Talk:Docosahexaenoic acid

message: What is going on: why is it DocosAhexaenoic acid?
Where is the extra "A" coming from?
IUPAC rules are that an A becomes an E if there are double bonds.
See: pentane --> pentene
butanoic acid --> butenoic acid
octadecanoic acid --> octadecenoic acid (for oleic acid, 18:1).
So, why is it not Docoshexenoic acid, as the rules indicate it should be (it comes from docosane, C22)?
Does it have to do with the harsh SH sound, which people avoided by putting an A in there?
99.251.82.235 (talk) 20:28, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The "a" is not dropped when there is a prefix indicating multiple double bonds. For example, butane -> butene but butAdiene. Hexanoic acid -> hexenoic acid but hexAdienoic acid. Etc. --Itub (talk) 15:57, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  **Confusion about IUPAC name** 

message: I moved this section and text to talk:
:Fish oil has long been touted as a superior form of DHA compared to non-marine vegetable sources.  A recent study showed that infants fed DHA derived from algae did better than children fed DHA from fish oil.
because
* Using 'tout' isn't in keeping with NPOV
* No citation for the claim that fish oil is perceived as superior to non-marine sources
* Algae is a marine source; fish oil is (largely?) derived from algae in the food chain
* No citation for a recent study
* No indication as to by what measure the infants 'did better'.
David.Throop 14:45, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the improvement.  But the cited study compares a mixture of algal/fungal mixture to a fish-oil/algal mixture.  Also, from the citation, it's not possible to tell if the amounts of AA/EPA/DHA in the mixtures were identical.  The full study is behind the Elsiver subscription wall.  Has anybody seen the full study?  The citation alone doesn't establish that algal DHA is superior to  fish-oilP DHA. David.Throop 01:26, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The study cited compares four groups: breast-fed infants, formula-fed infants, formula-fed infants with algal DHA and fungal AA, and formula-fed infants with fish-derived DHA and fungal AA. The conclusion in the abstract only states that formulas supplemented with DHA and AA result in "enhanced growth", and does not differentiate between the performance of the fish oil DHA and the algal DHA. mordel (talk) 22:39, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Preferred Dietary Sources of DHA for Humans

message: Is the formula correct?  I think it perhaps should be C22 H32 O2  (not C22 H34 O2 as at present).
The molecular mass of 328.488 and the diagram of the molecule agree, but are not consistent with the formula given; see also the sigmaaldrich or PDR health sites where the formula is given as C22 H32 O2.  I think the CAS number is 6217-54-5. 
(added by a newcomer - apologies if the protocol of this posting is incorrect - and I'm too new to actually dare changing the page itself, although a number of Open University students with this molecule in an assignment may not thank me for not immediately making the correction!)
Stephenet 22:35, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is the formula correct? 

message: Although I agree with the original poster's POV, I've removed the commercial references from the mainspace text and have summarised the study to state what it does show - not what it *might* show.  If one claims *proof* beyond the scope of the referenced study, then one is also obliged to evaluate all similar studies and address alternate explanations.  István 14:55, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Nevada Study

message: I changed "plant-derived" to "algae-derived" to avoid confusing people who do not realize that the only known source of plant derived DHA is from algae, not flax or another land based source.
--RJMS 02:10, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Nevada Study Changes

message: The line "This, and features of the production and distribution of DHA in pregnant and lactating women, indicates that DHA per se is an essential nutrient." does not seem to belong in the section of DHA studies of Vegans and Vegetarians; the fact that vegans' DHA levels do not rise when given ALA supplements doesn't indicate the "essentialness" of DHA. The citation leads to an article about whether DHA is essential, with only a note about vegans:
"In contrast to the ease by which DHA status is influenced by dietary intake, it has become clear that humans are rather poor DHA synthesizers. This notion comes from studies showing the following:
:... The inability of dietary ALA supplements to augment DHA status in vegans has been observed despite their low baseline DHA status (25). "
which, is actually another reference to the actual study: 
Maybe there should be separate sections discussing DHA/veganism and whether DHA is essential?
Also, the study seems to only have included vegans, and though vegetarians wouldn't be eating fish/meat either, it would probably be more accurate to leave it at just "vegans".
Faunablues 22:07, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I found the medical article: doi: doi:10.3945/ajcn.2010.29457 and PMID 20861171 --Arthurfragoso (talk) 16:29, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I just added the study to the article:
--
Although another study showed that those who don't get enough DHA or no DHA (vegans) had a higher conversion ratio of ALA to EPA and DHA, women showed an even higher ratio of conversion. The study participants who had intake of DHA and those who don't (vegans) ended up having about the same amount of EPA and DHA plasma concentration. 
Reference:
--
--Arthurfragoso (talk) 23:08, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vegan/vegetarian study 

message: This article should have some reference to reduced levels of DHA observed in autistic patients, as shown in studies by Bell (2004); Vancassel (2001); Clark-Taylor (2004), and the benefits of DHA supplementation shown by Amminger (2007).  The mechanism is unknown as yet, but there is clearly a correlation of some sort.  I will add this section in a week or so if it hasn't been done by then (when I've finished my report on it!) Virtualt333 (talk) 16:33, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Autism??

message: The current form of this article includes:
"Of all the fatty acids, DHA has the largest effect on brain PUFA composition.[6] DHA is found in three phospholipids: phosphatidylethanolamine, ethanolamine plasmalogens, and phosphatidylserine (PS)."
However, the first sentence makes no sense while the second is an outright error.  There certainly is DHA in PG, PI, PA, and PC lipids, as well as cardiolipins.  I'll fix it when I get a chance.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Verytas (talk • contribs) 04:07, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: "DHA is the most abundant omega 3 fatty acid (polyunsaturated fatty acids, PUFAs) in the brain and retina."
PUFA ≠ omega 3.  Omega-3 is a kind of polyunsaturated fat.  This mistake renders the whole paragraph unintelligible, because you don't even know which (if either) is correct.--65.0.192.82 (talk) 11:05, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

text: Agree with 65.0.192.82!  I just did some editing to remove and correct some of the more egregious errors (including the subsection on sustainable sources of DHA, which seemed to be more about toxins than DHA).  However, many remain and overall this remains a very poor article.  Verytas (talk) 11:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

text: I concur, the study does not definitively show what is stated in the article. DeadFire999 (talk) 06:12, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Errors, misstatements 

message: This, this and this support DHA's relation to serotonin. "5-HT receptors are known to be modified by omega-3 fatty acids." There are also several articles on pubmed (look at "related articles" in the last link of the three) explaining that omega-3 can be used to treat schizophrenia (and psychosis). MichaelExe (talk) 21:50, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Serotonin 

message: I've done some fixing of the LEDE/LEAD, which gave a false impression. While it is true that microalgae are the ultimate source of most DHA in oceanic animals, that simply is NOT true of land animals that live far enough inland to get no seafood. The deer in the forests of Colorado has a brain high in DHA (and a fair amount of it in body fat) but NONE of it comes from microalgae. The deer makes it from ALA made by the plants it eats. Vegan humans make it the same way. SBHarris 18:30, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Humans cannot convert ALA to DHA in the same ratio that other mammals can regardless of vegetarian or vegan status. The average conversion rate is less than 5% for males and only slightly higher for females. Please provide source of Colorado deer ALA to DHA conversion example.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by MBC2011 (talk • contribs) 18:28, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources

message: --Regarding the possible reasons why EPA and not DHA may be more effective in depression, there is increasing evidence that DHA supplementation may have damaging effects on the nervous system. DHA, the most highly unsaturated ω3 LC-PUFA in the body, is very susceptible to lipid peroxidation and can damage DNA [84], increase production of reactive oxygen species in glial cells [85], and worsen neurologic state in rat perfusion-injury models [86]. Highly reactive A4/J4 neuroprostanes produced from DHA in vivo under conditions of oxidative stress [87] may explain some of the above negative findings. In addition, although retro-conversion of DHA to EPA can occur to a certain extent, DHA is at the end of the biosynthetic pathway of ω3 LC-PUFAs and therefore supplementation may boost DHA to levels that cannot be adequately handled by metabolic pathways, which in turn, may further exacerbate production of damaging reactive derivatives. It is noteworthy that under normal circumstances, the rate of conversion of dietary α-linolenic acid to DHA is about 1% [88] and daily turnover of DHA in the adult human brain is only 4.6 mg [89], suggesting that it may not be desirable to boost DHA levels to such an extent as occurs during supplementation [82]. 
http://www.jacn.org/content/28/5/525.full  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.194.190.179 (talk) 06:00, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Should be mentioned in the article ? (or was it, and then deleted ?) - Rod57 (talk) 08:43, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  DHA is bad for you (metastudy) 

message: In the first paragraph, there's written that "Vegetarians and vegans have substantially lower levels of DHA in their bodies". However, the second paragraph reads "In a study of over 14,000 men and women, vegans with no intake of dietary EPA or DHA still had very high levels of plasma DHA" and "Male vegans had only slightly lower levels of DHA […] than fish-eaters". Does it mean that the cited studies lead to contradictory results, or should one of the paragraphs be reworded (perhaps by changing or omitting the word "substantially" in the first one or "slightly" in the second one)? 90.176.211.48 (talk) 13:24, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Studies of vegetarians and vegans - apparent contradiction 

message: Substituted at 13:33, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment from Nov 2007

message: We need a section on how it is metabolised, eg. by CYP2C9..., where, at what rate, and to what. eg. CYP2C9 says "It likewise metablizes docosahexaenoic acid to epoxydocosapentaenoic acids (EDPs; primarily 19,20-epoxy-eicosapentaenoic acid isomers [i.e. 10,11-EDPs]) " ... I'll start one. - Rod57 (talk) 08:25, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Need a section on how it is metabolised eg to EDPs 

message: Article mentions levels and deficiency but doesn't say what they are [numerically], or how they are tested. - Rod57 (talk) 08:39, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: 'Vegan/vegetarian study' comment above (Dec 2011) above says " the average DHA level in fish eaters was 271 micromoles per liter, compared with 241.3, 223.5, and 286.4 micromoles per liter for non-fish-eating meat-eaters, vegetarians, or vegans, respectively." with source. - Rod57 (talk) 13:32, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  What are normal and deficient plasma DHA levels 

message: DHA seems to counteract the [bad] epigenetic effects of fructose in rats says : Fructose Disrupts Brain Gene Networks, Omega-3 Restores Them. April 2016 - Rod57 (talk) 13:30, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Seems to counteract the epigenetic effects of fructose in rats 

message: Tardispower added this content below which I removed with the edit comment: "rv unsourced; rv "brain damage" content & ref not stated in the article and not confirmed; rv PCB statement which is not confirmed as toxic in supplements"
Tardispower's edit: "However, fish oil supplement manufacturing introduces considerable amounts of PCBs and other pollutants to such an extent that the recommended daily dosages would exceed the tolerable daily intake of toxicity.
:The PCB comment has two issues: 1) it does not state that all fish oil supplements are contaminated with PCBs; 2) it does not state that DHA levels in the supplement would be affected if PCBs were present, and that if PCBs were present, the daily intake ceiling for DHA would be affected. This is unclear reasoning and there are no data to support such a statement.
Tardispower's further comment: "I noticed that Zefr removed my edits on this page. You will note that while claiming that what I wrote in the article was "unsourced", despite the citation which clearly makes it sourced, you have kept the primary studies which are in favour of fish oils in the paragraph below. I would also note that Polychlorinated biphenyl are definitely considered a toxic substance. The toxicology report cited focuses solely on supplements, which counters your comment "PCB statement which is not confirmed as toxic in supplements." I would also recommend going over the PCB page to actually see how it has been proven to be a toxic compound. In the future, I recommend that we use the talk page where significant and important information can be discussed and shaped without outright removing it since the citations I made meet the notability and reliable source criteria. I urge the user to use this page to discuss further and clearly justify the removal of what the user calls unsourced claims."Tardispower (talk) 14:41, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Tardispower also wrote that "brain damage" resulted from consuming contaminated fish oil by this edit and this source, . That is not what the source reported (a study of IQ decreases) and the source has not been confirmed by more substantial numbers of subjects in a more rigorous clinical trial design; this source is WP:PRIMARY and is not useable for these claims. --Zefr (talk) 15:00, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Toxicology in fish oil

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Say if in its pure state is is hard, soft, green, blue, etc. Jidanni (talk) 03:34, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mention what it looks like 

message: See here. Count Iblis (talk) 12:09, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scientific fraud