Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Guitarists/Archive 2

message: Hey everyone, just letting you know that personal circumstances have necessitated an extended absence from Wikipedia for me.  I will not be able to participate in this WikiProject during that time.  I trust that consensus will continue to rule this excellent project, and that you will continue the work of improving our guitarist articles.  --Aguerriero (talk) 14:39, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended absense 

message: An Admin unfamiliar with the project has nominated ou template-Template:Guitarist infobox for deletion. I have added a vote to keep it...more would help. Anger22 11:34, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Notice to project members

message: I was just woundering being a new member, where can members go to to have a general chat about themselves or other stuff, becuase most posts on this disscussion board seem important. cheers 
--Funkinmonks 22:52, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There isn't one. Project talk pages are for project issues only. Article talk pages are for discussing the articles(and not the subjects about which they're written) And by Wikipedia policy WP:NOT Section 1.6 - Wikipedia is not a blog, webspace provider, or social networking site. Hope that helps. Anger22 01:02, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey Funkinmonks. If ya wanna talk casually about the guitar, then leave a comment on my talk page. I don't see why personal talk pages can't resemble blogs.--Kevin 03:01, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The reason why "personal" talk pages can't resemble blogs is because it's against Wikipedia policy, in particular, WP:NOT#What your user page is not, which explicitly says, "Your user page is not a personal homepage, nor is it a blog."  If you want to talk about guitars in order to help improve Wikipedia articles, that's fine; if you just want to talk about guitars for fun, that's really not ok.  Just so ya know.  Xtifr tälk 03:39, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hey All 

message: All, Anger22 has started a discussion at our infobox talk page about possible changes.  I think this is a great idea to really set our infobox apart from the generic musician infobox.  Please comment if you are interested. --Aguerriero (talk) 15:00, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox discussion 

message: I have marked the article Eric Clapton as needing attention, and am also notifying The Beatles WikiProject because they have their banner on that article as well.  Recently someone from the good article project came through and left a note that the Eric Clapton article doesn't use enough inline citations for an article its size.  They are apparently reevaluating all of the GA articles and this article's GA status could be revoked if that issue isn't fixed.  I will try to look at it, but I am also trying to get to John Frusciante and Eddie Van Halen.  If anyone can help out, it would be appreciated.  Basically we need to convert citations that are just sitting at the bottom of the article to the footnote style.  See WP:FOOT for more info. --Aguerriero (talk) 14:46, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Slowhand 

message: There is now a WikiProject Guitarists Peer review department.  You can post and respond to requests there - please keep it on your watchlist if you are interested. Eventually, I hope to develop a method to funnel review requests for guitarist articles from the main Peer review page to our project page.  It seems that the more organized WikiProjects (which we are one of) are going in that direction.  --Aguerriero (talk) 21:22, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Watchlisted...good idea! Anger22 15:14, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Peer review 

message: Hello. The WikiProject Council is currently in the process of developing a master directory of the existing WikiProjects to replace and update the existing Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory.  These WikiProjects are of vital importance in helping wikipedia achieve its goal of becoming truly encyclopedic. Please review the following pages: 
*User:Badbilltucker/Culture Directory, 
*User:Badbilltucker/Culture Directory 2, 
*User:Badbilltucker/Philosophy and religion Directory, 
*User:Badbilltucker/Sports Directory, 
*User:Badbilltucker/Geographical Directory, 
*User:Badbilltucker/Geographical Directory/United States, (note: This page will be retitled to more accurately reflect its contents)
*User:Badbilltucker/History and society directory, and
*User:Badbilltucker/Science directory
and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory.
The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. 
It is my hope to have the existing directory replaced by the updated and corrected version of the directory above by November 1. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 21:28, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry if you tried to update it before, and the corrections were gone. I have now put the new draft in the old directory pages, so the links should work better. My apologies for any confusion this may have caused you. B2T2 00:17, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Project Directory 

message: I have revamped the page for the Guitar equipment task force and leveraged most of Imoeng's fine work (props!) into a task force page.  If you are interested in working on guitar equipment articles (guitars, amps, effects, etc.), visit the page and add your name.  There is a special template for guitars, as well as a special userbox, categories, and so on.  We still need a template for amps and effects, if anyone is so-inclined.  
Thanks to Anger22, many equipment articles have already been tagged to place them in :Category:Guitar equipment task force articles.  If you want, you can jump into that category and start working on articles, or search around to find untagged equipment articles. --Aguerriero (talk) 21:13, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Task forces 

message: Hey guys, a lot of work needs to be done on various lists of guitarist to get them up to similar standards as List of Telecaster players, which I nominated for Featured List status.  I created a new subcategory of :Category:Lists of musicians by instrument called :Category:Lists of guitarists, where we can place all lists we find and start working on them.  Some possible tasks, if anyone is interested:
* There is now List of guitarists by genre, but there also exists a few lists of just one genre.  We should decide if we want one big list, or separate articles for each genre.
* List of guitarists is up for deletion, but it looks like the consensus is going to be to keep.  At any rate, the list needs attention.
* If anyone finds other lists of guitarists, please place them in the new subcategory.
That's all for now! --Aguerriero (talk) 17:48, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Since we're talking lists...here's a POV pushing, uncited gem that Wikipedia could probably do without: List of notable rock guitar soloists. I am surprised this article even exists. If the generic "lists" are going to survive their AfD's...it's a safe bet that if this one gets AfD'd it'll go away pretty quick. Thoughts? Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 18:57, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Stuck a +cat on List of lead guitarists. Probably a redundant list. Maybe? Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 20:29, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ugh.  Just ugh.  List of notable rock guitar soloists really needs to go away.  List of lead guitarists seems worthwhile. --Aguerriero (talk) 20:36, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, in case you were wondering, there is also List of rhythm guitarists, which I have also placed in the new subcategory. --Aguerriero (talk) 20:41, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lists! 

message: If anyone has time, we really need to go through :Category:Guitarist stubs and figure out what's in there.  There are a couple of subcategories per country; we need to figure out if more would be useful.  Also, I noticed that a lot of the articles in there are really bad - some of them are nonsense, or hoaxes, or aren't guitarists at all.  For vanity pages where some local guitarist made a page for himself, it can be speedy deleted.  Either tag it with  or make a list here and I will delete them. For non-guitarist articles, we need to put them with the correct stub.  A lot of them are not in any categories, not tagged with our project banner, all kinds of problems. Anyone want to work on this? --Aguerriero (talk) 02:50, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure, I'll try to take a look at some soon.  Note: if the article is about a living person, you should add  to the talk page along with the project banner.  Xtifr tälk 07:12, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, good idea.  Isn't there a bot that does that?  I can't remember who was running it, but I thought there was a bot that scanned for articles in :Category:Living people and placed that banner on its talk page. --Aguerriero (talk) 18:26, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There was a bot, but it doesn't seem to be running any more.  Maybe it was just done as a one-time thing.  I'm pretty sure it was one of kingboyk's bots.  Anyway, a lot of stubs don't have the category, which is something else to fix  Also, it's good to add :Category:Date of birth missing if it is, or "Category:YYYY births" if it's not (e.g. :Category:1980 births).  -- Xtifr tälk 00:21, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Whoops, that's supposed to be :Category:Year of birth missing; the DOB missing is for articles where the year is specified but not the day.  Xtifr tälk 00:27, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Gotcha.  I have been looking through the A's and there are TONS of articles that are no more than "So-and-so is the guitarist from such-and-such band." and then a stub template.  Any opinion on whether these are desirable? --Aguerriero (talk) 01:50, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Opinions differ.  I'm probably overly-generous with such stubs myself.  From what I've seen at AfD discussions, a merge to the band article is probably more appropriate.  On the other hand, if it mentions more than one band, or solo work, then it should probably be kept.  If you really want to get fancy, you can always check google or allmusic guide and see if you can find some information to expand the stub a little, too.  (Just remember, no cut-and-paste copyright violations, please.)  Depends on how much time you want to spend on a single stub, I suppose.  Sometimes I get fancy, sometimes I just categorize, tag, and move on. :)  Xtifr tälk 08:23, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have been spending some time on each one.  Copyedit, category, stub, project banner, so on.  If they are obviously bollocks and don't assert notability, I delete them on site.  And since I have your attention, please change the pink color for the infobox.  I promise I'll never say another word about the infobox if you just change the color.  I implore you. --Aguerriero (talk) 18:22, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stubs 

message: Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 17:52, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia Day Awards 

message: That makes absolutely no sense. How did this get past us? Anyway, that's fixed now.
Dropal 21:07, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  We didn't have "Guitar" Tagged as relating to us? 

