Talk:Scrapple

message: I see my change of May 2009 has been reversed. You wanted a source indicating that scrapple is German. Here is a copy of a text from 1869 on the subject. http://www.archive.org/stream/pennsylvaniadutc00gibbiala/pennsylvaniadutc00gibbiala_djvu.txt Kevinm1984 (talk) 20:09, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The 181 page book "Pennsylvania Dutch" (published in 1872) that you provided a link to is absolutely fascinating reading.  In my opinion it is required reading for anyone at all interested in a detailed, up close and personal insight and reference to Amish/Mennonite history, and their life in America up until the date the book was published.  On pages 45-46 the author provides us with a brief, ballpark description of the difference between 'scrapple' and 'pawn-haus'.  Panhas is certainly German in origin; the recipe and cooking instructions are in "Praktishes Kochbuch für die Deuteschen in Amerika" (Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 1879), pages 357 and 87 respectively.  However, it's entirely possible that the term "scrabble" is a derivative of the Dutch verb "schrappen", which means to scrape, cut, or chop. When used in the context of butchering, the cutting and scraping in the deboning operation would generate small pieces, or "scrapes"/"scraps", of meat.  Keep in mind also that in Dutch 'sch__' is pronounced as 'sk__', as in "school" and "schedule".  So "schrappen" would be pronounced as "skrappen", not "shroppen" as it might seemto anyone not familiar with the language.  And it's very clear from your reference that the Mennonites spent a considerable length of time in the relative safety of Holland after they fled Germany (and Switzerland) before Wm. Penn was able to start bringing them to America.  And they also passed through Dutch Delaware on their way to their lands in Lancaster County.  In my opinion, attributing the source of the word "scrapple" to the Pennsylvania Germans is incorrect; they use/used the word, but they didn't invent it.  Besides that, the word certainly isn't unique; the Oxford English Dictionary has a 1354 AD entry referencing the word "scrapple" to 'scraping', and an 1825 AD reference (and subsequent entries) referencing "scrapple" as meaning to rake or scrape.  And for another thing, scrapple-like cooked cereal with meat in a mush combinations were not 'invented' in Germany; that combination is commonly found in foods of many other countries.  Thanks again for your very fine link. K. Kellogg-Smith (talk) 06:58, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  German or Dutch 

message: When I was young Scrapple was available in canned form, though I haven't seen it on the shelf in years and can't find any current makers. It tasted OK (for Scrapple) but looked uncomfortably like canned dog food. Saxophobia (talk) 14:21, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Canned Scrapple 

message: "the Habbersett's page says "Dutch ... from Holland". Please do not change to "German"... user-added note: the Pennsylvania Dutch were mostly from Germany and Switzerland but also from "the Low Countries" which does include modern Holland. Added-added note: not "Pennsylvania Dutch", they were real Dutch from HOLLAND; see article on New Netherland; the Pennsylvania Dutch came much later; added-added-added note: the Habbersett link is no longer there; I believe it was wrong to refer to the "Dutch ... from Holland," as scrapple has always been a German "Pennsylvania Deutsch" recipe and the Germans who settled in PA were mostly from the southwest of Germany and/or Switzerland"
Why are we using the Habbersett page as a source in any case? Not only does it not work, it doesn't meet our criteria at WP:RS. We should be using sources such as  (The Oxford Companion to American Food and Drink),  Dougweller (talk) 21:44, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moving hidden note here 

message: I'm wondering if the lede needs to be clearer, and if saying Scrapple is a type of meat-and-grain sausage or meat-and-grain mush would be more clear than describing it simply as a mush?  It's like goetta and haggis -- unique in that they're all ground- or scrap-meat and grain combinations that are deliberate dish-of-poverty substitutes for sausage.  I think this should be maybe the first step in describing it to people who don't know what it is? valereee (talk) 10:44, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  A "meat-and-grain sausage" or "meat-and-grain mush"? 

message: If the entire head is used, then can one contract CJD from eating it?
66.82.144.144 (talk) 10:27, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  hog's head? 

