Talk:Agrippina the Younger

message: ::: A Winner of the August 2004 West Dakota Prize
This entry has won the West Dakota Prize for successfully employing the expression "legend states" in a complete sentence.
A Winner of the March 2005 West Dakota Prize
This entry is one of only seventeen that have won the March 2005 West Dakota Prize for successfully employing the expression "legend states" in a complete sentence. --Wetman 08:22, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Too bad the sentence is no longer in the article.QueenofRods (talk) 04:24, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Prize

message: She was a terrible woman, but she was so for a reason like many other women in that period of time. I have to say however that I'm impressed with her will to live, how many times Nero had to try and kill her, and she was a survivor? Quite impressive if you think of it.--Camblunt100 09:21, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. As nasty as she supposedly was, she was quite a woman and very interesting. --Sophie-Lou 11:25, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: First Comments

message: So what is the source of the legend about Agrippinilla's death? It doesn't appear in this form in Suetonius or Tacitus. Gdr 13:29, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Legend states... 

message: Wasn't Messalina Claudius's third wife? I thought I would check before I changed it, but Im pretty sure Urgulania and Sejanus's relative (forget the name) count. --24.61.187.109 21:41, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Messalina was his third wife. Agrippina was his fourth. --Sophie-Lou 11:22, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number of wives 

message: *Dante puts her in hell for killing Claudius (Inferno XXXII) 
:This is not supported by the text on Wikisource (trans. Longfellow) nor in any other translation I've read (I only speak English but I've perused the current Italian text from time to time). Can someone give the canto, line number and (if applicable) translator to support this? Ellsworth 22:50, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Medieval 

message: From the article Quinquatria
At the Quinquatria in 59, Nero invited his mother, Agrippina the Younger, to his villa near Baiae, in an attempt to assassinate her. His old tutor, Anicetus, whom he had raised to be captain of the fleet of Misenum, had undertaken to construct a vessel which could be sunk, without exciting suspicion. Agrippina landed at Bauli, between Baiae and Cape Misenum, and completed her journey in a litter. After the banquet, when night had fallen, she was induced to return to Bauli in the vessel which had been prepared for her destruction. But the mechanism did not work as planned, and Agrippina succeeded in swimming to shore, from which she proceeded to her villa on the Lucrine lake. Nero soon after succeeded in his goal, however, with further help from Anicetus.[5]
If this is true, why not copy it here, with additions to how Nero finally killed her ?
Chris CII
Dear Chris, Tacitus' story is very complex. Her death is not clear. Probably her loyal defenders put her on safe (I think in Germany, where she founded the city of Cologne, whom real name is Colonia Agrippinensis).
--
Hmm. Tacitus' story is pretty straightforward and leaves no room for magical escapes to Germany. But leaving that aside and turning to the main text: Where do "four attempts" come from? After the collapsing boat trick didn't work, Nero sent soldiers right away (Tac. Ann. 14.1-9). This could count as two separate attempts (one of which successful), but... ?
--Frippo 01:50, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Her demise 

message: This article is not at all neutral and needs serious editing. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.174.111.127 (talk) 18:22, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality 

message: Agrippina did not help found the colonia at modern-day Cologne until the year 50, when she was already the wife of Claudius -- not in her "early life." I'm not sure where this stuff about helping Rome's brave boys comes from. 
She certainly as a member of the Julio-Claudian family and most especially as the daughter of Germanicus had great popularity among the army, however. It's just not linked to helping veterans in her youth. --Frippo 01:41, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cologne 

message: I've read this a couple of times, but it still doesn't make sense.  From the "Return from exhile" section: When Agrippina returned from exile, Messalina realised that Agrippina’s son was a threat to her son’s position, Messalina had sent assassins to strangle Lucius during his siesta. The assassins left in terror, when the snake suddenly darted from beneath Nero’s pillow; but was a slaughed snake-skin in his bed; near his pillow.  "Slaughed"?  Should that be "slaughtered"?  Or something else completely?  Why is "pillow" repeated?  Can anyone re-write this so it makes more sense?  -CaptainJae 20:31, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It reads much better now - Thanks to whoever tackled it! -CaptainJae (talk) 04:11, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sentence sense? 

