Talk:Han–Xiongnu War

message: Is this really a war? Seems to be more like a series of battles carried out against a particular enemy over a long, long period of time. Was there ever a formal declaration of war and such? Did China consider itself to be in a state of war throughout this period? -- Миборовский U|T|C|M|E|Chugoku Banzai! 06:06, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course not, its a war between Han and Xiongnu, not civil wars. Eiorgiomugini 07:20, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Should probably be Han-Xiongnu wars, plural. We have similar topics such as Roman–Parthian Wars and the Germanic Wars. Ahyangyi (talk) 12:58, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: War?

message: I'm watching Han Wu Da Di, and I see numerous other battles between Battle of Mayi and Battle of Mobei. Does anyone have information on those? Hanfresco 21:32, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Han Wu Da Di

message: This article is declared the main article at the beginning of the section Xiongnu#War with Han Dynasty. However, that section is considerably longer than this article, and at a glance seems to be adequately referenced, while this one isn't. I suppose that just incorporating a copy of that section should improve this article considerably; but shouldn't a "main article" contain more than the section to which it refers? JoergenB (talk) 23:39, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  A paradox 

message: I was contemplating beginning the GA review for this page, and may still do this,  but wanted to offer a couple content suggestions first. 
* Is it possible to include more background on the relationship between the Xiongnu and the Qin and (more importantly) Han dynasties? My understanding is that the Xiongnu state and the Han arose at roughly the same time,  and that early on during the Han dynasty the Xiongnu were regarded with a considerable amount of fear and admiration (they did, after all, manage to defeat and nearly capture Liu Bang).  Diplomatic relations were based on the intermarriage system, and premised on the notion of brotherly equality between the Xiongnu and the Han.  This arrangement was interrupted when emperor Wudi determine that the arrangement was demeaning to the Chinese, and thus began the decades-long campaign against the Xiongnu.  This context seems to be missing. 
* I thought the Yuezhi did ally with the Han.  Maybe I'm confusing the Yuezhi with the Wusun?
* The current article structure is largely a chronological account of various battles,  which is perfectly fine,  but I'm wondering if there is a way to adopt a more thematic approach to a couple of the important components of the war (this isn't necessarily a prerequisite to GA status, but it might be nice).  In particular,  it might be good to have a more focused discussion on how the war impacted the military strategies of the Han dynasty, the development of the tribute system, etc. This could potentially be part of the 'aftermath,' or perhaps a new section on significance.  
* A clear articulation of Wudi's goals and the core components of his strategy may be helpful,  perhaps in the lede. For instance, Thomas Barfield described Wudi as adopting a four-pronged strategy that involved allying with the Xiongnu's adversaries,  aiming to push them back to their Qin-era frontier,  cutting off supply lines from the Tarim Basin, and then just wearing them through repeated punitive expeditions.  
* There doesn't seem to be any information on the Xiongnu's (sort of) surrender in 54 BC and adoption of the new tribute system. Did I miss that?  It's important. 
* I think the aftermath section would benefit from a slight expansion.  In particular, the page is a little thin in noting the split between the southern and northern Xiongnu,  and it doesn't seem to mention much about what became of the northern Xiongnu as they were pushed north and west.  Also, it might at least be worth noting that some historians draw a link between the northern Xiongnu and the Huns.  Finally,  the aftermath section might say something about how the battle paved the way for Han expansion into these areas.  
I hope these are helpful suggestions.  Homunculus (duihua) 04:55, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Aside from that massive requested move about the name of this article, is this a single war or a series of wars? It seems to me, since it occurred over a period of over two centuries, it should be pluralized... -- 70.49.127.65 (talk) 03:54, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Did you intend for this comment to go in the thread above? Homunculus (duihua) 16:02, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: No. I left a comment about it in the thread above. It also applies to seeking GA status. -- 70.49.127.65 (talk) 02:44, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I see.  My understanding is that there was a protracted series of campaigns carried out under both the Qin and Han dynasties, and this article deals with the Han-era war. The campaigns may have spanned a considerable time (so did the Hundred Years' War), but there is arguably enough continuity in the policy and objectives of the Han to support the description as a singular "war"—even though there is really no consensus in the literature on what this war ought to be called. A more descriptive title also seems like a viable option (eg. "Han dynasty campaigns against the Xiongnu," or something more concise).  I have no strong opinions either way. In any event, I would hope this issue can be resolved before a GA review. Homunculus (duihua) 06:11, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I will revise the article with your suggestions and some other ideas. I have withdrawn it for now for an overhaul. Anyway, The Cambridge History of China, Vol. 1 chapter about the Xiongnu and Han begins the conflict with the title "War with the Hsiung-nu" (page 389; beginning with the peace treaty breaking and Mayi), ending the chapter with the aftermath until 91 AD. I will go with that for now, singular war. --Cold Season (talk) 11:58, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks Cold Season.  Please let me know if I can be of assistance. Homunculus (duihua) 13:18, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

text: Actually I think that title refers to a continuous state of war, rather than a war, i.e. an uncountable noun rather than a singular one.  Kanguole 00:17, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a good way of putting it. Homunculus (duihua) 00:21, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggestions  

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
* 
Participate in the deletion discussion at the . —Community Tech bot (talk) 03:22, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion