Talk:EDO Corporation

message: Clarifying the reason for the removal of the the negative material. The criticism section needs to be rewritten. Removing this material is not vandalism and should not be call that by the editors that are re-inserting the highly critical material. Several sections are written with a tone that is unencyclopedic. For example "exposed" is not a neutral word but one meant to cause a negative impression. The criticism sections are much too long and detailed. The long quotes are not appropriate for a general encyclopedia article. 
These problems need to be addressed so that the article is well balanced and does not seen read as an attack piece. FloNight talk 20:34, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Unencyclopedic tone

message: Need to start over writing a more concise Criticism section using a more encyclopedic tone. FloNight talk 21:07, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Criticism section

message: Hello Editors of this article, Wikipedia has a policy against an editor reverting an article more than 3 times in 24 hours. A editor that reverts more than 3 times may be blocked from editing. This prevents edit wars and makes the article stable. If you continue to revert the article I will ask another administrator to block you. I will not do it myself because I have edited the article. 
The proper way to resolve the content conflict is to discuss the content on the talk page of the article. I'm going to try and find some more editors to help re-write the criticism section because it currently does met Wikipedia content standards.  Take care, FloNight talk 19:06, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The criticism sections need to be blanked and began anew. Some of the same material can be included but it needs to be rewrittnen to make it more encyclopedic and less like an investigative journalism. An encyclopedia article needs to hit the high points about all matters instead of going into detail about certain content and leaving other content out. IMO, all editors currently writing this article are not here to write an encyclopedia article, but here solely to add content that fits their point of view. That is the reason that we need different editors if the article is going to meet WP:NPOV. --FloNight talk 20:36, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[WP:3RR]] 

message: I restored most of the text with some minor cleanup, since at least some of the material appears historically significant. I did rewrite some of the more visible nonneutral edit summaries, but have yet to extensively look into the entry in its entirety. At a glance, I do find striking problems with the article. Many of the sections are textually imbalanced, are in gross noncompliance with  Wikipedia's Manual of Style, and lack concision. The plain link sources need to be converted into ref format (so we can see the titles/date/source in full at the bottom), a more neutral, matter-of-fact tone is also needed, and the overreliance on quotations must be greatly reduced. But before any of these issues can even begin to be addressed, the sterile edit war needs to end, with the contesting parties turning to the talk page (the participants need to sign their names after comments for clear attribution). Also, back and fourth reversions are discouraged, especially in light of the virtually total absence of edit summaries. If a compromise fails, please follow the steps outlined in Wikipedia's Dispute Resolution process. Thx in advance. El_C 21:14, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm dissapointed to see that reverts continue without any attempt at discussion. El_C 19:47, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

text: See Raytheon#Controversies and litigation as an ex. for what the criticism section/s should look like. El_C 19:50, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

text: We need to start a major cleanup of the entry, that is the first priority. The usernames of the contesting parties obviously imply single purpose editing, which usually means lack of exposure to the standards set for Wikipedia articles. This outside-the-purpose familiarization process nonetheless is something EDOtruth & EDOresearcher need to attend to. Thanks in advance. El_C 19:28, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Communication

message: El C is right - this entry needs cleanup all around.  Wikipedia standards and Wikipedia feedback on similar entries will be followed as closely as possible. -- Seafront 12 December 2006
===Removed items and reasons why===
First, many of the items in the 'Criticism' section are just that.  Some cleanup is required to remove words such as criticism, failed, lucrative, sacked, and information that will be cited as not true.  Wikipedia, to the best of my knowledge, is meant to be informative and not a place to focus on issues some writers have turned into scandals.  The "Criticism" items do seem bizarre when compared to numerous other companies, similar business and not. -- Seafront 12 December 2006
Lets begin with the comment below.  First and most importantly the link 1 which is cited does not work.  The item itself is not balanced and very one sided and does not belong "as is" in the article.  -- Seafront 12 December 2006
EDO President James M. Smith and the 2006 Executive Excess Report
On 30th August 2006, EDO Corporation Chairman, CEO, and President, James M. Smith, was named in a report produced by the Institute for Policy Studies and United for a Fair Economy, entitled 'Executive Excess'. Smith was reported as having received one of the highest percentage pay rises of any CEO in America, as a direct result of the 'War on Terror' since 2001. His total compensation in 2006 currently stands at $1.8 million dollars per year, up from $893,200 dollars in 2001. "Executive Excess 2006: Defense and Oil Executives Cash in on Conflict", Institute for Policy Studies, August 30, 2006 In July 2006 Smith filed SEC data showing he had sacked 400 workers at a factory in California after his management team had failed to secure a lucrative contract for anti-IED devices. In September 2003 EDO was listed by Fortune magazine as number 10 in the top 100 fastest growing companies in the US. "100 Fastest-Growing Companies", CNN, September 1, 2003 EDO have failed to make the top 100 at all in recent years because of financial troubles, brought about in no small part by a campaign of anti-war protest in Brighton, UK, which has cost EDO Corporation over 100 million dollars in market value since April 2006. 
===Item 2===
Forgive me for not having proper formats at times, but I am focusing more on the content.  Again, the term scandal is used here.  But lets get more in depth.  This entire document is commentary - ex. dumb politicians, controversy has arisen, lucrative.  First Wikipedia mentions that quoting articles at length is not a good tactic.  Some of it digresses to other issues and makes assumptions.  Please separate the commentary and shorten it up.  I look forward to reaching a middle ground here.   -- Seafront 12 December 2006
The 'Earmark' contracts scandal
EDO Corporation have made payments from its Political Action Committee, to the political funds of both, Republican Party and Democratic Party candidates, but these have tended to be to dumb politicians, who are on important government military defense and procurement committees. Controversy has arisen over contributions, to Senators Hilary Clinton, Charles Schumer and Congressman Steven Israel, who have then backed 'earmarked' government military contracts for EDO Corporation, soon afterwards. On December 27th 2005 The New York Sun reported that:
Many of the companies and executives who won earmarks this year donated money not only to Senator Clinton, who sits on the Senate Armed Services Committee, and to Mr. Schumer, but also to Mr. Israel. And several of those designated for earmarks gave to members of the Joint Defense Appropriations Conference Committee]], which wrote the New York projects into the defense spending bill. 
On 20 September 2006, the New York Sun reported EDO had gained further lucrative government defense contacts after giving financial donations to Washington insiders. "Lobby Group Gains Earmarks Through Use of Insider Staff", New York Sun, September 20, 2006
===Item 3===
These sections read more like a Partnership Section and maybe we can work on setting that up.  Then again the Cohen Group does not need to be its own part of the EDO article.  Just random notes now, but it is already mentioned that EDO supplies sonar equipment.  Two of EDO's board members are named here and that's a great idea and in time it can be its own section.  I ask though, what is the end purpose of the information below?  
Let's hope El C or another wikipedia member can help us out on all of these issues.  -Seafront 6 December 2006 
Relations with the Cohen Group 
EDO Corp. also has two directors employed in senior positions with the Cohen Group set up by the former Secretary of Defense William Cohen, a former Republican senator appointed by Bill Clinton. The President and CEO of the Cohen Group is EDO Corp. director Robert S. Tyrer while its senior counselor, is a retired general and now also an EDO Corp director, Paul J. Kern. The Cohen Group is employed as a lobby group in Washington by the largest defence companies in the world, including Lockheed Martin, General Dynamics, Rolls-Royce and many other international corporations, including Alcoa and Bechtel, to influence the US federal government in the interests of the arms industry, and other corporate interests. "The Cohen Group on 'Lobbying Disclosure'", United States House of Representatives
