Talk:Sirius Black

message: Sirius is never listed as having a middle name, let alone one that states his middle name is Orion, by anything I have ever seen on the internet. I am changing it; if you dispute this please include a citation next time this information is listed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.181.236.50 (talk • contribs) 08:09, 22 June 2007
Its confirmed in Deathly Hallows (his nameplate on his bedroom door). Don't have the book next to me, but will re-edit with a page number later.Yankee.doodle.666 08:34, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Middle Name

message: It seems to be the same vandalism, over and over again. I noticed at for the first while, the IP addresses were similar, save for the last few numbers. I'm wondering if this is coming from an internet cafe or school computers? I hardly think its random, because the edits are the same. Disinclination 16:19, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Some people have very weird imaginations. Michaelsanders 16:31, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

text: or simply dont know much about internet :) 62.194.170.62 03:42, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent continuous vandalism 

message: Regarding a recent change and reversion:
Ted Tonks was originally listed as a muggle-born wizard. An anon changed this to muggle. Reaves then reverted it (with a masterful summary: 'rvv'). He has, I suspect, done the user a bit of a disservice.
In OotP, Ted Tonks is referred to by Tonks as Muggle-born. On the Black Family Tree, however, he is referred to as Muggle Ted Tonks. Now, the obvious answer would be, "The Blacks consider Muggle-borns and Muggles to be the same", which would nicely allow us to keep both statements. However, that is OR. So, we have a choice.
Do we take the published canon statement as the fact, and ignore the more recent semi-canon data (and list Ted as Muggle-born)? Or do we take the more recent data as more representative of what Rowling thinks now, and ignore the OotP statement as no longer being what she thinks (i.e. list him as a Muggle)? Michaelsanders 02:06, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you have a lame comment about me, put it on my talk page, not here. (You don't want to get blocked again do you?)  It's common usage to use "rvv", meaning revert vandalism.  Maybe if you were more familiar with using edit summaries, you'd be able to comprehend.  There's even a handy list of common abbreviations I use on my Userpage.  John Reaves 02:16, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In regards to the real issue here, I don't think it'd hurt to just delete the any reference to his blood or status since the issue is disputed and he's fairly minor.  John Reaves 02:16, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I hope you'll apologise to the user you accused of vandalism then: apparently, the rules are strict about that sort of thing. Michaelsanders 02:23, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And the Tonks issue has to be decided. We can't just ignore it. Michaelsanders 02:24, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Anyway, it seems pretty trivial to me.  John Reaves 02:28, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

text: See    to prove yourself wrong.  I see that being blocked has made you into a more righteous person; you thanked me and you are actually suggesting apologizing.  How about that?  I think it should be settled at a more relevant page, like wherever Ted Tonks is listed.  John Reaves 03:02, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Clearly muggle-born, it's stated in Deathly Hallows. Diana Prallon 19:50, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the update, Diana (and for avoiding the passive-aggressive nonsense above). Could you cite a page number here,s o others can confirm it? - Arcayne (cast a spell) 19:55, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Quote from Ted Tonks: "Refused to register as a Muggle-born on principle, see, so I knew it was a matter of time, knew I'd have to leave in the end" (HP7 295).  Tsunomaru 00:59, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Ted Tonks

message: Proposed rewrite text beginnings are here.
Proposed replacement
:Is this a work in progress?  Half the article is missing. John Reaves (talk) 18:06, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it is. I put it up so that work could begin now - there's a lot still to do (half the article needs to be integrated into the other half). Michaelsanders 18:08, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Did you delete the last names to prevent redundancy? John Reaves (talk) 18:13, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you mean the first mention of the Black Sisters, then yes: it's made clear that they are Blacks by birth (and I even made it more explicit), and their marriages are mentioned later. Michaelsanders 18:36, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Should the proposed text replace the article now, or should it wait until you have finished checking it over? Michaelsanders 17:13, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Give me a little more time (I'm almost finished). PNW Raven 17:30, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just a question in the rewrite; where is it mentioned (in the books) that Sirius stopped trusting Remus? Disinclination 18:44, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

text: I'd presume Remus was referring to thinking Black was the spy following the November Massacres. Though it's possible that he was referring to before that. Michaelsanders 18:55, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Right then, I'll do that now. Michaelsanders 14:32, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's done: thanks for your work, Raven. Great job! Michaelsanders 14:39, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You're welcome!PNW Raven 18:06, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Has anybody considered nominating this article for GA status.  It pretty good now.  Also, when your done with the sandbox, you should tag it for deletion. John Reaves (talk) 22:38, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

text: As a GA reviewer I would fail this - external links need conversion to references, and a final prose copyedit by a non editor of HP articles would be a good idea. RHB Talk - Edits 00:07, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Rewrite

