Talk:University of Santo Tomas/Archive 1

message: This page is now temporarily protected from editing, at the request of User:No Guru at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection.
It seems like a very long edit war over fairly small differences.  I don't know anything about the subject, but will try to ask others to come and offer their opinions, by posting on Talk:Manila, Talk:Philippines, Talk:Tagalog, etc.  Maybe when a larger number of opinions is available, some consensus can emerge. -- Curps 00:10, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I just put this on my watchlist now. What are the contrasting points of view? I suggest two sections a For and an Againts section or a similar structure--Jondel 00:28, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, take a look at the edit history.  It seems that the dispute is just over one or two sentences, but it's been going on for nearly a month. -- Curps 00:33, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Edit war

message: The following was posted at Talk:Philippines by User:Christian1611 (), and has now been moved here:
i believe that the version of the registered user is inaccurate and was done to bring harm to the University of Santo Tomas (that registered user is not even a Thomasian). To quote PWRM, "Santo Tomas is the oldest university in Asia and the largest Catholic university in the world, having more than 30,000 students on a single campus." Another site called Yehey.com, the Philippines' largest search engine, justifies that the University of Santo Tomas is indeed the Oldest university in Asia and in the Philippines and the largest catholic university in the world located in one campus. Allow me to quote Yehey.com, "University of Sto. Tomas. University of Santo Tomas - The Catholic University of the Philippines - the oldest in Asia and the largest catholic University in the world". Do you want another proof? To quote UAAPGames.com, "The University of Santo Tomas (UST) , was founded on April 28, 1611 by the third Archbishop of Manila, Msgr. Miguel de Benavidez, O.P. together with Frs. Domingo de Nieva and Bernardo de Santa Catalina as a preparatory school for the young men intending to join priesthood. Distinguished as the Philippine's oldest university, it is also the largest Catholic university in the world located in one campus." Therefore, it is NOT just one of the largest in the world BUT the LARGEST in the world. UST is also considered as the premiere catholic university here in the Philippines because of it's numerous achievements and notable alumni. Having four (4) Philippine Presidents, eight (8) canonized saints, chief justices, notable politicians, fifteen (15) Center of Excellence/Center of Development courses, ranked number 2 by the Professional Regulation Committe (PRC) no doubt that the University of Santo Tomas is indeed the premiere catholic university in the Philippines -- Christian 11:59 am (Manila Time)
:: There are problems that arise in the above argument. First and foremost, the proposed resources, namely PWRM, Yehey.com, and UAAPGames.com are non-academic. PWRM relates to particular electrical and power management issues for UST, and may very well have gotten the description mentioned from UST itself. Yehey.com is a search engine which is not reviewed and not academic in nature. UAAPGames is a  website of the University Athletic Association of the Philippines, an athletic league of which UST is a member. Therefore UAAPGames also may have gotten its description from material sourced from UST itself. In reaction to these, the edits I have executed are grounded on the following resources: The History of the Filipino People 8th Edition by Teodoro A. Agoncillo, The Philippines by Jean Mallat, The Jesuits in the Philippines:1581-1768 and Readings in Philippine History by Fr. Horacio de la Costa, Rizal and the Emergence of the Philippine Nation by Fr. Jose Arcilla, Kasaysayan: The Story of the Filipino People, and A History of Education in the Philippines 1565-1930 by Encarnacion Alonzo. These are all work by scholars and researchers of Philippine history. The matter of other Catholic campuses having large populations is without question. That UST has a large population is without question. However, a comprehensive survey has not been conducted to verify the claim that it is the largest Catholic university in terms of population. Finally, there is no doubt that UST is a leading private Catholic university in the Philippines. However, whether it can be styled the "premier" ("premiere" being more suitable for opening cinematic or theatrical performances) Catholic university can be very much contested, as I mentioned above, by other leading private Catholic universities in the country such as the Ateneo de Manila University and De La Salle University. Furthermore, "premier" is, again, pompous, self-righteous, self-promoting, and unencyclopedic. Not even such preeminent universities around the world as Harvard, Princeton, Oxford, Cambridge and others make such a claim. -- Rmcsamson
Premier does not necessarily mean that they are the best. One can argue the meaning of the word best because it is a subjective word, meaning there is no basis, it all depends on one person's views or ideas. When the University of Santo Tomas claimed that they are the premier Catholic University of the Philippines, what they meant was the idea that they have produced outstanding people on the likes of Jose Rizal, Presidents and Saints. A school being called best or premier is rooted by the students who graduate. UST has produced outstanding students; as proven by the licensure examinations, awards center of excellence and development given by the accrediting agency of the Philippines and its graduates. I would like to quote a sentence, "The fruit is as good as its tree." The UST graudates are achieveing higher grounds and other schools perceived them as very good at what they do and admire them for the way they act, their humility and kindness. The reason why it is also called premiere is because of time. UST has been standing at the Philippine education system and they were able to influence and moreover inspire the Filipino people. That is the reason why it is the premiere university.
University of San Carlos can claim the oldest university or what not but in the end, people will always remember University of Santo Tomas as the university that has influenced time, places and generation and it is aptly called Catholic- catholic means universal.- agent_remus
:: "Premiere" does not mean "best" at all. It refers to a movie showing.If we are to take a simple dictionary definition for the word "best," the issue of the word's meaning can be clearly discussed objectively and with basis. And from this, I affirm my earlier assertion: "whether it can be styled the "premier" Catholic university can be very much contested, as I mentioned above, by other leading private Catholic universities in the country such as the Ateneo de Manila University and De La Salle University. Furthermore, "premier" is, again, pompous, self-righteous, self-promoting, and unencyclopedic. Not even such preeminent universities around the world as Harvard, Princeton, Oxford, Cambridge and others make such a claim." The rest of the statements in the preceding argument by agent_remus are, unfortunately, boosterism and matters of opinion. Finally, it will be helpful for the concerned to read this: Wikipedia:Avoid_academic_boosterism
The words, "leading private Catholic universities in the country such as ADMU and DLSU," are contestable because they are not the leading Catholic institutions. Again, fish are caught through their mouth. You just said the words leading. Leading to whom? Says who? You? Asiaweek? Your group of academic scholars say from ADMU or DLSU or San Carlos? Everything that is written here are opinions. they have facts, yes but they were just buttering a bread full of opinions. Academic boosterism? Hey, you just sided with ADMU and DLSU by saying that they are the leading Catholic institutions.
If you are basing the Asiaweek, you have to check your facts again. They were stopped because of the inaccuracies of their informations. They judged the school based on figures that they think are the determinants of what the best school is. And by the way, do you know what Harvard, Yale and Princeton have in common? They are in Ivy League and you should know that being in the Ivy league that school has to have "academic excellence, selectivity in admissions and a certain amount of academic elitism" (have to borrow this from Wikipedia). So this schools that are mentioned are also making claims that indeed they are premier, elite, best of the best, highest academic standard, and any words that would mean they are superior. ADMU and DLSU, they just have lots of money and a very good public relations program. They want the people to think that they are catering to the intellectuals or scholarly types but then again they are just a bunch of schools trying to ensnare people with lots of money. It is a money making school. They charge people a lot for a more quality education that they can have from other schools such as FEU, NU or UE. They just cater for the rich and the famous. Leading? think again...
Enough said, here are the facts- UST has produced people who had influenced the course of the Philippine history. UST has academic excellence with accreditations from the Philippine govenrment. They proved they have the top notch people through the Philippine board examinations. So are these facts valid? -robert
:: Ateneo and La Salle are not leading Catholic institutions? Note my deliberate non-use of "the": I am making a generalization, not a specific reference. Nor have I denied that Santo Tomas is among the leading Catholic institutions, nor have I denied what accolades its alumni have, nor am I denying its role in Philippine history. That's absolutely IRRELEVANT to my argument. What I have said is that it be called THE leading institution can    be contested by schools such as the Ateneo de Manila and La Salle. Calling it THE leading academic institution, in the absence of definitive proof, is a matter of opinion. The other points presented (Asiaweek, etc.), are immaterial. Rmcsamson 10:31, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's quite simple, actually. A little browsing of the edit history OF THIS ARTICLE will show that I was referring to a non-NPOV edit which said UST was the "premiere (sic) Catholic university" or something to that effect. But then again, I suppose you already know that, right? About your last few sentences, if you can produce the figures, then we've got something to talk about. Rmcsamson 02:20, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Universidad of Santo Tomas Links and Arguments

message: This article is bullet list city! Although I understand the desire the list every single degree offered, of which UST has a lot; I am sure there is a better way to do it. It looks ridiculous with this many bullets.
: I agree. I'm planning to remove the bulleted lists and change them to paragraph form. Howard the Duck | talk, 13:39, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  too much bullet points! 

message: Recently ana nonymous user keeps on deleting the USTExchange link in the external links section. Now although I believe that the site is a valid link, and conforms to Wikipedia's policies on external links as if gives the researcher valid site which gives several views on UST and its community., the anonymous user insists on removing the links because the site is not connected to the University. Now if that wsd the case, then we would have to delete ALL fansites and references  from each and every article. Now that'll be against those policies, right? Also, then atenista.net. greenarcher.net, bedista.com and countless other BBSs would have to be removed. Currently, the anonymous user does not want to conform to policy so, we will continue in reverting. --Howard the Duck 08:37, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [http://ustexchange.yehey.com]