Talk:Espionage Act of 1917

message: I struck the following text:
:In 1988, United States v. Morison CBS, judges recognized that in order to prevent the Act from merely being used to protect government officials from embarrassment, some showing needed to be made the release of specific information had the potential to harm U.S. interests. "This must be so", said Judge James Dickson Phillips "to avoid converting the Espionage Act into the simple Government Secrets Act which Congress has refused to enact." United States v. Morison CBS
I didn't think it was particularly on point, as it was in a concurrence in a circuit court proceeding, signed by only one judge. Judge Phillips went on to say that the government had met its burden of proof in this case. The majority wanted a more lenient standard for the government; Phillips was dissenting from that view. The use of this quotation is like quoting the dissent in Roe in an article about abortion laws. Kingnavland (talk) 04:22, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Phillips is asserting that Congress saw at least a theoretical distinction between the Espionage Act and a Government Secrets Act. In his concurring remarks, he attempts to establish a minimal (albeit vague) legal standard to tell them apart in the future. It has did this by way of referring to the prior actions of Congress itself, and not by citing personal beliefs about morality, or equivocating on the exact meaning of a term in order to obtain new outcome; clearly, he already agreed with the outcome. This seems quite unlike the Roe analogy. Whether Phillips succeeded in framing future interpretations remains to be seen, but it is at least likely enough and important enough to warrant inclusion in this article. A better analogy would be citing judicial remarks that shape which standards of evidence are used, when, and why (e.g.: "beyond a reasonable doubt" versus "clear and convincing evidence", versus "preponderance of evidence"). Seen this way, I hope you'd agree Judge Phillips remarks are germane here. I'm not sure what could make this much clearer in my citation other than to call attention to the fact that the were concurring remarks. If that contextualizes reference in a way that makes its relevance more obvious, then let's consider the article improved. JonDePlume (talk) 19:45, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

text: A quick search on the cultural importance of this distinction by prominent figures turned up a rather nice article by John Dean on FindLaw. I'll work this in, along with other such links, so we can help prevent further confusion. I will say that the presumption of "original research" doesn't sound particularly charitable, particularly since the John Dean article turned up on my first try using the google search: "Espionage Act versus Government Secrets Act", along with plenty of others. I do take your idea of new section as a good one, but had you simply felt the need for more references (and possibly a reorg), I think it would be more in keeping with the  deletion policy of Wikipedia to solicit this first, before treating the entire body of text as unsalvageable and removing it. I believe this is especially true in the politically charged context of the Wikileaks / Julian Assange case, where opinions tend to polarize, and various factions have resorted to absolutist thinking, revisionism, and outright censorship of opposing views. A "make it perfect or get rid of it completely" policy works quite well on some articles, but runs a clear risk partisan thrashing on others. For that reason, I think it makes more sense to err on the side of "iterative refinement/augmentation" in this case, lest we invite someone who actually is a vandal to attempt something foolish. JonDePlume (talk) 17:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  US v. Morison CBS 

message: I need to understand how and under which clauses of this federal act the United States Attorney General, Eric Holder, can propose to prosecute Mr Assange, a foreign national who has apparently committed no crime on Americal soil. Or is the United States of America so all-powerful that it can reach beyond its own national boundaries into the jurisdictions of other independent national states? Just what interpretation is being applied here: does the commission of an - as yet unproved - crime abroad, whose effects are as yet quite unknown (apart from causing some acute embarrassment and inconvenience to a number of international figures) give the USA the entitlement to persecute (I use this word with intent, because that is precisely what is happening) a foreign citizen because someone in your country believes his actions might impact on the USA?
Most obscene is that certain prominent figures in the USA are advocating an extra-judicial execution of Mr Assange for his perceived 'crime'. span class="autosigned">—Preceding unsigned comment added by Geoff.powers (talk • contribs) 20:42, 7 December 2010.
The only mention I have found of the 1917 espionage act being used against Mr. Assange are comments made by Mr. Assange. I have to wonder at this point if his situation should be included with this article. -Phil-
The information you seek is on the page, and a more detailed explanation can be found by following the links on the page. I don't see how I am helping you to overcome your laziness by telling you that Alfred Zehe was arrested and convicted in 1983, even though he was German, and had supposedly committed crimes in Germany and Mexico. The part of the law that perhaps does not apply to Assange as it did to Zehe is that Assange could make a convincing case that he did not intend to cause harm to the US. In fact, he could (and many others would agree with it) make the claim that publishing (not stealing) the documents was designed to strengthen the US by allowing its citizens to be more thoroughly informed- a well informed public is more dangerous to a government than a well armed militia. 124.149.100.88 (talk) 12:06, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: The Julian Assange Case

message: Needs better sourcing and then better writing. Here's one source: NPR: Wikileaks, the Law and the Press. Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 22:13, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  SHIELD Act 

message: I changed the sub-title of "Reagan Administration" to "1980s" and removed other references to "Reagan Administration", since no other administration is named. It may be better to go through this and change all the headings to the names of the administration that was in charge at the time. Since it is a Presidential appointee, the Attorney General, that would charge someone under this act, it would make sense to organize the article in this way. Since that would take a lot of time (and change the flow of the page) I thought it best to see what you all think. By decade? Administration? Other method?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.58.240.20 (talk) 06:57, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed references to Reagan Administration 

message: I check pages listed in :Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of :Espionage Act of 1917's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "rad1":
From Trailblazer Project: 
Too Classified to Try Myth in Failed Drake Prosecution, Jesselyn Radack, DailyKos, 6/11/11
From Thomas Andrews Drake: 
Jesselyn Radack OpEdNews - Article: Wash. Post Profile: Thomas Drake (An NSA Whistleblower We Would Have Cheered During the Bush Years). www.opednews.com, Retrieved 2011-03-10
From Silent witness rule: 
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 10:51, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orphaned references in [[:Espionage Act of 1917]] 

message: It's premature to add Snowden until he's been indicted, but... I'm having trouble making sense of this quote from the Washington Post: "This White House [Obama] is responsible for bringing six of the nine total indictments ever brought under the 1917 Espionage Act. Snowden will be the seventh individual when he is formally indicted."  I count a lot more than nine in this article. So what are they talking about? Kendall-K1 (talk) 00:10, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Done This issue is now clarified in our Wikipedia article under the subsection 21st Century, which explains: "Under the Obama administration, seven Espionage Act prosecutions have been related not to traditional espionage but to either withholding information or communicating with members of the media. Out of a total eleven prosecutions under the Espionage Act against government officials accused of providing classified information to the media, seven have occurred since Obama took office." JohnValeron (talk) 04:58, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Snowden 

message: In my opinion this article requires more (if not more, have existing) citations or references to cover the article. Yes, you are asking yourself what am I trying to say? I'll break it down... The quote from President Woodrow Wilson is that cited or referenced by No. 4? Which citation or reference is the two points after "It made it a crime:"? The second paragraph in Amendments, which reference? First paragraph in "History: World War I". Paragraph 2, in "Red Scare, Palmer Raids, mass arrests, deportations" the last paragraph in the same section. Now to the "Mid-20th century Soviet spies", first and second paragraph. The majority of "Soviet spies, late 20th century" does it need additional? The second containing "Other spies of the 1990s". Paragraph 3 in "21st century". I hope someone can help me with this. Maybe the citations or references can be moved around or new added. Adamdaley (talk) 06:48, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations / References 

