Talk:Environmental impact of electricity generation

message: There seems to be hardly any cons there at all, only pros. I thought this goes against Wiki's commitment to Neutrality. I signed up just to point this out!
Cons of wind power are more than just the heritage/landscape ones mentioned in the article. For example, the variability of wind - capacity factors are around 30% in most cases. Any large deployment of wind turbines requires an equally large deployment of controllable "back-up" generation to make up for the shortfall when the wind doesn't blow, and even in the windiest areas, weeks can go by with no wind at all. 
The circa 300 cubic metres per large turbine of concrete used in the base creates huge CO2 emissions and the lime leaches into the soil making it alkaline. 
The infrastructure needed for construction - new roads etc are often built just for construction and maintenance, and have no other traffic. 
Noticable low-frequency vibrations to residents within 0.5miles during times when a turbine is downwind of another turbine.
The way that windfarms drive a wedge between communities, forcing old friends, neigbours and families to be either for or against. Suicides have been commited which are directly attributable to the divisions caused.
I realise I have no references for all this - but I just wanted to point out the blatant bias of the Wind section in the hope that an Administrator will correct this. The neutrality of Wikipedia is it's most valuable strength.
Marley909 23:21, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No administrator will correct this.  Fixing this article is your civic duty!  If, however, you can find sources for things like the concrete used, I would love to see them. -Theanphibian (talk • contribs) 23:23, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Wind Energy section is extremely biased! 

message: There's a link to this article from Nuclear Power, which includes a nice (if brief) discussion of the environmental impacts of nuclear power generation. I'd suggest that it should be moved to this page (and the link retained, of course), which would 'complete the set' on this page, and make it easier to find that information. Gholson 12:10, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Management of the material across the different articles is difficult.  I just created a new article about the environmental effects of nuclear power - and one of my motivations for doing so was that this was sort of a POV fork, where poorly structured and weaselly statements worked their way in when it wouldn't have been allowed in nuclear power.  But now that I've done that, I find someone has created a new summary here that's very to the point and I'm rather happy to see. -Theanphibian (talk • contribs) 07:11, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  No Mention of Nuclear 

message: The difference between nuclear electricity generation and fossile fuels (second table, third data column) seems to be too large. While nuclear generation is less efficient and fossile fuel plants discharge some of the waste energy in the flue gases, a ratio of 1200 vs 2700 is bigger than any figures I come across. 
:Looking at the source for the second table:  "Report to Congress on the Interdependence of Energy and Water", the figures given for tower cooling are:
:*fossil, biomass, waste: 300-480 gal/MWh
:*nuclear: 400-720 gal/MWh
:In liters these are respectively 1140-1820 and 1520-2740. In other words, the highest estimate is quoted for nuclear power, the lowest for fossil fuels (except coal where both are mentioned) and biomass. Ssscienccce (talk) 20:18, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Water usage data 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: No question this important article needs more references. There are whole sections without a single reference. I have made a start GRALISTAIR (talk) 20:29, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lack of references and inline cites 

message: Lead says this article only operational impact - I think it should cover all impact - what do you think? Chidgk1 (talk) 08:40, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: deleted "This page looks exclusively at the operational environmental impact of electricity generation." Chidgk1 (talk) 17:08, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scope? 

message: Reference: Nuclear Energy Institute factsheet using EPRI data and other sources.
Electricity industry (incl. gas & liquid fuels) value chain – water consumption, LCA emission intensity & capacity factor
Feedstock/ fuel/ resource	Raw material production
L/MW·h
[L/GJ]	Fermentation/ processing/refining
L/MW·h
[L/GJ]	Electricity generation with closed-loop cooling            	Total water consumption
L/MW·h	CO2 -eq
kg/MW·he	SO2kg/MW·h	NOxkg/MW·h	H2Skg/MW·h	Particulatekg/MW·h	Cdmg/MW·h                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              	Hgmg/MW·h	On-site accidents
deaths/TW·yr                                                                                                                      	Average capacity factor
%
Traditional oil          	10.8–25.2
[3–7]	90–234
[25–65]              	~                                                               	1,300.8–1,459.2    	              	          	          	          	                  	Alsema, E.A.; Wild – Scholten, M.J. de; Fthenakis, V.M. Environmental impacts of PV electricity generation – a critical comparison of energy supply options Abstract ECN, September 2006; 7p. Presented at the 21st European Photovoltaic Solar Energy Conference and Exhibition, Dresden, Germany, 4–8 September 2006.	         	                                                                                                                                                    	~
Enhanced oil recovery    	180-32,400
[50-9,000]	90–234
[25–65]              	~                                                               	1,470–33,834       	              	          	          	          	                  	                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       	         	                                                                                                                                                    	~
Oil sands                	252-6,480*
[70-1,800*]	90–234
[25–65]              	~                                                               	1,542–7,914        	              	          	          	          	                  	                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       	         	                                                                                                                                                    	~
Biofuels:
corn           	32,400–360,000
[9,000–100,000]	169.2–180
Ethanol:[47-50]   	~                                                               	33,769.2–361,380   	~             	          	          	~         	                  	                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       	~        	                                                                                                                                                    	~
Biofuels:
soybean        	180,000–972,000
[50,000–270,000]	Biodiesel:[14]              	~                                                               	181,250.4–973,250.4	~             	          	          	~         	                  	                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       	~        	                                                                                                                                                    	~
Coal                     	20–270
[5–70]	504–792-to-liquids:[140-220]	200-2,000                                                       	Coal-to-liquids:N.C.
220-2,270	B:863–941
Br:1175	          	          	          	                  	H:3.1-
L:6.2                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           	14-
61Ministry of the Environment and Climate Change | Ontario.ca	                                                                                                                                                    	70–90
Traditional gas          	Minimal	[7]                         	                                                                	                   	:cc
(491–655) 	          	          	          	                  	                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       	0.1-
0.6 	                                                                                                                                                    	~
Natural gas:
shale gas   	129.6–194.4
[36–54]	[7]                         	                                                                	854.8–919.6        	:oc
(627–891) 	          	          	          	                  	                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       	0.1-
0.6 	                                                                                                                                                    	~
U nuclear                	170–570	See:Raw Material            	                                                                	2,870–3,270        	60–65 (10–130)	          	          	          	                  	                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       	         	                                                                                                                                                    	86.8-92
Hydroelectric            	       	                            	:Evap.Avg                                                       	                   	              	          	          	          	                  	                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       	         	                                                                                                                                                    	
Geothermal power         	       	                            	Fresh:0–20
5,300                                                	Fresh:0–20
5,300   	TL0–1
TH91–122	          	          	          	                  	                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       	         	                                                                                                                                                    	73-90+
Conc. solar              	       	                            	2,800–3,500                                                     	2,800–3,500        	±15#          	          	          	          	                  	                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       	         	                                                                                                                                                    	56.2–72.9
Photovoltaics            	       	                            	Minimal                                                         	Minimal            	              	          	          	          	                  	0.3–0.9                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                	         	                                                                                                                                                    	14-19
Wind power               	       	                            	Minimal                                                         	Minimal            	              	          	          	          	                  	                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       	         	Wind Energy – Accidents & Safety 1 May 2013 Paul Gipe "A Summary of Fatal Accidents in Wind Energy": Deaths per TWh of cumulative generation – 0.031	21-40
Tidal power              	       	                            	Minimal                                                         	                   	              	          	          	          	                  	                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       	         	                                                                                                                                                    	
Feedstock/ fuel/ resource	Raw material production
L/MW·h
[L/GJ]	Fermentation/ processing/refining
L/MW·h
[L/GJ]	Electricity generation with closed-loop cooling L/MW·h	Total water consumption
L/MW·h	CO2-eq
kg/MW·he	SO2
kg/MW·h	NOx
kg/MW·h	H2S
kg/MW·h	Particulate
kg/MW·h	Cd
mg/MW·h                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             	Hg
mg/MW·h	Lethal on-site accidents
deaths/TW·yr                                                                                                               	Average capacity factor
%
Source(s): Adapted from US Department of Energy, Energy Demand on Water Resources. Report to Congress on the Interdependence of Energy and Water, December 2006 (except where noted).
*Cambridge Energy Research Associates (CERA) estimate. #Educated estimate.
Water Requirements for Existing and Emerging Thermoelectric Plant Technologies. US Department of Energy, National Energy Technology Laboratory, August 2008.
Note(s): 3.6 GJ = gigajoule(s) == 1 MW·h = megawatt-hour(s), thus 1 L/GJ = 3.6 L/MW·h. B = Black coal (supercritical)-(new subcritical), Br = Brown coal (new subcritical), H = Hard coal, L = Lignite, cc = combined cycle, oc = open cycle, TL = low-temperature/closed-circuit (geothermal doublet), TH = high-temperature/open-circuit. Chidgk1 (talk) 17:16, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Do we need this hard to follow old table? If so please undo my change 

message: I deleted this because I cannot figure out where it is on the cite. If you can find it maybe consider putting this in the article I have excepted from instead of back in here as tidal is so rare at the moment
=====Tidal turbines=====
Land constrictions such as straits or inlets can create high velocities at specific sites, which can be captured with the use of turbines. These turbines can be horizontal, vertical, open, or ducted and are typically placed near the bottom of the water column.
The main environmental concern with tidal energy is associated with blade strike and entanglement of marine organisms as high speed water increases the risk of organisms being pushed near or through these devices. As with all offshore renewable energies, there is also a concern about how the creation of EMF and acoustic outputs may affect marine organisms. Because these devices are in the water, the acoustic output can be greater than those created with offshore wind energy. Depending on the frequency and amplitude of sound generated by the tidal energy devices, this acoustic output can have varying effects on marine mammals (particularly those who echo-locate to communicate and navigate in the marine environment such as dolphins and whales). Tidal energy removal can also cause environmental concerns such as degrading far-field water quality and disrupting sediment processes. Depending on the size of the project, these effects can range from small traces of sediment build up near the tidal device to severely affecting nearshore ecosystems and processes.
=====Tidal barrage=====
Tidal barrages are dams built across the entrance to a bay or estuary that captures potential tidal energy with turbines similar to a conventional hydrokinetic dam. Energy is collected while the height difference on either side of the dam is greatest, at low or high tide. A minimum height fluctuation of 5 meters is required to justify the construction, so only 40 locations worldwide have been identified as feasible.
Installing a barrage may change the shoreline within the bay or estuary, affecting a large ecosystem that depends on tidal flats. Inhibiting the flow of water in and out of the bay, there may also be less flushing of the bay or estuary, causing additional turbidity (suspended solids) and less saltwater, which may result in the death of fish that act as a vital food source to birds and mammals. Migrating fish may also be unable to access breeding streams, and may attempt to pass through the turbines. The same acoustic concerns apply to tidal barrages. Decreasing shipping accessibility can become a socio-economic issue, though locks can be added to allow slow passage. However, the barrage may improve the local economy by increasing land access as a bridge. Calmer waters may also allow better recreation in the bay or estuary. Chidgk1 (talk) 19:07, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cannot find Tidal info in cite 

message: Tidal barrages are dams built across the entrance to a bay or estuary that captures potential tidal energy with turbines similar to a conventional hydrokinetic dam. Energy is collected while the height difference on either side of the dam is greatest, at low or high tide. A minimum height fluctuation of 5 meters is required to justify the construction, so only 40 locations worldwide have been identified as feasible.
Installing a barrage may change the shoreline within the bay or estuary, affecting a large ecosystem that depends on tidal flats. Inhibiting the flow of water in and out of the bay, there may also be less flushing of the bay or estuary, causing additional turbidity (suspended solids) and less saltwater, which may result in the death of fish that act as a vital food source to birds and mammals. Migrating fish may also be unable to access breeding streams, and may attempt to pass through the turbines. The same acoustic concerns apply to tidal barrages. Decreasing shipping accessibility can become a socio-economic issue, though locks can be added to allow slow passage. However, the barrage may improve the local economy by increasing land access as a bridge. Calmer waters may also allow better recreation in the bay or estuary. Chidgk1 (talk) 19:07, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Tidal barrage

message: "while hydroelectricity has water usage from evaporation from the reservoirs." That is beyond my understanding, can anybody help explain? Thanks. ThomasYehYeh (talk) 00:14, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Need explanation for following wordings 

message: "Natural gas 100 (once-through cycle) 800 (steam-cycle, cooling towers) 1,170 (steam-cycle with cooling towers)" 1. difference between "steam-cycle, cooling towers" and "steam-cycle with cooling towers"? and why the cycles use much more water than once-through cycle? Thank you. ThomasYehYeh (talk) 01:33, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Need explanation and clarification for the table in section of Water use