Talk:Byrne

message: With this edit an anonymous editor recently removed the COA image and a sentence containing the clan motto, with the edit summary "rm Bucket shop (heraldry) misinformation". I reverted and added a reference for the motto. Today the same IP repeated the removal, despite provision of a citation, with the edit summary "Edit was explained". I have now restored and added a reference for the COA with the following summary: "add commented-out citation for coat of arms (if uncommented its display conflicts with the template). Please do not remove without taking to Talk". If anyone knows how to add the reference for the image so that it displays properly, please make the necessary edit. --gråb whåt you cån (talk) 12:36, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The citations you added were not to reliable sources. Regardless, there's is no such thing as a fmaily coat of arms in Irish heraldry. A place that sells such purported arms is known as a Bucket shop (heraldry). 89.100.207.51 (talk) 13:45, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The edits you made were to long-standing content, and without any attempt to garner consensus. Kindly provide WP:RS for your assertions above, or revert your own edit. As to your edit summary "Edit was explained. Do not call me a vandal just because I just know more about Irish heraldry than you do, dickhead. Family arms do not exist in Irish heraldry", you should be aware that it's not about what you or I know, but by what can be reliably supported. "rm Bucket shop (heraldry) misinformation" is not an explanation. And nobody called you anything, so kindly refrain from personal attacks. I don't need to repeat what has already been posted by several editors on your user talk page. --gråb whåt you cån (talk) 14:53, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: How long standing the content was is entirely irrelevant. Reliable sources need to be provided for content. Not for the removal of content that is unsopported by RS's. rm Bucket shop (heraldry) misinformation is an explanation.  here you called me a vandal. Vandal is a much more serious attack than dickhead, so if you're going to issue personal attacks you need to be prepared to get as good as you give. 89.100.207.51 (talk) 08:12, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I have now reinserted the content you have repeatedly removed without consensus, despite your edits being reverted by another editor too. I have also added a RS reference for both the arms image and the motto. Note the final warning posted to your talk page: "This is your only warning; if you make personal attacks on other people again, as you did at Byrne, you may be blocked from editing without further notice. Comment on content, not on other contributors or people. It is entirely inappropriate to call another editor a "dickhead", as you did in an edit summary at Byrne. Don't do that again. Personal attacks of that degree are taken very seriously." --gråb whåt you cån (talk) 23:30, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: As the reference referred to individual's arms, not to family's, I have removed the content again. You will not be able to find a reliable source for your assertion, as that is not how Irish heraldry works. Arms are granted to individuals, not to everyone who happens to have the same name. If I were granted a coat of arms, they would be born by me and my descendants. Not by my brothers and their descendants, regardless of our shared surname. 89.100.207.51 (talk) 12:04, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  Anonymous editor, you are continuing to edit against wp:consensus. In the summary to your latest edit here you state, "Rm OR. Not in source given." which indicates that you do not understand the concept of wp:or in a WP context. The content you removed is indeed in the source given. If you contend that it should not be applied here, then please provide wp:rs to support your contention here, so that this can be discussed with a view to finding consensus. This is how Wikipedia operates, and if you wish to contribute you need to abide by the project guidelines. --gråb whåt you cån (talk) 13:34, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Consensus does not override broader policy such as WP:NOR. Please see WP:CONLIMITED. The content is not in the source given. The source refers to those arms specifically belonging to a man by the name of Fiagh Mac Hugh O'Byrne. Not to everyone named O'Byrne. In Irish heraldry, arms are granted to individuals, not to names.89.100.207.51 (talk) 14:43, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

text: The source you provided is "Fairbairn's book of crests". "Crest (heraldry)"  refers to the top part of a coat of arms. It is commonly misused to refer to the entire coat of arms. Any source that uses the term is obviously not an RS. 89.100.207.51 (talk) 22:40, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

text: No, I am not. I am removing OR. None of it is meant to be there at all. There is no such thing as a family coat of arms in Irish heraldry. 89.100.207.51 (talk) 23:08, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent edits removing coat-of-arms image and motto info