Talk:Randall Flagg/Archive 1

message: The link to 'Man in Black' leads to a disimbaguation page that links to this page. I thought it was redundant, so I removed the text link.
:Thank you, it is redundant. The 'man in black' phrase goes back and forth between being linked and not, but it definitally should not be. Lachatdelarue (talk) 12:51, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Not really. Jonny Cash is irrevelant to Randall Flagg. --CyberGhostface 04:21, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  isn't that precisely why there SHOULD be a disambiguation page for "Man In Black"? Morphine 00:11, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not linked here, no.--CyberGhostface 00:57, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

text:  Umm, Man in Black/The Man in Black links to Johnny Cash as well as List of fictional characters called the Man in Black; where's the problem here? -- nae'blis (talk) 00:15, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It links to a disambiguation page that links back here. Its pointless.--CyberGhostface 00:57, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

text: It's a disambiguation page. It serves no useful purpose to the article. -- LGagnon 00:31, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Man in Black

message: I originally removed the part about her because it was completely out of place. It had nothing to do with his plan to take over the world in the context that it was added in. Now that it has been rewritten to actually have context, it works fine. -- LGagnon 22:04, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree. For the most its just a broad synopsis and the Nadine mentions just seemed out of place. I think it'd be better suited for her own topic, or for the Stand article.--CyberGhostface 22:16, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think Nadine is a big enough character to warrant her own article, so if it has to go somewhere else it should be The Stand's article. Still, I think it has been improved enough to let it stay now. Plus, it is Flagg's one other major goal in that novel, so it is probably worth mentioning here. -- LGagnon 00:58, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: If we mention Nadine then I think we should seriously expand the Stand article because for the most part its pretty broad in terms of plot and then a specific event is mentioned and it just throws it for a loop. Flagg's relationship with Thomas is a major focus of EotD but its never mentioned there.--CyberGhostface 01:43, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Nadine was the other big goal in The Stand, in having a heir. If you  want to expand EoTD to show how Flagg framed Peter for his mother's death and manipulated his brother Thomas, go ahead. --DrBat 12:33, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Then you better expand the entire Stand article and make it an in-depth summary if you're going to add such a specific detail in a broad entry.--CyberGhostface 19:23, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not a specific detail; him wanting a heir, and his seduction/manipulation of Nadine was a major part of the book. --DrBat 20:31, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems abrupt and out of place. Its a one paragraph section detailing the basic gist of his role.--CyberGhostface 22:29, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Nadine

message: Could someone please cite the pages and/or chapters that the newly added quotes are from? Generally, as a matter of acedemic accountability, quotes should not be added unless you can cite the source properly. -- LGagnon 05:33, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Quotes without citations

message: I just assume you will edit this out as well and am wondering why ahead of time. Flagg 29 20:24, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've also asked that question to the moderator. But I'll add it back up until she says otherwise as its a somewhat popular theory.--CyberGhostface 21:34, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: http://www.stephenking.com/messageboard.php?jump=id&msg_id=62234 So I've removed Leland Gaunt. And I'm not just singling you out--I've asked about Andre and the Long Walk, and if those are wrong as well I'll remove them.--CyberGhostface 19:19, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Needful Things

message: According to Wikipedia, vandalism is 'any addition, deletion, or change to content made in a deliberate attempt to reduce the quality of the encyclopedia'.
Upon noticing that all but one of his other appearences (the RF in Hearts) were speculations, I changed the sentence from "as well as cameo or hinted roles in other stories" to "as well as speculated cameos or hinted roles in other stories"
Silence (a user who hasn't contributed to this article for at least 500 edits) reverted and says it was vandalism.
So I changed it back. If anyone has any problems, tell me.--CyberGhostface 03:31, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Your edit is more correct than the previous version. Silence is just overreacting without reason. -- LGagnon 04:03, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: User talk:Silence#'Vandalism' regarding Randall Flagg -Silence 04:30, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry for the misunderstanding, Silence.--CyberGhostface 20:33, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: "Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither was Akron, Ohio."[citation needed] (Flagg uses this phrase in The Stand.)
Actually this is untrue. I've read The Stand more than two dozen times, both uncut and cut, and Flagg does not say this. Instead, it is spoken by Glen Bateman, in reference to Flagg: "Rome wasn't built in a day, and he'll know that." (Uncut edition (), page 635; The bit about Akron isn't anywhere in the rest of the book.)
That being the case I'm going to strike this section from the article. Avalyn 14:41, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: that line is in the epilogue but he doesnt actually say it, its more like he thought it, so i guess it does count as being there? i just looked it up now. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.72.48.105 (talk) 06:48, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Common quote 

message: Could you please add the page number(s) for that quote? A proper book reference should include the page(s) used so that it's easier for researchers to confirm. -- LGagnon 03:43, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Fine, I'll go find it.--CyberGhostface 15:18, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Wolves of the Calla quote

message: I moved his role in Hearts in Atlantis before DT and his death because I think it makes more sense that way being that his role in HiA is before DT7...--CyberGhostface 00:19, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hearts in Atlantis 

message: Am I the only one who noticed the similarity between Flagg's smiley pin and the one in Watchmen? The first picture in the article makes it look a lot like it (can't remember if it was exactly like that in the novel though). Anyone know if this is a coincidence or not? -- LGagnon 01:44, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think either are connected to each other, though they might share similiar ironies (with Flagg and the Comedian, neither who are the nicest of people, wearing them). --CyberGhostface 02:32, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Smiley

message: Quotes should have citations (not just the book, but the edition & pages numbers), as verifiability is of the upmost concern with direct quotes from books, people,or other sources. -- LGagnon 19:47, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Quotes

message: There isn't an infobox for literary characters, is there? If so, we might want to add one here. -- LGagnon 00:51, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've been thinking about making one for SK/DT characters...first appearence, characteristics, death, etc...if anyone else wants to, go ahead.--CyberGhostface 03:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Infobox

message: It is stated in the article that he has used Anubis as one of his many guises. Could that mean that Anubis in Kingdom Hospital was actually Flagg? The S 02:33, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In a word...no.--CyberGhostface 02:51, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Antubis/Anubis? 

message: I reverted the edits made by Srose. They bolded Flagg's name every single time in the article and added repeated links all over the article, both which are unneccessary. (For example, every time The Stand and Eyes of the Dragon were mentioned, they were linked.) At first I decided to manually remove them as there were some other changes but it took me ages cleaning out just half the article so I just gave up and reverted the whole thing.--CyberGhostface 18:46, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reverted edits on 6/29 

message: I wonder if the main characters from King's movie Sleepwalkers are supposed to be connected to Flagg?  They can make themselves dim.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Mike Freed (talk • contribs) 
:No, they're not. Two entirely different characters.--CyberGhostface 14:16, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sleepwalkers 

message: I'm going to try and find the citation for Eyes of the Dragon. If someone could do the same for The Stand that'd be nice.--CyberGhostface 18:56, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't have either source personally, but all of them have been referred to by legit sources to carrying them.--CyberGhostface 19:28, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citation 

message: I'm cleaning up The Dark Tower Characters and am thinning the Randall Flagg section considerably, since there is a main article on him. For legacy, or pasting into this article, here is the original text:
Also known as the Ageless Stranger, Walter o'Dim, Marten Broadcloak and Randall Flagg; he appears in many books of Stephen King, most notably in The Eyes of the Dragon and in The Stand, always as a nearly-demonic sorcerer. He is the Crimson King's chief agent, but secretly plots to rule the tower himself. This evil figure knows dark magic and uses it to  spread chaos. He has destroyed civilizations, led numerous violent factions, and killed his way to ruling kingdoms, the whole time serving the Crimson King. His true name is Walter Padick, but he has taken many aliases, among them Randall Flagg. Flagg is a central character in another sprawling King novel, "The Stand."  In this tale, he is also called "The Dark Man" or "The Walkin' Dude", and knows much about Roland, his history, and his quest for the Dark Tower. Walter is eaten alive by Mordred Deschain, Roland's bastard, half-spider son. Walter also, in the course of the series, reveals himself to be Marten Broadcloak, Chief adviser to Steven Deschain, Roland's father, and lover to Gabrielle Deschain, Roland's mother. This is significant as Marten Broadcloak is also revealed to be either John Farson (the Good Man) himself, or an ally of his. In goading Roland into his early test of manhood, Walter o'Dim (who actually returns to advise Roland's father under this name, with a slightly altered appearance, after Marten's mysterious disappearance) has sowed the seeds of his own undoing. Not, of course, before wiping out all of the gunslingers except for Roland in a massive civil war against Farson.
Walter's tenacity and slipperiness are inhuman; in The Stand: The Complete & Uncut Edition he is exposed to a nuclear explosion but escapes to wreak havoc elsewhere via some sort of magic; in The Eyes of the Dragon he is shot through the eye with Foe-Hammer, yet escapes and lives. Even under Roland's own gun, he managed to disappear in Wizard and Glass. Though it seems he met his final end between the jaws of Mordred Deschain, it is contested between fans of the series whether or not he is really dead, though the accepted canon is that Mordred saw to his end when, in hybrid spider form, he telepathically forced Walter to rip out his own eyes and tongue to drop into Mordred's gaping mouth for food ("appetizers"), after which Mordred devoured the rest of Walter's body.
— RevRagnarok Talk Contrib 00:08, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup 

message: First, where are the spoiler templates for this article? Second, the blaring picture of Randall Flagg being killed by a giant spider needs to be removed. That part of the story has now been spoiled for me. Punctured Bicycle 21:52, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sorry you got it spoiled but you should expect Wikipedia to have such information. I never look at a wikipedia article of something I am in progress of reading. If I do, its my fault and not wikipedia's if it gets spoiled. But I'll add a spoiler template.--CyberGhostface 21:55, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  People should not read articles about books and movies and their characters if they don't really want to know what happens to them. Dmoon1 21:44, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Dmoon1. I would say delete the graphic if it was on the main Dark Tower article. I will peruse an article (up to a spoiler warning) if I am deciding if I want to read a book, but looking up individual characters is, IMHO, "asking for it." — RevRagnarok Talk Contrib 22:00, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spoilers 

message: Why is there a reference to Dream Catcher? There is no longer any mention of the book in the article. It makes the article look unprofessional. If someone feels the need to remove parts of the article, why wouldn't they also remove the reference? Flagg 29
:Problem solved. -- LGagnon 21:24, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: I am currently reading The Stand, and in about the middle of the first third of the book, there is mention of a disk jockey stirring up trouble on air by the name of Ray Flowers.  Is this Flagg?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.124.91.208 (talk • contribs) 
:Probably.--CyberGhostface 03:30, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Possibly, though I don't think that Stephen King had made a habit of using those initials specifically for Randal Flagg by the time he wrote The Stand. Furthermore in the mini series/movie (as you know was largely written by King) Ray Flowers is female. I think there's enough evidence either way to leave it completely open to interpretation.ASA-IRULE 05:19, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I wasn't aware that Flowers was a female (although now it seems rather silly of me to assume that she wasn't) but the whole R.F. bit was used a lot in The Stand.--CyberGhostface 04:31, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: On the audio commentary for the DVD, King states the Flowers was only female in the mini series because Kathy Bates was available for the role.  The character is male in the book.  I don't think it is a Flagg reference however.  Notwithstanding the fact that Flagg was elsewhere in the same world at that time, Flowers generally seems to be on the 'good' side - trying to get information out, letting people know what is actually going on, etc.  Leafschik1967 19:13, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I wasn't aware of who Ray was when I said that. I just thought that since the person had the R.F. intials and was 'causing trouble'.--CyberGhostface (talk) 01:47, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adding Alliases 

message: I just finished reading Cell. He seems like him. "his" flocks levetating, cruifictions, and contacting in dreams and in person.
What do you guys think? Should this be added in the Cell page, this page, or nither? --ASDFGHJKL 20:17, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: He's not Flagg. He's the voice of the collective, basically someone who the phoners speak through. If the raggedy man were to die, someone else would be chosen in his place.--CyberGhostface 21:29, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ragaddy Man Flagg?

message: I'm trying to get the article once again nominated for Feature Article given that all the citations are here. One of the suggestions others have made was to remove to the Aliases section as all of Flagg's important identities are discussed elsewhere in the article and it came across like extra trivia. Upon reviewing the article, I agreed, and removed it.--CyberGhostface 19:42, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aliases 

message: Since RF/Walter/Whatever you call him has ties into a ton of King's stories as a major player, is there a better way to warn other than "plot and/or ending details follow"? It's just really broad what with his numerous appearances. Someone reading the article might jump in, not knowing one of his other names. Maybe a list of books in which he is involved before the article goes into anything else? Because he's in so many books for certain ( DT, The Stand, etc ), and even more as a possibility ( Leland Gaunt, to name one ), I was just thinking it might be courteous to make sure we've got all spoilers under lock and key. :) Juno Loire 20:35, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've modified the spoiler warning.--CyberGhostface 21:03, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spoilers 

