Talk:Sabbath in Christianity/Archive 2

message: Isn't the part of this article that speaks of Revelations only one possible interpretation of the text? To my knowledge the word "Sabbath" does not appear in the Book of Revelation. I think the author is speaking of the verse:
"Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." -Revelation 14:12
I realize Jesus earlier called himself "Lord also of the Sabbath" but this was more him expressing his superiority over the Sabbath rather than the wholehearted endorsement the article suggests. I recommend that bullet be altered as to not represent a single school of opinion or removed entirely. VincentValentine 13:21, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes Vincent, this verse is just one of over 200 in which the Law, or keeping the commandments are mentioned in the Christian New Testament. The commandments are generally agreed to be understood as the Ten Commandments, by most scholars. The Law is commonly agreed upon to be the complete ordinances written in the first five books of the bible, or the Torah in Hebrew. All of these ordinances are understood to be amplification of the basic ten commandments given at Sinai. To include the fourth or Sabbath commandment as a requirement of the ten commandments is not a single school of thought. One may hold an opinion of the timing of the Sabbath commandment, but the common and primary understanding is still the seventh day of the week from dusk to dusk. Timing may be worthy of discussion, but removal would be a withholding of common understanding in order to appease a POV. --Kevin 03:20, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Reference your claims. Plus the arguments is about whether or not this page should be a straight disambig, which it isn't currently. Vincent Valentine 04:33, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

text: A disambiguation could be done to separate the two articles. This could be an improvement. As for references to what law and commandments refer to in the NT, I would suggest The Catholic Encyclopedia article on the commandments, and Adam Clarke's Commentary on the New Testament, in his references to Matthew 5:17-19 in which he begins with the understanding of the law, and Revelation 12:14, where he notes the absence of commandment keeping by the largest churches of the time. --Kevin 00:45, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

text: No wonder. After all, Christianity was originally an offshoot of Judaism. Part of its process of becoming a religion of its own was to move its holy day to Sunday. Likewise Islam chose Friday and the Baha'is chose Thursday. --Jdemarcos 22:05, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

text: What you say is nice for some kind of preaching but irrelevant for an encyclopaedia that should be concerned only about facts and not about subjective interpretation(s) from believers about what their religion says. We are not concerned about whether Sabbatarians follow God's mandate or not, but simply how they differentiate in their behaviour from other Christian groups. --Jdemarcos 22:32, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revelation and the Sabbath 

message: I added the clean-up tag to this article.  I clicked on a wikilink to Sabbatarian, which is redirect here, on the page Colonial colleges.  What is this page?  I cannot tell if it is a disambiguation page or if it needs to be split into two (or more) articles, each discussing a specific subject.  It does not seem to comply with the Wikipedia manual of style.
:I believe the intent of this page is to be a disambiguation page. There is no value to having this page be separate from the Sabbath/Shabbat articles in my opinion as they both contain virtually the same information. I am also not at all pleased with the "Basis for Seventh-Day Sabbatarianism" section which has recently been inserted as I feel it adds no value to a disambiguation page but to obfuscate the meaning of the page -- which is exactly what you ran into and why it is marked for cleanup. As I said before all the argumentation in this page can be found in the Sabbath article. My suggestion is to remove the "Basis for Seventh Day Sabbatarianism" and leave the rest of the article as I believe that the remainder constitutes a valid disambiguation page. What are your thoughts? Vincent Valentine 12:10, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is this page? 

message: Kevin, your latest edits have decimated whatever shreds of neutrality this article had left. The article asserts many statements as facts, cites NO sources, and is generally biased to a Sabbatarian POV. I also see no need to keep this page at all -- it should be a disambiguation page leading to the Sabbath article which covers all this ground anyway.
I will be putting up a neutrality tag soon. Vincent Valentine 12:24, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Your view of neutrality is for all intents and purposes POV, Vincent. If you are a voice for neutrality then you would understand the purpose of the article to present the reasoning behind a particular belief. You have added to the article the alternative view and this was welcomed with some revision, yet your tagging the article is due to POV. What I would suggest is an article referenced in this one, stating the basis of belief for Sunday worship.--Kevin 03:43, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Talk is cheap. You bring no evidence, cite no sources, and falsely accuse me of various atrocities without ever citing anything. Please read the tutorials on how to contribute to Wikipedia, they are quite thorough. Vincent Valentine 04:32, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Regardless of whether Vincent's assertions here are POV or whether your assertions in the article are POV, self-made statements are clearly not allowed. This article neither cites any primary sources nor can it be verified in any manner. Therefore, the only conclusion that could be drawn is that the facts given are assertions made by the author. Please observe WP:NOR & WP:V. JaKaL! 13:59, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Umm...check the article and tell me where you see a citation. Hint: interpreting the Bible in your owns words is not a citation. Also don't remove tags unless you have the approval of the other editors. Vincent Valentine 22:51, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

text: When it digs up that old chestnut about Mithraism?  When, in fact, Roman authorities on at least one occasion conclusively identified people as Christian on no further evidence than that they gathered for worship on Sunday?  I'll be digging up the precise martyrs, but the reference is in Scott Hahn's Swear to God -- if you're interested.  Goldfritha 03:21, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Latest Edits 

message: I think this page has the potential to be more than a disambiguation page, but as such some of the information appearing in the first section needs to be shifted down, a "criticism" section (which I have added) needs to be filled in to alleviate the valid NPOV concerns, and all of it is in painful need of sourcing.  I've started the process, and I notice that this page hasn't received any serious attention in quite a while.  ◄Zahakiel► 20:52, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: On second thought, a reading of the Sabbath article suggests that any new information placed here could probably be better served in a main article from which this is a redirect.  I am removing the proposed "split" tag and replacing it with a suggested "merge" tag. Everything here is, or should be, redundant with the information provided in that article. ◄Zahakiel► 21:03, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree.  Merge.  — Mark (Mkmcconn) ** 21:29, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

text:  Merge to either or both of SabbathSabbath in Christianity and Sabbath (disambiguation)Sabbath. Colin MacLaurin 04:07, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I agree. This page says very little that isn't already said in the Sabbath in Christianity and Shabbat articles. Besides, most of it is unreferenced and (IMO) written in poor encyclopedic style. I've moved the material below, and redirected the article to Sabbath in Christianity. Tonicthebrown 08:29, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Cleanup

message: LDS – The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints (aka – “Mormons”) – The 7th Day is the Sabbath of the LORD – Their Highest Official Sources, aka "Standard Works" and reasoning thereof:
[1]
“God’s Laws Remain Constant
“Although the world has changed, the laws of God remain constant. They have not changed; they will not change. The Ten Commandments are just that—commandments. They are not suggestions. They are every bit as requisite today as they were when God gave them to the children of Israel. If we but listen, we hear the echo of God’s voice, speaking to us here and now. …
“Our code of conduct is definitive; it is not negotiable. It is found not only in the Ten Commandments but also in the Sermon on the Mount, given to us by the Savior when He walked upon the earth. It is found throughout His teachings. It is found in the words of modern revelation.
“Our Father in Heaven is the same yesterday, today, and forever. The prophet Mormon tells us that God is ‘unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity’ [Moroni 8:18]. In this world where nearly everything seems to be changing, His constancy is something on which we can rely, an anchor to which we can hold fast and be safe, lest we be swept away into uncharted waters.”” [Words of the Prophet - President Thomas S. Monson; LDS.org] - http://www.lds.org/new-era/2011/11/general-conference-is-for-you/words-of-the-prophet?lang=eng&query=ten+commandments
[2]
“The Ten Commandments are eternal gospel principles that are necessary for our exaltation. The Lord revealed them to Moses in ancient times (see Exodus 20:1–17), and they are also referenced in whole or in part in other books of scripture (see Matthew 19:18–19; Romans 13:9; Mosiah 12:33–36; 13:13–24; D&C 42:18–29; 59:5–13; 63:61–62). The Ten Commandments are a vital part of the gospel. Obedience to these commandments paves the way for obedience to other gospel principles.” [LDS.org, Ten Commandments] - https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/ten-commandments?lang=eng
[3]
“The Lord personally gave counsel to his children regarding the importance and sacredness of the Sabbath day.
He said, “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
“Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
“But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
“For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.” (Ex. 20:8–11.)
The Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it, and he has asked us to remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. It is a day for spiritual thought and growth; a day to meet with the saints and to partake of the sacrament; a special hallowed day to read the words of God as recorded in his sacred scriptures.
Fathers who disrespect that which God hallowed and fail to keep the Sabbath day holy will generally pass this sin on to their posterity. It is a sin to unhallow that which God hath hallowed. Keeping the Sabbath day holy has a hallowing effect on the soul of man, and love for God and his commandments is increased.” [The Ten Commandments; Elder Bernard P. Brockbank; Assistant to the Council of the Twelve] - http://www.lds.org/ensign/1971/12/the-ten-commandments
[4]
“The Sabbath was a holy day before the giving of the law, even from the earliest times (cf. the account of the creation-- Gen. 2:2-3; the sacredness of the number 7; the narrative of the manna --Ex. 16:23-30; and the narrative of the man gathering sticks--Num. 15:32-36; cf. v. 34); ... for the Sabbath is an eternal principle, and would have existed from the days of Adam, whenever the gospel was on the earth among men.” - http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bd/sabbath?lang=eng&letter=s
[5]
“Elder Bruce R. McConkie (1915–85) of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles stated that Sabbath observance is an eternal principle, and he noted five occurrences in the scriptures when observance of the Sabbath day was required by the Lord:
“From the day of Adam to the Exodus from Egypt, the Sabbath commemorated the fact that Christ rested from his creative labors on the 7th day (Ex. 20:8-11).” - http://www.lds.org/ensign/2000/02/keeping-the-sabbath-day-holy?lang=eng
[6]
“8 Remember the {a} sabbath day, to keep it {b} holy.
9 {a} Six days shalt thou {b} labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy {a} stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in {a} six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord {b} blessed the sabbath day, and {c} hallowed it." [4th Commandment; LDS.org] – http://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/ex/20?lang=eng or http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/ex/20
Ex 20:8 [Notation] - “the {a} sabbath day” - “HEB stopping, cessation, rest (from labor). See Ex. 31:17. TG Sabbath.” Ex. 31:17 given as “17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.”
Ex. 20:9 [Notation] - “{a} Six days” - “Ex. 35:2.” - Ex. 35:2 given as “2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the Lord: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.”
Ex. 20:11 [Notation] - “For in {a} six days” - “Ex. 31:17; Moses 2:31 (24–31).” Ex. 31:17 given as “17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.”; [LDS Book of Mormon] Moses 2:24-31.
Ex. 20:11 [Notation] - “{b} blessed the sabbath day” - “Gen. 2:3 (1–3); Mosiah 13:19; D&C 77:12; Moses 3:3.” Gen. 2:3 (1-3) given as “1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.”; [LDS Book of Mormon] Mosiah 13:19 given as “19 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is; wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.”; [LDS Doctrine & Covenants] D&C 77:12; [LDS Book of Mormon] Moses 3:3 given as “3 And I, God, blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it; because that in it I had rested from all my work which I, God, had created and made.”
Ex. 20:11 [Notation] - “and {c} hallowed it.” - “OR sanctified or consecrated.”
[7]
Joseph Smith said:
“... Q. What are we to understand by the book which John saw, which was {a}sealed on the back with seven seals?
A. We are to understand that it contains the revealed will, {b}mysteries, and the works of God; the hidden things of his economy concerning this {c}earth during the seven thousand years of its continuance, or its temporal existence. ...” [Doctrine and Covenants, 77:6] -
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/77?lang=eng
It is amazing how certain persons at the LDS top attempt to make this statement mean billions of years, when it clearly does not say that at all.
The 7th day is the Sabbath of the LORD in Genesis, for it culminates the previous 6 work days of God. Thus how can persons attempt to replace “1” for “7”, and “7” for “1”, when all the scriptural and official LDS sources speak of the 7th day being presently the sabbath, even from Adam’s day.
[1]
Jarom 1:5 Book Of Mormon: 5 And now, behold, *two hundred years had passed away, and the people of Nephi had waxed strong in the land. They observed to {a}keep the law of Moses and the {b}sabbath day holy unto the Lord. And they {c}profaned not; neither did they {d}blaspheme. And the {e}laws of the land were exceedingly strict. - http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/jarom/1
Notation Pages for Jarom 1:5:
A - 2 Ne. 25: 24. 24 And, notwithstanding we believe in Christ, we {a}keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled.  Mosiah 2: 3. 3 And they also took of the {a}firstlings of their flocks, that they might offer {b}sacrifice and {c}burnt {d}offerings {e}according to the law of Moses; Alma 30: 3. 3 Yea, and the people did observe to keep the commandments of the Lord; and they were strict in observing the {a}ordinances of God, according to the law of Moses; for they were taught to {b}keep the law of Moses until it should be fulfilled.  Alma 34: 14 (13-14) 14 And behold, this is the whole {a}meaning of the {b}law, every whit {c}pointing to that great and last {d}sacrifice; and that great and last {e}sacrifice will be the Son of God, yea, {f}infinite and eternal. - http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/jarom/1/5a
B - Ex. 35: 2. 2 {a}Six days shall {b}work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a {c}sabbath of rest to the Lord: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to {d}death. TG Sabbath.- http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/jarom/1/5b
C - TG Profanity. - http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/jarom/1/5c
D - TG Blasphemy - http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/jarom/1/5d
[2]
E - Alma 1: 1. 1 Now it came to pass that in the first year of the reign of the judges over the people of Nephi, from this time forward, king Mosiah having {a}gone the way of all the earth, having warred a good warfare, walking uprightly before God, leaving none to reign in his stead; nevertheless he had established {b}laws, and they were acknowledged by the people; therefore they were obliged to abide by the {c}laws which he had made. - http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/jarom/1/5e
[3]
Mosiah 13:16-19 Book Of Mormon:  16 Remember the {a}sabbath day, to keep it holy.  17 Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work;  18 But the seventh day, the sabbath of the Lord thy God, thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy man-servant, nor thy maid-servant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; 19 For in {a}six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is; wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. - http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/mosiah/13
Notation Pages for Mosiah 13:16 -
A - Mosiah 18: 23. 23 And he commanded them that they should observe the {a}sabbath day, and keep it holy, and also every day they should give thanks to the Lord their God.  TG Sabbath. - http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/mosiah/13/16a
Notation Pages for Mosiah 13:19 -
A - Gen. 1: 31. 31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very {a}good. And the evening and the morning were the {b}sixth day. Ex. 20: 11. 11 For in {a}six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord {b}blessed the sabbath day, and {c}hallowed it. - http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/mosiah/13/19a
[4]
Mosiah 18:23 Book Of Mormon:  23 And he commanded them that they should observe the {a}sabbath day, and keep it holy, and also every day they should give thanks to the Lord their God.  - http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/mosiah/18
Notation Page For Mosiah 18:23:
