Talk:East Turkestan independence movement

message: Whoever corrected it last time did so in error. I don't really know what is best to write though. . . Both Xinjiang are controversial names, and neither one is more correct then the other. . .--Erkin2008 20:58, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Comment

message: E.T.I.M. stands for East Turkestan Islamic Movement. (according to Official United States State Department Doc) Therefore, a move is needed. TheAsianGURU (talk) 22:09, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The Chinese Goverment Xinjiang has just confiscated all the Muslims' Passport, In case of Olympic Game which host in Beijing 2008. (Hui Chinese Involved as well)  but this confiscation doesn't clearly shown on the laws or news. Just like the Confiscation of all the Arabic language related stuff with a hiden.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mazokn (talk • contribs) 09:53, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: OK. Thanks for the information. But what has it to do with this page is needed to be moved? TheAsianGURU (talk) 17:56, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: This page needs a move

message: As you can see above, nobody seems be able to explain what the difference is between E.T.I.M. - East Turkestan Islamic Movement (A terrorist organization, recognized by many countries including the United States, China & the UN) and the ETIM - "East Turkestan independence movement", which is a..."Friendly Independence movement"?! Someone is using this name to cast a shadow and mask them from being a terrorist organization. That's why there is the "Expert & Rewrite Tag" in the article. TheAsianGURU (talk) 23:06, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: East Turkestan Islamic Movement is the name of an organization. The "East Turkestan independence movement" is an idea, just like the gay rights movement or most other movements. The distinction is pretty clear; I will modify the intro to make it clearer. rʨanaɢ talk/contribs 00:45, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

text: But the difference is the gays rights groups don't engage in terrorism, and don't want to take over the rights to govern, whereas the Uyghur movements do. 81.158.205.115 (talk) 02:49, 19 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: What's the difference?

message: I'm going to go ahead and remove most of the cleanup tags on the article, as they no longer have a reason to be there. The  tag seems unnecessary, there are over 30 citations in the article and only three  tags; I believe someone has added a lot since it was added. The  tag was added without any corresponding talkpage section explaining why the editor believed t he article is non-neutral. As for , I see nothing that needs "general cleanup", and don't know what it's referring to—formatting and organization are all fine. Likewise, the  tag was rendered unnecessary at the same time the  one was: all the claims are sourced to individual people or bodies. rʨanaɢ talk/contribs 00:45, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Removing tags

message: Where is the stated that the July 2009 Ürümqi riots are connected to the independence movement? Why is it a subheading of this page then? Sashay, Shante! (talk) 03:29, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: This issue has already been taken up. The link to the July 2009 Ürümqi riots will be moved to the See also section (where the 2008 unrest link is) once the main page/ITN template is updated. Otebig (talk) 03:37, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: While not officially connected to any organized "independence movement", I imagine the riots will probably have implications for the issue in general. Plus, while the actual cause for the demonstrations that led to the riots was the Shaoguan incident, I bet whatever was going through people's heads (on both sides) as the violence was going on often had something to do with the independence issue...riots have a way of forgetting what they actually started over and just getting swept up in the heat of the moment ;). Anyway, that all is just speculation now, of course, but it's just my reason for thinking there might be some eventual benefit in keeping the brief summary in this article. rʨanaɢ talk/contribs 03:55, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  2009 riots 

message: I just found a wealth of useful academic sources here, at Meshrep.com (a Uyghur forum). They might be cherry-picked, but if they are used properly and put in perspective they could add a lot to the article. I've only looked at the first two so far, though.
Also found this recent article:
*
Not 100% sure about the date; I first found it posted here, and it was either written on 9 July or at least posted then. In any case, it was clearly written after the riots. rʨanaɢ talk/contribs 15:22, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: More sources

message: I placed a mergeto this article on East Turkistan Organization.  Personally, I think that stub is sufficient to stand on its own.
Some sources conflate the East Turkistan Organization, but I think this is either a transliteration error, or due to taking
the assertions of Chinese security officials at face value.  Chinese security officials have tried to conflate all Uyghur separtists
with the most violent separtists.  And I believe taking their allegations at face value is not consistent with WP:NPOV.
I placed the mergeto and mergefrom because I don't want to be solely responsibile for this decision.
Cheers!  Geo Swan (talk) 20:00, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  mergefrom 

message: Oh dear contributors! Thanks for cooking a chinese soup!
Do you sometimes read what comes out from what you write? No harmony in this article(!). Try to read from beginning to the end.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.104.30.234 (talk) 21:12, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: No doubt this article has problems. Please identify the issues you see clearly and specifically, to enable other editors to actually address them. If you can't do this, I may have to remove the tag you added (though I might add some of my own, particularly concerning the lack of citations...). The indiscriminate addition of tags without actionable suggestions for improvement is generally frowned upon. Thanks. Homunculus (duihua) 21:20, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Chinese Soup

message: http://books.google.com/books?id=JqZyQCZmrRAC&pg=PA279#v=onepage&q&f=false
Rajmaan (talk) 00:16, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Indigeneity in Chinese claims

message: There were two different separatist movements. One were the anti communist pan turkists like Muhammad Amin Bughra and Isa Yusuf Alptekin, who referred to their ethnic group as turkestani or turks, not as uyghurs, and the soviet backed communists who accepted the soviet imposed label of uyghur, which has won out as the term used to refer to the ethnic group today. They merged after the fall of the soviet union.
http://books.google.com/books?id=qz3vdkxBt4AC&pg=PA181&dq=Masud+sabri&hl=en&sa=X&ei=606sULS5F63U0gHm-YHoDQ&ved=0CEEQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=Masud%20sabri&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=NKCU3BdeBbEC&pg=PA37#v=onepage&q&f=false
Rajmaan (talk) 04:22, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Soviet and anti soviet versions of east turkestan separatism 

message: http://books.google.com/books?id=IAs9AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA307#v=onepage&q&f=false
Rajmaan (talk) 06:43, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: anti tunganism

message: The soviet formation of uyghur nationalism and history
http://books.google.com/books?id=8FVsWq31MtMC&pg=PA208#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=NKCU3BdeBbEC&pg=PA38#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=NKCU3BdeBbEC&pg=PA39#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=NKCU3BdeBbEC&pg=PA40#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=NKCU3BdeBbEC&pg=PA41#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=IAs9AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA188#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=dM9BAAAAYAAJ&q=inauthor:%22Rais+Abdulkhakovich+Tuzmukhamedov%22&dq=inauthor:%22Rais+Abdulkhakovich+Tuzmukhamedov%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_VrFULiZE6uz0QHHvoH4Cg&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAQ
KGB aid to Uyghur separatists.
http://books.google.com/books?id=mXXnd81uoMoC&pg=PA240#v=onepage&q&f=false
KGB Agent Victor Louis (journalist) wrote a book about his support for Uyghur, Mongol and Tibetan separatists, he encouraged the Soviet Union to try to wage war against China to allegedly "free" those nationalities from China's rule
http://books.google.com/books?id=ZavAkGUNdSkC&pg=PA175#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=cEdQ1IuJFH4C&pg=PA172#v=onepage&q&f=false
Rajmaan (talk) 01:38, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Soviet involvement 

message: http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/ahr/109.4/esenbel.html 
http://www.triposo.com/section/Prince_Komatsu_Akihito 
http://www.academia.edu/Papers/in/Ottoman_Prince_Abdulkerim_and_Japan 
http://www.turkey.jp/english/turkey-japanrelations.htm 
http://www.scribd.com/doc/protected/89074623/53 
es.scribd.com/doc/89074623/53/Ottoman-Relations-with-Japan 
http://books.google.com/books?id=rKlBpo1wUpwC&pg=PA202&dq=ottoman+prince+japan&hl=en&sa=X&ei=M1X7T66qOOzp0QHnxIj9Bg&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=ottoman%20prince%20japan&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=sz3jOgF1AGUC&pg=PA225&dq=ottoman+prince+japan&hl=en&sa=X&ei=M1X7T66qOOzp0QHnxIj9Bg&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=ottoman%20prince%20japan&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=T2NtAAAAMAAJ&q=ottoman+prince+japan&dq=ottoman+prince+japan&hl=en&sa=X&ei=M1X7T66qOOzp0QHnxIj9Bg&ved=0CD8Q6AEwAg 
http://books.google.com/books?id=3CrHCVJVEuUC&pg=PA79&dq=ottoman+prince+japan&hl=en&sa=X&ei=M1X7T66qOOzp0QHnxIj9Bg&ved=0CEMQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=ottoman%20prince%20japan&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=vDzjkrTDKjYC&pg=PA407&dq=ottoman+prince+japan&hl=en&sa=X&ei=M1X7T66qOOzp0QHnxIj9Bg&ved=0CE8Q6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=ottoman%20prince%20japan&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=ZRpXAAAAYAAJ&q=ottoman+prince+japan&dq=ottoman+prince+japan&hl=en&sa=X&ei=M1X7T66qOOzp0QHnxIj9Bg&ved=0CFMQ6AEwBg 
http://books.google.com/books?id=ltmXn9rUGD8C&pg=PA108&dq=ottoman+prince+japan&hl=en&sa=X&ei=M1X7T66qOOzp0QHnxIj9Bg&ved=0CFcQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=ottoman%20prince%20japan&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=-6OH48kBdREC&pg=PA379&dq=ottoman+prince+japan&hl=en&sa=X&ei=M1X7T66qOOzp0QHnxIj9Bg&ved=0CGEQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=ottoman%20prince%20japan&f=false
Rajmaan (talk) 05:05, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Japanese plot to Enthrone Ottoman prince during the Kumul Rebellion

