Talk:Norfolk dialect

message: I can understand how people can maybe confuse the Norfolk accent with those from the West Country, but they really are quite different. The WC accent, to me, is the one that's most often 'put on' by people wanting to create a sterotypical 'rural' voice, and this often impacts on any attempts by non-Norfolkers to affect a Norfolk accent - and it's usually unsuccesful !  I think the key difference is speed; to my ears, the WC accent is particularly slow and drawling, whereas Norfolk people can often talk surprisingly (to outsiders) quickly - and this is not just in the Norwich area as the article suggests.
A couple of things not on the vocab list that I can remember my grandmother using : can anyone else remember 'tricolate' meaning to tidy up (maybe using a dwile !) and a slightly odder one (which I found myself accidentally using the other day !) - fagarian (not sure on spelling - pronounced fa-gair-ian) referring to details, complexities, or even an appliance or tool (as in 'I can't be doin wi all this fagarian', or 'press the button on the fagarian to switch it off' etc)
Phlegmatist (talk) 22:31, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Heh ye got a loight boi ? 

message: No they don't. People from the West Country talk with west Country accents, those of us who come from Norfolk speak with Norfolk accents.
*Hmmm. I note the article states that Broad Norfolk has all but died out (FOND notwithstanding) - what's spoken there now? Kinitawowi 15:53, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eh? 

message: I remember my Grandma talking about her Mother saying "your in my dark" or some thing like that when some one blocked her light, Any one else heard Norfolk talkers using this?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.12.241.11 (talk) 19:01, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another phrase? 

message: Is it rhotic?  The examples seem to indicate it is, which would distinguish it from RP.  This indicates that it is not. This is a major subdivision of English accents that should be mentioned in the consonant category.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.6.198.12 (talk) 09:25, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rhoticism 

message: The following text was included in an earlier version, but was cut by an editor named Aunt Entropy. In my opinion the original, below, is an accurate statement of the position. Though I am not familiar with the TV series 'Kingdom' I well remember the effort made at Broad Norfolk by the distinguished actor Alan Bates in 'The Go Between'. It seemed to come out more as a Derby/Notts accent. If Alan Bates could not imitate Norfolk, who in the world can, other than genuine Norfolk folk? 
  
'The Norfolk dialect is notoriously difficult to imitate, and a general-purpose Mummerset yokel accent is often substituted in films and television plays, for example in the British television series Kingdom. This may be acceptable to television directors, but to those familiar with the genuine thing it sounds appalling.'  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Strangerbird (talk • contribs) 10:19, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Difficulties encountered in rendering Broad Norfolk on TV etc.  

message: I grew up in Norfolk and have travelled around the county a fair bit, but I've never experienced anyone pronouncing their Vs as Ws or their THs as Ts.
Tell me if you know of a part of Norfolk where this does happen but I'm not convinced the reliability of the one reference provided. I've only ever heard Vs pronounced as Ws by an Indian man and the TH prounced as T seems more of a Carribean or Irish thing (or ting!).
Matthewcgirling (talk) 23:20, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Wiki has to be based on cited references and not on personal opinions. Pronunciation of V/W/(F) and TH/T/(D) is an interesting, and probably much discussed, aspect of variants of the Germanic languages. I don't think the Nofolk V as W is as obvious as in Dickens' Sam Weller for example. However, for what its worth, I feel it is hard to speak with an authentic Norfolk accent without some softening of the V's and some hardening of the Th's. Motmit (talk) 21:21, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The Boy John letters have "wickerage" for vicarage and "tru" for through. The use of "troshing" for threshing is well known.GraemeLeggett (talk) 21:44, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

text: I'm aware that Wikipedia is based on citations and not opinions, but... the term "reliable source" is extremely subjective so involves opinion. Anyway, this is a difficult issue since I don't think we would find a reference countering the argument - nobody would write an article about how Norfolk people pronounce their Vs as Vs. It might help if we could find what part of Norfolk the V/W thing comes from. Matthewcgirling (talk) 11:35, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: "wittles" (victuals) appears in this OCR of Broad Norfolk : being a series of articles and letters (1893). And page 89 of the pdf states "tree" as the usual pronounciation of "3". GraemeLeggett (talk) 12:21, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Good find Graeme, should we say "historically..." then with reference to the above?Matthewcgirling (talk) 22:18, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ws and Vs, THs and Ts 

message: If that is the right phrase. I believe this largely covered by the first entry under grammar, but I recall our Spanish language teacher illustrating the lack of different endings in dialect speech (compared to Spanish) with the following
Verb: "To go"
;Present tense
*I go down city
*you go down city
*he/she/it go down city
*we go down city 
*they go down city
;Past tense
*I go down city yisty
*you go down city yisty
*he/she/it go down city yisty
*we go down city yisty
*they go down city yisty
and future tense was much the same. Now I expect this is an oversimplification since "gone" is used and comes out a bit like "gorn" (but then "going" comes out a bit like "gorn" too). But is there anything on dialectal grammar and verbs. GraemeLeggett (talk) 15:00, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  verb declension 

message: I'm sorry to say that I don't think the five bullet points in the "General" section of "Accent" are up to the standard of the material on vowels and consonants. I would be happy to explain why I don't feel these points add anything to the reader's knowledge about the Norfolk accent, but if nobody disagrees with me, I suggest that the "General" section as it stands be deleted. There is a case to be made for adding a new section on prosodic aspects of Norfolk speech (which "General" attempts to address), but this would have to be written by someone with a scientific knowledge of the subject.    RoachPeter (talk) 18:30, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I wouldn't worry about "up to the standard" of the rest. Vast swathes of the article are wholly unreferenced.  GraemeLeggett (talk) 19:09, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Accent; General" 

message: An anonymous editor has added the name Dr. Maud Hills to this rather odd list,  without explanation. Can we be told who Dr Maud Hills is?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by RoachPeter (talk • contribs) 20:40, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Famous speakers 

message: Recent edit by KariakSlayer has removed mention of yod-dropping from the "principal characteristics" list. The heading for this list still refers to five points. As I see it, this introductory section sets out the most striking characteristics of the Norfolk accent in brief, and then these are returned to in detail later. You can certainly argue that this is redundant, but in that case I think the whole of "principal characteristics" should be removed. I would say either remove that section,  or reinstate the bit about yod-dropping.  RoachPeter (talk) 16:23, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Point 5 now reinstated. RoachPeter (talk) 11:55, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Accent: principal characteristics 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: In the 4th paragraph of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norfolk_dialect#Grammar, the first about the word 'do', does the illustrative clause 'keep you a dewun' represent the more usual keep you a-doin'? Or if not, what? GeorgeTSLC (talk) 20:57, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: None of the other examples use "dew" so I think it would be clearer to use "do" consistently. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:30, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Um, 'keep you a dewun'  

message: Hello,
 	
this article covers both the dialect and the mixture of the standard language and the dialect.
Kind regards,
	
Sarcelles (talk) 09:08, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Split of the article into an article about the dialect and another about the mixture of the standard language and the dialect 

message: Why was this removed from the page, as it not pronounced like standard /ai/  — Preceding unsigned comment added by DustyRedSkies (talk • contribs) 22:21, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uy/Oy sound 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Norfolk dialect is a sub-type of East Anglian English, e.g. as defined by Wells' (1982) Accents of English (he actually specifies the sub-type as Norwich dialect). I see a very natural merge occurring to that page. The dialect seems to have been on the wane after the 19th century. Is there any reason to keep it separate? If we do so, perhaps we could bolster it better with academic sources like Wells. This seems like the typical dialect page of some gung-ho local-pride editors, involving an infodump where much of the grammar and phonology sections are unsourced -- a bit shaky at the moment. Wolfdog (talk) 11:09, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: It won't be a while until I get access to my computer so please bare with me. There are few thing I'd like to say about this and I'll do that when I can get my computer. I am also willing to put some time and effort into the article as that is clearly needed. cheers. Willbb234 21:24, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge to East Anglian English