Talk:Violin

message: Wouldn't it be nice to bring this up to featured article status? Apart from the references, what's a wishlist of things to do to make this article better? I'll jump in and help when I can. --HappyCamper 21:42, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think there are any problems aside from references.  Helping with those would be great! —Mets501 (talk) 04:25, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bring to featured article status 

message: The bass is not part of the violin family. The based is tuned in forths and has several different characteristics. I will make the correction now. Keegan 22:09, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There was some discussion about this on Talk:Violin family. J Lorraine 01:43, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bass is not part of the violin family

message: Reading through the article, I spot several mainly stylistic issues:
*The lead is too short for an article of this length, and doesn't summarise the article adequately (no mention of the violin's history etc.)
*"The word "violin" comes to us through the" sounds informal; "originates" suffices.
*"this word may also be the source of the Germanic "fiddle". OR? I don't see a source cited for this.
*In the history section, "middle east" should be capitalized (what does rebab have do with things? It's not clear)
*I'd the move the list of famous luthiers to the luthier article; a bulleted list doesn't flow in a section of prose.
*Several uncited remarks, such as " But these instruments in their present condition set the standard for perfection in violin craftsmanship and sound, and violin makers all over the world try to come as close to this ideal as possible."
*I've spotted a number of one or two-line paragraphs; you should expand or merge these, as they don't flow too well. The "Popular music" section is an example of this.
*"don't" should be "do not"; more formal.
*The web references should include access dates (take a look at )
*The further reading section needs trimming; 20 is a little too much.
Because much of the prose and lead will have to be expanded, I've failed this article's GA candidacy. If you wish to disagree with or wish to clarify any of my points, feel free to contact me on my talk page. CloudNine 09:39, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Failed GA 

message: I'm directing this Just plain Bill's way, as this seems to be the kind of thing he enjoys puzzling out. Currently, the article is at odds with another article here (surprise, surprise). This article says
:The stick is traditionally made of brazilwood, although a stick made from this type of wood which is of a more select quality (and higher price) is referred to as pernambuco (both types are taken from the same tree species).
while the article on brazilwood begs to differ:
:"Pernambuco" and "Brazilwood" as used in the stringed instruments bows come from completely different species, contrary to some popular belief.
(the article goes on to name several species that are called brazilwood when bows are made of them).
So which is correct? I really have no idea myself. +ILike2BeAnonymous 03:49, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Like a lot of folks, it seems, I've "always" thought that pau brasil was the Pernambuco tree, and the heartwood called "pernambuco" while lesser wood from the same tree was called Brazil wood. I do know from personal experience that pernambuco is a hard, bright orange wood, and getting its sanding dust in one's nose will lead to fascinating purple stains on the tissues. I carry a scar on my septum, possibly from this exposure. Oops, TMI, sorry ;-) Give me some time to do a bit of research... __Just plain Bill 13:52, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pernambuco vs. brazilwood 

message: In my unscholarly view it is a chord spelled with only two notes. Someone can probably find a theoretical tome that says different. Not invested either way here, but discussion might be useful. __Just plain Bill (talk) 15:33, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia's own article about chords ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chord_(music) ) specifies they must contain at least 3 notes, so I would suggest a correction too. Posted 14:04, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is a double stop a chord, or only part of one? 

message: From Tuning: "Another prevalent tuning with these intervals is F-Bb-F-Bb, which corresponds to Sa-Pa-Sa-Pa in the Indian carnatic classical music style. In the North Indian "Hindustani" style, the tuning is usually Pa-Sa-Pa-Sa instead of Sa-Pa-Sa-Pa. This could correspond to Bb-F-Bb-F, for instance." Sa-Pa would be the interval of a fifth, whereas F-Bb is a fourth. Someone correct this.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.138.100.143 (talk) 14:22, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: From Tuning: There appears to be no mention of the tuning that was used in the Renaissance/Baroque Era and into the early Classical era.  Historically, there was no specific pitch in these eras.  The violinist would often tune to a church organ's A, which ranged anywhere from A=380hz to A=480hz.  Other times, it would tune to another instrument, such as an oboe or flute, whose tuning is absolute and cannot be changed.  Today, based on the recovery of certain instruments of the time, Baroque tuning is generally presumed to be A=415hz and is used by nearly every Baroque orchestra today. Someone include this. Tristan01101 (talk) 17:15, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The tuning section already mentions variable pitch standard as well as tuning to a fixed-pitch instrument. This article is not the place for extended discussion of historical pitch standards. __ Just plain Bill (talk) 18:08, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

text: Earlier pitch standards are shown at Concert_pitch#History_of_pitch_standards_in_Western_music; duplicating that text in this article isn't really necessary, and would burden future editors with maintaining two instances of similar content. This article now has a link to that page in the "Tuning" section. Do we need more than that? __ Just plain Bill (talk) 22:02, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

text: No big deal, but the size of this article is about as big as it should get for convenient reading. If you feel like adding information about changing pitch standards, History_of_the_violin#Transition_from_Baroque_to_modern_form seems like a good place for it. That page is still at a size that allows plenty of expansion. The subject of the violin covers a lot of ground, which is why we have this main article, with sections summarizing and pointing to further articles on its subtopics. __ Just plain Bill (talk) 18:15, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tuning 

message: A request has been made to move Violinist to Violinist (disambiguation), in order to then make Violinist a redirect to Violin.  See Talk:Violinist#Requested move.  --Una Smith (talk) 05:37, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Violinist redirect to Violin? 

message: I have started a new wikiproject, WikiProject Stringed Instruments. I am looking for 2 other coordinators to help it get started. Apply on my talk page by answering the following questions.
1. Edit count, how long you have been active on Wikipedia.
2. How often you edit string-related articles. (Scale of 1-10)
3.  What you hope to accomplish if made coordinator.
Please post by March 1, 2009.
ṜedMarkViolinistDrop me a line 19:37, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Wikiproject 

message: Hi. Forgive me if this doesn't show up right, as I literally just created my account and have no clue how this works, but i have a question. It's not as important as an argument between the differences of a Violinist and Fiddler, but I would really like to know...
I have heard of people naming their instruments, whether it be after a beloved grandmother, or even a Greek God. So i was wondering...Why? Is it some sort of tradition, superstition,? I have looked for anything on the web to give me a clue, but no cigar. Any info out there for me??  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Michelle21 318 (talk • contribs) 00:04, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It is just something some people do (and some don't), pretty much a personal thing, as far as I can tell. There is a thread about it on fiddleforum, but it's in a section you need to register to see. (Registration is free, and the site won't spam you.) __Just plain Bill (talk) 00:39, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

text: Exactly -- some people do, many don't.  When you play for many, many years, you develop a relationship with your instrument; you depend on it, and it seems curiously "alive."  Hard to explain to a non-musician perhaps.  My violin is over 200 years old, and that sound it makes has a voice full of history, and deserving of a name.  (None of this belongs in the article -- it's just a rather personal response to your query, in the spirit of being helpful.)  Cheers, Antandrus  (talk) 00:49, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Naming A Violin (Or any other instrument)

message: From context, this should be the first half of the sixteenth century, but could someone who knows please fix this? Thanks. (fotoguzzi)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.64.235.42 (talk) 06:59, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  The school of Cremona, beginning in the half of 16 century vith violas and violone  

message: An unsourced sentence apparently speculating about a direct central Asian predecessor to the violin, through the Silk Road, is followed by a sourced sentence stating instruments from the Middle East and Byzantium as its direct predecessors. Obviously, this mention of a Silk Road connection to north Italy in light of the sourced statement that follows it is either irrelevant (statement about economic trade links in general?), unsourced (claim of an additional direct influence to the violin?) or untrue (claim of an exclusive central Asian origin to the violin?), depending on how you interpret its meaning.
The violin in its present form emerged in early 16th-Century Northern Italy, where the port towns of Venice and Genoa maintained extensive ties to central Asia through the trade routes of the silk road.
The modern European violin evolved from various bowed stringed instruments from the Middle East[4] and the Byzantine Empire.[5][6]
Abvgd (talk) 12:59, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not see a conflict here. The silk road reached Europe through the Middle East and Byzantium. Casual looking around in Wikipedia shows Central Asian fiddles dating at least as far back as the seventh through tenth centuries. The routes of cultural diffusion are relevant, and of course sourcing will be appropriate. Please point out the "claim of an exclusive central Asian origin to the violin" since I do not see that here. Reading the article and following the links, it looks more like a continuous process of geographical diffusion and technical development, reaching the stage we call "violin" around "early 16th-Century Northern Italy." __ Just plain Bill (talk) 16:21, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conflicting statements about the violin's origins 

