Talk:Levant

message: The Levant is defined simply as " The countries bordering on the eastern Mediterranean Sea from Turkey to Egypt." by dictionary.com.  Also, the French mandates over Lebanon and Syria were called the Levant states.  The argument that the east parts of Jordan and Syria are in 'Mesopotamia' is unfounded.  In fact, in archaeology, there is a key separation between the region called Mesopotamia and Northern Syria.  The only part of Syria that may be considered in Mesopotamia is the Hasakah province.  I have no idea where the argument against Jordan comes through.Yuber 22:33, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: what are you talking about? Nobody claimed Jordan and Syria "are not part of the Levant". They are simply not contained in the Levant. Look, Syria and Lebanon are contemporary states, and the "Levant" is a historical term for the area. They overlap, but they are not identical. Yuber, your editing style is not pleasant. All edits I have seen from you were belligerent, or designed to pick petty fights. This is not the Wikipedia spirit. I advise you to take it easy, and try to argue with people in a friendly spirit. You are not surrounded by enemies. dab (ᛏ) 22:39, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I've looked through many sources on the uses of the Levant and I have found no info that only the west parts of Jordan and Syria are in it.  The fact that it's an approximate region also proves this.  If you see the Names of the Levant you can further confirm this.  I'm sorry if my edits seemed belligerent, as I haven't made any personal attacks on anyone and I have just stated my point.Yuber 22:42, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I just edited the article to make clear the points of you and Jayjg.  However, I would like to point out that in the region of the worlds template at the bottom of the page there is no "Mesopotamia".  Since you are an expert on middle eastern regions, dab, perhaps you would like to fix this.Yuber 22:55, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

text: ok, you do have a point: we are saying that 'occasionally' the term is used in a modern context. In these cases, it may occasionally also refer to the entire state of Syria/Jordan. However, use of "Levant" in a modern context is quite over the top, stylistically. The basic meaning is/was "eastern borders of the Mediterranean". Now Eastern Syria is certainly not adjacent to the Mediterranean, but in a sense of "states that border the east coast of the Med", it may be possible to include it. We're going to say that this usage is neither current nor recommended anyway. Just like "Mesopotamia" is usually used in contexts of ancient history, "Levant" is usually reserved for historical discussions. We have Near East for current issues :) dab (ᛏ) 22:59, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

text: I'm no expert on Middle Eastern regions. If anything, I'm an expert on semantics, i.e. I care about how a term is used and by whom. As I say above, "Mesopotamia" is hardly used for the contemporary region. Its area is contained in "Middle/Near East". dab (ᛏ) 22:59, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The term began to be used in a modern context after the French occupation.  If anything, blame France for extending the borders of the Levant farther east :).Yuber 23:02, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: it may be that in French the term is more commonly used in contemporary contexts. Come to think of it, the "Levant" link in the "regions" template does seem a bit out of place. I would suggest it is replaced with Near East (which has, after all, the same meaning. It's just that the crusaders didn't reach as far inland) dab (ᛏ) 23:08, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps they should be both included, since I really don't know how far the "Near East" extends to.  Also, I have a great interest in archaeology and that is where I have seen the term 'Levant' used the most.Yuber 23:56, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Strange editing by users claiming Jordan and Syria are not part of the Levant 

message: Anonymos 66.99.20.130 inserted the following under §Etymology, immediately after the first clause in the first sentence, disputing the first attestation of "Levant" in English to 1497.
(This can't be true.  Levant and Outremer were interchangeable during the time of the Crusades, which began in 1095)
Leaving aside the inappropriate placement of the complaint in the body of the article — in the middle of a sentence, and without citation — the complaint does not seem to specifically address the statement. First attestation does not indicate when a term was coined, first popular, or even first noticed by compilers of dictionaries. It only indicates the age of the oldest available use of the term in writing — and specifically in this case in the writing of English. There's nothing implausible about a term current (in French, perhaps?) between ca. 1100 and 1300 not showing up in any long-lived English text before ca. 1500.
:::::::—Americist 18:02, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Editorial Complaint Removed from Article Body 

message: In the Etymology section it says:
::As such, it is broadly equivalent to the Arabic term Mashriq, "the land where the sun rises".
Actually, Al Mshriq refers to very much wider range that includes Iraq, KSA, Yemen and the Gulf states.  The Levant in Arabic is Al Shaam الشام.  --Maha Odeh (talk) 05:04, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: In a narrow sense, the Levant can be regarded as being the same as Shaam, but in a broad sense, the Levant is not Shaam. This is because Shaam (, Ash-Shâm) is a region that is bordered by the Taurus Mountains of Anatolia in the north, the Mediterranean Sea in the west, the Arabian Desert in the south, and Mesopotamia in the east. It thus includes the modern countries of Syria and Lebanon, and the land of Palestine,Article "AL-SHĀM" by C.E. Bosworth, Encyclopaedia of Islam, Volume 9 (1997), page 261. but not Iraq or the Sinai peninsula, for example. Leo1pard (talk) 05:31, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etymology 

message: I ordered the last section in alphabetical order:
Israel, Jordan, Lebannon, Palestine, Syria. I'm syrian and I don't mean anything by it, some people might take it as a reason to argue that Israel should not come first since it's not in alphabetical order. Thanks. 62.240.47.167 (talk)Ali  —Preceding comment was added at 20:00, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems Iraq was added to that list (Regions) since you did so, but Israel is still first on the list. 141.157.197.57 (talk) 20:19, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Order 

message: I've notice many vandals have come on the page, and deleted Israel and put "Palestine" in its place, even tho Palestine is not a UN Member State or meet the criteria of the term "state," although it does have a delegation to the UN. First off, deleting Israel is not acceptable. Putting it at the bottom is ridiculous, as these states are in alphabetical order which means Israel comes second in the list if no Cyprus, or third if there is Cyprus listen. What should we do to combat these vandals? Should we include the Palestinian Authority territories? Perhaps in a separate section, like "recognized territories, or put it indented under Israel? If it is there, how is it done without compromising the article or NPOV?Tallicfan20 (talk) 22:09, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Palestine is in there now. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 15:07, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  About Palestinian Authority territories 

message: It occurred to me that this article and the discussion it generated seem to omit the fact that Neolithic culture began in the Levant (Jericho, modern-day West Bank) some fourteen thousand years ago, long before political borders, when the climate was quite different than it is in historical times.
"The beginning of the Neolithic culture is considered to be in the Levant (Jericho, modern-day West Bank) about 10200-8800 cal. BCE. It developed directly from the Epipaleolithic Natufian culture in the region, ... 12000-10200 cal. BCE." --http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neolithic
Hpfeil (talk) 16:51, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ancient activities omitted? 

message: I saw the recent edits going back and forth between Palestine and State of Palestine, as well as Palestinian territories. I would like to propose a solution.
On the one hand, I understand that all other countries in the list are official states. For that reason, I think that "Palestinian territories" is not an option that is acceptable to all. The statehood of the State of Palestine is an issue for others. Since we all agree that the this article, Levant, is about a geographical area, perhaps we could agree to link to "Palestine", which is also about the geographical area, with no political associations? Debresser (talk) 13:20, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see a problem with State of Palestine, considering the fact that it is not a full UN member state, but is officially referred to as "state".GreyShark (dibra) 14:37, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Palestine 

message: change ((Palestine)) to ((State of Palestine|Palestine))
:Not done. Please specify where you propose to make this change. Two links titled "Palestine" in infobox and "Geography and modern-day use of the term" actually point to State of Palestine, these easter eggs probably should be changed to Palestine (region) or Palestinian Territories since the article is about geography and not politics. “WarKosign” 13:58, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Palestine 

message: Lebanon means in the ancient phoenician which has been retained in the biblical Hebrew: The white mountains, refering to the Hermon mountains. Is it clear that Levant has nothing to do with this? פשוט pashute ♫ (talk) 15:04, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: The article specifically says that the name Levant is unrelated to Lebanon, and you seem to agree with this notion, so what is the problem exactly ? “WarKosign” 15:49, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: OK I read David F. Graf in the source given, (Ancient Greece and Rome edited by Michael Gagarin), and you (he) convinced me. So, your correct, no problem.פשוט pashute ♫ (talk) 17:21, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  levant and lebanon 

message: Responding to פשוט pashute ♫, it doesn't matter if Israel administers Jerusalem or not. East Jerusalem is occupied territory and is not recognised as part of Israel by the international community. Therefore, it is not in Israel. It is occupied by Israel.
Regarding citizenship, the vast majority of Arabs (both Muslim and Christians) in Jerusalem are blue ID holders and not Israeli citizens. I'm not sure what source you used for this false information. This is shown by any amount of research you do, and of course if you talk to Arabs in Jerusalem which I assume you have not. Here is a recent  Haaretz article: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.669643.
Nayef (talk) 17:06, 29 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you Nayef. (Your assumption btw is wrong. Illi as'hab fi'l (Q)uds wa'anna bahki ubaktob Arabi...). We are discussing the article not our political views. Right?  So the question is about the flag and not the Jerusalem citizen's status - which is not mentioned in the article. Let's please continue the discussion there. I promise to respond to each of your points. פשוט pashute ♫ (talk) 16:37, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Responding to Jerusalem Citizens Status 

message: Dear User:Leoboudv, I agree with you that the term is quite ambiguous and one can find verifiable sources that rightfully claim any number of borders or areas of inclusion/exclusion, and which becomes even more ambiguous when you throw in the passage of time. Everyone who has done some research on the subject is probably "right" to some degree. It is a term that I would compare to the modern world's use of the term "The West" (can anyone specify its borders?  yet there is a general sense of what it means) or The Pacific Rim, or for that matter, the Middle East.  Who is in charge of making the final decision as to specific borders of these terms?  No one, of course. I think the news media comes up with such terms, and they either stick if they are useful, or die a natural death if not.  As to historical or ancient place names, aren't they sometimes the creations of archeologists and other scholars attempting to clarify or specify various facts to make their research easier to understand, rather than an attempt to place boundaries on areas or places that don't meet our modern concepts of nationhood or geopolitical boundaries? Kurt76.171.173.77 20:01, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is there a right or wrong to this question, and does it matter? 

message: In the intro:
: It is an imprecise term, however, because it refers to an area of cultural habitation rather than to a specific area of land. It is a much needed term, however, given that throughout much of history this region has had many different national or political names.
"Imprecise" and "much needed" are POV.  They are probably correct, but still OR.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.242.13.87 (talk) 06:26, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: POV

message: Traditionally the Levant includes Cyprus, Turkey,even Greece --as can be seen in the text. The map and the rest does not seem to mean "Levant", rather "Fertile Crescent" or Greater Syria
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Epistemeter (talk • contribs) 22:10, October 26, 2008 (UTC) – Please sign your posts!
:Agreed. The article should make clear that there are no defined boundaries for "Levant," and that historically different authors used it in various ways, some more narrowly and others broader. Many authors included Turkey as part of the Levant, and this should be mentioned. E.g., a 2010 article by a Senior Fellow at the Center for American Progress is entitled "The New Levant: Understanding Turkey’s Shifting Roles in the Eastern Mediterranean", which explicitly states: "the central and eastern regions of the country, which once were considered part of the Levant." In December 2010, Turkey, Syria, Lebanon and Jordan signed an agreement to form a “Levant Quartet” to develop stronger economic and cultural ties. The "Levant Company" was formed in 1581, and was also called the Turkish Company. Members of it were called Turkey Merchants, and it established centers ranging from Constantinople to Smryna, Alexandria, and Aleppo. There are cookbooks on The Levant: Lebanon, Syria and Turkey Authentic Dishes, Latin-Levantines refers to Christians who lived under the Ottoman Empire, the Levantine Cultural Centre (and its Review) includes Turkey, etc. One could also give examples of authors who use a more restrictive boundary. Then, one could have a section on reliable-source authors who debate these boundaries, and present those RS-authors' views on why or when they prefer a narrower or broader definition. (There is no need for original research to judge these discussions; simply present them.) Benefac (talk) 05:41, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Too restrictive designation 

message: I'm unsure why you, Izzedine, keep reverting the map of the Levant.  This map is well referenced and does certainly not fall under Original Research.  Like most of my maps (and most Wikipedia articles), it was developed using multiple sources.
I would be interested in hearing any critique of the map.    MapMaster (talk) 05:07, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, Izzedine, I see you have been edit-warring at :File:EasternMedMap.JPG.  You have reverted 3 other editors' changes there.  Apparently you believe that Irag is part of the Levant.  I have seen no definition that includes Iraq and I am certain that the standard mainstream definition does not go so far to the East.  MapMaster (talk) 05:16, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

text: *The scope on this map is original research. The shaded crescent is placed arbitrarily. The Eastern Med map is for the Eastern Med article, and there are several sources there verifying Iraq's inclusion into the region. Those are two seperate articles for different terms and with different references. As for levant, I have several references which include Iraq, which I will add. Izzedine 06:28, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

text: * You say the shade in this map is placed arbitrarily, that is because the levant is an arbitrary definition, not an exact one. The shaded map represent the levant much more accurately.Somebody please revert it (dont wanna join the editing war myself) Aa2-2004 (talk) 20:56, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Map concerns 

message: 1. The Levant region referes also to ancient times, before the 8CE, when Arabs where still not present as significant part of the population of the Levant. Ancient people like the Phenocians, Ashurians and etc didn't speak Arabic and Arabic became dominant in the region only after Islam was formed, at about the 8CE.
2. Hebrew is also spoken in the Levant today and was spoken in the Levant, according to historical and arechological accounts, much before Arabic was. So why it is not included in the article lead? --Gilisa (talk) 20:07, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: 3 and 4: The Arabic name of the region " Mashriq" referes also to Egypt and geographically it's different from the regions included in the Levant. There is not single one RS indicating the Levant came from  Mashriq or that "Mashriq" even preceded "Levant" as a term to describe the region. --Gilisa (talk) 06:59, 25 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why do the name of the region appear in Arabic, and if already so, why in Arabic only? 

message: Levant is a geographical area not defined by national borders. This image better represents the area. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 19:38, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The Levant is a loose definition. These regions were arbitrarily cup up by the french and british, that's why parts of Iraq or Saudi appear in the map. The majority of people in this discussion are of the view that the Levant is not an exact definition.--Aa2-2004 (talk) 15:36, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image 

message: 78% greek, 18% turk, 4% other including armenian, so cant be most-spoken minority language in the country can itEugene-elgato (talk) 23:37, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: In any case, that statement doesn't belong in the article.  I've removed it. --Macrakis (talk) 03:27, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It's come back!Eugene-elgato (talk) 18:22, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Currently, a dialect of Levantine Arabic, Cypriot Maronite Arabic, is the most-spoken minority language in the country 

message: Does anyone actually read books any more? Does anyone read them with a critical mindset?
I find it very ironic that the only WikiProject NOT interested in this article is France, though the French coined the name. And, it was coined for purely theological reasons, not those of politics or geography. Awaiting a new Crusade to the lost Holy Land, in typical Medieval mysticism they begun to refer to it as Levant thereby alluding to the correctness of their eschatology over that of Islam, i.e. the second coming (rising).
Just because some authors choose to use the wrong term doesn't mean Wikipedia has to do so also based on "reliable sources". They may be reliable, but nutz at the same time!
In ancient geography the Med was called "the sea". Sometimes "the western sea". I have seen references to it as the Phoenician Sea, though rarely, and mostly from early Roman sources I think. Modern geographers have a name for the part we are concerned with, the Eastern Mediterranean littoral Region. I quote "The eastern Mediterranean littoral is a narrow strip of plain varying in width from zero to c. 40 km." And it can be defined in terms of 'behaviour' of those that occupied it in the ancient history of the region. 
"By the middle of the first millennium BC the known world of western mankind centred on the eastern Mediterranean and the adjacent Middle East. This was divided into two sub-regions, a
maritime and a continental one, each of which was characterized by its own particular type of state. In the maritime sub-region it was the city-state, the whole existence of which was bound up with its maritime location. In the continental subregion it was the territorial state, the existence of which was equally bound up with its continental location. To territorial states wealth and power were achieved through the acquisition of more land, while to city-states these attributes were the products of trade.", and "The centuries following the establishment of the first city-states saw the rise of the Assyrian Empire and in the ninth century BC this brought about a fundamental change in the Mediterranean world. Expanding rapidly from their homeland in northern Mesopotamia, the Assyrians reduced Babylon to dependency and advanced westwards to the sea. The whole of the eastern Mediterranean littoral, home of the first city-states, rapidly fell into their hands. In 878 BC the Phoenician city-states lost their independence and became subjects of the king of Assyria. This conquest of the core region of the Phoenician world resulted in the complete disruption of the commercial system that had been built up over the preceding centuries."(Sovereign city: the city-state through history, Geoffrey Parker, p.25)
Never mind that Parker elsewhere calls the place "Middle East", but the point is that the Med defined the region, and would continue to do so until today as a land, and with the Suez canal, a maritime bridge between Europe and Asia. Why anyone would want to call it after the rising of the Sun, which is the most literal expression of POV, I would not have a clue. The Japanese were so sure they were the first to see the rising of the Sun, they put it on their national flag!
Can we please stop this pursuit of the impossible, and relegate the Levant to European Medieval history? Koakhtzvigad (talk) 16:20, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Koakhtzvigad, thank you for your thoughtful comments above.  You've changed the Levant article into an interesting essay arguing that the modern use of the term "Levant" is based on an abuse of the medieval French terminology.  An interesting discussion, but I am not convinced that it is what belongs in Wikipedia.  Wikipedia describes what is; it doesn't advocate for what should be.  True, the pre-existing Levant article had some issues, but I'm afraid I don't find your edits to be an improvement.  Your edits start by defining the Levant as a term ("a term used for geographic identification of Asia...")-- though Wikipedia articles are about concepts, not about words.  You then mix a discussion of the referent of 'Levant' with the role of the region "as a trade link to Asia". Then you talk about the ecology of the region, as though it had been defined ecologically -- which according to your own definitions, it had not.  I plan to go back to the older framework of the article, though I will try to keep additional information you've added as possible.  I invite other editors to discuss all this. --Macrakis (talk) 01:18, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I have seen no discussion on this topic here on the Talk page, so I have made some updates based on my above comments.  It is not up to Wikipedia to determine that some common academic term is an "abuse" or "eurocentric". Many geographical terms have historical origins which have become separated from their modern meanings.  For example, "Anatolia" is Greek for the East (just as Levant is French for the East), yet the geographic and cultural entity is called "Anatolian" even for periods long before there were Greeks (cf. Anatolian languages).  The Americas are named for a 15th-century cartographer, even when referring to periods before Europeans knew of them.  "Palestine" refers to a certain geographical region, even referring to periods before the arrival of the Philistines (about 1200 BCE).  The name "Egypt" is apparently a Greek corruption of the name of a temple in Memphis. "Africa" in Latin referred to part of North Africa, not the whole continent.  etc. etc.  Miller and Hayes, A history of ancient Israel and Judah, talks about many of these names. --Macrakis (talk) 22:25, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sanity please! 

message: I deleted the below section for two reason. First, it was placed in the section titled Physical Geography, though neither paragraph discusses physical georgraphy. Second, there first paragraph is very unclear, I can't figure out what it is saying or how that is relevant or related to anything in the article. 
Modern published sources, including in academic literature on ancient history, often misuse the Levant as a Eurocentric geo-political region, in the same way that Middle East is used to refer to historical periods prior to the Modern period. Doing so they include in the region modern Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Israel and the Palestinian territories, none of which existed when the term came into use.
Sometimes the term is also equated to the historic area called Syria or Greater Syria which is predominantly continental. Occasionally, even peripheral regions of Cyprus, Sinai and Iraq are included.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Agenbite (talk • contribs) 16:10, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deletion - Physical Geography 

message: The spanish use the term Levante for the eastern part of spain, region around Barcelona.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.221.223.50 (talk) 19:39, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spain 

message: Excerpt from the paragraph above: "borrowed from the French levant 'rising', that is, the point where the sun rises" sure sounds like a "Eurocentric" view when the term was created, so please state the NAME of any scholars claiming this is a "misuse" & note that it's their OPINION that these other scholars, below, are "misusing" the term. Thank you!—Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.155.208.138 (talk) 2011-05-03T23:15:41 (I moved this comment from the article to this talk page. —C45207 | Talk 23:06, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with IP contributor: the section deals with an obscure and off-topic aspect of the Levant region and does not add to the reader's understanding of it.—Biosketch (talk) 03:03, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Misuse in academia section contains original research? 

message: I have tagged the article as having "Multiple issues".  The current article is badly organized, has content that is not relevant, and has considerable amounts of original research.  I have tried to remove the most egregious irrelevancies and OR, but there is still a lot left.  --Macrakis (talk) 03:26, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Multiple issues

message: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Stamp_French_PO_Turkish_1903_30c.jpg (see French post offices in the Ottoman Empire ) Böri (talk) 09:50, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Levant stamps 

message: Correct me if I am wrong, but "Levant" seems very rarely used in N. America. "Middle East" is more commonly used. Seems as backwards as "oriental". Kortoso (talk) 20:37, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: North America is not the world – this is the English Wikipedia, not the American English Wikipedia. Also, Levant remains in common use in academia. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 21:11, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archaic term 

message: This article is missing discussion of current political usage of the term.-71.174.178.251 (talk) 11:09, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Some mention of ISIS (Islamic State in Iraq and Syria), also called ISIL (Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant) should be made. 71.191.237.16 (talk) 20:38, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I came here to make the same request. Some section defining what "Levant" means in the context of ISIL would be very helpful. --skeptical scientist (talk) 16:35, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  I see no need. We don't mention every organization that uses the term "Levant". Especially since I see no indication they use the word in any special way. Debresser (talk) 21:35, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  This is all very nice, however it defies logic. From the article "ISIL has adopted the term "Levant" within the English translation of their self-designation.[citation needed]" This needs to be substantiated with reference or citation, because I highly doubt that Daesh/ISIS/The Islamic state in Iraq and Syria/The Islamic State in Iraq and al-Shām/ or whatever you wish to call them would use the term "Levant" simply because it is the word used by the hated Franks/Crusaders/West/Christians/Infidels. This is a term used by only the US State Department and many devout Muslims, even those who would oppose the Islamic State would find, if not outright offensive, mildly irritating. And if you think that is untrue, consider that before the changed their name and announced the Islamic state, the US State State Department gave the the title of al-Qaeda in Iraq in Mesopotamia (The US Military and they themselves used the title al-Qaeda in Iraq.) The whole "Levant" and "Mesopotamia', neither word Islamic Fundamentalist would ever use, smack of the whole "We like to use big words of Obscure meanings to show how photosynthesis we are." 108.241.122.20 (talk) 03:42, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  current political usage 

message: In Oxford Encyclopedia of Ancient Greece and Rome there is a sentence that reads "[the countries] of Syria-Palestine and Egypt, occupied by the Muslims and visited by Christian merchants." When I read the word "occupied" in this sentence I did not think of military occupation. What is meant is simply that these countries had a Muslim population, not Christian. The recent edit in the article is not as clear. It gives the false impression that these countries were not Muslim but under Muslim control, which is not the case.--HD86 (talk) 22:20, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I had the same thought.  I'm changing it. Zerotalk 04:58, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Muslim occupation of Syria-Palestine and Egypt 

message: The article says "...Italian Levante, meaning "rising", implying the rising of the sun in the east [...] The western counterpart [is] Ponente in Italian, meaning 'west, where the sun sets'."
"Levante" and "Ponente" are poetic Italian terms for the east and the west, and their literal meanings are "rising" and "setting" (of the sun). The article inconsistently uses the literal translation for one word ("rising") and the actual translation for the other ("west"). Perhaps giving both the literal and actual translations can be given for both words, changing the sources if necessary. — 91.238.123.116 (talk) 15:06, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Consistency of translations 

message: As numerous comments above attest, Mashriq is a wider term than Levant, so shouldn't be used as a translation in our article. There are sources attached to the translation, but I can't verify them. Does anyone object if this is removed? 
I think we should keep the sentence that states that the etymology of the terms are equivalent, but not show them as translations since their usage is different. Oncenawhile (talk) 06:45, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mashriq 

message: Isn't that ISIS?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.62.69.101 (talk) 05:32, 27 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  ISIS 

message: I see no reference to levant being used to refer to the eastern-Mediterranean coast of Spain. Obviously this usage is not as common as the Near Eastern original, but archeologists certainly use it. I came for the origin of the word, and noticed the failure to include this usage. 
MarkinBoston (talk) 15:55, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Please provide a source, and then it can be added to the article. Debresser (talk) 16:58, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you sure they talk of the "Levant" and not of the "Levante"? I'll add the latter as a "See also". --Macrakis (talk) 17:07, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spanish Levant?  

message: A recent edit added the text "The term Levant to designate the Eastern part of the Mediterranean with the adjacent islands and countries has progressively fallen into disuse during the 20th century and is now almost exclusively used in a historical context.", citing three dictionaries which call the term "archaic", "formerly used", and "vielli". The dictionary entries actually do not say anything about the term "progressively falling into disuse", but rather only report their judgement about its current usage. And in fact, it is not true that the term has progressively fallen into disuse during the 20th century: Google Ngrams shows that after a period of popularity from 1720-1820 or so, usage dropped by about 1870, and has fallen only slightly since then (about 15% down since the 1870s). Ngrams can even give us a sense of the common uses: "Levantine coast" and "southern Levant" (geographical references) are up considerably, while Levantine countries (political?) is down. Though it is certainly true that "Levant(ine)" is used heavily in historical contexts, it is also used for contemporary culture (e.g., cuisine, culture, ...), not just history. --Macrakis (talk) 17:19, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: It is strange that emotional attachment you seem to show for the words Levant and Levantine. AFAIC, when I recently read this article, I felt that it should be clearly stated that The Levant, as a descriptor of the Eastern Mediterranean lands of today has fallen into disuse. I went about checking 2 leading English-language dictionaries/encyclopedias and THE leading French-language dictionary, all three say that the term is outmoded ("archaic", "formerly used", "vieilli"). The Robert adds that nowadays we will rather say Near East, Middle East ("on dit plutôt de nos jours Proche-Orient, Moyen-Orient"). You look at that with suspicion then come up this "Google Ngrams", whatever that is, and interpret it in your own way. Sorry, but I will stick to my three dictionaries. And write what you want since you own the article.--Lubiesque (talk) 02:41, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Current status of term

message: I feel like Iraq should be moved to the broader definition instead of the regular definition, Iraq is only regarded as Levantine by western analysts and has both historically and in modern times been considered its own mesopotamian region  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.115.75.143 (talk) 22:37, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting. Leo1pard (talk) 05:32, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  I second this; Iraq isn't included in any narrow definition of the Levant that I've ever used or seen. The broader definition seems like a much better place for it. Maybe someone could find some sources for this particular inclusion? PhainetaiMoi (talk) 22:27, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Iraq? 

message: Leo1pard (talk) 05:31, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page views 

message: Change "Spanish" to "Castellano". "Catalan" and "Castellano", both are Spanish Languages, like Vasco and Gallego which are Spanish too. Jobjh (talk) 12:12, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 21:07, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 1 May 2018 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
* 
Participate in the deletion discussion at the . —Community Tech bot (talk) 15:52, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion 

message: The language list in the infobox currently lists Domari, spoken by approximately 281,670 (2015) worldwide, as a language spoken in the Levant region. The Greek language, which is spoken by around 679,883 (2011) people in Cyprus hasn't been listed. Shall we add Greek to the list?  nasvks (talk)  10:41, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds very reasonable to me. “WarKosign” 13:21, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Great! Done.  nasvks (talk)  17:04, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request to add Greek to language list 

message: What is the source used by the map maker? Because "Levantine Bedawi" Arabic is painted over a largely desolated and uninhabited region of Jordan. See the population distribution here: 
https://books.openedition.org/ifpo/5021
I suggest using the map in the Levantine Arabic article.
Julia Domna Ba'al (talk) 10:33, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Levantine Arabic Map 

message: The map in the Infobox seems to be based on an older map template. The boundaries are imprecise and the Palestinian territories appear to have disappeared into either Israel or Jordan.
I don't have any ability with graphics but it would be great if someone who does could make an updated version based on the latest. For comparison, File:Greater Middle East (orthographic projection).svg RoanokeVirginia (talk) 20:44, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Map in Infobox 

message: Remove Iraq from the broad definition section into the narrow definition section.
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/where-is-the-levant.html SickNC (talk) 20:19, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done. The article text discusses this, Iraq isn't always included. It is in between narrow and broader. --Mvqr (talk) 15:33, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 17 August 2022 

message: This means “urban” “liveable” areas that are connected to Mediterranean trade. 2607:FEA8:205F:98F0:2D4F:75A7:B4DE:817A (talk) 22:50, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Levantine : proposed definition  

message: Add the following link - https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/where-is-the-levant.html - as a citation for "
Some communities and populations speak Aramaic, Greek, Armenian, Circassian, French, Russian, or English." LoudPorcupine797 (talk) 23:08, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: not a high-quality reference. Walt Yoder (talk) 23:41, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 20 July 2023 

message: Israel should be removed from this region 2600:100F:A020:473B:3019:ED8A:F5D8:F766 (talk) 07:06, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  5 countries of the Levantine region 

message: Cyprus isn’t considered part of the Levant in modern-day, but Mediterranean. Jordan, Syria, Palestine, Lebanon, ‘Israel’ (because of its geography, not culture) and very minor regions of Iraq are considered Levantine. 207.161.54.17 (talk) 21:54, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Levantine consideration 

message: Palestine was never a country and is still not one. Your page is incorrect in listing it as such. 128.92.213.35 (talk) 08:06, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: A country it is, a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 09:42, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

text: It's ISO 3166-2:PS. Sean.hoyland (talk) 09:57, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 11 February 2024 

message: I believe Cyprus is not considered part of the Levant, at least not in the strictest (modern) sense, only in the wider sense. The references do not support this. It is mostly considered part of the Levant in British Archaeology. kupirijo (talk) 09:54, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cyprus in the Levant (in the strictest sense) 

message: In the article regarding The Levant please change "the Palestinian territories" to "Palestine" and "Isreal" to "The Occupied Territories of Palestine" 2601:405:4881:6010:A5CD:A5D3:5437:CC2C (talk) 20:40, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the  template. RudolfRed (talk) 02:04, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

text: What the heck is Isreal? Dimadick (talk) 16:54, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 31 March 2024