Talk:Maria Cunitz

message: see edit summary for rest. A category for Silesians should be added.radek (talk) 18:15, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  added sources 

message: Ok, anonymous IPs of various persuasions, how about including ALL the sources and info in the article - something like "Maria Cunitz or Maria Kunicka (etc. etc.) was a Polish-Silesian-German woman astronomer...". Of course "and due to her living as refugee in Poland for a few years now sometimes referred to as Polish Maria Kunicka" is nonsense OR and does not belong. Also not sure what "Literatur" is doing in an English wikipedia. And let's not start an edit war filling up any kind of "Literatur" or "References" or "Źródła"  with refs in various languages to claim her as one thing or another. Also it should be "Eliasz Kreczmar" or "Eliasz Kreczmar von Loewen" if you'd like since "Kreczmar" was his name and "von Loewen" only came later when he got nobilitated. Also the whole thing about the Holy Roman Empire is here, as always, undue.radek (talk) 23:11, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  the usual 

message: She was born in Wohlau, part of the principality of Brieg-Liegnitz-Wohlau, part of Silesia, owned by the emperor of the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation, where she lived till ~1615
Then she came to Schweidnitz, part of the principality of Schweidnitz-Jauer, part of Silesia, owned by the emperor of the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation, where she lived till ~1630
Then she came to Pitschen, part of the principality of Brieg-Liegnitz-Wohlau....
Because of the Thirty Years' War she took refuge in Lubnice NOT Olobok. Here is one of her letters which she send from Lubnice to Hevelius in Danzig.
http://www.olesnica.nienaltowski.net/Kunicka/Ksiazka/Cunitia_Hevelisz.jpg
Now Lubnice is only one km or 1093 yards or 0.62 miles from the Silesian-Polish broder, she lived there only a few years and went back all times to Pitschen, if somethig important had happened
She died in Pitschen. Nothing is known about a written text from her in Polish, her parents came from the Liegnitz area in Silesia.
She and her whole family had nothing to do with Poland.
Today most part of Silesia belonged to Poland - OK, but not during the 17th c.
84.175.236.200 (talk) 09:44, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Please look at the reliable sources provided to back it up. Please don't remove references or referenced text from the article.radek (talk) 09:50, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Please, don't use wrong sources in wikipedia. Do you know the newest book concerning Maria Cunitz: Liwowsky, Einige Neuigkeiten zur Familie der Schlesierin Maria Cunitz, 2008. The author has worked on the family of Maria for many years. He could trace back her ancestors to 1543 and the descendants of her brother to ~1780. See pages 57-58. No Polish people anywhere! Come on - let's slove the little problem: Do you agree that the parents of Maria (Heinrich Cunitius and Maria von Scholz) were born in the Liegnitz area, and Liegnitz was not a part of Poland during the 16th c ? 84.175.191.160 (talk) 05:32, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  How could she be a Polish woman astronomer? 

message: Would anybody know what is the origin of the alternative name spelling "Maria Kunicka"?  When/in what publication did it first appear?
Besides Wikipedia, I was able to find the name "Maria Kunicka" at several web pages, e.g.:
# http://www.pinn.net/~sunshine/czech/poles1.html,
# http://buhlplanetarium2.tripod.com/bio/heveliuse/Stories_of_Women_Stargazers.pdf
# http://www.szlakcysterski.org/?pokaz=obiekty_cysterskie&id=34&zmien_jezyk=en
# http://www.fotw.net/flags/pl-ld-lu.html
# http://astro-forum.org/Forum/index.php?showtopic=21443
# http://www.secretcypher.myzen.co.uk/URBANIA_PAGE.htm
but they all seem to be recent web pages with no references. Hardly a reliable source for an encyclopedia article.
The Polish "Gazeta Wyborcza" (http://wyborcza.pl/1,75476,5850311,Maria__co_patrzyla_w_niebo.html) calls her "Cunitia (also known as Kunic)". The only "Kunicka" in the printed "Encyclopedia PWN" seems to be a singer.
Unless a reliable source for this name is found, I would suggest not to use "Kunicka" in the article head, but instead use her own name spelling, which is Cunitia.
Ephra29 (talk) 22:26, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not an "alternative name" it's her actual name. The sources are included in the article. Please consult them first.radek (talk) 22:40, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: One source: . As the article already states there were several spelling versions of her name, including Kunic.radek (talk) 22:47, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Radek, thank you very much. I reviewed the sources given in the article. They do not include the name "Kunicka" that I can find. Therefore, the above does not give the source for "Kunicka" nor answers the question about the origin of this name. Ephra29 (talk) 22:55, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, I think I see the problem. "Kunic" and "Kunicka" are pretty much equivalent in Slavic languages. One is like "Kunic" and the other like "Miss Kunic" but it's the same thing.radek (talk) 23:11, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  To my understanding of the Polish language rules (old fashioned), a daughter of "Mr. Kunic" would be "Miss Kunicówna".  His wife could be called "Mrs. Kunicowa". "Kunicka" seems to be a female version of the male name "Kunicki". The name "Kunicka" appears to be a recent invention of the astronomy enthusiasts in Poland. We shall not propagate their mistakes in English Wikipedia. Ephra29 (talk) 23:24, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually no or at least not necessarily (there's some weird exceptions in Polish grammar, but they don't apply here). Wife would be "Kunicówna" or "Kunicowa". The daughter (and if this was a son) would be diminutive - which would mean a "-ka" ending (or if it was a son a "-ek" ending - like my name, Rad-ek is the diminutive). So "Kunicka" is "daughter of Kunic". There's no propagation of any mistakes here.radek (talk) 23:39, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: This is incorrect. The ending -owa is used "to form last names of wives from the last names of their husbands when the names end with -a -o or any consonant. For the same purpose, the ending -ina or -yna can also be used, but it is less frequent. [...] The ending -ówna forms the names of daughters from the last names or titles of their fathers. For the same purpose, the ending "-anka" can also be used, but it is less frequent."  Reference: Stanislaw Szober, "Gramatyka Jezyka Polskiego", 11th edition, Panstwowe Wydawnictwo Naukowe, Warszawa, 1969, page 121-122. (my translation from the Polish original). These rules have no connection to the grammatical diminutive in Polish. Ephra29 (talk) 00:17, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: -ka is diminutive so it's a daughter. Remember that these people didn't live in 1969 by which time these practices became standardized. Anyway, I changed it to Kunic.radek (talk) 13:10, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin of the name version "Maria Kunicka" 

message: Looking at the map referenced in the article (]) Silesia is marked as one at the time of Maria's life. Why to keep changing Silesia to Lower Silesia then?  Ephra29 (talk) 02:06, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm fine with Silesia. Someone else is the one who wanted it changed to Lower Silesia.radek (talk) 13:01, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

text: Oh and btw, these old German maps that the anon keeps inserting into these articles are NOT proper references.radek (talk) 13:02, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Silesia]] or [[Lower Silesia]]? 

message: You can't source Wiki articles with other Wiki articles Matthead. And you've been around on Wikipedia long enough to know this. I'd appreciate a self revert here.radek (talk) 13:00, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uhhh... 

message: In that case, why not move the whole article to Maria Cunitia?radek (talk) 18:32, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Radek: the spelling "Cunitz" seems the most often used and recognizable. I think the a page move would not serve an increased recognition of Maria's name. Stan J. Klimas (talk) 23:05, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: But it seems like it to you only! It seems like "Kunic" to me. And in fact that is not what you were arguing earlier - you were saying that Cunitia' should be used because that is what was her (Latin) signature. So move it to Cunitia. It's neutral, isn't it?radek (talk) 23:17, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Move

message: The German Wikipedia cannot be used as a source for the English Wikipedia!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Especially not to source the fact that some names are spelled in German). This is the second time you've done this in the past few days. You've been on Wikipedia since at least Jan 2007 - you know this is not how Wikipedia works. I've already asked you about it once - so you know that now you're just being disruptive. You're already on restriction. Please self revert.radek (talk) 14:17, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Matthead!!! 

message: I try to add a literal translation of a information given by two sources:
*http://d-nb.info/gnd/122459237
*http://gso.gbv.de/xslt/DB=1.28/SET=1/TTL=3/PPN?PPN=00458600X
The sources are the German national library and a project of several German state libraries. Both sources state that Maria Cunitz' father was a German doctor (literal translation), IMHO a information worth mentioning since the main concern of several other users in the last weeks was her ethnicity. So, my question is: are the sources reliable, and is the given fact worth mentioning? Karasek (talk) 15:15, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The catalogue entry gives the following information: "Weitere Angaben: aus Liegnitz/Schlesien; Dt. Arzt". Literal translation: "further information: from Liegnitz (Legnica)/Silesia; (Ger)man doctor". Exactly the information we need. Karasek (talk) 19:25, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: By your translation, that doesn't say anything about her father.  Nutiketaiel (talk) 11:15, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Why not? Karasek (talk) 15:28, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I should say that he was an ethnic German and father of Maria Cunitz. Please stop suggesting German ethnicity of Maria by inserting misleading sources.--Jacurek (talk) 15:33, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: RfC: Are informations given by German national and state libraries reliable and worth mentioning?  

message: WP:SPS clearly states:
"Anyone can create a website or pay to have a book published, then claim to be an expert in a certain field. For that reason self-published media, whether books, newsletters, personal websites, open wikis, blogs, Internet forum postings, tweets etc., are largely not acceptable.[5]
Self-published material may, in some circumstances, be acceptable when produced by an established expert on the topic of the article whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications. However, caution should be exercised when using such sources: if the information in question is really worth reporting, someone else is likely to have done so."
The two sources used here are websites, which both aren't reliable. Tripod is a free web host, Scienceray looks like a publishing service. Both authors are unknown. Karasek (talk) 18:05, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Two sources removed

message: Not far, but refs need work: some need formatting, a few are missing. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 05:24, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: B-class review

message: Re  - Stan, I obviously was not referring to you. Ok. Which references are you talking about? I think that generally it's a good idea to use really old references, whether primary or secondary, for obvious reasons, particularly on potentially controversial subjects. Volunteer Marek  02:08, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  references 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Would like to add, "Cunitz's husband, Elias von Lowen, wrote a preface in Urania Propitia to cast out any rumors that it was Elias von Lowen that computed the tables and to show support for his wife." Alynbrwn (talk) 17:26, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed changes