Talk:Spanish language/Archive 6

message: At the moment it just keeps on repeating the same thing over and over without any proper references. Spanish is the most important language in the world. This makes it an important language in the USA. As an important langauge it is learnt by many people this in turn makes it more important. Important ...
*That's real cute.  Of course, being cute is rarely productive.  So stop being cute, and maybe we'll see past the cuteness.  'Cuz, yeah, that was real cute. JuJube 02:36, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Change the intro please

message: This article has some problems.  The claims in the introduction are notably problematic as they do not include any references.  It seems clear that various studies have come up with different statistics, so its good to mention that, but if you're going to state any particular number, at least drop a reference.  And "Some assert" are coward words.  
Anyways, I'd like to propose fixing up the intro by including some references and replace the "second most important language" bit with a more general "is a very important language"  Can someone can cite a reference that actually says "second most important language"?  Even if someone can come up with a reference, it seems that something like ranking the importance of a language is probably inherently POV and somewhat meaningless.  
Also, I think coloring New Mexico dark green is incorrect.  According to Spanish in the United States, Spanish is not the most widely spoken language there.
I'll try to start some research tomorrow. If you got any good references, please list them here!
Ehlkej 05:57, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Accuracy and references 

message: I've just reverted a change in the part of the article describing the sounds of written g. It turns out that in English, "hard g" means g as in get () while "soft g" means g as in gin (). In Spanish, most people don't use this terminology but would probably consider the fricative g as in gema () "hard", in the sense of "harsh". What do we do? I'd prefer eradicating the common but confusing "hard/soft" distinction and speak properly of fricative and plosive sounds.  --Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 15:19, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Soft or hard? 

message: Section and information about the map, collected to :commons:Image talk:Map-Hispanophone World.png  Yug (talk)
 17:50, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I never noticed before! I'll contact the creator of the Map for references. Mariano(t/c) 07:04, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spanish in northwestern Brazil ? 

message: The Outside Spain IPA transcription for El quijote has at least one mistake. "Rocín" is transcribed as /ro'θin/, which must be wrong as that is the transcription given for Inside Spain. However I don't have the knowdlege to try to correct it (do I just change /θ/ to /s/? or do some vowels change too?), so I decided I'll just tell you here. 201.133.90.50 02:43, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The transcriptions are given as phonetic rather than phonemic. This means one is transcribing the actual sounds and allophones rather than the phonemes, and it may be very relevant to make it explicit that the t and d are pronounced dental and not alveolar (which is the default meaning for those symbols), a clarification that is especially relevant for English-speaking audiences whose t and d are not dental. Uaxuctum 19:25, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Almost nobody, except (most of) the Spaniards and people with a lisp, pronounces z as /θ/. —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 14:58, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  When I added the comment it said Standard Spanish, not Latin American Spanish or Porteño, and since three are three Standard Spanish, I thought that should be changed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.218.119.14 (talk) 12:35, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong IPA transcription 

message: We've had the last part of the intro removed and then reinstated. I personally have no problem with the content of the text, but I think it's true that it's spurious. Words like "arguably", "considered", etc., without sources, all point to the fact that the text is opinion, a comment, or basic original research. Anyone who reads the article will conclude that Spanish is extremely important; there's no need to tell the reader that. This is an article, not an essay; it must inform, not convince. I won't remove the text again myself to avoid an edit war, unless there's a consensus to do it. What do other editors say? —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 00:33, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Importance of Spanish 

message: has inserted some text that is not coherent with the rest of the article. It sets French as the second or third most important language (without sources), and sets the birth rate in most of the countries where it is official as one of the main reaons for it being so popular, which is completly tendentious. Though he/she adds other information that is not completly erroneous. I'll try to fix its edits, but the article's opening paragraph should be revised. Mariano(t/c) 10:53, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  User:Losbeatles 

message: Hola. I've started a new page called Differences between Spanish and Portuguese. I thought it was better to have a specific article for it, since the comparisons were taking up too much of the Portuguese language article. Feel free to add to the new article. Saludos. FilipeS 19:01, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Comparison between Spanish and Portuguese

message: Hi,
Is is ok to add http://www.TODO-CLARO.COM as a new web ressource here? TODO-CLARO.COM offers free interactive Spanish exercises for beginners, intermediate and advanced students. Users can chose from different exercise types (grammar, situations, vocabulary, cultural studies). Feedback welcome.
:Sadly the course is in German, so I would say no. Mariano(t/c) 06:54, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not enough to point to the main URL. http://www.todo-claro.com/English_cultural_studies_overview.php is the URL to use if wanted. Anyway, it only has a Quiz of cultural things, so still not good enough (my oppinion only). Mariano(t/c) 11:33, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

text: The general criterion we've been using in Spanish-related pages is pointing to major websites and avoiding conjugation quizzes, courses, tutorials, etc., of which there are literally thousands, and which can be easily found using a common search engine, should the reader need them. —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 13:51, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spanish web ressource? 