message: Hello,
First time I write to WP. I am a true fan of knowledge accessible to all, so supporter of WP.Therefore I must react when I see wrongful information. These errors must be changed rapidly so the WP can remain truthful.
Here's the error:
"Under the Obama administration, seven Espionage Act prosecutions have been related not to traditional espionage but to either withholding information or communicating with members of the media. Out of a total eleven prosecutions under the Espionage Act against government officials accused of providing classified information to the media, seven have occurred since Obama took office"
Please note AND CHANGE: UNDER THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION THERE WERE 9 INDIVIDUALS CHARGED WITH ESPIONAGE NOT 7 AS STATED. . 
Thank you
M 
 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Madiewiki (talk • contribs) 12:40, 26 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[21st century] 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Espionage Act of 1917. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160516015330/https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/history/famous-cases/the-year-of-the-spy to https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/history/famous-cases/the-year-of-the-spy
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 8 external links on Espionage Act of 1917. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120614083149/http://www.bostonphoenix.com/boston/news_features/this_just_in/documents/01710021.htm to http://www.bostonphoenix.com/boston/news_features/this_just_in/documents/01710021.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110718113131/http://www.hanford.gov/oci/maindocs/ci_r_docs/earlpitts.pdf to http://www.hanford.gov/oci/maindocs/ci_r_docs/earlpitts.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120118004248/http://www.commentarymagazine.com/article/has-the-%E2%80%9Cnew-york-times%E2%80%9D-violated-the-espionage-act/ to http://www.commentarymagazine.com/article/has-the-%E2%80%9Cnew-york-times%E2%80%9D-violated-the-espionage-act/
*Added archive https://archive.is/20130129003222/http://archivists.metapress.com/content/9m260j244177p553/ to http://archivists.metapress.com/content/9m260j244177p553/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080221214814/http://jya.com/dsb100998.htm to http://www.jya.com/dsb100998.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101225224553/http://eyespymag.com/espionage%20cases/atomspy1.htm to http://www.eyespymag.com/espionage%20cases/atomspy1.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110203210117/http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/50C4.txt to http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/50C4.txt
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110514024909/http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/history/famous-cases/the-atom-spy-case/the-atom-spy-case to https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/history/famous-cases/the-atom-spy-case/the-atom-spy-case
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 16:24, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Do it. Quaquaquarice (talk) 13:04, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: If you think you can add a referenced section then add it yourself. We are not at your disposal to do things you think should be done.  ~ GB fan 13:47, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please add an 'In popular culture' section 

message: The DOJ has made a motion to unseal the warrant for the Mar-a-Lago search. There is a good chance it will implicate the espionage act. As such it would be a good idea to lock down this page to prevent vandalism. 2601:1C0:CB00:931F:4AE:696A:16B1:EC57 (talk) 19:32, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Current events

message: :The "External links" had eight entries. When adding the 22 from the "See Also", and the eight from the "Further reading", the appendices become crowded.
* External links
: Three seems to be an acceptable number and of course, everyone has their favorite to add for four. The problem is that none is needed for article promotion.
:ELpoints #3) states: Links in the "External links" section should be kept to a minimum. A lack of external links or a small number of external links is not a reason to add external links.
:LINKFARM states: There is nothing wrong with adding one or more useful content-relevant links to the external links section of an article; however, excessive lists can dwarf articles and detract from the purpose of Wikipedia. On articles about topics with many fansites, for example, including a link to one major fansite may be appropriate.
:ELMIN: Minimize the number of links. --
:ELCITE: (Not applicable here) Do not use  or other citation templates in the External links section. Citation templates are permitted in the Further reading section.
:What can be done with a dead external link?  If not updated in a reasonable time then a dead link should be buried.
:Please note also: WP:ELBURDEN: Disputed links should be excluded by default unless and until there is a consensus to include them.
*Links moved here for discussion 
:Secrecy and Security Library, Federation of American Scientists
: Excerpt from the original (1917) U.S. Espionage Act
: Freedom of Speech, Zechariah Chafee, 1920 (Google Books ebook)
: Dead link. The United States v. Rose Pastor Stokes (1918)  --  Otr500 (talk) 04:13, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article issues