Talk:Domestic violence/Archive 3

message: I removed this:
:Another way abusers gain power and control in a relationship is by leveraging social oppression based on the individual's identity. This can include racist, heterosexist, or xenophobic manipulation. For example, an abuser may threaten to publicly out her lesbian partner to her family if she leaves, or if a couple is composed of undocumented immigrants, the abuser may say convince his/her partner not to go to the police because they could be deported.
Any new contribution needs to cite reliable, verifiable sources. Please feel free to source this section and return it to the article. Thanks.--Andrew c 23:28, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Identity Abuse" 

message: The article contains a link to WomensLaw.org which includes http://www.womenslaw.org/safety.htm  Following is an edited version of that page intended to add some humour to a serious issue. 202.0.106.130 03:13, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WomansLaw.org 

message: I have a problem with the wording of this phrase: "Human civilisations and religions produce teachings conducive to living honourably and harmoniously." The way it's written, it implies that religious teachings ACTUALLY ARE CONDUCIVE to living honorably & harmoniously. Obviously, that's not true at all -- some Christian teachings can be primitive and divisive and have been used as justification for the oppression of women, gays, etc. It's been referenced several times in this page -- that according to the Bible, women are to be submissive and subservient to men. I believe the phrase should read, "Many human civilizations and religions have produced teachings exhorting people to live honorably and harmoniously". This acknowledges the fact that, at their core, religious should and do condemn abuse, while at the same time it does not claim that religions have been the beacons of spirituality and peace that they certainly have not been. -Daniel Villalobos 20:07, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well said. I agree. Go for it. Dkreisst 21:43, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As i understand the Bible and the Quran, women are to be submissive to men while men are subservient to woman ..... kind of reminds of of the old prayer "God please protect me from your followers."     202.0.106.130 22:38, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wording of Religion opening line 

message: I reverted the recent additions by anon. Those additions were "A significant amount of scholarly and academic research exists which indicates that males are victims of female-perpetrated domestic violence with equal frequency as female victimization, and sometimes greater frequency. See DVstats.com." and "However, there is a large amount of academic research that consistently indicates that men are victimized by physical violence just as often as women (see DVstats.com). These studies frequently rely on self-reports from both female and male batterers." How do we know that the amount is "significant"? The claim that there is gender equality in regards to domestic violence is disputed. While we are allowed to cite reliable sources that hold that POV, and reliable sources that dispute it, we cannot state these claims as facts because that would be taking sides against neutrality in a dispute. 
I find it problematic that basically the exact same thing is repeated twice with a link to a website. It seems like anon is using wikipedia as a platform to promote a website. Furthermore, a search engine does not support these claims. All new content must have citations. The content that was removed by anon was supported by the CDC factsheet. It is true that "Few incidents are reported to police, and data is limited." yet this information was removed.-Andrew c 01:08, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  DVStats.com and revert explanation 

message: As far as i know domestic violence is caused by trauma / ptsd. 
This could be trauma in childhood or adult trauma such as war or even the trauma of having one's home invaded by the armed forces (police) and being liberated from one's abusive relationship at gunpoint in the name of woman's rights.
Could someone please modify the causes section to include (and adequately reference) trauma / ptsd as a cause of domestic violence and wiki-link to the ptsd article. 210.87.18.77 07:46, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: DV can be caused by a past history of trauma...and it can be caused by many other factors; poor anger management skills, negative socilization, etc. etc. DPetersontalk 13:29, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: if you could point me to some authoritative references i will summarise these to the best of my ability under the causes section. also could typing in bold font cause domestic violence? 202.0.106.130 02:10, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Best source is the DSM-IV-R.  Otherwise, any good text will do...such as the DSM-IV casebooks or Bergin & Garfield's Handbook of Psychotherapy and Behavior Change. DPetersontalk 13:08, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  a letter in todays Daily Telegraph says irresponsible promotion of alcohol may have something to do with domestic violence as well 137.154.16.30 (AKA  202.0.106.130) 04:51, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Causes 

