Talk:Gdańsk/Archive 3

message: Are you in favour of the proposed naming compromise (the city referred to as Danzig in the 1793-1945 period, Gdansk otherwise)?
YES
*john 09:16, 24 Jan 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: January voting on compromise proposal

message: Economy of Gdansk has moved to Economy of Gdansk. Please write a short summary about the economy of Gdansk, five sentences would be great. 
Even after outsourcing, this article has still more than 34kB which cannot be handled by many browsers.
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Then maybe we do not need tons of book references in Polish, if you have problems with the page size? Nico 07:27, 3 Feb 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: well, the argument is that cities that changed their names are different from cities which translate their names, or where the dominant translation changes, or whatever.  john 17:14, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think that is a quasi argument. Nico 17:22, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we sometimes forget our responsibility to history when we worry about modern individuals.  Whether or not someone's grandmother cares to recognize the name of the city that was in place when she was born there (no offense intended to any user or their family), the fact is that there were thousands and thousands of people who lived and died under that name.  Keeping track of a city name that was in use for less than a decade, I can understand setting aside, but when we're talking about centuries, I think in fairness to the long-since dead (who have no one's close allegiance to give them voice here), we need to represent the names historically.  I certainly understand the concerns of the Polish editors, but in this instance I think we need to be fair to those who lived in that city long before we and our grandmothers. Jwrosenzweig 17:29, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)

text: SC, sorry, I wasn't thinking about Lwow here but Gdansk...I've been following this conversation loosely for months and hadn't realized Lwow was added as a point of discussion rather than simply as a similar example (obviously I skimmed your entry too quickly).  Sorry about that.  Your comments about Lwow...I don't feel qualified to respond to, as I am less familiar with its history than that of Gdansk.  I think trying to settle the very different issues of two very different cities might be unwise on one talk page, but I am certainly not blaming anyone for this, and offer it as a thought.  The argument here for a number of months was between Poles (who used their status as Poles to bolster their argument....not wrongly, in my opinion) -- I thought that I had remembered you as one of them, and apologize if I cast any aspersion on you, though it occurs to me that to be mistakenly thought Polish is no insult, but simply an error on my part (and one which I will not commit again).  I understand that the history of Lwow is one filled with troubles and emotions that I am by no means even partially aware of, so I won't respond, except to say again that I had thought the discussion here at Talk:Gdansk was focused essentially on the city of Gdansk, and if this fact has changed in recent weeks, I apologize for not having kept better track of it.  I hope these are satisfactory responses: I still hold to my original posting re: Gdansk, but will instantly yield the field if Lwow is being discussed. Jwrosenzweig 19:59, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Economy

message: Ok, this page is about a fifth of Recent Changes, for "fixes" to its first sentence, largely due to the name of the city.  Does this need to be protected again?  Or can we play nicely?  Pakaran. 03:54, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see what the problem is, or why this page has to be "protected". Why can't we just say that certain people call the city Gdansk and certain other people call it Danzig? Why all the reversions?
Is someone trying to get Wikipedia to say that the "real" or "proper" or "current" name of the city is G. or D.? If so, then that person is the problem and should be ignored or, if necessary, asked to leave.
In all cases of controversy, and this is clearly a controversy! -- the Wikipedia must not and cannot take sides. The article cannot endorse any viewpoint, even something as small as what is the name of the city.
You guys really piss me off! I've read the article and the talk pages and page history so many times, but all I can remember is the fussing and fighting, the threats to revert the page or quit the project!!
I know more about which users fought each other than about which historians or ethnic groups or governments gave WHAT NAME to the city in question!!!!
So:
*I am unprotecting the article.
*I am putting it on my watchlist.
*I will find a way to settle the "name controversy" once and for all
Forcefully,<BR>
Ed Poor, aka Uncle Ed
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This is historically the first time, that I agree with you on all counts, Uncle Ed. Space Cadet 15:36, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)

text: Oh my, oh my... Let's see what happens...Halibutt
Sigh, Ed, I must say that I do not like your version.  In the first place, everyone agrees that the city's current name is "Gdansk".  Of course, earlier in its history it was frequently known as "Danzig".  The question is the best way to indicate this.  I, of course, think that my way, which actually explains the situation (that it was usually called Danzig before 1945) is the best, but I think an article which tries to claim that both names are equally valid today is simply wrong.  As to the edit war, that had nothing to do with the disputes going on on the talk page, which I think were basically simmering down.  What happened was that a [name for user trying to cause trouble deleted], user:Gdansk, decided to start messing with the article in order to minimize the importance of the name Danzig by flooding the article with other, hardly used, names.  I won't edit the introduction just yet, but I think the current version is quite poor. john 18:56, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)

text: Good for you, John! I don't know a thing about Danzig or Gdansk or whatever it's called, except what I've read right here at Wikipedia. I'm counting on people like you and Wik and Space Cadet and Delirium and everyone else to contribute content. All I do is copy-edits and pray for world peace :-) --Uncle Ed 19:37, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Name of the City