Talk:Kingdom of Armenia (antiquity)

message: This article at the beginning mentions that the kingdom was founded in 190 BC after the desctruction of the Seleucid Empire. They weren't destroyed for another 130+ years. They were beaten by the Romans, yes, but not destroyed or even close.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.125.109.218 (talk) 00:43, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. I believe the Seleucids had merely lost their influence over Armenia at that time, and were conquered by Tigranes the Great at a later date. See the article about the Artaxiad Dynasty. --Davo88 (talk) 04:23, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Seleucid destruction in 190 BC? 

message: I think it highly unlikely that such a small area kingdom would have such a large population no later than 400 AD. UltimateDarkloid (talk) 19:17, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Population 

message: The latest version of this article does not respect Wikipedia standards. Please provide references and wikify the text. Also, the "Origins" section is too long. Thank you.--Davo88 (talk) 19:03, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent edits 

message: I removed all the contents added in the last two months. The material was very low quality (POV, reads like a middle school research, unsourced) and anyway it should have gone to a different page, this one is about the 190BC-387AD Kingdom of Armenia while the removed material referred to all the History of Armenia. I don't think there was anything who could be salvaged, the existing pages (like Orontid dynasty) are already more detailed and better written and sourced, and most of the kings who were improperly listed here have their dedicated page with a lot more sourced information. GhePeU (talk) 23:04, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: So, apparently User:Aram-van is going to keep readd that contents indefinitely, and apparently he is not even going to discuss it in this Talk Page. What's the procedure now? 82.52.180.115 (talk) 17:47, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree the edits were not an improvement and I have reverted. This is the article about the historical kindom. The article for Armenian irredentism etc. would be at Greater Armenia. --dab (𒁳) 18:40, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deleted bad contents 

message: This article is being discussed at Wikipedia:Fringe theories/Noticeboard#Kingdom of Armenia. Be aware that if people continue to make large reverts before consensus is reached here, admins may fully protect the article. Anyone who has strong views about the proper scope of this article is urged to take part in the move discussion and offer their reasoning. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 20:57, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe the discussion at Wikipedia:Fringe theories/Noticeboard#Kingdom of Armenia was about the Safrastyan user about inaccurate edits to the article, not about the discussion about moving the article (judging by the date the user posted it, and the edits that were being made then). Kentronhayastan (talk) 21:34, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: of course, your move is perfectly arguable. I am not convinced it was the best solution, but it certainly isn't a case for WP:FTN :) --dab (𒁳) 18:34, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussion at [[WP:FTN]] 

message: I had originally disambiguated the Kingdom of Armenia into Antiquity and Middle Ages (executed terribly, completely the fault of my ignorance of how Wikipedia worked, I apologize). Now I believe it would be better to have one article for both: Kingdom of Armenia. Its history would have a gap between 428 and 884 of foreign rule (Sassanid and Arabic). This is much like the Byzantine Empire, which fell in 1204 until reformed in 1261, yet it's still one article. Sure, the gap is much larger, but does it matter? I want others' opinion.Kentronhayastan (talk) 03:20, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: What if we create an article Armenia Major instead of Kingdom of Armenia? In Armenian historiography, the term Mets Hayk is used for the four dynasties (Yervanduni, Artashesyan, Arshakuni, Bagratuni). Just a thought. --Երևանցի talk  03:55, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  Armenia Major, though, is a name many people don't like to use. I had attempted to use that name for the kingdom in antiquity but various people always changed it to Kingdom of Armenia. It seems people prefer to select the name that includes the type of government (kingdom, empire, republic, etc). Besides, Armenia Major was more of a geographic name to differentiate it from the other Armenian regions of Armenia Minor and Sophene (think of Greater Armenia and Lesser Armenia; today we just simply call it "Armenian Highland"). It was also used to refer to the kingdom, but that's much like China or the Kingdom of Italy adopting the regional name rather than the name of the majority ethnic group. I think Kingdom of Armenia must still be a broad article like a glorified disambiguation page without a country infobox because it covers a period with several foreign rule (successors and predecessors would be too confusing). We could include the country infobox in the articles for the dynasties much like Byzantine Empire and Byzantine Empire under the Macedonian dynasty, Komnenos dynasty, Angelos dynasty, etc. Or maybe we should just leave it as it is now... Kentronhayastan (talk) 18:46, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge Kingdoms of Armenia from Antiquity and Middle Ages in [[Kingdom of Armenia]]

