Talk:Mudaliar

message: REGARDING KAIKKOLAR AND MUDALIS
It may be noted here that the terms above refer to only positions and not to caste. the word kaikkolar means one belonging to a regiment. any one can belong to a regiment . similarly mudali means an supervisor or an official. this again does mot indicate caste. Thre by it is proven beyond doubt that the hordes of "mudaliyar" ,"pillai" came to existence after 16th century and are obscure in origin(probably stemmed from jains/buddists). they certainly do not point to caste amd a vedic one at that. hohe of the inscriptions of ancient dynasty describe these castes. 
There is another good story behind the origin of these races. During last phases of dwapara age sage ugrasarvas explains to pandavas that in the age of kali many demons will be born in earth as human beings. They will be born into different human castes like brahmins, vaisyas,kshatriyas, sudras etc and colonize different parts of the world. They create confusion and wreak havoc by spreading lies far and wide. They indulge in all kinds of wicked activities to ensure maximum assault on truth. Thereby in the age of kali o bharatas !adherence to one's duty alone can bring one closer to salvation. 
 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.162.175.45 (talk) 12:26, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: References for Kaikolar/Sengunthar

message: In the book Some Marriage Customs in Southern India: Deformity and Mutilation, Uralis ... - Page 141 By Thurston. E., the author Edgar Thurston describes the devadasi custom of Kaikolars(weavers) as follows:
Quoted from book :
A custom prevails among the Kaikolars (weavers) by which one woman in each family becomes a prostitute, while retaining her caste. The girl chosen is taken to the temple where a sword is placed beside her with a tali (marriage badge) under it. The tali is then tied round her neck by any woman present and she returns to her own house where she is permitted to carry on any amours she chooses. She gets her share of the family property just as as if no such ceremony had taken place.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.97.250.141 (talk) 04:20, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Kaikolars(weavers)reference:  Some Marriage Customs in Southern India: Deformity and Mutilation, Uralis ... - Page 141 By Thurston. E. 

message: Pls cite a reference that shows Vallal Sadayapa was a Kongu Vellala gounder. ShivNarayanan (talk) 02:00, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Require ref for Sadayappa Mudaliar

message: Etymology and definition of words Mudali and Mudaliar.
Glosssary section:
Caste and Capitalism in Colonial India: The Nattukottai Chettiars By David West Rudner
ShivNarayanan (talk) 02:02, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Mudaliar/Mudali

message: Karaiyar, a fishing community also uses Mudali title
Ref:Caste, Nationalism and Ethnicity By Jacob Pandian
JSTOR: Political Emblems of Caste Identity--Sureshmaran (talk) 06:21, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Karaiyar using Mudali title 

message: In the Book "Rural Society in Southeast India" By Kathleen Gough, it is shown that mudaliar was a
title 
Again it is shown clearly the difference between the caste and the title in the book "Uproot Hindutva "By Thirumaavalavan, Meena Kandasamy
Caste meant a profession and mudali was just a title again
Rajah of Cochin was also awarded this title. It is shown in the book "Jews in India" By Thomas A. Timberg
It can't denote a particular caste as shown in the references --Sureshmaran (talk) 14:17, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Mudaliar was also used to represent a caste: Glosssary section:
Caste and Capitalism in Colonial India: The Nattukottai Chettiars By David West Rudner. ShivNarayanan (talk) 16:34, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mudaliar is a title and not a caste 

message: In the list of Backward classes, there is not a single caste mentioned as Mudaliar. It's a caste title of about six or more castes. They may intermarry among them. But the benefits such as reservation comes only under their caste name and not under Mudaliar making it clearly a title--Sureshmaran (talk) 00:25, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mudaliar is a title and not a caste 

message: Nowadays Mudaliar is more a community, with some specific castes using this title than a caste. It is not right to call it a caste. It is a community of castes such as Arcot thuluva Vellalars, Sengunthars, Vellalars and its sub-divisions--Sureshmaran (talk) 03:29, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You gotta source? -- The Red Pen of Doom 03:39, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

text: The government website source, as such, could be used to claim the description "backward class" but not "Community"" We report what the source actually says, not an interpretation.The "Castes" book linked through google books is actually just a Wikipedia mirror and not a reliable source (notice the WP as the author at the end of the article entry)  -- The Red Pen of Doom 05:07, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Mudaliar, a community

message: I suggest one image for a field for the images in infobox. Any other suggestions are welcomed--Sureshmaran (talk) 04:46, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox images 

message: I tried to make this section make more sense, as, I assume, did the editor before me, but it needs a dedicated re-write.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chamberlian (talk • contribs) 18:27, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Gatti Mudaliar

message: you seem to have been responsible for most of the significant changes in the last year but you do not explain what was wrong with the sources that existed before your involvement - you just "rewrote" it. Isn't there an issue with WP:NPOV here? - Sitush (talk) 15:54, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Forget the above - I was looking at the wrong diff. - Sitush (talk) 15:58, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Changes in the last year 

message: Clearcut understanding  of the title for viewers Kavin Mudaliar (talk) 17:50, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  We do not need mention karaiyars,  a sri lanka tamil caste just use it for social mobility.  So delete that for viewer's clear and simple understanding  of mudaliar  title.  In the view of karaiyar, we add senai mudali,  kerala mudali, nanjil mudali,  agamudaya(tuluva vellala)mudali,  saiva vellala, they are rights to use it. But they are very meagre in  population  compared  to sengunthar. So we edit it mostly kaikola sengunthars, rarely few communities 

