Talk:Irma Grese/Archive 1

message: It is a bias Wiki-Travasty!--Nikbar Sini 04:18, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice to see the latest generations of Nazi's are still at it. Oh well, they are sooooo amusing though, poor things! --RobNS 23:37, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another Wikipedia Travesty 

message: She was 19 yrs old when she was captured. Anyone that has studied the Nuremberg trials see them as a complete farce. Her jobs were mail clerk, tending the commandant's garden, kitchen supervision, and taking roll call.
===Ghost Story===
I don't know where the ghost story regarding Krema 3 came from with the night watchman in 1948 - all the gas chambers and crematoria were destroyed by the guards (other than one blown up by prisoners) in 1945
It's probaly a hoax goast story, sice the sorce is a bit dodgy.--Nikki Fagin 01:03, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Irma Grese Was A Mail Clerk

message: I don't know where the ghost story regarding Krema 3 came from with the night watchman in 1948 - all the gas chambers and crematoria were destroyed by the guards (other than one blown up by prisoners) in 1945
It's probaly a hoax goast story, sice the sorce is a bit dodgy.--Nikki Fagin 01:03, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Ghost Story

message: I wonder why Irma Grese was such horrible person. Is it true that she was a victim of the war. I am not a symperthizer of Nazis. But I fell really sorry for this young lady and even more sorry for the all the jews killed in the war. If she had been born in a peace time she not only would had lived a normal life by becoming a lover, wife and a mother but also would shown great courage and bravery in her work. It is indeed sad she treated jewish prisoners with animilistic treatment. It is very sad that she choses children to be gassed. But my view is that she should have been spared from hanging as she was a minor and a teenager at the time of the crime occured. (Irshad Cassim - Sri Lanka).
 
It seems perfectly obvious that she was a depraved psychopath. Obviously, in peace time her behaviour would soon have landed her in jail and on the block. - Norvo, 00:08 UTC, 18 June 2006 
What we here? A Nazi apologist like so many others who have tried to gloss over the Nazi regime as a mere blip of mass insanity which gripped a nation and made an entire people discard their morals and values and conscience. I think your comments are quite disgusting Irshad Cassima and are a real insult to the memory of those who suffered at her hands. You have no evidence to prove that she would have led a normal life had there been no war. Chances are, anyone who was capable of the filthy and evil acts she committed must have had an latent wicked streak in her personality which no doubt she would have manifested in some other way no matter what her situation or environment. Too many Germans try and make excuses for the crimes of the than trial stuff, which appears to be witness statements only. Camp records, etc. I have so far not run across anything other than Nurember/witness stuff which reeks of gossip level info. There appear to be some documents on her by the rare but occasional number that slips in - number of days on a certai detail ( where does this come from?). Details of her pre-interrogation statement seem known and her post-interrogation statement is certainly well known.159.105.80.80 19:39, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Irma Grese 

message: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/6142/irma.html
--Homer slips. 03:12, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: A source-

message: Portions of this article appear to be copied verbatim from [judicial-inc.biz/Irma_Grese_by_redirect.htm]. Also, the web page from which the text is taken appears very sympathetic to her and the Nazis in general. 66.30.14.1  09:14, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is indeed something to consider. That website seems to be either pro-Nazi, holocaust-denying, or both. JHMM13 (T | C)   00:14, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyright violations 

message: Framed by "...hysterical Jewesses that wanted blood"?  The whole section is neo-Nazi claptrap.
I'm sorting out the Neo-Nazis, dros, crap and cods-wolp tomorrow. I've also got a bundel of links I'm adding to!
--Homer slips. 03:32, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: War Crimes?

message: Even without knowing the true facts, anyone can see that the last paragraph on the subject of Irma Grese is Nazi Propaganda. Get rid of it!
Edited as of 10/8/06 into more or less the same state it was in previously - which, oddly, did include the bit about the ghost.
DG, Leeds
===Removed bits===
I removed today the following bit from the "Execution" section: 
"to be hanged by Ronald Cook, assisted by Regimental Sergeant-Major O'Neill."
Reason: The name "Richard Cook" was not supported by sources. The name O'Neill stems from Pierrepoint's autobiography, but there is no evidence that already the verdict contained the names of executioner and assistant, which the article'S wording seemed to imply.
Second bit removed:
"One of the hangmen, Ronald Cook, refused to hang Griese. Major Jerome Burdik ordered him to and that night he went home and shot himself. Afterwards two American military policemen Sgt O'Hare and Cpl Rick Smith also were court marshaled for refusing to walk Irma to the gallows and a civilian hangman had to be flown in from Britain for the task."
It is correct that the "civilian hangman" Pierrepoint was flown in, but everything else is unsupported by sources and seems to be taken from ://militaryhistory.suite101.com/article.cfm/irma_grese_beast_of_auschwitz which, in turn, does not give sources either. Apart from this, the claim that American military policemen had been involved in any way is incredible since Belsen as well as Hameln were in the British Occupation Zone where U.S. soldiers had no function whatsoever. Details as dotty as that destroy the credibility of everything else as well.
The weblink quoted above was removed from the "External links" section as well since it was inserted to support the sentence that "Three different hangmen refused to hang Irma Grese", a claim for which there is no support in the website quoted, and which seems to serve no purpose except portraying Grese as a victim so innocent that it was evident even to the executioners...
I find it typical and disturbing that changes of this type are regularly made by people who go by an IP address rather than using an account. It sheds some light on their courage - or lack of same. --Kauko56 18:17, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Delete Last Paragraph 

message: I removed today the following bit from the "Execution" section: 
"to be hanged by Ronald Cook, assisted by Regimental Sergeant-Major O'Neill."
Reason: The name "Richard Cook" was not supported by sources. The name O'Neill stems from Pierrepoint's autobiography, but there is no evidence that already the verdict contained the names of executioner and assistant, which the article'S wording seemed to imply.
Second bit removed:
"One of the hangmen, Ronald Cook, refused to hang Griese. Major Jerome Burdik ordered him to and that night he went home and shot himself. Afterwards two American military policemen Sgt O'Hare and Cpl Rick Smith also were court marshaled for refusing to walk Irma to the gallows and a civilian hangman had to be flown in from Britain for the task."
It is correct that the "civilian hangman" Pierrepoint was flown in, but everything else is unsupported by sources and seems to be taken from ://militaryhistory.suite101.com/article.cfm/irma_grese_beast_of_auschwitz which, in turn, does not give sources either. Apart from this, the claim that American military policemen had been involved in any way is incredible since Belsen as well as Hameln were in the British Occupation Zone where U.S. soldiers had no function whatsoever. Details as dotty as that destroy the credibility of everything else as well.
The weblink quoted above was removed from the "External links" section as well since it was inserted to support the sentence that "Three different hangmen refused to hang Irma Grese", a claim for which there is no support in the website quoted, and which seems to serve no purpose except portraying Grese as a victim so innocent that it was evident even to the executioners...
I find it typical and disturbing that changes of this type are regularly made by people who go by an IP address rather than using an account. It sheds some light on their courage - or lack of same. --Kauko56 18:17, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed bits

message: She was 19 yrs old when she was captured. Anyone that has studied the Nuremberg trials see them as a complete farce. Her jobs were mail clerk, tending the commandant's garden, kitchen supervision, and taking roll call. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.12.194.210 (talk) 01:16, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Irma Grese Was A Mail Clerk 

message: - -
 - 
--Strento 01:51, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Shaved heads.

message: Added a picture (public domain mugshot), my non-NPOV opinion is that shes no beauty by modern standards. Deleted the last of the unsourced "beautiful beast" items that just cannot be verified outside of unreliable gossipy websites. If you can find more respectable sources/testimonies about her deviant behavior in camps, your welcome to put it back in (with ref cites). Removed the haunting stuff which is unencyclopedic hearsay. If you have a decent article (not gossip mags) that specifically addresses the fact that her ghost haunts Auschwitz - you can put it back in (again citing sources). Removed the lamp shade statement, I know its been mentioned in a lot of other sites (and some of them respectable) but its an urban myth   that seems to have mixed up Irma Grese with Ilse Koch. Nazi Horrors need no embellishments. Article still needs a lot of work, specifically in citing sources.  --Eqdoktor 13:35, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The picture... oh wow. Irma Grese, what a pretty Aryan man! --HanzoHattori 10:54, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Removed "Irma's Defense" section, the only source of her quotes are from hate websites. There's no way, no how I will direct traffic to those places to cite them. Refer to Wikipedia policies on external links. --Eqdoktor 17:01, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

text: The fact is, this cannot and has not been verified. It's certainly possible, but with everything the Nazi's did leaving this out isn't going to whitewash anything. However, I personally think this should be mentioned as a possibility. The rumor/myth has been around long enough that it should be mentioned in the context that it is in fact a rumor/myth. AniMate 07:06, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some clean up