Wikipedia talk:Editor assistance/Archive 1

message: I like helping other editors and certainly want to at least try out this new system.  How shall we get it started?  This currently is a guidelines draft and, as such, I have a few questions to bounce around.  In what venue will editors ask for assisstance?  (That is, will they sign their name on a specific page, e-mail a specific e-mail address, etc.)  Shall we assist people on their talk pages or maintain a sub-page for each person?  (I would prefer the former.)  Anyways, just some loose ends I thought of. --Iamunknown 18:57, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think probably the assistance should be on the talk page of the person getting helped-that way, it's easy for them to refer to, and if the assistant sees them engaged in something that's a Bad Idea(TM), they'll get the new messages bar, hopefully checking it and cooling down. As to where and how people should apply, I think we should have one page on which assistants can list themselves. Someone can request help from a specific person, or put a more general request on that page for whoever's available and able to help in their situation. Seraphimblade Talk to me 22:33, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I like the put a general request on a specific page idea.  How's [ this edit] to get us started?  I thought it should be at the bottom so that editors who come for assistance are encouraged to at least scan the rest of the document first.  --Iamunknown 23:28, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I like it! I clarified the statement a bit to ask people to put a brief problem description, that way anyone thinking of responding can see if it's something they have experience with. Seraphimblade Talk to me 23:32, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Awesome!  I like how this is starting.  --Iamunknown 23:43, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Basically one just needs some people to keep the page on their watchlists, and to promise to look after it a bit for a couple of months at least, is all. :-) --Kim Bruning 01:39, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I like it, let's do that! Seraphimblade Talk to me 11:16, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'll definitely do that.    --Iamunknown 16:16, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As will I, of course. We also need somewhere appropriate to list this where it might get a wider audience, any ideas? Radiant's already signed up to give some help, definitely a good sign. Seraphimblade Talk to me 16:56, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  How shall we get this started? 

message: I would be interested in participating in this project. At the moment, it doesn't seem to be clear whether it's active or not, particularly in light of the closure of the AMA MfD. Can anyone clarify whether this project is currently active? And can we add a list of members? Walton Vivat Regina! 16:16, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We have a member list, but it's an in-text link, I'm trying to think of a clearer way to display it. And yes, it's active, I've put notices in some different places, so if anyone wants to ask, they will! (By the way, the list is here.) Seraphimblade Talk to me 16:23, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Perhaps you could just consider yourself a member? :-) --Kim Bruning 17:54, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: I'd like to sign up

message: Anyone who is interested in the project could also add this userbox, which I've just designed, to their userpage. Use  to transclude it. Walton Vivat Regina! 17:21, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Userbox

message: Is there some way to coordinate this project with AMA, Med Cabal, Third Opinion, and adopt-a-user?  All seem to have significantly overlapping purposes (informal dispute resolution, guiding new & inexperienced editors).  It would be nice to see some sort of overarching way to collaborate and coordinate between these projects.  -- Pastordavid 19:32, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Given that AMA is sticking around, at least for now, I probably will suggest with them that we work together-this project can send people that want an actual advocate to AMA, and they could send people that just need some help and advice this way. Adopt-a-user has a lot of crossover, but they're more intended to help new users learn to edit. And that is great! This one, though, is intended even for more experienced editors that might need help and advice just in a certain area they're not too familiar with, and might find being "adopted" demeaning. 3O is intended more for an uninvolved party to take a quick look and offer an opinion (a mini-RFC, if you will), and Medcab for someone neutral to try and help everyone come to consensus, so I think there's a lot more difference there. Seraphimblade Talk to me 20:38, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, that makes sense to me.  Part of what I am thinking of is that it is not always clear which route one should take when in need of help / guidence, and it would be nice to have some way to sort requests for help.  I realize that WP:DR is supposed to help people in self-sorting, but I don't know that it always works (i.e., in some cases DR is unclear, and some people are not the best at self-sorting).  Perhaps a centralized location to list disputes, that can then get sorted to the appropriate place?  I don't know ... I'm kinda thinking out loud.  -- Pastordavid 21:40, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that's a lot of what the Help Desk does, but they tend to get buried and underused at the same time. I don't think that's a bad idea at all (though I wish more people just would point someone in the right direction if they see them floundering, it doesn't seem to happen as often as it should). Seraphimblade Talk to me 21:59, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

