Talk:Amtrak paint schemes

message: Lets try and get rid of these flags. I think the biggest thing we need is more citations for verification.PFreeman008 (talk) 02:13, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds like a plan. This isn't my highest-priority project, sadly (I've got a huge backlog of images to deal with) but I'll find and format citations when I can. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 02:19, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Flags

message: Are there any pics of the 8-32Bs in Phase IVB/VI? Ken S. 19:16, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: B32-8WHs were never painted in phase IVb nor were any other Amtrak locomotives. The most recent schemes the B32-8WHs have seen are the two Amtrak California versions (MK I & MK II) and Phase V. PFreeman008 04:12, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Locomotives in Phase IVB/VI 

message: I inserted a few photos next to the matching phase paint descriptions to provide a visual of the description. --Rent A Troop (talk) 03:33, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photos 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140827114440/http://www.hebners.net/amtrak/amtGEN42_61_69/amt61c.jpg to http://www.hebners.net/amtrak/amtGEN42_61_69/amt61c.jpg
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061108182302/http://www.hebners.net:80/Amtrak/amtGEN42f_123_132/amt128a.jpg to http://www.hebners.net/amtrak/amtGEN42f_123_132/amt128a.jpg
*Added  tag to http://www.aaa.biz/sycskits/campaigns/Amtrak/Amtrak_Branding_guidelines.pdf
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: "In February 2015, the first Viewliner II Baggage cars entered revenue service wearing an updated version of Phase III (often erroneously referred to as Phase IIIb)."
Maybe it's just from being out of the looop a bit, but was this newly revised Phase III livery actually officially dubbed "Phase III," and not "Phase IIIb?"  Asking only becasue I am out of the loop.
* There's not much official information, but going by  it's Phase III. Mackensen (talk) 16:57, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  A little confused by this statement (perhaps being out of the loop for a bit) 

message: So here I wanted to add this for you guys to either refer disruptive editors to or add to the article to deter disruptive editors. I didn't want to just go ahead and add it to the article because I go too far in depth sometimes and wanted to make sure the people here who are better at writing than me approved. If you want this added, feel free to pick bits and pieces of it, and edit it to your liking. 
So, proposed addition:
Amtrak's Phases are branding terms. While there are variations and Amtrak acknowledges there are variations, they do not use letters to distinguish. This is because each Phase is just like it sounds-it was a Phase that Amtrak was going through. Each Phase is the "face" of Amtrak for that era, and thus is the branding for that era. So, while there are variations in paint schemes, I don't think Amtrak would call its branding something else. For example, Phase II is not Phase IIb as it encompasses every derivative of Phase II branding. 
Separate things for Phase III and Phase VI:
While Phase III has made a small comeback, it is simply that, a small comeback of Phase III. To ensure the branding term argument holds true, the Phase III equipment bears red sill stripes and Travelmarks. This is to show it's still Phase III but is part of the Phase VI era. That does not make it Phase IIIb, however. This is equivalent to using current markings on Heritage Units in order to show while they are a throwback to a certain paint scheme, they are still part of the current modern era. 
As for the Phase IVb argument, here's why Phase IVb is actually Phase VI. Phase VI may use the same stripe pattern as Phase IV, but there are some key differences. The first two main differences are Phase IV uses darker colors than Phase VI and Phase IV uses the Wordmark instead of the Travelmark. Another difference is Superliner IIs painted in Phase IV omitted a red stripe but received that stripe when painted into Phase VI. 
To reinforce these points-the Phase III we see in service today does not apply to the Phase IVb/VI argument because it uses the same stripe pattern and the same colors, even though it uses an additional red sill stripe and Travelmark logos. In chronological terms, it also makes sense to call Phase IVb what it really is, Phase VI, when you consider the fact that Phase V was applied to rolling stock as well as locomotives. The most important thing to consider is Phase IVb couldn't be a correct term anyway as it's inconsistent with branding. It's not a throwback to Phase IV. If it was, it wouldn't be system-wide and would use the same colors. But Phase VI does not. This is why the Phase III we see in service today is not system wide. 
What do you guys think? Feel free to keep this here to refer disruptive editors to. GenesisFan99 (talk) 21:22, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible Addition to Article 

message: As I've seen, the Phase IVb livery scheme has had some controversy over what's named what. Even though I do understand that Phase VI is the "official" name for the scheme according to the guide, I believe that it's better to add headline info that Phase IVb is the common name so nobody gets confused between the original Phase IV and the new variant introduced in 2002. Phase IVb has been the name that has been applied to the "Phase VI" for a very long time but now Matt Donnely has taken branding more seriously, I believe people should still have the freedom to call the scheme "Phase IVb" because it's so similar to Phase IV and that there is no locomotive with a Phase VI. I believe people will start referring to Phase IVb as VI if applied on a locomotive. It's similar with Phase III and the new variant, though there key differences between the old & new, it's not like we're gonna refer to the new variant of Phase III as "Phase VII" cause it'll throw many people off. 
In New York State, there is a huge controversy over the Tappan Zee Bridge where the bridge was renamed the "Governor Mario M. Cuomo Bridge" and nobody liked it and people still refereed to the bridge as the Tappan Zee thoguh the name "Mario Cuomo" Has been strictly enforced. I believe there should be a compromise with both names and this goes with the same with Amtrak's Phase IVb scheme. So I'll just add that Phase IVb to the "Phase VI" just to come to a compromise and not start controversy. And DO NOT modify my edits cause according the guide, Phase IVb is also an name for the scheme.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.87.196.115 (talk) 14:09, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no "controversy", and I'm very sorry that you think I'm an "asshole" for maintaining consensus and wanting reliable sources. "Phase IVb" was never an official name, never appeared in any official documents, and has never been used outside of foamers and the model-makers that cater to them. While noting its unofficial use in the text is fine, it should not appear in the lede nor in the heading. Can you provide any official Amtrak source other than the Brand Management document - which does not declare it an official name - that even mentions "Phase IVb"? Pi.1415926535 (talk) 23:24, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

text: Agree with Pi here. –Daybeers (talk) 01:03, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

text: Or any reliable secondary sources using it consistently? I also agree with Pi, there's no consensus here, and barely enough information to prove the IVb is actually a term that was used. LittlePuppers (talk) 00:19, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Phase IVb naming controversey 

message: === Midwest paint scheme ===
There's a new paint scheme out for the Midwest Corridor trains. At the moment it's only seen on the new Charger locomotives, but early renders from Siemens show it being applied to the cars as well. (not to mention the Amtrak California scheme appears to be changing a bit as well). Probably time to add the new scheme in... I'm struggling to come up with good wording to describe the dots. The new scheme: https://media.amtrak.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/20170827-DJI_0624-600x400.jpg
I've not read thru them, but the Chargers all have different variations to the existing schemes for the Surfliner, Cali, and Cascades... not sure if we want to address that as well. PFreeman008 (talk) 00:20, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I've already covered the CA and WA schemes in their respective sections. Until anything comes out explicitly saying otherwise, the Midwest Chargers should be treated as a Phase V variation. (Likely this will become more clear next year when the single-level cars arrive.) Pi.1415926535 (talk) 00:26, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Heh, I personally wouldn't consider the Midwest paint scheme to be part of the Phase V scheme. As it's the inverse, and includes a new element, the dots. We have Phase V passenger cars in service now, which are primarily all silver, the Acela. PFreeman008 (talk) 15:39, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: We now have official pictures of the new Midwest coaches to match the Chargers. I'm still of the opinion this needs it's own section, like Amtrak California. https://www.facebook.com/IllinoisDepartmentofTransportation/posts/10157656454567201 PFreeman008 (talk) 16:18, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Paint Schemes 

message: There's a new paint scheme out for the Midwest Corridor trains. At the moment it's only seen on the new Charger locomotives, but early renders from Siemens show it being applied to the cars as well. (not to mention the Amtrak California scheme appears to be changing a bit as well). Probably time to add the new scheme in... I'm struggling to come up with good wording to describe the dots. The new scheme: https://media.amtrak.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/20170827-DJI_0624-600x400.jpg
I've not read thru them, but the Chargers all have different variations to the existing schemes for the Surfliner, Cali, and Cascades... not sure if we want to address that as well. PFreeman008 (talk) 00:20, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I've already covered the CA and WA schemes in their respective sections. Until anything comes out explicitly saying otherwise, the Midwest Chargers should be treated as a Phase V variation. (Likely this will become more clear next year when the single-level cars arrive.) Pi.1415926535 (talk) 00:26, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Heh, I personally wouldn't consider the Midwest paint scheme to be part of the Phase V scheme. As it's the inverse, and includes a new element, the dots. We have Phase V passenger cars in service now, which are primarily all silver, the Acela. PFreeman008 (talk) 15:39, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: We now have official pictures of the new Midwest coaches to match the Chargers. I'm still of the opinion this needs it's own section, like Amtrak California. https://www.facebook.com/IllinoisDepartmentofTransportation/posts/10157656454567201 PFreeman008 (talk) 16:18, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Midwest paint scheme 

message: Amtrak just announced the new paint scheme for their new long distance Chargers. While I would certainly wait until there is an actual painted locomotive, they are calling the paint scheme Phase VI. https://media.amtrak.com/2020/08/amtrak-prepares-for-new-diesel-locomotive-fleet/ PFreeman008 (talk) 16:18, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Long Distance Chargers 

message: The new Acela consists have been out testing for some time now with a new paint scheme as well. I have not heard anything official as to what this scheme is called however. I did take some pictures of it when it passed by me & can post when we have that section up. https://media.amtrak.com/media-images/new-acela-fleet-testing-on-the-northeast-corridor/ PFreeman008 (talk) 16:18, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Acela II 

message: Hey fellow editors!
662 was painted in a Phase III Train Sim World scheme a few weeks ago, and it should likely be added here, but I'm not sure where. Where do you guys think it should go? Thanks! Best, MTATransitFanChat! 00:05, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: It's already been in the article for weeks. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 01:47, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  ACS-64 662 

message: There's some disagreement on which Phase VII images to show, which got a little side-tracked over the addition and removal of alt text. Here are some versions:
* Three images
* Two images, ALC-42 and P42DC, version 1
* Two images, ALC-42 and P42DC, version 2
I have no opinion on the merits; obviously whatever images are selected will have alternative text. WP:GALLERY governs. Mackensen (talk) 23:09, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Two images is definitely sufficient - we don't need a duplicate P42DC image. I'm ambivalent about which of the P42DC images to use; a crop of the version 2 image focused on the locomotive might be best. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 23:21, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

text: I'd prefer option 3 as that P42 image does a better job of showcasing the paint scheme on the side of the locomotive.  Jcody21 (talk) 23:35, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

text: Agreed, two images is sufficient. Agreed with Pi that a crop of the version 2 image focused on the locomotive might be best. However, I really like the P42DC, version 1 for the top image on the GE Genesis page. I'm gonna put it there as a bold suggestion. -- RickyCourtney (talk) 23:55, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Phase VII images