Talk:Noise, vibration, and harshness

message: Since "Noise, vibration, and harshness" is not a company, place or person, but rather a way of describing noises etc in vehicles, the title should be converted to lower-case. OSX (talk • contributions) 06:48, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This is policy not a guideline: "Convention: Do not capitalize second and subsequent words unless the title is almost always capitalized in English" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Naming_conventions#Name_construction eg as a specific relevant example Art Nouveau, which is not the name of a company, place or person. Try google, 8 out of 9 non wiki hits on the first page capitalize it. In the automotive industry, in which I have 30 years of experience, nvh is always referred to as Noise,Vibration and Harshness, or NVH, or Noise and Vibration, or N&V. Usually NVH.   Greg Locock (talk) 07:15, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree with you. Noise, Vibration and Harshness is usually capitalized, but I still don't believe that there is any reason to do so. I have seen NVH expressed as "noise, vibration, and harshness" in Wheels magazine as shown by Google. OSX (talk • contributions) 08:28, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Absolutely agreed. It's only the initialism NVH which needs to be capitalised. – Kieran T (talk) 13:23, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Because that is the name of the field. other examples - Philosophy, Politics and Economics Art Nouveau."Convention: Do not capitalize second and subsequent words unless the title is almost always capitalized in English" Which bit don't you understand? It /is/ almost always capitalised.  Have you ever wondered why the three words occur so often in that order? However, since apparently Wheels magazine is the ultimate technical reference for wiki articles on automotive subjects (sarcasm) then I suppose further discussion is irrelevant. Greg Locock (talk) 21:20, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Greg, amidst your sarcasm, you say "It /is/ almost always capitalised."  One of the points people are taking issue with is that that remains to be proved (to them). – Kieran T (talk) 21:30, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Apparently my suggested google search was a waste of time. I'm not sure what references I have that outweigh Wheels' reputation for accuracy and authority amongst wiki editors. You tell me, all I have is professional textbooks on the subject, eg Noise and Vibration by White and Walker. And naturally enough, they tend to capitalise the subject.  Greg Locock (talk) 22:02, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, a better google search, on www.sae.org, and the three terms, suggest that the requirement "almost always capitalized" is not met. So I guess the move is at least defensible. That is to say, I do not agree with the proposal, but, given the specialized nature of the references required to argue my case, and the fact that ultimately the capitalization of an article's title is not worth going to the barricades for, and that there is at least some evidence the other way, that I would rather spend time dealing with the many errors of fact and lack of NPOV on wiki rather than mere font-worship. Greg Locock (talk) 02:14, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

text: Sure. You can make the change and I won't oppose it or attempt to revert it, at least until a suitable RS supporting NVH rather than Nvh can be found, which, frankly, is unlikely. Greg Locock (talk) 22:46, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

text: It seems that "noise, vibration and harshness" are 3 words that are being used according to their ordinary meaning.  Philosophy, Politics and Economics is capitalized because it is the name of an academic major, and so it seems not to be the best analogy.  If the all-caps version were the legal name of the concept (or if it were referred-to that way in a piece of legislation, for example), then I would oppose the move; otherwise, I support it.  The abbreviation should remain all-caps.  69.140.152.55 (talk) 00:53, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Noise, vibration, and harshness