Talk:Sailor Moon/Archive 2

message: If you've been checking the "Recent changes" page lately, you've probably noticed I've been doing a lot of redirects.  Well, this is part of something I like to call Project Shut Up Sailor Moon Fanboys.  Basically, I've covered every single base to ensure that fanboys won't have any silly gripes over Wikipedia content.  I've done a lot of stuff and I'm tired, so I'm going to bed, but I'll continue when the sun comes up.
Some things I will NOT do:
*acknowledge Ikuni-ism Sailor Moon;
*romanize Sailor into "Seera" or "Seeraa" for redirects;
*try to read fanboy's minds ("I tried to look up 'Sailor Taitainiamukeroko' and got nothing! Wikipedia sucks!')
If you have any comments or suggestions, I'd like to hear them, but I'd rather you put them in my talk page, or in the Wiki link for the Project. Danny Lilithborne 10:30, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fanboys, be appeased! 

message: :However, in a bit of irony, while being targeted to girls in Japan, Sailor Moon has attracted a primarily adult male fanbase in English-speaking countries.
Umm, is this true?  Can we get a source for it?  I know it was always a girl show when I was young.  -GregoryWeir 21:14, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Demographics? 

message: I think that besides the main inner/outer senshi, we should compile a list of all the senshi in the anime/manga for the page.  Even joke ones, like Sailor Guccicci, etc.  And on that note, is Tubby Kamen really a "senshi"?  Even a joke senshi?  I mean, the author said that senshi can only be girls, but then again, although Mamoru isn't a senshi, he is the equivalent of 'Sailor Earth'.  Mayukhers112 00:39, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sailor Senshi Page 

message: Why were the anime is different from the Manga... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.200.34.179 (talk • contribs) 
::Do you mean, "Why was the manga different from the anime?" That's not for a Wikipedia page, that's for a fan website. Wikipedia only wants to introduce the subject, not detail the series. Please also sign your posts.
Hitsuji Kinno 03:26, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anime - Manga 

message: Scholarly journals are good sources, no?
Interesting tidbit to work somewhere into the article:
The journal is restricted access..  If you're affiliated with a University, you may be able to get a full copy of the article either through a campus subscription or Interlibrary Loan.  
Japanese Studies
Volume 20, Number 1/May 1, 2000  
Anne Allison
Bandai was heavily involved in the promotional campaigns in the US as they were banking on the success of the show to generate sales of their toy merchandise, mainly dolls, which were originally scheduled to come out one month before the start of broadcast (September 1995). As it turns out, there was a delay due to reported disagreements in Bandai over what changes to make to the Japanese version of the doll for US sales.¹ Their concern seems to have been both justified and insuficient, in the end, as the reason Sailor Moon ultimately failed in this market, I have been repeatedly told, was because it never really registered with the tastes and desires of American girls. In short, Sailor Moon was perceived as being too 'different'. 
She goes on to explain later in the article that the dolls were not a hit with the US audience because they still looked too Japanese.  They looked alien, I believe was the reason. Mentioning the the changable nature of the faces in the Anime -- noses dissapearing, huge mouthes, and the changing styles of the character eyes in the anime.   There was an interesting quote from a Bandai official stating that Sailor Moon would be more popular than Barbie because Sailor Moon has a back story. 
And then she goes on to explain the cultural attraction of Sailor Moon to young females in Japan: 
Feminists, such as commentator Minomiya Kazuko, see the reality of better gender relations and more career and lifestyle opportunities for women today in Japan reflected in the bishoujo hiro [hero] trend.² Japanese girls are happier and more satisfied to be born female today than ever before, she notes, which is conveyed in the upbeat characterization of Sailor Moon who is not only a strong hero, but also an ordinary girl who enjoys her indulgences. The very ordinariness of the hero, so different from the typical male hero, is a positive role model for girls as well as boys, she argues. Using the somewhat odd word `risoukyou ’ (utopic) to describe the very earthbound nature of Serena/Usagi, Minomiya applauds her everyday indulgences of shopping, eating, video games, and general hanging-out with her girlfriends. That such a `normal’ girl can then go on to fight evil and become a superpower is a more balanced portrayal of heroism than the standard male scenario where the hero seems perfect and focused from the beginning, and is both willing and required to sacrifice everything for his `job’ (as are corporate sarariiman). Girls, in short, can see themselves in both the flawed Usagi and the super-enhanced Sailor Moon, which will encourage them to be both comfortable as girls and inspired to seek out careers or missions as adults unrestricted by their gender. (A Japanese career woman told me she saw this differently, however; the blemishes Usagi displays under the cloak of superheroism are the masquerade working women must be willing to adopt in Japan in order to assuage the egos of their male co-workers.) For boys too, there is a positive message, according to Minomiya, though her claims that boys watched the show were disputed by Bandai executives I interviewed during the summer of 1998, who said the show had been strictly `for girls’ . Violence and chauvinism are less a part of heroism in this girl’ s brand of the superpower and the emphasis given to interpersonal relations and everyday life models a life where family and friends can be balanced with work and vocation.
She goes on to conjecture that a reason the show didn't catch on with US audiences was because the culture is different. Usagi was seen a too whiny; and, I guess to paraphrase, she wasn't superhero enough.   She also suggests that the show was mismarketed.  That it was put into bad time slots handled badly by DiC and Bandai. 
Small snippets of a 22 page article should be within the realm of fair use--I hope. 
¹Asahi Shinbun, `Amerika shiyou ni henshin yo’ (Transforming to Suit American Specification), Asahi
Shinbun, 14 July 1995 (evening edition), p. 1.
²Minomiya Kazuko, `Bishoujo hiiro wa doko eiku ka?’ (Where are Beautiful Young GirlHeroes Going?),
in Kouei Cult Club (Ed.), Bishoujo Hiiro Senki (War Journals of Beautiful Young Girl Heroes) (Tokyo: Kouei, 1994), pp. 128± 135.
--Kunzite 02:06, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Working in some sources... 

message: Where in this article is information from this book referenced?   If there is nothing references from this book, why is it listed in the references?  (Other than the author trying to sell books, I suspect. ) 
* 
--Kunzite 02:01, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This was my attempt to start this article on its way to featured status, but it seems I just barked up the wrong tree.  Denelson83  06:04, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Do you own the book?  Can you pull some quotes from it to back up portions of the Sailor Moon article? Also, your user pages notes that you're in University.  Your Univeristy has a library; now-a-days most universities allow you to access many online journal and newspaper resources from home. Perhaps you can get into access to that large, helpful thing and find some sources of information to incorporate into the article to help make it more likely to be featured.  --Kunzite 22:09, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm in College, not University, and it's too cumbersome for me to look through online journals that aren't accessible from the outside.  Denelson83  23:41, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Most academic libraries offer remote access to databases and scholarly journals. --Kunzite 05:50, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

text: I made the article ages ago and someone deleted it. Incidentally I'm not the author but I own the book and really liked it. It's very good, at least in my opinion. GracieLizzie 16:44, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where is this reference? 

message: We all need to agree on a form for the profile pages--they are so inconsistent. One will have an introduction, and then other stuff in the body, and then another one witll have an introduction, separated attacks, and other things. It's quite confusing. Plus I think that manga and anime information under any heading should be separated-- so attacks should have a manga and anime subheading. The personalities if they are to be distinguished should as well. The switching back and forth in the paragraphs left me confused as to what was truly meant. It also will give a visual cue... Any suggestions on the exact format of the character page in the exact order, etc should be addressed here. It should be conisistent and easy to understand throughout.
Hitsuji Kinno 23:21, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Character Profile Clean Up

message: I tried to fix all of the Queen Serenity's, Princess Serenity's, ect. becuase the correct term is Selenity, but I don't have the time or the patience. Too much of this needs to be minorly over-hauled and fixed. I've tried to fix what I can (like Hotaru's attack Death Ribbon Revolution as opposed to the incorrect Death Reborn Revolution), but I do not have all day to go back and fix all of the many little mistakes. Also, somebody apparantly thinks many words have random Z's in them (like frisbee). I tried to fix those. Basically this whole thing needs someone who has some clue as to what they're doing to go back and clean up some of the information. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by CureWhite (talk • contribs) 16:59, 26 February 2006  (UTC)
* Nope.  "Selenity" is not a valid English word, while "Serenity" is.  Just because Japanese speakers unify their l's and r's doesn't mean we should violate English spelling to reflect this.  Denelson83  17:59, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: * I also have a problem with this argument.  Ian Miller uses this as misguided reasoning for the use of "Amazones"  over "Amazoness."  Because the word a word is not 'logical' in English, it cannot be 'valid'. - The parts together are semantically redundant because "Amazon" refers to a human (a female), and the human Amazon is already female http://antares7.absoludicrous.net/articles/amazones/index.html Naoko Takeuchi used the JAPANESE language; not English.  His "Amazones" over "Amazoness" is an argument that I do not buy.  His reasons that "Amazones" is a more proper word than "Amazoness" is because it's feminizing a word that was female in origin. (Even though the word "Amazoness" as Amazon +ess appears in a Japanese dictionary. See:Infoseek:アマゾネス -->  アマゾネス　［日 ＜Amazon＋-ess（女性）］ Translation --> Amazoness　[Japanese. Etymology: Amazon＋-ess（woman）]) --Kunzite 00:06, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, Miller's refusal to openly recognize the myriad puns within the series is a red flag that his information could be deeply effected by bias/opinion and therefore must be analyzed even more critically than the usual suspects. -- NatsukiGirl\talk 20:02, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Serenity Should be fixed 

message: One way to fix the debate over names would be to strictly romanize by one system, even if it puts R's where L's would go, and let the individual character pages linked to talk about all the name permutations such as the Serenity/Selenity and Metaria/Metallia debates.  Perhaps a first note that names that are starred have some other interpretations and to see the character page for that person regarding the versions.   72.192.237.134 17:24, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name standards 

message: Question: Which image type should be represented? So far only anime images are used, thus giving users only one side of the picture. This constitutes bias, does it not? The original incarnation of Sailor Moon was in fact the manga version, should its art not trump the mainstream anime version? I think there should be some representation of both forms. I see that the header title images was deleted, and wonder if this issue has not already been resolved. Curious... Strideranne 12:58, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anime vs Manga images