Talk:Chipewyan

message: *This page needs to be rewritten to incorporate the new words written in the Dene/Chipewyan language.
*Does the paragraph in Dene translate the previous paragraph? If so it should be noted. Perhaps with (Dene translation) written at the end of the paragraph. 
*Does  Bëghą́nı̨ch’ërë mean Patuanak or English River? On the Patuanak, Saskatchewan page it is written that Patuanak in Dene sounds like Boni Cheri. Is that the same as  Bëghą́nı̨ch’ërë. Maybe we can write the word then the translation like the following:  ..... Patuanak ( Bëghą́nı̨ch’ërë) .......  Kayoty 07:22, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: It doesn't belong in an English Wikipedia, especially without translation; I put it in the section below for archiving purposes.  Patuanak and other items should be linked, they never should have been bolded the way they were.  Quite a few others terms here can be linked, or redirected.Skookum1 (talk) 05:32, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Contents

message: User:Nordendene published the "Allan Adam paper 2013" on Thanadeltth'er and the Dene Suline. User:Nordendene also seems to be the author of the paper as in a previous edit January 30, 2013 he refers to his website at *Official website with the comment (I have ıncluded dëne names of communıtıes and ınserted some of the outlınes ınto dëne yatıe. I have also included my web site link for people to refer to for free language services. Marsı tchogh). So this does not appear to be a copyright violation.   .Kayoty 05:09, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Allan Adam paper 2013

message: "This outcome will be disappointing to those who support using the names preferred by the people themselves, and I sympathise with that view. However, as a tertiary publication, Wikipedia follows the usage in reliable sources rather than leading change. That inevitably means that our nomenclature will sometimes lag behind popular usage."
Really? Because I seem to remember this feces-flinging festival of a discussion back in October... what was the crux of that? MOS:IDENTITY. We identify people based on what THEY want, no matter what the sources claim, since they are possibly outdated. But I guess that just applies to the squeaky wheel of LGBT groups, huh? - Floydian τ ¢ 18:56, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The closure exactly follows MOS:IDENTITY.  There's a big difference between calling an individual "he" or "she" based on their identity, since every English speaker is familiar with both pronouns, and calling a nation by a name that few readers have ever heard. I suspect that if a person demanded to be referred to by Spivak pronouns, they might get pushback from editors, IDENTITY or not. — kwami (talk) 19:06, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: It went beyond pronouns and it results in BLP articles changing names (getting moved) within an hour of a person announcing that. I fail to see why the policy can be held to one standard for one community of people, but yet to a different standard for another community. The name preferred by the people should be used, no matter what other sources say. Same arguments used in the Bradley Manning debate ad nauseam. - Floydian τ ¢ 20:32, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

text: So you think we should rename "German people" to "Deutsche volk" and "French people" to "Peuple français"? User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 21:00, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Apples and oranges; we do not use "Duetsche Volk" (German nouns are capitalized, if you were unaware of that) or "Peuple français" in English; Denesuline like Mi'kmaq and St'at'imc and Kwakwaka'wakw and similar *IS* used in English.  Your comment is as specious as are so many others, and point to evasion and is just a red herring.Skookum1 (talk) 02:55, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

text: A line of reasoning which sets aside guidelines (Self-identification, including not using derogatory exonyms) and POLICY (TITLE/CONCISION/PRECISENESS) is highly unreasonable and very illogical and clearly biased - and is a demonstration of your inability to decide anything rationally when your personal bias against the nominator is so clearly on display.Skookum1 (talk) 02:55, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Since we have accepted Tłı̨chǫ over Dogrib people, Sahtu over North Slavey and so on and so on, I think to suddenly not accept Denesuline over Chipewyan people seems out of the ordinary.-- Kayoty (talk) 04:05, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:CONSISTENCY has been regularly ignored, or set aside or otherwise rationalized away, in the course of closes like this one.  And re invoking COMMONNAME, it's clear that not all of that guideline's points were addressed (or even read?) by the closer, see User_talk:Skookum1/TheOldConsensus#UCN_.2F_COMMONNAME: "Ambiguous or inaccurate names for the article subject, as determined in reliable sources, are often avoided even though they may be more frequently used by reliable sources." i.e. that numerical counts of sources are not relevant when a name is inaccurate; that section might as well add, though it's elsewhere in the guidelines, when a "most common usage" (here by an underwhelming margin) is also derisive or derogatory in nature, which is indeed the case with "Chipewyan", as its exonymic etymology demonstrates.  CONSISTENCY was a cornerstone of the "old consensus" that has emerged in the bulk of RMs other than "this group" of them, which were not closed by the same closers as the mass of others, and has been devalued in favour of a misreading of COMMONNAME.  This title is derogatory in origin, and though still official with some bands in Alberta, and re the official languages of the Northwest Territories, still in legal use; but it is out of line with parallel titles e.g. Dane-zaa, Tsuu Tina, and countless others to be found in :Category:First Nations and its categories.  ****The link provided above goes to a summary of the "old" consensus, which was never codified formally before people drifted away; points of it are currently under filibuster at WP:NCL, which was revised in Feb 2011 to mandate compulsory addition of "people" and "language" to titles which do not and did not need it; attempts to address the points of TITLE and NCDAB and other points above are being confounded by the author of the passage in question, who also was an adamant opponent of all these RMs, and the first to oppose them per the copy-pasted vote in the RM above and in copy-pasted identical votes across dozens of others.Skookum1 (talk) 06:03, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Irrational close 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I'm noting the RM discussions above, and they seem to have this page titled as "Chipewyan". I'm not exactly sure what the idea is behind this edit and  this edit, but if an explanation were to be provided it might make a bit more sense as to why we're not using the article title to name a group. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 01:23, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dënesųłı̨ne