message: the black mountain were pro chinese turkic muslims, the white mountain were anti chinese turkic muslims. They were ruled by khojas in the tarim basin. 
http://books.google.com/books?id=IAs9AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA33&dq=Black+mountain+white+mountain+chinese&hl=en&sa=X&ei=TVzFUI6wF6H20gH-toHgCg&ved=0CC8Q6AEwADgU#v=onepage&q=Black%20mountain%20white%20mountain%20chinese&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=1bArr1-E5mQC&pg=PA324&dq=Black+mountain+white+mountain+chinese&hl=en&sa=X&ei=1FnFULeQO8a00AGG8YDoDw&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Black%20mountain%20white%20mountain%20chinese&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=xXLg4cTZcDkC&pg=PA369&dq=Black+mountain+white+mountain+chinese&hl=en&sa=X&ei=1FnFULeQO8a00AGG8YDoDw&ved=0CEcQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=Black%20mountain%20white%20mountain%20chinese&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=xYhOAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA109&dq=Black+mountain+white+mountain+chinese&hl=en&sa=X&ei=1FnFULeQO8a00AGG8YDoDw&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=Black%20mountain%20white%20mountain%20chinese&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=AzG5llo3YCMC&pg=PA184&dq=Black+mountain+white+mountain+chinese&hl=en&sa=X&ei=1FnFULeQO8a00AGG8YDoDw&ved=0CD4Q6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=Black%20mountain%20white%20mountain%20chinese&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=sEbAyJ7aj38C&pg=PA78&dq=Black+mountain+white+mountain+chinese&hl=en&sa=X&ei=q1rFULyvHuy20AGb0YCoCQ&ved=0CDIQ6AEwATgK#v=onepage&q=Black%20mountain%20white%20mountain%20chinese&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=cF4lMj8skvoC&pg=PA237&dq=Black+mountain+white+mountain+chinese&hl=en&sa=X&ei=q1rFULyvHuy20AGb0YCoCQ&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAjgK#v=onepage&q=Black%20mountain%20white%20mountain%20chinese&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=bEzNwgtiVQ0C&pg=PA55&dq=Black+mountain+white+mountain+chinese&hl=en&sa=X&ei=q1rFULyvHuy20AGb0YCoCQ&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAzgK#v=onepage&q=Black%20mountain%20white%20mountain%20chinese&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=iWAGUYLgAU8C&pg=PA6&dq=Black+mountain+white+mountain+chinese&hl=en&sa=X&ei=q1rFULyvHuy20AGb0YCoCQ&ved=0CD4Q6AEwBTgK#v=onepage&q=Black%20mountain%20white%20mountain%20chinese&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=iyrrFNIdcbcC&pg=PA192&dq=Black+mountain+white+mountain+chinese&hl=en&sa=X&ei=q1rFULyvHuy20AGb0YCoCQ&ved=0CEEQ6AEwBjgK#v=onepage&q=Black%20mountain%20white%20mountain%20chinese&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=BwuSpFiOFfYC&pg=PA112&dq=Black+mountain+white+mountain+chinese&hl=en&sa=X&ei=q1rFULyvHuy20AGb0YCoCQ&ved=0CEQQ6AEwBzgK#v=onepage&q=Black%20mountain%20white%20mountain%20chinese&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=KTmO416hNQ8C&pg=PA21&dq=Black+mountain+white+mountain+chinese&hl=en&sa=X&ei=q1rFULyvHuy20AGb0YCoCQ&ved=0CEoQ6AEwCTgK#v=onepage&q=Black%20mountain%20white%20mountain%20chinese&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=mzxSNM3_vCEC&pg=PA214&dq=Black+mountain+white+mountain+chinese&hl=en&sa=X&ei=TVzFUI6wF6H20gH-toHgCg&ved=0CDIQ6AEwATgU#v=onepage&q=Black%20mountain%20white%20mountain%20chinese&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=MT2D_0_eBPQC&pg=PA139&dq=Black+mountain+white+mountain+chinese&hl=en&sa=X&ei=TVzFUI6wF6H20gH-toHgCg&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAjgU#v=onepage&q=Black%20mountain%20white%20mountain%20chinese&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=XULERYYEJo0C&pg=PA71&dq=Black+mountain+white+mountain+chinese&hl=en&sa=X&ei=TVzFUI6wF6H20gH-toHgCg&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAzgU#v=onepage&q=Black%20mountain%20white%20mountain%20chinese&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=WdEUAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA232&dq=Black+mountain+white+mountain+chinese&hl=en&sa=X&ei=TVzFUI6wF6H20gH-toHgCg&ved=0CDsQ6AEwBDgU#v=onepage&q=Black%20mountain%20white%20mountain%20chinese&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=-AznJs58wtkC&pg=PA232&dq=Black+mountain+white+mountain+chinese&hl=en&sa=X&ei=TVzFUI6wF6H20gH-toHgCg&ved=0CD4Q6AEwBTgU#v=onepage&q=Black%20mountain%20white%20mountain%20chinese&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=8FVsWq31MtMC&pg=PA88&dq=Black+mountain+white+mountain+chinese&hl=en&sa=X&ei=TVzFUI6wF6H20gH-toHgCg&ved=0CEEQ6AEwBjgU#v=onepage&q=Black%20mountain%20white%20mountain%20chinese&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=riPEes0xs-YC&pg=PA192&dq=Black+mountain+white+mountain+chinese&hl=en&sa=X&ei=TVzFUI6wF6H20gH-toHgCg&ved=0CEQQ6AEwBzgU#v=onepage&q=Black%20mountain%20white%20mountain%20chinese&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=4EqRBIz9GtgC&pg=PA67&dq=Black+mountain+white+mountain+chinese&hl=en&sa=X&ei=TVzFUI6wF6H20gH-toHgCg&ved=0CEcQ6AEwCDgU#v=onepage&q=Black%20mountain%20white%20mountain%20chinese&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=IAc7CVKSJpcC&pg=PA82&dq=Black+mountain+white+mountain+chinese&hl=en&sa=X&ei=TVzFUI6wF6H20gH-toHgCg&ved=0CEoQ6AEwCTgU#v=onepage&q=Black%20mountain%20white%20mountain%20chinese&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=4EqRBIz9GtgC&pg=PA78#v=onepage&q&f=false
21:11, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  black mountain and white mountain factions 

