Talk:Anime/Archive 7

message: How is creating anime different from creating animation?  This question is directed at the "Techniques" section. KyuuA4 09:58, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Creating Anime

message: Can it be possible to use a list format to describe some style features found in most (or all) anime? Basically, the list would appear like the Genre section. KyuuA4 20:33, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Style Section 

message: I was just passing by and thought I'd comment that your history section seems somewhat lacking.  It goes right from the 20's to the 70's, completely skipping over the 50's and 60's, Tezuka, Astroboy, Kimba, etc.  It says nothing about the various waves of popularity in America and so forth.  You might want to do some expanding there.
Also, in your Synonyms section, since when has "Manga" been confused with "Anime?"  Anime is the Japanization of animation, and Manga is the Japanization of magazine, meaning comics.  Has anime fandom truly fallen into such disarray that fans have forgotten the distinctly different meaning of the two words? Perri Rhoades 05:44, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sadly, yes, many younger fans confuse the two (well, back in the '90s, anyway). --maru   (talk)  contribs 01:54, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

text: The word "manga" is not actually based on "magazine". DenisMoskowitz 19:20, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Apparently, anime fandom has gone into a disarray such that they'd segregate anime/manga from animation/comics.  This is bias to the extreme. KyuuA4 06:59, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  History and Synonyms sections 

message: Darkstar949, how come you removed some discussions on the talk page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.115.229.176 (talk • contribs) 
:I've restored the deleted sections. I will also archive part the talk page after this edit. --TheFarix (Talk) 15:55, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Now archived --TheFarix (Talk) 16:05, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: News to me - but from the looks of the history log it was a page collision error - namely I used my back button to edit instead of refreshing the page (very bad, I know) --Darkstar949 06:07, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deleted Discussions from the Talk Page? 

message: Well, under NPOV, is it acceptable to report the different views of the Anime Definition? A short section is now used to describe definition discrepancies. KyuuA4 05:20, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I thought the article already did that.. -- Ned Scott 05:21, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Along with Ppk01's edit, the opening paragraph looks more concise and improved.  Details are then included over to the definition section. KyuuA4 17:57, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Anime in any language but Japanese means animation made in Japan. The style doesn't matter, it's the country of origin. Anime is what would be Nihon no Animeshiyon in Japanese. And no, an animated product can't be both anime and non-anime. --SeizureDog 19:46, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I disagree that an anime must be a product produced in Japan.  That would imply other "ethnicities" are incapable of producing anime.  Look at Jazz music.  It is a style of music originated from Black people from America.  Does that mean other people cannot produce Jazz?  Then look at Yoko Konno. Again, Anime is a Style of animation. KyuuA4 18:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

text: If labeled "Japanese anime", then it is more accurate. KyuuA4 18:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That bring us back to the problem of implying the possibility of "American anime", "French anime", "Korean anime" etc; implying again that anime is defined by style rather than origin and introducing the problems inherant in defining said style. Shiroi Hane 15:50, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Anime is a style. It originated in Japan; but it is still a style. 75.34.55.108 17:05, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: To say this would exclude several animes from Japan. Certainly, in popular culture, we have used the word "anime" to describe a type of style, but to say that anime is a style isn't completely accurate. Several animations from Japan are anime, but use very different styles. For example, Windy Tales. -- Ned Scott 19:51, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

text: If it is a style, then find reliable sources that defines the elements that make up that style as well as resolves the discrepancies when some animated films/series that are widely considered to be anime do not share those elements and vice versa. --TheFarix (Talk) 20:39, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Online Dictionary sources label it as a Japanese style, or a style originating in Japan -- not a Japanese product or animation produced in Japan.  It is a style.  As for the characteristics for the anime style, some searching to describe the style will need to be done. So, the dispute over anime vs non-anime falls under the style definition.  What belongs to the anime style?  What does not belong to the anime style? KyuuA4 05:21, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

text: To revisit Something I queried on the wikiproject: would you classify anime as anything animated in Japan (or, at least created by the Japanese since they outsource and 'insource' animation..) included full 3D CGI efforts like Malice@Doll and the Final Fantasy movies and other media such as stopmotion, or just Japanese cartoons (as in traditional or compter aided cell animation). Shiroi Hane 15:47, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The line between traditional animation and CGI has become so blurred that it's largely useless to make dictions between the two. You will essentially be arguing about degrees, such as a series that is 75% CGI and 25% traditional would be considered anime, so why shouldn't a 90% to 100% CGI series/film be considered anime as well. Or why should a film that is 100% CGI but still retains the "look and feel" of traditional animation be considered anime? Fortunately for us, CGI does appear to be included as anime. Can't say the same for stop motion since there is very little Japanese stop motion animations to begin with. --TheFarix (Talk) 20:39, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Anime Definition

message: Her image has been bugging the crap out of me for some time. On one hand, she is a free image, and we do need to try and use them, but my problem is that she is not from any anime. Of which I mean the image is not from an animation at all. So in reality she shows the manga drawing style instead. Maybe I'm just being nitpicky, as the two styles are the same, but it's still driving me nuts. I'm romoving it, and I'd move it the manga article, but there doesn't seem to be a good open spot for it. --SeizureDog 19:56, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Works for me. Finite 20:01, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I hate to break it to you, but all the images on the article are single frames anyways. We also have :Image:Laputa-robot-ghibli.jpg, and no one has said anything about that.  If someone wishes to publish this article and can't use fair use images then all they have is... :Image:Laputa-robot-ghibli.jpg.  Again, all the images are single frame stills, thus none of them are "anime". We use the images because they show what some of the anime styles look like, plain and simple. -- Ned Scott 23:44, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, but they're from an anime, right Ned? Ah, well, it's the same drawing style so until somebody goes forth and publishes a PD or GDFL anime, then Wikipe-tan is all we have to show the drawing style in fair-use-less versions of Wikipedia. --GunnarRene 18:51, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The simple solution to this is to make a Wikipe-tan anime. Let's go bug Kasuga again :D *gets killed* _dk 19:44, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Fan art is still a copyvio. -- Ned Scott 10:34, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Unless it's fan art of Wikipe-tan. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 18:23, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipe-tan doesn't belong 

message: where to find statistics about Japanese Anime, like the number of series produced, the number of episodes, series/year, episodes/year, and names? AshrafSS 22:52, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statistics about Anime? 

message: Does anyone have a list of common character types in anime (samurai, catgirl, space pirate, etc...), or know where I can get one. Something big, not just 10 or 15 types of characters.
Also, common themes or elements. Like, demons coming, main character has to stop them, training to become the strongest "Blank". You get the idea.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.166.40.74 (talk • contribs) 02:06, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The TV Tropes Wiki is excellent for this kind of thing - check out their Anime Tropes page, from which you can also find character types, genres, settings, and culture notes. DenisMoskowitz 14:41, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Common characters/ themes? 

message: I've tagged three sections that could seriously benefit from inline references: Music, Animation process and Production types of anime. If any of the five books listed which haven't been turned into inline reference per WP:FOOT can be used, that would be great. --TheFarix (Talk) 00:24, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: I'm moving this section to the talk page to be worked on, since.. yeah.. it's pretty much made of one man's quote and as I said before, it's better to correct these things than to just counter them with a "con" argument. -- Ned Scott 05:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's horribly one sided, and I'm not sure if we should quote THAT MUCH of his review. (copyvio?) The section also needs to be called something more like "Response in America" or something to that extent. There's several articles on the "anime craze" and so on, it shouldn't be hard at all to find more than this. I don't disagree with this guy at all, that's not my point, but the section looks like shit. Calling it a cult hit? True or not, that's not how an encyclopedia article should be written. -- Ned Scott 07:36, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A big massive quote like that does look like crap.  Best way to describe the anime reception outside Japan is to briefly describe the growth of the anime market in various regions.  This requires a look at the anime markets in the US, Europe, Latin America, and beyond. Though, I do wonder about Africa. After a quick Google check, there are plenty of South African anime sites. KyuuA4 18:04, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Shouldn't large quotes be placed in Wikiquote? That is what it is for: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/John_Oppliger. --Squilibob 07:25, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Popularity in the United States 

message: I'm hoping that as this article is improved, along with following SeizureDog's advice, then the Anime criticism section would be addressed eventually, thus hopefully negating the need of the Anime mediation case.  If Selmo wants to put a criticism section, perhaps it should be edited for improvement rather than just deletion?  (This is just a proposal).  Jsw663 18:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe we're fine with having a criticism section except that it should not be pure OR and properly sourced. This has been the main problem and the reason that the prior one was removed. Kyaa the Catlord 06:18, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, but until such a criticism section is written, and/or if Selmo abandons his mediation case, we still have not yet reached that compromise - and thus the mediation case must still remain open until then.  Jsw663 11:08, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't realize he had opened a mediation case until I went hunting for it. Isn't it normal to announce that there is a mediation underway on the article for which he's requested mediation? (Not that his case has any real merit, his criticism section did not meet WP standards and was perfectly acceptably removed on grounds which were stated in the edit summaries.) Kyaa the Catlord 12:14, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I don't think there is anything to mediate at this point. Selmo appears to have given up on the section since his last two attempts where reverted for using dubious sources. --TheFarix (Talk) 19:04, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I've left a message on Selmo's user page.  If I receive no response on any of the Anime pages, on his / my user talk page for a week from now, I'll deem the mediation case as having been abandoned and thus close the case.  Until then, perhaps we should just wait / help improve this Anime entry until then. Jsw663 17:04, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Improvement --> no Need for mediation? 

message: An anonymous editor has inserted another criticism section. Like previous attempts, it doesn't make any references to any reliable sources. It similarly appears to be someone's opinion inserted into the article. The opening sentence also contains the weasel phrase, "It is self evident to many impartial observers," which presents an opinion as fact without having to cite a source for that opinion.
However, rather then outright deleting the section, I'm going to tag it for a while. If it doesn't improve after a few days, it should then be removed. --TheFarix (Talk) 12:33, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Anime is a medium. Having a criticism section here is as ludicrous as having one on Book. I am deleting that ignorant bash-fest NOW. Finite 22:59, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: True.  Any criticism should be directed at individual anime works. KyuuA4 22:06, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism section (again) 

message: Just a reminder that if these sections don't receive some inline references soon, they could be removed in their entirety under WP:V. This is a shame, because these sections contribute a lot to the article. --TheFarix (Talk) 12:52, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed, huge failure on the part of using citations around here.  However, that can be cleaned up. KyuuA4 07:26, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Since no one has bothered to add inline references, I've removed them. --TheFarix (Talk) 03:28, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Music, Techniques, Companies, and Production types of anime section 

message: Do we really need that Cowboy Bebop image on the right? I think it's been up for way too long, and that we can definately find a more appropriate image. Astroboy is one obvious choice. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by B.A.B.E. (talk • contribs) 21:10, 25 September 2006  (UTC)
I think it's a very good example of the anime style, personally. It contains various different characters, each with their own distinct anime-style image. Besides, there are other images throughout the article that illustrate some of the other popular anime series. Astro Boy seems very appropriate to be put in the History section, as it's really the first "proper" anime series. I say leave the Cowboy Bebop image where it is. --Ppk01 14:56, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is being discussed above at the section Sweeping Image Revisions. Shinobu 10:53, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cowboy Bebop Image 

message: Sorry. Being semi-new to the Wikipedia community, I didn't mean to impose on anybody.
But, because I've been hearing "anime" pronounced in so many various forms, I'd like to have some people devote a section to just the pronuncation of the word "anime," of which would include both the Japanese pronunciation as well as the English pronunciation. Although, yes, anime is derived from the word "animation," I feel that is justly why people should contribute to a section on how the hiragana/katagana is pronounced as well as how the English version of the word is pronounced. Besides, it'll look better than a description lumped into the introduction of the article.
Rather, in addition to the IPA pronunciation method (because most people don't seem to understand it), add another part of it, such as:
あ / ア
"ah" is pronounced like . . . I don't know. the "ah" sound in "art?"
に/ ニ
"ni" is pronounced like the word "need."
め/メ
"me" like in "maid" or "make."
I mean, while trying to consider everybody's respective accents, this should still come out fairly clear.
:I really don't think there is a need for such a section. A pronounciation guide should only needed for words that are not in common use in English. --TheFarix (Talk) 21:07, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Promote talk/section to pronunciation of "anime" (both English and Japanese). 

