Talk:Arts and Crafts movement

message: I own a craftsman bungalow in Grant Park (Atlanta) and am attempting restoration with limited funds; a slow but steady process.  I love the clean lines and simple artistry of solid heart pine carpentry.  I'm looking to share resources, salvage goods sources, and tips and techniques with others out there.  I'm learning as I go along, reading a book or two, and genuinely trying to get this right.  Please post a response if interested.
Michael Beavers
Does garden design form a part of this movement?KRS 17:59, 24 Aug 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: Gertrude Jekyll's gardens are Arts and Crafts classics. In fact the idea of a "cottage garden" is allied to the movement. Wetman 21:05, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Old comments

message: We're not permitted this recently-deleted phrase—too pat, anyway, just as it was— so would someone with a good grasp of the intellectual atmosphere of non-rigorous socialist-tending concepts and feelings espoused in the Arts and Crafts movement please give us a paragraph on Arts and Crafts and socialism? Maybe with some evocative quotes. It mustn't employ the word "sentimental". Thank you. --Wetman 22:18, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: "Sentimental socialism"

message: Currently this word appears twice in the article.  I am not sure what it is supposed to mean in this context.  Please elaborate. pmr 10:56, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Substituted "eclectic revival of historic styles". --Wetman 21:57, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Historicism 

message: In the beginning of this article it is stated that the term Arts and Crafts movement is often used to denote the style between the Art Nouveau and Art Deco eras, and in the Influences section essentially that ACM principles inspired Art Nouveau. Please clarify. Sergivs-en 00:18, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Art Nouveau 

message: "Its best-known practitioners were William Morris, Charles Robert Ashbee, T. J. Cobden Sanderson, Walter Crane, Nelson Dawson, Phoebe Anna Traquair, Herbert Tudor Buckland, Charles Rennie Mackintosh, Christopher Dresser, Edwin Lutyens, Ernest Gimson, William Lethaby, Edward Schroeder Prior, Frank Lloyd Wright, Gustav Stickley, Christopher Whall and artists in the Pre-Raphaelite movement."
A thoughtful opening encapsulation of the Arts and Crafts movement and its progress could weave this thread of names into some text. --Wetman 19:13, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: A thinly-disguised list

message: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Arts_and_Crafts_movement&oldid=172080272 The 13:28, 17 November 2007 81.109.194.159 version] of this article was translated into Chinese Wikipedia.--Philopp (talk) 13:51, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation into Chinese Wikipedia 

message: The article states that there were "socialist undertones" to the movement, too vague a phrase. It should say who was a socialist. Morris was certainly a socialist but Ruskin most certainly was not, he was a conservative.  Marshall46 (talk) 14:51, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed this: "There were also socialist undertones to this movement—most explicitly, and primarily, in Great Britain—in that another primary aim was for craftspeople to derive satisfaction from what they did. This satisfaction, the proponents of this movement felt, was totally denied in the industrialised processes inherent in compartmentalised machine production."  It has no source and it makes no sense.  Socialism is about public ownership of capital, not about opposition to industry.  I have replaced it with a brief mention of Morris's socialism.  Marshall46 (talk) 17:19, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Socialism

message: This article is a long way from B class.  It lacks inline citations, is far from comprehensive and it needs a lot of cleanup.  I have change it to Start Class.  Marshall46 (talk) 17:39, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  B class? 

message: I deleted the statement that said the arts and crafts movement negated historicism. If historicism in art means the imitation of past styles, then the arts and crafts movement most certainly did not negate it. Marshall46 (talk) 15:05, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Negating historicism" 

message: with 1910 as a starting date for the movement in the US.  But am not sure that I can fond a source here (work).  when I get home, if it is still annoying me, I'll do something.  Unless YOu do it first.  Einar aka 98.23.211.46 (talk) 22:15, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: No, those dates would be completely wrong - although I think it's actually unclear wording, and the point intended was to illustrate the gap between Art Nouveau and Art Deco (vague, and obviously 1925). It needs fixing though. If "US Craftsman" is to mean "Gustav Stickley", then that's 1895(-ish) to around 1915. Earlier if you include Lloyd Wright's Craftsman phase, maybe a later start around 1900 if you're picky. Andy Dingley (talk) 00:16, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Well I am not that picky, but if Boston had a A&C society in 1890, that's going to be what i change it to. After getting a good source, of course.  Einar, signed on this time as Carptrash (talk) 00:57, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Can we have some inline citations for the section on the USA? Marshall46 (talk) 08:22, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  I am not happy  

message: I have just trimmed a couple of the external links in this article. More should be deleted as it is looking like a bit of a link farm. WP:ELNO has some good guidance on what shouldn't be linked. Of particular note is the first of the listed criteria - that the external link should provide extra information over and above what the article would contain were it to be of featured article standard. Just because a website has interesting info on it, it doesn't mean it should be linked. If external link is selling any product or service related to the subject of the article then it should never be linked - spam should not be tolerated on Wikipedia. --Simple Bob (talk) 13:47, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Whilst I'd agree with you that there are bad links that need removal, there's no blanket policy against links to commercial sites. The relevant comment is only 5th in the lists, and even then it states "Links to web pages that primarily exist to sell products or services," Note that it says "pages" and not "sites". If a commercial site that exists to sell products also has some background information on other pages, there's no reason not to link to those pages. Andy Dingley (talk) 14:53, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links - preventing link farms 

