Talk:Double bass/Archive 2

message: I feel that this article is a fine product of alot of hard work by many individuals. Please support this article in its nomination as a featured atricle. Even if the nomination fails, we can still improve the article greatly based on what comments people have about it. -Bottesini 15:54, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Double Bass]] featured article nomination

message: Playing styles section needs slimming. Whole page needs to get down to about 32k!--Light current 02:50, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: agreed (this is probably my last edit for tonight). by the way, the image on the left looks much better. please continue this great improvement drive. even if we fail, we can still renominate the article after improvement. -Bottesini 02:55, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Slim down 

message: I think this section needs serious thinning out. Its far larger than the  paras on other genres and we really need to get the page tighter (smaller!)--Light current 22:35, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Classical DB repertoire 

message: It says in the article Some bassists who perform in baroque ensembles use gut strings to get a lighter, "warmer" tone.
Does this mean the strings have more/less bass or more/less top or what? What about sustain on gut -is it better/worse than steel?--Light current 06:59, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I haven't read the addition you are referring to, but in true baroque ensembles there aren't any double basses. I'd like to give a simple answer, but this seems confusing to me because, as I previously stated, there are no double basses in a baroque chamber orchestra (as in an ensemble that uses period instruments and plays period works exclusively), and I doubt that most musicians would change their strings to perform one piece of music. But anyways, I don't believe it is accurate to talk about the differences between modern and gut strings in terms of more/less treble or bass. I would say that modern strings such as steel core varieties are "brighter", and do have significantly increased sustain. ==> Bottesini 00:54, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, there were double basses in the baroque orchestra (except for the very early baroque, where the violone was used).  Modern baroque orchestras all use double basses as well.  Why do you believe double basses were not used in the Baroque orchestra?  Badagnani 01:40, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

text: There's some interesting information here about early strings and early double bass-type instruments in the Baroque; but I'm not sure I can understand it all.  http://www.earlybass.com/dbsession.htmUser:Badagnani
I'm sorry, but I am just not great at getting my point or ideas across in text. In modern Baroque-style orchestras, you're right, there are double basses, but in an ensemble like I mentioned that uses period instruments, modern basses are generally not included. I do not think it is wrong to say that gut strings have a "warmer" tone. Although I think that modern strings are far more popular than gut strings in all genres, I can't speak for any variety except classical (in which gut strings are rarely seen due to durability issues and whatnot). I'm pretty sure there are still some lose ends in what I'm saying, but I'll have to wait and see. ==>Bottesini 02:48, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Strings 

message: talk:electric upright bass--Light current 02:49, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  See also 

message: Anybody got any theories about the Mwaah sound?--I shall expound my theory shortly--Light current 16:55, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You mean the subtle "buzz" that shows up a second or two into a low pizz note, especially on low notes?  I think it comes from what we discussed earlier, the relatively larger surface area of the string in contact with the fingerboard, producing a microscopic "buzz" that doesn't happen with a fretted instrument, or with open strings (the nut or fret being much thinner).  Badagnani 02:34, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Great discussion.  This makes perfect sense, and is quite well phrased.  The folks who disagreed with you about the buzz, I believe, don't know what is going on with the physics of their own instruments.  Two things I'd add is that the "mwaah" buzz is also found on fretless basses (esp. those with lower, or "just right" actions).  Regarding the separate issue of whether an EUB sounds different from a DB, I believe they do sound different, in this way:  the rather thumpy, "hollow wood" sound coming from a pizz DB (coming from the drum-like sympathetic vibrations of the instrument's thin spruce top, especially when plucked vigorously) cannot be duplicated on a solid-body EUB, no matter how amp settings are arranged.  Badagnani 04:51, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

text: The "thump" does seem to emerge more prominently when plucking higher notes (which would be notes that would have less "mwaah").  Badagnani 05:06, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

text: True.  Badagnani 05:42, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mwaah 

message: Also, does this speculation about harmonics also apply to valve sound where people claim that valve amps sound more bassy than transistor ones?--Light current 17:47, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Valve sound]] 

message: I'm going to go ahead and attempt to combine the two bow sections. I'm not sure how that ever even happened - they both cover slightly different material with alot of overlapping info. ==>Bottesini 20:53, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Combining Bow Sections 

message: Should these two alternatives neck formations ( posn of 'heel') be mentioned?--Light current 04:33, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't really have much of an opinion in whether it should be mentioned or not. I'm not going to go out of my way to add it (because the difference is not incredibly profound), but I am not strongly opposed to it being added. Bottesini 00:16, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  D or Eb neck 

message: I say you cant tell the difference (on pizz) soundwise between a real DB and a EUB with properly adujsted amplifier and good speaker cab! Any comments?--Light current 14:21, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, any double bass player could tell the difference. Bottesini 21:15, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

text: It's rather hard to describe things like this in text. I'm not sure how I could explain it. I am sure though that it is easily possible to identify them from each other based on their sound. Most people without musical training could probably identify them as different instruments based on their sound, and probably tell which was which. Bottesini 23:22, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Can you tell the difference? 

message: Removal of endpin info means that the article doesn't explain what the endpin is or what it does.  Please return some relevant info.  Also, the comparison with violin, viola, and cello bows was good to have, and quite relevant to the bass's distinction from the other members of the bowed string family.  Hope you'll return that as well.  Otherwise the article is improving well.  Badagnani 03:18, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Restored as requested.--Light current 03:26, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Endpin and bows

message: "...an extra low string tuned to B. Such basses are larger than usual and somewhat harder to play because there is less space in between the strings."
''
I just don't think that's true. You can make an argument as to why they're harder to play, but that wouldn't be the reason. There is not that much of a difference in string spacing; it is a wider fingerboard and bridge which allows for the extra string. -Bottesini 22:38, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I just bought a five-string bass and have been practicing for about a month. The crown of the bridge is slightly less and the strings are slightly closer together than a four-string bass, both of which are problematic. However, the string positioning is the most difficult problem I've encountered. The strings just don't seem to be where I expect them.  When playing Pizzicato I tend to finger one string and pluck another. When using the bow I tend to bow two strings at once. After four weeks I'm just beginning to feel a little confidence playing the instrument.Rsduhamel 20:22, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  b string quote in intro 

message: (→Technique - Bob Haggart says first finger at HP should be same level as players eye. Is this right or wrong?) - lightcurrent
Well, I always remembered it as first finger at eye level in first position, but i could be wrong. But anyways, its completely different if you play sitting on a stool (like i do), and it really only applies to classical music, and even then its still a matter of personal preference. alot of blugrass players dont even extend their endpin. of course im saying all of this out of personal experince, but i usually set my beginning students up with the 1st finger-eye level in first position. -Bottesini 00:21, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well Im happy to go with the majority view. I only play jazz but I find that if the electric upright bass is too high, I can easily get out of position. (happens if I play without shoes as well!). So I set mine at the Bob Haggart (who of course was a jazz bass player) recommended height and I have minimum trouble (still enough tho'!)--Light current 00:34, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

text: My personal opinion is that if the HP is higher than the players eye level, its easy to get lost simply because you cant see where your left hand is with the peripheral vision of the left eye. I could be wrong about this tho'!--Light current 00:44, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is certainly a matter of preference. I think that if you need to rely on your peripheral vision to locate a position or note that you need to go back through your simandl book! :) -Bottesini 00:53, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

text: I havent got one. Maybe thats why Im in trouble!--Light current 00:57, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Seriously, you need to pick one up. It is affectionately referred to as the "bass bible" by teachers and students. It pretty much set the playing guidelines that we use today. It divided the fingerboard into the positions and developed simple things like how we use our fingers, etc. You should play through the entire book. It may be a hundred-something years old, but it's still a necessity. (@Amazon) -Bottesini 01:04, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Thanks for the ref, but it wouldnt really apply to the EUB with its shorter scale. I use modified bass guitar fingering (horror!) --Light current 01:07, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

text: So this is goodbye then?--Light current 01:15, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  edit response