Talk:The Marriage of Figaro (play)

message: « Parce que vous êtes un grand Seigneur, vous vous croyez un grand génie !... Noblesse, fortune, un rang, des places : tout cela rend si fier ! Qu'avez-vous fait pour tant de biens ! Vous vous êtes donné la peine de naître, et rien de plus... »
* Anyone who feels that they can improve on my translation of the above quote please to do so, especially des places. --BadSeed 20:05, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably "later productions".  I don't think we need a list. —JerryFriedman  (Talk) 04:44, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Note

message: Well, that's what it looks like to me.  I got my reading of "me fussé-je" from "Se suicider serait préférable à faire du théâtre  « me fussé-je mis une pierre au cou »" . —JerryFriedman  (Talk) 04:43, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation revisions 

message: The article mentions that, according to the preface, the Mariage was written on request of Louis François Joseph, Prince of Conti. Actually, the preface to the play says "the late Prince de Conti" (feu M. le prince de Conti). As LFJ de Conti (1734-1818) was still alive in 1778, "the late Prince de Conti" must refer to the father, Louis François, Prince of Conti, who died in 1776.
This is not unimportant, as it casts an interesting light on the source of inspiration of the play. Young Conti (styled Comte de la Marche during the life of his father) and old Conti did not get along. Old Conti was a political enemy of the king (Louis XV and XVI), whilst young Conti had sided with the king (L XV) during a conflict involving the Parliament. The old Conti said Je le savais bien mauvais fils, mauvais mari, mauvais ami; mais je ne le savais pas mauvais Français. and closed his door forever to his son.
The funny plot of the play (the adulterous Count making love to his own wife, disguised as the maid) is very likely derived from an anecdote about young Conti (and old Conti may have inspired Beaumarchais to include it in the play). In Paris galant au dix-huitième siècle; vie privée du prince de Conty, Louis-François de Bourbon (1717-1776) by Gaston Capon and Robert Yve-Plessis (1907, text here) we read the anecdote:
La Marche avoit donné parole à une femme galante de se rendre chez elle dans la nuit. C'étoit l'épouse d'un de ses gentilshommes. On étoit convenu du fait, de l'heure. Tout étoit bien arrangé. La dame qui n'aimoit point La Marche usa d'un stratagème qui lui fut très avantageux et qui fit rire toute la Cour. Elle avoit reçu cinq cents louis pour arrhes. Elle en reçut autant de la Princesse qu'elle avertit de la proposition, de la convention même entre elle et le Prince. La Princesse, charmée d'une si belle occasion d'avoir les faveurs de son mari, ne manqua pas de la saisir. Elle alla se coucher dans le lit de la femme du gentilhomme, et y attendit complaisamment son mari qui ne manqua pas de venir sans lumières se mettre à côté de sa femme sans se douter de la ruse. La Princesse eut l'attention de ne point parler, de faire la dormeuse. Son mari, ainsi trompé, sacrifia aux plaisirs de l'amour et de l'hyménée.
Riyadi (talk) 09:18, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prince of Conti 

message: Many articles just repeat earlier articles. So this article contains the inevitable It is considered an early indication of the French Revolution in its denouncement of the privileges of the nobility and  play was at first banned [..] because of its satire of the aristocracy.
Is this true, and are there historians who have given thought to these statements? Even those who actually read the play can hardly find any true criticism that is specifically directed to aristocracy.
* the Droit de seigneur that Count Almaviva has abolished and now wants to restore never existed, and that must have been quite clear for the XVIIIth century audience.
* corrupt justice administered by noblemen was equally corrupt when administered by non-nobles; that justice is indulgente aux grands, dure aux petits, was known, and already written by La Fontaine (Selon que vous serez puissant ou misérable, les jugements de cour vous rendront blanc ou noir.)? Nothing new for the XVIIIth century (nor for the centuries after the Revolution).
* that the Count desires an amorous adventure with his subordinate is a situation that also existed in non-noble households, on farms, in factories, wherever women depend on men for their sustainment. 
* some of Figaro's lines are critical of his master, but that was part of comedy in that time. Molière's plays are full of insubordinate valets making fun of their masters, and I guess the public would have expected such phrases.
* on nobility: Parce que vous êtes un grand seigneur, vous vous croyez un grand génie!...Noblesse, fortune, rang, des places, tout cela rend si fier! Qu'avez-vous fait pour tant de biens? Vous vous êtes donné la peine de naître, et rien de plus. - ok, this goes further than Molière, but is that the thing that could not be said in public? Isn't that true for other inherited fortune than nobility? Much worse was said and written in those times.
So this is a revolutionary play? There is almost no information in the Internet about the true/official reasons for the censorship. I read 'decency' somewhere, and Robert Darnton suggests it has to do with the sexual immorality of the play.
Riyadi (talk) 22:04, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The TP is not a place for discussion of the subject or original research - if you have questions concerning the validity of the historian's views in the Sources, bring another Reliable Source that disputes their findings. Personal opinions are worse than useless here.50.111.24.158 (talk) 04:58, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Marriage of Figaro and the French Revolution