Talk:LGBT history in Singapore

message: This article looks at Singapore history from a novel angle, one that has not been allowed to be expressed for many decades in the local media.
Much of the information was obtained via discussions with homosexuals presently in their 50's who are not computer literate.
Groyn88 13:26, 19 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: May 2005

message: *Shoudln't the title of this article be: History of Homosexuality in Singapore or even Gay History of Singapore.  The title is rather awkward. PRueda29 01:53, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: September 2005

message: What is with the link to the non-existant Article regarding the years beyond 2010? This is 2005, and as such I don't see the point of having a link to the future page. Tsubasa 10:21, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link to Future Signapore Gay History 

message: ===Historical records===
There exist no known written records of same-sex love in pre-colonial Singapore and hence by corollary there exist no known oppression of same-sex lovers in pre-colonial Singapore.
We cannot extrapolate that homosexuality existed in precolonial Malays. This is pure speculation.
*Homosexuality has existed in ALL societies since the dawn of human evolution and is seen even in the animal kingdom, as all primatologists who witness Bonobo behaviour can attest to. Malay society is no exception.
Effeminate men are derisively called... is irrelevant to the heading of "Pre-British era". It belongs in your Singapore gay terminology article and should remain there.
With the advent of British colonisation and the imposition of their legal system which criminalised sodomy, there must have been instances where flagrant gay sex citations, otherwise this is merely your speculation. You do realise that every time you edit a wiki, the disclaimer below your edit box says Content must be based on verifiable sources?
*I have met many octogenarians who indulged in homosexual sex in public toilets and parks in their youth. Much of history is passed on orally. Do you expect them to record their activities on paper when such admissions would have invited prosecution or severe censure?
** Not good enough.  Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a peer-reviewed journal or even a popular magazine.  That why the policy states "no original research", which is just what you're falling back on.  The point of the policy is, the reader has to be able to trust that the information comes from a "reliable, published source" (in the words of WP's NOR policy page) -- which is impossible with your original research. If you conducted this research carefully, and you feel it deserves public availability, then get an article published about it.  Wikipedia is simply not the place for that work. If the content depends on this research, then the content needs to be removed. Jmacwiki (talk) 03:50, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Wikipedia is not the playground for PLU advocacy or speculation

message: There exist no known written records of same-sex love in pre-colonial Singapore and hence by corollary there exist no known oppression of same-sex lovers in pre-colonial Singapore.
We cannot extrapolate that homosexuality existed in precolonial Malays. This is pure speculation.
*Homosexuality has existed in ALL societies since the dawn of human evolution and is seen even in the animal kingdom, as all primatologists who witness Bonobo behaviour can attest to. Malay society is no exception.
Effeminate men are derisively called... is irrelevant to the heading of "Pre-British era". It belongs in your Singapore gay terminology article and should remain there.
With the advent of British colonisation and the imposition of their legal system which criminalised sodomy, there must have been instances where flagrant gay sex citations, otherwise this is merely your speculation. You do realise that every time you edit a wiki, the disclaimer below your edit box says Content must be based on verifiable sources?
*I have met many octogenarians who indulged in homosexual sex in public toilets and parks in their youth. Much of history is passed on orally. Do you expect them to record their activities on paper when such admissions would have invited prosecution or severe censure?
** Not good enough.  Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a peer-reviewed journal or even a popular magazine.  That why the policy states "no original research", which is just what you're falling back on.  The point of the policy is, the reader has to be able to trust that the information comes from a "reliable, published source" (in the words of WP's NOR policy page) -- which is impossible with your original research. If you conducted this research carefully, and you feel it deserves public availability, then get an article published about it.  Wikipedia is simply not the place for that work. If the content depends on this research, then the content needs to be removed. Jmacwiki (talk) 03:50, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Historical records

message: Unbeknownst to all save the elite few who possessed a knowledge of Japanese culture either through erudition or travel, homosexuality suddenly became legitimate. Citations. Did the elite few make use of the newfound legitimacy of homosexuality to practise gay sex? Did the occupying army promote or provoke homosexuality in Singapore. Otherwise this is irrelevant.
*This sentence does not need citations. It is a well known fact that homosexual sex is not a criminal offence, nor even regarded as morally offensive in Japan. This is totally relevant because of the 180-degree turn in the legal environment regarding homosexuality during the Japanese occupation.
**This "well known fact" was completely unknown to me.  Admittedly, I am no expert on Japan, nor on the legal & social norms related to homosexuality among the world's past & present cultures, nor on Singapore.  I am, however, probably better educated & better read than most users of Wikipedia.  So that sentence DEFINITELY needs a citation! Jmacwiki (talk) 02:59, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: The Japanese occupation

message: I hope you realise spin is not acceptable in wikipedia? The rest of your article violates NPOV. Akikonomu 15:11, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Spin and NPOV

message: :Image:PassionsOfTheCutSleeve001.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:PassionsOfTheCutSleeve001.jpg

message: Where is the title for this page?  It seems to have lost one along the way, also violates the standard of boldfacing the title at the start of the first paragraph. Jmacwiki (talk) 02:59, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: February 2008

message: Due to various issues noted in the header, I am planning to delete any information in this article without a source in the next month. In other words, if you want it to stay, find a source by then. —K. the Surveyor (talk) 07:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleaning 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified