Talk:Portuguese alphabet

message: I've recorded and added to the article the sounds of the Portuguese alphabet as spoken by a northeastern Brazilian. Denisxavier (talk) 00:12, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Letter sounds as spoken by a northestern brazilian

message: Give me three examples for each digraph and trigraph:
XC
ZZ
TCH
I'm portuguese and never saw such things! Oh, and SC is more like spelling s-sh fast, with a very short s (s from sun and sh from shoe). For example, "nascer" and "lascívia". In fact, many linguistics say it's what derived our most common sound for X (sh), which is better aknowledged if we hear most portuguese people say "nascer", for instance.
Do brazillian people say "seção" the same way they say "sessão"? In Portugal, we have "secção", for which the first C is not mute, and it indicates an accented E, which would be said, for brazillians, "sécssão".
--
I think XC happens relatively often in Portuguese:
excelente
exceção
excesso
excêntrico
etc.
ZZ and TCH are explained in the article and are not used often.
In Brazil, SC is pronounced as if it were simply C (=SS), not as X (where X corresponds to SH in English). I don't know what linguists have to say about this difference. This is not taught to us in school, so it would be regarded as "wrong pronunciation" by us. To me, it's somewhat funny to hear "pixina" instead of "pissina" for the word PISCINA (swimming pool)... 
"Seção" (section) and "sessão" (session) are pronounced the same way in Brazil. Sometimes it's hard to remember which one is the correct spelling. "Accented E" in the word "secção"??? That sounds weird to me, but i must admit i don't hear European Portuguese dialect much.
--Yuu en 23:58, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: When I was at school (in Brazil) I did learn that "sce" and "sci" should be pronounced "sse" and "ssi".  If they are [ʃe] and [ʃi] in Portugal, we must note that in the article. Jorge Stolfi 07:56, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "Illegal"polygraphs

message: :The tilde (til) is used over the vowels "A" and "O" to indicate two additional "nasalized" vowel sounds, which are a characteristic feature of Portuguese among the Romance languages. 
I guess it should be saying that the tilded letters are characteristic, no the nasal sounds.
Doesn't French have a set of nasals?
--Error 01:21, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: French has a four of nasals, but we have none of them in Portuguese. José San Martin 14:15, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Which one? José San Martin 23:52, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Nasals

message: "Indeed, much of the orthographic complexity of the language results from the struggle by the national spelling reform authorities to define a single written language for the whole Lusitanic or Lusophone community."
The successive spelling reforms have in fact simplified the spelling, by reducing the number of diacritics and silent consonants, not complicated it. FilipeS 20:46, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The alleged complexity of the orthography

message: This article is far too long and needlessly complicated. Compare it with other articles for language alphabets. It needs to be severely scaled down. FilipeS 19:18, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Article in need of slimming

message: I've made a major cleanup, but the article still seems too large for an alphabet. Sigh. Perhaps "Portuguese orthography" does deserve an article of its own. FilipeS 21:49, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Cleanup and split

message: Portuguese keyboard layout seems to have been merged here. How come? Since the keyboard layout is such a clear, concrete, well-defined topic, it would seem better off as a distinct article, to me. And it doesn't really have much to do with the "alphabet" per se. Stevage 00:07, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry about the lateness of the reply. I don't know. What you say makes some sense, but then I don't see that many independent articles for keyboard layouts at :Category:Keyboard layouts... FilipeS 22:25, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why merge? 

message: Guys, and the portuguese digraphs...? E.g.: ss, rr, sc, qu, gu, lh, nh, etc.
The pronunciation of digraphs are similary a independent letters.
--201.19.189.38 02:39, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: They are not counted as letters in the Portuguese orthography. Nevertheless, I've brought them back, though I must say I'm still unsure on what to bring here, and what to keep at Portuguese orthography. FilipeS 21:33, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Digraphs 

message: From January they add three letters.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.86.104.115 (talk) 01:21, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It isn't official yet. FilipeS (talk) 15:43, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It is official from 2009!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.0.54.25 (talk) 07:24, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Wrong, and the article introduction was wrong. I've now corrected it: only 23 letters in Portugal until the 1990 Agreement becomes law, expected sometime in 2009. Someone please check for inconsistencies in the rest of the article. --maf (talk-cont) 11:25, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: In fact, only in Brazil the Portuguese Alphabet has 26 letters, since 1990 Agreement became law (approved in September 2008) in January 1st, 2009. But old 23-letter alphabet (from 1943 Orthographic Statute - valid only in Brazil) remains valid until December 31, 2012. Thenceforth, Brazil will have only a 26-letter alphabet and the other countries will remain with 23-letter one. Fasouzafreitas (talk) 12:18, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Portuguese alphabet consists of the following 26 Latin letters 

message: :At the start of syllables (in all dialects) or at the end of syllables (in some dialects of BP), a single r is pronounced /ʁ/ (see the notes on the Consonants below, for variants of this sound). Elsewhere, it is pronounced /ɾ/. Word final rhotics may also be silent when the last syllables is stressed, in casual speech, especially in Brazil (states of Minas Gerais and Rio de Janeiro) and some African countries.
I believe there is an error. I thought those single r's are pronounced /ʁ/ in places like portugal. That in Brasil it is pronounced like /χ/, with some pronouncing it even closer to /h/. If I had a reference handy I would cite it and make the change myself. Sorry to push work off like that :)  --— robbiemuffin page talk 11:51, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: If you're talking about word final "r", it's not an error. FilipeS (talk) 16:27, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

text: It is not in all Brazilian dialects. In Rio de Janeiro the  is clearly gutural rangido, that is, a "trilled guttural". Ask any carioca how he or she would pronounce rindo, raio, rua, roça, rã, horrendo and marrom. The  is limited to a few words as mesmo (giggles). I think that this transcription is dominant exactly because fluminense is the standard dialect of Brazilian Portuguese for all phonemes but /s/ and /ɐ/ where we are said to approach Portugal too much. And since it is deemed as the same phoneme of nadar no mar or tirar do armário (/silent, ,  and  here respectively), the transcriptions use the standard . The same happens in Portugal, where the phonemes are not our , , , , , , etc. but , ,  and recently . That is, in both countries, the guttural rhotic can be pronounced in a wide diversity of ways, so there is a single symbol to represent all those sounds which occupy the same place in the Portuguese language. Lguipontes (talk) 12:02, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  R