Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Opposition to Iran-Iraq War

message: *Even the movie 7 Days in Tehran has been made about Reza Khatibi who escaped from Iran.  It has been published by the New York Times and reprinted by Human Rights Watch at http://www.hrw.org/iff/2002/ny/reza-interview.html.
It is a real and verifiable from story of an event from the pre-information age in addition to other external links and references — though, I shouldn't repeat myself
:Here is another one:  "8/10/87 Geneva, Switzerland Ahmad Moradi-Talebi A Colonel and pilot (deserter) in the Iranian Air force, gunned down near the Hotel Edelweiss. The assassins left a blue baseball cap behind them, as a signature." 
.--Patchouli 04:13, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *Comment None of the sources on the movie mention anything about opposition to the war. To the contrary, the cited interview with the director states: "Rather, he escaped the country in 1986 at age 17 out of an instinct for survival: to avoid fighting in the bloody Iran-Iraq war." (emphasis added) Not a word about opposing the war; he wanted to stay alive. The other link says a deserter was killed. You have not produced one single citation to link desertion or draft evasion with opposition to the war. Fan-1967 15:44, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

message: It is amazing how many Wikipedians of Iranian ancestry want this article deleted.  Maybe fleeing a war scene is inapposite to the larger-than-life images.  However, I strongly lampoon the removal of an article about a true event.
This is a double standard as we chronicle such events for other peoples.--Patchouli 03:52, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *For the record, I am an American of Irish/French/German/English ancestry. Fan-1967 17:19, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Iranian objections

message: First Compromise: Under what terms would you be willing to agree to keep this article? What is the furthest you are willing to go to achieve a compromise? By doing this, we will know where to begin in negotiation between the three parties.
Patchouli:The leader of the Iraqi Communist Party "Aziz Muhammad and his Kurdish compatriots had gained control of the ICP and that Kurdish interests therefore outweighed national interests. Muhammad's tenacity in supporting the armed struggle of Iraqi Kurds and in totally opposing the Iran-Iraq War helped to bring about a ,split in the ICP leadership. "http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?frd/cstdy:@field(DOCID+iq0113) (this is not a permanent link.  It is from the Country Sudies of the Library of Congress.)  Again, I think protests would not have been possible in either country and thus desertion is enough. --Patchouli 03:52, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Comments by the Commentor: Fan, do you consider this a verifiable source? Would you accept this as a part of the article? Scalene•UserPage•Talk•Contributions•Biography•?• 07:25, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Comments by the Commentor: Essentially, you feel that this topic currently violates the verifiability guideline. Presently, I agree with you. However, Patch has come up with what may well be an appropriate source. Would you be willing to keep the article if more sources like this were found? Scalene•UserPage•Talk•Contributions•Biography•?• 07:25, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The First Compromise 

message: *Comment User:Patchouli is pestering me at my talkpage with the following You should have read Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Opposition to Iran-Iraq War before advocating deletion.--Patchouli 14:14, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I did read the article. Then I voted to delete or merge it. Why would you think otherwise when I even quoted from the article in my vote comment? L0b0t 14:17, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you may have me confused with someone else. I did read the article and voted the way I thought best. Why are you challenging my vote on my talk page? Why are you quoting sections to me that have nothing to do with my vote, reasons, or comments? L0b0t 14:26, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

text: *Please assume good faith as you need not get on the offensive and dubb a dialogue "hectoring".  A simple question is not a "challenge".  Additionally, a talk page is for communication and clarification to promote harmony, not acrimony.  Your response is an ill-considered accusation of impropriety.--Patchouli 14:59, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I forthrightly concede that I did not like the way you voted.  I furthermore appreciate your time and examination of the matter at hand on top of recognizing your right to vote.  However, at Wikipedia, one is highly encouraged to build consensus through explanations and reasoning.  I didn't accuse you of not reading the article;  I thought perhaps due to oversight you hadn't read the discussion to this page. 
Concerning your last point on a conscription section, the Iran-Iraq War article is currently 66 kilobytes long. It is ill-advised to further lengthen it.--Patchouli 15:35, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Comment The size problem can and should be dealt with by removing all the Iranian POV about America controling the Iraqi invasion but, that is another discussion.  You are right on point about consensus though, and I apologise for misinterpreting your comments.  I still feel that an article about "opposition" to the war should include more on opposition from civilians and less on deserters and cowards.  With that said, I think an article on conscription, both Iranian and Iraqi, might be a good idea. L0b0t 16:17, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Comment There is a problem, however, with turning this content into an article on conscription, draft evasion and desertion. Pretty much most of the content is anecdotal. All of these activities appear in just about every war, especially when casualty rates climb. Was desertion or evasion more common in this conflict than in others? We don't seem to have sources that say so, just some vague commentary that there was a lot. No reliable numbers seem to be there. They're needed. Fan-1967 02:49, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  L0b0t's comments on Patchouli