Talk:Donald Lee Stewart (preacher)

message: I corrected language from Metropolitan90 that was not NPOV. According to TV guide Stewart appears on local stations in large metro areas to numerous to mention, I put in, "and other television channels." Is there something special about the "Word Channel?" (Although Stewart would probably like his viewers to know he appears on that channel). Metro has listed no independent reference to how the subject raises money or why this should be relevant. You could criticize almost any church or ministry for fund raising and lifestyle, (i.e. Billy & Franklin Graham, any one of many U.S. Cardinals & the Boston Archdiocese, etc). This kind of criticism does not fall under Wikipedia NPOV guidelines. The external links critical of the subject, at the bottom of the page were left in place and are the proper place for Metropolitan90 and others to place there critical POV of the subject.
JScardilli (talk) 22:03, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You are wrong. I suggest you read WP:NPOV. The only requirement for criticism is WP:RS. Many criticisms of people's finances are on wikipedia. BBiiis08 (talk) 06:20, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Metropolitan90's edits

message: The previous articles on this page are extremely religiously biased in their depiction of Don Stewart and could be liable. There seems to be an effort by some on the internet to criticize ridicule, and demean ministers of the Pentecostal culture that needs to be closely watched. I have removed offending lines and offensive title, "Greedy Preacher."  —Preceding unsigned comment added by JScardilli (talk • contribs) 21:29, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Be advised that mention of legal ramifications will get you blocked. If you have a problem, discuss on this talk the specific issue and its source. BBiiis08 (talk) 06:14, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: POV/Religiously biased

message: An editor has said the prayer cloth was a direct mail piece written by someone other than Stewart. The article he referenced doesn’t say that. More importantly, The Green Prayer cloth isn’t a direct mail piece anyway. It is a give away on his television program and website. What it is and why he does it, is written on his web page and a posted video there from his TV program. It is also referenced in a book he wrote for an independent publisher. This seems like the most NPOV. Harvest09 (talk) 20:06, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Where/who said "the prayer cloth was a direct mail piece written by someone other than Stewart"? BBiiis08 (talk) 05:09, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Don Stewart Green Prayer Cloth 

message: I propose adding:
In 1970, after AA Allen died Stewart gained possession of Allen's Miracle Valley property.Stanley M. Burgess, Eduard M. van der Maas, and Ed van der Maas. New International Dictionary of Pentecostal and Charismatic Movements (Jun 1, 2002), page 312 On the property from 1979 until 1982, nearly 300 members of a group isolated themselves with Frances Thomas professing what locals said was an "anti-white doctrine." Immigrants from Chicago and Mississippi rioted, which resulted in the death of Therial Davis, a six year old. In 1982, the group had several confrontations with utility workers, neighbors and eventually law enforcement resulting in an October shoot out leaving, two members of the church and a deputy were killed. That same year Miracle Valley's main administration building and vast warehouse were set fire by arson, which resulted in the total destruction of the facilities. The main building was valued at $2 million dollars. Stewart sent multiple donation requests to some people on his 100,000 person mailing list "even though his ministry is not associated with the college and the fire damage was insured." According to the press, one of his letters "gave the impression ... the fire had crippled Stewart's ministry" and another purported to include the buildings ashes with a request for $200 donations. His church had issues over Stewart's financing and "questioned Stewart's fundraising techniques" before.
If there are any issues, what specific sentence/source is the concern about? BBiiis08 (talk) 06:56, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe the general concern is the connection of Stewart with the actions of the group. I think your version avoids this insinuation, but includes the episode as necessary for the latter part of the paragraph to be understood (i.e., Stewart's donation requests related to the buildings). I think it is fine, but I'm sure there will be other opinions. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 15:13, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added it to the article since there appears to be consensus and no dissent after three days. BBiiis08 (talk) 02:07, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  I still strongly object, as stated above. Harvest09 (talk) 08:55, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  You only objected after I included it. As I wrote above three days ago, "what specific sentence/source is the concern about?" BBiiis08 (talk) 09:13, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Didn't see it down here, we were talking about it at another place in the discussion page. Harvest09 (talk) 09:25, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  "What specific sentence/source is the concern about?" BBiiis08 (talk) 09:32, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I assume by the silence, there are no problems? BBiiis08 (talk) 17:22, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed paragraph 

message: BBiiis, I don't believe the Don Stewart who writes with Josh McDowell is the one we are writing this article about. You might want to check that. Harvest09 (talk) 06:53, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I simply added the books from the Josh McDowell article which links the co-author to Don Stewart (preacher)--this article. BBiiis08 (talk) 22:01, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you should take them out, unless you are sure. Harvest09 (talk) 08:34, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  The McDowell material was already there I just added similiar material per McDowell's page. You know that because you added a book below it in January 2009. If you weren't sure then why didn't you remove then? I have no problem with removing them. However, I wonder why now its become an issue. BBiiis08 (talk) 09:11, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It's been removed. The Don Stewart (Don Douglas Stewart) who is an evangelical scholar from Talbot Theological Seminary, is the author of the books and has no relation/nothing to do with this Stewart. BBiiis08 (talk) 20:39, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Books by Stewart 

message: In Only believe Stewart wrote:
He might have someone demonstrate a healing by bending over to touch their toes when they didn't have a problem bending over in the first place. The audience wouldn't catch that and might believe that they had seen a miracle. Well, what was an honest mistake by the evangelist soon became a formula to resort to again and again if things weren't happening. Eventually, most of the evangelists had wheelchairs available for people who had bad backs and couldn't stand in a healing line for hours. But when the evangelist got to them and pulled them up out of the wheelchair, some in the audience thought they were walking for the first time or that they had come to the revival in that wheelchair.Don Stewart (preacher), Only believe: an eyewitness account of the great healing revivals of the 20th century (Shippensburg, PA: Revival Press, 1999)   pages 115.
...
Kathryn Kuhlman rented hundreds of wheelchairs for her big crusades ... she didn’t stop the service to explain that the person being wheeled to the front in a wheelchair was only someone with back trouble. ... It happens in my own ministry.Don Stewart (preacher), Only believe: an eyewitness account of the great healing revivals of the 20th century (Shippensburg, PA: Revival Press, 1999)   pages 130.Both Quoted here 
Since Stewart is a faith healer, should we discuss the tactics used? BBiiis08 (talk) 02:59, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  This is the line before, "Then sometimes an evangelist might misunderstand the problem. He might have someone demonstrate a healing by bending over to touch their toes..." Clearly, "He," is not referring to Stewart but to any number of evangelist. This doesn't seem to be about Stewart specifically and on this page and the previous one he is saying this as a criticism he has against other evangelists, but qualifies it by saying it can also be an honest mistake. Stewart never says it is a formula or tactic he uses and is criticizing those who do.Don Stewart (preacher), Only believe: an eyewitness account of the great healing revivals of the 20th century (Shippensburg, PA: Revival Press, 1999)   pages 114 -115. Harvest09 (talk) 10:45, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: No read the whole chapter this section was taken completely out of context and isn't a "tactic" Stewart used anyway. He is talking about sick people who can't stand for long times or walk up ramps using wheelchairs and ministers beging criticised because someone in the audience misunderstood their illness. Harvest09 (talk) 13:47, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think "some in the audience thought they were walking for the first time" and "It happens in my own ministry" speaks for itself. BBiiis08 (talk) 23:54, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  No it doesn't speak for its self, Stewart is just qualifying a criticism he is making, by saying it could also be an honest mistake that has even happened to him unintentionally.Harvest09 (talk) 10:45, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Actually to give your excuse you took the words out of context. "...she didn’t stop the service to explain that the person being wheeled to the front in a wheelchair was only someone with back trouble. ... It happens in my own ministry" speaks for itself. Anyone reading your above comments and non-explanation here can decide for themselves. BBiiis08 (talk) 17:11, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

text: The comments seem to apply to faith-healers in general, not to Stewart specifically, and does seem to be taken out of context here. I'd leave it out. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 13:12, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  OK, but "It happens in my own ministry," I believe applies to Stewart. BBiiis08 (talk) 17:18, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

text: Ok so we have decided to leave this out.Harvest09 (talk) 04:40, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  For now. I'll see what I can find out about it. BBiiis08 (talk) 23:05, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stewart on deceiving evangelical audiences 

message: Arizona Republic newspaper series focusing on the Don Stewart Association's charitable efforts.
bomfog (talk) 17:50, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the tip. The page has been blanked twice by anon. IPs in recent days. The papers biography on Stewart is very revealing and should be included in the article. BBiiis08 (talk) 09:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Incoming! 

message: The reference to "other television channels" in the first paragraph is unclear, especially considering that it is preceded by references to BET and the Word Network, which are networks, not channels. If other networks are meant, this should be stated.
The cause of death of Allen has been debated, in spite of the death certificate. Regardless of what one believes about it, the cause of death on the death certificate is cirrhosis of liver, not "an alcoholic binge in 1970." Even if one believes that yes, Allen was an alcoholic, there is no evidence that I'm aware of to support the claim that "an alcoholic binge in 1970" was THE cause of death.
The connection between Don Stewart and the violence at Miracle Valley around the late '70s-early '80s is very unclearly worded. It isn't clear whether there really was a connection or even if Stewart was on the property at the time.
The statement that Stewart "produces many DVDs and 'healing packages'" is extremely unclear. How many is "many," and does "many" refer only to DVDs, or also to "healing packages," whatever they are? And does "many" mean many different titles, or many copies of the same title? I looked at Don Stewart's website, and I don't see very many DVD titles listed at all, and I was unable to find a "healing package" in his online store. What exactly is a "healing package," and if this is so significant and if he was "producing" so many of them, then why does there seem to be no mention of it in Stewart's website?
The statement that the book Only Believe was written by Don Stewart is, in my estimation, highly inaccurate. Although his name is on the cover as though he was the author, and although Stewart refers to himself as author in "A Word from the Author" in the first few pages, and although it's copyrighted by Don Stewart, it's actually a transcript of an interview with Stewart that was conducted by Doug Wead. Wead's questions appear in bold face, followed by Stewart's answers. This is explained on the copyright page near the front of the book. 
One question then becomes whether he is the same Doug Wead who was worked with Kenneth Copeland recently, but I don't know anything about that or whether it's anything that should be pursued or that could be pursued with accuracy and objectivity. Apparently this article had said earlier that the book was written by Don Stewart "with" Doug Wead, or something to that effect, until someone changed it to say that Don Stewart wrote it. I believe that the fact that all Don Stewart did was to answer questions is significant.
The statement about his family earning "hundreds of thousands of dollars from his church" isn't the sort of statement that belongs in an encyclopedia. Not only is it openly accusatory, but it's so vague as to be meaningless. Does the author mean that they collectively earn that much? If so, so what?
Six references are made to Don Stewart's church. One seems to suggest that his ministry organization is "his church." Other than that, there's no explanation as to what is meant by "his church." Does the author mean a ministry organization? Generally, when people read the word "church" they think in terms of services/meetings and an in-person congregation. Is that the scenario here, or is "church" simply a poor word choice for "ministry organization"?
In the second paragraph, why is there a slash mark in front of the quote and no ending quotation mark at the end of the quote? I won't fix it, because I'm not sure where the quote ends.
A comma was badly needed in the 3rd paragraph between "Leroy Jenkins" and the "Stewart" that immediately follows. I inserted one, and I also changed the badly misspelled "protogee" to "protege." I corrected the spelling of Kathryn Kuhlman's last name from Khulman to Kuhlman, but I did not fix the poorly worded phrase "that includes Oral Roberts, Kathryn Kuhlman, A.A. Allen, and Benny Hinn" in reference to the book Only Believe. "Includes" in what sense? That's so vague as to be meaningless.  Books don't include people. Books may include discussions of people or sections about certain people, but they don't "include" people.
I would suggest removing the claim that Stewart tried to remove alcohol bottles from Allen's room before the police claimed, since this is such a controversial area and since only source is cited, and one that isn't an official record.
My personal view is that there's little specificity or accuracy in referring to Stewart as a "televangelist," a term that's employed in the first paragraph. "Evangelist" is supposed to refer to a specific type of ministry. It seems as though this has become a catch-all term applied to any nondenominational minister of any sort, as long as he or she is on TV. Yes, the term "evangelist" has been applied to Stewart, but is that primarily what he does? Even if can be shown to be accurate in a literal sense, it's a trigger word, in other words an emotionally charged word with negative connotations.
Mtnbuilder (talk) 15:34, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some editing issues/suggestions 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified