Talk:Waltzing Matilda

message: officially recognised "National Song" . This sounds like a statement of fact. Is this verified anywhere? Graham Chapman — Preceding undated comment added 15:51, 25 February 2002 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course it's not... but it IS one of the most widely recognised songs in the world :) btw, why can't the lyrics be quoted? Banjo Patterson wrote the darned thing, and he died almost a hundred years ago. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Karen Johnson (talk • contribs) 00:05, 17 September 2002 (UTC)
thread_title:  Officially recognised? 

message: I've put the full text of Waltzing Matilda into the article. I can't see why the lyrics can't be quoted, it says right there in the article that no copyright has ever applied on it. I also fixed the "national song" - it's a folk song, and has no official status, despite its popularity. I also reworded the final words of the first paragraph, to remove ambiguity and highlight the fact that Advance Australia Fair is actually the current National Anthem. - User:Mark Ryan — Preceding undated comment added 14:09, 5 December 2002 (UTC)
thread_title: Full text

message: Don't you think it's worth mentioning that Tom Waits did an interpretation of the song which was probably the first time people outside Anglo-Saxon world (like myself) got to hear it, and which I still think is a great piece of music? User:Jakob Stevo — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.199.129.118 (talk) 11:25, 2 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I think so.  I will add it to the article. CyborgTosser 03:55, 15 June 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: The Tom Waits song, 'Tom Traubert's Blues (Four Sheets To The Wind In Copenhagen)', is more of an 'inspired by' than a strict cover; it combines the chorus of WM with a lot of original material. See lyrics here' for some idea of its nature. I've clarified the entry accordingly.--Calair 00:09, 23 August 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Tom Waits interpretation

message: Removed the following section:
:On Channel 7 on Saturday, 31 December 2005 at 11:55PM, Waltzing Matilda was sung with a slight modification of the words. Rather than saying 'once a jolly swagman camped by a billabong', the words jolly and Chinese were changed, hence 'once a Chinese swagman camped by a billabong'. The song was sung by a white Australian and intentions have not yet been understood, whether it was accidental, or to build links between China and Australia, as Australia did integrate Chinese lion-dancing in their 2005 end-of-year festival in Melbourne.
I'm not sure this is terribly significant. --Robert Merkel 05:23, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Explanation of removal

message: An obituary of Richard Magoffin in The Times has some interesting details.  His books sound like decent sources for pinning this article down a little. -- ALoan (Talk) 15:14, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Richard Magoffin

message: What about Matilda no more, which is a song sung by Slim Dusty? I believe like "And the band played Waltzing Matilda", it deserves a mention. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.6.1.178 (talk) 22:41, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: To be sure - why don't you include it? Slac speak up! 23:34, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Matilda no more 

message: The article begins, "Waltzing Matilda" is Australia's most widely known song. Is there any evidence for that claim? I propose rewording that sentence, e.g. by inserting the word possibly. Rocksong 00:48, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Australia's most widely known song? 

message: Is the following extract from The Last Continent by Terry Pratchett worthy of a mention under the 'Covers and derivative works' section? It can be found at the beginning of a section approximately three-fifths of the way through the book (page 248 of the Corgi paperback edition ).
"Once a moderately jolly wizard camped by a dried-up waterhole under the shade of a tree that he was completely unable to identify. And he swore as he hacked and hacked at a can of beer, saying, 'What kind of idiots put beer in tins?'"
John — Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.246.2.148 (talk) 08:09, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Waltzing Matilda reference in a Terry Pratchett work. 

message: As IP address above mentions, the correct spelling is "coolabah".  But it seems that Banjo Patterson didn't know that.  The manuscript to which I refer isn't overly legible, but it definitely writes "coolibah".  Groogle 04:29, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Coolibah or Coolabah?

message: This entire section was added by User:Just nigel on 15-Nov. Though I'd agree with some of it, this section should cite a source, or be considered Wikipedia:Original Research and removed. Rocksong 04:47, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I actually came here to point out what he wrote is accurate and needs no source. You can't really find a source to support the claim that Australian's like the historical terms and that nobody else knows what the hell these mean. Just take our word for it ? Attriti0n 09:32, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Song's Appeal  

message: As an Australian I find the term "hobo" and it's connotations offensive. I believe that the term "swagman" is better defined as an itinerant and vagrant. Also, by using the term "hobo" analogically, one assumes an American only reader. With due respect to the author. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.177.66.32 (talk) 22:35, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point. I've removed it. Rocksong 23:08, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Agreed, I heard that Waltzing Matilda meant hanging because when someone is hanged they kick their legs like they are dancing.Chuangzu (talk) 17:03, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Swagman = Hobo? 

message: Waltzing Matilda is mentioned (and made fun of) in the Austrailia section of America the Book. Do you think it's worth mentioning in the article? --Fez2005 06:30, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  America the Book 

message: Waltzing Matilda isn't a folk song, as it was written by an established poet, Banjo Patterson. I was going to put this in the article, but i'm sure it would get reverted. Anyone have an opinion on this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dinny McGee (talk • contribs) 04:55, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's sung and regarded as a song, not a poem. Not sure what distinction you are referring to here.Attriti0n 08:48, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Folk Song? 

message: this article is great but it's desperately in need of references... I'm sure there are many, if there is a museum on it? — Demong talk 02:09, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  references 

message: This bit needs attention: "The song was falsely copyrighted by an American publisher in 1941 as an original composition. However, no copyright applies in Australia." I'd fix it myself, but don't know how. It says the song was mis-appropriated by someone, and implies the copyright was honored in the U.S., but it doesn't say who did it, or give any details other than the year.This assertion definately needs citation at the very least, and hopefully a bit more detail. Could someone who knows the topic please address this? Or remove it, if it can't be verified? --Loqi T. 19:17, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There's discussion of this at Roger Clarke's Waltzing Matilda page referenced in the article (http://www.anu.edu.au/people/Roger.Clarke/WM/Copyright.html). The whole story is convoluted, but Carl Fischer New York Inc. claims copyright on the most popular arrangement of the tune (Marie Cowan's 1903 Sydney arrangement) until 2011. Oddly enough, Richard Magoffin (referred to on the above site) was able to register a copyright in the U.S. on the original arrangement of the tune (by Christina Macpherson, ca. 1895) in 1987! Presumably these copyrights could not withstand serious legal challenge, but also presumably no one has felt the inclination to make such a challenge. Mahousu (talk) 00:46, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

text: Australia now follows America and Europe with a seventy not fifty year period from death for copyright So the 70 year period is not odd or abnormal, although different from the question of whether they should have got copyright anyway! Hugo999 (talk) 22:01, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyright 

message: Before I go adding what has been taken away before (as I've been known to do from time to time!), is there any reason that the article doesn't mention the existence of two separate tunes, depending on which part of Australia you live in?
To whit: Some parts the chorus says "Waltzing Matilda, Matilda my darling," whereas elswhere it is "Waltzing Matilda, Waltzing Matilda, who'll come a Waltzing Matilda with me?"  —Preceding unsigned comment added by SwordBrother777 (talk • contribs) 14:37, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The "my darling" chorus is mentioned in the "Variations" section, although it implies that the version is no longer sung. If, indeed, it is common in parts of Australia, it would be great if mentioned there. - DavidWBrooks 15:11, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

text: The "matilda my darling" chorus is sung to the quite different and (IMO) much more beautiful Queensland tune. The Queensland tune is known all over Australia although less sung, presumably because it is harder to belt out. The Queensland tune was given to Australian poet and folklorist John Manifold by one ""John O'Neill of Buderim, Queensland". (The Penguin Australian Somgboook,1964 (reprint 1977), page 175 Compiled by JS Manifold)/ It'd be good to ahve more info on this version. I don't if the history if any of the Queensland tune is known. -Jeremytrewindixon not signed in. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.115.111.143 (talk) 12:28, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Two tunes 

message: With reference to the original poem as listed at http://kids.niehs.nih.gov/lyrics/matilda.htm and from some topical radio broadcasts from the ABC in Victoria, Australia, I believe that the reference to the boiling billy came AFTER the poem was used as a promo for Billy Tea. The original Banjo poem did not use a boiling billy. So although the promo "jingle" version is the one everyone associates with, the original only refers to billabongs...
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.1.52.44 (talk)  07:55, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Boiling Billy Reference 

message: As with the discussion over at the Whiskey in the Jar article, I question whether the lyrics should be reproduced in this article.  The policy WP:Do not include copies of primary sources indicates that they should not be, and, since they are available at Wikisource, why reproduce them here?  Any thoughts? ---RepublicanJacobiteThe'FortyFive' 16:11, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lyrics II

message: Has anyone ever recast the tune to 3/4 time?  After all, shouldn't "Waltzing Matilda" be a waltz?  Rammer (talk) 06:51, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It has been, and (IMO) it sounds horrible. "To waltz" in this context, means to hike, so 4/4 time is more appropriate. Grutness...wha? 11:37, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why not a waltz? 

message: i graduated in 04, and i remember getting these songbooks we sang from in 3rd and 4th grade with a wide array of interesting songs, this being one of them
anyone know anything about htese? Murakumo-Elite (talk) 08:04, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  what series of school music books was this book in? 

message: I suppose it's meant to be in E♭ major (the flat signs are a bit off), but what's with the rhythm? If you take the note values literally it's very uneven. Is it supposed to be in 4/4 and the notation is unorthodox, or what?--87.162.10.146 (talk) 17:37, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: There's a transcription of the Macpherson version which is more in line with the requirements of standard music notation at Waltzing Matilda the musical – Christina MacPherson. The first two lines of the chorus (starting at bar 9 to the words "Who'll come a waltzin' Matilda my darling, // Who'll come a waltzin' Matilda with me?") are meant in 3/4 time but not notated that way here. A more familiar version of the melody and score can be found at SibeliusMusic.com (requires Scorch plugin). -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 03:57, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  original score 

message: The Irish folk band The Pogues have a version of this song...Youtube video HERE. It was released on the album "RUM, SODOMY AND THE LASH" in 1985.  I don't know if this is a cover of another song, but it would be worth looking into, since (In my opinion), they are a very influential band.
Kevinmo1 (talk) 23:13, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Pogues 

message: What is the provenance of the usual melody?  Odd question, I know, just thought I'd ask.  It should be mentioned in the intro, thanks.CountMacula (talk) 12:29, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a bit complicated and mentioned in the first section, "History of the song". -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 13:26, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Then that should be stated in the intro.CountMacula (talk) 01:09, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: That's why I wrote "It's a bit complicated"; it doesn't lend itself to a concise wording in the lead. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 15:09, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

text: "Song" refers to lyrics.  I am talking about the melody.CountMacula (talk) 01:11, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm counting 5 occurrences of "tune" and "play[ed]" in the section Waltzing Matilda#Writing of the song, 3 "band", 4 "music", 1 "composing"/"composed" each, and 1 "melody". That section seems to explain the origin of the tune quite comprehensively. But, this is Wikipedia and you should improve its shortcomings. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 15:09, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Whence the melody? 

message: See this Talk:Slim Dusty discussion from 2007 and this 2003 ABC News article that gives the same wrong year as AusGeo for the broadcast (1983 instead of 1981), in addition to making the false claim that Slim Dusty "was the first singer to have his voice beamed from space" with no further qualifiers (easily refuted, e.g. the earliest satellite TV broadcast was two decades earlier, in 1962).
From the 2007 discussion, it appears the earliest known sources for this claim are:
* an interview with Slim Dusty's wife in a children's DVD (It's a Wiggly Wiggly World from 2000).
* Slim Dusty's own website, which contained the information then, and to this day states:
::Slim received Australia’s first ever Gold Record in 1958, for “A Pub With No Beer”, and was the first singer in the world to have his voice beamed to earth from space, when his version of “Waltzing Matilda” was beamed to earth.
Note the near identical phrasing to the 2003 ABC News article. One of these texts used the other as a source! The Internet Archive confirms that the text was present on Slim Dusty's website before 2003, so it was ABC News that copied from his personal website.
All these sources are completely wrong in stating that this was the first broadcast from space without qualifications (such as "from an astronaut" or "from a space shuttle") and also get other facts wrong (such as the year of the broadcast). Considering the sources above, there is no reasonable basis to believe the claim, not to mention including it as encyclopedic fact. The claim is just bogus--maybe some kind of misunderstanding that occurred at one point or another. This is where the 2014 AusGeo article comes in and provides a cop out; it reads:
:: In 1983 the late country-and-western singer Slim Dusty’s rendition became the first song to be broadcast to Earth by astronauts. [emphasis mine]
With this qualifier, "by astronauts," the claim becomes, at least theoretically, plausible. Though it is still not very likely, because of the many earlier manned missions (e.g. SkyLab 1973-74 had reproduction equipment on board). So how much trust should we put in the AusGeo article?
* It gives the same wrong year (1983), indicating that it used one of the sources above that make the bogus claim.
* Its subject (bush ballads) is very tangential to space achievements, so the author likely didn't have any expertise nor conduct serious research on the space-related claim.
* It appears to be the first (and only?) article to add the additional qualifier ("by astronauts"). This is some 15 years after the original claim surfaced in Wikipedian-attested discussions and the children's DVD. This indicates that, if anything, the qualifier was added accidentally or perhaps as an afterthought by a lazy author/editor, realizing the absurdity of the claim without it. It makes no sense to take it seriously, if it was added in 2014 by AusGeo.
* We can see contemporary news sources taking note of the broadcast (1981 UPI article) but without mentioning it being a first of any kind.
I hope these points make it clear that we should not trust the 2014 article at all. We should consider the original sources and the original claim as published. And, as it turns out, we can easily refute the original claim.
The claim is present on Slim Dusty and Waltzing Matilda and I am wondering if Michael or others still have objections to removing it? If we are split 1:1, I hope a third Wikipedian can consider the arguments.
-- Glimz (talk) 15:03, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for you research, Glimz. It seems that the claim as stated is not supported by evidence. Still, the fact of the 1981 transmission seems worth mentioning in the article, omitting "the first"; I suggest:  The citation of the Australian Geographic is not needed. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 02:44, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, that's even better. I changed the resp. sentences in both articles. -- Glimz (talk) 15:01, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: More research on space broadcast claim: it's false

message: In the tv show JAG, in season 5 episode 14 Waltzing Matlida's first verse and chorus are sung by the main cast to see off their Australian colleague. Is this a significant enough use to be included in the Covers and Derivatives section?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Scottish Baconator (talk • contribs) 03:22, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: That depends on whether a reliable source exists for the song's use in JAG (season 5), and whether that use was notable enough to be covered elsewhere. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 06:21, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use in JAG 

message: It seems a bit far fetched, but is it possible Australian troops headed for South Africa were teased with 'Streets of Rochester' because it refers to military hero Marlborough after which a British oceanic Outpost was named.Tradimus (talk) 15:56, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Alternative explanation

message: The article refers to the term Waltzing as a period a craftsman spends travelling (named 'Wandergesellen'. Usually on foot with minimal expenses) and acquiring further skills as part of their path to become a "Meister" (master craftsman). What is missing there is that the term "Mathilda" has a special meaning in this context.
"Mathilda" is a well known term to them and it refers to "the road" the craftsman travels. It is regarded as their patron saint that can sustain them, but also teach them harsh lessons. 
Sources:
Google Books https://books.google.com.au/books?id=EdRYBQAAQBAJ&lpg=PT166&ots=HnRmv2FpQc&dq=auf%20der%20waltz%20%22mathilda%22&pg=PT166#v=onepage&q=auf%20der%20waltz%20%22mathilda%22&f=false
Spiegel Artikel "Jeder Tag ist ein neues Abenteuer" https://www.spiegel.de/start/auf-die-walz-gehen-eine-tischlerin-berichtet-von-ihrer-wanderschaft-a-b9ab5369-5fd8-4190-b36a-cad1ef3318c7
Question: are links to references in German languages ok in the article?
Stephanmeyn (talk) 20:53, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Non-English references are allowed, but English sources are preferred. See WP:NOENG for more information. DonIago (talk) 20:59, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  German Source of the term "Matilda" 

message: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EMzEWpKKOZs
It is the theme music for the movie "On the Beach" about the end of the world from nuclear fallout. 2600:1700:5FA1:54F0:1C50:C5C1:AF5E:AE5E (talk) 20:04, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: If you're suggested this be mentioned in the article, you'll need a secondary source that discusses it, per WP:IPCV. DonIago (talk) 00:48, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sad version