Talk:Liverpool F.C. in international football

message: Liverpool had a semi-final run in the 2009–10 UEFA Europa League. It's not found here.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.173.243.143 (talk) 03:28, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Europa League is missing

message: "from 1964 to 1985, Liverpool qualified for the European Cup on eight occasions by winning the former Football League First Division, and qualified for the UEFA Cup and Cup Winners Cup by winning the FA Cup and Football League Cup".
The areas in bold above need to be double checked for accuracy.  this seems to be an excellent online resource. Jprw (talk) 09:14, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Fact checking

message: I'm thinking of changing 
Liverpool Football Club is an English professional football club based in Liverpool, Merseyside which has regularly and successfully taken part in European competitions since 1964. Qualification for English football clubs to European competitions is determined by teams' domestic league and cup performances; from 1964 to 1985, Liverpool qualified for the European Cup on eight occasions by winning the former Football League First Division, and qualified for the UEFA Cup and Cup Winners Cup by winning the FA Cup and Football League Cup.
Liverpool's first participation in European competition was in the 1964–65 European Cup against KR Reykjavik of Iceland. Liverpool competed in Europe for 21 consecutive seasons until the 1985 European Cup final, the occasion of the Heysel Stadium disaster, following which all English clubs were banned from UEFA competitions for six seasons. Since being reaccepted in 1992, Liverpool has qualified for either the Champions League or the UEFA Cup in most seasons to date.
to
Liverpool Football Club is an English professional football club based in Liverpool, Merseyside which has regularly and successfully taken part in European football competitions since 1964, winning a total of ten European trophies.
Liverpool's first participation in European competition was in the 1964–65 European Cup against KR Reykjavik of Iceland. Liverpool competed in Europe for 21 consecutive seasons until the 1985 European Cup final, the occasion of the Heysel Stadium disaster, following which all English clubs were banned from UEFA competitions for six seasons. Since being reaccepted in 1992, Liverpool has qualified for either the Champions League or the UEFA Cup in most seasons to date.
Any thoughts?
Jprw (talk) 10:05, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes you do realise that the article is currently on hold at GA, and that the reviewer suggested the lead that is currently there. For this reason I would wait to see what he has to say on the matter. NapHit (talk) 10:11, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: The first two paras

message: I've just had another go at tidying up the article; see    and . There still seemed to be quite a bit of non-encyclopaedic language, irrelevance, and repetition, and a couple of important bits missing. At this stage I'm worried about the following sentence:
The final, at Rome's Stadio Olimpico, was in fact an away match against A.S. Roma, and as they were playing in Roma's home ground, they had to take chances as it was unlikely Roma would not score. The tactics worked: Liverpool went ahead in the 13th minute when Phil Neal scored, but Roma equalised towards the end of the first half.
Is this source reliable? the wording/tone also seem to be questionable. Jprw (talk) 12:11, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: LFC History is an extremely reliable source, the stats are always updated regularly, plus the owners of the site are releasing a book very soon which I think verifies that the site is reliable. NapHit (talk)
I'm just not 100% sure that it meets WP:RS criteria, it looks like some kind of a fansite. Also, I wonder if we can use this image somewhere.  Jprw (talk) 17:15, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

text: It is definitely 100% its not a fansite its the most comprehensive site related to Liverpool and there info has been used on the official site so I think that indicates how reliable the site is. The image cant be used as its not free use, the fair use rationale on the image page specifies that it can only be used on the article it is relevant to. NapHit (talk) 23:59, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

text: Ye go for it, I'm sure they'd be willing to submit a few photos NapHit (talk) 06:31, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: More tidying up

message: I've written to the website; in the meantime,  this image from flickr seems to be usable. Jprw (talk) 14:38, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm not sure it says all rights reserved at the bottom which normally means it cant be used. Try uploading it to the commons using the flickr upload bot if it won't upload it, we won't be able to use it unfortunately, which is a shame as its a great image. NapHit (talk) 14:42, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Images, continued 

message: Hughes isn't mentioned anywhere in the article, which seems wrong as he lifted consecutive European cups as Liverpool captain in 1977 and 1978, and possibly the UEFA Cup in 76 as well. Jprw (talk) 16:39, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Emlyn Hughes

