Talk:Alexis de Tocqueville Institution

message: This is quite a fair write-up so far. I suggest people pissed off with ADTI's work should not affect the bias of this article but link to this article. - SalimFadhley
:I was gritting my teeth so hard I nearly broke a filling. I have taken care to link to all studies I could find linked on their appallingly-designed website or through Google, not just the open source ones. - David Gerard 20:46, May 20, 2004 (UTC)
Really good work in putting together a portfolio, all we need to do is get enough people to link to this page using the words "Alexis de Tocqueville Institution", and this will be the top search result on Google. --Salimfadhley 00:44, 21 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: The difficulty of NPOV in these troubling times

message: Are there any positive press articles on AdTI of any quality, i.e. that aren't press release reprints? - David Gerard 21:23, May 21, 2004 (UTC)
* No, I used to work in a related industry and believe me, the idea is to take advantage of the hackish tendencies of most IT journalists. They will tend to do the bare minimum of research, merely paraphrasing an agency press-release. If journalists paused to investigate what they are writing then the whole ADTI business model would collapse. --Salimfadhley 11:46, 23 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Positive press articles?

message: The article needs a section on this - their 1994 report was apparently used by a lot of tobacco companies at the time. See also Disinfopedia:AdTI-Funding for some info on this (though that would require a heavy-duty NPOVing for Wikipedia, and may constitute original research ;-) - David Gerard 13:23, May 27, 2004 (UTC)
: Acording to this blog article, Philip Morris released bunches of documents as part of their Tobacco Settlement Agreement, among them docs that could be construed as Philip Morris hiring ADTI to do PR. The documents seem to be genuine, as they're hosted on http://www.pmdocs.com/, and it sure does seem like that's what happened, but I have to wonder why no one reported on this, or challenged ADTI's non-profit status, if this is what actually happened. -- Khym Chanur 00:05, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed. The Disinfopedia article "AdTI-Funding" writes on this, but it's more notes for future investigative journalism than something we could point to as a source for such an assertion (even if it uses the term "damning circumstantial evidence"). The hard part will be writing a sensible paragraph or two on the subject that doesn't constitute original research - David Gerard 14:01, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Just took the Lambert blog article and turned it into a paragraph. Needs work. - David Gerard 21:53, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: AdTI and tobacco industry

message: I see this term is widely used, but fear it may verge on inherently POV. The status of think tanks and their backers is a variable spectrum ... What would be a few good examples of non-pseudo think tanks? - David Gerard 15:28, 31 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I've removed it, for now at least - pseudo think tank doesn't exist yet, and it smells a bit POV to me (accusation by statement). Also, I don't think it's necessary - their own works condemn them as much as is needed; a mere statement of the facts gets their character across - David Gerard 08:18, 8 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: "pseudo think-tank"

message: Has been started at Ken Brown. It's verging on gibberish at present. Could do with the above and info from his Disinfopedia article. Hurry, hurry! (I'm busy putting away the shopping and doing housework ...) - David Gerard 20:01, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I've imported the Disinfopedia article. It's a good one too. A lot of the newspaper articles linked from that article should be in this one too under "AdTI writings," I suspect - David Gerard 08:58, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Ken Brown article

message: That "Linux is a leprosy" quote is a doozy. Perhaps a sixth paragraph in the article about Ken Brown continuing the spat publicly. This piece also leads with a quote to confirm the statement in the article intro about the intended audience for AdTI's works.
Could we do with article on the term "hybrid source code"? Microsoft and Sun appear to be pushing the term, and it's apparently shown up in proposed legislation! (Details somewhere or other on Groklaw.) - David Gerard 08:18, 8 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: AdTI Samizdat reply

message: The assorted Groklaw articles on AdTI/Samizdat should probably be added to the criticism section. Although the crit. section is getting a bit long and may benefit from being cut down to really significant criticism (most quoted articles, articles that have become part of the story like the Tanenbaum ones). I'm reluctant to cut much though - it's all on-topic.
Although Groklaw is unashamedly partisan and stridently POV, right down to the article titles ... Note that some of the below are just reprints of other listed criticisms and may not be worth listing for themselves. Remove URLs from the list below as they're put into the article - David Gerard 08:18, 8 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Groklaw articles on AdTI

message: Jeez there's a lot of 'em. Articles, letters, position papers (i.e., unpublished articles), pages of links to more pages ... This stuff should be indexed here because AdTI has removed the index pages that used to link to it, though not the articles themselves. Remove URLs from the list below as they're put into the article.
The education work was clearly a major project and needs a good writeup. - David Gerard 08:18, 8 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: AdTI education papers

message: "This is complete garbage." *Minix site —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.191.208.195 (talk) 13:27, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Comment from Minix

message: Possibly useful content, entirely inelegant presentation. The AdTI quote isn't mirrored in full anywhere (heh!); I've pointed Alexa at it and it should show up on the Wayback Machine. Then we can just link to it in the AdTI writings - David Gerard 21:19, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: True, probably inelegant :) I figured it should go in there. I also got an email from Lee Gomes who told me he thought it was just normal mirroring. Good idea to get it archived though! - Ta bu shi da yu 06:22, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: You mean, of what Linux Today do? If Lee Gomes stated that publicly somewhere, or agreed to said email being released and put up somewhere, that should be referred to as well. "Gomes himself disagreed with this characterisation [1]." Or do you mean of us quoting it? - David Gerard 13:14, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Er, sorry. I meant it was a good idea to get the AdTI site archived. I suppose I could ask Gomes whether I could get an official response. - Ta bu shi da yu 03:40, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Trivia section

message: I cleaned up the article, in particular with regards to the Linux stuff. There were three or four separate sections that discussed this, which I consolidated as best I could. It might still need more editing to make it all fit together. Paul 16:05, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup 

message: Probably only notable staff should be listed here. At least one staff member links to a dab page on which he has no entry (Dan Evans). 2004 is a while ago.--A Y Arktos\talk 10:02, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Removed list--Golden Wattle  talk 21:11, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  2004 staff list 

message: The article on Kenneth Brown says he is the former president of AdTI. This article has not yet been updated with the new president's name.--Srleffler (talk) 22:26, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Apparently it folded in 2007, so by 2008 it wouldn't have had a new president. Kenneth Brown (author) was probably the last holder of the post.--CRConrad (talk) 08:36, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Current president? 

message: This article says it's based out of Washington. Yet AdTI says it's based out of Arlington, VA. http://www.adti.net/background/contacting.html (71.17.164.178 (talk) 02:32, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Location? 

message: The entire tobacco section is unsourced. The text makes reference to documents at Tobaccosecrets.org, which obviously has issues with WP:RS, and the section about "links" to other entities appears to be WP:Synthesis. The only thing salvageable out of the whole thing seems to be that AdT was definitely a member of the Cooler Heads Coalition.
Waiting for comments before I clean it all out. FellGleaming (talk) 02:13, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Numerous Issues 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified