Talk:Harley-Davidson

message: In recent years, some articles have appeared which implicate the Harely-Davidson models with the rubber-mounted engines in several accidents involving a peculiar motorcycle instability colloquially termed "high-speed wobble."  The generation of a high-speed wobble can occur suddenly and become so vicious that no amount of rider input can control it; in such cases the motorcyle is usually upset and the rider thrown off.  The causes of wobble (which can occur in any motorcycle) are many and varied, including improper tire inflation, wind-effects, irregularities in the road surface, after-market equipment (such as handle-bar or fork mounted windshields), speed, rider/passenger/luggage weight, and cornering forces.  In particular, the inherent rigidity of the frame is important.  A current theory as to why the Harley-Davidson cruiser motorcycles are apparently susceptible to this anomaly is the effects of the rubber-mounted engines.  In the design of a motorcycle frame, the engineer/designer takes into account the rigidity added to the frame by a solidly bolted engine.  In this case, the structure of the engine, being directly affixed to the frame, adds to frame rigidiy.  
In an effort to make their cruisers as smooth running as the Japanese cruisers, Harley-Davidson simply changed the engine mounts on their big bikes, attaching the engine to the frame via rubber snubbers.  This isolated engine vibration from the frame, but as an unintended consequence also removed the rigidity afforded by a solid engine-frame combination, and in addition allowed the engine itself to wobble under certain throttle settings and load conditions.  The theory is that under these specific circumstances the vibrating engine sets up a harmonic with the frame, and a catastrophic wobble at speed may ensue.  In support of this theory is the fact that wobble appears to be much less of a problem (if seen at all) in the rigidly-mounted engine models, such as the FLSTF Fatboy and the older Sportsters.
Operating under the assumption that a freely vibrating engine aggravated the appearance of high-speed wobble, several after-market companies released stabilizing kits which attach underneath the engine, usually via the transmission, and bolt the engine to the frame, allowing some vibratory isolation, but preventing any side-to-side movement of the engine.  Rigorous data on the effect of these kits is not readily available, but the common consensus among Harley riders (as detailed in numerous motorcycle and Harley-Davidson bulletin boards, forums, and blogs) is that the kits are effective.
Harley-Davidson has not issued any official statement concerning this matter (possibly due to ongoing litigation), but 2012 cruiser models with rubber-mounted engines are being released with a braced engine.  The Harley-Davidson brace is simply a threaded fastener which attaches from the cylinder head of the front cylinder and runs obliquely to a left frame member.  This is a very visible device, as opposed to the after-market kits which are mounted underneath the frame.  Whether this device is as effective as the aftermarket kits, or indeed, whether either type of device is effective at all, remains to be seen98.170.199.37 (talk) 02:29, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: You were right to remove this. There is still content in the article about the wobble problems, but that is well cited from three different sources. What you removed was original research without supporting references. --Biker Biker (talk) 10:10, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Instability Controversy 

message: There is a new world record. Done by Michel von Tell on the Harley LiveWire. Over 1000 miles within one day. Its going around the world in the last days. I will post some links. Maybe someone will put this in the article or creat a topic with harley records in the article.
Canada 
https://electrek.co/2020/03/22/harley-davidson-livewire-electric-motorcycle-1000-miles-in-24-hrs/
Germany
https://www.motorradonline.de/elektro/harley-davidson-rekord-elektromotorrad/
Italia
https://www.moto.it/elettrico/harley-davidson-livewire-1-723-km-in-24-h.html 
Chech Republic
https://www.auto.cz/elektricky-harley-davidson-livewire-zlomil-dulezity-rekord-kolik-najel-za-24-hodin-133797
Arabia
https://www.autocentre.ua/news/shvejtsarets-ustanovil-rekord-ginnesa-na-elektricheskom-harley-davidson-1210420.html
Timi!Tim!11 (talk) 18:26, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Harley world record 

message: No. It's Wikipedia, the Wild West of lies and bovine excrement. I came here for the laughs. You idiots take this drivel seriously.   — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pozzdonn (talk • contribs) 19:17, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Any chance of a return to Good Article status? 

message: Should we add the fact that the Russian band Aria recorded the album (or single?) "Tribute to Harley-Davidson"? 83.237.225.175 (talk) 19:09, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure, add it... to Aria's article, not to Harley-Davidson's.  See WP:WPACT. Sincerely, SamBlob (talk) 20:35, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia:"In popular culture" content gives a rundown of what we're looking for, such as at WP:IPCEXAMPLES. What we most need is a third party source - not a reference to Electra Glide in Blue, but a reference to a reliable source who verifies that it matters that it was a Harley-Davidson in that movie. What is it telling us that it was that bike and not some other bike? Did the movie affect H-D in some way? The source should tell us what that influence or meaning was, not merely that the bike was prominent in the movie.<P>Just imagine if we had a list of every single time a character in a movie drank a Coca-Cola, or we saw someone vacuuming a rug with a Hoover. It's not just a matter of getting it down to pocket book size. You'd end up with a section at the end of the article filled with miscellaneous connect, sometimes called "trivia", which is essentially a garbage dump at the bottom of an article where unconnected arbitrary factoids collect. See Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Trivia sections. A fact can exist yet have no meaning, and without meaning facts tend to get thrown on a heap, which isn't valuable. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 20:09, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  HD in popular culture 

message: Nowhere does it indicate where the bikes are actually built and assembled.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.34.34.203 (talk) 23:13, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: It says the US, Gurgaon, India, and Manaus, Brazil. We could add each US factory location; there's 8 of them making various components. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 23:43, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Factory Locations 

message: Headline-1: Harley-Davidson introduces electric motorcycle
* http://www.myfoxny.com/story/25817399/harley-davidson-introduces-electric-motorcycle
QUOTE: "Harley-Davidson will unveil its first electric motorcycle next week, and President Matt Levatich said he expects the company known for its big touring bikes and iconic brand to become a leader in developing technology and standards for electric vehicles. Harley will show handmade demonstration models Monday at an invitation-only event in New York. The company will then take several dozen riders on a 30-city tour to test drive the bikes and provide feedback. Harley will use the information it gathers to continue refining the bike, which might not hit the market for several more years. The venture is a risk for Harley because there's currently almost no market ..." -- Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 14:43, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  New NEWS today 

message: 50 miles for a dollar—gas, oil, tires, and all. — ¾-10 04:38, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Neat police bike photo, 1922, PD-US

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: please update accordingly  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.77.234.151 (talk) 14:54, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  need to update the site on Harley engines...  the twin cam engine has been replaced 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello, recently Dennis Bratland removed my content mentioning Harley-Davidson Clubs. These clubs contributed significantly to the fame of this brand around the world, therefore should be mentioned here, at least in one sentence. There was also mention of the oldest one, which is now located in Prague, which became the oldest H-D club in the world in 1978, when the San Francisco club, till then the oldest, stopped existing. It is sourced by two H-D clubs (Prague and Preston), and by independent sources: Itnsource, Czech car magazine Auto.cz and Czech TV Nova. These both informations meets the criteria for notability and reliability, therefore should be included. Jirka.h23 (talk) 17:37, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: The information you've been edit warring to include is off-topic, unencyclopedic tripe. 32.218.33.164 (talk) 17:39, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: How this could be off-topic Dennis? Harley-Davidson Clubs are directly related to Harley-Davidson, uses their logo, promoting their products, spreads fame of this brand around the world. Therefore at least one sentence should be here included.Jirka.h23 (talk) 17:43, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't say its off topic. I asked why it's so important. Do you have any evidence that "these clubs contributed significantly to the fame of this brand around the world"? That's a bold claim. If it is true, there ought to be proof of that lying around somewhere. All we have is the club and the dealership in Prague saying it about themselves. Why doesn't Harley-Davidson say it? Why don't any journalists or historians say it? Many books have been written on the history of Harley-Davidson, yet this club which made such a significant contribution is never even mentioned? Why?<P>I don't think the sources given are reliable, or that they are even in a position to know what they claim. I started a discussion at the Reliable Sources Noticeboard to seek consensus on the sources: Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Oldest Harley-Davidson club in history? Let's see what others have to say. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 18:04, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: You still do not believe me? Ok, here you go-another ones: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Is it enough? Jirka.h23 (talk) 18:19, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think you're paying attention to my reasons for questioning this. I asked several specific questions. Perhaps wait and see what other editors at the RS/N have to say. Maybe one of them can explain it. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 18:23, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I am not paying attention to your reasons? All I do is still trying to answer your changing reasons for your clearance of sourced content. So what is your stance? Are you challenging that these clubs contributed to spread the name of HD around the world? Look for example here, it was Harley-Davidson Clubs from the Netherlands, Germany and Belgium who stand in the beginning of the Super Rally, a huge challenge that also popularising the name of Harley-Davidson. Also read there: "As a member a of FH-DCE you have support and a voice both within the world of Harley-Davidson and in the world of motorcycling." I would say, that at least one sentence should be mentioned here, and this is not against anything.Jirka.h23 (talk) 19:31, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I guess what you're saying is, a reliable source is anything you found on any website. That's incorrect. You've mentioned two encyclopedia articles in your arguments, Reliability of Wikipedia and Notability in the English Wikipedia, rather than the actual policies, Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources, and Wikipedia:Notability (which is not relevant at all; this isn't an AfD discussion -- read WP:NNC). Do you understand the difference between Reliability of Wikipedia and Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources? They're two drastically different things. All I can suggest is that you read the latter, WP:RS, carefully and try to understand it better. The essay Wikipedia:Identifying and using independent sources might offer some insight too. Putting aside all the self-published sources you're using (WP:NOTRELIABLE explains why), just because something is ostensibly a news organization doesn't make it sufficient to verify anything and everything. Some claims have to be held to a higher standard. WP:NEWSORG discusses why.<P>So you have self-serving, self-published websites, which we can throw right out the window. And then you have some very brief news items which are very obviously just rehashes of press releases and quotations of the subject's claims about itself. A claim like this needs to be based on sources that have no conflict of interest, and that plausibly could have verified the claim in some way. The sense I get from most of these "news" sites is that they simply don't care whether or not this is the first Harley club in the world. They aren't interested in finding out. If they had exerted any effort to verify it, they'd be telling us so. We have no plausible explanation for how anyone found proof that this historical claim is true. It's just a thing this club says, and a lot of locals in Prague believe it. That's all.<P>So basically, as the IP said, it's tripe. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 21:41, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: What brief news are you talking about? For example author of article on E15 (Economic news) is ČTK - national and the biggest Czech news agency, they can't just so easy fabricate a claim with no factual basis or evidence. The sense I get from you, is that because I do not know (or do not believe) something - it is surely not true. What Club is older then? Also, if you claim, that they do not trying to find out if this is the first HD Club, that is not true, you can find out that it became the oldest in 1978, when the San Francisco club, till then the oldest, stopped existing. Jirka.h23 (talk) 05:08, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

text: Here is another source of Mafra company, the largest Czech media company, that publishes the most widely read Czech journal MF-DNES. Jirka.h23 (talk) 05:45, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Because you have not answered for more than two weeks now and a pp-dispute expired week ago, I have added these, in my opinion, more reliable sources to the article. Bye for now and take care, I hope our next encounter will be in a less conflicting case. Jirka.h23 (talk) 15:08, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Nobody participated in the Reliable Sources Noticeboard request. I can't force others to settle the question, but you shouldn't assume it is settled when nobody has said anything one way or the other. I expect we will eventually see other editors delete this entry for the same reasons I did, and we will once again have to attempt to find consensus on the question of whether your sources are acceptable. It's still a dubious claim, without independent sources, and of questionable relevance to an article about a company. We will have to wait and see. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 16:54, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

text: Dennis, it is strange that you are finally answering after so much time and even do not care to say anything about my previous posts. So I am asking you once again, are two previous sources reliable or not? If not, then for what reason? I am talking about E15 and iDnes sources. Thanks for your answer. Jirka.h23 (talk) 04:41, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: No, I don't think they are. They lack independence, and they haven't demonstrated how they are in a position to know which clubs existed in Timbuktu and White Plains and Manchester in 1925. The entire tale lacks plausibility. The sources are too local, too insular, and too connected to the subject. Sources with no connection to the subject who have demonstrated that they have the means to know which clubs existed 80 or 90 years ago would be persuasive. Established, respected motorcycling journalists, authors, and historians from other countries, for example. I've already said this before. I don't want to keep repeating it. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 05:09, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: You do not said this before, this is new to me. Are you saying that because those sources are from Czech Republic then they are too connected to the subject and therefore they lack independence? These are respected journals (also motorcycle and automotive), they do not have any interest in spreading false information, except for own reputation and disgrace. Are you saying that if we will have sources just from for example Slovenia (because no other country will care), this should be identified as too local and should be deleted immediately from wikipedia? Same with sources from America? Should now I go and follow this? Where in Wikipedia policy can I read about this? Jirka.h23 (talk) 14:18, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

text: I talked about it with a friend from Italy, and he immediately send me these sources: Motori.it, Motorbox.com, Repubblica.it, is it enough finally? Jirka.h23 (talk) 07:18, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mention of HD Clubs 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The article is missing Model Family "Livewire". No references anywhere in the article. Notable for being electric, I think its the first Harley model to be electric. Darwulf (talk) 23:37, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing Model Family 

message: A couple of things I've found here.
- They have an electric model called the Livewire
- Their York, PA facility is involved in the EPA "One Cleanup Program" and was the first in the US to volunteer and enroll in this program.
Part of an ongoing project I've started. Further information can be found on my talk page, and I'd appreciate any help. Darwulf (talk) 23:42, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible expansion on Environmental Record section 

message: I seem to remember a recent news article that H-D is closing down their Indian operation. However, their is no mention of it in the article. What is the status of the Indian operation? --TGC55 (talk) 13:20, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Talk about a long wait for an answer! I just updated Harley-Davidson India accordingly. I'm working on updating this main Harley article now. It's a bit out of date. TimTempleton (talk) (cont) 17:14, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Closing down Indian operation? 

message: — Assignment last updated by Michelle312 (talk) 02:32, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: Introduction to Community Economic and Social Development II

message: I just wanted Harley-Davidson to know,my husband loved his so much. We he got sick he would not let me sale it. He ordered his Softtail 2002. It only has 2,200 miles on before he started getting sick. I don’t know what I could get out of it. It’s like brand new. He put a seat for two on it, so we could enjoy it together. You never know how long you have on this earth. He was a member of th hog. I just wanted to share his love he had for his Harley. His name was Don O Turner Sr from Spartanburg SC. There should be a website that people could tell how much they love their Harley. Thanks 99.95.153.161 (talk) 17:23, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  My husband passed away 3/5/2024