message: This section could use a rework.  I reformatted the table and renamed the comparing Spanish and Catalan section to comparing Spanish and other languages since the table includes Latin and English, et al. The text by the table also goes into comparing Catalan with Portuguese.  I think the table needs to move and maybe the romance languages and other languages section combined, but I want to hear what others think.  Ryanminier 16:53, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Related languages section

message: I've removed a large part of the external links of this article, in keeping with a sensible interpretation of WP:EL and WP:NOT. We do not need every conceivable online dictionary, quizz, tutorial, etc. about Spanish. Wikipedia readers can find those easily with a search engine. I've kept important reference materials, including one tutorial site because it allows for a grammar to be downloaded, rather than browsed. Some of the websites I removed were more advertising than content; others had mistakes; one was very interesting, but consisted solely of unverified original research; most repeated basic information already present in this article or its sub-articles. I suggest that new external links should be considered very carefully before being added. For some reason this page seems to be a major spam attractor... —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 22:24, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My apologies! I added a link back in September or so, and noted that it survived a few of the 'despamming' raids. The link I added was for: http://www.wordreference.com/es/en/translation.asp?spen= As a beginner in Spanish, I find this site to be very helpful. The structure of the different tenses and etc. In my opinion, wordreference is far superior to the yahoo link because of this, and I believe it deserves a space in the external links section! But, it's our call, and not mine! :) By the way, here is an example of the conjugation that I talked about: http://www.wordreference.com/conj/ESverbs.asp?v=comer 84.209.8.237 02:46, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links section de-bloated (again) 

message: Puerto Rico is listed as one of the 22 countries that have Spanish as an official language.  However, it should be noted that Puerto Rico is not a country, but a commonwealth of the United States, and that its residents are citizens of the United States, not of Puerto Rico.  --Tim4christ17 07:27, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Puerto Rico

message: In the part Examples of English with Spanish Transcription and Pronunciation, there is a problem with the transcription:
English: In a village of La Mancha, 
 the name of which I have no desire to recall... 
It's true that in the modern spanish we understand I don't want to remember something, but in the spanish of Cervantes, the meaning is I can't remember something. It does more sense than the other transcription, I think.
Are you sure about that?  I have a dictionary that goes back to the early 1700s, which is, granted, still 200 years later, but the definition given in said period for querer was:
::QUERER. v.a. Deſear ò apetecer con ánſia alguna coſa. Tiene la anomalía de recibir una i deſpues de la u en algunos tiempos y perſonas: como Yo quiero, Quiere tu, Aquel quiera, &c. y en los pretéritos toma la is en lugar de er: como Quiſe , quiſera, &c. y en el imperfecto de ſubjuntivo duplica la r diciendo Querria.  Sale del Latino Quærere, que vale buſcar.  Lat. Velle. Appetere. SOLD. PIND. lib.2.§.II. Querían antes de ſoltar el páxaro, tener aſido otro de mejor pluma. VILLEG. Erotic. Od.20.
:::Qué me ſirve el dinéro,
:::Si no me ha de alcanzar lo que yo quiero?
::QUERER. Significa tambien amar con deſeo, tener cariño, voluntad ò inclinación à alguna perſona. Lat. Diligere. Amore proſequi. LOP. Arcad. f.118.Amé. quiſe y adoré una hermoſa Paſtóra. MORET. Com. Antioco y Seleuco. Jord.I. Tom V.
Since this obviously doesn't date back to the first Diccionario I'll admit I could very well be wrong, but from the definition here, it sounds like philologists back in the day saw querer as only a means of desire, or perhaps search/longing (since it claims it came from the Latin word for to search).  I think "I can not search for" versus "I can not find" are two slightly different things.  If anyone else has studied much golden age Spanish and can voice in (or can site an early Diccionario, which I'd be quite interested in seeing) we can try to clarify the translation. Matthew Stuckwisch 02:47, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  One problem about the start of El Quijote 

