Talk:Mathcore

message: noisecore is not mathcore, they are different.  The author needs to know that, as math core is about technicality, and noisecore is about, well, noise and chaos, with technicality taking a back seat.
===question===
well than what is a good example of noisecore? ive never heard of it?
-ethan
 A good example is The Locust
 a better example is early anal cunt
Early anal cunt (Everyone Should Be Killed) was almost just "noise". TEE-HEE.
:I've suggested that noisecore can be synonymous with mathcore in the lead-in to this article. It's also a term for a type of hardcore techno. The Locust are sometimes considered mathcore (this will included in the article soon). A.C. are a grindcore band, and there's a close relationship between grind and mathcore, which I'm also going to prove, with sources, in short order. Aryder779 (talk) 20:08, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: In the February 2009 Terrorizer, Guilio from Cripple Bastards says: "TNT Records from Germany was the most extreme label around in the late '80s. [Matthias Weigand] definitely put noisecore on the map and launched 7 Minutes Of Nausea and Anal Cunt, who were the most anti-musical and nihilistic face of extreme music at that time, pushing things way over the already inhuman limit that Napalm Death, Sore Throat and Carcass had set." (p. 44) In the same issue, Botch is described as a "noisecore pioneer." (p. 63) Botch is clearly pretty different from what Guilio is describing. I'm not sure what connection, if any, there is between the first noisecore groups, to which Guilio alludes, and the second batch, who're considered mathcore. Aryder779 (talk) 23:10, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no real connection between the two uses of the term. Guilio is clearly referring to the likes of Anal Cunt, 7 Minutes of Nausea and Sore Throat (see Sore Throat MusicMight page for ref). In Terrorizer 75 (Feb 2000), they did an issue long round up of the decade. On pp. 22-23 Kevin Stewart-Panko wrote a two page article entitled "The Decade in Noisecore" and is clearly talking about the other usage; he opens with "[...]I've thrown down much ink regarding the likes of Today is the Day, The Dillinger Escape Plan, Converge, Drowningman, Coalesce, Turmoil, Candiria and Botch, amongst others." Other bands name-checked in the article include Neurosis, Deadguy and Cave In. If I can quote from that article: "The catch all term you use to describe this dynamic, violent, discordant, technical, brutal, off-kilter, no rules mixture of metal, hardcore, prog, math rock, grind and jazz, is influenced by whatever angle you approach the genre from. Metalists call it hardcore, dictatorial hardcore types think it's metal, while the more worldly and open-minded of us have to struggle with the underdescriptive (metalcore, noisecore) or the surreal (murdercore). It seems that as the genre shifted into higher gear towards the end of the 90s and more was written about the bands, that "noisecore" became the agreed upon phrase; probably because of us hacks' inability to come up with anything to replace the sheer impracticality of "the dynamic, violent, discordant..." sucking up our word counts." If you'd like any further quotes from the article, let me know, as it's one of the few I've seen specifically talking about the genre. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 17:19, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: noisecore is not mathcore

message: well than what is a good example of noisecore? ive never heard of it?
-ethan
 A good example is The Locust
 a better example is early anal cunt
Early anal cunt (Everyone Should Be Killed) was almost just "noise". TEE-HEE.
:I've suggested that noisecore can be synonymous with mathcore in the lead-in to this article. It's also a term for a type of hardcore techno. The Locust are sometimes considered mathcore (this will included in the article soon). A.C. are a grindcore band, and there's a close relationship between grind and mathcore, which I'm also going to prove, with sources, in short order. Aryder779 (talk) 20:08, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: In the February 2009 Terrorizer, Guilio from Cripple Bastards says: "TNT Records from Germany was the most extreme label around in the late '80s. [Matthias Weigand] definitely put noisecore on the map and launched 7 Minutes Of Nausea and Anal Cunt, who were the most anti-musical and nihilistic face of extreme music at that time, pushing things way over the already inhuman limit that Napalm Death, Sore Throat and Carcass had set." (p. 44) In the same issue, Botch is described as a "noisecore pioneer." (p. 63) Botch is clearly pretty different from what Guilio is describing. I'm not sure what connection, if any, there is between the first noisecore groups, to which Guilio alludes, and the second batch, who're considered mathcore. Aryder779 (talk) 23:10, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no real connection between the two uses of the term. Guilio is clearly referring to the likes of Anal Cunt, 7 Minutes of Nausea and Sore Throat (see Sore Throat MusicMight page for ref). In Terrorizer 75 (Feb 2000), they did an issue long round up of the decade. On pp. 22-23 Kevin Stewart-Panko wrote a two page article entitled "The Decade in Noisecore" and is clearly talking about the other usage; he opens with "[...]I've thrown down much ink regarding the likes of Today is the Day, The Dillinger Escape Plan, Converge, Drowningman, Coalesce, Turmoil, Candiria and Botch, amongst others." Other bands name-checked in the article include Neurosis, Deadguy and Cave In. If I can quote from that article: "The catch all term you use to describe this dynamic, violent, discordant, technical, brutal, off-kilter, no rules mixture of metal, hardcore, prog, math rock, grind and jazz, is influenced by whatever angle you approach the genre from. Metalists call it hardcore, dictatorial hardcore types think it's metal, while the more worldly and open-minded of us have to struggle with the underdescriptive (metalcore, noisecore) or the surreal (murdercore). It seems that as the genre shifted into higher gear towards the end of the 90s and more was written about the bands, that "noisecore" became the agreed upon phrase; probably because of us hacks' inability to come up with anything to replace the sheer impracticality of "the dynamic, violent, discordant..." sucking up our word counts." If you'd like any further quotes from the article, let me know, as it's one of the few I've seen specifically talking about the genre. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 17:19, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: question

