Talk:Kingdom of Navarre

message: I want to point one thing that i think should be corrected, the image of the "arrano beltza" should be the black eagle over a red bottom, not yellow, the traditional coat of arms´ colour was always red.Layo 11:22, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See Arrano Beltza article. The only (preserved) historical seal with that icon that is colored has a yellow background. Red was indeed the traditional color of the most common escutheon of Navarre: the 8 crossed (golden) bars, that eventually evolved in the modern version of the chains. Another escutheon that I have read about was a botton pointed crescent (Moon) over an 8-pointed star (background was maybe blue, not sure). Also there is the flower of 8 petals, found carved in stone mostly. --Sugaar 22:31, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Arrano beltza

message: That is impossible, Navarra was "conquered" by Castille in 1512 and the anexation of the iberian side of the kingdom signed in the "Cortes de Burgos" of July-1515. Altought Ferdinand the Catholic was regent in Castille the conquest isn't aragonese, but castillian.
-Fco
:You're right. And the (forced) "pact" was signed in 1513, not 1515 (though maybe it was ratified in this year).
::The Navarrese people was forced to accept Castilian sovereignity, with the compromise by the invaders of respecting the Kingdom's entity in all aspects, specially in what refered to the fueros. The pact was formalized in 1513 by oath of the first Castilian viceroi. Example of the sort of willingness with which the Navarrese accepted the new situation was the pretension of Pamplonese people, in the moment of pacting their surrender to the Duke of Alba, that their acceptance of the new monarch was with the condition of being excepted of any compromise of fidelity to him, in case that the Labrit family would in the future be in conditions of recovering their throne. (My direct Spanish-English translation of a passage from Historia de Navarra, el estado vasco, Mikel Sorauren, 1998, Pamiela Ed. ). --Sugaar 22:24, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I corrected it according to the above text. --Sugaar 08:11, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Aragón-1515

message: # the Kingdom of Navarre evolved from the county of Pamplona to the Kingdom of Pamplona, later renamed as Navarre, evolved from the county of Pamplona. Reason: the name Navarre did not appear until the 12th century. 
# Enneco Aresta (Iñigo Arista or Aiza in Spanish) by Enneco Aresta (Basque: Eneko Haritza, [Spanish language|Spanish]]: Iñigo Arista or Aiza). For obvious NPOV linguistic reasons. 
# The first historic king of Navarre by The first historic king of Pamplona. Equally I've changed Navarre for Pamplona and Navarrese for Pamplonese, along the history text, until the Aragonese period, except when had only (modern) geographic meaning. 
# Roncesvalles by Roncesvaux, most common English/historical term with additional note (Orreaga in Basque, in the first mention. 
# The pass of Roncesvalles, which leads from France to Navarre by The western Pyrenean passages, only ones allowing good transit through the mountains, Catalan ones apart. It's not even wholly clear if Charlemagne and Roland were effectively defeated in Orreaga-Roncesvaux or some other pass. 
# The Vascones from that area and more north, known as the Vascongadas, were never able to fight for themselves, and due to increased pressure ran from the sight of war and defeat, never being able to defend themselves successfully against the Moorish invaders if it had not been for the help of the Navarra King Sancho el Fuerte. Super-POV and extemely imprecise. Deleted (as adds no info at all). 
# The domination of Charlemagne, who conquered Navarre in 778, was short-lived by It's not clear how solid was the Frankish influence over Pamplona, whatever the case, in August 15 778, after retreating Charlemagne had demolished the walls of Pamplona, the Basque tribes annihilated his rearguard, led by Roland, at some mountain passage known to history as Roncesvaux. Also reorgainzed following passages to give chronological consistence to the narration. 
# Added: In the year 905 a Leonese chronicle mentions the extension of the Kingdom of Pamplona for the first time, being clear that it extended then to the Western Basque Country as well.
# The first historic king of Pamplona was Garcia Sanchez's son Sancho II Garces, nicknamed Abarca, who ruled from Pamplona as king of Navarre and count of Aragon from 970 to 994 by Garcia Sanchez's son, Sancho II Garces, nicknamed Abarca, ruled as king of Pamplona and count of Aragon from 970 to 994. If there are historical documents since 905, Antxo Abarka can't be the "first historical king". And again the inconsistence of Navarre before this name was ever used. 
# He ruled over nearly all Christian Spain by less POV and more precise: he ruled over Pamplona, Castile and Aragon, exerting protectorate also over Leon and Gascony. Gascony can't be considered to be in Spain, obviously. Kept another sentence below on the same line because I don't want to harass. 
# Garcia of Najera received Navarre, Guipuzcoa, Vizcaya, and small portions of Béarn and Bigorre north of the Pyrenees. Incorrect re. Bigorre and Bearn. The Basque provinces did not exist yet. Replaced by: Garcia of Najera inherited the Kingdom of Pamplona, from the proximity of Burgos and Santander to the border with Aragon.
# Edited: The eldest legitimate son, Ferdinand I ruled as high king having Castile as his seat, and he enlarged his realm by various means.  His Navarrese line ruled as kings of Castile and Leon. The claim of "high king" is totally out of place (false). The only vincle was Aragon being nominally dependant of Pamplona, soon vanished. Saved as: The eldest legitimate son, Ferdinand I was the frist Castilian monarch to use the title of King and he enlarged his realm by various means (see Kingdom of Castile).
# Garcia of Najera, the younger legitimate son of Sancho III,  founded a new line of rulers of Navarre. The kingdom of Navarre then comprised the present province of Navarre, the Basque Provinces (which were later lost to Castile), and, north of the Pyrenees, the district called Lower Navarre, now a part of France. Obviously he founded no "new" line, specially as he died in battle against his brothers and his son, Sancho García IV of Peñalén, was murdered also by his own brothers. Edited this paragraph totally. 
Documentation used: Historia de Navarra, el estado Vasco. Mikel Sorauren, Pamiela Ed., 1999. . Will add to references. --Sugaar 23:29, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some changes 

message: A bit of background about it. The project started as a common endavour of PNV (majoritary in Biscay and Guipuzcoa) and the Carlists (the same in Alava and Navarra). Its stated aim was to salvage both the foral privileges in the new constitutional context and to create the conditions to counteract the anticlerical policies of the II republic (it has to be rememebered that both  were at that time  ultra-catholic, if not outright integrists). At one point, both parties quarrelled (rather unsurprisingly) and the Carlist withdrew its support to the project at the eleventh hour. Just party politics started the project, just party politics drowned it.Wllacer 12:17, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think I have edited that part (nor I'm sure if it should be here, as it's long after Navarre was invaded). Just to mention that Sorauren considers that the majority of delegates had a mandate to vote in favor and they were pressed to abstain. So the people voted one thing (joint statute) and their representatives the opposite. --Sugaar 16:53, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  1932 Vasco-Navarre Autonomy 

message: In the line of our previous discussion and, as nobody said anything, I've added the chronicle in Latin plus an English translation (an hybrid of both posted by Wllacer above).
I have also created and added a map that fits that chronicle. Note: the chronicle mentions that Pamplona conquered up to Tudela, yet we know that the Banu Qasi were there for the 9th-11th century period, all the time as allied of Pamplona. Hence, in the map, I've left them in the three towns that are typically mentioned as theirs: Tudela, Olite and Arnedo. --Sugaar 03:16, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Added the Albeldensis chronicle and a map

message: What was the official language of Navarre's administration until before Henri IV became King of France and Navarre?
:Before 1512 the bulk of the documentation in navarrese offical archives (f.i. the "camara de comptos") is in "navarrese", a romance form very close to castillian (basically indistinguishable in the latter phases). But, IIRC they host also many documents written at least in  Occitan and "Oil" French.
:From 1512 onwards, for the "Ultrapuertos" residual kingdom i don't know for sure, but is has to be remembered that the  "court" was in Pau, not in Navarra proper, so probably -i guess- bearnese or some other occitan dialect ought be the chancery language--Wllacer 07:32, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Language 

message: What role if any did the Basque language play? Did its rulers like Henri IV speak Basque or only Occitan and Navarese Romance?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ahassan05 (talk • contribs) 14:42, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Role of Basque language 

message: The Baztan (municipality) is a mess - someone has added a lot of historical data, bordering on biographical material - badly ref'd throughout. Most of it has little to do with Baztan itself but before I go and prune it rigorously, I was wondering if someone would have a look who's good on the history side of things to see if there's anything that can be salvaged for this page? Akerbeltz (talk) 23:53, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Baztan 

message: Infobox section "Religion" is reserved for state religions only, see England, Norway, etc. In this case religion of the ruler, i.e. Roman Catholicism and Reformed (Calvinism). Why do you mention all of them, including Islam?Ernio48 (talk) 12:43, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it is not. Not that I am very particular about this, but check out example here, it is clearly stated that it refers to the population's practices. Iñaki LL (talk) 13:44, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Religion 

message: Good evening, first of all, if you are adding something on my talk page, please sign your comments, do it at the bottom of the page. If it is something related to the topic, bring it here and not to my talk page. As for the topic, if you want to add that Navarro-Aragonese was a language spoken on the kingdom, add it in the right place. I have fashioned that language article, and I can assure you that Navarro-Aragonese, albeit attested since 11th century on the fringes of the kingdom, it was not the core language of the kingdom at all, it was mainly a status language from the 13th to the 15th century. On the language used, the Arab expedition of 924 clearly states that in Pamplona, they cannot be understood" because they speak Basque for the most part. The lingua navarrorum is Basque. A number of languages have been used, like in so many kingdoms, also Occitan and Erromintxela. That does not make them the language of its natural community (or nation, in it classical meaning) of Navarre.
The rulers of kings of Navarre, believe me, during that period, what was a king and what a ruler or prince, did not make a big difference. The rulers of Navarre are called prince/rulers/kings of the Basques (vascones, bashkunist, etc.). Put your claim in the right place and that should do. You do not need to send Collins nothing, just check the page, do not add noise. By the way, the reference you eventually added inline and I removed for misrepresenting sources by WP:SYNTH does not specify the page. Iñaki LL (talk) 23:34, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Basque and not Basque once again by new editor

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thread_title:  External links modified