Talk:Kindertransport

message: have you seen this about the new statue in vienna ..I think the photos are also free use, or as it says they are used with the permission of the owher , it would be possible to also write a mail and get permission , any comments?  []. (Off2riorob (talk) 13:56, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fur Das Kind. 

message: "In Germany, a network of organisers was established, and these volunteers worked around the clock to make priority lists of those most imperiled: teenagers who were in concentration camps or in danger of arrest..."
How did they get the kids out of the concentration camps? Tad Lincoln (talk) 07:08, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Teenagers in concentration camps 

message: Unless the kinder were predominantly older children I would not have expected "many" it erms of proportion to have become old enough for service during the war, and when they did so they would no long be children.  The old wording did make me pause so I hope this makes things clearer. Hardicanute (talk) 14:46, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The best I can gather from your proposed wording is that it says the same thing. It is, however, unnecessarily complex, and reading it a few times I'm still not entirely sure what you intend to say. I see no reason that clarification is necessary in this instance, and any change really should be backed up by reliable sources. Do you have any sources for your assertion that most "were too young to serve"? Also, you don't need to type your name at the end of your signature. The four tildes (~~~~) do that for you automatically.   — Jess· Δ♥ 18:00, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

text: Do you have a source for anything here?  I was confused the first time I read it, in the context of 10,000 many sounds like at least 3,000. So I was just applying common sense to the information in the article.  There are some more precise figures further down the article. Hardicanute (talk) 21:26, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The entire article does need more sources. If you can provide those, please do. Again, there's no reason to add specificity unless we have sources that give us justification to. However, my primary reason for reverting, as I explained above, is that your wording doesn't add new content and makes the section unnecessarily complex and hard to parse. If you can provide sources, we can quote directly from those sources, and that won't be an issue. BTW, please indent your replies on talk pages by placing a colon (:) before your comment. I placed 2 colons (::) for my reply to you, and yours should in turn have 3 (:::), etc. This makes the conversation much easier to follow. Thanks.   — Jess· Δ♥ 00:47, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't understand what you mean by 'add specificity' all words have specific meanings.  I agree that previous wording was not smooth but I had time to reflect on this one. Hardicanute (talk) 01:08, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Is your addition based on sources, or is it speculation? Based on the above, it seems your simply speculating. We can't do that, per WP:OR, among other policies, and on that basis I've reverted. If you do have sources, please discuss them here before reintroducing them. Edit warring is disruptive behavior. The next step after proposing content, per WP:BRD, is to discuss it on the talk page and await consensus.   — Jess· Δ♥ 08:04, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Clarification re war service

message: I didn't edit war, I put in a new amendment taking account of your comments.  If you revert that without discussing then it will be you who are edit warring, not me and the amount of times you have been around the block compared to me will not be relevant Hardicanute (talk) 09:15, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  accusation of edit-warring 

message: This seems very unlikely and they certainly would not have finished up at Liverpool Street. Unless a source is provided, I propose striking out Southampton. Channelwatcher (talk) 15:54, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The article states quite clearly that the ship Europa left from Bremen (not Hook of Holland) and disembarked kinder in Southampton. That would be perfectly normal since Europa was a transatlantic liner that normally departed from Bremen and normally called at Southampton and other ports en route westabout. The article did not claim either that these kinder arrived at Liverpool Street Station. More likely they would entrain at Southampton for Waterloo Station. BTW my home is less than ½ mile from Ocean Dock, Southampton, where Europa would have berthed. So I have some expertise in these matters. The harbourmaster's logbooks may still survive. George.Hutchinson (talk) 01:46, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: It looks as though changes were made between my comment and yours, maybe as a result of my comment. It was 18 months ago, but as far as I recall it gave the route as H of H -- Southampton -- Liverpool Street, which was not possible. If that had been the route it would have been Harwich.) I have no issue with your points, which appear to clarify things. Thanks. Channelwatcher (talk) 09:30, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hook of Holland to... Southampton?? 

message: In the UK a number of members of Habonim, a Jewish youth movement inclined to socialism and Zionism, were instrumental in running the country hostels of South West England, where some of the Kindertransport children were placed. These members of Habonim were held back from going to live on kibbutz by the effects of the Second World War. 
These hostels were turned into centers for study of secular and Jewish subjects as well as temporary homes for the children. About 150 of the evacuated English children including a few of the kindertransport children Macrocompassion (talk) 14:37, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you suggesting these went to Southampton? Evidence? The normal route to SW England would be H of H to Liverpool Street and onward from Paddington. What is absolutely certain is no trains go or went from S'Hampton to Liverpool Street.Channelwatcher (talk) 18:27, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Habonim Hostels and Kindertransport 

message: This is an interesting resource, but it has several problems:
# It's a primary source.
# I can't find any indication (only a quick search so far) that the passengers are part of the Kindertransport, nor even that they are Jewish.
# If we decide to use this source (hopefully in conjunction with a reliable secondary source), we should give the specific URLs, not simply <http://www.passengerlists.de>.
We really need a reliable secondary source saying some of the Kindertransport children went via ship from Bremen.
The recent edit means that the relevant paragraph reads very badly, and needs re-writing. However we can't really use this info until the problems above are addressed.
(apologies for my little blunder - I clicked on the wrong date by mistake, and didn't bother checking properly because of the other problems in using this source.)
--NSH001 (talk) 23:29, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Lets keep in mind that primary sources can be used, especially as with this one it is a rare access to records that are in essence neutral and informative -  see WP:Primary...Modernist (talk) 23:49, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I found the manifest for the June 13, 1939 Europa trip from Bremen to Southhampton in Days of Departure...Modernist (talk) 23:08, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The article states that the ship Europa left from Bremen and disembarked kinder in Southampton. That would be perfectly normal since Europa was a transatlantic liner that normally departed from Bremen and normally called at Southampton and other ports en route to New York. BTW my home is less than ½ mile from Ocean Dock, Southampton, from where Titanic sailed and where Europa would have berthed. So I have some expertise in these matters. The harbourmaster's logbooks may still survive. Will inquire. George.Hutchinson (talk) 01:46, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  http://www.passengerlists.de 

message: The reference and the paragraph should remain until further sources and or references can be found to expand or to further verify the information.
The passenger list from July 21 1939 contains the names of many children from Germany, many of whom with reasonably common Jewish names, unaccompanied by older relations (with the same name).
Until further investigation this link should remain in place...Modernist (talk) 23:42, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Lets keep in mind that primary sources can be used, especially as with this one it is a rare access to records that are in essence neutral and informative -  see WP:Primary...Modernist (talk) 23:49, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I found the manifest for the June 13, 1939 Europa trip from Bremen to Southhampton in Days of Departure...Modernist (talk) 23:08, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The article states that the ship Europa left from Bremen and disembarked kinder in Southampton. That would be perfectly normal since Europa was a transatlantic liner that normally departed from Bremen and normally called at Southampton and other ports en route to New York. BTW my home is less than ½ mile from Ocean Dock, Southampton, from where Titanic sailed and where Europa would have berthed. So I have some expertise in these matters. The harbourmaster's logbooks may still survive. Will inquire. George.Hutchinson (talk) 01:46, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Europa

message: There's a problem with the chronology as the lead now stands. The first paragraph calls Kindertransport "a rescue mission that took place during the nine months prior to the outbreak of the Second World War", which would be early 1939. The second paragraph then says that the Central British Fund for German Jewry "was established in 1933 as a direct result", which is impossible given that 1933 was 6 years earlier. The fix is not obvious to me, sorry. Awien (talk) 16:43, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Problem with the lead 

message: The data you present should be adjusted to more accurately show the numbers of children who were saved. According to his book: "Kinder Transporte--A Study of Stresses and Traumas of Refugee Children" Rabbi Jacob Newman, M.A. D.Litt. states that the number of Jewish children were 7,486 . Presumably the remaining 2,500 (to make up the total 10,000) were non-Jewish, whose parents were regarded as undesirables by the Nazis and who escaped at the same time and by the same means. 
This book has recently came to light in Israel, having been made available from an unsold collection of about 150 kept by the son of its late author. For a copy write to ESRA book store, Beit Fisher, 5 Klausner Street, Ra'anna, Israel. There is also a website run by this charitable organization.Macrocompassion (talk) 14:41, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a self published book, however the author was present during the Kindertransport per this. Perhaps we can find other peer-reviewed sources with this information. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 19:02, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Additional Source of information 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090909102131/http://wintontrain.eu:80/en/site/nicholas-winton/nw-zivotopis.htm to http://www.wintontrain.eu/en/site/nicholas-winton/nw-zivotopis.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090805150553/http://www.theatrewomen.org:80/awards/morely to http://www.theatrewomen.org/awards/morely
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090904103942/http://www.ceskenoviny.cz:80/news/zpravy/train-in-honour-of-jewish-children-rescuer-winton-leaves-prague/395346 to http://www.ceskenoviny.cz/news/zpravy/train-in-honour-of-jewish-children-rescuer-winton-leaves-prague/395346
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20110810024457/http://www.wjr.org.uk/who-we-are/kindertransport to http://www.wjr.org.uk/who-we-are/kindertransport
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I have explained why this section is important ; and I have changed the title. Therefore I have felt it correct to remove the "in popular culture" criticism Kacser (talk) 05:57, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: IN POPULAR CULTURE

message: Dr Alberto Jonas got involved in these Kindertransporte  and traveled several times to England himself with children. 
Reference: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberto_Jonas 98.255.84.248 (talk) 22:33, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: . See WP:CIRCULAR. ◢  Ganbaruby!  (Say hi!) 12:13, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 26 March 2021 

message: Someone removed both cited and uncited content from the article  here.
I returned the cited content and went through and removed uncited content, some of which has been uncited for 2 to 10 years. See .–CaroleHenson (talk) 17:07, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent edits 

message: To say that these children were often the sole survivors of their family neglects to explain that their families perished in concentration camps as a direct result of the refusal, on security grounds, of Chamberlain’s government to take Jewish adults as refugees. This resulted in the heartbreaking separation of children from their families, the former joining the Kindertransport and the latter being left to the camps. 2A00:23C7:8680:5301:C0E1:D632:2A6D:C7A2 (talk) 18:06, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have reliable sources for the content that you'd like to add? If so, I would be happy to help.–CaroleHenson (talk) 05:02, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Distorted description of Kindertransport 

message: The term Kindertransport normally refers to the United Kingdom so there doesn't appear to be  justification for Section #12 United Kingdom and the United States rather than a See also reference to One Thousand Children unless the article's title is changed to something more general which would include the USA and the other European countries mentioned. 
If kept the section title would be better changed, perhaps to United States. Since the article doesn't mention "these OTC children" before, apart from "Main article: One Thousand Children", the first sentence needs changing. Mcljlm (talk) 17:21, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  United States; other European countries