Talk:List of Christmas carols

message: Just noticed you have rudolph and santa claus is coming to town.. Maybe consider adding frosty as well?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.118.187.188 (talk) 04:18, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: -- Today, none of these three are on the list. Consider some other WP pages listed below. -- AstroU (talk) 20:58, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

text: No need. If you want to split and create a list of Christmas songs, you would need to find reliable sources that list one song as a carol and not just a "song". In many cases, that line of demarcation is arbitrary. Without reliable sources, you're just applying :WP:OR to the removal of some songs and not others. Walter Görlitz (talk) 00:37, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Popular Christmas songs should most definitely be removed, which has been the clear consensus of the majority of editors of this article as evidenced by the other comments in this talk page.37.18.134.184 (talk) 14:04, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Frosty The Snowman?

message: Can someone with the appropriate permissions please change the spelling of the word 'epithany' in the 'Carol of the Bells' entry to the correct spelling 'epiphany'?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hjarrot2 (talk • contribs) 23:13, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Neither word is there now. -- AstroU (talk) 21:01, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

text: Neither of those is specifically tied to Christmas.Rockhopper10r 05:25, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: But I only hear them at christmas time, and they are often included in christmas celebrations. Kingturtle 18:59, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: "Ave Maria" (mostly the Schubert or Bach/Gounod versions) is heard throughout the year in Roman Catholic and, sometimes, Anglican circles on Marian feasts, as well as weddings and funerals, as well as as a concert piece. Bach's "Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring" is often performed during Advent, but it is used as a hymn or anthem throughout the year. Neither piece makes any specific reference to Christmas. Rockhopper10r 21:39, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Old discussion

message: I know I have heard a Chirstmas song or carol involving a cat and a mouse. It has stuck with me ever since I heard it that one time on the radio. Recently I've been thinking about it and doing a little web searching. It seems there is a carol called "The Cat and The Mouse Carol", but I have not been able to confirm if it is the same one that I remember or anything else about it.
If anyone knows anything about this carol, it should probably be added to the list. Lilwik 03:38, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you mean the one that goes "Said the cat to the mouse/In their dark little house/In a stable so long ago/"I am wondering why/That bright star in the sky/Is shining upon us down below"" or something like that? I have it in a book, but probably not with enough extra facts. Just the lyrics and tune, which don't really belong here. Skittle 13:19, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That might be the carol which I have found referenced on the web as "The Cat and The Mouse Carol," but it is not the Christmas song that I remember. In that case there are two such songs and they both should be discovered somehow. Even though it was years ago when I heard the song, I know that it was rather slow and could not possibly have had the short lines and snappy rhymes that you quote.Lilwik 05:14, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So we have established that :-) What else do you remember about your song? Any words/phrases? Sort of music? Skittle 23:19, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe it was a rather somber song. I can't remember any lyrics, unfortunately, but I have a feeling that it was in the same theme as The Little Match Girl, but it was a cat and a mouse in the cold, setting aside their classic differences on Christmas. Lilwik 08:55, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Might it be the one described here? I'll post what it says on your talk page, since I'm accessing it from Google's cache and it might not be there much longer, but it seems too long to post here. Skittle 17:00, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure exactly what that link is referring to, but I finally managed to find the song on my own. This is the song I vaguely remembered: The Cat Carol. I guess The Cat and The Mouse Carol is something else. I will leave it to others to judge of it really qualifies as a Christmas carol, because despite its title is could be merely a Christmas song. It has a copyright that is barely 10 years old, 1993. Lilwik 00:11, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's the one I found at that link. I also posted the relevant bit onto your user page, which I meant to put on your talk page. 17:21, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  The song is in reference to a carol written by British Singer and songwriter Ted Hutchinson http://content.usatoday.com/communities/idolchatter/post/2011/11/david-archuleta-my-kind-of-christmas/1#.VUcZ-5NlE4I.  It was recently performed by David Archuleta and The Mormon Tabernacle Choir and was released on the Christmas CD following the concert ( Glad Christmas Tidings 2011).  This is the Mormon Tabernacle Choir link to the song: http://www.mormontabernaclechoir.org/articles/cat-and-the-mouse-carol-david-archuleta?lang=eng   The Carol is about a Cat and a Mouse in the Manger when Christ was born.  The David Archuleta version is the only one I have been able to find. Nehimomma (talk) 07:10, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Cat and The Mouse Carol? 

message: Lyrics in the public domain must be moved to Wikisource s:Category:Christmas_carols --Altermike 15:47, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lyrics 

message: Do we really need the unending list of artists who performed these carols? I am considering removing the performed by sections. Kingturtle (talk) 16:29, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: However, the second table column lists "Composer/Lyricist". -- AstroU (talk) 21:24, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Performed by... 

message: Some of the carols listed as religious are actually non-religious.  For example, Twelve Days of Christmas and Deck the Halls may be very traditional, but aren't religious.  I suggest moving them to the non-religious category, or creating a new category for them.
:I don't know about Deck the Halls, but I do know that Twelve Days of Christmas is very religious as each day corresponds to a different religious element.   --74.137.225.227 (talk) 19:37, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Snopes.com  has a very good article about the alleged hidden meanings of the lyrics of "The Twelve Days of Christmas". It is not a religious song. Rockhopper10r (talk) 05:12, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  "I checked Snopes, my research is done." A Snopes "researcher's" gleanings from blogs he read after an exhaustive Google search isn't my idea of a reliable source. Philip72 (talk) 05:04, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

text: Who on earth wrote "Deck the Halls (a pagan Yuletide drinking song)" in the article? What utter nonsense. Deck the Halls English lyrics were written by the Scottish musician Thomas Oliphant in 1862, and in Welsh by John Jones the same year.  Carols.org.}} The melody is older, first found in a musical manuscript by Welsh harpist John Parry dating back to the 1700s. So I'm deleting that nonsense, and if someone puts it back they better have a reliable cite that contradicts everything else . Philip72 (talk) 05:04, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Religious vs. Non-Religious 

message: This article is about Christmas carols, not about Non-Religious Christmas Songs. The latter should be put into List of non-religious Christmas songs. Kingturtle (talk) 03:50, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Split proposal 

message: Since the removal of the non-carols and Non-Christmas Christmas songs (should I create a redirect? ;) ), I've started a restructure. With all of the various Language X sections, the original portion seemed to be kind of hanging. So, I've started sorting them by language.
A number of the English songs (such as "Bring a Torch...") were listed in that section, but as "Language X traditional". Clearly, "Bring a Torch..." is an English translation, using the same/similar music as the original. I've made some of the changes to that effect.
Bolding the songs was unique to the English section. IMO, it also made it hard to read. I've removed the bolding.
There are still a number of questionable inclusions. For example, does Trans Siberian Orchestra's "Christmas Canon" have lyrics? If so, are they religious? If not (no lyrics or secular lyrics), is this a carol?
Comments are welcome. - SummerPhD (talk) 14:13, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice work. I've made a few format changes too. Kingturtle (talk) 17:35, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Clearly, there's a lot more to do. I'll peck at it every now and again. - SummerPhD (talk) 18:10, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Restructuring

message: Mary's Boy Child and Mary's Little Boy Child both linked to the same article which was titled Mary's Boy Child, so I removed the line for Mary's Little Boy Child and added it in brackets in the line below. Cheers, JenLouise (talk) 09:05, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Marys boy child 

message: It seems unclear what the rationale is for organising the list and it needs to be stated in the intro. It looks at first that listing is according to original language of the words, but doesn't seem to follow  that clearly. Many foreign language carols seem to be listed under English. Can we make it clearer?--Mervyn (talk) 13:15, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Not to start another discussion, but since it is listed by language, why is American listed?  It's not an language.  American English is another form of English, but not American.  Not sure why it's listed if it's listed by language.  Mr. C.C.Hey yo!I didn't do it! 03:40, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Order of list 

message: I noticed song songs like "Where Are You, Christmas?" by Faith Hill of the "How the Grinch Stole Christmas" soundtrack, "Wonderful Christmas Time" by Paul McCartney and Wings, "Thank God It's Christmas" by Queen, and others are not the list.  Would they be on another list.  If so, where is that list?  Mr. C.C.Hey yo!I didn't do it! 19:09, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: For those that fit the criteria, there's List of Christmas hit singles. Also consider :Category:Christmas songs. - SummerPhD (talk) 19:40, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks.  Mr. C.C.Hey yo!I didn't do it! 01:46, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Songs For Inclusion 

