Talk:North American F-82 Twin Mustang

message: Bill-
I'm flattered that you consider the text of this article, which I originally wrote back in 2005/2006, to be so good that you deleted all my recent additions to restore it vitrually intact. Unfortunately you distroyed all the research that I've done in the last few months to update what I had written two years ago. For one thing, some of what I wrote back then now needs to be updated as new information has surfaced. In addition, the surviving aircraft thankfully haven't just sat around gathering dust. I'm extremely pleased to report that Tom Reilly just purchased Walter Soplata's XP-82 airframe and it's now another hulk off his fam and on its way to a glorious restoration (that may take longer than our combined lifetimes, but if anyone can do it Tom Reilly can). 
If you want references please check out Kevin Tanner's article in the June 2008 issue of Air Classics magazine. He sites most of what I've added. Other information came from David McLaren's excellent book "Double Menace". I got a copy after I had originally written this article and am just now getting around to updating my errors and ommissions (propellers DID interfer with the SRC-720 radar set, which was why the dish had to be positioned in front of the props). "Double Menace" is still the only book ever written about the history of the F-82, though I hope to get with Dave someday and write an updated version, and use a better publisher.
I tried looking up the ISBN # for the book, but unfortunately it appears to be so rare I wasn't able to find a seller who listed the book with the #. As far as citing references, I'm sorry but I've never been any good at figuring out how to use Wikipedia's citiong system. I'm not a computer geek, and a lot of this programming language still doesn't make sense to me. I would welcome your help with citing Dave's book and Kevin's article for the updates I've added. 
I've also sent Tom reilly an E-mail asking him to post a photo of his XP-82 to this article so everyone can see what a task he has ahead of him, god bless em'.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ken keisel (talk • contribs) 16:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I wrote a lengthy response, but my computer ate it! Really! I'll try to write it again later, but I have errands to run at the moment. - BillCJ (talk) 18:00, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Recent updates

message: The combat story about engagement with Yaks and Las doesn't make sense. No two-seat Yak-9s were ever produced, which suggests that the target was a Yak-11 (my references also cite a Yak-11 as the first air-air loss of the war). But could a Yak-11 with a mere 570 hp and a single machine gun really engage an F-82 and score hits on it unless the pilots were real buffoons? Or was there a Yak-9 attack followed by the Twin Mustang engaging a Yak-11? Can someone clarify this? - Emt147 Burninate! 04:38, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The war story

message: Why was it designed the way it was? // Liftarn
:The airplane was meant to be a very long-range escort fighter in the Pacific Theatre of Operations.  The big "trump card" the US military was intent upon playing in the PTO was the B-29 Superfortress.  As soon as that airplane began development, planners began looking at ways to employ it to bomb the Japanese home islands.  The entire strategy in the Pacific was driven by efforts to obtain islands to place B-29s within striking distance of Japan.  The US Army Air Forces learned in late 1942 & through the first half of 1943 that our bombers, when penetrating deeply into enemy territory in Europe, suffered heavy losses without adequate fighter escort, & it was felt the B-29s would suffer the same fate at the hands of the Japanese.  By the beginning of 1944, it was obvious that the US bomber forces in Europe had a winning escort fighter in the Merlin-powered P-51, & efforts were underway at North American Aircraft to improve the design.  The problem in the Pacific was distance; the crew members in the B-29s could be expected to share the flying duties on the long missions required to cover the vast distances to reach Japan from their hard-won island bases, but for one pilot in a P-51, those vast distances probably would be debilitating.  The thought of "too bad there isn't a second pilot in a P-51 to help the poor guy out as a relief pilot" drove the designers at NAA to take their winning escort fighter & provide just that.  The original P-82 concept took 2 fuselages of the "light-weight" Mustangs under development at the time (specifically the P-51F) & joined them on a common wing with proven advanced aerodynamic attributes.  The resulting design provided a highly maneuverable fighter aircraft with multi-engine reliability, combined with lots of airframe capacity to carry fuel (in that long wing & in the two fuselages) to provide the extended range required in the Pacific, plus a relief pilot to share in the tasks required to fly the airplane to the target & back (originally, the left fuselage cockpit had a full set of controls for the airplane, while the right side cockpit had just enough controls to provide relief to the left side pilot).  The layout of the design itself probably started out as a curiously unusual, albeit appealing, approach to a daunting mission requirement.71.228.225.234 (talk) 09:10, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, it might be interesting to have some information on the layout of the two cockpits.  Were they identical?  Were the two pilots performing the same function, or did they have two specialized functions?  Did the planes ever fly with just one pilot?Newell Post (talk) 20:13, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Design 

message: I've made a number of high-resolution scans of F-82 photographs and have uploaded them to Commons and expanded the gallery considerably.  Have also expanded the captions of several others.  Enjoy :)  Bwmoll3 (talk) 13:22, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Commons

message: This article states: "Radar-equipped F-82s were used extensively by the Air Defense Command..." Five squadrons operating the aircraft for two or three years is hardly "extensive" - perhaps this modifier should be deleted or even changed to something like "briefly" or more accurately "to a limited extent" (although that's a bit wordy). At least, this article doesn't claim the aircraft was integrated into the SAGE system as the F-94 article mistakenly does (the F-94C was never equipped with the datalink equipment and was almost completely phased out before SAGE came on line).  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.158.48.90 (talk) 12:50, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Extensive?

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replies: text: Here's a video on the XP-82 posted Aug. 23, 2018. Looks like it's almost ready to fly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQP0IHH3FTs Bizzybody (talk) 02:15, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I was curious about how they were used.  Could either pilot take over control at any time?  Did one pilot sleep while the other flew on long trips?  Did one fly and the other fire the weapons? The article does not really make this kind of thing clear, and I think other people would be interested too. Thanks. SpecInterest (talk) 14:33, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  How were they used? 

message: Came across a Feb. 2020 article about a restored flying F-82. Apparently it's a surviving prototype, so XP-82 is more accurate. https://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/last-long-distance-escorts-180973974/ "No Twin Mustang Has Ever Been Restored…Until Now". They had to copy parts off  a damaged fuselage and use replica composite propellers. Not sure if this info. is suitable for the article. 220 of Borg 05:36, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: This is also mentioned above, back in 2008!, at Talk:North_American_F-82_Twin_Mustang#Recent_updates when the initial 'half' of the fuselage was located.  who may be interested. 220 of Borg 06:34, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: The flyable XP-82 is already covered in the article under North American F-82 Twin Mustang#Surviving aircraft as the first entry there. I read the Air & Space article earlier this year, and it was very interesting. If there are any important details that can be added that we don't cover there already, you can add them if you want to. - BilCat (talk) 06:48, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:   I assumed that this was all new, but as you said, I had finally seen that it is already on the page at :North American F-82 Twin Mustang#Surviving aircraft.  I'll just slink off and find something useful to do. Breakfast, there's an idea! Regards, 220 of Borg 07:03, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: No worries, it just proves Wikipedia is often more up to date than many sources. :) - BilCat (talk) 07:27, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep. And I did have breakfast, at 5pm in the afternoon, Oztralian time. Far too much WP editing late at night, on a 10 inch tablet. 220 of Borg 07:43, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flying survivor 

message: * Acording to the infobox: 15th June 1945, I found referenes suppported by warhistoryonline.com, flightjournal.com and classicwarbirds.co.uk (but it's possibly that they have the date of the first flight from here)
* In this article: 26th June 1945, referenes suppported by 318fis talks about first succesful flight. And I found:
„The first of two XP-82s flew on 16 June 1945, with NAA test pilot Joe Barton at the controls. Barton had actually tried to make the first flight on 25 May, but the machines absolutely refused to get off the runway, and the first actual flight was performed with a half-fuel load. The design engineers were frantic, thinking that the machine was fundamentally flawed, but it turned out that the engines, which contra-rotated, had been installed so that the props swept upward towards the center wing section, which stalled the wing section. The engines were quickly reversed, and on 26 June the XP-82 took off and flew generally as it had been designed to, much to everyone's relief.“ on airvectors.net
* 1945 in aviation 15th April 1945 with ref.: Angelucci, Enzo, The American Fighter: The Definitive Guide to American Fighter Aircraft From 1917 to the Present, New York: Orion Books, 1987, p. 340.
So which date is correct? MestskyVlk (talk) 11:06, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  First flight