Talk:The New Church (Swedenborgian)

message: From the article:
"There are 25 churches left in England and a handful of ministers. The denomination in the 19th century had over a hundred churches in the UK, often very grand churches very Anglican in style with large chancels, side pulpits and altars. Nearly all of these churches have closed or rebuilt in the late 20th century. Some remain in London."
This needs clarification and citation, as the 25 churches left in England are not active churches - they have either been redenominated or repurposed, even though the structures remain. I can find no church in London where the New Church doctrine is preached with any regularity. Or am I mistaken, and just not looking hard enough? 82.148.46.46 (talk) 09:16, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Churches remaining in England? 

message: Is the article "The" part of the proper name?  If not, the article needs to be moved to "New Church."  --ElKevbo 15:49, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know about "the wrestling thing," but what's the difference between this article and Swedenborgianism? Arch O. La Grigrory Deepdelver 21:23, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

text: It sounds to me like the difference between branches of the same sect. Your explanation does not quite illuminate. Try again? KillerChihuahua?!? 15:51, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  THE new Church? 

message: If these are merged, I'd like the name of the page to be something like The New Church (Swedenborgianism), putting the members' name for it first and the common name second.  Is this standard for Wikipedia?  Is there a standard?  Any other ideas?  See also my comments on the Talk:Swedenborgianism page. Coleman Glenn 03:37, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Umm okay. Could the influence section be a bit more differentiated in least? Likely non-religious people influenced by reading Swedenborg, and not so much influenced by the "New Church, would think of themselves more as "Swedenborgians." Just like there are Thomists or Randians not necessarily connected to the religions known for them.--T. Anthony 06:04, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge with [[Swedenborgianism]]? 

message: This article needs to be glossed over for POV statements. I caught atleast one. 
208.248.33.30
:The article reads like an infomercial. Even the "criticism" section is an apologetic. And yet there is no notice to the reader. Grace and peace thru the Lord Jesus (talk) 23:16, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV? 

message: New Church .vs. The New Church.  "New Church" can be anyone's newly built church.  "The New Church" is our specific one, incorporating not so much the materialistic aspect of a new building but the spiritual aspect of a new religion.  Inclusion of "The" seems essential to me.
Swedenborgianism .vs. The New Church
To use the definitions already on the Wikipedia, and to expand slightly:
Swedenborgianism is about beliefs developed from the writings, and a personal relationship with God.
The New Church is about teachings found in the writings, and our collective relationship with God.
As a dragon, the intellectual study of Swedenborgianism brings me to a spiritual understanding of The New Church.
They cannot be merged into one, they are two distinctly separate things, but depend on each other.
67.62.28.197 02:27, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  a dragon speaks 

message: Could the tone of this be deflated somewhat, to read like a neutral report rather than a tract?--Wetman (talk) 01:30, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Tone

message: In reviewing this article, the doctrine section covers a lot of ground and needs to be subdivided.  I was going to initially just add references, but when I reread this I realized this section needs to be restructured and made more formalized.  It will make it more readable.  Different doctrines of the New Church - which are extensive - can then be fleshed out separately.  Its an excellent article, but the original list of bullet points was too long.  Ive added headings according to the bullet points, but I am not dead set on these.  This is much more work than I thought - my apologies, I did not mean to start making drastic changes but I think its necessary to fix this. Doug Webber (talk) 03:25, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the Doctrine section should have its own article according to the pattern of all other faith description articles, this article retaining a general definition, history, spread and other mundane matters, while a New Church theology gets the doctrinal and theological content. Rursus dixit. (mbork3!) 13:23, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Subdividing the Doctrine Section

message: Your Biblical references attributed to Paul, Joe Smith, and Swedenborg are incorrect, at least in the "Influence" section.  My first suggestion is to state which version of the Bible you are using.  Second, 1 Corinthians 15:40-42 does not mention any "third heaven," as you stated.  Third, the only mention of a "third heaven" from Paul (and anywhere else in the Bible) is in 2 Corinthians 12:2, but that is not supportive of your claims that "Both Swedenborg and Joseph Smith refer to the highest heaven as 'celestial,' in concert with the usage of the apostle Paul when he described a visit to the 'third heaven.'"  The only three-level reference to be gleened from 1 Corinthians 15:40-42 might be "The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another, and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor."  But this is wholly inconsistent with your claims relating to Paul, Joe Smith, and Swedenborg relating to any "third heaven."  I would request that you correct this section, as I am not sure what message you are purporting that I might be able to edit myself.  Thank you. Snootcher (talk) 09:39, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  The "Influence" Section 

message: Secondary sources don't call it The New Church, and although "New Church" was what followers and founders called it back in the day, nowadays you can find them @  www.swedenborg.org , and sfswedenborgian.org.  The present title is unhelpful and confusing.E.M.Gregory (talk) 16:15, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: *Although some of the churches use "New Church"  there is also Swedenborgian Church of North America, a theology faculty called Swedenborgian House of Studies, some of the branches do use "New" Lord's New Church Which Is Nova Hierosolyma, une uses a different name altogether General Church of the New Jerusalem  But they pray according to the Swedenborg Rite and our template and our category are both called  called Swedenborgianism.  For good reason.  That's what everyone called it  (COI disclosure: I regularly walk past a small Swedenborgian church at the edge of campus.  I don't know anyone who belongs to it.  I rarely see anyone going in.  But it is a very pretty gothic building and I enjoy walking past, particularly when snow is falling on the lawn.)E.M.Gregory (talk) 16:26, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Propose moving page to [[Swedenborgian]]

message: Just saw this brand new article this morning and wanted to share in case it might be of any use. 
* https://www.curbed.com/2022/08/nyc-new-church-new-jerusalem-35th-street-swedenborgian-records-trash.html 
47.176.71.114 (talk) 10:27, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible new source for this subject. 

message: As of December 5th, I have made some significant edits to this page to make it more comprehensible to the average reader. These are;  
A. Adjusting the order of sections and consolidating a couple (including "influence' and 'Notable individuals influenced by Swedenborg' (paraphrased))
B. Creating a single paragraph introduction presenting the core narrative of Swedenborg's work
C. Adding an introduction to the section on Free Will and Salvation, and sub-headings to separate ideas within the section 
D. Summarizing the Cycle of Churches narrative before discussing the Coming of Christ in the above section, without making the 'Eschatology' section at all redundant.  
D. Overall, maintaining the core points and paragraphs of the article before these edits were made, while simultaneously simplifying the language and maintaining sectarian terminology and rhetoric when adequately defined.
Less significant edits include adding Transcendentalism to the 'Influences' page.
Smoothing out the improved article and completing citation of additional information will take place over the following days.  TheLibertyBoi (talk) 09:22, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Early December 2023 Edits