message: I just edited the consonant table, which differed from the one in the phonology page, most notably with the addition of retroflex sounds.  I tried to find a discussion of the inclusion of these but couldn't find anything.  There was also no indicator of what conditions these allophones occur in.  Does anyone know what the deal is? AEuSoes1 09:21, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Consonant table

message: I took the example of Aragon off from the sentence which says that 'the Castilian dialect differs from those of other regions of Spain (Andalusia and Aragon for example)'. While this is true that Castilian (Northern Spanish) differs significantly in many aspects -particularly in phonology- from Southern Spanish (mainly Murcia, most of Extremadura, Andalusia and the Canary Islands), the same is not true for the northern regions, where either a different language is spoken (Galician, Asturian, Basque, Aragonese and Catalan) or Spanish is spoken in a clearly Castilian way. The main differences are in intonation and the use of some words, but that happens even within different parts of Castile itself. There are no remarkable differences between the way Castilian is spoken in Soria (E of Castile) and central Aragon, for instance. Aragonese is a different language, but nowadays it is only spoken actively in the north of Aragon, so we are not talking of bilingual interference here. The Spanish spoken in Aragon is clearly Castilian, only with some little differences in vocabulary and a characteristic intonation that are due to the medieval extension of the Aragonese language and that presently is common to Aragon, most of Navarre, E of La Rioja, and Castilian provincias next to Aragon. These are the reasons why I edited that part. Estrolicador 02:56, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Change of inaccurate example

message: I think the table has too many languages. While the notes on Quebec French and Basque are interesting, and should be kept, no one doubts that standard French, Italian, and Spanish are different languages. There is already a general comparison between Romance languages at Romance languages. This article should focus on the languages that are more closely related to Spanish, such as Portuguese and Catalan. FilipeS 21:03, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, in several aspects Italian is closer to Spanish than Portuguese. Anyway, its true the article is about Spanish, so Portuguese and Catalá could also be removed. Mariano(t/c) 06:27, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Perhaps is the pronunciation, but I believe I can understand much better Italian than Portuguese, especially spoken, but also written. Then again, it might also be my dialectic Spanish. Mariano(t/c) 13:21, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Comparison with Other languages: Why Italian and French?

message: The section on Portuguese seems a little bloated, compared to the rest of the article. If there are no objections, I think I'll move some of it to the specific article, Differences between Spanish and Portuguese. FilipeS 13:40, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Comparison between Spanish and other Romance languages: Portuguese

message: In the table it says that in Argentina there are 41,248,000 speakers of Spanish, however the article on Argentina says that the total population of Argentina is 39,921,833. The same goes for Puerto Rico and many other countries listed. What is the source for the first figures (and generally all figures in that table)?--Rudjek 20:03, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ethnologue has a detailed table of the numbers of Spanish speakers . Would anyone object if I used these figures?--Rudjek 20:11, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Figures from Ethnologue are more than 10 years old! Differences in Argentine population reside probably in the year of estimation (2005/2006?); next census in 2011. Mariano(t/c) 07:54, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed, the 2006 estimate in Argentina's infobox is 39,921,833. The figure of 41,248,000 speakers should be removed unless someone can explain how it fits with the census data. Old data are better than wrong data. —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 13:26, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number of speakers 

message: I just started taking spanish and my teacher tells us to find some phrases to translate so i came to wiki and found the yahoo translator, but this only does singe words can someone please help my out? Chuck61007 02:40, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Online translator for sentences 

