Talk:Sayat-Nova

message: There is really something seriously annoying about having to revert this. please do not be disruptive. you know it is not an appropriate edit summary. Do not pretend there is concensus or that name has any relevance.Shamshadin (talk) 06:09, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fictitious Azerbaijani Name 

message: Sayyid-e-Nawa سید‌ نوا  —Preceding unsigned comment added by HussaynKhariq (talk • contribs) 11:34, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Persian Spelling of Name 

message: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sayat-Nova&action=historysubmit&diff=403349052&oldid=402790412
I have reverted it back to the original. Tuscumbia's blind revert reintroduced grammatical errors which my earlier edit removed. It is "Haghpat Monastery" not "the Haghbat monastery", a person is "ordained as a priest", not "ordained a priest". Tuscumbia's revert also removed two fact tags. Most of the discussion on this page has been about what languages Sayat Nova wrote in - so I decided that getting some decent references into the article would settle this matter. A general work (such as that of de-Waal, a non-expert in this field and whose cited book, beyond a single sentence, is not about Sayat Nova) is NOT suitable as a source for specialised material to do with Sayat Nova. My request for proper sources, made through the insertion of fact tags, is justifiable, and the tags should not be removed again. 93.97.143.19 (talk) 13:59, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Sources are pretty reliable. When De Waal doesn't fit your agenda, you'll always question him, won't you? He's an expert in the conflict and the cultures of the region. Tuscumbia (talk) 14:58, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh wise one bringing pretty reliable sources, please tell me the title of the book by De Waal that you want to use as a reference? Is it titled "Sayat Nova"? (I didn't think it was, but maybe I was wrong, oh wise one). Is its primary subject Sayat-Nova? (I didn't think it was). Are any of its chapters titled Sayat Nova or dealing in any depth with Sayat Nova? (please correct me, oh wise one, if I am wrong in saying "none"). Please tell my how it counts as a specialist source on Sayat-Nova? How many pages in that book are about Sayat Nova, how many sentences mention Sayat Nova, how many words are there about Sayat Nova? At the foot of what sage, what expert in Caucasian folklore, did the all-knowing De-Waal learn, after many years of dilgent and attentive study (and without consulting any sources he felt worth citing), the is-and-outs of every aspect of Sayat-Nova's life and works to the extent that his opinion on Sayat Nova, given in just a few words in a book about different subject, takes precedence over all other sources to the extent that other sources are not needed - and even to ask for them is to be accused of having an agenda? 93.97.143.19 (talk) 15:58, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Recent revert by Tuscumbia

message: The most possible birth-date of Arutin Sayat-Nova is 1722. There are 8 points of proof, presented by Paruyr Sevak.
1. Georg Akhverdyan thought of 1712 because of the author's comment to his first armenian song written in 1752. "I, Arutin, (have) tested myself with every kind of songs up to 30 years, but I've learnt to play the Kamancha, the Tchongur and the Tambura due to St.Karapet". The first dated song by Sayat-Nova was written in 1742. Thus, 1742-30=1712. But Sayat-Nova was 30 when he wrote his first Armenian song. So, 1751-30=1722.
2. There is an autobiographical (Javsatlama) song (January 3, 1750) in Turkish, on 75-76th pages of the Davtar. In the 28th line we read: "Since the age of 20, I've sell'd diamonds to beggars", which means he started to compose at the age of 20. We know that his first dated song was written in 1742. Thus, 1742-20=1722.
3. In the 27th line of the same song, we read: "At the age of 19, I travel'd across Habaşu-Hindustan". It is related to the "Indian campaign" by Nadir-Shah, which started in 1738. Nadir returned to Iran in January 1741. Sayat-Nova also joined him with the group of Givi Amilakhvar, and not with Erecle II, and not as a musician (Then he was 19, but he started to compose at the age of 20).
4. In 1741, after the Indian campaign, Nadir raided to Oman, which Sayat-Nova could name "Habaşu-Hindustan" as well. Nadir returned in 1743.
5. There is a Turkish aliflama-karaheja on the 101th page of the Davtar, written on March 4, 1755. In the 19th line, we read: "Sayat-Nova reached hey to vov". Hey is the 6th letter of the Arabic alphabet, and Vav is the 27th. 6+27=33. So, 1755-33=1722.
6. There is a Georgian song, written in 1759, when he was finally fired from Erecle's chamber. In the 9th line we read: "With the Georgians have I wasted my youth". If he were born in 1712, he would be 46, and he would never call himself "young".
There is a Turkish zinjirlama on the 65th page of the Davtar, written on May 5, 1753. In the 26th line we read: "It's a pity you're an adult, too young". If he were 41 (b.1712) or 36 (b.1717 by Morus Hasratian's version), he would never call himself "young".
There is a Turkish varsagh, written on June 10, 1758. In the 10th line, we read: "I was wet, I got burnt with the dry". Saying "I was wet", he meant "I was young". If he was born in 1712, then he would be 46 years old; and he would never call himself "young". The situation changes, if he were 36; then he could complain to himself about "getting burnt with the dry".
7. There is another Georgian song written in 1759 and dedicated to Erecle II. In the 20th line we read: "You are my spiritual parent". To be a parent (even a Spiritual one), Erecle should be older than Sayat-Nova. The king was born on November 7, 1720.
8. There is a Turkish karaheja on the 87th page of the Davtar. In the 20th line we read. "Yazumişı te u alif, iki kaf". The line means either "Let us weep", or "my age is TE, ALIF, two KAF". Te means both 9 and 400, Alif is 1, and Kaf is 20. Moreover, the first verse of the song is on the 65th page (left incomplete), and it's followed by another zinjirlama on Ç, written on May 5, 1753. But the word "takak" has TWO ALIFS. So, 400+1+1+20=422 (by the Georgian Chronicon, started in 1312). So, 422+1312=1754. Now the age: TE u ALIF, IKI (2), KAF = 9+1+2+20=32. So, the birth-date is: 1754-32=1722.
Anyway, we must remember: nobody but Sayat-Nova himself gives us the proof.
--Paruyr Sevak, 1966.
P.S. Sayat-Nova's real name was Arutin. The traditional birthdate is July 14. But he was named Arutin (arm.Harutyun=Ressurection) beacuse was born on the Easter Day (The Armenians of those age were too religious). The 1722 date was April 5. So, the full birthdate is April 5, 1722 AD.
--46.71.77.190 (talk) 14:16, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Birthdate 

message: What is "Azeri Turkish"? Is it Azerbaijani language or Turkish language? Please clarify and correct it in the lede. Jaqeli 00:52, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Please see this. Jaqeli 13:19, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  It should probably be changed to Azerbaijani, although during his lifetime the language was not known by that name. From my own experience, it was called simply "Turkic" or "Tatar". --Երևանցի talk  18:08, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  Lifetime or not it's still Azerbaijani. As for "Tatar", indeed, Georgians also knew them by this term which is sometimes used even now. Jaqeli 19:07, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: It will be what suitable sources say it is. However, 18th-century Azeri Turkish is not 20th century Azerbaijani; I doubt "Azeri Turkish" needs clarification, it is fairly clear what is meant by it. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 21:14, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Azeri Turkish? 

message: In order to clear a question of ethnonym “Azeri" and toponym “Azerbaijan” that are mentioned in the article in relation to Sayat Nova, who, along with his native Armenian, also composed in several other languages, including Azerbaijani, I suggest that an external link to the Qajar dynasty be added. It will cool off modern Azeris posting here, in that the Qajar dynasty was a Persian royal dynasty of Turkic origin. From 1785 until the beginning of the 20th century, when the dynasty ruled, there was no such a separate nation, more so a nation-state, outside Persian Azarbaijan as Azerbaijanis, the ones that now exist in the part of the South Caucasus. The link to the Qajars will also demonstrate that Shah Mohammad Khan Qajar, who beheaded a genius Armenian musician for refusing to convert to Islam, was of Turkic origin.71.191.3.226 (talk) 22:19, 30 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ethnonym "Azeri" and toponym "Azerbaijan": clarification needed 

message: Isnt Sayat just taken from his surname??  Why are we trying to derive that? That would be like saying that Mika's stage name is from the Basque word for magpie.  —Soap— 12:35, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why are we trying to figure out what Sayat means? 

message: I think I was somewhat mistaken in my edit summary (diff). While the Google books source is from 60s, had no pages cited and is WP:AGEMATTERS, the Britannica article wasn't a book but a short article . Regardless, as far as I'm aware, Britannica isn't really a proper WP:RS and everyone could edit it like Wikipedia. Also apparent by the cited article itself, "This article was most recently revised and updated by Amy Tikkanen.".
I've seen other more experienced editors describe Britannica as "not proper RS" .
If there are good reasons to include that Britannica article as a source, I'm open to listen. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 12:32, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Britannica