Talk:Custard

message: Pastry creme (cream), which is essentially the English for "creme patissiere", is not only NOT the same thing as custard (not even the same thing as creme patissiere, actually) - but the term includes large-scale commercial recipes that do not even contain any dairy product at all but are manufactured from corn syrup; as well as smaller scale varieties based on vegetable shortening.
The "creme filling" in Hostess Twinkies, Cup Cakes, Ho-Ho's, and so on, is an example of the corn syrup-based artificial pastry creme.  Amusement parks, such as Cedar Point in Sandusky, Ohio, often sell filled doughnuts with what they call "Bavarian creme" (which, in true form, *is* a custard) but which is actually a thicker, fluffy version of the same corn syrup based "creme" used by Hostess, Little Debbie, Dolley Madison, and other snack cake brands.  Or sometimes this 'faux' Bavarian creme is the shortening-based "creme" filling.
The downtown bakery in my hometown of Milan, Michigan used the latter variety for creme-filled long Johns (filled bar doughnuts) and creme-filled eclairs.  (They also did custard-filled long Johns but the creme-filled were much more popular.)  This product contains the same ingredients as the basic icing used for cake decorating - a simple recipe of powdered sugar and vegetable shortening, typically flavoured with either vanilla, almond or lemon extract.  But whereas the icing is designed for spreadability, the "creme" version uses less shortening and is whipped to a fluffy consistency.  The same type of 'faux' pastry creme can also be made using butter instead of shortening, basically as a lighter, fluffier version of butter frosting - used as a creme filling.
Real pastry creme, by contrast, is stiffly whipped cream, typically flavoured with high quality vanilla extract and sweetened with powdered sugar - the cornstarch used in powdered sugar (to prevent caking and crystalisation) helping to stabilise the creme, by absorbing liquid as it slowly collapses over time (which, in turn, elminates the "starchy" taste associated with uncooked powdered sugar; butter vegetable shortening has the same effect of neutralising the starchy taste).  This is filling typically used in creme puffs and creme-filled eclairs (which use the same pastry as creme puffs but in a different shape; and the original eclair is made with a custard or Bavarian creme filling, not a pastry creme filling).
Some bakers will co-mingle the real pastry creme with a corn syrup- or shortening-based variety, which makes the latter taste better while giving the former a longer shelf life.  Otherwise, back in Milan, we knew the creme-filled long johns were not made with "real" pastry cream because the creme was fluffy and light at room temperature on a hot summer day (and, of course, frosting dressed up to look like whipped cream never tastes like whipped cream).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.4.56.198 (talk) 07:43, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: As a pastry chef myself, I can definitely say that "custard" and "creme patissiere" are NOT the same and they are not used interchangeably.  Their preparations are similar, but have distinct differences.  Custard and its variations are simply cream and/or milk, sugar, vanilla flavouring of some sort, and egg yolks.  When cooked at too high a temperature it will invariably curdle and cannot be saved.  The variation of egg yolks leads to different end products such as creme brulee or creme anglaise, which aren't similar in their thicknesses.  Creme patissiere contains the exact same ingredients with the addition some sort of starch which stabilises the mixture and prevents curdling.  Thus it can be brought to a boil which thickens the mixture and cooks out any raw starch taste.  Creme patissiere is much thicker than any custard and can even be piped, in addition it is rarely eaten on its own and is mostly used as a filling.  Thus, creme patissiere should not re-direct to custard since they are distinct end-products with different preparations. 37.8.170.128 (talk) 18:28, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Likewise, Pastry Creme is not Custard and Should Not Redirect Thereto

message: Creme patissiere and Custard are not the same thing, anyone who has ever made both will know this and will agree then, that Creme patissiere should not redirect to Custard.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.159.18.14 (talk) 21:57, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Creme patissiere

message: The previous version of this article didn't distinguish between custard (thickened only with egg) and pastry cream (thickened with both egg and starch).  It also seems to include blancmange as a kind of custard though it includes no egg at all, but is thickened with starch (which would make it a pudding), or with gelatin.  My American and French references (McGee, Larousse Gastronomique, Kamman), and for that matter the OED all agree that custard does not contain starch.  Nonetheless,   I will assume that this is an English idiosyncracy, and so I have left it in.--Macrakis 22:55, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Differentiation 

message: I would like to know more about the history of custard -- who first used it, how long ago, and how it differed from the form we know today. Does anyone have any information on this? 81.79.56.85 13:31, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  History? 

message: I put a separate dab for Bird's Custard back in; reason being that in the UK, this *is* what most people mean by "custard". Thus it's likely that (a) Many people will search for "custard" when they had the Bird's type in mind, and (b) They may not even realise that there's a difference.
I believe that it's better to point this out (very briefly) at the start, rather than expecting them to read through an article which doesn't actually cover what they were looking for. It's even possible that unless they read to the end, they may be misled into thinking that the Bird's type is egg-based. Fourohfour 14:08, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This article focuses on true custards, thickened with egg. For imitation custards thickened with starch, see Bird's Custard.
Yes, I know that starch is more general than cornflour (AKA cornstarch, same thing, different name). Unless powdered custards are being made with other forms of starch, why be less precise? The "imitation" wording is kind of loaded and may be misleading; in Britain, "custard" refers more often to the cornflour-based version anyway, it's not really meant as an "imitation". 
I've rewritten it again to avoid it being misleading, but to remove the problems above.
Fourohfour 20:21, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

text: No doubt; as you said yourself, the "custard powder" type of custard is probably a UK/Commonwealth thing. Anyway, I rewrote the dab to simply mention "custard powder", which is probably enough. Fourohfour 10:04, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Separate DAB line 

message: I rewrote Macrakis's rewrite of the dab
: This article focuses on true custards, thickened with egg. For imitation custards thickened with starch, see Bird's Custard.
Yes, I know that starch is more general than cornflour (AKA cornstarch, same thing, different name). Unless powdered custards are being made with other forms of starch, why be less precise? The "imitation" wording is kind of loaded and may be misleading; in Britain, "custard" refers more often to the cornflour-based version anyway, it's not really meant as an "imitation". 
I've rewritten it again to avoid it being misleading, but to remove the problems above.
Fourohfour 20:21, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No doubt; as you said yourself, the "custard powder" type of custard is probably a UK/Commonwealth thing. Anyway, I rewrote the dab to simply mention "custard powder", which is probably enough. Fourohfour 10:04, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: DAB rewrite

message: Got rid of "confusingly called crème anglaise" at the beginning as  
A) I don't believe it is confusing.
B) Consistency.  No mention of confusion is made of the Italian name, which is also "English Cream"  --garryq 12:01, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone apparently changed the original wording, which was "confusingly called simply crème" (which makes it sound like dairy cream) to "confusingly called crème anglaise", which of course made nonsense of the comment.  I have corrected it. --Macrakis 18:24, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  crème anglaise 

message: Proper preparation of Hollandaise and Bearnaise sauces rely on cooking egg-yolks properly, such that the sauce emulsifies, much like a custard.  It seems the primary difference is that these sauces do not employ any milk or dairy products.  However, Allemande sauces (closely related to Hollandaise and Bearnaise,) usually do contain cream as an ingredient.  Would these sauces somehow qualify as custards? Caen 00:55, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, they are using eggs as emulsifiers of water/fat mixtures, so there may be some physico-chemical similarity.  But as far as culinary terminology goes, I don't think anyone would call mayonnaise (uncooked) or Hollandaise (cooked) sauce a kind of custard. --Macrakis 01:26, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Savory Sauces 

message: Sorry, but I'm French and custard doesn't mean "crème anglaise". In french "custard" is translated as "crème patissière". And plus "crème anglaise" ("English cream") doens't come from England but deffinitily from France. We the French call this liquid cream "crème anglaise" because of the main dessert in which we use it : "îles flottantes" (floating islands). The Islands are the white of the egg mixed with sugar and forming a floating sweet mass in the middle of a cup full of "crème anglaise". So why the cream should be called "english" ? because of the floating white mass, which represent the british islands in the middle of a sea... of cream (lol). That's the real reason, "crème anglaise" is only english on its name and no on its origin, thanks for reading. 343KKT Kintaro (talk) 15:58, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Crème patissière is one particular kind of custard, the kind that is used for filling patisseries.  The kind you eat by itself is, if I'm not mistaken, simply called crème, which is of course very ambiguous if it's not qualified. See the French wikipedia page fr:Crèmes pour pâtisserie. As for the story about crème anglaise and îles flottantes is charming, but doesn't seem likely. Do you have a WP:Reliable source for it? --macrakis (talk) 22:53, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: As Crème pâtissière explains, it contains flour, and is therefore not a true custard. On the other hand Creme_anglaise explains that it is made with milk, eggs, sugar and vanilla. That is a custard. Globbet (talk) 00:17, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think this is just classic French culinary chauvinism that nothing good can possibly come from England. It's called English Cream for a reason: because it's custard. The fact that it may be thinner than classic English custard is neither here nor there - my gran made far runnier custard than some of the "creme anglaise" I've had in France.Gymnophoria (talk) 19:18, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Custard" is not "crème anglaise" in french 

