Talk:List of German queens

message: Strictly speaking, Elizabeth of Pommern didn't become Empress in 1368; she'd already been Empress since 1363, when she married Charles IV who was already Emperor, and acquired the title in his right.  The coronation was a formality.  I'd originally intended to have a column for coronations, but (1) couldn't find the data for the whole list and (2) there would have to be columns for Germany as well as the Empire and sometimes also Italy and Burgundy. Too much.  Maybe they could be listed in an auxiliary article. RandomCritic 17:14, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh dear. According to one book on Empress Matilda, she was never truly Empress, because she had not been crowned as such by a recognised Pope. Thus, she apparently was Queen of Germany (having been crowned as such after going to Germany), but not Empress (she claimed she had been anointed as such by the Pope, but had only been crowned as Empress by an anti-Pope). This being according to The Empress Matilda by Marjorie Chibnall. On the other hand, Chibnall claims that 'Empress-consort' would - theoretically - have been appropriate. All in all, I think perhaps trying to work in coronation dates - where available - into the boxes would be best. Michaelsanders 19:33, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Basically, the problem stems from the fact that 'Holy Roman Emperor' was a formal title only, bestowed by the Pope, and without territory. So where in a normal Kingdom, the title of Queen would automatically be bestowed upon the King's wife when they married, the title 'Holy Roman Empress' lay specifically within the gift of the Pope as much as that of Emperor. So whilst logically the wife of the Holy Roman Emperor would be the Empress consort, it wasn't necessarily the case. I suppose if we know enough coronation dates for the Queens, we could list their Papal crowning as Empress in a separate column. Michaelsanders 19:40, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The matter is a bit tricky because of the peculiar status of the Imperial dignity (which had no formal mark of inception other than the coronation), but I find it hard to believe that it's really so much different from that of other European monarchies, where the wife of a king is, crowned or not, the queen.  The question of Imperial coronations for Empresses is a fascinating one, but I have serious doubts about whether "Empress" was ever a dignity separable and independent from "Empress consort"; if it were, it would imply that the Pope could crown an Empress who was not the wife of the Emperor, and that she would continue as Empress plain and simple, not "Empress Dowager", after her husband's death. Anyway, Matilda made continual (and effective) use of her "Empress" title, quite apart from the coronation.  Did any of her contemporaries ever challenge her on the subject? RandomCritic 19:57, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

text:  By way of comparison, there's an article Coronation of the British monarch and List of coronations of British monarchs, the latter giving dates for the coronations of queens as well as kings.  Perhaps an article Coronation of the Holy Roman Emperor could be created, which would include both details of the coronation itself , and a list of coronations, dates, officiants, and whether they were solitary or with an Empress or of an Empress alone.  The Imperial coronation was a remarkably infrequent event; I count only twenty times that an Emperor was crowned from 962 to 1530 -- only sixteen times by a Pope. RandomCritic 20:03, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably the best solution. As for continuing as Empress after the death of the husband, I suppose she would - indeed, that's why Matilda continued to use the title even after her remarriage (she apparently confused her contemporaries, because she led them to believe she had been crowned by the Pope, whereas she'd been legitimately crowned Queen of Germany, crowned Empress by an anti-Pope or someone claiming Papal authority, and had been married to an anointed Emperor). I think something of the same holds, or held, true for Queens everywhere - where a Dowager Duchess could no longer use her title after remarriage, a Queen dowager would still be Queen after remarriage, because she had been crowned and anointed as such (duchesses aren't anointed). I think, however, for the purposes of this article, that it would be best to simply list them as becoming Empress consort whenever appropriate, and leave the complexities of crowning and titles to your suggested separate article. Michaelsanders 20:17, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Titles and coronations

message: If there are problems with the information and/or sourcing in this article we could, like, discuss them -- that's what the Talk page is for.  Going immediately to revert warring is completely uncool. I'm reproducing both versions below so there can be discussion.  In the meantime, I've removed both versions.RandomCritic 21:42, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Basta!

message: Okay this original article List of Holy Roman Empresses and German queens was split up to List of Holy Roman Empresses  and List of German queens but this redirect only redirect to List of German Queens instead of List of Holy Roman Empresses.  Whoever did this needs to fix it again and change all links to List of Holy Roman Empresses and German queens to either List of Holy Roman Empresses or List of German queens. --Queen Elizabeth II's Little Spy (talk) 04:38, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Links to [[List of Holy Roman Empresses and German queens]] 

message: Hi, I noticed that the formatting of the table in the House of Habsburg-Lorraine section has gotten to a point where all the information is warped and in incorrect areas. Could someone more qualified than I am take a look at that? Thanks. Unlimitedlead (talk) 01:59, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  House of Habsburg-Lorraine 

message: Elisabeth of Brunswick-Lüneburg, who was unopposed Queen Consort from 3 October 1247 to 28 January 1256, is missing from this list  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:A450:A90E:1:88D6:9374:F99D:6E00 (talk) 23:02, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  House of Holland