Talk:Primerica

message: I am inquiring about issues with the multi-level marketing (MLM) claim made on Wikipedia about Primerica, particularly the reliability of the sources used.
Assessing the Wikipedia page’s information, one reference for the MLM claim is one piece in Business Insider, from 2010, by Vincent (Vince) Veneziani, who had worked at Everdeen Private Capital, per LinkedIn (among other companies, like Hedgeye Risk Management and Golden Archer Investments). Everdeen Private Capital appears to have a team at multiple levels and markets financial products—and its website is just a WordPress page (even with the WP icon still there in a Google search of it). For his article, Veneziani’s sources primarily include online forums. He seems to imply that having multiple levels, in whatever form, is “multi-level marketing.” But Everdeen Private Capital also has senior representatives, still in tiered positions relative to newer representatives. Realistically, the piece on Business Insider, and some like it on Forbes, are essentially opinion pieces, not bound to facts or evidence. They can be written with a slant, without an objective point of view. Given Veneziani’s competing business interests in the financial services industry, his piece does not seem reliable to source the MLM claim about Primerica.
See [10] Veneziani, Vince (April 1, 2010). “Meet Primerica, The New Wall Street IPO That’s Really A Multi-Level Marketing Scheme.” Business Insider. https://www.businessinsider.com/citigroup-primerica-ipo-2010-4
Veneziani published an "Ask Me Anything" Reddit post nine years ago discussing his past experiences in the financial services industry at the following link, as archived: https://web.archive.org/web/20230124042432/http://web.archive.org/screenshot/https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/265zjj/im_an_author_journalist_entrepreneur_and_trader.
Cited on Wikipedia, a 2012 source for the MLM claim about Primerica comes from Ryan Chittum, in the Columbia Journalism Review. The only spot in his piece mentioning Primerica says, “1988: Weill buys Primerica, a sketchy multilevel-marketing (pyramid style) firm that sells term life insurance.” Chittum’s source for this claim is a May 1, 1994 piece by Michael Quint, in The New York Times, titled “Mischief Under the Travelers Umbrella.” There is not any deeper elaboration by Chittum; he simply references a 1994 article in his 2012 “listicle.”
See [11] Chittum, Ryan (March 9, 2012). “200 Years of Citi: An alternate history.” Columbia Journalism Review. Retrieved November 7, 2018.
https://archives.cjr.org/the_audit/an_alternate_history_of_citigr.php
Another more recent source is a 2016 essay, by Michelle Celarier, in Slate, on Herbalife and MLMs. The only sentence mentioning Primerica says, “Timothy Muris, who was head of the FTC during the Bush era, along with J. Howard Beales, the director of the FTC’s Bureau of Consumer Protection during the same period, lobbied for the exclusion as representatives for Primerica Financial, an MLM that sells insurance.” Celarier neither provides any source for referring to Primerica as an MLM nor elaborates on this claim.
See [12] Celarier, Michelle (May 9, 2016). “Herbalife’s Endgame.” Slate. Retrieved September 24, 2017. https://slate.com/business/2016/05/the-government-is-finally-closing-in-on-herbalife-herbalife-will-fight-back-hard.html 
The other cited reference on Wikipedia happens to be a self-published book—“Community Press,” not any recognized publisher—titled Primerica MLM: Making Network Marketing Simple by Pam Hogan, published on December 2, 2010. Hogan alleges that she, in fact, had been involved with various MLMs—since high school. Her book can only be purchased and read in Kindle and has not shown paperback options via Amazon. Apparently, Hogan has written multiple books, all self-published in 2010, with similar titles. These include Arbonne MLM: Network Marketing You Can Wrap Your Brain Around (December 2, 2010), Nu Skin MLM: New Ways of Doing Network Marketing Right (December 2, 2010), Reliv MLM: Making Money Through Network Marketing (December 2, 2010), and about thirteen other similarly titled works. In each, she alleges long-term experience in various MLMs and provides “guides” to readers. A further search under Hogan’s author profile shows these works. The descriptions for the books appear to be quite similar, except the name of the company in question is changed. This source also does not seem reliable, given that anybody can self-publish and Hogan does not seem reputable. 
See [45] Primerica MLM: Making Network Marketing Simple. www.amazon.com. Community Press. December 2, 2010. Retrieved March 4, 2021.
https://www.amazon.com/Primerica-MLM-Making-Network-Marketing-ebook
In response to the MLM claim about Primerica, sources like Investor’s Business Daily and Business Wire indicate the contrary. According to Investor’s Business Daily, as of 2022, Primerica was ranked number one in Most Trusted Life Insurance Companies. It has been ranked above well-known companies, which also happen not to be MLMs. In addition, it ranked number three in Most Trusted Financial Companies, above State Farm at 21, Progressive at 23, and GEICO at 24. The latter companies did not even rank on life insurance; they only ranked on auto and home, as seen in the list.
See Morey Stettner (August 29, 2022). “Trusted Insurers Deliver On Their Promises.” Investor’s Business Daily.
https://www.investors.com/news/top-insurance-companies-customer-trust-2022 
See IBD Staff (August 29, 2022). “IBD’s 25 Most Trusted Financial Companies.” Investor’s Business Daily. https://www.investors.com/news/most-trusted-financial-companies-top-25-list-2022 
Business Wire reports “Primerica Ranked on Fortune 1000® List for Third Consecutive Year,” as of 2022. It reads:
“The Fortune 1000® is the annual ranking by Fortune Magazine of the 1,000 largest U.S. public companies, listed in order of reported revenue. With revenues of approximately $2.7 billion in fiscal year 2021, Primerica ranks number 895 in the most recent list, up from number 980 in 2020 when the company debuted the list.”
The “About Primerica, Inc.” section on Business Wire reads as follows:
“Primerica, Inc., headquartered in Duluth, GA, is a leading provider of financial services to middle-income households in North America. Independent licensed representatives educate Primerica clients about how to better prepare for a more secure financial future by assessing their needs and providing appropriate solutions through term life insurance, which we underwrite, and mutual funds, annuities and other financial products, which we distribute primarily on behalf of third parties. We insured over 5.7 million lives and had over 2.7 million client investment accounts on December 31, 2021. Primerica, through its insurance company subsidiaries, was the #2 issuer of Term Life insurance coverage in the United States and Canada in 2021. Primerica stock is included in the S&P MidCap 400 and the Russell 1000 stock indices and is traded on The New York Stock Exchange under the symbol ‘PRI.’”
See (June 20, 2022). “Primerica Ranked on Fortune 1000® List for Third Consecutive Year.” Business Wire. https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20220620005488/en 
The above description from Business Wire would be far more objective than using the descriptor “multi-level marketing," as seen on Wikipedia. Writing “Primerica has been described as a multi-level marketing company,” and categorizing it as such using the sources assessed, presents multiple problems. It sells what seems to be speculation by disputable sources as objective and factual. Importantly, it ultimately serves to misrepresent not only the company but also its representatives, doing harm in the form of damage to reputation and finance. Thus, even if not deliberate, this misrepresentation can be described as defamation.
Reliable sources, from reputable publications on business and finance, and the accompanying rankings, as noted, are public information and can be easily verified. Neither the recent source at Investor’s Business Daily nor the one at Business Wire appears in the references for the Wikipedia page on Primerica. Instead, there appears to be a pointed focus on the company allegedly being an MLM.
An MLM would not be publicly traded on the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE) or ranked alongside—and, importantly, above—State Farm, Progressive, and GEICO. Nor would an MLM be ranked on the Fortune 1000®, a list that features a number of legitimate companies like Walmart, Amazon, and Apple—not MLMs. MLMs do not require state and federal licensing or, regarding the financial services industry, comply with the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority (FINRA). MLMs do not require adherence to the state and federal regulations that extend to an entire industry and the companies within it. An MLM would not fulfill the above, especially requiring state and federal licensing. These facts undermine the MLM claim about Primerica since, all things being considered, other companies would qualify as MLMs on this basis. Related examples would include State Farm, Progressive, and GEICO. Donovan Cleckley (talk) 05:07, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Lemonaka (talk) 01:45, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Change multi level marketing. Primerica is not an mlm 99.228.58.50 (talk) 02:45, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inquiry on the Multi-Level Marketing (MLM) Claim About Primerica 

message: * What I think should be changed:
The point on where it says that over 100,000 people work here and make 5 thousand dollars yearly
* Why it should be changed: 
This page is very outdated. My father works here and makes more than 5 thousand dollars a year and I think it should be updated 
* References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button): 
Comonbo (talk) 00:47, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Please include a reliable source. Please also note that Wikipedia doesn't publish original research. Thanks. Grayfell (talk) 01:28, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request edit on 16 February 2024 

message: I see you changed the first sentence of the lead and added to the infobox industry to state that Primerica is a multi-level marketing company. I’m hoping we can discuss these edits. I have a COI as an employee of Primerica.  I believe your new emphasis in the first sentence and infobox on MLM is not warranted under Wikipedia policy.
 
First, regarding the lead sentence, most of the press coverage about this public company describes them as financial services and insurance provider, and does not even mention multi-level marketing. Wikipedia should reflect the characterizations of the majority of secondary sources and not overweight a characterization that may have negative stereotypes.  WP:UNDUE. The lead should also reflect the body of the article and only a very small amount of the page is about MLM. WP:LEAD. 
 
The sources cited to support the use of MLM in the lead are    a passing mention of the company that makes no reference to multi-level marketing and appears to be based on reporting in an  article from 1994; a passing mention in an  article from 2017; and a  highly critical 15-year old Business Insider article.
 
By contrast, more recent Reliable Sources describe Primerica as an insurance and financial services company, without mention of MLM. These include
 
*A 2023  article from CBS News: “Health care costs are the top concern among middle-income American households for the first time since 2021, outpacing inflation, according to a national survey from financial service provider Primerica.”
 
*A 2022 article from Investors Business Daily: “Primerica (PRI) is a newcomer among the top three of IBD's most trusted life insurers category. It soared to the top of this year's survey with an overall score of 83.4 by sticking to its niche of selling term life insurance to Main Street USA.…The company also took the No. 3 ranking on IBD's overall list of the 25 Most Trusted Financial Companies.”
 
*A 2022  Wall Street Journal article: “Myrna Guerrero, a national sales director for Primerica Inc., one of the nation’s biggest sellers of term-life policies, said it was tragic last year to see young families hit with Covid-19 deaths.”
 
*A 2024  article from the Houston Chronicle: “The life insurance and financial products company posted revenue of $726.32 million in this period.”
 
*A 2023  article in the Atlanta Business Chronicle: “Successor named for longstanding Primerica CFO: A public metro Atlanta financial services company is planning for its future.
 
Second, in the Infobox,
Multi-level marketing is not an industry, it’s a marketing strategy. It does not appear in the Infoboxes of even companies that are the best known  in the world for MLM  Amway and Avon Products. It should be removed. 
Regarding the claim that Primerica is an MLM. This statement is simply not true. In reference to a legal document submitted by the company to the SEC, the document clearly states "Our distribution model, which is based on a traditional insurance agency model and borrows aspects from franchising and direct sales, is designed to reach and serve middle-income consumers efficiently by selling to customers through our sales representatives."  Statements such as MLM denote a negative public perception towards the company, its affiliates, and its sales force. This statement should be modified based on the company's true representation of its legal filings. Reference document - https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1475922/000156459018003151/pri-10k_20171231.htm#ITEM_1     — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:346:4300:15E0:C8BA:27A3:17E9:6228 (talk) 22:06, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia isn't a platform for promotion or advocacy. Please also carefully review Wikipedia:Conflict of interest, and Wikipedia:Paid-contribution disclosure. Grayfell (talk) 21:30, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  EDITS TO INFOBOX AND LEAD IN MARCH 2024 

message: * What I think should be changed: Primerica is not a MLM company. 
* Why it should be changed:  This is misrepresentation of a company started in 1977 and has been a A+ graded insurance company thanks to Primerica's customer service. This could also be legal grounds for defamation by misrepresenting Primerica with a false statement that negatively influences all readers of this false statement at the top of this article. 
* References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):  
ARichter907 (talk) 06:30, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: How are you related to the subject of the article? Shadow311 (talk) 13:27, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request edit on 12 April 2024 

message: Primerica is registered with the FTC as a general agency not an MLM. To be an MLM it would be registered with the FTC as so. 47.186.116.98 (talk) 01:23, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: Wikipedia doesn't publish original research. If you have a reliable source which explains this, please propose it here for discussion. Please note that in this case, an independent source would be much better. Grayfell (talk) 01:28, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 19 April 2024