Talk:Anti-social behaviour order

message: I came to this article hoping to find information like whether it's possible to appeal against an ASBO. If anyone knows this, perhaps they could add it to the article!--New Thought 13:54, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Legal remedies? 

message: Why don't you concentrate on the good aspects of ASBO Legislation instead of being the usual, run of the mill, boring teller of "whacky" ASBO Stories
ASBO has a place in modern society because modern society has failed miserable. We are a Nation of whingers who want things to happen to improve our lives but when that change occurs our bleeding heart suddenly turn in panic and we start bleating about a Nanny State!
Its just typical of the malaise affecting this Country since the Lefties of the 60's started to ruin every aspect of our lives.
:: Ah yes those damn lefties with their "democracy" and their "rule of law" and their "human rights" and their "justice" why won't they just go away so we can institute summary executions for sneezing? 
: That's like asking for an article to focus on the good aspects of getting shot in the face.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.185.167.13 (talk) 11:49, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: A few examples are ok but we don't want to be a database for every 'weird' ASBO given out. Skinnyweed 11:02, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Miscellaneous Concerns About This Article 

message: An IP has changed the article to say that the evidence must be to the standard of criminal law not civil law. This contradicts things I've read on this subject. Anyone know for sure? Secretlondon 15:40, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually it's a combination of the two - criminal standard of proof but anonymous testimony and hearsay are admissible. Confirmation can be found in Home Office guidelines here....http://www.together.gov.uk/cagetfile.asp?rid=536
[added] It's not a combination of the two. The House of Lords held that as ASBO proceedings were civil in their nature it followed, at least in principle, that the ordinary civil standard of proof applied. However, it continued that given the seriousness of the matters involved, at least some reference to the heightened civil standard was necessary. The Lords stated that this standard was all but indistinguishable from the criminal standard and that as a matter of pragmatism, in all asbo cases, the criminal standard of proof was to be applied: R V MANCHESTER CROWN COURT, EX PARTE MCCANN & ORS (2003) 1 AC 787; (2002) 3 WLR 1313; (2002) 4 All ER 593; The Times, October 21, 2002.
When hearsay evidence is called, the court must still be satisfied to the criminal standard that the respondent has acted in an anti-social manner. The burden of proof is not lowered by the use of hearsay evidence. The hearsay evidence must meet the higher standard.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.2.52.8 (talk) 22:47, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Criminal standard?

message: Did anybody challenge ASBO in front of EU or UN courts? What were the results? 195.70.48.242 11:34, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There aren't really any EU or UN courts.. There is the European Court of Human Rights (which isn't connected to the EU, it's connected to the Council of Europe) and the European Court of Justice. It would be the European Court of Human Rights, that would get involved in this I think. I don't know what happened but I'll see if I can find out. Secretlondon 12:36, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  International law 

message: How about forking this into an article listing notable (i.e. weird and interesting) ASBOs, and then mentioning them here putting a Main article: List of notable ASBOs or something to that effect under the subheading? Joffeloff 12:49, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  How about 

message: While this is an old article, and a comment piece at that, it says that 42% of ASBOs are breached, leading to a jail term and contributing to the overcrowding in British prisons. Is there a more up-to-date statistic on this? Confusing Manifestation 02:18, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In todays newpaper they say thet 55% of the ASBOs issued between 2000 and 2008 was broken. Since 1999 broken ASBOs have led to more then 5500 people getting jailed. It also mentions that Amnesty International have criticised the overcrowding. It also mentions some wacky ASBOs like 33year old Michael Logan that isn't allowed to sing Bob Marley songs and a persson putting anti-war flyers in 50 mailboxes. I also notice that the article seem to leave out what happens if you break an ASBO. // Liftarn (talk) 17:59, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Breaches 

message: I believe that WP:NPOV and WP:WTA both indicate that we should not be using sections specifically for outlining criticism. Instead, these criticisms should be throughout the article. This doesn't mean we shouldn't have a section titled 'Civil Liberties Groups Responses' or similar (but with better grammar).-Localzuk(talk) 09:52, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism section 

message: The article, as it stands, is quite well balanced. However we need a little more information on the 'non-typical' asbos as they seem to be written for shock value at the moment.
We also need to add information about support for ASBOs as there seems to be an overall 'anti' asbo feel to the page (although this isn't too strong). -Localzuk(talk) 13:59, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Improving the NPOV of the article 

message: the article refers to a case where 2 youths were prevented from wearing a golf glove in manchester. but the refrence is simply "A case at Manchester Magistrates Court, November-December 2002." which is probably the vagest refrence i've seen in a while. could somebody find an actual refrence? otherwise i would feel that it should not suggest that it is a refrenced fact. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Keirstitt (talk • contribs) 22:15, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A case at Manchester Magistrates Court, November-December 2002.  

message: I believe I have dealt with a fair amount of the problems that this article had regarding POV. It now needs work to tidy up its actually wording though. Any takers?-Localzuk(talk) 18:46, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV 

message: This was in the article. Removing and sticking here. Secretlondon 17:59, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: ASBO concern

message: SO WHAT CAN I DO WHEN THE FATHER OF THE FAMILY I WANT TO GET THE ASBO OUT ON IS A POLICE MAN! AND I HAVE REPOTED HIM TWICE, ONCE TO HIS SARGENT AND THEN TO ANOTHER SAGENT AT ANOTHER POLICE STATION, I DUN IT OFF RECORD AS I DIDNT WANT TO LOSE HIM HIS JOB, THOUGHT DOIN IT THIS WAY WOULD WORK, BUT ITS GETIN BAD AGAIN, SO NOW I HAVE TO GET THE ASBO!
:I'm sorry to hear of your problems but please remember that this isn't a forum for expressing them. If you feel there is a problem with ASBO law or difficulty with someone, please contact a solicitor.-Localzuk(talk) 17:54, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ASBOS 

message: I have done an external link cull per style guides as we seem to be just adding links of relation to asbo's. If the content of the article is important enough to link to, it should be important enough to discuss within the article. Please don't just add every ASBO related link you come across. -Localzuk(talk) 18:58, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  External Links 

message: I've removed the claim
*An ASBO granted to a whole area, to part of Skegness  allowing the police to arrest anyone who caused trouble in the area.
"Skegness is given an ASBO", Skegness Today, 26 July 2006. URL accessed on 2 August 2006.
This is clearly talking about a dispersal order, and has nothing to do with ASBOs, despite the claim in the referenced news article (which I assume has intended to be humerous). Roy Badami 23:20, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have re-instated it as a dispersal order under the Anti Social Behaviour Act 2003 is a form of ASBO. These orders are made in the same way as an ASBO but apply to an area instead of a person or group of people.-Localzuk(talk) 23:24, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Ah, actually, looking at it the 2 do seem to have a difference. My confusion is based on discussions with, what appears to be now, an ill informed police officer. The problem is, we should cover Dispersal orders in a bit more detail somewhere on WP. I shall look into doing this at some point soon.-Localzuk(talk) 23:35, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dispersal orders 

message: In Australia, courts can issue people with a "Good Behaviour Bond". Maybe this should be merged into a common Wiki article. 203.166.255.9 00:39, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good Behaviour Bond 

message: Firstly, the "anti-social behaviour" link in the into re-directs to "Antisocial personality disorder", which is not (always) the same thing.
Secondly, the next section begins simply:
:United Kingdom
:In the United Kingdom, this is defined as "conduct which caused or was likely to cause alarm, harassment, or distress to one or more persons not of the same household as him or herself and where an ASBO is seen as necessary to protect relevant persons from further anti-social acts by the Defendant".[3] In England and Wales they are issued by Magistrates' Courts, and in Scotland by the Sheriff Courts.
What "this" is this referring to?  anti-social beahaviour, or ASBOs themselves?  It seems to start off referring to the former, then switch mid-sentance to the later.  Indeed, this paragraph is a partial duplication of the first section of Prevention of crime and disorder act.  The full text of this section reads:
:1 Anti-social behaviour orders
::(1) An application for an order under this section may be made by a relevant authority if it appears to the authority that the following conditions are fulfilled with respect to any person aged 10 or over, namely—
:::(a) that the person has acted, since the commencement date, in an anti-social manner, that is to say, in a manner that caused or was likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress to one or more persons not of the same household as himself; and
:::(b) that such an order is necessary to protect persons in the local government area in which the harassment, alarm or distress was caused or was likely to be caused from further anti-social acts by him;
::and in this section “relevant authority” means the council for the local government area or any chief officer of police any part of whose police area lies within that area.
When I have the time, I'll see if I can write a better description of whichever thing (ASBOs or antisocial behaviour) is most relevant here. 212.159.79.130 08:52, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd say anti-social behaviour and anti social personality disorder were very different things. Secretlondon (talk) 09:41, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Two points: 

message: Once a person is given an ASBO, do they ever expire?  This is not addressed in the main article Throckmorton Guildersleeve (talk) 16:40, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  How long does an ASBO last? 

message: The current references to Scotland are wrong. ASBOs were introduced in Scotland (with some differences) in 1998 i.e. before Devolution. At the moment it says they were introduced in 2004 for the first time. They were modified in criminal justice legislation in 2001 and again in the Antisocial Behaviour etc (Scotland) Act 2004.86.0.201.68 (talk) 20:31, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed. They were introduced in 1998 under the same law as the rest of the UK, but with their own wording to reflect the different legal system. I shall ammend it.-Localzuk(talk) 18:44, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scotland 

message: I think this article needs an overhaul too many inaccuracies and POV and there is no mention of interim-ASBOs or ASB interdicts which are similar and more commonly used but with much less media coverage.86.0.201.68 (talk) 20:30, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You are welcome to make those edits... The reason they are not covered is probably just that no-one has spent the time to research them.-Localzuk(talk) 18:41, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other ASBOs 

message: This section needs work. If the criteria of inclusion in this section is just the opinion of a few editors as to what constitutes an unusal ASBO, then it needs to be heavily edited or removed. For instance, a young boy forbidden to play football in the street, I could understand that if it was because he was kicking it into his neighbours windows, the 87 year old who swears at his neighbours, age does not place you above the law. Therefore, if there is nothing more than the opinion of editors as to what constitutes "less common" it needs to be taken down. The best thing would be if there was a report listing "unusual ASBOs" because then we could actually have a reason for listing what we did, because that reliable third party source did so. It can't stay as it is. SGGH speak! 22:27, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: IIRC, there is such a list somewhere. It was used as a reference for something on this page I believe.-Localzuk(talk) 22:37, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Would that be the home office report? NCCO or something from memory? If so, the ones listed in this section need to be only the ones mentioned in that report as "less common" and ones not from it ought to be removed. My point is simply that it cannot be down to the wikipedia user to decide what qualifies as "less common" it must be a third party source. I will go over them now and remove ones that are inappropriate. SGGH speak! 09:49, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

text: I have removed all instances of examples not referenced in that report (in fact a couple of examples referenced to news sites were also in the report so re-referenced them) and I have added a couple more from the report to flesh it out. I have also left a note outlining how further entries should be added. In this way, there is no longer an arbitrary selection process for inclusion in that section. I think that should solve it. Let me know on my talk page if the issue crops up again. SGGH speak! 10:04, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Less common ASBOs 

message: As someone who is not from Britian, I couldn't help but notice the strange name of the offence, given that the actions for which it is given tend to be anything but anti-social. A kid who sits in his room by himself all day playing video games should get an anti-social behaviour order. - 121.208.89.99 (talk) 02:56, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you're using a definition of "antisocial" that is more in line with "asocial". There is no evidence of a correlation between asocial behavior and lower likelihood of committing a crime that would warrant an ASBO. --82.31.164.172 (talk) 23:19, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Irony

message: This may be a silly question, but can an ASBO be given to a tourist, and if that tourist stays in town long enough to violate it can they be jailed (and stopped from returning to their home country)?
I'm assuming that just like any normal law that it applies equally to tourists as it does to citizens. VegKilla (talk) 21:45, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The chances of you getting one are very slim indeed. That said, most countries have bizarre laws. You should expect that when you are a tourist. For example, in many arabic countries there are penalties for homosexuality, and in the US, you can get in trouble for making jokes about bombs on airplanes. Arpitt (talk) 14:07, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Applies to tourists? 

message: Please view this film from an online youth magazine as I would like to submit it as an external link.
Thanks
Willsmore (talk) 17:55, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  External Link Suggestion - DO ASBOs WORK? 

message: Concerning this line: "The youngest recipient of an ASBO, a two year old autistic boy accused of kicking a football at windows over a fence 7 feet (2.1 m) high and verbally abusing residents when asked to stop.[29]"
If people read the article correctly it will state in the final paragraphs that the police may have made a clerical error. Also Lennon hasn't received an ASBO yet, but that he merely received a generic letter saying that he is liable to get one. 
94.215.169.38 (talk) 15:57, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Changed to:  "The youngest person to be threatened with an ASBO, a two-year-old boy accused of kicking a football at windows over a fence 7 feet (2.1 m) high and verbally abusing residents when asked to stop." VegKilla (talk) 06:18, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  incorrect example 

message: "As the ASBO is a civil order, the defendant has no right to evidence that might disprove the assertions of the plaintiff, though violating an ASBO can incur up to five years imprisonment."
I have removed the above text from the article, as is poorly phrased, and gives the impression that the Defendant is unable to mount a defence.  This is not the case - although the original contributor may have in mind the provisions of the Criminal Procedure and Investigation Act 1996, which places a duty of disclosure on the prosecution and defence.  Where a Post conviction ASBO is made, obviously the CPIA will apply, and where an ASBO is made by Magistrates sitting in a civil capacity, different rules of disclosure apply.  To state that D has no right to evidence that may tend to disprove the claimant's case is simply incorrect.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wowjm (talk • contribs) 18:49, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criminal Procedure and Investigation Act 1996 

message: Lol, seriously? It is viewed as honourable among some people to have been caught for a petty crime? Regardless of whether you're a virtuous citizen or an aspiring master criminal, that's pretty sad, but nonetheless, if a claim like this is to be included in a Wikipedia article, it needs to reference an authoritative source. It is also advisable to elaborate on this criticism and tie it in better with the rest of the article rather than sticking it in the middle of a paragraph among relatively unrelated sentences. Cheers. --82.31.164.172 (talk) 22:32, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I moved the sentence to the "Criticism of ASBOs" category, where it ties in better with the rest of the article. --82.31.164.172 (talk) 23:27, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  "In the UK, there has been criticism that an ASBO is sometimes viewed as a badge of honour by youth." 

message: This article says that Theresa_May wanted to reform ASBOs in 2010, but it has been on the news this month (May 2012) that she wants to ban them. If any one knows about this, it would help to update the article. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 20:23, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Theresa May's further reforms 2012

message: The statistic about people having "problems of subtance abuse or learning difficulties" is not good. It mixes up two completely different things. 88% of people who were carrying a shopping bag or a sub machine gun will agree with me. Johncmullen1960 (talk) 05:55, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: imprecise

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