Talk:Perverted-Justice/Archive 6

message: If any actual Wikipedian wants to Wikify the recent happenings in Detroit, that'd be cool. - Detroit News  XavierVE 08:43, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Detroit News

message: Someone might want to incorporate this article into the page. --Jersey Devil 16:56, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: MSNBC Article

message: The  Rolling Stone article about PJ indicates that the entry needs to be rewritten, especially the history section since the article seems to have more information than the entry does about this (including the other founding member and the actual beginnings of the site).  --86.63.141.110 14:55, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for your suggestion. When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes.  Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the Edit this page link at the top. The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes — they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills.  New contributors are always welcome. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to).    Powers T 15:14, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

text: I doubt it. Wrong side of America, Xavier lives in Portland, SqueakBox 01:12, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

text: Your personal observations re: Eide's limping are not verified by a secondary source. We can't use our own observations in articles we edit because that would be a violations of WP:NOR. I'd say, if you a reliable  source on this issue, you could include it, but it's a moot point, as our article doesn't make a claim either way on the matter. Vagr4nt 22:05, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Rolling Stone article

message: The Media section claims WTMJ-TV was the first to do a media bust. This is not true.
The WTMJ channel 4 media bust was in April of 2005. Dateline did the very first media bust in 2004, but it was not called “To Catch a Predator” at that time. After the very first Dateline there was several media bust from various independent and local affiliate broadcasters. Dateline then picked it up again and started the series after contracts where signed. This section needs to be totally rewritten. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.163.176.24 (talk • contribs) 01:48, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Is there a source for this?  Abe Froman 02:28, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the original poster of this is confused.  I believe PJ did two media busts with WTMJ - the one in 2005 was the 2nd one.  FrederickTG 13:02, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Media section

message: Apparently someone else has already noticed this, but PJ is redirecting any link from here to a nice little rant about how the evil pedophiles have overrun Wikipedia and it's all our fault for not banning anyone who might even possibly be a pedophile just because they think things people don't like. Besides the fact that it's paranoid bullshit, they are redirecting not just links to the front page but to any page. While that in itself is pretty damn annoying, they're also providing no way to get to the originally linked page, thus making any link to their site utterly worthless. I've no clue as to what should be done about this, so I figured I'd post it here to get some opinions on it. Stically 03:30, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well it means that anything in the PeeJ article that is currently verfied via a link to PeeJ will have to be removed as unsupported. This should probably go to AN/I or OFFICE. Anchoress 05:05, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

text: I guess I'll clean out the offending links until someone can find a new source. Thanks for the heads up. Vagr4nt 05:44, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks like User:Sarah has already taken care of this. Vagr4nt 06:40, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I've removed all out outgoing links (I think). I also noticed that the page they are redirecting our traffic to has a link to a wiki page which contains a list of Wikipedia users who they allege are pedophiles. I'm going to report this on AN/I shortly and hopefully some more admins will start watching the page. Thanks to the person who first reported this and thanks Vagr4nt for letting me know about the one I missed. Sarah 06:51, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No reason to remove them. Just break them so people can still copy and paste into browser adress bar.Geni 11:06, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Definitely. This isnt the first site to do this and all we have to do is give nowiki links, SqueakBox 19:30, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's fine. I don't  object to doing that at all. I just wanted the links removed while I got other administrators involved. Thanks everyone for commenting, Sarah 00:35, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

text: That is because the link was deactivated. Try accessing it from this edit  - Anyway, I will recommend for Von Erck to read the series Death Note and to study the actions and consequences of Light Yagami, the titular character. Light starts a campaign, in the series, to kill criminals in the world. Light's downfall comes from his desire to challenge opponents in the police forces and people who are willing to expose the identity of "Kira" (the pseudonym for the person killing criminals - the world does not know that "Kira" is Light). Von Erck's desire to challenge his opponents may prove to be his downfall. WhisperToMe 16:07, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I did access it from that link; it comes up fine.  Someone on the AN/I thread mentioned that my browser is probably set to not transmit the referrer.  Powers T 01:13, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: PJ redirecting links from Wikipedia

message: Use Template:Derefer ... by linking to a URL which redirects to the target URL with the use of meta-HTML tags, it strips the HTTP request of any URL referrer-info.  I added it to the bottom of this article, and it works fine.  --Iamunknown 05:13, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Don't "clean" or remove the links

message: This section within the article profiles their accusations against major corporations of being 'sex offenders'. While I can't find any evidence that they've reacted, could they? It does seem to be a bit libellous to call someone a sex offender like that. While they might get away with it without proof against a lot of people, these guys who have lawyers and stuff seem pretty capable of defending themselves. Also another aspect of their 'CorporateSexOffenders' site is a 'wikisposure' in the style of wikipedia in which they engage in the same harassment campaigns they did against people they called before, only this time they don't go after people who chat up their agents, but rather, people who they accuse of being pedophiles due to engaging in free speech on the internet. It is not an openly-edited wiki, and no effort is made to verify facts, or to update them in response to requests or new information. It is something that condemns those who have controversial viewpoints and who are careless with their personal information. It serves to destroy the people who would generally be the least threatening. It will serve as an example to motivate true predators to not share a thing and become more self-involved and thus threatening to others, and to draw attention away from them towards confused individuals who may even mistakenly identify themselves as a pedophile without knowing the implications associated with the word. This is not seen as an adequate defense in their eyes. They presume the worst in all cases, that what could be an honest mistake is better assumed to be an evasion tactic. Tyciol 06:39, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Perverted-Justice#Other efforts]]

message: This article appears to be implying that only men molest children (or, at the very least, that this organisation only targets men who molest children). Throughout the article, these pedophiles are referred to not only by male pronouns but directly as "these men" (etc). This needs to be either substantiated or removed.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.59.16.127 (talk) 15:10, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, PJ has only caught men.  Therefore, calling them "men" in the context of this article is entirely appropriate. FrederickTG 03:44, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Because Xavier himself has said they've never found women trolling chat rooms, and that's basically all they do.  It has nothing to do with saying only men molest kids.  The org does seem to focus a lot on them, though, and Xavier's known hatred of his own father could probably help send a psychiatrist's kids to college... --Torbaby 12:29, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm curious about this too. The article begins by stating "for adult men to approach them," and continues on in this fashion. Unless the mission statement is truly only to catch men, this needs to be rectified. --HarmonicFeather 18:33, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Only men?

message: The "Official Website" link appears to be advertising click-fodder for ultimod.com.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.1.253.167 (talk) 00:56, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see an explanation, but I think this was done because if you go direct from Wikipedia to their site, they pop up a special page saying that Wikipedia is a host for pedophiles, and we didn't want to have that show up.  You can see what I mean if you click on this link which goes straight to their site, versus the URL listed in the article now.  Georgewilliamherbert 01:01, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, yes.  That appears to be the case.  Did not know about their referral trap.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.1.253.167 (talk) 09:20, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Another Bad Link

message: Okay, there seems to be some confusion about what has happened in Riverside county.  There has only been ONE deadlocked jury (in the Havey case, 10-2).  That other example that Vagrant gave of a 6-6 deadlock doesn't even mention PJ in the story, AND it is from 1999, which is before PJ even existed.  Also, the judge did not "throw out" the case, he just commented on the case's merits.  The jury deadlocked.  There potentially could have been a retrial, but I guess for whatever reason they decided not to persue it.  The way I have edited the section now is accurate.  Please read each cited article carefully.FrederickTG 20:12, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Riverside confusion

message: Who here thought that the name perverted justice was a pun out of the onion at first glance?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.104.215.146 (talk) 18:39, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Question

message: In light of recent articles discussing the financial details and motives relating to PeeJ's dealings with NBC (per IRS filings), I find it pertinent to include these figures as well as the salaries paid to the organization's three chief officers (Von Erck, Kerr, and Shea). The amounts involved are not only notable, but rather significant. Vagr4nt 11:04, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What's the source - something like Guidestar? If other articles have already discussed financial details then a primary source would be permissible in this instance.  ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 22:35, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Income and Salaries

message: We need to have some text on CorporateSexOffenders.com.  If you go to the site and look on the left hand side, they work with people like AbsoluteZeroUnited.org and other vigilantes.  Yes, this is what they are.  They have attacked many people who are sex offenders but not who these people say they are, just for speaking out on Sex Offender Issues and laws, and they say you are pro-pedophile or pro-sex offender, which is all lies.  Other people they work with, go around, shutting down blogs, web sites, and harassing people online, send threatening emails, etc.  Just go to their Wikisposure.com web site and read some things they say about SOSEN, SOclear, Roar4Freedom, etc.  Most of it is lies.  Please investigate these people.  You can also go to Corrupted-justice.com which has ex-PJ members, and they will show you what PJ, CorporateSexOffenders and these other people are really like.  Don't take my word for it, please do investigate them.... User:68.242.82.213 08:00, 22 November 2007
:Any sourced reliable information about corruption, motivations, and behavior of CorporateSexOffenders is welcome in the article. However, material cannot be added if it's based on hearsay or is not sourced to an appropriate notable outside party. Wikipedia doesn't claim that CSO is a reliable source of information or a reasonable entity at that (after all, it even lists Wikipedia as a corporate sex offender), but WP does point out that this group is notable in the anti-pedophile movement. As such, CSO deserves some space within the project, as does Corrupted-Justice, which stands in opposition to its activities.   ~ Homologeo (talk) 06:54, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think Corrupted-Justice stands in opposition to CSO. It was formed far before CSO was. It stands in opposition to P-J primarily, and if they are opposed to CSO it would likely be for the reason that it is an extension of P-J operated by them. I personally do find going after non-criminals to be more alarming than going after criminals. Tyciol (talk) 10:30, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: CorporateSexOffenders