A - Ex. 35: 2. 2 {a}Six days shall {b}work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a {c}sabbath of rest to the Lord: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to {d}death. Mosiah 13: 16 (16-19) 16 Remember the {a}sabbath day, to keep it holy. - http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/mosiah/18/23a
[5]
III Nephi 18:14 Book Of Mormon: 14 Therefore blessed are ye if ye shall keep my commandments, which the Father hath commanded me that I should give unto you. - http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/3_ne/18
[6]
The Doctrine And Covenants Of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints; Section 59, #9-12:  9 And that thou mayest more fully keep thyself {a}unspotted from the world, thou shalt go to the house of {b}prayer and offer up thy {c}sacraments upon my {d}holy day; 10 For verily this is a {a}day appointed unto you to rest from your labors, and to pay thy devotions unto the Most High;  11 Nevertheless thy {a}vows shall be offered up in righteousness on all days and at all times; 12 But remember that on this, the {a}Lord’s day, thou shalt offer thine {b}oblations and thy sacraments unto the Most High, {c}confessing thy sins unto thy brethren, and before the Lord. - http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/59
Notation Page for D&C; Section 59, #9, D:
D - Lev. 19: 3. 3 ¶ Ye shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and keep my {a}sabbaths: I am the {b}Lord your God. Lev. 23: 3. 3 Six days shall work be done: but the {a}seventh day is the {b}sabbath of rest, an holy {c}convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the {d}sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings. Alma 1: 26 (26-27) 26 And when the priests left their {a}labor to impart the word of God unto the people, the people also left their labors to hear the word of God. And when the priest had imparted unto them the word of God they all returned again diligently unto their labors; and the priest, not esteeming himself above his hearers, for the preacher was no better than the hearer, neither was the teacher any better than the learner; and thus they were all equal, and they did all labor, every man {b}according to his strength. D&C 68: 29. 29 And the inhabitants of Zion shall also observe the {a}Sabbath day to keep it holy. TG Sabbath. - http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/59/9d 
Notation Page for D&C; Section 59, #10, A:
A - Ex. 35: 2. 2 {a}Six days shall {b}work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a {c}sabbath of rest to the Lord: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to {d}death. Lev. 23: 25. 25 Ye shall do no servile {a}work therein: but ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord. TG Rest. TG Worship. - http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/59/10a
Notation Page for D&C; Section 59, #12, A:
A - Neh. 8: 10. 10 Then he said unto them, Go your way, eat the fat, and drink the sweet, and send {a}portions unto them for whom nothing is prepared: for this {b}day is holy unto our Lord: neither be ye {c}sorry; for the joy of the Lord is your {d}strength. Rev. 1: 10. 10 I was in the Spirit on the {a}Lord’s {b}day, and heard behind me a great {c}voice, as of a trumpet, - http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/59/12a
[7]
The Doctrine And Covenants Of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints; Section 68, #29:  29 And the inhabitants of Zion shall also observe the aSabbath day to keep it holy. - http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/68
Notation Page for D&C; Section 68, #29:
A - Alma 1: 26 (26-27) 26 And when the priests left their {a}labor to impart the word of God unto the people, the people also left their labors to hear the word of God. And when the priest had imparted unto them the word of God they all returned again diligently unto their labors; and the priest, not esteeming himself above his hearers, for the preacher was no better than the hearer, neither was the teacher any better than the learner; and thus they were all equal, and they did all labor, every man {b}according to his strength. D&C 59: 9. 9 And that thou mayest more fully keep thyself {a}unspotted from the world, thou shalt go to the house of {b}prayer and offer up thy {c}sacraments upon my {d}holy day; TG Sabbath. - http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/68/29a
[8]
The Book Of Moses [LDS]; Selections From; June - October 1830; Chapter 3:1-3: 1 Thus the {a}heaven and the earth were finished, and all the {b}host of them.  2 And on the seventh day I, God, ended my work, and all things which I had made; and I {a}rested on the {b}seventh day from all my work, and all things which I had made were finished, and I, God, saw that they were good;  3 And I, God, {a}blessed the seventh day, and {b}sanctified it; because that in it I had rested from all my {c}work which I, God, had created and made. - http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/moses/3
Notation Page for BoM[oses]; Chapter 3:2:
A - Gen. 2: 2 (1-3) 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had {a}made; and he {b}rested on the seventh day from all his {c}work which he had made. Abr. 5: 2 (1-3) 2 And the Gods said among themselves: On the seventh time we will end our work, which we have counseled; and we will {a}rest on the {b}seventh time from all our work which we have counseled. TG Rest. - http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/moses/3/2a
B - TG Sabbath - http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/moses/3/2b
Notation Page for BoM[oses]; Chapter 3:3:
A - Ex. 20: 11. 11 For in {a}six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord {b}blessed the sabbath day, and {c}hallowed it. Mosiah 13: 19. 19 For in {a}six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is; wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. D&C 77: 12. 12 Q. What are we to understand by the sounding of the {a}trumpets, mentioned in the 8th chapter of Revelation?  A. We are to understand that as God {b}made the world in six days, and on the seventh day he finished his work, and {c}sanctified it, and also formed man out of the {d}dust of the earth, even so, in the beginning of the seventh thousand years will the Lord God {e}sanctify the earth, and complete the salvation of man, and {f}judge all things, and shall {g}redeem all things, except that which he hath not put into his power, when he shall have sealed all things, unto the end of all things; and the sounding of the trumpets of the seven angels are the preparing and finishing of his work, in the beginning of the seventh thousand years—the {h}preparing of the way before the time of his coming. - http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/moses/3/3a
B - Abr. 5: 3 (1-3) 3 And the Gods concluded upon the seventh time, because that on the seventh time they would {a}rest from all their {b}works which they (the Gods) counseled among themselves to form; and {c}sanctified it. And thus were their decisions at the time that they counseled among themselves to form the heavens and the earth. - http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/moses/3/3b
C - Ex. 31: 15 (14-15) 15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of {a}rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any {b}work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Mosiah 13: 18 (16-19) 18 But the seventh day, the sabbath of the Lord thy God, thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy man-servant, nor thy maid-servant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; - http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/moses/3/3c
[9]
The Book Of Abraham; Translated From The Papyrus, By Joseph Smith, Chapter 5:1-3:  1 And thus we will finish the heavens and the earth, and all the {a}hosts of them.  2 And the Gods said among themselves: On the seventh time we will end our work, which we have counseled; and we will {a}rest on the {b}seventh time from all our work which we have counseled.  3 And the Gods concluded upon the seventh time, because that on the seventh time they would {a}rest from all their {b}works which they (the Gods) counseled among themselves to form; and {c}sanctified it. And thus were their decisions at the time that they counseled among themselves to form the heavens and the earth. - http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/abr/5
Notation Page for BoA; Chapter 5:2:
A - TG Rest. - http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/abr/5/2a
B - TG Sabbath - http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/abr/5/2b
Notation Page for BoA; Chapter 5:3:
A - Ex. 20: 8 (8-11) 8 Remember the {a}sabbath day, to keep it {b}holy. - http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/abr/5/3a
B - Ex. 31: 15 (15-16) 15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of {a}rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any {b}work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Mosiah 13: 18 (16-19) 18 But the seventh day, the sabbath of the Lord thy God, thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy man-servant, nor thy maid-servant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; - http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/abr/5/3b
C - Mosiah 13: 19 (16-19) 19 For in {a}six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is; wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. D&C 77: 12. 12 Q. What are we to understand by the sounding of the {a}trumpets, mentioned in the 8th chapter of Revelation?  A. We are to understand that as God {b}made the world in six days, and on the seventh day he finished his work, and {c}sanctified it, and also formed man out of the {d}dust of the earth, even so, in the beginning of the seventh thousand years will the Lord God {e}sanctify the earth, and complete the salvation of man, and {f}judge all things, and shall {g}redeem all things, except that which he hath not put into his power, when he shall have sealed all things, unto the end of all things; and the sounding of the trumpets of the seven angels are the preparing and finishing of his work, in the beginning of the seventh thousand years—the {h}preparing of the way before the time of his coming. - http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/abr/5/3c
They said all of that, and in a single sentence, say:
"B. The Sabbath day was changed in the meridian dispensation.
“The Church accepts Sunday as the Christian Sabbath and proclaims the sanctity of the day. We admit without argument that under the Mosaic law the seventh day of the week, Saturday, was designated and observed as the holy day, and that the change from Saturday to Sunday was a feature of the apostolic administration following the personal ministry of Jesus Christ. Greater than the question of this day or that in the week is the actuality of the weekly Sabbath, to be observed as a day of special and particular devotion to the service of the Lord.” [James E. Talmage, The Articles of Faith, 449] - http://www.lds.org/manual/doctrines-of-the-gospel-student-manual/chapter-27-the-law-of-the-sabbath?lang=kor&clang=eng
The seventh day, the sabbath of the LORD has “not changed”, and is “a sin to unhallow”, is suddenly “changed” (Daniel 7:25; Proverbs 24:21 KJB)?
The argumentation of an 'apostolic' change after Jesus’ resurrection & ascension, is a Roman Catholic, or fallen church, ideology or doctrine.
“... the first day of the week, Sunday ...” - https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/sabbath-day?lang=eng
“The Savior was ... resurrected. The New Testament contains several accounts testifying that He rose from the tomb (see Matthew 28:1-8; Mark 16:1-14; Luke 24:1-48; John 20:1-29; 1 Corinthians 15:1-8; 2 Peter 1:16-17).” - http://www.lds.org/topics/resurrection?lang=eng
Therefore, the LDS.org clearly demonstrates which day is “the seventh day” [aka commonly, not technically, “Saturday"] and which day is the “first [day] of the week” [aka commonly, not technically, “Sunday”], and the two shall ever be separate, for the 7th Day is Holy, and the first is not.
[QUESTION]  Why do all of the LDS scriptures say the 7th day is the sabbath, and yet the LDS keep the first day of the week as the sabbath? 
For instance see, Book of Mormon - Jarom 1:5; Mosiah 13:16-19, 18:23; III Nephi 18:14 & notations.
For instance see Doctrine and Covenants - sec 59, #9-12; sec 68, #29 & notations.
For instance Book of Moses, Chap. 3:1-3, & notations.
For instance Book of Abraham, Chap. 5:1-3 & notations.
For instance Elder Bruce McConkie of Quorum of 12, ensign 2000.
For instance Elder Bernard P. Brockbank as Assistant to Council of 12, ensign 1971.
For instance President Thomas S Monson, 2011, GC
For instance Joseph Smith (Prophet LDS) connected the 7 days of Genesis, with the 7000 years of the earth, in the 6,000 and 1,000 final.  
Is there any official documentation in the “standard works” that explains this inconsistent behaviour, or discrepancy, without utilizing Roman Catholic (‘pope’ Sylvester), or fallen church, ideology or principals? If so, where is it?
Finally, read 1 Nephi 13:4-6,20-42 (vs. 26, great church above all other “churches”, abominable church, church of the devil, "Babylon" in Rome, which made “war” with the “saints” (churches))  Anti Christ - Vicarius Christi.  This chapter is important, because it is where LDS get their justification for their Book of Mormon, and other materials.  It is the reason for their existence.
Vs. 4 “b great church” – cites 1 Nephi 13:26,34, and 1 Nephi 14:3,9-17, speaking of the (1 Nephi 13:26) “that great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches, for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away”, and (1 Nephi 13:34) “after the Gentiles do stumble exceedingly, because of the most plain and precious parts of the gospel of the Lamb which have been kept back by that abominable church, which is the mother of harlots”, and (1 Nephi 14:3) “that great and abominable church, which was founded by the devil and his children”, and (1 Nephi 14:9) “behold that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abominations, whose founder is the devil”, and (1 Nephi 14:10) “that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth”, and (1 Nephi 14:11) “the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over all the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people”, and (1 Nephi 14:12) “abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters … the wickedness of the great whore”, and (1 Nephi 14:13) “the great mother of abominations”, and (1 Nephi 14:15) “that great and abominable church”, and (1 Nephi 14:16) “the mother of abominations … the mother of harlots”, and (1 Nephi 14:17) “the mother of harlots, which is the great and abominable church of all the earth, whose founder is the devil”
Vs. 5 “Behold the formation of a achurch which is most abominable above all other churches, which bslayeth the saints of God,” - cites 2 Nephi 10:16; Revelation 17:3-6, 18:24; 1 Nephi 14:13. “a church” links to (2 Nephi 10:16) “they are they who are the whore of all the earth”, and “b slayeth” links to (Revelation 17:3-6, 18:24; 1 Nephi 14:13).
Vs. 6 “And it came to pass that I beheld this agreat and babominable church; and I saw the cdevil that he was the founder of it.”, and cites (D&C 88:94; TG Devil, Church of.; 1 Nephi 22:22-23. TG Devil.) “a great” cites (Doctrine and Covenants 88:94) “That great church, the mother of abominations, that made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, that persecuteth the saints of God, that shed their blood—she who sitteth upon many waters, and upon the islands of the sea—behold, she is the tares of the earth;” “b abominable church” cites TG Devil - https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/tg/devil-church-of?lang=eng, which in part says, “… great whore that sitteth upon many waters, Rev. 17:1. with violence shall … Babylon be thrown down, Rev. 18:21. great and abominable church, 1 Ne. 13:6. parts of the gospel … kept back by that abominable church, 1 Ne. 13:32. abominable church … whose founder is the devil, 1 Ne. 14:9. … abominable church, … whore of all the earth, 1 Ne. 22:13 (2 Ne. 28:18). do not unite themselves to that great and abominable church, 2 Ne. 6:12. whore of all the earth, 2 Ne. 10:16. … abominable church … shall be cast down, D&C 29:21. great church, the mother of abominations, D&C 88:94.”
Vs. 7, “clothing; and I saw many harlots.”
Vs. 8, “and the harlots, are the adesires of this great and abominable church.”
Vss. 26-29, “26 And after they go forth by the ahand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews bunto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that cgreat and abominable dchurch, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have etaken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are fplain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away.
27 And all this have they done that they might pervert the right ways of the Lord, that they might blind the eyes and harden the hearts of the children of men.
28 Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and aprecious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God.
29 And after these plain and precious things were ataken away it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles; and after it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles, yea, even across the many waters which thou hast seen with the Gentiles which have gone forth out of captivity, thou seest—because of the many plain and precious things which have been taken out of the book, which were plain unto the understanding of the children of men, according to the plainness which is in the Lamb of God—because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel of the Lamb, an exceedingly great many do stumble, yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them.”
Vs. 26, “abominable d church” cites - TG Apostasy of the Early Christian Church. - https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/tg/apostasy-of-the-early-christian-church?lang=eng, and citing Revelation 18:21, “Babylon” cites Babylon – “church that is at Babylon, elected, 1 Pet. 5:13.” - Babylon https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/tg/babylon?lang=eng, following this, we come to Peter, Epistles of, which says, “The first epistle was written from “Babylon” (probably Rome)” - https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/tg/peter?lang=eng
Thus, the “church at Babylon”, according to the official LDS sources, is the “church at (Rome)”, which would then be the “abominable church”, and “mother” of “harlots”, which altered the Bible, Gospel and even the laws and covenants of God.  It would be the AntiChrist, the AntiChristos, the Vicarivs Christi.
Joseph Smith is basically saying that because of the “abominable church”, which is “above all other churches”, being their “mother” and “whore” of the many “harlots” had altered the “book” (Bible, the OT and NT), in its texts and meanings, both adding and subtracting from it, have caused the “Gentiles” of the world to stumble in obedience to God, and thus all churches, and especially the church of the “devil”, that “abominable church”, were corrupt, and needed a prophet (Joseph Smith) to start again (hence receiving plates, etc).  However, Joseph Smith, while saying that the 7th day is the Sabbath of the LORD God as scripture (Bible, OT & NT) teaches, yet practiced the sabbath as the first day of the week, after the “abominable church”, and her change of laws.  It is a hypocritical theology in practice.  The LDS church, from President on down, have no answer for this great CONTRADICTION.  Their official religious sources, especially the “standard works” (BoM, D&C, PoGP, etc) all teach the 7th day is the sabbath of the LORD, including many of their own Presidents, Elders.  They now try to utilize Roman Catholic (“abominable church) arguments, for a “change” in the “meridian dispensation” (after Revelation was written), and yet will still try to justify their contradictory practice by citing Acts 20:7 (see Links previously given in this lesson), Romans 14, etc, even though, their own Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Book of Abraham, etc all say the opposite, in that the Apostles kept the commandments of God (Exodus 20:1-17), including the 7th day, the sabbath of the LORD, not upon the 1st day of the week. They are stuck using Papal reasoning, papal practice, even though Joseph Smith said that that church and all churches were in theological and practical error.  The one thing that united all those “harlots” was the transgression of the 4th Commandment, Exodus 20:8-11, ignoring the 7th day the sabbath of the LORD thy God, and instead substituting (thus subtracting and adding to) the first day of the week in it’s place.
‘Pope’ Sylvester I - https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14370a.htm
