Wikipedia talk:Spoiler/old template talk/Archive 2

message: Spoiler warning: The result of this poll follows.
Spoiler warning: Plot, ending, or solution details follow.
====Support====
# blankfaze | (беседа!) 02:59, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Current version

message: # blankfaze | (беседа!) 02:59, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Support

message: #  —siroχo 02:28, Aug 21, 2004 (UTC) - The phrasing is perfect, but I'm going to point back to my previous comment on why the main text should not be bold.
# Cantus 02:43, Aug 21, 2004 (UTC) - The phrasing is hardly perfect. No encyclopedia that aims to be respected would use the word "spoiler."
# Eequor 02:44, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Oppose

message: Warning: Key plot developments are revealed next. Reader discretion is advised.
====Support====
#Cantus 03:02, Aug 20, 2004 (UTC)
====Oppose====
#Angela. There's no need to advise anything. People can make up their own mind.
#*Duh. "Reader discretion is advised" means exactly "Make up your own mind." --Cantus 02:31, Aug 21, 2004 (UTC)
# OwenBlacker. Too wordy
# Netoholic 16:49, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed version

message: #Angela. There's no need to advise anything. People can make up their own mind.
#*Duh. "Reader discretion is advised" means exactly "Make up your own mind." --Cantus 02:31, Aug 21, 2004 (UTC)
# OwenBlacker. Too wordy
# Netoholic 16:49, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Oppose

message: This poll is flawed.  Without allowing the original version of the template (prior to Netoholic's total redesign), it insinuates that everyone thinks the prior version was inferior.  Consider the Abilene paradox.  Without an appropriately wide range of options, and with the old version missing, it's questionable whether this poll has any merit at all.  --Eequor 14:26, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: When Cantus created this, I think he meant for the poll to be about the wording of the message, not the visual display. The arqument, I think, was about the inclusion of the word "spoiler, specifically". -- Netoholic 17:51, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no mention of that in the poll pre-amble. The previous section in this thread is a discussion about removing the pink box. I think I could be forgiven for not reading Cantus' mind. Pcb21| Pete 20:32, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)

text: Why don't you list a new option? Better yet, why not create a new poll that would be specifically about the question of whether there should exist a box around the warning or not? Aris Katsaris 18:02, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I tried adding another option already.  Apparently somebody objected.  --Eequor 19:33, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: That someone only objected to your adding "options" that weren't actually "options" but rather subquestions that *pretended* to be options. As I said in my comment on my edit: "You can add further complete versions - but not change the question and pretend it's the same poll". You had added an "option" that said only "The word spoiler", and another point that said "For use in puzzles or games". Aris Katsaris 21:17, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)

text: I dislike premature polls. At the time the poll was added, I was in the middle of a dialogue with Owen and Netholic, trying to understand why they thought the box was necessary, with a view to getting a decent compromise. Pcb21| Pete 20:32, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Flawed poll

message: # Aris Katsaris 21:22, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Yes, it should be enclosed in a box. 

message: # Eequor 22:36, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: No, it shouldn't be enclosed in a box. 

message: Maybe the official policy on spoiler warnings is that it should be a judgement call by the main editors of an article.  Then if JoeAverage comes along and adds a spoiler warning to Hamlet, the main editors and writers are justified in removing it.  But if JoePompous comes along and removes the spoiler warning from Fight Club, the main editors can put it back. —siroχo
—siroχo 20:31, Aug 26, 2004 (UTC)
:In the Citizen Kane article I cited above, I note that two different templates were placed on the article at different times by editors who did no other work on the article. Possibly they did not bother to check how few details were being given away. But unfortunately it is often the case in Wikipedia that template enthusiasts and category enthusiast splash something on article after article and it is not quite bad enough for most to complain even if they don't like it. (Enthusasts are enthusiastic and just don't see why others can't share their enthusiasm. That's a fault common to most of us.) And people don't remove it because it isn't worth the trouble of fighting and if is on so many articles it must be consensus, until it starts getting as ugly and stiff as the current spoiler message and begins appearing on too many articles where it obviously should not be placed. I find that "JoePompous" statement rather insulting when you compare him with "JoeAverage". How about "JoeNoTaste" instead of "JoeAverage"? Some simple italicized words saying "Plot suprises revealed" in italics would do as well as this ugly template as an extra warning to anyone who might not be aware that a plot synopsis section of an article will probably contain a plot synopsis. In any case, after reading a couple of sentences, anyone who stumbles into such material will usually stop reading if they don't want to learn any more details. And editors writing carefully will usually obviously segue into revelatory plot discussion without something so crass as a template. They usually do not start an article with "This is another the-butler-did-it mystery involving a hidden trap door under the wardrobe in the locked room". And if someone does start an article that way and there is a reasons for doing so, just add a preceding sentence like "This discussion will now begin to give away full plot details." You don't need standardized ugliness. Try subtlety and careful writing instead. Jallan 01:32, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Judgement call

message: # Eequor 18:05, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: No

message: # Aris Katsaris 18:35, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Yes

message: Which of the following phrases is most appropriate?  If you would prefer a phrase not listed here, please add it.
====Knowledge of the following details may spoil the initial experience====
====Plot details follow====
# Eequor 18:05, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Content

message: # Eequor 18:05, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: ''Plot details follow''

message: #Niteowlneils 03:19, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: ''Plot, ending, or solution details follow''

message: Note that there is a  template, which expands to:
Warning: Solution details follow.
--Eequor 18:05, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments

message: Key plot developments are revealed next.
# Eequor 18:05, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Unlabeled

message: Warning: Key plot developments are revealed next.
# xDCDx 13:02, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Labeled

message: What about a big notice on the main page saying This is an encyclopedia. Facts are revealed. If you want to discover these facts in other ways, do not read about them here.?
:Haha.  --Eequor 05:37, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Main Page Notice

message: Now, Disneyland doesn't have a plot, ending, or a solution.  It just has rides and attractions.  Maybe reword warning there to:
: This article details attractions or points of interest which may spoil the experience of people who haven't visited them.
Peter O. (Talk) 06:12, Aug 28, 2004 (UTC)
Or better yet, reword it to: "". There's nothing in that article that spoils anything. There is some outdated info though. Mr. Toad took his last "Wild Ride" on September 7, 1998. This just in: Toad still riding in California, replaced by Pooh in Florida only. - Nunh-huh 23:30, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spoiler warning in [[List_of_current_Disneyland_attractions]] 

message: There has been Template:Solution for over a week now, and articles with solutions make up a tiny minority of all articles that use this, so I'm going to remove the word "solution" from the text now.  If anyone feels the need to put it back in, don't, instead use the proper template.  —siroχo 12:32, Aug 30, 2004 (UTC)
: I think you should remove the box in Template:Solution to make it uniform with Template:Spoiler, as the poll shows majority against boxes. xDCDx 13:41, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Solution" no longer belongs in the text. 

message: I'm not a fan of either the full border or the hand. I prefer the warning as it looked here: . I'll leave it for a few days, and if I get no response, I'll revert. At the very least, it will draw your attention. - Vague | Rant 03:36, Dec 30, 2004 (UTC)
:I'm indifferent about the box, but being the user that added the hand, I like that one. It's too hard to notice otherwise; there were several pages where I looked around, didn't see a spoiler warning, went to edit one in, and it was there. The version you linked to doesn't have enough to grab attention. I don't mind if you have a better image or another way to improve it, but I think the hand and box not only make it look better/cooler, but also improve it's functionality. Cookiecaper 08:21, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: The warning is silly enough already; it doesn't need an image to make its point clear.  Adding anything more to the template will only serve to distract readers.  ‣ᓛᖁ[ ᑐ] 00:03, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think the warning is silly. It's useful, and it's pretty hard to notice without something like an image. The exclamation point on Kaizersoze's icons isn't straight and that just doesn't look nice. But I think it needs something more than just text to stand out so that people see it. Hmm. Maybe just a big,  bold, red exclamation point instead of an image. Any ideas?Cookiecaper 06:48, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: One idea would be to read the page and note that lots of people think the warning is silly, and lots of people see a need for it to be less prominent, not more.  So why not leave it alone? - Nunh-huh 07:52, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  New designs?