Talk:2005 French riots/Archive 2

message: *I think the title is misleading, at first glance I thought people were fighting under the Eiffel Tower. Should be 2005 riots in Paris northern suburbs or something of the kind.Hektor 10:41, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: That's really a question of semantics IMO. Do you call it "The Riot" or do you refer to it as "that riot that happened in France in 2005"? I don't think proper-noun status is really acheived until a lot of people start calling the event by a specific name and that name can be universally recognized by said specific name. What I'm saying is that you could've referred to the Nixon scandal as "the Washington Political Scandal of 1972" but IMO the only real proper noun referring to the event was "the Watergate scandal". YMMV Disbomber 01:03, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Title misleading

message: The Timeline section contains the following.
:The unrest was particularly intense in Sevran, Aulnay-sous-bois and Bondy, all in the Seine-Saint-Denis region, which is considered to be a "sensitive area of immigration and modest incomes."
The quote has no reference, and strongly resembles a weasel term. Who precisely called the Seine-Saint-Denis region a "sensitive area of immigration and modest incomes"? Grumpy Troll (talk) 12:49, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: see the "Background" section, which is based on Islam_in_France#Reaction_to_the_rise_of_Islam_as_a_social_and_political_force_among_Muslim_immigrant_groups among other sources. This is not so much weasly as euphemistic. Put plainly, you would say "it's a shithole". 81.63.50.227 12:56, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I know how French people consider the Seine-Saint-Denis region, but a quote requires attribution, and unless a reference is found, I suggest the sentence be rewritten as to put forward the region's sensitive issues. Grumpy Troll (talk) 13:03, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: what do you mean, the source is linked right next to the statement, ; feel still free to rephrase. 13:09, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for informing me of this, for I was oblivious of the above link being related to the statement. Grumpy Troll (talk) 13:56, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Seine-Saint-Denis region considered to be a "sensitive area of immigration and modest incomes" by who? 

message: There is some text that says they were carrying stolen VCRs, but the link next to it doesn't have that text at all. What is the source of the quote? Naelphin 08:05, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Stolen VCRs? 

message: sorry, but could whoever is insisting on the npov warning make a clear case on how they think the article's problems should be resolved? I don't see any particulars of the article being under discussion here, and it is very difficult to address a 'blanket npov warning', saying that 'everything about this article is somehow biase, but we cannot point out how exactly'. How is this constructive? 80.219.217.252 22:13, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: When an explanation comes from a neutral and authoratative souce, you can try to include it.  However, until such an opinion exists, it cannot be added to the article without it being anything other than one guys opinion.  Since the liberal-esque reasons are the ones offered by authoratative sources at this time, they are the only ones you can use.  Even if you disagree with them.  I feel that if you feel strongly about this matter, then your energy can be better put to use by looking for other points of view that can be included in this article.  --Dr.Worm 02:06, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

text: You should learn of bit more of french and european history. France has been invaded many times over the last two thousand years and is now a mix of many people. The Franks themselves (who gave their name to France) came from Asia and conqueered France during the fall of the Roman Empire. The people of Gaul can't be french as France didn't exist and was founded by people from Asia few centuries later. Med 16:10, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: npov?

message: Okay, I'm not really new...but nobody leap on me :Þ  I just wanted to point out that Arab and Muslim were being used as though they meant the same thing in the article (Background section), and I'd appreciate the facts not melding into each other, when comparing two distinct societal groups.  I assume it was accidental, I'm not sure if the actual reports say Arab or Muslim, but either way, they shouldn't be repeated after each other in statistics as though they correlate :)  Sherurcij 08:34, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Just a note, I cleaned it up myself.  I also changed "first and second generation Muslims" to "first and second generation immigrants", since that was the context, and the former made no sense.  Made a few edits, a couple of small(ish?) NPOV touchups, a bit of grammar, a tiny bit of new information, etc.  I would also like to add my voice to those asking for French wikipedians to get some photographs Sherurcij 08:57, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Don't bite the newb

message: The people who died are described as having a North African origin. This is true for Ziad Benna, but not for Bouna Traoré, who had a sub-Saharian African origin. A picture of the two teenagers is available here. I don't know if it would be appropriate to insert the picture in the article. Ze miguel 08:59, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: that's right, instances of "North African" should be changed to "African", then. 80.219.217.252 09:19, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  North African Origins 

message: The first sentence is a run on. It should be tightened up. But with the highly charged atmosphere surrounding this article, I'm loathe to touch it.--malber 14:05, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  First sentence 

message: In 2003, Action Police CFTC received 0.32% of votes for the police professional elections. You don't even have to read french to see it for yourself: . Ze miguel 14:20, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  CFTC: minor syndicate