Talk:Dual diagnosis

message: "Dual Diagnosis" has been used to refer to the occurrence of Mental Illness in people with Mental Retardation (nowadays called Intellectual Disability, Learning Disability, Developmental Disability, etc) at least since the founding in 1983 of the National Association for the Dually Diagnosed: see their website at www.thenadd.org. This usage is generally not known to mental health professionals, who typically consider learning disabled people to be immune to mental illness. The anonymous editor who excised this meaning of the term from the main article a fortnight ago obviously shares that belief. NRPanikker (talk) 01:13, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Speaking of vernacular, how does this article's term differentiate from co-occurring disorders? Are they the same? JoeSmack Talk 21:46, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No, in general it is not usual to speak of someone with two medical conditions as having a "dual diagnosis." However in psychiatry more pains are taken to bring all the phenomena observed under one heading. The term "dual diagnosis" can be used to refer to people with mental retardation who develop a mental illness. The expression seems to have been introduced because separate training leads many mental health workers to assume that the two conditions cannot coexist, or to be so struck by the presence of mental retardation as to be unable to see the mental illness: this is the converse phenomenon, known as "diagnostic overshadowing." It can be seen in the main article, where another editor removed the account of this condition, through inability to accept the existence of intellectual diability at all, and substituted the other use of the phrase, for the co-existence of mental illness with substance abuse. NRPanikker (talk) 23:29, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Dual

message: You know the prevalence section opens with talk of a 'substance misuse disorder'. Never heard of that one - maybe it's from the DSM III? I'm not that young at 25 am I? Both links do not mention a misuse disorder in the abstract, only an abuse/dependence disorder as the DSM IV actually has spelled out... JoeSmack Talk 04:02, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  'substance misuse disorder' 

message: Psychiatric disorders are not medical diseases. [citation needed] There are no lab tests, brain scans, X-rays or chemical imbalance tests that can verify any mental disorder is a physical condition requiring psychiatric drugs. [citation needed] This is a controversial position to publish uncited. NAMI http://www.nami.org/template.cfm?section=about_mental_illness states the opposite in the first line of its definition of "Mental Illness." NAMI makes this claim without proof by just comparing "Mental Illness" to diabetes, there are many lab tests for diabetes to confirm diabetes is a medical disease. NAMI gets a significant portion of its funding from pharmaceutical companies, up to 75%.http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2009/10/22/nami-nearly-75-percent-of-funding-from-pharma/http://www.nami.org/Content/NavigationMenu/Inform_Yourself/About_NAMI/Governance/Major_Foundation_and_Corporate_Support/WebRegistry1Q2009.pdf
I moved this section out of the article, because it is rather like a discussion. Please, whoever worked on this text, discuss here! Lova Falk talk 17:49, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Are psychiatric disorders medical diseases? 

message: The section titled "Overview" is not about what the rest of the article covers.  Per WP:NOTDIC, articles cover topics, not terms, so having an article cover two topics that happen to have the same term is not appropriate. I don't know if there is an existent place for this tangential information, but if there isn't then we should split this into two separate articles.  I'm not sure what the titles should be, we might do co-occurring disorders and dual diagnosis with clarifying hatnotes to help disambiguate.  We could also have both of them called "dual diagnosis" but with disambiguating parentheticals on both (with a subsequent disambiguation page) or on just one.  Thoughts? — Æµ§œš¹ [ãːɱ ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɪ̃ə̃nlɪ] 21:08, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: You are quite right, and, to confuse matters even more, as far as I understand, in DSM-5 some diagnoses will be moved to different axes. I think I would prefer both to be called dual diagnosis with parentheticals but I can't come up with a good idea for short descriptions. Lova Falk talk 09:35, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I just chopped a fair bit from the overview section, as it really wasn't relevant or useful.  I think if there is going to be a section or an article on concurrent axis I and II disorders, it should give information on the interaction between the two, rather than simply a) this is what happens with axis I, and b) this is what happens with axis II.  There is some mention later in the article about integrated treatment for concurrent mental and substance use disorders, which is a useful type of information to include (I'll beef that up a bit when I have more time). From what I've read, it sounds like dual diagnosis is an older term that is being replaced by co-occurring disorders (more American usage) or concurrent disorders (more Canadian usage). Ashleyleia (talk) 22:53, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Off-topic section (split?)

message: I removed the following text from the article: 
Sciacca reported a key early integrated treatment approach which began in 1984 in New York state.[16] This began in an outpatient mental health clinic and expanded to a state-wide initiative. This initiative crossed systems to include substance abuse programs, homeless services, and criminal justice services. It included inpatient, outpatient and residential treatment. This initiative addressed screening, assessment, outcome measures and treatment. This treatment approach, along with its training curriculum and program implementation model, was also adapted across systems in various states including Michigan.[17] In 1993, evidence based interventions such as motivational interviewing, the stages of change and cognitive behavioral therapy were integrated into the dual diagnosis treatment model and comprise the treatment approach and integrated care model that exists today [18]
16. Sciacca, K. 1996 "On Co-occurring Addictive and Mental Disorders: A Brief History of the Origins of Dual Diagnosis Treatment and Program Development" American Journal of Orhtopsychiatry (66) 3, July 1996.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/16684317/On-Cooccurring-Addictive-Mental-Disorders-a-Brief-History-Kathleen-Sciacca 
17. Sciacca, K., Thompson, C.M., 1996 "Program Development and Integrated Treatment Across Systems for Dual Diagnosis: Mental Illness, Drug Addiction and Alcoholism, MIDAA"  The Journal of Mental Health Administration, Vol. 23, No.3, Summer 1996, 288-297. 
http://www.scribd.com/doc/17223077/Program-Development-and-Integrated-Treatment-Across-Systems-for-Dual-Diagnosis-Kathleen-Sciacca 
18. Sciacca, K. 2009 "Best Practices for Dual Diagnosis Treatment and Program Development: Co-Occurring Mental Illness and Substance Disorders in Various Combinations" The Praeger International Collections on Addictions, Editor, Angela Brown-Miller, Vol.3, Chapt.9, Pgs. 161-188, Praeger Westport, CT. London, 
http://www.scribd.com/doc/21801032/BestPracticesForDualDiagnosisTreatment-ProgramDevelopment-Co-occurring-Mental-Illness-Substance-Disorders-Kathleen-Sciacca-2009 ''
My reason for removing this text is that the treatment section is a general section with broad information. No doubt that this is a nice approach, but it is way too specific for this article. This is an encyclopedia for the whole world. I know a similar initiative in a treatment center in Sweden, and I guess they exist throughout the world. Please, before putting this back into the article, tell us why Sciacca's approach is notable. With friendly regards, Lova Falk talk 10:56, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi there!  Thanks for providing so much information on the background of Sciacca and her contributions.  Could you provide a reliable secondary or tertiary source in which the author discusses Sciacca's notability as a founder of treatment(s) for dual diagnosis (or point us to where that information is located in the sources currently provided)?  I think that would help indicate whether and where to reintegrate this information into the article.  Firecatalta (talk) 02:32, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi 24.215.246.197. I undid my edit and Sciacca is back in. I tried to formulate a response to you but I just don't have the energy. I'll remove this article from my watchlist. Lova Falk talk 17:39, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sciacca removed 

message: The section "External references" (which actually was not so much a references section as a Further reading section) had grown out of control, so I have moved it out of the article into this talk page. Please see Wikipedia:Further reading and put only entries that are topical, reliable and balanced, and please, keep the section limited in size. "Wikipedia is not a catalogue of all existing works." Please, if you add an entry back into the article, motivate why. Thank you! Lova Falk talk 11:00, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  "External references" 

message: '
Hi all!  I've re-removed the text below.  The current sources are primary, which is fantastic once we have already established Sciacca's notability by way of secondary or tertiary sources, but until then, we need some secondary or tertiary sources that explain why Sciacca is notable enough to be included in this article.  Does anyone have access to such sources?  If so, please reply with the appropriate reliable, secondary or tertiary (not written by Scaccia) sources to back up Scaccia's inclusion in this article.  Thanks!  Firecatalta (talk) 00:17, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sciacca removed again 

message: Apart from "dual diagnosis" and "co-occurring disorders" there is at least another name "dual disorders pathology", with its own Wikipedia page.
I suggest that "dual disorders pathology" page (which is also marked as an orphan) should be merged with this "dual diagnosis" page.
---
The following comment is not mine and does not address the same topic I started. Cesarsalgado (talk) 08:40, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm in favor of merging.  The user who made the comment below is still getting the hang of formatting; I'm going to go ahead and make a new thread for them.  Firecatalta (talk) 20:23, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge alternatively named pages for the same concept 

message: Substituted at 21:40, 26 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: RESPONSE TO FIRECATALTA - i have not made any changes to any part of the text on the dual diagnosis page. I am trying to communicate with editor "FIRECATALTA".
I CLICKED ON YOUR NAME ( A LIVE LINK) AND I DO NOT SEE ANY WAY TO SEND YOU A MESSAGE at your page.
I am used to not knowing what to do on wikipedia.
I hope you will receive and provide a timely reply to this new message May 23, 2017.
WE HAVE HAD SOME INTRICATE DISCUSSIONS REGARDING SCIACCA'S CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE FIELD OF DUAL DIAGNOSIS. THE SENTENCE
IN THE "HISTORY" SECTION REFERENCES VERY LITTLE OF THAT CONTRIBUTION AND DOES NOT CLARIFY the breadth and scope of the initial work
and the evolution stemming from that initial work. The notice of Sciacca SEEMs EXTREMELY MARGINALIZED
FOR SOMEONE WHO WAS THE INNOVATOR OF ANY TREATMENT WHATSOEVER FOR THE TREATMENT OF A WORLDWIDE NEGLECTED POPULATION
OF PEOPLE WHO HAD SERIOUS ILLNESSES AND WERE TREATED AS CRIMINALS in many cases.  IN ADDITION THE KEY LINE IN the history section  
...THE MID 1980's etc., etc. references one Sciacca publication and a Drake, et. al. publication - Drake, et. al. had done nothing in regards to dual diagnosis 
in the mid 1980's, they were not even on the scene  and should not be referenced there in the same sentence which implies they made contributions during the 
time of inception of treatment in 1984 for the dually diagnosed which they did not.
In addition I have searched out other sources of articles/ videos (one in the library of congress) primary, secondary, tertiary, etc.
These denote this "first" original, pioneering work where the ground work was performed and demonstrated and the difficult task
of creating enthusiasm for mental health workers to treat substance abuse and substance abuse programs to acknowledge and address
mental health - this yielded program development across systems and services and statewide initiatives where nothing had been done
before and a great deal of neglect and frustration ensued.
I look forward to hearing from you to review the exchanges we have had and the additional materials I have acquired.  
I am hopeful that a just result will ensue here.  I am very uncomfortable to leave this as it is. 69.86.190.126 (talk) 04:59, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  RESPONSE TO FIRECATALTA - i have not made any changes to any part of the text on the dual diagnosis page. I am trying to communicate with editor "FIRECATALTA". I CLICKED ON YOUR NAME ( A LIVE LINK) AND I DO NOT SEE ANY WAY TO SEND YOU A MESSAGE at your pa