Talk:Dreamcast/Archive 1

message: As far as controversies go, this one is pretty lame. The one on feces is much more interesting. Join us! Eyeon 09:13, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: General comment on edit war

message: This page gives the capacity of a GD-ROM as 1.2 GB, whereas the GD-ROM page says 1 GB. Anyone have the official word on this?
If the whole disk was formatted in like the high-density region, it could hold 1.2 GB.  Since part of it is formatted like a CD and part has no data, sparses the two regions, the high-density region can only hold 1 GB.
*Data session of a GD-ROM can hold exactly 1032499200 bytes (always did, because games were "dummied" to fill it out).
:I heard from a reputable source on the web discussing the hardware concerning installing BSD on the Dreamcast that the GD-ROM drive was simply made from a regular CD-ROM drive (Toshiba made) where the rotational speed was reduced by 50%.  This reduction in rotation speed compacted the data in the GD-ROM region and yielded more disc capacity.  I wanted to mention that but I couldn't find a better Talk topic to use.LighthouseJ 05:16, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: GD-ROM

message: I feel like the link to dc forums is a pure spam link, especially since it seems to be formatted in a way for search engines to pick it up.  The official Sega forums would be a better link for that spot.--Butters 19:38, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Problems with links

message: I mentioned this in my comment for my addition of the "Development" section and my moving of the "Online" section to immediately after "Technology" (which I think is more appropriate), but the pages's history now seems to display the two edits as one and has replaced my original comment. Anyway, my sources for the "Development" section are the the web pages I provided links to and the feature on the console's history in the first issue of DC-UK magazine. --Nick R 21:19, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Development section 

message: Just been scanning through the photo edit war blah. Since there seems to be a lot of personal feeling here, thought I'd comment as a neutral 3rd party with no axe to grind. Of the two images, the one of the console alone is probably the best one to use at the top of the article. While it's not as 'clean' as the one of the console and accessories, it is better as it's a picture of the main focus of the article, and it's larger, and can be enlarged for a good look at the console. The other picture just isn't big enough, and looks a little cluttered for a top picture, but it should be used somewhere else in the article. Hope this helps calm things down a little. --Djbrianuk 10:24, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks for the comment. My proposal of image always was based on information, as Windows CE mark and in the details, having the care not to become the redundant article with redundant images. I'm being pursued in a certain time for User:K1Bond007 since that I initiated my contributions in Wikipedia:WikiProject Computer and video games and he simply took the quarrel for the personal side insisting on the lack of argument and vanity. --Mateusc 19:53, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutral 3rd Party Opinion on Photos 

message: Developers took advantage of the easy development time, but games such as Sega Rally 2 lagged in performance and framerate due to Windows CE.
That's an often-repeated statement, but is it really true that Windows CE was the cause of Sega Rally 2's framerate troubles? Some people think it wasn't. Anyone know more? --Nick R 21:14, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  WinCE and Sega Rally 2 framerate 

message: I really don't have any problems with the dreamcast controller as I have relativley large hands (It is easy to use as the gamecube)I recently bought one on ebay and I enjoy it. - Z.Spy 2 November 2005
I have to remark on how very, very similar the Dreamcast controller is to the Sega Saturn analog controller, down to the Saturn one having a removable connection on the top, showing a slot connector (!). --CCFreak2K 22:37, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Controller 

message: I have removed the following section of the article; it was tagged for verification by another editor and it is not verifiable. 
This link below verifies it, click and go.
http://segadirect.jp/Catalog/CustomPages/CustomDetail2.aspx?File=underd_dc.htm
"On February 16, 2006 Sega of Japan will re-release the Dreamcast through its online store, Sega Direct. It is packaged with a refurbished Dreamcast game system, a cell phone card, and the 2D shooter Radilgy. Under Defeat (G-Rev) will be a follow-up game to be released in March of 2006 to support the re-release of the original Dreamcast game system."
This appears to have been a hoax originating on a German videogame website, . 
I can't find the original article on there anymore, but this is the site that all of the other sites are quoting. Nobody is claiming they got the information from Sega. There is no mention of it on Sega's official websites and the other sites discussing it are either blogs, forums, or reputable sites that are doubtful about the truth of it. 
If it turns out to be true (I guess we'll see on February 16) or if someone can find an official verification of it (not just Sega fans talking about it) then it should go back in. Otherwise, it should stay here. Kafziel 04:23, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with what you're saying. --Snkcube 06:26, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

text: After reading what 68.81.145.89 said on my user page, I think we should put back the return of the Dreamcast section. Since some companies do sell refurbished items, this news should indeed be real. The link he/she gave us seems to prove it. --Snkcube 08:55, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Return of the Dreamcast? 

message: Folks - I've added a link to my website (www.dreamcastgallery.com) which contains a very large collection of images showing official Sega hardware.  Ideally Sega's Japan website would have met this requirement but unfortunatyely Sega's website has relatively few images of their released hardware. My site is purely for fun and contains no advertisements and in no way is revenue generating.  My site has been around for over 2 year and hence is not a fly-by-night site.  Any objections, let me know. Bert Hardy 14:20, 19 Feb 2006 (GMT)
**Very good site, sir.  I've checked it out before--the Dannycas 02:37, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Addition of new link to Dreamcast Site 

message: Why is the article title Sega Dreamcast? (It's the same thing with the GameCube.) I'm sorry, but it the title really should be Dreamcast.—thegreentrilby 03:21, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Unless, of course, Sega Dreamcast is the official name.—thegreentrilby 04:10, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Article name

message: "Units manufactured with the version number of 2 would not read CD-R media and therefore could not be used to play pirated games, and also had the unfortunate side effect of not being able to play independent games such as the three bleemcast! discs, Feet of Fury, Inhabitants, or Maqiupai."
As a matter of fact, I have a WK version 2 (WK-2) model Dreamcast that reads homebrew games and apps off CDs just fine. How true is this statement? I believe only SA-2 Dreamcasts cannot read CD-Rs. --Guess Who 17:48, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If your version 2 Dreamcast can read CD-Rs, then I guess we can remove that line from above. --Snkcube 20:21, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Version 2 CD-ROM Capabilities 

message: While it's true that people do assert this frequently, does it have merit?
The Dreamcast stopped production due to lackluster hardware sales -- software sales were strong for the number of units in circulation.
:I don't believe it has merit.  As a DC owner during the heyday, I only comitted my first DC act of piracy *after* the announcement that the hardware was discontinued.  Pirated images ranged from 50 to 600MB, something that was not easy for people to do in 2000-2001.  I think the piracy note should be altered to downplay the significance. --Trixter 16:40, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Evidence suggests a majority of DC owners did not pirate games during the DC's active lifespan. Software sales were strong in 2001. AFAIK the reason Sega of Japan stopped production was lackluster sales of the console (especially in Japan) compared to the PS2. They never mentioned piracy. Furthermore, after stopping production of the DC, Sega continued to develop games for it. Sega's official statement was "It is becoming difficult to run businesses both for software and hardware that promises growth on growing sales. Therefore we have decided to swiftly implement a more content-oriented business in order to secure profitability." Not what you would expect a company crippled by piracy to say.  And check this out - Sega was already saying in 1999 that the DC was their last console, and that software development was the future. 71.131.181.51 17:29, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  If you talked to software publishers around 2000 when Dreamcast piracy first started to boom you'd understand that this was a great fear for a lot of companies. Once Dreamcast piracy took off around 2000 a lot of publishers became vary wary of the platform in general and it became a huge worry for product managers, and everyone involved in the publishing side of the industry that one of their press contacts might send off their copy of "Game X" to a master pirater who then has copies of "Game X" all over the internet long before the title is released to retail. Since the Dreamcast's core market was mostly made up of more hardcore gamers than most other platforms at the time and since the system required no modification to play pirated discs, piracy was in fact a huge problem. Did it have any thing to do with why the system failed in the long run? I don't really think so. The system failed for many many other reasons, but rampant piracy certainly didn't help either. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.167.117.10 (talk) 19:07, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "rampant piracy is often cited as one of the major reasons for the failure of the Dreamcast" 

message: How much did the Dreamcast sell for initially? How much were games? --Navstar 23:38, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Retail price 

message: Just wondering. Because someone said on a another site there is.
Nope. But they do jokingly talk about the Dreamcast 2 on the re-launched ign.com site. Just a lot of nostalgia. People wishing Sega could have made a successor to the Dreamcast. But if they had (made a successor), it in all likelyhood would have been named something different than "Dreamcast 2". Sega always had "new" names for their next-gen consoles (not just a higher number tacked onto an old name). --person
*Other than the Mark I/Mark II/Mark III, that is.Alcy 06:36, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is there a dreamcast 2 

message: The "technology" section is poory structured with several paragraphs of information best adressed in discrete sections within the dreamcast article and moving other information other articles entirely.  In the coming four days, (if no one else will do it) I plan on doing the following:
*Move the technical description of GD-ROM detailed here the actual GD-ROM article.
*Create and possibly edit the piracy portion into a (smaller?) subsection.
*Possibly eliminate the "technology" outright, as I doubt there will be anything left.
If you have any comments, please address then here, in the dreamcast's talk page.--Kenn Caesius 19:28, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Explantion for Cleanup tag

message: Large sections of this article, particularly the competion section, seem to have been written by a fanboy.  Claims like EA promising to support the system then going back on their word needs sources and less biased language.  The same goes for claims that NFL 2k1 sold as many copies as PS2 had hardware units on the market.  This is of questionable relevance as PS2 supply was limited and it doesn't give timeframes for either number. Ace of Sevens 05:40, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: PoV problems

message: I noticed the piracy paragraph that it mentions Warp's D2 had not been copied, but that does not appear to be completely true. While it cannot fit on a standard CD-R, the 99-minute variety is large enough to copy (although it still requires 5 of these rare discs and requires a save/swap operation with d3). I do not know if I should provide a ed2k like but search and it can be easily found on p2p networks. Perhaps we should remove this section if verified? otduff 12:42, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Piracy Paragraph concerning D2

message: "The biggest competition between the two systems was their football games (NFL 2K1 vs. Madden NFL 2001). Both games were highly regarded with NFL 2k1 having the advantage of online play (coinciding with release of SegaNet) and Madden arguably having a graphics edge. NFL 2K1 sold about 410,000 copies which was about the number of PS2s sold in America [citation needed]."
Perhaps someone should remove the last sentence as it is rather confusing.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.152.171.135 (talk • contribs) 
:*It makes sense to me.  They're sayign that NFL 2K1 sold more copies in software than PlayStation 2 had hardware units on the market.  I think this needs a source and is of questionable relevance, but it makes sense. Ace of Sevens 05:04, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  this makes no sense: 

message: I think under Piracy someone should mention this fact, it goes great with the Anti Piracy measures, if you keep doing it your GD-Rom gets which is in a way a Piracy measure!
 --Elven6 00:37, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Something to add

message: I noticed many of the Console related articles usally have screen shots of some games at the bottom of the page (Like the Saturn, N64, Game Gear, etc). So do you guys think we should do the same for the Dreamcast? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Elven6 (talk • contribs) .
:Nope. This article used to have screenshots, but using them this way doesn't meet the fair use criteria on Wikipedia. Other game system pages shouldn't have screenshots either. Normally, video game articles on Wikipedia should only have one screen shot as fair use. --Jtalledo (talk) 14:52, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 
The result of the debate was no consensus to move. — Mets501  (talk)  18:47, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Screenshots

message: Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~
*Oppose: The Sega Dreamcast shouldn't be moved. It should still be called "Sega Dreamcast" because that was the game console's real name. 24.121.73.22 23:27, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: I think this page could use some more specific references, especially for all the sales numbers being tossed around.  And the Maclean's reference is nice, but does not include an article name or author.  Can anyone find this? AgentIrons 21:13, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: The article states that the NES and several other systems featured online capabilities, Is that true?
:Yes, it's true. Read the NES article for more information. --Snkcube 10:00, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Online Capabilities 

message: All of the "Gen's" (1st - 7th) of gaming have been attacked with Vandalism recently due to the release of the Wii and PS3 next month. I suggest keeping the Anti-Vandalism mark up until after the Christmas rush. -Shanesan 20:13, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism Protection

message: When a Sega Dreamcast game is put into a standard CD player, if you play Track 2, it will tell you that the game doesn't work on a CD player. Maybe this should be added somewhere? Alakazam9891 15:44, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: CD Player

message: The chart at the bottom of the page shows the DC as being fully in the 6th generation of consoles, right alongside the XBox, which was released 3 years after DC.  It seams like DC hit mid generation, and should not be placed alongside PS2, X-Box and GC.
It's much closer to the 6th generation compared to the Nintendo 64 and PlayStation. --Snkcube 09:30, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Is DC True 6th Generation?

