Talk:Half-Life 2/Archive 2

message: Hi everyone, sorry, I'm quite new to this, so I first inserted the info and didn't discuss first. So here goes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Hl2_railway_signal_1.jpg shows the railway signal you can see when you first exit the train at the start of the game and then look to your upper half right hand side. 
* The signal screen is almost identical to today's french rw signals.
* The "Nf" tag (non franchissable) also frequently appears on those.
* The small shunting lamp to the lower left of the display also appears in reality, but only in stations.
* One difference is the wrong big lamps' colors, another the fact that the "Nf" is comparatively big compared to reality.
* No explanation for the "c 05" yet, however, in reality this doesn't seem to exist.
(A friend of mine is quite competent with french railway and he agreed that they are very, very similar. The french system is somewhat unique in europe.)
Some pics of real ones:
*http://membres.lycos.fr/HKoe/france/arzville.jpg
*http://membres.lycos.fr/HKoe/france/guingamp.jpg
*http://www.tuby.com/tdv/signal/signaux/7.gif (from http://www.tuby.com/tdv/signal/)
What do you think? Chr0n0ss 17:34, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah-ha.  That's a bit more interesting.  Would any of our Bulgarian contributors (that is, "contributors who are Bulgarian" and "contributors on all things Bulgarian") care to comment on the railway sign?  Might be that "Nf" means something in Eastern Europe as well.  It looks like City 17 might be a montage of Europe rather than one country after all.  --Plumbago 17:38, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: There's also some Norwegian and Polish text in the game. I wouldn't put too much store in the languages, they were likely picked based on what looks good rather than where they originated. --Tom Edwards 17:44, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree. But for me, the question raises: Why the distinctive french stuff, and no fantasy good looking ones... --Chr0n0ss 17:57, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think that's because they like to use real world material. So I'd imagine what happened is they collected various signs from different countries/locales and decided "that looks nice, lets base our signs off that one".  --Subtlesnake 21:18, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  City 17 in France? 

message: Can anyone find some updates sales for Half-Life 2? All I can find is the same stuff about the 1.7 millon sales that is in the article now. I know its sold a ton more than that, becuase ever since it was released through like mid-summer, it was consistently in the top 10 PC game sales figures that I saw on IGN and other places, but I haven't seen where they have announced a total from November until now. Thunderbrand 01:49, September 1, 2005 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure there are no more sales figures.  To get them you need to pay a lot of money, which is why sites just list the order of the titles, and not the figures themselves. Neither Vivendi or Valve have released any more figures AFAIK. --Subtlesnake 12:36, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: 3 million. --Tom Edwards 20:36, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, thanks for that. Now it can be updated in the article. Thunderbrand 23:53, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  New sales figures? 

message: I've been talking with K1Bond007 on what to do to fix this article up a bit more. He'll be helping with it some and so will I. To see a list of what to do, just go to my talk page. This is just a short list of what to do now; I'm sure there are some other things that need fixed up. And by the way, I took out that screenshot because it really doesn't show much and isn't a good shot in general. Thunderbrand 15:31, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I put the maps in a table. I think there are more, but i forget...I haven't played DM in a while. If there are any more, feel free to add them. I just looked at the map table on the Day of Defeat article, so if a new column needs added, just look there on how to. Thunderbrand 15:50, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Are all these 'official' maps? First, I don't think they need their own section. Within the multiplayer section should suffice. But if these are official maps then I think we should note this to stave off anonymous user #9678 from coming along and adding his/her name to the list and map they created or whatever. I can see this becoming a problem. I've only played DM a handful of times so I really don't know much about it. K1Bond007 16:40, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Speaking of maps, should the mapping contest for HL2 DM be mentioned? Nufy8 17:51, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

text: I'm pretty sure they are official. The ones that won the contest were put in the regular rotation (servers that just use official maps.) The contest probably could be mentioned, but just a sentence should do it. Thunderbrand 20:07, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Valve bought the maps from their makers, which doubled as their prize money, as is standard practice for adopted content. --Tom Edwards 07:21, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  New stuff to do 

message: Maybe a comparison between Half-Life 2 and V could be made. Example similarities:
* 1. Foreign invaders purport to be allies
* 2. Human-run "enforcement" groups are set up
* 3. Invaders have control over the media
* 4. Aliens want to take over the planet while draining Earth's water (well, in early HL² drafts)
* 5. Scientists are the backbone to the resistance group
* 6. A simple symbol is used by freedom fighters (original, huh?)
* 7. Character named Elias (okay, that is a long shot)
* 8. One of the resistance fighters betrays the group (an even longer shot, I know)
Joshtek 02:34, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I dunno. I was even thinking of taking the comparison between it and Nineteen Eighty-Four out, since it was one of the main gripes of why this article didn't become a featured one. I fear if we keep adding comparisons, it will be too cluttered. Part of what you listed above seem kind of vague and could fit a lot of other forms of games, movies, etc. Thunderbrand 02:39, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd consider removing it unless someone can provide credible references to cite this information. Otherwise, it and the comparison to V (above in this discussion) obviously falls under original research, which is bad. K1Bond007 04:50, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

text: Yeah, I think I might unless there is a lot of objection. No where in the Rasing the Bar book does it say that they specifically referred to Ninteen Eighty-Four or any website that I know of. Thunderbrand 13:26, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair enough. Comparisons can be dropped until we find some proper research. Joshtek 15:44, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comparison with TV's V 

message: The article is just about done being cleaned up. I would like everyone to give the page a good read and see if anything was missed or any links need fixed up. Also, K1Bond007 said there should be a couple more references in the article. I'll try to find some but anyone else can help too. Thunderbrand 15:23, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I fixed the GameSpot reference. It was actually a dead link, but it works now. After re-reading the lead paragraph, does anyone thing that the words "ground-breaking" are too POV? In many ways, the game is, but I also read the GameSpot review and they said it wasn't ground breaking, but as in any review, its one person's opinion. Thoughts? Thunderbrand 15:53, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sure you can find several sources that call it ground-breaking (or something similar) and just make sure to cite them. Nufy8 16:52, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I changed it to the more generic "advancements", so it sounds a little better. There is one more thing bugging me: the Half-Life 2 controversies and criticisms link under "Further reading". To me, it seems like its relegated at the bottom and nothing is written about it. I'm afraid that someone will bring it up when under FAC. Although in some parts of the article it mentions some criticism about the storyline. Should there be a summary about it or not? Thunderbrand 21:06, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it's fine. There was a section for this earlier that was absolutely pointless so I moved it there. Either leave it alone or work it into the intro or a part of the article on the game's release - probably under Steam. K1Bond007 21:49, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

text: I guess I'll leave it alone. The reason I keep pointing out stuff is that I'm nervous. Thunderbrand 22:12, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Fix as they, if they, object. I really don't think this is that big of a deal and a crappy sentence such as "HL2 has many controversies and critcisms" won't do the article justice. Note: this is almost the exact line we had before when I moved it and to Further reading. K1Bond007 22:21, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

text: I've submitted it for FAC. Let's hope it goes well. Thunderbrand 04:50, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, some of the problems people had were just nitpicks. My problem with FAC is that most of the people supporting/opposing don't actually read the articles. I hate to use an example, but I'll do it anyway: the "problem with the images" - he obviously didn't take the time to read the article. Maybe he skimmed it, but he didn't actually "read" it - same for the guy who wanted to know where the "leaked source code" information was. Hell that was mentioned and linked in the intro. Sad. All the pieces are there for this article as you stated. Just wait a while, tinker with the page a little, and resubmit. No big deal. K1Bond007 03:46, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I suppose so. The things they listed that aren't in the article, like awards, can easily be put in, although there was actually an "Awards" section but got too big and was removed. Thunderbrand 15:02, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Half-Life2/awards. :-) --Tom Edwards 15:47, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

text: Limit it to the most influential awards to keep the size down. This article is great, but, except for one, nothing was really done to address people's objections at all. Some of the objections could eaily have been fixed.  For example, three lines added to the release section about the game's delay due to a souce code leak with the appropriate wikilinks and an explanation to the objector about how more detail is located in the sub-articles could very well have satisfied James Pinnell's objection. Also you could have tried going half-way with Carnildo's objection about the images. Fair Use images should be used sparingly and removing one or two and explaining why you feel the others should stay could have been productive compromise. MechBrowman 17:43, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Well I still disagree. He essentially objected to the entire article because of one image that he never gave a good reason for wanting to remove. First he said it wasn't discussed. It was discussed. Then he said it wasn't important. It is. We shouldn't have to compromise by removing an image for the sake of removing an image. No other article has been held to these criteria where one more image that is relevant and discussed is too much (ex. Doom, Super Mario 64, Wario - then count films and other similar featured articles) etc. Just wait.. we'll resubmit sometime in the future with the same images and no one will say a thing. Oh well.. as I said, we'll fix it up more and resubmit in the future. It's no big deal. K1Bond007 19:16, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The home stretch 

message: This line: 
Some total conversions have also been developed, which introduce completely new settings, multiplayer modes, or entirely new and original types of games such as Dystopia and GoldenEye: Source
strikes me as odd.
I think GoldenEye Source wouldn't be an original game type, because it's based off of the Goldeneye James Bond game for N64. Can't we take that part out and substitute something like Garry's Mod or SourceForts, something new and completely original (Leaving Dystopia where it is of course, it's fine.)
:Yeah, some anon put that in there. I'll take it out now. Nufy8 19:20, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  total conversions 

message: This page says HL2 is rated 16, 15, and '?' in different EU countries, but the boxes show 18. What are we going to do about this? My vote is stick with the 18 rating as it is more likely to be up to date. --Tom Edwards 17:40, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I guess I would go with the 18 rating. That's the first time I've seen the European box art so I wouldn't be 100% sure. Thunderbrand 17:45, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Uh, you have to copy and paste the link -- otherwise, it redirects to Google. --Yar Kramer 20:43, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  PEGI Rating 

message: "Steam sales account for 25% of overall custom;"... custom doesn't makes sense. - RoyBoy 800 22:53, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: 'Custom' is another word for 'sales'. I'll change it now. --Tom Edwards 17:18, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Whoop, no need to. :-) --Tom Edwards 17:19, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead paragraph 

message: An interesting glitch found in Half Life 2 is that players can fly by grabbing a planar object, looking downwards and jumping continuously.
This is a part from the Speedrun article that I'm working on. Can anybody explain what exactly this is and how it works? Thanks :) --Michiel Sikma 19:17, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The player exerts a force on the object, but the object doesn't exert a force on the player. Thus it is possible to fly upwards, or in any direction you can manage. :-) --Tom Edwards 13:34, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for that explanation, but it still isn't totally clear to me exactly what it is. So you "exert force" on an object (by jumping while holding it)? How would this make you fly? Are there certain circumstances that need to be present? Perhaps you could give me a concrete example of the glitch used at some point in the game. Again, thanks for the trouble! --Michiel Sikma 22:28, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know any more about it, sorry. --Tom Edwards 09:46, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: A planar object is something which has a flat plane to it, it seems. From what I know from the game, when an object is "held" by Gordon, it ceases to be affected by gravity or force affected on it until released (from his gravity well, so to speak). That said, when Gordon jumps while holding an appropriate object and looking down, he won't land on the ground, but on the object he's holding (because the object always is "held" straight in front of his face). Since the object isn't affected by Gordon, he can jump again to gain additional height, and his platform will follow him as long as it is held. Theoretically (if the game allowed it), he could eventually jump free of the Earth's atmosphere and out into space. Does that help any?
Viewer 01:01, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It works because the gravity gun (and possibly jumping off stuff, but I haven't tested it) don't obey Newton's third law. When you pull stuff towards you, you don't experience an equal force towards the object. Which is helpful, because if you tried to pull something heavy/stuck in place, you'd be dragged towards it. Which is even more exploitable... Also, when you jump off something, it should be pushed downwards. But I don't think this happens either. So because you're always above the flat object, you always pull it upwards, so the object experiences a constant force upwards, while the player experiences nothing but normal gravity. And you can get over that by jumping off the object below you. They could fix it by making the gravity gun actually obey physics, by making it obey Newton's third, and work by lowering the mass of whatever you're attracting. And make it so a downforce is applied to whatever is underneath you when you jump. If they don't already. --82.47.23.237 02:15, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Glitch 

message: Could someone please try to find a more recent picture of the Half-Life 2 box image?
It's been officially rated 'M' since 2004.
--Von 09:09, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I know, but the "RP" image is the best one I have seen. I've seen it with the "M" logo but those ones are super small and would look tacky. If someone wants to scan theirs that it OK I guess. Thunderbrand 20:27, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Half-Life 2 Box Image 

message: I think it's worth considering the possibility than the "Combine" is a tip of the hat to Ken Kesey's novel "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest."
:See discussion in The Combine article talk page for details. ╫ ２５ ◀RingADing▶ 07:57, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The "Combine" 

message: Ok so one thing everybody knows do to the resistance fighters in follow freeman chapter there are NO KIDS in HL2 but in several occasions there are childrens toys scattered through out the game such as: in point insurtion there is a playground with childrens toys and in the beginning of anticitizen one there is a baby doll in the elavator so why are these items here? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Spike Spiegle (talk • contribs) .
:At one time there were kids, but since the Combine use suppression field-things to inhibit human breeding, there are no kids. The toys and playground serve as a reminder, since they are in disrepair and look old. Thunderbrand 03:45, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Consider this 

message: "However, the strange technology of the gravity gun absorbs the energy from the beam and shorts it out. It can now manipulate organic matter, instantly killing Combine forces, destroying their weapons and its lift strength is greatly increased, enabling Gordon to lift huge metal objects as easily as wooden planks."
Here it states that the ZPEFM is what is destroying the soldier’s weapons. This isn’t proven; in fact I always thought it was something to do with the citadel. It just doesn’t makes sense that it would destroy their weapons and not other equipment (though it was done from a gameplay point of view rather than story)
:They lose their weapons as the Gravity Gun is used on them. Why would the Citadel, where they are intended to be stationed, have anything to do with them losing their weapons? Also, even if the gun is used on them outside the Citadel, they lose their weapons. Again, not really a POV issue. Nufy8 23:28, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It makes sense because the DEGG is enhanced by the Combine Confiscation Field, which destroys all the weapons it touches. So thus, it destroys the weapons the soldiers have in their inventory due to the Confiscation Field still exerting its force on the Gravity Gun. AK-17 14:38, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gravity Gun in Citadel 

message: This section has nothing to do with the game itself, it might be better off by itself? As it is now it's basically just a list of things Half-Life 2 is not. Poulsen 17:46, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would say it is important. It was things that the game was at one time. Thunderbrand 15:18, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But... practically every game have features that were cut for gameplay or technical reasons. Corvomsg 15:45, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Half-Life series in particular place a lot of emphasis on the narrative. There are a lot of legends, guesses, conspiracy theories and what not when it comes to Half Life storyline. It is, therefore, most interesting and informative to trace the Laidlaw's thinking, and the evolution of HL2 world. I say, keep all cuts. Matveims 20:00, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Split off "Cuts from the game" 

message: I've seen the currency "krona" (I think they spelled it like this) on a petrol pump. Krone is the currency in Norway and Denmark (and Estonia?). In Sweden it's kronor. I think the game location is eastern europe. Does anyone have any sugestions?
Some sighns are in english and some are in russian. Also on the highway you can notice an old broken and dumped car of russian mark, which is commonly used by countrys that were once a part of USSR. But those cars are pretty old. Also I have read that one of the head producers(?) is from country near Ukraine and Russia. And don't forget father Grigory with heavy russian accent. But english sighns point that location is near UK or Germany, France. 
So, basiclly the location is somewhere in the middle of Europe, but closer to Russia.
kniaz March 31, 2006 10:19 PM.
:It seems to me that it is probably quite a bit farther east than people assume. Primarily, this is because, having lived in Russia, I know that even today there are probably almost as many signs in English as there are in Russian. And the game takes place some time in the future. Also, actual places, like Nova Prospekt, though written in English appear, to me, completely Russian. So my guess would be somewhere in the western part of the former USSR. Although there is still the question of why the minor NPCs don't speak with a Russian accent... DarkWizzard 15:37, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The petrol pump textures are definitaly Swedish - they also sport words such as summa (sum/total), volym (volume) and liter (litres). Krona is the singular form of kronor. One shouldn't read too much into this tidbit, though, the only conclusion to draw is that this photo of an old rusty Swedish pump was thought by someone to fit into that environment. /Mr. Anonsson 02:20, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

text: i've been thinking about this for a while. the City_17 page has a few good theories; though for a while i've considered odesa, ukraine to be the location. 129.137.91.189 17:57, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Location 

message: How does this trip actually work? Why is there never any explenation given for the extreme movement of the main characters? More importantly, why don't the minor NPCs have Russian accents? Jackpot Den 18:00, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Combine shuffling of the Humans explains movement, and as for the accents- a wizard did it. :) AK-17 14:40, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  From new mexico, USA to City 17, Eastern Europe 

message: "In the middle of playing "fetch," the lab is attacked..."
I believe there is a small typo in this sentence. I changed it two days ago, but it seems Nufy8 didn't care for this, and reverted my edit. Why is this? --80.111.112.152 02:17, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Punctuation is inclusive in American English quotations, and since the rest of the article conforms to this style, changing it would make it inconsistent. Nufy8 02:55, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Typo and revert