Talk:Vortex

message: (I'm the inventor of ducted counter vortex radial impeller technology (The Bladeless Drone) and I formulated a more complete explanation of the vortex process for a post I made for climate engineering. Feel free to update the explaination page with the updated explaination and contact me at John@MohyiLabs.Com if you have any questions -John Mohyi)
Climate Engineering: Tornados & Hurricanes
Intro & Disclaimer: 
After researching propulsion in depth, it occurred to me that my understanding of flows for aerospace applications could be applied to natural systems. Below is an explanation of the still poorly understood phenomena of Tornados & Hurricanes consistent within the framework I developed for an advanced propulsion system my team and I have been designing. The explanation below has not been peer reviewed nor has it been subjected to rigorous scientific testing. The explanation below is subject to change, and both support and criticism from experts in the field are welcome as this is meant to spark a conversation. You can also contact me directly at John@MohyiLabs.com or follow Mohyi Labs on Facebook Here.
Mohyi Principle: 
If there is one fundamental truth about the universe, it is that the universe is always seeking balance. Every particle, equation, and person is bound by this fundamental principle, and to understand it is to be a master of fate.
Tornados & Hurricanes: 
Gravity is the primary driving force behind Tornados and Hurricanes. It acts more strongly on denser particles pulling them closer to the center of gravity. Contrary to popular belief, hot air does not rise; rather it is displaced by the colder/denser air that gravity acts upon more strongly. This is the same phenomenon at work when oil and water separate into distinct layers. Gravity attracts the relatively denser water more than the relatively less dense oil. In the process, the water forces the oil to the top. This process in conjunction with the rotation of the earth and thermal expansion/contraction causes wind. The sources of thermal energy are both the sun and the earth itself.
The Vortex begins to form when the denser layer above, relative to gravitational pull, collapses at its weakest point into the less dense layer below, which is usually the center, and the downward momentum has an additive effect. This collapse will take on a concave geometry causing the pressure/density to drop at the center generating a vacuum force as it falls toward the center of gravity.
Every medium is constantly seeking balance or equilibrium. A flow is induced when the balance has tilted. A medium of higher density or concentration relative to its surroundings will always seek a lower state of energy by balancing itself with its environment. A flow in essence is simply an expansion. The expansion, though it expands in all directions simultaneously, will be observed as moving more in the direction of least resistance thus resembling a flow. Equal amounts of energy though are expended in all directions.
The vacuum pressure generated by the collapse of the upper layer into the lower layer will induce a flow from not only above, but from the sides of the vacuum as well. Because of conservation of angular momentum, as the flow converges toward the center of the vacuum it will rotate faster. The vortex will stabilize when the outward rotational force, relative to the center of the vacuum, is in equilibrium with the inward vacuum pressure force within the vortex. Since gravity attracts atoms more strongly closer to the surface of the earth, the gradual increase in the atmospheric pressure gives the vorticity its cone like geometry.
Practical Value: 
The practical value of this model its predictive power, which is a precursor to controlling and harnessing this natural phenomenon. In essence, the power to engage in climate engineering. A few approaches are available some more practical than others:
1) By decreasing the vacuum pressure at the center of the vortex, the vortex equilibrium would expand decreasing the rotation speed resulting from conservation of angular momentum. The most practical method using this approach is to increase the internal pressure via thermal expansion. This may be achieved by focusing a powerful laser at the center of the vortex, or by the use of explosives. This method would only decrease the rotational speed and provide only temporary relief unless the thermal transfer is sustained.
2) By decreasing the density of the upper layer via thermal expansion it is possible to stop a tornado or hurricane before it starts or at least decrease its intensity. This may be achieved by focusing a laser on the clouds or seeding them with an exothermic chemical. This would decrease the density and reduce the gravitational pull. This method may be counterproductive in the long run since the thermal energy will eventually disperse increasing the density.
3) By increasing the density of the upper layer past its collapsing threshold preemptively, it may be possible to prevent or reduce the size of a tornado or hurricane to tolerable levels. A process known as Cloud Seeding is a common practice in China and is used to increase rainfall. By seeding clouds with either silver iodide or dry ice we can fight hurricanes and tornados similar to the way we fight forest fires. (Note: Never seed the central region of an active tornado or hurricane with a cooling agent. That would increase the density and likely exacerbate the problem. You may be able to seed the periphery though.)
4) By building a tower that reaches into the clouds, it is possible to induce a controlled collapse of the denser atmosphere. Once the downward flow generates enough momentum, the gravitational potential energy can be converted into electricity similar to a dam.
Conclusion: 
Climate Engineering is the sensible response to climate change. Both natural and manmade weather fluctuations are a real concern and we have the capability today to respond to these threats.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:40F:401:180E:A8B8:34A1:D36B:FDAD (talk) 22:16, 4 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mohyi Labs Simplified Vortex Explanation 

message: Here's a reference to a stunning photograph of a United States Air Force (USAF) C-17 Globemaster III Military Transport's with vortex/twin tornadoes/wake to consider adding to the article:
ChamorroBible.org, Fagualo (Octubre) 10, 2004, "Manguaeyayon na Palabran Si Yuus - God's Precious Words, with The Photograph of the Day". Photo is in the public domain.  Main site URL: http://ChamorroBible.org (referenced as "ChamorroBible.org" or the "Chamorro Bible" WWW site). 
: http://ChamorroBible.org/gpw/gpw-20041010.htm
On the humorous side see http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDLink=1160585.
:It is certainly a beautiful photograph. However, I don't think it would add anything to the article, as there are two images here already. Those with broadband tend to forget what loading these pages can be like for poor old dial-up users! Graham 00:11, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture of a C-17 Globemaster's vortex 

message: I was wondering if there are solutions to fluid dynamics equations that "look like" or somehow involve Hopf fibrations? The Hopf fibration is interesting because it resembles, in many ways, a dipole. Its vortex-like structure should also be appearant from the picture; I was wondering if there was a deeper connection, beyond the superficial resemblance. For example, is there a soliton-like solution to eqns of fluid dynamics that resembles the Hopf fibration in some way? Sorry for the "advanced" question, but I am curious. linas 00:57, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hopf fibration 

message: I always thought it was a catenary. Isn't it?
-- 88.134.21.88 14:36, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "free surface […] is a parabola" 

message: a vortex that involves no shear and so does not require a force to maintain, is called 'forced', whereas a 'free' vortex involves shear so would require some force to keep going.
Asplace 01:18, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No.  A vortex that involves no shear and so does not require a torque to maintain it is known as a 'free vortex' and velocity is inversely proportional to radius.  A vortex that involves shear and requires a torque to maintain it is a 'forced vortex' and velocity is proportional to radius.  Dolphin51 (talk) 12:42, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:   Anyone know why this apparent anomaly? 

message: Could someone please clarify these examples, and put them back in the article?
*Ice stalactites are formed by a rotating column of downward-moving supercooled brine.
*A small stream of falling water starts rotating immediately on release and does so until the speed of downward movement overcomes the cohesion of surface tension and causes its breakup into spray.  
Thanks... --Jorge Stolfi (talk) 06:00, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confusing examples

message: With some regret (since they are pretty), I have removed these pictures.  The animated gifs say essentially the same thing but somewhat more clearly. --Jorge Stolfi (talk) 01:57, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Redundant pictures deleted 

message: Nuff said. --130.85.194.136 (talk) 19:16, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added link to wiktionary, because the plural of vortex is mysterious 

message: Where are the old animations? I prefer them over the new ones even if the overall presentation is better.Klinfran (talk) 07:38, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  animations 

message: I think this has to be revised:
"If the fluid rotates like a rigid body – that is, if v increases proportionally to r – a tiny ball carried by the flow would also rotate about its center as if it were part of that rigid body. In this case, \vec \omega is the same everywhere: its direction is parallel to the spin axis, and its magnitude is twice the angular velocity of the whole fluid."
It should be the same angular velocity (from current view of picture, i.e.: tidally locked), not twice, unless I misunderstand. I also have some doubt about equations and how they have been derived and it would be recommended to refer either to a basic proof or to a reference handbook.--Almuhammedi (talk) 18:36, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: In the setup of the scenario, the fluid has a specified velocity.  The field of fluid velocities therefore has a curl.  Conceptually, think about the force exerted on the side of the tennis-ball closest to the center of the vortex (in slower moving fluid), and on the far side (in faster moving fluid).  Assuming ideal fluids, and assuming force is proportional to the velocity of the fluid, there is a differential force separated by the diameter of the ball - i.e., a torque.  Conceptually, at least, the ball is expected to start spinning because of this torque.  I'd have to work out the math to see if the net result of this effect on the entire tennis ball yields exactly twice the angular rotation rate of the fluid, but conceptually this seems correct.  To address that analytically, we'll need to review curl (mathematics) and set up some equations for the special case of rotational velocity proportional to radius.  Or, we could find and cite a book that works this problem out.  It sounds like a common homework problem.  Nimur (talk) 14:05, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The quoted statement is self-contradictory, and has nothing to do with forces (it says "as if it were part of that rigid body"). But even with viscous forces due to relative flow etc., the angular velocity of any (neutrally buoyant) body carried along with the flow would settle to the same angular velocity as the fluid exhibits. The formula used for vorticity below the figure is incorrect. —Quondum 21:52, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rotational profile 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The introduction and the summary sections look like they contradict each other in their descriptions of vortexes.  The introduction seems to state that it’s the axis line that can be curved or straight, whereas in the summary it seems to state that it’s the fluid that can be curved or straight. So which is it, the fluid or the axis line? Btw, the summary could really use some proofreading for grammatical and syntactical errors. Alialiac (talk) 20:58, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confusion as to whether it’s the axis line or fluid that is curved or straight.  

message: See discussion under Eddy (fluid dynamics) Biggerj1 (talk) 17:17, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: see discussion there. Biggerj1 (talk) 08:48, 17 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge