Talk:Adrian Rogers

message: In the Thelogy section the statement "(he appears to misinterpret 5-point Calvinism as the same as HyperCalvinism)" seems odd.
HybridFusion 09:02, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Notes

message: I'm not sure the word "staunchly" as an adjective to conservative is neutral. Isn't "staunchly" pointing "conservative" to a negative?  
"The denomination has remained staunchly conservative since Rogers' first term as president."  
There's no cite, so I don't know where the sentence came from. Recommend removing staunchly to maintain NPOV. But this is my first visit to this page so I'm not changing it now. I could be wrong anyway. :)
70.185.248.54 (talk) 23:46, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV? 

message: Being unfamiliar with the Wiki protocols, I made revisions to Dr. Rogers' article before registering here.  None of them were in any way inappropriate--yet, rather than just changing things back, I will explain them, and give others the opportunity to restore the previous, appropriate changes, so that there's no back-and-forth between deleting and replacing.
When one confesses lack of information regarding the ideology of an organization, one puts oneself in the position of being unable to judge whether or not statements regarding that organization are, or are not, accurate.  Any research into the history of the SBC, regardless of the viewpoint of the information, will make it clear that the SBC had drifted from its historical conservatism by the 1970s; even the Wiki article on the Convention makes that obvious.  The idea that the truthful statement saying the denomination returned "to its historical roots" is merely a "conservative rhetorical tool" is nonsense--unless it's wrong to have the truth as a tool.  At best, such an accusation is POV in and of itself.
The slavery quote is from a single, unreliable source--an individual who wrote a book and took no pains to make it "NPOV," yet the quote is taken to be not only legitimate, but worthwhile in this article.  It should either be amplified, as it was, or deleted altogether.
If these edits need to be discussed, then let's discuss them.  Otherwise, I will reinstate the changes I made previously, changes that make the article more accurate and not pejorative. Mike Bratton
*In response: Any research into the history of the SBC, regardless of the viewpoint of the information, will make it clear that the SBC had drifted from its historical conservatism by the 1970s; even the Wiki article on the Convention makes that obvious.  Perhaps you are correct.  However, the phrase is a common conservative rhetorical tool (as I say above, I'm not passing judgment on whether you have used it as such).  Is the current phrasing about Dr. Rogers' presidency precipitating a shift to the right inaccurate?  Then why, may I ask, would you prefer to describe the shift in the way you have described if the most simple, universally understandable explanation is "rightward shift"?  I stand by my statements regarding this in the above section. 
*The slavery quote is from a single, unreliable source--an individual who wrote a book and took no pains to make it "NPOV," yet the quote is taken to be not only legitimate, but worthwhile in this article.  It should either be amplified, as it was, or deleted altogether.  I think consensus has been reached on this issue, and it has been explained well enough in the above sections of this page (it involves adding a bit to that section, which hasn't been done yet).  Also, regardless of whether that particular cited source is reliable, at least one editor initially attempting to remove the quote admitted that the quote was accurate (though taken out of context). - Jersyko talk 21:15, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *Rather than merely rehash my responses to what you're saying here, I'll simply refer to my prior comments on essentially the same subjects.  I'll also refer to Dozenist's comments in the same section regarding the "return to historical roots" language and adopt his position as my own. - Jersyko talk 17:34, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  More on recent changes 

message: This is a random thought, and does not belong in the article, but Dr. Rogers had the strongest hand-shake grip of any man ever.  If you weren't on guard, he'd crush your hand.  Just thought I'd throw that out there.  Even though I disagreed with most of his views, I can't deny he was a great guy.  I'm sure he'll be missed.  - orioneight (talk) 03:54, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Random 

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:AdrianRogersPhoto.jpg

message: If there are sources which exist and are citeable which contradict the position taken in the pro slavery quote, an addition to the article would be appropriate stating that Rogers also preached on the ills of slavery.  It doesn't change the fact, however, that a source exists which verifies the pro slavery quote, so it doesn't support deletion of the pro slavery quote unless the source is somehow unreliable. Interwebs (talk) 17:51, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: You completely ignored the substance of my comment above and deleted the relevant passage, however. Interwebs (talk) 12:17, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

text: You're misreading my comment.  Two sources exist which support the inclusion of the pro-slavery quote.  Unless a reliable source exists which disputes the two sources directly, then the quote should remain.  I've added a sentence noting that Rogers allegedly took a contrary position in a sermon (I cannot listen to the sermon, so I cannot confirm). Interwebs (talk) 15:02, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

text: I haven't listened to the sermon because I do not have access to a method to playback audio at this exact moment.  I deleted the "supports of Rogers" portion of the sentence to address your concerns.  Regarding #3 in your comment, I would point to WP:PRIMARY.  Primary sources (e.g., a Rogers sermon) may be used, but not in an interpretive sense (secondary reliable sources are required for that).  Thus, we can't use the Rogers sermon to "prove" that Rogers never made the comments about slavery or that he never held the views reported by secondary sources.  We CAN use it to prove that Rogers made the statement that the Emancipation Proclamation was a good thing, which we do by adding a sentence after the other, cited material.  Even without referencing Wikipedia policy, does it not make sense that Rogers' view of slavery might have changed over time, and that he actually took both positions supported by the sources?  If so, we include both, as the article currently states.  As it stands, there are two sources which support inclusion of the quote.  I've seen no evidence presented that the sources are unreliable. Interwebs (talk) 16:23, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

text: I have no substantial objection to your addition.  I take you at your word regarding the sermon, but I will not be able to listen to it until later today.  I will add a proper reference for it then. Interwebs (talk) 19:02, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Slavery redux 

message: The article claimed that Rogers, "when he was no longer president" of the SBC, "significantly revised" the Baptist Faith and Message.  The statement implied that he did so inappropriately and singlehandedly.  The truth is, he was chairman of the committee that drew up a new Baptist Faith and Message.  He was appointed by Dr. Paige Patterson (who was SBC president at the time), and his appointment was approved by the convention.
The article also claimed that Rogers is the only man to serve three terms as president of the SBC.  Obviously the person who added this statement is quite ignorant of SBC history.  Many of the early SBC presidents served several consecutive terms.  Sometime in the mid-20th century the SBC adopted a new bylaw that prevented the president from serving more than two consecutive terms.97.73.64.169 (talk) 16:44, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article contained some major inaccuracies.... 

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