Talk:Mark A. Gabriel

message: Fjorn, could you supply third-party sources for your edits, please. Also, we don't include Dr. in the first reference to the name. We don't have a reference for his having obtained a PhD either. SlimVirgin (talk) June 30, 2005 23:41 (UTC)
I have severe doubts that this person is what he claims.  If he was really a professor at Al-Azhar and this is his photo, what is the point of hiding his real name?  The whole story stinks.  --Zero 12:35, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. The whole thing looks like a hoax. --Ian Pitchford 13:01, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

text: The book exists and Amazon is selling it.  Amazon does not investigate the backgrounds of authors.  --Zero 23:46, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

text: The very fact that his books have reached the top 10,000 if not 25,000 books sold on amazon means that they are probably quite notable and worthy of documentation. Irrespective of what you think of the book's idea's, or provenance. Klonimus 00:26, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  See also: James Frey. --mordicai. 19:47, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources

message: :Those who reject Islam must be killed. If they turn back
:(from Islam), take (hold of) them and kill them wher-
:ever you find them.... (Gabriel, 2002, p. 33)
The first sentence above, "Those who reject..." is Gabriel's commentary.  The quote from the verse cited begins at, "If they turn back..."  It is taken word-for-word from The Noble Qur'an in the English Language by Muhammad Taqi al-Din al-Hilali and Muhammad Muhsin Khan, a widely-used recent translation distributed for free by the government of Saudi Arabia.  It is not his own translation, nor is it "novel". The only book of his I have seen (Islam and the Jews) cites this translation frequently.
It is his interpretations that are controversial (in Western circles anyway), not the Qur'an citations. His presentation of Islamic belief (ignoring his Christian-colored commentary) agrees with what you can hear broadcast from the loudspeaker of a mosque during the Friday khutba in many Arab countries.--RandallC 13:00, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Gabriel 4:89

message: The Gabriel website is run by Bradlee Sargent an American-born computer programmer who "saw the importance of evangelizing Muslims in 1983, when he lived in Saudi Arabia" . Sargent is a member of the Arabic Evangelical Church organized by Syrian-born Arab Christian Peter Shadid , which aims to guide the Muslims of Central Florida "away from the Islamic teachings of Mohammed and toward Christianity".
*Dead links.  Can anyone source these assertions?E.M.Gregory (talk) 01:48, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Website

message: Per Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Mark_A._Gabriel. --Woohookitty 11:06, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Vfd vote failed

message: I've done another copy edit of this troubled article. I removed the section on novel interpretations of the Qua'ran because it smacked of OR, and the "background as an imam" section because a source was requested months ago and none has been produced. Otherwise, I more or less left everything intact, but tried to word it more factually and improve the narrative flow. I can't get into his website. I wonder whether it's been taken down. SlimVirgin (talk) 20:41, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: His website stopped responding some time ago.  I suspect this is the last we will hear of this person, who almost certainly never really existed.  The entire story from start to finish has "fake" written all over it. --Zero 21:50, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I wonder what we should do about the article. Someone's writing his books, because they're on sale through Amazon, though one reviewer said they read as though they were written by a ten-year-old. SlimVirgin (talk) 21:53, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Leave the article the way it is. Mark A. Gabriel is a real person, he wrote the books himself. Slow or no replies doesn't necessarily mean that your dealing with fake people. --Gramaic | Talk 02:29, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Zero, Gramiac. There's something not right about this. The details are too vague for a start. Questioned his faith and was therefore fired and tortured in Cairo. But Cairo is relatively liberal. That doesn't mean it couldn't happen, but tortured for what exactly, and how did he escape? Also, there are no sources that don't regurgitate the website/publisher's blurb. I'm also suspicious of the way he's "Dr. Mark A. Gabriel" everywhere. People with PhDs tend not to trumpet it at every opportunity; some do, admittedly, but it's unusual and another mark against him. When you say he's a real person, can you say how you know that? SlimVirgin (talk) 02:55, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: To the anon: I'm deleting "claimed" from "to reflect his claimed new religious identity," because it's poor English and POV. SlimVirgin (talk) 00:14, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Copy edit

message: Tagging a " he says" to every major statement in this article is a ridiculous rhetorical device designed to raise doubt over the credibility of the subject of the article. This has little to do with an encyclopedic article so this will have to be cleaned up.--CltFn 03:10, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It's mostly necessary, given that we don't even know that he exists. SlimVirgin (talk) 03:11, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Doesnt that seem to be a bit of a stretch?. The person in the picture looks real enough to me and his books did not get written by themselves. --CltFn 03:24, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: We don't know who it's a photograph of, who writes the books, or that they're written by one person. Nothing about Gabriel checks out; there are no independent third-party sources. SlimVirgin (talk) 03:34, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

