Talk:Doctor of Medicine

message: I remember reading a long time ago that American (and possibly Canadian) college students could apply to medical schools after a couple of years studying pre-medical subjects, without completing a BA or BS first. Is that still the case? Or has the level of competition for entry effectively raised the barrier and made the MD a postgraduate degree, as happened to the LLB (now JD)? NRPanikker 19:07, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There are some combined BA/MD programs where you are accepted right out of high school.  Andrew73 21:56, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

text: I wonder whether the effective requirement for a BA or BS before enrolling for an American MD equates academically to the French requirement for a baccalauréat or Bachelier ès Sciences degree on leaving the lycée followed by a year's premedical study at university, or even the English call for Advanced Level GCE passes. NRPanikker 03:33, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, to me it seems that the BA requirement is more significant (by far) compared to either, though I admit I know much less about the French system.  Allgoodnamesalreadytaken 20:58, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: To be really nitpicky, it's possible to gain admission to certain med schools (Brown) without a 4-year degree, but before you can matriculate you'll need to have completed your degree (that is, you can apply for a BS/MD right out of high school, but you have to complete the BS first). For all practical purposes, you're exactly right. Antelan talk 19:37, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  MD as a first degree 

message: Currently the main MD article states that American medical schools used to give bachelor of medicine degrees, until they switched to giving doctorates. I remember hearing a long time ago that Dartmouth College could award a bachelor's degree to those who got half way through the medical course, but is the main assertion correct or just vandalism? NRPanikker 15:17, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Vandalism?  How could this assertion qualify as vandalism?User:Hopping T  16:02, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  MB in the USA 

message: I thought all that 'allopathic' business had been resolved months ago.  If not, perhaps we should discuss it here. -- Nicholas Jackson (talk) 07:42, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I thought so too: see the discussion from last month See WhatamIdoing's comment below for the updated link. Antelantalk 11:41, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah but a certain editor insists on being tendentious about this.  OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 00:45, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

text: The correct link is here.  The discussion was archived.  WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:44, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Oops, thanks. I've fixed my post. Antelantalk 20:41, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Allopathic 

message: There is currently a war in place over the addition of the censor tag to this talk page. I don't personally believe that it is needed for this page, however, rather than engage in an edit war, it would be better to discuss it here. DigitalC (talk) 07:32, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This use of the censor tag is the most asinine thing I've seen today. It's used on pages which may attract censoring of images (such as pictures of Mohamed or human nudity). Not a Intelligent-design-esq "the establishment is censoring our arguments". Jefffire (talk) 08:45, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Arguments?  What arguments? Bryan Hopping T  13:48, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If you look at WP:CENSOR, it's clear that "not censored" applies to graphic content which some might consider obscene or inappropriate. The examples cited are the articles on penis and pornography. In any content dispute, both sides typically feel that the other is "censoring" their arguments. That's not what WP:CENSOR is about. A censorship tag isn't appropriate to this particular page or dispute. Instead of edit-warring over the tag, why not set forth the dispute concisely and seek outside input? MastCell Talk 15:49, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well then why won't someone block Hopping for edit warring and putting a dumbass 3RR warning on my user talk page for removing it?  OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 20:44, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Is it up to 4 yet? I sent my WP sttings to Ozzie times which confuses me sometimes...Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:26, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Censor tag 

message: The article seems to switch between the two. Being an aussie I don't use the term - should it always have the little dots? In any case, the article should stick to one. I'd do it myself but I can't decide which.....Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:28, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I prefer LRU.  Lord Ruler of the Universe.  But that may just be me. Wikipedia:Manual of Style (abbreviations) says either is preferred.  Which means there is no standard.  But I would presume if this article was being copyedited, it should be consistent.  I'd vote for MD, since it's easier to type.  OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 14:37, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

text: MD is fine by me, as well. Anyone want to stick up for poor old M.D.? Antelantalk 23:51, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll race you to see how many M.D.'s can be changed to MD in the next 10 minutes.  :)  OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 23:54, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh you're on. If you beat me to it, I'll just revert you and then revert myself, claiming all the credit. Antelantalk 23:55, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

text: Damn. All that ctrl+f / del / paste, and you still beat me to it. All I got was a typo. Antelantalk 23:59, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You see, the Macintosh is a superior computer for editing on Wikipedia.  And all those years threading catheters in coronary arteries, has made my finger more dextrous for typing! OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 00:04, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Uhoh. All this typing on Wikipedia is going to make my fingers arthritic, which will be something of a liability when I begin threading catheters in coronary arteries. Antelantalk 00:14, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't worry.  The fluoroscopy will kill you first.  OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 01:03, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  MD or M.D. 

message: A brief mention of scope of practice would be appropriate near the top of the article.  Practice demographics might also be handy to make the article more robust.  Thoughts? CorticoSpinal (talk) 18:11, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scope of Practice 

message: This page from Cambridge, Higher Doctorates, lists Law, Science, Letters, Music, and Divinity as higher doctorates. This page, Doctor of Medicine Prizes, states that the degree is 'given to medically qualified graduates who submit a dissertation on an approved new area of research'. The page, Doctor of Medicine (DM), from Oxford states that, 'The DM degree is awarded on the basis of a thesis (or, for senior staff only, published work) on a medical subject previously approved by the Divisional Board.' Looking beyond Oxbridge, at UCL the MD degree is awarded on the basis of a 60,000-word thesis, has a supervisor, is completed over a recommended time period, and incurs tuition fees equal to those for an MPhil or PhD. Interestingly, it seems to be the only higher doctorate for which UCL has designed new academic dress.
These requirements seem very different to those for other higher doctorates, which are awarded exclusively on the basis of a body of published work and may represent the culmination of a life's work. In the case of Paul S. Fiddes, for example, the degree of Doctor of Divinity was conferred two years after he was appointed Professor of Systematic Theology, by which time he had written nine books. Rowan Williams became a DD three years after being appointed to the university's second most prestigious chair in Divinity, two years after the first edition of his masterpiece Arius: heresy and tradition and just one year before his election as a Fellow of the British Academy. G. E. M. de Ste. Croix became an FBA in 1972 but did not submit his work for the degree of DLitt until 1975. It seems that the degree of Doctor of Medicine can be obtained on the basis of a far less distinguished academic record than the other higher doctorates in divinity, laws, civil law, letters, literature, and science, and possibly music (which may be awarded on the basis of composition, which is not easily compared with a body of scholarship). It appears that it may even be awarded for a thesis of the same length as that submitted for the degrees of MLitt or MPhil. At Oxford there also seems to be the difference that one registers as a Student for the Degree of DM, whereas any other higher doctorate is awarded on the basis of work carried out in the course of one's career; nobody is ever a Student for the Degree of DLitt.--Oxonian2006 (talk) 16:41, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Status as higher doctorate

message: This entire section is too North American centric in its viewpoint and does not really fall in line with Wiki's neutral world view policy.  Why can't we simply create a simple point list of basic entry level equivalent medical qualifications from around the world that (in each country entitles one to practice medicine).  
Ex:
*MD, MDCM (US, Canada, Germany)
* MBBS, MB, MBChB, BMed, BMBS, BMBCh (UK + Commonwealth)
* MuDr (Czec)
* Titlo (Mexico)
etc etc etc
The section has the feeling like every other degree is being compared to the North American MD (as if its a gold standard or something).  1)  Not everyone wants to work in the United States.  2) No where is it written that the American medical education is the "gold standard".   Lets be a little more diplomatic and neutral with our article here.  Thanks  (anyone want to start the rewrite?)  Jwri7474 (talk) 13:11, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rewrite the section "equivalent degrees in other countries" 

message: what is a m.d. and what does m.d. stand for?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.219.168.152 (talk) 19:03, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  m.d. 

message: the oriental degree in south korea is not a m.d. degree 
it never was and never will be
its a degree focused on learning about acupuncture and herbs based on ancient chinese psuedoscience which has nothing to with science and with some papers thrown in about acutal science
someone who graduates from this oriental psuedoscience sit a completely different qualification national exam as a real m.d.
every Korean knows this please fix it  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.216.172.38 (talk) 04:57, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  regarding south korea 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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replies: text: There's nothing obviously wrong with the edit by the bot  - the archive links it added do work and display topical content once at now-dead links.  BUT, that source content does NOT really verify the article content.  I.e. no mention of main topics of the article content that uses the sources - the NIH or Nobel Laureates on the first page, or a (Título de Médico) on the second.  So  tags seem apropos.  Agreed?--Elvey(t•c) 18:18, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Should there be a section (or spread out content) on advertising and license verification?  What if anything makes it illegal (e.g. in the US, Israel and Russia) to advertise claiming to be a medical doctor or D.O. (and, e.g. claiming to be able to eliminate [all] disease including colon cancer) without appropriate licensing?  Who enforces it?  in essence, what's the equivalent of http://codes.findlaw.com/ca/business-and-professions-code/bpc-sect-4980.html for regular medical doctors? Apropos this, . --Elvey(t•c) 17:58, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm assuming you mean a Doctor of Medicine (M.D.) when you say medical doctor...anyway, such a discussion of holding physicians accountable for false/misleading advertising or for outright breaking the law would be better suited on the physician page, IMO. TylerDurden8823 (talk) 08:37, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: agree--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 10:26, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Does this pertain to a Wikipedia edit? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 19:52, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Advertising and license verification 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This text:
>>>The Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine (DO) degree, which is awarded by osteopathic medical schools, is the only professional equivalent to the MD degree in the United States and Canada. Osteopathic medical schools are accredited by the Commission on Osteopathic College Accreditation (COCA), an independent body sponsored by the American Osteopathic Association (AOA). The sole difference between the MD and the DO degrees is the additional musculoskeletal training in osteopathic manipulative treatment (OMT).<<<
has been reverted, supposedly because it was unsourced or off-topic. Please explain why information about the DO degree is not relevant to this article. DiverDave (talk) 15:17, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I had reverted the moving of that material to further up to near the top of a section. I hadn't removed it. Some of the other material that was added by other editors before and after yours was was unsourced or off-topic and that was what had caught my eye. There is a lot of unsourced material in this article, and a lot of people adding material that is on the broader topic of medical school rather than to the specific degree that is the of Doctor of Medicine. I had tried to clear some of the unsourced/off-topic material back in April but the article is already in such a mess. There are some legitimate comparisons to be made between MD and other degrees and this page already has a link at the top of the section to the article comparing MD and DO degrees. I didn't think that increasing the prominence of osteopathic degrees was an improvement to an article about a different degree. Drchriswilliams (talk) 16:26, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  text WRT DO degree 

message: The article goes to state that: "In Russia, medical Universities in Russia offer a 6-year curriculum leading to award Doctor of Medicine (MD) "Physician".". That's wrong. There no title like "Doctor of medicine" in Russia. There is a research degree of the Doctor of medical sciences which is the second research degree after the Candidate of medical sciences. Few practicing physicians in Russia hold such a degree. After medical university course, including some clinical practice, a graduate is awarded the professional title "Vrach" () which can be translated as "physician" (in the broader sense, i.e. it includes surgeons). Perhaps, the confusion arises because physicians/surgeons are colloquially adressed in Russia as "doctors", which does not reflect their official titles and is likely to be a vestige of the medical education and titling system of the Russian Empire. As to the Ukraine, I'm not sure, but in my opinion, it should be checked out whether ukrainian physicians really receive the title "Doctor of Medicine" just upon university graduation. Эйхер (talk) 17:06, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Russia and Ukraine 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Physician which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RMCD bot 16:59, 25 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move discussion in progress 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: As I looked at this article, the introduction was very messy and difficult to read. Among wordy sentences that said very little and/or were grammatically incomplete, I could discern this questionable claim: there is consensus that people with MD degrees should not be given the title "Dr." before their names. The paragraph refers to the Department of Education classification of the degree, but does not cite it. I did not read the entirety of the source that is cited, but searching it for any information regarding the Department of Education, debates, doctors, MDs, and a variety of other terms did not return any results even closely related to the claim in this article. I find no evidence of "Department of Education, historical application, and general international consensus" withholding the title of "Doctor" from physicians holding MD degrees. The highly questionable claim as well as the general messiness of the paragraph appear to be the result of anonymous edits made on December 14, 2018, by an IP address which has only made 9 edits total, 7 of which were within half an hour. Because of the untrustworthiness of the information, I am simply reverting these edits. If any grammatical errors remain in the reverted version, I will clean those up.
Jojopeanut (talk) 20:25, 25 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reverting unreadable anonymous article edits 

message: The history section starts off with someone being awarded an MD at Glasgow in 1703. That was not the first MD in the world, or Great Britain, or even in Scotland.
It goes on to explain why medical schools in the British Isles and Commonwealth give MB ChB (or similar) degrees instead of the MD. This is lifted from the Bachelor of Medicine, Bachelor of Surgery article and appears to be an inaccurate precis of my talk page entry of 2008 on "Why are there two two degrees?" Two issues are being conflated here. Early in the 19th century (I have no details at hand) the UK parliament laid down that ships' doctors and those employed in prisons and by the Poor Law authorities had to be qualified in both medicine and surgery. At that time Scottish medical graduates had an MD. There were very few medical graduates from Oxford and Cambridge: most English doctors had diplomas from both the Royal College of Surgeons and the Worshipful Society of Apothecaries in London. The Army Board was persuaded that Scottish MDs were qualified in both medicine and surgery, as both subjects were taught and examined for the degree, but English employers continued to discriminate against Scottish MD holders. As substantial numbers of Scottish graduates were actually from England and intended to return there, there was strong market pressure for a switch from one degree to two, even though there was still only one diploma. So it was not parliament or the General Medical Council which enforced the switch from MD to MB CM and later MB ChB. The change from MD to MB was a separate issue. NRPanikker (talk) 14:48, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  History Section 

message: I have removed the anonymous contributor's claim that Claude Bernard's "Doctorat en Médecine" was a Ph.D. The title page displayed says nothing about philosophy. His MD thesis may have been of the standard that could have got him a PhD elsewhere at that time, but that was not what the French system gave him. NRPanikker (talk) 13:55, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture of Claude Bernard's diploma 

message: I am just curious as to the reason the country of Japan is not included in the list of countries that describe doctoral/medical education. If it's merely because nobody's added it, I happily will. But that's the only legitimate reason it's not included. Japan isn't a third-world country and the scientific, technical and medical communities in Japan are respected world-wide by other doctors and scientists. So I was surprised to see, for instance Georgia and several third-world South American countries included in this list, but not Japan. I'm not ranting or anything. I'm just curious. I'd be happy to add the information myself if it's an issue of not being able to find references or simply forgetting, but don't want to "step on anyone's toes" if they are currently planning on or indeed actually writing such a section.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sdshepherdx (talk • contribs) 00:37, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Doctors in Japan 

message: fdh  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 42.111.38.228 (talk) 11:33, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Do I handed under retransmission a 

message: a  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.67.156.19 (talk) 11:45, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  anemul 

message: — Assignment last updated by Jahmyahill47 (talk) 20:31, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: English 102 Section 6