Talk:National Personnel Records Center fire

message: This page needs references of sources. Especially for the list conspiracy theories. If no sources are available, they should be removed Armycaptain 18:15, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The external link at the bottom of the page is the primary link to the source for the article.  Conspiracy theories (as far as I know) are based on various memos and letters publshed from NPRC.  A "citation needed" tag would probably be better than removing the entire section. -Husnock 18:36, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources

message: OK, my  tag was removed, so I'm bringing this up here. Our article seems to claim that the NPRC claims that the Kennedy pamphlet was a "main origin" of the conspiracy theory. Somehow, I doubt that (either that it WAS the main origin, or that a federal agency said a Senator's pamphlet was the main origin). If Kennedy's office "did not outright say" that the fire was a fabrication, how can it be the main origin of the conspiracy theory? This sounds like a huge dollop of reading between the lines, and in fact verges on libel. The section should be carefully rewritten to say only what sources actually say. --Dhartung | Talk 02:40, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've confirmed directly with NPRC, specifically one of their archvists as well as one of their records historians, that veteran case workers in Kennedy's office put out to veterans that the fire didnt happen.  I've also spoken to one case worker in Kennedy's office who told me that directly.  NPRC's address is 9700 Page Avenue; St. Louis, MO 63132 if this needs to be verified and the general information number is 314-801-0800.  A rewording probably is in order, but there is no doubt that there are people out there, espeically the "VSO"s (Veteran Service Officers) who are telling people the fire didnt happen becuase they don't like it when records requests are answered incompletely.  In 15 years dealing with this subject, I've heard a wide variety of terms such as the "fire lie", the "fire excuse" as well just general cracks that NPRC is lazy and doesnt want to answer letters so they made up a story about a fire.  It is a controversial topic, but it is true. -OberRanks (talk) 11:59, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

text: Added thought: this line "in fact verges on libel" might be seen as violating WP:NLT.  I think that might need to be removed.  I don't see it that way, but others might. -OberRanks (talk) 12:06, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't say I was going to sue. I didn't make any threat at all. The threat of damage to the project does exist, however, and I think it's best to keep this out of the article until it can be sourced in a more concrete way. Our having a well-sourced article about the fire is really the best way to combat any misinformation about it (which is likely innocent, as the majority of a Senator's staff won't even have been born when it happened, and if they spend their days trying to get information out of federal agencies may well develop a dim view of their responsiveness).--Dhartung | Talk 12:00, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

text: Don't worry, there was never any indication that you were making a legal threat, only that the way some people are on this site, if you say you drove by a courthouse on the way to work they scream legal threat.  I just didnt want anyone to give you a hard time.  Very good poinbts you made, and the section has been removed.  For further info on the 1973 fire, check out this thread: http://www.omsa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2314  I've found that the person who runs it gives very good information. -OberRanks (talk) 13:33, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kennedy pamphlet 

message: I moved it here for further working-on.  I can't find a book that says these things, only e-mails and phone conversations (although those were direct with regards to what was being conveyed).  Anyway, moved here since a good hard core source can't be found. -OberRanks (talk) 12:24, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section Moved 

message: What I've always found difficult to believe is that this fire could have destroyed 100% of the records of any military personnel. Almost everything was done in multiple copies, either individually or with multi-part forms or carbon paper. The various copies would be sent 'hither and yon' to various departments for processing and storage. To collect all copies of an individual's records into that single location would've been a difficult operation, especially when it would've been done by mail, phone calls and possibly telegrams to send out the orders and requests to collect and send the records to St. Louis. My father was drafted into the US Army in 1961 and was discharged from the Reserves in 1963. He's been unable to obtain the last six months of his military records.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bizzybody (talk • contribs) 02:03, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There are copies of pay records and veterans affairs record but the military of the 1950s and 1940s didnt duplicate military service records.  It was indeed stored in a single location and when NPRC caught on fire the records went up in smoke.  As far as your father, a reservist from 1961 would not have been effective.  What might have happened was that the enlistment date was actually 1959 which would make the initial reserve training within the fire years.  Or that the veteran was in the National Guard and not the reserves, since at that time the two were very separate and the state held the NG records. -OberRanks (talk) 03:02, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: He was drafted, didn't enlist because his three older brothers enlisted and he figured there was no way he'd be drafted because he worked on the family farm and his father had a bad heart. His father had one of the first artificial heart valve implants but the suddenly normal blood pressure popped a vessel in his brain and he died, so my father got a hardship discharge. Bizzybody (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 07:38, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Where else were records stored?

message: This was removed from the article:
* The Church of Scientology started the fire in an attempt to destroy embarrassing records relating to L. Ron Hubbard's World War II service. The basis of this conspiracy theory seems to stem from the later incidents that occurred during Operation Snow White, and from the coincidence that certain records were only destroyed alphabetically from "Hubbard, James E" (although Hubbard had served in the Navy, not the Air Force).
70.20.160.41 (talk) 15:18, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scientology 

message: Just to clarify this point - the physical building which stood at 9700 Page Avenue (and caught on fire in 1973) was the Military Personnel Records Center.  The term "National Personnel Records Center" is an administrative name for the combined facilities of the Military Personnel Records Center, the Civilian Personnel Records Center, and (more recently), the National Archives at St. Louis which is a regional office of the National archives research services.  The office code for the military personnel building was "NPRC-MPR" before simply now being known as "MPRC".  The term NPRC and MPRC are frequently interchanged, especially by people unfamiliar with how the facilities are managed.  Thus, the fire in fact took place at the MPRC - Military Personnel Records Center (which also has its own article here on Wikipedia). -O.R.Comms 13:24, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: MPRC versus NPRC