Talk:Ocean's Thirteen

message: The plans go momentarily awry when the Federal Bureau of Investigation  shows up, tipped off on plans to rig one of the gambling table's card shuffling machines by Livingston... I believe this part is semi incorrect. Most of that event was part of the plan. Livingston, nor anyone else, could figure out how to rig the blackjack machines so they had him intentionally get caught by one of their own, Bobby Caldwell. Then, nobody could play Blackjack because Bank had to assume *all* of the Blackjack machines got tampered with. So Bank had to wait for the new Blackjack machines until people could play. This works for the group because the patrons of the casino then had to play games that were rigged. What Ocean's crew DIDN'T count on was Bank using the thumbprints on the machine to find known associates, and in the film you see that the crew was actually surprised at this. Just my personal take on it. Pretty minor overall but I figure somebody out there might want to change the synopsis to reflect it. -Anonymous  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.6.147.153 (talk) 14:51, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Minor Plot Detail

message: Which came first, the Trivia and Quotes on the Ocean's 13 IMDB page or the ones here? --Teclo 16:02, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We can't really do much until the movie is released. -Litefantastic 15:40, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Trivia and Quotes

message: In the television Trailer for the movie they briefly show a character named "The Nose", but I notice that on both IMDB and Wikipedia that the character/actor is not referenced.--71.177.84.72 02:49, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is Matt Damon "The Nose" character? 

message: The text for plot synopsis says "I don't like this movie", which strikes me as a bit churlish, and also beside the point.
58.8.168.175 17:02, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sniping in the synopsis 

message: Does anyone know the title of the soundtrack piece that plays at the end of the trailer? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.122.0.186 (talk • contribs) 14:59, June 10, 2007
Hey it has certainly been 3 years but yeah it's Soul Thing by The Motherhood. Maybe you looked it up already, but I don't care96.25.80.203 (talk) 07:49, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Question

message: The article violates NPOV. I know it's Start Class but this page will be seen by thousands of readers with the release of the movie so at least something should be done. I'm going to go about and edit the article extensively from a neutral standpoint. That said, the movie sucks. Zuracech lordum 18:39, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is the diff for the removed trivia section in case it can be re-integrated into the article. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 18:56, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: POV issues

message: This article uses very bad grammar and, as said above, does violate NPOV. I've taken the liberty of placing a cleanup tag on it. I'll be doing some editing myself to this issue, as well as trying to shorten the plot (and there are a few plot holes as well). WikiScott 19:07, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Definitely agree. There's a whole lot of extraneous details that basically give a play-by-play of the entire movie, beyond the scope of a plot synopsis. It needs to be brought down to key scenes and overall plot flow. Little gags and jokes don't need to be revealed. Cybertooth85 20:38, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Article Cleanup

message: I've written up a new plot for this article. I havn't posted it yet because I want everyone who is a contributor to this article to read over it and give suggestions. I fixed many spelling errors and taken out any parts that weren't needed. I also fixed some plot holes and changed a few things around so they flow better.
The draft can be found here.
Once there is enough concensus between contributors, I think it would be good to switch what is there now and this one. Thanks. WikiScott 21:23, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The writing is still too long at over 2,000 words.  Per WP:IINFO, articles about fiction need to have summaries of the content, not a blow-by-blow account.  Also, look at Wikipedia:WikiProject Films/Style guidelines#Plot for an idea of how long the section should be.  Since this is a complex film, I think it would be acceptable to have at most 1,000 words.  However, an effort should be made to write it within 600 words if possible.  Also, thanks for asking on the talk page, and I hope you can rewrite it within the guidelines. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 21:32, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Ok, thanks for the advice, Erik. I'll try and put it within those guidelines and, though it is a complex film, try and shorten it to at least 1,000 words. Just to show- The first draft had: 5 pages, 2893 words, and 12414 characters. This draft has: 3 pages, 2089 words, and 9308 characters. WikiScott 21:38, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a start in the right direction.  Plot summaries are generally supposed to be a launching pad for the rest of the article's context, such as production and release.  It's not necessary to include excessive detail, just enough to capture an idea of what happens in the film.  So not every scene needs to be captured. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 21:41, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Well, the version is now at 897 words. I don't think I can trim it anymore as it is; everything in there is, basically, essential to the plot. The new version can be found at the same link as I posted before, and I'll still wait to upload it for atleast a day or two. (talk • contrib) 01:02, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, be bold and import it.  Your draft is a lot more appropriate than what's in the article right now. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 22:28, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Ok, the new article's in place. Thanks for the advice, Erik, I hope that I can do some good in the WikiProject Films. WikiScott (talk • contrib) 01:27, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Plot Draft 

message: Reuben didn't have a heart attack because Willie pushed him out of a restaurant venture.  He was a partner in the hotel in which the whole movie takes place.  He was pushed out of that venture, not a restaurant deal.
"...and Reuben is given the deed to the 4.6 acres of land where the hotel sits."  Did Danny really give Reuben the deed to the land that the Bank Casino sits on?  How did he acquire this deed?   The plan was to have the casino lose substantial money, making it impossible to make the quarterly profit agreed on by Bank's investors and forcing Bank to lose his position as Chairman.  I don't remember anything about losing the land?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.88.212.44 (talk • contribs) 
:Good point; I revised the synopsis in this edit. As I recall, at the end of the film, Danny says he is giving Reuben the deed to some land "at the north end of the Strip" presumably so Reuben could build his own entirely new casino resort. But it went by fast; I am not entirely sure. --Mathew5000 10:24, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plot 

message: Is Bank's hotel real or is it just made up? Y2J RKO 22:18, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hotel/Casino 

message: *Twice in the film, the protagonists criticize Bank for betraying the trust they have in people who have shaken Frank Sinatra's hand. This is a tribute to the 1960 Ocean's Eleven film starring Frank Sinatra.
*Dialogue from The Godfather is paraphrased in the film. In one scene George Clooney uses the line "What I want, what's most important to me, is that I have a guarantee..." which is a line used by Al Pacino in The Godfather to Virgil "The Turk" Sollozo. Later in the film Elliot Gould says “I hear cars coming and going, I hear Linus crying. I think you should tell me what everyone seems to know.” which is an adaption from Vito Corleone questioning Tom Hagen about Sonny Corleone's death. Possible due to the inside joke of having both Garcia and Pacino, both of who had stared in the Godfather III.  Additionally, two members of Ocean's Eleven are named Virgil and Turk.
*When Danny and Rusty are reminiscing about meeting Reuben, they are wandering in front of the Bellagio. The tune that is playing is Clair de Lune. This is the same tune that played at the end of Ocean's Eleven (2001) when all the characters are standing in front of the Bellagio watching the fountains.  Incidentally, the scene in which the eleven are admiring the fireworks after robbing/breaking the Bank is a call-back to that particular scene in Ocean's Eleven with the fountains.
*Matt Damon's character's final line in the film is "I'll see ya when I see ya." This was the same final phrase spoken to Damon himself by Edward Norton's character in the movie Rounders (1998) which was also written by Brian Koppelman and David Levien.
*This film marks the second time Pacino and Garcia have appeared in the same movie. Their first appearance together was in the movie The Godfather Part III. It has been seventeen years since the two actors have worked together.
*This film continues the running gag of referring to one of the actors outside of their characters (Example: Matt Damon talking to Bruce Willis about the Oscar statue in Ocean's Twelve). At the end of the film, after Rusty tells Danny to lose a little weight between jobs (in reference to the weight George Clooney gained in order to make Syriana), Danny smugly replies "Why don't you settle down and have a couple of kids.", referring to Brad Pitt, and his partner, Angelina Jolie, and their adoption of several children.
Above is the trivia section imported from the article, since no one has attempted to integrate the section into the rest of the body. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 03:10, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Imported Trivia 

message: Does anyone know for a fact whether or not "The Bank" hotel, as seen in the film, is a real building or a computer model? The official website says the interiors were all shot on a sound stage but it doesn't mention the source of the exteriors. --Do Not Talk About Feitclub (contributions) 09:43, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Stumbled over that same comment. Tough they claim to have used BOTH tunnel bots (english and french) they still are buried there ... I think.  ;-)--Puppy Zwolle (Puppy) (talk) 11:31, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "The Bank" casino - CGI or actual bulding? 

message: The trailer describes the entire con as a "reverse big store." 
Not sure if that actually shows up in the film (when Ocean and Ryan are talking to Roman?) jhawkinson 04:58, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Quick explanation. Cartwheel: Doing something 'outrageous' just to divert attention. --Puppy Zwolle (Puppy) (talk) 11:36, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Con's described 

message: I just watched the movie and didn't see Seth Green anywhere. Additionally, the only other piece of information I found about Seth Green being in the movie is a movie review on filmspot.com that appears to be a straight copy/paste from the Wikipedia article. Is there any concrete information here? Mephator 08:19, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Seth Green Cameo 

message: I have been policing the trivia on this page for a few months and would like to see where the consensus is for some of these items. I'm not really sure if any of the items now are worth being there, but I'll leave them there for the time being.
The items I have been removing have generally been things relating to different songs playing in the movie, or thin connections to the first version of Ocean's 11. From a wider perspective, including movie "connections" as trivia items on most movie pages would add tons and tons of (in my opinion) non-notable info to movie pages. The same goes for little notes about songs in the movies.  Gwynand (talk) 14:22, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Trivia is nice, even important but most trivia needs policing as they seem to be more 'sounds like' and 'could be' than actual conirmed facts. Keep it up. --Puppy Zwolle (Puppy) (talk) 10:13, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removing Trivia Items 

message: *Beyond the Multiplex
*The hands of Ocean's Thirteen
*Ocean's Thirteen - David Holmes interview
*David Holmes Scores ‘Ocean's Thirteen’ at Ocean Way
:For use with this article.--J.D. (talk) 18:58, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Headlines

message: To say that Bobby Caldwell is part of Ocean's 13 is pretty much ruining the plot device/twist before someone even sees it. If you say that he's part of Ocean's 13, then you would say that the Molly Star character (Linus' Mom) was part of Ocean's 12 because they had the same role. If you include Bobby Caldwell, why not include the character of Debbie? It doesn't matter if Benedict screwed them over. In the previews/reviews it was always presented that Benedict was part of Ocean's 13. Even the synopsis of the movie from previews is "Danny Ocean and his band of thieves return, this time teaming up with their old nemesis, Terry Benedict."  Please discuss this first and come up with evidence that the producers or director meant for Caldwell to be part of Ocean's 13, otherwise don't change something that's been there forever. ----Ðysepsion † Speak your mind 16:36, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Ocean's 13

message: Does anyone know what happened to all the casino props used on the set of oceans 13? They replicated a full scale casino and yet you can't find a single poker chip at any prop store. Were talking about tens of thousands of chips, hundreds of sticks of dice, and hundreds of decks of cards.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.205.132.7 (talk) 03:02, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bank casino movie props 

message: The scene where Matt Damon is walking around some European city on the phone with the camera shaky and him frantically speaking has to be a reference to his performance in the Bourne movies doesn't i?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by You're With Me, Leather (talk • contribs) 20:29, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bourne Series Reference? 

message: In the UK release, Eddie Izzard as Roman Nagel makes a reference to the British comedy duo Eric Morecambe & Ernie Wise. Is this line included in other versions, or is a substitute comedy duo used? ? Barfbagger (talk) 21:34, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Morecambe & Wise 

message: FYI Ikip (talk) 06:58, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Rusty_Ryan_(2nd_nomination)]] Brad Pitt character in film 

message: There's a bit in the plot about the Diamond Awards and the necklaces that could use review by someone more familiar with the plot of the film. My memory's a bit fuzzy on it. Does Bank buy the necklaces because he wins the award, or are they part of the award itself? I'll make some changes, but help appreciated. Doniago (talk) 15:07, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Diamond Awards and Necklaces