message: "Most" might seem obvious, but this statement needs a reference.  The use of the word "fail" is laden with judgement and seems to be a blame-word.  I don't believe this section adds any useful information, only speculation.  If the "reasons" for staying in an IPV relationship could be cited, maybe that would add value.  Gtamber 03:56, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "Leaving an abusive relationship" problems

message: There are a number of unreferenced statements in this article that should either recieve a relevant citation or be removed if no references can be provided. DPetersontalk 12:18, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Still no citations or references added.  I do think the unreferenced statements should now be removed and the POV section either edited or deleted. DPetersontalk 20:02, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree.  I will do that, unless there are objections...or proper reliable sources cited. RalphLendertalk 18:29, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Unreferenced statements

message: This seems to be clearly biased feminist propoganda. The author seems to suggest that the male-dominated media condones domestic violence, which is frankly ludicrous. The author also claims that sexual relations are usually shown as power struggles, which is not the case in most soaps/dramas (the most frequent showing of relationships on television) 
Maybe someone else can write a decent entry who is free from idealogical baggage (for example, this author clearly believing in the continual oppression of women in every part of society, a common feminist theme) Also, an entry that mentions the clearly negative portrayal domestic violence receives in the media (think little moe in Eastenders) would be appropriate. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.71.99.221 (talk) 21:14, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Domestic violence in popular culture 

message: I deleted a section that has been without a citation since March. DPetersontalk 23:01, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Deleted Section

message: God never intended for domestic violence to take place. Reason: Some people blame God for why they were in the relationship to begin with. The truth, the wake-up call, the eye-opener is that the first signs of abuse are always recognizable: Isolation, Jealousy, even verbal abuse.
~~Jshephard
===FAO Andrew===
How is what I said innaccurate, more men are assaulted by their wives and girlfriends statistics slate because more men live with women that men,--88.108.114.220 17:04, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have a source to back that up? Your logic is flawed because it assume that all things are equal (i.e. men and women assault at the same rate). However, Tjaden & Thoennes found: Information from the survey shows that violence against men is also predominantly male violence: Most (70.1 percent) men who were raped since age 18 were raped by a male, while 35.8 percent were raped by a female. Similarly, most (85.8 percent) men who were physically assaulted since age 18 were physically assaulted by a man, while only 14.2 percent were physically assaulted by a woman. Finally, nearly two-thirds (64.6 percent) of the men who were stalked since age 18 were stalked by a male, while 38.4 percent were stalked by a female (see exhibit 29). Hope this explains my changes, also, keep in mind that if we quote our sources, we are not allowed to edit the quoted areas because then we are changing the words of our source. Thanks.-Andrew c 15:35, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Reliable and verifiable sources are critical, especially in situations such as this where there is dispute. MarkWood 16:20, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Domestic Violence Gives a Sense of Power 

message: How is what I said innaccurate, more men are assaulted by their wives and girlfriends statistics slate because more men live with women that men,--88.108.114.220 17:04, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have a source to back that up? Your logic is flawed because it assume that all things are equal (i.e. men and women assault at the same rate). However, Tjaden & Thoennes found: Information from the survey shows that violence against men is also predominantly male violence: Most (70.1 percent) men who were raped since age 18 were raped by a male, while 35.8 percent were raped by a female. Similarly, most (85.8 percent) men who were physically assaulted since age 18 were physically assaulted by a man, while only 14.2 percent were physically assaulted by a woman. Finally, nearly two-thirds (64.6 percent) of the men who were stalked since age 18 were stalked by a male, while 38.4 percent were stalked by a female (see exhibit 29). Hope this explains my changes, also, keep in mind that if we quote our sources, we are not allowed to edit the quoted areas because then we are changing the words of our source. Thanks.-Andrew c 15:35, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Reliable and verifiable sources are critical, especially in situations such as this where there is dispute. MarkWood 16:20, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: FAO Andrew

