Talk:Catholic devotions

message: REQUEST:  I think it would be a great addition if someone or a team put out the full text and "how to" for each of the chaplets.  Ad.minster (talk) 16:17, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Full Text of Prayers 

message: "The nihil obstat and imprimatur are official declarations that a book or pamphlet is free of doctrinal or moral error. No implication is contained therein that those who have granted the nihil obstat and the imprimatur agree with the content, opinions or statements expressed." As samples of online sources for this often repeated official statement, see      . An editor who fails to understand that an imprimatur given for printing does NOT imply that the giver agrees with the contents has insisted on putting in this article the statement "In support of this statement Patrick Cardinal Hayes of New York provided his to this effect"! 86.45.171.134 (talk) 17:10, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Removing the tag is no reply to the question how, contrary to what the imprimatur article states, you justify making your unsourced and baseless claim that a Roman Catholic bishop who grants an imprimatur to a publication is thereby declaring his agreement with its contents.  86.45.171.134 (talk) 21:57, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  What an imprimatur means 

message: I removed some of the POV pushing and added tags.  e.g., There are no sacred objects/images in the Catholic Church, there is no worship of Mary, etc.Malke 2010 (talk) 13:22, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This article does have problems, but the key problem is the lack of citations. It does not an expert as much as it needs "work" to clean it up. However, Marian devotions are a key element of Catholic devotions, and although there is no worship of Mary, popes have written encyclical after encyclical about such devotions and have composed prayers to the Virgin Mary. So you should probably read up on that and fix the article. The Marian devotions article also needs more references, so you can add citations to that too as you add them here. But the Marian devotions article is not just about Catholic devotions to Mary and so is best left by itself. History2007 (talk) 14:17, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Malke, I just started cleaning up, based on your comments. Do NOT remove fully referenced text. The definition before was INCORRECT and had no reference. The definition I added was from Ann Ball and Cath encyclopedia. Do not remove referenced text. History2007 (talk) 20:42, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article problems 

message: There seems to be an over emphasis on Mary in this article.  The current lead is incoherent with trivial references.  The lead should be restored as it was from yesterday.  As it is now, a non-Catholic wouldn't have any idea that a devotion is simply a prayer.  Also, sacramentals and indulgences are not devotions and have no place in this article, so I've removed them.Malke 2010 (talk) 20:49, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: No, The lead was incorrect before, and had no references. The definition I added was from Ann Ball: Encyclopedia of Catholic Devotions as well as Catholic encyclopedia. Since when are these "trivial references"?  I am about to clean this article up and add references to the whole thing, as discussed above when you placed tags. I did not write this article, but I am going to clean it up now. But I need the text there to reference it. Donot butcher it yet. Wait 7 days for references to be added - some of the text is useful. It will not hurt anyone to wait 7 days for clean up. History2007 (talk) 20:53, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The lead does not have to have references.  See this page.  See also this page.  And this one.  The article is about Catholic devotions which are simply the rosary and novenas, etc.  Stations of the Cross is not technically a devotion.  And the sources being used here are hardly authoritative.  Ann Ball is not the last word in Catholicism.   Nor is the Catholic encyclopedia.  These are two weak sources being used to craft misconceptions about Catholic devotions.Malke 2010 (talk) 21:12, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Excuse me? Did I read: "weak sources being used to craft misconceptions about Catholic devotions"? That means you are saying that I am "not acting good faith" and that I am trying to "create misconception" within Wikipedia? I can not continue discussion with you since against both logic and WP:Assume good faith you are stating that my intention is to craft misconceptions. This has gone too far. History2007 (talk) 21:18, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  content not relevant 

message: *Marian devotions can be reduced to one section.  They're all the same and people pick their favorites.  A simple list will do.  
*The cultus and the approbation are not relevant and should be deleted. 
*The over emphasis on Mary makes it appear that Catholics worship Mary.  This is a common misconception about non-Catholics especially evangelicals.
*The section on Worship versus Veneration needs only the first sentence.  
*The Holy Face should mention St. Veronica, not the Shroud, as the Shroud image has not supplanted St. Veronica's wiping the face of Jesus with a cloth.    
*Devotions need to be added as the page does not show a good sampling of Catholic devotions.  There are over a dozen common ones that can be added.Malke 2010 (talk) 04:23, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Editing out inappropriate content 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120623013300/http://www.vatican.va:80/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20020513_vers-direttorio_en.html to http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20020513_vers-direttorio_en.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080221180735/http://www.vatican.va:80/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19631204_sacrosanctum-concilium_en.html to http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19631204_sacrosanctum-concilium_en.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120623013300/http://www.vatican.va:80/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20020513_vers-direttorio_en.html to http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20020513_vers-direttorio_en.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140812031528/http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_08051928_miserentissimus-redemptor_en.html to http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_08051928_miserentissimus-redemptor_en.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131023155423/http://www.vatican.va:80/holy_father/john_paul_ii/travels/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_07061999_lichen_en.html to http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/travels/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_07061999_lichen_en.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I have substantially trimmed this section where there is a separate article for a particular devotion. If this article seems to weigh too heavily toward Marian devotions, then the other sections should be expanded. By the same token, the Marian devotions article is more general and includes Anglican, Lutheran, and Eastern Orthodox, but is definitely heavily concentrated on Catholic practices. I think most of that should be moved here, and then, if warranted, split to its own page. At least all the information would be in one place. Manannan67 (talk) 02:57, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Marian devotions