Talk:Irish property bubble

message: The introduction really needs work. It needs to be *far* more neutral and less loaded, and needs to more clearly set the context for readers from various people around the world who don't know squat about Ireland or it's current condition (e.g. 4th highest GDP per capita in the world - 2006)
The latter sections of the article are perhaps more interesting.
In any case, lots of work needed, but this is a genuinely useful topic for Wikipedia to include, as it is one of the more important topics concerning contemporary Ireland that needs to be documented here.
zoney  ♣ talk 22:48, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Introduction section 

message: Current article name is not NPOV, I propose moving it to a name which does not presuppose one of the POVs it describes. Demiurge 16:28, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Real estate bubble and Japanese asset price bubble are fine where they are (the first describes the general phenomenon and the second describes a historical event), the other articles suffer from the same syndrome as this one so I'd be inclined to rename them too. However, pending that, I don't see why we can't rename this article -- why should the poor naming of those articles prevent us from fixing this one? Demiurge 18:04, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Agree. As per Demiurge's points. Plenty of citable references exist regarding 'bubble' nature of the market, but it is still a POV - albeit with economic credibility. Ekilfeather 18:19, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The theory of evolution is a well-defined concept with countless notable adherents and countless published articles in reputable sources. Contrast that with the original research and uncited facts in this article. Demiurge 11:33, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In mentioning the evolution article, my point was that the title itself is not inherently POV (since the article name is under discussion here). From what you are saying, it seems clear that your objection, then, is to the content of the article as opposed to its title. Pathlessdesert 14:25, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Based on the strong opposition above to the requested move, I have declined it. Martinp23 19:44, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Requested move

message: I removed claims tagged with  along with the "unreferenced, original research" tag as per WP:CITE. Pathlessdesert 22:34, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unverified claims 

message: Where is the RFC section? --- Skapur 17:14, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  RFC?

message: One argument I have heard that is not detailed here, is that the Irish house market was historically drastically undervalued (i.e. because most people in Ireland didn't have money in say, 1980s-early 1990s - and those who did didn't need to spend much to live like a king as a result).
Any sources for this, or analysis? While some (maybe even most) of the house price increases are not necessarily based in reality, it doesn't seem strange that houses in idyllic locations in Wicklow for example have gone from prices of tens of thousands to a million or more in just a couple of decades.
zoney  ♣ talk 15:41, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Argument not included 

message: May I start by saying I actually agree that Irish property appears (in my subjective opinion) to be overvalued; however the level of bias in this article is breathtaking. By definition the existence of an asset price bubble cannot be proven until that bubble bursts. May I suggest adding the following facts to balance the overall polemic:
1) Ireland still has one of the lowest amounts of housing per head of population of any country in Europe. In 1970 on average 4 people occupied every household; in 2001 this had declined to 3. The Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors as late as 2004 described Ireland as being 'towards the bottom of the Housing Availability League' (RICS European Housing review 2004). To a considerable extent the building boom reflects the fact that housing supply is still well behind the European norm and Ireland is finally attempting to catch up with its continental neighbours.
2) Because supply of property is inelastic (it takes time to move) any advance in incomes is likely to have an immediate effect on house prices, especially where supply starts from a position of being inadequate. In this context, increased house prices can in part be explained as the natural effect of rising incomes: according to the Central Statistics Office the average Irish industrial wage rose by 42% between 1998 and 2005, with take home pay rising by even more due to significant cuts in taxation.
3) Ireland is currently experiencing exceptionally high rates of immigration and the argument is frequently made that it is natural for this surge in demand for housing to push up house prices. Even if immigrants only rent (in fact many are clearly becoming property owners themselves) the argument can be made that this makes owning an investment property more attractive to others. Others counter that a housing boom dependent on immigration, which is in itself dependent on the overall health of the jobs market, is capable of increasing the eventual likelihood of a property price bust. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 205.156.117.1 (talk) 18:09, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bias in article 

message: The growth background section should really describe the enormous amounts of money being borrowed from credit institutions, and the loose prudential policies being applied by banks. The wide availability of credit, rather than the price-stability policies followed by the ECB, is the driving force of the boom in house prices.
Subprime lending and mortgage-backed securities should also be dealt with.--Shtove 20:33, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Loose lending 

message: Someone document the bust, please.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.226.80.254 (talk) 08:37, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Bust

message: Most of this article is way out of date, the talk page is hilarious because I had forgotten how in denial most of us were at the time but anyway here are some links that should help get someone started updating it:
http://www.daft.ie/report/ 
http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/StatisticsandRegularPublications/HousingStatistics/
http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/StatisticsandRegularPublications/PlanningStatistics/
http://www.environ.ie/en/DevelopmentandHousing/Housing/News/MainBody,25485,en.htm
http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Europe/Ireland/Price-History  
http://www.cso.ie/statistics/Construction.htm
Seos (talk) 14:11, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Massively out of date 

message: Hi, I'm MartinD on the Dutch Wikipedia and Commons. I'm the one who made the graph featured in this article, using data from Permanent TSB. However, Permanent TSB has not been updating its numbers since 2010Q2. Recently the Irish CSO has published monthly index numbers, starting at 2005. These have been used in :File:Irish house prices Central Statistics Office.png. Best regards, MartinD.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.171.19.139 (talk) 19:30, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Perhaps better graph? 

message: Some reliable figures relating to migration - notoriously difficult to find considering - need to be added. The number of houses/homes in Ireland doubled in the decade to 2007 (- a remarkable occurrence in any Nation in recent history, surely ? ), and, as stated, this can't be accounted for by an earlier rise in birth-rates that necessitated the increase.
There are also the non-EU accession migrants to be added - there are numerous reputable records from the early 2000s referring to the increase in registered births to foreign-born parents increasing to 80% of all births for a couple of years - it was used as the reasoning behind the Citizenship referendum, so there's plenty of contemporary journalism from the time. While there are aspects here that are usually quietly glossed over to avoid immigration-related incitement,it can, of course, all be handled neutrally; no article purporting to deal with the Irish housing boom will be even nearly relevent without addressing migration fully.
In the long run, I think, this article will need to be expanded/amalgamated with the story of the Irish banking crisis/collapse, and the resultant Bank Guarantee, as the whole 'building-boom' story is part of the same story. The full history of it all has yet to be written, of course.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.76.203.100 (talk) 20:44, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Further Factors in the Demographics Section 

message: Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources.  Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you.  Osiris (talk) 14:49, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyright problem removed 

message: Cyberbot II has detected that page contains external links that have either been globally or locally blacklisted.
Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed, or are highly innappropriate for Wikipedia.
This, however, doesn't necessarily mean it's spam, or not a good link.
If the link is a good link, you may wish to request whitelisting by going to the request page for whitelisting.
If you feel the link being caught by the blacklist is a false positive, or no longer needed on the blacklist, you may request the regex be removed or altered at the blacklist request page.
If the link is blacklisted globally and you feel the above applies you may request to whitelist it using the before mentioned request page, or request it's removal, or alteration, at the request page on meta.
When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags.
The whitelisting process can take its time so once a request has been filled out, you may set the invisible parameter on the tag to true.
Please be aware that the bot will replace removed tags, and will remove misplaced tags regularly.
Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:
*http://www.banking-business-review.com/news/anglo_irish_bank_posts_massive_loss_of_41b_010609
*:Triggered by -business-review\.com\b on the local blacklist
If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.
From your friendly hard working bot.—cyberbot II NotifyOnline 17:33, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blacklisted Links Found on the Main Page 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Irish property bubble. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111104193158/https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflets/it65.pdf to //www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflets/it65.pdf
*Added  tag to http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/ffpd-policy-to-blame-for-economic-ills-claims-report-2554051.html
*Added  tag to http://www.independent.ie/opinion/editorial/look-to-boston-not-to-berlin-26232084.html
*Added  tag to http://www.herald.ie/opinion/columnists/dan-white/id-rely-on-astrologer-fergus-more-than-central-bank-chief-1822588.html
*Added  tag to http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/brendan-keenan/fixing-the-government-is-now-more-important-than-fixing-our-banks-1835596.html
*Added  tag to http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/mad-as-hell-at-ireland-2506518.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131124180315/http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/portal/page/portal/hicp/data/database to http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/portal/page/portal/hicp/data/database
*Added  tag to http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/the-smart-ballsy-guys-are-buying-up-property-right-now-1047118.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 17:01, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Irish property bubble. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110706085845/http://www2.wu-wien.ac.at/rof/papers/pdf/Bris-Koskinen-Nilsson_Euro%20Effects.pdf to http://www2.wu-wien.ac.at/rof/papers/pdf/Bris-Koskinen-Nilsson_Euro%20Effects.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111225005340/http://www.esri.ie/irish_economy/permanent_tsbesri_house_p/ to http://www.esri.ie/irish_economy/permanent_tsbesri_house_p/
*Added  tag to http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/banks-regulator-says-response-to-crisis-was-lsquoinsufficientrsquo-1833220.html
*Added  tag to http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/top-watchdog-job-to-be-split-three-ways-in-regulatory-overhaul-1793401.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 21:55, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 8 external links on Irish property bubble. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060820055524/http://www.davydirect.ie/other/pubarticles/econcr20060329.pdf to http://www.davydirect.ie/other/pubarticles/econcr20060329.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060928182255/http://www.davydirect.ie/other/pubarticles/wmc20050926.pdf to http://www.davydirect.ie/other/pubarticles/wmc20050926.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070312132825/http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2005/07/31/story6785.asp to http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2005/07/31/story6785.asp
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120518042015/http://www.esri.ie/publications/latest_publications/view/index.xml?id=2277 to http://www.esri.ie/publications/latest_publications/view/index.xml?id=2277
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150924002319/http://www.esri.ie/UserFiles/publications/20070628164646/QEC2007Sum_SA_Kelly.pdf to http://www.esri.ie/UserFiles/publications/20070628164646/QEC2007Sum_SA_Kelly.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090828195928/http://www.thepost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt%3DIRELAND-qqqm%3Dnews-qqqid%3D42133-qqqx%3D1.asp to http://www.thepost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt%3DIRELAND-qqqm%3Dnews-qqqid%3D42133-qqqx%3D1.asp
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120422041419/http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/publications/meb2011/december.pdf to http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/publications/meb2011/december.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060820055524/http://www.davydirect.ie/other/pubarticles/econcr20060329.pdf to http://www.davydirect.ie/other/pubarticles/econcr20060329.pdf
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 20:38, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Irish property bubble. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130831043539/http://www.eu-financial-system.org/fileadmin/content/Dokumente_Events/second_conference/Dvorak.pdf to http://www.eu-financial-system.org/fileadmin/content/Dokumente_Events/second_conference/Dvorak.pdf
*Added  tag to http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2008/10/19/story36784.asp
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 20:09, 4 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Irish property bubble. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060928012805/http://www.environ.ie/DOEI/DOEIPol.nsf/0/7d381a74476b3eff80256f0f003bc838/%24FILE/R%26O+2005+Final.pdf to http://www.environ.ie/DOEI/DOEIPol.nsf/0/7d381a74476b3eff80256f0f003bc838/%24FILE/R%26O+2005+Final.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061001210718/http://www.esri.ie/press.cfm?t=Press+Area&mId=5&article=144 to http://www.esri.ie/press.cfm?t=Press+Area&mId=5&article=144
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 02:30, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified