Talk:Kent Desormeaux

message: Not sure if we should add that he has recently entered treatment: see http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/212195/desormeaux-confronting-alcohol-problem Jlvsclrk (talk) 04:45, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I think if it's handled with respect,  perhaps as a part of a rewrite of what's in there already about his personal life, that whole section needs a rewrite, frankly (I think he has kids, etc..). Basically WP:BLP is the policy that applies, in that anything controversial about a living person needs to be well-sourced, and for this, Blood Horse is -- it's not the National Enquirer.  Be nice if we could paint a better picture of the whole person.  (FWIW, I took Rosie Napravnik to good article status, I think that's the only GA we have on a jockey).  Feel free to dive in and see what you can do; I'll lurk and fix anything that looks like it's going off the tracks.  Montanabw(talk) 06:21, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, . I've taken a first stab at it. Do you think the article should be re-ordered? Seems weird to have Personal Life sandwiched between two sections on his career. The brother Keith bit should probably moved to Personal Life unless we tie it to Exaggerator's career. It's a bit confusing trying to figure out what's personal and what's business sometimes!Jlvsclrk (talk) 23:03, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

text: I did a second round of edits and additions. I think the structure makes a bit more sense now, though still needs a lot of work.Jlvsclrk (talk) 02:45, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

text: Hi again, Montanabw. I think I've got round one of this completed, although there's still a big blank in the mid-2000s. At this point, I need some feedback on where to go next and style issues - I tend to be a bit verbose and keep wanting to build suspense; not the best thing for an encyclopedia! Oh, and should we shorten the section on his triple crown / BCC mounts? It's helpful now, if only to give updaters a clue of what horses to be looking at when tracking his career. But later, it's a bit of an eyesore IMO. But maybe its the standard?? Jlvsclrk (talk) 07:17, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I'd chop the entire "Triple Crown mounts, results" and Breeders' Cup sections.  Lists like that are discouraged (you can save the work by putting the list at the talk page or something) and no one really cares about the races someone didn't win unless it is some kind of record for the most races ridden or a longevity record of some kind. You can list his wins and near-wins (Like losing the triple crown on Real Quiet), but the rest gets to be overdone. I'll do a light copyedit and you can see what I am doing to destroy tighten the prose.  Montanabw(talk) 07:50, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Treatment 2016 

message: Completed June 10: Changed race section order in Infobox per Rosie N entry. Grouped by grade, verified years won and added a few, then went through other grade 1 races to find missing bit races (there were quite a few). Wound up putting San Juan Capistrano as G1 since that's what it was when he won. Mostly used the current names of races (eg, with the Norfolk/FrontRunner, went with FrontRunner since he won under both names).
o/s: would like to research on his stints in Japan further. He seems to have done quite well so there may be more than the Yoshum Himbo, though that's the most prestigious I don't doubt). Update from Jlvsclrk (talk) 21:55, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: There isn't really a hard and fast rule set, so I'd say do what works. If you wikilink all the races, that helps with the switching names problem. (and if no article on the race, it may not be worth including. My approach is to just list the graded stakes wins, prioritizing the G1s, and I'd be generous -- G1 at the time would be fine, or if not then but now, that's OK too. I use equibase's list of graded stakes wins for my sources, and yeah, for these Hall of Fame guys, you generally don't need to bother with the G3s or even all the G2s. For international races, see how we did that at Gary L. Stevens, who has a lot of international wins.  Montanabw(talk) 05:43, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey, just FWIW, we technically aren't supposed to remove stuff from an article talk page, even our own, because it messes up the flow of conversation.  (we can do whatever we want, mostly, on our own talk pages, but not on the article ones)  If something is done, we can strike it out to show that it can be ignored. Minor rule, but on some articles, people can get super upset about it (no worries this time from me) Montanabw(talk) 05:41, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox - Races 

message: * early years, new source http://www.nola.com/horseracing/index.ssf/2016/05/kentucky_derby_2016_the_pride.html with interesting details
* mid 2000s, find out more on success in Japan 2001, 2005. don't have anything for 2006-7
* stakes wins - check out winners list for Secretariat Stakes, Madison, shadwell turf mile specifically, and G1s out east in general - he rode on east coast for several years from 2006-201?) so may be more of these done 6/10
Jlvsclrk (talk) 20:09, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Done but it looks like we've had a vandal attack. Should I revert? Jlvsclrk (talk) 09:43, 18 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Always.  That same little twerp is making a huge mess across multiple articles now and we need all hands on deck.  Montanabw(talk) 07:47, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  To do list 

message: Masai giraffe (talk) 12:46, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: as you have not made a request in the form "Please replace XX with YY" or "Please add ZZ between PP and QQ".Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 16:12, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

text: This is probably that anon IP who was doing the same thing earlier.  Montanabw(talk) 21:30, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 24 July 2016 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Since we've had a few edits lately on the record number of wins in a year by Kent, the correct number is 598 per his Hall of Fame bio, DRF, any other place you care to look. There _was_ a court case to review a disqualification, but that changed the number from 597 to 598. Two relevant sources: Ends Year with 597 (Post) Times - court case. Jlvsclrk (talk) 15:34, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems that the ip is edit warring, i counted 8 reverts by the ip today. Chip3004 (talk) 03:37, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  598 

message: According to multiple sources, they claim the injury actually happened. But equibase, which is cited in this article and is the official supplier of racing info and is accredited by many racing sources as reliable says he raced after the fall same day and day after. 8 races counted in all. I need a consensus of how many people think the “injury” should be removed cause it’s debunked by a credible source, many sources that wrote about the injury distort actual facts. They can’t get numbers right half the time and that’s probably a red flag.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joytotherainbow (talk • contribs) 23:26, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Equibase doesn't "debunk" numerous articles that describe the injury, especially in this article where he discussed the injury after the fact. OhNoitsJamie Talk 23:34, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Equibase has records, records debunk. He would not have been written down for 8 races after the injury, sources talking about something doesn’t mean it’s true. Having a son born 5 days after your accident sounds like a Hollywood story. Joytotherainbow (talk) 00:57, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  Your argument that a single stat record somehow "debunks" multiple reliable sources, including a Sports Illustrated interview with the subject does not hold water. OhNoitsJamie Talk 01:52, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Believe what you want, I refuse to believe a database that’s the official supplier of racing info would have written him down as the jockey, reliable sources sometimes make stories up, they probably went off the story, the story changes saying he was alert and talking to doctors, one interview kent says he remembers being kicked, this source says he remembers tumbling the ground then nothing. Which one is it? Joytotherainbow (talk) 03:27, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  You can believe whatever you want. As there are three strong reliable sources for that material, I suggest that you move on. OhNoitsJamie Talk 15:52, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I will tell anyone my findings on equibase and discourage Wikipedia, they can ignore evidence that is presented right in front of them that debunks it. Joytotherainbow (talk) 18:47, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

text: On the topic of Equibase as a source, it is of course our the official database of North American racing. BUT errors happen with all sources. Keep in mind that Equibase was not created with the internet in mind, and all the data you see on line from before 1995 was converted from offline archives. (You can see this for example in the absence of the full chart notes). People who have dealt with conversions can appreciate how errors creep in during the process. So, yes, the database shows that Desormeaux continues to have mounts on the rest of the card after the fall and on the next day, then abruptly stops riding for six weeks. The databse record of those rides is contradicted by MULTIPLE sources - remember that he was the leading jockey in North America at the time and was going for an earnings record so this was fairly big news. Jlvsclrk (talk) 23:12, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: What sources, show me the link, they claim he was replaced by riders the following day, not on those horses in equibase’s records. Offline archives probably come from WRITTEN RECORDS. the horses that he was “ taken off “ show he did not ride them. And a jockey going for earnings record, falls and nearly dies from fall, becomes a dad shortly after, goes home on Christmas sounds way too good to be true. If equibase wasn’t meant for online use it wouldn’t be here. Sources also change info about the fall and don’t fact check. Joytotherainbow (talk) 03:29, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  There are three sources listed immediately after that content about the injury, from Sports Illustrated, The LA Times, and United Press International. There's no point in discussing this further. OhNoitsJamie Talk 14:07, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I wasn’t talking to you, I was replying to jlvsclrk. The sources have too many red flags and change up things in the story, I believe the official record source as telling the truth. And the truth is he was fine and he raced 7 times and won once, After his alleged fall, I think jlvsclrk Is trying to get into a fight, and I will not fight. But what I am gonna do is tell people who research Kent my finds and discourage Wikipedia as false, businesses sometimes make up stories and lie. If people want to believe this that’s fine. But there’s no convincing me unless someone really from equibase comes forward to me and says this was a real mistake. I don’t trust people online saying something. Joytotherainbow (talk) 15:21, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, you already said that. Tell all the people. OhNoitsJamie Talk 15:35, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

text: Here's another link from Newspaper Archives to the Santa Ana Orange County Register. Not sure if everyone has access but it talks about the fall and to the left has the published charts from the day of the fall, which clearly show Desormeaux did not ride after the fall.Jlvsclrk (talk) 00:07, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice try, Wikipedia library. Not reliable. Gonna have to try harder than that to say I’m wrong you’re right. Especially since I have suspicion you were behind the story. Equibase is definitely from written records. Too much documentation that he was not injured. Don’t make any more messages regarding this on this page or on my talk page.I’ll revert and report you. Is that Clear? I sure hope so. Joytotherainbow (talk) 00:49, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: You need to calm down in this discussion. Accusing someone else of being  without evidence is not allowed. I recommend keeping your discussion focused on the content and not the contributors. Dreamy Jazz talk to me | my contributions 23:45, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:   Suspicious injury