Talk:Afghanistan/Archive 4

message: The History of India, Volume 2, chpt. 76
... took place in the year 621 H. (1224 A.D.) One year and six months after, the chiefs of Ghor through this irruption of the infidels, joined Násiru-d dín. Towards the end of the year 623 H. (1226 A.D.), the army of Khilj, consisting of all the forces of Khwárizm, under the com­mand of Malik Khán Khilj, invaded the lands of Mansúra, one of the cities of Siwistán. Malik Násiru-d dín marched to expel them, and a battle ensued, in which the army of Khilj was de­feated and the Khán of Khilj was slain. Malik Násiru-d dín then returned to Multán and Uch. In this same year, the compiler of these leaves, Siráj Minháj, came from the country of Khurásán, via Ghaznín and Mithán, and thence reached Uch by boat, on Tuesday, the 26th of the ...
... enterprising man, he used to make incursions into the districts of Munír (Monghír), and Behár, and bring away much plunder, until in this manner he obtained plenty of horses, arms, and men. The fame of his bravery and of his plundering raids spread abroad, and a body of Khiljís joined him from Hindustán. His exploits were reported to Sultán Kutbu-d dín, and he sent him a dress and showed him great honour. Being thus en­couraged, he led his army to Behár and ravaged it. In this manner he continued for a year or two to plunder the neigh­bourhood, and at ...
The Muntakhabu-’rukh, Volume 1, chpt. 180
... 495, 512, 525, 537. Khāwind Naqshbandī, Khwāja, con­temporary of Bābar, 446. Khazāinu-l-Futūḥ, known also as the Tārīkh-i-‘Alāī, 252 and n 1, 266. Khīlī, the betel in the form it is offer- ed for sale, 303 n. Khilj, the,—a Turkish tribe of Ghūr of Afghan people, 81 n 2, 86, 88 n 1, 191, 230 n 1, 231. Khiljī, son of Sulān Mu‘izzu-d-Dīn Muḥammad Sām Ghūrī, 69. Khiljī, Rāo, Governor of the fort of Bhaṭ at the time of Tīmūr's inva­sion, 355 n 4 Khiljī Sulāns, the, 475. Khiljīs, the. See under the tribe of Khilj. Khing bud, or the white idol, one of two enormous images in Bāmiān, 46 n 1. Khirad Nāma, one of the works of Maulānā Jāmī, 272 n 1. Khīrī, a flower, 173 and n 3. Khiā (Cathay), ...
The History of India, Volume 2, chpt. 98
... dín arrived at Ghazna', where he was joined by many bodies of his adherents, and assumed the pomp and circumstance of a monarch. When Yamín Malik heard, in Hindustán, of the Sultán's arrival at Ghazna, he hastened to meet him. Aghrák Malik, also, with an army of Khiljís and Turkománs, came from Pesháwar' to do him homage, and A'zam Malik brought a large force of Ghorians to serve under him. In all the troops now at his disposal amounted to twenty thousand cavalry. The Sultán went with these large reinforcements to Parwán, on the ...
... were unable to endure, and were reduced to great misery, so they abandoned the contest, and returned to their homes. When the winter was over, the nephew of the Rájá of Láhore returned to the attack with a fresh army. On this occasion, also, the men of Kábul and of Khilj brought up their reinforcements. The armies met between Karmáj and Pesháwar. Sometimes the infidels gave battle, and drove the Musulmáns to the hills; sometimes the Musulmáns took the offen­sive, and repulsed the infidels at the point of the sword. When the rainy season came on, the infidels were anxious about the rising of the waters of the Indus, so, without knowing whether they were victorious or defeated, they retired to their homes. The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were ques­tioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, “Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and dis­turbances.” ...
... Láhore and the infidel Gakkhars ended in war, the Gakkhars formed an alliance with their neighbours the Afgháns. The Rájá of Láhore made peace; and, to put an end to contention, he ceded to them some districts of the Lamghánát, and associated with them the tribe of Khilj, which, in the infancy of the Afgháns, had settled in that desert (sahrá). The conditions were, that they were to guard the frontier, and prevent the armies of Islám from entering into Hindústán. The Afgháns erected a fort in the Kohistán (mountains) of Pesháwar, which they called Khaibar; and they took possession ...
... Bin Aby Sufra. Kabul revolts from the Moslems, who are expelled. Sulim recovers Kabul, and appoints one Abdoolla to the govern­ment. Abdoolla superseded, and retires among the Afghans of the Soolimany mountains (A BIG MOUNTAIN RANGE IN MODERN PAKISTAN NOT IN AFGHANISTAN). Becomes the father of Lody and Soor, from whom two Afghan tribes derive their name. The Afghans make war on the Hindoo Prince of Lahore. The Gukkurs form a treaty with the Afghans. The Raja of Lahore cedes territory to the Guk-kurs to defend his territory from the invasions of the Afghans. 1 CHAPTER I. HISTORY OF THE KINGS OF ...
The whole Afghan history plays in modern Pakistan and India and not in modern Afghanistan which had first the persian name Khorassan. Is this a chance?? NON BECAUSE AWGHANS ARE FROM SULAIMAN MOUNTAINS AND PESHAWAR VALLEY...so called WESTERN GHAT and the pashtunes have the WORD GHAR FOR MOUNTAIN AND GHAT MEANS MOUNTAIN AS WELL!!!
BABUR WROTE HI HAD TO FIGHT AGAINST THE AWGHANS IN THEIR OWN LAND IN AWGHANISTAN THE KOHISTAN DISTRICT OF PAKISTAN!!! 
... they retired to their homes. The men (MONGOLIC ARGHUNES) of Kábul (KINGDOM) and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were ques­tioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, “Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and dis­turbances.” Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows! When the peace between the Rájá of Láhore and the infidel Gakkhars ended in war, the Gakkhars formed an alliance with their neighbours the Afgháns. The Rájá of Láhore made peace; and, to put an end to contention, he ceded to them some districts of the Lamghánát, and associated with them the tribe of Khilj, which, in the infancy of the Afgháns, had settled in that desert (sahrá). The conditions were, that they were to guard the frontier, and prevent the armies of Islám from entering into Hindústán. The Afgháns erected a fort in the Kohistán (mountains) of Pesháwar, which they called Khaibar; and they took possession of the country of Roh. During the ascendancy of the Sámánians, these (Afgháns and Gakkhars) prevented them from doing any injury to the territories of Láhore. This is why it was that the incursions of the Sámánians from first to last were made by way of Sind and Bhátiya. Roh is the name of a particular mountain, which extends in length from Swád and Bajaur to the town of Siwí, ...
... Hasan Abdál to Kábul. Kandahár is situated in this territory. When the throne of Ghazní came to Alptigín, his general Subuk-tigín made several attacks upon Lamghán and Multán, and carried off many prisoners. Unable to endure these attacks, the Afgháns applied in their extremity to Jaipál, the Rájá of Láhore, and com­plained of Subuktigín's inroads. Jaipál was aware that the army of Hindústán could not continuously occupy those parts, in con­sequence of the extreme cold; so he consulted with the Rájá of Bhátiya, and by his advice he called to his presence Shaikh Hamíd, a man of great consideration among the Afgháns, and raised him to the dignity of amír. Shaikh Hamíd in this way obtained possession of the territory of Lamghán and Multán (two of three main capitals of Awghanistan), and carried on the government on his own behalf. Thus, at that date the Afgháns obtained an amír of their own, and became people of importance. When Alptigín was dead, and Subuktigín had succeeded him, Shaikh Hamíd thought it advisable to avoid war; so he sent to Subuktigín a message, saying: “You and I are both Musulmáns, and so ...
... army of the Mughals being firmly determined either to slay Dáúd or fall themselves, met him in the battle-field; where, after many valiant rencontres, the Kálá Pahár, or “Black Mountain,” who led the advanced guard of the Afgháns, was repulsed and slain. The Afgháns were then put to flight. Dáúd Sháh Kirání was brought in a prisoner, his horse having fallen with him. Khán Jahán, seeing Dáúd in this condition, asked him if he called himself a Musulmán, and why he had broken the oaths which he had taken on the Kur'án and before ...
... soon recovered his health at Dehlí. Whilst the Sultán was thus engaged in endeavouring to restore cultivation, the news was brought that Sháhú Afghán had re­belled in Multán, and had killed Bihzád, the náíb. Malik Nawá fled from Multán to Dehli. Sháhú had collected a party of Afgháns, and had taken possession of the city. The Sultán pre­pared his forces and marched towards Multán, but he had made only a few marches when Makhdúma-i Jahán, his mother, died in Dehlí. * * The Sultán was much grieved. * * He pursued his march, and when he was only a few marches from Multán, Sháhú submitted, and sent to say that he repented of what he had done. He fled with his Afgháns to Afghánistán, and the Sultán pro­ceeded to Sannám. From thence he went to Agroha, where he rested awhile, and afterwards to Dehlí, where the famine was very severe, and man was devouring man. The Sultán strove to restore cultivation, and had wells dug, but the people could do nothing. ...
READ MORE ABOUT THEM HERE: http://persian.packhum.org/persian/index.jsp?serv=pf&file=03501050&ct=0 --Tajik-Professor 15:05, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, so we cannot put all this long text in the article. Here's the resume and the main message of all this text, which you had written: In his Baburnama, Babur calls Afghanistan the southern territories of Kabulistan and north of Kandahar that were inhabited by nomadic Khilijs (Ghilzais) (Kuchis) who traveled from Sindh to Khorasan and from Khorasan to Sindh. Khilijs were also called "Afghans" by Babur. and it is there in the text, no one removed it.Ariana310 15:54, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ABOUT KHILIJ-AWGHANS IN BABURNAMA 

message: I wonder about the description of the book Afghanistan: The Genesis of the Final Crusade as "an insider's perspective of the war on Afghanistan". Apparently it is written by a Pakistani living in Cananda, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICSSA. Therefore, hardly an "insider's perspective". It is also  clearly an extremely partial opinion in the debate, being published by a thinktank promoting an Islamic State. I would suggest either changing the description to "Afghanistan: The Genesis of the Final Crusade, the view of a conservative Islamic thinktank on Afghanistan and 9/11" or preferrably removing the link alltogether as irrelevant for the article.
:This page is semiprotected; any username more than a few days old can edit it. There is no need for administrator assistance to edit this page. — Carl (CBM · talk) 12:35, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links 

message: Koreans in Afghanistan are in dilemma while South Korean Government have banned travel to certain places including Afghansitan since the abduction of 22 Koreans social worker. Read 2007 South Korean hostage crisis in Afghanistan. Hundreds of Koreans stayed in the dry country have given help to the Afghan people. But they were hard to differ the friendly Afghan and the bad Taliban.
back to goguryeo 07:12, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Dilemma for Koreans in Afghanistan

message: This section sounds like original research. Also, isn't there another possible direction where things just stay the same? --MarsRover 21:27, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree it seems to be original research. I also note that your  tag was removed without sources being added. I'll remove the section.-gadfium 20:24, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible Directions 

message: "The overall good news is the country has potential to quickly come out of poverty and become an economically stable country." 
This sentence, in the Economy section, seems to be made within a non-critical framework. Since one can also argue and bring up historical evidence of what has most often happened during western political or economic intervention in a resource-rich, global south country, I believe that this statement is one-sided, and therefore should be changed to address this, or eliminated.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.68.236.67 (talk) 07:33, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  One-Sided Speculation on Future 

message: Forum admins, please ban AfghanProfile.net from posting their link on the Wikipedia. It contains hate-speeches such as
'This site will provide information on just how barbaric and primitive these Pashtuns have been and still are.  The Pashtuns have not offered anything useful or good to  Afghanistan.'
... and:
'They do not have any kind of ties to civilization.   Civilization is when you have a permanent settlement in a region, and clearly, the Pashtuns do not have this.  And yet, as a minority themselves, they wish to control and dominate everything.'  —Preceding unsigned comment added by MrRiyadh (talk • contribs) 16:15, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hate websites 

message: I noticed the line, "Meanwhile, the Taliban managed to nearly eradicate the majority of the opium production by 2001.[53]" under the heading, "Soviet Invasion and Civil War."  I have not read Afghanistan, Opium and the Taliban but Ahmed Rashid's book Taliban: Militant Islam, Oil, and Fundamentalism in Central Asia says in chapter 9 that under the Taliban Afghanistan rivaled Burma as the world's largest producer of opium. In fact, in 1997 Afghanistan supplied 80% of Europe's heroin and 50% of the world's supply.  This book was published before 2001 so the line quoted above may be correct, but even if it is it gives the wrong impression.  The Taliban used opium for much of their tax income and early on had no intention of stopping its trade.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.146.39.29 (talk) 06:08, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opium Production under the Taliban 

message: User:Thegreyanomaly has stated tonight that "the concensus appears to support Afghan only" for demonym in the article's infobox. I am not sure if there is such a consensus. To help us through this, I am going to set up a "Request comment." Kingturtle 02:02, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, that's a little frustrating. Two days and no comments on my requests for comment. Kingturtle 12:41, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am a bit shocked that my requests for comments have attracted no responses. Did I set them up incorrectly? Kingturtle (talk) 21:12, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well when I've gone to them they redirect back to this page, so I think we just kept on talking aobut it here (i.e., a little bit above us). Carl.bunderson (talk) 21:40, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  I will set up a request for comment 

message: :We've come to a new consensus, at least for this page. There are citations for Afghani and Afghanistani, so they should stay. Carl.bunderson (talk) 20:17, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think you have achieved consensus on that point.  See Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry's freezing the article because of your edit warring.  In addition to the previous extensive discussion, "Afghan" is still the most common term of the three in English, despite attempts to invoke political correctness by those pushing "Afghani" and "Afghanistani". --Bejnar (talk) 04:21, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We had consensus. It contained the three demonyms for about a week, until Hurooz decided to unilaterally change it, without discussing in talk first, even though he had been party to the discussion on the last day we brought it up (16 Nov). Cavalry's response to edit warring does not 
mean there was no consensus. It just means that one editor was choosing to operate outside the avenues of the talk page like a civilized person, and I repeatedly reverted his changes. When the article was stable, as a result of discussion, for a week, and then was changed by one user, it shows that he is working against established consensus. Saying that 'Afghan' is "still the msot common term of the three" is demonstrative that there are three terms in English. We have reputable sources for all three, and so they must all be listed. If it's verifiable, we include it in WP. We don't include merely what is both verifiable and popular. Carl.bunderson (talk) 08:04, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: To further demonstrate that we achieved concensus on the 16th, please see here. Cronholm obviously felt we had achieved consensus, and Hurooz has done nothing to demonstrate that the sources for Afghani and Afghanistani are not reputable. He simply doesn't like them, so he wishes to act like there aren't (possibly ignorant) English-speakers who use the terms. It doesn't matter what Afghans like to be called. It sounds callous, I'm sorry, but it's true. WP isn't here to make people feel good, to be affirmative. It is here to record information, and like it or not there are people who call persons from Afghanistan Afghanis, and there are people who call them Afghanistanis. Unless the sources can be shown to be disreputable, they need to be included in our encyclopedia. Carl.bunderson (talk) 08:17, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Yes, but doesn't the very fact that it is preferred demonstrate that there are multiple options? You don't prefer A to B when there is no such thing as B; it doesn't make sense. "Afghan" should certainly be listed first, but the others are used as demonyms. Carl.bunderson (talk) 03:33, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Also, I really feel like appealing to the "preferred" demonym is trying to make WP normative rather than positive. I really don't think that is what WP is about. (And going for the normative comment) Nor do I think that is what WP should be about. Carl.bunderson (talk) 03:36, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Another authoritative source, the Oxford English Dictionary (the most comprehensive guide to English), is also quite clear about the use of Afghan: "A native or inhabitant of Afghanistan". It includes Afghani only as a currency, and does not include Afghanistani at all. пﮟოьεԻ 57 13:24, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Language and linguistics: What is/are the acceptable terms to be used as the demonym on the Afghanistan article's infobox?