Talk:Battle of San Juan Hill

message: I was learning about it and everything is true. Thanx.173.75.255.216 (talk) 22:15, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: you are so stupid because you are reading this

message: The article misleadingly indicates that 15,000 American troops were used in the attack, when only 6,500 were available, with the rest being down, in reserve, or part of Lawton's flank to the north. Secondly, the casualties for the Spanish are too low. Over two hundred Spanish troops were killed, with at least as many wounded. The American casualties may also be higher.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.235.181.102 (talk • contribs) 
:So please fix it, with sources --AW (talk) 21:23, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article needs some editing 

message: I am not sure if this article cites all its sources
There are large sections without a source...
~AQ 01:35, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources

message: The caption on the image at the top of the article would seem to imply that the Rough Riders got into trouble during the battle and had to be rescued by the 24th and 25th Colored Infantry regiments. But neither this article nor the Rough Riders article actually says anything about such a rescue. Surely such a rescue is worthy of note, isn't it? Anyone have a good source describing the role of the "colored" troops at San Juan Hill? 65.213.77.129 (talk) 18:28, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: African-American troops

message: At the time of the attack on the San Juan Heights, Roosevelt was the commander of the unit.  Please see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Roosevelt#War_in_Cuba
"Originally Roosevelt held the rank of Lieutenant Colonel and served under Colonel Wood. In Roosevelt's own account, The Rough Riders, "after General Young was struck down with the fever, and Wood took charge of the brigade. This left me in command of the regiment ..."  Jrcrin001 (talk) 19:34, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Commander of the Rough Riders  

message: A company from the signal corps ascended in a hot air balloon to reconnoiter the hills. The balloon made for a good target for the Spaniards, and it was another path leading up the slope. Hawkins' brigade had already passed by the new found route and Kent ordered forward the brigade under Colonel Charles A. Wikoff. It was 12 p.m. by the time Wikoff began heading down the trail, and a half an hour later he emerged from the woods and was struck by a bullet.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jrfsmf (talk • contribs) 08:03, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Second sentence regarding the hot-air balloon needs work

message: Please discuss changes in the lead here.  Thank you. Jrcrin001 (talk) 23:12, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead parargraph 

message: This reads like a US Army Battle report. It's clearly a NOPV article about the "always right" USA beating the bad guys... in the most infamous war the USA has ever fought and one of the two where the USA was clearly the bad guy. --84.126.10.233 (talk) 09:55, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: "This reads like a US Army Battle Report." You're surprised? The American military and its' Cuban allies were the ones who possessed the field at the end of the battle, meaning that they were the ones in a position to give an accurate count of the battlefield after the shooting stopped. As thus, their reports and those of other eyewitnesses (like the Swedish military source cited) are- for whatever their sins or not- probably our greatest and most reliable Primary Sources on the battle or at least its' aftereffects. So the idea that Wikipedia would draw considerably from such sources should be neither controversial nor surprising as you would note if you paid attention to Wikipedia's editing and source policies. The fact that you insist that this is "the most infamous war the USA has ever fought" and "one of the two where (it) was clearly the bad guy" (when in fact neither of the sort are true, especially given the infamy the Spanish occupation had by this point in time and the rancour over the Indian Wars and Indochinese ones) merely underlies the problem. You are acting out of bias first and foremost, not an actual reasoned, understanding alternative opinion with something to bring to the table. So you will forgive us if we should be rightfully leery of what you do and say. 75.36.166.243 (talk) 19:05, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

text: Wonderful. Do you have any actual sources for any of this, like claiming it is based on "dubious sources of the imperialist time"? Especially ones that would reach as far as the extremely well documented casualty reports the US military put out when *they and their allies possessed the field of both battle and the campaign* and which are generally regarded as far more supported and reliable than Spanish military reporting of the era? No? How convenient. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and sources, and until you can provide them you should restrain yourself. 75.36.166.243 (talk) 19:05, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wiki USA 

message: This article is nothing but a US side vision and it reads as an US Army report, reflecting the Spanish troops as nothing but the enemy. This is the Wikipedia in English, not the Wikipedia of the United States. It should reflect both sides of the conflict.
--81.35.89.170 (talk) 21:12, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: It appears that 81.35.89.170 (talk) is a sockpuppet. POV tag placed has been removed. The above comments are left. While the article does need more documentation from the Spanish side to make it a better article, it presents what was reported from the sources given. I am aware of less than sterling actions and behavior conducted by the Americans in 1898 and shortly there after. Example: See the book Imperial Cruise. Jrcrin001 (talk) 07:34, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  IMHO POV are fit. The narrative of this article is all from the US Army Point of View, so it is not neutral at all. Made up names for US Public comsumption like "Hell's Pocket" or "Kettle Hill" (there are no such places in Cuba)and the constant use of calificatives and narratives that could not survive a proper neutral point of view article are evident that this is a Yellow Article, just like the made up articles in 1898. Is becouse that that I'm reinstating the POV tag until the article is rewritten using a Neutral POV. Also, I'm tagging all the inconsistencis, weasel words and narratives. --84.126.70.150 (talk) 16:28, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  "IMHO POV are fit". Your POV if not a reliable source or a justification, and nobody in their right mind should care about anybody's POV in and of itself when evaluating the merits of a case. This is especially the truth when your POV is founded on biased, conspiracy theory logic that claims "Kettle Hill" and "Hell's Pocket" do not exist in Cuba while *blatantly ignoring* the long, tried, and true habit of soldiers (regardless of origin) for "nicknaming" locations and objectives, and of official military doctrine that involves spitting out numbers like "Hill 112" or what have you. Case in point, the Hornet's Nest of the [Battle of Shiloh] or Sugar Loaf Mountain on the [Battle of Okinawa]. The sheer fact that you are so thoroughly uneducated about such a simple truth of military history and your overt (and downright conspiratorial) biases about that origin makes it clear that even if this article is in need of rewritting using a neutral POV, you are *Not Fit To Be The One To Do It.* 75.36.166.243 (talk) 19:05, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: POV

message: Also everything there is unreferenced. --Niemti (talk) 02:51, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  So, Mr.AllSourcesMustBeUsed, you clearly do not know jack all about Wikipedia's policies or common sense. Do you also believe "All sources must be used" when it comes to coverage of the Holocaust, including Nazi apologists who believe there was no such thing? There's a reason why this Wiki vets for reliable sources. I agree that sources other than American ones- including Spanish- should be taken into account just as well, but that includes properly vetting them. Which you are apparently not doing so, because you seem to have an axe to grind rather than a point to illuminate. 75.36.166.243 (talk) 19:05, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

text: It is not Wikipedia's job to chronicle "the bravery of the overwhelmed defenders" or "the bravery of the attackers charging into a killing field." It is Wikipedia's job to chronicle the history and sources as we can tell. So if you have a source that can do what you propose and do it in accordance with Wiki's policies on sources and intent, put it in. Don't try to mutilate the entire article. 75.36.166.243 (talk) 19:05, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dubious figures in the infobox (casualties) 

message: Two photos of the Rough Riders are shown side by side in the article: one with a wider angle showing more soldiers and Roosevelt without a hat, the other showing fewer soldiers and Roosevelt with a hat. The caption gives an original title of "Colonel Roosevelt and his Rough Riders at the top of the hill which they captured, Battle of San Juan" for the first photo, and refers to the second as being cropped to remove other regiments. However, the title given is the title of the second photo fide the Library of Congress http://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/96521936/ , and it is not cropped from the original at the Library of Congress. Although the source of the first photo is said to be the Library of Congress, I cannot find it in their online digital catalog. MayerG (talk) 04:40, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photos of Rough Riders