Talk:List of Sesame Street Muppets

message: somebody switched Robin the frog with the superheroe Robin, and replaced all the info with that. I couldn't find anything to help fix this problem, so if anyone knows anything about robin, please put it in. Ritzbitz00 (talk) 17:24, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't find any record of Robin the Frog appearing on Sesame Street.  Batman and Robin, on the other hand, did appear in animated form (a la Superfriends, so the Casey Kasem credit is apparently correct) in early episodes.  Powers T 19:45, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Robin 

message: Circumstances of Mr. Calloway leaving the show and passing away do not match the ones (with supporting references) found at Northern Calloway.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hylobius (talk • contribs) 15:30, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Northern Calloway (David) 

message: As per discussion on my talk page, a policy of sorts has emerged regarding the sources for this list.  This list is not Muppet Wiki, which is an excellent resource, or Muppet Central.  Both (and other sites) are fan sites and subject to lower standards of reliability.  As a result, criteria for inclusion in this list needs to be higher.  I suggest that the editors of this list do their best to follow it.
# Relible, third-party sources.
# Primary sources, such as DVDs, episodes, and YouTube/Sesame Street.org clips.  See WP:PSTS.
# Sesame Street.org lists, and other tertiary sources.
If there are no secondary source for an item, the editor should move on to the second criteria, and then to the third, and that needs to be cited.  The assumption is that if the source for an item is from Sesame Street.org, the editor has exhausted the prior two criteria.  Please do not include an item if you remember seeing it when you were a four-year old yourself. Christine (talk) 13:41, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: That includes the primary source of watching an episode yourself, but please note what episode and/or skit the character appeared in. The information needs to be verifiable. - jc37 21:35, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources 

message: While searching for characters, I found a great resource, from the National Post .  It's an interactive picture of "101 Muppets."  You roll-over each character, and it has a short description, including the season in which it was introduced.  Its potential is great, and I intend to use it after combing through printed resources (i.e., my books).  I wanted to record it here for future use. Christine (talk) 14:01, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I was just about to utilize the above source, but then I saw something I had never noticed before: "Source: muppet.wikia.com".  So the source isn't really all that great, unfortunately, since it's been decided (by me, although I haven't heard any objection) that Muppet Wikia, as great as it is, isn't a reliable source for WP.  Sorry, kids.  I will, however, put it in a new section: "External links", because it's too cool to not include somewhere in this list. Christine (talk) 12:43, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Great source 

message: I've finally done it--I have created Animated characters in Sesame Street, and will be purging this list and sending items over there.  Eventually, this list will be renamed to "Muppets in Sesame Street".  Thanks for watching. ;) Christine (talk) 13:17, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  New list 

message: My first edit to this list was on 2009-06-17.  Today, 2011-03-08, I have finished purging it of all unsourced entries.  I also moved it because there are now only Muppets on this list, and I finally got rid of the top list.  I dunno, it feels like a huge accomplishment, almost two years later.  Of course, this wasn't the only thing I was working on, but there you are.  There's much work to do, however.  I would really like for this to become a FL again.  (That's also my intention for one of the forked lists out of this one, Human characters on Sesame Street).  Next, I'll comb through other sources.  Can't wait until I can start watching video clips.  Researching for WP is so hard! ;) Christine (talk) 01:06, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Finished with the purge 

message: Would someone mind finding a reference to Howie the Rabbit. He can be viewed in www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEA3EzW3hww
Deltasim (talk) 06:49, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, YouTube clips are perfectly reliable references, as long as you've exhausted more reliable sources.  See the above section,"Possible criteria for inclusion", which describes the policies developed for this list.  One of the last things that need to happen for this list is to go through Talk:List of characters in Sesame Street/Possible additions (Howie's on that list), find clips for them, and add them back here.  It's a fun project, and on my to-do list, but I got burnt out on this list and am now taking a break from it.  If anyone else would like to take it on, go ahead.  I'll help in any way that I can. Christine (talk) 16:47, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Howie the Rabbit 

message: Why isn't Sammy the Snake on this list? He was seen on the show at least twice. -- 134.241.28.252 (talk) 19:36, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sure he was, but unfortunately that's not enough.  Provide a source, even if it's the particular episodes, and he can be added. Christine (talk) 03:21, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: What do you mean? -- 71.184.193.224 (talk) 04:20, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sammy the Snake 

message: I'd like to eventually see this list re-listed as an FL, so I basically reverted it to the version before some major deletions were made early this year.  I also did the same to List of human Sesame Street characters; here's the reasoning behind it , which is the same here. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 16:39, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revert 

message: Is there a reason she's not listed?
mg (talk) 13:42, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Because although she's a Muppet, she never appeared on Sesame Street.  She's in List of Muppets. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 04:05, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Miss Piggy

message: Why is it not on the list of Sesame Street Muppets?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.255.49.35 (talk) 05:41, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: She can be, dear anonymous IP, if the information about her is supported by reliable sources.  If you find them, go ahead and add them; I'll happy to assist you.  Sorry, your fond memories of watching her on The Show as a young child isn't enough; that's original research, which is against policy here. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 20:52, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rosie Rodeo 

message: Well, Here is the confusion. There was one shot character on Sesame Street who hosted Squeal of Fortune and his name was Pat Playjacks. Muppet Wiki said that Pat Playjacks is based on Pat Sajak. Here is the source Pat Playjacks info on Muppet Wiki. Jonathan Lhota (BuddyBoy600) (talk) 17:00, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Sonny Friendly is not based on Pat Sajak

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I have just modified one external link on List of Sesame Street Muppets. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141208011441/http://www.homemediamagazine.com/news/puppeteer-loved-rock-9543 to http://www.homemediamagazine.com/news/puppeteer-loved-rock-9543
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thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018) 

message: Brad, Bert's nephew, should be added.Malcolmlucascollins (talk) 06:47, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: One addition to the list

message: I must have missed something pretty obvious but shouldn't Kermit be listed here? I'm guessing at some point this article was vandalized and not correctly restored. If Kermit shouldn't be here, then isn't the template for sesame street characters wrong then? Mayumashu (talk) 16:47, 29 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow, User:Mayumashu, you're correct.  I can't believe that at least I didn't notice what must have been vandalism--me, who's favorite Muppet happens to be Kermit!  I also can't believe that someone would be so mean to him. ;)  I've re-added him; thanks very much for the catch. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 17:14, 29 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: You're quite welcome. My son, a big Kermit fan and I were wondering if he's on Sesame Street, that someone said that he wasn't, and that started a little searching into it - something about his rights being different from those of the other muppets - which led to here; anyway, glad that's been "rescued"! All the best Mayumashu (talk) 18:11, 29 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kermit 

message: "List of Sesame Street Muppets"? More like "Four long paragraphs of historical Muppets detail already in the main The Muppets article, followed by, oh yeah, that list we mentioned." Why make readers wade through all that? This is what linked articles are for. When you yield to the temptation to include everything everywhere, it defeats fundamental wiki philosophy, and we're back to hoping your local library had a copy of the book you wanted. "Be brave!", as WP Jimmy Wales says. Simplify, stay on-topic, and provide links for readers who want more. – AndyFielding (talk) 08:34, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wildly redundant top-heaviness 

message: My 31 JAN 2023 edit to this article about muppet host character Sonny Friendly being named after the real life host Sonny Fox was reverted by User: Oknazevad.  He stated in his reversion of my edit:
"Not a reliable source. Do not use the Muppet Wiki. It's a wiki, therefore WP:USERG)"  That "WP: USERG" means "User-generated content".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources#User-generated_content
I can understand that rejection, but I have several things to say about that.
1. First, let's put this into perspective...
A. The source I gave is the Muppet Wikia, a Wiki created by devout fans of the Muppets and Sesame Street.
B. Wikipedia is a wiki.... no better than any other wiki either.  Indeed,  considering Wikipedia's fame for inaccuracy, that's the pinnacle of hypocrisy to complain about another wiki.  This is especially so given that "editors" of articles often know nothing about the subject - which is one reason why Wikipedia is considered unreliable.
C. Years ago, I got some kid from Norway undoing my edits about US law.  I am an American who studies law and is old enough to be that kid's father and he's not even an American.  What does he know about US law?  Not nearly as much as I do, yet he gets to override my work.  Think about it.
2. Just because something is "User-generated content" does not mean it is factually incorrect.  Indeed, it is acceptable in a court of law.  It's called being a witness under oath.  Furthermore, when you think about it, we are all "user-generated content" of our parents.
Instead of an outright reversion, perhaps Oknazevad should have flagged my edit within the article itself and requested a better source.
3.  There really aren't a lot of sources on this bit of arcane nostalgic trivia and, unfortunately, I can't use myself as a reference.
But I am 60 years old and anyone who has lived as long as me would have immediately realized that Sonny Friendy, who debuted with Sesame Street in 1969, was named after contemporaneously popular TV host Sonny Fox who had hosted for many years the nationwide Sunday morning kids show "Wonderama".
So, I searched on Sonny Fox being the inspiration for Sonny Friendly to see if there was some more official source than just me.  Immediately, 
I found that Muppet Wikia entry.   And the Muppet Wikia assertion echoed what I suspected because anyone old enough would echo what we asserted.
While that is not conclusive proof, that indicates a pattern - that more than one "witness" independently arrived at the same conclusion/observation.  In court, that is substantial.
So, in principle, if I referenced myself that Sonny Friendly was named after Sonny Fox, my update would be rejected as user-generated content.  Yet, if I took the stand in court and swore under oath, that would be legitimate testimony.
That said, I will endeavor to find better sources for the name Sonny Friendly.
It's a shame, but the real sources for this fact are going to be the people who worked on Sesame Street in 1969 and they are dying off fast.  This implies that the fact that Sonny Friendly was named after Sonny Fox may become lost in history.... all because Wikipedia, "the wiki of record", doesn't trust The Muppet Wikia, a wiki of perhaps better reputation than Wikipedia. Vincent Ree (talk) 22:42, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sonny Fox Inspired Sonny Friendly 

message: Is there a single source somewhere that lists the first appearance of the various Muppets?  A "first appearance" would seem useful - I watched Sesame Street around the mid-1980s, and had no idea that there were *120* of them (I only remember about 7 or 8, not including Kermit).  So I assume a lot of them have been added since then. Jimw338 (talk) 14:56, 25 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Column in table for "first appearance"?  Is there a easy source?