message: China and the Soviet Union waged a propaganda war over East Turkestan Independence, with the Soviets trying to incite separatism among the Uyghurs, and China retaliated with jamming and broadcasting of its own. Soviet Muslims (Uzbeks and others) would taunt Russians in the bazaars about the threat of China liberating Soviet central asia from the Russians, and China broadcasted news of Soviet atrocities against Afghan Muslims during the Soviet invasion.
http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/aureview/1980/may-jun/meehan.html
http://www.oxuscom.com/sovinxj.htm
http://www.nytimes.com/1983/07/06/world/on-soviet-china-border-the-thaw-is-just-a-trickle.html
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1946&dat=19810922&id=3oAxAAAAIBAJ&sjid=9KQFAAAAIBAJ&pg=5348,448513
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1928&dat=19690102&id=ylsgAAAAIBAJ&sjid=UGQFAAAAIBAJ&pg=4665,144363
http://f3.tiera.ru/1/genesis/580-584/581000/08896bda69d79b32dcf80f11fc793dbf
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/may2010/gb20100528_168520.htm
http://engnews.gazeta.kz/art.asp?aid=308213
http://www.irgamag.com/component/k2/item/6735
06:04, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Soviet Union support for East Turkestan Independence vs China 

message: I am currently researching armed struggle organisations so I was interested in learning about the situation in China. What I was looking for was something along the lines of "this is the name of the group/political party/movement, this is what they want, the leader/leadership is/are, they are reported to have committed such and such actions." Instead what I got was endless waffle, irrelevant historical detail, and endless, endless, endless repetition. (Not to mention instances of bad grammar in some places--English is NOT an opinion!--and political bias in others.)
I got bored, fed up, almost fell asleep and eventually was forced to give up completely after reading at most 20% of the article because my head was swimming. I would read half a dozen or more paragraphs, look at the title of the article in the address bar to make sure I wasn't reading something else by mistake, go back to the article and wonder a) what the hell what I was reading had to do with the purported subject matter of the article and b) why what I had just read in one paragraph was repeated over and over again in at least the subsequent six or seven paragraphs virtually word for word. Mind-numbing doesn't even begin to describe what I felt about it. To call the narrative meandering and disjointed would be too kind because quite simply it's disfunctional and therefore confusionary.
I have no hesitation in stating that this article could be edited down by 80% and still contain exactly the same amount of information (unless it is the intention of the authors to browbeat the reader into submission, or brainwash him/her, by the simple expedient of endless reiteration.) At least half of the remainder could be deleted as being completely irrelevant to the subject at hand. The East Turkestan independence movement is a specific topic with its own specific origins, causes, evolution. That's what the title's about and that's what I want to be informed about NOT about the history of the region going back to the Mongols and the Quing dynasty and this lot did this and that lot did that and yadda yadda yadda and a truckload of non-sequitors that have zero to do with the Turkic peoples of Xinjiang and any independence struggle they may or may not have undertaken.
My advice: Stick to the subject and GET TO THE POINT! As it stands this article is at least four articles on different topics masquerading as one. It should be headed "abandon hope all ye who enter here" because attempting to read it in its current form is simply a huge waste of time and people deserve to be warned in advance!--LondonItalian (talk) 14:01, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I concur. Is it a joke? Repeated maps of "Han dynasty in 1 AD."? Hadith quotes with numerous refs, translated twice into Turkish for better effect? Insane. Zezen (talk) 11:45, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

text: I just put tags on the article/certain sections, condensed some sections, and removed some redundant info. RuneMan3 (talk) 19:22, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

text: I've collapsed some of the references, just a first pass to clean up some stuff, without even touching the actual presentation of the content. (Numerous twitter links to suspended accounts, repeated full book citations for each page in a twenty-page range, etc.) This definitely needs some serious work. grendel|khan 22:42, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

text: Good god this page is horribleSassmouth (talk) 00:58, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

text: I agree 100%. This article may need to be rewritten to match Wikipedia's standards. I'll tag it as such. Kamalthebest (talk) 04:49, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Most badly written article on Wikipedia 

message: The article includes perspectives of the Uyghur Islamist groups themselves but not from foreign Islamists who support the movement. There are much more sources available like from Hizb ut Tahrir and others.
http://www.doamuslims.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/TheIncompleteHistory-AndalusAfter1492.pdf
Chapter 6: Connecting The Past To The Present:How Does Andalus Apply To Us Today?
https://historyofandalus.wordpress.com/chapter-6-connecting-the-past-to-the-presenthow-does-andalus-apply-to-us-today/
http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/TheIncompleteHistory-AndalusAfter1492.pdf
http://islamstory.com/en/taxonomy/term/5000
http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?253754-You-must-read-this-book-An-Incomplete-History-Muslims-in-Andalus
https://justpaste. it/hsrc
https://books.google.com/books?id=E5RpCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA210&lpg=PA210&dq=Ibn+Abi+Hashim+Al+Muhajir&source=bl&ots=M35mdDZzPR&sig=88omC6kSUH8qhZAEMeXM_VizQtQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiq-Py53YHPAhWGmR4KHU5VDWk4ChDoAQgwMAY#v=onepage&q=Ibn%20Abi%20Hashim%20Al%20Muhajir&f=false
https://www.scribd.com/document/11096445/Muslims-in-Central-Asia-and-The-Coming-Battle-of-Islam
http://www.khilafah.com/only-the-second-qutaibah-will-end-chinas-oppression-against-uyghurs/
http://www.khilafah.com/chinas-crusade-against-the-muslims-of-xinjiang/
http://www.khilafah.com/only-the-khilafah-can-protect-the-uyghurs/
http://www.khilafah.com/uyghur-muslim-women-continue-to-face-oppression-from-all-directions/
http://www.khilafah.com/china-bans-xinjiang-officials-from-observing-ramadan-fast/
http://www.khilafah.com/china-extends-its-brutal-repression-against-uyghur-muslim-women-who-wear-the-islamic-dress/
http://www.khilafah.com/without-the-khilafah-chinas-brutal-regime-is-free-to-abort-the-babies-of-the-noble-uyghur-women/
http://www.khilafah.com/persecuted-uighur-muslims-have-no-safe-sanctuary-except-under-the-shade-of-khilafah/
http://www.khilafah.com/the-capitalist-nationalism-of-turkey-humiliated-uighur-refugees-for-18-days/
http://www.khilafah.com/pakistan-headlines-16-aug-2016/
http://www.khilafah.com/raheel-nawaz-regime-is-endorsing-chinas-role-in-afghanistan-at-americas-behest/
http://www.khilafah.com/is-chinas-starting-a-central-asian-nato/
http://www.khilafah.com/social-engineering-through-marriage-chinas-latest-policy-to-assimilate-uighur-muslims-away-from-islam/
http://www.khilafah.com/xinjiang-violence-on-muslims-the-attack-on-islam-is-in-the-east-and-west/
http://www.khilafah.com/chinese-campaign-against-muslims-in-xinjiang-continues/
http://www.khilafah.com/chinas-conducts-aggressive-campaign-against-muslim-womens-islamic-dress-due-to-its-fear-of-an-islamic-awakening-in-east-turkestan/
http://www.khilafah.com/east-turkestan-has-no-qmuatasimq/
http://www.khilafah.com/views-on-the-news-16-aug-2014/
http://www.khilafah.com/china-may-send-troops-to-join-the-global-conflict-against-islamic-political-revival/
http://www.khilafah.com/totalitarian-chinese-regime-continues-its-war-on-islam-by-shooting-demonstrators-protesting-against-detention-of-women-and-girls-for-wearing-islamic-dress/
http://www.khilafah.com/views-on-the-news-04-july-2014/
http://www.khilafah.com/views-on-the-news-17-july-2009/
http://www.khilafah.com/repercussions-of-destroying-the-khilafah/
http://www.khilafah.com/photos-hizb-ut-tahrir-pakistan-protests-against-chinas-oppression-of-east-turkestan/
http://www.khilafah.com/a-dialogue-between-the-chinese-embassy-and-the-delegation-of-hizb-ut-tahrir-indonesia-chinese-embassy-runs-out-of-arguments/
http://www.khilafah.com/views-on-the-news-13-july-2015/
http://www.khilafah.com/views-on-the-news-6-july-2015/
http://www.khilafah.com/raheel-sharifs-kashmir-policy/
http://www.khilafah.com/images/stories/nussrah-mag/Nussrah_Mag_Issue_30_EN.pdf
http://www.khilafah.com/views-on-the-news-04-jan-2015/
http://www.khilafah.com/images//images/PDF/US_Grand_Designs_on_PK-Report.pdf
http://www.khilafah.com/the-dna-of-politics/
http://www.khilafah.com/the-major-powers-encourage-open-hostilities-against-muslims/
http://www.khilafah.com/enough-of-the-hundreds-of-resolutions-for-palestine-now-is-the-time-for-khilafah-and-jihad-as-a-solution/
http://www.khilafah.com/what-authority-will-assign-a-day-of-mourning-for-muslims/
http://www.khilafah.com/why-are-the-lives-of-the-ummah-of-muhammad-%EF%B7%BA-so-worthless-in-this-modern-era/
http://www.khilafah.com/dissenting-voice-in-indonesia-drowned-out-amid-the-unified-stance-of-muslims-concerning-gaza/
http://www.khilafah.com/images/images/PDF/Books/EmergingWorldOrder-TheIslamicKhilafahState.pdf
http://www.khilafah.com/pakistans-foreign-policy-is-at-odds-with-the-muslim-masses/
http://www.khilafah.com/thailands-regime-has-established-itself-as-a-persecutor-of-muslims/
http://www.khilafah.com/only-khilafah-will-end-the-oppression-of-muslims-in-uzbekistan/
http://www.khilafah.com/boom-and-bust-cycle-is-inevitable-in-capitalism/
http://www.khilafah.com/pakistan-must-sever-ties-with-america-to-ensure-future-economic-sustainability/
http://www.khilafah.com/qaa-the-iranian-nuclear-deal/
http://www.khilafah.com/to-the-csto-the-international-relations-with-the-islamic-ummah-will-change-very-soon/
http://www.khilafah.com/russias-anti-corruption-drive-is-doomed-to-failure/
http://www.khilafah.com/views-on-the-news-12-august-2015/
http://www.khilafah.com/views-on-the-news-22-july-2009/
http://www.khilafah.com/emerging-countries-searching-for-their-rightful-place-at-the-global-level/
http://www.khilafah.com/establish-khilafah-to-end-the-subjugation-of-muslims-by-the-hindu-state/
http://www.khilafah.com/g20-delivers-zero-solutions/
http://www.khilafah.com/pakistan-headlines-25-nov-2014/
http://www.khilafah.com/only-islam-will-eradicate-modern-slavery/
07:53, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  More sources from Islamist groups 

message: In the Pre-modern times subsection of Historical background (the very first section), do we really need 17 maps that pretty much show the same thing? It may have been done to show that there is a consensus of some kind (didn't really check what about, probably historical homeland), but showing only one map should serve this purpose well enough. If it's not disputed - as the current gallery implies - then there shouldn't be any problem with using just one image to illustrate it. Bataaf van Oranje (Prinsgezinde) (talk) 08:27, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image dump 

message: I have gone and removed a chunk load of stuff which simply does not seem relevant to the independence movement, broadly speaking. But we need someone who knows what they are talking about to do the rest. I can't help but laugh at some sections in this article. What a disastrous creation. My name isnotdave (talk/contribs) 07:29, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Taking a look at it, the French Wikipedia article is a good start. It is substantially smaller, but considering this might be a 'throw it in the trash and start again' job, it's something to look up to. My name isnotdave (talk/contribs) 11:30, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article needs an expert 

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I have just modified 5 external links on East Turkestan independence movement. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 6 external links on East Turkestan independence movement. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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I have just modified 30 external links on East Turkestan independence movement. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: can someone add the Xinjiang reeducation camps as an argument in the "Arguments for East Turkestan independence" section ? at it's current state the arguments against section is much bigger, the sources could be taken straight from here : Xinjiang reeducation camps#References — Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.178.57.21 (talk • contribs) 00:40, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: We need a reliable source for it. The size of each of these sections is irrelevant, and they are about the same size anyway. --MarioGom (talk) 18:07, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Xinjiang reeducation camps 

message: How can the present Uighurs claim a homeland in Xinjiang when their biological ancestors were not the aboriginal population and migrated to the area? The present Uighurs speak a Turkic language, which is a language of a Mongoloid people. Even the Turks of present day Turkey speak a Turkic language, and not the language of their biological ancestors, the Hittites, who spoke an Indo-European language. The reason was these people were conquered and enslaved by the Mongoloid people, and adopted the language of their masters. This is rather like African-Americans, who now only speak English, the language of their ex-masters, and not any African language. The African-Americans cannot claim to be Anglo-Saxons or Europeans for the reason they only speak the English language, which is a European language, and not an African language. When the Jews of Europe claimed a homeland, it was in the land of their biological ancestors, that is in the Middle-East, and not in the land of their residence such as Germany or Poland. Likewise, if the Uighurs desire to claim a country of their own, they should look to areas that are further to the West of Xinjiang, for example in the Caucasis or in parts of modern Turkey, where their ancestors came from. Indeed a country such as Turkey should volunteer to cede land to their Uighurs brothers so that they can return to their homeland. For the Uighurs to claim Xinjiang as east turkestan is as ridiculous as for African-Americans to claim parts of the USA to be independent Afrostan. 109.150.151.205 (talk) 02:36, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: This article is not a propaganda piece supporting Uyghur independence. Rather, it is an article explaining what Uyghur independence is, the history surrounding the movement, the reasoning behind the movement, and modern-day perceptions of the movement. I can't say whether the desire for Uyghur independence is justified or not, but I can still report on the facts as I see them. Some people desire Uyghur independence, and it is a significant issue in China and in Xinjiang, China today. Jargo Nautilus (talk) 14:59, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Then the article should explain the reasoning behind the movement is based on a fake claim. The present day Uyghurs are not genetically related to the ancient people also called Uyghurs. The original ancient Uyghurs were a Mongoloid people. The present people were given the name Uyghur by the Russians. Turkic is a term coined by linguists that refers to a language family, and is not an ethnic group. The Turkic language was originally a language of the Mongoloid people. This language had then subsequently been adopted by the people of the Near East, including by people of modern day Turkey, rather like African people in America adopting English as their language. The ancestors of the present day Uyghurs were from the Near East. If the Uyghurs wish to establish an independent state, then by all means do so, but they should establish their independent state in the Near East and not in China. This would exactly match the Jews' re-establishment of the state of Israel in the Middle-East, which is the land of their ancestors. The Jews did not and could not establish a homeland in Europe such as in Germany or Poland, where they lived, as these countries were not the countries of their true origin, and these countries would not allow them to do so. In the same way the Uyghurs cannot establish an independent state in China, as it is not where their ancestors were from; but if they wish to do so, they should return to the Near East and establish their independent state there. 81.158.205.115 (talk) 02:10, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

