Talk:Soprano crime family

message: ...not the Soprano family. Johnny Sack, and later Phil Leotardo, became bosses of the Lupertazzi family, which remains the "Lupertazzi" family. The DiMeo family is named for it's living and imprisoned boss - not after Jackie Aprile, or later, Junior or Tony. It is referred in the show as the "DiMeo family" as well. Jericho735 (talk) 02:35, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: It's the DiMeo family...

message: *I have made a Soprano Crime family tree guide that covers the 6 seasons. It shows the progressions of rank etc. I have used info from mainly this wiki page.
http://www.utopiaplanitia.info/sopranos/index.html - My Sopranos family tree
However with all the discussion, im not sure if it is 100% accurate. Can you check it out. 
-Jimeee.
*When was Patsy Parisi moved over to the the Curto Crew?Hendo313 14:40, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: General discussion

message: *Speaking of, does anyone really know if Jason Molinaro is made? Also, I switched Burt Gervasi over to the Gualtieri crew, being as he was making pickups with Patsy. I think it was only assumed he was in the Gervasi crew because his cousin is the Capo.
**I've never seen any evidence that he is a made man so I moved him down to associate. Fair enough about the Burt Gervasi move. --Opark 77 00:24, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Character Questions

message: [With Curto dead, isn't it why Christopher has been promoted to Capo? Why Paulie isn't Capo of his crew anymore? What's the difference between Underboss and Consigliere?]
Chris was moved up to Capo in between Seasons 5 and 6.  Paulie is underboss, which (I believe) is kind of like the Captain of the Captains.  Consigliere is the Boss's advisor.  The Boss runs the entire family and everyone kicks up and answers to him.
before paulie was promoted who was the underboss?
There wasn't one.
Silvio pretty much preformed the function of Underboss, but was never given the official title.
Already established as Consigliere, it was understood that Silvio was #2 behind Tony, so like I said before, he was Underboss without the title.
Also, as had been established in season 4 with Tony telling Christopher that he would be giving orders through him, Tony is looking for buffers between him and the rest of the crew to avoid racketeering charges.  
So, by making Paulie the official Underboss, it provides another layer of insulation between Tony and the rest of the crew.
:Tony remained capo of his crew following his decision to place Uncle Junior at the head of the family in season 1. Junior's original administration consisted of Mikey Palmice as Consigliere and Beppy Sasso as underboss until the episode "I Dream of Jeannie Cusamano" when Mikey was killed and Junior and Beppy arrested. Tony stepped up to act as boss after Junior's arrest - he was given the title "Street Boss" by the FBI while Junior was under house arrest. Tony had really already been acting as boss before this with the other capos agreement. Tony essentially filled the role of underboss from the episode "Big Girls, Don't Cry" when he promoted Paulie to act as capo of the crew in all but name and also placed Silvio above the other crew members - Junior remained the official boss at this time. Later when paulie was in prison Chris was made acting capo of the crew - suggesting that Paulie was officially capo by then. Chris refers to himself as a captain in the episode Members Only when he orders Gene to perform a hit - concrete evidence that he had moved up. 
:Junior's slow decline due to depression and dementia meant that Tony assumed more and more of the roll of boss of the family. I assume that once Junior was too far gone to be relied upon Tony became official, installed Paulie as underboss and promoted Chris to capo but this is not supported by any evidence. Chris' position at the head of Paulie's crew is supported by the same associates that were in Paulie's crew now reporting to Chris i.e. Benny Fazio.--Opark 77 23:55, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Apeshade, read this and shut up:
http://www.hbo.com/sopranos/cast/character/tony_soprano.shtml
MrBlondNYC 05:10, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Look at Apeshade's talk page or contributions list and you'll see why I spoke to him that way. He has done nothing but insult and curse at people. I stooped to his level and I shouldn't have. But I have explained in detail in a section below why Paulie is the de facto underboss. MrBlondNYC 01:28, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Underboss/Consigliere

