Talk:R.E.M./Archive 2

message: OK, we all agree that "Feeling Gravitys Pull" has no apostrophe (and, of course, the album Lifes Rich Pageant. But what about "Cant Get There From Here"/"Can't Get There From Here" and "Pop Song 89"/"Pop Song '89".
I just made the page for Pop Song 89 and created Pop Song '89 to redirect to the previous. Which way should it be? I've usually seen it without the apostrophe, but the discography page has it with the apostrophe.
And the more confusing one is "Cant Get...." as that one appears with the apostrophe in the liner notes on Eponymous. How does it appear on the single? I would like your input please! Bsd987 02:47, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the best way to do it is to look at the albums themselves.  With that said, "Pop Song 89" on Green lacks the apostrophe, as does "Cant" on both Eponymous and Fables.... --badlydrawnjeff 03:04, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

text: This is an American-vs.-British journalistic style variation (per the Chicago Manual of Style folks: http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/CMS_FAQ/Quotations/Quotations18.html): commas inside are the American way. I say either is fine, just be consistent throughout the article. 216.132.59.162 23:36, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia's Manual of Style's requires the use of "logical quoting", which means that punctuation is only included inside the quotation marks if the punctuation is part of the quotation or title.  Translated: commas should always go outside a song title's quotes. -- ChrisB 03:01, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you read the next sentence of the Manual of Style, you come to this: "However, insisting on changing to this usage, especially in articles written in American English, is deprecated; there are better and less divisive uses of time."  R.E.M. is an American band; follow American punctuation rules. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Charolastra charolo (talk • contribs) 00:44, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Song Titles 

message: "R.E.M.'s Around the Sun World Tour was its first global jaunt since the ill-fated Monster Tour in 1995" - I seem to remember world tours in 1999 in support of Up and 2003 in support of the Greatest Hits.  I think this line could do with coming out.  82.38.206.208 17:17, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: World Tours

message: Hi guys, I just edited the "formation" to reflect what I read in a November 15, 1990 Rolling Stone article by David Fricke entitled "Peter Buck Q & A" (also available in the book "R.E.M.: the Rolling Stone files). Here is a paragraph from that interview:
"It was in late January of that year...(1980)..., in the small, swinging college town of Athens, Georgia, that guitarist Peter Buck, singer Michael Stipe, bassist Mike Mills and drummer Bill Berry rehearsed together for the first time. The following April 5th, they  made their concert debut--without a name--at a free beer blast in the old, converted Episcopalian church where Stipe and Buck lived."
This clashes a little with what is currently on the Wikipedia page (it currently says that the band was called Twisted Kites).
Anyway, I was wondering if someone could please edit the article in light of my new information (include the info about the April 5th gig date, and that the band then had no name). I would do it, but am unsure about how to properly cite my (non-web page) source. --Stuart mcmillen 07:52, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Formation

message: I think it goes without saying there should be more samples of R.E.M. songs than "What's the Frequency, Kenneth?"  Certainly some better-known hits ("Losing My Religion", "Everybody Hurts") and definitely material from their IRS days should be posted in order to fully convey R.E.M's style, which "What's the Frequency, Kenneth?" shouldn't and does not stand as a standard sort of song that they do.  There's a clip of "Radio Free Europe" on the Music from Athens, Georgia page, and that should definitely be here, too. WesleyDodds 13:05, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Song samples 

message: Is it really true to say that Around the Sun received the most mildest of critical praise out of their albums so far. I know a few sections of the music press in the UK were quite disappointed with it (as Reveal received very good reviews over here in the big magazines), but overall globally, would you say that it received poorer reviews than Up for example? Finally, I've noticed that this article uses spellings from US and CE English. Eg. Favored early on in the article and then "rumoured" late on. Could someone decide on which one should be used (probably US as it concerns a US band) and then can me keep it consistent please? Thanks hedpeguyuk 09:47, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Around the Sun 

message: Can anyone explain why the article is at R.E.M. (band)? Rapid Eye Movement should be linked from REM, Roentgen equivalent man should be rem, everything else should be REM (disambiguation). The museum doesn't even refer to itself as REM, according to their website. It seems like the move was done in 2002, without much of an explanation. Time to revisit? ~ trialsanderrors 07:35, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, "rem" is not a valid name for a page, as the first letter will automatically be capitalized. However, I do believe that the band page should be at "R.E.M." considering that mage exists to redirect to the "REM" disambiguous page. Bsd987 12:14, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  R.E.M. (band) or R.E.M.? 

message: It should be noted that Berry's contributions to the band were fare less confined only to drumming. Berry regularly contributed on band's material, playing bass, acoustic guitar, rhythm guitar, back vocals, keyboards and piano.
And he did so on Hi-Fi as well.
If this is going to be added, it needs to be sourced and rewritten (and copyedited).  It's adding the implication that Berry's lack of contribution suggested that he was about to quit the band, which is an unsourced assertion.  
Furthermore, there are other (better) explanations for why he didn't perform as many other instruments.  Hi-Fi was unique as far as how it was recorded - most of it was recorded live on tour during shows and soundchecks.  The band used most of the original tracks and spared adding a significant amount of layering in the studio.  However, Berry did provide vocals, keyboards, acoustic guitar, and bass on several Hi-Fi tracks, so it's not like he held off entirely. -- ChrisB 19:04, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see the POV violation the way I read it, but it doesn't make sense and definitely should be rewritten so as to make sense. I think the author was just stating the things Berry did, not that he should have done more, etc.. But it doesn't make sense anyway.... Bsd987 19:14, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The main problem was where it was located: .  Claiming it as a part of his departure is unsourced.  We don't know why Berry mainly focused on drums, percussion, and vocals on Hi-Fi.  It may have been the recording process, it may have been an artistic decision - we don't know, and he's never said.  Lacking that, it also seems kinda non-notable. -- ChrisB 20:04, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Berry's contributions to the band 

message: I think it is slated for September. --Fantailfan 12:09, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: First off (not to you, but to everyone), in no way is it released by the band, like previously stated. I believe it is EMI that holds the IRS catalogue and they chose to release this without the consent of the band, just like the last 3 IRS collections. This is in no way associated with R.E.M. other than it is their music that will be on the album. Bsd987 13:10, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Furthermore, "I think" doesn't cut it for Wikipedia.  We need verifiable sources to include this kind of information, and I found three different websites claiming three different release dates.  Even still, I'm not sure this is (as yet) a notable release in the band's history. -- ChrisB 13:54, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, I agree completely. I was passing along information via the Talk page. I wish the giant corporation that owns Warner would buy R.E.M.'s catalog from the giant corporation that owns the ex-IRS catalog (EMI). --Fantailfan 14:19, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you can believe it, Warner and EMI have been trying to buy each other for nearly a decade.  They actually had agreements at least twice already, but they fell apart before concluding. -- ChrisB 23:49, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  R.E.M. IRS Comp 

message: It may be properly referenced, but it is silly (non-notable) and the page is long enough. It is trivial in its most ephemeral sense and does not belong on the page. Fantailfan 21:02, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why I removed "Wussiest" song trivia 

message: Does putting this link in this violate any Wikipedia standards? Fantailfan 13:11, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think it does, the relevant standard is at WP:EL, but I'm not sure it really offers anything for the article adding it even if it is allowed. --badlydrawnjeff talk 13:14, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I scratched it, erroneously taking it as advertising. That said, there is only one R.E.M. bootleg review listed. And the author has an affinity for not using the periods in R.E.M.'s name. My two reasons for its deletion. - Dudesleeper 13:27, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link to R.E.M. Bootleg Reviews 

message: I started to change the Notes headings to that of a lower level so that they would be more closely connected with the track listing, but then I realised there may be notes from the main body of text. I'll go back and correct them later. - Dudesleeper 11:14, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notes subheadings on albums and singles articles 

message: Just lodging my opposition to the merge request.  Seems unnecessary to have here, but useful enough to keep separate. --badlydrawnjeff talk 16:02, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. It seems that there's plenty of stuff on that page that isn't related to R.E.M.; certainly enough that most of it wouldn't fit here at all. —LrdChaos (talk) 16:15, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I agree as well.  An interesting article in its own right, but certainly not related enough to justify merger. ---Charles 18:27, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge request

message: Given that R.E.M. is an American band, shouldn't this article be formatted in U.S. English?  For example, shouldn't the periods in that last "U.S." be left in (like we do) rather than removed (like Brits do)?  The Wikipedia Manual of Style counsels that "articles that focus on a topic specific to a particular English-speaking country should generally conform to the usage and spelling of that country."
Just wondering...
Charolastra charolo 05:24, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A bot came through and changed all the U.K.s to UK, so I followed suit with the U.S.s, not wanting the discrepancy, as I saw it. As you mention, that's wrong in the eyes of Wikipedia, but my life isn't quite boring enough to feel the need to go back and revert it. - Dudesleeper 12:57, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Country format