Talk:House of Borgia

message: The removed material appears below, with an added citation reference to a book containing the Johann Burchard diary quote.  However, the diary has been published in an English translation (Francis Griffith 1910)https://ia600606.us.archive.org/23/items/diaryofjohnburc01burc/diaryofjohnburc01burc_djvu.txt, and doesn't seem to record the alleged incident.
Johann Burchard, a contemporary of Alexander VI, who lived in the Vatican, states about Cesare:
 HiTechHiTouch (talk) 22:32, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Johann Burchard Citation 

message: The entire page is quite poorly written - it reads like either a mediocre high-school essay or (more likely) was penned by someone whose first language wasn't actually English. The sentence structure is clumsy and the syntax choppy and inconsistent; it would benefit greatly from a top-to-bottom edit, cleanup, and partial rewrite. Given that in US (and likely other markets) the Showtime television drama "The Borgias", slated for release in April 2011, will draw considerably more attention to this page (it's the top Google hit for the search word "Borgias"), it seems a high priority for cleanup.
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Agreed.  This article is very poorly written.  I've flagged it for a rewrite.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.181.140.84 (talk) 02:42, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Poorly-written 

message: The article said he was "brilliant". How so? The only thing he seemed to excel at was nepotism. Sirkowski 21:01, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alexander VI, brilliant? 

message: There should be a page devoted to papal families and other interconnections: as this is the most well known such, I am placing the request here. Jackiespeel 17:01, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Papal Families

message: This is a Valencian family.  Wikipedia authors should stick to eponyms please.  There is no way the early Borjas could have been born Bogia as they were not Italian... at first. Later Borgias we can use the Italian spelling.  I'm an Italophile and I love Italian history, but let's recognize accuracy above popular history and common modern day exonyms (there are of course exceptions, but when you are telling a reader an particular persons birth name stick to the name they were given at birth, not the common translation)
Another example the House of Stuart.  One uses StEWart before Mary, Queen of Scots and Stuart, after her stay in France, for the Scottish royal family and their descendants. We should change the name of this article.
: I must agree that the entry should use the original spelling of Borja from the town in Aragón but I must say that the spelling in Italian is Borgia and not Bogia. I also agree on Stewart over Stuart for the parallelism.
: ICE77 (talk) 02:45, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Borja and not Borgia 

message: I don't think Cesare was ever Duke of Gandia.  In any case, the first Duke was Pedro Luis, his elder brother, and he was suceeded by Juan, one of Cesare's younger brothers.  Cesare may have acquired the title when Juan died in 1497, but it's not on the genealogy I'm using.  Does anyone know any different?  Maybe this line should be deleted, because it doesn't strike me as being particularly relevant anyway.  Also, Pedro Luis, the First Duke of Gandia, became a Duke - and died - while Rodrigo Borgia was still a cardinal.
--SoniaUK 18:40, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dukedom of Gandia 

message: A fundamentalist Protestant who hates Catholicism is claiming that the Borgia family is Jewish? Is this true?CelticSicilian (talk) 02:30, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jewish? 

message: like in many other italian noble families (the Medici's and Farnese are the most famous) the use of Coat of Arms was very common, and my question IS: is there any knowledge of a coat of arms that was used by the House of Borgia? --Oren neu dag (talk) 22:30, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Possible Coat of Arms? 

message: This page appears to me to be more about Rodrigo Borgia than about the family. Shouldn't it be better to redirect the readers to the page of pope Alexander VI for the details about Rodrigo's life and add instead somewhat more about the other Borgia's?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.191.138.240 (talk) 08:00, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Structural change 

message: Some ref are obvious hoaxes. I deleted them --Alexandre Rongellion (talk) 06:23, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  references in litterature and cinema

message: On the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borgia, in the section History/Expansion/Cesare, there is the statement:
          "Cesare's education was accurately planned by his father."
Though I'm an intelligent, well educated person, and a native speaker of (and published writer in) English, I have no 
idea at all of what the writer of this sentence meant to convey to Wikipedia's readers...
Some clarification, perhaps?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.3.205.119 (talk) 09:34, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  What the heck? 

message: This is the most poorly written article I have ever seen in Wikipedia.  Some of it makes no sense at all--some of it is nothing more than rumor.  Historians do not write like this.  Some of the well-known facts are correct but others are dubious at best.  I suspect tampering with the original article may be to blame. Historian1031 (talk) 06:04, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  The references to the Assassin's Creed video games are actually just recording the Borgia Family's appearance in Popular Culture, much like the appearance of the TV series, they are not used as sources. AxStaffer (talk) 14:30, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Having read about the Borgia for the last 15 years, since my interest was first piqued, I find this article to be appalling! I don't have the time to research & re-write but is it possible (particularly with The Borgias now showing) to have this highlighted somewhere for others, who are more knowledgeable & able to dedicate their time, to re-write? (",) 86.63.26.124 (talk) 22:37, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Poorly written 

message: I'm not qualified to make factual improvements, but as a technical writer I can at least improve the structure a little.  The section "The Other Siblings" after the portraits repeats some members already mentioned, and not all of them are siblings of anyone in particular, so the heading is incorrect.  It is also unformatted; it's just a plain text line.  The whole section is a dangling addendum anyway.  If this information belongs anywhere, it's at the end of section "History", and its title should be something like "Other Borgias".  The preceding section of portraits titled "Notable Members" should not be called that, because some Borgias whose pictures don't appear are also notable, or the article would not note them, which it does.  A better title would be "Borgia portraits".  The "Borgia genealogy tree" and "Papal arms" graphics are poorly placed; each has an obvious better location at the top of the relevant section.  I have made the described changes, which are purely structural, not factual.  Perhaps as a side effect this will call enough attention to this article that someone qualified will address the other, more serious problems noted in this Talk page.
Ornithikos 00:45, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Somewhat Improved Structurally

message: "Template: Royal House of Cock Eaters"? It's almost clever as far as vandalism goes. 66.207.23.59 (talk) 21:45, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  What 

message: The article needs more information about the extinction of the different lines. When did the Spanish (de Borja) branch ended?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.46.251.196 (talk) 15:11, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Falls under original research, and ergo, I can't endorse this information to be put into the article 'til somebody wants to properly research it. Anyways, Borja/Borgia has variations on the spelling of the name today, with Bourbon, Boyd, Boyle, Doyle, Beauregard, etc. being variations thereof. If the name or line is extinct, it can be discussed here, and see if the lines and descendants match up. No need to put into the article 'til it's properly done. 70.180.188.238 (talk) 17:20, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extinct 

message: Someone needs to edit this for inconsistencies regarding Rodrigo Borgia's two sones; Cesare and Giovanni. There are multiple occasions where which of the two is the older and the younger is confused. I believe that Cesare was the elder son, and this is borne out in the text a number of times, but there are also places where the text says that Giovanni is the oldest son.
148.240.61.197 (talk) 06:10, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inconsistencies

message: I suggest you rewrite this page using, for this purpose, the existing Spanish Wikipedia.
Sorry for my poor English.
--Julio Durán Borja (talk) 06:23, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  On page rewrite 

message: Is the Semi-Gotha mentioned in this article the same as the Almanach de Gotha? Hcobb (talk) 23:10, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-Gotha 

message: Shouldn't The Papacy be included in the list?Duelistgamer (talk) 05:41, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: No, because while the papacy was held by two Borgias, the office is electoral and not hereditary and hence could not be said to be held by the family. 74.215.51.75 (talk) 16:13, 14 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Titles held by the family 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The genealogical tree of the Borja/Borgia family is really ugly. Also, the mother of Cesare, Giovanni, Lucrezia and Gioffre is not Vannoza dei Gattanei but Giovanna dei Cattanei or, at most and most commonly, Vannozza dei Cattanei. Please somebody rebuild the tree and make it similar to the one in this section of the Hundred Years War: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Years%27_War#Dynastic_turmoil_in_France:_1316%E2%80%931328. 
ICE77 (talk) 02:53, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Genealogical tree ugliness and inconsistency