Talk:Carpi (people)

message: I eliminate detalied descriptions (including ones related with anglo-saxon) of archeological talks, is not the place in the article, is enough to say that some scholars, as Niculescu, debate against some views on archeological findings, and i find as well weird you eliminated one of Renfrew statements i read somewhere before at you, that some cultural habits and findings are a indication of ethnicity (as burial for eg.). Later migrations (as Slavs or Turkis peoples) are not as well in any conection with the peoples we talk about, and i said about the migrtaions all over the Roman Empire on "Costoboci" talk page. As well "Goths" was a peoples with mixed and fluid ethnicity during time, and at least during their "danubian" period (but in lesser degree after as well) they had a major Dacian component and influence, so didnt change much in ethnic composition of the area, quite contrary, long after they leaved the area they consider Dacian (Getae) as their ancestors (see Cassiodorus writings at the request of Teodoric the Great, Jordanes, and, independent of him, Isidor from Seville)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.116.211.230 (talk) 08:30, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  New paragraph 

message: Dacians are marked with the same color as Slavs which is completely incorrect and unfortunate. While Costoboci and Carpi, considered by most historians as Dacian, are in a blue/uncertain color. While Bastarnae who are a Celtic-Germanic mix with possible Dacian elements is marked as Germanic for sure. This is raising serious questions about the map and its neutrality. I suggest at least a distinct Dacian color and section in the legend. The map is here: :commons:File:Roman Empire 125.png and here :commons:File:Roman Empire 125.svg. Note that util November 19, 2010, Dacians were depicted using a proper, different color. Something dubious happened at that time. --Codrin.B (talk) 22:08, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dacians as Slavs, Costoboci uncertain on the Roman Empire Map? 

message: While I welcome the efforts of User:EraNavigator on this subject, I am afraid that a lot of his work is plagued with original research and it is not written from a neutral point of view. I am looking forward to read books by EraNavigator in the future, if he chooses to write his ideas, but Wikipedia is not the place for such activities. I welcome ideas and suggestions on this, but I believe this article needs some rework and lot of external, neutral reviewers, as well as expert advice. --Codrin.B (talk) 01:25, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Respect neutrality and no original research principles 

message: Hello from WikiProject Dacia!
Since there are so many religious wars going on at the moment around Dacians and their language, we are proposing to all involved to use their creativity, knowledge and energy in creating separate articles for different language affinities. Stop deleting and reverting and start creating!
Instead, expand or create the articles listed at the WikiProject Dacia's Current Collaboration, using as much academic evidence you can gather.
Once these separate articles went through a lot of scrutiny and have reached a good article status, we can discuss the addition of links to the various theories and potentially even add sections about them in the Dacian language and Dacian tribes articles.
Let the Daciada begin! Thanks for your support!
--Codrin.B (talk) 16:54, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dacian language collaboration 

message: Please provide arguments for removing the  templates from the paragraphs that clearly need citations. Thanks.
:I want to raise the issue of the multiple-tags that you attached to the articles Carpi (people) and Costoboci. While I don't claim that these articles are perfect and cannot be improved, the tags seem unwarranted. Most of the citation tags were (wrongly) placed in the summary sections, where citations are not necessary if the statements in question are referenced in the main text. The main text itself is fully referenced, with both ancient and modern sources (20 secondary modern sources in Carpi alone). The neutrality is only disputed by those who think that neutrality requires support for the Daco-Roman continuity theory. If you read through the articles again, you will see thatr all theories are given a fair hearing. The summaries are certainly not long in relation to the main text. As for confusion for readers, this has only been caused by arbitrary removals of text by Anonymous editor, damaging the text's coherence. The consequence of sticking all those tags is to make the articles appear really poor-quality, which is a travesty: if you look at the articles on the same subjects in other languages, you will see that the English ones are far and away superior and more comprehensive. I therefore think that you should remove the tags. You should rely on your own reading of the articles, not on the complaints of others. Regards EraNavigator (talk) 18:40, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I have done: see edit history. Refs are not necessary in the summary if the same statements are referenced in the main text. EraNavigator (talk) 18:44, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  I put your other answer here. Please reply on corresponding article pages, so others can see. If those statements are indeed cited in the main text, please add references to the same books the paragraphs which miss citations. You have to do this, especially in a highly controversial article like this one. I appreciate your work, but please don't try to accuse others of supporting certain theories. You obviously support your own with a lot of vehemence. Everyone is entitled to their own believes, but the key is to stay neutral and not introduce original research or unreliable sources. Also, please refrain from arrogant comments in the change history of the article since it is discouraged by policies, and common sense. Please avoid reverts or getting close to an edit war. Given the high controversy of the article and the conflict already started (partially by your edits), I suggest you stop doing any radical changes to this article without proposing the changes on the talk page and reaching agreement. Otherwise you encourage the conflict and reverts. The same goes for the Costoboci and Roman Empire map. The fact that both Romanians and Italians are so hot blooded it should give you a hint to Roman continuity at least ;-) Thanks. --Codrin.B (talk) 18:57, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of citation needed templates from paragraphs that need citations 

message: Given the highly controversial theories regarding this subject, the amount of edit wars and the risk for conflict, I kindly suggest to use a user space or the WikiProject Dacia drafts space, until the article is ready for prime time and a consensus is reached. You can certainly ask for reviews at the user/draft space. Thanks for your hard work and continued cooperation.--Codrin.B (talk) 19:34, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Using the [[Help:Userspace_draft|user space]] or [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Dacia/Drafts|WikiProject Dacia drafts space]] for high conflict articles 

message: With all these labels and discussions I am not sure if we are allowed to provide any other input e.g. citations. Therefore, I add here something that could help clearing this section.
According to Tomaschek, (1883, Les restes de la langue dace in "Le Museon Revue Internationale Volume 2, Louvain, page 403)  'Carpathian is a Dacian name with uncertain etymology'. He proposed... it is derived from kar 'cut' and  pa-causative Carpathians would mean eventually 'chain of cut / rugged mountains'(?). In the same paragraph he says:... Karpidai were of  Dacian origin (the Scythians called them Kalpidai) He mentions an homonymous place that Ptolemy located east of the Haemus and also the Carpodacians of the Zosimus ...
"...CARPATA, nom dace de l'immense chaîne des Alpes au Nord, à l'Est et au Sud, qui est coupée par de nombreuses passes et vallées; étymologie incertaine; de kar, couper pa, causatif—chaîne de mootagnes découpées? Il est certain que les Kaρπίδάι étaient d'origine dace (les Scythes les appelaient Kαλιπιδάι), et au temps des Goths nous rencontrons encore la peuplade des Kaρποδάχάι qui vivait libre dans les montagnes (Zosime); à l'Est de l'Hémus Ptolémée nomme aussi un endroit Kaρπουδαιμου..."
His proposal  had been accepted by Joseph Van Den Gheyn, S.J. 1885, LES POPULATIONS DANUBIENNES - ÉTUDES D'ETHNOGRAPHIE COMPARÉE (l), Revue des questions scientifiques, Volumes 17-18, By Société scientifique de Bruxelles, Union catholique des scientifiques français, Page 385
"...L'élément Carp qui apparaît dans leur nom semble commun à plusieurs termes des dialectes de la Dacie et de la Thrace. Qu'on se rappelle Carpata, nom dace de l'immense chaîne des Alpes. Il y avait en outre la tribu des Carpi à l'ouest des Carpathes, les Kaρπίδάι d'origine dace que les Scythes appelaient Kαλιπιδάι. L'historien Zosime, au temps des Goths, signale encore la peuplade des Kaρποδάχάι et, à l'est de l'Hémus, Ptolémée indique un endroit nommé Kaρπουδαιμου. Dans la mer Égée les anciens géographes plaçaient une île nommée Karpathos. Enfin Hésychius nous apprend que les Thraces eux-mêmes étaient souvent désignés sous le nom de Karpontiens..."
Boldwin (talk) 20:18, 20 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name etymology 

message: This page has a lot of problems. But "a possible argument against the Carpi's proposed Dacian ethnicity is that Roman emperors did not use the long-established cognomen ex virtute Dacicus Maximus" looks also like original research. The argument "such titles were ethnographic, not geographical (i.e. Dacicus meant 'victorious over the Dacians', not 'victorious in Dacia')" is outdated and false. In the 2nd edition of CAH XII there's no such claim on page 140, note 1. However in this volume on p. 471 we read "How far the Romans pursued their defeated enemy is unknown, but Galerius, since he rejoined his Augustus Diocletian in Nisibis, and from an inscription on a triumphal arch in Thessalonica where he is called Persicus Maximus, Armeniacus, Medicus and Adiabenicus, might be assumed to have campaigned in Armenia and Media, as well as Adiabene which is next to the territory of Nisibis." Daizus (talk) 14:42, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  original / outdated research 

message: "Also, it had been suggested that Carpathian Mountains may derive from the Sanskrit root “kar” 'cut' that would give the meaning of ‘rugged mountains’."
Surely, what is meant here is the Indo-European *(s)ker- root, which is already mentioned above. Sanskrit was not spoken near this area. I suggest deleting this sentence. --Thathánka Íyotake (talk) 13:46, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Indo-European, not Sanskrit 

message: it's not carpi, like carpe diem, it's karpi like slavic karpa (a rock). also it's not the carpathians. it's karpati (the rocky mountains). you english speaking peoples translate everything beyond recognition.89.205.59.148 (talk) 10:41, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Karpi, not carpi

message: Müller (1883), so a very old source, is quoted in favour of the mountains bearing a Slavic-origin name. How can that be even considered, when Claudius Ptolemy names them Karpátēs around 150 and the Slavs were at that time nowhere near the Carpathians? Or are there still accepted theories about an earlier migration of the Slavs, and how reliable are they? The 1880s were a time of national movements and science often did bend over backwards to serve nationalistic agendas. I don't know anything about Müller and his work - is he still a RS? Arminden (talk) 12:21, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etymology: Slavic origin an anachronism?