[Latin] “... Similiter et feriae a fando dicuntur, ob quam causam Silvester papa primus apud Romanos constituit ut dierum nomina quae antea secundum nomina deorum suorum vocabant, id est, Solis, Lunae, Martis, Mercurii, Veneris, Saturni, feria deinceps vocarent, id est, prima feria, secunda feria, tertia feria, quarta feria, quinta feria, sexta feria, quia in principio Genesis scriptum est quod Deus per singulos dies dixerit : prima, Fiat Lux; secunda, Fiat firmamentum; tertia, Producat terra herbam virentem, similiter, etc.  Sabbatum autem antiquo legis vocabulo vocare praecepit, et primam feriam diem Dominicam, eo quod Dominus in illa resurrexit.  Statuit autem idem papa ut otium sabbati magis in diem Dominicam transferretur, ut ea die a terrenis operibus ad laudandum Deum vacaremus, justa illud quod scriptum est : Vacate et videte, quoniam ego sum Deus (Psal. XLV). ...” - Beati Rabani Mauri, Fuldensis Abbatis et Moguntini Archiepiscopi, de Clericorum Institutione, ad Heistulphum Archiepiscopum; Libri Tres. (Anno 819.)  Ad Fratres Fuldenses Epigramma Ejusdem; Liber Secundus, Caput XLVI. Column 361 (Left; PDF page 35) - http://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu/02m/0788-0856,_Rabanus_Maurus,_De_Clericorum_Institutione_Ad_Heistulphum_Archiepiscopum_Libri_Tres,_MLT.pdf
[Translated English] “... Pope Sylvester, first among the Romans, ordered that the names of the days [of the week], which they previously called after the name of their gods, that is, [the day] of the Sun, [the day] of the Moon, [the day] of Mars, [the day] of Mercury, [the day] of Jupiter, [the day] of Venus, [the day] of Saturn, they should call feriae thereafter, that is the first feria, the second feria, the third feria, the fourth feria, the fifth feria, the sixth feria, because that in the beginning of Genesis it is written that God said concerning each day: on the first, "Let there be light:; on the second, "Let there be a firmament"; on the third, "Let the earth bring forth verdure"; etc. But he [‘Pope’ Sylvester I] ordered [them] to call the Sabbath by the ancient term of the law, [to call] the first feria the "Lord's day," because on it the Lord rose [from the dead], Moreover, the same pope decreed that the rest of the Sabbath should be transferred rather to the [counterfeit] Lord's day [Sunday; the real “Lord’s day” (Revelation 1:10) is the 7th day the Sabbath of the LORD], in order that on that day we should rest from worldly works for the praise of God.7 ...” - http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/sylvester-I.htm
Roman Catholicism says:
“...But the [Roman Catholic] Church of God has in her wisdom ordained that the celebration of the Sabbath should be transferred to “the [counterfeit] Lord's day [ie, they mean first day of the week, even though the real Lord’s day, Rev. 1:109; Isa. 58:13; Exo. 20:11 is the 7th day the sabbath of the LORD]:” …” [The Catechism of the Council of Trent; On The Third Commandment; pg 267] - http://www.archive.org/stream/thecatechismofth00donouoft#page/n271/mode/2up/search/sabbath
“… the Sabbath … this commandment, … is not fixed and unalterable, but is susceptible of change … ” [The Catechism of the Council of Trent published by command of Pope Pius The Fifth, translated into English by the Rev. J. Donovon, Professor, &c Royal College, Maynooth; Baltimore: Published by Lucas Brothers. No. 170 Market Street; Printed By James Young, Baltimore; On The Third Commandment; pg 264] - http://www.archive.org/stream/thecatechismofth00donouoft#page/n269/mode/2up/search/sabbath
Yet, the great Reformer Philip Melanchthon said:
Philip Melanchthon ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Melanchthon ) on Daniel 7:25 -
[Old English] “... But what meaneth the aungell to saye: He shall s•arle or destroye ye hyghe sayn∣tis? verely els but that with his false doctryne capciouse othes articles / & in∣terrogacions he shall fraudelently de∣ceyue and trappe the simple innocents and shed their blode tyrannously. Also he shall arrogantly take vpon him & thin∣ke to change the state of tymes and la∣wes. He weneth to change ye tyme which with swerde and fyer thinketh to shorten the lyfe of man and to preuent and disa∣point gods infallible eternall and immu∣table prouidēce wherby he hath prefiyed euery manis tyme & houre of deth which as noman can differre or prolong it / so cā∣ne noman shorten nor preuent it / except men will make God an ignorant persone and so consequently no god at all. He chā∣geth the tymes and lawes that any of the [page 118-119] sixe worke dayes commanded of god will make them vnholy and idle dayes when he lyste / or of their owne holy dayes abo∣lisshed / make* worke dayes agen / & when they changed ye Saterday into Sondaye / of eting dayes fasting dayes / of mery and glad dayes to marye in / they can make so∣rowfull dayes forbiddinge maryages. They haue changed gods lawes and tur∣ned them into their owne tradiciōs to be kept aboue Gods preceptis. And as for their owne lawes they will change & bre∣ke them when they lyste. And this powr shal anticrist haue whether it be for long or shorte tyme. For so miche sowneth the Hebrew phrase / which is for a tyme / a lyt∣le whyle / & half a tyme / signifyinge that Anticryst shall make lawes to stande as long and as shorte tyme as he listeth and the tymes will he order / sett and change at his owne plesur. But is it not onely ye office of god to chang tymes and lawes? Here is therfore the prophecye fulfylled of him. Euen to exalt himselfe aboue all thing that god is called. This text. But the hyghe saynts he shall tangle trappe & destroye and arrogantly thinke to chan∣ge the tymes and lawes &c. is of diuerse lerned men diuersely translated. ...” - (The Exposicion of Daniel the Prophete Gathered oute of Philip Melanchton, Johan Ecolampadius, Chonrade Pellicane [and] out of Johan Draconite (1545); page 118-119) - https://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/eebo/A04696.0001.001/1:11?rgn=div1;view=fulltext
https://archive.org/details/TheExposicionOfDanielThePropheteGatheredOuteOfPhilipMelanchtonJohan/page/n118/mode/1up
https://archive.org/details/TheExposicionOfDanielThePropheteGatheredOuteOfPhilipMelanchtonJohan/page/n119/mode/1up
[Modern English] “… But what does the angel (Gabriel) mean to say:  He shall wear out (persecute) or destroy the high (heavenly) saints (holy persons) (Daniel 7:25)?  Verily (truly) (what) else (is it) but that with his false doctrine and capricious (unaccountable changes of) other articles (of faith & practice) & (with) interrogations (subtle questionings) he shall fraudulently deceive and trap the simple innocents and shed their blood, tyrannously.  Also he shall arrogantly take upon him(self) and think to change the state of times and laws.  He thinks to change the time, which with (the) fire and sword (of persecution), thinks to shorten the life of man(kind) and to prevent and disappoint God’s infallible, eternal and immutable providence whereby he (God) has prefixed every man’s time and hour of death which no man (anyone of mankind) can defer (delay) or prolong (extend) it, so can no man (anyone of mankind) shorten, nor prevent it, except men (anyone of mankind) will make God an ignorant person and so consequently no ‘God’ at all.  He changes the times and laws that any of the [page 118-119] six work days commanded of God will make them unholy and idle days when he wills (desires by reason, “thinks”), or of their own ‘holy days’ (liturgical festal calendar days, like ‘lent’, &c) abolished, make work days again, and when they changed the Saturday (the 7th Day of the week in common, not technicality, as the days of God, are sunset to sunset (“even unto even”), not midnight to midnight (Roman times)) into Sunday (the 1st day of the week in common, not technicality), of eating (feasting) days (and) fasting days, of merry (celebratory) and glad days to marry in, they can make sorrowful days (even) forbidding marriages (1 Timothy 4:3).  They have changed God’s laws and turned them into their own traditions to be kept above God’s precepts.  And as for their own laws, they will change and break them when they will (desire by reason, “thinks”).  And this power (authority) shall Anti-Christ (Latin: Vicarius Christi; koine Greek: Anti Christos) have, whether it be for (a) long or (a) short time. For so much shows (reveals) the Hebrew phrase, which is for a time, a little while (times), and a half a time, signifying that Anti-Christ shall make laws to stand as long and as short (of) time as he wills (desires by reason, “thinks”), and the times will he order, set and change at his own pleasure. But is it not only the office (position and prerogative) of God to change times and laws (Daniel 2:21; Acts 17:26)?  Here is therefore the prophecy fulfilled of him (Anti-Christ).  Even to exalt himself above everything that God is called (Daniel 11:36; 2 Thessalonians 2:4).  This text, But the high (heavenly) saints (holy persons) he (Anti-Christ) shall tangle (ensnare), trap and destroy, and arrogantly think to change the times and laws, etc.; is of diverse (differing) men diversely (differently) translated. …”
William Ambrose Spicer (SDA, 1918), Our day in the light of prophecy and providence, page 154 - https://archive.org/details/ourdayinlightofp00spic/page/154/mode/1up
Stephen Bohr (SDA), Studies On Daniel (PDF), page 175 - http://secretsunsealed.org/content/PDF_downloads/All of Pastor Bohr's Study Notes/BDAN.pdf
Roy Allen Anderson (SDA), Unveiling Daniel And Revelation, page 95 - https://books.google.as/books?id=ABuq_yAvNhkC&dq=Roy+Allen+Anderson+Phillip+Melanchthon&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=Roy+Allen+Anderson+Phillip+Melanchthon
H.F. Thomas, Chancellor Of Cardinal Gibbons:
"Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change [solemnity of the 7th day Sabbath to Sunday the first day of the week] was her act ... And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical authority in religious things."
The Faith of Millions, By the Reverend John A. O'Brien, Ph.D, copyright 1938, Published by Our Sunday Visitor, Huntington, Indian, Pages 397-398,401,403
"The attendance at [Sunday] Mass is the mark of a practical Catholic. ... the worship of God and demands the attendance at Sunday Mass every Catholic worthy of the name."
Dictionary of the Liturgy, Rev. Jovian P. Lang, OFM., Catholic Book Publishing Co., 1989
"Distinctive of the Roman Catholic Church, Sunday Mass observance became a mark of a practicing Catholic."
Greek Orthodox:
"... Sunday as a Mark of Christian Unity ...
... In order to fully appreciate Sunday as a mark of Christian unity we must expand our definition of unity." [by Rev. Dr. Demetrios E. Tonias – Dean, Annunciation Greek Orthodox Cathedral of New England] - http://www.ldausa.org/lda/sunday-as-a-mark-of-christian-unity/
65.167.226.11 (talk) 05:29, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  LDS (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) (aka "Mormonism") and the 7th day, or the Lord's day, the sabbath day in "the Standard Works" (LDS) 

message: Hi, folks. Someone created this new article about the Saturday/Sunday switch in Christianity, which seems to be mostly original research and may overlap with the Saturday vs. Sunday section here. I don't know enough about the subject to know whether to suggest a merge or whatnot, so I thought I'd bring it to your attention. Feeeshboy 06:18, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: After no attempts were made to save the content, the PROD warning expired. So, nevermind... Feeeshboy 00:24, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Change From Saturday to Sunday as a Holy Day]] 

message: Since Wikipedia is not a dictionary, I propose Sabbath (the english version of the word) incorporate the other variations of the word, since they all share the same etymology, and it would also help to avoid edit disputes and duplication of effort. Comments anyone? --Rebroad 11:07, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: For the same reasons, I think Passover in the Christian tradition, such as the NT view of Passover, ought to be mentioned in the Passover article. 2 billion Christians in the world constitute a significant POV. Passover is the commonly used English word, so should serve all definitions. A fork to "Pesach" or similar title about contemporary Jewish observance with a summary left behind could be justified. Colin MacLaurin 17:45, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed merge / Wikipedia is not a dictionary 

message: The overwhelming consensus here is that there should be no attempt to merge the articles on Christian sabbath and Jewish sabbath, which in reality are two separate topics. However, Rebroad and Colin MacLaurin have legitimately pointed out that the etymology of Sabbath and Shabbat are the same. Therefore, there is genuine potential for confusion. To deal with these concerns, I have renamed the "Sabbath" article to Sabbath in Christianity, and replaced "Sabbath" with a disambiguation page. This parallels what has been done with Faith in Christianity, Hell in Christianity and other similar issues. In addition, it removes the implication that Christianity has a greater claim than Judaism on the word "Sabbath"—this was a problem with the previous state of affairs. I hope that satisfies everyone. Tonicthebrown 08:56, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Resolution

message: I can think of many different possible beliefs about "Sabbath": Friday sunset to Saturday sunset; midnight to midnight Saturday; Sunday (is there variation in the time periods?); any day or 24-hour period as a Sabbath; no Sabbath necessary but spiritualised. There is a big difference even among Sunday/Lord's Day POVs - Sabbatarian-Sunday observers; and those who worship on Sunday but do not observe it as a day of rest. Also different beliefs about Sabbath in context of Lord's Day interpretations - Sabbath is Saturday and should be observed; Sunday and should be observed; or Saturday but obselete and Sunday should be observed as the Lord's Day; Saturday but both days should be observed; Saturday but spiritualised and no longer needed; Saturday but any 24-period OK (perhaps). Presumably some are more significants POVs than others, and others may be primarily historical with little or no representation today. I look forward to this information, together with answers, being integrated into the article eventually. Colin MacLaurin 17:58, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Sabbath" POVs 

message: Hello.  I would really like to talk to someone about how to post to this site without getting my postings immediately deleted.  I added a large amount of content to this topic and within minutes, it had been deleted, cited for reason of Original Research.  My subject matter was not original research, and was well cited, and the person who deleted the information did not even have time to read everything I input before he deleted.  I went back in and added back in one paragraph, again citing my sources, and I added a link to the external links.  Again, within a couple of hours, someone else deleted my information, and also my link.  This time I received a message saying that I was spamming.  The link in question is http://www.sabbathtruth.com.  It is a webpage full of the history of the Sabbath.  It is not spam and has plenty of wonderful information concerning the topic of the page.  My paragraph that was deleted stated "The Church, on the other hand, after changing the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath, or seventh day of the week, to the first, made the Third Commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord's Day." The Catholic Encyclopedia.  I have written and asked what exactly I need to do to get this information posted, but have received no response so far.  I certainly want to stay within the Wikipedia guidelines for posting, but I cannot see what I have done wrong.  Any help or suggestions in this matter will be greatly appreciated. 
Kimberlie Currier, Ph.D.
=== Other removals ===
Was it really correct to revert these edits? At least some of the content seemed good to me, although I don't know much about the Seventh Day Baptists. Colin MacLaurin 05:25, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unfair Removal 

message: Was it really correct to revert these edits? At least some of the content seemed good to me, although I don't know much about the Seventh Day Baptists. Colin MacLaurin 05:25, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other removals 

message: This article appears to be a favorite of anonymous editors and vandals.  Over time, it has acquired a distinctly polemical character in favor of seventh-day observance, so that readability and credibility have suffered.  — Mark (Mkmcconn) ** 20:02, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. Desmond Ford's book could also be used as a good source for the Saturday POV. I have access to Carson's book, and will make use of it to update the article in about a month's time (when exams are over!) Tonicthebrown 06:54, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Great. I would also be interested to know the POV of each individual author in Carson's book, and think this would be relevant to the article (if very brief). Colin MacLaurin 17:37, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV 

message: # When catholic sources are cited for polemical purposes by a seventh-day apologist, the source (and thus, its polemical purpose) should be clarified.  This mis-identification of sources is the principal weakness of the article.  For example, instead of claiming "catholic sources freely admit that they are cavalier regarding scripture's authority (references) ", the article should state, "seventh-day apologists cite catholic sources with the intention of showing them to be cavalier regarding scripture's authority (references)".  — Mark (Mkmcconn) ** 18:49, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ToDo 

message: There are currently primary sources from the early centuries since Christ quoted in the article, but without any citations of modern scholars to give interpretation of the sources. The policy Wikipedia:No original research states that a good article can use a mix of primary and secondary sources, but that "most articles should rely predominantly on secondary sources..." –Colin MacLaurin 03:40, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Primary sources 

message: This article is very lacking in good sources, as hinted above by another editor. Let's discuss which sources are the best ones to use. For the Saturday Sabbath POV, I understand that Seventh-day Adventist Samuele Bacchiocchi is the leading scholar and hence best reference to use. Comments please. For the non-Saturday-Sabbath POV, the best reference I know of is Don Carson, ed. From Sabbath to Lord's Day. Apparently this book is not unanimous in its POV, with some contributors believing that the day does not matter, and others that observance has been transferred from Saturday to Sunday. Your comments on sources please! Colin MacLaurin 06:44, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. Desmond Ford's book could also be used as a good source for the Saturday POV. I have access to Carson's book, and will make use of it to update the article in about a month's time (when exams are over!) Tonicthebrown 06:54, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Great. I would also be interested to know the POV of each individual author in Carson's book, and think this would be relevant to the article (if very brief). Colin MacLaurin 17:37, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources 

message: How about moving all biblical references to Sabbath to an article on Wikiquote like wikiquote:The Bible on the Sabbath? This would remove the need for "Biblical references to the Sabbath Day", as the major texts in the debate would be discussed in this article, and a link to a Wikiquote article for a complete list. Colin MacLaurin 16:23, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Biblical references in Wikiquote article? 

message: I just discovered this treatment, & I think it is not accurate. The Ethiopian Church is not part of this Sabbatarian movement -- which grew out of Protestantism -- but is one of the Oriental Orthodox churches, in communion with the Copts, Armenian, Syrian and Indian churches. That the Ethiopian Church observes two Sabbaths -- Saturday in honor of the Old Testament, & Sunday in honor of the New -- dates back to the 14th century when the monk & religious leader Ewostatewos first advocated this practice, & is a secondary development. I feel is only proper that this unique practice merits a separate section for the Ethiopians. -- llywrch 22:32, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, but IIRC, the view predates Ewostatewos, and he was calling for a return to the Saturday Sabbath (perhaps as well as the Sunday one, in order to honor both Testaments? This is the view taken after the council of Debre Mitmaq). He may have been referring to the OT rather than the Zagwe dynasty, though. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 22:41, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The [[Ethiopian Orthodox Church]] as a "Sabbatarian" sect? 

message: Regarding User:Ipernar's large changes, please discuss on the talk page before making such, particularly as this topic has been moderately controversial. The two new articles Christian Sabbatarianism and Opposition to Christian Sabbatarianism are a clear POV-fork, in direct contrast with the required neutral point of view. Related changes have also been made on other articles. I do think that a legitimate content fork could be made at some stage - maybe a History of the Sabbath in Christianity, which would include Sabbatarian groups (in place of the new Christian Sabbatarianism). After all the current page is long and has lots of information, and still needs more work. For now, I believe the changes should be reverted. Colin MacLaurin 16:02, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Definitely agreed. The massive changes and 2 new articles reflect a POV. I'm going to revert. Tonicthebrown 07:21, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

text: I agree that the article is large. I also think it is unfinished, and I agree that a legitimate content fork could be warranted in the future. I created the article Sabbath in Seventh-day Adventism. It is not a polemic for the Adventist point of view, it is largely a summary of the history of the Sabbath within that church, and I have described many detractors of the teaching, particularly as it relates to the church, e.g. from former Adventists. However your articles cover subjects from particular points of view only - see the fundamental policy Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. On another positive note, thank-you for discussing this on the talk page. It's a good sign. Colin MacLaurin 13:21, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Major changes 

message: I propose a new :Category:Sabbath. It would be a child category of the categories this article is currently listed in. :Category:Shabbat would be one subcategory. There are lots of articles floating around relating to the Christian Sabbath, so this would collect them, into :Category:Sabbath in Christianity I guess. Colin MacLaurin 13:41, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Category 

message: I find the edits made by 98.197.18.75 to be less than helpful to the article.  To call it the "Biblical" Sabbath as opposed to the "Jewish" Sabbath actually makes the article less clear, since most Christians would read that as Sunday.  The other edits I would almost call vandalism, but it isn't quite.  However, I seem to be unable to revert them.  Would an admin roll it back?
Also, I would like to debate one edit made by Timotheus7--I don't have anything personal, I'm just curious for the rationale behind deleting "for the sake of the Jews", something that I'm pretty sure has been proven from Biblical text.  His other edit was a good catch, so please don't take this the wrong way and satisfy my curiosity.  (NorthernFalcon (talk) 22:08, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reverting 

message: I've gone ahead and archived the talk page which was largely outdated discussion and overly bloated as is. Vincent Valentine 04:27, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Talk:Sabbatarianism, which was not merged to this talk when its article was merged here, has now been moved to Archive 2. Its timeframe interleaves with Archive 1 and with the present page. JJB 07:41, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archived old talk page 

message: Category: Christian Sunday observance, sub catagorie: New Testament background.
It is suggested here that eight days after a Sunday is a Sunday. I am going to remove this, unless someone points out what I am missing.
Eight days later, I am finally making this change, as there have been no comments. Note for someone interested, or the original author: the text used to read that Jesus appeared on "first day" i.e. a Sunday, then eight days later, which is another Sunday. As a metaphor this is interesting, so there could be some justification here... But literally this would be the second day of the week.
: I don't understand what makes Sunday the "second day of the week", in your argument above. — Mark (Mkmcconn) ** 21:49, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mistake in Text 

message: :Merged from "Talk:Sabbath in Christianity/Comments":
Why do you consistantly say that it is a Jewish day?
wasn't it established at creation well before any Jews, Hebrews or any other such nations of people?
I am a reletivly new christian & am baffled buy peoples interpritations.
Richard — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.233.54.202 (talk • contribs) 20:51, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Why

message: Some of the Hebrew names used in this article, have no source in the Hebrew Bible, however, come from the Rabbis. Why are they even in this article? ems 17:27, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Adding factual templated, or anything else that might be more fitting. ems 17:34, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

text: You should only tag the section you have an issue with, not the whole article. Or, hey, fix it yourself. Don't just haphazardly toss tags around. Most of the article is well-sourced and it's very annoying to have someone barge in and toss factual accuracy tags around. I agree the Hebrew part is probably bunk, that was added by a fringe sect member who claimed to be an authority -- I don't know any Hebrew so I took his word for it. Take it out if you have evidence that it's no good. Vincent Valentine 20:18, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You see, I added it to the section that had the error, the intro. ems 13:39, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Um, no? You used the "whole article" tag and put it at the very top of the article, flagging the entire article as needing factual reinforcement. You can use the section tag on sections you find to be factually lacking, but I'm curious -- what specifically are you referring to? The "Simchat Torah" simply is referring to the Eight Day of the Feast. The sentence after that "the Hebrew word refers to.." is talking about what the word "Shabbat" means. I don't see any problems here except maybe you think the "Simchat Torah" is what is being defined as "day of rest" which I agree is wrong. If you want to clarify that part go ahead. Vincent Valentine 13:56, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Simchat Torah means 'rejoucing of the Torah'. It isn't even the Eighth day of the featival, its the last day, which in Israel is the Seventh day. ems 14:40, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jewish naming of festivals 

message: You got some weird translation of Simchat Torah. its defently not the Hebrew the whole world accepts as Hebrew. ems 17:32, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Adding factual templated, or anything else that might be more fitting. ems 17:34, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

text: You should only tag the section you have an issue with, not the whole article. Or, hey, fix it yourself. Don't just haphazardly toss tags around. Most of the article is well-sourced and it's very annoying to have someone barge in and toss factual accuracy tags around. I agree the Hebrew part is probably bunk, that was added by a fringe sect member who claimed to be an authority -- I don't know any Hebrew so I took his word for it. Take it out if you have evidence that it's no good. Vincent Valentine 20:18, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You see, I added it to the section that had the error, the intro. ems 13:39, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Um, no? You used the "whole article" tag and put it at the very top of the article, flagging the entire article as needing factual reinforcement. You can use the section tag on sections you find to be factually lacking, but I'm curious -- what specifically are you referring to? The "Simchat Torah" simply is referring to the Eight Day of the Feast. The sentence after that "the Hebrew word refers to.." is talking about what the word "Shabbat" means. I don't see any problems here except maybe you think the "Simchat Torah" is what is being defined as "day of rest" which I agree is wrong. If you want to clarify that part go ahead. Vincent Valentine 13:56, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Simchat Torah means 'rejoucing of the Torah'. It isn't even the Eighth day of the featival, its the last day, which in Israel is the Seventh day. ems 14:40, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Wow, what Hebrew do you speak

message: The list of Saturday keeping groups here seems to be more expansive than the one at Seventh day Christian groups should that page simply redirect here? MyNameIsNotBob 09:40, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Many seventh-day keepers see the Sabbath as an object of personal pride and sect identification. Because of its status and supposed uniqueness, many sect members have been more than willing to identify their churches on this list. At times we've had to pare it down as it was beginning to get bloated with miniscule churches in remote areas with total memberships of less than two dozen. As for your concern, I think the "Seventh day Christian Groups" should link here, not the other way around. I see virtually no purpose in having an obscure article title like that -- I don't find it notable. Linking here would be fine, though. Vincent Valentine 17:05, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Seventh day Christian groups now redirects here. MyNameIsNotBob 09:50, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks really good, thanks. I think this was a positive change. Vincent Valentine 13:52, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  This page and [[Seventh day Christian groups]] 

message: Has anyone else been noticing how anonymous contributors have slowly removed all the anti-Sabbath external links? Vincent Valentine 11:23, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I fail to see how the people who have removed the superfluous external links can be considered "anonymous" as they each have usernames logged in the edit history ... --Vamp:Willow 01:13, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Wow, I can't imagine that VampWillow and I would be considered anonymous. You should probably check our User pages first. As for removing the links, we were clearing the way so as to replace them with links to Wikisource, a Wikimedia Foundation project. In my view at least, that is far better than maintaining 196 external links to a decidedly POV website. Danny 01:15, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I don't understand why we need so many external links in this article.  This is supposed to be an article about the Sabbath as a Christian concept, not a linkfarm.  And I'd hardly call Danny Wool "anonymous". Kelly Martin (talk) 01:17, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Easy. I wasn't referring to Danny, see when I posted that it was before his "contributions." We used to have it nice and separated, with "Anti-Sabbath" and "Pro-Sabbath" sites. Yea, a lot of it was linkspam but after many revisions I thought it ended up quite nice. Then you barge in, don't bother posting to the talk page, delete all the nice Bibleverse links we so carefully constructed and dump half the links. The churches keeping a Sabbath/no Sabbath I thought was informative at the least. I mean that information seems relevant to the article. So rather than get offended by my revert let's talk about the reasons you've decided to dice up most of the references/links in the article. The only ones I particularly care about are the Catholic Catechism links (which were useful and well-placed I thought) and the church links. The rest I could care less about. I'm not sure a separate "List" page is warranted on account of notability, but the information certainly seems relevant to an article. Vincent Valentine 04:22, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah - date noted; our mistake. This page has one of the highest counts of links leading outside Wikipedia and the sister projects and leading users away is not of benefit to us; as such where verses need to be quoted they should be from one of our projects (in this case, Wikisource). The links to lists of churches, again, offers nothing of *encyclopedic* value. --Vamp:Willow 11:08, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How does the list add nothing of encyclopedic value? I mean, if nothing else it seems like it is an obvious thing to have, even if only keeping the main churches (ie, SDA, Seventh Day Baptists, etc.) listed. I agree the fringe churches can go, I've tried to keep those trimmed off as much as possible. I could be seeing this from the wrong light, I just think it's a useful tool in understanding where the concept takes shape. I would reference other articles that do the same, but just because someone else does it doesn't make it right :) Vincent Valentine 03:38, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Removal of external links

message: The section "Biblical references to the Sabbath Day" is missing quite a few references such the begining of Genesis were God blessed the Sabbath.--63.42.12.24 03:35, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Find the word Sabbath in there. Can't find it? That's because it isn't there. That verse is probably literary prolepsis from Moses btw. Vincent Valentine 12:45, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, no: Sabbath simply appears as a verb and not a noun in the verses: Vayishbot = And he rested, ki bo shabat mikol melachto = Because on it he rested. Danny 12:51, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you want to get all literal, I was tacitly referring to "The Sabbath" as in the day of rest which runs from Friday sunet to Saturday sunset -- which isn't in there. Vincent Valentine 02:12, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Biblical references  

message: How is this sentence misleading?:
According to , the Sabbath is to be a "lasting covenant ... a sign ... forever."
"Therefore the Israelites shall keep the sabbath, observing the sabbath throughout their generations, as a perpetual covenant. It is a sign for ever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.’" (NRSV)
:Read again skippy. "Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, [for] a perpetual covenant.
:Perpetual covenant for the children of Israel (Jews). Leaving that part out is misleading and wrong. This article is about the Sabbath in Christianity, not Judaism. Vincent Valentine 22:27, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Claim of misleading sentence