message: I'm curious as to why we are adding fan links on Wikipedia. Arn't those considered linkspam? I see such links deleted all the time.. simply because they're just.. fan sites, links, etc. Disinclination 23:54, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I see your point.  Perhaps just one link to a fan site (if it's good) would be appropriate. John Reaves (talk) 00:02, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going to go through them a little bit later, seing as I really don't think 5 or 6 fan sites should belong on Wikipedia. Disinclination 04:33, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links 

message: Insufficently cited and referenced, but the main thing is that most of the article concerns itself not with the real world but with the fictional one of Harry Potter. Per WP:FICT this is not on. Some of the material in the article would appear to be OR and there are a few peacock terms floating around. Moreschi  Deletion! 10:31, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Ga failed

message: It is possible that Hagrid allowed it to roam the Forbidden Forest, as he does some of his pets; alternately, it might have fallen into the possession of Arthur Weasley who has an obsession with enchanting Muggle artifacts and once owned a similarly capable car.
Removed this and the warning since its just taking up space. Since it has never been approached where it may be, anything else is really OR. Disinclination 06:22, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sirius's bike 

message: Alot of it really seems to be OR. We can't give an accurate reference for anything. Most common relationships (just a note, RemusxSirius is the largest pairing for both on FF.N), whether or not people lament him dying, etc. I really think it should be removed. Disinclination 21:59, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fandom section 

message: In books and movies comparison the 4th point is 
" The films do not mention or reveal anything about Sirius being an Animagus."
I don't think that's true. In the 3rd movie, Sirius does turn into a dog in the Shrieking Shack scene and earlier as well.
You're right, it isn't true. In the third movie, in the Shrieking Shack, Ron points at Sirius and very distinctly says, "Harry's it's him! He's an Animagus."  Xprivate eyex 11:45, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Error

message: Would it be possible to change the picture in the infobox to one of just sirius instead of a poster picture. --munkee_madness   talk 18:50, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Did you have a candidate image in mind?  Please understand that we are highly restricted from uploading copyrighted images you found somewhere - per the Wikipedia:Non-free content policy, in particular images of actors and characters.  Movie Posters are often allowed, but studio shots and screen shots are often not allowed without strong justification.  Unfortunately, to illustrate how a character "looks" is not one of the permissible uses of a copyrighted image owned by the Studio (Warner Bros).  Anyway get us a link to the image you had in mind for posting and we'll see if it can be allowed.  --T-dot ( Talk/contribs ) 19:04, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I suggest using a picture already in the article, such as Image:Sirius black hppoa.jpg.  I don't believe the poster belongs in the article at all, seeing as how it is not expressly mentioned.  María (críticame) 19:36, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Main Picture 

message: I removed this section.  It was unreferenced and total speculation.  If someone has a valid reason, with references, for it being there, please put it back in. Ccrashh 17:18, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dispute/Debate section 

message: On a similar note, I also removed the "Book Versus Film Portrayal" and "In fandom" sections as speculative WP:OR; if reliable sources for these assertions can be found, it may be re-added.  Until then, neither sections add to the encyclopedic content of this article.  María (críticame) 19:47, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[WP:OR]]

message: Why are there solid dates listed in this article? Rowling has specifically kept timelines ambiguous. Putting in that things happen IN 1979 or 1981 is misleading and probably incorrect, anyway. This should be removed.
:Is there an interview where she said that she was keeping the dates non-specific? I think I had heard that she was keeping it vague as well, but cannot recall where. If people are extrapolating form publication dates, then that's OR, and will be removed. I will wait a few days and then purge the dates as such. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 19:58, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dates 

message: I noticed that comment needed a citation, and there is proof in the series. It was stated twice that Sirius' behavior lef to his downfall, once by Dumbledore (HP5) and a second time by Hermione (HP7).
Would this, in itself, however, constitute Sirius being labelled a tragic hero? Realisation of the flaw and destruction (rather than death) of the character are usually required. The flaws described contributed to, but did not directly cause his death, and neither was Sirius himself destroyed, merely killed in combat with his dignity intact. Also, there is no evidence that Sirius thought his behaviour to have been wrong. For example, "unhesitating self sacrifice" can hardly be considered a character flaw. 
:Now, take a moment and think about what you said there. While I think your reasoning is solid, you are making evaluations as to the characterizations of others. We don;t get to make those connections - we cite others (reliably sourced folks) who do. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 16:40, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fatal Flaws 

message: I think that the older version of Sirius' etymology. The parts with Sirius dealing with astronomy I find important, because most of the black family names deal with astronomy. Also the part with the Orion constellation. CSLoomis 03:26, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name etymology 

message: Is it ever explained what the veil is? I never really heard anything about it. 141.157.123.97 17:24, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Veil 

message: I am noticing a lot of html coloring occurring in the name box for the character. Is there some sort of standard that is being applied, or is this some amusing coloring event? - Arcayne (cast a spell) 23:47, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Color, color everywhere

message: I was about to remove this section from the article completely, as it has been uncited for quite some time, despite the cn tags. However, I am going to bring it here instead, and allow for the statements therein to be cited. Once they are, they can be re-added to the article. Not before then. 
:::Sirius is a tragic hero: a well-liked character (by both author and readers), who causes his own downfall through his fatal flaws – in the case of Sirius, his recklessness, his fanatical obsessions, and his unhesitating self-sacrifice being the most important.
- Arcayne (cast a spell) 18:37, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Studying the exact rules isn't a waste of time, and it can only help your future edits (which aren't really bad, imho). It cannot be in the article, as it is something called synthesis. More on that can be found at WP:OR and WP:RS. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 18:09, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

text: Come on, Storyteller - you know full well that fan speculation and opinion get zero rhythm here in Wikipedia. Cite a reliable news article, or JKR calling him that, and you got the makings of a citation. Without it, the connotation cannot return, as it is fan-inspired, speculative cruft. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 05:10, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hear hear! faithless (speak) 05:17, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Needing citation

message: The article now reads that the prank, in which Sirius told Snape how to enter the tunner to the Shrieking Shack and almost got him killed, took place "late in their Hogwarts years." However, reading the Chapter The Prince's tale in DH, it can be derived that the prank actually took place much earlier. The exact year does not become clear completely, but it can be said with certainty that it must have been early in or before their fifth year: Harry witnesses Snape and Lily walking across the castle courtyard arguing as she mentions James saving Snape from "whatever's down [the tunnel]." However, Lily would no longer call Snape her friend after he called her a mudblood at the end of fifth year (after the OWLs, Snape's worst memory in OOTP), calling his friends Death Eaters and him as much as one. (Also, the memory in which Lily mentions James saving Snape is seen before the memory of the OWLs; I'm not sure if the memories in a pensieve are always displayed chronologically, but it could count as another indication.) 
It would also explain why Sirius, James and Peter weren't with Remus at the time of the prank, as they hadn't managed becoming animagi until somewhere in their fifth year. 
However, all of this being said, the HP-lexicon mentions Sirius being 16 at the time of the prank, meaning that it would have been in sixth year. If anyone could confirm this age from somewhere in the books, the article might be left the way it is. Otherwise, I think changing might be in place. Dabih 21:07, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What is this "HP lexicon" you speak of, and where is the citation for it? - Arcayne (cast a spell) 00:55, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The HP-lexicon is http://hp-lexicon.org, an extensive website that even the filmmakes use for their information (said in an inverview with David Yates, I believe). The quote is on Lupin's page, but I have no idea where it's from in the books. Dabih 06:37, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

text: And I wish them godspeed with it. However, unless someone citable mentions facts from it in relation to Sirius Black, we cannot use it. More's the pity. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 06:26, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

text: I was thinking the dates over again later at night after posting this (who needs sleep anyway, right?) and came to the same conclusion about Sirius's birthdate - early fifth year might be very plausible indeed. However, it remains that no date or age was specified in the books, so it might as well have been third year for all we know (which is was why I was wondering where the 16 year came from in the first place). Dabih 06:37, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

text: Thanks, I must've overlooked that part. I remember in an interview J.K. Rowling once stated that Sirius was 22 when he was sent to Azkaban, while the Potters must've been 21 at the time, so it makes sense. Dabih 11:36, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The prank 

message: This edit was just removed fromt he article,and rightfully so, as it has no citations whatsoever. I have repiared that section to here, with the idea that some industrious sould will find the citations necessary to allow the section to rejoin the article. Without it, it cannot.
::::As with many Rowling characters, Sirius's name partly reveals his nature. "Sirius Black" is a pun on his ability to transform into a giant black dog (Sirius being the "Dog Star"), which is often confused with the Grim, which in the Harry Potter series brings death with its presence. Black hounds also appear on the Black family crest.
- Arcayne (cast a spell) 19:34, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Name etymology

message: :Image:HarryPotterGOFPoster-SiriusBlackWanted.jpeg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 22:53, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:HarryPotterGOFPoster-SiriusBlackWanted.jpeg

message: i just wanted to post my views about the family tree.in the family tree its written male and female longbottom.well isnt it supposed to be frank longbottom and alice longbottom.their son neville longbottom who marries hannah abbot.hope my suggestion is right.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shadow dweller28 (talk • contribs) 15:35, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The male and female Longbottom you mentioned are brother and sister, not husband and wife. We don't know who they are. faithless (speak) 00:19, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  family tree! 

message: 2601:248:4E00:43D0:B8B8:BBDC:8B:81E5 (talk) 17:48, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: While he dies in Order of the Phoenix, the character still appears in Deathly Hallows. —El Millo (talk) 17:51, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 2 July 2021 (2) 

message: Change to last appearance to Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix (2003) 2601:248:4E00:43D0:5CDF:6E81:9FCD:FFEF (talk) 13:32, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: , the character appears, though dead, in Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. —El Millo (talk) 18:42, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 26 July 2021