Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Education in Canada/Archive2

message: Note that the proposed project changes were moved into place tonight.  This is the talk page for the new project.  The old project has been archived here, and the old talk page has been archived here.  I've copied over the last few active topics from the old page.  --Stephane Charette 05:59, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Archive

message: I re-wrote a large part of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Education in Canada page.  For the past few months, we've been using the discussion page to communicate and the main project page has been more-or-less ignored.  I think it is time the page was updated to reflect some of the new ways we're currently looking at the school and school board articles.
Please have a look at it here:  Wikipedia:WikiProject Education in Canada/Revised.
I don't expect it to be perfect right off the bat.  But what I'd like to do, if enough people are OK with it as a starting point, is to archive the current existing Education in Canada page, and then replace it with the revised version.  At the same time, I'd also archive the discussion page and start a new one.  Nothing gets deleted during the archive -- we'd still have access to any old discussion should we need to look something up.
Let me know what you think.  --Stephane Charette 06:42, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposal

message: :I like what Wikipedia:WikiProject Education in Canada/Revised#Categories says.  The one part that I'm not clear on is the concept of "owning" a task.  What's that mean?  For instance "AB schools" is listed, but I can't see how one person can "own" that task.  --Rob 08:04, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You are correct, an entire province is large to have as a task.  However, at the moment we only have coverage for 3 provinces and 0 territories according to the users I know about.  So the tasks simply highlight some glaring holes.  I could have broken them down to specific school boards for example, but I thought it was unecessary to do so since no-one is even available on a province-wide scale.  If someone wants to step up and take a chunk of Alberta, then we'd modify the task to indicate which part(s) are still left. --Stephane Charette 08:20, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Categories and tasks

message: I don't think we need to de-emphasize the universities and colleges. -- Usgnus 18:21, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In regards to 'de-emphasize the univesities and colleges', I'm not sure what else to do.  We don't have any suggestions as to how to format university articles, or templates to use, or how to break it down into manageable articles, etc...  Note that there is a university and college project, which does deal with all of this stuff.  This is why I wanted to distance ourselfs somewhat from C & U. --Stephane Charette 22:44, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Should have added the link to it:  Wikipedia:WikiProject Universities, where the title states:  WikiProject Universities is aims to standardize coverage of Universities and colleges. --Stephane Charette 22:56, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think Canadian Universities and Colleges fall under this project. It is Education. Ardenn 18:43, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, it is education; however, what should we do about it?  We could add a "college" and "university" (or "college & university"?) section to the new project, but what will we put in it?  None of the templates apply to C&U except for , and this is already documented in the new proposal.  None of the categories we have are for colleges or universities.  The only list we have for C&U is called List of colleges in Ontario, and that is also already documented in the new proposal.  This is why I was suggesting that Wikipedia:WikiProject Universities may be a better place to discuss C&U.  --Stephane Charette 19:24, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Colleges and universities

message: The statement "all schools should have a navigation bar linking together schools from the same school district" is good advice only for smaller school districts.  This would become unweildy and unmaintable for larger districts.  For example the 200 schools at the Calgary Board of Education was to big (in my opinion) to have in the main article, let alone, to show at the bottom of every school for navigation.  Also, I disagree that such navigation is useful.  Two schools in the same district may be a great distance from each other, but a city may have many cases of adjacent schools from the different districts (e.g. separate/public).  --Rob 18:34, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmmm.  Didn't know we had such large school districts!  Ok, how about we reword it to indicate a preference for the navboxes when applicable, and then can list exception cases where that doesn't work and possible solutions.  --Stephane Charette 22:44, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  That sounds fine.  BTW, TDSB has 558, so the CBE is not that big.  --Rob 23:19, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Navboxes

message: How do we decide if and when we go ahead with this new proposal?  (BTW, thanks to everyone who has commented so far!)  Are there objections to having this proposal be the new project page?  If so, please raise a new subsection here so it can be discussed, and hopefully addressed.  If there are no big objections, when would people be OK with me archiving the current project page and the talk page?  --Stephane Charette 02:23, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Anytime is fine with me. -- Usgnus 19:11, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Time to make the shift?

