Talk:Language poets

message: Apologies if this is in the wrong place, but I am experiencing loading errors for a link in the external links section of this page: http://english.utah.edu/eclipse/projects/LANGUAGE/language.html. That would be the Language online archive link. 
If this is happening for other users it should be removed, however it could be my OpenDNS acting up.
Shed light if you can
Redlion145 (talk) 01:31, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link error 

message: I've seen "langpo" used informally/casually or, sometimes, sarcastically/belittlingly, mostly via email, but I don't think it's quite as settled an abbreviation as the final part of the article implies. ND 20:16, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's pretty settled as an informal label, and doesn't have to be pejorative, i don't think. perhaps the article should just reference it as an informal abbreviation?JFQ 18:35, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name of group 

message: Er, relative to what, exactly?  It's a meaningless claim unless the basis of comparison is stated. ND 21:43, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "relatively high number of female poets" 

message: It seems to me that a few of the sections bearing the "citation needed" stamp have been changed or adequately verified, for instance the Wittgenstein paragraph (lots of info on the talk page).  Can some of them be removed?  The final sentence in the "This Magazine" paragraph seems self-evident (almost tautologicaly so)--it says, in essence, that the poetic contributions to an influential poetry magazine were influential to the kind of poetry that (as is stated earlier in the paragraph) it influenced--as opposed to just the quoted essay.  Perhaps the wording is a bit strange.  Unless there is some question about the role of This Magazine, I personally don't see a problem.  Maybe it could use a rewrite for clarity's sake....Thanks.--Staple 01:05, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How about: "Of course, the genesis of language poetry can be traced to no single declaration.  Instead, it was the range of contemporary poetries focusing on "language" in the first issue of This that established the consensus that would develop into a school of poetry.".  Or: "Of course, the range of contributions to the first issue of This that focused on "language" influenced the establishment of language poetry as much as any single declarative statement.".  Any better?  Thanks.--Staple 03:26, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: that is better. i say go with it. I pulled out a few of those myself yesterday, since i was the one who put them there in the first place and i felt like the "where did this information come from?" nature of certain statements had been resolved. I think your rewrites of that given sentence do solve that problem there as well, so get down with your bad self and do it.:)JFQ 03:08, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Rereading the article this morning, i'm going to kill the last of those  tags. I also think we're at the point where the cleanup notice can be removed. thoughts?JFQ 17:42, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re: Citations 

message: Am i to take it from the user names of the folks who've taken an interest in this article that a couple of the language poets have themselves been updating the article? I think that's a fascinating turn up and just wanted to say thanks for taking an interest. Re: User:Bwatten's comment about the need for a Black Mountain school page, a lot of that information is currently covered under Black Mountain poets although I agree it needs a lot of work. AFAIK, the convention that editors have been using so far to discuss specific movements is to title the page after the group, for example this page is called 'Language poets' rather than 'Language poetry' although it could really go either way. Perhaps that convention needs to be changed, and I think i'd be in favor of it, but i think we should avoid having articles duplicating themselves.JFQ 17:47, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: New attention from interested editors & Naming conventions for American poetry movments

message: I really like how much improvement has happened to this article recently. to my  thinking, what is currently missing in order to make this article approach the asymptote of completion are some images and the cultural context for the movement, which is one of the goals of Wikiproject:poetry. I don't have the resources or background to do that, but i hope that someone else does. Does anyone else have any other suggestions for items that should be included in the article that aren't currently present?JFQ 21:35, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I finally got around to reading this. It's a useful reflection. I'm considering adding a section to the article about the name of the article for this very reason. I'm also tempted to speculate about what happens to wikipedia's holy grail of NPOV when the article and the movement start to interplay with eachother. Unfortunately the stuff i find really interesting about it would qualify as Original research. Maybe i'll write it up on my litblog and then link to it from the references page.JFQ 17:12, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

text: A good example of how images could be incorporated into the article would be theImagism article. Images are uploaded using Special:Upload. A full writeup of how to upload images is at Wikipedia:Uploading images.
If you want help loading images, let me know and I will send you an email address you can send them to and will upload them for you.  I'd love to see images on this article; it is a wonderful example of the many roles an article on Wikipedia can play.  Once we get some images, I'd like to get some footnotes and links added to this (especially links that take us to poetry) and then see it go on the Portal:Poetry as a featured article to get more visibility. BW, I rather like the post on your homepage.  One other interesting aspect that can give some fodder for thought is the time-based aspect of Wikipedia.  It is quite easy to flip through and see the article as it has developed over time, and none of the comments are ever lost, even the typos. Sam 12:57, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: What's missing?

message: I removed this sentence: Both continuity and rupture are important to this moment of literary evolution. from the overview section because i don't think it's very clear, and the stubs linked to are not particularly helpful. I'd like to see this idea expanded and the hyperbolic phrase "moment of literary evolution" toned down a bit, but i don't really have a clear understand what the editor who added it meant by this sentence, so don't want to take the job on myself and get it wrong.JFQ 23:28, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: continuity and rupture

message: I am disputing the reversion of this article back to the use of a magazine title to NAME an entire movement. This was argued and debate over the Spring and Summer of 2006, and an anonymous user as added the equal sign again without giving sufficient context for that change. Once again, this article needs revision or reversion to the earlier version which it seems the Wikipedia community has begun to reach a consensus.Christian Roess 07:45, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I just love to sit at my typewriter and insert the equal sign between the letters...L=A=N=G=...and it is a curious indulgence, in the sense that there must be some reason that this designation, this habit,  continues to inhabit the discussion from the head thru the heart down the arm by the hand VIA the writing I=N=S=T=U=M=E=N=T...)
I mean there MUST BE SOME REASON??? Right???? 
An argument can be made for the "visible" , maybe even the "actual"? & physical & pleasurable indulgence of the "hypen" . But does such a "desire", in all its facets and designations, justify its continued use to name an entire "school" of poetics? 
What is the big deal, you ask?
Anyhow, check out Barrett Watten's article On First Looking into
Wikipedia's "Language"http://www.english.wayne.edu/fac_pages/ewatten/index.html 
for an interesting discussion. Rather frustatingly, Watten points out some reasons against the use of "hypens" or the "equal sign". Indeed, such a "practice" is misleading and is damaging ... And Watten's discussion is pertinent for a different reason than you may believe. Its a thoughtful, fully self conscious piece. It would be easy to for Watten to succumb to self-aggrandizement...But the integrity of the thinking here comes through. 
In other words, Watten (as a "founding" member & a "precedent figure" of the Language school itself) could  have (would have) a personal axe to grind, or he could have some kind of "agenda" hidden or otherwise. That being said, Watten's article about this article on the Language poets here at Wikipedia communicates something else. And that "something else" is far from being self-serving. 
Its a much needed, and refreshing counter balance to the banter that masquerades as "thought" or "discourse" on both the cable TV & radio talk show circuit Christian Roess 14:07, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Controversial topic 

message: Well, an "anonymous" editor (at the IP address 71.233.90.233) has added the "hypen" back throughout the article...Me (user:Christian Roess) and (user: ND) are having a discussion about it here~~>User_talk:71.233.90.233. 
In a few weeks I am going to REMOVE the "equal sign", folks. Now, I understand fully that Wikipedia is about Consensus. It is not about what I want in particular. Maybe its a search for some kind of "plurality" (albeit an "agonistic plurality").
If this is what is agreed upon...OK...The "ethos" of  Wikipedia is not (necessarily) about "truth", or "feelings"..."right" or "wrong"..
BUT: there is a long term consequence to something as seemingly "innocent" or "inconsequential" as adding an "equal sign" between the letters of the word "Language"
As Barrett Watten points out somewhere ( and I mention it here to fellow wikipedians so you can think about it y'all): there is a sense of "accomplishment" by sitting down and writing the word "Language" separated by "hyphens". But what is really going on here?
(...and so wikipedians think about what you're doing here. Think about the process itself or be mindful of the procedure which might go something like this:
:: I just love to sit at my typewriter and insert the equal sign between the letters...L=A=N=G=...and it is a curious indulgence, in the sense that there must be some reason that this designation, this habit,  continues to inhabit the discussion from the head thru the heart down the arm by the hand VIA the writing I=N=S=T=U=M=E=N=T...)
I mean there MUST BE SOME REASON??? Right???? 
An argument can be made for the "visible" , maybe even the "actual"? & physical & pleasurable indulgence of the "hypen" . But does such a "desire", in all its facets and designations, justify its continued use to name an entire "school" of poetics? 
What is the big deal, you ask?
Anyhow, check out Barrett Watten's article On First Looking into
Wikipedia's "Language"http://www.english.wayne.edu/fac_pages/ewatten/index.html 
for an interesting discussion. Rather frustatingly, Watten points out some reasons against the use of "hypens" or the "equal sign". Indeed, such a "practice" is misleading and is damaging ... And Watten's discussion is pertinent for a different reason than you may believe. Its a thoughtful, fully self conscious piece. It would be easy to for Watten to succumb to self-aggrandizement...But the integrity of the thinking here comes through. 
In other words, Watten (as a "founding" member & a "precedent figure" of the Language school itself) could  have (would have) a personal axe to grind, or he could have some kind of "agenda" hidden or otherwise. That being said, Watten's article about this article on the Language poets here at Wikipedia communicates something else. And that "something else" is far from being self-serving. 
Its a much needed, and refreshing counter balance to the banter that masquerades as "thought" or "discourse" on both the cable TV & radio talk show circuit Christian Roess 14:07, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The RETURN of the Hyphen; or is it an "equal sign"?=== or ===the most boring shit you'll ever read in your life

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Language poets. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070630065810/http://www.english.wayne.edu/fac_pages/ewatten/posts/post34.html to http://www.english.wayne.edu/fac_pages/ewatten/posts/post34.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 11:42, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified