Talk:Stereotypes of Indigenous peoples of Canada and the United States

message: The article is focused on a very small group. It doesn't even include all of the indigenous people in North America, never mind any other.
Please someone explain why or how this is different from other kinds of stereotyping or more important.
If the Stereotypes about indigenous peoples of North America rate their own article, why not the Stereotypes of [insert any people here] as well?
Examples: Romani people, Frisians, Kurds, any of the 55 ethnic minorities in China...
77.176.116.54 (talk) 10:33, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Special importance?

message: Hello.  This page is directly copied/pasted from Ethnic stereotypes in American media.  I created it because I believed this subtopic deserves its own focused page.  Also, I want this new article to be able to explore racial stereotyping in all areas of public consciousness, not confined to just "media."  Since it's basically a direct copy/paste it is obviously in need of extensive editing to make it an independent article, so please contribute.  Thanks!  --Drenched 19:44, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Comment

message: i say we should divide the stereotypes of first nations peoples into the following categories: North american native americans, mesoamerican native americans, caribbean indians, and rainforest indians —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.175.1.108 (talk) 17:12, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  categories of first nations 

message: :Image:Dying Indian man Drums Across the River 1954 film.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
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BetacommandBot (talk) 21:43, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Dying Indian man Drums Across the River 1954 film.JPG

message: American Indians or Native Americans (there's a huge debate among the NA/NDN community on what's the proper title of the peoples) continously struggle with stereotypes: mainly the negative kind (i.e. drinking, drug addiction, welfare dependency etc.), exaggerated by the western movies, or propagated by early 20th century scientific racism of a "defeated, dying" race. What gets me is many white Americans claim American Indian ancestry instead of lets' say African-American or "black" ancestry in the distant part of their genealogical family trees. But for those of 1/4th or around that part of the blood quantum degree law, to exhibit ethnoracial or anthrophysical American Indian traits will invite some sort of racism, discrimination and marginalization by the white majority whom may notice "you don't look white, you're not one of us" mentality. Note the social stigmas around Half-breeds of white and Native American ancestry in both white society and among some Native American tribes may exclude them from acceptance or in tribal membership. + Mike D 26 (talk) 15:56, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Racism against Native Americans 

message: The link for citation 7 is broken - the page can no longer be found  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Edoroth (talk • contribs) 00:29, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: American Indians are able to form beards, but scientists for decades studied and analyzed the variation for each indigenous tribe in North or South America. Same misconception of "beardless men" goes to East Asians, although you can see photos of mustached and some bearded men in the Japanese samurais, the army and otherwise. Genetics among groups of people, such as European, African, Asiatic and American Indians, have determined the racial appearance while the fact remains there's only one human race regardless of their skin color or whatever. Several American Indian tribes encouraged young males after they hit puberty to remove any face hair by plucking it out...that's a valid explanation of white Europeans came to notice the men of those certain tribes had no face hair roots! Epicanthic folds are indicators of distant Asiatic ancestry in European/Caucasian peoples, but again these sort of anthrophysical traits can develop on their own or hadn't completely died out over the centuries or eons (why is it more common among East Asians?), but the Bushmen or !Ngumas in southern Africa have a high presence of epicanthic eyefolds, allegedly not a "common" trait associated with the Africoid race.+ Mike D 26 (talk) 15:51, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Utter nonsense, It is a well-established fact that prior to European contact, Amerindian populations-with well-noted exceptions, such as many Pacific Northwestern groups- generally lacked significant facial hair. Hair on the face was often perceived as anomolous, and in Andean and mesoamerican cultures, tweezers (used to remove the odd stray hair) are among the most common metal implements to appear in the archaeological record. as far as epicanthal folds among the Bushmen are concerned, It is likely that the East Asian trait is actually descended from the ancestors of the Bushmen, who have the oldest known mitochondrial DNA markers of any human group.
Unless this dubious material has a source it ought to be removed completely Angustifolium (talk) 03:47, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

text: See also this  on the Aché, a Paraguayan group of Indians who show no genetic evidence of European or African heritage but have body hair, heavy beards, light skin, etc. []  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dougweller (talk • contribs) 16:11, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Facial Hair

message: I am collecting sources here, if anyone else wants to use them, great.FriendlyFred (talk) 12:37, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Articles 

message: I've removed this as a misrepresentation of the source.. The first sentence used the word save, not in the source. The second sentence was "The Native American hero remains a terrorist in the mind of mainstream America." The article doesn't suggest this in any way. It calls Geronimo an icon, and it doesn't call him a terrorist. Do I now have to go through all the rest of the new edits? Dougweller (talk) 15:13, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The citation does talk about the association of Geronimo with terrorism. I have added a minimal restatement of the source, with a link to the WP article on the subject, which I did not know about before.FriendlyFred (talk) 20:03, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Not the citation does not, although it mentions some Facebook posts that relate to terrorism, but that's not the same thing at all. Dougweller (talk) 21:19, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mention of Geronimo misrepresented the source 

message: I have never seen anything that shows eskimo at the south pole. It also is unreferenced. Reedman72  (talk) 19:12, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eskimo on the south pole 

message: :Native Americans are perceived as having one identical look, one certain shade of skin color as well as having only straight, black hair.
Considering that, notwithstanding the existence of mixed-race individuals identifying as Native American nowadays, Native Americans originally universally belong to the East Asian ("Mongoloid") type, associated with Y-DNA haplogroup C-M217, at least the hair part is no more a stereotype than the perception that indigenous Chinese people have naturally straight black hair and that Zulu people have dark skin and naturally black, tightly coiled afro-textured hair. It's an accurate observation that has virtually no exceptions that are not easily explained (such as mixed-race individuals accepted into the ethnic group or albinism). (Full) Native American ancestry correlates with these characteristics extremely reliably, this and similar correlations being, after all, the basis of racial classifications.
What is an inaccurate stereotype is, for example, the perception that Sami people generally look East Asian (in fact, there might not be a single Sami who looks East Asian, unless they have known recent East Asian ancestry; in fact, many if not most Sami actually look typically Scandinavian), that Germans are always blond and native Irish people red-haired, or that Native Americans always sport feathers and mohawk hairstyles, which is what the citation given really addresses. (Or that Chinese people literally have yellow and Native Americans red skin, for that matter.) But not every generalisation is wrong, even if it may not apply in 100% of cases (for some reason or another). --Florian Blaschke (talk) 19:39, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Straight black hair 

message: I found the phrasing of part of the cultural misconceptions section objectionable.
"Native American women are perceived as being sexually available and willing to have intercourse with any and every man. Such misconceptions lead to murder, rape and violence of Native American women and girls by non-Native men."
I think the first sentence here sounds unprofessional and needs to be rephrased. Firstly, saying "Native American women are perceived" sounds too general and absolute. It makes it sound as if literally everybody thinks this is the case, which is definitely not true. Secondly, I think the phrase "sexually available and willing to have intercourse with any and every man" goes well beyond what the source is saying.I also think it sounds a bit vulgar and generally unprofessional. The second sentence is more or less supported by the source and reasonably phrased.
I propose changing it to something like 
"Native American women are frequently sexually objectified and are often stereotyped as being promiscuous.  Such misconceptions lead to murder, rape and violence of Native American women and girls by non-Native men."
 
I think this is closer to what the source is saying.
:Your rephrasing is fine.FriendlyFred (talk) 18:42, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Phrasing in cultural misconception section 

message: I edited a section on indigenous women in Canada that had a malicious racial bias that wouldn't be tolerated elsewhere.
* Article said "The effect that stereotyping has had on Indigenous women is one of the main reasons why non-Indigenous people (mainly Euro-Canadian men) commit violent crimes of hate towards First Nations women and girls."
Source said "Aboriginal women have confronted unique problems stemming from stereotypes of them perpetuated by non-Aboriginal men since contact". Did not give statistics of how many are European or not
*Article said "Because Aboriginal women have been associated with images of the "Indian Princess" and "Squaw" a majority of non-Indigenous people believe that Aboriginal women are dirty, promiscuous, overtly sexualized, which makes these women vulnerable to violent assaults"
Source says absolutely nothing about "majority", and how could anybody ever know? Polling?
*Article said "Indigenous women make up approximately 4% of Canada's population, and are over represented among the missing and murdered women, highlighting that affect that colonial images have had on North American beliefs on Aboriginal women today. It has been found in September 2013, that approximately 1,017 Aboriginal women have been murdered, which is 16% of all homicides in Canada.
Source has the statistics, but not the WP:SYNTH between stereotypes and these crime figures. The source says "The removal of Aboriginal people from their land, their placement on reserves and the loss of the traditional male roles of hunter-provider have caused role conflicts, frustration and anger which often finds its outlet in violence against women." and "High rates of domestic violence afflict Aboriginal women throughout North America...the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry of Manitoba (1990) noted that one in three Aboriginal women suffered abuse at the hands of her partner". Do you really honestly think that it's white men who are doing all this violence, or even the majority of it? This sounds just like the KKK or BNP saying that all white girls are raped by blacks or Muslims, when anywhere in the world it's always family members and partners who are most likely abusers. Anarcho-authoritarian (talk) 02:02, 21 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Women in Canada 

message: This article has a serious omission, stereotypes regarding the indigenous peoples of Mexico, both within Mexico and within Canada and the United States.-WriterArtistDC (talk) 21:37, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mexico 

message: Despite the "Canada" in the title, much of the article covers stereotypes specific to Americans, or mentions the Federal government of the United States and its treaties. We need a better coverage of the situation in Canada.Dimadick (talk) 14:47, 20 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, certainly; but although I changed the name, this article is not within my current plans for editing at this time. However, I did a brief search of possible sources, the result being listed at User:WriterArtistDC/scratch2#First_Nations_Canada. Unfortunately access to a university library would be needed to read these articles.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 20:56, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Canada 

message: Someone might want to check to see the text still matches the source, which is actually here. I've spotted one instance in which it clearly doesn't. It's possible the reference was moved at some point - I've seen that happen. Doug Weller talk 19:24, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  "KAPPAN" (Walter C. Fleming) source 

message: With the number of Indian casinos, there has been a noted rise in compulsive gambling among Native Americans. Does that bear fruit, or the simple issue of Indian gambling in and of itself is a stereotype? Shows such as Family Guy and the Simpsons have often portrayed Indians are gamblers. 2601:140:8D00:33D0:3DD0:D1F4:CC16:78C0 (talk) 00:25, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Compulsive gambling 

message: The trend is toward capitalization of Indigenous when it refers to people, which would mean a move/rename of this and several other articles.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 18:10, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. We should move this to Stereotypes of Indigenous peoples of Canada and the United States. If you want to start of the other articles needing these moves over at the talk page of WP:NDN, that would be a good place to coordinate it. If there are no objections, we can get on this. - CorbieVreccan ☊ ☼ 19:03, 25 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Capitalization of Indigenous 

message: I kind of think that the lede image -- an old Cleveland Indians logo -- does not represent accurately stereotype of Native Americans. The primary elements are a huge grin and a large hooked nose. It's an offensive cariacture, sure, but I pretty much don't think of either of those when I think of such stereotype and I don't suppose most people do
Bloodthirsty savage, drunkard, howling horse warrior, chief in full feathered headdress (a rarity in real life I think), savvy tracker, noble savage in touch with nature, scalper, ignorant savage, defeated peoples... these are more representational of Native American stereotypes, I would think 
 
So I replaced the image with one of a "bloodthirsty savage" type. Other free images that are also possible would include :File:The Death of Jane McCrea John Vanderlyn 1804.jpeg (more assaulting of white women), :File:Native American art detail, School Begins (Puck Magazine 1-25-1899) (cropped).jpg (illiterate), probably others on Commons. Here is one which shows distaff members of the Improved Order of Red Men laughing as they "play Indian" :File:Pocahontas Degree.jpg. A "noble savage" type image might be better, but I didn't see any free ones right off, but there are a plethora in :File:Improved Order of Red Men certificate 1889.jpg which is too detailed to use as is, but you could pull out a panel or something. These are positive stereotypes, but they are still stereotypes and some of them are made up I think. Herostratus (talk) 18:56, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  I replaced the lede image