Talk:Vito Rizzuto

message: The name the Sixth Family is not given by the authorities to the Rizzuto clan, but is a journalistic invention. - Mafia Expert 17:02, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Sixth Family

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thread_title: File:VitoRizzuto.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I check pages listed in :Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of :Vito Rizzuto's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "globe":
From Rocco Sollecito: 
From Federal Bureau of Investigation: 
From Commisso 'ndrina: 
From Salvatore Calautti: 
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 05:18, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: . It was from Rocco Sollecito. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 16:04, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orphaned references in [[:Vito Rizzuto]] 

message: Ok. I've taken this here. When it comes to dual nationality. Italian citizenship could be lost: By a man or woman, being of competent legal age (21 years if before 10 March 1975 or 18 years if after 9 March 1975), who of his or her own volition naturalised in another country and resided outside of Italy. Vito Rizzuto immigrated prior to 1975. And turned 21 prior to 1975 as well. He does not hold an Italian citizenship.
Nationality: is the state of being part of a nation whether by birth or naturalization
Emphasis on 'naturalization'. 
Why is Vito Rizzuto referred to as 
Italian in the nationality column, despite not having Italian citizenship, 
While John Abate, of italian descent is only referred to as Canadian. Despite both being Italian Canadians regardless of Birthplace. Jack Morales Garcia (talk) 08:03, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Nationality does not have to do with citizenship. Nationality seems to relate to place of birth MOS:CONTEXTBIO. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 13:55, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

text: Comment The first paragraph of CONTEXTBIO:  If someone was a citizen of Canada, who was primarily notable for his activity in Canada, then Canadian would seem to be the most apt descriptor that person. If someone was a citizen of both countries, and the activities for which they were notable spanned both countries, mentioning both seems appropriate. For the avoidance of doubt, I am not suggesting which of these approaches is the correct one in this circumstance, I'm just offering some advice about community norms, and do not consider myself to be INVOLVED in this matter. GirthSummit (blether) 14:26, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

text: It is not known if his citizenship was rescinded/or reobtained. Outside of that, with the note provided by Girth Summit, it can be said that being Italian is part of what makes Rizzuto notable (ie being part of the Italian mafia in Montreal). Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 15:03, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

text: , I'm still not clear on what changes you are proposing. Is it the lead, or the info box, or both, that you think need to change? What do you think they should say exactly? GirthSummit (blether) 09:21, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

text: I do not see any convincing argument or sourced basis for the change. Maybe time to drop the stick. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 15:02, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

text: Nationality is generally determined by country of origin. However, as you stated, "No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality." Sure. So do we have any sources where Vito has stated that he feels 'more' Canadian over Italian or now identifies with having Canadian nationality? I don't think such a source exists—if it does please provide it. Either "Italian" should be in the "nationality" field, or it should be left blank ("Canadian" in both "nationality" and "citizenship" fields are redundant and against MoS). I will lean more on keeping "Italian" in the "nationality" field based on this. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 17:27, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

text: Well, you don't know if he held Italian citizenship after 1991 or not. And we are certainly not removing "Canadian" from the citizenship field because it is soured that he obtained Canadian citizenship and since it is a different nation than his origin nation, that field is fully warranted. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 17:43, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

text: Are you trying to say that nationality and citizenship are the same thing? They're not. 1. Either nationality stays as Italian. 2. Nationality is removed altogether. 3. A source is found that states that Vito identified as a Canadian national fully and then perhaps Canadian can be left in both nationality and citizenship fields (very unlikely). As I said, I am most in favour of option 1. because there is no sourced basis that, for this case with Vito, that he absolved his nationality 'feeling' from his place of birth/origin, Italy. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 17:57, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

text: "Everyone has the right to a nationality," and "No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality" That sounds like a feeling, or rather I should say, national identity, which is up to the individual. That is kind of getting off topic anyway, especially since there are no sources of Vito stating his national identity. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 18:05, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

text: Bottom line: Rizzuto was born in Italy, therefore by default is an Italian national unless there is a source that states he does not identify with being Italian. Then, he legally obtained Canadian citizenship, which is separate from nationality. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 18:08, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

text: This failed, but may be of interest. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 18:10, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

text: Sounds like WP:OR with no sources. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 18:20, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nationality 

message: I've been asked to take a look at this as it's prepared for GANR by . Without doing a source review, I've got a few comments:
*The lead seems to have more detail on Rizzuto's family than himself
* is a run-on sentence, and will more clearly convey the information if broken up/rephrased
* - this first refers to the preceding sentence talking about one son, then switches to referring back to several sentences earlier talking about his 3 children. This is technically incorrect, as spatial references should be uniform (referring back to the same part) if the subject is not being made clear (i.e. "and the other child is..." would be suitable, though a better phrasing would be a general improvement here).
*The speculation of assassination should be made more clearly just speculation, if this is indeed the case: the tone of how unconfirmed but common rumors are handled should reflect the tone in the RS
:Kingsif (talk) 19:42, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pre-review comments