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thread_title: File:VMute.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: What are those two articles under "Further Reading" for? Either they are references or they aren't! Looks suspiciously like someone is trying to publicise their papers on the sly. Epeeist smudge (talk) 14:15, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Further Reading 

message: The painting from San Zaccaria Altarpiece is a painting of a vielle (or Renaissance fiddle, as it's called in the article). It's nice, and relevant in that it's a forerunner to the violin.
But wouldn't a picture of an early violin be more appropriate? 
The painting of La Madonna degli aranci by Gaudenzio Ferrari (from 1529/30) shows an early violin.
I would suggest using this one. Any objections? Mloafness (talk) 12:32, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Painting from San Zaccaria Altarpiece 

message: This makes me wonder, really. What was the historical reason to play a violin right under your chin? Komitsuki (talk) 16:06, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Violin and chin 

message: I dove in and added a bit to tone production, and moved the quote relating to Pythagorean tuning since it doesn't have much to do with ringing octaves. I think a bit more could be said about equal temperament vs  'just' tuning etc 118.208.246.237 (talk) 05:45, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I adjusted the bit about discord with respect to a piano. When there is a piano or other instrument with fixed tuning in the mix, a capable violinist will adjust. As far as more being said here about ET/JI/Pythagorean etc., in my opinion the hyperlinks to Pythagorean tuning and equal temperament are enough. __ Just plain Bill (talk) 15:39, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tone production 

message: I've added a section "Posture". While this duplicates information from the article Playing the violin I figured since information on the left and right hands also duplicates information from that article, at least the section on playing in this article should be complete and not leave out an important element such as posture. Contact Basemetal here 13:37, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Appears to be a good start. Thanks! __ Just plain Bill (talk) 15:18, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Posture 

message: Whats the difference in the sound produced by one violin compared
 to that produced by lots of violins playing together?
john f 212.183.128.145 (talk) 17:15, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  one violin - lots of violins 

message: Is it just me, or is it ludicrous that the "Popular Music" subsection is twice as long as all the others combined? It's certainly lopsided to list every pop group with a violin but not a single classical composer. FourViolas (talk) 03:23, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Undue weight in #Musical styles 

message: Odd shaped violins. I think this is also a good piece of info. Komitsuki (talk) 07:19, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Odd-shaped violins 

message: diff Discuss... Just plain Bill (talk) 19:00, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: It appears to me that the "history" section could be expanded. As it is, it only includes the major Italian makers up through about the middle of the 18th century. Needs mention of the German schools, Mittenwald etc. with a mention of Klotz carefully given the appropriate weight, along the the French makers such as Vuillaume, with some information on the characteristics of each. That can of course be extended to modern times, with American makers, Chinese makers, style copies, non-traditional materials and forms, etc. There's probably some easily available references for this. Note that some of this appears in history of the violin but even that could be expanded. Antandrus (talk) 14:10, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Klotz 

message: Soon it will be a week since the tag was applied suggesting a merge with the fiddle article... so far nobody has commented. I do not favor a merge, for the same reason a lot of content was split out into child articles sometime around 2005 or 2006: the parent "Violin" article had grown larger than the recommended limit for Wikipedia articles. Today it is 88KB, big enough that adding large blocks of content is probably not a good idea. Just plain Bill (talk) 14:43, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it's a good idea to keep them separate -- the other article is well developed and makes the distinctions clear. Agree that merge would make the violin article too large. Antandrus (talk) 17:55, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, there are other bowed instruments that may be considered "fiddles" (such as a nyckelharpa or crwth - I'm not an expert, just saying) - so any mention of these instruments could be expanded on in the Fiddle article. LovelyLillith (talk) 22:02, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge tag 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The article now says:
:Following a stage of intensive development in the late Renaissance, largely in Italy, the violin had improved (in volume, tone, and agility), to the point that it not only became a very important instrument in art music, but proved highly appealing to folk musicians as well..
This has a cart-before-horse feel to it, running counter to the notion that the violin started out with a name for being a vulgar street instrument, as opposed to the genteel refined viol. As that story goes, only later did the violin gain entry to the world of art music. I don't know how accurate that is, and welcome comment. Just plain Bill (talk) 16:38, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Art music before folk? 

message: I've edited two sections: Double stops and posture.  
Double stops: I've never seen the "non divisi" indication, but I've seen "divisi". This means that when you see a double stop in an orchestal part, and there's no indication, you are supposed to play the double stop. Also, triple-stopping in Baroque music sounds good when done well. 
Posture: I've added hunching and pain in the left hand, always a bad sign. 
190.173.181.208 (talk) 20:23, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Double stops and posture.  

message: AdrianWikiEditor (talk) 23:24, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: requests for increases to the page protection level should be made at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection. RudolfRed (talk) 23:52, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request for Semi Protection 

message: I am a violinist and i would love to add important things that were forgoten.
thanks, Luke Effuheufh (talk) 16:39, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 17:09, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate.  Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone will add them for you, or if you have an account, you can wait until you are autoconfirmed and edit the page yourself. Signed, I Am Chaos (talk) 17:09, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 21 October 2021 

message: can i help edit Luke the III (talk) 16:47, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone will add them for you, or if you have an account, you can wait until you are autoconfirmed and edit the page yourself. Cannolis (talk) 17:08, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 21 October 2021 (2) 

message: Presently the article suggests the terms violin and fiddle are used as synonyms. I would hazard to say that in the term fiddle is used only amusingly, jocosely, or very very casually. They are not the same word and aren't used in the same way. They refer to completely different situations. Pbhressays (talk) 22:14, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Fiddle" and "violin" 

message: An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect :FiddleandViolin and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 May 8#FiddleandViolin until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  Steel1943 (talk) 07:49, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "FiddleandViolin" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: Vienna symphonic library and Violin Inspriation both said the highest note possible is A7, could someone explain to me why this article says it's B7?
2601:647:4C00:D260:A925:EF1:15B3:6515 (talk) 21:42, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: "Yet higher notes (up to C8) can be sounded by stopping the string, reaching the limit of the fingerboard, and/or by using artificial harmonics." Ok, it's seems like not a big deal now. 2601:647:4C00:D260:A925:EF1:15B3:6515 (talk) 21:48, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Range 

message: The section on Playing never mentions up bow versus down bow, which seems a basic aspect. I've noted a similar omission in the article on the cello and presumably in articles about other bowed instruments. The natural place to insert this information is the beginning of the section on Bowing techniques, but as a non-violinist I'm hesitant to write anything. Ishboyfay (talk) 04:01, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Up bow and down bow 

message: The reference to the violin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violin) as "the basis for the development of other stringed instruments used in Western classical music, such as the viola" is incorrect.
The following passage (from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violin_family) is correct:  "Instrument names in the violin family are all derived from the root viola, which is a derivative of the Medieval Latin word vitula (meaning "stringed instrument")." 2A06:4944:18EA:FE00:0:0:0:4EA3 (talk) 11:58, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: We don't use other Wikipedia articles as sources; the development of the instrument is not identical with the etymology of its name. That said, we should really not be using etymonline as a source in either article. It's based (to what extent I don't know) on the OED and other dictionaries but it's also Douglas R. Harper's website - he's a historian, not an acknowleged linguistics expert. His site is highly commended by many but some of his sources seem rather old.Haploidavey (talk) 12:04, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

text: Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the  template. casualdejekyll 17:39, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 19 December 2022 

message: More like the Symbol “Vi vi” Landonclark178 (talk) 22:28, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 02:01, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 26 October 2023