Talk:Prague groschen

message: Prague grosh or Prager Groschen, what is the common English name for the coin from Prague? Or the one issued in Cracow? Or in general, Grosh, groat, or Groschen? Let's ask Google, but mainly let's  search the American Numismatic Society's curatorial database of coins:
*Record contains: grosh    No records in the ANS database match your search
*Record contains: grosssi  Search returned 5 records
*Record contains: grossus  Search returned 13 records
*Record contains: grosch   Search returned 15 records (added later, not singular of Groschen)
*Record contains: grossi   Search returned 44 records
*Record contains: grosz    Search returned 81 records
*Record contains: groat    Search returned 330 records
*Record contains: groschen Search returned 2908 records
*Record contains: prag      Search returned   7 records
*Record contains: pragenses Search returned  29 records
*Record contains: prager    Search returned  30 records. 
*Record contains: prague    Search returned 485 records
*Record contains: prague Record contains: grosch No records in the ANS database match your search (added later)
*Record contains: prague Record contains: groschen  Search returned 15 records
*Record contains: grossi Record contains: pragenses Search returned 24 records
*Record contains: prager Record contains: groschen  Search returned 29 records
*Record contains: kraków No records in the ANS database match your search.
*Record contains: krakow Search returned  9 records. 
*Record contains: cracow Search returned 12 records
*Record contains: krakau Search returned 61 records
*Record contains: krakau Record contains: groschen Search returned 61 records
Sorry, but grosh is obviously a "original research" translation from slavic grosz, on the internet only due to the Wikipedia articles created by a few authors from, or due to ebay offers.
*"Prague grosh" -wikipedia 137 Google hits (mainly from unreferenced Wikipedia content)
*"Prager Groschen" -wikipedia 9640 Google hits 
*http://someoldcoins.org/saur/d/d203.htm  Prager Groschen
*http://www.geocities.com/new11world/Europe.html  Prager Groschen
I'll change all articles. -- Matthead discuß!     O       10:44, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You're mixing Polish singular "grosz" with German plural "Groschen". If you want to compare it should be "grosz" against "Grosch" and Google gets you 2 million vs 1 million. What is English for grosz/Grosch ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lysy (talk • contribs) 12:54, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Lysy, there are links given above that clearly show that Groschen is used for the actual coins, by American Numismatic Society and others, in English. Let's once again (Talk:Mikołaj of Ryńsk) assume good faith and apply Hanlon's razor for this unspecified Google search, comparing the Polish POV with a hypothetical "Grosch" that is neither a German nor an English name for a coin.-- Matthead discuß!     O       22:07, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Agree with Lysy. And remember WP:UE: grosh is better then grosch(en) or grosz. And Krakau groschen seems to be unused even on German websites - complete OR.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  15:05, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Piotrus, see above, there is no "grosh" in English nor Grosch in German that would apply to the coin, these words are only visible from your own Polish POV that has introduced it to Wikipedia, as the article history proves. That kind of "translation" may have been okay for a stub to start with, but now you better accept the facts, no original research WP:NOR. Besides, in German, its Krakauer Groschen, but as shown above, American Numismatic Society calls it Krakau Groschen.   -- Matthead discuß!     O       22:07, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Only one German site used Krakau Groschen; it is you who is trying to force an OR Germanized name in English Wikipedia; please stop.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  15:57, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Per Wikipedia:WikiProject_Numismatics/Style#Article_titles: Use the local name for the denomination even if there is an English translation. What is the local name of this coin?-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  05:15, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: On the title

message: Google Print test:
* Searching for "Prague groschen": 23 books in English.
* Searching for "Prager groschen": 3 books in English (the most recent from 1945).
* Searching for "Prague grosch": 0 books.
* Searching for "Prague grosh": 1 book in English: "...the Bohemian/Prague grosh - a monetary unit...".
* Searching for "Prague grosz": 0 books.
* Searching for "Prague Grossus": 1 book in English.
Google Scholar test:
* Searching for "Prague groschen": 2 results in English.
* Searching for "Prager groschen": 1 result in English.
* Searching for "Prague grosch": 0 results.
* Searching for "Prague grosh": 0 results.
* Searching for "Prague grosz": 0 results.
* Searching for "Prague Grossus": 0 results.
Amazon.com test:
* Searching for "Prague groschen": 7 books in English.
* Searching for "Prager groschen": 1 book in English.
* Searching for "Prague grosch": 0 books.
* Searching for "Prague grosh": 0 books.
* Searching for "Prague grosz": 0 books.
* Searching for "Prague Grossus": 1 book in English.
Best regards, Evv 05:21, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The usual simple tests

message: *Trade and Urban Development in Poland: An Economic Geography of Cracow, from its Origins to 1795, by Francis W. Carter, Cambridge University Press, 1994, , p.38, 67 & 75:
*:One of these currencies was the 'Prague Grossus' which the Polish king,...
*:...enjoyed by the Prague groschen (grossus Pragensis), unfortunately...
*:based on the Prague groschen (grossus Pragensis), provided a stable coinage...
*The Price of Freedom: a history of East Central Europe from the Middle Ages to the present, by Piotr Stefan Wandycz, Second edition, Routledge, 2001, , p.34:
*:...the two countries - where the Prague silver grossus and the Hungarian golden florin...
Best regards, Evv 05:21, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Books in English 

message: Add #Move or #Keep in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation (with further comment in the "Discussion" section), then sign your opinion with ~~~~
====Move to Prague groschen.====
#Move, as nominator. - Evv 09:04, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Survey 

message: #Move, as nominator. - Evv 09:04, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Move to [[Prague groschen]].

message: A more comprehensive search can be seen in the "The usual simple tests" section above.
Google Print test:
* Searching for "Prague groschen": 23 books in English.
* Searching for "Prager Groschen": 3 books in English (the most recent from 1945).
Google Scholar test:
* Searching for "Prague groschen": 2 results in English.
* Searching for "Prager Groschen": 1 result in English.
Amazon.com test:
* Searching for "Prague groschen": 7 books in English.
* Searching for "Prager Groschen": 1 book in English.
Best regards, Evv 09:04, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Simple tests

message: *Oppose for the same reasons mentioned above in relation to Pražský groš, and per results below. - Ev 05:17, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Survey 

message: Google Books test:
* Searching for "Prague groschen": 41 books in English (and 4 in Czech).
* Searching for "Prague gros": 4 books in English (and 4 referring to people called "Gros" and to "Prague gros- chen").
* Searching for "Prague groš": 0 books.
* Searching for "Pražský groš": 0 books in English (and 15 in Czech).
Google Scholar test:
* Searching for "Prague groschen": 6 results in English.
* Searching for "Prague gros": 0 results.
* Searching for "Prague groš": 1 result in English: The Czechs and the Lands of the Bohemian Crown, by Hugh Agnew, mentioning in page 21, part of chapter 2 , "[a] new coin [...] called the Prague groš.".
* Searching for "Pražský groš": 0 results in English (and 4 in Czech).
Amazon.com test:
* Searching for "Prague groschen": 7 books in English.
* Searching for "Prague gros": 0 books.
* Searching for "Prague groš": 1 book in English: The Czechs and the Lands of the Bohemian Crown.
* Searching for "Pražský groš": 0 books.
Best regards, Ev 20:54, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Simple tests for groš & gros 

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thread_title:  External links modified