Talk:Chinese guardian lions

message: There's a sentence that says Fu is Chinese for 'happiness', but the entry for Fu doesn't indicate that. Can someone verify? Donutz 04:18, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: 福 fú does in fact mean "happiness" or "good fortune". --Dpr 07:20, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

text: Done. howcheng  {chat} 17:39, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: A Chinese told me that the female lion is in fact nurturing her cub by her left paw. Could someone verify. 85.124.40.135 16:53, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nurturing? 

message: My parents once told me that the stone ball found in the lions' mouth was for good luck. Essentially, people would roll it around and after enough time, it would erode and fall out. If it fell out when you rolled it, that was extremely good luck. It's a good factoid to put in this article, but I can't seem to find a citation anywhere. howcheng  {chat} 03:49, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If it rolls out while you are rolling it, you're most likely to get fined for damaging public property. Not good luck! 8-) --Sumple (Talk) 02:38, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stone ball in the mouth 

message: The male is actually on the left and the female is on the right from the dwelling and from the lion's point of view.  The article is written from an external perspective of someone viewing the structure being protected by the lions.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.146.13.69 (talk) 01:45, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Right and Left 

message: I don't see why "Guardian lions" redirect here, when there are many western style lion statue pairs to the entrances of buildings and other places, possibly originating from western heraldry, and there should very well be an article on examples of such. 67.5.147.10 (talk) 09:04, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Guardian lions" redirect. 

message: Buddhist monks saw stone Asiatic lions guarding temples and palaces in India not stone Dogs as someone has inserted incorrectly in this article. Hearing stories from monks about Indian lions the ancient Chinese sculptors used local Chinese dogs to sculpt Chinese version of the lion as no one in China had ever seen a real lion then.......... even though Asiatic / Indian lions were common in India then across the Himalayas (mountain range).
Kindly find correct references and list them here, Thanks
Atulsnischal (talk) 10:32, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Traveling Buddhist monks saw stone [[Asiatic lions]] guarding temples and palaces in [[India]] not stone Dogs

message: Moved Article Title from "Imperial guardian lion" to "Imperial guardian lions of China"
Imperial guardian lions of China is appropriate because: 
* 1) These particular ones are Specific to China and their appearance is very specefic to China, and other types exist in India and elsewhere 
* 2)It is always a pair of lions now and the Imperial guarding lions are a definite pair not a single lion, a male and a female, hence the title can not be Singular, hence the title with "lions" not "Lion".
Atulsnischal (talk) 10:48, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Moved Article Title

message: Hello
Maybe I should make myself clear again I have noticed that Chinese guardian lions article page is getting vandalized regularly over the last many months by people spreading false information about them and insisting on calling "Lions" by the name of "DOG" they replace the word "Lion" in the article to "DOG", Chinese guardian lions are statues of "LIONS" (Not DOGS and Nor LION DOGS but Just LIONS) called Foo or Fu lions, meaning lions of Buddha. When Buddhist monks brought stories to ancient China from India that statues of stone lions were commonly seen outside Buddhist temple and monastery entrances in India (As real wild Asiatic lions were common in India then, which at that time no one had ever seen in ancient China of those days) and in front of palaces of kings in India, the people of China where Buddhism was spread by traveling monks from India wanted to make statues of those lions for similar purposes in China but no body and nor any sculptor in whole of China had ever seen a real lion before as they did not occur at all in China, Chinese sculptures modeled their own Chinese lion statues after the stories that came from India with traveling monks using Chinese Dogs as a model. But the resulting statues crafted by sculptures in ancient China took the shape of a Lion which was quite different from a real lion, sort of a lion-dog hybrid as Chinese sculptures used local dogs as models, never the less these statues became an Icon and came to be called as Chinese guardian lions still considered guardian spirits etc. in modern China of today, these statues are representations of Lions and very different from dogs. These statues are called Lions and are not called Dogs; but various wikipedia editors are repeatedly changing the text from "Foo or Fu LIONS" to "Foo or Fu DOGS" and "LIONS of Buddha" to "DOGS of Buddha", from "Stone LIONS" to "Stone DOGS" in the article on Chinese guardian lions. Because of this misinformation contained in this often vandalized article, several websites around the world-wide-web are calling these lions by the name of Foo or Fu Dogs it seems or stone dogs etc.. 
Making and shipping of these stone lions is a big industry in China as Chinese houses, buildings, restaurants etc. around the world like to install these stone lions in front of their entrances. It seems these "stone lions" are being called and misrepresented as "stone dogs" by marketers in the west to make them more appealing in the western countries due to their consumerist economy and to increase their sales of stone lions crafted in China are being marketed in the west as stone Dogs. 
As for "real LION DOGS" or "Foo or Fu Dogs", they are just closely related actual living Dog Breeds from ancient China on whom the ancient Chinese Sculptures of that time had based the Lion statues on, as no one in China had ever seen a real lion before in those times. Hence as the ICON of "Chinese guardian lions" were created by sculptures in ancient China, these ancient Chinese Dog breeds in return came to resemble them closely hence these live dog breeds are known as "real LION DOGS" or "Foo or Fu Dogs" as they resembel Chinese guardian lions as sculptures based the lion statues on dog models.
Chinese guardian lions are Foo or Fu LIONS not DOGS as being persistently vandalized on the Chinese guardian lions article page. This article should be locked and editors should be asked to research more and cite sources. It looks like that Commercial website owners selling these stone lions in the west are fraudulently calling them "stone Dogs" instead of "stone LIONS" to make them more appealing to increase their sales in the west, these business owners should not be allowed to vandalize this article to mean DOG Statues and spread misinformation to make their products (stone lion statues) more appealing to the customers in western cultures.
99.235.98.169 (talk) 04:59, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Its Foo Lions or Fu Lions and Buddha's Lions NOT Foo Dogs NOR Fu Dogs and NOT Buddha's Dogs

message: 'Foo Dog or Fu Dog (Lion Dog) refers to any of the following closely related Dog breeds originating in ancient China which came to resemble the Chinese guardian lions which were modeled after them and hence these dog breeds came to be called  Lion Dogs. Fu or Foo refers to Lions of Buddha guarding the Dharma and Buddhist Monasteries. It is believed that the Chow Chow breed of Chinese dogs is one of the native dogs used as the original model for the creation of Chinese guardian lions in ancient China when no one had ever seen a real Asiatic lion before which were however quite common in neighboring India. At the time stories reached China that Buddhist temples and monasteries in India were being guarded by the traditional stone lions found in front of Buddhist temples and palaces in India. Hearing the stories carried there by Buddhist monks traveling from India the Chinese sculptors modeled statues of Fu or Foo lions, the lions of Buddha after these native dogs as they had never seen a real lion before and created an icon of an animal never before seen in China, the Chinese guardian lions which in turn came to resemble dogs. Thus Chow Chow and any of the other following closely related Dog breeds originating in ancient China came to resemble the Chinese guardian lions modeled after them and were henceforth called  Lion Dogs:
mrigthrishna (talk) 09:52, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Intro of the separate article on [[Foo Dog]]s

message: Moved following POV comment from the article and listed here for record and further research etc.:-
"Not all lions used as symbols in China were guardian lions. Straight-haired standing lions carved on panels can be seen at the Siling Tomb of the Ming emperor Chongzhen, and the males and the females  have prominent moustaches! Similar straight-haired lions can be seen on the bases of steles at Kong Miao, and at Dong Yue Miao. There are also straight-haired lions on the panels of the main gate of the tomb of the eunuch Tian Yi, as well as on steles devoted to him. None of these lions have curly hair, have a dog-collar or bauble, or hold a ball or a cub under their paw. These straight-haired lions are real lions as perceived by the Chinese, and are symbols of courage and power. They are not connected to Buddha in any way.
"
Moved above POV comment from the article and listed here for record and further research etc.
99.235.98.169 (talk) 09:35, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Comment

message: I think we need better sources for the claim that Chinese guardian lions are depictions of dogs. There are clear resemblances between classical depictions of the lion in India (e.g. Emblem of India) with Chinese depictions of the lion. It seems quite plausible to me that classical Indian depictions of the lion were copied inaccurately in earlier times in China, and these images gradually evolved to become the more familiar shapes seen in China today. In any case, reliable sources are needed. --138.206.161.231 (talk) 05:46, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dogs as lions 

message: Seriously, I keep getting the most random messages saying I've been vandalising!  If I want to edit things, I log the hell in!  I have an account!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.190.103.99 (talk) 21:28, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Considering that your ISP appears to be Cox Communications, one of the largest in the US, I would say that quite a few people share your IP. howcheng  {chat} 23:21, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  How many people have my IP address? 

message: * Related discussion on a Forum:  Is the Chinese stone lion based on the Chow Chow?
mrigthrishna (talk) 00:07, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Noticed on Web

message: I've re-inserted two references to the term "Foo Dogs," since that's what these are commonly known as in the West (Not "Foo Lions" as someone seems to have changed it to). Acknowledged, it's obviously incorrect, but it should be noted that this incorrect name is still common -- in particular, note the sentence claiming that "Foo Lion" is the common term in most Western languages (I assume this originally said "Dog,") -- the Wikipedia entry on this in most of the other languages refers to these as "Dogs" (Perros de Fu, Lejonhund, Cans de Fu, etc.), and the "Foo Dog" disambiguation page says this as well.113.22.64.62 (talk) 13:20, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right that the term should be mentioned, but a it should be bolded as a common alt name for the article and b it shouldn't include the (unsourced and biased) term "miscalled". The simple fact is that the things don't look like actual lions at all and the English term (having nothing to do with their Chinese name or intention) is in fact often "foo dog". — LlywelynII 11:19, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Foo Dog

message: I removed the "citation needed" and the word "高麗犬" from the paragraph "In Japan", Etymology. "狛" and "高麗" are absolutely the same words which has the same meanings and the same pronunciations. You can see the fact on Japanese Wiktionary if you know Japanese. But today "高麗" is obsolete way of writing. I couldn't find a dictionary which has the convination of kanji "高麗犬", that is, they all have adopted only "狛犬" today. Though it's easy to speculate formerly "Komainu" was also written as "高麗犬".
Akiyama(tentative) (talk) 09:06, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: removed the word "高麗犬"

message: Can anyone elaborate on incarnations of the lions in earlier (pre-Yuan) dynasties? When I visited the Miaoying Temple, the lions were small more svelte, almost leopard-like. The male, with ball also seems to be on a right looking out from the building. I have a fairly decent picture.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alcestethehippo (talk • contribs) 23:33, 12 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Earlier versions 

message: This article makes veiled attempts to claim that lions or images of lions found in various foreign countries (India, Russia, Japan etc.) are in fact Chinese guardian lions. However, no reliable sources have been provided, and this seems to be WP:OR. Should these references be deleted? - Kautilya3 (talk) 10:24, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Foreign references 

message: Substituted at 11:32, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: No consensus. (non-admin closure) Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:53, 30 October 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
If this ever opens again, oppose. "Stone lion" is far more generic and the  name is entirely irrelevant on the English wiki. — LlywelynII 12:39, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 22 October 2019 

message: Hello
Maybe I should make myself clear again I have noticed that Chinese guardian lions article page is getting vandalized regularly over the last many months by people spreading false information about them and insisting on calling "Lions" by the name of "DOG" they replace the word "Lion" in the article to "DOG", Chinese guardian lions are statues of "LIONS" (Not DOGS and Nor LION DOGS but Just LIONS) called Foo or Fu lions, meaning lions of Buddha. When Buddhist monks brought stories to ancient China from India that statues of stone lions were commonly seen outside Buddhist temple and monastery entrances in India (As real wild Asiatic lions were common in India then, which at that time no one had ever seen in ancient China of those days) and in front of palaces of kings in India, the people of China where Buddhism was spread by traveling monks from India wanted to make statues of those lions for similar purposes in China but no body and nor any sculptor in whole of China had ever seen a real lion before as they did not occur at all in China, Chinese sculptures modeled their own Chinese lion statues after the stories that came from India with traveling monks using Chinese Dogs as a model. But the resulting statues crafted by sculptures in ancient China took the shape of a Lion which was quite different from a real lion, sort of a lion-dog hybrid as Chinese sculptures used local dogs as models, never the less these statues became an Icon and came to be called as Chinese guardian lions still considered guardian spirits etc. in modern China of today, these statues are representations of Lions and very different from dogs. These statues are called Lions and are not called Dogs; but various wikipedia editors are repeatedly changing the text from "Foo or Fu LIONS" to "Foo or Fu DOGS" and "LIONS of Buddha" to "DOGS of Buddha", from "Stone LIONS" to "Stone DOGS" in the article on Chinese guardian lions. Because of this misinformation contained in this often vandalized article, several websites around the world-wide-web are calling these lions by the name of Foo or Fu Dogs it seems or stone dogs etc.. 
Making and shipping of these stone lions is a big industry in China as Chinese houses, buildings, restaurants etc. around the world like to install these stone lions in front of their entrances. It seems these "stone lions" are being called and misrepresented as "stone dogs" by marketers in the west to make them more appealing in the western countries due to their consumerist economy and to increase their sales of stone lions crafted in China are being marketed in the west as stone Dogs. 
As for "real LION DOGS" or "Foo or Fu Dogs", they are just closely related actual living Dog Breeds from ancient China on whom the ancient Chinese Sculptures of that time had based the Lion statues on, as no one in China had ever seen a real lion before in those times. Hence as the ICON of "Chinese guardian lions" were created by sculptures in ancient China, these ancient Chinese Dog breeds in return came to resemble them closely hence these live dog breeds are known as "real LION DOGS" or "Foo or Fu Dogs" as they resembel Chinese guardian lions as sculptures based the lion statues on dog models.
Chinese guardian lions are Foo or Fu LIONS not DOGS as being persistently vandalized on the Chinese guardian lions article page. This article should be locked and editors should be asked to research more and cite sources. It looks like that Commercial website owners selling these stone lions in the west are fraudulently calling them "stone Dogs" instead of "stone LIONS" to make them more appealing to increase their sales in the west, these business owners should not be allowed to vandalize this article to mean DOG Statues and spread misinformation to make their products (stone lion statues) more appealing to the customers in western cultures. 99.235.98.169 (talk) 04:59, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not vandalism. They look like dogs. They get called dogs. — LlywelynII 12:35, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Chinese guardian lions]] are Foo Lions or Fu Lions and Buddha's Lions NOT Foo Dogs NOR Fu Dogs and NOT Buddha's Dogs

message: Hello.
There is an actual breed of dog called a Fu Dog, Or Chinese Foo Dog. I wish this article would expand on this. Lion Dogs are NOT the same as the breed Fu Dog.
:http://www.dooziedog.com/dog_breeds/chinese_foo_dog/  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.222.103.246 (talk) 02:22, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: All of the closely related and resembling breeds are known as LION (Fu or Foo) DOGS. The above page mentions it is cross of a Chow Chow already mentioned in the article, outside china breeders maybe trying to attract too much attention to their dog by naming their breed as foo dog but the fact remains that all resembling and related dog breeds originating in China are called foo dogs. mrigthrishna (talk) 09:07, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fu or Foo Dog as a breed