Talk:Don't Look Now

message: This article was voted on for deletion at Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Don't Look Now on 17 Jan 2005.  The consensus was to keep it.  (10 keep, 0 delete.)  dbenbenn | talk 09:37, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: :Image:Dont look movieposter.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 06:48, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Dont look movieposter.jpg

message: Is it really necessary to have a nude image from the film for the "Love scene" section?  The section does not require illustration, and the photo doesn't illustrate anything.  The only imaginable reason to put it in is to serve as titillation, which is inappropriate.  It's also of extremely poor quality.  It looks like a low res digital photo of someone's TV screen.  If illustration is required here (and it's not), surely we can do so with a high quality image that actually illustrates something about the text, not just a nude shot of Christie straddling Sutherland. 12.233.146.130 (talk) 21:54, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Propriety is not a valid reason for removing the photo since Wikipedia does not condone censorship.  I agree that the image is of poor quality though and maybe a superior image may be desirable to illustrate the section, but it may be that one isn't available due to copyright reasons.  That's an argument for replacing the image though, not simply removing it, and the issue should have been discussed here first.  Betty Logan (talk) 05:08, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

text: I've replaced the image with a more relevant one. Betty Logan (talk) 02:52, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Second image 

message: In the tearoom scene where they first see the two ladies, at approximately 09:35mins, Sutherland appears to say to Christie "Do you want me to put something on the internet". This would pre-date the actual first use of the word 'internet' by 9 years. However, on close listening to the context, he actually says "Do you want me to put something on the end of that".  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.172.156 (talk) 11:14, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mis-heard 'Internet' quote 

message: *The theme of the little red-clad Venetian figure is used in a dream sequence in the "Book Clubbin'" episode of television series Absolutely Fabulous, Series 5.
*This film heavily influenced Alice, Sweet Alice.
*Portions of the film are sampled in the M83 song "America."
*The film is mentioned in a portion of the graphic novel Swamp Thing, written by Alan Moore.
*The 2002 mystery/comedy "Unconditional Love" directed by P.J. Hogan features a dwarf character who in several scenes wears a red raincoat and specifically cites "Don't Look Now".  In a later scene, a cop catches a fleeting glimpse of her and asks his partner "Did you ever see a movie called "Don't Look Now"."
I moved these out of the main article until we can find reliable secondary sources.  It would be great if we could source the Alan Moore reference since literature hasn't been covered in the "influence" section in the article. Betty Logan (talk) 14:55, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The Swamp thing reference happens in Issue #20 of Swamp Thing which is collected in part one of a six part collection of Moore's run in Swamp Thing called Saga of the Swamp Thing. It is not a graphic novel.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.184.176.192 (talk) 18:40, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  References in popular culture 

message: The most notable aspect missing from the article is box office data.  Unfortunately Box Office Mojo hasn't any recorded, but it would be nice if we could find some either through Variety or something.  If anybody can find some it would be much appreciated. Betty Logan (talk) 07:36, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Box office details 

message: I have not seen the film and so can't correct this sentence:
: In the meantime the police have found the sisters and brought them in for questioning, so an apologetic John offers to escort Heather back to her hotel to rejoin her sister, Wendy.
The police brought both sisters in and then John offers to escort one of them, presumably from the police station, to rejoin her sister?
Also, there was a long gap between the first mention of "Heather" and the sentence that has an issue. I was wondering who "Heather" was. It may help to change "Laura meets with the sisters," to "Laura meets with the Heather and Wendy." --Marc Kupper|talk 05:34, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confusing sentence 

