Talk:Roberto Clemente/Archive 1

message: The writer of the article needs to mention the fact Clemente had a wife, Vera, and three sons.  Any standard biography of a famous person would note a family, if any.--Susan Nunes 5/06/06
does anyone know how Clemente died?
# The article doesn't say anything about Clemente being a Marine, although apparently he was.
# What's the deal with Roberto Clemente Walker? 
Happy new year, WP! One of my last contribs for 2005. Paul 23:54, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Note to editors

message: I wondered too about the name Roberto Clemente Walker.  Some googling found several references to "Roberto Clemente Walker" and several to "Roberto Walker Clemente".  I even found, quite unhelpfully, "Roberto (Walker) Clemente".  The only place I found even the smallest partial explanation was , an Encyclopedia Britanica website: "For 27 years the plaque at the National Baseball Hall of Fame read 'Roberto Walker Clemente,' mistakenly placing his mother's maiden name before his father's surname. Only in 2000 was it changed to its proper Latin American form, Roberto Clemente Walker."  So I suppose "Roberto Walker Clemente" follows US (and elsewhere) naming convention while "Roberto Clemente Walker" follows Latin American (or at least Puerto Rican) naming convention.  Assuming this to be correct, it still does not explain why he became known as "Roberto Clemente" rather than as "Roberto Walker" to American baseball fans. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.125.99.83 (talk • contribs) 00:39, 14 February 2006
:In Spain as well as Latin America, individuals take their father's last name as well as their mother's last name.  Hence Clemente was his father's last name, and Walker was his mother's last name.  While having two last names might be confusing it is commonplace in Latin America.  One reason you might have seen it as "Roberto Walker Clemente" is likely because MLB or others wanted to avoid confusion of his last name.  Hence he takes just his father's last name to blend in, if you will, to a culture where mostly everyone only has one last name.  And in Latin American countries, if you were to sort a group of individuals by name, you would use their father's last name, then their mother's, and then their first name. I hope this clears things up. -- malo (tlk) (cntrbtns) 07:23, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I found Roberto Clemente Walker here http://www.whitehouse.gov/kids/dreamteam/robertoclemente.html Terinjokes 16:49, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Surname 

message: I have reverted two recent edits that attempted to change the number of siblings.  The only source I have found thus far stating the number of siblings is http://www.latinosportslegends.com/clemente.htm  which states 7.  If someone else can find a reputable source with a different number, then by all means please post it here.  Thanks -- malo (tlk) (cntrbtns) 07:11, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number of siblings dispute 

message: I have included a short mention of the heroic way this man died in the abstract, as I feel that this is of importance.--R6rome 12:12, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Abstract 

message: I'm trying to verify this statement: "He was elected to the Hall of Fame posthumously in 1973 as the first Hispanic American to be selected."  This website: http://www.latinosportslegends.com/clemente.htm seems to say he's the first Latino player to be inducted.  The statement previously read, "He was elected...in 1973 as the second Hispanic American to be selected (Lefty Gomez being the first in 1972)."  The same website (http://www.latinosportslegends.com/lgomez.htm) claims Gomez was the second Hispanic player to be inducted.  Gomez was b. in California, but I don't know if his heritage is from Spain or Latin America.  Any help clearing this up and adding a citation in the article would be appreciated. DogcatcherDrew 17:58, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nationality in Hall of Fame 

message: Clearly, he was a Marine, and is in the USMC sports hall of fame. Can someone please add information about when he was in Marines? DocGratis 16:07, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  USMC 

message: ok, Clemente was great - no question - but the McCarver quote is a little overboard.  The greatest right fielder of all time?!?  Some guy named Babe Ruth might have a claim to that distinction...
Not sure what the discussion here is about.  It is a quote that expresses an oppinion.  You don't apparently agree with it but it is indicative of what one of his contemporary baseball players thought of him.  McCarver apparently said this, or something like it, on his television show sometime in October of 2006.  I can find references to the quote in various forms on the internet but short of a transcript of the show being put up by its producers, I don't see how a citation could be created.--Mike padilla 20:44, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: greatest right fielder of all time?

message: Wasn't Thurman Munson the next player eligible for early postumous induction in 1979?
"On March 20, 1973, the Baseball Writers Association of America held a special election for the Baseball Hall of Fame. They voted to waive the waiting period for Clemente, due to his death, and posthumously elected him for induction into the Hall of Fame, giving him 393 of the 420 available votes, or 92% of the vote. Since then, the Writers Association has made this exemption for all eligible players that die before their waiting period lapses, though it has only been exercised in practice for Darryl Kile, who died of a heart attack during the 2002 season."  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.204.38.70 (talk) 15:15, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hall of Fame... 

message: The intro states he was the youngest of seven, (ie. he had six siblings). But in Early life it states he had 6 brothers and 1 sister... (seven siblings). Other sources I found on line indicate there were only seven total but I don't know how many were sisters so I deleted one brother.--Xtrump (talk) 20:40, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: whoops! my bad, you are right I just checked his biography and he was the youngest of a total of seven, thus six siblings. - Caribbean~H.Q. 21:24, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Number of siblings

message: I was planning on reviewing this article, but I was informed that might be a conflict of interest because I did some copyediting. I think the article is very well done, but I had three concerns:
# It's hard to tell if everything it cited. In a few (but not many) places, there is one citation that may cover the previous 3-4 sentences, but it's hard to tell. In addition, the final sentences in "The 1970s" and "Death in airplane accident" don't have citations.
# I thought that a "Personal life" section would be a nice place to put the information about his wedding, wife and children. It just seems out of place in the middle of baseball statistics.
# The article has little information about 1966-1969. That seems like a lot to skip over. A few sentences there would help.
Hope this helps with the review. GaryColemanFan (talk) 23:46, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I considered creating a separate personal life section but though that it might be a bit small so I organized it chronologically. I will be able to come along the biography that was used to source parts of this article tommorow, the book can reference the mayority if not the entirety of the article so if you can list where you think a reference is needed (possibly by using the  template) I can find one for there. The book has some material for 1966-1968 but not particular detail of 1969, but I think there is enough there to warrant a few sentences. Thanks for the tips. - Caribbean~H.Q. 02:33, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notes prior to GA review 

message: After reviewing the revisions, this article meets the Good Article requirements of Wikipedia. Your excellent work on the article of one of baseball's most important figures is an invaluable contribution to Wikipeida; thanks! I hope you continue to improve the article all the way up to Featured Article status. All the best, Monowi (talk) 07:19, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks to you for providing such a detailed review, cheers. - Caribbean~H.Q. 07:35, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA Review Passed 

message: Somebody is usually referred to as a former something-or-other when he is no longer that something-or-other due to some circumstance other than death.  So if Clemente was a right fielder at the time of his death, referring to him as a former Major League Baseball right fielder is misleading.  Also, isn't saying he was a professional baseball player and a Major League Baseball right fielder a bit redundant as the latter implies the former? --Raaronson (talk) 13:39, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The former is hair-splitting. He is no longer a baseball player, at least not on this earth. The latter is a good point. Keep the MLB, lose the redundant "professional". Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 13:46, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''Former'' Major League Baseball right fielder? 

message: The section discussing Clemente's death notes that he held a Pirates record for most triples "scored" in a game and that he is the only player to have "scored" a walk-off inside-the-park grand slam.  "Hit" would probably be more appropriate in those places than "scored." Villageidiom71990 (talk) 07:02, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 07:07, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If it's the last of the 9th at Forbes Field, and the Pirates are down by 3, and the bases are full ,and Roberto hits a long gapper, everybody runs until they score, and that's a "walk-off" grand-slammer; although the term wasn't in use then. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 22:30, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There is a problem with the citation, in that it gives no specifics, so it's not a very good citation. However, it was easy to find on Google  and now that we have the date and the facts, "On July 25, 1956, Roberto Clemente hit a walk-off inside-the-park grand slam in the ninth inning to defeat the Cubs, 9-8, at Forbes Field," it's easy to find on Retrosheet  which unfortunately doesn't confirm that it was inside the park, but at least confirms it was a game-ending slam. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 22:36, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: He hit it off Jim Brosnan, and this writeup has a little more info:  Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 22:40, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Scored" vs. "hit" (a minor point) 

message: The citation for the Medal of freedom is a bad link.  It goes to a search page.  I would fix it but right now I don't have the time. Lycaenion (talk) 00:48, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Presidential Medal of freedom

message: Clemente wore #13 in his rookie year (source: "Now Batting, Number...:  The Mystique, Superstition, and Lore of Baseball's Uniform Numbers" by Jack Looney.  New York:  Black Dog & Leventhal Publishers, Inc. 2006.  , p. 84).  He later chose #21:  the number of letters in "Roberto Clemente Walker"  (source:  "Clemente!" by Kal Wagenheim.  New York:  Praeger Publishers, 1973, p. 54).   Psalm 119:105 (talk) 08:00, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number 13 

message: "Roberto Clemente Night" is July 24, 1970. Because "Last night, to honor another Puerto Rican hero, the bank sponsored a live color telecast to Puerto Rico of "Roberto Clemente Night" in Pittsburgh . ...July 25, 1970"  --KANESUE 06:59, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Roberto Clemente Night 

message: At the end of the second paragraph, the article says Clemente won the 1960 World Series as a starting pitcher. Really?!? P. Kalina 69.72.29.224 (talk) 12:15, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed. It originally said "starter", and a subsequent editor got a little confused. I changed it to read "starting player", although I'm not so sure that's the best way to say it. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 12:24, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Starting pitcher? 

message: Please change "the first Hispanic to" to "the first Hispanic player to" in the second paragraph, as this reflects the more culturally appropriate use of the term "Hispanic" as an adjective rather than a noun.
Stevehcollins (talk) 07:49, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request from Stevehcollins, 20 April 2010 

message: This is my review for the article’s GA nomination; I hope you find it both comprehensive and helpful. I’ve broken it separate parts; initial comments, assessment, required changes for passage, and suggestions.
Initial Comments:
The current references are formatted extremely well, with the kind of effort and detail rarely found in other Wikipedia articles; excellent work!! The introduction is well written, although I’m disappointed that this article wasn’t copy-edited more thoroughly before I reviewed it.
:GA review (see here for criteria)
#It is reasonably well written.
#:a (prose):  b (MoS): 
#:: 
#It is factually accurate and verifiable.
#:a (references):  b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR): 
#:: 
#It is broad in its coverage.
#:a (major aspects):  b (focused): 
#:: 
#It follows the neutral point of view policy.
#:Fair representation without bias: 
#:: 
#It is stable.
#:No edit wars etc.: 
#:: 
#It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
#:a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):  b (appropriate use with suitable captions): 
#:: 
#Overall: 
#:Pass/Fail: 
#:: 
Changes required for GA passage:
#add a career statistics section much like the one in Lee Smith’s article (except use Clemente’s hitting stats of course)
#Please add the Persondata template
#wikilink  “Glove Glove Awards” in the second paragraph of the introduction 
#the second paragraph of the intro states, “…the only exception to the mandatory five-year post-retirement waiting period….” Other players, including Darryl Kile, have had their waiting periods waived. So, to be accurate, the sentence should read something like, “and the only current Hall of Famer whose mandatory five year waiting period was waived.” 
# The sections “Pittsburgh Pirates”, “The 1960s” and “The 1970s” should be level 2 headings under the “Baseball career” section 
#In the second sentence of the Baseball career section, change “to the team’s starting lineup on his second season” to “to the team’s starting lineup the following season.” (it sounds much better that way). 
#In the next sentence after that, change “During this season he batted in the team’s lead off position and his average was .288” to read “During this season he hit .288 as the team’s leadoff hitter.” 
#In the second to last sentence of the “Baseball career” section, remove the space between the period and the “n’ in Max Macon.
#In the first sentence of the “Pittsburgh Pirates” section, change “…double header involving the Brooklyn Dodgers” to “…double header against the Brooklyn Dodgers.”
#In the next sentence after that, change “…racial tension between himself and the local media and some of his teammates” to “racial tension between himself, the local media, and even some of his teammates.
#reuse citation number ten immediately after Clemente’s quote “I don’t believe in color.” All direct quotations should always be immediately followed by the source material it came from. In this instance, simply format the first part of citation as <ref name=”color”>, or however you want to name that particular reference, and then put the text  after the period where that quote is.
#In the first sentence of the second paragraph of the “pirates” section, remove the space after the word "season" and put it in front of the next word, as in, “During the middle of the season, Clemente was involved in a car accident…”
#Change “this led to him losing several games…” to “this caused him to miss several games…”
#In the 1960s section, start a new paragraph after the sentence that begins, “He added strength by gaining ten pounds….”
#In the 1960's section, the article says that the Pirates had their first winning season in 1959.  That was 1958 - they finished 84-70.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.158.175.136 (talk) 03:01, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the points have been attended, about the biography I will try to find another one to compliment this one but I relly heavily on what appears on e-bay since my personal life leaves me with little free time during the day, I will see what can be done as well as working with Gary's suggestions. Thanks for reviewing. - Caribbean~H.Q. 05:52, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA Review and why article is on hold

message: In a January 31, 2011, article by Robert Knapel in the Bleacher Report, the US's 4th largest sports media site with 20 million monthly readers, Roberto Clemente was ranked first among the "The 25 Best Outfield Arms in MLB History."  <ref="http://bleacherreport.com/articles/590862-mlb-power-rankings-the-25-best-outfield-arms-in-mlb-history#/articles/590862-mlb-power-rankings-the-25-best-outfield-arms-in-mlb-history/page/26"/ref>— Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.55.87.93 (talk) 02:36, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why ignore his throwing arm & base running? 

message: So, if his name is actually Walker, why's he usually called Clemente?  TREKphiler hit me ♠  03:36, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Walker is his second last name, we don't use the same format employed by anglo countries. - Caribbean~H.Q. 02:55, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thx for clearing that up. (No cmt on points below... They are interesting, tho. ;D )  TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura  03:34, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

text: If I've got this right, Clemente was his father's name and Walker was his mother's name, and men (women also?) tend to go by their fathers' surnames. Somewhat of an aside, someone Hispanic once told me that if you have only one surname, that's kind of a bad thing, because it means you don't know who your father is. Is that true? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:06, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You are correct, Clemente is his father's surname and Walker is his mother's surname. And no, men don't use only one surname. We actually keep both of the parent's surname in the first generarion (sons & daughters), the second generation (grandchildren) is the one that drops the mother's surname regardless of gender. - Caribbean~H.Q. 03:14, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: If a child was born to an unmarried woman, would it have only one surname instead of two? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:31, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, if the father refused to recognize him/her and the case wasn't pursued further, then yes. But that is generally resolved with time, since stepfathers usually recognize the child as their own. - Caribbean~H.Q. 03:34, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

text: The articles states that when Clemente and Orlando Cepeda returned to Puerto RIco after the 1961 season, Puerto Ricans were celebrating "the first season in which both leagues in Major League Baseball were led in batting average by Puerto Rican players." In fact, the American League batting champion in 1961 was Detroit Tigers' first baseman Norm Cash, who was a white Texan. 
Perhaps the confusion here is caused by the fact that Cepeda had led the National League in home runs, thus making 1961 the first season in which Puerto Ricans led a league in two major offensive categories.- 06:10, 30 December 2009  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jososen (talk • contribs)  
OK, it is noted here that "Clemente Walker" is the Hispanic way of displaying last names.  Could someone put in a note at the top of the article to that effect?  I have seen such a note elsewhere, but haven't looked into the format of it (so I am making such insertion myself).  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.82 (talk) 18:58, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Base on balls ("Walker"!)

message: Was it being foreseen that Clemente was going to try to play again in the 1973 major-league season?  He and Bill Mazeroski were the last remaining Pirate players from the 1960 World Series champions, and Mazeroski, according to Retrosheet site, was released in later Oct. 1972 (ending playing career).  There is no note about Clemente after the 1972 season & playoffs, but as you know he was killed in plane crash on New Year's Eve.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.82 (talk) 16:48, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  What was being foreseen for 1973? 

message: Ted Williams was half Mexican.  He won the MVP.  So is Clemente really the first Hispanic MVP?  71.184.189.193 (talk) 03:53, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You are confusing "Hispanic" with "Latino" (i.e. "Latin American" or "of Latin American heritage"), Ted Williams was Latino, but he was not "Hispanic" (i.e. hispanoparlante or "Spanish-speaker") the American media has been mixing those two for a while. - Caribbean~H.Q. 22:33, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

text: Then apparently, so has the US Census Bureau, dictionaries, and encyclopediae. "The terms "Hispanic" or "Latino" refer to persons who trace their origin or descent to Mexico, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Spanish speaking Central and South America countries, and other Spanish cultures. Origin can be considered as the heritage, nationality group, lineage, or country of the person or the person's parents or ancestors before their arrival in the United States. People who identify their origin as Hispanic or Latino may be of any race." According to the standard definitions, "Hispanic" refers to origin, not language. --174.125.74.197 (talk) 21:04, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  First Hispanic MVP? 

message: Well, since the additional week requested was not sufficient and due to the fact that the edited version that is in my PC is still, in my opinion, quite inferior to the original GA version, I think that we should revert to a date where the article was at least remotely GAish. I have checked all of the new content and it is, excluding a few lines, mostly redundant. The original structure was also disrupted by this new content, in the process breaking the prose's flow. It is better to identify the new material and bring it here for discussion, filtering it before being included again. - Caribbean~H.Q. 00:36, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: That being said, if most of these issues were product of the work of a single user (as stated above), the issue should have been discussed at WikiProject Baseball before going for a GAR. Any experienced user would have noticed the tone problems and a consensus would have been reached regarding the content's inclusion. - Caribbean~H.Q. 00:49, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Reverting to the same date the article became a GA is certainly a possibility. There was ample time for this to be discussed once GAR came about. However, there are editors who feel the additions to the article have been good but not necessarily the way in which they've been added. So I suppose it's up to the community at-large to determine if the additions are worthy of keeping and editors being bold and working to improve the newly-added content, or decide it's all trivial and redundant and not of much value and should simply be deleted. Zepppep (talk) 03:03, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Even more prose has been added. It appears, by what the editor is adding, that if it has been written down in a book or periodical, he has free rein to include it in a Wiki article. I don't think it's intentional; I think he simply doesn't get it. Here's a short example of the latest tone (the editor's words): "But of all those present at Wrigley that day, it was Clemente himself who would offer by far the most educated guess as to its destination." I did some tightening over the last couple days of the lede and a tagged section, and now the article is being "expanded" again, as the editor called it in the explanation line. AuthorAuthor (talk) 17:49, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: So are you in support of reverting to the version the article was in at the time of GA? Zepppep (talk) 23:17, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

text: Issues with the tone of this article are popping up again. Also, at 110k and counting, I am starting to have concerns per Wikipedia:Article size. The copious footnotes are not needed. Additionally, footnotes should should WP:NPOV. The long quotes embedded with the references is also becoming a bit overdone. Typically only potentially controversial statements or other text would need to be quoted in the ref; otherwise, that's precisely what the reference section is for. If folks doubt, they can easily go and find (in some cases, click) the source. The first sentence of the 2nd footnote (re: Gehrig) is terribly confusing. NPOV concerns include: "The father of sabremetrics himself...", "we can add to these the many victims of and/or witnesses to Clemente's tape-measure home runs," and others. Additionally, contractions continue to find their way into the article. As many times as an editor has been told contractions are not to be used per WP:MOS, and as many times as they make it in, I have serious WP:OR concerns, or perhaps even WP:Plagiarism. Zepppep (talk) 23:31, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I haven't given this article a full read recently, but I noticed DavidESpeed has been doing some editing recently. Are his contributions the ones that are worrisome? – Muboshgu (talk) 23:36, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

text: Holy shit those footnotes are completely out of hand. If it is DavidESpeed's doing, I think we should ask him to stop editing this article. Also, we could bring this to the attention of WP:BASEBALL so the group is aware of what's been happening here. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:40, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it is DavidESpeed doing it. And yes, Zepppep, I am in spport of reverting the version to when it became a GA. Enough is enough. You'd think by the growling length of Roberto Clemente's Wiki article that he was king of Puerto Rico instead of a Puerto Rican ballplayer. AuthorAuthor (talk) 23:45, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: We gotta get him to stop. As far as going all the way back to it's GA version, [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Roberto_Clemente&oldid=183345323 this one (never mind the deleted templates), that version is almost five years old. I think we should find the final version before DavidESpeed's first edit and go back to that. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:21, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

text: If an editor wants to expand an article, even one that's at GA status, we all know they're more than free to do so. Editors who edit, however, without adhering to such strong policies as WP:NPOV risk their edits being reverted. I am OK with a rollback if that's what the passers-by also concur with. I say we give this 7 days, similar to how a GAR would go down. In the mean time, the editor (and editors) who made edits in violation of NPOV will have ample time to clean up their edits, as well as defend their edits or future of this article should they decide to do so. (And notice it's not just NPOV concerns here, but also significant article length, reference and footnote sections cleanup, etc.). Zepppep (talk) 08:52, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: And actually I put up the NPOV maintenance tag 2 months ago or so, so editors have had more than enough time to address issues. Zepppep (talk) 08:53, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

text: Wikipedia is not a memorial. If Jane Speed isn't notable, the page should be taken to AfD. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:05, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: There is one short article from 1946 about a script she sold; other refs are scanned copies of her birth and marriage certificates and other family documents. One other article is about her suing an estate in the 1980s. Appears to not meet notability. However, DavidESpeed complained a while back about my clean-up edits to Zepppep, so I won't be taking it to AfD. AuthorAuthor (talk) 02:28, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I would probably recommend taking discussions about another article to that article's talk page. And yes, AuthorAuthor, the editor has complained about you but I don't see that from preventing you from taking an article to AfD. We need to use policies, standards, and consensus to help make decisions, not whether a fellow editor may hold a grudge against you (or any other editor) or not. There are lots of admins who have their fair share of those who may not be in their camp; another admin isn't going to care much unless that admin was acting outside the line or being terribly unreasonable. Also, roughly 24 hrs ago I took the decision whether to revert this article to a state it was in when it was at GA status to WPro Baseball. We'll see if that garners any other opinions. Zepppep (talk) 03:25, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Well said. I'll take the issue to that talk page. I appreciate your input. AuthorAuthor (talk) 04:02, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Reverting to a stable revivision

message: Clemente is an established 12-time NL All-Star, 12 teams for 12 seasons (15 games) not a "15-time All-Star" on 15 teams. Why hasn't anyone corrected this?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by YahwehSaves (talk • contribs) 07:50, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: 12-time All-Star

message: I was an avid baseball fan through Roberto's entire career.  I listened on radio and watched on television.  I never heard Roberto Clemente referred to as "Bob" or "Robert." It was always "Roberto."  I was unaware anyone may have called him anything else, until reading this section.  This sounds like a modern day "political correctness" angle or agenda.  It holds no purpose or relevance and should be deleted.  I vaguely recall hearing "Bobby" once, and thinking the announcer was a red neck or was trying to be cute120.29.72.64 (talk) 08:04, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for noticing and for raising teh point. I removed the claim as it fails WP:V policy. Pointing to a Wikipedia sports magiazine article is not valid sourcing as there is no way to verify the claim. IAE, we don't generalize based on a single claim from a single (alleged) sports writer. Mercy11 (talk) 14:52, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anglicization of Name 

message: This subject is under discussion at . Please go THERE if you wish to join the discussion. Mercy11 (talk) 15:10, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Edits by WikiSoldier86 seeking to specify "U.S." after place of birth

message: No body was ever found. It is presumed he died December 31,1972.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:D:A500:5A:C541:FE51:D462:E3EC (talk) 05:40, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Presumed died on New years Eve

message: I looked at the info box photograph of Roberto Clemente and made a few observations. He doesn't look like a baseball player. Second, the photo looks like a police mug shot. In my opinion  this article deserves a better picture of Roberto Clemente.
Anthony22 (talk) 01:27, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Point taken, but I think there is an issue that complicates things. For people who have died, we can usually find a non-free photo and use it under fair use if no free alternative can be located or created. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here: The photo in the infobox is in the public domain. Does the existence of this public domain image preclude us from adding a non-free baseball image under fair use? EricEnfermero (Talk) 01:55, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Info box could use a better photograph 

message: It seems to me that the paragraph concerning "Canonization" is not properly worded and does not represent the facts correctly:
As far as I understand the various citations it is mainly Rossi himself who is campaigning for Clemente's canonization, not "several people".
But then there is also a problem with the cited articles. Despite what the various newspapers wrote, there has not been any support for the idea of Clemente's canonization from the Pope. There has only been a letter from an Undersecretary of the Congregation for the Causes of Saints telling Rossi the correct procedure for his cause. --ChoG (talk) 12:51, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Canonization 

message: Strange that he spent six years in the marines and only got to PFC, paygrade E2. People usually get to E5 by then.2600:8805:5800:F500:9C9D:6AB3:CBF8:A317 (talk) 00:43, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Marines 

message: This newspaper says Clemente's birthday is August 19th, but this book, and this online biography say his birthday is August 18th. How do we know which is correct?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Crabycowman123 (talk • contribs) 23:05, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Birth Date Source Conflict 

message: 45.62.178.107 (talk) 14:00, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the  template. Puerto Rico is an unincorporated US territory, making this more complicated.  Please stop shouting and find consensus for this edit. LittlePuppers (talk) 22:40, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 12 October 2018 

message: None of the cited sources clearly state the actual date of her death. All that is actually stated is that her death was announced on Saturday/November 16, 2019.
*The ESPN cite states:
::"MLB and the Pittsburgh Pirates announced her death on Saturday."
*This CBS local (Pgh) TV station cite, dated November 16 2019 states:
::"Vera Clemente, the widow of Pirates’ legend Roberto Clemente, has died at age 78."
*Jason Mackey (KDKA Sports) tweeted (with a time-stamp of 6:50 pm November 16 2019):
::"According to reports out of Puerto Rico, Vera Clemente, Roberto's widow, has passed away. On Nov. 1 the Pirates announced she had been hospitalized and was in "delicate health." "
*And, yes, even though the Pgh CBS affiliate cite (time/date-stamp 4:44pm November 18th) states:
::"Vera Clemente died at age 78 on Saturday."
*the story they link to - to back up that claim - is their very own story which does not state the date of death as being on Saturday but instead only states 
::"Vera Clemente, the widow of Pirates’ legend Roberto Clemente, has died at age 78."
She could have died on Friday. Or maybe Saturday. We don't know. All the sources I have seen state the date that her death was announced, not the actual date or day that Vera Clemente died. I think we should be precise according to the cited sources, that's all. But let's discuss. Shearonink (talk) 18:37, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay. You're right. I should have been more careful on that source addition. I've replaced it with the NYT obit. The New York Times states she died on Saturday, November 16. See here. --The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 18:46, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: That's fine. Thanks for finding a better source. Probably to really nail the date down I would have to delve into the Puerto Rican sources that Jason Mackey alludes to....but the New York Times will do ;). Cheers, Shearonink (talk) 21:24, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent edits regarding Vera Clemente's date of death 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
* 
Participate in the deletion discussion at the . —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:24, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion