Talk:Puducherry (union territory)/Archive 1

message: ...Ponnuthammbi Pillai, moved the Paris court and won the case in which he was awarded a penalty by a French Magistrate in Pondicherry for walking into the court with footwear.
I would think it was probably withOUT footwear
Texteditor 19:30, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  is a crucial syllable omitted from the following? 

message: This article should be about present-day Pondicherry and less about the [History of Pondicherry] for which we can have a seperate entry?
I would prefer the article shortened to give more details about the present-day Pondicherry Union-Territory.
hydkat 09:35, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Text from the History section has been transferred to History of Puducherry.--Victor D PARLE 21:49, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Split the page 

message: Is Tamil and French the only official languages of Pondicherry? I dont think they speak tamil or french in Mahé or Yamen. Also, the Malayalam language page says Malayalam is an official language of pondicherry. Perhaps someone can sort out this inconsistency. --  thunderboltza.k.a.Deepu_Joseph |TALK 14:53, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Official Languages 

message: There is little reference to the Sri Aurobindo Ashram in this article. From 1910 onwards, when the yogi / philosopher Aurobindo Ghose arrived in Pondicherry, his Ashram has had a substantial influence, including changing the very 'feel' of the town, putting Pondicherry on the world map, and preserving the architectual heritage in the white town. Something more needs to be written about this...
:Sri Aurobindo Ashram is outside Pondicherry (city or union territory) in Tamil Nadu state.
Are you referring to Auroville? As far as I know, since I reside there, the Sri Aurobindo Ashram is in the centre of "white-town" Pondicherry.Auro.ghosh 15:01, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sri Aurobindo Ashram? 

message: Finally the law renaming the UT passed and now the official name is Puducherry. I think it is normal to change also here the name the same as for Mumbai and Chennai. Desiphral-देसीफ्राल talk-फेन मा 18:07, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a misunderstanding. Mumbai and Chennai were moved on the grounds that English usage, including that of the inhabitants, had, in time, adopted the new name. I'm not convinced this is accurate for Madras; but it is at least plausible. Give it time to catch on. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 20:41, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Now Puducherry is official 

message: I've copy edited the first paragraph for greater clarity; however, I feel that the story about the "u" being mistaken for a "n" seems dubious, and not appropriate to an encylopedia.  It needs to be reliably sourced (and not simply linked to a newspaper web site).  Until such time as the reference appears, I have removed the sentence.  Fowler&fowler 06:12, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Spelling Mistake

message: *Agreed Brookie :) - a will o' the wisp ! (Whisper...) 15:43, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed merger

message: Note:  Project Banner with Puducherry workgroup parameters was added to this article talk page because the article falls under :Category:Puducherry or its subcategories. Should you feel this addition is inappropriate , please undo my changes and update/remove the relavent categories to the article --  Amartyabag  TALK2ME 09:56, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: [[WP:INDIA]] Banner/Puducherry Addition 

message: Substituted at 15:36, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: ...Ponnuthammbi Pillai, moved the Paris court and won the case in which he was awarded a penalty by a French Magistrate in Pondicherry for walking into the court with footwear.
I would think it was probably withOUT footwear
Texteditor 19:30, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: is a crucial syllable omitted from the following?

message: I've copy edited the first paragraph for greater clarity; however, I feel that the story about the "u" being mistaken for a "n" seems dubious, and not appropriate to an encylopedia.  It needs to be reliably sourced (and not simply linked to a newspaper web site).  Until such time as the reference appears, I have removed the sentence.  Fowler&fowler 06:12, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Spelling Mistake

message: *Agreed Brookie :) - a will o' the wisp ! (Whisper...) 15:43, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed merger

message: This article should be about present-day Pondicherry and less about the [History of Pondicherry] for which we can have a seperate entry?
I would prefer the article shortened to give more details about the present-day Pondicherry Union-Territory.
hydkat 09:35, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Text from the History section has been transferred to History of Puducherry.--Victor D PARLE 21:49, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Split the page 

message: Finally the law renaming the UT passed and now the official name is Puducherry. I think it is normal to change also here the name the same as for Mumbai and Chennai. Desiphral-देसीफ्राल talk-फेन मा 18:07, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a misunderstanding. Mumbai and Chennai were moved on the grounds that English usage, including that of the inhabitants, had, in time, adopted the new name. I'm not convinced this is accurate for Madras; but it is at least plausible. Give it time to catch on. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 20:41, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Now Puducherry is official 

message: Note:  Project Banner with Puducherry workgroup parameters was added to this article talk page because the article falls under :Category:Puducherry or its subcategories. Should you feel this addition is inappropriate , please undo my changes and update/remove the relavent categories to the article --  Amartyabag  TALK2ME 09:56, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: [[WP:INDIA]] Banner/Puducherry Addition 

message: Where are the districts? Someone must have access to a decent map they can post
63.26.116.103 (talk) 07:22, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Map

message: This article has way too many redlinks for a B class article - they should either be removed or de-linked. – ukexpat (talk) 15:47, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Red links 

message: There is little reference to the Sri Aurobindo Ashram in this article. From 1910 onwards, when the yogi / philosopher Aurobindo Ghose arrived in Pondicherry, his Ashram has had a substantial influence, including changing the very 'feel' of the town, putting Pondicherry on the world map, and preserving the architectual heritage in the white town. Something more needs to be written about this...
:Sri Aurobindo Ashram is outside Pondicherry (city or union territory) in Tamil Nadu state.
Are you referring to Auroville? As far as I know, since I reside there, the Sri Aurobindo Ashram is in the centre of "white-town" Pondicherry.Auro.ghosh 15:01, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Sri Aurobindo Asram actually situated in Tamil Nadu, though it closer to Pondicherry, many people unaware of this.... --Jai Kumara Yesappa (talk) 23:29, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sri Aurobindo Ashram? 

message: Pretty much the whole "History" section has no citations at all. I could not find any supporting research from a quick Google search either. Can the original author add cites? Chromic (talk) 04:24, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  No citations for the History Section? 

message: Is Tamil and French the only official languages of Pondicherry? I dont think they speak tamil or french in Mahé or Yamen. Also, the Malayalam language page says Malayalam is an official language of pondicherry. Perhaps someone can sort out this inconsistency. --  thunderboltza.k.a.Deepu_Joseph |TALK 14:53, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Tamil and French are only official language of Pondicherry. Malayalam and Telugu are administrative languages of Mahe and Yanam region respectively. Its is like Hindi and English are official language of India, but regional languages are respective states administrative languages.... Got it clear.--99.254.242.12 (talk) 04:31, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Official Languages 

message: Is there a correct interwikis in this article? For example, not exist article in russian Пондишери, but exist Пудучерри... --Treisijs (talk) 12:57, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I would be very careful  "Pondicherry is a city, an urban agglomeration and a municipality in Pondicherry district in the Indian union territory of Puducherry." Therefore there are five entities that may or may not share the same name.  It will be hard work to disentangle the interwikis if they are wrong, since all the articles in all the languages will need to be checked. Rich Farmbrough, 14:12, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Interwikis 

message: I googled this page to get the dates the French left, but this is hidden away.  I like the fact that I can google a famous figure and see the main dates in the two lines shown so I don't have to click the links.
People will come to this page if they want to find out about Pondicherry's role in colonial India, and these students should be catered for.  It would be like an 'England' page skipping over Willliam the Conqueror but saying in section 3 that we do have quite a few French words in the English language due to 1066.
Or like a page about North America starting with the Pilgrim Fathers and then jumping straight to the Declaration of Independence.  Though in fairness, many of them do.
(Ganpati23 (talk) 01:43, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Needs a simple colonial section, and (esp) the dates of French control in the intro. 

message: I'm not sure why there's so much confusion about Pondicherry or Puducherry. The Indian Govt. renamed the place in 2006 to Puducherry and the offical name of the local govt is Puducherry. It doesn't matter what everyone else calls it. The official name is always what the govt calls it. So it should be called Puducherry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mushroom9  (talk • contribs) 16:18, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: No, we go with the WP:COMMONNAME. It doesn't matter what the govt. calls it. Germany is officially Bundesrepublik Deutschland, but we just call it Germany. Similarly, we would not move India and China if they decided they wanted to be called Bharat and Zhongguo unless common usage followed those decisions. Cf. Orissa, Burma, Tibet, and Ganges. — kwami (talk) 19:42, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Colonial names are inherently insulting.   Buaidh  21:44, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps kwami would like to explain why he moved this article, without discussion, just a year after the move discussion decided not to.  That is something else we "don't do on Wikipedia".  Skinsmoke (talk) 20:09, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Moving

message: This discussion has been copied to Talk:Pondicherry (city).  Please add any further comments there.  Skinsmoke (talk) 15:51, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pondicherry (city) 

message: The article could do with a concise discussion about how the territory was formed, and the basis of the handover from the French government, dates, reference to any treaty. These components seem relevant to understanding the basis of the existing structure, especially related to the discontiguous nature of the state and why they were not incorporated to their surrounding states, and how they may have a difference in nature due to their colonial nature. — billinghurst sDrewth 05:39, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thoughts for additions 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Puducherry. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110425174938/http://www.pondiuni.edu.in:80/about_uni.htm to http://www.pondiuni.edu.in/about_uni.htm
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
Cheers. —cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 21:25, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I took the liberty of replacing the top map by another one I found in Wikipedia Commons. Much better map.
I also simplified the introductory paragraph. Most of the info I deleted is found in the 2nd paragraph. I think it make for easier reading. --Lubiesque (talk) 20:51, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  New map 

message: Rework of intro for added clarity
Puducherry, (; literally New Town in Tamil)  and formerly known as Pondicherry (Pāṇṭiccēri) is a union territory of India. It was formed out of four exclaves of former French India, namely Pondicherry, Karaikal, Yanam and Mahe. The union territory (UT) was named after the largest district Pondicherry, and changed its official name to Puducherry (Putuccēri) on 20 September 2006.
Puducherry lies in the southern part of the Indian Peninsula. The areas of Puducherry and Karaikal are bound by the state of Tamil Nadu, while Yanam is enclosed by the state of Andhra Pradesh and Mayyazhi (Malayalam for Mahe) by Kerala. As of 2005, Puducherry was the 29th most populous and the third most densely populated state/UT in India. It has a GDP of  and ranks 27th in India.
Two articles that are similar
History of Puducherry and French India
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Bnitin (talk • contribs) 14:06, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Considerations for rework 

message: If this is in face the case, concerning the name PoNdicherry:
At some point, the hand-written 'u' was mistaken for an 'n', and the misspelling stuck.
Then how does this explain, necessarily the following:
The territory is called புதுச்சேரி (Putuccēri) or பாண்டிச்சேரி (Pāṇṭiccēri) in Tamil, పుదుచ్చేరి (Puduccēri) in Telugu, and പോത്തുച്ചേരി (Pōttuccēri) or പോണ്ടിച്ചേരി (Pōṇṭiccēri) in Malayalam
A spelling mistake seems unlikely? Are there any sources to show this? was it called Panticceri and Ponticceri at all before the French arrived?
: No spelling mistake! The n comes from the standard French orthography (on) of the nasalised o vowel, it has never been pronounced as a consonnant in French. The exact value of the vocalic phonem varies depending on Indian languages between u, ā, ō, with also a clear nazalisation also in these languages.
: As well Indian languages vary between d and t phonems.
: And it was also correct when it used a single r (where English misspelled the name Pondichéry, transforming -chéry into -cherry like the fruit, even if it was OK in English to remove the distinctive French acute accent to get more precise pronunciation of the e, because English does not make a clear distinction like French between é, è)
: Note that French does not need an accent on e if it precedes a geminated consonnant, but English incorrectly geminates the r. (Today, French rarely distringuish phonetically the geminated consonnants from non geminated ones, but the orthographic tradition of not writing any accent before a geminated consonnant persists and this was not a reason to write -chéry as cherry which would be incorrectly pronouced like if it was chèry...)
: So the French orthography was not (and is still not) wrong: it's a good compromize between various transliterations of multiple Indian languages and their local dialects (note that the territory is spread on very distant locations with different Indian linguistic backgrounds).
: The official change of name from Pondichéry to Puducherry however comes from the transliteration of modern Tamil, the main official language: புதுச்சேரி -> Putuccēri. But the double r adopted comes from the old English misspelling ! A concession was made to Telugu (secondary language) for keeping the d still used in French (official language). The nasalisation from Malayalam was also ignored, but the d kept in English is still correct for the **dental** t of both Malayalam and Tamil. Tamil, the first official language is not clear at all about the traditional vocalic value or nasalisation of the first syllable. The choice of Tamil to guide the name comes from the fact that the most important part of the territory is in a Tamil-speaking region. verdy_p (talk) 17:09, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spellin gmistake? 

message: I found the following Government of India documents, which have a preface in Tamil, French and English. 
*http://gstcouncil.gov.in/sites/default/files/sgst-notification/PUD-(R)-21.pdf 
*https://gst.py.gov.in/ctd/gst/THE-PUDUCHERRY-GOODS-AND-SERVICES-TAX-(AMENDMENT)-ACT-2018.pdf
*https://labour.py.gov.in/sites/default/file/2017/The%20Puducherry%20Loading%20and%20Unloading%20(Regulation%20of%20Employment%20and%20Welfare)%20Act,%202017.pdf 
*https://lad.py.gov.in/images/pdf/GO/Profession%20Tax%20for%20panchayat%20Act%20No.%204.pdf
: I have also found this Government of India portal stating that French is preserved as an official language: https://web.archive.org/web/20150402195506/http://ecourts.gov.in/pondicherry/historyv✘ anonymousвهii 15:08, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations for use of French name and French's status 

message: , I have reverted your edits as you did not address any of the concerns I raised in my earlier edit summary and in the discussion on my talk page. Instead, you seem to have added my observation to the article when doing so would be WP:OR. —Gazoth (talk) 12:58, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Which is why I put it in a ref tag. The Gazette isn't a third-party source, it's from the Government of India (by virtue of UT)/Government of Puducherry, if they weren't official sources, I wouldn't put anything in the article. Although English and Tamil are official, French is also used (making it cultural/additional). According to Part XVII of the constitution, correspondence can be requested in other languages, though states and UTs do this only in their official language. The fact is that French exists in the Gazette, the Pondicherry languages Act hasn't repealed French and established English and Tamil as the sole official languages. I'm not making any of this up, and if the Government is doing this since the 1960s, it sure as hell isn't a mistake.✘ anonymousвهii 13:20, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: , as I have told you multiple times now, everything that you've saying is original research. A determination that you made that usage of a language in one page of official documents results in it being an official language is original research. Unless the gazette explicitly states that French is an official language, it is not a source. I can't make this any clearer. —Gazoth (talk) 13:26, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

text: , also you seem to have completely sidestepped my arguments about inclusion of French in infobox/lead over Tamil/Telugu/Malayalam. These languages have been explicitly declared as official language or additional official languages, and including French over them gives undue weight to it. It also violates the spirit, if not the letter of MOS:IS. Reiterating my argument here, the policy became necessary as there were multiple official languages that could qualify for the lead, due to which verifiability and criteria for inclusion became a problem. While the policy was written down as excluding Indic scripts, that doesn't mean that quasi-official non-Indic scripts are acceptable for the lead. —Gazoth (talk) 13:31, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: "While the policy was written down as excluding Indic scripts, that doesn't mean that quasi-official non-Indic scripts are acceptable for the lead" Isn't this also original research? Fine, your first paragraph seems sensible enough, I'll move the names to another section, away from the lead, but how on earth isn't French Cultural? The French in the gazette is just icing on the cake. I think the best solution for the infobox would be Official:English, Tamil, Additional: Malayalam, Telugu, Cultural: French. In the Languages section, I will also add the Pondicherry official languages act citation, and describe the presence of French.✘ anonymousвهii 13:38, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: , there is no such thing as a "cultural language". You can't make up designations. My arguments about MOS:IS are obviously not original research as I'm reasoning about policy, not deriving unstated conclusions and adding them to the article. WP:OR only applies to the content that is actually added to the article. —Gazoth (talk) 13:53, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: If you have a problem with "cultural language", that is a separate issue. Chandernagore and Panjim have their own unique culture based around the Romi Konkani and Indian French languages. It also doesn't violate MOS:IB, unless the MOS specifically states only official languages must be used. Please refrain from false accusations. ✘ anonymousвهii 14:07, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: , I didn't express a dislike for the term, I told you that such a term does not exist. You are making it up and you haven't provided any sources for it. It is clearly WP:OR. The convention among all articles on Indian states and territories is to only add official languages are spoken languages can cross into double digits. If you want to add the mention of French, add it to article body with proper references. You have once again failed to address my arguments about inclusion of French names in infobox/lead over Tamil/Telugu/Malayalam. —Gazoth (talk) 14:24, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I am not giving it any precedence over Malayalam or Telugu, it is a term used on the Chandernagore page. French is spoken by about 5,500 people in the Pondicherry UT. I promise to cite everything to the best of my ability, since I use visually impaired peripherals to use my PC, I need some time. ✘ anonymousвهii 14:32, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: , existence of unsourced content on other pages is not a justification for adding them to this page too. You are once again not addressing the issues and concerns that I have previously raised, and this is getting to WP:IDHT territory. —Gazoth (talk) 14:47, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  Honestly, if the 2011 Census's "other languages", the Pondicherry Gazette, the former French colonies and French diaspora/French OCIs in Pondicherry isn't enough evidence for French culture in Pondicherry, I don't know what is. I could accuse you of WP:IDHT too, but a pissing contest isn't how consensus should be reached, in my opinion. If you can give me any proof of zero French in Pondicherry, I will revert all my edits.✘ anonymousвهii 14:58, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: , as I've repeatedly explained to you, none of those are acceptable sources for terming French as the "cultural language" or "official language" or "additional language" in the article. You have not rebutted any of my arguments, but you keep jumping from one topic to the other. The standard for exclusion of any language from the infobox is not having zero speakers, rather the standard for inclusion is that it has to be an official language in some capacity. —Gazoth (talk) 15:02, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Please read the last paragraph of this official Government of India source: https://web.archive.org/web/20150402195506/http://ecourts.gov.in/pondicherry/history ✘ anonymousвهii 15:06, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

text: , that's the first valid reference that you have provided. This would allow French to to mentioned under languages section. However, it still does not address my arguments about French names in infobox/lead. —Gazoth (talk) 15:12, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Like I said, I'm visually impaired, so I can't do this rapidly, since I use TTS, Braille Numpads and a friend's help. I know dealing with me is annoying, but I will try to improve the page.✘ anonymousвهii 15:15, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: , it's been three days since we discussed this matter at my talk page and I have given you two days after you asked for more time. I've seen no reply from you. I'm going to remove the French names from the article. —Gazoth (talk) 19:44, 12 June 2019 (UTC)

text: You have shown no interest to address the concerns I raised, but seem to content to cling to any flimsy reason to keep your edits. Usage of French in headers of gazettes is not a sufficient reason to add it to the lead/infobox. —Gazoth (talk) 13:08, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Repeated addition of French to infobox/lead 

message: Dear fellow Wikipedians,
Can you plaesewipe this page clean of all the discussions prior to 2010..…. Also I think all the sections have valid citations. So please remove the improper citation template...
Cheers.  ANUPAM DUTTA 12:14, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Deployed User:Lowercase sigmabot III, which will archive any discussions older than a year. --Soumya-8974 (he) talk contribs subpages 16:18, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Declutter the talk page