Talk:Whig Party (United States)

message: * Oppose per the same reasoning being used at Talk:Whig (British political party), neither British nor American parties should get the prime locations, since it would be biased against the other -- 76.65.128.43 (talk) 05:15, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: *I don't know that it matters, but the U.S. party is of course more notable. It got 347,947 page views in the last 90 days, the British party got 67,542. Kauffner (talk) 11:30, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: *I'm sorry, but that is not a viable establishment of notability and your claim that the American party is more notable is frankly laughable and could only be made by someone with a highly US-centric view of the world. The Whigs were one of the two major parties in British politics for 200 years. The American party only operated for about twenty years. All these statistics establish is that there are more Americans in the world! Well, we knew that. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:45, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

text: *I hope the closer doesn't consider anti-Americanism a valid reason to add cruft to the names of American parties. I think I can boast a track record of voting for French topics such as Hall_of_Mirrors_(Palace_of_Versailles) to be primary when they should be. As for Britannica, those are not article titles, but come from their equivalent to a DAB page. Kauffner (talk) 22:01, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

text: **Kauffner, use of the term "cruft" is cheap and prejudicial. The closer of the RM is unlikely to be impressed by such rhetoric. Nor does anyone here suggest that anti-US or pro-US sentiment ought to decide the matter. And then there is this: "As for Britannica, those are not article titles, but come from their equivalent to a DAB page." Sorry to be personal for a moment; but you have continually misrepresented the Britannica system. I have had to point this out to you several times, but you persist. No, those full and precise titles are not like DAB pages on WP. They are the titles everyone finds on Britannica, whether searching at their site or on Google. Look on the Britannica site for ho chi minh city, and you get this title listed as the top result: "Ho Chi Minh City (Vietnam)". That does not disambiguate, because there is only one meaning on Britannica for "Ho Chi Minh City". It is not a DAB page; it's a helpfully precise title as used in all Britannica indexing. The title is shown sparsely at the page itself, harmlessly. Compare this unformatted Google search on Ho Chi Minh City Britannica. Please do not make misleading statements in RM discussions; they require significant work to correct. NoeticaTea? 23:56, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: *Ah, I think I see the problem now. The online version of Britannica has a paywall, so you are not experiencing its full features. I have the full version installed on my PC. ('Nam is sadly deficient in the area of copyright protection.) When I type in a search term, the "primary topic" comes up in the main window, while the titles with parentheticals appear in small type in a column on the left. So if the primary is what the reader is looking for, he never has to bother with the parenthicals. Kauffner (talk) 00:52, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: What problem? What are you talking about? How is the "full version" on your PC relevant in this comparison of online encyclopedias? (I have a Britannica installed on my computer also.) How does what you say count against the points I make about searches at the Britannica site, or on Google? I have full access to the Britannica site, and I have also checked the limited paywall-restricted view of it. What I write above stands. What is your exact point in response, with regard to DAB pages and precision in article titles? NoeticaTea? 01:23, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:EN does not specify "online encyclopedias". The DVD version of Britannica effectively gives you a primary topic for every search term. Article titles are the actual names of the subjects, given without disambiguation. The limited free version is a hamstrung implementation, not a model. Kauffner (talk) 02:46, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Right, it does not specify online encyclopedias. But that is the most direct comparison to make, for up-to-the-minute practice and widest usage. Do you think more people encounter Britannica online, or on DVD (very likely out of date; what date is yours?)? You still have not addressed what I say. As I told you, I checked both the full and the "hamstrung" version and I find no relevant difference. So again, what are you talking about? How does anything that you say counter my points? From the very start those were about searches at the Britannica site (under any kind of access!) and Google searches that include the term "Britannica". NoeticaTea? 03:14, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: I believe this part: "During the Lincoln Administration, ex-Whigs dominated the Republican Party and enacted much of their American System. Presidents Abraham Lincoln, Rutherford B. Hayes, Chester A. Arthur, and Benjamin Harrison were Whigs before switching to the Republican Party, from which they were elected to office. It is considered the primary predecessor party of the modern-day Republicans." in the fourth paragraph is too reductionist in saying that the Whigs were the true predecessors to Republicans. Abraham Lincoln's first VP, Hannibal Hamlin was a Democrat; Fremont was a Democrat; the New York Republican Party was very much relying on the votes of former Democrats and it was primarily Democrats who fought for Free Soil in 1848 and would then go on to form the Republicans. See https://www.jstor.org/stable/23169428 Codename Jenny V (talk) 03:49, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should Whigs really be counted as the predecessor to the Republicans?