Talk:Italians/Archive 3

message: Can someone tell me who the indigenous people of Italy are? Siberians are indigenous to Russia, Basque people are indigenous to France and Spain, but what about Italy? Are Sicilians indigenous people? Judging by their appearance, they certainly look a lot like Basque people and they are not considered as "white". Media Research 21:24, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Indigenous Italians?

message: I wrote some stuff under Moors with pictures as proof and words as proof about the blackness of Italians and Northern Africans.  Just like in another article about Europeans peoples who have African blood in them, my FACTS were deleted from the talk page.  If you don't like it, let the readers decide and comment on it.  If your only goal was to keep your BS lies and not want the truth out there, then you are sad.  However, it won't change the facts.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.235.94.254 (talk) 03:37, August 27, 2007 (UTC) 
oK but u need 2 stop talkin junk becuz Italians do it best and you kno it so get over ur self!!!!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.10.100.34 (talk) 17:36, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ANother POV Article/Talk Page 

message: I wanted to include and promote new articles on other communities of the Italian people/diaspora. I want to get started on Italians in France, the Netherlands and Sweden, Italians in Argentina and Chile, and Italian (mostly Corsican) migration to Puerto Rico, and even Italians in South Africa. These countries have quite a lot of Italian communities and descendants contributed to their home countries. What can I do to get started, other than reliable sources and research to comply with Wikipedia standards? + 63.3.14.1 15:55, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal: expand see also list 

message: I saw this film where the guy told an Italian gangerter he was 1/2 negro. I also heard other Italians call each other African. Is this true? We should include it.--Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ 16:53, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The film you are talking about is True Romance, where Dennis Hopper (playing Clifford Worley) tells Christopher Walken (playing Vincenzo Coccotti, a Sicilian gangster) that Siclians are half-black due to the historic presence of the Moors in the territory. He does so in order to insult and force Coccotti to kill him. This is a film, a piece of fiction, where a character uses racist stereotypes in order to attack another character, it has no credebility as a proper historic source or other and it confuses the North African Moors with Sub-Saharan African Blacks, exagerating their impact on Sicilians. The Ogre 17:10, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, Italians are pretty homogenous in terms of European. Just becuase Italians have curly hair means nothing. I know Irish and Scandinavian people with curly hair. Please Read: http://www.technologyreview.com/Biotech/16421/page2/ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 142.222.112.185 (talk) 20:32, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I have been to Italy, and most Italian people dont have curly hair. In fact a lot of people are light hair as well even in Sicily! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.36.26.204 (talk) 22:57, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

text: "I don't get why Sicily is always associated to the moor invasion. "
because many english language speakers have seen the misinformed movie "True Romance", sadly lazy people try to look for education in pop culture movies and think this makes them experts on geneology of regions. you almost never heard the same thing been said about Spain on the level that it is with Sicily, and the moors were in Spain for far, far longer than Sicily and why? because that wasn't in some dumbed down american movie. 
it is rather sad that people look to american movies for "education", it wouldn't surprise me if people start asking if fish can really talk because they saw it in finding nemo.-- SalvoCalcio 09:12, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Are Italians 1/2 Black?

message: Reading parts of this article and talk page really makes me feel sorry for Italians who have to put up with all this garbage. I don't know what is wrong with Americans and why they have developed all these racial myths about Italians, debating even their skin tone and color of their hair etc... This obsessive questioning of racial purity seems to be conveyed in American movies and media as well. Quite frankly it is not only a load of crap but quite embarassing and not fit for a supposedly serious encyclopedic project like wikipedia. There is a large Italian-American community in the US (no doubt the largest southern European population) and I can only assume that this is the reason for which they are targeted in such a way.
Population genetics and history is very interesting but it can be discussed seriously and without constantly bringing up recycled myths which reflect unresolved issues in American society.
Why are the "physical characteristics" of Italians discussed in the article? Whether northern italians are fairer or southern italians are darker... Which other "people" article discusses these things? This should be erased.
--Burgas00 23:42, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree! The Ogre 00:37, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why should be racist? Have you ever been in Italy? Northern Italians look very different from Southern Italians. This is a fact and was subject of many reputable anthropological studies (e.g. those of Luca Cavalli-Sforza or Renato Biasutti): try here. Why should be racist to write that? This is just a problem for people who think that having different skin colours means something more than just look different. Is maybe also racist to write that people in Congo have darker skin and hair than people in Sweden? --Fertuno 10:50, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Let's end this pointless discussion once and for all. Except for a few posters that seem to be on some sort of mission, we all agree that italians are not a homogeneous people and, as a result, there is no discernable, clear-cut difference between northern and southern Italians- only the frequency of certain physical characteristics tend to change from one end to the other (and from east to west in the north!). The "reputable" studies by Cavalli-Sforza are greatly flawed and, in any event, do not point to the conclusions implied by Fertuno above. Many in the north have classic "Mediterranean" features and complexions. It is also true that many in the south have classic "Germanic" or "Slavic" features and complexions. The same can be said for almost any south and/or western European country. Mariokempes 16:36, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I totally agree. Really seems that you, burgas and miskin are the only reasonable people here. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.1.6.60 (talk) 15:27, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Uh, maybe I missed something... are you guys really trying to tell me there's not a general difference between the north and the south? The northern Italians tend to be slightly fairer, while the southern Italians tend to be slightly darker.  That statement is NOT saying, in any way, shape, or form, that every person in the north is lighter and every person in the south is darker. But it IS saying that that tends to be the common theme. Also, I don't know what that guy is talking about saying there's been a mass movement and mixture over the last 50 years. Economically speaking, the north is better off than the south. It's been like that for longer than 50 years.  There has not been a mass migration and mixation.  Yes, people move, but if you've ever met an Italian, they are proud of their specific (state defined) regions, as well as their geographic (northern, southern, and Sicily) region.  The government has recently been trying to provide more support for the south, but progress has been slow. As with any economic gap, there is a slight amount of tension between the upper class and lower class. I'll use the region of Sicily as an example, as it has usually been one of the poorer regions and that's where my family is from. You do not see many northerns jumping at the chance to move to Sicily. At the same time, not many of the islanders can afford to move to the north. Stating general facts does not make someone ignorant. Saying that people in China look Asian is a pretty common assumption, right? Are you be racist against any Europeans, Africans, etc. living there? Not at all. It's assumed that there are exceptions and slight mixing everywhere. That does not mean that generalities don't exist and/or can't be discussed. Icehcky8 16:58, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Physical Characteristics and stupid debates

message: If you search chipilo youll see that theres a city full of italians in mexico. - 12.227.136.185
*You're right, but as it is mentioned in the article Italian Mexicans, the Italian population is unknown because the census doesn't record data from any specific ethnicity, like in other countries. -- Lancini87 21:01, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  What about Mexico 

message: The history section is much too long, given a main article exists on the History of Italy. I will work on reducing it- if no one objects. Mariokempes 23:00, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Historical Background 

message: See the English people article. It has such a section. I am not Italian, but honestly believe that the contribution to humanity of the Italian people is unique in the world, from the pre-Roman past to the Romans and the Renaissance in modern times. This section should be introduced. Jan.
Probably in famous talian pictures should be put some romans, like Cezar. 
:Italians came from Romans, no doubt, but the article is about modern Italians, so Cesar doesnt fit here. I wrote such a section to the Russians article. The English have it, and i think the Chinese have it (if they dont, they should), and i belive it's not fair that Italians dont have it, no doubt they deserve it. M.V.E.i. 22:15, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I wrote the original section, your edits and add-ons are exelent. It has place to be because it shows the contributing role the nation played. And again, nice edits! M.V.E.i. 10:05, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contributions to humanity 

message: How about some pictures of modern day Italians. Like Nancy Pelosi, Kelly Ripa, Gwen Stefani, etc.
Those are Italian-Americans, not Italians. Sicilianmandolin 04:41, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  About Pictures 

message: Just a comment for thought... After reading through the list of "significant populations", I feel compelled to note that it is not really a clear, valid representation of Italian people and, apart from the fact that many are only "part" Italian, it ignores many historical and recent factors. 
One example... it indicates there are some 90,000 Italians in Spain. I suspect many are actually originally from Argentina. I know of many Argentines that have "returned" to Europe in the last couple of decades, and have used European citizenship as means of entry. Many Italian argentines have relocated back to Italy, but given many are newer generations fluent in the Spanish language, I am sure many have used the EU open policy to move to Spain as "Italians". 
Another point is the not so clear historic migrations. There has been much intermingling within Europe and, in particular, the Mediterranean basin. For example, many Catalans have at least some Genoese roots that go back centuries (they must number in the tens of thousands). Are they Italian according to this list? In addition, much of France has a native, historic Italian population, and many of the "French" people have some Italian roots that go back centuries (I've read as much as 20% of the French people have some Italian ancestry). These examples do not fit the "immigrant" populations of the diaspora of the late 19th and early 20th century that primarily compose the list. How does this list purport to "draw the line" accurately? I guess that my concern is that, in spite of the limitations, this list comes across as definitive and clear-cut... something it cannot be. Mariokempes 22:57, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Regions with significant populations" list 

message: The Historical Background and the Origins of the Italian People seem to overlap greatly. Is there any way in which we can bring them together?? Also there seems to be many punctation and grammatical errors on the information Galati 04:06, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Repitition 

message: Quoted from the article, Origins section: "Most Italians are descended from the Romans".
These are weasel words, please edit. Anno del Dragone 09:50, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, this is true. Italians are Romans+other ethnic groups that "visited" Italy. All Italians have Roman blood, the difference is that every region in Italy had it's own "guests", thats why Italians from different regions have different dialects. M.V.E.i. 17:27, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Weasel Words 

message: I am stunned there are people here who debate on idiot things which only American are interested in.
WASP are rubbish and Americans are the most ignorant people on Earth (without offence), it's well known to everybody. SO WHY are you going on talking with this people about nonsense idiocies and lies? 
EVERYBODY IS FED UP WITH THIS OLD SKIN-STUFF and other crap.
According to you is there any hope a people who take for granted the crap of an old idiot movie can ever be vaguely educated? And they have the courage to write it like a reliable source!!!
According to you is there any hope this people can reason in a normal way considering they "educate" themselves by hearing bullshits from a B-movie? And they firmly believe it!!!!
"True Romance"???? WOW! A true scholar source. What high sources they can boast about their education...
Obviously (as chance would have it) they are receptives ONLY when talking about invented stereotypes and in what they want to believe, because if in that movie the character said the contrary nobody would have cared about it. If he said Sicily was Norman and Vicking for a long time (which is moreover true) I bet that speech of him wouldn't have had that resonance nor it would have became so "famous".
Guys, only an indisputable proof: see how American movies have always depicted Italians and Italy and the mountains of crap they reversed on them (a privilege which is not given to any other people on the planet), it's something umbelievable!! I think in 2007 even an idiot cannot believe in those pathetic invented stereotypes (excepts the majority of Americans audience). It's something so false that all the rest of the world laugh at. Look in what way they want absolutely to depict the features of an Italian. When it comes to show Italy it's something a normal person burst with laugh.
Another proof? there ISN'T ANY OTHER PEOPLE PAGE on wikipedia that has the "features" article.
They are obsessed by this "African" bullshit but even in the Spaniard page there is not a single word about "features" or similar, considering Spain was Arabic for centuries...just an example.
They have the brain stuffed by stereotypes, clichés and the rest is.... empty.
I do not want to offend anybody but proofs seem to me very clear.
Let they think whatever they want because in my opinion they have no hope.
Think about it.
And stop this idiot thread because it is weary and it became truly boring.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.50.62.54 (talk) 11:30, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Americans? 

message: Currently, the info box for this article is made up of six Italians, all of them male. It would make sense to have at least two women in there instead. JdeJ 08:13, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I had been thinking similarly. Sicilianmandolin 09:06, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

text: That is a great idea and I support it 100%. I never wanted to remove any of the existing images, all six of them are truly famous Italians who deserve to be in here. As you said, the trick is to find two famous Italian women with free images. I'll think about it and come with suggestions, I hope others do likewise! Cheers JdeJ 19:09, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Exelent :-) I will regulary check this talk page to see what people propose. M.V.E.i. 19:16, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Madonna is Italian-American, not Italian. Thus, she does not qualify. I'm thinking Maria Gaetana Agnesi and Barbara Strozzi. Maybe Maria Montessori. Sicilianmandolin 19:47, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This article is about Italian ethnicity not citizenship. Madonna is ethnical Italian, so she fits. NEVERTHELESS, you proposed something much more interesting. Maria Gaetana Agnesi, a scientist, contributed to mathematics, represents women in science, perfect. Barbara Strozzi, represents Italian music (because it's absurd we didn't have a musical representer in the Italians image, and she will cover up for that. Plus she's both Singer and Composer, it's "two in one" and that's just amaizing!). Great suggestion, i support it! Lets see what JdeJ will say (so we will have a full concensus), and if he wont object we could consider it a concensus and i will create the new version. M.V.E.i. 
20:56, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Out of your choice i like Oriana Fallaci (Maria De' Medici and Lucrezia Borgia have nothing unique, and Laura Pausini is only "one out of a million" as i say), but we have only two places and i really liked Sicilianmandolin's suggestion for Maria Gaetana Agnesi and Barbara Strozzi. Oriana Fallaci was a great suggestion (an amaizing woman), the problem with Oriana Fallaci, is that her image is not free. The trick is to use free/public domain images, otherwise some administrator will remove it. M.V.E.i. 21:20, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Found it! A public domain photo of her here. M.V.E.i. 21:27, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

text: A third candidate was suggested, Maria Montessori. So now we have thre candidates. M.V.E.i. 22:03, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

text: So i vote first. Oriana Fallaci. A strong woman who fought against the Facist regime of Mussolini, who was a great writer, and she can represent the Italian literature. M.V.E.i. 21:27, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Both of them would be good choices, but I vote for Oriana Fallaci as she is more contemporary and, perhaps because of that, also more well known internationally. JdeJ 21:38, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

text: I've re-thought the Fallaci candidacy... while she was a remarkable woman, she did stir tremendous controversy in her latter life that may be best avoided. We're not here to stir up perpetual stupid debates (there are enough of them on Wikipedia). Apart from that, I don't have strong opinions about who to choose- I think any one of them is a good choice. Nonetheless, here are my comments: To be honest, I don't think Strozzi is famous enough. I would go with Montessori just for the name recognition. I used to live on a via Agnesi, so I vote for her as well (how's that for a basis for decision?!).  Mariokempes 21:46, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that Fallaci's contoversies are beutiful and are part of her strong charecter :-) But Thats your right to chose who to vote for. You propose a third candidate, Maria Montessori. She has a public domain image  here. M.V.E.i. 21:52, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I entered her as a third candidate. M.V.E.i. 22:03, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Ok for now the score is: Oriana Fallaci - 2, Maria Gaetana Agnesi - 0, Maria Montessori - 1. But we need more people to vote. M.V.E.i. 22:03, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't mean to stir the pot here, but Strozzi by default? Where is the consensus in that? I think it should be four candidates with the top two going in. Mariokempes 22:21, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Four will be to much. 2 is the best, but i entered 3. With three it gows like this if no one gets the minimum 50% of the votes we make a second vote beetwen the 2 leading candidates, and that's how we reach the closest to a concensus. Can you imagine the mess we get if we have 4 candidates?? Making 4 candidates can make it a messy discussion. M.V.E.i. 22:28, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's fine, but why is Strozzi automatically in? Mariokempes 22:31, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Italian classic music is famous. It needs to be represented. We didnt have place to enter Vivaldi or Pavaroti. BUT inserting her we enter a woman, a composer, and a singer. 3 in one. M.V.E.i. 22:35, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

text: I vote for Agnesi and Montessori. I don't like the idea of including more contemporary individuals. Time has given justification to the importance of women like Agnesi and Montessori, less so circumstance. Sicilianmandolin 01:36, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So now it's Oriana Fallaci - 3, Maria Gaetana Agnesi - 0, Maria Montessori - 2. Ok guys. So i enter Fallaci and Montessori, since many said they dont want Barbara Strozzi. M.V.E.i. 10:12, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

text: You overhauled the votes. I don't care anyway. It's a silly thing to draw a vote over. Sicilianmandolin 20:45, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Whats "overhauled"? I dont know that word. M.V.E.i. 21:05, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

text: From dictionary.com: "to gain upon, catch up with, or overtake, as in a race." In the context of the vote, it would refer to the mistaken addition of a vote to Fallaci's vote count, although the word "overhaul" used as it was would normally imply it having been intentional. Sicilianmandolin 21:22, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

text: You didn't really "overhaul" it. At least, probably not intentionally, anyway. I mean to say that you miscounted and therefore concluded the vote on inaccurate information. As it stands, given the lack of voters, the outcome probably would have remained the same anyway. Which brings me to my above point that if we're going to create a vote, we should involve more people and lay out some more guidelines. Personally, the image looks fine now. I don't really care, either way. Sicilianmandolin 21:14, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I actually thought that a fast vote would be perfered due to the fact that the changes will be done quickly. I just already saw votes on Wikipedia that took a long time, infact, so long that no one have actually done what the vote decided. But, you have a point, and if there will a big number of people opposing to what is the image now offcourse i'll not ignore the fact and re-open the topic. M.V.E.i. 21:20, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

text: She was not racist or facist, i remind you she fought against facists as a partisan. About her opinions, saying the truth about Islam doesn't make her racist. She said the the groth of Islam is dangerous, well, isn't it?? As a smart man i once read said: "yes, maybe not all the muslims are terrorists, but somehow all the terrorists are muslim". Stop with the polit-correctness. Islam is dengerous, it's a fact, the Islamic leaders scream about occuping the world. There's nothing racist in saying the truth, what we see, what really happens. M.V.E.i. 21:29, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: P.S. She recived many awards and sold millions of her books,so your personal opinion about her as a writer doesnt count. M.V.E.i. 21:40, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Having been to a predominantly Islamic country, meeting Muslims first hand, and having the tenets of Islam explained to me by genuine Muslims, I strongly disagree with that statement. Nevertheless, I'm going to avoid a meaningless political-religious debate and advocate the replacement of Fallaci by a female less contentious, such as Agnesi. Sicilianmandolin 21:37, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you meet a muslim and he smiles to you and doesn't stabb you that doesn't mean he won't do it to another man tommorow. I live in Israel, and unfortinatily, we have to many muslims. There were so many cases that a muslim killed a Jew as part of the Jihad, though he and that Jew were friends for years. That's what happens when the man takes "the word of god" to seriously. And when the number of such people grows, the more dangerous it gets. The more people fll under influence of Islam, many newcomers will try to prove themselves to be muslims more then those who were born muslims by promoting that Jihad. Same thing about any idiot who belives he get dozens of vergins if he killes not-muslims. The more fall under trhe efect of islam, the more people like that will be. And thats dangerous. M.V.E.i. 21:44, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

text: My tone is normal, i wasn't the one starting this debate. When i entered Falaci i havent even though about the muslim thing. She's a great, famous writer, she fought against the facists, she has a strong character, that's all i thought about. I wasn't the one starting this discussion, i stated my opinion and thats all (and i dont fell i need to revert myself, i only stated my opinion). M.V.E.i. 21:59, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Oh, scratch that. It's been reverted. Sicilianmandolin 22:05, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agnesi is not as famous and representetive. Cmmon, the woman stated her opinion, nothing wrong with that. M.V.E.i. 22:04, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Look, i wasn't thinking politics when entering her here. I was thinking about her being an amaizing and recognized writer, i thought of the fact she was a partisan, i thought of her strong true character. She has an opinion, well? Everybody has it. M.V.E.i. 22:08, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Cant we stay objective and keep Fallaci because of the resons she was puted in in the first place? And i dont think you could find a free image of Madonna. M.V.E.i. 22:14, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You don't see Richard Wagner amongst the German people article's ethnicity template for a reason. At this point, you're the only one actively advocating for Fallaci, yet you continue to revert. Clearly, the majority of us feel that neutrality has been breeched (yet you continue to revert), so it would seem that this is more about the perceived authority of your own opinions than anyone else's, Fallaci's and about 3 other people involved in this discussion, included. Sicilianmandolin 22:16, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I reverted only one time and that's because i wanted to hear more people. I see my efforts are useless so, feel free to revert. M.V.E.i. 22:21, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Why would you need to revert the edit in order to hear more people? The consensus was that Fallaci should be removed, so I removed her, and replaced her with Agnesi. In no way would that close the debate. If you're still troubled over everything, then feel free to call a vote. Until then, I think the Agnesi version should remedy. Sicilianmandolin 23:25, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I strongly disagree with that move of replacing Fallaci, but anyway, since you've all decided, there's nothing i can do. Nevertheless, i already created a license-dicription page for the new version you uploaded. You can see it here. M.V.E.i. 22:34, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Thank you for producing the license information. Sicilianmandolin 23:25, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No problem :-) Anytime you need help with that when you create an image you can call me. M.V.E.i. 17:41, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Famous Italians

message: I moved the article from Italian people to Italians. I did it due to the fact that most ethnic-group articles, for example Russians, Ukrainians, Armenians... write their name in one word. The only once who dont write it in one word are those who can't (English people cant be said Englishs, French people cant be said Frenchs). M.V.E.i. 18:43, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That makes sense. Don't worry; no objections here. ;) Sicilianmandolin 21:56, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And here on the talk page i added up here a template of the Italy WikiProject (a little beurocracy needed to be done :-)). M.V.E.i. 10:15, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Moved page name

message: I mean, I perfectly know who Maria Montessori and Maria Gaetana Agnesi are, but could you say the same of most people over here?
Are those women the first Italians people think of?
Are they more famous than Puccini or Machiavelli or Verdi or Pavarotti or Dante or Federico Fellini?
Let's face the truth, they were added just because it was political uncorrect tho show 8 men and no women.
The criterion should be how much they are famed, not if they are men or women, northern Italian or southern Italian, blu eyed or brown eyed, tall or short and whatever... --89.97.35.70 15:14, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, if you look at the discussion above- you will see international participation- it is NOT an "american" thing... It is the right thing. This is about Italians, not famous Italians. Bringing some light to two or three women represents the balance of the Italian people. It is not so much political correctness as it is about presenting a true flavour of the people this article represents. Mariokempes 22:23, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why two world famous Italian men were replaced with two complete unknow Italian women? 

message: I’m sick and tired of the stupid stereotype about the italians : they are africans...they are dark...
they have curly hair... and other idiocy , i hope these maps change your mind
MAP OF HAIR BLONDISM IN ITALY (PURE BLOND NOT LIGHT BROWN) BY R.BIASUTTI
http://aycu37.webshots.com/image/38316/2003631590295084685_rs.jpg
MAP OF PIGMENTATION HAIR AND EYES IN EUROPE :
http://aycu29.webshots.com/image/39908/2003854802501020027_rs.jpg
This is a study of italians by Carleton S. Coon 
     TRAIT       NORTH SOUTH
   Hair Blondism  15%  6%*  
   Brown Hair     40%  48%
   Black Hair     25%  30%
   Eye Blondism  65%  56%  = (Blue,Green,Hazel eyes)
   Brunet Skin  ~50%  >50%  
   Average Height  168 cm  165 cm  (in modern day 176,9 cm 174,8 cm)
   Cephalic Index **  83.5  79  
* Red and reddish-brown hair shades were observed in an additional 16% of this sample.
** Above 81 is in the Alpine-Dinaric range, and below 76 in the Mediterranean range.
::Unfortunately these stereotypes of Italians do exist. If you look at the maps however, the majority of Italian-Americans and Italian-Canadians come from the areas of Italy where the vast vast majority have dark hair, eyes, and brunet skin, which is Sicily and the Calabrian peninsula, where as a very very small minority come from the fairer northern parts of Italy, hence the stereotypes of Italians.
::I am a minor historian and study genetics, and Italian people share many physical and genetic characteristics of the French which I find very interesting considering their is no "ethnic" stereotype of them, but it does not really matter. I mean, all European groups in North America are all intermingling, so what is an Italian these days anyway; half German? half Irish? half English? Besides, these stereotypes dont exist in Europe anyway! But I understand what you are saying! Galati (talk) 17:40, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Galati: I don't contest your argument, but your facts are not quite right. Agreed most Italo Americans came from agrarian southern Italy (including Naples and Campania, Puglia and Abruzzi- not just Calabria and Sicily). In Canada, Italian immigration was more recent than the US (heaviest 1940s to about 1970) and it is much closer to an even split between northern and southern. I understand the same is true of Australia. Most of the northern Italian Canadians are from the agricultural parts of the Veneto and Friuli which, until the 1960s, were large contributors to the Italian diaspora. The common denominator north or south is origins from rural or semi-rural villages. Mariokempes (talk) 01:18, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Ya, like Galati said, only in America they talk like that. In Latin America stereotypes of Italians dont exist there either. I find this frustrating too!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.36.78.7 (talk) 23:52, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Maps Blondism & Pigmentation in Italy