Talk:Art car

message: "exteriors and interiors of factory-made automobiles are transformed into expressions of individual ideas, values, beliefs and dreams.  the cars range from imaginatively painted vehicles to extravagant fantasies whose original bodies are concealed beneath newly sculptured shells"
(from Petersen Automotive Museum's Spring 2003 Los Angeles, California exhibit Wild Wheels: Art for the Road Gallery Guide)  (curated by Harrod Blank)
The above is fair usage material from atwo-page ephemeral publication containing no copyright notice and distributed to attendees of the exhibition.
Pedant 00:25, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments

message: I've seen pictures of some pretty elaborately decorated taxis in South America and the Phillipines... anyone want to add something from there?  Pedant 02:09, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Taxicabs 

message: Robert "Rockette Bob" Van Keuren III, Philo Northrup, Rev. Charles Linville, Rebecca Caldwell, Tom Kennedy, Dennis Woodruff, Leonard Knight
I removed an entry that was clearly by someone trying to showcase their personal creation (they didn't even bother to alphebetize it - just stuck it up top). We don't have room to list every artcar in existance (there are hundreds if not thousands) and I think the cars section should be restricted to well-known artcars that either have a long history in the community, have creators with a long history, or have been featured prominently in the news or public displays. I say this as someone who owns an artcar and chooses not to list it here out of respect. Plymouths 01:29, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Please see WP:N, WP:NOT and WP:V for relevant criteria. In brief, the first guideline says that content must be notable (the subject of multiple non-trivial published works), the second policy says that Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information, and the third that new material should cite a reliable source, or it may be challenged or removed by any editor. Your actions are aligned with these guidelines and  policies, in my opinion. Walter Siegmund (talk) 06:51, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  other art cars and artists 

message: The BMW art cars are always what I've associated with the term. They don't really fit the definition in this page, though, since they're commissioned by BMW and done by professional artists (very famous ones at that). Any ideas on how to address them?
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My thought is that the best method is to mention them here, but create a separate page in which to discuss them further. That would give the space to properly note the various cars, artists, etc. without cluttering up this page excessively.
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The BMW cars are of importance as they reflect one aspect of the spectrum- very famous professional artists have used art cars as a medium. Ideally the article should have illustrations from the entire spectrum for example- 1. truly visionary artcars (guys in the desert-religious folk) 2.Ordinary folk who have never thought of exhibiting the pre event artcar culture there are many of these.(my sticker car was pre event culture I had never been to or seen an event or an artcar ever...) 3.Cars designed at events (school project cars some very famous ones from houston) 4.Cars designed specifically to be exhibited never or rarely driven (aero car for example) 5. Cars desined by professional artists (Flutter Bug) 6. Cars desinged to sell things and for marketing (founding fathers car is designed to market a book by Dr. Bob Heronimous in Baltimore last year, A famous truck artcar was designed to sell artistic clocks in Baltimroe and others are designed to be sets to display and sell folk art.) Other cars are just seen on the streets and driver owners are told : he our car is art. So when the article is "art car" it should be inclusive and representative of the entire art car world. Complex but fun! I think this would aid the reader who wants to get a grasp of what the potentials are and to understand all which now fits under the heading "art car" in the world. This has evovled quite a bit over the past 50 years. Have fun! Conrad Jay Blade 14:32, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  BMW art cars? 

message: I'm not sure about the tone of this article.  It feels a bit value-laden and rambling -- particularly
in slangy journalistic phrases such as 
"'Cartistry' truly attained unstoppable momentum as a social and artistic movement in the 1990s"
I'm not sure it would be improved by being made more formal, but I do get the feeling that it needs to be edited.  It also appears to contradict itself in a few minor but irritating ways.
Any objections? Theoh 11:02, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. When I found it it was a real mess (lots of vanity entries and irrelevant garbage). I've been slowly working on bringing it back to some form of sanity but I wouldn't mind help. Incidentally I've been involved in the artcar community for about 7 years and I've never heard the terms "cartists" or "cartistry" used, nor have I seen it in any other article on the topic. Plymouths 15:05, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Ok first of all there should not be an "overview" section below the "contents" section - the section above "contents" is supposed to be the overview! And there's a LOT of overlap in what's said there, in the "artistic styles" section and in the "history" section (which isn't really history in the standard sense). Also OMG REFERENCES!! I don't know why the "articles without references" tag went away - it still doesn't have references. A lot of the links at the bottom could be turned into a references section but so far they're not. Plymouths 15:41, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tone? 

message: At this time the article clearly favors the cars mentioned by only one author Harrod Blank. These are well known cars however the article is not entitled "well known art cars" it is Art Cars. There are other ways art cars can become well known for example: The cable television program Monster Garage featured all of my cars in an entire episode. Therefore the are "well known" the same is true of books. Three of my cars are in books (one is in one of Harrod's Books) that makes them well known. Another problem in this area is that the cars featured seem to be all from the West Coast. An important aspect of the recent development of the art car world (and it is not a movement which is a bit more formal) is that there are now many cars on the east coast. Something my cars illustrate. Another important aspect of the artcar world is that most of the art cars on the road today are ordinary i.e. not famous. Additionally most major festivals will accept any entry providing it is an art car. Houston prides itself on being "everyones artcar parade" Artscape in Baltimore also accepts every entry except last year when it did not accept gas powered vehicles. Therefore the article should recognize that the art car world is very much a world for every one and every car. The "important ones" are in the minority and not reflective of the entire artcar world. As this is an evolving and flexible medium I suggest that the article asks that photos of artcars be submitted and that they be inserted from time to time in rotation. There can be a section on "very well known artcars" and perhaps on "prize winners" but there should be a few of ordinary cars as well as truly visionary works which are out of the mainstream and as yet not recognized.....just a thought. I would think that if you don't wish to mention all of my cars....with the exception of the soul car are well known.....you should include the Handy car (Epicentral Shrine of the Helping Hand Vehicular) which has appeared on national television,local television features,local and national media, a book, voice of America television, news articles, and won first prize at houston in the daily driver category. You will find information and photos which you can use at: http://www.geocities.com/artcars/handyweb.html
It is a difficult job but an article on Art Cars should reflect the wide range of Art Cars out there and not just famous ones. The reader should get a sense that the artcar world reflects a spectrum of purposes, interests and orientations which is open to all who create art cars. I appreciate your dedication to this article keep up the good work!   Conrad Jay Blade 14:16, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There are SEVERAL HUNDRED artcars that are prizewinners. We don't have room for all of them. Personally I'd like to entirely get rid of the "notable art cars" section - it junks up the article. When I first found this article it was a collection of vanity links - people who created wikipedia entries for the sole purpose of adding their cars to the list. Which is approximately what you did. And even if some of your cars are notable you don't get YOUR OWN SPECIAL SECTION. See Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not Also, wikipedia discourages autobiography. Plymouths 14:38, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good Point. This is one of the new aspects of the growing artcar world. When first there were a few then a book full then several books filled.....now thousands....I think the main point is to characterize the entire artcar world by citing an example of each major category. But simply citing lack of signifcance for removing is not appropriate as the cars added were significant. My position is that one car per category should be the limit. So why not remove all of them. We can all build some sort of case for significance. Also reference to individuals is also not really on topic. There are too many outstanding individuals these days too. As for the use of Harrod well I would say ok but only if the car is famous in three references in addition to Harrod's work. His is one view. Rotating images and citations may also be helpful in solving this. I think one thing that this article can do is help define the major categories of art car. They never will be exact or hard but they are a good way to describe a spectrum. Categrories should be found for:
1. Cartists: totally independent not formal (have to be told they are cartists)The most formal of Visionary artists.(out in the desert etc.... 
2. Cartists that enter events that formalize their inclusion
3. Cartists that do not drive daily (artworks that are only exhibited that is never drove daily)
4. Cartists that design and build cars for purposes other than exhibition that is self marketing, to make money, to pay travel bils for vacations, to market products, to rent to movie makers.
5. Cartists who create a car as an event or educational mission
Actually maybe categories is not good maybe modes.....is better as cars can move from one to another.
Also- getting away from hero worship etc....cars should be described as reflections of techniques- glued on stuff, foam insulation, temporary, painted, interactive, totally transformed (say into a hippo)mosaic....(this lets the article have many examples of car images without being mini biographies of individuals)
In addition to technology and techniques purpose of the car- the mission statement
-artistic:aesthetic
-political or point of view
-religious shrine
-stage
-humor
-Project-group work (assignment)
-fantasy
The categories are not complete but as an idea of what can be done....
One wa of handling indivdual artists is to link to their web page or transfer the information from this article to other articals about specific individuals....Probably a good idea as there are famous cartists just like people in other fields. This article could be linked to them....Harrod for example should have his own article.....that way information will be not lost and can be linked in.
A wonder! 
Conrad Jay Blade 15:18, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

text: I did actually intend to make the "construction and decoration" techniques more full of examples, but I need more public domain pictures. I looked through my recent event pictures and didn't find any good ones. Plymouths 15:45, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: don't know about quality but I have probably too many on line feel free just cite source in small print etc...if convenient..... this is a start...http://www.geocities.com/artcars/hutmanartcars.html
-for temporary see magnet truck, for glued on handy, painted-someday the frogs will inherit the earth aka party car....all have brass instruments/music some have interactive dimension.....whatever...I would also try the orange show as they have photos of allmost all the participants I think I signed a waver so permission should be able to be obtained from the orange show foundation itself...doesnt hurt to ask... Conrad Jay Blade 17:37, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Narrow View

message: The term Cartist has been used in the Art Car World for at least 20 years when it was used by Dave the first curator of the artscape artcar show to describe the artists. I have been doing artcars for  20 years now and I heard the word used before artscape. I have heard the term used at the Houston art car parade and festival all four times I attended. It is in fact a favorite term of several friends so I beleive it is in common usage. Again....diverse sources would help this article. Conrad Jay Blade 14:24, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please provide at least two links to actual sources or it doesn't count as notable (see WP:notability). Plymouths 14:33, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, fine, so that merits a mention. It certainly does NOT merit referring to artists as "cartists" throughout the entire article. I will clean that up. Plymouths 15:27, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: sounds good to me variety is always good-Conrad Jay Blade 20:29, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The Term Cartist

message: Although this has not been covered - in the past few years, there is a movement where GM B-bodies (1971-96) are customized with lifted suspensions and wild paint jobs.  One who reads RIDES Magazine would notice that some of the cars (especially the Donks on the East Coast) have custom paint jobs much like the lowriders.
:This would be good for addition or connection to the Lowrider article, but doesn't really connect directly to this article.Improbcat 19:15, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Donk (automobile)|Donks]] 

message: External links- what are we doing with links to individuals and indivdual artists in this section. Then there is the wallpaper comercial site....IMHO there should be no links to individuals or collections of cars that relate to one individual-that would be promotion.Cbladey 14:22, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I already told you - I haven't had a chance to look through all the links and remove all the inappropriate ones. the walpaper site got added like LAST NIGHT and I just took it back out. people spam wikipedia frequently. it's a big job to stay on top of it. I can't be logged in 24-7 watching for spam so sometimes it gets through. Also, please use section headers - you put your comments under "donks" but they had nothing to do with donks. Plymouths 18:06, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: External Links

message: fix the capitalization- I found two- Christmas and one of the captions does not begin in a cap Cbladey 14:22, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed Changes Feb 3/07

message: I shall keep an eye out for the wallpaper and other spam. I just thought I would mention it before I removed it. Could we come up with a guideline....ie. no personal pages of images,or sites about one artist and then adverts? (If a link to a web page is needed because an individual comes up in the article text it is best to use the   tags around the source or web page address and then put a references section in where the footnote will magicly appear ===References===
 I will do one as an example-if you dont like it delete....Cbladey 13:29, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That is in fact exactly what I had in mind for references - just that a lot of references still need to be found, especially the the history section (which I did not write so have no idea where the info came from). I fixed the reference to come after the quote though, rather than after the name "burning man" Plymouths 16:02, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed Help Feb 4/07

message: Earlier today someone added a link to Ant Farm (group) who, according to their wiki created several of the "cadillac ranch" sculptures. Those are fascinating sculptures involving cars but they are not "art cars" in the sense of being driveable road-worthy works of art. I would classify them as "car art" instead. Does anyone have any reasonable arguments as to why that should be included in the article? And even if it is I don't believe it merits being in the introduction.Plymouths 06:53, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Noone has justified it to me so I'm removing it.Plymouths 09:18, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Ant Farm

message: Is there a consensus on how the term "art car" should be capitalized and whether it is one or two words?. Looking at the introduction, I see "art car" "artcar" and "Art Car" (there is also "Art car" but that seems to only come up when the phrase "art car" starts a sentence). I was going to standardize the capitalization, but I thought I should check to see what is preferred. It looks like "art car" is the most used version but the others appear throughout the article. --Dragonvpm 07:42, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I attempted to go through and put all of them in lowercase but I apparently missed some. No, it's not a proper noun. It should not be capitalized.Plymouths 09:19, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I just went through and standardized them all to "art car" (except where they start sentences, of course).  Hornbreaker 00:52, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Capitalization

message: I changed "usually" to "often" on that one.  This is true in some circles, and true in the cars that Harrod Blank has showcased, because that was one of his requirements.  But there are a lot of art cars painted by artists for other people to drive.  One artist in San Francisco, for example, painted three or four cars with stencils  at an event in San Francisco in 1991 called "Carmanic Convergence"  Those cars were seen around San Francisco for years.  Harrod Blank was there shooting for his film, but wasn't interested in anyone not painting their own car as their own self expressive ride.  This article definitely needs to be expanded beyond the narrow view of "cartist" owner/drivers.  I'm also confused by the inclusion of the commercial Oscar Meyer mobile, but not of custom cars in this article.Cleshne (talk) 09:09, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: art cars only done by owner/drivers

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