Talk:Maimonides

message: An editor created a section called "Views" with the only subsection "Circumcision". This is the content, moved here for comments:
:Moses Maimonides states that the purpose of circumcision is to weaken the male organ, without preventing the functions necessary to reproduction, but reducing pleasure and desire. Sages at the time had recognized that the foreskin heightened sexual pleasure. Maimonides reasoned that the bleeding and loss of protective covering rendered the penis weakened and in so doing had the effect of reducing a man's lustful thoughts and making sex less pleasurable. He also warned that it is "hard for a woman with whom an uncircumcised man has had sexual intercourse to separate from him."
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Maimonides had many views on many things, and we can't use this article to enumerate every single opinion. His opinion on the reason for circumcision sounds old-fashioned to modern ears, but I actually doubt that he was alone in holding of this view. I've therefore moved it here for now. JFW | T@lk 19:43, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Obviously everyone has many views on many things, but their important views should be mentioned in their wikipedia articles; like in this article and this one and this one and this one  and this one and many other articles in wikipedia. circumcision is an important topic, especially when it comes from a Jewish philosopher and it's definitely interesting for the readers to know about a Jewish philosopher's views on circumcision. his view on circumcision must be mentioned in this article, maybe it would be better if we change the section name to "Views on circumcision". Armin1718 (talk) 09:50, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  I also don't see why this should have a special section, or any mention at all. Maimonides published several large books of his views on every Jewish subject under the sun. This one is no different and should be removed. MikeR613 (talk) 03:53, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Restored as there is no consensus for removal. We can add other views as suggested.Pngeditor (talk) 11:59, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Addition 

message: The sentence "On his tomb is inscribed "From Moses to Moses there was none like Moses"." can easily be verified by googling pictures from his grave. It is also mentioned here: https://he.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1187235. Debresser (talk) 22:31, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Googling is straight up WP:ORthat's irrelevant. Nor is this inscription easily verified to those who don't read Hebrew. I've no objection to the inscription being included, but per WP:ONUS information needs to be sourced. Pipsally (talk) 06:57, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Reading text on a picture in the public domain is not WP:OR. In any case, there is the other source as well. I meantioned the picture more as a way to check the WP:TRUTH than as a WP:RS. Debresser (talk) 21:28, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

text: I've moved this from the lead to the section on death, where it was absent. The lead is a summary and should summarize material present in the body, and certainly not contain material that is unreliable supported. More generally, this material was undue in the lead. Quotes are only rarely due in the lead, and this quote is not even about Maimonides, but Moses. Iskandar323 (talk) 06:28, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tomb inscription 

message: This section is not informative and it's missing sources. I removed it and copied the contents below for discussion:
It was always known that some plants or substances kill. Citing that from Maimonides adds nothing particular about his contribution to the knowledge of poisons and death.
=== On poisons and death ===
In a separate work recently translated from Arabic, Maimonides warns against lethal drugs which he calls poisons. According to this work these poisons will cause the most severe apathies, and the decay of the human being's vigor right up to death.Maimonides, On Poisons and the Protection against Lethal Drugs – PART OF THE MEDICAL WORKS OF MOSES MAIMONIDES Brigham Young University Press – Provo, Utah (USA) 2009 ; which specific drugs are called poisons by him would still need to be culled off from the book. Nahum Neharkaspi (talk) 18:29, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  On poisons and death section 

message: In a separate work recently translated from Arabic, Maimonides warns against lethal drugs which he calls poisons. According to this work these poisons will cause the most severe apathies, and the decay of the human being's vigor right up to death.Maimonides, On Poisons and the Protection against Lethal Drugs – PART OF THE MEDICAL WORKS OF MOSES MAIMONIDES Brigham Young University Press – Provo, Utah (USA) 2009 ; which specific drugs are called poisons by him would still need to be culled off from the book. Nahum Neharkaspi (talk) 18:29, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  On poisons and death 

message: This is because Judah HaNasi was a descendent of King David. Drsruli (talk) 23:54, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that King David never really existed as a flesh and bone person like perhaps you and me. It is all just myth. But never mind. warshy (¥¥) 15:51, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Maimonides is sometimes said to be a descendant of King David, although he never made such a claim." 

