Talk:Vedad Ibišević

message: Ibišević was born in 1984 and at that time the country was SFR Yugoslavia. Hubschrauber729 (talk) 22:05, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree.  What's the issue? -- Ricky81682 (talk) 06:07, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: SFRY (now, Bosnia and Herzegovina) agreed. Thank you.--Alem Hadzic (talk) 09:25, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: This discussion is for most part held at: Talk:Edin_Džeko#Country_of_birth  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stlunatic071 (talk • contribs) 21:18, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Country of Birth 

message: The reason England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are listed as separate countries in the infobox is purely a footballing reason. Because FIFA consider them to be independent of each other, and because they have always had separate national teams, we show their countries of birth as the SPORTING country they represent (England, or whatever) not the geo-political nation they were actually born in (United Kingdom).
Ibisevic's country - Bosnia - does not fall under the same category, because had the breakup of Yugoslavia not taken place, he would have played for the Yugoslavian national team. Beckham could never have played for a UK national team, because there isn't one. So, really, Beckham is a bad example.
A better comparison is Andrei Shevchenko. When he was born, Ukraine was not an independent nation, and was still part of the USSR. If the Soviet Union had not broken up, he would have played internationally for the Soviet Union. However, because the Soviet Union DID break up, and because Ukraine became an independent nation, Shevchenko plays for Ukraine. He was BORN in the Soviet Union; he PLAYS for Ukraine, which came into existance after he was born. You can do this with all current Russia/Ukraine/Belarus/Lithuania/Latvia players. The same for all current Czech Republic/Slovakia players, who were all born in what was then Czechoslovakia and would have all played for the Czechoslovakia national team had that country not split in two.
Is this making sense? --JonBroxton (talk) 22:06, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Hold on, let's back up a little. I quote: "The reason England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are listed as separate countries in the infobox is purely a footballing reason. Because FIFA consider them to be independent of each other, and because they have always had separate national teams, we show their countries of birth as the SPORTING country they represent (England, or whatever) not the geo-political nation they were actually born in (United Kingdom).". This is precisely why at this point not only shouldn't we be arguing about whether it should say Yugoslavia or Bosnia and Herzegovina, but we should be coming to an agreement whether it should say SR Bosnia and Herzegovina or Bosnia and Herzegovina. This is ludicrous. First, you try quoting the rules of Wikipedia and once I pointed out the rule which fully supports the argument of SR Bosnia and Herzegovina you go to this and now you can't even understand your own quote.--Stlunatic071 (talk) 22:15, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Here let me make it easy for you, check: Talk:David_Beckham/Archive_3#David_Beckham.27s_Nationality.--Stlunatic071 (talk) 22:21, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You're not getting the point. You asked me why Beckham's infobox says England. It's because, although England is not an independent nation, when he was born his FIFA-recognized country of birth was England - not UK, because UK doesn't have a national football team. This rule also applies to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. However, when Ibisevic was born, his FIFA-recognized country of birth was Yugoslavia - not Bosnia, because in 1984 Bosnia didn't have a national football team, and was not recognized as an independent nation by ANYONE. This rule also applies to Croatia, Slovenia, Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Russia, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Belarus, Ukraine, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Armenia, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Czech Republic, Slovakia... need I go on? --JonBroxton (talk) 22:22, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Was it too much to click on David Beckham's talk page and read or should I make it even easier for you by quoting it here and wasting space and time because you can't understand your own source.--Stlunatic071 (talk) 22:32, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I read the link. I posted my response afterwards. Stop being obtuse. --JonBroxton (talk) 22:35, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

text: Let's try this another way. Currently, the United States of America is a federal republic made up of 50 states; exactly the same as the former Yugoslavia was made up of several different republic. If you are born in California today, you are both Californian and American, but the COUNTRY you are born in is the USA; the USA is a member of the UN, FIFA and the IOC, but Kansas and Iowa and Alabama are not, because they are not independent, just as in 1984 Yugoslavia was a member of the UN, FIFA and the IOC, but Slovenia and Croatia and Serbia were not. HOWEVER; if the United States were to fall apart tomorrow, and all 50 states suddenly became independent nations, then a baby born in Los Angeles next week would be Californian, not American, because America would no longer exist. Do you understand this? --JonBroxton (talk) 22:40, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well then stop being hypothetical and resorting to further complicate the issue. And what response is that? I don't see one here, so far you've done nothing but kept pushing the issue further and further away from the solution.--Stlunatic071 (talk) 22:43, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The response where I said "You're not getting the point. You asked me why Beckham's infobox says England. It's because, although England is not an independent nation, when he was born his FIFA-recognized country of birth was England - not UK, because UK doesn't have a national football team. This rule also applies to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. However, when Ibisevic was born, his FIFA-recognized country of birth was Yugoslavia - not Bosnia, because in 1984 Bosnia didn't have a national football team, and was not recognized as an independent nation by ANYONE. This rule also applies to Croatia, Slovenia, Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Russia, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Belarus, Ukraine, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Armenia, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Czech Republic, Slovakia... need I go on?" How am I complicating the issue? If anything, I'm providing more and more examples of situations which exactly mirror the one relating to Ibisevic's country of birth, all of which indicate that the country of birth should be SFR Yugoslavia. --JonBroxton (talk) 22:47, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Beckham Example 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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