Talk:Bronze Soldier of Tallinn/Archive 6

message: I'm not sure how to interpret this sentence:
Russian-speaking population largely views Estonia's annexation into USSR as a legitimate process; an official view of the Russian Federation.
What does 'an official view' mean here (shouldn't it be the official view)? Is it a perception of Russia's official view by a large part of the Russian-speaking Estonian residents, or the writer meant to say that Russia has indeed expressed this officially? If the latter, please provide a reference. --Mzabaluev 18:29, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Russia took over Soviet interpretation of history, that's all. Governments don't tend to pubish their interpretations of history in press releases, but fairly good view on what's 'official' can be gained from history textbooks used in public schools.  Edgar Vares-Barbarus 18:47, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Source is here: Комментарий Департамента информации и печати МИД России в связи с высказываниями ряда европейских политиков относительно "оккупации" стран Балтии Советским Союзом и необходимости осуждения этого со стороны России. I tried to put this to the article, but this vandal from Moscow removed this. Interesting, that no administrators' actions still.80.235.55.122 19:20, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As the page is semi-protected now, maybe somebody will replace  tag inserted by Mzabaluev with this reference? Thanks.80.235.55.122 19:42, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That seems so have been done already. But, is there any statistical evidence for the prior claim that "Russian-speaking population largely views Estonia's annexation into USSR as a legitimate process"? Camptown 20:43, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Such evidence would be in form of attitude surveys.  These have certainly been conducted on this topic; I have seen them in the news. Can't find a particular source right now, though. Digwuren 06:31, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

text: BTW are there any pressing reasons for you not to register an account? We are trying to give occasional visitors an opportunity to easily fix typos, errors, etc. but community participation including editorial conflicts over controversial articles are much easier throw an established account. Alex Bakharev 00:55, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Background: Russian official view on annexation? 

message: Hi. I'm here because of a request on WP:3O. Since the request was made on the 2nd, there appears to have been heavy editing and discussion, and I'm not sure the request is relevant anymore. If it is, please re-add it, being careful to follow instructions about keeping it neutral and pointing at a particular talk page section. It's also worth considering other options for dispute resolution. Thanks, William Pietri 02:17, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Third opinion 

message: Generally one should not read too much into edit summaries. They do not have the same authority as edits in talk pages or articles. Also, they are limited to 200 characters, so the true meaning may not fit into the space.
Regarding this edit summary: One should note it was part of a edit war with a pro-Russian editor. The whole exchange is repeated below:
#renamed section to - →Protest and riots - + photos: Tiblad Tõnismäel 26.04.2007
#what a link with RACIST nickname for non-estonians is doing here?!
#restored link. 1) Excellent set of photograps documents peaceful nature of protest. 2) Caveat clearly states out derogatory nature of page title
#I strongly disagree. It harasses non-estonian readers
#Yes - but it also proves that Estonians are racists, if not Nazis.
#Only few estonians are racists. We shouldn't follow this behavior. Be polite, please!
##ok?
#moved note to refs
Now that I have more than 200 characters available, I will rephrase the comment:
* You User:Beatles Fab Four, as an pro-Russian editor, should forget the insult and support this formulation, as it gives support to the Russian view that many Estonians are racists, even giving credibility the the depiction of Estonians as born again Nazis.
-- Petri Krohn 04:06, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, your formulation slanders the majority of good Estonians who don't hold the views of a small extremist minority. Should we characterise all Russians by the few Russian neo-Nazi skinheads we occasionally see in the media? Martintg 06:55, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I was clearly stupid to expect Petri Krohn to realize his mistake and appologise. But I guess that as all Estonians must be racists then I do not deserve appologise in his view. And now Petri Krohn has openly admitted  that he is pushing anti-Estonian POV and is calling other Russians to follow his lead.--Staberinde 07:29, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for the find.  It answers a few things that have been puzzling me. Digwuren 18:09, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

text: No, I do not demand an appology, just I thought it would be good way to calm down situation and show some respect. And I personally will not start RfC(although someone else may). Also I do not think that we need to continue discussing it here at the moment, but I seriously doubt that these remarks will be forgotten. Btw, I do not blame Russian-speaking community, stupididy has never recognized ethnic borders.--Staberinde 07:57, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit summary 

message: Yes, I did add an image of the grave site to this talk page, to the sections discussing the exact location of the graves and the bus stop. A also took the picture and uploaded it to Wikimedia Commons.
As to the comment/image caption. It has been speculated that this conflict may cause an new Cold War between Russia and the West. One must ask whether the Estonian government was aware of the consequences of its actions. It seems to me that they were aware, and acted partly as a provocation. In the parliamentary elections this was one on their themes, mayby even the deciding factor in the outcome. If this controversy ever leads to war, hot or cold, I hold the Estonian government responsible. -- Petri Krohn 05:12, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image 

message: The Occupation of Baltic states article should be linked and maybe a part of discussion moved there. Xx236 08:30, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Stop this bullshit. The only reason that the baltics hate USSR, is because they are self-eated with hate. They baltic people feel little, useless. Everything that the baltic countries now have is thanks to the Soviet Unian. Technology, ruads, everything, and that makes them hate soviets even more. In their everyday life they see that all that they have, was made by the Soviets, and that makes them feel small, and that makes them hate the Soviets. M.V.E.i. 17:17, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Stop this [CENSORED]. We had "ruads", technology... strong economy and high living standards before Soviets occupied Baltic States. We "hate" Soviet Union, because they killed tens of thousands - closer to two hundred thousand, if you include all three countries - civilians in Baltics, set our life back for decades (we gained independence on 1991, we might reach our living standards relatively comparable to pre-WWII (similar to Denmark, better then Finland) in another twenty years, perhaps. And most of all, you took from us our independent countries and freedom for fifty years. Now, why exactly were we supposed to love the monster called Soviet Union? DLX 17:30, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No you didn't. I read many history books, by many writers, from different countries. One thing is shure: The Baltic tribes were always considered the most primitive among Europe. You forgot how your Baltic union The Lithuanian Kingdom in the middle ages started a war against Russians? You started it, so relax. The Russians were to soft ith you, you deserved more. Besides, USSR never killed Baltic people (Except at World War 2, but that were Baltic Nazis killed, there not considered people). How excacly did we take your freedom?? We gave you technology, everything. Even your cinema, thought it sucked, always got money from the USSR in hope you will do somthing with it. Don't love it, just stop expressing your "little-guy-sindrome". It's disscusting. M.V.E.i. 19:05, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Certainly not true. In the early 1900's the literacy rate of Estonians was over 96 percent. Elsewhere in Europe other countries lagged behind: Spain-44 percent, Austria-hungary-77 percent and France-83 percent. . Literacy in Russia was even worse, according to the 1897 census, 24 percent of Russia's population were literate  . Martintg 00:35, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Occupation of Baltic states]]