Talk:Karelia (historical province of Finland)

message: There are a number of standing issues for structure of the article and its relations to corresponding articles. It belongs to the series of Swedish and Finnish historical provinces and which by template make reference to current, either Swedish, or in this case Finnish administrative entities. At one point there was an idea of being able to carry both Swedish/Finnish as well as Russian aspects of Karelia and also Russian entities and various other aspects were added. As this no longer is the case the article reverts to covering the Finnish administrative entities by template. Russian entities will still remain in reference on several locations in text. The article should also accomodate reference to the various different articles related to Karelia, not currently covered. -- Mic 17:59, May 27, 2004 (UTC)
Name: After additional thinking I am withdrawing my objections posted above. But there is another one: aren't the definitions "Russian Karelia" and "Finnish Karelia"  are degrading or humiliating in a way? I think not really, but could that be an isuue to a more involved side? Mikkalai 18:23, 27 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Standing issues 

message: refered as occupied terretories as they are no less so than Chechnya, East Prussia, Palestine, Iraq so on, taken by force and injustice by brutal nation of barbarians under yoke of the most brutal dictator that ever poised this earth, a wrong yet to be corrected. Ethnic cleansing also took place there and the area in now infested with colonialists, pretty much like Russia would have been dealt with had Germany won the war, you know, the population deported away or eliminated and the lands infested with their own population that is unnative to the lands. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.215.244.106 (talk) 12:07, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The area should be.. 

message: If this article must exist, it should remain where it is. WP:Names is very clear: English names must be used. Karjala is in English Karelia, thus the article must be located according to its English name. This has been discussed before with Turku and Pori County and in Toponyms of Finland. --MPorciusCato (talk) 19:13, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name of the article 

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thread_title: File:Historical province of Karelia in Finland.png Nominated for speedy Deletion

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20040602001752/http://www.kotus.fi/verkkojulkaisut/julk129/karjalat_kartta1.shtml to http://www.kotus.fi/verkkojulkaisut/julk129/karjalat_kartta1.shtml
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/19991004124230/http://www.internetix.ofw.fi/opinnot/opintojaksot/8kieletkirjallisuus/aidinkieli/murteet/kaakkois.html to http://www.internetix.ofw.fi/opinnot/opintojaksot/8kieletkirjallisuus/aidinkieli/murteet/kaakkois.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/19991006021001/http://www.internetix.ofw.fi/opinnot/opintojaksot/8kieletkirjallisuus/aidinkieli/murteet/savolais.html to http://www.internetix.ofw.fi/opinnot/opintojaksot/8kieletkirjallisuus/aidinkieli/murteet/savolais.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: What the heck is Kimi Räikkönen doing in the people section? Kimi Räikkönen was born over three decades after the cession of Finnish Karelia, in Espoo, which is nowhere near Karelia. Was this vandalism? JIP | Talk 11:38, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kimi Räikkönen 

message: I'm proposing splitting parts of this article ("Inhabitants" and maybe "Culture" as well?) to a separate article, which could be named named something like Karelians (Finns), for example, in similar spirit as we have articles for other Finnish subgroups. It would be an equivalent to fi:Karjalaiset and ru:Карелы (субэтнос финнов). --Vilutar (talk) 18:17, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Vilutar, as you point out it may be a valuable split to distinguish territory from people. The discussion would however need to address the page Karelians. Should it be renamed also to Karelians (Baltic Finnic people) or something similar? Lappspira (talk) 18:27, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello Lappspira. Currently it seems that Finnish and Russian Wikipedias are naming them so that Finnish Wikipedia calls Karelians "Karelians (people)" and Finnish Karelians only Karelians, whereas Russian Wikipedia calls Karelians Karelians and Finnish Karelians "Karelians (Finnish sub-ethnicity)". Both are fine ways to make a difference between them in my opinion, so whether Karelians remains Karelians or is renamed as you asked about, personally I think they would both work. Of course, it could be made so that Karelians is a disambiguation page with links to Karelians (Baltic Finnic people) and Karelians (Finns). --Vilutar (talk) 18:41, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: "Karelians" as a DAB sounds like the way to go: while there are clear primary terms for fi.wp and ru.wp, I'm not convinced there is one for en.wp. Not sure what the disambiquated titles would be, tho. "Karelians (Finns)" and "Karelians (Baltic Finnic people)" is probably a reasonable thing to default to, but the titles are a bit too similar for my taste. -Ljleppan (talk) 08:37, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: The first one could be phrased in many ways if that would make it clearer, since there are options like "Finnish Karelians" or "Karelians (Finnish subgroup)" etc... Though I can't personally think of a good different version to "Karelians (Baltic Finnic people)". --Vilutar (talk) 13:51, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

text: To add to the previous message, if we want to compare how similar situations have been handled in en.wp, there are pages called Macedonians (Greeks) and Macedonians (ethnic group). So I guess Karelians (Finns) and Karelians (ethnic group) are also options. --Vilutar (talk) 16:59, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Splitting proposal