Talk:Sonic CD

message: i think i'll add a sub-gameplay about creepy gaming. Jct400thz (talk) 18:46, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Please do not, unless you find that reliable sources are reporting on it. I highly doubt that they are... Sergecross73 msg me  18:54, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  What about the Creepyness? 

message: Why not include the sound test code and the secret stuff you can access from it?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.64.96.46 (talk) 02:13, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Because Wikipedia is not a game guide. Sergecross73 msg me 03:02, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sound Test? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Could someone update the screenshot? It seems weird to have a screenshot that was taken in an emulator; it would be better to put in a picture from the 2011 version. (TheJoebro64 (talk) 23:47, 19 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: It would be better having a screenshot of the original Sega CD version, in my opinion. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 22:49, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, ideally, this. Sergecross73 msg me 01:40, 22 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course, the 2011 game can have its own screenshot too, but it shouldn't be the only/primary gameplay screenshot. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 08:02, 22 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't personally disagree, but some people are so hardcore into all the NFCC image policy stuff, that they may argue and image of both may not be necessary. The improvements were largely just minor "better resolution, wide screen support" type stuff right? We're not talking full-on Sonic & Knuckles to Sonic Generations remake type changes. Sergecross73 msg me 16:11, 22 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: True, nothing texture or UI-wise was changed in the remaster, if I remember correctly. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 10:48, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Screenshot update 

message: Hey, should we change the cover art from the EU instruction manual to the US box art? I feel it represents the game better, considering that it's the actual cover. TheJoebro64 talk 13:55, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: If the fact it's the instruction manual that's causing it to fail to represent the game, then just let me know and I'll scan the European cover for the article, no problem. Can't see why we need to change to the NA artwork though, given that WP:VGBOX states "If a suitable English-language cover art already exists on the subject page, then do not waste time replacing it with a different version." - X201 (talk) 13:47, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: It doesn't matter to me what region the cover is from; I just suggested the US one because it's already on Wikipedia. TheJoebro64 talk 06:10, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I, for the record, support the move. Either cover art should be used rather than a manual cover. For more recognizable. Sergecross73 msg me 22:28, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: We should replace it with the same cover then, not the NA one. - X201 (talk) 14:53, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: If you wanted to do that, you should have done it 2 months ago, when this first came up. Either is fine, but JoeBro was the only one to take any action on this... Sergecross73 msg me 15:45, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Box art 

message: Hey, I'm just starting a conversation to work on improving this page. Some observations:
#The gameplay and legacy sections are mostly unsourced (although they appear to be correct, from what I can recall). Also, the development and reception sections are in need of serious expansion/repair.
#The Russian version of the article (which is a featured article) has a lot of material and information that could be used to expand this page. Some of it is sourced at places we wouldn't normally consider reliable (for example, they used an interview with Spencer Nielsen from Sega-16), but we could give it a try.
#On sources, this article probably needs a few more. Sonic Retro's got all these old magazines which, from my understanding, can be used as sources.
#Also, Christian Whitehead has revealed some interesting facts and material concerning the game's development on the Retro forums. My understanding is these are also OK to use as a source.
#Sega published a "developer's journal" on the game's development on YouTube a little while back. Let's see if we can find anything useful from that video.
#Let's also try to find some info on R2, that stage that was never in the final game (there's concept art for it in the above mentioned video).
Thanks, ~ TheJoebro64 (talk) 23:09, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going to make a start on the reception section and work my way up, but this will involve nuking the section in question and starting over so that I know what's being sourced etc. JAGUAR  20:01, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: It looks like most of JoeBro's recent improvements have been elsewhere in the article, and there's not a ton of stuff in the reception section now, so I see no issue with that. Besides, the old version will always be in the article history (or here) if it need to be referenced or re-added later. Sergecross73 msg me 20:05, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notes for improvement 

message: *http://info.sonicretro.org/Preview_-_Sonic_the_Hedgehog_CD_(Megaforce,_September_1993)
~ TheJoebro64 (talk) 10:15, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source for gameplay 

message: Seeing how things keep going, I can only assume this will lead to more arguing and reverting, so I'm starting another discussion. I made this revert because its entirely trivial to note these sorts of details. Voice acting an extremely small and unimportant part of the game - most examples don't even include more than a single word or two being spoken.A few examples don't even contain words at all, like noting things like the first time a character "laughs". Completely trivial. Sergecross73 msg me 15:34, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  First title to include voice acting 

message: This has been here for several months, but keeps getting removed now. I don't really see why; Yuji Naka brought it up in an interview, and Christian Whitehead has talked about it a lot. The Russian version of Sonic CD is a featured article, and it mentions it, too. It may not be as big as Hidden Palace, but it's still a good piece of info on the game's development. Shouldn't it be worth at least mentioning? ~ TheJoebro64 (talk) 23:42, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: It was actually going to be in the remaster as "Desert Dazzle", but that was scrapped too. Source: http://toucharcade.com/2014/05/06/sonic-2-hidden-palace-zone-playable-prototype/ ~ TheJoebro64 (talk) 12:27, 23 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm fine with a mention of it, but it needs to be trimmed back. Probably kept more to what the third party RS's are saying (TouchArcade,GameSpy), not the Sega Retro forum post stuff... Sergecross73 msg me 12:42, 23 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Alright, that's what I'm going to rework it as. ~ TheJoebro64 (talk) 13:07, 23 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: If there were extensive information about some significant cut content, it would be worth mentioning. Saying "oh and they cut something" is trivial. Popcornduff (talk) 10:11, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: As I understand it, the cut desert level was originally planned for Sonic 2, though Whitehead planned on adding the thematically similar "Desert Dazzle" to the Sonic CD remaster. Sega's Aaron Webber has confirmed (19:42 to 20:26) that "Desert Dazzle" in turn inspired Sonic Manias "Mirage Saloon," which may well be deserving of mention.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 02:25, 25 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice find, I think that's worth mentioning in the 2011 version section. Regarding R2, I think it's worth mentioning in more detail because right now what is there is trivial. The way it was written before though was crufty, so it needs improvement! I think The Taxman's posts (and his posts only) are reliable considering his involvement with the game. In this post, we can gather is that the Toei animations were done early in development while work on R2 was still being done. This does not confirm when the level was cut. From post 2, we can gather that the rainbow sketch (among others) shown in this Sega video is of R2. R2 is also discussed in this interview on SRZ which I think is safe to use, but others may not think so. We cannot conclude from any source why the level was cut, although it's hinted in SRZ interview because the level designer didn't do a good job. How about this:
Each level in Sonic CD was coded and debugged by a single engineer. The engineers worked independently and in parallel, with lead engineer Junetsu Kakuta managing the overall framework to bring the levels together; this same process was used in Sonic the Hedgehog (1991). One of the levels being developed for Sonic CD, often referred to as "R2", was not used in the final product. (Show rainbow waterfall sketch here) Some remnants of the level can still be found in the game's files, and the stage is featured in the ending FMV sequence. TarkusAB 15:07, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

text: As mentioned above, I'm one of the people in favor of mentioning R2 to some capacity, but this proposal relies far too heavily on "Randomsonicnet.org" and "Sonic Retro's forum posts" as sources. We should be sticking to what third party reliable sources covered on the subject. Sergecross73 msg me 15:28, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: The "Desert Dazzle" discussed in the Touch Arcade link above has nothing to do with R2. That was a proposed level for 2011 Sonic CD, which is based on Dust Hill from Sonic 2. The GameSpy link doesn't shed any light at all beyond "yea there was stuff, we cut some of it out". If we are sticking with this two sources, then maybe what's written in the article now is as good as we're gonna get. TarkusAB 16:01, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I still don't see the importance in this. "Fans found unused content in the files, and Naka said it was not completed due to time constraints" can be said for literally every game ever released. This type of info is better suited for the Sonic/Sega wikis, not here. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 18:36, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, but the majority of votes are still in favor of a mention. ~ TheJoebro64 (talk) 18:53, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Discussions are still on-going, and there's no real consensus on how yet. Stop trying to force it in until we have figured out a way to move forward. Sergecross73 msg me 18:54, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I wasn't trying to "force it in", I still think this needs to be improved. What TarkusAB has proposed is good and I'd support it, but I've got some reservations over its reliance on primary sources, which might lead to edit warring over possible abuse of these. ~ TheJoebro64 (talk) 18:57, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Just about everyone has some reservations about how it should be included. So it shouldn't be yet. The proper approach isn't "Well I don't know how, so I'm just going for it however I want." Boldness isn't encouraged when we're well into a WP:BRD cycle. As I've told you before, you need to work through specific proposals on the talk page, rather than through article reverts. Sergecross73 msg me 19:08, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

text: I'd hesitantly support Tarkus' proposal to add to the article. Simply stating the most generic thing possible, I.E. "some stuff got cut because of time constraints", isn't helpful to anybody. Ask yourself what was the important of the level that got cut, and how is that any different from any other game? ~ Dissident93 (talk) 19:03, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Tarkus's proposal uses things like https://randomsonicnet.org/srz/index.php?page=interviews/jt.htm as a source though. There's no way stuff like that meets the Wikipedia RS standard. Sergecross73 msg me 19:09, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: That's an interview; I'm not exactly sure how interviews go when it comes to the source. Sega-16 has done interviews with Sega presidents and Spencer Nilsen, and I'm not sure if those can be used since Sega-16 isn't considered reliable. ~ TheJoebro64 (talk) 19:12, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I understand the hesitation with using the source, and I feel the same way. Per WP:INTERVIEW: "As long as we can be reasonably certain that the material was written by them, then the Wikipedia policy on primary sources applies. Such material can be used, but needs to be used with care, and only to cite facts that can be verified from the source itself." So I think what it comes down to is...are we reasonably certain that the material was written by them and not edited or tweaked by the interviewer? TarkusAB 19:18, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

text:  I see that. But its still an otherwise unpublished interview, verified only by an obscure Sonic fansite who claims to be copy/pasting emails onto their website. I'm actually rather surprised  is even open to it. He, like I, opposes it on the ground that it's more appropriate on the Sonic fansite/wikis, and this is literally an example of content that can only be sourced to a Sonic fansite. Sergecross73 msg me 19:19, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I still don't fully support it. Outside of the Naka interview, which just has a generic statement about the level, the sources are dubious at best. Could  work better? But even then, it just seems too generic to really offer anything helpful. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 19:23, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no objections to that statement. We do have an RS saying that one of the assets was a level at least, right? I'd add that too, if possible. But your statement at least gives a message of what (unused asset/features/levels) and a reason for it (time constraints), so it's not quite as vague/pointless as some "Stuff was cut" statements prior used. Sergecross73 msg me 19:30, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  R2 

message: OK, let's stop arguing over what to add to the page and start working on some improvements. I can see this going to GA, but we're going to need to make some major changes (the article only barely passes B-class). First and foremost, the "reception" section is woefully (and quite embarrassingly) incomplete - I've reached out for help on the main WikiProject Video Games talk page, but my request saw no responses. Second, we might need to see if we can find more development info to expand. Third, the "gameplay" section needs sourcing; we might want to look for scans of the manual and other sources.
Hope this gets us started! ~ TheJoebro64 (talk) 22:51, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I added the refideas template to the top so people can compile sources. I have a copy of The History of Sonic the Hedgehog which has some developer interviews and some info on Sonic CD. Don't know if only the interviews are reliable or the other pieces are OK. TarkusAB 01:02, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  Can you help with the reception section? I'm really bad at paraphrasing and deciding what's best to include. ~ TheJoebro64 (talk) 11:30, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Improving 

message: I'm unsure this game was truly developed by "Sonic Team" as the source says. There are no references to Sonic Team anywhere in the game or its documentation. The development section here talks about how the Sonic 2 team concurrently worked separately in the USA, and I am having a hard time accepting that both the USA and Japanese teams are "Sonic Team", but this could be the case. I went to the Sonic Team website for some clarity but the earliest game they list is Nights into Dreams. Maybe I'm looking to far into this, but after learning that Sonic Team was not involved with Knuckles' Chaotix and that some of the folks who worked on CD worked on Chaotix, I am being cautious of people just throwing Sonic Team up for every Sonic game. TarkusABtalk 12:39, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I can understand how this is disputed. Sonic Retro lists them as the game's developers, but I'll have to dig around since it's not actually stated in-game. I'm pretty sure the Japanese team is Sonic Team, isn't it? The American one is STI, from my understanding. ~ TheJoebro64 (talk) 14:58, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: If I remember right, I thought that the name "Sonic Team" was a name assigned to the dev team a little after the fact. Like, it was that same team all along, but they weren't actually publicly named "Sonic Team" until like Sonic & Knuckles or Adventure or something. I could be wrong, but I feel like some of the early Genesis games didn't technically have the "Sonic Team" label on them, even thought they did in fact develop them. Sergecross73 msg me 15:26, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: As Serge says, you're not going to see the "Sonic Team" logo on any game prior to Nights (that's also why Nights is the first game listed on Sonic Team's website).TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 17:33, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, Sonic 1's opening says "Sonic Team Presents" right after the Sega logo, so they were known by that name from the very start, unless this was retroactively added in later prints? Now that being said, the lead staff of Sonic CD all have clear involvements with other Sonic Team productions, such as Naoto Ohshima, Naofumi Hataya, and Kazuyuki Hoshino. The game was fully developed in-house by Sega staff, and I think Sonic Team, as a general title, can be used for some games despite not being individually credited as a separate studio. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 18:46, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: While it's a fan-run wiki, and obviously not an Wikipedia approved RS, http://segaretro.org/Sonic_Team is accurate to what I've read about Sonic Team in the past, and goes along with what myself and TheTimesAreAChanging are saying. (Dissident too, actually.) They weren't consistently branded as "Sonic Team" consistently until they moved on to making Nights Into Dreams. Sergecross73 msg me 19:14, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the input fam. I feel comfortable removing the dubious tag for now. For those interested in more discussion like this, I edited Knuckles' Chaotix very recently to explicitly state it wasn't developed by Sonic Team despite it listing Sonic Team for years. I made this change because some Sonic Team mainstays saying it was done by another internal development team at Sega. However, Kazuyuki Hoshino did design the characters and was involved at the beginning of development, and Ohshima is credited for character design although that may just be for Knuckles. Would appreciate input if folks have concerns regarding that. TarkusABtalk 00:37, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: As someone who took a deep interest in Sega for a number of years, I was never under the impression (and cannot recall knowing anyone that was under the impression) that Chaotix was developed by Sonic Team proper. Then again, my gut feelings aren't always reliable (Serge recently corrected me on the extent of Sonic Team's involvement with Sonic 3D Blast). In any case, I'm more interested in Ristar—The Gaming Historian argues that Sonic Team should not be credited as the developer, citing an Electronic Gaming Monthly interview in which a Sega  employee directly states that "No, [Ristar] wasn't designed by the same development team [as the Sonic games]." While it is also undeniable that a number of former or future Sonic Team staff contributed to the project, I think Serge's initial skepticism on that point was probably justified, and that Wikipedia's current sources are likely parroting confused citogenesis.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 06:15, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: But doesn't the lead staff say otherwise? Even if Ristar wasn't officially made by Sonic Team, judging by the staff, they were clearly in close association with them, as many of them also worked on Sonic CD and Nights, with the latter being officially a Sonic Team production. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 18:25, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I've always been in favor of using Sonic Team and the developer of Ristar - mainly for the reasons mentioned here - it was made by Sonic Team staff members in an era before they were consistently using the Sonic Team label. That, and how frequently RS's call them the developer. Sergecross73 msg me 18:47, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, you haven't, not that it matters—I just have a really long memory. If the Electronic Gaming Monthly interview cited above is accepted at face value, then retroactively attributing Ristar to Sonic Team is a bit like retroactively attributing United Game Artists's output to Sonic Team on the grounds that UGA was later merged into Sonic Team.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 08:49, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow, I didn't even remember that! Man, good memory. Apologies for that broad statement then - it just appears you remember my Wiki-life better than me. So yeah, looking back, that dif is from Feb 2011, and I did massive rewrites to the article in November 2011 and April 2013. Looking through the page history, it looks like I must have changed my stance on it after all the source hunting I did for it during the rewrites. Sergecross73 msg me 12:44, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

text: Ohshima didn't design Knuckles, btw. Popcornduff (talk) 06:19, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I think that was Takashi Yuda, known for his work at Sonic Team (Sonic 3), United Game Artists (Space Channel 5), and then Sonic Team again (Sonic Riders), though others probably contributed to the final design we know today.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 06:25, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sonic Team 

