Talk:Sepphoris

message: *Oppose - This article is about the archealogical site, not the new moshav or Arab village. Some minor info on both of the 'newer' sites is allowed but the rest clutters up the article. --Shuki 22:07, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge? 

message: Considering the merge discussion above, I am wondering why Gilabrand keeps deleting material related to Saffuriya's Palestinian ties. I am restoring the material deleted and would appreciate it if the points could be discussed one by one before they are summarily removed without discussion once again. Thanks. Tiamut 09:24, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I gave my reasons for each edit - which you insist on blanket reverting. The sources for this material are "Palestine Remembered" which is not recognized as a neutral academic source. There is plenty of material that remains concerning the Arab village, and I gave equal "bold" status to the Arabic name, which was not done previously. But this is not a forum for the history of how many Palestinian villages were "destroyed" by Israel. This is an article about a site that was one of the most important Jewish towns in the Galilee, and the fact that some Arabs grew vegetables there is nice, but not what makes the place notable.--Gilabrand 09:51, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Giving reasons in edit summaries does not constitute discussion. Your edits also deleted sourced information. I am restoring the material again. Tiamut 18:59, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sorry Tiamut, but I have to agree with Gilabrand. Saffuriya is not notable for being a Palestinian village; Tzippori is notable for being a very significant ancient Jewish town. LordAmeth 22:03, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please provide a source that supports your claim that Saffuriya is not notable for being a Palestinian village and is only notable for being a very significant ancient Jewish town. Tiamut 18:59, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I find it likely that any source is going to explicitly state that any town is not notable for a particular thing. Rather, the burden of proof should be on you to prove that Saffuriya is of note as a Palestinian village, more notable than the hundreds or thousands of other Palestinian villages. LordAmeth 21:54, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

text: The article cites reliable sources that discuss the importance of Saffuriya to those Palestinians who were forced to leave it. This is a notable enough fact to have made appearances in mainstream newspapers like The Guardian and in journals such as the Middle East Report. These sources meet our WP:RS requirements. Even tour books mention that Tzippori was once home to thousands of Palestinians. Surely an encyclopedia should offer more in the way of history and context? Tiamut 22:12, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the article looks excellent the way it is right now. It seems balanced and unbiased, and discusses both the ancient Jewish significance and the recent Palestinian history, with neither topic overshadowing the other. I hope that you agree, and we can finally settle on a version of the article. I apologize if it ever seemed that my intent was to whitewash or to eliminate references to the Palestinian population of the town - my intention, rather, was simply to see that such information was presented in an unbiased fashion, and in such a way that it did not overshadow the other aspects of the location's history. Thanks for your efforts, your understanding, and your patience. LordAmeth 13:18, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

text: I carried out the merge. There was very little information, and included it all. While some level of expansion is reasonable, this isn't the place for repeating all sorts of information already found in Palestinian exodus and elsewhere. Gilabrand's current version seems fine, as all he removed was the "400" bit. TewfikTalk 18:52, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with the removal of the information of the 400 other villages. According to Ilan Pappe and others it was 531, and the discussion of the details would burden the introduction unnecessarily. I did reinsert the adjective Palestinian to describe the village, which Gilabrand also removed in that edit. It's an undisputed fact, mentioned by the source and it's good to clarify for the reader. Tiamut 19:10, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

text: That is fair enough. TewfikTalk 19:24, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm sorry, I didn't mean to delete that bit.--Gilabrand 20:16, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Material on Palestinians deleted

message: Should this have its own article? The moshav was established in 1949 on a hilltop adjacent to where the ancient site and the Arab village were located. It has its own history, that is not covered in this article. Tiamuttalk 11:59, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Moshav Tzippori

message: Perhaps you need to attach another image of the area?  The attached image is old and shows incorrect locations of other cities/ towns.  Thus "Cana" is placed in an incorrect position on said map, compared to modern maps!  It would be perfectly correct to keep the current map in place, if you were to point out that archaeology has since dismissed the placement shown on the old ones!69.92.23.64 (talk) 15:13, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Attached jpg. image contains incorrect data 

message: I would think that any article that discusses the importance of this city, should make some mention of the fresh water springs, that actually was the source of its importance in this area!  This water source made the city a perfect place for Jewish orthodox to build Mikvas, and it was a watering station for anyone travelling from the coast to the inland lake!  It was important enough for the Crusaders to stop there on their way to the disaster awaiting them at the Horns of Hattin!69.92.23.64 (talk) 15:26, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  The fresh water springs of Tzippori! 

message: Does anyone know where there is a map showing the boundary of the national park?  Thanks.  Zerotalk 13:29, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  map 

message: What evidence would that be? Wooden tables and chairs he made, signed "Jesus," found in Sepphoris, or what?? Orlando098 (talk) 13:14, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: A business card on parchment saying "Jesus, we are good carpenters!" was found.  Don't be skeptical.  Zerotalk 15:38, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Very funny --jae (talk) 19:20, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: "Archaeological evidence supports the idea that Jesus did most of his business there while living in Nazareth"

message: "Tzippori of the time of Jesus was a large, Roman-influenced city and hotbed of political activism. Archaeological evidence supports the idea that Jesus, while living in Nazareth, did most of his business in Tzippori."
This is cited to a TV show.  You should have gotten a transcript of the show and looked for the original papers by any archaeologists who had sound bytes on this subject.  Mass media doesn't understand science very well and sound bytes from scientists are necessarily quoted out of context which all too easily can be distorted.  I've said the same on other pages so don't feel insulted.
4.249.63.223 (talk) 19:10, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  TV shows 

message: The new population was loyal to Rome. what does 'new population' mean ?
The pro-Roman inhabitants of Tzippori did not join the resistance against Roman rule in the Great Jewish Revolt of 66 CE. Rather, they signed a pact with the Roman army and opened the gates of the city to the Roman general Vespasian upon his arrival in 67 CE[7] They were rewarded for this allegiance by having their city spared from the destruction suffered by many other Jewish cities, including Jerusalem. 
this language looks slanted to me. using the Ilan Ziv 'Searching for EXile' -film I re-worded the section and it seems to me  the section can assume quite quickly a very different aspect. it seems to me the Jerusalem caste could be viewed as a kind of Jewish-Taliban - priest fanatics, and just because Sepphoris didn't like being told what to do by this lot that doesn't make them traitors . IT seems a kind of Zionist pov is choosing pov-tendentious language. 'rewarded' and such - a kind of  extremist-sneer accompanies that language. which is fine I guess if its RS sourced but all the sources seenmed to be a site called Zionist education or something like that.  Anyway maybe I've bent the stick too far the other way now with my edits - I don't think so - but the section ibelieve was  pov and can we have RS sources - to books by historians , published by University Presses ideally, not to Zionist web sites throughout the section. Sayerslle (talk) 14:39, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you're reading into that passage what you want to read into it. Also, I regret to inform you that there is no contest running to see how many times the word "Zionist" can be worked into a single passage.--172.129.82.48 (talk) 08:50, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: pro-priest slanted language? in around-Jesus time history and  revolt

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071024013757/http://www.jalili48.com/pub/EN_ShowGallary.asp?GName=What_Remained_of_the_destroyed&SuName=Saffuryeh to http://www.jalili48.com/pub/EN_ShowGallary.asp?GName=What_Remained_of_the_destroyed&SuName=Saffuryeh
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: It ends in mid-sentence!  
I have no idea what was meant to be here, but it's broken.  (To those more expert than I:  please be civil while you fix it.)
Acwilson9 (talk) 06:51, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  4th paragraph of 1st section is broken 

message: We only have a vague reference to some Iron Age archaeological findings, which is almost taken back by the next sentence stating "Actual occupation and building work can be verified from the 4th century BCE". The Jewish sources cannot be taken as historical proof, as none looks even remotely contemporary: the Hebrew Bible itself makes no mention of the city, there are some "traditions", and they are referenced to Mishnah and Talmud passages, which are more recent by many, many centuries than any possible Iron Age (Israelite). Even mentioning a Canaanite Zippori on that base is a joke.
The Hebrew Bible can sometimes be used as a source, the Mishnah and the Talmud by themselves hardly ever.
Which leaves us with the question: when and who founded Zippori, the ancient city documented throughout classical antiquity? What do the researchers say? Arminden (talk) 03:50, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't find anything pre-Roman. Zerotalk 00:10, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  History up until Hellenistic period