Talk:Faisal II

message: Faisal was killed on the day of the revolution but it appears that the revolutionaries only intended that he should be exiled; one of the officers on the scene had a rush of blood to the head and opened fire on the royal party after they had walked out of the palace. Nuri al-Said was killed the day after trying to escape. This events are detailed in Hanna Batatu's book on Iraq. I'll check the precise details and refine the current version. Palmiro | Talk 18:17, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the wording used the the article, that Faisal was "executed", ought to be changed. Execution requires judicial or at least quasi-legal authority. He was murdered by revolutionaries. Ncox001 (talk) 23:27, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree. --Counter-revolutionary (talk) 18:00, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revolution and death of Faisal 

message: An image used in this article, , has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests October 2011 
;What should I do?
Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
* If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use)
* If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used.
This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 18:07, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: File:Faisal II f.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: There is no evidence that the revolution enjoyed widespread support. It may or may not have done so. However a military coup is by definition undemocratic and without the consent of the people. Therefore I do not see why the statement that the monarchy "was abolished by revolution without popular consent" requires a citation.101.98.140.129 (talk) 23:24, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Support for revolution 

message: WilsonJohn S. Wilson (1959), Scouting Round the World. First edition, Blandford Press. p. 193 links him to Boy Scouting, was there a connection?--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 09:02, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scouting? 

message: Why on Earth should the executioners transport the body of their still-alive victim to hospital?
Aminabzz (talk) 17:38, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Transportation to hospital?! 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: moved. After extended time for discussion, a clear consensus for the proposed move has developed.  BD2412 T 00:34, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Faisal II of Iraq →  – Per an inapplicability of WP:NCROY, WP:COMMONNAME, WP:PRECISION, WP:CONCISE, and WP:CONSISTENT, I am requesting that the article title for the last King of Iraq be changed. An extended rationale follows on the talk page of the article in question. AndrewPeterT (talk) (contribs) 23:28, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

text: Note: WikiProject Iraq has been notified of this discussion. Векочел (talk) 13:56, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 17 February 2024 

message: 1. Inapplicability of WP:NCROY: I am aware that Faisal II was the King of Iraq (i.e. a monarch). However, his article is not under the scope of WP:NCROY (which, in the interest of full disclosure, I have cited to oppose moves like these in the past). This is because the guideline’s language makes it clear it is irrelevant for Middle Eastern sovereigns like Faisal:
* (Emphasis mine)
*
I therefore ask that my move request be viewed primarily in the context of Faisal’s status as an important Iraqi historical figure instead of (yet another) king. Also, without any appropriate topic-specific guidelines, we turn to Wikipedia’s general titling policies, such as...
2. WP:COMMONNAME: When comparing search results on JSTOR for Faisal II and Faisal II of Iraq, one sees that the former term is more popular than the latter:
*“Faisal II of Iraq” yields 2,580 results, whereas
*“Faisal II” yields 5,060 results (i.e. 96 percent more popular than "Faisal II of Iraq").
In addition, when comparing Google Ngram results for “Faisal II” and “Faisal II of Iraq”, one sees that the former term has consistently been more commonly used since 1940.
Finally, when comparing general Google search results for the current title and the proposed alternative, Faisal II seems to be the most popular way to refer to the monarch in question:
*“Faisal II of Iraq” yields approximately 18,300 results, whereas
*“Faisal II” yields approximately 130,000 results (i.e. 610 percent more common than “Faisal II of Iraq”).
3. WP:PRECISION: As of this post, “Faisal II” is already a redirect to the Faisal II of Iraq article. In addition, since no other Wikipedia titles contain Faisal II, this means that my proposed alternative , per WP:PRECISION.
4. WP:CONCISE: While hopefully self-explanatory, Faisal II of Iraq contains 17 characters, whereas Faisal II only contains 9 characters. Combined with the WP:PRECISION argument, this shows that the latter title better , as WP:CONCISE advises. (And for the sake of this move, I presume that this person will have had some experience studying Iraqi history and culture.)
5. WP:CONSISTENT (Admittedly, I struggled the most to find evidence to support this point.): When we look at the article titles of various other figures in 20th-century Iraqi history, we see that there is a habit of using abbreviated names akin to Faisal II. To illustrate:
*There is an article on Nuri al-Said, not Nuri Pasha al-Said.
*There is an article on Abd al-Karim Qasim, not Abd al-Karim Qasim Muhammad Bakr al-Fadhli al-Zubaid. And above all,
*There is an article on Saddam Hussein, not Saddam Hussein Abd al-Majid al-Tikriti (I must comment that I had never seen Saddam’s full name until drafting this RM rationale!)
Therefore, I hope to see Faisal II of Iraq’s Wikipedia article moved to Faisal II. However, as I always say, consensus determines the final outcome.
AndrewPeterT (talk) (contribs) 23:28, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Extended rationale

message: *Oppose - as his father's page is Ghazi of Iraq & his grandfather's is Faisal I of Iraq. -- GoodDay (talk) 15:53, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: Please note that I am not an expert on Iraqi history. I would greatly appreciate learning about any specialized insight that may make this RM process smoother. Also, I am curious to see how the fact that Faisal II (of Iraq)’s page is a level-5 vital article affects the outcome of this move request. AndrewPeterT (talk) (contribs) 23:28, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion