Wikipedia talk:Requests for arbitration/India-Pakistan/Workshop

message: OK - there is an obvious problem. This "workshop" is like a steel cage match between the involved parties and other users. I've made most of my suggestions and arguments. Unless the arbitrators and clerks (all "missing in action") can restore some sense of direction, all that we're doing is to intensify the dispute. Rama's arrow 17:55, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And remember, all of you: it doesn't help your defence to a charge of assault to get into a fist-fight in front of the jury.  If I were you, I personally would not want to establish a character of being argumentative in the eyes of ArbCom. David Mestel(Talk) 07:33, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Assuming that when you say illegal, you mean allowed, the answer is yes.  However, understand that the ArbCom doesn't usually take nosecounting into account when reaching its decisions, and it will look seriously bad for you if you're seen to recruit people to carry on this fruitless argument on the Workshop page. David Mestel(Talk) 15:34, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

text: That's perfectly 'legal'.  — Nobleeagle  [TALK] [C] 09:27, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Status

message: I have been watching this RfA for some time, and I must admit that right now /Workshop is a complete mess. I propose that people stop posting material in BOLD as it really really hurts my (and probably others') eyes. We definitely need someone to copy-edit it.
Also, On almost everything proposed, the involved parties are arguing each other, needless to say, for no good. If it was ever going to be resolved by arguments, there would have been no RfA. But that's just me :) --æn↓þæµß¶-ŧ-¢(I prefer replying to each other's talk pages.) 02:09, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It certainly isn't a complete mess - just an obvious battleground. After all, everything said here - constructive and obstructive - will be weighed in the final decision, made by the old, wise men watching quietly yet with omnipresence from the top of the hill. Rama's arrow 02:20, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I still don't get the reason of a workshop. Is it supposed to show the conduct of involved parties? Or is it like a 'last way' to persuade each other? Because all the other workshops that I have seen also have discussions, but they are more like, explaining their own conduct (why I did this, how the accusation is wrong, and of course accusing too), but here it is like, everything /Evidence should have is being listed on /Workshop, just not in the 'templaty' manner. Just look at the number of diffs being listed here.--æn↓þæµß¶-ŧ-¢(I prefer replying to each other's talk pages.) 02:31, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Good observation - I think its also due to the fact that all the parties are uninitiated in ArbCom cases. Folks here need to realize that this is actually not a court - "arbitators" act as decision-makers but the process is open to all involved/interested. So I guess the workshop lets that happen. Its not like (1) give evidence, (2) receive judgment. Rama's arrow 02:59, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm. Does that mean Arbitrators can be "talked into"? :-) Because requiring more than evidence is just that, isn't it? Not suspecting there judgement capability here.--æn↓þæµß¶-ŧ-¢(I prefer replying to each other's talk pages.) 03:22, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Well yes, the purpose of the evidence + workshop is to interact as present the case and data as clearly as possible, being persuasive. To my understanding, arbitration is like a blend of dispute resolution, mediation and court-style rulings. The only real difference is the finality of the ArbCom decisions. But if the parties are able to reach a mutual resolution by themselves, its not like the arbitrators will overrule them (unless a policy is being violated). Rama's arrow 03:29, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmmm.. well thanks for your input. (... being persuasive without being argumentative :) )--æn↓þæµß¶-ŧ-¢(I prefer replying to each other's talk pages.) 03:34, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: comment from outsider

message: Admins, what do you think of giving Wikipedia:Article probation to the involved and accused parties.? Szhaider 03:37, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ATTN Admins: Wikipedia:Article probation