Talk:Ochre

message: Sure, Ochre is a color, but what about the types of clay? There is no page on Wikipedia about that, and I believe this should be at least a segment or part of the introduction in this page.  Agree?  I sure do.
Ruti10 (talk) (random)   —Preceding undated comment added 23:16, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Multiple Meanings to Ochre

message: Hey, man, who's providing these pronunciations?  Do I really have to say 'euka' or is it all right to go on saying 'oker'?  In the US, 'o' is not a diphthong and final 'r' is not silent.
:All the dictionaries I have found say it's pronounced like "owe curr". – Quadell (talk) (random) 16:28, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a phonemic transcription so it doesn't really matter that the  is not diphthongal, however, you're absolutely right about the final /r/. Jimp 15:51, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Pronunciation

message: I can't find "ocher" as a word in any reputable dictionary.  My guess would be that this is a non-American editor familiar with the rule of thumb that "-re," when pronounced "er," becomes "-er" in the US, but ochre, like ogre, appears to be an exception.  Twin Bird (talk) 14:33, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe both spellings are used in American english, thus Ochre should be used as it is common to both. With the exception of quotations/titles/&c. that might use the other form. PaleAqua (talk) 04:09, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

text: This American aint never seen it spelled "ocher". Maybe we write center instead of centre, but the inspiration to spread the rule around prescriptionalistically no longer becomes native anglophones.213.149.62.62 (talk) 14:20, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'm puzzled. Collins, Merriam-Webster and Oxford all have it as a spelling. Doug Weller talk 15:52, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

text: Webster's New World Dictionary of the American Language also gives it as ocher, with ochre as the alternative spelling. SiefkinDR (talk) 18:09, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: As an American, I also can attest that I have never seen it spelled "ocher" (which my eyylltter is just changed to ochre, btw XD). When I was an archaeology student that word came up a LOT, and no spelling other than ochre was ever even considered: and HAD it been, it would have come up as one of the data items that were split due to different spellings that needed to be combined, and a spelling convention established (for example, we had to do this for grey/gray, sherd/shard (which variation is not a Brit/US distinction), and a few others. even for artifact, where usage of the American spelling was universal, everyone still knew about the British spelling artefact. Had 'ocher' been in any kind of actual uaage in published material, we would have at least occasionally have seen it and would have been aware of its existence. As for these dictionaries....maybe a particular instance of attempted spelling prescription that failed? It is well known that many American sellings came about as a result of prescription by dictionaried. it should be expected that at least some of these spellings would fail to affect usage. Firejuggler86 (talk) 00:28, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ocher? 

message: WP:ENGVAR calls for using the original language variant of the first non-stub version of the article or the most recent consensus, which in this case should be American English as both the original stub, and the early article up through 2014 Nov 25 was in America English. Thus I will be reverting the changes. Going to try to go through them manually to avoid messing up quotes etc. Please fix if I miss anything. PaleAqua (talk) 04:09, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Finished my edits. Wasn't able to find the exact quote by André Leroi-Gourhan in my searches though it appears to have been a translation of a French work. Also seems like references could be cleaned up a bit, and standardized using a citation template and then Notes and citations should be merged with references. At quick glances seems like there are some duplicates between the list. PaleAqua (talk) 04:51, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  This article is in British English, as per consensus. Thanks. GhostOfNoMeme (talk) 22:34, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

text: What consensus? The article has been in American English for years. Senor Cuete (talk) 22:43, 15 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  Agreed on British. If it was in US English, it would be at ocher. Andy Dingley (talk) 23:42, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

text:  Both creation and first non-stub were at ochre, using the UK spelling. Andy Dingley (talk) 23:44, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

text: It's spelt both ways in American English. Just because the title uses the French spelling isn't the same thing as claiming that there's a consensus without discussing it. The US English template has been there for years. Also removing edits to talk pages by other authors is absolutely forbidden. Senor Cuete (talk) 00:30, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  Then don't do it Andy Dingley (talk) 00:32, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

text:  And don't keep simply pushing a change onto the language tag anyway, against other editors:  Andy Dingley (talk) 00:35, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  WP:ENGVAR 

message: I've reverted to the long-established standard translation of Cennini. The new translation, if it is accurately transcribed, contains sentences that are barely intelligible, such as: "And the abovementioned pigments running through this landscape looked as a scar on the face of a man or of a woman looks... I went in behind with my little knife, prospecting at the scar of this pigment; and in this way, I promise you, I never sampled a more lovely and perfect ochre pigment." I think we have a duty to give a readable text. Paul B (talk) 21:35, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Translation

message: The section with the title Use in history, art and culture needs some re-organising, because:
* It's all over time, historically, presenting no clear sequence even in a single location or within a culture.
* It includes modern English usage (of the time of Thomas Hardy) - which possibly dates back to Chaucer's time, that of late mediaeval or early modern England, under the ancient history of the Mediterranean.
* Its discussion of the uses of ochre by the Picts is also out of place.
* It conflates "Modern history" with "Modern European history" – such hubris!
* Its material on the French ochre industry is unduly repetitive.
* It unites the historical use of ochre by Aboriginal Australians and Māori peoples in one section, although there's no evidence of pre-European contact between those cultures.
* It fails to clearly separate the use of ochre by American First Nations from that of European settlers.
I propose to sort this material more chronologically (by earliest use within a culture), then by culture within each epoch.
Also, within each culture discussed, I suggest we might mention the uses of ochre:
# first for body decoration and jewellery; 
# then for tools and weapons;
# then for dwellings, buildings and other architecture, both sacred and profane;
# and finally for portable art-works.
This organisation proceeds along an axis from most personal to least personal.  There may be better ways of organising material from such a wide span of history – any ideas?
 
But before I begin, I'd like to canvass other opinions.  What do you say?  yoyo (talk) 06:15, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds a very good idea. Like many editors perhaps, I rarely have the time or perhaps inclination in some cases to do an overhaul, so I end up mainly fixing vandalism, finding reliable sources and maybe removing bad ones, and occasionally adding something new I've found.  You've made some very good points about modern history and lumping the Aboriginal Australians with the Maori, which might make some people see a link that doesn't exist. Doug Weller talk 10:29, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use in history, art and culture 

message: In India sannyasis - class of renunciates - wear cloth dyed in ochre, which is also described as saffron color. But no one dyes their cloth in saffron as it would be prohibitively expensive. Whereas ochre is dirt cheap (-:49.206.8.184 (talk) 17:49, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  India 

message: Entries in List of colors: G–M contained links to this page.
The entry is :
* Light red ochre
I don't see any evidence that this color is discussed in this article and plan to delete it from the list per this discussion: Talk:List_of_colors#New_approach_to_review_of_entries
If someone decides that this color should have a section in this article and it is added, I would appreciate a ping.--S Philbrick(Talk) 15:49, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible removal from list 

message: The Use of Ochre and Painting During the Upper Paleolithic of the Swabian Jura in the Context of the Development of Ochre Use in Africa and Europe. Doug Weller talk 12:51, 15 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another source 

message: This article is not written in American English. For example, it has the word colour instead of color. What is the consensus it it be changed to American English?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.41.98.105 (talk) 15:52, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no reason to change it to American English. It was initially written in British English and since there is no national attachment for the article per WP:ENGVAR, British English it shall stay. Canterbury Tail talk 16:43, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  American English 

message: There's a heavy overlapping new article at Iron ochre that I think is best merged on the grounds of overlap and context. Klbrain (talk) 10:17, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: «All ochres are iron ochres»??? — This is a mistake or not true. All ocher = clay. Alumina. Aluminium oxide. This is a fundamental difference. When they simply say “ochre,” they mean a natural mixture (clay, sand, iron oxides). When they say “iron ocher,” they mean iron minerals, and not always oxides. --Namesnik (talk) 22:13, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge proposal 

message: — Assignment last updated by Ilovebaklava428 (talk) 16:01, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: The Phoenicians - Cunning Seafarers