Talk:D.C. sniper attacks

message: " This list does not include two victims who were not publicly identified; .... and the other man, a 76-year-old from Tucson, Arizona, was shot non-fatally on a Clearwater, Florida, golf course on May 18, 2002.[10]"
Is there any reasons these names can not be put on this wiki? 
http://www.tampabay.com/features/humaninterest/clearwater-shooting-victim-awaits-execution-of-dc-sniper/1050591  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Keithbkessler (talk • contribs) 14:33, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: unnamed victims

message: The link to Takoma, Washington is incorrect.  The actual location is Takoma Park on the border of Washington, D.C. and Maryland.
TimeHorse (talk) 18:33, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Is this right ?   Tacoma, Washington is mentioned twice .  Thats the place with the dodgy bridge ?  Did these evildoers come from Washington state or did they just drive all the way there and back to get their guns ?   Seems a bit unlikely.Eregli bob (talk) 16:19, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Wrong location for the taking of the tree sample and search for bullets

message: not sure if Beltway Sniper is going to stick... the guy is outside of the beltway...and a quick breeze through the news.google, none of the headlines read Beltway Sniper, nor do they call him/her that often enough, at least on the west coast... to merit his current ignoble name.
:Ok having read the other entry on the sniper, people living in the area do call him the Beltway Sniper
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While we're at it, why not "Beltway Sniper of 2002" ? In 2210, this affair may well be forgotten. And hopefully it will be resolved by the end of this year. Just my 2 cents. FvdP
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We also call them the "DC Snipers" (I'm a local)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.126.181.214 (talk) 11:38, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: name problems

message: Why, exactly, is it relevant that Linda Franklin shares a surname with Joseph Paul Franklin? --Flidget Jerome 16:56, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Even worse, this questionable item of trivia is presented in a timeline. Unless someone can answer that question, let's leave the following deleted  text out: It is worth noting that a man who shared a surname with the victim-serial killer Joseph Paul Franklin- had also commited sniper attacks in Falls Church against black people. Vaoverland 19:34, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Franklin surname trivia

message: It is common belief that the snipers were caught through citizen tips.
In reality, OnStar helped catch the snipers.  The car they were using during the attacks had an OnStar system.  OnStar was asked by authorities to turn over records of vehicles within a specified radius and time range from when the attacks occurred.  The pattern revealed 3 emergency vehicles and the lone car.  The OnStar system was still registered under the previous vehicle's owner.   However, because OnStar is GPS based, it was able to pin point the sniper's location at the rest area. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dhacker (talk • contribs) 
* The car used by the snipers was a 1990 Chevrolet Caprice.  OnStar was first made available in 1997 (initially in Cadillac models). -Aude (talk | contribs) 19:39, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: One thing is for certain - the Beltway Snipers were caught no thanks to Charles Moose, the pathologically race-conscious and politically-correct liberal police chief of Montgomery County, Maryland, the area where the first attack occurred. Charles Moose led the sniper task force throughout the investigation. He refused to acknowledge the possibility that the sniper could be anyone other than a white man. Charles Moose refused to release a composite sketch of a non-white suspect based on actual witness accounts, because he didn't want to "paint some group." Charles Moose was more concerned about offending a minority group than catching the killers. That's incompetence writ large and should be called by its proper name, black official or not. It wasn't until the snipers gave themselves away by bragging about another murder they committed during a liquor store robbery in Montgomery, Alabama, that Federal agents began developing leads that ultimately resulted in their apprehension. Kepiblanc 05:27, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: See WP:SOAP. Illegitimate Barrister (talk) 14:02, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: How were the Snipers Really Caught?

message: http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/10/27/malvo.ap/index.html
just saw this today.  might be important to include.--ZeWrestler  Talk 03:24, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: More victims

message: There were extra police everywhere. Police at the schools, on street corners...people were afraid to even go outside, especially the beltway. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.49.250.152 (talk) 02:30, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's so true. i remeber when the beltway sniper was on the lose. it was pretty scary(Esskater11 15:51, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed it was. Illegitimate Barrister (talk) 14:17, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: State of fear.

message: Much of this article, especially the section having to do exhibits, needs citations. --Unsigned statement
I would say all of the article is in bad need of citations considering there are only six citations in the whole article. 67.142.130.26 19:33, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: References!!

message: Ah, what do the Zebra murders have to do with the Beltway snipers beyond NOI member involvement?
129.119.240.84 (talk) 20:38, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Link?

message: On the video game controversy page, it says that the two killers were motivated and trained by playing Halo:CE, but in this article, theres no mention at all of Halo. Should that information be added?4nthr4x (talk) 18:13, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If you have a reasonable source/reference, add it in where appropriate. Illegitimate Barrister (talk) 13:14, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Halo

message: I removed the line, "An earlier spree for which the pair was responsible had killed victims in California, Arizona, and Texas, for a total of 16 deaths identified as of March 2007." There is nothing in the article that further discusses killings in these states and no outside link to support the claim. Tgpaul58 (talk) 04:26, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There's nothing to support crimes in Georgia either, so I removed reference to that. Superm401 - Talk 08:53, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Murders in other states

message: Edited the article to correct the quotation on the tarot card message, would is "Dear Mr. Policeman..." rather than "Dear Policeman...." I didn't add a citation but it should be in the cited sources if someone wants to add one, since the paragraph needs more anyway.
For those who don't think this detail doesn't mention an edit, here's an interesting story: at the time, police were still looking for a white man. However, when that message was released, my Caribbean friends say they knew it was an islander, because only an islander says "Mr. Policeman." Apparently the Montgomery County police department did not employ any islanders at the time.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.21.241.143 (talk) 22:25, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Tarot card messages

message: At least one dot location on the map is incorrect: number 13 occurred at Seven Corners, but is shown near Alexandria.  Some of the others do not seem right, but it's hard to tell because the numbering in the diagram is not clearly linked to the text.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.43.134.199 (talk) 22:08, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Incorrect map locations

message: Some good images here that are PD - and should be added to article. Sherurcij (speaker for the dead)  19:31, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Good find, nice pics. Illegitimate Barrister (talk) 13:16, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: EDIT: I have added the pics to the article. Illegitimate Barrister (talk) 16:18, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Images

message: In the article, Muhammad's original execution date was set for November 11. Why did they change it to the 10th? An explanation within the article would be helpful. ExistentialBliss (talk) 19:33, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Why did they change his execution date?

message: Every other source says his name was John Allen Muhammad. 69.225.117.21 (talk) 02:11, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Why does this article refer to him as JORDAN Allen Muhammad

message: The article was assessed C-class for lack of in-line citations in some sections. Boneyard90 (talk) 12:56, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  WP:Death Assessment Commentary 

message: The single biggest accidental effect of the Malvo shootings gets ignored by everybody. The Senate debate on whether to go to war took place at the same time. War was declared on October 11, 2002. The Malvo shooting spree dominated the headlines and pushed the war debate completely off the front page of most newspapers for the entire debate. The last chance to oppose the war was lost in a sea of headlines screaming "SNIPER !!!".  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.42.41.105 (talk) 21:01, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Malve and the Iraq War Debate 

message: Is there any info about the sniper attacks in Arizona, or elsewhere out west? If not, somebody should work on it. Thanks.--70.162.70.28 (talk) 21:34, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Arizona

message: I believe race should be mentioned in the article.
1.) the suspects where believed to be of a certain race due to profiling.
2.) the suspects started targeting blacks specifically to distort this profiling.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.162.176.98 (talk) 13:54, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. I have just added the article to the :Category:Racially motivated violence against European Americans, and am adding a mention in the lede about racial motivation. Bricology (talk) 11:46, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Race of Victims 

message: There are conflicting times within this article for the murder of James Martin.  The section titled "Attacks in the Washington, D.C. metropolitan area" under the "Montgomery County, Maryland" subheading has time of death listed as 6:30pm. However the "Aftermath" / "Victims" section table lists Mr. Martin being killed at 6:04 pm.  I can't find a citation for the table, which appears in related Wikipedia articles as well.
I believe the 6:30pm time is incorrect, possibly confused with the time of the earlier killing of Hong Im Ballenger on September 23, 2002.  I have also found references that imply the shot killing Martin was fired less than an hour after the earlier "missed" shot at 5:20pm, on the same day, which would support 6:04pm as the correct time.
The book "23 Days of Terror: The Compelling True Story of the Hunt and Capture of the Beltway Sniper" By Angie Cannon has a chronology sequence that confirms 6:04pm as the time of Mr Martin's killing -
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=Qyz9pGKY6bEC&pg=PT10&dq=6:04
Should I search for more citations for the 6:04pm time before correcting the article(s) or ...?
-- Gth-au (talk) 11:07, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Time Discrepancy

message: This is a very confusing article.  One thing that isn't made clear is, how did the police identify Muhammad and Malvo as the shooters, by name?  I get it that once they did, they put the public on alert for a blue chevy, and caught them on a tip - but it's not clear how they learned their names in the first place. -- Y not? 15:57, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: See the article on John Allen Muhammad.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.98.54.74 (talk) 17:38, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Identification 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Terrorism and Islamism  ought to be in lede and better covered in the article.E.M.Gregory (talk) 14:38, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: With sources like that, it is generally a good idea to find some additional sources that make a similar claim - if they make a similar claim. My very best wishes (talk) 19:33, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Terrorism

message: Why the lack of Follow-up on this aspect of the snipers' capture that got national attention when the story broke? Even if the story didn't turn out to be true, it is still notable coverage of the incident, and should be properly dismissed as such. If it's true, it is the article's most glaring omission. MMetro (talk) 14:11, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  http://www.cbsnews.com/news/call-to-priest-cracks-sniper-case/ 

message: According to the "Motive" section, "[a] series of trial exhibits suggested Malvo and Muhammad were motivated by an affinity for Islamist Jihad." The source is a newspaper editorial, and newspaper editorials are not reliable sources for facts per WP:RSOPINION. I have tagged the source as unreliable. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 00:18, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Having waited six weeks and having received not a single response, I will remove the unreliable source and the material cited to it. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 02:36, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  "motivated by an affinity for Islamist Jihad" 

message: Malik Shabazz, regrading this and this, I question WP:NOTMEMORIAL and WP:NOTDIRECTORY applying in this case. For articles like these, it's common to include a section about the victims because the victims are commonly well-covered in WP:Reliable sources. Therefore, such sections can be encyclopedic. I'm not stating that the sections you removed were done well or that we should return them in their entirety (after all, we don't need more than one section about the victims), but I am stating that I don't think that sections about victims are automatically WP:NOTMEMORIAL and WP:NOTDIRECTORY violations. For further input, I'll ask about this case at the talk page for WP:NOTMEMORIAL and WP:NOTDIRECTORY; I'll point editors to this section so that the discussion is kept in one spot. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 01:43, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd welcome such a discussion, Flyer22 Reborn. Thank you. I don't doubt that an encyclopedic section about the snipers' victims could be written, but long lists of names, in my view, have no value. As an example, Casualties of the September 11 attacks is an encyclopedia article; Emergency workers killed in the September 11 attacks is a memorial that should (in my opinion) be deleted. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 02:33, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[WP:NOTMEMORIAL]] and [[WP:NOTDIRECTORY]] 

message: There is an RFC about a link to this article: Should the Chevrolet Caprice article mention in the body or via a see also link the Beltway Sniper's use of a Chevrolet Caprice? See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Automobiles#Request for Comment: Inclusion of vehicle use in crimes as part of vehicle articles. Felsic2 (talk) 00:39, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  RFC: Inclusion of Beltway sniper attacks in Chevrolet Caprice article  

message: Loginnigol, looking here and here, I see that you moved the article from "Beltway sniper attacks" to "D. C. sniper attacks." And I see that with this move, Illegitimate Barrister recently fixed the spacing issue.
Loginnigol, because there are WP:Article title matters to consider, you should have started a WP:Requested moves discussion on this  issue instead of moving this article per your opinion on what it should be titled. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 08:18, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  2016 move of this article 

message: This sentence in the lead is very unclear: "Their crime spree, begun in February 2002, featured murders and robberies in the states of Alabama, Arizona, and Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Texas, and Washington, which resulted in seven deaths and seven injured people; in ten months, the snipers killed 17 people and injured 10 other people.". Did they kill seven and injure seven, or kill 17 and injure 10? Jon Harald Søby (talk) 14:57, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Article links to Tacoma, Washington (state) when presumably they are referencing the Takoma Park neighborhood of Washington, DC. How would they find shells on the other side of the country? 2601:152:880:10A0:705F:5541:D7E7:767B (talk) 12:59, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Which link? The article says Muhammad practiced at a gun range in Tacoma, Washington (near Seattle). Fredlesaltique (talk) 03:14, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tacoma should be Takoma 

message: The phrasing in one of the early paragraphs is confusing me and seems to present two different numbers for the amount of total victims.
"Their crime spree, which began in February 2002, included murders and robberies in the states of Alabama, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Texas, and Washington, which resulted in 7 deaths and 7 wounded; in ten months, the snipers killed 17 people and wounded 10 others.[1]"
Was it 7 killed and 7 wounded or was it 17 killed and 10 wounded? WolfmanMcGee (talk) 10:01, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  How many victims? 

message: Some of the names of the dead and wounded are missing. I think that should be updated. 2600:1007:B03E:52B:6984:5B61:24CD:BE35 (talk) 17:48, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Victim names 

message: Whoever made the map - you should correct the dot for #13. You have it located just outside of alexandria - but it actually occurred at the Home Depot in Merrifield(just outside of falls church - which is the random defined city on the map in western fairfax county). Just stuck out as really far off… Sibley79 (talk) 02:17, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Location #13 on map is incorrect 

message: The copyvio-flagged text in the article was added in 2007 and earlier. Archive.org indicates that the Crime Museum article wasn't live until 2017. I suspect it made use of the Wikipedia text in writing its article. Schazjmd (talk) 19:53, 30 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regarding possible copyvio 

message: Regarding this line: Chief Moose released part of the content of one of the shooter's letters, in which he declares, "Your children are not safe, anywhere, at any time."
It appears right in the middle of Johnson getting shot, how does this contextually make sense? Is it meant to have occurred the same day? Suggest moving it to the end of the paragraph 72.164.175.30 (talk) 21:00, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree, and moved. It wasn't in the para's source, so added a source-needed tag. Only reason I left it in the same para is it seems to have happened on the same day but without a source yet, couldn't be sure. Schazjmd (talk) 21:09, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Added ref, and "On the same day" to make clear it's in the correct place in the timeline. Schazjmd (talk) 21:12, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question on ordering