Talk:Mina (Italian singer)

message: :Image:Mina-lupo sigla.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Mina-lupo sigla.jpg

message: Mina's vocal range is famously 4.4 octaves (continuous, with no flaws); not 3 octaves, from A2 to D6 ('Donna, Donna, Donna' - 'Brava') which makes her one of the biggest voices on the planet, and I think the article should say more about her vocal ability, which has been praised by virtually everybody, from Barbara Strisand to Liza Minelli, and which is really impressive.
In fact, she is arguably the best singer (given all the parameters one uses to value voice, from range to dynamics, to eclecticity, to projection, gliding ability, length of breath etc) the world has ever seen. 'Donna, Donna, Donna' alone goes from A2 to F5, which is almost four octaves in an individual song; that's in the scores, check the scores for 'Brava'; it goes to D6 with the last 'brava!'. It's in writing.... Her version of 'Hey Jude' reaches a B 5 flat; her live version of 'Adesso' reaches an C6, again, live as 'Brava' on Rai Uno. 
Also, one should note that she can glide three octaves, and that she is perfectly accomplished in the whole female range, from contralto to full soprano; there are plenty of songs and live performances to show this. 
Could younplease update the article? She is a goddess in Italy, the biggest Italian singer ever.
[User:2.28.166.3 ]
Hello,
First of all, maybe you would care to introduce yourself? 
Apart from own research and the Italian wikipage, do you have a solid source?
--Jaan Pärn (talk) 19:58, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Voice 

message: This article is not neutral and is rather opinionated. With sentences such as "Acclaimed for her voice and enormous performing talent", it clearly doesn't deal with the subject in a neutral. Let the facts speak for themselves. Other examples of non-neutrality and peacock terms include:
*"popular albums".
*"a solid working class family". Why "solid"? Seems like an opinion to me.
*"transforming her from a rock'n'roll shrieker to a muse of cantautori". A different word to "muse" would be more netural.
*"Another masterpiece interpretation of a Dionne Warwick's hit". "masterpiece"?
*"Mina is a passionate cook and a poker player". "passionate" seems unnecessary here.
Also:
*The lead needs to be expanded per WP:LEAD. Two or three paras should be suitable for an article on this size
*In the interests of broadness, you should include a Musical style section, describing her musical output in a neutral, sourced manner.
*You should move Discography, Filmography and Bibliography to Works of Mina or similar.
*A lot of the prose needs work. I've spotted several spelling mistakes and awkward constructions, but it's worth fixing the rest of the article first before tackling the prose issue.
If you have any questions, feel free to contact me on my talk page. CloudNine (talk) 17:55, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA review 

message: Hello. I'm an italian Mina's fan. I don't know english very well and I can't use wikipedia very well ( infact I can't do anything with the exeption of rewriting page) I hadn't understand that I must not re-write the article about Mina. I'm sorry for this  misunderstanding. But why Can't I give my contribute to wikipedia? I have the links of the informations I inserted into Mina's page. I will know if I can rewrite the page. Thanks a lot for the possible answers!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Saretttttta (talk • contribs) 15:20, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello! You are welcome to contribute appropriately sourced information to Wikipedia. To avoid misunderstandings and reverts, you might want to post your suggested statements and their sources here on the talk page first to get consensus from other editors. --Jaan Pärn (talk) 15:30, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: To user [[User:Erikupoeg]]

message: Please stop vandalizing. As Wikipedia guidelines state, the purpose of an infobox is not merely showing, what a person looks like, but giving an overview on the topic. Mina's album Studio Uno 66 is among her greatest achievements, which is discussed in the lead and the following sections in detail. Cover art is in place in the info box next to the lead section. More than a quarter of the photos used in the infoboxes of good articles about artists are licensed as fair use. Usage of cover art in infoboxes of good articles about musical artists is a normal practice, including the Supremes, Crowded House and Shelly Manne. Thank you. User:Erikupoeg
:You seem to be as unfamiliar with Wikipedia's basic civility policy as you are with its non-free content policy. The infobox image in Crowded House (as well as the other band/member photos in that article) is free, the Supremes disbanded more than thirty years ago and Shelly Manne died in 1984. Mina however is very much alive, and for living people (and existing bands) the use of unfree images is not considered appropriate. (The cover of an album is considered appropriate in an article about that album, and screenshot from a film might be considered appropriate in an article about that film, but that is not an excuse to take such a cover or screenshot and use it anywhere where it comes handy. There are other unfree images in the article whose use is questionable, I only removed the most extreme one.) 
:See also Talk:Sylvie Vartan‎. 
:Regards, High on a tree (talk) 02:28, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Unfree image in infobox

