Talk:Flute/Archive 1

message: I've learned flute for three years, and I am thinking to buy another flute (currently I'm playing the Gemeinhardt flute).  Sankyo, Muramatsu, Powell are all famous in manufacturing flute.  Are the former two brands more suitable for Asians?  Needless to say, Powell is perfect (in terms of quality & money :-D)!
Thanks.--144.214.54.86 09:06, 3 Feb 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure, I even have some authoritative refs to help. To avoid getting bogged down, use this page to sketch an outline. Keep in mind that the modern western concert flute is by far the most familiar to English-speaking readers, so it will tend to get the most content no matter what. Also check out the "competition" - print encyclopedias - take note of how they organize. Stan 03:57, 29 Apr 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  How to Choose a Flute 

message: I eliminated the list of famous flautists since it's redundant with the list at flautist and there's no sense maintaining slightly different lists in both articles. The list took up probably half the vertical space on the page and is much more appropriate at flautist than here. I also changed the flutist link to flautist since it was a redirect, and removed the alternate spelling since it's discussed at the link. I'm planning on eventually adding discussion of simple system flutes including the Baroque flute and Irish flute, but I have to think through the taxonomy first. Folks, please remember to sign your comments (use the signature button on the toolbar to insert a signature code). --Craig Stuntz 15:49, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article organization 

message: I don't agree with the statement that changing the metal of the flute makes no impact on the sound. I haven't got any specific references but the piece 'Density 21.5' was written for a platinum flute and tried to make full use of the bright, harsh tone that platinum gave. The sound is very different to a standard flute. Can anyone find a good ref for this? Rocket71048576 19:51, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nancy Toff starts her section on materials with "Almost nothing can start an argument among flutists faster than a discussion of the relative merits of various materials". She also mentions participating in a blind trial of gold vs silver, where experts listening could not reliably tell which was being played. The whole issue is worth a section, either here, if written to apply to all flutes, or at Western concert flute if addressing the specifics of that instrument. Stan 15:53, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Got a published source for that? Stan 18:23, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

text: The article should then say "Toff says this, Debost says that" - WP:NPOV says that it's not our place to promote one side of the debate over the other, we just report that there is a debate and who says what. What manufacturers do is worth nothing, but not a compelling argument either way; they just sell what customers ask for, irrespective of the reason. Stan 20:31, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

text: There's a right way to phrase this, let me give it a try. I'd have to buy Debost's book to reference it in detail, although I was able to look at a sample at Amazon. (I didn't find him very convincing, not going any deeper than the "everybody knows" level.) From the scientific point of view, it would be hard to change the instrument being played without the player knowing about it, so you have a problem with Subject-expectancy effect, not to mention if the instruments being tested are all handmade, you have many individual variations aside from the metal being used. Stan 15:52, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Flute Metals

message: I think that the graphic "An illustration of a Western concert flute" which appears at the top of the article is unfortunately chosen.  At this position in the article, surely we should show an example of a standard Western concert flute.  The chosen graphic shows what appears to be a wooden instrument with antique keywork.  We should, I think, show a plain vanilla metal Boehm instrument, the dominant western flute.  I am not arguing that wooden Boehm flutes do not exist; indeed, their use is increasing after 100 or more years of decrease.  But they are rare.  This illustration would give an unknowledgable reader a wrong impression of what the vast majority of western concern flutes look like. Rcneville 05:05, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Opening Illustration

message: Hi, I understand that "flute" has a meaning in machine engineering. I believe it means the grooves in the side of a drill bit or endmill.  Here is a use, from End_mill
Endmills are used in milling applications such as profile milling, tracer milling, face milling, and the like. Depending on the material being milled, different tool types and geometry may be used. For instance, when milling a material like aluminum, it may be adventageous to use a tool with a very shallow flute depth, and a pre-dulled (but polished) cutting edge.
Yes, the word 'flute' does have another definition. It's actually called fluting. Grooves down the side of a drill bit are called 'flutes', as you said. Also, in Roman architecture especially, the grooves going down a column are called flutes. Also 'flute' can mean a kind of wine glass. I think the latter may appear in an article eslwhere, however there should be an article on 'fluting' as discussed above. Anyone willing to work on that? --Caleb Mitchum 19:12, 9 September 2006
There is actually a current usage in which the engineering meaning is also at work in the flute making world.  London flute maker Robert Bigio makes what he calls 'fluted' headjoints.  These are wooden headjoints which have numerous 'flutes' or narrow grooves handcarved the length of the headjoint.  The object, I believe, is to reduce the mass of the headjoint and perhaps also for visual effect. Rcneville 04:43, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  flute also has a meaning in machine engineering 

