Talk:System of a Down/Archive 1

message: I think the debate about SOAD being nu metal/not nu metal in the opening paragraph needs to be reviewed desperately as it makes the article as confusing as the debate itself.  Currently the phrase "eclectic metal" is plastered all over the page which needs to be removed.  I've never heard of "eclectic" metal and it sounds to me like something someone has made up.  Any thoughts on a re-write? MrHate 05:50, Jan 28, 2005 (UTC)
:Well... thanks for your input :P  I've re-written the nu metal argument which is hopefully pretty NPOV.  I also moved it out of the opening to the page because it isn't required in a short bio/history of the band.  I've also removed the mention that 'System are nu metal because they use downtuned guitars'.  I'd removed it previously but was added back.  Almost all metal bands use downtuned guitars, nu metal or not, it is a characteristic of metal in general.  Adding to that, System don't even really down tune, as most of their songs are in the (almost) standard drop D (DADGBE)... a tuning used by most rock bands as well as metal.  If anyone has any comments, please let me know :) MrHate 02:48, Feb 18, 2005 (UTC)
::They use CGCFAD. Nadavspi | talk 16:51, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Genre

message: It has been called to my attention that some revert warring was going on here, though it seems to have died down at the moment.  Please note the existence of the Wikipedia:Three Revert Rule, which I will enforce if necessary (and which applies even if you are right) by blocking editing privileges for anyone who breaks the rule.  Thank you for having cited a source, Mr.Hate.  Michael and anyone else involved, please cite a source for your edits.  Mr.Hate's version appears to be confirmed by several sites that I have spotchecked.  Thusly, I have removed "Cigaro" from the list of singles and switched the release dates of Hypnotize and Mezmerize, as well as changed the spelling of the latter (which is incorrectly spelled if one is talking about the word, but that appears to be the spelling of the album for whatever reason).  I was unable to confirm the release date of September 27 for Hypnotize.  If anyone disagrees with these edits, please cite a source.  Revert warring is not allowed on Wikipedia, so if there is a dispute, we will need to discuss it here.  If necessary, I'm sure the band's official webpage can be e-mailed, and they will presumably confirm whatever info has been released, and any speculation or rumors can be attributed to those who believe it.  I repeat that revert warring is not allowed -- this is not a guideline or suggestion, it is a rule that governs this website and is not negotiable. Tuf-Kat 03:11, Mar 4, 2005 (UTC)
:I have not changed the articles on the albums because they are protected and doing so would violate policy.  If no sources are cited soon, however, I will change them appropriately.  Please add sources, without commentary, just below here. (looking closer, I've found conflicting info) Tuf-Kat 03:17, Mar 4, 2005 (UTC)
*Hypnotize's release date
**Spring: , 
**Fall: , , 
*Mezmerize's release date
**Spring: , , 
**Fall: , 
*Spelling of Mezmerize
**Mezmerize: 
**Mesmerize: , , , 
*Single status of Cigaro
**Yes:
**No: ,  
Grr, someone's wrong.  I'll try emailing the band's website. Tuf-Kat 03:46, Mar 4, 2005 (UTC)
:As I mentioned earlier, a major print advertising campaign from Sony is underway for Mesmerize (citing an April release date).  It's in an issue of Kerrang! that I have.  Surely that's enough to confirm this confusion? MrHate 22:11, Mar 6, 2005 (UTC)
::Blabbermouth featured a story this morning that confirms a May 17 release date for Mesmerize as well as some song titles. See the article here  MrHate 22:02, Mar 7, 2005 (UTC)
:::I still haven't gotten a response to my e-mail, but I find this pretty convincing.  Michael, have you found anything very authoritative? I'd like to unprotect the album pages as soon as possible. Tuf-Kat 22:26, Mar 7, 2005 (UTC)
::::Adding another link (from mtv.com) that says Cigaro is *not* a single. So far no one has listed a single source that says Cigaro is in fact a proper single. Nadavspi | talk 03:07, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, KROQ (the station in my city) played "Cigaro" once, that's why I've always been restoring it. -- Mike Garcia 03:12, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Please visit the 3rd link, to mtv.com which says "One of those songs, "Cigaro," was recently leaked online and became an instant hit on KROQ-FM in Los Angeles as well as other stations. Another song, "B.Y.O.B.," will actually be the first single." Now, I am in no way saying that mtv is a clear, definite source, but since it is a fairly respectable source, and that article quotes the band, and we don't have any sources that say that Cigaro is a single, I think it's safe to leave it out of the article. Nadavspi | talk 03:16, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

text: Alright, cool. Thanks for settling this :-) Nadavspi | talk 03:18, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion

message: I changed the nu-metal paragraph. Reasons for this is because it sounded too tabloid.
"Are they nu metal?"
And I remember reading somewhere, using "some say" etc. isn't very neutral. It's better to say "group X advocates support etc, because." I dunno, change it back if I'm wrong.
Uhh.. forgot to sign this as well.. oops! --coblin 20:47, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tabloid edit. 

message: I am so getting tired of the various anon users saying the sentence "there's gonna be hell to pay", that doesn't mean anything for English, does it? I'm guessing they must have been watching the episode of Malcolm in the Middle, there's an episode with a sentence like that when Malcolm was trying to fall in love with a girl and the father did say the sentence. -- Mike Garcia | talk 00:39, August 30, 2005 (UTC)
:It's an old expression, though a rather nonsensical one... just who is expected to "pay" for hell?  At any rate, it seems to be a completely empty threat, as the anon user has been saying it for weeks and hasn't done anything beyond continued edit-warring. *Dan* 02:28, August 30, 2005 (UTC)
*Empty threat, yes.  Annoying even more so.  Just look at the conversation above about nu-metal.  You can see the annon user's annoyance with changing this. Personally, I believe the band is metal, along the lines of heavy metal.  They are not anywhere nears nu-metal at all.--ZeWrestler  Talk 17:32, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The "there's gonna be hell to pay" sentence 

message: While Cigaro was not released as a single it did receive airplay and may have charted on the Mainstream Rock chart (if nobody checks I will as soon as I get around to it).
Some Admin please update "Question!" from #14 to #12 on the Mainstream Rock chart.  Thanks.  Xinger 07:04, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Cigaro" and chart update 

message: Quote from the opening paragraph "...and some of their songs are about Armenian-related issues (including the Armenian Genocide)." Only one song is. Armenian releated issues? Name one (besides the Armenian Holocaust). Shouldn't be in the opening paragraph --Ultrasound 15:07, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I took that sentence out a while ago but someone put it back in. I agree. We only know for sure that "PLUCK" is about an Armenian issue, in addition to "Arto" which was the hidden track on Toxicity. Pasboudin 16:54, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: There's Holy Mountains too...Worldmaster0 02:25, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Armenian issues? 

message: To the anon - please stop blindly reverting and discuss WHY you think they should be labeled as nu-metal. Ryan Norton T | @ | C 00:01, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Get ready for another round of "it's nu-metal because I say so, and you'll be sorry if you revert me once more." One of the stupidest edit wars I've seen. Consensus is to include the explanatory section and not make the blanket statement that they are nu-metal. Let's move on. Rhobite 00:41, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It's obvious to me that the anon doesn't really care if System of a Down is nu-metal or not. He just wants to make trouble, because it amuses him. He's just a troll. Hopefully he'll tire of it eventually, and we can just keep reverting his edits. He vandalized my user page a while back, too. --Dalkaen 09:47, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nu-metal again 

message: Who the hell? What the? 
Before system of a down, serj and daron were in a band called Soil, which then added Shavo and a line of drummers which became system of a down. And system of a down had mostly armenian members.
--Ultrasound 11:55, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Darren Willson 

message: "Their main influences are most noticeably from earlier alternative rock bands, but they also draw    influence from the punk rock, jazz, fusion, Armenian folk music, classic rock, blues, and industrial  genres."
Alternative rock and punk rock influences are indisputable, and Armenian folk is certainly noticeable. What about jazz, fusion, classic rock, blues, and industrial? I don't hear much of that in their music. Could anyone cite some examples as to where this influence shows? --DalkaenT/C 19:08, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Not much jazz and blues in there, that's for sure. Pasboudin 23:32, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  There are jazz touches definitely, mainly in the first album, hear for example "Sugar", there are a lot of typical jazz rythms and jams. Some jazz stuff is also to find on "Toxicity" I think, but not so much. There is not so much jazz at all, but still there is some. Well, about blues is hard to say if there is some or not, there're some melancholical parts that maybe could be defined as blues, but I don't think there's any industrial. --Tzeck 16:18, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: History, style, and influences