Talk:Kliper

message: I thought the reference launcher was Zenit, since it is human rated (booster of Energia).
:Apparently no more, as Zenit is a half-ukrainian rocket.--Bricktop 11:28, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Launcher

message: I'm just wondering, why are you talking about Energia rocket in this article? It has NOTHING to do with Kliper. Nobody wants to launch Kliper towards Moon or Mars, its only purpose is to fly to LEO. Its launch mass is around 15 tons and it will be most probably launched by an Onega rocket (or similar Soyuz-3 rocket). And even if Kliper should sometime fly to the Moon, two separate Onega or Proton rockets would be enough to launch Kliper and a propulsion module, the same way as planned for CEV moon missions (without landing on the Moon!). Energia will never fly again, there are no facilities anymore for building this rockets parts in Russia. --Bricktop 22:13, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Why should the ISS going not to be there any more? Griffin wants to keep the station there, russians and europeans too. --Bricktop 23:11, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Energia rocket

message: Half of this article are rumours and speculations. I think this is not the purpose of an Wikipedia article, rather of discussion forums. We should only write known facts down and not speculate whether Clipper may or may not affect CEV development or Aurora program or Energia rocket or aliens or whatever else. --Bricktop 12:15, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Tried to correct it. --Bricktop 22:11, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

text: You are not really up to date: Griffin plans first manned CEV launch in the 2011-2012 timeframe. There are many reasons for Russia to build Kliper, one of the main reasons is that Soyuz capsules are getting harder to build because of their very old technology, so there are for example no more facilities that can build such old components like analog computer parts and so on. Another reason is: Russians may think they can get some money flying tourists into space and Kliper can take 4 of them instead of only one in a soyuz capsule. But Moon or Mars missions aren't (today!) on the reasons list. That may change with time, but we should first write about it when it's officially announced or is close to this. And forget Aurora, compare their budget and NASA's moon programm budget ;-). --Bricktop 21:39, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly right. Aurora is a fantasy program. And if ESA is ok to use European taxpayer's money for a touristic vehicle for US millionaires, good for them and good luck. :))) Hektor 15:40, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: To be fair, only one of the space tourists (Dennis Tito) has been US, the other two (Mark Shuttleworth and Toyohiro Akiyama) were from other countries (South Africa and Japan). - CHAIRBOY (☎) 16:22, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You forget Gregory Olsen. Akiyama was borderline tourist, since he didn't pay for his ticket himself.Hektor 19:13, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: With respect, I haven't forgotten him.  He has not flown to space yet.  There have been plenty of people who have announced plans to fly that didn't, so as of now, 33% of space tourists have been from the US. - CHAIRBOY (☎) 21:06, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: We are 48 hours from his flight. You think he is going to drop out now ?Hektor 13:55, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Speculations

message: I'd like to remove the entire Future Launchers section, it is 100% speculation with no basis in any published intentions by the russians.  If nobody can cite any announcement of using Kliper to visit the moon or whatnot, or any reference to ressurecting Energia, then I think we should remove it, but I want to gauge consensus first. - CHAIRBOY (☎) 16:37, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Currently there are no officially announced plans for using Kliper beyond Earth orbit. There is a manned Mars mission concept from RKK Energia , which use a Kliper-derived vehicle for crew transfers, but these are only conceptual studies. And I think, they even don't consider talking about launchers for this project. So go on with deletion of the 'Future launchers' section. --Bricktop 17:07, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I've removed it.  If anyone wants to add it back, let's please talk about it here first. - CHAIRBOY (☎) 17:09, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

text: Interesting, but not enough to warrant the section.  Definately a subject worth watching, if the RSA or anyone else official says anything else more concrete, then we should revisit this.  Your thoughts? - CHAIRBOY (☎) 19:31, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

text: There is only one problem: There is no money in Russia behind these talks, at least for the next couple of years. --Bricktop 21:00, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: For the next couple of decades.Hektor 05:04, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Removing 'Future launchers' section

message: I can read Cyrillic and this photo
says that Clipper/Клипер will use a Zenit rocket as its launcher. It was written before the ESA agreement, I have no doubt it would use an Ariane 5, since it has been designed for spacecrafts and only Soyuz launch vehicles and Vega will boost satellites to LEO or GTO.
Carnby 84.222.53.189 10:50, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It is a rather old picture of an unwinged configuration. Don't think that Ariane 5 will be used as a Kliper launcher, because this rocket is too large and also expensive comparing to russian Onega/Soyuz-3 launcher, which can also be launched from Kourou. --Bricktop 16:30, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

text: P.S. This picture was shown by Russians to ESA delegation some months ago. --Bricktop 16:35, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Maybe an "enhanced" Ariane 5 would be useful for a Clipper Moon mission, if the Angara would not be developed (considering the financial status of Russian space activities). The Angara would replace the Zenit rocket, "officially" an Ukrainian product, but engineered in the Soviet Union and now marketed by Boeing on their Sea Launch ocean floating pad.Carnby 84.222.53.6 19:01, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Technical specifications

message: This guy, Australian with a clearly Polish name (Krzys Kotwicki) has designed a site called "Energia" where he's dreaming of a future use of the dismantled Energia rocket for American (!!) missions to Mars (the image of an Energia Vulkan rocket (featuring its name in Cyrillic) carrying an American spaceship is one of the most bizarre things I've ever found on the Net!). Nevertheless, his site is often cited for references in the English Wikipedia.
Surfing the Net, I've found two another proposed Russian spaceplanes, the "cosmoplane" and the MAKS spaceship (not to be confused with the MAKS air exibition). Do you think they should be cited as "proposed spaceplanes" in Wikipedia? Carnby 84.222.53.6 19:01, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think MAKS should get an own article, because its development has gone pretty far. --Bricktop 01:59, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Other Russian proposed spaceplanes

message: "Designed to successfully split apart either circumferentially just below the reentry module in such an emergency or longitudinally like a banana were the flight successful." To me, this phrase is just awful. Words like circumferentially and longitudinally are OK (even though my English is not very good and I have had to consult the dicstionary). But longitudinally like a banana... I've tried to imagine the spacecraft doing something longitudinally, like a banana... and failed. :) --Targi 09:54, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Like a banana

message: This article seems to indicate that Soyuz will be used for Moon exploration, rather than Kliper, at least for a first phase. 149.243.232.3 07:30, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Soyuz or Kliper

message: *Seems that Kliper is dead. See here. Hektor 05:44, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Dead ?

message: FWIW, the current (August) issue of Discover magazine has a nice feature on Kliper, including a well-done cutaway illustration. Of course, it hit the streets before the cancellation notice. Akradecki 23:59, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: ''Discover'' magazine

message: I'm seriously confused about all this. Kliper is listed as a cancelled program in the Russian space program infobox at the bottom of the page yet Energia and this article still mention that the Kliper program is continuing. Could someone please explain this to me!Boyinabox 23:46, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Kliper as the next generation space-craft for the Russian Space Agency was cancelled - the Russian government and space agency will not use either of the proposals put forward by 3 contracts that have submitted bids. Energia, a Russian contractor that has submitted a proposal, however announced that it tries to develop its Kliper proposal without money from the Russian government - that through private investors. That said, while it is extremely unlikely that they will actually get the money from somebody to do so, the development of at least Energia's Kliper proposal is not dead. Themanwithoutapast 20:19, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: is it cancelled or isn't it?

message: I removed:
It has also been declared that it could be used as the crew vehicle for trans-lunar missions and may at least theoretically be used for Martian exploration. 
under the terms of WP:V. It needs to be referenced before being replaced. Dan100 (Talk) 08:46, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Beyond LEO

message: In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :) 
* "flightglobal" :
** www.flightglobal.com
** Flight International: Kliper choice delayed (retrieved Dec 27, 2006)
DumZiBoT (talk) 14:28, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Bot report : Found duplicate references !

message: Hi - the name of the article is Kliper, but the very first sentence says that the English name is "Clipper".  If the English name of the thing is "Clipper", then the article should be "Clipper_(spacecraft)", or something like that.  On the other hand, maybe most English sources *do* call it "Kliper".  If that's the case, then someone should change the first sentence. AshleyMorton (talk) 15:23, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Russian Kliper isn't native Russian word. I prefer the name Clipper.Юе Артеміс (talk) 18:55, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Name of article *or* English Translation

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018)