Talk:Nisse (folklore)

message: Why did someone edit the tomte picture into a "nisse" picture? The illustration of a nisse is just... Some strange "art". My tomte picture is a real illustration of what the people actually believed in.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hom san (talk • contribs) 18:07, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Edit

message: Is this a real sport? Is it notable? It looks like nonsense. 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (< \) (2 /) /)/ * 08:29, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I deleted it per WP:NFT. —Ashley Y 07:29, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Tomte sport

message: In Denmark the " julenisse" and the " julemand" are two different things. The julenisse is the creature from the Scandinavian folklore which protect the house, but the " julemand " is just the Danish word for santa claus/ father christmas. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.52.8.238 (talk) 01:58, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Julenisse is Santa Claus in Norwegian.  Nisse is the name for the creatures that protect the house.  http://www.nationen.no/images/id/779/779178/7791786/jpg/active/866x551.jpg — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.202.3.137 (talk) 08:22, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

text: In Norwegian, "Julenissen" is Santa Claus, "Nissen" is the small protector gnome. 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (< \) (2 /) /)/ * 13:13, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But nowadays, "nissen" usually means "julenissen".  People generally don't talk about any other kind of nisse.  195.159.217.98 (talk) 10:25, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In Denmark where I live, I rarely hear people speak about julenisser (Christmas nisses), but nisses are almost only mentioned at Christmas time ( hear understood as most of December )  NLEenglish (talk)  —Preceding comment was added at 04:01, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Julemanden 

message: The Tomte page is very useful and informative, but, like all pagan traditions, the Church colonised the celebration of yuletide which marks the winter solstice when candles and the yule log were lit to welcome the return of the light and renamed yuletide as Christmas (mass to celebrate the birth of jesus). In Sweden it is still called Yule (jul - yuletide just means yule-time - jultid).
Many comments on this page haven't made that distinction which muddies the issue. The saints associated with yuletide - Nicholas (Santa Claus) and also Lucia (Santa Lucia) on 13 December - are christianised additions to the far older pre-christian welcoming of the turn of the seasons with the longed-for return of the light. Sunrise in Stockholm isn't until around 9 am followed by a long dawn as the sun climbs slowly above the horizon and sunset is at 2.30 pm preceded by a long dusk. So only a short part of the day, some 3 or 4 hours is with full daylight.
My suggestion would be to make a clearer distinction between the pre-christian festival and the various Christian additions made by both Orthodox and Roman Churches. Jim Kemeny 10:49, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Some clarification of this may be needed in the article, but it is important to stress the fact that in the rural areas the nisse/tomte phenomenon continued to be accepted by many as recently as the 19th century, quite undisturbed by the introduction of Christianity. --Saddhiyama (talk) 11:31, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pagan and Christian need to be separated 

message: What about using Leprechaun as the English/American name. The Leprechaun are in danish said to be an Irske (Irish) nisse. Or using Goblin as the English/American name as the first Harry Potter film says. The film is translated from english to danish and in the film Goblin is translated to Nisse.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.56.8.250 (talk) 14:49, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: They might be related creatures, but not entirely equivalent. Especially the goblin seems too malevolent. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 09:35, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  English/American 

message: I have to specify right away that I am talking here about the nisse/julenisse in the contemporary Norwegian imagination, so some or all of this may be incorrect in a Danish or Swedish context (actually, I think the article needs to distinguish more clearly between the three, particularly when talking about the nisse/julenisse merger). In that Norwegian context, however, I think the article understates American influence on the julenisse. In Norway, the contemporary julenisse is practically indistinguishable from the American Santa Claus. He lives on the North Pole, he is overweight and jolly with a long white beard, he arrives in a sled pulled by flying reindeer. It is true that he still competes in some contexts with a more traditional Norwegian conception of the julenisse (more similar to the nisse of folklore) and most adults, at least, are aware of the more traditional julenisse, but by and large Norwegian children think of Santa Claus when the julenisse (or just nisse) is mentioned. The result is that the traditional nisse (the protector of the farm as described in the article) is generally more clearly distinguished from the julenisse than the article seems to suggest. The "farm nisse" is mostly associated with old folktales, while the Americanized julenisse is very much "alive" in the contemporary culture. Maitreya (talk) 12:57, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course it would require some reliable secondary sources to add this information, but it is still interesting to see such a divergence. Speaking from a Danish perspective it seems the traditional view of the nisse has been more or less upheld, not least because of the large number of tv Christmas calendars featuring nisser which all portray them as quite distinct from Santa Claus, unlike the information given in this article under the heading "The modern tomte". As such I support that this article needs more distinction between the different traditions in the various Nordic countries. It does seem mainly written from a Swedish perspective. --Saddhiyama (talk) 13:10, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  American Influence Is Understated 

message: A Danish Nisse, a type of GNOME or Elf(The small kind) associated with Christmas in Danish tradition but not to be confused with the Norse mythology.  A Nisser is a human-like mythical creature of Scandinavian folklore. Nisser to have enough for Disposal with gnome and Leprechaun. In Old Danish fairies Story as a small gray man with a red hat as thanks for the help from an nissen peasant gifts the nissen a bowl of porridge but if the farmer forgot to give the Nisse porridge white Nissen gets angry and made life miserable for the porridge.  Publicly nisserne can also move by WHEN Danish moving overseas, not only with the horsevogns. Jensen (1997) showed that there is nisser of the dance Western Indie Islands.Blake found and so out of it is a Scandinavian minority in the Midvest of use, elsewhere these, Nisser grew up. This is shown on this map where the colors show how many Danish and Swedish and Norwegian and Finland is each tally. In most of history can Nisser talk with animals and to animal and do great use of forest animals!so maybe Wikipedia was part of the dance Nissen and the Norwegian Nissen and two research side and give the Swedish Tomte one page.
Recently, Nisser are also associated as the helpers of Santa Claus, which may be worth mentioning in the article.194.255.151.28 (talk) 12:57, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nisse 

message: From a Swedish perspective, this article seems to wildly alternate between describing a tomte and Jultomten which are very much two different things (albeit the difference has decreased over the years). Like the Swedish article correctly describes, a tomte is a mythical short grey and bearded creature that took care of the farm if treated nicely (or committed horrible mischief if not). The tomte had however nothing to do with handing out presents and existed long before Julbocken (the yule goat) was replaced by the modern Jultomten (basically a mix between a tomte and the American Santa Claus). Perkelton (talk) 04:11, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Difference between Swedish tomte and Jultomten 

message: In Norway and Denmark the tomte is called nisse. Only in parts of sweden it is called tomte. And even then it's sometimes called tomtenisse. Instead of saying "tomte, also called nisse", wouldn't it be better if it was "Nisse, also called tomte"?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by KnutfAen (talk • contribs) 19:06, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: okay, so i will change it within a month or so if nobody have anything against it.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.9.14.82 (talk) 18:31, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, this should be moved to nisse, as it seems to be more prevalent. FunkMonk (talk) 01:32, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: In Sweden the jultomte is the old man delivering gifts to the children and nissar (plural of nisse) are smaller and helping him. This means that tomte and nisse are not synonyms in Sweden, at least not when talking about Christmas. /Jiiimbooh » TALK – CONTRIBS 15:42, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shouln't this page be called "Nisse" instead of "Tomte"? 

message: Why does Haltija redirect to here? Some haltijas can also be called tonttus, but not all of them. The old haltija article was fine enough. 85.29.118.124 (talk) 17:06, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: See this change, earlier this year. I know nothing of Haltija, but I see your point and there's no discussion of this merge. If you think that they're better separated, then just undo the merge. Andy Dingley (talk) 19:11, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Why the redirect?

message: I feel we are confusing readers unfamiliar with the concept; heck, as a native Swede, I feel confused myself.
Let's start by listing a few facts that need better integration:
# The Jultomte isn't at all accompanied by the Julbocken in general - the Gävlebocken notwithstanding, Jultomten is very often depicted as coming alone, and I would say the american reindeer is at least as often his companion nowadays.
# It WAS customary to leave porridge. Is this section about the 1840s or is it about now? Is this a history overview or a contemporary description? (It is the 2010s now) This paragraph talks about how grown-ups remember the role of Tomten back in the twentieth century, rather than an up to date depiction. 
# the role of commercialism isn't emphasized enough. Or alternatively, that the article doesn't make it sufficiently clear what the section is about: again, a historic overview or the situation now. If I claimed Jultomten lived at the North Pole, I sincerely doubt young swedes would immediately protest "He doesn't live on the North Pole".
# "The use of the word tomte in Swedish is now somewhat ambiguous." Please rephrase in a way that makes it clear that all (most?) Swedes clearly understand both concepts, both the (americanized) Jultomten, and the concept of (much less americanized) "tomtenissar". 
# Sweden has (unlike other Nordic countries) currently a large population of immigrants; yet the article reads as if the modern tomte is unaffected by recent cultural influences. 
Anything else? More generally, perhaps it's time to split off the "modern tomte" into an article of its own, so it can reside between Santa Claus and Nisse? CapnZapp (talk) 10:13, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup: "santa clausification" of [[#Modern Tomte]] 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: It seems to be essentially the same concept as the Estonian päkapikud. Someone should add a reference about them to the article. H2ppyme (talk) 14:57, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Estonian version