Talk:Liturgical year

message: There is a lot that we could do with the Christian liturgical year. It would be nice to have articles for each Sunday — at least each Sunday has set readings in a lot of traditions. It would be good to link together the calendars of various traditions too. I propose starting from the RCL calendar as it is now the most used calendar in the western liturgical tradition, and building from that. Would anyone be interested in setting up a Wikiproject for the liturgical year? Gareth Hughes 09:56, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: See WikiProject Christian liturgical' year. Gareth Hughes 10:28, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Project?

message: I haven't read a lot of the religion articles, but is it considered suitably neutral to do things like say Easter celebrates the day of "His resurrection"?  Why not "easter is the date on which Christians celebrate what they believe to have been Jesus's resurrection"?  It couldn't hurt...
:It is factually correct to say that Easter is the celebration of Christ's resurrection. That doesn't make any statement about claims for and against his resurrection; it only says that Easter is when it's celebrated. The statement is verifiably true. Your rewording also makes for a bad read: it's better to tell it as it is. Gareth Hughes 11:56, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  npov issues? 

message: I removed the following per my understanding of WP:EL:
*i s h eaters.com/beingcatholic.html Sacred Time traditional Catholic view of the liturgical year and its customs and traditions
*Monthly Calendar of Solemnities and Feastdays
The first is a subset of a subset of Christian tradition, adequately covered in Traditionalist Catholic (Wikilinks always preferred to weblinks).  The second is a Geocities site, and not an obvious authority. - Just zis  Guy, you know? [T]/[C] AfD? 22:39, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links 

message: Easter Section needs to be expanded and the timing of the feast explained
Japeo 05:27, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. What I know is that Easter Sunday is on the Sunday after the first full moon after the vernal equinox, but I do not have any source I can cite right now. LaivineOrodrim (talk) 15:38, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: The timing of Easter is treated both in Easter and in Easter date, no need to repeat that here. (Laivine, you answered to a thread of seventeen years ago). --Medusahead (talk) 07:33, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Easter 

message: I have rewritten and expanded the paragraph on Kingdomtide, hoping to show that the basic idea is very widespread (and not restricted to one kind of tradition). In the process, I removed the statement that the United Methodist Church observed Ordinary Time from September to November as "Kingdomtide", as this seemed very surprising, given that all other denominations that I know of only use that term for the last 3 or 4 weeks. Apologies if I have removed correct information (I did check out their website, but couldn't find anything relevant)! Vilĉjo 22:59, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kingdomtide 

message: For the sake of categorization, can anyone tell my the difference between a Christian Festival and a Christian Holy Day? Can anyone give an example of an article that would fit one but not the other? I'm planning on proposing a merge of the two categories (:Category:Christian holy days, :Category:Christian festivals), because there is a lot of overlap. However, I want to make sure that there isn't a valid distinction before proceeding. -Andrew c 14:28, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: They are two terms for the same thing.  "Festival" often refers to the public celebration (fairs, festive meals, cultural traditions, etc.) of a Holy Day (or "Feast Day"), as opposed to the liturgical celebration (worship services, processions, mystery plays, etc.). But the two are closely bound together, and distinguishing them too sharply might bring about a false dichotomy.  For instance, many aspects of carnival have their origin in religious practices (religious processions turn into parades). MishaPan 06:26, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

text: In the Catholic Church, there is a hierarchy of celebrations according to their importance.  At the top are what we call solemnities, followed by feasts, followed by memorials which are either obligatory or optional.   LaivineOrodrim (talk) 15:43, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Festival vs. Holy Day 

message: I have a notion: This article says, "Should the Feasts of St. Joseph or the Annunciation fall during Holy Week, they are transferred to the week following Easter."  But the article in this link says that "in 2008 the feast of St. Joseph will be celebrated... the day before Palm Sunday, and the feast of the Annunciation will be celebrated... the Monday after the second Sunday of Easter".  Can someone fix the article with the link I've described, please?  Thank you! --Angeldeb82 03:37, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  St. Joseph and the Annunciation 

message: It may be more proper to use the expression "Roman Rite" rather than "Catholic" in several instances because not all Catholic Churches (i.e. the Eastern Rites) use the Roman Calendar.  In that sense, more effort must be made to differentiate between the pre-1969 and post 1969 Roman Calendars.  (This can be done without dredging up Traditional vs. Modern Rite animosity just as in the bit about the Feast of Christ the King.)  Since I only stumbled across this page and don't have my research materials here, I didn't want to make any changes.  I'd rather leave it up to the original author or regular contributors.  Mattvsmith (talk) 02:49, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  General style or terminology 

message: In the Ordinary Time sections, this statement, "Before the Roman liturgical calendar was reformed at the Second Vatican Council" is rather counter-factual.  The Roman Calendar was not reformed at the Second Vatican Council, but by the committee that re-worked the liturgy and took effect the First Sunday of Advent in 1969.  That's six years later. Chapter V of SC did not get into enough specifics to consider the reform as happening then and there.  Mattvsmith (talk) 02:49, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Chronology

message: It seems odd to have a single section with one festival day in it (the Assumption), let alone that it is a festival that has less universal appeal and biblical support than, say, the Annunciation. Even if it stays, I would like to see a citation for the claim that it may be one of the earliest festivals. Preferably, I would hope for either a complete section on many festivals of the sanctoral cycle, or limit this article to the major seasons and central festivals of the church year.
As a liturgical Lutheran, it seems to me that the entire article has a strong Anglo-Catholic prejudice.
Mplsbf (talk) 21:29, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Organization

message: As a frequent goer to an Anglican church, as I was looking through the article I found it a little offensive that someone had put in 'mass' instead of Eucharist as 'mass' is Catholic. I have corrected the one I found.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hanjay09 (talk • contribs) 19:05, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: language used

message: I would like to see some discussion about the history of some of these traditions. When did they start? Who started them? When was the liturgical calender solidified? This seems like a glaringly obvious omission. Rmawhorter (talk) 19:23, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: History section?

message: In describing the Hebrew calendar, the "Biblical calendar" section states
"Biblical calendars are based on the cycle of the new moon. The year is from the first new moon on or after the spring equinox to the next new moon on or after the spring equinox."
This is simply incorrect.  If the spring equinox were the earliest date for that month, then April 4 would be the earliest date on which Passover can fall, which is not the case.  Passsover can fall at least as early as March 26 and perhaps as early as March 25 (I'm not sure about the latter.)  The section appears to be original research, and inaccurate original research at that.  
I suggest deleting the section in its entirety and substituting a "see also" reference to the Hebrew calendar article.  The fact is that the term "liturgy" is a technical term for discussing Christian religious ceremonies, and "liturgical calendar" is used only to refer to the calendars of Christian church traditions and is not a broader term referring to religious holiday calendars in general.  Bob99 (talk) 17:21, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Biblical calendar" section inaccurate, contains original research 

message: I am removing the Christianity "importance=top" rating.
See Wikipedia:WikiProject Christianity/Core topics work group/Topic list for the list of Top-importance Christianity articles. As of 1 April 2009, there are just 80 articles on the list. If you would like to remove one or add one, start a discussion on the talk page first (the list is designed to be smaller than 100 articles).  19:36, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Top-importance Christianity articles 

message: There could maybe be an entry on World Mission Sunday, which was created by Pope Pius XI in 1926 as the day of prayer and propaganda of missions.  ADM (talk) 21:36, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: World Mission Sunday

message: On what grounds does User:Dwo insist that this encyclopedia should incorporate a page from a blog that provides no information about the liturgical year other than the dates of beginning and ending and the vestment colours of the liturgical seasons of Advent, Christmastide, Ordinary Time, Lent, and Eastertide in a particular year, plus the correct colours for Palm Sunday, Maundy Thursday, Good Friday and Pentecost, plus incorrect(!) colours for Epiphany (which it treats as celebrated everywhere on 6 January, not on the Sunday after 1 January), Laetare Sunday, Trinity Sunday, Corpus Christi,  Gaudete Sunday, Saint Stephen's Day, the Holy Innocents and perhaps yet more, and that omits all mention of important feast days such as Saints Peter and Paul, the Assumption, Christ the King?  What reasons (other than perhaps that the blog is Dwo's own) can Dwo advance for its inclusion in Wikipedia?  Esoglou (talk) 16:05, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see the word "merely" above.  If I had found it, I would have struck it out.  Let us talk about substance, not words.  Is it encyclopedic to include a private blog?  Should an encyclopedia include a blog that gives information that could be given in a short paragraph indicating the vestment colour for five liturgical seasons and the dates, in one particular year, of those seasons, plus the colours on a very few feasts?  Should an encyclopedia include a blog that gives (or at least gave - have you perhaps corrected it?) wrong information about the colour for several days in the year?  Esoglou (talk) 13:49, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is a website that only gives seasonal liturgical colours worth including? 

message: Hello to all.
I am a Jew, and have been working slowly to upgrade the "Jewish Holiday" article.  I came here mainly to see how the lede section of this article was written as a possible analogue.  However, I happened to see this section, and wonder why the authors/editors here would have excluded the inclusion of a holiday on 1 Tishrei, which is a biblically-mandated date--the date we now refer to as "Rosh Hashanah," Jewish New Year.  It may be a separate question how one would want to characterize it, but the festival date existed during the Second Temple era--during Jesus's life, if you will--so should be included somehow.
On a separate, more technical, note:  Shavuot, strictly speaking, comes on the 50th day after the first day of Passover.  Normally that is 6 Sivan, and certainly under the current fixed Jewish calendar it is always 6 Sivan.  But when the Sanhedrin was still sitting on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem--and for a while after that, too--months were proclaimed by the Sanhedrin, and the calendar was not strictly fixed.  So to say that Shavuot was always 6 Sivan would not really be correct.
Be bold?  Sure, but I don't feel it is my place to edit this page directly.  So may I suggest the following to someone for that entry:
Shavuot (Pentecost) - fiftieth day following the first day of Passover (usually 6 Sivan)
StevenJ81 (talk) 21:32, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: No response, so I did the above.  StevenJ81 (talk) 17:44, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Biblical Calendars" Section 

message: There are a lot of religions that use a "liturgical year", should those not be included also? 68.13.160.163 (talk) 21:55, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: If someone knows reliably sourced information about other such "liturgical years", by all means add it, making sure that the term "liturgical year" is in fact used of each of them.  Esoglou (talk) 13:13, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Christian?

message: I've been scanning back and forth looking for differences, but it looks to me like the same "Liturgical year of the Catholic Church" info box is repeated six times. PurpleChez (talk) 16:13, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: That's correct, because of merges. A clean-would do. One should occurence should be enough. Chicbyaccident (talk) 16:16, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Liturgical year of the Catholic Church 

message: I see that the East Syriac Rite section has been claimed to be plagiarized (infringes on copyright) from this article: https://www.syromalabarliturgy.org/assets/assettt/panchangam%20English%202021%20(1).pdf
I have done the work to check whether or not there was any plagiarism or copyright infringement involved, and I do not believe there was.
Firstly, copyright does not apply to dates, names of things, ideas, data, facts, concepts, principles, discoveries, individual words, short phrases, or slogans.
So, the only thing that needs to be checked is if the sentences have been plagiarized themselves. This can very easily be done by comparing the text of the two things
in question. I have done so for this East Syriac Rite section, and the results are below, for each subsection:
* Annunciation - 9% matched with the pdf given above
* Epiphany - 2% matched - only the phrase "Holy Trinity is revealed"
* Resurection - 2% matched - only the phrase "resurrection of Christ"
* Apostles - 1% matched - only the phrase "foundation of the"
* Qaita - 0% matched with the "Season of Kaitha" section of pdf, and 0% matched with introduction of pdf
* Eliyah - 2% matched - only the phrase "transfiguration of Jesus"
* Dedication of the church - 2% matched - only the phrase "weeks of the"
* The overview/introduction text not in a subsection - 0% matched with the introduction of the given pdf above
The only thing that is even remotely close to plagiarism is the annunciation section, which only has a 9% match for these 5 phrases:
* "this season also recalls"
* "creation, disobedience of"
* "promise of salvation offered by"
* "prophecies about the savior. during this season"
* "role of Mary in the history of the plan of"
I think these can easily be rewritten so they are no longer this close of a match. I do not think this warrants the whole section being hidden though.
I will link the documents that show the above results here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1GgpV3q7v5zqSOdlqjmPjWWwAjtUtvQxe?usp=sharing
After doing a report on both texts in full, it came back with under 1% match. This is shown in the "FullReport.pdf" file in the link above.
Krixano (talk) 10:53, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyright Issues with East Syriac Rite section 

message: The mention of the spelling "kalendar" does not warrant being in the lead - there's precisely one modern source, viz. some random parish in America. All the other attestations are at least 100 years old. It's clearly not in common use. Wereon (talk) 09:59, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: You're quite mistaken; it's current usage throughout the ECUSA as well as the old country: A Kalendar of Holy Days approved for use in the Diocese of London, 2020. Sparafucil (talk) 15:56, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: User:Sparafucil is correct. There are plenty of modern sources that use the term kalendar. An example of this is the 2021 Ordo Kalendar of the Episcopal Church. User:Wereon, you removed another citation from Merriam-Webster that records the definition. I would recommend that you kindly revert yourself. Thanks, AnupamTalk 19:38, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: There are certainly other sources that use the term "kalendar". Plus its notable prominence is documented in the dictionary  because words that are not used often do not make it there. I will be reverting back to that older version (since it was there before) with the new source provided as it sought to improve the article. No one should revert until consensus is reached here for removal. Looks like the other editors are favoring keep. I would say keep as well.Ramos1990 (talk) 23:16, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Kalendar"