Talk:Clubfoot

message: I think there should be a part somewhere in this article explaining this. Is it because the legs are shaped like a golf club?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.50.207.90 (talk) 08:01, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: What does club in club foot mean?

message: It would be interesting to know the history of surgery in this area, because historically, e.g. Lord Byron, there were people who suffered throughout their lives from this contdition. Matt Stan 12:57, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: General comment

message: Is it worth creating a separate page for this technique, or should a link just be provided to the quite detailed information in this article? Any comments would be welcome before I do anything. Dr Aaron 22:54, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it would be beneficial.  You can see information here (with the menu bar at the right) .  There's also an article about the method here .  --aishel 01:02, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ponseti method page 

message: Would it be possible to obtain a photo of an adult with a club foot? I don't really know what baby feet are supposed to look like. --UNHchabo 03:35, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photos 

message: In this article, it says "Josef Goebbels also had club foot, a fact which was obscured from the German public by censorship campaigns." - however on the page for Goebbels, it says "Although he has been frequently described as having a club foot, this was not the case."  Anyone know which is true? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.80.22.212 (talk) 06:59, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Goebbels 

message: This article has no consistency between the two, can someone find the correct (or most popular) method and standardize? Vicarious 04:28, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  clubfoot or club foot 

message: I was born with a club foot, but it wasn't corrected with either of the methods mentioned on this page.  Instead it was (over the course of several months) gently twisting it into the correct direction.--*Kat* 08:14, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Strange...my club foot wasn't corrected with either of the methods mentioned on this page 

message: "Anterior Tibial Tendon Transfer (needed in 20% of cases) - *where the tendon is moved from the toe to the third finger*" <-- this makes no sense anatomically, I think its moved to the calcaneus or other part of the foot..  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.145.126.100 (talk) 17:31, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Illogical passage... 

message: External links on Wikipedia are supposed to be "encyclopedic in nature" and useful to a worldwide audience.  Please read the external links policy (and perhaps the specific rules for medicine-related articles) before adding more external links.  
The following kinds of links are inappropriate:
*  Online discussion groups or chat forums
*  Personal webpages and blogs
*  Multiple links to the same website
*  Fundraising events or groups
*  Websites that are recruiting for clinical trials
*  Websites that are selling things (e.g., books or memberships)
I realize that some links are helpful to certain users, but they still do not comply with Wikipedia policy, and therefore must not be included in the article.  It might be appropriate for the regular editors of this page to carefully review ALL of the external links after reading the relevant policies.  WP:NOT:Wikipedia is not a collection of links, after all.  WhatamIdoing (talk) 07:04, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: External links

message: Someone has listed Peter Forsberg as having been born with clubfoot. While he has foot problems, they are not related to clubfoot.  See the following link: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/nhl/flyers/2006-05-10-forsberg_x.htm?POE=SPOISVA  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.238.3.174 (talk) 22:02, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Peter Forsberg 

message: There are significant grammatical and syntax errors on this page. So many that the article's accuracy and usefulness is questionable.
75.157.225.94 (talk) 00:17, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Club foot article grammar 

message: The article at present doesn't actually describe what a club foot is. Are there the same bones, but pointing the wrong way? Do the bones grow the wrong way, or are they that way from birth? Is it the bones at all, or something with the ligaments and tendons?  More information would be helpful. wanderingstan (talk) 07:11, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Better Description 

message: Extensive surgery of the soft tissue or bone is not usually necessary to treat clubfoot.  Hmmm. That may be true today, but certainly hasn't always been. I was born with TEV in 1960 and had numerous surgical interventions, from Achillotenotomy aged about 24 months through (at age 16) a triple arthrodesis (fusion of subtalar, calcaneocuboid, and talonavicular joints). Following that my foot was unrecognisable (it looked like a foot, rather than its previous twiested self) and I could buy shoes off-the-shelf for the first time in my life, so I'm not complaining. It's stood me in good stead since.
At age 12 I was offered the option of a partial amputation (removing, as I remember, the metatarsals and toes). Though I didn't take up the option this was not unknown among my peer group and a course of surgery was certainly not uncommon. Perhaps someone with knowledge of orthopædic surgery in the UK 40 years ago could comment. Obviously, any contributions I made to the article here would be OR! Tonywalton Talk 17:22, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Surgery used to be used, way back in the day 

