Talk:Ganesha/Archive 4

message: I have reverted some edits that added named references to existing tags.  Named references are very difficult to maintain because a change to one affects others with sometimes unpredictable results.  On Wikipedia there are often editors who do not take care to examine the impact that changing one reference has on other matters.  In my opinion the most maintainable reference is a distinct entity that includes a specific gloss tying it to the text.  I will go over the article again to examine if any of the references that were converted to named format require such glosses. Please note that significant changes to the reference format for articles should be a matter of WP:CON. 
Regarding the reference system in general, I would be willing to convert to use of the Harvnb template for references so long as: 1) There is no use of visible inline Harvard referencing (that is visible in the main text), and 2) there is no introduction of named references.  The issue of using Harvard references has come up before in discussions related to Hinduism, Vedas, Shiva, etc., and my opinion is that of the available Harvard templates, the one that presents the fewest implementation complexities is Template:Harvnb, which is why I have been experimenting with it on other articles recently.  What do other editors think about this? Buddhipriya 19:02, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There has been no objection to this proposal for use of templates yet.  I will demonstrate what I plan to do as part of the review/merge operation on Consorts of Ganesha which I will go over carefully in the next week as prework prior to making possible cuts here. Note that Template:Citation has functionality compatible with Template:Harvnb, and thus it may be good to normalize the References to Template:Citation which is emerging as a general-purpose citation template.  Buddhipriya 22:58, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hearing no objections, I installed one Harvnb template on footnote 135 as a test.  However on my browser if you click the link in note 135 for "Getty 1936", the screen does not jump down to the Getty citation in the References.  Other Harvnb templates work correctly for me elsewhere.  Can someone determine if this one is miscoded?  My understanding is that the Citation template is currently the recommended one to go with the Harvnb template, but I am still trying to understand these templates and may be missing something. Buddhipriya 04:39, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Apparently the problem occurred because the year of publication (1936) was entered in the "date" field instead of the "year" field. It seem to be working properly after that simple change. Abecedare 05:09, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wonderful, thank you for your help.  I am trying to make a good-faith effort to warm up to the templates by using them in actual articles, but I regret that I am very slow at mastering them.  Buddhipriya 05:40, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Objection to use of named references 

message: In her discussion of the name Pillaiyar, Anita Raina Thapan notes that since the Pali word pillaka has the significance of "a young elephant" it is possible that pille originally meant "the young of the elephant".
I don't believe the first part of the sentence is expressed well. What does "has the significance of a young elephant" mean exactly? I also saw that it says "discussion of the name Pillaiyar" at the start but later on "pille originally meant." It should be clearer which name is being referred to in Thapan's commentary. GizzaDiscuss © 07:28, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I checked the book, and except for the opening phrase ("In her discussion of the name Pillaiyar,"), which is just to link the material to the preceding sentences, the current sentence is practically a direct quote from Thapan.  It does not need particularly unclear to me, but if you find it unclear, can you suggest better wording?  The reason for including the opening phrase is just to make it clear which name she is discussing (in previous sentences of her paragraph on this name). Buddhipriya 05:21, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Does the first sentence say that one meaning of pillaka in Pali is "the young of the elephant." If so, I think it is the word "significance" that confused me. I think my second point still applies. Is this sentence talking about Pillaiyar or pille? Or is it referring to both variants? Regards GizzaDiscuss © 05:55, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I rephrased the sentence again to further simplify the structure.  The sentence in Thapan that is cited refers to the words pillaka and pille. Please advise if it is still unclear. Buddhipriya 22:01, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Last sentence of etym. section 

message: Shanadressler 16:25, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You don't need permission, you need to make sure that the link fits Wikipedia's guidelines for external links found at WP:EL.TheRingess (talk) 16:40, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The anti-spam message is recommended by Wikiproject Spam to reduce the amount of spam on articles.  The link suggested above cites no WP:RS and is apparently mainly an advertising site.  It clearly is not suitable for a link.  Please review WP:EL and WP:SPAM.  Also note that posting URLs on talk pages is itself a type of spam, and the URL posted above probably should be removed on that basis. Buddhipriya 05:12, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who do I have to get permission from to post a link on the main Wikipedia Ganesha page? 

message: Is there any need to present the non-presence of Ganesh under Vedic and epic literature section?
The section logically should be talking about the presence of Ganesha in Vedas and other literatures, but here, the article is currently talking about it's absence from the literature which is bit confusing and unexpected. This is making the literature unprofessional to read. BalanceΩrestored Talk 12:12, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is neccessary to include the "non-presence" as per NPOV. The section discusses Heras's identification of Vedic Datin with Ganesha, Ganesha's association with Mahabharata and counter-arguments.--Redtigerxyz 12:18, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Can we keep these in 2 subsections, first section that's talking about what's currently being followed, and another section that starts with a title related to "counter-arguments", which will address the arguments. The flow of the article is bit down-to-earth other wise. BalanceΩrestored Talk 12:23, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You seem to have an issue with the fact that quite a few studies state that Lord Ganpati is not a Vedic god.  I believe this is like fifth attempt by you in a different manner to remove this from the article.  Get over it would be my short and simple suggestion.  However, to answer your question, I think that it is very important that it is mentioned in this article.  Many people do not know this, including Hindus.  I found it to be very interesting and insightful.  --Blacksun 12:45, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

text: I am not someone who believes in Suppressing any information. False will be automatically debunked. If eminent authors have said that Ganesha is not a Vedic God, it is necessary that they prove it and not just make fictitious statements. I've seen articles having a separate section for counter arguments I've only suggested the same. It is good that we are informed that there have been examples of books/literatures those are quoting fictitious/ridiculous statements which are not backed up with sufficient proofs and am really surprised about they passing through editorial reviews. I've been questioning editors here for a long time to show proofs to back up these statements. Which so far has not been done. So, for my reasoning I am only updated about some false editors and false publishers. Yes, certainly they are needed to be present in this very article, or otherwise how would we (public) have known about them?BalanceΩrestored Talk 07:25, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: May I suggest looking up the citations if you are curious about more details? That is what they are there for.  If you disagree with this, I am sure there are others out there who disagree too.  Then your job is to simply find valid references for this.  I also think that the text makes it clear that it is different theories proposed and also shows alternative arguments.--Blacksun 11:03, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

text: I've changed the order to suit the title of the section. Kindly comment. BalanceΩrestored Talk 07:41, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, I've just read page 56 brown it is hardly talking about the proof. BalanceΩrestored Talk 07:52, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vedic and epic literature: Need to mention the non-presence? 

message: Should we add somthing about him apearing in the simpsons?Vadahata2 (talk) 01:23, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  other aperancces 

message: I am kind of surprised that an article this in depth totally ignores the fact that Ganesh is probably the best known Hindu deity in American culture. Just one instance of which is the Simpson's episode that included him. But just in general, Americans who couldn't tell the difference between Indira and Mahatma Gandhi recognize the name Ganesh. That is worthy of note in an English encyclopedia. 75.3.226.166 (talk) 04:42, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The article notes that he is one of the best known dieties; there is no need to mention American culture in particular?59.180.170.155 (talk) 05:13, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, maybe a note on "Western culture" might be more appropriate, but you'd have to provide good citations. Brutannica (talk) 21:46, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  American culture