Talk:Carob

message: Recent article in Seattle Times cautions about landscaping with Carobs because of pungent smell. Flowers only?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.126.14.76 (talk) 00:25, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Smells?

message: Okay, so carob is simultaneously a laxative AND a diarrhea corrective? Am I a biology idiot, or are these in conflict? 96.10.70.66 02:30, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Some people in northern India claim Rhino horn is a natural aphrodisiac. I'm assuming these are merely claims based on tradition (of which carob has a long history). I don't know whether these claims are true (i.e. whether Egyptians and others actually made them), but the article should probably distinguish between cultural uses of carob and scientific/experimentally verified information. Good point though. LostCause 07:35, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

text: I contacted User talk:Deb#Carob who added the original claim. Samfreed 08:54, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

text: She says that she must have copied it from somewhere but has no reference or knowledge to this effect. I am removing the "diarrhea corrective" thing. Samfreed 15:54, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I was told by an herbologist at Wild Oats that carob is indead a diarrhea corrective, due to its effectiveness as a thickening agent.  -- Logotu 18:46, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

text: It has been used as a diarrhea corrective. I cannot personally vouch for it as I have not had need of it, but there are papers on the subject http://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476%2851%2980276-2/abstract and Nestlé used to market a product made from carob called Arobon that was to help correct diarrhea in infants. I have seen the old marketing materials for Arobon myself in the special collections of UC Riverside. Spidra (talk) 21:22, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Conflict?

message: Can anybody write on the use of carob as an alternative to chocolate? wjl Mar 27, 05
Does carob taste just like chocolate, or does it just taste similar? I've taste carob before and I noticed that it tasted slightly different from chocolate. Scorpionman 00:37, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Personally I think it tastes more like syrupy banana than chocolate, in its unprocessed form. illspirit|talk 11:47, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Fixed that, to what I consider an appropriate degree. BTW, you may want to get yourself an account on wikipedia and edit stuff yourself. Just read up a bit about the wikipedia first!Samfreed 23:12, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Carob is definitely an alternative to chocolate. It does has a different taste (often more bitter), but carob is used in a lot of products where chocolate isn't wanted. They also have "carob chips" and "carob powder", used for baking. -- MacAddct1984 19:40, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Carob is used for diabetic chocolate, IIRC. illspirit|talk 02:01, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Chocolate?

message: What is the green fungus at the base of carob trees & Will it kill the tree ?
:"Green fungus" is not description of anything, and this is not a gardening Q&A forum. Samfreed 23:12, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Misc

message: Algarrobo redirects here. Unfortunately, the Spanish name "algarrobo" is not just this carob tree, but also refers to several South American species, such as Prosopis alba, which is called "algarrobo blanco"; the name was given by the Spanish precisely because it looked similar to the European carob tree. To maintainers of tree articles, I suggest keeping an eye on this. I'm about to change Algarrobo into a disambig, just like Palo santo (for the same reason). --Pablo D. Flores 18:02, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confusion of species 

message: I just stumbled across a story about Honi HaM'agel and a carob tree, in which the long time (70 years?) required for such a tree to reach maturity and bear fruit is central. Worth mentioning? --Stickler 10:53, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Honi HaM'agel 

message: The author of the sited article clearly states "more squeamish Christian commentators" & himself believe John the Baptist ate carob pods, not Christians in general as the uncorrected statement might have implied  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zerothis (talk • contribs) 20:00, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Christian Tradition 

message: I added a new reference that is quite extensive, and I've cited it numerous times, but for some reason it keeps showing as a separate entry each time.  I will try to fix this, but for now bear with me please.  Halogenated (talk) 14:44, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: For a university project I'd like to ad some more information. The new ecology section would look like this:
As a xerophytic (drought-resistant) species, carob is well adapted to the ecological conditions of the Mediterranean region with 250 to 500 mm of rainfall per year.. Carob trees can survive long drought periods but to grow fruit they need 500 to 550 mm rainfall per year . Trees  prefer well-drained sandy loams and are intolerant of waterlogging, but the deep root systems can adapt to a wide variety of soil conditions and are fairly salt-tolerant (up to 3% NaCl in soil) . After irrigation with saline water in summer Carob trees could possibly also recover during rainfalls in winter . In some experiments young carob trees could uphold basical physiological functions at 40 mmol NaCl/L 
Not all legume species can develop a symbiosis with Rhizobia to use atmospheric Nitrogen. For Carob it remains unclear if it has this ability: Some findings suggest that it is not able to form nodules with Rhizobia  while in an other study trees have been found with nodules containing bacteria believed to be from the Rhizobium genus . However measuring the 15N-signal in plant tissue did not support that carob trees in the field can use atmospheric nitrogen.
Rueeggjo (talk) 18:59, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  new ecology information 

message: I would also like to add Information on the uses of Carob. Therefore I would restructure the chapter and add some subchapters with the new Information. It would then look like that:
The carob pod consists of two main parts which have very different composition and are seprarately used to produce different goods: The pulp accounts for 90% and the seeds for 10% of the pod weight .
===Composition and use of the pulp===
The pulp contains about 48 - 56% of sugars and 18% of cellulose and hemicellulose . There are some differences in sugar contents between wild and cultivated types: Sucrose  = 531g ± 93 g/kg dry  weight for  cultivated varieties and 437 ± 77 g/kg  in wild type  varieties.  Fructose and glucose levels do not differ  between cultivated  and wild  type carob. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0308814605010824
Carob pulp is sold as flour or chunks . It can be also consumed directly from the dried (and sometimes  roasted) pod. Carob is mildly sweet and is used in powdered, chip, or syrup form as an ingredient in cakes and  cookies. From the pulp substitutes for cocoa can be produced .
Chocolate contains theobromine, which is poisonous to  some mammals, but carob does not, and is used to make chocolate-flavored  treats for dogs Burg, Barbara. Good Treats For Dogs Cookbook for Dogs: 50 Home-Cooked Treats for Special Occasions. Quarry Books, 2007, p. 28.
===Composition and use of the seeds===
The production of Locust Bean Gum (LGB) a thickening agent used in food industry is the economically most important use of the carob seeds (and of the carob as a whole) today. It is produced from the endosperm which accounts for 42 - 46% of the seed and is rich in galactomannans (88% of endosperm dry mass). For 1 kg LBG 3kg of kernels are needed which come from approximately 30 kg carob tree fruit. Galactomannans are hydrophile and swell in water. LGB is used as a thickening agent, stabilizer, gelling agent or as a substitute for gluten in low-calory-products. If galactomannans are mixed with other gelling substances like carrageenan they can be used to thicken food. This is used  extensively in canned food for animals to get the jellied texture.
The embryo (20-25% of the seeds weight) is rich in proteins (50%) and its flour can be used in human and animal nutrition .
The testa (30-33% of the seeds weight) is the seed coat and consists of cellulose, lignin and tannin .
===Animal feeding===
Traditionally the pulp for animal feeding was the most important use of carob fruits . 
In the Iberian Peninsula, carob pods were used mainly as animal fodder, especially to feed donkeys.
Carob pod meal is used as  an energy-rich and palatable feed for livestock, particularly for  ruminants, though its high tannin  content may limit its use.
===Traditional uses===
Beside the traditional use as livestock feeding there are various traditions in different countries for using the carob pods:
...here I would put the existing information about usesearticle
This sentence I would delete, as I found no evidence of it: Carob pods were an important source of sugar before sugarcane and sugar beets became widely available.[citation needed]
===Ornamental use of the carob tree===
...existing article again
Rueeggjo (talk) 19:11, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  New information and structure for "Uses" chapter 

message: ...existing article again
Rueeggjo (talk) 19:11, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Ornamental use of the carob tree

message: And last but not least I would like to add a chapter for Cultivation and the first subchapter of it: harvest and post-harvest treatment:
===Harvest and post-harvest treatment===
The most labour intensive part of carob cultivation is harvesting which is often done by knocking the fruit down with a long stick and gathering them together with the help of lied-out nets. This is a difficult task because at the same time the trees are flowering and care has to be taken not to damage the flowers. Research to get the fruit to ripen more uniformely or also for cultivars which can be mechanically harvested (by shaking) is recommended in the literature.
After harvest carob pods have a moisture content of 10-20% and should be dried down to a moisture content of 8% so the pods don't rot. Further processing is done to separate kernels (seeds) from the pulp. This process is called kibbling and results in pieces of carob pods (kibbles). Processing of the pulp includes grinding for animal feed production or roasting and milling for human food industry. The seeds have to be peeled which happens with acid or through roasting. Then the endosperm and the embryo are separated for the different uses.
Rueeggjo (talk) 19:15, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cultivation 

message: The most labour intensive part of carob cultivation is harvesting which is often done by knocking the fruit down with a long stick and gathering them together with the help of lied-out nets. This is a difficult task because at the same time the trees are flowering and care has to be taken not to damage the flowers. Research to get the fruit to ripen more uniformely or also for cultivars which can be mechanically harvested (by shaking) is recommended in the literature.
After harvest carob pods have a moisture content of 10-20% and should be dried down to a moisture content of 8% so the pods don't rot. Further processing is done to separate kernels (seeds) from the pulp. This process is called kibbling and results in pieces of carob pods (kibbles). Processing of the pulp includes grinding for animal feed production or roasting and milling for human food industry. The seeds have to be peeled which happens with acid or through roasting. Then the endosperm and the embryo are separated for the different uses.
Rueeggjo (talk) 19:15, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Harvest and post-harvest treatment

message: ===Cultivation and Orchard-Management===
The vegetative propagation of Carob is restricted due to it's low adventitious rooting potential, which could be improved by using better grafting-techniques such as air-laying <ref1=Gubbuk et al. 2011>. Therefore seeds are still widely used as the propagation medium. The sowing occurs in pot nurseries in early spring and the cooling- and drying-sensitive seedlings are then transplanted to the field in the next year after the last frost.                         
Carob trees enter slowly into production phase. Where in areas with good growing conditions the cropping starts 3-4 years after budding, the nonbearing   period can take up to 8 years in regions with marginal soils. Full bearing of the trees occurs mostly at a tree-age of 20-25 years where the yield stabilizes <ref name=ipgri>.
The orchards are traditionally planted in low densities of about 25-45 trees/hectare. Hermaphrodite plants or male trees, which do not produce pods, are usually planted in lower densities in the orchards as pollinators. Intercropping with other tree species is widely spread.
There is not much cultivation management required. Only light pruning and occasional tilling to reduce weeds is necessary. Nitrogen-fertilizing of the plants has been showed to have positive impacts on yielding-performance. <ref name=ipgri> 
                                   
===Pests and Diseases===
There are only few pests known to cause severe damage in carob orchards therefore it has traditionally not been treated with pesticides. 
Some generalist pests like the larva of the leopard moth (Zeuzera pyrina L.), small rodents like rats  (Rattus spp.) and gophers (Pitymys spp.) can cause damage occasionally in some regions. Only some cultivars are severely susceptible to mildew disease (Oidium ceratoniae C.). 
One pest directly associated with carobs is the larva of the carob moth (Myelois ceratoniae Z.) which can cause extensive post-harvest-damage. <ref name=ipgri>
===Cultivars and Breeding-aims=== 
Most of the approximately 50 known cultivars <ref name=ipgri> are of unknown origin and only regionally distributed. The cultivars show high genetic and therefore morphological and agronomical variation. <ref name=ipgri>
No conventional breeding by controlled crossing has been reported but there has been done selection from orchards or wild populations. 
Domesticated carobs (var. edulis) can be distinguished from their wild relatives (var. silvestris) by some fruit-yielding traits like building of greater beans, more pulp and higher sugar contents. Also there was an genetic adoption of some varieties to the climatic requirements of their growing-regions <ref name=ipgri>. Though there was a partially successful breaking of the dioecy, the yield of hermaphroditic trees still can't compete with that of female plants as their pod-bearing properties are worse <ref2=Zohary, D. (2002)>.
Future breeding would be focused on processing-quality-aspects as well as on properties for better mechanization of harvest or better yielding hermaphroditic plants. The use of modern breeding techniques is restricted due to low polymorphism for molecular markers. <ref name=ipgri>
</ref1=Gubbuk, H., Gunes, E., Ayala-Silva, T. and Ercisli, S. (2011). "Rapid Vegetative Propagation Method for Carob." Notulae Botanicae Horti Agrobotanici Cluj-Napoca 39(1): 251-254.>
<ref2=Zohary, D. (2002). "Domestication of the carob (Ceratonia siliqua L.)." Israel Journal of Plant Sciences 50: S141-S145.>
Caecusvanarbus (talk) 15:44, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  New information on agricultural aspacts 

