Talk:Wake (ceremony)

message: The wake or viewing comes before the funeral. Otherwise, how could you see the body if it was already buried.
--Coolsnowmen 19:46, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think they meant Funeral vs. Burial ceremony. Seems like the Viewing (Wake?) could logically occur between Funeral and Burial, especially if it is at the funeral home. 「ѕʀʟ·✎」 02:24, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

text: A wake is NOT a party or social gathering. In the United States, a wake is a reviewal and prayer service for the deceased person, usually held at the funeral home, but sometimes at a church. Roman Catholics believe in Purgatory and pray for the repose of the souls of those who have died. A wake usually involves family and friends praying the Rosary and other prayers for the deceased person, and sometime hymns are sung. Refreshments are not served. Wakes are a time to express condolences to family members, but it is NOT a party or social gathering. Wakes are usually held the evening before a funeral Mass. Any type of social gathering would be held after the funeral Mass, in the form of a funeral luncheon at the church hall, a restaurant, or the home of family member. 68.12.172.182 (talk) 07:00, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  In the USA 

message: Merge from Irish wake
The article Irish wake contains some good information, which partly duplicates (and extends) information in the section on Irish wakes in this article.  Some merge is in order here. 131.111.8.96 02:48, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge 

message: Where does the word "wake" come from? Is it related to "awake"? Dmharvey 20:35, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  etymology? 

message: "or social as referred to in Canada"
I live in Canada and I've never heard this term used.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.233.162.203 (talk) 03:03, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Canadian terminology 

message: This section is plainly in a mess. It is referring to two completely different things. The Irish "American Wake" is not a wake at all, but simply something called a wake. If it should be anywhere, it should be under the "Irish Wakes" heading, however, it seems borderline trivial. A wake is something held for the dead. Howfar (talk) 22:04, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Irish "American Wakes" vs Wakes in America" 

message: I think that this article pretty much needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. While there is plenty of worthwhile stuff here, the article does not approach the subject in an encyclopaedic manner. I'm going to start work on sourcing what I can, correcting the current overemphasis on Irish and American traditions, getting a broad but strong basic definition of "wake", removing contradictory statements and all kinds of other stuff. Anyone watching (waking?) this article? Anyone feel like lending a hand? Leave a message on my user page if you do. Howfar (talk) 00:08, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rebuild article 

message: I don't think that this article is clear enough in distinguishing between a 'wake' which appears to be an informal customary/social ceremony (although it may have some religious overtones) and a 'funeral service' which is a formal religious ceremony. The 'Irish wakes' section clearly indicates that the wake happens before, and is separate from, the funeral service -- but the Icelandic and Eastern Christian sections instead describe this service rather than a 'wake' in the Irish sense. Given that nothing in this article (including the very definition of 'wake') is referenced, and the Icelandic and Eastern Christian are neither called wakes and are distinguishable from the English-language/Irish use of the word, I'm going to delete these sections. HrafnTalkStalk 05:04, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wake vs Funeral service 

message: I note (above) that the article was going to be rebuilt, but that was in March. Six months later, and there's no description here of what people might actually *do* at a wake. Can we please have some? 86.136.250.66 (talk) 11:49, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yes, but what *is* it? 

message: I have attended wakes for my parents and grandmother - brought up as Northern Irish Protestant.  Always before funeral and little/no religious ceremony. Eleanor2.10 (talk) 21:34, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wake (ceremony) 

message: Little better than a dictionary definition. Whoever decided to merge th old (better) Irish wake article with this piece of crap is/are freakin moron(s). Isn't the purpose of merges and edits to IMPROVE quality?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.53.144.139 (talk) 04:55, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Article is horrible

message: The words are often used interchangeably, and both articles could use work. I think we should combine Wake (ceremony) with Viewing (funeral), under whichever term is more common, and start rebuilding from there. TeeRebel (talk) 09:26, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Wakes & viewings are related, but not necessarily the same thing. You can have a wake without the body being present, and a viewing at a funeral home would not be considered a wake. I therefore think that they should be seperate sections in the same article. The logical place for such information to be held would be at Death customs (which currently redirects to Death and culture#customs). If/when a specific custom achieves sufficient coverage, they can be spun back out per WP:Summary style. HrafnTalkStalk 11:24, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge with Viewing? 

message: What happened to this article?!! It used to be longer and filled with information. Now it has been gutted to nothing more than a stub. This is rediculous! What a waste--all that work by so many editors. Not only this article, but the information in the aricle on Irish Wake (which had been merged with this article) was lost. Now Irish wake redirects users here, but the article contains absolutely no information on Irish wakes!  I don't see any entries on this talk page by the individual who decided to gut this article. Instead of feverishly removing information, why don't we all concentrate on finding referenes? MishaPan (talk) 14:44, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed that the wholesale deletion was inappropriate; the editor should have tagged for refimprove. I have restored the fuller version, but that editor was quite right about the need for additional sources.DavidOaks (talk) 19:18, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It was tagged, it never did get sourced, so it was eventually removed, per WP:V. Restoring this material violates WP:BURDEN. HrafnTalkStalk(P) 03:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

text: I would further point out that all of the material from Irish wake was unsourced, so should not have been merged into this article in the first place without first being sourced (or at the very least being tagged for being unsourced). HrafnTalkStalk(P) 04:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: What happened?

message: Please do not restore any of this material without providing an inline citation for it to a WP:RS. Doing so is a violation of WP:BURDEN. HrafnTalkStalk(P) 03:31, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unsourced material restored in violation of [[WP:BURDEN]] 

message: In the Eastern Orthodox and Greek-Catholic Churches, when one of the faithful dies, there are special Prayers at the Departure of the Soul that are said by the priest. After this, the body is washed by family members or friends (), clothed in new garments, and placed in the coffin. An icon or cross, and perhaps the deceased's prayer rope are placed in their hands. A linen band, called a phylactery, having on it an icon of Christ, the Theotokos (Mother of God), and St. John the Baptist, and the words of the Trisagion, is placed on their forehead, to symbolize the crown of victory. Candles may be placed around the coffin (often four, to form a cross, with candles at the head, foot, and each side).
After all is ready, the priest serves the "First Panikhida (memorial service). Following the Panikhida, family and friends take turns reading the Psalms next to the body. This vigil continues until the time of the funeral itself (traditionally on the third day of death). Since the purpose of the wake is both to pray for the departed and to comfort the living, the psalms are interrupted after each kathisma (division of the Psalter) for a brief service, called the Litya, which is an abbreviated form of the Panikhida.
If the family is using a traditional coffin, with a detachable lid, the lid is stood upright outside the main door of the house as a sign that the household is in mourning, and encouraging all to come and pray for the deceased. Originally, the wake was in the home, and the body was not moved to the church until it was actually time for the funeral, at which time the priest and faithful would all gather at the home and begin the funeral service as the remains were carried in procession to the church.
When a monk or nun dies, their body is washed and clothed by one of the brethren, and they are vested in their monastic habit. The mantle is cut so that it forms a cross, and the remains are bound up in it. The klobuk is placed over the head backwards, so the veil covers the face. An icon, the cross they received at their tonsure, and their prayer rope are placed in their hands. The candle they were given at their tonsure should be one of those burning around the coffin. If the departed was a simple monk or nun, the Psalter is read over him. If he was a hieromonk (a monk who has been ordained a priest), he is vested in his priestly vestments (epitrachelion [stole] and cuffs only), and the Gospel is read over him.
If the departed was a deacon he is vested in his diaconal vestments and a censer is placed in his hands. The Psalter is read over him.
When a bishop or priest dies, his body is washed and clothed in all his vestments by the clergy, who then take turns reading the Gospel beside the coffin. An Aër (veil used in the Divine Liturgy) is placed over the face of a departed bishop or priest, a blessing cross is placed in his hands, and a Gospel Book laid in the coffin with him.
[End of removed material. HrafnTalkStalk(P) 03:31, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Eastern Christian

message: #mollygallivans.com does not appear to be a reliable source (it is simply a website promoting a tourist attraction).
#Prior discussion is not needed to revert additions based upon unreliable sources. However, as this revert has now been disputed, I am discussing it here.
HrafnTalkStalk(P) 05:33, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: You could also have asked for a better source instead of mercyless removing it. Night of the Big Wind talk 05:39, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: BTW, the whole part about Irish wakes above in "Unsourced material restored in violation of WP:BURDEN" is plain true. I have seen with it to my own surprise with my own eyes. To let the soul escape, they even smashed the window! The wake took about 30 hours. I shall see if I can find proper sourcing. Night of the Big Wind talk 05:53, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  mollygallivans.com 

message: I admit i'm astonished with the lightness the Wake ceremony has received from wikipedia.
First of all, the wake holds profound religious meaning and it wasn't merelly about the mourning of the deceased by the family.
Originally it was (in catholic tradition it still is) on the night before the burial, lasting all night, in order to protect the soul of the deceased until the body was placed in hallowed ground. The reason for the presence of family and close ones was originally to protect the deceased's soul from evil forces in an hallowed and well light place. The idea behind the creation of gargoyles (fiendish like creatures placed out the outer walls of churches) is in some way connected with this purpose of security against evil.
In southern Europe that would (and still does) take place in a room inside the church. The extensive use of candles gave this vigil ceremony the name of "velório" or others related to candles, light or vigil. Only in protestant countries the use of a funeral parlour is distinct the from the church itself. Wakes taking place at the home are unknow in this part of the globe.
I think that all religions have similar traditions and they should be registered here both with the descriptions of the rituals and the religion symbolism behind them.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.108.153.63 (talk) 17:50, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have a proposal for a change of or addition to the text? The Banner talk 19:26, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article is less than poor 

message: Most of this article was composed of complete cut and pasted sentences from the following web pages:
*http://www.sacred-texts.com/etc/fcod/fcod07.htm
*http://www.donegaltown.ie/Donegal-Town-History/An-Irish-Wake/
*http://irishamerica.com/2007/04/slainte-the-irish-wake/
*https://iris.ucc.ie/live/!W_VA_PUB_BOOKCHAPTER.EDIT?POPUP=TRUE&object_id=72342918
I have removed all the copied text as per wp:copyvio but unfortunately it doesn't leave much left. I'm sorry to have to take such drastic action but this is a serious problem. I intend to rewrite the article as and when I get time, but if someone else would like to do some in the meantime please feel free to do so. However the copied text must not be put back in without being rewritten. I have added the appropriate template below. Richerman   (talk) 01:03, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I consider your copyvio claim rather harsh but not unfair. Text 1 is indeed plain problematic, text 2 is harsh as a rewrite was possible. And I am very interested how you have checked text 4, as your link nor the article gives a link to the plain text of the chapter. The Banner talk 05:08, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not certain what you mean by text 1-4 but I'm guessing you must mean the 4 web pages above. If so the text on the fourth one is not in the book but in the website under "themes" (you have to scroll down to find it) where it says "This article examines the ascribed social roles of women connected with death in the context of pre-modern Irish society. From the "white women" who prepare and lay out the corpse, to the roles of women during the wake itself and keening women who ritually lament for the dead". In the article it said "Jenny Butler examines the ascribed social roles of women connected with death in the context of pre-modern Irish society. From the "white women" who prepare and lay out the corpse, to the roles of women during the wake itself and keening women who ritually lament for the dead". In the second one the phrase " This light relief had a certain therapeutic value for the grieving family while at the same time helping those who were keeping vigil to pass the night and so it was an accepted part of waking the dead" is lifted verbatim from the source website. Of course it can be rewritten - it can all be rewritten and then it won't be a problem. I see also that on one of your reversions I missed your comment about wakes week being mentioned in Wake (disambiguation). My whole purpose in adding that formation was to show that in England the original wake or vigil developed into a fair or a holiday and there is no tradition of a funeral wake. I find that difference to be an interesting part of the history of the development of the original ceremony and relevant to this article and I have no idea why you are so offended by its inclusion. You seem to think that this article should only be about the funeral wake whereas the original ceremony that the funeral wake came from was more than that and that history should be included. The point is to explain to anyone reading this article why there is a difference in the use of the term in England and Ireland. As there is no link in the article to the disambiguation page that is hardly helpful either - I shall add one. Richerman   (talk) 10:02, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyvio problems 

message: Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources.  Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you.  Richerman   (talk) 01:27, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Find the ones who added the copyvio and start roaring there. That will work better than here. The Banner talk 05:09, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not 'roaring' at anyone. The above text was generated by the template on the wp:copyvio page that is supposed to be added to the talk page when copyvio text is removed. Richerman   (talk) 10:07, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyright problem removed 

message: This is duplicated: The term wake originated from Middle English wakien, waken, from Old English wacan, to wake up and wacian, to be awake, keep watch.[3] 187.188.178.194 (talk) 20:42, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: OK I've removed the first one - thanks. Richerman   (talk) 21:27, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Duplicated information 

message: I fully appreciate how the article came to be in its present state, but unfortunately it now gives a highly misleading impression of what a wake is in most parts of modern Ireland and Britain, where it is a gathering of friends and family with refreshments after the funeral service. Irish wakes are more likely to be alcohol based than British ones but there are no hard rules. I can't speak for North America, but there it seems to designate a viewing of the body before the funeral, something completely different. I guess Irish American traditions are derived from the customs of rural nineteenth century Ireland rather than the Ireland of today. --Ef80 (talk) 13:41, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Misleading 

message: This article has very little information about what a wake actually is. The Origin section could definitely use some expansion and the article could benefit by adding the modern use of the word. It could also mention the different cultures that have wakes and the practices that occur during them. I noticed that the last two sentences of the Origin section do not have in-line citations as well.  Kmcguiness95 (talk) 22:15, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Potential Expansion/Improvement 

message: I will, of course, try to find citations to back this up, but I have seen some fairly exhaustive presentations regarding the Irish wake which were explicit in their assertion that one function of the wake was in fact to make sure that the deceased did not "wake" up -- that he was, indeed, dead. Many rural Irish communities had nothing even approaching a doctor, and they had few ways to know for sure other than waiting. They cite other factors of course -- the need to spread the news to family and friends being significant, but also that, during the British occupation of Ireland, a funeral was one of the only times that the Irish were allowed to gather in groups, so it became a social event. Also, wonderful old Celtic traditions about protecting the deceased from the devil, the fairy folk, etc. PurpleChez (talk) 18:33, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Much of that is very plausible, but as you say, it does need a WP:RS to go in. You're being a bit harsh about British rule in Ireland - while it certainly had questionable aspects, it didn't even attempt to stop the Irish socialising, as the longstanding and vibrant Irish pub and ceilidh culture illustrates. --Ef80 (talk) 14:22, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  "I'm not dead yet!" 

message: One thread I have come across relating to a 'wake' concerns a public perception during Victorian times when grave robbing was rife to feed the growing science of anatomy. A wake was held when quite literally people would stay awake when their loved one had been freshly interred to prevent the unscupulous robbers from seizing the corpse and transporting it to the big city using the newly developing railway network which vastly speeded up internal transport during the industrial revolution.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by WikiTramp 1942 (talk • contribs) 15:01, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grave robbing