Template talk:Infobox language/Archive 3

message: the current Template:Infobox Language is a private version of User:Netoholic and should be moved to his user space or to Template:Infobox Language new. He has no right to abuse the standard name to (in the long run) delete the history of the original template.
If needed a bot can change all article references from Language to Language Infobox. As Commander Kean told me, asking at Wikipedia:Bot requests gives fast help in general. Netoholic pointed out no bot should be used to do this, because a redirect is sufficient. But this is a different matter. This voting is only about having the true language infobox at Template:Infobox Language. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 23:29, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move 

message: not moved - please take destination template to WP:TfD if you wish to so, thanks WhiteNight T | @ | C 09:10, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: result

message: the folowing talk is copied from Tobias and Netohlics talk pages Tobias Conradi (Talk) 20:27, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd rather not move this.  It will prove to be more useful for the coming conversion since we can migrate to Template:Infobox Language over time. -- Netoholic @ 18:50, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Please don't think naming is nearly as important as content. Doing a bot run to replace a single redirect is not critical or even desirable.  What is important is the flagrant WP:AUM abuse taking place on Template:Language. -- Netoholic @ 18:59, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Single redirects are no big deal, and no one and no bot should find it necessary to replace them.  It is just busywork with no gain.  It just adds to the bandwidth and creates an unnecessary extra version in the page history, adding to database space needed. -- Netoholic @ 19:06, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Template move to Infobox Language - blocked by Netoholics template 

message: Netoholic wrong edits summary:
*http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chaldean_Neo-Aramaic&diff=34143908&oldid=34123209
*http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Coahuilteco_language&diff=34144016&oldid=34123207
*http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chiricahua_language&diff=34144089&oldid=34123206
*http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Comanche_language&diff=34144928&oldid=34123168
*http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chuukese_language&diff=34144733&oldid=34087871
*http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cayuga_language&diff=34144789&oldid=34123175
*http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Car_language&diff=34144846&oldid=34123171
*http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cieszyn_Silesian_dialect&diff=34144658&oldid=34123185
*http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Classical_Nahuatl&diff=34144526&oldid=34123191
*http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cacaopera_language&diff=34144450&oldid=34123190
*http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chilcotin_language&diff=34144378&oldid=34123200
*http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Capeverdean_Crioulo&diff=34144295&oldid=34123201
*http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Caddo_language&diff=34144231&oldid=34123204
Tobias Conradi (Talk) 19:54, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  prepare RfC Netoholic 

message: I converted  from a meta-template (it used to call ) to a single template and made corresponding changes to how it is called in this template. Please let me know if this breaks any pages. If it works correctly that removes one level of meta'ing on this template. We can probably start removing these nested conditions one at a time. --CBD ☎ ✉ 22:04, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I installed this re-written  into the call for . Since this is called and set as a parameter for the call to the language template it avoids the problems of meta-templating, but gives the same family colors functionality. An example can be seen at Template talk:Infobox Language. I also made some minor formatting adjustments to make the new box look more like the current one. Let me know what else should be adjusted. --CBD ☎ ✉ 02:07, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Since Netoholic reverted my changes and has slapped 'inuse' on the template again I have made a copy at User:CBDunkerson/Sandbox2. That page also shows samples of what the non-meta version looks like (on the left) against the current meta version (on the right). Currently my goal is to copy the existing Template:Language as closely as possible without using meta-templates at all. Still a work in progress, but please take a look and let me know what should be adjusted. If everyone agrees that the template has reached a usable state we can then move it into the proper location and make any adjustments to the articles calling it as needed. --CBD ☎ ✉ 16:48, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: what changes are needed in the articles? Tobias Conradi (Talk) 19:37, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nothing specifically yet. What I'm saying is that if we implement a new template with parameter changes (such as changing the 'state' parameter to 'official' as you suggest) then all the calls to the template in the individual articles will need to be updated to reflect any and all such changes. --CBD ☎ ✉ 20:38, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conversion 

message: Garzo / CBD, can we add "none" or so to the ISO 639 code fields? E.g. Montenegrin language has no code. But the reader would not know whether it is simply missing or does not exist. I think it is interesting for discussion whether something is considered language by ISO or not. Even if SIL/ISO is not _the_ authority to decide this (or any) it is interesting what they think. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 21:39, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The current chaos really prohibits doing anything constructive with the template. We could change the default of the parameter to 'none' instead of '—'. Most languages don't have an ISO 639-1 code, many constructed languages don't have an ISO 639-3 code. Because ISO 639-2 has a comprehensive set of collective codes every language should be able to find an appropriate one. I thought about having ISO 639-1 optional for all languages, and ISO 639-3 optional for constructed languages. However, this AUM cult has scuppered those plans. ISO 639-3 is still in draft format, and there are a good number of cases for new codes pending. --Gareth Hughes 23:01, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: default should be '-'. 'None' would be explicit statement that there is none. Don't care about the new codes, they can be added. Hey and this clowny Neto can't stop us from improving the infobox? Cheers Tobias Conradi (Talk) 23:26, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Go ahead and make updates. It looks like WP:AUM is going to be severely downgraded/changed or scrapped altogether. Brion, the lead developer, has said that the server load problems aren't that big a deal and will be handled on the dev side if/when needed. Meta-templates are still considered 'ugly' and to be avoided when possible, but better that than all the problems which the CSS hack has been introducing. The '|if=' parameter trick can still be used, but only if it is an easier/nicer way to do things than meta-templates like 'qif' would be. --CBD ☎ ✉ 12:16, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK. I think Montenegrin language is a bad example as it is usually considered to be a Serbian dialect. However, it would be useful to look again at how we present the codes. I've suggested that we might look at incorporating the Linguasphere language code into the template (discussion here). The ISO 639-1 codes are only given to major world languages, so many languages simply will not have one. The default text is an em-dash, but we might want to change that to read none, as not having a part-one code is the most likely reason why it's not in the infobox. I have thought about making this row removable, so that languages without a part-one code could skip it. However, it is perhaps useful to state that these languages do not have any code assigned them under part one. In part two, every language should be able to find a suitable code, as part two provides 'collective' codes. If an infobox is lacking a part-two code, it is most likely that the authors cannot find the appropriate code. Part three does not allow such collective codes and is attempting to be comprehensive. The real problem with part-three codes is with constructed languages: most will not have any code assignment in this part of the standard. We could make this field optional for constructed languages. In the meantime, I'll move the to be added notice from the default for  to  (it was added before the ISO 639-3 codes were added to articles), and make none the default for  and . --Gareth Hughes 14:55, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Yes, I see the logic in that. I've changed the default for  to an em-dash, but left the option that when the parameter is equal to  it returns the text none. I hope that looks right now. --Gareth Hughes 13:24, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  ISO 639 - none 

message: can we include script? maybe it could be done by using an array like for the families. So we stay flexible as for where the link goes and how to analyze the script variable. Maybe the IPA notice can later on depend on the script and can be removed. I once read someone thinking about codes for scripts - does anyone know about it? what about alphabet? Tobias Conradi (Talk) 03:34, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the neutral term would be writing system. The easiest implementation of this would be to have an optional row that can be added to the infobox that allows a blank field to be edited (e.g. |script=Latin alphabet). This would allow the maximum flexibility, but would make automatic changing of the footer notice more difficult. A code-based array might work, but would be more complicated to put together. --Gareth Hughes 12:14, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I really prefer array, especially after WP:AUM seems to have been downgraded. if "script" is incorrect the variable should be IMO "write", "writing", "writingsystem". I tend to "write" because it is short. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 04:26, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was thinking of 'Writing system' as the text to be displayed in the left-hand column:  seems like a good name for the parameter. I just wonder whether a code based array would be flexible enough. There are many languages with two or three different writing systems, or a different system used in different eras or places. On the positive side, many such languages have a single page covering the various differen systems (e.g. Mongolian alphabet). Some languages use a well-known system, but have a separate page on that language's implementation of the system (e.g. Welsh alphabet). I wonder how to fit this amount of information into a parameter. --Gareth Hughes 13:35, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ok, array seems not to be (easily) feasible. Before starting let's maybe analyze what will be put in. for param name: are the writing system all called scripts? if not i would prefer no to use script, or only use it for scripts. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 03:17, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  script / alphabet 

message: Please view discussion about this template on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Languages#Template:Infobox Conlang. -- Netoholic @ 07:14, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Moved thread replies.  PLEASE keep the conversation on the WikiProject talk page. -- Netoholic @ 17:27, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Template:Infobox Conlang]] 

message: I am kindly requesting all interested parties to review discussion regarding this template on my talk page: User talk:Ezhiki#Infobox:Language issues and User talk:Ezhiki#Infobox:Language proposed solution.  I realize that I should have announced it a lot earlier than this, but I did not expect the discussion to take as long as it did.  Your attention and comments will be much appreciated.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) 16:32, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Announcement 

message: I am happy to announce the following polls:
*Wikipedia:Templates for deletion#Template:Infobox Language
*Wikipedia:Templates for deletion#Template:Infobox Conlang
*Wikipedia:Templates for deletion#Template:Infobox Sign language.
As I'm not looking forward to the next time Netoholic decides to spread these all over the article space, I thought we might as well vote them out of use. --Gareth Hughes 14:25, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Templates for Deletion 

message: I've created Template:Language/pronunciation and modified Template:Language to optionally include the pronuncation of a particular language.
The syntax added in template:language is simply 
See the effect in English language, German language and French language. --Hello World! 04:49, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This works well; thank you. --Gareth Hughes 13:57, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I added the substed equivalent of  so it should display properly for everyone, too. --Angr 14:43, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Yes, Gail, I think that we might want a more descriptive left-hand column than 'pronunciation'. However, I feel that moving the native name out of the header reduces its importance (somewhen there was a debate that concluded that we should try not to place the native name below the English name, but beside it). On the second point, you are quite correct about proper transcription of IPA (I often get so worried about the squiggles that I forget what goes round them). I suppose we should aim for a fully phonetic representation, but in practice this might be untidy and divisive (which dialect do we use?). --Gareth Hughes 20:38, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation 

message: It seems that the template is triggered into sign language mode in one of two ways: by assigning a value to the "signers=" parameter or by familycolor=sign. Oftentimes even an estimate of the number of signers is just not possible — but when familycolor=sign and no "signers=" value is assigned, it seems that the family is still given as "sign language" rather than "unknown" (see Turkish Sign Language). I'm not sure how to change this myself, sorry, but I would like to see the family as "unknown" in both cases.
Also, I don't know how easy it is to make a further change, but I would prefer the when the family is unknown to just have the text "unknown" in the infobox, not "unknown" followed by the language name. (see German Sign Language for example).
Thirdly, the bottom bar of the sign language template has two links - sign language and list of sign languages - very nice! But the sign language link is written as "sign languages" so unless there is a reason for this I'd like to remove the "s". Thanks! ntennis 00:10, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Things would work much better if sign languages used their own infobox, tailored specifically for their needs. -- Netoholic @ 00:43, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

text: You're part of making the consensus.  Unfortunately, using one language template gives "unity" but falls very short on simplicity/elegance.  A separate template would not require any esoteric syntax.  Like you said, you could make changes as needed.  The main language template likewise becomes much simpler, as well.   Keeping the "look" the same is no different than other infoboxs are handled (the WikiProject keeps Template:Infobox Arcade Game and Template:Infobox VG in a common style).  I had created a reasonable Template:Infobox Sign language, but that was prematurely nominated for deletion for somewhat emotional reasons.  It's yours if you want to go ahead with it. -- Netoholic @ 03:07, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The changes ntennis is requesting would be no more or less complex with multiple templates rather than a single one. He's asking for differences in the default presentation of sign languages. Easy enough to implement if people agree they make sense. --CBD ☎ ✉ 16:02, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  The fact that he has to ask someone else to make the changes because this template's code is so complex is the problem. -- Netoholic @ 00:45, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe it's because it's protected too. You probably haven't noticed but conditionals have moved a lot of the formatting out of the template calls and into the template. That means it is easier to modify the template contents. --Gareth Hughes 00:51, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  It's only semi-protected, and even that doesn't seem to have any reason.  And what are you talk about... my version of separate sing language template didn't require any special "formatting" on the article side. -- Netoholic @ 05:50, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Protecting important stuff (here: "used a lot" stuff) isn't that bad. Some templates just shouldn't be treated like articles when editing. There is nothing wrong with doing the change work in a sandbox on the side, presenting it on the talk, gathering consenus for it and then asking an admin to apply it (in the case of full protection). Revert warring forth and back, as you prefer and in-situ surgery is just bad for the servers, something which you usually care a lot. --Adrian Buehlmann 10:14, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Yeah, this isn't really a problem. I've corrected template:language/signnotice so that it bypasses the redirect to sign language (that's point 3 dealt with). You are correct about the way the sign-language options are triggered. The initial idea was that these options would be turned on by having the parameter  defined in the call. However, I then realised that there often isn't adequate data about the number of signers of a given language. That's where 'familycolor=Sign' comes in: it triggers the options without anything needed for . The 'genetic classification' box is designed to build itself out of available information. If it is given nothing else, it has text determined from  with the text of  in bold below. The complete override for this is . If that parameter is defined, its contents will be put into the box instead of the automatic stuff. The first line can be altered separately by using . However, as we are looking at a global solution for sign languages, it seems a bit much to use these workarounds. As I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong), we want the automatic text in the 'genetic classification' box for sign languages to read simply "unknown" (and nothing else) as a default. I'll test it out, and if it works OK, I'll upload it. --Gareth Hughes 20:59, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't do the best job of it, but the infobox should now display as requested for sign languages. --Gareth Hughes 22:42, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Can I suggest getting rid of the term Genetic classification on this template? Guinnog 18:30, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

text: I believe Ksenon was referring to this change to add an alphabet line. Might make sense, though I'd suggest making it optional. Does get complicated with languages which have more than one alphabet used though. 'Moldovan' and Sindarin come to mind. It's somewhat similar to the recent change to show the name of the language in its natural script and might be combined with that. --CBD ☎ ✉ 13:32, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Propose tweaks to template 

message: Could we get a bot to make the change from  to ? — mark ✎ 13:20, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no significant benefit in replacing that text, since the redirect leaves everything working fine.  Update it later when there is some substantive change to the articles, or if a change is made to how this template is used. -- Netoholic @ 15:12, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks, it's good to know that. I'll just change it in articles when I come across it during normal editing. — mark ✎ 15:38, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bot 

message: Several infoboxes have pronunciation information; but there's no line listed for pronunciation in the gray box above. Is the IPA template automatically included in the pronunciation line, or does it need to be added separately? Angr/talk 05:57, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Angr. The sub-template that deals with this option is still living at template:language/pronunciation. The contents of template:IPA have been subst-ed into it, so there's no need to add it again. I'll add a line to the instructions about it. --Gareth Hughes 12:15, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've been trying to think of a better label for this parameter. My best idea so far is "Native name". What do you think? Of course the instructions will need to be clear about how this differs from the nativename parameter, but I think that can be managed. With the IPA label and format it seems very obvious that the information is pronuncation, so more useful to have a label saying what it's the pronuncation of. Gailtb 19:19, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation 

