Talk:Pennine Alps

message: This page is just a list of peaks and passes. I could translate a little from other wikipeida's, but there is an inconsistency. The German article reads that:
*the name Pennine Alps is synonimous for "Walliser Alps" (so i made an interwiki link)
*the Walliser Alps' western border is the Great Saint Bernard Pass
However, this article states that: the Pennine Alps include the mountains of the Haute Savoie, for example the Mont Blanc, west of the St. Bernard. So I wonder which of the two definitions is true, and also if we should include "Walliser Alps" rather than "Pennine Alps", as the term is hardly used anymore. Maybe it was in 1911... Woodwalker 13:34, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Italans geography's books say  Graian Alps ending in Col Ferret and Pennine Alps starting from Col Ferret; the term  "Pennine" is normally used  at the moment in italians schools. Part of Graian alps and Pennine alps are in italian territory and can be that even italians geographs know Alps mountains.
I've been looking around on some online encyclopedia's, and there are several names and limits out there. The divisions currently on wikipedia are from EB1911, that's probably outdated. The western limit of the Pennine Alps is sometimes Col Ferret, sometimes Great St Bernard Pass. An overview:
source           	south of Little St Bernard	between Little St Bernard and Col Ferret or Great St Bernard	east of Col Ferret or Great St Bernard
EB1911           	Graian Alps               	Pennine Alps                                                	Pennine Alps
Italian sites    	Alpi Graie                	Alpi Graie                                                  	Alpi Pennine
German wikipedia 	Grajische Alpen           	Savoyer Alpen                                               	Walliser Alpen
French wikipedia 	Alpes Grées               	Alpes Grées/Massif Mt Blanc                                 	Alpes valaisannes
Britannica online	Graian Alps               	Mont Blanc group                                            	Pennine Alps
Columbia online  	Graian Alps               	Mont Blanc group                                            	Pennine Alps
Summitpost       	Graian Alps               	Mont Blanc group                                            	Pennine Alps
Maybe someone can find more scientific sources? Markussep 21:29, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Mont Blanc massif is in Graian Alps and ends in Col Ferret. That’s say people living in Graian Alps. What Britannica online says about Mont Blanc is not reliable: in that encyclopaedia I've read as well that Mont Blanc summit is in.... French territory. I think Italians encyclopaedias are enough trustable about Italian territory than anyone else.You can find here  the alpine arch’s geographical subdivision.--Shardan 09:26, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

text: That's an interesting link! I just found the article, including maps, at . If I understand correctly, but I can't really read Italian, this subdivision is a proposal, based on several international subdivisions, but intended for use in Italy. I haven't found any non-Italian links to SOIUSA yet. I did find another recent subdivision, at www.diealpen.at. I don't think the Italian version is online already. Markussep 10:47, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Markussep, the first map is the old Italian classification, but the second one in the new international classification. That one has been  verified by the most importants Europeans geographs  an the whole result has been concretised in the  "Atlante orografico delle Alpi", (Italy December 2005 by  Priuli & Verlucca . The 6 alpine countries  (Italy, Switzerland, Austria, Germany, Slovenia and France) are agreed about this last classification. The entire alpine arch has been divided into:
* 2 parts (PT)
* 5 sectors (SR)
* 36 sections (SZ)
* 132 sub-sections (STS) 
* 333 super-groups (SPG)
* 870 groups (GR)
* 1625 sub-groups (STG)
Mont Blanc code identification is:  " 7.V.2."  and its means:
* 7 = section 7 = Graian Alps (one of the 36 sections)
* V= fifth (Latin number) for sub-section fifth (one of the 132 sub-sections – STS.V =Mont Blanc Group)
* 2=second group (GR.2) – in orographical (?) order - of the fifth sub-section in the seventh alpine section. --Shardan 15:50, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

text: It looks like a good subdivision to me, but can you give me some examples of the use of this system outside Italy? Introducing this subdivision has repercussions on other parts of the Alps (Switzerland, Austria, Lombardy) as well. I guess most modern systems agree that the Mont Blanc group is not part of the Pennine Alps. It might be the best solution to create a new article about the Mont Blanc group (and move all the applicable peaks and passes there), and add that it is considered (by some or many) to be part of the Graian Alps. Markussep 08:12, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Italy is the only country with a frontier extended on the two sectors of the Alps (Orients and western) and in every section of the two sectors the SIOUSA has designed the limits in agreement with the authority of the interested nations. In any case, according with French, the Mont Blanc is located in the Graians Alps. Many times it comes cited only like part of the Mont Blanc’s massif  (but that one is one sub-section of Graian Alps). If still you don’t find links towards the SIOUSA’s work in other languages, can be that has still not been translate.--Shardan 10:35, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Having seen no objections to the SIOUSA system, I'm going to move the Mont Blanc group to the Graian Alps article. Markussep 17:51, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

text: You may be right, but it would have been nice if you had discussed this first, before removing all peaks in the Mont Blanc Massif. Are you going to create an article about the Mont Blanc Massif? Markussep 17:40, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Extent of the Pennine Alps