message: I removed the metal bands Between The Buried And Me and Glass Casket because they're not really "hardcore". Some of the other bands I left on there could be mainly metal, but I wouldn't know because I've never heard of them and I have a dial-up modem so song sampling would take a long time. As well, this article doesn't get much attention (nor does the hardcore article as well) so I don't think many mathcore Wikipedians will get pissed off. I'm going to make a "math metal" page for them and others. -theelderraven
:BTBAM seems to be hardcore influenced to me. --141.209.196.70 05:54, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Mathcore & Mathmetal

message: The article doesn't really explain why this music was given the label "mathcore". Does anyone know?
===Time signatures===
Ok, iv`e basically just created an account with Wikipedia purely to add to this fine page on my favourite type of music.
Ok, basically, without a shadow of a doubt, Meshuggah are definately a Mathcore band.  As a drummer i have a great understanding of time signatures, and anything that incorporates about 4-5 different time signatures within one riff alone, substantiates to a calculation.  Basically when writing a beat like that, you cant just sit down and play it, you have to play around until you nail it.  The thing to bear in mind is guys like Tomas Haake and Chris Pennie (Dillinger) are playing two different time signatures simultaneously.  Its not mathematically correct.
The way I define a mathcore band is the first time you listen to it, you shouldnt be able to figure it out, it should take you a few plays to "calculate" and understand the beats/timesignatures etc. 
And then all is well of course
Astrobastard
* I'd have to disagree with alot of that, to me your not defining mathcore, your defining what makes something Math.  As in what makes something Math-Metal is that it fits into the Metal Genre but also has what you described above, what makes something mathcore is that it fits into metalcore, bu8t also has what you describe above, what makes sopmething math-rock (if such a genre exists) is that it fits into rock and has what you described above. - Lester Drake 20:57 03 Jan 2006
:Meshuggah isn't "core" though. That's kind of a problem with having "mathcore" and "math metal" mean the same thing. Although there are very little "math metal" bands.
:Firstly, please sign comments... secondly, although math-metal and mathcore are alike, there are subtle differences... Types of screams; harcore screaming verses more metal screaming (there is a difference), Shredding guitar verses say more dissonant tech riffs, distortion on guitar/bass, other instrumentation... Days will chase 01:37, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Why called Mathcore?

