Talk:Martha Graham

message: Can someone verify for me what this statement means? 
Some critics say that even though there is little physical record of her dances, they are more memorable than her choreographic work.
Does this mean to say that there is little physical record of Martha Graham herself performing? Dancemaster 07:50, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: "Dances" vs. "choreographic work"?

message: Needs discussion of the legal battle with Ron Protas after Graham's death. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.160.65.40 (talk) 16:51, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Succession controversy

message: I almost regret adding some living but notable dancers' names.  I changed the headings of these sections because of the addition of "Lyfe Genes", which I suspect was vandalism.  I suggest that this can be avoided by adding only the names of *former* members of the company, i.e. those who are no longer dancing.Stagehand 15:05, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Dancers' names

message: The dance list is woefully incomplete, and misses all of her earlier works (20s and 30s). There is a complete list at http://marthagraham.org/resources/sub_chronology.php. It is obviously far too long for an article, and I don't know enough about Graham's dances to intelligently pare it down to a more essential and illustrative listing of her work. Could someone more versed in her works take this on? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dennis1200 (talk • contribs) 12:41, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of dances 

message: :The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 
The result of the proposal was move the page from Martha Graham (dancer) to Martha Graham, and place a specific dablink at the top of the page to deal with links for the supercentenarian. It seems clear from the link-related evidence presented that the primary topic for this title is the dancer. Dekimasuよ! 05:59, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd just finished fixing up the redirect and adding the dablink when I found this move request. I support moving this page back to its original location at the main entry. Ewlyahoocom 19:29, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

text: The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal.  Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
== Needs citation ==                       GREAT DANCER EVER
                                            MARTHA GRAHAM 
"Dr. Graham often brought his wife strawberries in the winter at a time when they were very hard to come by. The Graham children were looked after by a live-in Irish maid. They were a proper family at the upper echelon of Pittsburgh society." 
76.178.147.102 14:27, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

text: May I suggest that a more appropriate observation might have been "While a previous editor provided a fully-cited report from a major Graham scholar that her final performance ..., that scholar is incorrect.  On page 238..."  It seems to me that the autobiography reference belongs in the article, not here in the discussion.  But if De Mille (my reference) can be wrong, Graham herself (like any autobiographer) can be wrong.  A quick look at The New York Times supports the 1970-Graham date much more than the 1968-De Mille date, but that single newspaper is not conclusive.  Indeed, they quote Martha as telling an audience at the 1970 Brooklyn season that she hoped to appear onstage the following year!  In fact, it's impossible to "prove" any negative event with a single citation, isn't it? Stagehand 00:01, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Requested move

message: By looking at the wik/en Hawkins, wik/en Graham, wik/de Hawkins, and wik/de Graham articles, one gets really different pictures.  It's not that I saw specific contradictions, but what is emphasized and what's left out are so different it is a bit bewildering.   One issue in particular is Graham's alcoholism:  in the German Wik on Hawkins, that is one of two reasons given for his leaving her; in the German Wik on Graham, Hawkins is not even mentioned; in the English Wik on Graham, alcohol problems seem to appear after the divorce; in the English Wik (which, it is true, I partly wrote, using obits), there is no mention of alcohol. Can some-one work to bring all these articles more into line with each other adn what actually happened? Kdammers (talk) 06:08, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I may have time to do something here. If there is no mention of Hawkins on the German Wikipedia that is a problem I can't fix, since ny German is limited to a few, very few words.It is a problem though for sure. (olive (talk) 15:03, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If you get the wik/en articles clear, I can try to co-ordinate the German ones.  Right now, the German MG article still does not mention Hawkins, whereas the EH article says that in 1938 he was the first (male?: German is ambiguous here) dancer in her SoCD; that she fell in love with the much yuonger  Hawkins and 
lived with him for 8 yrs before they married in 1948; and that the marriage failed shortly thereafter due to her alcohol consumption (I guess a euphemism for drunkenness/alcoholism)and her hysteric collapses.  I have no idea how accurate this is or what the source is.Kdammers (talk) 05:59, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clarity across articles 

