Talk:Plan Espiritual de Aztlán

message: Hello wikipedia community, I am a student in a wiki education course and would like to edit this article. My edits will be minor and I will derive my edits from 'Aztlán: Essays on the Chicano Homeland' which is edited by Rudolfo Anaya, Francisco A. Lomelí, Enrique R. Lamadrid. This collection was recently edited in 2017 so I believe it is a reliable source. I want to explain a little bit about the myth of Aztlán and why that is significant to this article. I think the context could be helpful if the reader was just reading this article only. If any of you have suggestions or grievances I would be glad to hear them! S4mon (talk) 04:56, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: [Untitled]

message: Since the purported "racism" of the document is a matter of dispute, I have removed the article from the "Racism" category in the interest of NPOV. The article was categorized by a user named Lokifer with no User page who did not defend the categorization.  The issue of perceived separatism within the Mexican American community is a contentious one, especially in the debate revolving around illegal immigration.  Indeed, the article's focus on the "controversial statements" leads me áto suspect that this article was written by an anti-immigration activist, or at least from the perspective of one.  If the article ought to be re-categorized under racism, I'd like to see some justification for it.--Rockero 17:09, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Category

message: 1 - the whole document should probably go into the wiki-commons, being short and non-copyrighted.  2 - the document is actually called El Plan de Aztlán, and the preamble ("In the spirit..." until the "Program" heading) is called El Plan Espiritual de Aztlán.  Probably should be redirected.  3 - Why is there no mention of the author, Alurista? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.12.75.117 (talk • contribs) .
:I have been wanting to tackle this for a rewrite for quite some time.  It appears to be written from the starting point of recent MEChA controversies, rather than as an outgrowth of the Chicano Youth Conference that, in many ways, initiated the Chicano Movement.  It is part of one of Wikipedia's systematic problems: articles written by people who are not experts and/or don't have encyclopedic knowledge on a topic.  Most of the literature refers to the plan by its spiritual title, but I agree that whatever title it had in the original should be preferred, with redirects, but if they are actually two different parts of the same text, that should be explained in the article.  As for Alurista as author, my best guess is that it is primarily due to his not having a Wikipedia article yet-- but it's about time the Poet laureate of Aztlan did.  Want to give this article's rewrite a shot?--Rockero 01:22, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Mistitle, No mention of author

message: "Por La Raza todo. Fuera de La Raza nada" is often translated by the critics as "Everything for the Race, nothing for [those who are] outside of the Race". On the other hand, many MEChA members claim that it is "By the People, everything; outside of the People, nothing." Many people within MEChA understand this as a sentiment similar to "United we stand, divided we fall".  Alternatively, the phrase can be translated as "For the (Chincanos) race, everything. Outside of the (Chincano) race, nothing" as Por=for in this instance is more linguistically correct translation.
The term La Raza, while translating directly to "race", in this instance, refers "La Raza de bronce", the bronze race, a term coined by early 20th century Latin American writers to refer to the mestizo race that arose in America with the arrival of (Spanish) European colonisers and their intermingling with the indigenous population. However, when the term was revived in El Plan Espiritual de Aztlan in 1960s, La Raza (de bronce) was recoined to refer to Latinos in the United States and the people in Mexico as a unified "race", similar to the black and white races. In this sense it is largely synonymous to the notion of the Chicano nation. The decision to call it a separate race may have been influenced by the contemporary negative views of "ethnic" or "nation" based nationalism and positive views of "race" based nationalism.
La Raza de bronce is also often interchangily refered as "La Raza Cósmica", which emphasise the mixed nature of mestizo race. The term means "the cosmic race", which embodies the notion that traditional, exclusive concepts of race and nationality can be transcended in the name of humanity's common destiny. It originally referred to a movement by Mexican intellectuals during the 1920s arguing Mexicans have the blood of all the world's races (white, black, Arab, Amerindian and Asian) and therefore transcend the world. It should be noted that the term la raza is widely used throughout Latin America, not just by Mexican American and has additional layers of meaning referring to the sense of collective culture and consciousness of Spanish speakers of the New World. In Spain, la raza refers to Spanish.  The Comumbus day which was celebrated under the title in Spain as the Día de la Raza ("day of the race") was changed to "Día de la Hispanidad." In Spain, the "race" of reference in the original name was that of the Spanish people and did not reflect the mestizo characterization found in many Latin American countries. In Latin America (and in some Latino communities in the USA), the day is still celebrated as the Día de la Raza, commemorating the first encounters of Europe and the Americas which would produce the new Mestizo race, culture, and identity. La raza, hence, imply "us", similar to the German word volk, which literally means "folk" (people) but is similarly difficult to translate to other languages because the term has attained highly politicised meaning. However, the broadest demacation of la Raza is spanish language speakers and specifically exculde indigenous native population who has not assimilated to Spanish speaking colonists. They are refered as Indigena, and are distinguished from la Raza.
::Spoken like a true appologist. Dullfig 18:39, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: La Raza

message: We don't seem to have sources for the criticisms, or for the responses. Unless someone know where this info came from it should be deleted. -Will Beback 20:11, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is generaly accepted that articles in Wikipedia contain information on the subject, and then maybe a criticism section. We can't have a response to criticism seciton. Prety soon we'll have a rebutal secition, and a counter rebutal, and it will never end. If you feel that there is a need to counter criticism, then maybe the main section is not being presented properly, and should be modified accordingly. Dullfig 16:58, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: agree. glad it's gone. danedouard00 20:21, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticisms and responses 

message: For everyone trying to say Raza more means people, where do you think it came from? Raza came from the Old Italian word Razza, which meant race or cultural heritage, and diffused into spanish and french from there, and then became the word Race in English. 72.199.100.223 (talk) 06:18, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  La Raza 

message: Is there any precedent for a passionate and outraged accusation that someone else is being unjustly framed for planning a separatist movement? I don't get the sense that Hispanic families in America live in constant fear of being portrayed as collectively wanting to secede from the union. Is there anyone who really believes that racial abuse of Hispanics is based on claims that they harbor aspirations for ruling a Mojave Desert hermit kingdom?
69.254.165.61 (talk) 03:27, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Official Thing The Hispanics Are Being Framed For 

message: — Assignment last updated by S4mon (talk) 20:05, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: Migration in World History