Talk:First-person shooter/Archive 1

message: This is an encyclopedia and as such it should contain encyclopedic knowledge of its subjects. In fact Doom, etc etc. ARE notable, and did introduce important new features, etc etc. and they should be included, in fact EVERY first person shooter should be included. - Advocate 
I would like to note that games are only notable in the eye of the beholder. And, would like to say once again, it is NOT the GAME that is notable, but the engine that runs it. This is but an advert for everyones favorite retro games.
:Make a different list, but in another issue, the lenght of this article is just beyond obscene, one example of how badly written this article is, the "gameplay" section which goes into unnecesary details, such as : "realism", "narrative and structure"(!?), "combat and pacing", "multiplayer" and then it goes into "conventions" (which as full of useful information as the "laser combat" article). This article even has a section for controllers!, its beyond fancruft. More serious articles dont even dream of getting this level of detail. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 201.215.168.240 (talk) 00:00, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Removal of 'notable games'

message: The timeline in the article states that BF1942, released in 2002, paved the way for vehicles in FPS games (been available since 1997 in Tribes, mainstream at least since Halo in 2001) and the MMOFPS (the example cited is WW2 Online, which was released in 2001).  Is there a reason for this incorrect entry or should I go ahead and fix this?
BonzoESC 20:37, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: This is obviously wrong. Driveable vehicles were even hacked into Quake, and Tribes was the influential archetype for extensive use of vehicles in an FPS. You can just fix these kind of errors when you catch them. --Twinxor 21:44, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Reordering

message: I think Corridor 7 at least deserves a mention - it came out at the same time as Doom and had several fascinating features that FPS later copied (shape-shifting monsters, for example.) -- ObscureAuthor 21:30, 27 Aug 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: You can always add the info yourself. :^) —Frecklefoot 16:35, 2 Sep 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: Corridor 7

message: This due to that they both go against the initial description of what a FPS game is. 
"A first-person shooter (FPS) is a computer or video game where the player's on-screen view of the game world simulates that of the character and the gameplay emphasizes shooting."
These games do not emphasize shooting and should therefore not be noted under this category.
:Thank you for your contribution.  While I agree with your removal of Thief, I've played Deus Ex and, while it is not all about shooting, a great deal of it is.  Some of the gameplay involves stealth like Thief does, but is has enough shooting to merit it entry in this category.
:Also, please sign your posts.  You can do this with 3 or 4 tildes (~~~ or ~~~~).  If you're concerned about privacy, get a free account.  It gives you more privacy, not less. :-) — Frecklefoot | Talk 14:56, Aug 30, 2004 (UTC)
::I think Deus Ex should be in the list, it may not be a pure run and shoot action but its a great example of the genre. Parts where you dont shoot evrething you see can be considered in-game charecter development for later shootin and making choices as to who to shoot! surely ;D Deadaline 18:16, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed Deus Ex and Thief from Selected Important Games in FPS Development

message: There are mentions about Halo 2 and Half-Life2, but in slightly round words. I edited the HL2 part for clarity, but can someone who has actually played them make them more precise? --fbjon
:Got it. Halo 2 might need more work though since it was gushing. 
:The bits on the newest games should probably be rewritten to emphasize their historical significance. (For example, it's not good enough to say "advanced AI" — every generation has had its own advanced AI, we must be specific on advancements/achievements and how they affected the genre.) --Mrwojo 01:49, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  The 2000s 

message: :The first flat-polygon (hidden surface) game was the single-player Colony (1987?). 
All the references I can find for a game called "Colony" in 1987 lead to "The Colony" by Mindscape, which appears to have been an RPG, rather than FPS.  
In general, this history seems to have a gaping hole between the 1974 Spasim and the late-1980s offerings on the Atari ST/Amiga and contemporaries, with only Battlezone (1980) in the middle.  Being bold, I've added a reference to the 1982 TRS80/Dragon32 game Phantom Slayer which, gameplay-wise, was undoubtedly an FPS (albeit graphically crude even by comparison with the earlier battlezone)  There must be other examples in this period, surely?Blufive 16:04, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I linked computer gaming mod from modding and left a note on Talk:Modding.   --Mrwojo 01:14, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)

text: On a similar note, the game "Way Out!" also appears to be mentioned here purely because of the Romero interview.  As far as I can tell, it was a relatively obscure labyrinth/maze game released in about 1982/1983 for the Commodore 64 and Apple II - further details are few and far between. Blufive 15:01, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)

text: I think that both lists of games should be removed from the article. The "notable" games should be mentioned in the history (or not at all if no one can explain why they're notable).  The other list is best done through the categories/list articles. --Mrwojo 15:45, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  History: beginnings 

message: Would it be a good idea to add this type of material for particular titles?
My site has all that stuff, but then since it's just me working on it and I'm poor it doesn't have that much exposure going for it atm. Perhaps there is some way to add a wiki extension over there? Perhaps I'll just keep doing my thing and let you all leech as hard as my connex allows. <Advocate>
ps. my site, firstpersonshooters.org is, has been, and always will be totally non-commercial, an encyclopedia for the genre
:The main issue with screenshots is copyright. See Wikipedia:Copyrights.  For the most part, I think a game screenshot would probably be considered |fair use, particularly if it's a publicity shot specifically released for press use by the game's makers.  But I'm not a copyright lawyer, so don't take anything I say on the subject as gospel. Blufive 21:01, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm coming to this discussion late in the day, but I think it'd be a good thing to have more screenshots in the article (especially of the genre-defining games).  I don't think the copyright issue matters for the fair use reasons given above.  Anyway, if you've got some shots of the most famous titles, put them in I reckon.  --Plumbago 14:22, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Screenshots/Media 

message: Should these lists be split off on to a seperate page? Orange Goblin 18:10, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable developers/titles 

message: Do we really need a game conventions section? I edited and "improved" (I hope) this new section, but personaly I don't think it's really necessary.--Vertigo200 18:33, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Game conventions? 

message: I remember that in the early '90s, before FPS games expanded out to large outdoor environments, games like Zero Tolerance and Corporation were commonly referred to as corridor shooters. Should this be mentioned somewhere? I don't know about references, if they're necessary, since I'm not sure whether I've still got any magazines that use the term. --Nick R 16:02, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Corridor shooter 

message: It was previously stated in the article that The Colony was the first game on home computers to use solid 3D graphics. It wasn't, it was preceded by Driller by a good few months. Besides that, The Colony wasn't really a true solid 3D game and wasn't a first-person shooter. Driller was both. I've corrected that. Jamyskis Whisper, Contribs  09:11, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  First "solid" 3D game 

message: 1. doom removed lives, you could re-try as many times as you liked if playing in an "arcade" style
2. doom removed the concept of "score", the previous id incarnations up to and including wolfenstein 3d (and some doom betas) had the player collecting items (usually treasure) to up their score, and a high score table to compliment this. essentially making them the "3d" equivelant of most 2d platform games (e.g. booty: collect treasure, avoid pirates). the only goal of doom was "to kill stuff"
3. it was fast, and i dont mean in terms of FPS. less messing about generally, i.e. give the player a shotgun and let them "run". again, a simple distinction but something that carried through to quake, in fact modern FPS games (e.g. halo, ouch!) have slowed the player and gameplay "rate" down since doom and quake. see: couterstrike gampleay vs quake deathmatch, i prefer the latter. no messing with menus and selection, just fight to the death, every 10 seconds or so
cycloid 15:39, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  more reasons why doom was groundbreaking 

message: It Show how good endless gunning could be?
:While I have no idea what you are trying to say in your statement above, I thought I should add that I agree with at least your heading. In my opinion TimeSplitters should be added to notable games along with maybe Free Radical Design being added to notable developers. If they don't deserve their own bullet, I think maybe mention of them should be included in Rare's profile as this was the team behind Goldeneye 007 and Perfect Dark and after they broke off from Rare went on to create what some would consider "a continuation of the popular FPS style Goldenye 007 induced." -HumanZoom 11:02, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Timesplitters another notable FPS? 

message: What do you call a player who likes to hide in a spot or corner where she is hard to reach, and just waits for somebody to pass by so she can shoot them? Is there a term for this behaviour?--Sonjaaa 15:01, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That would be called "camping", and is usually frowned upon, as it generally makes the game less fun (if everybody camps, then nothing every happens). Also, some cheap camping techniques can be used: camping on a valuable weapon, maybe a rocket launcher, and blasting any brave sould who tries to uproot you. This sort of camping is considered especially cheap, and the mark of a poorly designed level. Waiting around corners or hiding isn't as despised, but it is still disliked. You'll see this a lot in Counter Strike, where it's still frowned upon, but people do it, and whine about it even though they themselves camp. Finally, camping while sniping is perhaps the most acceptable form of camping, but still is considered unsportsmanlike. I hope that answers your question. michaelb 23:54, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks! http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=camping&r=f 
Maybe we need to add a subsection that discusses different player styles or strategies that people can use, along with the terminology used to describe that behaviour.--Sonjaaa 12:37, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

text: That's a very good idea. I'll maybe try to write one if I get time--although I am no expert in FPS's. michaelb Talk to this user 22:24, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This isn't a strategy article. That stuff is best left for forums, strategy articles, and the game itself. bob rulz 08:08, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Camping is a notable enough strategy that it has it's own article at Camping (computer gaming), so I think it's entirely reasonable to mention it somehow. Seeing as it has it's own article I think only a brief mention is warranted, though. — Saxifrage ✎ 07:24, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: terminology

message: Just curious, does anyone ever feel nauseous after playing FPS games for a while? Shawnc 00:56, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Motion sickness 

message: Splinter Cell should be removed as it is a third person steal based game. Gewehr
: Agreed. It is very much not an FPS. michaelb 23:32, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stealth based game examples 

message: I think that someone should add a citation, or at least some details, for the claim that still in 2005 Counter-Strike is the "most popular multiplayer FPS". As it is, it sounds like an advertisement. --fudo 15:29, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: According to http://steampowered.com/status/status.html, Steam has over 2.76 million unique users per month.   The vast majority of that is Counter-Strike. 63.252.64.106 21:54, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Counter-Strike popularity 

message: IMO the Doom clone page should be merged into First-person shooter. The doom clone page seems to contain a lot of original research in as much as it offers no reliable sources for the neologism Doom clone. I don't really know enough to do this merge myself. -- cmh 22:52, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the Doom Clone page stands well enough on it's own, and the information there would seem superfluous here. This page is about the genre and the history thereof, and should focus on notable games, developments in technology, and changes in style that have occurred over the years. The Doom clone page covers a distinct set of information regarding the outmoded term, it's history, and it's usage. Putting that info here would just crowd the page and detract from the overall meaning of the page. Rodeosmurf 23:58, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Same here, this is a really bad idea for a merger as "Doom Clone" typically refers to games using Doom stylization of gameplay, i.e. Non-polygonal 3D, 2d sprites for characters and enemies as well as a first person shooter. Look up "Doom clone" on Google groups, that might provide you with some insight on the history of the term.--Mofomojo 15:45, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mergefrom [[Doom clone]] 

message: While I myself did not put the Halo image that was here before at the top, I see no problem with the wording that was in the caption of the image. Halo is one of the most popular first-person shooters of all time, judging by how well-known it is and its game sales (one of the best-selling console games of all time). If that wording is not appropriate for Wikipedia, then hundreds of thousands of other passages of similar terminology (such as numerous things in here that mention "some of the most influential games in the first-person shooter genre" and other things such as "Doom is among the most revolutionary first-person shooters and defined what the genre is today") must also be removed. And anybody should know that we shouldn't do that. There was absolutely no "fanboyism" or POV in the caption of that Halo image. bob rulz 01:17, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The Doom screenshot is a far better choice for this page, because of the degree to which Doom defined the FPS genre. At any rate, there was no reason for someone to remove the Doom image, which has been on the page for quite some time, and replace it with the Halo image. Additionally, when the Halo image was first added, the caption read "Halo (video game series) series is one of best first person shooter genre.", which, in addition to not being a proper english sentence, is a clear case of fanboyism. Rodeosmurf 21:22, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, I just noticed that the Halo screenshot in question was stolen from worthplaying.com; Granted, it's just a watermarked version of a shot that was probably released for promotion by Bungie/Microsoft, but we shouldn't be putting watermarked images on wikipedia. Rodeosmurf 21:24, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Halo image

message: I think that PREY should be included as a notable game (since it has already been released) becuase of its already mentioned relativly new and ground breaking use of portals (wich are realtime) and gravity tracks (that the player can use to change his point of view by walking on walls ect.). The game is also based on the iD software doom 3 engine (omptimized) wich is mentioned in the article . I dont know if the game is too new to be included .
--201.250.7.207 15:23, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Because it hasn't been released yet, it hasn't had any impact on the history of first-person shooters. As such, it shouldn't be included yet. (Wikipedia is not in the business of predicting the future of things.) — Saxifrage ✎ 16:06, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  While I don't know whether Prey is truly a Notable game or not, it was released in early July. Charlie Wiederhold 03:00, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  PREY as a notable game  

message: I've done a bit of editing of the early part of the article. I felt that there was too much discussion on the precise definition of an FPS for a lead section, so I moved that paragraph down to the Overview section below, alongside the description of the use of first-person views in third-person shooters (which I expanded in that series of edits). However, that section now consists almost entirely of a comparsion with other genres, rather than the "overview" implied by the section name; I considered renaming it to something like "Relationship to other genres", but it didn't seem appropriate to have that as the first section. I'm not really sure of the best way to improve this.
Also, I'm not too keen on the "sub-genres" section, which I've now renamed to become the main part of a new "gameplay" section. I think that rather than using the term "sub-genres", which implies fairly definite distinctions, the extent to which all those variations are blended and evolved should be decribed in a different way. ("Gameplay elements" perhaps?) At the very least, that's the section which I think needs to be focused on now. I'll make a start on it... --Nick RTalk 00:33, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "A start," I said... I've ended up making quite massive changes to the section. But I like to think I've improved it. Right, that's all for now! --Nick RTalk 02:09, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the improvements to this article! It definitely needed it and it's a massive upgrade over the previous version. I think this gives me a good basis to see what I can do to improve it; I couldn't think of any good ways to do it before. bob rulz 03:03, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Improving early sections 

message: Should System Shock 2 really be described as "the first game to successfully implement an interesting story"? I feel this is subjective and should be either reworded or removed. TheButcher 07:04, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There are numerous problems with the "Selected important games in FPS development" list, mainly due to assertions like that - see #Multi Reform section above. No-one's gone ahead and deleted it all yet, but I think that someone should remove the section, transferring the good parts into the main prose. --Nick RTalk 10:11, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: System Shock 2

message: I think that the Call of Duty series (Call of Duty, United Offensive, Call of Duty 2, Call of duty 3) should be added to the notable games as it is probably the most popular WW2 series that is around. Also the "Aim down the sights" feature is fairly unique (some other games have it but usually not for all the weapons). 
Maybe xfire, teamspeak,and vent should be mentioned as well as they are a part of the multiplayer first person shooter.
67.71.55.80 03:37, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  COD series added to notable games? 

message: I had posted a link previously but it got deleted in the grounds that it's "non-notable blog entry; hardly any content there". I had forgot to login so the change was done by my ip (sorry), but I think the point of the link was missed when reverting: yes, there's a blog with some individual analysis there, but it's not the main point on the site, it's just at the home. The point of the site is measuring the size of online FPS communities, as can be noted on the games and mods graphics (graphics being the keyword here). So I'd like to ask permission to add the link to the list, and if needed be, with direct link to the graphic pages then, as that's the real content of the site (and I disagree that there's "hardly any content there"; I think it was just missed by the person who clicked it before removing it). --zeh 13:29, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Asking permission for an external link: online gaming zeitgeist

message: There is a play called First Person Shooter as well, though I cannot find any information about it (except the fact that some of my classmates have been performing it over the past few weeks). Shouldn't there be a disambiguation page or reference to this? (The play is also mentioned in School massacre but links to First Person Shooter. --RazorICE 04:18, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Disambiguation

message: Why is Red Steel in the future section still, when it has been released for a couple of months now? Mattyatty 13:06, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Red Steel 

message: The article states "It is also the first "true" FPS with an in-depth storyline."  Marathon is also listed in the notable games, it came out a year earlier, and had an extremely in-depth storyline.  So unless someone explains what makes Dark Forces any more of a "true" FPS, I'll delete this line because it's false.  After that, it may be worthwhile to reassess whether Dark Forces is notable. Crater Creator 20:48, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Dark Forces is a notable game because it was one of the very first games to expand upon the traditional Doom formula. However, it is true that Marathon came out earlier. That section should be removed. bob rulz 05:12, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dark Forces 

message: The article currently states:
:The first true 3D flat-polygon (hidden surface) first-person shooter was the single-player Driller, in 1987, using the acclaimed Freescape engine.
First of all, I'm not entirely sure what is meant by a "true 3D flat-polygon (hidden surface) first-person shooter".  It seems somewhat ambiguous, but I'm proceding on the assumption that the meaning is "a game where the player can move freely in a 3-dimensional environment (that is rendered using flat polygons with hidden surfaces removed, e.g. via backface culling) and shoots at enemies".  In this case, does not Elite (1984) qualify as an earlier example? JulesH 16:46, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Elite is wire frame, Driller is filled polygons. I believe the 'flat' is referring to flat shading, which was a pretty big technical milestone at the time. I'm also not sure that backface culling is true hidden surface removal - it removes some hidden surfaces, but doesn't handle forward facing polygons occluding each other. Ehheh 16:59, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In that case, I've rephrased to make it clear that the polygons being filled is an important aspect of this.  That paragraph as a whole was difficult to follow, anyway. JulesH 13:11, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "First true 3D flat-polygon (hidden surface)" FPS 

message: I'm removing the following statement:
Notably, however, Pathways Into Darkness had preceeded the release of Wolf3D, and Marathon was released only a few months after Doom and had superior graphics. The Macintosh-only nature of these games limited their popularity.
Part of this is simply wrong. Pathways Into Darkness was released in August 1993, Wolfenstein 3D in May 1992, more than a year earlier. Marathon was indeed released a few months after Doom, and it is notable for making the genre popular on the Mac, but at that time FPS was already going strong on the PC. Besides, Marathon 2 had a Windows version, but found no followership on that platform. — Graf Bobby 02:41, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Bungie games 

message: In reference to Unreal Tournament and Quake 3 Arena: "Both games were widely acclaimed by game-industry critics and laid the basis for their respective franchises to continue onward: the Unreal Tournament series with Unreal Tournament 2003 and later Unreal Tournament 2004, and the Quake series with Quake 4, released October 2005."
This is kind of a frivolous statement, especially the use of "laid the basis for" in the case of Quake.  "The basis" had not yet been laid for UT as a series, but the Quake series was already firmly established as a staple of the genre by this time.  More importantly, Quake 4 took a completely different direction after Quake 3 Arena, with gameplay falling more in line with Quake 1 and 2.  
In short, saying that Quake 3 Arena "laid the basis" for Quake 4 is misleading, in terms of both the longstanding popularity of the series, and Q3A's (relative lack of) influence on future gameplay.
Daeval 22:24, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  UT & Q3A Statement 

message: Should the touch screen count as a control method (e.g. on the DS and PDAs)? I see the PSP mentioned, but this can just as easily be emulated on the GBA.Samx 20:17, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Touch Screen 

message: The Wiimote section reads more like a list of FPS for the Wii, and can be improved. GreaterWikiholic 22:21, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Concerning the Wiimote section 

message: The "modern" FPS screenshot at the top of this article (as of the date tagged to this comment) was made 7 years ago. Maybe something like Gears of War or Battlefield 2142 or something from 06 or 07 should be there. At least one could take out the "modern" tag on it. In fact, I think I'll change it until someone responds. --76.188.148.173 01:02, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have an issue with the picture being of one of the most disappointing games in video game history. Surely there are better games to choose from than Diakatana? bob rulz 04:26, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Modern" FPS 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120307112326/http://www.computerandvideogames.com/28003/features/games-that-changed-the-world-ultima-underworld/ to http://www.computerandvideogames.com/28003/features/games-that-changed-the-world-ultima-underworld/
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on First-person shooter. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/tips/noviceguides/firstpersonshooters.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110713005112/http://uk.games.ign.com/articles/400/400835p1.html to http://uk.games.ign.com/articles/400/400835p1.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://videogames.yahoo.com/feature/controversial-games/530593
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://ve3d.ign.com:80/articles/news/35295/Call-of-Duty-4-First-Impressions
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on First-person shooter. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added  tag to http://uk.gamespot.com/features/6143094/index.html?tag=result%3Btitle%3B2
*Added  tag to http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/action/dukenukem3d/review.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=gssummary&tag=summary%3Bread-review
*Added archive https://archive.is/20120715075641/http://uk.gamespot.com/n64/action/goldeneye007/review.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=gssummary&tag=summary;read-review to http://uk.gamespot.com/n64/action/goldeneye007/review.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=gssummary&tag=summary%3Bread-review
*Added  tag to http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/action/tomclancysrainbowsix/review.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=gssummary&tag=summary%3Bread-review
*Added  tag to http://uk.gamespot.com/gamespot/features/pc/gamecollector/0907/
*Added  tag to http://uk.gamespot.com/features/6171044/index.html?tag=result%3Btitle%3B2
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090429100856/http://uk.gamespot.com/wii/action/residentevilseries/review.html to http://uk.gamespot.com/wii/action/residentevilseries/review.html
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thread_title:  External links modified