Talk:Madam

message: WP:WINAD (including a usage guide) but no one really cares about that these days.  - PhilipR 21:25, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WINAD 

message: I propose removal of the portion of the introduction which labels ma'am as an incorrect use of the word Madam. Titles such as these have changed throughout the years, and have been accepted.  Although it may be incorrect to use ma'am in certain countries, in the United States it is not so necessarily. Nicholas SL Smith 06:16, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: How can ma'am be incorrect? It is merely an abbreviation with the removed letter noted by the apostrophe. 129.105.10.128 21:59, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with the removal by 129.105.10.128. Nicholas SL Smith 22:14, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

text: That is what I came in here to say. How the heck is one supposed to rhyme "ma'am" and "farm"? I'm no poet, but wouldn't any word rhyming with "farm" require the 'AR' syllable? Is there some vernacular in which people pronounce "ma'am" as "marm"? 68.222.247.4 (talk) 16:28, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: When I first read the line (and I'm not saying it's accurate WRT British police), I thought of the old term "school marm" for teacher and wondered if that is the same term.  Any thoughts?  138.162.128.53 (talk) 13:03, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

text: Perhaps I can add some clarity as an American living in the UK.  When pronounced with a non-existant r, farm turns into faahm  (the middle has an ah sound f-ah-m).  If you look at it that way, the marm (pronounced maahm) can rhyme with farm.  matt 09:36, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ma'am, not incorrect 

message: Could anyone who knows more about this add a section about the use of "Madam" in Southeast Asian English, where it comes before the maiden name of a married woman? As in Mr Lee's wife being simultaneously Mrs Lee and Mdm Tan? This is ubiquitous in places such as Singapore and IMHO needs a section here. JREL (talk) 10:03, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Had a hard time finding decent refs for this, but there's now a brief mention.  Should probably also note that this is a little old-fashioned now and also used by many divorcees. Jpatokal (talk) 12:42, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Long time later, I found a Malaysian reference which does specifically mention the practice and in particular how Madam is normally followed by the woman's own surname while Mrs may be followed by her husband's surname. (Well the source says her father's surname but I think it's well established that generally her father's surname remains her surname after marriage.) Unfortunately it doesn't mention, and I agree that the practice is rare now, at least for any women I'd say 50 years or younger (or maybe more?). In fact AFAIK it was already fairly rare about 20 years ago even though at the time, Ms hadn't really taken hold much at least in Malaysia AFAIK. Another thing not mentioned is that the if an abbreviate is used, it tends to be Mdm not Mme. I also removed the example of Chiang Kai-shek into a separate line. It's not from Malaysia or Singapore and the usage there is different. Other than the abbreviate Mme, more significantly it's her husband's name. As said, in Malaysia and Singapore it's normally the opposite. Madam will generally be followed by her surname or sometimes her full name. Mrs may be followed by her husband's surname or (I think even rarer) sometimes her husband's full name. As she doesn't normally adopt her husband's surname as her name AFAIK it's not that common to call someone with her husband's surname followed by her name regardless of whether Mrs or Madam are used. (By comparison, you may say Mrs Margaret Thatcher since that's her name.) Nil Einne (talk) 07:27, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Madam as honorific 

message: I'm from Western Canada and I wouldn't say it is common here in the same way it is in the US south. It is used - but predominantly in a customer service setting. It isn't, for example, how young children are taught to address female adults. It would never be used to refer to your own relatives.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.161.165.22 (talk) 21:24, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I live in the South (Dallas, TX) and Ma'am, Sir, and Miss, (sometimes Ms. for divorcees) are used quite often. Also, I don't get the sexism here. I'm a woman, and do not think Miss or Ma'am is sexist. It's used when speaking politely to someone else. I am almost thirty, and prefer being called Miss (I look pretty young), but am okay with Ma'am (unfortunately by this age I guess I am a Ma'am). It only got annoying sometimes when I was called Ma'am in my late teens or early-mid twenties by a a small number of people. I am actually offended by the fact that the article says the use of such terms is sexist. Where is a source to back that up? Was this written by an ultra-feminist? I am a feminist, but that is a ridiculous statement. It could be said, that some women find that offensive, specifically some feminists. Any thoughts on changing the wording? CreativeSoul7981 (talk) 02:15, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Ma'am is common in the Southern US and Western Canada?

message: How is the term ma'am racist? One reference from an obscure, insignificant Michigan liberal arts college. Hardly qualifies it as racist. In the modern south, black and white women are commonly addressed as ma'am out of courtesy, and as a sign of good manners.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.217.8.240 (talk) 00:39, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I concur. Also, I mentioned under another section on here that I found it offensive the article claimed the use of the term, as well as the use of 'Miss' was sexist. There is no source to back this up. Maybe some feminists find it offensive, but I don't know anyone personally offended by the term. The wording makes it seems as if everyone finds the word sexist. I am a woman by the way. CreativeSoul7981 (talk) 02:17, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

text: All those parts about ma'am being racist and sexist deserve a big POV stamp on them, EU Parliament ruling or not. One of the links is about an old lady who says she hates being called ma'am but she tips the waitperson (!) 50% every time he calls her miss. This is not political correctness, let alone objective reality: this is just the whims of some women out there who don't know what to do with their time. Another source given is a stupid discussion on the forum of allvegaspoker.com. I suggest adding a remark about this racist-sexy thing being the agenda of feminists, hardline liberals, whoever, and is NOT, as the article tries to suggest, a popular belief. (Actually with the average people I think it's rather a laughingstock.) Zigomer trubahin (talk) 18:41, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Much of what you say actually confirms what the article suggests, even if that usage is unsourced. Such generalizing and unfounded talk about liberals and "women who don't know what to do with their time" is fairly useless and borderline insulting. What should those feminists be doing with their time--crocheting? Drmies (talk) 20:15, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

text: To heck with it.  I shouldn't find an entry for "madam" in Wikipedia, anyway.  "Mayflower Madam", yes; word "madam", no.  And with so much material unsourced and (as indicated by this talk page) controversial, I think this article should be deleted.  NB:  I actually tried editing first, but by the time I removed all the unverifiable material and opinions-stated-as-facts, there was nothing left! AnonTech (talk) 16:16, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  How is the term ma'am racist? 

message: Should someone add that in most of the US/American English, Madam is NOT something you would want to call someone?  A madam is one who runs a house of prostitution.  I don't think any american woman would relish being called a madam in the US.  Matt 86.29.242.223 (talk) 09:37, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Not true; a madame is a woman that runs a brothel. "madame" as a form of address has no such meaning. it is often seen as very formal, however. in business correspondence its paired with "sir" ("dear sir or madame") and and when addressing high ranking officials by their title, as the female equivalent of "mister" ("Madame Speaker", "Madame Secretary" etc). Firejuggler86 (talk) 08:08, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Madam in AME 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The Oxford dictionary's IPA guide has a third pronunciation, however the character used doesn't seem to be in the library for Template:IPAc-en. One might question how necessary it is to include it, however, going by Madam#Formal protocol, and checking the pronunciation guide in the same dictionary for jam, one finds that this third pronunciation is the one dictated by protocol for address to the Queen, at least according to the text in the article / cited source. Thus, having it not included seems like a large oversight. Dimitriye98 (talk) 12:48, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Third pronunciation