message: Would it be within the scope of this article to add a couple paragraphs on club feet in other animals, specifically horses?  In horses, it's quite common.  Occurs due to a somewhat different process, I think (I'll have to do some research before adding anything) but I'd like to either create a new article or add on to this one.  Basically I don't want to create a new article/content fork if it isn't appropriate, but I'd also not want to add stuff to this article that's beyond its scope if it's confined to the human condition only.  Opinions?   Montanabw(talk) 18:56, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: No one complained, so I added a couple of paragraphs and tagged the article for WPEQ.  If anyone feels this material is beyond the scope and wants to move it to a new article on clubfeet in non-humans, let me know.  I don't have the intent to expand the section much at present, but maybe later.  Eventually we may want to create a new article just for horses, but would prefer to have a lot more material to add first.  Montanabw(talk) 21:43, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  In non-human animals 

message: The article states "World Clubfood [sic] Day was introduced in 2013 by Ponseti International Association and is celebrated on June 3rd every year." This was added in April by this edit and is obviously a complete piece of illogic. If the edit was added in April saying the alleged "Day" was introduced in June 2013 is senseless, and as this "Day" was (or rather, "shall be") first marked in 2013 it can hardly, from the perspective of April 2013, be "celebrated" every year. (As a small piece of original research a club foot is hardly something to celebrate; mine is more something to decry). As this section is completely uncited I propose deleting it unless it's a) reworded and b) referenced by Monday 20th May. At the least it's promotional, at the worst it's a copyvio from somewhere. Tonywalton Talk 23:43, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Deleted, per the above. No dissenting voices (correcting "Clubfood" to "Clubfoot" doesn't count). If this is to be reinstated it must be cited per WP:V and WP:RS, correctly worded per WP:BALL and must not read like an advertisement. Tonywalton Talk 22:48, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  A touch of the [[WP:CRYSTAL|crystal balls]]? 

message: I'm obviously no expert on horses, but to my untrained eye, those images of hooves look totally normal. I especially noted the one comparing the "normal" hoof with the "Stage 1 club foot"...I studied it for a minute or two, and they appear identical to me. I thought it said that the club foot "gives the appearance of walking en pointe". Why do the hooves shown all appear to be flat on the ground?.45Colt 20:54, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that the images are very poor, and the text unclear. The image of the pony hooves at least show something abnormal. I think it would be helpful to rewrite the text, and replace the second and third images with a diagram that makes it clear what is happening. --Ronz (talk) 22:06, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photos of horse hooves? 

message: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B6sh4eLSj14NWUdIN0FBQ09zbWM&usp=sharing  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sabrina.ponsi (talk • contribs) 15:40, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some sources on talipes equinovarus 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Club foot. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110706165126/http://www.cw.bc.ca/library/pamphlets/search_view.asp?keyword=219 to http://www.cw.bc.ca/library/pamphlets/search_view.asp?keyword=219
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 19:53, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The third paragraph on the page has little relevance to club foot and is distracting. This section� should be moved to the other animals section at the bottom of the page because it is not a necessary topic for this page. Information should read medically based rather than general talk because it is a medical condition. The third sentence under French Method category has little relevance and is difficult to understand�. Is the History section necessary on this page? One sentence does not seem pertinent to this medical condition. Further Physical Therapy Interventions and other interventions for later on in life including adequate resources should be added to build the reputation of the page. GR3GP1K3 (talk) 18:19, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article evaluation and general considerations to improve the page 

message: A Management section should be included in the article to provide useful and reliable information for readers to cope with the condition.
Besides that, it will be a beneficial to the readers if a section about the available helps and resources where they could get support from included in the article.
Yieng (talk) 18:03, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggestions 

message: I think there is a lot of information in this article however, there is a lot of information that I feel does not need to focused on such as the history section. I think the article should be more clear and concise with the information. I also think that the Ponseti method could be subdivided as well with focus on maintenance and interventions for management.
Waterhouset (talk) 13:23, 13 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggestions 

message: These are some good sources
*
* 
Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 15:11, 14 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources

message: *Saying the achilles is cut is clearer than saying it is "released"
: yes, but for a concerned parent of newborn affected by this condition who may be looking for information, the term "cut" is more intimidating. It is important to be accurate, but it seems better if the article could start with some reassuring comments about the condition and the value of treatment and avoid scaring them in the first few lines. Nwaan (talk) 03:39, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Ponseti viewed his method as "non-surgical" and and his method was popularized in the early days of the internet in a grassroots movement initiated by his appreciative patient families on a listserv called "nosurgeryforclubfoot". Ponseti's recommendation in his book  that some clubfoot patients have an office procedure for "a simple subcutaneous tenotomy of the tendo Achilles under local anesthesia", is not necessarily a "surgery". Many procedures are done under local anesthesia (suturing of lacerations, joint aspirations, some fracture reductions, etc) and they are not considered "surgery". Also, not all patients have a tenotomy as part of treatment. It seems a disservice to Ponseti and the many families who supported him to equate his tenotomy with historical forms of clubfoot surgery. Again, in the introductory comments, it seems seems intimidating to emphasize the challenges that occur for some patients, when 80% of patients do not require anything more than casting, bracing, and a "subcutaneous tenotomy under local anesthesia" Nwaan (talk) 03:39, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: With respect to the wearing of the brace the ref says:
"The usual type of brace is a foot abduction brace (Fig. 3) that holds both feet abducted and dorsiflexed and is worn 23 h per day for the first 3 months and then at sleep times, aiming for 12–14 h of brace wear each day, until the age of 4 years. "
No initially it is nearly continuously. Have added that wording. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 01:17, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

text: "Bending" is not an accurate term and seems harsh and more dramatic relative to the terminology used by Ponseti to describe the molding or manipulation done as part of the Ponseti method. In his book, Ponseti described describes his process of correcting clubfoot deformity as "gentle manipulation" with "molding" of the cast. Again, for the introductory comments, it seems less intimidating to parents of a newborn with this condition as a description of what the doctor is going to do to their baby's foot. It seems better to use "manipulate" as Ponseti did, or "stretch" or "massage" rather than "bending" an infant's foot to correct deformity. Nwaan (talk) 03:39, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: User:Nwaan How about "moving" as a simple term which is not intimidating? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 17:06, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

text: We do not mention the French method in the lead. Did you ref the source attached to the statement? The US is fairly US centric. The NA Ortho Society look at any place other than the USA? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 17:06, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

text: Sure but please base it on high quality secondary sources rather than primary sources. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 18:50, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Wording

message: I have removed the section because they are not actually notable cases. A notable case of a medical condition is something that is written about in medical journals. The people who were mentioned in the section are notable for a wide variety of reasons ranging from arts to politics - none were listed/discussed because there is something particularly interesting about their clubbed feet. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 07:19, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds good. These sorts of details can be mentioned on the article about the person. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 17:39, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Subject to WP:EGRS of course. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 05:08, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Mentioned on the article about the person if their is consensus and policy supports doing so I guess I should have said. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 23:29, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable cases 

message: No one delete the French Method. Please stop deleting it. GR3GP1K3 (talk) 18:09, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: You have been provided a bunch of guidance on your talk page. Moving this back to your sandbox so you can adjust it based on the advice their. Why do you write "Therapists" with a capital letter? Why not use secondary sources? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 06:47, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  French Method 

message: SEE POST BELOW WHICH DISCUSSES WHAT PARTS OF WORKPLAN WERE ACCOMPLISHED
Hello, I am a fourth year medical student at UCSF who is taking the Wikipedia elective. My goal over the next month is to improve this page so that it more clearly, comprehensively, and effectively communicates information about clubfoot to the general public.
===Workplan===
Overall
* Revise article to follow guidelines from the Manual of Style for Medicine-related articles, such as:
* Use active voice where possible
* Replace jargon with plain English
Signs and symptoms
* Distinguish between signs and symptoms
* Include more examples of signs and symptoms
* Be more descriptive and add photos so that a reader can easily visualize and imagine what it might be like to have clubfoot
Causes
* Add supporting citations; remove unsupported statements
* Review current literature on genetic causes and update "Genetics" section to ensure that it is up-to-date, including relevant information
Diagnosis
* Reorganize bulleted list of clubfoot deformity components so that it is concise, clearly formatted and easily readable.
* Add photos depicting each component of the deformity.
Treatment
* Review current literature on treatment and update this section to ensure it is up-to-date
* Reorganize "Ponseti method" section so that it is concise, and clearly delineates the sequence of events. Consider utilizing subheadings rather than bullet points
* Add discussion under "Ponseti method" about common issues and how to address these (ie. skin breaks, brace discomfort)
* Reorganize "Surgery" section with subheadings such as "[name of specific surgery]," "Risks/Complications," "Technique," and "Recovery or Rehabilitation."
* Check that the "Surgery" section is geared towards an appropriate audience and reading level
Prognosis
* Add this section
* Discuss the expected prognosis with/without treatment, treatment success rates, and risk factors for poor outcomes
History
* Include relevant information such as background on Dr. Ponseti, the origins of treatments, and any outdated treatments
* Remove incomplete or unsupported information
Introduction and References sections
* Update to capture and reflect the changes made above
* Add information about the epidemiology, including a discussion of the global burden and impact of clubfoot
===Timeline===
12/1: finish workplan
12/5: complete research, begin edits
12/10: submit first edits
12/11: begin peer reviews (video call)
12/15: post peer review on talk page
12/16: respond to peer review (video call)
12/19: submit final edits
12/20: wrap-up course
SEE POST BELOW WHICH DISCUSSES WHAT PARTS OF WORKPLAN WERE ACCOMPLISHED
--Ellenltsay (talk) 21:34, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: UCSF WikiMed 2019 Elective Workplan

message: 12/1: finish workplan
12/5: complete research, begin edits
12/10: submit first edits
12/11: begin peer reviews (video call)
12/15: post peer review on talk page
12/16: respond to peer review (video call)
12/19: submit final edits
12/20: wrap-up course
SEE POST BELOW WHICH DISCUSSES WHAT PARTS OF WORKPLAN WERE ACCOMPLISHED
--Ellenltsay (talk) 21:34, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Timeline

message: Not sure why this overview was slit into a section on prognosis?
"Treatment is usually with some combination of the Ponseti or French methods. The Ponseti method includes the following: casting together with manipulation, cutting the Achilles tendon, and bracing. The Ponseti method has been found to be effective in correcting the problem in those under the age of two. The French method, which involves realignment and taping of the foot, is often effective, but requires a lot of effort by caregivers. Another technique known as Kite does not appear as good. In about 20% of cases, further surgery is required."
IMO it flowed well as it was? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 00:30, 16 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Overview of treatment

message: Thanks Atenorio2080 for your review of my workplan. I agree that I have not been able to complete every item of my workplan. I will address this by indicating which items I was able to address and which I have yet to get to, so that fellow Wikipedians can focus and prioritize their efforts accordingly. I have expanded the epidemiology section and have edited the Ponseti portion of the treatment section. My next goal is to run through as much of the article as possible and ensure that it is free of jargon (or link to pages defining terms). However, if I have additional time I will also try to find citations for the Causes and Surgery sections.
Doc James, thank you for diligently monitoring and upholding the quality of this article. I had initially broken out a separate Prognosis section with the intention of fleshing it out thoroughly with information on recurrence rates, bracing adherence, and factors affecting long-term prognosis. I anticipated there would be enough material here to warrant a separate section. However I published changes before I had fleshed out this section - I agree with you that for now it should be kept as was before. Thanks!
--Ellenltsay (talk) 10:49, 16 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds good. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 20:38, 16 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Responses to ATenorio2080 & Doc James

message: Hello, I am a fourth year medical student at UCSF who is taking the Wikipedia elective. My goal over the past month was to improve this page so that it more clearly, comprehensively, and effectively communicates information about clubfoot to the general public. My initial workplan is posted above. Below is a summary of major changes made:
Signs and symptoms: Included more, and more descriptive, examples of signs and symptoms
Diagnosis: Reorganized the components of deformity into a table (accompanied by diagrams that I illustrated and uploaded to Wikimedia) so that it is more concise, readable, and visual.
Treatment: Reorganized the "Ponseti method" section into a bulleted list to be more concise and clearly delineate the sequence of events. Added discussion under "Ponseti method" about recurrence, risk factors for recurrence, and importance of bracing. Added hyperlinks to anatomic terms
Epidemiology: Reworded and rearranged for clarity and better flow
General: Updated lede & info-box to capture and reflect the changes made above. Used active voice, avoided jargon, and reworded for clarity, conciseness and natural flow throughout
Suggested areas for future focus:
Causes: Add supporting citations; remove unsupported statements. Update with the current literature on genetic causes.
Treatment: Reorganize the "Surgery" section to be more readable and structured. Consider using subheadings such as "[name of specific surgery]," "Risks/Complications," "Technique," and "Recovery or Rehabilitation."
History: Remove incomplete, unsupported, and irrelevant information. Include a brief history of developments in treatment (ie. Dr. Ponseti), treatment devices, global initiatives, etc.
Thanks for all your work on this page!
--Ellenltsay (talk) 9:43, 20 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: UCSF WikiMed 2019 Summary of Changes

message: I have restored a bunch of reference to the lead. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 01:55, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: References

message: — Assignment last updated by Awalzzz (talk) 21:13, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: UCSF SOM Inquiry In Action-- Wikipedia Editing 2022

message: I think this article was well written and informed me of a new medical condition I have never formally learned about in medical school. The one comment I have is to possibly consider rearranging the article such that the history, cultural references, and epidemiology to the beginning of the article page before the signs and system, which should improve the article flow.  Brandongo60 (talk) 04:14, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wiki Education assignment: UCSF SOM Inquiry In Action-- Wikipedia Editing 2022 

message: In reviewing the clubfoot article, it is clear that there was lots of time, energy, and dedication put into creating a cohesive and informative page. The edits regarding etiologies and ensuring that the communicated information is culturally aware has definitely elevated the article. Zurcnhoj (talk) 04:17, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Feedback on Clubfoot Article - Overview and Cultural Competency 

message: Parts of this article are impenetrable for people with average education. At least, there should be explanations (or weblinks to them) for the more obscure terms. 
Better would be to rewrite, avoiding medical terminology as possible, like "environmental insult" for physical harm, or "oligohydramnios" and many others just in this one paragraph (Causes, extrinsic factors):
Factors that can influence the positioning of the fetal foot in utero include oligohydramnios, breech presentation, Müllerian anomalies, multiple gestation, amniotic band sequence, or amniocentesis at <15 weeks of gestation. In cases that impede normal growth and position for longstanding period of times, clubfoot can be accompanied with other deformations and may be associated with developmental hip dysplasia. The theory of fetal growth arrest was proposed by Von Volkmann in 1863, and has been verified by other authors since. According to this theory, intrinsic errors or environmental insults during gestation prevents the correction of an equinovarus to pronated foot. Other researchers hypothesize that clubfoot may derive from external insults during gestation. For example, a research study found an alarmingly high incidence of club foot and limb contractures associated with iatrogenic amniotic leakage caused by early amniocentesis between the 11th and 12th week of gestation. Geke (talk) 21:27, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Consider simplifying the language