Talk:Sauna

message: I will remove Czech republic from Eastern Europe. Czech republic IS NOT Eastern Europe. We Czechs have never, never anything like Russian banya!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:1028:96CA:4526:59DE:DEB1:1B3A:B601 (talk) 20:22, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: It seems as though the part about Health Benefits is copied from this webpage.  Saunafin is a company that sells "Saunas, Sauna Kits, Pre-Fab Saunas, Sauna Heaters, Infrared Saunas and Steambath Generators" - hardly an objective source. Shouldn't this part be removed unless we find some trustworthy scientific source? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.203.21.164 (talk • contribs) 06:46, June 1, 2006 
:With chronically ill people the amount of exercise that they can initially tolerate in recuperation may be insufficient to burn off excess stress hormones, so another way is needed to achieve this. The temperature changes of therapeutic sauna can help and this has other benefits as well. When first used gradual increases in heating and cooling are recommended. Therapeutic sauna reduces stress hormones and the cardiac workload is considered about half that of a walk, so initial exposure time is important also. The hypothalamus in our brain controls the balance homeostasis of the autonomic nervous system between the ACTION sympathetic and the RELAXATION parasympathetic nervous tone. The well known ‘fight or flight’ stress response produces hormones intended to be burnt off by action, but in a modern lifestyle such hormones may remain in the system
:Hormones are not a form of fuel that is "burned off." There may be actual health benefits of saunas, but the above explanation is vague and smells of pseudoscience. BAW (talk) 13:06, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: “Pseudoscience is reserved to describe theories which are either untestable in practice or in principle, or which are maintained even when tests appear to have refuted them.” If you read the text and references you will find that tests on reduction of stress hormones have been successfully carried out with sauna use. Therefore it can hardly be pseudoscience. The use of the term in a prejorative manner would not comply with WP:NPOV unless you can cite WP:RS evidences to the contrary!  ‘Burn up’ is a colloquial term for ‘metabollically utilise’ and probably better understood by encyclopaedia readers, but ‘knock yourself out’ if you want and suggest an expanded less vague description, readily understood by readers. By the way, the normal practice in Wiki is to place new comments last on the talk page not in earlier text, unless recent and ongoing! Jagra (talk) 06:43, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

text: "Sauna has also been found to increase your body's ability to improve its immune system" is referenced to Aliveberry.com, "the online health and wellness magazine". If that counts as a "reliable source" then I hereby give up on Wikipedia. 81.101.197.228 (talk) 22:18, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Health Benefits 

message: I know of no chronic conditions that are in any way 'limited' by an anaerobic threshold. This statement isn't clear whether it's refering to either chronic conditions or anaerobics. And it's unsourced, so no clarification there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.127.213.188 (talk) 22:44, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  "enhanced anaerobic threshold in chronic conditions" 

message: I'm not a native speaker but as far as I remember this procedure is called infusion. If I´m right this should be incorporated into the article. 84.173.202.53 17:58, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pouring water on hot stones 

message: Someone has since, irresponsibly in my view, removed the Therapeutic sauna proceedure from the Article? In veiw of a number of querries now like the one above concerning safe use of sauna's the proceedure can be accessed for now here Safe-use. I think something similar (if not so prescriptive) needs to be included back in the Article. Can I get comments and hopefully a consensus for this.  Jagra (talk) 05:21, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Dangers, the text just added is not supported by a reliable source citation, whilst in the right spirit, wikipedia does not accept opinion and all statements must be supported by citations WP:RS so please add such citations or text will be removed. The same applies to text just added to Benefits, these will also be removed unless you add additional citations for the statements or provide them here for verification if relying upon an existing citation already referenced in that section. Jagra (talk) 23:52, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Any comments on whether the safe use revised section in the Article now constitutes 'Howto' and even if it does is there not some obligation to describe risks? Jagra (talk) 07:32, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: We have no obligation to describe the risks. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia: we have no moral responsibility beyond that. Moreschi (talk) 17:36, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Safe use

message: I'd like to propose some significant changes to the layout.  Right now the flow seems jumbled going back and forth between historic and modern saunas.  I think it should start with an explanation of what a sauna is, then go back to the historic roots.  For that it could go all the way back to the origins of perspiration bathing that originated in ancient Greece.  My understanding is that the sauna went out of use in Europe during the middle ages, but was continued in Finland.  Then possibly its introduction to the Americas (Delaware in the 1630s). After that it would seem logical to to jump to the different types (along with the current "use" section), then possibly benefits, and end the article with cultural customs. How does that sound?  Any other ideas?  Cacophony (talk) 06:31, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I might add that the article talks mainly about finnish saunas, when it is supposed to be about saunas in general. ABC101090 (talk) 19:44, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Layout 

message: While reading this article from top to bottom, I noticed a lot of repetition. Things like vihta, giving birth in the sauna, smoke sauna etc seem to be introduced as new information several times. The redundant mentions should be removed, but I don't feel competent to make such broad edits myself :-) --82.130.38.44 (talk) 02:10, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Repetition 

message: This article also seems to be quite long for a Wikipedia article. Perhaps the longest section, "Modern sauna culture around the world", should be split into a separate article? --82.130.38.44 (talk) 02:10, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article length 

message: From 
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2896/does-a-sauna-or-steam-room-do-you-any-good ...
"Numerous Web sites, among them Wikipedia, claim research by the University of Munich's Institute of Medical Balneology and Climatology shows that saunas and steam rooms confer benefits ranging from improved sleep to softer skin. But good luck finding a citation to back this up. Despite determined effort, including correspondence with actual Germans, my assistant Una could confirm only that the Institute of MB&C exists but is now called the Institute for Health and Rehabilitation Sciences. Beyond that, zilch."
Not in the article, of course, probably removed before I read it.
My point is, can somebody please hit Cecil Adams in he head with a clue-by-four and tell him that it is far easier to simply correct Wikipedia than it is to complain about Wikipedia and have one of his readers correct it within moments of his publishing the complaint?  Just a thought... 4.231.169.56 (talk) 02:54, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another comment from The Straight Dope =

message: "... over 80 °C". No way, Jose. My guess is that a typical Finnish sauna is more like 70, in particular those small ones with an electric oven (or whatever kiuas is in English). Thus, if you warm up a small electric sauna up to 80°C and don't like it, well, in my humble opinion that's normal. Even if the temperature is lower but you let the structures get hot by warming for hours the experience may be uncomfortable. In such cases I let the temperature get even below 70, somewhere between 60 and 65. But then you have to throw lots of water on kiuas. Public saunas, tend to have lower temperatures than 80, too. In traditional and thus more humid and usually larger saunas the temperature can be higher. There are people who get their kicks out of very high temperatures -- and apparently the dialectics between pain and pleasure (after escaping the pain preferably in a lake or sea). So, there is no right way to saunoa but there is a way that most people like.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.27.67.160 (talk) 17:11, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: "Studies on the properties and pleasant effects of the Finnish sauna reveal certain conditions necessary for its proper use. . . . In most cases the recommended temperature at the level of the bather's head is from 70 to 100 degrees Centigrade and humidity should be from 40 to 70 grammes of water per kilogram of dry air. . . . [T]here is no reason to lower the temperature below 70–75°C, in which case undue humidity would result from producing a feeling of warmth. This in turn is physiologically unsuitable and will easily lead to problems of hygiene." (Finnish Sauna: Design, Construction and Maintenance, Rakennustietosäätiö Oy (5th ed. 2003), pgs. 35–36.) An accompanying chart shows 70–88°C to be "mild" (depending upon humidity), 78–98°C to be "moderate," and 88–105°C to be "strong" and observes that the "mild" range is "best suited to children and the elderly." The reference to "... over 80°C," therefore seems accurate as a general introductory statement regarding the average sauna experience. Langrel (talk) 18:07, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: If you don't believe they, believe me. I'm Finn, and go to sauna with my family every saturday, and if temperature is under than 80C, it's cold--Ateria (talk) 10:29, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

text: The sauna I go to normally runs at 110°C and about 10-12% humidity. This is what the internal thermometer and humidity sensor say. The outer control panel is usually set to 120°C (oven temperature, I guess), but obviously some of that is lost due to people opening/closing the door. So yeah, I was really surprised to see figures below 80°C. I've never been to a sauna below 80°C, no matter the humidity, and usually they are 100+. I live in Central-Eastern Europe. 213.178.101.161 (talk) 14:29, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

text: Because air has low thermal conductivity. Also the interior materials have been chosen with low heat conductivity in mind, for example the seats and walls are made of wood. Sweat evaporates before it gets in boiling temperature and that actually cools you down. That's the purpose of perspiration. Tragos (talk) 02:02, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

text: Temperatures below 100°C are common. Note that the thermometer is usally mounted in the upper region of the sauna, where the termperature is significantly higher. Saune users can choose their preferred temperature level by taking a higher or lower seat. Also note that there is little air movement inside the sauna at most times. Close to the skin, the air temperatue is much lower. However, if this layer of colder air gets blown away (for example, when the Saunameister twirls his or her towel), the body receives more heat (and reacts with more sweat - just sitting around in 80°C still air apparently leaves quiate a large safetly margin for the body's teamperature regulation). --Klaws (talk) 10:08, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Typical temperature =

message: English tends to follow the plural rules of loan words' languages of origin. For example, the French word château becomes châteaux, haiku stays haiku following the Japanese plural, and the Latin quotum has quota as its plural form. For this reason, shouldn't the plural of sauna be saunat instead of saunas?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.181.211.11 (talk) 12:17, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: You'd have a better chance of changing the singular to saunum — and about as much rationale. As a general rule, English tends to naturalize loan words and pluralize them with a simple -s (or -es). And sauna has become so thoroughly naturalized in English that its Finnish pronunciation is virtually unknown, let alone its plural. All to the better, of course, as saunat is that much more useful as an affectation. Langrel (talk) 19:49, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

text: There's the problem that it doesn't work grammatically: English always uses a simple plural, but Finnish doesn't use a simple plural in all of the same contexts. For instance 1 sauna is "1 sauna" in English, but 5 saunaa, saunat pestään, saunoja pestään are in partitive singular, nominative plural, partitive plural, respectively; in English, all three would be simple plurals ("saunas"). (The reason for this is the partitive or part-whole contrast and the telicity contrast.) --vuo (talk) 23:38, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plural 

message: Claim that saunas contribute significantly to global warming seems weakly argumented / greatly exaggerated. First, it claims that there are 2 to 3.2 million saunas in Finland, yet there are about 5.5 million inhabitants in Finland and not every house has sauna and not every Finn is living alone in his house. Actually, apartment houses typically don't have sauna in every flat, or they have common saunas for something like sauna per twenty to thirty flats. Environmental effects section also contains claims about "energy consumption" yet it uses units of power ("gigawatts"). Mixing energy and power units basically proves, that writer doesn't understand anything about subject he/she is writing about.
If we assume producing 1 kWh of electricity produces about 0.30kg CO2 (from coal, non combined process; in Finland, most coal plants are combined plants, so energy efficiency is better). Using article values for energy consumption, additional CO2 release would 406,8kg per year and household (and remember, there are significantly less saunas than households!). However, in Finland, percentage of renewable energy is 37% in 2018, nuclear 17%, fossil fuels 35% so much lower value could be used for CO2 emissions. Even if you make assumption there are million households with sauna (there aren't), it would mean only 406 800 000 kg CO2 annually, that is, 406 800t or 0.4068 Mt. For comparison, emissions from traffic in year 2017 in Finland were 11,5 Mt (CO2-equivalent, according to Finnish Statistical Administration). Of course CO2 equivalent contains certain other emissions, but it's close enough. 11,5 Mt = 11 500 000 t. All the CO2 and green house gas emissions from Finland were 56,5 Mt CO2 equivalent in 2018. Emissions from saunas would be 3,5% from traffic emissions and 0,7% from total emissions. That's hardly significant amount even at national level, even less globally!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:470:6D:10E:9532:9251:5954:8221 (talk) 20:02, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Environmental effects

message: Moved from article:
===Benefits===
THESE REFERENCES NEED TO BE CONVERTED TO INLINE CITATIONS
===Section 2===
THESE REFERENCES NEED TO BE CONVERTED TO INLINE CITATIONS
===Section 3===
===One more===
===Refs===
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Rich Farmbrough (talk • contribs) 15:42, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Unused cites

message: — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rich Farmbrough (talk • contribs) 15:42, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Refs

message: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/saunatonttu
Citation needed for the sauna spirits. I can anecdotally confirm it, since my dad always said that there is a saunatonttu behind the kiuas (I suppose to watch you to behave in sauna), and wiktionary has an entry for it too. The asexuality of sauna is true, probably evolved from the need for cleanliness in the first place.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.76.160.244 (talk) 13:25, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mythology of Sauna 

message: Is there some reason this can't be merged with Finnish sauna?
Kortoso (talk) 20:43, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge proposal 

message: Some of the claims in this section need much better sourcing, and overall the section is on the wrong side of WP:MEDRS insofar as it relies on individual studies, not reviews. I've commented out the claims that I see as most in need of hefty sourcing, including something another editor had previously marked as contradictory.
*References commented out because they are used only in sentences I have commented out: "pmid15090706", "pmid14610268".
*Removed entirely: 
Yngvadottir (talk) 20:35, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps framed as "Alleged health benefits"? Even Snake Oil can be part of the story, with the proper disclaimers. Kortoso (talk) 21:00, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Health benefits again 

message: I don't believe that 99% of Finns take at least one sauna a week. Many people do, and so do I, but 99%? Seems completely implausible to me. Some Finns have a medical condition that prevents or discourages them, and some just don't like saunas. They probably add up to more than 1%?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.250.3.250 (talk) 23:14, 26 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  99% of Finns 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion 

message: Right now the introduction is way too Finnish-centric as it makes it look like the traditional sauna culture is endemic to Finland, hile it is equally common for Estonia and other Finnic peoples and many other neighbouring nations like Latvians and Russians have similar concepts. H2ppyme (talk) 20:13, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Introduction is too Finnish-centric 

message: This sentence can be moved to the health effects section: "Therapeutic sauna has been shown to aid adaptation, reduce stress hormones, lower blood pressure and improve cardiovascular conditions." It is currently in the Use section, which seems out of place. I'll tweak and move it if no one objects. Wretchskull (talk) 10:17, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Misplaced(?) sentence in a section 

message: Page should note that Estonia and other finnic people have saunas. The sauna was created by the common ancestors of finnic people. Page needs to mention more about Estonia and the other finnic people 82.131.34.168 (talk) 14:08, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. This notion that Western saunas originated in Finland is not correct. Sauna tradition has long history before Finland came into existence. Similar dwellings (oldest known saunas were made from pits dug in a slope in the ground and primarily used as dwellings in winter) were used by natives on landmass now called Estonia, in Pulli settlement ~9000 BC. On the landmass now called Finnland, earliest settlement was suomusjärvi, dated ~7000 BC i.e. around 2000 years later. So if anything - based on this - the western saunas originated in Estonia. 217.199.122.3 (talk) 21:11, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page focuses too much on Finland 

message: Though a sauna bather from my teenage years I am not specially knowlegeable about sauna, but I think that the reference made in the second paragraph of the section Modern Saunas needs looking at (a) in the light of the Turkish bath (disambiguation) page and (b) that for the past couple of years information about these hot-air baths have been entered either on the 'Hammam' page, or on the 'Victorian Turkish bath' page. 
So the two sentences "Steam baths, such as the Turkish bath, where the humidity approaches 100%, will be set to a much lower temperature of around 50 °C (122 °F) to compensate. The "wet heat" would cause scalding if the temperature were set much higher." would seem to refer to the (Islamic) hammam.
The Victorian Turkish bath page is about to undergo some revision (see its Talk page) but even the present page makes clear that the while the hammam is often humid and steamy, the air in the Victorian Turkish bath is hot dry air.
Would anyone object if I changed this from 'Turkish bath' to 'hammam'? Ishpoloni (talk) 22:42, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference to, and comparison with, the "Turkish bath" 

message: I hear alot of people mispronounce Sauna as "Sonna". I wonder if it would be worth noting that Sau-na is the correct way of saying it. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 04:36, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  How Sauna is pronounced  

message: Can the author of this claim please elaborate or reference? I am a Czech and I have never heard of any long tradition of saunas (or more accurately something similar as sauna proper is just Finnic) and only what I am aware of is that an average sauna and sauna user in Czechia is absolutely lame and way too often does not even steam (how even dry sauna is a sauna is a riddle for me anyways) and its history mainly dates back to about the, in my opinion, more or less correctly mentioned time around 2000. I understand that it all falls to who just accidentally feels like to contribute to Wikipedia about a topic he/she just knows or wants to write about and that is in a way really fine and a cornerstone of the very platform, on the other hand this special paragraph about sauna culture in Czechia and Slovakia fails to have any other reason to exist in this article really. If the author doesn´t like the inclusion of these countries into Eastern Europe, he/she may be better of with correcting the term into something more accurate like eastern half of Europe, east of Iron curtain etc. I don´t know the perfect term but I, as a Czech, always use to include us in to eastern Europe as a simplified matter of dividing Europe into west/east as opposed to west/north/south/central/east. The problem is that apart of Cold War division we also have a Slavic culture/herritage in common but calling the whole eastern half of Europe Slavic is also very incorrect even if the rest is so strongly Slavic influenced that it is factually a lot less incorrect than theoretically and rightfully. Or even better, the notes of V4 countries can be excluded altogether as there is nothing noteworthy in my opinion. 31.30.167.10 (talk) 08:38, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Long tradition in Czechia and Slovakia