Talk:Kyūshojutsu

message: I have removed the following passages to this page:
"It is used in many fighting sports from karate to jujutsu to boxing."  This requires a cite:  The author needs to verify the exceptionally unlikely notion that "kyusho jitsu" is a component of karate, jujutsu, or boxing.
:This is actually correct; please see my note below.  Dillman's stuff is sheer fantasy, but applying force to nerves and other sensitive spots is part of many martial arts curricula.  I'll see if I can find an appropriate article summarizing their use in various arts, and update this page.  --GenkiNeko 16:07, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Essentially, any strike or grapple that isn't a completely indiscriminate clubbing or twisting motion applied to a random or handy part of the body is using 'kyusho jutsu'- the art of attacking vulnerable points- in its broadest sense. The jaw is a vulnerable point. So are the genitals. So, for the purposes of grappling, is the elbow joint. Do you see what is intended? -Toptomcat (talk) 03:34, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Earlier discussions 

message: I have included George Dillman reference to the Kyusho Jitsu page and made a reference from this page to him.  I agree with one of the previous editors that George Dillman should not be redirected to this page, that makes no sense.  He is a practitioner of Kyusho Jitsu, one of the first researchers on kata hidden moves, and how these moves were hidden and bringing them back into Martial Arts.  He deserves mention.
I've inlcuded Wally Jay as reference for similar reasons as George Dillman. -(unsigned)
Wally Jay should not be included in this article.  Although he may have been a "friend" of Dillman's (and the term "friend" can have quite a few distinctly different meanings), someone must produce evidence that Jay "integrated" kyusho jitsu into his training program (see following section). Roundeyesamurai 14:42, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference Edits 

message: "72.192.198.91" edited the article to include this paragraph:
:"The words Kyusho jitsu (from Japanese: 急所術 kyūsho jutsu) have different meanings. For some, it is a martial art which emphasizes the attack of pressure points on the body. Many people who believe this, also believe that kyusho jitsu has been created by George Dillman in the 1960s although he denies this - claiming a history for the style which predates the 20th century. For others, kyusho jitsu is one of the layers that complete a well rounded martial art, among other layers such as striking, grappling, throwing, joint locking, etc. Traditional martial artists believe that in Asian martial arts, a student is not granted access to kyusho jitsu knowledge unless proving worthy of getting it. However, Western martial arts industry offers some training for a price."
This paragraph is purely bunk, for the following reasons:
1) " For others, kyusho jitsu is one of the layers that complete a well rounded martial art..."
Who are these others?  Aside from those who engage in the practice of "kyusho jitsu", that is (and they are not an impartial or neutral party).
2) "Traditional martial artists believe that in Asian martial arts, a student is not granted access to kyusho jitsu knowledge unless proving worthy of getting it."  
This sentence is so absurd as to be laughable.  This, and the preceeding sentences, make the statement that "kyusho jitsu" is a requisite part of a martial arts curriculum, and is a "trade secret" (for lack of a better term) amongst all "credible" martial arts.  No martial art other than "kyusho jitsu" utilizes "kyusho jitsu" methodology, and it is incredibly dishonest to purport otherwise.  Only those who listen to Dillman believe this lie- and make no mistake: though the word "lie" is a strong word to use, it is indeed a "lie" by any definition of the term.
3) "However, Western martial arts industry offers some training for a price."  
This is nothing short of a demonization of any martial art which "competes" with "kyusho jitsu".  It is an indoctrination story told to "kyusho jitsu" practicioners.
Roundeyesamurai 08:17, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Another Removal

message: Upon viewing the page, I noticed that there were, as of today, eleven links in the "external links" section, and all of them were to websites for schools.  I doubt any Wikipedian wants to see the page become a directory of "kyusho jitsu" dojos, or have these schools use Wikipedia for free advertising.  I trimmed the links down by deleting all but the first three (just because it seemed like a reasonable number)- but if anyone has a better way to impartially decide which dojo websites should appear and which shouldn't, please jump in and apply it.  Roundeyesamurai 09:03, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with shortening the list. The pages linked should be informational (about the art). JJL 17:34, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The DKI page contains further info. on George Dillman, and is essentially his personal page. He's a focusof the article. The www.kyusho.com page is just an ad. JJL 16:34, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Commercial Interest

message: Should the Pressure point page be merged with this one? JJL 01:53, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I see many similar topics covered. However, there's no harm in leaving them separate. There are certainly other PP traditions. JJL 01:57, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Pressure point

message: It seems to me that listing this fictional character is out-of-place here. This particular usage of PPs is so closely tied to George Dillman and the Ryukuan tradition that the link would be more appropriate at Pressure points or the Chinese Dim Mak (not that it necessarily fits there). JJL 01:57, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Ty Lee]]

message: A few thoughts regarding the discussion below and this page in general:
The page as it stands seems to be back and forth with respect to whether Kyusho Jistu is a separate martial art or not.  It is indeed true that many martial arts schools of various styles incorporate the principles of pressure point fighting.  A few minutes of researching web pages or martial arts schools proves this pretty quickly.   Additionally, if you see the homepage for Kyusho International, it points out that the KI curriculum can be incorporated into any martial art or used on its own.  I believe that part of the controversy here lies in the difference between pressure point fighting and the controlling of Chi.  Pressure point fighting -- or using pressure points as targets in the martial arts -- is used by many mainstream pratititioners and reputable schools.  The controlling of Chi is a wholly different concept, and one that has generated much heated debate.  Because Mr. Dillman's beliefs focus on the controversial part of this, his name has become synonomous with the belief of controlling Chi.  Thus, I believe the extant page should be re-edited to be more neutral.  --Scanegi 13:13, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Thoughts 

message: Reading most of the postings here it seems to me that this is just an anti-dillman page and has nothing to do with Kyusho Jitsu. I could find this stuff on youtube! For the record, Kyusho is a legitimate art, it is not based on no-touch knockouts and the Jay's have indeed incorporated it into Small Circle. Sorry for the short rant.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.221.70.131 (talk) 13:29, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is this just an anti-Dillman page?