message: Is "Winter Wonderland" really a Christmas carol? The article on Winter Wonderland
describes the song as a "Christmas time pop classic" rather than a carol, and I do wonder whether it should be in this list. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 23:11, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It'd be pretty damned hard to argue that this is a Christmas carol. The song is neither about Christmas nor a carol. I'm removing it. - SummerPhD (talk) 00:32, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Question about "Winter Wonderland"

message: I removed Christmas Lights by Coldplay, because there's really no sense in which that's a Christmas carol rather than just a Christmas pop song. It belongs elsewhere.
86.183.77.237 (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 13:14, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Christmas Lights removed 

message: I have deleted the note stating that "Auld Lang Syne" "famously" appears at the end of It's A Wonderful Life. The idea that this is significant, let alone the most (or even a) notable feature of such a universally renowned song is misguided and parochial, betraying the writer's ignorance more than his knowledge.77.100.218.86 (talk) 13:08, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: True enough. More to the point, IMO, it isn't a Christmas carol. I've removed it. - SummerPhD (talk) 16:17, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Auld Lang Syne 

message: This is a much desired suggestion by someone who's not as Wikipedia savvy as I'd like to be. I wasn't sure where exactly to offer this suggestion but this seemed like the most logical place I could find. Basically, if you go to the "English" section of songs on the article, then scroll down to "Rocking Carol", you will find there is no Wikipedia article about this song, only a link to another website that talks about it. I searched and searched and searched, and there is absolutely nothing here on Wikipedia, not even a stub. This is a very famous, well known song, especially compared to some of the other lesser-known ones that have their own articles. The only place on Wikipedia I could even find mention of it is here, on this article, and again, all there is is a link to another site. Take a listen to refresh your memory about this song in case you're not familiar: "Rocking Carol"
Somebody please make a stub or something about this beautiful, popular song. I'd do it myself if I felt like spending the energy on learning how to do it. Maybe I will.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by YouarelovedSOmuch (talk • contribs) 19:33, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  No article about the Rocking Carol?

message: Well, all these years later, here we are again. Yes, we have songs that are not carols on the list. A carol is "a religious folk song or popular hymn". "Deck the Halls" (even if marginally about Christmas...sort of) is in no sense religious or a hymn. "Auld Lang Syne" is neither a carol nor about Christmas (someone was editing while drink?).
:
Along with that, we have numerous songs that are not notable. While we tried to hash this out years ago, we now have Template:Uw-badlistentry, which reads "Hello. Your recent edit appears to have added the name of a non-notable entity to a list that normally includes only notable entries. In general, a person or organization added to a list should have a pre-existing article before being added to most lists. If you wish to create such an article, please first confirm that the subject qualifies for a separate, stand-alone article according to Wikipedia's notability guideline. Thank you."
:
Granted, there is not a policy that directly excludes non-notable entries. However, we need something clear here. If my niece writes a Christmas song mentioning "Jesus" we can certainly argue it's a Christmas carol. It does not, however, belong on this list. Furthermore, without substantial coverage in reliable sources, we really have no way to determine that the song is as carol (rather than another "Sleigh Ride", "Deck the Halls", etc.
:
Comments? - SummerPhD (talk) 16:19, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the inclusion criteria could be clearer, because it doesn't state that the carol has to be typically religious. Wikipedia's own definition of a Christmas carol is "song or hymn whose lyrics are on the theme of Christmas or the winter season in general, and which is traditionally sung in the period immediately surrounding the holiday." (Then Norwegian entyr Musevisa is not at all religious and should be removed by your definition). Iselilja (talk) 16:40, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

text: Happy New Year 2015 ...  How does the inclusion criteria look now?  I think the lede here is good (1) what is included, (2) what is not, (3) definition, and (4) link to Christmas_Carol to amplify the definition, as a subset of Christmas music.  As it now stands, "A Christmas carol is a carol whose lyrics center on the theme of Christmas or that has become associated with the Christmas season even though its lyrics may not specifically refer to Christmas. Both types of Christmas carols are included in this list.
Traditional Christmas carols are deeply religious, mainly focusing on the Christian celebration of the birth of Jesus. ..." and from the Christmas carol page, "A Christmas carol (also called a noël) is a carol (song or hymn) whose lyrics are on the theme of Christmas, and which is traditionally sung on Christmas itself or during the surrounding holiday season. Christmas carols may be regarded as a subset of the broader category of Christmas music."  There is deep meaning in the carols, where wise men still seek him. -- AstroU (talk) 20:44, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inclusion 

message: I have included five Irish traditional carols and one Catalan carol. When I originally added them, they were removed by  ClueBot NG citing possible vandalism. I reported this false positive removal and added them again. Three of the Irish carols are in the English language and two are in the Irish language. The English language carols include:
:::"Christmas Day Is Come" (also known as "The Irish Carol") an 18th century Irish traditional carol written by Fr. William Devereaux and part of the "Kilmore Carols" You can listen to traditional hereor modern here
:::"Curoo Curoo ("The Carol of the Birds") is another 18th century carol. The composer is unknown. You can listen to traditional here or modern here
:::"The Darkest Midnight in December" an 18th century Irish traditional carol written by Fr. William Devereaux and part of the "Kilmore Carols" You can listen to traditional here or modern version here
The Irish language carols include:
::: "An Ciarrí Carúl Nollaig" ("The Kerry Christmas Carol") You can listen to here in English (don't know when it was translated)
:::"Oíche Nollag" (Christmas Eve") You can listen to traditional version here
The Catalan Carol includes:
:::"El cant dels ocells" (lit. "Song of the Birds") which was written by Pablo Casals. The song is also referenced as “Carol of the Birds” (Different from the Irish Traditional song Curoo Curoo (Carol of the Birds). You can listen to traditional version here or modern version here  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8084:25C0:380:9591:E645:2B49:8C7B (talk) 20:29, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inclusion of some Irish and Catalan Carols 

message: I like the idea of this list, as the Christmas carol occupies a significant place in the development of western music, and I think a good start has been made.  That said, the article needs a considerable amount of work.
* The first thing which jumps out is the sentence near the beginning, "The list is organised [sic] according to the original language of the carol."
Indeed?  Yet in the "English" section I find Bring a Torch, Jeanette, Isabella, the original language of which was almost certainly French; Deck the Hall, originally in Welsh; Glory to God (Dutch); "Good King Wenceslas (probably Moravian or Slovakian); Huron Carol (oirginally in Huron); In Dulci Jubilo  (Latin); O Christmas Tree (German); Silent Night (German); etc.
If the intent is really to organize the list by original language, all of these (and a few others) need to be moved from the "English" section to more appropriate places.  There are similar problems in some of the other language charts.
Speaking from 16 years experience with maintaining a database of more than 2000 ethnic and popular Christmas songs, I would suggest that charting by language isn't, perhaps, the most useful way to organize this list.  A better approach might be to list all songs alphabetically, by most popular title, then give the likely ethnic origin in the next column.  (Ethnic origin tends to be easier to uncover than original language.)
I would suggest also that a column be added to provide alternate titles by which the tune is known in other countries, as many of these tunes are quite commonly known by two or three different names.  This could be a single chart, or it could be separated into sections by letters of the alphabet.
* Secondly, if the list is intended to only include Christmas carols, "carol" has a very specific definition in music:  "a song, characteristically of religious joy, associated with a given season, especially Christmas; in which uniform stanzas, or verses (V), alternate with a refrain, or burden (B), in the pattern B, V1, B, V2 . . . B."
A goodly number of entries in this list are not "carols" by the musical definition (e.g. Away in a Manger; Silent Night; O Tannenbaum; Angels From the Realms of Glory; In Dulci Jubilo, and many others).  
These are, of course, very popular Christmas songs, and have been for a long time, so you may want to rethink calling this a list of carols, and instead call it a list of Christmas Songs.  
Perhaps "List of Traditional Christmas Songs" -- I 'll leave it to others to quibble over the meaning of "traditional". :)
* Thirdly, if you limit the list to strictly Christmas songs, a lot of other items have to go.  We Three Kings is an epiphany song; Good King Wenceslas celebrates St. Stephen's Day, not Christmas; Deck the Hall is a pagan (yuletide) drinking song; Kyrie Eleison has nothing to do with Christmas' it's the first movement of the Catholic Mass; O Come Emmanuel is an Advent chant... and so on.
Many of these tunes have nonetheless become so associated in the modern mind with the Christmas season that it would probably be counterproductive to remove them.  Including them with an appropriate comment -- as has been partly done -- is, I think, a good idea.
This does, however, raise the question of whether certain other songs should be included.  For example, as of right now, perhaps the most iconic "Christmas" song of all time is Jingle Bells -- which says nothing at all about Christmas, and was originally composed for Thanksgiving.  Yet so iconic has this song become, that a musician, composer, playwright, or film-maker who wants to suggest "Christmas" in the minds of his/her audience -- in any context, and at any time of year -- has only to quote the first six notes of Jingle Bells to produce the desired effect in most listeners.
One possible argument for excluding tunes like Jingle Bells would be to specify that the list only include religiously themed songs -- but in that case Deck the Hall and the Ukranian Bell Carol would also have to go, for the sake of consistency.
And that, really, is the bottom line:  consistency.  
Right now the list seriously lacks consistency.  It would be a better, more useful article, were it more consistent.
Oh, and BTW, just or the record, Guadete -- which is a Christmas carol by practically any definition -- wasn't "popularized by Steeleye Span in 1973".  Re - popularized, perhaps, but it was popularized about 400 years before most of the members of Steeleye Span were born.   ;)
74.95.43.249 (talk) 21:04, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I would add that "year published" should probably be changed to "year written" or "year composed".  Prior to the 17th century most of these tunes can't be said to have been "published" at all.  A lot of them were passed on aurally, and only published in the 19th century, hundreds of years after they were composed.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.95.43.249 (talk) 01:00, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: The comment regarding "Away In A Manger" is moot, seeing as how no scholar has ever been able to actually connect Luther to the song or lyrics.  That his name is associated with the song at all is most likely due to a deliberate pious misattribution by Murray.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.89.176.249 (talk) 22:47, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Interesting concept : Much work needed 

message: The second paragraph of the current article states:
::Many traditional Christmas carols are deeply religious, mainly focusing on the Christian celebration of the birth of Jesus. Many songs, both religious and secular, now regarded as Christmas songs have become associated with the Christmas season even though the lyrics may not specifically refer to Christmas – for example, We Three Kings (an Epiphany song), Good King Wenceslas (a carol for St. Stephen's Day), Deck the Halls (a pagan Yuletide drinking song) and O Come, O Come, Emmanuel (an Advent chant). Other Christmas songs focus on more secular Christmas themes, such as winter scenes, family gatherings, and Santa Claus (Jingle Bells, O Christmas Tree, Home for the Holidays, Jolly Old St. Nicholas, etc.).
I think the confusion around Christmas Carols and the legitimacy of some of the Carols mentioned above might be circumvented if it is added that there are Twelve Days of Christmas (also known as Twelvetide) and similar to Christmastide and from the 25th December to the 5th/6th of January they are celebrated, hence the reason why many Christmas Carols can be related to St Stephen's Day (26th December), St John's Day (27th December), Feast of Holy Innocents (28th December), St Sylvester's Day (31st December), and right up to the Epiphany. I can put this in if no one has a problem with it  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.1.202.203 (talk) 19:44, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Please use the correct date formatting. None has been defined, but the majority of references use the "dmy" format, so write 25 December, etc. Also, no slash for Epiphany: 25 December to 5 January (or 6 January depending on the tradition). Otherwise, this looks OK. Walter Görlitz (talk) 07:16, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Twelve Days of Christmas (also known as Twelvetide) and/or Christmastide 

message: Why are the translations of the Romanian carols not given?Vorbee (talk) 18:25, 18 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Romanian carols

message: Not sure if I'm putting this in the right place, but wondering if someone could please add Australian Christmas carols to the list. There's a lot of them, a few well known ones can be found here https://www.australiantimes.co.uk/lifestyle/entertainment/10-greatest-ever-australian-christmas-songs/ but with terrible examples of them being sung) In particular 
- "Carol of the Birds (Orana)" & "The Three Drovers" are very well known Aussie carols to all school children & performed at almost every end of year/Christmas primary school concert 
- "The Wiggles" songs such as "go santa go" & "santa wear your shorts" are sung to 100,000 people live each year, along with millions of tv viewers at the Sydney Carols by Candlelight & just as much staples to Aussie kids as Jingle bells or Rudolf the red nose reindeer are 
- "Santa Never Made It into Darwin" reached number 2 on the Australian music charts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_and_Boyd 
- Rolf Harris's "6 white boomers" is also an old staple
Christmas in Australia is in the middle of summer, so replacements are needed for carols that other countries sing that relate to snow & cold, so we have a lot of locally written ones, the above being some of the most universal ones  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.211.105.8 (talk) 15:54, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Australian Christmas Carols 

message: The "Huron Carol" ("Jesous Ahatonhia") is listed under American carols. However, when you go to the page about the Huron Carol, it is cited as a Canadian carol, having been written in 1642 by French Jesuit missionary Jean de Brébeuf. The original language of the carol is Huron/Wendat with the carol later translated into English. (I wonder if there is a French-language version.) 
I can make this change, but I wonder if I should add it as a Canadian carol or an Indigenous-language carol (or even specifically a North American Indigenous-language or Huron/Wendat-language carol). Or can it be added to both categories (which would mean creating two new categories)? 
I'd appreciate guidance on this from a more experienced Wikipedia editor.
Thank you for your input. Bayonett (talk) 15:37, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, you can. It's quite Canadian. Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:42, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Huron Carol 

message: Can I discuss the inclusion of the secular American Christmas songs in the list of American carols? Currently, it includes Jingle Bells, Christmas Song (Chestnuts), Silver Bells and Rudolph. I am aware that the opening paragraph mentions the Christmas songs that focus on secular themes. However, in previous discussions on this page, the previous contributors made a distinction between the different kinds of songs for Christmas. If these few secular songs are included, would we need to go ahead an include Frosty, White Christmas, Let It Snow, I Wish It Could Be Christmas Every Day and other secular songs of that kind? It's a question of consistency. Yip1982 (talk) 12:24, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: You can, but do you have a reliable source that clearly states they are not carols that are not :WP:UNDUE with respect to others that state they are carols? There are many clearly secular carols ("Deck the Hall" being the most prominent, but "Here We Come A-wassailing" and others fall into this list) so you'll have to come up with a distinction other than your arbitrary sacred-secular divide. Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:54, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Agreed, those songs belong to other Christmas Music categories i.e. Winter songs and/or Christmas Novelty Songs, Popular Christmas Songs, Christmas Hit Singles and should be removed from here and placed into their relevant wiki articles and categories, which was the consensus reached by the majority of editors as evidenced by the other comments in this talk page. 
One such Reliable Source that demarcates the difference between a Christmas Carol from a Popular Christmas Song can be viewed here. 
This article should remain close to how a Christmas Carol is defined in the Christmas Carol wiki article. 37.18.134.184 (talk) 16:42, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

text: It is quite ironic that the editor above had requested a Reliable Source from another editor (also above) to remove unsourced material. That's not how things work here on Wikipedia. The burden of proof is on the individual to provide Reliable Sources if they wish to add to the article, not the other way round. This request smacks of status quo stonewalling and WP:STONEWALL, not to forget WP:OWNERSHIP. Even more so, considering this same editor's use of :WP:OR and :WP:UNDUE against many other editors' (listed above) requested improvements to the article, just in order to repel any such changes to the article, and also his continuous reverts on any such changes to the article made by other editors. Specifically when considering that there was no such citations to any of the introduction of this article until I recently added the above citation (which I was able to do as this same editor is currently serving out a block for this same behaviour on other articles). This is also not how things work here on Wikipedia. Many editors collaborate and compromise with each other to reach a consensus on how the article should be structured. It is not for any one editor to take control of the content of the article to represent his/her WP:POV alone. Consistency is important, and this article and how it is defined should be consistent with the wiki articles of Christmas carol and carol. In regard to "Here We Come A-wassailing", this is not a Christmas carol but rather a New Year carol; also, it is not secular. It retains the lyrics "And God bless you and send you a Happy New Year, And God send you a Happy New Year."37.18.134.184 (talk) 13:13, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Carols and Christmas songs 

message: OK. Here's why I did what I did. All the other lists are defined by language, except English. Since there is huge crossover in music between the USA and the UK, it made sense to merge them and keep the format consistent. Serendipodous 18:51, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merging the English lists 

message: The heading "Scottish" really ought too be "Gaelic".  There are three languages natively spoken in Scotland: Gaelic, Scots and Scottish English.  Do others agree? Martin of Sheffield (talk) 20:32, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scottish