Talk:Captain Beefheart

message: As I understand it, the only ultimate source for Beefheart's putative status as a prodigy was Beefheart himself, and according to those who knew him when he was young and worked with him, Beefheart had a pronounced proclivity for spouting untruths, particularly pertaining to himself. 17:24, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: So the current source in the lead is a Rolling Stone article, whish originally appeared in The Rolling Stone Encyclopedia of Rock & Roll (Simon & Schuster, 2001), and which says this: "" Do you have any sources to disprove these claims? They are expanded somewhat in the main body of the article, but it is made clear that "" (Barnes 2000, p. 2). So that one is indeed a self-made claim. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:08, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I would not be surprised if Van Vliet invented positive things about himself. But this begs the question of whether or not Rolling Stone is really RS here or has been undermined by better sources in this case. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:29, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Quite. Artists mythologise themselves, and their sycophantic acolytes encourage them. If Wiki quoted everyting Salvador Dalí said about himself....FangoFuficius (talk) 06:52, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

text: I've added two reliable sources, out of the many available, that describe him as a child prodigy sculptor (including the already given Rolling Stone article), and I've amended the article text accordingly, adding two reliable sources. Just as an aside, I bought Trout Mask Replica in 1970, and found it unlistenable, "genius" or not. I did like his vocal on the song Willie the Pimp from Zappa's album Hot Rats, and still sing it occasionally.;-) Carlstak (talk) 15:26, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm nor sure that genius in clay modelling necessarily transfers to genius in the musical sphere. Maybe Mozart was dab hand at needlework, but no-one seems to have discovered that yet. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:22, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point.;-) Carlstak (talk) 16:45, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

text: Would you like to sign? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:13, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

text: Thanks. Sorry if it's "petitio princippii", but do you regard Rolling Stone as an WP:RS source or not? Martinevans123 (talk) 16:25, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

text: I've no objection to changing the text to read e.g. "Rolling Stone described Van Vliet as a child-prodigy sculptor." But the status of Rolling Stone (and the book it quotes), are hardly "irrelevant" to the content of this article. This content has been here for some time (years?) because everyone agrees that RS is an WP:RS. "Rolling Stone (culture)" is coloured green at WP:RSP. Themz the rulez? Martinevans123 (talk) 16:39, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: History books often use this construction: VV was "a prodigy" (Rolling Stone). However, I wouldn't recommend that, as Rolling Stone is mere rock journalism, which is a joke (are you going to quote everything Charles Shaar Murray or Julie Burchill ever wrote as biblical truth?). Ugh, I've just noticed you've even got Cooder down as a guitar prodigy. I give up!FangoFuficius (talk) 06:42, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

text: Agreed. The source itself is reporting this range as hearsay. There is no need to put a specific figure unless there is a reliable source for it. The article could simply say he has a wide range. ChrisTheLemon (talk) 14:47, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  Both the given sources (and Rolling Stone is not always reliable for factual information about performers) make qualified statements regarding this claim, so it's undue. We all know a  seven and a half octave vocal range is bullshit. Carlstak (talk) 01:11, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prodigy? 

message: I was relieved not to be able to find a single reference to this on the rest of the www. Could the Captain have made it up? 2A00:23C4:5602:2301:C01:5A9D:1C8C:5E8A (talk) 19:17, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  cutting bills off pelicans?