Talk:City of Heroes/Archive 1

message: Was considering describing the different origins and archetypes, perhaps with examples from comic-books. Is this too much for an encyclopedia article? Would that be verging on becoming a game guide? Allen
The descriptions of the archetypes are great. I added two examples for the defender archetype. I'm pretty comfortable with calling Violet a force field defender (it was the first thing that popped in mind when I saw her powers in the movie), but I'm not sure about calling Cyclops a defender. He's really a blaster, although the game doesn't have blaster powers that come from the eyes. 
Can you think of any healer heroes from the comics? JohnnyB 20:04, Jan 27, 2005 (UTC)
Raven from the Teen Titans is one, also Dagger from Marvel could heal in a way. Maydlene Pyror, the clone of Jean Grey was given healing abilities by Loki once as well. There was also a healer for the Morlocks who could only heal other mutants. --James 08:58, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origins and Archetypes 

message: I added a few updates just now, expanding some sections, rewriting others, adding some new stuff.  A couple notes...
I really don't like the use of the word "dungeons"—I only left it in for the moment because I couldn't think of something suitably non-confusing to replace it with.  Yeah, it puts things in a context that other MMORPG players would be familiar with, but given that the vast majority of other (successful) MMORPGs have been fantasy, we have genre clash right from the start.  It just doesn't match the flavor of the game to talk about quests and dungeons.  I'd rather replace "dungeons" with something else, but if I replace it with "mission" then that might confuse people for whom quest means mission too.  Any suggestions?
:(Try Mission Sites or Instanced Mission Environments? (-anonymous))
Oh, and would someone familiar with the Paragoncity and Guildportals forum links in the external URLs list do a brief write up of them for the Communities section I added?  I don't know enough about them to say.
In the future I'd like to add some more sections dealing with things like types of enhancement, "Power 10" vs "Non Power 10", map patch and looping sound issues (vs EULA), and so forth.  But I figured the new section on Badges and Accolades was enough of a starting point.
Hope I didn't step on too many toes...
--Robotech_Master 18:26, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  My own updates 

message: Issue 3 did introduce toxic damage and Kheldians, but I don't think Kheldians are vulnerable to toxic damage. Kheldians are vulnerable to attacks by Quantum or Void mobs, which I think have their own damage type. JohnnyB 17:23, Apr 8, 2005 (UTC)
I havn't read or heard of a particular weakness to toxic, just the same level that everyone else has. --James 19:45, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kheldians vulnerable to toxic? 

message: Does it really make sense to create a separate article on enhancements and inspirations especially with such a generic title? RoToRa 11:08, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it doesn't - this should either be redirected and the information merged into the main article or renamed. --khaosworks 13:58, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, i've got around merging the information now. RoToRa 15:54, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Enhancements and inspirations]] 

message: Who is "Statesman"? Taco Deposit | Talk-o to Taco 16:42, May 14, 2005 (UTC)
:Never mind; I figured it out . Taco Deposit | Talk-o to Taco 16:48, May 14, 2005 (UTC)
For those of you who haven't seen the link, or are curious:  The Statesman (City of Heroes).  Donovan Ravenhull 19:52, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: True enough, though the use of the name in the article (in the Criticism section) insinuates the forum alias.  A real person's name should be subsituted in these cases, or the comments in the article set aside.  --EazieCheeze 15:45, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statesman 

message: Is there any desire to have CoH backstory heroes and groups (ex. the Statesman, Freedom Phalanx, the Midnight Squad) articles?  I added "the Statesman" as a section on that page. Neospooky 16:32, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I've been debating a generic List of Heroes and Villians of City of Heroes or some similar article.  Each signature character / group would have one quick paragraph and some of them would have small pictures (from my screneshots).  Donovan Ravenhull 19:54, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Related Articles 

message: OK, what's with all the French accents? The word in English is "melee." The links within Wikipedia will still work with the accents removed. (I speak French and like the accents, but I don't think they have a place in an English entry.) JohnnyB 16:59, August 10, 2005 (UTC)
Mêlée is an acceptable English spelling (see, e.g., Merriam-Webster). Many originally French words can retain their accents in English (résumé, café). Also, the mêlée article itself uses the French spelling. I won't revert your change, but I wouldn't suggest you do this in lots of other articles. Just my 2¢. Cheers. —Caesura(t) 22:55, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: In game the word "Melee" doesn't have any accents on it, and since this is a page for the game, we should use what the game uses. SeraphimXI 06:20, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

text: I agree, the game uses "melee" (sans accents), and since most English-speakers know the word as "melee," it should be without the accents in the article.  Also, note that in Merriam-Webster's listing of melee, mêlée (with accents) is listed as a variant, or less common spelling.  Personal observation o'TonyV is that it's much less common.  But résumé (definition 2) and café are listed as the main entries, with the non-accented versions resume and cafe listed as the less common variants.  As much as possible, we should stick with the most commonly recognized English spellings of words, and in this and other articles, I see nothing wrong with correcting them to use the most common English spellings.  My 2¢'s worth, --TonyV 13:38, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mêlée? 

message: In the Archetypes section, it lists several primary power sets for each AT, however I feel that the lists don’t really fit into it, first of all they are incomplete and not always accurate, secondly there is no mention of secondary power sets which help define the ATs even more. I also feel it makes the section much longer than necessary,  I think it would be better to have brief mention of what to expect from Primary and Secondary powers and let fan sites add the detailed information (which they do better anyway). --Zikar 21:16, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: * I'd be willing to rewrite the whole thing if it doesn't cause some sort of uproar... --Zikar 14:54, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Went ahead and made the changes. I think it looks pretty good. --Zikar 22:22, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archetype Powers 

message: City of Villains isn't a sequel to the game, it is an expansion that doesn't require you to have the original game. Some of the devs have called it a sister game, or an expanshalone (which is silly).  I think in the first paragraph we need to change "sequel" since it's not a sequel. I just don't know what word to use (Stand alone expansion problary works) SeraphimXI 06:18, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  City of Villains 

message: According to the edit window for the article, the article is now longer thatn Wikipedia prefers.  So I was wondering if we wanted to look into breaking several parts of it out into their own separate articles.  If so, the next question is what to break out.  One possibility that justs out at me is the Powers section would make a logical single article, with maybe a simple list of the five ATs left in the main.  Other possibilities for breakout include Updates (City of Heroes history) Servers, Criticism and Praise as one or two articles.  Other sections could be broken out if more shrinkage was still needed. - TexasAndroid 22:03, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If I don't see any objections here in the next day or so I'm inclined to be bold and go ahead and break out a couple of sections into their own articles... - TexasAndroid 19:01, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok.  The weekend has passed with no objections.  I'm going to go ahead and break several large sections of the article out into their own articles. - TexasAndroid 14:35, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Breaking up the article 

message: For anyone who may be interested, I have created and been working diligently for the past several months on a CoH/CoV-specific wiki called Paragon Wiki.  I've seen some (justified) complaints here about too much fan information.  Unlike this article, the Paragon Wiki isn't just a topic-overview general encyclopedia site like the Wikipedia, it's meant to delve into all the little nooks and crannies of the game.  Please feel free to come by and peruse the site, and if you're motivated, edit or add useful articles.  It's a volunteer effort that is 100% ad-free, and based on WikiMedia software so that all of your mad Wikipedia editing skills will directly transfer over.  --TonyV 13:57, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  A CoH/CoV-specific wiki 

message: I'm adding what little information I can to the beginning of the article to notify that there's a Korean release for City of Heroes.  If anyone can read Korean, maybe they can set up a more in depth page in the English language for City of Hero's entry.  The site can be seen here. Ryulong 02:21, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  City of Hero Asian Release 

