Talk:Couscous

message: Picture is not very good. The viewer cannot easily see what the item looks like, because the item appears covered in vegetables.  Can some wise spark please, ideally upload a close up picture and not a serving suggestion type photo.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.113.77.57 (talk) 11:25, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed - I swapped the first and second pictures. The couscous is actually visible in the now-first photo. GyroMagician (talk) 20:48, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Article Requires Better Picture

message: thumb|240px|left
From the image I found on the the Commons, it looks like raw couscous is 1-2mm before cooking/rehydration. I have changed it in the article, thoughts.Earthdirt 17:41, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Size of couscous

message: I believe that Couscous is pasta, even though it may be "treated more like a grain in its own right."  The Wikipedia article on Pasta states that: "Pasta is a type of food made from the flour of certain grains mixed with water and/or eggs, which is then kneaded and formed into various shapes, and boiled prior to consumption." whereas the definition of Grain on Wikipedia is: "Cereal crops are mostly grasses cultivated for their edible grains or seeds (technically a type of fruit called a caryopsis)."  Since Couscous is made of coarsely ground wheat, mixed with water, shaped into spheres, and boiled (or in this case steamed) prior to consumption, in my view it seems to match the definition of pasta exactly. I would like to hear from everyone about their thoughts on classifying Couscous as a pasta and including this in the lead. Otherwise I believe that it may appear that couscous is incorrectly being called the fruit of a grass plant. My latest revision was edited by Drmaik who stated that there is a consensus that this food is a grain and not a pasta. I can't find much discussion on this topic on this page (other than fabiform's comment below, which he later contradicts after hearing how it is made), so I would like to start a true discussion. Can anyone provide any reason that couscous is not a pasta? Please share your thoughts. Peace Earthdirt 23:00, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The page on "pasta" in Italian wikipedia says that "couscous is considered pasta in the US, but a kind of cereal elsewhere in the world". In England I don't think that couscous is assimilated to italian or chinese spaghetti. If this is the case couscous should not be defined as pasta, but merely "considered pasta in the US". 213.140.6.126 13:01, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That may be true, in fact that same statement was made on this page. However, the word "pasta" has a definition and how couscous is made fits that definition. The simple fact is grains/cereals are an identifiable unground piece of a plants (the seed). Pasta is a grauin/cereal that has been ground, mixed with water and shaped by humans into something to be cooked. I am not sure why a Wikipedia page in Itialian would be a better source than the ones in English, though the fact that Italians don't call it pasta may indicate that the Sicilian immigrants have nothing to do with people from the US calling coucous pasta. I don't think this issue should be viewed as a cultural one, but rather as a search for fact, and the facts are that there is no plant that makes couscous as a seed; couscous is made of shaped wheat flour and water that is meant to be cooked, and that makes it a strange shaped pasta or perhaps something altogether different maybe "food granuals" or "food pellets". It truly doesn't matter if we use to word pasta, it's just WRONG to call this a "grain" or "cereal" because those indicate that it's a type of unground seed from a plant and it just plain isn't.Earthdirt 15:35, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Typical package of spaghetti says 100% semolina - main ingredient in couscous.  It's no more a grain than Orzo, IMO. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Couscous&diff=prev&oldid=204950697 mis-characterized this; fixing.  --IReceivedDeathThreats (talk) 17:14, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Couscous is pasta?

message: How do you pronounce this word? 128.12.32.199 18:45, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Pronunciation

message: (copyvio image removed)--Duk 06:22, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Image

message: Added quite a lot to this page, but have I gone overboard with links to other Wiki pages?? Much of this information is from the historian Clifford White.--Dumarest 13:11, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, you're quite right. My Arabic went wrong. I've corrected that change. --Drmaik 20:28, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  History, and Sub-Sahara 

message: Sorry if I have the spelling wrong - the Wiki article says that foo-foo in West Africa is often called cous-cous. I have no idea if this is correct, but I have added that info to this article. Please correct if it is wrong and do likewise to the foo-foo article. --Dumarest 19:50, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Fufu and couscous in West Africa are totally different, the former made from yams and most common towards the coast, and the latter from grains and traditional in parts of the Sahel. Just noted this and have removed the reference. (If fufu somewhere has a name that sounds like couscous, that is news to me.) --A12n (talk) 03:32, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: foo-foo

message: I mean, it rhymes with "suit" and not "soot". The article gives the IPA so that it rhymes with soot but this is wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.153.11.148 (talk) 15:25, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: OED has /kʊskʊs/. I have heard American say ku:shu:s but always assumed this was ignorance... may be I was the ignorant one? Do you have a source? Drmaik 15:31, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There may be more than one valid pronunciation. Couscous in French (from which I presume we got it in English) rhymes with "suit" and that is also how I always used and heard it pronounced in English. The Arabic original - كسكس - has a short "u" sound perhaps closer to "soot." One alternative etymology (popular, if not necessarily accurate, and in any event missing from the article) is that the latter comes from an onomatopoeia of the sound from cooking it - can that be put in IPA?--A12n (talk) 13:37, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation – whoops 

message: I don't know anything about the origins of couscous but note that the opening "Couscous ... is a food from the Maghreb of Berber origin" could be moved down and combined with the later section on possible sub-Saharan origins as a discussion under ==Origins==. Also the initial description could be more broad rather than focusing first on Maghrebian couscous made from semolina and then mentioning other forms - i.e., a better introduction. --A12n (talk) 13:14, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origins & npov descriptions 

message: The description of couscous seems exactly like daliya (broken wheat) eaten in India.  Are they the same?
viyyer (talk) 00:46, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Similarities with Daliya 

message: I believe couscous is not only popular among Jewish north Africans. I am a Muslim Tunisian and eat couscous at least once a week. All north Africans do!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.225.106.120 (talk) 12:52, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: For Wiki you need a citation rather than personal experience. (P.S. I'm a UK resident of no religion and I eat couscous more than once a week, but that isn't going in an encyclopedia article either) ;) 86.179.43.73 (talk) 18:56, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Popularity 

message: Wouldnt it be better if the nutritional information is given for 100g rather than a "cup"? I know Americans are obsessed with cups, but in other countries apart from the US and perhaps Canada, a cup can be be many different volumes, so it is meaningless. The amount of substance in a cup of any volume will also depend upon it being tightly or loosly filled. Giving information for 100g also means it easy to see the percentages. Quoting things in cups is as opaque as quoting things in firkins or hogsheads. The people who eat it as a staple use metric. By the way, there is no such thing as a "metric cup" either. 92.28.245.233 (talk) 18:58, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: What size cup?  In the US there are both legal and customary cups, with the former slightly larger.  And, as the article shows, there is, in fact, a metric cup.  JDZeff (talk) 21:40, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

text: presumably legal given these are figures for USDA nutrition info.  Fortunately someone has put the SI conversion next to the one use of "cup" in this article. --Erp (talk) 01:46, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  A cup? Big cup, small cup, medium cup? 

message: There's a website here that explains the process, this should probably be added to the article. http://www.clextral.com/editorial.php?Rub=158 Muleattack (talk) 18:11, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Modern manafacturing 

message: Cous Cous is also typical food of western Sicily. Thuis tradition may be derived from the times wherein Sicily was under Arab/Berber control. I do suggest to redraft the preamble of the page as to indicate Sicily, along with Tunisia an other northern Africa country, as a place wherein couscous is a common dish.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.92.153.12 (talk) 10:48, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I added "Citation needed" to the claim about Sicily. It also puts the categorization in some doubt. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 08:56, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sicily 

message: There is a complete section missing in this article. It is not mentioned that the couscous was introduced in Portugal (Portuguese spelling: cuscuz), and from there it was taken to Cape Verde and Brazil. In Cape Verde, cuscuz is a maize flour cake, cooked by steaming. In Brazil cuscuz is steam cooked dish of either maize, rice or cassava flour. 95.93.16.111 (talk) 15:08, 23 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: In Portuguese-speaking countries

message: The preparation section combines production, which is usually done by a manufacturer, with preparation, which is done by a cook. It also does not give enough information to allow preparing couscous, in particular it does not give the amount of steaming time needed. This information should be added, with an estimate for different sizes of couscous grains.
I have again added the preparation information for instant couscous, which I had originally added in 2010. The information comes from the back of couscous boxes and someone may wish to locate a notable source, but as the most practically useful information on the whole page, it should not be removed unless replaced with more useful or corrected information. Enon (talk) 16:36, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Preparation 

message: 50.93.248.232 (talk) 02:43, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: as you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 13:02, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 28 May 2016 

message: Couscous is also traditional in Bulgaria, called куткус (kutkus) in places, for example in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breznitsa  http://bnr.bg/radiobulgaria/post/100710612 77.85.114.25 (talk) 14:52, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bulgaria 

message: WHo is Lucie Bolens and Charles Perry ?
 
 "Lucie Bolens affirms .. Nevertheless, Charles Perry ..."109.49.141.100 (talk) 10:52, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: They are two people listed just by surname in the references.  I was able to find Bolen's and one of her books; wasn't able to find Perry's exact one, but will continue looking.   I edited the article to introduce them just as historians.  Hope you think it reads a little better.  Kind regards, J. 82.69.229.22 (talk) 13:58, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Names without links are meaningless and confusing 

message: Found and removed various copyright infringement of http://www.cliffordawright.com/caw/food/entries/display.php/id/34/ I'm not sure I got them all. --Erp (talk) 03:46, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  copyright infringement 

message: A discussion with my wife relating to this evening's meal led me to this page for enlightenment.  The introduction states that it is made from durum wheat semiolina, but the remainder of the article contradicts this by listing alternative sources. --Brian Josephson (talk) 17:19, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: There is a bit of confusion which needs to be cleared up. In part it is because the name exists in several cultures and is applied to different source materials though the method of cooking seems to be similar. I'm not sure what the US legal standard is (if there is one). I've just found a source for the European Union standards. --Erp (talk) 22:13, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Good! I see the Free Online Dictionary definition refers to 'semolina or other grains' but the article is fine as it is now. That's a really appetising picture going with the article, is it not?  --Brian Josephson (talk) 08:17, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is couscous made of? 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:
* 
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 12:51, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion 

message: I found in the Wright source a mention that shards of the bottom vessel (he called it marmite-like, marmite is a French cooking vessel) were found at Chellala in Algeria.  Unfortunately he did not give a source.  My guess is that the source is in either French or Arabic.  Maybe the Cominardi, François. 1995. Le ksar de Chellala Dahrania: au coeur des Monts des Ksour. Textes de documentation saharienne 7. Centre de documentation saharienne.  There is also a website about Chellala https://www.chellala.com/index.htm (in French) though, as far as I can see, nothing about archaeology (my French is extremely poor). --Erp (talk) 01:19, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: The website is not a reliable source (Clifford A. Wright is not a historian nor an archaeologist). I changed it with (Bolens, 1989) and (Perry, 1990) -TheseusHeLl (talk) 06:05, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Though more reliable than the unsourced Numidia that was there before.  Thanks for getting better sources.  Though I note that Lucie Bolens info is being paraphrased in the source in the article with its source being: 
* Bolens, Lucie. "L'étonnante apparition du couscous en Andalousie médiévale (XIIIe siècle): Essai d'interprétation historique" [The surprising apparition of couscous in Medieval Andalusie, thirteenth century: An attempt of historical interpretation]. In Mélanges en l'Honneur du Professeur Anne-Marie Piuz, 61–70. Genève: Université de Genève, 1989.
Also I think
* Chemache, Loucif, Farida Kehal, Hacène Namoune, Makhlouf Chaalal, and Mohammed Gagaoua. 2018. “Couscous: Ethnic Making and Consumption Patterns in the Northeast of Algeria.” Journal of Ethnic Foods 5 (3): 211–19. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jef.2018.08.002.
Which also mentions Bolen's work and has fairly lengthy intro on the history of couscous might be an useful source. --Erp (talk) 20:42, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep it's paraphrased by the food historian Teresa de Castro and the work is edited by the anthropologist of food Solomon H. Katz and the culinary historian William Woys Weaver. I wanted to use the paper you mentioned. But none of the authors in "Couscous: Ethnic making and consumption patterns in the Northeast of Algeria" are historians or anthropologists of food. I don't think a paper written by biotechnologists and food technologists could be used in the Origin and history section. -TheseusHeLl (talk) 21:30, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

text: Charles Perry has never mentioned the sentence "northern Algeria and Morocco" when he stated that couscous originated between the 11th and 13th century.
Why it has been inserted as a quote from Charles Perry!
-Colos1 (talk) 08:53, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archaeology 

message: Fix the mass in the infobox. 1/4 cup cannot weigh 21g and contain 42g of macronutrients. Consider using a unit of 100g so that the nutrition value can be directly compared to other products, which will have a slightly different serving size rounded to cups. -- J7n (talk) 09:35, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grams in the infobox 

message: Nobody is suggesting that it isn't used in Israel, just like it's used everywhere (just search for "Couscous + any Mediterranean country" and you'll see), but there is no reason to list Israel in the lead, alongside the countries that are closely associated with the dish. In case one wonders why France is the exception: it's been known there since the 16th century, France was fully exposed to it when Algeria became part of France, it's widely consumed there (not just by the Maghrebis and the Pied-Noir), the word Couscoussier is French and so is the word Couscous, etc. M.Bitton (talk) 13:58, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  January 2022 

message: With regard to this change by the "40.133.234.46":
*Their  is not only insulting, but it's also baseless as you shall see.
*Their  claim is factually incorrect. The use of Tashkil is a matter of editorial judgement.
*They changed the Berber name " " to "", even though the cited reliable sources say otherwise.
*They changed "kaskasa ‘to pound’" to "kaskasa ‘to pulverize’" and added a fictitious ref (their commentary between ref tags) to support their OR. The cited reliable source and others support the former.
*They replaced "root *K" (which is attributed to a Salem Chaker, a specialist in Berber linguistics) with what they found in an unreliable source (the recipe book that they added).
The IP was made aware of of this, yet they chose to ignore it (after blanking their talk page to continue their edit war). M.Bitton (talk) 16:19, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: 40.133.234.46 IP has been blocked for editing warring for two years so is unlikely to respond. --Erp (talk) 02:14, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unjustified changes under false pretences 

message: The problem is that the previous version is quite biased, since it claims couscous was introduced to Europe by France when there are much more reliable sources stating it was introduced by the Almohads in Al-Andalus and in Italy (Sicily, Sardinia) long before. I believe we need a more neutral view in the lead. What do you think? Dido789 (talk) 01:29, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: that's not what the lead says. M.Bitton (talk) 01:35, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: It pushes the view that couscous was introduced to European cuisine via France during the 20th century, “It was integrated into French and European cuisine at the beginning of the twentieth century”. This is completely false, as it was first introduced via the Almohads in Al-Andalus and then made it’s way into Italian cuisine in Sicily and Sardinia in the 18th century, much before the 20th century when France was in Algeria. I added more reliable sources for this. The sources stating it was introduced to European cuisine via France are also all in French, and not in English! It’s very weird!!! Dido789 (talk) 01:40, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: There is a difference between being integrated into a cuisine and being consumed once a year as a novel dish (Sicily). Besides, Andalusia was part of the Muslim west and not Europe. M.Bitton (talk) 01:43, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

text: What’s your evidence that it’s “consumed once a year as a novel dish”? Where are your references? Dido789 (talk) 01:46, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Where is your source that says it's part of the Italian cuisine? M.Bitton (talk) 01:47, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: You removed it! 😂 This was the source I cited: https://www.martinotaste.com/en/blog-en-2/couscous_history_of_the_mediterranean_food/#:~:text=Couscous%20is%20a%20food%20with,Africa%2C%20especially%20in%20the%20Maghreb. It clearly states: “Couscous, as we have come to know and love it, is for us a testament to how well ancient traditions and modern processes work together to create a new product that is now an integral part of Mediterranean cuisine. The versatility of the food is why it quietly slipped into Italian cuisine and we feel as though it’s always been a part of it.” Dido789 (talk) 02:38, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: That’s just one of the sources. There were others too. There are others already cited in the article that clearly state it was a popular dish in Italy in the 18th century, much before France was in Algeria. If you check you will find it. Dido789 (talk) 02:41, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Vendor marketing materials (in this case a self published blog post) are terrible sources. MrOllie (talk) 02:44, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

text: In this source (https://www.sanpellegrino.com/uk/sparkling-drinks/zesty-food/couscous-alla-trapanese) it also states: “Sicilian cuisine is very diverse, as it has been influenced by the many cultures that visited its wonderful land in ancient times. Couscous is a very important example. Couscous is typically a traditional Moroccan dish, but while in the African coast it is prepared with meat and vegetables, in Sicily - and more precisely in Trapani - it is seasoned with fresh fish caught in the Mediterranean Sea.” Dido789 (talk) 02:44, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Another unreliable vendor source. This is already covered adequately in the history section of the article. We don't need a badly sourced version in the lead section. MrOllie (talk) 02:46, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Here’s more: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=SSHSB8VOL3oC&pg=PA11&dq=italian+cuisine+couscous&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj2gpyS2L2DAxWlUkEAHU5aCqs4KBDoAXoECAgQAw#v=onepage&q&f=false This clearly states Sicilian couscous is part of Italian cuisine. Dido789 (talk) 02:47, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

text: Therefore, couscous is part of Italian cuisine 🤤 😋 Dido789 (talk) 02:49, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, this is already covered in the history section with a good citation to a book from a reputable academic publisher. We don't need and should not use vendor blog posts and mass-market cookbooks. MrOllie (talk) 02:53, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  My recent edits