Talk:Baden-Powell Scouts' Association

message: Is that actually Wold cubs as shown in the article? Or should it be World cubs?
80.225.41.253 22:52, 27 Sep 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: Cubs

message: The new edits really need to be written as they instead of we. --Chris 04:30, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep, I left a message earlier for him on his talk page. I see you have done some of them. --Bduke 05:00, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: person

message: Was the introduction of baseball hats in Australia or the UK. That para had quite a bit that was UK not Australia and I have removed it. Is the movement in the UK affiliated to WFIS? In which case the movement in Australia is affiliated via the UK Branch. I've added a call for citations on both points. --Bduke 00:56, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Australia

message: Just recieved an answer fom BPSA and they asked me to make some changes. I'll include part of their statement, but I was asked not to give out the name, (e-mail) address and/or telephone numbers.
I hope you will look after the BPSA sites on Wikipedia for us. I have enclosed some information on Ireland and some information on BPSA UK (a message from the President of the Baden Powell Scouts).
For the Baden Powell Scouts UK site – can you please remove details to the overseas branches – (United States, Canada and Austrailia) as a lot of this information is inaccurate and I have our international Commissioner working on writing up some information for you on this section.
Currently two new websites are being made under my guidance to be unveiled in September. There has been a lot of work placed into them – the two sites will be
www.traditionalscouting.ie for Ireland
www.traditionalscouting.co.uk for UK
Here is some information on BPSA Ireland  & BPSA UK which I hope you will find answers all the questions, but if you have any further queries do contact me.
Ireland History and details
The Baden Powell Scouts Association of Ireland is Ireland's only Traditional Scout Association.
We are not connected to any political or military organisation. We are an independent Scout Association, and are proud members of the World Federation of Independent Scouts. This is a World body that recognises Independent Scouts Associations in countries across the globe that teach Traditional Baden Powell Scouting values. Scouting is a system of education. According to our founder, The aim of Scouting is to improve the standard of our future citizens with the object of using that effiency for service for their fellow men.
Traditional Scouting refers to the original principles set down in 'Scouting for Boys' written by Lord Robert Baden Powell, Chief Scout of the World.
'Tradition' is defined as 'knowledge transmitted from generation to generation' - In Scouting, once a Scout is invested Baden Powell believed they would continue to live to the 10 Scout Laws. These laws are kept by Scouts from the age of 10 to Adult Leaders who must renew their promise on regular occassions.
The Baden Powell Scouts Association of Ireland hold the ideals of Scouting that were created by our founder. The history of our association dates back to the foundations of Scouting in the UK in 1908. Our Association used the same badge system, ranks and uniform that were worn by Scouts nearly 100 years ago. We follow a charter set down in our Policy Association Rules. We have no paid Executive Staff or Leaders.
Troops in our Association believe that the original Scouting programme practised in BPSA Ireland is more exciting, fun, challenging and personally demanding. The traditonal programme also develops a sense of duty, personal discipline and honour. Some dont see these matters as important but we do! Our Scouts enjoy the traditional Scouting skills, lighting fire by friction, navigating by means other than a compass and backwoods cooking, like shown above.
The World Organisation of Scout Movement only accept one member association per country and as such we are affiliated to the world wide family known as The World Federation of Independent Scouts. We are affiliated with many other Traditional Scout Association's around the world and proud members of the WFIS.
BP Scouts of Ireland is not in competition with any other Scouting Association. We do not make claims to be superior, and we do not seek to influence the policies of any of the other Scout Associations. We have a policy of goodwill and co-operation with any Scouting organisation of like minded intent. (4th Scout Law).
We are proud as an Association to be upholding Lord Baden-Powell's ideals, and his original programs, proving that his planning and foresight still holds true into the future. The Baden Powell Scouts of Ireland still hold to many of the early traditions of Scouting. The boys also still have great pride in their traditional uniform.
We believe in Scouting as our founder envisaged, and it was from these ideals that a group of leaders, and Scouts came to form the BP Scouts of Ireland, having previously been known as the Independent Scout Organisation called The Christian Boy Scouts of Ireland. We invite all to discover the exciting programmes for youth recorded by our founder. While our association has tried to keep the values of 'Scouting for Boys' - our association has followed laws with regards to child protection. We have a chartered child protection policy for all our association and a child protection officer.
BADEN POWELL SCOUTS UNITED KINGDOM – MESSAGE FROM PRESIDENT
Hello and welcome to the official website of the Baden Powell Scouts. The Baden Powell Scouts Association is an independent Scout Association with membership in the World Federation of Independent Scouts.
The history of the Baden Powell Scouts Association dates back to the foundations of Scouting in 1907. In 2007 we will celebrate 100 years of Traditional Scouting.
Over 60 years ago my army pal was so daft on scouting he roped me into the Cubs. I had no idea what I was letting myself in for and had no ideas of Cubs or Scouts.
I have been involved in the Baden Powell Scouts since 1970. Without admitting my age I could be classed as the oldest active member in the association but as Baden Powell said “Scouting is a game with a purpose”. I have no decision to give up the game I love. I may be greying but I haven’t lost my hair or the love in teaching youth the values of Scouting.
My fondest days of being involved in BP Scouting have been my 50th year when I took my Scout Troop the 1st Yorkshire BP Scouts to Canada for a month. The Patrol Leader's of the troop were so good the following year I took them on a Tour of the USA and later to South Africa.
On the 27th May 2007 I shall have completed 60 years as a Warranted Scouter having started by forming a Cub and Scout Group in 1947 in Wuppertal Germany with all German boys!
I have yet to decide what I shall do for the 60th year as a Scouter! But I know it will be something to remember as will 2007 the 100th year of Traditional Scouting.
We have kept to our values in educating the youth of the values of Scouting that our founder Baden Powell envisaged. Traditional is not old fashioned, Traditional Scouting is quality Scouting.
Though I’m still an active Scout I know the future of Scouting and Baden Powell Scouting is in the Leaders of today and the Scouts who we teach who I hope will become the Leaders of tomorrow.
Thanks for visiting the site. If you are considering joining Scouts I hope this is your first step into the wonderful game, and I hope to hear from you soon.
Lawrie Dring,
President of the Baden Powell Scouts Association
I am the IT officer for the Baden Powell
Scouts.
Could you explain to me - hopefully more broken down about Wikipedia. I
understand its an online encyclopedia that visitors can edit?
I notice for both BPSA - UK and Baden Powell Scouts of Ireland, the
details are very sketchy and I don't know who gave Wikipedia permission
for the Baden Powell Scouts Association.
I would like to take control of the Baden Powell Scouts of Ireland and
maintain that it is accurate. By agreeing to a contract are we in
control of the information?''
Jorgenpfhartogs 04:54, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: edit asked for by BPSA

message: Just added some more edits that will not offend any of the organisations.
the BPSA and BPSA Ireland are both members of WFIS – In fact Lawrie Dring the president of BPSA is one of the founding fathers of the WFIS in Laubach Germany.As for the overseas branches I will get information to you hopefully by the end of  the week.Just a couple of things on the BPSA site on Wikipedia:The organisation shares the heritage of the youth Scouting Movement, but was formed in the United Kingdom in 1970 when it was felt that the "modernisation" of the Scout Movement was abandoning the traditions and intentions established by Lord Baden-Powell in 1907. The Baden-Powell Scouts retain the belief that essence of the movement should be based on outdoor activities related to the skills of explorers, backwoodsmen and frontiersmen.Yes all this paragraph is true – but can we change this and just leave it as  The organisation shares the heritage of the youth Scouting Movement, in the UK and next year will cellebrate 100 years of Scouting.We just think time and time again this remark of what is now deemed as history of 1970 brings up politics in Scouting in the present.I understand the sites must be neutral but I think those adjustments are fair comment. At times Jorgen we have been described as a “splinter group of SA” or in Ireland we are a “splinter group of SI” – which is clearly not the case. Were simply an independent traditional scouting movement that is moving forward and looking forward to what to do for the next 100 years!Despite the name, BPSA was never sanctioned by Baden-Powell himself. In fact, while he was alive, he always objected to national associations using his name in their denomination (he only allowed one exception to this rule), and strongly opposed any similar association not linked to his own (see his relationship with Sir Francis Vane).Yes it was never sanctioned by BP himself as he wasn’t alive =P  but the association did get permission to use his name from a familly member who strongly supported the Baden Powell Scouts. I shall get yoou further information on this also (I have the details I just want to make sure they are correct!) But in the 70’s the name was approved by a family member.
Jorgenpfhartogs 08:09, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: another edit