message: The section on the western concert flute should be shortened and the content merged with the article on western concert flute. Generally, this article should gibe a general definition, overview of different flute types and links to special articles on special instruments. It is on the right way (better in this respect than some other articles on musical instruments) but can be improved. Nannus 17:43, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, though I think it's an organization issue rather than a POV issue. --Craig Stuntz 17:48, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, the problem of this article (and others) can be solved by reorganizing it. But in my oppinion, it is a NPOV-problem. The problem is in the eurocentric selection of material. A counterexample to this is the very balanced article on writing systems. Nannus 18:59, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV 

message: I just removed two irrelevant replies from this discussion, they offered nothing of substance to the discussion. Rookie Rover 21:09, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Irrelevant Replies Removed 

message: Who wrote this article (introduction)? They can't spell 'pitch' and the grammar is pretty bad. It seems like it was written by an amateur flautist, definitely not a professional. Someone please, rewrite the beginning. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.243.165.119 (talk) 05:08, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Author?? 

message: I was very disappointed to find that the more modern techniques of flute playing had been removed from this site, as I found them to be most insightful into the 20th Century styles of playing being currently pioneered by the newer composers. I, myself, have participated in a workshop where creating a slide-whistle effect was used in a modern piece, and was glad to read about this effective technique being used widely, especially among the younger players, who afterall are the future of music. I find it disgraceful that this generation of flautists are being ignored as they obviously have some very innovative ideas, and when they wish to share them with other talented musicians, are shunned into silence. I will not be using this website again. Shame on you all.
:Cite some sources, and it can come back - otherwise no way to tell what is real, and what is some lamer's idea of a joke. Stan 23:08, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flute History 

message: So, while the article purports to be a an overview of flutes worldwide, the infobox is "western concert flute". If the infoboxes are now the in-thing, then we need to strip out anything that is not true of all types of flutes. Stan 23:29, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox 

message: A "bright" pitch is one that is purer with less harmonics - ie closer to a clear tone sine wave. The reason a flute sound different to a violin whilst playing a note of the same pitch is that each instrument adds its own overtones. If someone else has time to turn this into a readable explaination in the article I would appreciate it.  Sophia 20:36, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please elaborate as I'm not an expert but my understanding was that brass instruments produce brighter sounds because there were less complex harmonics. I could be totally wrong on this as I guess I'm approaching it from a physic point of view (a tube being a more simple resonator than say a violin sound box). Actually this is begining to sound like OR so I'll check some sources and post later :o)  Sophia 10:22, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep I take it all back - it seems the brightness is caused by boosting the upper harmonics of an instrument (something a tube will do easier than a sound box - hence my confusion). A sawtooth wave would be very bright which is a very complex combination of sine waves. These make interesting reading  but I don't think I dare add to the article in case I still don't understand it properly!!  Sophia 10:54, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: At the minute, it isn't a very good article, and it is packed with original research. You can only improve it by adding verifiable material. I'm sure that you understand it well enough, and I think that you should go ahead and edit! Pathless 16:09, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "Bright"

message: The paragraphs directly under this heading make sense in this context, but then The Western concert flutes/The Indian Bamboo Flute/Dvoyanka (Double Flute)/Pinkillo are arbitrary examples of flutes, not categories. 67.131.237.93 21:14, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Categories? 

message: Overwhelming common usage is to call the modern instrument "flute". "Flute Family" seems more appropriate to capture the range of flute-like instruments, which have their own distinguishing names. "Flute history" could be a separate article or contained within "Flute". As mentioned in the talk page elsewhere, there is good interest in capturing modern innovations in flute-playing of the modern instrument, which some editor deleted - deletion of useful content is surely poor form.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blouis79 (talk • contribs) 21:22, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you're thinking of the woodwind or Western concert flute families.  Flute Family would have to be renamed Flute family anyways.  --Merovingian (T, C) 13:31, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Requested move

message: As the IMSLP is temporarily down, I am adding the missing info here. When it goes back up, it should be put back into the article:
*Access to IMSLP 12 collections of 1000 free downloadable flute/recorder solos, with historical notes
♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 18:16, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  IMSLP link 

message: I am a professional flute player, and I saw that someone had written that she/he thinks that changing the metal on the flute has an no imapct on the sound. However, I think that it does. I think that the following also have an impact on the sound:
- The metal
- The longness/shortness
- The thinckness of the metal
- The amount of oxygen in and around the flute
- The shortness/quickness of breaths
- The deepness/highness voice that the flautist has.
Please take these into consideration
If you agree, please say so, if not, please say so and WHY. That is no good to have an answer you don't have an explanation for. 
----
Thank you for reading this information. 
Name          	Age                     	Comment
YOUR NAME HERE	YOUR AGE HERE [OPTIONAL]	YOUR COMMENT HERE
Please can you copy this into your comment and fill it in. This way I know how to address you.
Thank you:
[Do not wish to be named]  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.77.139.147 (talk) 17:22, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Changing sound impact 

message: I've been searching the web on several ocasions for it. It's frustrating that I can't find it. I know the sound, but whatever I input for internet search I end up with something else. What is that flute? Can any of you answer please? I prety much described it in the title here -- strange ringing flute probably native American. I've heard it on several occasions: once in some show on TV when they were showing some desert in US, and also I've heard it being used once somwhere in Rammstein's song "Amerika" ('Rammstein - Amerika' ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w9EksAo5hY ) - that's the only reliable source I can point to you in order for you to dechyper this mystery). So -- flute people -- what do you say?
:Yeah, what's that flute? Can anyone answer?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.189.215.114 (talk) 22:01, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It's used in that Rammstein song at 1:51 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w9EksAo5hY . Obviously it's some wind-blown instrument but I don't know what it is - can someone help here?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.101.143.68 (talk) 15:33, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Are they ignoring it or they really don't have a ****ing clue? Maybe it is not a flute...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.101.143.68 (talk) 21:32, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:               +++ ANSWER THIS, ANYONE +++  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.101.143.68 (talk) 21:46, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Strange ringing flute probably native American 

message: I came here to find out exactly what an electric flute is and how it works. I've heard of it, but I don't have any idea what it looks like or sounds like. If anyone has a source, can they add it in? Briefplan (talk) 18:10, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Not sure it's what you're looking for, but you might find some useful information in the Wind Controller FAQ. /Ninly (talk) 19:16, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Or try looking at the article wind controller if that external link is broken. Willi Gers07 (talk) 19:04, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Electric flute 

message: Could this article maybe get protected from anonymous edits??
Some fool comes and vandalises it on a regular basis - seems a shame for others to be spending their time reverting fatuous comments and idiot changes all the time. --Ndaisley (talk) 06:25, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The average response time to vandalism seems to be almost two hours. Not good at all. Especially given how my edits are reverted the next minute, even when I cite a thousand sources relevant to the topic. Perhaps if I edited this article I could cause it to get protected. It would be out of prejudice towards me, but the result would be the same: it would get protected from that vandal. Willi Gers07 (talk) 19:03, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protection from Anonymous Edits 

message: Would it be possible to add a sound sample? Bartholomewklick (talk) 21:31, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sound sample? 

message: I'm an active flutemaker and ex sound laboratory person. If anyone cares to read the most up to date accounts of flute acoustics they will find that Bernoulli is out of date and wrong in connection with embouchure hole physics. Read Fletcher and Rossing's 'The Physics of Musical Instruments', for example. A.H. Benade's book 'The Physics of Musical Instruments' also provides much verifiable insight. The difference is that more modern accounts address the interaction of air column and embouchure hole, the article seems to promote the false idea that random disturbances in the air jet from the player's lips somehow sustain the oscillation of the air column. So I think it would be more correct to say that disturbances in the air column interact with the player's air jet to co-operate in a sustained oscillation, that is, a tone.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Regrif (talk • contribs) 09:30, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  acoustics 

message: WHEN I STARTED IN INTREST  OF THE FLUTE I JUST THOUGHT THERE WERE ONLY ONE TYPE OF A FLUTE BUT  NOW WHEN I AM A LITTEL BIT  IN IT  I RELISE THAT THERE IS MORE TYPES OF FLUTES LIKE THE C FLUTE BASSE FLUTE AND ALL THE OTHER FLUTES.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.204.30.41 (talk) 21:31, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  the diffrent types of flutes  

message: Can Ocarina be considered a flute? I think there must be at least a reference to ocarina. I saw an Ocarina and i didn't know that it was called "ocarina". I tried to find it in this article initially. i went to other online sources and fond the name and then i had to search for article on Ocarina. I have now added it in 'see also' section for people like me. I still think this needs to be mentioned in the article. --B. Srinivasa Sasidhar 00:56, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Ocarina is not a flute?