Talk:Variable Star

message: :The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 
The result of the debate was move to Variable Star (novel). -- tariqabjotu (joturner) 00:09, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: :Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~
*Support, somebody confused the cover treatment with the title. --Dhartung | Talk 09:02, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It has just been moved to Supermassive Black Hole (song) Aiyda 16:56, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Zzzzzzzzzzz made the move to Variable Star (novel) and I don't think a further move is necessary. --Fournax 20:35, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: The article is IMO severely unbalanced at this point. It consists mainly of an extremely long and overly detailed plot summary. That's just not appropriate for an encyclopedia article. I think the plot summary should be edited down to something like 1/4 of its current length.--24.52.254.62 02:40, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't disagree, but it seems to be a systemic issue in all of the R.A.H. novel and short story articles (and possibly in other fiction articles on Wikipedia).  I'm not sure that an encyclopedia article that's simply a point-by-point regurgitation of the plot is really the best approach.  But we should probably review them all as a group; the style and structure ought to be internally consistent. -- Jim Douglas (talk) (contribs) 02:45, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree about the need for consistency, and in any case, it's just not practical to require consistency of that kind, because that's not WP's strength; WP is a massively parallel project. I think there's also a difference between this book and the other Heinlein books. If you take a book like Stranger, or Starship Troopers, you have a massive amount of criticism that's been written about them, so you can write an article that isn't original research, uses verifiable sources, is fairly long, and doesn't just consist of a plot synopsis. That's not the case with Variable Star.--24.52.254.62 02:52, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Stranger and Starship Troopers are probably the most prominent books, and have received the most attention from multiple editors.  Several others are mostly plot summary:  Red Planet (novel), Between Planets, I Will Fear No Evil.  -- Jim Douglas (talk) (contribs) 02:58, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What else do you want to write about?  It hasn't made the bestseller list.  There hasn't been time to see if it is going to win (or even be eligible for) a HUgo or Nebula.  Let me know.--Wehwalt 03:35, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I've gone through and put { { Plot } } templates on all the Heinlein novels that seemed to me to have this problem. IMO it was roughly half of them. I was actually pleasantly surprised at how many managed to be fairly lengthy without consisting of long plot synopses.--24.52.254.62 03:25, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Since you have a history of editing with some consistency and some attachment to Heinlein's work, I encourage you to register an ID and use it.  It is free and easy and not a burden.  You will get more respect.  I almost went through and reverted all your plot tags, but being cautious, I investigated first. Hu 05:11, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I suggest that fixing the plot summaries would be much better than making all the book articles look ugly by adding  to the top of them.  I don't think it will encourage anyone to fix the plot summaries. --Pmsyyz 11:37, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Pmsyyz.  Go do it and then other editors will judge if it was done well.  That is how WP works.  It annoys me when someone says "oh, there is a problem" and doesn't offer a solution.  Get on with it.--Wehwalt 11:49, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Imbalance, overly long plot summary

message: :Image:Variablestarhe.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 07:04, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Variablestarhe.jpg

message: Please try reading the novel as you write about it: Both these are discussed at some length in the text of the novel itself, and are far more clearly real-world references than some of the others now listed. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:18, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Furthermore, IIRC, Spider doesn't mention Grey in the afterword at all. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:24, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, let us say that Joel read War and Peace during his journey.  Should we give Tolstoy a shout out?--Wehwalt (talk) 01:00, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That would be a line. If Robinson had spent a couple pages describing Tolstoy in detail, and there were still a question in the average reader's mind whether he were a real author or part of the future history, like Rhysling, we should so link. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:41, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: In any case Joel discusses the artist Alex Grey and the musician Colin MacDonald in the book. is misleading; it implies that they come up in dialogue, rather than  the consistent narrative voice of the entire novel. One might as well say that Joel discusses the Sheffield. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:41, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Hm, how about "Joel is influenced by the works of artist Alex Grey and musician Colin MacDonald, which are discussed in the text of the novel."?--Wehwalt (talk) 21:43, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Read WP:FICTION. If this were part of the plot summary, there would be a reason to phrase this as in-universe, but why here? It makes the reader click to see that they are not part of the Future History, which is the only real point here. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:51, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

text: I'm not sure. He's not Colin MacDonald or Colin MacDonald (musician) (who probably would be deleted), but his website has non-trivial media coverage, and Variable Star is itself a claim to notability. (My interest here is having read the novel, and trying to find which references Spider did invent; what one reader has done, others will do.) Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:25, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe when I get some time and feel like it I will take a shot at it.  However, is the language otherwise acceptable?--Wehwalt (talk) 22:30, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Tweaking to saxophonist; he appears to be a one-instrument guy, and Colin MacDonald (saxophonist) may be the best title for the page if you write it. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:36, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Might be good to link to saxophone; otherwise good.  I need to review WP:MUSIC before I start playing in that band.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:37, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Go ahead, if you like. I wouldn't link so common a word; and if I did, it would be the mention in the plot summary, but I won't revert. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:46, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Alex Grey and Colin MacDonald

message: In Starman Jones the starship is propelled by "Horst-Conrad Impellers", and in Variable Star it is at least implied that the drive used on the Sheffield and other starships was owned if not invented by the Conrad family. Should this be mentioned as another reference? 129.42.208.186 (talk) 23:46, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure, nice catch.  I guess we missed that one.  Spider was really throwing in the kitchen sink, wasn't he?--Wehwalt (talk) 00:21, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conrad 

message: Is anyone else concerned that the Connections section is primarily original research? These connections between VS and other real and fictional worlds appear to be made by editors, not reliable sources. Thoughts? The article will be much improved if we could add validity to these "connections." Jim Dunning | talk 23:05, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I just found this page and came to this talk page to note the same thing. The whole section is WP:OR and should probably be removed. Ashmoo (talk) 11:50, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Ten years later - and I was thinking the same thing. -- Beardo (talk) 02:02, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Connections section is Original Research? 

message: Cold sleep (of an art) is possible in Methuselah's Children, but not in Variable Star. 144.200.0.163 (talk) 12:38, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: So what ? This is not supposed to be set in the same future as Methuselah's Children. -- Beardo (talk) 02:10, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible discrepancy