message: I've been thinking about ways to improve this article, and something occurred to me while reading information about Randall Flagg in the book Stephen King's The Dark Tower - The Complete Concordance.  The entry for Flagg refers readers to the entry for Walter, because that is the true identity of Flagg.  Flagg is only one of Walter's aliases.  So... shouldn't this article really be titled Walter O'Dim and have sections about all of his aliases?  This books is the official reference to The Dark Tower series and worked on by King himself. --Mus Musculus 03:48, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, because Flagg is the name that most people are familar with and that has been used the most. Also, Walter being his true name is mentioned in this article.--CyberGhostface 04:13, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  What he said. Damn, beat me to it. Ours18 04:15, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name and focus of article 

message: "In The Eyes of the Dragon, he hoped to bring an entire kingdom to ruin by manipulating various characters; in The Stand, where he is also referred to as the "Walkin' Dude," he almost destroys all of America with the superflu."
I have seen this stated by many fans before, but I disagree with it.  It isn't stated nor implied in the book anywhere, at least the uncut version.  It states that he knows "something is coming" (or maybe it was "something was about to happen"), but he clearly didn't cause it; he merely took advantage of the situation. Ours18 05:06, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I see your point - I have reworded it to just say that the superflu happened.  How do you like it now? --Mus Musculus 12:18, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  I have a problem with one phrase in the intro 

message: In the seventh Dark Tower book, it is said that he was born in Delain. However, in the Stand, it says that he can do magic for the first time, which presumably means that he has not traveled between worlds yet and was born somewhere in "our" world. What's up with that? -- Kevin (TALK)(MUSIC) 04:58, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Its an error. Obviously King wasn't planning Flagg to be Walter Padick when he wrote the Stand. It could also mean that he could do more serious forms of magic instead of lighter stuff than he was used to.--CyberGhostface 13:33, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Birth

message: This article has failed the GA noms as it has a very in-universe perspective. If you disagree with this review feel free to take it to WP:GA/R. Tarret 14:29, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: GA Failed

message: I haven't read the book, but judging solely from the quote included from the article ("a Marine [...]" "of the Parris Island variety") doesn't mean a DI: it could simply mean that this incarnation attended boot camp at Parris Island (as opposed to MCRD San Diego). The point of interest is that PI Marines like to think they're a bit tougher (it's an ongoing pissing contest amongst boots: Parris Island has sand fleas, San Diego has "hills" (seriously, they're mountains); after a while, the senior Marines seem to think we're silly for even bothering to compare). In any case, "trainer" should be changed to "drill instructor", and "soldier" to "Marine" (soldier denotes the army and, with due respect to soldiers, is somewhat offensive to Marines (as I'm sure it may be to soldiers)). When referring to a combination of Marines and soldiers, it's "troops". I will not be making these changes, since I haven't read enough King enough to know exactly what it should be replaced with. I will reword the part about "field soldier" and "trainer" shortly, however. --Johnny (Cuervo) 11:13, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I just went ahead and deleted the text "i.e., a trainer instead of a field soldier". --Johnny (Cuervo) 11:15, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: PI Marine

message: It may be worth noting that there is some significance in the initials King chose for Randall Flagg: The letter F is the 6th letter in the alphabet, R is in fact the 18th (6+6+6). L. for Legion (which may be seen as R.F.'s "true" name as of the writing of The Stand (before he became the wizard etc. in other series)) completes the trend being the 12th (6+6) letter of the alphabet. I'm fairly certain this was deliberate and conforms with the character's reputation as a trickster. On a slightly related note we have Legion described as "a demon of many personalities" this is untrue, or at least misleading, since Legion (as described in our very own wiki article) is literally many demons in one body (a legion of them in fact ;).ASA-IRULE 05:35, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you are sure its a deliberate connection, then you need a source, or else it counts as original research.--CyberGhostface 18:32, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Initials R.F. and Legion 

message: Stephen King stated in his introduction to Hero Illustrated's Top 100 Villains special that he considered the Flagg from Dragon's Eyes to represent the same character as Randall Flagg.
http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=enlarge&issue=40113952746%203
23:10, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Although that fact by itself isn't anything different from this article, could you post the introduction? I'm curious what he had to say.--CyberGhostface 04:36, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Stephen King's Introduction to Hero Illustrated Top 100 Villains