Talk:Creaky voice

message: Can we have some examples? lysdexia 14:08, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

message: I can't find a reason to include the link to Khmer in the See Also section. First off, it's a disambig page, but I read through the whole article at Khmer language and couldn't find a reference to this phonation. Please respond with reasons for its inclusion, or I will remove the link next Wednesday. BonsaiViking 20:59, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See, I'm reading this article 'cos I was trying to figure out how the inherent vowel in Burmese is supposed to be pronounced, and the page MLC Transcription System - linked from Burmese script - has it in the "creaky voice" column, and it didn't make any sense to me, given what I know about creaky voice, that the inherent vowel would be creaky. In any case, I would assume that Khmer might have some manifestation of creaky voice, given the proximity of these two languages, but I looked into it as well and could not find it. The important question this brings up is whether or not to include a list of languages which do implement creaky voice, and how they are manifested if they do, and I just don't have any idea how one would go about finding sourcable information on that. this raven is icy (talk) 00:50, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Khmer in "see also" 

message: It would be good to have an audio example of the Vietnamese pronunciation of a syllable with this creaky voice.  Badagnani 21:25, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It would be good to have any audio examples on this page. Binksternet 08:44, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe if I can ever get a microphone that works... -- trlkly 04:24, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

text: the link to kuow.org is a transcription, the audio recording is also available and is an excellent example of the phenomenon in the Pacific NW. Pity we can't use it. njaard (talk) 09:01, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Audio 

message: Is Clarence "Frogman" Henry's croaking voice on the last third of his hit song "Ain't Got No Home" an example of creaky voice? If so, it should be mentioned. Binksternet 08:44, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, and no. Yes, he is using a creaky voice function (glottal fry). But, no it shouldn't be mentioned, unless you can find a source calling it that. A quick Google search found nothing. — trlkly 16:10, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Frogman

message: *Closing as No Consensus This merger discussion has been open for over a year without yielding clear support to merge or not to merge. I am removing the tags as it doesn't seem likely that a consensus will be reached. Best.4meter4 (talk) 02:49, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: No. Different topic. — kwami (talk) 05:08, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

text: Yes, absolutely. Clearly, it's the same topic, and even a large part of the lead is duplicated for both articles. Klortho (talk) 15:10, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

text: It seems to me that if any merger happens, it should go the other way: vocal fry should be merged into creaky voice. Most phonations are labeled using some adjective and "voice": modal voice, breathy voice, slack voice, and so on. And the x voice name is the term used when particular types of voice are phonemic in a language. The consonants in Hindi are called breathy-voiced consonants, the consonant and syllabic quality contrast in Javanese is called stiff voice–slack voice or stiff voice–modal voice, the "muddy consonants" in Shanghainese are called slack-voiced, etc. As far as I know, vocal fry is a term used only for the prosodic feature in some sociolects of English, and it's clearly a subtype of creaky voice, not the other way around. — Eru·tuon 19:16, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  +1.  That jibes with this comment on that talk page. Klortho (talk) 20:54, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Cool — I guess the perspectives of speech pathology (the other person) and phonetics or phonology (me) can agree in this case. — Eru·tuon 21:19, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

text: Support. Looks like Vocal fry register should be merged here. Benny White (talk) 03:36, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Modal voice seems to be a combined article. I'm not an expert, but is the distinction important enough to warrant two sets of articles? Benny White (talk) 18:30, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably not.  I just don't want to see the two spliced together so they don't cohere as a single topic.  — kwami (talk) 21:45, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Though I support the merger, I agree that coherence will be difficult, and we will have to achieve it somehow if we merge. I don't know how books cover the two topics, but vocal fry may be classifiable as an intonational form of creaky voice, as opposed to a suprasegmental phoneme. — Eru·tuon 22:00, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't remember well, but I suspect that's why they're still two articles.  It's just easier that way.  Combining them would require some dedicated editing.  — kwami (talk) 23:07, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

text: Support combining under "Creaky voice" title. --Jtle515 (talk) 08:45, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shouldn't this article just be combined into the "Vocal fry register in speech" section of the vocal fry page? 

message: Hey y'all, So I am actually a grad student who does work on this phonation. I'd love to do some work fleshing out the organization of the page adding specific sections on sociolinguistic work on creak and its perceptual effects. Additionally, I'd love to add some sections to flesh out more info on the languages in which creak is a factor in minimal pairing, etc. The page is sorely lacking currently, also since the page is *so* vague/brief it's giving a somewhat incorrect impression concerning creaks' use by young American women. If I see no responses around next 2 weeks or so, I'll start working on incremental changes and additions to add a more nuanced view of the affect.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Ling Pixie (talk • contribs) 20:50, 3 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: You don't have to wait two weeks, feel free to be bold. Nardog (talk) 21:10, 3 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  More Nuanced Discussion of Vocal Creak? 

message: I tried outlining the issues with sources 3-7 but they were lost in the edit description unfortunately. I'll reproduce it here:
Statement with poor sources: "Creaky voice is prevalent as a peer-group affectation among young women in the United States."
 
Sources: 3,4,5,6,7 
Summary: None of these sources show that young woman in particular exhibit this style of speech more than other groups, and none for the United States as a whole. There may be better sources that show this point but these are not it. The sample size and locality are the issues with theses sources. Extrapolating 20 woman to the entire country is akin to polling 20 Americans who they'll vote for during their next presidential election and concluding the winner.
Source 3: 
This is an opinion article about the dialect of the Pacific Northwest. It cites research done here: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/247093915_Pacific_northwest_vowels_A_Seattle_neighborhood_dialect_study
This research has a sample size of the voices of 8 women and 6 men from one city in Washington state. It is not representative of young American women as a whole.
Source 4: 
This link is broken but I suspect that it is meant to be the study I listed above. If you are going to undo my changes, consider replacing this link with the link I provided in the source 3 issue description.
Source 5: 
The source says it best on it's own:
"It is important to note that because my study examined creaky voice
usage and its perception in only two regions, northern California and eastern Iowa, and because my auditory and acoustic analyses were limited to
speech samples from only 12 college-age females in California, I was unable
to determine its geographic distribution, how it has spread, or whether its
usage might vary across regions. "
The people chosen to be recorded were chosen by the authors of the study because they had the California dialect in the author's opinion. This means creaky voice is more of an attribute of what they think the California dialect is. 
On the second part of the study:
" Although the perception test question did not specify the age of the female speakers,
I assume that most respondents answered based on the speech of women
close to their own age (20s and 30s) since this is the age group with which
they regularly interact. However, their reported perceptions may pertain to
creaky voice used by older or even younger women. "
The study does not ask about older vs younger women in terms of creaky voice. 
Source 6: 
Taken from the abstract of the study: "Subjects were 34 female college students". The conclusion: "Preliminary findings were taken to suggest that use of the vocal fry register may be common in some adult SAE speakers." This does not support the claim that "Creaky voice is prevalent as a peer-group affectation among young women in the United States."
Source 7: 
this link is for a recording that is no longer available. I tried to track it down elsewhere but was unable to. 
Secondcommand (talk) 04:52, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia:Be bold. Nardog (talk) 11:00, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source Issues 

message: This is an actually existing thing in the IPA?! I thought I just made it up! UltraDestroya48 (talk) 04:08, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wait, what??