Talk:Concordia University/Archive 1

message: It's not clear to me why this page is at Concordia University
as opposed to any of the other 6 Concordia Universities
listed at Concordia University System.
Suggestion:  move this to Concordia University (Montreal)
and create a Concordia University disambiguation page at 
Concordia University.
If no one strongly objects, I'll do this in a few days
Johnh 01:07, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I object. Why not simply create a disambiguation page and link to it in the header? This Concordia University isn't part of Concordia University System. --Spinboy 01:15, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)

text: Why not simply create a disambiguation page and link to it in the header? --Spinboy 21:39, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)

text: Yes, because all the other ones you propose to disambig are simply part of a larger System. When a reader enters this term and pushes "Go", would they expect to view any of the articles listed on the disambiguation page? You should list this article on requested moves for comment from the larger Wikipedia community. --Spinboy 00:46, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: In fact, there's already a disambig page listed under Concordia. --Spinboy 00:48, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Disambiguation

message: I've added the link at Wikipedia:Requested moves
as per the request.
A disambig at Concordia is nice, but not the same as Concordia University. Johnh 22:38, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: add: * Support or * Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation and a signature:"~~~~"
*Oppose A disambig page alredy exists under the name Concordia and if thats not satisfactory, you can create Concordia University (disambiguation) --Spinboy 17:57, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed move

message: Ridiculous Wikipedia page for Concordia University. Wow! Shame on you people. Noted alumni section is a real joke.
:Why don't you contribute to it and help make it better? -- Spinboy 02:09, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  WTH?? 

message: I tried to include all the points of the anti-Netanyahou writer while ensuring that it was clear that these were viewpoint statements and not facts.  For the sake of balance I added pro-Hillel statements (calling them pro-netanyahou is inaccurate, many individuals who wanted to attend the speech were certainly pro-Israel but not neccesarily pro-Netanyahou).  I eliminated statements that were essentially exercises in mind-reading the motivations of involved individuals as well as statements that were not relevant to the discussion and just added length (e.g. the statement about universities being bastions of liberalism etc.)
I would certainly invite suggestions and criticisms and will try to act on them.  I will add the rewrite some time next week.  I'm also thinking that maybe this whole thing should be a seperate page just like the computer riot...
But anyways here it is:
:While protesting and fiery debate are considered a staple of college life, heavy politicization of the Arab-Israeli conflict on campus has caused certain student groups to step up their political militancy.  Tensions are exacerbated by the large representation of students from Middle Eastern countries and of Jewish origin as well as the presence for many years of an activist-oriented student council.  As a result the campus has recently been the scene of sporadic skirmishes, protests, or, more infrequently, highly polarized riots.
:The Hall building (the main building of Sir George Williams campus) was shut down on September 9th, 2002 in response to a massive protest by pro-Palestinian students.  They were opposed to the visit by former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyaha because they were opposed to the presence on campus of a leader who they felt was a war criminal especially since they felt that they were not given adequate opportunity to attend the meeting themselves.  The organizing group had largely confined their publicity of the offering of tickets within the Montreal Jewish community.   The organizers were also warned by campus security against allowing the talk to proceed because of the politically charge climate at the university but decided to proceed anyways because of concerns freedom of speech concerns. The protest itself lasted several hours and resulted in the breaking of several windows of the main building as well as a few instances of violent intimidation of individuals attempting to attend the talk.
:The immediate result of the protest was the cancellation of the talk.  The protestors were ecstatic at having prevented him from speaking. Hillel, on the other hand, decried what they perceived as an attack on freedom of speech.
djheart 04:40, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: djheart, I agree with you, and good effort. This whole section needs to become a linked, expanded article, and only a short, factual summary left behind instead of a constant re-writes in the style of finger-pointing and hour-by-hour journalistic and polemic account. A similar thing happened to the Montreal article with the contentious merger/demerger issue, whose constant revisions hijacked the main article until it got its own page and article. Would you like to move it, or would you rather I do it? After the move has taken place maybe you would like to work on the new article, and I'd be happy to try to look at the main article for even more neutral language. -- Denstat 18:22, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed rewrite of Netanyahou section 

message: This is not true. People are not political activists at Concordia. The overwhelming majority of Concordia students do not care for politics. Look at the participation (voter) rates at the CSU (concordia student union) elections. It is very low. The only reason why people think its politically active is because of the 2002 riot. What people do not understand is that the people who started the riot were not ALL students. The majority of students at Concordia could not care less about Israel and mid east politics. Why is it that the majority of the information related to Concordia on Wikipedia is devoted to the 2002 riot???? This is nonsense. I am sure you can find other things to say about the University and perhaps changing the pictures to reflect the new (nicer) infrastructure at Concordia. Why is there only minimal mention of the business school? Why is there no mention that Concordia has the oldest communications department in Canada and the best journalism school? 
Come on people, stop the stupidity and propaganda.
Did you know that the current CEO of CIBC is a Concordia alumni?
: I agree very much with your point, as I said before I think that the brunt of the netanyahou riot should be listed under a seperate article, I just wanted to see other people's opinions before doing so (plus advice on how to do it... I'm new to wikipedia, I don't actually know how to make links).  Also if you think that the activist section is bad now you should check out what it was like before I edited it...  djheart 03:34, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Concordia University is a relatively small institution that would not merit much attention were it not for its activist activities.  The fact that it has the oldest communications department in Canada might be true, but is not terribly interesting.  The statement that Concordia has the "best journalism school" is of course blatantly POV.  The original article was remarkably unbalanced and I think that the edits are appropriate and very welcomed.16:13, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

text: Sounds great, welcome to Wikipedia. :-) -- Spinboy 03:02, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

text: Saying it's the best journalism school in Canada is POV, you can take that out. -- Spinboy 05:07, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

text: I don't even go to McGill, no personal attacks. -- Spinboy 23:20, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Dragging our gaze back toward the article if we may ;), I suggest an edit that emphasizes that Concordia University is not 'defined' by student activism, but has a history of student activism. Broadening the scope of student activist involvement beyond the current narrow political definition would honour all that the great work that happens both on campus and beyond its borders. I'll take a stab at it in the next weeks but if someone else has more time, go ahead. --  Denstat 18:33, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Concordia is an activist University???? 

message: Before I did the major edit to the Student Activism section is was clearly in an anti-Israel POV... now after a number of re-edits I fear that it has tilted too much the other way.  While there is nothing in the section at the moment that I disagree with I nonetheless recognize that it is somewhat POV, especially the last paragraph so I will try to edit away the POV.  djheart 18:32, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Student Activism Section POV 

message: I'm not sure who is doing it, and quite frankly I suspect that they are not reading the discussion section, but someone keeps on putting in a completely POV rewrite of the Student activism section.  While I don't personally disagree with many of the points they are different info that what was given before and completely biased against the CSU, it reads more like a rant than an encylopedic article.  The info can certainly be added to the Concordia article but it definitely shouldn't replace the previous work. djheart 01:36, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please stop anonymous POV editing 

message: I moved this from the article because it's completely unreferenced and seems like original research. Can someone find an article or essay or anything to back up this allegation (like, say, someone actually making it)? -- Fagstein 17:42, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good call on a bitter POV. Text that begins with "it is alleged..." is suspect to begin with. Have never seen this in Montreal media. I suggest that the user who believes this tripe does the research by calling up Concordia; I brought an alleged admissions belief to one department once, and was disabused and better yet, learned a lot more about the nexus of quota systems and admission procedures and criteria.-- Denstat 17:45, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Favourism towards International & out of province students 

message: Originally, the "Student activism" section read that the events of Sept. 9, 2002 "resulted in the breaking of several windows of the main building as well as a number of instances of physical harrassment of individuals attempting to attend the talk." I pointed out that the sentence was poorly written, as it did not say who broke the windows and physically harrassed people. User:djheart said the anti-Israel protesters were the people who did the actions mentioned, so I rewrote the sentences to say so.
In his/her effort to bring some order to this section, User:Fagstein has changed the sentence at issue again. It now reads "one of the exterior windows broke," again removing any mention of who broke the windows. Also, instead of saying that the protesters physically harrassed attendees, the section now states that the attendees "exchang(ed) verbal insults with the protesters."
:I was referring to the protesters inside the building. We should probably add that protesters outside allegedly physically harrassed attendees trying to get into the building through a controlled access point. I'll try to rewrite the section to accomodate that. Fagstein 20:22, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: All we know for sure is that the window broke under the stress of protesters outside. Whether it was a deliberate strike or prolonged pressure from banging protesters is unclear. Fagstein 20:22, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Good job on the edits. -- Mwalcoff 22:41, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Broken windows and physicaly harrassment 

message: For those who are interested, I have created the userbox . IronChris  |  (talk) 00:18, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice, thanks!  -- Denstat 17:48, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Userbox for Concordia students and alumni

message: Other local universities do not need to be listed by name in this category when a link to the [[List of Quebec Universities}} is provided. I have removed them.  This is a good category under which to list the computer riots, for example, and a link to an expanded article on the Netanyahu protests, as well as other expanded articles based on the university's history. --  Denstat 17:57, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Redundancy in '''See Also''' category

message: Hey I'm putting the current sitting of the CSU council back up and returning the "student politics section to the way I put it up before. Those are the current legal standings of the CSU council, anyone who actually cares should know my name as an authoritative source. THose who still have questions can check the articles in The Link or the concordian, although I would like to hear any dissenting opinions. J.manchester june 14, 2006.
:You should probably find those articles and provide links to them as references. Fagstein 19:37, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: results of the election

message: "Fabrikant affair" seems a euphemistic term, and has just 185 Google hits. Is there a reason why we don't use "Concordia University massacre" (33,400 Google hits), which is the title of the event's main article. Apologies if I've missed a previous discussion on this. RomaC (talk) 16:08, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It's been like that for a while, not sure who coined the term. I agree with you that "Concordia University massacre" or "1992 massacre" would probably be more appropriate.--MTLskyline (talk) 22:00, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: No opposition in six months, changed it per WP:BRD. Also see "1992 massacre" as a possibility, concerned primarily that "affair" is weaselly and not supported by RS. Respectfully, RomaC (talk) 13:27, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Concordia_University#Fabrikant_affair |Fabrikant affair?]]

message: The article says that concordia is among the best schools for engineering studies in Canada. There is a reference, but it isn't a good one. It lists 19 universities, which is a large parts of canadians universites offering engineering degrees. Moreover, it lists Université du Québec with a link to the UQAM, which doesn't even have an engineering faculty (except a small microelectronic eng. program) and to the Université de Montréal, which doesn't offer an Engineering degree at all. We should either find a better reference or remove that statement. --zorxd (talk) 14:07, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Top Engineering school? 

message: Concordistan, a redirect to this article, has been listed at WP:RfD for two days and has garnered no recommendations or comment so far (unlike WP:Articles for deletion, RfD defaults to delete if there is no discussion participation after one week). Anybody interested is encouraged to make himself/herself heard at RfD. B.Wind (talk) 17:47, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Concordistan]] listed at [[WP:Redirects for discussion]]

message: There are several problems with this claim. Firstly, it's sourced only to a Concordia webpage, and it's a job listing page, trying to sell people on working at the school (they don't bother giving a source, or any kind of context for "G15". The only relevant hits in a quick Google search for G15 lead only to Concordia). Worse though, there are thirteen major research universities in Canada (Concordia is not among them), so claiming to be in the "top 15" is a pretty empty claim. You can be dead last academically and still crack the top 15 for many programs. I've taken this out, partly for being misleading, and partly for being a largely empty claim. I've also removed the rest of the sentence, "and is recognised as a leading research institution in Canada and internationally", again partly for being mostly empty peacock language that makes no real verifiable claim, but also for being demonstrably false in some cases (I refer you back to Group of Thirteen again, note also that Concordia lacks doctoral programs in a number of fields, one of the main criteria for calling yourself a "research institution"). Hairhorn (talk) 00:39, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Concordia's Faculty of Engineering & Computer Science is one of the "G15" major engineering schools in Canada" 

message: Rankings of a university are commercial/promotional efforts of the organizations that produce the rankings-- often in symbiotic collaboration with schools. Rankings are not really a benchmark to the quality of a school. The organizations may WANT you to think so, but they are not. As such, I question their inclusion in the lede. So, "ConU is ranked XXth BUT just look at how many CEOs Concordia has produced!" Give me a break! This smacks of advertising. A shorter simpler lede is appropriate for Wikipedia. Rankings can be summarized under another heading for that purpose but their place is not in the lede. York University and its business school both have Wiki-pages with well-organized rankings info (If I may say so of edits that I have done!) :) I want to discuss this over the next 6-8 weeks. 174.91.201.132 (talk) 15:55, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed rewrite of the lede section

message: Is that a scam ripping off the name?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.206.162.148 (talk) 04:48, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: No. Concordia University (Oregon) is an unrelated university that has an overlapping name. —C.Fred (talk) 04:59, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The US has eight Concordia Universities, and several more Concordia Colleges. There's even a second Concordia in Canada. No one is ripping off anyone. Hairhorn (talk) 13:57, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: In that light, doesn't it make sense to have the query "Concordia University" lead to a disambiguation page? There are too many Concordias (indeed a whole system, some schools have several thousand students) to have "Concordia University" lead directly to this page. (talk)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.103.40.142 (talk) 02:49, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Please consider the discussion above before engaging another move proposal. --Natural RX 16:30, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Concordia University, Portland Oregon 

message: I would recommend establishing a Ranking and Reputation section, you can use . FYI, it ranks as #12 for comprehensive universities by Maclean's in 2011. --Natural RX 22:17, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ranking and Reputation 

message: I removed the section on The Charities, as it seems it was removed in almost all other Canadian university articles. If someone is looking for it, I put it in the hidden text below.--MTLskyline (talk) 04:17, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: The Charities

message: :Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *Support or *Oppose, then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.
*
*what, again??. Please review the reasoning in the previous discussion, which addresses the comments you make. Hairhorn (talk) 15:50, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: Sorry, but this is demonstrably false; for 2013 Maclean's ranks Concordia 13th, which places it behind almost all research universites in the country. The most that can be made of this ranking is that it's one of the better schools that doesn't rank as a research school; but "best of the bad schools" isn't much of a claim. Hairhorn (talk) 14:27, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, it's actually far worse than I thought: Concordia ranked 13th among universities without medical schools, which puts it even further down the list as far as overall rankings are concerned. Hairhorn (talk) 01:04, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  "consistently ranked one of Canada's top comprehensive universities" 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20091005004208/http://www.corporateknights.ca:80/special-reports/68-knight-school-guide/419-knight-schools-2009.html to http://www.corporateknights.ca/special-reports/68-knight-school-guide/419-knight-schools-2009.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140606024241/http://archives.concordia.ca/fabrikant to http://archives.concordia.ca/fabrikant
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141208005827/http://www.carl-abrc.ca/en/about-carl/carl-members.html to http://www.carl-abrc.ca/en/about-carl/carl-members.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090517012602/http://news.concordia.ca/notices/014675.shtml to http://news.concordia.ca/notices/014675.shtml
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150315073318/http://www.topuniversities.com/qs-world-university-rankings to http://www.topuniversities.com/qs-world-university-rankings
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I've seen that somebody keeps flaming the University and saying that it was built on indigenous grounds. The bit is unnecessary and clearly put as some political statement. It should be removed and if it must be there, it should be added under the History tab that the University was founded on conquered Indian territory and that the University has put out a statement on it. Huntwalks (talk) 06:43, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unceded Indigenous Grounds bit