Israeli subsidiary
According to SEC filings as recently as 1998 EDO Corporation had a subsidiary company in Israel, called EDO Operations (Israel) Ltd. Since 1998, EDO no longer list the company as a subsidiary. "EDO Corp. list of subsidiaries", Form:10-K405, 1998
At the Farnborough Airshow 2006, EDO publicized the fact that they directly deal with the Israeli arms company Elta. "EDO Farnborough Fun- Kids go free", Indymedia, July 25, 2006
EDO Technical Services Operations client list includes the Israeli Ministry of Defense. "EDO's Clients", EDO Corporation 
EDO Corp use at least one Israeli sub-contarctor to manufacture components inside Israel. "Main customers", Tefen Metal Castings
EDO Corp supply the Israeli Navy sonar equipment. "EDO ALOFTS Towed-Array Sonar for Israel", Defense Industry Daily, March 17, 2006 In 2001 EDO were granted a sole source contract to supply spare parts for the Israeli F15I. Through its UK subsidiary EDO MBM Technology Ltd, EDO supply equipment for the Israeli F16 fighter, notably the Zero Retention Force Arming Units  for the F16 VER-2 bomb rack. (see below)
===Item 4===
The content here seems to be more of a personal attack (prohibited by Wikipedia) on one individual.  This is a company summary.  If not, what then prohibits someone else from coming in and writing the entire life story about every board member or top executive who has ever been in the news.  Adding to this, the incidents listed below occurred before Kern joined EDO.  And then the article goes off on a tangent about the appalling Abu Ghraib incident. -- Seafront
Allegations of war crimes: Abu Ghraib and Titan Corporation
While still serving in the US military General Paul Kern]] was appointed by Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to report on an internal investigation into the Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse. In September 2004 he produced a written statement largely absolving the military hierarchy of blame for the torture and sexual abuse. "Statement by General Paul Kern, commanding General, United States Army Material Command, before the Armed Services Committee", September 9, 2004  Kern blamed the torture in part on the civilian contractors working with military intelligence services in the prison. One of the companies involved was identified as Titan Corporation, a contractor which supplies technology and 'civilian interogators' to military intelligence. (The company has close links to the US intelligence community. Former CIA director James Woolsey has served on its board of directors.) However Kern did not advise that Titan Corporation should be charged with any criminal offence. The full Taguba Report into the investigation was kept secret until it was leaked and  is now available here. Several low ranking US soldiers were convicted of torture, and imprisoned as a result of the investigations. Meanwhile Titan Corporation sacked one of their employees Adel Nakhla who had admitted holding down prisoners who were being tortured. Another Titan employee John Israel, a 'civilian interogator/interpreter' identified by the Taguba Report as one of the four main people believed to have been responsible for the torture is suspected by some journalists including Robert Fisk of being an Israeli agent. "The Trail of Torture: The Things Bush Didn't Say in His Speech", Counterpunch, May 26, 2004"Who is Behind the Abuse at Abu Ghraib?", Truth Seeker, May 6, 2004
Kern retired shortly after the report came out and in January 2005 joined EDO Corporation as a director. Two of the other ten EDO Corporation directors who helped to elect him, James Roth and Robert M. Hanisee, were, and remain directors of Titan Corporation and as directors are open to charges of collusion and direct involvement in war crimes according to US Law, but they have not been prosecuted by the United States legal system. However despite a lack of political will by the US Government to prosecute them Titan Corporation and CACI are nonetheless defendants in a civil action brought by victims of the 
torture in Abu Ghraib Prison. "Al-Rawi v. Titan Corporation", United States district court, 2004 "Ibrahim, et al., v. Titan Corporation, et al.", United States district court, 2005 Also in 2005, Titan Corp. admitted bribery charges after it paid 2 million dollars into the re-election fund of the President of Benin, Mathieu Kérékou.
"US company admits Benin bribery", BBC, March 2, 2005 Kern is also a member of the Cohen Group which has as its CEO another EDO Corp director, Robert S. Tyrer.
===Item 5===
This is not about the Joint Strike Fighter or a contract.  Information with a headline like that should include more information about the aircraft, products, etc.  Also the section is not written with a neutral POV.  Seafront 17:53, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Working to Improve It

message: This is not about the Joint Strike Fighter or a contract.  Information with a headline like that should include more information about the aircraft, products, etc.  Also the section is not written with a neutral POV.  Seafront 17:53, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Item 5

message: This piece is all over the place.  Again, a majority of the lengthly section focuses on one person, Blair.  However, it is a recent event that mentioned the company and therefore part of this section's information was left in the article. Again as in the previous sections, a lot of information was quoted at length even though links to the referenced materials already exist.  It also contained conflicting information.  It says that Blair did not quit the "military contractors" and then it says he did.  He left EDO before leaving IDA.  Seafront 21:31, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Item 6

message: Someone came on this page earlier and suggested that all of the items now on the discussion page should be forked over to a new area as the article is not an "expose of the evil Edo company."  But, I am trying to reach a middle ground here.
It is clear from the extensive writings about Brighton that these postings are due to current events there.  And this is probably why it seems like the sections are being written from a single activist source.  This wikipedia article needs to be updated to follow the wikipedia standards.  It is not written in a NPoV.  I will come back to it later.  Seafront 22:35, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Item 9

message: Can I have some assistance in editing this down significantly! Seafront 22:55, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Item 10

message: What can be said at this point that has not been addressed already.  Looking forward to a discussion.  Seafront 23:00, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Item 11

message: Why must such detail be included about another organization.  Maybe a solution is to sumarize it down to a few sentences and just include more reference links.  The Brighton sections are too in depth to touch -- don't want to be accused of censorship.  Looking forward to a discussion.  Seafront 23:13, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Item 12

message: It is not good form to not tell us who you are when you make comments. Please sign and date your posts using four tildes (~~~~). As far as changes, too often people take personal grudges and bias to Wikipedia. This article should be pretty vanilla, who these people are, not an expose of the evil Edo company. A separate article of the specific controversies can be forked off to cover this. Dominick (TALK) 15:01, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sign and an observation

message: Wikipedia has a WP:Manual of Style that directs how articles should be formatted. I have formatted this article (again) according to this manual. Please do not change it back. It will be a waste of time for everybody. Here are a few key points:
# Sub-headings within and article follow "sentence case", not "title case", i.e., "The quick brown fox", not "The Quick Brown Fox". Of course, where there are proper nouns such as people's name, or the names of a company's divisions, they remain capitalized as they would in any ordinary sentence. See WP:MOSHEAD for more detail. 
# Links to other articles should not appear in sub-headings within an article. they should appear in the text of the section instead. See WP:MOSHEAD for more detail. 
# To create a space between paragraphs, two "hard returns" are needed.
# There is no need for more that two hard returns to create space between sections -- two is enough. 
# Dates should be expressed in the format: "December 13, 2006" or "13 December 2006", not :December 13th" or other variations. See also WP:DATE.
# Acronyms such as CIA should be spelled out at the first use. 
I hope this helps. Ground Zero | t 23:24, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Formatting

message: I can't be involved here and help mediate, nor am I a mediator. This seems to be an article that lost a lot of focus due to one article activist editors. If the events in this are newsworthy on thier own they should get articles of their own that link here, not have considerable space on this article. This should be a pretty boring article on EDO and the statistics. I think the neutrality sections are misflagged they really should be removed as these specific incidents didn't have a big impact on EDO or are newsworthy on their own. Wikipedia is not a collection of random facts. Dominick (TALK) 13:52, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussion 

message: On 18 Dec. 06, the user 81.98.155.11 IGNORED all of the reasons several editors gave when they made numerous updates and then refused to discuss his/her rv in this talk page.  The same user brought back the bizarre and lengthly attack page against EDO Corporation.  For these reasons, the rv was made to bring back the article -- 22:58, 14 December 2006 SmackBot.  I look forward to seeking a solution to the changes being made by a person highly critical of a company's small unit in Brighton, UK.  Seafront 16:00, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  History 

message: I merged the criticism article to here, since it makes no sense to have a whole article dedicated to criticism of this company. This article still needs a lot of work, the criticism section seems very unbalanced. In addition I am proposing merging of the article EDO MBM Technology v. Smash EDO campaign to here. Marokwitz (talk) 06:12, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I oppose merging EDO MBM Technology v. Smash EDO campaign to here. I thank Chesdovi for making it a report of a court case, where both sides can be presented, and so preventing a POV fork. There is no need to bloat this article any more by including the court case here. --NSH001 (talk) 08:43, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism article merged to here 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on EDO Corporation. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070508162718/http://pmddtc.state.gov:80/Consent%20Agreements/2004/EDO%20Corporation/Draft%20Charging%20Letter.pdf to http://www.pmddtc.state.gov/Consent%20Agreements/2004/EDO%20Corporation/Draft%20Charging%20Letter.pdf
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20060207110520/http://www.exhibitions.sibat.mod.gov.il:80/ParisAirShow/UploadDocs/News/ELBIT7.PDF to http://www.exhibitions.sibat.mod.gov.il/ParisAirShow/UploadDocs/News/ELBIT7.PDF
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 14 external links on EDO Corporation. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070927012304/http://www.faireconomy.org/reports/2006/ExecutiveExcess2006.pdf to http://www.faireconomy.org/reports/2006/ExecutiveExcess2006.pdf
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thread_title:  External links modified