Talk:All Hope Is Gone

message: This album isn't alternative metal. theres nothing about this album which makes it alternative, besides the fact that they used to play nu metal which is a metal genre influenced from a variety of genres (alternative being one of them). Id say this album is Groove metal and id like to add that onto the page without it being deleted. and its more groove metal as well because as stated in many reviews, they have used a lot more guitar solos now, and when the band was talking about the new album before it was released they stated that they would continue with the thrashy solos and riffing. the reason i am saying all this is because it says not to change the genre name unless discussed on this page. so i guess i need to wait for an agreement of some sort.   —Preceding unsigned comment added by Okram 09 (talk • contribs) 23:09, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: What sources do you have that declare the album Grove Metal? It may be clear as day to you but with reliable sources, it is nothing more than original research and you can't use it on Wikipedia. REZTER TALK ø 23:21, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem with your argument, Okram, is that there's no basis but your personal opinion.  If we're going off of personal opinions, then it's this simple: I disagree.  Now you can't add it.  Luckily for you, we don't go on personal opinions, we use reliable sources to prove our claims (click and read the link).  If you can prove it's groove metal, come back here and link us. --The Guy complain edits 00:30, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

text: Look, Like every other Slipknot album on Wikipedia, it is nu metal. Take Vol. 3: (The Subliminal Verses) for example. Even though it has songs on it that are acoustic rock, like Vermilion pt. 2 and Circle, but it is still labeled as nu metal. It is not hard core punk on any level by the way. So just because Psychosocial (song) is "Groove Metal" to you, one song will not change an album consisting of 12 tracks. CrowzRSA21:52, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Genre 

message: Finnish is spelled as "Finish" in the Chart Positions for different countries.  Is it possible for someone to correct it?   Alice1869 (talk) 08:39, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Blackngold29 12:12, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Mispelling

message: I was just wondering if this was noteworthy enough?  Is this actually a chart? REZTER TALK ø 12:36, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The album did go number one but those charts don't seem very reliable —Vanishdoom (talk) 13:16, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

text: Well I was asking if the chart is actually recognised, because the site doesn't look too legit to me. REZTER TALK ø 19:48, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number 1 in the world? 

message: Where was this album, or any of the group's albums, issued by Nuclear Blast? Outside of Wikipedia, there's zero mention of this. LuciferMorgan (talk) 15:02, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Nuclear Blast

message: i found a teaser trailer on www.opiumofthepeople.net and tattered&torn1.com. im just wondering why there isnt any article or mention of this.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zekethemaggot (talk • contribs) 20:14, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I will add some mention of it with references from Blabbermouth.net soon enough.  For now, those two websites, I believe are fansites, and cannot be used as references. --The Guy complain edits 20:42, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

text: One interview does not make a single warrant its own article. When it is released it will most likely chart, at which point it will meet WP:NSONGS, and we can get the article back up again. Blackngold29 15:24, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead Memories single/video? 

message: what about the album art of the special edition CD/DVD?
can any one upload it as my account is not autoconfrimed yet?

:It is the same as the regular cover art with a special edition sticker on the front. I don't think that's a legitimate difference to claim both as fair use. Blackngold29 13:27, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Special Editon Album Art 

message: Please explain how this album *itself* is not extreme metal? I find these characteristics leading to the idea of extreme metal, even when listening to the songs in passing:
occassional thrash metal  guitar riffs 
double bass drumming 
harsh, "yelled" vocals 
From what I've seen, those things an extreme metal band does make.  zaruyache  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.72.215.178 (talk) 23:50, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: See Rezter's comment in the "Genre" section above. Blackngold29 00:02, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

text: It doesn't matter anymore, as Wikiproject: Albums voted to take Genre out of the infobox.  Done dispute. --The Guy complain edits 01:02, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

text: I disagree with the Extreme metal tag. --The Guy complain edits 02:53, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extreme metal 

message: In an attempt to end continuous edit warring the following list has been organized, please add any sources to the list so a consensus can be reached on what to add to the infobox. Keep in mind that personal opinions have no place on Wikipedia articles, and all information should be from a reliable source and WP:NPOV. Thank you. Blackngold29 02:00, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Take it up with Allmusic. I did not include it in the infobox, because I felt "Heavy and Atl metal" was a more specific description. Most sites seem to give very broad descriptions. Blackngold29 17:57, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Genre Debate 2 

message: Why is rick rubin mentioned in the personnel section as the producer?
wasnt he not involved in the production of album?
Torque3000 (talk) 17:29, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: He was producer on Vol. 3. As the special edition includes tracks from that album, he is still credited for them. Blackngold29 20:24, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah he is creditted on the special edition because he produced the Vermillion track (alongside Chris Vrenna and
Clint Walsh) --REZTER TALK ø 18:02, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rick Rubin 

message: I know this is a rather silly question, but what exactly is there to do on this page? It's an article of focus, so I expected more in the talk page, and possibly people saying "This needs improved" or "this needs a bit of a clean up", you know? Just a question, but what are we meant to focus on this article?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.2.159 (talk) 08:05, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: At the moment we're doign a peer review to get help on what needs improving (see Wikipedia:Peer review/All Hope Is Gone/archive1) and after that I think we should try submitting it for featured article status. Sorry about the confusion, the next AoF we'll return to the old format of running things because this was gettign a good article to featured article.... nto a lot of thigns to do. Next time we'll do the old talk page... tihs needs doing. Thanks for your interest though. You can help out by trying to resolve any issues are brought up in the peer review and/or the feature article candidate discussion when we submit it. REZTER TALK ø 12:06, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  What to do, what to do... 

message: Now, this is something that I can't fix because I'm not really an admin, but Psychosocial is the first singe. All Hope is Gone was a promotional track, but never a single. Even Slipknot has said that Psychosocial is the first single.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.207.171.237 (talk) 00:46, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Around release time this was discussed in length on multiple talk pages. All Hope Is Gone (the song) charted on multiple singles charts and therefore the decision was made to count it as a single. There were some reports that said otherwise, as stated, but we cannot simply ignore AHIG because it was released first and it did chart. blackngold29 04:41, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I concur. --The Guy complain edits 05:32, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: WIKIPEDIA GOT IT WRONG!

message: The article's nomination has been archived. I will copyedit it in a few days, then we can renominate it again. Gary King (talk) 04:55, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, I feel that the article is ready for FAC once more. Gary King (talk) 19:19, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I still do not feel that the article meets the standards, but I can't really place my finger on just why.  It seems to be missing something to me.  But anyways, one thing; do we have singles charts? Those could be added to increase comprehensiveness. --The Guy complain edits 02:14, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  I believe singles charts are typically reserved for the separate song articles. If a song has charted, it is notable, therefore it would have an article. I am willing to clean up the article, but could you tell me what specifically is not right about it? Gary King (talk) 02:29, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You might want to run that by a number of other editors.  I'd try a WikiProject, like WikiProject: Albums.  Ask the main talk pages about putting singles charts on album pages, because I see it's generally done everywhere, but it isn't generally specified that it must be done, either.  I'd run it by the talk page.  You know, I can't place my finger on what seems off about this article, but I'd re-submit it for FA if you really want to.  I'll just comment there if I realize what it is that seems odd to me. --The Guy complain edits 02:32, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Generally done everywhere? Could you point me to some FA album articles that are like that? From the ones I've seen, including the ones I worked on (such as Vol. 3: (The Subliminal Verses)), single charts were not included. Gary King (talk) 02:41, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Specifically, I can not.  What I meant by that is that if I'm curious about an album, and look it up, 9 times out of 10, single charts will be listed on the article.  The reason I can't go specific, is because I only edit so many music articles.  But, another article I recently submitted to FAC, Indestructible, has the singles charted, and the FAC gave no criticism for that, if that helps any.  I think it's mostly optional, but I seem to find it in the good majority of articles I research here, and I think it helps, in the long run. --The Guy complain edits 02:53, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Featured article nomination 

message: Slipknot is not Death Metal, this is pretty obvious, please remove the tag describing the album as such.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.36.133.69 (talk) 19:48, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Which is why it isn't marked as such. If it is, then please change it back. Gary King (talk) 20:21, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Slipknot is not Death Metal. 

message: I would have to say that the album is very experimental and mixes different genres of metal such as 
Alternative Metal
Melodic Death Metal
Metalcore
Honestly, anyone who has truly listened to the album has to admit that it has some similarities to all those genres.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jakeellsonator (talk • contribs) 22:38, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not have to admit and will not have to admit anything of the sort. Even if I did, as you say, it would be irrelevant; what is contributed to that infobox is determined by reliable sources, and not original research, or personal opinions. --The Guy complain edits 02:31, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

text: Allmusic states it right here, no original reaseach. If you have another reliable source that has other genres, let us see the source and we'll add it to the list; it's as simple as that. If you don't have a reliable source, we can't add it because that's Wikipedia policy. blackngold29 01:33, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  genre 

message: I found a big collection of tour dates on the link below. Now, i know its from opiumofthepeople.net and also that it is not a very reliable source but if we can somehow verify these dates we can use them in articles regarding the past slipknot tours.
Slipknot Tourography
Torque3000 (talk) 10:03, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: First of all... this is not the right place to discuss this, this is a talk page on how to improve THIS article. Secondly... as you know, that is not a reliable source and it never will be. All the information may be true but we need reliable sources to support our claims, it's wikipedia policy. So in principal... that is useless. REZTER TALK ø 14:18, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Past Tour Dates 

message: On the special edition CD/DVD digipack of All Hope Is Gone, the last two tracks (Vermillion Pt.2 & Til We Die) have a really high pitched 'tone' at certain points (Til We Die more noticably). Does anybody else hear this?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.149.61.210 (talk) 10:45, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: This page is not for discussing the album in general. It is only for discussing improvments which may be made to the article. If you are suggesting that we should include this information in the article then I must say that it is not notable and fails WP:OR. REZTER TALK ø 16:43, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

text: That section is backed with multiple sources, if such souces can be found regarding this article the I see no problem with adding it. I cannot hear said tones myself. blackngold29 13:32, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  High Frequency Distortion 

message: There seems to be a dispute over which track is the last on the special edition. Some sources say "Vermilion Pt. 2": , , . However, the Slipknot official store and Google Shopping show "'Till We Die" as the last track: , . So, which sources should we go by? Timmeh 15:23, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I would guess the album itself, which would mean "Til We Die". blackngold29 15:27, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, that does seem like the logical choice. The official Slipknot store has "Til We Die" last as well. I wonder why all those other stores have it differently. Maybe there were copies of the album that had the last two tracks rearranged? Timmeh 15:31, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah maybe the digital album had the last two tracks re-arranged. But I think we should go by the physical release... which has "'Til We Die" as the final track. REZTER TALK ø 20:49, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Last track on the special edition? 

message: The current AoF hasn't changed since last August (almost a year by now), and All Hope Is Gone is already a GA (actually since last August as well). Is there a point in still keeping this article as the current AoF? —Terrence and Phillip 06:18, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: There's no objection from me to remove AoF thing. I guess we just got lax with it, I started University about that time and I hardly had anytime to use Wikipedia and I guess things just got forgotten. REZTER TALK ø 15:42, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article of Focus 

message: The album covers are correct on this date (see signature), please do not change. CrowzRSA 22:49, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You're going to need to provide valid reasoning, backed up by reliable sources, to prove your version is correct. Timmeh 23:03, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Album Covers 

message: "Alternative Metal" before "Heavy Metal". --AlemanI2.0 (talk) 23:31, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Priority 

message: I have posted 2 reviews over the past weeks.
Rolling Stone giving it 4 out of 5, which I saw in the August, 08 issue and was posted online until they re-arranged their website and all of their reviews of Slipknot's
albums are dead links AND Ultimate Guitar gave it 8.8 out of 10, when rounded up it's 9 out of 10. Links were provided.
Why has this been removed?
Either one into the list makes 10 reviews, as stated by admin.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kevon100 (talk • contribs) 23:47, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reviews 

message: Slipknot has numerous gold certificates including a platinum one.
The page only shows Gold in Germany so please would you add the other certifications?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kevon100 (talk • contribs) 22:51, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Display Certifications 

message: Please discuss changes to genres in the infobox here before undertaking them in an attempt to gain consensus, especially when no reliable sources are being cited.--SabreBD (talk) 22:00, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Genre changes

message: how com there is no info on  the All Hope Is Gone [Special Edition] album  i can find only some info on other sits here is what i found could some one add it thanks
13. Child Of Burning Time
14. Vermilion Pt. 2 (Bloodstone Mix)
15. 'Til We Die  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.186.173.73 (talk) 02:25, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  All Hope Is Gone [Special Edition] album  

message: * I've removed the groove metal cite. it was only describing one or two songs, not the entire album. Also, I'm not sure how much the Heavymetalnow.com site is reliable as it seems to publish user-submitted content without back checking. Several sources here are using bare URLs and a good amount of the links seem to have died. This article needs a tune-up. Andrzejbanas (talk) 14:37, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Problems

message: When seen in google the album name comes up as "Heat Wave Lava Boiz" i cant change it can someone else  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.240.230.25 (talk) 11:01, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bogus Google name 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The source does NOT call the album death metal; it merely says 'death metal lite riffs' (paraphrased). Also what's with the sudden addition of extreme subgenres? Like how is this death and thrash when MUCH heavier Slipknot albums such as Iowa are just 'nu metal?' --Solitude6nv5 (talk) 17:46, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I have removed them. The latter is because someone is vehemently opposed to adding them there and wants solid full support of it from a source, when none really exists. It's a shame that none of those sources have enough intelligence to see/note that. dannymusiceditor  oops  21:42, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay thanks, will admit I didn't review the revision history when I proposed the removal but I just checked it now and yeah he did exaggerate the information in the source. TBH I can see why thrash metal would be acceptable but it really isn't death metal. --Solitude6nv5 (talk) 18:58, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of death metal 

message: Couple of questions about the listed personnel:
* Why are the guitarists separated as lead and rhythm rules? It's a known fact Slipknot don't have lead and rhythm roles on guitar; they share both roles and both play solos in Psychosocial.
* Where does the 'possible backing vocals on some tracks' from the turntablist come from? 
Solitude6nv5 (talk) 18:58, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Personnel 

message: Ive seen so many editors keep adding Joey Jordison's death (e.g. "who later passed away in July 26, 2021" or "who died in his sleep in july 2021". 
PLEASE. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. STOP DOING THIS!
References to a musicians death on an album page (aka here) is only relevant when it is their final release during their lifetime/ or ever (not talking about posthumous records), e.g. with Kristen Pfaff (on Live Through This), Peter Steele (on Dead Again), Johnny Cash (on American IV), Chester Bennington (on One More Light) and most obviously with Paul Gray (as mentioned on this page!!!). 
As even Joey's wiki page states, he recorded other studio albums with other bands after his departure, making this NOT his final release during his lifetime. 
If we were this nitpicky and/or dumb we would literally be typing bullshit such as, i dont know, "Loaded by the velvet underground 1970: this was the last album to feature lou reed, who left the band, who died in 2013 of cancer". its literally like Commencement by Deadsy, who had a line that read "the now deceased wayne static praised the album".
What I am arguing here is that this is effectively reductio ad absurdum; it doesn't make sense when applied elsewhere!!!
Can we please set the record straight that this is not correct?
Thank you
wikipedia/quityourbullshit — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chchcheckit (talk • contribs) 
:Conceptually, you're correct - the fact that he died over a decade later isn't worth mentioning in this article - but please try to stay WP:CIVIL. It's not that serious or anything to be so irate about... Sergecross73 msg me 20:04, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Joey Jordison Death Referencing: PLEASE STOP