Talk:Trojan War/Archive 1

message: Have you ever wondered about the Trojan Horse and whether it was true? I have. I believe in the story because there's a lot of proof.
such as? Adam 01:34, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trojan horse 

message: It seems as if the article places Diomedes' fight with Ares and Aphrodite after Hector's death and outside of the Iliad.  It was in the version of the Iliad I read, and took place before Hector's death.209.11.161.235 20:00, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chronology of Diomedes 

message: This is a very nice, detailed article with a lot of research. I noticed that the page article to tell the entire story of the war but implies that it is contained entirely in the Iliad. Everything after Hector's funeral comes from other sources, such as the Odyssey, as well as much later Greek poets and even Virgil. I was wondering if it would be best to mention that, somehow, since there is no classical source that tells the entire "story" and not all accounts agree in the details. -- Decumanus 18:32, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Likewise everything before the feud between Agamemnon and Achilleus, with a few important exceptions.  Various events are narrated retrospectively in the poem; and a fwe later event are quite clearly predicted, such as the death of Achilles and the (inevitable) Greek victory.  That said, there was once a much longer cycle of epic poems which told, it is conjectured, most or all of what's in here.
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I read a hypothesis that the Trojan Horse was actually a ship (with horse decorations?) with warriors passing the Dardanelles as if it were merchant. -- Error 00:43, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Which is the entire stoty?

message: Nice article... But the participants section seems to repeat alot of information. Participants on the trojan side, participants on the greek side, unknown side, participant/killer should all be combined into a single table - it should make things much easier. Anyone wanna do it?--Fangz 01:19, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reformat participants 

message: I find it confusing that some people in the "Participants" entry are simply related
to those who fought in the war, as opposed to people who directly fought in the war.
Example Andromache is the wife of Hector who fought in the war, not a fighter in the war. So if participating is fighting. Some people in those entries didnt participate in the war.
: I don't agree that participating = fighting.  Andromache may not have fought, but she was taken by Neoptolemus in the end as part of the "spoils". I would consider that "participating". But to avoid confusion, how about changing "Participants" to something like "Characters".  Ravenous 18:48, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Where fought Eurypylus, for both sides?!? --172.176.147.157 23:18, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, they are two different persons. --172.176.147.157 17:15, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Participants in the war 

message: I removed this from the introduction:
:However, in 1991 on the Greek Island of Kefalonia, just outside the city of Poros in the hamlet of Tzannata the city and tomb of Odysseus have been found.  In book XIX of the "Odyssey", described in detail is a gold brooch Odysseus was wearing on his return to Ithaca. A gold brooch meeting that precise description was discovered at the site.  It is now in the archeological museum at Argostoli, the main city on Kefalonia.
This doesn't belong in the introductory paragraph, but if a source can be provided for this information it might belong in some other part of this article, or in Odysseus. Sounds fairly fishy to me, though; a quick web search turns up almost nothing on this alleged tomb. --Akhilleus (talk) 23:07, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed material on "Odysseus' tomb" 

message: Does the "participants" section really need to be part of this article?  Might it be better to spin it out into a separate list article, called List of Trojan War participants or List of participants in the Trojan War?  It doesn't seem vital to an encyclopedic summary of the war to me. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 04:15, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: By all means, take that "participants" list to a separate article. Maybe call them "characters" instead of "participants" as well--to me "characters" seems more suitable for an event that is more literary/mythological than historical (no matter whether there was a historical Trojan War or not, we encounter it primarily through poetry and myth). Moreover, some of these characters (e.g. Kassandra) are unwilling victims rather than active participants. --Akhilleus (talk) 06:37, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Does List of Trojan War characters sound good? I guess I'll just be bold and create that — it can always be moved later if someone thinks of a better name. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 17:15, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Done.  I've moved the maps up and made them slightly smaller, to fit better alongside the text.  I'm a bit concerned about the legibility of the Troas map — it would be great if someone could find or provide a clearer map of the region, but I'm afraid that's beyond my abilities. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 17:44, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

text: I like the move to List of Trojan War characters. Some free maps of the classical world are available at the Ancient World Mapping Center, but there isn't a good detail map of the Troad there. I think the best bet is to find an old historical atlas or edition of the Iliad and scan in the map. N.b. I believe that "Troad" is more common in Anglo-American scholarship than "Troas". --Akhilleus (talk) 06:49, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course, so it is.  I was thoughtlessly copying the terminology from the current map on the page.  I don't have access to a scanner, so someone else will have to supply the map. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 01:17, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Participants revisited 

message: The section "The Trojan Horse" suggests that we have the story of the Trojan horse from Homer, which is not true. Did Homer even ever mention the Trojan horse? 23:55, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Try book 4 of the Odyssey. --Akhilleus (talk) 21:09, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Homer and the Trojan horse