message: There are a lot of facts in this article and yet there is very little source material quoted to back up these facts. Could someone who knows their stuff please add at least some links to quotes from classical authors to prove some of the facts.
It's very easy to just say stuff about Agrippina the Younger but you need to be able to prove it.
:: I am unaware of who penned the above note, but I propose, after 7 days, to go through the article removing items of unsourced material.  If they are sourced, they may be reinstated of course, but I believe I will be following WIki-policy in "cleansing" unsourced materials. -- SockpuppetSamuelson (talk)  —Preceding undated comment was added at 13:46, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  SOURCES!!! 

message: Looking at the aureus photo...considering its photographic merit...it occurred to me to check the copyright . The justification includes:
"Coin from CNG coins, through Wildwinds.
Credit the source as "CNG coins (http://www.cngcoins.com)".
which seems to imply, reasonably enough, that CNG Coins wishes to be recognized as the source of the photo. That sourcing, however, does not happen in the three Wiki article pages this photo is used. Further (correct me here where I go wrong), adding the credit CNG Coins stipulates would be: a) An inadmissible advertising plug, and b) Irrelevant to satisfying Wiki policy, because the image has not been released into the public domain.
Does anyone have a keen insight into the Wiki policy on this? Piano non troppo (talk) 03:01, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Image copyright violation...maybe...

message: What is the origin of the extraordinary piece of information that Caligula forced Agrippina and Livilla to dive for sponges to make a living while they were in exile? This is simply ridiculous. According to Barrett’s biography of Agrippina, there were at least two villas on the island, one of them apparently quite luxurious (p. 69). Barrett says that Agrippina would have been relatively comfortable, and she would have enjoyed a large staff. He says: “Her main problem, shared by all imperial exiles, would have been boredom.” He does mention some strange kind of shellfish that flourished in the waters of the area, but there’s certainly no suggestion that Agrippina had to dive for it! As for the suggestion that she learnt to swim well at this time, it appears that Agrippina was a good swimmer, as she was able to swim to safety after the shipwreck which nearly killed her, but the comment that she may have learnt to swim while in exile is pure speculation. Anna Lowenstein
62.211.196.54 (talk) 16:05, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reign of Caligula 

message: Agrippina's names are listed at the beginning of the article, including the form "Agrippinilla". I have already removed this once, but someone has put it back. As far as I know, Agrippina is never referred to as Agrippinilla in any historical source, but only in Robert Grave's novel "I, Claudius". I see no reason to include this name in an article about the historical Agrippina. I have removed it a second time, and if anyone wants to put it back, would they please give the reference, if one exists, or else put it under the heading "In later literature". Anna Lowenstein  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.50.54.67 (talk) 12:00, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Agrippina's name 

message: "All surviving stories of Agrippina's death contradict themselves and each other, and are generally fantastical." While this is mostly true it is not 100% true. All of the stories feature the boat that was designed to sink. As fantastical as this is, it still a consistency that should be acknowledged. 96.233.134.156 (talk) 01:47, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Consistency of the stories about her assassination 

message: I added the citation needed tag to the claims that the subject penned a memoir. A cursory search simply finds either modern works or other claims, without any reference to a primary source. Does anyone know of any appropriate sources to this work, or credible evidence of it having existed at some point? Gravy2272 (talk) 07:31, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: It's well-known that it existed and and its loss is much regretted. Imagine if our knowledge wasn't dominated by Tacitus's combination of detestation of the Julio-Claudians, misogyny and aggression towards anyone that offends against his narrow proprieties. Ah well. I've added a couple of refs, and you might find these mentions reassuring too. NebY (talk) 23:36, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, excellent! Thanks for finding those. Should the article also make mention that it's considered a lost work? I think it's an important distinction to make so the casual reader doesn't infer that the work itself is known in any meaningful detail or contributed to the information in the article. Gravy2272 (talk) 00:50, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Good idea - done. Of course, it may have contributed indirectly, if Tacitus et al made use of it (Tacitus very rarely mentions sources). The sentence about her memoir is in this article's narrative for about 47–48, and I'm not sure that's the best place. I'll keep an eye open for any indications, and maybe someone else will know. NebY (talk) 19:13, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added the Tacitus ref, corrected a misunderstanding (possibly a mistranslation of Tacitus) and moved it into Legacy rather than leave it situated at 47–48 without any clear reason. NebY (talk) 18:25, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citation for claims of writing a memoir