Template talk:Florida

message: 15-Dec-2007: I have confirmed that the Template:Florida has been transcluded into 806 pages, and so adds 806 index-links to each wikilinked word in the nav-box.  Every region, county, and major town in Florida has been linked to over 806 articles, providing a total of over 96,000 links:
:::806 pages x 120 wikilinks in Template:Florida = 96,720 links
The 96,000 links are not yet unmanageable, but the problem is growing as more articles are linked by the nav-box Template:Florida.  Eventually, solutions must be found to avoid the growing nav-box index crisis, as discussed below. -Wikid77 (talk) 10:19, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nav-boxes crowding Wikipedia index-files 

message: 15-Dec-2007: As a very simple solution to nav-box overlinking, the Template:Texas does not contain box links to the 254 counties in Texas (most of any state); instead, Template:Texas merely links the full-length counties article by "See: List of Texas counties".  Although Template:Texas gives a simple solution reducing the nav-box crisis, it has the drawback of linking a very long article to provide county-name links, rather than a short nav-box template of county-names.  Instead, I suggest creating a condensed state-counties template for only counties of a state, similar to Template:Florida, but with only box links to county-names, avoiding a full-length article listing descriptions of all counties. Then, that kind of state-counties template ("Template:Florida_counties") would only be transcluded into a few hundred articles about counties, rather than several hundred. Meanwhile, each state-template could be substantially shortened (by using "See: List of Florida counties" to reduce overall wikilinks by 53,000 or so), until a condensed state-counties template has been developed and verified.  Long term, the general solution would be multiple smaller templates:
::* Template:Florida - simplified as links to other templates;
::* Template:Florida_counties - condensed table of county names;
::* Template:Florida_cities - condensed table of major cities;
::* Template:Florida_regions - condensed table of major regions;
::* Template:Florida_topics - condensed table of topic articles;
::* Template:Florida_roads - condensed table of roadways;
::* Template:Florida_railways - condensed table of railways.
Other templates could be added for future subjects.  -Wikid77 (talk) 19:12, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As I said, I am not totally opposed to changing the list of (67) Florida counties on the template to a list (although it would be the only state other than Texas to do so, and the Texas list is four times as large; other states with high numbers of counties such as Georgia and Kentucky still list all counties), but I am still opposed to any structural changes to the template without addressing it at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject U.S. states/state templates, which discussed harmonization of all the state templates. The number of links being created by the Florida template is of a significantly smaller scale than what is occurring with both the Illinois and Minnesota templates. Deal with the bigger problems first, then we can discuss this template. Horologium (talk) 19:38, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: * I understand that other states have more massive index files for their nav-box wikilinks, and the problem needs to be addressed beyond Texas and Florida articles.  For further consideration and comparisons, I have created 3 templates (Template:Florida_counties, Template:Florida_cities, Template:Florida_topics) to allow efficient, but condensed, nav-boxes for the Florida articles. -Wikid77 (talk) 20:02, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Still testing: I understand fear of changing 1,806 806 articles, but I think the central template could be changed (cleverly), and all 806 articles would "auto-de-link" the 50,000 excessive wikilinks after a few weeks/months.  Creating some proposed templates, now, provides the experimental evidence to support the theoretical notions that links will be dramatically reduced and users will be comfortable with the changes (once they are actually made to live templates).  I have confirmed that Template:Minnesota generates over 518,500 index entries, from just 250 wikilinks on that template, used by 2,073 articles.  In the case of Template:Texas, I found (to my horror) that they removed the 254 county box-links in August 2007, but linked to a county-list article containing 254 county-images (2.5 megabytes), so I also linked the original 254 county box-links as a separate table (not re-generating "254,000" county wikilinks).  I think, all options need to be carefully tested, before making a decision as to how to adjust 40,000 overlinked articles, and what to leave as is. -Wikid77 (talk) 11:23, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Clutter was earlier concern: From reading talk pages from the past 3 years, I see that "clutter" was an early concern, and editors were removing notable cities from lists to reduce the size of the nav-box (because listing the counties competed with space to list cities).  The problem involves the classic "separation of concerns" (or "separation of features" from over 30 years ago): county names & city names have been competing for space in the state-templates.  I think part of the solution is to hide county or city names, by passing section-display parameters to the state-templates (see below). -Wikid77 (talk) 11:54, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Template:Texas reduces nav-box crisis 

message: At least one county in Vermont (sic!) has deleted the state template in all towns and villages and substituted a county template only. So a reader arriving there would have to go up to the county article to get to the Vermont template. I haven't seen anyone commenting on this yet. It does reduce bottom clutter a lot. I doubt they had a "link problem" to start with!  :)  Student7 (talk) 04:05, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Clutter was earlier concern: From reading talk pages from the past 3 years, I see that "clutter" was an early concern, and editors were removing notable cities from lists to reduce the size of the nav-box (because listing the counties competed with space to list cities).  The problem involves the classic "separation of concerns" (or "separation of features" from over 30 years ago): county names & city names have been competing for space in the state-templates.  I think part of the solution is to hide county or city names, by passing section-display parameters to the state-templates (see below). -Wikid77 (talk) 11:54, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Solution in Vermont?

message: 16-Dec-2007: It seems possible to pass a new parameter ("no_counties") to a state template to provide an easy way to suppress county-name links.  The concept requires more testing, to ensure that county-name links coded in a template only generate index entries when displayed, not simply by being hidden somewhere inside a template.  The strategy would be, typically, to hide county names by default (as "no_counties"), but allow county articles to pass parameter "counties""show_counties" to force display (and wiki-indexing) of the county names, only in those county articles, not indexing the other 50,000 times when articles don't need county names linked.  When county names are omitted from the box links, users can then view Template:Florida_counties, as a separate nav-article (generating only 67 county index entries, not 50,000).  At that point, Template:Florida_counties would be a user-requested display.  Again, the indexing must be confirmed first: I have already confirmed that wikilinks in a "<noinclude>" section of a template are being indexed into the Wikipedia link database. Wikid77 (talk) 11:54, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: 17-Dec-2007: Yes, wikilinks that are skipped (such as by false if-expressions in a template) do NOT get added to the Wikipedia link-index database: if the box-links for county names are suppressed by default, they will be removed from an article (after edit-save) that includes that state's template, even though the template allows parameter "show_counties" to display those county box links.  However, once the county names are suppressed, a user should have a link to a counties-template (such as "See: Table of Florida counties" linking "Template:Florida_counties") to access that nav-box, as a nav-page, to proceed with county selection.  For now, suppressing county-names by default, but adding parameter "show_counties" in, perhaps, a few hundred county-related articles, will allow the existing state's template (slightly modified) to continue to be used in thousands of articles, without wikilink-spamming.  Of course, some states need a similar fix for box-links to 50 or 100 city names in that particular state's template.  I understand that Wikipedia is edited by "skeleton crews" of volunteers, so changes will take time to implement.  At this point, I will move the discussion to the standards project for "Template:US state navigation box" as requested above. Thanks. -Wikid77 (talk) 11:46, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hiding sections by display parameters 

message: What is the criteria of "Major hurricanes"? Is it about the hurricanes that made landfall in Florida with C3 intensity or above? If yes, then it should follows List of Florida hurricanes#Florida major hurricanes and remove Dorian as it never made landfall in Florida. 116.49.148.156 (talk) 02:30, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the  template. It is worthwhile proposing the suggested change with a post at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Florida. Goldsztajn (talk) 09:49, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 11 September 2020