Talk:Willow Rosenberg

message: Shouldn't the issue #3 image of Willow be preferable to the #19 image? It makes it out as if Season Eight is all about Dark Willow, the way her character arc in Season Six was. It also doesn't accurately portray how the character appears issue-by-issue, which is as a flying, old-timey-clothing-wearing witch.~ZytheTalk to me! 18:54, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Season Eight image 

message: Whenever Buffy and Giles are both absent or incapacitated, Willow takes charge.  The first time she did that, it was a bit of a surprise.  But I (currently rewatching s7) don't remember when that was.  Is it worth mention?  —Tamfang (talk) 17:22, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  in charge 

message: She is clearly a bisexual. --24.62.109.225 (talk) 14:18, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I've always been inclined to think the same but the character self identifies as lesbian and all real world sources from show creators related to the storyline say lesbian.  So that's what we go with.  Millahnna (talk) 15:01, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I've an idea: place her under "Fictional LGBT Characters".  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.62.109.225 (talk) 19:23, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

text: I think that identifying as a lesbian does not necessarily mean "I absolutely do not like men", it can simply mean that you prefer women to men. Thus explaining why she prefers to date Tara instead of Xander but still has/had feelings for him. So we could just call her both. 184.145.18.50 (talk) 20:16, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Per WP:Due weight, Millahnna is correct about how we should treat this. We cannot call Willow both "lesbian" and "bisexual," since, while some fans and authors debate whether she is bisexual and whether Whedon engaged in bisexual erasure by making her lesbian, Whedon has been clear that she is lesbian and not bisexual. Willow has also been clear, after her time with Oz, that she is not into men romantically or sexually. Her having been attracted to males at some point in her life (Xander and Oz), but then realizing that she is lesbian and/or identifying as lesbian is common for many women who identify as lesbian; perhaps the vast majority of them. By that, I mean it's common (oftentimes due to heteronormativity) for gay men or lesbians to have had romantic or sexual relationships with the opposite sex before coming out as gay or lesbian, and it's common for women to identify as lesbian even if their behavior indicates otherwise; for what I mean on that, see this section of the Lesbian article. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 20:48, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: These "not bisexual" statements from Whedon, do they refer to behavior or to interest? One thing about Willow is she's really nice... so it's hard to tell if she's saying "I'm not into men at all" (or however it got phrased) to Xander/Oz to let them down easy (like "it's not you it's me") or if she really means it. Xena comes to mind, she and Gabrielle get into a lesbian relationship eventually and might have adopted the label if it existed back then (not sure the word ever came up in-universe since not set in the 90s) but I think both of them had male relationships prior to it. There is also the issue of "canon per author" vs "canon per content" too. Sometimes authors make statements about their work which is not actually supported by the work itself. Rowling claiming she never said Hermione was white, for example, even though people quickly found text showing she did refer to her having a white face. In-universe content holds a higher authority to some than accessory comments by creators since they sometimes conflict with the raw canon. 184.145.18.50 (talk) 04:17, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd have to read Whedon's comments on the matter again to be sure. But the vast majority of reliable WP:Secondary sources put Willow's sexual identity under the "lesbian" category (one who has not been sexually interested in men since Oz; that is, if she was ever truly sexually interested in Xander or Oz), which is why I cited WP:Due weight. The way sources generally treat her sexual orientation and sexual identity is also what Millahnna was referring to. After pinging Millahnna, I saw that Millahnna hasn't edited since November 2015, but that is beside the point. And then there's Whedon, who while not initially having Willow explicitly state that she is a lesbian, has been clear that she is, and eventually had her make it clear on the show that she's not romantically/sexually interested in men. Probably in the comics too. All that stated, in the Tara Maclay section, the article does address the contrasting opinion that Willow may be bisexual and that some fans disliked Whedon having Willow choose Tara over Oz. Whedon has also had Buffy have sex with a woman, but insists that she's not bisexual. As you can see, that has been debated at the Buffy Summers talk page, and I weighed in on that too. So did a Wikipedia television editor I greatly respect: Bignole. As for Xena and Gabrielle, the show was never explicit about their romantic/sexual interaction, which you likely know. This is mentioned in the Xena:Warrior Princess article. The writers used subtext in their case, and intentionally left the question of their romantic/sexual intimacy ambiguous. And, yes, they never used the contemporary terms gay, lesbian or bisexual in that show. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 08:01, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

text: This "Willow And Tara - How Joss Whedon Put Lesbian Sex On TV - Lesbian Stories On Buffy" YouTube video, starting at 4:41, comments on the aforementioned bisexual erasure aspect I mentioned and what I noted about Willow being clear at some point after Oz that she was no longer into men. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 10:17, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

text: And to address the #Term discussion below, the video, starting at 0:17, calls Willow and Tara "TV's first long-standing lesbian relationship." Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 10:21, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

text: I'm walking into this not entirely sure of the argument. It sounds like we're debating if she should be listed as "lesbian" or "bi-sexual". If that's the case, then you go by what is identified, not by what has happened. This is true for real life. Many young ladies do not realize that they are homosexual the moment they walk out the door, because they have been grilled by society that they should like men. Hence the reason why Willow was engaged in relationships with men before Tara. Then, she realized that she really liked women. You haven't seen her engage in a relationship with a man since, because she realized she likes women. She identifies fictionally as lesbian, Whedon identifies her as lesbian, and if you were to ask the LGBT community they would say lesbian as well. Having had a heterosexual relationship prior to her lesbian one doesn't negate the sexual orientation.   BIGNOLE   (Contact me) 13:02, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Bignole, you grasped the argument. Well stated. I moved your comment up (from its original spot), though, since the Term section below is about whether or not to describe Willow and Tara's relationship as the first long-term lesbian relationship on U.S. television. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 02:31, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Bisexual

message: Did anybody else realize that the first kiss aired with Tara was not in season five, but in season four. In restless, the last episode of season four, Xander dreams he`s in his ice cream truck and Tara and Willow are in the back.
So their is a mistake in the article.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Piratepop22 (talk • contribs) 21:20, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not shown on screen. --Moni3 (talk) 21:26, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mistake 

message: Is it worth a mention of Willow practicing her telekinetic abilities by levitating and rotating a pencil? I saw a clip of her doing this out in public with people milling around next to Buffy who is doing crunches. Not sure what episode it was since it happened during a fan music video on YouTube.
It seemed odd since if anyone looked in their direction and payed particular attention they might have noticed it. Like for example if either had a stalker or secret admirer or even someone taking a casual interest in the more-noticeable crunching Buffy.
I suppose nobody noticing might be explained by some kind of protective charm pre-cast to hide it but without evidence of that (would have to see if Willow mentions anything to that effect in the ep) it looks like she is recklessly displaying her supernatural powers where anyone might notice. 184.145.18.50 (talk) 20:08, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Public pencil practice

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