Talk:Bagramyan Battalion

message: In such conflicts as Georgian-Abkhaz war all parties engaged in attacks against civilians. See Georgian-Abkhaz Conflict for references. We don't call British, Nazi or USSR terrorists although they certainly attacked civilians during WW2.
Moreover this group is not in any of the terrorist group list of any significant country (US, UK, EU, Australia, Russia).  Alaexis 10:53, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Its in many terrorist group lists. 
 and also in the Human Rights Reports, calling that "battalion" as terrorist organization. Ldingley 18:06, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Which report? For which date? How is it called? Please give us source. Steelmate 19:04, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Just checked, user Ldingley is : "This user has been blocked indefinitely from editing Wikipedia"... So please discard his information as unreliable. Steelmate 19:06, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In any case, we can't use the "terrorist" label on Wiki simply because it's POV and it's a word to avoid. -- Aivazovsky (talk) 01:21, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  More than enough reliable sources are mentioned to label Bagramyan Battalion as terrorist unit.--ZviadPochkhua (talk) 21:39, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

text: This link says its in Russia. KazakhPol 08:23, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: According to that list 'Oklahoma Constitutional Militia' is also in Russia :). Some mistake, I presume since on the organisation's page on the same site it's written that it was based in Georgia. Alaexis 08:26, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point. KazakhPol 08:28, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Terrorists or no?

message: Folks, we all know that armenians didn't want to get involved into the conflict initially, but then when georgian army came and started killing, raping, robbing armenian villages, from the perspective of self-defence abkhazian armenians created this batallion. Please look for information about incident at Labra. And please put here into discussion board all the info you can get, so we can represent this on a Wikipedia page in an NPOV manner.Thanx. Steelmate 13:37, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No martyrology, please. Armenians fought on both sides. And those who supported Abkhaz, did so even before the outbreak of hostilities.--KoberTalk 13:40, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: They didn't support Abkhaz, they supported their homes from those who came on tanks and started robbing them instead of protecting, and calling themselfs Georgian Army, made up from people who went to Abkhazia to loot and steal along with other real patriots of Georgia. Any way , I don't support any war, including the war that georgian politians started in Abkhazia. Tbilisi armenians didn't fought for their homes as nobody endangered them, they had to fight as they were called upon by georgian government. Big difference. Steelmate 14:25, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Judging from your latest post, you have a very strange undestanding of NPOV. Smbat Sahakian, so brutally killed by Abkhaz or their hero Shamil Basayev, was not from Tbilisi. He was the leader of Abkhazia's Armenian community and member of the de jure government. Anyway, I'm not going to prove you anything and waste my time and energy in this unproductive discussion. --KoberTalk 15:19, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Steelmate, please consult Wikipedia:Reliable sources. Armeniapedia cannot be accepted as a reliable source because it is "an online encyclopedia about everything related to Armenia and Armenians that anyone can edit." By that logic, we can also use a Georgian version of Wikipedia or any similar project.--KoberTalk 17:08, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Kober, it says nothing against using other wiki projects. The Armeniapedia is valuable resource to everything related to Armenia. I would love to see something like that done by Georgians. Steelmate 17:10, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Armeniapedia is not a scholarly source or mainstream media outlet. Anyone can put anything there to say nothing about its Armenocentrist character. You will have to prove that it really is "valuable" enough to be used in what is supposed to be an encyclopedia. Here's another useful guidline for you:  WP:3RR. --KoberTalk 17:12, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Btw, we have a well-organized group of anti-Georgian users on Wikipedia. So, welcome to the club! In the meantime, I'm trying to bring your additions more in line with NPOV standards and please don't POV it again.--KoberTalk 17:31, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Btw, there is a big Anti-Armenian group in Wikipedia and in Georgia as well, welcome to the group, you must receive another barnstar for you truly scholarily Anti-Armenian work! Thanks for all valuable suggestion to make it more NPOV, it is my primary goal. Steelmate 17:37, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ha-ha... So now I'm also anti-Armenian? Can you please provide any example of my "anti-Armenian" scholarship? --KoberTalk 17:41, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Let's stop this baby talk, the material that you are representing has bias against armenians. This shouldn't be that way. The truth is in the middle, and only by representing both views we can see the reality. I am glad we have made a pretty good article that describes atrocities in that war. Let now the reader decide and judge. I am against any wars and any inhumane acts. So the more truely we describe the ugliness of the situation the more it will prevent wars in the future I think. Steelmate 17:48, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmmm... And I'm pretty much sure that the current version of the article reads more like a Gothic story than a decent encyclopedic entry. It was your choice, though.--KoberTalk 17:53, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It has now all the main points, we can arrange the stylistics and add more details later. By the way which article as a good example of description of military organization you can represent for consideration of stylistical rewrite? Steelmate 17:59, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Atrocities (Excesses) by Georgian Army leading to creation of Bagramyan Batallion

message: What is the reason for quote removal? Now this article has no quotes at all. Compare to how many quotes are in article on Ethnic_cleansing_of_Georgians_in_Abkhazia which this article links to. I believe those two articles need to be balanced. Steelmate (talk) 16:26, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Quotes removal

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The recent edits led me to look at the sources for the claim that BB is recognised as a terrorist group internationally and not just by Georgia. The source for it is this article published in a Georgian journal.
I was able to check The Routledge Handbook of Terrorism Research and it actually says something different: the BB is in  the World Directory of Extremist, Terrorist and Other Organisations Associated with Guerrilla Warfare, Political Violence, Protest, Organised Crime and Cyber-crime. In other words they do not say explicitly that it's a terrorist organisation. Note that this is the full list of entities from Georgia in the directory (p. 355):
* Abkhaz Separatists
* Bagramyan Battalion
* Forest Brothers (Georgia)
* Free Swaneti Organisation (Abkhazia)
* Gali Militia
* Kutajsij Clan (organised crime group)
* Tengiz Kitovani Partisans
* Mkhedrioni
* Salvation Corps
* South Ossetian Separatists
* White Legion
* Zviadists
It appears that this is simply a list of all groups engaging in violence since early 1990s in Georgia and I don't see much value in mentioning it in relevant articles. Considering that The Financial misrepresented what The Routledge Handbook of Terrorism Research said, I think we should also be super careful with other things sourced from it. Alaexis¿question? 08:27, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: And the battalion doesn't even have any political or social objectives. From what I understand, Georgians just use the word "terrorist" because it's a scare-word, with no regard for what it actually means. --Steverci (talk) 03:47, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  We can say that it was included in the TKB database of terrorist groups, but since it's not recognised as such by next to no one, it should not occupy a prominent place in the article per WP:UNDUE. Alaexis¿question? 06:16, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Terrorist organisation