Talk:Douglas Hofstadter

message: As pilinguality is not mentioned in Pi (what it links onto), maybe it could be explained here? Currently, this remark stays a little mystical. --Oop 20:49, Nov 11, 2004 (UTC)
:'he describes himself as "Pilingual", fluent in Pi languages' --Mporter 11:54, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I would guess he's playing that he knows somewhat more than 3 languages when he says that.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.212.30.130 (talk) 20:20, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Pilingual-ness 

message: I removed this part:
:Apparently, Idries Shah has attempted this, or at least something similar, with The Book of the Book ().
It seems that the book of the book is not really filled with reviews but rather with empty pages.  . Moreover, no non-wikipedia page mentions hofstadters name in connection to it. It seems to me it is rather unrelated. Sander123 12:25, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Book of the book 

message: Ok, I was bold and removed the dispute tag b/c there seems, to me, to be consensus that it is inappropriate. If I'm wrong, plz add it back (and explain why here). Thank you.  Zero sharp 00:55, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with removing the tag. Sander123 07:49, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Agree appears that Hofstadter was simply being churlish. --JayHenry 13:36, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Agree. Killick 03:04, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: removed

message: The "I have no interest in computers" and the part where the article seems to paint him as a skeptic of artifical intelligence give the wrong picture.  Nobody who's actually read his books could believe that Hofstadter does not want AI to succeed.  He is skeptical of many *current efforts* and *inflated claims* in AI but not of the basic goals of AI.
From page 519 of Le Ton Beau de Marot:
"Once one catches onto this trend of nonsensical exaggeration, it's enough to make one so cynical as to discount the entire endeavor of AI [...].   Not that *nothing* has been achieved [...] but just that small achievements and grandiose fantasies become so horribibly blurred into each other that the whole field is tainted [...].
"I find this very sad, because the quest to develop an artificially intelligent entity is a marvelous, mystical quest [...]"
I also question the part where it claims he doesn't think a computer could beat a human at chess must be some misunderstanding.  Hofstadter has written rather a lot rebutting John Searle's Chinese Room analogy.  It seems more likely that he would claim that, in principle, a computer could do what a human could do, while remaining skeptical of current efforts.
I recommend that anything in the Wikipedia article about Hofstadter's opinions should be verified against his own writings rather than against interviews with journalists. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.102.104.160 (talk) 6 May 2007
:Agreed.  I was taken aback by the claim in this article that "Hofstadter has long predicted that computers will never be able to do many of the things which humans can do."  That claim is uncited and seems inconsistent with everything of his that I have read.  I wonder if this is the sort of inaccuracy that he called "depressing" in the NY Times interview.  Also, the claim that he predicted that no computer would ever beat a human at chess is not cited with any reference to his own work.  The reference provided is to someone else's article about him.  That article asserts that Hostadter made the prediction in GEB, but it provides no specific page number.
: These claims seem so inconsistent with his views that they should not appear in the article without adequate citation.  I'm removing them. — Tyrrell McAllister 16:51, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Opinions about AI

message: This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 03:56, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject class rating

message: there isn't a bit of objectivity in the entire section.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.45.197.24 (talk) 05:31, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  the personal section is clearly biased. 

message: The article claims that Hofstadter speaks Russian fairly fluently. If that is true, it must be something he has learned recently. In the first paragraph of chapter 8 of Le Ton beau de Marot, Hofstadter states that his Russian is very poor. He writes, "I've never once had a conversation in Russian."
So has he learned Russian recently? Oz1cz (talk) 11:02, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Since Le Ton beau, he has learned Russian, partly with the aid of a tutor, though I don't think he'd call himself fluent. But, this is just my say-so from having taken a course with him about translations of Eugene Onegin. We should have a proper source for this, though I think the sentence should stand as-is (true but needs a citation). —Ben Kovitz (talk) 18:18, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The citation "Hofstadter, Douglas R. Le Ton Beau de Marot. New York: Basic Books, 1997, p. 627" orginally was introduced as being about Hofstadter's self-reported lack of fluency in Russian. It no longer serves the purpose of supporting a claim in the article, so I have removed it.  --Lambiam 17:11, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Russian? 

message: is it just me or does the personal section seem a bit....off?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dondoolee (talk • contribs) 00:47, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not seeing anything that pops out at me.  Could you clarify the point a bit? Looie496 (talk) 00:56, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

text: Most of the material in the Personal life section comes from things Hofstadter has said in his books, and doesn't strike me as out of place.  Some of the material in the Public image section could be classed as trivia, though. Looie496 (talk) 16:03, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Personal Section 

message: According to the naming conventions:
:"Generally, use the most common format of a name used in reliable sources: if that is with a middle name or an abbreviation, make the Wikipedia article title conform to that format. Examples: John F. Kennedy, Thomas John Barnardo, Annie M. G. Schmidt."
My copy of GEB is authored by Douglas R. Hofstadter. If he does go by the initial overall (in his other books, papers, et c), and it looks to me as if he does, I believe the article should be known as this as well. Quispiam (talk) 14:22, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Unless there is another Douglas Hofstadter, it makes no slightest bit of difference whether the article is Douglas Hofstadter and Douglas R. Hofstadter is a redirect, or vice versa. Looie496 (talk) 01:06, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: So why is for example Annie M. G. Schmidt an article while Annie Schmidt is a redirect? As per the Wikipedia standard, the most used form should be the article name. My question is not whether I understand the standards, it is whether the most used form is with or without the R. Quispiam (talk) 00:11, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

text: I just did a quick check of numbers of Google hits for each version of his name. "Douglas R. Hofstadter" gets 88,900 hits on Google, 1,510 on Google Scholar. "Douglas Hofstadter" gets 153,000 hits on Google, 2,970 on Google Scholar. —Ben Kovitz (talk) 00:42, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. So, what is the interpretation of "reliable sources"? The R use is more used on Google Scholar after all, and it is the format used on his books. Quispiam (talk) 00:26, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Actually, the R form was less common on Google Scholar as well as the main Google. I don't think this alone should decide the issue, but there it is. —Ben Kovitz (talk) 05:29, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

text: On nytimes.com, "Douglas Hofstadter" gets 300 hits, and "Douglas R. Hofstadter" gets 77 hits. —Ben Kovitz (talk) 05:50, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

text: Here's his Indiana University web page. He does not use the R form in his own bio. But, on his research center's list of publications, the R form is used consistently. Overall, it looks to me like the R form is what he uses when putting his name on a publication, while the plain form is the more common way that people to refer to him, though it's conceivable that more evidence could change that. —Ben Kovitz (talk) 05:50, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Sorry, I must have misread the Google numbers you gave me. Well, it seems evidently the R form is less used overall both by himself and by others, and both in the scientific and the public domain, so I forfeit. :) Quispiam (talk) 23:23, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Change name to Douglas R. Hofstadter 

message: Since when is this a profession?  Anyone who hangs out at an academy (e.g., a college or university) can accurately, if trivially be described as "an academic".
What does Hofstadter actually /do/ at his academy?  Is he a professor?  A member of a funded research group?  A lab technician?  A professional graduate student?  Or does he just hang-out barefoot on the campus quad, smoke dope, and write poetry on recycled napkins?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.92.174.105 (talk) 23:21, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: He's a professor at Indiana University. He teaches courses, advises Ph.D. students on their research, writes books and papers, and gives talks. Pretty standard for "an academic", plus he runs a small, funded research group, as noted in the article. Please click the link; a lab technician or writer of poetry on recycled napkins is not the ordinary meaning of "an academic". —Ben Kovitz (talk) 00:45, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  "American Academic" ?? 

message: Marek Lugowski   – computer scientist, editor, poet, translator of Polish poetry into EnglishHofsdtadter, Douglas R., "Fluid Concepts and Creative Analogies" (Preface), New York: Basic Books, , 1995.Hofstadter, Douglas R.,Le Ton beau de Marot: In Praise of the Music of Language ("Yo Dog!, a translation into rap by Marek Lugowski), New York: Basic Books, , 1979.Metamagical Themas: Questing for the Essence of Mind and Pattern (Iterated Prisoner Dilemma chapter, work of Marek Lugowski and Douglas R. Hofstadter at Indiana University Computer Science Department, 1982), New York: Basic Books, , 1985.
Most of the above was removed.  However, it maybe worth adding Lugowski is a poetry translator. as translating artist writing between language is one thing Hofstadter is interested in.Jonpatterns (talk) 15:26, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd be ok with "Computer scientist, translator" if there's a WP:RS that speaks to Lugowski doing more than occasional translations.  Garamond Lethetc 15:30, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

text: Hmmm.... this is interesting.  This page doesn't list Lugowski as a past Ph.D. student.  Lugowski's CV indicated that no doctorate was awarded.  Academic convention is that one only lists one's graduated and current Ph.D. students, so I'm going to remove Lugowski from the list.  Garamond Lethetc 15:42, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd be happy with "Computer scientist, translator" if someone was interested in adding Lugowski back in. Jonpatterns (talk) 16:03, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Marek Lugowski student 

message: There is an RfC on the question of using "Religion: None" vs. "Religion: None (atheist)" in the infobox on this and other similar pages. 
The RfC is at Template talk:Infobox person#RfC: Religion infobox entries for individuals that have no religion. 
Please help us determine consensus on this issue. --Guy Macon (talk) 17:05, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Template talk:Infobox person#RfC: Religion infobox entries for individuals that have no religion|Request for Comments]] 

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message: Why the list of doctoral students he's advised?  Most senior professors advise graduate students, and most of those students -- like most of Hofstadter's students -- are not particular notable.  So why burden an already overly long article with this list?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.89.176.249 (talk) 23:52, 20 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why students? 

message: A discussion is taking place to address the redirect :侯世达. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 August 21#侯世达 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  Steel1943 (talk) 10:10, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  "侯世达" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: Please other folks take a look here 
In this paragraph: 
‘Hofstadter collects and studies cognitive errors (largely, but not solely, speech errors), "bon mots", and ***analogies*** of all sorts, and his longtime observation of these diverse products of cognition. His theories about the mechanisms that underlie them have exerted a powerful influence on the architectures of the computational models he and FARG members have developed.[26]’
Analogies doesn’t make sense. Anomalies would. 184.170.166.16 (talk) 17:18, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Why doesn't that make sense? His interest in analogies is referenced throughout the article. His research group is even called the "Fluid Analogies Research Group", and he published a book titled Fluid Concepts and Creative Analogies. the wub "?!" 23:25, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible typo: analogies s/b anomalies?