Talk:Ketosis

message: The entry differentiates between Ketosis and Ketoacidosis by saying that Ketoacidosis is more severe and only relevant in Diabetes, where the lack of insulin prevents utilisation of glucose.  Under the Ketoacidosis entry, there is a very soft reference to starvation as a cause of Ketoacidosis, but that entry still only strongly links Diabetes or Alcohol consumption with the condition.
Can a person experience Ketoacidosis where they don't ingest enough glucose or carbohydrates in a period of time (and still have normal insulin function) - or would the symptoms of extreme thirst, fruity breath and saliva, fatigue, lack of endurance, etc, just be extreme Ketosis?  How does one tell the difference between extreme Ketosis and mild Ketoacidosis?  Is it safe to stay in a state of extreme Ketosis (as opposed to just "mild ketosis" or "mild ketoacidosis")?
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Starvation is correct. Animals often undergo periods of starvation when they must rely on their body fat to survive. Scientifically, this is the correct term. 
Ketosis by definition is elevated levels, but not adversely elevated. Ketoacidosis is the term for when the levels are harmful, as in the case of diabetics who do not get insulin User: John R Moffett.
:I believe the comments here, while well-meaning, are misleading. Ketosis is neither normal nor abnormal: it is simply a less-common form of metabolism. Ketoacidosis is always abnormal and life-threatening. One does not imply the other, and neither is a form of the other. Errors of this kind should be removed from WP by editors with medical credentials, IMO. David Spector (talk) 02:13, 4 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ketosis - Ketoacidosis - Undernutrition/Starvation 

message: There were a couple of edits done to the ending debating the safety of ketosis and low carb diets. The previous one put a statement at the end about the results of one study. Although certainly adding peer reviewed references is good it seems that the way this was put in tended to make the article look like it was really about low carb diets. I eliminated this paragraph, added a clause in the previous paragraph mentioning the controversy briefly, and cited that reference and another article. Note that there are MANY studies on the efficacy and safety of low carb diets and ketosis (see low carb diets) with quite varied results and there are many opinions out there from a variety of medical experts. --Mcorazao 22:03, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree. No researchers have yet spent the kind of money that pharmaceutical companies routinely spend to prove the safety and effectiveness of medicines, so the current research results for ketosis and ketogenic diets is unreliable and inconsistent. Until good research is available on which to base medical recommendations, the current unhealthy state of the world population regarding obesity, heart and circulatory diseases, and diabetes is likely to continue unabated, with the notable exception of those willing to experiment on themselves based only on anecdotal evidence. David Spector (talk) 02:41, 4 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Ending 

message: "Ketosis (IPA pronunciation: [ki'tosɪs]) is a stage in metabolism occurring when the liver converts fat into fatty acids and ketone bodies which can be used by the body for energy. It was identified by Dr. Stephen Moody in 1969" 
I saw this cited on answers.com - how long has this misinformation been up there? Any Intro to Biochemistry textbook easily has the correct definitions, why did no one correct information that's contradicted by every single medical school there is?
1. There is no such thing as a metabolic "stage." I think the intended referral was metabolic state. 
2. Ketosis is DEFINITELY not when the liver converts fat into fatty acids and ketones, that's actually called lipolysis.
3. Ketosis is simply an increase or excess of ketone bodies in the blood. 
4. I searched google and every medical journal I have access to, and there is no Dr. Stephen Moody who discovered ketosis. In fact, it's questionable if there even is a Dr. Stephen Moody that exists.
I am going to make the aforementioned corrections, as well as notice of the previous definition being incorrect. 
Shenan01 13:44, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with most, except that ketosis can  be detected by the existence of certain kinds of ketone bodies in both blood and urine. Urine measurements using Ketostix(tm) are not reliable; there are other ways to measure whether ketosis is present (such as an electronic device that I believe takes a blood sample). David Spector (talk) 02:47, 4 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oh wow. How long has the main definition of ketosis been wrong???  

message: I don't know who has filled this article with information that is contrary to modern medicine, and greater reality, but it seems like diet fad propaganda when I see citations like "proteinpower.com", which is inexcusably ri-goddamn-diculous. If you actually go to the website, it's a husband-wife team trying to defraud people by selling "get thin quick" bullshit (they've already published several books). For all their books, oddly, I can't find more than one article they've ever written in a refereed medical journal, and that one has nothing to do with ketosis. --70.131.247.129 (talk) 23:49, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If you've seen his blog, Dr. Eades actually appears to know what he's talking about. I haven't read any of his wife's material. I don't think it's appropriate for the wikipedia, but I can tell you that Dr. Eades is legit. Challenging modern medicine is how we improve it, and so I don't see anything wrong with that. 74.78.98.109 (talk) 20:43, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

text: Why did you restore the 'life-threatening condition' hogwash? I reverted your edit. I don't much care for Atkins, but I wouldn't call it a fad diet: certainly, it has gone through periods of fat dietism, but it's been around for a long time. Not sure about South Beach. Also, 'ref name=ridiculous'? Come on. Try to be professional here. 74.78.98.109 (talk) 05:13, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

text: The first reference under "Controversy" is also authored by a for-profit physician who runs a low-fat starch-based diet center.  No citation to the research literature, just conclusory scare statements.  97.91.254.54 (talk) 07:37, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article is compromised by for-profit marketing propaganda. 

message: In the controversy section there are links to three articles, of which only one mentions ketosis. They are the following:
Weighing In on Low-Carb Diets - Shape Up America! Reveals The Truth About Dieters - High-Protein Diets
I also have to wonder if the sources are accurate or academic. The AHA article, the only one to mention ketosis, says: "In the diets that are also high in protein, substances called ketones are formed and released into the bloodstream, a condition called ketosis. It makes dieting easier because it lowers appetite and may cause nausea."
I cannot begin to describe how terrible this sounds. I've never heard of ketosis lowering appetite through any means other than providing energy. Nausea wouldn't surprise me (though I've never heard of it associated with ketosis) but it makes the article look terribly biased. On top of that, the diet being high in protein doesn't determine whether ketosis happens. 67.246.176.132 (talk) 08:58, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe the controversies section should be deleted, if it is not supported by the references. Ketosis can be dangerous by causing ketoacidosis in extreme cases, and it might have other long term effects, but if we have no references, it has no place here.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.160.88.119 (talk) 21:13, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have removed the "Controversy" heading and instead included the relevant information under a new "Safety" heading. I think this is a more appropriate layout and reduces the potential for poorly sourced material and opinions. Pattkait (talk) 13:16, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: References in controversy section do not support statements

message: The article states "Ketoacidosis may also result from prolonged fasting or when following a ketogenic diet."  An article in Epilepsia is cited.  The cited article does not support the proposition.  In fact, a search discloses that the word "ketoacidosis" does not even appear in the cited article.  Instead, the article is about the use of ketogenic diets in cases of epilepsy.  The article states that many epileptic patients following a ketogenic diet have "mild acidosis," but this is not at all the same thing.
Maybe the author of this sentence in the article only intended the citation to provide an explanation of "keotgenic diet," but as it stands it suggests the article supports the sentence's assertions about ketoacidosis when it does not.  I might also note that this sentence is contrary to one in the Ketoacidosis article that says ketoacidosis does not result from fasting.
I am new to editing Wikipedia, but as soon as I set up an account and learn how to edit I propose to delete the sentence.  Anyone with a citation supporting the proposition is of course welcome to reinstate it. 38.117.178.5 (talk) 23:14, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Please see my comments above in the first "ketoacidosis" section. David Spector (talk) 01:57, 4 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ketoacidosis 

message: I don't understand why the Foster article is referenced as authority for this assertion. Foster et al. found statistically significant results in favor of low carb high fat diets over high carb low fat diets for both 3 and 6 months, and then no statistically significant result for 12 months. I have no idea how that would possibly make the diet controversial. Joshua Auriemma (talk) 19:48, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Foster Article as Evidence of Controversiality? 

message: "Ketone bodies are formed by ketogenesis when liver glycogen stores are depleted."
This statement may literally be true, but is incomplete and misleading.  It suggests that ketogenesis oocurs only when liver glycogen stores are depleted, which is not true.  The liver oxidizes medium-chain triglycerides to produce ketone bodies even in the presence of carbohydrates.  Thus dietary medium-chain triglycerides can produce some level of ketosis without depleted glycogen stores.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/903830 And healthy gut bacteria ferment resistant starch and fiber into short-chain fatty acids, which are ketogenic.http://physrev.physiology.org/content/81/3/1031.short Rcauvin (talk) 20:45, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ketosis Occurs even when Glycogen Stores Exist 

message: Several of the external links point to sites related to Ketoacidosis, which is very different to Ketosis, and may be confusing for anyone reading this article. Indeed this article starts with "Not to be confused with Ketoacidosis".  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.174.78.122 (talk) 09:15, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Please see my comments above in the first "ketoacidosis" section. David Spector (talk) 01:58, 4 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links to Ketoacidosis 

message: The first subsection in the Cause section is titled Ketoacidosis. In what way is Ketoacidosis a cause for ketosis? I suggest that subsection be removed from the Cause section. It is confusing.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.174.78.122 (talk) 09:51, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I Agree. The Cause > Ketoacidosis section is confused and confusing and ought to be removed by someone with medical credentials. Please also see my comments above in the first "ketoacidosis" section. David Spector (talk) 02:06, 4 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I edited this out as i agree it is confusing and misleading. Pattkait (talk) 03:29, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ketoacidosis as a cause for Ketosis? 

message: The section on the "Inuit People"  is interesting, but it is too long and detailed compared to the length of this article and most of its content doesn't really further the understanding of ketosis.  Because of it's length it is a distraction to the overall content of the article.  I encourage someone with good editing skills to see if they can convey the essential content of this section in a paragraph. 71.12.2.174 (talk) 15:02, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree. It is very tangential to the subject of the page since most of the discussion focuses on the idea that the Inuit diet is not actually ketogenic. The discussion of inuit genetics is also not relevant to this discussion and uses a lot of primary sources. I am trying to decide if it should just be deleted or moved to another page (Inuit diet, etc). Pattkait (talk) 17:56, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  The "Inuit People" section is too long 

message: Hey all,
I believe the mechanism section could go into more detail of how Ketosis comes about, and exactly what Ketosis is. I plan on writing up a draft of this section in the next couple days. I'm going to go more in-depth into Ketogenesis and B-oxidation on this page. I see these as essential in understanding what Ketosis as a metabolic state is. As a side note, I do believe this article should talk more about Starvation too! I saw someone else mention that onto the talk page. I've got a list of sources I'll be using here:
The Neuropharmacology of the Ketogenic Diet
Ketoacids? Good medicine?
[2,4-13C2]-β-Hydroxybutyrate Metabolism in Human Brain
Ketone Bodies as a Fuel for the Brain during Starvation
Ketone bodies: a review of physiology, pathophysiology and application of monitoring to diabetes
Physiological roles of ketone bodies as substrates and signals in mammalian tissues.
The therapeutic implications of ketone bodies: the effects of ketone bodies in pathological conditions: ketosis, ketogenic diet, redox states, insulin resistance, and mitochondrial metabolism
Effect of ketone bodies on lipolysis in adipose tissue in vitro 
Metabolic Effects of the Very-Low-Carbohydrate Diets: Misunderstood "Villains" of Human Metabolism
Feel free to let me know if you have sources that apply, or do not agree with any sources listed.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Matt34am (talk • contribs) 04:19, 28 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mechanism Section 

message: Why is it necessary to refer to ketones as ketone bodies?  I have never heard anyone refer to sugar bodies. 94.196.123.128 (talk) 10:13, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Ketone bodies is a term used for a specific subset of ketones.  Deli nk (talk) 11:59, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  ketones and ketone "bodies" 

message: So why is "hepatic encephalopathy" explained as "enlarged liver" in the Eskimo section? If Eskimos all have HE they should be dead. If they all have livers down to their knees but are otherwise healthy, it's not HE. Please explain. I'm going to plug the source into Sci-Hub now to see if HE is mentioned. Thank you for your coöperation. Ellenor2000 (talk) 02:14, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: This is an important clarification. I think this entire section is pretty tangential but I'll try to make it more concise Pattkait (talk) 19:06, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hepatic encephalopathy isn't just hepatomegaly 

message: I am concerned that this article, which is nominally about "ketosis", a "metabolic state" is a bit of coat-rack for ketogenic diets (about which we have other article: Ketogenic diet and Low-carbohydrate diet). This is evident from some slippages in language such as saying "Ketosis induced by a ketogenic diet is a long-accepted treatment for refractory epilepsy". In fact the epilepsy "treatment" is the ketogenic diet, the cited article is about ketogenic diets, and ketosis is a consequent mechanism of action. I think the entire "Medical uses" section should be replaced with a section on "The role of ketosis in medical interventions" and then sources limited to ones which discuss ketosis, so we prevent drift into discussing the diets that give rise to it. Alexbrn (talk) 14:30, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Coatracking 

message: I don’t know why there are some foods that make me feel sad or happy I need to know what foods that I can eat now? 73.69.78.249 (talk) 22:28, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is krtosis? 

message: This section could provide more information on how ketogenic diets are linked to improving the markers of Type 2 Diabetes. Toribarr123 (talk) 16:12, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Type 2 Diabetes 

message: Article mentions ketones in breath can be measured but gives no example. A device by Ketonix is blown into and a reading is given as a number of LED blinks in red, yellow or green. Should it be noted and its accuracy be stated, if data is available? FL Carpetbagger (talk) 13:36, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Breath measurement 

message: The current distinctions of ketosis are "nutritional ketosis," "starvation ketosis," and "ketoacidosis." Nutritional ketosis is the modern medical term for the fed state of ketosis, which distinguishes it from starvation/fasted ketosis, which produces more ketones in the serum. "Nutritional ketosis" was originally coined by Dr. Jeff Volek and Dr. Stephen Phinney Starnche (talk) 22:24, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Out of date distinctions