Talk:History of association football

message: How can they be the oldest club in continetal Europe if Copenhagen is on an island, thus not part of continental Europe?   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.202.29.118 (talk) 04:35, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Kjøbenhavns Boldklub

message: Can I just say, the resource I am using for this page is very heavily focussed on the history of english football, fortunately, for the older parts, this is the only history, however In the edits I make in relation to more recent times, this may be reflected, so just edit it to be more neutral if you feel it is too heavily foccused on one aspect. Sorry if this causes any problems. Philc T+C 19:45, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Cool cheers, I think I know where I can find some information of how football reached brazil, I think it was originally an immgrant who took the first football across or something. And then a tour by Corinthians set off a craze, including a club set up with the same name, well I'll check anyway, and put it in if I find it. I am also intending to add some stuff on the transition of football into proffesionalism, and the maximum wage etc. Is there anything else we should include? Philc T+C 14:29, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Direct quotes should be cited, along with anything contentious or anything that might be disputed. For example, the phrases "In 1845, three boys at Rugby school were tasked with codifying the rules then being used at the school. These were the first set of written rules (or code) for any form of football." and "Football was introduced in the Danish club Kjøbenhavns Boldklub in 1879 which makes the club the first football club on Continental Europe" ought to be referenced. Oldelpaso 18:22, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I got the thing about the three boys making the first ever code of any football game off of Football#English public schools, can we cite other wikipedia articles? as its not cited there either. So what happens in this case? Philc T+C 19:09, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Citing other Wikipedia articles is generally frowned upon, so its something to avoid. If a verifiable source is not available, then in theory a statement should not be included. In practice, it happens a lot, and it is only once articles become mature enough to be peer reviewed that this sort of thing gets ironed out. Oldelpaso 20:54, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

text: I've put it in under See Also. Didn't see any other candidiates in :Category:History of football (soccer) though. European Cup and Champions League history maybe? Oldelpaso 21:04, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

text: A section about the commercialisation of football would be useful in showing how the game has changed. I think the first sponsorship was Adidas supplying the "official ball" for the 1970 World Cup, but I don't have a source for that. Oldelpaso 19:16, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: discussion

message: From looking at the article I do feel like to be properly done it needs a lot of citations. I suggest going through it and adding the citationneeded tag (with the curly brackets round it) to points where citations should be put in. Any comments? - Master Of Ninja 21:32, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not so sure, all the qoutes and debatable statements have been cited that I've noticed, we don't need to cite things that are fact. Philc T+C 15:26, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There's still plenty of things which could do with a citation. Just taking the first section as an example, "Association Football as we know it today is most likely to have originated from the Roman game Harpustum" and the bit about Calcio Fiorentino would both benefit from citations. Oldelpaso 16:53, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeh, I just noticed that one too, but that one aside, Isn't the article generally in pretty good shape from this perspective. p.s. I have a source for that one, I'll find it later Philc T+C 17:32, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

text: It depends what you mean by 'fact'. Although a lot of the statements in the article are taken as fact, the problem is that wikipedia articles tend to spread widely through the internet, so any information in it tends to become fact. For example I was looking at the section of the first international between scotland and england. I would have thought this was in Glasgow in 1872. The article states (without dates mind) that internationals of some kind were played a few years before that. A reference (from a newspaper of that time?) would be nice. I'm sure there are other examples in the article - Master Of Ninja 07:35, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was using a book, which was called the history of football, it seems a pretty definative history of the game, mostly focusing on england though. If it only says that there have been previous internationals, but does not name any, can I still cite the source as that book? Also, I can't see where it says the were internationals prior to the England Scotland match. Philc T+C 11:15, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: About that book, could you list some more details about it, like the author? I've tried to search for it, but I can only find a DVD by the name of "History of Football" from Green Umbrella. Poulsen 12:06, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

text: The internationals that I was going on about was the Scotland v England before the one in Glasgow. The one in Glasgow tends to be recognised by all the national authoroties as the first international. Could it be the ones that you reference may be organised but not sanctioned by the national authorities of the country, so that the official one is the one in Glasgow? Also for the book could you post an ISBN number so that we can easily search for it in the catologues? - Master Of Ninja 19:01, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The book doesnt have an ISBN strangely... all it says next to the bar code is M 4083 313 S, it doesnt say much about the book or where it came from inside. It says written by Michael Heatley, with values assistance from Graham Betts, Chris Mason and Dennis Turner. hope this helps. it is for sale here  under two different publishers  . I can't find it on any very good sites. But ISBNs are given on the links I gave. Same book name and same author, I suppose it safe to assume its the same book, though you may correct me.Philc T+C 20:22, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Perfect, the links had an ISBN that COPAC found instantly. Poulsen 21:12, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Argh, this continues to confuse me, the link you gave has two books, one with foreword by alan green, and one published by green umbrella, but mine is both of those. Philc T+C 17:24, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I cited a source regarding the England Scotland international thing, though I'm not sure if it covers the part that your concerned about. So just say if your still worried about it. Philc T+C 20:26, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I am going to remove the  from the sentence stating that the game is called soccer in some parts of the world. If not common knowledge, the statement is eminently verifiable. I cite Template:Fact#When_not_to_use_this_template. 67.188.40.34 (talk) 10:10, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations needed? 

message: Hello my friends. The first half of the article is quite good, shaping up nicely. But the second half still needs a lot of work. I think FIFA and its creation needs its own paragraph. The "FIFA Men's World Cup" section is quite bad. It erroneously states that "By 1950 however, European teams took interest..." when the world cups of 1934 and 1938 were held in Europe and were both won by Italy with many other European nations participating. Another mistake is where it says "From this, other championships emerged...South America's Copa América" when the Copa America was actually first held in 1916, long before the first World Cup. 
I also think we need to mention the history of the tactics and dynamics of the game itself, e.g. how football formations have evolved (the WM formation, 4-4-2 etc), catenaccio, use of attacking full backs, Dutch 'total football', etc. This is rather technical and some of these topics already have articles of their own but I feel we must at least have a brief summary of them here and provide links to the main articles. That is all for now, good work my friends!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Peoman (talk • contribs) 13:52, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: The second half

message: I've culled much of the first part of this article, so we get to th meat quicker. Jooler 12:08, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You just deleted it? Philc TECI 12:37, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Sorry Jooler, I didn't see this or your message on my talk page before now. Someone, I think it was user:86.142.131.220, added a whole lot of stuff about British public school games, which gave a very distorted and misleading impression of those games. I decided it was better to (1) have some details of older antecedent "kicking games", by way of balance, while (2) emphasising that the code started in 1863 and (3) prefacing the "Older games" section with links to  Football, Mediæval football and British public school football games. Otherwise, it seems to me, new editors will continue to introduce totally irrelevant material which duplicates Football and tends to appropriate the whole, pre-1863 history for soccer. What do you think? Happy new year. Grant65 | Talk 06:34, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Cull

message: I suggest a picture of a pattern of a football. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.97.16.187 (talk) 03:47, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Football?

message: I like your soccer page but what if someone made bad changes on it. I have recently discovered that someone has been putting in corrupt information.Oops4040 15:12, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Phil 

message: There was a disproportionate emphasis in the content on this page regarding football in the US. The US section was larger than that that of Europe and the same size as that of South America. Its akin to the history of Basketball page having half its content about the sport in Belgium. Jooler 15:15, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of US section 

message: *I took this out of the article, perhaps someone can check its accuracy and find a suitable place for it if it is verifiable. 
"Neil Edward Johnson was the first american ever to be in a world cup match. He represented the nation of Sweeden and later went on to play for the Czech Republic. He proudly wore number 33 in honor of the 33 teamates that he saved their lives in one way or another. He is a true american hero and soon will be inducted into the world cup hall of fame having scored the most goals, that were head shots, in world cup history(6). Neil Edward Johnson won the hearts of many europeans and a great part of the world of the mid 1900's." King of the North East (T/C) 10:51, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed info 

message: I think this article should contain more debunking the working class origin myth of soccer. The game was developed by the upper and middle class, private school and elite English universities. The idea that it's always been played by horny handed sons of toil is a Romantic myth and wishful thinking. --79.68.71.162 (talk) 20:36, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Feel free to do so, as long as you come up with references to back up your claim. There is plenty of evidence that games of football were played in lower-class rural communities for centuries before the codified rules were introduced by the upper class players. --VinceBowdren (talk) 12:01, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Working class foundation myth 

message: :Image:FIFAstatutes.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 20:02, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:FIFAstatutes.jpg

message: Why is there so much info about the states in this article. It is not exactly the most important football country in the world, is it? It should be better balanced. Migdejong (talk) 16:08, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: USA

message: The article says that the oldest team is St.Gallen, but that is NOT TRUE. TSV 1860 München was founded in 1860, at the same time than the other swiss team that is now defunct. Doesn't this make TSV München the oldest team in continental Europe? 71.198.35.250 (talk) 17:33, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Oldest team in Continental Europe?

message: Sepp Blatter just said Association Football began in China????? How so? Comes.amanuensis (talk) 15:35, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This is only a history of Association Football. A proper history of Football (Soccer) on Wikipedia, should show that it originated in China 2,000 years before it appeared in the West. --96.227.159.200 (talk) 18:19, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  China? 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on History of association football. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081019231021/http://www.stokecityfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/History/0%2C%2C10310~401090%2C00.html to http://www.stokecityfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/History/0%2C%2C10310~401090%2C00.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.thefa.com/Womens/Reference-FAQ/Postings/2003/11/Background%20and%20Brief%20History.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160625095029/http://eoswetenschap.eu/artikel/belgische-voetbalgeschiedenis-begon-gent to http://eoswetenschap.eu/artikel/belgische-voetbalgeschiedenis-begon-gent
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 09:50, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on History of association football. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100912000300/http://www.remuseum.org.uk/articles/rem_article_facup.htm to http://www.remuseum.org.uk/articles/rem_article_facup.htm
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 01:16, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: the FA cup is very sexist because it is only for men to participate. Each tournament should be represented with both male and female for example the FIFA world cup. But even the world cup is sexist because mens teams win 576$ compared to what women win is only 15$.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.240.251.86 (talk) 01:42, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: That is your opinion. - SummerPhDv2.0 01:52, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sexist? 

message: The Article, as it is currently written, misrepresents the history of Association football as a sport. By stating that "The modern game of association football originates from cuju, an ancient Chinese football game, as recognized by FIFA." it is strongly implied (I'd even argue outright stated) that Association Football is directly descended from Cuju. This is not evidenced. Cuju is recognized as the oldest historically recorded game which would be recognizably football in the modern sense. However, Cuju and Association Football are examples of convergent evolution. A better statement would be that games similar to Association Football can be found as far back as Cuju from China circa 200 BCE. This makes it clear that the history of games such as association football is both global and chronologically long, but does not inaccurately imply that Association Football was invented in China, when it was clearly invented in Britain and refined through the globalization of the sport. 
PiraticalGhost (talk) 05:12, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, I've clarified the lede to reflect this. Fitnr 02:36, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cuju as the roots of Association Football