Talk:William McMahon

message: The Wikipedia Manual of Style says: "Articles with a single picture are encouraged to have that picture at the top of the article, right-aligned, but this is not a hard and fast rule. Portraits with the head looking to the right should be left-aligned (looking into the article)."
That's why I changed Billy to the left - it looks better. Pete 11:18, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Image orientation

message: TIRED OF...
Surely 'becomed disillusioned' is more accurate and felicitious 'tired of.'.
Further, Im not sure what 'a homosexual' is. As a noun its is too vague whilst 'homosexuality' is a direct and accurate description.
TIRED OF...2
As a fact, he had three children which clearly places him outside of the category of 'homosexual'. Thus I belive there were rumours of his 'homosexuality'. which is far more accurate
And further the phrase 'tired of.' at the end of a sentence is ugly: 'grown disillusoned' is, as Ive stated before, more accurate and better language.
:*If you're not sure what a homosexual is, I suggest you get out more.
:*Oscar Wilde was married with children too. There is no necessary contradiction.
:*In any case, the article refers to the content of the rumours, not the facts. I have no idea if McMahon was homosexual. I do know that he was widely rumoured to be, and that's what the article says.
:*My main problem with your edits, however, is that that they are nearly always mis-spelled and ungrammatical, and add little of value. I suggest that you find a topic in which you have some expertise in and write about it, and leave other articles alone. Adam 06:08, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Moreover, Eric, the effect of your edits is to completely change the sentence meaning. By writing "his homosexuality" you are implying that he was, without doubt, homosexual. This was never substantiated. And I suggest you read the last sentence of the last paragraph properly, too.--Cyberjunkie | Talk 06:15, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I might add, however, that I am not opposed to changing "a government the electorate had grown tired of" to "a government the electorate had grown/become disillusioned (or some synonym) with".
"Disillusioned" is a dreadful journalist's cliche, and implies that the electorate was previously in a state of illusion, which is an opinion for which no evidence has been produced. The fact is that in 1972 the electorate was simply tired of the Liberals, and I used that phrase quite deliberately. Adam 06:38, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

text: Then I relent. I am not fond of the word "disillusioned", but I did, to an extent, agree that "tired of" sounded infelicitous. Now I fear I've added fuel to the flame. Sorry, --Cyberjunkie | Talk 06:43, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

text: I support a revert.--Cyberjunkie | Talk 12:15, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Eric's edits

message: The following ancedote is somewhat relevant to the discussion of McMahon's sexuality. 
From The Bulletin magazine, 09/07/2005
The dishonorable member
By Tony Wright
"Billy McMahon was much given to nakedness, too: former senior public servants recall McMahon when PM in the early 1970s would rove the men’s dressing rooms at the old squash courts in Manuka. Wearing not a stitch, he was in the habit of approaching other men and virtually demanding they engage in long, often meaningless conversations. He seemed not to know the meaning of private space, according to one who always felt there was a peculiar nature to the approaches. The only newspaper report was a picture of McMahon with a black eye, which he said occurred in a game when he was hit by an opponent’s racquet." 
This is not the first time I've read stories of his behaviour at the courts. According to one old journo he used to hang back until most people were gone and then lurk round.
I will continue to revert vulgar gossip about dead people from disreputable rags like the (current) Bulletin. The article says all that needs to be said about the political relevance of McMahon's personal life. Adam 12:05, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Rumours again

message: It's important to note that while McMahon had "differences" with others over protectionism he was not a tarrif buster like Whitlam etc. PMA 11:40, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  McMahon and free trade 

message: We say McMahon was "haunted" by rumours about his sexuality.  What exactly does this mean, and what is the source for this?  I think the relevant fact is that there were rumours; whether he was personally haunted by them is not for a POV-free zone like Wikipedia to say.
On a slightly related matter, the late David Widdup campaigned against McMahon in Lowe in 1972 (I think).  His slogan was "Vote for the acknowledged homosexual candidate!".   JackofOz 13:21, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "haunted by rumours..." is, I think, just a figure of speech, in the sense that the rumours every now and then surfaced and (perhaps) caused him political damage. I agree it would be good if it was reworded. Rocksong 12:32, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Gay haunting

message: This article says McMahon challenged Gorton for the leadership in 1969 but both John Gorton and David Fairbairn say that it was Fairbarin who challenged whilst McEwan was still maintaining a veto on McMahon. Which is correct? Timrollpickering (talk) 13:01, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Apparently both: "A Nation at War" by P.G.Edwards and See John Anderson's speech here in Hansard Peter Ballard (talk) 01:23, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  1969 leadership challenge? 

message: I can't seem to locate where discussion took place, but it was agreed that the image of what he looked like at the time was a better fit than a clearer image 20 years prior to. I'm happy for either to occur so long as both images remain, and the choice is agreed upon. Timeshift (talk) 05:33, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Main McMahon image 

message: The following footnote, directly referenced to, perhaps, the most powerful newspaper in Australia at the time, has been removed on the basis that it is not "encyclopaedic". Given that his "perceived" homosexuality was a constant matter of public interest -- regardless of whether they were unsubstantiated "rumours" or unsubstantiated facts -- it is important that this matter appears in the Wiki; because it accurately reflects the mood of the times. The crass stupidity of McMahon agreeing to this photograph is precisely why, from then on, Sonia took such a controlling interest over every one of his photoshoots, such as the time that they attempted to photographed his "bald spot" in a swimming pool. The excised passage reads as follows:
::In a satirical masterstroke, to the considerable amusement of his many detractors, on the day following his defeat of John Gorton, the front page of the Melbourne newspaper The Age had a photograph of the diminutive and widely-perceived-as-homosexual McMahon — who was often referred to pejoratively as "Pixie McMahon" ("Pixie" because "he has fairies at the bottom of his garden") — impishly perched upon a rock next to a water fountain at the bottom of his garden. The pixie at the bottom of this Canberra garden just happens to be the new Prime Minister, The Age, (Friday, 12 March, 1971), p.1.
I can see no reason for this pro-active, pro-McMahon censorship has any place in the Wiki.149.171.155.143 (talk) 05:09, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Before you go accusing me of pro-McMahon bias, perhaps I should mention that actually I consider him one of Australia's worst Prime Ministers. That doesn't stop this proposed passage being one of the worst cases of undue weight I've seen in a while. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of news reports, and any News Ltd-style scandalmongering has no place in a serious encyclopaedia. Frickeg (talk) 05:46, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unencyclopaedic? 

message: It is questionable whether this is true.  Julia Gillard could lay claim to the title. She remained in office after the 2010 election but her party won less seats than the coalition so did she really win the election?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chukk55 (talk • contribs) 00:13, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Well as Gillard has been the PM now for more than 2 years,   it is not unreasonable to say that she "won" the 2010 election.  And this is the article about William McMahon  and not the place for nitpicking about the details of the 2010 election.Eregli bob (talk) 06:46, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

text: That's the technical view.  But if we're happy to say that Hawke and Howard each won 4 elections, then we have to accept that Gillard has won one so far.  She might not have won as many seats as the coalition, but at the end of the day she won the main prize, the premiership.  In no sense could we say that Abbott won the election; he won most seats, that's all.  The point is that McMahon won nil elections, as his government was defeated at his one and only attempt with him as leader. --  Jack of Oz [Talk] 09:25, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Labor did win as many seats as the four conservative coalition parties - 72 each. Timeshift (talk) 22:15, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  OK; it's been a shifting carpet.  But my point remains; just because it's a hung parliament and Gillard relies on the support of independents, does not mean she didn't win the election.  --  Jack of Oz [Talk] 22:19, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Correct in the point you're trying to make, but i'll remain in semantics - PMs don't "win" elections despite the popular misconception :P Timeshift (talk) 22:27, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Australia's Longest Serving Prime Minister Never To Have Won An Election?

message: The one captioned "McMahon while visiting the White House in 1971" has his breast pocket handkerchief on his right (our left).  They're always on the wearer's left, afaik.  --  Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 22:54, 25 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Image reversed

message: Unfortunately large swathes of this article appear to have been copied directly (word for word) from the ADB entry. The sections "Under Menzies" and "Under Holt" seem to be almost 100% copyvio. I'll try to go through and rephrase/rewrite the problem sections at some point in future, but until then I've placed a tag. Ivar the Boneful (talk) 19:04, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyright violation