Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Comics/Archive 5

message: This archive page covers approximately the dates between 6 July 2005 and 24 August 2005.
Post replies to the main talk page, copying the section you are
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Please add new archivals to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Comics/Archive06. Thank you. Hiding  talk 19:45, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

message: There are currently two different naming conventions being used for Ultimate Marvel characters.  Some Ultimate characters have their own articles such as Ultimate Captain America.  Others have entries in the article of the MU character, such as Colossus (comics).  It was suggested that a poll be held to determine consensus.
Please sign your name using three tildes (~~~) under the position you support, possibly adding a brief comment. If you are happy with more than one possibility, you may wish to sign your names to more than one place. Extended commentary should be placed below, in the section marked "Discussion".
* Ultimate characters should have their own articles
*#SoM 22:11, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Ultimates Naming Survey

message: While I would have preferred higher participation, I think that this poll has been lingering long enough.  As it stands, the policy that is winning in votes is:
:Ultimate characters should have entries in the MU article unless the article grows unmanageably large, in which case the Ultimate character article should be spun-off.
However, the vote doesn't express as clear a consensus as I would like to start making these sweeping changes.  JamDav, SoM, Hiding, are any of you still adamantly opposed to the merging of these characters into the main character articles?  If any of you are, are there any middle-road proposals or changes to the existing proposal that you would like to make?  If not, we can add this policy to the main WikiProject comics page, and start fixing the articles that do not comply with this policy at the end of this week. --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 21:56, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)
I thought I was supporting the merging back of content. That's certainly what I thought I voted for. Hiding 12:47, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Umm, I'm stupid and I apparently don't notice strikethroughs :p.  Yes, you're right. --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 14:27, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC)
*Phew, you had me worried. :)Hiding 15:51, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

text: After looking at a few more articles, I changed my mind. I don't really mind what happens, but it could get confusing with the affilations etc. I suggest a seperate infobox for the Ultimate character, or mentions in the main article text that some/most of the main infobox does'nt apply, but I'm not going to go into a hissy fit over it! In conclusion, I strongly believe in majority rule, so go ahead and merge. --Jamdav86 17:45, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Conclusion

message: **I've tagged the articles that I saw appropriate in Category:Ultimate Marvel for merging.  I'll try to get to it this weekend, but anybody with free time can help, and that would be greatly appreciated.  Just to note, I didn't tag articles for superheroes or teams that have their own title in the "Ultimate" line, as there can be an encyclopedic article on the comic book line itself.  --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 18:09, July 12, 2005 (UTC)
***OK, this is a little annoying.  Pretty much every article I've tagged for merge has been contested by BrownShoes on the talk page, usually with the simple line "Keep", and sometimes the incomprehensible "more info will is add".  For exampeles, see Talk:Ultimate Iron Man, Talk:Ultimate Captain America, Talk:Ultimate Black Widow, etc.  BrownShoes didn't even vote in the poll, which is even more irritating.  If people are still conflicted, then maybe I should put these articles up for VFD, although I'm almost positive that the general wikipedia populace will vote to delete or merge.  --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 17:22, July 25, 2005 (UTC)  NOTE: I just noticed that there is going to be an Ultimate Iron Man mini-series, so the article can stay, but it should be about that mini-series, not the character.
****Does this mean we can't merge the articles? Hiding  talk 23:09, July 31, 2005 (UTC)
****No, merge away --Jamdav86 18:51, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Merging

message: What d'y'think? Discuss at /templates#Supporting_characters_infobox_.28supersupportingbox.29- SoM 15:39, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Supporting characters infobox (supersupportingbox)

message: I like the Essential reading section on Ra's al Ghul#Essential reading.  Maybe our project should set down guidelines for similar entries in all of our comic articles?  We could have links to the major issues/trades that deal with crucial moments in a characters story arcs?  --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 18:14, July 15, 2005 (UTC)
:That sounds like a good idea, yes. Hiding 19:25, July 16, 2005 (UTC)
:Would this be intended to replace the "Bibliography" sections (either just the contents under the Biblio title, or wholesale, title included). If so, I'm iffy. I don't like the current Biblio standard which seems to have emerged over time without explicit discussion of "every solo issue/story of the character/team, and nothing except solo stories", since it all-too often misses out key stories (which occur in team books, crossovers, etc). But, OTOH, at least it's consistant - this holds the prospect of either overcomprehensiveness, including every story the character/team has appeared in, or users editorially deliberately ignoring significant stories under the argument of "What is 'Essential' or 'Significant'" - indeed, is it even possible to isolate such stories down to a reasonably-sized list that can achieve a reasonable consensus that won't include systematic bias against certain periods/creators from 40+ year histories? - SoM 19:53, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Essential Reading 

message: Could all project members help us reach a consensus on this page regarding the level of detail needed to describe Wolverine's powers. Hiding 19:25, July 16, 2005 (UTC)
:Only Nightscream is pushing his version against an already-existing consensus, enforced by reverts of his version by most of the other people who have worked on this article (at least 5 other users, not including myself, have reverted Nightscream's version at a glance), and if he succeeds in altering the consensus by sheer weight of reverts, it sets a horrible precedent, and I don't see how that can be good for the community as a whole. I don't see how this even merits discussion, let alone a full-fledged RFC. - SoM 19:44, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wolverine (comics) 

message: While on RC patrol I encountered the brand-new article Kade. Can someone who knows more about comics than I do (and I know virtually nothing) clean it up and make sure it's in the right categories and stuff like that? Thanks! --Angr/ 07:33, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Kade]] 

message: The article 1959 in comics looks like it should be moved to a different title but I don't know where.  Anyone have a suggestion? RJFJR 21:40, July 23, 2005 (UTC)
:I would guess Eagle (comics), based on what's there. - SoM 21:53, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  The full article is at Eagle (comic). The information could be merged into there. BillyH 22:24, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move, but where? 

message: Thought I'd introduce myself - User:Peteashton. Relatively new Wikipedian though I've been using it for a long while now. I've been involved with the British small press comics scene for a good 15 years now and have amassed a rather daunting number of zines and issues of TCJ. Seems logical to transfer that information onto Wikipedia. 
My first three article of any note are Rian Hughes, Glenn Dakin and Escape Magazine. Feedback, editing and fleshing out would be appreciated! I also threw together List of Comics Journal interview subjects which has some gaps. Issues I've covered are in Talk. Folk might find it useful.
My plan is to circle around the Escape crowd and develop a history of British small press comics, something I've been meaning to do for a couple of years now. Then I'll start on the US scene (Top Shelf, Highwater, D&Q, Non, etc). And then.....
Peteashton 08:11, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  British Small Press (mainly) 

message: Hi folks,
I just wanted to let you know about a list of votes for deletion on articles related to comics and animation.  You can find the list here:  Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Comics and animation.
Since you're interested in comics and improving Wikipedia's coverage of them, you might want to monitor this list.
If you find the list useful, please also help to maintain it by adding new items and archiving old ones.  Thanks!
Cheers,
-- Visviva 16:03, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deletion list 

message: Partly in response to Hiding's post at Talk:Wolverine_%28comics%29#Section_listings, partly because this came up before, we didn't get anything near a consensus and it fizzled out.
I accept, even if I don't like, the fact that most people want Ultimate versions included in the main articles. With that in mind, here's how I think articles should go, as a starting point. Characters like Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, etc that have become more general pop culture icons aren't included so much in this.
(Introduction)
Obvious, no actual heading. Basically listing current/primary codename, real name, other significant codenames, publishing company, creators. Since long intros seem to be frowned upon in general, that should be pretty much it.
Publication history (open to renaming suggestions for most of these)
Real-life history of the character, who wrote it, what series they've had, their longevity, etc. Focusing on the comic, but passing mentions of all other-media versions, and acknowledging where these versions have impacted on the comics. Also mentioning reboots, etc.
Primary continuity - Golden Age version', Pre-Crisis version, Post-Crisis version, Marvel Universe version, etc if there's more than one comics version, Character biography if there isn't.
Filling in the first (or primary, if the "main" version isn't the original) continuity version of the character's history. Subsequent sections, Ultimate Marvel version, etc should follow if necessary, noting divergances. If the character is sufficiently different, in name, etc, or the article is excessively long, then this should be short and a Main article: ARTICLE NAME link should be provided.
Appearances in other media
Again, this depends on the significance of the other-media versions. If it can be covered in a sufficiently short space, here, otherwise breakout.
Powers and abilities
Discussing the commonalities only of the "major" versions (except where one, as with Superfriends Wonder Woman is completely different), leaning towards the primary and current versions but not excluding the others. Should not be excessive, or copyvio OHOTMU, etc stats - which are rarely held to in the comics anyway.
Bibliography
Sub-heading: List of titles
This should be a complete list of all solo stories of the character, as with most comics bibliographies now [i.e. in the form Booperman #1-499 (Geldof 3092 - Hexember 3189, Fictional Comics), etc as a bulleted list]
Sub-heading: List of Significant stories
What it says on the tin, with the same idea as #Essential Reading above. Need to be checked for POV, etc, obviously.
External links
Bet you can't guess ;)
Comment? - SoM 20:52, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: *Characters like Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, etc that have become more general pop culture icons aren't included so much in this..  However, yeah, I take the point.  I think Jamdav86's version down below solves that problem.  What do you think? I have some objections I'll address there. Hiding  talk 17:22, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

text: *I think it has to do with how the templates stop working if there's a huge load on the servers or something? Hiding  talk 17:22, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Default article sectioning

message: Just to move this on a bit, no-one else seems to have joined in.
*(Introduction)
*Publication history
*Version biographies/Character biography
*Powers and abilities
*Character in other media
*Bibliography
*References
*External Links
Thoughts? Hiding  talk 19:34, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Another option?