Talk:Dominican Republic/Archive 1

message: The map :image:LocationDominicanRepublic.png can be added to the new Dominican Republic page when it is created in the format set out by  WikiProject Countries. It is mentioned here so that whoever eventually makes the new page knows that the map already exists. - Vardion 09:21, 26 Oct 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: Location map

message: A controversy has erupted over the choice of map for this article. The two candidates are shown here, along with any others that other Wikipedians may choose to enter. Feel free to make any comments. The lower map may also appear in the corresponding Geography article for this country. Kelisi 03:07, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Country Map 

message: the reign of Rafael Leonidas Trujillo, there have been anti-Haitian pogroms, slaughtering 18 thousand of haitians at the border
Why is that bolded? It is awkward and is midsentance. I will change unless someone objects. --SeanMcG 00:35, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bold Text 

message: If anyone has any problems with the new section, please say so here. I know it's a bit messy and it extends the length of the page ten-fold, but I sincerely believe that the information it contains is relevant. Black-Velvet 14:04, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  International Affiliations 

message: Should it be noted somewhere that, according to the CIA world factbook the Dominican Republic has spend 0 dollars on military budget? Does it even have an army of it's own? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.75.7.78 (talk • contribs) 13:32, 2 August, 2006 .
: Yes, the Dominican Republic has armed forces with army, naval and air force divisions.  The 0 dollars on the CIA Factbook page is probably just an error. See  (armed forces) and   (army) - quique 01:54, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Military 

message: Who deleted the history section on this web-page. Their was some problems, but they should be remedied with editing, not with vandalism. With regard to the statement "it claims that  84% of Dominicans have African Ancestry" when 84% are physically black, whether mixed down the line or not, they are predominately black.  I would it's the "whites" that have some African ancestry, and whom may even be mulato themselves." Race is a SOCIAL CONSTRUCT, racial norms DO NOT clearly translate from one society to another. The black-white dichotomy in the U.S., in which any amount of African descent automatically makes one black, is not applicable to Latin America. The majority of Dominicans identify themselves as mixed-race, often as 'indio,' 'indio oscurro' and 'triguero,' don't insist that they really should be seen as black according to North American racial categories. Particularly instructive on this subject is H. Hoetink's Caribbean Race Relations (1971).
:Err, I would mostly agree, except, for one thing, about how Black is defined in the US.  A descendant of African slaves who happens to be very pale complexioned can "pass" for white and identify themselves as "white," and individuals have done so throughout US history.  There certainly has not been any legal prohibition against doing so in modern times.  Likewise, such a "white-looking" person can also identify themselves as "Black," especially when living in a Black community, and especially when raised by parents who have dark complexions.  One cannot argue that race is a social construction, and simultaneously argue about how African ancestry 'determines' race in the US. That puts one in the position of discriminating against peoples of Arabic-African, or northern African descent for one thing.  On the other hand, terms like "triguero" do shed some light on racial views of Dominicans, and it is appreciated. I would  also hope people can find more up-to-date references; for instance, generally US usage now favors the term African-American, which wasn't used back in 1971 Cuvtixo 20:04, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question about history section 

message: There is now a proposed WikiProject for the Caribbean area, including Anguilla, at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Caribbean. Interested parties should add their names there so we can determine if there is enough interest to start such a project in earnest. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 16:58, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed WikiProject 

message: The history section is piecemeal.  Centuries are totally overlooked while detailed sections like The arrival of the Guamikena (the covered ones) should be moved to the History of the Dominican Republic entry.
LuiKhuntek 03:36, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree.  I was looking for a brief overview and instead got way too much detail about the first few years of contact with Europeans and a very external overview of U.S. intervention. It looks like nothing happened since 1492 except the occasional U.S. intervention.  --Ajdz 06:18, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Just fyi- by "physically black," I assume you mean dark-skinned, having a dark complexion. Modern usage of "Black," at least in English, is as an ethnic self-identification, which as you correctly observe, does not depend solely on complexion or traced ancestry or lineage. By "Eurocentric" do you mean of modern political Europe, or by people who identify themselves by European ancestry? I fear a U.S-centric bias (whether liberal like Zinn or more politically conservative)   How do Dominicans, particularly dark-skinned descendants of African slaves, generally identify themselves? AfroCarribean, Mullatos, Mestizo, Creoles?  Surely there's a way to be sensitive without descending into political-correctness.  Cuvtixo 19:36, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: History Section

