Talk:Near-open front unrounded vowel

message: Persian: , 'door'.  In English, Æ is a 2-step sound:  First you open your mouth wide and then you make it a ə (schwa) before closing it.  In Persian, the second step is absent.
I am absolutely sure about Persian because I speak Persian.  In am also suspicious whether  Æ occurs in other languages.  The difference is very subtle and most people don't notice it except those who have are bilingual and have studied the phonics of the English language systematically.--02:40, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe that it can be diphthongized in English, but that doesn't mean that it's dipthongized in every language.  Read the Persian phonology page and you'll see an actual vowel chart taking formants and whatnot into account.  AEuSoes1 06:23, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I hope you didn't put that it was disputed just because you personally disagree with it.  You're gonna need some academic disputing to really let that sort of edit fly.  You haven't even indicated what it would be instead.  AEuSoes1 16:09, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

text: It's simple really... if the vowel was a diphthong, why would IPA have one symbol for it? It's common sense. Some Americans say "eæ" especially Californians and people in the KY, OH, IN area. I think that's causing confusion.RedAugust 22:01, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Other Languages

message: I'm going to dispute this line:
* Russian: пять , "five"
At least in my dialect (Kaliningrad region), pronouncing it with /æ/ makes it sound more like (but not quite like) петь - 'to sing'. I definitely say пять with a clear /a/ sound.
:Check the sources for Russian phonology.  Wikipedia's mentions of Russian imply Standard (Moscow) Russian.  Æµ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 00:40, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There's no  in Russian, just . It is an allophone of  between palatalized consonants. Peter238 (talk) 06:15, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Russian /æ/?

message: Often when English words with this short a sound are borrowed into German, as they don't have the sound per se, it's rendered as /ɛ/, like "bands" being said like "bents" and so on... I'm not sure if this is noteworthy, the right article to put this in, or whether it's original research... so yeah...
86.20.219.123 22:59, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: English words in German?

message: I have to disagree with the jajko example, to my ears æ does not exist in Polish, at least not in the standard version of the language. And I have not found any info on this vowel possibly existing in other dialects.. the wiki page on Polish phonology has no mention of it.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.112.56.46 (talk) 01:33, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right.  Examples in Polish should all be sourced.  — Æµ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 01:51, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

text: The source of this confusion is that Polish  is normally central , but it is front  between palatalized consonants. Since the aim of most phoneticians is to avoid diacritics wherever it is possible, a phonetically incorrect symbol  is used for the fronted allophone. If you're looking for extreme precision, it's best that you use canIPA instead (but don't trust Canepari's transcriptions too much, they contain lots of mistakes, such as equating English  with Polish  - that'd work only for Indian English I think). Peter238 (v̥ɪˑzɪʔ mɑˑɪ̯ tˢʰoˑk̚ pʰɛˑɪ̯d̥ʒ̊) 12:31, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  æ in Polish? 

message: What accent of English is [kʰʲæt] supposed to represent?  Source?  Grover cleveland (talk) 05:55, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Palatalization in "cat"??

message: This sound is difficult to represent phonetically in English without resorting to "as-ins" like cat, ash, etc. It almost never ends a word (the only one I can think of is "baa" and even then that's just as likely to be the "ah" sound instead). British English uses it a lot less often than American English, leading me to wonder if it might be a relatively new phenomenon.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.11.36.169 (talk) 16:26, 20 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It's actually the opposite AFAIK.  British English has shifted  in certain contexts to  (e.g. chance).  — Æµ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɛ̃ɾ̃ˡi] 18:17, 20 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: That isn't an accurate description of the historical phonology.  Better to say that the vowel which has ended up as  in some varieties (e.g. most versions of AmE) has ended up as  in RP and related varieties (not "British English"). Grover cleveland (talk) 08:28, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: No, Aeusoes1 is right. See trap-bath split. Peter238 (talk) 06:12, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notes 

message: Isn't the vowel in quinze a nasalized version of this vowel?  Should that be mentioned, or is there a separate page for the nasalized vowel? --Trovatore (talk) 05:17, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: No, there isn't a separate page for the nasalized vowel. Peter238 (talk) 06:24, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nasalized version in French? 

message: In french, the /æ/ doesn't exist, even in nasalized form. /ɛ̃/ is the correct form. Some phoneticians told that it became /æ̃/ in modern French. But it's not true, it's a normal nasal shift which result of velum opening; it always was pronounced like this.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.28.241.116 (talk) 17:50, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: You mean that in modern French,  is not realized as ? Those are not different phonemes. Besides, what do you mean by "nasal shift"? Peter238 (talk) 06:20, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not in french 

message: Hasn't a rounded version of this vowel been ever attested in any language?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Backinstadiums (talk • contribs) 09:58, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, for instance Danish. See the vowel chart in  Peter238 (talk) 06:24, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Another instance are Lehali and Lemerig (Vanuatu), two Oceanic languages featuring a symmetrical vowel inventory contrasting /æ/ and /ɒ̝/. (See pp.194-5 of .) —— Womtelo (talk) 10:43, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Aren't those back vowels though? The Danish one is somewhat retracted front. Peter238 (talk) 12:41, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: hi, yes you're right, they are rounded and back (like the higher vowel [ɔ] for ex). I'm not aware of a vowel corresponding to [æ] that would be front and rounded; maybe Danish would be the right example indeed. — Womtelo (talk) 14:00, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. Yes, Danish is the right example, you can see that vowel chart in Danish phonology. Peter238 (talk) 19:33, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rounded version 

message: The sound used in the article seems to sound higher (approaching ɛ) than how it is used in most languages. It seems to reflect the General American pronunciation of the phoneme but sounds too closed for most of the other languages on the list. It also sounds slightly dipthongised (with a [ɘ] following). Could this be changed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.200.25.119 (talk • contribs) 08:51, July 10, 2015‎
:Agreed, it sounds just like [ɛ] to me 58.136.157.246 (talk) 10:23, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  The sound clip seems to be inaccurate 

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thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018) 

message: The audio clip's pronunciation stutters. Can someone provide a clip that doesn't stutter?
--Helping end world sexual repression. (talk) 09:55, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The clip is fine, it's probably your browser. Try a different one. Kbb2 (ex. Mr KEBAB) (talk) 11:25, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I tested it on 5 different browsers, and it holds true: https://www.dropbox.com/s/u1p58th9ukevmcs/audio-problem.mp4?dl=0 --Helping end world sexual repression. (talk) 13:20, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  Then this is either your operating system's fault (I'm having no issues on Chrome and Windows 7) or you're having problems with the player itself. Try downloading the recording. Kbb2 (ex. Mr KEBAB) (talk) 14:04, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

text: Or try opening the raw file on your browser. I've encountered the same issue and it only happens on MediaWiki's player (TimedMediaHandler) but not on the browser's native player, although it doesn't happen to me with this particular clip now for some reason. It plays just fine when you click the play button for the first time since the page is loaded, but it happens when you play it again—not just with this clip but any clip as far as I can tell (but you don't notice this when a file starts with silence). So this is most likely a issue on MediaWiki's part, and people at WP:VPT may have a solution or at least an answer. Nardog (talk) 14:33, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks Nardog! You're right. That seems to be the case. On a side note, we seem to frequent the same topics online, haha. You're super helpful. Much appreciated! --Helping end world sexual repression. (talk) 08:23, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Audio Clip 

message: In GA, wouldn't this vowel more accurately (and perhaps, necessarily) be described/transcribed as the diphthong [ɛə̯]? Bladesinger46n2 (talk) 02:37, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: No, I don't think so.  In some American accents, but not GA, the ash has a tense variant, which can actually be used distinctively.  For example, in some New York accents, "can" in the sense of possibility is /kæn/ but "can" in the sense of "receptacle" is /keən/ or some such.  Unless I have that backwards.  Is that what you're thinking of? --Trovatore (talk) 03:59, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

text: By the way, if you're asking for general knowledge rather than because you want to suggest a change to the article, please ask at WP:RD/Language rather than here. --Trovatore (talk) 04:15, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

text: See :/æ/ raising. Nardog (talk) 06:16, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

text: May I ask where you grew up geographically?  I don't think that's exactly GA.  Technically we shouldn't be discussing this on the talk page; if you want to reply on my talk page feel free. --Trovatore (talk) 20:10, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  American English diphthong?