Talk:Cyprus problem/Archive 3

message: Stop Vandalising this article and contribute properly.--Argyrosargyrou 22:31, 28 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism by E.A

message: New sections on Human Rights, Destruction of Culture Heritage and Missing Persons aspects of the Cyprus dispute added to main page. Long negotiations section moved here in order to shorten main article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus_Reunification_Negotiations
--Argyrosargyrou 20:32, 28 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Created new sections

message: Hello people,
so - shall we start on improving this article again? If anybody is indeed against JL's version of the article, please voice your concerns below, but try to make it a rational discussion (accusing people of GC/TC/GR/TR propaganda is not helpful). I will try to give a few recommendations - which can of course also be discussed and amended - here on how we shall edit the article in the future.
When editing, try to preserve a balanced view of the conflict, stating facts as facts, opinions as opinions. Try to always show both sides of the conflict (GC and TC, plus Greek and Turkish where appropriate) equally, as this in my opinion is what the conflict burnt down to today. If you cannot do this, state it in a neutral way (as in "Hundreds of Greek and Turkish Cypriots were killed"), and make a note on this talk page so somebody else can provide us with more accurate numbers. Implications of the British in this conflict will also be informative, so add where appropriate. But most importantly, before making any major edits, discuss them on this talk page. If nobody replies for some days, take it as a "yes". - Snchduer 16:39, 28 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Lets Start YET Again

message: I will start positively with a proposal on changing the table of the elections. I would like to scrap the second table, given the fact that the number of Turkish Cypriots is most likely inaccurate (no reliable numbers can be given on this one, I believe). Instead, I would like - as in most elections and votes - to include the percentages and the numbers of valid votes, as well as a third row with the totals, together with a note on the 40% thing; sth like this:
Referendum Result                          	Yes               	No                	 Turnout 
 northern part (Turkish Cypriot) 	64.90%            	35.09%            	87%
 northern part (Turkish Cypriot) 	xxx,xxx           	xxx,xxx           	xxx,xxx
 southern part (Greek Cypriot)   	 24.17% 	 75.83% 	88%
 southern part (Greek Cypriot)   	xxx,xxx           	xxx,xxx           	xxx,xxx
 Total                           	 xx.xx% 	 xx.xx% 	xx%
 Total                           	xxx,xxx           	xxx,xxx           	xxx,xxx
Note: About 60% of the residents of the self-declared TRNC are considered Turkish settlers and thus not legal residents by the Republic of Cyprus, and thus not entitled to vote
- Snchduer 16:56, 28 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Editing proposals

message: ===Agyro's Version - RoC POV===	 
	 
Since this page was never neutral when it was created and was highly politicised I have rewritten everything based on official neutral Republic of Cyprus documents which cover all of the major points of the Cyprus dispute. 	 
	 
The Cyprus dispute is essentially Turkey's illegal invasion of Cyprus in 1974 and its refusal to comply with UN resolutions and international law ever since and withdraw its troops. This has always been a Human not a political issue. The events that occurred before 1975 are not part of any international dispute so do not belong on this page. They belong on a separate history page which can be created later.	 
	 
The Cyprus dispute concerns human issues alone. These are the following	 
	 
*The Turkish Invasion	 
*Results of Invasion	 
*Refugees	 
*Missing Persons	 
*Enclaved	 
*Turkish Colonisation	 
*"TRNC" - An Illegal Entity	 
*Destruction of Cultural Heritage	 
 
Scheduler's descriptions of the UN negotiation process is a political issue so does not belong on this page so it has been removed. I will place it on a new page titled Cyprus Peace Process or any other title he is willing to suggest.	 
	 
Argyrosargyrou, If you're going to be neutral, then the issues would be better titled:	 
	 
*1974 Turkish Military Intervention	 
*Intervention Goals - Obstensive, Perceived, and Actual	 
*Inter-Communal populace displacement	 
*Aftermath of the Intervention and populace exchanges	 
*Demographic changes	 
*Turkish-Cypriot UDI	 
*Changes since UDI - Northern and Southern Cyprus	 
	 
Believe me, I'm making quite a few compromises in my principles in the above titles....--Expatkiwi 03:35 27 MAY 2005 (UTC)	 
::There is nothing wrong with neutral version. The only reason you want to discount the years before 74 is because it incriminates Greek Cypriots, which is why your "neutral" Republic of Cyprus documents will not cover them. To discount the years before is to suggest Turkey invaded Cyprus for no reason, when it was to prevent any more bloodshed that was caused by the Greek Cypriots. --E.A 09:09, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I object to using the version on the RoC homepage as a basis. It is not neutral, very one-sided, and does not cover the whole issue of the Cyprus dispute. The Cyprus dispute issue runs deeper than the 1974 invasion and after, which is why on the page JL wrote it starts even in the 19th century. - Snchduer 11:40, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree --E.A 15:57, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Past Tries on solving the editing war

message: Since this page was never neutral when it was created and was highly politicised I have rewritten everything based on official neutral Republic of Cyprus documents which cover all of the major points of the Cyprus dispute. 	 
	 
The Cyprus dispute is essentially Turkey's illegal invasion of Cyprus in 1974 and its refusal to comply with UN resolutions and international law ever since and withdraw its troops. This has always been a Human not a political issue. The events that occurred before 1975 are not part of any international dispute so do not belong on this page. They belong on a separate history page which can be created later.	 
	 
The Cyprus dispute concerns human issues alone. These are the following	 
	 
*The Turkish Invasion	 
*Results of Invasion	 
*Refugees	 
*Missing Persons	 
*Enclaved	 
*Turkish Colonisation	 
*"TRNC" - An Illegal Entity	 
*Destruction of Cultural Heritage	 
 
Scheduler's descriptions of the UN negotiation process is a political issue so does not belong on this page so it has been removed. I will place it on a new page titled Cyprus Peace Process or any other title he is willing to suggest.	 
	 
Argyrosargyrou, If you're going to be neutral, then the issues would be better titled:	 
	 
*1974 Turkish Military Intervention	 
*Intervention Goals - Obstensive, Perceived, and Actual	 
*Inter-Communal populace displacement	 
*Aftermath of the Intervention and populace exchanges	 
*Demographic changes	 
*Turkish-Cypriot UDI	 
*Changes since UDI - Northern and Southern Cyprus	 
	 
Believe me, I'm making quite a few compromises in my principles in the above titles....--Expatkiwi 03:35 27 MAY 2005 (UTC)	 
::There is nothing wrong with neutral version. The only reason you want to discount the years before 74 is because it incriminates Greek Cypriots, which is why your "neutral" Republic of Cyprus documents will not cover them. To discount the years before is to suggest Turkey invaded Cyprus for no reason, when it was to prevent any more bloodshed that was caused by the Greek Cypriots. --E.A 09:09, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I object to using the version on the RoC homepage as a basis. It is not neutral, very one-sided, and does not cover the whole issue of the Cyprus dispute. The Cyprus dispute issue runs deeper than the 1974 invasion and after, which is why on the page JL wrote it starts even in the 19th century. - Snchduer 11:40, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Agyro's Version - RoC POV

message: I make a counter-proposal, namely to use JL's version as a basis for the article. It is not perfect, but it is quite neutral, even though it does not mention all the important facts. Yet I think it can be easily extended to a good article. - Snchduer 11:40, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree --E.A 15:57, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  JL's version 

message: The reason its gone quiet here is because his simply moved his POV stuff to a new article called Cyprus Issue, same old accusations and denials...--E.A 21:06, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow, that one really reads like a GC propaganda page, surpasses even the RoC government page, I guess. Guess his article will be deleted in no time. - Snchduer 11:04, 28 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Right I was. Article has just been tagged as copyright violating... - Snchduer 17:00, 28 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Argyrosargyrou has created new article: Cyprus issue

message: As a Turkish Cypriot i have not even began to scratch the surface with what Greek Cypriots did to the Turks, i have had family shot and killed, i have relations who have lost their entire family, watched their sons shot, watched their brothers killed, had their fathers shot it the back. I have family who recount 120 people from their village being rounded up and shot in reponse to Turkey invading in 74. I could fill this article with information like this all day, but like your compatriots you choose to ignore these and spread bollocks all day. --E.A 20:41, 28 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Argyrosargyrou