Talk:Tamale

message: Someone edited this into the article: "Originally called "Singular> TAMAL, Plural>> TAMALES." Somehow when people pronounced "tamales" to English speaking individuals, the word sounds "tamale" so therefore in United States the word has been used "tamale" for singular-plural of the product (Tamal). The reason is because the "S" is silent and/or the word is pronounced too fast."
Really? That's not even proper grammar. Fixing it as soon as I finish typing this. Alistoriv (talk) 22:32, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I've always thought of the sing. "tamale" as an import error, but what the heck. It's certainly the dominant form and it's closer to the Nahuatl root. –Hajor 11:24, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)

text: TamalE. I grew up eating AND making tamales, and never in my LIFE have I heard one called a "tamal". I thought someone made a spelling error until I caught the nose-in-the-air bit letting me know _I_ was wrong. Bull, I say. And, if it's so "incorrect" to call one tamale a tamalE, then why isnt the page labeled "Tamal"? A word is only as "correct" or "incorrect" as it's usage. Thats how words work.--98.18.57.173 (talk) 11:29, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Actually, the word is "Tamal". The added e is the result of English native speakers unaware of singular/plural forms in Spanish; English adds only "s", Spanish adds "es". Same thing happens with "FederalE". 148.223.197.98 (talk) 20:30, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

text: In English, it is tamale (singular)/ tamales (plural); you don't own the English language. Tamal is not in the English language dictionary. We go by reliable sources, not personal opinion.Novangelis (talk) 22:16, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it is Tamale in English. This is, of course, the English version of Wikipedia. If you'd like to see the Spanish version, I invite you to hop on over to the Spanish version of Wikipedia. Alistoriv (talk) 01:04, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Tamal vs. tamale

message: The pages tamale and humitas don't distinguish a clear difference. Humitas says it is another name for tamale while tamale says humitas are smaller and sweeter -but the humitas page discusses savory ones and has no mention of size. If there are no clear differences it is probably best to treat this all in one article. That gives a better idea of the full range and variation in the subject as well. Rmhermen 19:50, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: tamale + humita

message: The first sentence states that a tamal is made from corn (maize) flour mixed with water and lard.  This is not accurate, as corn flour is simply corn that is ground down to a fine powder (past corn meal), whereas masa is made through nixtamalization of the corn, which makes hominy (also called nixtamal) that is then ground into a powder.  The second paragraph has masa, which redirects to that page, which explains it properly.  Therefore, I recommend that "corn flour" be changed to masa mix, with the hyperlink.  If someone is not sure what masa is, they can jump to the masa page and learn what it is.  --Asacan 14:42, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Go ahead and amend the article accordingly. --Ezeu 15:10, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

text: It seems the amendment got deleted when the article is reworded. I attempted to add it back, although, since I couldn't fit both nixtamalization and hominy in the article, I used the one with which I am most familiar. Readers can find the link to nixtamalization in the hominy article.-- trlkly 08:19, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Yes, they can be served cold, though they do taste much better hot.--98.18.57.173 (talk) 11:32, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Corn (maize) flour?

message: From the intro: "In English-speaking countries the tamal is usually called tamale in the singular, though there is no obvious linguistic basis for this name." 
Aside from this being a very subjective statement, it is also very inaccurate; I think the reason for English speakers saying "tamale" is blatantly obvious: in English, adding an 's' to the end of a noun is the most recognizable way to pluralize it. It's easy to see how people saw "tamales" referring to more than one, and then decided that to get the singular form you just drop the 's'.
In any case, unless we can find some documented analysis of this topic, it seems irrelevant to discuss the origins of why English speakers say "tamale". Noting the use of the term would be fine enough without commenting on it, I think. Trau  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.107.88.186 (talk) 21:27, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That sounds like a reasonable compromise.  Just note that "Tamale" was created by applying English singularization rules to a Spanish plural, and that it differs from the Spanish singular of "tamal".  Then prescriptivists like me can point to this objective fact and say, "And this is retarded" while descriptivists can point to the same objective fact and say, "there's no problem with this."  The Wiki ideal.  --123.218.238.83 (talk) 01:33, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

text: Man, if Wiki can call a chile a chili, then I think TAMALE is fine!! Europeans dominated the 'chili' argument even though the word and the fruit is AMERICAN. Nuff said. --Jsderwin (talk) 00:10, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: "No obvious linguistic basis" for "tamale"

message: The traditional guajillo sauce used for tamales should be mentioned. Badagnani (talk) 02:59, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Guajillo sauce should be mentioned 

message: I changed "Native American" in the intro paragraph to "American Indian". The former, in addition to having fallen out of favour in the last decade, is also most commonly associated with the Indigenous Peoples of the United States and could cause confusion in this article about a primarily Mesoamerican dish. American Indian is currently the most accepted term in anthropological circles for referring to the indigenous peoples of the sub-arctic (i.e. non-Inuit/"Eskimo") Americas. Wormwoodpoppies (talk) 17:43, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No good, because they're also part of the traditions of non-U.S. indigenous peoples living to the south of the U.S. Badagnani (talk) 17:45, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ethno-nomenclature.  

message: Wherever there are Latin American immigrants, there are Tamales... which means they're everywhere in the U.S.
There are Tamale Festivals in several places that feature Tamales of all kinds.  For instance, Indio, CA recently held one.  A quick web search turns them up.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.29.117.62 (talk) 05:46, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. A section on the Delta tamale (perhaps even a master article) would be good. The Delta tamale differs in a few ways from both Mexican and Latin American tamales -- mainly in the fact that the juices from the cooked meat are used to boil the tamales, and they can be spiced in the meat, cornmeal mix, AND the cooking water. I'll work on this later. Joelmoses 2000 (talk) 00:56, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

text: I created a United States section with some very short descriptions. 75.56.54.228 (talk) 09:25, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  And what of the 'All American' Tamale of North America? 

message: For those of us who have never had one, do you eat the corn husk wrapper (or plaintain leaf or whatever wrapper is used)? 98.16.33.159 (talk) 19:19, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No.  You take the husk/leaf off before you eat it.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.254.162.187 (talk) 18:08, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  wrapper edible? 

message: Checked historical sources and changed the order of the article  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.220.104.168 (talk) 11:29, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  clean up 

message: The article mentions that Cuban tamales are identical in form to the Mexican tamales. Actually other than using corn husks as a wrapper, they are totally different.  Cuban tamales do not use nixtamal masa.  They use fresh corn and sometimes fine ground corn is added as a thickener, they are flavored with sofrito (green peppers, tomatoes garlic, salt cilantro, lard, white pepper, achiote or bijol) most often the protein is pork  although others are not unusual and some will use hot peppers such as "aji guaguau" for an extra kick. To make the tamales, the fresh corn is grated on a Cuban grater called a "guayo."  This produces a watery corn mixture more water is added, then well blended then the mixture is strained.  At this point fine ground corn can be added to thicken the corn mixture if needed.  This is mostly done if the corn is not truly fresh, otherwise it’s not needed.  The "sofrito" is cooked; the pork is cooked in the sofrito and added to the corn mixture.  The wrapping method is also different as you have to create a leak proof pocket using two fresh corn husks, the mixture is ladled in the pocket, and then another husk is used to cover the opening. This is tied with string or more traditional with strips of corn husk. The tamales can be steamed or boiled until they set. The prime reason for Cuban tamales is the fresh corn.  The sofrito and meat are "flavoring components.”  The Tamales are often served with stews, meats or roast pork as a starch component of the meal.  They can also be served as a snack or appetizers and will often be accompanied with cheeses and cold cuts as in the “Tamales Rellenos” served in Victor’s Café in New York.  I think more research needs to be done on this subject. My grandmother taught me how to make Cuban tamales in Cuba, during the early 60's.  She told me her grandmother taught her to make tamales; this pushes the history of Cuban tamales back to the mid 1800's at least.  Since the Cuban Indians grew corn, it would not be inconceivable that they are part of the source of the Cuban tamales.  My grandmother was a great source of traditional Cuban cooking and the primary inspiration why I became a chef later in life.
Magicflute1950 (talk) 00:08, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cuban Tamales Origin 

message: I'm no expert but something is wrong here. The article states that tamales originated in Southern India and that the word is related to the ethnonym Tamil. If so, how did they end up in Mexico and Peru before the Spanish arrived? And what happened to the origin of the word accepted elsewhere, the Nahuatl word tamalli?
MikeG (talk) 03:32, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Southern India, Mexico? 

message: I have moved some old page history that used to be found at the title "Tamale" to Talk:Tamale/Old history. Graham87 14:24, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Old page history 

message: I mean, why put Mexican tamale's at the top, be fair, re-organize each country's version of tamale's by alphabetical order NOT by some subjective heircharcal order of unfair representation. I love tamale's from all over Latin America and as far as I can tell, Mexico is part of Latin America, not like a separate special country above other Latin Americans. Even in food its a hoarding and nationalistic, amazing.
And please, separate each Latin American country up and expand on them with photos - If you list Ecuadorian's version of Tamale's, I want to see:
Ecuador
They have humitas... etc. etc.
Brazil
Tamale's, etc. etc.
Argentina
Che, tamale...
Thanks.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.4.24.10 (talk) 05:05, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Can someone please re-order the Tamale country by country please and divide up Latin American Tamale's. 

message: Pamonha is not a Tamale, even though is similar. It has different origins and tastes different. I've changed the description to reflect this. People should stop trying to force brazilian culture to fit into Spanish America culture - it's a different culture people.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.80.62.37 (talk) 06:33, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brazil 

message: I came across the Guajolota article and noticed that it has no sources or references and is very short. I thought since it is described as a type of tamale, it could be merged into this article. If anyone has more information about Guajolotas, they could add it (with references) to that page so it can stand alone. Or maybe it should just be deleted per WP:Notability. Either way, I am bringing it here for discussion. HotshotCleaner (talk) 23:39, 3 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I found and added a book source for the guajolota article and cleaned it up a bit. It can probably stand on its own, since it is, after all, a tamale sandwich. Geoff Who, me?  17:36, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Guajolota 

message: The Mexican style tamale is called Ducunu in Belize.   — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.249.47.181 (talk) 18:36, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for pointing this out. Dukunu has been added, but more importantly, it was added with a source. The material on Wikipedia should be verifiable.Novangelis (talk) 19:07, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Belize

message: OMG I came across this page accidentally, but I just realized that it is the Western equivalent of the Chinese zongzi. Oh my goodness!! For people who are interested in developing the etymology 129.180.157.162 (talk) 06:52, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow. That is actually pretty interesting information.--MarshalN20 Talk 13:17, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

text: They are not an equivalent since they don't use corn masa. They are just similar in preparation and preservation but the main difference is that Zongzi uses glutenous rice as its binding agent. Ravioli and Wonton are very similar but there's no trace history that one influenced the other but Wonton's history precedes Ravioli by thousands of years.--47.157.27.56 (talk) 19:15, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chinese equivalent 

message: This is stated in the very first part of the section called "Aztecs". I don't see how this could be true and did a little research and can't find any evidence that is it. From what I found, Mexican flamingos are from the Yucatan, the Aztecs lived in the more northern and central parts of Mexico. Also, in reading Bernardino de Sahagún's very detailed and extensive description of tamal fillings, I don't see flamingo. He list seems to be exhaustive by its nature.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andrealawsongray (talk • contribs) 04:15, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  I guess Aztecs ate human flesh filled tamales too.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.87.23.9 (talk) 00:40, 21 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: No, that was the Donner Party back in Oregon--47.157.27.56 (talk) 19:16, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Evidence that Aztecs ate tamales filled with flamingo? 

