Talk:Asian fetish/Archive 5

message: Link: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/01/09/MNGM2GKMFT43.DTL
Sounds to me like another prime example that should be included under the "social consequences" section. OneViewHere 22:17, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  In the News 

message: Strong POV in this article and apparently very much a vehicle for disseminating the POV missions of AsianGuy.com and ModelMinority.com.  Does this article really feel encyclopedic to anyone here?  Strange.  --AStanhope 04:05, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: When I read it it seems like someone writing a school report for Asian-American Studies 101 rather than an encyclopedia article, and trying to cram in as much as possible. But this does point up the need for an Asian American contemporary issues article.--ThreeAnswers 04:23, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  AsianGuy.com and ModelMinority.com vanity vehicle? 

message: I want to get back to this Karl fellow who never signs his messages.  Please explain why you think that "Jews Control Wikipedia".  Also, if you are trying to make an argument that Asian's are "passive" due to their "lower testosterone" and natural tendancies, then do you think other groups....say Blacks, are more violent and aggressive due to their natural tendancies?  That is the logical extension of your argument.  And if that is the case, please explain how that is not utterly and completely racist.  I don't want to see lengthy anthropology dissertation psycho-babble.  I want a direct yes or no answer to my questions.OneViewHere 21:27, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Arguments being made here. 

message: The anthropology section stands for itself. Are there  any scientific well-supported objections to it ?Mr Phil, Wzhao533 and me are respectable scholars of medicine, humanities and anthropology and we have given very,very  detailed information to you.By the way, the anthropology section is unique on the net as e.g. Mr.Phil's warm comment is a hint for ("fascinating").I will now go on eliminating  the bias in the about 50 strategic articles in the English wikipedia on my own. Others are heartly welcome to join me.I have just improved "Ludwig van Beethoven ", "atonal music" and "relativity theory".And it will take the opposing  group a lot of experts in different fields including translators to cope with it.I look back on more than 60 years of scientific experience being a member of the Ahnenerbe,too.As I have said above, my intents were always benign to humanity. My opposing the oversimplifying Anti-Asian Nazi racialism  in the very dangerous letter to Himmler in 1938 is more than any indivual could have  achieved.Given the fact it had changed the plans of Himmler it could have saved the lifes of millions of people. Not too unlikely as Himmler was totally irrational.It was clear to me from the beginning that there is something as individualty. Race is only one constituent of the human, sex and individualty are the two others. Nevertheless, all constituents are very significant.As I share Beethoven's ideals, my vision is a community of all people. But as many scientists and artists have shown us, this is a utopia with only a small chance to be realized. War, fight, rape and greed and average humans determine the human existence.The expeditions to Tibet in 1934,1935 and 1937 in which I took part showed me the attractiveness of the central Sinid women in the Himalaya. Of course, if you google for "Nazi Tibet expedition" you will find that the scientists don't know anything about those  mentioned expeditions. Furthermore , I have many files in my archive the NARA would be keen to get.
Now, I am a fit, but a very old man. And as the racial model doesn't determine everything, the model that members of the SS or the Ahnenerbe were all gangsters, is not correct. I was called Nazi by you, but I have never been  a party member nor did I belong to the Ahnenerbe when it was integrated in the SS. There is never a  collective guilt or a simple yes or no, good or bad. As the German Nikolaus von Kues has put it, there is a "coincidentia oppositorum" in everything, one of the deepest thoughts of man. This article is only a preliminary for further edits on the "Holy Grail" and other fascinating topics which could be of much, much value for you. "In diesen heil'gen Hallen kennt man die Rache nicht". As I know that you are young people who have not found their way in life yet, I will see your hostilities as a kind of  misunderstanding due to a knowledge gap.Good afternoon, gentlemen. 80.138.168.54 23:16, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  If you are trying to admit that you were a member of the SS, then just say so.  If the only comment you can muster up about your visit to the Himalayas is that you found central Sinid women "attractive", then I think it's pretty clear why you are interested in this article.....  143.127.3.10 18:28, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  anthropology section 