message: Ok, iv`e basically just created an account with Wikipedia purely to add to this fine page on my favourite type of music.
Ok, basically, without a shadow of a doubt, Meshuggah are definately a Mathcore band.  As a drummer i have a great understanding of time signatures, and anything that incorporates about 4-5 different time signatures within one riff alone, substantiates to a calculation.  Basically when writing a beat like that, you cant just sit down and play it, you have to play around until you nail it.  The thing to bear in mind is guys like Tomas Haake and Chris Pennie (Dillinger) are playing two different time signatures simultaneously.  Its not mathematically correct.
The way I define a mathcore band is the first time you listen to it, you shouldnt be able to figure it out, it should take you a few plays to "calculate" and understand the beats/timesignatures etc. 
And then all is well of course
Astrobastard
* I'd have to disagree with alot of that, to me your not defining mathcore, your defining what makes something Math.  As in what makes something Math-Metal is that it fits into the Metal Genre but also has what you described above, what makes something mathcore is that it fits into metalcore, bu8t also has what you describe above, what makes sopmething math-rock (if such a genre exists) is that it fits into rock and has what you described above. - Lester Drake 20:57 03 Jan 2006
:Meshuggah isn't "core" though. That's kind of a problem with having "mathcore" and "math metal" mean the same thing. Although there are very little "math metal" bands.
:Firstly, please sign comments... secondly, although math-metal and mathcore are alike, there are subtle differences... Types of screams; harcore screaming verses more metal screaming (there is a difference), Shredding guitar verses say more dissonant tech riffs, distortion on guitar/bass, other instrumentation... Days will chase 01:37, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Time signatures

message: Alot of Mathcore bands have a sound very similar to that of grindcore e.g. Daughter, As The Sun Sets, The End.  And most Mathcore bands site a large handfull of Grindcore bands amongst their influences.  Mathcore is genrally considered more extreme than noraml metalcore, and use speeds and a lot of techniques which are used less commonly in general Metalcore, but very commonly in Grindcore.  I think this similarity/influence should be mentioned.  -Lester Drake 21:07 03 Jan 2006
:Yes, bands like The Number 12 Looks Like You and Ed Gein are heavily influenced by grindcore. They are often mistaken for grindcore bands. --Metal of Head 21:50, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think mathcore is a derivative of grindcore. Dillinger Escape Plan is also associated with grindcore sometimes. There's an interview with Barney Greenway, cited on the grindcore page, in which he says that he thinks DEP is largely inspired by '90s Napalm Death. Aryder779 (talk) 02:36, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Perhaps the Grindcore influence should be mentioned?

message: I clearly don't see why Daughters is a mathcore band, I don't hear any technical arranges, thats in my personal opinion. I also added Misery Signals to the list, they clearly fit the genre, also I suggest to take Between The Buried And Me from there, we can't confuse progressive and technical music with mathcore, Between isn't just a mathcore band, they mix a variety of genres, making them more like progressive metalcore band than mathcore.
*Talking of bands, are The Fall Of Troy mathcore? They are Math for sure, and they aren't metal, but they are more post-hardcore than hardcore... anyone? Days will chase 01:39, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Half of this article is unsourced original research. If you have a source, please add a band, but only if a source can be found.--3family6 (talk) 20:59, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: bands

message: Right I'm not getting into a an argument on something as stupid however:
"When a punk rock band begins to play technical music, they are no longer punk rock, as the whole point of punk was to play simple, aggressive, fun music. "Hardcore" is a subgenre of punk rock."
Is completely wrong. There is many punk bands who have got progressivly more technical as time went on (Misfits for example). Also by this statement you must also think the as the Clash were incorporating Reggae & Dub influences that they are no longer 'punk'? Anyway punk is a lifestyle before a music genre.--XdiabolicalX 13:22, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm tempted to just delete your trash but I won't. However I will tell you 'Mathcore' gets 193,000 hits on Google which obviously tells you it's not just in someones basement. XdiabolicalX 13:09, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

text: It's funny, one guy at my school once made a comment just like that about math metal when Meshuggah was mentioned. Stupid people.
I made the link to Training for Utopia work by changing the capitalization. They are metalcore and industrial (both of which are true). On Plastic Soul Impalement they are very mathcore, but the sound was distinct to this album (maybe a project?) and did not follow the artists in the band to later projects (such as Demon Hunter). Jlricherson 05:05, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What's really funny is that I'm currently typing a comment just like that myself. Seriously, just because a word has a lot of hits on Google doesn't make it any less manufactured. Anyone remembers "miserable failure"? So, would someone please point out the connection between mathematics and bands like Meshuggah or Dillinger Escape Plan, for the uninitiated like me? That "fiddling aroud" that's mentioned earlier in this discussion page doesn't sound very mathematical to me. Lyrics ain't mathematical either. Where does the math in mathcore come from? And I am studying engineering, you don't have to talk in layman's terms to me. 85.179.165.85 (talk) 19:42, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: D'oh, this was a reply to the paragraph after "Xdiabolicalx", which was clearly marked as a reply by the colon. Thank you for editing, whoever, it doesn't make sense on its own. Whoopee. 85.177.179.166 (talk) 07:57, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hardcore/Metalcore 

message: It comes up with no results when you search math-core... I think someone should do something about that... as that is how it should be written; post-rock, math-metal, post-hardcore... etc. Days will chase 01:52, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not correct for genres with the core suffix, e.g. Metalcore, Grindcore, Hardcore punk, Noisecore ect. --Diabolical 02:48, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Redirection from Math-Core 

message: It is preposterous to say that any bands created around 2003-present have been the roots of mathcore. I am going to remove August Burns Red, Hubble Constant, and the Human Abstract from that list. Such bands are followers, not roots of the musical style. Fmalcangi 21:05, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Roots of Mathcore 

message: The article is completely unsourced OR as it stands, it needs some serious work done to remain as is. --Neon white 23:18, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's written as "complex time signatures" but I've never heard of that term before.  I've heard of compound time signatures, and I understand that they are non-conventional, but "complex"? Counting to a number less then 20 or so isn't really that complex :)  --Syd Heresy (talk) 05:56, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alot of work needed 

message: "The term mathcore comes from the use of many different and irregular time signatures within one piece of music"
This should be removed, or re-written and put in a better place. Rawwwrr! (talk) 02:20, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Needs to be removed 

message: Can someone point me in the direction of someone who actually has used the term "mathcore?" I'm starting to see lots of made up genres so people can put their favorite bands into their own category. I always thought, for the most part, things with odd time signatures and such would mostly fall under progressive metal, like Dream Theater, etc. I really don't think there needs to be an article trying to come up with a new genre. A google search on mathcore gives no results about anything related to music except this article. A sign perhaps?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tlonmaster (talk • contribs) 03:51, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry I have to disagree.  I'm listening to Protest the Hero right now and I can see why this would be labeled Mathcore.  It is certainly not Mathmetal it is far too hardcore influenced.  I think the problem is that a lot of people see the removal of the metal from the metalcore name and think that -cores are no longer considered metal.  This is definitely not the case with this genre.  No one said it had to make sense, language is mostly non-sensical anyway.  So the bands in this genre will display metal sounds but that also have hardcore roots.  Bands that do not have hardcore roots (like Meshuggah, though I am certain there are better examples) do not belong here. marnues (talk) 21:05, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gah? 

message: The current version is poorly written with no citations.--SilverOrion (talk) 04:58, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Needs cleanup 

message: Just look at the opening sentence of this article:
"Mathcore (also known as technical metalcore, technical hardcore and progressive metalcore) is a polyrhythmic and dissonant style of metalcore, recognized for a high level of technical musicianship."
The defining characteristic of mathcore is not that the bands engage in polyrhythms but that time signatures are often asymmetric or non-regular. Somebody just dumped the term "polyrhythmic" as a synonym for "rhythmically complex," instead of thinking what it actually means. Mathcore (as it's defined on this page at least) is much more commonly defined by the strange amount of monorhythms present in the music. For example, take the song "Saint Matthew Returns to the Womb" by Botch. The introduction has three measures of 3/4 followed by a measure of 3/8. All of the instruments are locked into this pattern and attack and release at the same time. The accents of the drums lock in with the bass and guitars, which is textbook monorhythm. Just because the actual time signature choices add complexity to the rhythmic structure doesn't mean that the song is "polyrhymic." In fact it usually means the opposite.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by DFelon204409 (talk • contribs) 08:10, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This is very interesting, and I'm going to try to do some research to figure out what the best way to address this in the article would be. I wish you would share your expertise and suggest how this could be incorporated into the article, rather than being condescending. Aryder779 (talk) 20:10, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm somewhat offended, I have quite a reasonable knowledge of music theory myself, and yes, you're right, but the correct thing to do would've been to edit the article and drop a comment politely explaining why you're right. Merely replacing the word 'polyrhythm' with 'rhythmically complex' will be fine. 143.92.1.33 (talk) 02:52, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nobody on wikipedia understands music theory ("polyrhythmic") 

message: I'm not convinced this is a legitimate alternative name for mathcore; Last.fm is certainly not a reliable source. It sounds like a neologism to me. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 10:43, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've never heard of it before, and if Last.fm's the only source, then yeah, baweet. Shame, really, I'd imagine a legitimate genre with the name 'chaoscore' would sound really awesome. 2birds1stone (talk) 04:13, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Chaoscore

message: I suggest that this page have its original research sections removed (some of which I wrote, by the way, so this is self-criticism), and be merged with metalcore where it will make more sense. Aryder779 (talk) 17:40, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think the merger's a good idea after all. But I am going to try to remove the OR and clean this up. Aryder779 (talk) 17:51, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Does not need a merger AT ALL. In fact, it needs an entire makeover. This is all wrong. You know I love you, but I see you've been masturbating your agenda all over this article again. Will be back later with an arsenal of citations. I facepalmed SO hard @ noisecore Seethingnuclearchaos (talk) 22:38, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps you noticed that the merger suggestion was made almost a year ago, when there was almost nothing on this page. I would like nothing more than for you to bring your arsenal of citations and improve this page. Aryder779 (talk) 22:40, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Wasn't made yesterday, but 5 and a half months is hardly a year. Seethingnuclearchaos (talk) 23:12, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge proposal 

message: Doesn't seem like a relevant genre to me.  I'm removing it.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kranial Tork (talk • contribs) 22:15, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  See also:  Deathcore?? 

message: This notion is stated in the first sentence of the Mathcore page.  Although they appear similar, and very possibly related, to say they are one in the same is a stretch.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kranial Tork (talk • contribs) 22:19, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mathcore: Synonymous with Technical Metalcore/Progressive Metalcore?? 

message: should a new section be added to talk about traits of mathcore?
as one note mathcore has little vocal range and mostly hardcore shouts and clean vocal. not death growls like metal core Jonjonjohny (talk) 21:59, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: There was one at one point, but has since been removed because it consisted entirely of unsourced original research. Unfortunately, because it's not a mainstream or popular genre, published articles rarely mention mathcore let alone its styles and traits. All encyclopedic content must be verifiable. If this is something you truly feel compelled to write, I would suggest collecting reliable sources and starting a rough draft here on the talk page. Fezmar9 (talk) 23:39, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Musical traits 

message: Fear Before the March of Flames, Behold... The Arctopus, Converge are NOT mathcore bands.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mathcore_bands - this link must be either removed or updated. nearly none of the bands listed have the slightest resemblance with mathcore whatsoever.
if you want to know, how mathcore should sound, listen to "Daughters", "The Dillinger Escape Plan", "Rolo Tomassi" or "The Locust".
I would as well reconsider the link between mathcore, noisecore and grindcore - it does not seem to exist, even though all three of them are descendants of punk, oi! and hardcore.
GoreGrindGeek (talk) 12:30, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  The information in the article is not all that reliable. Beware. 

message: There seems to be quite a bit of original research and WP:SYNTH on this page, as well as some outdated refs. If someone could look over this article it would be good.--3family6 (talk) 18:31, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Original research? 

message: On this page, there are only three genres listed: grindcore, math rock, and metalcore. Although I agree that these genres fit there, I also believe that there are other genres that influenced mathcore. Genres such as noise rock, hardcore punk and screamo. Now, I'm sure most people will agree with me on the inclusion of noise rock, and some might be against hardcore punk since that influenced grindcore and metalcore and including it may seem repetitive, but probably most of you will be against screamo due to little knowledge of it or because they haven't listened to true screamo. Bands like Orchid, Mohinder, Swing Kids, Portraits of Past, and countless others SEEM to have some connection to mathcore. Their sound is chaotic, varies in tempo, but at times it does lack intricate guitar work, so I would understand why it wouldn't be included. That being said, maybe mathcore influenced screamo instead of the other way around. They both came out around the same time. When I listen to The Number Twelve Looks Like You, I feel some influence from Orchid or Swing Kids. I'm not going to add any of these genres by myself, as that might cause more unnecessary arguments. I think that at least noise rock should be added, if not the other two.  
Protest the Herp (talk) 13:45, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The issue at hand is reliable sources. If you have some that source the above mentioned styles as influences, go head an add them.--¿3family6 contribs 20:03, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adding more genres to mathcore's stylistic origins 

message: Similar to the merge request which happened on Deathcore's page. It's a short list of bands so it should be merged in the same style. Jonjonjohny (talk) 15:05, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request to merge List of mathcore bands into mathcore 

message: The first sentence reads "Mathcore, also known as math metal." This is not true. 
Meshuggah is math metal. 
DEP is mathcore. 
The former is related to the metal tradition; the latter is related to the hardcore tradition. Yes, many mathcore bands have metal influences, but not all of them. And a ton of math metal bands have absolutely no -core influences; they're usually tech death or death metal with a heavy use of irregular meter and hypermeter. Meshuggah is the perfect example. I would never use any -core sub-genre to describe Meshuggah. 
Starvinsky (talk) 18:46, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I supposed the statement of math metal probably requires a reliable source. Any editors wish to contribute? Jonjonjohny (talk) 22:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Mathcore is NOT Math Metal

message: This list is not hurting the article but showing the bands who are in the genre origins of Mathcore.CombatMarshmallow (talk) 00:14, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Mathcore (with origins in the early 1990s) is older than the vast majority of bands included on the list. There is absolutely no benefit to linking it in the see also section when the actual list of mathcore bands exists and is listed there besides. It is strange to hear you argue that it is "not hurting the article" when you yourself make it a habit to remove any amount of information you don't like from articles without prior discussion.--MASHAUNIX 00:25, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure there is. Its a relative topic and in the see also. Its listed in the info box and definitely Relative. "Remove what I don't like" never. I don't have "feelings" about editing. Just Truth. I remove what shouldn't be there, if and when I have. You know that already. CombatMarshmallow (talk) 00:38, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no such thing as "truth" concerning what should and should not be included in an article. It's all about the editor's opinion on what is relevant, reliable, well placed etc.; all of these have to be evaluated subjectively. Metalcore is related to mathcore as a parent genre, but a list of metalcore bands has no direct relevance to mathcore; if a reader wants to see it, they can go to the metalcore article first and find it there. I don't think there's any point in discussing this, though. You won't change your mind, because from what I've seen, you never do. If I revert your edit, you think of it as a start of a war that you must "win", whatever the context. Please read WP:WIN if you haven't seen it yet.--MASHAUNIX 12:05, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Thing thing is there is never any "war" it would be crazy to assume there is one. Also it would be pretty "out" there for you to assume you "know" what other people are thinking. However if you want to make pretend you know what people are thinking thats your misconception not mine. Try and have a good day ok.CombatMarshmallow (talk) 14:03, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not assuming anything, just describing your behaviour, in the context of trying to explain why I feel like there is no point to discussing edits with you.--MASHAUNIX 14:55, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: You're describing your assumption. Not interested in what you "think" I am. You really like discussions with me. It seems clear. CombatMarshmallow (talk) 15:06, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: No, I don't. I like discussions in which the other person is interested in what I have to say and reaching a consensus, not in proving that the "truth" is on their side. Either way, there's no point in debating this. I just wanted to end the discussion, and say why. If you want to keep the list in the see also section for no reason at all except that you put it there, fine by me.--MASHAUNIX 15:19, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

text: Fine by me. CombatMarshmallow (talk) 15:34, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of Metalcore bands 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20090608050054/http://www.rockdetector.com:80/artist/usa/boston/converge to http://www.rockdetector.com/artist/usa/boston/converge
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hi team - I've been able to permanently remove two nasty tags (improper synthesis and non-notable self-references) due to a major cleanup which clarified the origin and history of the genre. Please keep this article clean! Feel free to discuss further edits here before adding improper synthesis and getting this page flagged again. Thanks. -Chrisbkoolio (talk) 23:04, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Major cleanup 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Mathcore. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080926173209/http://www.musicomh.com/albums/dillinger-escape-plan.htm to http://www.musicomh.com/albums/dillinger-escape-plan.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060426195934/http://www.allmovie.com/cg/avg.dll?p=avg to http://www.allmovie.com/cg/avg.dll?p=avg&sql=16%3A96692
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Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 14:33, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Mathcore. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://www.webcitation.org/6697qjxV3?url=http://www.citizinemag.com/music/music-0306_gregginn1.htm to http://www.citizinemag.com/music/music-0306_gregginn1.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081006212513/http://www.musicomh.com/albums/norma-jean-2_0106.htm to http://www.musicomh.com/albums/norma-jean-2_0106.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081216140310/http://blogcritics.org/archives/2006/10/19/095721.php to http://blogcritics.org/archives/2006/10/19/095721.php
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 22:15, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The lead describes the genre as a fusion of hardcore punk and extreme metal however this is true for metalcore in general so there is no point in stating this if we already start with saying it is seen as a sub genre of metalcore. The first sentence should address the fact that the genre has time and tempo changes as that is the defining characteristic of the genre. Dekai Averett (talk) 21:07, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent Lead Changes