message: on a completely different tangent...any1 know the copyright laws/procedures for uploading pictures belonging to the school but approved by a teacher/the administration for encyclepedic purposes? because i could prob get some pics of my school off the media arts teacher....thx for answering 
zeChinaman 21:18, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wouldn't it be easier to simply take a new picture of the school with a digital camera that you or a friend owns?  Versus trying to find the forms and seek approval for a picture that someone else has taken?  If you insist it has to be their picture you want, then see WP:BRP.  --Stephane Charette 21:38, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Copyright and images

message: *Has there been a discussion in the past about the inclusion of clubs and extracurricular activities on High School and Elementary School pages? For example, are just general lists of all the clubs and teams at a school permissible? It seems a bit unwieldy and unnecessary... - pm_shef 00:26, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *I wouldn't bother putting a list of clubs or sport teams into stub articles.  It look forced.  For articles that are well fleshed-out, adding list of clubs and teams can easily be made to look nice, and relatively easy to fit into the flow of any article.  --Stephane Charette 01:16, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

text: *I've seen some edits (presumably from students) including their clubs and teams in the school distriptions. Example: Gordon Greenwood Elementary School Since many of the entries are still very minimal - I wouldn't want to discourage the contributions. Wakemp 01:12, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *I'm specifically worried about the list at Thornhill Secondary School. I've trimmed it down a couple times, but I'm not sure if even in its' present form its still too unwiedly. It seems to me as if its a bit unnecessary.... - pm_shef 01:25, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clubs and Extracurriculars 

message: I've tried various different ways to cite sources over the past few months, and haven't especially liked any of the systems we have available to us.  Most are cumbersome, and when you insert text partway through an article (or infobox) you'd end up having to renumber everything, or trying to figure out if it all matches up correctly.  Last night, I wrote my first article using the new footnote system, and found it worked VERY well.  There are 2 pages you need to be familiar with:  WP:CTT and WP:FN.  The magic is in WP:FN.  Here is what you do:
Blah blah blah blah, with 15,000 students and almost 5,000 teachers from both school boards.
Blah blah blah...
==References==

That's it.  So each instance of <ref> will be converted into a footnote reference, ordered in sequence.  If you cut-and-paste text around in the article, everything gets automatically renumbered correctly.  As an added bonus, the links between the text and the reference seem to work correctly, which isn't always the case with the other reference templates I've tried.  My test last night was with Toronto District School Board.  The article isn't done yet -- I'm still trying to figure out how to deal with the 500+ schools that I'd like to somehow list -- but the top part of the article, which includes a new infobox, contains many references that were done this way.  --Stephane Charette 18:22, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I just want to emphasize the following: if you have two or more references with the same footnote, you can use  for the first instance, and then  for subsequent ones. I did not know about the "references-small" class, however. -- Usgnus 18:44, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Also note that if the external link to the reference is anything other than an HTML page, you can add the "format" parameter  to , such as "format=PDF". Mindmatrix 18:51, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  A very nice and relatively simple way to cite the source of information 

message: Looking through the official TDSB web site, I see that many of the schools have abbreviations in the school names:
* Jr (Junior?)
* Sr (Senior?)
* CI (Collegiate Institute?)
* SS (Secondary School?)
* BTI (Business & Technical Institute?)
* HS (High School?)
When we create articles on Wikipedia, what should we do?  There are several questions here, which I'll note below.  Here are some examples to work with from the school board web site:
# AY Jackson SS 
# Albert Campbell CI 
# Bendale BTI 
# Central Etobicoke HS 
Looking at the school web site (versus looking at the school board), the names are sometimes spelled slightly differently:
# "AY Jackson SS" doesn't even mention SS, it becomes "A. Y. Jackson" 
# "Albert Campbell CI" becomes "Albert Campbell C.I." 
# "Bendale BTI" in some places is "Bendale Business & Technical Institute" 
# "Central Etobicoke HS" becomes "Central Etobicoke High School" 
Here are the questions for which I'd like us to have standardized answers:
=== Should the article title contain the abbreviation, or the full name? ===
Does Albert Campbell CI become Albert Campbell CI or Albert Campbell Collegiate Institute?  Does Central Etobicoke HS become Central Etobicoke HS or Centrak Etobicoke High School?
: My opinion is split in two:
:* common abbreviations (HS, Jr, Sr, CI, SS, etc.) are converted to the full words:  prefer Central Etobicoke High School over Central Etobicoke HS
:* proper names should reflect the common usage; for example, A. Y. Jackson is more commonly known and recognized as the famous painter than Alexander Young Jackson
: --Stephane Charette 21:59, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My opinion is the school web site would probably better reflect the name people normally use.  I'd go with the school web site name, but mention in the article that the official name of the school is perhaps slightly different.  It may also make sense to create a redirection page from the "official name" to the commonly-used name. --Stephane Charette 21:59, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

text: My opinion is the first two don't matter since the abbreviations would be replaced with the full words.  In the case of names like A Y Jackson SS, I believe it would become A. Y. Jackson Secondary School. --Stephane Charette 21:59, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I'd like to see A. Y. Jackson Secondary School, and not A.Y. Jackson Secondary School (and not AY Jackson Secondary School). --Stephane Charette 21:59, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Abbreviations in school names 

message: Does Albert Campbell CI become Albert Campbell CI or Albert Campbell Collegiate Institute?  Does Central Etobicoke HS become Central Etobicoke HS or Centrak Etobicoke High School?
: My opinion is split in two:
:* common abbreviations (HS, Jr, Sr, CI, SS, etc.) are converted to the full words:  prefer Central Etobicoke High School over Central Etobicoke HS
:* proper names should reflect the common usage; for example, A. Y. Jackson is more commonly known and recognized as the famous painter than Alexander Young Jackson
: --Stephane Charette 21:59, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should the article title contain the abbreviation, or the full name? 

message: Using the example above, does AY Jackson SS become AY Jackson SS or A. Y. Jackson?  Note that for this example, wikipedia actually has A. Y. Jackson as an article on the painter, A.Y. Jackson as a redirect to the former, and then two articles about the same school: A. Y. Jackson Secondary School (Toronto), and AY Jackson Secondary School.  (I merged the two articles together at the end of April 2006.)
: My opinion is the school web site would probably better reflect the name people normally use.  I'd go with the school web site name, but mention in the article that the official name of the school is perhaps slightly different.  It may also make sense to create a redirection page from the "official name" to the commonly-used name. --Stephane Charette 21:59, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should we standardize on school board names or school names? 

message: If we decide the article titles can/should contain abbreviations, does Albert Campbell CI become Albert Campbell CI or Albert Campbell C.I.?  Does Central Etobicoke HS become Central Etobicoke HS or Central Etobicoke H.S.?  And should it be AY Jackson Secondary School or A.Y. Jackson Secondary School? --Stephane Charette 21:59, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My opinion is the first two don't matter since the abbreviations would be replaced with the full words.  In the case of names like A Y Jackson SS, I believe it would become A. Y. Jackson Secondary School. --Stephane Charette 21:59, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should abbreviations contains periods? 

message: Again if we decide the titles can/should contain abbreviations, does the English language say we should have spaces between the letters?  Should it be Albert Campbell C.I. or Albert Campbell C. I.?  Is it A. Y. Jackson or A.Y. Jackson?
: I'd like to see A. Y. Jackson Secondary School, and not A.Y. Jackson Secondary School (and not AY Jackson Secondary School). --Stephane Charette 21:59, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Are there spaces between the letters in abbreviations? 

message: Here is what I propose adding to the project as a new section inserted between 5) Participants and 6) Structure:
===Naming conventions===
====Names of school boards or school districts====
School boards typically have a single single official name, and the articles are typically named as the school board.  One province -- British Columbia -- has a uniform naming convention, which is discussed on the list of school districts in British Columbia.  For other provinces, look through the lists, look through the list of categories, or directly into :Category:School districts in Canada.
====Names of schools====
There are several guidelines to help name school articles.  They are:
Abbreviation	Expanded
CI          	Collegiate Institute
HS          	High School
Jr          	Junior
Mt          	Mount
Sr          	Senior
SS          	Secondary School
St          	Saint
# If the school board's web site and the school's web site differ in the name of a school, prefer the one that people commonly use.  Schools at times will be known under a slightly different name than the official or legal school name.  Consider whether or not a redirection page is necessary.
# Expand all common abbreviations in the school's name.  For example, a school known as Main Street HS would be turned into an article called Main Street High School.  See the table on the right for examples of common abbreviations often found in school names.
# Proper names may or may not be abbreviated depending on how the name is commonly used.  Two opposite examples:
#* Use A. Y. Jackson Secondary School instead of Alexander Young Jackson Secondary School.
#* Use Pierre Elliott Trudeau High School instead of P. E. Trudeau High School.
# Abbreviations in the school name -- such as A. Y. Jackson -- contain periods after the letter and a blank space after each period.  For example:
#* Use A. Y. Jackson Secondary School instead of A Y Jackson Secondary School.
#* Use A. Y. Jackson Secondary School instead of A.Y. Jackson Secondary School.
#In case an article already exists for a different school with the same name, the location of both schools should follow the names in parentheses.  For example:
#* Use A. Y. Jackson Secondary School (Toronto) and A. Y. Jackson Secondary School (Ottawa).  The original article at A. Y. Jackson Secondary School can be used as a redirect to A. Y. Jackson Secondary School (disambiguation).
====Names for categories====
There are several small inconsistencies in the naming of categories used by the Education in Canada project, but if you'd like to propose a new category, look through the existing comprehensive list of categories to see how other provinces or territories are using categories.
====Names for navboxes====
Each school board navbox is a new template that needs a unique name.  When you need to create a new navbox, look through the list of existing Canadian education navboxes to see how they're named.  Typically, we've been using the school board name or the school board abbreviation, immediately followed by the word Schools.
====Names for templates====
Some of our templates (such as , and ) are named after the project's name, Education in Canada.  However, we have just as many templates where the name does not contain Education in Canada:  ,  and .  See the section below which discusses the templates regularly used in this project.
--Stephane Charette 08:10, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've now added this to the project, including a new bullet point on French names.  --Stephane Charette 16:24, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed: Naming convention 

message: ====Names of school boards or school districts====
School boards typically have a single single official name, and the articles are typically named as the school board.  One province -- British Columbia -- has a uniform naming convention, which is discussed on the list of school districts in British Columbia.  For other provinces, look through the lists, look through the list of categories, or directly into :Category:School districts in Canada.
====Names of schools====
There are several guidelines to help name school articles.  They are:
Abbreviation	Expanded
CI          	Collegiate Institute
HS          	High School
Jr          	Junior
Mt          	Mount
Sr          	Senior
SS          	Secondary School
St          	Saint
# If the school board's web site and the school's web site differ in the name of a school, prefer the one that people commonly use.  Schools at times will be known under a slightly different name than the official or legal school name.  Consider whether or not a redirection page is necessary.
# Expand all common abbreviations in the school's name.  For example, a school known as Main Street HS would be turned into an article called Main Street High School.  See the table on the right for examples of common abbreviations often found in school names.
# Proper names may or may not be abbreviated depending on how the name is commonly used.  Two opposite examples:
#* Use A. Y. Jackson Secondary School instead of Alexander Young Jackson Secondary School.
#* Use Pierre Elliott Trudeau High School instead of P. E. Trudeau High School.
# Abbreviations in the school name -- such as A. Y. Jackson -- contain periods after the letter and a blank space after each period.  For example:
#* Use A. Y. Jackson Secondary School instead of A Y Jackson Secondary School.
#* Use A. Y. Jackson Secondary School instead of A.Y. Jackson Secondary School.
#In case an article already exists for a different school with the same name, the location of both schools should follow the names in parentheses.  For example:
#* Use A. Y. Jackson Secondary School (Toronto) and A. Y. Jackson Secondary School (Ottawa).  The original article at A. Y. Jackson Secondary School can be used as a redirect to A. Y. Jackson Secondary School (disambiguation).
====Names for categories====
There are several small inconsistencies in the naming of categories used by the Education in Canada project, but if you'd like to propose a new category, look through the existing comprehensive list of categories to see how other provinces or territories are using categories.
====Names for navboxes====
Each school board navbox is a new template that needs a unique name.  When you need to create a new navbox, look through the list of existing Canadian education navboxes to see how they're named.  Typically, we've been using the school board name or the school board abbreviation, immediately followed by the word Schools.
====Names for templates====
Some of our templates (such as , and ) are named after the project's name, Education in Canada.  However, we have just as many templates where the name does not contain Education in Canada:  ,  and .  See the section below which discusses the templates regularly used in this project.
--Stephane Charette 08:10, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've now added this to the project, including a new bullet point on French names.  --Stephane Charette 16:24, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Naming conventions

message: Some of our templates (such as , and ) are named after the project's name, Education in Canada.  However, we have just as many templates where the name does not contain Education in Canada:  ,  and .  See the section below which discusses the templates regularly used in this project.
--Stephane Charette 08:10, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've now added this to the project, including a new bullet point on French names.  --Stephane Charette 16:24, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Names for templates

message: I'd like to work on organizing the CEGEPs and colleges of Quebec.  At the moment there are both a List of CEGEPs and a List of colleges in Quebec, which overlap a lot, and I've suggested that they be merged.  We also have two jumbled-up categories, :Category:Colleges in Quebec and :Category:Quebec CEGEP.  It's suggested on Wikipedia:WikiProject Education in Canada/Categories that the CEGEP category should be under :Category:Schools in Quebec.  I think that it might belong better under the colleges category, the reasoning being that the CEGEPs are a certain type of publicly funded college.  Other private colleges offer comparable programs and are sometimes (inaccurately) called CEGEPs.  So the confusion is between CEGEPs and other colleges, as opposed to between CEGEPs and other schools.  Another idea that might help the categories match how readers think of the schools would be to have a category and list entitled something like "Colleges and CEGEPs in Quebec."  If my understanding of the common usage is incorrect, however, please say so.
: Note that Wikipedia:WikiProject Education in Canada/Categories wasn't something I was suggesting, but more "this is what we currently have".  I'll make that more obvious on the project page.  If you're familiar with the topic, and you think certain categories need to be merged or moved around, just let everyone know and make the necessary fixes. --Stephane Charette 15:21, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My first thought would be that if you're using the French wikipedia as a source to guide you, then it may make sense to use the same divisions they've decided works best.  You're the one who will be working on it -- you decide what is best.  :)  Document in the talk page here what you're proposing, and we'll make sure it gets documented in the project page.  --Stephane Charette 15:21, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Great, thanks.  I rearranged and created new categories, so now we have :Category:Colleges in Quebec with subcategories :Category:Quebec CEGEP, :Category:Government colleges in Quebec, :Category:Private subsidized colleges in Quebec, and :Category:Private colleges under licence in Quebec.  Now I'll work on populating the categories. Cpastern 17:25, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Thanks for taking on this large task. I'll try to help with some of the easier, but maybe tedious, tasks. As for your questions, for the categorization, I see no harm in matching the French wikipedia's scheme. And I don't see a need to rename any of the existing articles. -- Usgnus 23:15, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the name of the article should reflect the name of the school.  The usage of the generic term Cégep should be written as CEGEP.  This is also how I'm writing up French elementary schools and French high schools in Ontario and BC.  I don't think we should be renaming instituations on Wikipedia.  If we renamed schools, it would make it harder for people to find articles.  True, the change from Cégep to CEGEP isn't much of a renaming, but nonetheless, I wouldn't want to take a school like École des Pionniers and instead create an article called School of the Pionneers.  Likewise, Cégep du Vieux Montréal would be the article name, but in the article, you might have a phrase such as:  "...is a French-language CEGEP located in...".  --Stephane Charette 15:21, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Another strange problem that comes up when dealing with English versus French is capitilization in the article title.  Articles and adjectives in French are never capitalized, while in English, it is perfectly valid to capitalize every word in a title.  The thinking I used to deal with it is again related to how someone who knows an instituations name would likely look it up.  For example, we have École élémentaire catholique des Pionniers and École secondaire Confédération, not École Élémentaire Catholique Des Pionniers nor École Secondaire Confédération.  I'm certain this will come up with some of the CEGEP's as well.  --Stephane Charette 15:36, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  CEGEP/college organization 

