Talk:Trentino/Archive 1

message: Province of Trento → Autonomous Province of Trento – The Province of Trento is more than a Province, it is an autonomous province, and the correct name for it is Provincia Autonoma di Trento (in English: Autonomous Province of Trento). Checco 09:58, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Trentino redirects to this page and is a regional name.  Province of Trento works well.  Taalo 20:45, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No it does not. The article talks not just about the autonomous province, but about the history of the entire region as well. Do a Google search and you will see which term is used more often. Gryffindor 15:11, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Alrighty, thanks for sharing your POV. Taalo 17:36, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh dio.. :P  Ok, well I have a lot of affection for the name Trentino as well, but I'd really hope we can have a Province of Trento page as well.  It still makes sense to me to simply have redirects from Trentino and Alto Adige/Sudtirol (South Tyrol) to the modern provinces. Taalo 17:45, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Trentino is realy the same as Province of Trento. I'd support this move :-|--Martin Se 09:06, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well then I'd think we should have a Trentino and Province of Trento page and a Alto Adige/Südtirol and Province of Bolzano-Bozen page. It seems obvious that going for one or the other is just going to create debates until the end of time. Taalo 05:05, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Move Province of Trento to Autonomous Province of Trento

message: Add "# Support" or "# Oppose" on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~. Please remember that this survey is not a vote, and please provide an explanation for your recommendation.
====Survey - in support of the move====
#Support The special status of the autonomous provinces is worth recognizing in the titles of the articles. —Ian Spackman 17:33, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Survey 

message: #Support The special status of the autonomous provinces is worth recognizing in the titles of the articles. —Ian Spackman 17:33, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey - in support of the move

message: # Oppose --Martin Se 09:09, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey - in opposition to the move

message: Add any additional comments
I would actually propose we strike out all this complicated "Autonomous Province of X" part and go with a simple "Trentino". Gryffindor 10:39, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Trentino redirects to this page and is a regional name.  Province of Trento works well.  Taalo 20:45, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No it does not. The article talks not just about the autonomous province, but about the history of the entire region as well. Do a Google search and you will see which term is used more often. Gryffindor 15:11, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Alrighty, thanks for sharing your POV. Taalo 17:36, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh dio.. :P  Ok, well I have a lot of affection for the name Trentino as well, but I'd really hope we can have a Province of Trento page as well.  It still makes sense to me to simply have redirects from Trentino and Alto Adige/Sudtirol (South Tyrol) to the modern provinces. Taalo 17:45, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Trentino is realy the same as Province of Trento. I'd support this move :-|--Martin Se 09:06, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well then I'd think we should have a Trentino and Province of Trento page and a Alto Adige/Südtirol and Province of Bolzano-Bozen page. It seems obvious that going for one or the other is just going to create debates until the end of time. Taalo 05:05, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussion 

message: Province of Trento → Trentino – The article talks about the historical region. Official names are not used on Wikipedia for territories. A Google search shows that the term "Trentino" gets 26,700,000 hits, "Province of Trento" 1,220,000 hits, "Autonomous Province of Trento" 82,100 hits. So I think this case is pretty obvious. Gryffindor 17:50, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Move Province of Trento to Trentino

message: Add "# Support" or "# Oppose" on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~. Please remember that this survey is not a vote, and please provide an explanation for your recommendation.
====Survey - in support of the move====
#Support to move Gryffindor 17:50, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Survey 

message: #Support to move Gryffindor 17:50, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey - in support of the move

message: #Oppose I'll assume good faith, but my gut tells me this is sour grapes on the part of Gryffindor regarding the move of South Tyrol.  Bottom line, the convention is Province of X.  We have a redirect from the area name to the province name.  If it is decided on South Tyrol to do a split (very likely) of a history section and a province section, then I'd say there is some validity to doing that here too. Taalo 22:15, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey - in opposition to the move

message: we have multiple polls and this is getting a bit ridiculous again.  Could someone scrap the above move requests and go for a poll again like we did on other pages.  So far I see Province of Trento, Autonomous Province of Trento, and Trentino.  As at South Tyrol we should obviously consider a split in articles between provincial and historical. Taalo 05:08, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ok... 

message: So we don't have to run multiple polls at the same time (which I've put over in the archive), here is a list of the three most common names that people seem to prefer.  I will move people's support votes here, they of course can change later.  Also, please say if you support a split between the area historia and an actual administrative province page.  It looks like we are likely going to split South Tyrol into a Province of BZ and a historical page. thanks Taalo 07:08, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Straw Poll 

message: #Support The special status of the autonomous provinces is worth recognizing in the titles of the articles. —Ian Spackman 17:33, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Autonomous Province of Trento]] 

message: #Support to move Gryffindor 17:50, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Trentino]] 

message: *Support I support a Province of TN and Trentino split. Taalo 07:17, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  split of administrative vs. historical 

message: So we don't have to run multiple polls at the same time (which I've put over in the archive), here is a list of the three most common names that people seem to prefer.  I will move people's support votes here, they of course can change later.  Also, please say if you support a split between the area historia and an actual administrative province page.  It looks like we are likely going to split South Tyrol into a Province of BZ and a historical page. thanks Taalo 07:08, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Straw Poll 

message: #Support The special status of the autonomous provinces is worth recognizing in the titles of the articles. —Ian Spackman 17:33, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Autonomous Province of Trento]] 

message: #Support the most logical name, according to this page, though it is really "morally" irrelevant for me if you decide one or the other. Will we have to move "Province of Belluno" to "Bellunese" or something like that, then? However, I have to say that I'm astonished by the meannes and perseverance of some of the people involved in this polls, even for a non-controversial issue like this.--Supparluca 08:22, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Province of Trento]] 

message: #Support to move Gryffindor 17:50, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Trentino]] 

message: Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" or other opinion in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~
*Support Gryffindor 19:55, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Survey 

message: :The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 
Province of Trento → Autonomous Province of Trento — To recognize the special status of this autonomous province in the title of the article. —Icsunonove 00:57, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *Support or *Oppose, then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.
====In Support of the move====
*Support As nominator.  We've had past straw polls, and when comparing Autonomous Province of Trento to Province of Trento, the former was more acceptable.  Also "Autonomous Province of" is a more correct translation. Icsunonove 00:58, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In fact, I don't like the version of the Italian wikipedia :). I think that an asterisk is enough.--Supparluca 12:23, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Well, to clarify a bit, it was an admin Gryffindor who at one point unilaterally moved the page to Trentino.  That isn't really related to this request to append Autonomous to the Province's name.  thanks for checking in on us though! :-) Icsunonove 04:17, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly, the only user involved in the edit war was Gryffindor, for nationalistic reasons.--Supparluca 07:20, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: He was warring all alone, without any opponents? Please remember that war is not like sex, it always takes at least two. —AldeBaer (c) 13:22, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In fact, I believe it was a case of masturbation.  Supparluca, would you agree? Sorry to be so crude. :)) Icsunonove 17:09, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

text: The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal.  Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it be moved. --Stemonitis 05:47, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Requested move 2007

message: :Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *Support or *Oppose, then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.
====In Support of the move====
*Support As nominator.  We've had past straw polls, and when comparing Autonomous Province of Trento to Province of Trento, the former was more acceptable.  Also "Autonomous Province of" is a more correct translation. Icsunonove 00:58, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In fact, I don't like the version of the Italian wikipedia :). I think that an asterisk is enough.--Supparluca 12:23, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: *Support As nominator.  We've had past straw polls, and when comparing Autonomous Province of Trento to Province of Trento, the former was more acceptable.  Also "Autonomous Province of" is a more correct translation. Icsunonove 00:58, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: In Support of the move

message: *Oppose The most logical name, according to this page, is "Province of Trento", and the autonomous Italian regions don't have an "Autonomous region of-" title in wikipedia, but they have an asterisk when they are listed.--Supparluca 08:17, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In fact, I don't like the version of the Italian wikipedia :). I think that an asterisk is enough.--Supparluca 12:23, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: In opposition to the move

message: *No opinion "Autonomus Province of Trento is more precise, but the current title is simpler. What is important for me is that this article, and also that on the Province of Bolzano (now titled South Tyrol), have a "Province of XXXXXX" title. --Checco 07:20, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: No opinion

message: Note to whoever closes this: the title of this article has been the subject of edit warring over the past few months; please see the talk archive for more information. Dekimasuよ! 00:24, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, to clarify a bit, it was an admin Gryffindor who at one point unilaterally moved the page to Trentino.  That isn't really related to this request to append Autonomous to the Province's name.  thanks for checking in on us though! :-) Icsunonove 04:17, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly, the only user involved in the edit war was Gryffindor, for nationalistic reasons.--Supparluca 07:20, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: He was warring all alone, without any opponents? Please remember that war is not like sex, it always takes at least two. —AldeBaer (c) 13:22, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In fact, I believe it was a case of masturbation.  Supparluca, would you agree? Sorry to be so crude. :)) Icsunonove 17:09, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

text: The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal.  Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.</div>
It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it be moved. --Stemonitis 05:47, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion

message: The Province of Trento/Trentino was part of Tyrol.  The Tyrol dab page references this historical information.  I'm fine to remove the link if you all don't think it is correct. Icsunonove 18:47, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I prefer not to have it, indeed. --Checco 18:55, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Me neither, because it can't happen that a reader is redirected from Tyrol to Province of Trento, so nobody could find that information useful at the beginning of this page.--Supparluca 19:09, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, I see what you mean.  In the case of Bolzano-Bozen it makes more sense because someone could look for South Tyrol.  But, I think we should at least keep the text about the Province of Trento in the Tyrol (disambiguation) page, right?  Oh, one thing though. What if someone searches for Italian Tyrol or Welschtirol?  They will go to Province of Trento then.  Anyway, thanks for the discussion my hyper-nationalist Italian friends. :-)  Just kidding. Icsunonove 20:19, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tyrol 

message: In my opinion the redirect Trentino-> Province of Trento is not good (nor here nor in the Italian version), or at least we need another indipendent entry 'Trentino'. 'Trentino' is historically and geographically a more general term, including also notions and history of the autonomy of the Province. In fact you can find easily in every encyclopedia the entry 'Trentino' and not 'Province of Trento'. There is an 'history of Trentino' (see books and references), an 'economy of Trentino', and so on, but there doesn't exist at all an entry, in any encyclopedia, 'history of the Province of Trento', 'economy of the province of Trento',etc. The term '[Autonomous] Province of Trento is an official term, and sounds quite bureaucratic. The same would be if we wrote, for instance, an entry 'U.S. State of Montana' in place of simply 'Montana', and so on. --Gazal Cotre (talk) 17:49, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Province of Trento=Trentino: I don't see the problem and I remember to all that this article is one of the 110 articles about Italian Provinces, all titled "Province of XXXXX". --Checco (talk) 10:38, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

text: I have no problems with History of Trentino, but I still don't support your idea. --Checco (talk) 21:31, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

text: If its name was "Principato di Trento" why does "Trentino" refer better to the history of this land? Tuscany, Lombardy, Savoy and Maremma aren't Italian provinces.--Supparluca 04:03, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  'Trentino' and/or 'Province of Trento'?

message: Could someone fill me in on this statement?  Also, since we are finally going all multilingual, can someone add Hochetsch back to the BZ page?  It is used quite often according to a Google search. :) Icsunonove (talk) 05:02, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Tridentinus, good to see you again!  Yes, I know it is wrong, but this is Gryffindor we speak about.  I tried to remove his ridiculous sentence, but he puts them back.  Maybe he will try to ban me if I do it again? :)  Also, the guy Noclador is making sure to go around now and erase any of the historical Latin and Ladin terms used to call the cities in BZ.  Anyway, I just stopped by for a small visit to see how these people were doing. :)  It is such a laugh in the end.. Icsunonove (talk) 10:06, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

text: It is not? Then where is Trentino exactly? Gryffindor (talk) 08:23, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  "The territory of the province equals to southern part of historic Trentino region" 

message: Is anyone able to add the Ladin translation of the name (regardless of whether it is "official" or not, to avoid all those arguments that raged about whether the German name was "official")?  Skinsmoke (talk) 12:35, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name (again)