Talk:John Calvin

message: Should the "Securing the Reformation" section be named something else for neutral POV? Markewilliams (talk) 16:19, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The article about Wurttemberg is about securing the reformation from the Roman Catholic Church. That is very different from Securing the Reformation from competing reformation thinkers, which is how it is used in the Calvin article.Markewilliams (talk) 05:36, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Am I correct in saying that all of the Users who describe themselves as Presbyterian or Calvinist on their User pages have voted to keep the subheading and all of those (all two of us) who are not Calvinist want it changed for an NPOV? I am considering posting this on the NPOV board.Markewilliams (talk) 13:37, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: You're on very dangerous ground here. Firstly, I identify myself as a Calvinist on my user page - the other editors are members of the Calvinism WikiProject, but that's not the same thing. (Not all who belong to Wikipedia:WikiProject Pseudoscience identify themselves as pseudoscientists.) Secondly, although I have a bias on this, please don't assume I am pushing my agenda. Thirdly, beware of forum shopping if you don't get the result that you like. StAnselm (talk) 19:23, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't mean anything mean. All I meant was that I was frustrated by not hearing from people outside of the Presbyterian/Calvinist group. All the users in favor of "keep" (up until today) have identified themselves specifically on their User pages as Calvinist OR have stated specifically that they are Presbyterian on their User pages. (I can provide you with URLs if you would like them.) There's nothing bad about that. I'm sure you can see my point that I want more outside viewpoints of people who are not Calvinist or Presbyterian. Everyone wants disinterested parties to view their disagreements. The reason I asked the question is because this is the first dispute I have been in in my 9 years on Wikipedia, and I thought that I had read the next step was to ask for an NPOV. If that is not the case then please let me know. Markewilliams (talk) 01:30, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair enough. My jaw dropped at the thought of being on Wikipedi for nine years without a dispute but then I saw that I've done less than 1000 edits in that time. Anyway, it's great to see you editing a bit more. StAnselm (talk) 01:49, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Markewilliams, as I said before, I think it would be just fine to have a heading on the Luther or Zwingli (or Knox, or Farel, or Melenchton, or Beza, or any other reformer) page that used this language. The reason is, as a person who has studied the reformation extensively and holds a degree in Church History, that each in their own way they did secure the reformation. Luther secured it by aligning himself with the German nobility. Zwingli in his own way did the same in his country. The fact that their actions secured the reformation does not take away from the fact that Calvin's did also. And the fact remains that we do not know what would have happened if Calvin had not been in the picture. Isn't is possible that Sadaleto might have convinced the leaders of Geneva to return to Roman practice? What we know is that Calvin's response to Sadaleto and his leadership in Geneva directly resulted in Protestant Christianity remaining the norm in Switzerland. Would someone else have stepped in and secured it if he hadn't? Possibly, but we don't know. ReformedArsenal (talk) 12:08, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Almost everyone agrees with the facts: Calvin took over Geneva, and had a major impact on the Reformation. No-one agrees that he "Secured" the Reformation. Catholics don't agree, most protestants don't agree, Jehovah's Witnesses, the Spiritueles, the Humanists, the Unitarians, the Jesus Only pentecostals, Jewish people, atheists, the Arminians, the Methodists, none of these people would agree that Calvin "secured" the Reformation. In fact, most of them might agree that Calvin "Insecured" the Reformation. The subheading goes beyond facts and introduces two viewpoints that are not neutral. And once a non-Calvinist reading this article sees the subheading he/she realizes the agenda: to promote the fact that Calvin "saved the Reformation", and why other portions of the article are written the way they are--to promote the agenda. (At least 3 people in the talk section [see also "FA status"] have noticed that the article sounds odd, or as if it was written by Calvin fans.) Markewilliams (talk) 15:48, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Most catholics would place the blame for the Reformation on Calvin and Luther equally. In that sense, yes they view Calvin (along with Luther) as the primary cause of the persistence of the Reformation. Keep your head in the sand more if you like, but that's just the way it is. ReformedArsenal (talk) 18:02, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, Catholics would agree that Calvin was the #2 Reformer, but Catholics would not say Calvin "secured" the Reformation. Markewilliams (talk) 14:44, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

text: Imagine you are warming yourself at a campfire with a group of Calvin fans, trading stories. I come over to your campfire and invite you to come over to another campfire and tell the story of Calvin. You gladly come over and as you tell the story of Calvin, everyone around the campfire listens closely because Calvin is an important figure to them. They agree with everything that you say until you come to the point where you say Calvin "Secured" the Reformation. They argue with you. You tell them that Calvin won, therefore the Calvinists are the ones who get to sum up the story. They say, no, their party is the correct party and Calvin is an evil figure in their history. You say that Calvin won the battle, and that they cannot hide their heads in the sand any longer. They say they agree that Calvin won at one time, and his teachings became very powerful, but they would never sum up his power as "Securing" anything; destroying, triumphing over the correct truth, yes, but not "securing" anything, as if he made something safe. You are disgusted and you leave. I follow you, and ask you to come tell your story to a third campfire. You hesitate…Markewilliams (talk) 04:16, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  While your little story about the campfires is quaint, I'd still like you to provide a shred of historical evidence that shows that Calvin's work in Geneva didn't secure the Reformation... not that he didn't do it single-handedly, none of us are asserting that... but that his work can not properly be said to have been instrumental in securing the  Reformation. ReformedArsenal (talk) 18:19, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Non sequitur? Markewilliams (talk) 01:58, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

text: I believe KC is the third editor to object to those two lines. Is that enough consensus to delete them? Markewilliams (talk) 14:34, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe he recommended they be rewritten, not deleted. --JFH (talk) 16:57, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I suggest two sentences be rewritten to: "On 16 May, having lost the election, the Spiritueles and Patriots were intercepted on their way to burn down a house full of French refugees by the syndic Henri Aulbert, carrying his baton of office."  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Markewilliams (talk • contribs) 15:37, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: RfC: "Securing the Reformation" heading

message: Did the article receive that status in it's current form? Seems written by a Calvin-fan (if there is such a thing) It's hardly a neutral account, as far as I can judge from reading two sections.
*The libertines continued their opposition, taking opportunities to stir up discontent, to insult the ministers, and to defy the authority of the Consistory. 
*The libertines allowed the trial to drag on in an attempt to harass Calvin. 
So what, some people defied the authority of the Taliban. They had laws against dancing too. It's not a subject I'm interested in, landed here by accident, but thought I'd mention it, the general tone seems inappropriate for an FA article. I'll return to science now, bye 84.197.178.75 (talk) 21:31, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, the article still sounds like it is written by a Calvin-fan, even after the two sentences pointed out above have been removed. Note this heading:
*"Securing the Reformation (1553–1555)"  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Markewilliams (talk • contribs) 17:56, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  FA status? 

message: Regular editors of this article should note that user Balaster32 is inserting information on Michael Servetus that was considered as fringe research by a dispute resolution on this topic. According to Wikipedia policies, fringe research should not be given undue weight in an article which may lead to unwarranted promoting, particularly when they pretend to replace what is considered mainstream. --Jdemarcos (talk) 20:57, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Fringe research can be considered by wikipedia policies,  on  the new works section and  the "identity of Servetus" research, not the  Jewish connexion, accepted by the Hebrew University in 1999. The dispute says nothing about it. It was noted the fact of false statements in De Trie, between the third and second letter, but it was not said   here that "Servetus" could be a pseudonym, which is indeed another theory, but one  we did not refer to.--Balaster32 (talk) 21:22, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Servetus' mother indeed descended from a Jewish converso family. That is not questionable. I wonder why three quotations of three works of the same scholar are needed to confirm this. One citation to relevant peer-reviewed research should be enough. OTOH you quote a Mr. "Lancaster" who is the author of a book published by "Revoeder Hebr.Press". I have been trying to confirm this but the formatting of the reference is defective, and Google provides no clear results, either about the author or about the publishing house. Could you be more specific, and fix the reference for easier confirmation of the secondary sources you are using? This is to confirm that sources are reliable and can be verified. Thank you. --Jdemarcos (talk) 15:13, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fringe research 

message: Why are Calvin's teachings presented in the present tense? I believe Wiki style is to put everything in the past tense once someone has died. Markewilliams (talk) 08:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Present tense is standard in Wikipedia – for example this passage from the article on Martin Luther: "Luther reviews and reaffirms, on the one hand, what has been called ...." Rjensen (talk) 09:18, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

text: Are you talking about the parts about the Institutes? I don't know if there's anything in the MOS, but it is common to use the present tense when describing written work, because the work still says it. So we have "Calvin defined a sacrament as an earthly sign..." in one part, because there is no reference to a written work, and "In the third book, Calvin describes...", because we're talking about what the Institutes still says. The Luther quote also refers to his writings.  --JFHutson (talk) 23:06, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

text: I mean it is common (and correct) in English. Do you have something from the MOS to the contrary? --JFHutson (talk) 23:58, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

text: That just means we say he was rather than is, for example, a theologian. It has no applicability to actions (such as writing or teaching), for which we always use the past tense. In this example, however, the subject is not Calvin but the Institutes. I don't think the wiki MOS addresses this but we (as in English-speakers) refer to writings in the present tense. --JFHutson (talk) 00:34, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Ideas do not die with their creators, they still have an existence in the world of Mankind. Shearonink (talk) 02:38, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Calvin believed and taught and said, but he no longer says, believes or teaches, he hasn't for a long time. I just want the article to abide by the MOS or for the MOS to be changed. The article about Aristotle is the same, and it is messy because it flipflops back and forth between present and past tense.— Preceding unsigned comment added byMarkewilliams (talk • contribs) 16:17, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: We write that way because scholars write that way.  We use past tense when talking about the guy himself, while we use present tense when talking about his writings.  It's basically a shorthand for saying "Calvin's writings teach...", "Calvin's writings include a belief in...", "Calvin's writings say...".  The point of the MOS bit is that we should say "Calvin was a theologian" and not "Calvin is a theologian".  Nyttend (talk) 00:49, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why are Calvin's teachings presented in the present tense? 

message: By far, Calvin's most controversial doctrine was double predestination, and I can see why someone would want to soften that controversy by bringing famous theologians in to agree with him, but Luther is not someone who agreed with predestination the way Calvin did. If someone thinks he did agree with Calvin, they need to provide a citation. Granted this article only says that Luther agreed with Augustine, but the mention of Luther's name is to soften the criticisms of Calvin's double predestination, and leaves the unaware reader with the impression that Luther and Calvin were buds when it came to predestination.Markewilliams (talk) 22:17, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The issue you bring up is subtle and was not a controversy engaged in between these theologians, nor a particularly prominent part of Calvin's theology. The article has a very short and modest statement in an already bloated theology section. --JFHutson (talk) 23:30, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Definitely not subtle. I don't know any theologians today who believe God predestines people to hell before they are born. Yet Calvin's theory of predestination demands that conclusion. Many people have pointed that out and criticized Calvin and Calvinism for this doctrine, and in defense, someone has inserted into the article that Luther agreed with him. Luther did not agree with him. It needs to be removed.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Markewilliams (talk • contribs) 17:52, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: This quote by Parker shows that almost no-one agreed with Calvin on double predestination: Parker p 243:"LIke Luther, Calvin belongs to the Augustinian tradition, which explains his insistence on the corruption of human nature, the ineffectiveness of works for salvation, and justification sola gratia and sola fide. It is in this context that we must situate his concept of dual predestination. However, Calvin goes much further in this area than the Augustinian tradition, as represented, for example, by Thomas Aquinas, for he holds not only that some are predestined for salvation while others are cast aside (the "outcast") but also that predestination to damnation is a deliberate act of divine sovereignty. Such an idea of God obviously poses a problem, from which have arisen many conflicts in Reformed theology up to and including the recapitulation of the entire question by Barth (KD II/2)…" So any efforts to make Calvin sound like a centrist on predestination by adding Luther's name, needs to be removed, or qualified.Markewilliams (talk) 15:17, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm confused. In which book by Parker are you finding that? --JFH (talk) 16:01, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: For the record, the quote was not from Parker but an Alasdair Heron in an encylopedia. The statement is probably fine, but I'd like to find a better source at some point since this is such an otherwise well-sourced article. --JFH (talk) 16:28, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Did Luther believe in double predestination? 

message: According to WP:CAT and WP:DEFINING, Categories are to be based on "defining characteristics," which "reliable sources commonly and consistently define the subject as having." I am not aware of any source defining Calvin as a saint in any denomination. It's trivial and isn't even mentioned in the article for this reason. --JFH (talk) 20:12, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Calvin is listed in the Renewers of the Church and Calendar of saints (Church of England), so I'm sure there must be plenty of sources mentioning these things. I think it ought to be in the article, even if such designations might make Calvin turn in his (unmarked) grave. StAnselm (talk) 21:57, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree, but the person adding it back needs to take the time to research the issue and provide adequate citations, until then I think the categorizations need to stay out. ReformedArsenal (talk) 22:01, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The question is not whether it is verifiable, but whether it is defining. Per WP:DEFINING, "if the characteristic would not be appropriate to mention in the lead portion of an article, it is probably not defining." Though I do not contest that Calvin is a saint in certain churches, I do not think if I were to describe who he is at a definition level, that I would mention him being a saint. In fact, it's trivial and I don't think the information belongs in the article at all, but that's a separate discussion. --JFH (talk) 22:10, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  Who decides what is defining and what is not? ReformedArsenal (talk) 23:03, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

text: Anyway, the reference for the Church of England calendar is here. StAnselm (talk) 23:10, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedians do, based on reliable sources and the guidelines. This one seems like a pretty obvious case. I'd be pretty confident that you will not even find the fact that John Calvin is a saint in any biography of John Calvin. --JFH (talk) 15:00, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, because John Calvin Biographies are about the life of John Calvin. He was made a Saint well after he died. This article is about John Calvin, and is not exclusively biographical. ReformedArsenal (talk) 15:33, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Information beyond a person's life is routinely included in biographies if it is considered relevant to the subject of the person himself. The "Legacy" section includes several ways in which Calvin influenced history, and it is sourced to Calvin biographies. Being a saint, on the other hand, is not considered relevant to the subject of Calvin by any Calvin biographer. If we were talking about, say St. Anselm (the real one), that would be a different story. --JFH (talk) 15:50, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I guess, by analogy, we might mention Martin Luther King Jr. There is one sentence in his article: "King is remembered as a martyr by the Episcopal Church in the United States of America (feast day April 4) and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (feast day January 15)." See also Charles Wesley#Legacy and Dietrich Bonhoeffer#Theological legacy. StAnselm (talk) 21:26, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Like I said, the question of inclusion of these Protestant beatifications in the article is a separate question (on which I am opposed). For categorization, none of those are in the leads and it would be absurd to say that any of those people are defined by their Episcopal/Lutheran saintliness, and John Calvin even moreso. --JFH (talk) 21:39, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: With all the examples I gave, they are categorized as well. In fact, that's how I found them. StAnselm (talk) 21:45, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Why are you so opposed to this JFH? ReformedArsenal (talk) 22:55, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

text: Because he is an Anglican saint... ReformedArsenal (talk) 20:18, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I've explained why that doesn't really matter and haven't gotten a good response, besides that other pages do it. --JFH (talk) 20:43, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: It sounds like we may need an RfC on both these issues (inclusion in the article and categorization). StAnselm (talk) 21:16, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  JHF, can you point to a single person whose life IS defined by the fact that they are an Anglican Saint? If not, then perhaps you should go after the category itself, rather than a single instance of someone being categorized in such a way. ReformedArsenal (talk) 22:39, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I would think notable Anglicans, especially those who are not terribly notable outside of Anglicanism would be good candidates. Perusing the list at Saints in Anglicanism I found Lancelot Andrewes. --JFH (talk) 22:51, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  But even those people could not be said to be DEFINED by those things during their lives, since one cannot obtain sainthood until after they die. ReformedArsenal (talk) 23:38, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure why that would follow. A person's influence extends beyond their life, including things that rise to the level of definingness. I think St. Anselm or Aquinas are good examples of obvious cases, and I think Andrewes is plausible. --JFH (talk) 00:55, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  So what would be required for someone to be defined by being an Anglican saint. I'm just trying to avoid us arbitrarily deciding that by defining some criteria. ReformedArsenal (talk) 01:54, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Please read WP:DEFINING. Is it common for sources to describe Calvin as an Anglican saint? Would it be appropriate to mention in the lead? --JFH (talk) 04:18, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Overcategorization 

message: There are two questions here. (1) Should the categories that are currently in the article (:Category:Anglican saints, :Category:Renewers of the church) be retained? (2) Should this information be presented in the article (which it currently isn't)? StAnselm (talk) 06:54, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: This is not the only guideline which is routinely ignored. You don't need to have an RfC to comply with existing guidelines. DEFINING has had recent discussions so I would think it represents consensus well. --JFH (talk) 20:37, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  Is the fact that he was born in 1509 defining? How about the fact that he was from Noyon? The fact that he is buried at Cimetiere des Rois? None of those things DEFINE him... why are those not on your chopping block? ReformedArsenal (talk) 00:51, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, except for his burial place. A person's birthplace and date are often the first things mentioned about them. --JFH (talk) 04:42, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting... because it's not in the lead... just because a birthplace is one of the first things mentioned, does not mean that it is defining. If you were to ask 100 Calvinists (even well educated ones) where Calvin was born, how many of them do you think would say "Noyon" without looking it up? For something that is defining, it sure seems trivial. ReformedArsenal (talk) 11:20, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: RfC: Including Anglican sainthood / Lutheran commemoration 

message: Pretty sure Calvin wasn't doing anything in 1930 with Roman Gladiators, and dint preform a musical with Will Ferrel.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.156.122.8 (talk) 23:23, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Someone has graffitied the introduction 

message: The Michael Servetus article states:
As Servetus was not a citizen of Geneva, and could only legally, at worst, be banished, the government, in an attempt to find some plausible excuse to disregard this legal reality, had consulted with other Swiss Reformed cantons (Zürich, Bern, Basel, Schaffhausen.) They universally favored his condemnation and suppression of his doctrine, but without saying how that should be accomplished.[32] Martin Luther had condemned his writing in strong terms[citation needed]. Servetus and Philip Melanchthon had strongly hostile views of each other. The party called the "Libertines", who were generally opposed to anything and everything John Calvin supported, were in this case strongly in favour of the execution of Servetus at the stake (while Calvin urged that he be beheaded instead). In fact, the council that condemned Servetus was presided over by Perrin (a Libertine) who ultimately on 24 October sentenced Servetus to death by burning for denying the Trinity and infant baptism.[33] When Calvin requested that Servetus be executed by decapitation as a traitor rather than by fire as a heretic, Farel, in a letter of 8 September, chided him for undue lenience.[34] The Geneva Council refused his request. On 27 October 1553 Servetus was burned at the stake just outside Geneva with what was believed to be the last copy of his book chained to his leg. Historians record his last words as: "Jesus, Son of the Eternal God, have mercy on me."[35]
This article states:
The libertines allowed the trial to drag on in an attempt to harass Calvin. The difficulty in using Servetus as a weapon against Calvin was that the heretical reputation of Servetus was widespread and most of the cities in Europe were observing and awaiting the outcome of the trial. This posed a dilemma for the libertines, so on 21 August the council decided to write to other Swiss cities for their opinions, thus mitigating their own responsibility for the final decision.
Clearly at least one of these articles are in error.  Either the Libertines were trying to "mitigating their own responsibility", or they were attempting "to find some plausible excuse to disregard" the legal reality, or there are multiple theories and we don't know which is true.
Interesting since the Trinity and infant baptism are pagan ideas. 174.4.163.53 (talk) 05:46, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conflicting "facts" in this article and the Michael Servetus article 

message: According to material archived in the talk page for Michael Servetus, Calvin's letters to the Marquis de Paet or Poet, though supposed to be originals, are not in Calvin's handwriting nor in that of any of his known amanuenses, are not in Calvin's distinctive literary style, and contain several serious and irreducible anachronisms.  I have therefore removed that paragraph.  Calvin's responsibility for Servetus' death, illegally contrived, can be established by other means. J S Ayer (talk) 18:18, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Calvin to the Marquis P. 

message: I have suppressed in the infobox the false assertion that Calvin died in « Geneva, Switzerland » . Calvin died in Geneva, but not in Switzerland. Geneva became part of Switzerland in 1815. In 1564 Geneva was an independent state, and had no borders, and no particularly friendly relationship, with the 13 cantons of Switzerland. Sapphorain (talk) 19:36, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Completely agree. StAnselm (talk) 08:06, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Geneva was not in Switzerland in 1564 

message: "Others have argued that Calvin was firmly within the anti-semitic camp.... Nevertheless, he was a covenant theologian and argued that the Jews are a rejected people who must embrace Jesus to re-enter the covenant." So essentially saying that Jews need Jesus as well gets you into the "Anti-Semitic" camp according to some scholars. 105.4.1.161 (talk) 23:19, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: We're reporting what people say. Argue sources not opinions/analysis. —DIYeditor (talk) 23:40, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Anti-Semitic" 

message: Even his fellow contemporaries seem to suggest so. The info is there so why not list so?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.5.226.48 (talk) 19:53, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: "You citey sourcey?" --Kansas Bear (talk) 04:06, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  John Calvin was a crypto-jew 

message: Where is this painting, and does anyone now attribute it to Hans Holbein the Younger?
From what I can see, our image omits a portion of the right side of the painting - most noticeably, there should be a similar curve to frame the portrait in each upper corner.  
Some sources suggest it was held by Hedwig Feirherr von Pölnitz, at .  
It was identified as depicting Calvin and attributed to Holbein by 
Jan Weerda in 1955.  
While the identification is still accepted, the attribution now seems incorect - see pages 19 and 257 here  and pages 448 and 488 here 
At best, I think we could say "formerly attributed to Holbein".  Does anyone else have a view?  Can anyone find a better image showing the whole painting, and confirm its location? 213.205.240.147 (talk) 08:04, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Holbein? 

message: He was a very acknowledged actor 74.102.106.102 (talk) 00:52, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. DannyS712 (talk) 01:21, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 15 January 2019 

message: Is there any source for the notion that Calvin declined to make a commentary on the book of revelation because he didn't understand it, and said as much? Shtove 21:58, 14 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revelation 

message: This section feels in need of more expansion concerning the specifics of Calvin's political involvement. In particular to reflect the recent work of Philip Benedict which uncovered archival evidence in the testimony of Gilles Trou which in combination with Calvin's letters confirmed finally his involvement in the Maligny Affair and Conspiracy of Amboise (Season of Conspiracy, Benedict, 2020 pg1-3)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sovietblobfish (talk • contribs) 20:06, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Expansion of Section of Calvin Involvement in French Politics 

message: This article is clearly biased. ‘Influence can’t be overstated’. This phrase alone has no place in an informative article. Suggesting someone is influential is obviously fine but from what I’ve read of this page; the author(s) are otherwise motivated. Nm6249 (talk) 01:59, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. The offending paragraph was, in fact, a recent addition. StAnselm (talk) 03:45, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bias 

message: Michael Servetus, a brilliant Spanish polymath who introduced the Islamic idea[54] of Pulmonary circulation to Europe That a Muslim discovered it (or gave the first known description) does not make it an "Islamic idea". Even the most devout believer would agree that this is something you find out by observation, not Quran studies.--95.223.86.16 (talk) 16:18, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Islamic idea" 

message: "He was a principal figure in the development of the system of Christian theology later called Calvinism, aspects of which include the doctrines of predestination and of the absolute sovereignty of God in salvation of the human soul from death and eternal damnation, in which doctrines Calvin was influenced by and elaborated upon the Augustinian and other Christian traditions." The very second sentence of the article is not only long-winded, but also difficult to understand. For example, "in which doctrines Calvin was influenced by and elaborated upon the Augustinian and other Christian traditions" is awkwardly phrased and possibly ungrammatical. 
A proposed rephrasing: "He was a principal figure in the development of the system of Christian theology later called Calvinism, including its doctrines of predestination and of God's absolute sovereignty in the salvation of the human soul from death and eternal damnation. Calvinist doctrines were influenced by and elaborated upon the Augustinian and other Christian traditions." GeneralPoxter (talk • contribs) 05:48, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, good thinking. I would say "the" salvation of the human soul. StAnselm (talk) 13:30, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, added. GeneralPoxter (talk • contribs) 15:06, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

text: All right, I've made the changes to the article. If anyone feels the change needs to be reverted/modified, we can continue discussion here. GeneralPoxter (talk • contribs) 15:11, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rephrasing of lede sentence 

message: Change section heading “libelous attacks by Catholics [plural]” to “disputed posthumous allegations”. Only one person is listed as making “attacks” (only one is explained at any length), not plural Catholics, and those anllegations appear to only have been denounced as libelous by one historian. A more accurate and neutral title would be “disputed posthumous allegations”. 2600:4040:40DB:100:691B:788A:A444:1109 (talk) 02:57, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.  Spintendo  23:13, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 31 December 2023