Talk:Ancient Greek dialects

message: The claim is made that Tsaconian is the only modern greek dialect descended from Doric Greek. What about Griko spoken in southern Italy? Yannos 04:12, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tsaconian 

message: What about the repeated listing of Ancient Macedonian in the different classification schemes according to Risch, Thumb, Porzig, Buck, and Heubeck? Can anyone confirm that all these authors actually treat Macedonian as a dialect in their classifications? I very much doubt that. If not, we'd be misquoting them rather severely, and it should be deleted from those sections. Lukas (T.|@) 08:26, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: P.S. I now see the whole inclusion of Macedonian was only recently added by User:Asteraki. While I do agree that some mentioning of Macedonian in this article is legitimate, I have rather heavy doubts about the appropriateness of the way it's presently handled. Lukas (T.|@) 08:30, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

text: [via edit conflict] they do not. This was a single edit by  which I am reverting now. XMK is not recognized as a Greek dialect by authorities, just live with it. The verdict is that there is simply not enough information to tell, so except for Macedonian nationalist of either couleur, the question is really moot. dab (ᛏ) 08:32, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: we can link XMK from the see also, with the comment "classification undecided" or something. That's as far as it goes, this is not the article's scope. dab (ᛏ) 08:33, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, that's fine with me. If anyone finds something in the literature to the effect that if Macedonian was Greek it would belong most closely to this or that group (Northwestern or whatever), then that would certainly deserve a mentioning, right? There seems to be something in the Greek linguistic literature to that effect (Chatzidakis, Babiniotis...). Lukas (T.|@) 08:47, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: well, as we have discussed ad nauseam on the XMK article, there are some people who suggest  classification of XMK as Doric/NW-Greek. This is an XMK-internal debate, however. It could be mentioned here, it could be mentioned on NW Greek, but it is not part of a "notable" classification scheme of Greek dialects, it is rather an appendix to these schemes by people who are dying to see XMK classified as Greek. Such sentiments have nothing to do with linguistics. Linguistically, there are really two possibilities, (a) XMK may be subsumed under Doric/NW Greek, in which case it is subsumed in these listings, or (b) XMK is a sort of 'para-Greek', descended not from Proto-Greek but a close relative, in which case it does not fall into the scope of this article. dab (ᛏ) 09:46, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

text: AFAIK, there are officially 2 scholars that in 2012 that concluded a Macedonian dialect of Greek did exist. Whether that is THE Macedonian language linguists are looking for or not is not certain. What is certain at the moment is that a variant of Greek, was spoken in Macedon and that variant does not strictly belong to the already known Greek dialects. I am trying to pull out some material on that specific issue, but I have been short of time. I do agree with the comment above in general. The Macedonian language issue is treatened with caution that is close to parania sometimes. It should be enough to be clear on the fact that there are skeptics on the issue and maybe put a question mark on the possition of the language or dialect. Fkitselis (talk) 13:20, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Macedonian 

message: Could people interested in this article please have a look at a discussion I instigated at Talk:Greek language, regarding a proposed restructuring of the whole series of Greek-related language articles. Thanks! Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:28, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Greek language article series 

message: prehistory and dialect continuum See if you can use these somewhere.Megistias 14:17, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prehistory and dialects 

message: The article at present reads:
:According to some scholars, Tsakonian is the only modern Greek dialect that descends from Doric rather than the Koine.Medieval and modern Greek By Robert Browning Page 124   (1983) Others believe it to be the descendant of the local Doric-influenced variant of the Koine.
I am no expert, but I wonder whether this has been confused with the status of Southern Italian Greek, where there is indeed such a debate. If so, perhaps the true situation is that no one doubts that Tsakonian is descended from Doric, and that the dispute is whether it is the only dialect so descended. That is, some scholars would also include Italo-Greek as a Doric dialect, while others regard Italo-Greek as being a slightly Doricised Koine, thus leaving Tsakonian as the only true Doric dialect. There are sources for this in the article on Griko language. Does anyone actually think that Tsakonian too is a form of Koine? Any information welcome. --Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) (talk) 12:57, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Now modified in accordance with the Browning book cited. --Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) (talk) 16:02, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Doric or Koine origin for Tsakonian

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Greek dialect, possibly of the Northwestern group in particular,Michael Meier-Brügger, Indo-European linguistics, Walter de Gruyter, 2003, p.28, on Google booksRoisman, Worthington, 2010, "A Companion to Ancient Macedonia", Chapter 5: Johannes Engels, "Macedonians and Greeks", p. 95:"This (i.e. Pella curse tablet) has been judged to be the most important ancient testimony to substantiate that Macedonian was a north-western Greek and mainly a Doric dialect"."...but we may tentatively conclude that Macedonian is a dialect related to North-West Greek.", Olivier Masson, French linguist, “Oxford Classical Dictionary: Macedonian Language”, 1996.: "...<<Macedonian Language>> de l'Oxford Classical Dictionary, 1996, p. 906: <<Macedonian may be seen as a Greek dialect, characterized by its marginal position and by local pronunciation (like Βερενίκα for Φερενίκα etc.)>>."
:The suggestion of a "Hellenic" group with two branches, in this context, represents the idea that Macedonian was not simply a dialect within Greek but a "sibling language" outside the group of Greek varieties proper as suggested by B. Joseph (2001): "Ancient Greek". In: J. Garry et al. (eds.) Facts about the World's Major Languages: An Encyclopedia of the World's Major Languages, Past and Present. More, other approaches describe Macedonian as an unclassified Paleo-Balkan language. For more see: Brixhe C., Panayotou A. (1994), "Le Macédonien", in Bader, F. (ed.), Langues indo-européennes, Paris:CNRS éditions, 1994, pp 205–220.Jingiby (talk) 14:51, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Greek Dialect  

message: I can't work out a way to find Ancient Greek works categorized by dialect. For instance A True Story is as far as I know written in Attic Greek, but it doesn't even mention it on the article's page. Ideally, there would be category for Works in Attic Greek, Works in Koine Greek or Works in Doric Greek etc, where you could find all the relevant works.  --RaymondHatstand (talk) 14:17, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Mr. Hatstand, you can't find them because they are not there. The great majority of ancient Greek literature is in Attic or koine, or more generally "east Greek" if you well; that is, not west Greek. They are the one that had the literary tradition, as opposed to the country villages. Right away I can see you are going to ask, how do we know what they are? The modern dialectology is based on inscriptions, thousands of them, more turning up every day. All the works on dialects cited abpve have sections containing sample inscriptions. I have to tell you, those works are not for beginners. This outstanding article is a good beginner article. If we go choking it up with inscriptions it will not only be long and tedious but it won't be for beginners any more. Ciao. If you are going to study the dialects you have a long road ahead. Can't waste time criticising us.Botteville (talk) 22:27, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: What an unpleasant response. I don't think a single category at the bottom of the page would 'choking it up'. Do the categories at the bottom of this page choke it up? "Can't waste time criticising us" - who do you think you are? - RaymondHatstand (talk) 20:40, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Works categorized by dialect