Talk:Basketball/Archive 2

message: I've largely simplified the rules section — as I've done on many occasions now — and placed messages requesting editors to be careful here.
My reasoning is this: this article (which was 38 kilobytes long before my edit) can only capture a summary of the game; as some of us know the FIBA rules are a good 80 pages long and of course most rules simply cannot be listed here.  To show differences between college, high school, FIBA and NBA, as I have mentioned in /archive1#Levels in Basketball, only complicates things — such distinctions are not necessary in this overview.  Rules that are technicalities can generally be avoided.
There is a page, Rules of basketball, that I created for the rules of basketball.  I haven't had any time to edit it at all; and I don't know how much progress it has made, but a more detailed explanation of basketball's rules can be written there.  While it can be tempting to clarify and even expand on rules here, I ask that we don't do so.
On this note, I think it would be a good idea to work to reduce this article to about 30 kilobytes.  In fact, once it's simplified a bit, it could have a go at featured article status.  Please reply.  Neonumbers 05:15, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Awesome.  I just had to reverse the changes to the uniform section (just the part about numbers); I felt it was getting wordy (and we didn't need to go into unambiguousness and language barriers in that much detail).  I think the best thing is actually to make sure things are worded concisely, when I think about it.  (Thanks for your edits, btw.  I know articles are never "owned" by anyone, but I'm inclined to keep an eye on this one because it's happened so many times now.) :-) Neonumbers 23:24, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair enough.  I'd actually even go so far as to say that the specific numbers don't need to be mentioned; the only really crucial point is that every player wears a unique number.  But I'll leave it alone for now. Simishag 23:32, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Because you're removing and not adding with that, I'll (albeit sceptically) abide by your judgement on that one.  Feel free to remove the specific numbers if you wish.  Neonumbers 23:46, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rules and regulations 

message: Almost there - the article is 32 kilobytes but I should really be at 30 kilobytes.  Also, I wanted to put something in about common plays, like the pick and roll — so something else has to give way!  I conclude that the other sections can still be simplified a bit.  I'll do it when I get time, but if someone else wants to have a go, feel free!  ;-) Neonumbers 06:10, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I just realised that History of basketball might need to be made... I don't know much about history yet, though.  I'll get to it eventually if no-one else does, but there's just an idea.  Neonumbers 06:12, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Forgot to mention: ideally, all three sections will be of equal length.  Neonumbers 06:14, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Somewhat like they are now.  Neonumbers 06:17, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, done. Neonumbers 11:14, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Yea to be honest I don't like it either.  It was a suggestion at Wikipedia:Peer review/Basketball/archive1 — the guidelines at WP:LEAD say that for an article of this length, the intro should be three paragraphs.  I don't really understand why...  feel free to remove it, but be aware that FA process editors might prefer it there.  Neonumbers 04:15, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reducing article size 

message: There is a problem with source citing in this article.
While the rules and regulations section is properly referenced, the other two sections are not.  The history section was written a very long time ago; most users who contributed to this were IP addresses who have probably left or other users who have lost interest.  Furthermore, unlike the other sections, this section was written bit by bit, almost sentence by sentence.  Given the article in its current form, unless the original authors of this section can be contacted, it is difficult to cite sources, unless the entire section is rewritten with references.
The common techniques and practice section generally didn't have references; these sections were written mostly by people with experience in the sport, who didn't need references to write the sections.  While it is good practice to always cite sources, we face a problem here with that.
Any solutions?  Neonumbers 23:01, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citing sources 

message: I've created and uploaded an image at :Image:Basketball positions.png, which I have added to this article.  Could someone please double-check it for accuracy?  Thanks.  Neonumbers 11:59, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Basketball Positions 

message: I've changed the stament "even though it was an American game" to "North American game".  Some may not agree, but Canada played a strong part in the origins of Basketball.  The inventor of the game was Canadian, 10 of the players that played the first basketball game were Canadian, the game was played a lot in the early years in Canada, and the first NBA game was played in Canada with a Canadian team playing.  By refering to it exclusively as an American game I feel it does not give credit to these facts (can be referenced from NBA.com's history section, or many other sources).
206.116.26.72 09:14, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origins 

message: I've noticed many additions to this section recently, which, at the risk of being exclusionist, I removed.  The following guidelines for the links section are open to discussion, but please try to restrict additions to the external links section strictly to informational sites, for the enthusiast's reading.  In particular, links to these sites should be avoided:
*Fan sites
*Forums
*Online stores
Also, the sites should be reputable, but to be fair this is a very subjective judgement and is open to argument, so we needn't worry about that one so much.  Thanks.  Neonumbers 09:39, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The principle I took with removals today was that the site constitutes a sort of "further reading" for a reader of this article.  Generally, someone who reads this article will be someone that doesn't know what's in it beforehand.  Sites which have a focus (not just inclusion) on players, coaches and statistics were also removed, as well as regional sites except for the NBA.  Comments welcomed, please discuss before re-adding a removed link.  Neonumbers 09:16, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links 

message: The section College basketball and early leagues opens with the sentence "Naismith himself was instrumental in establishing the college game", but the only mention of Naismith in the entire article is that paragraph, and it's only his last name -- his role in the game is never mentioned at all.  Isn't he kinda important? :) --Chairman Kaga 01:07, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, here we go.  This edit  on March 15 vandalized the opening paragraph of the History section, and instead of reverting, this edit  deleted the paragraph entirely.  I'm going to restore this. --Chairman Kaga 02:39, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Naismith 

message: The history section's getting rather long, with all sorts of additions in recent weeks.  I expect there is heaps and heaps more to say on the history of basketball, and, like the rules — perhaps more so than the rules of basketball — this merits its own article.
I don't know much about the history of basketball and I really don't have time at this point to do anything about it.  But if anyone's interested, knows something about the subject, or has time to do anything about it, I encourage them to create history of basketball, link to it from this article, and delegate any other additions to the history section here to there.
On creation of the history of basketball page, a good target for its length on this page is about 9.5 kilobytes.  (At present, it is about 12.8 kilobytes.)
Perhaps one day, if no-one else does, I'll find the time, but if anyone's interested, there's an idea.  Neonumbers 05:55, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  History of basketball 

message: Here's what I believe the fouling rules should become: Scott Gall 10:57, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New version of foul rules 

message: A flatter TOC is required. Once this is unprotected, I'm going to revert Snyler's changes. - Ta bu shi da yu 06:45, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  -[[''''''Jon Phillip Melancon.'''''']] 

message: Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Canada, but I always thought that Basketball was invented in Kansas.Cameron Nedland 14:49, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No offense taken! It's always a good idea to ask... here is the relevant text from the article:"In early December 1891, Dr. James Naismith, a Canadian physician of McGill University and minister on the faculty of a college for YMCA professionals (today, Springfield College) in Springfield, Massachusetts, USA, sought a vigorous indoor game to keep his students occupied and at proper levels of fitness during the long New England winters." Hope this helps. --Ckatzchatspy 18:08, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Okay, sorry to waste your time.Cameron Nedland 20:55, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not a waste at all - happy to help. --Ckatzchatspy 21:27, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Canadian Inventions? 

message: If anyone knows the official diameter of a basketball hoop, please add it to the Equipment section.  Also the size/length of the netting.--Funhistory 20:23, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hoop/Net Size 

message: Don't you think some reference to the NBA as well as the collage basketball and the ACC should be included? Ace ofgabriel 21:29, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What do you mean?  There's a whole subsection on the NBA... Neonumbers 03:39, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: General