Talk:Citizen's arrest

message: The subpage Citizen's_arrest_in_the_United_States duplicates without expanding the same section from this article, and is of approximately the same scope as other national sections. Unless someone can meaningfully expand it, it should be merged.  Pouletic (talk) 16:58, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Operator873CONNECT 01:44, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Merger proposal

message: I have added a reference link for the Canadian Criminal Code.  In general, this page is very weak, as it is just a lay interpretation of legal terms, and needs a lot of work from people with legal backgrounds.    —Preceding unsigned comment added by 120881hr (talk • contribs) 13:54, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably -  I'll get round to finding the scottish laws regarding citizen's arrests and also update the England and Wales section for the amendments made by SOCPA 2005. Barry m 23:12, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

text: In the UK the PACE caution is only required of persons with a duty to enforce legislation (can include local government officers, fire officers or even store detectives). Esthameian 21:16, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Second that comment. I removed part. It should be rephrased before possibly being put back in. --Howdybob 06:16, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: assessments

message: Sean Black removed this "silly warning":
:In most cases a general call for help or an emergency call may be more appropriate than an attempt at a citizen's arrest.
I agree that it's silly and that Wikipedia should not endorse it, let alone use it as a warning. However, it should be included in a modified form.
This is a fairly good summary of the Liberal point of view that people should not take matters of law enforcement into their own hands - ever! - but should leave it all to "the authorities". It relates to Gun control advocacy: private citizens should not use pistols or rifles to discourage robbery or assault (even in self-defense) but should (1) avoid resisting the criminal and (2) try to get away and/or call the police. --Uncle Ed 14:08, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Liberal has different meanings in different countries - not useful in this sort of discussion Esthameian 21:21, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Liberal POV

message: I can't seem to find any reference to the Matthew Cooper case on the Web.  Is there any citation available for it?  If not it will probably have to be removed. --Ross UK 19:34, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. --Ross UK 23:42, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Matthew Cooper

message: In the section on Canada, someone has added a long series of steps that an arresting citizen supposedly must take, but I can't find any reference to some of them in the Criminal Code subsection referenced at the start of that section.  As far as I can tell, the arresting citizen does not have to identify himself, tell the arrested citizen why he is under arrest (though it would seem a good idea), or advise the him of any rights such as the right to counsel.  If these requirements come from the Code, please reference the appropriate section (and make sure they really apply to the "Arrest without a warrant by any person" section, not just to peace officers).  If from case law, provide a link.  Otherwise that paragraph should be reduced to just what is covered by the citations available. PeterHansen 11:35, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Canada, requirements 

message: *Can someone make a "citizen's arrest" (grab someone and restrain them) without stating that they're making a citizen's arrest?  Wouldn't this seems to the person that's being grabbed as just an aggressive and/or violent action?
:in nevada, yes.
*In what, if any, cases can the person making the citizen's arrest punch the person they are arresting in the face?  If the person that got arrested (by a citizen) is bleeding, when the cops see them, are the police supposed to question and/or arrest the one who made the citizen's arrest for beating them up?  
:Use of force by private person in carrying out an arrest: amount of force; deadly force.  in securing or attempting an arrest persuant to NRS 171.126, a private person may only use the amount of force that is reasonable and necessary under the circumstances.  the use of deadly force in carrying out such an arrest is unreasonable as a matter of law unless the arrestee poses a threat of serious bodily injure to the private arrestor or others."
::Whether force can be used and how much would depend on the law of the specific jurisdiction.  In Canada a person who is making a legal arrest can use reasonable force against the person being arrested.  How much force is "reasonable" depends on the circumstances.  For example, if the offender is attempting to fight with you or is attempting to get away then you would be allowed to use more force than if he or she didn't resist in any way.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.81.15.153 (talk) 13:14, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think so, yes.  Questions answered by BriEnBest (talk) 23:40, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Questions 

message: ******
I removed the following:
The state of Washington does not have a specific statute granting citizen's arrest powers. However there have been several state court decisions rendered that affirm and uphold common law citizen's arrest power for (a) felonies committed in the presence of the person making the arrest or (b) misdemeanors committed in the presence of the person making the arrest provided the misdemeanor also constituted a breach of the peace.
******
This is misleading. RCW 9A.16.020 Paragraph (2) (3) (4) provide for the use of force for citizens arrest or detention depending on the circumstances:
(2) Whenever necessarily used by a person arresting one who has committed a felony and delivering him or her to a public officer competent to receive him or her into custody;
(3) Whenever used by a party about to be injured, or by another lawfully aiding him or her, in preventing or attempting to prevent an offense against his or her person, or a malicious trespass, or other malicious interference with real or personal property lawfully in his or her possession, in case the force is not more than is necessary;
(4) Whenever reasonably used by a person to detain someone who enters or remains unlawfully in a building or on real property lawfully in the possession of such person, so long as such detention is reasonable in duration and manner to investigate the reason for the detained person's presence on the premises, and so long as the premises in question did not reasonably appear to be intended to be open to members of the public;
The statement I removed indicated (erroneously) that: A) There are no statutes for citizens arrest, B) A felony must be committed in the presence of the arrestor and C) Arrest can be made for misdemeanors in certain circumstances.
I think that a special caveat re: Washington State is not necessary and confuses the issue. If a caveat is to be made, it should be made to accurately reflect the facts, which are virtually identical to most states.
M.O.
207.171.180.101 (talk) 16:51, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  USA - Washington State description misleading 

message: I think we need more information, like history and controversies, than simply a list of country regulations on the topic --Ipatrol (talk) 00:03, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  expansion request 

message: Section 27 (of the Criminal Code) concerns reasonable force to prevent the commission of a crime, not in arresting someone.  I've removed this.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.45.33.128 (talk) 16:11, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comment in Canada section wrt Section 27 

message: I've got a question. If the suspect fights with the citizen performing the arrest, is it still considering resisting arrest? I think it may be, but, it may not be. I hope my question isn't too vague.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.211.16.254 (talk) 23:40, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: In the UK, assault with intent to resist arrest is the same for public & police leopheard (talk) 00:46, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ok. Do you know, if it applies, also, in Canadian law? Thanks, so much, for the reply. --205.211.16.254 (talk) 17:25, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  I would imagine so, as Canadian law is often similar to UK being a Commonwealth etc. Have a look on a .ca government website leopheard (talk) 20:24, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  10-4. Thank you, sir. --208.96.121.65 (talk) 04:47, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question concerning Citizen's arrests 

message: This article doesn't address the most obvious questions.
1)How often do these arrests happen?
2)How often are the arrestees charged by the police, after being brought in by some random?
3)How often are they prosecuted, either by the CPS or privately?
4)How often are they convicted?
BillMasen (talk) 21:43, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Citizens arrests are relatively common in the cases of shoplifting and assaults. The majority of shoplifting cases are dealt with by the police, often through PNDs. Assaults might or might not be charged or PND'd. Private prosecutions are very rare in the UK. If you feel this sort of information should be in the article, I suggest you ask the police or the CPS for the information directly. ninety:one   23:10, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Does it ever happen? 

message: The power was repealed, as is stated in the text, by para 38 of Schedule 7 to the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005, the relevant wording being:
Para 2(4) to Schedule 1 to the Theft Act 1968 is listed in the table. ninety:one   19:57, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Power to arrest for poaching 

message: What is the legal situation when someone attempting to make a citizen's arrest is forcefully prevented — as, for example, in the recently-reported attempts to arrest Tony Blair for war crimes at his book-promotion appearances?  Who is is legally in the wrong, and why?
Should this sort of situation have a section in the current article?  It seems to be becoming increasing frequent… Paul Magnussen (talk) 17:53, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Politicians 

message: This section talks at length about "strict constructionism" and has a very long quote from California law. Its also poorly sourced.  It needs to be a general overview of the rule in the US. 
We can do a state by state list but perhaps in a different article? In the meantime, I'm editing it to be a broader understanding of US law with good sources.Randi75 (talk) 05:08, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: United States section in serious need of revamping

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The point of "citizen's" arrest is only that this person is not a law enforcement officer. So the word "citizen" is used as a metaphor for a non-lawman. Of course, police officers are also "citizens", yet Citizen's arrest authorization is not about them. The law that calls it, "any person arrest" is pedantic for stating that the person who has these powers does not need to be a British citizen. The recommendation here is that this technicality be moved to the bottom of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen's_arrest#Legal_and_political_aspect which is the section that immediately follows the Introduction. Thoughts? Bob Enyart, Denver KGOV radio host  (talk) 16:25, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clarification of "citizen" could be moved lower in the article 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: It could be of encyclopedic value to add sections for Belgium and The Netherlands as neighbour countries of them are present in the article.
Additionally, there could be a European edict governing citizen's arrests.
I propose someone researches these items and updates the article accordingly.
Aethalides (talk) 13:06, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Status of Belgium and The Netherlands / Euro zone commonalities 

message: "Use of the second power above can be risky if not used correctly as it relies upon the person carrying out the arrest knowing that an offence has been committed, of which in itself needs to be indictable or either way offence." Can someone please fix this? Equinox ◑ 22:22, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Reworded it Apeholder (talk) 02:51, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nonsensical sentence 

message: The section on the UK appears to claim that *citizens* are given power of entry under certain circumstances by the same law which provides them the power to perform a citizen's arrest.  However the source cited gives *police* power of entry under certain circumstances by a completely different law.  I think it should be clarified that citizens of the UK do not have power of entry under any current laws.  If you need to enter another person's property in order to save a life, you are still liable for trespass if the property owner did not expressly permit your entrance.  Police have power of entry in some circumstances, and fire and rescue teams are granted some power of entry under the Fire and Rescue Act 2004 (see https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/21/contents ) - but as far as I am aware and can discover through primary research, not even paramedics get any specific legislation allowing entry to save life and limb.  It's assumed that trespass and damage caused by a paramedic is probably implicitly consensual since they are there to save lives, but in non-emergency cases paramedics should seek explicit permission to enter from the property owner.213.209.114.24 (talk) 12:18, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: You are correct, the citizen's arrest England and Wales power doesn't provide a power of entry - the common law breach of the peace power does. When a Constable arrest for a BoP, he's doing so as a member of the public. The power itself is around 1,000 years old so the idea of a Constable was a very long way off. There's so more info here, I'll try and find something more in depth Apeholder (talk) 21:33, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  Just added some more references to the article that help clarify. Apeholder (talk) 21:33, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  UK Power of Entry disambiguation / clarification needed 

message: There should be link to the subject in the Finnish Wikipedia Yleinen_kiinniotto-oikeus
How to add new languages? Did only find how to remove them…  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.234.10.242 (talk) 15:04, 2 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link to the Finnish page about the subject has not been linked by bot (or anyone). How to add? 

message: Hi  - I can see you've re-added some content to the page that I've previously removed. I did cut quite a lot out because this section was getting pretty unwieldy in length and it read to me as more of a discussion of concepts around citizen's arrest which I thought was a little in-depth for a by-country article. I'm also concerned that we're going into quite a lot of original research here, though I do appreciate the time you've obviously spend researching the subject. I thought it would be helpful to discuss some of the bits you've reinstated, as there are some issues with it. 
:"Any person" powers can be used to arrest before an offence occurs as long as the offence in question falls within the Criminal Attempts Act 1981. This act creates the offence of an attempted offence, as long as the offence being attempted is an indictable. For this to apply, the offence must actually be in the process of being attempted  –  preparatory steps are not sufficient. 
This is fairly novel and having looked into it further I think it would benefit from a reliable source to support it - I should imagine it is a fairly untested area of the law and I would be concerned that we were introducing original research here.
:Futhermore, the definition of what constitutes a "crime" was clarified in R v Jones (Margaret)https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200506/ldjudgmt/jd060329/jones-3.htm which stated under the S3 CLA1967 meaning, it was held to be any domestic crime in England/Wales. Kent Police have released a brief yet comprehensive guide on reasonable force.http://library.college.police.uk/docs/APPref/use-of-force-briefing.pdf
I'm not sure what relation this has to the text about attempts that precedes it? The bit about the Kent Police guide is rather out of place here - and the guide is designed for police officers in public order situations so I'm not really sure it's relevant here?
:A citizen's arrest is a form of lawful custody and anyone attempting to flee may be guilty of attempting to escape from lawful custody. Furthermore, the offence of 'assault with intent to resist arrest or lawful apprehension or detainer of himself' may apply if the arrestee assaulted the arrestor under Section 38 of the Offences Against the Person Act 1861.http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/24-25/100/section/38 Both assault with intent to resist arrest/lawful apprehension and escaping from lawful custody are indictable, the former being so by the mode of trial of the offence, the latter is a common law offence and therefore indictable only. Therefore, these offences - whether fully carried out or merely attempted - are citizen's arrestable in themselves.
I included this text, in a more concise form, in the main section above. I'm not sure that we need to go into the level of detail of explaining that those two offences are indictable - I'm not sure it adds anything to the context because in it would be assumed that a citizen's arrest has already been effected - if the reader wants to go to this level of detail they can go into the articles on those offences.
:A citizen's arrest may also be made technically for a warrant for an arrest if the offence listed is indictable as there is no law prohibiting a re-citizen's arrest or the number of times they may be arrested for it nor is there a time limit. The warrant would satisfy the requirement for the arrester to have reasonable grounds to suspect the guilt of the arrestee. For example, if an offender failed to attend Crown court this would satisfy two conditions for a lawful citizen's arrest at a later date - that the offence had taken place and that it was obviously indictable by way of being tried in Crown court.
I removed this because it is pretty novel and I think fairly questionable. It is not accurate on the face of it (the circumstances described would not be an arrest [on] a warrant, but an arrest under s24A PACE), I think it misses the requirements of s24A around necessity, but most importantly it is not supported by any reliable sources. If you are aware of any then please do say - but I think this constitutes fairly significant original research as it stands.
:Although not technically citizen's arrest powers, any person also has the power to arrest for a common law breach of the peace which also provides any person with a power of entry. Section 3 Criminal Justice Act 1967 also provides any person the power to apprehend a person unlawfully at large e.g. an offender on a recall to prison or in the circumstances where someone has managed to escape from lawful custody.
I did leave a sentence about breach of the peace in, but I think the suggestion that the powers generally available in relation to a breach of the peace allow a non-police officer to force entry would require a reliable source - I struggled to find many reliable ones about any person powers in relation to BoP so cut it down to the bare minimum. The reference to section 3 of the Criminal Justice Act 1967 should I assume be a reference to the Criminal Law Act 1967, and that Act does not provide a power for anyone to apprehend anyone else, but rather provides that where a power exists reasonable force may be used to exercise it - if you think otherwise you would need to provide a reliable source to support that.
i hope this explains some of my thought process as to why I removed or reworded these bits, and what I see the problems as being. I look forward to hearing your thoughts! ninety:one   23:17, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  England and Wales 

message: Georgia has repealed its citizens' arrest law that was written in 1863 for purposes of rounding up escaped slaves during the Civil War, and used to justify stuff like lynchings since then.  Other states may follow with similar repeals.  This should probably go in the article. 2601:648:8200:970:0:0:0:B6C3 (talk) 05:36, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Georgia repeal 

message: The USA section lists : The term historically included theft, "nightwalking".
However, the linked article on night walking mentions just the U.K.
Teun Spaans (talk) 06:42, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  nightwalking 

message: As a reader I came to this article hoping to learn not only about the legal status of "citizen's arrest", but also information about what form it normally takes, how much it's really carried out, or at least some examples. I hope someone with more time and expertise than me can add something along these lines to the article. Many thanks in advance! GeoEvan (talk) 07:57, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Form and prevalence in practice?