Talk:Choke (sports)

message: I think German footballer Michael Ballack deserves a mention.  By my count, he has lost two UEFA Champions League finals, one World Cup final (and finished third in 2006), one European Championship final (in 2008), not to mention his 2001-2002 season when he missed out on three trophies with Bayer Leverkusen
86.138.171.236 (talk) 01:13, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recidivism - Michael Ballack? 

message: Needs thorough cleansing of US centrism. Some of it is just plain wrong from a non US-centric point of view.Wincoote 03:38, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  US centrism 

message: I am sure that such a debate on this topic would stir a lot of rage, but one person's choke is another person's comeback.
Bottom of the eighth in game 4, Yankees' closer Mariano Rivera comes out on what seems like an automatic two inning save.  In the bottom of the ninth, Kevin Millar of the Red Sox walks to start the inning, and Dave Roberts takes his place to pinch run.  After several pickoff attempts, Rivera finally pitches to Bill Mueller, at which Roberts steals second base.  Mueller singles to allow Roberts to score and tie.
Did Mariano Rivera blow the save by paying too much attention to Roberts and not enough attention to Mueller, or did Terry Francona, the Red Sox manager, develop a crafty play?
DaDoc540 14:09, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  2004 ALCS: Did the Red Sox win it or the Yankees blow it? 

message: Reading the Recidivism section made me think of the cyclist Raymond Poulidor, who "was known as the eternal second, because he finished the Tour de France in second place three times, and in third place five times (including his final Tour at the age of 40). Despite his consistency, he never wore the Yellow Jersey in 14 Tours, of which he completed 12.". Peoplesunionpro (talk) 19:52, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recidivism - Raymond Poulidor 

message: [sigh]
Some goof is removing references to Super Bowl XLII.  This is a significant milestone in sports chokes.  We need to acknowledge such, and lock to prevent this user from removing the reference.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.115.155.55 (talk) 17:39, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  2007 Patriots 

message: I've removed the uncited examples (which was almost all of them). This is partially because the article was becoming an example-farm (whereby everyone coming by the page would add their own example) and partially because there was negative information about living people without proper citation. Please only add in an example if a reliable source has written about it using the specific word "choke". Stifle (talk) 13:13, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removals 

message: Bleacher Report is not a credible source as anyone can make their own article. Which leads to obvious biasism
:Depends on the author, obviously some of them are going to be more reliable than others.--'Prisencolinensinainciusol 05:59, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bleacher Report 

message: Can we all agree that "lead" is present-tense, and "led" is past-tense?  I'm correcting the second section to make the meaning clearer.  It's a mess. Compdude512 (talk) 01:32, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Lead" vs. "Led" 

message: Come on-how could we miss the obvious.  This era should be added right next to the "Dan Fouts led Chargers" example.  Or better yet, just include the San Diego Chargers period!98.176.118.95 (talk) 02:35, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Phillip Rivers lead Chargers 

message: This article is framed in terms of a team choking. However, I think that the terms can and is applied to an individual as well. If a kicker in American football misses an important field goal or extra point attempt which determines the outcome of the game, he might well be said to have choked. This could occur even in a context where the team as a whole might not be said to have choked, for example, if an underdog battles a superior team down the the final moments of a game and has a chance to win, but the kicker misses. The team as whole, having achieved a result that meets or even exceeds expectations, would not have choked.Wschart (talk) 20:44, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  team vs. individual choke 

message: "In the NHL, choking is a common term during the playoffs, but is usually used to name 2 teams: the Vancouver Canucks and the San Jose Sharks." This is rather POV and not particularly true -- because fans poorly understand the concept, virtually every loss by a higher seed in the playoffs tends to get labelled as a "choke" by many, and these two teams are by no means singled out apart from the fact that the writer of this section clearly focused only on the most recent playoffs. Losing a series when up 3-2 is hardly unusual or monumental in hockey, either. 192.197.178.2 (talk) 14:14, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hockey examples overly narrow 

message: I'm sure it was better at some point, but right now this article is a pretty big steaming pile, what with everybody adding his or her favorite unsourced "choke" to the list. I've removed a few of the worst offenders, but plenty more should be removed unless they can be properly sourced. --Bongwarrior (talk) 08:21, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Examples 

message: I don't think one bad playoff series qualifies LeBron as a choker. The article is poorly written.
And I highly doubt that the latter part of "Lebron's scoring average of 26 ppg fell to a low of 17 ppg, most dropoff in ppg in NBA history." is factual.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mat Cee (talk • contribs) 05:21, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  LeBron as a choker? 

message: I definitely should have inquired about this sooner, but I'm still curious I would like to know something. Earlier this month, I added a section about chokes in baseball consisting of two paragraphs; the second paragraph mentioned how chokes in baseball are more commonly called collapses, and listed 13 examples of late season collapses along with three sources. Then  removed this paragraph, saying that collapses would be better off having their own article and not in the Choke article.
I'm genuinely confused by this; chokes and collapses mean the exact same thing in sports, so to give MLB collapses their own article, in my view, would be redundant. What exactly was being suggested? Songwaters (talk) 02:34, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Whilst I am sympathetic to the idea that 'collapses' may be chokes, there is a question that must be asked. "In what way does a list of collapses or even a list of chokes enhance this article." If an example doesn't enhance readers' understanding of what constitutes a 'choke' then it may have a hundred citations but it doesn't belong here. The converse is true. An example of a collapse that is not a 'choke' would be useful to clarify the definition. But good luck finding a cited example.  OrewaTel (talk) 00:40, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Collapses 

message: — Assignment last updated by Simreestolk0 (talk) 21:57, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: Adult Development Fall 2023