Talk:Muhammad Ali/Archive 1

message: SI said he was the most overrated athlete of the century. I want this included.
http://images.si.com/inside_game/leigh_montville/news/1999/12/08/montville_mali/
147.31.208.181 (talk) 05:04, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: SI Most Overrated athlete of the century

message: Needs to be some information here.  I'd add some, but I don't know any :( 66.195.208.108 (talk) 23:23, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, I (I being the guy who posted the comment above) added his birthplace.  That's a start. 66.195.208.108 (talk) 23:25, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Birthplace and early life 

message: It seems that these two movies based on his life should be included...when doing a search for merely "Ali" you don't get a disambiguation page either.  You have to know to search Ali (film).
----
Hi.  I'm about to add in a line about the way that Ali "sung his own praises."  The wiki as it stands implies, in accordance with the conventional wisdom, that Ali was merely arrogant and cocky.  But, he has stated before that he developed the self-praise-singer strategy as a youngster, when he realized that acting like a braggart would draw out the largest crowds to watch his fights.  He has said that he'd intentionally bait everyone in that way, knowing that everybody would come to witness the fight and see him get beat up.  I can't remember the source where I read this, it was a biographical coffee-table type book, with all kinds of quotes from Ali interspersed among photographs and textual details of his career.  I can't remember the source, but I'm adding it to the wiki anyway.  It's an important detail to understand Ali's character correctly.
----
I intend to expand on Ali's professional career soon, but obviously if anyone else wants to then go ahead. Mswake 16:01, 23 July 2002 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why is there no mention of Ali or When We Were Kings? 

message: Ali's story on the fate of his 1960 Olympic gold medal has wavered over the years.  Recently, he's been more likely to say that it was simply lost.  Might be worth noting alongside the story of it being tossed in the Ohio River, if someone can find something definitive.  Bill Lumbergh Aug 27, 2004
Casual reader opinion: it would be nice to have some more info about the present-day Ali 
I support the Casual reader's opinion -Wolfie001 20:31, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gold medal 

message: Has anyone got the goods on this? I am aware that his great-great grandfather or great-great-great grandfather was an Irishman from Co. Clare who emigrated to America in the 1850's, fell in love with and married a black woman. Ali does not seem proud of this as I have read of him on at least one occasion see it more in terms of a white man raping a black woman rather than the love match it seems to have being. I'm not drawing attention to this just because of his Irish descent (though I am delighted as an Irishman to learn of it!) but also because I think it sheds interesting light on Ali himself. Fergananim 17:01, 14 February 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Ali's Irish Ancestry

message: Man, that first paragraph is awful.  It's so repetitive and replete with bad grammar it needs to be completely rewritten.
:So very true. Someone fix it, now. Kine 04:26, 20 April 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Awful First Paragraph 

message: The article doesn't explain where the famous "float like a butterly, sting like a bee" quote comes from, and it's quite hard to look that kind of thing up on the internet definitively. Also, wasn't there a mid-1970s Superman spin-off comic in which Ali and Superman had a fight, and then teamed up to defeat... Mr Mykzlptzk (or whoever)?-Ashley Pomeroy 09:56, 6 June 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Float like a butterfly etc / Superman 

message: I'm reading the page as someone interested in Ali and not someone with much knowledge of him, so when I want to put Chuck Wepner in there somewhere, I don't know where it would go.  I would appreciate someone more knowledgeable adding him in. -Denkc 12:16, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wepner? 

message: I'd like to alert those more familiar with both this page and to Ali to the following edit: 
The edit could hardly be more significant in its scope, yet it seems to have not been noticed, and indeed is still there right now.  The original diner story is widely cited elsewhere, not least in Ali's own autobiography, _The Greatest_.  I'll leave it those of you involved in this page to make the changes you feel are appropriate.
In mentionioning this, I note that the editor who made the change also added references to a white power group elsewhere in Wikipedia Zebra murders.  Ferg2k 06:33, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I've reverted this vandalism myself.  Ferg2k 15:50, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Found and removed as irrelevant another reference to this from 129.24.95.222 in early part of page. [forgot to sign this] Ferg2k 07:17, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Racist Vandalism? 

message: Ezeu, you were correct in noting that the link to Cassius Marcellus Clay was circular. Unfortunatly that was due to a bit of a mess when I was merging two articles about him. The link works now, and it seems to be relevant... Cheers --Bookandcoffee 02:52, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Cassius Marcellus Clay

message: Does anybody know when Muhammad Ali-Haj actually made the Hajj?
:I dont know when, but rest assured that he has. It would be funny otherwise - Ali can afford a ticket, he is a devout muslim and he has been to Saudi Arabia several times. If he has not made the Hajj, then we are on to a scoop. / Ezeu 05:47, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: During his 1964 UN visit, he reportedly said that he wanted to visit Mecca, but he certainly didn't make the hajj with Malcolm X. A biography says that he went in January of 1972. This picture claims to be of Ali in Mecca on a "New Year's" (sic) trip, which fits. He appears to be barefoot and wearing the ihram. There's possibly a doctrinal issue of whether a hajj made previous to conversion (NOI is not, strictly speaking, regarded as one of the Muslim sects, and this was three years previous to Ali's second conversion) qualifies, but I think that it would since it was made as a pilgrimage it would count. I can't find what month Dhu al-Hijjah was in '72, so technically it could even just be umrah. For the time being, I think it would be safe to call the '72 trip hajj. I can't find any proof that he's returned to Mecca since, but he may well have. It's highly unlikely that he made the hajj before '72. Door 08:10, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Hajj

message: He knocked out Liston in the first round of their rematch in Lewiston, Maine on May 25, 1965, albeit controversially; as few observers saw the "phantom punch" that floored Liston
--Can someone explain better that the wiki did??
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Spentcasing (talk • contribs) 03:38, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Phantom Punch?? 

message: Hello there I found somthing on  Sonny Liston  Discussion it's weird, or a PRANK. Saying he is Mr. X 195.93.21.1 (talk) 18:26, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  I found somthing or it could be a prank 

message: This article says:  "Despite this, he remains a hero to millions around the world. In 1985, he was called upon to negotiate for the release of kidnapped Americans in Lebanon. In 1996, he had the honor of lighting the Olympic flame in Atlanta, Georgia. Every public appearance by Ali is treasured, including his appearance at the 1998 AFL Grand Final, where NFL Hall of Famer Anthony Pratt recruited him to watch the game."
But there is no one with the name Anthony Pratt on the NFL's hall of fame website.  pro-football-reference.com and databasefootball.com do not list any players with that name either.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Chainclaw (talk • contribs) 04:59, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who is Anthony Pratt? 

message: Just added the link to Ali's maternal Irish roots. Does anyone else know anything about Abe Grady's life in America, and the subsequent history of his family? The people in Ireland by the way were thrilled to bits when the heard about the connection. Fergananim 13:20, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ali son of Odessa grandaughter of Abe O'Grady of Ennis, Ireland

message: I have read an article upon the visit of Ali to the Soviet Union in April 1978 (Tashkent), wherein he had been quoted as praising the Soviet social and political system, including lack of unemployment and racial discrimination. Is the quote genuine, or was it a propaganda snip? Silvermane 21:46, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ali's visit to the Soviet Union

message: Please provide reason before deleting my bit on his involvement with the LA Marathon. Nobody informed me of the reason why that was deleted. --Cumbiagermen 08:17, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Marathon Involvement 

message: A great man like Ali deserves a great article.  There are all kinds of errors- misspellings, factual errors, syntax errors, punctuation errors, etc.-in this article.  Someone needs to get it right and then protect it. Hokeman 19:11, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article is in desperate need of clean-up 

message: I removed this from below the "Professional career" section:
By Joshua A. Logue
The link makes no mention of "Joshua A. Logue" (who he?) - was this just a test/minor vandalism? Camillus (talk) 14:55, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Strange link?

message: Ins't ali his real name
I agree.  I'm not a very seasoned editor, but I think Ali himself would disagree with the "Real Name" line in the infobox.  -Spudcrazy 00:33, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "Birth name"?  "Given name"?  What fits best?  Or why not just put "Muhammad Ali (Cassius Marcellus Clay)"? Peyna 01:37, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: like didnt he keep beating his opponent in a (professional) fight whan his opponent kept callin him cascius clay, cuz ali refuses to recognize this name!!! --T00C00L 13:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Real name 

message: Some smartass decided to put Muhammad Ali 'the gay wanker of all time'. Just to point out to the mods who should be watchin this stuff. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Transkar (talk • contribs) 15:30, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fixed some vandalism 

message: It says that Muhammad Ali had a Unothorodox type of boxing but on his stats it says he had an Otherodox type.
Please Discuss I dont know —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.201.211.242 (talk • contribs) 
:I imagine the box is referring to more general categories of boxing "style" such as someone who hits hard, but doesn't throw as many punches or something who throws a million punches but isn't concerned about how hard they land.  Ali fits into what is sometimes called "pure boxer" or "long range" category, so I'm assuming that's what the infobox is referring to as "orthodox."  When the text describes his fighting style as "highly unorthodox" it is referring to other aspects of his fighting style.  Even though his general fighting style might have fit into the orthodox category, the way he moved around and other things he did made it just as unorthodox.  Feel free to find a better way to clarify this and put it in the article. Peyna 20:01, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Othorodox or Unotherodox 

message: If anyone finds out from a reliable source the exact date of his marriage to Veronica and the exact dates of his divorces from Belinda and Veronica, please feel free to plug them into the Wikitable in the personal section. There is a great deal of conflicting information out there.--Hokeman 02:44, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Exact dates of Marriage and Divorces 

message: Hi, can anyone please provide sources that prove that Muhammad Ali is vegetarian? Thanks. --Amir E. Aharoni 06:48, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vegetarian? 

message: Quite a good book about Ali's life, in almost a story form
The Greatest Muhammad Ali by Walter Dean Myers
LOL, we're reading in class, hope you enjoy. -Wolfie001 21:54, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Book Suggestion

message: "NFL Hall of Famer" Anthony Pratt does not exist?  There is an AFL (Australian) Hall of Famer named Bob Pratt, but no Pratt at all in the NFL Hall of Fame? Lunch with Jason 18:57, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: this is in reference to the "Retirement" section.  If this refers to MA watching a game of Australian Football in 1996, it seems pretty inconsequential, and potentially should be removed.  At the very least, I would think it should be corrected (or removed until corrected?) Lunch with Jason 18:57, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "NFL Hall of Famer" Anthony Pratt 

message: http://www.travellersinleeds.co.uk/_travellers/boxing.html
198.187.154.33 (talk) 20:51, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Roma Gypsy knocked down Muhammed Ali