message: I believe this is more accurate "The name” tamale” or more correctly tamal —  comes from the Nahuatl word tamalli " Andrea Lawson Gray and Adriana Almazan Lahl, Celebraciones Mexicanas: History, Traditions and Recipes, Alta Mira Press, September 2013 /  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andrealawsongray (talk • contribs) 04:23, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where is the evidence for this? "The diversity of native languages in Mesoamerica led to a number of local words for the tamal, many of which remain in use." 

message: Bananas originated in south east Asian 8k-5k bce. They spread westward! Imported to"new" world by Portuguese in 15th and 16th century. So there was definitely Not a Mesoamerican dish using banana leaves as wrapper. How exactly did tamal get to Cuba for its version? Mesoamerican sailors - not likely.
This is pretty poorly sourced in terms of history. Stick to stuff that is verifiable! 2601:14F:8003:DAFC:7010:3243:9438:C620 (talk) 15:23, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: the article doesn't describe the use of banana leaf as being of Mesoamerican origin, it only details the fact that banana leaves are used in various versions of the tamale in certain regions of Latin American and the Caribbean, so it's fair to cite banana leaves as a method of wrapping and cooking and as you stated bananas were introduced by colonial trade.--47.156.184.220 (talk) 08:48, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mesoamerican and Banana leaves? 

message: I am Sarai and I'm going to be editing the tamales page within the next couple days. I've found some good sources and plan to create two new sections; Origins and Etymology. I also plan to be adding/editing the Mexico section particularly the part mentioning zacahuil. From what I know zacahuil are HUGE tamales way bigger than 15 inches (about 3-4 feet although they can be slightly smaller) and are not just from Veracruz but actually the whole Huasteca region of Mexico. Mostly they are used for festivals and holidays, but can also be found sold in portions at the markets on Sundays. I will try to find some good sources on this information to back it up.Iamburdenedwithgloriouspurpose (talk) 18:35, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hello 

message: I edited the info for Belize earlier today and see it has been reverted. 
In Belize the singular tamale is not really used by the english speakers. It is called tamales, whether referring to just one or multiple. Also bollos is only from one region of Belize and as such is a regional variety and even there they differentiate between tamales and bollos. The terms are not used interchangeably by native Belizeans. Some northern districts have their own variety as well. 
In the video source (From the Ch 5 news station in Belize) at 9:01-9:12 and again at 12:05 they talk about what makes bollos different than the one that is simply known as tamales. At 18:30 they show a plate with both a tamales and a bollos on it. <ref>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gdSW0NmKCU<ref>
Sdegill (talk) 04:09, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Belize- The words "bollos" and "tamales" are actually used to refer to two different things, even though bollos may be classified as a form of tamales. 

message: Fiambre Antioqueño in Colombia (not the Guatamalan salad) is a plaintain leaf wrapped meal that uses rice instead of a corn masa dough. From the outside it looks just like a Colombian Tamale Valluna. It seemed to me in Colombia the singular tamal and plural tamale is also corrupted to tamal and tamales.Halconen (talk) 20:30, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fiambre 

message: From what I can tell, tamales are pretty analogous to traditional British puddings. Both are made up of a starchy exterior, steamed or boiled in a kind of wrapping, and filled with either savory or sweet ingredients. Would this similarity be enough to warrant a mention in the article?
TheDwarvenGuy (talk) 05:10, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry for answering late. Only if you have a reliable source would that analogy be worth mentioning in the page, in my opinion. Otherwise it's not much more than an opinion. --Jotamar (talk) 18:57, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

text: Superficial similarities yes, but one did not influence the other. Humans have been making and cooking paste binders with meats, vegetables, and fruits for thousands of years. --47.157.27.56 (talk) 19:18, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tamales analogous to traditional British pudding? 

message: — Assignment last updated by Katherine.Holt (talk) 16:50, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: Modern Latin America