Talk:Cherokee society/Archive 1

message: I have deleted former postings on this talk page because I'm starting over. I'm asking as nicely as possible to discuss changes to Cherokee Society with me before you jump in and change anything.  Please tell me what you'll be changing, why, and what positive advantages the article will have.  I've decided to stay on and please do not add the former postings on the this talk page back.  I'll only keep deleting them because I desire the discussion page to start fresh and new. --Bumpusmills1 20:19, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You need to stop Bumpus, BWD is correct. You do not own the article and do not have veto power over changes that are made. Staxringold 17:04, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Changes 

message: This user has opening admitted knowing "zero" about Native American anything.  So why is he so set on editing an article he knows "zero" about?  I'd suggest he leave the article alone.  He is gettin' a might to big for his breeches.  --Bumpusmills1 00:22, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You clearly don't understand how Wikipedia works. Knowing about the topic only matters if you are editing substantive pieces of the article. Scm, on the other hand, was conforming with Wikipedia style conventions which can be done by any user to any article, regardless of content. Look at Xanadu House or Dinosaur (the most recent Featured Articles) and you will see that you have the coat far too big. Staxringold 16:59, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scm83x 

message: :Get your lil' backside away from here. --Bumpusmills1 01:55, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Go 

message: I am an admin with experience in Native American issues. I was asked to look into the discussions referred to on this talk page, especially about the articles Cherokee society and Native American spirituality. First off, it appears that the Cherokee society article has some needed information which Wikipedia has been missing (and I'm glad to see it). However, the article needs to conform to Wikipedia styles, which means, among other things, using a NPOV writing style (meaning that the sentence in the lead which says "Hopefully through the efforts of this article some will find their way to the "Old Ways" of Cherokee Society." need to be reworked). The photo of the primary author of the article should also be removed b/c Wikipedia does not allow posting of vanity material. As for Native American spirituality, there is no reason that article should redirect to Cherokee Spirituality and Culture, which then redirects to Cherokee society. I'd suggest editing Native American spirituality separately from the Cherokee article. As a side note, though, I should mention that Native American spirituality sounds like the sort of New Age fluff white people would write about Native Americans. After all, I don't see any articles on Wikipedia about "Caucasion spirituality" or "African American spirituality." Finally, I hope everyone here will work toward achieving consensus on the article. Anyway, hope some of this helps.  Best,--Alabamaboy 01:59, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Outside view on situation 

message: I want to repeat that the info on Cherokee Society here is a very good start to the article. I'd definately keep this article separate from whatever Native American spirituality turns out to be. This society article is greatly needed at Wikipedia. Best,--Alabamaboy 02:15, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not a problem. Anything I can do to help, just let me know. I'm about to retire for the night but I'll check in tomorrow and see if there is anything I can do. I can also help you clean up the article to conform to Wikipedia standards, if you want. I left info on your talk page about this. Just so you know, though, I have never seen a Wikipedia article with a statement of purpose so I'd avoid putting that in (although, I suppose, the statement could go on the article's talk page). I'd just keep going with the info you have. Best,--Alabamaboy 02:32, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

text: One thing you'll need to work on in this article is the information in the Cultural values and traditional views section of the article. At this time, this section talks about general Native American views on these matters. Since this is an article about Cherokee society, you will need to focus the sections there on family, leadership, and so on what the Cherokee believe on these subjects. For example, I'm not sure the Traditional use of masks has anything on whether Cherokee used masks. Anyway, I hope this helps. If you have any questions or concerns about what I've done, drop a line. I also look forward to reading more info as you add it to this article. Best,--Alabamaboy 17:14, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Very good information 

message: Due to vandalism of the extreme nature on my personal userpage, I have protected this page, as well as my own against such vandal attacks.  --Bumpusmills1 15:29, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed the vandalism template b/c it doesn't protect the page (only an admin can do that). In addition, this article hasn't been vandalized as of yet and protection can only be given if vandalism is frequently occuring. I'd also suggest removing the warning link from your talk page and this article. The warning sounds too antagonistic and will probably encourage people to vandalize instead of stopping them. Otherwise, best of luck with the edits in the article.--Alabamaboy 16:02, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: Bumpus, I have posted a request for mediation due to your posting a protection template without admin powers or any vandalism to the article itself, completely ignoring discussion over pieces of an article (substituting your own thoughts for a consensus), and calling BWD a "buttinski" who was stirring up trouble when he claimed you showed too much ownership of the article. Thank you. Staxringold 17:17, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd request that you remove this RfM. Bumpusmills1 is a new user who is still learning how Wikipedia works. Since yesterday I have been working with him to both Wikify his edits and to show him how to conform to Wikipedia standards. So far, he has worked toward every suggestion I've made and thank me for the help, which indicates a willingness to learn how Wikipedia works and to fit within our system. Yes, he still has much to learn but I am optimistic that he will learn. Let's not bite the newcomer by starting something like this. Best, --Alabamaboy 17:36, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, request moved, but he had a pretty turbulent start with Wikipedia. Staxringold 18:16, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

text: All I desire is a chance.  All of this in new to me, naturally, and I feel that I've been nit-picked excessively. As for the name I called BWD go to All In The Family and find Archie-isms.  This is where I learned that term, well, actually I learned many Archisms as a kid watching the show religiously every week.  It was not meant to be mean spirited, as you must think.  It was meant to tell him I thought he was not minding his own business, nothing more and nothing less.  We all have our on vocabularies and slang terminologies.  This is the American way.  Get a bunch of Southern boys together talking and have a bunch of New England boys try to comprehend what they're saying.  They get a bit lost because the slang terminology is so very different and as Archie Bunker would say; "ipso fatso". --Bumpusmills1 18:36, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Request for mediation