Talk:Surrealist music

message: How was this particular title chosen?  It really does not seem like the logical choice to me.  "Surrealist music" or "Surrealism in music," even, would have made more sense.  I prefer the first title, and I propose that the article be moved to said title.  Any thoughts? ---RepublicanJacobiteThe'FortyFive' 16:36, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  The title of this article... 

message: I've just finished making some minor corrections to the Desolation Row lyrics that were quoted in "Influence of Surrealism in Popular Music".  I notice that some or all of the external links that serve as references for this article don't seem to be presented in line with any of the WP specifications.  Should they be changed, or left as they are?   What do you think? Twistlethrop (talk) 20:37, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: You are quite right: planting an external link in the middle of the article text is not an approved method of citation on Wikipedia generally. Apart from anything else, the bare external links need to be properly identified with an author, title, and so on. Since the established reference format here is author-date parenthetical referencing, this information should be put in the list of Sources, and the link placed there (this is usually on the title of the source). The format should be plain from the items already there.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 21:40, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Standard for references...? 

message: I added some "citation needed" tags to a quotation explaining the philosophy of surrealism in music.  The first one, in part, is simply technically required.  The second, and the first as well, need citations in order so that people can expand on the concepts, or put them into more up-to-date, less stylistic words.  Like, does anyone know how the spiritual concepts of immanence and transcendence are related to this art style?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by IvyA-O 9 (talk • contribs) 18:30, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Both of the phrases were already cited at the end of the paragraph, as is usual. However, I have added the specific citations you demanded, in the full expectation that they may be removed again as excessive and redundant. As for the "more up-to-date, less stylistic words", what you are asking for is a simplification of Adorno, a writer renowned for his difficult and complex (which I imagine is what you mean by "stylistic") expression. I doubt you will succeed in obtaining what you are seeking, though if you read him very carefully (and preferably in the original German, rather than in the very up-to-date 2002 translation cited here) and in the full context, you may come to understand him in time. You may also wish to consult the editor's preface and commentary to that volume, as well as some of the references cited there.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 22:24, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citation needed 

message: I have to question the unsourced and chronologically confused statement that Erik Satie was "most associated" with early Surrealism, simply because Apollinaire coined the term surréalisme to describe the ballet Parade. It's an assumption based on a literary coincidence and nothing more. Parade was first performed in 1917, while the Surrealist movement - the name of which André Breton took from Apollinaire - didn't begin to take off until 1923-1924. In the 1920s, the starting point for this article as written, Satie was vociferously aligned with Tristan Tzara's Dada movement. He sided with Tzara when Breton broke off from the Dadaists in 1922 and thereafter referred to the budding Surrealists as "pseudo-Dadas". Breton got his revenge by staging a demonstration that disrupted the premiere of Satie's ballet Mercure (1924), with his group (including Louis Aragon) shouting "Down with Satie!" among other things. To suggest the composer was in any way a Surrealist or associated with that movement is ridiculous, to say the least. TheBawbb (talk) 13:29, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, the source already in place at the end of the sentence states point-blank that Satie and Antheil were the two composers most associated with surrealism, but it did not support the claim that the term "surrealism" itself was coined by Apollinaire in response to Parade. It was not difficult to find a source for this, and it has now been added. While it is true that Satie never declared himself to be a member of the surrealist movement, and Breton was certainly no friend, logic fails spectacularly when we try to draw a sharp line around the surrealists in order to separate them from "the avant-garde", "Dada", "cubism", and a host of other movements largely dreamed up by critics and historians. The main issue on Wikipedia is that "the threshold for inclusion is verifiability, not truth", and our finely argued analyses, as editors, amount only to original research. It would probably be a good idea in this case to extend the discussion to include something about the difficulty of identifying specifically surrealist elements in a piece of music—or more specifically, music without a text or programme that might associate it with literary surrealism. Does the presence, for example, of a C half-diminished seventh chord, 11/4 meter, or extraordinary brevity or length either support or refute the presence of surrealism? To say either that these things do or do not would be equally absurd but, as long as we are indulging in our original research, it is a question worth considering and may provide some focus in our search for reliable sources to support whatever claims we wish to make in the article.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 17:04, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Erik Satie 

message: I read an essay, I believe in a book called The Encyclopedia of the Arts. A very unfavorable take on surrealism that denied the existence of surrealist music.  I wish I could check on this nook to see if it's actually it, but it's buried in a storage unit because I'm shelter homeless.  I don't know if it was part of a trend of denialism, but it might be worth noting if it can be cited as more than just a memory. --Scottandrewhutchins (talk) 04:33, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Denialism

message: This article feels incomplete. Why is there a section for early surrealist music but nothing else? It needs revamping. Grammarpolice119 (talk) 14:22, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Incomplete article