Talk:Chav/Archive 4

message: So would it be safe to assume that a chav is essentially Great Britain's answer to the wigger in the United States? --M.Neko
Only sort of; a chav could be black, white, asian or whatever. However, it IS fairly highly influenced by hip-hop culture so, in that way, any white chavs would probably be fairly close to wiggers, but its a far from direct equivalent. The term 'wigger' is known and used in the UK too. --Robdurbar 08:22, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wiggers v. Chavs 

message: This article seems to infer that to be a chav one must be from an 'impoverished background' given that chavs are quite common in very well-off upper-middle class towns, particularly London satelite towns I'm not convinced that this is accurate. The idea that a chav must be poor is a recent change to the definition made in the last year or so when the wider media adopted (and misunderstood the meaning of) the word.
Obviously everyone's definition of a chav will be different but to my mind it is far more to do with antisocial behaviour and an associated dress-sense than financial situation. As such I feel that defining them as 'impoversihed' is misleading.
MagicBez 01:31, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Lol, I see why, you removed it. Yeah, I think that's right. --Robdurbar 07:47, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Affluence and being a chav 

message: Is the Ali G character a chav? Is he supposed to be one? A lot of the description in the chav article seems to fit. — 208.180.197.2 17:08, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, sorry. Apparently this has come up before twice with no real consensus. He is the first character who came to mind when I read the article, though. — 208.180.197.2 17:19, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Not even - the Ali G character is deeply ambiguous racially but obviously not what he purports to be - i.e. black - and much of the sketches' humour rests on this ambiguity.  Gerry Lynch 15:37, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ali G 

message: It seems that every culture has it's own chavs. Here in Puerto Rico we have cacos who are very similar to chavs in many ways but it mainly refers to young men who are involved in the reggaeton music scene and often dress in typical hip-hop fashion(a notable example is the famous reggaeton artist Daddy Yankee). They are often known for their ignorant, violent and hedonistic behavior and their affinity for modifying compact asian cars and sport-scooters with sound systems, graphics and after-market "racing" parts. 
And I also read about a subculture in Spain known as makinetos(also known as bakalas) who are called this way because of their obsession with "makina" music. They share many common traits with chavs such as fashion(tracksuits and gold jewellry), behavior(violence, bad attitude and prejudice towards other youth cultures) and low brow interests(usually sex, drinking and recreational drug use). Can any Spanish readers fill us in on this? We'd appreciate it - Jesse C.
In the city of Barcelona (Catalonia, Spain), we had the "Xavas" or "Chavas" (same pronunciation), who were characterized by their accent, unconspicuously ridiculous clothing, modifed cars and showy items. The similarity between the names Chavas and Chav, I take it to be a coincidence. The true Chavas were the descendants of spanish inmigrants living in the Sants neighbourhood in Barcelona. This was arround the 1960's; nowadays the "chava" accent (when speaking catalan language) still exists, even among young people.
It appears that there's always going to be a lower class of males with violent tendancies somewhere in the world.  Perhaps it would be appropriate if a phrase was coined to explain "violent male youths expressing fashions influenced by the American hip-hop culture."  VMYEFIBAHHC for short.  Or maybe Wierd Al said it best: Young dumb and ugly.  ElijahD 12:23, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chavs around the world 

message: How does one pronounce this intruiging word? Szarka 14:55, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronounciation 

message: This keeps being reinserted into the article by an anonymous user operating from a range of proxy ips and I can't change it because of the Wikipedia:Three Revert Rule. However, to include such imformation it needs to be verifiable i.e. you need to source the assertion that it has been used in Kent since the 1920s. --Robdurbar 08:52, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Kent/Early 1920s

message: The website Fatpie has released a series of video charicatures of the chav lifestyle, with David Firth's character 'Devvo'. These will be aired on E4 at the 29th of June and repeated on the 14th of July.
Skittle 16:13, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed sentences

message: I saw those words at the beginning of the article. Why were they put there? What do they mean?
:Never mind. And sorry I didn't sign before.DL 13:32, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  this means its wel mint innit 

message: Someone has substituted 'fact' and varitations thereof for 'stereotype'. Comically refering to stereotypes of chavs as 'facts' devalues the real facts about them which are stated in the article. They would appear sillier to the reader if the article reported the social group more accurately.
Rintrah 13:38, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Someone please remove all the 'facts' 

message: I've removed the entire section entitled Sham 69's "Hersham Boys": A Possible Explanation for "Chav"?.  It was wholly unsourced and had all of the appearance (especially given the title and closing sentence) of a first publication, directly in Wikipedia, of a novel hypothesis about the origin of the name for this stereotype, in contravention of our Wikipedia:No original research policy.  If you wish to reinstate it, please ensure that you cite sources that are making this particular argument.  This article is an original research magnet, and unsourced material will be removed from it without mercy.  Uncle G 14:31, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sham 69 

message: Minor point, but I edited to change "List of similar stereotypes" back to "List of similar terms". The latter seems more neutral; whether the terms in fact refer to stereotypes, and to what degree, is a matter of opinion and analysis. A number of other articles have a "List of similar terms" section as well. Cheers, --MCB 16:56, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "terms" vs. "stereotypes" 

message: Although it can be argued that a few more chavs are signing up to Myspace.com than before, I always thought of that site as more of an 'alternative style site'. Wouldn't something like Faceparty.com be classed as far more popular than Myspace.com with the chav culture?--Like omgzz 00:36, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah I agree, faceparty seems a lot more charva. Myspace is world reknowned for being the domain of emo kids.--Josquius 12:43, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Myspace.com 

message: I am concerned that this section is growing to be a list of lower-class stereotypes from around the world, with only tenuous relevance to the topic of the article. I would like to move this list somewhere more appropriate, possible to a new "Scum and Villainy terms around the world" article, if no appropriate article already exists. Thoughts? --Eyrian 13:52, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Similar Stereotypes 

message: Every time I look at this article, in the line "(...)is a slang term in wide use throughout the United Kingdom since 1999", the date has changed! First it was 2004, then 2003, and now 1999! Could we please get a fixed date? Crazy Eddy 11:06, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The earliest mentions I can find on newsgroups are from 1998, but it definitely wasn't widespread until 2004, that's when one of the newspapers named it as the 'word of the year', and this article was first written. Changed back to 2004. BillyH 12:30, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What is the source for this information? -- zzuuzz (talk) 12:36, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: For the 1998 date, I posted some links here. For the 2004 date, the first non-redirect version of this page is here, October 2004. Before then the article was at Townie , which was, IIRC, the word commonly used before 'Chav' became popular. BillyH 13:11, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I tend to agree with chocolateboy in the archive - this appears to be original research. Excluding Wikipedia as a source, I think the most verifiable claim we have is the word of the year in 2004, but I am not sure if that title indicates when usage became common, or even wide. This type of claim needs to come from a reliable source. Perhaps there should be a different verifiable claim - for example it first appeared in Collins dictionary  and the OED in 2005. -- zzuuzz (talk) 17:11, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I searched for the word on the BBC News website, and this is the earliest result, from October 2004, when Susie Dent named it as the 'buzzword of the year' in her book. In Google Groups, there are 150 results for 'Chav' in 2003  but a lot of which seem to be unrelated. In 2004 there's 7,950 , and in 2005 there's 12,300 , though 2003 to 2004 sees the biggest jump. You're right, though, a better claim would be good. BillyH 19:11, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, these searches are original research and therefore irrelevant. I'd be inclined to go with the first entry into the OED. -- zzuuzz (talk) 19:18, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Since when?? 

