Talk:Mountza

message: Whose hand is this? I can read a long and adventurous life ahead of you... ;-)  Politis 11:54, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: See my awards bre moirologistra. :-) NikoSilver 12:19, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Hand reading

message: Can't it also mean "go back to your mother's womb"? Badagnani (talk) 01:47, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There isn't such an (exact) expression in Greek, but we got numerous other relative ones. It's equivalent to the finger, only apart from insulting, it's also derogatory for the recipient. NikoSilver 11:41, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Another difference is that "Moutza" has no sexual meaning at all (contrary to "the finger", which may mean "fuck you"). 77.49.88.140 (talk) 07:05, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other meaning 

message: I've deleted the following statement from the article:
In Great Britain the same form of the one hand palm is often used simply as a form of salute to car drivers for allowing passage across them; it is not an insult in any way but an acknowledgment of appreciation.
There is no citation given for this and, in my experience, any gesture of raising the hand, palm forwards, is taken to mean "thank you" in this sort of situation in the UK (or "hello" between two people passing in the street, for example).  The position of the fingers (spread or together) does not matter but such gestures are usually given with the hand in a relaxed position, rather than with the fingers widely spread as in the moutza. Dricherby (talk) 10:27, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use in Great Britain 

message: The v-sign is not just a lesser form. It also sometimes used as an ironic expression of the original meaning of the V-sign (usually followed by the spreading of the other fingers resulting in a full mountza). It is also used combined with the relatively common phrase "Anikitos malakas" (undefeatable/invincible wanker).--92.118.191.48 (talk) 00:46, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  The V-sign and other versions 

message: The origin listed in the article seems dubious; the reference appears to be to a blog post.  Does anyone have a more reliable source for this origin story?  If not, I suggest it be removed as a possible folk etymology. —Psychonaut (talk) 11:22, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin needs better sourcing 

message: I randomly stumbled onto this article, and was a little surprised by the quality of the content and referencing. 
* The first citation isn't really a reference, but is a link to a non-free advertisement, ostensibly showing the gesture, that asks the reader to essentially perform original research. The second is an op-ed from the Tribune by Greek-American John Kass. Neither is particularly acceptable as a source; the second could conceivably be used as a source for specific commentary by Kass, but simply being a columnist born to Greek immigrant parents does not make him a reliable source for any substantive claims.
* Also, as other editors have noted, the "sign in other cultures" section appears to be almost wholly original research, and as noted by them (and speaking from my own anecdotal experiences), some don't even appear to be remotely factual.
* The origin of the gesture, as described in the article, was originally sourced to a blog, and also amounts to original research. A good faith effort to ascertain whether it could be reliably sourced just showed me various people parroting said blog. And as an amateur classicist, I've certainly never read anything of the sort in any classical source, or in writings by classicists. Information on the Eleusinian Mysteries is rather sparse, and this isn't included in any of the few extant remarks from antiquity that I've seen.
I'm hoping that some of the editors here can hopefully insert some reliable references for the claims presented here. Because otherwise, the article would need to be extensively trimmed to remotely comply with basic policy and standards. Presumably, there are some reliable sources in Greek, which unfortunately I can't read. I certainly wasn't coming across anything of passable quality in English. Quinto Simmaco (talk) 18:31, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  Just stumbled upon this page and take issue with all of these problems as well. So I just wanted to make it known that I've added this article to my list of articles I'm vaguely qualified to dig up sources for (in this case I'm a Greek and a BIG linguist/cultural-history nerd). I'll hopefully put some work into it over this Covid quarantine. Skoulikomirmigotripa (talk) 22:28, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  WP:OR, dubious and little to no sourcing 

message: It makes no sense to give links to countries (as here: "In Armenia..." and "In Mexico...") if they are merely to general articles in Wikipedia about those countries. I was hoping that the links would be to photographs or, even better, videos of people in those countries making the gestures in question (THAT would be useful) but after clicking three links, I realized that the references are just to the countries.S. Valkemirer (talk) 04:21, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Useless cross-references