message: :The Role of Testosterone
:One possible explanation for the higher incidence of White male - Asian female couples as compared to East Asian male - White female pairings may be higher average levels of testosterone found among Whites as compared to East Asians.  (Korean and Swedish not generic to justify claim for all east asians/whites; source talks about testosterone EXCRETION not production.) Higher levels of testosterone in men produce more masculine physiques and more aggressive personalities, which in turn lead to higher sexual attractiveness for women. (Does not mention testosterone)Therefore the origins of the "Asian fetish" may be a more complex partnership interaction between not only the men involved attracted by certain perceived qualities of Asian women, but also Asian women themselves looking for more masculinity in their partners.
:Evidence for this theory includes:
:* Less muscle mass found among East Asians as compared to Whites (Talks about prepubescent children only)  (Talks about body fat, NOT muscle)
:* Lower levels of violent crime committed by East Asians  (Mentions NOTHING about East asians)  (Talks about juvenile crime ONLY)
:* Larger average testicular volumes of White males as compared to East Asian males, e.g. a study by Jared Diamond, professor of physiology at UCLA and Pulitzer Prize winner, comparing average testes volumes upon autopsy of Danes and Hong Kong Chinese  (A diagram is NOT a good source, nor is it informative or reliable.)  (Source literally says NOTHING)
:* Possible differences in average penile size, which shows a strong relation to prenatal and childhood testosterone levels  (Talks only about children, and published only in Jan 2006 - not reliable), e.g. smaller average penis sizes found among Chinese newborns in Canada  (Newborns irrelevant to topic; does not mention testosterone.)
:* A lower prevalence of androgenetic alopecia among East Asian men  (Mentions NOTHING about testosterone)
:* The higher average life expectancies of women and East Asians, fewer incidences of prostate cancer and coronary heart disease among East Asians  (Mentions NOTHING about testosterone)  (Does NOT link low testosterone to east asians)  (page 9) (Whole PDF mentions NOTHING about testosterone), all of which have been hypothesized as being medically correlated or in the case of life expectancy inversely correlated with elevated testosterone levels, e.g. "Why Women Live Longer Than Men"  (logic is NON SEQUITUR. None of these sources link east asian lifespan to specifically testosterone.)
:::Quote: "Between ages 15 and 24 years, men are four to five times more likely to die than women. This time frame coincides with the onset of puberty and an increase in reckless and violent behavior in males. Researchers refer to it as a "testosterone storm."...
:::The male hormone testosterone not only increases aggressive and competitive behavior in young men, it increases levels of harmful cholesterol (low-density lipoprotein), raising a male's chances of getting heart disease or stroke."
:::One could justifiably add a paragraph "Why Asians live longer than Whites" (ed.) (ORIGINAL RESEARCH; WRITER'S OWN OPINION)
:* The dating discrepancy is not found among South Asian - White couples, South Asians show physical characteristics more similar to Whites than East Asians (Source not given)  (This source provides support for the first part of the previous sentence)
:* The larger number of Black male - White female couples as compared to White male - Black female couples, which may reflect a similar dynamic (A diagram is NOT a good source, nor is it informative or reliable.)
It is obvious Mr_Phil is pushing his own agenda to have his own opinions place on this wikipedia article. None of the sources he provides have any relevance whatsoever to the claims being made; neither are the claims linked logically to the main theory. He has only edited this article, leading me to believe he has a special interest in vandalising it. Furthermore, he refuses to even attempt to defend himself, yet repeatedly adds these erroneous claims and irrelevant sources into the article, without discussion.
Infinity0 talk 23:56, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you think these are valid critiques, then add a paragraph below the testosterone section in which you write your critique, please don't go around vandalizing the article. Previous criticism was added at the bottom of the article, not just the parts others may not have agreed with deleted. Judging by your standards, the rest of the article needs to be removed, since none of it comes close in documentation to the testosterone section and most of it is anecdotal.
They are not critiques. They are statements of fact that these sources, and therefore the WHOLE SECTION is bogus. Also, wikipedia does not endorse use of proxies. Infinity0 talk 00:15, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Well, if you don't have any arguments, just run to an Asian moderator to have the article blocked.
My argument is against the entire section, not its content. The section is unsourced and original research. Infinity0 talk 00:41, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Testosterone section is bogus content. 

message: This article has been protected to stop a reversion war. Please see the dispute resolution process; if you disagree with the protection of this article, please contact me or see Requests for page protection. Note that disagreement amongst editors is the reason the article is protected, and should not be used as an argument for unprotection. // Pathoschild (admin / talk) 00:32, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article protected 

message: Google search gives 705 results. This person is not significant enough for an encyclopedia. I suggest all references to him are removed. Infinity0 talk 00:42, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I suggest all anecdotal parts be removed, meaning all of the article except for the testosterone and part of the anthropology section.
Good idea.80.138.192.206 01:20, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Stop logging on on different IPs and agreeing with yourself. Infinity0 talk 13:14, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Especially considering how lousy the rest of the article is, just a compilation of individual anecdotes about a Hispanic policeman who groped at Asian women, the sexual paraphilias of a Princeton grad student and some movie reviews. If you are so sure the testosterone section is so flawed, restore it, write out a critique and I will answer to that, as Mr. Zhao or what his name is originally said he would do. Until then any further discussion doesn't make much sense. Liebe Grüße. Dr.Phil
Did the world-famous Jewish Boasian Ashley Montagu (author of the UN declaration on race !)err when he called Mongoloids neotenous making them "delicately beautiful "? Were  Max Hartmann's world-famous laws wrong ? Why does Knußmann, the former president (!)of the German Scientific Society (Deutsche Forschungsgemeinschaft,internationally respected no.1 organization in Germany, expert in the John F. Kennedy murder (!))and doyen of the German anthropology , repeat these claims in his  unique manual 1996 ? Do you not think that Knußmann has mentally suffered enough from the unsubstantiated attacks on him by leftists ? Don't you think it is incredible that juvenile leftists can block a whole branch of science (e.g. Asta- Hamburg ) and now justice must be done to him by us all?80.138.192.206 01:49, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

text: And you believe that?--ThreeAnswers 02:35, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course not. This was simply my point at the very beginning (see: Talk:Asian_fetish#From_the_criticisms_section). The rest was just naive curiosity. --Wzhao553 02:50, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rainer Knußmann 

message: Assistance professor Steve Rubenstein (Athens,Ohio), author of the previous comment, has been alleged to be the leader of a leftist cabal in the "wikipedia" of at least 10 people , see e.g. webadmin's "user:silsor"'s (Mr.Bonham's) page who has himself nothing to do with those allegations, but considered them to be worth reporting.Mr.Rubenstein, as numerous others can testify, is trying to ban the virago/Asian fetish concept totally.As a Boasian scientist (see his publications and statements) he is part of a quite doubtful scientific tradition (see e.g. Kevin MacDonald,The Culture of Critique,2002).Now, Mr. Rubenstein has escalated the manipulation as he even refuses to tolerate to report the virago /Asian fetish concept as a major concept which has been contained in the world-famous Martin-Saller -Knußmann manual since 1914.No other Boasian dared to deny this concept. E.g. the very influential Meyer's Konversationslexikon 1888 under the name "Mannweib" featured it (digitalized online ).There is an overwhelming amount of evidence.- That denial is comparable to denying other concepts or events , such as the Holocaust or the Nazi racialist concepts, and is aiming at similar goals as Sheridan Prasso does (being herself a virago) : to undermine the respectability of decent Europeans. 80.138.172.139 19:43, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Get a job. Infinity0 talk 21:15, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Assistance professor Steve Rubenstein 

message: I have informed several conform admins (or do you think we have no sleepers in the wikipedia ?) about the insult calling me a "loser" by infinity0 on the "anti-relativity" talk page.80.138.172.139 23:49, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infinity0 vandalizing in physics and musicology - and naming me a "loser" - admins informed 

message: ===New Fetish for South Asians===   
    
"...However, it remains undisputed that differences between races exist, even beyond simple appearences. Interestingly enough, there appears to be a sub-population of non-Asian, typically Caucasian, women with a fetish for Asian men. However, this is more pronounced in Central and Eastern Europe, and less so in North America. In Canada and the UK, there seems to have been a shift over the last decade for Caucasian men to fetishize South Asian women as opposed to East Asian women. This is prevalent in the Canadian media, where East Asian women are no longer the dominant "non-white" females portrayed in the Canadian media. In the UK, the presence of South Asian female anchors has been the norm for decades. In Canadian television news stations, virtually all of the female anchors of East Asian descent, who were somewhat numerous a decade ago, have been completely replaced by female anchors of South Asian descent."
*This section was deleted for being unsourced which means it amounts to original research. If it can be re-written with sources, and made NPOV by removing the "undisputed" and "interestingly enough" bits and providing an alternative view or two, I could support its inclusion.--ThreeAnswers 08:06, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: South Asian fetish needs to be put back

message: "...However, it remains undisputed that differences between races exist, even beyond simple appearences. Interestingly enough, there appears to be a sub-population of non-Asian, typically Caucasian, women with a fetish for Asian men. However, this is more pronounced in Central and Eastern Europe, and less so in North America. In Canada and the UK, there seems to have been a shift over the last decade for Caucasian men to fetishize South Asian women as opposed to East Asian women. This is prevalent in the Canadian media, where East Asian women are no longer the dominant "non-white" females portrayed in the Canadian media. In the UK, the presence of South Asian female anchors has been the norm for decades. In Canadian television news stations, virtually all of the female anchors of East Asian descent, who were somewhat numerous a decade ago, have been completely replaced by female anchors of South Asian descent."
*This section was deleted for being unsourced which means it amounts to original research. If it can be re-written with sources, and made NPOV by removing the "undisputed" and "interestingly enough" bits and providing an alternative view or two, I could support its inclusion.--ThreeAnswers 08:06, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: New Fetish for South Asians