Talk:Pittsburgh Panthers

message: I found this page with incredible sparce information. I am currently researching the history of PITT basketball, and then will work forward from there. It is in pieces while i verify info and condense it. Needless to say, feel free to add and edit anything of use.
--DruP55 02:53, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Holes in text 

message: This page had large numbers of redlinks to Dr. H.C. Carlson, which is not a good idea for various reasons.  For one, having 30 links to a non-existent article caused Dr. H.C. Carlson to show up on this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Most_wanted_articles
I removed all the redlinks but one.  --Xyzzyplugh 15:17, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed redlinks

message: There are some woefully in acurate things in the table, e.g. the confusing of the "Eastern 8" and the "Atlantic 10" with the Big East. Not to mention some questions about the neutrality of the articale.
---please define what your "questions of neutrality" are or don't flag it as such.
cp101p 17:50, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Basketball Section 

message: I changed the colors of the football section for year to year to reflect losing and winning (actually, non-losing) seasons.  There seems to be some indication that yellow should indicate something else, but it makes no sense for me.  At the very least, there should be some sort of key for the chart indicating what the color means.  Further, I'm unsure what the "ranking" column means, though I suspect it's highest rank attained that season.  If so, it's a pretty silly column title and should probably be changed to "final ranking".  At the very least, it needs to be defined.Ltv100
:I have no prob with definitions being made, it is highest ranking attained, which I think is most historically relevant given the popularity contest nature of college football. Hholt01 23:05, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Color 

message: College football is pretty unique from any other sport, no playoff system, no balanced sch., not much one-on-one between opponents vying for a poll position.  This is why ALL national title claims should be listed with the notes above on the National Title section, also why the highest poll # should be given (obviously one would assume that Pitt either held every lower or earned the right not to), and HIGHLIGHTED just as a 6-5 or 7-4 season would be.  In some instances the media and reputation of Pitt in a 5-6 #13 year was MORE then the media and reputation around Pitt during a 6-5 NR year.  To be fair in a sport that judges all team based on rankings any year in the top 25 by Pitt should be highlighted, interested in other opinions, but really anyone who understands college football would do it this way to be fair Hholt01 23:12, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  For the final time the highlights are any year ranked or won 

message: This has recently come up as two separate editors have taken it upon themselves to change every mention of "Pitt" to "Pittsburgh" in an effort to "formalize" the articles...particularly the sports articles.  For now I have undone the revisions on the Pittsburgh Panther web page.  There is some history here that those from outside the Pittsburgh/Western PA area are probably unaware of.
1.  Since 1908 when the University of Pittsburgh changed its name from the Western University of Pennsylvania (until 1819 it was known as Pittsburgh Academy), those inside and outside of the university have referred to it as "Pitt".  Official documentation also self-refers to the university as "Pitt".  The quintessential history of the University by Alberts is called "Pitt" and the most referenced slogan and fight song is "Hail to Pitt".  Press releases involving the athletic teams (see here for the most recent :press release) refer to the teams as "Pitt". The web site url is www.pitt.edu. It is very similar to the University of Pennsylvania self-referring to itself as "Penn", Pennsylvania State University referring to itself as "Penn State", or the University of California-Berkley referring to itself as "Cal".  
2.  Locally and regionally, and even nationally, "Pitt" is used to differentiate the University's sports teams from the professional sports teams of Pittsburgh (the Steelers, Pirates and Penguins).  
3. Controversy struck in 1997 when new athletic director Steve Pederson took over a sagging athletic department at the university. In an effort to reinvigorate the sports programs by suggesting a fresh start, as well as to tie the Universities athletic teams closer the city in an attempt to revive flagging fan support among the city's non-alumni sports fans, Pederson introduced a new athletics logo, new blue and gold color scheme, and new uniforms.  Highlighting these changes was the replacement of the "script" Pitt logo (used to adorn facilities, uniforms, football helmets, and even used for non-athletic university  markings) with a logo that incorporated the word "Pittsburgh" in a torch-cut font.  Pederson also sent press releases to all local and national media outlets requesting that they no longer refer to the University as "Pitt", but as "Pittsburgh".  This met with outrage among some elements of the fan and alumni base, and was generally received by local and national media outlets with scorn, although they did generally comply.  A torch-cut "Pitt" logo was produced during this era and was meant to be used only for internal university markings and was seldom seen.  Upon the departure of Pederson to the University of Nebraska and the arrival of athletic director Jeff Long, the torch-cut Pittsburgh logo was gradually phased-out, and, to coincide with the hiring of Pitt alumni Dave Wannstedt as head football coach in late 2004, a new (yet retro) "block" Pitt logo was introduced thereby completely reversing the edicts of Pederson to replace "Pitt" with "Pittsburgh" in promotional and media fronts.  Interestingly, the change in blue and gold shades remains, as they have been adopted university-wide and Steve Pederson has since returned as AD at Pitt, although he promised there will be revisions of the current logo this time around.  However, the replacement of "Pitt" with "Pittsburgh" remains a very sensitive issue for many involved with the university, and unilateral conversion of "Pitt" to "Pittsburgh" may result in edit wars between alumni factions.
4. That said, the official name is the University of Pittsburgh and "Pittsburgh" is used to some extent, generally when referencing other academic criteria in the same sentence that would immediately signal that it was referring to the University, not the city.  For instance, when using "Pittsburgh" it is typically either proceeded with the words "University of" or followed by "Panthers", etc).  This holds true for administrators through alumni of the university.
These are the reasonings to leave "Pitt" alone, so to speak. I welcome further opinions but, again, direct you the usages of "Penn", "Penn State", and "Cal" by those respective universities. Just so its clear, I do believe the use of the word "Pittsburgh" when referring to Pitt is useful to reduce repetitiveness in the text. Please leave your opinions on this opinion. cp101p (talk) 23:50, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Pitt vs Pittsburgh

message: The version of the block Pitt logo, Pittsburgh Panthers.svg, has been floating around, but it has inaccurate color reproduction and drop shawdowing (there should not be white trim around the gold lettering border) in this format (blue letters on white background) of the logo.  This image therefore does not meet the criteria of accurate reproduction of the registered trademark that is being used to represent the entity and shouldn't be used.  See a high resolution example of the logo at the school's official athletic department website here and multiple other examples at pittsburghpanthers.com CrazyPaco (talk) 20:42, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: In fact, upon examining this .svg version of the logo in Adobe Illustrator, it appears that it may have been traced from a bit map image.  This is why the black dropshadowing pulls apart from the gold rim of the letters unless the image is viewed at a very small size.  It does not appear to be an original .svg from the university, and after examining 100s of uses of the logo by the university, none were found to display this anomaly or particular color shading. It is definitely an inaccurate representation. CrazyPaco (talk) 21:51, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Block logo versions

message: I see CrazyPaco has correctly been wary of including Fordham in the same context as Pitt PSU and WVU.  I did add it again but was very specific this time with the era and added a citation and explanation of why the short lived series is remembered by some (70 years later no less) as so memorable as to be confused with other colleges.  Fordham being a national power (even a yearly contender for the national title) over the entirety of the series and many games ending in deadlock ties is probably why it is so remembered by those that were there.  Willing to compromise on this or tweak it some but as Cincinnati is listed as a "rival" despite year-to-year games only happening in the last 6 seasons or so as well as virtually no national significance or poll implications in any of them a side by side would have the Fordham series though very short lived ranking far ahead of Cincy in football and possibly with the benefit of hindsight 20 years from now even Villanova or UConn in basketball.  Interested in hearing other opinions on this and open to suggestions on how to place Fordham in its proper context.  Marketdiamond (talk) 15:29, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Fordham, contemporaneously, was not a rivalry in the way the term "rivalry" is understood at large. However, I edited the wording to reflect that better and left it in as the series has been highlighted in various University productions, notably, its 100 Years of Pitt Football video production from 1990 and the book Greatest Moments in Pitt Football History. So I would say it was a historically notable series, although I still contend it was not a rivalry if you examine contemporaneous historical documents of the university, like the student yearbooks or alumni publications which are available on university's Documenting Pitt website. In that material it is clear it was never viewed as a institutional/school rivalry as was Penn State, WVU, Carnegie Tech, W&J, Duquesne or Notre Dame.  Cincinnati is not a rival either in that there is no true sense of rivalry between the two institutions' student or fan bases, but it is a named trophy rivalry which precedence of the College Football Wikiproject suggests that it is notable and worthy of its own article. All college football trophy rivalries have their own article (see List of NCAA college football rivalry games). Thus rivalries are either notable for their long-standing series that in and of itself naturally generates significant 3rd party-coverage (PSU, WVU, Duquesne) or because they are named and have a trophy (Cinncinnati), which means they typically additional rivalry coverage as well as opposed to routine game coverage if for no other reason than it is pushed by the PR mechanizations of the schools and conferences. Fordham, on the other hand, was not an institutional rival and was never a trophy rivalry. Actually, for a short time in the first half of the 20th Century, there once was a trophy for the winner of  Pitt vs Penn State, and the City Game basketball winner is awarded a trophy, but there is no other current football trophy rivalry for Pitt other than the River City Rivalry.  BTW, the Cincinnati series has been extremely significant as it determined the conference championship or BCS bowl representative in 2008 and 2009. The 2009 contest was the defacto, season-ending Big East Championship game. In both cases, the both Pitt and Cinncinnati were nationally ranked. .  You are right that Villanova and UConn may not be viewed as rivals in the future. I didn't add those schools as rivals in the article in the first place and probably wouldn't have done so. Still, in the case of Villanova, the the rivalry between the fan bases was intense in the 80s and centered around finger pointing over the recruitment of Doug West (Villanova) and Bobby Martin (Pitt). Rollie Massimino and Paul Evans openly despised each other. But after those two coaches moved on, the rivalry dissipated, and really, didn't exist other than some good games in the last half of the 2000s. The UConn "rivalry" was more about both teams being the two winningest programs in the Big East during the 2000s. I would bet neither is likely to be seen as a historical rivalry down the road, although perhaps they may be viewed as notable series like Fordham, unless they are somehow regularly scheduled out-of-conference going forward. But I have no issue with Fordham staying in the article as it now exists. In the future, because Syracuse and Pitt are scheduled to become designated cross-divisional rivals in the ACC, that series, which is not really emanate from the fan bases but from historic length and conference designation, will warrant a stand-alone article.  CrazyPaco (talk) 16:52, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Enjoyed that read CrazyPaco, interesting data, I agree this section may need to be looked at a few seasons after the ACC move and you're right things like Fordham and UConn and Cincy have the impressions of rivals to some fans/alums but don't neatly fit into that box compared to PSU and WVU.  Made a few minor syntax corrections to the section and thanks for the input, edits and expertise! Marketdiamond (talk) 10:05, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Inclusion of Fordham for rivalries

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Pitt is returning to its old script logo effective 5/18/2016.  Update the logo on the page and maybe add the phased-out block logo somewhere else on the page.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.23.209.227 (talk) 18:03, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pitt logo update 

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