message: Most of the approximately 50 known cultivars <ref name=ipgri> are of unknown origin and only regionally distributed. The cultivars show high genetic and therefore morphological and agronomical variation. <ref name=ipgri>
No conventional breeding by controlled crossing has been reported but there has been done selection from orchards or wild populations. 
Domesticated carobs (var. edulis) can be distinguished from their wild relatives (var. silvestris) by some fruit-yielding traits like building of greater beans, more pulp and higher sugar contents. Also there was an genetic adoption of some varieties to the climatic requirements of their growing-regions <ref name=ipgri>. Though there was a partially successful breaking of the dioecy, the yield of hermaphroditic trees still can't compete with that of female plants as their pod-bearing properties are worse <ref2=Zohary, D. (2002)>.
Future breeding would be focused on processing-quality-aspects as well as on properties for better mechanization of harvest or better yielding hermaphroditic plants. The use of modern breeding techniques is restricted due to low polymorphism for molecular markers. <ref name=ipgri>
</ref1=Gubbuk, H., Gunes, E., Ayala-Silva, T. and Ercisli, S. (2011). "Rapid Vegetative Propagation Method for Carob." Notulae Botanicae Horti Agrobotanici Cluj-Napoca 39(1): 251-254.>
<ref2=Zohary, D. (2002). "Domestication of the carob (Ceratonia siliqua L.)." Israel Journal of Plant Sciences 50: S141-S145.>
Caecusvanarbus (talk) 15:44, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Cultivars and Breeding-aims

message: Most of the approximately 50 known cultivars <ref name=ipgri> are of unknown origin and only regionally distributed. The cultivars show high genetic and therefore morphological and agronomical variation. <ref name=ipgri> No conventional breeding by controlled crossing has been reported but there has been done selection from orchards or wild populations.Domesticated carobs (var. edulis) can be distinguished from their wild relatives (var. silvestris) by some fruit-yielding traits like building of greater beans, more pulp and higher sugar contents. Also there was an genetic adoption of some varieties to the climatic requirements of their growing-regions <ref name=ipgri>. Though there was a partially successful breaking of the dioecy, the yield of hermaphroditic trees still can't compete with that of female plants as their pod-bearing properties are worse <ref2=Zohary, D. (2002)>.Future breeding would be focused on processing-quality-aspects as well as on properties for better mechanization of harvest or better yielding hermaphroditic plants. The use of modern breeding techniques is restricted due to low polymorphism for molecular markers. <ref name=ipgri></ref1=Gubbuk, H., Gunes, E., Ayala-Silva, T. and Ercisli, S. (2011). "Rapid Vegetative Propagation Method for Carob." Notulae Botanicae Horti Agrobotanici Cluj-Napoca 39(1): 251-254.><ref2=Zohary, D. (2002). "Domestication of the carob (Ceratonia siliqua L.)." Israel Journal of Plant Sciences 50: S141-S145.>Caecusvanarbus (talk) 15:44, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Cultivars and Breeding-aims

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Ceratonia siliqua. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110728134522/http://www.turkish-cuisine.org/english/pages.php?ParentID=6&FirstLevel=95 to http://www.turkish-cuisine.org/english/pages.php?ParentID=6&FirstLevel=95
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130114151638/http://faostat.fao.org/site/567/DesktopDefault.aspx?PageID=567 to http://faostat.fao.org/site/567/DesktopDefault.aspx?PageID=567
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 20:33, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The Hebrew word "חרוב" was transcribed as "harub" while it is actually "haruv" (or: charoov/haroov etc. Personally I prefer "Kharoov"). --37.46.38.81 (talk) 05:50, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hebrew transcription incorrect 

message: It should be titled "Carob" and the first sentences should be "The carob pod is an edible fruit produced by the carob tree (Ceratonia siliqua). Carob trees are native to the Mediterranean region and the tree is widely cultivated for its edible fruit or as an ornamental tree in gardens." 
The apple article begins "An apple is a sweet, edible fruit produced by an apple tree (Malus pumila). Apple trees are cultivated worldwide, and are the most widely grown species in the genus Malus." Bod (talk) 21:19, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article should be structured similarly to [[apple]] 

message: This edit was justified by WP:ELNO as low-value additional links that do not improve the article, WP:NOTRECIPE and WP:NOTHOWTO (Wikipedia is not a cookbook or reference book for recipes), and WP:NOTNEWS (such as the Australian link added here). Zefr (talk) 01:35, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links removed 

message: From [43], concerning the theobromine and caffeine content of carob products, : "Theobromine and caffeine levels in carob products ranged from 0-0.504 mg/g and 0-0.067 mg/g, respectively."
This reference is cited for the clause : "While chocolate contains the chemical compound theobromine in levels that are toxic to some mammals, carob contains none, and it also has no caffeine, so it is sometimes used to make chocolate-like treats for dogs. [43],[44],[45] "
Stupid. 172.243.144.242 (talk) 18:03, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  reference in conflict with clause referenced