Talk:USC Trojan Marching Band

message: The section on notable activities is a bit dense, and more of a list of everything rather than the important events in Band history.  Someone who is more familiar with scband history might like to simplify it?  I might be able to do a bit, but don't want to lose something that's actually important.  --Rocksanddirt 05:58, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable History 

message: Is this really a necessary or useful addition to the article? It seems a bit superfluous to me...--Sarichkaa 04:58, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Daily Routine? 

message: This reads like an ad.  I was about to go in and revert some vandalism, but it looks like the the "real" content is about as un-encyclopedic as the vandalism!  I'll go revert the edits anyway, but this article needs an overhaul.  Rob* 09:03, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV? 

message: 6:34 AM?  Clearly, there's a story there...  Anyone know what it is?--Baylink (talk) 04:47, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Vandalism, it starts at 6:30  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Superbowlbound (talk • contribs) 16:21, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Warmup starts at 

message: The "History" section is a blatant cut-and-paste from the band's official history page. Unless they gave permission or posted it themselves, it needs to either be deleted or rewritten in a noninfringing form. — Dale Arnett (talk) 05:34, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: With the way its written there (with the links, etc), it almost looks like they copied it from here.  The article was more or less in this state as of late 2005, that page is (c) 2006.  Still, a rewrite couldn't hurt. --Bobak (talk) 15:53, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: well if its plagiarized it needs to go. So goodbye history section, someone needs to rewrite it Superbowlbound (talk) 16:12, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Well, I'm glad we finally got some explanation.  Can we add to why we have such specific times on the gameday routine?  It's a bit confusing without any background and does look like a mistake.  Wikipedia would be a great place to explain it (esp. if there's a source). --Bobak (talk) 22:24, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I doubt that you'll find a reputable source; the explanation is patently off-color. MisfitToys (talk) 22:47, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If there's no reliable source, then the material cannot be included in wikipedia as it is original research. -- Upholder (talk) 22:58, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: But one could argue, I suppose, that the item is verifiable through direct observation of the primary source (which is possible several times each autumn). MisfitToys (talk) 00:48, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: How about an email from someone currently in the band? --Bobak (talk) 01:04, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  BIG copyvio problem 

message: Wikipedia:Plagiarism. Please see that for Wikipedias policy. This article is almost all plagiarized as well as a lack of NPOV. It needs to be heavily redone. Superbowlbound (talk) 16:18, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I'm glad we finally got some explanation.  Can we add to why we have such specific times on the gameday routine?  It's a bit confusing without any background and does look like a mistake.  Wikipedia would be a great place to explain it (esp. if there's a source). --Bobak (talk) 22:24, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I doubt that you'll find a reputable source; the explanation is patently off-color. MisfitToys (talk) 22:47, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If there's no reliable source, then the material cannot be included in wikipedia as it is original research. -- Upholder (talk) 22:58, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: But one could argue, I suppose, that the item is verifiable through direct observation of the primary source (which is possible several times each autumn). MisfitToys (talk) 00:48, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: How about an email from someone currently in the band? --Bobak (talk) 01:04, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plagiarism 

message: Um, the band is referred to as "the TMB" in the history section in 1880, long before USC was called the Trojans.  It's just generally unprofessional and bad.--207.151.237.47 (talk) 18:10, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I would disagree, since its appropriate to say an entity was founded at a certain date using its current name --of course, it would be best if we knew the original name so that it could be written as "The TMB was founded in 1880 as the _____."  But to call the current version "generally unprofessional and bad" isn't particularly useful --can you cite where such sweeping generalizations would find support?  --Bobak (talk) 14:14, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The article is titled Spirit of Troy, but the abbreviation for Trojan Marching Band, TMB, is used repeatedly in the current revision to represent the subject all throughout. The subject might be better represented by use of "The group", "The band", or "they". Trojan Marching Band (TMB) still belongs in the head paragraph. Group29 (talk) 23:42, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: History wording

message: The problem with the year founded is the band from 1880 was not a marching band and is not actually the band that became the TMB. It was a university band in the sense of symphonic. Until the true date can be found and has a cited source other than I heard it was 1880. This will be removed and replaced with ???. As proof the Oregon State Marching band is recognized as the oldest band in the pac-10 and has the official title of Oldest Band in the Pac-10. Since this is true the TMB cant be older than the OSUMB. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.160.107.185 (talk) 03:44, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Year founded  

message: Since it came up, I'm gonna preempt the upcoming edit war here. The Sprit of Troy has called itself this for a long time; others have as well. It's clearly, clearly not vandalism in that it's not like some random person came in and changed the article on Obama to say "Super Awesomest President Obama."  You can argue that the title is inaccurate, wrong, or misleading, but nevertheless, it's part of the Band's public culture and therefore fit for the article.
First of all, if you do a Google Search for the exact Phrase "Greatest Marching Band in the History of the Universe" on google, you're gonna get a ton of hits, and only about the USC Band:
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=%22greatest+marching+band+in+the+history+of+the+universe%22
And here's the phrase being used officially by the band itself:
- The Spirit of Troy's Press Pack (page 9): http://www.usc.edu/dept/band/presspack.pdf
- Spirit of Troy Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/USC-Trojan-Marching-Band-Recruitment/172676632754510
- Yelp: http://www.yelp.com/biz/usc-trojan-marching-band-los-angeles
Other USC related sources:
- Article from the Daily Trojan: http://dailytrojan.com/2009/10/22/in-40th-year-bartner-still-hits-right-notes/
- Fan post on a USC forum: http://www.wearesc.com/forums/forum/main-category/main-forum/74736-an-ode-to-the-greatest-marching-band-in-the-history-of-the-universe
- Another one: http://usc.247sports.com/Board/29/Contents/The-Greatest-Marching-Band-in-the-History-of-the-Universe-9410685
And third party organizations:
- http://www.collegexpress.com/lists/list/best-college-marching-bands/1500/
- http://www.zencollegelife.com/the-10-best-college-marching-bands-of-all-time/
- http://onnidan1.com/forum/index.php?topic=51020.0;wap2
Embowaf (talk) 03:51, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Greatest Marching Band In the History of the Universe 

message: The Spirit of Troy University of Southern California Trojan Marching Band was selected to perform in the Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade, representing the state of California. This will mark the first Parade appearance by the band.
The Spirit of Troy University of Southern California Trojan Marching Band will join the parade to the call of “Let’s Have a Parade,” the iconic phrase that has signaled the start of every Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade since 1924.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1017:B413:CE71:49DB:867C:F57B:9F71 (talk) 16:14, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade  

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Spirit of Troy. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070828132113/https://media.www.dailytrojan.com/media/storage/paper679/news/2004/08/18/OnCampusLife/Not-Your.Average.Marching.Band-702376.shtml to http://media.www.dailytrojan.com/media/storage/paper679/news/2004/08/18/OnCampusLife/Not-Your.Average.Marching.Band-702376.shtml
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090526032045/https://www.usc.edu/dept/band/about/spiritnotes.html to http://www.usc.edu/dept/band/about/spiritnotes.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071218145355/http://www.usc.edu/dept/band/about/index.php?story=history.htm to http://www.usc.edu/dept/band/about/index.php?story=history.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120226035348/http://www.usc.edu/dept/band/about/presspack.html to http://www.usc.edu/dept/band/about/presspack.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 08:15, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Today (11/23/2019) I saw, while watching a recording of TV news on KCAL from the preceding day, a line regarding Dr. Bartner's upcoming retirement that flashed on the bottom of the screen.  Later while using Google, in addition to finding articles regarding his retirement, I found other articles regarding the USC band, one regarding their first female drum major, and a second regarding the controversy at the football game.  Since there were several postings regarding this incident in various websites, including a website from a department of USC, that information regarding this incident should be posted.  I hoped I achieved a proper, neutral point of view.  There were several postings that included derogatory Twitter statements from Cal students and alumni.
:The proximity of the two pieces of information--the controversy, and Dr. Bartner's retirement--could imply that the events are related. This is not the case; Dr. Bartner's retirement had been set for 2020 for a long while. Some evidence, with publish dates:
:* 2019-04-26: Discussing Dr. Bartner's last spring concert 
:* 2019-05-06: Interview with Dr. Bartner about "his 50th and final season football season [sic] as band director"
:* 2019-05-12: "Art Bartner...enters his 50th and final season as USC Director of Bands this next year." 
:* 2019-10-19: "Dr. Arthur C. Bartner is retiring after 50 years directing the USC Trojan Marching Band."
:Trojansdestroy (talk) 23:18, 18 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Controversy regarding conduct at USC Cal football game 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: (non-admin closure) MOVED to USC Trojan Marching Band without objection.  User:力 (power~enwiki, π, ν) 17:48, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Spirit of Troy →  – The official name of the band is the USC Trojan Marching Band. The "Spirit of Troy" is the band's nickname.
* The entry for the band in the "About USC" section of the university's website — Although it says "Known as the Spirit of Troy," it is followed by "...the Trojan Marching Band", and the header at the top clearly says "Trojan Marching Band". In context, the "known as" serves the function of a shortened "also known as", not the function of providing the name of the band, which would not be consistent with everything else that the entry indicates.
* Entry on the USC Athletics website — This is at first confusing, because at the top it says "Spirit of Troy — Trojan Marching Band". However, the text below clarifies this: "Shortly after the University of Southern California was founded in 1880, a group of musicians first came together to form what would become the Trojan Marching Band (TMB)". It then says, "It has truly earned its nickname “The Spirit of Troy” for its commitment to USC and its tireless support of Trojan athletics." The unusually written header is actually exactly as an announcer, such as the public address announcer at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum, would introduce the band. The website is simply emulating the grandiose introduction.
* The band's official website — Again, one could be misled by the website proudly displaying "Spirit of Troy" in large letters, but this is not inconsistent with the term being the band's nickname. It is not a header. The use of the term in the band's logo is no more convincing than saying that the name of the University of California system is actually "Let there be light". Below, it says "Jake Vogel has been named the next director of the USC Trojan Marching Band." The 'About Us' section of the website is an exact copy of the USC Athletics website and reiterates that "Spirit of Troy" is a nickname.
* The alumni organization is named the Trojan Marching Band Alumni Association, not the "Spirit of Troy Alumni Association".
Lastly, if none of the above persuades, bear in mind that official mail correspondence to the band goes to:
And any email correspondence goes to .
In conclusion, I fully concede that the band's use of both terms can be confusing and seemingly inconsistent at times, but the band has made it abundantly clear that the name is the USC Trojan Marching Band, or simply Trojan Marching Band for short, and the acronym is TMB for a reason. The settings in which the term "Spirit of Troy" are used (social media handles, etc.) are the same settings in which a nickname would sensibly be used, and it is never used in official correspondence. 98.148.62.183 (talk) 18:26, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 16 September 2021