message: User:Heteren added this text:"The dish is very similar to the Dutch dish Balkenbrij and the German dish Panhas, from where the Pennsylvania Dutch word 'Pannhaas' (literally meaning 'pan hare') is derived. 'Panhas' most likely is derived from 'pfann' (pan) and Harst, meaning 'fried meat'. Local variations have pigs blood added as thickener, turning the dish more towards black pudding'De Dikke Van Dam, Nijgh & Ditmar, Amsterdam 2006, ISBN 90 388 1435 6, Pages 67 - 68." (Note the author is Johannes van Dam}.
I'm pretty sure that this source doesn't discuss scrapple. I've asked Heteren for a quote from it to show it does. Meanwhile, see this source which is based on the same book and discusses balkenbrij, saying it is also known as karboet, tuet or pannas and that "It is similar to American scrapple and closely related to German panhas (or pannas) and möppkenbrot." So this agrees with Heteren but although I very much love the website I'm not convinced it's a reliable source by our criteria.
So perhaps we can find a better source asserting this similarity. Meanwhile I'd still like Heteren's comments about the source added.  what do you think? Doug Weller talk 10:22, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I use Spruce Eats often and consider it a trusted recipe source, but I'm not sure it rises to the level of 'reliable source.' Scrapple may very well have much in common with balkenbrij, but it's also got a lot in common with multiple other similar European mush-sausages and other similar US mush-sausages that were developed independently such as livermush and goetta. Goetta was almost certainly based on a similar German dish. valereee (talk) 13:44, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use of DeDikkeVanDam:van aardappel tot zwezerik 

message: The source Johannes van Dam, and basically any other source, states that scrapple is SIMILAR to the Dutch Balkenbrij and SIMILAR to the German panhas and SIMILAR to (even though a bit more distant) the Scottish/British haggis and black pudding. The origins of scrapple lie is the eastern boarder region of The Netherlands (the old Saxony, which is now Groningen, Drenthe, Gelderland, Limburg) and the western boarder of Germany, which is also the old Saxony and now Nordrhein-Westfahlen, Lower-Saxony and Bremen. But, Sweden, Denmark and Finland know versions of it as well, This rural area is for over 5000 years farming area where crops are harvested and animals where being kept. When animals are slaughtered before the winter all bits where used. The Dutch 'Balkenbrij' (balk = stomach, brij = porridge) is originally an animal's stomach filled with offal and then cooked, but it can also be a pigs head being cooked in water. The offal or pigs head is removed from the broth and made into products liverwurst and 'zure zult' or 'hoofdkaas', which translates to 'head cheese' or 'brawn', and with vinegar added 'souse'. The remaining broth is thickened with wheat and poured into a bowl. Slices of this are than fried in a pan and eaten with bread. The more rich a farmer was the more meat was left in the balkenbrij/panhas. The northern part of the Dutch/German boarder added raisins or plum (white balkenbrij/panhas), the southern region added blood (dark balkenbrij/panhas). In the end, all these products from different countries are the same: a meat jelly, with more or less meat left in, that is either eaten straight (brawn), or fried. Scrapple is exactly the same as balkenbrij/panhas, but mostly with the wheat replaced by corn. This makes scrapple a bit less firm when fried. Dutch sources for this are the aforementioned 'Dikke van Dam', 'Eten door de eeuwen' by renowned author Wina Born (1989, ISBN 9789024645473), 'Het ultieme recept' by Torgny Lindgren (2005, ISBN 90-234-1770-4). Google Balkenbrij or panhas and you get 100's of links. Ps Balkenbrij is hardly eaten anymore in the Netherlands, and also not available anymore from Dutch butchers. There is one restaurant in Amsterdam 'Rijssel' that serves it during winter season, and they have uploaded clip on how to make it on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltYq9CFC1LQ . Heteren (talk) 09:19, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I think what you are trying to argue is that Balkenbrij is the forerunner to all such similar dishes? valereee (talk) 15:17, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin of Balkenbrij/panhas/scrapple 

message: Yes, panhas is originally European.
This article, however, is about scrapple, which is a variety of panhas originating in the United States. The sources cited make this clear. If you disagree, I invite you to consider where Europeans would have gotten cornmeal. No cornmeal, no scrapple. - SummerPhDv2.0 17:30, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Country of origin 

message: "everything but the oink" is mentioned two times in the Wiki page. Maybe someone should decide which instance to remove and keep only one. 
My grandpa used to say they used every part of the pig - "everything but the squeal"  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 44mm16cm (talk • contribs) 06:20, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  "everything but the oink"