message: "and is widely considered one of the greatest artists of the 20th century" unless someone can give me some backing for that I am going to pull it (or change it to reference specifically dance). Seems a little over the top. -Hellkyte —Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.7.123.51 (talk) 14:05, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I wouldn't pull it. Its a true statement and I 'll see if I can find a source. Anyone in the dance field would likely concur with this. She is and was considered the "Mother" of modern dance and is a huge figure in the history of dance. .... I'll see if I can find something tonight or tomorrow. Thanks (olive (talk) 22:02, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I can't speak for the quality of the following, but here is support for the assertion:  http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/47790.Martha_Graham; www.ballet.co.uk/dcforum/happening/6550.html; www.observer.com/node/46031?observer_most_read_tabs_tab=2 ; www.bookrags.com/Martha_Graham; www.jgames.co.uk/title/Martha_Graham : www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/syltguides/fullview/R2NHXUAQTOHLF — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kdammers (talk • contribs) 03:09, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Innapropriate line

message: I had written long sections of the Martha Graham page a while back only to return and discover that some vandal or vandals had erased virtually everything I had so carefully contributed.  Special thanks to those irresponsible people who make contributing to Wikipedia an exercise in futility. Cjboffoli (talk) 07:04, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Despicable Vandalism

message: This article is linked to from a doodle. Apparently Google are releasing a doodle every other day.Pm master (talk) 04:04, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: yes, and it sucks. Especially when Google abuses its doodles for blatant pro-USA propaganda. Doodles should be made for the entire MANKIND, because Google is used world-wide! 93.219.163.105 (talk) 05:24, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Google Doodle 

message: I have tagged this page with Template:Puffery as parts of it are written in an aggrandizing style that is uncommon for Wikipedia biographies.  Passages such as "Graham was a galvanizing performer, a choreographer of astounding moves. She invented a new language of movement, and used it to reveal the passion, the rage and the ecstasy common to human experience." sound much more like a point-of-view article rather than an encyclopedic one.  --Cmuratori (talk) 05:09, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Puffery 

message: Please change "mesmerizing brilliance " to "talent" because this article is marked as wikipuffery meaning words like "Greatest, best, brilliant, wonderful, talented, perfect etc. should be avoided". I can tell she is a well respected figure but it is important to make the article neutral/ unbiased. Thank you.
76.88.145.207 (talk) 05:41, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Stickee (talk) 12:28, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request from 76.88.145.207, 11 May 2011 

message: مارتا گراهام
مارتا گراهام یک رقصنده و طراح رقص آمریکایی بود و خیلی ها اورا پایه گذار رقص نوین آمریکا می دانند و تاثیر او بر رقص را با تاثیر استراوینسکی در موسیقی یا پیکاسو در نقاشی یا فرانک لوید رایت در مهندسی مقایسه میکنند
گراهام یک رقصنده قدرتمند و یک طراح رقص بی نظیر و بود. او زبان تازه ای از حرکات موزون را پایه نهاد و از آن برای بروز شوق و شوری که در انسان نهفته است استفاده کرد
او بیش از هفتاد سال به رقصندگی و طراحی رقص پرداخت و در این مدت اولین رقصنده ای بود که در کاخ سفید دست به اجرا زد، او همچنین اولین رقصنده ای بود که به عنوان سفیر فرهنگی به خارج کشور سفر کرد و همینطور اولین رقصنده ای که بالاترین مدال افتخار کشور آمریکا را به نام مدال آزادی از آن خود کرد
در طول زندگیش افتخارات بیشماری از جمله گرفتن کلید شهر پاریس گرفته تا تاج ارزشمند ژاپن را کسب کرد
مارتا گراهام در النی پنسیلوانیا در سال 1894 متولد شد. پدرش جرج گراهام نوعی روانپزشک بود. آقای دکتر گراهام متعلق به نسل سوم ایرلندی تبارانی بود که به آمریکا مهاجرت کرده بودند و مادرش جین بیرز بود. با توجه به درآمدی که از راه پزشکی داشتند آنها زندگی سطح بالایی را تجربه میکردند. تا آنجا که دکتر گراهام حتی در زمستان هم برای همسرش توت فرنگی میاورد.
بچه های خانواده گراهام توسط یک پرستار ایرلندی الاصل نگهداری میشدند. آنها یک خانواده طبقه بالا در پیتزبرو محسوب میشدند. گرچه شرایط اجتماعی زندگی مارتا باعث دسترسی او به علم و دانش میشد اما به عنوان دختر بزرگ یک پزشک ، در نظر گرفتن هنر برای آینده، برای او بسیار مشکل مینمود
در سال 1926 مرکز رقص معاصر مارتا گراهام ساخته شده. یکی از شاگردان این مرکز بتزابی روتچایلد بود که بعد ها با مارتا دوست صمیمی شدند. وقتی روتچایلد به اسرائیل رفت و موسسه رقص بتزاوی را در سال 1965 تاسیس کرد. گراهام مدیر موسسه شد و اولین نسل رقصنده های موسسه را تربیت کرد و به طراحی رقص برای موسسه پرداخت
در سال 1936 او یکی از معروف ترین کارهایش را به نام کرونیکل(تاریخچه) عرضه کرد که خیلی ها آنرا شروع عصری نوین در رقص معاصر آمریکا میدانند. این رقص مسائل مهم را به شکل دراماتیکی به روی صحنه اورد که حاصل تاثیر شگرف بحران بزرگ بازار بورس وال استریت و دوران افسردگی بزرگ آن زمان و انزوا بود که هم بر روی صحنه خودش را نشان میداد هم بر روی لباس های رقصنده ها. در سال 1948، گراهام با اریک هاکینگز(یکی از رقصنده های موسسه) ازدواج کرد که 15سال از خودش جوانتر بود. گرچه گراهام به ازدواج به عنوان یک اصل معتقد نبود اما بعد از هشت سال زندگی با هاکینگز متوجه شد که ازدواج قدم مناسبیست
بزرگترین کار او به نام کلایتمنسترا در سال 1958 ساخته شد و با  اجرای موسیقیدان معروف مصری هلیم الداب همراه بود. او همینطور با آهنگسازانی چون ارون کاپلند لوئیس هورست، ساموئل باربر، ویلیام شومن، کارلوس سوریناک، نورمان دلو جوجو و جیان منوتی همکاری کرد. مادر گراهام در سال 1958 در سانتا باربارا فوت کرد. باسابقه ترین دوست و همکار موسیقی دانش لوئیس هورست در سال 1964 فوت کرد. گراهام در مورد هورست میگفت “او گرچه دوستی دلسوز و فهیم بود اما ایمان او بود که به من انگیزه ادامه کار رو میداد. بدون اون من مطمئناً در این راه گم میشدم”
گراهام در واقع از اصطلاح رقص مدرن متنفر بود و اصطلاح رقص معاصر رو ترجیح میداد. او معتقد بود مفهوم مدرن مدام در حال تغییر است و نمیتوان به چیزی اطلاقش کرد
گراهام در بیشتر دوران کاری خود از عکس گرفتن یا فیلم گرفتن از کارهای خود جلوگیری میکرد. او معتقد بود اجرا فقط باید زنده و بر روی صحنه باشد و نه جور دیگری. او حتی یک بار تمام خاطرات و یادداشت های خود را سوزاند تا از دیده شدن آنها جلوگیری کند. اما چند استثنایی وجود داشت، او به صورت محدود با عکاس معروف ایموجن کانینگهام در دهه 1930 و باربارا مورگان در دهه چهل همکاری داشت او همچنین فیلیپ هالزمن را به عنوان عکاس “دارک میدو” که کامل ترین مجموعه عکس کارهای او محسوب میشوند انتخاب کرد
هلزمن همینطور در دهه چهل از دیگر کارهای گراهام از جمله “لتر تو د وورلد” “کیو اف د هون” “نایت جورنی” عکاسی کرده بود
او در اواخر دهه 1960 هم به رقصندگی ادامه میداد و با کهولت سن به شکل فزاینده ای به الکل روی اورد. نسل جوانتر که افسانه های او را شنیده بودند و از اینهمه تعریفی که در مورد او شده بود تعجب میکردند. کارهایش در این مقطع مبتنی بر خودش و گروه رقصی که حول او به اجرا میپرداختند بود. علاقه گراهام به رقص باعث شد علیرغم انتقاد های منتقدین که زمان اورا گذشته میدانستن همچنان به اجرا ادامه دهد اما وقتی صدای منتقدان بیش از پیش به هوا رفت او صحنه را کنار گذاشت
آنهایی که افتخار دیدن اجرای گراهام را در سالهای جوانیش داشتند تصدیق میکنند که او یک رقصنده دقیق و فوق العاده روی صحنه بود. گرچه او همچنین یکی از مهم ترین طرح های رقص تاریخ رقص بوده و شاید حتی یکی از مهمترین هنرمندان قرن بیستم او همیشه دوست داشت که با رقص هایش به یاد اورده شود. در سالهایی که از صحنه جدا شد، گراهام دچار افسردگی عمیقی شد که ناشی از دیدن موفقیت طراحی رقص هایی بود که او طراحی کرده بود اما توسط رقصنده های جوان و یا حتی شوهر سابقش هاکینگز اجرا میشد بود. او در طولتمام این سالها برای فراموش کردن دردهای خود به الکل روی اورد
بعد از بستری شدنش در بیمارستان او در سال 1972 مشروب خوردن را کنار گذاشت و به استودیوی خودش برگشت و به طراحی بیش از ده رقص باله و … جدید پرداخت. آخرین باله کامل او در دهه 1990 بود که “مپل لیف رگ” نام داشت
او در سال 1976 برنده مدال آزادی از رئیس جمهور فورد شد
رقص های طراحی شده گراهام حتی بعد از مرگش به دلیل ذات الریه در سال 1991 در صحنه ها باقی ماند. جسد او سوزانده شد و خاکسترهای آن در کوه های کریستو بر فراز شهر نیو مکزیکو پخش شد
در سال 1998 مجله تایم رقصنده های قرن را انتخاب کرد و او را به عنوان یکی از مهمترین افراد قرن بیستم انتخاب کرد
در کتابخانه ملی نیویورک بیشترین درخواست هایی که به رقص مربوط میشوند حاوی نام مارتا گراهام است
  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.248.207.171 (talk) 05:49, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  مارتا گراهام 

message: Please delete the sentence about requests by New York public library users. Even if it were made precise enough to be meaningful and checkable, it would still be irrelevant and unimportant.
174.28.122.221 (talk) 06:14, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Already done —Tim Pierce (talk) 16:17, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request from 174.28.122.221, 11 May 2011 

message: 117.240.248.194 (talk) 12:24, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request from 117.240.248.194, 11 May 2011 

message: Is this really necessary or even encyclopedic?  The first two quotes are presented without context, seemingly in their own section because they don't belong anywhere else (and therefore arguably don't belong at all).  The rest of the quotes are just listed from publications and would likely be better off presented as part of some sort of critical reaction section.   Mbinebri  talk ← 12:52, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quote section? 

message: Google comment is very irrelevant.
Lferfga (talk) 13:16, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone removed it. CTJF83 15:25, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request from Lferfga, 11 May 2011 

message: Please remove the reference to the Google Doodle in the introduction. It is hardly a significant event related to Martha Graham's life or history.
Gmichaelshields (talk) 13:29, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone removed it. CTJF83 15:25, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request from 161.44.60.10, 11 May 2011 

message: hello - first time commenting on wiki talk page.
there are plenty of images of martha graham out there solo - is it so necessary to put one up of her with a dude? i'd like to see a picture of martha in her own right, not with some dude dancer's paws all over her. it's a page about HER, not HER AND GRABBY DUDE. you know?
182.177.14.94 (talk) 19:25, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The article uses this image because it's freely reproducible.  It's difficult to come by copyright-free photographs of people who are no longer living; if you know of some better pictures that can be used on Wikipedia, that would be great. —Tim Pierce (talk) 19:47, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: You can search sites like Flickr, Picasa etc. for any free images that can be used in the article. And either upload them to Wikimedia Commons ( http://commons.wikimedia.org ; the central media archive for Wikipedia ) and place them in the article if you can or if you find that too difficult suggest them here. The images have to be released under a free license such as the Creative Commons CC-BY-SA license which allows complete reuse. SpeakFree (talk)  19:54, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I switched the photo's in the article around. Martha Graham solo in the lead, the other in the section mentioning the 1960s. SpeakFree (talk)  20:17, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image 

message: Here's a curious sentence: "There were a few notable exceptions to her dances being taped. " Huh? There's nothing about her dances being taped before this sentence. It looks like this is a reference to some passage that has since been removed. From what follows, it looks like it was important. It should probably be restored. —MiguelMunoz (talk) 02:15, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Taped? 

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thread_title: File:Martha Graham 1948.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: Did Halston create the costumes for Persephone? John Link (talk) 17:35, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes; see: . -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 01:43, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you. I've added the appropriate credit. John Link (talk) 22:48, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Halston costumes for Persephone?