message: Under new manager Joe Fagan, Liverpool reached their fourth European Cup final in 1984, after first- and second-round victories over Danish champions Odense BK and Spanish champions Athletico Madrid, respectively, a quarter-final 5-0 aggregate victory over Benfica (managed by Sven Goran Eriksson), and a highly physical 3-1 semi-final encounter against Dinamo Bucharest, which Liverpool won 3-1 on aggregate. In his 2009 autobiography Ian Rush wrote, "our games against Dinamo were the most brutal of my entire career".
This keeps getting removed and I'm not sure why. It looks like necessary background information to 1984 final, with a salient ref included. The games in the run up to the final are important and need mentioning. Jprw (talk) 16:47, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: We can't mention all of the games in the run up to the final, the article would be too long, and as there were no notable matches in the run up to the 1984 final there is no need to include them. Quite frankly, the bit about Ian Rush is most definitely not needed so what if he considered it the most brutal game of his career, that has no relevance in article about Liverpool in Europe. Why not include what Thompson, Hughes, Yeats etc through was their most brutal game or favourite game, why Rush? That sort of info belongs in the player's article not this one. NapHit (talk) 18:48, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

text: Fair enough I'll have a look at my books and try and pick out some notable tidbits about the run-up, I'm fairly sure there was an infamous incident with Souness who broke one of the Bucharest's players jaw, which could be included. Instead of the Rush quote I'll try nd find one from Fagan, or from all the team which corroborate what Rush said. NapHit (talk) 12:24, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Background to 84 final

message: I have rearranged the photos of the cups to more logical places in the article. Jprw (talk) 04:56, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm afraid the way you rearranged the photos is against policy, you can't stack photos. The photo of the trophy in the museum is fine in the lead, its more relevant to the article than the other one. Please stop removing the European competition section, this was requested in the recent Peer review by an experienced editor. It is for people who are unaware of all the different competitions UEFA has had. The goal is to get the article to FA, this section will be needed, as many people that read the article will not follow football, and will be baffled by all the competitions. This section helps them understand the different competitions. NapHit (talk) 15:21, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Personally, I believe that you think you own the article considering your edits. I keep telling you that the competitions section was recommended at the recent PR, because you obviously haven't read it. If a respected editor such as Ruhrfisch suggests the section is needed then it should be implemented. A see also does not solve the problem perfectly, the problem is still there. The problem being that readers unaware of European football will be confused by the different competitions. Therefore, a section outlining them is necessary, a see also section means they have to trawl through another page to find the information when it can be provided briefly at the start. Its not my image by the way, its a random one from flickr, but its more relevant to the article that's why it should be in the lead, as it is the trophy they won permanently, as opposed to a random one. Plus moving it to the relevant section doesn't solve anything as then there are three images of the trophy in the article, when others should be used. The article is not going backwards at all, I have experience getting articles to FA standard and this article is heading there. I don't what to start mud-slinging but to say I am stopping editors from taking the article forward is not the case. If an edit improves the article I'm gine with that, but removing a section tat was requested in a peer review is not taking the article forward, so perhaps you should take a look at yourself before accusing others first. NapHit (talk) 15:50, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Out of interest how is the article unbalanced? As regards needing to be rewritten, I've recently requested a copyedit with regards to FAC so once that is done it should be fine. I personally think your doing the reassessment to make a POINT, which shouldn't be done. But I'm sure the GA community will find the article is up to scratch. NapHit (talk) 15:53, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

text: I agree this image would be useful. NapHit (talk) 17:35, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

text: It is definitely needed the more I think about it. For me and you who know about the intricacies of European football its not necessary, but for the casual reader with no knowledge it is needed as they won't understand the competitions. See also sections are in my opinion a waste of time. As the topic is about European competition it makes sense to explain the different European competitions to the reader as its relevant to the article. Especially since some of them, have changed their name recently. Getting the opinion of other reviewers is what peer reviews are for, and seeing as it was suggested I'm going to put it back in. NapHit (talk) 17:35, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

text: Well, it would help if you mentioned what sections these are, so I can see if they need improving. NapHit (talk) 17:35, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

text: Well you've undone work I've done, with regards to the European competition, so I think we're both to blame here. I'll admit I have not been very co-operative, but that's because I don't have experience working with another editor improving an article, I tend to do them by myself. Obviously, we both want the article to improve and get to FA, so I think we need to find a way to work together to achieve this. NapHit (talk) 17:35, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

