Talk:Kipper

message: "Kipper's for breakfast" is a stereotypical British saying that I can off the top of my head remember mention by both Super Tram (Breakfast in America), Bart Simpson (Bart of Darkness episode) and I know there are more, just can't think of any. Perhaps someone else can come up with more. Should it have it's own cultural reference section? I'm not an editor, just a point-it-out-'er Fadedroots (talk) 18:06, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: "Smoke me a Kipper for breakfast" is a catch phrase of  Dave Lister --Thefrood talk 23:11, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The precise sentence is "Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast."  said by Ace Rimmer, not Dave Lister, in the episode "Dimension Jump". MidlandLinda (talk) 20:00, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kippers IS a cultural word 

message: I'm not entirely sure of the Danish origin of Kippen but believe it to be accurate.
Stbalbach 09:12, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  kippen 

message: The origin of kippers is Old English. Old English dates back a thousand years or more. This is established by the 1911 Encylopedia Brittanica entry for kipper (see google, the "k" volume has not been made avilable yet to Wikipedia as of this writing). Since kipper is pre-historic and there is no definitive origin story on record, there is probably more than one kipper origin legend in the world, and they would all be very local in flavour, perhaps helping the merchant or town who created the legend. 
The main body of the kipper article should not be clutterd up with all these local legend refrences.. it is confusing and inaccurate. Scholaraly research shows that "kipper" has been around for a long time dateing back a thousand years or more. The legend should either be clearly marked as "false", or it should be moved to a seperate "legends" article. One or the other. I have tried but keep getting my changes set back. Have fun.
:But actually in its present form, thanks to the additions you have made and the work of other editors, it's pretty good! You get the amusing local legend bit and the rebuttal giving dates and sources, so I think it's the best of both worlds. Thanks and well done. --82.35.17.203 18:53, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kipper Legends 

message: The article states in at least two places that spawning fish are not edible unless kippered.  We here in the Pacific Northwest love to eat many species of fish (mainly the Pacific salmon species) caught on their way to spawn.  While salmon certainly can be smoked and/or kippered, it is most commonly eaten without such preservation.  Perhaps the article could specify if there are indeed other species which must be kippered in order to be palatable. -- BlueCanoe 01:27, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's been over two years since I wrote this. I remember my source said it, but I don't remember my source (ie. inline citations are a good thing, even for your own future reference). I thought it was unusual also, I had never heard that before. Perhaps what they meant was, because spawning fish are caught in large numbers in a short period of time they need to be preserved so they remain editable. I suspect that is what is meant here (this is certainly true for indigenous people in the Pacific west coast no?). I will change it. -- Stbalbach 15:53, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edibility of spawning fish 

message: Wetman, do you have a source for this (bold part):
:The Old English origin of the word has various parallels referring to the process of stripping away the fishes' viscera, such as Icelandic kippa which means "to pull, snatch" and the Danish word kippen which means "to seize, to snatch".
It goes on to say:
:Similarly, the English kipe denotes a basket used to catch fish. 
Wouldn't it make more sense that "to pull, snatch" is the process of catching the fish with a basket during spawning periods when they are schooled up in masses, such as what the English word suggests? I've cleaned many a fish in my day, and never thought of it as pulling or snatching. I could be wrong, and since it seems to contrast with the English kipe definition, I was hoping you could provide a source for the fish cleaning station definition. -- Stbalbach 04:12, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, the scraping action simply seemed intuitive to me. Revert my insertion id it's astray. --Wetman 04:26, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  pull/snatch the viscera? 

message: According to this excellent article  there are a number of variants on the salted and smoked fish, "the differences lie in the type, combination and duration of the processes." It lists kipper, Yarmouth bloater, buckling, red herring and whitebait. I'm not sure it would make sense to have a separate article for each, would it make sense to have a single article called smoked salted fish or cured fish? -- Stbalbach 02:45, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Found fish curing, smoked fish, salt-cured meat, curing (food preservation), smoking (cooking technique) - probably others.  --Stbalbach 12:06, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Salted and smoked fish 

message: Please see, http://www.fishbase.org/Glossary/Glossary.cfm?TermEnglish=cold%20smoked, just as one example of many places where it is made clear that cold-smoked fish like kippers have to be cooked before being eaten. Perhaps Stbalbach is not familiar with cokking and kitchen techniques. "Kipper snacks" are defined in US food safety law as being pre-cooked so that the consumer can eat them "as is." The distinction is very real, and legal.24.168.4.15 23:10, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, according to out very own Smoking (cooking technique) article, lox is cold smoked. I've personally eaten un-cooked cold smoked herring (it was for supper!). Maybe there is some recent English law about it for food safety reasons, but that's a separate issue, the world is bigger than just the UK and the US, people have been eating uncooked cold smoked fish since time immortal.  As for breakfast, again, people do things in lots of ways, my Korean friends family eat hamburgers for breakfast, and I'm sure 300 years ago peasants didn't worry about eating fish for breakfast when that was all they had to eat anyway. What your describing is a very British, very recent cultural norm. -- Stbalbach 01:23, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please stop reverting the edits. Place your suitable sources for the information concerned below this line and settle to a resolution. Also be aware of the 3RR rule. Thank you.--KZTalk• Contribs 22:53, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I've reverted back to your version of the edits, so please regain your patience. I asked Stbalbach to keep it this way until this dispute is over. You have not been treated as a "incompetent leper", as stated, but I apologize in advance if you feel that you have been. --KZTalk• Contribs 00:11, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Well it doesn't really matter now because it isn't really a dispute anymore. The ip has recently quit Wikipedia. --KZTalk• Contribs 07:06, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  My edits 

message: *Please see, http://www.fishbase.org/Glossary/Glossary.cfm?TermEnglish=cold%20smoked, just as one example of many places where it is made clear that cold-smoked fish like kippers have to be cooked before being eaten. Perhaps Stbalbach is not familiar with cokking and kitchen techniques. "Kipper snacks" are defined in US food safety law as being pre-cooked so that the consumer can eat them "as is." The distinction is very real, and legal.24.168.4.15 23:10, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well it doesn't really matter now because it isn't really a dispute anymore. The ip has recently quit Wikipedia. --KZTalk• Contribs 07:06, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Evidence by [[User:24.168.4.15]]

message: Is this for real? The article on red herring makes no mention of this definition of red herring:
"A red herring is a whole unsplit fish. Red herring can be served cold, sliced thinly across the body with new bread and butter or a salad as a starter."
130.119.248.12 14:25, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Red herrings?

message: I support the merge with Kipper season. Brandonrush (talk) 16:27, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As there were no objections, I carried out this merge (really more of a redirect - there was no content in the other article which wasn't already in this one). Terraxos (talk) 15:28, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge

message: I remeoved the "The John West brand of canned kipper fillets is a commonly found item in stores or supermarket sections devoted to imported British foodstuffs." because it is nothing more than an ad.  Kipper smacks of various brands are available at most US supermakets in the canned fish section and British foods in the British food section. 
71.233.97.113 (talk) 20:51, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: ad

message: Under Origin, it says:
:The exact origin of kippers is unknown, though fish have been slit, gutted and smoked since time immemorial.
While this is lovely, poetic, and most likely accurate, the citation provided doesn't really support "time immemorial," since the cite references Lewis and Clark, which is 18th century. Also, it doesn't actually provide a REFERENCE, just says that L&C saw Native Americans smoking salmon, without saying how we know they saw it. --DrGaellon (talk | contribs) 13:08, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: "Time immemorial"

message: Supermarkets (er, co-op, tesco ..) have recently taken to selling a disgusting boil-in the-bag product, usually called "kipper fillets" that bears little resemblance to the real thing. 
When you read deep into the label, it apparently contains "responsibly sourced" herring (95%), salt and a little butter (2.5%), an unspecified 2.5%. and the lurid yellow colour comes from annatto, a known allergen. I shall have to  undertake further research to find out what further travesties have been committed in the name of profits.
Is there any precedence for these things being legally presented as kippers? Or is the term un-protected, so you can sell any rubbish and call it that?
A kipper by any other name....  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Memethuzla (talk • contribs) 13:10, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Nothing recent about this, if I recollect correctly  supermarkets were selling the travesty that  are boil in the bag kippers when I was a kid in the 1970's  --Thefrood talk 23:15, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  When is a kipper not a kipper? 

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thread_title: File:Kippered Herring can190g Appel.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

message: There is a degree of overlap between this article and Orange kipper, so I'm wondering if Orange kipper should be merged into this article.  --Thefrood talk 15:05, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Support merge, due to significant article overlap. JoeSperrazza (talk) 19:23, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

text: Support merge --Epipelagic (talk) 21:44, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

text: Support With a redirect from Orange kipper Mcewan (talk) 15:27, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal: [[Orange kipper]] 

message: The section on Colouring has a quote that looks like vandalism to me. Is this the actual quote or did someone just make the quote look stupid as an act of vandalism? Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 08:05, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Þou knowest not Middel Englissh? It is writyng moste propre. Þer be no maner or werke of meschief in þatt whych is wrote.  Ian.thomson (talk) 05:44, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: You mean this is just a Middle English quote? Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 06:13, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: It is a relevant quote in Middle English, yes. Ian.thomson (talk) 06:45, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow, did not notice until discussion. This is why discussions are so valuable. They prevent edit-wars and content disputes. Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 09:06, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm mostly glad that this worked out, because a side of me I rarely allow anywhere near Wikipedia was ready to edit war over the quote using only Middle English edit summaries and discussion.  Ian.thomson (talk) 09:27, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  "He eteþ no ffyssh But heryng red" 

message: The article reads, "Kippers produced in the Isle of Man are exported around the world.[13] Thousands are produced annually in the town of Peel ..."
OK. Thousands of tons (or tonnes)? Of fish? Of cans? Of kilograms? Of barrels? I have no idea what this sentence means.
IAmNitpicking (talk) 13:23, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Peel produces thousands of somethings 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Have modified the Old English etymology; /k/ is not a letter in old English; kipian is not in the corpus. 121.209.139.246 (talk) 06:03, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Old English 

message: the article talks about "the preservation of surplus fish": before the advent of refrigeration, the vast bulk of fish caught were cured. If you seined a batch of fish today and wanted to eat them next week, they needed to be preserved. fishing boats frequently salted them right away before returning to port. So, technically sure, the fish were "surplus", but that was the goal, to catch surplus fish, just as you harvest surplus vegetables during harvest season, i.e. it was just catching fish, no surplus involved 2603:8001:D3F0:87E0:0:0:0:1DF6 (talk) 10:14, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  preservation of "surplus" fish