Talk:Pascal's wager/Archive 3

message: those who choose to believe in, say, scientific theories that may contradict scripture may be able to discover things and accomplish things the believer could not
The above is not a useful objection, as I am quite certain that no such "scientific theories contridicting scripture" can be produced, nor can the "discoveries and accomplishments" resulting from them be documented. If you are of the POV that they can, this is still not the place for such musings, which would be a great deal more relevent in arguments against the existence of God, or perhaps published in any number of scientific journals. Needless to say such documentation would be rather earth shattering, assuming it does not require a leap of faith ;) Sam Spade 07:28, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know what the original author had in mind, but the first thing that comes to mind is the progress in gene therapy due to the evolutionary biology and genetics approach, an approach taken in contradiction to the first chapter of Genesis. mydogategodshat 07:36, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)

text: So it is only an appearent contradiction in your view. I will make that ammendment to comply with your views and replace the sentence. mydogategodshat 21:55, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)

text: Yet the Goat-related argument seems important to include in some form. I'll consider this tomorrow. Dan 08:58, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Moved from article

message: I find this edit particularly amusing, but I must point out that Hinduism is at its very core an all embracing religion. The quote "all paths lead to God" is a particularly useful one when considering the theoretical punishments a lesser hindu diety might dish out when punishing a believer in the Christian God (which is nearly universally seen by Hindu's as equivilent to Brahman). Sam Spade 07:54, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: oh... I see the Hindu gods are suggested to be punishing Christians for their failure to believe in norse gods? LOL! As silly as that is, I find it less objectionable than what I had thought it read, and can't really say that would be innaccurate... rather an odd scenario tho, and not a particularly convincing dispute of Pascals wager ;) Sam Spade 07:56, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Nothing that complex. By switching it from Norse gods to Hindu gods, I was trying to NPOV it. The use of Norse gods trivialises the argument because almost nobody today believes in them. By switching to a panthion that has hundred of millions of believers, it portrays the arguement fairly. mydogategodshat 21:51, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, it presented an innaccuracy, as I claified above. I have no removed any specific mention of particular gods, leaving that open to the reader to interpret. Sam Spade 02:48, 15 Feb 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Hindu gods

message: Pascals wager does not involve faith, but rather belief, in God. These are differning concepts, and so I removed reference to faith. Sam Spade 12:30, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Faith

message: I switched monotheistic god to Judio Christian God because this is clearly what Pascal is talking about, He is not talking about all monotheistic gods. He is talking about the God of the Bible, the one that punishes you with an eternity in hell, or rewards you with an eternity in heaven. This Judio Christian reward and punishment scheme is central to Pascal argument and it shouldn't be obsured by pretending that it applies to other monothiestic systems, ones that do not accept the concepts of eternal punishments or rewards. mydogategodshat 22:15, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Pascal's intent is nearly irrelevent to how people might utilize his theory. You beg the question, what montheistic religion does not incorperate the concept of rewards and punishments? I can think of none. Actually, I can't think of any religion that doesn't incorperate rewards and punishments. The word "eternal" is best left out, as it is simply a vaguery in matters of metaphysics, most believers seeing time as something God (and generally the deceased) are outside of. Sam Spade 02:50, 15 Feb 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: If, as the article says, Judaism does not require you to have faith in order to get the reward, then "abrahamic religions" makes less sense here. And Pascal definitely meant his God. I've kept your line about similar belief systems, as that seems like a good compromise. Oh, and see my personal talk page for more on the Goatee debate. Dan 07:15, 16 Feb 2004 (UTC)

text: I just read "the 7 laws" on some guy's webpage, and although they prohibit "blasphemy", they don't explicitly forbid atheism. So it looks like you don't need faith to get into the Jewish heaven. Did I miss something? How do people who hold this belief define "non-Jew"? Dan 17:43, 19 Feb 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Judio Christian God

message: I just wrote this article. You may also look here B'nai Noach. Atheism is blasphemy, or a curse against God, by most accounts. I don't see how this is particularly relevent here, but have at it. Sam Spade 06:51, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Noachide Laws]] 

message: "In his own time, Pascal was severely criticized by Voltaire."
I'm not inclined to edit this remark, but it does seem a bit silly and I would like its author to explain it to me if possible.  
Pascal died in 1662.  Voltaire wasn't born until more than 30 years later, and the remarks on Pascal you probably have in mind appeared in 1733.  So what is the definition of "his own time" implied in this remark?  It's pretty elastic, no?  
Also, if we are going to put a sentence like this in the entry for everybody Voltaire ever criticized, "In his own time or sometime thereafter, X was severely criticized by Voltaire" than we are going to be very busy before that task is complete!
:Be bold in updating pages. I've removed the ambiguity of the sentence; the only thing it is really useful for is as a placeholder for a more detailed description of Voltaire's criticism - if it is indeed original and interesting (another ambiguous word ;). - snoyes 17:20, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pascal and Voltaire