message: Just in case anyone thinks I'm just changing for fun, I just did my first Hamidon Raid (Lv45, sidekicked) and received a Lv46 Membrane Exposure.  (Oh god, I did Quatermain then a Raid, I feel like a hunchback from crouching overthe KB and spamming holds) Mr. Cat 03:11, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hamidon Enhancements 

message: Revised the section on the "City of Heroes Roleplaying Game".  Note that this is the proper title of the game, according to the official website, which is why I specifically included that phrase in this section (as opposed to just "pen and paper version of City of Heroes").  Also added a sentence on the current state of development according to this month's press release.  
Just to clarify, since it looks like someone tried to change my comment above: there is no space in the word "Roleplaying" in the official title of the RPG on the company press releases.  It's one word.
Dugwiki 22:35, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you do a search based on the 1-933105-11-9 of the product, the official title appears to be "City of Heroes Rpg Registraton Manual". —Asatruer 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's just the title of one of the books.  If you look at the images on Eden's Website for the game, the series is called the "City of Heroes Roleplaying Game." Ryulong 02:44, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In addition to the image of the actual cover of the manuals, the official website product section lists the two main game books as "City of Heroes Roleplaying Game
Registration Manual" and "City of Heroes Roleplaying Game
Paragon City Operative Manual" respectively.  So it appears both on the actual covers and in the official press releases under that name. Dugwiki 15:30, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: City of Heroes Roleplaying game

message: I'm leaning very heavily towards splitting the CoH comic section off to it's own article, to have one less thing cluttering an alredy cluttered article.  I'll wait a couple of days for objections to be raised here but if none are raised, I'll likely split it out later this week. - TexasAndroid 19:13, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Considering that there will more than likely be a comic for as long as the games are constantly updated and such, I agree with this choice.  Perhaps it can be a home for storyline information, as well, seeing as every other established comic series' article does the same (sort of). Ryulong 21:01, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good idea. rootology 23:24, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  CoH Comic 

message: I am most displeased to see that someone made a thinly-veiled attempt at undermining Cryptic Studios and it's game with an entry about how they may have lied about a hacking incident never placing their customer's their customers personal info and credit information at stake. Furthermore, people keep stretching to add complaints to the criticism section. If we can't maintain a neutral point of view and stick to the facts, then I suggest that we do away with Praise and Criticism. --71.12.221.109 18:54, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you saying the hack did not happen? rootology 19:09, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Also, the not verifiable bit was put in since it is not verifiable... rootology 19:09, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I also added the numerous citation as Cryptic at any time can nuke that post entry by CuppaJo. No smearing, the hack happened, and was seen by tens of thousands (or more) players. rootology 19:12, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I know the hack happened, I was there. But the line of "Customer data and its security was not compromised in any way during the incident that occurred. However, this is not verifiable" is nothing more than a thinly-veiled way of say "Of couse, they're lying". Which to me, reeks of nothing more than a weak attempt at undermining the game and it's developers. If you want to mention it happened, do so. Keep personal opinions of whether Cryptic lied or not out of it. Furthermore, you only need ONE citation, the one on the official boards is good enough, any more is just space-wasting overkill--71.12.221.109 19:21, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Citing just Cryptic's post is a bad idea. They can remove it any time, and we have outside 3rd party news coverage of it. If only Cryptic is cited and they remove the link then this is an unsourced section of the article. rootology 19:28, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

text:  Also, I'm stilll bothered by it on the main page.  IMHO if it needs to go anywhere, it would be on the Server subpage, not on the main page.  This is much more an event about the server status than about the game status itself. - TexasAndroid 19:23, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's also notable as I believe it's the first time any MMO was hacked "in game" live in that fashion beyond everyday mod type hacks. I think it's a first page thing. Going to update my revised one, hang on a sec, then comment on that. rootology 19:25, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Yeah, remember KTR. That was more silly than anything, everyone was "sky is falling" over it. Check out my revised one below. I'm just concerned that there really is no way to verify that nothing was in any risk from a 3rd party perspective. What do other editors think of that? (no problems here with the trimmed down bit, just want to leave in that it happened since I think it's notable--and seriously not smearing. I loves me the COH). rootology 19:33, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Look down at the hack incident section. rootology 19:35, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I really see no reason for the "However, this is not verifiable." comment, other than to leave the implication that there the original statement may not be true.  If I said "Rootology says he is a truthful person, however, this is not verifiable.", it leaves the implication that there might be some reason to doubt that Rootology is truthfull.  It adds nothing to the statement except to cast doubt.  And there really is no reason to doubt this fact.  The game serves and customer data servers belong to different companies, for goodness sake.  So IMHO there is no reason to cast doubt on CuppaJo's satement. - TexasAndroid 19:31, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, works for me. I'd like to keep in at least some of the additional citations, in case cryptic removes CJ's post. We need to be able to still source it. rootology 19:34, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Alright, but let's make it just 2 or 3 citations, ok? 4 is a little much... --71.12.221.109 19:36, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No problem, trim it down to which ones you think are best and reinsert wherever it feels right if you're up for it. Just as an aside, anyone know of any other related/similar hacks on other MMOs? I can't think of any (googling last weekend drew zilch), I think this really was a first. rootology 19:38, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: None spring to mind. Though this really wasn't a "hack" in the classical sense, this kid just found an old server-monitoring program and used it. --71.12.221.109 19:43, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I doubt that this will be reincluded in the article. There is nothing we know that we can say about it that would use reliable sources. Ryūlóng 21:31, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV, people 

message: thumb|A screenshot depicting a hacked CoH server. 	 
On 2005-12-20, the City of Heroes servers were hacked, by an undisclosed method. According to NCSoft representative CuppaJo, "Customer data and its security was not compromised in any way during the incident that occurred." However, this may not verifiable by outside sources. Additionally, this is as of the time of the hack the first known live "in-game" hack of any MMO in this fashion.[http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=info&Number=4361331 cityofheroes.com: official incident response,[http://www.digg.com/security/City_of_Heroes_Hacked digg.com: City of Heroes Hacked,[http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/city-of-heroes/city-of-heroes-hacked-144399.php kotaku.com: City of Heroes Hacked,[http://www.jucaushii.ro/gamespace_316_rnews_4373_City_of_Heroes_Hacked.html jucaushii.ro: City of Heroes Hacked,[http://www.addict3d.org/index.php?page=viewarticle&type=news&ID=14982&title=City%20of%20Heroes%20Hacked addict3d.org: City of Heroes Hacked
That is completely factual (and as far as I can tell we have no way to verify Cuppa's statement reasonably). Any concensus objection/opinions/etc on using the shorter revised version? rootology 19:15, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I really see no reason for the "However, this is not verifiable." comment, other than to leave the implication that there the original statement may not be true.  If I said "Rootology says he is a truthful person, however, this is not verifiable.", it leaves the implication that there might be some reason to doubt that Rootology is truthfull.  It adds nothing to the statement except to cast doubt.  And there really is no reason to doubt this fact.  The game serves and customer data servers belong to different companies, for goodness sake.  So IMHO there is no reason to cast doubt on CuppaJo's satement. - TexasAndroid 19:31, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, works for me. I'd like to keep in at least some of the additional citations, in case cryptic removes CJ's post. We need to be able to still source it. rootology 19:34, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Alright, but let's make it just 2 or 3 citations, ok? 4 is a little much... --71.12.221.109 19:36, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No problem, trim it down to which ones you think are best and reinsert wherever it feels right if you're up for it. Just as an aside, anyone know of any other related/similar hacks on other MMOs? I can't think of any (googling last weekend drew zilch), I think this really was a first. rootology 19:38, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: None spring to mind. Though this really wasn't a "hack" in the classical sense, this kid just found an old server-monitoring program and used it. --71.12.221.109 19:43, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I doubt that this will be reincluded in the article. There is nothing we know that we can say about it that would use reliable sources. Ryūlóng 21:31, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Hacking Incident (revised)