Talk:List of Christian denominational positions on homosexuality

message: This page is misleading in several instances.  The Southern Baptists, among other denominations, have congregationalist polity, which means that all significant decisions, such as acceptance of members, ordination, etc. are made exclusively by the local parish.  The Convention or whatever regional association can certainly pass positions, but they are not able to dictate their terms to local churches short of expelling said local church, which has indeed happened in some places but not consistently.  I am going to revise this to reflect that reality.  aliceinlampyland (talk) 23:03, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going to have to agree fully with this point. Specifically, as it relates to the SBC, this article makes several claims about what the SBC allows, in addition to SBC policy positions. While the denomination may hold certain convention-wide policy positions, they do not in any way dictate the actions of local churches or set guidelines for local church memberships. Since nobody else has commented on this, I'm going to go ahead and clean up that section a bit and take out the unsourced material.66.56.63.233 (talk) 20:12, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

text: The SBC recently disfellowshiped a church that had been openly inducting gay couples as members. The official denominational position denies fellowship to any congregations that “affirm, approve or endorse homosexual behavior," which the SBC seems to define as offering church membership to unrepentant homosexuals. Thus, it is accurate to say that the official SBC position on homosexuality is unified and enforceable. Uncle Dick (talk) 18:56, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Southern Baptists and other denominations with congregationalist polity

message: The Mennonite Church is split into various denominations. The largest Mennonite Denomination is the Mennonite Church USA. The Mennonite Church USA has many "Welcoming Congregations" which are churches who are welcoming and inclusive of LGBTQ people in all levels of church life. The name "Welcoming Congregation" originates from the Brethren Mennonite Council for LGBTQ inclusion (BMC) an organization started jointly between the Brethren and Mennonite churches in the early 1970s. The mission of BMC is to cultivate an inclusive church and society and to care for the Mennonite and Brethren lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and allied community. (taken from BMC website bmclgbt.org ) Another organization specifically relating to the Mennonite Church USA is the PinkMenno campaign. The PinkMenno Campaign supports the inclusion of LGBTQ individuals in marriage, in ordination, and in the loving community of Christian fellowship within the Mennonite Church. Pink Menno envisions the day when it becomes irrelevant because the church is fully living out Christ’s radical love toward all people, especially toward those in the margins. (taken from the PinkMenno website pinkmenno.org ) Pink Menno has actively been encourage open dialog and conversation at the Mennonite Church USA conventions for a number of years. PinkMenno as an organization is not recognized by the Mennonite Church USA.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.46.207.124 (talk) 17:54, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Mennonite Church

message: * Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada votes to bless same-sex marriage
In 2011, Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada votes to bless same-sex marriage.82.149.174.134 (talk) 11:22, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada 

message: * Guardian:Scottish Church votes for gay ministers
* In 2011, Church of Scotland allowed LGBT ordination. 82.149.174.134 (talk) 11:44, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Church of Scotland 

message: While the section on Anglicanism within the main body of the article is fair, the chart which reflects a "yes" to the questions of Ordination, Blessing of Unions or Blessings of Marriages in the Episcopal Church is misleading.  
Currently all Dioceses in the Episcopal Church will ordain people regardless of orientation, however, some require homosexuals to be celibate, some (where civil partnerships or same-sex marriage has been recognized by the state) require that a homosexual will be celibate outside of such a union, while others with a more progressive view in states where civil unions are not yet a possibility and a Rite of blessing has not yet been approved by the Bishop simply don't ask about sexual activity.  Additionally, the blessing of same sex unions or the view of same sex unions as equivalent to heterosexual marriage varies from Diocese to Diocese within the Episcopal Church.
Currently the Standing Commission on Liturgy and Music is working on a proposed Rite for the blessing of same sex unions to be presented at the next General Convention (2012), and several Dioceses have approved such a rite for the use of their clergy.  There is, however, a division between those in favor of such a rite as to whether the union is or is not marriage.  I would suggest, therefore, that the chart be changed to reflect the present reality in the Episcopal Church, which is that the Ordination of homosexuals is sometimes limited to celibate homosexuals (perhaps an asterisk/footnote would be sufficient here) and the Blessing of Unions & Blessing of Marriage should be changed to "varies."  For example, as an Episcopal Priest in a Diocese in the South, our Bishop would not allow a blessing or a union or the ordination of a non-celibate homosexual.  Likewise, there are many other dioceses with similar positions.  It wouldn't do any good to list them, however, because these decisions are largely in the hands of the Bishops, and there are changes and elections frequently.
You can see from the following articles that while the allowance of blessing same sex unions or marriages is spreading within the Episcopal Church, it is by no means uniform across the country:
Bishop Gulick allows *private* blessings in Ky
San Joaquin OKs Same-Sex blessings
Bishop Bauerschmidt's Theological Reflection for the House of Bishop's, September 2010
While I don't have first-hand knowledge since I am not an ELCA pastor, I would say that it would also be more grounded in reality to say "varies" under the "blesses unions" section for the ELCA, as I do not believe that such blessings have been approved by all of their Synods.  That would be something to check on.
99.106.144.47 (talk) 21:55, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ordination, Blessing Same-sex Unions or Same-sex marriage in the Episcopal Church 

