Talk:Spree killer

message: >In many countries, the acts of spree killers have been catalysts
>for lessening the gun rights of private individuals in the gun politics debate, 
This is biased wording. There are no "gun rights" anywhere outside the USA. Some countries of the world allow citizens to keep guns to some degree, others do not at all for diverse reasons. But no country outside USA thinks private gun ownership is in the same category as E=mc^2 or PI=3.14159265359... i.e. undeniable natural truth.
En.Wikipedia is an english-language encyclopedia, not an american encyclopedia and therefore should not use US-biased language. There are 6.25 billion people on Earth and only 300 million of them are Americans. 195.70.32.136 12:02, 15 February 2006.
:While it may be appreciated how some might take issue with or become emotionally upset over the legal right of American citizens to keep and bear arms, there is nothing specifically biased in the statement quoted above, i.e., "In many countries, the acts of spree killers have been catalysts for lessening the gun rights of private individuals in the gun politics debate."  This statement is an unbiased fact.  Anti-gun lobbyists in other countries do use spree killings as evidence to support their political and social aims.  Granted, most documented spree killings occur in the United States, but to the extent that the anti-gun lobby in countries outside the USA do cite such incidents in their efforts to change policy and legislation, the statement can be considered factual.
:Such incidents include those perpetrated by Australians Martin Bryant (Port Arthur Massacre) and Wade Frankum (Strathfield Massacre), Scot Thomas Hamilton (Dunblane massacre), Englishman Michael Robert Ryan (Hungerford massacre), Canadian Marc Lepine (École Polytechnique Massacre), and New Zealander David Gray (Aramoana massacre). Each of these non-American spree shooting incidents was used by proponents of stricter gun control to further their agendas in their respective countries.
:The writer of the "Biased vocabulary" post in this discussion should check his or her facts before publishing biased Anti-American statements.
Jay Black 06:17, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe the issue here is with the wording of "gun rights". The statement itself is generally true, but it is also a bit emotive. Hopefully the changes I have made are not so contentious. I have also made significant formatting changes to make it more consistent. Also I have removed links to redirect pages and pages about killers that link to the incident they are infamous for. I consider it unlikely that a page will ever be made purely dedicated to the individuals rather than the incidents and therefore have removed the links that are redundant - either because they are red or link to the incident. If anyone objects please do not simply revert but change the specific things that you disagree with. Zarboki 13:31, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The issue here is over one word: rights. User:195.70.32.136 is correct in the fact that America is one of very few nations that recognize the right to keep and bear arms as a fundamental human truth; e.g. enshrined in the constitution. Other countries, like Canada, where I live, allow their citizens to have guns, but it is a privilege, not a right. Saying this is not anti-American. Let's not bicker and argue about gun policy, or succumb to petty name-calling. We're not saying guns should or should not be a right, we're simply stating fact. Rustalot42684 14:23, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Biased/correct vocabulary 

message: Do freeway shootings count? Chris 00:44, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, if they fit the other criteria; location doesn't come into the definition. Jim Michael (talk) 20:10, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Freeway shootings

message: Should the recent vehicular murder spree by Omeed Aziz Popal go in here? --Aussie Evil 21:48, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: SF rampage

message: An expert on TV noted that Cho Seung Hui was a 'mass murderer' not a 'spree killer' because he didn't just 'snap,' he planned this out long in advance.R Young {yakłtalk} 00:01, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The amount of planning is irrelevant to whether it counts under the definition of spree. He was not a spree killer because he shot all of his victims at the same location. Jim Michael (talk) 20:10, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmmm, under that definition, Anders Behring Breivik is also not a 'spree' killer, as all of his actual shooting took place in a single location (the bombing occurred elsewhere obviously). Manning (talk) 02:21, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The FBI does not require that the killings occur in more than one location in the application of the term "spree killer":  Specifically, "The general definition of spree murder is two or more murders committed by an offender or offenders, without a cooling-off period." (from http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/serial-murder).  It appears that spree killers are a special case of mass murderers and essentially are the same as rampage killers.  The murders are done in a relatively short time, whether in one or more locations. Planning or its absence does not seem relevant.  In some cases, one can't know whether in fact there was planning. Gerrymeander (talk) 07:01, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Spree killer vs [[mass murder]]er

message: The current definition of a spree killer is WAY OFF. A spree killer is a serial killer whose murders are not spaced over a significant period of time, and who doesn't target any one particular kind of victim. It's like a "serial killer on crack". The characters from Natural Born Killers, for example, would be "spree killers". Cho Seung-hui, on the other hand, wouldn't qualify as a "spree killer", he would qualify as a "mass murderer". Bueller 007 06:41, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, while your definitions were wrong, the article itself was messed up too, so I've reverted the lead back to what it used to say. DreamGuy 06:46, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

text: The serial killer definition in the comment submitted by Adraeus is incorrect in saying 'relatively short interval'; there are often breaks of months or sometimes years between murders. Jim Michael (talk) 20:10, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Accuracy disputed

message: I've been reviewing the entries in :Category:Massacres in the United States and :Category:Spree shootings in the United States.  If all the killings were committed in one relatively small area (e.g. a McDonald's or a house), I have categorized the incident as a "massacre".  If the killings were in two or more distinct locations, I have categorized those incidents as "spree killings".  
However, there are some difficulties.  A "school playground" is, in my opinion, a single location and thus a massacre.  I think all the killings in the Amish school shooting were in one location so that is also a massacre.  However, is the Columbine High School incident a "massacre" or a "spree shooting"?  The high school could be considered one location but the shooting happened across several locations within the high school so I would classify that as a "spree shooting".  
Similarly, the 101 California Street shootings took place on two floors so I would classify that as a "spree shooting".  However, I could see arguments for considering Columbine High School one location and 101 California Street as one location and thus these would be massacres and not "spree shootings".  
Another angle on this question is how an incident should be classified if it takes place in multiple cubicles/offices/areas of a company's office or across multiple areas in a factory such as the Standard Gravure shooting.
In effect, what I'm asking is - How far does a killer have to travel in order to be classified as a "spree killer"?
--Richard 19:44, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Spree killers leave and go somewhere else, not a different spot in the same place. Thus two floors of the same building is the same location. Many of the entries in this article are just wrong and need to be deleted... and the people who put them there either need to educate themselves before making any additional edits or should get blocked or something. An encyclopedia is a place for people to get educated, not to take advice from people who don't know what they are talking about. DreamGuy (talk) 17:00, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Spree killing vs. massacre

message: Is that important to specify in how many hours someone killed how many people?
It reads like the Guinness Book of Records. Should be maybe award a prize to the winner?
Should not be enough to name just some cases without the details? --192.33.238.6 (talk) 13:09, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Hours

message: I just put on a tag on the list because an IP-based anonymous editor is aggressively re-adding entries that are not spree killings, and I bet a bunch of the rest aren't spree killings either. I don't have the time to go look the rest up and delete all the bad ones, especially when somebopdy simply reverts me minutes later on the ones I already deleted.
There's a difference between mass murder and spree killings. Anyone who took the time to read the lead of the article would know that, but unfortunately many of the people editing here apparently can't be bothered to learn about the topic before making edits to it. DreamGuy (talk) 16:57, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, I went through and checked all of the examples listed, removing ones that were only mass murders. Since the problem is fixed, I removed the tag. DreamGuy (talk) 22:34, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Factually disputed 

message: Where's the Columbine entry???  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.190.231.194 (talk) 16:52, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It was not a spree killing as it was in one location. Jim Michael (talk) 20:10, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Columbine High School massacre]] 

message: People refuse to classify this as a spree killing given the so-called cooling off period between the attacks. If this cooling off period is what separates it from other spree killings, then what makes the Virginia Tech massacre worthy of keeping it's place on this page. Cho killed a few people, went back to his room to videotape himself, then killed some more people. Wouldn't the whole intermission between the killings warrant a cooling off period? If anything, the D.C. snipers are even more worthy of being called spree killers because they were always on the prowl for more victims. Charles Starkweather and Caril Ann Fugate's 1958 killing spree surely had one or two cooling off periods given that it lasted several days. What about the time it took for Jeffery Weise to drive to school after claiming his first two victims? Wouldn't that be a cooling off period. People who keep making unnecessary corrections like these need to quit being so snooty.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.97.165.30 (talk) 22:24, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Beltway sniper attacks|D.C. snipers]] 

message: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lane_Bryant_shooting  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gwopy (talk • contribs) 03:55, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Lane Bryant shooting]] 

message: Is there a limit on how many should one kill, to be notable enought to be mentioned on this page? Would killing 5 and himself do?
Added signing Akseli18 (talk) 00:59, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  About notability 

message: Judging by the definition, spree killers are murderers who's crimes happen at more than one location right? Well, Unruh roamed the streets of Camden searching for victims and occasionally entered peoples homes to murder someone. What the hell is that? Sounds like a spree killer to me. George Banks murdered several girlfriends and children in his home before murdering two neighbors, driving to another house and killing a few more. At the end of the day, Banks had murdered 13 people, five of them family. That is a spree killer. Ronald Gene Simmons murdered 14 relatives and drove to his workplace two days later, murdering two co-workers and wounding several others in a shooting spree. That's 16 people in two separate places over the course of three days. Spree killer. Now that I've explained myself can you leave those entries be?
Fort Hood, by definition was a mass murder because it happened in one location: Fort Hood Military Base.
You can remove the Strathfield massacre for all I care, but why'd you remove the Aramoana massacre from the list?
As for the similar cases section I just thought I'd add it for simplicity's sake to provide people with a list of mass murders and shooting sprees that are widely regarded as spree killings.
:Any discussion that starts "Wow, what a dumbass" in an edit comment coming from someone who can't be bothered to read the definition of spree killer in the article itself is totally doomed to failure. The first step you need to take before editing again is to learn the difference between mass murderer, serial killer and spree killer. Until you do that you are just spreading ignorance. This is an encyclopedia, not a place for you to make stuff up.  DreamGuy (talk) 03:13, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why Howard Unruh, George Banks, and Ronald Gene Simmons ''were'' spree killers 

message: The British author Colin Wilson prefers the term rampage killer. The word spree has been carelessly used for decades as its classic definition is "Bit of fun, excursion or other breaking loose from routine..." Since it is none of these for either shooter or victim its use is entirely wrong although so entrenched in the language now its progrees is unstoppable. This does not justify the appalling misuse of the word.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.74.146.22 (talk) 08:15, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rampage killer 

message: Spree killers are, for lack of a better term, traveling serial killers. There are only a handful of noteworthy examples. Billy Cook, Andrew Cunanan, Paul Knowles and Charles Starkweather are a few that come to mind. Spree shootings that stretch beyond one location are just that, SPREE SHOOTINGS. Not SPREE KILLINGS. I think the true definition of a spree killer is largely misunderstood by the so-called Serial Killer Task Force.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Quinton Moad (talk • contribs) 21:02, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Spree shootings that kill people are by definition spree killings. Traveling serial killers are just serial killers who traveled, not spree killers. You don't get to make up your own definitions and expect an encyclopedia to follow your own version. DreamGuy (talk) 19:13, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  True definition of a spree killer 

message: Is there a good reason why the table defaults to sorted by number of deaths? I can't help but be reminded of the Encyclopedia Dramatica term "high score" in this context, and that is definitely a Bad Thing. Perhaps it should sort by date instead?--Nucleusboy (talk) 18:40, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, it was ghoulish and in poor taste.  I've changed the default sort to chronological, and renamed "Kill Count" to "Victims Killed".GideonF (talk) 12:15, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Table sorting 

message: Since this is a page listing murder-suicides, the Columbine Massacre needs to be listed here. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbine_High_School_massacre
I added the link to that page, but I don't know how to write a good enough article about it, though. --KellyLeighC (talk) 01:03, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This is not a page listing murder-suicides. This is about spree killings. Mass murders in one location do not fit the definition. DreamGuy (talk) 19:29, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: The Columbine Massacre needs to be listed here

message: The table of killings doesn't exactly match up with the numbers on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_murderers_and_spree_killers_by_number_of_victims#Killing_sprees
Which one is more correct? --86.27.43.236 (talk) 09:46, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Is a mass murder not a spree killing.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.161.148.199 (talk) 16:18, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Incongruent tables 

message: I once again had to go through and remove a bunch of examples that were listed that in no way met the definition of spree killings. This is not the mass murder article, so examples of that do not belong here. DreamGuy (talk) 20:33, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Examples not meeting definition 

message: He is real and we must stop him before he causes this horrible tragedy next year  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.149.99.154 (talk) 00:02, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Chevvelin Gjurdeff

message: This article looks more like a List class. It has an introductory lead section, then a list of spree killing incidents. The list should be supplementary to an article on the psychology, motives, history, and common denominators among the incidents and the killers. Boneyard90 (talk) 10:58, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article format & content 

message: None are spree, none are even close.  Those are the ones I see at a glance, odds are others are mislabeled too.  Anybody want to handle that?  I'd hate to step on any so-called Wiki "expert" toes.
Go4thAndDie (talk) 07:52, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Columbine/Beltway shooters/Tucson 

message: Breivik has been arrested, but as of this writing neither indicted nor convicted.  kencf0618 (talk) 03:31, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  2011 Norway Attacks 

message: The Bath bombing by Andrew Kehoe has no place on this list. It was NOT a spree killing, it was a bombing. The difference is marked and clear. That incident has absolutely no place on the list, especially considering notable incidents like the Port Arthur Massacre and the actions of Woo Bum-Kon are not even mentioned. 99.231.200.55 (talk) 03:56, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I know it's been a while since this was posted, but I'll comment.  Kehoe killed his family at a separate location immediately prior to the bombing.  The two separate incidents that were not separated in time makes this a spree killing.TychaBrahe (talk) 22:23, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: The Bath School Massacre

message: Why are they included and not the 2008 Mumbai attacks?--Cerejota (talk) 07:27, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  2011 Norway attacks 2 

message: Missing Mattias Flink's killing spree in Falun in 1994, killing 7  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.250.152.203 (talk) 09:17, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Falun shootings in 1994 

message: Also missing the two finnish school shootings in 2007 and 2008  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.250.152.203 (talk) 09:47, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Finnish school shootings 

message: Someone needs to get rid of that, now.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.6.45.174 (talk) 17:36, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  "List of high scores" 

message: That the "list of high scores" has been allowed to persist truly shows the shameful state of wikipedia editors
84.202.99.59 (talk) 17:42, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. Jnorton7558 (talk) 23:54, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request from 84.202.99.59, 23 July 2011 

message: I asked an easy question, and got no response, which makes me believe this article, and in particular the list, is not maintained actively, hence the tagging to draw attention to the issued. 
First, the article does belong in Wikipedia, "spree killer" is both a forensic and a media term, and this is sustained by reliable sources.
Second, the list of spree killings seems to be a rather random collection of killing events, in particular because it has no criteria that comes from reliable sources that can be verified. It smells of original research and synthesis.
Third, there would seem to be a number of events missing here, if the event in Norway is included, then Mumbai, and a number of events in Russia must be included. 
I hope these issues are addressed in a constructive manner, and if not done in time, we will have to remove unsourced, original research, and synthesis content from wikipedia.--Cerejota (talk) 18:03, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Issue tags 

message: Add:
Mattias Flink (born March 8, 1970, in Falun, Sweden) is a Swedish spree killer who killed seven people on June 11, 1994, in Falun, Sweden. He was at the time a fänrik in the Swedish Army.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mattias_Flink
78.73.38.190 (talk) 22:21, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done for now: Is there a name for this incident?  Just want to make sure it goes in the table correctly.  Change the answered=yes to answered=no when you reply to this. Jnorton7558 (talk) 07:40, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request from 78.73.38.190, 23 July 2011 

message: Gabrielle Giffords  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ducksfordollars (talk • contribs) 00:46, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Done Jnorton7558 (talk) 02:25, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  can you [[]] gabby giffords name in the table across from jared lee... 

message: Could you please place the Norway massacre at the bottom of the table to keep the list in chronological order?
Reillyignatius (talk) 16:58, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Done by someone else Jnorton7558 (talk) 00:48, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request from Reillyignatius, 24 July 2011 

message: Both of these sections should be removed because they are not spree killings. If these two are listed, the Fort Hood shootings and many other mass murders should be included as well. Reillyignatius (talk) 17:24, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of Netherlands mall shooting and 2011 Tucson shooting 

message: Reuters and the Associated Press, along with multiple other sources, have repeatedly placed the number of dead at 93, with four more likely. Here's just one: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/24/us-norway-attack-probes-idUSTRE76N25L20110724. Let's try to keep this up-to-date, please.
Rapunzel676 (talk) 00:49, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Norway 2011: Updated Casualty Count 

message: Norway spree -> 76 dead, from revised numbers.
131.107.0.86 (talk) 19:44, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Already done Jnorton7558 (talk) 09:22, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request from 131.107.0.86, 25 July 2011 

message: Someone really ought to undo the most recent edit to the page. I would do so, but I do not have an account. 86.143.127.250 (talk) 23:40, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Removed by someone else already Jnorton7558 (talk) 09:23, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  'New High Score' 

message: I added some additional cases which I remembered from my younger years using List of murderers by number of victims as a reference. The list may still not be complete. SpeakFree (talk) 17:22, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  More killings 

message: Anders' attack does not count as a spree killing as it was a politically motivated terrorist attack and not any sort of "spree" or "rampage", therefore it should be removed.
:There would need to be a WP:CONSENSUS for this. There have already been numerous debates about the motive for the Utøya shooting, but removing it from the list altogether would be controversial.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 17:57, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  2011 Norway attacks should be removed 

