Talk:Thiruvalluvar

message: say Yes, but these things can't be just asserted. He was a very wise many, most probably a self-realized person, though this desciption is not necessary. According t him, one should know the truth irrespecive of who says it. --Aadal 16:10, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Thirukural is common to all religion, thats why it is called as Ulaga Pothu Marai. Thirukural is not talking about any religion, it just take about life style, displine, etc. Adding Tirukural into Hinduism is not appropriate. So removing this article from Religious Categories. Rajan 12:42, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thirukurral 

message: I think he was born in 1st century BCE and not AD. Isn't that the rational of Tamil Era calender being dated more than Chritian era? Thanks! Wiki San Roze talk  02:14, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: 1st century BCE or AD?

message: I dont see why this article has been tagged . I cant find any and if people do have concerns please raise them here than to leave others guessing. If there is no specific concern then why do we have to live with the tag? Cheers! ώiki Ѕαи Яоzε †αLҝ 09:14, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Weasel words?

message: This entry is getting really into shape (thanks to all the editors), but I see (in my point of view) possible OR statements in the lead. 
However, the question of whether the author of Thirukkural (Valluvan) is named after his community or vice versa remains unanswered.
In any case, Tamils consider Thiruvalluvar to be a pragmatist and thought provoker and his work is often referred to as poyyamozhi பொய்யா மொழி (words of wisdom).
Do these need to stay or can it be removed? Cheers ώiki Ѕαи Яоzε †αLҝ 09:35, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: May be it is common knowledge among Tamils... you should take a vote.  lol. Sarvagnya 03:15, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Possible original research statements

message: Thirukkural has 9310 (7 X 1330) cirs (a single Tamil word or a combination of more than one word) out of which about 99.4% are pure Tamil words (a critical reading of the Kural will reveal this) . About (at the most 0.6%) 50 words may have Sanskrit influence. Therefore the usefulness of Sanskrit in the creation of Thirukkural is nil (at the best minimal). One does not need the knowledge of Sanskrit to appreciate (or understand) the Kurals (couplets).
It is inevitable that Tamils who practice Hinduism and perhaps, Saivaism may benifit from knowing Sanskrit. Needless to say, this category of Tamils will feel happy that they know (or understand) Sanskrit. Some may even feel indebted toSanskrit. 
But, it will be unfair to hypothesize that Tamils (of all walks of life) are indebted to Sanskrit. Worse still will be, to expect all the Tamils to become indebted to it. This may surprise (if not intrigue) the Tamils who do not practice or have the exposure to Hinduism. 
However, Tamil and Sanskrit are two different and respectable entities in their own right. The interation of the two might have happened through Hinduism. Regards S.Ratnakumar 04:07, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The usefulness of ''Sanskrit''

message: Thiru is a Tamil word which (according to LIFCO Tamil-Tamil-English dictionary) has more than eight meanings. In order to justify one's point of view (or opinion) that Thiru originated from the Sanskrit Shiri it vital to cite a source for verification. The cited source (Caldwell) does not conclusively state that Thiru is originated from Shri.
The point of view that Thiru was originated from Shri introduces an argument that whether Tamils had a polite word (similar to Mr) before Sanskrit was popularized amongst them.
Therefore, either remove the sentence from the Sanskrit Shri or repharase it as  claimed to be originated from Sanskrit Shri. until the claim becomes verifiable.
Regards. S.Ratnakumar 01:17, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: On the lighter note usage of Shri and Thiru seem to be pretty different, where Shri can be used more than once together as Shri Shri but its not case with Thiru which when used together as Thiru Thiru makes funny sense. :) ώiki Ѕαи Яоzε †αLҝ 09:07, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just wondering why do we need to mention the etymology of the word "Thiru"? Just mention the meaning (something like "Thiru, a Tamil honorific"). If it is an important word that deserves an encyclopedic article (like Sri), the etymology can go there. utcursch | talk 09:28, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just realized, there is already an article on Thiru -- the etymology debate can continue there. I am removing it from this article. utcursch | talk 09:29, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Cheers! I would have thought so, but didnt want to feed the trolls to another debate. ώiki Ѕαи Яоzε †αLҝ 10:00, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The Tamil word ''Thiru'' from the Sanskrit word ''Shri''

