Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Gender studies/Archive 3

message: partial cross post from Talk:feminism
Fat feminism and Amazon feminism are full of original research and Amazon feminism might have plagiarism issues.  If anyone can help with these articles please do.  I am thoroughly uncertain of Amazon and Fat feminism's notability - at the moment they almost look like hoax articles due to the serious amount of OR on those pages.  I'm going to give them 3 weeks to improve - if they can't be sourced and rationalized by then we'll have to send them to AfD--Cailil  talk 13:42, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fat feminism & Amazon feminism 

message: I've created a portal for Gender studies and Grrrlriot created Portal:Feminism - anyone care to contribute, check it out, and/or offer suggestions or criticisms? Thanks! --Phyesalis (talk) 19:58, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The portals are new, so they are under construction. Hope to have more information up soon. --Grrrlriot (talk) 22:43, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've done some work on Portal:Men's rights.  The major issue there is lack of pictures at the commons--Cailil  talk 17:39, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Portal:Men's rights is looking good, Cailil. --Grrrlriot (talk) 23:33, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Portal:Gender studies]] 

message: Hey, I've posted award requests over at User:The Transhumanist/Award Center for improvements to Portal:Gender studies and for new articles on non-Christian feminist theologians, particularly Riffat Hassan. I'm thinking this might be a good idea for a project task - post a few reward offers regularly, help attract new blood, promote collaboration and article improvement. Thoughts? --Phyesalis (talk) 23:02, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a great idea. :) I am still thinking of making the feminism task force, but should it be part of the portal or a subproject of this wikiproject? --Grrrlriot (talk) 02:14, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Related question: Should the "feminism-task-force=yes" line be included in the Gender Studies project banner? – Scartol • Tok 14:16, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Too late! I've already taken the bold step of adding it. I hope it's not a problem. – Scartol • Tok 14:29, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That's fine, Scartol. It's a good idea and thanks for doing that! --Grrrlriot (talk) 17:20, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Award center 

message: Hi. I've added Gender-bait to this project's listing (tagged the talkpage). There are some questions about the appropriate/best term or title for this behavior, that I've asked at the talkpage. I'd welcome any feedback, information, or insight. Thanks. -- Quiddity (talk) 22:48, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gender-bait 

message: I wanted to let you know that this article seems to be written from a Conservative Islamist perspective, and that something should be done. --Lionheart Omega (talk) 00:41, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Problem with Gender Roles in Afghanistan 

message: The to do list has been restarted.  Everything on there was over a year old and as stated above gave an impression of polarization.  Inline with WP:TODO this page is now using  properly.  Old posts to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Gender Studies/to do have been archived at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Gender_Studies/Archive_4#Archives_from_Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Gender_Studies.2Fto_do].  I'm removing the 'To Do List' link from the Nav Box as editors will see it here and be able to review/edit it from this page--Cailil  talk 00:29, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Restarting to do list 

message: Hi! Just advising of the creation of this new category, if any one wants to fill it up or refine it. Cheers! Tazmaniacs (talk) 22:07, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[:Category:Black feminism]] 

message: I created this article, because when I searched for her on Wikipedia, I got a different person and I was a bit confused. Mainly to avoid confusing people, I created disambiguation pages and a stub. Then I realized that I'm not really so interested in developing that article... Since it seems she has made important contributions to gender studies, I was hoping that maybe someone here would be interested in adopting her bio. Thanks, Merzul (talk) 09:58, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Deborah Cameron (linguist)]] 

message: I made her an article yesterday just because she was a red link on Fasting girls.  I'd not heard of her before.  I just mentioned a bit, then I had to go out, but I think there's loads to be written about this person and her work.  It's not just girls- she's written about boys too.  So I hope one of you will feel like chipping in on the article.:) Merkin's  mum 14:05, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Joan Jacobs Brumberg]] 

message: Can someone from the project take a look at List of genders? I don't know much about gender studies but it still strikes me as very very weird to consider aunt, dad or dude as genders. Clearly the list is in dire need of context because most people understand the term "gender" as meaning either male or female. But even taking the more general gender-studies meaning, the list is puzzling. Perhaps the list can be renamed as list of sexual identities or something like that, though it's still unclear why monk (!), brother or girlfriend should appear in the list. If this can't be put in proper context, I'll submit the article to AfD in a few days. Thanks, Pichpich (talk) 19:42, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I have speedy-deleted it as nonsense. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:48, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: he he... I guess that solves the problem. Pichpich (talk) 20:53, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help needed with bizarre list article 

message: This declaration may be of interest to the project.  --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 15:22, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  article of interest 

message: I'd appreciate some input from memebers of this Project on the masculine disambiguation page, part of which was recently changed from "Masculinity [is] a traditionally male gender role" to "Masculine normally refers to positive qualities associated with men". I feel fairly sure that it's often used in a negative or neutral manner, particularly but by no means exclusively when referring to masculine women. However, I don't really have much experience with the gender studies literature, so I'd be very appreciative of anyone who could come and confirm or deny my belief and point out some references. Thanks! Olaf Davis | Talk 08:08, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This project shuns those who don't share the appropriate POV, and yet I completely agree that this change is ridiculous.  I don't think what "sources" have to say about masculinity is nearly as relevant as a bold, disputed claim about what masculinity is.  Let's face it -- we all know what it is.  It's what properties we attribute to it that are debated.  Blackworm (talk) 08:30, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Nevertheless, I've been asked at Talk:masculine for a reference saying that the word's not always used with positive connotations, and providing one seems like the best way to achieve consensus. Olaf Davis | Talk 08:47, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

text: Hi Olaf, I've left a note at Talk:masculine--Cailil  talk 15:25, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

text: Left a comment, actually. -22:38, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

text: Our consensus on Talk:Feminine being dismissed by the poster, and despite his characteristically prolonged defenses, he still hasn't repaired the imprecise, misleading, and definitively POV word "positive". Judging as impartially as I can from his talk page histories, (rather than from his assertions), he likely won't concede until we spend exhaustive amounts of time refuting a petit insistence, and until he decides that he alone is convinced of its merit. He also, judging from his histories, considers himself the expert on Gender, and so these qualities of discussion are very likely to be encountered by this WikiProject again. Wikipedia is not a democracy, but it is an encyclopedia that anyone can edit. Cailil, I notice you take up WP:AN/I issues. I encourage you to look into this poster's contributions, and help us decide if his talk-page pedantry is calling into question his otherwise quality scholarship. Thanks, Yamara ✉ 04:15, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Naturally, general thoughts on how to proceed with Feminine and Masculine would be helpful, too. :) Yamara ✉ 04:29, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

text: Thanks, Cailil. I hope I intend to AGF at every turn, and was reluctant to post the above, but I believe I was detecting a pattern. I hope I was mistaken. Cheers, Yamara ✉ 05:40, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Masculine DAB 

message: This article, with the exception of one sentence, lacks information on any religions other than Judaism and Christianity.  Can people knowledgable about other religions help expand it?  Thanks, --Alynna (talk) 00:30, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help with [[Gender and religion]] 

message: (reposted from Portal_talk:Feminism)
Essentially, variations on Gender equality had been hijacked six or so months ago by redirects to both Zygarchy and Equalism, and had actually begun to affect the conversation across the internet. 
This is bad news, as these terms have nothing behind them but ill-defined assertions. I've rarely been embarrassed for Wikipedia, but this is one of those moments where the site's power was left in the hands of POV/OR mischief-makers.
"Zygarchy" is a made-up word that would never meet the WP:NEO standard if anyone had caught it. It has never meant "rule of two genders" before someone asserted it on Wikipedia. There are a couple hundred blogs out there crowing about the "new word they'd learned" while learning less than zero about notable, verifiable internationally-established gender policy. (Somewhat ominously, "zygarchy" is an obscure but genuine term for an ancient military formation involving two chariots. I think the chariots were used to run infantry over... or to cut them down with a chain between them...)
"Equalism" has been used by notable sources and scholars-- but never consistently. There was some effort to use it to refer to communism in the fifties, anarchism at various points, and some among the Facebook crowd seem to like it better than "feminism"; one news citation in Sweden counts it as a subset of feminism. That is to say, it's a semantic game: There is no "-ism" there, just a desire for one, a moving target without a developed philosophy behind it. I've redirected it to a far more notable article, Egalitarianism.
Nearly every instance of a wikilink to Gender equality had been piped to Equalism. That's what last night was all about for me: finding and removing the plumbing from this phantasm.
I've reestablished the Gender equality article with cites to the UN and an external link to the World Bank. I've added it to the various gender studies and feminism templates. This is one of this project's central concepts, and we really have to watch these pages. Cheers, Yamara ✉ 21:43, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gender equality is one of this project's central concepts. It was AWOL. 

message: Since the creation of the feminism task force I've been looking at the project's use of Wikipedia:WikiProject_Gender_Studies/translation, Wikipedia:WikiProject_Gender_Studies/Collaboration and Wikipedia:WikiProject_Gender_Studies/Notice_Board.  Or rather our lack of use for them - I think it's time to delete them.
Also I've marked Wikipedia:WikiProject_Gender_Studies/Countering Systemic Gender Bias‎ as  - it was put there until a separate project was established - but nothing ever happened - it may no longer be necessary--Cailil  talk 18:31, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If nobody has any objections to this I'm proposing to do this by July 1st--Cailil  talk 22:59, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay before I do this I'll just ask again in case anyone disagrees--Cailil  talk 11:56, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm making the change - please revert and discuss if anyone has a problem--Cailil  talk 15:54, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pages that may no longer be of use 

message: This is related to the above but slightly divergent (hence the separate sub-section). I'd like to suggest we consider changing the project's Overview to something like:
This project is for editors with knowledge or an interest in gender studies and who want to help improve articles about the topic. All that's required to join is an understanding of wikipedia's core principles and an interest in improving and collaborating on articles within this project's scope.
Any thoughts?--Cailil  talk 18:47, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If nobody has any objections to this I'm proposing to do this by July 1st--Cailil  talk 22:59, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay before I do this I'll just ask again in case anyone disagrees--Cailil  talk 11:56, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm making the change - please revert and discuss if anyone has a problem--Cailil  talk 15:54, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Change to the Project Aims

message: *"Observation suggests that males are over-represented on Wikipedia, though there has not been a proper survey to back this up."   
    
One would expect that given this 'statistic' (half-truth, you would find an anti-female opinion. In fact many threads have the opposite, suggesting the assumption that 'males' are pro-male, or anti-female is incorrect.   
    
Evidence in www.wikipedia.com relating to correcting an anti-male bias has resulted in some cases of 'men' or so they say they are defending the anti-male perspective.   
   
The isolation of gender only as a valid logical    
parameter is only part of the story.   
    
We should be careful in jumping to conclusions and or using generalized black and white logic to make conclusions.   
    
 Criticism of Criticism   
    
This is a classic example of a paradox, and shallow reasoning or flawed logic. (Truth can lie) 
(my mistake I had thought it was originally posted on a talk page)
--Caesar J. B. Squitti  :  Son of Maryann Rosso and Arthur Natale Squitti 19:52, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gender assumptions 

message: See Talk:Judith Butler and Talk:Influence of Judith Butler's concepts. Thanks! Hyacinth (talk) 03:29, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Judith Butler reception: [[WP:SUMMARY|Summary style]] or [[WP:POV fork|POV fork]]? 

message: I've found that women are statistically less well-represented in Wikipedia than they are in the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography. I've put a list of women prominent in ODNB but lacking a Wikipedia page on my userpage. Dsp13 (talk) 11:14, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Women in [[ODNB]] absent from Wikipedia 

message: As part of the WikiProject Good Articles, we're doing sweeps to go over all of the current GAs and see if they still meet the GA criteria and I'm specifically going over all of the "Culture and Society" articles. I have reviewed Gender and believe the article currently meets the majority of the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. I have left this message at this WikiProject's talk page so that any interested members can assist in helping the article keep its GA status. In reviewing the article, I have found there are a few issues that may need to be addressed, and I'll leave the article on hold for seven days for them to be fixed. I have left messages on the talk pages of the main contributors of the article along with several other WikiProjects. Please consider helping address the several points that I listed on the talk page of the article, which shouldn't take too long to fix if multiple editors assist in the workload. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. Happy editing! --Nehrams2020 (talk) 08:12, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Gender]] GA Sweeps Review: On Hold 

message: As you may have heard, we at the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial Team recently made some changes to the assessment scale, including the addition of a new level.  The new description is available at WP:ASSESS.
*The new C-Class represents articles that are beyond the basic Start-Class, but which need additional references or cleanup to meet the standards for B-Class.  
*The criteria for B-Class have been tightened up with the addition of a rubric, and are now more in line with the stricter standards already used at some projects.  
*A-Class article reviews will now need more than one person, as described here.  
Each WikiProject should already have a new C-Class category at :Category:C-Class_articles.  If your project elects not to use the new level, you can simply delete your WikiProject's C-Class category and clarify any amendments on your project's assessment/discussion pages.  The bot is already finding and listing C-Class articles. 
Please leave a message with us if you have any queries regarding the introduction of the revised scheme.  This scheme should allow the team to start producing offline selections for your project and the wider community within the next year.  Thanks for using the Wikipedia 1.0 scheme! For the 1.0 Editorial Team, §hepBot (Disable) 21:49, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Changes to the WP:1.0 assessment scheme 

message: Currently, 782 articles are assigned to this project, of which 338, or 43.2%, are flagged for cleanup of some sort. (Data as of .) Are you interested in finding out more? I am offering to generate cleanup to-do lists on a project or work group level. See User:B. Wolterding/Cleanup listings for details. Subscribing is easy - just add a template to your project page. If you want to respond to this canned message, please do so at my user talk page. --B. Wolterding (talk) 18:45, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Articles flagged for cleanup 

message: per the "women in politics" category... I'm going to try and work on it as well, but Mireya Moscoso, about Panama's first female president, could use some serious BLP/NPOV/referencing love. Most of the article is currently taken up with corruption allegations; what else did she do? -- phoebe / (talk to me) 15:21, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mireya Moscoso 

message: See newly generated cleanup listing for this project, at Wikipedia:WikiProject Gender Studies/Cleanup listing. --Cirt (talk) 12:22, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup listing 

message: "Harriet Taylor Mill ... was a philosopher and women's rights advocate. She was an original member of the Kensington Society that produced the first petition requesting votes for women." -- The Kensington Society sounds like an interesting subject but is currently a redlink. Can anybody start a stub on this? Thanks. -- 201.17.36.246 (talk) 04:05, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Kensington Society (suffragette group)|Kensington Society]]: first petition for votes for women 

message: Portal:Feminism has had a lot of changes and work recently and is currently up for portal peer review. Comments would be appreciated at Wikipedia:Portal peer review/Feminism/archive1. Thank you, Cirt (talk) 23:36, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Portal:Feminism]] 

message: Is it time to archive this page?  The oldest comments are over a year old.  Better yet, can we get a bot archiving old discussions (the LGBT project has something like that)? --Alynna (talk) 21:19, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I found some instructions for setting up auto-archiving, if we want that.  --Alynna (talk) 21:22, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yay!  Cirt has set up archiving.  Thanks, Cirt.  The last archiving seems to have gone to Archive 1 - is that where it should go? --Alynna (talk) 22:04, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  archive? 

message: The Transgender portal needs some content added. There's some there now, but not as much as there should be.
(Cross-posted to the LGBT Studies wikiproject.) --Alynna (talk) 22:47, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Portal:Transgender]] 

message: Was a requested article.  Just thought I'd let you know it's here now in case any of you feel like expanding on it. Sticky Parkin 02:43, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Eligible bachelor]] 

message: Just as a heads up, the article on Margaret Fuller is a candidate for featured article. Feel free to comment here: Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Margaret Fuller. Thanks. --Midnightdreary (talk) 18:12, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Relevant article nominated for featured 

message: Wikipedia 0.7 is a collection of English Wikipedia articles due to be released on DVD, and available for free download, later this year. The Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team has made an automated selection of articles for Version 0.7.
We would like to ask you to review the articles selected from this project. These were chosen from the articles with this project's talk page tag, based on the rated importance and quality. If there are any specific articles that should be removed, please let us know at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.7. You can also nominate additional articles for release, following the procedure at Wikipedia:Release Version Nominations. 
A list of selected articles with cleanup tags, sorted by project, is available. The list is automatically updated each hour when it is loaded. Please try to fix any urgent problems in the selected articles. A team of copyeditors has agreed to help with copyediting requests, although you should try to fix simple issues on your own if possible. 
We would also appreciate your help in identifying the version of each article that you think we should use, to help avoid vandalism or POV issues. These versions can be recorded at this project's subpage of User:SelectionBot/0.7. We are planning to release the selection for the holiday season, so we ask you to select the revisions before October 20. At that time, we will use an automatic process to identify which version of each article to release, if no version has been manually selected. Thanks! For the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial team, SelectionBot 23:26, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia 0.7 articles have been selected for Gender Studies 

message: This article could stand to have a few more eyes on it.  I completely re-did the article.  The talk page has comments by disappointed people looking for the history of women's rights in Iran, and this article fell far, far short.  It was factually incorrect not only to its past history, but to the current state.  There is no Women's rights in Iran article (although there is an LGBT rights in Iran), and the apparent idea behind keeping this article circumcised is that it was about women's achievements made by women, which is more than silly given that in a male-dominated society such as Iran, few women achieve rights simply on their own.  That contention is also not backed by the fact it asserted women were liberated from their homes by Ayatollah Khomeini; in fact, women protested the Khomeini government from the outset.  Important gains made under the shah were not only neglected, but seemingly non-existent.  I heavily sourced the article and re-wrote it.  It certainly could use more work; I think an article on Achievements of Iranian women is merited, but this article certainly is not it.  Indeed, it should probably be moved to Women's rights in Iran.  Could stand some gender equality-minded folks looking at it.  --David Shankbone 02:11, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Iranian women's movement]] 

message: *Update: Portal:Feminism has recently become a Featured Portal.  All of the articles at Portal:Feminism in the "Selected article" and "Selected biography" sections are of Featured Quality Status, and there are some great contributors who have churned out interesting WP:DYKs. Thanks to the efforts of folks from this project, for churning out such great high-quality material!  Keep up the great work getting articles to Good Article and Featured Quality Status ! Cirt (talk) 22:17, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Update on The Feminism Portal 

message: Please visit Ramba (comics) and weigh in. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 04:41, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  removal of image 

message: I added the tag for this project to this article today. Kinda thought y'all might be interested in it. Hell, I might be interested in it... --Moni3 (talk) 16:21, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Equal Rights Amendment]] 

message: nominated French law on secularity and conspicuous religious symbols in schools for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:31, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  French law on secularity and conspicuous religious symbols in schools FAR 

message: We're having a discussion involving very divided views on wikipolicy on this page and need input from this project. Thanks, Wrad (talk) 05:13, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Male privilege]] 

message: I wonder if an administrator with this WikiProject can help us with with what seems to be an impasse regarding the Category:Female wartime crossdressers..  A user who started the category has put up a lengthy explanation for what constitutes eligability for the category, and excludes Joan of Arc from it on the basis of this text that she wrote, despite the fact that Joan fits as far as the title goes.  (And as far as the linked sister list of wartime crossdressers is concerned.)  I'm not aware of any allowance for categories to be for something other than exactly what the title says they're for, and and am doubly certain that articles which fit oughtn't be excluded.  I think that if the category is about passing (gender) and not crossdressing the title must be changed to reflect that.  Or that the notice must be removed and Joan and the few others who qualify under the existing title must be permitted as well.  I prefer the latter, being less disruptive, but would support the former if consensus leans toward favoring precision.  -- AvatarMN (talk) 01:14, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow, don't everybody jump at once.  -- AvatarMN (talk) 06:49, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Category:Female wartime crossdressers