Talk:Cardinal Richelieu

message: In the arts and culture section, there are some weird file paths. This could be vandalism, or a honest mistake. Either way, it should be fixed. Noghiri (talk) 19:12, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I tried it, but failed either. Anybody else? Thijs 12:40 (CET), 15 jan 2006
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One thing I've noticed relating to the details of Richelieu here is the omission of his involvement in the founding of the One Hundred Associates, his patronage of Samuel de Champlain, the founder of Québec city, and the subsequent development of New France - and the continued existance of French Canada - as in part due to his actions.
Do people feel that this part of Richelieu's legacy should be detailed here?
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In keeping with the other Cardinal pages, shouldn't this be at Armand-Jean du Plessis Cardinal de Richelieu? RickK 06:52, 20 Dec 2003 (UTC)

text: I think it should stay here, as this is the name he's most commonly known by in English (by far). --Delirium 02:53, Jan 16, 2004 (UTC)
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Louis XIII had lovers? As far as I know, he had favourites, but I doubt he engaged into homosexual love. David.Monniaux 09:23, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)

text: The featuring of this article was arranged well beforehand. -- Emsworth 15:17, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

text: I agree as well, except that there is no need for a comma in such titles. -- Emsworth 15:50, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

text: Should we not then use "Armand Jean du Plessis, Cardinal et Duc de Richelieu"? -- Emsworth 17:24, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

text: In any case, it is "Cardinal de Richelieu". "Cardinal Richelieu" is just weird. Rama 18:04, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I also think RickK and John are right: it would make sense to have the "Cardinal Richelieu" usage as one that links to it, as it's not accurate and is inconsistent with other cardinals.Silverwhistle (talk) 22:06, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Errata, inconsistence between linked articles!

message: What about François du Tremblay? The Merriam-Webster entry 'éminence grise' says:
:Etymology: French, literally, gray eminence, nickname of Père Joseph (François du Tremblay) died 1638 French monk and diplomat, confidant of Cardinal Richelieu who was known as Éminence Rouge red eminence; from the colors of their respective habits
Kent Wang 04:31, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Éminence grise

message: It is common practice to mention the names of painters of portraits. One of the editors here has been known to delete them, or I would add them myself. It seems like essential information. Should ther reader have to click on the image to discover the painter's name? --Wetman 1 July 2005 23:15 (UTC)
:I agree with  that the name of the artist should be included in the captions. Otherwise, it appears to me, they are just pretty illustrations and not encyclopedic additions. Thank you, 24.47.173.120 (talk) 05:27, 24 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Addendum: Sorry - I thought I was logged in already. Wordreader (talk) 05:29, 24 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Painters' names in captions

message: Wouldn't it make sense to devote a short separate section to the portrayal of Richelieu in popular culture? Well, that's a personal opinion of a Russian for whom Dumas' legacy is much more actual than for an American, and of a fan of Monty Python, but anyway...
: The 'Pop Culture' section has been created. I note what appears to be a duplicate entry. Lines 1 and 16 both refer to the 1632 Ring of Fire series by Eric Flint. I leave it to someone else to make correction as I'm a 'newbie', and I'm reluctant to stick my finger in someone else's pie. Romaq 22:19, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Richelieu in popular culture?

message: While having a section of quotes from Richelieu is appropriate, it is inappropriate to put one at the top of the article, any such quotes must be cited, and they must be properly formatted.  Perhaps simply linking to Wikiquote is sufficient. Michaelbusch 20:00, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Famous Sayings

message: (Cut n pasted notes from Reference desk, which might give further hints Wetman 04:28, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Posthumous reputation

message: This article states that Dumas depicted Richelieu as avaricious and power hungry. The french version of it, however, describe the portrayal of Richelieu in Dumas' novel as "il le dépeint comme l'homme d'État par excellence, machiavélique et empli de sa mission gouvernementale (D'Artagnan devient lieutenant des mousquetaires grâce à Richelieu)" ("He depicts him as the ultimate statesman, machiavelian and utterly focused on his governmental mission (D'Artagnan becomes a Lieutenant of the Musketeers thanks to Richelieu)." Having read (admitedly a long time ago) the novel myself, the later depiction seems closer to the facts than the one given here.--65.94.14.92 08:51, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "machieavelian and utterly focused on his governmental mission" is very close to the "avaricious and power hungry" in terms of how one interprets it. Machievelian leader is a very ruthless type of leader, so I don't see the depictions as being very distinct. Perhaps machievelian is a better term and power hungry, but to me, at least, the terms are very closely related.--RossF18 (talk) 04:10, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: While the Cardinal can certainly be considered power hungry in the novel, from memory there is little to indicate he is personally avaricious.  The sentence also needs to distinguish clearly between the morally complex approach to his character in the novel to the often melodramatic one-sided villainy in the various film portrayals.210.84.17.220 (talk) 10:22, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: The Three Musketeers and Richelieu

message: As others have noted, the article's lacked in-line citations for a while. I've gone through and done a quick scrub on the historical side, but it will still need a bit of work on the legacy section.Hchc2009 (talk) 17:29, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  In-line citation... 

message: What kind of cardinal was Richelieu? Cardinal-bishop? Cardinal-priest? Cardinal-deacon? Which diocese / church / diaconate was he assigned in Italy?
Top.Squark (talk) 19:50, 3 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  What kind of cardinal? 

message: The last paragraph of the lede read:
:He is also a leading character in The Three Musketeers by Alexandre Dumas and its subsequent film adaptations, portrayed as a main antagonist, and a powerful ruler, even more powerful than the King himself, though events like the Day of the Dupes show that in fact he very much depended on the King's confidence to keep this power.
Here we have a connection between the cardinal's fictional power "more than the king" and a real-life event, the day of the Dupes. Unless this event is portrayed by Dumas inside his fiction, and done so specifically counter his own invention "more powerful than the king" this connection is demonstrably false. 
The passage reads as if the editor wanted to show us that the power held by the cardinal in the fiction of Dumas could not be real, as exemplified by the real-life event. This is original research, or synthesis: both parts of the statement are true, but the connection is created by the editor.
I have decoupled the claims; moving the Day of the Dupes trivia earlier in the lede, where it now only concerns the real-life cardinal, not the Richelieu of Dumas. CapnZapp (talk) 07:53, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Synthesis 

message: Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that :File:Cardinal de Richelieu.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on September 9, 2014. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2014-09-09. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. Thanks! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:47, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[:File:Cardinal de Richelieu.jpg]] to appear as POTD 

message: "Richelieu's early decision to support a Protestant canton against the Pope was a foretaste of the purely diplomatic power politics he would espouse in his foreign policy.".  This immediately follows a sentence about Richelieu using troops.  Usually "diplomatic" means finding a way NOT to use troops.  In  context, it apparently has to do with operating as if he wasn't even a cardinal, or, as if he had nothing but secular power.  The sentence reflects a value judgment but there  is no citation.  What is it supposed to mean and where did  the  concept come from?
100.15.120.162 (talk) 23:19, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  what does it mean? 

message: Substituted at 02:13, 27 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I've taken the liberty of removing two short, uncited paragraphs giving examples of Richelieu appearing in films. The examples were reasonably presented but no indication was given that they were any more noteworthy than any of the other ninety four film and television depictions of the Cardinal. Obviously, it is not desirable that the "Portrayals in fiction" section degenerate into a trivia free-for-all. I also removed one example of blatant trivia creep. 79.65.126.184 (talk) 02:19, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Portrayals in fiction" section 

message: In one of the styles boxes, Richelieu is said to have been styled "His Grand Eminence" and "Your Grand Eminence". In more than forty years of reading Richelieu and about Richelieu, I have never seen these terms. I'm afraid I must demand a citation. In Latin, he was "Eminentissimus et Reverendissimus Dominus, Dominus Cardinalis Armandus.... etc."
--Vicedomino (talk) 05:28, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Grand Eminence" ??? 

message: In the entry for "Austro-Spanish", IP wikified "spanish" and a previous editor wikified "austro" to austria.  Both links are clearly incorrect.  While I'm not convinced this term should be wikified at all, I directed "Austro" to Habsburg Monarchy and "Spain" to Habsburg Spain. I didn't fully explain the edit in the edit summary soI've left this message ---- Work permit (talk) 01:32, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Austro-Spanish 

message: There are a couple of problems here.
First, the use of the nickname is unsourced and not mentioned directly later in the article. It is easy to source that Richelieu has been called the red eminence at some point (for instance here's a recent fr radio broadcast that uses it in the title) but I did not find anything in a quick online search attesting of the use during his life (which the sentence does not say but heavily implies).
Moreover, the explanation is missing a crucial piece of information: "red eminence" would be a pleonasm ("cardinal cardinal" essentially) if it was not for the existence of a grey eminence (François Leclerc du Tremblay). "Grey eminence" was in contemporary use (see sourcing in the associated article) and it is tempting to guess that the associated "red eminence" appeared at the same time but it would be good to have a source for that. TigraanClick here to contact me 16:41, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  "red eminence" in the lead - sourcing/wording 

message: Currently, the pronunciation of the title of the article is glossed in a footnote, but the subject's birth name is given IPA that is clearly visible at the head of the article without the use of a mouse. Isn't this the wrong way round? Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 17:12, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shouldn't the IPA in the lead be the other way around?