Talk:Erast Fandorin

message: well, I checked the text, too, and it's; Dolgorukoi 
:Такими словами приветствовал принаряженного коллежского асессора всемогущий хозяин матушки-Москвы князь Владимир Андреевич Долгорукой.
"Dolgorutski" must be an artefact of some translation (this is different from Sobolev, who is actually so named  in the original. dab (ᛏ) 21:59, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The name of Moscow's governor in the novels should indeed be Dolgorukoi, after Yuri Dolgoruky (Grand Prince George I of Russia), who founded Moscow. Kazak 04:35, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Dolgorutski

message: As far as I can judge, B. Akunin gives "Fandorine", not "Fandorin", as the proper English version of the surname "Фандорин": Erast's grandson, being a British citizen, is "Sir Nicholas А. Fandorine, M.A., Bt." (see ) -- Alexander Gerashchenko 10:44, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: that's a fictional anglicization of the name, Sir Nicholas' father emigrated to Britain and adopted that spelling. It is not the transliteration used for Erast's surname (otherwise the anglicization of Nicholas' surname would be lost to English readers): Erast's surname is transliterated Fandorin in English , but Fandorine in French.  dab (ᛏ) 11:14, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

text: no, no, Erast (in the 19th century) is called Fandorin (a Russification of German von Dorn). His grandson Nicholas, who lives in England, is called Fandorine. As Nicholas moves back to Russia, his (originally Russian (still more originally German)) name is mispronounced by Russians because of hyper-English pronunciation of its Latin alphabet spelling. This is all irrelevant to Erast, who never anglicized his name and is simply called Fandorin. Does that make sense? I further imagine that the English mispronunciation has its stress on the a while the Russian name has it on the o. dab (ᛏ) 22:23, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I absolutely agree. Errabee 22:37, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps I am being stupid here, but, as an American who does not speak Russian but has read all the existing English translations of the Fandorin novels, I can tell you that the correct English spelling is "Fandorin", because that is, in point of fact, the way Erast Fandorin's name is spelled in all four of the currently available English-language Fandorin novels.  That's definitive, is it not? Vidor 07:52, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: no that's not the point, but see Russian_transliteration#Transliteration_table: Фандорин transliterates to Fandorin in every single transliteration scheme. That's because each of the name's letter has a straightforward Roman counterpart. Фэндорайн otoh (the 'mispronunciation') can be rendered Fèndorajn, Fėndoraĭn etc., depending on your preferred scheme (but since it is a Cyrillic rendition of English phonology, it will of course be spelled simply Fandorine in an English translation). dab (ᛏ) 08:59, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

text: @Vidor, thank you for your additions. Unfortunately I had to revert part of it, as it messed up the headers. I hope you can agree with what's written now. Errabee 10:12, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think I will add a little more about "Special Assignments" being the English version of two Russian novels.  Otherwise it looks just fine.  When I checked back on this article last night, the list of Fandorin novels had the title, "Special Assignments", and no text whatsoever underneath.  Am chomping at the bit for Special Assignments to come out, BTW.  If only I spoke Russian. Vidor 20:17, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, this stuff is addictive :) disclaimer, my Russian isn't good enough to read them in the original either. But I am grateful for the online text for the occasional comparison of a turn of phrase. dab (ᛏ) 21:13, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I can read them in the original, but it takes an ungodly amount of time with my knowledge of the Russian language ;) So I prefer to read them in translation as well (but I do have all the Russian copies in print). Errabee 21:15, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Spelling

message: After writing the note above I thought further about this article.  I think the listing for "Special Assignments" should say that it's an English translation of two novels and that it's not out in print yet.  However, that makes the "Translations" section below redundant, as it says the same thing.  Here are my suggestions: 1) Take out the redundant "Translations" section, and perhaps put a line of text somewhere in the main body about the Fandorin novels being translated into several languages.  2) Expand the "Translations" section to include a comprehensive list of which Fandorin novels have been translated into French, German, Spanish, Mandarin Chinese, and other important world languages.  Unfortunately I would have no idea where to find this information.  Maybe someone who speaks Russian could ask Boris Akunin or his publishers. But we really should do one or the other rather than leave the "Translations" section dangling redundantly. Vidor 20:39, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How's this? The info from Germany and Italy I got from the German and Italian Wikipedia, respectively, and because I'm Dutch, I'm very aware of the situation in the Netherlands. Errabee 21:01, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That is excellent.  Hopefully Fandorin fans from other countries will stumble upon this article and add further info, but what you put is excellent. Vidor 21:04, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Another user deleted the list entry for "Special Assignments".  Therefore I decided to go ahead and take the notes out of the list entries for "The Jack of Spades" and "The Decorator" and leave the "Special Assignments" info in the Translations section, as before. Vidor 06:33, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I just realized that the two books were published together also in Russian, sorry. (ᛎ) qɐp 10:49, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow, so they are.  If you look at the section of Akunin's website that includes the texts of the first six Fandorin books, "The Jack of Spades" and "The Decorator" have the same covers.  Perhaps someone who speaks Russian can give us more info about the manner in which those books were published.  Were they published together under a different title, a-la "Special Assignments"?  Or simply bound together under their own titles? Vidor 08:31, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They were bound together as Special Assignments. Errabee 09:10, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

text: In Russian as well as in English?  All righty then.  Here I've been thinking the whole time that "Special Assignments" was organized in that form specifically for us Anglophones.  Vidor 10:10, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Oh, I thought your question was already answered. My apologies if that wasn't quite clear. Errabee 07:56, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, you did answer it above.  I just had to find it for myself to make sure. Vidor 08:07, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Translations

message: Anyone have any info on the comic adaptation of Azazel? I own it, but my copy's in another country.
:Thanks for the heads up. I was able to find some info. Errabee 10:21, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Comics

message: What was the thinking behind deleting the Russian titles of some of the Fandorin novels? Vidor 15:02, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: they were not deleted, they were exported to the various sub-articles. I agree that for all the recent expansion, the article is now lacking a clean overview list of novels (title, original title, year, ISBN). How about adding one back? dab (ᛏ) 17:19, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They were deleted from the main article, for no reason I can see. Vidor 18:00, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I exported them to the subarticles, because I felt that they were a distraction from the flow of the text. If you want to read about Fandorin, and some Russian characters pop in every paragraph, this does not allow for easy reading for readers who are not familiar with cyrillic. Furthermore, the subtitles are difficult to translate, and it was a comment from the WP:RFF that got me thinking. I'm planning to create stubs for the other novels as well, so all the Russian titles can be moved there. I'm sympathetic to adding an overview, but think it should all be concentrated in one area, so the cyrillic can easily be skipped for readers not familiar with it. Errabee 23:07, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I disagree completely.  First, in at least two cases--"The Winter Queen" and "Murder on the Leviathan"--the English book title is DIFFERENT than the Russian book title.  In the first case, completely different.  That should be reflected in the main article.  Secondly, I don't think it's too distracting to have one line saying "Russian  Азазель, Azazel" or "Russian Турецкий гамбит".  These are, after all, books from Russia originally published in Russian.  Leaving out the subtitles is OK, I guess, but all the articles really, really should have one line with the Russian title in the original Cyrillic.  I will put them back if no one objects. Vidor 13:26, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

text: How about adding a table as an overview? Put everything not related to the story in one separate paragraph, that's easier to read. Errabee 22:16, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How about this solution? Errabee 02:59, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Love the table.  Great job, Errabee. Vidor 13:16, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You're now okay with removing the Cyrillic from the lower sections? If so, I'll continue to create the individual articles and moving the info to those pages. Errabee 14:02, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yup. Sure am. Vidor 00:47, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Russian titles?

message: Is it an idea to list only information about the English translation, and create a page Erast Fandorin in translation in which all languages and countries are mentioned? I think that the current section is either not complete, or going to get very long. Errabee 11:07, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: An excellent idea.  But leave the pictures of the translations in the main article, as they do make the page look nicer, unless you can substitute film stills.  BTW, I have a sneaking, and very depressing, suspiction that "Special Assignments" isn't going to be published in the USA.  I can't find anything about it at the Random House website, and the American version of Amazon.com doesn't have a listing, despite the fact that Amazon.uk has had a listing for several months, with the Jan. '07 publication date.  Does anybody have info? Vidor 13:29, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Very sorry to hear that. Unfortunately I don't have any additional info. Why don't you try e-mailing Random House? Errabee 22:14, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  translations 

message: Paul Verhoeven had a 1-hour interview on Dutch radio today. He briefly mentioned The Winter Queen as a film he wanted to make next year, but nothing was certain yet. Errabee 02:51, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Paul Verhoeven still wants to make a film out of The Winter Queen 

message: I'm getting a little confused here. Which titles should we use, UK or US titles? In at least two cases they are different: Leviathan (Weidenfeld and Nicolson, UK) vs Murder on the Leviathan (Phoenix Press, Random House) and Turkish Gambit (W&N, UK and Phoenix Press) vs The Turkish Gambit (Random House) Errabee 17:37, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Speaking as an American, I'd say use the American, because there are more of us.  :)  Plus, both of those novels already have their own articles, under the American titles.  But if you want to change to the British titles, that's fine.  This won't be a problem for future novels in the series, as the bastards at Random House apparently aren't publishing any more Fandorin novels in the USA. Vidor 04:55, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  UK versus US titles 

message: Is this really of top importance among novels?  More important than The Great Gatsby?  john k 17:48, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: it's slightly over-enthusiastic, I tend to agree :) dab (ᛏ) 19:13, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Well, it marks the revival of literature in the Post-Soviet era. I could live with High as well, but several other entries were rated Top important with which Fandorin compared positively, imho. And in the High category, things are even worse, I think. Errabee 21:34, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Top importance? 

message: Very well written, well sourced and set out, images appear to be OK. 3 suggestions prehaps cite the Russian spelling, and you have to Italicise Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings, but I think that's not enough to warrant failing the GA or eveb holding it, i've gone and done it myself, good work everyone
†he Bread 07:06, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA Passing 

message: Does anyone know why Murder on the Leviathan was published as the second Fandorin bok in the UK, and The Turkish Gambit as the third?
:I certainly don't. But one can speculate that this is simply a marketing strategy. The Turkish Gambit is far more difficult to read, because western readers are not familiar with the background of the Russo-Turkish War of 1777-1778. Errabee 10:05, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  UK publication order 

message: Copied from my talk page:
:It's much improved since I last looked at it. Some comments:
:*It needs a copyedit - I didn't want to storm in there, but just ask if you want me to go through it
:*It is overlinked - the book titles only need linking once, not every time they are used
:*I'd move the table on the titles to the end, as it breaks the flow of the article where it is now
:*The section on the individual titles is somewhat stilted and listy - you can expand on the details slightly even if they have their own articles, and I'd also expand the date/location at the beginning of each to be a complete sentence rather than a fragment.
:*The awards section would be better rewritten as prose rather than presented as a small list
:*There are too many images used under a fair use rationale - this will be looked at very closely if you put it forward for FA - you'd be pushing it with four and there are nine currently.
:Hope this helps and congratulations on the GA. Yomanganitalk 21:53, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've removed some links, and moved the table to the bottom. Still working on other points. Errabee 08:55, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  More comments 

message: Amazon UK is listing the next English translation, due out in January '08, as "The State Counsellor".  I have therefore made a new page for the sixth Fandorin novel, under that title, and made a redirect for the old article, which was titled The Councillor of State. Vidor 00:40, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The Councillor of State/The State Counsellor

message: Speaking of titles, this novel has different titles depending on where you look--the Fandorin page lists it as "The Diamond Chariot" while the main article for the novel is titled "The Diamond Vehicle".  I do not speak Russian, but online translators are telling me that the Russian word "Колесница" translates out to "Chariot".  Is this true, and if it's true, shouldn't the title of the main article for the novel be "The Diamond Chariot"? Vidor 15:22, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: the correct translation of "Колесница" is "chariot". The corret translation of "Алмазная Колесница" is "Diamond Vehicle (see :ru:Ваджраяна). As long as no English translation is available, we'll have to stick with that, i.e. our best guess of the correct English translation of the title (or, of course, Алмазная Колесница itself); as soon as the title of the English translation is published, we'll move it to that, if different. dab (𒁳) 15:40, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Death of Achilles, in English translation, mentiones "The Diamond Chariot" case for which Fandorin was decorated. Stands to reason the last book should be named in that fashion. Tighina 21:12, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: it stands to reason I suppose. But I imagine it was a glitch of the translator, who was left to translate "Колесница" without being given any context. The translator of the "Алмазная Колесница" novel will, of course, recognize the Buddhist context, and (hopefully) choose the correct translation. --dab (𒁳) 10:46, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A possibility, of course. Then again, this may create confusion among Western readers, the great majority of whom have never heard of tantric Bhuddism. Your standard, run-of-the-mill editor will generally err on the side of continuity. Besides, I think that Bromfield will stick around for the ride anyway. He is pretty good. We'll see, I guess. Tighina 03:20, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: yes, this is not really a problem, is it? We'll just wait until the translation appears. It may also be translated several times, under different titles, we'll just report whatever happens. dab (𒁳) 09:33, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The Diamond Vehicle/Chariot

message: One more question--are there any Russian-speaking Fandorin fans who could give us Anglophones more of an idea of the various plots in "Jade Rosary Beads", and include such in the Fandorin article? Vidor 19:23, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Jade Rosary Beads

message: Two things.  First, this website appears to link to Russian texts of almost all Boris Akunin's novels, including all the Erast Fandorin novels except "Jade Rosary Beads".  This would appear to be the mother lode for Russian Fandorin readers.  Secondly, the Boris Akunin page lists the title of the most recent Erast Fandorin novel as "The Nephrite Rosary".  The Russian title is listed as Нефритовые четки, as it is in this article.  I know the Cyrillic alphabet well enough to make out that the first word is "Nephrite" or something close to it, and research tells me that Nephrite is one of two minerals called Jade.  The second word, четки, is coming out through a couple of different online translators as "are precise". "Jade are precise" makes no sense to me whatsoever.  Hopefully a Russian speaker can clarify.  Russian language websites and their English translations confirm that as the Russian title and translate "четки" as "clear", which would make the English title of the novel "Clear Nephrite" or "Clear Jade", which would make a little more sense.  God, I wish I spoke Russian. Vidor 21:37, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Akunin website, and "Jade Rosary Beads" title

message: There was a simply ridiculous statement:
In the Soviet Union, many novels were severely censored or prohibited from being published. Although detective novels were not forbidden, reading these novels was discouraged by the communist regime.
It was "supported" by this source that says completely different:
Furthermore, Akunin wisely opted for a genre that has enjoyed great popularity in both the Soviet Union and post-Soviet Russia. Soviet readers, just like their Western counterparts, have traditionally been eager consumers of detective fiction, both foreign and homegrown. Although the mystery, as a pop genre, was officially frowned upon during the Soviet period, collections of Western detective stories (English, American, French, Polish, Scandinavian etc.), as well as books by native mystery authors, such as the Vainer brothers or Iulian Semenov, have always been avidly coveted. In this light, the post-Soviet boom of indigenous detektiv, with Aleksandra Marinina, Daria Dontsova, Chingiz Abdullaev, Andrei Konstantinov and a host of others placing at the top of bestseller charts, is anything but surprising.
 
I made some rewording, but this needs to be changed more. Detective novels weren't "severely censored and banned" in USSR, they were highly popular and best-selling. Garret Beaumain 19:15, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Popularity of detectives in SU

message: It appears the name is Akunin's invention. But it might be mentioned that Danil Fondorin (Внеклассное чтение) mentions a branch of the family that is now (1795) simply called "Dorn" Дорн, and in Чайка, Комедия в двух действиях, there is a member of this branch, Евгений Сергеевич Дорн, who states that other branches of his family are known as Фондорнов and Фандорин. Now, I am surprised to find that there are indeed records of a "Dorn" surname in 17th century Russia: one Ivan Dorn together with Bogdan Lykov translated the Cosmography of Gerard Mercator in 1637. Unfortunately, this is too early to match Cornelius von Dorn, who supposedly arrived in Moscow only in the 1670s.
generations: 
:Theo von Dorn (12th c.)
:...
:"Tibo-Montezuma" (d. before 1558)
:...
:1. Cornelius von Dorn / Корнелиус фон Дорн / Корней Фондорнов / Фондорин (d. 1682)
:2. Никита Корнеевич Фондорин (b. 1680?)
:3. Иларион Никитич Фандорин
:4. Даниил Иларионович Фандорин
:5. Самсон Даниилович Фандорин (b. 1789)
:6. Исаакий Самсонович Фандорин
:7. Петр Исаакиевич Фандорин (d. 1866)
:8. Эраст Петрович Фандорин (1855-1919)
:9. Александр Эрастович Фандорин (1920-1994)
:10. Николай Александрович Фандорин / Nicholas Fandorin (b. ca. 1960)
I find that there is a historical Ruprecht I von Dorn (also Dürn) (1151? - 1199?), a Boppo I von Dorn (d. ca. 1276) and a Konrad I von Dorn (1205? - 1258?), but these von Dorns apparently died out with Mechthild von Dilsberg-Dorn in the 14th century . dab (𒁳) 10:42, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "fan" or "fon" in the beginning of a Russian surname is usually a vestige of German/Dutch "van" or "von" (e.g., Fonvizin). --Ghirla-трёп- 13:11, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: yes, the Fandorin surname is an excellent fiction of Akunin's, but I was trying to find out if it did not, after all, exist historically. I could not find any historical Fandorins, but at least a historical Dorn. But I don't know if "Ivan Dorn" was really a German "Hans Dorn", or if Dorn was in fact a Russian family name at some point. dab (𒁳) 13:30, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "Fandorin"

message: The short annotations to The Winter Queen, The Death of Achilles and The State Counsillor contain spoilers. Considering that there are full articles about these novels, shouldn't these annotations be re-written more discretely? I can do it myself if there are no objections.Tighina 16:51, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spoilers in this article 

message: According to Amazon UK, the next Boris Akunin novel, titled in Russian "Coronation, or the Last of the Romanovs", is being released in English with the title "The Coronation".  Thus I've moved the article page for that novel and edited the Boris Akunin template to reflect the new title, The Coronation (novel).  It seems "The Coronation" was already the title of some 400-year-old play that had an article.  Searching for "The Coronation" currently defaults to the English play.  If somebody knows how to fix that redirect and build a disambiguation page that contains links to both the novel and the play, please do so.  I don't know how. Vidor (talk) 04:40, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: "The Coronation"

message: I have been totally unable to find any English-language reviews of the book.  The fact that it wasn't published in the United States doesn't help, but I thought I'd find something in the UK.  If anybody could find such a link that would be awesome.  Vidor (talk) 06:01, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Reviews for "The State Counsellor"

message: The image :Image:Turkish Gambit movie poster.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here.  In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page.  Please check
:* That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
:* That this article is linked to from the image description page.
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --19:18, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Image copyright problem with Image:Turkish Gambit movie poster.jpg

message: I am reading in a couple of places that there will be no further Erast Fandorin translations into English after The Diamond Chariot.  Does anyone have more info? Vidor (talk) 17:48, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Upsetting news

message: # As per WP:RED, the redlinks are entirely valid in this article. They are not in navigational boxes, nor direct to a template, but are instead present in a wikitable, which makes them perfectly acceptable in this article.
# The categories are currently in alphabetical order: see your talk page, where an independent third party has confirmed that "Novel" sorts before "Novels". 
Please do not mindlessly revert these edits again and please do not post abusive messages on my talk page again. -  SchroCat (^ • @) 19:20, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Redlinks and categorisation 

message: A list of Erast Fandorin books in English translation is listed in the NOVEL section.  Anyone who jumps to the TRANSLATION section may entirely miss the info they are looking for.  Luckily, I slid down and bumped into it.  Is there some way to alert people to the other information? Zipzip50 (talk) 05:06, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Important translation info not in TRANSLATION section 

message: Imagine my delight when I did one of my random searches, the first in a long while, and found out that an English translation of All The World's a Stage has been announced for October 2017.  Guess we're skipping Jade Rosary Beads, but I'll take it.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:204:C002:60EC:89DE:3357:D06D:80FB (talk) 16:56, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  All The World's A Stage to be translated! 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060822093523/http://www.thecwa.co.uk/daggers/2003/gold.html to http://www.thecwa.co.uk/daggers/2003/gold.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060626020631/http://www.mysteryinkonline.com/2005/03/gumshoe_awards_.html to http://www.mysteryinkonline.com/2005/03/gumshoe_awards_.html
*Added  tag to http://www.russiaprofile.org/culture/article.wbp?article-id=E4B2C5F6-4B6A-4F30-B356-9220B7682174
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060615065913/http://www.fandorin.ru/fandorin/index.html to http://www.fandorin.ru/fandorin/index.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050816203438/http://english.mn.ru/english/issue.php?2005-9-27 to http://english.mn.ru/english/issue.php?2005-9-27
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 02:02, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The article does not make a good case that the character is notable. I suggest this is rewritten into an article about the Erast Fandorin series. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 01:32, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Erast Fandorin series]]