text:  WP:MEDCAB de facto does sorting as well, even though that's not really the purpose. :-/ --Kim Bruning 22:11, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Coordination 

message: If the /list page gets any longer, it would be helpful to split it by topic area. >Radiant< 08:14, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good idea, any suggestions on topic areas? Maybe "General editing help", "Dispute resolution", "Deletion issues", any other ideas? Seraphimblade Talk to me 13:32, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hm, thinking about this, there's quite possibly people with multiple skills, we could do something like this:
User    	Editing	Disputes	Et cetera
Seraphim	       	yes     	yes
Radiant 	yes    	        	
I think the three categories you suggest are good. Perhaps policy/guidelines is good, too, as may be investigating assertions of admin misconduct. Perhaps the MOS, if we have any experts on that. >Radiant< 14:01, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Those are very good ones too, and I like the format you suggest, rather than having people listed under multiple sections. Actually, MOS help would be great if we can find some people willing to do that. Seraphimblade Talk to me 14:17, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I like the idea too.  I think "images" and possibly even "research" (as in methods of doing research)  might be good sort keys as well.  --Iamunknown 14:46, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think research would probably go under general editing help, but images would be a very good one. Seraphimblade Talk to me 14:48, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Split 

message: I am glad I happened on this page while y'all were working on it.  I had a situation arise like what is described, and the description of the process here was much better than the description of "voluntary mentoring" on the mentoring DR page.  I still think it would be good to have some sort of way to sort disputes/requests among the various informal and formal DR programs - something like a DR dab page: "If the situation is X ... go to ___".  -- Pastordavid 18:06, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Now that, is an excellent idea. I'll start work on that. Seraphimblade Talk to me 18:27, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Got one started here, if anyone has ideas, edit away! Seraphimblade Talk to me 19:18, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Great start!  Not much time right now, but I will be back to have a go at it later.  -- Pastordavid 19:35, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  First "case" 

message: Please could all participants in the project add themselves to Category:Wikipedians in the Editor Assistance Project? (Unless you've already added the userbox, which adds you to the cat automatically.) Walton Vivat Regina! 18:46, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Category

message: How does one sign up as an Editor Assistant? I was unable to add myself to the list. --Aarktica 19:01, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The reason for the technical problem is that the members' list is transcluded - just add yourself to the original page at Wikipedia:Editor assistance/list. Please also add yourself to :Category:Wikipedians in the Editor Assistance Project. Walton Vivat Regina! 19:44, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: When I edit the page, all the previous text is missing. I have added text to the box and hit the 'Save page' button several times without any success; perhaps I'm missing something. --Aarktica 19:58, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sign-up instructions. 

message: Here is a draft of what I would like to add:
I am open to informally providing constructive feedback on a situation or problem. Leave a message on my talk page, and I shall reply ASAP. Cheers. --Aarktica 19:02, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The reason for the technical problem is that the members' list is transcluded - just add yourself to the original page at Wikipedia:Editor assistance/list. Please also add yourself to :Category:Wikipedians in the Editor Assistance Project. Walton Vivat Regina! 19:44, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: When I edit the page, all the previous text is missing. I have added text to the box and hit the 'Save page' button several times without any success; perhaps I'm missing something. --Aarktica 19:58, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Draft 

message: Would it be at all possible to cut down on instruction size already? might be a challenge... what can you leave out and still have it work? --Kim Bruning 22:45, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, a radical thought: get rid of everything except for the "Request assistance" box.  >:-)  --Iamunknown 22:55, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Google did something like that, except theirs was a "search" box. Was pretty popular, back in the day, as I recall. ;-) --Kim Bruning 01:31, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Not really sure-I certainly don't want it to be hard for people, but at the same time, I do think some coherency is needed. What do you think is overly creepy? Seraphimblade Talk to me 00:08, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Turn that around... What do you need to keep? :-) --Kim Bruning 01:31, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps move "role of an assistant" and "leadership" to a sub-page, with a link like More guidence for those providing assistance can be found here" or something to that effect.  -- Pastordavid 02:38, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Alright, I think that would work better, and have the front page more for those looking. Seraphimblade Talk to me 03:16, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I like that. Wikipedia:Editor assistance/Assistants should work. - jc37 03:29, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

text: *We can prune a bit, but the "what (not) to expect" section sounds helpful to me. >Radiant< 09:13, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Given recent confurion that I've seen over where to get help (which DR process to use), I think it's useful to have some explanation of what sort of help to expect.  -- Pastordavid 13:49, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed to you and Radiant.  Big "Get help" sign, list (or maybe table?) of assistants and specialties and at least the "what not to expect" section or at most that and the "what to expect" section.  --Iamunknown 15:03, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  A very brief summary, which links to a list elsewhere? Actually hmm, answering GET HELP more in general might not even be a bad idea (though it might take a little more work on backend). Sorry Iamunknown, you've sort of unleashed a monster inspired me here. Maybe I should just go off and design my own processes though ;-) (I'll certainly try to apply concept anytime I try build something new, at least :-) ) --Kim Bruning 17:42, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hehe, I introduced the polar viewpoint so that we could negotiate between poles, but if we end up liking a minimalist look, hey, I don't think it'd be such a bad idea.  I like the current separation of the front page and the guide to assistants page.  Maybe a bit more pruning is in order, but I'll probably be more inspired when I'm less tired.  _._||  --Iamunknown 04:36, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Already getting complicated 

message: This is so exciting!  Two users have asked for my assistance at my talk age and I tried my best, and it is so awesome!  I'm so glad we're getting this off the ground; informality + help = coolness.  :-D :-D :-D :-D  --Iamunknown 04:07, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Had one ask here as well, talked to him on his talk page. I think this is going to work pretty well. :) Seraphimblade Talk to me 04:17, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Getting off the ground 

message: Can we not work with WP:AMA? They don't seem to like working with anyone else unless they are the dominant partner. Let them sink into the ground and run this place like a complex version of the help desk. It seems to me that WP:ASSIST fits neatly onto our dispute resolution ladder:
# General inquiries - Help Desk
# More specific and detailed inquiries, possibly about users. - WP:ASSIST
# Request for community input about a user. - RfC
# Informal mediation between two users - Medcab
# Formal, more serious mediation - Medcom
# Formal mediation with binding consequence - CEM
# Intervention with binding resolution - ArbCom
I note that someone on the requests page has said that they have answered a query but left it up in case anyone else wants to reply. It might be beneficial to create an "Answered Requests" section for thier purpose, so that other users can check what advice a user has been given and possibly supplement or correct it. As everyone who has had dealings with WP:AMA knows, just trusting editors to tell inquirers the right things can sometimes be disastrous. :) Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 16:59, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, since it seems there are some that prefer to talk directly on the request page, I was thinking we probably should archive requests from there rather than straight removal. Would be easy enough to create an archive page. As to AMA, they really have done some good in addition to what's been wrong, I really hope the house can be gotten in order there. I have nothing against AMA, and I don't in the slightest intend this to kill them off, I hope that everyone can work cooperatively. Seraphimblade Talk to me 17:04, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Dev920: It's just one particular AMA member who is acting that way, mind you. :-)  --Kim Bruning 21:10, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am open to the idea of reuniting the two organisations, but it has to be done gradually and through consensus; CyclePat went about it completely the wrong way, with the upshot that resentment between the two groups has actually increased. The other problem is that some members of WP:ASSIST have expressed anti-AMA sentiments, so moving back into the AMA might force them to leave. Walton Vivat Regina! 15:17, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some ideas 

message: When replying to a request for assistance, should we reply at Wikipedia:Editor assistance/Requests underneath the original posting, or on the user's talk page? A few minutes ago, I answered a user's question on the requests page just as Seraphimblade was answering on the user's talk page. To avoid such duplicate work, I think we need a firm guideline on this. Walton Vivat Regina! 15:36, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Really, I don't think it's that big a deal. That was just a chance thing, that request had been up for hours, and we both gave pretty much the same advice anyway. I really don't think we should have any firm guidelines in the absence of an absolute need for them. :) However, I would tend to say that in general, if the editor asking for help seems to be reasonably experienced, talking to them on the request page is just fine, especially if the request seems to be something that won't require a long dialogue. A newer user, though, might not know how to use a watchlist or find that page again, but they sure won't miss the big yellow banner. In that case, it's probably best to respond on their talk (or at least leave a note on their talk with a link back to their answered request). Seraphimblade Talk to me 15:40, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: OK fair enough, although in the absence of any guidelines on this issue, I've been replying on the requests page and then notifying the user on their talkpage, which preserves continuity while ensuring that they don't miss the response. But like you say, it probably isn't that big a deal. Walton Vivat Regina! 15:45, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Does the request page still instruct assisting editors to remove the request once they answer it?  If it weren't for that instruction, I would lean towards something more along the line of Walton's method.  TheronJ 20:27, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Whoops, nevermind.  I see we're now archiving closed questions -- that's a good change, and I've archived mine.  TheronJ 02:38, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Either method works; just remember to add a note to the request whenever a member of the EA team has done anything concerning the case. Then I think the problem is solved. --Deryck C. 12:51, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm not in favour of archiving all closed requests. I think that answering them on the requests page solves that problem, as it makes it clear which ones have been answered already. Walton Vivat Regina! 13:55, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: For completeness, I suggest that a link to the response on the EAR page be posted on the user's talk page. --Aarktica 22:38, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Replying guidelines

message: To prevent an unnecessary backlog, can we develop a means to ensure a follow-through on all requests? Perhaps there is a preferred means to determine which requests are ready for closure? --Aarktica 22:11, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  On closing requests 

message: In light of the comments above, and the way WP:ASSIST is developing, I think EA can co-exist with AMA, for the following reasons:
*One good thing about EA is the fact that we don't ask users to file formal "Requests for assistance" and name other users as participants, like the AMA does. This, in itself, can be seen as a confrontational act, and can sometimes escalate a trivial dispute to a higher level. Because EA really just answers users' questions, I think there's a less confrontational atmosphere.
*On the other hand, I don't think the EA framework would be suitable for resolving more serious disputes, as we don't have formal "case files" and "assignments" in the same way. Nor would we be able, in the serious cases, to guide users through mediation at MedCom, or to offer help with arbitration cases. The AMA does have a role to play in those areas.
*So I think the two organisations can exist together in the hierarchy of WP:DR. Trivial cases, where a user is just a little confused about Wikipolicy and/or is in a minor content dispute, can come here, and we can give them help and advice without starting a big fight. More serious cases will be sent on from EA to AMA, or go straight to AMA.
I would also like to re-iterate that I am still a member of both organisations, and intend to remain so. Walton Vivat Regina! 15:33, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As I understand it when proposed, EA is fully meant to see people through Mediations and Arbcom cases. We simply haven't had such a case come to us to date. The purpose is not to be another help desk, but a place for experienced editors to work one-on-one with bewildered or confused users, just as AMA does. EA was not designed as a step below AMA but as an organisation equal to it, pulling out the redeemable parts and shunting the crap. Referrals of the kind you are speaking of sound like a phenomenally bad idea. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 15:51, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Much as I respect some AMA members, I'll be damned if I'll refer anything to the AMA: I believe it to be unwiki and a shockingly bad example for newbies. We can cope with DR on our own here minus the wikilawyering. Moreschi  Request a recording? 16:05, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

text: My view of EA is similar to what Dev described above. EA is essentially a more streamlined AMA, focused on assisting editors rather than advocating for them. Perhaps in some situations it will be necessary for a member of EA to act as an advocate in order to assist an editor, but this isn't the primary goal of EA. I believe the biggest flaw in AMA is that it's too closely modeled after a real-world legal system. I think it's more helpful to provide editors with assistance rather than WikiLegalRepresentation. Still, if AMA is successful in its housecleaning, I can see it existing as a viable group. Just my 2c. ChazBeckett 16:29, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Evaluation, and future plans

message: AMA members involved in discussions here, please, go back into our problems and let EA live in peace. OK? Editor Assistance has the right to exist, and to co-exist with AMA. And AMA has not the right to be the only assisting organization, do you understand? Attitudes like these are the ones that makes people think we're corrupt, useless, etc.
And good luck to all EA members! Hope we can work together in peace! --Neigel von Teighen | help with arbs? 16:03, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, Neigel. Good luck to you as well. ChazBeckett 16:06, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Thank you very much for that classy comment. Anchoress 07:15, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

text: And with the exception of archive pages, that is hopefully all we will ever need. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 19:29, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, this is something that does matter, because the AMA advocates are attempting to conquer EA. However, please would Neigel try to cool down a bit? The four words "go back to home" doesn't seem a good way to tell others to calm down. --Deryck C. 06:52, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Competition? That's kinda what the problem is here; people are viewing this as an organization set up to compete with the AMA. This is for when you need to ask some question, AMA is for when you need someone to help you with a dispute. That is competition with the AMA no more than RfC competes with Arbcom. -Amarkov moo! 15:32, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's not true, EA is intended to take on every type of case that comes to AMA. We just haven't got any complex ones yet. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 15:35, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, it is? I'm pretty sure the reason you're not getting complex cases is because people think you don't want them, then. I got the impression that this was just "please ask questions on stuff". -Amarkov moo! 15:44, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Actually, you're both right. AMA is when you want an advocate, this is when you want to sort out the dispute to everyone's benefit, and for general editorial assistance. Having said that, there's no reason why we can't tackle tricky cases: having said that, the University one on the requests page right now isn't entirely straightforward, and certainly needs more eyes than mine. These vexed questions of NPOV are tricky bastards :) Cheers, Moreschi  Want some help? Ask! 15:46, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If we aren't being clear about our work and casual viewers such as Amarkov are being mistaken, then potential clients, for want of a better word, probably are as well. Could we rewrite our front page accordingly please? Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 15:49, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  AMA advocates: stop dispute, be reasonable and go back to home 

message: wikipedia talk:Editor assistance - Many users have decided to stop, remove and deleted the discusion from an incomplete WP:RM poll/discussion. At issue is the rules of WP:VAN, WP:CON. Should changes to current policy be proposed? 18:58, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: comment: I believe it should be a preserved because it violates WP:VAN, if you remove other peoples comments. Conversations should be archived and no changes are necessary to the current policies in place. --CyclePat 18:58, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request for Comment on Policy and Convention and Removing comments 

message: Per all the comments above, there seem to be several wildly differing ideas about what EA actually is.
#Some users see it as simply better than AMA, and argue that it should replace AMA altogether.
#Some users see it as a "competitor" to AMA, handling the same kind of cases as AMA, but with different procedures and working methods, and an emphasis on advice rather than advocacy. The phrase "free market" has been brought up in this context, i.e. give users the choice, and let them decide which one they prefer to use.
#Some users see it as something that can coexist alongside AMA, only handling a different kind of case, i.e. the less serious cases. In this scenario, AMA would continue to handle cases that involved guiding users through mediation or arbitration.
#Some users (very much the minority) see it as a rebel group that needs to be integrated back into AMA.
I know this is a generalisation, and I apologise if I've wildly misrepresented anyone's views. But we need to decide which of the above we are actually aiming to achieve. Walton Vivat Regina! 19:58, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Blend of one and two. I'm opposed to the AMA existing, but that's rather irrelevant until/if the AMA does get shut down. If they can fix themselves, great. 2 best sums up our goal. No advocacy, just advice, comments, bringing people in line with the project's principles - and maybe a spot of DR now and then. Moreschi  Want some help? Ask! 20:25, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Agred. When the project was first mooted, its proposed title was "Editor Assistants". An Assistant was supposed to see a requester through anything from a tiff on a talkpage to an arbcom case as a support to explain how the procedure worked and what a requester's options were, and if people are being mistaken about that the we need to make it clearer on the main page. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 20:36, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I have a different view. I see Editor Assistance as the backup procedure, in case the next misc debate on the Association of Members Advocates choses to close that project. Having a lightweight process that has all the good elements still around would then be a Good Thing. --Kim Bruning 21:38, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I personally think that whatever was intended, if the AMA does not die, this will gravitate towards number 3. We have a grand total of zero processes that compete with each other, and I believe that there is a good reason behind that. -Amarkov moo! 05:43, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would definitely agree, there's no need for competition. If anything, the AMA's got a tremendous backlog right now, so hopefully this will take some pressure off of them by handling some things that would otherwise end up there. There's enough differences between the processes that each can easily serve a useful purpose, even if AMA does get things in order and there's no second MfD. And if there is, well, this way there's still a way for people to get some one-on-one help. Seraphimblade Talk to me 06:17, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Until then I first heard people saying EA are rebels from AMA, I never thought that EA could be a substitute for AMA. I just thought they were simply independent and irrelevant. --Deryck C. 08:31, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The trouble is that the AMA doesn't think EA is independent, and EA itself seems to be confused on the matter. It isn't simple; like I said earlier, some people want EA to replace AMA outright, some people want them to take on different roles, some people want to force EA into the AMA fold. Not to mention that, technically, EA aren't all rebels from AMA; I'm still in AMA as well as EA, and some EA members were never members of AMA in the first place (e.g. Moreschi). Sorry about the confusing discussion, but that's how it is. Walton Vivat Regina! 19:52, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: OK, so where do we stand?

message: As someone not involved in EA or AMA who has just been observing from the sidelines for a couple of days now, I've got some suggestions.  Take them or leave them as you see fit.
1. Leave the RfM in the archives - Yes, it was unwanted and it failed, but at this point having an archived record that someone tried this already and it snowed in two days might be a good link the next time someone tries it. 
2. Close the RfC above - because if #1 is acceptable, this isn't be necessary.
There is more that can and should be done, but that is a start.--Isotope23 20:15, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have to disagree with this. Normally I am fine with just archiving stuff, but the RfM poll was forced onto our pages, Pat edit warred to keep it here, tried repeatedly to reopen it, and then starting trying to force the remaining mess here agin with a discussion closed template. Personally, I don't consider the move poll to be a part of our archives so much as just another pawn in CyclePat's war against EA. In which case it simply doesn't belong here. Regarding the RfC, given that this issue has now been brought up on both AN/I and CN, RfC will pull in few people who haven't already commented. You may as well close it now. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 20:34, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Like I said, take it or leave it as you see fit... I can understand where you are coming from given some of what I've seen happening over the past few days (starting with a unilateral, undiscussed move).  Like I said above though, from the outside it looks like a good warning against future actions along this line.  Regardless, they were just suggestions and may end up being a moot point per WP:CN.--Isotope23 20:50, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Restoring some sanity here

message: The AMA got a case that I think is prefect for you all (it is a content dispute) and the editor who filed it wants advise on how to go about improving the article.  Here is the link if you all are willing to take it (The case ).  While I'm a member of the AMA I think you are all doing a fantasic job of making sure that the Community can get advice and assistance in order to resoulve the disputes.  Good luck! Æon Insanity Now! Give Back Our Membership! 04:28, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think if we do it we're gonna go to AMA and do it the AMA way, instead of bringing it here as another EA case. --Deryck C. 08:32, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, the editor has asked for help here anyway, see the request page. Seraphimblade Talk to me 08:44, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

text: If the EA is out of cases, I think I'll bring up a few articles for others to ponder with. --Deryck C. 12:41, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I hope so. There are, well, really quite a number of cases out there. I'll go and see. --Deryck C. 15:00, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Some jobs in the mediation cabal backlog may actually be more suited to EA. If you could filter those out, that would be a great start. --Kim Bruning 15:36, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No problem with that. Feel free to send 'em over. Cheers, Moreschi  Want some help? Ask! 18:31, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I also figured we are all here for the comunity of Wikipedia so up to you I have no qualms about other DR processes (I think you should all consider listing yourselves on the DR menu) snag cases that are either beter suited for you all or helping to clear a back log of another project.  Æon Insanity Now! Give Back Our Membership! 20:50, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We are on the DR menu (or at least on the infobox). We've had a fair few requests for assistance, but you're right, it would be helpful if we could pinch cases from other project's backlogs, as they all seem to have way too much work to do. The trouble is that most of the AMA won't like it if we go through their request files and offer EA help to those who've requested AMA help. Also, it puts me (as a member of both organisations) in a rather contradictory position, as new users wouldn't necessarily know whether I was offering them assistance or advocacy, and explaining the difference would likely cause further confusion. Walton Vivat Regina! 19:58, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why not Medcab, then? Maybe in some of those cases, jumping in to offer some advice would help solve the situation and eliminate the need for mediation at all. Seraphimblade Talk to me 20:09, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Snag um!  We (The AMA) don't wp:own the cases, if you all can help then by all meens you SHOULD take the case (Be bold, be very very bold).  I have nothing against EA (I think it is a wonderful idea) and to the AMA members that (might) give them static about taking cases, They are here to help so lets let them help in anyway they can and we are ALL Wikipeidians and we should NOT br working against EA rather helping them get started and ensuring that the community gets the best service possible (whether it is AMA or EA).  Æon Insanity Now! Give Back Our Membership! 22:40, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A case that I think is just right for you all 

message: Howdy! I've a case for you folks. This dispute has some history. The original mediator appears to have been permabanned, or at least banned for a lengthy period of time. Opinion on that keeps changing.
So the case went ignored for a few weeks at MedCab, probably because the person who requested a new mediator waited until just a few days ago to do so, and nobody at MedCab noticed. When I saw the request for a new mediator, I looked into the dispute, checked out the talk page, and discovered that the request for a new mediator was the only edit to either within the last month. So I closed the case as a dispute that'd died, and included in my comments my take on policy's relation to the dispute.
Curiously enough, a user who's position was supported by my closing comments has reopened the case anyway, requested another mediator and commenced arguing his point again. This I do not understand, but I humbly request that you folks take a look at the case, as I no longer feel that I would be welcome as mediator. --Moralis (talk) 16:47, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: MedCab Needs Backup

message: Do the members here consider this to be a WikiProject?  It kind of looks like one.  If so, would there be anything wrong with changing that name and formalizing this just a bit?  Proposed name:  WikiProject Editor assistance. --NThurston 16:50, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's no more a WikiProject then MedCab is. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 19:59, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's no more a WikiProject than Help Desk is. --Deryck C. 10:34, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Depends what you define as a WikiProject. It isn't listed in the WikiProject Council's directory. I don't think a change of name is necessary, but I doubt anyone would mind if you listed it under Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory/Wikipedia. Just my opinion. Walton Vivat Regina! 18:36, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Deryck makes a valid point with the Help desk analogy. As I see it, the goal of EA is to become an integral part of WP as a whole. Identifying as a WikiProject could give the appearance of some sort of clique/club, thereby undermining our efforts in the long run. On the other hand, WP:HD seems more community-oriented. --Aarktica 19:08, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Sounds like it is a Wikipedia administrative organization, but not a WikiProject.  --NThurston 13:38, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject? 

message: Is it possible for the EA to implement an automated system of archiving? I have seen pages in project space which have an automated archiving system. Perhaps the EAR could use one which archives items tagged been 'resolved' or 'stale' for a week or so? --Aarktica 13:17, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No objections, but in that case we need to write a bot which identifies stale/resolved tags. I think there are none here for the time being. --Deryck C. 02:45, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, we could just have the bot archive after, say, a week in which no one's commented in that section. That's stale enough, I would think, and would keep everything from having to be manually tagged-after all, if something's stale or resolved, people will quit commenting! If no one objects, I can put in a request for Miszabot to start archiving the page. Seraphimblade Talk to me 03:32, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would rather have a bot that archives based on the tags; however, if that option turns out to be unavailable, I would take the alternative. --Aarktica 12:53, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I also believe that tagged and untagged cases should be treated differently. Cases tagged with resolved or stale could be archived in a few days, but those without tags should not be moved until there's no discussion in 10~14 days. Miszabot doesn't understand the difference. --Deryck C. 06:27, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you available to create one which will meet these requirements? --Aarktica 22:22, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request for automation 

message: I just wanted to give everyone a hearty slap on the back for all their efforts to get this place going - it looks like it is thriving. :) Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 21:31, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you very much for the kind note. Cheers. --Aarktica 00:20, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Congratulations 

message: Could it be an idea to merge this place with WP:NUH? Especially as they already have the bot up and running, providing much of the same help? Several places providing basically the same functionality only serves to confuse new users IMO. Bjelleklang  -  talk Bug Me 12:08, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: EA is of a wider scope than that. It is a bit like Wikipedia:Reach out. NUH is specialized for newcomers, so I think the projects are quite irrelevant to each other. --Deryck C. 04:33, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merging with Wikipedia:New contributors' help page

message: Can we have a structure for the way requests are made? After reviewing sprawling requests and other undesirable submissions, I believe that the EA is best served by having terse requests. --Aarktica 22:34, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well we don't really want instruction creep... So it's better for the assistants to fix the issues, not the prefixed rules. Assistants should judge what to do. --Deryck C. 13:30, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Point of Information. 

message: FYI I was delighted to find just what I needed:
# I consider myself a pro on WP:NPOV, and do whatever I can to ensure that articles I contribute to follow this guideline. If you would like assistance on maintaining neutrality, or you require general grammatical assistance, formatting, etc... I am more than willing to help. I am not a believer in bias or spin.--RWilliamKing 18:00, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Help requests are best placed on the requests page. There is no guarantee that even an active editor will be able to reply to every talk page comment that comes their way each day. Adrian M. H. 12:29, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The editor above has placed a notice on my talk page (As I requested when I signed up.) And I've responded there. As an aside, perhaps we should make a note to check someone's contribution history (for activity) before asking for help on their talk page? - jc37 13:06, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

text: I will write something to the effect that they may not be active or in a position to respond promptly. Adrian M. H. 15:26, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Outdated List of Editors Section