Talk:Elizabeth Warren

message: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Warren#Ancestry_and_Native_American_relations
'Throughout his presidency, former president Donald Trump mocked Warren for her assertions of Native American ancestry, and called her the slur "Pocahontas".'
I struggle to see how it can be justified to refer to that as a "slur". Maybe some left leaning publications do, but does a majority of publications? From what I've seen the answer is no.
'At a July 2018 Montana rally, he promised that if he debated Warren, he would pay $1 million to her favorite charity if she could prove her Native American ancestry via a DNA test. Warren released results of a DNA test in October 2018, then asked Trump to donate the money to the National Indigenous Women's Resource Center. Trump responded by denying that he had made the challenge. The DNA test found that Warren's ancestry is mostly European but "strongly support[ed] the existence of an unadmixed Native American ancestor", likely "in the range of 6 to 10 generations ago".'
Very misleading, Trump challenged her to take a DNA test that "shows you’re an Indian". Clearly having the same amount of Native DNA as any random white American doesn't satisfy that. Also the 'Trump responded by denying that he made the challenge' is also misleading as fact checked here - https://www.politifact.com/article/2018/oct/15/context-donald-trumps-1-million-offer-elizabeth-wa/
'The DNA test found that Warren's ancestry is mostly European but "strongly support[ed] the existence of an unadmixed Native American ancestor", likely "in the range of 6 to 10 generations ago".'
This is potentially misleading to viewers unless we note that this is the same amount of ancestry that a random white American is likely to have. 84.70.169.190 (talk) 07:56, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: That's not the amount of Native American ancestry the random white American is likely to have. The random white Amarican is likely to have 0% Native American ancestry. However, since some white Americans have a lot of Native American DNA, the average is 0.18%, compared with Warren (0.10% to 1.56%). TFD (talk) 10:30, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm, noting her % of Native DNA would be helpful to readers then. 84.70.169.190 (talk) 20:05, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see why. Warren said that her great-great-great-grandmother was part Native American, which is consistent with the DNA finding that she had a Native American ancestor 6 to 10 generations ago. This isn't a biology article. All that matters is the DNA test confirmed her claim. TFD (talk) 04:36, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Well no, what she actually said is that she is Native American, not that 200-300 years ago she had one Native American ancestor. "being Native American has been part of my story" and "1986, Warren identified her race as "American Indian" on a State Bar of Texas write-in form". The DNA test debunked her claim. I feel like telling the readers the DNA percentage is useful because it's hard to put into perspective what one ancestor 6-10 generations ago actually means, the DNA test does that. 84.70.169.190 (talk) 05:03, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: When you start by making obviously false statements such as the average American has Indian ancestry, you immediately destroy any credibility. In your latest comment, you leave out that before saying she was Native American, Warren said that her great-great-great-grandmother was part Native American, which was confirmed by the DNA evidence. Instead of getting misinformation from unreliable sourcess and wasting our time with a rant, research what reliable sources say, compare it to what this article says and then comment. TFD (talk) 01:31, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: That was when she was challenged in an interview on why she identified herself as American Indian in the 80s. And 6-10 generations ago is further than that. Can I get a response on my point about the bet with Trump? 84.70.169.190 (talk) 04:27, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you explain why you made the obviously false claim that "this is the same amount of ancestry that a random white American is likely to have." TFD (talk) 09:13, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I thought I read that when her results came out. Also isn't her results within that margin according to you? Average is 0.18%, compared with Warren's 0.10% to 1.56%. 84.70.169.190 (talk) 20:50, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: That's not how averages work. If Warren Buffet (net worth $101 billion) walks into a shelter with 100 homeless people, the average net worth of everyone in the homeless shelter is $1 billion. That doesn't mean that the random person in the shelter is likely to have a net worth of $1 billion. The vast majority of white Americans have no Native American ancestry. (See "The Genetic Ancestry of African Americans, Latinos, and European Americans across the United States", figure S7.) TFD (talk) 21:40, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: For a sample of hundreds of millions of people an average is fair enough, the point is her claim of being an American Indian was false then when challenged on it her new claim of being 1/32 Native was also false. Adding her % would be useful to the readers, and fixing the 1 million bet statement is needed. 84.70.169.190 (talk) 01:35, 18 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I have never understood why people like you, when you find an opponent who has misstated facts, instead of just calling them out on it, they misrepresent the facts in order to make them appear worse. The same thing happened with Benghazi. It only works with people who are already converted. Maybe they have difficulty in distinguishing facts from alternative facts. In any case, it doesn't belong in article discussions. TFD (talk) 03:11, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

text: Pocahontas was a person. Using it as a nickname has been recognized as a "slur" by the reliable sources:  – Muboshgu (talk) 20:14, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: And if I show you even more reliable sources that don't refer to it as a slur, what then? 84.70.169.190 (talk) 01:53, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: If I find reliable sources that pigs can fly, what then? It' a pointless question. TFD (talk) 04:39, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Well I'm wondering why we describe it as a slur if some reliable sources do and some don't. 84.70.169.190 (talk) 04:55, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: It's time to stop trolling. TFD (talk) 05:04, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

text: Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:02, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

text: I have edited the article to include Trump's specific words. I think the problem here is that his challenge was ambiguous. He does say what you said, but also 'And in the middle of the debate, when she proclaims that she is of Indian heritage because her mother said she has high cheekbones'. 'Of Indian heritage' is different to 'is Indian' so its not entirely clear what he had in mind. Her claim of course also changed over time, which doesn't help the matter. I suspect my phrasing won't be the final word here, but hopefully it can bring us a little closer. LastDodo (talk) 12:24, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bit misleading on her Native American controversy and Trump 

message: The subsection "Ancestry and Native American relations" in the larger public image section seems a little weird to me. You have 5 paragraphs on her ancestry controversy, and then the section ends with two sentences about Deb Haaland's praise and endorsement of her. I have no objection to the information itself, but it just seems weird to have it in a section that is overwhelmingly focused on the issue of her ancestry. Why not move the Haaland endorsement sentence to somewhere in the section on her presidential campaign instead? 2600:8800:4CE0:E400:7D60:3525:5CF3:500D (talk) 05:13, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should changes be made to the section labeled "Ancestry and Native American relations"? 

message: Warren started her second term in 2019, not 2017. 2600:4040:5C67:9000:D474:A782:52F1:9780 (talk) 00:14, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: Nowhere does it say that she started her second term in 2017. It does say that she announced in 2017 that she would run for a second term . – Muboshgu (talk) 00:31, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 6 September 2022 

message: While Warren has more recently walked back her claim to be fully Native American, the category is for those who claim "Native American Descent". This is different. After the many meetings during the campaigns she admitted she's not a citizen of a Nation (which Native Americans already knew), and has no tribal ties (ditto), but she still makes the distant ancestry claims - with the disputed DNA test and her statements about her ancestors. The cat exists precisely for people who aren't citizens, and who have no proven ancestry, but believe they have ancestry "somewhere back there" (in addition to those who make what others believe are simply false claims). She fits the category. - CorbieVreccan ☊ ☼ 20:58, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I self reverted. If we're only talking about partial descent, afaik she does still say that. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:32, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

text: that's like saying I must be old because I have some gray hair.  I was 18. 2600:1004:B14C:5298:34ED:EAA6:7AB7:4743 (talk) 03:40, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Native American" vs "Native American Descent" 

message: the Dr. Phil story, while not currently cited this way, was cited in several articles and biographical profiles of Warren. I'll look. Andre🚐 05:49, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dr. Phil 

message: In the area where the article lists children, it says "2, including Amelia". It is know that that Warren's children are Amelia Warren Tyagi and Alexander Warren. It would be useful to change the information to include Alexander Warren, as of current it is difficult to glean his existence from the current article. Thanks for reading, and have a great day! Emrehozchan (talk) 13:29, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Liu1126 (talk) 14:07, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 4 January 2024 

message: As a former chair of hiring and advancement at Harvard, I take exception with you ludicrous statement that Ms Warren received no preferential consideration due to her claims of indigenous heritage. You lose credibility when you cover for her. This site, which I have given substantial donations to,absolutely must show the good, bad, and ugly, otherwise you are nothing. 2601:249:8780:6530:4D57:406:3A73:8FBD (talk) 07:06, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done for now: The article does not state that she received no preferential consideration. It does, however, attribute statements that she received no preferential consideration to other reliable sources. If you are able to provide other sources of equal quality stating the opposite, please do so that they can be included. Please also keep in mind that all Wikipedia editors are volunteers – while we appreciate your financial support of the site, none of us receive any compensation. Tollens (talk) 08:14, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 10 February 2024