message: I came here to find the setting temperature for custard. The article says there's a 3-5º range between setting and curdling but the actual temps on either side aren't given, if someone knows what they are it should go in the article. Thanks.
Meltyman (talk) 14:06, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Temperature of the custard must not rise above 189–193°F (87–90°C) or it curdles and the texture is spoiled.24.190.34.219 (talk) 05:50, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Setting temperature not given 

message: The intro uses it as an example, but Blancmange isn't actually a custard. Blancmange in it's traditional and almost all modern recipes doesn't call for eggs.24.190.34.219 (talk) 05:59, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blancmange is not actually a custard 

message: User Unforgettableid has removed a link to a Youtube video that purported to show someone walking on uncooked starch.  The relevant span of two edits: .  Unforgettableid has asserted the reference "seems" like a copyvio in one of the two edit summaries: .  Perhaps so, perhaps not so, I don't know, but one of the URLs given in support of his/her edit leads to a 404 error (external) page. Anyway, it seems to me that a citation or reference to an "unknown episode" is not a reference at all, it's more like a non-reference.  Additionally, the link of the numbered reference in the reference section itself goes to the wikipedia page for the show, that link also exists in the text, thus it's also redundant.  I wanted to query others regarding their thoughts about the matter.  Personally, I'd be in favor of deleting the reference, and possibly replacing it with "citation needed". Gzuufy (talk) 18:08, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Thixotropic vs dilatant, reference changed to "unknown episode"

message: The article currently reads:
:Custard was known in English cuisine at least as early as the fourteenth century. The first reference is as almond milk or almond cream. In a history of the Abbey of Croyland, England Laurence Chateres in 1413. It contained almonds, thick milk, water, salt and sugar. It is supposed by a Henry T Riley in a Notes and Queries that a 'proper' custard cannot be made without almonds.
The given ingredients show that this was not a custard in the modern sense (milk and eggs thickened by heat), so I don't see its relevance to this article. --Macrakis (talk) 23:25, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Almond cream

message: That a Doctor Who scriptwriter picked the common dessert component of "custard" as an amusing ingredient for a running joke doesn't give the reader any insight into the article subject. We get a little more insight from a similar reference in the Jammie Dodgers article, because Jammie Dodgers are a more obscure foodstuff with no other context for how culturally prominent they are, but custard is just custard. It dates back to the middle ages. We could dig up a hundred British TV references to it. --McGeddon (talk) 09:51, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Doctor Who 

message: Creme anglaise is merely the French name for custard, there seems little point having two articles on the same thing particularly when the Creme Anglaise article is quite short and largely repeats what's written here. Gymnophoria (talk) 19:16, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok since no-one seems to disagree, I'll consider this resolved?Gymnophoria (talk) 12:20, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge Creme Anglaise with this page 

message: Substituted at 12:34, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: A discussion about creating a new article about  is underway at talk:Bird's Custard which is the current target of the redirect. -- 65.94.171.217 (talk) 11:54, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Custard powder

message: in your recent edits, you changed the order of the sections from Lead - Variants - Uses - Physical-chemical properties - Chemistry to the order Lead - Chemistry - Variants - Uses - Physical-chemical properties - History. Your edit comments don't say why.
I prefer something closer to the previous order for several reasons:
* This is a culinary article, and most readers will be interested in the varieties of custard more than in its chemistry.
* The sections on Chemistry and Physical-chemical properties really should be adjacent to each other, in fact they probably ought to be merged into one section.
* Most food articles seem to start with Etymology and History before they delve into details. I'm not sure that's the best structure, but I do think that they're of more general interest than Chemistry.
Looking over the article as a whole, I'd think that it should be Lead - Variants - Uses - Chemistry and Physics (one section combining the two former sections). Not quite sure where History belongs. Maybe just after Lead or just after Uses, but certainly before Chemistry and Physics. --Macrakis (talk) 22:26, 31 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Really? I don't remember moving it. I may have gotten mixed up I was trying to combine the Chemistry and Physics sections.Cornsimpel (talk) 01:11, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Order sections

message: An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect :Egg custard and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 November 28#Egg custard until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  eviolite (talk) 16:27, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Egg custard" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]]