Talk:Andrea Yates

message: This article says the ruling was overturned? Was she released?--Anon.
:No - she will get a new trial before a different jury. She can re-assert the insanity defense. Since the jury at the first trial voted against the death penalty the prosecution cannot go for it at the new trial. Ellsworth 01:14, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The article suggests two sources: Andrea's psychiatrist, Dr. Eileen Starbranch, testified that she urged the couple not to get pregnant again to avert certain future psychotic depression, but the procreative plan taught by the Yates' preacher, Michael Peter Woroniecki, a doctrine to which Rusty Yates subscribed, insisted she should continue to have "as many children as nature allows". I'm guessing it's in the trial docs. Source? Jake b 07:10, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ruling overturned

message: I came to find out while researching Yates as a case study for the disorder that the psychiatric witnesses (both for the defense and prosecution) asserted diagnoses of schizophrenia and schizoaffective disorder, not a postpartum disorder, this was a diagnosis made during one of her prior hospitalizations. I don't have my source handy, but the main page should reflect that this wasn't the basis of her insanity plea. Certainly the case is important to the discussion of postpartum psychosis, but it isn't considered to be anything close to definitive. Jgrant 22:52, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, well, I am sure you will be all in favour of executing mentally handicapped children as well, right? Brilliant. If you have a heart attack while driving and crash into another vehicle, killing the occupants, but you survive, you should then be charged with driving while impaired? I mean, you killed them and were driving when you should not have been, correct? Illness is illness, mental or physical. She was NOT in control of her actions. If you think that she won't suffer for the rest of her life because of what she did, well, straight up, you're a complete moron. But there is a reason why it is called "Not Guilty By Reason Of Insanity" - she's not guilty, and the only reason she was convicted in the first place was because an "expert" lied. --CokeBear 18:05, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Postpartum Psychosis 

message: Jury just found her innocent. Saw it on a live feed from ABC News.Casual Karma 17:10, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not innocent - they found her not guilty by reason of insanity, meaning she was not in control of her actions and could not tell right from wrong at the time. She still did it, but the circumstances meant that doing it was not something that she was criminally responsible for.--CokeBear 18:07, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Innocent

message: I could not locate where the interwikis on the page are, but they are not related to the Andrea Yates case at all.  They should be removed.  GilliamJF 22:49, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Interlanguage links 

message: Can we get a slightly longer view on this person? Obviously, their life is ruined, but I think that a little more factual background would help. Then a strict chronology of the crime. The all the legal proceedings.  Also: I think we can keep the "why?" to just a few sentences — nobody is making any credible arguments against the main impression as to "why" this happened so let us keep that brief: primariliy insanity, just like the jury said, and the Woroniecki can be mentioned as contributing (but note hat Woroniecki is not charged with anything, so keep it very brief). And the long, speculative psychological analysis is not helpful. Just the facts, please. -- 75.26.6.152 01:28, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Long view? 

message: There: the article is now kinda boring and depressing, but at least it sticks to the facts. -- 75.26.6.170 00:56, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleaned up 

message: I have a question i am taking ap psych course in high school we are on chapter of psychotic illness. I wanted to know if she has depression and that's her illness but then she knew what she did and to be considered legaly insane you have to while commiting a crime have no knowledge about your actions but dpressed people do. i have to write a paper about her for my psych class and i don't know but to me it seems like her defense is just like the "Twinke defense" used. 
really appreciate input --Missionimpossible 03:50, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question  

message: Can someone with editing skill please assess the placement, purpose and POV of the Welner material and sources? It seems like someone who believes Andrea is still guilty inserted it, someone very pro-Welner, (egad, could it be one of his staff?). Even a source from the Park Dietz website was eliminated, making the motives of this edit even more suspect. Some of the text doesn't appear to fit in the places it was inserted and makes the article appear awkward. Maybe it can be moved elsewhere. Thomas Anderson 02:06, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dr. Michael Welner 

message: Would someone who knows how to do this, create a category called "Filicidal Parents" or something to that effect and place it in the category section of this article? There are many psychotic women who have killed their children who have not been convicted of murder and are being treated for mental illness. It is grossly POV and factually wrong to classify Andrea Yates as a "child murderer," when she was not convicted of the crime. She certainly killed her children, but that would classify her as a "child killer," which is technically called filicide and is the legally suitable term to describe her actions. 72.84.69.183 18:28, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A user has fixed this. Thank you.71.251.184.149 20:34, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Category needed 

message: This section documents the many faceted face of blame in the tragedy with excellent secondary sources. If NPOV is an issue, then either discuss how it can be improved, or improve the way the content is documented so that its presentation is more encyclopedic. Wholesale deletion of a significant measure of content without discussion or specific, valid cause is vandalism.72.64.53.169 08:04, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The referenced documentation suggests blame in this tragedy was a major component of the news reports surrounding the story. It is therefore very relevant and encyclopedic to include this facet of the story without bias. The entry order is irrelavent.72.64.34.105 (talk) 11:13, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Responsibility section

message: I'm not qualified to do so, but believe the section addressing Ms. Yate's medical treatment prior to her final release from inpatient care requires serious editing. The statements regarding the increases and decreases in her prescribed medications are not cited, nor is there any indication that Dr. Saeed's decisions were never implicated in Yates' final decline.  Additionally, the article seems from POV to give credence to independent pharmaceutical research done by Rusty Yates.  Yates is neither a physchiatrist nor a pharmacologist, and to imply that his work is equal or superior in weight to that of a medical doctor is dangerous.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.44.36.212 (talk) 16:08, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Account of Medical Events Leading Up To Crime 

message: I tried looking at all the other available links to find out about -- what exactly her 'treatment' at this facility is. Does anyone know what is going on with her recently? This crime has had many different explanations so it is hard to really stay with my original opinion. Thank you very much for your help! Kelly  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.175.218.144 (talk) 19:06, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regarding latest status 

message: Even though I disagree with the allegations that Andrea's medications were responsible for her suicidal and homicidal ideations (although being removed from the medication haldol most likely was why her psychosis reemerged), these were allegations of the case documented by reliable media, as a result of Rusty Yates' campaign to blame the tragedy on something other than his (my opinion) "blind baby factory agenda." All views documented in the major media, including his, have a place in the debate* on who is responsible for why his children are dead, even if they are easily refuted.
:Note*: While Wiki articles are not places for debate, in this particular story, there was a debate documented in the major media over who shared responsibility for the Yates killings : the minister, insurance protocols, hospitals, doctors, Russell etc.
My observation is that Andrea was not on Effexor when she had her first postpartum delusion in 1994 (5 years before going on Effexor and 7 years before the killings) of getting a knife and seeing Noah, her first born, being bloodily stabbed to death. She wasn't on it when she overdosed on her father's Trazadone in July, 1999, either. Therefore, the whole idea that a drug and not mental illness was responsible for Andrea's actions to me is ridiculous. I agree with Parnham that Andrea's actions were driven by delusions resulting from an extensive period of mental illness, and not the result of a severe adverse medical event. The citation from the July 2006 article in the Houston Chronicle I added to the AY BLP recently shows that Andrea continued be administered Effexor for years after her incarceration without adverse effects.
I don't have any malice towards -Legitimus for deleting the poorly sourced drug material in this BLP, as these are the wiki rules. The reason for the citation failures is Rusty had removed his website yatescase.org, and I had mistakenly cited the wrong article while simultaneously sourcing several facts some time ago, so I apologize for the mistake and the consequential confusion. Those citations have now been repaired and the drug component information has been reeinserted.
72.64.46.160 (talk) 22:28, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Drug component of filicides reinserted

message: Shouldn't there be a Category on here for Homeschooling-related Murders? I mean, there have been enough of them to warrant it.. --Ragemanchoo (talk) 05:32, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Homeschooling-related murders

message: Doesn't Andrea also have a brother named Andrew? I could have sworn I saw it in a news article... ★Dasani★ 03:51, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, she has a brother named Andrew. You can search this article: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0501/16/lkl.01.html Andrea's father name is Andrew according to the Andrea Yates Bio in Wikipedia.71.251.177.120 (talk) 10:25, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: So her brother and father have the same name? Sorry, the source is kinda confusing. ★Dasani★ 08:32, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Here is a quote from the linked article: "B. KENNEDY: I usually take mom about every two weeks. I sometimes alternate with my other brother, Andrew." The wiki bio names Andre's father Andrew, so yes, they both have the same name "Andrew."72.64.37.58 (talk) 19:30, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Brother

message: The heading that uses the word responsibility really makes this article seem like a debate over who is responsible, and not a report on that debate. I'm trying to figure out how to fix this, any suggestions? I'm thinking retitle it to something like 'the debate over responsiblity', and include a short intro para indicating that the following are various allegations that were made over who exactly is responsible for this tragedy. Thoughts, anyone? Eaglizard (talk) 19:27, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: How to fix a heading

message: Here is a Chronicle article about relations between Rusty Yates and Andrea's family: "As Yates ordered to prison, her family takes aim at husband." Houston Chronicle. March 18, 2002. WhisperToMe (talk) 22:58, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source 

message: I have edited any paragraphs in this article that refer to Michael Woroniecki to reflect the recently updated article on Woroniecki. Please see the Discussion Page related to that article for further information. 
JoshuaWoroniecki (talk) 17:12, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Joshua Woroniecki is the son of Michael Peter Woroniecki. His rewrite edits to Andrea Yates regarding the influence of the preacher is clearly biased. The article in Andrea Yates referring to his father was carefully sourced with reliable materials. If you go to the Michael Peter and Rachel Woroniecki article at apologeticsindex.org you will discover that Joshua has been waging a major battle on the internet trying to silence dissent at various cult sites and trying to remove legitimate news articles and videos about his father while simultaneously posting their own propaganda at YouTube and their own personal site and blog. Because this motive is clear, it should also be clear what his motive is at Wikipedia. Please, if there is an administrator who could intervene, perhaps the two articles can be repaired to reflect the documented story the media put forth about his father in total, not just the materials where his father speaks out.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.253.57.157 (talk) 08:18, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Note on Recent Edits 

message: How is this statement verifiable?
"Her condition may have been brought on by the extremist sermons of Michael Peter Woroniecki, the preacher who sold them their bus."
That may be a true statement, but so is this: "Her condition may have been brought on by the full moon."  And this: "Her condition may have been brought on by evil spirits".
An acceptable statement might be "Individual X thought that her condition had been brought on by the extremist sermons ..." with a reference to an article quoting individual X saying this.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.219.49.14 (talk) 16:33, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Encyclopedic content must be verifiable? 

message: I found:
>In July 1999, she succumbed to a nervous breakdown
Could someone come up with a replacement for "succumbed"? "succumbed" could be interpreted as "died".  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.45 (talk) 19:24, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  not "succumbed" 

message: The children died, the woman admitted to having done it, and she's never denied it since.  Regardless of her mental state, it's pretty much accepted even by law that she drowned her children.  So can 'allegedly' go away?
Steve Rapaport (talk) 20:12, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why 'allegedly' ? 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070902232526/http://www.chron.com:80/disp/story.mpl/special/drownings/1268306.html to http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/special/drownings/1268306.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080207145347/http://www.medsafe.govt.nz:80/Profs/Datasheet/s/Serenacetaboralsolninj.htm to http://www.medsafe.govt.nz/profs/datasheet/s/Serenacetaboralsolninj.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080529181600/http://gargoyle.arcadia.edu/psychology/blustein/neuro/Lecture_Notes/Psychopharmacology_II_Lecture_Notes.pdf to http://gargoyle.arcadia.edu/psychology/blustein/neuro/Lecture_Notes/Psychopharmacology_II_Lecture_Notes.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080511124450/http://www.transcripts.tv:80/primetime-live.cfm to http://www.transcripts.tv/primetime-live.cfm
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This section has a quotation that is unattributed and appears to be a mashup of at least two different quotes.
The quotation in question begins: "The real question to me is: How could she have been so ill and the medical community not diagnose her, not treat her, and obviously not protect our family from her..."
In the article, Rusty is quoted as saying, "The real question to me is: How could she have been so ill and the medical community not diagnose her, not treat her, and obviously not protect our family from her."
However, the quotation as presented here then proceeds to talk about Rusty in the third-person, indicating that there is at least one other source for it. (Subject Matter Expert Supreme (talk) 18:06, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The first part of the quote "The real question…" is present in the source and attributed to Rusty Yates. The "Rusty testifies…" portion is what I didn't readily see in the cited Time article. —C.Fred (talk) 18:06, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Re: "Medical community" sub-heading

message: Something is wrong with age calculation.  I see, at this writing, "July 2, 1964 (age 55)"; she should have turned 56 by now. Carlm0404 (talk) 16:48, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  How old? 

message: Anyone has any update on the current status? We now have 2021; the article seems to have had most activity up to 2006 and
from then declined sort of. Is she still in a mental health institution? 2A02:8388:1602:6D80:C080:419D:679D:C9F8 (talk) 04:26, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Current status 

message: https://people.com/crime/andrea-yates-who-drowned-kids-in-bathtub-in-2001-annually-declines-release-from-mental-hospital/ 
this recent article by People.
MichaelFansz (talk) 16:09, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is this worthy?