message: I've finally got around to adding a sub-template that allows optional display of writing system. The change to the main template is this diff, and the sub-template that it calls is template:Infobox Language/script. The set up is basic: it produces an extra row below 'language family' with the left-hand column showing "Writing system:" and the right-hand column displaying the contents of . To include the row, simply add |script=foo anywhere in an article's template call.
Next comes the question of how to manage the content of this parameter. I propose that we keep it very simple: the infobox should link to a article on the writing system, not be a mini-article on it. Some writing systems, like Latin, are used with only minor variation by hundreds of languages. Therefore, I suggest that the writing system for English be described as "Latin (English variant)". Any thoughts? --Gareth Hughes 19:00, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Great idea, variants are also important (German, Scandinavian, Turkic, etc.). But I was also thinking of a parameter descriping it as either pictorial, alphabetic, iconographic, etc.? This would be helpful in classifying any language- ancient, modern, etc. Ksenon 19:51, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it should be simpler still than Gareth suggested. I would say the writing system for English should just be described as "Latin", period. Angr/talk 19:54, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I think keeping it simple is the way forward. There is no need to describe 'Latin' as 'alphabetic' if the link takes you to an article that says as much. However, I suggested the possibility of including variants because we do have some variant-specific articles for writing systems, like English alphabet. --Gareth Hughes 20:01, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, but those can be linked to from the article. No need for it all in the infobox. Angr/talk 20:12, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Egyptian language needs a template along with writing system info. Ksenon 05:28, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've put up a suggested template at talk:Egyptian language. --Gareth Hughes 13:46, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

text: I don't understand what you want. The article Writing system says the term "script" is equivalent, and it's a full-fledged article, not a stub. What "enhancement" are you looking for? Angr/talk 15:18, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I wonder whether there is a diff between writing systems and script because you all use the term writing system which is btw longer than the term script. If there is a diff than I would like this to be stated in the article "writing system" - no big need to say so here. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 09:32, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Finally someone did it  it seems we have to change this template. script != writing system  Tobias Conradi (Talk) 03:33, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

text: I think that, when we have an article on a given language's writing system (English alphabet for example), we should link to that in the infobox. However, I think it is also important to say which general system is being used (in this case, Latin alphabet). If, for example we have an article about X language and the infobox says it' written in X alphabet, knowing nothing about X we can only assume that this is some special script used only for it. However, if the infobox tells us Arabic abugida (X variant), we know that the Arabic script (linked) is used, and we link the specfic X alphabet article that tells us that lines are drawn under various letters to represent the ejective consonants found in X but not in Arabic. Thinking about the examples above, we should say Latin alphabet (Irish variant), Fraktur isn't really a writing system but a variation of the German variant, Coptic alphabet (based on Greek) and Gothic alphabet. I would like to see us adopt a format that is both concise and clear. --Gareth Hughes 16:29, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, that makes sense. The reason Irish alphabet is a red link is that the article is at Irish orthography. Angr/talk 16:35, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've put a redirect in there, thanks. --Gareth Hughes 16:56, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

text: What makes Coptic an alphabet based on Greek, rather than a variant of Greek? It was treated as a variant by Unicode until recently. How do you decide what's a variant and what's a script while staying NPOV? --Ptcamn 20:13, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Seven (eight including jinkim) letters of the Coptic alphabet are derived from Demotic Egyptian. Unicode's usage of the Greek block for Coptic was seen by many as a poor compromise. I think that Coptic writing is sufficiently different from Greek not to be considered a variant: many of the letter forms are of a different style, and the extra letters impede reading by anyone who does not know them. I think a couple of extra letters (like ɛ and ɔ used in a number of African languages) could be added without saying that this is a new alphabet, but more letters, different style and different phonemic mapping suggests that this more than a variant. --Gareth Hughes 20:36, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Cyrillic is derived from Greek too, but it's considered a separate alphabet, not a variant of the Greek alphabet. Angr/talk 20:48, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Writing system 

message: I listed a whole bunch of templates that are basically copies for specific languages of the now deleted Template:ll. Since we got  to be deleted by the votes of the people at this page, perhaps you all could vote again here. Thanks. --Khoikhoi 05:54, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Language templates on TFD 

message: Since you like to classify languages, please take a look Talk:Linguistic typology#Proposal: Standard typology description in articles about languages. `'mikka (t) 01:12, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal: Standard language typology description 

message: I think the Infobox Language template can be rewritten by including Template:!, so some (not all, I think) sub-templates such as Template:Infobox Language/agency can be disused and hence reducing the need to load so many sub-templates. What do you think? --Hello World! 14:53, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  sub-templates 

message: How about adding a "literacy rate" box next to script? --Ptcamn 01:41, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure that would be very meaningful. It's the kind of statistic that would normally be given for a country rather than a language. It might be possible for languages with a localised distribution, but for a language like French or Spanish which is spoken by very different populations across the world, I think it would be hard to get the info, and probably not very useful to anyone. Gailtb 09:04, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I also think it would be hard to get the info. Also if you have it, what does it mean? I know of African societies that have a reported literacy rate of zero, yet they are writing in Ajami script or in an indigenous script. Literacy is a thoroughly problematic notion. — mark ✎ 13:51, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Literacy 

message: little bit offtopic, but you may like: :Category:Redirects from ISO 639. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 11:02, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  OT ISO 639 redirects 

message: The content of Template:Infobox Language/IPA notice doesn't display in a new TR but creates another column of this own, obviously because its opening "|-" is swallowed as the content of the previous cell and not interpreted properly. Apparently this has been going for weeks. The template is such a mess I have no way of fixing it. WTF can't you people KISS this bloody thing?!? --Malyctenar 17:41, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree completely. However, the task of fixing this is a little beyond my abilities. --Andrew c 18:31, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

text: The translations are not really a good idea because they would just become revert war fodder. Besides which, they are oftentimes already in some of the other wiki sites. -Yupik 22:01, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Template/table badly broken 

message: I just came across this edit. I know that it seems rather insignificant, but I believe that it is impossible for any language not to have an ISO 639-2 code (unlike ISO 639-1 which is confined to major languages so there can be 'none', and ISO 639-3 which, although extensive, is so specific that there are gaps so that, rather than 'none', the entry '—' may be appropriate). When I first set it up, the column for ISO 639-2 codes was given the default text 'to be added', because I wanted it to flag up the fact that someone has yet to look it up, rather than no code being appropriate. I would challenge anyone to find a language for which an ISO 639-2 code cannot be given (the code might not be very focused but it will fit). — Gareth Hughes 19:19, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right. At the very least any language could be called  for "Miscellaneous languages". —Angr 19:41, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, this now looks petty, and appears to have shades of an insult. — Gareth Hughes 20:38, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ISO 2 codes in the infobox 

message: The usage doco for this template is (non-intuitively) presently at  template talk:Infobox Language/Usage, also on a few other subpages. Any objections if these were to be consolidated and transcluded onto the main template page itself, via the WP:DOC method?--cjllw | TALK 07:30, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No objection here: it's very weird to have it where it is. --Yksin 01:33, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Template doco location 

message: Allow me to be the first to say that I don't like the new design. But maybe it's just because I'm used to the old one. --Ptcamn 13:24, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I allow you . I don't mind being reverted (just please, in that case, undo only the first revision of mine, I (think I) made a few more useful changes). Personally, I think the old design was too... oldish, and the font too big; I applied design elements from . Just, I'd like to hear a couple of other opinions; WP:BRD. Duja► 13:36, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I personally like it. It looks more in line with many other infoboxes now, and more modern. If only someone would do this to the taxobox. Good work! Max Naylor 14:59, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I hadn't even noticed it until I saw this comment. But I like it too; it's considerably more compact and more legible. —Angr 16:15, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: nice new infobox --Andersmusician $ 15:27, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New design