Talk:List of Welsh people

message: Saint Patrick: Welsh or Scottish?  It's a bit inappropriate to use either term really.  Saint Patrick lived before the Scots and English invaded Britain.  So the use of the words Scotland and England in the St Patrick article is inappropriate.  At that time it was just Britain.  So St Patrick is best described as British in my opinion. -- Derek Ross
What about Catherine Zeta-Jones?  -- Paul Klenk
Not to mention Charlotte Church.Godofredo29 (talk) 00:30, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: [Untitled]

message: Who exactly is this person and what is the nature of his Welsh connections? Soccer or American football? Flapdragon 17:29, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Jesse T Williams played for Middlesbrough in the 30's or 40's.
According to an entry on a guestbook (about all I could find on Google) it was 1924-1927. Perhaps not Wales's most famous son. Flapdragon 16:14, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jesse T Williams 

message: Colin Jackson (born 1967), star hurdler.
I cannot remember Jackson hurdling any stars, just ordinary hurdles. Quite a feat if we are talking celestial bodies here!!! Or maybe he was jumping over other famous people? Or perhaps star shaped hurdles? Do we have a reference? Alun 16:45, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Colin Jackson

message: Bertrand Russell now has two entries on this page, one under scientists and one under philosphers. Any opinion as to whether one of the entries should be removed? Nigel45 11:23, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Bertrand Russell

message: British Diplomat, currently UK Ambassador to the UN? This might require a new category.
:"Other notables". -- Arwel (talk) 14:28, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sir Emyr Jones-Parry 

message: Does anyone have any details for this person? Would seem to be one for deletion from this page.
Nigel45 22:01, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dafydd Roberts rugby player 

message: I was just curious as to why Jimmy Page is on the list, since his profile says he was born and raised in England. 
*Seems like one to remove.  Nigel45 09:01, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page 

message: Jack O'Lantern has taken to deleting red-linked people from this list on the grounds that "without articles, there's no way for the Wiki community to judge whether or not these people are notable. Besides, there were only something like 5-10 names". I notice from his user page that Jack is a 19 or 20 year old American, therefore may not have heard of these people, but that's no grounds for deleting links which might inspire people to write new articles - indeed, when I first came to Wikipedia 3½ years ago red links were positively encouraged to generate new entries, and I'm unaware of any policy changes since then. The people in question are:
*Rachel Preece - minor actor, but she has an IMDB entry
*Roger Moss - sculptor (Artcymru), (Nat. Ctr. for Product Design & Development Research)
*Ryan James - harpist / composer 
*Jamie Stanfield - musician
*David Rees-Thomas - composer
*Seth Joshua - Revivalist preacher - published biography
*Lord Brian Flowers - physicist. Even I'd heard of him. Google on Lord Flowers produces 9500 entries, many being Hansard records of his contributions in Parliament.
*Ceri Griffiths - judo Brighton Uni SU - full colours winner 1998
*Thomas Stephens - historian / critic.  We did have an article on him, which was vandalised on 10 July, then carelessly deleted on 11 July as "total nonsense". Restored.
*Arthur Lloyd James - phonetician quoted in a paper on British non-dialectic accents.
*Sir Emyr Parry-Jones - current UK permanent representative at the UN. Not notable???!
OK, so some of these people may not be very famous, but the majority of them are. I say restore the red links. -- Arwel (talk) 19:12, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, red links don't really help the reader, do they? All they see is a name and no way (within Wikipedia) to get any more info on the person. Also, it's hard to figure out who is notable because the person has no Wiki entry and there is no way for the Wiki community to decide if they are notable or not. A constant argument is that red links should be there because they encourage people to write articles about them. The flip-side of it - not having red links encourages someone to write the article, so the person can be included in the list!:) But since the red linked don't have a Wikipedia entry, how do we know that they more notable then other Welsh who are not included? Mad Jack 19:16, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As for the individual people, Rachel Preece is a really minor actress whose article may well be deleted if created, not sure. A bunch of Google matches for various different Roger Mosses. A bunch of various Seth Joshuas on Google. Same for Brian Flowers. As for "Emyr Parry-Jones", he only has 4 pages worth of Google matches! See, the majority of these are really "iffy" and it's hard to figure out how notable they are. Mad Jack 19:22, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Red links 

message: Griff Rhys Jones is surely as famous a comedian / actor as any Welshman, born Cardiff.
88.107.66.93 23:45, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Griff Rhys Jones 

message: Would it be feasable to create a list of Welsh Nobles? What I mean is a current list of Welsh titles and their current holders?Drachenfyre 06:30, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Welsh Nobles 

message: Does anybody know which of these people are from either Wrexham or north east wales. It is for another article i am trying to get above start class but it is a long list so i thought this way might be easier. You can leave a message for me by clicking my name. Thanks. The ones I know of already are tim vincent (blue peter) and Rhys Ifans (twin town) wicked film that. Anyway any one with any more of them shrooms give us a click ty Delighted eyes 00:52, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  North and South 

message: I want to create a new article for a Welsh photographer.  Where should I list this ?  Is it possible to create a new 'role' type for photographer in the list ? --Darren Wyn Rees 17:18, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photographer ?

message: Harold Lowe was a Welsh Officer on the Titanic and the only person to, after escaping in a lifeboat, row back and pick up survivors (Four men, one later died). Is he a candidate for addition? 84.45.134.188 (talk) 22:40, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Harold Lowe 

message: The changes made to this page whereby alphabetical lists of politicans and other groups have been hived off into categories means that many individuals who were born in Wales but were successful elsewhere in the world have now been lost from view. It is appropriate for politicians in Wales to be identified by means of category but we've lost key historical figures such as Sir Samuel Griffiths and Francis Lewis who attained their pre-eminence overseas. Does anyone else have any views on the subject? Nigel45 (talk) 14:04, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Welsh Politicians 

message: We could do with some sources on this article. --John (talk) 14:27, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  WP:V 

message: The article begins "This list of Welsh people is a list of notable Welsh people". Shouldn't it then be renamed List of notable Welsh people? Jack forbes (talk) 08:59, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It wouldn't stop people adding themselves, sadly. To add oneself to a list like this, one would already have an inflated sense of self importance and consider oneself notable. I had a look at some of the pages on the List of people by nationality and they don't make the distinction 'notable'. So, by convention, it should remain unchanged. You could argue that one is notable simply by being Welsh (or Scottish) :)  but the unwritten rule seems to be that if there is an article on someone, they are notable enough to be on this article, which seems fair enough to me. Daicaregos (talk) 10:04, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Dai, you've found me out.I asked to be included in the roll of honor at the List of Scots article. I see your point concerning convention so even though my inflated sense of self importance tells me I'm right I'll let it go. :) Jack forbes (talk) 10:18, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shouldn't the article name be changed to reflect the content? 

message: A WP:BOLD edit (removing the unsourced tag - "This article does not cite any references or sources.") made yesterday has been reverted by an anon IP. So in the spirit of WP:BRD - this is the D bit. Lists of people do not tend to have citations, which would more that double the size of the article and make it far too cumbersome, leaving sourcing for the linked articles. For example, of these lists from around the world List of Canadians, List of Chinese people, List of Filipinos, List of French people, List of Latvians, List of Pakistanis, List of Somalis, only the List of Pakistanis has any references and these relate to redlinks only. We seem to have four choices: #1 Provide sources for each entry; #2 Leave the tag as it is and expect all the entries to be deleted; #3 Remove the tag by consensus #4 Redefine the list's criteria to, say, 'This is a list of Welsh people notable enough to have a Wikipedia article.' Thoughts please, Daicaregos (talk) 09:24, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: No.3 would seem to be the obvious choice. References should only have to be provided in a list where there is reasonable doubt, or where a particular entry is likely to be challenged. It's far too easy for drive-by taggers to ask for refs and then to move on. Challenge individual entries by all means, but I would be in favour of removing the blanket tag.   ♦ Jongleur100 ♦ talk 15:40, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations 

message: Writers under this sub-heading meeds quite a sort through. Many are certainly Welsh. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:03, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  People born outside Wales regarded as Welsh 

message: It may be better to replace the players listed under 'Rugby players' with:  That article has over 1000 players listed. Non-capped and women rugby players could still be listed here. Any objections? Daicaregos (talk) 11:54, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rugby players 

message: Does anyone have a view as to whether any other sections could/should be moved to their own article? Listings of 'Actors', 'Musicians' and 'Footballers' each seem numerous enough to have their own separate page. Daicaregos (talk) 11:53, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This list is very poor indeed and would be better deleted, there is no detail that is additional to the category welsh people. I suggest deletion or at least individual citations and a comment for each as to the degree of welshiness they have and a comment explaining that - eg - john Williams lives in France but his mother was born in Cardiff and his father was a minor from Cllydd (27) Off2riorob (talk) 18:02, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. It may well be notable if his father were a "minor" [sic]. But ... it's a list. What do you expect? If you wish to propose its deletion go right ahead. But first, I look forward to reading your definitions of degrees of Welshness. Daicaregos (talk) 20:56, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I missed Cllydd [sic]. Perhaps you'd care to create an article on the place, as it's coming up as a 'red-link'. Daicaregos (talk) 21:00, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Main article: 

message: * - dubious nation status and there is no such thing as a welsh passport
I see my addition to help explain about what welsh people really means has been removed - I think it clearly needs to be explained that as a nation they have no specific rights - they have British rights and most of the people in this list are also British and have British passports - its a reality that readers would benefit from understanding what they are reading. Off2riorob (talk) 23:06, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: They have many rights, thanks. The right to vote for a Welsh Assembly Member, the right to free medical prescriptions, the right to education in the medium of Welsh, etc, etc. They also have all the British rights as well, of course. You seem to be confusing Nationhood with Passport identity. There's no such thing as an English passport. Does that mean there is no English nation? Holding any kind of passport does not determine whether or not one is (or was) Welsh, or even English. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:33, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes there is no such thing as an English nation, at least not one that wouldn't need as much descriptive explanation as possible. Why do you support obscuring the details here, its up to you guys, but its good to explain exactly what the list is all about. Off2riorob (talk) 23:43, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Um, what's this all about? Does it mention passports? Should it? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:51, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: That would be a list without a 'reliable sources required' tag. Daicaregos (talk) 23:53, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

text: I don't want to compare, I found something I saw as misleading or detail that was missing and simply attempted to improve the explanation with a minor addition. I realize there is a lot of nationalistic contributors here so I will say good bye and leave you to it. Off2riorob (talk) 23:57, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you. Just one question: how can nationalism exist without a nation existing too? Daicaregos (talk) 23:59, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: That is the question you need to ask yourself. Off2riorob (talk) 00:02, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Um, so is it also a question to ask of National Assembly for Wales, National Library of Wales, [Wales national rugby union team]], and many more? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:17, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

text: Didn't Welsh Nationalism got privatised by a Tory government back in the 80s? But so glad there's still a Welsh Passport Office in Newport, (.. or is there?) Martinevans123 (talk) 00:06, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Please, your POV is irrelevant to me and is likely also detrimental to the improvement of this article , please consider a WP:NPOV and WP:OWN and such like. Off2riorob (talk) 00:15, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

text: Could someone plesae explain why the start of this article and the start of this one are so different to the start of this one? Why is that template not used here? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:02, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I expanded the lead here trying to adhere to WP:LSC (“Lists should begin with a lead section that summarizes any necessary background information, provides encyclopedic context, links to other relevant articles, and makes direct statements about the criteria by which members of the list were selected.”), taking the first two paragraphs from Welsh people. But it was changed. The selection criteria need tightening up too. Daicaregos (talk) 09:43, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that seems quite sensible. But what is the rationale for giving List of English people a template which shows it as Part of a series on Lists of British people but not giving such a template to this article or to List of Scots? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:11, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: That template doesn't seem to improve the List of English people article. Nor would it improve either List of Scots or List of Welsh people. This article is in the :Category:Lists of British people, which should be sufficient for article navigation. Readers would arrive at this article to see a list of Welsh people, I can't see the point of attracting them away from this article as soon as they arrive. Any ideas how the selection criteria can be tightened up? Daicaregos 13:58, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  recent reverts

message: The current Lead needs improvement. This is a suggestion, based on MOS Lead and selection criteria: 
"This is a list of Welsh people (), an ethnic group and nation associated with Wales.
Historian John Davies argues that the origin of the Welsh nation can be traced to the late 4th and early 5th centuries, following the Roman departure from Britain, although Brythonic, Celtic languages seem to have been spoken in Wales far longer.
This list is for people of Welsh heritage and descent, and for people otherwise considered to be Welsh, either through birth or adoption. Only those meeting notability criteria are included on this list."
Any comments/suggestions for improvement, please. Daicaregos (talk) 10:37, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you mean this: "This is a list of Welsh people ()", or this "This is a list of Welsh () people", or something else? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:24, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I mean "This is a list of Welsh people () ...". But it could be ""This is a list of Welsh people () ...". "Cymry" translates into English as "Welsh people" and "rhestr Cymry" translates as "list of Welsh people" (see Wicipedia). Whichever is preferred. Daicaregos (talk) 22:37, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intro 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on List of Welsh people. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090208173432/http://welshicons.org.uk/html/sport.php to http://www.welshicons.org.uk/html/sport.php
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: You mean first in a sub-Saharan language'.  Geez and Amhairic and Coptic all precede this one.--142.163.194.38 (talk) 21:50, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  David Griffiths 'first bible'