Talk:Macaca (term)

message: I removed the sentence about George Allen because it was POV at best, was poorly written, did not fit where placed in the article, and really didn't serve to further the understanding of the term Macaca as a racial slur.  Beatdown 01:24, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sentence Removed

message: Please do not remove citation needed tag unless a verifiable reference is added to resolve the issue of different pronunciations for the two different words.  The word macaque doesn't automatically equal the word macaca any more than homo equals human ... or equals ape, or equals chimp.  Still need a cite. - 69.19.14.31 04:08, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Since the edit eliminating "macaque no longer = macaca", then all references to macaque only are unnecessary and should be removed. - 66.82.9.73 05:37, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citation 

message: Request for comments: I put the nationmaster definition and the blog source info back in substantially rephrased and in the 'Usage' section, rather than in the more definitive top section, because the blog source particularly was one of the first to research the word and demonstrated current use in the racist community. I thought it was probably more germane than how Captain Haddock uses the word, so I was suprised to see it gone again. I'm going to post this message in the talk section and ask for comments about reinstating the info. I'm suprised to be accused of 'flinging links' because checking the history of this page will show that I have provided nearly all of the sources on the origins and usage of the word other than the Edgerton references in footnotes 2 and 3, and I believe that the are all legitimate, scholarly, and valid. Richardjames444 12:34, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The removed section in question was: 
*Macaca is listed as an ethnic slur in current online dictionaries, and is used as such by white power activists and members of racist organizations. 
The references were:
Nationmaster.com list of ethnic slurs and Jeffrey Feldman on racist use of Macaque/Macaca in online forums
Since they're descriptive of usage rather than addressing definition, I think that they should be added back in. Richardjames444 12:39, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Request for comments

message: Excuse me, but was this page created specifically in reference to the Allen controversy?  I see lots of claims about how macaca is used as an ethnic slur, but absolutely no citation.  If Allen's "inside knowledge" of French prompted him to use this "slur" that "no one else will understand," (not that knowledge of a language brings with it knowledge of all the slang and insults used in that language) why didn't he use the real slur: macaque?  The first edit I can see for this page ever was after the Allen controversy broke.  Let's not go around creating controversy, eh?  If this is really a commonly used slur, find the citation.  Otherwise, all you're doing here is making up a story that doesn't exist. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Datroy (talk • contribs) .
:You are correct in that this page was created as a result of the Allen controversy. That does not make it any less of a real word. Often, articles don't exist simply because nobody who knows about it has bothered to create them yet. That was the case with this article. modargo 04:33, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It would seem to make sense to acknowledge this fact up front on this page. Part of the controversy here is whether Allen actually was using a known slur. For those who don't do any digging, the lack of a disclaimer lends credibility to those who attacking Allen -- but it is dishonest at best. --Xnilo (talk) 18:55, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Legitimacy? 

message: Like the idea of the article -- but to convince people of its accuracy, doesn't it need some linkage to credible sourcing? At the moment, readers more or less have to take our word for it. --GGreeneVa 12:20, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It was removed from enwiki in June for not being in English . Phr (talk) 09:13, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Perhaps so -- but if that's the case, let's source it. My problem with this article isn't the politics, it's the etymology; if people are going to believe the description of 'macaca' as slur, it needs to be sourced to the O.E.D., the book cited above, or wherever. Anything would do, as long as it's credible. --GGreeneVa 19:29, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Apologies - I've only just started using VandalProof and am making a few mistakes. It was the double-square brackets that confused me. Feel free to revert the edit - you could have done so anyway, and maybe put in an edit summary so it was more clear what you were doing. If you have a problem with a revert I've mad using VP, please let me know on my talk page, as I'll be more likely to see it. And, please, No Personal Attacks. I don't mind myself, but I do agree with the policy in general. --Jim (Talk) 02:04, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Urbandictionary is a user-defined work that is not really verifiable or reliable, and the entry for makak is dated really recently- it still predates the Allen controversy, but it doesn't present a credible source. Richardjames444 12:49, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Documentation? 

