Talk:Motorcycle personal protective equipment

message: I am thinking of moving this page to "motorcycle safety gear" and including some information from the helmet article. Clawed 22:14, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Pictured individual is wearing sneakers, not motorcycle boots or even proper ankle-height boots. Were he in a collision his ankle could be broken or possibly worse, I don't think this really properly illustrates the idea of the article.
:I agree. Also, I think a picture of someone wearing leathers rather than textiles would illustrate the point more clearly - to most non-motorcyclists textile gear doesn't look all that different from normal clothing. --^pirate 16:31, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture of Individual in Safety Clothing 

message: There's some overlap between what's here and what's in Motorcycle_safety#Personal_Protective_Equipment.  Perhaps it would be best if that section pointed to this article.  I agree with clawed that this article should be moved under a new title.  Brianhe 06:18, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merging? 

message: The section Motorcycle jacket guide looks like an advertisement.  I'm inclined to remove this whole section.  Is it even original writing?  No clue as to identity of the submitter, just an IP address.  I suggest that it be recreated in the appropriate place for original works, perhaps on Wikisource or the author's own web site, then linked to this article, if appropriate.  Brianhe 15:39, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Deleted it, saved a sentence or two under "Leathers". -- Brianhe 01:27, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Buying guide section

message: Marlon Brando actually wears a Schott Cafe Racer jacket in The Wild One 211.27.39.36 16:56, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wild One 

message: A Motorcycle Airbag Jacket is probably significant enough to be included in this article. I can not find any article for the item itself, either. This is a pretty big development in the world of motorcycle safety, yet it has no mention here whatsoever. --Ihmhi 05:33, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There are at least two makers, Hit-Air and MotoAir.  Lengthy review of the latter can be found on Webbikeworld. See also Motorcycle Safety#Airbag Devices. --Brianhe 05:44, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Motorcycle Airbag Jacket 

message: The section that specifies the tear and abrasion strengths of the different materials needs a citation.  I think it comes directly from a motorcycle gear manufacturer's web page (motoport / cycleport).  If that is the case, it would probably be wise to find some independent verification.  At the very least, information from a source with a vested interest should be viewed sceptically.
63.199.71.135 (talk) 18:55, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  by the numbers section 

message: The chart listing potential failure points and tear resistance is copied almost verbatim from a manufacturer of kevlar motorcycle protective wear. Perhaps unsuprisingly, kevlar then gets a very high rating..  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.11.171.7 (talk) 19:38, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Potential Bias  

message: See also discussion: Talk:Belstaff#Real_motorcycle_jackets. 
Since this is the main article for the category, I wanted to alert that I'm going to create a new category :Category:Motorcycle gear under :Category:Motorcycle technology and put  :Category:Motorcycle safety gear under it.  The new category would include pretty much everything you might wear on a motorcycle, or that riders wore in the past.  Would cover not just crash protection, but fashion, style, advertising logos on clothing, and the oft-neglected topic of weather protection.  Lots of gear is worn to keep you warm, cool, or dry, not to prevent crash injuries.  
Also thinking of renaming this page to Motorcycle safety gear to align it with the category it represents.  In common speech, helmets, goggles and such are not usually called "clothing" but rather "gear" or "equipment".  --Dbratland (talk) 19:21, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: So long as the :Category:Motorcycle safety gear continues to represent gear which has been designed with the intent of being motorcycle safety gear, rather than something impromptu like using a hockey helmet, I don't see a problem, and it would naturally be a subset of :Category:Motorcycle gear. AndroidCat (talk) 21:46, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm a little concerned over this becoming a subjective "is so/is not" argument over whether a particular item is fashion or safety gear.  This question could be applied to many articles Icon makes, for example.  Even Aerostich Roadcrafters aren't CE approved, so are they safety gear or just gear (even more so for Darien). Is it possible to make meaningful objective criteria for the two categories? -- Brianhe (talk) 03:39, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I was also thinking of Aerostich previously. They don't have CE approved armor, but they do explain in detail why the armor that they do have isn't (they've rearranged their site since I last looked, but I'm sure it's still there somewhere). There's a clear safety intent, design, recognition of safety standards (even if they don't toe the CE line), use of recognized safety materials and ratings of such. My concern is that through use of the NPOV-hammer (along with its friends OR and Notability), it will be impossible to exclude gear that clearly isn't motorcycle safety gear like fashion leather jackets, which have no armor, no motorcycle-grade leather or stitching, weren't designed with any riding safety in mind, have no concept of safety standards, and are designed for the fashion runways rather than the highways. (Certainly people can ride with fashion jackets, just like they can with t-shirts. Neither are safety gear.) Wikipedia editors aren't supposed to insert their opinions, but they shouldn't be mindless automatons either. AndroidCat (talk) 05:02, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intent to move around categories a little bit. 

message: There is some discussion about removing the article Rocker jacket, as there is question whether that term is current. I suggest it would be good in this article to include a photo of the "classic" iconic black leather motorcycle jacket the link to Perfecto motorcycle jacket.  This article should delineate the difference between the "classic" jacket as adopted by Punk rock and other subcultures and gear worn by actual motorcyclists. Wlindley (talk) 14:47, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possibly replacing 'rocker jacket' 

message: For some reason there is an ad for a War of the Worlds leather jacket store at the bottom of the Leathers section. It needs to go.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.191.171.11 (talk) 13:08, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Read WP:BOLD and then do it yourself in future! Happily there are a number of editors, probably the vast majority, who will not tolerate spam on Wikipedia and so links like this quickly get deleted. Thanks for the heads up though. --Biker Biker (talk) 15:43, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Advertising under the "Leathers" section needs to be removed 

message: My article SuperFabric was tagged as an orphan so I tried creating links in related articles.  The material is important to motorcycle protective equipment and apparel, so I wish to mention it, just as Kevlar, Gore-Tex, and Cordura are mentioned.  How is mentioning those brands not borderline advertising?  Or how can I properly write something about this material?  ThanksJulieskim0202 (talk) 21:54, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Please discuss it with the user who removed it; if that fails, see WP:DISPUTE. I will copy this to User talk:Tedder.   Chzz  ►  22:04, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Julieskim, plenty of reliable sources can be easily found discussing Kevlar and Cordura as fabrics used for motorcycle gear. However, ownership issues aside, adding SuperFabric seems to be part of an attempt to advertise the fabric. Simply adding in the name of "keeping it from being an orphan" doesn't make it immune from being an advertisement of the material. As far as I know, SuperFabric is only used by Rev'it, who doesn't even have an article. I'd suggest reading WP:PROMO, and hopefully others will chime in here as well. tedder (talk) 22:18, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I would agree.  Gore-Tex has hundreds of pages that link to it, from Libertarian socialism to Connecticut State Police to Eddie Bauer.  These links have nothing to do with advertising; they exist because Gore-Tex is important in many different contexts.<P>SuperFabric is almost non-notable.  It is rarely mentioned in independent books, newspapers or magazines except in conduits for press releases such as DealerNews.  The most significant mention I can find is the book Extreme Textiles, a book that is clearly fails to cast a critical eye on its subject, and it is only one book.<P>The article SuperFabric probably just barely avoids the criteria for deletion due to this book and a bare handful of mentions in a few news articles.  But it should keep the  tag until independent sources can be found which connect SuperFabric with other subjects.  These same sources should be used to beef up the references in the article itself. --Dbratland (talk) 22:39, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

text: First, you don't need to use the helpme. Second, don't worry about getting it included here. If it gets to be well-used, it'll be mentioned. At this point it's verging advertising, okay? tedder (talk) 17:42, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

text: Yes, at this point, it'd be better to rely on other editors to add the links. Be careful calling it "mine", Wikipedia has a policy against ownership of articles. But yeah, especially with commercial articles, you'll have to be careful with conflict of interest to avoid making the article seem like an advertisement/spam/promotional. tedder (talk) 18:18, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  SuperFabric 

message: This document from the NTSB Forum on Motorcycle Safety looks like an excellent reference covering all the major European PPE safety standards. If I have the time I'll start incorporating it into the article - unless others fancy doing so first.--Biker Biker (talk) 12:57, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good reference material 

message: Not even close; I was looking for NASCAR/Indy Racing Suits, not motorcycle racing suit. Please remove the Redirect sdo I CAN find what I was looking for.97.120.230.36 (talk) 18:35, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: fixed. --Dbratland (talk) 20:42, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Not What I Was Looking For

message: The [Belt] seems to be a viable option to merge with this article, given its increasing popularity among off and on-road cyclists. I would do so myself, but I wouldn't be able to without ruining something. So if someone could please get on that when they have a moment, the link is given. --ICommando (talk) 00:54, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: First, Kidney belt should be referenced such that we all understand in what way it is actually protective equipment. — Brianhe (talk) 02:23, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Equipment Add?

message: The phrase "Personal Protective Equipment (PPE)" is enshrined in EU law, and refers to protective equipment in the workplace.  Essentially it says that anything intended as a protective garment is designated a PPE item and as such must comply with certain safety requirements.
The PPE regulations mention that items sold for motorcycle protective use, must assert their PPE status at the point of sale. However it does not go into depth on actual protective elements, which is what this wiki article is aimed at. 
Titling this wiki article as Personal Protective Equipment can imply that all motorcycle equipment is PPE by default, which is misleading.
 Directive 89/686/EEC on personal protective equipment (PPE)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_protective_equipment  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.20.12.53 (talk) 13:31, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confuses EU regulations with general concepts 

message: I just reverted an edit  that changed "in any state" to "in the United States or the UK". Reasoning: I know of at least one jurisdiction, not a state, in the U.S. which does require PPE beyond a helmet: some military installations depending on the individual commanding officer. Other U.S. non-State entities, such as federally recognized Indian reservations, may have their own requirements as well. - Brianhe (talk) 02:59, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Way to much detail to get into. This isn't a travel guide or how-to guide for those wanting to ride. Motorcycling at WikiVoyage is the perfect place for this type of state-by-state or country-by-country guidance, for those moving around and wanting to know what they need before the go. This is based on WP:NOTGUIDE #2, which is part of why Wikivoyage was created. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 03:04, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Errr ... Dennis, do you mean we should strike the entire sentence that starts with "Except for helmets, none of these items are required by law..."? - Brianhe (talk) 03:20, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. And I still have a dream of refactoring this entire article into "motorcycle gear" or "motorcycle clothing" or "motorcycle kit" (UK). Crash protection is only one of at least three, probably five, main purposes of these clothing items. PPE is a weird, technical term totally out of the mainstream, and reveals a disconnect with the real reasons normal people buy motorcycle jackets, boots, gloves, pants, suits, etc. But that's a big project, and I'm not available for it now.<P>Directing the nitty gritty of regulation over to WikiVoyage would also be good for all, editors, readers, and Wikipedia. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 03:41, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: With reference to the closed section below  then .Whereas it is not ostensibly 'wrong', and I have seen it in Motorcycle News, it is not, IMO, commonplace conversational parlance to refer to it as kit. More-probably a word/space-saving expedient in the author or sub-editor's tool-kit.Kit is normally something carried in a holdall and conveyed to a venue, were it is worn, and removed afterwards; it is probably derived from a contraction of P.E. Kit (or PT Kit, both shown capitalised as a title - PE=Physical Education, PT=Physical Training). I have my father's kit bag from WWII - he wore a uniform or battledress, not kit, a catch-all term which also encompassed domestic/survival items.A then-trendy 1960s term was clobber - probably from clobbered-up, meaning encumbered or uncomfortable. Motorcycle Riding Gear would possibly be the most-'normal' phrase - evidenced by the double-entendre and (defunct) brand, Bikers Gearbox.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 19:49, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm very wary of conventional wisdom around military slang. Backronyms that Bowlderize the original derivation are common, e.g. "Big Ugly Fat Fellow" for the B-52, "Fouled up beyond all reason" for FUBAR, etc.. ☆ Bri (talk) 00:20, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Required PPE 

message: The caption on :File:Motorcycle rider and passenger in leathers on Suzuki Bandit at Ace Cafe.jpg I have amended to delete the word "racing"; the rider's apparel is largely obscured, hence indeterminate for detail, but the passenger is clearly wearing two-piece leathers with the legend Pro Sports. These two-piece types I do not believe to be race-compliant.The style is known as Hein Gericke 'Tribal'; the same image appears on Leather jacket and I have tweaked the caption a little there. I knew about this for a long time but forgot until some turned up near me on ebay UK, although the lowers have a different colourway.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 00:01, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Caption change