Talk:Red hair/Archive 2

message: I took out a paragraph describing a Martha Stewart show on redheads, as I don't think it added anything.  Someone else disagreed and put it back - fair enough.  But it's also (IHMO) poorly written at the moment.  Would someone care to try to improve it?  Ocicat 19:24, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Martha Stewart show bit

message: Numerous people I know with Chinese/Japanese/Korean origin have NATURAL red tint to their jet-black (from afar) hair. Is this a variant of "the ginger gene" or some other cause? It seems that most (Northern Mongoloids) have a red tint in their hair, naturally, in my experience. I am aware of the popular practice of dying hair a red tint in Asian countries, but many people have this naturally. Additional info? Shoudl this be added to the article? Chilledsunshine 21:01, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, especially a good picture. Akidd dublin•tl•ctr-l 09:01, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: East Asian red-tinted hair

message: theres also a chinese saying, refering to western people. 红须绿眼 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chinoiserie (talk • contribs) 
:What does that translate as? Hbackman 06:24, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Google translates it as "Red to green eyes."--Gandalfe 17:11, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  红须绿眼 

message: It is not only white-history that claims that muhammad had red-hair, other sources also maintain that he did, Martin Lings for example. Von Scherwins work contains most of the informataion on this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.82.48.54 (talk • contribs) 
:"According to some sources" is easy to justify with "some" references. A Google search for "Martin Lings" + "red hair" + various spellings of Muhammad comes up with eight unique hits, none of which corroborate this claim.
:chocolateboy 00:55, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Muhammad

message: "Red hair also occurs amongst people of African descent; famous African-American redheads include Malcolm X."
Whoaa- Malcolm X attributed his red hair to the fact that his grandmother (or great grandmother?) was raped by her Scottish owner. Don't quote me on that because I don't have his autobiography with me here. But I asked about that on the Malcolm X entry and someone confirmed that is in his autobigraphy. My point is - Is there ever red hair in black people from Africa that are not mixed race? Also, that is kind of a loaded sentence. I don't think you could just leave it the way it is without an explanation. IMHO --cda 17:53, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Africans 

message: I removed the reference to ginger minger as it is deeply offensive, probably racist and no longer "part of popular culture". It never was. Redheads were an easy target for lad culture on TV in the UK for a short time but broadcast guidelines now consider it offensive and its prevent. 
Similarly for wranger. Although I haven't lived in OZ for a couple of years I have never heard of this term, and no doubt its use will also disappear from TV in time. Supposedly the terms comes from comparing readheads to Orangutans. Would it be acceptable to compare a black person to an ape because they somehow resemble an ape. Definitely not. 
The popularization of such term on Wiki is deeply offensive. Would Wikipedia considered the popularization of similar offensive terms for blacks or asians acceptable? Definitely not. 
If you think this is over the top, wait till you have a red-headed child as I have and encounter people who think insulting terms like these are "smart" because they've seen them on TV or websites like this.
Shame.
*Wow. Extremely well written, anonymous. SOme of this, especially the first paragraph should go on the main page. I think it is better to instead of just deleting something, that we should document the history. I think the word nigger is on wikipedia and the historic timeline. I agree that racism against redhaired people is real ethnic racism. What, for example are you talking about UK TV. Is there something written that says "from now on no one can be racist against red-haired people"? I'd like to know about that. Maybe there should be a page just about racism against red-heads. Is there a page just about racism against black people or is it all together?--cda 00:09, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Offensive 

message: phobia: greek word, fear of something. usually it makes up compound words.
philia: greek word, love or affection of something.
it occurs, but mixing greek and english does not sound very much.
latin is more compatible (though not anyone speaks it).
for red: ruber m, rubra f, rubrum n 
-rubraphil (to charge it only to love redhead woman)
-ruberphil (does not sound)
or try japanese: red-> "aka" -> "akaphil". does not sound.
probably "akai"?
people talk in greek and latin words, but do they know their concepts, styles, views (their ancient world)?
it really helps to use a dicitonary.
i do not "hear" the word "redophil" sounding much valid.
something like "podo-phil" (no one uses it).
it sounds redo-phil (the affection/a preference to re-do something).
red-o-phil is "bad" style (something like "future-o-rama").
people should not use such contructions.
if you do not understand things: i cleared up words using a dictionary. alex 11:29, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The word is "redophile", not "redophil". It has 10,900 hits on Google. What's your point? Fnarf999 00:34, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: WOW. Feel free to use it. I am not redo-phile. If i paint my hairs red (not coloring them red), using real paint, this speaks on its own. I do not require this term. I do not see it efficient to edit this article anymore. redo-phile: the philia to redo something. ME NOT. It does not belong to (the) weasley article. Probably i remove it from there, when someone adds it. Because, thank of you, good grief, i can call it non-sense, and un-related vandalism. Akidd dublin•tl•ctr-l 16:34, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  You miss my point again. I have no opinion on whether "redophilia" belongs in this article or not. I don't care one way or the other. I was merely pointing out that the justification YOU give for YOUR objection is based on a misunderstanding and a spelling error: you googled for the wrong word when you did your research. That's why you got so few hits; you spelled the word wrong. Please refrain from editing this article. Fnarf999 17:22, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  phobia/philia - some word clearing required 

message: *Tomato 
*Redhead 
*Ginger 
Hello red-heads. How do you feel about these terms? Any other friendly words? Do you see this list "vandalism/offensive"? alex 16:02, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The specific vandalism I referred to was your claim that 'ginger' is used as a nickname for the Gaiety Theatre on South King Street in Dublin, Ireland.  Not only is that not true but it is entirely irrelevant in an article on red hair.  That said, the edit you are talking about here issuperfluous.  We already mention that 'redhead' and 'ginger' are nicknames and I dispute the use of 'tomato' which you did not cite.  I'm also going to remove your NPOV tag because you have not mentioned your reasoning here.  --Yamla 16:35, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Huh? What does rottentomatoes.com have to do with red hair? No one is suggesting that "tomato" is not a word; it's just not a word REFERRING TO RED HAIR. Fnarf999 00:36, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Nicknames for people with red/orange hair

message: Is not it more the usage "something is ginger", which means queer, somehow, or dubious (like a unserious contract)?
I do not believe that cockney calls "redhead" people "ginger", to outline their membership to a special population group (i.e. one which is frequents bars).
The article gives this idea.
It requires to consult someone how knows cockney, to verify it.
I believe cockney says "this is ginger to me", and it does not have any reference to "redhead" people.
:Well, I must say this is more likely than your contention that "ginger" refers to a specific building in Ireland.  Nevertheless, you raise a good point.  It is entirely possible that the term, "ginger", does not refer to either gay people or a building in Ireland.  Regardless, neither have anything to do with red hair and so I will remove the reference.  --Yamla 14:41, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  cockney slang 

message: I removed a link that I found to be not working. Just letting you know.Cjflash 03:14, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Removal of link

message: I changed the picture of the redheaded dude, it was more Auburn.  Instead I have put in a picture of a man with very red ginger hair.  Fnarf999 changed it back to my annoyance, he clearly hasnt got a clue. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Edgovan20 (talk • contribs) 
:Be civil, please. Editors can have a difference of opinion on things like this without being clue-impaired. Auburn and "ginger" are both shades of red, and it's a judgment call which is the better image. Since it's your picture we're debating, maybe your annoyance comes from taking this a little personally?
:Also, please add comments at the bottom of the page, not the top. · rodii · 01:32, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I've reverted the picture back - the editors here need to talk this out on the talk page rather than playing revert tennis. Settle on a consensus on the images THEN change them - Peripitus 10:21, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps you have misunderstood. The picture is unattractive that is not-aesthetically pleasing. This is not a slight on the subject but on the composition and overall impression the picture gives. The older picture is clearer and better illustrates the subject of the article - Peripitus 12:15, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not "your friend," it's you, and the only thing you've contributed to Wikipedia is to plant pictures of you on various pages--and none of them are really satisfactory images for the articles they're in. I don't like either picture, actually, but the older one is definitely better to illustrate red hair. For one thing, there's only one person in it, so there's no potential confusion. It's also more of a closeup, so more detail is visible. · rodii · 11:45, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Your intent was clear. --Yamla 18:14, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. I made the original revert. The substituted picture by Edgovan20 was a very blatant vanity pic of some dudes sitting on a couch, nyuk nyuk nyuk. I have no attachment to the original picture but it at least clearly shows red hair in an unambiguous way. My actual preference would be to get rid of it altogether; I think there are quite enough pictures of redheads here to get the point across. What I don't understand is why such a seemingly innocuous article as this should attract so much flamebait, hostility, posing, and sheer lunacy. For some reason most of the people who flock to this page have only harm in mind. We've had all this argument about the pictures before when people were arguing about which girl in which picture was "hotter". This is pathetic behavior. Please leave your personal vanity OUT of the project. \ Fnarf999 \ talk \ contribs \ 22:08, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

text: See my thoughts on this at User talk:Angr#redhairedguy.jpg. In brief, I consider it a violation of NPOV to have more pictures of women than men in articles on physical appearance. This is the reason I added redhairedguy.jpg to this article in the first place. If you want to remove both of these images, then by NPOV one of the women should go as well. Angr (talk) 22:49, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Changing of picture

message: Why do you keep deleting Maureen O'Hara who was known and admired for her luxurious red hair and was perhaps the first Hollywood beauty to be praised for her Natural red mane and dubbed the "Queen of Techicolour" because of it, she belongs specifically on this page as a Hollywood Legend and Icon, she is embedded in American Film culture and her image will continue as long as film is preserved she was and is a role model for redheads particulalrly given that there is a unfounded opinion that redheads or "ginger mingers" as they are soemtimes referred to today are not attractive people. 86.12.253.32 21:53, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it's okay the way it is now, with just her name. The previous versions had a little too much gushing enthusiasm to be really NPOV. Angr (talk) 22:01, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

text: That's a shame, redheads are very well thought of over here.  There's no problem with listing O'hara in the article but to note that she is the epitome of redhaired beauty is simply too much POV to stay.  Anyway, I think the compromise that seems to have been reached is to allow her name to stay without the adjectives.  I hope that's okay.  --Yamla 22:46, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Okay, agreed but I still beleive that an article about redheads that includes "famous redheads" and then lists the group that are there in the paragraph - none of which (except O'Hara) are known  specifically for their red hair was not appropriate and in fact soem oftheose listed perpetuate the idea that redheads are "ugly".  Yes unfortunately in the UK redhair is less than desirable and I was amazed that in America it is almost prized, I think it may have something to do with it being associated with irish and Scottish descent - and Irish and Scots Americans are very very proud and protective of their heritage even if it was 5 or 6 generations back and red hair may be a badge of pride when it turns up. But seriously in the UK the abuse that redheads take from jokes and general public comments would not be allowed against any other individual - you would not be allowed to make fun of someone because they are black or jewish or chinese or disabled or any other specific visible physical trait - yet redheads are fair game and it perpetuates the dislike of the hair colour even among children. They call it Ginger and rarely use the term redhead. My maternal family are all redheads and my paternal grandmother was a redhead - I am originally from Ireland living in the UK I have 6 children 4 of which are redheads and they all hate it, yet when we go back to Count Cork or when we visit New York they are happier because they are not ridiculed as they are here in the UK. 86.12.253.32 23:48, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Red Heads in Popular Culture / Maureen O'Hara

message: Oh, come on. Is there any reason for this to be in here? I'm going to strongly recommend this section be clipped. 198.20.40.50 22:29, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, this shouldn't be here.--cda 22:59, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed it. I can't believe this was ever included. 72.139.185.19 19:43, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Sorry dude, but you simply cannot apply statistics, "biases," and "scientific principles" to things such as this that clearly aren't scientific.  It is clear that ideas such as these cannot be understood or even measured by science, so you look like a total buffoon when you try to brush it all aside with figures and percentages and 'rationally' explain it away as not statistically verifiable.  Your answer sounds contrived, empty, and pathetic, a spouting of numbers and arcane theories meant to confound/confuse (or even intimidate) rather than enlighten someone reading this.  Shame on you.  --64.12.116.131 11:52, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Mars influence

message: I removed the following sentences from the “Historical Distribution” section:
Viking invaders, who later founded Dublin  and York, had a significant amount of redheads among them. The Celts had predominatly red hair.  The Normans, being descended from Scandinavians that settled in France, who invaded in the 11th and 12th centuries, also had a substantial number of redheads.
The referenced links did not substantiate any of these statements, and there seems to be no proof other than “these were some groups of people that immigrated to Ireland and Scotland” + “Ireland and Scotland currently have the highest proportion of red hair” = “these groups had substantial numbers of redheads”. What about the other groups that inhabited these areas e.g. Picts? In any case, it is unlikely that the Celts had predominately (i.e. greater than 50%) red hair since no modern group has more than 13% redheads. 
Fionah 08:36, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Vikings, Celts and Normans

message: Does anyone know of any research that could verify my hypothesis that red hair is MUCH more common amongst Sephardic Jews than among the Ashkenazim (who often have black and/or very dark brown hair).  This often applies to men's beards too, such as the person may not be a FULL redhead but still has some trace elements of red in their hair and/or beard.  These same people also often seem have lighter colored eyes than Ashkenazi Jews (whose eyes are often brown or darker in color). Has anyone else noticed this red-headed "trend" amongst the Sephardic population?  Thanks for the info!  --205.188.112.149 07:41, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Red Hair More Common Amongst '''Sephardic Jews'''? 

message: today i found this information (previously the article included information about various meanings of "ginger").
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/jazz
1. Music
2. Slang. 
2.c Miscellaneous, unspecified things: brought the food and all the jazz to go with it. 
Now, my argumentation is that "ginger" may be used in a similar way, without explanation of possible meanings. By the way it has nothing to do with that music style, it is called analogy.
I do not know if (and how) it makes sense to include that information into the article.
User:Yy-bo 14:00, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  language usage "ginger" 

message: That "woman at a rennaisance fair" looks very like Sarah Ferguson (ex-wife of Prince Andrew of England). I seem to remember that the royal family did an "It's a Royal Knockout" program some years ago where they all dressed in medieval costumes and played games to raise money for charity. Maybe the photo came from this program, or maybe the woman just looks like "Fergie".
Fionah 08:34, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photograph in header - Sarah Ferguson 

message: :Category:Red haired kings hope you do not just delete it. User:YBO 23:58, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New category