Talk:Norse–Gaels

message: hey guys I'm pretty sure the word ljótr (modern icelandic ljótur) means light and not ugly. it is a common misconception because the modern icelandic ljótur does mean ugly but I heard around (the way you do) that it used to mean light, as in pale, fair, light hair etc.. I didn't edit the main page because I don't have sources and don't feel like doing the work..
:I haven't seen an etymology for the surname giving anything other than "ugly". Here's an easy-to-search English/Old Norse dictionary hosted at a York University website. It gives ljótr as "ugly", ljós as "light", and ljóss for "bright". A couple days ago i came across a similar surname - Corlett - which is supposed to be composed of Thor and ljótr/liótr. I found two different takes on the meaning - "Thor-bright" and "Thor-people".--Celtus (talk) 11:26, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It means ugly in Faroese, so it most likely does so here. FunkMonk (talk) 21:54, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: ljótr

message: As great as the Norse-Gaels are (yes we do still exist!) to say "Gaelicized Scandinavians dominated the Irish Sea region until the Norman era of the twelfth century, founding long-lasting kingdoms, such as YORK" is a bit of a strange statement as Ragnall I Ivarsson did not found York (Jórvík), nor was he the first Norse ruler.  Maybe it should give a list of Kingdoms founded by the Norse-Gaels and then state that Norse-Gaels ruled the Norse kingdom at Jórvík. Sigurd Dragon Slayer (talk) 12:31, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: York?

message: What on earth is going on here? For information, here is the section that IP Address keeps trying to insert:
*The specific region Norse-Gaels settled in Northern England was once all of one piece and after the Norman Conquest called Richmondshire, the land which was composed of the Irish Sea's coast from the River Ribble (although some went to Cheshire) and throughout Cumbria into the Yorkshire Dales.  Toponymy is often used to distinguish between these origins and Danish colonisation from the North Sea coast (see Danelaw).  Although the Norwegian element is undisputed, the Celtic side is more Brythonic by tradition and continues to be an English subculture throughout the region.  What he calls the "Quaker" North Midlands is discussed at depth in David Hackett Fischer's Albion's Seed, heavily overlapping the "Scotch-Irish" cultural area of North Britain for all intents and purposes.  Professor Fischer expounds upon the Norse surnames and villages of the Quakers (e.g. Margaret Fell) who were poor dalesmen and lived in compact, stone-built homes (much as in Ireland and the Scottish Western Isles across the water).  Quaker historian Hugh Barbour believes there were innate differences between the locals and their Norman overlords for many centuries, that the commoners were Evangelical while their landlords were Recusant.  Barbour maintains that the Norman system of feudal manors was always resented, compared to the preferred Norse method of "moots".  These people wore a style of clothing called "hodden grey" and they raised sheep, contibuting much to the industrial development throughout the North of England.
Eh? I just cannot make head nor tail of it. The above contribution is impenetrable, poorly written, and has every appearance of being plain pants (not helped by the bizarre comments left by the writer on various Talk pages). Is the User perhaps confusing "Norse-Gaels" with the "Vikings" for which he is currently studying for his school project? A striking example is the confusion between the terms Brythonnic, Celtic and Gael - apparently all mean the same thing to the writer. --Mais oui! 12:01, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gobbledegook 

message: Well, I haven't defended that version since I was blocked for the 3RR.  I simplified it and made the issues discussed, much easier for the casual reader.  Your simplistic assumptions about my person are way out of order.  Many books talk about the "Norsemen from Ireland" who settled on the highlands of Northern England and also, the joint attacks of Irish-Norse with Harold Godwinson's sons who attempted the dislodging of the Normans in 1069-1070.  There is a weird thing here, that Calgacus is very Cumbrian-centric or Celto-centric.  If it isn't Cumbria specifically, he goes apeshit at the mention of Norse-Gaels in English history.  Tell that to the archaeologists!  IP Address 19:06, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well it seemed reasonable to me before I edited anything, so hopefully our little disagreements can be forgotten. This needs expanded, and the Kings of Dublin article was tagged for cleanup today, so it too needs TLC. Perhaps the Norwegian translator of Scotland in the High Middle Ages Finn Bjo will write something for the Bokmål WP that we can ask him to translate, or perhaps someone already has. Shoulders of giants and all that. Viking age articles in general need brushing up, but what doesn't ? Anyway, that's my 2 eurocents. Back to watching TV and writing Domnall mac Áedo. Angus McLellan  (Talk) 20:23, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I completely agree.  IP Address 20:37, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Revised version

message: I think that the surname Doyle, very common in Co Wexford, originally meant "black foreigner" referring to ferocious Norse invaders. Millbanks (talk) 09:12, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Names

message: Flag	Date	Use                             	Description
    	    	Standard of the Duke of Rothesay	Banner of the Duke's Arms, 1st and 4th quarters representing the title of Great Steward of Scotland, the 2nd and 3rd quarters representing the title of Lord of the Isles. In the centre is an inescutcheon, of the arms of the heir apparent to the King of Scotland
Flag	Date	Use             	Description
    	    	Flag of Orkney  	A blue Nordic cross outlined in yellow on a red field
    	    	Flag of Shetland	A white Nordic cross on a light blue field
    	    	Flag of Barra   	A white Nordic Cross on a green field
    	    	Flag of Lewis   	The blue and white stripes are said to represent the seven traditional areas of Lewis. In the fly is a white Nordic Cross on a red field
What, you're not thinking of putting them on the article? - Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 21:05, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've cast aside my flippancy.  I leave this to a group decision.  IP Address 21:55, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

text: The Barra and Lewis flags are not in wide use. Most Leodhasaich prefer the birlinn banner IMHO. --MacRusgail 21:30, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scottish flags of relevance 

message: [Norse-Gaels...]...are not the sole property of Scottish or Irish history. How bigotedly nationalist of you to avoid the English inheritance of Gaelic culture. Lord Loxley 04:33, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Intead of writing insults  and getting all worked up, you could actually backup your edits with sources. If you can't show that  Mael Maedóc / Marmaduke has anything to do with the Norse-Gaels article than why did you even try to enter it in the article in the first place?--Celtus 06:36, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Your link says it's Irish, not Norse, so it really does not belong on a list of "Norse-Gael" names. Angus McLellan  (Talk) 19:00, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Gilpatrick, that's just the Cumbrian Gospatric in Irish. No need for anyone to move, just to change language. Máel Maedoc is hardly a common name in Viking Age Ireland. Are you sure that's the origin of Marmaduke? Angus McLellan  (Talk) 19:30, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Well, yes, but do you have a reference for all this? I can find ones for Amlaibh and Iomhar easy enough... Angus McLellan  (Talk) 19:39, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Lord Loxley, there are a few, but not really that many. Stop turning this into a petty thing. --MacRusgail 18:33, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moved from my talk 

message: Sorry about my misspelling of anglicised.  I was just performing a partial revert to the version of an editor who frequently makes errors in fact, but not this time.  "Englished" is not an English word.  — Arthur Rubin |  (talk) 14:34, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Englished certainly is a word (try it on Google books), albeit a rather old-fashioned one now. Englishing is still current. Angus McLellan  (Talk) 16:25, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

text: "Englishing" is a word. Somebody tried to persuade me that "swap" (or was it "swop") was wrong, simply because they'd never come across it. The subtle difference is between "Sorley" which is an anglicised spelling of Somhairle, and Samuel, which is an unrelated name which is used to English it. Ditto "Norman" for "Tormod" - the names have nothing to do with one another. --MacRusgail 16:52, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Please sign your contributions. "English" is perfectly acceptable, and does not mean exactly the same as anglicise. --MacRusgail (talk) 18:10, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spelling 

message: This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 21:02, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject class rating

message: Hello all, I reverted the addition of macDonell, because there was no obvious indication to me that Dhòmhnaill is a norse-origin name. However, O'Donnell dynasty seems to suggest, but not say explicitly that Donnell and Connell derive from O'Neil which in turn comes from Njal, which is norse. Any thoughts or sources, on this? Also, how should we deal with names that derive indirectly from other names that have norse origins? Should they be included?  de Bivort 16:41, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dhòmhnaill 

message: Many websites and wikipedia articles are quite unclear as to the extent of Norse in colonized areas of the Gaelic/Pictish world.
In norse colonized areas of the Gaelo-pictish world, did the descendants of the viking settlers become gaelic speaking or did Norse dominate the areas that they colonized?
Now I know that the northern isles continued speaking Norse that evolved into Norn that lasted well into the nineteenth century but how long did the language survive in: The Hebrides, mainland Scotland (including Caithness and Galoway), The isle of Man and the Norse colonized areas of Ireland? On several websites and wikipedia articles, they said that the Norse in Ireland became both christian and Irish speaking and perhaps bilingual even before the Battle of Clontarf, where as other websites say that Old Norse was spoken under the Lordship of Ireland after the Norman invasion. Now I know that the Hebrides, Isle of Man and Galloway that were colonized by the Norse were bastions of the Gaelic language and the Hebrides still but were the viking ruled lands and cities in Ireland:
*Irish speaking (before they were colonized/set up by the Norse)
*Norse speaking (while ruled by the Norse, before the Normans)
*French/English speaking (under the Normans)
or 
*Irish speaking (before they were colonized/set up by the Norse)
*Norse/Irish speaking (while ruled by the Norse, before the Normans)
*Irish speaking (before the Normans)
*Irish/French/English speaking (under the [[Hiberno-Normans|Normans])
Can someone explain please?   Abrawak (talk) 13:14, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The simple answer is that they spoke both, although a heavily Nordic version of Gaelic usually settled in after a few generations. Orkney and Shetland, and to a lesser extent Caithness, retained Norn later on, due to geographical factors. Although Gaelic took over in at least two thirds of Caithness after the Norse had died out. Even today Caithness dialect contains numerous Gaelicisms.--MacRusgail (talk) 13:52, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Language, Gaelic or Norse? 

message: Who coined this name? I doesn't seem to be used in the titles of any of the sources. It is perhaps just a made up name for this article? FunkMonk (talk) 21:56, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Norse–Gaels" 

message: The very old name "Þorketill" wich presumable refers to the correctly spelled name "Þorkl" should have some reference to the rare but still used modern name "Torkel", wich originally refers to the Old Norse god Tor or "Þorr" / "Þor"
Bo or "Bui" :)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.228.192.90 (talk) 02:48, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  About The very old name "Þorketill" 

message: Is there a reason why Galloway is not mentioned at all in the Scottish section of the article?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.140.133.223 (talk) 22:53, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Galloway 

message: Certain proper names seem to arrange Gaelic elements according to Germanic word order: Camshron, Caimbeul, Dubhlinn etc. Could anyone elaborate, add links etc.? 195.187.108.4 (talk) 18:49, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, that's something that would require that some examination of the naming pattern and its allegedly Germanic origin be found in reliable sources. It's not just an opinion/hypothesis we can add based on our own personal judgement.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  04:15, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Language again 

message: This article talks about Norse-Gaels, a hybrid ethnic group, but seems to zero in almost exclusively on the "Norse" side of the equation, particularly in the section that lists the surnames. Norse-Gaelic clan names were not strictly derived from the old Scandinavian languages: some Norse-Gaels had Gaelic-Irish names (like the Donovan clan), and others had Gaelic names that were almost certainly influenced by Norse naming practices, and particularly after Christian conversions (see Mac Giolla Phádraig dynasty). Is there any issue with sourcing? I might be able to help with that. Jonathan f1 (talk) 21:29, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, sounds like something to apply a bunch of sourcing to. I find that wikiprojects have gone pretty moribund when it comes to addressing historical topics of this sort in Scotland and Ireland (the project participants mostly seem to focus on sport and current affairs), so it is up to interested "random" editors who have (or have access to) pertinent sources to just dig in.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  04:13, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Norse-"Gaels"