Talk:Phosgene

message: Unlike nerve agents, phosgene must be inhaled to cause harm and cannot be absorbed through the skin.
Doesn't it also have a blinding action on the eyes? Is this the gas that blinded so many WW1 soldiers, or was that something else? -- Chris Q 08:26 Mar 19, 2003 (UTC)
The link to the MSDS sheet does not work
I would fix this but I am afraid of making a mistake.
~Chemiker 17:45 Mar 15, 2005
The picture at the top right of the article is of the compound Cl2O... there is no C, while the formula given for phosgene is COCl2, which has a C...  Where's the missing C? 66.102.74.252 04:20 May 29, 2005
*The missing carbon is in the middle, at the intersection of the bonds. It is conventional not to write the C for carbon in organic structures.  The external link has now been fixed. Physchim62 09:09, 29 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Random

message: This page, which purports to instruct the creation of chloroform, cautions that stored chloroform can mutate into phosgene.  Is this true?  What's the reaction?  Thanks. Ayeroxor 11:30, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)
*This is a known (if minor) hazard of storing chloroform, yes. You can find the information on its International Chemical Safety Card or in the NIOSH Pocket Guide to Chemical Hazards. Commercial chloroform is normally supplied containing 0.5–1.0% ethanol as a stabilizer for this reason: the ethanol reacts with any phosgene formed to produce diethyl carbonate. I'm not sure of the exact details, but it is a free radical reaction initiated by either heat or light (always store chloroform in brown glass bottles). The oxygen atom comes from any oxygen or water present in the medium. The quantities of phosgene formed in laboratory use of chloroform are not usually large enough to pose problems of toxicity, but the reaction can be dangerous either in industrial use or in case of fire. I will add the information to Chloroform when I get a minute! Physchim62 12:38, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed the leading space from the above anonymous comment to eliminate formatting as a boxed line. Jerry lavoie 20:12, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Phosgene can be produced in laboratory scale by vigorous oxidation of chloroform. However, any preparation of phosgene is russian roulette, if not done by a chemist in a proper laboratory. Don't try it, it could kill you.--84.163.103.210 (talk) 03:09, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chloroform &rarr; Phosgene 

message: Why is there production information on phosgene in the article?
Except terrorists, would there be anyone interested in making phosgene?
*Yes, it is a major industrial chemical: obviously the article at present doesn't make this clear enough! It is usually produced on the same site in which it is used, to avoid transportation problems. Physchim62 18:20, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Production

message: What is the mechanism of toxicity of phosgene gas? Ed Sanville 10:45, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Mechanism of toxicity

message: These sentences from the article don't make sense:
:Upon ultraviolet radiation in the presence of oxygen, chloroform forms significant amounts of phosgene via a radical reaction. Brown glass flasks for chloroform prevent this reaction.
How is this reaction possible? COCl2 + O2 ≠ CHCl3, as there is no hydrogen on the left side of the equation, and ultraviolet radiation is not powerful enough to cause a nuclear reaction. ~ Oni Lukos ct 21:10, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ...I did it again. I misinterpereted a chemical reaction. Granted, this phrasing was rather...poorly phrased, but still. Just pretend as though this section doesn't exist ~ Oni Lukos ct 23:06, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Consider it ignored :) Incidentally, it's not just the brown glass (although chloroform should not be stored in colorless glass): most commercial chloroform contains about 0.5% ethanol to scavange the phosgene which is formed. Physchim62 (talk) 11:20, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Phosgene → Chloroform 

message: The article says:  "Phosgene gas has no color but may appear as a white or yellowish haze when released into air."  That seems to be a self-contradiction; if phosgene has no colour, how can it be "yellowish"?  Is the colour due to an impurity? 216.59.230.140 01:24, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just as water has no color, but can appear blue or green under certain viewing or lighting conditions, this is due to selective refraction of light, and not due to any color in the substance itself.  Jerry lavoie 20:12, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Colourless green compounds sleep furiously 

message: The deadly and insidious toxicity of phosgene upon inhalation is not mediated by hydrochloric acid formed by hydrolysis. Reasons are:
1. Median lethal concentrations of phosgene in mammals are two decimals below those of HCl that can form. In other words: low and medium concentrations of phosgene in the air do produce lung injury, that could be achieved only by many hundreds of times the overall amouth of HCl, that would be formed by complete hydrolysis of the phosgene inhaled; even taking the high water solubility of HCl gas into account. 
2. In acute intoxications, there are normaly no signs of significant acid exposure, such as acidosis.
3. The short characteristic of phosgene as a chemical given is already giving a hint, what mechanisms are involved in its incredible pulmonar toxicity: yes, it's highly electrophile. It acts as an alkylant (or, acylant) agent and readily attacks functional groups such as the thiole gruop, -SH, the amino group, -NH2, or activated hydroxyl group, -OH; it forms intermediary isocyanates, chlorocarbonates and chlorothiocarbonates within the proteins and other essential molecules in the cell membranes of alveoles and tiny capillaries, perfuding them. This is consistent with the effects of other alkylant (acylant) chemicals upon inhalation: much the same type of intoxication is caused by dimethyl sulfate, allyl chloride, benzyl chloride, sulfur mustard or diazomethane if these are inhaled. 
4. Unfortunately, my sources are all not in english.
Could someone expert in the field of toxicology be so kind and take an eye upon the subject? Phosgene is, after all, one of the most important industrial chemicals and poses a considerable thread of poisoning, let alone its historical relevance (it were phosgene and diphosgene that killed ~80% of chemical warfare casualties in world war 1). Thanks.--84.163.103.210 (talk) 03:06, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Excellent suggestions, let me see what I can find.  It does seem unlikely that HCl is the root of its toxicity.--Smokefoot (talk) 03:20, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Toxicology 

message: How about someone posting a reference to the discovery of vials of phosgene by Iraq weapons inspectors in the United Nations building on 30 Aug 2007?
Here's the link: [http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2007-08-30T170627Z_01_N30440927_RTRUKOC_0_US-UN-CHEMICALS.xml&src=rss&rpc=22&sp=true
--
--  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.194.23.43 (talk) 18:05, August 30, 2007 (UTC) 
: With a boiling point of 8°C or so the Iraky desert seems an ideal place for this stuff.--Stone (talk) 18:55, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If you ment its potential as a CW agent, that's quite independent from its b.p.; it would be only a question of weaponization (sulfur mustard, with b.p. of 212 - 214°C is equally viable). If you ment the fact that it was found in vials, those are normally sealed massive glass ampoules, so one can store them in wide temperature ranges.--84.163.124.142 (talk) 10:13, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Irak

message: Although not related, both these words should be tagged in the article or perhaps above. Phosphine is also a toxic gas and as the words sound similar, it may avoid confusion.Htcs (talk) 02:34, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Phosphine - Phosphene

message: Many intelligent nonchemists are under the impression that phosgene's lethality arises from the release of HCl due to its hydrolysis.  But an authoritative text and the  chemistry described in the article explain that the mechanism is otherwise.  Phosgene preferentially reacts with amino groups, it does not hydrolyze (as you seem to understand).  The reaction with amine groups is similar to its basic organic chemistry:
:4 RNH2  +  COCl2  →  (RNH)2CO  +  2 RNH3Cl
Ullmann's Encylopedia of Industrial Chemistry is widely recognized, in the first world at least, as an authoritative source of chemical information.  Your Professor Aggrawal is not recognized as an authoritative source, although I am sure that he is well intentioned and a nice person.  Your misunderstanding is a common one (I used to buy it) but upon reflexion it makes no sense since many other hydrogen chloride sources such thionyl chloride are not nearly as lethal.--Smokefoot (talk) 22:53, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Mech of toxicity

message: It looks like the density of the gas at 15°C has the wrong units: it should be (g/L), instead of the reported (g/cm3).  (As it currently reads, the gas at 15°C is ~3 times denser than the liquid at 0°C!)
Frank Somer (talk) 22:32, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mistake in density units 

message: When I was a lad I lived in a house which had a wartime air-raid shelter in the back garden.  On a wall inside there was a round glass bulb (larger than a cricket ball) which was blue or contained blue liquid.  I was told this was carbon tetrachloride used as a "fire grenade".  Later a college-mate told me that using these could cause the creation of phosgene.  Is that true? Unbuttered parsnip (talk) mytime= Thu 12:42, wikitime=  04:42, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes and yes.  Tetrachloromethane (carbon tetrachloride) was used as a fire extinguishing agent, prior to ca. 1950 and it could (and did) produce i.a. phosgene if it came into contact with glowing-hot heavy metals (such as iron or copper) in the presence of air.  Besides its carcinogenity and intrinsic toxicity, this was one of the major reasons to phase it out post-WW 2.  Cheers,--37.49.110.89 (talk) 19:46, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Carbon_tetrachloride#Historical_uses|Carbon tetrachloride]] 

message: Contains a photograph of a pile of phosgene in Louisiana
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/06/louisiana-st-james-parish-lake-radioactive-industrial-waste-cancer-town-pollution-mosaic
84.226.214.17 (talk) 11:33, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another source 

message: Correct me if I'm wrong, but the United Arab hasn't existed for a very long time? Additionally, section 4.4 has no citations whatsoever.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Teritaal (talk • contribs) 13:06, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Produced in the United Arab Republic? 

message: Currently the intro reads oddly like it was written by this chemical’s PR agent: 
“ Phosgene is a valued industrial building block,…” with no mention of its toxicity or history of use as a chemical weapon. Cheakamus (talk) 11:37, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: "Phosgene is very poisonous and was used as a chemical weapon during World War I, where it was responsible for 85,000 deaths." - literally the 3rd line --Project Osprey (talk) 15:53, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Include toxicity and weapons use in intro, 

message: Pretty sure the K(eq) listed should be for 300 C not 300 K. If it were 300 K, it wouldn't be relevant to talking about reactions above 200 C because 300 K is about room temperature. Someone should verify the temperature and make the change if necessary Science Is My Life (talk) 18:02, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  K(eq) 

message: First sentence of the article says it's an "organic chemical compound", but the article is categorized as "Inorganic carbon compounds".  Don't think it makes sense to say it's both. 174.44.101.229 (talk) 16:50, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Organic or inorganic?