Talk:Southern hospitality

message: Reverted to Aug 2006 stub because subsequent changes didn't fit Wikipedia guidelines for a variety of reasons. Sudiekins' contributions were particularly nonsensical and inappropriate. Jamiem 22:22, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Doesn't matter if it exists - communism doesn't exist anywhere, and neither does Chewbacca, but we've got articles on both. bd2412 T 21:59, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments

message: I agree this really needs a re-write. What marks Southern Hospitality as notable and different from other parts of the US?
While a NPOV needs to be maintained it is also important to explain the cultural importance of certain customs.
Does anyone know of a southern etiquette guide that could be used as a viable source?
I can dig up my old charm school books but southern hospitality might be more of a interpersonal thing than written.
My experience with Southern Hospitality is that of a central/north Texas variety amongst african-american and upper-middle class white groups so it will obviously not be the same as southern hospitality as that experienced in Georgia or Alabama.
Junkupshowup (talk) 06:43, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  needs rewrite 

message: First off, I think we should dismiss any anecdotal evidence.  Several people here mention the lack of hospitality or abundance depending on their personal experience.  I, for one, have had many foreign friends come visit and immediately pick up on aspects of "Southern Hospitality" that they did not notice elsewhere.  Also, as a Georgian (albeit, an ex-pat), I make it a point to extend hospitality and show courtesy and manners because that is what I was raised to do. 
However, none of our personal experiences matter.  This is an article about a widely held belief or extant phenomenon(depending on your view) that needs to have an article.  As an example--When I went to graduate school in Europe, many of my European friends and acquaintances often asked me about the "Southern Hospitality" they've heard of--thus, it is a widely held and propagated idea that needs to be addressed.  
SO, to get to the point.  I experienced a lot of what the article talks about and can compare it to my experience living overseas and in several US cities.  However, I will try to find studies or books that cover the subject.  As far as cuisine, manners, and open-door hospitality, I will ping a few of my friends who are academics who research American History and Southern Culture as the university level. We need to avoid having people edit this based on their personal experience and I will work on finding professional sources. 
For now, some general criticism:  the introduction to the "critical examination" extrapolates things that are clearly not said in the book exert.  For instance, no one I know says "Ma'am" or "Sir", starts up friendly conversations at random, invites people to dinner, or maintains proper decorum and manners because we are supposedly racist, trying to cover up our past of segregation, or living in poverty.  This is hogwash and is clearly not said in the exert.  If no one has any objections, I will eventually change the sentence to better reflect what the exert author said.
Input?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Theboondocksaint (talk • contribs) 23:30, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Will work on it 

message: An editor placed an NPOV tag on the article, but did not provide an explanation on the talk page as to what about the article raised a concern for this editor. So far as I can tell, the article accurately relates a well-documented stereotype, examples thereof, and criticisms thereof. Of course, it could stand to be expanded, but this is not the same as saying that it has a bias that requires correction. bd2412 T 01:01, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV concerns 

message: Currently the article relies heavily on a primary source from the first half of the 19th century. This is WP:OR. We need secondary sources discussing the concept. I've tagged the article for a rewrite. :bloodofox: (talk) 10:40, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no rule against using old sources that describe a topic. Also, the 1835 source is a secondary source for the purpose of describing Southern hospitality. It is a travelogue by a professional writer from the North. bd2412 T 21:34, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Original Research and Poor Sourcing = Rewrite Needed 

message: Would you care to qualify your addition of a POV tag to this article? Exactly what about it do you think is POV? bd2412 T 21:35, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: The quote in the "Origins" section is good, but I still think we should add more context re: lynchings. The lede is particularly troubling. And even these days, I am not sure how "hospitable" the South is to the LGBTQ community, but is there an RS about this that we could add?Zigzig20s (talk) 21:59, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  I don't see the specific relevance of lynchings. Yes, they are anathema to hospitality, but so is slavery, which is more directly connected to it. With respect to LGBTQ issues, the first thing I came across was this Huffington Post blog, which I am guessing does not address your concern. bd2412 T 22:11, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: No, I am thinking of gay bashings, arbitrary dismissals, homelessness...on the grounds of "Christian values" (sic). The South is not very hospitable to the LGBTQ community. There may be RS in The Journal of Homosexuality--I am not sure.Zigzig20s (talk) 22:26, 14 December 2017 (UTC)

text: Also classism...Does hospitality extend to poor whites?Zigzig20s (talk) 22:28, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  I tend to think negative examples are of secondary importance to an article on the topic. The first priority of the article should be identifying exactly what "southern hospitality" is (or is claimed to be) before moving to questions of whether it is observed inconsistently. bd2412 T 22:39, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I think exclusion may be part of the definition.Zigzig20s (talk) 22:55, 14 December 2017 (UTC)

text: We can't cite op eds.Zigzig20s (talk) 02:38, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV concerns again 

message: Some materials have been removed from this article which merit further discussion. They are as follows:
This was removed as "Humorous WP:OR from a primary source dating from 1902". The source cited is neither humorous nor a primary source, as Ernest Hamlin Abbott is not the subject of the article. The second quote removed is:
This was removed as "undue weight, not a social scientist or sociologist or any kind of expert as described in the preceding sentence". I see no explanation as to why this is "undue". If the problem is that the author is not the kind of expert described in the preceding sentence, then the solution would be to fix the preceding sentence to encompass the author. bd2412 T 12:58, 18 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: The first passage could be restored. The second passage probably needs more in-line references.Zigzig20s (talk) 18:36, 18 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed material 

message: The layout looks a bit odd with these long quotations. Is there not a way to rephrase the article with in-line references instead please?Zigzig20s (talk) 18:39, 18 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Issue with long quotations 

message: I removed the tags with this edit. The article appears neutral to me; it's about the term, and the article fairly represents the subject. Please let me know if there are any concerns. --K.e.coffman (talk) 18:44, 28 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tags