message: Just a few comments on this section.  VCD support has show up and disappeared a number of time, but the Dreamcast, in all its models, has never supported the VCD standard.  There was a third party piece of software released that allowed the Dreamcast to play them, only after booting that first then swapping discs.
In regards to Dreamcasts manufactured in 2001 not being able to read/play CD-R's, there seems to be a  confusion of terms, such as a Dreamcast being able to read and play CD-R's, and even more specifically, CD-R and Mil-CD.
Having made the fix before, only for someone else to reverse it, only for me to fix it again, ALL Dreamcasts, regardless of date, support reading of CD-R's.  All of them can do it, it's a media that the Dreamcast supports.  All Dreamcasts will also play CD-R's in the sense of redbook audio.  If you've burned a mix CD of your favorite songs, you can pop it in ANY Dreamcast and listen to it.
Where the confusion seems to lie in this is the difference between CD-R's (a medium that, again, all Dreamcasts support) and the term of art, Mil-CD.  A Mil-CD is a CD that a Dreamcast can run as normal Dreamcast software, except it's a normal CD, not a GD-Rom.  Pirated Dreamcast games, while being burnt onto CD-R's, are in the Mil-CD format; that's how the Dreamcast is able to run them.  It's an exploitation of a CD format not mean for what it was commonly used for.
Later revisions of the Dreamcast had the had a bios that disabled the support for Mil-CD's.  However, these revisions of the Dreamcast were 1) only available inside Japan, 2) only found in limited editions of the Dreamcast (such as the Sakura Taisen model, which leads me to my next point), 3) first released in 2000, being that the Sakura Taisen model was first available for sale 12/28/2000, and 4) any Dreamcast that didn't support the Mil-CD format specifically said it didn't on the outside box.
http://www.dcemulation.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=3168 – bleem! FAQ last edited December 21st 2001, all answered provided by Randy Linden, stating that all Dreamcasts sold in the USA (so far) will work with the Mil-CD format, and that there hasn't been a model in the USA he's been able to find that won't boot a Mil-CD.  This post also says that the Sakura Taisen does not support the Mil-CD format (it also says the Hello Kitty Dreamcast does not as well, I think this is in error, the Hello Kitty Dreamcast was made prior to Dreamcast piracy by a little more than half a year).
http://mail-index.netbsd.org/port-dreamcast/2001/02/09/0005.html – Talk of the Sakura Taisen Dreamcast being the first Dreamcast to not support the Mil-CD format, also mentions that it clearly states that on the box.
http://www.dcemulation.com/article-supported.htm – DC Emulations list of Dreamcasts that support Mil-CD and those that do not.  The original reports of Dreamcasts that didn't support the Mil-CD format came LONG before the Sakura Taisen model, but it was due to people not burning their discs correctly or having cd-writing hardware that was incompatible with the cd-writing software, which lead to the assumption of their Dreamcast not supporting Mil-CD's..  I had a mitsumi cd-writer that simple would not let DiscJuggler burn any track that was 4 seconds or shorter, which mean any Mil-CD format warez would not work.  A newer version of DiscJuggler solved that problem.  Also note that the last updated date on this page is 6/27/04, with the list saying that all Dreamcasts that were thought to not work with Mil-CD's, do, in fact, work.  This list only contained US and European Dreamcasts. 
--Fleabttn 07:46, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Compatibility 

message: I've seen an online list of DC games that offer VGA support - shouldn't there be a version of this list on Wiki and linked from the DC's Wiki article? Mr.bonus 00:08, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: VGA Support