Talk:Narcotics Anonymous/Archive 1

message: Not sure if anyone else wants to have a go at tidying this recently contributed section up?  Also the "Worldwide Workshop" system is not discussed elsewhere in the article.  Without going too overboard on the NA service structure detail, it may be worth expanding on what they are and how regularly they are held etc.  thanks, --fonetikli 08:35, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Zonal Forums 

message: "A 5th edition was released in 1991, correcting these problems,"
This is not correct, the 5th failed to address any more than a minority of the problems with the 4th, and was never approved by any genuine fellowship process. The 5th has caused a good deal of controversy, just like the 4th, 3rd & 1st.
Tabby 04:33, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  5th edn 

message: It appears that the non-affiliated website, "NA Way of Life, unofficial N.A. literature" found at http://www.nawol.org/ has been suspended.  The explanation given there is simply the following: "Account for domain nawol.org has been suspended."  (I don't believe that copying this explanatory text here violates any copyright, so I've included it.)  I was unable to locate a new URL that points at the information described.  However, I didn't think it was prudent to remove the sub-heading and link altogether without further discussion or explanation regarding the status of the domain in question.
Bobthecorncob 11:17, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  External Links 

message: :Image:NaGroupLogo.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot 00:11, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fair use rationale for Image:NaGroupLogo.gif 

message: Regarding the statement "Cocaine Anonymous seeks to treat cocaine addiction specifically (although it is also a program of abstinence from all drugs, including alcohol and marijuana.)[19]", this is untrue. Check the cited website at ca.org and see that the CA program never mentions cocaine without adding the corollary "...and all other mind-altering substances." In reality, people join and use CA to recover from a myriad of addictions. Cocaine is a common thread, but even at there are members who have never had a cocaine problem. What differentiates CA from NA primarily is the former's use of the AA Big Book as its basic text. CA has never published it's own set of step instructions or commentary; it simply uses the AA text, whereas NA has all of its own literature and actively discourages or even prohibits the use of AA literature. 
--Ksteveh 21:35, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inaccuracies in references to Cocaine Anonymous 

message: :Image:Na books.PNG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 00:43, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fair use rationale for Image:Na books.PNG 

message: This section contains this bit about "bottoms":
"Addicts often first enter N.A. after reaching a "bottom" in their life, a point at which life feels completely unmanageable, characterized by "unemployability, dereliction and destruction" and centered around the getting and using and finding ways and means to get more drugs. Every N.A. member reaches a different bottom, which can be wherever the addict chooses to stop using. In practice, it is drug use and the extreme consequences associated with its abuse that bring most addicts to their bottom."
Does anybody have any citations for this?  Has a study been performed among NA newcomers to see if this statement is true?  If not, then it should go.Desoto10 (talk) 05:17, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nature of Addiction 

message: How many people do we need to get a consensus that the loss of $596000 by the 2007 WCNA is an internal controversy? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yobkcis (talk • contribs) 20:50, 13 June 2008  (UTC)
: Ok, first of all: Who says that it is an internal controversy? Is there a special board that meets and makes this decision? And if there is, then that needs to be cited as well as the monetary loss. Secondly, who put you in charge of editing the Wikipedia article to reflect this? Or have you simply taken it upon yourself? Perhaps you need to go back and read the 12 Traditions again. And lastly, if it officialy is an "internal" controversy, why are you airing here publicly? That transforms it from internal to external. Which answers your original question: Your fuss has now made it an external issue which forfits the issue's right to be labeled as an "internal controversy." Any other questions? J-Dog 20:59, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Removing that whole section is the best idea you've had yet. And by the way, your ability to overexagerate is really spectacular. ANY internet discussion site you say? Does that include ESPN Sportsnation? Are they discussing it in there? Perhaps it's a bigger issue in your head than it is in reality. I've done NA service for two years straight, my grandsponsor was at World and is a member of our region, has over 20 years, and is one of the most opinionated NA members that I've ever met. This issue has never been raised at our ASC, homegroup, or in casual conversation, and I see him at least twice a week. Are you catching my drift? Again, the bottom line is, you have no right to air NA issues in public, no matter what they are, nor who has done so before. It's not that you've offended me, it's that your motives are unhealthy to Wikipedia, NA as a whole, and weather you know it or not, yourself. So please do the responsible thing and let this issue die. J-Dog (talk) 21:40, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

text: But what's up with the use of "we" and "our?" We who? This isn't an NA site, it's Wikipedia. "We" doesn't belong here. There are tons of Wikipedia users that don't contribute to NA donations and funds, so "we" is incorrect. Honestly, I don't get the obsession over this whole topic anyway. I still haven't seen a philosophy that explains why it's notable. To me it's a user or two's personal agenda to voice their displeasure, which is inappropriate for Wikipedia. But, that's just me. The reason I keep reverting the edits is that I don't feel that they follow the editing guidlines at all. But again, that's just me; I don't proclaim to be the ultimate authority on Wiki guidlines. J-Dog (talk) 23:25, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  There was no "we" in the text, it just said "Recently a new controversy has arisen over the loss of $596000 by the 2007 World Convention of NA." It did give a self-published source, but that is acceptable in this circumstance. -- Scarpy (talk) 23:44, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, totally my bad. I overlooked the fact that the "we" was in the quote at the bottom of the page. Careless oversight on my part. Still not seing why it's notable...? J-Dog (talk) 00:05, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

text: Ya know what? I give up. You obviously have never heard of the word logic, because you sure as hell won't listen to any. If it makes you wake up in the morning feeling good about yourself making it public that a monetary error was made, then good for you. I know when I'm beat; I can't win an argument with a close-minded cement wall. Feel free to edit wahtever you like. I'll simply sit back and let the empty tin can rattle as loud as it likes. I just feel bad for you that you don't get the fact that NA is a non-profit organization. It's goal is NEVER to make money, therefore it can NEVER lose money on a single event or a million events. Maybe someday you'll grasp that reality. In the meantime, it must drive you nuts, and that just a damn shame. Good luck with all of that. Me, I'll go ahead and bow to the NA police cop that you think that you are, even though you can't follow simple guidlines, such as signing your posts with four tide marks. Insane. J-Dog (talk) 06:04, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  WCNA Controversy 

message: Can we block/protect this article for a bit until the hot-headed unregistered user(s) calm down and lose the desire to vandalize? It's getting really annoying policing their idiocy this often. J-Dog (talk) 03:14, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You'll want to put it here.  They usually won't grant those without a lot of vandalism, but it's worth a shot. -- Scarpy (talk) 16:12, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, cool. Thanks for the tip! J-Dog (talk) 16:25, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protect Please 

message: I think there is some confusion about the number of groups verses the number of members. For instance the sfna site says: "Today, NA members hold more than 50,000 meetings weekly in 130 countries." The Overeaters Anonymous article says it has more than 70,000 members. In this case we're comparing apples and oranges. I looked, but now can't find a citation for the 70,000 number in the OA article. But the OA website states: "Today, about 6,500 OA groups meet each week in over 75 countries. With OA divided into 10 regions worldwide and approximately 54,000 members worldwide, it helps thousands of compulsive eaters find new life in recovery." The main NA website, says: "In 2007, there are over 25,065 groups holding over 43,900 weekly meetings in 127 countries." I can't find anything that estimates the number of NA members. But NA has almost four times as many meetings, which puts it safely ahead of OA. -- Scarpy (talk) 01:00, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry. I must have read the sfna article too rapidly. Thanks for correcting. Student7 (talk) 11:54, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Size 

message: "Individuals from countless spiritual and religious backgrounds, as well as many atheists and agnostics, have developed a relationship with their own higher power."
I am not sure that an atheist can have a relationship with a higher power.  Not sure about agnostics, either.  If they believe in a higher power or any sort it seems as though they cannot be either an agnostic or an atheist.
Since there are no references for this claim, I am going to edit it.Desoto10 (talk) 00:31, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  It depends on what you mean by a "higher power." As I argued in the afd for the Higher Power article, it's not a scientific or well-defined concept as much as it is twelve-step lingo. When you're defining your own concept, it can mean almost whatever you'd like it to. So, atheist and agnostics certainly can believe in a Higher Power. That being said, "countless" and the related phraseology is very WP:PEACOCK. -- Scarpy (talk) 00:57, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

text: The Basic Text, 6th Edition, adds stories from an atheist and an agnostic.  Added reference (I'll find page number later). LotLE×talk 00:42, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spirituality 

message: This article does not have enough references to meet B-class standards.  WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:28, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Assessment 

message: The majority of references are broken, or incorrect links. I counted roughly 13 such links in references 1-10, and I know, without counting, that most of the subsequent references are also in need of repair. The Artist AKA Mr Anonymous (talk) 17:48, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link Rot 

message: Narcotics Anonymous was founded in 1950 by Daniel L. Carlsen in New York. You can view the Articles of Incorporation filed in January of 1951 at www.magshare.org/narchive. This official paperwork was filed 2 years before Jimmy K is claimed to have started Narcotics Anonymous. Although Jimmy K should certainly be praised for his great work, please give credit where credit is due.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.227.62.199 (talk) 04:24, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I've got nothing in that archive, besides it would hardly be a WP:RS, any chance you have a WP:RS for this claim?Coffeepusher (talk) 17:41, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  To be fair, there's a lot in this article that isn't cited, or is cited incorrectly. -- Scarpy (talk) 07:20, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Narcotics Anonymous Founded in 1951 

message: i once was a member of na my first meeting was in 1978 i was 17 years old i had some sucsess in the rooms i once had 10 years clean and many of times i would get 2 to 3 years or 5 to 6 months i have 8 days now the one thing about na is they promis only freedom from active addiction i have worked the steps 3 times through but got no rleife in my life every day for as long as i can remember i have wqanted to die thats the one thing i can be sure of i will face now i have 8 days clean and i do not think i will use agin and will die clean i have lost all the people in my life my son my girlfreind my sponser non of wich will have any thing to do with me i have bi polar disorder also and am trying a new med in hopes that it works in such that i can hang on i am weitting this to let who ever reads it no na was once my life but i can nolonger go i cant go there and see the sponser i have known for 40 years of my life or the girl who once loved me or pick up my 50th white key tag i just cant i have tried but i want to say na is great and i will die clean probley soon er than i would of hoped but clean never the less so this im so greatfull the one thing aa says that is more true  is there are such unfortints the have grave emotianl or meantel and there chancees are but if they have the cap-acity to be honest they to can recover yes that is true from addiction but maybee not from the living hell they face every day i use to be so fearfull of all of this but i now no the way out for me the road to peace so thank you guys for sll the years all we are is all we are  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.145.122.25 (talk) 14:30, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  there is a solution  

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Added  tag to http://www.na-chat.com/It_Works_NA.pdf
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.na-history.org/history_of_na_scott.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.na-history.org/NA_History_Chronology.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.na-history.org/Jimmy_k_20th_anniversary.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://nawol.org/2006_ch25
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.stepstudy.org/html/timeline/narcotics_anonymous.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.na-history.org/THE_FOUNDING_OF_NARCOTICS_ANONYMOUS.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.na-history.org/WSO_Incorporation_Papers_1977.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090304202508/http://www.ca.org:80/literature/allothermas.htm to http://www.ca.org/literature/allothermas.htm
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018) 

message: Looking you for a meeting Holly1225 (talk) 04:18, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Meeting search (on the NA website). Note: This notice appears on the NA website as of 26 April 2020: "The current health crisis has impacted our ability to post all of the meeting updates we are receiving. Please check Local NA Helplines & Websites for meeting updates that may be posted there."   - Mark D Worthen PsyD (talk) (I'm a man—traditional male pronouns are fine.) 19:37, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Na meetings 

message: I added the "no original research" banner to the article today. It states: "This article possibly contains original research. Please improve it by verifying the claims made and adding inline citations. Statements consisting only of original research should be removed."
This article, Narcotics Anonymous, is well-written, well-organized, and informative. I say that because I do not want anyone who has worked on this article to perceive the "no original research" banner as criticism of your contributions. ¶ At first blush, Wikipedia's "no original research" policy might seem counter-productive, and I admit it took me a while to grasp its importance. Therefore, I highly recommend reading up on the policy before reacting to the notice I posted.   - Mark D Worthen PsyD (talk) (I'm a man—traditional male pronouns are fine.) 20:22, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Original research 

message: This should be re-written by a third party. 76.20.51.28 (talk) 20:45, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article seems written by the organization which produces it. 

message: Yes ive been a member of n/a for a year. In early recovery i felt it necessary to attend the 2 na group meetings to keep me focussed on revovery. During that time i grew to lobe the fellowship and people of both groups. They had jomegroup meetings and each group expressed the importance of have a home. Nit to mention they were short handed so i joined both groups chairing meetings and giving tonthe newcomers what i was given through the program. Im secretary of one group. So i serve both groups very well probably a lil too much. But i do it willingly  to give back what i was given. There was a person that expessed concern about 2 group membership. To my knowlege as long as i keep anonymity if either group the only requirement is a desire to stop using and ti share to newcomers what uve been given through the program.  Is there any laws that state i cant serve 2 groups?  I serve equally . And i do it for my recovery and the recovery of others. Thank you 2603:6011:DD44:EF00:DC4A:3D83:5E85:9FB3 (talk) 12:04, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Having 2 home groups