Talk:Clement of Ohrid

message: "... according to his hagiography by Theophylact, Clement was born in Macedonia."
I was unable to verify the above assertion through available translations of Theophylact's text.  Neither that Theophylact mentioned Clement's birthplace.  Therefore, I suggest that direct quotations be provided from the abovementioned work -- or from any other original source not mere speculations by modern historians  -- testifying that Clement was indeed born in Macedonia.  If not, then the above assertion should be removed.  If someone were to provide a valid quotation of Chomatian's testimony that Clement was a born Macedonian, that could be included instead. Apcbg 12:17, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would like to return to this issue again. If the birthplace of Clement is not mentioned, than why should that statement stay? Can annyone source the statement about Clement's birthplace? Bomac 14:39, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clement's birthplace 

message: And of course fellow wikipedians, as always when an article somehow related to Republic of Macedonia if you insist is in question we always see the point of view ONLY from the perspectives of the official historiographies of it's neighbouring countries (?!) like: Republic of Bulgaria and/or Greece and/or Albania and/or Serbia but never the POV of the RoM side. Excuse me for my cynicism please, but a fact is that: he was Kliment OHRIDSKI. Ohrid is in Republic of Macedonia where the Ohrid Literary school was opened, one of the oldest Universities in the world that gave litteracy and education to all the slavic nations and which is still keeping Clement's traditions by gathering slavists from all around the world on various symposiums, seminars etc. that are held there. These are facts accepted by the whole world, while of course you can question  St. Clement's "ethnicity" (though it's quite questionable itself was there really any "nationality" in this modern sence in those early medieval times?!),you can also argue over his place of birth and so on and so on, but a fact is a fact. OHRID is where he accomplished his life achievments and thus got the name OHRIDSKI, Ohrid was the University center that gave litteracy to Bulgarians, Russians and all the other slavic nations. So, without any need for an 'academic debate' and by any possible standards St. Clement from OHRID belongs to the history of Republic of Macedonia and thus the RoM perspective of these topics should be absolutely taken into account.--Vbb-sk-mk 01:02, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have any recent (after the dissolution of Yugoslavia) sources supporting your statement about Serbia?  Apcbg 06:16, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

text: yeah yeah blah blah again with the infantile 'argument' that Macedonians were/are invented by 'someone'. Lemme guess: Tito and/or the Comintern, amirite? :)) 77.248.84.228 (talk) 21:52, 17 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  I protest 

message: Stop deleting my edits! Sveti Climent is a saint celebrated by all Orthodox Slavic People, and it is meaningless to label him as a Bulgarian Saint!
In fact the reference link on this article says that he is a Slavic saint, developed the medieval Slavic literature, while working at the Bulgarian court!
And remember that Slavic is not equal to Bulgarian!
The same goes for Sveti Naum —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Martin taleski (talk • contribs) 02:43, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes but he was an ethnic Bulgarian.   /FunkyFly.talk_  02:45, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not true. There were certainly Bulgarians at that time and he was one of them.   /FunkyFly.talk_  02:49, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Reverting this page without sources, against consensus will only get you blocked.   /FunkyFly.talk_  02:54, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

text: This page is not saying anything about ethnicity.   /FunkyFly.talk_  02:59, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Again, no mention of ethnicity. And by the way: one of the Seven Apostles of Bulgaria, right at the beginning.   /FunkyFly.talk_  03:06, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

text: This is just your own interpretation.   /FunkyFly.talk_  03:18, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

text: No, this is how you infantile mods abuse your editing power to push your PoV. 77.248.84.228 (talk) 21:54, 17 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  St. Climent is a saint of all the orthodox Slavs, not only Macedonians ! 

message: Obolensky about St. Clement:
"... a Slav by birth, a first - generation disciple of Cyril and Methodius: his name — Clement of Ohrid."
http://www.myriobiblos.gr/texts/english/obolensky_impact.html
Christian History Institute:
"Clement wrote over fifty books. He is considered the first Slavic writer."
http://chi.gospelcom.net/DAILYF/2002/07/daily-07-27-2002.shtml
Patron Saints:
"Student of Saint Cyril and Saint Methodius in Moravia and Panonia. Building on their work, he helped found Slavic literature and culture in Macedonia. He was the first Slavic writer, translated dozens of works, wrote a biography of Saints Cyril and Methodius, and founded the first Slavic university in Ohrid. Friend of Saint Naum. Served in the Bulgarian court. Taught from 886 to 893 at Kutmicevica, being a great influence on over 3,000 students, many of whom became priests and spread the Slavic liturgy through the region. Spiritual teacher of Saint Constantine the Presbyter. Bishop of Belica, the first organised Slav Church on the Balkan Peninsula. Bishop of Ohrid. Founded Saint Pantaleimonth's monastery."
http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintc3h.htm
Martin taleski 19:26, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources! 

message: i've also changed the references of Old Bulgarian to Old Church Slavonic. This is because Old Slavonic was common for all the Slavic Tribes at the time, especially for the Southern Slavs, who did not have no differences in the language (a situation different from the one today!).
Even the link that said Old Bulgarian was referring to the Wikipedia page for Old Church Slavonic
Martin taleski 19:40, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Language! 

message: "St. Clement Slovensky of Okhrida and companions (Greek [of Slavic descent], missionary bishop in Bulgaria, d. 916)
St. Cynllo (Welsh, 5th century)"
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=009c7F
"Died at Okhrida, Bulgaria, on July 17, 916. Probably of Slavic descent and from southern Macedonia, he became a bishop during the reign of Khan Simeon, the first Slav to become a bishop."
http://www.saintpatrickdc.org/ss/0717.htm#clem
Martin taleski 19:51, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  More Sources about his Slavic (not Bulgarian) origin! 

message: Ok since we can not solve this by ourselves, i filled for meditation... the reason for know is very specific (this article), but i think we should expand it in a general discussion to solve the Bulgarian - Macedonian history dispute that has found its place on Wikipedia!
Martin taleski 02:03, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's more like an Earth vs Republic of Macedonia history dispute. Todor→Bozhinov 08:36, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

text: By the way, why are you omitting steps from the dispute resolution process? Clearly, this discussion is not over and it's way too early for mediation (meditation???). If we really can't agree on a compromise (as it seems, we will agree), then we should invite a third party to comment and discuss with us. Only then should we resort to formal mediation. Todor→Bozhinov 17:02, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

text: It's very simple: a Bulgarian empire was so called because south Slavs there called themselves 'bulgarian' among using other words such as 'Slavs', 'Macedonians', and the like. There wasn't a separate, distinct 'Bulgarian' ethnicity yet. Afterwards, when this separate ethicity distilled itself throughout history, people (Slavs & indigenous) from Macedonia refused to accept it and continued/started calling themselves 'Macedonians' and/or 'Slavs'. But today we have (ethnic) Bulgarians abusing this very simple fact: that several centuries ago, 'bulgarian' was a synonym for 'Slavic', not for an 'ethnic Bulgarian'. And it was therefore written in lowercase, as I do here. 77.248.84.228 (talk) 21:59, 17 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Meditation! 

message: So in this article you are saying that If one teritory like Macedonia was conquered by the Bulgarian empire, all the people who are living on that teritory are becoming Bulgarians or when Aleksandar III The greath Macedonian conquered the all in that time known world, all the people on that teritory became Macedonians. I have no problem then it’s ok, because in that case all the Greeks are Macedonians and now I know why they are continuing to fignt against our name, and I don’t know what to say about Bulgarians because they didn’t exist in that time. But in some articles they say that Aleksandar is Bulgarian to. How lucky we Macedonians are. Everyone whants to be Macedonian in time when the world was called Macedonia, but now when we are small and peacefull contry everyone whants to take our history from us. I’m not surprised when Bulgarians or Greeks write articles like this one, but I’m surprised and dissapointed when other people in the world believe in the propagand against Macedonians. That is sad espesualy for the people who are not informed well like you. I’m Sorry because of my cynicism but that is how you respect us, so it’s not my fault. Pavel Kapricheski from OHRID place where Kliment Orhidski made the first university on slovenian language in the churche St. Pantelemon. Sorry about my grammar mistackes, ама јас сум Македонец и ништо друго поразлично од Александар III македонски и Свети Климент Охридски и многу други за кои што се води војна за да се вметнат во историите на нашите драги соседи и да се избришат од историјата на Македонија. За жал на сите антимакедонски пропагатори историјата на Македонија полека се враќа таму каде што припаѓа во Македонија. А особено нашата мила Грција уште малку ќе почне солзи да пушта поради фактот дека ја губи војната околу името, Македонија ќе биде секогаш тука да помогне на соседите па макар и да им дадеме марамче да си ги избришат солзите, зошто очигледно тешко им паѓа тоа што Александар повторно е тоа што отсекогаш бил Македонец. Сепак сме мирољубив и дружељубив народ. 'Bold text'
Yep, that was fun :). "But in some articles they say that Aleksandar is Bulgarian to. " - that's the first time I hear of such a thing. Are you sure you've heard it? --Laveol 17:28, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There was no bulgarian empire in the eight century in the region of Macedonia. That part of the history is all made up. Until 9th century slavs and tartars are still fighting wars. https://archive.org/details/ByzantineSourcesForHistoryOfThePeoplesOfYugoslavia  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.205.59.148 (talk) 17:43, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: the imperial therm vulgaroi stretches back to vedic aryans which called varga all the non aryan (noble)peoples. in western civilizations starts from armenians (vanand) which called vargar their tartar subjects. than romeians called vulgaroi their slavic and tartar peoples. the western word vulgaroi comes from latin vulgus (common people, crowd, raya). it's modern equivalents are german volk and international folk. so folk (or as in medieval texts vulgaroi) from macedonia, only means people from macedonia and nothing else. as well as latina vulgata doesn't mean bulgarian latin but common, spoken latin. as well as era vulgaris doesn't mean bulgarian era, but common era. as well as lactobacilus bulgaricus doesn't mean bulgarian lactobacilus, but common lactobacilus. there was never ever bulgarian ethnicity prior to 1858. the people who were called people (vulgaroi) never called themselve with that name. in hindukush they refered to themselves as sveta huna or simply pashtuns. in volga (which they called Idil) they called themselves onogur or onogundur. in balkans, people (vulgaroi) called themselves macedonians or nashinci. that imperial caste therm swings from tribe to tribe, from nation to nation, all of different ethnic origin.  i think it's time to stop this sharade.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.205.59.148 (talk) 15:25, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  BIG PROTEST FROM MACEDONIA 

message: Please, provide a reiable source abouth his birthplace. As far as I know it is unknown. Jingby (talk) 18:23, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Birthplace

message: Rather than blocking the disputants, I've reverted to the July version before this started and protected the article. If you are unable to work together as colleagues, then go to dispute resolution and have somebody babysit. Meanwhile, if there are non-contentious edits that need to be made, tell me here and I can add them in. — kwami (talk) 10:18, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: To Wisco: I see you have no intention of even starting a dialogue on the subject. You just repeat what you have already said. And the fact that you do not find your statements offensive and rude is even more worrying. I already told you that the Ottoman Empire example is silly. And you keep repeating it. Why don't we just stick to the fact that he was a human being and write this down. Have you actually read the article before starting to call people names on the talkpage? It says that Clement "was a medieval Slavic enlightener and Bulgarian scholar and writer." So we have represented both views - he was undoubtedly a Slavic enlightener and also without any doubt he was Bulgarian in the Medieval sense. There is no issue here besides the act that you want to remove a perfectly valid statement. --Laveol T 06:34, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  edit war 

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thread_title:  External links modified