Talk:Avoidant personality disorder

message: Nonprofit helping links devoted to helping people with avoidant personality disorder should not have been removed from this site. Wikipedia does not prohibit having a few (relevant) nonprofit resource links added in an "External Links Section" at the bottom of the page.
Wikipedia policy discourages fanatical, obsessive and especially thoughtless removal of links. A relevant nonprofit link has nothing in common with a commercial link, although some wiki editors haven't figured that out...
I ask for help from administrators and editors to prevent or reverse fanatical removal of relevant nonprofit links from this site... Please appeal over the heads of thoughtless nonprofit link removals. Aggressive removal of appropriate links is vandalism.
69.171.160.192 (talk) 21:14, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Fanatical deletion of relevant non-profit links

message: I'm not sure Kantor's book should be referenced here, at least not without a caveat. Most of the cases he discusses seem to be about what we'd call "commitment-phobic" behaviours rather than the more broad spectrum of AvPD, i.e. general avoidance of social interaction, and the problems this produces.--Eyeresist 01:34, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Kantor's book

message: As I mentioned in the Borderline Personality Disorder discussion page, I'm doing some research for a novel I'm writing, with a character who I thought had BDP.  Having read this article on Avoidant Personality Disorder though, it seems like my character is more of an AvPD than a BPD.  Thanks Wikipedia!  However, I think those with AvPD share some similarities with BPDs.  It's interesting stuff.
- Geelin 14:08, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If someone can please refer me to some professionals in Sydney, Australia, whom I can speak to about AvPD for my novel, that would be most appreciated.  Can anyone assist me?
Cheers, Geelin 08:15, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Novel research #2 

message: It appears that the citations in the article are scholarly but not really very wikiupdated. So I propose that the format of citation in this article be converted to a more "linkful" one. I'm no expert on citation in wikipedia but I've seen other articles with external links which are more convenient to reference. However, I've just looked through the now recommended cite.php footnotes format extension (not the deprecated Footnote3 system), and I understand why there is an almost complete lack of external links cited and referenced. The system is quite a bit more intimidating, and the old Footnote3 format, which I was just getting the hang of, will someday soon be obsolete. So the author here chose to use an alternate method, which is acceptable according to one of the citing wikipages I've read. I propose that interested contributors discuss an appropriate re-citing to allow extensive external links. This could be either finding a willing cite.php adept to re-cite the present references, or one of the presently interested contributors changing over the present cites to Footnote3 so that it can be converted later, via a bot, also wielded by an adept.
Interested parties please respond so we can all start thinking about this. Don't forget to use colons to indent your entries and please sign them so we all know who is saying what.
Now I want to add a citation that is marked "needed" in the article. By the way, this entry emphasises the above comments because some of the sources cited themselves offer a wealth of information as well as numerous corroborations and bibliographies, which enriches understanding. I had better create a new heading here so future editors can easily find this.Bearpa 18:04, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussing citing format before providing the needed citation 

message: I wish to comment but there's a problem w/ your post that led me on a wild goose edit where I had to learn about reverts and undoing revert revisions (if that makes any sense at all). Anyway let me just copy an entry that was part of that ill-fated effort that might explain:
Sorry, I was not signed on when first appending the above unsigned signature (the posting was by Portillo on 30 September 2006). I'm getting an "editing a prior version" warning so that I'm worried I will unintentionally revert all later version (and entries?); if I do I will try to undo (not to sure of myself when it comes to the intricacies). If you'll notice, though, there are two equal sign (==) on only one side of the entry and there is no edit link (edit) in this post's section so there seems to have been a prob. w/the post, but I want to comment on this post. I hope I haven't flubbed things too much; not my intention. Live and learn. (Much chaos ensued when saved, but I'm OK now)
What got me started here was that I really wanted to comment, to Portillo or any others, that this is a good question and I am curious as well, also about personality or anxiety disorders affecting those with long-term intrusive disease or medical conditions and/or long-term, chronic, or severe recurring pain. Anyone with experiences? Bearpa 04:03, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  To the "widow" unsigned post at the top of this page: 

message: am i missing something? why is 'the white rabbit' listed?71.232.108.228 07:13, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Seeing as people with AvPD tend to avoid social interaction, are socially inhibited, et cetera, it seems unlikely that there will be many "well known" sufferers. --Mark PEA 14:16, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Ted Kaczynski, perhaps? - Cyborg Ninja 11:10, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  No. Aikaterinē 17:08, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Joseph Cornell, reportedly. --80.235.111.150 (talk) 19:21, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

