Talk:Jet fuel

message: Does anyone have information on this? I heard that steel beams can't be melted by jet fuel, and I'm highly curious now. -- Kjkolb 03:09, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Steel beams

message: Just a note on sourcing, material for this page was originally taken from the article on aviation fuel. -Lommer | talk 17:30, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: I would recommend that this article be re-written.  The first sentence, stating that jet fuel is gray, is completely inaccurate.  Jet fuel is clear to straw colored, as it states later in the article, and any jet fuel that was gray would be severely contaminated.  In addition, most of the article is uncited, and the only source cited doesn't contain most of the information that is portrayed in the article.  The history of jet fuel section doesn't actually talk about the history at all, but rather discusses the composition of jet fuel.  It's a good start for the article, it just needs some revision.
Also it states "Jet A is the standard jet fuel type in the U.S. since the 1950s and is only available there".  So what do the rest of the world use?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.79.80.249 (talk) 15:02, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually most jet fuel exported from Russia etc. is "JP54" or "Colonial JP54". It is similar to "Jet A" except the the Specific Energy is 18.4 mj/kg compared to that of 42.8 mj/kg of "Jet A". Also there is a slight difference in additives.    —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.158.220.38 (talk) 00:06, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If I have read the article correctly, Jet A is used in the USA and Jet A-1 is used everywhere else, except in cold countries where Jet B is used.  Is this right?  The article is not at all clear. Biscuittin (talk) 15:49, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inaccuracies in the Jet Fuel article 

message: On 10 October, Cypoet added a "Chemical compound" attribute to the list of properties of Jet A-1 at the top of the article. Unfortunately, this addition incorrectly suggests that jet fuel is a single chemical compound, dodecane. Jet fuel is actually a complex blend of hundreds of hydrocarbons. I've taken the "Chemical compound" attribute out of the table and added a paragraph to the "Description" section of the article with a more detailed and accurate description of the actual composition, including a citation. Piperh 10:50, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chemical composition of jet fuel 

message: The lead paragraph speaks repeatedly of "Aeroplane fuel" while talking about jet fuel.  Is "Aeroplane" a British synonym for "Jet"?  Or should the relevent sections be changed to the more explicit "Jet aeroplane"?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Loren.wilton (talk • contribs) 09:34, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, keep in mind that jet fuel is also burned by turboprop and turboshaft engines. Neither are "jets", and turboshaft engines are used in helicopters, not airplanes. This is why in technical discussion we use the more accurate term "gas turbine fuel" to describe jet fuel, even though this is not the common term. Shreditor (talk) 22:25, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

text: Also, there are diesel based light aircraft that burn 'jet fuel' also.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by James shoemaker (talk • contribs) 23:37, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Does "Aeroplane" mean "Jet"?

message: I was surprised to find this claim, as diesel engines have been around for more than 100 years, and turbocharged diesel engines have been around for as long as turbocharged gasoline engines.  Furthermore, a diesel engine is less complex than a gasoline engine.  One does not have to worry about having a dual ignition system, as diesels don't use spark plugs.  The glow plugs (igniters) used are simple resistive elements which don't require RF shielding as do the gasoline engines' twin magneto system.
In short, the technology has been around for many decades.  It is not "in it's infancy."  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.25.0.207 (talk) 11:11, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I wrote that statement, so I'll take a stab at explaining it... Yes, diesel engines have been around for a long time, but very very few have found use in aircraft. As of 2008 Thielert is the only company I know of building certified aircraft diesel engines, and they're currently insolvent because of numerous customer support problems. So yes, I would call that a technology in its infancy, since it hasn't been developed to the point of becoming a significant part of the aerospace economy. I don't mean to be overly negative, here. I personally think aircraft diesel engines have great potential. They just haven't reached it... yet. Shreditor (talk) 20:58, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The German Junkers company produced a number of inline diesels for aircraft use in the 1930s, although they were heavier than the equivalent petrol engine and therefore had much poorer power-to-weight ratio, which is an important disadvantage in an aero engine. They were used mainly on flying boats such as the Bv 138 that needed the longer range possible with a diesel.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.4.57.101 (talk) 11:56, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  ...the technology is still in it's infancy...? 

message: Suggest adding that the density of JET A is 6.3 to 7.1 pounds per US gallon with a standard of 6.7 pounds per US gallon  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.43.169.213 (talk) 18:29, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Density 

message: Enough of this lamer common knowledge such as "it is a mixture of this and that". How is Jet-A fuel manufactured? Provide with hand book description of do-it-yourself Teemu Ruskeepää (talk) 08:33, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: No, I don't agree that this article should include a recipe for DIY-ers. Binksternet (talk) 16:13, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  oposed to that (citation:"Aviation fuels are often what is called 'straight run fuels,'.."), I learned from Shell that 100LL (another aviation fuel) is basicaly made from synthetic hydro-carbon molecules. That is exactly the extreme opposite from "straight run fuel". How do you explain that?
--Cosy-ch (talk) 13:08, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: 100LL is a petrol (avgas), not a jet fuel. you could put it in your car.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mycosys (talk • contribs) 21:18, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lacking actual detail 

message: This article is lacking any verification and some of it is just factually incorrect. I will attempt to clean it up over the next few days. Also bits of it need rephrasing to make it clearer Veryangrypenguin (talk) 12:57, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lacking verification and factual accuracy 

message: It should also be mentioned that water may be desirable in the jet engine in addition to hydrocarbon fuels, as a means of performance enhancement (usually in a mixture of water-alcohol, aka MW-50 injector).
Given a little extra vodka, a Mi-26 helo, officially certifed for 20 tons will lift a 27-ton frozen mammoth, as seen on National Geographic (behold the main rotor cone angle).
The problem arises when water gets mixed with hydrocarbons already in the fuel tank, however. 82.131.129.178 (talk) 18:01, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Water in jet fuel 

message: It is crucial for the article to include comparison with the Soviet fuel classification (TS-1, RT and the stuff). Soviet-designed aircraft dominate the world market and post-Soviet air forces constitute the majority of world military jets - all using Soviet fuel classification.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.133.131.171 (talk) 14:51, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: so add it  http://www.exxonmobil.com/AviationGlobal/Files/WorldJetFuelSpecifications2005.pdf contains a decent amount of info on international fuels and standards including types and availability in the CIS if you wish to add them  Mycosys (talk) 21:20, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Soviet fuel classification 

message: I am proposing that all the jet fuel articles be placed under one roof as it is unnecessary to have individual articles.--Petebutt (talk) 18:34, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal 

message: Mention how jet fuel differs from automobile fuel. Jidanni (talk) 00:02, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: it already states it is a kerosene Mycosys (talk) 21:22, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  vs. automobile fuel 

message: Been researching the Flashpoint of Aviation (Jet) Fuel...
Obviously depending on the make up, the actual flash point can alter however:
Flash point says >60°C
Jet fuel says 38°C
According to the article, they are the same thing  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Willbo987 (talk • contribs) 15:01, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flash Point Incorrect? 

message: JP-4 was a fuel developed for carrier use, during the transitional phase from piston engines.  A low fire risk kerosene fuel was stored, with other tanks still carrying large stock of AVGAS gasoline. For fuelling jet aircraft, the two would first be mixed.
Was JP-4 the designation for the stored kerosene, or for the mixed blend?  In such a case, what was the other (blended / stored) component called? Andy Dingley (talk) 16:32, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  JP-4 naming? 

message: There is no information in this article about the production of jet fuel witch I believe should be added. XStellarx (talk) 15:31, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  No information on production 

message: I added a {confusing} tag to the section on ground use. The second paragraph claims airport support vehicles running on Jet-A suffer from increased wear and tear due to the decreased lubricity of Jet-A fuel compared to diesel. The following paragraph states the exact opposite: That Jet-A, due to its higher sulfur content, has BETTER lubricity. These claims are mutually exclusive, and I do not know which one is correct. Stian (talk) 07:37, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lubricity confusion 

message: Flash point is definitely lower than 60°C. According to every single MSDS I've found, it's 38°C or 100°F.
I am not an expert on Jet fuel, but I do work in the oil storage industry and know that in Europe Jet fuel is a class 2 product, meaning its flash point is between 21°C and 55°C. So 60 is most definitely too high.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.18.82.195 (talk) 06:57, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: If you're in the industry, does that give you access to good sources? That would clear it up nicely. Andy Dingley (talk) 11:33, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

text: Per the article tags, there also seems to be some confusion between flashpoint and autoignition temperatures. Andy Dingley (talk) 11:34, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flash point 

message: When clicking this reference: "Beginner's Guide to Aviation Biofuels". Air Transport Action Group. May 2009. Retrieved 2009-09-20.
I am asked to log in, and I am not able to access it. Is there another way to get this file? It seems unwise for Wikipedia to use sources that are inaccessible to most people.
174.52.198.8 (talk) 02:56, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference not accessible 

message: Is Wikipedia english international ? Yes? I say no. Because of a local, in international business no more valid hazardous indication system called NFPA.
The GHS instead was created (1992) and implemented (2000) by the United Nations for worldwide use, and YES, mandatory for each chem travelling.
Why you are sticking the head in the sand and even not mention the GHS indication for JET A?
--Cosy-ch (talk) 13:02, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  NFPA versus GHS 

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message: I removed the following sentence from the section "Differences between Jet A and Jet A-1"
: 
I think, what was meant, is, that both fuels are designated by that number. But I don't know, and the given source doesn't relly prove anything to a layman. At any rate, a section "Differences..." should not have a sentence starting with "As with". Please can anyone in the know add the correct UN-Number information back into the article? If it's the same for both types of fuel, it needs to go into the parent section. If not, the different number needs to be found out, and the two numbers put into the two subsections, in sentences with unambiguous wording, thankyouverymuch. --BjKa (talk) 10:44, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  UN 1863 

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message: :Comparing avgas to jet fuel had errors. Volatility is not the reason high performance aircraft engines require high octane gasoline. High performance high efficiency engines have high compression ratios, and octane rating involves preventing hot fuel air mixture (in carbureted engines) from igniting (see autoignition) in the cylinder before the spark, either by using more stable fuel like isooctane, or an additive like Tetra Ethyl Lead or Benzene or alcohol to capture heat generated free radicals before chain reaction (overcoming inhibition) is initiated by spark. German WW2 propeller driven fighters used fuel injection which allowed lower octane fuel.
:Kerosene was used originally because gas was in short supply (higher cost)and early jets were not fuel efficient so kerosene (a lower grade of Diesel)was used. Diesel engines inject fuel at the top of the compression cycle (air being superheated to ~500F which is higher than the autoignition temperature of diesel/kerosene. Similarly jet fuel's lower autoignition temp causes it to combust on entering the hot combustion temperature. Also note that Diesel/Kerosene has a higher energy per pound of fuel, alcohol has a lower energy per pound than gasoline.
:Kerosene is a wide boiling point mixture as is Deisel #1 fuel and they contain waxy paraffins, which provide lubrication. The Sulfur compounds (and Nitrogen compounds) in the fuel have no bearing on lubricity of the fuel. Sulfur acids creating on burning can cause corrosion of engines.
:NOx or Nitrogen Oxides are created at high temperatures and high compression ratios. The only way to lower NOx from diesel trucks is Urea injection etc. Nothing much that the fuel can accomplish. No jet fuel manufacturers currently add lower chain amines to reduce NOx.
Shjacks45 (talk) 05:03, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minor Quibles 

message: I know no editor likes people popping in and saying "this page sucks" before they walk away, but I was using this page as background research on a USAF project and the Synthetic jet fuel, USAF synthetic fuel trials, and Jet biofuels sections are terribly out of date.  Many statements/sentences are of the "this is happening now" type and they are talking about something that happened in 2008 or 2010 or that have been completely overcome by events and aren't true. 
Possible solutions are including the date/year of the happening with the information such as in the Jet biofuels section "In 2010, British Airways and Velocys have entered into a partnership in the UK to design a series of plants that convert household waste into jet fuel." 
Alternatively, there are several statements like "The Pentagon hopes to reduce its use of crude oil from foreign producers and obtain about half of its aviation fuel from alternative sources by 2016." This is three years out of date so it should be stated that they met the goal or the whole sentence should be deleted. 
My 2 cents. Ckruschke (talk) 13:44, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Synthetic/Biofuels Sections Are Severely Dated 

message: "However, jet fuel tends to have poor lubricating ability in comparison to diesel, which increases wear in fuel injection equipment.[citation needed] An additive may be required to restore its lubricity. Jet fuel is more expensive than diesel fuel but the logistical advantages of using one fuel can offset the extra expense of its use in certain circumstances.
Jet fuel contains more sulfur, up to 1,000 ppm, which therefore means it has better lubricity and does not currently require a lubricity additive as all pipeline diesel fuels require."
Which is right ?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.144.208.199 (talk) 23:24, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradictory lubricity statements