Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dragon Ball/Archive 5

message: I was thinking... what if we distinguished more between the two? It has been suggested before that we make a seperate article for the dub of the anime, but what if we just seperated the two formats? Most other articles that have a manga with anime adaptations seem to primarily focus on the manga. The big (huge) problem around here is deciding which English source is best, but the fact is we don't even distinguish between versions. A lot of these articles are a mishmash of dub, Japanese version, Viz translation, original manga, etc. Non-manga events and characters are not distinguished, manga-only events aren't even mentioned (quick examples- Dende's brother Cargo's death isn't even mentioned in the Namek saga article, let alone the manga and anime discrepency about his death; Trunks is a Super Saiyan in the future right from when we meet him in the manga, but his bio only reflects the TV special version of events). Maybe if we started by properly seperating and ordering our facts we could then worry about which adaptation each article should use on a case by case basis. It sounds a bit much, but Dragon Ball is a huge series and its history in English has been varied and confusing. Onikage725 19:14, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: <A very similar discussion has taken place at User talk:Snapper2#A few things. I strongly suggest that everyone who will join into this discussion read what transpired there first and then respond here.> Lord Sesshomaru
Just wanted to note that the anime is now being aired on Cartoon Network during Toonami. - A Link to the Past (talk) 01:28, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

text: That's not really what this topic is about, but yeah I noticed that too. That's why I corrected my statements to say barely playing or the like intead of not playing. Onikage725 05:19, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Manga vs Anime

message: I was just wondering if the Kamehameha should have it's own article. I know there was a Kamehameha article a while back, but I was just thinking about it and the Kamehameha has numerous real-life references. There's actually an international Kamehameha competition that happens every year, along with numerous attacks in other animes being inspired by or parodies of it. Should there be a Kamehameha article? --VorangorTheDemon 04:27, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Since no one has anwered me, I think I'm going to start one. --VorangorTheDemon 20:21, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You should find a good number of sources first. TTN 20:23, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Kamehameha article?

message: Back when everything had its own article, I didn't really have a problem with this. However, I have a big problem with the merging of characters like Onio and Kuriza to lists of characters in Dragon Ball. They aren't Dragon Ball characters at all. They are related to cross-over characters, but they don't exist in the Dragon Ball series (certain Japanese-only video game easter eggs aside). This is like listing Goku as a Dr. Slump character because Arale saved him once in a crossover. Hell I don't even think we have Arale on our earthling list, and she actually showed up in the series proper. Onikage725 10:35, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Neko Majin Characters

message: I was reading a lot of our articles and noticed that we are in serious need of improvements on some of them. I think it's time that we all refresh our memory by reading the guidelines on how to write good articles and go from there. Lately, I've been working non-stop on the Goku article, and I believe that it's coming along smoothly, however, more stuff and edits are needed. --VorangorTheDemon 10:26, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: How to improve our editing and the Dragon Ball articles

message: :I have requested a move/rename at this area and everyone is invited to participate in the discussion. Thank you. Lord Sesshomaru 03:36, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure your tone is appropriate. "Much slower than expected" is a very heavy indicator of expected outcome (in this case, approval to move), that you expected this to be done over the course of a few hours. It would seem that you have clearly come here with the sole intent to canvas for votes. If you were to do this properly, you would also have notified users involved in the other concerned pages of this move. --Oni Ookami AlfadorTalk|@ 13:47, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Let me sum this up: I did the same for other talk pages and last night my Internet connection failed while I was editing. I'll admit that at the time I was rushed & didn't think it was "that big" of a move since it didn't occur to me that other WikiProjects would/should be involved, though meant no :bad faith here. I did not even know of the existence of WP:JAPAN until after I let the members at WP:CHINA know of this and would've broaden the invitation had I not lost connection. Thanks for listening, Lord Sesshomaru 02:11, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move per [[WP:MOS-JP#Names]] & [[WP:GOOGLE]] 

message: I have posted this to ask for some help with some articles. While many of us have been so busy with all the main charecters many pages are suffering, being edited by few good users. A list of such articles follows:
* Oozaru
* Kuririn
* Cell (Dragon Ball)
* Pan (Dragon Ball)
* Dragon Ball (artifact)
* Earth (Dragon Ball)
I think we need to give these articles more attention or they will only to continue to get worse. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 23:06, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hm, I kinda think Pan should be merged to the list of Saiyans (I know she's major within GT, but her article is just a bloated plot summary and there really isn't anything else of relevance to add), and Oozaru maybe to the Saiyan article. What do you think? Onikage725 23:24, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think Oozaru deserves its own article, adding it to the Saiyan page would make the page too big. Pan just needs some better writing and some more images I think she merits an article. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 23:26, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Articles that need help 

message: I have made a drastic change to the Vegeta article. See the Vegeta Talk page for more details. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 22:09, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vegeta article 

message: Seeing as these will never be allowed to be merged, they should at least be of some quality. Plot summaries need to be cut completely and replaced with one to three paragraphs that give a general overview of their role. Personality, appearance, forms, techniques, and anything else should be combined into a overall general description that is free of any OR and cruft. After that, any important details can be placed in new or relevant sections. Please don't say that the information is important, as it is purely fan geared information that belongs on another wiki. TTN 22:41, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I may as well just throw this out here. Another idea, though it will never be allowed to take effect, would be to merge all but Goku onto a list of the main characters. This would be the only list, and it would encompass only the most important characters. Ones like single movie villains would redirect to their respective movies, minor one arc characters would redirect to cleaned up arc articles, and the most minor ones just receive no mention at all. TTN 22:54, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not a good idea, we have already merged most dragon ball charecters already and the merged content is usually not of the same quality as the page. We can't just keep removing more and more dragon ball pages, if we do there wont be anything left to edit. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 23:01, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The thing is that they certainly cannot be left in their current condition. The best case scenario is that real world information is found. That is unlikely. The next best thing is my solution up there, though that is only a temporary fix. The most realistic scenario is to completely overhaul the workings of Dragon Ball on this site. Current content could be transfered to another wiki, and the number of articles could be vastly decreased. That would be in the best interest of the site, but that would require everybody here to either fully accept it as the correct method, or we could "force" the content over to another wiki and just say 'Oh well." The first is impossible, and I would never want to try the second. So at this point, option two, trimming these way down, is the best. TTN 23:11, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As hard as this may seem we need to get rid of the 'Attacks' sections in all the articles, and Out of Universe information is needed ASAP, I recomend begining with 'Reaction' sections. - Caribbean~H.Q. 23:18, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Reaction sections? what would that entail? I suggest more Sections on the creation of the characters such as the one on Majin Buu's page. Also I think we need to not get rid of the attack sections but to rewrite them so it is in paragraph format. Also more images are needed so there is more than just a mountain of text. Also the real killer is the plot summaries, we need to shorten them and just transfer the information to the saga pages which are in great disrepair. In fact the saga pages are crappier than my baby cousins diapers at this point. the lists need more good editors editing them. Before we attack articles that are maybe C status we should focus on all of the stubs and start class articles we have. Also TTN define Cruft, you seem to avoid answering that question and when you do you define it very vaguely (no offense) DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 01:03, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: They would contain reception from critics and fans (back by reliable sources) and other stuff like media attention. This is unlikely for most of them. Development is fine, but you need actual sourced information. The stuff on Buu's article is just OR. The best way to clean these other than adding that information is described in my method up above. Doing it any other way really isn't going to solve anything. Cruft encompasses OR, game guide information in video games, fan based information that has no baring on the encyclopedic coverage of a topic, trivial lists, and other stuff like that. TTN 01:20, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

text: I would suggest a redone special attack list that is split up into different articles in alphabetical order like the naruto ninjutsu list so the list isn't that long. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 11:55, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: God, don't even get me started on the jutsu articles... Onikage725 14:26, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I ment to use the format not make it incredibly long like those articles. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 20:29, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

text: ? "I will not be adding anything to replace it, as I don't feel like it" Isn't that kind of Mass deletion kind of Extreme when it could take you say 5 minutes to make it into a paragraph? Also Yes such a mass deletion of information that is good and partaining to the subject is a reason to revert. Deleting all of the stuff you described would leave nothing at all. You seem to refer to everything related to these articles as Cruft. What then would be the ideal Anime/ Manga article? As you seem to disagree with everything in the articles you should probably know what you are trying to do with them. You can't just delete an article on the grounds that its "too crufty". DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 19:34, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have described the ideal character article sever times: a brief, concise description of the character and their role, and real world information to make it relevant. To have that, this stuff needs to be cut, and I really don't feel like rewriting over ten articles. Seeing as none of the participants of the task force will do it willingly, I'm going to have to force it. If you want to make a resolution to work on it for a few weeks, be my guest. But please actually try to get it done. TTN 20:15, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

text: The video game lists should probably be converted into prose...- Caribbean~H.Q. 20:42, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There really is nothing to be said about them. It would just be a repeated paragraph throughout the various articles with slight variations. If an appearance is important enough to mention, it will probably be better placed in another section. TTN 17:35, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I will than. and I'll get Heat P to help with the plot summaries, hes good with that. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 12:44, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

text: If you're willing to give it a week, I've been planning to hit a few of them soon. I don't do a lot of editing aside from spot-checking errors because I work a lot and have school. School's in swing, but I after tomorrow I'm on vacation from work for two weeks. I intend to try and trim some of the superfluous content. And if you, Heat, and Rocks are willing to as well maybe we can make some headway. I don't think massive deletion with nothing in its place is the answer. Going from one extreme to the other won't work. Onikage725 14:22, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well I've started heavly editing Vegeta and feel like the life has been sucked out of me. Check it out if you wish. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 22:47, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You're doing the complete opposite of what is necessary. The list needs to be removed, not expanded upon. At most, mentions would be fine in an reception or popular culture section. TTN 22:55, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm starting to trim the section down considerably. Give me about two minutes and I should be done. Please fix whatever needs to be fixed afterwords. // DecaimientoPoético 23:00, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: TTN What you have been insisting on is what exactally? If everything you said was carried out there would be no Dragon Ball articles, period. Everything would be merged into a small list that only said what the characters looked like and what saga's they appeared in. This is an encylopedia not a dictionary. Lists should be expanded opon and notable characters should have an article not two paragraphs on a list.  What is there is not cruft though that is what you seem to call anything anime or manga related. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 23:17, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Also the real problem with the Vegeta article was its long plot summary. The other things are not perfect, but are definitatally not worth deleting. We need to assume that the reader has no knowlage of the subject matter. An encylopedia is for teaching people about the subject not give them a bare bones article with little information. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 23:21, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

text: That can be added too but there needs to be in universe information as well. Without some inuniverse information the article's focus shifts to things that are not related to the article. The cross over stuff can be put up in the opening paragraph, Also are there any Official character polls? That might be able to be put in the article. TTN maybe you could hunt down some more out of Universe infomation for the article? DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 23:37, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As I said, concise in-universe information is needed, but the current information is bloated, trivial, OR, and probably ten other bad things. There is little to no real world information, so I'm hoping this will eventually lead to one nice, concise featured article (like Characters of Final Fantasy VIII). TTN 23:42, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Notice all of the characters in the article have main articles. The real problem is the plot summaries which are very bad like in the case of Piccolo and Vegeta. Sources are what are needed also. Notice there isn't a lot of out of universe information in the article you used in the example. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 23:48, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Only two characters have articles, and both have real world information to actually require an article (though one may possibly be merged). The article also has a good balance of real world information and in-universe information, and there is a good chunk if you actually look at it. The problem with the articles is that there is no out of universe information, and that the in-universe information is essentially junk. That requires a complete overhaul, and a wake up call from this fan mentality. TTN 23:54, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The fact that Majin Buu appears in Neko Majin Z is out of universe. Also I am sure that if we dig trough the Daizenshuus we can find some development of some other charecters. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 00:01, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Its possibly out of universe (I don't count it as such), but it doesn't define notability as it is neither independent or enough to substantiate an article. The Daizenshuus will have little to nothing. TTN 00:05, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Development is out of universe. Its the only out of universe stuff in the the Final Fantesy artical you discribed which is a featured article. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 00:34, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm saying that they cannot possibly provide anything that actually matters. Like most manga authors, AT doesn't provide his most inner thoughts in more than small spurts. Those spurts don't amount to much, so you're not going to find anything relevant. TTN 00:38, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So basically your saying that We shouldn't have any dragon ball articles because there isn't enough OUI to support it. I think the case of wikipedia: Break all rules can apply here. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 00:41, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Wikipedia is not a fansite. It is not here to provide the most minute details on you favorite character. As a tertiary source, it is here to provide a detailed analysis using a mix of primary and secondary sources, with secondary sources holding the utmost importance. Anything else belongs on a fansite. You guys really, really need to actually understand this. This is why I need to force this. TTN 00:53, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh my god! Why is everything on this page a fight? Jesus, I said I'd trim this  around the weekend or next week. No one needs to "force" anything. Considering that no one wants these to be stubbed and you've stated that you "don't feel like" replacing your mass deletes with anything appropriate, this is really just a massive edit war waiting to happen. Can we please avoid that and work together rather than against each other. And I realize what I say looks like a direct hit on TTN, but aside from addressing a couple of specific comments that is meant for all. I'm about at the end of my rope with all this arguing. We have a tag at top warning editors that we basically quarrel like brats. How laughable is this "project?" Seriously? Onikage725 01:17, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

text: First off sure a list like that would be useful but see WP:USEFUL. But this is an encylopedia, and what needs to be in there is notable stuff. sure the superbutoden series is notable, but what about vegeta is notable in there? The Budokai Tenkaichi games, they had the first playable occurance of Vegeta's Oozaru form and his super vegeta form. Budokai 3 was notable as it was the first occurance of Vegeta's super Saiyan 4 form. The plan to eradicate the saiyans was notable because it was a movie like video game and vegeta was the star. also see WP:LISTS there it specifically states that imbedded lists should either have prose (text acompanying the list item in complete sentences) or just be plain and simple paragraphs. There are very few times that a regular list is exceptible, such as when there is just to much content like List of Pokemon. If you look over what I've given you it should show you that the way the section is right now is how it should be. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 20:52, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The video games list will certainly affect the article in any GAC, since this information is already covered in the game's article it seems reduntdant on every character's page and it will either get the GA nomination on hold or would get it directly failed. - Caribbean~H.Q. 21:00, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Cleaning up the characters

message: OK, seeing as nobody is actually going to even try any time soon, I am just going to get started on cutting after I know that everybody has seen this message. I will be removing the plot, technique, transformation, and video game lists completely, and try to cut any OR as I see it. I will not be adding anything to replace it, as I don't feel like it. That is not an excuse to revert, though.
In the place of the plot sections, a very, very brief description of their role can be added. It should be three paragraphs at most for the larger characters, and one or two for the smaller characters. Techniques and transformations should be built into a general section that also encompasses their background or personality. Please don't try to argue or anything. If you like this information, I'm sure there are plenty of DB wikis ready to take it. TTN 17:30, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ? "I will not be adding anything to replace it, as I don't feel like it" Isn't that kind of Mass deletion kind of Extreme when it could take you say 5 minutes to make it into a paragraph? Also Yes such a mass deletion of information that is good and partaining to the subject is a reason to revert. Deleting all of the stuff you described would leave nothing at all. You seem to refer to everything related to these articles as Cruft. What then would be the ideal Anime/ Manga article? As you seem to disagree with everything in the articles you should probably know what you are trying to do with them. You can't just delete an article on the grounds that its "too crufty". DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 19:34, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have described the ideal character article sever times: a brief, concise description of the character and their role, and real world information to make it relevant. To have that, this stuff needs to be cut, and I really don't feel like rewriting over ten articles. Seeing as none of the participants of the task force will do it willingly, I'm going to have to force it. If you want to make a resolution to work on it for a few weeks, be my guest. But please actually try to get it done. TTN 20:15, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

text: The video game lists should probably be converted into prose...- Caribbean~H.Q. 20:42, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There really is nothing to be said about them. It would just be a repeated paragraph throughout the various articles with slight variations. If an appearance is important enough to mention, it will probably be better placed in another section. TTN 17:35, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I will than. and I'll get Heat P to help with the plot summaries, hes good with that. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 12:44, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

text: If you're willing to give it a week, I've been planning to hit a few of them soon. I don't do a lot of editing aside from spot-checking errors because I work a lot and have school. School's in swing, but I after tomorrow I'm on vacation from work for two weeks. I intend to try and trim some of the superfluous content. And if you, Heat, and Rocks are willing to as well maybe we can make some headway. I don't think massive deletion with nothing in its place is the answer. Going from one extreme to the other won't work. Onikage725 14:22, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well I've started heavly editing Vegeta and feel like the life has been sucked out of me. Check it out if you wish. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 22:47, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You're doing the complete opposite of what is necessary. The list needs to be removed, not expanded upon. At most, mentions would be fine in an reception or popular culture section. TTN 22:55, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm starting to trim the section down considerably. Give me about two minutes and I should be done. Please fix whatever needs to be fixed afterwords. // DecaimientoPoético 23:00, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: TTN What you have been insisting on is what exactally? If everything you said was carried out there would be no Dragon Ball articles, period. Everything would be merged into a small list that only said what the characters looked like and what saga's they appeared in. This is an encylopedia not a dictionary. Lists should be expanded opon and notable characters should have an article not two paragraphs on a list.  What is there is not cruft though that is what you seem to call anything anime or manga related. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 23:17, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Also the real problem with the Vegeta article was its long plot summary. The other things are not perfect, but are definitatally not worth deleting. We need to assume that the reader has no knowlage of the subject matter. An encylopedia is for teaching people about the subject not give them a bare bones article with little information. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 23:21, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

text: That can be added too but there needs to be in universe information as well. Without some inuniverse information the article's focus shifts to things that are not related to the article. The cross over stuff can be put up in the opening paragraph, Also are there any Official character polls? That might be able to be put in the article. TTN maybe you could hunt down some more out of Universe infomation for the article? DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 23:37, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As I said, concise in-universe information is needed, but the current information is bloated, trivial, OR, and probably ten other bad things. There is little to no real world information, so I'm hoping this will eventually lead to one nice, concise featured article (like Characters of Final Fantasy VIII). TTN 23:42, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Notice all of the characters in the article have main articles. The real problem is the plot summaries which are very bad like in the case of Piccolo and Vegeta. Sources are what are needed also. Notice there isn't a lot of out of universe information in the article you used in the example. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 23:48, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Only two characters have articles, and both have real world information to actually require an article (though one may possibly be merged). The article also has a good balance of real world information and in-universe information, and there is a good chunk if you actually look at it. The problem with the articles is that there is no out of universe information, and that the in-universe information is essentially junk. That requires a complete overhaul, and a wake up call from this fan mentality. TTN 23:54, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The fact that Majin Buu appears in Neko Majin Z is out of universe. Also I am sure that if we dig trough the Daizenshuus we can find some development of some other charecters. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 00:01, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Its possibly out of universe (I don't count it as such), but it doesn't define notability as it is neither independent or enough to substantiate an article. The Daizenshuus will have little to nothing. TTN 00:05, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Development is out of universe. Its the only out of universe stuff in the the Final Fantesy artical you discribed which is a featured article. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 00:34, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm saying that they cannot possibly provide anything that actually matters. Like most manga authors, AT doesn't provide his most inner thoughts in more than small spurts. Those spurts don't amount to much, so you're not going to find anything relevant. TTN 00:38, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So basically your saying that We shouldn't have any dragon ball articles because there isn't enough OUI to support it. I think the case of wikipedia: Break all rules can apply here. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 00:41, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Wikipedia is not a fansite. It is not here to provide the most minute details on you favorite character. As a tertiary source, it is here to provide a detailed analysis using a mix of primary and secondary sources, with secondary sources holding the utmost importance. Anything else belongs on a fansite. You guys really, really need to actually understand this. This is why I need to force this. TTN 00:53, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh my god! Why is everything on this page a fight? Jesus, I said I'd trim this  around the weekend or next week. No one needs to "force" anything. Considering that no one wants these to be stubbed and you've stated that you "don't feel like" replacing your mass deletes with anything appropriate, this is really just a massive edit war waiting to happen. Can we please avoid that and work together rather than against each other. And I realize what I say looks like a direct hit on TTN, but aside from addressing a couple of specific comments that is meant for all. I'm about at the end of my rope with all this arguing. We have a tag at top warning editors that we basically quarrel like brats. How laughable is this "project?" Seriously? Onikage725 01:17, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

text: First off sure a list like that would be useful but see WP:USEFUL. But this is an encylopedia, and what needs to be in there is notable stuff. sure the superbutoden series is notable, but what about vegeta is notable in there? The Budokai Tenkaichi games, they had the first playable occurance of Vegeta's Oozaru form and his super vegeta form. Budokai 3 was notable as it was the first occurance of Vegeta's super Saiyan 4 form. The plan to eradicate the saiyans was notable because it was a movie like video game and vegeta was the star. also see WP:LISTS there it specifically states that imbedded lists should either have prose (text acompanying the list item in complete sentences) or just be plain and simple paragraphs. There are very few times that a regular list is exceptible, such as when there is just to much content like List of Pokemon. If you look over what I've given you it should show you that the way the section is right now is how it should be. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 20:52, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The video games list will certainly affect the article in any GAC, since this information is already covered in the game's article it seems reduntdant on every character's page and it will either get the GA nomination on hold or would get it directly failed. - Caribbean~H.Q. 21:00, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Getting started

message: There has recentally been a discussion of what notablitity and its importance in our articles.
Basically what is notable when it comes to our subject matter? DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 23:42, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vegeta Article Disscussion 

message: Future Gohan, do we remove him from the List of Saiyans in Dragon Ball?  The link to Future Gohan only leads to a non-existant section of the Son Gohan article.  So, do we just remove that, or do we introduce something about Future Gohan back into the Son Gohan article, or do we put something about Future Gohan in the list, or what do we do?  Just kinda don't wanna leave a link to something that doesn't exist sitting around.  Lychosis T/C 23:51, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Either mention him in the Gohan article or give him a section on the list. Maybe both?--$UIT 00:21, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think it would be a major issue if we were to give him a section. The only issue is there isn't much information on him other then he trained Trunks and was the only original member of the Z fighters to survive the Androids. --VorangorTheDemon 00:28, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Seeing as how alternate versions of charecters are on their respecttive pages I think Future Gohan should have a section. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 00:30, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Small question... 

message: This article needs heavy wikifying and cleanup. Kariteh 21:54, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed the article has no sources, no pictures and has terrible grammer and spelling. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 00:34, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Pictures haven't been released because production hasn't started yet--$UIT 00:48, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good Point. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 00:51, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It would be better to merge the page with or redirect it to Dragon Ball Z (film). The latter is better written and has more reliable sources--$UIT 04:24, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Dragonball Z Live Action Movie]] 

message: Some of the charaters in this story wear uniforms called "gi." Should "gi" be wiki-linked to judogi or Karategi. By the way, are Goku and his friends practitioners of karate, judo, or something else?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jecowa (talk • contribs) 21:59, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Their fighting styles are not mentioned. Goku and the humans generally use some kind of generic martial art, while Vegeta uses no martial art at all, relying on brutal force instead (he uses headbutts, knees and elbows much more than the other characters). Kariteh 22:12, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks! It looks like keikogi would be the generic term. Jecowa 22:24, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Martial artists uniforms 

message: Plot summaries. In all of are articles the plot summaries are Outragiously long. For an Example, Look at Cell's article. The plot summary is extremely long and discribes things blow by blow energy blast by energy blast. Is there anyone who can reword these long plot summaries into something better written and shorter? Also many of our articles lack sufficent sources or lack sources period. This needs to be fixed and before we continue arguing about what Jinozen 18, Android 18, Artificial human 18, Cyborg 18 or what ever the heck you want to call her 18. This has gotten out of hand, both the articles and the disputes, before we start arguing for Weeks on what a certain article should be named, we should fix what is actually in the article as the actual 18 article is poorly maintained and in terrible shape, for proof see here. So I am asking for a least a one week cease fire on the arguing so we can do what we signed up for this wikiproject in the first place for: Impoving Dragon Ball articles. How about it? If we continue this the articles will continue to stink up wikipedia. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 00:24, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll get started on it. --VorangorTheDemon 00:46, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Large problem with all dragon Ball Articles 

message: In the event anyone actually cares for the page, I have nominated Cross Epoch for deletion. I'm sure a pointless edit war would have broken out had I simply issued a speedy delete, so I opened the situation for discussion here. Details on why it's been nominated can be see on the AfD page, as well as a notice reminding you all that AfDs are not majority votes; "I like it" and "I don't like it" votes will be ignored. At any rate, participate if you wish. Happy editing! // DecaimientoPoético 20:29, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cross Epoch|Cross Epoch]] up for deletion 

message: I've gone ahead and merged the Saiyajin Zetsumetsu Keikaku media articles into a series page, since all the articles were stubs and follow the same story anyway. The synopsis was moved from the OVA article to the series page, and all the video games (as well as the OVA itself) were listed under a History section with a brief description of each installment (these could use expansion, by the way). All there really is to add at this point would be reception for the games and possibly the OVA.
As for other Dragon Ball Z video game articles, I suggest we follow what we did with the Naruto and several Bleach games and create series articles for the smaller series (like what I've already done with the Super Gokuden and Goku RPG games). As for series with games that go into a lot more detail (i.e., the Budokai series), the articles can be kept if desired, but series pages for those as well would probably be best as well. More on this can be seen here.
As a final note, I've been debating over whether or not to merge the Dragon Ball Z Gaiden: Saiyajin Zetsumetsu Keikaku Original Soundtrack article into the series one. Not to say it couldn't survive on its own, I think it would be best to kill two birds (or in this case, five) with one stone and put all the Saiyajin media together. I thought I'd get opinions on this before I continued with the merger, however. // DecaimientoPoético 22:28, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I really think that the Legacy of Goku games and the Budokai games should be in one section. And when Tenkaichi 3 comes out we should merge that two. Now PLEASE can we review that saga comment I made in the above section. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 00:05, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Dragon Ball Z Gaiden: Saiyajin Zetsumetsu Keikaku (series)]] and other video game article mergers 

message: I was thinking seening as we have many arguements being repeated, why don't we just have a FAQ, like the Super Smash Bros Brawl article? I think that would save us all some time. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 12:19, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am personally in favour of the idea, and am actually considering writing an FAQ for Tenkaichi 3 and other future DBZ games (assuming more will be made). However, I'm curious to know under what circumstances must an article or form of media be under to be granted an FAQ in the first place. // DecaimientoPoético 19:00, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Its usually when people keep changing things that have already been set in stone. Or when people continually add stuff to the article that does not belong. And Poetic Decay, what do you think of my idea with the saga articles? DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 19:25, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I actually suggested something like this for the unfinished Dragon Ball portal, see this comment at UzEE's. I'd love it if you guys could support this. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 03:07, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  FAQ? 

message: In light of the extreme overhaul on the Vegeta article, does anyone think it is Great article level? What would it take for it to be a great article? DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 12:16, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's far from ready. Definitely needs more cleanup and refs-_$UIT 18:50, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I noticed how nice the refs made the article look, but it's still not even close to WP:GAN candidate. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 20:20, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not even close, it needs a more OOU perspective. I don't think that people know what this means, so let me give an example: "Toriyama introduced Vegeta in the series in chapter ___ of the manga." We need to look at Toriyama, and how he developed the character in the series, not look at the character and how he developes in the series. see the point? (eg "Vegeta was intended to be a one time villian, but Toriyama found Vegeta a popular character, so he decided to continue with him.", not "Vegeta did _____ and then ____ and ____." or "Vegeta looks like ____". Instead we would say "Toriyama designed Vegeta to contrast the main protagonist Goku, (then you would compare and contrast the characteristics of Goku and Vegeta)). --VorangorTheDemon 00:06, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem would be finding a source for what you just said. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 20:33, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vegeta: Good article? 

message: Found this link on Daizex.
http://www.chud.com/index.php?type=news&id=12002
Guh... make of it what you will. Onikage725 01:46, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: They're making a live-action movie?--60 Delta 05:33, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't know if it's confirmed or not. Just treat it as speculation until the official source (Which is Fox in this case) confirms it.75.152.207.66 03:39, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Live Action film