Talk:Smart meter

message: Google power is now discontinued. Would recommend adding to page where it is mentioned  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.215.172.113 (talk) 12:42, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Google Power is discontinued 

message: Really one of the most biased and unfounded entries I've seen on Wikipedia.  This is not ABOUT smart meters, it's AGAINST them.  Wikipedia is supposed to be informational, not a one-sided blog.  Most of this is marginal conspiracy theory, tea party stuff.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.79.111.43 (talk) 02:04, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Who are you? What is your agenda? If you think that the article is untruthful, change the untruths. Tea party stuff? I am English, and the only tea party here is my wife. I am a coffee man. Wythy (talk) 09:09, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not an article, but a biased screed 

message: I read a lot of lies concerning the health aspect of smart meters and they are all nonsense. If they were all so bad for our health then it would never have been released in the first place! To think otherwise is to claim our leaders are not watching over us, unpatriotic. There's all this conspiracy on youtube about how we are being killed off, thankfully wikipedia has the decentcy not to push such madness. Naysayers have too much time on their hands, they should be given medication so they don't become alqaida.
Tom Parsons 71.59.22.152 (talk) 12:23, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: To think otherwise is to claim our leaders are not watching over us, unpatriotic -- I almost LOLed, but then I realized you're serious. Do you have any facts to share, Tom? -- 70.109.45.74 (talk) 18:28, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Smart meters are healthy for you 

message: Looks like the external links here is turning into a bit of a link farm. What should we include? Should it just be those that produce smart metering equipment (such as AMPY) or should also include any company offering to reduce bills? I'll return in a few days to clean up. Comments welcome.
peterl 10:37, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have again removed the link farm. WP is not a website directory, and WP:EL makes it pretty clear that such lists aren't appropriate. -- Mikeblas 12:24, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Concern on External Links 

message: The smart meter has three main functions: measure, switch and communicate. The first and third are obvious. But how about the switch, why is this not mentioned in the introduction? Although not used much - so to hope - the switch is an important element. It is logical for a main reason. If the customer does not pay for the bill, or something rude is used against the meter, the switch will be turned off remotely. The switch on board can be used advantageous for the customer, to limit the consumed power. Exceeding this limit may lead to switching off, but the customer can switch on after reducing the load. This will become an active part in the as soon as the idea for the capacity-tariff is introduced. This is the contracted amount of power that may be consumed, limited to the capacity of the grid connection. The capacity tariff in combination with smart (sub)devices, will prevent the smart meter to switch off. So the portal from the smart meter to the user will get an important role as well. I think the triple functionality measure, switch and communicate should be mentioned in the introduction. Bouwhuise (talk) 23:54, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: not only to limit the consumed power, but also to limit the power that enters the grid (in distributed generation). Mion (talk) 08:37, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Article seems very unclear as to what constitutes minimum or essential smart meter functionality. What communications come from the utility to the meter ? - Rod57 (talk) 12:40, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Smart meter functionality 

message: I've just created the page Nonintrusive load monitoring.  Does a summary belong on this page?--Nowa (talk) 14:34, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Nonintrusive load monitoring

message: This page reads like an advert for smart-meters written by the electricity companies enforcing them on their users.  No coverage is given to the ongoing legal disputes surrounding them, nor issues such as the overcharging of customers that PG&E has had to acknowledge recently.  The one negative mentioned is a single non-informative line noting there are questions about security, it should be explained exactly why.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.210.162.176 (talk) 23:28, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Health concerns?  Is there any science or is this the usual hillbilly reaction to flouride in the water? California is the home of granola nuttiness, and I can just picture an army of smart meter protesters lighting up cigarettes and munching on cheesburgers as they protest whatever they speculate is the "health" issue. --Wtshymanski (talk) 14:26, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  There was nothing in the San Francisco Examiner article about health concerns at all, it was more about accuracy concerns.  I've removed the dubious section. --Wtshymanski (talk) 15:05, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I  agree with Wtshymanski that the health section is entirely dubious. Nelson50T 20:21, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

text: You have the same authority as anybody else to edit this article, although if you are less familiar with Wikipedia it may be harder to do.  But I understand that you are making a point for other editors to take into consideration. North8000 (talk) 12:57, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Bias

message: Forget researching the subject--I am harmed by Smart Meters NOW! Two months ago I figured out that Smart Meters were the reason I was virtually bedridden. I own my own home, but am forced to live in my car. SMART METERS ARE DANGEROUS!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Melissa Anti-Smart Meter (talk • contribs) 22:26, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: We need a reliable source for that. What, pray tell, is the health effect? Are people hitting their heads on meters, do they fall off during earthquakes, are they giving off bad karma?  --Wtshymanski (talk) 17:17, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

text: Of course if there are government and scientific sources that debunk any of the controversies (not just the medical controversy) they should be included, so one year later, where are these sources? And sorry Brangifer, newspaper editorials are not RS for anything other than establishing that the author of an editorial has a certain opinion. AADM2 (talk) 14:09, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

text: We should also link this to the Electromagnetic radiation and health article. -- Brangifer (talk) 16:24, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

text: 2B is a list of possible carcinogens. Other notable entries on the 2B list: caffine, Citrus Red 2 (food dye), Gasoline, and Carpentry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_IARC_Group_2B_carcinogens  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.11.36.165 (talk) 14:58, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have some bad news for you...if you've ever seen daylight (the Sun is a powerful source of radiation), you are going to die. Are you aware of the difference between ionizing and non-ionizing radiation. This sort of comment resembles trolling, if so, congratulations, you've hooked another.  Ever seen a cell tower?  Perhaps you have been in the same room as someone using a cell phone? They are not "powerful" radio transmitters, they can't be "hacked" that easily (and even so, what of it?  It's the power company's problem if they lose billing information). It is inappropriate, perhaps, to attribute base motives to Wikipedia editors.   --Wtshymanski (talk) 19:21, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree Wtshymanski regarding "radiation".  However, the controversy should still be covered as such. North8000 (talk) 20:33, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I was sure I'd spoken to this point before: "Well there's POV, and then there's giving undue weight to cranks. I suppose we can put POV tags on flurodation, evolution, the Copernican solar system, the round earth theory.... --Wtshymanski (talk) 17:06, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: We keep losing an important distinction here. To invent an example that makes the distinction clearer, if 100,000 flat-earth society people hold a protest against The XYZ Globe company for mis-representing the shape of ther earth, then covering that protest as a protest is a very different thing than covering the flat-earth point of view as such. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 03:37, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: This isn't "news of the weird" and such a protest would have trouble making WP:NOTABILITY. It could appear as an example in an article about crackpots, but certainly not in the article about the Earth. It may be more difficult to explain why Einstein's analysis of the photoelectric effect (which btw is what his Nobel prize is for) completely precludes the possibility of 1 GHz RF being ionizing than it is to explain why the Flat Earthers are deluded, but that doesn't make claims of cancer risks from 1 GHz RF being any less WP:FRINGE. Jeh (talk) 03:47, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:Notability is a requirement for something to exist as a separate article, not one for something being in an article. North8000 (talk) 11:31, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: For my example, coverage of the large protest as-such would probably be good material for an article on the making of globes.  But getting presenting and discussing flat-earth philosophies would not.  North8000 (talk) 12:38, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

text: That's sort of settled science.  We all know the earth isn't flat, it's hemispherical, supported by 4 giant elephants which are standing on the back of an even larger turtle.  :-) North8000 (talk) 12:38, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Health problems 

message: If this article is to merge AMI into it, then it follows that AMR should also be merged into it. Other than that it seems strange to leave AMR as its own article while not giving AMI its own article. Septagram (talk) 22:28, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Be Bold. Is there any non-trivial content at AMR ? --Wtshymanski (talk) 22:38, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Looking at Automatic meter reading, I think there's enough differences that these two articles should remain separate. Two-way communication seems to be the defining characteristic of a "smart" meter. --Wtshymanski (talk) 20:20, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  AMI was merged, so why not AMR? 

message: Meters, smart or dumb, are not surge arresters.  If a transformer fails or a line falls on another line or any one of a number of bad things happens, no meter is going to protect from overvoltage.  That's not it's job. --Wtshymanski (talk) 21:30, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Meters are not surge arresters

message: I've made some changes to the controversies section, just posting the rationale here in case they are contentious. I removed the following paragraph:
The WHO/International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) has classified radiofrequency electromagnetic fields as possibly carcinogenic to humans (Group 2B), based on an increased risk for glioma, a malignant type of brain cancer, associated with wireless phone use.
This is a true statement, but grossly misleading in this context, see Electromagnetic radiation and health#World Health Organization. The quotation included at the bottom was also not representative of the source, so I trimmed off the trailing half-sentence.
My main issue with the section is that it presumes that the meter is an RF transmitter and discusses RF safety issues with significant point of view issues. It would be far more constructive to discuss different organisations' points of view in a neutral manner. --Michael Billington (talk) 09:52, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The controversies section needs to be expanded (sections on all of the other areas of opposition are still missing, as is coverage of organizaiotns and activities in opposition.)  but I think that your trim was a good one.  The trimmed sentence was synthesis by juxtaposition. North8000 (talk) 11:10, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Controversies  section 

message: :I wouldn't call what I did "approving".  I just put it in in a modified form, on a sort of BRD basis. North8000 (talk) 10:33, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. I didn't see any way of salvaging that one sentence, so I just took it out. User:King4057 (EthicalWiki) 01:26, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going to put the above edit in, then immediately tweak it little for wikification.   Others please feel free to revert or modify. North8000 (talk) 00:00, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Done North8000 (talk) 00:09, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

text: One other item is that the few loads that can be painlessly shifted (e.g. electric car charging - just put on a timer) would be shifted without a penalty system, and only very painful price penalties will cause the painful-to-shift loads to be shifted.  So that they are unnecessary for the former, and there should be sufficient capacity (not rationing) to handle the latter. North8000 (talk) 22:43, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: COI Edit Requests

message: Thanks for your directness. On first read the one thing that jumped out at me was the sentence that tied the general advertising word "reducing peak loads, reducing energy use and improving operations." to one particular installation.  
One other thought is whether it's wp:undue or not useful to describe individual installations.   Not sure of the answers to that, just raising the question.  Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 19:29, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. I didn't see any way of salvaging that one sentence, so I just took it out. User:King4057 (EthicalWiki) 01:26, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going to put the above edit in, then immediately tweak it little for wikification.   Others please feel free to revert or modify. North8000 (talk) 00:00, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Done North8000 (talk) 00:09, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Feedback on request

message: The section as it stands is not very good. It's large and disjointed. Although the health 'concerns' are pseudoscience, it's certainly a fact that some people do strongly object on this basis. So the article should mention this fact.
But the opponents' overt hypochondriasis obscures their other concerns, some of which may actually be valid, and I'd like to see them discussed more clearly than the opponents themselves seem capable of doing.
These concerns seem to fall into two general categories: privacy/security, and the user impact of TOU (time of use) rates.
The first could benefit significantly from citations to *specific*, well-documented instances of privacy compromise or hacking, if any.
Regarding TOU rates, all I see now in the article is that some customers don't like having the price of electricity fluctuate and presently lack the means to automatically shift load. There is no mention that TOU is driven by several underlying economic facts of life that simply cannot be ignored, to wit: Electricity cannot now be easily stored in large amounts so generation must continually match demand. Demand fluctuates substantially and often unpredictably. Historically, demand has been almost completely uncontrolled and this sometimes results in blackouts when a utility is unable to obtain sufficient supply. Electricity is generated in different ways with big differences in capacity, fuel and operating costs. And so on. Saying smart meters are bad because customers don't like rates to vary is like saying that grocery prices should be set by government fiat because people don't want to have to stop eating strawberries just because this year's crop was completely ruined by a blight. In the real world, prices vary with basic economic factors like changing supply and demand, and it's just silly to deny reality. Karn (talk) 22:15, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: One other item is that the few loads that can be painlessly shifted (e.g. electric car charging - just put on a timer) would be shifted without a penalty system, and only very painful price penalties will cause the painful-to-shift loads to be shifted.  So that they are unnecessary for the former, and there should be sufficient capacity (not rationing) to handle the latter. North8000 (talk) 22:43, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Improving the opposition discussion

message: This article seems a bit light on the HAN part of the system. I have added some references to PLC and ZigBee in the technology and UK implementation sections; editors are invited to expand on the technologies and the national implementations where they have useful knowledge. AutolycusQ (talk) 12:27, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  HAN technology 

message: The link in reference no. 72 is broken:
http://www.etsi.org/WebSite/NewsandEvents/2012_01_Open_Smart_Grid.aspx ETSI Approves Open Smart Grid Protocol (OSGP) for Grid Technologies
--Tillmo (talk) 10:32, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  broken link 

message: By chance, I found http://viviva.co/resources/Viviva%20-%20Smart%20Meter%20Technology.pdf . The text of this PDF has been larged copied from the Wikipedia article, but Wikipedia is not quoted as a source. Even some [citation needed] occurs in this PDF! --Tillmo (talk) 10:42, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  plagiarism 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: There doesn't seem to be a page for this company.  Given how many people have issues with their products some information on who they're dealing with would be welcome.  If there is a page, please link here.  All I could find was something in Latin or so.  Otherwise, please make one. THKS.  2602:306:30BA:28A0:9800:4BF:122B:89CA (talk) 08:33, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:SOFIXIT. Wikipedia articles are written by people like you. That said, we don't create pages for companies just because they make a lot of some product, or because people have issues with their product. The subject of an article generally has to meet our notability guidelines. If you can find what WP will consider reliable sources about the company then an article might be created. Failing that, a section in this article might be in order. Jeh (talk) 10:28, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sensus (mfr of smart meters) 

message: I removed the following from section "Canada" due to improper formatting: 
Texas court case may indicate that,  ITRON meters installed in B.C may have smaller meter base pins that leads to increased heating of meter base and pins,  from poor electrical contacts.  Because of the design  location of the Voltage sensor in the ITRON C2S0D smart meter,  line voltage is measured ahead of the shutoff relay. This results that the customer is paying for power, lost to the on circuit resistance of the meter shutoff relay.   When combined the two losses of voltage in the meter are,  on circuit voltage drop and meter pin voltage drop.  Those voltage losses , decreases the operational efficiency of the B.C Power grid, and increased home energy usage by reducing home line voltage in smart meter homes, over what was possible using anolog meters.  See url related to the court case  http://www.stopsmartmetersbc.com/smart-meter-safety-risk-letter-to-bc-minister-of-energy-and-mines-bennett/ 
If someone wishes to restore this properly, feel free, so far as I'm concerned. — MaxEnt 01:21, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Passage removed 

message: I've read the main parts of the article and the section for my own country (UK) and there's a lot about what their purpose is and what they do and how/where/when they are being rolled out etc., but how do they actually work? How do they communicate with the utility companies? Does it use the mobile network? A wifi connection to a broadband network. Or is it some kind of hard-wired connection or what? Given that some rural areas especially have very poor connectivity for anything—mobile network, broadband, poor TV signal etc—can these meters be used there or not. I came to this article to find out how they worked from a technical perspective, but was offered few clues. 2.24.8.92 (talk) 20:56, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  But how do they work??? 

message: There is nothing in this wiki article about the Last Gasp feature. This is a signal sent out by the meter when there is a power outage. See also Dying gasp. 81.128.174.58 (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 12:38, 28 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Last Gasp or Dying Gasp 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018)