message: Starting with the first sentence "Macaca (also written as macaque) ..." there are no cites.  In both English and French dictionaries "macaque" (pronounced mə-kăk’ or mə-käk’) rhymes with "a back" or "the sack".  In all other Franco-English words (plaque, opaque, plaque, antique, unique, clique, bisque, toque, baroque, oblique, and torque) the -que is a "k" sound; making all further references to "macaque" irrelevant.  
Of the references to columnist Taki Theodoracopulos, #8 is unavailable for verification and #9 has no connection to the alleged slur.  Reference 13, The Chicago Tribune's  Swamp Blog, like most other blogs, fails Wiki's reliable, published sources and neutral point of view policies. 
I'd discuss this further, but Wiki's founder wrote, "There seems to be a terrible bias among some editors that some sort of random speculative "I heard it somewhere" pseudo information is to be tagged with a "needs a cite" tag.  Wrong.  It should be removed, aggressively, unless it can be sourced.  This is true of all information, but it is particularly true of negative information about living persons."
Article material solely using references 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 13 will be removed. Wikipedia's burden of evidence lies with the editors, and outlandish claims beg strong sources.
66.82.9.56 17:52, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, that's a sticky wicket - is the word itself worthy of added attention, or is the use of the word by a living, breathing politician, especially when the use of the word is brushed aside as essentially irrelevant? I think we can all agree that if Mr. Allen used a more common slur to insult Mr. Sidarth, there would be no question about him being wrong. But since I, a guy who considers himself something of a minor wordsmith, had never even heard of the term, its sudden use in public by a supposedly respected politician made it shocking, interesting and worth writing about under its entry in wikipedia. I think the slur's sudden, splashy and unforntunate appearance is entirely worthy of a wikipedia entry. Besides, it's true and documented, is it not? 808 19:04, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: 808 and Melsod, do either of you speak African French?  Here we've got a French-speaking politician who likely has had some exposure to that dialect (see the info about his mother) and he uses a slur from that dialect.  That's very interesting even though most English or non-African French speakers wouldn't know the term.  In fact the obscurity may be why he let himself use the term in public.  As for the Allen's use of the word, it's gotten a lot of press coverage, which is the main thing that makes the word suitable for an encyclopedia article instead of a wiktionary entry. Phr (talk) 22:57, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

text: I re-added the "mohawk" comment because it's interesting, and most certainly is about the word macaca. If one is to suggest that a known racist term was uttered by someone suspected of being a racist for the reason that it was merely a variation/diminuitive of another, unrelated term, the thought deserves to be included. It may be odd, but it's there in print. 808 20:29, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Including a bit on the mohawk is fine. However, what I really want to prevent is this article becoming a big messy repitition of all the information that's already in the George Allen article. It's both unnecessary and stylistically bad. This page is about the word; the incident should only be described to the extent necessary to give context to the article. The inclusion of the basic details of the response of Allen and his campaign is a part of that, but it should not go beyond that. (Which is why I reverted the edit of an anonymous user that added another sentence giving unnecessary detail on the mohawk angle. If people are interesting, they can go to the George Allen article.) modargo 21:42, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

text: The context, that he then invited an american to america, is suggestive of racism, but doesn't establish it IMO.  The whole of the comments may just suggest a mean-spiritedness and tactlessness.  Supposedly "macaca" as used by Allen is a portmanteau of mohawk and caca (see the Allen article), but how Sidarth or anybody in that audience was supposed to know that, and why a politician should be critiquing hairstyles or using the word caca, I don't know.  I don't know if this deserves an article, but it could develop into one depending on how much info on the word can be found and how much it stays in the news. Шизомби 00:58, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Schizombie, I dig your pedagouge-like use of portmanteau, but I can't find a reference for it in the Post article...could you add that distinction to the article and cite it? After all, it makes warped sense - mohawk+caca = mocaca. Kinda like Ninevah + chigger = oh, but that's naughty. Hope George Allen doesn't come up with that for some other Webb operative on the campaign trail. 808 02:56, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The source for the information about the Mohawk + caca thing is a hotline blog posting. modargo 03:07, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality? 

