Talk:Health Management Associates (Arkansas company)

message: It has been a few months.  I have taken a fresh look at this article to look for POV.  In doing so, I have to keep in mind that this article is not alone.  There are many web pages that claim Clinton was directly involved in the HMA scandal.  If Clinton's involvement (or lack of involvement) were not mentioned in any way in this article, it would be a mistake.  On the other hand, if there was no claim that Clinton was involved and this article said he wasn't involved, it would be POV to bring his name up.  With that in mind, I am happy that the second half makes it clear that there are many websites that claim he is directly involved - which justifies this articles claim that there is no evidence to support the claim that he was directly involved.
If I were a new reader of the article and I did not read the second half, I could find it POV that Clinton's name is used in the first half.  It implies that he was involved somehow but doesn't explain how or why.  In the second half, it is explained that he personally signed the state's contract with HMA.  So, instead of deleting information, I will add that he signed the contract in the first half.  If it still reeks of POV, we can remove mention of him all together until the second half when we get into a debate with the "Clinton is Evil" websites. Kainaw 14:35, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: NPOV discussion Oct 2005

message: I'm challenging this article because the involved corporation doesn't even have an article anymore. I thought of PRODing the article, but I decided not to considering the age of the article, and the content of the article. Although the article is somewhat well composed, it seems to me that it is not appropriate to have an article about a scandal involving a company who doesn't even have it's own article anymore. It seems that it would be better to make an article about Health Management Associates and merge the information from this article there if possible. PCHS-NJROTC (Messages) 02:59, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The HMA article was deleted because of copyvio, not because it is not notable.  The deletion states that the article should be re-created (without copyvio).  If the HMA article was deleted because of a lack of notability, I would view your argument differently.  In my opinion, the entire notability of HMA is this scandal.  Therefore, it seems to me that the HMA article has no point other than to lead to this article.  But, it would be rather mean to redirect an honest company's page to a scandal from many years ago. -- kainaw™ 03:05, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

text: Another point - separate from above - is the reason for notability of this article.  The notability is created by the conspiracy theory pages (many of them) that claim Bill Clinton was behind the whole scandal.  I see this article is a very short synopsis of the verifiable facts.  If you google for "clinton blood scandal", you will find thousands of hits.  Hopefully one of them is this page, which I've tried to make non-POV. -- kainaw™ 03:14, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, but could this be merged into an article about the company that would include more information about the company as well as the details of this scandal, and if it can't, shouldn't we make an article (even if it's just a stub) so that people know what HMA is? I would personally compare having this article about the scandal (without having an article about HMA) to having an article about the Monica Lewinsky Scandal without having articles about Monica Lewinsky and Bill Clinton. How would person in the middle of China or somewhere know what HMA is? Wouldn't it be appropriate to add some details about what they do, where they're based, statistics, etc. so that people unfamiliar with HMA knows about the subject of the scandal? PCHS-NJROTC (Messages) 22:42, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

text: So basically, my idea is to move this to Health Management Associates and add more information about the history of the company etc, making an article introducing the pros and cons of the company to people. It'd be kind of like the Port Charlotte High School article that explains the history and statistics of the school as well as scandals with teachers being fired over sexual offenses. PCHS-NJROTC (Messages) 22:48, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That sounds fine.  Just redirect this title to Health Management Associates#Scandal. -- kainaw™ 16:47, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: There's still a lot of work to go, but with a little expansion in some other areas, it probably wouldn't be difficult to take this to a B if not a GA or FA. All we need to do is get as much information in other sections as we have in the scandal along with some pictures and GA will be easy. Right now, how ever, one could probably challenge the neutrality because we have so much information about the scandal and very little about anything else, which is why expansion is critical (and also why I haven't yet removed the NPOV tag). PCHS-NJROTC (Messages) 21:17, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV discussion May 2009 

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thread_title:  External links modified