message: This section has conflicting statements. Which one is it? Are they or are they not OK with homosexuality?? --Sabre ball t  c  18:22, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: They do not consider it sinful to be a celibate homosexual, but consider homosexual activity (and heterosexual activity outside of marriage) a sin. 72Dino (talk) 19:37, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints 

message: Same-sex marriage has recently been approved in Denmark and the Church of Denmark are marrying people of the same gender. That should be updated in the list.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Niceley (talk • contribs) 20:33, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Church of Denmark 

message: Undid revision by user Thomasjj70, whose insertion was intended to specify that the independent Catholic Churches are not affiliated with the Roman Catholic Church. This seemed redundant, as the word independent implies lack of affiliation with other organizations. Tried to include this explanation when I undid the revision, but sometimes my laptop gets "enter happy" and decides I'm done typing before I actually am.BroWCarey (talk) 00:41, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Independent Catholic Churches 

message: User:Roccodrift, please discuss your suggested changes here and gain some sort of consensus before editing the article. MilesMoney (talk) 22:37, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  BRD for Roccodrift 

message: I think that this list should also include the CMA's position on homosexuality. Can someone add it?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 154.5.121.250 (talk) 22:12, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree. I was looking for this and it wasn't listed. 96.11.186.50 (talk) 13:02, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Christian & Missionary Alliance 

message: I tend to use Wikipedia as a quick reference, and many other people do as well. With that in mind... wouldn't it make more sense to put the table at the top and the detailed descriptions at the bottom? Johnd39 (talk) 01:38, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page layout 

message: Suggestion regarding the wording for Roman Catholicism in the table: I would recommend "Denied the Eucharist" over "Denied the Sacraments", since this is a complicated issue. In short, the sacraments are only denied (in an authoritarian way) to those who consistently and publicly dissent from Church teaching (and so would likely still be administered to those who engage in same-sex sex-acts, but privately, since the priest does not ask about sex-lives before giving out the host). The Eucharist is the only sacrament a person would be asked to deny themselves if they are committing mortal sin (which is how the Church would categorize same-sex sex-acts). 
Otherwise, of the two other repeatable sacraments (Confession and Anointing of the Sick), neither would be denied someone engaging in same-sex relations (though, since both involves the forgiveness of sins, there is a gray area depending on how said person thinks about same-sex sex-acts, whether they are repentant for them or not, and how the priest decides to address that in the confessional). Of the non-repeatable sacraments (Baptism, Confirmation, Marriage, and Orders), the first two would likely still be administered, unless the person in question was continually making public statements contrary to the Church's teaching on same-sex attraction, and the second two would not (since one requires celibacy, and the other requires procreative sex, neither of which are compatible to same-sex sex-acts).
But above all, I do not like the wording because I am a Roman Catholic seminarian and I would never want someone engaging in same-sex sex-acts to think that Confession would be denied them, should they desire it. There are same-sex attracted Catholics who do try to live celibately and they need the grace of Confession to live that difficult choice.
Jhm718 (talk) 18:00, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Roman Catholicism: "Denied the Sacraments" 

message: Can we get a Presbyterian who understands denominational structure/politics to update the Presbyterian information based on the new PC-USA vote?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/19/presbyterian-church-gay-marriage_n_5512756.html
Jhm718 (talk) 18:03, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Presbyterian Church USA: June 2014 Update 

message: Could someone find a source for the blurb about vineyard churches, or otherwise remove that section?
160.34.110.111 (talk) 16:28, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed. However, rather than the extended quote, someone really should try to summarise this material. —Asterisk*Splat→ 18:10, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vineyard Churches 

message: The United Protestant Church of France and the United Protestant Church in Belgium allowed blessing of same-sex marriages and are both LGBT-friendly churches.
* Radio France: French Protestant church authorises gay marriages, May 2015
* Verenigde Protestantse Kerk staat inzegening homohuwelijk toe.
Timotagksor (talk) 23:47, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  LGBT-friendly churches in Belgium and France missing 

message: This section is unclear, inconsistent, and largely unreferenced. 
# It's unclear because, as far as I can tell, it doesn't seem to define who it counts as a gay person for the purposes of the first two columns ("Allows as members" and "Ordains"). Is it a man who's sexually attracted to men or a woman who's sexually attracted to women? A person who identifies as gay or lesbian? A woman who has sex with women or a man who has sex with men? I know of no major denomination that withholds membership from Christians meeting the first or second definitions (sexual attractions or self-identification respectively) solely on either of those bases, and none of the article's references that I've read (or tried to read) have led me to believe otherwise.
# It's inconsistent -- perhaps because of its lack of clarity -- in things like needing to bracket the Catholic Church's "Yes" with an "expects celibacy of homosexuals, considers homosexual acts gravely sinful", and the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)'s "Yes" with a "General Assembly has affirmed all orientations; local regions and congregations can make their own choice". 
# And finally, it's largely unreferenced in that many of the entries are completely unreferenced (whence the Eastern Orthodox Church's "Yes (But are denied Holy Sacraments until full repentance)", for example?), and many of the referenced links are now dead.
I'll try spending some time over the next few days to address these issues. As usual, feel free to message me or comment here if you have any issues with the changes I make.
~ Hairouna (talk) 18:21, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  The section/table "Summary of denominational positions in North America and Europe" 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The statement in the article "The Orthodox Church holds the opinion that sexuality, as we understand it, is part of the fallen world only." is either a poorly attributed quote, or a piece of editorialism provided by whomever added it.
211.27.59.88 (talk) 06:42, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clearly editorialism 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The Roman Catholic Church is not a break away church from what Jesus Christ began.  Therefore, it cannot be considered a denomination.  After all, what did it break away from?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.183.179.38 (talk) 01:32, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: To get the terminology straight, while Roman Catholicism is not a Christian denomination, the Catholic Church could be considered as one. It is merely a reference to the organisational entity. It does not connote anything pertaining to ecclesiology. Chicbyaccident (talk) 05:39, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Using the definition in the article Christian denomination, "a distinct religious body within Christianity," as well as the definition from the Oxford Dictionaries, "a recognized autonomous branch of the Christian Church,"  Roman Catholicism is indeed a denomination, since it is, in fact, a distinct religious body and autonomous branch within Christianity. But you are correct that calling it a denomination doesn't signify anything in relation to ecclesiology. The word denomination is applied to any organization or body of churches within Christianity. Christianity itself is divided into branches, i.e., different types of Christians (Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, and a number of others), and within each branch, there are often numerous denominations. (For example, there are a number of different Catholic denominations, Orthodox denominations, Protestant denominations, etc.) Whether any particular church rejects the term denomination (usually in favor of viewing itself as the "original"), the fact is that, by definition, the term denomination does apply. BroWCarey (talk) 06:38, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Roman Catholicism is not a denomination. 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I believe the table at the bottom of the page needs a bit of an overhaul.
Firstly, the column headings do not make it clear to all editors that the table relates to the churches' positions w.r.t. practicing homosexuals (as opposed to people who merely are homosexual).  The opening sentence prior to the table makes it clear that the table is about people who are in homosexual unions (whether formalised or otherwise), but I suspect quite a few people might not read that sentence and simply read the column headings.
Secondly, I believe the column about "blessing" (i.e. holding wedding-like ceremonies for gays) may be too culturally specific.  It is my impression that the two column "blessing" relates to whether the church offers a ceremony that is wedding-like but which is not a legal marriage, and the "marriage" column is specific to countries where homosexuals can legally get married (including civil unions), and the question is whether the church accepts and/or performs such marriage ceremonies.  Do you agree with my understanding?
Thirdly, since this article is about positions on homosexuality and not just about homosexual relationships, I think the table should contain a column for churches' position on homosexuality as a sexual orientation. -- leuce (talk) 15:39, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Overhaul of table at the bottom 

message: Although many Christians belong to Oriental Orthodox Churches, the list does not mention their position on homosexuality, which is absurd (Jehovah's Witnesses's position is listed, yet much fewer Christians belong to them).--RekishiEJ (talk) 16:17, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a rather confusing move that you've come to the talk page to point this out rather than make any attempt to add the information yourself. Do you believe it's controversial or requires discussion of some kind? -- Fyrael (talk) 20:30, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Because I don't believe in Oriental Orthodoxy, and don't have much time researching their stance on homosexuality.--RekishiEJ (talk) 07:32, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  This list is not comprehensive enough 

message: Why is The Salvation Army not listed? 2600:8806:9118:EE00:1E7:95:1CCD:5ECA (talk) 15:23, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Salvation Army 

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