Talk:List of tier 1 internet service providers

message: I'm adding Primus Telecom ( primustel.com ) to the list as they appear to fit the criteria for a Tier 1 ISP. (Disclosure: I'm a primustel australia customer).
Edit:  Agile/Internode ( http://internode.on.net ), and Comindico ( http://www.comindico.com.au ) as they are considered Tier 1 ISP's in Australia —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 211.27.82.46 (talk • contribs) 11:57, 14 May 2004  (UTC)
TeliaSonera International Carrier is a Tier1 Network.
TeliaSonera International Carrier, not to be mixed with teliasonera that handles End Costumers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TeliaSonera_International_Carrier
It is a Tier 1 network provider with Autonomous System number AS1299. In 2013 TeliaSonera was the second biggest carrier in the world.[1]  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.123.144.4 (talk) 02:03, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Primus Telecom, Agile/Internode, Comindico

message: Cleaned up list, forgot to post about 2 weeks ago. Let me add that Primus is not a Tier1 even in Australia, but are close enough and will become the 5th as soon as telstra peers with them. The tier1's in AU are: MCI; AAPT/CONNECT; Telstra; SINGTEL Optus. Primus and Agile are in the ranks to be moved up; as well as powertel who has purchased NTT/Verio's customers in AU. Australia is more of a tier 2 base offering services to the people really wanting tier 1. SPT Comindico is hardly tier 1, they dropped connections over SCCN and limit themselves very broadly until they bring things around. Give them a good 4 - 5 years before even considering them tier 1; but they are a carriers carrier or a tier 2. Tier 1 ISP isn't at all meaningless here in 2005; run checks on the routing tables, it still holds very true today. To be considered Tier1 in the US or Canada, you need to own your own network backbone in either owned fiber or have a long term IRU, peer with those currently considered Tier 1 and be able to show enough traffic to support an ISP to actually buy from you (Why else is ATDN considered Tier1, people buy announcements via transit from them). Entire list updated, please note edits in here and save them. Dont go deleting them if you dont like them or believe they arn't Tier 1 without verification, I can back each one of them up with proof via route servers and personal knowledge. --68.57.130.138 05:51, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Cleaned up list

message: Users should post here for all deletions or additions done to the page, I've checked each provider against route servers and verified global tier 1 status. Some are just common sense, yet were verified eitherway. Removals of ISP's because you have never heard of them or you think they are not tier 1, shouldn't be done without clear verification and proof to show that you have proven they are or are not tier 1. --68.57.130.138 23:27, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Additions or removals from tier 1 isp page

message: An anonymous editor added Cogent to the list, probably due to the controversy surrounding a de-peering between Level (3) and Cogent today.  As I don't have enough information to determine whether it belongs here or not, I'm leaving it listed and adding .  Feel free to remove Cogent if I didn't do the right thing according to Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. Baricom 07:16, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: apparently cognet do buy transit to some networks though i don't have information off hand on which ones. so that would make them not a tier 1 Plugwash 01:55, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cogent 

message: The pile of edits without justification is getting unmanageable. I've gone back to the latest revision that actually had a relavent comment on what was being done to the list and made some small edits to the text below the list, i will be mercilessly reverting any edits to the list that do not provide justification for the actual changes (and no insulting other editors is not justifying your edits). Sorry to have to do it this way but there doesn't seem any other way to keep this list sane Plugwash 02:03, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  right 

message: Aol has been on and off the list quite a bit recently, can anyone confirm/deny if they buy service from any other isp or not? Plugwash 02:08, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  aol 

message: Some of this is just information which you are never going to be able to offically verify, due to Non-Disclosure Agreements surrounding peering at the Tier 1 level. At a certain point (if you want this list to be accurate at any rate) people who do not know who is a Tier 1 and who isn't are just going to have to accept the information provided by those who do have detailed understanding of the settlement currently in use in this industry.
If you have a question about a specific network, ask, and I'm certain that someone who understands these relationships will be able to point out how a network does or does not qualify. Just to throw out some answers to some of the questions posed here already:
* ATDN: 100% settlement free. I understand that some question has been raised about the "other business" AOL does with Level 3 in the form of outsourced dial. These kinds of deals involving the exchange of business external to the IP in question are certainly a factor in a great many complex peering relationships, but in this particular case I think it passes the test because ATDN does not pay Level 3 settlement for its IP directly, and the outsourced dial business is a stand-alone contract which is not used to justify or pay for peering.
* Cogent: Buys transit from Verio to reach networks who will not peer with it, such as ATDN and Sprint.
* British Telecom: Buys from Sprint.
* Everything else listed: not even up for consideration, all very obviously buy transit.
Humble226
----
:"In the public Internet, acces networks situationed at the edge of the Internet are connected to the rest of the Internet through a tiered hierarchy of Internet Services providers (ISPs)... At the very top of this hierarchy is a relatively small number of so-called Tier-1 ISPs. In many ways, a Tier-1 ISP is the same as any network - it has links and routers and is connected to other networks. In other ways, however, tier-1 ISPs are special. Their link speeds are often 622 Mbps or higher, with the larger tier-1 ISPs having links in the 2.5-10 Gbps range; their routers must consequently forward packets at extremely high rates. Tier 1 ISPs are also characterized by being: 
:* Directly connected to each of the other tier-1 ISPs
:* Connected to a large number of tier-2 ISPs and other customer networks
:* International in coverage. 
:Tier 1 ISPs are also known as Internet backbone networks. As of this writing, UUNet (a subsidiary of WorldCom) is the largest Tier 1 ISP; other major backbones companies include Sprint, AT&T, Genuity, and Cable and Wireless" - 
:--James Kurose, Computer Network - A Top Down Approach Featuring the Internet, pg 39) [This is by far the most popular undergrad computer networking textbook] →Raul654 02:57, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Humble thanks for stating your reasoning but its still unsourced, anyone can make assertions like that true or otherwise without sources it doesn't mean a great deal. Plugwash 16:49, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

text: I posted this comment in another section of the this discussion page originally, but it's more appropriate right here...  Dayv 00:00, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Any proof you could offer would be POV and would probably violate Wikipedia:No original research as well.  No matter what anyone says to the contrary, "Tier 1" is *only* a colloquial marketing term, not conclusively defined by any authority.  There is no RFC, ANSI standard, or other indisputable document from which you can extract an ironclad proof of what networks are or aren't "Tier 1."  This list should either be changed to "networks commonly considered Tier 1" or (my preference) deleted.  The only reason I'm not adding this list to AfD myself is that I am employed by a Tier 1 provider (not saying which one) and thus feel a bit less than objective doing so.  Dayv 21:59, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Determining Tier 1 Status 

message: Merging this list into Tier 1 carrier.  Don't know if we should merge the talk pages too, or just continue the discussion over there....   Jamie 01:33, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Merge complete.  Jamie 01:42, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merging to [[Tier 1 carrier]] 

message: If I can throw in my 2 cents here, I'm quite convinced that there are more than 9 tier 1 providers.  As mentioned below, the problem is that the term tier 1 and tier 2 have not been defined.  I know I learned about the terms from a geek admin and I've never seen it written down.  So now we're trying to write it down and everyone's definition is going to be slightly different.  Here's my proposal - when a certain percentage of the world's internet traffic is on your network then you qualify as a "tier 1."  As to what that percentage is, I suggest 1%.  However, I don't know how your going to determine who has what percent of the worlds internet traffic.  
Originally I thought that a tier 1 provider was the one who owns the fiber in the ground.  But that simply doesn't work because the fiber is really only owned by handful of companies (who have nothing to do with bandwidth) and then hundreds of companies lease the fiber including the 9 already defined tier 1 providers.  
To me, the perfect example of a tier 2 is www.internap.com who boast about buying OC12's from various "tier 1" providers in each city and they they ping who has the fastest routes in any given hour and route that way.  Then they sell their bandwidth to ISPs who otherwise couldn't  afford to build that network.  And originally, they were a tier 2 but I feel like they are moving enough traffic these days that they have graduated to being a tier 1.  So again, I feel that its the amount of traffic moving on the network that defines a tier 1 from a tier 2.  
Here's my list of networks that in my mind are tier 1 providers.  Sorry, I'm in USA so I'm sure I'm leaving out networks outside the US.
Abovenet
AT&T 
Broadwing Communications
Cogent
Grande Communications
ICG Communications 
Level(3)/Global Crossing 
Looking Glass Networks 
MCI
McLeodUSA 
OnFiber Communications 
Qwest 
Savvis 
SBC
Sprint
Telmex 
Time Warner Telecom 
UUNET 
Verizon
WilTel Communications
XO
Zayo Group  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.82.208.100 (talk) 16:40, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Many more tier 1 providers in my opinion