Talk:Aster (missile family)

message: The article mentions that the Aster 30 AAM has a range of up to 120km, whereas the Standard SM2 (block 3 i believe) has a range stated of some 167km - approximately 50% longer. Whilst no more than a naval enthusiast and with no experience in the area, i would have thought that such a range reduction in comparison would have at least led to a mention somewhere. After all, isnt it easier to destroy an inbound aircraft with many ASMs on their racks at long range, rather than dealing with multiple, agile and faster targets at a shorter range? In essense, is the short range of the Aster missiles (the 15 effectively being point-defence only) a concern? Kirby Rourke 11:42, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, it gets even more complex than that.
*First of all, there are substantial discrepancies in reported ranges. Aster 30 actually has ranges estimated from 80-120km. SM-2 actually has two or three common estimates flowing in the "marketplace". The most common being 74km and >138km (for some reason numbers in the middle aren't very popular). IMO, the lower range is more consistent with alternate measures, since most agree the SM-1 has a range of 46km, and the SM-2 has about 60% more range due to the more efficient INS/CG/SARH guidance.
*Second point, the Aster 30 is a lighter missile than the Standard.
*Furthermore, any missile is a mix of compromises. An applicable one is that Standard is slow for a long range SAM - only Mach 3.5 peak. This actually benefits it in range, because low-speed flight is more efficient. A similar effect occurs with the HQ-9 and Tien Kung II. Few would think China and Taiwan has better rocket tech than Russia and the US, yet both have a nominally 200km range (matching the S-300PMU2 and longer than the Patriot PAC-3's "big" missiles). The trick is that they are slower (~Mach 4 vs Mach 5 or Mach 6).
*Taking an extreme, the massive 9A82 Giant has a remarkably low range of 100km. This is no doubt partially due to its enormous speed of Mach 8. Since the Russians were interested in shooting down Pershing IRBMs, the compromise suited them fine, and the SA-12B came out as the first conventional ABM system against IRBMs.
*Tactically, long ranges are somewhat useful. At the very least, they can force the enemy down, and that forces them to waste fuel. Some attacking missiles have shorter ranges when fired at lower altitudes (the Kh-22/AS-4 family being an example). With active homing SAMs and datalinking, the ship's surface radar is less important. Though pK would no doubt degrade severely, you could in principle shower the enemy with your weapons using intermittent updates from an AEW helicopter or aircraft.
*In practice, however, there is a point when you just have to say "enough" as you design missiles. In practice, the enemy can plain outrange your SAM with relative ease. Other factors, like a fast speed so your director can re-allocate the guidance uplink faster. Or a smaller missile so you can put cram more onto the ship and take up less volume. Kazuaki Shimazaki 15:46, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The reason why the range in the middle might not be popular is perhaps because of the difference between SM-2 MR and SM-2 ER - the extended range variant could be the source of the higher quote. But thankyou kindly for your input, i hadnt considered the speed of the missile as a major determinate as i figured it wouldnt be important if the target was comng right at you, however in the role of area defence, the target might not actually be the ship (or whatever), rather some third target which still needs to be protected. Your reply was enlightening :). 220.235.159.58 03:27, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Range 

message: This article could benefit from a new paragraph that objectively compares the euro Aster with the american Standard SM-2 and SM-3 systems. In weapons markets it is conventional wisdom that european products look good on paper and in tests, but can never match the combat performance, delivery on schedule and reliability of US products (e.g. JAS-39 / Eurofighter / Rafale are still not fully fielded, yet cannot match the vintage-based F-16 Block 6x and F-15E). 82.131.210.162 12:13, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Standardize 

message: 1) Can the onboard radar really track 300 objects?
2) What is meteo, in the context of the role of an onboard radar system?  Davidelit 07:07, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Onboard means shipboard in this context. I'm pretty sure "meteo" means it can act as a weather radar to detect masses of clouds and rain. --Kazuaki Shimazaki 09:47, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  That makes more sense. I was wondering how the manufacturers bent the laws of physics to fit all that capability on a 180mm antenna! In any case, that section is ambiguous at best, and presumably belongs in an article discussing the entire weapons system, including the radar. Unfortunately, I'm not the person to write it as I don't have any info... Davidelit 11:32, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I just changed "onboard" to "shipboard" - even though the Aster system seems to have a land variant, it seems primarily navalised so i've replaced it with that to (hopefully) reduce confusion. Whether it deserves its own article is still open for debate. 58.7.187.79 (talk) 10:32, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Characteristics Section - are you sure?

message: the radars sections isn't based on facts. to which radar does the quoted numbers fit? arabel, empar, herakles or sampson? e.g. eurosam.com quotes >100 tracks and 10 engagements for arabel and up to 300 tracks/ 12 engagements for empar.
Radar2010 (talk) 21:28, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: radar section

message: I'm seeing mention starting to emerge of an "Aster Block 2" developed as an ABM missile for medium range ballistic missiles. Details seem pretty sketchy, but it seems to involve a kinetic kill head which maneuvers purely by firing little mini jets. Seems like this would be worth including. BobThePirate (talk) 12:10, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep, it appears rely totally on an endo-/exo-atmospheric KV, suggesting it's for operation where there's either no, or very little air.Z07x10 (talk) 22:00, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Block 2

message: I read somewhere that there was a proposed Aster 45 variant, with even longer range specifically designed to shoot down satellites. I don't know if research ever went forward but it might be interesting to note if someone knows a good source. Antarctic-adventurer (talk) 20:32, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Where?Other dictionaries are better (talk) 09:33, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  See here under 'Anti-Ballistic Missile Capability' and here to name but two. There are many references out there on the web. It seems that there was an Aster 60 proposed as well. The key part is: "It's hoped to follow this with a "Block 2" version capable of dealing with much more sophisticated and longer-range (1,000+ km) ballistic missiles, this will use a new "Aster 45" missile with an enlarged booster stage and if the go-ahead is given in 2002 it could enter service around 2010-2012.  As of June 2005, Aster 45 has no firm timeline." Antarctic-adventurer (talk) 10:36, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

text: So the theUK and France want to join in the ABM game too. I thought Aster 30s were enough.147.188.254.237 (talk) 11:42, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aster 45 

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thread_title:  Blacklisted Links Found on the Main Page 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The Map with Aster operators, labeled "Map with Aster operators in blue" appears not to match the lists of current and potential future operators.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.74.130.171 (talk) 11:44, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Map with Aster operators

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Ok, as common knowledge already, for the same source, there should only be one citation as main, while the rest should just be the reuse of it. It is to avoid excessive words in the page codes while also establishing better code readability. Now is there something I missed? Using the same citation in full length coding for multiple uses (at least 13 times IIRC), then someone will edit using ref names, yet the original editor restored it in that "unnecessarily" lengthy format. So what's the justifiable advantage of that lengthy format? If none, then kindly undo your edits. WaterMirror17 (talk) 16:30, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  What's the logic of avoiding "ref name" format? User:Jules Agathias