Talk:Jews/Archive 12

message: Mary is obviously famous and she is in mentioned in List of Jews so should I add her in famous jews?
Zain 20:16, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: She's only famous for being the mother of someone famous. Also, she may be mythical. Jayjg  | (Talk)</sup> 20:33, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)

text: I hope that was a rhetorical question. Clearly if one person involved in the origin of Christianity is to be added to the list it would be Jesus himself. -- Jmabel | Talk
Well I didn't ask for Jesus because I thought he was not on the list of jews. (Now checked he was on the list). 
Ok now to original issue. Well I think 'reason' of being famous is not an issue here. It is only the result, 'famous' which is relevant. Second if 'mythical' (, a lot of people will disagree on usage of this term here,) is a problem then this article should write some thing like. 'People who are considered mythical by some people are not mentioned in this article'. It will be ok.
Zain 20:48, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Shoud I add mary?

message: Well he is quite 'non-mythical' Paul of Tarsus.
Please I am not asking to add some/all of them. It will make article difficult to manage. Only thing I am asking for is that this article should clarify that people who might be seen as Jews by few because of their descent are not discussed in this article because they are not see as Jews by majority. Zain 21:10, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Paul is considerably earlier than any of the Jews listed here, and his fame is in converting to/creating Christianity. Jayjg  | (Talk)</sup> 01:59, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)

text: Well that list of Jews includes a lot of non-religious Jews.  This is supposedly an ethnic group article.  It is noteworthy Jesus of Nazareth is a Jew too.
But the end result is that he is a famous jew!. Zain 20:32, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: How about Paul of Tarsus

message: Found an intersting tidbit on identification as a nationality (or not). According to Michael Riff, The Face of Survival: Jewish Life in Eastern Europe Past and Present, Valentine Mitchell, London, 1992, , page 87–88, the Polish national census in 1931 asked separate questions about religion and nationality. Of about 3.1 million Jews (by religion) in Poland at that time, about three quarters also identified it as their nationality. The remainder, explains Riff, were "either assimilated Jews or ultra-Orthodox and Chassidic Jews who opposed the concept of Jewish nationality for religious reasons." Not sure if there's somewhere this belongs in an article, but it is one of the few statistics I've ever seen polling a large number of Jews on whether they consider Jewishness a "nationality". -- Jmabel | Talk 05:18, Jan 10, 2005 (UTC)
:I believe the Candian census allows one to enter "Jewish" under both religion and ethnic origin.   While the majority of respondents enter Jewish for both, inevitably some people enter Jewish for one, but not the other. Jayjg  | (Talk)</sup> 05:27, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nationality 

message: My (genuinely) ignorant question: I don't speak Hebrew. I gather that with reference to Jews as citizens in Israel there is an important distinction that is expressed by two Hebrew words, roughly ezrahut and leom. Is this true, if so what is the distinction, and is there some article that should mention this? -- Jmabel | Talk 23:05, Jan 31, 2005 (UTC)
*So... someone recently got back to me, asking not to be quoted so I won't name him, saying ezrahut is roughly "citizen" and leom is "national". Which is a clue, but not a full explanation. And I'll ask again: is this something that belongs somewhere in Wikipedia, and if so where? -- Jmabel | Talk 21:23, Apr 11, 2005 (UTC)
**In modern Hebrew Ezrahut would be "citizenship", Leom would be "nationality". Leom can be Jew, Arab or Druze, or it can be left blank.  Ezrahut would typically be "Israeli".  I don't think they put "Leom" on identity cards any more. Jayjg (talk) 22:00, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ezrahut / leom