Talk:Continental Divide of the Americas

message: Continental Divide and continental divide should be merged.
:No. I think one is about the general idea of continental divides and the other is about the Continental Divide, a specific one in North America. Do any other continents refer to their continental divides as the Continental Divide? Where are the others for that matter? Rmhermen 21:09, Oct 7, 2003 (UTC)
::Where I'm from it's called a watershed (which is then used as a metaphor for the time after which a TV Channel is allowed to show (in)decent films). What you seem to be calling a watershed, I'd call a basin. 82.36.26.229 19:02, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger suggestion 

message: Should this be moved to North American continental divide? --SPUI (talk) 21:02, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I would support that proposal. Currently, the two articles have identical titles, apart from Divide being capitalised in one but not the other. This could make it confusing and difficult to tell them apart. Ygoloxelfer 17:07, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I agree.  This article is about a specific one and should be named more appropriately. --Appraiser 04:11, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: National Atlas deprecates the use of Continental Divide to refer to it, and suggests Great Divide instead.  Great Divide is in common usage as the name for this divide and would avoid the confusion (and possible chauvinism) of referring to one of many continental divides as the Continental Divide.  Great Divide is also preferable to North American continental divide (which probably should be a WP:DAB page) as even under the most restrictive definition of continental divide there is more than one of them in North America, as waters flow to three oceans. Kablammo 10:55, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Move suggestions 

message: The map that goes with this article, while colorful, could be replaced with something better.  For one thing, the depiction of the Great Basin in the map contradicts the explanation in the article (and the article, I believe, is correct). Unschool 22:42, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You seem to be confusing the Great Basin and Great Divide Basin. --SPUI (talk) 21:03, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Weak Map 

message: As the "triple point" link goes to a discussion of the chemical sense of the word, and "Triple Point (Geography)" seems like a really silly additional article, I'm removing the link to "Triple Point."  I think an uninitiated reader can get the sense of the word in context, and would be even more confused by an unrelated discussion of the chemistry application of "triple point."  (see the discussion page for the "Triple Point" article)
Yale2010 02:07, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Triple Point 

message: This article say the great basin divide is in/around Wyoming, but on the map it appears to be northern California and/or part of Utah...    Super Jedi Droid 02:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The Great Basin, which is shown on the map, is not the same as the Great Divide Basin, which is not shown on the map.  Nationalparks 02:20, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inconsistency 

message: I propose moving Continental Divide to Continental Divide (Rocky Mountains) with a goal of "piping" links to this article by replacing Continental Divide with Continental Divide--Appraiser (talk) 14:21, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would prefer Continental Divide (North America); in particular, I don't think the mountains along which it runs are called the "Rocky Mountains" in Mexico. --Macrakis (talk) 17:26, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New proposed move 

message: Template: has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. — pete 14:56, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  TfD nomination of [[:Template:{{ucfirst:ft}}]] 

message: Hello all... 
An image used in the article, specifically :Image:Continental Divide in Colorado - July 2005.jpg, has a little bit of a licensing issue.  The image was uploaded back when the rules around image uploading were less restrictive.  It is presumed that the uploader was willing to license the picture under the GFDL license but was not clear in that regard.  As such, the image, while not at risk of deletion, is likely not clearly licensed to allow for free use in any future use of this article.  If anyone has an image that can replace this, or can go take one and upload it, it would be best.
You have your mission, take your camera and start clicking.--Jordan 1972 (talk) 00:48, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image needs replacement 

message: If this is going to be claimed as "Continental Divide of the Americas " where is the map of South America. It seems the whole article is North Americancentric, there is really nothing about SA and CA in there minus a blurb about Panama and the Andes.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Seattlehawk94 (talk • contribs) 14:19, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I second that. We should either rename the article to limit the topic to North America, or expand it greatly. -- Avenue (talk) 12:20, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The South American portion of this article needs further development.  The Continental Divide is less commonly known in South America and is more controversial since it generally does not follow political boundaries.  It is every bit as important as the portion in North America.  Yours aye,  Buaidh  19:02, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  South American Map 

message: Re this:
:. This is the only place on earth where two oceanic divides meet, i.e. where waters from a single point area feed into three different oceans. This status of Triple Divide Peak is the main reason behind the designation of Glacier-Waterton International Peace Park as the "Crown of the Continent" of North America[]
Well, duh, except the very next paragraph sez there's another triple divide point just north at the Columbia Icefield.  Is that on a different planet?  Or could it be that the University of Montana citation is US-myopic and hasn't really given their claim much thought?  Invalid cites are still invalid/incorrect; all that can be said is that the University of Montana site says that, but in reality there's the Columbia Icefield triple-point also.  And it won't help quibbling that the Arctic Ocean and Hudson Bay are teh same thing, that's no more true than saying the Atlantic Ocean and Hudson Bay are the same thing.  And, um, now that I think about it, it's a toss-up whether the Bering Strait (the outlet of the Yukon River) is part of the Pacific or the Arctic Oceans...somewhere up there, there's going to be a triple point between the Yukon (Bering Strait), Taku (Pacific Ocean) or Stikine (Pacific Ocean) and the Liard or Finlay (Arctic Ocean), which is just as much a triple point as the Columbia Icefield is....and I don't know African geography well, but it seems that the Nile and Congo must share, at some point, a drainage divide with something flowing to the Indian ccean.  And given that Eurasia is bounded by not three, but four oceans, somewhere up in Tibet or the Altai there would seem to have to be a triple (or even quadruple) drainage point, by simple topographic geometry; even if there's no water flowing near that point it's still a drainage divide.....then there's the reality of Europe, where the Rhine and the Danube rise near each other and their drainage basins must flank something flowing to the Med (gee, that would be the Rhone, most likely....); OK, the North, Baltic and Mediterranean are only seas but it's only a question of terminology (especially given the assumption that Hudson Bay is an "ocean", or even part of one).  Claims like "the only place on earth' are generally pretty shallow and always based on the person making them making up their own application of the definitions, i.e. they're very subjective, and always suspect.Skookum1 (talk) 02:13, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: "''only'' place on earth..."

message: As in the previous section, I believe there is a case to be made for the importance of the Yukon basin v. other Pacific drainages v. other Arctic drainages.  I've located the point, it's Ash Mountain in Tuya Mountains Provincial Park.  Streams off its south slopes flow to the Tuya (Stikine basin); off its southeast slopes to the Cottonwood River (Dease/Liard -> Mackenzie/Arctic drainage) and the Jennings River (Teslin-Yukon-Bering drainage) off its north.Skookum1 (talk) 03:50, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Er, well, actually a southern subpeak of Ash, not the main summit, which is off the continental divide and only on the Stikine/Yukon divide, by some few hundred yards maybe; see Talk:Toozaza Peak.Skookum1 (talk) 03:56, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: third triple point

message: Has the Gulf of Meixico/Hudson Bay and Appalachian divide and the Gulf of Mexico-St. Lawrence divide - this is very much USPOV/context, and it should include the Mackenzie/Saskatchewan/Great Barrens divide and the Yukon/Stikine-Taku-Skagway-Alsek/Pacific divide.  Pretty much the Yukon-Mackenzie/North Slope divide needs to be shown as well i.e. the outline of its basin (same idea as the Mississippi).  Too much to ask for the Sea of Cortes/main Pacific divide, I guess - too hard to plot maybe?Skookum1 (talk) 03:50, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Just re-iterating that the Mackenzie-Saskatchewan Divide, from the so-called "triple point" at Snow Dome, be shown as being just as singificant as the Hudson Bay/St Lawrence or St Lawwrence/Mississippi divide and the Applachian divide....Skookum1 (talk) 14:24, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: main map

message: Somewhere in the Rockies, a creek forks and flows toward both the Missouri and (if i remember right) the Columbia. I've seen it on a topo map but have forgotten most details. —Tamfang (talk) 07:44, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps you're thinking of North and South Two Ocean Creek, which join near Two Ocean Pass, on Two Ocean Plateau, splitting into Atlantic Creek and Pacific Creek, in Yellowstone National Park. See, . Topo maps via ACME Mapper: http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=44.0410589,-110.1674116&z=15 Pfly (talk) 09:44, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: There's also La Poudre Pass Lake (really more of a meadow) in central Colorado -- one side empties into the Colorado River and the other flows into La Poudre Pass Creek which is a fork of the Cache La Poudre River which in turn goes into the South Platte River. Shannontalk contribs 23:13, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  another exception 

message: If the Atlantic subdivisions of the St. Lawrence basin, the Atlantic Seaboard and the Gulf of Mexico are shown, then certainly the much more significant divide between the Beaufort Sea and Hudson Bay drainages should be shown; I know there's that "but they're both the Arctic Ocean" definition issue, but basins whose outlets are a couple of thousand miles apart and which divide a significant sector of the continent....well, suffice to say it seems that the maker of this map saw US basin-divisions as more significant, even though thyey're not; if the Atlantic Seaboard/Appalachian Divide is shown, also, the Churchill/Ungava/Labrador main divide should also be shown (especially since one flows to the "Arctic Ocean" aka Hudson Bay while the other flows directly to the North Atlantic.....Skookum1 (talk) 22:05, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Heya, I was just loading some maps into Photoshop to add that divide to the map used here--at the same time you were posting. Unsure of a name for it, I was thinking of labeling it the "Hudson Bay–Arctic Ocean Divide". Might actually manage to do it sometime today. Pfly (talk) 22:23, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, you'd have people making issue of that Hudson Bay vs. Arctic Ocean, since there's definitions out there which include Hudson Bay as part of the Arctic Ocean.  I'd suggested Beaufort Sea because the main drainage is that of the Mackenzie....though there's a divide line which snakes across the Great Barrens to the Boothia Peninsula and what's north of it isn't exactly the BEaufort Sea, more like the Northwest Passage (a series of straits flanking the mainland).  Maybe Beaufort Sea/Northwest Passage-Hudson Bay Divide would suffice.Skookum1 (talk) 22:35, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, hmm, a simple "Hudson Bay Divide" should suffice, now that I think about it. The map already shows a "St. Lawrence" divide after all. Plus lots of divides are named for the thing they contain, like Tennessee Valley Divide, Great Basin Divide, etc. Pfly (talk) 22:38, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

text: PS, the map is not large, so the detail will be low. I was thinking of using the maps at List of Hudson Bay rivers and Rupert's Land as a basic guide. Pfly (talk) 22:42, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I "did" the divide line for bivouac a long time ago, I don't think I saved the list of points.  The Rupert's Land map is maybe the best guide....that List of Hudson Bay rivers doesn't strike me as the right title for that - List of rivers flowing into Hudson Bay or List of rivers in the Hudson Bay drainage seem more accurate/grammatical titles.Skookum1 (talk) 22:45, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm, WP has List of rivers of the Baltic Sea and List of rivers discharging into the North Sea. ...none of these inspire me to move the page... Pfly (talk) 22:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, "Hudson Bay rivers" doesn't cut it...maybe we should take it up at WP:Rivers and come up with a standard-title format.Skookum1 (talk) 23:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Map needs Beaufort Sea/Hudson Bay Divide

message: I finished a new map, at the Commons: North American - Water Divides. I'll use it on this page for now. Feedback welcomed (perhaps better at User talk:Pfly instead of here). Some of the terminology might not be ideal. I ended up using the term "Arctic" for the Hudson Bay–Beaufort Sea divide, a term I saw here and there. Realized "Hudson Bay Divide" would not work because that would include the so-called Laurentian/Northern divide as well as the new one I added. I'm not devoted to the term "Arctic Divide", but not sure about "Hudson Bay–Beaufort Sea Divide"--anyway the new line goes clear to the southern end of Baffin Island, far from the Beaufort Sea). Also, I'm thinking of adding some additional text, like identifying the various closed basins along the divides (Great Divide Basin, Bolsón de Mapimí, etc). Also thinking about uploading an SVG version with PNGs at various sizes, but have to learn a bit more about how to do that. Anyway, it may not be the best map in the world, but it should be an improvement over the old one. Pfly (talk) 21:15, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I think maybe the Yukon basin divides could be shown....I'm always dicey on considering the Bering Strait/Sea to be part of the Pacific Ocean (which technically it is); but then that kind of predisposes towards showing hte larger Pacific basins like that of the Stikine, Fraser, Columbia and Sacramento...and Colorado...it's a slippery slope; similarly the Rio Grande/Mississippi divide might be added (or maybe ther'es another basin in between somewhere in Texas?) but in the same light the Churchill River/Gulf of St. Lawrence one could diverge off the Hudson Bay divide where it meets the Labrador boundary.....but none of these are continental divides, except maybe the Yukon; with the Mississippi and St. Lawrence it's because their basins are so large and unique I think they could/should be shown separately/additionally.Skookum1 (talk) 23:22, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm copying this thread to my talk page because it's relevant to more than just this page. So see User talk:Pfly#New map of divides. Pfly (talk) 08:48, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: What about the Great Red Desert in Wyoming:  Doesn't the Divide "split" around it, as it flows neither east nor west?Skookum1 (talk) 06:40, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep, that's in the Great Divide Basin. Pfly (talk) 07:18, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: New map of divides

message: I have deleted what looks to me to be vandalism by 24.91.156.163 in their second revision on 10 May. I might be wrong, but Quinoa is not a tribe but a cereal and Monogui Driskol turns up precisely one hit on Google; this article. Cottonshirtτ 19:17, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Delete Vandalism 

message: I think it is impossible for there NOT to be a connecting divide between the Great Basin and the Great Divide. That seems to have escaped the map makers and geographers. At some point, the water either flows south of the basin or north....i.e. another line is needed.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.179.172.59 (talk) 06:19, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Responding to old comment. This line would be, if I'm not mistaken, the Green River/Colorado basin and the Snake River/Columbia basin,  It didn't escape me, it just didn't make the my cut for all the possible divides that could be shown. It's a slippery slope anyway. That line could essentially divide waters flowing "directly" to the Pacific with those flowing to the Gulf of California. But if you are going to do that wouldn't you also want another divide line in Mexico, separating the drainage to the Gulf of California from more southernly drainages "directly" into the Pacific in Mexico? ...and if you show that, why not...etc etc etc. A more complex map could be made, I just didn't have it in me. Pfly (talk) 05:13, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments

message: Technically speaking, a "continental" hydrological division should span the entire breath of a "continent".  The Continental Divide of the Americas spans the entire length of either one or two continents, depending on whether you consider the Americas to be one or two continents.  Many lesser hydrological divisions are commonly called "continental divides", although the term does not properly apply.  The Eastern Continental Divide extends from Cape Breton to the Florida Keys, not quite the breath of a continent, but significant nonetheless.  Yours aye,  Buaidh  15:11, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Very debatable if that sholud be named that rather than "Appalachian Divide" maybe.......it's not a continental divide in the accepted sense of that term.Skookum1 (talk) 09:29, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

text: A continental divide doesn't mean one that spans a continent because few do. It means a divide that separates the rivers of a continent into sets that drain into separate gulfs, seas or oceans. The Eastern Continental Divide extends only from ~50 miles south of Lake Ontario to the northern border of the Kissimmee River watershed. It terminates in the south at the endorheic basin of Lake Okeechobee, and in the north at the Eastern Triple Divide where it intersects the St. Lawrence Divide.Sbalfour (talk) 18:08, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: "Continental" divides

message: Finally made a map showing the divide in South America (and Central America, which isn't shown on the other map): http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:SouthAmerica-ContinentalDivide.png . It's rather minimal. I think I got the divide right, but let me know if there are any issues with the map. The divide in southern Chile/Argentina might be slightly different, but I think I got it right. Also, there are additional closed drainage areas south of the Altiplano region shown, but as far as I could tell they mostly lie east of the divide, in Argentina, rather than on it, and are mostly rather small anyway. Pfly (talk) 07:21, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you. A great contribution to wp. And I love it, fwiw. -DePiep (talk) 23:00, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

text: Thanks for the input. I'll see if I can improve the map. Do you know of any good sources I could use to address the points you make? Pfly (talk) 03:56, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Map of divide in South America 

message: I added the Panama Canal to the See also section, but it was removed . This is the interesting relevance: the Canal is fed (lock operations are fed) throught the high level lake. The lake itself is filled by Gatun and Chagres rivers, which originally flowed into the Pacific Atlantic. Now through the Culebra Cut, the digout in the ridge that breaks through the watershed ridge, the water flow into the Atlantic Pacific too. That is a sort of interruption in the watershed I'd say. -DePiep (talk) 08:33, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed that the Panama Canal changed the drainage patterns in its local area.  But I don't think it's useful to readers to include it in the "See Also" section. --Macrakis (talk) 14:21, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Any suggestion? -DePiep (talk) 23:23, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Panama Canal]] 

message: I'm taking out the "Human and cultural impact" section and posting it here in order to explain. First, as Mexico is part of North America the claim that Lewis and Clark, or Simon Fraser, were the first to cross the divide is very wrong. Second, the whole idea of "Aboriginal impact with The Divide" is not explained. What is it even supposed to mean? Third, the term "aboriginal in-migration" is confusing and unsourced. Fourth, the idea that the divide is a symbol of the difference between eastern and western America is unsourced and hard to believe—New Mexico and Wyoming are part of "the east"? And that assuming "America" means the United States—if it doesn't then the claim is even less believable. Finally, the divide might play a role in the book The Selected Works of T.S. Spivet, but this seems rather trivial for a geographic feature spanning two continents. Also the source cited merely mentions "the drainage patterns along the Continental Divide", not that the divide serves as a "central symbol". Anyway, removed text below. Pfly (talk) 23:18, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed "Human and cultural impact" subsection 

message: As usual when there's more than 5 or 6 of these, the article is lacking coverage of some significant subtopic.  Continental divide as well as the names of the divides could/should be integrated into the last paragraph of the Geography section.  The three trail-related items could/should be integrated into the Hiking trail subsection (rename it Trails instead).  That leaves only 3 misc items.  I question whether Cromwell Dixon is significant enough to be linked to this way.  'See also' is supposed to be links to significant accessory topics that a reader of the article is likely to be interested in.  I don't think the latter qualifies - it's a Trivial Pursuit bit of trivia. Sbalfour (talk) 17:26, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  See also cleanup 

message: The exceptions section is rather an opinion, and unsourced except for a trivial citation to a dubious quotation.  Two of the largest anomalous areas, the Great Basin and the Florida Everglades/Lake Okeechobee are not mentioned at all.  Most small lakes and ponds are in fact endorheic, so it's the rule, not the exception.  And of course, all the local streams that feed those lakes are also endorheic.  I think mentioning a building on the divide whose roof splits the precipitation is something for a popular magazine article, not a scholarly encyclopedia article.
A number of hydrological features are associated with divides including triple points, splits or closed loops in the divide, endorheic basins, split waterways, and places where the divide doesn't follow the ridgeline because of gaps or passes where water drains to the other side, i.e. the opposing watershed.
I think a reorg to introduce a major section, 'Hydrological features', with subsections describing each one with a prominent example (not an enumeration) is the proper approach. Sbalfour (talk) 17:49, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Exceptions section