message: There have been some recent edits characterising the genre of the film as a "horror" in the lead. Per WP:FILMLEAD only the primary genre should be listed in the lead. I am well aware of the film's influence on the horror genre, and even that it is regarded as a horror film in some quarters; however, this is not a universal interpretation. The highly respected American Film Institute consider it a "suspense drama", which is as good a description as any. Mark Sanderson's book about the film (published by the British Film Institute and used as a major source in the article) describes it as a "gothic thriller". Allmovie probably best sums it up as a "supernatural/psychological thriller", which is terminology commonly used to describe the film: there is a neverending array of books describing it as a "supernatural thriller". The point though is that it is not principally regarded as a "horror film", and describing it as such is misrepresenting the WP:WEIGHT of the sources. I think the article gets the balance right, describing its standing within the horror community and its influence on the genre, but overall "thriller" embraces the many different characterisations of its genre that are to be found in credible reliable sources: supernatural thriller, psychological thriller, suspense drama and—yes—even horror are invariably all types of thriller. Betty Logan (talk) 01:47, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, but why remove it from the horror categories too? Clearly it's considered a horror film as well. It doesn't have to be in the lead, but it should be in those categories.Lynchenberg (talk) 02:42, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: If you agree to leave the genre as it is in the lead I can live with the addition of the horror categories in the spirit of a fair compromise. Betty Logan (talk) 02:46, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no problem with that, but it must be stressed I'm not just speaking from my own personal opinion. This is Rotten Tomatoes, IGN, The Guardian, the Criterion collection among others... all very reliable sources. https://www.criterion.com/films/27928-don-t-look-nowhttp://ca.ign.com/articles/2015/04/29/remake-of-horror-classic-dont-look-now-plannedhttp://www.rottentomatoes.com/top/bestofrt/top_100_horror_movies/https://books.google.ca/books?id=ghmYvJReqIIC&pg=PA259&lpg=PA259&dq=don%27t+look+now+best+horror+films&source=bl&ots=nsQqDCHAx0&sig=S0tTUwcEsAQ8xYtlHC6b9BVgNOo&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CEkQ6AEwB2oVChMIv9LQ3J6JyAIVi3-SCh1eAA7y#v=onepage&q=don't%20look%20now%20best%20horror%20films&f=falsehttp://www.theguardian.com/film/2010/oct/22/dont-look-now-roeg-horrorhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/film-news/11570209/Dont-Look-Now-but-yet-another-horror-classic-is-getting-remade.htmlhttp://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/horror-classic-dont-look-get-792061http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/don-t-look-now-really-don-t-look-now-is-getting-a-hollywood-remake-10211994.htmlhttp://www.bustle.com/articles/79605-1973s-dont-look-now-is-getting-a-remake-its-only-the-latest-horror-film-tohttp://collider.com/dont-look-now-nicolas-roegs-horror-classic-getting-a-remake/http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/apr/29/dont-look-now-horror-remake-developmenthttp://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/04/29/dont-look-now-new-film-remake_n_7169928.html Lynchenberg (talk) 02:49, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: This film falls into a group of films that defy basic genre classification. It has been labelled as many things over the years, so WP:WEIGHT is probably more applicable than WP:VERIFIABLE in cases such as these. That said it probably has had more impact on the horror genre than any other (which is discussed in detail in the article) so in retrospect I do actually agree there is some justification and historical context for the categories. Betty Logan (talk) 03:14, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Genre changes 

message: Just wondering why Italian Giallo isn't cited as one of it’s influences  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dirk2112 (talk • contribs) 22:56, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you know of any sources that discuss the influence of giallo on the film? I would be happy to incorporate that aspect into the article if the information is available to me. Most of the inspirations section uses the BFI Modern Classics book as a source but unfortunately that book is mostly limited to British cinema lineage. I have read comparisons between Don't Look Now and Who Saw Her Die? which came out a year earlier, but those comparisons are complicated by the fact that Don't Look Now is a fairly faithful adaptation of du Maurier's novella which predated Who Saw Her Die?, so it's not really clear who influenced who. If you know of sources that discuss the giallo influence on Don't Look Now though we can probably put something into the article. Betty Logan (talk) 00:42, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inspirations Note 

message: I think the stating of the genre in the first paragraph of the introduction should be changed from just "thriller" to "thriller-horror" as the article can be found on the pages "Category:1973 horror films", "Category:British horror films", "Category:Italian horror films" and "Category:Supernatural horror films", as well as the pages "Category:British thriller films", "Category:Italian thriller films" and "Category:Supernatural thriller films". This therefore shows the film to be a significant work in both genres so these genres ought to be given equal weight in the introduction.
Following on from this, would it not be better to change the structure of the first two sentences to:
:Don't Look Now... is a 1973 British-Italian independent thriller-horror film. It was directed by Nicolas Roeg and adapted by Allan Scott and Chris Bryant from the short story of the same name by Daphne Du Maurier.
as this not only gives more information than can be found in this paragraph currently, but also improves upon the slightly clunky phrasing of the current opening?
Hayal12 (talk) 18:41, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: This has already been discussed above at #Genre changes. Don't Look Now borrows traits from many genres such as horror and psychological drama, but most authoritative sources regard it as a thriller, or an occult thriller. That is what the film was conceived and marketed as. Per WP:FILMLEAD we classify a film under the primary genre or sub-genre under which it is verifiably classified. While other genres may be applicable as categories if they can be sourced (such as horror or psychological thriller) that doesn't mean we plonk them all in the lead.  Betty Logan (talk) 18:55, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Could I just add my complete agreement with Betty Logan's comments above. I see no reason to add anything to the current lead. David J Johnson (talk) 19:03, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair enough, but whether or not we add something, the lead still reads fairly awkwardly and could benefit from being re-phrased. Hayal12 (talk) 17:29, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: In what way is it awkwardly phrased? It obviously read fine to the reviewer who passed it at GA level. Look, the article is comprehensive and well-written and has successfully passed a Good Article review. In short it doesn't need tweaks. Your time would be more fruitfully spent on articles that are in clear need of development, such as Stubs, Start and C-class articles. Betty Logan (talk) 17:32, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Introduction 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Don't Look Now. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110929070708/http://blogs.suntimes.com/scanners/2009/10/viff_antichrist_a_pew_in_satan.html to http://blogs.suntimes.com/scanners/2009/10/viff_antichrist_a_pew_in_satan.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 20:47, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Why on earth does Wikipedia bother to have MOSFILM when it's patently obvious it means nothing? 
Who thought sticking the cast into a crappy table half way down the screen? 
Has anyone ever bothered to view this on a mobile device? Poor very poor. 81.141.33.6 (talk) 08:51, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: The cast list is fully compliant with MOS:FILM which states that "a table or infobox grouping actors and their roles may be placed in the plot summary or in the "Casting" subsection of a "Production" section". Also, Wikipedia is not designed to be read on a mobile device; it is designed to be read at a minimum resolution of 1024x768 pixels per WP:RESOL. Betty Logan (talk) 16:21, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stupid formatting 

message: This article doesn't mention the remake attempt. Given that we haven't heard anything about it for four years I think it's pretty clear Donald Sutherland's scathing comments killed it in its crib, but still, the idea of a remake should probably be mentioned. Serendipodous 15:32, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: The remake has been on and off for over a decade. So far it has just been rumours and there is nothing tangible to say about it. WP:NOTRUMOR states that "Speculation and rumor, even from reliable sources, are not appropriate encyclopedic content." If something concrete comes along I'll be the first to add it. Betty Logan (talk) 22:20, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: How about simply saying, "the rights to remake the film are currently held by StuioCanal, and numerous such attempts have been made, though none have yet been successful."? Serendipodous 01:12, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Because it would not actually be telling us anything encyclopedic. The remake rights to every film are held by somebody and there has been no serious activity worth documenting. At this point it is just rumors and trivia. Betty Logan (talk) 02:06, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  remake 

message: I checked three other major films (at random) with Venice locales - Death in Venice, The Tourist and Everyone Says I Love You - and all three have an early reference to Venice hyperlinked. I checked Nic Roeg's page - sure enough, first reference to Venice is hyperlinked. I looked up Midnight Run (again, a random choice, first movie I thought of); the plot summary hyperlinks the initial mentions of NYC, LA and Chicago.
If consistent style is to have any meaning on this website, one can plan on spending most of 2021 editing plot sections on Wikipedia movie pages - or one can let the only hyperlink to Venice on the Don't Look Now page stand, and move on to more worthy uses of one's time. Porterhse (talk) 14:10, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Just because something is linked at other articles doesn't mean it should be linked here. None of the articles you have linked to have been rated "Good Articles". This article has been under review and its compliance with the MOS has been reviewed also. MOS:OVERLINK is explicitly clear on the subject of what not should be linked: The names of subjects with which most readers will be at least somewhat familiar. This generally includes major examples of ...  locations (e.g., Berlin; New York City, or just New York if the city context is already clear; London, if the context rules out London, Ontario; Southeast Asia). The MOS seems fairly unequivocal on this issue. Betty Logan (talk) 15:03, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  You are now edit-warring a clear MOS violation into the article. Why do you think the MOS does not apply here? This looks like a very straight-cut application to me, and presumably  too. If you think an exception is warranted then please explain to us what distinguishes this particular case from typical usage. If arbitrary MOS violations are introduced into the article without justification (and usage in non-GA rated articles do not provide such justification) then the article's GA status could be ultimately jeopardised. Betty Logan (talk) 23:41, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Stop pretending that one minor good faith edit that improves the page is somehow defacing your Golden Calf. I do not intend to waste any more time on this beyond a final explanation and defense of my edit. It was done in good faith for those who have seen the movie, want to (as I did) learn more about the city, Venice, that played a key role, and appreciate the opportunity to arrive at the page via one click - a wonderful convention of Wikipedia that attracts users - instead of having to type it in. The policy cited in defense of the edit is ambiguous, obscure, open to wide latitudes of interpretation, and flagrantly ignored or outright disobeyed on myriad pages. Your time could be spent much more productively on improving the policy, and/or on making useful, welcome edits on pages that really need it, including literally thousands more egregious violations than the one you are edit warring over. I could care less about the ramifications of an edit war, including being blocked. If it's more important to you to win a picayune edit war than avoid alienating a user with 2000 edits and 0.1% reversions of them, Godspeed. I read the talk pages; it wouldn't be the first time a Mrs. Grundy turned a friend of Wikipedia into an enemy by picking petty squabbles like this. The choice is yours.Porterhse (talk) 00:17, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Your initial edit was in good faith, now you are editing in poor faith. My time was well spent developing this article from a stub into a MOS-compliant GA-rated article, and you clearly aren't going to answer my question for why we should be making an exception for a well known geographic location. See you at ANI. Betty Logan (talk) 00:33, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re reverted edit that hyperlinked the first mention of Venice in the plot section 

message: Twice now ( and )  has removed text noting the response of the Daily Mail to the controversial sex scene, citing WP:DAILYMAIL. The RFC only prohibits the Daily Mail as a reference. It is not a licence to remove sourced commentary about the Daily Mail. This section does NOT use the Daily Mail as a source; the source is the Sanderson book, published by the British Film Institute. The book is essentially an academic critical study of the film, and Sanderson highlights the Daily Mail response as an example of the media reaction at the time. Neither would I classify it as an "undue opinion" by virtue of the fact it is singled out in a serious scholarly study. Betty Logan (talk) 15:15, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Totally agree with Betty's comments above.  David Gerrard please note. David J Johnson (talk) 15:19, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

text: Agree with Betty as well. David's conduct in this matter has been repeatedly overzealous and may warrant action. He is acting as if the restriction is a ban on the Daily Mail, in direct contradiction to what WP:DAILYMAIL actually says. Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me) 15:29, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Erik, I trust you are referring to David Gerrard and not me? Regards, David, David J Johnson (talk) 15:35, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Whoops, it did not register that there were two Davids. Yes, David Gerrard. Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me) 15:45, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Erik commented on this subject last year in his May 6 postings at Talk:RoboCop (2014 film)#WP:DAILYMAIL. Betty Logan joined that discussion May 20 and I entered on May 23 in the hope of convincing David Gerard that exception should be made for Daily Mail arts coverage, but all such arguments have obviously continued to be unsuccessful. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 07:16, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I have been quite taken aback by how this Daily Mail guideline has been deployed. I am all in favour of factual integrity but it has evolved into a purge. How can Wikipedia have a serious ambition to democratise information when it purges voices it doesn't like? The Daily Mail has occasionally fabricated stories so we should definitely seek to replace it in those instances where factual veracity is potentially an issue, but removing it as a "voice" is over-stepping the line. It is the UK's second best selling newspaper and has an important role in the national conversation. In this particular case we don't even use the Daily Mail as a source; literally, an academic briefly discusses a Daily Mail review (from 50 years ago no less) as an example of the media reaction to the film and now even this is being targeted! Betty Logan (talk) 14:58, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: From 4 March 2017 until 16 July 2020, a Daily Mail article on this subject was part of the talk page template, but this anti-Daily Mail crusade is relentless — from targeting articles, such as Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Daily Mail Inspirational Woman of the Year, to what one contributor called "indiscriminate, overreaching, and unnecessary deletes", it has become a heedless search for anything that contains the words "daily mail", especially entries listed at Daily Mail (disambiguation) — such as references to the defunct American newspaper Charleston Daily Mail. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 06:56, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Daily Mail 

message: implemented this edit in the article. Is it just me who finds the phrase "thriller film" clunky? While I have heard films described as "thrillers" I never hear them described as "thriller films", unlike say "horror film". I appreciate we have an article called "Thriller film" but the term just doesn't read right to me plonked in the middle of a sentence. I have always believed that good quality writing should reflect how people actually speak. Betty Logan (talk) 11:58, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: You may well have a point. The film encyclopedia source which purportedly supports the expression "thriller film" in the very first sentence of Thriller film in fact does no such thing. Konigsberg 1997, p. 421 has an entry for "Thriller" ("Any film  that creates excitement and suspense..."), and does not use the expresssion "thriller film" anywhere within its 469 pages. If you want to check, the book is available for free short-term loan from the Internet Archive. I would suggest, actually, that Thriller film should be moved to Thriller (film). MichaelMaggs (talk) 14:01, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

text: Hi, appreciate you coming to the talk page. I think your proposed compromise wording is a good solution and hopefully it might create a precedent here on Wikipedia.  Betty Logan (talk) 06:24, 31 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thriller film 

message: Is there a reason for the absence of a cast list? DuncanHill (talk) 23:34, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: What do you mean? Betty Logan (talk) 02:30, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cast list 

message: The first six bars of the soundtrack are practically identical with the opening tune of the German TV news "Tagesschau." Nobody ever made an issue of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyGmFvO0KE0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05n8yr9Vz-o
--Turan MUC (talk) 10:48, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Soundtrack