Talk:European Scout Region (World Organization of the Scout Movement)

message: Can anyone provide information on this organization? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 05:13, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Scouts of the European Coal and Steel Community

message: At the moment, the Vatican text reads, "As far as is known, there has never been a Scouting organization in Vatican City", and I've placed a  tag on this. Either there has been Scouting in the Vatican at some time, or there has never been. Which of these is true is knowable, and certainly known to someone in the world, or at least determinable from records. The "as far as is known" part is evasive and without value. So I recommend selecting between one of two treatments:
* Remove the "as far as is known" part, leaving the sentence as the bold but unsubstantiated assertion, "There has never been a Scouting organization in Vatican City" and leaving the  tag until someone either provides a source or rewrites the sentence or removes the section.
* Replace the whole sentence with "There is currently no Scouting organization in Vatican City", which is verifiable from a glance at the WOSM roster, and accept that Wikipedia has no pressing need to make any representations regarding the larger question of whether Scouting has ever existed in the Vatican.
I think the latter is the more solid course to take. Thoughts? —Largo Plazo (talk) 23:54, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrapping up the Vatican section 

message: I won't enter into the current edit war, but I will just point out that there is a Rupert Schildboeck who works at the European scout office.
Why don't you all discuss here the changes?
Also, all of you, please don't assume everyone is aware of all the issues.
For example, I suggest that everyone read Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Macedonia), and especially the paragraph Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Macedonia)#International organizations.
Please, everyone, explain why you think your version is better, and do it in more than a one-liner!
Yours in Scouting
Lou Crazy
--Lou Crazy (talk) 14:45, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit war? 

message: "The European Scout Region comprises 41 National Scout Organizations that are members of the World Organization of the Scout Movement, and services Scouting in Western and Central Europe, excluding the former Soviet Republics of Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Georgia, Moldova, Russia, and Ukraine, but inclusive of Cyprus (technically not part of Europe) and Turkey (which spans across two continents), for cultural reasons, and Israel for political ones." 
- Stating that ESR services Scouting in Western and Central Europe is deeply wrong, since there is also South East Europe as well as North Europe, etc...NSOs and NSAs (National Scout Organisations/Associations) of countries of as you say "former Soviet Republics" are not part of European Scout Region and that has nothing to do with politics, this countries are part of Eurasia Scout Region and in separate region due to specific attention they need because of at first place the fact that Scouting was forbidden for some time durring the age when they were former SSSR republics. 
Cyprus is geographically and any other aspect in Europe! That is fact that every kid in Europe learn from Geography mostly even in elementary school...therefore I assume that I don't need to prove this? Also, Turkey is partially in Europe and therefore not from cultural reasons as it states there. 
This statement is very wrong: "...Israel for political ones" and sound as someone opinion...but Wikipedia should not be place for opinions as such.  —Matanackovic
: See Europe, :File:Europe subregion map UN geoschme.svg and :File:Europe subregion map world factbook.svg.
: It's only parts of Eastern Europe that aren't adminstered by the ESR. The current focus on Western and Central Europe is wrong.
: Cyprus, Israel and Turkey needs further discussion. I'd like to get some input on this from Mihajlo oder Rupert. I think, we have to go back to the moment, when the regions were created. --jergen (talk) 16:52, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: When I wrote that section, I was coming from my own training, which in America divides Europe into two or three sections only. Scandinavia from the American view is Western Europe, meaning not one of the former Warsaw Pact nations. The Balkans likewise are counted as Central Europe, the kind of grey area in the middle and so on. I realize that definitions change and that different education systems teach differently. I invite a rewrite of the truly European geography, however:
** The countries of UN Regional Code 145, Western Asia include Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Cyprus, Georgia, Iraq, Israel, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, the Palestinian Territories, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, Yemen (bolding mine). What the United Nations says trumps what you learned in elementary school.
** Cyprus is geographically in Asia, and before the partition was culturally 80% European. Had enosis occurred with Greece, there would be no question that Cyprus is Europe, at present it is a grey area like Greenland, geographically elsewhere but culturally tied to Europe.
** If Turkey was indisputably European, it would have no problem joining the EU, despite objections from others. It is in fact 90% in Asia, and a much different culture than you find in Lisbon or Edinburgh or Warsaw. I am 12.5% of French heritage but I don't call myself French. Europe needs to get its definition of who is European straight before you start making statements like the above.
** Israel is nowhere close to Europe, Judaism is a Western Asian religion, Hebrew is an Afroasiatic language, there is no logic that puts Israel in Europe. In fact, Israel is surrounded by neighbors given to mutual hostility, and the Arab Region accepts the Palestinian Scout Association. The same strip of land cannot geographically be on two continents, so please tell us, why is Israel in the European Region? That is encyclopedic and worthwhile to know.
** Finally, the post-Soviet states are mentioned to draw attention to the fact that WOSM has 6 regions where WAGGGS has only 5. As this is an encyclopedia, it's a valid point worth knowing.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 04:18, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Members

message: This is not official part of WOSM European Scout Region. On the wiki page "European Scout Region (World Organization of the Scout Movement)" we should not write about Scouting in Europe that is where this subregional groups might find it's place. Beside this, there is many more non-formal Scouting groupings and networks in Europe.  —Matanackovic
:# See my statement further down. Even when informal und WOSM and WAGGGS "law" the non formal groups and networks should be mentioned somewhere. Europak mentions five working groups, but there are also some geographical groups.
:# There are no sources on this because these groups were formed outside of the constitution. --jergen (talk) 16:42, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with Jergen on this. The article is not about strict adherence to WOSM documents, but existing facts.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 04:20, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Subregional groups

message: Sorry, but this paragraph in absolutely not true. There is no Scout groups that are administered by WSB. —Matanackovic
: The section was inserted in the article without any source. Boy Scouts of the United Nations speaks of an independent association and  says that they were registered directly to the IB. --jergen (talk) 16:44, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Again per Jergen, anomalies need to go somewhere, and the BSUN existed on indisputably European soil.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 04:24, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Regional Scouts administered directly by WOSM

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Now that some Eurasian members have joined the European group, the map will need to be updated by a willing editor with experience. Also, the members have been added on this list, but not in alphabetical order. Archives908 (talk) 23:23, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Updates needed