Talk:Mikhail Gorbachev

message: The article formerly stated that Gorbachev was the youngest man to hold the position of Secretary of the Central Committee and cited p163 of Taubman's biography. I'm unsure whether this accurately reflects what the source says, but regardless it is plainly incorrect; Vyacheslav Molotov was 32 when he held the job after the secretariat was reformed in 1922 and several Stalin-era Secretaries were in their late 30s. --RaiderAspect (talk) 13:00, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Youngest Secretary of the Central Committee 

message: The article currently has a mix of American and British/Commonwealth English spelling. According to MOS:ARTCON, it should be consistent one way or another. Since MOS:TIES doesn't seem to apply, according to MOS:RETAIN we use the variety found in the first post-stub revision that introduced an identifiable variety, unless there is a consensus to do otherwise. It appears that American English was established by at least 2002, see: Special:Diff/398181 (traveled, democratization). Unless there is a reason to use something else, I will run the WP:EngvarB script to make that the consistent variety throughout the article. --IamNotU (talk) 00:28, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Variety of English consistency 

message: 2019
Meeting Gorbachev
https://play.google.com/store/movies/details/Meeting_Gorbachev?id=5jN_A_ADCG0.P
Please unblock Gedium account. I do not wish to be a sock puppet!
Your admins are idiots and do not follow procedure or protocol as stated by other admins. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.44.166.231 (talk) 14:36, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Update Works Section please 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
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You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 08:54, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion 

message: On 10 March 1985, Chernenko died.[153] Gromyko proposed Gorbachev as the next General Secretary; as a longstanding party member, Gromyko's recommendation carried great weight among the Central Committee.[154] Gorbachev expected much opposition to his nomination as General Secretary, but ultimately the rest of the Politburo supported him.[155] Shortly after Chernenko's death, the Politburo unanimously elected Gorbachev as his successor; they wanted him over another elderly leader.[156] 
Reading the book "Why Gorbachev Happened" by Robert Kaiser, a leading U.S expert on the Soviet Union (aka a Kremlinologist.) 
There are a couple parts here this book disputes.
It is true that Gorbachev nomination ultimately was by acclimation, but that was De Jure as by this time, all additions to the Politburo and all nominations to General Secretary were officially by acclamation.  De Facto, Gorbachev was opposed by Viktor Grishin.  It seems to have been a very close vote in the Politburo with Gorbachev making sure at least one and possibly two of Grishin's supporters were away and unable to attend the vote (Vladimir Shcherbitsky and possibly Dinmukhamed Kunayev.)   It also wasn't so much of older versus younger as opposed to reformers (Andropov's people on the Politburo) vs status quo (Brezhnev's people.)
In the end however, it was De Jure acclimation with Grishin officially nominating Gorbachev for the post. (Pages 80-82.)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.6.140.177 (talk) 06:34, 23 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  General Secretary of the CPSU 

message: he had a policy of "Glasnost"
--52.144.111.126 (talk) 02:52, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  hi 

message: A discussion is taking place to address the redirect :Vladimir Gorbachev. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 March 3#Vladimir Gorbachev until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  signed, Rosguill talk 17:06, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Vladimir Gorbachev" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: I suggest that we use an image from this video (which is licensed with a CC BY licence) for the infobox photo. --Love and Parting (talk) 01:44, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image 

message: Really? Not Gorbachov or Gorbachyov? Strange... --2A02:908:1460:CF80:44F8:C8C1:71F5:9BF7 (talk) 19:46, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree it's a mistake, the russian letter although looks like e it's pronounced as o and for instance Ronald Reagan always addressed him properly Mr Gorbachov not Gorbachev. V8 13:58, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gorbachev? 

