Talk:Basques/Archive 1

message: "parochial": Do you mean "patrilocal", "patriarchal", or "patrilineal"? -phma
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This entry is crying out for subheadings: language, culture, history, etc. Wetman 12:16, 21 Nov 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: I've reworked this using Wikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic Groups Template. Hope that addresses your concern. -- Jmabel 23:16, 16 Feb 2004 (UTC)

message: The use of "blood type" is inconsistent with the definitions given in . (I've posted similar comments on Talk:blood type and Talk:Rhesus.) Fpahl 09:45, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  blood type 

message: In what kind of research have the Germanic tribes been shown to come from Asia of all places? It sounds like a very original and interesting hypothesis, and I'd like to have some sources that claim this. The ethnogenesis of the "Proto-Germanic people" is generally regarded as having taken place AFTER the Indo-European invasion, and in southern Scandinavia (and in adjoining parts of Germany). Wiglaf
I agree. The only feasible definition of "Germanic" is the sound-changes particular to these languages, i.e. *p > f etc. This must have happened sometime during the 1st millennium BC, and at that time the germans-to-be were almost certainly already in northern Europe.
Anyway, this article abounds with romantic/hollywood-style history. "Germanic migrations" "sweep" the Celts away and "overwhelm" the Roman empire. This is naive. Of course there were battles, and of course there was competition for territory, but while in a hollywood picture, the final battle takes about a quarter of the whole story, in reality such dramatic events are rare and often are but the culmination of a gradual process. By the time of the germanic migrations, the "Celts" were fully romanized, the Roman Empire was collapsing, and there was simply a power vacuum that could be filled by a new breed of aristocracy. I think we should avoid evoking images of barbarian warrior princes arriving from the dark north and slaying druids as they advance. -- Dbachmann 11:10, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Thousands of years in the same region

message: Well, nire Euskaldunak, I've managed to stumble upon both. Which is correct? Which is official? Or should we just e-mail the Euskaltzaindia? Muhamedmesic 22:17, 3 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''Euskara'' vs ''Euskera'' 

message: : Until the French Revolution (and, to some extent, beyond that in Spain), Euskal Herria retained its fueros -- separate laws,  taxes and law courts -- respected by both French and Spanish monarchs. With the fall of the ancien régime, the fueros were completely abolished in France, which came under a central government that abolished all local privileges. In Spain, with some irony, through the various civil wars of the Nineteenth Century the fueros were upheld by the nominally absolutist Carlists and opposed by the victorious constitutional forces. Thus the same wars that brought relative liberty to most of Spain abolished most of the traditional liberties of the Basques.
:However, the Spanish provinces remained with the widest autonomy in Peninsular Spain.
:After the Spanish Civil War, the regime of General Franco considered Biscay and Gipuzkoa as "traitor provinces" abolishing the remains of their autonomy, but Navarre and Alava maintained small local police forces and some tax self-government.
-- Error 02:44, 5 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Basque history removed from [[Basque Country]]

message: is it really English ? sounds like Spanish to me, what about "Vascons" ?
It's French. -- Jmabel 19:40, Sep 4, 2004 (UTC)
:I thought it was Latin, but then it should probably be Vascones. Strabo's Greek has Ouaskones.
Well, the English is Vascons and that's where our article is, so that's what I've changed the link to, since whoever wrote that article presumably gave the matter some thought. I believe the Latin singular is Vascon and plural Vasconi, but I wouldn't bet on it. -- Jmabel 06:53, Sep 5, 2004 (UTC)
Sorry. Basques, yes; Gascons, yes, but "Vascons" in English?  Where does that come from?  Incidentally, the Latin is Vasco singular and Vascones plural.  
And what is this "Vasconne Cohort"?  There is no cohort of that name in the records.  It looks like the I fida Vardullorum equitata, a cohors milliaria attested at Castlecary under Antoninus Pius, at Corbridge and Lanchester under Marcus Aurelius, and High Rochester in the third century [Breeze and Dobson, Hadrian's Wall, Penguin, Harmondsworth 1987 p 252].  But are we sure the Vardulli were Basques? The "origins" section of this article suggests doubt.   Mark O'Sullivan 10:29, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  vasconnes ? 

message: Given that my concerns about POV have not been answered, and that the paragraph does not seem so central to the article that it must be there, I have cut it and moved it here to the talk page: 
A new Spanish propaganda recently has tried to link the Basque population and language with Northern Africa's Berber stock; they have even tried to claim linguistic evidence to this effect (see the section on language) which has proved totally false. Recent evidence  shows the y chromosomes of Basques, Western Irish and Welsh are very similar.   Convined genetic and linguistic studies have shown that Basques have retained, in addition to their language, believed to be descended from an original language spoken in Europe, some of their original genetic characteristics.  
If someone can sort this out in terms of who actually says what, and what their credentials are, fine, then it belongs back in the article. Again, I have no idea what are the facts of the matter, but this is written like a tract, not an encyclopedia article. -- Jmabel | Talk 04:15, Oct 25, 2004 (UTC)
:Well, I made the last changes. But I put a link to Cavalli-Sforza workings, even taking it from there and changing it a little bit. But there are lots of articles about the issue, most of them from the international scientist community. And of course I've plenty links.
:Just today I've found a new one [] about a new discovered gene that has been given a Basque name cause its discovering has been made thanks to the study on four Basque families and a fifth non-basque. Sure it can be found also in some scientific publication.
:And about the Spanish propaganda, yes, perhapps it needs its proper space, but it is hard to understand the Basque case without some mention and history to the long campaign of anti-basque or basque-bashing propaganda. Which could be seen also in some parts of this Wikipedia article also. Although in a general viow it is great, there were some little references to suppossed "racism" or that on Ancient history, Romans and Celt neighbourghs that had such sense.
:Idiazabal 11:43, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Cut paragraph