Talk:Legionellosis

message: If you're going to take the time to write or rewrite it, please use proper English.66.26.95.207 (talk) 00:06, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Grammatical errors are rampant in this article.

message: I read the entire article and it doesn't mention anywhere that the bacterium can be contracted from soil. The bacteria also lives in soil worldwide. If someone doesn't want to edit this I will, but I have better things to do. -- 19:27, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  I did add a small section regarding Legionella Longbeachae, that is contracted from inhaling dust from soil or compost [[[User:Hongkonger|Hongkonger]] 07:22, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I guess the quote of the origin of the Legionaire Disease is missquoted.It started with the French Legion in North Africa in the begining of the 20th century.Check your facts please.[user](Georges,24,Dec.2010.London,England)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.166.63.5 (talk) 08:40, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Contracting bacteria from soil

message: http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1549987.htm  France, 2004.  
21 Dead, 65 with disease. --Copeland.James.H 21:31, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Outbreaks

message: Malta requires that Fountains (espcially indoors) have weekly cleaning and disinfection.Malta Dept. of Information Page 30 of 36 --Copeland.James.H 19:10, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Fountains, Weekly clean and disinfect: Ponds, Spray Heads, all wetted surfaces

message: I just finished about 8 hours of work on this article. I started out making some piece-meal changes.  Then I decide to copy it into my Sandbox, re-work it completely and then install the re-worked version here. My changes included: copy editing, Wikifying the writing style, adding a few references, consolidating (i.e., merging) some of the sections), and re-arranging the order of some sections. In my opinion, the article is much more coherent now. It probably still needs some work (in particular, more source references). Also, I don't understand why the section entitled "Infections" is included ... I can't see what purpose it  serves. Could it be deleted?? - mbeychok 03:58, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Major re-write and re-organization 

message: Noigel, in your last edit,when you changed a link (at the bottom of the section on Philadelphia) to a reference you closed the reference with ,/ref> which is incorrect syntax.  It should have been </ref>. As a result of that incorrect syntax, all of the article beyond that point was deleted. You really must be more careful of what you do and you should use the "Preview" button to check the whole article before you submit an edit concerning References. I have fixed it now. - mbeychok 17:10, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Pzavon, the History page of Legionellosis clearly shows that Noigel made that error at 07:40, 7 July 2006.  Are we both on the same page? - mbeychok 02:44, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Noigel, please be more careful about your edits 

message: First it says that legionellosis is "also known as" Legionnaires' disease, then it says legionellosis has two forms, one of which is Legionnaires' disease. Not logical!--BillFlis 12:04, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Needs some clarification

message: James, this is an article about the disease Legionellosis and you are trying to turn it into a tedious, detailed maintenance manual on how to control Legionella in cooling towers. Everything you added is covered in even greater detail by the 11 external links prominently listed in the existing section "Gudelines for control of Legionella in cooling towers". Why clutter up this article with material covered in those referenced guidelines and maintenance manuals?
I am reverting your changes back to the last version of this article by 72.155.218.238.  PLEASE don't start a reversion war. - mbeychok 22:08, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey, mbeychok, get with the program. You need to ask Noigel's permission before you change anything on one of his pages. How rude of you to intrude! Didn't you smell his marking of his territory? Take a ball of chalk, or complain to your storm and strife. Go, Noigel! Noigel for benevolent dictator of all Wikipedia! (Not just the itty-bitty parts of legionella, legionellosis, and The Bellevue-Stratford Hotel.) All hail his private domain, his personal glory. And don't denigrate his personal pages, even if you don't know they're his, because it upsets him terribly. Fear his wrath!--BillFlis 03:32, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reverting changes by Copeland back to last version by 72.155.218.238 

message: Hi there, I hope you all don't mind, I added another case of Legionnaires' disease that has recently occured in Bath, England.  --207.174.142.110 16:00, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed that material.  One case does not make an "outbreak" and this part of the article has been a list of significant outbreaks in which large numbers of people were infected.  If we started listing all the single cases of infection the article would be nothing but a list of individual cases.  Pzavon 02:33, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New case in England 

message: Removed the current event tag from the Australia 2007 outbreak. No changes since March and it's now late May.Niels Olson 01:27, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Australia, 2007 

message: I tagged this article as having a vague intro. It's way too hard to understand. The name is also bad. It should be Legionnaires' disease with a section on Pontiac fever (see here) I will do all this at about 7:00 tommorrow if no one objects - Pheonix 21:02, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please don't move the article. The consensus for medicine-related articles has been to use the scientific or recognised medical name to avoid ambiguity - see the Manual of Style (medicine-related articles) guideline. -- MarcoTolo 21:52, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, but the intro needs a rewrite - Pheonix 19:42, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I tried to do it but it wasn't satisfactory as I don't know much about it - Pheonix 19:50, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I did not think the intro was vague at all, just a bit too wordy.  I've made several changes (mostly deleting words).  Some deletions were made because the terms were highly specific terms that were addressed more clearly in the Legionella article, to which the introduction includes links at appropriate places.  Pzavon 02:11, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intro 

message: this page needs to be tidied cleared Hongkonger (talk) 04:39, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: General: tidy this page

message: No such outbreak and no source or citation, if real where is CDC MMWR? Also quotes some nonsense about infection from a "radiator system" which is in fact impossible. needs to be deleted Hongkonger (talk) 04:40, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: New York 2007 outbreak ?

message: External links to patient support groups (especially online chat boards), blogs, and fundraising groups normally not accepted on Wikipedia.  Please read the external links policy and the specific rules for medical articles before adding more external links.  WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:41, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: External links

message: I thought that we generally put pages like this at the common name (Legionnaire's Disease) not the scientific name (Legionellosis) ?  Regards, Ben Aveling 00:11, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Common name or scientific name? 

message: as much as this is an encyclopedia it is not an index, I don't think it's resourceful to list every case of legionaires disease ever reported. Notable cases e.g. Philidelphia, Murcia fine, but when the local media reports two cases (here exaggerated to four in Dublin see http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0708/legionnaires.html) it is not very noteworthy and should be ommitted. Otherwise we are endager of biasing English language Wikipedia towards English speaking nations (well it is already biased but we must stop the rot). 
IF YOU ARE INTERESTING IN EDITING FOR THE SAKE OF HAVING EDITED ON WIKIPDIA MIGHT I SUGGEST YOU TIDY UP THE LIST BY CHECKING PAST CASES AND MAKING AN EDITORIAL DECISION ON THEIR WORTH AN EDITING OUT THOSE DEEMED TO BE UN  WORTHY, RATHER THAN POINTLESSLY MAKING MEANINGLESS ADDITIONS. 
Two people in Dublin contracted the disease, nobody died, there's over six billion of us left. It's not a big deal.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.128.2.68 (talk) 15:21, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Endless lists lead to wikipedian mess 

message: As the above commentator noted, legionellosis is not an uncommon disease - the CDC estimates that 8-18,000 cases occur annually in the US alone. Wikipedia is not a list of legionellosis outbreaks. I've removed the following reports from the main article:
*United Kingdom, 1985: A large outbreak of Legionnaires' disease was associated with Stafford District General Hospital. A total of 68 confirmed cases were treated in hospital and 22 of these patients died. A further 35 patients, 14 of whom were treated at home, were suspected cases of Legionnaires' disease. All these patients had visited the hospital during April 1985. The BBC reported these statistics as 101 infected with 28 deaths resulting.
::No source cited. Moderate size for an early outbreak; might be relevant if this was the "first UK outbreak".
*Norway, 2001: The first known case of the disease in Norway occurred in 2001 when 28 people were infected in the city of Stavanger, and seven died. At first the authorities were puzzled as several of the victims lived in other locations, including one in Germany and another in England. After a massive investigation a fountain in the small lake of Breiavatnet, in the city centre, was suspected as the source of the outbreak. But the fountain had not sprayed the bacteria into the air, the source was a cooling tower at the nearby SAS Radisson hotel. Only three of the infected had stayed at the hotel, but the exit vent of the cooling tower was at ground level next to a public bus stop, explaining the other victims.
::No citation. Small-ish outbreak. Relevance unclear.
*North Wales, PA, 2002: The Abramson Center, a nursing home outbreak where 11 people got ill and 2 died.  The facility was only 9 months old at the time of the outbreak.  Ten days prior to the outbreak there was a municipal water interruption which resulted in turbid water in the facility for several hours.
::Very small outbreak, no source cited.
*France, 2004: Researchers found that the Legionnaires' disease bacteria spread through the air up to 6 kilometers from a large contaminated cooling tower at a petrochemical plant in Pas-de-Calais in northern France. That outbreak killed 21 of the 86 people with laboratory-confirmed infection.Norox Pas-de-Calais
::Interesing airbone spread info, but the event itself does not appear particularly notable.
*New Zealand, 2005: An outbreak of Legionnaires' disease hit the New Zealand city of Christchurch in mid-2005, with 20 reported cases (three fatal) between late April and August. A cooling tower at the city's Ravensdown Fertiliser Plant was implicated in the outbreak. The outbreak led to plans by the city council to create a registry of all air-conditioning cooling towers within the city.Television New Zealand report
::Very small outbreak.
*Norway, 2005: In May 2005 there was a second—greater—outbreak in Norway, this time originating in the southeastern town of Fredrikstad. As of 8 June 2005, 52 patients were confirmed infected and ten people were dead. The dead were all from Fredrikstad or nearby cities, in age ranging from 68 to early 90's. The source of the outbreak unexpectedly came from an air scrubber (an industrial air purification facility; this particular one operated by Borregaard Industries in Sarpsborg). Such an installation has never before been reported as a source of Legionellosis anywhere in the world. Although the source was finally identified by DNA matching, it was also fairly well identified by analysing risk increases from people living near suspected sources.Borregaard Sarpsborg plant in Norway The first case was a truck driver that delivered sludge from a waste treatment plant at another facility to the one at Borregaard Industries.  Because of this the first facility inspected by the health authority was Borregaard Industires however the water was not tested because this type of facility had never been associated with an outbreak.
::Another small outbreak.
*Toronto, 2005: In October 2005 at least 21 people died People's Daily Online - Another dies of legionnaires' disease in Toronto and over 100 fell ill during an outbreak at the Seven Oaks Home for the Aged in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. Legionnaire's disease was originally ruled out as being the cause, but post-mortem examinations confirmed that victims had Legionella bacteria in their lungs. The outbreak is still being investigated, and researchers believe this particular outbreak may be related to a new strain of the bacteria.
::Modest outbreak, but, again, relevance beyond local area seems minimal....
*Australia, 2007: The outbreak is believed to have started during New Year's Eve celebrations at Circular Quay, on Sydney's harbour.  Thought to have started from a cooling tower (where 1,400 cfu/ml Legionella was found) from an adjacent office building, four cases were initially confirmed, but there were concerns due to the fact that Circular Quay is one of the most populated areas in Sydney on New Year's Eve.  As a result, there could have been potentially many more cases. On Saturday, January 20 the NSW Health Authority reported that three more cases had developed overnight, bringing the total reported cases to 7.
::Vague assertations without reliable sources. Small outbreak.
*New York, 2007: A Legionnaires' disease was confirmed in six residents of New York City nursing homes, all of whom were hospitalized and recovered. It was believed to have spread through the heating radiators located at the facilities.  In the upstate community of Rochester, New York, two cases have been confirmed at Rochester General Hospital in 2008.
::No sources. Bordenline "outbreak".
*Orlando, Florida, 2008: It was reported on March 14 by the Orange County Health Department that two people who were staying at a Quality Suites, contracted Legionnaires' disease, possibly from a pool and spa that did not have adequate chlorine.Legionnaires' Disease Found At Local Hotel
::Again, vague. Strains outbreak definition to limit.
*Syracuse, New York, 2008: An outbreak infecting 11 people was confirmed in Syracuse, New York in July 2008, and was traced to an air conditioning cooling tower at Community General Hospital.  One infected person died. In the same month, the health department discovered Legionella bacteria in the water system of the Van Duyn nursing home. They don't believe this is related to the outbreak at Community General Hospital.
*Elmira, New York, 2008: An outbreak in Elmira, New York occurred in August 2008 and resulted in 13 confirmed cases and caused the death of two people.  The outbreak occurred at the Edward Flannery Apartments, which is overseen by the Elmira Housing Authority.  The outbreak occurred one month after a municipal water main break at the edge of the buildings' driveway. Elmira Housing Authority
*New Brunswick, New Jersey, 2008: An outbreak in New Brunswick, New Jersey occurred in September 2008.  There are 8 confirmed cases and three deaths caused by the infection as of October 6, 2008.  The outbreak occurred at Saint Peters University Hospital.  Appropriate action is being taken to investigate the water supply as the source.
*Galway, Ireland, 2008: In October, 2008 The Health Service Executive in Ireland announced an outbreak of Legionnaires Disease at University College Hospital in Galway.
*Las Vegas, Nevada, 2008: The Clark County Health Department has announced that four guests of the Polo Towers in Las Vegas, Nevada have confirmed cases and is urging anyone who stayed at the hotel between during August and September 2008 to recieve a medical check-up. It has also been confirmed that the disease was traced to the hotel's water system.
::More tiny and sporadic events; do not fit "notable outbreak" concept
:None of the above outbreaks seem to reach notability on anything other than a local level (the 1985 UK event may be an exception). While there isn't (to my knowledge) a Wikipedia-wide notability standard for disease outbreaks, the MEDMOS standard for individual cases seems like a good starting point. -- MarcoTolo (talk) 20:38, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: *Discussion also beginning here on the larger question of infectious outbreak notability. -- MarcoTolo (talk) 20:51, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Although the subject' of an article on Wikipedia needs to be notable to be in Wikipedia, it is not true that every sentence= in the article needs to be individually notable.  Stating that the individual outbreaks do not "seem to reach notability" only indicates that not all of the individual outbreaks need their own entry-- not that they should not be mentioned into this article.  Geoffrey.landis (talk) 15:41, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

text: I agree, and I am going to restore ones with deaths. Article notability and list notability are different and the number of cases per year is not relevant. What makes it notable is the coverage and that is when there is a cluster and if someone dies. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 16:05, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable outbreaks 

message: I believe that Legionella Risk assessment should be deleted or merged into this one.  Comments? 12:52, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe that Legionella Risk assessment should be redirected to this page, as this page already contains all of the references that that page does, except for the spammy ones to the author's own testing company site. WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 12:57, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal 

message: "When the disease is caused by contact with the organism in a hospital, it is called a "nosocomial infection."" - I don't see this as helpful.  Any infection contracted in a hospital is called nosocomial just like any health issue caused by a doctor is called iatrogenic. This isn't explanatory of Legionellosis; it's explanatory of nosocomial. /mjp (talk) 05:08, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nosocomial 

message: The data in this article seems to be inconsistent from section to section.
*Lead:  "The fatality rate of Legionnaires' disease has ranged from 5% to 30% during various outbreaks."  
In the list of outbreaks, the fatality rates range from 1.3% (Spain outbreak, using only the "confirmed" cases-- lower if the "estimated" number is used) to 18% (Norway outbreak, 10 out of 56).  
*"The death rate for patients who develop Legionnaire's disease while in the hospital is close to 50%, especially when antibiotics are started late", according to the NIH and U.S. National Library of Medicine service's MedlinePlus"''
But in the "Prognosis" section: 
*"According to the journal Infection Control and Hospital Epidemiology, hospital-acquired Legionella pneumonia has a fatality rate of 28%"
(I will note that it's a little confusing to see how the death rate can be "especially" close to 50% when antibiotics are started late.  This means it's only "approximately" close to 50% otherwise?)Geoffrey.landis (talk) 15:41, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Inconsistent data

message: I live in the affected area of Edinburgh and have been following the story closely. I've updated the figures in line with the press release shown on BBC news 15:00  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.203.43.103 (talk) 14:42, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes you have but some of the facts that you added are incorrect. The gentleman who died did not die of legionnaires, he had underlying health concerns too which you did not add. The citation you offered does not state 40 infected, it states 17 confirmed and 15 suspected. Please fix values and citations using the correct format. If you are unsure how to do this I will be more than happy to assist.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.20.247.136 (talk) 16:16, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Update to Edinburgh outbreak stats 

message: This section currently says "Surface organelles are made up from at least forty various protein components reconcile motile bacteria." (revision http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Legionellosis&diff=462816453&oldid=462813733) which doesn't appear to make any sense at all. The cited paper says "Bacterial flagella are highly complex molecular machines. They are surface organelles assembled from over 40 different protein components that mediate bacterial motility." which at least is clear. I assume the rewrite was an attempt to not just copy text verbatim. However I'm not convinced this information is specific enough to this disease to warrant inclusion here, a link to flagella would probably do. In any case it's out of place in the middle of the first paragraph which isn't otherwise discussing the role of legionella flagella - the second paragraph appears to be trying to do that, but also in a particularly unclear/word-soup way. 81.134.152.4 (talk) 18:05, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cause 

message: See heading basically. As it is now, it looks like some of the notes in the table are more like an entire section rather then just notes. Because they are subsequently elongated, the table cells in some places are about 30 lines tall. It generally looks untidy as it is. Any objections to shortening the notes in an effort to get it looking more like... a table. Maybe even the remote chance of fitting it into one screen is on the cards? MrZoolook (talk) 16:31, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable cases table : too much in notes column 

message: I moved the table of outbreaks to a separate article List of Legionellosis outbreaks and included the action tables, etc., to show governmental efforts to control outbreaks. That section seemed to go well with it. I also ordered the table by year. Before that it had no logical order. The page still needs a lot of work. The transmission and cause sections are redundant and the lede needs to be rewritten with citations. I'll do what I can over the weekend. Malke 2010 (talk) 06:08, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  split page