message: The current portrait used is not the best to use for good ol' Gorby.
I propose we change it to one of these images.
File:Mikhail Gorbachev in the White House Library.jpg
File:RIAN archive 359290 Mikhail Gorbachev (1).jpg
Khalif Ali Husain the Third (talk) 09:32, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Portrait 

message: The "Personal life" section uses past tense for him: "Throughout his life, he tried", "he drank", "he was", etc. Using past tense that way implies he is dead, but he is not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:b011:1005:7a95:d1a2:275e:47d1:8bfb (talk) 06:33, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: It's definitely strange that this hasn't been fixed yet, I had to go back and check that he wasn't actually dead while reading it. ~~~~ Zinalova (talk) 06:42, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: this didnt age well 49.245.30.41 (talk) 13:42, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Past tense 

message: Dulxolixb (talk) 07:35, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Please say where you'd like the photo to go. Thanks. --Ferien (talk) 14:01, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 4 December 2021 

message: The term Marxist-Leninism is somewhat of a wastebasket taxon within marxism. It refers to a lot of positions that dont always line up well. For example both Stalin and Trotsky saw themselves as the inheretors of Lennin's legacy but drew radically different conclusions about it, to the point that a significant level of violence became associated with the schism, culminating ultimately in the assasination of Leon Trotsky. Further, in China , the maoist and post maoist tendencies within chinese political history also have tended to lay claim to the mantle of Marxist Leninism. This schism persists to this day, particularly between the "trots" and "tankies" of Trotskyism and Stalinism respectively, as well as a growing resurgence of interest mostly in US circles in Maoism. To be clear Marxism-Leninism is a legitimate term and I'm not quarreling with the fact its used here, but I think it would be prudent to affix terms to denote the "flavor" of marxist-leninism, like "The prevailing interpretation of Marxist-Leninism" etc just so we dont convey the interpretation that ONLY Stalin, Kruschev or Gorbachev's interpretation was the "correct" one. And to be clear its not a small matter, theres an entire corpus of literature analysing this stuff, as well as less academic literature on "Revisionist marxism" and other more polemical contributions to the discussion. Duckmonster (talk) 02:43, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Which "Marxist Leninism"? 

message: The "In the Arts" section, or, maybe an "In Popular Culture" section, might mention that "The Internet series" _Epic Rap Battles of History_ featured Gorbachev in the "Rasputin vs. Stalin" rap battle, played by Lloyd Ahlquist." 216.228.184.182 (talk) 02:32, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Epic Rap Battles of History 

message: There are rumours of Gorbachev's death on birdsite. Any RS? They should pop up quickly if the rumour is confirmed. Boud (talk) 20:29, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, the avalanche of WP:RS's is open. See below. Boud (talk) 20:51, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rumours of death 

message: https://ria.ru/20220830/gorbachev-1813287586.html CallMeHyphen (talk) 20:46, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reliable Soure for Death Update 

message: Gorbachev's date of birth, 2 March 1931, has six sources given in Wikidata (at least three are online), and four offline sources here, so that seems undisputed. Russian sources presumably write that Gorbachev died in his "92nd year", or write "92" in a Russian convention of age that rounds up. In English, 91 years and just under 6 months (30 Aug 2022 minus 2 March 1931) is summarised in integer years as an "age of 91", not an "age of 92". Thomson Reuters, a WP:RS, has been quite sloppy about this. This is not a direct problem for this article, since we let mediawiki software calculate age instead of doing the calculation that was too difficult for Reuters journalists to do. Boud (talk) 21:11, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sloppy translation/arithmetic/fact-checking by Reuters 

message: We achieved consensus for the lead photo a few months back, and people are replacing it for no reason. Please don’t remove it. If you want another photo to be in the lead, state your opinion on the talk page. Consensus can change. Fijipedia (talk) 00:37, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  White House photo being changed 

message: # Skyshifter talk 00:40, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Option 1

message: #The White House Library photo looks like a proper portrait while the other photo shows Gorbachev in a meeting of some sort. We should keep it. Fijipedia (talk) 11:52, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Option 2

message: :Today I added this picture. I have processed it, the colors and color correction look nice, unlike option 1, here Gorbachev looks more like himself. Roman Kubanskiy (talk) 11:24, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a better picture in general, but the lighting and the angle of Gorbachev's face hide the distinguishable birthmark on his head. Samuuurai (talk) 07:55, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: @User:Samuuurai What's wrong with that? Stephanie921 (talk) 08:01, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: It is an identifiable facial feature which is largely associated with his appearance. It would perhaps be more fitting to have this feature clearly visible as his main infobox photo. Samuuurai (talk) 08:03, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

