Talk:Piri Reis

message: His name easily proves he's a Muslim.
"Hadji" refers to a person who has performed the Hajj pilgrimage.
"Ahmed," is one of the names of the holy Prophet Muhammad (SAW/Peace be upon him).
"Muhiddin" is a common Muslim name (with particular emphasis on the "iddin" or "uddin" which is used by Muslims exclusively. Many famous Muslims have "Iddin" or "Uddin" in their name, such as Jalaluddin Rumi (the poet) and Salahuddin Ayyubi (the name who defeated the Crusaders) and many, many more.   — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.147.143.247 (talk) 07:48, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: If it's so easily proven, please supply some reliable sources to confirm this.  Removed until such time, thanks.  Chaheel Riens (talk) 08:05, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Piri Reis was a Muslim, NOT a Christian or a Jew 

message: On Hapgood's page it describes him as an academian, does anyone have any issue with me changing it that that here?Halbared (talk) 17:06, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: "academian" doesn't have much meaning, but is sometimes used to disguise pseudo-scholarship. not sure it's a good idea. kwami (talk) 17:32, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Hapgood

message: According to a TV program I saw:
* the map displays the Andes before their discovery.
* The island of Marajo in the mouth of Amazon river doesn't appear. An old map?
* Some text says that Columbus discovered the land in the year x Anno Hegira. That would be 148x.
-- Error 00:30, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Have you any Grey Poupon, or perhaps Aspergers?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.171.176.122 (talk) 07:23, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Occult

message: In case you aren't aware, there is a competing entry of sorts overlapping with this one at Piri Reis Map. Ideally, there should be discrete entries for Piri Reis the person and the Piri Reis map. My suggestion is that either 1) this page only include discussion of Piri Reis himself and not the map, or 2) there be only one page, entitled Piri Reis Map, that discusses both the person and the map. Comments? --Varenius 21:45, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The Piri Reis map article is about a single map.  This article describes some of his other work.  -- SEWilco (talk) 17:31, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Competing Wikipedia Entry

message: Why are you telling that the map isn't the best of his time and only be made so good by satelite photo's. Isnt it to hard that A TURK better was in another rhing again than your kind. I now it's hard to accept but he found america before you and bring it on map. :)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.41.224.33 (talk) 21:28, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Read more of the linked articles.  Reis' maps were based upon other maps, including ones from Spain and Portugal involving someone named Columbo/Columbus.  -- SEWilco (talk) 17:31, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Found america before you 

message: At 90?  Just incredible...  never say no to the Sultan I guess, and he should have known better!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.130.66.196 (talk) 22:15, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Dont talk without knowing anything. Because he left his navy during a war with Portugals.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.179.207.210 (talk) 00:29, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Beheaded? 

message: Piri Reis was not a Christian. He is from the same family as the famous Kemal Reis, who was also his uncle.
Kemal Reis is from a family of central Anatolia, Karaman. 
Kemal Reis' family was Turkish Muslim. 
Piri Reis father name is Hadji Mehmed and that is not a Christian name either.
There is no source at all that he was a Christian and later converted to Islam.
The source that is given:  [Feudal society and its culture, Viktor Rutenburg, Progress Publishers, 1988, , p.176] is unreliable and the only source who claims that.
So I am deleting this because it is  propoganda that tries to claim every famous Turk as a Christian or Greek by origin.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by DragonTiger23 (talk • contribs) 17:33, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: No, there is source, the one you keep removing and then crying "there is no source" and "stop being racist". Racist is the person who insist in racially clean nations, especially his. And both four authors of the source are serious scientists with many studies in their field and no one is greek as to accuse them of being "racists". Is not to you to decide what source is or isn't "reliable".--79.166.157.163 (talk) 07:21, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: it appears you aren't well versed in this subject, so you keep adding dubious sources. I let it stay as it is since you are a fellow christian. 80.186.117.131 (talk) 11:47, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I am not.--79.166.157.163 (talk) 18:13, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Piri Reis was not a Christian 

message: It does not matter to me if he was converted christian or greek, what matters me to me is the REALITY.
You ( 79.166.157.163 )  claim him  to be christian origin and possibly greek because of ONE (1) source:
But I can explain why that source is unreliable, please read this.
*1- The most reliable source is this:
On his own map, (the famous of map of America in 1513), Piri Reis wrote this: This map was drawn by Piri Ibn Haji Mehmed, known as the nephew of Kemal Reis, in Gallipoli, in the month of muharrem of the year 919.
This is important: He writes his own name, his fathers name and that he was the nephew of Kemal Reis
*2- In the Ottoman Empire, people who converted to Islam were called "son/daughter of Abdullah" That means in Arabic:
Servant of Allah, almost never the christian or ethnic origin name of the father was written and instead Abdullah was used.
Piri Reis writes his fathers name as Ibn Haji Mehmed that means: son of Haji Mehmed.( Not son of Abdullah, which he would probably used, if his father was a Christian)
Hajji is a muslim title given to people who have made the pilgrimage to Mecca 
and Mehmed is a version of Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, this is clearly 100% a muslim name so his father was a muslim who had made the pilgrimage to Mecca. (And the chance that the son of a Muslim, was a Christian in that time, was 0%)
* He also writes that he is the nephew of Kemal Reis. So his father was a brother of Kemal Reis. Who is Kemal Reis??
Kemal Reis was born in Gallipoli on the Aegean coast of Turkey around 1451. His full name was Ahmed Kemaleddin and his father was a Turk named Ali from the city of Karaman in central Anatolia. He became known in Europe, particularly in Italy and Spain, with names like Camali and Camalicchio.
So his father was a Muslim Turk and his uncle was a Muslim Turk.
* You are the only one in the entire Internet claiming he was from Christian or Greek origin.
 
*Your claim  is 100% not reliable, I explained it.
How can he be of Christian origin?
When he himself writes that his father is a muslim who made the pilgrimage to Mecca, his uncle is a famous muslim pirate and he himself is muslim.
After all this information. Dont you understand how ridiculous it is to claim: he was by origin christian, possibly Greek?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by DragonTiger23 (talk • contribs) 20:09, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Please do not personalize the issue. It's not something between me and you. I am not "claiming" something, and unlike you, I have not a personal opinion about. I don't want to be dragged into an OR (original research) conflict here because this is not allowed in WP and because I really don't have the time. What I did is to participate in editing an article by referencing a sentence from a book that happens to be in front of me. I don't know how many other books have been written about him until know, and which one is the "best", but I can assure you that the authors are very serious and not a kind of nationalists or racists etc. The things you say seem OK with me, but I am not in a position to confirm them (as I am not in a position to deny them). I just don't know, and is not my business to know. That's why I am turning to the specialists about it which is also the standard procedure here. From your somewhat annoyed answer I understand you must be Turk, if so I want to ensure you that I don't have the slightest anti-Turkish sentiment and from what I have seen the Turk editors are among the most logical and low tone editors I have "met" in WP. So please don't make aggressive characterizations ("ridiculous" etc.) against me since I am not quoting myself, only a by definition neutral source, being written by a group of scientists who have written many other studies and from what I have seen until now (and I believe I am not wrong), nobody had called their work ridiculous or racist.--79.166.157.163 (talk) 22:33, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Explaining why Piri Reis was not by origin Christian or Greek. 

message: I found that 9 out of 10 are actually saying nothing about his origin except that he was nephew of Kemal Reis and a Turkish Admiral which is not disputed by anyone. In detail:
*"...born at the naval base of Gelibolu(later known to "Westerners" as Gallipoli during the First World War) as a nephew of Kemal Reis, the most famous Turkish admiral and privateer or "corsair" of the period. He seems to have joined his uncle's ship at the age of 11 or 12...: say born in Gallipoli (in the European part of Turkey), nothing about his origin.
*"...He was born at the town of Karaman, near Konya, Turkey. The exact date of his birth is unknown. In his early youth he joined his uncle Kemal Reis...: say born in Karaman of the Asian Anatolia, the same
*"...Piri Re'is, the nephew of a well-known Turkish mariner, learned seafaring and navigation from his uncle while both were serving in the Ottoman navy..." the same
*"...This map was drawn by Piri Ibn Haji Mehmed, known as the nephew of Kemal Reis, in Gallipoli, in the month of muharrem of the year 919..." the same
*"...the Turkish cartographer Piri Reis..."
*"...was drawn up in 1513 Turkish admiral, Piri Ibn Haji Mehmed..."
*"...by a famed 16th century Turkish admiral and mapmaker, Piri Re'is..."
*"...Piri Reis, the outstanding Turkish cartographer of the sixteenth century, won international recognition for his geographical book on the Mediterranean Sea..."
*"...The so-called Piri Re'is map-named after the famous Turkish admiral who created it in 1513..."
The only relevant to his origin reference is that of Stefano Carboni, page 311 ("...Turk originally from the Anatolian province of Karaman, and we may assume the same origin for Had Mehmed...") although the author is careful saying that this is an assumption will be included in the text together with another two references saying that he was by origin 1.Greek and 2.Jew
--79.166.157.163 (talk) 02:54, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: DragonTiger's refs about Piri's origin

message: An image used in this article, , has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests December 2011 
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thread_title: File:Piri-reis-7.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: I removed this map as original research. The image has no sources, and it contradicts at least one reliable source. The map only extends 5 degrees south of the equator, according to "Report No. 83-205 SPR The UFO Enigma, Marcia S. Smith, 20 June 1983, Congressional Research Service, Appendix B quoting "Some trust in chariots : sixteen views on Erich von Däniken's Chariots of the gods", editors Thiering, Barry and Edgar Castle, West books, 1972.
:File:Piri_Reis_map_interpretation_RG.jpg is another unsourced interpretation. --Enric Naval (talk) 16:15, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: See the Ptolemaic maps of Britain with a 90° turn at the Scottish border but otherwise fairly accurate features. Just from the provided image, it looks like the exact same situation: the coastlines do roughly match except for the bend created by a mix-up in someone's chain of connections of long/lat readings from a single source. That said, yeah, sure something so nonobvious should be explained and cited. — LlywelynII 11:15, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  original research in map 

message: I'm finding a number of sources which say his name was "Muhiddin Piri" . Hadji is a title, I don't know about the Ahmed. Our current source is a fringe author. Doug Weller (talk) 19:27, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Real name 

message: I have removed the following passage from the section "In popular culture":
:"These video games mention Piri Reis because of the large number of books and tv shows which draw on Charles Hapgood's Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings, a book which claims that advanced civilizations existed on Earth during the Ice Age. These claims are now refuted."
Regardless of Hapgood's extremely dubious scientific credibility, this is baseless speculation - the games in question make no reference to Hapgood or his book.
:Remember to sign your posts. — LlywelynII 11:11, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Charles Hapgood 

message: the book at this point. There's enough and it deserves it, not least because Wikicommons has an entire manuscript that should get more love. This article itself is becoming unbalanced with the length of the treatment versus the namespace. Note, however, that other articles currently spell/misspell it and translate/mistranslate it in several different ways: Kitab-ı Bahriye, Kitab-i Bahriye, and Kitab-i-Bahriye. They should be standardized when the article is created. — LlywelynII 11:11, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Split off

message: This really belongs at a new article on the book itself 
* .  
but may also have points on Piri Reis himself. — LlywelynII 11:11, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources for future article expansion