message: I notice that this article on a major sports figure only has two references.  I would like to nominate this for Version 0.5, but the shortage of references would prevent it passing.  Could the people who wrote this article please add in their sources, preferably as inline references?  Such an important person deserves a good quality article. Thanks! Walkerma 20:03, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: Nice article, but I was surprised not to find a couple of noteworthy events. If no one else can supply reliable reports, perhaps I will do research and make the entries:
* President Jimmy Carter naming Muhammad Ali as ambassador to India.
* Role as chairman (?) to the Olympics in Atlanta
* MA throwing his Olympic gold medal away into a river as a protest of American racism. MA being supplied a replacement medal many years later.
--Philopedia 08:28, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing High Water Marks 

message: I added some things to this section, just wanted to leave some citations since wikipedia is strict about citing everything. Ali won the Sportsman of the Year award in 74, you can look it up in the wikipedia article on that award. His Ring Magazine Fight and Fighter of the Year awards can be looked up here
http://www.ibhof.com/ibhfrmag.htm
152.163.100.137 (talk) 00:08, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ali's legacy 

message: Substituted at 19:59, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: I'm not registered so I can't edit the page, but the photo caption "Ali taunts...Joe Frazier" is completely inaccurate.  If you watch the fight footage, Ali never taunted him, and you won't even be able to pick up that image.  The photographer has said it was a miracle/accident that he got that the way he did (and that it became iconic).  The only thing shown in that picture is Ali finishing his punch and pulling back; there's no taunting that took place and to suggest otherwise is inaccurate and misleading. 129.105.104.212 (talk) 15:42, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  PHOTO CAPTION 

message: What in the heck does this sentence mean?
"In 1969, Ali fought Rocky Marciano in computerized fight, known as, The Superfight: Marciano vs. Ali."
Aside from having no idea what a "computerized fight" would be in 1969, it's also bad grammar (Ali fought... in computerized fight...)  Not "in (A) computerized fight"?
dammit, it was a FICTIONAL fight, ok, produced by a computer, and it was A computarized fight!!! if you dont know things than DONT make statements, cuz You or Us dont no what Youre talkin about!!! --T00C00L 13:21, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Computerized fight? 

message: First is says that Ali lost to Spinks, then it describes him winning. Presumably, two fights are being conflated? I know nothing of the history here; could somebody who does, please fix it? Uucp 16:21, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Leon Spinks section is incoherent 

message: I do, hereby, advocate these changes:
Named Junior after his father, Cassius Marcellus Clay, Sr., who was named for the 19th century abolitionist and politician Cassius Clay. Ali later changed his name after joining the Nation of Islam and subsequently converted to orthodox Sunni Islam in 1975.
Named Junior after his father, Cassius Marcellus Clay, Sr., who was named for the 19th century abolitionist and politician Cassius Marcellus Clay (abolitionist). Ali later changed his name after joining the Nation of Islam and subsequently converted to orthodox Sunni Islam in 1975.
Which looks better?:
| Louisville, Kentucky, USA
|-
|-
|-
! Style
| Orthodox box, boxing, boxer
|-
! colspan="2" style="background-color: #d0d0d0; text-align: center;" | Boxing record
|-
-------------------------
or:
-------------------------
| Louisville, Kentucky, USA
|-
|-
|-
! Style
| Orthodox Sunni Islam
|-
! colspan="2" style="background-color: #d0d0d0; text-align: center;" | Boxing record
|-
Thank You.
Hopiakuta 19:42, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: I do, hereby, advocate these changes:

message: There should be a mention of his autobiography and I think he also starred in a biographical movie playing himself. There are so many documentaries about him but some references should be included. 
Joseph —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.84.58.210 (talk • contribs) 03:13, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Books and films 

message: I made some edits to the article. Doug Jones and Henry Cooper did not weigh 25 pounds less than Ali, or Clay at the time, though Cooper was close to that. I thought it was POV in terms of the Jones fight, it claimed that Jones beat Clay to the punch "throughout the fight." I disagree with this, and I thought Clay deserved the close decision based on the early rounds. Either way, I don't think the article should take sides, considering how close the fight was. The last thing I edited was about the Liston fight, where it says that Clay had a "height and reach" advantage. He was taller, but Liston had the reach advantage. All of this height/weight/reach stuff can be found on boxrec.com. I might make more edits later.-8/30/06 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.163.100.137 (talk • contribs) 23:27, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Edits

message: Can someone get a diffrent picture of Muhammad Ali. The one that is up is a old version of him. Wouldn't someone regonize him as his younger self? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.8.123.196 (talk • contribs) 17:46, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Diffrent picture 

message: The quote about no vietnamese calling him a nigger is actually a popular misquoting, according to Wikiquote. I'll add this information, if no one oppose it.
--achab 12:33, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quoting problem 

message: Muhammad Ali's page says that he is widely regarded to be the greatest heavyweight champion of all time, while Joe Louis's page says the same thing.  Something needs to be fixed. -Slash-
There is a lot of dispute about wheter Ali or Louis should be rated as the greatest heavyweight of all time, so for anyone to write that either is "widely regarded" to be the best is false. And this unsupported assertion should certainly not be included in the introduction to the article. MKil 20:08, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I know and everyone knows that the text is correct, isn't POV, and for the good of the article, I'm going to keep restoring it. It's unfortunate that you want to keep removing it, but I'm not backing down. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 22:10, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Thank you for writing a novel on the subject.  At any rate, we can state with full factuality that there is dispute between various ranking lists where some place Ali as the greatest of all time and others that do not.  And the same applies to Joe Louis.  Right? Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 17:41, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Added on to both Muhammad Ali and Joe Louis, discuss

