Talk:Coladeira

message: Hi there,  Dj iET and TenIslands. I'm writing this to inform that I requested the protection of this article at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection. Please resolve the issue here on the talk page instead of undoing each other's edits, that clogs up the history logs and brings no benefit to the wiki. I see you've already started the discussion here, so please continue with it until you reach a consensual version. I'd help if I considered myself an authority in the matter, but unforunately my only knowledge of coladeira is from listening it, as I never studied the subject or read about its origins. Cheers, Waldir talk 15:33, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: To Ten Islands & Waldir: I agree me and Ten Islands are very opinionated.. lol but thats what makes learning fun and interesting.. I am still researching data for viable resources. i will refrain from undoing the article. Dj iET (talk) 16:44, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I had requested the user Dj iET to cite sources, something that he hasn’t done so far. I had already requested the protection of the article, but my request was denied. What else do you suggest? Cheers. Ten Islands (talk) 14:00, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I suggest that we wait for Dj iET to bring his sources. He said he would "refrain from undoing the article", but 1h later he performed an undo. I see you've just reverted him, Ten. According to the policy, Dj iET, you should not insert disputed information without a source. If you undo Ten's reversion again without providing any sources, I'll ask again that the article be protected. But I think we can all agree to not touch the article from now on until a consensus is reached here on this thread. --Waldir talk 19:29, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

text:  I have provided sources to verify my undo. Also Ten Islands if you remember correctly the original article you credited haitian music as well but then deleted it.. i provided two more sources to back it.. Also referring to your sources haitian music did have some influence as you expressed earlier. i think that deserves its credits as much as all other caribbean/south american influences mentioned.Dj iET (talk) 12:27, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protection 

message: Persistent vandalism?
Dear fellow
I am very curious to know what do you exactly mean by "offensive" and "vandalism"?
In addition I am forced to tell you the truth: You have no clue about the so-called zouk music. Therefore I invite you to read the zouk and zouk love articles; then review the COMPAS and the CADENCE RAMPA articles. I am sure you will have a change of heart and learn more about propaganda. 
If you haven't learned anything significant I will be pleased to provide you with some credible references on Haitian music. Do yourself a favor; please read these articles and do not forget to explain what you mean by offensive and vandalism here.
Looking forward to hearing from you
RegardsPintade (talk) 01:48, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: What do you mean?

message: The reasons why the word compas or konpa may not be known in Cape Verde is because of a technicality. If Zouk music had been viewed closely enough and its sources on its page have been read thoroughly, one would find that:
*"today, zouk is the French Antilles compas music, also called zouk-love."Peter Manuel, Musics of the Non-Western World, Chicago press University 1988 p74 
*"Whether it is incorrectly called zouk where French Antilles artists of Martinique and Guadeloupe have taken it or compas in places where Haitian artists have toured, this méringue style is very influential in the Caribbean, Africa, Cape Verde, Portugal, France, part of Canada, South and North America."Peter Manuel, Caribbean Music from Rumba to Reggae, 2nd edition, Temple University Phila 2006Gage Averill, A day for the Hunter, a day for the Pray, University of Chicago Press, 1997Peter Manuel, Musics of the Non-Western World, University Press 1988, p72-74
This would mean that Coladeira's third strand INDEED has compas rhythms. Also, another common error I've noticed are the lack of knowledge between the Caribbean merengues (yes, plural). There is both the merengue and the méringue that originate from the Hispaniola island (Haiti, and the Dominican Republic). Méringue usually does not carry the accordian, and uses much guitar instead and is played at a much slower beat. Now, compas (or konpa in Haitian Creole) is the modern méringue. So many times I have seen D.R.'s merengue get credit by the way of the French Antilles to African countries. Now, how is that possible? Well, merengue is also used as the English spelling for méringue hence the confusion here. Zouk is just another one of those confusions and many times it surprises people that Haitians have contributed in some way to their music when really they shouldn't. If this was a Cuban music topic, I doubt there would be an issue of outcry many of you are holding so dear, obviously striking personal chords. Ironically, Haiti's kontradans influenced many Cuban genres today, when Haitians worked on their plantations for three centuries, and we all know how much their music has supposedly influence many genres. The kontradans is found not only in their music but in countless music genres of the world today. Yet, I am still working on this masterpiece. 
Also, there is such a thing called compas-love or konpa-love, it's called zouk-love, which is only a romantic type compas! Nothing more. Clearly there is a lack of knowledge of its origins and its nobody's fault except for the fault that lies in the technicality. 
(Click here  to view compas-love's image; and here ; here also )
*"Zouk béton...is very rhythmic, with a fast and upbeat tempo. The latter style was made famous by Kassav', but has gradually lost its popularity..." So this new genre named Zouk (as it was short for), ditched the new sound and reverted back to kadans, which is a variant Haitian compas made popular by Haiti's Webert Sicot to the rest of the French Antilles. Zouk béton is not in Coladeira in the fast and upbeat tempo speed. So, it stops here. Cola-zouk etc. are just variants of compas which is being past as zouk in the rest of the French West Indies and in some of your cases, the rest of the world. On their part it was a savvy move to continue using compas/kadans under a different name of their own. It continued their fame which could have been shorter lived, or perhaps never elevated to the type of status if they hadn't stuck to what was known to them, and that was kadans/konpa/compas.
So my point here is simple; dig deeper in your research.
By the way, I too had disagreements with Pintade at first, but realized that he was correct on many occasions. We now have friendly debates, but are still intense (do not get me wrong) and in turn continue to open each others eyes. Now, I have gathered a lot of material that hopefully can clear up a lot of this uncertainty but the material is excessive and will take time; even for me. Pintade is actually doing his best to ward off vandalists that do not realize they are vandalizing. While some references are questionable, realize that all of these pages are not good articles yet and are still under construction. As I said before, I hope to help continue with the credible citations. Thanks for the time. Savvyjack23 (talk) 05:39, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comment 

message: I wish I had the time to assemble these materials. I am a very busy person beating into so many things and I am writing a book on "meringue" therefore I have prevented myself from giving too much of what is already in the book.
Thank you! you got it right
Pintade (talk) 11:49, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Thank you Sir! you made the point

message: I have tagged as dubious the claim that "There is a strong compas influence in Cape Verdean music." First off, the citation-- p. 95 of Peter Manuel Popular Musics of the Non-Western World-- doesn't actually mention compas. It states a strong "French Caribbean pop" influence on coladeira, but that could be any of a number of genres. Compas is not the only French Caribbean music. Furthermore, this section of Manuel's book is speaking specifically about coladeira, and yet the sentence it is being used to support is speaking about Cape Verdean music in general. Not all Cape Verdean music is coladeira. We have to be very careful that we are not distorting our sources to say more than they're actually saying. On a related note, Manuel spells it "coladera" and yet in the citation it had been corrected to "coladeira". It is usually a very bad idea to alter a quotation, even if you're just "fixing" an "obvious" error. A quotation should present the words as they were actually spoken and written. In the citation in question, I have changed it back to "coladera" and added a [sic] after it to convey that this is how Manuel wrote it.Tigercompanion25 (talk) 17:19, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regarding alleged compas influence on Cape Verdean music and quotations from Peter Manuel.