message: The fact that this is the first game in the series to be released in CD is probably worth mentioning. I mean, because CDs have much more storage capacity than cartridges, this allows games to be more sophisticated which is a considerable case for Sonic CD. Therefore, this is a definitive thing. 2605:E000:2E54:8F0:345A:E1E2:DF72:DFCA (talk) 17:07, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: It's very trivial, and outside of the short FMV videos, it didn't do anything special. Sergecross73 msg me 17:23, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  The First CD Game In Series 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I'm still confused by the claim of how many copies were sold. The lead says "It is the best-selling Sega CD game, with over one million copies sold by 2015"; the 2015 date implies the figure includes ports, because how many Sega CD copies have been sold in the last 20 years? But it's followed by a hidden note: "This is the Sega CD alone." How is this possible? I can't find any easy way to check the sources cited for this claim in the body. Popcornduff (talk) 05:20, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I also would like to see the Guinness World Records 2016: Gamer's Edition source myself, which is what is claiming this apparently. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 07:19, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The source is here. The book was published in 2015. JOEBRO64 11:45, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems pretty clear that they're just talking about the Sega CD version then - the "as of 2015" was meant for all of the Sonic sales figures listed in that little paragraph about sales. We could probably trim that part out of our prose. Yes, its "as of 2015", but its also probably "as of 1997" too. All we really need to indicated is that it's in regards to the Sega CD's lifespan. Sergecross73 msg me 13:35, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep, the point of confusion here is "as of 2015". New Sega CD copies aren't being sold so mentioning the "as of" here is misleading. I just removed that. Popcornduff (talk) 06:40, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  How many copies sold? 

message: * https://www.eurogamer.net/amp/digitalfoundry-2018-revisiting-sonic-cd-retro?__twitter_impression=true Sergecross73 msg me 12:57, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  2018 retrospective about development, dev teams  

message: Every other Sonic game on Genesis (Sonic 1, 2, 3 & Knuckles) have redirect pages when you type the names of zones in the game, but this article doesn't have any? Would it be OK if I created redirect pages?
The pages would be:
Palmtree Panic Zone
Collision Chaos Zone
Tidal Tempest Zone
Quartz Quadrant Zone
Wacky Workbench Zone
Stardust Speedway Zone
Metallic Madness Zone
Thanks!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by CreeperDudeBro (talk • contribs) 22:02, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Redirect pages? 

message: There is a Sonic CD demo officially hosted by Sega for Windows 95. The current Sonic CD site doesn't seem to have it http://web.archive.org/web/19970327230315/http://www.sega.com/segapc/downloads/games/soniccd.html
Not sure if this would be a useful EL
WhisperToMe (talk) 23:29, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sonic CD demo? 

message: I think it is so daring put Sonic CD in the determinate cronologycal position where it is on the plot, being that Sega never really confirm where's Sonic CD happens. Because there are many sides that think Sonic CD goes before Sonic 2, after Sonic 2 or after Sonic and Knuckles. So, it is more like a subjective opinion that anything put Sonic CD in a fixed cronologycal position. I think the best would be to skip a supposed chronological position to avoid fights. The corrector 45K (talk) 01:48, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: The claim that it goes in between Sonic 1 and 2 comes directly from one of the developers, and is reliably sourced. JOEBRO64 02:13, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

text: The current source is an actual developer of the game, which, in my opinion, trumps what a brand manager decades later says. Sergecross73 msg me
Yamaguchi, he barely had participation in Sonic 2 and Sonic CD, he did not even have participation in the story, he only designed the graphics of the games. He wasn't even in charge of creating the design of Tails, he just won an internal company competition. I don't even work on the 8-bit Sonic 2, which would be the first real appearance of Tails. however, Yamaguchi carried so little weight that Sega put the Tails name against his will.
And in many trailers of the 2011 of Sonic CD explicitily says that Sonic CD is a direct prequel of Sonic 4, here: youtu.be/nHk6jOQLFBA "Continue the adventure with Sonic 4 avalaible now" youtu.be/24tjOBMEFCs "See where Sonic 4 began"  The corrector 45K (talk) 04:38, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

text: To just fan the flames for a sec... I do wonder if this info is worth including at all. The Sonic CD plot has no connection to other games; it doesn't seem to really make any difference to anything except Sonic nerds arguing about timelines; and doesn't feel like it's important for understanding the subject. That, plus the fact that we have sources (admittedly of different weights) that disagree, makes me wonder if we should just omit it. Popcornfud (talk) 11:11, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: 100% agree, why does a game like this even need a plot summary? It's not story/narrative-driven and you could probably condense the entire section into two small sentences if it has to remain at all. This just feels like a forced necessity because other game articles have them. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 23:13, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I generally shy away from this sort of content too, but the points of contention are pretty minor - short sentences or sentence fragments even. I don’t really think it crosses the threshold of fancruft at this point. And I believe it passes it’s GA in this state too. Sergecross73 msg me 01:07, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not just an argument about fancruft, though. It's about whether it really aids the article, and besides the sources disagree. To me it doesn't make a difference if it's just a couple of short sentences or an entire section - it either helps the article or doesn't. Popcornfud (talk) 10:30, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I was talking more about my own philosophy. I’ve spent a decade plus now removing some of the insane fancruft plot stuff. "Sonic runs five steps, and turns to Tails and smiles. Tails gives him the thumbs up. Knuckles arrives on scene. He flexed at Sonic. Sonic frowns. Tails tenses up. A fight ensues, with Sonic throwing the first punch, a right hook that hits Knuckles stomach” - when “Sonic and Tails encounter Knuckles for a fight" is plenty sufficient. But that’s what I’m saying - this is more like the latter. A brief statement on the premise of the entire premise of the game is worth mentioning. Could be reworked into the dev section if we truly can’t reconcile which version is correct - briefly mentioning both commentaries on it. Sergecross73 msg me 16:33, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Definitely agreed that the basic story premise of the game - Sonic goes to Little Planet to rescue Amy from Metal Sonic and Eggman - should be covered. We could probably condense that to one or two sentences and put it in the gameplay section ("Players control Sonic, who must rescue Amy Rose..." etc). Popcornfud (talk) 19:00, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

text: Do not revert again until there is a consensus to move forward with your edits. You’ve already broken WP:3RR. If I wasn’t involved in this dispute, I’d block you from editing. If Ann other admin catches you, they still could. Cut it out and focus on the discussion. Sergecross73 msg me 01:00, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

text: Sega has never contradicted the remark. It came directly from one of the developers. JOEBRO64 17:01, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: The reference for that claim is a guidebook written by Corey Sandler for a third-party publisher. That is not one of the developers.Stephen C Wells (talk) 17:04, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cronologycal position 

message: At what point does it become acceptable to remove that line about the chronology from the plot description? Because by my count, there are more people who think it should be removed than think it should be kept. The reference cited in the actual section is non-canon, and the source of the original claim given in the development section is too ambiguous to justify asserting the statement as fact. I think the line should be removed. Stephen C Wells (talk) 22:57, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I support deleting it - it's not at all important and basically changes nothing. Popcornfud (talk) 23:06, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removing Chronology from Plot 

message: A lot of Sonic Games seem to have a scrapped zone, and Sonic CD is no exception. As well as R2, Another zone has been found. This zone, known as Desert Dazzle, According to Whitehead, was cut so that the game didn't stray too far from its original form. However, an image of it is still featured in-game. The zone was re-incarnated in the 2011 mobile remake of Sonic CD. It was also the inspiration for Mirage Saloon Zone for Sonic Mania. SonicTails4664 (talk) 16:19, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't tell if you're intending to add this to the article, or if you're just musing your random thoughts like you often do on talk pages (even if you're not supposed to) but in order for any if that to be added to the article, you need a reliable source that verifies it. Sergecross73 msg me 18:12, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Desert Dazzle Zone 

message: An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect :Sonic boom cd and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 October 12#Sonic boom cd until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  Pizzaplayer219TalkContribs 12:33, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Sonic boom cd" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: I'm unable to verify all the claims in the Music section in the sources I can access, and there are some unreliable sources, such as Discogs, which fails WP:USERG. Popcornfud (talk) 16:01, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Music section needs work