Talk:John S. Mosby

message: One line initally said that on December 23, 1853 Mosby was pardoned "as a Christmas present." I removed the Christmas present comment because Christmas was not celebrated in the United States until 1870, when President Grant made it an official holiday.
: You're joking, right? Christmas has been celebrated for many centuries. A federal holiday merely allows government workers a day off with pay and has no direct effect on the celebration of a religious holiday (which it was when Mosby was pardoned). Hal Jespersen 02:18, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why I made the change 

message: I have read somewhere that Lewis Powell, the Lincoln assassin conspirator, was somehow affiliated with Mosby's Rangers. Any truth to this? Dr. Dan 16:38, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  True or Not True? 

message: It says he was captured and imprisoned for ten days. Was he exchanged? Did he escape? Clarityfiend 21:01, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Exchanged. Hal Jespersen 00:53, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Release details? 

message: The History Channel had a special on him and mentioned that out of a large number of prisoners, seven were selected to die by passing a hat around with marked strips of paper. Some were to be shot, others hanged, in direct proportion to how Mosby's men died. Some of the ones who were shot survived and were allowed to return to Federal lines as a warning. This should probably be included. I didn't make the edit directly because I don't have all the facts marshalled together.
Reply: The above account was broadly confirmed by Ed Bearss (see Wikipedia article), the former Chief Historian of the National Park Service, who now conducts the Smithsonian's Civil War tours. I have edited this section of the article, which previously spoke of Mosby threatening retaliation but never carrying it out, directly in line with Bearss's commentary (three hanged, two shot but not killed, two escaped). Bearss, incidentally, questions whether the Union forces who had executed Mosby's men did in fact come from Custer's unit (though Mosby himself evidently believed this and held it against Custer).Nandt1 12:35, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Executing Prisoners in Retalliation for Custer Killing Prisoners 

message: Note: many sources state, to the contrary, that Mosby executed a comparable number of Custer's men -- this anomaly in the article needs to be resolved authoritatively. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.110.25.157 (talk • contribs) 
Reply: See note above. Nandt1 12:37, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  anomaly 

message: Mullhawk (talk) 22:31, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Monuments & Memorials 

message: Please review the intro paragraph, which I've re-couched, and included a link to his Battalion command (the 43rd Virginia Cavalry). Mosby and his men were regulars in the Confederate Army, not partisans. His unit, the 43rd, did use guerilla or commando type tactics. It's a far stretch to say that he used "partisan" tactics, but I left that part in. It's also a far stretch to say that he used "ranger" tactics, but I left that in too, due to the fact of the nickname for the Battalion. But militarily speaking, he used purely commando tactics. It is incorrect to say that his Battalion was an actual partisan unit because a partisan unit is made up of ... partisans ... not regular forces enlisted properly the roll calls and records of the CS Army. Similarly today the SEALS, the Green Berets, Delta Force, the Marines, etc are not "partisan" forces even though they may employ either uncoventional methods, or conduct conduct commando-type raids. The British Marines use the correct title of Royal Commando for their units, for example. Anyway, for future contributors, please be aware of the differences.
Regards to all, Grayghost01 (talk) 03:30, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Partisan or Regular? 

message: A contributor recently suggested that the two Union prisoners who managed to escape execution at the hands of Mosby's men did so "presumably with the assistance of their would-be executioners".  This presumption is, however, entirely speculative and not supported by Major Boyle's scholarly account.  In one of the two cases, the executioner's pistol misfired, and the prisoner took advantage of the situation to strike his captor and run for it.  No indication of collusion here.  The other case is less well-explained ("at some point in the trek" it is reported, the prisoner escaped), but these is no indication of any collusion here either. On this basis, I have removed the speculative and unsupported statement from the Wikipedia article.Nandt1 (talk) 02:03, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Scott's Memoirs, and also the 43rd Regimental history, say Captain Mountjoy released two of the men who had drawn lots  condemning them to execution becuase they were Masons, and substituted two of his own prisoners (for which Mosby rebuked him). Also, one prisoner who was shot did not die of the wound; another they intended to shoot surprised and attacked his captor and made good his escape.  I put this in as succinctly as I could BUT, see comment below on balance.ElijahBosley (talk) 23:39, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Escape of two prisoners 

message: On the article on the Shenandoah River under Geography I posted an account of a cave on the banks of the river said to be where Mosby's raiders hid from pursuing Federals.  My source was a book called Mosby's Raiders published in 1944, a footnote in which in turn cites a Union assistant surgeon who was there when the cave was discovered, quoted in an undated newspaper clipping in a private collection, which at this point is not traceable.  The book is fairly specific with details about what the cave looked like, including a trap door entrance in a burnt-out house on the bluff above it (which makes sense since Mosby would never have trapped himself  and his men underground in a place with only one narrow entrance).  But--reading the  43rd Battalian Virginia Cavalry Mosby's Command regimental history (Lynchburg: H.E Howard 1993) I find no mention of any such cave.  Instead it looks like after any raid in the Shenandoah Valley they rode back over the mountain to return to the farms around Middleburg and Upperville where they were welcomed, blending into the populace, each partisan to a farm where he would be safe.  Reading some of the memoirs from which 43rd Battalian was drawn I find the same: mention of several secret closets or attics with hidden doors where rangers would hide, but no cave.  One, a memoir by Major John Scott  published in 1867 has charming interlineations in fading brown ink where apparently an ex-ranger reading about himself had corrected the author' account, inserted names, altered details. They were rpoud of their exploits, and I see no reason for them to suppress the story fo the cave, unless maybe they thoughtb the South Would Rise Again and they'd be back hiding out there.  Doubtful. I think if there were a cave one of these memoirs would have said so.  Any of you Mosby experts know about a cave? ElijahBosley (talk) 22:22, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mosby's Cave 

message: *In the article's group photo ("Mosby's Rangers," third photo down), the caption to the photo says "right to left" in giving the names. This clearly doesn't match up with the photo and the source link to the photo clearly describes the names in the usual "left to right" manner: http://www.archive.org/stream/photographichist04mill#page/n170/mode/1up   .Harry Yelreh (talk) 06:43, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I honestly don't remember...I may have made a mistake :? You may be on to something :)⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 07:06, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mosby's Rangers photo caption 

message: I'll leave this edit since the editor supplied a citation, but I think it oversimplified and misleading. There is a debate, with sound reasoning on both sides, about whether partisans who strike and then disappear into the civilan population should be treated honorably as soldiers and POWs, or dishonorably as criminals, killers and thieves.  The question was debated on both sides during the Civil War: several of the more conventional Southern generals disapproved of Mosby's seemingly unsoldierly tactics and tried to get his unit dissolved, a recommendation which General Lee himself endorsed and forwarded to Richmond.   The question "who is a legitimate soldier?" recurred in the Korean War when the North Koreans refused to recognize the legitimacy of American soldiers and denied them the protections of the Geneva Conventions, in Vietnam when the US did the same to the Viet Cong, in Iraq, and it recurs to this day with the controversial US decision not to treat so-called terrorists wherever they may be found (because they don't wear a uniform) as protected by the Geneva Conventions. The debate cannot be reduced to the simple thesis: without a uniform they deserve to be hanged.ElijahBosley (talk ☞)  15:10, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: there is nothing "misleading" or "oversimplified" here about Grant's order. The issue ElijahBosley raises is whether the order is acceptable  in terms of the Geneva conventions made a century later. That is speculation & OR and forbidden by Wiki rules. Rjensen (talk) 04:02, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: On reflection, editor Rjensen is right. The General Grant quote added to the article is a good addition and should stay.  The quote sets up the conundrum of partisans "out of uniform" nicely, a conundrum which persists and indeed has gotten even more difficult in the modern era. I confess I had not read the rest of that section when I added my two cents' worth to this talk page, and I now see that the issue balances out nicely. Editor Rjensen deserves a pat on the back for adding the quote, and hereby gets one from me.ElijahBosley (talk ☞)  14:30, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: thanks--it's good to see we are on the same wavelength. Rjensen (talk) 19:52, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  "captured out of uniform" 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I've added some material on Mosby's later career using a well-reviewed book published 30-some years ago, but don't have huge interest in/time for genealogical research. Still, basic facts involving Mosby's wife and children are IMHO important in an article such as this. In relating the incident in which President Jackson refused and General Grant granted Mrs. Mosby's request for documentation to reduce ongoing harassment of her paroled husband, Mosby says she was accompanied by his young son Revardy. This is actually a real boy's name in Virginia, but most sources give the child's name as Beverley (again a real boy's name in Virginia). Anyone willing to fill in an explanation, or do the research?Jweaver28 (talk) 21:26, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Family names 

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