Talk:Aeroflot Flight 593

message: The account given in the article actually appears to be from the episode of "Air Crash Investigation" (mentioned at bottom of page) in which this flight was shown, but as far as I know, there's no real way to show that this is true. I'm not too sure on the reliability of the show, but it did also mention the reason the plane dived was due to a safety mechanism trying to prevent the plane from stalling, and not due to the actions of the co-pilot/captain's son. Again, don't know quite how to cite this, though. --Jsloan31 10:25, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The figures provided by 203.14.101.3 is correct. But only when the aircraft is staying level. If in climb, Load factor (G) will be higher, lower in descent. En51cm 03:18, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Only for when those on the plane would feel only vertical (into their seat) gs.  That may not have happened; all would depend on the airspeed and radius of the turn.   Baccyak4H 17:14, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The Guy with the IP 203.14.101.3 is right. Total reaction(lifting force generated by wings)x cos45 = Weight(1G), so Total reaction = 1G/(cos45) = 1.41G. However the aircraft at the time might not have been flying constant altitude(eg desending etc) just like the guy said. en51cm
National Geographic Channel has another dramatization of this event as part of their Air Emergency series, titled Kid in the Cockpit.  Broadcast in the U.S. begins 10 July 2006. —QuicksilverT @ 02:49, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

text: The series of events in the cockpit as currently written in the article don't match very well with what I've been reading elsewhere. I'm beginning to copyedit to improve the grammar and such, but I think the accuracy of the events, as described so far, is questionable.  Don't be too surprised if some changes are coming, once I find time to cite reputable sources. - Itsfullofstars 03:44, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations 

message: The language in the main article is unclearly written, with slight gramatical incorrectnesses... Should be changed. --67.49.215.31 02:27, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "Yolk"? :D Kar98 (talk) 14:04, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Airbuses have sidesticks, not yokes or columns. knoodelhed (talk) 18:55, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: That's true of the newer variants, but in this case (A310) it was indeed equipped with a control column or "yolk". Tkbrett (✉) 20:58, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't egg him on. Captain Quirk (talk) 17:57, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Language

message: In the Air Crash Investigation episode of this crash at one point they mention a flight attendant still wearing an oxygen mask and also unbroken bottles of champagne..
They never come back to these points for the rest of the episode so is it just because they are irrelevant?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.44.41.130 (talk) 14:50, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unbroken bottles of champagne?  Oxygen Mask? 

message: An assertion has been added that this crash sparked outrage in the aviation community, and caused significant changes to flight deck protocol and sterile cockpit environments.  I've asked for sources that verify these assertions.  A Times article was added that was generally about Russian aviation mentioning this flight, but doesn't verify the assertions.  We then have some youtube video of unknown source which also doesn't verify the material, and may not even meet WP:RS standards.  Tagging with  does not mean that I think the statement is false.  What it does mean is that these are strong assertions about the outcome of the crash and needs sourcing to meet wikipedia's policy of verifiability.  Sticking in sources about the flight, but that do not verify the assertions isn't useful. -- Whpq (talk) 15:56, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: ok, so delete it Phobal (talk) 07:58, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Sourcing for protocol changes

message: The article states: "After the plane banked to 90 degrees, the remaining functions of the autopilot tried to correct its plummeting altitude by putting the plane in an almost vertical ascent, nearly stalling the plane." What is the source for this? The AP disengage warning sounded a good time before then, according to the CVR. I believe the official investigation concluded that the first officer had control of the plane when it stalled. Tempodivalse [talk] 17:24, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  When did the autopilot disengage? 

message: Rather than reverting again the unexplained edits made by , I will let  go for a week or so and will allow other users to post their comments regarding the matter. As to reliability, it's clear that YouTube cannot be over Flightglobal. Furthermore, the changes the user has been making had no sources at all. A reference was provided in the above diff, but an inline citation has not been attached. After the week had passed, the modifications will be reverted unless otherwise specified. Thanks.--Jetstreamer  13:47, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: No comments received in a week. I've proceeded to revert the above edit accordingly, as per WP:SILENCE.--Jetstreamer  16:19, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Latest edits made by EurovisionNim 

message: I would like to confirm that this is the final accident report:
*http://www.webcitation.org/6SSiGAY3x
*http://busybee.dvv.org:8000/flying/A-310%20Mezhdurechensk%201994.pdf - http://web.archive.org/web/20140909153712/http://busybee.dvv.org:8000/flying/A-310%20Mezhdurechensk%201994.pdf
I want to find an English version too
WhisperToMe (talk) 15:36, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: It has the registration number of the plane so I think this is the report. A Russian speaker would be needed to go through it in depth. In the meantime I want to see if somebody made an English version. I wish the MAK/IAC would post a copy on its website. WhisperToMe (talk) 15:55, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Final accident report 

message: This  edit has been reverted, as the source added does not support the facts.  says "The bank continued to 90deg, the aircraft pitched up steeply with +4,8g accelerations, stalled and entered a spin." This is in contradiction with "the remaining functions of the autopilot tried to correct its plummeting altitude by putting the plane in an almost vertical ascent, nearly stalling the plane". Nearly stalling a plane does not mean the plane effectively stalled. Furthermore, there is no mention in the ASN reference that the autopilot took the actions described in the text firstly quoted. This is original research.--Jetstreamer  20:47, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: "Nearly stalled" is certainly incorrect as the plane crashed which means stall. Ruslik_Zero 20:14, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Uh... you can crash a plane in a multitude of ways that do not involve a stall. That's a pretty weak assertion. -- 145.228.61.5 (talk) 11:30, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

text: I found this YT video that combines FDR animation and CVR audio. Perhaps this sheds some more light on it. -- 145.228.61.5 (talk) 11:34, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  An aircraft nearly stalled versus stalled... 

message: According to the Russian and Chinese articles there were 52 Russians, 6 Chinese, 6 Hong Kongners, 5 Taiwanese, 4 Brits, one Indian, and one American. But I can't find its source. 73.87.74.115 (talk) 19:10, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: No sources, no changes.--Jetstreamer  19:46, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

text: You should go to those specific language Wikipedias and ask there.--Jetstreamer  22:24, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

text: You started this thread, not me. I'm not interested in those Wiki articles.--Jetstreamer  21:29, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nations 

message: Reading this article for the first time, I found myself left with a question: since the accident appears to have been caused by having children in the cockpit, did this result in any policy changes at the airline or industry level related to having non-crew, particularly children, on the flight deck? 70.73.90.119 (talk) 22:07, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I have the same questions. Also, was the pilot found guilty? Was any condemnation issued, license revoked (posthumously)? Did anyone, officially, say the pilot or the crew made a mistake? Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:17, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: , why did you ask me to comment here? I'm slightly confused. MEisSCAMMER(talk)Hello! 12:24, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmmm, I got you confused with the main author here, I probably meant User:Thanoscar21? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 14:35, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: , hi! As far as I know, no, there weren't any policy changes. To quote, "The airline originally denied that the children were in the cockpit". Back then, Aeroflot, as the flag carrier of Russia, was given a lot of leeway, for example, in Aeroflot Flight 6502, the pilot-in-command made a bet with his copilot that he could do a blind landing. He failed, the plane crashed, and it killed 70/94 passengers. The pilot lived, served six years in prison, and is now a free man. Aeroflot was known as "Aero-flop" back then, simply because the USSR/Russian government didn't really care about what happened there. Thanoscar21talk, contribs 12:14, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: , Interesting. Was there no public condemnation of the 'no changes' or such, even in international press or by the International aviation bodies? It would be good to add to the article a sentence that 'no policy changes were made', if there's a source for this. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:29, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: , as far as I know, no. However, family members of the victim did file a lawsuit, but I can't find anything on the outcome of the lawsuit. Thanks, Thanoscar21talk, contribs 12:28, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Policy changes?

message: The article currently says Eldar was 16 and Yana was 12. This is supported by three of this article's sources. But the final report, both in Russian and English, gives Eldar's age as 15 and Yana's as 13. Interestingly, another source gives Eldar's age as 15 (and doesn't mention Yana's) but also states that Russian TV has given his age as 16 instead. A discrepancy like this probably comes from ambiguity if only their birth year is given (1978 in the case of Eldar, which could make him 15 or 16 in 1994). For now, I think it might be best to go with what the official report says. ThatFlyingSquid (talk) 19:45, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ages of Eldar and Yana