message: I've added several internal and external references to the violence versus men sections.
They have been included as hypertext links for ease of use.  Feel free to add more.
Here's the revised version :
Violence against men
(Note : Internal and External references for this section are hypertext linked, feel free to expand on them)
As in all forms of domestic violence, violence against men can take a physical form, or can
take the form of psychological, economic or social domestic violence.  Many people ignore
or minimize the importance of non-physical violence, even though (1)it may be far more common, 
(2)it may induce more severe suffering, and (3) it can have longer lasting effects on the victims'
lives and well being.
Self-reinforcing sexist stereotypes and role expectations of men being strong, aggressive and in control,
and women being passive and defenseless victims perpetrates the cycle of domestic violence against
men, induces under-reporting and stigma, and minimizes proper law and enforcement in this area.
===Physical violence against men===
Physical violence against men is the term known for physical violence that is committed against men by the man's intimate partner.
Very little is known about the actual number of men who are in a domestic relationship in which they are abused or treated violently by their partners. Few incidents are reported to police, and data is limited. "Intimate Partner Violence: Fact Sheet", Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Retrieved 22 September, 2006. Dr. Richard J. Gelles contends that while "men's rights groups and some scholars" believe that "battered men are indeed a social problem worthy of attention" and that "there are as many male victims of violence as female", he states that such beliefs are "a significant distortion of well-grounded research data." http://thesafetyzone.org/everyone/gelles.html In addition, researchers Tjaden and Thoennes found that "men living with male intimate partners experience more intimate partner violence than do men who live with female intimate partners
(although this may represent differences in willingness to report being victimized, or differences in attitudes and awareness
about resources available to male victims of physical domestic violence between these two cohorts). Approximately 23 percent of the men who had lived with a man as a couple reported being raped, physically assaulted, and/or stalked by a male cohabitant, while 7.4 percent of the men who had married or lived with a woman as a couple reported such violence by a wife or female cohabitant." http://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles1/nij/181867.txt
The available data indicate that: 
:
*3.2 million men experience "minor" abuse (such as "pushing, grabbing, shoving, slapping, and hitting") per year.
*In the United States, approximately 800,000 men per year (3.2%) are raped or physically assaulted by their partner.
*At least 371,000 men are stalked annually.
*3% of nonfatal violence against men stems from domestic violence.
*In 2002, men comprised 24% of domestic violence homicide victims.
*Over 20 years, the instances of homicide from domestic violence against men decreased by approximately 67%.
*Approximately 22% of men have experienced physical, sexual, or psychological intimate partner violence during their life.
There are many reasons why there isn't more information about domestic abuse and physical violence against men.  A major reason is the reluctance of men to report incidents to the police, unless there are substantial injuries.  This is partially
due to stigma, and sexual stereotypes, and may also be due to unsupportive gender-biased attitudes by professionals and
researchers in the area of domestic violence.   Data indicate that although mutual violent behavior is quite common in intimate relationships, men are seriously harmed less frequently than women.
:Stated like someone whose never been a man in an abusive relationship with a woman.  I notice that one of the things not mentioned at any point in this article is that the "research groups" who dispute the male-victim abuse numbers tend to be pro-feminist, agenda-driven organizations who have something to lose if men suddenly turn into something other than a pack of abusers.  Funny how that worked out, what?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.84.19.246 (talk) 01:40, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Internal and External references added to violence versus men section feel free to add more 

message: Physical violence against men is the term known for physical violence that is committed against men by the man's intimate partner.
Very little is known about the actual number of men who are in a domestic relationship in which they are abused or treated violently by their partners. Few incidents are reported to police, and data is limited. "Intimate Partner Violence: Fact Sheet", Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Retrieved 22 September, 2006. Dr. Richard J. Gelles contends that while "men's rights groups and some scholars" believe that "battered men are indeed a social problem worthy of attention" and that "there are as many male victims of violence as female", he states that such beliefs are "a significant distortion of well-grounded research data." http://thesafetyzone.org/everyone/gelles.html In addition, researchers Tjaden and Thoennes found that "men living with male intimate partners experience more intimate partner violence than do men who live with female intimate partners
(although this may represent differences in willingness to report being victimized, or differences in attitudes and awareness
about resources available to male victims of physical domestic violence between these two cohorts). Approximately 23 percent of the men who had lived with a man as a couple reported being raped, physically assaulted, and/or stalked by a male cohabitant, while 7.4 percent of the men who had married or lived with a woman as a couple reported such violence by a wife or female cohabitant." http://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles1/nij/181867.txt
The available data indicate that: 
:
*3.2 million men experience "minor" abuse (such as "pushing, grabbing, shoving, slapping, and hitting") per year.
*In the United States, approximately 800,000 men per year (3.2%) are raped or physically assaulted by their partner.
*At least 371,000 men are stalked annually.
*3% of nonfatal violence against men stems from domestic violence.
*In 2002, men comprised 24% of domestic violence homicide victims.
*Over 20 years, the instances of homicide from domestic violence against men decreased by approximately 67%.
*Approximately 22% of men have experienced physical, sexual, or psychological intimate partner violence during their life.
There are many reasons why there isn't more information about domestic abuse and physical violence against men.  A major reason is the reluctance of men to report incidents to the police, unless there are substantial injuries.  This is partially
due to stigma, and sexual stereotypes, and may also be due to unsupportive gender-biased attitudes by professionals and
researchers in the area of domestic violence.   Data indicate that although mutual violent behavior is quite common in intimate relationships, men are seriously harmed less frequently than women.
:Stated like someone whose never been a man in an abusive relationship with a woman.  I notice that one of the things not mentioned at any point in this article is that the "research groups" who dispute the male-victim abuse numbers tend to be pro-feminist, agenda-driven organizations who have something to lose if men suddenly turn into something other than a pack of abusers.  Funny how that worked out, what?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.84.19.246 (talk) 01:40, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Physical violence against men

message: I undid the removal of the material on non-physical domestic violence against men.  It is
an important area that should not be silenced by individuals with a strong POV.
Non-physical violence is well recognized as an important sub-type of domestic violence.
Rather than delete or attempt to silence this material, expand on it, or present opposing
information.
:Hi. I was the person who removed it, because you failed to provide sources. I am not trying to silence anything, but given that these are your first and only edits to Wikipedia, it kind of seems like you have an axe to grind here. Wikipedia is not for promoting your own personal agenda.
:With that said, I'm not going to remove your edits again, because I'd like to hear other editors' views on this. But the sources you have now provided appear to be a blog and a "reader mail" section on CNN, neither of which are reliable in any sense of the word. No offense. 
:Also, when you start a new section on a Talk page, please add it to the end of the page, not the beginning. Thank you! --Ashenai 11:17, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Ashenai's initial removal, and feel the edit should be reverted again. Wikipedia has a number of guidelines on including information, and I feel these edits fail them all. Information has to not only be attributed and verifiable, the sources we use have to meet a specific standard as well. We also have a neutral point-of-view policy, that says the we need to present information neutrally, substantiate and attribute specific opinions, and not give undue weight to minority views. The fact of the matter is, domestic violence against men is not given the same amount of weight as domestic violence against women in the media, in the legal system, and in scholarly publications. Wikipedia is not the place to try and fix some injustice of society. We can only report what our sources say, giving due weight to majority and minority views. Unfortunately, the changes gives undue weight to domestic violence against men, they are unsourced or sourced from poor, unreliable sources, and they present original research. Also, unrelated, there appears to be a word wrap issue in your edits. Are you copy and pasting from a word processor or something similar? While the term "non-physical violence" may be an oxymoron, things like paternity fraud and forced custody are not violent by any definition of the term. This seems like a whole slew of men's rights issues thrown together in one place. Please consider editing the men's rights and fathers' rights articles instead. (actually, I just checked, and you copy and pasted the same thing here as you did there. This is redundant. There is no reason for any article to contain the exact same content as another article (unless they are a short summary of a more detailed article per our content forking/summary guidelines). -Andrew c 14:28, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have decided to revert the edits. The sections on "forced paternity", "paternity fraud" are simply not "domestic violence" by any definition of the term. These sections were full of emotive, editorializing, unencyclopedic language like "a particularly cruel form of domestic violence", "unfortunately", "the coercive power of the state is used to continually perpetrate the ongoing victimization", etc. Reading through the additions, I was more and more convinced that this was simply original research. The tone was not encyclopedic, but instead emotional and argumentative. The sections were not neutral. There were considerable sourcing problems.-Andrew c 14:40, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please do remember to sign in with the four "~".  I agree with Andrew c here.  The material should only be added if there are references or sources to support the statements.  See Wikipedia policy regarding the verifiability of material. RalphLendertalk 15:42, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Coming over from the Fathers' rights movement I would like to fourth the comments made above, in that the additions were not verifiable from reliable sources, and in addition were phrased in a POV fashion.  I believe that Andrew c's deletions of the material from both articles was appropriate. Slp1 16:59, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Attempt to minimize violence versus men and silence dissenting information 

message: Unfortunately, some editors of this page seem to have very unusual and inconsistent POVs regarding domestic violence.  For example, one editor remarks :
" the term "non-physical violence" may be an oxymoron ". Clearly this editor has not read much about the current definition of domestic violence.
I would recommend that (s)he start by reading the opening part of the article - to wit :
"Domestic violence (sometimes referred to as domestic abuse) occurs when a family member, partner or ex-partner attempts to physically or psychologically dominate or harm the other."
Non-physical violence against men like Paternity Fraud, Forced Paternity and fraudulent allegations of domestic violence very clearly fall under this definition.
It would appear that the editors are attempting to enforce a form of political correctness or censorship on this page. Rather than allow for improvement on the section, they immediately remove it.  This is inappropriate.
Non-physical domestic violence is an important and widely recognized sub-type of domestic violence, and non-physical domestic violence against men is both common and harmful and needs to be included in any balanced discussion of the subject.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 202.134.255.135 (talk • contribs).
:First of all, please sign all talk page comments by typing four tildes (~~~~). Next, please do not edit by re-instating controversial content during a content dispute; it is considered edit warring. As you will note above, 4 different editors agreed with removing the content while none besides yourself supported including it. Please try to address our concerns and work towards a consensus version on talk that everyone can agree to before reverting back to a version that multiple editors felt was inappropriate for wikipedia. I understand that having your contribution removed can feel like a personal blow, but please don't look down. Wikipedia has specific guidelines on what content should be included, how things should be sourced, and how things should be written. We aren't trying to censor views, but instead write an encyclopedia article. This has nothing to do with political correctness. Do you have any verifiable, reliable source that claims "paternity fraud" is domestic violence? I did a google search of the top ten webpages that come up when you type "domestic violence", then I did sitewide searches of each of these ten sites for the phrase "paternity fraud", with no results. So then I search the terms together and found a company offering paternity DNA testing, a letter to the editor of a small paper from a men's right activist, a handful of unrelated articles that happened to have the terms in them, a user comment to a small paper article, an online editorial by a men's right activist. Wait a second, I just noticed that all 3 'hits' are by the same men's right activist "Harry Crouch". Weird. The point being, I have found no reliable sources that state these things you want to include are actually classified as "domestic violence" by either experts in the field or by the law. You have also not provided reliable sources to back up these claims, and your posts have considerable tone and neutrality issues. As demonstrated above, you do not have consensus supporting your changes, so please consider talking things out and figuring out a compromise that we can all agree upon before reverting back to the problematic edits. Thanks.-Andrew c 14:30, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Reinstating sections : neutrality of editors questioned on this issue 

message: Come on guys: this article is so far out of neutral or fair weighting it's pathetic. I look through the table of contents and there's not only no real mention there of violence towards women: there's a big section towards men (arguably based on statistics a much smaller and lower victim impact e.g. number of deaths of female from partner). There's also a chunk on feminist lies, but nothing on a section regarding violence towards women.. 
This needs to be rectified in a big way..
Some stats (again, not what this article is for directly, but given the current structure it's nowhere near correct weighting based on the real world). From how I read it (as a male) I feel like domestic shelters must be full of beaten husbands persecuted by their evil feminist wives.. Which I'm sorry to say doesn't match the statistics:
From: a UK source
National
    * 23% of all assaults recorded by the police are domestic abuse assaults (British Crime Survey 2000)
    * Many studies have found that 1 woman in 4, at some stage in her life, experiences domestic abuse (the most recent shows a figure of 45% - British Crime Survey 2004)
    * On average, 42% of female murder victims are killed by current or former partners (Criminal Statistics 2001) In the UK, an average of 2 women die per week due to domestic abuse (Home Office)
    * Police reports, of those who call for help, breakdown as follows:
          o 81% female victims attacked by male perpetrators
          o 8% male victims attacked by female perpetrators
          o 7% male victims attacked by male perpetrators
          o 4% female victims attacked by female perpetrators
homicides for women versus men in Australia by cause, detailed statistics on domestic crime (79% of attackers male, 25% of victims male)
So why does this article appear to have been written like the 79 or 81% should have been male victim attacked by female perpetrators..?
Now I'm all for recognising that there are male victims, but not at the expense of the majority female victims as there are limits to which "recognition" becomes "gross distortion". Can we insert a section on women to bring this article back from the brink. People's thoughts on what needs to be in that section.NathanLee 23:01, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sections on everything except "violence towards women" 

message: I work for the America's Most Wanted Safety Center, a new branch of America's Most Wanted getting away from the capturing of criminals, and branching out to all aspects of safety. I feel a link to our post about what parents should do to protect their teens against dating a violent partner would be appropriate and mutually beneficial. The link is http://www.amw.com/safety/?p=83 please consider it. Jrosenfe 13:25, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adding a link under 'Articles' 

message: I'm not pleased with how the article is presently, with so many cleanup tags and problems.  The article is an important one, since like most Wikipedia articles, it returns highly in Google searches.  That being the case, I have intentions of getting this cleaned up and at least up to good article status, if not someday a featured article.  Not easy, and not going to be quick.  But, I have started gathering material in my sandbox, some of which can be worked into this article.  What's in my sandbox is largely biased (at least the statistics) towards U.S.-based sources, so that's something that needs to be rectified.  A more global perspective is needed, including talking about how domestic violence is viewed in different cultures. I'll also look through everything currently in the article, try to find sources and make sure everything fits together appropriately. --Aude (talk) 19:43, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup 

message: Would anyone object to converting references such as "Johnson (1995, 2006b)" into standard footnote citations?  It would help make the references consistent throughout the article. --Aude (talk) 20:09, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Reference formatting

message: I'm okay with merging this into this article. --Aude (talk) 20:25, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Domestic violence during pregnancy

message: I made a mistake in footnote 36. It's now spelled properly but still not clickable. Please, correct this for me. Please, help me encourage NPOV. I seem to have read contributions here, which cannot necessarily be concluded from their source pages, even some cases where the source refutes the conclusion. I also see many accusations of misandry and misogyny that may also be unsubstantiated. This troubles me. What I see clearly is both more reported incidences & more murders of domestic partners perpetuated by men on women. I would like to find research on 'domestic partner'-induced suicide and homosexual, intersexed, and other less globally publically common partnerships.
Thecurran 18:58, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed. You had "http:/" instead of "http://".-Andrew c [talk] 20:55, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Tafor the fix. Thecurran 22:00, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

