Talk:DOS/360 and successors

message: I know that it is Wikipedia policy to squash trivia sections, as requested by a recent  tag; but I think that sometimes they are appropriate, and I think this is an example. Both of the entries here are a) interesting enough to keep, b) out of the main discussion, and c) adjuncts to a small/stub article that IMO shouldn't be diluted with trivial asides in the main content. Perhaps they should go into footnotes, but then they would be nearly invisible. This is of course only my opinion, and it isn't the party line, but I don't think that a "miscellany" section is intrinsically something that needs to be removed/merged, particularly in a short article. I do recognize that they are a problem in mature articles; but isn't this a different situation? Trevor Hanson 07:00, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. The item about GECOS aims to refute an apparent urban myth; and the item about MS-DOS clears up an obvious source of confusion. Philcha 00:39, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Miscellany/trivia 

message: After a big edit of MVS I concluded that the whole set of articles about IBM mainframe operating systems from System/360 onwards needed to be re-structured to  minimise overlap and to make clearer the evolutionary relationships between these operating systems (notably in memory management, which is historically a major distinguishing feature). There is already some support for this proposal. Please add comments at Talk: MVS. Philcha 23:56, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Restructure of articles about IBM mainframe operating systems

message: As part of the proposed restructure of articles on IBM mainframe operating systems (above), I've rewritten Job Control Language to: cover IBM's DOS/360 and its descendants as well as OS/360 and its descendants; focus more on the facilities and flavour of the 2 JCLs rather than on details of  some statement types and some of their options. Please comment in Talk: Job Control Language. I'd be particulary grateful for more info on DOS/360 and its descendants, especially after 1980 - I only used DOS JCL a handful of times, and only in the late 1970s.
The rewrite does not currently take account of Truthanado's point in Talk: Job Control Language about use of "JCL" by computer suppliers other than IBM, which may entail further restructuring of articles about JCLs. Philcha 00:41, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Rewrite of [[Job Control Language]] in progress

message: I think this artice should be ranamed to DOS/360 and successors and be merged with DOS/VS, DOS/VSE, VSE/ESA. The Summary style will enable much better explanation and feature comparison between all the systems in line. It will result in a much more interesting article. For more discussion see Talk:History of IBM mainframe operating systems. To be clear, I don't think z/VSE should be merged. --Kubanczyk 14:39, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Renamed and merged with DOS/VS. --Kubanczyk (talk) 19:54, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move and merge 

message: On 7 April 2008 Kubanczyk tagged this article for a complete rewrite. Considering that (a) Kubanczyk gave no explanation as to why a rewrite might be needed (b) After nine months nobody else has responded in any way to the tag and (c) it is not evident that there is a need for a rewrite, I have removed the tag. JamesBWatson (talk) 23:20, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rewrite tag 

message: "still widely used as of 2006"... ok, that's three years ago... we need an update... is it still widely used... and what does "widely" mean, for that matter... 3 places in the world? 2000?... Where? Some podunk business of in the sticks, or, like, a major military base? Let's get with it here, people... 69.179.183.180 (talk) 01:25, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I updated it to 2011 using the best source I could find, such as it is. Peter Flass (talk) 20:13, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Simple Note 

message: There are some topics that I believe belong in this article.
*POWER
:A Spooling system for DOS
*DOS/VSE
:A new release of DOS capable of exploiting ECPS:VSE
*VSE/AF
:A program product extending DOS
*VS/SP
:A program product incorporating DOS and VSE/AF.
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 19:26, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing History 

message: DOS/360 and successors#DOS/VSE has , but VSE (operating system) is actually about z/VSE; there is no article on DOS/VSE. Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 19:50, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Improper link for DOS/VSE 

message: None of TOS/360, DOS/VS, DOS/VSE, SSX/VSE, VSE/SP, VSE/ESA or z/VSE is a DOS/360 version; the original header, ==DOS/360 versions==, was correct. Also, DOS/360 should not have been deleted from the list. Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 18:12, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I may have written the heading originally; maybe "versions" isn't the right word, but they're all in the DOS/360 "family."   "DOS/360 and successors" isn't right either. BOS should probably be mentioned also. Peter Flass (talk) 20:24, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem isn't the word versions, but changing DOS to DOS/360 in the section heading and deleting the DOS/360 subsection. DOS/360 is just one of the versions in the family. Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 21:36, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Incorrect heading ==DOS/360 versions== 

message: When I worked with IBM 360, DOS was an initialism, rather than an acronym. In other words, it was pronounced "dee-oh-ess" rather than "dos". Does anyone else think this should be mentioned somewhere? SlowJog (talk) 00:45, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: My experience also. Peter Flass (talk) 07:20, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  Remember the Wikipedia mantra: We'll need a reference. ;) Jeh (talk) 09:55, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point. Because the people I associated with used the initialism doesn't mean it was universal, or even majority. SlowJog (talk) 00:55, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

text: I've heard ASP, BOS, DOS, OS and TOS both pronounced and spelled out. But is the pronunciation in the field notable? FWIW I've only heard HASP, IbJob and IbSys pronounced and ATS, BPS, CMS, CP, TSS and VM spelled out. Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 21:46, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

text: Wow! Now I'm confused. I think we may have said both DOS and D-O-S, but I know we never said BOS, TOS, or OS. We always said B-O-S, T-O-S, and O-S. Once DOS/VS arrived, I never heard anyone say D-O-S/V-S; it was DOS/V-S. WarrenFW (talk) 06:52, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: To clarify, I've heard both DOS and D-O-S for DOS/360  "Big Oz" and O-S for OS/360; I've always heard OS/VS spelled out. Unfortunately, pronunciation can vary from shop to shop. Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 06:20, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronounciation 

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replies: text: I found where the page moved, and updated the link. Guy Harris (talk) 21:58, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I propose replacing the Transients section with the following, which puts all the A-Transient info together, followed by all the B-Transient info (first sentence is unchanged):
To further reduce memory usage the supervisor employed overlays called transients that were read into one of two reserved transient areas as required:
* Physical transients were loaded into the 556 byte A-Transient area to handle hardware errors (ERPs), record error-specific data (OBR/MDR) on SYSREC, and issue error messages. All A-Transient module names began with $$A.
* Logical transients were loaded into the 1200 byte B-Transient area to provided common program services like OPEN and CLOSE for LIOCS. All B-Transient module names began with $$B.
The use of $$A and $$B prefixes ensured rapid loading of transients because their names were stored first in the directory.
DOS/VS added Channel Check Handlers, which were another set of transients all starting with $$RAST and executing in their own transient area. Before this addition, channel errors caused termination of the program accessing the device at the time of the error.
I don’t intend to include this, but they should have reversed the $$A and $$B prefixes so the logical transient names came first. OPEN and CLOSE were regular occurrences, while ERP/OBR/MDR were initiated only after a hardware error, time was already lost because of the error, and some of those errors were not recoverable: bus out check, data check, equipment check, overrun, etc.
I put the CCH transient info at the end because it was added as part of the reliability, availability, and serviceability (RAS) enhancements with System/370 and I can’t remember the size of that transient area. WarrenFW (talk) 08:15, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Transients