Talk:Fansub/Archive 1

message: "Although this inherently reduces the accuracy of the translation because of the fact it has gone through two translations."
Well, I'm not sure if I would say that. Some of the chinese subs are very accurate themselves as when translating, the meaning is kept intact, which is what I believe to be an important part of translation (You simply cannot translate a language word for word).
I believe that it would be unfair to say that the accuracy of the translation would be reduced if a team uses chinese subs.
Snowstormz 14:33, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In some cases im sure that the chinese translations are fairly accurate but its still one more filter.  Every time something gets translated it dosen't matter how good the translator is, you going to lose something, even if it something miniscule in the better translations.  Same theory on computers, if you move a file from one computer to another, it will probalbly be fine, if you move it 3 times it will still problay be fine, but if you keep jumping it around, its gonna get messed up.  Going from japanese to chinese to english is bound to create some errors, even its simply from the way the translators interpreted it.  More filters give more errors. Cerevox 19:13, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I agree with Cerevox.  It's the same with many things.  It's essentially a game of Telephone.  As you add more filters, the accuracy reduces.  That's why, in image editing, for example, you shouldn't resize the photo more than once.  Each stage you go through is a modification of a modification.  In fansubbing, a translation of a translation.  Each stage further deteriorates the quality.  I'm sure Chinese subs are just as wild in quality as English subs, and in some cases there may be little or no overall deterioration, but the fact remains that, in general, a Japanese > Chinese > English translation will be of lesser quality than a Japanese > English translation. AsunaNegi 16:23, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translating from Chinese subs "inferior"? 

message: Including the issue of international copyrights, I believe that there is a question on the legality of fansubs, but even moreso, on whether they do more good than harm.  Is it the creators, writers, of the anime and manga who are worried about their copywrited work, or is it the publishers, the company, who is worried about the loss in revenue.
There is talk that some of the creators do not mind fansubs because it allows distribution of their product and get the word out about their show.  Most fansubbing groups stop both the subbing and the distribution of anime when it is officially announced that the show has been licensed.  In addition, the companies have to know the websites that distribute the shows, and there is a chance that the websites give them invaluable marketing data that they would otherwise be unable to obtain.  Many of the websites, their trackers have a column that is an important statistic, total number of downloads.  Some shows have over 100,000 downloads, some have that many even within a week or two; which tells companies if their show has a chance, or a large chance, at success in the United States.  
So then, if fansubs are against the law, do they do more harm than good or do they do more good than harm?
The answer, I believe, lies within the website or fansubbing group and the person who downloads the show(s).
"Most fansubbing groups stop both the subbing and the distribution of anime when it is officially announced that the show has been licensed." Well this statement is not really correct since we today seem to have more groups that do "licensed" either till they get asked to stop or don't stop at all. Sometimes we see a group that gets asked to stop comply with the company but as the next episode airs a new group is born that is releasing with the same basic layout or style as the previous group meaning that as the main warez scene fansubbers also go underground when threatened by the companies. Also note that i quoted licensed because it should note that its been licensed in the US. --Sakaki- 19:46, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Groups that sub licensed work are not considered mainstream subbers, however. Note that the primary torrent sites such as Animesuki or Scarywater do not list any show that is licensed. Also, associating "warez" (which relates to software piracy and the programming of malicious programs) with "fansubs" is incorrect and POV (unless I'm misreading you). The "warez scene" has nothing to do with fansubs. Xuanwu 19:20, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  More good than harm? 

message: The lack of citations in the article is somewhat reasonable, as few credible media sources (to my knowledge) have published reports on any aspect of fansubbing.  However, the "cult" nature of the phenomenon is not a free license to editorialize in the article.  I'd be writing into next week if I were to exhaustively list the statements of questionable objectivity in the article; it should suffice to note little attempt has been made to support any of the statements in the Legal and ethical issues, Dynamics of fansubbing, Recent lawsuits, and Translation quality sections with evidence.  In addition, several phrases reveal obvious editorial bias or assumption:
:* "Not all fansubbers are guilty of hurting the anime industry."The wording implies that most are, when many other wording choices are available.
:* "However, it is the norm among anime fans (thanks to polling data) that if a fansub is downloaded and the show enjoyed, a fan will buy the DVD release."This is an uncited assumption using broad and ambiguous terms.
That "poll" wouldn't be accurate, even if the most credible source garnered the votes. Any avid supporter of fansubs is going to say "Sure, I buy the DVDs after downloading and watching the series."
:* "While there have been instances of negligent professional translations in the earlier days of anime's domestic release, stricter standards among the industry and extensive script checking by native Japanese speakers and formal review by original Japanese licensors have widely made such instances rare in recent times. Most fans agree that more recent domestic releases lack the translation issues that plagued earlier titles. However, the argument popped up again."Ignoring the nonsensical wording, a citation at least would be nice here, especially since the claim is dubious.  (Even Cowboy Bebop: Knockin' on Heaven's Door, a recent and high-profile feature film, received a very poor official sub.)
Also, banalities such as
:* "In the end, there is no clear ethical resolution on the matter. Whether fansubs are now beginning to hurt the market cannot be judged for certain, though their past role as advertisement cannot be questioned."
should be excised.  It is not the article's place to tell the reader, "You can't come to a conclusion or make a judgement in this matter."
Some of the text in the aforementioned sections is information that should be retained with proper citations, but most is opinion and fluff.--Clownboat 05:57, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: One citation that would help the article: a recent Yale Economic Review research article found that individuals who download movies are no less likely to buy movies than those who don't, owing to the fact that those who download are also those who like movies enough to spend money. This has a direct bearing on some of the arguments made in the article, since it supports the argument that people who DL fansubs are just as likely to buy anime merchandse as those who don't. The article does need some serious trimming and reorganization. It references the MFI example several paragraphs before the example is explained, for example. And quite a lot of redudnancy. Xuanwu 22:59, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's pretty good. Where'd you find the article? I'll keep my eyes open for fansub related stuff elsewhere and try to cite some stuff in the article if I can. -  20:51, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Biased views are still relevant, and can be included in articles if used in a sensitive manner. What I mean is: if someone does cite your work, it should be made clear that it is an author's opinion and not in any way the truth or bottom line. You've got to look at bias in order to argue both sides of a coin, ya know? - Phorque 08:41, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't disagree; however, if an author doesn't want a citation, I think it's reasonable to respect that wish, as long as the author isn't trying to cover up something he's embarrassed about, which isn't the case here. -Amatulic 18:20, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality and citations 

message: I'll put some in if/when I have time:
*The Anime Biz - Talks about Naruto fansubs + fansubs in general
*The Other Side of BitTorrent - More fansub related content
*NY times bittorrent and anime article
*Talking Anime Business Blues
*Fansubbing a Good Thing?
--  13:32, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Biased views are still relevant, and can be included in articles if used in a sensitive manner. What I mean is: if someone does cite your work, it should be made clear that it is an author's opinion and not in any way the truth or bottom line. You've got to look at bias in order to argue both sides of a coin, ya know? - Phorque 08:41, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't disagree; however, if an author doesn't want a citation, I think it's reasonable to respect that wish, as long as the author isn't trying to cover up something he's embarrassed about, which isn't the case here. -Amatulic 18:20, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Extra sources to read and cite from

message: I cleaned it up a bit. Still a lot more to do. Any suggestions? Xuanwu 21:35, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Newer version 

message: Why does this section exist?  Most of the information here is either completely redundant or a faulty argument in defense of fansubs.  How does dubbing detract the quality of a legitimate release if an accurately subtitled version is almost always provided on the DVD as well?  In fact, apart from issues surrounding 4Kids specifically, this page should not need to make any reference to the quality of dubbing.  It's a completely useless argument.  Jbetteridge 00:48, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other considerations 

message: Why does the word "dattebayo" redirect here? Dattebayo is a Japanese word with no direct translation, used in the anime/manga Naruto. Translated by Viz Media as "Believe it." Just wondering...
:The Dattebayo fansubbing group doesn't bother translating it, and the subtitles don't suffer. Dattebayo roughly means "what I said" (it does have a translatable meaning, actually).  Its usage is sort of like Foghorn Leghorn inserting "I say" into sentences before repeating a phrase, for example: "That's a joke... I say, that's a joke, son." Amatulic 17:56, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: DatteBayo [DB] is a popular fansubbing group on the internet here is their main site --Inoesomestuff 00:49, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Getting a letter from a lawyer isn't the same thing as being sued. Amatulic 17:56, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quick Questions 

message: I was just reading through the article and there were a few things that caught me:
*This has allowed fansubbing to transform from a slow and tedious task that generates a low quality preview of an attractive show to a cheap, easy, and quick way to create a high quality and high availability alternative to an only-slightly-better quality official DVD copy, although some groups release HD quality fansubs.</I>
I can hardly pick sense in this sentence, which is the first problem, but it also makes an uneeded comparison of quality between fansubs and official releases and states that the fansub is an alternative which would mean one or the other, when it's said that that isn't the ideal.
*In the end, there is no clear ethical resolution on the matter.
The article sholdn't tell people that there's no resolution, it should be put up to the reader to determine whether it's ethical or not.
*Many in favor of fansubbing argue that it offers a different product than that provided by the company that licensed it, offering a different product in content and translation from that of the official localization. If that holds true, then these viewers would not have purchased the localized version anyway and thus are not a loss in sales.
It seems to me that these people only prefer fansubbing because it's "a different product" so if there was only one product why wouldn't they buy an official release? Wouldn't this still be a loss in sales? The first sentence also repeats itself and seems to be using "weasel words" in "Many argue...". Who argues? Also to me this reason doesn't really make sense, they are both "different products" when compared to one another so why choose fansubs specifically? I'm not sure this is really a valid argument.
I'm not sure if I'm right in pointing this out so if anyone could comment it would be appreciated. HeartOfGold 19:58, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Keep the information, lose the preaching, that's what I would say. Well spotted. Shinobu 11:21, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  A few problems 

message: This is generally for my planned fandub, but I think it would fit in here. Is it legal? I know 4Kids distributed the season which should of contained it, so would it be legal to dub or sub them if they were never aired or put on American DVD or VHS?
I think by law, fansubs and fandubs are never legal. They just don't get prosecuted often.
Ivvan Cain 01:18, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  What about a banned episode of Pokémon? 

message: Does anyone want to write about the profound impact video sharing has/will have on fansubs? I somewhat want to do it, but wiki formatting freaks me out. (And I somewhat want to watch various fansubs.) Jchoi29 23:33, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Erm...has there been in impact? I really don't like youtube resolution of 320 x 240 so I don't watch anime on there...Ivvan Cain 01:44, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting enough, there was a poll on D-Addicts (live Asian TV drama fansubs forum), where 72-percent of its members would like for the fansub groups to have control over how people handle their fansubs, such as people posting on YouTube. Some of the fansubbers have already written to the uploaders, demanding that their fansubs be taken down. Quality of the video is definitely a huge issue. Also, the uploaders feel that uploading fansubs to YouTube will help promote fansubs, while others feel YouTube exposes these supposedly illegal fansubs to a much larger audience, which may down the road cause problems with various agencies. Until YouTube, fansubs have been considered semi-underground - especially live Asian TV dramas, and over-exposure has never been an issue. But now YouTube appears to be having an impact. So this YouTube issue it may be worth pursuing. Groink 03:02, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

text: yeah, youtube isn't a very good video hosting service...anyway, some fansubbing groups don't like their work posted on "youtube/other crappy flash site" Nasa0003 15:27, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  YouTube, etc. 

message: This entry does seem to go on and on.  Does it need to go into such minutia?   --Navstar 01:19, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. Although, at some points it seems to go off at a tangent; that is something that needs to be fixed. Shinobu 17:13, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Entry too long 

message: I think somebody should note the impact fansubs indirectly have on Adult Swim and it's counterparts. Their official forum is a seriously-taken source of information on what fans want to see. The recent adoptions of Bleach and Trinity Blood are both due to forum members' interest in the fan-subs of those shows. The Adult Swim staff regularly checks the forum's activity and takes note of popular anime that they've seen in fan-subs, but would like licensed for airing in north america. Right now, fans are urging them to air Blood+. -Biokinetica 17:07, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Impact on Adult Swim and vice versa 

message: This article is in dire need of cleanup. As is, it reads like an infodump based upon some fans' "experiences" with fansubs. The article needs to reference reliable sources for its information.
Also, the external links section could use a scrubbing. A lot of the links to "fansub community" sites are probably full of material that violates various copyright laws, which we shouldn't be linking to.
I echo the position taken above about the picture, and I'm going to tag it as replaceable fair use. Putting together some kind of picture with Wikipe-tan and some subtitles should be relatively trivial. --Slowking Man 18:13, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree it needs cleanup. The problem, I think, is that the history and issues surrounding fansubbing are "documented" primarily in the memories of those who lived through it all, and on discussion forums such as rec.arts.anime.misc, neither of which are citable. Sources of the kind Wikipedia recommends are sparse to nonexistent. =Axlq 18:24, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I've added a couple refs that a guy posted above: one from New York Times and another from Wired, both reliable sources. I've also removed some redundant lines. Redundancy is this article's biggest problem: it says the same thing over and over again. Sometime I'll just take the whole block and rearrange it into something more streamlined and organized. Xuanwu 23:34, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article needs a lot of cleanup 

message: A recent Anime Insider article mentioned fansubs and YouTube. Someone with the issue should insert it where appropriate to help verify some of the statements made here. Xuanwu 06:40, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Additional Reference 

message: Is it technically illegal for someone to watch a fansub on youtube? Since it isn't technically downloading, it might be some sort of loophole. I'm just wondering. Also, is it illegal to watch raws on Youtube? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by PKKnoHaseo-san (talk • contribs) 05:07, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know why you mentioned that the use of YouTube is not considered downloading. When data is entered into your computer and then cached onto your hard drive, or even just displayed on the computer screen in RAM, you are STILL downloading. Downloading is the process of moving or copying bits from one location to another. It doesn't matter what you do with the bits once it is received - it is still downloading. Regarding YouTube, the "end result" of a download is basically the same as if you had the downloaded content stored to disc or video tape. Therefore, the same laws concerning illegal recordings or archiving of copyrighted video also apply to a YouTube viewer. Even enjoying a copyright work without paying the licensee or copyright owner can be considered grounds for money collection. The ONLY difference is the burden of proof on the part of the plaintiff, assuming here that you're not retaining the copy of the YouTube download permanently. Groink 04:38, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Youtube legality question 

message: has anyone ever noticed that american studios can barely churn out the anime at the pace in which they were originally made even though they only have to change around the vocal track on the audio master (which i'm sure they have access to...) take this example:
naruto:
Original run October 3, 2002 – February 8, 2007
No. of episodes 220 
so we'll say about 1550 days (4 years + 90 days)
1550 days / 220 ep. = 7.045.. days/ep.
yielding a tiny bit more than 7 days between episode, so basically a week..
vary rarely do you see american studios exceeding that rate, or even keeping at pace with that (they have big breaks in their production cycles)  
i guess what i'm saying is american culture or what i see of it is somewhat impatient (movies do better than books despite less details and looser stories, american shows rarely have "running mysteries" and rarely ever go out of our way to make anything "epic" [i.e. filming 3 movies at once so they can be released in a quick sequence - in the case of lord of the rings]) and even when ou do see an example of an american epic it still lacks that cliff-hanger-esque quality that anime has, so what i'm saying is: do the slow, unambitious production schedules of american studios result in reduced sales and interest (and people turning to fansubs to see 'what happens next') because people get impatient waiting around for something that is technically already been revealed or resolved...? i can imagine children especially (to whom i have limited contact with) must be particularly susceptible to this "waining of interest" principle 
oh and a question for my own interest that someone in the fansub community would have to answer: is fansubber's only problem with fandubbers (re: fandub under amateur audio recordings) is because they aren't "in step with" the anime copyright holders or is it also territorial? -c 67.23.125.138 22:43, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  i'm not sure if its relevant but.... 

message: Who do you report fansubs to? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.160.239.46 (talk) 22:51, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably the correct place would be to the company who owns the English license for the series, or in the case of a Japan-only series the original producer, who would in turn have to decide if they cared enough to take legal action. Though they probably already know, since pretty much every anime series has fansubs now. (More to the point, why would you want to report them?) --tjstrf talk  23:07, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  How do you report them? 

message: In hopes of preempting an edit war, I'll start a discussion topic here. (Disputed content: )
I see no purpose to mentioning Death Note in that paragraph, as 2 of the 4 groups did cease distribution, no known legal action or other notable events surround Death Note's fansubbing, and it's generally not a useful example. It also seems a bit POV, given the whole parenthetical about Animanda trying to "confuse" people with "such reasonings". The second bullet was a non-sequiter, and I believe already discussed elsewhere in the article. --tjstrf talk  23:35, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Death Note thing 

message: I think this is of some significance when it comes to fansubs; Dattebayo, one of the largest (if not THE largest) fansub groups has donated several thousand dollars to Doctors Without Borders after a donation drive for new hardware for their tracker gave them about three times the money that they required. clicky --Ihmhi 15:46, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, and I really think we should start a separate article for Dattebayo, the fansubbing group. I've been checking on this for months, but no one has started on it. They are really popular especially for Naruto and Bleach fans. And it also looks like they're continually expanding on their production. As Ihmhi said, they are able to collect enough sum of money to cover upgrades to their server, and to donate some of them to Doctors Without Borders. Moonwalkerwiz 04:25, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There was one once, it was deleted, or to be more precise redirected to Naruto Uzumaki. You'll have trouble starting one, if for no other reason than that they are associated with the Homosexual Negroid Society of the States, which has a rather infamous history of vandalism and absurdly long deletion discussions on Wikipedia. --tjstrf talk 08:56, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dattebayo Donates 

message: I think it is not good, since these are two different (yet similar) things. --88.212.18.166 09:32, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The article that was at Fan translation has been moved to Fan translation of computer and video games to make room for an article that covers the issues shared between Fansub, Scanlation and the aforementioned article.  Editors, please come to Fan translation and build it up. --Javiskefka 08:53, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Again, the article at Fan translation ought to cover the topics that this article has in common with the others listed above.  If you look at Fansub, Scanlation, and Fan translation of computer and video games, they have a lot of overlap.Javiskefka 00:26, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

text: I think I do remember, however, seeing ROMs which were actually videos... The ZSNES Super Nintendo emulator has a 'program' in which you can record your game and play your recording. Although I might be partially wrong on that... --Strokend 23:29, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merging Fansubs with Fan translation 

message: Everyone on rizon knows them, and older users will remember when they were shut down by Funimation. Shouldn't this be referenced? --iriseyestalk 01:52, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Who? Gh5046 06:23, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Shinsen Subs Quite a name in the fansub community! LarryLaffer 18:51, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shinsen 

message: Fresh news. KyuuA4 21:50, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source Material 

message: Comments from Shinichi Watanabe regarding fansubbing and piracy at Oni-Con this past weekend.  Source posted here for review. KyuuA4 21:10, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shinichi Watanabe "Nabeshin" 

message: Japan Asks America to Stop Illegal Net Releases of Anime KyuuA4 21:50, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: ANN

message: In the page it states:
"In the promotional video announcing the American license of The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, Kadokawa Pictures USA and Bandai Entertainment specifically thanked fansub watchers and asked them to purchase the official release. This is the first instance of a Japanese company admitting and accepting, but not necessarily supporting the well-intended piracy among fans."
But I would like to point out that at the end of the Anime Battle Programmer Shirase they thanked the fan-sub community. As such, Haruhi was NOT the first instance of this.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.90.66.15 (talk) 03:58, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  BPS? 

message: This has surfaced on the AnimeSuki boards... Ranma9617 (talk) 02:25, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Comcast]] adding fuel to the fire?! 

message: The section called "Early fansubs" outlines some of the really old methods, but the section concerning new fansubs does not mention anything about the actual software used or get into very many details about the fansub process itself, but just mentions a lot about other topics like language specifics, playback capabilities and the difference between hard- and soft subs.
I think this section should first and foremost describe the actual modern fansub process step-by-step and preferably also list a typical selection of software used. This info is not very easy to locate on the internet, which makes this especially interesting to get into this article.
--I've added and expanded upon modern fansubbing experience as far as my knowledge can take me as a fansubber. Hope it has satisfied your request. Calanos (talk) 00:13, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Modern fansub techniques 

message: To the primary contributors of the article, here is a feature on fansubs published by Anime News Network. Hope that'll help clear out those missing citation tags... --Koveras ☭ 17:16, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Here is another source that would likely be of interest: Tokyo Anime Center posted a "stop fansubtitle" poster at the Tokyo International Anime Fair AnmaFinotera (talk) 18:51, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  ANN interview 

message: I've added a bit of a blunt, no beating around the bush lead-in to the rambling justification for fansubs in this section - which I am not going to try to tamper with, I think it seriously needs some independent editor-injected neutrality because it is quite definitely NOT.  The FACTS are that fansubs are illegal, no matter how you want to paint the ethics.  As long as every reader is aware of that up front, I think they can draw their own conclusions from the rest of the content of this section no matter how it reads.74.210.71.26 (talk) 03:09, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: And I have reverted all but the first sentence, because most of what you wrote constituted editorializing and unsourced claims. It's enough to say it's illegal; no need to "balance" a bias by inserting a different bias. The legal issue is simple; the ethical issues are what the section is really about, and it makes sense to give greater weight to the ethical positions underlying fansubbing in an article about fansubbing. =Axlq 06:20, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  re: Legal and ethical issues 

message: This is the sort of article that gives Wikipedia a bad name.  The basic information-what fansubs are, that they violate copyright law, that there are ethical issues that are hotly debated, are all accurate, if they can be picked out. But 90% of this article is simply people who defend or defame fansubs injecting fallacious arguments into what is supposed to be reference source.  This article should be cut down by at least 50%, and the ethics section reduced to no more than a few heavily notated and referenced paragraphs.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.186.219.83 (talk) 02:56, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  ethics and idiocy 

message: 1) This section lacks a unified direction. A much cleaner approach is needed, such as;Introduction: A, Body (facts and arguments): B, Conclusion (based on information, not opinion): C.The current document is incoherrent with some pargraphs seeming unrelated to the content preceeding and following.
2) The section is not entirely from a NPOV. It seems to lean toward bias against fansubbing. For example "Companies are working to undermine these dubious fan efforts, as with[...]" implied an inherent evil in fansubbing. This same statement would be more neutral if worded "Companies say these dubious[...]". Other examples:
Paragraph four is heavily opinionated and presents a one sided view of factual information. The introduction:"Longer productions like Naruto and InuYasha are also known to be distributed by fansubbers even after a license is announced. Even after the official licensing of Naruto that came around the release of episode 124, fansubbing groups still distributed the show." - This statement seems to stem from a non-NPOV, in that it introduces an individual sense of morality over collective consciousness. It should rather indicate for example, that contrary to standardised, unspoken trends (if indeed this is the case) there are shows such as [...] that continue to be fansubbed. The paragraph also passively avoids exploring possible reasons for this anomaly, if indeed it can be named as such. The result is, the reasons fansubbing seems to prevail remain largely up to the imagination. Such reasons can reasonably be estimated as, for example; users accustomed to fansubs in Japanese and unwilling to wait for the english dubbed versions aired to catch up to the fansubs, are...
"The distribution of InuYasha fansubs remains dubious however, due to the series completion in the domestic market, the entire series to be completely released on domestic DVD by late 2007." - This seems, as above, opinionated.
The examples are too many to list here. However I feel the section is heavily biased toward copyright protection and with subtlety, against fansubbing as a whole - the information in this article is about fansubbing as a social and entertainment phenomenon, its history and trends. The information contained herein is in need of neutrality.
Two potential new sections are:
: Countries where people download fansubs and Countries where people watch fansubs - one is not necessarily the other
: Fansubbing Groups
I appreciate being informed if I am out of line anywhere. Send me an email and I will gladly rectify any lack of clarity or inadherence to policy present.
Fileosopher (talk) 14:59, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Legal and ethical issues 

message: This caught my eye:
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/film/article5197025.ece 
They call it a mash-up, though it does not really correspond to our explanation of mash-up video. It looks more like fake fansubbing. I do not see any explanation of fake fansubbing here anymore (like the Russian version of Lord of the Rings). Was that sent off to another page?
This Untergang thing has been noticed by more sources (like this one in Dutch). I suppose this phenomenon could be talked about in the article on the film, but seeing that there are a lot of issues with this article, and it is obvious that this phenomeneon depends on fansubbing if only because they use the tools (particularly software) of the fan(s/d)ubbers. --Paul Pieniezny (talk) 16:01, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Mash-up" 

message: WP:BIAS should be carefully followed, I believe. Not only Japanese films get subtitled. Not at all! Especially in fansubs to other languages. The legal section is all about the reactions of Japanese companies. But what about American companies who object to their films being fansubbed into Spanish, for example? Some of this information should be added, regarding recent legal actions:
,  Esn (talk) 11:53, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I wouldn't mind beginning work on making it less Japanese centric if someone were willing to add information. Well if no one is, I'll probably get around to doing just that eventually anyway though. AngelFire3423 (talk) 12:44, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

text: Would someone mind explaining a different style of fansubbing, or is just the impact on the industry stuff that people are taking issue with? AngelFire3423 (talk) 05:26, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

text: This doesn't appear to be a reliable source. —Farix (t | c) 21:25, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a blog site and Sarah Perez doesn't appear to be an expert on fansubs.陣内Jinnai 23:18, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry about that, I hadn't really taken a good look at the source. AngelFire3423 (talk) 00:10, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article is too Japanese-centred