Talk:Kevin Clash

message: A photo in this entry shows and is captioned as him with a puppet from Captain Kangaroo.  Yet there is no mention at all in the article about any involvement with that show.  If he was involved somehow, it certainly should be mentioned.  If not, then the photo is misleading (and confusing, why would he pose with a puppet he had nothing to do with?).  Can anyone out there clarify this and update the article? Russeasby 04:30, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: He was involved with Captain Kangaroo for a few years at the same time as Great Space Coaster Timekeeper 18:56, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Should his work on Dog City also be noted? He was the voice/operator of the Eliot Shag puppet, I believe.   --The_Iconoclast (talk) 16:17, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure, if you can find a reliable source for it. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 17:33, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Captain Kangaroo 

message: :Image:Kevin Clash in The News American.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 22:12, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Kevin Clash in The News American.jpg

message: :Image:Kevinclashelmo.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 14:29, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Kevinclashelmo.jpg

message: :Image:KC-GreatSpaceCoaster.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 18:03, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:KC-GreatSpaceCoaster.jpg

message: He said he's gay but he's got children. What is someone who has had sex with a woman to the point of having a child, but claims to have been in a gay sexual relationship called? Is he bisexual? Is the child biologically his?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by AnElaborateLie (talk • contribs) 20:19, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: He was married before.  However, why does it matter?  Jauerbackdude?/dude. 00:43, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  It's information that could be added to the article.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by AnElaborateLie (talk • contribs) 15:01, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, why does it matter? It has no relevance to his career, which is what merits his inclusion in Wikipedia. AndyTheGrump (talk) 15:07, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you are splitting a wiki hair that doesn't exist. Once the subject is notable, all aspects of that subject are notable. If he has a kid, and that can be reliably sourced, then that should be included in his personal life section. (Obviously identity of the child and other informatino regarding the child may be excluded under both BLP and our child protection policies) Gaijin42 (talk) 17:33, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  Of relevance, a certain search engine puts Mr. Clash's daughter name up in 48 size font when you search "Kevin Clash daughter". Clash has also talked to NYC Dads about being a father, and she's appeared on a Being Elmo red carpet with him. That said, her tweets are protected, so it's evident that she's trying to lead as private of a life as she can, as the daughter of a actor/producer/director/author/documentary subject.  --  Zanimum (talk) 17:43, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: On a related but separate note, she's not a minor, she's an adult. Whatever other concerns there might be, I'm not sure child protection policies even apply. Just stating so we're all on the same page. --Tenebrae (talk) 19:08, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  So is his child biologically his? 

message: What's gonna happen to Elmo if Kevin is leaving the show forever?! -- 134.241.28.252 (talk) 20:50, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: this is not a WP:FORUM . However Clash's understudies will take over the role. Gaijin42 (talk) 21:05, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Elmo 

message: clash talks about his early life here NPR Fresh Air -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 22:12, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  source for early life 

message: Per WP:ELNO, the external links section of an article is not meant to become a comprehensive directory of every link you can find on the internet which pertains to the topic at all; rather, it's only for a small number (three at most, but preferably no more than two) of the most directly relevant links, such as their own personal website or their profile on a database such as IMDb. Accordingly, I'm removing the following links from the external links section here. They may be readded to the article as references for article content, but aren't really useful in the external links section.
*  Archive of podcast audio.
*
*
- Bearcat (talk) 18:04, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  [fixed cite. -Wikid77 23:46, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

text: As well, just a reminder to everybody, as I've had to do considerable repair work on this: a bare URL is not an acceptable reference in a Wikipedia article. Rather, you must provide complete citation details, including the title of the article, the name of the newspaper or website it was published in and the publication date. The problem is that websites sometimes go dark or change their URL format, in which case a bare URL becomes a dead reference since it no longer links to the article — whereas if we have the proper citation information, then even if the URL dies we still have a legitimate reference. Bearcat (talk) 18:13, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: A bare URL is an acceptable reference in a Wikipedia article, just not a preferred one.  Providing all of the details is preferred, but it's not required by any means. - SudoGhost 03:52, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Bearcat, keep in mind that we were all new editors once.  Many new editors are editing in good faith, but they get reverted for not citing a source, so they come back and provide a source.  They aren't necessarily familiar with all the "Cite" templates (or the complicated syntaxt required to understand them), so they just paste in a bare URL.  I realize this creates tedious cleanup for those of us who are more experienced editors, but a user comes to a page, sees something is incorrect (or missing) and tries to help.  I'd suggest providing a link to the Cite web Template on an article's talk page when you find a problem would probably be more helpful than simply reprimanding users.  Likewise, with "External links" sections.  I've noticed that many editors will simply tack references into the "External links" section of articles because that's the easiest thing they know how to do.  I'd personally rather they do that, so that future editors can come along and use them to source the article, rather than leaving it a "stub" in perpetuity.  While I agree that far too many links get tacked into the "External links" sections of articles, I'm not aware of a limit for how many there should be and often there are more than two that are useful.  For example: The Archive of American Television interviews are invaluable and, more often than not, are far more useful to someone researching a subject than a link to their website or IMDb.  In fact, I'm tempted to add it back to the "External links" right now, but I'll wait and see if anyone else has an opinion before I do. --- Crakkerjakk (talk) 10:01, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: given the current high visibility of the subject, i understand bearcats wish to have the article as presentable as we can. while there is still a lot of news popping up, we could post a hidden message in the external links section asking editors not to leave a link there, but have them place it here on the talk page with a note about what content it has so that the community can incorporate it into the article.-- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 13:42, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links 

message: *http://www.eonline.com/news/366082/kevin-clash-facing-second-lawsuit-and-a-book-over-teen-sex-abuse-allegations
*http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/elmo-hit-underage-sex-allegation-article-1.1208359
Not ready for the article yet, but looks like more to come :(
Gaijin42 (talk) 15:25, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Which demonstrates the need for us to wait until this story is over, and not to rush to judgment about every news story that comes out about the scandal. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 17:21, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It's unclear what these lawsuits allege in terms of damages.  Voluntarily using a gay meetup phone chat line and then voluntarily engaging in sexual acts doesn't seem like a civil cause of action to me.  We need to wait until there are much more in depth sources available to give these lawsuits context.  Gigs (talk) 18:38, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: If they were underage at the time, then they (legally) lacked the capacity to give consent. #2 is claiming emotial harm from being unprepared to deal with the ramifications of a 16 year old having a relationship with a 30 year old, and that he only recently realized this (after the first allegation). This does seem like a very weak argument to me, and I think the suits are unlikely to go anywhere (except possibly settled via hush money), but that doesn't fix things for Clash if the allegations are true (regardless of the motivations for them coming forward). fortunately for clash I think he will be immune from any potential criminal issues, as the statute of limitations for lesser offenses (I think its unlikely voluntary acts would be counted as 1st degree) is 5 years after turning 18, which I believe has passed for all the accusers thus far. Gaijin42 (talk) 18:54, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: This discussion makes me uncomfortable on so many levels, but mostly because it seems like it's moving into WP:FORUM territory.  I remind you all that this isn't the place to speculate about possible ramifications and what legal consequences may or may not occur. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 20:02, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  3rd accuser/book 

message: As promised/threatened, I have completed re-writing this article.  It wasn't the most fun I've ever had in editing Wikipedia.  Well, that's not true: I still need to improve the lead, which I will do tomorrow.  I believe that it's more balanced and that its content no longer stresses the allegations against Clash and his resignation.  I feel, however, that I need to explain some edits, especially regarding the newly-named "Resignation from Sesame Workshop" subsection.
*I used three main sources in improving this article: Clash's autobiography, his interview with the Archive of American Television, and Being Elmo.  You may think that the article is too top-heavy in its use of these sources, but they really are the best main sources regarding the subject.  On another editor's suggestion, I included "Event occurs at...", so it looks like I'm using more sources that I really do.  It seemed the best way to handle sourcing the interview and documentary. 
*In order to make the "Career" section more comprehensive, I used Muppet Wiki as a source.  I understand that wikis aren't the most reliable sources, but in this instance, I weighed comprehensiveness more heavily than reliability.  I believe that doing so shows good judgment, and it's not like this article will ever be a featured article, anyway.  (Perhaps a GA, though, and GAC tends to be more lenient with sourcing if it's necessary.)
*I removed the parts that weren't sourced, mostly in the "Career" section and replaced it with better-sourced information.  I think it's a much-improved article as a result.
*I renamed the section discussing the allegations and resignation to "Resignation from Sesame Workshop" and moved it to the "Career" section.  I think it's a better title and less lurid.  I also streamlined the sources, including the ones that seemed to summarize the events and removing sources like TMZ that aren't reliable.  I know that I stated above that we need to be less strict about sources, but I think that for this section we need to be as strict as we can.  
*I removed the undue weight tag, because I believe the current version of this article no longer weighs more heavily about Clash's resignation.
I hope that my edits and changes satisfies all, and I can go on to other things now.  Discuss please, as always. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 00:50, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re-vamp 

message: No major new revelations, just 4th accuser. Includes claim of transport across state lines of a minor, which would carry some heavier penalty
*http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/tv/bs-ae-clash-fourth-underage-sex-20121210,0,4616270.story
* http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/10/elmo-sex-scandal-fourth-allegation-for-kevin-clash_n_2271111.html
also looks like a movie project Clash was involved with was canned
* http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/06/kevin-clash-sex-scandal-warner-bros-pulls-developing-film_n_2253007.html
Gaijin42 (talk) 20:51, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Which is why I worked so hard to improve this article, because it's sure to have more traffic as we go along.  I recommend not adding anything new until a little time passes, but I doubt that my advice will be followed. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 00:28, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  4th accuser 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Kevin Clash. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121204150509/http://www.denverpost.com/entertainment/ci_22033336/elmo-actor-kevin-clash-resigns-amid-sex-allegation to http://www.denverpost.com/entertainment/ci_22033336/elmo-actor-kevin-clash-resigns-amid-sex-allegation
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Kevin Clash. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130624215733/http://www.washjeff.edu/news/commencement-ceremony-celebrates-washington-jefferson-college%E2%80%99s-class-2012 to http://www.washjeff.edu/news/commencement-ceremony-celebrates-washington-jefferson-college%E2%80%99s-class-2012
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Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 07:38, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Shouldn't a category be added because of these accusations? I'd do it myself but I don't seem to be able to pick wich one. PsychoPinball (talk) 16:40, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: People in the U.S. are supposedly considered innocent until proven guilty. —ADavidB 17:58, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, that's true but still... It is a pretty well known fact that "Elmo" did do some bad stuff and there is no category included in the article that points that out... PsychoPinball (talk) 18:46, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Accusations of child abuse