message: I propose merging Altro into here, per WP:NALBUM.   Chzz  ►  07:41, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The discussion rather belongs to Talk:Altro. However, I do not see the purpose of the suggested merging. The Altro article contains nothing but an introduction statement and a track list. What would the merging to the Mina (singer) article mean? --Jaan Pärn (talk) 12:13, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge 

message: I worked on the first paragraph to clean up the grammar a bit and to suggest that the quotes  attributed to various celebreties be cited.Lacbolg (talk) 21:03, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations needed 

message: What does it mean, "a reminder of her previous teeny image"?  I am not sure "teeny" is the right word. --Diannaa TALK 20:52, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: "A reminder of her previous teeny image" means that in Japan, she kept to exploit her image of a teenager, while in Italy, she had already worked out a new one. An "evergreen" in continental Europe means a song which is played over and over again. --Jaan Pärn (talk) 11:13, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I tried to improve the statements. --Jaan Pärn (talk) 07:24, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok. In Canada we do not use "evergreen" in this way.  But I seem to recall it in articles about the Phillipines. It does not really have an equivalent in this country; perhaps we might call it a "hit". We use the word "teeny" to describe something very small, not something related to the teenage years. "Adolescent" might be the right word. I am back from our trip and will look the article over again in the next day or two. Diannaa TALK 21:00, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copy edits 

message: Mogol-Battisti's success encouraged Luigi Albertelli to copy Battisti's style in "Fiume azzurro", which earned a place in the Top 100 of annual record sales in Italy.
This sentence violates NPOV and is inaccurate.
It rapresents the personal opinion of the source, plus Enrico Riccardi was the composer, while Albertelli was the lyricist.
I tried to make a change with a neutral:
"Fiume azzurro", composed by Enrico Riccardi and Luigi Albertelli, earned a place in the Top 100 of annual record sales in Italy.
before being told that It is impolite to delete sourced information.
82.84.164.66 (talk) 22:28, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Did you read what the source says?  where it says "Dopo la mediocre "Uomo", offrono a Mina "Fiume azzurro" che, con i frequenti cambi di ritmo, gli stop e i dialoghi tra voce e orchestra, imita abbastanza sfacciatamente la produzione battistiana." Google translates this to say "After the mediocre "Man" offer to Mina "Blue River", by the frequent changes of pace, and stop the dialogue between voice and orchestra, quite shamelessly imitates the production battistiana." So the article refects accurately what is said in the source. --Diannaa (Talk) 00:41, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The fact that a team of composers copies the style of another is entirely verifiable by comparative methods in musicology. In this case, I think most people who know Battisti's handwriting, would agree "Fiume azzurro" is done in a similar way. --Jaan Pärn (talk) 12:35, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

text: Most of musicology is opinion. An encyclopedia should include justified expert opinions. Were we to omit expert opinions from this article, we would have to give axe to most of the material here, starting from "the agility of her soprano voice and her image as an emancipated woman" and ending with "Mina's passions include cooking and poker." And this would be a disaster for this article. So whatever your intentions are here, this is not going to happen. --Jaan Pärn (talk) 13:40, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: We are allowed to quote expert opinions when writing the article, as long as we have a reliable source, which we do.  --Diannaa (Talk) 23:05, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fiume Azzurro 

message: I'd like to help get a freely licensed image for this article.  I think it will not be difficult, but to do so, I think we will need the help of someone fluent in Italian and English.
Mina was most active during the 1960s and 1970s, and we are most interested in an image from that era.  People have made the argument that to get such an image is "impossible" - but I don't see any reason why that should be the case!  She's still active today, she has an active website, she writes a weekly newspaper column, and is still very much in the public eye.  It ought to be quite easy to get a donation of an image under a free license.  I am happy to help, if someone can help me find an Italian who is willing to assist.
What I propose is that I'll write a letter to her at La Stampa and/or through her website, in both English and Italian, asking for a donation.
If the answer comes back "no", then we can try to cast a wider net.  But I think it's always a shame if we fall too quickly into using a "fair use" image when there exists the chance to get one under a free license!--Jimbo Wales (talk) 00:37, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, thanks for that. I don't speak Italian and Italians don't tend to read English very well. A few years ago I contacted the minamazzini.com website with that request. They seemed happy to let Wikipedia use her images but I don't think they understood the concept of free license. So help from a native would be most appreciated. --Jaan Pärn (talk) 11:54, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

text: If you wanted to write a letter then I could probably get it translated (I'd have to check) by a friend who is an Italian linguist (drop me a message or an email etc. and I will try and figure something out) --Errant Tmorton166(Talk) 12:25, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you think this text would do?
Dear Staff of minamazzini.com,
We are writing on behalf of the Wikimedia Foundation. Wikipedia is currently lacking any images of Mina we can use in the articles about her. It is our policy to use only images that are licensed freely, i.e. free for anyone to copy, distribute and transmit the photos. The standard procedure for image owners is to release these under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 license. You can find the details in http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ . We kindly request for a donation in the form of releasing images of Mina under the license, that would support the critical commentary of her appearance and image in the Wikipedia article on Mina (http://www.en.wikipedia.org/Mina). The work would be attributed in the manner specified by you as the author or licensor (but not in any way that suggests that you endorse Wikimedia Foundation). Please do not hesitate to ask for further clarifications.
Jaan Pärn
Jimbo Wales
Wikimedia Foundation  
--Jaan Pärn (talk) 13:14, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

text: Cool! So long as there is no rush on this I will get the translation done next week when I see her :) --Errant Tmorton166(Talk) 08:36, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Helping to get a freely licensed image 

message: Rubikonchik, what are you on about? Show me where in Wikipedia:Manual of Style (captions) or any other policy is it required from the image caption to cite a source that refers to the specific picture?! This is the matter of the image description page, in this case :File:Mina1972.jpg, not the image caption. --Jaan Pärn (talk) 12:16, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Well a fact tag is a pretty stupid way to say that. --Jaan Pärn (talk) 12:26, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

text: The picture is used for the purposes of criticism and comment on the image of the artist. According to section 107 of the United States Copyright Act of 1976: "The fair use of a copyrighted work...for purposes such as criticism, comment,...scholarship...is not an infringement of copyright." As I have already specified in the file description, the person depicted in the image lives in reclusion which means she has made every possible effort not to be seen by the public. Therefore it is beyond human abilities to create a free image of her. --Jaan Pärn (talk) 12:42, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Citation in the caption

message: Music&Co is currently edit warring to include the sales figure published by la Repubblica. Claims like this should be based on certain counting methods, not just an unsubstiantiated news article. The standard method appears to be the one applied by the List of best-selling music artists. Now I suggest Music&Co removes this poorly sourced claim himself or this matter will go to WP:BLPN. Thanks. --Jaan Pärn (talk) 14:52, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: This is rubbish. An encyclopedia publishes only verifiable sales numbers. --Jaan Pärn (talk) 17:58, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Highly prestigious news services in the U.S. such as CNN for example, have a history of publishing inflated sales figures for U.S. based artists also, including Michael Jackson's 750 million. That doesn't mean Jackson has achieved that sales figure. 95% of the time, the news agencies publish sales figures given to them by artists' record companies. The news agencies rarely do the research on sales figures themselves. In the case of Mina, I'd avoid including the 150 million records, because Italian music market has never been among the biggest music markets, meaning it could never have generated 150 million records for one of their artists, regardless how high the sales were for Mina in the '60s, '70s (see my comment also at Talk:List of best-selling music artists).--Harout72 (talk) 15:32, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Sales number

message: At the beginning of the page it is stated:
"Anna Maria Quaini or Mina Anna Mazzini..."
this is wrong. As stated at the beginning of the italian wikipedia page (I'm italian):
"Mina, nome d'arte di Mina Anna Mazzini (Busto Arsizio, 25 marzo 1940), è una cantante e produttrice discografica italiana naturalizzata svizzera.
Dopo il matrimonio del 10 gennaio 2006 con Eugenio Quaini è diventata Mina Anna Quaini secondo la consuetudine svizzera. Erroneamente molte fonti riportano Anna Maria Mazzini come nome di nascita di Mina, che in realtà è Mina Anna Mazzini."
which means that the original name was Mina Anna Mazzini and not Anna Maria Mazzini, even if this is reported on many sources. After, when she got married, her name become Mina Anna Quaini (here's the error, english wikipedia reports Anna Maria Quaini). Please fix this error =)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.134.61.11 (talk) 16:00, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong name reported at the beginning of the article 

message: The song "Nessuno" was originally recorded in the ballad style by Italian female singer Wilma De Angelis at Sanremo Music Festival in 1959 --86.205.169.82 (talk) 12:52, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nessuno 

message: Mina's husband Eugenio Quaini was born in Cremona (Italy). He was childhood friend of Mina when the singer lived in Cremona.
"Sul finire degli anni settanta Mina si lega sentimentalmente al cardiochirurgo Eugenio Quaini, anch'egli cremonese, amico da sempre della cantante." --86.193.57.186 (talk) 15:57, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes Quaini is a fellow from Cremona. Well Mina is not technically from Cremona because she was born in Busto Arsizio, Varese, but everyone here calls her The Tigress of Cremona -- SERGIO aka the Black Cat 15:10, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mina's husband 

message: Jaan, Se stasera sono qui's title is incorrectly translated. Should I Stay Here Tonight suggests that the character is saying "I'm not there but should I be there...". Actually the character is explaining why they's there: Se stasera sono qui / è perché ti voglio bene / è perché tu hai bisogno di me / anche se non lo sai (If tonight I'm here / It's because I love you / It's because you need me / Even though you don't know...). Regards and congratulations for a nice article about our greatest female voice :-) -- SERGIO aka the Black Cat 15:08, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''Se stasera sono qui'' 

message: The article claims Louis Armstrong famously declared her to be “the greatest white singer in the world.” cited to Italian sources. None of the sources are contemporary and none of them specify the time or place when he allegedly made the claim. This gives no confidence for such a strong statement. Does anyone else think this smells fishy or is it just me? --Jaan Pärn (talk) 15:44, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: For the record, Made in Italy: Studies in Popular Music is an English-language academic book edited by Routledge, which is a respected academic publisher. The article almost enterely consists of Italian-language sources, which is not surprisingly at all considering Mina has received very little coverage in English sources, but this is not a reason to double check every sentence as potentially unreliable. The core issue is not if the sources are in English or in Italian, but if they are reliable or not. Besides Routledge, personally I have no issue in terms of reliability with Agenzia Nazionale Stampa Associata and Il Fatto Quotidiano, and additional RS are apparently easily available (eg. Famiglia Cristiana ). --Cavarrone  18:02, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: That is a rather formal test of reliability. According to WP:V, The best sources have a professional structure in place for checking or analyzing facts, legal issues, evidence, and arguments. The greater the degree of scrutiny given to these issues, the more reliable the source. Be especially careful when sourcing content related to living people or medicine. Concerning the fact of Mr. Armstrong's claim, the cited sources display exactly zero evidence. --Jaan Pärn (talk) 18:13, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  Are you arguing that sources such as Routledge or Agenzia Nazionale Stampa Associata have not "a professional structure in place for checking or analyzing facts, legal issues, evidence, and arguments" or aren't, as WP:V says shortly before, "published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy"? I respect such opinion, but I would say the opposite, i.e that they are generally well-known for their accuracy and fact-checking. The fact they do not "display the evidences" you are seeking does not mean that they are that sort of sources which allow hoaxes and do not check and verify the contents of their academic books/articles before publishing them, it only means they did not cosidered the Armstrong's quote as controversial as to require further insights. --Cavarrone  22:19, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes well we Wikipedia editors do. --Jaan Pärn (talk) 07:31, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

text: The issue is that for a historical claim like this a historical source should be cited. Biographies and newspaper articles published by even respectable houses can mirror each other and nowadays even Wikipedia. The alleged quote has been up in the Italian article on Mina without a reference for years. Now it has made its way to this page. All I am asking is for the interested party to verify the claim with the documented time and place of its uttering. And the currently cited sources do not do that. --Jaan Pärn (talk) 16:39, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: With respect, Jaan, that is an unreasonable standard, which very little of the information in Wikipedia biographies, even FAs, meets. Actually, I am more inclined to treat a scholarly source like that provided here as reliable, than I would a contemporary newspaper article. In any case, even if you have a personal preference for such sources, the guidelines on this matter are quite clear: we treat scholarly sources as being of higher quality than newspaper articles. The date and time of the quote in question is not needed: it amply meets WP:V. Vanamonde (talk) 17:38, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Nothing unreasonable about WP:REDFLAG. This is an extremely simple matter of whether something happened or it did not. Not just any scholarly source will suffice but one that shows at least minimum scrutiny on this particular fact. What you are advocating is only a formal approach to verification of facts which will not apply for an exceptional claim like this. --Jaan Pärn (talk) 20:19, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:   The Armstrong's quote dates well before Wikipedia's existence, eg. it is mentioned in this article from La Repubblica published in April 1992, an age when not just Wikipedia was not born, but Internet as a whole was basically unknown and unused in Italy. As I said before, sources such as ANSA or Routledge (or La Repubblica, too) are well-known for scrutinying and verifying their contents before publishing them, they do not use to mirror Wikipedia nor to publish hoaxes. Wikipedia is based on what reliable independent secondary sources say, the hard task of researching the "historical source" with the exact date and place would be a remarkable exercise of investigative journalism, but it is not our duty and it is also simply unnecessary for the simple scope of mentioning a multi-referenced (and, at least in Italy, quite famous) quote. Cavarrone  23:14, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Armstrong's favourite white singer?

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: User:Hullaballoo Wolfowitz has repeatedly tried to delete the "Se telefonando" fair-use sound file. Hulabaloo Wolfowitz, instead of the trivialities, maybe you would care to specify which 'purpose stated in its use rationale' is the 'file is not used for', especially compared to thousands of excerpts from nonfree recordings used to illustrate Wikipedia articles. For example,
 this []. Is this a crusade against all of these, or do you have something personal against this specific sound file? ---Jaan Pärn (talk) 17:11, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Deletion of the "Se telefonando" fair-use sound file

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018)