Talk:Elyesa Bazna

message: In the Jan 11, 1971 issue of Time magazine, they report that he died of kidney disease; in Munich.  They also state that "in 1960, Bazna emigrated to Germany, where he most recently worked as a night watchman in Munich."
:Found it! , thanks!--CaroleHenson (talk) 09:34, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Later Life and Death

message: Bazna published his book I am Cicero in 1962. The film 5 Fingers was made in 1951 and released in 1952. It used another book, Operation Cicero, by  L.C. Moyzisch, published in 1950. Orbicle 11:16, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: , thanks!--CaroleHenson (talk) 09:37, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Discrepancy

message: This article states that her suit against the German government regarding the counterfeited money resulted in a "modest recompense", while Operation Bernhard says that she "unsuccessfully sued the German government". A citation of a reliable source should resolve that contradiction. (Now I noticed that Operation Bernhard has already been marked with the template, see also Talk:Operation Bernhard#Contradiction.) --Mormegil (talk) 11:29, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've not seen anything that says that Bazna (a he) received any restitution for the counterfeit money. It seems that has been deleted since this message. I'm guessing this is no longer an issue, unless someone has a good source.--CaroleHenson (talk) 09:55, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradicts Operation Bernhard 

message: Is there any reference for used car dealing in Istanbul for later life? Besides, his death isn't written. How did he died and when. It's not mentioned at the end.--Kafkasmurat (talk) 18:34, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: , , thanks!--CaroleHenson (talk) 10:06, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Death 

message: This discussion is quite interesting - and a good point - but it appears to be WP:OR / speculation. I could not find a source that even had Operation Jubilee and Banza in the same document.
::The biggest wartime deception was over Operation Overlord, where the use of a British naval officer, apparently embittered into becoming a turncoat, (but the son of von Ribbentrop's doctor and so personally known to him during his pre-war stint as ambassador in London), helped to persuade Hitler that the actual attack would come in the Pas de Calais. In this case, some of the true information provided to the Germans seems to have concerned the timing and placing of the disastrous raid on Dieppe (Operation Jubilee) by Canadian forces in 1942. If 'Cicero' were in fact a trusted double agent, he could have been deployed as a supporting actor in this dramatic delusion also. With the British aware from Ultra and Miss Kapp (Moyzisch's new secretary) that he was working for the Germans, he would only have known about Overlord, about which the British ambassador to Turkey would never have been informed, just what Department XX of MI6 wished to reveal. British Intelligence believed that the repeated presentation of many clues in multiple locations served to increase the illusion of authenticity.
Regarding the who? tag: the British naval officer was a fictitious naval officer. If a source can be found, I'm sure the fictitious name could be found. If nothing else, there's a wonderful documentary about this to clarify some of the info. (oops, mixup) I don't understand the parenthetical comment.
Perhaps I'm not using the correct search terms, though. Does anyone know of a published source for this information?--CaroleHenson (talk) 06:36, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I struck out the information that is due to a mix-up.--CaroleHenson (talk) 22:50, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Operation Jubilee 

message: Here's feedback regarding the results of the Copyvio Detector:
* Someone seems to have copied a large part of the article to Facebook - 73.0%
* CIA - 52.2% - This is primarily because of the quote box with text that starts out: "One of the best known spy stories of our time is that of Operation Cicero, a textbook exercise in tradecraft set in neutral Ankara...". Some are common terms like "the German Embassy in Ankara", "end of the war", etc. that no matter how it's reworded, it's going to be a hit in the detector for one book or another.
* National Archives - 32.4% - two quotes were used: ""It [Bazna's intelligence] provided the Germans with streams ..." and "The tale has become a popular (and frequently mis-told) war story."
* "The Kemalists: Islamic Revival and the Fate of Secular Turkey" - 5.7% - the duplicate info was the name of the book, "The Kemalists: Islamic Revival and the Fate of Secular Turkey".
* "The Kemalists: Islamic Revival and the Fate of Secular Turkey" - same thing, citation for a different page
* "The Kemalists: Islamic Revival and the Fate of Secular Turkey" - same thing, citation for a different page
--CaroleHenson (talk) 21:51, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comments for GA Review regarding copyright detectors 

message: It is only a third-hand anecdote, but one story is that while officially the Abwehr regarded Cicero as likely disinformation, individual Abwehr officers did not.  For example, when the Tehran conference discussed moving the Polish borders and establishing the different Allied occupation areas in Germany, they moved their families and assets westwards to take account of what would happen if Germany was defeated. 2A00:23C7:7B18:9600:C907:69F3:EEE6:73E9 (talk) 12:11, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Abwehr assessment of value 

message: I was unable to find better sources for either of these
A Turkish film about Bazna, Çiçero, was released in 2019.Cicero on imdb accessed on 12 May 2020
Cicero appears in the WW2 grand strategy video game Hearts of Iron IV as a secret agent for the German Abwehr.
I had hoped that the official site for the Hearts of Iron IV game would drill down to Cicero/Banza, but no luck. I was unable, too, to find a better source for the 2019 Turkish film. Neither the forum, nor imdb had editorial and fact-checking controls.
Does anyone know where reliable sources may be found?–CaroleHenson (talk) 17:59, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Better sources