Talk:Travel document

message: The title of this article is unacceptably vague.  Many countries consider passports to be travel documents.  Notice that the Passport article already falls into the category of International Travel Documents.  Perhaps you could explain to me how a passport can be an international travel document without being a travel document.  Jonathan David Makepeace 23:08, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Credit me with some sense - it's my job to train airlines on passport and visa regulations and I have been in the game 20 years. A passport isn't a travel document because it confers nationality. A travel document is a Tdoc because it doesn't confer nationality. Thems the accepted international definitions. If its not clear I can add a definition section. --Spartaz 23:13, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Show me the international convention that says that passports aren't travel documents but alien's passports and certificates of identity are. We both know that passports aren't _Convention_ travel documents.  Here, for just one example, the New Zealand government clearly defines passports as travel documents: http://www.immigration.govt.nz/NZIS/operations_manual/5507.htm Jonathan David Makepeace 23:45, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Here the U.S. government clearly refers to passports as travel documents: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cbpmc/cbpmc_2225.html  Do you really think that Canada issues over 3 million travel documents by your definition every year? http://www.ppt.gc.ca/about/products.aspx?lang=e (They explicitly state that 98% of the travel documents they issue are passports.) Jonathan David Makepeace 23:57, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I think you are right. We were always trained to consider passports and tdocs as separate entities but logically a passport is also a travel document because it confers identity. This gives us the opportunity to expand this article to cover ID cards, direct to main passport article and keep the stuff on non-national documents. I have already corrected the definition and will add a types section tomorrow when I have some sleep (I'm on GMT+2 here). I'll also fix the definition in the passport article before I go to bed. --Spartaz 00:34, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't have time to work on it right now, but it might be best to consolidate the article on alien's passports and certificates of identity into this article. The term "alien's passport" passport is pretty much unambiguous, but a certificate of identity means different things when issued by different countries. Another term that needs treatment is "laissez-passer," and, again, different countries use the term differently--not too mention the U.N., which also issues them. Brazil issues laissez-passers to nationals of countries it doesn't recognize, for travel to Brazil. Many countries issue them to their own citizens abroad, usually for an emergency one-way trip home.  Then there is the Israeli "Travel Document in lieu of a National Passport," which is issued to immigrants under the law of return who have not yet resided in Israel for at least one year.  Israel doesn't issue them full passports because other countries insist that passports should only be issued to someone with a relevant connection to a country.  (Otherwise any Jew in the world could show up in Israel for a few weeks and immediately leave the country with a new identity.)  Another reason is that Israel discourages Jews from claiming citizenship unless they actually intend to live in Israel.  The TDiloaNP is a red flag to other countries that, yes, he's legally an Israeli but not by birth or naturalization (which is a different process requiring long-term residence in Israel).  Another concern I have is with the use of the phrase "confer nationality."  Documents do not confer nationality.  They are evidence of nationality.  Laws and authorities "confer" nationality.  Some certificates of identity actually state the purported nationality of the de facto stateless person, with a phrase something like "The bearer claims to be a national of Somalia."  By making such statements the issuing government alerts other governments to the bearer's connection to his purported home country.  Laws usually require that a full national passport be accepted as evidence of nationality, with the burden of proof placed on anyone who claims otherwise.  Under U.S. federal law a state-issued birth certificate is merely evidence of citizenship, not proof.  The only documents that conclusively prove U.S. nationality are U.S. passports, U.S. citizenship certificates, consular reports of birth and certificates of birth abroad of a U.S. citizen. Jonathan David Makepeace 21:16, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Notes

message: I plan to do three things:
:remove the link in the starting paragraph on the UN travel doc convention as I can not find any source; even on the UN page. I think it is meant to link to the refugee travel documents
:remove the specific info on the US as it has much general info (refugee) and the specific info is not complete. 
:remove the info china (same reason). 
Let me know here/improve if anything should be kept!  L.tak 11:34, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Ref. to UNCTD at lead is a load of waffle. Feel free to edit this article mercilessly! RashersTierney (talk) 22:23, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: done! L.tak 08:25, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  removing content

message: dear, can you please check for me if this is true the Mozambique government is issuing some travelling document that their customs workers are considering them as not legit ,i say so because every time when we cross the boarder using these documents the on duty workers are claiming to cancel them and demand cash so that we can pass.this is done in Mozambican side only.they say the need work permit yet the document is written travel document.is this document not capable for travelling only.can you please check with the Mozambique government if this document is for working only ore either is for both work and travelling.or you can just check for me the wright place where i can report this matter.06:52, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  about Mozanbique travel document 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion 

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