Talk:David Pawson

message: Recently (October 2007) someone has tagged this article, claiming "This article is far too partial and doesn't respect the NPOV guidelines". In fact I toned it down a few months ago. (I should add that DP is my favourite bible teacher.) I am not the main writer of the article in its present form - someone gave it a major upgrade several months ago - but I have made quite a few minor changes to it since. I'll make some more and perhaps the person who added the tag could then comment if he or she still finds it unacceptable, giving examples of where - AG, Stockport, UK.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.178.241.182 (talk) 19:38, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tagged 

message: This list reads more like a library catalogue than part of an encyclopaedia entry about their author. I've deleted some entries from the list of books which have been proposed but never published (absence of authentic ISBN is a clue), or which are repeat editions - AG, Stockport, UK.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.178.80.3 (talk) 21:42, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: List of Books and Tapes

message: I have tagged the article as unsourced and not written in a neutral tone. It appears that the article is written by uncritical supporters of Pawson. For example, take the opening paragraph: 
"J. David Pawson (born 1930) is a prominent contemporary Bible teacher based in Great Britain. He is known for accepting the text as the authoritative word of God while explaining its meaning and context. Because he follows the teaching of Scripture where it clashes with church tradition, he is often controversial, although he is generally respected within the church for his conviction.". 
This is entirely unsourced. Who says he "is know for accepting the text as the authoritative word of God". What source says he is "controversial". What source says he is "generally respected within the church"? All of these statements need specific, independent, published sources.
Problems of neutrality arise when the article states that Pawson "is known for accepting the text as the authoritative word of God...". This statement is clearly written in agreement with Pawson's own interpretation of the Bible. It is not suitable for an encyclopedia entry, which should not make implicit judgments about the inherent truth of the Bible, nor about one preacher's particular interpretation of it. If this statement were suitably sourced, it should be re-written along the lines of "Pawson teaches that the Bible is the authoritative word of God..."
Much of the article by rights ought to be deleted under WP:BLP since it is unsourced. I urge interested editors to improve the article and add specific sources to it soon. Thanks, Gwernol 11:33, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Dear Gwernol: I wrote "Pawson is known for accepting the text as the authoritative word of God" because his stance is well known within the church (which is the main place where he is known), both to Christians who agree with Pawson's theology and those who disagree with it. Pawson says frequently within his own writings, detailed in the article, that this is his position, and one critic (quoted in "Leadership is Male") grumbles about exactly this. Also, Pawson is "controversial" because of the subjects he has tackled. Male (church) leadership, paedobaptism, understanding of hell, Calvinism vs Arminianism ("free will"), eschatology, Islam, Israel are all very well known to be controversial subjects within the church (and several of them beyond it), upon which there is a wide difference in understanding between different theological sectors. Pawson's books on each of these are referred to in the article. And he is respected within the church, even by his opponents, as a debater who takes pains to anchor his arguments to scripture - see the written debate with Buchanan about paedobaptism, and the conversations with other Christians he reports in his Islam book, for instance. So the article can be verified from Pawson's own writings, including his autobiography, all of which are covered in the article itself. I have modified the first paragraph to address your concerns, and I hope you no longer think that "Much of the article... ought to be deleted... since it is unsourced." - AG, Stockport, UK.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.53.69.150 (talk) 00:16, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

text: I *have* checked it for accuracy (I am not its principal author but have edited it extensively), and a good deal of the info comes from Pawson's published autobiography or his other writings; I detailed these sources in my preceding comment. Please engage with it - AG, Stockport, UK.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.53.69.150 (talk) 22:57, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unsourced and not neutral in tone 

message: I am certainly not a David Pawson fan but I remember the book "Leadership is Male" doing the rounds and I wanted to find out if I'd remembered write that he wrote a book about curses and language, which it seems from this article he did not. So even though the article is not written in a neutral tone it has been very useful to me, thank you authors. It is only natural that people who are enthusiastic about the subject should be the ones who hold a large and useful repository of facts on the subject, and if anyone has any other opposing facts they can always add them too. Perhaps I should add that as a feminist I found Pawson and Elizabeth Elliot's teaching bizarre and unhelpful since I believe that women are treated very unfairly in modern society and should be treated as equals with equal rights to leadership roles etc- which is almost too obvious to have to state.- Anna Martin  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.7.30.230 (talk) 05:41, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not aware of any book by David Pawson about curses and language (and I know his work fairly well); maybe another Christian with the same initials, Derek Prince? Pawson's book "Leadership is Male" argues from the Bible. It is not aimed at non-Christians, although in tapes he has made it clear that he believes the usurpation of male authority (which should be wielded lovingly, not cruelly) will have a bad effect on a society  - AG, Stockport, UK.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.53.69.150 (talk) 21:39, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

text: Looks OK to me; do you know how to go about getting the non-neutrality tag lifted? (I edit quite a bit on Wikipedia but being a non-conformist have never joined up...) You are presumably a relative of JDP? - AG, Stockport, UK  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.53.69.150 (talk) 18:52, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

text: I have removed the POV tag because I believe that the text is now much closer to rewuired NPOV standards  -  any further issues will hopefully be limited to specific statements rather than overall tone.  I have also removed the Autobiography tag for similar reasons. (Incidentally, I happen to know that the subject - David Pawson - is not the author of any of the material as he does not use the Internet at all!). In answer to the previous contributor: yes, I am a relative -  though just to be clear to anyone else reading, I was not the author of any of the removed material.Rpawson (talk) 08:38, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Helpful biography 

message: I just removed a sentence 'for readers of blah blah who seek to yadda yadda, it is very welcome.'
Hi kids: this is wikipedia. Not 'Promote Mr. Godbabble Page'
You want to promote Captain Blabs-On-God? Get your own page.
--24.245.4.62 (talk) 19:29, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  You want to strut your sarcasm because you think you're clever?  Get your own page.  Stick to civil discussion.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.21.49.179 (talk) 18:12, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  'It is Welcome' 

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thread_title:  External links modified