message: The article for the Heritage Guitars company has been nominated for deletion. This is the company formed by ex-employees of Gibson after Gibson moved from Michigan to Tennessee. I added two book sources to improve the article in an effort to keep it. The debate seems likely to end with a keep or no consensus outcome (the latter outcome results in a default keep). However, I would like to see the article improved with more sources, if such can be found. One of the persons involved in the debate has asked if there are any reviews of the guitars in magazines that could be used as sources. I don't have access to such magazines, but I'm certain that many of you involved in the project do. Is anyone here able to find one or more reviews of Heritage guitars in a magazine and add this as a source in the article? Thank you. Nick Graves 16:22, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Heritage Guitars deletion nomination

message: While the Heritage Guitars article is in more immediate danger and therefore needs more urgent attention, the article on the Guild Guitar Company is probably in even worse shape than the Heritage article was before it was nominated for deletion.  It has no structure.  I wanted to improve the structure but I couldn't find one to start with.
Perhaps, once the significance of the Heritage article has been established, we could take a look at the Guild article? Respectfully, SamBlob 00:31, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Carvin A&I article is also tagged for "non-notability". Like the others it reads like a "quick fix flyer ad" but can surely be turned around with some creative prose and a few Tony Bacon(or others) refs to seam it all in. Anger22  (Talk 2 22) 00:41, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Guild Guitars article even worse than Heritage! 

message: I added a slot in the Guitarist Infobox to accomodate a "solo/guitar sample". This had been discussed before as a "infobox perk" to try and show a sample of the subject guitarist's "signature sound or style". As a test I've uploaded a 29 second solo sound byte for Mark Knopfler and added it to the infobox in that article. If anyone has time could they stop by that article and see the new addition and make some comment either back here or in the appropriate infobox discussion page. Thanks! Anger22  (Talk 2 22) 14:48, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Would the sample be considered breach of copyright, or would fair use cover it? Respectfully, SamBlob 00:05, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Many music related articles contain sound bytes. Look at Pink Floyd or Rush or etc... Wiki provides a licensing tag for it as well.(you can see it in the sample I uploaded) The key is to keep it under 30 seconds(more than 30 and you get into copyvio area) There are a number of different templates for the audio samples as well. I used the  simply for size reasons. There is another...  template but it is much larger and I didn't want to clutter up the box too much. The whole purpose of the audio bit...from earlier discussions...was to make the infobox more "guitarist" flavoured by allowing the opportunity to provide a short audio sample of the guitarists particular style...mainly from a notable/signature solo the guitarist may be well known for. I used a small freeware audio software to chop Knopfler's signature riff from his Sultans of Swing solo and then added a bit a fade in/fade out to keep it clean n neat. Choosing which solo to sample might be a bone of contention with some people depending on which solo they feel is the guitarists most notable. Example...I may sample the first 2 hand tapping bit from Van Halen's Eruption solo. as his most indentified style. But someone else may disagree and want to put in Spanish Fly or Little Guitars or his solo from Michael Jackson's Beai It...ICK!. I am not for the idea of using more than one so 'byte' selection will have to be democratic. But I feel it adds something new/fresh that other infoboxes don't offer. Thoughts? Anger22  (Talk 2 22) 00:22, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Test new addition to infobox

message: I've taken it upon myself to get involved in licking the much neglected Guitar Portal into shape. If anyone wants to join in, that's great. If you're busy elsewhere, suggestions for the following would be particularly appreciated:
*Anniversaries - these are organised by month. Previously only August was filled in. I've done a bit for January and February but the rest of the year is blank. Some variation from the theme of X was born, Y died would be nice.
*Selected articles
*Selected pictures - these are particularly tricky, because many of the guitar-related images have fair-use terms that mean they should really only be used on the directly related article.
*Did you know items
*Quotes - after six months, the existing Hendrix quote is getting a bit stale
If you don't have the time or inclination to get involved in editing the portal (it's not quite as straightforward as a normal article), you can drop your suggestions here or on my talk page, and I'll do the grunt work. Thanks, CiaranG 19:27, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Guitar Portal 

message: This is on a bassist; plan on getting to GA and would appreciate it if some people would leave some comments on the peer review or here, to help improve the article to meet GA standards. Thanks M3tal H3ad 03:32, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Tom Araya]]

message: We should establish some kind of consensus for guitar articles.  Articles about a guitar often include a section listing prominent players of that instrument.  I have noticed many instances wherein an otherwise notable guitarist is listed in the article for a guitar he or she is at best peripherally recognized as playing, and at worst, may have picked one up in a guitar store once when he or she was twelve.  While it is doubtless that some guitarists become closely identified with their instruments of choice, many others are recognized for the sheer variety of their taste.  We should agree on criteria for listing a guitarist as a "notable Brand-X player."  JSC ltd 21:25, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable "Brand-X Guitar" Players 

message: Hi, maybe you find this script useful for your project? Best regards, BNutzer 08:27, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Assessment script 

message: I've just started an article on Schrammelmusik, an Austrian folk style typically played by a small ensenble with a Kontragitarre. I translated it "contra-guitar" but am wondering whether there is a better description in English. There's a picture of the instrument and an article at German Wikipedia. -- Rob C (Alarob) 17:56, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Double-necked contra-guitar? 

