Talk:Afro–Latin Americans

message: "Afro-Latin American" is also a gender-neutral term. There's no reason stated in the article that this is different enough to warrant a separate article. ... discospinster talk 20:40, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Turns out there's a separate article at . I've re-targeted the above redirects there. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 21:51, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed merge with [[Afro-Latinx]] 

message: The term may indeed be noteworthy, but Medium is a poor source, since it's self-published. The Google Scholar results above are essentially primary sources for the usage as well. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 18:16, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it shows that the word is commonly used. The article is not about whether Afro-Latinx is noteworthy or notable, the word is included because it is a term that is used in many places, whether it's preferred or not. ... discospinster talk 18:28, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  By "noteworthy", I just mean worthy of inclusion within the article, not "notable" in the WP-jargon sense. Regardless, we still need a reliable, independent source commenting directly on the usage to satisfy due weight requirements. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 18:44, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Does that also apply to "Black Latin American" and "Afro Latino"? ... discospinster talk 19:27, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Ideally, yes. See my comment under  above. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 21:12, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

text:  the NYU source is a two-hour video of a virtual symposium; if anything, it's a primary source for any statements made in it. Where does the video say anything about the meaning of Afro-Latinx, let alone that Afro-Latinx is synonymous with Afro–Latin American? —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 23:34, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

text:  The paper by Vidal-Ortiz & Martínez (2018) is a secondary source for Latinx, but not Afro-Latinx. The latter term appears only in a brief mention at the end, as the authors say, "to further incite the conversation  on the possibilities and challenges of Latinx", where they pose the question whether Afro-Latinx conflicts with the goal of inclusivity in using Latinx. There's no evaluation or analysis, just a question. We don't know from this source how prevalent use of Afro-Latinx is or even its precise meaning. However, given that the authors specifically make a distinction between "Latina/o/x" and "Latin American", we can safely assume they mean "Afro-Latinx" to denote Black Hispanic and Latino Americans rather than Afro–Latin Americans. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 01:35, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

text: I think I just explained that the Vidal-Ortiz source does not show that the terms are synonymous. I asked where the NYU symposium video supports that claim, but didn't receive an answer. I'm not sure how reliable Oprah Magazine is considered to be for sociological topics, but I suspect it's on the same level as most mass-market women's magazines, which is to say, not very. At any rate, the source you added seems to conflate Latin Americans with Latinos, defining "Afro-Latinx" people as "descendants of Latin America with African roots", "Latin American[s] of African descent", and "Black Latinos" interchangeably. We already have an article on Black Latinos at . Given the sources we have, listing Afro-Latinx as a synonym of Afro–Latin American seems unduly weighted at best, and at worst simply incorrect. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 09:17, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: It is absolutely correct and just as relevant as the inclusion of "Afro-Latino", of which it is a synonym, as shown in the sources. ... discospinster talk 15:02, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Where in the sources? —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 15:18, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know if you're being deliberately obtuse but I will repeat, "Afro-Latinx" is absolutely correct and relevant to the article, whether or not it is acceptable to you. ... discospinster talk 15:44, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: It doesn't matter what you or I think is correct. I'll ask once again, where do the sources say this? —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 16:02, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm done trying to justify this to you. I have provided multiple sources which all seem to have a fatal flaw according to you. If you have a problem with the inclusion of Afro-Latinx as a synonym, I suggest you take it up in dispute resolution. ... discospinster talk 16:38, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Good idea. Would you agree to a third opinion request? —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 16:46, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

text: Here's my proposed request for listing at WP:30#Active disagreements:  Thoughts? —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 02:32, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: That's fine. ... discospinster talk 14:30, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Third opinion  In some ways, I think this might be the wrong page to be having this discussion on. I note that Latino (demonym) doesn't even mention Latinx in the lead (though it does briefly in the body). The main article for Black Hispanic and Latino Americans doesn't have it either. I think it should probably be discussed in the context of those broader articles before it is in a country specific article like this one. I don't think there is going to be a lot of literature for Afro-Latinx, but there seems to be no shortage discussing just Latinx. I don't think its a leap to take the primary sources we have for Afro-Latinx and combine them with the already broad literature on Latinx to justify inclusion. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 21:19, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  just to clarify, do you mean inclusion on the other pages you mention, not on this one? What about on ? —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 02:47, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: , I mean inclusion on this page. Although now that you mention it, I could also see "Afro-Latinx" being discussed on the Latinx page itself. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 02:50, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, but I'm still not convinced that most of these sources are using "Afro-Latinx" to mean Afro–Latin Americans. The essays on The Root (contrasting "Afro-Latinx" with "African American") and Medium are about Afro-Latinos in the US. Vidal-Ortiz & Martínez (2018) are careful to distinguish "Latina/o/x" from "Latin American". Oprah Magazine seems to conflate Latin Americans with Latinos. All the sources are written for a primarily Anglo–North American audience. While there's some genuine overlap, the sources seem to focus mainly on Black Hispanic and Latino Americans when discussing Afro-Latinx identity. Therefore I still think listing the term in the lead would be a form of undue weight. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 03:24, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: "Afro-Latinx" in lead

message: * 
This book is free to read at Open Library. Could be useful for building the article. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 21:18, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Andrews, 2004 

message: :The article has several issues including: 1)- failed verification (December 2010), 2)- unsourced statements (June 2011, October 2015, December 2015, February 2016, January 2021, 3)- needing page number citations (October 2015), and 4)- needing additional references (February 2023)
:The criteria #1 states; , and #4, 
:Reassess article to C-class.  
===External links===
:There are twenty entries in the "External links". Three seems to be an acceptable number and of course, everyone has their favorite to add for four. The problem is that none is needed for article promotion. 
*ELpoints #3) states: 
*LINKFARM states: 
*WP:ELMIN: . 
*WP:ELCITE: 
*WP:ELBURDEN:   
:Note: moved from article "External links" as possible future references
* Afro Mexico or Bobby Vaughn's The Black Mexico website
* Latin American Network Information Center's (LANIC) African Diaspora webpage with links to various websites (LANIC is affiliated with the University of Texas at Austin)
* Cowater International Inc of Ottawa's preliminary report (1996) for the Inter-American Development Bank entitled: "Poverty Alleviation Program for Minority Communities in Latin America—Communities of African Ancestry in Latin America: History, Population, Contributions, & Social Attitudes (Social and Economic Conditions with Partial Bibliography)". This report is 188 pages long and contains history of Spain and Latin America, the African contributions to Latin America and (pp. 46–61 in Acrobat; or pp. 31–46 in the document) is entitled "Analysis of Social Attitudes Towards Afro-Latin Americans".
* Clare Ribando, CRS Report for Congress: Afro-Latinos in Latin America and Considerations for U.S. Policy, Congressional Research Service, The Library of Congress (4 January 2005).
* The Inter-Agency Consultation on Race in Latin America (IAC) (archived from the original on 2007-05-07)
* English version of Judith Morrison's Presentation to the Inter-American Dialogue's Working Group session (held on 23 September 2005) in Microsoft Word format. (archived from the original on 2008-06-25) Morrison is the executive director or the Inter-Agency Consultation on Race in Latin America.
* Judith Morrison, "The High Cost of Discrimination in Latin America" (2005).
* Jere R. Behrman, Alejandro Gaviria, and Miguel Székely's "Social Exclusion in Latin America: Introduction and Overview" report for the Inter-American Development Bank.
* David de Ferranti's (former Regional Vice President of the World Bank, Latin America & the Caribbean) remarks of 18 June 2002 to the Annual Meeting of the Inter-Agency Consultation on Race in Latin America: "Advancing Public Policy for Afro-Descendents in Latin America: Social and Economic Development, Legal Issues and Human Rights"
* Josefina Stubbs, "Afro-descendants in Latin America: Poverty, Inequality and Discrimination".
* Tanya K. Hernández' (Professor of Law & Justice, Frederick Hall Scholar, Rutgers University School of Law) speech given 28 November 2005, Washington, DC: "Discrimination and Education in Latin-America" The speech was given at the Special Meeting to Examine and Discuss the Nature of a Future Inter-American Convention Against Racism and All Forms of Discrimination and Intolerance.
* The multiple author publication "Race and Poverty: Interagency Consultation on Afro-Latin Americans (LCR Sustainable Development Working Paper No. 9)" published November 2000 by the Inter-American Dialogue, Inter-American Development Bank, and the World Bank of their roundtable's proceedings held 19 June 2000 in Washington, D.C. (archived from the original on 2007-08-09).
* Peggy A. Lovell, "Gender, Race, and the Struggle for Social Justice in Brazil," Latin American Perspectives (November 2000), pages 85–103.
* Maria do Carmo Leal, Silvana Granado Nogueira da Gama and Cynthia Braga da Cunha, "Racial, sociodemographic, and prenatal and childbirth care inequalities in Brazil, 1999–2001," Revista de Saúde Pública, vol. 39, no. 1 (São Paulo, February 2005).
* "Palenque San Basilio, Bolivar, Maroon Community in Colombia" (CNN video of Afro-Colombian community).
* The World Bank's Sector Report "The Gap Matters: poverty and well-being of Afro-Colombians and indigenous peoples" Click here for the report
*Law 70 of Colombia (1993): In Recognition of the Right of Black Colombians to Collectively Own and Occupy their Ancestral Lands. English Translation (April 2007)  --  Otr500 (talk) 15:06, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Article issues and classification

message: :There are twenty entries in the "External links". Three seems to be an acceptable number and of course, everyone has their favorite to add for four. The problem is that none is needed for article promotion. 
*ELpoints #3) states: 
*LINKFARM states: 
*WP:ELMIN: . 
*WP:ELCITE: 
*WP:ELBURDEN:   
:Note: moved from article "External links" as possible future references
* Afro Mexico or Bobby Vaughn's The Black Mexico website
* Latin American Network Information Center's (LANIC) African Diaspora webpage with links to various websites (LANIC is affiliated with the University of Texas at Austin)
* Cowater International Inc of Ottawa's preliminary report (1996) for the Inter-American Development Bank entitled: "Poverty Alleviation Program for Minority Communities in Latin America—Communities of African Ancestry in Latin America: History, Population, Contributions, & Social Attitudes (Social and Economic Conditions with Partial Bibliography)". This report is 188 pages long and contains history of Spain and Latin America, the African contributions to Latin America and (pp. 46–61 in Acrobat; or pp. 31–46 in the document) is entitled "Analysis of Social Attitudes Towards Afro-Latin Americans".
* Clare Ribando, CRS Report for Congress: Afro-Latinos in Latin America and Considerations for U.S. Policy, Congressional Research Service, The Library of Congress (4 January 2005).
* The Inter-Agency Consultation on Race in Latin America (IAC) (archived from the original on 2007-05-07)
* English version of Judith Morrison's Presentation to the Inter-American Dialogue's Working Group session (held on 23 September 2005) in Microsoft Word format. (archived from the original on 2008-06-25) Morrison is the executive director or the Inter-Agency Consultation on Race in Latin America.
* Judith Morrison, "The High Cost of Discrimination in Latin America" (2005).
* Jere R. Behrman, Alejandro Gaviria, and Miguel Székely's "Social Exclusion in Latin America: Introduction and Overview" report for the Inter-American Development Bank.
* David de Ferranti's (former Regional Vice President of the World Bank, Latin America & the Caribbean) remarks of 18 June 2002 to the Annual Meeting of the Inter-Agency Consultation on Race in Latin America: "Advancing Public Policy for Afro-Descendents in Latin America: Social and Economic Development, Legal Issues and Human Rights"
* Josefina Stubbs, "Afro-descendants in Latin America: Poverty, Inequality and Discrimination".
* Tanya K. Hernández' (Professor of Law & Justice, Frederick Hall Scholar, Rutgers University School of Law) speech given 28 November 2005, Washington, DC: "Discrimination and Education in Latin-America" The speech was given at the Special Meeting to Examine and Discuss the Nature of a Future Inter-American Convention Against Racism and All Forms of Discrimination and Intolerance.
* The multiple author publication "Race and Poverty: Interagency Consultation on Afro-Latin Americans (LCR Sustainable Development Working Paper No. 9)" published November 2000 by the Inter-American Dialogue, Inter-American Development Bank, and the World Bank of their roundtable's proceedings held 19 June 2000 in Washington, D.C. (archived from the original on 2007-08-09).
* Peggy A. Lovell, "Gender, Race, and the Struggle for Social Justice in Brazil," Latin American Perspectives (November 2000), pages 85–103.
* Maria do Carmo Leal, Silvana Granado Nogueira da Gama and Cynthia Braga da Cunha, "Racial, sociodemographic, and prenatal and childbirth care inequalities in Brazil, 1999–2001," Revista de Saúde Pública, vol. 39, no. 1 (São Paulo, February 2005).
* "Palenque San Basilio, Bolivar, Maroon Community in Colombia" (CNN video of Afro-Colombian community).
* The World Bank's Sector Report "The Gap Matters: poverty and well-being of Afro-Colombians and indigenous peoples" Click here for the report
*Law 70 of Colombia (1993): In Recognition of the Right of Black Colombians to Collectively Own and Occupy their Ancestral Lands. English Translation (April 2007)  --  Otr500 (talk) 15:06, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: External links