Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Aztec/Terminology

message: Moved text from Talk:Aztec/Usage
--Richard 05:26, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

message: "Mexica is a term of uncertain origin. Some say it was the old Nahuatl word for the sun. Others say..." Some? Others? Does anyone have any references for who says this? -- Jmabel 21:21, 14 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Here's my stab at a translation: Mexico means "The Navel of the Moon" in Nahuatl. This word comes from "mexitli" that is made up of "metztli" (moon) and "xictli" (navel). 
The origin of the word derives itself from "Mexictli", the name given to the god Huitzilopochtli "the hummingbird of the south" that conducts the Mezicans to the "lacustre" region in the center of Mexico. Mexictli is composed of the roots "metl" (maguey, a type of cactus), "xictli" (navel) and the locative "co", its translation would be "the navel of the maguey", which tells us of the mythological sense that the prehispanic cultures gave to this plant. 
If anyone wants to add this, go ahead. I'm confident in my translation. [[LinaInverse 02:18, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Origin and meaning of the word Mexica

message: Can somebody include pronounciations of the Nahuatl words & names? They're a bit tongue-twisting. Please, no IPA, it's gibberish to me (& doubtless many others). Unless you can link to an "equivalency", like dictionaries do: the schwa =[whatever]. K?  Gracias!  Trekphiler 19:34, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Nahautl words are ordinarily accented on the penultimate (next-to-last) syllable. If they are not written with accents, they are accented as if Spanish; if the accent doesn't follow Spanish, accent marks are added (for example, Popocatépetl). Vowels have the Spanish value, as do most consonants. Some exceptions are "x", which is pronounced like the "sh" in "shoe" (this was the old Castilian pronunciation and is still found in Galician and Portuguese), and "tl", which is pronounced as "t" followed by the Welsh "ll" sound (keep the tip of your tongue in the "t" position, drop the sides of the tongue, and hiss). Nahuatl words are often long because they are synthesized or compounded from smaller pieces. Hence Popocatépetl: poca, "smoke"; popoca, "smokes" (plurals are formed several different ways, in this case by reduplication of the first syllable); tépetl, "mountain": "mountain of smokes".--Curtis Clark 07:20, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronounciations of the Nahuatl words & names 

message: I have just changed Motecuhzoma to Moctezuma since that is the most commonly used spelling on Wikipedia.  Wikipedia style standards state that the Anglicized/Romanized spelling should be used which would suggest that we use Montezuma.  However, Moctezuma seems to be the prevailing spelling in Wikipedia.  IMO, we should determine what the preferred spelling is in scholarly articles and use that.
Richard 20:39, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The prefferred spelling in scholarly articles is Motecuhzoma if using Richard J. Andrews orthography which is becoming the most accepted in aztec studies. Another transliteration that is accpetable is Moteuczoma or Moteczoma but this is not commonly used. This is because unlike the two other forms moctezuma and montezuma it reflects his actual name in Nahuatl. It is composed of the three parts "mo" the reflexvive pronoun , "tecuh/teuc" "lord" and "zōma" "frown" - the other forms introduce spurious letters like "n" or turn "tecu" into "cte" for no good reason. ·Maunus· ·ƛ· 10:42, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spelling of Motecuhzoma vs. Moctezuma vs. Montezuma 

message: The following was recently cut from the article; I'm not sure why, it seems to me like it belongs there. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:07, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: That makes three of us. Reinstated. –Hajor 01:14, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Terminology 

message: Here in the U.S., we are trained to talk about "Native Americans" instead of "Indians".  In almost every article about Spaniards in the Americas, the native peoples are called Indians (or Aztec or whatever).  I suspect this is a translation of the Spanish word "indios".  
There are times when I use "Native Americans" out of habit.  Should I force myself to use "Indians"?  Could sound weird to some American readers but "Native American" could sound weird to a Hispano-hablante (Spanish speaker).
What do you think? Why not use Native Mexican Americans (they are Native Mexica/Mexicans of Mexico? or even Mexicanos since that is what moder day scholars use when they talk about the original people of Mexico, I think Cortez called them Culhua Mexicas, Mexicanos and even Indios)..
Richard 06:38, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I found very strange to use "native american" and probably most latinamericans would feel the same. We usually use it to refer to the "tribes" of north america... (That is Canada and US..) ..(So why not use Native Mexica/Mexican Americans or even Mexicanos).. probably because most latin americans resent the use of "Americans" to refer to the people of the US. "Indio" has some peyorative sense in spanish, so ussualy we prefer "indigena", i am not shure if the word "indigenous" has the same meaning, But most of our history in the last 500 years refere to the native population as "indios" so it has became an habit. But.. I undestand this is an English Enciclopedia, so i will try to adapt to what is more aceptable. Nanahuatzin 22:52, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Per Rockero below, the dilemma can be avoided by preferentially referring to these peoples by their specific names. If however the context demands that some collective designation be used, then "indigenous peoples" or some variant might indeed be the least problematic approach. We've even an entire article here devoted to this sometimes-vexing issue, see Native American name controversy. Note also that even though the terms 'Native American', "American Indian', et al can have different scopes and levels of acceptability depending on where you are from, and are not necessarily interchangeable, they remain valid and recognised terms which can also be used as long as the context is clear about to whom they refer. It's probably only necessary when contrasting these peoples with those who came later; the article(s) themselves will already place them as the indigenous or native Mesoamericans for the reader.--cjllw | TALK 02:49, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Some of my Indian... uh, Native American acquaintances are trying to reclaim the term "Indian", and refer to themselves as Indians (they are Tongva). There is one piece of folk etymology that the term comes from en diós, supposedly meaning "with God", the Spanish being impressed by the holiness of the indigenous people. Although I find the theory literally incredible, I've long been a proponent of reclaiming "witch" (in the sense of Wicca), so I see their point.--Curtis Clark 03:55, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

text: i agree with "Indigenous peoples". I will try to regularize my use. I knoe there is a movement to  reclaim the term "indio", because no mater it´s origin.. it has almost 500 years of use.  But this.. "it´s another story.."  :)  Nanahuatzin 06:05, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

text: In nahuatl, plural is used only for animated things, not for concepts. The correct form is "The azteca", and "the mexica". In spanish we use "mexicas" and "aztecas", but from an strict point of view this is also incorrect, as some scholars insist on remind us.  Nanahuatzin 19:59, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  One more question: Indians vs. Native Americans 

message: I would expect that Nahuatl would be capitalized but it is often in lowercase.  Is this just an artifact of typing quickly or should it be in lower case?
Similarly, I would expect words like tlatoani, tlatimine and tizitl to be lowercase and italicized but sometimes they are capitalized (see Education section) and not italicized.  Is this an error?  Should the standard be that all Nahuatl words are lowercase and italicized?
Finally, what is a "nahua"?  Is it someone who speaks Nahuatl?  Should the word be capitalized like Aztec and Mexica?
Richard 06:04, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In nahuatl, plural is used only for animated things, not for concepts. The correct form is "The azteca", and "the mexica". In spanish we use "mexicas" and "aztecas", but from an strict point of view this is also incorrect, as some scholars insist on remind us.  Nanahuatzin 19:59, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question about capitalization of words