Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Formula One/Archive 4

message: Page was 96 K, way too large. (Suggested is < 32K, strong suggestion of < 50 K.) Summary of semi active discussions: (NB: If they are still active, move them here, don't edit there...)
* Race Report Infoboxes (consensus never reached on merging boxes)
* Results tables abbreviations (consensus not reached on what the standard should be)
* Tire Templates created (informing us of an easy to use template system for tyre manufaturers)
Any discussions that were overlooked, my sincerest apologies, if they are/should be active, 
copy/paste them to this page. -slowpokeiv 15:37, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archived Talk page 

message: I was wondering if fastest laps could be included in the drivers' (and constructors', chassis' etc.) career results tables, as in, for example, the 1998 Formula 3000 season article, i.e. in italics?  It can be used in conjunction with bold pole positions, as bold italics just needs five apostrophes either side of the text (although it took me rather too long to figure it out).--Diniz 12:10, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fastest Laps 

message: Two questions:
1) Why isn't the Race Report infobox used on the example race report?
2) If the infobox is used, should the fastest lap still be included under the Notes header as it's already included in the infobox? Alexj2002 18:07, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox 

message: I was thinking some kind of lap leader table would work well in a race report. I'm not good at doing these Wikitables but attempted one.
Lap Leaders
Start - Lap 50	Lap 51 - Finish
Mika Häkkinen 	Michael Schumacher
Now I know it looks rubbish, but I think the idea is good and if someone could do a proper one it'd be interesting to hear what others think of the idea. The width's of the cells in the above example are proportional to the amount of laps the lead was held for, I don't know if this aspect of it is going to work. Alexj2002 08:36, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Have a look at . I can't understand the coding for the life of me, but if you can work it out and condense it down to what would actually be needed, that kind of system could be good (although not using a template, as there'd be too many)... – AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 09:02, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lap Leader table 

message: Are drivers and teams classified in the WDC/WCC at the end of the season if they simply finish a race, or must they score at least one point?  F1 TV graphics (which list zero-point drivers and teams according to the standard tiebreaker) and most of the recent season articles here (such as 2000 Formula One season) suggest the former, while the archives on formula1.com (such as this for 2000) and 1998 Formula One season suggest the latter.  I have doubts about formula1.com, though; the 2006 WDC standings page there claims that de la Rosa and Coulthard are tied for 11th! --Majin Izlude 15:07, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: F1.com is apparently infamous for the number of errors it has; I'm pretty sure the usual rule applies, and you must be classified (90% distance or whatever) in at least one race to be classified in the C'ship. Poor Anthony Davidson was not classified last year as he only raced once and retired, whilst Rob Doornbos, also on zero, finished 6 races and was thus classified. I can't find it on FIA.com, but I'd imagine it would be the same for Davidson in 2002, when he raced twice and retired twice. FIA.com is generally more accurate than most sites I've found. – AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 21:51, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The TV graphics seem to show that, indeed, one classification=total classification. For example, Yamamoto just appeared last race, and there are several drivers that appear with 0 points. Bduddy 04:00, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

text: All WDC(and WCC) ties are, I believe, resolved in the same way as the top spot: most wins, then most seconds, then most thirds, etc... I'm not totally sure about this, but I think the TV graphics, at least, reflect this. Bduddy 04:00, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: WDC/WCC Classification with Zero Points?

message: Would it be worth doing something about this in the 1987 Season article?  (For those of you who don't know, these were the trophies for the winning normally-aspirated driver and constructor in 1987, as part of FISA's move away from, and eventual banning of, turbos).  --Diniz 17:46, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Jim Clark and Colin Chapman Cups (1987)

message: If anyone is interested, there is a dedicated [Motorsport Wiki] currently under development. Any contributions from wikipedians is very much apreciated! MonkeyMumford 15:10, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Motorsport Wiki 

message: Obviously this article is getting a fair bit of "attention" as it has been on the Main Page for the last couple of days, but I think once the hype has died down it is a prime candidate for some kind of collaboration to get it to FA status. But before that happens, the opening paragraph has to be sorted out, specifically, how Schumi is referred to in terms of his achievements in the sport. A debate has been going on for a while on the talk page, just thought I'd bring it to the attention of project members who haven't been following/watching it if you want to put in your $0.02. Cheers – AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 07:23, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Michael Schumacher]] 

message: I just tried to edit this page to replace the very detailed race-by-race descriptions of the 2003-2005 seasons, but my changes were reverted to the longer ones, with the argument that "consistency between F1 biographies is not a good reason to remove such an amount of valid information - the page is not that long and race-by-race summaries are of interest". 
I don't particularly want to annoy the user who reverted my changes, and I don't want to claim that what I wrote was perfect, but I don't think that an overall biography of a driver needs all that detail (and besides, it's available on the race pages if you really want it). Most other drivers seem to have fairly short season summaries, except for the current season. Is there any kind of consensus on the appropriate level of detail to be contained within these summaries? Lidz 18:19, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I mean take FA Damon Hill as an example. That article doesn't mention a race-by-race paragraph like Raikkonen's article does. I think it's because it just gets booring after a while and when Kimi retires, in like 7-10 year, something like that, god knows how long the article will be if it's written as it is now.--Skully Collins 11:45, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Kimi Raikkonen]] 

