Talk:White British

message: Jewish people are also defined to be White British by the United Kingdom Census.
Does this mean Oona King qualifies as white?! Timrollpickering 17:40, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I am, frankly, quite surprised that the Turks are classified as white in Britain. It seems that Britain is vastly different from other European countries in this respect. --217.172.29.5 20:16, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: please american south european don't equal to south american. Indigenious people of all europe are white!!!!!!!!!!so yes even the southern europeans are white, they haven't dark skin like iranian or indian people or south american people!!They're differents!! go to Spain, Portugal, Italy , Croatia etc... people are white here, yes they have suntan, they live in the south, but still white!! they also are blond hair, with blue or green eyes and even red haired people with freckles in south europe !!! this is Europe!!!not america!!Fol2choco (talk) 00:22, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: By your definition then nearly all Chinese, Japanese and Koreans are White as well. 86.178.230.146 (talk) 20:41, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Both of the statements above are misleading. Some South American countries do have a significant portion of whites. 47% of the population of Brazil is white, from there were several German, Austrian, Polish, white Jewish, Italian, Swiss, French, Spanish, Norwegian and Ukrainian immigrants, although the Brazilian government insists in portraying the country as 'black' for political purposes. Many Europeans from the South are indeed white, not 'tanned', except for a portion of them which was mixed due to invasions. Besides, the skin of an Asian, even when lighter, does not have the same complexion as the skin of a non-mixed white, nor do they have the same eyes, nose and cranial features. Whoever stated that the other user tried to make a definition of white is wrong because he didn't made that attempt, he just described some traits such as 'blonde hair' etc which a non-mixed Asian could never naturally have, and that's perfectly common sense.--191.180.102.168 (talk) 05:28, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: All Jewish people?

message: Is Wilde the best choice for a picture? Under modern rules, given his political views, he might well be classified as 'White Irish' (people in NI who identify as Irish are). 134.226.1.62 11:50, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Wilde

message: Margaret Thatcher Picture? --Collingwood50 (talk) 19:57, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Margaret Thatcher Picture?

message: In the 2001 census the category 'White British' is a sub-category of the group 'White'.  The others being 'White Irish' and 'Other White'.  The information given relates to the whole group i.e. 'White' as opposed to 'White British'. For example 92.1% of the population is 
'White British' + 'White Irish' + 'Other White' = 92.1% if you see what I mean.  Therefore this article doesn't actually descibe the group 'White British' at all.  I appreciate that this is entirely down to the ONS refusing to break down the figures for the 'White' group, even though they routinely do this for other groups.
Romper 01:44, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually the article now claims that 92% (54 million) of the population is White, not White British, and has done for a little while. I know because I made the change. Be that as it may, there is a source that claims that there were 50 million "White British" people in the UK in 2001 (this would be about 86%). The source is not more specific that this figure. with a link to The different experiences of the United Kingdom’s ethnic and religious populations. Alun 14:16, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Is this article correct?

message: An infobox for ethnic groups was removed recently on the grounds that "White British" were not an ethnic group. Considering this tag is applied fairly liberally to other groups, exactly what denies it this status?--Breadandcheese 01:32, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ethnic group 

message: An infobox is needed here. Lord of Moria Talk Contribs 14:33, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you think it would be a good idea to have an infobox for UK census categories? We would have to have a different infobox per census because the categories change from census to census. It's not a bad idea though, an infobox dealing with demographics that can be used in any UK census category article might be an useful thing. Would you like to have a go at making one? I just removed an ethnic group info box, that's for the simple reason that this article is not about an ethnic group. As it says clearly at the head of this article "This article is about the UK census classification", and census classifications are not the same as ethnic identity. Alun (talk) 19:57, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: infobox

message: "25% of the total UK population or approximately 14 million of the white British claim Irish descent"
Is that 25% "white British" or 25% of "white", "white Scottish", "Other White British" and "white British"? (taken from the earlier paragraph: "In Scotland the classification was broken down into two different categories: 'White Scottish' and 'Other White British'. The classification did not appear in Northern Ireland where the comparable classification is described simply as 'White'.")
If only white British then it should say "25% of the total English and Welsh population ..." --PBS (talk) 10:13, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow, nice piece of deductive reasoning ;) Alun (talk) 06:17, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  25% 

message: I have removed Islam and Judaism as major white British religions as they are both obvacly fule as the larger of the 2 relegon is islam which is 2.7 of the population, with a perstentage that low there is no way that there is a large (significant) number of white British muslims. Beyond the 75% is 17% non religion. Alexsau1991 (talk) 21:35, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Major Religion 

message: Whilst i do not object to the title changes tonight, i did find it rather funny. Will we be moving Black British and British Pakistanis to something along the same lines? Why stop there though, how about we move the English people Scottish people and Welsh people to the same sort of thing too? lol. 
As someone that would define myself as "White British" should i take offense that only the articles on White Brits or mixed race are being changed to this sort of title? As someone that spends alot of time bashing the disgusting BNP, it pains me to say it but they do sort of have a point on these matters dont they :) What amazing double standards. 
And i said to myself, what a wonderful world....   BritishWatcher (talk) 23:43, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not double standards. Articles such as Black British discuss the wider use of that term, whereas the White British article is primarily about the census term. English people Scottish people and Welsh people are all terms used beyond the census. However, I concede that White British may have wider usage, so I wouldn't object to you moving it back. Note that I also moved the Other White article to Other White (United Kingdom ethnicity category) for a similar reason. I also moved British Mixed-Race to Mixed (United Kingdom ethnicity category) since the ONS simply used "Mixed". Cordless Larry (talk) 23:58, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  lol dont worry was just a general comment more about the real world than here on wikipedia, i agree White British isnt a term often used except for the census.  I do find it interesting that  British Pakistanis British Asians , British Jews  are treated as proper groups with an infobox etc but we do not deem White British to be anything other than a term. Anyway i wont be making changes or moves, up to others if they are against this change, i see why it was done and dont oppose it, just found it amusing. BritishWatcher (talk) 00:11, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Much of the British people article seems to be about White British people, particularly the "ancestral roots" section. I guess the reason why White British is less used is because minority groups tend to attract labels more than the majority population due to the way people understand ethnicity. Could be related to the way in which some people use the term "ethnic" only when they refer to ethnic minorities. Also, it might have something to do with often Britishness being a civic as opposed to an ethnic identification (as you mention, there are articles for English people and so on). Cordless Larry (talk) 00:16, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  You make good points yes, even Griffin and the BNP use ethnically - "English", "Scottish", "Irish" and "Welsh" to define what they class as British, although i guess i must have missed the lesson telling me my ethnicity is English. :) BritishWatcher (talk) 00:25, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

text: This is a terrible move. There is no need whatsoever for disambiguation as there is no other page with the same name. --Breadandcheese (talk) 01:10, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, given the opposition I've moved it back again. I take the point about not needing to disambiguate, although I think that editors need reminding that the article is about an ethnicity classification used in the census because lots of material had been added on the genetic history of Britain that didn't belong here. That was my aim with the page move. Cordless Larry (talk) 07:48, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Personally I'm disappointed it's been moved back, though I understand Breadandcheese's reasoning.  Having an unspecific title will, I think, make it inevitable that some editors will try and re-include irrelevant material which is best covered elsewhere.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:37, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Since this is obviously contentious, I'm going to suggest the move so that it can be discussed in full. Cordless Larry (talk) 17:57, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lmao @ the page move 

message: :The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 
The result of the proposal was no consensus to move the page, per the discussion below. Please note that the addition of parentheticals is deprecated when the plain title is not in use. Dekimasuよ! 08:41, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: White British → White British (United Kingdom ethnicity category) — - I previously made this move but have moved the article back because it was more controversial than I anticipated (see above). I'm now suggesting it so that it can be discussed in full. The rationale for the move is that the article is about the use of the term White British as a category in ethnicity statistics, rather than White British people in the more general sense (e.g. White British pupils). Cordless Larry (talk) 18:04, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

text: The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal.  Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Oops - blinked and missed this.  Would have supported a move, obviously.  Hey ho.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:59, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

text: I was thinking that the discussion was closed somewhat early - only 12 hours after the first contribution. Cordless Larry (talk) 09:15, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I somehow missed the fact that it was up to be moved - first I knew was when the discussion was closed!  Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:47, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move (2009) 

message: Does White British mean or include people descended from recent immigrants from other European countries or does it mean people descended from people living in the UK centuries ago?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.174.18.206 (talk • contribs) 14:36, 8 December 2009
:Official statistics on ethnicity rely on the individual's self-categorisation (see Classification of ethnicity in the United Kingdom), so the category included whoever decided to tick the 'White British' box on the census. Cordless Larry (talk) 15:23, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly so you can't exclude recent immigrants.  I have reversed the edit.--Snowded TALK  10:07, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Our IP is now edit warring his position if someone else whats to take this up.  I have issued the warning.  The same editor also vandalised two other pages so it may just need a block. if any admin is watching  --Snowded TALK  10:52, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I've reported it at WP:AIV.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:57, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  What the term means. 

message: I am curious as to why we do not have a page regarding white Britons and their cultural achievements, whilst we do have one for white Americans. If we do decide to do this, please don't let Noobs take control of the project. --BoJackson34 (talk) 02:32, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: As the start of the article states, "This article is about the United Kingdom census classification."  Matters such as cultural achievements are at the article on British people.  The section on Culture in White American is very brief, unreferenced, and in my view unnecessary - but that is up to other editors.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:55, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Curious... 

message: :
Well, what ratings do you propose? Since White British amount to 85% percent of the UK population, I would have thought they would be given a high rating and I don't see how a Top importance isn't warranted. For ethnic groups, that project's rating system isn't too well organised but many ethnic groups there are given a High rating. Christopher Connor (talk) 22:03, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: There are only 31 articles classified as top importance in the UK WikiProject. British people is one of them and I don't see why a census ethnicity category that accounts for most of those people needs to be there as well. I'd suggest that the article is of mid importance. Cordless Larry (talk) 22:06, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The article is about the group of people described as "White British". It isn't just about the census classification (that is only used to define it). If British people are top importance, I don't see how 85% of that suddenly means it's only Mid importance. You were very quick to revert, before re-reverting minus the importance. Christopher Connor (talk) 22:11, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not the 85 per cent figure that makes the group not of top importance, but I dispute the argument that the fact that lots of people fall into this category makes it inherently important. An article on British people is clearly important in relation to the UK, whereas a loose grouping of people based on race or ethnicity is less so. How about we settle for high importance? I accept that it's a relatively important topic, but don't think it meets the description "of the utmost importance to this project, as it forms the basis of all information" given to the top importance category. Cordless Larry (talk) 22:16, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I reverted quickly because I have the article on my watchlist and happened to be online when you made the edit. I re-added the banners minus the importance rating because that was I that I intended to contest. Cordless Larry (talk) 22:17, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The White British people built the country and are its foundation. I know that many (and not just white nationalists) would differ with your assessment but High importance is fine for me (in the interests of keeping peace), though would prefer Top. Perhaps we can let other members of UK Project decide? Christopher Connor (talk) 22:21, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Some white British people may have done, but many, including myself, have done nothing to "build the country" but were simply born here in an already-existing country and don't particularly see much relevance in skin colour. I don't see how such questions are relevant to the rating of the article though. I will raise the issue at Wikipedia talk:UK Wikipedians' notice board to get the opinions of others. Cordless Larry (talk) 22:27, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: A lengthy history in constructing the country is not relevant to how important the group is to the country? That seems to make little sense. Christopher Connor (talk) 22:36, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: My point is that while the people who built the UK, whatever that means, may have been largely "White British" (though that is a relatively recent term), they did so as individuals rather than as a group. Cordless Larry (talk) 22:40, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

text: I agree that that is a potential problem, although my hunch is that "Black British" and "British Asian" are terms that many people actively identify with, whereas "White British" isn't one that people would use to describe themselves so much and is therefore more limited in use to settings such as the census. Cordless Larry (talk) 22:48, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  This is true, minority groups are encouraged to identify with their skin colour, something that is seen as politically unacceptable for white people, not just in Britain. Id rather everyone just considered themselves British and these were all just terms for forms.  BritishWatcher (talk) 22:59, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, that's not really what I was saying. My guess would be that the majority of white people in the UK identify as English/Scottish/Welsh etc., whereas members of minorities have found it difficult to be accepted as part of these categories due to them being seen as ethnic rather than civic identities. That's where Britishness comes in, albeit often in hyphenated form. Cordless Larry (talk) 23:02, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

text: my view...Project rating should be High to Mid ..not Top ..Top would be the main Ethnic group article for the country/area as a whole --> Ethnic groups in the United Kingdom..then all sub articles rated bellow the main one. Each project should only have very few top articles..like the  introductory/main jumping off articles. Moxy (talk) 23:09, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with CordlessLarry, in general the only people who self identify as "White British" tend to be those of a far right persuasion.  I've never really understood why this article even exists, but if it has to then its low priority.  Its not a commonly used term.  --Snowded TALK  13:10, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with "low priority" - it essentially deals with a census indicator. Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:01, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: But should this article be more about the census indicator than other similar articles? If it is mainly that, then of course it's not too important. Is this article 75% percent census / 25% people and the others the other way? How would someone go about applying the importance to all the ethnic articles? Christopher Connor (talk) 00:47, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it should, for the reasons outlined above. Whereas Black British, for instance, is a term that many people actively identity with, White British isn't. White British people are more likely to describe themselves as British people, or English people or whatever, so I don't think the articles are comparable. One solution might be to create an article on the Black British census category that would be equivalent to this article, distinct from the existing Black British article. Or we could just merge all of the articles that only discuss a census ethnicity category into Classification of ethnicity in the United Kingdom. Cordless Larry (talk) 08:04, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd agree with low-to-mid, erring towards low. As already stated, this is a simple article about a census classification, nothing more. "White British" is not a term I have heard used anywhere else (probably because the majority have no need to identify as a minority group!). Let's stop trying to turn a simple page rating into something else. GyroMagician (talk) 10:44, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going to rate it as mid importance, since that seems to be the average of the suggestions here. Cordless Larry (talk) 10:46, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: No problem, I realise the article has more of a census-driven approach rather than a people one. Christopher Connor (talk) 11:19, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Project ratings 

message: Does the term British refer to citizen/passport or ancestry/cultural identity? 86.156.196.244 (talk) 16:42, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: UK ethnicity classifications are based solely on the respondent's self-identification. Someone is classified as White British if that's what they choose to identify as. For further explanation, see Classification of ethnicity in the United Kingdom. Cordless Larry (talk) 15:39, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Difference between White British and White Other. 

message: while there is a term called "white other" this article should be more logical as for example a british pole or a british italian are just as white as all other white people in britain, the defention of white people in britain should include everyone white Lightpositive talk 11:11, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: And by the way if you look on the United kingdom article it also says that white people is 92.1 percent of the whole population in britain Lightpositive talk 11:16, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

text: According to this p. 7, first results will be released September 2012. And in the census form, under "White" they have British, Irish, Gypsy and Irish Traveller, and any other white background. So it seems El0i was right. Christopher Connor (talk) 16:34, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thank you for confirming. El0i (talk) 16:44, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

text: (ec) For the benefit of both the above editors. To clarify this article is about the meaning of the term 'White British' which is a self-designated ethnic category distinct from the other two White definitions used in the UK population analysis; 'White Irish' and 'White Other'. Logic does not come into determining the article as it is based on the ethnic category definition and white people who are from Poland would normally be a member of the White Other ethnic grouping. The 2001 UK census is the most recent national census for which data is available. The ONS provide annual midyear estimates of population changes from the 2001 census. The first official estimates based on the 2011 Census will not be available until probably midway through 2012. The 2011 Census still contains self categorisations of White British; White Irish and White Irish and for the first time the categories of 'White Gypsy/Irish Traveller'. Tmol42 (talk) 16:49, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: all whites in britain are White british

message: I want to know how come there is no grid with photos of white british people like there is on every other race - nationality page?--86.6.234.40 (talk) 14:18, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: That would be because nobody has made/found one. You are welcome to submit such an image. --Mrmatiko (talk) 16:03, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Such an image is not possible.  The article deals with a census category - nothing else - and, as census forms are confidential, there is no way of knowing who defines themselves as "white British".  Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:41, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: So you are telling me its not possible to know who is white british yet pages such as Black British, Asian British ,White American all have pictures?86.6.234.40 (talk) 00:05, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: As Ghmyrtle has indicated above this article is about the census category exclusively and as such it is not appropriate let alone possible for the reasons stated to have a collage of images. The other articles you refer to are not exclusively / not related to the census category so such issues do not arise.Tmol42 (talk) 16:08, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Pictures?

message: If "White British" excludes people of Irish descent, then how can Northern Ireland be 98% White British?  That doesn't make sense. Shouldn't it be more like 50-55% White British?  108.254.160.23 (talk) 03:18, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: As this data on ethnic group was gathered via the 2011 census exercise in each country / devolved administration it was open for individuals to self-classify themselves according to the ethnic group that they felt most appropriately fitted them. So their descent may or may not be the overriding consideration determining how they choose to categorise themselves. However, for Northern Ireland, due to the complexities inherent in this community the NISRA decided to offer only a single ethnic category of 'White' for all the ethnic category subsets of White, except 'Irish Traveler'. Accordingly, I have removed the entry and row of data for Northern Ireland and added a note to the table. Tmol42 (talk) 01:18, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: In my view it would be best to continue to exclude the NI figures from the total, as there is no way of knowing what proportion of the "White" population of Northern Ireland would identify themselves as "British".  Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:31, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Northern Ireland 

message: 1.will The person of mixed Turkish/polish and british ancestry be count as white british?2.What is the definition of white british? does it refer to the person of fully British descent?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nero011 (talk • contribs) 10:58, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: The UK census and other surveys rely on self-classification, so it all depends on how the person concerned sees themself (see the explanation here). Cordless Larry (talk) 11:49, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

text: Ethnicity is not an objective thing, but rather subjective, so all ethnicity statistics are "inaccurate" if what you are looking for is classification according to some objective standard. Cordless Larry (talk) 20:33, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

text: See my comments above, . The classification relies on individuals' self-definition. Cordless Larry (talk) 12:31, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

text: The government doesn't define it. The boxes appear on census and other forms without definitions, and it is up to the respondent to decide which, if any, describes their ethnic identity. Cordless Larry (talk) 10:45, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Questions... 

message: As a curiosity, are Americans, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, South Africans, etc of British extraction who migrate to the UK classified as White British or Other White?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 675930s (talk • contribs) 06:30, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: This is very old so I am not sure whether this question still wants an answer but they would come under (if they identified as 'Australian', 'Canadian' etc.) under Other White, Hope that answers this. Tweedle (talk) 15:07, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Returning colonial populations