Talk:Razor wire

message: when was razor wire invented?????
"The first versions of this type of barbed wire were produced by Germany during the First World War. The reason for this was a wartime lack of wire to produce conventional barbed wire. Therefore, flat wire with triangular cutting edges was punched out of steel strips. A welcome side effect was that a comparable barbed wire length of this new type could be produced in a shorter time. These forerunners of NATO wire did not yet have an inner wire for stabilization, so they were easy to cut with tin snips and were not as robust as normal barbed wire. However, they withstood the wire cutters used at that time to cut normal barbed wire, which was common at the front at that time." https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO-Draht#Geschichte
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Oops. I accidentally marked a major edit as minor. So I've just done a non-minor (but in fact trivial) edit so it shows up in peoples' watch lists. If you see what I mean. Securiger 23:36, 20 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: My understanding has been that "use" as a noun means the act of using, whereas "usage" means custom or convention.
I think what was intended in the header you edited was "manner of using". According to my dictionary, "custom or convention" is the secondary definition of "usage"; the primary defintion is "the act, manner, or amount of using". Whereas "use" as a noun has primary "the act of using", secondary "the manner of using; syn. usage". Which is arguably less than a full iota of difference, so I wouldn't sweat it. Securiger 05:26, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

message: The article is titled Razor wire, but it talks mostly of Barbed tape. Are these the same, as I suspect? Can anyone knowledgeable fix this? --Orzetto 11:59, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I've moved the article to barbed tape to reduce confusion. ··gracefool |☺ 05:24, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''Razor wire'' or ''Barbed tape''? 

message: Sure, all of them have their differences, but all the wiring (barbed tape (razor wire), concertina, constantine) have the same fixture and surface to them, which is sharp razor teeth that eat through skin when grabbed tightly. All of them have a placement on permanent fencing (except concertina) and have the same purpose. There should be a single page talking about the wiring itself, but also having topics within the article talking about each type of wiring. People won't tell which is which (between concertina wire ITSELF, razor wire, and/or constantine wire) if they were to see them, without them being labeled as such and such. I'm for the merging. JustN5:12 01:03, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed.  I now appreciate that "concertina" and "razor" are orthogonal concepts, but they are so closely related they need to be addressed in the same article. — Omegatron 03:13, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Razor, concertina, con...all the same concept! 

message: In section 2.1, there was still an argument that Barbed Tape and Concertina Wire are very similar and related.  There was a mis-statement:  
 "...all the wiring (barbed tape (razor wire), concertina, 
 constantine) have the same fixture and surface to them, which is sharp razor teeth that eat 
 through skin when grabbed tightly. All of them have a placement on permanent fencing (except
 concertina) and..."
Barbed Tape has little "razors" and is a format of a barrier wire, Concertina Wire is a type of barrier and can have little razors, OR wire barbs and is meant to be deployed stand alone, not on top of a fence. 
From above: 
 "Barbed tape ("razor wire") vs. barbed wire refers to the type of cutting surface on the 
 wire; steel wire points vs. steel tape blades. Whereas "concertina" refers to the shape of
 the interlocking, expandable coils into which the wire is formed, and can be made from either
 barbed wire or barbed tape. "
This difference is enough to warrant the two different articles, unless there were to be one massive article regarding "Wire Type Barriers" but it doesn't sound like that to me.  
Please carefully read through all the previous statements to understand the difference prior to arguing for a merge. Tim Sailor 17:38, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Barbed tape| Barbed Tape]] and [[Concertina Wire]] Difference 

message: I just added a  tag to the claim that the Bangalore torpedo is useless against the tempered wire. Actually, I am highly skeptical that this is true, for two reasons:
# Most military grade barbed wire concertinas also have tempered wire cores, and bangalores are far from useless against them. 
# I have never used a bangalore torpedo against a barbed tape obstacle, but I have used them against straight barbed wire obstacles and barbed wire concertinas with high tensile steel cores. The bangalore cuts the wire like a hot knife through butter, tempered or not. In fact, it sometimes even cuts through the steel pickets too.
-- Securiger 08:04, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I dropped the section. I, too, have seen the statement proven false and since it's been nearly two months since it was tagged and there's no source, it's gone. EvilCouch (talk) 10:09, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Countering" section 

message: "although they may get their shirt entirely ripped off in the process."
Surely this can be rewritten.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.142.92.45 (talk) 17:19, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Silly language 