message: The proposed merger with Scally is misguided as the terms are similar, but not synonymous. Scally is sometimes virtually a term of endearment, which is significantly different to Chav. Addhoc 13:26, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oppose Merger 

message: They are different things and should be changed back into seperate articles!
Indeed (cleaned up your comment a bit there)--Josquius 11:50, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: = Chav or Charver 

message: Whilst chavs are uninteresting, criminally orientated and vile, there is a tendency for some of the better heeled in society to label anyone of working class extraction as chavs.  This trend is very noticeable on the well known ChavScum website, where ignorant goons openly make fun of the poor while pretending to direct their wrath at the poorly dressed anti-social elements.  Guv2006 14:24, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Snobbishness

message: I've been checking out this article and the pages it links to for a couple of days. For some reason, the concept just strikes me as fascinating. Maybe that's because I'm an American whose never been to the UK, and while I've never actually seen a chav (or a British one anyway), it's like looking at an offshoot of our culture that's just sort of taken off on it's own and mixed with some other subcultures and British culture to the point where there's a recognizable similarity, but it's also something very different from the US variety. For instance, while alot of people do the whole 'bling bling' thing, the fascination with Burberry in particular is just odd. Here in the US, Burberry isn't really a part of hip hop culture. The fact that other youth cultures are at odds with the chavs is also something unusual. Goths (for example) aren't really an enemy of hip hop kids here in the states. In fact, Marilyn Manson has appeared in an Eminem video. The reaction of the upper classes to the chavs is also something odd. It's true that alot of subcultures in the US find hip hop threatening, but these are usually in more conservative places like Utah. Most major cities have accepted or absorbed hip hop into the mainstream, although gangsta rap does raise an eyebrow now and then. Even the rural areas on the coasts and in the north don't really have much of a problem with hip hip (again, with some exceptions). But in the UK, it appears that there is a very strong negative reaction to it, and in some of the more liberal areas, too. The fact that the word 'chav' has become the buzzword of the year is just so strange to me. Sure, people use the term 'wigger', but that's mostly the racists and the older folks, and it's becoming less and less common every day. 'White trash' doesn't really mean the same thing as 'chav' either, anymore than 'trailer trash' does. Those terms more imply very low income white people, who may or may not neccesarily like hip hop or 'bling bling' stuff. Alot of trailer trash are peopel who follow country music more than anything else. And how the raver element got mixed in with it all is mystifying to me. Plus, alot of our hip hop kids over here aren't from the trailer park or the urban ghetto at all-it's most popular among teens from the suburbs here in Upstate New York, although it is certainly a part of urban life here, too. It's just so crazy to see what Europe has done with this US subculture.
:It was very interesting to read your take on this. There's something about youth culture in the UK that constantly divides youth into two rival scenes. The goth vs chav thing could already be seen in the 1960s with the mods vs rockers (goths being the descendants of rockers, chavs descendants of mods). In the late 70s there were punks vs rockabillies. The basic divide any teenager is confronted with is whether to become a follower of fashion brands (which can be done to excess, thus frightening adults) or to cultivate an outrageous anti-fashion style. As always in the sociology of the UK there is a relationship with social class. Teenagers from slightly more middle class backgrounds may be able to get away with wearing goth styles, whereas those from working class backgrounds are more likely to want to get respect through wearing brands that are perceived as high quality. Itsmejudith 23:19, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Huh?

message: I'm sure Pikeys are not of relation to Chavs they are or descend from Irish Travellers, and according to my brother (rather an expert on such 'chavvish' matters) is npt the same thing therefore not a synonym of the word chav. Please varify this... I wonder any Chav wikipedia users?
:Well, in the area where I live, the south east, the only word we knew for chavs was 'pikey' until quite recently when chav became the nationwide accepted word for such people, even now it is still our most common word we use for them. Yes, the term does originate from the Irish Travellers, but these days it has taken other, albeit linked, meanings. I gather our use originated as Travellers were considered low class, thieving scum by many people, and to be called a gypsey or be told you live in a caravan is still quite a sizable insult now because of its connotations. In essence when we call chavs 'pikeys' we are calling them poor and associating them to other stereotypes of travellers, ironically most of which they hold themselves. Thus it is little wonder that they never call themselves pikeys and to call anyone a pikey to their face is a great insult and liable to land you with a bruised jaw if you say it directly to a chav.
::Well I also come from South East England and I don't think the two words are synonymous at all. Both are stereotypic insults, but "pikey" still carries the idea that the person is a traveller, whereas "chav" can be used against anyone working-class.Itsmejudith 22:26, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pikeys