Talk:Barack Obama 2008 presidential primary campaign

message: I think there should be a mention of field staff in the staff section -- pehaps Paul Tewes and Mitch Stewart. I didn't want to add much to an already long article, but a sentence might do it. What do others think? Gilbertine goldmark (talk) 21:01, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  campaign staff 

message: I have uploaded a picture I took of Obama shaking hands with an impromptu crowd in Portland, Oregon as he was leaving his hotel last Saturday afternoon and going to an event.  It's at :Image:Barack Obama shaking hands, Portland, Oregon.jpg --Jason McHuff (talk) 20:26, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture of Obama shaking hands uploaded 

message: Both Meeks and Pfleger have received broad attention and warrant coverage in the article. The article is incomplete without them. Trilemma (talk) 15:30, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Additional controversies 

message: I've added information to the article that shoots down the idea that is going around that the KKK is actually supporting Barack for president.  One of the sources comes from Obama's own website.  Someone keeps deleting the info as "non-notable", "poorly referenced", etc.  5 references for 4 sentences of text is poor referencing?  I give up guys, if you all would prefer that people believe the incorrect info of the Klan endorsement like so many folks do right now then so be it. Sf46 (talk) 22:18, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Snopes and Urbanlegends are in the business of shooting down nonsense.  The Daily Squib is a tabloid.  The Obama site you linked to is a community blog, not an official publication by the Obama campaign.  Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a place for tabloid material or nonsense.  johnpseudo 22:29, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bogus KKK endorsement 

message: As it now appears that Obama is fairly certain to be the Democratic Party candidate for president, what is everyone's thoughts on splitting this article into smaller sub-articles? This article is already rather large with 76kb of readable prose and there is bound to be additional developments that will come in the general election portion of the campaign. --Bobblehead (rants) 23:42, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree completely, and I think that we'll have to drastically cut this article to prepare it for another 5 months of developments. The primary/caucus section could definitely use the most summarization work. johnpseudo 00:01, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Obviously I've started splitting the article into two. I've started off with the low hanging fruit, but I have some concerns. I'm thinking the Pre-Primary Campaign developments section should be moved into the primaries sub-article, but I'm starting to get concerned that if I pile too much of this article into the primary article, we'll end up with a 4-5 paragraph section for all of the primary/caucus portion of the campaigning, a 4-5 paragraph section for the general election, and 30 paragraphs for the media coverage, the "issues" section, and the internet section. The media coverage and "issues" section certainly contains things that will end up crossing both the primary and general elections, but it just feels off to ignore them in the primary article and to give them so much weight in this article. Does anyone have any ideas on how we should handle this? --Bobblehead (rants) 00:48, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't go with a three-level structure.  Have the main Barack Obama article serve as the summary for both the primary article and the general election article.  Have media coverage, etc. sections in both as appropriate.  Creating a three-level structure will be a ton of redundancy, extra work, citation maintenance, out-of-synch contents, etc.  Wasted Time R (talk) 00:56, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Oooo. Excellent idea. ;) Time to start undoing what I did. Hee.;) --Bobblehead (rants) 01:43, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yup. You didn't see that splitting I did.;) Call me speedy. --Bobblehead (rants) 01:52, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

text: Great idea and thanks for the effort.  Is that the way it's done for other major party Presidential candidates?  We should be consistent, but that seems like the right thing to do.  Just a little caution - don't jump the gun.  Wait until Hillary concedes....  Wikidemo (talk) 01:25, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

text: I thought that the obvious place to move all of the primary material would be 'Democratic Party (United States) presidential primaries, 2008'. I agree that creating sub-articles from here would create too much link depth from the Barack Obama article.  I'm afraid it's going to take a lot more summarization work and less wholesale cut-and-pasting. johnpseudo 01:27, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

text: I concur - there should be two articles - one for the primary race and one for the general election. --Mr Beale (talk) 21:23, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ok, I went and started this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_presidential_campaign%2C_2008%2C_General_Election
Gilbertine goldmark (talk) 23:31, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Splitting article 

