Talk:Dysgraphia

message: I hope that school teachers will read this page.  Because from the many comments here it is very clear that you are failing to help us in many ways. We don't need your criticism, and we don't need to be humiliated for our lack of ability, we just need for you to be a little bit less ignorant and a lot more compassionate. The problem is real and coercing us won't make it go away. 71.35.162.190 (talk) 00:07, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: 100% Asturnut (talk) 02:45, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

text: One could technically put a short paragraph in the article about that, but expect it to be removed quickly if there is no reference to back it up. Maybe try and find a study or a news article pointing the system's lack of support for dysgraphia. I'll do that now. If I can't find anything, I won't add it to the article. Anyone is welcome to, though, but as I say, expect it to be removed at any time. --BurritoBazooka (talk) 22:46, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Plea to Teachers 

message: I was diagnosed with Dysgraphia many years ago and one thing that I notice quite often that is not discussed in this article is the lack of distinction between homophones, is there anything we can say about this?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.100.87.22 (talk) 16:07, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Homophones

message: I have seen refrinces to "strange cramps" but nothing much more, i have not really seen dysgraphia in many books anyways!  And EVERY dysgraphic i have talked to, i mean had a long talk with has said... yeah it does hurt, but i thought it was just hand cramps.  then i ask them, do other cramps feel like that?  and they say no.  Besides information about dysgraphia is offten just wrong, why shouldn't a bunch of people WITH it oppions count more then "exsperts" who have not done much resurch about it asumptions!   
So that is what i think and if you don't like it you will hurt my feelings?   
oh and it's REALLY cool to hear from some one who has a PHD and dysgraphia by the way!  Actuly it's good to hear from ALL of you!!! To see that your out there!
-lee--lee84w
I have the pain symptom too though I guess I am quite a mild case. I have always hated handwriting, because it always turned out very bad-looking and illegible. Mind that I have a PhD degree (thanks to the keyboards! ;-)) --MirandaSpider 13:08, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion

message: i want to know if it has anything to do with playing the guitar. because i have been diagnosed with disgraphea but i shred the guitar.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.191.36.25 (talk) 22:56, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: that is the thing about it. it is not necissarily a problem with all fine motor skills. I play french horn, which requires a lot of fine control, but i am dysgraphic. it only affects my writing. i just have a problem making shapes when i am processing them as symbols with meaning. it feels like, in my head, there should be a connection between the parts of my brain that think about letters and the part that controls my hand, but it has been severed. i know that is probably not how it works, but that is the best way of describing it. and as for it being genetic, my mother, grandfather, and cousin all have it.
I am glad too that this pag exists. I think Dysgraphia is often inaccurately described as a "learning disability". In the case of adults its not.  I have had good writing up till the age of 45 (I am 59). When it first set in, I was very alarmed at what was happening (not knowing what was happening) and practiced my handwriting to improve it without much success. Obviously, this was very distressing and I didnt know the condition existed till today when I read about it on the Wikipedia. I found that when I use an awkward grip on the pen (holding the pen between the lowest joint of my index finger and my thumb)my writing and comfort improved, but still very untidy. When I write with a marker pen on a whiteboard, my writing is perfectly normal and I dont get fatigue. I cant explain this. It could be that the the way I hold the  marker which is very different to a pen.  I am most interested in reading other sufferers' experience with this strange condition and I hope medical science will turn its attention to finding a standard cure.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mike2009a (talk • contribs) 23:35, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Fine Motor Skills

message: me as well. im suffering from disgraphia too. my right hand always failed in writing im begun to noticed it when im on my high school days but now im an employee, few people only know about this. i know it's very rare. i also get fracture in my right arm when im 12 yrs old and its very worse, my bones broke and it gives the stress im feeling now it gives big contribution in my writing disability. what i get is 16 stitches and i know im not normal anymore like my friends its very disavantage for me. I tried to practice my left hand in writing but when im already get it i get bone fractured again in my left wrist while playing basketball. i get 8 stitches and a titanium metal inside to support the bones it is more worse than my right hand i cannot lift any more heavier than 7 lbs., i cannot use any on my hands anymore,it backs to zero again and again. sometimes destiny is bad. i hate writing. when im child i had a potential in drafting and drawing many say that i will be best in that field someday, but it lost and gone now...i had no potential anymore since both of my arms are injured. thanks God. it makes my life like hell.
-heavy arms(philippines)
sorry to hear this...  depending on what type of work you are doing, your best bet could be to get a speech recognition system.  If you want to do drawing, most of it is done by computer now any way, using CAD.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.35.162.190 (talk) 23:54, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  disgraphia.. 

message: I'm begging to suspect I have this, any aid in letting me know for sure?
: I went to my doctor because of the pain I felt after writing, who then sent me to a specialist physiician lady, who told me about dysgraphia. Maybe you could do the same? I live in England, however, so this could be different to where you are. Sorry if that was pointless and obvious, and good luck. Voici 19:09, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Any way of checking if you have dysgraphia? 

message: I know someone who has dysgraphia. She can read and understand perfectly well, and she can write--in the sense of composition; in other words, she can dictate a letter or exam answer perfectly. But she cannot mechanically spell or write, be it by hand or on a keyboard. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.132.233.128 (talk) 00:55, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Symptoms 

message: This seems far to much like advertisements to me, especially the first part, however I dont want to get rid of it personally , because someone allways blames me for vandalism.
"People who struggle with symptoms of dysgraphia usually benefit from vision therapy. Seventy percent of what a child learns in school is processed through the visual system. Even a minor visual processing problem will interfere with a child or adult performing to their potential and could cause symptoms of dysgraphia. 
Symptoms of Vision Problems:
Avoidance of near work 
Frequent loss of place 
Omits, inserts, or rereads letters/words 
Confuses similar looking words 
Failure to recognize the same word in the next sentence  
If you or your child experiences any of the above, P.A.V.E.®  (Parents Active for Vision Education) recommends a learning related vision examination by a behavioral optometrist.
Optometric visual training, frequently called vision therapy or VT, is that part of optometric care devoted to developing, improving and enhancing people's visual performance. Clinical studies on the use and effectiveness of vision therapy are available. 
Any struggling student should have a complete evaluation by a behavioral optometrist. Testing should be done at distance and nearpoint to assure that both eyes are working together as a team. Vision is more than clarity, and is a complex combination of learned skills, including tracking, fixation, focus change, binocular fusion and visualization. When all of these are well developed, children and adults can sustain attention, read and write without careless errors, give meaning to what they hear and see, and rely less on movement to stay alert.
To find a qualified Behavioral Optometrist, please visit the (COVD) and the (OEP) websites. 
1.College of Optometrists in Vision Development (COVD) 
This organization serves as the certifying body for Doctors in the Optometric specialty called Behavioral/Developmental/Rehabilitative Optometry. If a doctor chooses, he/she may apply for COVD fellowship after successfully completing a Residency program in Vision Therapy or Binocular Vision or after three years as a Behavioral Clinician. Fellowship is difficult to obtain and is only granted after interviews, publishing and knowledge testing is completed and accepted by a committee. Fellows are certified specialists in vision therapy. If you would like to go directly to their membership directory, click here. http://www.covd.org/membersearch.php
2. Optometric Extension Program (OEP) Foundation 
The OEP Foundation is an international non-profit organization that serves the educational needs of behavioral optometrists by providing continuing education credits and provides public information about vision care. If you would like to go directly to their referral list of doctors, click here. http://www.healthy.net/oep/OEPSearch.htm"
/end previous comment.
Are these conclusions widely accepted?  
It could be a very useful section, if the opinions can be documented with more external links.  Also, shift the tone to neutral point of view(NPOV) and express it an encyclopedic manner.  For length purposes, is moving it to an article stub appropriate?  Nickalh50 (talk) 03:30, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: advertiseing

message: Hi,
I added the POV and Unreferenced section tags to this section, but could have added several more — I just stopped after those two.  There are several things objectionable in this section:
* No citations to support claims {"People who struggle with symptoms of dysgraphia usually benefit from vision therapy")
* Includes specific recommendations ("Any struggling student should have a complete evaluation by a behavioral optometrist.")  
* Uses 2nd person ("you"), which is unencyclopedic ("If you or your child experiences any of the above ...") 
* No citations for statements of (supposed) fact  ("When all of these are well developed, children and adults can sustain attention, read and write without careless errors, give meaning to what they hear and see, and rely less on movement to stay alert.")
In addition, the use of Vision Therapy as a reading or writing intervention is highly controversial.  At a minimum, this section should include a statement about the controversy, perhaps including which types of organizations endorse vision therapy and which vehemently assert that using the therapy as an intervention for reading and writing is not supported by research. 
Best,
Rosmoran 00:16, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tags added to section titled "Learning related vision problems" 

message: I think this article needs quite a bit of work in terms of references throughout--Vannin 06:21, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: References needed

message: I see two problems with this article:
# The quality of its sources is below average, and they don't entirely support what the article states. Sources range from brief dictionary definitions (which don't support the details in the article) to some random website from a school psychologist, which is not peer-reviewed. The best source is from NINDS, but it's way shorter and less detailed than Wikipedia's claims.
# The example picture was taken by a Wikipedian and shows her own handwriting. It doesn't show anything worse than poor handwriting. Many doctors have terrible handwriting and don't suffer from dysgraphia. As it is, we have to take this Wikipedian at her word. A picture from a reputable medical site would be a better option.
201.231.81.53 (talk) 02:26, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dubious sources and example image 

message: Wikipedian User:Benlisquare and myself have written an article about a phenomenon called character amnesia whereby people who communicate in written Japanese or Chinese and who predominantly use cellphones and computers to do so are reporting increasing difficulty remembering how to write those characters by hand, sometimes even common characters. These people often have to have their cellphone handy as a reference whenever they try to write out a note by hand. In the first sentence the phenomenon is described as a form of dysgraphia, because its nice to have a word for things and because a reliable source (NYT article) calls it that. I figure you guys have more experience with this term then I do. In your opinion, is this an acceptable use of the term "dysgraphia"? Metal.lunchbox (talk) 20:14, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other uses of Dysgraphia, acceptable or not? 

message: I am a student working on this page as assignment, I am hoping to add more information about the different types of Dysgraphia, symptoms, school aid, and what the cause of Dysgraphia is. I am not limiting myself to those topics, but I feel they are the most important aspects of the page at this point in time. If you have any other suggestions please let me know =)
Hkyoung01 (talk) 19:56, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Student Editing Project 

message: In addition to numerous uncited statements, and giving advice on teaching (which Wikipedia shouldn't do), this article fails to follow WP:MEDMOS and WP:MEDRS.  There are numerous recent secondary journal reviews on dysgraphia available on PubMed, and this article should not be sourced to advocacy organizations and online dictionaries.  Here is info on how to find the kinds of sources required for medical articles on Wikipedia:  Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2008-06-30/Dispatches.  Some page numbers are also missing on book sources, which could easily be replaced by recent secondary medical journal reviews anyway.  SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:13, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Faulty sourcing 

message: More medically and psychologically appropriate literature exists and should be cited here. I also agree that In The Classroom section should be specific about who recommends the particular suggestions made about how to teach these children. It is not only American children who have IEPs, though they are not used in all countries.
I believe the Causes section can be organized more clearly to reflect the multiple sources that may contribute to this problem, including motor, attention, memory (both working and executive functions) and language-specific issues such as orthographic coding. I don't think the paragraph needs to be much longer, but more coherent in its presentation of these issues and the specific ramifications in dysgraphia. For example, it says "Dysgraphia is not only a motor problem" but  the first sentence says that it is a problem of working memory. By emphasizing that this is a problem with multiple causes, it would enable the reader to build a more nuanced understanding.
Can someone from Wikiland advise about the double set of references? I assume one set can be removed, but am certain which style is preferred. If someone can point me to wiki standards on this, that would be helpful. I am a newbie and finding my way with my students.
Paula Marentette (talk) 22:54, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, the references only need to be listed once (Guideline WP:FNNR). maclean (talk) 00:14, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  revisions for Good Article 

message: The article in it's current form (2011-11-24) asserts that Dysgraphia is hard to detect.  I disagree with this, at least in the case of Motor-Dysgraphia it should be very easy to detect, all it takes is for the teacher (often overburdened, I know) to pay attention to what is in front of them.  Actually I did end up with a limited amount of extra tutoring when learning how to print, but beyond a certain point my writing never improved and I never mastered cursive writing.  It should be very apparent to the teacher when a student can not hand-write or takes much longer than peers, to write, just look at their paper, instead of dunning them for not being able to stay within the lines, ask why aren't they able to stay within the lines.  It should also be pretty obvious when a student is experiencing hand cramps, if you see someone shaking their hand in class while writing you ought to consider that a major flag of difficulty.  The other major red-flag that was totally ignored in my case, is when a student is consistently failing spelling tests.  It is very easy to detect when a student is unable to learn how to spell, you just have to look at their test scores.  The key is to not be dismissive of the students efforts, it is very easy to observe when a student is having more than normal problems, it is also very easy to just hand out scores... but unless the teacher takes the time to ask why is the student having problems, it will go undiagnosed; but it's not from the lack of evidence, it is from the lack of paying attention to the evidence.  As a further observation, teachers at my school knew all about dyslexia and I was probably tested for it.  But because I did not have any difficulty with reading, they were dismissive of my difficulties with writing and spelling, they seemed unaware of Dysgraphia...  Which actually is a major premise of this talk page, all of these people with Dysgraphia, many of them giving accounts of how their teachers lacked knowledge of it's existence and consequently ignored or dismissed the students difficulties. 67.40.212.131 (talk) 00:44, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dysgraphia is (NOT) a hard disorder to detect 

message: It seems that the DSM V no longer mentions dysgraphia by that name, instead bringing the diagnosis under the more general heading Specific Learning Disorder. The definition is also altered from what is presented in the intro to the article as written; it is now clear in the DSM for instance that Specific Learning Disorder includes difficulty with grammar and spelling among its diagnostic criteria, but not difficulty with the mechanical process of writing.
I imagine there are many other articles that have been impacted by DSM updates, so I'm hesitant to just jump in and make changes. Is there any accepted policy for how articles like this one should change as the DSM changes?
Personman (talk) 09:07, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reclassification in the DSM V 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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