Talk:Estonians

message: see mena suvari tuleb sealt kiiresti ära koristada. ja üealegi on seal kogu valik täiesti vale. aga pole hullu, kyll ma teen uue
I'm sorry, my estonian is not that good, but since this is the english wikipedia, i'd hope you could please translate your comment into english, thank you. Epf 20:13, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: The page says, some 30,000 Estonians live in Canada. That is also the number widely acknowledged in Estonia. But the homepage of the Estonian Central Council in Canada says, only 10,848 Estonians do live in Canada - http://www.ekn.ca/edemog.php . So, which number is more accurate? 87.119.165.214 11:54, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Canada

message: For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all  infoboxes. Comments may be left on the Ethnic groups talk page. Ling.Nut 23:38, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "related groups" info removed from infobox 

message: The claim about 20 000 estonians in Brazil is hugely different of whats given by any serious source (let's only take Hill Kulu's "Eestlased maailmas"). The number was accounted to be more than 10x less at its peak, currently - could somebody give some newest info? It seems that historically instead in that place should stand Australia, which was alongside (although with some difference) with US, CA and SE one of the most popular places of residence since 1950s. 
In Australia however, assimilation is been the strongest and the number was accounted to 6-6,5 th.. Newer (2,5 th.) is a reference to birthplace.
Thus I made some changes here according to fastest found solid source in net - a work on about a bit different matter (Inga Kask "Eestlaste tagasiränne Eestisse ..." is about the re-emigration to Estonia since 1990s), because it's addition (Lisa 1 starting at page 90)
http://dspace.utlib.ee/dspace/bitstream/10062/1297/5/kaskinga.pdf
Another change concerns the matter discussed previously here about 10 000 or 30 000 estonians in Canada. Due the assimilation the number of estonian diaspora has obviously diminished strongly during years and numbers, which once were valid, shrink (exception - new emigration into Finland since 1990s). How many of them should be accounted as estonians or instead only as people with estonian heritage, is, well, sadly a thematics which is and will be discussable whilest data sources do not explain fully the backgrounds of the respondents. Took here the middle way and made 30 000 to 22 000 according to referred source, which is using THIS:
  
http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census01/products/standard/themes/RetrieveProductTable.cfm?Temporal=2001&PID=62911&APATH=3&GID=431515&METH=1&PTYPE=55440&THEME=44&FOCUS=0&AID=0&PLACENAME=0&PROVINCE=0&SEARCH=0&GC=99&GK=NA&VID=0&VNAMEE=&VNAMEF=&FL=0&RL=0&FREE=022,085 
as its source.
But i'm sure that when somebody starts with an article about estonians in Canada, this should be discussed somewhat longer, whilest it's well possible that 10 000 is closer to reality today. Sadly don't know what's the source for EKN - some other study or only their networks (in the estonian societies).  
Result is still somewhat different from the numbers in Estonian wiki
 http://et.wikipedia.org/wiki/Väliseestlased
But it seems that in this question only a general fitting is possible, not exact matches.
Parakaru 08:17, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Changes to table up right 

message: Most Ethnic Group articles on WP have a section (or at least a paragraph) about that group's religion(s) and cultural practices.  I can't help but notice this article is lacking in those areas.  It has a lot of history and generalizations ("similar to Germans", "identify with Finns", etc.), but there is very little specific information that describes Estonians.  I would like to see information on religion, unique cultural practices, holidays, cuisine, etc.--William Thweatt Talk | Contribs 15:27, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Religion/Culture

message: Is there any connection found with closer linguistical than other Estonians with Seto kiil (language) and Ersa (Erza) language (kiel) or with Moksha (kiäl) language? At least village named Erzava was found in old Setoland. Connection with Erza?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.112.95.64 (talk) 18:43, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Setolanders and Mordvins

message: "Living in the same area for over 5000 years puts Estonians among the oldest nations in Europe". Unfortunately, someone has managed to dig up a loony reference for this piece of nonsense. I believe that anyone should realize that is it quite absurd to use a modern ethnic label for a Neolithic population. This kind of bizarre nationalist anachronism is a disgrace for Estonians, a people I personally love and appreciate. It might be possible that Finno-Ugrian linguistical ancestors of Estonians have lived in Estonia for 5000 years - but it is not uncontested (take a look on some recent studies of comparative linguists) - and in case, some linguistical Stone Age ancestors speaking some Proto-Fenno-Ugrian dialects cannot be considered as members of the Estonian nation in any sense. I am not going to touch a referenced detail, even if the reference is quite obviously ridiculous - but I hope someone will rewrite the part. Facts about linguistic and genetic roots of Estonians are of course essential, but they should not be presented in a completely garbled "we've been around for 5000 years" sense.--130.234.5.138 (talk) 14:18, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You got a point there that Estonians were not a nation 5000 years ago like any other modern nation is not the same as they were during the Neolithic period. At the same time it's a valid fact that proto-Estonians have lived in the region for at least 5000 years according to multiple sources. 
*Global issues : an introduction: An Introduction‎ - Page 199 by John L. Seitz: "Estonians have lived in this same spot next to the Baltic Sea for 5000 years.
* The Handbook of the Former Soviet Union‎ - Page 80 by Michael Kort: "The Estonians have lived along the shores of the Baltic Sea for more than 5000 years"
*The Nationalities Question in the Post-Soviet States: Edited by Graham Smith‎ - Page 129 by Graham Smith - Political Science - 1996:  "The Estonians have lived in the territory now known as Estonia for some 5000 years"
*Business in the Contemporary World‎ - Page 63 by Faculty of Administrative Studies, Bentley College, Ont.) York University" Estonians have been living along the coast of the Baltic Sea for more than 5000 years.
The point of this it seems is that permanent inhabitance of the territories of modern Estonia by the ancestors of modern Estonians dates back to 5000 years. And since WP is not about the "truth" but about WP:Verifiability I don't see any problems here. Other than calling it "Estonians" and "among the oldest nations". it should be simply replaced with "ancestors of Estonians" and "among the oldest permanent inhabitants", that should do it.--Termer (talk) 19:07, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Estonians 5000 ago?

message: The recently available genetic data of Estonians has revealed that they are much more similar to Latvians, Lithuanians, Poles and some Russians than to the Finns, with whom Estonians share a similar language. http://www.ajakiri.ut.ee/438787
190.161.121.57 (talk) 15:53, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd say they're also close to many small western Finnic peoples with whom they do share common languages. So, it's the result of an old assimilation, and not of a new supestrate. --YOMAL SIDOROFF-BIARMSKII (talk) 19:56, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Genetics

message: I'm curious about how well the drive to increase the birth-rate of ethnic Estonians in Estonia has gone, and how many of the  (primarily) Russians have left the country to return to Russia or other countries?  The desire to create a nation-state in Estonia is understandable considering the long periods of occupation and colonization/forced emigration that occurred.  Is Estonian the only language allowed to be spoken in the classrooms there by the students day-to-day? HammerFilmFan (talk) 10:35, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The ethnicity figures rather belong to the Estonia article. --Jaan Pärn (talk) 12:39, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should the article be updated for most current ethnicity figures in Estonia? 

message: An image used in this article, , has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests April 2012 
;What should I do?
Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
* If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use)
* If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used.
To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant 
This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 21:06, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: File:00Estonians.png Nominated for Deletion

message: *The context should be explained and more specific pages than WWII and Soviet Army linked. 
*Many Estonians were deported to Siberia. Have they returned? When?Xx236 (talk) 07:11, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: The Russian page describes repatriation of Estonians from Russia.Xx236 (talk) 14:00, 17 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: The article does not mention Soviet deportations from Estonia. Do you suggest it should? --Jaan Pärn (talk) 15:42, 17 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes.Xx236 (talk) 09:16, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: The entire article doesn't pay more than sketchy lip-service to the history and culture of Estonians. It could certainly do with development of the patchwork leaps from prehistory to the 'reawakening' of the 19th century. There isn't enough context provided for the reader to qualify who the Estonians actually are. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 09:29, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: A good start would simply be to replace the content with a translation of the Estonian language version of this article. --Nug (talk) 20:18, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd be reticent to 'replace' what is already in place, particularly as the Estonian Wikipedia article is lacking in sources. Perhaps some content in this article could be expanded using content from the Estonian, but sources would need to be found backing up that content. A few 'citation needed' tags placed where necessary would serve as a good start? --Iryna Harpy (talk) 20:28, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Estonian language version of this article is not very good, some things could be taken from there, but definitely not translating and replacing whole content.--Minnekon (talk) 11:58, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

text: Maybe you could get specific on what is wrong or lacking paragraph by paragraph? To point out that the Soviet deportations are missing is a good example and can be fixed easily, I guess. --Jaan Pärn (talk) 21:04, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

text: The Soviet period isn't described at all - persecutions, migrations of non-Estonians to Estonia, teaching of Estonian language/culture. Singing Revolution, Song of Estonia still red.Xx236 (talk) 09:16, 19 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  in 1944, large numbers of Estonians fled  

message: The article photo is not in Kose--it is clearly on or around Vabaduse Valjak in Tallinn.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.252.4.22 (talk) 07:30, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  The rationale is that they are supposed to be ethnic Estonians, yes. I think the probability of that is 99%+, considering they are wearing Estonian folk costumes. But if a 100% probability is looked for, then we can show a photo (or photos) of someone else. Or, can rename the caption to "People dressed in Estonian folk costumes." Blomsterhagens (talk) 17:13, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not so familiar with Estonian folk costumes to say what exactly is on the photo (and we see clothes of only front rows), but even if we can confirm it, other ethnicities can wear it too. It might sound like nitpicking, but my point is that if we want to show ethnic Estonians and we have lot of photos in Commons of confirmed Estonians, then why use here photo of just probable Estonians? For example would it also be fine if in Tallinn article instead of photos of known places we use photo of some unidentified street view because we think it kind of looks like Tallinn? I don't support renaming the caption to "People dressed in Estonian folk costumes", because rest of pictures in article already show folk costumes and here costumes are only partly visible. --Minnekon (talk) 19:57, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  I understand your point. Who would you like to show instead? Blomsterhagens (talk) 21:27, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I found out there is decision about removing portrait galleries in the infoboxes, which applies to our case too. Choosing 1 photo for infobox has same problems as choosing several photos: "lacking objective criteria, it is original research to determine who should be featured in the gallery, that this selection process generates a lot of unnecessary conflict, and that a few individuals are not an adequate visual representation of a large group of people." So I think photos of people should be presented elsewhere, in appropriate place in article. If there will be section about Song Festivals, then we can put current photo there. Into the section about birth of Estonian nationalist movement in 19th century, we can put picture of some movement leader (eg Friedrich Reinhold Kreutzwald), into section about Estonians in Canada, we can put picture of some Canadian Estonian etc. --Minnekon (talk) 09:03, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ok, how about a geographical map of the the presence of people who self-define as "estonian"? Blomsterhagens (talk) 12:29, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds fine. Which map exactly? --Minnekon (talk) 13:41, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  This is the best I could find on short notice. Ideally would hope for a color-coded world or european map but maybe this would do for now? Blomsterhagens (talk) 15:00, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, map looks correct and on topic, so it should be ok.--Minnekon (talk) 20:54, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photo Caption 

message: I know Estonians very well and have to say that Estonians are actually  more Slavic-looking in the appearance wise  and less borealized in appearance than this article attempts to instill. The choice of illustrations is not objective. In reality, it is easy to distinguish between Estonians and eg Finns by appearance.
Thus, the article is biased and belongs to the series of articles produced in wikipedia and in the internet  by some Estonian "estonia wants into nordic" Nordicist activists. 
Like that: 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Estonia_cannot_into_Nordic.jpg
It would be better if Estonians related articles were written by more objective authors. Preferably, it could be done by impartial foreigners.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rot20mis (talk • contribs) 20:07, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article is biased,  Estonians are actually  more Slavic-looking in the appearance wise than this article attempts to instill 

message: The redirect Estonians in Sweden has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached.  Estopedist1 (talk) 05:17, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  "[[:Estonians in Sweden]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]]