Talk:John M. Ford

message: Please note that the original version of this article was set up by Deb using text from John Ford, and she turned John Ford into a disambiguation page. Please see the page history of John Ford for attributions of authorship. -- Oliver P. 20:47, 6 Aug 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: A side-note for those unfamiliar with his works: John M. Ford's works included sly references to the other John Fords, e.g. one novel opens with a quote from the Jacobean play Perkin Warbeck and ends with a quote from the movie Stagecoach — in neither case mentioning the playwright or movie director by name. Characteristically, he left making the connection as an exercise for the reader. – SAJordan talkcontribs 08:20, 17 Nov 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page history 

message: It is with regret that I set the subject's "living" flag to "no".  ACW 18:47, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Subject's death 

message: Will Shetterly moved his web pages off of apocalypse.org to blogspot.  Please see the parent directory of that page, http://www.apocalypse.org/pub/flash/  While the maintainers of apocalypse.org haven't removed the content, it would be courteous to not needlessly use their bandwidth.  Will Shetterly is maintaining content at qwertyranch.blogspot.com, and in fact referred to that address recently: http://shetterly.blogspot.com/2006/09/bit-more-about-john-m-ford.html 70.181.146.182 22:49, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Will Shetterly's Introduction to John M. Ford 

message: The only really biographical information here is about Ford's illness and death.  When I split the long lede into sections, I reluctantly called that section "Death".  Somebody who knows more about Ford's life should change the section title to "Life" and add enough info to merit the name.  ACW 17:03, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  More bio needed 

message: Left intact from the earliest version of this page is the claim that "Ford's works are characterised by an aversion to doing things that have been done before."  This is true in a sense, and false in a sense.  Mike wrote several novels of the Bildungsroman (coming-of-age) type; although the entry attaches that label only to Growing Up Weightless, it could also be fairly applied to Web of Angels, The Final Reflection, Princes of the Air, and even somewhat to The Last Hot Time.  Put another way, Mike repeatedly wrote on the theme of growing up, learning about one's world and one's place in it, and taking responsibility for it — which involves taking on the power and wisdom to influence events, to help make the world a better place.  This is a significant commonality, and I think worth mentioning.  I am adding a paragraph to that effect, but not altering the prior existing text.  This will result in a slight contradiction between paragraphs, which probably should be resolved.  I'm just reluctant to alter someone else's argument. -- SAJordan 03:15, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Work" description 

message: The anonymous editor from IP 68.40.161.247 has, for the first time, actually said something.  The anon chose to communicate by making resultless edits to the main article (making an edit and undoing it before saving), and leaving opinions in the comment field.  I would guess from this that our anon doesn't know how to use a talk page.
The first comment reads:
:Who found a dead author is irrelevant.  Is who found Mark Twain dead listed or of note?  Perhaps Elise just needs to see her name in print.  SELF SERVING SH
And the second one:
:Per request of family, no further edits will be made.  The family wants nothing to do either with rabid fans nor pathetic hanger-ons.
In case this editor happens to read the talk page, permit me a measured answer.  I have read one novel and one poem by Mr. Ford, and am not a fan or a hanger-on, but merely a Wikipedia editor; I have no dog in this hunt.
The person who discovers the subject dead is an incident in the subject's biography.  Names of wives, partners, parents, and children are also completely standard biographical material.  Mentioning the name of a decade-long partner seems entirely appropriate to me.  I had never heard of Ms. Mattheson before, but her mention seems to fit into a biographical precis with no strain whatever.  I would like (as I mentioned above) to see more biographical incident in this article, which seems barely above stub-quality to me at the moment.  Wikipedia does not risk running out of storage because there is too much detail in this article.
If Mr. Ford's family has an opinion in this matter, there are numerous channels by which they may express it.  Their opinions would carry much more weight if they were signed.  As the statement stands, it is impossible to tell whether it represents the true wishes of the family or not.  But even if this description of the family's wishes were verified, it would have no legal force.  Though we might sometimes wish it otherwise, people are free to write what they like about each other.  The family of Alan Turing attempted for many years to suppress biographical claims that Turing was homosexual.  These attempts were unsuccessful; biographers enjoy freedom of expression.
On second reading, the statement is ambiguous: perhaps it means that the anonymous editor intends to make no further edits.  If that was what was meant, I have almost equal regret.  What would be ideal would be for this anonymous editor to come out of the closet and be constructive.  Sir or madam: it appears you know something about Mr. Ford.  Will you not consider actually contributing to the article?
ACW 05:10, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: At some point, I'd like to add more biographical information, and clarify bits of what's there, but I want it to be specific. I could, now, write "worked for companies in the gaming industry," but I'd like to find company names, and ideally dates and what games he worked on in addition to what's already listed. Similarly, I have a query in to try to find out exactly what year Mike moved to Minneapolis.Vicki Rosenzweig 14:15, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The gaming companies include FASA and Steve Jackson Games, at least. In the external links "About Ford", Steve Jackson's website is listed, as is Eric Burns (who also wrote for FASA). They might be able to fill in whatever blanks were left by John M. Ford#Games. – SAJordan talkcontribs 15:34, 21 Nov 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anonymous editor speaks, sort of 

message: I don't know how to do Meta-wiki.  I began a section today for Mike's shorter works.  I'd be obliged if some more wiki-savvy person created a meta-file for those.  I plan to keep adding to the shorter works as I can.
Thanks!
=Chica= 01:43, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Rather than recreate the work NESFA has done, maybe a better think to do would be to better emphasize the NESFA biblio. (currently mentioned as an external link) and supplement it here with the short works post 1997? 65.161.195.226 21:41, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That seems sensible. NESFA are pretty good about keeping information online. Vicki Rosenzweig 03:54, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request 

message: The first paragraph of this article is unduly fawning and adulatory, replete with positive adjectives. I added the NPOV flag. A lizard 06:39, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: NPOV

message: I don't know what an "attack site" is, but Making Light, a notable website edited by prominent professionals in the science fiction field, is most certainly the place on which Mr Ford's death was first reported. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Doctorow (talk • contribs) 23:36, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've replied on your user talk page.  ·:·Will Beback  ·:· 23:48, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: See my essay for commentary on the whole contentious "attack sites" issue. *Dan T.* 04:18, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  The discussion, then, is on User talk:Doctorow#Making Light. See also the discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Attack site incident - comment by Will Beback (talk • contribs • blocks • protects • deletions • moves), which led to the part of rules Will Beback tries to use as justification being disputed, with explanation at Wikipedia talk:No personal attacks#Yet another round of "attack site" nonsense. --Malyctenar 10:04, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

text:  Some parallel discussions of this were led at Talk:Teresa Nielsen Hayden#Making Light is not an attack site and User talk:JulesH#Attack sites. --Malyctenar 12:53, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Making Light is not an attack site