Talk:Sex-selective abortion and female infanticide

message: What in the world does the quote from Muhammad Ali have to do with India?  (If there's a connection, it's not revealed in the article.) Jdavidb 00:49, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed.  I removed the quote.--Paul McMahon 17:34, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Muhammad Ali? 

message: Sex selective abandonment is the non-fatal alternative to sex-selective abortion and infanticide.  Many Chinese baby girls have been sacrificed for China's one-child policy.  95% Chinese children up for adoption are females.  Most Chinese male children up for adoption had disabilities.  It also has a positive result in the long run.  Many Americans embrace Chinese culture, such as eating Chinese food, buying Chinese ornaments, and, more surprisingly, adopting Chinese baby girls.  American and Canadian families are on a mission to rescue China's lost girls from the darkness of the "Dying Rooms."  In 1998, China toned down adoption restrictions, letting many unwanted infant girls find homes in my country the United States.  These little Chinese baby girls are the most rejected and discarded Chinese people, and their healthy male counterparts living with their biological parents have been dubbed "the little emperors."  Chinese baby girls are left in boxes, on the streets, in the woods, on the parks, and in the subways.  An increasing number of Americans and Canadians are spending US$3,000 to adopt Chinese baby girls.  In 1995, 2,901 Chinese infants were adopted by U.S. citizens, and more and more are adopted in the years afterward.  In 2003, 1,108 Chinese infants were adopted by Canadians.  Most American parents desire to adopt more than one Chinese baby girl, but one every few years.  When Chinese girls are adopted by Americans, they are given western names instead of Chinese names.  When they are brought to the United States, they become educated, but learn English instead of Chinese.  Chinese baby girls are usually adopted by Caucasian parents.  I do not know of any Chinese baby girls who were adopted by African-American parents.  Like Lisa Ling, I believe that one day when the lost Chinese girls adopted by the Americans are grown up, they will learn Chinese, and return to China, and change China.  Not only that, but I also believe that, as adults, they will get the opportunity to meet their Chinese biological parents, especially the mothers who abandoned them. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 06:29, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Americans rescuing China's lost girls 

message: this article is feminist blasphemy againist indian and chinese beleifs and should be DELETED and whoever wrote it prosecuted for blasphemy!!Pʰil 07:39, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Blasphemy isn't a crime here in the united states.  Do you have any problems with the factuality or nuetrality of the article? Could you cite specific problems? Fieari 22:40, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Just because India and China are the usual suspects here doesn't make it their exclusive problem.  I think the neutrality could be better showing data from a larger pool of nations.  That's always easier said than done.  Also, just because it's against their beliefs doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Ojcit 04:50, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  This is blasphemy 

message: I know this will remain in the edited versions of the page, but the following text was removed (by me) from the conclusion section because it appears to be unverifiable and unsourced. the numbers and studies information that still remains there is also apparently unsourced and uncited and I think that should be rectified.  This section I'm pasting below IS INTERESTING but without citation, it just seems to be conjecture, and largely irrelevant to the more serious consequences and problems with selective abortion and infanticide.  It needs to be cited.
:"In both China and India there are already growing rates of violent crime, sexual exploitation, and industrial accident fatalities which many attribute to large numbers of single men.  The hypothesis is that single men do not have to return home every night to a wife and child, and thus may have less to lose when they engage in irresponsible behavior.  Due to the shortage of Chinese women, Chinese men have also opted to marry North Korean and Vietnamese women.  Some experts have argued that there is a slim but significant risk of political instability in these countries in the near future.
:Sex imbalance is a maladaptive strategy in the long term as a family in a country with an excess of men would actually be better off having girls.  This is because their rarity makes them more valuable, and women can ignore the worst men (who will be the ones who do not get married). They will actually end up marrying better men than they would if there was an equal sex balance, while families who chose to keep male children face a greater probability of ending up with no next generation."
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.170.138.63 (talk • contribs) 
::I support this removal.  Looks like either an argumentitive essay (drawing a conclusion) or original research, neither of which is allowed here. Fieari 02:29, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  from consequences 

message: isn't the gender of a child determined by the father? the chromosome he puts forth is either X or Y, while the mother will always put forth X.  I am confused by this section.   67.162.66.69 21:40, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Right, but remember they don't count zygotes, just infants.  There's 9 months in between those events and birth for things to get complicated (twins, premature births, etc.)  IIRC there's research into in utero factors that may favor one gender slightly over another.  It's conceivable (no pun intended) that biological factors could come into play asymmetrically. Ojcit 04:46, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other causes of sex ratio imbalances 

message: "...close to 10 million female fetuses aborted in India over the past 20 years."  This statement doesn't tell me anything if it leaves out the number of male fetuses aborted.  Also, it doesn't give an indication of how many of those were known to be female before the abortion. Ojcit 05:20, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  careful with stats 

message: Problem solved. The rest of the text is visible now. oh no no no no no it is visible ... SIMPLY KIDDING...............—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jfraatz (talk • contribs) 00:10, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Problem solved.   

message: I boldly merged Prenatal discrimination and Sex-selective abortion and infanticide into this new article, as per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Prenatal discrimination. This article needs a lot of work as it's absolutely filled with unsourced claims, POV statements and original research. I took the liberty of adding tags at the top of the page and inserting various in-line tags as well. Hopefully editors can fill in the blanks with reliable sourcing. -- Scientizzle 03:58, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have moved this article back toSex-selective abortion and infanticide. "Selective abortion" is far too ambiguous, as there is also selective reduction, which is when the number of fetuses in a multiple pregnancy is deliberately reduced by abortion. The title of this article should give some indication of what is being selected. Also, there is no logical basis for lumping together Sex-selective abortion and Genetic-selective abortion into one article, as the term "prenatal discrimination" is neologistic and POV. I will thus be splitting off content related to genetic-selective abortion into Genetics and abortion in order to preserve thematic integrity. -Severa  (!!!) 04:02, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge complete

message: Because the article has been tagged for insufficent citations, we need to hire citation hunters, getting the article in accordance to accepted Wikipedia standards. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 22:48, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citation search 

message: I don't think that the article should be split or that it's pov. It's a most important subject. As stated above, even atheists (like me) are concerned about the problem. 
Historically, infanticide and selective abortion are related. Even in Western history both were common and intertwined, as can be seen in Will Durant's book on Greece.
I've added Psychohistorical views on infanticide in the "See also" section because I believe psychohistory theory provides the meta-perspective to understand this phenomenon. Take a look at this essay, ON THE DEMOGRAPHY OF FILICIDE, which appears after the first two paragraphs of the above, capital-letters link. 
—Cesar Tort 00:13, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Psychohistorical meta-perspective 

message: I added a book: page 248, Images of Women in Chinese Thought and Culture, edited by Robin R. Wang. Pub 2003 by Hackett Publishing. It's a Google 'search inside the book'. I don't know how to format refs. --—CynRN (Talk) 03:00, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Add reference, need help 

message: There seems to be a controversy as to whether this page should be ad Sex-selective abortion and infanticide or Sex-selective abortion and female infanticide.  If the second one is better, it should at least be something like Sex-selective female abortion and infanticide (different location of female). -Zeus-uc 05:24, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  page title 

message: Vernon Reynolds and Ralph Tanner: Biology of Religion argues that in renaissance Italy, England, "Germany" the sex ratio was 1.4-1.6 (male):1 (female) in the nobility attributed to hypergamy-motivated infactide, and also argues that it was nearly 1:1 within the commoners. 188.36.168.72 (talk) 07:24, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Renaissance Europe 

message: I have added a section on the Caucasus, relying upon Attané, Isabelle, and Guilmoto, Christophe Z., Watering the Neighbor's Garden: The Growing Demographic Female Deficit in Asia, Paris, Committee for International Cooperation in National Research in Demography, 2007.  This is a rich source of data, for anyone wanting to explore it, for all of Asia.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.62.158.205 (talk) 13:05, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Watering the neighbor's garden