message: (1) There is no mention of Asaph in the cited source []. This should be deleted.
(2) Why single out al-Ghazali here, when - if he had any positive influence at all (debatable) - it was much less than al-Farabi and Avicenna. 81.5.59.36 (talk) 09:25, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: If there is no mention of Asaph in the source, then the text should not mention him, unless other sources attest to that. Al-Ghazali, the contemporary consensus is, was an influence on Maimonides (less so than al-Farabi and Avicenna certainly,) though he is never explicitly named. So he should be retained, and if the passage worries you, note the other, major influences. We shouldn't be citing compendia, but the scholarship.Nishidani (talk) 19:47, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: The Stanford reference speculates on Al-Ghazali's influence without explaining the extent and significance. Since Al-Ghazali's "The Incoherence of the Philosophers" is an attack on Hellenic philosophy while Maimonides defends Aristotle (as does Averroes who attacks Al-Ghazali in his "Tahafut al-Tahafut (Incoherence of the Incoherence). Maimonides & Averroes are rationalistic while Al-Ghazali is Islam's defender of mysticism. Without some explanation of the manner and scope of Al-Ghazali's influence this is confusing. In addition other articles on Maimonides have no mention of Al-Ghazali's influence suggesting it may be minor or with respect to particular issues. Most writers look for al-Farabi's influence. Jason from nyc (talk) 16:52, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Influences 

message: @Ideophagous Please read all of the sources that I put on the Kunya page. It is crucial to understand that words can shift in meaning and also that you should expect, when reading a Medieval text in a foreign dialect, to encounter familiar words used in surprising ways. It will be impossible to accurately read anything composed more than a few decades in the past or a few miles away if you insist that your personal experience dictates the complete semantic range of every word you encounter. In this case the common word "Abu" was abstracted into a marker indicating the kunya form. "Abu" went from meaning "father of" to meaning "this phrase is of the type which commonly expresses a paternal relationship". Similarly, in English, many modern surnames take the form [profession]+son or [quality]+son. This is because the patronymic suffix lost its initial meaning ("son of") and became instead a suffix which indicated a surname ("this phrase is of the type which commonly expresses a filial relationship"). Because all the word "abu" indicates is that the phrase is a kunya, we need to rely on context to translate it in every case. Context says that Abu Yusuf Yaqub is "Jacob father of Joseph", Abu Imran Musa is "Moses son of Amram", Abu Harun Musa is "Moses brother of Aaron", and Abu Al-Afiya Musa is "Moses the Healthy". Medieval Jewish Arabic speakers themselves indicate the meaning quite clearly when the they translate it to בן עמרם in Hebrew (if you don't read Hebrew, the cognate of "ibn Imran") with regard to Maimonides, Abu Imran al-Fasi, etc. But really you should just read the sources, which are quite clear that the word abu does not mean "father" in these cases. GordonGlottal (talk) 19:05, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello @GordonGlottal. Thank you for the detailed clarification. I still think the phrasing of that sentence was terrible, and should have been clarified better, just as you did above, because any reader who knows Arabic and is not aware of your explanation, will immediately think the translation is incorrect, and want to change it (or think Wikipedia editors don't know what they're doing). Perhaps "abu" in that context is more like "of" or "related to" rather than "father of". The example of "Abu Al-Afiya Musa" you put in the edit comment is a good one, since it clearly shows the actual usage of "abu" in this context ("Abu Al-Afiya" = "(possessor) of health", certainly not "father of health"). Maybe in the text you can put "son" between parentheses, to highlight that it's not a literal translation of "abu", i.e. "Moses (son) of Amram". Have a good morning/day/evening! Ideophagous (talk) 19:21, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Abu Imran 

message: Would it be possible to add the rambams birthday in the hebrew calendar equivalent of "Nissan 14, 4895" 24.117.115.148 (talk) 19:46, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rambams Birthday  

message: In this phrase:
 on Passover eve 1138 (or 1135)[d], until
Please remove the parentheses; the phrase makes perfect sense without them. 123.51.107.94 (talk) 01:48, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Charliehdb (talk) 10:28, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 May 2024 

message: In this sentence:
 Aside from being revered by Jewish historians, Maimonides also figures very prominently in the history of Islamic and Arab sciences and he is mentioned extensively in studies.
please remove "and he is mentioned extensively in studies".  It's such a vague statement (what kind of "study" is meant?) that I can't see any part of the article that it summarises (MOS:INTRO), and it sounds interpolated.  It breaks up the discussion of Islamic scholars, who (except for Aristotle) compose the rest of the paragraph. 123.51.107.94 (talk) 02:03, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Charliehdb (talk) 10:30, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 May 2024 (2) 

message: Second paragraph in lead is written a little flowery imo; while not explicitly MOS:EDITORIAL, it can be worded plainer and more encyclopedic. 104.232.119.107 (talk) 00:44, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flowery writing in lead