Category talk:Volcanoes of Java/Archive 1

message: This article is written in the form of a narrative, improper in an encyclopaedic setting. Replaced the very general cleanup tag with a specific tone one. --Joshua Boniface 16:30, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree - but notice most of that narrative has now gone, and this article is in the process of being redone. Merbabu 13:37, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Improper tone

message: Mount Merapia section directly contradicts the article to which it links. rhaas 16:18, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Mount Merapi

message: This article is a disgrace! Should either be re-written or it deserves AFd - for no refs, no sources, very poor writing,and other crimes not worth drawing attention to. SatuSuro 13:04, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: YEs - completely agree. This article is rubbish but the topic is very important. I made a start, but when i get the time i will work on it much more - anyone else of course feel free in the meantime. I think i will start by ripping out most of what is here, merge this page with the page for the :Category:Volcanoes_of_Java and provide GENERAL info on the significance of volcanoes to Java (ecologically, culturally, historically, etc) rather than reams of info on specific mountains which would belong on individual mountain pages. I have some reasonably academic sources at home on this - but time is the issue. Merbabu 02:26, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you very much for your response and agreement.. Time is always the issue :)  I am about to uncover materials in the near future. SatuSuro 09:49, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

text: I am not sure if this article is necessary, as each volcanoe has its own article page. It would be better to put this article as category page as Merbabu suggested. I am going to help, but in the specific each volcanoe section. I voted for AFD. — Indon 07:32, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It was important for an overview (sigh) with a list and links, but now its gone for afd (sigh) - the context of the original message above was - either re-written.. or afd for the very specific reason as an overview article, it can place linking information that would otherwise be repeated in all the separate volcano articles.  The problem with putting up for afd is that editors with no knowledge of java (is it coffee? or the programming language) or volcanoes tend to join in (sigh). Merbabu had agreed but the topic is very important which I agree having lived in the shadow of an active javan volcano (sigh) Here we go again! SatuSuro 08:16, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[WP:AFD | AFD]]?

message: Its not on the log - it would be better to have a discussion here first.
It should be retained as an overview article:
* List of Volcanoes in Java - active and extinct
* Map of Volcanoes
* General geological reasons (java trench, subduction zone)
* General bibliography
It should not be deleted for those reasons  :)  SatuSuro 08:33, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What about shifing that sort of info to the category Volcanoes of Java - and then linking this page to the category? Is there anything stopping us making an article out of the category page? That way we have this general info and can "automatically" update the list - AND it is all in one spot. One problem with wikipedia is you often get this kind of repetition. But, once again, it is the time to do it. Merbabu 12:51, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The article as a "mother" article can link to the others - IMHO you cannot simply put the info into the the catgory page, but maybe you can. SatuSuro 13:13, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well, the idea of using the category page only occured to me the other day - seems to make better sense than two similar pages (ie, this one and the category). Who says we can't? ;-).  Anyway, i started the process the other day. Just to be clear, i would not suggest moving much of the info that is in this article - quality is an issue. Rather, start again with the type of info that you and i (and hopefully some of the others soon) have suggested here. Merbabu 14:41, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Afd?

message: Maybe you need educating? :) SatuSuro 13:19, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It may be encyclopedic editing but I am in the mood to do it on he wild side tonight - someone said something about being bold. Merbabu 13:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: every time, as they used to say ;SatuSuro 13:23, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sandboxes

message: I've deleted whole sections - some of them were shockers. What do people think of that final tangkuban prahu section? Anything worth salvaging there? My philosophy has been that this was such a bad article, on such an important topic that we shoudl just start again. Merbabu 13:23, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I dunno if anyone else is watching yet, I say we be bold and pull the crap! SatuSuro 15:15, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Deletions

message: Writing articles from scratch is a lot harder than editing other people's work. There is lot more to write, but i think a good effort has been made.
Suggested new topics (not necessarily section headings):
* Geological History
* Ecological Benefit (rainfull, fertility)
* Disasters
* Cultural context, symbolism, etc
* List of Volcanoes in Java - active and extinct
* Map of Volcanoes
* General geological reasons (java trench, subduction zone)
* General bibliography
* tourism
Merbabu 13:31, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Previous discussion on Volcanoes of Java were the basic items are needed -
* Geological History - why repeat java trench and other arts?  better small intro with many links and try to give the geols their bit of glory :)
* Ecological Benefit (rainfull, fertility) - you got the refs? go for it
* Disasters - beyond the overdone ones (krakatoa etc) - kelut, and more obscure ones are needed
* Cultural context, symbolism, etc  - it works across the island - have fun finding the full range of stuff on that one :)
* List of Volcanoes in Java - active and extinct - we already have the list - just needs more annotation
* Map of Volcanoes - needs to be clear - most website maps are so cluttered and noisy as to be practically useless :)
* General geological reasons (java trench, subduction zone) (same as geol history)
* General bibliography - not available - try webites first (mostly usa) - more talk later on this one :)
* tourism - better, local traditions of visiting - in cultural context, and separately -
* climbing volcanoes - - whatevber.  (ayers rock comes to mind - locals vs outsiders and diff ways of viewing the places)
SatuSuro 13:41, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

text: My list above was just a cut and paste from the list we each made on the old page. So some reptition. As with everything, the idea is not to repeat everything that is elsewhere, but to link it althogether in the Java context - but you know that. As for tourism and who actually climbs, i think i have only climbed volcanoes with Indonesians (and i don't mean porters or guides). lol Merbabu 13:49, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: This is a good start

message: Here is the list of Javanese volcanoes in alphabetical order from List of volcanoes it may inspire some, or enthrall others :)  It provides very useful information for further info :) SatuSuro 14:10, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Reinventing the Wheel

message: * Muria SatuSuro 15:26, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Disambig links needed