message: I think we need some sort of article regarding anime music, or more like companies that realease anime music and the bootleggers. i dont know, this just crossed my mind. Angelofdeath275 22:14, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We had one but it was deleted (I don't know why, but my guess is lack of citations for a long period of time.) Sasuke-kun27 23:25, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just scroll up. KyuuA4 03:55, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  anime music 

message: ; TV Asahi has published a list of Japan's favorite TV anime (And a list of 100 Favorite Anime selected by Celebrities)
: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/article.php?id=9652
; Top 10 All-Time Anime Manga According to 80,000 Japanese Fans
: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/article.php?id=9617
This isn't really important for this article. KyuuA4 06:52, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: + POV issues. Shinobu 22:08, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Top anime in Japan 

message: Just to clarify, my understanding was that 'Anime' as a term is derived from the French term for animation, which is 'anime'. This also explains the archaic tag of 'Japanime'.
I do study Japanese language, although not the French, and using the term 'Aniimeishan' would not be difficult for the Japanese language, so this makes more sense
203.206.28.90 13:57, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We've had similar debates about this before. If something like that is added to the article or replaces something else then it needs to be referenced from a reliable source --Squilibob 03:45, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anime derivation - Language 

message: I noticed this odd sentence in the article: "In the late 1960's, the United States saw its first large-scale exposure to anime in the Speed Racer TV series, a dubbed version of a Japanese series."
Strangely enough, this is next to a picture of Astro Boy (released to U.S. in September, 1963). Astro Boy was followed by Eighth Man (US: 1965), Gigantor (US: 1966), Kimba (US: 1966), Prince Planet (US: 1966), Marine Boy (US: 1966), and The Amazing 3 (US: 1967). In fact, of the eight anime series released in the US in the '60s, Speed Racer was the last. Am I missing something, or is this sentence just wrong? Rizzleboffin 19:25, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Since no one raised an objection to the above, I've re-written the paragraph stating that Astro Boy was the first anime to be broadcast in the US, and including a little more info about anime in the US in the '60s & '70s, with the Fred Patten article as the source. Rizzleboffin 20:54, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a good addition, need more citations like that in this article. --Squilibob 03:45, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anime in America 

message: This nonsensical article is not NPOV. There needs to be a criticism section for it to be so. Hell, everything else has one. There are many links (putting it lightly) to other pages adn discussions on the net to justify the criticisms that people have about anime. Hell, there are even some on this very site.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pokemon#Racism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Popo#Controversy
The NPOV writers of this article should not be allowed to keep the just criticisms of anime out of this article because they think it tarnishes it so. This topic needs to be in this article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 202.33.24.132 (talk • contribs) .
:Make one. Find some sources and create one. Its wikipedia, if you want to include something, do it. Kyaa the Catlord 15:05, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's also hard to criticize something so general as anime. The examples you provide are about specific series, which is much easier to give criticism on. I've said this many times before, but I believe the best way to make this article NPOV is to remove the overly positive POV rather than adding negative POV as a "band-aid". -- Ned Scott 21:02, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Well, maybe, if it could be sourced, but does it really make sense at all? Wouldn't it be better to just keep a note on this talk page that criticism about a specific series or genre should be placed on the relevant article and not in this article? For example Film does not have a section of criticism against film, even though some think that moving images are evil. There is indeed a section called Film criticism, but that contains information about the film critic occupation, not criticism against film in general.--GunnarRene 08:28, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Heck, I wonder if I could get Genvid to let me write a "criticism of anime" feature so we can use it for this article. :P Kyaa the Catlord 08:31, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Hey, that's not a bad idea. We could have a section that isn't the criticism itself, but about criticism on anime. Just a thought. -- Ned Scott 08:47, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I don't think it is appropiate to have a criticism section for anime as a whole. If there are numerous negative reviews of a specific anime series or movie that would be fine, but only on its respective article, not on a page discussing the entire medium. Finite 02:47, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why is there no Criticism?