message: As far as I know, Christopher was made Acting Capo of (Paulie) Gaultieri's crew in Season 5, and Tony was considering making Christopher his Underboss. 
Uncle Junior is not the Underboss, but infact the Official Acting Boss of the Family. Tony is the Street Boss/ Underboss officially, even though we know he is the de facto boss.
In season 6 it is likely Paulie will become Tony's Underboss and Uncle Junior is largely inactive due to his illness, and Christopher will become the Official Capo of Paulie's crew.
Raymond Curto's death has nothing to do with the promotion of christopher to acting Capo. Christopher is a member of the Gaultieri (ex-soprano) crew, not the Curto crew.
Paulie is not Capo of his crew, because he was promoted to underboss, im guessing, in season 6. The underboss does not have a crew usually, but is the bridge between the boss and his Capo's.
RE: Underboss - There was infact an Underboss, it officially was Tony, even though he had the actual control. Silvio didnt perform the duties of the underboss, he was the Consigliere (advisor) for Tony, which is why he always is asked by Tony for guidance. Consigliere is usually considered the No.3 in the family (behind the boss and underboss).
*** New Question 6/6/07 ***
*** How do you know Paulie is Underboss? When or what episode shows this? (Seems like earlier this seesion Tony was thinking of killing because he talked too much.) If he is, in fact, Underboss, then why did Phil order top management (i.e, Tony, Sil and Bobby) 'decapitated'? Why was Paulie explicitly spared? When did Bobby get placed as underboss (if in fact this is what happened)? Or why was he targeted to be 'clipped'? Was the friction between Paulie and Bobby in the most recent episode evident of a transfer of the number 2 seat? *** —Preceding unsigned comment added by  (talk • contribs) 
:Here's what people need to remember: 
#The show was off the air for two years (2004-2006). It was during that time that Chris became Capo of Paulie's old crew and Paulie was bumped up. It didn't happen in an episode. When the sixth season started, they were already in their new positions.
#It is clear that Tony does not want Paulie to take his place. But Chris took over Paulie's crew and Paulie is the senior member of the Family. He's not a Capo anymore and he sure as hell didn't get demoted down to Soldier so Paulie is basically Underboss by default. 
#According to the official site Paulie is Underboss: http://www.hbo.com/sopranos/cast/character/tony_soprano.shtml
As to why Bobby was hit instead of Paulie, it's possible that will be explained in "Made in America". But Tony made it clear that he would prefer Bobby to take his place when they were on the boat in "Soprano Home Movies". Bobby really earned Tony's respect after that when he beat Tony up and killed his first guy. Bobby really settled into his role as Tony's protege. But he was still the Capo of his own crew and not officially Underboss yet. Phil's Family assumed Bobby was Underboss because he was at all the meetings ("We think Bobby Bacala"). This could be the reason for the friction between Paulie and Bobby and why Tony contemplated killing Paulie. MrBlondNYC 04:28, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If Paulie was not Underboss than that leaves him unaccounted for from 2005-2007. According to the article, he just disappeared for two years and came back as Capo in the final episode. If not Underboss I can't figure out what he was supposed to be. Anyone else? MrBlondNYC 20:36, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  DiMeo Leadership 

message: It is mentioned that in 2002, when Junior Soprano is arrested on RICO charges, Bobby 'Bacala' is made 'Deputy Capo' of Junior Soprano's crew.
But when Junior is arrested he is Acting boss, therefore does not have a crew. Philly 'spoons' Parisi takes over Junior's crew. When is it mentioned Bacala is Deputy Capo?
::Episode 401 "For All Debts Public and Private is where it is first mentioned. Sfufan2005 23:45, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Sfufan, Bobby was made acting capo in episode 401. He is still not officially capo in season six as per Janice Sopranos comments. --Opark 77 00:34, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bobby Bacala 

message: I remember them referring to DiMeo as the "old man", but I really don't think this is a nickname.  I'm taking out the reference to "Old Man" DiMeo, since it makes it sound like a nickname.  Ned Wilbury 18:54, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Old man" 

message: In favour of Benny being a soldier
1.  He was an associate in season 5.  It is mentioned by Silvio in the episode "Luxury Lounge" that the books haven't been opened in years, meaning Benny couldn't have been made in between seasons 5 and 6.
2. Artie could not have beat the hell out of Benny without any punishment, even if he's Tony's friend.  You don't touch a made man, especially if you're a civilian.
:People who insist that Artie could've hitten a made man and gotten away with it because he's Tony's friend are completely forgetting that Tony punched Ralph and that caused a lot of controversy.  Even Silvio scolded Tony about it.  If Tony Soprano, the BOSS of the Family, could get into some hot water for hitting a made man, then Artie Bucco would have been a dead man.  Made men CANNOT be touched, not even by the Boss of the Family.
3. They have never said on the show that Benny is made.
:I completely agree. I think it was reasonable to assume he had been made up until the luxury lounge episode, which then gave us convincing evidence he was not. Perhaps this discussion would be better placed on the Benny Fazio page as it appears to be ongoing and might be quite long. I think the best way to solve the debate would be to find a secondary source that refers to Benny as either soldier or associate - as the primary source, the show, is open to variable interpretation. -Opark77
Against Benny being a soldier:
Updated
the reasons why? according to the recent episode Luxury Lounge read below.( and keep in mind this is just a logical observation)
1- the boss wouldnt have a sit down with an associate.the capo Chrissy( when he got back) or sil would have talked to benny instead
the Boss only directly talks to made men especially talking about whacking someone!Tony is a fraid of rats and distances himself from saying anything in front of an associate.
2- becuase he talked to tony about clipping artie(an associate would never say that to the boss especially a friend of the boss)
and an associate would never dare talk openly about clipping a friend of the boss.so hes must be made becuase benny was told the rules of being a made guy(that he can mess with any civilian and no civilian can mess with HIM)
:But Artie DID mess with him.  More than that, he sent him to the hospital.  And Tony was scolding Benny, not sympathizing with him.  That alone should be ample evidence that Benny isn't made.  If Benny was made, they would've shown a scene of Tony scolding Artie, among other things.  
::You completely shot to death your argument when you said "benny must be made...no civilian can mess with HIM".  Artie completely beat the living hell out of him without ANY punishment.  Face facts, Benny is not a made man.
3- benny - being a made guy  shouldnt have asked TONY for persmission  to whack artie
a connected guy wouldnt do that. he would go through his made guy/capo friend and that made guy friend would in turn ask the boss.there is a chain of command
            
:This argument favors those who don't believe Benny is a soldier. 
4-if benny was an associate he wouldnt dare have burned arties hand after artie made the martina comment around bennys family -
only a made guy could have gotten away with that after him being told to stay away from artie
if benny was just an associate he would be walking on eggshells -apologizing to artie
:The attack on Artie wasn't planned, it was the spur of the moment thing because he was pissed at the Martina crack.  If he was a made guy, he wouldn't have needed to wait until Artie insulted him.  Hell, he wouldn't even have been ordered to make the peace with Artie.  Artie would've been the one that had to reach out to Benny
5- benny could have been clipped if he was an associate for messing with vesuvios in the first place
vesuvios could close down
 
:He wouldn't have gotten clipped, but he would have gotten a stern talking to, which is exactly what happened.
6 -artie is tonys longest living friend.
tony is the boss.
the family and friends of a mob boss are UNTOUCHABLE
even ralphie knew not to mess with artie 2 seasons ago by refusing to loan him money
can that made guy whack carmela??i dont think so.and shes not made.
:The Family of a made man is untouchable.  Friends aren't.  Davey Scatino, while not as close to Tony as Artie, wasn't considered untouchable.
7. hes dressing alot nicer. like a made guy similar to the way chrissy was dressing when he first got made
:Weak argument.  There are a lot of real life wannabes who dress nice and that doesn't make them mobsters.
8. they never once said he WASNT a soldier either.
9. with the capo gone, who else is going to step up but benny-do associates step up for a capo? 
:This should have been Patsy - a made guy with seniority in the crew. Benny just delivered a kick up - he may not have been acting as capo in Chris' absence just had some increased responsibility. -Opark77
10, artie could have beaten up benny even if it was a made guy. benny was wrong for ruining tonys best friends restaurant. and besides tony said artie was going to apologize 
:No he couldn't have.  One of the rules is that Made Men cannot be touched, even by other made men.  Remember the stink that was made when Ralph got punched by Tony.  Even Silvio scolded Tony for that, and Tony is the Boss.  If TONY SOPRANO hitting a made man caused controversy, then Artie Bucco, who isn't even connected, would be a dead man.
11. Sil said" its been a while since we opened the books'.  Benny could have been made in that episode and they just didnt say it.and benny could be made and it was just a plot hole. but everything else i said made me come to the conclusion that hes made.
benny could have been made between seasons 5 and 6 . no way to know and the seasons are 2 years apart0tony stated a few episodes back its 2006 regarding vito being gay and all- o keeping on continuity with the last season it has to be 2 years since tony B got whacked)
12. Benny was chrissys connected guy friend most of the series after chrissy became made. Now that Chrissy is a capo, its logical that he would propose Benny for membership.-
: benny knew that artie grew up with tony and yet he has a credit card scam at vesuvios. as i said,  he almost destroyed tonys best friends restaurant business.pretty insubordinate considering benny knew long ago how close artie and tony were with each other.did it ever occur to benny in all this time that tony doesnt do anything illegal in arties restaurant? mattvangogh
13. I just dont see how Benny could possibly have been made in those episodes, look at the way the made guys are treated by the associates in the episode where tony beat up Perry, benny was still clearly just an associate.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Myron Mumbles (talk • contribs) 07:27, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Benny Fazio soldier debate

message: According to the website "http://people.howstuffworks.com/mafia2.htm","An associate is simply someone who works with the mob, including anyone from a burglar or drug dealer to a lawyer, investment banker, police officer or politician." 
So I'm wondering, should Assemblyman Zellman, Hal Melvoin (Junior's lawyer), Vin Makazian, Neil Mink (Tony's lawyer), and others who have worked for Tony Soprano be included in the "Unofficial Associates" section?
:Having re-read your question more carefully I actually agree, go ahead and list them here if you like --Opark 77 23:55, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Assemblyman Zellman 

message: Hillel is Shlomo Teittleman's son as mentioned in episode 1.3. See http://www.hbo.com/sopranos/music/episode72.shtml (which also provided the name of the motel).
*Thanks for this. I continually get Ariel and Hillel confused - I've now tidied up the character profiles a little and added Flyaway Motel. --Opark 77 15:35, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hillel Teittleman 

message: Former Junior Soprano soldiers Gigi Cestone and Pasquale "Patsy" Parisi defected over to the Soprano crew.
Gigi Cestone was never in the Junior Soprano crew,although he was seen with Junior on one occasion. He was in what was the Aprile crew, and was capo, preceeding Ralph Cifaretto. Gigi regularly associated with Silvio, Tony and christopher etc, but was never part of their crew.
* I beg to differ. As I saw it - in a flashback in "To Save Us All From Satans Power" Gigi was shown with Junior establishing him in the crew in 1995. Gigi killed capo Philly "Spoons" Parisi in 2000 on orders from Tony Soprano and moved over to the Soprano crew from Junior's crew. He was never shown with the Aprile crew under Richie Aprile in S2 but regularly appeared with the Soprano crew. When Richie died Gigi got his spot as Aprile crew capo which he held until his death.--Opark 77 23:11, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gigi Cestone 

message: Have they ever mentioned the name "DiMeo Crime Family" on the show?
:Not as far as I know. But we need a specific monicker to distinguish them from other mafia organizations in order to write about them so thats what we use. --Opark 77 10:08, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They do, in the first season episode "The Legend of Tennessee Moltisanti."  In a news report they mention that Jackie Aprile was made acting boss of the DiMeo family.  Then a few seconds later they call it the "Soprano family." RabidGreenMonkey 20:39, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In the TV show family is referred to as the "Soprano Crime Family" by the feds, which is also used by the semi-canonical "FBI Files" section of the official Sopranos site on HBO: .  Should we consider moving this article to Soprano crime family?  --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 18:26, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

text: The name is in accordance with the naming of Mafia Families. The Five Families maintain the name of the Boss at the time of formation. For example, John Gotti was Boss of the Gambino crime family. It wouldn't be wrong to call it the "Gotti crime family". But officially it's still Gambino. But the real reason why they don't really refer to the "DiMeo crime family" on the show anymore is because David Chase got tired of working in mentions of Eckley DiMeo. So it was just easier to call it the "Soprano Crime Family". MrBlondNYC 04:56, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So, by Wikipedia naming conventions, shouldn't we use the official web-site name, as well as the name that everyone knows them by today? --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 19:25, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going to be bold and move it. --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 19:29, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I support the change. Since it's a fictional crime family anyway and it's better known as the Soprano family. MrBlondNYC 21:15, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Note that I also changed the capitalization of this page's title and others to conform to the Wikipedia Manual of Style. --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 21:54, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I understand. I only agree with the name change because it's a fictional family. In the show, the Feds and the news call it Soprano. If it was real, then the original Bosses name would the official name.  MrBlondNYC 03:57, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  the name DiMeo Crime Family 

message: Despite being Carlo's cousin once Burt is a made man he amkes collections in the North Ward with Patsy, I think this probably puts him in Patsy's crew. See discussion here.--Opark 77 09:27, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Burt Gervasi 

message: An IP editor recently deleted the associates from the Soprano crew. I'm not sure why as no edit summary was given and I've reinstated them. Also we assume associate rank until soldier is proven, see discussion here.--Opark 77 09:27, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Associates in Soprano crew 

message: Back when the Family Tree was on HBO's Sopranos web site, it said that Hesh was Jackie's Consigliere. Anyone know anything about this?
--Ant1238
*Are you sure it didn't say Advisor? Where did the crime family tree go, by the way? It was excellent! cun 20:08, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hesh Rabkin 

message: Under the section periods of unrest it says that Ralph and Tony co-own the racehorse. This is not the case, Ralph solely owns the horse and kicks some of his winnings up to Tony because A) Tony is the Boss and B) Tony gives a suggestion to the trainer on how to run the horse. I am removing this part from this section. Ragefather 20:46, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pie-O-My 

message: :Image:Richieaprile.PNG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Richieaprile.PNG

message: In Made in America, Tony says "the Cifaretto crew. It's like a Chinese fire drill." Since that what Tony calls maybe that was the official name of the crew. I wondered why it wasn't the "Spatafore crew" but maybe they don't even wanna say his name. Anyway, I think it should be added that it is was formerly called the Cifaretto and the Aprile crew and obviously will be the Gualtieri crew. MrBlondNYC 21:52, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Aprile crew or Cifaretto crew?

message: "The Barese crew is known for its large crew of made men," it says in the article. What source is this taken from? Why do we never see any of them? cun 00:04, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Barese crew and quantity of made men 

message: Could Tony Blundetto also be listed as an Associate of Little Carmine's crew on the Lupertazzi crime family page since he did a hit on behalf of Little Carmine and Angelo Garepe? This was before he rejoined the Soprano family. MrBlondNYC 19:27, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Tony B. also Lupertazzi Associate?

message: :Image:Tony blundetto.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot 11:14, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Tony blundetto.jpg

message: To add a list of bosses to this article which Shormi continually does, can be seen as damaging for the article for several reasons:
# We can get the same information in the rest of the article (especially the "Emeritus" part) - it is redundant.
# The list increases the length of the article considerably, which is damaging to flow and precision.
# The list contains controversial information (for instance that a board with Richie Aprile rules the Family in a short time) which is not backed up by references.
And furthermore, some edits by Shormi has been of a experimenting nature, for instance trying to insert a crime family tree with no luck. This indicates no real far-sighted plan from his/her side.
Does anyone have a say in this? -cun 22:12, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Some help here would be hot. Shormi still edits and does not participate in the discussion. What to do? -cun 08:35, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Now he has reverted again. Help! -cun 15:08, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

text: You should keep a more polite tone than that. You actually did revert when I wrote the sentence over and I wrote it to get some sort of aide from anyone who would join in on the debate. You never wrote anything before now, which I find weird. I'm not a lawyer, by the way. Feel free to contribute, but try to lead a debate against the arguments, not the person behind it -cun 15:00, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why a list of the bosses is redundant 

message: chris ha d to pay the hospital bill of little paulie that prove that yis made and most of the people that deal directlie whit tony are made or esle they woul not evan talk to him and remenber that in e cerw is suposse to have soldier not a caPO and 12 associante so i think you shouh change  a lot of associate to made man and they were hidding whit tony in made in america is there were only associate they would not have been ther protec the boss is the soldiers job
~You can tell those guys are NOT made just by watching how they are treated on the show. Do you think That eugene Pontecorvo Would have smashed a glass bottle over Little Paulies head and beaten the crap out of him if he was made?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Myron Mumbles (talk • contribs) 07:33, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  how come there only associate and no made man in the list 

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Sopranos feech.jpg

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Tony blundetto.jpg

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Richieaprile.PNG

message: :Image:Rusty Irish.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot (talk) 04:54, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Rusty Irish.jpg

message: It says there are 5 crews in the family, but there's actually 6.
#Soprano crew - Later ran by Paulie
#J. Soprano crew - Later ran by Bobby
#Aprile crew - Ran by Jackie, then Richie, then Ralphie, then Vito
#Gervasi crew - Ran by Carlo, formerly run by Jimmy Altieri 
#Barese crew - Ran by Larry Boy (and his cousin Albert)
#Curto crew - Ran by Ray
--Ted87 (talk) 19:03, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  5 or 6 crews? 

message: This may be obvious to fans of the genre but I thought the term should be explained. Capo is  short for a caporegime, a name given to a top ranking person of a family who deals in criminal activity, that is, the Mafia. A capo basically refers to the leader of a team of soldiers. The capo works as the intermediate between the Mafioso Boss and his crew. This helps prevent security breaches in the organisation as no activity can be traced back to the Boss. Initially, caporegime meant the chief of a family, mostly used in Sicily. The meaning however, has since changed and today denotes a member of high rank, as in a Captain. -Anon 98.92.188.62 (talk) 06:50, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Capo explained.