text: The Jewish reclamation of Israel has caused an ongoing international conflict, the Israeli–Palestinian conflict, which is still active today. Matters such as these are not that simple. Jargo Nautilus (talk) 06:30, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: But it is still the land of their biological ancestor, and they have successfully claimed it regardless of what their fellow Middle-eastern "cousins'" views are. In the same fashion, the Uighurs should claim their rightful land from their Turkish cousins and not from the Chinese. It might of course lead to a Turk fighting a Turk, but that will be their choice. Just imagine if the people of Chinese descent in Malaysia or any other country start to make a claim for an independent Chinastan in those countries, it would cause an uproar against those Chinese peoples; no doubt they will be told that if they wanted a Chinastan, then go to China. So if the Uighurs want a Turkestan, then go to Turkey and ask the Turks for it. Just imagine African-Americans claiming an independent Afrostan in the USA, let's just say, the US government will not allow it. 109.150.151.205 (talk) 03:14, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: ”Just imagine if the people of Chinese descent in Malaysia or any other country start to make a claim for an independent Chinastan in those countries” that "independent Chinastan” is called Singapore and it became independent in 1965.  Did you genuinely think that was a good argument? Horse Eye Jack (talk) 05:22, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

text: Wrong, Singapore was kicked out of Malaya. The city state consists of Chinese, Malays and Tamils. It is not Chinastan. You are confusing Malaya with Malaysia.109.150.151.205 (talk) 16:08, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: For a guy who theoretically is opposed to fake claims you make an awfully large number of them. Its not my job to teach you history, try perusing Singapore in Malaysia, Independence of Singapore Agreement 1965, Race in Singapore, and Demographics of Singapore. Democratic self-determination is a human right recognized by the UN, you cant just pick and choose which groups get self determination and which don't. Horse Eye Jack (talk) 16:18, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

text: And where does it say Singapore is Chinastan? it might be in your history, which is made up. And don't be so sexist, I am not a guy. If the Uighurs want a Turkestan, then by all means return to the place where their biological ancestors came from, that is in an area around the country now known as Turkey. 109.150.151.205 (talk) 02:02, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you genuinely think the Turkic peoples come from Turkey? Thats just ignorant... See Turkic peoples and Turkic migration, the lead for the second of which reads "Turkic migration refers to the expansion of the Turkic tribes and Turkic languages into Central Asia, Eastern Europe and West Asia, mainly between the 6th and 11th centuries. The region of origin of the Turkic peoples is suggested to be somewhere in Siberia (North Asia), Mongolia or northwestern Manchuria." Horse Eye Jack (talk) 03:38, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

text: No I don't think the Turkic people come from Turkey. The Turkic people were and are East Asians, and Mongoloids. Modern Turks and Uyghurs are Anatolian peoples, who adopted the Turkic language. This is the same as African-Americans adopting the English language as their native language. Just because modern Turks (of the country now called Turkey) speak a Turkic language now does not in itself make them a "Turkic" people; they are still an Anatolian people. In the same way, just because African-Americans now speak English as their native language does not make them Anglo-Saxons. 109.155.164.36 (talk) 03:31, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fake claim 

message: As Uyghur refers to a people, and Turkestan refers to a hypothetical geographic place, is Uyghur and Turkestani the same thing? The ancestors of the present day Uyghurs were from the geographic place known in English as the Near East. Surely then, if the Uyghurs want to have an independent state, they should set it up in the Near East of their ancestors. This would be similar to the establishment of Liberia in Africa for African-Americans who wanted to return to Africa. Uyghurs who moved to Turkey feel very much at home there, so it is right that a Uyghurstan be established in the Near East so that all Uyghur people can move there to live in their home country. 81.158.205.115 (talk) 02:42, 19 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you honestly believe that Chinese people (excluding Uyghurs) feel at home in the Tarim Basin and the Taklamakan Desert? The geography of these regions is very different from the geography of the rest of what is currently the People's Republic of China. I don't think Chinese people (Hua or Han people) have ever had a history of inhabiting this region, though I could be wrong. I don't necessarily believe that Uyghurs should have their own independent country, but I think it's safe to say that they are indigenous (or, at least, "native for a long time") inhabitants of this particular region, since no one else in their right mind would want to live there. I believe that the best solution is for Uyghurs to have autonomy within China. At the moment, they're supposed to have autonomy according to China's own laws, but the Chinese government has been eroding their autonomy in recent times. For example, the Uyghur language has been banned in schools and the practice of Islam has been declared a "disease". Now Uyghurs are being locked up by the hundreds of thousands in concentration camps for supposedly having ties to the independence movement (though, in many cases, such allegations have been unsubstantiated). So, I don't think that Xinjiang is really an "Uyghur Autonomous Region" anymore, if it ever was, to begin with. And, I believe that this erosion of the Uyghur people's autonomy within China will only lead to more pro-independence sentiment within the region. Jargo Nautilus (talk) 07:34, 19 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, the Chinese people in Xinjiang feel at home in the Tarim Basin. I am unaware that any people feel at home in the desert part of the Taklamakan Desert. After all Taklamakan means "you enter and not come back". People can survive only in the oasis. Yes, you are wrong, Chinese people, that is Mongoloid Chinese people have lived in the Xinjiang region for over 2,000 years. The rest of your mangled accusations are untrue. 109.155.164.36 (talk) 03:38, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: What's your typical "Chinese people" here? Are Chinese people those living in China or actually those of Han ethnicity? It's a bold and extremely thuggish statement. The problem of this "Chinese people" is, despite its claim as a people from China, in reality the only people who represent "Chinese" are of Han ethnicity. Those who learn history realize Han Chinese cannot distinguish the difference. ZaDoraemonzu (talk) 06:04, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

text: As far as I am concerned anyone who is a citizen of China is a Chinese person and that include the current uighur people born and living in China. However, there are some stirrers out there who say the uighurs in China are not Chinese. There are many people in western countries who stir up hatred by claiming uighurs in China are not Chinese, Tibetans in China are not Chinese and so on. I do not say that. The logical conclusion is if any uighurs who say they are not Chinese do not belong to China. Indeed even people of Han descent outside of China and without Chinese citizenship are not regarded as "Chinese" by the present Chinese government. In the same way, Uighurs and Tibetans who have taken up citizenships of other countries are no longer Chinese; they can of course describe themselves as uighurs or tibetans. In much the same way, White Anglo-Saxon citizens of The USA or Australia or South-Africa can no longer call themselves British. These people are now Americans, Australians and Africans. Just imagine a Chinese politician going into Wales and tell the people there that they are not English. The Welsh in Wales already know they are not English, but they are still British, whether they want to be or not. In the same fashion, the Welsh speakers of Patagonia in Argentina are no longer British, but Argentinian. They can of course still call themselves Welsh, but not British. I am very clear what Chinese or British or American or Australian or African or English or Welsh or Scottish or uighur or tibetan mean, what about you @ZaDor, do you know what they mean? If uighurs want a place to form a country called turkistan, then they should go back to the land of their ancestors in Anatolia and form it there. In the same way there are many Jews (ancestry in the Middle-East) and Romany (Gypsy peoples originally from India) in Europe, but they will never be allowed to form a Hebrewstan or Gypsystan in Europe. Nor will African-Americans be allowed to form an Afrostan in America. 2A00:23C5:C102:9E00:4453:CED6:348A:D44A (talk) 14:52, 23 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is Uyghur and Turkestani the same thing? 

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message: Why was this flagged as not neutral? Blindlynx (talk) 11:12, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Good question. Unless some exposition of the issues is presented, we should get rid of the tag. Acalycine (talk) 05:15, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

text: Agreed. "East Turkestan" should be used when referring to the movement, their proposed name and their independence proposal, while "Xinjiang" should be used to refer to the actual region in its current form. MarioGom (talk) 10:53, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  I originally wrote the intro as The East Turkestan independence movement is a movement seeking independence for the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region of the People's Republic of China, to be named "East Turkestan". [i.e. the independence activists want the new country to be named East Turkestan]. Someone changed the article this year to refer to Xinjiang as "East Turkestan" everywhere outside of that sentence. 'Twasn't me. Jargo Nautilus (talk) 14:54, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

text: If I may necropost, that wasn't why the POV tag was added. It was because of smearing by wumaos; see previous sections. Firestar464 (talk) 05:37, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality of article 

message: So it seems that East Turkestan Islamic Movement and East Turkestan Independence Movement are different things? But both ETIM.  That distinction needs to be made clearer. Cossaxx (talk) 07:24, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  ETIM stands for ... ? 

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message: The Tarim Basin Mummies have now been identified by DNA analyses to be from local tribes and are not related to the present people mistakenly called uighurs. The present day uighurs were mistakenly labelled as uighurs by russians, and the title has stuck, but they are in no way related to the original people called Uighurs. This is comparable to europeans calling Native Americans as indians, when of course Native Americans are in no way related to Indians from the Indian sub-continent.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-04052-7
2A00:23C5:C13C:9F01:A0D8:F967:2BD7:D401 (talk) 13:34, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tarim Basin Mummies are from local tribes as identified by DNA studies