message: Respectable persons,  i need to edit as,  
The title used by"Senguntha kaikolar, Thondaimandala Vaelalar, Agamudayar(i.e., thuluva vaelalar and arcot mudaliar).
    There is also  Karaiyar mudali, senai mudali,  melakkara mudali, nanjil mudali, kerala mudali, jaina mudali in samall ranges Kavin Mudaliar (talk) 11:42, 27 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Need to mention the exact users of 'mudali' 

message: Please search google in arcot mudaliars.  We dont miss it.  Because  arcot mudaliars are  dubashis,  educationalists,  rich persons  in british  empire  rhey are subsect of thuluva vaelalar  called them selves arcot mudali. (See tn forward  caste list)
It is surprise  to you donot know them they are very prosperous and unavoidable.  Plrase serch arcort narainasamy mudaliar,  ramasamy mudaliar.  Thuluva vaelalar  called themselves  agamudaya  mudaliar. I am not agamudayar  but i wish to notice clearly of mudaliar  page  so. 
Similarly  kerala mudali nanjil mudali(please  see tn bc list),  senai mudali(search senaithalaivar ) melakkara r(isaivaelalar ) some jains in tanjore.   They are small but significant. We donot neglect them. Kavin Mudaliar (talk) 06:52, 28 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Agamudayar  mudaliar 

message: No castes used it as tool for social  upliftment.  In tamilnadu  govt backward  caste list you will see kerala  mudali, nanjil  mudali. All the casres are traditional  users.  Please show  error  picture in the mi d of wiki viewers. Karaiyars  donot use it primarily. Kavin Mudaliar (talk) 02:51, 29 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Kavin Mudaliar. Thank you for opening a discussion at the talk page. However, there are major issues with your editing. The sources you have used such as  are not reliable sources (you need to be familiar with WP:RS). You have also added other content not supported by either your sources or other sources in the article (Senaithalaivar, Nanji Mudali etc.). Your edits are heavily based on your point of view and original research, which is unwanted in Wikipedia articles. You must get consensus before making such edits, otherwise it will lead to edit warring which is also unwanted on Wikipedia. Please read carefully through the links before any further edit. Xenani (talk) 16:39, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think if a there's a source resp. evidence then I'd say it's not correct to remove it. What user Kavin Mudaliar is basically trying to push his view. It contains original research for me. --Luigi Boy ルアイヂ ボイ talk 20:42, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other communities 

message: No castes used it to represented  themselves superior. Ochan,  gadaba, panisava,  vanniyars are now donot use mudali title. So we donot  mentioned  the line. Because  we show exact and smart picture of mudaliar  in viewers mind. Kavin Mudaliar (talk) 03:25, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you please provide a source for your claim? It seems to me you're a little bit biased. Personal opinions don't count only facts! Thanks! --Luigi Boy ルアイヂ ボイ talk 17:12, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Castes donot use mudali  as tool for social  mobility 

message: Actually all vellalar donot use it. Only saivavellalar, thuluva vellalar use it. Other vellalars use pillai, gounder titles predominantly than mudaliar. Only thondaimandalam saiva, thuluva vellalar use it. I need to mentioned it. Kavin Mudaliar (talk) 08:25, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vellalar mudaliar 

message: In tamilnadu  karaiyar known  as one sect of pattanavan which is fishermen community. Also the citation said they 'adopted 'it. Aldo they donot known  as mudaliar  in tamil country. They known  as pattanavan not mudaliar. It is my view to give clear idea to the viewers  of wikipedia. it is unnecessary to mingle them into mudaliar. Kavin Mudaliar (talk) 08:28, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Karaiyar 

message: It is wrong to mentioned as other communities use it for need  high status from  actually held. Now no communities use like it. You said communities are ovachar, gadaba, panisiva, palli, jain. They donot use and donot known as mudaliar. Then why do hurt them. No other wiki pages like pillai, gounder, chettiar, are donot  do it. So it is unnecessary Kavin Mudaliar (talk) 08:56, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: You can't remove sourced content, especially without consensus. You are again and again edit warring. You will most probably be blocked again if this continues.  None of your statement has been properly cited with reliable sources, and are mostly based on original research. I understand you are new to wikipedia but you have to get familiar with the policies mentioned over (and earlier) before further editing. Xenani (talk) 21:59, 28 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other communities 

message: Where is the sourcefor agamudayar. Then why you mentioned  them in first. Also all agamudayar donot use it. Kavin Mudaliar (talk) 04:26, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Agamudayar 

message: Karaiyar comeunder ceylonese mudaliar. In tamilnadu  pattanavan 's one sect karaiyar. This karaiyar is different  from thqt karaiyar. They are ceylonese mudaliar. Tamilnadu  karaiyar  are pattanavan  not mudaliar. 
Also the citations  said they ADOPTED  it. So thwy come under other communities. Ok Kavin Mudaliar (talk) 04:29, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: This is an article which elaborates the term Mudaliar so far the Ceylonese title comes also under this term because it shares common origin resp. idea. Only because a statement is not mentioned in a source of yours, it doesn't mean that the statement is incorrect. Your current interpretation of this title as a caste designation term doesn't mean that those communities who adopted it first have the ultimate sole right to bear it. Please refrain from any kind of fancy synthesis resp. own interpretation of sources. --Luigi Boy ルアイヂ ボイ talk 16:04, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Karaiyar 

message: Agamudaya Mudaliar reference and link to Agamudayar page is wrong. 
Agamudaya Mudaliar is the Title used by the caste Tuluva Vellala; not Agamudayar of south TN. 
Periyarist (talk) 18:52, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Agamudaya Mudaliar 

message: Hi, looks like a random split was made at Mudaali. It did use this source: The caste and tried of southern india and tibes of southern india edgar thurston (1909) which I don't know if it is suitable/used or whatever. The rest of the info is already on this page. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:57, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mudaali source