Talk:Netherlands/Archive 1

message: I know that "the Dutch like to see themselves as a tolerant people", but does the rest of the world really know the Dutch to be tolerant? I am not even sure that a native speaker of English would have even thought of the term 'tolerant'. Instead, they would probably be wondering 'tolerant to what?'.--branko
:I find them tolerant except for my opinions and my housekeeping. They are polite about my housekeeping. :^)
::"the Dutch like to see themselves as a tolerant people" ... We do??? new to me ;) Maybe it's the Hollanders that think that way... lol -Kraftwerk-
::: It is a fact that The Netherlands is a progressive state:
The Netherlands is one of the fist, if not the first country that regulates by law gay marriage, abortion, and euthanasia.
The Netherlands is also famous for there tolerance to the use of soft drugs.
>The Dutch are not really tolerant in general, at least not more tolerant than the other countries around.
However, this only accounts for "cases" where someone's actions may involve other people, like wearing a burqa or making noise at night.
If someone commits a so called "victimless crime", such as using soft drugs, committing euthanasia, voluntary prostitution, etc.., Dutch people simply won't care. (and in most cases: cannot understand why people in other countries do).
I am dutch and I must say we used to be a more tolerant people many years ago. But in the last 10 years a lot has changed. More and more people get fed up with illegal aliens, terrorism and criminality. This happens probably in every country, but it is finaly effecting us also. -eurocanna-
:I would second that. Compared to the county I used to live in, I would not classify the Dutch as especially tolerant. The laws are pretty tolerant, the people less so. CjDMaX 00:40, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "The Dutch are known as a tolerant people."

message: <I>Should this not perhaps be on The Netherlands? 
Probably. 
Yes I think so. The term The Netherlands describes the historically grown unity of the Low Lands Holland, Zeeland, Friesland, Utrecht and other provinces. In Dutch the name has a singular form "Nederland', but in Englisch and French (Les Pays- Bas) the plural form. I suppose this stems from the the term "The Republic of the United Netherlands; in the 17th and 18th century the country was officially called that way.</I>
The front of the Dutch passport reads: "Koninkrijk der Nederlanden", clearly plural.<P>
:A kingdom (koninkrijk) is as archaic as the plurality in the name, so those fit together nicely. We've already gotten rid of the plural, I hope the queen will follow soon.
But every Dutchman I know talks about "Nederland".
----
The indepence given in the table is that of the HRE. Why is that independence chosen, and not that of French (Napoleonic) or German (Nazi) occupant? Admittedly, that first indepedence was more heroic than the latter two, as those two were given to us rather than that we fought for them, but that should not be a consideration for an encyclopedia.--branko
:This is a good point, but the case could be made that in both the 1795-1815 period and the 1940-1945 period, while a foreign power did for a time succeed in occupying the Netherlands, it was during wartime, and by the time the dust had settled, they were no longer occupying the Netherlands.  This does require looking at the French Revolution as a protracted period of civil and then international war in which the dust never really had a chance to settle, but that certainly is one way of looking at it. Shimmin 19:32, 26 Apr 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nederland v.s. (de) Nederlanden 

message: I have corrected an inaccuracy in the historical overview, as it wasn't Philip II who finally acceeded in the independence of the Netherlands, but Philip IV. I then extended the first part of the overview a bit, adding some more basic information.
--Martin Wisse 09:25, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  History 

message: "Prices keep rising, and incomes are dropping. The Netherlands' prosperous times are over for now." I think this needs rewriting. "Prices keep rising" - just like *everywhere*. Every country has inflation, and inflation in the Netherlands is not high (2.1% according to the CIA factbook. As for incomes falling, where is the source for this? I can't find any information on it, I doubt it's true though. As for the Netherlands no longer being prosperous, that's just silly. Joolz 16:25, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, I've just changed this section without having read this comment, but I agree entirely. The previous text seemed a bit politically motivated. The rate of inflation has decreased since 2001 (5%), indeed. Employment growth did come to a standstill, though, and incomes, notably those in the public sector, have not gone up. It is ridiculous, however, to state that the introduction of the euro has led to this economic decline of the past couple of years, so I've removed that suggestion. Sixtus 12:47, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Economy