Talk:Sápmi

message: An article covering the same region has been started at Sapmi, it should be merged with Lapland. See also Talk:Sapmi -- Mic 13:41, May 19, 2004 (UTC)
: See Talk:Sapmi. I wish that the article about Finnmark, Lappland, Lapland and Kola halvön (Norway, Sweden, Finland and Russia) should be named Sapmi or Sápmi. // Rogper 16:17, 19 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: No, that was not suppose to be specific to Sami. 
The comment about "fjällen" was reintroduced, together with "Fennoscandia". Sorry, but Fennoscandia means Finland, Sweden and Norway, which is a much larger area. "Fjällen" means the mountain range, which is a much smaller area. Bvalltu 17:40, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)

text: Okay, take it or leave it. I'm referring to "the Fells" earlier in the article! :-) Fennoscandia include the Scandinavian part of the Caledonian rock (have I learned) and therefore not the whole Nordic. // Rogper 19:13, 13 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sapmi 

message: I think this article is a bit centred on the Swedish part of Sapmi, especially the conflicst-section. I am not saying that they ernt relevant, but it should be stated there that the information applies to the swedish part. Inge 16:28, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Expanding and evolving

message: The Sami are not called Finns in Norway. They are called samer. Several of the statements in the People-section seems to be a bit wrong. I am not sure if it is correct to say that the majority of samiland is sami either, but that is probably subject to how it is defined. It is probably not right to say that most sami herd reindeer either. Inge 16:15, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: People Section

message: Is it really necessary to say that only a minority of Saami are involved in reindeer herding in the introduction? To someone who knows nothing about the Saami—which I assure you is the majority of Australians, at least—it is so completely out-of-place it's just not funny. Maybe somewhere else... I hearby propose it's reworded to and placed elsewhere. Felix the Cassowary 10:07, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a bit like saying "Every Swissman is not a clocksmith" on an article about Switzerland; on the other hand, people might have unusual impressions and prejudices, but on the other hand, it's a bit misplaced. --Vuo 22:59, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reindeer herding 

message: A majority of the current population of this region has Sami ancestry, yet most identify with their respective nation-state ethnicities (only non-assimilated Sami are counted as Sami).
I interpret this sentance to something like this (excagerated): The majority of the population are in fact Sami, but they have had their identities oppressed and at the same time you can not be counted as a Sami if you speak a non-Sami language, wear non-Sami clothes or do not work with reindeer. 
Any estimates about the ethnic divisions in this area are difficult. Many "non-Sami" might have Sami ancestors and many Sami might have non-Sami ancestors. So statements about this should be built on hard facts and surveys. The facts are that the non-sami population are in a huge majority. To speculate about some sami ancestry in the majority population in order to make them sami as well is not the way to go. I am sure that many Norwegians in Finnmark and other places with large sami populations have sami ancestry even if they concider themselves mostly Norwegian (ethnicly speaking). But this also has to do with identity and there is no contradiciton between being Sami and Norwegian (you can easily be both). A Norwegian public survey counted as Sami (for the purpose of the survey) all those who had at least one great grand-parent who spoke Sami. This made the Norwegian Samis number about 70 000. To say that only non-assimilated sami are consicered sami is not true and might be offensive to people who concider themselves Sami but don't live "traditionally" or speak Sami. I would like to remove this sentance and explain the situation in a better way. How can we best do this? Inge 17:15, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ethnicity 

message: Hi there. This article seems to be inconsistent in the spelling, the intro prefers the Scandinavian Sami, while further down the Finnish version Saami predominates. I prefer Sami. //Big Adamsky 22:32, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I have changed the spelling. I think this was due to the fact that a long time ago I merged the Samiland article into this one. --Khoikhoi 01:27, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Fennicisms

message: I have removed the following terms from the intro: Sameland, Lappi, and Lappland. The first is the Norwegian word for Sapmi. Lappi I believe is the Finnish word for the Finnish Lappi region, and not for the entire Sampi. Similarly I believe Lappland is the Swedish word for the Swedish Lappland region only.Labongo 13:41, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I also think the article should be moved to Sapmi since it is the term prefered by the Sami people and is being increasingly used in english instead of Lapland.Labongo 13:44, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Terms

message: Lapland → Sápmi — I propose to move this article to Sapmi, since it is the term prefered by the Sami people and is being increasingly used in english instead of Lapland. This will also make it clearer that the articles is not about Finnish Lapland or Swedish Lappland.Labongo 15:12, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Add  # Support  or  # Oppose  on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~.
====Survey - Support votes====
# Support, since I suggested the move.Labongo 09:52, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Add any additional comments:
I must object. First, while "Lapp" is often considered derogatory, this is not really the case with "Lapland" as a name of the area. Lapland is the generally used geographic designation in English, and the same concerns e.g. "Lappi" in Finnish. In newer references "Sa(a)mi" has already replaced the older term "Lapp", but "Lapland" as a geographical term has not been generally replaced by "Sápmi" or the like. While the usage of the latter may have somewhat increased, it is still marginal and not stylistically neutral; I don't think we can make a page move which would violate a commonly accepted usage. --AAikio 07:46, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I have done some searching on the Internet and have found both names used by the United Nation, European Union and Lonely Planet. It seems like the english term used depends on the country of origin of the speaker, or where they have learned about the Sami. If the author/information is from Norway "Sapmi (Samiland)" is usually used, since Lapland is not commonly used in Norwegian. This is also reflected by the top ten results for the google queries "Sapmi" and "Lapland", where the Sapmi sites are about "things" in Norway and Sweden, while Lapland are for "things" in Finland. In conclusion, I don't find any of the names more commonly used (at least on the Internet).Labongo 11:18, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you want to go through with the move, please go through WP:RM and go through the full procedure. -Patstuarttalk|edits 20:34, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think I have gone through all the steps now.Labongo 13:24, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

text: The article has been reorganized by moving large parts to Sami people and the remaining parts to Sápmi. See also the discussion below.Labongo 11:07, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 

message: :Add  # Support  or  # Oppose  on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~.
====Survey - Support votes====
# Support, since I suggested the move.Labongo 09:52, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: # Support, since I suggested the move.Labongo 09:52, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey - Support votes

message: # Based on the comment below, I assume AAikio oppose.Labongo 09:53, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey - Oppose votes

message: :Add any additional comments:
I must object. First, while "Lapp" is often considered derogatory, this is not really the case with "Lapland" as a name of the area. Lapland is the generally used geographic designation in English, and the same concerns e.g. "Lappi" in Finnish. In newer references "Sa(a)mi" has already replaced the older term "Lapp", but "Lapland" as a geographical term has not been generally replaced by "Sápmi" or the like. While the usage of the latter may have somewhat increased, it is still marginal and not stylistically neutral; I don't think we can make a page move which would violate a commonly accepted usage. --AAikio 07:46, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have done some searching on the Internet and have found both names used by the United Nation, European Union and Lonely Planet. It seems like the english term used depends on the country of origin of the speaker, or where they have learned about the Sami. If the author/information is from Norway "Sapmi (Samiland)" is usually used, since Lapland is not commonly used in Norwegian. This is also reflected by the top ten results for the google queries "Sapmi" and "Lapland", where the Sapmi sites are about "things" in Norway and Sweden, while Lapland are for "things" in Finland. In conclusion, I don't find any of the names more commonly used (at least on the Internet).Labongo 11:18, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you want to go through with the move, please go through WP:RM and go through the full procedure. -Patstuarttalk|edits 20:34, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think I have gone through all the steps now.Labongo 13:24, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

text: The article has been reorganized by moving large parts to Sami people and the remaining parts to Sápmi. See also the discussion below.Labongo 11:07, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion

message: Lapland is a northern region of eastern Europe. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.182.202.226 (talk) 17:29, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lapland 

message: Why isn't this article at Sápmi? /81.170.235.234 14:59, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sápmi can also refer to the theme park in Karasjok  (that was stupidly enough allowed to use that name).Labongo 09:57, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name 

message: I see that the part that I restored was simply deleted because it was supposedly plagiarised from Encarta. Of course, simply deleting text out of an article is not particularly smart as it usually makes the article incoherent (the title of the section made little sense without mentioning mineral resources, and consequently was mistakenly changed later). The logical solution is to simply rewrite the text. Can someone who is better than me at that do that? --Florian Blaschke (talk) 01:31, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Natural resources 

message: Is it possible to stop these bots adding interwikis to wrong articles?--SM (talk) 20:26, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bot 

message: I noticed two things that suggest Sápmi (area) and Lapland (region) should be merged:
# Currently, the Lapland (region) article reads "The name Lapland refers to land inhabited by the Sami people" while Sápmi article reads "Sápmi is the name of the cultural region traditionally inhabited by the Sami people"
# As already mentioned, the Sápmi (area) article originally existed at Lapland https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=S%C3%A1pmi_(area)&diff=116465496&oldid=116315311
Even if there are perceived minute differences in what parts are considered Sápmi and what parts are considered Lapland (from my understanding, neither have unambiguous borderlines anyway), if it's just word usage trivia, make a small passing note in  the article. We shouldn't duplicate articles for the sake of our readers. --Makkachin (talk) 07:46, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: However, the Norwegian and Russian parts of the area "Sápmi" are neither formally called "Lapland", nor considered part of "Lapland" by its inhabitants
Does that ever matter? For example, Germany is called Germany in the English language dictionaries and world maps. Inhabitants call it Deutschland, so it turns out. Is the word Germany suddenly invalid? Does the fact that inhabitants call their land by a different name proof positive that modern day marketers are introducing lies into Wikipedia for the sake of tourism, no citation necessary? Take another example: Ryukyu Islands. Ryukyu Shoto, which means "Ryukyu Islands" in Japanese, encompasses a subset of the English term "Ryukyu Islands." Inhabitants of the Kagoshima Prefecture portion would not define their land as "Ryukyu Islands" because that's an English language word. Does that automatically mean that (1) "Ryukyu Islands" is a modern day invention that's made up by marketers, no citation needed and (2) the article "Ryukyu Islands" needs to be split into two articles to drive home point (1)? Take another example: Turin. Locals call their city Torino, not Turin. Does that mean the word "Turin" was a modern day invention by marketers, no citation needed? To me it seems like the article is adding a fake distinction between the two words on the basis that the English language terminology is unfamiliar to the inhabitants. --Makkachin (talk) 08:25, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lapland vs. Sápmi 

message: The article currently says:
:"About 700,000 people inhabit the Swedish counties Norrbotten, Västerbotten, Västernorrland and Jämtland. Many of the counties' inhabitants are not exclusively Swedish. Notable minority groups include the Sami, Tornedalians and Finns."
Exactly what is the definition of an inhabitant being "Swedish"? Being from Jämtland I don't consider myself Swedish other than in terms of citizenship. In fact, both Finns (living in Sweden) and Tornedalians are more Swedish than me since Tornedalen and Finland have been parts of Sweden for 800 and 600 years, respectively, while Jämtland has only been part of it for about 350 years. Why not use the term "Scandinavian" instead of "Swedish" (or "Norwegian" for that matter)? (217.208.138.80 (talk) 01:27, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Swedish" inhabitants 

message: Hey, why is this article called Sápmi (area) and not just Sápmi, or at least Sápmi (region) or Sápmi (Nation), because in the norwegian wiki, it is spelled just "Sameland" (Which means Sapmi in norwegian) and it is considered a region there, so either have it be a region, a nation or nothing. By nation, I mean the same as Kurdistan, Basque country etc... Definition of nation: "A nation refers to a large group of people who share a common language, culture, ethnicity, descent, or history." --85.113.164.206 (talk) 08:42, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point. I'll request a move. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 21:05, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Three years later, but I wish to be pedantic. The terms "nation" and "country" have specific meanings. Sápmi is the country of the Saami nation; Kurdistan is the country of the Kurdish nation; Euskadi is the country of the Basque nation; Scotland is the country of the Scottish nation. Countries are regional in nature, whereas nations are cultural in nature. In short, the country is the land-thing and nation is the people-thing, despite the fact we often use the word "nation" to refer to "states" or "nation-states." I do not understand why we do not call Sápmi an unrecognised country. Thoughts? --Danachos (talk) 04:00, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why the "(area)"? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The article itself says the region is in English more commonly known as Lapland. Per WP:COMMONNAME that should be the name. Wikipedia is no forum for politicly correctness. Also WP:UE is in place here. --Wester (talk) 22:33, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move to Lapland