message: I've started an approach that may apply to Wikipedia's Core Biography articles: creating a branching list page based on in popular culture information.  I started that last year while I raised Joan of Arc to featured article when I created Cultural depictions of Joan of Arc, which has become a featured list.  Recently I also created Cultural depictions of Alexander the Great out of material that had been deleted from the biography article.  Since cultural references sometimes get deleted without discussion, I'd like to suggest this as a model for the editors here.  Regards, Durova 14:56, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Cultural depictions of Muhammad Ali]] 

message: It seems to me as if there's a negative slant on Ali in the article.  Note the following passages "He defeated such boxers as Tony Esperti, Jim Robinson (who weighed 160 pounds when he fought Clay), Donnie Fleeman (who had broken ribs going into the fight but fought Clay anyway), Alonzo Johnson, George Logan, Willi Besmanoff, Lamar Clark (who had won his previous 40 bouts by knockout), Doug Jones, and Henry Cooper. Among Clay's victories were versus Sonny Banks (who knocked him down during the bout), Alejandro Lavorante, and the aged Archie Moore " and "Clay then won a disputed 10 round decision over Doug Jones, who, despite being lighter than Clay, staggered Clay as soon as the fight started with a right hand, and beat Clay to the punch continually during the fight." and "Clay's next fight was against Britain's Henry Cooper, who knocked Clay down with a left hook near the end of the fourth round. Clay was given extra time between rounds immediately after being floored by Cooper, a blatant violation of boxing rules."
It seems as if whomever wrote this is like "Muhammad Ali won, but..." but the "but..." is a very one sided statement. 74.138.210.206 22:43, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV issue? 

message: The aspect that Ali became a political symbol for blacks is very little mentioned...Johncmullen1960 06:58, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  politics 

message: Didn't the fight with Ken Norton inspire Rocky? 68.101.51.87 (talk) 06:24, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rocky? 

message: Can we have the birth dates of Ali's his wives and children? As well as what are they up to now?  Ali's relationships appear to be important and it would be nice to know more on his families.  Thank you. Shikha17 08:37, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Champ's Family 

message: I was told that Cassius Clay originally converted to Nation of Islam in order to avoid the draft and although I don't believe that, I am unable to find a specific date of his conversion to prove otherwise. The article says he revealed that he was a member of Nation of Islam and that his name was Mohammed Ali in February of '64, but does anyone know for how long prior to this that he had held these beliefs? Gzeta 18:44, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  concerning conversion to Islam 

message: Once again there is a movement to have inserted that "many regard Ali as the greatest heavyweight of all time."  This is a violation of the weasel words rule in Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Avoid_weasel_words). If you are going to claim Ali as the greatest, then provide some proof. If not, this wording does not belong. MKil 15:27, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Your confusion regarding my position (i.e., I never said he was actually the greatest, nor do I want to especially promote this, but it is indeed a fact that many think he is) not withstanding, I think the new section addressing this is all right.  Perhaps this could be referred to in the opener as well, but I won't push it. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 22:03, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Greatest Heavyweight

message: I am removing the repeated sections in the article and someone keeps reverting it back to the previous state.  --prashidi 23:52, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I apologize. There was an IP-hopping vandal removing random chunks out of the article right before you came along, and I got triggerhappy. I'm sorry for targeting your edits.  E. Sn0 =31337= Talk 23:57, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Repeated Sections

message: He is mentioned in the first paragraph alongside Joe Frazier and George Foreman. But I can't find any reference to thsi person, let alone having any contact with Muhammed Ali. Is there any reason why he has such a prominent position in thsi article?
WikiFisher 08:26, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: With regard to "Wallace Ritchie" ladies, and gentlemen, we appear to have a hoaxer in our midst. An anonymous editor has been repeatedly inserting Wallace Ritchie, a supposed opponent of Ali's, into the article. Wallace Ritchie appears in none of my sports almanacs and a Google search turns up no such boxer. Keep your eyes open for further appearances of Mr. Ritchie in this article and eliminate him with extreme prejudice. A Train take the 21:51, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: 10-4, A Train!  E. Sn0 =31337= Talk 21:54, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who is Wallace Ritchie? 

message: Someone want in and put 'he has parkinsons' on the quotes article, this page was messed up like one of Ali's (LEGEND) opponents faces after a fight with him lol but it still is. If your not logged in and you click on this link it still says it where as if you are logged in it doesn't does anybody know how to fix this cos i don't --McNoddy 13:33, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: Can someone explain why this is important:
"a small child have all been named after him."
I dont understand the importance that a small child has been named after him.  Can we remove this part?--prashidi 22:49, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have removed this sneaky vandalism.  Thanks for letting us know about it. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 00:04, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Small child named after him

message: Strange... not a single word about the Ali shuffle... 213.224.83.4 (talk) 20:17, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ali Shuffle 

message: Please vote for Muhammad Ali at Wikipedia:U.S. Wikipedians' notice board/USCOTW. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 16:14, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nomination for U.S. Collaboration of the Week 

message: I removed a part of the article that claimed that Doug Jones "beat Clay to the punch throughout the fight" from the article a few months ago, and now its back, so I removed it again. This is a POV statement, implying that Jones deserved the decision. I've seen the fight myself, I thought Clay won. My opinion on who won the fight doesn't belong in the article, but neither does this person's.-1/18/06 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.244.187.203 (talk • contribs) 
:Point taken, but it would be helpful if you place part of the reasons for the change in the edit summary rather than leaving it blank.  I almost reverted it because of that. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 22:12, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Cassius Clay vs. Doug Jones revisited

message: Why is there no mention of Ali's arrest after refusing to fight in Vietnam? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.243.47.55 (talk • contribs) 
:Probably should be covered if it isn't already. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 22:24, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You know, you could add in some information... it is a project open to anyone :)  Seicer (talk) (contribs) 23:53, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

text: No problem. You should register an account with Wikipedia and contribute. It's actually quite simple and I can help out with any questions you may have. WP:HELP is a starting place. Let me know on my talk page if you have any questions.  Seicer (talk) (contribs) 01:22, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of things to do 

message: This is a very minor edit, but on the Rocky DVD, Stallone talks about seeing the Ali vs. Wepner fight in person, not on TV. I've edited the article to correct this. Joshuaxls 11:36, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you sure about this? Ali-Wepner took place in Richfield, Ohio. I don't think Stallone, who was a struggling actor at the time in, I think, New York (or L.A.) traveled to Ohio to watch the fight. Every version I heard was that Stallone scraped together some money to go see a closed circuit broadcast of the fight. What exactly did he say on the DVD? MKil 03:12, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inspiration for Rocky... 

message: Does anybody know where I can download a large version of Ali standing over his defeated opponent?
? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by RatherBeBiking (talk • contribs) 02:46, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wallpaper 

message: I have changed word Orthodox Sunni to sect. there is nothing Orthodox in it . Khalidkhoso 03:08, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  word changing 

message: A separate section dealing with Ali's unorthodox boxing style would, I think, add a tremendous amount to this article.  There are bits and peices sprinkled about dealing with it, but there just isn't enough here about his style. -Toptomcat 13:03, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds good to me, as long as it's well-cited. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 20:02, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Boxing style

message: any information about their mothers?  What were the circumstances of his forming a relationship with their mothers?  Were they women he met through his involvement with NoI? In his capacity as a layperson? or as a minister?
Equal coverage of all children & wives/partners is suggested.
DavidYork71 22:47, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: When were his exnuptial daughters Miya and Khaliah born?

message: DavidYork71 22:47, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: What were the events precipitating his apostasy from NoI and taking up Sunni Islam?

message: To me, Muhammad Ali is the Greatest Boxer who ever lived. Want more proof? Try 1974, Now Ali was 7 years removed from being stripped of the Heavyweight Title because he stood up for what was right for him. When he returned to boxing in 1970, he was rusty after a 3 and a half year layoff and he had to regain the heavyweight title the hard way and my god he did. His victories over Joe Frazier and George Foreman earned a place in boxing history for Ali, he won a lot of sports awards that year including this one. His regaining of the Heavyweight Title in 1974 earned Ali an award for Athlete of the Year by ABC's Wide World of Sports. Now that Ali fanatics was his real greatest year ever!!!  Joey Chesnavich 18:45, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  1974: His Real Greatest Year 

message: Ali is the author of the worlds shortest poem, although he is given little or no credit for it.  He delivered it during a Harvard University graduation speech. Officially it was untitled, though entitling it Ali would not be inappropriate.  The poem is "Me, whee!". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.155.61.120(Slliks) (talk) 18:38, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: i am not sure which poem but that poem (Ali's) is a variation of another poem. I can't remember who off the top of my head. Ali's poem is "Me We" i am pretty sure, not "Me WHEE" Aka khan 01:59, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ali The Poet 

message: Just a quick note, in the info box it says that his style is orthodox, yet the first line of the text says that he had a highly unorthodox style. KingStrato 00:12, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I had noticed that as well, but I don't know enough about boxing or Ali's style to reconcile the two. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 01:18, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In boxing, "orthodox" usually means a right-handed stance. Most fighters use this stance, so it's the norm. I believe that is what the info box means when it says "orthodox." However, the usage of "unorthodox" in the text probably means that Ali's style of boxing was unusual. So his stance is orthodox but his style is unorthodox. I changed the infobox to reflect this. MKil 20:38, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inconsistency 

message: Would anybody mind if I put page numbers in from Thomas Hauser's book? This article could be a GA if you really wanted it to be. andreasegde 22:39, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: In-line citations

message: The date in which Muhammad Ali was diagnosed with Parkinson's has not been properly specified and instead has been referred to as "the early 1980s."
:Fixed it, and corrected the disease to Parkinsonism syndrome. andreasegde 17:59, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inconsistancy regarding date of diagnosis 

message: There isn't really any substanitive proof to state that Ali had declined after the Thrilla in Manilla. Most of it is speculation, and thus the inclusion of the claim that both Ali and Joe Frazier were never the same after the Thrilla in Manilla fight violates Wikipedia's rules of neutrality. I personally think the sentence should be removed. Ali's few subpar performances towards the latter end of his career can easily be attributed to lack of training and/or overconfidence due to the fact he was the world champion at the time. 
Also there are multiple conflicting reports as to why Muhammad Ali's fight Doctor Freddie Pacheco left Ali's entourage, some stating Ali's slowed reflexes, and others stating that Pacheco took tests of Ali that revealed damage to Ali's kidneys. Perhaps it would be better to generalize the statement rather than give a clear cause, such as "Freddie Pacheco left Ali's team in the late 1970s after it became clear that boxing was taking its toll on the fighter and when his warnings that Ali should retire were ignored." This information should be either revised or deleted as well.
This unsigned post was written by Rumble74.
:Fixed citation for Pacheco and why/when he left. andreasegde 10:10, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ali after Manilla and Freddie Pacheco's departure 

message: Can someone please give me the link to the article or source that says this? (Unsigned)
:It's POV, and if it's unreferenced, it should be deleted forthwith. andreasegde 10:22, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Worst boxing decision ever!?

message: :The text says: 
:Ali would retain his title until a February 1978 loss to 1976 Olympic champion Leon Spinks, notable due to Spinks' lack of professional experience (only seven fights going). In the September rematch in New Orleans at the Superdome, Spinks' cornerman Georgie Benton walked out of the ring after the 6th round, later commenting that he did not think the fight was on the level.  Ali was given a 15-round decision over the disoriented Spinks. Then on June 27, 1979, he announced his retirement and vacated the title.
:shouldn't it be "defeat over"?
:--Ben T/C  22:48, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would say that the whole paragraph is POV, unreferenced, and should go. andreasegde 03:50, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Did he win or lose? 

message: Muhammad Ali's article's name has changed to Muhammad Ali (boxador), The updated link to catalan wikipedia must be "Muhammad Ali (boxador)". Please, someone change it in the languages link's list, cos the source is protected. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.23.215.111 (talk) 17:19, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New page in catalan 

message: It may be a minor episode in a great life, but it is a part of the picture,
and I put in a mention of Ali's 1960s release of Stand by Me as a single. I do not remember the precise date (though I was able to check the release date of the "I am the Greatest" Columbia album as 1963). I have seen one soul website quote the release date for the single as 1966, but I remember hearing both the Ali version and the Kenny Lynch version of the single played on the same episode of the UK BBC program "Juke Box Jury", and the Kenny Lynch article quotes 1964
as the date of release of Lynch's version, so 1964 seems more likely
(at least for the UK release). I am not certain enough of the date
to put that in the main article, though. It would be good if someone could verify a more precise release date and update the article accordingly.
Messagetolove 19:53, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Music 

message: It says that the first Liston fight was almost canceled because they saw Ali with Malcolm X in Miami. First, there is a gramatical mistake there (overlookedthis- ...). Second, I couldnt find anything on the web about this and it cites no reference, not even a book. I'm not touching this for now, leaving it to someone who has actually read a book about Ali or is a big fan of him (I know nothing of Ali). Outsid3r 21:47, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, I'm removing those words myself since noone has bothered giving his/her expertise in the subject.Outsid3r 01:36, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I don't know about what Malcolm X said, but I think that the
near cancellation of the Liston fight is detailed in the autobiography
"The Greatest" (with Richard Durham). Someone needs to check, though.
Messagetolove 06:16, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

text: All I removed was "History has largely overlooked this" which is quite harmless. The almost-cancellation of the fight still remains there, although I still insist that someone provides a reference, even just a book title. To say that "they wanted to deny someone the right to the World Heavyweight Champion title because he was seen with a black man that peacefully defended the rights of people with color in the US and later worldwide" is a pretty harsh speculation and should NOT pass unedited. Outsid3r 21:43, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No problem for me. I just wanted to say that there is a general reference to the incident in that book,
since you asked for a book reference. I didn't (and don't), want to get into political issues.
As to the postscript question, which I presume came from you, I am no boxing expert, but I saw at least on TV,
most of Ali's fights ( from the first Liston fight), and he was the best I saw. I don't think you can
compare boxers, or athletes in general, from different eras. But Ali must have had a higher world profile than 
any other sports personality.
Messagetolove 06:40, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Of course the postscript question did [not] come from me :) . If you check the discussion history, it came by an IP: 221.128.134.155 . Then lets add "The Greatest" as a reference and if anyone has anything against, let them correct it. Its useless getting into deep bureaucracies when some kid can come later and make a pandemonium of the article.Outsid3r 05:15, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I located my copy of "The Greatest: My On Story" by Ali, with Richard Durham (this is the version published in the UK in 1976, by Mayflower books). The story of the "almost cancellation" of the first Liston fight is detailed on pages 121-138 of that book.
Messagetolove 21:44, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cancelation of the Liston fight 

message: Ali knocked out foreman at the end of the 8th round, not the 7th. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.253.24.27 (talk • contribs) 17:17, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Foreman Change 

message: I changed two blockquotes into inline quotations on the "Vietnam War nearly ends career" section. I did so because blockquotations are used only if the cited text takes four lines or more, and neither quotation took this long. For more information see Wikipedia:Manual of Style.
MetaManFromTomorrow 19:36, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unnecessary blockquotes 

message: Here are Ali's quotes that were added to the article.  Normally we don't have quotes sections because that's what WikiQuote is for... we can easily provide a link to that project.
*"I'm so fast that last night I turned off the light switch in my hotel room and was in bed before the room went black."
*"It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up."
*"To be a great champion you must believe you are the best. If you're not, pretend you are."
*"If my fans think I can do everything I say I can do, then they're crazier than I am."
*"God gave me this illness to remind me that I'm not number One; he is."
*"Superman don't need no seat belt." [Comment to flight attendant, who replied, 'Superman don't need no airplane, either.']
*"I'll beat him so bad he'll need a shoehorn to put his hat on."
*"If you even dream of beating me you'd better wake up and apologize."
*"I like your mom."  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.74.26.145 (talk) 18:35, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quotes section should be moved into WikiQuote 

message: I failed this article for several reasons, and it will take some time to get it fixed
# It's poorly sourced for it's length, only 16 ciations in a article that is about 50 KB in length.
# There are whole sections that are completely unsourced
# Poor prose thoughout, many grammar errors and one sentence paragraphs.
# Merge or remove the Ranking in heavyweight history subsection, unless it could be expanded more than a sentence
# The Ali in the media section should be converted into prose
# The last sentence of in retirement should be moved to the personal life section
# Needs a bit of a trimming his biography section, needs more info about his legacy (which is poorly sourced anyways).
# Lead needs to be expanded per WP:LEAD
# Needs a strong PoV check, parts of the article is written from a fan perpective, sentences like "Cassius Clay indeed "Shook up the world!" as he promised." should be removed.
There are more issues with this article, I hope this helps. Jaranda wat's sup 23:03, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for all the great input.  I wasn't totally certain before submitting that the article was ready for GA, but this information should help us take the article there. Cheers! Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 02:36, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Failed GA 

message: This entry says, "Ali also said in 1966: 'I ain't got no quarrel with them Viet Cong ... They never called me a nigger.'" without attribution. Wikiquote files this under "Misattributed" quotes, and claims that Ali biographer Thomas Hauser found no evidence of this quote after extensively searching. Perhaps Wikipedia should attribute its use of this quote?
Nishri 15:09, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It was actually very easy to find credible sources for the quote, although it does appear that the quote has some variations to it.  Just because somebody calls themselves a biographer doesn't mean they know how to do extensive searches -- I know this from personal experience. One would have to ask, how does Time and Newsweek report on something that has no basis?  Since we try to base material in this encyclopedia on what can be referenced, the greater weight is on Ali saying these words rather than not saying them. Somebody not being able to find something isn't notable.  What would be notable would be Ali saying "I didn't say that". Did Hauser ask Ali? Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 16:22, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I remember seeing film clips of Ali making that statement (at least the first part), which I believe happened at a press conference following his refusal to be inducted, although I could be wrong on that point. However, I haven't seen the actual clip in recent years, although I've read reports about it. Surely the major networks would have it in their archives. --NameThatWorks 17:20, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have certainly seen the "I ain't got no quarrel with them Vietcong" in more than one clip-said on more than one occasion-if my memory is accurate, he said it in an interview with Harry Carpenter on BBC TV (UK), among other occasions. This will surely be in BBC archives. I do not recall hearing or seeing the second part of the quote. The (first part of the) quote was worldwide news at the time, so surely is not too hard to source.Messagetolove 19:02, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The full quote is based on a verifiable reference.  Unless a counter-reference can be found, it probably needs to stay as-is. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 03:53, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The quote in [8] only gives the first part. The quote in [9] was indirect in a 1994 article,where it says "Ali was quoted as saying" the full quote,but it does not say where,when or by whom,and does not give any other verification. There are film clips including the first part of the quote. Is there any film clip or contemporary evidence of the full quote?Messagetolove (talk) 23:44, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  quote? 

message: So, does he reject the NOI now after converting in 1975? What are his views on them now? Also, what are his views of Malcolm X now? Is their a book documentary or book on this or can you give me some references here? I think these things need to be under the religion section of the article. Robert C Prenic 07:24, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Religion

message: * Proposal to merge article Rahman Ali (brother of Muhammad Ali) into Muhammad's article due to lack of information to cite into the article for Rahman. First the article needs refernces before being merged into Muhammad's article. Jahnx 05:13, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge proposal

message: 22:09, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Style

message: In the statistics box at the top of the page he is described as "multi-racial". There is no citation given for this claim. If he is multiracial then I think more detail as regards his heritage should be given in the "Biography" section.
Static Sleepstorm 14:24, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ethnicity: Multi-Racial 

message: Isn't he a Sufi now?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.203.162.21 (talk) 19:26, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Sunni?

message: To User:68.227.39.74: Your point about the various other references is well taken but does not strengthen your case for inclusion; rather, it suggests that the "Pop culture" section should be reworked as a "Bibliography". Trading cards and autographs are not particularly notable; they exist for literally thousands of athletes, and unless they are particularly rare or important (T206 Honus Wagner comes to mind) there's really nothing to be said here that couldn't also be said of those other athletes. 
You do have a point about video games and other references, and perhaps those should be trimmed down. Doing so, however, does not militate for the inclusion of trading cards and autographs. 
Also, if you're going to spout off about how you've "published about Ali for over a decade", your real identity (or at least your pen name) would help, instead of just hiding behind an IP address. Simishag (talk) 00:37, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: At the very least, the specific nature of your claims demands verification through proper sources.  Please see WP:V. Simishag (talk) 01:11, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

text: This sort of if-then "analysis" is not going to win you any friends here. You are conflating the dispute over your content with unrelated content that has existed for some time and was not (until now) in dispute. Your most recent changes are disruptive and your use of terms like "anecdotal" and "silly" are suggestive of pushing an agenda. Simishag (talk) 01:11, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Yes, well, that goes both ways. Your rapid fire reverts do not suggest a collegial attitude. Simishag (talk) 01:11, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Your identity is still unclear. You claim to be a publisher (or perhaps you meant author). What have you written that makes you an authority on Ali? Surely you can provide a bibliography of your works. Simishag (talk) 01:11, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Trading cards

message: The discussion regarding the Supreme Court case is incomplete.  The result of the decision is not clearly stated, and there is no analysis of the reasons that the Court overturned the lower court decisions.  The text as it presently exists also suggests that the Court was moved by increasing public support.  To suggest the Court acted on that basis, and not according to the law, amounts to an attack on the integrity of the Justices.  If it is true, it needs to be supported by citation to the source material. - John Paul Parks 130.13.4.81 (talk) 17:58, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Inadequate Discussion of Supreme Court Decision

message: Do we not all agree that Ali was the best? Stop arguing and put references in. I am totally shocked that such a famous person does not have a GA article or an FA rating. Read the books. --andreasegde (talk) 19:59, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: The Greatest

message: I have seen this claim , "Joe Frazier, who had become champion during Ali's absence from the ring, often gave financial assistance to Ali during this time." on a number of occasions do we have any source for it?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.234.10.144 (talk) 14:27, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Claim? 

message: "Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee."  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.179.139.5 (talk) 18:18, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Famous sayings 

message: why is it protected? Ieditrandom (talk) 22:04, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: well, why can't i edit it if i'm a registered user? Ieditrandom (talk) 22:09, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Your account has to be active for four days and make at least 10 edits efore you can edit semi-protected pages. Please see WP:AUTOCONFIRM for more. Thingg⊕⊗ 22:52, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  protected 

message: Sufism/Tasawwuf is a part of Sunni Muslim orthodoxy. In fact, all the major Sufi orders, such as the Qadri and Naqshbandi orders, are Sunni in belief, and the majority of "folk" Muslims accept Sufism as a part of Islam. So its quite misleading to suggest that Ali has left Sunni Islam and "converted" to Sufism.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.202.74.134 (talk) 17:50, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regarding his "conversion" to Sufism 

message: In the biography, the brief mention of his sentence for refusing to serve in Vietnam omits any mention of where he was imprisoned and the dates of his imprisonment. Worker11811 (talk) 03:07, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  What about Ali's time in prison? 

message: To date, he remains the only man to have won the linear heavyweight championship three times (the linear title is recognized by tracing an - almost - unbroken lineage of titleholders going back over 100 years, with nearly every champion defeating the previous titleholder in the ring)
Not true. There is no linear heavyweight championship, not even when Ali was in his pomp. The idea of the linear champion is a boxer who wins the championship by beating the previous champion and then he loses to the next champion and so on. The line of men who beat the men was broken when Gene Tunney retired as champion in 1928. Max Schmeling and Jack Sharkey fought for the vacant title but neither was the linear champ as neither had beaten Tunney. 30 years later in Rocky Marciano also retired as champion and Floyd Patterson and Archie Moore boxed for the vacant championship. Again neither was the legitimate linear champion as they hadn't beaten Rocky. So by Ali's era the linear championship had already become defunct. Saying "nearly every champion" is a complete fudge and undermines the whole idea of the linear championship. 86.158.238.46 (talk) 20:24, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Linear Champion?

message: The page states (quote) "that he threw his Olympic gold medal into the Ohio River after being refused service at a 'whites-only' restaurant, and fighting with a white gang. Whether this is true is still debated, although he was given a replacement medal during the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta, where he lit the torch to start the games". It is no longer a debate, it did not happen. His medal was simply misplaced. Reference and live film of this can be seen 55 seconds into this Youtube clip. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9OlmPyjsNU  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.217.64.26 (talk) 16:27, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Medal NOT in Ohio river

message: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F06E7DC173BF93AA2575AC0A962948260
also link to wikipedia article on Columbia Pres:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NewYork-Presbyterian_Hospital
Johndoeemail (talk) 23:23, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Columbia Presbyterian reference 

message: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D01EEDD1639F932A15754C0A960958260
He won the olympic gold in boxing in 1960.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Johndoeemail (talk • contribs) 04:36, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  references 

message: regarding the who thingie:
"When Clay was 12 years old, he took up boxing under the tutelage of Louisville policeman Joe Martin. "
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/aaworld/reference/articles/muhammad_ali.html  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Johndoeemail (talk • contribs) 05:04, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re: who 

message: "On February 25, 1964...two days later, Clay shocked the boxing establishment again by announcing that he had accepted the teachings of the Nation of Islam"
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/aaworld/reference/articles/muhammad_ali.html  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Johndoeemail (talk • contribs) 05:17, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Joined the Nation of Islam on: 

message: "In what is regarded by many as the greatest prizefight of all time (the 'Thrilla in Manila'), Ali was declared the victor when Frazier's corner called a halt to the bout after 14 brutal rounds"
Johndoeemail (talk) 05:50, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  The greatest prizefight of all time 

message: I just caught his record down in the tabled format 56wins, 37 knockouts, and 5 losses. That table thing is extremely advanced for me. Since, I am a new user to wikipedia, can his record be placed elsewhere in the article for readability? Johndoeemail (talk) 06:19, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Professional Boxing Record 

message: Shouldn't we call him "Clay" for the period before he converted to Islam and changed his name? It's weird to talk about him as "Ali" in his early years. john k (talk) 02:13, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's probably more confusing and awkward to switch around in the middle of the article. --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 03:05, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree.  People still talk about "Clay-Liston fights" for instance, not "Ali-Liston" fights.  It is odd and off-putting to say that 'Ali had been seen around Miami and in other cities with the controversial Malcolm X. At the time, The Nation of Islam — of which Malcolm X was a member — was portrayed as a "hate group" by most of the media.'  Why would it be surprising that a man named Muhammad Ali was a Muslim?  We should call him "Clay" until he changes his name, then say how he changed his name, then call him "Ali." john k (talk) 17:11, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

text: I've taken the liberty of changing the article so as to use his birth name prior to his conversion.  Please read and see if you find it confusing.  If so, feel free to revert, but I'd be interested to hear other opinions on this. john k (talk) 17:20, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name usage