Talk:Israeli–Lebanese conflict

message: Hi I am not saying categorically that this is false but is there actually any hard evidence of this? The BBC article simply asserts it. I have never seen any actual evidence that Iran funds and arms this organisation only assertions from neo-cons. Now it may be true! But it would be good to cite an academic source rather than a BBC website to support this claim.   — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.31.33.14 (talk) 10:32, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hizbollah armed and funded by Iran? 

message: This conversation has been moved to Talk:Arab-Israeli conflict by Kendrick7 03:01, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, the militia is Lebanese. What about it? That doesn't change the fact that Lebanon has failed to control them. cacophony ◄► 18:58, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge to [[Arab-Israeli conflict]] 

message: This article is misleading, in that it implies there has been an ongoing, continuous conflict between Israel and Lebanon since 1948. In fact, Lebanon's role in 1948 was minor, Lebanon sat out of the 1967 war, and the Israel-Lebanon border between 1948 and 1968 was quiet (as I understand it, even unguarded). The seeds of the recent conflict lie in post-1968 developments, particularly the "state within a state" created by the PLO and the 1978 and 1982 Israeli invasions which turned the Lebanon Shiites against Israel. What should be done (as suggested by User:Mikkalai) is to rename this article Israeli-Lebanon relations. A model could be Indo-Pakistani relations: that's an example of two countries with "relations" marked by bitter hostility punctuated by several outright wars, yet no one says there is a single "India-Pakistan conflict" going back to 1947. Along with the move, we should change the focus of the article somewhat: summarize the wars but take this out of the Military history Project, and include other important topics like the Israel-Christian alliance. Sanguinalis 04:30, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: <str>The lead is very misleading as it currently stands and needs to be re-written.</str> The internals of the article do cover most of your other points, though I'd appreciate more data on the Isreal-Christian alliance. -- Kendrick7 05:04, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I rewrote the lead. The problems between Israel and Lebanon are, IMHO, a lot more complex that the border dispute over Kashmir, which if it doesn't have its own article probably should, but that's just my two cents. -- Kendrick7 06:36, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

text: True, there had not been continual active shooting war between Israel and Lebanon since 1948. Yet the two countires have been legally at war for all of that time, though for long periods there have been a ceasefire in force and more ot less observed. And are you aware that since 1948 the border beween the two countries has been closed to civilian passage,and that the only Israelis who enetered Lebanon since there is an Israel are soldiers who came on the business of war? An Israeli with an Israeli passaport showing up in Lebanon is an ENEMY by Lebanese law and will be treated accordingly, and the same for a lebanese showing upin Israel. It was like this also in the relatively quiet period between 1948 and 1968. It was not like this, as far as I know, between India and Pakistan. So, I think the term "Israel-Lebanon conflict; is correct. By the way, if you look up the Hundred Years' War you will find considerable periods when the English and french were not actively fighting, but historians regard it all as one long war and I think they are right. Adam keller 19:55, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point. Wikipedia:Recentism comes into play -- no one today would even consider renaming the Hundred Years' War to English-French relations. -- Kendrick7 20:36, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I think it would be prudent to at least follow Sanguinalis' suggestion in part. TewfikTalk 21:55, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move to Israel-Lebanon relations 

message: Another point of view. Has many truth. --195.56.231.17 05:50, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where's the truth? 

message: http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/RWB.NSF/db900SID/EGUA-6RZPCR?OpenDocument
:The crisis started when, around 9 a.m. local time, Hizbollah launched several rockets from Lebanese territory across the withdrawal line (the so-called Blue Line) towards Israel Defense Forces (IDF) positions near the coast and in the area of the Israeli town of Zarit. In parallel, Hizbollah fighters crossed the Blue Line into Israel and attacked an IDF patrol. Hizbollah captured two IDF soldiers, killed three others and wounded two more. The captured soldiers were taken into Lebanon. Subsequent to the attack on the patrol, a heavy exchange of fire ensued across the Blue Line between Hizbollah and IDF: While the exchange of fire stretched over the entire length of the Line, it was heaviest in the areas west of Bint Jubayl and in the Shab'a farms area. Hizbollah targeted IDF positions and Israeli towns south of the Blue Line. Israel retaliated by ground, air and sea attacks.
I hope that this clears up the issue of the Katyushas, TewfikTalk 19:27, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for finding that. As the Washington Post (datelined Beirut) and Haaretz disagree, I'll just quote your above source. This would clarify Hezbollah violated the treaty here. -- Kendrick7 20:18, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I'm just going to use the previous version, with your permission, as it seems to describe accurately the sum of these sentences. TewfikTalk 21:37, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The UN document clearly says Hezbollah was launching rockets toward IDF positions, which happened to be near Israeli towns. I'll try for a compromise, but I think that doc says it better than I could. -- Kendrick7
I'm not sure what you mean: it seems to me that "Hizbollah targeted IDF positions and Israeli towns" means both. It is a separate sentence than that which discusses the "exchange of fire." Let me know... TewfikTalk 22:00, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I don't know if you are replying to my most recent change. I assume this sentence ("Hizbollah targeted IDF positions and Israeli towns") refers to exchanges of gunfire; there is no more compelling reason to assume it refers to rocket attacks. Though exchange of fire is open to interpretation, as I would hope the article would be too. -- Kendrick7 22:09, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Katyushas 

message: I have completely rewritten the lead. Please let me know if you find any of the assertions there unsupported by the cited sections below. -- Kendrick7 04:38, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Kendrick7, good work as usual. I have just two (hopefully) minor issues. You wrote that the Palestinians *left* Israel, but that they were *expelled* from Jordan. While I am sure that there were also voluntary leavings in '48, something to the quality of "fled or were forced to leave" may describe the situation more accurately. IMO, "left" only indicates migration. You also wrote that Israel was "using force in Lebanon in response to militant attacks." When I was researching for the original version, I stumbled upon many sources indicating that militant bases were also attacked by Israel in preemptive strikes, to avoid future attacks. The current version suggests that Israel was exclusively reacting to attacks, which seems to be somewhat inaccurate, too. Cheers. Kosmopolis (talk) 15:06, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't believe I have sufficient cause for relevancy for the motivations of the 1948 refugees to be spelled out in the lead. Someone wishing to learn more will simply have to delve. I'm not too familiar with charges of pre-emption against Israel in this matter. You could say there were responding to the fear of future attacks, but ultimately their fear of future attacks is a response to actual attacks however long in the past. Without definitive treaties or clear violations of such agreements, it's difficult to point to any one incident and say who started it. -- Kendrick7 19:06, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Rewritten lead

message: Newer details on the "crossing the border" ambush:
On July 12, two Israeli Humvees passed within yards of a Hezbollah ambush point. It was a hollow carved in the underbrush, just above the track used by Israeli military patrols. The hidden Hezbollah camp was stocked with food, water, radios, rifles, antitank missiles and diagrams detailing the insignia and size of Israeli military units. The Hezbollah fighters aimed and fired at the Israeli convoy just after 9 a.m. along a remote bend in the fence-lined road.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/20/AR2006102001688.html
194.215.75.17
--
:Thanks! I've started updating Zar'it-Shtula incident with this info. -- Kendrick7 17:16, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Within Yards, Fence-lined Road

message: I think the name should be adjectival: Israeli-Lebanese conflict --TheFEARgod (Ч) 13:40, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Doesn't this disagree with policy? — George Saliba [talk] 17:53, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

text: That's a policy for articles on adjectives, not for using adjectives in article titles. I agree with the move. —Nightstallion (?) 19:39, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Right you are! My mistake. :) Which policy actually deals with whether to use the adjective or noun form in articles such as this one? — George Saliba [talk] 20:03, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

text: it is the same. The current form is only grammatically more correct. --TheFEARgod (Ч) 22:26, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

text: but I concur with you on the political sense, maybe this whole article is a bit incorrect. --TheFEARgod (Ч) 22:30, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Then shouldn't it be the Arabian-Israeli conflict? I really don't see how grammar comes into play here, as much as I dislike inherent disclarity of stringing nouns together in English generally: always reminds me of Brother Francis stumbling across a sign reading "nuclear fallout shelter" and wondering what a fallout was and what it needed shelter from.... -- Kendrick7talk 23:05, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There already is an Arab-Israeli conflict article (Arab being the correct term for someone from Arabia I believe). What a tangled web we weave. By the way, just out of curiosity, why it is grammatically wrong to use nouns when titling events? I was under the impression that the adjective form was only preferred when we didn't have a specific noun to use (i.e., Palestinian due to no nation called Palestine, Arab due to no nation called Arabia). — George Saliba [talk] 23:34, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name 

message: From :
"On July 12, Hezbollah Secretary General Hasan Nasrallah held a press conference carried by Lebanese Hezbollah TV Al Manar:" ... [Nasrallah] ... no shackle will remain in the hands of people in the occupation prisons. Today is the day of loyalty to Samir al-Qintar, Yahya Skaf, Nasim Nisr, and all brothers, detainees, and prisoners in the occupation jails. ... Second, the reason for today's operation was one-upmanship within the enemy government during the previous prisoner exchange. We reached agreement during the previous exchange, according to which Samir al-Qintar, Yahya Skaf, Nasim Nisr, and others would be released, but one-upmanship within the enemy government and the vote taken � you may recall it was 12 to 11 � excluded these men from the deal. The one-upmanship which obstructed that operation led to today's military situation. Today I advise them not to bargain with one another and benefit from all past experiences. ... The operation was originally named "Freedom for Samir Al-Quntar and his brothers" The title was a bit long and they said that from a technical point of view let us shorten it to "True Promise" for the promise was made to Samir and his brothers. I would like to tell Samir and his brothers: You are on the verge of being freed. The question is a question of time. Negotiations, and discussions will be held and we will overcome this difficult stage.
I believe my gloss is accurate. -- Kendrick7talk 18:51, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well I can't see that the quote says their demand is that Samir Quntar must be released. The name of the operation was originally "Freedom for Samir Al-Quntar and his brothers", and the reason for the operation was that Nasrallah claimed that Israel had broken a previous deal to release Quntar and other prisoners. From the same link: "These prisoners that we hold will never go home except in one way: Indirect negotiations and exchange. That is it. No one in this world can return them home, except through indirect negotiations and an exchange." As this article says: "Nasrallah did not specify whose freedom he demanded in exchange for the Israelis -- three Lebanese men held by Israel, or some of the more than 8,000 Palestinian prisoners." I think the wording in 2006_Lebanon_War#Beginning_of_conflict is more accurate.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vints (talk • contribs) 10:07, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The sentence there  says: "Hezbollah named the attack "Operation Truthful Promise" after leader Hassan Nasrallah's public pledges over the prior year and a half to seize Israeli soldiers and swap them for convicted murderer Samir Kuntar, convicted spy Nasim Nisr, Ali Faratan, and Yahya Skaf, whom Hezbollah claims was arrested in Israel (Israel denies this)." Are you quibbling that this isn't a demand for release as much as a demand for a prisoner exchange? I don't see that as a major difference, but I'll change the wording if you'd like. I think your source and my source are clearly covering two different exchanges with Nasrallah; I suspect my source, an interview with Hesbollah's own TV station, was intended for domestic consumption, while yours -- a general press conference -- was intended for more international consumption, where perhaps Nasrallah was purposefully more vague as to which prisoners (Lebanese, Palestinian, perhaps others) he was talking about. Just a theory, but I don't find politicians talking out of both sides of their mouths particularly shocking. -- Kendrick7talk 20:49, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, I'm not quibbling about the difference between demand for release and demand för an exchange. In my opinion, neither 2006 Lebanon War nor Nasrallah's press conference says explicitly whose freedom they demand. Vints (talk) 14:00, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's admitted a gloss, but I don't think I'm reading anything into the text here. Suppose I wrote "My friend Lenny and his fellow countrymen Bruce, and Squiggy are thirsty. I am therefore launching an operation called A Soda Pop for Lenny and his brothers." and then later wrote elsewhere, "This operation has been launched to make some people non-thirsty." Even though someone with only the second note might be mystified as to exactly who those "some people" might be, I don't think, given both writings, there would be any doubt as to exactly who those "some people" are: Lenny, Bruce, and Squiggy, although it isn't "explicit." -- Kendrick7talk 18:42, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It would be better to write about the facts and let the reader draw the conclusions. Vints (talk) 06:49, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a patently obvious conclusion. In an article that's providing an overview of 80 years of history, I'm disinclined to spend a paragraph explaining your personal quibble over semantics; the article doesn't pretend this is an exact quote. At the same time, this demand by Nasrallah is relevant to the article as it ties a lot of the history together. As this speech and this part of the conflict is now a year and a half old, I'll try to find newly published secondary dead-tree sources which reach the same obvious conclusion. Otherwise, I'll file an RFC. In the meantime, please suggest a gloss that would be acceptable to you here. -- Kendrick7talk 18:23, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know if it's correct English but "Hezbollah promptly demanded the release of Lebanese prisoners held by Israel, including Samir Kuntar and an alleged surviving perpetrator of the Coastal Road massacre..." could be changed to "Hezbollah promptly demanded the release of prisoners held by Israel, mentioning Samir Kuntar and an alleged surviving perpetrator of the Coastal Road massacre...". Vints (talk) 07:44, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested quotations 

message: i did it --KAWASAKI (talk) 00:36, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  added casualty and losses  