text: Yep, I agree. Hmm, I see your point, but the GA reviewer said he wanted to see info like this in the article, although to be fair Benitez did moan a lot about money to buy players after losing the final, so in that regard its relevant. Ye experimenting with options is good for me, just make sure the images are free use otherwise when the article goes to FA, we'll be pulled up on this. I agree the opinion of another editor would help, ideally one who is not familiar with football, to see if the section serves its intended purpose. Regarding the lead, the job of the lead is to summarise the content of the article, so in that regard it is fine. But another opinion would help. Well, seeing as the book has the same name as the article I was bound to use it more than the other books I have, but I'll try and use a few more of my other books for refs. NapHit (talk) 15:05, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Photos

message: Hi
During the copyedit a few things came to light that may need attention:
;Return to Europe (1991–2004)
(Paragraph 4)
*"Having finished fourth in the 1999–2000 FA Premier League, Liverpool qualified for the 2000–01 UEFA Cup and won the competition for a record-equalling third time. The season was the club's most successful since the 1980s as, domestically, Liverpool won both the FA Cup and the League Cup to claim a cup treble." - the sentences implies that the treble was domestic (maybe also link to Treble (association football)?). Perhaps reword to "The season was the club's most successful since the 1980s as Liverpool won a cup treble with the UEFA Cup, the FA Cup and the League Cup." There is also the last sentence, where it tells of Liverpool wining the Cup winners' cup - surely this is a quadruple? Alternatively the words "Continental treble" could be used?
;Benítez years (2004–10)
*(para 2) "Trailing 3–0 at half-time, ..." The para graph starts without saying which match this is in. If it refers to the last sentence of the previous para (AC Milan) then they need tying together.
;General
*Scores - sometimes the scores are written 0-1 and others are 1-0. I do not know what the recommended way of writing them is, but it did not make sense to have them in contradicting styles. One Liverpool loss was written "Liverpool blah blah beaten by Another club 0-1" while others followed the narrative "Liverpool blah blah lost Another club 1-0". I would suggest writing them either all from the perspective of Liverpool, where Liverpool's score is always the left-hand one, or following the narrative, where the first mentioned team is the left-hand score.
Good luck with the FA :¬) Chaosdruid (talk) 12:32, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  GOCE copyedit October 2011 

message: The Winter quote looks like an excellent addition to capture the historic nature of the match, yet it has been removed twice. It is difficult to understand this, especially given that less important descriptions such as The performance of Gary McAllister, whose free-kick resulted in the winning goal, was praised as "outstanding" by Trevor Brooking. seem to be allowed. Jprw (talk) 07:19, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The difference between the two is that the quote about McAllister is not POV as he was the man of the match in the final, whereas this is Winter's own personal opinion, what makes his opinion so important above others? Its not encyclopaedic neither is the inclusion of the ref which refers to the match as the miracle of Istanbul, the article is supposed to have a neutral tone, inclusion of stuff like this does give a neutral tone. Also why did you remove the bit about the 2005 FIFA Club World Cup, this is relevant as Liverpool qualify for the competition through the Champions League and are Europe's representatives in the competition so by that token it is relevant, it would help if you discussed these things before jumping in carte blanche and making changes, ignoring the fact that there is an ongoing peer review which is aiming to improve the article. NapHit (talk) 11:06, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree it was an extrordinary match, but wikipedia is an encyclopedia it has to maintain neutrality, and your claim that it is "the most extraordinary event in Liverpool's participation in European competition (if not the club's history)" is your opinion it can't be claimed as fact as other people will view other finals as more important, the 1977 or 1984 finals for instance its a matter of opinion not fact. Thinking about I think there is a way to get the refs in the article without it sounding too POV, and we have to remember not to focus too much on this one match, as its undue weight, I'll include them now and you tell me what you think. NapHit (talk) 12:28, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

text:  Yes and I explained why that final is relevant above they are representing Europe in that competition, they qualified for it through European competition, it is relevant, editors asked for this to be included at the recent FAC, so I think consensus incurs that it should be included. NapHit (talk) 12:28, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

text:  You can't make sweeping statements like "the material that I am trying to remove / pare down is quite clearly irrelevant" when other editors have requested this information be included. Granted some of the edits you've made have improved the article, but you can't move parts of the article that we're requested by other editors without discussion. NapHit (talk) 12:28, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

text: I've trimmed the bit about the 2005 FIFA Club World Championship right down its just two short sentences stating that were entitled to play in it and lost the competition, should be enough. Regarding the quote, the problem I have it is trying to get it to sound NPOV, which is hard, I agree that it is probably the greatest match in Liverpool's history (greatest in my living memory anyway), but other editors might disagree. We've got to try and word it right so it puts the point across about the match, yet does it in a neutral tone, not an easy task. NapHit (talk) 23:09, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Winter quote

message: I've uploaded a cropped image of the 2005 trophy which could be used somewhere in the article. See here Jprw (talk) 15:48, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Ye the one in the article is much better, looks a lot crisper and clearer. NapHit (talk) 21:07, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes I also thought it was in better focus and clearer, let's stick with it then. Jprw (talk) 06:46, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Image of 2005 CL trophy uploaded

message: Congratulations to those editors who took this article from scratch to Featured Article status on Wikipedia. I saw for myself how much of a Herculean effort it was, in particular on the part of NapHit. Well done – you have done yourselves, the encyclopedia, and Liverpool Football Club proud. "What we do in life echoes in eternity" (one of the LFC banners at the Istanbul 2005 final). Jprw (talk) 12:56, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Congratulations on achieving FA status for this article

message: In the intro, and elsewhere in the article, it is stated that LFC has won "the UEFA Champions League (formerly known as the European Cup)" and "the UEFA Europa League (formerly known as the UEFA Cup)". More accurate would be to state that LFC has won "the European Cup (since replaced by the UEFA Champions League)" and "the UEFA Cup (since replaced by the UEFA Europa League)". -The Gnome (talk) 09:03, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Champions League, European Cup

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Liverpool F.C. in European football. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.uefa.com/UefaCup/matches/report.asp?Match=67741&Home=7889&Away=69619
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 17:16, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Liverpool F.C. in European football. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100503062924/http://en.archive.uefa.com/competitions/ecwc/history/season%3D1996/intro.html to http://en.archive.uefa.com/competitions/ecwc/history/season%3D1996/intro.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070312003915/http://www.uefa.com/newsfiles/19071.pdf to http://www.uefa.com/newsfiles/19071.pdf
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 07:03, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Liverpool F.C. in European football. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20151018075040/http://en.archive.uefa.com/competitions/ucl/history/season%3D2006/round%3D2361/match%3D300099/report%3Drp.html to http://en.archive.uefa.com/competitions/ucl/history/season%3D2006/round%3D2361/match%3D300099/report%3Drp.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 10:51, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 6 external links on Liverpool F.C. in European football. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090130063818/http://www.fifa.com/classicfootball/clubs/matchreport/newsid%3D512056.html to http://www.fifa.com/classicfootball/clubs/matchreport/newsid%3D512056.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100831070824/http://en.archive.uefa.com/competitions/supercup/history/season%3D2001/intro.html to http://en.archive.uefa.com/competitions/supercup/history/season%3D2001/intro.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120509091213/http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/news/news/european-qualification-permutations.html to http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/news/news/european-qualification-permutations.html
*Added  tag to http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/features/reds-first-ever-euro-tie
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100117145912/http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/history/records/attendances to http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/history/records/attendances
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120722050835/http://www.fifa.com/tournaments/archive/tournament%3D107/edition%3D4735/results/index.html to http://www.fifa.com/tournaments/archive/tournament%3D107/edition%3D4735/results/index.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120302005424/http://www.statto.com/football/teams/liverpool/head-to-head to http://www.statto.com/football/teams/liverpool/head-to-head
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 15:06, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Liverpool F.C. in European football. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111111063012/http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/history/timeline/1970-1995/fagan-steps-down-after-heysel-tragedy to http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/history/timeline/1970-1995/fagan-steps-down-after-heysel-tragedy
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 13:49, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Liverpool F.C. in European football. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110829220319/http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/history/timeline/1944-1969/reds-sport-all-red-kit-for-first-time to http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/history/timeline/1944-1969/reds-sport-all-red-kit-for-first-time
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100724033314/http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/history/records/matches to http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/history/records/matches
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110629140732/http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/history/records/matches to http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/history/records/matches
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110125195717/http://www.lfchistory.net/Stats/GamesCompetitionStats.aspx to http://www.lfchistory.net/Stats/GamesCompetitionStats.aspx
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 07:52, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Liverpool F.C. in European football. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100712075314/http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/history/timeline/1996-present/dortmund-delight-as-reds-win-thriller to http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/history/timeline/1996-present/dortmund-delight-as-reds-win-thriller
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 23:14, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified