Talk:Tanka

message: I moved Tanka to Waka since there is no waka article then and it seems appreciate to discuss choka and takan at once in waka article. They may deserve to their own article, but tanka article is still very short, so I think it's fine for now. --Taku 02:41, 12 Sep 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey Kujakupoet! I have gone ahead and created the article at Tanka in English. If you have time, please add to it and help build it up to the standard of Haiku in English. elvenscout742 (talk) 16:27, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tanka/Waka move 

message: As for the list of famous waka poets, we probably don't want that to get too long, and some of the ones that I listed are not necessarily that famous or important,but just ones that already had Wikipedia articles or stubs. What might be a good idea is create two columns, one of pre-Meiji waka poets, and another of modern tanka poets. The other choice might be to create an annotated list to explain why a person is on the list. (Here is an example for someone who currently doesn't even have a stub and certainly deserves a full article: Fujiwara Teika (1162 - 1241) Compiler of the 8th and 9th Imperial anthologies, as well as Hyakunin Isshu. Should the list be chronological, or alphabetical?
:Agreed. The list should be downsized particularly for readability. We will make a category of waka poets or two lists List of waka poets and List of tanka poets. IMHO it would be friendly  for newbies our list on this article provide readers with from five to seven poets per an epoch; so we have from 20 to 28 names at last. --Aphaea.
Schnolle: Maybe it's me, but I don't think that the poems need to be set off with the double lines. I really liked the look after the poems were set up in the three columns, but adding the double lines for me makes it look like a break in the text for a new section or something.
:You're right, I'll remove them. I put them there because I felt it would look nice to have it stand out more clearly; using vertical space probably will do just fine. Haven't seen many other examples of poems in WP... --Schnolle 12:06, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for your encouragement. Your corrections are always appliciated by me. --Aphaea 12:43, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article editing discusion #2 

message: I just ran this article through a spell-checker (I recently installed the SpellBound extension for the Firefox browser--it's slow, but it works). --gK ¿? 03:13, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spell-check 

message: When this page was first moved to Waka, there were no other articles with this name. Unfortunately, "waka" is also the name of a type of canoe - the primary means of transport among many Pacific Island peoples - and is the principle form of tribal grouping among Maori (who trace their ancestry back to whichever waka first brought them to New Zealand). As such, I repeatedly have to replace links from articles relating to Maori history which erroneously lead to this article on Japanese poetry rather than to waka (canoe).
I realise that the number of correct links to the page on Japanese poetry outnumber those to Maori waka by a large factor (122 to 38, to be precise), but the numbers for the two subjects are both high enough that it seems to me it would make more sense to have the disambiguation page at Waka and the poetry page at Waka (poetry). I'm considering formally requesting this at Requested Moves, but thought it would be more diplomatic to suggest it here first, to see if there's support for this without having to go through the rigmarole of official channels. Grutness...wha? 07:58, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Since there's been no objection in nearly a month, I'm moving the pages. Grutness...wha? 09:38, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Page move request

message: The sijo article seems to imply that waka is derived from sijo.  Is this true, arguable,  false, misleading or what?  Kdammers 07:00, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sijo as ancestor ? 

message: Nice editing of the opening, Shooklyn. While I doubt anyone is likely to challenge your statement that waka is "one of the major genres of Japanese literature", using the back cover of Ueda's book is less than ideal. I don't have access to the book here, but it's unclear from your wording "(back cover excerpt)" whether you are (1) referring to an excerpt from the text of the book, which appears on the back cover, or you are (2) referring to an excerpt from the back cover. If the former, then wouldn't it be preferable to refer the reader to the page that the excerpt is taken from? If the latter, then it's arguable how useful the reference is, since a cover blurb is very unlikely to have been written by the author.--Yumegusa (talk) 18:11, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Genre again 

message: A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Quintain (poetry) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Quintain (poetry) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion.  However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
I've posted this notice here as it may be of interest to editors of this article because, according to Quintain (poetry), waka is a type of quintain. --gråb whåt you cån (talk) 17:02, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nomination of [[Quintain (poetry)]] for deletion 

message: I was wondering what sources were used for the example poems. For instance in the chouka: 子ども思ほゆKwodomo omopoyu... As far as I understand, there was no kana in the Man'yōshū. As for the romaji/pronounciation, it seems non-standard from a modern perspective. Is it meant to represent the pronounciation of Nara period Japanese? bamse (talk) 09:55, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't worry bamse. It is apparently incorrect edits by User:DTOx in April. I reverted the edits. ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 10:13, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. I was not worrying, rather confused. I still wonder whether it is worth having the mixed Kanji/Kana Japanese there (romaji is fine with me) since this is en-wikipedia and those are not the way the poems were written originally, which AFAIK was in Chinese characters only. bamse (talk) 21:22, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Manyogana, kana, romaji 

message: Back in 2003, this article was moved from Tanka to its present location (see first post at top of page). That seems anomalous, now that the great majority of the article is about tanka, rather than the old non-tanka forms of waka (choka, sedoka, etc.). The 31-mora form has been known as tanka for well over a century now, and not having a separate article for it is analogous to having no article haiku but including all of that article's content in the hokku article. (Masaoka Shiki renamed waka and hokku to tanka and haiku respectively, in the late 19th century, the term waka having long become synonymous with the 31-mora form, since choka, sedoka etc. had fallen into disuse.)
There is already a page Tanka (poetry) which currently redirects to this article. My proposal is to populate it by moving the majority of the content of this article there. There are numerous poetry-related articles wikilinking the word tanka to this article, which would be better directed to an article specifically about that topic. There are 22 articles on the topic of Tanka (poetry) in other-language WPs - see the language-list on the left of the Dutch article.
Is there any down-side to my proposal? I can't think of any negatives, but I'd be pleased to hear other editors' views. Thanks for all input. --gråb whåt you cån (talk) 11:02, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Support a dedicated article on tanka. This article should still briefly mention what tankaa are. bamse (talk) 21:26, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Nine months later and I'm getting back to this now. It's a bigger job than I anticipated, and the preparatory work I did last year has now been superseded so I'd have to restart from scratch. I'm now thinking it might be better and simpler just to move this article to Tanka (poetry), then tidy a little to move the non-tanka waka details to ==History==. Thoughts? --gråb whåt you cån (talk) 14:22, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: In the absence of dissent I've gone ahead with that move, and reordered sections accordingly. Nothing of substance has been removed. --gråb whåt you cån (talk) 00:07, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposal to split article

message: In this edit an IP editor changed a subsection title from "Medieval" to "Kamakura to Muromachi Periods" with the edit summary, "There is no such thing as a "medieval" period in Japanese history. That term is used to refer to European history". While I've no objection tot he edit, since it results in greater precision, the argument is false. Such eminent scholars as Haruo Shirane and Steven D. Carter make use of the term in reference to waka. --gråb whåt you cån (talk) 12:33, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  No "medieval" period in Japanese history? 

message: See Talk:tanka where a related requested move is occurring -- 76.65.131.248 (talk) 22:42, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Related requested move 

message: There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Tanka which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RMCD bot 08:46, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Move discussion in progress

message: It would depend on what is meant by "form", but the 5-7-5-7-7 tanka and 5-7-5-7-...-5-7-7 chouka (and others) were both well established long before the Kojiki and Man'youshuu were compiled, and Empress Saimei reigned long before both of them anyway.
Additionally, the Kojiki contains what are usually considered to be the oldest waka. Even if one considers the mythological explanations for the origins of these poems to be unlikely, there are many waka in the Kojiki that have attributed dates going back as far as anything in the Man'youshuu.
elvenscout742 (talk) 16:17, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Small edits to "History" section 

message: I'm not entirely sure of the history behind this article getting moved back and forth, and why the current article here is basically just a waka article under the wrong name. But to avoid historical anachronism, most of the "history" content here should be moved into a new article under the name Waka. The other forms of waka also deserve either their own articles, or to be categorized under waka, but not under "tanka". It is historically inaccurate, but at least there is a logical precedent for discussing pre-modern 5-7-5-7-7 poems under the title Tanka; there is no justification for chōka and so on to be listed here, however. My most recent edit to the article made the wording better, but they really don't belong here at all.
I noticed this problem at just the right time, honestly. I'm going on holiday from today for about a week, and probably won't be coming near Wikipedia. I'm going to leave this notice here now, and if no one has any problems I will start work on fixing it after I get back.
I know there is a history here, and I don't want to step on any toes in this regard, so if there is a problem with making the proposed changes can someone clarify it for me? Otherwise, I will be bold. :D
elvenscout742 (talk) 05:04, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: No problem with that proposal. However, Waka already exists as a dab page (with a lot more content than at Tanka), so it'll be . --gråb whåt you cån (talk) 09:14, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Any problems with making a new article at ''{{noredirect|Waka}}''? 

message: I am going to remove both of the external links from this page. My reasoning is as follows:
(1) Neither of them meet WP:ELYES, since they are directly linked not to the topic of this article but to the Hyakunin Isshu and to waka, which is theoretically different from tanka.
(2) Neither of them provide any significant, relevant information that could not be incorporated into the body of the article with the ELs cited as sources.
(3) While the Hyakunin Isshu is essentially a textbook of waka composition for the late-classical/early-medieval period, it is only relevant to the content of this article because this article still erroneously lumps classical waka (of all shapes and sizes) under the term "tanka". (I haven't abandoned my prior commitment to one day make a separate article at Waka (poetry).)
(4) The only potentially copyrighted material in the Hyakunin Isshu link is the English translations, which can easily be substituted with, say, one of the public-domain English translations, a simple, non-poetic gloss, or an original translation. (I know the latter might violate WP:NOR, but honestly the text is so widely known and studied, and the individual poems are so short, and they have all been translated into English so many times, that any "original" translation can be easily verified in reliable English-language sources, let alone Japanese ones.)
Since it may be appropriate to reincorporate the links as sources here or elsewhere, I am posting them here for future reference.
*Ogura Hyakunin Isshu – 100 Poems by 100 Poets at University of Virginia Library Japanese Text Initiative
* 2001 Waka for Japan 2001 translated by T. E. McAuley of the School of East Asian Studies at the University of Sheffield.
elvenscout742 (talk) 03:47, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I was going to add the Hyakunin Isshu EL to a more relevant page, but it was already there. elvenscout742 (talk) 03:50, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of external links 

message: I have added a dubious tag to the two Simply Haiku sources cited for the statement that the term waka is used to distinguish from kanshi. Both of these sources are by apparently reliable academic authors who specialize in the field, but the publication itself is clearly not specialist in tanka. The Rimer source is an interview, which seems a bit inappropriate for a simple definition/etymology of a word, and having two sources for this is excessive. Additionally, the only reference to kanshi in the Wright source seems to actually contradict this sentence as it appears in the article, since it states quite specifically that "waka" covers "all kinds of Japanese poems in contrast to the kanshi" -- this includes renga. I think that the only reason we need a source for this simple definition/etymology at all is if we are going to include a citation on every single line of the article (not a bad idea, really); two sources from a non-specialist poetic publication seems dubious.
I'm at work now and can't check volume 1 of Keene, but a simple dictionary definition really only needs a simple dictionary reference, am I right?  says for waka:  I'll check Kōjien at lunch.
elvenscout742 (talk) 02:11, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dubious 

message: I believe that site is fake either because it was hacked or because it was never safe in the first place. I suggest deleting it immediately.
Fdezcaminero (talk) 03:53, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tanka Teacher's Guide (External link)