Talk:Post-classical history

message: This RFC is about restructuring this page so it talks about the term.  suggested this approach over at Talk:Timeline_of_the_Middle_Ages#Requested_move_16_December_2020. Instead of the periodization system, we could use something like Timeline of the first millennium or History of the first millennium and Timeline of the second millennium or History of the second millennium. We could also add CE to the titles for clarification. I would like to get ideas on how we should structure this page and the related pages. Thanks, Interstellarity (talk) 17:40, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I suggest you don't try to sneak a WP:ERA change through at the same time as this stuff!  The article uses "AD" at present.  Johnbod (talk) 20:16, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: As you know, though, what the article currently uses is irrelevant concerning any contentions over which WP:ERA concention is used: the general rule is to use the convention that was used in the first revision after the article ceased being a stub. Now, in this article's case determining precisely when that happened is not entirely cut-and-dried; however,  the earliest versions of the article that were clearly "not stubs" did not use AD or CE at all, and this had been the case since the article was still "a stub". Here  https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Post-classical_history&oldid=535288900 is the earliest non-stub revision that uses an era label, and it uses CE. (That revision still has the stub hatnote at the bottom of the page, but the article is clearly not a stub; when the stub note was removed the article still used CE). Therefore, if anyone wishes to change AD to CE in this article, they ought to have licence to do so (and I can't think of any compelling reason for why AD and not CE should be used in this article, like there could be if, say, if the article topic was something like "Christianity in the East after the Fall of Constantinople" or whatever). Firejuggler86 (talk) 06:26, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

text: I think this page (or at least the title for what is presently on the page) is of limited use. The periodization adopted, purportedly for "world" history, is at variance with the existence of scholarly periodization of the pre-Columbian Mesoamerican cultures, in which the Classical is roughly 250–900 CE, and the Postclassical 900–1521. What's more, the troubling lack of "late antiquity" and the failure to distinguish between "late antiquity" and "early middle ages" makes the confusion worse. GPinkerton (talk) 03:46, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Entirely agreed.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  19:55, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well, Late Antiquity and the Early Middle Ages aren't easily distinguished - nor should they be! ;) The two 'periods' largely - perhaps even mostly - overlap. They are not to be thought of as discrete epochs, with set beginning and end dates, with no overlap at all. Late antiquity refers to aspects of the ancient world that carried on into the period: e.g., the Roman Senate, which existed in a form into the 8th Century; chariot races, in the Eastern Empire, also until around that time. And likewise, for example, the establishment of English Britain in the 5th century could be called the Early Middle Ages, or the Frankish kingdoms on the continent...hope that made sense. Firejuggler86 (talk) 13:40, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: One of the definitions we have about the end of late antiquity, equates it with the reign of Charlemagne. This would likely mean that the rest of the history of the Carolingian Empire is out of scope. Dimadick (talk) 09:43, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

text: The title is just wrong for the Americas, sub-Saharan Africa and Oceania. These sections should be floated off somewhere under appropriate titles. For example the section on "africa" has Medieval Africa as its "main article", but that just redirects to a bit of History of Africa where the stuff here would on a quick look form a useful overview.  The "Old World" remainder is (noting GPinkerton's points) reasonably coherent, and useful for people wanting that sort of approach.  It needs a different title, perhaps Post-classical history of the Old World or Post-classical history of Eurasia.  The article isn't in a "timeline" format, & I don't think using that helps.  Alternativwely, one might keep the whole thing under some different title - World history 500 to 1500, and clarify in the text where this is "post-classical" and where it isn't.  This is the least work (which I would be willing to do).   Johnbod (talk) 20:05, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request for comment 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Extraordinary Writ (talk) 21:21, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Post-classical history → ? – This title seems to be rarely used in reliable sources. More reliable sources use Middle Ages for global history, but that is reserved for European history. I don't know what the best title is for this article, but I don't think it is this one since we title Wikipedia articles based on usage in reliable sources. Interstellarity (talk) 13:53, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: But are any of these actually better here? Johnbod (talk) 01:42, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

text: That's what I assumed it is too new and unestablished. It will be interesting to see how it develops. I never liked post-classical as it feels like a footnote to classical and that plays into the bias against the middle ages which is pretty common. It would be like renaming the classical period "post-Bronze Age period". -- GreenC 03:50, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 6 October 2022 

message: Per the lead paragraph, this article is about medieval civilizations. The category deletion discussion Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 October 29#Category:Medieval civilizations is pretty poorly argued, hinging on a debate over the meaning of 'civilization', rather than what professional historiography says on this topic. "Medieval civilizations" is a common phrase found in Encyclopedia Britannica and elsewhere. -- GreenC 23:57, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  {{cl|Medieval civilizations}} was deleted 

message: Ok Thanks :) Sunriseshore (talk) 03:19, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: NB: The note about it being too long is not quite right. Per WP:SIZERULE, this is measured in readable prose size (not raw kb), for which the page is 62kb. Iskandar323 (talk) 05:27, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Did you know nomination

message: This article has many  and  issues. You generally cannot cite an entire book for a piece of information because the reader does not know how to find it in the cited source. Instead, provide a page range with  or . When citing an edited work like Kedar & Wiesner-Hanks 2015, it's important to credit the author of the contribution rather than the editors (see examples on The Holocaust#Book chapters ), and again in that case page numbers are needed. (t · c) buidhe 20:11, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  GAN/referencing issues