Talk:Saburō Sakai

message: I'd like to see more info on the "kōdachi" cited source. Perhaps a literature number or the title in Kanji so it can be found. When trying to follow that source, it was unclear as specifically to which title it is referring. Perhaps including the Author or is kōdachi the author?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.201.39.74 (talk) 19:22, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Your comment is entirely off the mark. We can confirm that Sakai participated in the Pyramid scheme in the Source. And we can see it in the blog of this author.(For example, http://ameblo.jp/zero21nk/entry-10927275886.html) If you deny it, please show the source. If that's what you want, I will not add it. Do you have a source to deny it?--Sicmn (talk) 08:13, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  I am not attempting to deny it.  I am saying the request for a source that somebody did not do something is, by its very nature, an unreasonable request.  By the logic used elsewhere in these edits, his "confession" can not be used, because it is personal testimony. If we can not use his statements as fact for his history in WWII, then we can not use his statements for his participation - or lack thereof - in this "Pyramid scheme."  ScrapIronIV (talk) 15:24, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

text: I have asked for sources its content is false. "it is personal testimony" is your personal opinion. The author is a person familiar to Japanese Navy pilots. I've had enough, becouse I do not mind that it is not posted.--Sicmn (talk) 04:20, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

text: The explanation of troubles Sakai caused are spread over plural pages. It explain the background Sakai slandered dead comrades, probably. These seems to be known in Japan, but the content are extremely difficult, complete translation is hard job. Probably, I will not add it, and leave things to others.--Sicmn (talk) 12:03, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pyramid scheme 

message: I just watched the PBS series "Secrets of the Dead" episode on the "Pug" incident. More detail are included in Pug Southerland's article.
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/case_dogfight/index.html
Details included in the episode include the following:
The American attack on Guadalcanal was surprising and the nearest fighters that could reach the island were those in Rabaul. The island was at the limits of the Zero's range. Important equipment was removed to make the aircraft lighter, including the radio. Mounted with external fuel tanks, Sakai and his fellow pilots few four and a half hours to Guadalcanal and dumped their external fuel tanks before engaging the American pilots. Sakai commented on how there had to be 70 ships and how surprised he was to see that many ships below. He described looking down and seeing two Japanese fighters attempting to kill the Wildcat piloted by "Pug" Southerland. He was impressed by Pug's skill, noting that he should have been easily shot down. He engaged Southerland. Sakai's guns hit Southerland's Wildcat numerous times, but the more heavily armoured fighter absorbed the impact. Southerland was quoted as hearing many bullets hit the armoured plate directly behind his seat.
At one point, Southerland used a maneuver in which he slowed and forced Sakai to pass him in order to gain the advantage, but did not fire when he had the opportunity to shoot Sakai down. Sakai was quoted as believing he had made a fatal mistake and was about to be shot down. The episode focused, among other things, on why Pug did not fire. It was ultimately determined that his guns were most likely damaged from earlier encounters and would not fire. Sakai managed to slow alongside the Wildcat and saw Southerland, bloodied and injured. He returned to a position behind Southerland, and, according to him, decided to avoid shooting at the cockpit, and shot at the plane's engine with his 20mm canon (a fact supported by the findings in the engine wreckage in the episode). 
After looking for more planes, and not finding any, he saw several dots in the distance that he mistook for Wildcats (I don't recall which of the above mentioned bombers the episode said he encountered, but the article above says 30 caliber bullet), but he was shot at by the rear-facing gunner of that bomber. The bullet that hit him (at least the one discussed) was said to have gone through his windscreen, which slowed the bullet enough to prevent it from killing him. As it was, it passed through his head on his right side, through his brain, and out the back of his head. He lost the sight in his left eye, and also could not move the left side of his body. Thinking he was about to die, he looked for an American ship to kamakaze into, to die like a samurai. However, he found none and after some setbacks (some dives, spins, and whatnot), he managed to make the 5 hour return flight with only a compass and other basic instruments, almost crashing when he landed, but surviving. 
I hope this helps the detail in the article regarding one of Sakai's bestknown dogfightsTheHYPO 06:46, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  PBS series 

message: I have a problem with the assertion that Sakai's shooting down of Colin P. Kelly's B-17C 40-2045 on 10 December 1941 was the "first" Fortress shot down in the Pacific war.  B-17C 40-2074 of the 38th Reconnaissance Squadron, piloted by Capt. Raymond T. Swenson, was attacked by Zero fighters while on approach to Hickam Field on 7 December which set his magnesium flares alight. The hard landing broke the burning airframe in half aft the wing and it was written off.  I would say that 40-2074 was the first Fort shot down. (Salecker, Fortress Against the Sun, page 17-18, 2001.) Mark Sublette 20:09, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: First Fortress kill?

message: As per B-Class tags it needs appropriate citations. i think all major points could be cited but it could do with some more citations. These need to follow the correct Wikipedia:Citation templates and conform to WP:CITE which they do not at the moment. Woodym555 20:34, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Citations

message: In exchanging of total colaboration, during Cold War, "Uncle Sam" forgot all crimes of Emperor Hirohito.A brazilian general Aurélio de Lira Tavares told decades ago:Military means obediency.This great japanese patriot told the true:japanese military, just were followig Hirohito's orders, during World War II.Saburo Sakai was a great ace and a great man. Agre22 (talk) 15:08, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Military means obedience

message: The following was added by an IP on Dec 17, 2010, with little regard to integration to the existing text:
Additonal Combat:
My quest began sometime shortly after World War II. I was a young boy (probably around 10 or 11) when my grandfather told me the story of how my father, Lt Colonel Francis R. Stevens, had been killed in the skies over New Guinea early in the War.
Years later,
• A series of pictures of my father’s plane being shot down (the very photos that had been the object of my quest).
• A picture of the man who had piloted the Japanese Zero that had fired the fatal bullets, the famous air ace, Saburo Sakai.
• A group photo of Sakai and the other pilots in his fighter squadron, taken just seconds before the siren sounded announcing the impending arrival of the flight of B-26’s, which included the “Wabash Cannonball,” my Dad’s airplane.
• A letter written by Sakai, recounting in considerable detail the events that unfolded in the short time between the taking of this last photo and my father’s plane crashing into the waters off Lae, in northern New Guinea - to include a second-by-second description of how he had attacked the “Wabash Cannonball” and shot it down.
It was, as you can imagine, quite an emotional moment for me.
I was able to add one anecdote of interest to Caidin and Hymoff, the story I have seen in print several times since, of how Dad wound up on the plane that Lyndon Johnson was supposed to ride on that fateful mission. What happened was that Johnson had originally gotten on the “Wabash Cannonball,” but had forgotten to take his camera with him. While he was retrieving his camera, Dad, unaware that Johnson had designs on sitting there, climbed into the seat that his friend had recently vacated. When Johnson returned to claim his place, Dad, in a lighthearted manner, told him that he would just have to find himself another airplane to ride that day. As fate would have it, the plane that Johnson wound up on developed engine trouble and never made it to the target, while the “Wabash Cannonball” was not to return from the mission. And the rest, as they say, is history.
From:
My Father and I and Saburo Sakai
Colonel Francis R. Stevens, Jr., USA-Retired
http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/cc/stevens.html
HarryZilber (talk) 05:13, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Misplace material 

message: This article needs to improve that it promote Samurai's viewpoints and reject Japanese autobiographies differing greatly from Samurai. "Editors, while naturally having their own points of view, should strive in good faith to provide complete information, and not to promote one particular point of view over another."(See Wikipedia:Neutral point of view), "Do not reject sources just because they are hard or costly to access."(See Wikipedia:Verifiability), "Verifiable sources may have technical or personal restrictions (written in languages other than English, on websites that require a certain software, available on a type of media that requires the reader to have a certain type of technological appliance to access it)"(See Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Cost)Unfortunately, users are deprived of the chance to get a lot of knowledge by the view of a specific user. My suggestion is to include both arguments in the article. Japanese autobiographies are the important sources Sakai wrote in his native language.
According to Japanese autobiography, His father was born as the third son of a wealthy farmer. As was often the case in Japan, the second, third son of farmers were not given their father's wealth. When Saburō Sakai was 5, his family left the head family because of the dissatisfaction. Therefore his family was forced to take a poor living. Saburō Sakai was born as the second, his given name from his grandfather's name "勝三郎 katsusaburō". See: Saburō Sakai Kusen Kiroku Volume 1, pp. 34-35. Original source; "私の父は, 村でも大きな農家の三男として生まれたが, 農家の次男, 三男に生まれた男の運命は, 今も昔もさして変わらず, 私たち兄弟が生まれても財産分けをしてくれない長兄のやりかたに見切りをつけて, 私たちの一家は, 夜逃げ同様で生家を出たらしい。私が五歳の時であった。私たち一家は, 家出してももちろん本家から財産を分けてもらえなかった。一家はたちまち生活に窮した。おもしろいことに, 私は次男であるが, 名前は三郎である。次男なのに三郎, へんだなと思って母に問いただしたら, 祖父の名の勝三郎から三郎の二字をもらったという。" When his father died, leaving his mother alone to raise six children. See: Saburō Sakai Kusen Kiroku Volume 1,pp. 37-38. Original source;"私が小学校六年生の秋のことであった。父はちょっとした風邪がもとで, 母と私たち六人の兄弟妹を残して, ぽっくりと死んでしまった。"--Sicmn (talk) 09:33, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Japanese autobiography

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: So we're not going to mention Saburō's post-war investigation to find the crew of a Lockheed Hudson he shot down and his 1997 recommendation to the Australian government for said aircrew to be awarded commendations for their valour and bravery? I mean, the way this article reads, you'd be forgiven in thinking there were no other allied belligerents in the Pacific Theatre other than the US. His efforts were well known in Australia through the late 90s, early noughties.
(Episode available from ABC Australia, transcript here: https://www.abc.net.au/austory/enemy-lines-july-1,-2002/10447776)
(14.2.97.241 (talk) 02:52, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Very American POV/Saburō's efforts to get RAAF flight crew recognition 

message: Why is the whole last paragraph at the bottom of the "Southeast Asia" section retelling a false story as if it is true even after saying it is false? I feel as any paragraph starting with "A myth which has been perpetuated over time, but has been declared as a product of the imagination..." has no place in an otherwise historical retelling and should be deleted. MG George H Thomas (talk) 12:26, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section dedicated to myth?