Talk:The Long Ships

message: I would like to discuss this entry in the main book description:
"Mainly the plot gives a flattering image of Christianity, but the Christians are not portrayed in a more favourable light than Muslims, Jews and pagans."
My impression was that the author slyly mocks Christianity.
Most of the conversions take place under the influence of alcohol, the direct promise of material gain or the fact that if your King said you were now a Christian, it was unhealthy to your well-being to contradict him.
Indeed, Orm's building of a church was based on a promise he made if certain earthly issues were resolved in a way most beneficial to himself.
In the book, the Vikings seemed to treat Christianity in the same manner as they did their indigenous "pagan" beliefs. Whether you sacrificed a goat or built a church, the actions efficacy was judged by the material return visited upon the pleader.
:I do not think that "religion" is a central theme at all; the book rather tries to capture the pragmatic and non-regligious Norse pagan worldview, and if the some factions are divided along confessional lines, that simply mirrors the geopolitical situation at the time. dab (ᛏ) 08:49, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In the section Politics the article says (without giving the source) that "there had been considerable attempts to obscure Skåneland's pre-1658 affiliation to Denmark". That is a strange statement. "Everybody" in Sweden is taught the actual historical facts at school, and nothing is hidden.    Mkch 14:14, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [Untitled]

message: === Toke ===
I disagree with the characterization of Toke. He is almost as intelligent as Orm is, when he is not rendered less clear-headed by drink (again, and again, and again) or by his desire to possess Harald Bluetooth's slave woman, Mirah. He is, if you care to notice, an accomplished poet, and he invents a method for the Viking raiders to storm the castle in Spain. Also notice that when Orm wants advice on how to proceed with the information provided by his brother, he summons Toke both because he trusts him (to an extreme degree) and because he values his counsel greatly (i.e. he acknowledges Toke as intelligent), and quite likely Orm summons Olof Butterfly (a more correct translation than the one given in "The Long Ships") more because of his knowledge of the East than because of his intelligence and wisdom, although obviously he trusts Olof (but, equally obviously, not as much as he trusts Toke).--Peter Knutsen 01:52, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: An interesting observation, thank you Peter Knutsen for pointing it out. I have checked and verified it in my Swedish edition. The novel came originally in two parts, the first one published in 1942 and the second one in 1945. It is "brother Willibald" (and also "brother Matthias") in the 1942 part where Orm and Willibald meet occasionally. The last chapter tells how Bishop Poppo, then in London, approves Orm's request to get Willibald into his household. And in the second (1945) part Willibald has become some kind of house chaplain and spiritual guide, at the Gröning farm. Here "Father Willibald" seems an appropriate title. Rgds / Mkch 08:45, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Characters 

message: I disagree with the characterization of Toke. He is almost as intelligent as Orm is, when he is not rendered less clear-headed by drink (again, and again, and again) or by his desire to possess Harald Bluetooth's slave woman, Mirah. He is, if you care to notice, an accomplished poet, and he invents a method for the Viking raiders to storm the castle in Spain. Also notice that when Orm wants advice on how to proceed with the information provided by his brother, he summons Toke both because he trusts him (to an extreme degree) and because he values his counsel greatly (i.e. he acknowledges Toke as intelligent), and quite likely Orm summons Olof Butterfly (a more correct translation than the one given in "The Long Ships") more because of his knowledge of the East than because of his intelligence and wisdom, although obviously he trusts Olof (but, equally obviously, not as much as he trusts Toke).--Peter Knutsen 01:52, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Toke 

message: We also need to add him. He does become a friend of Orm, throughout the novel. But it seems to me that early in the novel, he is referred to as Brother Willibald, then later it is Father Willibald, even though he has been a full Priest right from his first appearance. I'd just use Father, I think, once I get around to writing his entry.--Peter Knutsen 02:42, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: An interesting observation, thank you Peter Knutsen for pointing it out. I have checked and verified it in my Swedish edition. The novel came originally in two parts, the first one published in 1942 and the second one in 1945. It is "brother Willibald" (and also "brother Matthias") in the 1942 part where Orm and Willibald meet occasionally. The last chapter tells how Bishop Poppo, then in London, approves Orm's request to get Willibald into his household. And in the second (1945) part Willibald has become some kind of house chaplain and spiritual guide, at the Gröning farm. Here "Father Willibald" seems an appropriate title. Rgds / Mkch 08:45, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Father Willibald 

message: No, I don't think so. The Jutes were a tribe in the dark ages (mid 1st millenium), distinct from the Danes, and by the 10th century the people living in Jutland are Danes. I think "men from Jutland", linking to the article on Jutland, would be much more appropriate, so I'll change it to that. If you disagree, revert back and explain why.--Peter Knutsen 02:34, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree.--Johan L 20:15, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jutes? 

message: I have a list of perhaps 25-30 novels that I really, really like, but this one probably goes near the top of the list, and I have read it many times. I have the newer English translation ("The Long Ships"), and a version in the Swedish original, and I can get the Danish translation from the library any time. So if anyone needs me to look something up, or need me to help with language issues in regards to this article, just ask. I want to help make this article even better than it already is!!--Peter Knutsen 01:58, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  My favourite novel? 

message: Is there any reason that the title in Afrikaans is especially mentioned? The best thing would to have a table of the title in all languages it has been translated to. If not, I suggest removing the Afrikaans title. Having just one foreign title makes it seem like something special, and I assume it's not. JdeJ (talk) 21:27, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am responsible for the present wording. The history is that User:Eisbar2 (proudly?) entered the note on Afrikaans on 23 April 2007. When I saw this note on 17 June 2007 I knew I could increase the number of translations. But I hesitated to delete the first proud note. But you are quite right, JdeJ, a list of translation languages should be appropriate. And Eisbar2 has had his/her publicity. I will enter  a list of translation languages in the near future.  Best Rgds / Mkch (talk) 22:04, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Today I added a list of 19 translation languages. Best Rgds /  Mkch (talk) 15:26, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Languages

message: Can you say something about the poetry?
Does it follow Norse forms?
Does it follow Swedish forms?
--Error (talk) 19:34, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Poetry