Talk:Nagual

message: support Two spellings for the same idea. I've seen it more commonly with a "g" in both English and Spanish, so I think it should get merged here.--Rockero 04:23, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: support I'd agree that Nagual should be the destination.--cjllw | TALK 09:22, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  commentInterestingly, this article mentions a late 19'th century book that references Nahual in a manner similar to the one Castaneda meaning of 'a person of power' and in the article itself it mentions something similar to the earlier Castaneda contrast of 'tonal' (our normal world) and 'nagual' (a world containing the tonal but which also contains those things which can't be expressed in language).  L. Greg 06:25, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I have changed my vote to support because I have now split out Castañeda related material into its own article at Nagual (Castañeda). Nagual is the most commonly used spelling for the concept in mesoamericanistics so I think both concepts should be treated here.
Oppose Nahual in this entry should be more about the supernatural shapeshifting spirit that is believed to exist in some areas of rural Mexico.   Examples of Nahuales are like warewolves or vampire bats, though the larger meaning would encompass "Spirit Animals".  Nagual, on the other hand, is part of the same cultural traditions but is not the same thing.  Naguales are healers, witchdoctors, sorcerers, "Men of knowledge".  Though some naguales may claim that they can transform into nahuales or have the knowledge to create nahuales, the definitions are clearly distinct.  I think this entry should definitely be cleaned up as it does confuse these two DIFFERENT ideas, but given that these two different entities are NOT the same, the articles should not be merged. P.S.- The Indian tribe spelled "Yaki" on this page is wrong.  It is spelled "Yaqui". ~~Flora (This comment by USer:65.98.196.2 moved here from Talk:Nahual)
oppose There are no references to Nahual in the books by Carlos Castaneda. There are references to the believe that Nagualist can shape shift, though this would not conform to the definition of shape shifting into werewolves or vampires. It should not be assumed that there is a bodily transformations from a man into any creature by Naguals. These transformations are due to a shift in consciousness or perception. movements of the assemblage point either through heightened awareness or dreaming. These are the actions of the 'double", a spiritual self that can be witnessed by those in ordinary life. Other transformations were also cited in the text including transformations into inorganic beings similar to allies and entities.--76.235.43.50 (talk) 03:47, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger 

message: I got really tired of looking at both of those really misinforming pages and boldly rewrote the whole thing and completed the merger. In doing so I put the Castañeda related material in a new article called Nagual (Castañeda). I think this puts us a step forward.·Maunus· ·ƛ· 11:46, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good call, Maunus.--cjllw | TALK 01:29, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Rewrite

message: All I want to know is why Knowl redirects to this article.  The article makes no reference to anything called a "Knowl".  
-Knowl-
Saturday October 4, 2008  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Knowledge Incarnate (talk • contribs) 10:18, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Theres no reason. I've nominated the redirect for deletion. Maunus (talk) 06:28, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Knowl?

message: Someone changed the animal from "Donkey" to "Owl" but left no explanation or citation yet. Can anyone confirm which is correct?
 
-Knowl  -<(I am questing for Knowledge!) (talk) 06:53, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The most common is donkey I will source this to Nutini& Roberts later today. ·Maunus·ƛ· 12:41, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The ref checks out - donkey is correct see here. Mesoamerican culture has had 500 years to assimilate old world animals into its beliefs. Simon Burchell (talk) 12:09, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Donkey Versus Owl

message: Has anyone seen anything published linking Mimbres culture, and other similar prehistoric pottery from the SW US, to the nagual tradition? It seems like an obvious link. 
Huh. I can only find one Mimbres pottery photo at Commons, and no SW nagual-analogs. But see, forex, the third bowl here.
Incidentally, there's a nice Tonala nagual plate at . I'll ask the photographer for permission to use it here, as we currently have no contemporary nagual photos. Cheers, Pete Tillman (talk) 19:39, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mimbres fantastic animal-people as naguals? 

message: The following comments were left in the actual article, however they belong here in the discussion section so I'm pasting them here for the good doctor.  I would like to note for Dr. Porter, should he return, that wikipedia is edited by multiple authors and as long as he can cite valid sources then all of this can be fixed. -Knowl  -<(I am questing for Knowledge!) (talk) 04:34, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: From the Doc

message: By Daniel G. Brinton, published 1894, Nagualism A Study in Native American Folk-lore and History
Nagualism by Daniel G. Brinton
About Mr. Brinton
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_G._Brinton
--Toltec Guardian  13:57, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Its already in the bibliography.·Maunus·ƛ· 17:09, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  A valuable reference for those discussing this subject. 

message: So I attached an image to the article, but I am unable to see it on my work computer. It works on other comptuers. Is anybody else having problems seeing this? If I can't fix it and others are unable, I'll take it down.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Snickeringshadow (talk • contribs) 10:55, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I can see the image just fine. Maybe the problem is with your PC? Simon Burchell (talk) 16:16, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  image problems 

message: That's really confusing. It's already established as a Pre-Columbian Native American practice, so is this wikipedia article trying to tell me that the Christian devil was an accepted fact of Native American religious traditions?
Edit: I just read the cited source and specific page, they make no mention of a devil on that page at all. I decided to not try to change anything, since your moderators here act like hateful bullies intimidating people with suspensions and bans for any amount of factual evidence given with criticisms against their beliefs. In any case, Page 43 doesn't say anything about Naguals and only mentions Nahuals and doesn't specify anything about devil worship of any kind. It says there's male and female Nahual names and that the superstitions preach that theirs a tradition that changing into animals is passed down from family or by someone who willingly or is coercively forced to teach it (specifically in its captured animal form) according to the book. 
https://books.google.com/books?id=dJt24_8iKbwC&pg=PA39&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=4#v=onepage&q&f=false --69.126.88.42 (talk) 06:20, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why does it say Nagualism made pacts with the devil and link to European folklore? 

message: I removed a spurious Castanada quotation which was actually sourced to somebody's self-published blog. Can't find the first part of the sentence in Castaneda or any reliable source, only Wikiclones. Skyerise (talk) 12:42, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spurious Castaneda quote