message: I have deleted the following sentence from the section on the United States: "In the United States, the Arts and Crafts Movement took on a distinctively more bourgeois flavor than in Europe."  There is no reference given to support this statement, which seems to be opinion or original research.  Given William Morris' class background and the popularity of Arts and Crafts homes among working class and lower middle class Americans of 100 years ago, I don't think that this is an accurate observation at all. Cullen328 (talk) 22:02, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed.  The section on the USA needs more work.  Marshall46 (talk) 09:07, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Good. It's clearly a reference to the current Bungalow revival, which is mostly being applied to fancy country homes. This article can certainly cover that, but it's clearly not focused on what A&C is turning into today, but the  formation and history of the movement. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ɖ⊝כ⊙þ  Contrib.  03:43, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deletion of unsupported statement 

message: TFOWR 16:34, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use of British Isles 

message: I noticed that the lead image was very dark and shadowy, and as a result, doesn't seem to convey much. I would replace it, however, the breadth of the movement means that there are quite a few options of good images, and many potential things to represent it. Any thoughts on what should head it? Morgan Riley (talk) 20:17, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, and in fact most of the objects that can be seen aren't Arts & Crafts at all, but Jacobean & Georgian furniture, or repro, an oriental rug, fussy Victorian china etc etc. Johnbod (talk) 12:54, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: In which case it doesn't illustrate the article, and I have deleted it. Marshall46 (talk) 15:02, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead image replacement? 

message: I have re-organised this section so as to bring together similar material in one section.  It needs to be edited by someone who is familiar with the North American movement.  Marshall46 (talk) 09:14, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  North America 

message: The architectural examples section ought to represent a concise list of the most notable examples, which is clearly not the case at present - it needs some work. There are of course thousands of buildings associated with the Arts and Crafts or loosely built in a related style, but the aim here is to give a clear idea of what the style actually consists of. Ideally every entry on the list should refer to an article on Wikipedia, or failing that at least be referenced to back up the claim to notability, and so that readers can follow it up to see what the building looks like. I'm not sure of the exact rule, but WP:Notability is a start. I removed The Lodge, East Suffolk Park because the only references I can find are mirrored from this article (Mindmeister, Answers.com etc.) and give no details. A map search shows this building is probably in Edinburgh, but I could not find any mention of it elsewhere. ProfDEH (talk) 07:52, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I restored this per WP:REDLINK – we should include and link entries on this list whether they currently have WP articles or not. If you're sure that the building just doesn't warrant its place on the list, then I'm happy to see it go. Andy Dingley (talk) 09:08, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  I found East Suffolk Park, Edinburgh, on Google streetview.  The buildings look neo-Georgian rather than Arts and Crafts, so in the absence of any sources it does not belong on the list.  Pelarmian (talk) 17:51, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

text: Agreed, it's Gothic revival not A&C. Be bold - delete it. Pelarmian (talk) 23:19, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Pelarmian (talk) 20:25, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable examples 

message: I think this article really needs an encapsulation of what the Arts and Crafts movement was as the first paragraph. E.g., what sorts of objects it was applied to, what the aesthetic philosophy was in regard to the creation of those objects. As it is now, it is taken up mainly with names and dates and locations that dance around the heart of the definition, and will be as meaningless to someone without prior knowledge as the term "Arts and Crafts Movement" itself is. And then the first section is more history. It is quite difficult to find what "Arts and Crafts Movement" actually refers to in this article.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Folding Chair (talk • contribs) 01:55, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: * Quite so. Go ahead an do it. Hafspajen (talk) 01:57, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Buried Lede 

message: I moved the following links here from the External links section. These might have use as sources to support article content but they are inappropriate for the EL section. 
* 
* What is Arts and Crafts
* Research resources on the Arts and Crafts at the Winterthur Library
* Hewn and Hammered dedicated to discussion of the Arts & Crafts movement in art, architecture & design
Jojalozzo 00:14, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links 

message: One of the main ideas of the ACM, but not covered in this article.  Needs doing. Pelarmian (talk) 13:57, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  The unity of the arts 

message: I removed the passage without citation about Casa Cuseni, Taormina, which looked like advertising.  Pelarmian (talk) 09:36, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Casa Cuseni 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: There is a great deal of information here about William Morse.  I realize his importance to the Arts and Crafts Movement, but couldn't this be condensed here and if readers want to know more about him they can go to his page?  This article is already too long without putting duplicate information about Morse here as well. Rissa, Guild of Copy Editors  (talk) 05:18, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I assume you mean William Morris. His contribution to the ACM is already condensed and couldn't be shorter. Is the article too long?  It's about 8,000 words and is far from complete - see here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arts_and_Crafts_movement#To_do_list . It was a coherent movement in Britain between 1880 and 1920 and if you split the article into sections about different periods, different media, different organisations or different artists, the reader won't get the sense of its profound influence on design and taste in that period. However, it could be split by country, since the story in Britain was different from that in the USA and on the continent. I'm reverting your tag re: inline citations because, although certain sections are lacking, the article as a whole is well referenced. I'll leave the tag about length subject to discussions here. Pelarmian (talk) 13:15, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Looked again - some of the Morris info could be pruned, you are right. Too busy just at the moment. Pelarmian (talk) 13:24, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Pelarmian (talk)
Removed too long tag - article is only 60k, guidelines provide articles over 100k to be split and sections summarized. If anyone has an inclination to create separate articles for various A&C movements by country or to expand sections into separate articles, then they may summarize the section in this article with a main article link.  Cheers Gmcbjames (talk) 05:53, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  William Morse 

message: The duration of the movement was altered from "1880 to 1910" to "1850 to 1900". I reverted it. Such dates are approximate, but the source given for the latter dates (Triggs, "Chapters in the history of the arts and crafts movement"  doesn't mention them. Pelarmian (talk) 14:29, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Duration 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I have about 61 past issues of American Bungalow magazine, #2 up to #70. (some missing in the sequence however)
is anyone interested? what are they worth?
thank you.
DW  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8800:6081:CF00:C817:31A:D3A3:3290 (talk) 22:20, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  american bungalow magazines