message: BADEN POWELL SCOUTS UNITED KINGDOM – MESSAGE FROM PRESIDENT
Hello and welcome to the official website of the Baden Powell Scouts. The Baden Powell Scouts Association is an independent Scout Association with membership in the World Federation of Independent Scouts.
The history of the Baden Powell Scouts Association dates back to the foundations of Scouting in 1907. In 2007 we will celebrate 100 years of Traditional Scouting.
Over 60 years ago my army pal was so daft on scouting he roped me into the Cubs. I had no idea what I was letting myself in for and had no ideas of Cubs or Scouts.
I have been involved in the Baden Powell Scouts since 1970. Without admitting my age I could be classed as the oldest active member in the association but as Baden Powell said “Scouting is a game with a purpose”. I have no decision to give up the game I love. I may be greying but I haven’t lost my hair or the love in teaching youth the values of Scouting.
My fondest days of being involved in BP Scouting have been my 50th year when I took my Scout Troop the 1st Yorkshire BP Scouts to Canada for a month. The Patrol Leader's of the troop were so good the following year I took them on a Tour of the USA and later to South Africa.
On the 27th May 2007 I shall have completed 60 years as a Warranted Scouter having started by forming a Cub and Scout Group in 1947 in Wuppertal Germany with all German boys!
I have yet to decide what I shall do for the 60th year as a Scouter! But I know it will be something to remember as will 2007 the 100th year of Traditional Scouting.
We have kept to our values in educating the youth of the values of Scouting that our founder Baden Powell envisaged. Traditional is not old fashioned, Traditional Scouting is quality Scouting.
Though I’m still an active Scout I know the future of Scouting and Baden Powell Scouting is in the Leaders of today and the Scouts who we teach who I hope will become the Leaders of tomorrow.
Thanks for visiting the site. If you are considering joining Scouts I hope this is your first step into the wonderful game, and I hope to hear from you soon.
Lawrie Dring,
President of the Baden Powell Scouts Association
Jorgenpfhartogs 08:12, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  message from the BPSA president 

message: I've also been asked by the BPSA to forward further questions to them. I can give out the e-mail address for the IT-officer which is rachel@badenpowellscoutsireland.com.
He (not a she) is IT officer and main point for communication for BPSA UK and Ireland.
Jorgenpfhartogs 08:18, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia is not an advertising forum for outside organizations. While I think an outside organization providing input is okay to a point and I think some of these changes actually made are fine, I think others are too POV and look like advertising. I'd also suggest stop forwarding questions to them unless there is a real need for clarification. It sounds to me like they're trying to control wikipedia's content.Rlevse 11:38, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  question by BPSA 

message: Unless the Ireland article can be made into high-end B-class article or above and have a good share of content different from the BPS article, I'd merge these.Rlevse 12:06, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would agree now. It seems like BPSA is almost exclusively actie in UK, Ireland, US, Canada and Australia with BPSA UK and Ireland more or less being the same I suggest one article for BPSA with subsections for UK, Ireland, US, Canada and Australia.
Jorgenpfhartogs 12:11, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge of Ireland

message: The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and may or may not be accurate for the article in question.
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You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Rlevse 12:51, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Peer review

message: Which independent sources do we have to support the claim that at least one family member of B.-P. encouraged them to use their family name?
--Lou Crazy 04:12, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I'd also like to know a name/date. Banaticus 06:16, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think I'll remove that claim if there is no source support for it, then --Lou Crazy 02:06, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK with me. Rlevse 09:52, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems that the statement reappeared... --Lou Crazy (talk) 02:41, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sanction 

message: i see that BPSA seem very keen to push themselves and help, have they been forthcoming with membership figures? I haven't seen any in the article... Stevecull 21:18, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Membership 

message: The Australia BPSA web page has the national organiser down as the contact for Western Australia, Victoria, Tasmania and the Northern Territory. It does not therefore look as if they are active in all those States and Territories so the statement in the article that they are needs a proper source. Also the contact for the ACT is the same as that for New South Wales, so activity in the ACT and NSW needs sourcing also. --Bduke 23:30, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Activity in Australia

message: This article has the category Scouting in the United States, however, the United States is not mentioned in the article. --Jagz 17:04, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is certainly stuff to add. See the mention of "1st Tarrant Group, Fort Worth" in Scout Promise. However, I think someone in Fort Worth needs to check it is is still active. --Bduke 22:08, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  United States 

message: No mention is made of past controversy involving the BPSA which nearly brought about it's demise during the 1990's and certainly ruined the reputation of the organisation when a number of leaders were jailed for paeodpohile activities, what made this more extraordinary was the number of leaders versus the number of BPSA Scout groups at the time which made it seem as if the whole organisation was riddled with this type of individual.  I looked at this organisation very closely as an alternative to my current membership of the 'official' Scout Association as an Assistant Cub Scout Leader and stumbled across this information by accident when my search engine threw up a past newpaper report, I withdrew any interest in the organisation because of it.  Perhaps mention should be made with reassurances that the issue has been dealt with properly?
Mspice2215 21:38, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably because we don't know the facts of the issue. If you do, and can source it, please add it.Rlevse 21:45, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The broad problem is mentioned here and I think the main problem is covered here. I believe that the Group was the 22nd Waltham Forest B-P Scout Group. --Bduke 00:38, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

text: This is what I have found on the the Internet archive:  www.badenpowellscouts.org.uk/about/faq.htm#safe www.webpages.free-online.co.uk/abuse/bpsa.htm .--Egel Reaction? 08:16, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

text: I think the point is that this incident of a small number of individuals had an large impact on what is a very small organisation. It is near the top because of its impact on the BPSA generally as it was founded in the UK. I think it is written in a careful enough way and well sourced. If you do not agree, discuss improvements here. To be NPOV we can not just delete controversy that makes the organisation look bad. --Bduke (talk) 22:36, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

text: I can see your point. I wish there were other editors prepared to comment. It is my impression, but I do not have a source for it, that these incidents in the UK, were noted here in Australia and perhaps elsewhere, and as a result influenced membership here. I think the comment should say it was UK leaders, so I'll add that. Please sign your talk page comments with ~~~~. Also why not register for an account here? --Bduke (talk) 06:59, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

text: Adding Hamilton to the Scout Association would be giving undue weight to it. but the incidents we are talking about were highly significant in the BPSA in the country where it was founded. I still think it is is best where it is, but if you want to shift it, go ahead. That might at least bring in another editor to think about it. --Bduke (talk) 23:01, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Controversy 

message: I have made a small edit to the main article to say that the BPSA is not a historical re-creation society, I feel that it is important to make that distinction.
Also the bit at the beginning where it says that the association was formed with the apporval of the Baden-Powell family I feel should state which members (I don't know myself).  B.-P. himself never agreed that the Scout Movement (in whatever form it appears) should make use of his name in the title.
Finally - sorry to be picky - but I've re-worded the paragraph a little concerning the jailing of leaders in the 1990's, I didn't feel it quite got the message I intended across correctly in that because of the ratios of leaders vs the smaller number of groups the impression was that the whole organisation was riddled with that type of individual, I felt that the paragraph was saying that the organisation was riddled, I feel that should be made clear so as not to offend those decent leaders out there who were and still are doing a wonderful job. 
Small points I know but I think this should be made clear.
Again if anyone disagrees or has better information than me please feel free to edit. Mspice2215 (talk) 19:34, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, I reverted some of these changes before I read this. We are not about not offending people or giving impressions. All of these are against our neutral point of view policy. Even the current wording is iffy. We should just state the fact suppoorted by sources. I have just gone back and removed another sentence that is really POV also. The first sentence of that paragraph needs a source. --Bduke (talk) 22:58, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

text: I have linked them as references, but the first one goes nowhere. Have I got it wrong? --Bduke (talk) 00:04, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minor edit 

message: I note that source number 5, used in the "Controversy" section, appears to be highly bias against Independent Scouting.  It was last updated in 2002 and expires in January 2009.  I suggest that this article is removed from the References section.  External referencing is already provided through the Scout History Association page.
I also question whether the short paragraph stating "The Scouting movement has had many schisms since its inception and B-P was careful to state that he did not want to see lots of different organisations at the expense of Scouting in general." should be in the introductory paragraph for the Association.  This comment would, I feel, be better on the Traditional Scouting page as it is a general comment and does not refer directly to the B-PSA.  -- DiverScout (talk) 20:25, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Does the source verify the content?  If not, then find a new source.  The dates are not an issue,  the site may get renewed; if not, it is archived.  I do think you are right on the B-P paragraph- I don't see the context here.  --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk -  22:40, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

text: Ah- I followed the wrong reference- no wonder I was confused.  I agree- this is a blog-like page where it looks like the author is attempting to show various Scout groups in a certain light.  As usual with these types of articles, there is no context with other groups.  --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk -  17:56, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Another minor edit

message: Proper article name should be "Baden-Powell Scouts' Association"  --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk -  21:15, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, but this was the title I inherited!  If anyone want to move it over it would be appreciated.  -- DiverScout (talk) 22:53, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Done.  --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk -  23:44, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article name 

message: :BTW- The BPSA is not listed at Age groups in Scouting and Guiding.  --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk -  12:45, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think this is because WOSM only recognises one Scout Association in every country so to them The Scout Association is the only "official" Scout organisation in the UK thus keeping the divide going between TSA and BPSA - and so the controversy goes on... mspice 2215 82.34.55.108 (talk) 22:13, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: When you have the (exact) ages you can just add the BPSA to Age groups in Scouting and Guiding. There are more non WOSM/WAGGGS Associations in that article. If you think it is to difficult, give the ages and I will do it. --Egel Reaction? 09:26, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  BPSA listing at  Age groups in Scouting and Guiding 

message: I have moved the opening sentence of the history section (1907 -1969) "The Baden Powell Scout Association shares the heritage of the Scout Association..." into the intro section.  It's a small point I know but it's important to remember that the BPSA between 1907 - 1969 was in fact the Scout Association, they only became the BPSA following the advance party report and the eventual split of the movement.  The sentence implied that the BPSA was a separate movement which ran alongside the Scout Association during those years and this was not the case, they were the Scout Association!  Hope no-one minds mspice2215 82.34.55.108 (talk) 22:03, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yet another edit 

message: I notice than a new editor has mistakenly removed the ex-"controversy" section which has been agreed to be merged into the history section.  Before this kicks off again I'll put it back in.  Considering that the B-PSA is now growing internationally at quite a rate, and growing "domestically" as well, I'm feeling that this entry is becoming less and less notable - the same rationale for not listing the SA controversies becoming equally relevant.  I do feel, however, that this needs to be discussed properly and in the right spirit before anything is done. DiverScout (talk) 11:46, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: In repect of the falling numbers of groups during this period, which was what was considered to make this notable for Wikipedia, I have just noticed that this period of time is also shown as having had a marked decrease in numbers in The Scout Association, but that no mention of the controversy issue is made there in connection with this decrease.   I propose that the reporting of this period in the B-PSA article ought, perhaps, to now follow the same line as the reporting of the decrease in numbers on the TSA article.  DiverScout (talk) 11:01, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "That" issue again 

message: The recent edits need discussion here. The reference to Australia has been removed without explanation as have the references to to the 1st Tarrant Group in the US. Please explain your reasons here. --Bduke (talk) 12:19, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree— I don't see the justification for the removal of this content. I urge all editors to please include an edit summary for each edit. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk -  13:25, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Edits by [[User:Traditionalscouting]]

message: How many B-PSA groups are actually active in the UK at present?  Are they concentrated in a particular part of the country or are they spread out?  When I made my enquiries about joining a few years ago I was told that they did not exist in my area (Essex) and if I wanted to be a Rover the nearest crew was in Reading!  Their offical web-site talks a lot about Yorkshire but says little about the rest of the country.  mspice2215 77.96.231.238 (talk) 17:12, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Please note that I'm replying as a leader (and a Rover), not as a representative!  The total number is not readily available, as far as I know.  Nothing sinister, it's just that the guys who run the B-PSA have had to put up with a fair amount of "nonsense" from elements in TSA, and they really don't see numbers as an important part of scouting!  There are, iirc, over 40 groups spread around the UK.  If there were a few of you wanting to be Rovers, you could always request to start your own Crew! In several countries WOSM leaders have done this, although in the UK the SA seems a lot less willing to accept this idea... DiverScout (talk) 18:29, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

text: No worries!  If you did, I'm sure that you'd be made very welcome.  DiverScout (talk) 12:01, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number of groups active in the UK 

message: http://www.bpscouting.org/about.htm
According to this site, B-P Scouting in the U.S. is "affiliated with the Baden-Powell Scouts' Association of England." They show several U.S. groups, but do not include 1st Tarrant in Texas. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk -  10:51, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Tarrant have their own web site, indicating that they are part of the BPSA, but not mentioning the BPS. DiverScout (talk) 12:28, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: But the Media Officer of the B-PSA says no group in the USA is affiliated. I do know the Tarrant Group have a link to the Australian B-PSA folk, but I do not know whether it is formalised. This kind of stuff is just difficult to verify. Also that web site has not, I think, been updated for a long time. Does it still reflect what they are? Do they still exist? I heard they did exist last year, but how do we really know? --Bduke (talk) 00:27, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

text: I spent some time trying to dig out stuff for the USA - and only ended up finding a third independent Group claiming BPSA affiliation!  I think I'm leaving this section well-alone! DiverScout (talk) 11:11, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: 1st Tarrant is registered as a Texas corporation— I will have to find that link again.  Looking at WFIS North America, they list "BPS – Baden-Powell Scouting" with a link to http://www.bpscouting.org/. This implies that BPS in the US is not under B-PSA UK, and looking at that page, they use a different logo with "B.-P. Scouting". This is confusing. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk -  12:40, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Even more so when that web site states, "B.-P. Scouting is totally independent of, and not affiliated with, either The Boy Scouts of America or the Girls Scouts of the USA. We are members of the World Federation of Independent Scouts and as such are not in competition with other American Scouting Associations, we are only their brothers. We are affiliated with the Baden-Powell Scouts' Association of England." DiverScout (talk) 21:19, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

text: I've put the BPS in the Scouting in the United States article as they are not BPSA, and that seemed to be the consensus from the discussion below. DiverScout (talk) 12:39, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  B-PSA in the U.S. 

message: There has been discussion on the B-PSA and its presence in other countries:
* Rename this article to Baden-Powell Scouts' Association (United Kingdom)
* Groups outside the UK that are under the direct control of B-PSA UK belong in this article
* Other groups that are verifiable independent of B-PSA UK, as appears to be the case with the Australian groups, should have their own article
* B-PSA groups should not be stuffed into Traditional Scouting; that article has several issues that I have noted on the talk page.
--—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk -  13:09, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, notability is an issue, as are reliable sources.  I'm not convinced that Traditional Scouting isn't something we made up. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk -  01:10, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I see it as just an attempt at classification.  Some title needed to be used, and that was the one chosen.  If this article becomes Baden-Powell Scouts' Association (United Kingdom) there will certainly need to be a restoration of Baden-Powell Scouts' Association (Ireland) as an article, even if the other groups become titled sections of other pages. DiverScout (talk) 12:33, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I have just realised that there is gap between Ed's point 2 and point 3. Ireland, Argentina, Malaysia, Germany, Denmark and Canada are not under the direct control of B-PSA UK (point 2), but they are not independent of B-PSA UK (point 3) either. It is claimed that they are affiliated to the UK B-PSA. I think we can leave the title as it is and cover the UK Association and associations in other countries affiliated to it. We should move those that are not affiliated to Traditional Scouting, although I do not see consensus yet and we still need sources for this affiliation. On a different point can someone who reads Spanish add material on Argentina and Guatemala, clarifying the status of both but particularly the latter? --Bduke (talk) 23:46, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Good points. Groups not under the direct control of the UK organization should be in separate articles and linked through See also. If they are not notable enough for a separate B-PSA article, then document them in the Scouting by country article. If B-PSA Australia is independent, then it should be listed in Scouting in Australia; if it expands, then fork it to a new article. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk -  15:47, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  B-PSA in other countries 

message: Has this article grown above C-Class?  DiverScout (talk) 11:17, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Quality Scale

message: The navbox at the bottom links to the universal articles on Scouting sections. I do not think this is a good idea— this template should link only to section articles specific to the NSO. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk -  13:16, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree, or else is there any point to the universal articles.  Creating duplicates for the sections in each NSO (which I will do if required) would surely be against the actions being carried out by the Scouting Project to reduce the number of articles? DiverScout (talk) 11:49, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If there is enough content for section articles, then there is certainly no problem with creating such; the BSA, TSA and Scouts Australia all have section articles. The navbox is titled "Programme Sections of Baden-Powell Scouts' Association", but the links go to articles not specific to the B-PSA. I'm not going to push it, but I think it is a bad idea, and not just for this article. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk -  13:13, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, there is as much available content for each section in the B-PSA as in the other Associations, but this could cause small chaos, as currently Beaver Scouts et al link straight to the SA pages - which would need to be re-named before this could be completed.  I can see that once created there would be immediate calls to merge the content.  If it's really wanted I'd suggest that this is discussed on the Project page as it will impact several pages and add to the number of Scouting pages at a time when I thought we're supposed to be trimming back. DiverScout (talk) 16:14, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Beaver Scouts is for the SA section; Beavers (Scouting) is the universal article. It is not so much about trimming for the sake of reduction, but in consolidating articles that have not grown in the years since they were created, or in merging articles that are not notable outside of the context of the parent article (or the parent article does not exist).  --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk -  16:43, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

text: Yes, but Beaver Scouts is not a Scout Association only title, although the entry suggests it is.  Were I to make one for Beaver Scouts (Baden-Powell Scouts' Association) theirs would end up as Beaver Scouts (The Scout Association), and we'd no doubt also end up with a disambiguation page added, presumably including Beavers (Scouting) which would duplicate a lot of the content of the other pages.  DiverScout (talk) 19:15, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: As I said, I'm not going to push this. Do notice that Beavers (Scouting) is mainly a list of differences, the only general commonality is the age group.  --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk -  20:41, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

text: Well, I've had a go at one for Beavers.  I'll wait and see what the reaction is before creating pages for the other sections (other than Senior Scouts, which seems almost unique to us now). DiverScout (talk) 18:15, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I fixed a typo in the title for Beaver Scouts (Baden-Powell Scouts' Association); shouldn't Senior Scouts (Baden-Powell Scouts) be Senior Scouts (Baden-Powell Scouts' Association)? --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk -  19:34, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

text: Thanks.  Yes, it should - accidentally clicked save when I should have proof-read it and I thought I'd not move it again just yet! DiverScout (talk) 11:47, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sections 

message: Is there any clearer info on this?  Who organised it, was it BPSA or TSA?  Was it an attempt at re-unification of the two associations?  Was it a success? mspice2215 212.137.45.109 (talk) 12:01, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: See Jamboree 2008 (Northumberland) --Egel Reaction? 12:11, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jamboree 2008 

message: The document produced by the Scout Action Group in 1970 was actually called "A Boy Scout Black Paper", and not "The Black Report". 62.25.109.197 (talk) 12:46, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: He's right - here it is on Google Books: "A Boy Scout Black Paper, Scout Action Group, 1970 - 31 pages." , 9780950160900. Alansplodge (talk) 18:24, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Black Report" 

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