text: It's Strang Communications. All the Google hits lead back to websites run by the same group of people, or information taken directly from those websites. SlimVirgin (talk) 03:41, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: If you want to state anything about him as fact, then find an independent, third-party source (not him, his agent, or his publisher, or anyone who just copies what they say); in the meantime, you might want to review WP:RS, WP:V, and WP:NOR. SlimVirgin (talk) 03:51, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: OK fair enough , Slim , I will try to see if I can get ahold of some verifyable sources then. --CltFn 03:58, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. SlimVirgin (talk) 05:34, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

text: While I would like to see more credible sources used, Ian Pitchford's attempt to cast doubt in every other sentace of this article was excessive,innapropriate, and unconstructive. Klonimus 08:09, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Can we quit tagging everything in this article with "he says"  

message: It not how we do it in Wikipedia See here for acceptable and unacceptable uses.--CltFn 16:49, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stop inserting those he claims this he claims that 

message: After visiting FCU's website, I object to the use of the term "diploma mill" in the article. Diploma mill is a very negative term. Many religious schools choose not to be accredited by one of the major regional accrediting bodies in the United States. Bob Jones University is a major example. Cordoba University and their school of Islamic sciences is another unaccredited school. Usually, diploma mills require an unusually low amount of coursework. Until this is proven, I have removed the diploma mill reference from the article. JeremyBicha 04:52, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Diploma Mill

message: http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?t=5769—Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.158.20.157 (talk • contribs) 
As a recent convert to Islam I say how dare he question the word of Allah.  Islam is the one true religion and Mohammad (may he rest in peace) is the messenger of Allah.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.155.110.74 (talk) 15:55, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: How dare he question? Why not? People are entitled to speak their minds, and say what they have to say. You can't attack people just because their points of views differ from yours. So, please have an open heart and mind, and don't be hard headed. Always leave room for dialogue!
Here's a link that all Muslim's should take a look at:
islam-christianity.net 
Praise Jesus Christ, the Son of God! --140.144.121.17 (talk) 22:41, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Answering Mark A. Gabriel

message: We need to establish for certain whether or not the  'Islam og terrorisme, Av Mark Gabriel. Kommentert av Basim Ghozlan'  article by Basim Ghozlan was published with the largest Christian daily newspaper in Norway, Vaart Land, denouncing Gabriel and his book Islam and Terrorism.
As you can see their is a debate about this, please see the edits HERE which show the references.
Mark Gabriel says the article did feature in the magazine and so does Ghozlan but User:Jayran says: "Google and Vårt Land's own archives show no record of this article ever being published anywhere other than Islam.no" Robert C Prenic 06:59, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm quite busy at the moment, so I'll keep this short. Here's a link for google with results limited to Vårt Land's site - the search terms are mark gabriel basim.  and a search with a passage of the Islam.no article that Mark quotes in the original language with no site restrictions - . Mark Gabriel isn't just a fraud, he is bad at being one. Jayran 18:22, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: ISLAM.NO ARTICLE

message: See. Doug Weller (talk) 15:02, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: *Can you be more specific?  What is this sourcing and what does it say?  If pertinent, why not just add  it to the article?E.M.Gregory (talk) 01:52, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source 

message: A substantial part of this article appears to be a copy/paste of this website and in particular of this page. Furthermore the entire page has been translated into WP(fr) and WP(nl) with the same potential copyright violation. --Lebob (talk) 17:26, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Check the wayback archive, how much of this page was added before that webpage existed? Doug Weller talk 19:18, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for keeping an eye open for copyvio, ! In this particular case, however, it's the other way round – Gabriel has copied from us (and without the acknowledgement required by our licence, too). Looking at archived versions of the page you rightly identified as similar, the first to have the biographical text is this, from 1 September 2012; the previous archived version from March 2012 doesn't have the bio. The content was copied from about  of our page. The absolute giveaway is the Wikipedia citation number in square brackets – "… to also accept Jesus Christ as your Saviour".[5]" – in that September 2012 version of his page. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 16:14, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyright violation 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Mark A. Gabriel. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061029083514/http://www.arabicbible.com/testimonies/gabriel.htm to http://www.arabicbible.com/testimonies/gabriel.htm
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 05:08, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The assertion that Gabriel's "real identity" has been questioned really needs a second source.E.M.Gregory (talk) 00:09, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Allegations of fraud