Talk:Ken Keyes Jr.

message: The material on the last portion of Keyes' life becomes vague because this period postdates his autobiography, from which most of the material was drawn. Any assistance in filling in dates and details would be appreciated. --Gary D 09:14, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Help with the final years

message: The Hundredth Monkey, his book on nuclear disarmament, was not copyrighted as Keyes wanted to spread the word as much as possible. The full text is available from http://kloudjin.blogspot.com/2007/01/ken-keyes-hundredth-monkey.html.
121.44.119.3 22:38, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I personally own the Esperanto translation of the book, which clearly states that the first English edition was published in january 1982 by Vision Books, Coos Bay, Oregon 97420, USA. There is no doubt about the date of first publication. --ThomasPusch (talk) 10:30, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: The Hundredth Monkey

message: Hello; Are you still there?
I am sending an excerpt from a letter I wrote to the authors of a introductory psychology text.  What you may find of interest is that Carl Sagan was a contemporary of Ken Keyes Jr. and fellow worker in the movement for nuclear disarmament.  Sagan's criticism was of the argument Ken made in "The Hundredth Monkey" as to how an idea spread from one monkey in the colony to the other, noting that Ken had jumped to a conclusion sans evidence.  Sagan supplied further information that explained how the learning actually took place, at least on the level of monkey see, monkey do.
I am not here to criticize Ken Keyes Jr.; In fact, I am a big fan and have been for many years.
I am not at this late hour unable to search through all of Carl Sagan’s books to find the quote.  If someone out there also recalls Sagan’s critique, please reply.  It would be a nice addition to have a link.  The two shared an interest in nuclear disarmament.
If I recall correctly, Ken Keyes Jr. stated in “The Handbook to Higher Consciousness” that the main source for his hypothesis was the Buddha’s Four Noble Truths.  If you look in the same book’s appendix, there is a section explaining Ken’s take on the cause of unnecessary suffering, and how it can be overcome.  If you replaced the phrase “emotion-backed demands” with “desire” in that appendix, you would have what is widely considered the essence of the Buddha’s message.
The excerpts follow:
_________________________________
I will borrow the phrase “emotion-backed demands” from Ken Keyes Jr.2 to replace “desire” which usually appears in the text below.  Drilling down to mindfulness section:
I.	Suffering is a concomitant potential of sentient existence.
II.	The origin of at least some self-imposed suffering is emotion-backed demands.
III.	Some egregious sorts of suffering can be extinguished by abandoning greed, hatred, and delusion.
IV.	Methodical attempts to minimize self-imposed suffering can be constructed on the following paradigm:
2 [You may have heard of the late Ken Keyes Jr., a sort of philosopher at best.  Carl Sagan, in one his numerous books, critiqued Keyes’ assertions from The Hundredth Monkey on rational and evidentiary grounds.  Late at night (02/01/2011) I read your article about EMDR (eye movement desensitization reprocessing) near the end of your text.  Toward the end of his life, Keyes was promoting some sort of personal growth seminar product involving rapid eye movement.  I wonder if there was a connection.  In any case, both Ken Keyes Jr. and Francine Shapiro, the inventor of EMDR, missed the point that psychology is science.  Let the buyer beware.]  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Araktsu (talk • contribs) 06:37, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Hundredth Monkey 2 

message: He had four wives, and the article has a full name for only the first one.  What are the surnames of wives 2, 3, and 4?  Bonita, Penny, Lydia?   What was Bonita's age?  "Much-younger" is not good enough for encyclopedic detail, though apparently the age discrepancy was sufficiently significant or controversial to merit mention.  I found a reference to "sixteen years younger" at Answers.com, but the article there appears to be nothing more than an earlier version of the article here.  Someone decided to make the years non-specific; why?  I hesitate to reverse that choice without knowing if it was made because the Answers.com version is unreliable, or what.  I have access to the archives of TIME magazine and the New York Times, but Keyes is not mentioned in either.  Associated Press obits reprinted at the external link also do not fully identify the multiple wives.  Also, the unnamed "she" who allegedly (mis)managed the Cornucopia location should be named, or the material should be summarized as something like "managerial differences" without going into detail about a mysterious, unnamed-but-specific individual.  -- Lisasmall 14:36, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Help with wives' names

message: Hello; Are you still there?
Below is an note about Ken Keyes Jr.  What you may find of interest is reference to Carl Sagan's criticism of the argument Ken made in "The Hundredth Monkey" as to how an idea spread from one monkey in the colony to the other monkeys, noting that Ken had jumped to a conclusion sans evidence.  Sagan supplied further information that explained how the learning actually took place, at least on the level of monkey see, monkey do.
(Sagan was a contemporary of Ken Keyes Jr. and equally interested in the movement for nuclear disarmament.)
I am not here to criticize Ken Keyes Jr.; In fact, I am a big fan and have been for many years.
I am not at this late hour unable to search through all of Carl Sagan’s books to find the quote.  If someone out there also recalls Sagan’s critique, please reply.  It would be a nice addition to have a link.  The two shared an interest in nuclear disarmament.
The excerpt follows:
_________________________________
2 [You may have heard of the late Ken Keyes Jr., a sort of philosopher at best.  Carl Sagan, in one his numerous books, critiqued Keyes’ assertions from "The Hundredth Monkey" on rational and evidentiary grounds.  Late at night (02/01/2011) I read your article about EMDR (eye movement desensitization reprocessing) near the end of your text.  Toward the end of his life, Keyes was promoting some sort of personal growth seminar product involving rapid eye movement.  I wonder if there was a connection.  In any case, both Ken Keyes Jr. and Francine Shapiro, the inventor of EMDR, missed the point that psychology is science.  Let the buyer beware.]  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Araktsu (talk • contribs) 06:47, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ken Keyes Jr., Carl Sagan, EMDR