message: "Castilian" is given here as a synonym for "Spanish". I believe this is wrong. There is no question that in Spanish, when speaking of language castellano and español are interchangeable, but I believe this is not the case for their English-language equivalents. "Castilian" in English has the narrower connotation of specifically Castilian dialect; for example, the dialect of Andalusia is not "Castilian", but it is emphatically "Spanish". - Jmabel | Talk 01:44, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In my opinion, claiming that "Castilian" means something different in English than castellano does in Spanish is a little pedantic. The fact of the matter is that both words have multiple meanings in both languages. FilipeS 12:39, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Why don't you just check a dictionary? Just because the two words look the same doesn't mean they do mean the same or are used in the same way in both languages. The American Heritage,  the Merriam-Webster's and the Oxford, all agree in restricting the meaning of Castilian (AHD, M-W, OED) to the dialect of Castile and to the standard form of the Spanish language based on that dialect; restrictions that do not apply to the term Spanish (AHD, M-W, OED), which is defined as "the Romance language spoken in blah blah". Contrast this with the RAE dictionary, which clearly gives one definition of castellano as "la lengua española" (remarking that the term is used especially to contrast the Spanish language with other languages of Spain like Catalan, instead of to contrast the Castilian dialect with the other dialects of Spanish as in English usage). Uaxuctum 18:15, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The RAE dictionary says absolutely nothing about the English usage of the word "Castilian". IMHO, those English dictionaries you mentioned are simply incomplete. FilipeS 19:11, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Uh? I referenced the RAE dictionary for the definition of castellano (that's the Spanish word, not the English one), and I did it precisely to contrast the meaning of this Spanish word with the different meaning of the English word Castilian. OTOH, you can believe whatever you like, but Wikipedia is built on reliable sources, not on the personal opinions of editors, and "those English dictionaries" I referenced are among the foremost published authorities regarding the meaning and usage of English words. Besides, saying that a dictionary like the massive OED, which must be the largest dictionary of any language in the world, is "incomplete" just because it doesn't agree with your non-native, self-styled usage of a word, sounds funny to say the least. Uaxuctum 11:38, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Castilian 

message: Talk:Spanish language/Archive02 looks like it contains a lot of previous discussion on the validity of the US as a Spanish speaking nation, SqueakBox 01:48, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Archive

message: If we include the UN we must (a) do so for every language and (b) include the EU, OAS and any other international organisation where Spanish has official status. Lacking this we must not include the UN either, this particular edit is particularly unwelcome, SqueakBox 18:20, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You seem to be under the misapprehension that every language is an official language of the UN. Rather, "The UN has six official languages (Arabic, Chinese, English, French, Russian, Spanish) but only two working languages (English, French)." United Nations#Languages SamEV 19:21, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I think it's quite important that Spanish is an official language of the UN.  Considering the impact that international bodies like the UN and NATO have had on the state and nature of war in the past 60 years, I'd say it's not just "an organization" (check your anti-UN bias at the door). If we're going to put it anywhere in the box on the right, it goes in the "official language of" section.  If you think there are other important organizations that Spanish is the official language of, those can merit inclusion as well.  Æµ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 21:36, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: UN

message: If the Sephardic Jews spoke Spanish until the holocaust that would indicate they do not speak it now which is what the spoken infobox is exclusively interested in. The fact that Spanish was spoken in the Philippines is also irrelevant as this box is strictly for current usage, SqueakBox 17:32, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, there are Sephardi Jews (as many as 100,000 in Israel) that still speak their distinctive dialect of Spanish to this day, and there are efforts to keep that linguistic legacy alive in their communities (a legacy which moreover is of great significance to the study of the history of Spanish, since Ladino preserves certain archaic features from the medieval period); even though most of the Sephardim now living in Israel have embraced Hebrew. Before their near-extermination in WWII, there were thriving Sephardic communities in many places around the Mediterranean arc, communities where Judæo-Spanish was the main everyday language. The most notable of which was maybe Salonica in Greece (then part of the Ottoman Empire), where the Sephardim were the largest ethnic group, making Spanish the dominant language in the streets of that city for a long time—until 50,000 of them were killed in the holocaust, which virtually wiped them out of the place. As for the Philippines, Spanish was its official language for four centuries, as the islands were part of the Spanish Empire (even the very name "Philippines" refers to the Spanish king Philip II), and consequently had large numbers of native and second-language speakers there, making it of great cultural significance to the islands and influencing Tagalog and other Philippine languages to the point that a substantial part of their nowadays everyday vocabulary is of Spanish origin. The situation changed when the U.S. got hold of the territory at the beginning of the 20th century following the Spanish-American War, and started conscious efforts to erradicate the usage of Spanish from the islands and replace it with English. But even with the anti-Spanish policies put forth by the U.S. occupation, which finally led to the demotion of Spanish to non-official status in 1973, the language is still natively spoken there by an amount of people (including mestizos and ethnic Spaniards born in the Philippines), who speak a distinct dialect and take pride in that historical legacy (to the point of organizing efforts to re-establish it as an official language). A study by the Instituto Cervantes of Manila and the Philippine Academy of the Spanish Language, even puts the actual figure of current Spanish-speakers in the Philippines in not just a few thousands but in the order of up to two or three millions (including 1st-, 2nd-, 3rd- and 4th-language speakers, see the Spanish in the Philippines article for reference). The point is, these two still-existent Spanish-speaking communities, regardless of their (disputable) current size, are not at all comparable to some random scattered clusters of speakers like the bunch of Spanish expatriates in, say, London (who do not speak a distinct dialect nor form a cohessive community with a significant cultural or political influence in the place, and thus there isn't and needn't be an article about "Spanish in London" unlike the very relevant articles on Spanish in the Philippines and Judæo-Spanish); these communities represent the current remnants of two historically important areas of the Spanish-speaking world. The "Spoken in" box should give an idea of the geographical spread of the language, and by leaving the current Spanish-speaking Filipinos and Sephardim out, one is failing to account for two significant areas of the "Hispanosphere" where the language is still spoken and where it has been historically very important (hell, there is even an official Philippine Academy of the Spanish Language belonging to the Association of Spanish Language Academies). Someone having a look at the box for quick reference would be left with the wrong impression that Spanish hasn't significantly reached the Far East or the eastern Mediterranean area. By the way, another significant omission in the box that I have just noticed is the Western Sahara, which was part of Spain until 1975 and where there are still large numbers of Spanish speakers (both native and second-language). Uaxuctum 20:33, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

text: You haven't addressed my point: The communities of Spanish speakers in the Philippines and in Israel may be relatively small (depends on what statistics you take —one study by two official bodies puts the total figure of current Spanish speakers in the Philippines at over 3 million— and on how you look at them —I don't think 100,000 speakers in Israel is precisely a small figure). But those communities regardless of their size are significant, while the one in East London is not. Why? The very fact that there is an official Philippine Academy of the Spanish Language tells of how significant this community is for the language, and for its part the state of Israel created in 1997 an official body (the Autoridad Nasionala del Ladino) to preserve and standardize Judæo-Spanish, which shows that the Spanish speakers form a significant community in Israel. There is substantial academic interest in them; that's why there are individual Wikipedia articles dealing with Spanish in the Philippines and with Judæo-Spanish—they are significant, and in my opinion the infobox should mention all significant communities, not just those with the most speakers. On the other hand, nothing comparable at all can be said about the Spanish speakers in East London. Could you cite a book dealing with the topic of the Spanish-speaking community in London? Are there scholars studying the Spanish dialect spoken in London? Is there an official academic body looking over "Londonian Spanish"? Has Spanish ever been an official language in London? Would anyone ever think of including London in a map of the "Hispanosphere"? No. To start with, there is no such thing as a "Londonian dialect of Spanish". The Spanish speakers in London do not form a significant community for the "Hispanosphere", they are just a bunch of expatriates; so there is no need whatsoever to cite them in the infobox, unlike the Philippine and Sephardic Spanish-speaking communities which are significant for the language. Uaxuctum 00:35, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Saying that Spanish is spoken in the Philippines will not give a false impression at all; firstly because it is a fact (so much so that one of 22 Academies of the Spanish language is that of the Philippines, and documents in Spanish are still admitted by the Philippine courts), secondly because Spanish is culturally very important for the Philippines (having been its official language for four centuries), and thirdly because there is even a movement pushing to re-establish its official status in the country. In fact, what is POV is to arbitrarily leave this notable community of speakers out of the infobox, which creates the false impression that Spanish is not spoken anywhere in Asia. "The Sephardic Jews aren't a nation", so? Firstly, this is disputable (what constitutes a nation?); secondly, the Jews have a state of their own and the Sephardi Jews are part of it; thirdly, it would be absurd to say the criterion to be included in the infobox is to be a nation (what about the Catalans and the Valencians, are they nations? Some say yes, some say not; they certainly do not have a state of their own. Should they be excluded from the infobox in Catalan language if they aren't a "nation"?). You are yet to provide a single serious argument to support your view that these communities are not notable for the Spanish language, while I have already given you plenty of arguments to prove they are notable, arguments that so far you have refused to address. Uaxuctum 01:09, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I live in the Philippines and I have yet to see a Spanish speaker in España Boulevard; I guess the insistence of people here to add the Philippines is pathetic and doesn't change matters, the Philippines is a not a Spanish-speaking country. --Howard the Duck 10:34, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Jews and Filipinos

message: I move that we have a policy of general reversion in regards to the language box to the side.  If anyone wants to make any changes to it they should explain it in the talk page and get consensus first.  It's the general Wikipedia policy to discuss changes first anyway.  I for one will begin reverting with the following edit summary:
::Rv: please discuss changes to the language box in the Talk page.
Æµ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 01:35, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Language box

message: It is not true that most people in Spain say 'castellano' as is drawn in the figure. That figure is in contradiction with what is said in the main text of the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Alx123 (talk • contribs) 16:17, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Is either term capitalized?  I'm under the impression that they are not but there seems to be a slow revert war going on regarding the capitalization.  Æµ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 22:41, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Names of languages in Spanish are not capitalized as in English (and neither are demonyms). The rules on the use of uppercase letters in Spanish are given in fine detail at the RAE's Diccionario Panhispánico de Dudas (see section 6.7) —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 00:53, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spanish is not mainly called 'castellano' in Spain, but 'español' 

message: Please put the yahoo dictionary back up under references, I and other use this to a great extent.  Also someone could readd the dictionary section all together.  Chuck61007 21:49, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: IN case any one wants to know the link is http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dict_en_es/ Chuck61007 03:46, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  readd it 

message: The picture of titled Castellano-Espanol should be removed.  It is flawed.  Every country where Spanish is spoken knows that Spanish is Castellano and vice versa.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dominiward (talk • contribs) 17:48, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture of the map is wrong. 

message: I've temporarily and fully protected the page due to an edit war.  It has to do with putting Philippines in the list of countries were Spanish is spoken.  Does anyone have a reliable source?  So far, the most reliable source is Ethnologue which cites the 1990 Philippine Census as stating that there are 2,456 speakers of Spanish - this is considerably less than .01% of the total Philippine population. I have census figures for 2000 and Spanish is no longer mentioned.  There is a source that has been floating around that says that there are three million speakers of Spanish. However, the website given is not a reliable source.  Any help would be appreciated. Muchísimas gracias. --Chris S. 04:46, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: He vivido toda la vida aquí en Filipinas y nunca, nunca he encontrado ningun grupo de filipinos de cualquier raza que hablan castellano entre sí. The Spanish all of us here know is fragmented, horribly rudimentary, sounds like that of five-year olds, and the "all of us" I'm referring to is, what, a hundred, five hundred people? (Of course I'm just guessing; more reliable figures exist out there. Hopefully.) Even the Spaniards and all those other white people from my hometown of Cebu speak only Cebuano, and English, occasionally Filipino. The thing is, we've never had the need to speak Spanish in everyday life, so recent generations have started to forget it simply because it has never had any practical value. (Remember high-school calculus? I thought so.) We don't live apart from society, after all. We live among other Filipinos, and Filipinos do not speak Spanish. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 210.213.180.32 (talk) 10:00, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I belong to a YahooGroup where there are Filipinos who grew up in Spanish-speaking families. I'd say they are the exception rather than the rule. I speak Spanish but since my parents and grandparents don't speak it, I learned it here in America and not in the Philippines; I, too, have yet to meet a Spanish-speaking Filipino. --Chris S. 00:30, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

text: My father natively spoke Spanish. (My grandma could speak Valenciano.)There are grey haired folks (old folks) who speak it. There is a mass celebrated in Spanish at San Agustin school chapel. Some of my younger friends whom I know can speak it, refuse to do so   anymore. I've travelled to some provinces like Capiz and Bacolod and encountered older folks who speak it to me. I know some people from Iloilo who do.--Jondel 12:58, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed the "3 million speakers" claim once already. It's completely ridiculous; every reliable source says Spanish is spoken by a tiny minority in the Philippines. IIRC the "3 million" website exists to advocate restoration of Spanish in the Philippines and is not representative at all. An edit war between one contributor with a POV and everyone else is not an edit war; it's vandalism by the lone contributor, and it may be reverted without more explanation, as the matter is clear. I'm going to unprotect the page and keep an eye on it. —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 15:58, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

text: PS: Probably due to the same advocacy folks, large parts of Spanish language in the Philippines are indistinguishable from fiction... Some are biased, some are plainly untrue, some are wishful thinking. Please help with that! —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 16:12, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Full protection 

message: Under the spoken in column, instead of putting the general reason of where it's spoken, the country names should be used. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.146.36.50 (talk) 03:28, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Put the actual country names!!! 

message: I have found very few Spanish dictionaries available online. I think it would be good to create a section for Spanish dictionaries. (since Spanish is really important language and everyone needs dictionaries)
I know about these Spanish dictionaries
http://www.wordreference.com/es/translation.asp?tranword=welcome
http://www.diccionarios.com/
http://www.dicts.info/dictlist1.php?l=Spanish
http://www.phrozensmoke.com/projects/pythonol/
http://www.supercable.es/~gweddyn/ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Arael2 (talk • contribs) 15:05, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spanish dictionaries 

message: I have a question for Christopher Sundita? Did You E-mail Dr. Ian Mackenzie, regarding the statistic about the number of Spanish Speakers in the Philippines?? So what is his responds? You can't just removed anything with out discussing it with your fellow wikipideans. Just because your an Administrator, that doesn't mean you have the power to dictate or do what ever you like!. What is the outcome?--Cajamarca Express 1:06 6 March 2007 (UTC)
:To answer your question, yes, I did receive an e-mail from Dr. Mackenzie and he said that he believes he obtained the source from the 1996 edition of an Italian book called Calendario atlante De Agostini (De Agostini's Calendar Atlas).  He did not conduct the research on his own.  Now, it looks like this Calendario is a kind of almanac or encyclopedia.  In any case, the source should be removed until further verification of the source of the info.  It is highly unlikely the the authors of this Italian almanac did their own research and most likely relied on the Philippine census - and the census says three thousand.  
:In any case, I have left a message on the talk page of an Italian Wikipedian named Ermanon who mentioned that he has used this book for sources concerning the Philippines.  Until there's some kind of concrete verification, I will be reverting the edit.
:Now, we could mention that 10% of the Philippine-population had varying levels of fluency in Spanish.  There is a verifiable source for this - the Ford Report.  However, this was taken during the infancy of the US occupation of the Philippines in the early 20th century and thus in no way does it represent the state of Spanish today. --Chris S. 03:13, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Reply: Thank you for the information. -- Cajamarca express 10:33, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  To Chris Sundita, regarding Statistics of Spanish Speakers in the Philippines 

message: Shouldn't this be at Spanish (language)? I never say "I speak the Spanish language", I say "I speak Spanish [language]". Sound OK? I'm not putting up the RM templates because I don't like them and don't care to learn how to use them. -- Chris is me (user/review/talk) 10:41, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The current convention on articles with language names that could also be other things (like an ethnicity, style of music, or nationality) is to put "language" after it.  Obviously when you say "I speak x" putting language after it is redundant but if you said "I know a bit about Spanish" it's not quite clear if you mean the Spanish language or Spanish music, etc.  Æµ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 02:25, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move? 

message: please do not imply that Andorra, Belize and the US are Spanish speaking countries when your sources, obviously, fail to prove this bit of original research. To imply such a thing is to be dishonest to our customers, misinforming them that Belize etc are Spanish speaking countries when we all know they are not, SqueakBox 16:32, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm stating the facts. Plenty of countries are multilingual and will appear atop the infoboxes of several language articles. Just the facts, Squeak. SamEV 16:34, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I have nothing less than the Belizean Census on my side. What do you have to counter that source? SamEV 17:21, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Squeakbox, I won't give up. It's not in me. I'm right and you're not. The fact that you can't seem to accept it is not my problem, as sympathetic a soul as I normally am. SamEV 17:27, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You have also broken the 3rr rule edit warring and defying the consensus of 3 editors, and for an edit that in my opinion misrepresents the situation, SqueakBox 18:28, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And as for your claim that you wont give up pushing that Belize, Andorra and the US are Spanish speaking countruies, and given that you have now attacked 2 editors, one after being warned not to attack, and given that 3 editors oppose you..well thios is a community project, please refresh yourself with how we work here and stop POV pushing your OR assertions, SqueakBox 18:43, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Infobox

message: The example of "pija" is not accurate. Although it it correct that the additional meaning of "posh girl" is employed in Spain, it can be also understood as an informal word for penis. It is an example of polysemy and, therefore, not a good example of variations of the language. 24.125.221.190 01:51, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Its a classic obscenity in Central America, SqueakBox 23:48, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Use of "pija" in Spain

message: Why are the Falkland Islands shown as speaking Spanish when they actually speak English and no other language than English is spoken there? Owen19 12:08, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree! The Ogre 14:03, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Me too! The Falkland Islands are complictaed disputed articles with many Argentinians trying to promote the POV that these islands belong to them, hence the edit I would imagine, SqueakBox 15:04, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: SqueakBox, this has nothing to do with Argentina. The image should be fixed because (probably) no sinle person at the islands knows a word in Spanish. --Mariano(t/c) 20:10, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

text: You may be correct. When the Argentinians invaded the islands they tried to force people to speak Spanish and many Argentinians hugely resent that the falklanders dont speak Spanish. obviously therre is no need to emntion them, my point being it was likely a POV edit to promote the Argentinian sovereignty claim, SqueakBox 20:13, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Falkland Islands

message: Please avoid making false claims when edit warring, SqueakBox 21:01, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I find your behavior very dissapointing. An experienced, adult Wikipedian edit-warring like this. Please present counters to the information I show in the article. But please refrain from misrepresenting information that is attributed and from reliable sources and presented correctly. SamEV 21:30, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, you are in the wrong here. Do not ever again make false claims of vandalism in edit summaries. Discuss content disputes here.--Jersey Devil 21:36, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: He's pushing his POV even though he has no sources to support him. Does that matter? SamEV 21:53, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've moved the dispute on the infobox back to the bottom of the page.  Instead of starting an entirely new discussion, why don't we continue the debate in that section where we left off?  There were several proposed compromises to this situation but unfortunately discussion died before an agerement was reached on any of them.  SpiderMMB 22:48, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fake vandalism claims

message: Edit wars are disruptive by their own nature and give wikipedia a bad name. There are other ways to sort out this kind of disputes. I do realise there are strong feelings about this issue but reverting will not help anyone to push their case, it would just get editors to block to avoid more disruption to this article. Please reconsider your actions. Regards, --Asteriontalk 22:41, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: A piece of advice

message: It is also the second most widely spoken language in the United States and arguably the most popular foreign language for study in US schools and Universities. 
If Spanish is the second most widely spoken language in the US then how can it be the most popular FOREIGN language for study. According to the article Spanish has always been spoken in the USA and is spoken by an increasing number of people. You have to choose between the two points of view! It can't be foreign and native at the same time!
The US is primarily an English speaking country, so of course Spanish ios treated as a foreign language, SqueakBox 02:51, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Pretty much in agreement with SB. And no, I am hispanic, from the U.S. and speak spanish and there is no "Anglo-bias" in calling Spanish a foreign language (which is what you are insinuating in your comment).--Jersey Devil 02:55, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: US bias??

message: Can anyone tell me why Castilian was chosen in the Constitution of 1978 as the national language of Spain ahead of Euskara, Gallego and Catalan?
:Because it was the only language that was spoken by everyone in Spain? FilipeS 19:18, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why Castilian? 

message: Perhaps I am being too politically correct but I was concerned about the use of the term "Hispanic" in the "Total number of Spanish speakers" section. Obviously "hispanic" is a somewhat loaded term with lots of uses and meanings. It can be used to mean several different geographic definitions, different ethnic definitions, Spanish-speaking, and sometimes other things. This section seems to be using it in the sense of countries where Spanish is the primary language. But even if what is meant here is probably obvious to most readers, I am inclined to say that the varied meaning of this term makes the usage a little strange and potentially offensive (e.g. saying the U.S. is "non-hispanic" despite the large population of Spanish speakers would be offensive to some). As such this use of the term seems non-encyclopedic. Perhaps different terminology is appropriate?
--Mcorazao 03:48, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. I changed the titles to "Countries where Spanish is official" and "Countries where Spanish is not official" a few days back, but somehow it got reverted... FilipeS 20:28, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Another option would be Hispanophone countries... FilipeS 22:17, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hispanic countries 

message: Hey, I was wondering if I could some opinions from some of you who do not speak spanish as a primary language, ok?
So do any of you think that if learning spanish for the first time is stressful? Many of my friends and I are taking
Spanish 1 as a foreign language this year and many of us think it is stressful, are we the only ones?? 69.4.196.150 00:38, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Highly, pero vale la pena, lol, SqueakBox 00:41, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Stress

message: I am trying to learn Spanish on my own this summer so that I can satisfy a foreign language requirement for my Bachelor's degree. Obviously, I will need to take a test for this. I am going to purchase the Rosetta Stone Spanish couse, but I am confused as to which one to purchase. They offer two types, one being Spanish of Latin America, and the second type is Spanish of Spain. Can anyone tell me which type I need?
:Well, if you're an American, I'd suggest getting the Latin American version; if you're from Europe, probably the Spanish from Spain version. They're not wildly different, though, so it shouldn't really matter which one you choose to study--the test probably wouldn't be much harder for you either way. --Miskwito 22:06, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Which type of Spanish is taught in school?