text: Holden most like had what used to be masochistic personality disorder, pathological lying, and passive-aggressive personality disorder. Peter Pan syndrome also seems plausible. I realize that most of these are not current diagnoses, but they do describe him quite well. MichaelExe (talk) 19:53, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that Holden probably had AvPD. Fanny Price from Mansfield Park definitely did. Also Danielle Jones, Jean from American Psycho and probably Eve Harrington from All About Eve. --194.81.33.7 (talk) 19:39, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Tom Ripley seemed to suffer from the disorder in the Matt Damon version of The Talented Mr Ripley. In the books he's more narcissistic or psychopathic. --194.81.33.7 (talk) 13:20, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Toshiko Sato from Torchwood. Most characters in that have a personality disorder. --86.134.23.181 (talk) 17:29, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Kurt Wallander. --194.81.33.9 (talk) 18:05, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable sufferers? 

message: Should this link here? The Encyclopedia Britannica article on this is concerned mainly with behavior in nature, such as antipredator behaviors. Richard001 01:38, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No. Avoidant behavior in nature is instinctive.  In humans, it is both instinctive and premeditated.  However avoidant behavior, whether reactive or responsive, is a mechanism of preservation.  A personality disorder presumes an atypical interpretation of reality and is not a mechanism of preservation, but a disturbance of character. Good question, though. --DashaKat 12:44, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Is this even a real disorder then? If avoidance of the unknown is instinctive, wouldn't avoidance of social interaction be a natural attribute of somebody with a limited social world?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.188.240.123 (talk) 20:35, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Avoidance in and of itself is not inherently a disorder, to some extent it is natural and healthy. The difference between that and a disorder is that in a disorder like AvPD the person avoids things so much that their avoidant behavior makes their life more difficult, rather than help them. The avoidant behavior becomes maladaptive, not adaptive. Lorus (talk) 16:31, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Avoidance behavior]]

message: This is a page on Avoidant personality disorder.  It is not a page on neurotic styles.  Putting a differentiation section on this page creates an editorial situation where this type of section would then be required on every personality disorders page.
We would be better off creating a page on Shadow syndromes, or Neurotic styles, as opposed to addressing this here.  --DashaKat 17:05, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And a page on made up fantasy diseases used as a crutch to explain away social ineptitude  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.188.240.123 (talk) 20:05, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Right, and depression is a made-up disease to explain away being a bit down in the dumps. Could I ask you please, if you're going to continue attacking people with this disorder, do it somewhere more appropriate, this page is intended for comments on the article, not the subject itself. --Closedmouth (talk) 04:23, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

text:  Unsigned, why are you saying that about people who might recognize all the symptoms of  AvPD in themselves,  and maybe feel the need to get treatment so they can get over it?  Usually people say things like what you said about something like Asperger's Syndrome, which has no known cure. (I'm not saying Asperger's is made up; I'm just saying that it (AS) is something that I've heard people being accused of saying they had AS when they were just a little socially inept or shy.)   If someone wanted to "explain away" social ineptitude, presumably without doing any work on themselves, wouldn't they say they had something incurable, because they might think that no one would wonder why they don't work on their social ineptitude. With something like AvPD and social anxiety disorder, if someone kept saying they couldn't do things because of it, eventually someone would call them on it and wonder why they didn't get treatment for their AvPD.  Most people would probably rather have friends and do well socially.   If they recognize that something like a personality disorder or an anxiety disorder is keeping them from this, shouldn't they get help for it rather than have people say they're making excuses for social ineptitude?  What do you propose they do about their social ineptitude then, if it's caused by excessive fear and/or hiding from others because of their misperceived ideas about themselves or others?  --Norah (talk) 10:35, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed 'style' section 

message: what about eating disorders?
I think a list of comorbidities would be easier to quickly read than prose form.  anyone else?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.43.212.236 (talk) 08:38, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comorbidities 

message: This sentence, in the first section, needs clarification: "Whether the feeling of rejection is due to the extreme interpersonal monitoring attributed to people with the disorder is still disputed."  Does this mean that they pay too much attention to people around them, or that they are paid too much attention to?  -Me, 5/7/08  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.118.73.116 (talk) 09:49, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The former. --Closedmouth (talk) 12:45, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clarification 

message: "Investment in fixed fantasies"  What does this mean?  I read the article on fixed fantasies, but a few examples would help, I think. AzureFury  (talk | contribs) 08:51, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it kind of means daydreaming, but with recurring themes, like fantasizing that they are friends and can easily talk to people who in reality they have never spoken to before. --Mark PEA (talk) 22:55, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

text: I've found another example in Timothy_McVeigh#Biography. He was picked on by bullies at school, and took refuge in a fantasy world in which he retaliated against them. The article also says that he was "known throughout his life as a loner", which to me implies that he was also avoidant. --Mark PEA (talk) 12:57, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting...thanks. AzureFury  (talk | contribs) 17:18, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fixed fantasies 

message: Thank You. 19:04, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Your welcome. Portillo (talk) 21:51, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  To those who worked on this page (I don't mean the talk page) 

message: This page used to feature links to chat rooms for AvPD sufferers and no longer does. Is this some sort of policy decision? Anyway, the old chat room for avoidants seems to have closed down. To try and replace it an IRC channel for AvPD has been created, maybe it can be linked to from here. Its irc://irc.slackhost.net/avpd. Easiest way to get there is prolly to use Mibbit through this link http://www.mibbit.com/chat/?server=irc.slackhost.net&channel=%23avpd#  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.251.28.105 (talk) 08:59, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Links to AvPD chat rooms? 

message: In schizoid personality disorder and paranoid personality disorder, we distinguish them from mood disorders.
I went through a depression (of the melancholic subtype, I assume) last year, but some of my symptoms overlapped with this disorder, namely:
*"Shows restraint initiating intimate relationships because of the fear of being ashamed, ridiculed, or rejected due to severe low self-worth", (I had just gone through a failed relationship a couple months before the depression, but I still couldn't let go, and still can't because we share(d) almost all of our classes)
*"Is inhibited in new interpersonal situations because of feelings of inadequacy", (although I was "shy" all of the time throughout my depression)
*"Views self as socially inept, personally unappealing, or inferior to others", and 
*"Is unusually reluctant to take personal risks or to engage in any new activities because they may prove embarrassing".
Even though I had the required amount of symptoms, I doubt that I suffered from this personality disorder. 
My depression started after I had acted stubborn toward my parents, and the stress of schoolwork, topped by a failed relationship, procrastination and what sounds like obsessive-compulsive personality disorder, contributed to the anxiety, but my depression ended with the school year (after it was so unbearable that I told my parents, and went for one uncomfortable session with a psychologist). I also had most of the symptoms of dysthymia but they didn't last nearly long enough. 
SO (for all you tl;dr's), I'd like to know whether major depressive disorder (which also included low self-esteem in its description) should cancel out the diagnosis of avoidant personality disorder, as it does with schizoid and paranoid personality disorders, because they share symptoms (that mostly didn't persist longer than the depression, in my case). I was anxious all of the time, and even more so around people (although I still feel nervous when at the mall or during oral presentations, as I always have), but I met nearly all of the criteria for a major depressive episode. Should we leave a note about this? MichaelExe (talk) 15:58, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Distinguishing from depression 

message: I tried to sign up with this group the other day.  I don't seem to fit the requirements, though.  I asked on another avoidant forum whether anybody was ever able to get an account there, and most said that they tried but got rejected as I did.  I don't think the group should be mentioned in the article. --Anonymous Avoidant, 3 August 2009  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.150.68.76 (talk) 23:47, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: They might judge based on the severity of the disorder. Perhaps they only accept those comorbid with a type of depression? MichaelExe (talk) 23:09, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

text: I had no problem signing up for the group about a month or so ago. Were you sure to follow all the instructions during sign up? They will reject you if you do not type in the reason you want to join the group. It is their way of trying to protect against spammers. The only thing I put was that I had been suffering from AvPD for so many years, and I was approved within a few hours. It is a legit site, and therefore there is no reason it shouldn't be mentioned in the article. Cokie500 (talk) 06:03, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  BigTent Avoidant Group 

message: The American Psychiatric Association has not released its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders into public domain, but claims copyright. The Wikimedia Foundation has received a letter of complaint (Ticket:2010030910040817, for those with access) about the use of their diagnostic criteria in this and a number of other articles. Currently, this content is blanked pending investigation, which will last approximately one week. Please feel free to provide input at the copyright problems board listing during that time. Individuals with access to the books would be particularly welcome in helping to conduct the investigation. Assistance developing a plan to prevent misuse of the APA's material on Wikipedia projects would also be welcome. Thank you.  Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:56, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Copyright problems with diagnostic criteria

message: Hi,
I created an external link section for this page and linked to a youtube clip of a subjective account of the disorder by a sufferer.
The clip is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQ7qYH4ud4U
I've two questions. 1) Is all youtube content to be considered under copyright? 
2) Obviously external sources should be authorities on the subject. However, this is a link providing a subjective, first-person narrative of the disorder. It is not claiming a clinical perspective, but it should, I think, be considered authoritative as to the possible personal experience of the disorder. It's a very articulate and accurate account from the sufferer's perspective. Are all such sources barred from usage in wiki articles?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by FiachraByrne (talk • contribs) 13:48, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: wikipedia never normally allows youtube as a source as it is not reliable, most videos on there are peoples own work. we have had revert any attempts to use it a source before and will continue to do so. Also youtube videos are copywrited, try uploading a video there with  a Lady Gaga or Justin Timberlake song and you'll find your video muted or even removed by WMG faster then you can say rickroll. --Lerdthenerd wiki defender 09:17, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: This is from the policy statement of wikipedia on external links: "There is no blanket ban on linking to YouTube or other user-submitted video sites, as long as the links abide by the guidelines on this page (see Restrictions on linking and Links normally to be avoided). Many videos hosted on YouTube or similar sites do not meet the standards for inclusion in External links sections, and copyright is of particular concern. Many YouTube videos of newscasts, shows or other content of interest to Wikipedia visitors are copyright violations. Links should be evaluated for inclusion with due care on a case-by-case basis. Links to online videos should also identify the software necessary for readers to view the content. For example, all links to YouTube videos should, if applicable, indicate that Flash Video software or a web browser supporting H.264/MPEG-4 AVC is necessary to see the content." There is no blanket ban on the use of YouTube as an external link. I'm not talking about using it as a source. Not all youtube videos are under copyright and there is no way that this particular video is under copyright. It is not a commercial release and is no way equivalent to a Lady Gaga or Justin Timberlake tune which would operate under copyright for very obvious reasons. FiachraByrne (talk) 11:07, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I've reposted the YouTube link. As you haven't replied here or at your Userpage I assume that there is no problem. Just to reiterate, this video does not infringe any 3rd party copyright in any way. Further, it provides a credible first-person account of the condition. This is by its nature a subjective account but it provides an insight into the condition that clinicians cannot provide. Any assessment as to this external link's "authority" in this context needs to evaluate the material (i.e. watch the clip and assess the quality of the statements made in that clip by the sufferer and not just reflexively delete on the basis that the link is to a YouTube clip). I think people who have received a diagnosis of AvPD will recognise something of themselves in this clip. Also, please respond here first before any attempt at summary deletion of the link.FiachraByrne (talk) 01:58, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  External Link - subjective account of AvPD on YouTube 

message: I propose to add some more information  of the disorder by adding some more details about the subject and those affected by it. Below is what i would like to add:
Avoidant personality disorder is more commonly found to be diagnosed in females than in males. Those with this disorder may often choose jobs of isolation so that they do not have to interact with the public regularly, do to their anxiety and fear of embarrassing themselves in front of others. Some afflicted by this disorder may fantasize about idealized, accepting, and affectionate relationships, do to their desire to belong. They often feel themselves unworthy of the relationships they desire so they shame themselves from ever attempting the relationship at all.  Tncook10 (talk) 16:45, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adding to Sign and Symptoms 

message: this word appears in the table of subtypes as a characteristic of the conflicted avoidant type. The word links to an article about the sudden intensification of seizures and other neurological problems. It doesn't look relevant at all. Unless Millon was using the word metaphorically to mean that people suffering from this have sudden periods of feeling much worse about themselves? Lucy Kemnitzer (talk) 02:16, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Paroxysmic?" 

message: This may not be quite accurate - a person with this disorder would never want to speak in front of a large group "as themselves" but be quite comfortable doing this "in their professional capacity" e.g. lecturer, chairperson, preacher, teacher, tour guide (and yes, despite appearances they may get gang pressed into any of these roles) where the emphasis is not on putting one's self forward, but ensuring that a message gets across... 2A01:CB0C:CD:D800:49E7:4428:F49B:8CCB (talk) 09:24, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Avoidant individuals also avoid performing activities in public spaces for fear of embarrassing themselves in front of others."