Talk:John Newton

message: A very interesting and illuminating piece of information about Wilberforce's call - thanks for adding this. Do you have a source for this quotation? - I would be interested to know. – Agendum 22:51, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Newton's advice for Wilberforce 

message: The point about John Newton's time as a slave trader, and the reason that I have reverted edits by 71.226.193.19 is that these are important stages in his journey from an 'infidel and libertine' to a Christian preacher. This has been researched, the sources being the article by D. Bruce Hindmarsh in the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography and Bury the Chains by Adam Hochschild. It is especially important that he is accurately quoted (according to his own epitaph) as having been a 'servant of slaves in Africa' – Agendum 21:23, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Slave trader 

message: I just changed the link for "Evanglical revival" in the section about his conversion to Christianity to link to the First Great Awakening article instead of the Revivalism article, because the Revivalism article doesn't have very much information in it about the Great Awakening.  I could see an argument for leaving it linked to Revivalism, though, if Revivalism were expanded and cleaned up.  I don't have the expertise to do so, though.  Just thought I'd leave a note in case someone wanted to change the link here back at some point. faithx5 15:52, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Great Awakening 

message: So, if he was previously not a Christian, what was he? — coelacan talk — 22:02, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  conversion? 

message: I think the term 'Christian minister' would be more appropriate to an evangelical clergyman of Newton's persuasion than 'Christian priest', and have changed the sub-heading back again – Agendum 13:05, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Christian minister 

message: By whom? – Agendum 22:07, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ive not been able to find any biased POV accounts in this article  Tired of people tagging NPOV without expressing reasoning behind it--Csodennc 18:48, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Then, we remove it - alright? Does anyone disagree? – Agendum 22:03, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Went ahead and did it.  If someone wants to tag again, please state your concerns with the article.  Thanks --Csodennc 23:56, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality disputed 

message: The last paragraph under Anglican priest appears to be oddly un-Wikipedia like in content and placement and has the distinct feel of an encyclopedia or book opening paragraph. This paragraph begins with the sentence “John Newton (1725–1807) captained two Liverpool slave ships in his twenties and kept detailed logs of his voyages.” This wording was added 15:56, 14 January 2008 by 81.1.123.107. The use of birth-death dates in parentheses and describing in summary highlights of his life already covered are at odds with the balance of the article. I performed several searches using common search engines and could NOT find an exact match from another resource at this time, however I would like to get others opinion whether this paragraph should be left as-is, edited to flow better with the rest of the article, or deleted as a suspected copyright violation. Thank you. Civilengtiger (talk) 20:07, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Potential copyright violation

message: I have deleted the section "final years" as all it contained was the false statement that John Newton never married.  In fact he was very happily married to Mary nee Catlett (known as Polly) from 1750 until her death in 1790.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.51.159.237 (talk) 21:56, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The vandal blanked previous content before pasting his/her POV.  I've restored the original content.  It's not sourced, but at least it's a place to start. --Robert Keiden (talk) 01:20, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Final years 

message: I'm not sure that "Portrayals in literature, movies and other media" is a suitable section for a serious article. It may be better under a "Trivia" subhead. What do others think? – Agendum (talk) 20:46, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the content there, and in the "Commemoration" section above should be massively revised and/or elimanted.  See WP:TRIVIA.  There is good room to write a section on later views of Newton, if an editor takes the time to find sources about later views of Newton, rather than engage in original research by analyzing themselves such later views.  GRBerry 17:39, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question 

message: The text says “Clowe took Newton to the coast of and gave him to his wife Princess Peye, an African duchess.” Where is the evidence for these statements? 
If we look at Newton’s autobiography (i), we find on page 64 that Clowe took Newton to an island off present-day Sierra Leone. There he left him in the charge of his unnamed African mistress, who was a “person of some consequence in her own country”. How, if Newton is silent about them, do we know (a) her name of Peye (b) her title of princess (c) her rank of duchess and (d) her marital status of wife?
The Lawless One (talk) 17:16, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This story must be regarded as fanciful, if only because there are no duchesses in African society.Royalcourtier (talk) 23:01, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Well unless they spoke a language derived from Latin there wouldn't be a literal "Duchess"!  The narrative is attempting to convey the equivalent position to an English speaking audience, a pretty standard thing to do up until the late 20C.  I doubt that she was called "Princess" in her own language either, but most people understand the analogy easily enough.  It in no way invalidates the story or renders it "fanciful", merely politically incorrect. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 08:29, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  A mysterious sentence? 

message: there is NO proof of John Newton having anymore than simple regret concerning the career choice that he had for the most of his working life. The idea that he was a prominent abolitionist is absurd as it has no factual backing. It should be completely edited out and perhaps a section regarding Newton's memoirs of personal regret could be applied.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.136.74.193 (talk) 07:47, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  abolitionism 

message: I enjoyed the article in general, but I see a glaring hole: John Newton was, at one point and for several years, a slave trader. It is mentioned in other categories, but not addressed directly. The other categories are all appropriate, of course. 
According to comments on this talk page, Newton spent 6-9 years trading slaves. I believe he mentioned regret for trading over 20,000 individuals - whether directly or also those who were traded due to his investing in slave trading.
Currently, I see sections on Early Life, Spiritual Conversion, Anglican Priest, Abolitionist, Writer and Hymnist.
Shouldn't this period of Newton's life, which occupied up to a quarter of his 82 years, have a separate section?
It would only take a couple of paragraphs for a basic treatment of this large part of his life. 
Kevwp (talk) 02:42, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that is a serious omission. There is some useful information in Zong by James Walvin (Yale UP, 2011), but I'm it is available elsewhere. NotFromUtrecht (talk) 19:20, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Slave Trade Years 

message: Please stop your edit warring at once.  You are both guilty of breaking the WP:3RR rule.  If you wish to discuss the two quotations come here to the talk page and leave the main page alone until consensus has been achieved.  You are both running the risk of admin action which might include blocking. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 17:10, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: One of the sources is not WP:RS. My third edit was merely a tidy up, trimming the URL. I have actually supported the addition by suggesting formatting improvements. WP:RS is a policy, so please don't warn me for enforcing that. If it is to remain, this quote still needs some kind of context/ explanation. Thanks. 20.133.0.13 (talk) 17:19, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: (Replied to on IP user's talk page) Martin of Sheffield (talk) 17:30, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit warring 

message: Why write "Newton did not however immediately renounce working in the slave trade". What is the purpose of this sentence? Newton was actively involved in the slave trade for many years. The sentence appears in the middle of accounts of his career. There is no reason for even suggesting that he would renounce the work he was doing. The sentence, particularly the "however" implies some reason why he would do so, but none is givenRoyalcourtier (talk) 23:03, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opposition to slavery 

message: You have both made 3 or more reverts this evening in direct contravention of WP:3RR.  Before this gets unpleasant, please come here to this talk page and argue it out here.  Pittman440: you need to provide a citation or else the claim about Newton's disbelief in African souls will continue to be reverted. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 22:03, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit warring 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I know he wrote a preface on Bunyan´s Pilgrim Progress(1776). So Can anyone add it to his writing carrer, it seems to be missing. TYTerrorwatcher (talk) 00:11, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Martin of Sheffield (talk) 09:29, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  On his Writing legacy, can you add Bunyan´s Pilgrims Progress 

message: Should the article talk more about his profits off of like a decade of the buying and selling of people of color?  Yea he changed later in life but still...... 174.47.44.231 (talk) 17:32, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Racism 

message: During this period, he also applied to the Methodists, Independents and Presbyterians. However in the period concerned (between 1755-1765) the Methodists were a movement within the Church of England, not becoming a separate, Nonconformist, denomination until after the deaths of the Wesley brothers in the 1790s, so no machinery for taking applicants for its ministry. I have therefore deleted "Methodists" from the sentence.Cloptonson (talk) 12:44, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Anachronistic statement? (section Anglican priest)