Talk:Estophilia

message: The fully spelt name from the image is 'Ramato Kohto lubbaga Tarto maa rahwa Näddali-Leht', with the two last words in BIG LETTERS.  This name's full translation is 'Book court sanctioned Tartu countryside people's weekly newspaper', with the word order preseved.  AFAIK, the literature usually refers to this newspaper as 'Maa rahva Näddali-Leht', or 'Maarahva Nädalaleht', which translates into 'Countryside People's Weekly' or 'Peasant's Weekly'.  'Maarahvas' is also significantly a pre-nation euphemism for ethnic Estonians, so it could also be translated as 'Estonians' Weekly'.  However, it should be pointed out that all of these names require some interpretation.  Using the full name is a bad option; while the law of the then-ruling Russian Empire required mentioning the censor's sanction, it was never used to refer to the newspaper; translating only the BIG LETTERS is another bad option, as the result, 'Weekly Newspaper', is rather ambiguous.
Finally, Estonian orthography was not stable at the time, and various dialects held considerable sway.  (Remember that the Great Language Unifier, trade, between peasants was geographically rather limited.)  The variant spelling of 'Näddala-Leht' is most likely a reference from its contemporary literature, based on slightly different pronounciation. Digwuren 02:08, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep.  The one pictured and the one mentioned next to Otto Wilhelm Masing are distinct newspapers, published more than a decade apart. Digwuren 05:59, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Partially to clarify this mixup, I started Timeline of early Estonian publications. Digwuren 16:21, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

text: This Vilde here is Eduard Vilde.  To the best of my knowledge, there's no relation to Peter Ernst Wilde nor Oscar Wilde.  (However, there's a pub in Tartu that deliberately compares Eduard Vilde to Oscar Wilde.  I think I have photos of it, somewhere, too.) Digwuren 16:40, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Newspaper's name 

message: An interesting curiosity lies around primacy of Lühike õpetus and the one on the picture.  While there's no question the former was published several decades earlier, the latter is the first publication considered unequivocally a newspaper.  Opinions regarding the appropriate classification of Lühike õpetus are more diverse; some believe it was a journal, despite of its volumes only having four pages; others believe it was a book that was published in hefts merely because of technical and economical reasons (which was not unheard of even a century and a half later, when Vilde's books were commonly published that way).  Thus, various sources consider either one or the other the first Estonian language publication. Digwuren 06:05, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This Vilde here is Eduard Vilde.  To the best of my knowledge, there's no relation to Peter Ernst Wilde nor Oscar Wilde.  (However, there's a pub in Tartu that deliberately compares Eduard Vilde to Oscar Wilde.  I think I have photos of it, somewhere, too.) Digwuren 16:40, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Primacy 

message: ..sounds strange I must say. haven't heard that it's been used that much. So why don't we rename the article to something whats' much more commonly in use like: Estophile? There are much more sources as well. Google books gives me 2 pages of books at the time when "Estophilia" returns 2 books.--Termer 06:41, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is unfortunately no joke, there was an attempt to delete the article by poeple ignorant of Estonian history. It is generally agreed that "Estophile" refers to the individual while "Estophilia" refers to the activities and ideas of Estophiles. Martintg 19:28, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I don't think there is consensus for a rename, some people will contest it. Encyclopedia Britannica isn't the only source. Estonia's Encyclopedia Estonica refers to it as "Estophilia". See reference 5 in the article "The Baltic Landesstaat: Emergence of national consciousness and Estophilia". Martintg 09:39, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would say that the movement as a sum constitutes a more notable part of Estonia's history, and accordingly, should be a focus of the article.  Besides, the movement is relatively easy to source, but many individual Estophiles' contributions have been destroyed in fires, wars, and passage of time. Digwuren 18:20, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

text: I propose moving the article to Estophile movement. -- Petri Krohn 21:11, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I oppose this proposal as it would unnecessarily narrow the scope of the article. Martintg 22:45, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

text: I oppose this proposal, based on concerns outlined above. Digwuren 22:47, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

text: I thought you said it wasn't an obsession? :) That is why we have the article Estophilia, to discuss the activities and ideas of Estophiles, whether it is the historical Estophile Movement or modern Estophiles and the Turglas Society. I think articles should only be split if they get too big. Martintg 21:02, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Estophilia?

message: Hi Martintg, I can see your point but ..100 years seems to be misleading to me. even though the Estophile era started in the 50-s, the highpoint was still in the beginning of the 19th century that lead to the Estonian national awakening 50 years later. therefor I'd rephrase this in case the "50 years later" was considered factually incorrect. So is the 100 years later it seems to me. Since it was a process, not anything that a finger could be put on really I think.--Termer 06:47, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: almost 100 years later