message: The information you are suggesting to change has been in place since 2011, and even prior to this is was 190 BC. If you believe this to be incorrect, you can make an edit, but if your edit is reverted, please to not begin an edit war. Discuss it here first. The Kingdom of Armenia began around 321 BC.http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/armenia-ii
Mach Chahin (2001). Kingdom of Armenia. Surrey: Routledge. p185–190.
Vahan M. Kurkjian (2012). A History of Armenia. New York: Bibliotech Press. p52.
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/35178/Armenia/44264/Cultural-life#toc129456
http://www.armenian-history.com/Nyuter/HISTORY/ArmeniaBC/armenia_as_xenophon_saw_it.htm
http://www.armenian-history.com/Nyuter/HISTORY/ArmeniaBC/alexander_the_great_and_his_succ.htm
The dates overlap
:Extending the date of the Kingdom of Armenia to 553 BC would make its dates overlap with its predecessor Satrapy of Armenia. You claim the dates that were there before your edits also overlap, but the Satrapy of Armenia (Armina) ended in 331 BC, and 10 years later, the Kingdom of Armenia was formed from it in 321 BC. How does this overlap? What you are suggesting is similar to using the dates 509 BC– 476 AD for the Roman Empire instead of 27 BC–476 AD by including the dates 509 BC–27 BC of its predecessor Roman Republic.
The word "satrapy" is included in the title
:That's because the Kingdom was sometimes demoted to a Satrapy for brief periods in its history.
The capital of the city was Van
:The Orontid Capitals were Armavir and Yervandashat, not Van. Van was the capital of Urartu, so it's likely it was also the capital of the Orontids for some time, but there is no evidence for this. Van was never the capital of the Kingdom of Armenia. The state mentioned in the legendary/traditional history of Armenia was the Kingdom of Van (Urartu).
It is mentioned in many places that Armenia began in 6th century BC
:Yes it is, and it did. 6th century BC is the first time the word "Armenia" was recorded, not as a Kingdom, though. This article is about the Kingdom which undoubtedly began in 190BC and can be argued to have begun as far as 321BC earliest. Prior to that, it is unquestionable that there was no Kingdom of Armenia, but a province (satrapy) of Persia called Armenia. It began as a Satrapy of Achaemenid Persia in the 6th century BC (which is why we have the article Satrapy of Armenia), which then became an independent kingdom in 321BC (which is what this article is for).
Please address these four points before reverting. Thank you.Kentronhayastan (talk) 23:29, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit Warring on Dates and Van as capital ([[User:198.228.216.35]])

message: It says at the end Political Geography section that Armenian Empire was large as 3 000 000 km2 under Tigranes the Great and that Parthia was it's vassal but there is no source to these. I have not found anything to prove this so is this information false or true? Someone should put a source to it.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.146.240.177 (talk) 10:14, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Armenian Empires size 

message: Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that :File:Roman East 50-en.svg will be appearing as picture of the day on December 23, 2015. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2015-12-23. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:30, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[:File:Roman East 50-en.svg]] to appear as POTD soon 

message: The article should profile: "Language, written, the ethnic composition of Greater Armenia". And there should take account of what these facts:
 (http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/armenia-ii)
(http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/armenia-i). Dehqan (talk) 17:50, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Language, written, the ethnic composition of Greater Armenia 

message: I removed these Area figures from the infobox here: . The citation needed tags have been in the article for many years. The note says  — all content in an article needs to be reliably sourced. The first thing I checked was academic sources discussing biblical geography because 69BC is around that era and I had a lot of sources for this easily accessible — I couldn't find anything. Other academic sources indicate there are some complicated issues in the historiography  — I will be looking for more WP:RS. Chahin says there are some problems with Plutarch (which is certainly believable), but it will take more work to sort it out. I don't think it should be restored until these issues are hashed out.Seraphim System (talk) 05:18, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of Area figures from infobox 

message: My concern is that several people corrected that before Christianity in Armenia the native pagan faith was the main religion. Zoroastrianism only had a brief period. Either it has to say "Native Armenian pagan faith" or both, but stating only zoroastrianism is falsification of history, as several others mentioned as well. HistoryOfIran changes all Armenian articles in favor of Iran. Zoroastrianism was never as big as the native faith in Armenia, which is logical by the way. 2003:6:136F:6947:9CA2:1C43:8934:5370 (talk) 02:49, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Native Armenian faith 

message: Comment on population 9 Nov 2010: 
"In regards to the flags, I think that the flag of the Artaxiad dynasty should remain as there is substantial evidence of the banner being real as it was reconstructed on this armenian blog post: https://www.peopleofar.com/2017/01/30/reconstructing-artaxiad-flag/, not to mention that the same flag exists in slightly different forms all across the web, legitimizing it further. Now, in regards to the Arsacid dynasty flag, I think that it should not be included as it appears in no reliable sources, and is most likely fabricated. Not to mention that this flag is very unlikely as it resembles the Artaxiad flag, which would be very unlikely as the Arsacids and Artaxiads were rival factions."
(End)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sci Show With Moh (talk • contribs) 20:15, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed it wherever I could find it. As far as I can tell, these and many other flags claiming to be historical are merely the creation of blogs like PeopleOfAr and are not attested in any scholarly source. Revolution Saga (talk) 09:05, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  In regards to the flags