Talk:Halloween/Archive 10

message: The most famous and obvious symbol used in the contemporary celebration of Halloween is the carved pumpkin. This particular symbol can be clearly be traced back to the story of "Stingy Jack" and the Irish tradition of carving turnips into lanterns. It is not an American invention at all. Early Irish immigrants to America, finding no turnips there, used the local (and seasonal) pumpkins as an alternative. According to my now deceased grandmother, who lived in Dublin, the "Stingy Jack" story is several centuries old and has been used as a parable by Irish parents to their children since at least the late 19th century. Somebody repeatedly removes my paragraph about the pumpkins. The information is found on wikipedia's own page about Jack_o_lantern. I get the feeling that there is a strong anti-Irish element at play who are manipulating the information on this subject to suit their own bigotry or agenda.
--Catholicjim 23:48, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't recall the "Stingy Jack" story being told in my family (I'm an American of Munster and Ulster descent), so I can't really comment on that.  However, I am familiar with the Irish (and Scottish?) forerunner to the pumpkin being the turnip.  When the lanterns were carved from turnips they were certainly easier to carry around.  Turnips do grow here, but I think the pumpkin simply provided an option for a bigger lantern and more elaborate carvings. --Kathryn NicDhàna  ♫♦♫ 00:18, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Guess what? I researched and wrote most of Wikipedia's article on the Jack-o'-lantern. — Walloon 00:26, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well done. I encourage you to do a bit more research and add more to the article.--Catholicjim 01:29, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

text: And even with a picture of a Turnip Jack.  Cool. --Kathryn NicDhàna  ♫♦♫ 02:14, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: LOL, the scottish die not celebrate Halloween in the same way as the Irish.  The people in Scotland who celebrated Halloween were the Irish of the 1850's.  Why is every dick trying to claim Halloween.  It's really an Irish tradition, and as we know, being one of them, the WASPS hat the Irish. Period. No POPERY around here!!!!!!!!!!!86.42.146.214 01:01, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Excuse me? It's big in Ireland because you get a holiday but don't try to deride my culture when you can't even spell, never mind make proper sense. You don't get WASPs in Scotland (where I live), just plain old wasps (or wappies as we cry them). They've never hatted me - as far as I can tell they're all too small to wear hats. Besides which you're just plain wrong about Halloween195.153.45.54 11:30, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Symbols 

message: ...by who?!--Moonlight Mile 03:44, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: ...also called Spooky Day...

message: *Oppose: Halloween article is becoming large and is a general introduction. Halloween traditions treats certain aspects of Halloween in depth. --24.173.196.83 03:09, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed merge of Halloween traditions with Halloween

message: I found this text on the category page for :Category:Christian legend and folklore. If anyone knows where it came from or where it would fit, feel free to put it somewhere else. Cheers! Her Pegship  (tis herself) 21:06, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moved from category page 

message: I just wanted to suggest a correction to the article, without typing it, so the admin wouldn't think I was just vandalizing Wikipedia. Scottish and Irish Gaelic while having the same root, are widely different. You go to Ireland speaking Scottish Gaelic, you probably won't get anywhere, and vice versa.
Also. Scottish and Irish culture aren't the same either. It's offensive to Scots to suggest they are, as the Scots and the Irish are ancient rivals. — 72.38.160.31 20:58, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scotland and Ireland 

message: This article currently claims that Halloween is featured prominently in the story "The Legend of Sleepy Hollow." In fact, the holiday is never mentioned in the story, and would have been unlikely to be celebrated by Dutch Americans in the late 1700s. — Walloon 12:17, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The Legend of Sleepy Hollow

message: This image is currently listed in the article with the caption "A Halloween party at a Canadian law school." The caption had earlier been, "Halloween party at a Canadian law school: everybody tries to turn up in a costume. Here, there is 'Einstein', 'Medusa', and a construction worker whose skull has been pierced with a brick. Clearly pictured also is an image of a guest in Australian test cricket uniform - perhaps reflecting the repeated death of the career of Shane Warne due to scandal."
I removed most of the earlier caption in favor of the much shorter version, since the previous version was almost entirely conjecture and grossly violated NPOV. As I was looking over the article again, I felt that the image was irrelevant, unencyclopaedic and was simply added as a decorative vanity. I removed it, but another editor has disagreed with this removal. Instead of edit warring, I thought I was leave this message and see what the consensus is. Cumulus Clouds 05:51, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know who put the previous caption, but that is irrelevant. The question is whether image is relevant. It is, as the current caption explains it. The allegation of "decorative vanity" is perfectly unsubstantiated. Chensiyuan 06:10, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *It is substantiated within the context of WP:COI, WP:SOAP and WP:NOT#LINK #4. There is no good encyclopaedic reason to maintain that picture there since it has only a tenuous, geographical relevance to the paragraph it's placed in (and that relevance is not illustrated within the context of the picture itself). Since the people within the picture also aren't notable, either in this article or elsewhere on Wikipedia, I can find no good reason to keep this picture in this article. Cumulus Clouds 06:37, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

text: *You've also apparently readded this picture several times after other editors had eliminated it. What makes this picture notable enough you would revert edits from several people to maintain it in this article? Cumulus Clouds 06:50, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You have serious credibility issues. "Other editors" you speak of is one person - whom, without anybody putting too fine a point on it, has been blocked numerous times, and suspected of sockpuppetry. You provide a trio of WP policies of which I see no application to this case at hand. Stop throwing random policies without applying them to the case. If your reasoning hitherto is sustainable, almost all the pictures in the article are redundant. Chensiyuan 08:36, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: *Well, WP:NOT#LINK explains that Wikipedia is not a repository for pictures that do not enhance the encyclopaedia. You have not provided an adequate context for using that picture in this article and since it is a group of four people standing in a room wearing costumes, one cannot, with any accuracy, determine whether or not this event took place on Halloween, whether it took place in North America and whether or not it is representative of Halloween traditions in that region. There is an article at Costume parties which you might be interested in posting it too, since it applies directly to that subject. WP:COI describes the policy governing any edits made to an article that might benefit an editor more than the encyclopaedia itself. Since the picture is something you took, and thus were able to release the rights too, it was a party which you ostensibly attended. Therefore, your purpose in adding the picture is not one of purely encyclopaedic nature, but might also be used for self promotion. Since the context of that picture is still unclear, a reasonable person could not say with any accuracy why you decided to put it there or what benefit it would truly have in this article that isn't for purely decorative purposes. Cumulus Clouds 09:30, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Mister Cumulus Clouds, stop trying to take the moral high ground. It's patently clear that you have been stalking your opponent and tried to secretly remove his images to get back at him after he offended you. So let's set your track record straight. Now, as for the image, before even getting to what is wrong with the party image, let's start with why's it's legit. Are not Halloween parties an aspect of Halloween? Does the picture not depict such a party? This is such an open-and-shut case. Manderiko 08:41, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay the long and short is -- the picture is for a costume party. Quite clearly. The article talks about costume parties. Chensiyuan 08:55, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Self-promotion? Promote what? I'm not going to make any more points. I have made my points. Let the others decide. Chensiyuan 09:47, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Manderikio - the picture is of a costume party. The article is not. Do you think a picture of a turnip would be appropriate here, even if it was uncarved? What if we added the tag "a turnip lantern before carving". We only have the posters word for it that the party was at halloween. We don't know whether it represents all costume parties. Furthermore, costume parties are NOT Halloween and trick-or-treating is not the same as going to a costume party 195.153.45.54 11:40, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[:Image:Hallocan.JPG]]

message: I looked through the talk page and couldn't find a conversation about this. Should this page not be moved to Hallowe'en, because that's what it's actually called in the OED? As the shortened form of All Hallows Eve, it's just the same as shortening the to t' and to 'n'. As I say, I've looked throught the archives, but I'd be surprised if this hasn't been discussed before. BertieBasset 01:09, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm having trouble understanding your second sentence. — Walloon 03:58, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: you're right about the apostrophe. Chensiyuan 12:47, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I disagree. In the U.S. Halloween in the standard usage, and the page has not been moved since creation, so it is likely it was always located at "Halloween". We should not change this unnecessarily, then. --Eyrian 16:58, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not advocating the "move page", only the part pertaining to the apostrophe. Chensiyuan 00:55, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Hallowe'en