Talk:2005 Atlantic hurricane season/Archive 22

message: When will we get the 2005 storm tracks picture in the fact box? And when we finally get the picture in there, we need to move the related articles box BELOW the fact box. It would look 200% better then. Weatherman90 02:23, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The track map will be put up once the NHC releases it.  It will be at the bottom of this page, which right now says "A seasonal track map will be available after the end of the season". --tomf688{talk} 04:11, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They might not want to make one until they get all of their best tracks done in the final reports. —BazookaJoe 19:54, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well they have since changed their notation at the bottom to "A seasonal track map will be available after all reports are complete". --tomf688{talk} 23:57, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Main Page

message: EDIT:
You guys have done a fantastic job editing this article! I think this piece of fine work should be seen and heard by every visitor of wikipedia. Do you think that this article be a narrated article? M cappeluti 09:51, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not until it becomes more stable (when all TCRs are complete and end-of-season editing is finished). Jdorje 17:54, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spoken article? 

message: On this NHC Governmental website, It supplies a list of all the names retired, and on the list is Wilma and Katrina of 2005, but no others. There is also a list of the names to be used in 2011, which has all the 2005 names intact, except for 2 blank spots...again for just Katrina and Wilma. I can't imagine them just retiring two names though. Weatherman90 01:22, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Is this site official? They may only have Katrina and Wilma as those are definite. Katrina caused severe damage, and Wilma was the strongest storm to exist in the Atlantic, so it makes sense they are definitely retired.WotGoPlunk 01:31, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah..I figure they are playing it safe, but it's still strange they would venture to take Katrina and Wilma off the list before the announcement...it just doesn't seem like something the NHC would do. Weatherman90 02:36, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Since each national government makes a case for which storms to retire at the WMO conference, perhaps this means that the U.S. will only pursue having the names Katrina and Wilma retired.  However, I thought Rita and Dennis, which both did a good deal of damage to the U.S., would also be retired.  Or, perhaps they don't want to diminish the significance of Katrina.  Argh, politics. --tomf688{talk} 02:43, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would be shocked if Dennis and Rita, at least, were not retired. A case can be made for not retiring Stan or Emily, but not retiring the other two would be bigger than not retiring Hurricane Gordon. Maybe they just haven't made the final decision yet on the others yet. I suppose Dennis could still be retired by the request of Cuba, too. —Cuiviénen (Cuivië) 04:00, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

text: I have looked at the cited HNC page, and note that it is put out by a regional office.  Personally, I think that the most authoritative statement is the one in the article for this talk page:  The final decision will be made by the WMO in March, and any statements about retired names (and their replacements) made before then are purely speculative.  (Even so, I must agree with the author of that page that Katrina and Wilma are "slam-dunk" candidates for retirement, even if I also agree with the other editors of this thread that they are almost certainly not going the be the only retirements.) --EMS | Talk 04:50, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with you. My guess is that the WMO has already approved those decisions and they are the most obvious. Rita should also be there as it will be a US-made case (I guess it is awaiting approval); no other countries were seriously affected by it. Dennis could be either made by the US or Cuba (it was the worst storm to hit Cuba in a long time, so if the US overlooks it, Cuba will likely make the case). Emily and Stan would definitely be made by other agencies though (Stan did not affect the US at all and Emily only brushed extreme southern Texas), so the NHC won't know what is happening with them. CrazyC83 05:32, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The EPac list is out of date; Kenna's still on it. Miss Madeline | Talk to Madeline 18:58, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I just saw this page, Katrina and Wilma are still listed on it.  The lists definitely need some updating, as Iris, Michelle, Isidore, and Lili are still on them! PenguinCDF 19:25, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

text: That makes sense. Less confident with Rita? That name also has a perfect case to be retired. After that, you get into retirement cases likely to be made by other governments - I think Dennis will be retired by Cuba (they seemed to take a harder hit), Emily by Grenada or Mexico and Stan by Guatemala. CrazyC83 02:42, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think that the time has come to stop grumbling about this.  Mr. Cain admits that they are "jumping the gun" on this, and that is all that we need to know.  Case closed IMO. --EMS | Talk 04:24, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  The question is how much the wiki folks should care. Should we try to get him to retract it and fill Katrina and WIlma back in? Naraht 15:26, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, I think it is fine the way it is there...they know what they are doing and know that they will be retired. I wouldn't mention it on this site though. CrazyC83 20:19, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

text: I really can't believe that Only Katrina and Wilma are being the candidates for retiring. Dennis made landfall in cuba a it's peak of 150mph winds, and then reintensified to a category 4 and finally made it's 2nd landfall near Pensacola, leaving extensive damage in Cuba and in the U.S.A.
Emily Made landfall at Grenada as a hurricane (notable because only Ivan has done that), then became the strongest hurricane of July with a pressure of 929mb and 155mph winds, then Emily made it's 2nd landfall at the Yucatan Peninsula as a category 4. And finally it made it's last landfall near San Fernando in Mexico and TS force winds reached sothern Texas.
Rita passed near the Florida Keys sending hurricane force winds and then after passing the Gulf Loop Current it strenghten up to 175mph winds with a pressure of 897 and made landfall near Sabine pass as a category 3.
And stan wasn't notable for it's winds, it was notable for being a Deadly storm, most of them in Guatemala by rains and flooding, also let a lot of damage in Mexico and in some parts of central America.
So I think that these storms also made enough disaster to be retired and now be history. Memicho 23:08, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Something Peculiar

message: Got Email from one of the people maintaining the site, Dennis Cain, who works for the the NWS. Contact information for him is at . If someone things that the information here can be properly compressed please make the change.
---Begin Message
Randolph, 
 
It is B, an assumption on my part only and it may or may not occur. My guess is the US
government (or whoever makes the request) will ask that Katrina be retired and that the 
Mexican government will ask that Wilma be retired. I could be wrong (and have been before).
I'm much less confident about Rita though. I have no connection/association with the RA IV 
Hurricane Committee. Hope this helps, 
 
Dennis Cain 
> According to the tc_names page 
> (http://www.srh.weather.gov/srh/jetstream/tropics/tc_names.htm ), 
> jetstream lists Katrina and Wilma as being retired. 
> 
> Is this 
> A) a commitment of members of the RA IV Hurricane Committee prior to 
> the beginning of the conference in San Juan which has officially 
> retired them 
> 
> or 
> B) An assumption given their size and damage which may or may not 
> actually occur after the RA IV Hurricane Committee meets? 
> 
> Thank You 
> Randolph Finder 
---End Message
Naraht 19:54, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That makes sense. Less confident with Rita? That name also has a perfect case to be retired. After that, you get into retirement cases likely to be made by other governments - I think Dennis will be retired by Cuba (they seemed to take a harder hit), Emily by Grenada or Mexico and Stan by Guatemala. CrazyC83 02:42, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think that the time has come to stop grumbling about this.  Mr. Cain admits that they are "jumping the gun" on this, and that is all that we need to know.  Case closed IMO. --EMS | Talk 04:24, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  The question is how much the wiki folks should care. Should we try to get him to retract it and fill Katrina and WIlma back in? Naraht 15:26, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, I think it is fine the way it is there...they know what they are doing and know that they will be retired. I wouldn't mention it on this site though. CrazyC83 20:19, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

text: I really can't believe that Only Katrina and Wilma are being the candidates for retiring. Dennis made landfall in cuba a it's peak of 150mph winds, and then reintensified to a category 4 and finally made it's 2nd landfall near Pensacola, leaving extensive damage in Cuba and in the U.S.A.
Emily Made landfall at Grenada as a hurricane (notable because only Ivan has done that), then became the strongest hurricane of July with a pressure of 929mb and 155mph winds, then Emily made it's 2nd landfall at the Yucatan Peninsula as a category 4. And finally it made it's last landfall near San Fernando in Mexico and TS force winds reached sothern Texas.
Rita passed near the Florida Keys sending hurricane force winds and then after passing the Gulf Loop Current it strenghten up to 175mph winds with a pressure of 897 and made landfall near Sabine pass as a category 3.
And stan wasn't notable for it's winds, it was notable for being a Deadly storm, most of them in Guatemala by rains and flooding, also let a lot of damage in Mexico and in some parts of central America.
So I think that these storms also made enough disaster to be retired and now be history. Memicho 23:08, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Something Peculiar - Answered!

message: With the mention of the state of  Quintana Roo in Mexico, are there other sub-national entities (Cuban Provinces or Haitian Departments for example) which should be added? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Naraht (talk • contribs) 01:44, February 1, 2006 .
: Judging by territorial extension, Quintana Roo is larger than several states in the Northeastern US, so if the departments are larger than that, perhaps. Titoxd(?!? - help us) 02:56, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If they can be broken down, yes. I did the same on the death toll lists by country/region... CrazyC83 04:41, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think I'm largely responsible for the introduction of Mexican states as "atomic" locations.  I personally have no idea where most Mexican states are, but when doing my rewrite I realized that it is merely US-centrism that causes us to treat US states as recognizable single names while the similarly-sized mexican states are largely unrecognized.  So, in place of qualifiers like "Yucatan Peninsula" or "Northeast Mexico" I just added the state names.  I figured someone would add more qualifiers, but I'm glad nobody did.  So now we should all learn the names of the mexican states!  As for Cuba, however, it looks like the Provinces of Cuba are more like U.S. counties in size. Jdorje 06:53, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  All the ones you'll ever need to know are Tamaulipas, Veracruz, Tabasco, Campeche, Yucatán and Quintana Roo, at least in the Gulf Coast. They are large territories, around the size of most American states. Titoxd(?!? - help us) 06:57, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

text: I live in Mexico, so I don't have problem in recognizing the states. In the Atlantic Basin the most treathened states of Mexico are Quintana Roo, Yucatan and Campeche, These 3 states are allways refered as Yucatan Peninsula, and also Tamaulipas and Veracruz. And in the Eastern Pacific Basin The mos treathened states are: Baja California, Sinaloa, Jalisco, Colima, Michoacan, Oaxaca and Guerrero.
So that way you won't have much Problem in knowing the most treathened states of Mexico by hurricanes. Since I live here In Mexico and if you need to know something Please ask me. Memicho 00:07, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

text: In the infoboxes, if a storm is large enough that it covered multiple jurisdictions (or the entire country, in the case of Cuba with Dennis), I would ignore those and just write in the country name. (However, if the death toll can be broken down, I'll write them into that chart!) CrazyC83 00:55, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other Sub-national entities. 

message: Guys, please add Hurricane Dennis to your watchlists (click here to do so) as it will appear on the Main page as the featured article on February 6 and vandalism is to be expected. NSLE (T+C) 00:54, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is unsettling that a FA could have as many factual errors as Dennis had (before I just fixed them).  We need to be careful about this in future when marking articles as featured! — jdorje (talk) 02:00, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dennis FA on main page soon 

message: It's now out. No real surprises (none were expected). CrazyC83 18:32, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I figured there'd be one today.  I wonder if there will be any more... — jdorje (talk) 18:42, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Actually that's a pretty significant strengthening...+5 mph and -5 mbar, to 105 mph and 970 mbar.  Close to Cat3, but...not that close. — jdorje (talk) 18:44, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Irene is notable for 1 thing. Being the only Peak Intensity Category 2 Hurricane. Now if Maria is dropped to Category 2, Beta will be notable for being the only Peak Category 3.HurricaneCraze32 20:06, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Irene was the longest lived 05 hurricane as well Jamie|C 15:02, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Irene's report 

message: Does anybody know of the area of land that a specific cyclonic system passed over? I need an example for a formula on my userpage. Please answer on my talkpage.Icelandic Hurricane 22:01, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No (in response to Hurricanehink). I need to find out the sq. mi. of the windswath on land for any storm.Icelandic Hurricane 22:16, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That would be extremely difficult to calculate. My guess is that Katrina passed over the most land of all the 2005 storms (its dissipation point was about 47°N, 69°W). (IMO, that calculation should be based on the entire circulation, from the time it becomes a tropical depression to the time it dissipates or becomes unrecognizable) CrazyC83 22:32, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Then should I do something else? If it's going to be hard to calculate, may as well put something similar in its place.Icelandic Hurricane 22:34, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems nearly certain that Katrina passed over the most land of any Atlantic hurricane in recorded history.  Looking at the :Image:Hurricane_Katrina_wind_swath.gif wind swath map it looks like about 150,000 square miles of land with tropical-storm force winds.  In fact I'd guess Katrina's swath through Florida alone is about the same size as Andrew's. — jdorje (talk) 22:37, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's just wind, not rainfall (which basically followed the length of the Appalachians). Last year's Frances and Ivan probably came close, if not surpassed, Katrina's "effective" area. CrazyC83 22:40, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, but that's what he was talking about...wind swath.  As for rainfall, you're right that Katrina didn't drop much because it was torn apart as it moved inland, and didn't cross any mountainous areas.  Very, very lucky. — jdorje (talk) 22:46, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Very true as she stayed on the western front of the Appalachians for over 48 hours from just after landfall right up to (basically) dissipation...from the descriptions I could find, the worst inland flooding due to actual rain was more than 60 hours after landfall - at the end of the line in eastern Quebec, just as another system was absorbing Katrina on August 31st! If Katrina had shifted 100 miles to the east, it would have been a long trail of destruction, and we'd be talking about many more lost communities. That could have increased the death toll several hundred more and caused billions of dollars in additional damage. Yes, Katrina could have been worse! CrazyC83 04:57, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

text: I would venture to guess that Hurricane Donna covered the largest land area with hurricane- and tropical storm-force winds of any recorded hurricane, but data is not available for Donna as it is for Katrina. —Cuiviénen (Cuivië) 03:37, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point...although I don't know how far inland Donna's winds went, so Katrina might still be bigger.  No way to know though. — jdorje (talk) 05:11, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

text: It still covered almost all of Florida and Maine with TS-force winds. That's probably more than Katrina by itself, ignoring the entire coastline between Florida and Maine. —Cuiviénen (Cuivië) 23:45, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Windswath

message: It's now out. Not downgraded. A few minor changes (minimum pressure changed from 960 to 962), but the most interesting part is how intense it was after becoming extratropical - 962 mbar! CrazyC83 16:45, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Added it in the references. What's surprising about the extratropical storm is, with a pressure of 962 mbar, it still only had 75 mph winds. —Cuiviénen (Cuivië) 16:59, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That is very surprising indeed - 962 mbar suggests winds around 110 mph... CrazyC83 16:53, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe for a tropical cyclone. Extratropical storms have lower pressures at lower windspeeds. I thought we all knew that. bob rulz 23:02, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Maria's report 

message: What do you think prediction wise? He seems to the Major hurricane left out.All i am wondering is did he do more or less than Stan.Your opinions? Oh and shall i add Beta to the major landfalling hurricanes?HurricaneCraze32 20:21, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It didn't make landfall as a major hurricane. —Cuiviénen (Cuivië) 20:35, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks.Even though i also ask for a prediction (dont have to do it).HurricaneCraze32 20:36, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Beta

message: Gary Padgett's Monthly Global Tropical Cyclone Summary for September 2005 is out. Miss Madeline | Talk to Madeline 23:54, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Monthly Global Summary 

message: I changed the TCRs to use .  Interestingly, the date on the Jose TCR is wrong (it says January 2005). — jdorje (talk) 05:45, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  TCR citations