Talk:John Barleycorn

message: There is also a novel called John Barleycorn by Jack London. Should we change the name of this page and create a disambiguation page or just add a note at the top? Stroika 14:17, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd add a custom disambiguation line.  The Jack London novel takes its name from the folk tradition that this one is about.  Smerdis of Tlön 14:49, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Aaah that's what the  tag is called. Ta. A preferable solution. Stroika 15:17, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name change? 

message: The claim that the recording by Traffic is the most notable seems more opinion than encyclopedic.  Is there a particular reason why this is the most notable recording? --Robminchin 05:29, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Most notable recording?

message: Does someone want to rewrite (delete?) the second paragraph? It has no citation ans seems speculative at best. And it has errors: refering to corn, not barley and refering to bread not liquor. Or am I missing something?WBerta 15:48, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: widely held beliefs can still be wrong beliefs! ;) Totnesmartin 19:33, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: John Barleycorn as a pagan rite?

message: A couple of the paragraphs here:
"The song is frequently cited by devotees of Sir James George Frazer..."
and 
"As shown above, the point of the tale told by the original versions is twofold:..."
surely either need modification to refer to particular performances, or to be moved to the main text. Ffetcher 08:38, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Performances

message: :Image:Traffic-John Barleycorn Must Die (album cover).jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 04:49, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Traffic-John Barleycorn Must Die (album cover).jpg

message: :Image:Traffic-John Barleycorn Must Die (album cover).jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 05:19, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Traffic-John Barleycorn Must Die (album cover).jpg

message: I have once heard "John Barleycorn" sung to the tune better known in connection with We plough the fields, and scatter, with the refrain "Put your wine into glasses, put your cider into old tin cans/John Barleycorn in the light brown jug will prove the strongest man". This was at a muster of the King's Army, English Civil War Society, c. 1981, but I am in no position to vouch for its authenticity.Captain Pedant (talk) 22:31, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Wir pflugen

message: found in the novel "pollen" by jeff noon. too lazy to transcribe what he writes there.
basically suggests that egyptian god osiris has pre-christian british isles
equivalence in the figure of j barleycorn. this is non-academic (pollen is 
a work of fiction) but i think the point at least should be included in this
page that j barleycorn is not so much a "food" god as he is a "trickster"
god like loki or osiris.
attempted to be killed multiple times, failing that, cut into pieces, then returns
*in the form of alchohol itself* or the "spirit" of the fermented drink, not the
literal wheat, food, etc. the subversion of the food itself, via fermentation, and
drugs the mind as opposed to nourishing the body!
the name "barleycorn" and the "farming song" etc likely a christian expurgiation
of a powerful pagan diety. this is to be found in the aforementioned novel by
jeff noon if you care to look. j barleycorn is portrayed therein as a pre-christian
"satan" e.g. loki or osiris or hades etc. the post christian devil being of course
purely malignant, the pagan version is instead clever, deceptive, rasputinesque,
dangerous to men, and enjoying toying with men, yet not at all times hated by the
"beloved" gods, or even by men, dependant on situation.
i hope this is useful. i think the importance of this character is highly underestimated
since i with jeff noon feel that barleycorn might be a key vestige of an extremely
important pagan diety on the ancient british pantheon -- information of most of which
is tragically almost completely lost....
all that being said, i would be pleased with just a brief note hitting on the key
points "trickster god, osiris similarity, connection to alchohol, probably changed
by christians", and also in the external references or miscellany, a mention of the
jeff noon novel "pollen". and if this is acedemically controversial, then introduce
it as such but IMHO the osiris paralel is startling enough that what i'm saying
here deserves the mention. (moreso than we need to hear about a chumbawamba song, lol)
peace.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Reetside (talk • contribs) 17:18, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  John Barleycorn comparible to Osiris legend 

message: There are various unsupported assertions concerning pagan origins for this 16th century song.  The first appearance of the song is many centuries after Christianity replaced paganism in Britain, and such assertions need solid references to be credible.  Eastcote (talk) 03:22, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. :bloodofox: (talk) 03:29, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unsourced assertions and weasel wording. 

message: ON a personal note I enjoyed this article; after tracing down a reference in "Billions"
I changed a single word in the article to improve readability. 
In overview, this article is worthwhile but its original research and as such is wordy with limited or no support.
In contrast this is what Britannica has to say;
John Barleycorn, fictional humorous personification of alcohol, first appearing about 1620. John Barleycorn was a figure in British and American folklore. British sources often refer to the character as Sir John Barleycorn, as in a 17th-century pamphlet, The Arraigning and Indicting of Sir John Barleycorn, Knight, and in a ballad found in The English Dancing Master (1651). The Scottish poet Robert Burns reworked folk material for his poem “John Barleycorn” (1787).
I think the above is more encyclopedic.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.203.10.104 (talk) 21:47, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Original Research, Wordy, and Primary Sourced 

message: The article is full of discussion of the lyric but I can't find any mention of the melody. Where did it come from? Is it as old as the lyric? Is there more than one melody? Anybody know? Nogoodbooks (talk) 06:55, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Melody