message: Wiki Raja 09:19, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: WikiProject Dravidian civilizations

message: This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 16:20, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject class rating

message: I deleted the Uncited and Malicious content that was in the Traditional Accounts of Thiruvalluvar.
It mentioned totally unverified ideas of Dravidian caste equality, of an Aryan invasion (which is under MAJOR dispute - more and more as time goes by) and Dravidian 'purity' of Thiruvalluvar and much more. 
Not only was all of this totally uncited, it is malicious in making racial distinctions.
AND, it has logical arguments against it!
Firstly, the most pernicious instance of the caste system in Tamil society was in Northern and Eastern Sri Lanka where there were nearly 0 Brahmins. Secondly, whether or not the Aryan Invasion theory is true (with more and more evidence suggesting it was just reciprocal acculturation and NOT a biological invasion or even migration), fact remains that numerous Brahmins (Gurukals) were in Tamil Nadu during ancient Sangam times. Not only does Sangam literature mention them with past tense, many Brahmins were indeed Sangam poets as well.
The propoganda in this must be removed if Wiki has any reputation.
Thanks for writing this garbage, E.V. Ramaswami Naicker. :)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.14.224.100 (talk) 11:44, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uncited, Malicious Dravidian Aryan Commentary Deleted 

message: I note that there is no citation to the "Religion" section. I am requesting that a citation be clearly identified, or I will remove the material as unreferenced in a few days. John Carter (talk) 19:43, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Religion section 

message: There's been a big debate regarding the period of his life.
Most of the Rationale researchers beleive that his time was somewhere near 8 AD.
But our brothers are so keen in pushing his period back that they have pushed it to 100 BC , even before there was any human inhabitation in South India.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.36.135.206 (talk) 18:48, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Period of ThiruValluvar 

message: Thiruvalluvar could be from Palluvan community originally a Buddhist and made low caste in later peiods, other names of this caste are Puluvar, Pulavar, Valavar, Vellalar etc.  We know often P and V are often interchanged in Tamil and Prakrit similar to Bengal and Vangalam. Thirukkural can be seen as a Buddhist work or influenced by Buddhist teachings. It was of the period before 400AD when Tamil countries were under heavy Buddhist influence. Present days Tamils wants to  hide their Buddhist past and local dieties most have Buddhist origins. some interesting relation between Thirukural and Buddhist ideas,  The first kural with "Adi Bagwan" the origin of everything including letters, might refer to the " Adi-Buddha " The term refers to a self-emanating, self-originating Buddha present before anything else existed the term  used extensviely in many Buddhist literature of the same period. The reference of "Foot of God" while praising God refers to the Foot of Buddha, the common practice of Buddhist to pray the Buddha footprint, The Eight Characteristics can easily be related to the Noble Eight Fold Path of Buddhism. The "Irul sēr iru vinai sērā Iraivan" could refer to the middle path and "Aravali Anthanan" to " Arahant ". The Seven more rebirths mentioned in Thirukural in many verses (62,107,398,835) is clearly seen in Buddhist faith about people reborn only seven more times before attaining Nirvana.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Malarmisai (talk • contribs) 14:11, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Buddhist or Jain 

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thread_title: File:Thiruvalluvane.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: Please cite more reliable and widely accepted sources and information before claiming valluvar to be jain ( or budhist / hindu etc etc) .  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Karthikeyan.pandian (talk • contribs) 15:48, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I just deleted some references from a portal page. I assume they have something to do with this debate. (I don't mean the dlshq.org one, which was already in the article, but the other two, which were added to that one page.) —PC-XT+ 10:59, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jain Valluvar

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: T/P watchers and  A few sections of the current version of this article rely on or cites very old, non-HISTRS sources and other questionable sources such as newspapers. For example, the section titled traditional account is written out of Robinson's book of 1873, someone working with Christian missionaries (see its preface). The cited pages of the Manavalan source published in 2009 are actually a compiled reprint of 100+ year old sources such as Reverend Pope etc (Manavalan admits it in the Editorial note). Again these colonial era sources are not appropriate here. I am leaning on either removing most  of it or at least rewriting it with clear attribution. Far more recent peer-reviewed scholarship is now available, such as by Cutler Blackburn (p. 453 onwards). Any thoughts, objections and suggestions?, Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 01:29, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed with Robinson being not an acceptable source. There are a few other dubious sources in the article, such as Why Should Thirukkural Be Declared the National Book of India? Also, is the 2017 book by "G. Devaneya Pavanar" cited in the article the reprint of a book by Devaneya Pavanar? If so, that's not a great source either - the guy dated Sangam literature to as early as 10,000 BCE, and believed Kumari Kandam to be real. utcursch | talk 14:00, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 15:42, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks for raising this question Ms Sarah Welch. It's me who included that Robinson source. However, I had this doubt. Hence I've used phrases such as "Traditional account says" wherever I found it dubious. Can we retain them with such phrases until we find more reliable sources? Thanks again. Rasnaboy (talk) 06:05, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  The revised article already includes an overview of the different traditional accounts, from the claims about his birth family to Madurai. Anything more based on non-HISTRS sources is undue and raises balance issues (NPOV) between real authentic scholarly biography versus fiction/propaganda/misinformation. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 13:41, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Robinson, non-[[WP:HISTRS]] sources 

message: Factorsworld and other recent edit warriors: per our WP:NPOV guidelines, we cannot take sides, we summarize the sides. We must reflect the uncertainty about Valluvar, as well as present a summary of the different theories/claims about he being a Jain/Hindu/Christian/etc. We can't write Valluvar was a Jain no doubt about it; or, Valluvar was a Hindu no doubt it; or, etc. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 02:48, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Religious affiliation 

message: http://www.thiruvalluvan.com/2019/01/26/%e0%ae%95%e0%af%81%e0%ae%b1%e0%ae%b3%e0%af%8d-320/  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2409:4072:6083:EE96:89D9:5DB6:EC31:C523 (talk) 12:07, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  kural 

message: Thiruvalluvar was Hindu
He wear ocher color dress only 
So please kindly change the display picture Ajith selva 0002 (talk) 17:06, 25 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  display picture (DP) 

message: He is a Buddhist. The author is biased. ArjunseconR (talk) 16:16, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  valluvar is a buddhist 

message: Valluvar is a Buddhist. He is not born from mylapore. The author wrote  brahmin propaganda. ArjunseconR (talk) 16:22, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  valluvar is a Buddhist .he is not born in mylapore 

message: Many brahmin propaganda in here . Author was writing brahmin propaganda .He is not born on mylapore... HE is buddhist. ArjunseconR (talk) 13:36, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  propagonda 

message: A user had added an image of Valluvar, which was reverted earlier. On a second glance, I noticed that it was a government-approved portrait of Valluvar used in all government institutions across the country. So I've added it again in the article. Will see if I could get a better resolution of this image as this appears to be the original drawing from the 1960s. Thanks. Rasnaboy (talk) 16:32, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Wonder if this image could replace the one currently in the infobox.   Please help. Rasnaboy (talk) 16:45, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Indian government–approved portrait 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: In the religion section under the first image there is a line which mentions that Thiruvalluvar is "conformed hindu" with citations which obviously does not match with other mentions. So what is it? Satyamsha (talk) 18:04, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Have just reverted the recent unsourced additions under religion. I don't see any line mentioning "conformed Hindu". As far as I see, sources don't say Valluvar is a "conformed Hindu" either but we only have scholarly sources hinting that he could be a Jain or a Hindu (for which we have citations). Rasnaboy (talk) 17:31, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Religion section