message: Larry Sinclair is a man that claims he did crack and performed oral sex with Barack Obama in the back of a limo in 1999. Oh yeah, and Obama may have murdered a choir boy close to Christmas. Here's his blog. Though his accusations have been circulating the internet and tabloid magazines for months, they're just now making a few minor news sources. Someone referenced it in the article, but I removed it because right now I think it's just gossip. Any opinions? - Kip the Dip (talk) 05:13, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This is all just the word of one man who has a long and well-documented history of convictions for fraud.  He also has a outstanding warrant out for his arrest in Colorado, and has been accused of writing a bad check just last year in Laredo, Texas.  This story isn't making the news anywhere except on fringe websites and blogs, and if you check back, there is *less* coverage now that there was back when he first came forward.  There is absolutely no reason to include this story in the article.  There is not a shred of corroborating evidence to back up his claims.24.28.2.19 (talk) 01:38, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, yes. Believe me, you're preaching to the choir. I just want to hear others' opinions. - Kip the Dip (talk) 02:28, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

text: Someone wrote an independent article on Larry, it went to afd and was deleted as BLP violation. It is in deletion review now. It seems he has gotten enough press that maybe it should be mentioned in the viral video section. GtstrickyTalk or C 02:28, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Larry Sinclair 

message: This article under "media coverage" discusses the Republican National Committee criticism of Obama's claim that his uncle helped liberate Auschwitz. The Wikipedia article Ohrdruf forced labor camp about the camp (part of the Buchenwald system) had a recent posting stating that Obama's claim was a complete lie, based on material which has been on certain right wing blogs claiming that he had no great uncle in the army in WW2, based on original research into records from various sources. The claim was that his great uncle was Charles W. Payne, and that Charles W. Payne from Kansas was in the Navy. An obituary of that Charles W. Payne shows he was no great uncle of Obama.   Politifact.com,  from the St. Petersburg Times investigated and it seems that Charles Thomas Payne, a living person (age 83) is the great uncle in question, and served in the 89th Infantry which liberated the Ohrdruf camp. How much, if any, of this should be in this article? It could be of encyclopedic importance if claims that "Obama is a liar" are based on people's interpretation of inaccurate and incomplete genealogical and military records. Edison (talk) 17:32, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: A better online source for that St. Petersburg Times story is at www.pulitzer.org. Mike Serfas (talk) 01:06, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

text: One hint could be that blogs are not reliable sources and the fact that they got the wrong Thomas Payne is a pretty good vindication of this.  Once Obama admitted he misspoke about which camp his great uncle was part of liberating the story pretty much became a non-issue. --Bobblehead (rants) 17:49, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The Republican National Committee and/or conservative bloggers seem to be pushing the meme that "Obama exaggerates and lies all the time" and the Auschwitz/uncle item seems to be a major focus of this effort , much like the campaign talking point against Kerry was that he "flip-flopped." Googling Obama uncle lie gets 163,000 hits, many about the Auschwitz/Ohrfruf uncle/great-uncle incident. If exaggeration/lies is the meme of choice then this episode needs coverage in the article. Edison (talk) 17:59, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There is already a paragraph in the Media coverage section that covers the misstatement and then the correction. The blogs getting the wrong person isn't a particularly important part of the issue. --Bobblehead (rants) 18:08, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The important part is the massive spinning of the meme that Obama lied and exaggerated, with ridicule of his having a secret uncle no one ever heard of who liberated Auschwitz with the Red Army, or a great uncle who liberated Nazi concentration camps in Europe from a ship in the Pacific. Recent presidential campaigns have been based largely on attack ads and talking points based on memes such as the supposed Kerry "flip-flops."  Edison (talk) 20:40, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Obama's great uncle and the Nazi labor camp 

message: Maybe we should split the primary and general election parts of the campaign into two articles.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.34.11.170 (talk) 21:24, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: All right, I got bored and started this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_presidential_campaign%2C_2008%2C_General_Election
Gilbertine goldmark (talk) 23:32, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think this page should be a the main article and it will lead into something like how Presidency of George W. Bush leads into George W. Bush's first term as President of the United States and George W. Bush's second term as President of the United States, or even History of the New York Giants leads into articles like History of the New York Giants (1994-present). It will be the main article, but split it into Barack Obama presidential campaign, 2008, primary elections and Barack Obama presidential campaign, 2008, general election. Of couse, we'll maybe do the same thing with McCain even though his primary season was much shorter than Obama's, just to be unbiased, ya know. conman33 (. . .talk) 20:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Not a fan of the names, but there really needs to be some way to split this article into smaller parts.  One of the suggestions above was to actually do the splitting on Barack Obama, so you wouldn't end up with a third tier of articles for the details about the primary and general election.  It could be as simple as making this article the primary article (may I suggest Barack Obama Democratic Party primary presidential campaign, 2008) and then creating a new article for Barack Obama general election presidential campaign, 2008 for whatever happens from this point on. --Bobblehead (rants) 01:56, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The article I created was Barack Obama presidential campaign, 2008, General Election. I encourage people to go edit on it. Gilbertine goldmark (talk) 02:43, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

text: I tend to agree.  These articles are plagued with recentism and there is a constant push to add paragraphs about whatever happens to be in the news that day.  We really should be editing these articles from a historical perspective (writing it as it might be written ten years from now) now as a breathless account of the latest developments.  As we all know, Wikipedia is not news. --Loonymonkey (talk) 15:58, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  separate General election sub-article 

message: There seems to be some consensus for splitting the article along primary/general election lines.  Given this, I think we should achieve some consensus for how this will be organized.  Conflicting content forks are being created and there is no organized method to it.  Also, as has been stated above, part of the reason this article is becoming too long is because it needs to be edited down.  There is a lot of recentism that would never be mentioned in an encyclopedia article a couple of years after the fact.  
The options that have been discussed are:
* Option 1  Leave this article as the sole campaign article but trim it.
* Option 2  Create a separate article that deals with the general election (this has already been done) and keep this article for the primary and caucuses.
* Option 3  Create two separate articles, one for the primaries and one for the general election which are both daughters of this article.  
My feeling is that Option 1 would be best, but will probably lead to unnecessary edit-warring.  Given that, I would support trimming what we can but also creating a new article for the general election (option 2).  --Loonymonkey (talk) 16:13, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: A generous amount of trimming is certainly in order, but I don't think enough trimming can be done to eliminate the need for separate primary and general election articles, so I'm for Option 2. Move this article to Barack Obama Democratic Party presidential campaign, 2008 or the like and then a bunch of work on the general election article to expand it beyond its current stub form. As far as linking from the main article, it could be as simple as just putting  --Bobblehead (rants) 16:21, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm personally for Option 1 for my reasons in the above section; we need to be writing from a historical comprehansive standpoint, rather than as this week's news source. Wizardman 18:06, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article splitting 

message: :What I see is you, a partisan self-declared Obama supporter, and two other editors subverting normal process and order. The McCain article has a section on dissent within his own party and this article should have the same. It is not trivia, it is news. Please do not insist on pushing your POV. Trilemma (talk) 03:50, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I resent your suggestion that I'm not acting in good faith, and the condition of the John McCain article is irrelevant to this discussion.  When 2-3 representatives out of the hundreds of democratic representatives are reluctant to "endorse" Obama, but they still plan on voting for him, that is trivial.  It happens in every presidential election, often to a much higher degree.  This article does a good job at explaining how this is not a story, and how your roundup of "several" unsupportive Democrats (3) is insignificant compared to the number of Republicans not supporting McCain (14).  Incidentally, the Jim Johnson story is a larger story that has gotten much more coverage and still hasn't been reported here.  Also- the NPOV flag shouldn't be used for a simple content dispute.  Consensus is against you that the article is neutral, but feel free to continue to debate. johnpseudo 04:08, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: For what it's worth, I have made my opinion known on the John McCain discussion page that an "Opposing Forces" section does not belong there either. However, it's also worth noting that even that section does NOT mention the aforementioned 14 republicans who won't endorse McCain. Gilbertine goldmark (talk) 13:41, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I have left an edit warring and civility caution for the editor who is inserting the controversial material repeatedly despite this discussion, without anything I can see as consensus.  I think it should be simply reverted again as a non-consensus change, but I do not wish to participate in anybody's edit war, even at 1RR.  I find persuasive the article that a list of people of the candidate's party who are not publicly supporting a candidate is trivial and unencyclopedic.  Wikidemo (talk) 23:55, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, Trilemma is exactly right here.Die4Dixie (talk) 08:12, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: "Opposing forces"

message: :My case for including a section on Democrats who are not supporting Obama is that there is a fairly extensive section in the John McCain section for 'opposing forces' which includes Ron Paul and 'conservatives.' I cited three different sources in my edit, showing that his has received significant enough media coverage to warrant inclusion. Trilemma (talk) 03:43, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Link to your edit so we know what in the world you're talking about.  -- SEWilco (talk) 16:21, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I believe this is the edit Trilemma is talking about:  --Bobblehead (rants) 17:32, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  As a  weight and relevancy issue, it is simply not a significant issue when someone of a given party publicly refuses to support a candidate of that party.  It happens all the time and it does not say anything significant about the candidacy.  Several articles, out of hundreds of thousands of articles about the campaign overall, does not establish importance.  Incidentally, an editor has just removed the corresponding section from the John McCain article, a bolder edit given the length of that section but I think the right thing to do there as well. Wikidemo (talk) 18:13, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: In addition to  weight, the edit has WP:OR problems (as well as sourcing issues, which could probably be addressed if the edit were otherwise fine). There are three different links (two from blogs) that mention each of the "opposition Democrats" individually, but there isn't any source that indicates that all three of them together are a problem for the campaign.  Trilemma has found these three different facts and put them together to create what seems like an issue. But that's original research.  At the very least we would need some reliable mainstream sources telling us that these three are a real problem for the Obama campaign, but even then the previously mentioned WP:WEIGHT issues would arise.  Would this really warrant a new section? Doubtful. And finally, I'm really not sure why Trilemma went straight to an RfC  without first simply attempting to discuss the issue here first.  It seems unwarranted at this point.  --Loonymonkey (talk) 14:46, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

text: Vote to includeDie4Dixie (talk) 08:14, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Just FYI, we don't decide things by voting, we achieve consensus through discussion. That's official wiki policy. --Loonymonkey (talk) 14:34, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request for comment 

message: At Talk:Barack Obama presidential campaign, 2008, General Election I've suggested a rename of that article to Barack Obama presidential campaign, 2008 and of this one to Barack Obama presidential primary election campaign, 2008]]. My rationale and full details of my suggestion are at Talk:Barack Obama presidential campaign, 2008, General Election. Given the potential impact of these changes I will not proceed without consensus, so please provide your opinion at Talk:Barack Obama presidential campaign, 2008, General Election. Thanks, --Clubjuggle T/C 23:30, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: agree. 72.0.180.2 (talk) 22:56, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Why was a separate article created? Every split discussion thus far has failed to achieve consensus for a split, and for good reason. Wizardman 02:38, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Dunno, probably length. It was already split when I got here. --Clubjuggle T/C 02:44, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed rename and split 

message: Regarding my latest edit here, anyone unfamiliar with the background about this material may want to review the discussion at Talk:Barack Obama, where a mention of the Obama-Ayers controversy has been proposed several times.  The proposal does not seem to have gained consensus there, but there does seem to be consensus there that a mention would be appropriate here.  Therefore, rather than allowing this material to go down a black hole of being neither here nor there, or the controversy being orphaned from the parties about which it was a controversy I'm adding information about it here, which I think is the most obvious place to mention it. Thanks,  Wikidemo (talk) 01:52, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Ummm... wording is good.  But the debate happened in 2008, not 2007.  Maybe the placement should be somewhere a bit different :-). LotLE×talk 04:07, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

text: Actually, I had planned to add the same thing myself.  However, a quick look didn't show a really obvious place to put it.  The 2008 events are basically organized by state of primary, which is funny, not quite straight chronology.  The Ayers thing would fit, in term of date, in "Pennsylvania", but that seems weird since there's nothing Pennsylvania specific about it.  So I gave up at my first glance... hoping to come back when I had more time, and figure out how to reorganize a bit. LotLE×talk 04:11, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, then, I just moved it to 2008. Wikidemo (talk) 04:50, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bill Ayers 

message: From the wiki article:  
"both "Barack" and "Hussein" are names of Semitic origin that mean, respectively, to bless/blessing and good/handsome) (229)."
I dont know Arabic but I know Hebrew and I can tell you that  BARACK in Hebrew means "lightning" -(like Ehud Barack). "Blessed" in Hebrew is BARUCH (like Baruch Spinoza,latinized as Benedict). There's a big difference in spelling and pronunciation between Barack and Baruch (this last CH represents a strong H). 
(Footnote 229 mentions Hussein, but not Barack.)
Maybe Barack means blessed in Arabic? Certainly not in Hebrew.
22:59, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Barack Obama's name  

message: The whole Jesse Jackson gaffe seems to have been erased from the WP record in all Obama related articles.  I have got it well-sourced in both Jesse Jackson and Jesse Jackson, Jr..  Should it be in this article?  Should it be in Barack Obama presidential campaign, 2008?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM)  23:36, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jackson controversy 

message: Just asking, why do these articles exist as 2 when they could be merged as one? Aren't they on the same topic?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.76.216.155 (talk) 09:08, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe they are separate, because if they were merged it would form an article that was too long.  Terrakyte (talk) 00:32, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Barack Obama presidential primary campaign, 2008]] and [[Barack Obama presidential campaign, 2008]] 

message: This article is so freaking long, I think giving a whole article to that would be justice.--Levineps (talk) 20:36, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: At this point I think we could trim and condense a lot of material.  Much of it is stale, and in hindsight does not matter. Things are written in the present tense, or talk about future events that may or may not have occurred.  Wikidemon (talk) 04:33, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  separate article for primary and caucus results and analysis 

message: How to WP:SYNthesize a "scandal":
# 19:15, 21 June 2007 Gloriamarie (talk | contribs) John McCain presidential campaign, 2008 (added votes he's missed in Senate for campaign)
# 02:15, 20 August 2008 Ferrylodge (talk | contribs) John McCain presidential campaign, 2008 (→Missed votes in Senate: Add info about scheduling votes.)
# 19:26, 16 December 2008 Newguy34 (talk | contribs) Obama-Biden campaign (→Middle Eastern and European tour: Added section nearly identical to one in McCain's campaign article.)
# 17:41, 14 March 2009 Newross (talk | contribs) Obama-Biden campaign (→Missed votes in Senate: remove subsection added 16 December 2008 by Newguy34 (talk) that is not about the Obama-Biden campaign)
# 06:34, 15 March 2009 ListenerX (talk | contribs) Barack Obama presidential primary campaign, 2008 (→Controversies, allegations, and scandals during the primary campaign: Adding section removed from general-election campaign article.)
# In June 2007, Gloriamarie added a contemporaneous (May 2007) McCain presidential primary campaign story about Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) missing far more votes in the U.S. Senate than Sen. Sam Brownback (R-KS), Sen. Chris Dodd (D-CT), Sen. Joe Biden (D-DE), Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL), or Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY), as part of the larger McCain presidential primary campaign story in 2007, where according to the third paragraph in the lead section of the John McCain presidential campaign, 2008 article: "McCain began the campaign as the apparent frontrunner among Republicans, with a strategy of appearing as the establishment, inevitable candidate; ... However, he soon fell behind in polls and fundraising; by July 2007 his campaign was forced to restructure its size and operations."
# In August 2008, Ferrylodge added an out-of-context cherry-picked sentence from a four-month-old (April 2008) McCain presidential general election campaign story in an attempt to rationalize why McCain missed far more Senate votes at every stage of the presidential primary and general election campaign than his Republican Senate colleague and his four Democratic Senate colleagues who ran for president.
# In December 2008, Newguy34, apparently troubled that the McCain-Palin campaign article had a subsection about McCain missing far more votes than his Republican Senate colleague and his four Democratic Senate colleagues who ran for president, while the Obama-Biden campaign had no corresponding subsection, WP:SYNthesized a corresponding "Missed votes in Senate" subsection by cherry-picking a November 2007 story about Obama missing somewhat more votes than his three Democratic Senate colleagues during an arbitrarily chosen  two-month period from September–October 2007, and added the WP:SYNthesized "Missed votes in Senate" subsection to the Chronicle section of the Obama-Biden campaign article.
# On March 14, 2008, I removed Newguy34's WP:SYNthesized "Missed votes in Senate" subsection, which was not about the Obama-Biden presidential general election campaign, from the Obama-Biden campaign article.
#  Thirteen hours later, ListenerX added Newguy34's WP:SYNthesized subsection "Missed votes in Senate" to the Controversies, allegations, and scandals during the primary campaign section of the Barack Obama presidential primary campaign, 2008
There is no evidence that Barack Obama’s missed votes in the Senate were a significant controversy, allegation, or scandal during his presidential primary campaign. Obama missed fewer votes in the Senate in 2007 than four (McCain, Brownback, Dodd, Biden) of his five Senate colleagues who were running for president; only Clinton missed fewer votes—which contemporaneous news stories attributed to then-front-runner Clinton’s then-better-financed campaign being able to afford chartered private jets to whisk her back to Washington, D.C. for votes.  Newross (talk) 00:39, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Synthesized "Missed votes in Senate" scandal 

message: Every once in a while people have removed the assertion from the text or heading that the extreme claims about Obama being a closet Muslim, non-citizen, communist, etc., were false.  This latest edit, which seems to be turning into an edit war,  characterizes them as "allegations".  That is erroneous and mischaracterizes the sources in at least two ways.  First of all, the noteworthiness of the claims is that they were false, not that they were made.  They are notable as fringe theories and viral propaganda, not as bona fide assertions about Obama.  Second, they are not legitimate allegations.  If a fringe theory holds something it is not an allegation, it is a fringe theory.  It is a POV violation to cover these as if there is any legitimate question of their being true.  As a side note, there has been a long term consensus to include them in the article, and to point out prominently that they are false per the sources.  People who want to propose a change should take it to the talk page rather than edit war, when something is disputed.  As a temporary compromise, and so as not to leave an incorrect description up there, I have taken out the word "allegations", but ideally the status quo heading is best.  Wikidemon (talk) 20:00, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: First, I would say that we should restore the consensus version until such time as consensus changes.  The fact that one editor decided to edit war over it doesn't mean we should use less clear language.  Having said that, the entire point of that section is that the allegations were false.  It is about political smears, within the context of the campaign.  Obama was not a "secret muslim" nor was he born in Kenya.  To suggest that these are simply a matter of opinion (and that calling the allegations false is somehow a non-neutral POV) is to give undue weight to a fringe theory. --Loonymonkey (talk) 20:24, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  False claims 

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thread_title:  Blacklisted Links Found on [[Barack Obama presidential primary campaign, 2008]] 

message: When did Simon and Schuster become an unreliable source?--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 03:44, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: That's hardly the question. A reputable publisher alone does not make a source reliable. Who is Deneen Borelli and what are her qualifications as an RS beyond being a conservative polemicist? Especially since the mention in her book is a second-hand repeat (i.e. tertiary source) of a claim in a book published by Regnery Publishing, a self-styled publisher of books "contrary to those of 'mainstream' publishers", the very antithesis of a reliable source. Then there's Breitbart.com; the less said the better. Now I'm not a huge fan of Media Matters either, but if we end up having to include the 2007 Selma anniversary march/rally, we'll probably need to keep it NPOV by also using something like this. 2600:1006:B14D:A3C0:B945:D20A:9451:85D (talk) 04:21, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Both sources were included per WP:BALANCE. Just because both sources have a POV does not make them unreliable, see WP:BIASED. Surely more reliable than Yahoo Answers, which does not meet WP:RS as it is WP:USERGENERATED.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 04:41, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Simon and Schuster 

message: The article states that the "Receipts" were "US$287.4 (May 31, 2008)," which is less than US$300. This amount is insignificant, and thus, probably incorrect. I suggest the person who provided this information revises the amount stated, and provides a credible reference. Alternatively, someone else could provide it instead.
Maslesha (talk) 00:41, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Campaign Funding - Sources? 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Barack Obama presidential primary campaign, 2008. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080323194703/http://blogs.usatoday.com:80/onpolitics/2008/03/details-added-t.html to http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2008/03/details-added-t.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080403162127/http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2008/03/gallup-obama--1.html to http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2008/03/gallup-obama--1.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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I have just modified 10 external links on Barack Obama presidential primary campaign, 2008. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 40 external links on Barack Obama presidential primary campaign, 2008. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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