message: Should a new article created for this team, or should the Midland F1 Racing article be continued?  My understanding is that it is a separate team, and the "MF1" would be dropped if that did not contravene the Concorde Agreement. --Diniz 13:31, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have now changed the name of the article to Spyker MF1 Team, which is the official name given on the FIA website, and all the press releases given by the team. Manipe 19:12, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spyker MF1 Racing 

message: I am adding and revising the 2006 season circuit coordinates, using the WGS84 coordinate system, to allow using the Map Sources feature for all of them. I suggest to include this header in the layout for all racing circuits as they are obvious landmarks.
Another suggestion would be to use the inner side of the start/finish line as the point whose coordinates are given. This way we can avoid the errors introduced by referencing an arbitrary point anywhere in the circuit premises. For straight tracks like drag strips, that do not have an inner side, I would suggest to use the right side of the start/finish line, in the direction of racing.
I will wait for comments on this before including this requirement in the circuit layout. I recommend you to use the Map Sources experimental feature before taking a position on this: it rocks!
I will correct later all the coordinates for F1 circuits, not included in the 2006 season.--Ciroa 14:56, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Circuit Coordinates 

message: It has come to my attention that articles such as the 2006 Serie A scandal cover subjects of contraversy. I was hoping that this project could create a similar article for this years Mass Damper issue, as it's caused much contraversy in F1, such as the question as to "Why it was banned mid-way through the season?". Sorry, just thought it would be a "fun" article to do.--Skully Collins 08:58, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeh absolutely, I think there should be more articles like this on F1. There is an article on this in buildings - Tuned mass damper (this is the same name the FIA referred to it as in their press released IIRC) - we will have to decide whether the application in the Renault deserves its own article, or just to be integrated into that one, like ground effect. – AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 01:25, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mass Damper Article 

message: I think this is now good enough to go for FA status. If anyone who hasn't worked on the article is willing to review it, I'd be grateful. Alexj2002 18:16, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[1994 San Marino Grand Prix]]: [[Wikipedia:Featured article candidates|Featured Article Candidate ]]

message: Luigi Fagioli is shown to have won the 1951 French Grand Prix, but the offical formula 1 website says he came 11th. http://www.formula1.com/archive/driver/detail/1951/266/117.html 
Can someone please explain how he got 4 points for comming 11th? i was updating his F1 results table but i dont know what to do now. -- AAFL 05:14, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Check this. Fangio retired early in the race, and took over Fagioli's car at a pitstop. Under the points system, a win was worth 8 points, split evenly between Fangio and Fagioli; Fangio got an extra point for setting the fastest lap. – AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 06:16, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[1951 French Grand Prix]] 

message: Talbot's page states, in the F1 section, only that it participated in the early eighties. This is obviously untrue: for example, in the 1951 Belgian Grand Prix, they entered seven cars. Can someone with more expertise in this area edit the Talbot article to reflect this? Bduddy 03:56, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Talbot]]

message: I have put this up for Peer Review (as I think this article is close to Featured Article Status) click here if you want to add any comments. Kingjamie 17:21, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have put it up for FAC as I think the article is FA class comments here please .Kingjamie 19:44, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[2005 United States Grand Prix]] 

message: I don't know if this is been discussed before, but would it be a good idea to add how many points a driver scored to the infobox?— Preceding unsigned comment added by Paul Klein (talk • contribs) 
:Good point. Although we're talking about a change that could involve editing over 700 articles! But yes, I do agree that it would be a good addition to the Driver's infobox.--Skully Collins 14:03, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you mean points in the current season or career points? I'm not disagreeing, I just want to raise the points that for a current season tally that would require a lot of updating (e.g. 22 drivers X 18 races). A career tally would require updating as well as being a skewed number - i.e. according to the length of a driver's career. Mark83 23:01, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I would agree with the idea of adding points, career and season, to the infobox. Yes, it would be about 160 changes per year compared to about 60, and would mean 700 articles to update, but it could be hidden until filled in. (the #ifeq: can be a good template, see Template:Infobox NASCAR driver for examples) As far as being skewed, well, yes, but no more so than wins, poles, fast laps, etc... -slowpokeiv 18:30, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I also agree that career points should be included in the infobox.--Diniz 12:03, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

text: p.s. Interestingly, as a measure of how surprisingly accurate this method is, Michael Andretti only just creeps over the 0.5 threshold. Although I am sure someone will find an exception... go on. Pyrope 10:07, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox: points? 

message: Just deleted some lines from the McLaren article along the lines of 'Raikkonen must have been disappointed...' and 'Both drivers will be hoping however that the car they are given is somewhat better...'. While these might make the article nicer to read, it's still speculation. We're an encyclopedia, not a Racing Magazine, and we probably shouldn't  be writing like one. If we have quotes from the drivers about their feelings about something, we should quote them, not write in speculation over what they are. --Barberio 12:19, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Don't write like a Racing Magazine 

message: After much hard work by Alexj2002 and others, 1994 San Marino Grand Prix is now on the Featured Article Candidates list - most of the objections have been dealt with, but there's a bit of a lack of people supporting it. If you feel that the article is of Featured Article standard, please visit its discussion page and show your support. Cheers. --4u1e 13:11, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  1994 San Marino Grand Prix