Talk:Ovid

message: What does it mean that Ovid's exile is "more properly known as relegation"? I removed this because I couldn't find an explanation of it anywhere. 72.66.124.57 (talk) 02:15, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: John Olsson, it's called wikipedia vandalism, a constant problem. You should fix it if you're so perturbed.Jdf8 (talk) 20:58, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  What's with meow, princess?  Not used to that tone out of you.  davidiad.: 02:56, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Relegation?

message: Shouldn't this just be at Ovid? I mean, no one ever calls him Publius Ovidius Naso, or even just Ovidius. Virgil and Horace are at their common names, rather than their full ones (as are the Roman Emperors). Adam Bishop 06:03, 21 Sep 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree; I'll do the move (there's some history at the old Ovid page).  If there are objections it's easily undone, and at any rate I'd be interested in seeing what any objections might be. - Hephaestos 06:37, 21 Sep 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: Naming

message: I removed the following from the article...
:Note: St. Ovidius, not recognized by the Catholic church, is in fact the same as Ovid. He supposedly showed an interest in Christianity near the end of life.  A "book of St. Ovide" was denounced by John Calvin as a fake in his "Treatise on Relics", and Voltaire scorns the legend of St. Ovide resuscitating little children, so his legend was current in the 1600s. There is a section in Paris called St. Ovide.   Women in his natal town, Sulmonia, pray to him at "Ovid's villa" to help them become fertile.  Ovidio, Ovidius, and Ovide, which all derive from Ovid's name meaning "Lamb", remain boy's names in Europe and elsewhere.
...because it's unlikely to be completely true. Of course if its core facts can be confirmed by enough independent editors, it should be restored. -- Derek Ross |  Talk 06:11, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Ovid's sainthood

message: The dating system was BC/AD for quite a while, and was sporadically changed by an anon IP - just check the history - so I restored the version that was previously in use. Chooserr 20:36, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  restoration of BC/AD dating system 

message: My Renaissance Lit Professor, the greatly-learned Dr. Richard Zacha at the University of Texas at Arlington way back in the 1960's, always referred to Ovid as "the darling of the Renaissance." I wonder if others agree with Dr. Zacha. Was Ovid as important to the Renaissance as he was in his own time? If so, he was surely one of the greatest literary influences in all of history. Cal1440. Cal1440 21:28, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is Ovid a darling? 

message: Can anyone shed light on the correct pronunciation of the name?  Is it AH-vid?  OWE-vid?  Something else?  More than one acceptable answer?
--Imperpay 21:27, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The correct pronunciation is more like AW-vid where AW rhymes with paw, raw or law. -- Derek Ross | Talk 23:58, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Errm, it depends on whether or not you're trying to replicate his name in classical Latin.  Ovidius, pronounced classically is /owe-WEE-dyus/, hence a classicizing pronunciation would be /OWE-vid/.  But most Anglophone classicists, even the Brits, usually say /AHH-vid/, or something like it.  Mr. Ross' /AW-vid/ sounds to me like a British-accented take on this. -- Crispinus211 17:00, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps so, although since I'm Scottish, your American accent is probably closer to the "British" one than mine. However my Latin master never found the evidence for the classical pronunciation of V as W very convincing. Thus when preparing us for competition, he insisted that we use the V pronunciation. -- Derek Ross | Talk 18:45, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have never in my live heard anyone say /AHH-vid/, except in the Boston area where /AW/ (as in paw) is pronounced /AHH/.  The standard modern pronunciation in English is /AW-vid/.  This Scottish Latin master sounds a bit old-fashioned...  IIRC, contemporary Greeks transliterated consonantal Latin V as "ou" not as beta (which was I think already becoming a fricative): thus in Greek "Varius" was "Ouarios."  Pretty convincing to me.  208.114.170.182 05:51, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation: AH-vid? OWE-vid? 

message: Medea, a lost tragedy about Medea 
It should be mentioned in the article:
         1. There are two short fragments which have survived. 
         2. The tragedy was praised by ancient writers (for example by Quintilianus).
--62.245.207.18 22:41, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Medea tragedy 

message: "Much of the Amores is tongue-in-cheek, and while Ovid appears to be taking the normal route of a love poem, he often uses this as a ploy before going against the norm and to a certain extent mocking the other love poets who he felt were not as good as himself, e.g. Propertius, Tibullus and Gallus". Hugh Davey 17:40, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "Who he felt were not as good as himself"? Really? Could you back this up (perhaps with quotes from poem 15 of book 1 of the Amores?) Mhmaudling 19:14, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Propertius in particular was a very close friend of Ovid and clearly influenced many of the poems in the Amores. And, as Mhmaudling points out, Gallus and Tibullus both get extremely favourable mentions in Amores I, poem 15. I think it more likely that Ovid wished he was as good as these poets than that he felt he was better. Of course Posterity feels that he was a better poet than them, but that's not to say that he himself did. Anyway, "tongue-in-cheek" was part of Ovid's style and didn't mean that he thought he was better than anyone else. In fact you'll find that he was quite as likely to mock himself as to mock others. So if you want to add that "felt were not as good as himself" material to the article you will need to find some evidence of it that some one else has written about, and cite it. -- Derek Ross | Talk 18:57, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: ''Amores'' and Ovid's opinion of other poets

message: The result was: Redirect in lieu of merger. --B. Wolterding 16:49, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is so little in the Medicamina Faciei Feminae article that all the information from it already exists in the Ovid article. Hence there is nothing left to merge. Just redirect it. -- Derek Ross | Talk 17:41, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Kudos. Nice article! -- Derek Ross | Talk 04:25, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposed (Medicamina Faciei Feminae) 

message: The article is very badly written and was clearly penned by someone with, at best, limited knowledge of Ovid, his poetry, and Roman society. For example, Ovid didn't primarily write in elegaic couplets - his didactic poetry which forms a bulk of his work is written in dactylic hexameters. The entry has been changed accordingly. Also, I will soon make changes to comments about his exile. No one really knows why he was exiled and Ovid himself is very coy about it. The article offers reasons that are speculative at best. Surely other people also know more about Ovid? Please help improve this article! Ste175 09:53, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Major changes

message: There are more than just two Ovid references in Dante - I don't know if they all need to be enumerated.  One missing example is a very blatant one - Dante actually uses Ovid's name in Canto XXV when comparing his own description of a metamorphosis to his own around line 100.  Tommy.rousse (talk) 16:58, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Dante references

message: This will be a work in progress for a bit.Jdf8 (talk) 00:45, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks good, Jdf8! Nice work!--Abie the Fish Peddler (talk) 01:29, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Working on this article 

message: Well, I wrote a few things. Here are:
==== Criticism ====
Ovidian works have been interpreted in various ways over the centuries in reappearances that depended of the social, religious and literary contexts of theses times. He was the best known and most loved than any other Roman poet (save Virgil) during the Middle Ages and the Renaissance.Peter Green (trad.), The poems of exile: Tristia and the Black Sea letters (University of California Press, 2005), p.xiii. ,  The authors of the Middle Ages faced his work as a way to write and read about sex and violence without orthodox "scrutiny routinely given to commentaries on the Bible"Robert Levine, "Exploiting Ovid: Medieval Allegorizations of the Metamorphoses," Medioevo Romanzo XIV (1989), pp. 197-213. and he also influenced many Renaissance painters. In the Middle Ages comes the volumous Ovide Moralisé, a French work that moralises 15 books of the Metamorphoses and that influenced Chaucer. Renaissance humanism also not ignorated him. Montaign, in his Essais, alludes in several times the Roman poet, for example in Book I/Chapter II, and wrote in his view on Education of children: 
:"The first taste I had for books came to me from my pleasure in the fables of the Metamorphoses of Ovid. For at about seven or eight years of age I would steal away from any other pleasure to read them, inasmuch as this language was my mother tongue, and it was the easiest book I knew and the best suited by its content to my tender age."Michel de Montaigne, The complete essays of Montaigne (translated by Donald M. Frame), Stanford University Press 1958, p.130.   
In the 16th century, some Jesuit schools of Portugal cut several passages from his Metamorphoses and saw his poems elegant and worthy of being presented to students with school purposes, but that was able to corrupt young people.Agostinho de Jesus Domingues, Os Clássicos Latinos nas Antologias Escolares dos Jesuítas nos Primeiros Ciclos de Estudos Pré-Elementares No Século XVI em Portugal (Faculdade de Letras da Universidade do Porto, 2002), Porto, p.16-17.  Jesuits took much of the knowledge to the Portuguese colonies. According to Serafim Leite (1949), the ratio studiorum had effect in Colonial Brazil in the early seventeenth century and that in this period students read in schools works like Epistulae ex Ponto for learning grammar.Serafim da Silva Leite, História da Companhia de Jesus no Brasil. Rio de Janeiro, Instituto Nacional do Livro, 1949, pp. 151-2 – Tomo VII.  Ovid's works took a curious paradox in that time, particularly in England. The Archbishop of Canterbury and the Bishop of London ordered that a translation of Ovid's love poems of the time were publicly burned in 1599 and the Puritans of the following century saw him as a pagan and then, immoral.Ovid's Metamorphoses, Alan H. F. Griffin, Greece & Rome, Second Series, Vol. 24, No. 1 (Apr., 1977), pp. 57-70. Cambridge University Press. But, John Dryden held a famous translation of his Metamorphoses into stopped rhyming couples during the eighteenth century, when Ovid was "refashioned [...] in its own image, one kind of Augustanism making over another." Romantic movement, in contrast, considered him and his poems "stuffy, dull, over-formalized and lacking in genuine passion." Romantics might have preferred his poetry of exile.Peter Green (trad.), The poems of exile: Tristia and the Black Sea letters (University of California Press, 2005), p. xiv. ,  The painting on right, Ovid Among the Scythians, painted by Delacroix, was seen by Baudelaire, Gautier and Edgar Degas.http://www.metmuseum.org/TOAH/hd/roma/ho_2008.101.htm
====References====
Now we need to say about nowadays (we can also write of how his mythological poems served to psychoanalysis and, later, we can add a short sentence, maybe in the top, or in a new section, states that the most famous myths of classical mythology was developed and popularized by him.) What do you think? Auréola (talk) 00:58, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: New topic

message: Now we need to say about nowadays (we can also write of how his mythological poems served to psychoanalysis and, later, we can add a short sentence, maybe in the top, or in a new section, states that the most famous myths of classical mythology was developed and popularized by him.) What do you think? Auréola (talk) 00:58, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: References

message: Can it really be said that Ovid is "best known as the author of ... Heroides, Amores, and Ars Amatoria" and is "also well known for the Metamorphoses (etc.)"? I am not speaking as a classicist, but I would have thought, not only in a general sense but also in other fields of art and scholarship (art, literature, painting and so on) the Metamorphoses to be the best known and more notable by far.
Johncurrandavis (talk) 17:03, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: That's probably true. -- Derek Ross | Talk 19:40, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Best known as...?

message: I'm not a specialist in the subject at all, but when we read the Fasti my professor of Latin literature pointed out that Augustus changed the name of "July" to Julius in honor of Julius Caesar, and then later named "August" after himself.  Thus that stopping the poem before these months might be a deliberate hostility on Ovid's part.  This:
"It seems that Ovid planned to cover the whole year, but was unable to finish because of his exile, "
seems pretty unequivocal.  Is this a widely held conception, and if so should the wording be revised or the deliberate nature mentioned?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.125.139.115 (talk) 06:27, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: The Fasti was deliberately unfinished?

message: What about his Decastiches of each of the books of the Aeneid? learnergenius 01:40, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Decastitch 

message: :::: The article does not mention what many would call his style. I make some points:
    i. His Latin is very pure. Any word or expression you find in him is good canonical  Latin. 
    ii. His metrical practice is extremely strict, especially in elegiacs. This can lead to a certain monotony.
    iii. He is very smart and pointed.
    iv.  He shows great ingenuity in conforming to his metre, especially in the use of parabasis. E.g., the first line of the Ars Amatoria, Si quis in hoc artem populo non novit amandi, where artem is inserted between hoc and populo to save the metre. This is a minor example.
 Tens of thousands of schoolboys must have sweated to imitate him, at least up to the mid -20th century.  Seadowns (talk) 22:40, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Style 

message: I see that some "sources" on the net give 2 January 17 as his exact date of death. Does this have any validity? --  Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 21:58, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Death date

message: I've removed the macrons from Ovid's name in the lead section. Another editor removed these  but was reverted without comment. His point stands though. These aren't standard for the lead on Wikipedia. Most Roman names would require them if they became the standard. Although they sometimes appear in dictionaries as an aid to metre and pronunciation, they aren't part of normal written Latin and Ovid wouldn't have used any accents to write his name. They look pedantic. Furthermore, I'm not even sure they are correctly used. It would be tricky to verify from primary sources that the u in Publius was long. The o of Naso was definitely short, as proved by this pentametre from Tristia: 'quam procul a nobis Naso sodalis abest!'. 90.254.238.121 (talk) 18:17, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Macrons