot of work 

message: Grid energy storage is when you take electrical energy from the grid, store it, then re-inject it to the grid later. The methods of doing this, or forms, of energy storage are ways in which to accomplish the storing and then re-release of the energy. If a fuel is left unused and can be kept for a rainy day because of the use of replenishable energy sources, that's a positive thing for humanity, but its NOT grid energy storage because it was never converted to electrical energy in the first place. To call fuel conservation grid energy storage is like saying that reducing is a way of recycling - both are measures to be taken to increase efficiency, but they are different.Wikichesterdit (talk) 21:44, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure if A there is a requirement to convert to electricity and B if this requirement is lacking in this example, lets say for example, at the moment depleted gas reservoirs and salt domes are filled with natural gas as grid energy storage, pumped as gas to the enduser, and used there for work, heating and maybe to make electricity, the same goes for hydrogen. Mion (talk) 22:11, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Since this topic refers to storage of energy on the electrical grid, the energy must be injected to the grid before it can be stored. If we were talking about some kind of chemical fuel based "grid" where the fuel is distributed using pipelines or vehicles, I could see your point. In your example, the energy in the natural gas bypassed the grid completely by going straight to the end user. Aside from that, the idea of conserving fuel (which constitutes stored energy) by getting energy from renewables is a different beast than the spirit of grid energy storage, which is as a buffer to smooth out rapid fluctuations of supply and demand so that expensive-to-run, fuel-based plants neednt be cycled on and off, up and down to meet the fickle demands of electricity consumers. The energy supplied by renewables is also subject to random rise and fall when the sky clouds over or the wind fluctuates, and thus does not help to solve the problem of how fuel-based plants need to be cycled up and down as a response to the demand for electricity.Wikichesterdit (talk) 10:51, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Its still about the storage of energy on the electrical grid, but as typical energy losses in natural gas transmission systems range from 1-2%. Energy losses on a large electrical system range from 5-8%, the provided drawing is correct for one setup, the other setup shows natural gas pipelines to homes with micro combined heat and power and then from the homes the surplus electricity is fed back into the grid.I think the intro needs some rewriting. Mion (talk) 11:36, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems it is well covered as smart grid which enables the mass feed in of electricity at the home site is covered in a section of electrical power grid as mentioned in the intro.Mion (talk) 15:40, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fuel Conservation is Not Grid Energy Storage 

message: Is it just me, or is this table complete gibberish? From a moment's glance it looks like most of the table data is plainly wrong. I'm tempted to WP:BOLDly fix it, but if anyone can explain what its supposed to mean, I'd be happy to stand aside.--R.S. Peale (talk) 03:00, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Technology comparison for Grid-Level applications

message: There is some text under the hydrogen topic that needs to be lifted up to a separate section, as it is relevant to all forms of grid energy storage.
:"The price ratio between purchase and sale of electricity must be at least proportional to the efficiency in order for the system to be economic."  
Some discussion under the Economics heading does quite well but I think it deserves its own sub-heading.  Any thoughts?--Graham Proud (talk) 01:01, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Round Trip Efficiency

message: I heard that the Lithium–titanate battery is also being considered for use in grid energy storage. Perhaps worthy to mention it in article ?
KVDP (talk) 16:48, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Electrochemical batteries

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thread_title:  Blacklisted Links Found on the Main Page 

message: Please mention the Concrete Gravity Trains used for grid energy storage. See, for example: http://interestingengineering.com/concrete-gravity-trains-may-solve-energy-storage-problem/  This can enhance the existing section on Gravitational potential energy storage with solid masses. Thanks! --Lbeaumont (talk) 18:23, 20 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please mention the Concrete Gravity Trains used for grid energy storage 

message: Siemens build a new pilot for storing heat in lava stones.
Hot air will be blown like a hair-dryer and stored into a rock bed.
source: https://bizz-energy.com/stein_stromspeicher_von_siemens_gamesa_soll_2019_ans_netz  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.13.41.220 (talk) 09:01, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  what about ETES? 

message: Please somebody who knows about this - we need a section on the history and evolution of the latest technology of energy storage,  because many people don't even realise how much the technology has progressed and what difference this can make to the viability of green energy for our societies. 
What is the latest on storing wind and solar and what are the implications for greening the energy supply?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.252.104.138 (talk) 09:09, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Importance of this topic for the planet  

message: The article does not mention:
* how much grid-energy storage you need, in % of the energy production, in a country
* what the share (%) of non-constant grid connected energy forms (i.e. vehicle-to-grid) can be to still be reliable and effective as a whole
--Genetics4good (talk) 15:04, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: @Genetics4good I don't think that's a question that can generally be answered. There's just too many factors involved. One of the main factors being how much variance can be had in the given generators that region or country has. As an example, heating steam with coal, gas, oil, or nuclear, generally takes hours or even days to shutdown or power up. While they can be ramped up or slowed down with a reasonable speed, it is usually these kinds of power stations that cause the need for energy storage. Hydro-electric has the best shutdown/power-on cycle time, at roughly 90 seconds to go from zero to 100%. And of course the new technologies of wind and solar are now nearly always needing a storage medium, as their best generation times are at odds with peak demand. Gallomimia (talk) 22:59, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually batteries have millisecond on-off times. There's also storage in the spin of generators and Synchronous condensers, which are even faster, but have very low capacity. GliderMaven (talk) 02:31, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: More data needed

message: "The AC-to-AC efficiency of hydrogen storage has been shown to be on the order of 20 to 45%, which imposes economic constraints."
What does AC-to AC mean... alternating current to alternating current? Is this the best measure of "efficiency" and can be it applied to other types of storage across the article? S C Cheese (talk) 16:04, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hydrogen