message: if they got their independence from haiti, why dont they speak french instead of spanish—Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.139.207.127 (talk • contribs) 
:Because they were a Spanish colony originally.--Cúchullain t/c 23:18, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  The story goes as follows. We should start by mentioning the fact that Haiti was split out of the Spanish Colony of Santo Domingo after the French took over the western region of the Hispaniola island in the 1700s (that region had been deserted because of constant sacking). Later on, the French were granted full dominion of the island. Haiti became independent from the French in 1804. Spanish had dominated the colony since 1492, and Haiti only dominated the Eastern Side of the island for 22 years. --Zavreio 22:43, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: um the Dominicans Declared formal Independence from the Spanish Ruling and after of a couple of Years The Haitians "Conquered" The Eastern Side after the fall of the "Ville of Santo Domingo" present Capital..Shortly after(22 Years), Dominicans became independent and they never adopted the French Speakings or Culture. EdwinCasadoBaez 02:11, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  French 

message: I was born and raised in the Dominican Republic.  As far as I can remember, I was taught in school that the natives Indians disappeared at the start of the colonial period and that African slaves replaced them.    Most Dominicans actually believe that, even thought that is not the whole story.
Fact is, a significant amount of the native Indians actually assimilated and in the early colonial times around the sixteen-century most were either called Spaniards in official figures, or were not counted at all.  Your wealth (or lack of) decided if you were counted or not.  Another fact is that early colonist did not brought along a lot of women with them, so they took Indians and African women as wives.  
Dr. Juan Martinez Cruzado, a geneticist from the University of Puerto Rico did a DNA survey in 2004.  I’m currently trying to find out about the actual results, although I remember hearing about it in a Discovery Channel piece about pre-Columbian cultures in the Dominican Republic.
This survey is based on a similar study conducted by Dr. Martinez in Puerto Rico.  This survey showed that “61 percent of all Puerto Ricans have Amerindian mitochondrial DNA, 27 percent have African and 12 percent Caucasian” .  
I also found an article by Dr. Lynne Guitar  about the Myth of the native Indians extinction, which I do recommend and should be taken into consideration in any discussion about the demography section in the Dominican Republic article.
It would be great if someone should incorporate this information in the article, since I don’t consider myself qualified for this task. 
Best regards,
Ulises Jorge
San Juan, PR
The problem is, you guys keep trying to rewrite history complicate a simple matter.  Race in DR is not so hard to define from the outside.  People know what a black person looks like.  That would be 99% of DR's.  When looking at African-Americans only (in most people's minds, they are the only ones who can be mixed...), then you see the various types from mixing with the different types of white.  FOr any type of PR that you can show me, I can show you an AA with the same look.  I think DR's want to run away from their blackness by trying make it appear as if they are so mixed.  If you were so mixed, you would not look so black.  I know that the DR 'government' looks mixed is is in a minority in appearance for the whole country.  PR's are mixed, but only with black and white-like (Spaniards who were already a little mixed with the Moorish blood, so the pure white claims are gone with that too!), not this native blood that both groups seem to want to resort to.
You are clearly trying to fool yourselves into thinking that you are dark because you are natives.  PR's and DR's DO NOT look like Mexicans who are natives.  Every now and then, I my see a 'touch' of it in some faces(while most of their make up is black or white-styled), but this could be recent and not from 500 years ago.  It is sad what colonialism can do to the minds of it's victims.  To think, if AA's were allowed to be accepted into US society, they too would think that same these uncle tom PR' and DR's(in general) and no one on earth would have an idea of blackness and the total enslavement of the black mind would have been complete.  It goes to show what racism can do.  It can back fire on the racists!  Now white women want black men.  GO figure.--71.235.81.39 14:46, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Myth of the Native People total annihilation 

message: * No, they are not.  Dominica is a former British Colony and the Dominican Republic was a Spanish Colony.
Ulises 12:14, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nothing close in relation are in between Dominica And DOm.REp...the only similar thing is that they are both in the Antilles and Tropics...Thats about it becuause they hold different cultures too!EdwinCasadoBaez 02:04, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Question

message: Guys Theirs No other choice but to semi protect this page...Ugly Vandalism is a plague in this page.. Is becoming uglier and uglier to the point that we have to protect it by any means. I have already received several bad comments about how bad this article is becoming...and this is making wikipedia less trustworthy..please do not revert my descicion.And if you dont belive it,look at the history section a few days ago!EdwinCasadoBaez 21:43, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Not A Great Decision But I have to Semi-Protect