Talk:Videos and audio recordings of Osama bin Laden

message: I noticed the IntelCenter is the first link under the External Links section. I had tried contacting this company in the past about the legal basis for them selling and reproducing material (including OBL videos) for which they might not have copyright permission. Is this external link a blatant advertisement? Does Wikipedia consider them a reliable source?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.87.11.199 (talk) 22:58, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Intelcenter External Link

message: I can't seem to find it anywhere on the Internet.  Only transcripts.  Anyone know where the video is dated December 13, 2001?  The link mentioned to youtube cuts off the first part of the video.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.6.71.221 (talk) 05:07, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Where is the entire Osama "Confession" video?

message: Before I start to talk about my early conspiracy theories.. I remember that there were lots of still images from the different videos of Osama here in this article a long time ago. Were are they ??
The situation is the same regarding the main Osama article. I don't get it, there is Only one(1) very small picture of Mr. Bin Laden. Why oh why ? Like only a week ago or so there was not even one single picture of him in the main article. Are the feds involved ? If so, it's strongly against Wikipedias policy's.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Njuuton (talk • contribs) 07:55, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I cannot find what you are talking about in the article history. Can you point us there please? --boarders paradise (talk) 16:19, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Someone is removing pictures

message: should this be removed from the page as its not actually a video of bin laden, just a statement read by an al-jazeera announcer?
is there another page that this and other non-video statements can be moved to? if not, can one be created? (BTW the statement has had its authneticity questioned)
Default.XBE (talk) 17:06, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Remove September 16th 2001 "Video"

message: Commented out:
The TV magazine came to the conclusion that with the "new correct translation" there was no evidence left in the tape which would suggest that bin Laden had been aware of the attacks before they had been carried out. (in German)
It is a POV statement -- the alternate translation, assuming it is correct, does not address the core issue of the knowledge of the operational details in the lines attributed to bin Laden when watching the tape or reading the translation:
"But they were trained and we did not reveal the operation to them until they are there and just before they boarded the planes...then he said: Those who were trained to fly didn’t know the others. One group of people did not know the other group."
Moreover, citing Spiegel to assert the conclusion reached by Moniter, as opposed to the translators themselves is questionable, suggest citing the Moniter's transcript directly to assert the conclusion of the translators. Otherwise, this is an unsupported claim and the lines from the alternate translation quoted in the article above should simply stand on their own.
...
If anyone has looked at the side-by-side pictures of bin Laden and the fat, "confession" bin Laden, you can clearly see that they are two different people. The noses have different shapes and the hair-growth patterns of the beard around the mouth and nose are different. The "confession" bin Laden is obviously right-handed, unlike the real bin Laden. They say contradictory things. The real bin Laden is on record that he had no prior knowledge of 9-11 and disapproves of it. According to experts on the Arabic language, the "confession" bin Laden doesn't actually confess. An entire sentence was added to the English translation to imply prior knowledge.
:When I recently stumbled across this article, and other related ones, I noticed with great surprise that the very specific and widely known criticism of the Pentagon translation was not even mentioned.
On the source: Monitor is a first rate tv magazine in Germany's most important tv station, ARD. It is public tv, comparable maybe to PBS in the US. The views and analyses there are neither extreme nor have there ever been reports of misrepresentation of sources, fake news, and the like, like we occasionally hear from private tv stations. Klaus Bednarz is a widely known tv presenter and author of many books, mostly about Eastern Europe, where he was correspondent for a long time. Professor Rotter is THE authority on Arabism in Germany, among others he advises government agencies. The report on the mistranslation became well known and was widely discussed in Germany. Not so, apparently in the US, apart from the usual 9/11 skeptics sites and online forums like Democratic Underground. Craig Morris is an American journalist and translator with Telepolis, a well-known and very professional online magazine in Germany, and a book author (to be found at Amazon). He sent a summary of the tv report in English to ZNews' Michael Albert and a few others, and it can still be found at various places on the web.
References in the article:
:1. Guardian article mentioning dispute about authenticity
:2. The transcript of the mentioned Monitor report - in German
:3. Summary of the report by Craig Morris (notable author) in English - at Indymedia (to be found in other places, too)
:4. Der Spiegel article on the Monitor report - unfortunately only in German and not free
(I have also changed some of the wording in the first paragraph (it is just one tape that was found in Afghanistan, and it has never been shown or proven to be authentic) and in the part about Michael Rivero I deleted the unnecessary comment that Rivero's account is disputed).
Rkrichbaum 19:09, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Accuracy of Official Translation of December 13, 2001 Video

message: "Prison planet opinions are representative for the entire 9/11 movement" - I don't think so. Tom Harrison Talk 14:19, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, in any case, dont remove the critique section. --Striver 21:50, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Recent edit summary

message: Where on earth is the October 7, 2001 video of him broadcasted by al-Jazeera? why doesn't this article makes any mention of it?
:Better yet, where are all the videos before 2001? ----DanTD (talk) 14:30, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: The first video?

message: I'm not sure if merging these pages at this stage was a good idea, noting the following inconsistencies:
1. The original "Osama tapes" article discussed purported ObL statements from interviews, audio and video tapes in the context of "stated motives for terrorist attacks". It did not contain a timeline or even comprehensive list of the sources.
2. Someone added a short timeline which was deleted from 9/11 conspiracy theories. This timeline did not discuss grievances and motives, it was intended to shed some light on the authenticity issues.
3. The "Videos" article obviously was not about interviews and audio tapes, and included just one more comprehensive discussion, of the 2001 video with the flat nosed Osama.
I propose to rename the article, maybe "Statements from Osama bin Laden", start with "motives for attacks/jihad" - as far as references can be provided, proceed with a timeline (of all testimony combined) and include doubts and comments as to the authenticity of the documents within the timeline. For better overview, all documents should be listed with references at the end of the article. Rkrichbaum 01:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Regarding this mess

message: I think there is need for a comprehensive article about the public statements from Osama bin Laden. A link to conspiracy theories and "fake Osama" theories can do no harm, but the content of the messages is now inundated by all kind of noise. The conspiracy theorist should write an article on their own and not spoil the work of people who prefer to take the messages from Osama bin Laden serious. Otto 22:15, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Where this article should go about

message: Why is the original interview by Peter Bergen not listed? Especially as one can get it online from the US. govt, from the evidence exhibitions in the Moussaoui trial. --Storkk 14:12, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Bergen Video

message: This paragraph doesn't add anything. Many quotes of people who tell they don't know if bin Laden is alive are not informative and make no sense since the 2004 tape is from later date. Further there is a lot of repetition from the list of tapes. I propose to delete the whole paragraph. Otto 07:10, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Timeline and contradictions

message: It would be very helpful to get some images up here  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.155.207.48 (talk) 22:36, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Images

message: Remember the tubby black Osama?  The blatantly, obviously fake Osama?  The Dec 13 2001 video's section of the article used to mention this odd incongruity but doesn't any more.
Sukiari 00:59, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: He wasn't fat. He was kneeling down. Plus, the so-called "fake Osama" was actually a crappy photshop job by some stupid 9/11 Denialist website. ----DanTD (talk) 14:33, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That's WP:OR so not grounds for exclusion. Heres a mainstream news article from a RS dated September 11, 2009:Has Osama Bin Laden been dead for seven years - and are the U.S. and Britain covering it up to continue war on terror? Incredibly, this is the breathtaking theory that is gaining credence among political commentators, respected academics and even terror experts.This article should be incorporated in the page and mention is probably even relevant in the lead. Wayne (talk) 07:38, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, please! That article has people commenting on the phony kidney dialysis stories, which were already disproven years ago. Two blurry images of OBL, one of which is right next to the other, and this writer wants the world to think it's fake? How stupid do they think we are? And how stupid has the Daily Mail gotten if they're going to publish dreck like this? ----DanTD (talk) 15:06, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Way to express your neutrality. If you had bothered to read the article you would notice it makes no claims of it's own regarding fakery and even states such claims could be another conspiracy theory. But the main thrust of the article is pointing out that growing support for such claims and the lack of evidence refuting them is enough to make them worthy of examination. A NPOV position that is a credit to a conservative newspaper. On the other hand what sources do you have supporting your claim of phony kidney dialysis? According to the CIA Osama was on one before 911 when they personally visited him in a Dubai hospital. It was reported in 2000 (BTW that is again before 911 so I can see no motive to make a false claim) that Osama had bought a portable kidney dialysis machine. TIME magazine reported on another CIA report that concluded that Osama could not survive without one. In 2002, a White House spokeperson reported that a CIA report he was given said that Osama was still alive but needed dialysis every three days. An ABC article in 2007 stated He probably has his own Kidney Dialysis Machine. And most recently, in February 2009 an attempt at geographic profiling was made to help identify general regions where investigators should search for Osama. One of the parameters was that the area must have electricity to power his kidney dialysis machine. Would academics include this in the parameters if it had been disproven years ago? In fact several mainstream newspapers mention the machine in 2009 articles about Osama and despite a search I can't find a RS disputing it. If you are going to claim a RS is publishing dreck then you need to prove your case. Wayne (talk) 13:58, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You can't pretend to be neutral on something that's absolute. First, Al-Qaida sympathizers have said that he wasn't on kidney dialysis, and think that the CIA made that up about him to make him look weak. Second, the idea that the CIA visited him in a hospital in Dubai is pure conspiracy freak mythology. In fact in November 2001, Osama himself said that his kidneys were fine, and that he never met anybody from the CIA. Third, even if he were dead, it wouldn't automatically kill Al-Qaida as an organization, because it was already a large stateless global terrorist network back in the 1990's. If there are any reporters sticking to that kidney dialysis story now, it's because they haven't got the message that it was a rumor, just like you haven't. ----DanTD (talk) 16:19, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Why has all mention of fat black guy Osama been censored?

message: Reverted the edit of Wowest who is pressing his own POV addition that of all video(?) tapes the authenticity is seriously questioned, which is obviously nonsense. The only mentioned Swiss source (IDIAP) is indecisive. Most of the tapes are not questioned at all. In the contrary in a number of cases it is seen as likely that it is bin Ladens voice. Otto (talk) 08:25, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: All the tapes are questioned by some one some where. The problem is that audio is extremely easy to fake. In fact the technology is advanced enough that there is no way to determine authenticity from audio alone. The question we should be asking is why do al Qaeda not use video and pictures taken after 2001? Can they not afford a camera? Has bin Laden developed a phobia about having his picture taken? Wayne (talk) 13:21, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Authenticity of the audio tapes

message: The image :File:Bin laden 12 27a.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here.  In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page.  Please check
:* That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
:* That this article is linked to from the image description page.
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --20:16, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Image copyright problem with File:Bin laden 12 27a.jpg

message: There has been many 100% authentic Bin Laden press conferences, video tapes, and audio tapes recorded and aired before the world trade center collapse in 2001. I think we should address the issue that none of them are present here, or almost anywhere on the web. These tapes would be much more informative, if correctly translated, than any of these supposed and very sketchy at best tapes available now. They would be a very beneficial to this site and a study of Bin Laden, but they are missing. Please help bring these tapes, info, links to watch, translations, and discussions to this very lacking database of Osama Bin Laden's "voice" to the people. There was a time before war that he very much wanted to be heard, but now were is it all?
Onetruelove88 (talk) 19:40, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Pre 9/11 Osama press conferences

message: A Rubin:  do you have some concerns with a See Also section? --Noleander (talk) 21:40, 3 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This is from Videos_of_Osama_bin_Laden#October_29.2C_2004: "According to the English translation distributed by the BBC and other media outlets, he tells viewers he personally directed the 19 hijackers,[13] and describes his motivation." AzureFury  (talk | contribs) 07:50, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I have many concerns with tangentially related "See also" sections, where the relationship is the assertion of one reviewer and/or one editor.  This one now seems OK.  — Arthur Rubin  (talk) 15:20, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: A fair concern, I've seen them grow out of control on many articles. AzureFury  (talk | contribs) 16:32, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  See also section? 

message: of course you can use both hands to drink.
also all three man in the video appear to wear WEEDING ring.any source (from imam) about Muslim not allowed to wear gold rings even when they are wedding rings?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.35.249.125 (talk) 10:17, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: this is from Muslim customs : using right hand to eat and drink.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.35.249.125 (talk) 10:40, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  please remove that bs about righty lefty and no credible source about "forbidden ring" 

message: As mentioned elsewhere on Wikipedia, al-Qaeda released a video on 9/7 2006 which apparently shows OBL together with Ramzi bin al-Shibh and two 9/11 hijackers. The list fails to mention it. -- 131.188.24.20 (talk) 18:41, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  September 7, 2006 video missing in list 

message: This article states in a video dated June 9, 2009, Osama bin Laden "made a statement against President Barack Obama." That's all it says about that. Nothing else. The source for this information is blank. What was the specific statement made against President Obama? Inquiring minds want to know.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.64.16.121 (talk) 18:49, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Obama  

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