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thread_title: File:South Lebanon Army Patch.png Nominated for Deletion

message: Firstly, there is no consensus for this edit: find consensus per WP:ONUS before making it. Secondly, your statement that there was no dispute prior to the 21st century is simply wrong. See Shebaa_farms#Territorial_dispute. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 23:12, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: This material has been in the  article for several years, and thus has consensus. If you think the consensus has changed, you nee to show this through discussion. When Other Legends Are Forgotten (talk) 23:15, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:   Not sure what you're talking about. The material was added by an IP just a day or so ago. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 23:20, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: This is disputed by Israel alone, not the rest of the world. FunkMonk (talk) 23:21, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Nonsense. Read teh article. The UN has certified that this area is Syrian territory. When Other Legends Are Forgotten (talk) 23:49, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  As I stated already, the edit was made by an IP, and I simply reverted it, addressing their reason. If you wish to include this, get consensus for it. I will revert it, if you don't. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 23:57, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Characterization of Shebaa farms as Syrian in the lead 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: At the 1982 Lebanon war and Israeli occupation (6 June 1982 – January 1985) section of the article, in the fifth line it says that the Multinational Force in Lebanon is predominantly muslim. This however is not true since the the multi national force is organized and created by the United States and assisted by the forces of (US, France, Italy, UK). Given that, please remove the words "predominantly muslim". Yousifya (talk) 14:01, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Done Luis150902 (talk | contribs) 08:00, 19 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 February 2017 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I suggest that Iran be listed in the infobox as a supporter of the Lebanese side due to Iran's support for Hezbollah during the South Lebanon Conflict from 1985-2000. 165.91.173.181 (talk) 02:12, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. SparklingPessimist Scream at me! 02:36, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 September 2017 

message: would https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/04/world/middleeast/israel-tunnels-lebanon-border-hezbollah.html belong under the "Israel-Hezbollah border clashes
" section? it is called Operation Northern Shield so could link that?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wishfart (talk • contribs) 21:12, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  december 2018 tunnels 

message: There are multiple reports that the missile fired missed its intended target. I provided one such link, but there are numerous others. As such, we can't state in Wikipedia's voice that the vehicle was hit. At most , we can say Hezbollah claimed it was hit, Israel says it was not.
Ynet is not the only source describing the staged medevac as psychological warfare, so there's no need for that attribution. Here come the Suns (talk) 14:20, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  The hits were confirmed by IDF read the article https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-anti-tank-missile-fired-at-northern-israel-from-lebanon/ 
"The military said Hezbollah operatives fired two or three missiles at a battalion headquarters outside of the Israeli community of Avivim and at military vehicles nearby shortly after 4:15 p.m. Sunday. Several of the projectiles struck their targets but did not cause any casualties, despite claims to the contrary by Hezbollah, the IDF said."
"The IDF spokesman said the armored vehicle — a personnel carrier known in Hebrew as a Ze’ev that can hold up to eight people — was destroyed and that the army base outside Avivim was damaged."
Clearly hits. Plain and simple.Mr.User200 (talk) 18:07, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: There is even footage of it now. FunkMonk (talk) 18:11, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: There are multiple reports it missed, and there is footage of a miss, too: https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Security-footage-captures-Hezbollah-missile-narrowly-missing-IDF-vehicle-600481 ; https://www.timesofisrael.com/reports-hezbollah-nearly-missed-manned-armored-car-driving-in-breach-of-orders/.  We can't state in Wikipedia's voice that the vehicle was hit or destroyed, given the conflicting reports. Here come the Suns (talk) 18:26, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

text:  Fine both versions added. No problem. Bring links and sources.Mr.User200 (talk) 18:41, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Feel free to use either of the two links I've already provided. Here come the Suns (talk) 19:20, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: August 2019 events

message: The link to Lebanese Republic in the § World War I and Mandate section should be replaced with a link to Greater Lebanon, as it presently and erroneously redirects to Lebanon.
Thus, my suggested change is to replace this paragraph:
:The largely Christian enclave of the French Mandate became the French-controlled Lebanese Republic in 1926. Lebanon became independent in 1943 as France was under German occupation, though French troops did not completely withdraw until 1946.
with this one:
:The largely Christian enclave of the French Mandate became the French-controlled Lebanese Republic in 1926. Lebanon became independent in 1943 as France was under German occupation, though French troops did not completely withdraw until 1946.
Thank you. 104.246.222.55 (talk) 06:17, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: This is an example of a perfect edit request. Thank you.  07:22, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 August 2021 

message: I think we need to update this article based on the 2023 Israel–Hamas war as Israel is now reportedly striking Lebanese military positions too. Some refs: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-sounds-infiltration-alarm-village-near-lebanon-border-2023-10-13/, https://time.com/6323482/israel-white-phosphorus-gaza-lebanon/ - Indefensible (talk) 17:50, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Needs updating 

message: In section how many people killed please add how many Israel people kidnapped on October 7, 2023, from this source:
https://he.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%94%D7%97%D7%98%D7%99%D7%A4%D7%94_%D7%9C%D7%A2%D7%96%D7%94_(%D7%9E%D7%9C%D7%97%D7%9E%D7%AA_%D7%97%D7%A8%D7%91%D7%95%D7%AA_%D7%91%D7%A8%D7%96%D7%9C) 31.153.107.146 (talk) 20:07, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Wikipedia is not a reliable source. ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me!  23:27, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 January 2024