Talk:Abraham T. Kovoor

message: I confess that the information I have on Abraham Kovoor's Miracle Exposure Campaign is very meagre. But I don't think that is an issue here. Before discussing anythingelse let us have a look at the contributions made by the very knowledgeable Aparna Thekkethil and the anonymous user  with the IP address 221.134.24.*** to Wikipedia. I suspect that both these users are one and the same. I may be wrong.
The entire contributions made by the user Aparna Thekkethil are, as on today (ie, 8th August 2005) ,related to various Edamarukus and an organization headed by them. The images s/he uploaded are those related to Edamarukus except the one  of M.C.Joseph which s/he used only to displace the image (shown alongside) of MC Joseph with Kovoor. S/he used her contributions to boast about a couple of individuals. S/he added the names of these individuals and their organization at all possible places in Wikipedia. This goes against the very basic ethics of Wikipedia which insist that the articles being contributed should be impartial. 
Now look at the contributions made by the user with the IP address 221.134.2*.***. Whatever I said in the preceding paragraph is equally applicable to this user too. The article this user contributed on one of the Edamarukus 
was considered as biased and hyperbolic by an impartial Wikipedia user Gwalla who put a notice ({npov}})on the page saying the neutrality of that article was suspected. Instead of improving the article the original contributer deleted the notice! Remember that it is none other than this contributor who put a notice on the page of Basava Premanand to delete the uninteresting article!
The same user made the astonishing claim (see his/her revision as on 15:25, 2 June 2005) that Joseph Edamaruku, well known Malayalam author and rationalist, translated most of his articles into Malayalam which made him a popular rationalist hero. What a temerity to claim that Abraham Kovoor was made a rationalist hero by the translator of his works into one of the of Indian regional languages!
The reason given for deleting the image of Abraham Kovoor with MC Jospeh is specious, to say the least. M.C.Joseph was a towering personality in the cultural scene of Kerala and this was acknowledged even by the Government of Kerala by publishing his biography. No Aparna Thekkethil can undo this. If the closeness of a person with Kovoor is the criteria for uploading one's image, Aparna Thekkethil can better upload the image of Kovoor's wife or his son.
Basava Premanand undoubtedly is one of the most prominent rationalists in India today. He has conducted innumerable miracle exposure campaigns travelling across the length and breadth of India. Any one curious to know about him may either follow the external links in the page Basava Premanand or do a Google search. He still offers Rs.100,000 (One Hundred Thousand Indian Rupees) to any person who will demonstrate any psychic, supernatural or paranormal ability of any kind under satisfactory observing conditions. It is possible that a number of other obscure or well-known organizations/personalities too are offering similar prizes. In that case, the best one should do is to add that information in the Wikipedia page, but without deleting the information pertaining to B. Premanand. But, alas, such a thing can be expected only from a person of humility. 
It throughly puzzles me what the user Aparna Thekkethil had in mind while deleting the links to James Randi and James Randi Educational Foundation; while removing the links to a number wikipedia pages on various subjects and dates; etc..etc..Are the Edamaruks and their organization the only subjects worth referring to?
I have nothing against Joseph Edamaruku, who published excellent Malayalam translations of Kovoor's works. It was through his translations that I first read Kovoor's works much before I could properly read and understand English. But, unfortunately, most of Joseph Edamaruku's original works are below par. And, I can't stand personality cults - that of self-proclaimed godmen or rationalists. But it is not what Aparna or I feel that matters when it comes to Wikipedia. What matters is the objectivity of the article. Will Aparna please go through the wikipedia guidelines on Neutral point of view? Here is the link: Wikipedia:NPOV.
I have no intention of reverting the page on Kovoor to its correct earlier version. I leave it to the wise judgement of other users. In the meantime, I wish Aparna Thekkethil all success in his/her endeavour to market his/her pet personalities! MANOJTV 10:22, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: On Abraham Kovoor, M.C.Joseph, B.Premanand....

message: I used the phrase one Joseph Edamaruku in the specific context of the claim made by the anonymous contributor that he (J.Edamaruku) had made Abraham Kovoor a rationalist hero.  I doubt whether Joseph Edamaruku himself would have come out with such a claim. I still have respect for Joseph Edamaruku for the contribution he made in enriching rationalist literature in Malayalam. In fact,when I contributed the article on Abraham Kovoor I also provided links to his publication group - Indian Atheist Publishers, New Delhi. If my usage of that phrase sounded an insult to Joseph Edamaruku, I am sorry for that. It was not intended. But I stand by my statement that I can't stand personality cults and Wikipedia should not be used to promote any individual or group.
The remaining part of GHOSH's (whoever it is - the user id is created only to intervene in this discussion. One who analyses the passage can easily make out who the user is) intervention is just name-calling and does not worth any response. But I have to say this about B.Premanad: I have not contributed anything in the Wikipedia page on him. And my acquaintance with Premand is only through media reports.
And, the ethics demands that the opinion expressed,images uploaded and the typographical style used by some user in the wikipedia talk page should not be edited out by any other user. Because this is an opinion page. MANOJTV 05:16, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Some clarifications

message: MANOJTV, if one sees his contribution and comment, is systematically busy with Wikipedia with a personal agenda. Closely watching, one easily understands for whom he interprets and manipulates facts and history.  In one passage he writes "most of Joseph Edamaruku's original works are below par." But the truth jump out of his key board in another passage when he writes "I still have respect for Joseph Edamaruku for the contribution he made in enriching rationalist literature in Malayalam." J.Edamaruku has written more than 170 books and is respected as a scholar in the field of the history of religions. His series on world religions, if translated into English, in my judgment will stand separately in world literature. What do you mean by personality cult, and what does Edamaruku has to do with it? He is well known and his readers respect him. What is "personality cult" in it? When you accuse something, you have to prove it also. When your prejudices are pointed out, you just apologize! That is not what is required. Manoj, shed away your hatred, bias and prejudice towards those who do good work.  APARNA
**While I wrote "... the contribution he made in enriching rationalist literature in Malayalam", I meant the works of various authors (to be precise, the Malayalam translations of well known rationalist and science literature. For instance, works of Charles Darwin, Madeline O'Murray, Abraham Kovoor, ...) published by Joseph Edamaruku's publishing group, Indian Atheist Publishers. As to Edamaruku's own works, I find many of his works below par. But then, it is my personal opinion and need not be shared by others. And, I said sorry for the unintentional meaning the phrase "One J.Edamaruku" conveyed and not for the facts I pointed out.MANOJTV 04:54, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: MANOJTV and his apologies: What it means?

message: ** This article is missing the heated debate between ISKCON's Hansadutta where Abraham Kovoor was publicly challenged for Rs.500,000 to prove his statement that life originates from chemicals. This discussion should also be included to increase the neutrality of the article.
Sunil  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.192.170.153 (talk) 19:22, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Section needs to be included to increase the neutrality of the article

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Abraham Kovoor. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071030182028/http://www.therali.com:80/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=75 to http://www.therali.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=75
*Added  tag to http://www.randi.org/jr/030802.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080112050935/http://www.buddhiwadi.org:80/Kovoor.htm to http://www.buddhiwadi.org/Kovoor.htm
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 22:25, 2 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Abraham Kovoor. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110315044342/http://www.iheu.org:80/node/3119 to http://www.iheu.org/node/3119
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 11:45, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified