Talk:M3 Stuart

message: Wasn't its official name Light Tank M3? Oberiko 14:28, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably, I meant to distinguish that the USA never officially called it StuartGraemeLeggett 15:23, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Given that, why is the page titled "Stuart tank"...?  Trekphiler 15:47, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Because it is wikipedia policy to name the article after the best-known or most popular name, and 'Stuart' is a lot better-known than "M3" or "M5"....plus 'Stuart' covers the whole series nicely. DMorpheus 19:56, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

text: No, Stuart was the name the British gave M3/M5 light tanks in their service. Since they're U.S. vehicles, this doesn't make it an official name.  TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura  02:38, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Never given an official name?

message: :Image:TankGirlsTank.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot (talk) 09:40, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:TankGirlsTank.jpg

message: I feel that this entry knocks the Stuart too much and strayed from neutrality. M3/M5 series were LIGHT tanks, and as such will always be inferior when compared to mediums and heavies which quite literally outclassed them (what do you expect?). M3/M5 is a SCOUT tank and it was, IMHO, a superb fighter in the recon battle. 
-Chin Cheng-chuan  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.225.71.187 (talk) 21:05, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. Stuarts were not the best but the reality is they WORKED during the war. Crews did everything from hunt enemy tanks and raise a ruckus with enemy infantry and supplies to charge positions other tanks stayed away from because they could not get there fast and safe. A better tank was needed; but the M3 and M5 lights were not USELESS!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.182.175.139 (talk) 19:46, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Unsatisfactory Light Tank?

message: The article at present concentrates on the military history of the Stuart Tank. What happened to them after WW2?  Some obviously were recycled into other armies.  Did they all end up as scrap metal?  I know at least one that was put to productive use in agriculture.  Is there anyone else with examples of post war life of the Stuart?  Gamagr (talk) 03:12, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There's a guy in Virginia who keeps one parked in his driveway.  Surplus WWII hardware was plentiful and cheap when the Army unloaded it, but most of it was bought for scrap. Solicitr (talk) 20:12, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  What happened to these 25,000 tanks 

message: This weak tank remains in use today, by Brazilian Army today, with a new diesel engine.Agre22 (talk) 03:33, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Remains in use in Brazil

message: "underpowered, undercrewed, and possessed "? Undercrewed? First off, I doubt "undercrewed" is even a word, not to mention it's very PC. Second, it implies Soviet tanks didn't have enough manpower, which I seriously doubt. Third, it's unclear, per point 2. I deleted, hoping somebody can clarify what it was meant to say, which I presume has something to do with design & number of crewmen (2-3 man tanks, as opposed to 4-man, & 1-2 man turret, as opposed to 3), which has nothing to do with "undermanning", a quite separate issue (namely, a 4 man tank going out with only 3, for lack of manpower).
In addition, "However, the heavier M4 mediums were eventually brought to overcome heavily entrenched positions, though until the end of the war, supplemented the Stuarts along with" is not a complete thought, & I have no idea what was intended...   TREKphiler hit me ♠  13:42 & 13:47, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Going under

message: The banner color photograph of this vehicle is a fine study but please crop out the eye catching person wearing red in the lower right of the image !Resolution Man (talk) 17:34, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photo Improvement 

message: "However, the M3 was superior to early-war Soviet light tanks such as the T-60, which were often underpowered and possessed even lighter armament than the Stuart."
In the section on operational history gives the impression that the M3 was the best tank the Soviets had when invaded by Germany despite the fact that their T-34 and KV-1 were the heaviest and most powerful tanks in the world at the time. This statement should be properly qualified and explained.--Senor Freebie (talk) 02:38, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Poorly qualified statement 

message: Notice that an editor moved the British Army to first again: The British were the first to use the American M4 Sherman tank in combat; the British were the first to use the M3 Stuart light tank in combat.  Now, for the third first, an editor has moved the M3 Stuart to "the Stuart was used by the British during Lend-Lease..." in the first portion of the article.  The American's first tank vs tank battle of WWII has been relegated to 3rd place.
The M3 Stuart was and American tank.  It was designed and built in the US.  It was given to the British (under lend lease) to help them out during the war.  The British already have their Firsts with the Sherman and Stuart tanks by being the first to use them in WWII (first use in combat).  The way the article was first written, the Americans had their first tank engagement in this tank!  It's an American Tank, with Americans fighting in it for the first time, the American Stuart light tank at least deserves top billing as the article was first written (instead of 3rd place under the British!).
After all, whats more important; the Stuart was as a lend lease vehicle, or it fought America's First tank battle!
America's first tank fight should be written where it was in the beginning...at the start of the article.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.93.21.110 (talk) 18:10, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This isn't an American encyclopedia or a list of "American firsts". The M3 was first used in action by Brits. That makes M3's first combat action a Brit action. First American use, therefore, is much less significant. Get over it.  TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura  02:27, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The US Stuart, Grant/Lee, and Sherman tanks were all first used in action by the British Army in North Africa.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.173.13 (talk) 11:08, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Britain Tops America In Firsts?

message: The article is about the M3 Stuart light tank, and it's history, which includes it's combat record.  Neary all US tanks; to include the M2 light tanks, M3 Lee tanks, and the famous M4 Sherman medium tanks were lend-leased to the allies in WWII.  Lend Lease is not particular to the M3 Stuart.  Lend lease should be mentioned, as it is in the article, but it certainly is not unique to the Stuart.  It's first combat action against enemy tanks during WWII is distinctive to the tank.  No other US tank can claim that title.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.49.142.245 (talk) 21:42, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This isn't an American encyclopedia or a list of "American firsts". The M3 was first used in action by Brits. That makes M3's first combat action a Brit action. First American use, therefore, is much less significant. Get over it.  TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura  22:27, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: M3 Stuart's combat record or Lend Lease

message: For this Veteran's Day, I decided to again explore the field of military history, and while not particularly interested in the M3 Stuart, nor WWII for that matter, as I'm past that stage, I was drawn to two nearly exact responses from an apparently same Wikipedia editor.  Although the editor answered the "discussion topic" both times, they both contradicted the "discussion topic."  The editor rightly  replied that the Wikipedia Encyclopedia "isn't an American encyclopedia..." then in the same line implies it's a British one! With his reply "...first...by the Brits...", followed by another example, etc.  
Wikipedia's NPOV (Neutral Point Of View) clearly states that "Representing fairly, proportionately,and as far as possible without bias is the non-negotiable and expected policies from all articles and editors."  While the editor in question may have bordered violating that policy, he probably crossed the line when he stated "...First American use...is much less significant."   Downgrading Americans during their participation in WWII is cleary a biased statement.  Although said editor has a right to his opinions, he should be more objective (neutral/unbiased) to the articles and discussion pages within the scope of Wikipedia.
Wikipedia's Vandalism policy is any addition, removal, or change made in a deliberate attempt to compromise the integrity of Wikipedia.  Given the precedent of the two aforementioned discussions, I proceeded to the history of the discussion talk page, and read the notes by the same editor; which was removed and stated, "...needless verbiage with no apparent objective..."  with an added "Vandalism?"
Reading the topic that the editor removed, entitled "The Article is about the M3/M5 Stuart Tank", appeared to be more professionally written than any previous ones, and to some extent supplied some explanations.  There is no need for me to place it back onto this page, readers can see  it on the history back-pages;  and it is addressing the same argument about the Stuart tank.  The issue here was that that particular writing was not vandalism, the editor's NPOV caused him to escalate into committing vandalism when he labelled it vandalism (a defense measure) and then removed it without due cause.
A far lessor violation would have been to respond to it (for a third time) with his same old line..."Get over it!"
Have a good & safe Veteran's Day!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.104.160.36 (talk) 17:22, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Since I removed the previous commentary with no suggestion of vandalism, & since this appears to be the same IP trying to make a point as the last 3 times, I reiterate: this is not an all-American project, so mention of "first American combat use" in itself does not merit mention. Moreover, talk pages are for comment on improving the page, not merely rambling (see not a forum), which the removed post seemed only to be. Calling that vandalism is both mistaken & unjustified, plus contrary to assuming good faith. Nor is repeatedly going over the same ground & ignoring the responses you do get, which you've been doing, going to endear you to anyone. Moreover, anyone who genuinely believes the previous removed content is, in fact, worth restoring is perfectly free to do so.  TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura  07:48, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Suggest you look again. Those are 2 separate instances.  TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura  04:35, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Wikipedia]] [[Policies]] Concerning [[NPOV]] & [[Vandalism]]

message: The title above the photograph of a light tank in the introduction is, "Light Tank M3A3 (Stuart V)” while the caption below the photograph identifies it as an M5A1. This really should be resolved one way or the other. <B>☺</B> Dick Kimball (talk) 15:59, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a surprisingly difficult issue. There's not enough differentiation to have a separate M5 Stuart article. There aren't any good, large photographs on Commons of an M3. Renaming the article to M3/M5 Stuart or M-Series Light Tank would be ugly. Rewriting the caption to "An M3-derived M5A1 Stuart" would be confusing. The article can't really be moved to M5 Stuart. What the article needs is a good large photo of an M3. -Ashley Pomeroy (talk) 18:16, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Identification of Photograph 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I put the quote back into the article but put it as a footnote as a result of it being shortened for the article. I actually spent a bit of time going through .pdf files of ww2 after-action reports and this struck me as a piece of primary evidence at the time that would go well with the article. It took me a while to transcribe the quote into a text form. I think it's important but I'm happy to leave it as a footnote.
--One Salient Oversight (talk) 08:12, 23 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm disinclined to the inclusion of quotes, fn or no, unless they say something that cannot be said as well or better in summary, which is why I deleted most of it. I would from the fn, too; it's not uninteresting, but...  TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura 14:27, 23 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd also like to point out that the quote is what historians would call a primary source. Thus I would say that it's more valuable than the citations of Zaloga and others who write about the Tank. Moreover, the quote appears not to have been noticed yet by historians. This article and Zaloga have said that the 37mm Gun was bad, but this is an actual quote from an actual commander of a light tank battalion. The link to the primary source is good, but to be honest the copy of the report that was turned into a pdf is problematic to read (there are a lot of deteriorated pages that are difficult to read). In short I would argue that the quote be in the footnotes because a) it is a good primary source, b) because the orginal source, while on the internet, is hard to read, and c) it would be of interest to military historians on the matter. --One Salient Oversight (talk) 09:35, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: That it's a primary source falls afoul of WP opposition to citing from them (which troubles me less). That the quote itself adds nothing more material is what troubles me. If this was a document repository or a library, or something, I might agree with you. It's not. I'm not unsympathetic to your view. My own "clipping" of what seems germane, to support Zaloga et al., is what I meant about "material". The rest of the report is material to the unit involved, not to the M3 itself. If you can find (or create!) a page for that unit, I'll be the first to say that report should be quoted, for the reasons you've mentioned.  TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura 12:01, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I have been creating pages for various ww2 Tank Battalions so I might end up doing that in the future. I've seen quotes on other ww2 related pages that are similar in nature to the one which I had, but I'm not going to contest it because having the link to the quote is a victory. Having the quote in the article would've been better imo but I'm not going to start an edit war over this. Besides I've checked your profile and you seem pretty knowledgeable about editing ww2 related articles so I'll just have to assume good faith, which is fine. Thanks for the dialogue. --One Salient Oversight (talk) 00:51, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quote from after action report 

message: I think we have enough photos of M3 Stuarts that its time to debate the best one for the lead pic. So I present the best various options I can find. 
File:M5A1 "Stuart" Light Tank.jpg|current image. Good lighting, hull machine gun present, back of tank cut off, tinwork missing
File:Stuart M3A1 no T37765 pic-003.JPG|shows what the tank can do, decent lighting, hull machine gun present, tank facing out of the article
File:Normandy 2013 (9212193611).jpg|good profile but crew blocking parts of the tank
File:M3A1 Stuart Tank.jpg|decent 3/4 view. Machine guns missing
File:Легкий танк «Стюарт» M3.jpg|decent 3/4 view. Machine guns missing
File:ITEM EXTERNO TANQUE EXPEDICIONARIO.jpg|decent 3/4 view. Machine guns look aftermarket, fence in the way
File:Stuart tank 2.JPG|decent 3/4 view needs recropping for centering and Machine guns missing
File:M3A3 Meritorious Tank.jpg|Meritorious, may have some aftermarket mods. Facing out of the article
File:Ejercito de recife.jpg|decent 3/4 view rather a tight crop, machine gun missing
File:Stuart m5a1 cfb borden 1 2007.jpg|decent 3/4 view  machine gun missing
File:M5A1 in the Kubinka Museum 01.jpg|decent 3/4 view not the cleanest background
File:M3A1 Stuart III ‘T37765’ “Clementine” (44431850175).jpg|near perfect profile of T37765 if we want profile. aerial present but cut off
File:M3A1 Stuart (T37765) front-left 2017 Bovington.jpg|decent 3/4 view of T37765 (best of the static in museum) aerial present but cut off
File:M3A1 Stuart (T37765) tankfest 2021.JPG|decent 3/4 view of T37765 lighting a bit harsh. aerial present but cut off
Any opinions?©Geni (talk) 19:36, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: A contemporaneous one rather than a restored or museum one would be better. GraemeLeggett (talk) 21:08, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: the only colour pics we have of the tanks in service are :File:M3A1 Light Tank.jpg which suffers from size and much of the tank being hidden by mud and :File:15mayo2002-M3-Stuart.jpg which is potato quality.©Geni (talk) 21:37, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Choice of lead pic