Talk:Right-wing paramilitarism in Colombia

message: It previously referred to Don Castano as dying while in "custody" of FARC, after he was kidnapped..."Custody" implies that somebody was in legitimate control of some authorities/agents of the state. He was kidnapped by rebels/bandits/insurgents/guerillas. He died while in "captivity" not "custody." For example the Lindbergh baby did not die while in "custody" of his kidnapper, but rather while in "captivity." The use of the term "custody" is not a neutral term, it suggests the kidnappers had legitimate authority to abduct him.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:38C5:6BC0:AC01:C9AF:1EA7:439E (talk) 02:59, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: neutrality issue

message: User Juancarlos2004 please edit this article. Thanks October 09, 2005
:Hello there...rather late, but that's what I'm trying to do right now. The article, in my opinion, needs a lot of clean up, reducing POV bias, and additional sourcing, among other things. Juancarlos2004 00:11, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: There is an article by the Colombian Air Force about the disarming of one of the first paramilitary groups created in Colombia. There is a little bit of history there. Most of these first paramilitary groups were trained by an alleged Israeli mercenary called Jair Klein. The information provided by the FAC site could complement what has alrady been said here.--tequendamia 17:11, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This UN article has interesting information about the formation of paramilitary groups in Colombia.--tequendamia 17:22, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Yes, I agree that we should make it clear that exact figures are not known or agreed upon. Due to the large number of sources making estimates, however ,I'd say that what is most reasonable would be to be brief in the text of the article and simply include a range of estimates, citing the sources we derived the range from. I don't think we should clutter the body of the text with extensive discussion of who made what estimates, etc. per WP:UNDUE, because it's not relevant enough to the topic at hand to warrant extensive discussion here. However in the article for CONVIVIR, I think such an in-text discussion would be very welcome and beneficial. As far as Romero, he clearly looks like an expert on the subject. If you've got anything in particular you'd like to include, I don't personally see a problem with it. -- Jrtayloriv (talk) 07:30, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: The paramilitarism movement born against the guerrilla expantion. I erased the category that present the paramilitarism movement as guerrilla group.</br>
I speak in spanish and have an intermediate english level. Although I have some problems to write in english, I could get practice more with Wikipedia. Julkan (talk) 03:41, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Paramilitarism in Colombia article on guerrilla category

message: I'm a bit sleepy right now...but with respect to the recent edits, I've seen different figures from at least two sources. One of them is the [IInter-American Commission on Human Rightsts]], which in 1999 stated this:
321. Las estadísticas en relación con el número exacto de grupos e integrantes de las CONVIVIR son difíciles de obtener y dependen de qué grupo de seguridad privada sea tomado, o no, como CONVIVIR. Sin embargo, varias fuentes indican que existen aproximadamente 414 asociaciones de CONVIVIR. El Presidente de la Federación Nacional de Asociaciones de CONVIVIR, Carlos Alberto Díaz, indicó a la prensa en diciembre de 1997 que él creía que las CONVIVIR tenían más de 120,000 miembros.(151)
Quick translation:
321. Statistics related to the exact number of CONVIVIR groups and members are hard to obtain and depend on which kinds of private security groups are or aren't considered to be CONVIVIR. However, several sources indicate that there are approximately 414 CONVIVIR associations. The President of the National Federation of CONVIVIR Associations, Carlos Alberto Díaz, indicated to the press in December, 1997 that he thought the CONVIVIR groups had more than 120,000 members.(151)
In addition, page 104 of Mauricio Romero's Paramilitares y autodefensas. 1982-2003 reiterates the 414 total and adds a chart with the number of CONVIVIR groups per Department, citing 1997 data from the Superintendence of Vigilance and Private Security, which is as follows:
Santander: 106
Cundinamarca: 83
Antioquia: 65
Boyacá: 64
Córdoba: 19
Caldas: 12
Cesar: 8
Meta: 8
Other: 49
Total: 414
Romero has written extensively on paramilitarism and parapolitics. See here: 
I believe this discrepancy must be addressed or, at the very least, the original sources for each numerical estimate should be made clear in the article's main text. Having said that, I'll come back to this after getting some sleep. Juancarlos2004 (talk) 07:15, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I agree that we should make it clear that exact figures are not known or agreed upon. Due to the large number of sources making estimates, however ,I'd say that what is most reasonable would be to be brief in the text of the article and simply include a range of estimates, citing the sources we derived the range from. I don't think we should clutter the body of the text with extensive discussion of who made what estimates, etc. per WP:UNDUE, because it's not relevant enough to the topic at hand to warrant extensive discussion here. However in the article for CONVIVIR, I think such an in-text discussion would be very welcome and beneficial. As far as Romero, he clearly looks like an expert on the subject. If you've got anything in particular you'd like to include, I don't personally see a problem with it. -- Jrtayloriv (talk) 07:30, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Different CONVIVIR figures 

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