Talk:Vril

message: Arado was a fairly normal aircraft factory, besides producing its own models (including the jet Arado Ar 234), it did produce the FW 190. A sizeable portion of the work force were polish slave laborers. Productions facilities were at Brandenburg (Havel), Warnemünde, Anklam, Rathenow, Wittenberge, Neuendorf and Babelsberg. Technical director was Prof. Dipl.-Ing. Walter Blume, who also enjoyed a rather dull after war life, including consulting for the french/german Transall project. So, why didn't he end in Neuschwabenland, Area 51 or Akademgorodok? --Pjacobi 17:23, 2004 Dec 28 (UTC)
::Akademgorodok isn't a closed city like the 2 other named. :) Ъыь 10:36, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Arado 

message: I removed the following unsupported claims:
Historical records of the existance of the Vril society in the Third Reich or Weimar Republic are in doubt due to the fact that Allied Technical Intelligence teams in 1945 were ordered to recover all Vril documentation and hardware left behind and then systematically destroy all remaining traces of both the Vril Gesellschaft and Thule Gesellschaft. Their SS E-IV unit counterpart material was also confiscated by the Western Allies but is classified and compartmentalized seperately under the military file classification system. Since both Vril and Thule predate the military SS Technical Branch, their existence and historical personage records had to be destroyed under Allied occupation since the occult societies represented an extreme threat to de-Nazification if they were allowed to reform as societies. Thule joined Vril in 1919 and firmly established the Nazi Party (NSDAP) in 1920.
If somebody does find them relevant enough to be mentioned, they should be merged into the "claims in detail" paragraph.
Pjacobi 18:27, 2005 Jan 7 (UTC)
And that one:
But this is impossible since Thule was established in 1918 and only joined Vril in 1919. Vril was a circle of psychic women only. Thule was primarily composed of German businessmen with occult beliefs. In 1921, Vril officially became the "All German Society for Metaphysics" while Thule remained the same with strong contacts in the German business community. 
Pjacobi 19:41, 2005 Jan 8 (UTC)
-------
This article seems to just be translated,very badly, using Google probably, from some German texts.
This is not what people should get when they check the links for entries in other languages.
We can google-mutilate the original pages ourselves.
:Shall I delete the "claims in detail" part, until a better written version emerges?
No, thats the opposite of what were here to do. Clean up, edit, write, don't delete large blocks of text. Sam Spade  22:22, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed changes 

message: I've removed (again) a link to website showing substantive excerpts from a book: .
Please compare this discussion: . 
Pjacobi 16:56, July 29, 2005 (UTC)
*Thule Italia - Secret societies
Is not a copyvio, and I challenge your to substantiate your claim. ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 17:17, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The page starts with "Extract from the book SECRET SOCIETIES of jan van hilsing (pseudonym)" (and not even capable of spüelling the author's name correctly, it doesn't look like they have the permission). Then 70k text of the book is presented. --Pjacobi 17:26, July 29, 2005 (UTC)
70k of translated excerpt from the text. ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 19:47, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link claimed to becopyvio 

message: Is it possible that Vril is derived from "virile"? (Apologies if that is mentioned already in the article or here.) --Maru (talk) 04:53, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eytmology 

message: I am preparing to merge in Vril magic eye. Suggestions are welcome. Tom Harrison (talk) 04:07, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merging Vril Magic Eye 

message: I moved this comment from the article to here:
:Apparently you can't edit the part that I wanted to correct. The entry refers to the Bulwer-Lytton novel _The Coming Race_ as _Vril: The Power of the Coming Race_. The latter title was used for a reprint long after Bulwer-Lytton's death. 
Said User:66.78.68.237
The Coming Race says the original title was 'Vril: The Power of the Coming Race.' Tom Harrison (talk) 04:28, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Novel title 

message: On the Bovril page it states that this foodstuff was named after vril - but there is no matching reference here. Jackiespeel 21:27, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The Bovril connection

message: there is talk about an article named "Pseudoscience in Naziland" by a rocket scientist named Willy Ley.. No reference to this article is given, however a seach in google teaches us that this appeared in the widely respected publication "Astounding Science Fiction".. Hardly a solid scientific or journalistic source in my opinion! Jeroenemans 20:12, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Willy Ley article

message: Erm, this section is a bit confused.  Johannes W.F. Seiger has no formal connection with Sealand, only an imagined one.  That's not entirely clear from the article wording.  Even so the entry draws our attention not towards Vril but to Johannes W.F. Seiger, Neo-Nazis, erm, whatever :)  In any event, is it relevant?  It happens that http://www.principality-of-sealand.org/ (which is not the official site of Sealand) does babble on about Vril and blithely includes a link to this article and verbatim quote from this section, all signed "May 8th, 2006 , Imperial Commission VRILIA".  Wow. None of it should be here should it? Hakluyt bean 21:21, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  ...Vril today? 

message: In large portions of this article (particularly Thule, Nazis and Flying Disk parts) it is not made clear what is fictional, alleged, and fact.
It would be very easy to read this and believe that the nazis were developing flying disks, when no citations or sources are listed and it is not made clear the nature of the information given.
Accuracy tag to be added.
:We should put a tag of it being a fictional race and maybe add the tag of it being conspiracy related 68.9.223.94 22:23, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Edit: I doubt the conspiracy area is enough to deem another article but it might be a supsection here and on the listing of Conspiracies have it link to that section. 68.9.223.94 22:23, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fictional Entries 

message: Much of the info covered here has little or nothing to what is said about vril in the novel so i've decided to make a seperate article concerning it(Meaning no secret society,conspiracy or what so ever etc,etc).Also it doesn't explain the uses of vril since the link is lead to the society not to the so called vril energy.Asarhapi 15:11, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vril according to the novel 

message: I suggest merging the similar but much shorter page The Coming Race into the article on Vril.  Cardamon 09:53, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Both articles discuss both the book, and the people who  have taken the book seriously.  Both articles currently devote less than half their length to the book itself.  This article currently devotes a lower proportion of its space to the book than does The Coming Race.  Cardamon 20:23, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Suggest merging [[The Coming Race]] into Vril

message: I copied the names of the authors who have been building up the myth of the Bril-society from the german article, but I would consider it to boring to actually read the occultist-nonsense these people write. So if anyone has read some of their books... Zara1709 13:35, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Could someone verify/falsify the 'Claims in detail'?

message: I incorporated the section from Nazi mysticism into the article. That has however not improved the fact that the article is full of (not marked) unsourced statements and minor factual errors. I will probably read  the Occult Roots of Nazism again, maybe I can than improve some parts. -Zara1709 04:09, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent changes

message: I don't think it's appropriate to highlight one publisher's edition of this book, when it is neither the first, nor by any means the (or even an) authoritative version of the text in question.  I think it should be removed.
I will however put external links to all the currently in-print editions available online.  --70.53.122.55 15:23, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The place for listing various editions of Bulwer-Lytton's novel is in the wiki article The Coming Race that is specifically about that book. It is not appropriate here - a link to The Coming Race  is sufficient in THIS article, which is about the many subsequent historical and pseudo-historical claims surrounding the word "Vril". Ericlord (talk) 17:03, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Advertisement 

message: I would welcome edits, additions, and comments.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Denever6/The_Coming_Race
I think once all the sections and subsections have some material, it might make a worthy book-only page.
I am of the opinion that such a page would need to be rigorously monitored, to ensure that no material gets into it which is unrelated or contradictory to the contents of the book.  (as much of this article currently is--albeit, being called "Vril", for understandable reasons.)
Thank you in advance for your thoughts and edits!  --Denever6 18:21, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed "The Coming Race (Book Only)" Page 

message: I have deleted the following 4 paragraphs from the "Occultism and Nazism" section of the article:
 It has been convincingly argued that Hitler was likely to have met Lanz von Liebenfels while in Vienna and that he was a constant reader of his magazine 'Ostara'.  And as soon as he came into contact with the NSDAP in Munich, he also came into contact with the Thule society. 
Further evidence for occult influence is shown by private memos and letters of Himmler and Bormann, as well as the recollections of Hitler's friends August KubizekAugust Kubizek, The Young Hitler I Knew (Wingate, 1954), Josef GreinerJosef Greiner, Das Ende des Hitlermythos (Amalthea, 1947) and Hermann RauschningHermann Rauschning, Hitler Speaks (Thornton Butterworth, 1939).
However, while certain societies really did exist, like the ONT by Lanz von Liebenfels, they  were by far not powerful enough to have any influence on the Nazi Party or the SS. The occult influences on the SS originated  from Himmler himself and Karl Maria Wiligut. 
After 1941, most 'secret societies'  were officially dissolved by the Gestapo. These measures were most probably the result of the general Nazi policy of suppressing lodge organizations and esoteric groups. Goodrick-Clarke, The Occult Roots of Nazism, p. 197 
My reasons for this deletion are that:
# This seems more like speculation about societies might or might not have existed than encyclopedic fact.
# The topic of discussion has wandered far from the novel or even from Vril
# There is a Nazi Mysticism article in which this stuff could be more appropriately put.
Cardamon 10:01, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Replies:
# No, this is fact. I can instantly quote three reliable authors (Godrick-Clarke, Wilfired Daim, Harald Strohm) that attest this, and if you need I could find 10 more. Especially in the English speaking world there seems to be a vast amount of populist literature that exploits this theme for occultist speculation, but it is a field of serious study. 
#Not my fault, and neither Bulwer-Lytton's. If Wilhelm Landig wants his Ufos that evacuated Hitler to the South Pole to be propelled by Vril e.g., and there seem to be more people reading this stuff, than people reading the novel by Bulwer-Lytton, you have to bring this into the article. 
#The sub-section in question was part of a section on Vril in the Nazi Mysticism article in the first place. I did mention that in the edit summary, when I moved it here, didn't I? I probably thought that I would work on the Nazi Mystizism article next then, so I did not bother to see if any of the material ought to be moved back. -Zara1709 23:31, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Deleted Material on Nazi mysticism

message: Is it just me, or is the animated cycling of the various covers both (a) too rapid and (b) distracting? Is it common practice to jam in as many variant covers in this way, or has someone made an unfortunate decision here? D.brodale 05:54, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I know this comment is quite old, but I agree whole-heartedly that the animated .GIF used in the infobox is far too distracting.  I seem to recall some mention on Wikipedia not to use animated .GIFs as the main image for that exact reason, but I'm currently unable to locate that exact statement.  If should definitely be changed to a static image or just removed.  The argument that it prevents bias against one particular edition is ludicrous - this is the only novel infobox with an animated gif I've ever seen in all of Wikipedia and I've yet to prefer the first edition of, say, the Great Gatsby over more recent ones. ～藍子talk contrib 12:37, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Animated Cover Graphic 

message: Every source I've seen says that The Coming Race was first published in 1871, yet this article says it was first published in 1870. Which is correct? Kaldari (talk) 21:11, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Date of first publication 

message: Is the default sort key really necessary? Personally, I think that if anyone wants the article to be sorted under the title "The Coming Race", then the article itself should be renamed. Otherwise, I think that the article should be sorted under its current title. If no-one seriously objects, I might remove the default sort key after about a week or so. Comments welcomed. Cheers. – Liveste (talk • edits) 00:54, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  DEFAULTSORT 

message: Why is Wikipedia advertising the Hesperus edition of the book, instead of listing all (or at least several) editions currently print... or remaining mum on the subject altogether?
In the info box, the ISBN field shows no ISBN number, even though obviously there are several.
The article should either provide information for all (or at least multiple) in-print editions of the book, or none of them.
Unless there is a reason why Hesperus is due the privilege of being the only one featured in the article. --198.103.167.20 (talk) 15:59, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Advertisement in Article 

message: It would seem that this section is unnecessarily harsh with its treatment of the material, repeatedly claiming that the author had a severely misguided understanding of contemporary science. The section then goes into detail disproving the "science" described in the book, which as it has already been stated is a work of science fiction.
While this theme is certainly worth a mention, it could be done in a decidedly more NPOV way. And the part explaining in detail why a fountain of naphtha would be unpractical and dangerous is almost laughable in the seriousness of its criticism, especially when it can be inferred that Lytton was making reference to a magical substance also known as greek fire.
213.37.229.232 (talk) 22:39, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Science" of Vril Section 

message: Tag added per comments above. These edits by  added extensive original research to the Analysis section. I'd just revert, except there appears to be some useful material. 86.140.107.9 (talk) 00:48, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Original research

message: This section was packed with nonsense, and "referenced" only to an expired Google search and a  website that quotes chunks of enthusiast websites. I deleted it.  Cardamon (talk) 09:39, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Nonsense or not, if a conspiracy theory is reported in a reliable source, I don't see any reason not to retain it. Just from memory, I believe at least some of that section can be referenced from Goodrick-Clarke's Black Sun. I'll have a look when I've got some spare time. Gnostrat (talk) 01:21, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deletion of ''The Conspiracy Theory - Claims in detail'' 

message: :The Berlin Vril Society was in fact a sort of inner circle of the Thule Society.
Is this indeed a fact, or is it one of the claims made by Bergier and Louis Pauwels? AxelBoldt (talk) 18:04, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Connection to Thule Society 

message: There is a reference to the "Mariological prophecy"  I cannot be sure, but I suspect this has to do with Our Lady of Akita.  Our Lady of Akita is the title of Marian apparitions reported in 1973 by Sister Agnes Katsuko Sasagawa.  The 2029 date, I think, is as follows:  The visions of Mary at Fatima occurred in in 1917.  The visions at Akita occurred in 1973.  The interval was 56 years.  Add 56 years to 1973, and you get 2029.   http://www.angelqueen.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=63993&sid=65394ea9ed92983fb2c977546c983fbd  I think the part about the Mariological prophesy is pretty silly, and should probably be deleted, as the date might be significant in light of the interval of the Fatima and Akita prophesies, but I don't really see it being significant in terms of end of the world. Hypercallipygian (talk) 03:38, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mariological prophecy. 

message: A few places on the net, there is mentioned a title called The Vril Staff (1891), by X. Y. Z. (usually with Harry Houdini Collection Library of Congress). Could be of interest if there was some more info about it. 2A02:FE0:C900:1:ADC4:D2C2:F604:A44D (talk) 22:51, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: It has a WorldCat listing, a page in the SFE and is mentioned in passing in an introduction to the book  and that mentions another book called Vril by William Walker Atkinson which is better known and available online  (and isn't really a sequel, it is more Theosophically-inspired pamphlet). So there is enough to warrant inclusion. Emperor (talk) 00:16, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Unauthorized sequel?

message: I can't stay long but I just ran across the following scholarly text published last year:
* http://www.cambridge.org/kg/academic/subjects/literature/english-literature-1830-1900/english-fiction-and-evolution-language-18501914?format=HB
There is a preview on Google Books at https://books.google.com/books?id=ifQKCgAAQBAJ&pg=PR1&lpg=PR1&dq=English+Fiction+and+the+Evolution+of+Language,+1850%E2%80%931914&source=bl&ots=tX9R1NZidg&sig=Pkxnhuj0gPjjamSKiqK1h6MEf9Y&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjy-JeF-4vPAhWCjz4KHVAaAEcQ6AEIJDAC#v=onepage&q=Vril&f=false
 | title=English Fiction and the Evolution of Language, 1850-1914 | pages=27-29
 | journal=Cambridge Studies in Nineteenth-Century Literature and Culture | vol=101
 | author=Will Abberley
 | publisher=Cambridge University Press | date=2015
 | isbn=9781107101166
 | issn=1747-3136
This text can be cited as a BOOK (with the ISBN) but is part of an ongoing series (volume 101) on Victorian era literature so it can also be cited as a JOURNAL (with the ISSN). Personally I think cite book is the better of the two options. Koala Tea Of Mercy (KTOM's Articulations & Invigilations) 08:54, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Information about a scholarly book that briefly discusses the fictional language/culture of the Vril-ya