Talk:Little Englander

message: It is a pity that "Little Englander" has been distorted from its original meaning. It seeems there is a need for a phrase that suggests someone who advocates Britain pursuing a pacific and internationalist foreign policy (in the style of e.g. Richard Cobden) and an attitude of good-will and fellowship on the part of England and the English towards the Celtic nations of the British-Irish Islands.
:Wikipedia is not, however, in the business of coining phrases or trying to influence usage. Charles Matthews 16:04, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Change in meaning

message: Nothing wrong with this article as far as I'm concerned.  Why doesn't the person who flagged this article explain his reason for doing so? Maikel 02:47, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality 

message: The term little Englander was used way before the 1890s, it was used to denote the policy of the period 1820-1870, when Disraeli called the colonies millstones around the neck of England and many argued that the colonies should be emancipated and not supported through the English treasury. The colonies were not taxed, and they were bound by no trade agreements to Britain, and many questioned the benefit of this arrangement...
----  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.230.161.161 (talk) 08:38, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Earlier than the Boer war.. 

message: Even though the Wikipedia is not various businesses, these type of sentences do give a hint at a larger intention.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.214.20.191 (talk) 11:41, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  are often accused of being "ignorant" and "boorish".? 

message: Hmmm, good question. 79.66.198.244 (talk) 16:20, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is there a Brexit connection? 

message: The claim that it did, which has now made its way to the first sentence of this article, was added by @Foofbun in https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Little_Englander&diff=prev&oldid=727796008#mw-diffpage-visualdiff-cite_note-1, citing a book called the Historical Dictionary of the British Empire, Volume 2. Alas, I cannot find a copy of that book to check what it has to say on the matter. I view this claim with doubt because:
* the canonical examples of Little Englanders I seem to come across again and again when I try to research this topic, like William Gladstone and Richard Cobden, were not born until the 19th century
* many sources even specifically say that the term referred to members of the Liberal party who supported independence for the colonies, but the Liberal Party wasn't founded until 1859
* I have not stumbled across any quotes from the 18th century using the term  when I Google for them, nor any historical figures alive in the 18th century who are described, even retroactively, as Little Englanders
* I can't find any other source saying the term was used in the 18th century if I google for `"little englander" "18th century"`
I am reluctant to remove the mention of the 18th century from the article without consensus, since I am in no way a historian nor any kind of expert on this topic, I haven't found any sources definitively stating that usage of the term only began in the 19th century, and I haven't yet had a chance to see what @Foofbun's source has to say about the matter. (I think I'd have to pay a visit to the British Library if I wanted to get a look at that book.) Nonetheless, I find myself suspicious that we're saying something that simply isn't true.
What are others' thoughts? Does anyone feel able to definitively say, one way or the other, what the truth of the matter is? ExplodingCabbage (talk) 13:19, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: The OED gives "OED's earliest evidence for Little Englandism is from 1887, in the writing of E. W. Watkin." Not the same term , but close. All the best: Rich Farmbrough 14:38, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Did the term really exist in the 18th century?