Talk:Communist propaganda

message: Please keep in mind that this should be a general article, about common traits of Communist propaganda.  For particular states we have Propaganda in the Soviet Union Propaganda in the People's Republic of China, must have Propaganda in Cuba, etc. 
Please consider putting more and detailed content into the corresponding national articles, while keeping this one as a summary.
It was a good catch with extermination. It was indeed a common trait of communist propaganda. Please consider other common topics, such as "we are better", "they want to destroy us", etc. (Please keep in mind that many of these topics are common to any propaganda.) 00:57, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I basically agree with your comments, and you are very welcome to contribute here. This is a really big topic and perhaps too much for me to do. I will try to improve myself this article, but any help would be good.Biophys 03:07, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

text: O'K, I will check this and correct as needed.Biophys 22:51, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  This must be a general topic 

message: While the pint is valid, I deleted all "animal" part as original research. All these pigs and rabid dogs is a regular slander you may see anywhere and hrdly specific to "communist propaganda". In any case, you must provide refs to reptable sources which pay attention to this topic. `'Míkka>t 16:15, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have cited the source, including the number of page. The source (e.g. "Black book" but also other sources) claim that such slander was a typical feature of Communist propaganda in many countries during certain times. There is no any OR here at all. If you think I should cite more reliable sources and elaborate the subject of Communist propaganda representing enemies as sub-human species, this is not a problem. Do you suggest that?Biophys 17:56, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no doubts as to quotations. The issue is that at these times all Russian politicians used extremely foul language: bolsheviks, SRs, anarchists, white guardists, and everyone called for killing each other. I know extremely aggressive language of Lenin, Trotsky, Vyshinsky and others very well. My point is that you don't provide citation to the generalization: "To achieve this objective, the communist propaganda described "class enemies" as subhuman species or animals." Please provide a reference to a book that discusses dehumanization of targeted enemies as a standard tool of communist propaganda. BTW the "dehumanization" article is extremely poor and you may want to expand it with these examples (provided you find the reference I request here) `'Míkka>t 19:51, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

text: I checked this. Yest, sources tell that dehumanization of targeted enemies was tool of communist propaganda. Of course, that is only one of many propaganda tools.Biophys 06:17, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Propaganda of extermination" 

message: *'Communist propaganda is propaganda aimed to advance the ideology of communism.' is incorrect. Communist propaganda is mass communication  directed at strengthening the political influence of the communist party. Ideologies are advanced through theoretical debate, not propaganda.
*Already in the third sentence, the article strays away from its said subject. The section 'In societies with pervasive censorship, the propaganda was omnipresent and very efficient. It penetrated even social and natural sciences giving rise to various pseudo-scientific theories like Lysenkoism, whereas fields of real knowledge, as genetics, cybernetics, and comparative linguistics were condemned and forbidden as "bourgeois pseudoscience". With "truths repressed, falsehoods in every field were incessantly rubbed in in print, at endless meetings, in school, in mass demonstrations, on the radio"', is not only grossly pov (how about the formulations real knowledge, truths repressed?), it confuses communist propaganda (i.e. the propaganda activities of the communist party and its mass organisations) with a general description the political climate of Soviet society. Moreover, to say that communist propaganda gave rise Lysenkoism is completly faulty, and gives the impression as if the propaganda apparatus was a metaphysical force of its own.
*The next passage relates rather to censorship and repression in the Soviet Union, which is another topic.
*The last passage relates to the perceived political rewriting of historical texts, again not propaganda as such. Any attempt to say the book X is 'propaganda' is inherently pov.
--Soman (talk) 20:29, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Everything you tell here is your personal opinion and not supported by any references. All statements in the article are based on sources. If you think that some specific statement is unsourced, please tell exactly what it is. Are you asking for an exact page? If you think that text is unbalanced, please provide alternative views supported by sources.Biophys (talk) 20:50, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: For example, source [1] tells that Lysenkoism resulted from the Soviet/Communist propaganda, or perhaps it was a part of this propaganda (I have to check).Biophys (talk) 20:55, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Look. It would make (some limited) sense to state that Lysenkoism was a theme of Soviet propaganda, but I cannot see how it could have resulted from it. My understanding is that Lysenkoism emerged out of a political climate, where complete accordance (not sure this is the correct wording) between an orthodox understanding of Marxist philosophy and natural sciences was sought for purely political reasons. I don't think these reasons were results from propaganda, rather the propaganda would have reproduced it. --Soman (talk) 05:50, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Problems in article

message: The "Propaganda of extermination" section completely depends on The Black Book of Communism. I am trying to clarify it "According to The Black Book of Communism...", but my edit is reverted by User:Biophys. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 20:52, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it was also said in other books that I included as references. Do you want exact pages or what? If you do, please let me time to check this out.Biophys (talk) 20:55, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

text: An example of Communist propaganda in wikipedia . Someone wrote about Gulag prisoners:
"As other governments in the world would not tolerate common criminality or betrayal by its citizens, so has the government of USSR retaliated against these criminals by sentencing them to work in labor camps. Most of these criminals were given a chance to realize the error of their ways and to become productive citizens, but most have stubbornly refused. Thus, harsh camp conditions were implemented to deal with these individuals." Biophys (talk) 22:16, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Propaganda of extermination and [[The Black Book of Communism]] 

message: Check  for the classic (1950s?) Polish propaganda video about the evil Americans causing hunger in the socialist block by using stealth bombers to drop potato beetles on communist lands... LOL :) --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  06:12, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  To lighten the mood 

message: I mostly agree with edits by Mikklai, but it was hardly a good decision to arrange material here "by countries". The books by Conquest and "Black book"  are telling about the "Communism" (including Communist propaganda) in general and discuss Soviet Union only as a specific example. I think we should organize material by specific features (such as use of Marxist theory in propaganda, etc.) rather than by countries. The specific examples can be taken for the Soviet Union and other countries. Current placemeny of material fits better "Soviet propaganda" article, rather than this one.Biophys (talk) 16:25, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I found a large section on Polish wiki, propaganda article, about propaganda in communist Poland. Some of it is rather specific - for example, portrayal of Polish-Russian relations as eternal friendship; censorship of past Polish-Russian conflicts; replacing of the word Soviet (which had a negative connotations) with "radziecki", propaganda against cursed soldiers (pl wiki even has an article on the propaganda term ":pl:Zapluty karzeł reakcji"), propaganda against Polosh non-communist icons such as Piłsudski, "success propaganda" of the 1970s and the Gierek era (:pl:Propaganda sukcesu). I think we should discuss both propaganda specific features, common in all or most communist countries, as well as propaganda in specific countries (those would have their own subarticles, Polish communist propaganda is not much less notable than agitprop or Chinese communist propaganda, which have their own articles now).--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  17:48, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

text: O'K, let's try this approach and keep the both "Communist-specific" and "by country" sections.Biophys (talk) 21:20, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Soviet propaganda and communist propaganda 

message: After votig for the article to "keep" I felt obliged to expand it, so I added a little bit more structural elements to the article after some minimal google searching. (I am increasingly surprized that some people found this topic "nonexistent").
It now occurs to me that by updated rules of WP:DYK it qualifies for DYK nomination, since it was radically rewritten
[DYK candidate on April 6/7]. So I would like to ask you to keep expanding it while always supplying reputable references, to avoid unnecessary edit wars, at least until after DYK.  
I would also wanted to try and keep it to general discussion, in the way as it goes. I understand that it is tempting to flood this article with numerous examples of communist propaganda, which I am sure very easy to find. I would suggest you all to put these examples (when they are notable and representative) in to the corresponding articles about propaganda in particular countries. Instead, I would suggest to focus here on fleshing out the general structure and scope of this general-purpose article. 
Unfortunately, I am of little help in this topic. My insignificant addition was just something rather evident that was on the very surface. Thank you. Mukadderat (talk) 03:01, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  DYK candidate 

message: I think its best to talk about propaganda in general, and avoid exemplifications and listings of publications, etc., considered as propaganda, in order to avoid pov judgements. I myself might consider Animal Farm as a piece of propaganda, it was certainly at several occasions used for propagandistic purposes, and I could in a private discussion argue for this position. To include it in a list of 'capitalist propaganda' at wiki, would however, be a pov judgement. --Soman (talk) 14:49, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Delimitation 

message: Communist_propaganda#PRC section lists English titles: Daily News, Demokratis, Polish Review. I am not familiar with them. Were they English language publication, or are they English translations of Polish language news? The largest Polish communist newspaper, for the record, was Trybuna Ludu.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  17:27, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Certainly. That said, such a long list perhaps should be split off from the article? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  11:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I oppose listification, as previously stated. Rather the article should explain the concept of the relations between communist parties and its organ, seeing the communist press as a propaganda weapon. The first of the Twenty-one Conditions quite well describes this concept. --Soman (talk) 12:37, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  This needs to be clarified 

message: Perhaps this can be of use, either here or in the targeted merge articles? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  17:29, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it can be used here. As a side note, this "Communist propaganda" article is boring.Biophys (talk) 21:57, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Education section 

message: I suggest this new section because one is currently not available. I've searched a bit but no article even came close to any details relating to DDR propaganda. If someone would mind starting it, that would be much appreciated! Letter 7 00:19, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adding section "Propaganda in East Germany" 

message: How come we have article about communist propaganda, and not about imperialist propaganda, which is still extremely influential? Imperialist ideology changed from racism to nationalism, and White man burden and other similar works are examples that racists won Nobel prizes and supported eugenics program. There is not a word about that.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Foxond (talk • contribs) 06:28, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Imperialist propaganda 

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