message: Complete reworking to take the focus off the Allen incident and onto the word itself. I'm not sure that ref #1 is good enough for where it has been placed, I had tracked it down initially and situated it in a less critical spot. Richardjames444 17:53, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Awesome -- awesome, awesome, awesome. Just the trick we needed to make this article credible. --GGreeneVa 18:14, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lots of new formatting 

message: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/outlook/4125006.html Mathiastck 14:02, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ""This fellow here, over here with the yellow shirt, Macaca, or whatever his name is. ... He's following us around everywhere. And it's just great," Allen said to appreciative laughter.
Doubtless no one present knew what "macaca" meant, but subsequently, those three syllables have caused a tectonic shift in the political plates. Literally, it's the name of a monkey common to North Africa and Asia; figuratively, it's a racial slur in some parts of the world.
And in the United States, effective last Friday, it's an eponym for "major political boo-boo."" http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/outlook/4125006.html Mathiastck 14:03, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

text: IE stuff like this is being made cafepress.com/macaca Mathiastck 17:05, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  This page is about to get a lot more traffic. 

message: Please do not move this page to Macaca without a discussion. The main meaning for Macaca is the genus Macaca. The common name for this genus is Macaque which is why Macaca redirects there. Furthermore the slur is derived from the main meaning of the word. Joelito (talk) 16:53, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page move 

message: The new revision is obviously biased and has absoultley no citing information, just partisan hackery. The use of "Macaca" as a racial epithet is somewhat well documented on the internet and throughout the recent coverage of Allen's use of "Macaca" in a campaign rally. I'd prefer not to edit this myself because I'm realitivley inexperinced with Wikipedia and due to the touchy nature of the subject I'd like to see someone with a bit more experince fix this one up.
zcflint05
I am against protecting this article.  Mathiastck 13:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article needs to be rewritten and then protected 

message: In the George Allen section, it says, "Immediately following his second description of Sidarth as 'Macaca', Allen said, 'Welcome to America and the real world of Virginia,' which some interpret as highlighting Sidarth's race and national background. Alternatively, some interpret the comment as referring to a contrast between Allen touring rural Virginia and Webb visiting a 'bunch of Hollywood movie moguls.'"
There is no citation for the secondary interpretation, which is not found in either the George Felix Allen or the related election article. (There's a real question of whether the "welcome to America" part of the incident belongs in the Macaca article—it currently is not mentioned in the Allen article.) In any case, without a link to a credible source (i.e., not a partisan blogger), I believe the interpretation should be removed.--RattBoy 10:05, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting reference. Thanks for posting it. However, though it appears to address the "Virginia" part, Sen. Allen avoids talking about the "America" part. Though some people from what they call the "Heartland" appear to believe that Hollywood isn't part of the real "America"—since it's been populated by libruls like Reagan, Schwarzeneggar, Heston, Bono, Eastwood, Disney, and Patricia Heaton—Hollywood is, in fact, located in the United States of America. So he never did address the apparent jingoism inherent in the slurs he cast at Sidarth.--RattBoy 16:37, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Welcome to America 

message: One question regarding the use of Macaca or Macaque by Senator Allen was how would this aw-shucks son of a popular football coach know this little-used Belgian-French epithet?  
The answer may have become apparent with recent reporting from Channel 9 CBS News in Washington DC.  The Senator would have become familiar with that slur because his mother was of Algerian-Jewish ancestry and that community used the term when referring to poorly behaved persons of color.  
I first heard in used in Toulon France in 1976 while at the Naval Shipyard there by my girl-friend referring to some of my friends (of any color) who were not behaving correctly.  She said it originally meant negroes but was expanded to include any one who did not conform to accepted norms.
I do not know if the Senator was using the word as the French and Belgian overlords used it or if he used it in the sense that my girl-friend did when he referred to Mr. Webb's cameraman but in any event it did show how we'll react to any nuance-bone the media throws us.
:Look just below this window and there's a blurb about verifiable content.69.19.14.24 23:43, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  How did George Allen know a "french-colonial" epithet? 

message: How do we explain the implied meaning behind Macacawitz? Allen is not Jewish but his mother's family is. How do we explain why it was offensive? --Gbleem 00:18, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How's this? Schi 01:01, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Macawitz 

message: We have another one (User: Lence)
This seems to refer to te Turkish name for Hungarian language in fact, nothing to do with Macacas. LHOON 22:15, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Interesting 

message: I removed the citation that was mentioned here: ( http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/01/07/word.of.the.year/index.html?eref=rss_topstories) about "macaca"/"macaca moment" being the runner-up in the American Dialect Society 2007 Word of the Year vote. If you read the press release on the ADS site here ( http://www.americandialect.org/Word-of-the-Year_2006.pdf ), "prohibited liquids" clearly edged out "macaca" in the tally. 
I think the confusion lies in the fact that the American Name Society had selected "Macaca" as a runner up to "Pluto" (NOT "plutoed", which ADS voted to win). Mariana 07:09, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inaccuracy of CNN article 

message: Watching FUNNY LADY last night, near the end of the movie the Billy Rose character mocks the Fanny Brice (Streisand) character's radio show, calling it "that macaca radio show."
Hmmmm... Was that a specific slur vs. the owners or others on the radio show? A phrase Rose himself used a lot? A phrase used in the Jewish or Yiddish speaking community that has some unknown or other meaning? Or another example of the slur-ish use of the word described here? Just thought it was interesting enough to mention here. Carol Moore carolmooredc18:34, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use of "Macaca" in Funny Lady 

message: 'Sup, guys. 
I noticed that this article already has a mention of the GOP and their attempts to avoid another "macaca" moment, but didn't notice a source. I found a good source on this, complete with relevant excerpts from a GOP handbook in PDF form.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/06/14/gop-issues-rules-to-avoid-another-macaca-moment/
--Ferrarimanf355 22:01, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The GOP's attempt to avoid "macaca" moments 

message: Hey folks... I was driving through Fairfax, VA and snapped a picture of a vanity license plate with MCACAS on it.  I have the picture but if you wanna get a quick looksie, check this out.  Could/Should this be in the article?  Just wonderin.  Qb | your 2 cents 19:48, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photo 

message: Someone really needs to add something about the phrase "macaca effect" and how it's used in high-tech.  I just heard it referenced this way the other day on Comedy Central.  While the phrase "macaca effect" originally referenced the Virginia Senate race, it has taken on an entirely new meaning in the high-tech industry.  Journalist Liz Davidson writes:  
What is the "macaca effect"? First of all, what is a macaca? A "macaca" is a racial pejorative to refer to someone either from or with ancestry from India or Pakistan. And the "macaca effect" is pejorative used by people in high tech to refer to East Indians driving down the wages of American and British workers. In many fields (computer programming, engineering, medicine, nursing, accounting, etc.) companies are faking labor shortages to acquire H1B visas and hire East Indians, with the net effect of driving down the wages of American and British employees. Thus, one hears disgruntled employees talking about the "macaca effect."
http://www.magic-city-news.com/Guest_Column_89/What_is_the_Macaca_Effect10562.shtml
--Ramesh0909 (talk) 16:07, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No, someone does not need to add that. One reference in one newspaper is not noteworthy. - UtherSRG (talk) 16:22, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  The phrase "Macaca Effect" 

message: Anybody else read this article  about our "macaca" entry today? Don't know that I necessarily agree with any of this guy's analysis, but I thought contributors to this article might be interested to see it all the same. -- Khazar (talk) 05:34, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I just read is as well and the author of the article does make a good point. Looking at the article, the section on the 2006 Virginia Senate race is entirely unsourced, although the Slate article itself can serve as a source for some of the claims. The case made for 'macaca' being a racial slur is pretty strong, the references are clear - definitely not obscure or 'out of field'. This article also states Allen said did not know of this connection (also needs a ref though). So far, the article does adhere to the WP:NPOV guidelines.  As for this article being created only after the incident, I think this is common practice: the subject in some way generates attention, people do their research and create an article on Wikipedia - a reader cannot blame WP for not thinking of an article before, as it is the work of individuals who just happen to want to write about something. The references are from sources that have been around for some time, no one created them after the incident. Status quo is a properly sourced article on a racial slur, with an unsourced paragraph on the incident that made it famous. As long as Allen's viewpoint is properly represented and that paragraph gets referenced, allegations of bias have more to do with the reader than with the article itself. Cheers, Pim Rijkee (talk) 10:53, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I read the article by Slate. I'm a frequent editor of wikipedia, and I would be very disappointed if Wilson was right. We need to fact check it.--Jerzeykydd (talk) 03:01, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I am a wikipedian and a fan of Slate. I think Wilson is right. This article is not up to wiki standards. It has an awful lot to say about the term Macaque, and almost nothing about the term Macaca. What up with that? I believe the sourceable content comes down to it being SIMILAR to a racial slur, and people jumping on it with no sourcing to build it into a story. That is what is verifiable. That it is similar to another word used as a racial slur is fascinating, but mostly irrelevant. But then again, maybe I am just the house nagger.  Ratagonia (talk) 04:25, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Reviewing the source ( http://www.lpca.socsci.uva.nl/aps/tshibumba3b.html#They put a monkey inside ), the ONE and ONLY source for the claim that it is a racial epithet, I find it very, very weak. The footnotes were written by the interviewer (it seems) rather than by the distinguished interviewee. ONE footnote in a reputable but obscure journal does not source a derogatory statement about a living person. If it really was a racial epithet in common usage, it would show up in many places.  It does not, or, at least, did not until this fabricated controversy. It is time we re-edited the article to what is actually verifiable per Jimmy's vision. Ratagonia (talk) 04:42, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Wikipedia's 'Macaca' Problem" 

message: Per discussion above, can we have concurrence for removing the weakly-sourced reference to macaca as a racial epithet from this article?  Editors? Ratagonia (talk) 04:42, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Concur: I agree that it should be removed as the term's definition. However, if what Wilson alleges here is correct, and this article became a reference for ongoing news coverage of the incident, I wonder if Wikipedia hasn't become part of the story here, and that the article should still include a mention within the text that a previous version of the article was based on that reference and helped popularize the notion. I also wonder if this article might need a rename if we discard that reference (as I think I'm persuaded we should). Macaca (slur) doesn't seem quite fair if we can't find more than this single obscure use to demonstrate that it even is a slur. (Though macaque has more of a case). Perhaps "Macaca incident" would be a more neutral title? The incident got so much coverage, and has been referenced so many times since then, that I think it could stand alone. Some of the theories presented here as to the term/slur's origins could then stay, if they could be referenced to reliable sources. -- Khazar (talk) 05:07, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request for concurrence - remove weakly-sourced reference to macaca as a racial epithet from this article 

message: Thank you for the concurrence and the changes, which work fairly well. I'd like to suggest that the proper title for the article would be Macaque (slur) since this is the word that is actually a racial slur, and that the bulk of the article is about. Redirect from Macaca. The Macaca Incident listed as related but unclear... as currently written. A pronunciation note on Macaque would help. (I am a recovering Wikiaddict and am not proficient at doing some of these things. Also, this is a visible and sensitive article, so I seek concurrence before making significant changes, to avoid both edit warring and hurt feelings (mine?)) Ratagonia (talk) 16:05, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Concur--makes sense to me. -- Khazar (talk) 16:16, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

text: Actually this was named Macaca (slur) until very recently. Charles Edward moved it to ... (term) just a moment ago. I personally have no strong opinions so I'll just drop a message to him and ask him to come hear and discuss this. Cheers! Zakhalesh (talk) 16:18, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I would not strongly object to changing the title back to slur, but I do have some objections. Primarily, "macaque" definitely is a french slur. "Macaca" is maybe not a slur though, because they are pronounced differently.. If we moved the article "macaque", I think that might be best. I am just having a hard time connecting the dots where "macaca" became a corruption of "macaque" in English. I hope that makes some sense. :) We essentially have two words that sound similar, but are not necessarily related. All the sources given are pointing at the french word, and the only example of it in an English context is the use by Allen himself. There is no connection between the two, other than some conjecture in sources that are not authoritative on the subject. So.. I would propose moving to "macaque (slur)" rather than "macaca (slur)", as that is more definitively accurate. —Charles Edward (Talk | Contribs) 16:32, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

text: I am fluent in French, btw. "Macaque" would be pronounced "Maw-cok", not "maw-ka-ka". —Charles Edward (Talk | Contribs) 16:35, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Considering that whether or not the word is a slur is highly debatable, I strongly disagree that the title should be changed back to slur.--Jerzeykydd (talk) 19:09, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Jerzey, just to be clear, do you mean it shouldn't be changed back to "Macaca (slur)" or that it shouldn't be changed to "Macaque (slur)", as Ratagonia and Charles proposed? Thanks! -- Khazar (talk) 19:39, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: What I'm saying is that the current title of the article, which is Macaca (term), should stay as is. This is because whether or not the words macaca and macaque are slurs are highly debatable. Saying that it's simply a term is objective and avoids controversy. That's my opinion.--Jerzeykydd (talk) 21:04, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. It's a close call for me. I think there's sufficient evidence that macaque (not macaca) can be used as a slur that I think it would be fine to have the article there. But Charles Edward's edits to the lead today make Macaca (term) work better than it did a few days ago, I think. That allows the section on both the history of macaque as a racial slur (it does seem clear to me that it's been used this way in at least limited contexts) and the Macaca Incident. I'd hate to lose bits like macaca being nominated for word of the year by the ADS, which Macaque (slur)  might not include. So after today's edits, and the WP:COATRACK point in a separate thread above, I'd like to change my vote to a weak Keep at Macaca (term). -- Khazar (talk) 22:49, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

text: I think this article should use a "Macaca" title rather than a "Macaque" one.  The intened subject of this article was "macaca".  The "macaque" bits are just there as anecdotal evidence that macaca is a slur.  It is troubling that this incidental evidence overwhelmed the article to the extent it can be mistaken for the subject.  I believe that happened because this article never had anything to say about the subject.  It is merely a poorly-sourced assertion of a single trivial fact -- that "macaca" is a racial slur. --JGGardiner (talk) 09:25, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Excellent work, Wikipedians. I believe, as re-written, the article is now up to snuff, and am happy with the location at Macaca (term), for the reasons stated above.  I believe we have properly cleaned up this rather unimportant article to wikepedia standards. Thanks all for your participation. Ratagonia (talk) 04:12, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed new title - Macaque (slur) ???

message: This entire article now reads like a promotion of George Allen, taking the media to task for victimizing a poor old man who routinely makes up words that don't mean anything. It's a load of shit and everyone who helped fudge this particular project should feel ashamed of this kind of behavior. 208.118.163.99 (talk) 20:56, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, thanks for the feedback, but cussing everyone out isn't really the solution here. If you can give us some reliable sources on this incident you feel are being overlooked, that might be a better starting point for the conversation. -- Khazar (talk) 21:22, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Re-reading the article after 9 months of absence, it reads fine to me. Does not seem like a promotion to me, seems utterly neutral. Just the facts, ma'am. Ratagonia (talk) 06:52, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, missed the IP User's change to the text. I reverted - I think the original clearly stated the facts of the case in a neutral manner, and is therefore appropriate for the wiki. If you disagree, please bring the discussion here before changing again, and get consensus from a few editors.  Ratagonia (talk) 06:58, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bias 

message: I'll put a more detailed description here later today of my reasoning behind the tags so we can come to a consensus/get this done, heading out now. --Padenton (talk) 12:39, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article needs a lot of work 

message: I suggest this sentence be modified.  I find it impossible to believe there is any data to support this assertion as fact.  Is somebody credible going to conduct a poll about the usage of the word "Macaca" among Portuguese who self-identify as racists?  (talk) 20:49, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  racists often call black people "macaco" 

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thread_title:  External links modified