Talk:Monks Risborough

message: Regarding the Lower and Upper Icknield way, and Grim's ditch, these are ancient things that cross the ancient parish of Monks Risborough, but do not pass particularly close to the centre of the village.  The Upper Icknield way is no further from the village than the Lower Icknield way, and indeed Grim's ditch is I believe further away up on the hill, in the ancient parish but not really in the village.Finereach (talk) 12:18, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Finereach, If these features were not that close to the village or could not be associated with it in a historic or contemporary way then the correct action would be to remove them. However, in my view I do feel there is a close enough association topographically as well as from a social history/geography perspective to mention but perhaps using more precise language. There are other examples in the Chilterns settlements where a similar relationship is included in this way. I remain unconvinced that it it is of any merit relying on the ecclesiastical parish boundaries to achieve this.Tmol42 (talk) 12:43, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Grim's Ditch et all

message: The removal of references to the ecclesiastical parish of Monks Risborough has destroyed the structure of the article so that the extent of the area to which it refers is no longer clear. I have restored these references and altered the opening words so as to make it clear that the article relates to the area comprised in the ecclesiastical parish for the following reasons:
a) The parish is a definite area of known extent. It will always be possible to know for certain whether anything mentioned in the article is in the parish or not.
b) On the other hand 'village' is a vague term of indeterminate extent. Every inhabitant can have a different view how far the village extends. Indeed many would think that it is not correct to describe Monks Risborough as a village at all. There are no shops in the village and modern housing merges wth that of Princes Risborough. The nucleus of the parish is the collection of older buildings round the church and I suppose that most people, if pressed, would point to this area as the 'village' but they would have different ideas how far it extends.
c) Many things described in the article cannot be said to relate to the village, but they certainly relate to the parish (and to the Manor, but this is now almost entirely an antiquarian conception while the parish is still a meaningful term and generally understood).
d) The five named hamlets are in the parish, not the village.
e) The present boundaries of the parish correspond very closely to the ancient estate which was granted to the first owner of the land in (probably) the 8th century. Later, when the first church had been built and England was divided into parishes, the same area was used for the parish. By the time of the Norman conquest the same area was also the Manor. Both parish and Manor existed together until copyhold tenure was abolished by the Law of Property Act in 1925 and the Manor lost its importance. When civil parishes were invented (about 1893 I think), much the same area again went into the civil parish, but this was merged into a larger parish with Princes Risborough in 1934 and ceased to exist as a separate civil parish.
f) However through all these vicissitudes the ecclesiastical parish has kept its distinct identity and boundaries to the present day. It is the area whose inhabitants, for a thousand years and more, have been baptised, married and buried at St Dunstan's Church
g) The Inclosure Award of 1839 has also been brought into the article. This relates specifically to the parish.
It is important that terms should be clearly defined at the start, which is why I went out of my way to make it clear that all references to the parish are to the ecclesiastical parish. I now say "the area of the ecclesiastical parish". References to the parish are only confusing if this introductory note is removed. 'Locality' is even vaguer than 'village' and would include Princes Risborough.
I welcome the new reference to the Icknield Way but have changed the wording, as the new sentence is not grammatical, 'nearby' being an adverb, not a preposition. Again, the Icknield Way is outside the village, but both Upper and Lower Icknield Ways pass through the parish. I have also moved this to the section on Antiquity.  Waysider1925 (talk) 20:08, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: In defence of the Parish

message: On further consideration I have re-worded the paragraph on Domesday Book and included all the information it gives but without much in the way of comment.  There are so many different interpretations of some elements of the entries in Domesday Book that I think it is best just to give the facts.  Waysider1925 (talk) 12:09, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Domesday Book

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*Added  tag to http://www.wycombe.gov.uk/uploads/documents/Environment/Planning/Monks%20risborough%2001-12-2007%201.pdf
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110721065009/http://www.bucksfhs.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=451&Itemid= to http://www.bucksfhs.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=451&Itemid=
*Added archive https://archive.is/20130415004411/http://www.monksprimary.ik.org/home.ikml to http://www.monksprimary.ik.org/home.ikml
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thread_title:  External links modified