Talk:The Morrígan

message: Recommend that it be expanded and turned into its own article.  Most of the Darkstalkers characters have their own pages, and aside from the name, Morrigan Aensland has no real connection with the historical/mythological Morrigan.--Mitsukai 17:38, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Morrigan Aensland 

message: I have revised my etymological entries regarding the name of this deity by making them more concise and citing all my 7 academic sources within the two sentences of the paragraph. I am glad others are starting to notice the subjectivity of this page. It would be better, I think, to say that x, y and z hold that Morrigan is parallel with Morgana than to say Morrigan = Morgana
To all those with tendencies toward druidic animistic philosophy, I say: may the Nightmarish Queenly Spirit possess us all when we do battle! 
Sincerely: User:GeoffMGleadall.
Do we have to have the convoluted and ultra-linked sentence  elucidating systematic diachronic phonological sound change in Celtic proto-linguistics complete with six external links, on every page with an etymology? 
--Nantonos 3 July 2005 16:35 (UTC)
Yes, Valley God, we do. How else I am to concisely substantiate my edits with authoritiative sources? Style is a personal thing, isn't it? User:GeoffMGleadall
I'm certainly not complaining about citing references, quite the opposite. My comment was about the unnecessarily convoluted wording. (-on- btw is not restricted to theonyms) --Nantonos 13:05, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: This would be really worthwhile information to add to the article. Can you cite some sources so I can add it in?  Fuzzypeg  talk  23:52, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Hallo, Fuzzypeg.  I'm not as active on the internet as I used to be, so I have only just found your comment on my Talk page (mirrored here);  gabh mo leisgeul.  By all means, DIL gives a number of examples with references, and attributes the "Phantom Queen" etymology to Whitley Stokes (Revue Celtique xii, 128, published 1891) and Henri d'Arbois de Jubainville (ibid. xxix, 125, published 1908).  As I noted previously, this is the more popular etymology at present (amongst Old Irish scholars, at least), but "more popular" does not always equal "more accurate," and academia seems to change preferred theories on various subjects every two decades or so.  From the way DIL puts it, it might seem that the spelling "Mórrígan" dates only from the Middle Irish period, but two of the Middle Irish texts referenced for this spelling include Lebor Laignech, which features both spellings, and Lebor na hUidre, which is the oldest extant surviving manuscript in any form of Irish (Old, Middle, or otherwise).  I would also suggest consulting the scholars of OLD-IRISH-L for further information, as they will have access to resources I currently do not have access to (I'm no longer subscribed to that list, since, as I noted above, I'm not as active on the net as I once was --- although I readily admit that I do miss being active on that list and interacting with some of the people there). Croman mac Nise / Crommán mac Nessa / Cromán mac Neasa (talk) 15:30, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. I've tried to incorporate the sources you supply into the article. You might want to have a look and see how I went... Fuzzypeg★ 03:05, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Etymology

message: There really are a lot of names attached to "Morrígan". Is there any consensus on how best to approach this? The article should note at least some of the alternate names attested in the early modern literature, such as "Anann", "Bé Néit", and so forth. Whateley23 11:19, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Go for it. I'd also remove "otherworld queen" as a translation - the *mor element is about scariness, nothing to do with the "otherworld", and the Morrígan as a character is not particularly associated with the "otherworld" in any of the stories.  --Nicknack009 09:33, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just checked - Morrígan already exists as a redirect page, so the move function wouldn't work. There's probably a way of doing it, but I don't know what it is. I removed the "otherworld queen" translation and made a few minor tweaks to the text. --Nicknack009 10:00, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I thought that Clark listed "otherworld queen" as one of the meanings, but I looked today and could not find it.  Sorry for the brain-glitch.  That'll teach me to edit from memory only, late at night.  I'll look into some other way of switching which page is the main and which is the redirect. --Kathryn NicDhàna 23:50, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

text: They must have changed things since I last tried to do something like that. Hopefully it'll last. --Nicknack009 13:09, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other Names 

message: The Guises of The Morrigan seems to be about a specific book, http://www.avaloniabooks.co.uk/ while the Mórrígan page is about the deity which is the subject of that book. A redirect or merger would not, therefore, seem appropriate. However, general material from the book could be cited on the Mórrígan page and The Guises of The Morrigan should link to Mórrígan for further information about the subject matter.
--Nantonos 13:05, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed Merger 

message: Pardon my ignorance, but is this really correct? Does not sound entirely correct, but I may be missing something. --Mceder 04:40, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The Mórrígan was no longer considered, or worshipped as, a goddess by the time her stories as we have them were written down. Reading between the lines, she almost certainly was one in earlier times, but we've no record from those earlier times. In most cases in Irish mythology, deciding who was and who wasn't a deity is a matter of interpretation and inference. --Nicknack009 09:04, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

text: Exactly - but those stories written by Christian monks are the only sources we have, and have to be interpreted. There is no certainty in Irish mythology. There are some (eg TF O'Rahilly) who would claim that characters depicted as entirely mortal like Cormac mac Airt were gods, and others who insist that the Tuatha Dé Danann were not gods, but mortals with magical powers from a "golden age", or Danes, or the Biblical Tribe of Dan. I think it's best to represent what the texts say and keep interpretation to a minimum and clearly marked as such. I agree that the Morrígan's appearances in the texts show all the signs of divinity, but they don't call her a goddess - unlike Odin, who is described and treated as a god in surviving Norse texts. --Nicknack009 09:28, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: in Tochmarc Emire, we are told that the Morrígan is the wife of Néit, and that "úair is inand Néid 7 día in chatha" ("for Neit is the same as God of Battle"). as Epstein says (pp.52-53 of the electronic edition), "It is worth noting that while this text is fairly late, tenth century at the earliest, when the Irish would have been Christians for at least four hundred years, she is clearly depicted as a deity of their past." similarly, Cormac's Glossary gives us, "Néid .i. día catha la geinti Góideal.  Nemon uxor illius .i. a ben sin." ("Néit, i.e. a god of battle the pagan Irish have. Nemain is his wife.") Nemain, of course, is identified with Morrígan in numerous contexts. further, Danann, whose name is also associated with Morrígan (Anann and Danann are two variants of a name given to her in some texts) is the "mother of the gods", where "gods" here specifically refers to Brian, Iuchar, and Iucharba. she could hardly be mother of gods if she weren't one herself. so, while the term is not specifically applied to her in any extant text, it seems overly pedantic to insist that this means that she wasn't seen as a goddess (albeit a "false" one) by the Christianized monks writing about her. Whateley23 00:57, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed.  I think it would be appropriate to list her as a goddess. --Kathryn NicDhàna 03:46, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just noticed this in a different connection, but Seathrún Céitinn apparently lists Badhbh, Macha, and Móirríoghan as goddesses (can't quote the Irish version, because apparently CELT's ftp server's down). It's a late source of course, but still "a text"... Q·L·1968 ☿ 10:24, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "Former" Goddess?

message: "Originally she was a sex goddess." So.. what happened that changed her from a sex goddess to a war goddess? I'm going to put up a fact tag next to it, just because it sounds incredibly out of place with nothing to back it up. Disinclination (talk) 23:47, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sex goddess? 

message: Since we're talking about a goddess, I fail to see how a glob vaguely resembling a raven (even if the raven is special to the goddess) is really an appropriate picture.
Now I am neither a fan of the painter or the type of painting, but it's hardly a clear visual representation of a goddess, which is most important.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Feyre (talk • contribs) 23:48, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This is not a pagan encyclopedia, and we are not here to provide iconography. The image is relevant to the article and available for use according to Wikipedia's copyright rules. If you have a better one, feel free to add it. --Nicknack009 (talk) 02:20, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture 

message: This may sound odd to many, but Muruga or Murugan is an ancient Tamil God praised by Tamils for more than 2500 years. I firmly believe there is a lot of connection between Early European and Tamil languages, I collected so many word similarities and listed here, may be it will be usefull for some.English and Tamil similar words.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Malarmisai (talk • contribs) 16:30, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Not just a Tamil god, but a Tamil god of war. However note that Tamil is a Dravidian language, not related to European languages as Hindi is. WeHaveTwelveFeet (talk) 03:32, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  The name sounds the Tamil diety Murugan 

message: Why does this article keep referring to the Tuatha de, instead of the Tuatha de Danann?
Tuatha de translates as people of, while Tuatha de Danann, translates as Peoples of the goddess Danu. If you're going to refer to them in short, refer to them as Tuatha, not Tuatha de, which is incorrect.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.120.150.84 (talk) 17:22, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not Tuatha de Danann, it's Tuatha Dé Danann - Dé being genitive of día, god or goddess. Tuatha Dé means "Peoples of the Goddess", which is how they are often referred to in the texts. --Nicknack009 (talk) 17:31, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually in the texts Tuatha Dé means the "People of God" and refers to the Jewish people. The actual creation of the name Tuatha Dé Danann is perhaps not what it has been thought of either: see John Carey, “The Name ‘Tuatha Dé Danann.’” Éigse, Vol. 18 12.189.32.36 (talk) 00:20, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: That same article points out that Tuatha Dé is a common way of referring to the Tuatha Dé Danann as well, though; as the poster above you says, dé can be interpreted to mean god or goddess. Beurlach (talk) 17:30, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

text: Yes. The Gods are Irish, not French ;) - Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 20:27, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tuatha de 

message: Why does this article's title start with the English definite article "The"? This is not the common practice in Wikipedia. For instance, the article on the Emperor of Japan is at Emperor of Japan, although in common usage he is referred to as the Emperor of Japan. Darx9url (talk) 07:41, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Because her/their proper name always includes the article. Check the primary souces. Her/their name is not "Morrígan," it's "The Morrígan." Sticking to the sources is also important as some modern writers have been incorrectly calling her simply "Morrígan." - CorbieV☊☼ 17:53, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why 'The' 

message: I swear the picture of the Morrígan on the page seem reminiscent of the album cover for the Judas Priest album "Screaming for Vengeance"
I swear there's something rather uncanny about the similarities TruncateVirus99 (talk) 04:11, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Potential pop culture reference?