text: Whoah! I'm not saying that women or men are more violent. I think violence against women is detestable, widespread, and even state-sponsorred in several parts of the world. This is a problem that needs to be tackled. I similarly despise violence against men. There is some research out there about w->m but being so poorly noted, I think a lot of it is published by sources that are clearly misogynistic or mysandristic. Even sources that have minimal bias are often distorted before being presented elsewhere. Please, also note that I said reported incidences... and that I believe archives of reported violence strongly back me up here. There seems to be a great lack of reporting for both m->w violence and w->m violence. I believe that w->m violence is probably more underreported. This means, like I said, I made no claim as to which type is more prevalent and even feel current research is so ambiguous, I should not definitely conclude either way. I do want to see more articles for both arguments as well as reports about sexual minorities as well as partner-induced emotional & physical harm and suicide, which might actually be murder or similar to murder. As it stands, on the specific count of reported m->w v. w->m murder, which I believe is pretty accurate and far less underrported, I still believe archives back me up that m->w murder is more prevalent and that women that were murdered were quite likely murdered by their former/ potential/ contemporary partners. You may be quite right &mdash I haven't read your source yet. From what I have seen directly from people involved in the specific case of nonreciprocally violent relationships, men are more often the victims. I have however read quite a few reports and seen many incidents to back up that most relationships with violence are reciprocal. That's why I think it's the weighting of the violence that is so important and I still believe that archives show that as far as serious physical violence goes, m->w is more reported.  Once again, the issue of gross underreporting rears its ugly head. In essence, I believe that w->m violence is possibly more prevalent but our insufficient reports bear that m->w yields more physically-caused  serious or critical health stati as well as deaths, that the jury is still out on emotionally caused damage, and we need to ensure as much as possible that all serious violence is reported &mdash physical or emotional. I hope I've cleared up my views and reasons and that what I claimed is true and verifiable. --Thecurran 06:13, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Newcomer Questions" 

message: Some "ideas" in that area are written by the Domestic Violence Industry, using weasal words.
Men suffer equally with women as far as DV is concerned, most authorities never hold statistics of guys that get beaten up by thier wives/partners, mainly because, Men don't matter anymore, it's all WOMEN.Trumpy 05:32, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for assuming good faith. If you have a problem with me, or any of my edits, you are welcome to contact me personally on my talk page, but please don't personally attack me here. Article talk pages are for discussing article content and improvements. Feel free to raise your concerns with the article and make proposals here.-Andrew c [talk] 13:56, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The Mens Violence area of Wikipedia is a white-wash

message: I think this article is too American centric in that it takes an unequivocal stance against domestic violence.  In most of the rest of the world, especially in Latin America, what is called "domestic violence" is not considered wrong at all.  It is only wrong when women dont know their place in society really.  I shall be starting a wiki project and editor's study group to make change to the article thank you. BradTimlin 14:58, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WorldWide view not! 

message: that pic has no place on this page.  it is possibly staged and even if it wasn't it is quite fucking disgusting!  BradTimlin (talk) 01:28, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  pic 

message: ===Allegations of feminist misrepresentation===
This has been in the article for 6+ months, or up to a year.  I really do not think this is encyclopedic and belongs in the article. If anyone has ideas on salvaging this, please say so. Otherwise, let's just leave this section out.  --Aude (talk) 17:02, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think this is an important issue, I agree there are signs that radical feminist groups are scaremongering for political reasons, but I also don´t know if it should be included in this section. Rubén Mar (talk) 15:24, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Sections removed

message: This has been in the article for 6+ months, or up to a year.  I really do not think this is encyclopedic and belongs in the article. If anyone has ideas on salvaging this, please say so. Otherwise, let's just leave this section out.  --Aude (talk) 17:02, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think this is an important issue, I agree there are signs that radical feminist groups are scaremongering for political reasons, but I also don´t know if it should be included in this section. Rubén Mar (talk) 15:24, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Allegations of feminist misrepresentation

message: This section also needs to be reworked or perhaps not needed at all.  This has been in the article for over a year, with tags.  Really, I would like this article to become a good article and even a featured article someday.  This section won't cut it, and the list is not needed.  Maybe something new on popular culture, or reworked, but section does not belong. If anyone has ideas, please say so. Otherwise, let's just leave this section out. --Aude (talk) 17:02, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Domestic violence in popular culture

message: This is from the "Treatment and support" section.  This material has been uncited for quite some time.  There may be some things worth salvaging here, though.  But, I think this should be taken out of the article for now, with that section re-done and anything here that can be salvaged, to be put back. --Aude (talk) 21:01, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Another section