Talk:2006 Islamic Courts Union offensive

message: Removed Ethiopia and Eritrea from the infobox, they haven't engaged in fighting. Yet. --TheFEARgod (Ч) 14:34, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not officially, perhaps. This article  cites a confidential UN report that states "The United Nations warned in a confidential report Oct. 26 that thousands of Ethiopian and Eritrean troops are in Somalia backing opposing sides, raising the risk of a regional war. " Although this doesn't mean they are involved in fighting is this enough to include them as protagonists? AndrewRT - Talk 15:06, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

text: No. UNIFIL was not a protagonist in the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict, neither the Lebanese Army, for example. --TheFEARgod (Ч) 15:50, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok good point. AndrewRT - Talk 20:22, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

text: They shouldn't be listed as combatants, but information about their influence/involvement should be part of the article expansion. See also the WashPost article. -Fsotrain09 04:19, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Combatants 

message: Great maps, thanks for putting them together. That's what I love about wikipedia - adding the factual detail that just gets missed when you follow current affairs in the commercial media.
One concern, however. The Somali Civil War is a purely internal affair involving only the territory of Somalia. Is it right to also include other territory that is part of Kenya, Ethiopia and Djibouti on this map? It could be considered partial to pan-Somali nationalism to include this in the map, and hence contrary to WP:NPOV. AndrewRT - Talk 15:18, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think Ingoman's reason for this was that those territories are mainly populated by Somalis, and thus likely to be involved in the conflict rather strongly. They also provide opportunity to show foreign (especially Ethiopian) troop movements on the map more easily. I think it's harmless, especially as the borders between the countries are very clearly drawn. —Nightstallion (?) 15:48, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Maps & NPOV 

message: I've gotten a semi-detailed map of Bay region, Somalia. I will try to make a base map for the Battle of Baidoa from it. However, I cannot find the location of Iidale (Idale) on the map. Does anyone have a Lat/Long coordinate for it? I might have similar topographical questions in the coming days. --Petercorless 21:24, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: More Maps

message: First of all I'd like to congratulate Ingoman and theFEARgod for their great work on this article.
The maps are so very detailed. Thanks a lot for your efforts guys!
I just have a few suggestions:
1 - If Ethiopia and Eritrea eventually intervene I'd like to coin the conflict as the "Horn War".
It should not be regarded as a Ethio-Eritrean war because it involves Somalia, and it should be not fall under the category of Somali civil war because what will be at stake will be the regional balance of power;
2 - Should we continue to adress the SICC (Supreme Islamic Courts Council) as ICU (Islamic Courts Union)?
I ask only because it's easier to say and identify ICU.
What do you guys think?
:The SICC is the ICU "senate", the way the Shura Council is the "house" of the ICU.  The proper name is still the Islamic Courts Union.  As to the regional war, I agree on your choice of name. --Ingoman 16:24, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Locals refer to the enemy troops as "SICC" troops, which I cited in an article on the ICU page. --Petercorless 17:35, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

text: I disagree with any Horn of Africa War nomer. As long as none of the fighting has taken place outside the borders of Somalia the war is not truly a regional one and should thus not be reffered to as such regardless of the Ethiopian and Eritrean involment. In the same manner as the Spanish Civil War was not a regional/continental war despite the German/Italian and Soviet involment. It would be good to mention that the war can be partialy seen as an Ethiopian-Eritrean proxy war though. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.212.75.164 (talk) 15:35, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regional War and ICU 

message: I cannot wait until the ICU captures all of Somalia and gets rid of those damn warlords. And why is the US supporting warlords. I thought they were spreading democracy in the world. It seems that the US is not spreading democratic ideology. It is more like anti communist, religious ideology. The will support brutal dictators such as Saddam or the puppet dictators in South America, just as long as they are not commies or good pious religious leaders. By the way I love the beautifal and detailed maps. Best article I have ever read. I like opening all the images on different windows. That way I can click from one window to the next and watch the green grow.
:I was under the impression the actual warlords have long ago lost, and the various branches of the provisional government are pretty much all that's left in the south? In the north, I don't think Puntland has anything to do with the warlords... Homestarmy 03:48, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: see my changes on the first four maps --TheFEARgod (Ч) 14:36, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I like it, we should do that for all the maps. --Ingoman 15:57, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Talib 72

message: That's a tough question really.  The ICU has attacked Ethiopian convoys, and the Ethiopians have taken part in all the TNG's offensives.  I think you could include Ethiopia as a combatant.--Ingoman 22:07, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Eritrea officially claims to have no troops in the country. I will add that to the page. --Petercorless 17:41, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Just how involved are Eritrea and Ethiopia?

message: Just changed a sentence in the opening paragraph of the orgins to read "This combination of brains, money and fighting power has proven to be very powerful." I felt it just sounds much better.70.51.86.204 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.51.86.204 (talk) 06:17, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Edit

message: ...with the Ethiopian attacks on ICU. See Afghan Civil War campaignbox for similar context. --TheFEARgod (Ч) 15:39, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: now we have two ongoing phases, that is silly. --TheFEARgod (Ч) 15:40, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This should remain the main article for updated information on the Civil War. We're not going to enter a new phase when the transitional government claims clashes with Eritrean troops are we? The Ethiopian intervention article is simply a breakout article which discusses in-depth the Ethiopian involvement reported here. The other article should focus solely on the actions of the Ethiopian military, while this article should discuss the broader conflict. We still have a civil war as the main source of conflict. —Aiden 07:52, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  This period has ended 

message: "While no definitive proof has materialized on either side, it is true that the suicide attack can only benefit Ethiopia, who has been trying to convince the world that the ICU is backed by al-Qa'ida."
Saying who the attack can only benifit is opinion, and a biased one, and in any case not at all appropriate for an encyclopedia. At the very least it needs a drastic rewording before it can be inlcluded. I removed that whole sentance. Harley peters 04:23, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  bias 

message: I added "Phases" to the conflict timeline so the page was broken up a bit more logically. --Petercorless 15:09, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Restructured Document 

message: The flip side of war is peace. I have created a separate page where diplomatic and humanitarian initiatives and news can be reported, separate from the military aspects of the conflict. Feel free to help buff it up. --Petercorless 12:53, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Somalia Diplomatic and Humanitarian Efforts]] 

message: It documents a current event, failing the stability criteria. Wiki-newbie 15:30, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Failed GA

message: Why the "period" and not Somali Civil War (2006)? I see no reason to deviate from the usual naming conventions...  —Nightstallion (?) 17:22, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: because I was unable to move it because it was already a redirect (I am not an admin), cheers --TheFEARgod (Ч) 17:47, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah. In case something like this happens again, just tell me and I'll do it. <tT>:)</tt> Cheers! —Nightstallion (?) 00:26, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I still fail to see why the page was moved from Somali Civil War (2006-present). According to every major news organization, the war is still ongoing. The ICU and the transitional government forces are in daily conflict. Alleged Ethiopian intervention is no different from alleged Eritrean involvement. It is still part of the broader ongoing civil war. Thus, it is factually inaccurate to say that the conflict is still not ongoing. —Aiden 07:13, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

text: no, they refer to the new war with Ethiopia. Please don't move.  --TheFEARgod (Ч) 13:14, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name? 

message: I have updated the United States involvement section, making citations to external sources and other Wikipedia articles. I removed some POV bias. Hopefully it meets the community's satisfaction at this point. --Petercorless 16:43, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Updated US involvement section 

message: This article, like alot of somali related ones, seem to fall into present and future tense, giving the impression that the infomation provided was copied and pasted from eternal sources that were created prior to current events.
Suffice to say I find it rather unprofessional to have articles structured so badly, perhaps a clean-up would help?.
- A wiki-user
:You can help! Realize that there are many articles that were in various states of organization when suddenly war broke out and changed many statements of fact which had been true even as recently as two weeks ago. Tenses indeed have changed. Many "ares" are now "weres." Many "plannings" became "events." I'm working on moving many former "current" events of the Transitional Federal Government to a related History of the TFG page. The same thing might need to happen here. Realize that it is also difficult to get some updates on the present conditions in Somalia because there's an active war going on. We don't have reports, for instance, of whether many of the established Islamic courts still meet, or whether they have gone into hiding. Again, if you have more information, or simply want to help clean up, feel free to pitch in. --Petercorless 16:44, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Needs looking over 

message: Please do not link to news.yahoo.com and to articles issued by Reuters (also at alertnet.org) or the Associated Press. They're existing only two or three months and then disappear and are therefore worthless, except for the claim of making an edit. The same problem is with newspaper websites which are using the original newsfeed of Reuters or AP, e.g. Washington Post (partly, can be easily recognised by the AP/Reuters logo near the headline), Forbes, CBS, partly CNN.
Safe links newspapers and other media outlets which usually publish AP/Reuters news without editing but keep them include BBC News (news.bbc.co.uk) Al Jazeera, Jerusalem Post, Independent Online (South Africa). In the cases in which the original title of the news is still available a Google advanced search with the exact phrase might be successfull to find and restore those links. Links to BBC News articles are safe, they stay forever. Links to Washington Post articles which had been published in the print edition are also safe and can be recognised by date and pagenumber near the title and byline of the article! --213.155.224.232 15:47, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations / Sources (Links) 

message: The following is copied from the talk page of Somalian War, which is a redirect to this article. As such, "talk" does not belong there, and is being consolidated here. LordAmeth 14:20, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ICU claims that there has been. Rmhermen 17:20, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Here is one allegeation:  but there are others all about the same. (Rather like the Americans advisors in the first years of the Vietnam War - We are just training them.) Rmhermen 22:00, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Yes that's one month ago - declaration of war - I've seen no confrontation--TheFEARgod (Ч) 22:20, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No they are saying that they were in conflict with Somalian and Ethiopian troops fighting together - not just as advisors. Rmhermen 04:36, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Parallel Talk 

message: This article has been revised as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement.  Earlier text must not be restored, unless it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. --Mkativerata (talk) 19:52, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible copyright problem 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: page moved. As nom points out, title was not even remotely compatible with our policies and practice. This is an improvement.  Andrewa (talk) 00:23, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: The rise of the Islamic Courts Union →  – Current title is non-standard and violates WP:THE. The sources cited in the article do not use a specific name for this event, but they generally refer to the initiators of the offensive as "Somali warlords" so that is the title I am proposing. Open to other suggestions. Rublov (talk) 17:53, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 16 June 2021