Talk:August Uprising

message: So what kind of information are you all looking for when it comes to Russian History?
66.85.43.78 20:14, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Hi

message: As shown above, this article inappropriately passes off undocumented claims like that of Bezirgani's 12,000+ executions without any kind of attribution or consideration for alternative views. It's unfortunate that I had to spend so much time researching this myself when the person who added this material should have presented all of the relevant information. And the consensus appears to be, as I explained above, that Bezirgani's work is rubbish.
Claims are made about killing of prisoners. But the cited source for this is the daughter of the rebel leader Cholokashvili, which violates Wikipedia's policies about the use of primary sources as well as attribution.
Also major problems with the biased language and omissions in the article:
independence of Georgia - which is disputed. Some argue that Georgia was in fact a vassal of Western European countries during the nationalist regime of 1918-21. 
The loyalty of the Georgian population to the new regime proved not easy to obtain. - which is, again, disputed, as some sources state that the Georgian Bolsheviks had considerable popular support and helped to lead resistance against the nationalist regime: [The toiling masses of most of the districts of Georgia rose up during October and November 1919...The Bolsheviks stepped up preparations for the overthrow of the Menshevik regime, the last stronghold of counterrevolution in Transcaucasia. An armed uprising that came to cover all of Georgia began in Lori, Gori, Borchali. Dusheti. Racha, Lechkhumi and other districts on the night of Feb. 11–12. 1921.] 
Red Army invasion - which is a controversial remark. Some argue that Georgia was engaged in a civil war-like situation in the 1918-21 period, especially in early 1921, culminating in an an armed uprising in Lori, Gori, Borchali. Dusheti. Racha, Lechkhumi and other districts on the night of Feb. 11–12. 1921. Georgian insurgents themselves were also involved in driving out the nationalist regime. 
This is all elaborated in а book about the Civil War in Transcaucasia.
Given such conflicting opinions, it is preferable to use neutral language and avoid taking sides with claims like "Red Army invasion"  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.51.170.140 (talk) 06:05, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: In short, you want the article to be based on Russian perception of the 1924 events and of the historians the Russians consider to be "revisionist". You assertion that "independence of Georgia - which is disputed. Some argue that Georgia was in fact a vassal of Western European countries during the nationalist regime of 1918-21" betrays your heavy pro-Soviet POV and anti-Georgian prejudice. So far you have failed to demonstrate why the sources used in the article should be discarded as non-reliable. Just because Russians don't like them? Again, Soviet view should be included, but only as a Soviet POV, not as the unquestionable truth. --KoberTalk 08:03, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

text: As for invasion, the "civil war-like situation" does not itself exclude the fact of a foreign invasion, which is documented in several sources cited in the article.--KoberTalk 08:15, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

text: The above IP is a sock of an indef banned user User:Jacob Peters. Basically, just revert on sight.Volunteer Marek (talk) 20:22, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV Problems