Talk:Algonquian languages

message: New sections at bottom, please. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.250.168.169 (talk) 21:28, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: "The medicine culture has been taken from Medicine Givers known generally as Wanagi Cha (Spirit Speakers) and has been passed from generation to generation along familial lines. Forgetting most of the lore and leaving behind what the teller did not like. Consequently the "religious" aspects of the Algonquian people as well as most of the Native American nations within North America have been lost to all but a few Wanagi Cha. There are perhaps seven or eight Wanagi Wakan K'cha or Medicine Teachers (Spirit Counsellors) on the whole continent." - This sentence no doubt has a place somewhere, but it doesn't belong in an article on the Algonquin languages.  More worryingly, I'm fairly sure "Wanagi Wakan K'cha" is a Lakota, and thus non-Algonquin, phrase - in which case it reaally doesn't belong here.  I'll delete it and leave it in the comments. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.164.10.115 (talk) 20:19, 4 April 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Medicine culture

message: An anon user copied this entire article into Algonquin and copied that entire article here.  I've reverted both duplications.  In the course of doing so, however, I noticed that the section on Algonquian spirituality is here, although it relates to the people generally, not just the language.  I'm moving that paragraph to Algonquin. JamesMLane 02:59, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Spiritual practices

message: It would be interesting to list all the Algonquian name and their meanings.  A paragraph listed some of them already, but a list with meanings alongside would be much better.  Kowloonese 08:30, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: This would be interesting, especially for placenames that are not obviously or widely known to be of Algonquian (or Indian in general) origin.  For example, just yesterday I realized and quickly confirmed that the city of Muncie, Indiana, comes from the Munsee Lenape.  The giveaway clue is that Muncie is in the Delaware County.  It may be trickier to give the meanings of placenames.  Quite often, I think, there is an official story about what a placename means in its origin Indian language, but such stories are often wrong or questionable.  And hey, this is my first ever edit in Wikipedia!
Pfly 18:07, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I've tried to provide etymology for all the things with Cree and Ojibwe names in Wikipedia by putting the information in the article. By looking at the  What links here for Cree and Ojibwe, you can find most of them. But, I haven't studied any of the other Algonquian languages and I don't have text resources for them. But if you've got a list for those two languages, I can help. --Diderot 20:12, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Placenames and their meanings

message: The main article contradicts itself. The phrase "Only Eastern Algonquian..." contradicts the rest of the article.
All three are linguistically related, according to the main article.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.133.59.189 (talk) 09:45, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Read more closely, it says that "only Eastern Algonquian is a true genetic SUBGROUP", clearly implying subgroup of the larger genetic group "Algonquian".  "Plains" and "Central" are convenient geographical groupings of Algonquian languages, but are not genetic units within the larger genetic grouping "Algonquian". (Taivo (talk) 10:53, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: In any geographical classification, the number of sub-groups can be chosen freely. Two could just as well be replaced by two million sub-groups.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.4.21 (talk) 08:40, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: So?  Algonquian is NOT a geographical classification, it is a genetic classification.  But instead of just listing the first level as A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O, P, Eastern Algonquian, we make it convenient and list Central, Plains, Eastern with the note that Central and Plains are geographical groupings and not genetic.  What is your point?  Do you even have a point? (Taivo (talk) 09:26, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: In a genuine group of languages, sub-groups are discovered first, being more obvious.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.164.249.171 (talk) 12:52, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No.  If you knew anything at all about linguistics and the history of historical linguistics you would know that this is patently false.  Indo-European was discovered long before any subgrouping attempts were successful.  And, it is not always the case that there ARE subgroups.  In the case of Algonquian, there are no genetic subgroups other than Eastern.  Please, your ignorance and continued unsigned, cowardly sniping are getting old. (Taivo (talk) 14:41, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bad logic 

message: I've removed the paragraph on the connection of Algonquian and Afro-Asiatic from the article:
::Fuhler has provided evidence that links Proto-Algonquian to the Afro-Asiatic language family. The evidence Fuhler provides surpasses Johanna Nichols's requirements for individual-identifying systems. Whether the evidence establishes a genetic relationship is unclear, in part because of the controversy surrounding pre-Columbian diffusion to the Americas.
Since it was cited, I'm going to explain my reasoning below:
#This claim definitely does not represent the consensus view of scholars of Algonquian and American Indian languages in general.
#Since the article making this claim was only published in 2007, and in a journal that most Algonquianists are probably not familiar with, one can't expect any rebuttals or reviews yet. Wikipedia's policy states (WP:PRIMARY): "Wikipedia articles should rely mainly on published reliable secondary sources and, to a lesser extent, on tertiary sources. All interpretive claims, analyses, or synthetic claims about primary sources must be referenced to a secondary source, rather than original analysis of the primary-source material by Wikipedia editors." Therefore, since the only source for this claim is the original claim itself (the primary source), and no other researchers or linguists have, to my knowledge, written about it, it is not appropriate for Wikipedia. (Compare this with another recent claim about the connection of an American Indian language family with one from the Old World, Dene-Yeniseian, where the claim was positively reviewed by many specialists in the field).
#The article in which the claim is made (The Epigraphic Society Occasional Papers), to my mind, is not a truly reputable source. It is a journal founded by Barry Fell, whose conclusions on language have been vigorously opposed and refuted by essentially all specialists (see here for a discussion of one of Fell's claims relating to Indian languages, also published by ESOP). It is a journal covering a wide range of topics ("the interpretation of ancient or preserved scripts, symbols, and languages, as well as historical and traditional sources relating to ancient connections between cultures, religions, and philosophies/mythologies"), and is not the main journal for publications related to Algonquian matters. If Fuhler had truly demonstrated this supposed relationship, he should have read it at one of the annual Algonquianist Conferences, or published it in IJAL (the International Journal of American Linguistics), the preeminent journal of articles relating to indigenous languages of North America. That he did not, but instead published it in an obscure journal founded by a crank and given to publishing controversial and poorly-researched claims, a journal that most Algonquianists would be unfamiliar with, he says to me that he has not, in fact, amassed sufficient proof for this relationship. Another Wikipedia policy quote seems reasonable here (WP:SOURCES and WP:REDFLAG): "Articles should be based upon reliable, third-party published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy...Tiny-minority views and fringe theories need not be included, except in articles devoted to them....Exceptional claims in Wikipedia require high-quality sources. If such sources are not available, the material should not be included."
--Miskwito (talk) 00:50, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I completely concur since this is extreme fringe and the reliability of anything sponsored by Fell is extremely questionable.  I'm not sure how I missed this addition to this article, but I'm glad you caught it, Miskwito. (Taivo (talk) 05:26, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Algonquian and Afro-Asiatic 

message: :Category:Algonquian languages is a category within :Category:Algic languages. —Robert Greer (talk) 22:21, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[:Category:Algic languages]] ''vs.'' [[:Category:Algonquian languages]] 

message: Can anyone shed any light on the relationship between Algonquian and Iroquoian languages?    207.194.70.25 (talk) 23:27, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, forgot to log in.    Heavenlyblue (talk) 23:36, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

text: They are unrelated language families.  --Taivo (talk) 23:33, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: There must be some relationship, however far back we would have to go to find it.    Heavenlyblue (talk) 23:39, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  relationship between Algonquian and Iroquoian languages 

message: As of 3/3/2013 "Category:Algonquian loanwords" contained the following articles.  The category is being deleted per this discussion:
* Abegweit
* Algoma (placename)
* Amik
* Aroostook War
* Arthabaska
* Athabasca
* Baykok
* Bungi Creole
* Caribou
* Catawissa, Pennsylvania
* Caucus
* Chappaquiddick Island
* Chincoteague, Virginia
* Chipmunk
* Cisco (fish)
* Ekota, Edmonton
* Endiang, Alberta
* Etchemin language
* Gitche Manitou
* Hominy
* Siberian Husky
* Chief Illiniwek
* Kakwa
* Kananaskis River
* Katonah
* Ke-mo sah-bee
* Keewatin
* Kinkajou
* Kinnickinnick
* Kiskatinaw
* Kittanning Expedition
* Lake Michigan
* Lycoming Creek
* Manitou
* Meramec (series)
* Merrimac coup
* Meskanaw, Saskatchewan
* Miami-Illinois language
* Midewiwin
* Mi'kmaq language
* Treaty of Mississinwas
* Moccasin
* Monadnock
* Moose
* Moosomin
* Mugwump
* Muskeg
* Muskellunge
* Muskrat
* Muskwa
* List of Algonquian personal names
* Naskapi language
* Opossum
* Ottawa dialect
* Papoose
* Paskapoo Formation
* Passaic River
* Pecan
* Pembina
* Pemmican
* Persimmon
* Phalanger
* Piksi
* Pipsissewa
* Podunk
* Pone
* Pontiac
* Possum
* Potawatomi language
* Pow wow
* Puccoon
* Quahog
* Quiripi language
* Quonset hut
* Raccoon
* Roanoke Colony
* Romancoke, Maryland
* Sachem
* Sagamore (title)
* Samp
* Scuppernong
* Shaganappi
* Shawano Lake
* Shawmut
* Skunk
* Squash (plant)
* Squaw
* Succotash
* Susquehannock language
* Tamarack
* Tammany Hall
* Toboggan
* Totem
* Tullibee
* Tupelo
* Wabana Records
* Wabanaki
* Walam Olum
* Wampum
* Wamsutta Oil Refinery
* Wapiti
* Manchurian wapiti
* Wapstan
* Wendigo
* Weroance
* Wetaskiwin (disambiguation)
* Wickiup
* Wigwam
* Wikiup
* Winisk, Ontario
* Winnisook Club
* Woodchuck
DexDor (talk) 16:42, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Category talk:Algonquian loanwords had useful content, so I've moved it to Talk:Algonquian languages/Loanwords.  Nyttend (talk) 14:49, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Content of deleted Category:Algonquian loanwords 

message: Substituted at 07:17, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: The true name is Algonkian. The name Algonquian is for Algonquin Park, but the people and language is Algonkian.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.14.25.199 (talk) 18:38, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Algonquian/Algonkian.  

message: The map that shows the distribution of Algonquian languages actually shows Algic languages.The key point is in the little red section on the Pacific coast of northern California, which would indicates the lands of the Yurok and Wiyot - which are not, from my understanding, Algonquian languages per se, but languages sharing a common ancestor...  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zapallon (talk • contribs) 14:59, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mislabeled or Wrong Map? 

message: The article states that the name of the state of Delaware has an Algonquian etymology. However, this is untrue. The state of Delaware was named after the Delaware River. The Delaware River, in turn, was named for Thomas West, 3rd Baron De La Warr (1577–1618) who was the ruling governor of the Colony of Virginia at the time Europeans first explored the river.
The confusion may come from the use of the name "Delaware" for the Lenape, a Native American people who inhabited an area of the basins of the Susquehanna River, Delaware River, and lower Hudson River in the northeastern United States at the time of European settlement, as well as for their language. The Lenape language is, in fact, an Algonquian language, so that may be the ultimate root of the confusion. - Tyenkrovy (talk) 23:08, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Name "Delaware" Did Not Come From Algonquian