message: Working on the school pages for BC, following the discussion here - I have a user Special:Contributions/Danielrocks123 who is tagging all these pages for deletion. Note left at the users page. If you come across a page so tagged please add your comments to the deletion log. Wakemp 17:13, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have been placing the tags on the elementary schools because it seems that elementary schools are generally considered non-notable.  I will stop placing the AfD tags on the schools for now until I see what the consensus is on them. --Danielrocks123 17:30, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you check the history at Wikipedia:Watch/schoolwatch/Schools for deletion archive, you'll see elementary schools are all kept per precedent, if they're verifiable, and don't have copyvio.  --Rob 17:44, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Regardless, I've updated the project page to link to the two big deletion blocks (35 schools proposed for deletion): Wikipedia:WikiProject Education in Canada#School articles at risk of being deleted.  Please visit and state your opinion. --Stephane Charette 18:40, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

text: The major argument for deletion appears to be the non-notability of schools under WP:NN, rather than the quality of the articles. I was hoping to create as basic framework for all the BC schools and then slowly fill in with additional data. I believe that once an entry is there we can attract editors. If the proposition is only notable schools should be in Wikipedia then we have a bigger problem - precedent not withstanding. Wakemp 22:28, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I wouldn't let recent nominations have any impact on what your doing.  No such nomination (I recall) has results in a consensus to delete since about August last year, and even then, they were the exception.  Generally, schools are deemed to be individually notable.  Having said that, I prefer the idea of making a smaller number of complete articles, rather than many small stubs.  --Rob 23:41, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Clarification requested:Is the suggestion that notability tied to the grade level or the size of the school? Wakemp 22:47, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe it's tied to the size of the school, and High Schools and above are inheritently larger, and thus have ties to notability, such as a famous person who may have gone to the school. Ardenn 22:50, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem with saying I personally believe elementary and middle schools aren't notable is that anyone else can come along and just as easy say the opposite.  So who do we believe?  In this case, with the work that is going on especially with the recent contributors for BC schools, is also a matter of completeness.  A large amount of work has gone into setting up the school boards, and the schools, and it obviously is a work-in-progress.  To have 35 articles nominated for deletion all of a sudden is a drawback, since people (like myself!) are drawn into AfD, and spending the afternoon voting for keep/delete instead of working on the articles.  --Stephane Charette 23:59, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm having the same problem with this process and I am now concerned we are going to have to go throught this fight every time. I also feel somewhat responsible as these are articles that I created. When collecting this information, I have found it easier to wikify it all at once and add it to articles. This leads to adding information in chunks over multiple schools - starting with the basic demographic data. It also forces us to handle disambiguation and other problems at the same time. I also believe the fact that we created an info box rather than writing the information as prose makes the article look lighter than it is. This concept that a school needs public notoriety  to qualify seems bizare to me. Another project I am working on is Air Force Squadrons (example:No._442_Squadron_RCAF) and I believe these are an equivalent example of a Canadian organization which may not have any inherent notoriety . Feeling a little frustrated now! Wakemp 15:09, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't feel responsible, Wakemp, he just happened to have stumbled onto a school zone you did prior to finding the other school zones.  At the moment, I'm happy he didn't stumble upon the page that lists all of the BC school zones first, or there would be many more schools up for deletion.  What this highlights for me is that I wont be able to continue working on schools outside of the Kelowna area as I've been doing, since I'm unlikely to find in the library (for example) any newspaper articles on French schools back in Ontario.  And like you, my first pass through the school zone is usually to create the standard infobox article.  --Stephane Charette 16:27, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

text:  I was trying to stay away from commenting on the people that are recommending articles for deletion but it is an issue we may need to address. There are a large number of users on article patrol that seem to do nothing but recommend items for deletion. It is my belief that any article tagged as part of this project should be enough to buy a couple months to see if we can draw editors but apparently not. So I might have to change how I am collecting my data and contributing it. To add to my concern, some of these folks are trying to gain Adminship. In addition to participating here we need to encourage people to vote in AfD and RfA votes. Props to Stephane for getting the banner on the project page. Wakemp 00:39, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Well, that was a big waste of time. -- Usgnus 18:09, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

text: That is what I plan on doing in the meantime until there is an indication that the other articles can stay. Wakemp 00:41, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I feel people should prioritize on articles with a good amount of independent verifiable information available (e.g. newspaper stories, etc...).  That will usually mean a high school, but it may include more unique elementary schools (such as cases where there's controversy about them).  For instance, a special purpose (or charter) school, may get enough special attention/coverage, warranting getting an article before a more typical high school.  --Rob 09:06, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  AfD tags on School pages 

message: How about we focus on secondary school articles first, and then work on middle schools and elementary/primary. -- Usgnus 00:23, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That is what I plan on doing in the meantime until there is an indication that the other articles can stay. Wakemp 00:41, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I feel people should prioritize on articles with a good amount of independent verifiable information available (e.g. newspaper stories, etc...).  That will usually mean a high school, but it may include more unique elementary schools (such as cases where there's controversy about them).  For instance, a special purpose (or charter) school, may get enough special attention/coverage, warranting getting an article before a more typical high school.  --Rob 09:06, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposal

message: See Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2006 June 13#Template:Infobox Canadian School. Usgnus 20:07, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Template:Infobox Canadian School listed for deletion 

message: Spreading my desire for organization beyond the bounds of Quebec, I propose that the categories, lists and nav boxes for Canadian colleges and universities be cleaned up.  I don't yet have an opinion on how to do it, but here's the situation: we have a :Category:Lists of universities and colleges in Canada and some provinces have separate college and university lists and some have combined.  There's a list for universities in Canada but not for colleges.  On List of universities in Canada there are a lot of links to "main articles" with redundant or slightly different lists, which are organized in different ways.  
Some provinces and territories also have their own navigation boxes.  And then, of course, are the various categories.  The extent of the redundancy can be seen in, for example, Yukon College, which has a "See also" link to a list which has exactly the same contents as the nav box, and is in a category of the same name (which has only one additional entry, for a total of four).  So there are three nearly identical and redundant navigation and organization systems going on in one small article.  Besides which, having a nav box for "Colleges in Canada's Territories" (:Template:Can-terr-colleges) doesn't make a lot of sense and seems a bit organizationally desperate.  Why would someone reading about Yukon College need instant access to a link to a college in Nunavut, whose only similarity is how the region it's in is governed? 
I've found Wikipedia:Categories, lists, and series boxes interesting reading for suggestions of which to use; maybe it can guide us?  It's also worth considering other countries: List of colleges and universities by country.  I'm interested in ideas and opinions about what's good and bad and what could happen.  Would it be helpful to have a detailed description of the whole situation or can we work with a more general picture? Cpastern 23:01, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  College/university organization 

message: Need some support (or opposition if you disagree) here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of schools in Canada: A -- Usgnus 17:00, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A thought: if we're having problems getting some of these unmaintainable lists deleted, it may make sense to simply turn the entire list article into a redirect to the appropriate category page.  This way we don't have to fight our way through the deletion process.  (I find it humourous that we cannot get the pages we want deleted, while at the same time we have school articles on AfD.)  --Stephane Charette 19:55, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm just waiting for someone to write an article about A Best Class Driving School, the first school on the list. -- Usgnus 20:42, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Afd: List of schools in Canada: A