Talk:Flag of Poland/Archive 1

message: I expanded the article a tad, I hope the historical section is clear now. I also corrected the civil and state ensign thingy, as the flag with coat of arms is something quite different. Sure, it is used for merchant marine, but also has other uses. Halibutt 12:28, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

message: Who has decided that the Polish flag is some kind of grey colour?  I've never seen this before, and it surely cannot be genuine.  It looks like the effects of a flag which has been left out to hang for years with the weather wearing it out.  It looks ugly and out of place, I hope people see the light and change it back.  JohnJohnJohnJohntt 14:27, 01 December 2006
:I'm afraid to confess that the answer to your question is: the bloody Polish government did, passing the relevant law in 1980, last updated in 2005 (see Reference 2. in the text of Flag of Poland).
:Oh, the color is called white all right; it's just that the enclosed quantitative specification tones down the brightness in CIELab color space to Y=82 (perfect white ("safe") would be 100).  See for yourself -- Reference 2. in text, then scroll down to the bottom of the legislation.  You will see there 4 links each marked wzór ("example") -- these are the addenda (załącznik means addendum) to the textual part of the legislation.  The first depicts addendum no. 1: the Coat of Arms, the second wzór link depicts addendum no. 2: the National Colors (that's the one you want: ); the remaining two wzór links comprise addendum no. 3, with the the third wzór link - the state flag of the Polish Republic (i.e., the red/white without the Coat of Arms in the middle of the white stripe), and the fourth wzór link - the state flag with the Coat of Arms.  I will also translate for you one telling sentence of the law: 
:*"Article 6. Section 1. "The state flag of the Polish Republic is a cloth rectangle in the colors of the Republic of Poland, hoisted on a mast."
:*(in Polish: Art 6. 1. Flagą państwową Rzeczypospolitej Polskiej jest prostokątny płat tkaniny o barwach Rzeczypospolitej Polskiej, umieszczony na maszcie.).
:So, what you're seeing on your screen in Flag of Poland is not the flag of Poland, but only it's faithful depiction.  For the real thing, wave something appropriate hoisted on a stick.
:The national colors are mercifully described in a table with numbers, so they are intelligible as presented to anglophones (with the hand-holding clarification that "biała" means (feminine) "white" and "czerwona" means (feminine) "red", as "barwa" is a feminine-gendered word for hue/color). Regards, --Mareklug talk 18:43, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grey? 

message: Are you absolutely sure it's the right colour? It seems different from what is actually used on flags... //Halibutt 19:07, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I took the official coordinates in the CIE 1976 color space from the statute and rendered them into RGB using this online color calculator. The colors I used for the illustrations are what I got. Perhaps I should try other calculators to be sure. Anyway, as I wrote in the article (based on a NIK report), the legal specifications are rarely followed in practice. And downloading images from government websites doesn't guarantee to get the correct shades at all. The President's and the Prime Minister's websites, for instance, show national colors as red #FF0000 and white #FFFFFF since this was the easiest way for the webmasters. And just for laughs, see this! Kpalion 19:30, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: (Note: Since the above 4 images were included here, the last 3 have been updated on Wikimedia Commons to the corrected, official colors, without a rosy tinge to the white. The red is also more accurate now, then it was in the originals. --Mareklug talk 18:57, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

text: AFAIK, the SVG files are correct. If you believe they are wrong, take it up with :commons:Commons:WikiProject Flags, but don't revert to the PNG files; SVG is superior and should be used. Please discuss at the Commons, okay? —Nightstallion (?) 12:38, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, I put a request on the commons to convert those images to SVG (I don't have the right software to do it myself). Hopefully, someone will do this soon. I still doubt if we should sacrifice correct information for file format, but I agree to wait a little until correct SVG images of Polish national symbols are available. Kpalion 15:06, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The issue of colors is currently under discussion in :pl:Dyskusja:Flaga Polski. The bottom half is surely as close as we can get to correct colors. Most images on the web that use #FF0000, are in fact incorrect. The main issue is the top part, with obvious concerns that it should be white, not slightly gray, however there is no definite result of the discussion yet. --Wanted 02:17, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

text: No one in Poland use pink-red or grey-red flag. All officials use clearly white-red flag. Please don't make controversy and hasty decissions. --KridPL 11:19, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with KridPL. And any agreement reached on pl.wikipedia is not authoritative here.--RedMC 12:08, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But at least on pl.wikipedia, people are trying to reason this issue out and arrive at a consensus based on reason, not force the issue dogmatically, as you are doing.  And, you are in danger of breaking the WP:3RR with your reverts on Poland and elsewhere. --Mareklug talk 13:01, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would really like to be allowed to reason, but you are telling me that I should instead wait for what someone else, somewhere else, in another language is discussing, aren't you?--RedMC 13:50, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No. Please see my reply on your talk page. In short, discuss and participate! --Mareklug talk 18:43, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Colors 

message: Flag of Poland consists of only two bands of colour, white over red (or more accurately, crimson).  The 
Coat of arms of Poland is not a part of the Flag of Poland.  It does appear however on polish marine banners.
Consequently, the image posted (at the time of this entry) as "Flag of Poland", is not it!
Because of the specific purpose of the marine banner, its use for other purposes was prohibited.
Observation: Polish emigrants and esp. their offspring born abroad often use the Polish marine banner in error as the Flag of Poland.  One possible reason for this might have been their misunderstanding of the prohibition of the use of the marine banner for other displays.  They thought that it was frivolously imposed by the communist regime, hence should be opposed.
MC
:MC, please read what the Polish law (Ustawa o godle, barwach i hymnie Rzeczypospolitej Polskiej oraz o pieczęciach państwowych) says about the flag with coat of arms. It is used as a merchant ensign (bandera handlowa), but it also has other, restricted uses. Kpalion 19:30, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flag with CoA 

message: The problem is Poland doesn't have NATIONAL symbols, colors or flag- only STATE (in Polish państwowe, not narodowe). Kowalmistrz 19:02, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Could you please precise why this is a problem? And what you think is the difference between national and state symbols? — Kpalion(talk) 21:24, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Kowalmistrz answered (in Polish) on my talk page that the difference between national and state symbols is "fundamental" without any further explanation. — Kpalion(talk) 12:38, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  We have a problem