message: From what I can tell, Guitar, Acoustic guitar, Electric guitar, Bass guitar, and likely all of the other articles have no sound files to show users how these instruments sound.  If someone in the project is interested, it may be worthwhile to record some of these instruments (non-copyrighted music, remember) and add it to the articles.  ShadowHalo 21:04, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Audio 

message: Hi guys. Could someone revert History of the classical guitar back to its original form? Much content has been removed, older versions just seem more complete. I attempted a small cleanup but reverting back seems like a better solution. Let me know.
Thr3ddy 22:18, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  History of the classical guitar 

message: Hi.  Is there any interest in adding a "needs-infobox" parameter to  ? —Viriditas | Talk 04:29, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That parameter already exists in , which should appear on all biographical articles, including guitarists.  And both the guitarist infobox and the musical artist infobox are on the list of recommended Biographical infoboxes which that template links to.  Xtifr tälk 14:47, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, then how do you populate :Category:Guitar infobox task force articles (which doesn't appear to be linked to Wikipedia:WikiProject Guitarists/Infobox task force)? Wouldn't you want a list of :Category:Guitarist articles needing infoboxes? How do you determine this? I just added the WPBiography tag to a guitarist article lacking an infobox.  I flagged needs-infobox and the musicians workgroup, which categorized the article under :Category:Musicians work group articles needing infoboxes. Is someone from the Guitarist infobox task force going to be looking through this cat?  —Viriditas | Talk 19:29, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Needs-infobox 

message: I started an article on Johnny A. today (can't believe there was not already and article there. I would be happy to have people review and improve it. Gekritzl 00:14, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Johnny A.

message: I've got a question, in affiliation(s) in the infobox, should you only list the bands which the guitarist has been in as a member, or also made guest appearances in? I've noticed there's some confusion about this. Grinder0-0 10:16, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Since this this question really pertains to musicians in general, and not just guitarists, I think it would be better asked at WP:MUSICIAN.  It might get a wider audience there too.  My feeling is that they'd have to be awfully notable and frequent guest appearances to justify.  Xtifr tälk 14:56, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll do that, thanks. Grinder0-0 17:50, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Affiliations 

message: I ran into an inter-WikiProject dispute involving the Infoboxes Template:Infobox musical artist and Template:Guitarist infobox.  As User:156.34.215.139 informed me, WikiProject Guitarists has resisted updating to the otherwise common Template:Infobox musical artist.  Can the Infobox requirements of WikiProject Musicians and WikiProject Guitarists be deconflicted in such a way as to permit a common Infobox template across multiple WikiProjects in the music field (excepting Theatre)?  Please advise. - B.C.Schmerker 05:00, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, they can. --Spike Wilbury 05:23, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The current status is really that both projects accept both templates.  In fact, the colors in the musical artist box were changed largely owing to feedback from the guitarist project, although many musicians project members and third parties endorsed the changes.  It's possible that the guitarist infobox could be deprecated, but a few  people still seem to prefer it, and most of us don't really care.  (I'll continue to support the guitarist infobox as long as there are people willing to speak up for it, but certainly don't want it kept on my behalf.)  So really, what you have is not an inter-project conflict, but a simple editorial dispute.  My suggestion is to discuss it on the talk page of the article in question, and see what other editors of that article think.  That's how Frank Zappa's infobox was finally settled, for example.  And tell User:156.34.215.139 not to presume to speak for entire projects.  Xtifr tälk 20:08, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: All notes read.  Sounds time for me to start a new alpha Infobox for deconfliction purposes.  I'll request feedback at a later date as to a background color scheme. - B.C.Schmerker 04:58, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  As Xtifr said, it is just an editorial matter.  I see no reason whatever not to combine the two and depreciate one.  Most of the participants in this WikiProject just edit articles and forgo the project discussions.  The most vocal opponents of the original Infobox musical artist were me (I am the founder of this project, formerly known as Aguerriero/Ars Scriptor) and Anger22.  My main problem was that the color was fugly for instrumentalists, and that some editors were going round replacing the templates without even discussing it here.  That is all water under the bridge.  Anger22 had similar concerns, plus he had added one or two additional fields to the Guitarist infobox that didn't end up being used much.  He has been inactive lately but he may want to come in here and comment on the issue.  As I said, I have no interest in debating it further, as I am here to write articles.  Deconflict at will. --Spike Wilbury 05:07, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inter-WikiProject conflict 

message: Does anyone want to volunteer to go through the member list and remove inactive participants per the instructions at the bottom of the page? --Spike Wilbury 14:31, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Member list