Talk:HMAS Onslow

message: How about a reference to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line-crossing_ceremony#Controversy?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.40.46.84 (talk) 08:54, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: How about...

message: The later versions of the Shaddocks were anti-shipping missiles and were carried by Juliett class submarines and possibly tested on Whiskey class submarines - I'm not quite sure of the timing, but I'd suspect they predate the UGM-86 on the Oberons? In the depths of the Cold War, it might have been good propaganda, and Western sources might not have been aware of the capabilities of Soviet missiles, the Shaddocks were a source of particular confusion to NATO. Le Deluge (talk) 10:12, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: All I know is what the sources tell me. If you can find a source that disputes the claim made in the article, I'd be happy to alter the statement as necessary. -- saberwyn 21:45, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You'll probably have to go to Russian sources for a definitive answer, as I mentioned NATO got very confused about the Shaddocks (the SS-N-3c predated the SS-N-3a and the Soviets regarded them as completely separate designs), but here's one source which may be regarded as the official US Navy take on the history - that the anti-shipping variant of the Shaddock tested in 1963, and that the Julietts only ever carried it rather than the land attack version. So that would imply the Julietts beat the Onslow by two decades.  I think I'd prefer the wording "first Western sub with ASMs", although I guess you could twist it into something like "first diesel hunter-killer with ASMs" or "first diesel to fire ASMs through torpedo tubes". Le Deluge (talk) 09:32, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: More confusion - I've just looked at the main Oberon class article, which says "HMAS Ovens became only the second conventional submarine in the world—and the first Oberon—to fire a sub-surface-launched Harpoon". I leave that to you to sort out. :-)) Le Deluge (talk) 09:36, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That's not necessarily contradictory: this article says that Onslow was the first to be fitted with missiles and the Oberon article says that Ovens was the second conventional sub to be fitted with missiles and the first sub to fire them. Nick-D (talk) 10:21, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Ovens was the first Oberon to fire, there seems to have been a non-Oberon that fired the first Harpoon from an SSK. See eg the HNSA "In 1986 [Ovens] had the distinction of being the second conventional submarine in the world to fire a Harpoon anti-ship missile. This occurred off the island of Kauai in Hawaii in 1985". And then the HNSA article on Onslow says "During its major refit in 1982-84 and after successful test firings by HMAS Otway on the Pacific missile firing range in Hawaii, Onslow was fitted with sub-Harpoon missiles - becoming the first conventionally powered (non-nuclear) submarine in the world with an anti-ship missile capability." So "Onslow was the first to be fitted" claim seems to mean "first operational patrol with UGM-84" or some such - although as previously mentioned, the SS-N-3c's on the Julietts make this discussion a bit moot in the global sense. Le Deluge (talk) 11:16, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: First SSG

message: Cleaning out my userspace...here are some sources that I've identified as potentially being of use for this article's development.
* Historic Naval Ships Visitors Guide (at worldcat) - Guide to over 170 museum ships worldwide...may include Onslow
* http://www.jstor.org/stable/4126405 - Includes list of all known museum/preserved submarines as of 2004
* Cockatoo Island, by John Jeremey
* Getting in Early: Lessons of the Collins Submarine Program for Improved Oversight of Defence Procurement - Government reseach paper, mentions the Carl Vinson story
-- saberwyn 07:07, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Potential sources for future expansion 

message: The opening section of this article makes a number of points, none of which are sourced. Even if later in the article the sources are present when mention occurs again, they should be added to this opening section too. Antarctic-adventurer (talk) 05:36, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia:LEAD#Citations says that "Because the lead will usually repeat information also in the body, editors should balance the desire to avoid redundant citations in the lead with the desire to aid readers in locating sources for challengeable material". At the time it was originally written, I thought no cites in the lead would be fine, as all the information is repeated and cited in the body, but following this request, I've gone and added cites to all the statements in the middle paragraph of the lead (which probably fall under various levels of 'challengable'). -- saberwyn 08:23, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Saberwyn, thanks for your reply. Thanks for linking the relevant wikipedia guidelines on sources in the lead as well, as I hadn't read that for a while. Antarctic-adventurer (talk) 11:30, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opening section contains no sources 

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thread_title:  External links modified