message: "Helical type. Helical type razor wire is the most simple pattern. There are no concertina attachments and each coil loop is left. It shows a natural spiral freely.
  Concertina type. It is the most widely used type in the security defense applications. The adjacent loops of helical coils are attached at specified points on the circumference. It shows an accordion-like configuration condition."
I was under the impression that concertina wire was "helical", unless "helical" isn't a synonym for "coil". If there is some subtle different between the two, I can't make out what it is from the way this article describes it, and it's certainly not clear from the article on concertina wire, which I just read and left with the impression that it is made of a coil of barbed (or razored) wire. So, since apparently there is some distinction between a plain "helical" wire, or coil or wire, let's see if I can figure it out: coil type "lacks concertina attachments"...nope, means nothing to me. "Each coil loop is left"...either means "left" as in "left behind", or it's referring to being coiled to the left; hard to say. "The adjacent loops are attached at specified points on the circumference". This would be the same "attachment points" mentioned previously? Still makes no sense to me; what "adjacent coils"? Surely you aren't referring to the adjacent coils when they built a triple-concertina barrier? Then "it shows an accordion-like configuration"....as opposed to helical type which doesn't look like this? I'd love to see an image of this "helical type" that somehow doesn't resemble the familiar coils of concertina wire.
I do notice on reading through these comments that there is some talk of "double helical" concertina, which is news since it doesn't mention anything about it in either of the articles (except for one place in "concertina" where I changed a "double-helical" into "helical" because I assumed the editor simple mistook "double-helical" for a synonym for "coil shaped". Perhaps they knew more than I thought). Maybe that answers all my questions about the previous; perhaps concertina wire is made up of two strands of wire, coiled into a single, and "helical" wire is just a single loop? But if it was that simple, you'd assume that somewhere in one of the articles someone would have mentioned this fact, wouldn't you? Because in concertina wire they go from talking about soldiers wrapping strands of barbed wire around stakes to make coils, to modern troops deploying it...nothing about doubled strands anywhere. Nothing about "helical vs concertina" types (which you think could be information for that article as much as, if not more than, this one). Can't tell from the photos, but it is certainly possible. 
Either I'm right, and I figured it out, or I'm wrong and I didn't, but in either case I did NOT figure it out due to the excellent information presented by these two articles. I only came to the conclusion I did finally from reading the damn comments on this talk page and putting two and two together, which isn't really ease of access.
And even if I am right, "adjacent coil" still makes no sense, nor does "attachment points"; perhaps the paired wires are supposed to be connected together every so many yards (of wire or yards of coil?), for some unclear reason, but "adjacent" means "alongside". "Accompanying" would be a better word choice. If I'm right. See, I've done all this thinking and figuring and I still have no clue. Even if you assume I'm not that bright, you shouldn't have to rely on people being smart to understand simple subjects on Wikipedia, or we might as well give up on the whole thing. AnnaGoFast (talk) 01:59, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  I don't understand these sentences. 

message: Razor wire or Barbed tape is a section at the top of this talk page from 2005.
Anyhow, I'm confused. Should this article be called razor wire with a section about barbed tape? I'd never heard of barbed tape until visiting this article. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:25, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I have not seen the term 'barbed tape' ever used. I've checked both my physical copy of the Compact Oxford English Dictionary, the online Cambridge Dictionary, and Wiktionary; and none of them have an entry for 'barbed tape'. They all, of course, have entries for 'razor wire', as that's the term that the overwhelming majority of people use. I believe it should be moved to 'Razor wire' immediately. Kirkworld (talk) 01:36, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Razor wire or Barbed tape revisited 

message: How about a really good close up for the lead image, or at least somewhere. Maybe lots showing differences. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:24, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Lead image

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 16:51, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Barbed tape →  – WP:COMMONNAME.  See discussion above. 162 etc. (talk) 16:16, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 3 September 2022 

message: None of the visuals in the article allow discernment of the morphology of the various barbs, blades, and barb-to-wire fusing methods which one would expect to see in photos bearing captions referring to types of wire and tape. I squinted to try to see crucial details without success. To me they all looked alike: just spirals.
I would suggest either replacing some of those photos with either close-ups or diagrams, or for want of such, the removal of some of the many photos that litter the article if their subjects can't be distinguished. MultiScrivner (talk) 10:36, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  No Photos or Diagrams Showing Detail - Remove?