Talk:Australia–Indonesia relations

message: I apologise if there is alredy an article that covers this, and if there is, please delete this one.
I also apologise for any disputed neautrality. I personally believe that the neautrality should be disputed and i intend to rectify the situation within the next three days. by thursday this article will be a fully formed wikipedia article with refrences, much more information, much more relevant information and a more neautral outlook. For now i simply wanted to get a few facts in and start the article.
I was also wondering if there was an article on how the climatic and geographical factors of indonesia affect Australias climate and more specificaly Perths climate.
AC Boy 03:29, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Earlier comments

message: This article is currently really, really shallow. It certainly glosses over the difficult relationship between that began during WW2 when Sukarno was installed as a Japanese puppet ruler and then decided to side with the Soviet Union after the war ended. The article should cover the aforementioned along with: 
* The Indonesia-Malaysia confrontation
* The West's fear (Australia's in particular) that a Soviet backed Indonesia could cause further conflict in the region
* Suharto's bloody rise to power and the Free World's support thereof
* Implicit and later explicit support from the Australian government of Indonesia's decision to annex East Timor
* Suharto's fall from power, which lead to Australia's UN backed campaign to liberate East Timor following the Indonesian military's ruthless occupation and destruction of it's infrastructure. Make sure to explain the deep mutual resentment that developed in the political cultures of both nations. 
* Several other incidents that have harmed or helped relations including the Bali Bombings and subsequent criminal prosecutions, Chapelle Corby, Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono's rise to power (he was the only major candidate who refused to play the anti-Australian demagogue in order to win votes), the Tsunami and Australia's unprecedented billion dollar aid package.
Aussie Jim 02:53, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: next comment

message: These I've removed from article. They appear to be planning comments which have some use. Although I think the POV/emotive language should be toned down, even for talk page...
===Strengths===
*Military cooperation
*Joint participation in peacekeeping ops
*Cultural and educational exchange
*How many Indo come to Aus to study?
*Aus sold out Timor for the benefit of Indo in '75
*Aus resisted precicipitate action when shit hit the fan in Timor in '99
*Tsunami appeal benificence '04/'05
===Challenges===
*Aus grants humanitarian protection to West Papuan splittists
*The fisheries line is still not finally delimited.
*There's no prisoner transfer agreement.
*?Differences about recognition of Taiwan?
*Indonesian bigamous marriages not recognised in Australia?, see Marriage Act
*Aus public perceptions of Indo, and vice versa.  Variance with Govt pronouncements?
*Aus mistrust(misunderstanding) of Indo legal system
*Indo mistrust of Aus motives in Timor, Irian.
*Indo not so deeply sucked into alliance with US.  Not in Afghan, not in Iraq.  
*Difference of language.  Is Indo a language taken up in Aus schools?
*Indo don't play cricket, rugby, AFL.  Aus don't play seepak takraw.  Soccer is the answer!
*Small size of Indo community in Aus.  Many more Lebs.
*Aus colonisation of Bali
*Aus broadcasting to Indo, ABC tried.  How can Indo appreciate brilliance of Roy and HG?
*Love to see an Indonesian version of Club Buggery!
*What Indo stories make it to press in Aus?  All about Schapelle Corby, drug *models and the Bali Nine.  Amrozi too
*Huntington thesis.  Clash of civilisation.  Aus/Indo 'civilisational fault line'
--Merbabu 04:45, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments removed from article

message: *Aus grants humanitarian protection to West Papuan splittists
*The fisheries line is still not finally delimited.
*There's no prisoner transfer agreement.
*?Differences about recognition of Taiwan?
*Indonesian bigamous marriages not recognised in Australia?, see Marriage Act
*Aus public perceptions of Indo, and vice versa.  Variance with Govt pronouncements?
*Aus mistrust(misunderstanding) of Indo legal system
*Indo mistrust of Aus motives in Timor, Irian.
*Indo not so deeply sucked into alliance with US.  Not in Afghan, not in Iraq.  
*Difference of language.  Is Indo a language taken up in Aus schools?
*Indo don't play cricket, rugby, AFL.  Aus don't play seepak takraw.  Soccer is the answer!
*Small size of Indo community in Aus.  Many more Lebs.
*Aus colonisation of Bali
*Aus broadcasting to Indo, ABC tried.  How can Indo appreciate brilliance of Roy and HG?
*Love to see an Indonesian version of Club Buggery!
*What Indo stories make it to press in Aus?  All about Schapelle Corby, drug *models and the Bali Nine.  Amrozi too
*Huntington thesis.  Clash of civilisation.  Aus/Indo 'civilisational fault line'
--Merbabu 04:45, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Challenges

message: This article's sections are all over the place. There appears to be no logical order. I don't know where to start.Merbabu 11:36, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wiki links, ie to Australia & Indonesia only need to be made once, the first time the word appears only. Not every time it appears. This is wikipedia standard. Merbabu 01:29, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: A mess

message: This Indonesian Revolution section, for example, reads like a list. Needs more prose/paragraph style - not just a recitation of dates. ie, this is an article, not a timeline. regards --Merbabu 03:46, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Relations during the Indonesian National Revolution

message: i have made a copyright release request to the Australian national archives for a picture of John Gorton and Suharton from 1968 to accompany this article.DavidYork71 06:26, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Great initiative! Merbabu 07:55, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Picture Request

message: Who can provide information here about what the Indonesia embassy says about travel to Australia, to balance the Australian embassy warning against travel to Indonesia. Firstly i dont know where to find it and if it exists, second it may be -probably is- in Bahasa languageDavidYork71 07:47, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed the idiotic commentary suggesting that it was unsafe for Australians to travel there and that this showed Indonesia was ungrateful for Australia's aid contribution. Oh, the Indonesian language is known as 'Indonesian'. The Indonesian word bahasa means 'language'. Merbabu 09:13, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The respective degree of contributions to ad hoc disaster relief appeals affecting either country is relevant to assessing the degree of mutuality in this relationship.  Also the issue of violence and victimisation affecting those who visit either way has some relevance to describing an aspect of it - which is why I've asked for the official Indonesian view on the safety of its nationals travelling to Australia. If it's known to you, please add in. The conclusion that Indonesia is especially unsafe for Australians (even after the $Bns commitments under AIP etc) is coming from the most recent DFAT travel advisory which does not seem to regard any part of Indonesia as safe for Australian visitors.  Compare it with the advisory for New Zealand (http://www.smartraveller.gov.au/zw-cgi/view/Advice/New_Zealand) Another aspect is threats and bombing attacks against the AUST Embassy, Jakarta; while I've not heard of similar behaviour by Australians against the INDO Embassy, Canberra.  All is relevant and should be included for building a comprehensive picture to give encylopaedic content to the article.  DavidYork71 12:37, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've commented in the edit summaries why I've removed your WP:OR that Indonesia doesn't reciprocate aid. Why don't you think Indonesia reciprocates? It's govt is bankrupt, and its GDP/capita is a small fraction of Aistralias - once again, rich country vs. poor country. Why would Indonesia give money to AUstralia farmers? That's hilarious and your own WP:OR. Furthermore, don't contrast Australian aid donations and perceived danger to Australians from terrorism unless you can find a source. It's your own opinion and thus invalid for wikipedia. It's not very difficult, really. the DFAT warnings are referenced, but they are a primary source. Merbabu 12:56, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

text: What Indonesians call it in Indonesian is irrelevant, this is in English. We don't call Indonesian 'Bahasa Indonesia' in English, just as we do not call German 'Deutsch'.Quiensabe (talk) 18:25, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Travel Advisory for Indonesians Coming to Australia

message: Something for the article? Article from the Sydney Morning Herald:  --Merbabu 14:44, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Current Australian visit to Indonesia

message: This section just seems to be a narration of events in 1999 that are amply discussed in other articles. I suggest that such rehashing is not the point of this article, rather this section should be developed to discuss the events' effects in Australia-Indonesia relations - the topic of this page. Ie, how did these events affect Aust-Indon relations? Merbabu 04:12, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: East Timor section

message: I removed  this from the article as it was a reference to Osama bin Laden's threats to Australia, the relevancy to this article I am not convinced. The source however, does seem to contain good info on other aspects Aust-Indon relations and cooperation. Including the Bali bombing investigation. --Merbabu 04:36, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources

message: The Lowy Institute, an Australian based international policy think tank has written several publications (available free on PDF) on Australian-Indonesian relations. Perhaps someone with more time could use them for this article.
Australia and Indonesia: current problems, future prospects
http://www.lowyinstitute.org/Publication.asp?pid=668
Australia and Indonesia compared
http://www.lowyinstitute.org/Publication.asp?pid=471
Pitfalls of Papua: understanding the conflict and its place in Australia-Indonesia relations
http://www.lowyinstitute.org/Publication.asp?pid=475
Dealing with a Democratic Indonesia
http://www.lowyinstitute.org/Publication.asp?pid=574
Australia-Indonesia Roundtable on the future of Australia-Indonesia relations
http://www.lowyinstitute.org/Publication.asp?pid=430
Staying the course: AusAID's governance performance in Indonesia
http://www.lowyinstitute.org/Publication.asp?pid=257  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.182.191.74 (talk) 18:52, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lowy Institute sources 

message: I made some changes to this page on Saturday that rearranged the structure of the headings to better match up with other bilateral relationships (something along the lines of this or this). You can see the differences between what I had contributed, and what was there before, here.
This included a table comparing the two countries, much more detail in the historical section (including addressing concerns raised above about things like the free trade agreement not getting a mention), and some changes to the structure of the article, since what's in there at the moment is a bit all over the place.
These edits were reverted due to a misunderstanding that they may have come from a banned user. It's now been established that isn't the case, and I'd like to discuss restoring them - I think they represented a significant improvement to what was there before, and I'm really keen to keep building on them to fill out the other sections of the page - ideally in the next few days while I have a little spare time. What are the opinions of other users? tim (talk) 22:35, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Changes to structure, further detail

message: The relationship between Australia and Indonesia is currently hostile, because of this. Don't get too mad with re-writing this article if it worsens to the point of war. 1.123.4.150 (talk) 05:36, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Relations Severed

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