Wikipedia talk:Scottish Wikipedians' notice board/Archive 7

message: Article Burgh of barony states that "were created between 1450 and 1707". Is this misleading, or does this mean that Baronial burghs are different from Burghs of barony, since the first burgh founded by a baron dates to between the years 1124 and 1127, that is, the burgh of Renfrew founded by the new Stewart lord of Strathgryfe. And where would this place the burgh of Haddington, which may have been founded by an earl, and was certainly under the control of the earls of Dunbar for large periods. Since an earl is higher than a baron, would this be a comital burgh? Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 00:57, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Take a look at this site for brief explanations of the different burgh types. http://www.scan.org.uk/knowledgebase/topics/burgh.htm   --Billreid 15:36, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks, but it just says the same thing the wiki articles say and indeed looks like their source, and so I'm none the wiser. Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 16:41, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Baronial burghs 

message: Can someone please tell me if the use of council logos is inappropriate.  There are three articles that I've contributed to that are descriptions of burghs or council areas.  I included the image of the council logo but have been reverted and the image removed.  Since we actually have a category:Scottish council logos what is the position here.  Thanks --Billreid 16:20, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's fair use (to a degree) to use a council logo on the page for that council. It's really not fair use to use it on articles for towns and cities inside that council area. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 19:51, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for that --Billreid 11:35, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Use of council logos

message: All of the following name changes are being discussed at Talk:Cináed I of Scotland#Requested move:
* Cináed I of Scotland → Kenneth I of Scotland
* Cináed II of Scotland → Kenneth II of Scotland
* Cináed III of Scotland → Kenneth III of Scotland
* Domnall I of Scotland → Donald I of Scotland
* Domnall II of Scotland → Donald II of Scotland
* Domnall III of Scotland → Donald III of Scotland
* Donnchad I of Scotland → Duncan I of Scotland
* Donnchad II of Scotland → Duncan II of Scotland
* Máel Coluim I of Scotland → Malcolm I of Scotland
* Máel Coluim II of Scotland → Malcolm II of Scotland
* Máel Coluim III of Scotland → Malcolm III of Scotland
An  approval poll is in-process, as of August 28.  All interested editors are invited to participate. --Elonka 01:21, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 

message: User:OSX seems to determined to make Helensburgh a disambiguation page, with links to a renamed Helensburgh, Argyll and Bute, Scotland and to (also renamed) Helensburgh, New South Wales, Australia. In my opinion this is unnecessary and I've now changed it to simple disambiguation lines at the top of articles, making Helensburgh, Argyll and Bute, Scotland a redirect to Helensburgh. No doubt the fun will continue, assistance will be appreciated. ...dave souza, talk 06:44, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Helensburgh, Argyll and Bute, Scotland

message: I'd appreciate it if some editors have a look at the New Lanark article and perhaps make some edits to clean it up and bring it more in line with other articles. Thanks/wangi 15:56, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Lanark 

message: There is a dispute on Henry Stuart, Lord Darnley. It is quite petty. User:Proteus and his ally User:Alci12, insist on calling him "1st Duke of Albany"; whereas User:Waimea, User:Rcpaterson and myself are pointing out that this is quite pointless and misleading. He was not actually the "first" Duke of Albany, the only reason for calling him that is because of a cranky system known only to those who have been using crummy peerage books. Under this system, a thing called "creation" is imposed on past grants of titles. Therefore, Darnley by this system is the "1st Duke of Albany" because he was granted the title without reference to claims purely at the will of the crown. This is all very well, but IMHO there is no need to call him "1st Duke of Albany" when "Duke of Albany will do", and there is no ambiguity in this case. Anyways, there needs to be mediation. There is also the issue of Proteus' bad behaviour as an admin, which includes using the roll-back function to revert (see Wikipedia:Administrators#Reverting) and lying to other users: e.g. he claimed that a project page which he wrote is "policy", presumably in an effort to get his way. Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 02:38, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've had problems with the two of them before. There's another, as well. They're from the Peerage WP, and quite intent on presenting those crummy peerage books which you refer to as reality. Good luck, I'll be over there shortly. Canæn  23:30, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  They seem to have given up the fight on this for now, but the page still needs watching in case they return. Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 23:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  The "xth" is not used for Royal Dukes- eg Prince Richard, Duke of Gloucester- if that helps. Astrotrain 20:30, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Review:[[Henry Stuart, Lord Darnley]] 

message: What do Scottish Wikipedians think about the following statement?  Is it even true?
"What it has to do with is the law of arms in Scotland.....and so in Scotland is illegal" -as I have already stated to you once - wikipedia comes under the jurisdiction and laws of Florida - not Scotland - so it's use here at wikipedia is not illegal, and to state that it is intentionally misleading.  The only laws that matter are the US Federal laws and Florida state laws - it is as simple as that. SFC9394 14:09, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The above deposit is by sockpuppeteer User:Mallimak. --Mais oui! 16:45, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Well, it's true as far as it goes. However, if someone in Scotland were to publish a print version of Wikipedia, that version would be bound by Scots law. It's the same issue as is raised by the "fair use" right. It may well be legal in Florida but it still adds a restriction to the (re-)use of Wikipedia in other jurisdictions. Hence the current drive to reduce the amount of "fair use" material as far as possible. Other laws may not matter from the point of view of the Wikimedia Foundation's legal liability but they do matter from the Point of view of maximising the global re-usability of the Wikipedia itself. -- Derek Ross | Talk 16:50, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scots Law and Wikipedia 

message: Can anyone with the requisite knowledge or sources please respond to this IP query: Talk:Scotland Act 1978. They make a good point, and it would be nice to be able to remove the rather intrusive "contradiction" template from the top of the article itself. Ta. --Mais oui! 10:58, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scotland Act 1978 - when exactly was it repealed? 

message: I have just started (on 14 September 2006) a new page, Scottish Reformation. All contributions and advice gratefully received! I will slowly try to add to it, but any other help would be great! Slackbuie [- talk page]
: I was about to say "surely we must have an article about that", but I can't find one.  Once it's presentable, can you change the redir Protestant Reformation in Scotland to it and make a main article link in History of Scotland#Protestant Reformation to it also. I also recommend you take a trip down to Ralph Slater and buy a pair of bigot-proof-underpants, as articles like this tend to attract more than their fair share of nutters (of all persuasions). -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 20:17, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for tackling this: it's a complex subject with influences from the English monarchy and the Scottish nobility that I'd not expected. I've a copy of Michael Lynch's 1991 Scotland – A New History which gives info on it, so will try to contribute but if our historians think that's out of date now please let me know! ..dave souza, talk 21:08, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks for your encouragement, guys (at least I think it was encouragement!). I too was amazed to discover this article didn't exist. The Reformation section of Scottish History is workmanlike, but it's pretty basic, and there's not a lot about the religious questions and changes in it, funnily enough! I like Michael Lynch's book and it would be a good starting point, and I think he also wrote the article on the Reformation in the Dictionary of Scottish History, but I'll check. I hadn't really thought about whether this would attract bigots and nutters (I am tooooo innocent!), but then this is the Internet after all! Some of us still live with the effects of the Scottish Reformation, so I can understand that people feel a bit precious about it all. But hopefully folk will try to stick to the facts we (think we) know. Even religion can be written about NPOV. After all it is only history and it all happened a long time ago... --Slackbuie 20:25, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scottish Reformation 

message: *Francis Mackenzie, 1st Baron Seaforth
*Lord Lieutenant of Ross-shire
*Mackenzie Baronets
could use a polish. - Kittybrewster 09:43, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: New pages

message: It's my understanding that Well dressing is also practiced in Ireland and Scotland.  Does anyone have any reliable sources on this?  If not, and if it's not appropriate to add any Scottish traditions to the Well dressing article, perhaps we need a Holy Wells article that can focus on Scottish and Irish holy well traditions, and possibly well-veneration traditions from other cultures.  In this vein, I have started a Clootie article. --Kathryn NicDhàna 02:25, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it is (or at least it was). I don't know of any written sources for that though. It's just one of those common knowledge things that I know for some reason. I don't think that Clootie is a good name for an article though. In Scotland a cloot is a cloth and so a clootie is just a "small cloth". If anything it makes me think of clootie dumpling rather than clootie wells. So I think the article would be better entitled "clootie well".-- Derek Ross | Talk 03:51, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think clootie well does make more sense.  I started it as clootie because I mentioned clooties on trees in another article, and there was nothing to link to.  Maybe tomorrow I'll move it if I get a chance. --Kathryn NicDhàna 04:11, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Minor point: is it worth making clootie dumpling a redirect to clootie which now has a recipe? ..dave souza, talk 12:53, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would say so. Although recipes should really be in the WikiBooks Cookbook. -- Derek Ross | Talk 17:56, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Ta. It's more of a description with a linked recipe, really. Any cooking's pretty much beyond my expertise, dumplings especially so :) ..dave souza, talk 00:02, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Holy Wells 

message: "Sawney Bean" is now a redirect to Alexander "Sawney" Bean. Can some of you back me up here please, and point out that the man is extremely rarely, if ever, referred to as "Alexander Bean", and that it should be moved back there. --MacRusgail 15:49, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sawney vs Alexander Bean 

message: Anybody out there agree? Arranging the Scottish people stubs by surnames (or where historically appropriate their relevant toponym)  would make finding one's subject matter easier. Big Job though! Brendandh 20:19, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Prænomenial Stubs

message: There is a campaign at the moment to redirect (in reality delete) BBC One Scotland to BBC One. I do not watch much telly, but from what I know it is a distinctive channel. Please contribute at:
*Talk:BBC One Scotland
--Mais oui! 10:35, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[BBC One Scotland]] - "merge", ie. delete proposal 

message: I wanted to draw attention to this category :Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Scotland. some people here may be able to use it or fill some requests. To add an article to it add  this   template to the Talk page GameKeeper 13:31, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Many thanks. That cat and template has been available since April, but if no-one ever tells us... :) --Mais oui! 14:06, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Images of Scotland

message: I'm hoping to submit Óengus I of the Picts as a featured article candidate. If have a few minutes to spare, any proofreading and copyediting efforts would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance, Angus McLellan  (Talk) 14:30, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I am minded to move Óengus I of the Picts to something less original. My preferred solution is the banal Óengus son of Fergus (d. 761) for the reasons set out at Talk:Óengus I of the Picts. If you agree, disagree, or have anything to add, please speak up. Angus McLellan  (Talk) 17:06, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Óengus I of the Picts

message: I don't know enough about the wars of independence, but what I do know leads me to believe that Andrew Moray and Sir Andrew Murray are the same person. I'd appreciate if someone with more knowledge would investigate.  Canæn  03:13, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Father and son, no ? Raymond Campbell Paterson contributed to them, and I'd think he knew what he was doing. Angus McLellan  (Talk) 17:07, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, I've little knowledge of the wars of independence. I hadn't heard of more than one Andrew Murrays being prominent leaders at the time, but it makes sense. I do wish the articles would be clarified, though.  Canæn  03:19, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Andrew Murray / Andrew de Moray 

message: This List of United Kingdom locations contains coordinates for many Scotish locations. These can we added to articles with the  ,  or   templates (See WP:DATE#Geographical_coordinates for template usage). Any help with disambiguation of the list is appreciated. GameKeeper 10:29, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Coordinates for Scotish locations

message: Does anyone know how to represent the Scottish pronunciation of the surname Carnegie in IPA. It would be nice to include in the Andrew Carnegie article. --Mais oui! 10:14, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  International Phonetic Alphabet - Carnegie 

message: For those interested in biography and/or architecture/local history, I have just come across this excellent academic resource:
*Dictionary of Scottish Architects, University of St Andrews and Arts and Humanities Research Council
Very useful indeed for starting missing articles and for providing citations/lists/external links etc. for existing ones. 
I found it because I noted that we do not have a James Souttar article yet.--Mais oui! 11:15, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is indeed a great resource. Can't wait til they expand it beyond the current 1840-1940 range! ::Supergolden:: 09:30, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dictionary of Scottish Architects 

message: I have nominated User:Angusmclellan's Óengus I of the Picts. You can go here to view the nomination. Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 05:05, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Óengus I of the Picts]] 

message: A minor edit war occured over at that article some time ago (see "Gaelic: "no need to use a foreign language"" above), over the use of the Gaelic name. It has broken out again, with some rather unfortunate heated language being recycled. If anyone can diseminate more light than heat, feel free...
The spirit of 3RR is being broken, if not the actual law. --Mais oui! 20:26, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Royal Bank of Scotland - "Gaelic POV-pushing" - again