text: I can also support this one. It also looks more "portrait-like" than number 1, for those concerned about that.  Madeline (part of me) 12:00, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

text: Also support the third option, per the two reasons stated above. Willsteve2000 (talk) 16:12, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

text: Oppose this option because of the uneven lighting on his face. Ovinus (talk) 05:58, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Option 3 

message: Please remove this sentence
 Later that month, Bush visited Moscow, where he and Gorbachev signed the START I treaty, a bilateral agreement on the reduction and limitation of strategic offensive arms, after ten years of negotiation.
and replace it with this one:
 Later that month, Bush visited Moscow, where he and Gorbachev concluded ten years of negotiations by signing the START I treaty, a bilateral agreement on the reduction and limitation of strategic offensive arms.
By moving up the ten years of negotiations, the sentence is reduced from five clauses to four — it's marginally longer, but simpler to understand. 123.51.107.94 (talk) 03:37, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks IP, because the month wasn't actually specified I tried something slightly different from what you wrote (replacing the beginning with "Bush visited Moscow in late July, when ...".  Ovinus (talk) 06:46, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 31 August 2022 

message: In this sentence:
 In June 2018, he welcomed the 2018 Russia–United States summit between Putin and U.S. President Donald Trump,
Please change "2018 Russia-United States summit" to "Russia-United States summit".  If a date isn't given for the summit, one would expect it to occur around the same time as his remarks, which are in June 2018. 123.51.107.94 (talk) 03:44, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree, I think the specificity is a good standard Stephanie921 (talk) 04:22, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I think this is a matter of opinion, so I've reworked it to "the Russia–United States summit in Helsinki". Ovinus (talk) 06:40, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair enough @User:Ovinus ty for telling me :) That's good wording Stephanie921 (talk) 06:43, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 31 August 2022 (2) 

message: I tried to put two more in the section, but 'Stephanie' thinks they are not valid. Who is she to decide? AMCKen (talk) 06:16, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: To me, they seem like rather trivial items.  He wasn't primarily a musician or film star; this isn't like putting such links on biographies of politicians such as Peter Garrett or Arnold Schwarzenegger.  And per WP:LINKFARM, we shouldn't have lots of trivial external links.  123.51.107.94 (talk) 06:35, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

text: They're not reliable sources. See WP:IMDB for one. Also, why did you put my name in quotemarks? Stephanie921 (talk) 06:38, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Stephanie is quite correct. Plus, it doesn't make sense to link to IMDb when we're writing about one of the defining figures of the 20th century. We have countless better sources. Ovinus (talk) 06:51, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: External Links

message: To change his death to the 14 august, because he died there
https://www.gorby.ru/presscenter/news/show_30344/
This is the source 85.83.200.22 (talk) 07:49, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe machine translation is failing me, but I can't find anything about him being dead there.  Madeline (part of me) 08:17, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Me neither @User:Maddy from Celeste. I don't speak Russian but my translation says both msgs date from over two weeks ago Stephanie921 (talk) 10:35, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  Not done: pending clarification.  Madeline (part of me) 12:21, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: @User:Maddy from Celeste What? :) I was just saying what u did Stephanie921 (talk) 16:19, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah I meant I marked the request as answered while we wait for info from the original requester.  Madeline (part of me) 17:34, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh okay, ty Madeline! Stephanie921 (talk) 17:42, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 31 August 2022 (3) 

message: Both the articles for Lenin and Stalin include their death in the lede of the article. Why not for Gorbachev? There even is a sub article for specifically his funeral, indicating that it is a major event. PhotographyEdits (talk) 19:21, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Because both Lenin and Stalin died while still in power? Gorbachev's death isn't anywhere near as consequential. His death could be mentioned briefly but the paragraph you added was overkill. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 19:34, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Boris Yeltsin also died after leaving office and that's also mentioned in the lede. I have added it back without naming the cemetery. PhotographyEdits (talk) 19:44, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Including death in lede 

message: Woon Sue (talk) 12:06, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: It is unclear as what you want to be done. Peaceray (talk) 13:55, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 25 August 2023 

message: There is a conflict about the infobox image again. Let's discuss this @4me689. I do quite like the BW image actually, would be fine with having that one as the main image. Otherwise, the previous speech picture would be good. PhotographyEdits (talk) 16:32, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: (i'm coming back just to respond to this), I thought we already had a consensus on the info box picture when Mikhail Gorbachev died, if there's ever to be a conflict again we should do an RFC on his info box picture, as for the info box picture I do like the black and white one better. 4me689 (talk) 21:16, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I also like the black and white better. But yeah I don't feel motivated to start an entire RfC again PhotographyEdits (talk) 13:12, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

text: the previous photo had enough consensus. I don't think it is necessary to open another discussion or make changes. _-_Alsor (talk) 16:13, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: @Alsoriano97 My point is that the discussion was never about the image that is currently used. But I like the image so I don't mind personally, just wanted to make sure that it isn't controversial then. PhotographyEdits (talk) 08:50, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

text: As someone who took part in the initial discussion about the infobox photo, I prefer the newly-added photo to the previous one and support its usage as long as there is no opposition to it being in black-and-white. The angle is better, his birthmark is more easily visible, and there is nothing occurring in the background unlike in the previous photo. Aria1561 (talk) 05:00, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree. Then let's not make a fuss about this then, until there is someone from the original discussion who opposes this picture. I suspect there would be broad consensus for this image, it just was not available at the time of the previous discussion. PhotographyEdits (talk) 08:48, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, frankly, I don't like it. First, I don't understand why a photo from 1991 has to be in black and white; it would make sense if it was a personality from the 20's or 40's, for example. Secondly, because he doesn't wear glasses, something that in a certain way also identified him (although sometimes he didn't wear them). And, thirdly, because, IMO, a photo of a historical political leader giving a speech or in a political space is the best way to represent them. Besides, I don't see the need to have to change it when you have already chosen what it would be.  _-_Alsor (talk) 10:33, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair enough. I can see a reason to boldly change it when a new good picture comes to Commons, but it's also fine to revert that back to the previous consensus. People can open a new discussion to change the consensus, I'll leave it here for now. PhotographyEdits (talk) 14:34, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: maybe it's the best we do a RFC, what do you guys think, the last time it was not a RFC. 4me689 (talk) 15:25, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture in infobox 

message: The Template:Mikhail Gorbachev series sidebar was removed. I think it should belong in this article. Can we put it back? PhotographyEdits (talk) 14:25, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: It's causing a lot of squishing over on the right hand side of the article and serves little useful purpose. Was there any consensus for its original addition (which I believe occurred fairly recently, after this article gained its GA rating)? Midnightblueowl (talk) 15:11, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: It was added after it became GA, yes. But the article has been a GA with the template longer than it was without. The article because GA in 2020 and I originally created this template in 2021. I would suggest putting it back in the article. Would you say that such a template needs to be removed from Barack Obama? PhotographyEdits (talk) 07:39, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of sidebar 

message: Exactly the title. There’s not a single citation except for a little thing that says [f] in the main body text of the page all the way from the start up until Early Life & Education. For example, it claims that he’s often derided in Russia, which may or may not be true, but there’s no citation for this claim, which makes it look a lot like hearsay instead of actual fact. 166.182.80.216 (talk) 20:52, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: You are correct that there are no citations, this is because the first part of the article is supposed to be a summary of the later parts, which *are* supported by citations. Because it's a summary, the information is a duplicate of information that is cited. PhotographyEdits (talk) 11:05, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why are there no citations in the main body of the article? 

message: The "dubious" tag was added on 2 January 2024 by User:AverageWikiEditingEnjoyer, who wrote this edit summary:
"I thought numerous claims state he was closer to reformist marxism, market socialism, or an ideology closer to the ideology of "Eurocommunism" instead of "social democracy", which he only affiliated with much later on".
Since the editor acknowledges that Gorbachev did affiliate with social democracy, I'm not sure that the dubious tag is really warranted; but while it's there it should link to the editor's objection on the talk page. Richard75 (talk) 13:23, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Let's remove the tag. Midnightblueowl (talk) 10:20, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dubious