Talk:Scotland/Archive 13

message: Given the fact that Scotland is considered "The sick man" of Europe and leads the continent (and often the world) in various different cancers, heart conditions and debilitating illnesses - isn't that at least worth some kind of mention?
:Yes, it is probably notable enough to merit a brief mention here in the main article, although I am pretty sure that it derves a more comprehensive treatment in one of the sub-articles. Hard to know where though? No country has a "Health in foo" subarticle (as far as I am aware), but several do have a "Healthcare in foo". We probably ought to start up our Healthcare in Scotland article pretty soon anyway. Only obvious alternative is the Demographics of Scotland article, which has a Social problems section. Feel free to add some sourced material to that section, re. health stats, and a brief mention in this main article (please apply WP:CITE); or, if you are feeling dead keen, please start up the full Healthcare in Scotland article! Cheers. --Mais oui! 14:38, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Health 

message: There is repeated reversions of the spellings of the words "recognised" and "Civilisation". Is the general consensus that English English or Scottish English is the language of this page and not American English or other dilates? Hense the spelling should be with a S not a Z. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rincewind42 (talk • contribs) 10:27, 4 November 2006
:There is a general consensus that English English should be applied to any articles which deal with European topics. However, you will find that Americanisation of spellings is fairly common throughout Wikipedia, probably more due to ignorance than malice. In Europe we are very familiar with US spellings, but it would seem that many, many American readers simply are not aware that other parts of the planet do things differently. Eg. you will not find random IP addresses changing "ize" to "ise" in US-related articles!
:In articles about English-speaking countries other than England itself (eg. Scotland, Ireland, Australia, South Africa, Jamaica etc) it is accepted that vocab, grammer etc of the standard national variants of the English language may be used. Thus we can use "outwith" in Scottish articles if we like, because it is an accepted element of Scottish Standard English, but we need to maintain an academic tone, so slang should be avoided.
:(Please remember to sign your posts with ~~~~.) --Mais oui! 11:36, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  S or Z 

message: I've nothing factually against the current lead section. However, it's not really up to mustard. Problems that were highlighted in the Peer review still exist. The text is trying to be overly detailed and precise. Trying to prove the facts in the lead rather. The lead is supposed to be a summery of the rest of the article. It's not supposed to contain more detail than the article. At the same time it must  be comprehensive, covering all the topics.
For example, the first paragraph deals mainly with Geography. The country is defined as "It is bounded by the North Sea to the east, the Atlantic Ocean to the north and west, and the North Channel and Irish Sea to the southwest." That seems rather precise and detailed for a summery. I checked the Geography section, it's says "Scotland lies between the Atlantic Ocean and the North Sea." This is a much more general statement than the lead. Things are back to front. I'd suggest a simplification for the lead to say just "Surrounded by sea on three sides, Scotland shares it's Southern land boundary with England." The precise details of which seas are were should be left to the detailed Geography section.
I pick only one example, but the general theme of too much detail and lack of comprehensive coverage continues throughout the rest of the section. Some work needs done here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rincewind42 (talk • contribs) 16:09, 13 November 2006 
:I think there could be a few minor amendments to the lead section, as it is, I don't think the problems are anywhere near as significant as you suggest. There are a few weasel words in it, that need to be dealt with - "approximately" and "consist of a large sector....) Largely the lead section is stable, and has taken a long time to get that way, it covers elements of history, geography, demographics, etymology and culture, as the peer review suggests it should and the over emphasis on the Military aspects has been dealt with. With respect to your criticism of the Geography paragraph being too specific - I don't think it is compared to the Geography section, which goes into more detail than the lead. If you look at the lead sections of the Libya and Australia pages (both Featured Articles) they seem fairly comprehensive in defining the countries and their boundaries and no/more or less so than we have on this article. Thanks Globaltraveller 21:25, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lede section problems 

message: This section points to Politics of Scotland as the main article which in turn refers the reader to Scottish Parliament, so, is there not scope for reducing the size of the Politics section in this article?  (I'm not volunteering to re-write it, mind you!)--Billreid 12:07, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the oposite. Why should Politics of Scotland equate only to the Scottish Pariarment. An article on or section on Politics should be comprehensive and cover Scotlands representation in the UK and also EU parliaments. It would also make some metion of the local government level and community councils. There is currently too much emphasis on just one area of politics. Rincewind42 13:45, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well, the two links above take you to all of the information that the Politics section covers in the Scotland article (including the local goverment information) --Billreid 15:05, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Politics

message: Border country currently contains the line "This made the Borders into a hive of thieves, outlaws, robbers, cattle plunderers, and the like." - 201.51.221.66 17:27, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Border country, a hive of scum and villainy 

message: I have created a proposed revision for the Geography sub-section of the Scotland page at User:Ben MacDui/Scotland/Geography redraft. Constructive comments are welcome on the associated Talk page. Ben MacDui (Talk) 08:42, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed re-draft of Scotland: Geography sub-section