Talk:Hassan bin Attash

message: Captured in the same raid as Shawki Awad Balzuhair? Sherurcij (Because you can't fight terror by spreading fear)  23:20, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: I have reverted the prior change back to the neutral position it achieved previously. Thank you.--Yachtsman1 (talk) 23:03, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Please show other contributors the courtesy of offering explanations of what triggers your neutrality concerns. Geo Swan (talk) 01:04, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That has been explained thoroughly previously. Should you like to provide a link for readers to see, please feel free to do so. Thank you.--Yachtsman1 (talk) 01:27, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: IMO this excision requires an explanation. Geo Swan (talk) 14:59, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Recent Edit

message: In the last month or so a relatively new contributor has been methodically going through the articles on Guantanamo captives. While they have corrected some typos, and added some relevant categories, they have, I am sorry to say, added some very questionable tags to a great many of these articles, with little to no meaningful attempt to explain their actions. This article being a case in point. The added 
 to this article, which, when instantiated, expand to:
:
:This article may need to be rewritten entirely to comply with Wikipedia's quality standards. You can help. The discussion page may contain suggestions. (August 2009)
:This biographical article needs additional citations for verification. Please help by adding reliable sources. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately, especially if potentially libelous or harmful. (August 2009)
It seems to me that, like with the other other articles this contributor has processes, they applied these tags without really reading the article, and without reading the article's references.
I have written to this contributor, and explained to them that, in my opinion, the Summary of Evidence (CSRT), and Summary of Evidence (ARB) memos ARE secondary sources, not primary sources. They were drafted by authors who were charged to read, assimilate, analyze and summarize reports from at least half a dozen agencies, both civilian and military, and sometimes, as in Hassan bin Attach's case, from foreign intelligence agencies as well. I have explained to this contributor that this makes these sources the canonical example of secondary sources.
I have told this contributor my concerns that they have a fundamental misunderstanding of the policy on verifiability. It is not our role to determine whether what our sources assert are "true", when those sources are verifiable and authoritative.
In addition to these satisfactory OARDEC references this particular article references an article
Farah Stockman wrote for the Boston Globe:
:
:But Hassan bin Attash, a Yemeni who was 17 at the time of his arrest, reported that he was hung upside down, beaten on the soles of his feet, and threatened with electric shocks after he was sent to Jordan by US officials.
:He says that he told them whatever they wanted to hear," said his attorney, Robert Knowles. He just wanted it to stop."
:Knowles said Attash was arrested in Pakistan in September 2002, and spent four days in a US-run detention center in Afghanistan before being sent to Jordan for 16 months. In January 2004, he was transferred back to a US prison in Afghanistan. In September 2004, he was sent to Guantanamo Bay.
:* </ref>
Cageprisoners, mirrors a Reprieve report drafted by Clive Stafford Smith, who wrote:
:
:He is now 20 but was 17 when he was seized. In 2002, his house was raided in Pakistan. After 4 days in a Karachi prison he was taken to the ‘Prison of Darkness’ in Kabul. He was held and tortured there until September 19, 2002. He was then rendered to Jordan with another prisoner called Abu Otaibi Hadarami, where he spent 3 months of torture 12 hours a day. Ultimately, he signed whatever they asked of him. On January 8, 2004, he was taken back to the Prison of Darkness in Kabul, then to Bagram, and then Guantanamo. One of his brothers was in Bagram, but he has disappeared. His father, Mohammed, is 70 years old and has been imprisoned in Saudi allegedly under U.S. orders. (Source of data: unclassified report by Omar Deghayes)
:*</ref>
I suggest that the application of tags that assert an article requires more references should only be done after the tag applier has actually read the article, and checked its existing references. Geo Swan (talk) 10:22, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I feel that the  tag is appropriate to many of the Guantanamo biographies, since we list only what the government has said about them. It is a reputable source, so  isn't necessary as the USgovtPOV tag says the same thing but with more specific details about the complaint. I also feel that the  is inexplicable without specific information on the talk page about how the user would like to see the article "rewritten" - does it need to use the third-person? does it need to remove bare urls? does it need to be written in the past tense? It is not readily apparent, even upon study, why he feels these articles need to be "rewritten", so I would discourage its use. I also feel the user has fundamentally misunderstood the use of  which he has also added to numerous articles; as it is meant for articles which lack in-line citations, section headers and wikilinking - and I haven't yet seen a single article lacking that among the ones to which he added the template. In summary, I feel that  is appropriate for all Guantanamo biographies which do not have either a newspaper or literary source, but all other templates are either overkill, unnecessary or simply spamming. Sherurcij (speaker for the dead)  18:38, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: responsible use of tags...

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 9 external links on Hassan bin Attash. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive http://www.webcitation.org/query?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cageprisoners.com%2Farticles.php%3Fid%3D7880&date=2009-08-06 to http://www.cageprisoners.com/articles.php?id=7880
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070804021930/http://www.reprieve.org.uk/press_germanyusedforrendition_06_10_06.htm to http://www.reprieve.org.uk/press_germanyusedforrendition_06_10_06.htm
*Corrected formatting/usage for https://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-10-11-guantanamo-combatants_N.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070930184542/http://cageprisoners.com/articles.php?aid=3838 to http://cageprisoners.com/articles.php?aid=3838
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1773140.stm
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/research/files/reports/2008/12/16%20detainees%20wittes/1216_detainees_wittes.pdf
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/district-of-columbia/dcdce/1:2008mc00442/131990/152/0.pdf
*Corrected formatting/usage for https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/21/AR2010012104936.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/28/AR2010052803873.html
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thread_title:  External links modified