Talk:New Zealand national rugby union team/Archive 1

message: Long term should there be a history of the All Blacks here? Records of tours and each match, bios of each player and their record? Thoughts? -- SimonLyall
:There definitely should be a history section.  Records of games should probably go else where e.g. Tri Nations or be listed on a sub page so as to leave the main article uncluttered. Maybe a brief summary of each years tours can be made. Seeing as there are over one thousand All Blacks, player biographies should really be separate articles.  Although brief mention of noteable players can be made.  -- Popsracer 05:19, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Anyone keen to start the [oval] ball rolling - maybe check whether other national teams have been written up, so as to get an idea of workable styles. Maybe NOT mention Tri Nations THIS month! Robin Patterson 00:40, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: ..and don't look to Australia national rugby union team as an example of what an article should be - it's two sentences, a bunch of red links to famous players, and a "see also" section! —Stormie 00:52, Aug 16, 2004 (UTC)
Simon - that is a huge task - records of tours, and of each match, bios of ALL players and their records already exists - Both in the Rugby Museum site, and in the official All Blacks site. Both of these website's are feed out of the same database. Probably best to link to those site's. The data is accurate and uptodate. I should know - it's me who created that database and webpages.  --BMR789 08:35, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

text: BMR789. The problem is that the Official sites are under restrictive copyright. Who knows what will happen to them in 20 years time, at minimum I would guess the URLs will break. As for linking I note the T&Cs of the stats.allblacks.com site say:  "If you wish to link to any part of this Site or a Sub-website, you must obtain our, or the relevant Associate's, prior written consent"  . So there may be problems there.  SimonLyall 12:16, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'd better write a letter to myself then. --BMR789 13:01, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Can't hurt, but the webmasters of allblacks.com are on some excellent drugs if they think they can demand that you obtain their consent before linking to their site. --Stormie 23:46, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: General/detailed team history

message: There should be mention to the pregame ritual the All Blacks take part in before each game.
*There is - it is called the haka. MyNameIsNotBob 06:54, May 23, 2005 (UTC)
* Though the haka should really be called a prayer not a war dance.
* There are a number of articles on the Haka on the Internet. The consensus seems to be that the version of the Haka performed by the All Blacks is the "Ka Mate". The Haka seems to be described as a dance that does not involve weapons (so is not a "war dance") and can cover everything from welcome to hostility. I guess a hostile Haka could be seen as a war dance of sorts, but the history and translation of the Ka Mate would suggest that it's much more a thanksgiving, however there is an extremely "loose" translation (based more on tradition than transliteration) which suggests a challenge. Personally, I'd say there are probably better interpretations of it.
::For the record, weapons or no, the haka is a war dance. It is performed in front of - and at - the opposition, in the same way it was used by many polynesian people before going into battle, and has the aim of scaring the bejesus out of the opposition/enemy. (Typically, praying doesn't have quite the same effect).  This is why one should freely ignore anyone (particularly a New Zealander*) who complains that "insufficient respect" is shown to the haka. It is a war dance. It is ones enemy's prerogative to show or fail to show respect to ones pre-war rituals. In rugby, as in war, if you fail to show sufficiuent respect to your opponent, you find out the hard way - you don't need a hand-wringing liberal to make the point for you. (* I'm a New Zealander, by the way) ElectricRay 23:58, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The place it should be added is Haka of the All Blacks. Kahuroa 03:36, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pregame Ritual