Talk:Chaos (Warhammer)

message: If Slaanesh is neither male nor female, why does the page description alternate between referring to Slaanesh as "he" and "she?"  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.182.101.239 (talk) 11:16, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: In modern proper English the only singular pronouns are "he" and "she".  "It" is a neuter pronoun.  But "it" is not used to refer to intelligent entities (unless the speaker intends to demean the subject).The Goat (talk) 20:16, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Slaanesh

message: Is it worth noting that all of the 4 chaos gods are repersented by primary numbers? Also that khorne and slaanesh are both repersented by even numbers, when nurgle and tzzench are repersented by odd numbers?
:Not really, especially considering only one of them (Nurgle) is represented by a prime number (I assume that's what you meant).... ;) --DarthBinky 14:54, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, I believe what the poster meant was they all have their own "mystic" number.  I can't remember what the numbers are atm, but I know Khornes was 8, and units/regiments that were made up of that number (or in later rules, multiples of that number) got a bonus (free Aspiring Champion in 40K for example). Darkson - BANG! 23:43, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Chaos gods and Primary numbers

message: I was wondering if we could establish a set plan for each of the gods pages. Also I was wondering if anyone would like to help me clear up Hashut's and Malal's descriptions which are just blocks of type. - Puppet Master
:If you look, I recently did cleanups on the four major god articles (such as Khorne); I tried to standardize them so they all appear about the same, and follow the guidelines of WP:WAF.  I would have done this for Hashut and Malal as well, but I don't have the books that give any info about them, so I wouldn't know what parts are canon and what parts are just fan speculation/theory. --DarthBinky 15:23, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Malal article cleaned up. (to the best of my abilities) Sixhundredandsixtysix 20:37, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks a lot better.  I just did a little fixing to it too, mainly removing speculation, weaselisms and a section that really didn't have anything to do with Malal- not to mention that it's already discussed at Chaos (Warhammer). --DarthBinky 21:35, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, looks very good indeed. However I'm wondering if the link to Zuvassin shouldn't be mentioned? After all the original manuscript to the supplement "Something rotten in Kislev" featured Malal, but because of the IP-question Graeme Davis came up with Zuvassin (). So, to just put the subject in context perhaps... Sixhundredandsixtysix 09:20, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We should probably be discussing this over at the talk for Malal, but yeah, that does seem appropriate.  I'd probably add a brief mention of that and appropriate linkage to the first paragraph of the "continue existence" section- that seems to me to be the best place for it. --DarthBinky 13:53, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: God page settup

message: Where do the relations between the Chaos Gods and elements come from?  I've never seen these and they don't make much sense, as the Chaos Gods are representation of imbalanced and primal sentient emotions, rather than fundamental forces.  They don't match exactly, either.  For example Tzeentch favors magical fire in many spells (in both games) and is often portrayed ringed or surrounded by eldtritch flame.  
If this only appears in a single source, I'd be inclined to chalk it up to inconsistency on the part of an author and remove these.  --Morskittar 22:17, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Chaos Gods and elements

message: ... using the same 8-pointed star worn by Conan the barbarian in the movie of the same name ...
To my knowledge, the 8-pointed star of Chaos was an invention of Michael Moorcock and thus predates the Conan film. This coincides with the Symbol of Chaos article. I thus removed the line given above. --Huon 12:59, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conan and the Chaos star 

message: I just did a pretty hefty rewrite of this article.  I am giving a summary here because the edit summary is probably too short to cover it.
* I removed a lot of extraneous info that is found elsewhere.  For example, the details of the various Gods was removed, since each god has its own article and the same info is found there (where it should be).  I also streamlined the info that was left to make it more encyclopedic.
* I removed speculative comments about the origins of various things (such as links between GW's Chaos and the fiction of Moorcock and Lovecraft).  While those origins are most likely true, they are ultimately unverifiable, and add little to the article.
Moorcock invented the eight pointed star as symbol of chaos. GW is using an eight pointed star as symbol of Chaos. At least this link should be left. Ossoduro 22:23, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You missed the point.  Like I said, it's probably true that they used that as an influence.  But can you point to something in print (an interview with one of the developers, etc) that says specifically that they used that as a source?  If not, it's called "unverifiable information", and does not belong here, despite the strong similarities.  Cheers. --DarthBinky 05:17, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

text: That's not the definition of verifiable information.  If it says in a book or article in a magazine or something like that that they definitely used him as a source for that, then yes, it's VI.  Otherwise it's technically speculation- it's entirely possible that they came up with their own version of the star, or that they borrowed it from someone else (who may have borrowed it from Moorcock).  I've already said it twice- it's probably true that they got the idea from Moorcock, but you can't prove it, aside from the strong resemblance (which isn't enough).  Besides, as I also mentioned, mentioning the (likely) sources doesn't really add anything to the article- so Moorcock was their inspiration for the star- so what?  --DarthBinky 15:56, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In an edition of the french white dwarf (dont remember the page nor the date sorry) answering a question about the "Tolkien Influence" (question was to sum it "Why don't you recognize the influence of the Tolkien influence in Warhammer, look at the loren forest, the name Eldar the ..." ) the staff answered that while there was for sure a tolkien influence in the edification of the Warhammer Fantasy and 40k Universe, there was also influence from other author. And if I correctly remember (translate : I can't find the issue so someone else will have to find it, normally "White dwarf" issues are translated so it should be the same newspaper in France and in England) they clearly named Moorcock as one of the major influence on the Warhammer Fantasy/40k Universe. The guy answering those question (he called himself the white dwarf, but should be a staff member from gw) probably won't be one of the people working on the Warhammer Universe background (like Andy Chambers). Esurnir 00:37, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  cleanup 

message: I seem to remember reading in an old White Dwarf article that Nurgle is, bizarrely, the God of Hope.  Can anyone else remember this, as it seems to contradict with the description given to Nurgle here?  I'll try to find out my old WD, but most of them are packed away. Darkson - BANG! 15:18, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nurgle - God of Hope? 

message: Corrected information regarding Kweethul and Nurgle. Kweethul was mainly used as an example for creating DIY chaos gods and has no (obvious) link to Nurgle or the Horned Rat. Sixhundredandsixtysix 14:26, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Reverted the latest edit regarding Kweethul and the Horned rat. The Horned Rat was introduced (along with the Skaven race) in the 1986 Citadel Journal. The Realm of Chaos: Lost and the Damned sourcebook was printed in 1990. Thus the concept of the Horned Rat predates Kweethul by 4 years. In my copy of Lost and the Damned there is no mention of Nurgle as a patron deity of Kweethul Gristlegut. He is used purely as an example for a DIY daemon patron, without any reference to any of the other Chaos Gods. If anyone has a copy which says differently, please state which edition and page reference and I'll gladly look it up. Sixhundredandsixtysix 08:24, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kweethul 

message: Please cite which edition of WFRP and on which page Malal is named as "the fifth chaos god". I can not find this in my copy. Sixhundredandsixtysix 21:32, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It was in the first edition WFRP (first printing?), only a paragraph alongside khorne and Nurgle (iirc).  Unfortunately, I can't give a proper reference, as my original copygot destroyed in a water leak. :( Darkson - BANG! 15:48, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Too bad about your copy. In my surviving copy (the first edition hardback one) from 1986 Malal is mentioned, but not that he's number 5. In fact, when I checked all my references there's no mention of "fifth" at all. I would think this is because the idea of the "four great powers of chaos" was not really introduced until 1988 with the first of the Realm of Chaos books. And Malal was (sorta) out of the game by then. In fact the only ranking I've found so far is a small passage that could place him as the first of the chaos gods. IIRC it was something like "He who came first now came last.." or similar... Sixhundredandsixtysix 07:15, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Good point. From what I know the copyright issue is uncertain rather than contested. This question was raised by Graeme Davis (then at GW) and was the reason he came up with Zuvassin(). I'll change the wording in the article. Sixhundredandsixtysix 09:31, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I had personal correspondence with GW regarding Malal, whome I wrote a scenario for Advanced Heroquest and sent to them for considerstion (circa 1990) - they clearly stated that they didn't own the copyright. Perhaps the original Kaleb Daark comics in Citadel Journal show the copyright. --Davémon (talk) 07:44, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Malal 

message: Although I know characters can swear allegiance to a ruinous power and gain power this way, I have never found any reference where it states that upon death, the soul goes to the Chaos God's realm in question for eternal torment (ie, hell). Please add a reference to where this can be found.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.85.127.152 (talk) 11:06, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Souls sworn to Chaos god go to godly realm for torment?

message: I have removed the "WH-in-universe" tag, since I feel this article now quite clearly describes the subject matter from an out-of-universe POV.SpectrumDT (talk) 21:44, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed the "WH-in-universe" tag

message: The article of that name redirects here, which seems inappropriate, as this article contains little information on the Warp itself.
DaGeekyNerd (talk) 05:01, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Immaterium  

message: This article states that the four Chaos gods are created from the negative emotions of mortal beings. While this doubtlessly sounds very nice and dandy, I believe the correct term is "extreme" emotions, or emotional extremes. The concept of "negative" emotions is very New-Age mumbo jumbo, and doesn't actually fit in with the fluff. (Tzeentch for example is noted as being a god of hope, and Khorne a god of activity) When these emotions become extreme however, the end result is what we would call "negative".
Am I righyt in this or is this fan conjecture? - Sir_Godspeed
:You are very technically correct, and such an edit I shall make. However, I would like to say that most sources cite Khorne as almost universally the god of bloodshed, violence, and quick and bloody death. What is usually said is that Tzeentch is the god of change, which is related to the emotion of hope, Slaanesh the god of lust, Nurgle the god of decay, general pessimism, and Khorne the god of blood. One can then debate on whether or not they are 'negative' in the sense of overall effect on humanity, or just extreme, as you said.
:Directly following this post I will edit such things.
:Also, sign your posts with four tildes, located above the tab key, which is accessed by SHIFT + `. Like this: The Arguer 11:08, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Edit: I'm stupid for not looking over the article first. I read the beginning section and did not see anything that claimed they were manifested out of negative emotions, simply that they had worshipers that gave them power until they came into existence. The theory of good/bad daemons states that negative should have a positive counterpart, but unless someone has edited it before I, that is the only part of the article that says 'negative'. Sorry. The Arguer 11:13, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: "Negative emotions"

message: Can we have a source on Melkirth? "Old material" and "Dark Eldar" in the same description make it sound fishy 74.96.245.7 (talk) 14:17, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Melkirth 

message: Art the Imperial Saints warp entities perse? It was my thinking that many of them were persons filled with either immense warp energy, or the pychic energy of the Emperor, not creatures from the warp. That some saints are known to have existed after death-ie the way Saint Sabbat manifests through visions and in the bodies of at least two others long after her death-could mean that they are warp entities and cannot be trully destroyed, but it could also just be a reflection on the great pychic powers that they held-in the novel "Eye of Terror" it is implied that people could become warp entities after death, though those may just have been daemons manifesting as the dead. So is it that the Saints are people that hold immense warp power- at least a portion of which is from the Emperor- a power which can lead to them being able to return from death in another's form after they presumbaly become something akin to warp daemons in substance, or that they are indeed creatures of the warp in human form which can remain in the material universe due to the faith of the Imperial people-like the way daemons keep their hold on reality through bloody rituals-, or perhaps they are merely portions of the Emperor's will given form; the Emperor himself being made up on numerous consiounesses and being able to split parts of his pychic energy away from the whole?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.153.196.41 (talk) 01:56, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Imperial Saints 

message: Realm of Chaos (Warhammer) is a pretty clear fork of this, and Chaos Space Marines have major problems with Wikipedia:Notability (fiction). They should all be merged here, IMHO. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 21:14, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Given no objections over more than a year, merged in for Realm of Chaos (Warhammer). Klbrain (talk) 21:31, 18 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge