Talk:Play-by-post role-playing game

message: I am posting a link here to a resource for Mediawiki-Wiki-based Roleplaying.  I searched for examples when trying to set up this wiki, and I was unable to find anything that was really helpful.  I think it would be helpful to people setting up a game, especially new wiki users, if they could see a site where a lot of effort has been put into the wiki-side of Play-by-Wiki, and basically be able to copy wiki-code, the wiki's skin, page formatting, and various ideas from it.  It is a wiki that matured and grew over two years.
For example, some of the character sheets and the council records are multi-page, and linked together with template based tabs - and done so in an easier to understand way than the example used on wikipedia.  
The posting of this link is not an attempt to gain new players, as the game has ended, nor is it an attempt to gain visitors.  The wiki was originally hosted by EditThis, but was later acquired by Wikia due to the volume of posting.  The game uses the Ars Magica system, which is heavy on administration and record keeping, so has a variety of such pages.  In addition, the site features a lot of historical and geographical information.
Anyway, given the above explanation, I hope that this will not be deleted on a whim.  It is more important that resources be found and provided for PbW than PbM, due to the added difficulties present, like how-to-use a wiki, or things more unique to PbW, like  etiquette/rules regarding posting at multiple points on the same page in the same edit.
http://arsmagica.wikia.com 
----
I don't know if anyone else would be up to it, but I think it would be lovely if Play-by-Post gaming could become more than a mere stub. 
Would anyone be interested in writing up a whole article on play-by-post gaming, perhaps even try and collate a history for it, and highlight some examples of the various genres play-by-post gaming has seen? - kimmetje
I think compiling a history of the form might be a more daunting task than any of us could imagine..perhaps a community effort would be best.
It would indeed be a great idea to do this and indeed, perhaps organising a history of pbp-gaming is harder than it looks. But certainly there is a lot more that could be said than what is being said currently! - kimmetje
Potential source of problem. The current play-by-post gaming page seems almost exactly like its http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_text_based_role_playing_game counterpart. Might need to be discussed - kimmetje.
:Not "exactly like" (the content of the two are not at all similar), but I suggest that the two be merged. jglc | t | c 14:01, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: A Play-by-Wiki Resource

message: The deffinition of this term seems to be the same as an older entry called OTBRPG. Both terms seem to have a small following however (though most players seem to have no real term for it)
Well, if we're being technical, Alleria, Overseas, and a few others started out by calling the process FFRPG/Free-Form RPG. I think there's a semantic difference in that "Play by Post" could imply simply the media -- Webboards -- much as "Play by Email" denotes Email, where as FFRPG implies the style of play used. I'm not familiar with OTBRPG, but will read up on it presently.
: What would you suggest? I know that I personally would like to see articles divided by gaming "platform." For example, play by email (PbEM), play by post (PBP), play by chat (although this could be further divided into MUDs/MUs/IRC/etc). Or perhaps an all encompassing "roleplaying online" article with all of the different methods of playing listed. I personally feel that the OTBRPG article is too general and the acronym is a mouthful (and for some reason the "Common/Basic Rules and Etiquette" make my fingers itch to change them). I've never even used the term OTBRPG in all my time as a collaborative writer (the first time I came across it was here on Wikipedia). I know that about five years ago, at least in my "circle of online roleplaying" it was also a common practice to call PBP games "online simulations," or simply "sim games," because we simulated life with the characters we created. With the introduction of The Sims online PC game though, that came to a screeching stop.
:: Perhaps if PBP could be more thoroughly explained? I have just finnished revamping the fanboy-raped article that was OTBRPG and hope to continue to improve it. "Common rules and etiquette" (Admittedly, my own creation and mistake) will not likely be appearing in that article again. I can't say I agree with your idea of articles divided by gaming "platform." As in the end, it's all really just the same activity. To use a metaphore, it seems to me like creating seperate articles for speach depending on weather it was face to face or over a telephone. What benifits would multiple articles bring? In the end, there are so many different words for it (OTB, PBP, etc) and there are probably a dozen more phrases that neither of us have ever heard of. The current revision of OTBRPG states the basic criteria for a game to be considered an OTBRPG. As you seem to be qutie well versed in PBP gaming, would you mind looking at my article and telling me if they are the same, or if there is a difference?
:: Dividing by platform is a bad idea for similar platforms. Asynchronous play is pretty much asynchronous play, outside of the technical details of message transport - play by forum is not so different from play by mailing list is not so different from play by newsgroup (and what are you going to do with sites that support access to the same messages from multiple platform types?) I'd assume play by IRC is sufficiently similar to play by IM to class them together, but I'm less familiar with that sort of gaming. 207.178.110.185 21:50, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  I'd like to note.... 

message: Perhaps we need to figure out all of who would be interested in contributing to a revamp of the current article and then take it to e-mail. I don't know about you all, but I'm not all that addicted to Wikipedia and don't come here often. I think this and the related articles need to be revisited and a framework needs to be developed. We need to approach this particular play-by-post article - with greater objectivity and greater depth. 
On the other hand, I'm sure it's quite useful for passer-bys to get an example of the style of gaming in action. I thus think it would also be good if we somehow expanded on all the different examples of play-by-post games. It would much more useful to get a good description of the games that are presented in this content item and explain how they do what they do? 
Just some thoughts 
(Kimmetje 10:50, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Excellent ideas abound... 

message: Whilst I am happy to see that there are more links around. I'm also noticing some of these links are coming from sites with very little activity - to none at all - I am of the opinion the links mentioned should feature only the largest play-by-post games in a given genre. 
What are your opinions?
--Kimmetje 19:42, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dealing with the proliferation of Links 

message: Added back in 'Empire of Ashes': it's pretty active IMO but more importantly represents a 'straight' Historical RPG without fantasy elements - a genre otherwise unrepresented in the links. I'll take it out though if people object. Ross Nolan 16:09, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ashes of Empires

message: As you mentioned it's a fairly unrepresented genre! Glad you know of some. Maybe there needs to be a criteria a play-by-post game needs to meet before being included in this list. All others could go in a list of "Other play-by-post games" whilst the ones meeting the criteria can go under "Major play-by-post games" or something to that effect. 
--Kimmetje 19:42, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Genre

message: Hey Maeve, Kimm and others active here. I agree the links section got totally out of hand. Deleting them all was probably the best thing to do and we need a criteria to keep it clean. Unfortunately what constitutes a "major" pbp site is a little subjective and leaves the smaller ones (er... like mine) out of the loop. I know this isn't supposed to be a way to advertize but lets face it, that's what it's being used for, even by the big guys.
My suggestion is to only allow portals, not individual PbP boards in the external links section. The major sites have their own wikipedia articles anyway, and unless the number of those grows too large we can leave those linked under "related" not "external" links. If you know of a good portal (there are so very few good ones) put it up here. 
Also, at the very least, make sure there is no subjective promotional talk like "friendly, growing, wonderful RP site!" anywhere. --Frugen 15:50, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  More on External Links 

message: So, how about using this link: (edited out)
:Wow. Consider yourself reported for abuse. IP: 213.48.73.94 I removed the link.
::Wow? If you say that you're reporting me you could at least mention the reason.
::Frugen said: "My suggestion is to only allow portals, not individual PbP boards in the external links section."
::And I kindly provided him with a link to a site listing various PbP games. That you can avoid direct advertising and in my opinion it would be more fair.
I hesitate to remove the external links to pbp forums until someone else also agrees that external links should only be a list of links to directories or portals. I will wait a week or two and if there's no objections just take them down. 
This means removing anything at all in external links (not the 'related links' to other wikipedia articles) that lead to game forums. Things like Pbem2.com, playbywiki.com, rpgee.com, service providers and that kind of stuff. 
Oh yeah, and whoever went and edited up the definition by taking out the repeated definition of message board roleplaying, thanks. I meant to do that eventually. The definition looks much better now, if shorter. --Frugen 02:00, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I have this suggestion. Maybe you could delete it, but include a link to one or more sites that list various PbP message boards. This way you would theoretically avoid using this page for advertisements, yet still give the readers some easy place to go if they are interested in this system. The message boards on these pages are often ranked by users rating etc. and so the major websites usually happen to be at top as well. I would post a link, but for some odd reason the link here was deleted with someone saying that I'm being reported. So, just tell me if this interests you and I can post the link again (because I seriously see nothing wrong with it). Ahemait 11:09, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Wow. That was blunt, but I have to agree that we can't let the list contain individual websites or it will just become what it was before all the editing. It gets bloated with ads in no time. ANyway, I added RPG Gateway to the list. It's a big directory, I'm not sure why it wasn't there before. --Frugen 08:24, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: More on links

message: I just read the conversation and I don't understand the glorification of directories/portals over popular pbp examples themselves. Are directories/portals not just a relocation of hand-edit link inclusions that we frown upon so much here? Now we have external link inclusions that are far less relevant and exemplary than the inclusion of independent pbp communities that make good examples of the pbp process we're trying to put forth in this article. Let's even analyze the links so far. 
*RPG-Directory is a message board with a directory as only one of its message board categories. To include your forum in the directory, you must make 15 posts in their community and provide a reciprocating link to their forumhome. The majority of their directory links go to inactive, free-hosted pbp communities. I'm not suggesting that RPG-Directory should be removed from the list, but I'd rather judge an external link's relevance based on a community in its entirety, not on the precedent set in this discussion that glorifies human-edited directories.
*RoleplayGateway Directory requires you to register an account to manually submit your own link to their directory. I find it more relevant to link to Roleplay Gateway itself for anyone reading this article, as it's one of the most active pbp communities I can find on Google. I don't understand how a directory of low-activity communities is more acceptable than linking to one of the bigger players in the pbp roleplay field.
*pbem2 is inactive, as displayed by its front-page statistics. I'm removing it.
*Ongoing Worlds seems to be a newer development, or perhaps just retooled, but I think it's a clean, navigable example of pbp roleplaying even if it has low activity. At least in the scope of the current external links arrangement.
*FAQ on pbem games is a well-written and relevant explanation of pbem gaming.
*pbemplayers looks like a good example of the pbem niche.
I'll add Roleplaying Guild for its similar merits to Roleplay Gateway, but I'd still like to encourage an external link precedent of relevant examples to the article rather than the directory/portal suggestion thrown around in 2006 (conversation above).
Fozbert (talk) 04:04, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Sites

message: I think some explanation should be described in the article about how so many play-by-post role-playing games require applications. What is the point of applications? Can't members just role-play freely? Can't members just role-play as a guest? Can't members all just share the role of one character and play him or her? That would be my style of role-playing. Too much characters can make a role-play into a confusing soap opera. 76.192.142.216 (talk) 21:19, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Quite a few games do not require applications at all. Generally these are referred to as "free-form" play-by-post games. There are general rules and guidelines, but pretty much everything is left up to the player to decide. The games that do have applications generally have them for a few reasons. (1) If the game is set in a completely original setting, then usually it is mandatory for players to go through an acceptance process in order to ensure that their character fits into the theme of the game. (2) To keep things organized. By having a character roster and keeping applications, the game itself can be much more organized (activity can be easily measured as well). (3) Some sites only allow "quality" writers into their game, and applications are a way to decide who gets to play and who doesn't. (4) Elitism, haha. There are other reasons, but I find that these are the most common. I do quite like the idea of sharing characters though. We share a few characters amongst players at a site I'm at. Kakos (talk) 23:30, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Reason for Applications?

message: I hear some of the first PBP happened on ExecPC...Scribblecloud (talk) 06:01, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: PBP origin

message: I feel like the section on message board role-playing is unclear in that it makes it sound as though all message board role-playing requires a DM and that combat is a consistent element, when in my extensive history of PBP role-playing I've never encountered either.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.118.111.179 (talk) 10:02, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It does seem unclear to me as well. I'm working to clarify this, and to remove some redundancy. Right now the article mentions that a game can be "diceless" twice - once under the "format" header and once under the "Message-board role-playing" header. Since email, chat, and message boards can all be either diceless or rely on dice(or other randomising tools) I'm going to move the concept of diceless vs chance based RP under the format header. Or we can create a new header for "rules". --Frugen (talk) 15:36, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Message board role-playing unclear?

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thread_title: File:We Are Aliens.png Nominated for Deletion

message: I have gone through and made changes discussed throughout this talk page, and focused largely on changing the tone of the article with an emphasis on the message-board section. Feedback would be appreciated. This is a first draft and I know it's not perfect. I'll go over it again after the following...
I'd like to get a second opinion on how this article can be better structured. I'd like to separate the "rules" from the "mediums" more clearly. Currently a bunch of rules about combat are contained under the "message-board" header, but these rules can be applied to anything from email to chat. I'm proposing changing the header of "varieites" to "mediums" and adding a new sub-header at the top for "rules" under "format". In other words, freeform vs diceless, moderated vs unmoderated, etc, would all be under "format/rules". Opinions? --Frugen (talk) 17:06, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Latest Revision

message: I came across the Simming article from a proposed merge it had with the Online text-based role-playing game article.  From reading about Simming, to reading about Play-by-post games, I'm seeing that they are same concept except that they use different terminology to describe things.
Basically:
*both take place on the same medium (forums, chat rooms, email, etc.)
*both result in the same style of play
*both deal with fictional worlds as a basis
I'm seeing the two current articles basically describe the same thing (in large, uncited paragraphs) and suggest we merge Simming into this article, Play-by-post role-playing game. --DarkCrowCaw 18:56, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, I made a request for review on WP:RPG. I can confirm that they do refer to the same practice and that in the years I've been involved with such communities, the only difference is the name. "Simming" tends to be what the sci-fi community calls it, but not always. Both are just cooperative fiction/roleplaying on forums/email/chat. Directories like dmoz don't make this distinction. --Frugen (talk) 15:40, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge with [[Simming]] 

message: --Frugen (talk) 17:23, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger of [[simming]] and [[Play-by-post_role-playing_game]] 

message: I'm not sure about the value of listing Google documents along with the other mediums for role-playing. Are there any sites dedicated to this so we can see examples and a community that does it? Since rp can take place over any conceivable medium of communication, listing all of them is a bad idea. Perhaps an "other" category which lists google docs, along with sites that have jury-rigged their own solutions? --Frugen (talk) 03:38, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Role-playing google documents? 

message: There is a play-by-post wiki that is generating a lot of controversy. http://www.pbemplayers.com/articles/other-articles/the-wrong-direction-for-simenc RPlaybyPost (talk) 12:10, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting link. I'm not sure The Simming Leage/SimEnc meets notability/importance to get mention. They're one segment of a very fragmented community, but this article does a good job of being general. If SimEnc met notability, it could get its own page, but I'm not sure it does (and it's hard to quantify that without membership counts or search/user statistics). I think PBEM Players could get a link as a resource in the PBEM section or at the bottom though.  --Frugen (talk) 04:57, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  The Simming League/SimEnc wiki is dead. --Martin Kerr (talk) 02:27, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Play by Post Wiki 

message: User:MrOllie, thank you for your interest in this article. However, please stop overwriting my changes with reverts to delete links. If you think links should be deleted, pls discuss them here instead. Thank you! --Cards Daily (talk) 18:03, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I alphabetized them. --Cards Daily (talk) 18:06, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

text: As a note to anyone adding new links: the links should be to sites about role-playing games not role-playing games themselves. --Cards Daily (talk) 18:09, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Please explain how the links you are re-adding meet our linking guidelines. - MrOllie (talk) 13:43, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I did not add the links. You deleted them. But since you asked, per Wikipedia:External links the links are to professional websites that provide amplifying information for a better understanding of the topic that cannot be added to the body of the article: They are accessible, in context, properly functioning and not redundant to content in the article. These links would be inappropriate in the body of the article, but belong in the external links section. --Cards Daily (talk) 13:52, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: By readding them you are taking on responsibility for them. Please explain more. How is, for example, outpost42news.com, which is a satirical new website, a source of amplifying information for better understanding? - MrOllie (talk) 13:56, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I respect what your trying to do in trying to keep things clean but I think your making a mistake here. The two sites question are Outpost42 News and Valucre Character Creation Guide. Valucre helps understand inner culture and how people create and develop characters in play-by-post role-playing. Outpost42 helps understand outer culture and how different groups fit together and are seen by each other. Both are helpful in understanding to people who may not be familiar with play-by-post but their content shouldn't be in the body of the article. --Cards Daily (talk) 14:09, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you please point to the actual content on those pages that would explain such things to someone unfamiliar to the topic? Because it looks a lot to me like a page full of bad jokes (we're not going to add an external link to The Onion to our article on News) and a game-specific character generation guide. Even earlier in this section you say we shouldn't be linking individual games, so I'm really at a loss on that one. - MrOllie (talk) 14:13, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

text: Valucre Character Guide is on a specific game yes but it's general enough to broadly apply accross many genres. It's the best and most concise guide I'm aware of for a quick read from people who are new to play-by-post. I don't think Play-by-post is comparable to the news in general. There is no actual central news for play-by-post. Outpost42 News is a broad representation of of the entire landscape. --Cards Daily (talk) 14:23, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reverts 

message: I want top make this article better and include sources, but some people have other ideas. The only sources that exist about this type of role play are from recognized community experts. There's not going to be anything from news sources or scientific journals.--RPbPost (talk) 15:12, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: If the only sources that exist for a given bit of information are unreliable blogs, then per WP:V and WP:UNDUE we should leave that information out of the article. - MrOllie (talk) 15:14, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

text: You're not understanding the guidelines. WP:ABOUTSELF applies if we were using a person's blog as a source on an article about that person. It can only apply on biographies or articles about organizations. If you really think the article should be deleted, see WP:AFD, but be sure to look at WP:POINT first. Your 'only sources that exist' argument doesn't really hold water, though. We already have a couple of reliable sources cited in the article. - MrOllie (talk) 15:21, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

text: Is it your position that the Ito et al. source isn't reliable? Or have you not read the article closely enough to notice the existing References section? - MrOllie (talk) 15:34, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

text: This article was worse in the past as a result of rules not being followed very well. I think it would be more productive to spend time trying to find sources than ask broadly for wikipedia guidelines to be ignored. Frugen (talk) 23:19, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Why bother when the overlord will delete any sources added? --Cards Daily (talk) 16:44, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Improvement