message: These should be added as and when time permits:
*Ernst August Wagner, 1913, 14 killed
*Patrick Sherrill, 1986, 14 killed.
*Ronald Gene Simmons, 1987, 16 killed.
*Baruch Goldstein, 1994, 25 killed. This is more controversial because of the political/religious element, but is in some ways similar to the Utøya shooting.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 19:57, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Currently not on list 

message: Couldn't we just merge the list of Spree killers with List of rampage killers. Then remove the list from this article and link to that list. It saves double work and endless debates about who should be included and who not. SpeakFree (talk) 20:15, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: At the moment, the List of rampage killers is more complete and better laid out than this article. There has always been some overlap between spree killings, serial killings and mass murders, and the distinction is not always easy to define. There is a case for merging this article as it has become a content fork that is hard to maintain. Other views welcome.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 07:16, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

text: Oppose The List of rampage killers covers a wider subject than the spree killer article.  According to the spree killer article, “A spree killer is someone who embarks on a murderous assault on two or more victims in a short time in multiple locations.” while mass murder is defined thusly, “the attacks of mass murderers are defined by one incident, with no distinctive time period between the murders.”The article also states, “Another term, rampage killer, has sometimes been used to describe spree killers, but it does not differentiate between mass murderers and spree killers.” So a spree killing is an incident of multiple murder that takes place in more than one location while mass murder is is an incident of multiple murder that takes place in one location while rampage killer is a blanket term for both. The List of rampage killers covers both spree killers and mass murderers but the list in the spree killers article should cover only spree killers like Charles Starkweather, Woo Bum-kon, Martin Bryant, and Derrick Bird while mass murderers such as Thomas Hamilton, Jared Loughner and Patrick Sherrill should be removed. --Millionsandbillions (talk) 14:57, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

text: Oppose That some editors have a hard time separating the terms can't be used as an argument for merging. If there are any uncertainties about the usage of the term the article will have to be outlined in a better way to clarify its use. PsychoticInquisition (talk) 03:17, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

text: Oppose. And I echo PsychoticInq's sentiments. Just like "mass murderer" deserves its own article, so does "spree killer." The terms serial killer, spree killer and mass murderer are different things, no matter the overlap. The Spree killer article can consist of a lot of scholarly detail and does not have to be regulated to a list. List of rampage killers can cover "list of spree killers," like it already does, but that article's lists also need to be edited to distinguish mass murderers and spree killers. Preferably by subheadings. Because the way it is now...you can barely tell who is a mass murderer or spree killer. Flyer22 (talk) 21:01, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

text: Agree  The definitions of rampage and spree are similar, albeit rampage has the negative connotation of out-of-control or violent/inappropriate behavior.  "Spree" doesn't.  But when you add "killer" to "spree", it is clear that you are talking about essentially the same thing as a rampage killer: A time-limited period of multiple murders.  So I think the articles can be combined, although that will take significant work (but probably worth it in terms of subsequent maintenance).  I may try it once I find the time.  It is worth noting that in the USA at least "spree killer" is the more often used term.Gerrymeander (talk) 07:21, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Gerrymeander, the List of rampage killers is not just covering spree killers. It is also covering mass murderers. Experts generally distinguish these terms. I can see the point in merging this article with that one if all this article will ever be is a list. But like I stated, it shouldn't just be a list and doesn't have to be. Flyer22 (talk) 19:00, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I had quite a few heated discussions with other Wikipedians about the actual definition of the term spree killer and I ended up avoiding it entirely, because it simply is so vague that anybody can interpret it to his liking. If you'd ask me what is the distinction between a mass murderer and a spree killer, I'd answer: It's absolutely arbitrary. This arbitrariness might also be the reason why laypersons and experts alike use both terms interchangeably most of the time.  That does not mean I am supporting the merge, though. But I'd suggest to cite more reliable sources, maybe add a section about the fact that the term is not always consistently utilized, and finally get rid of the list entirely, because it is too long and can never be anything but a POV mess, because people won't ever agree on a precise definition of the term. (Lord Gøn (talk) 21:14, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point and ideas, Lord Gøn. Although I'm not entirely sure that experts use the terms interchangeably most of the time. "Sometimes" is enough to see that there is difficulty in distinguishing, though. I see researchers being a lot more clear in distinguishing serial killers from mass murderers. They have more difficulty distinguishing serial killers from spree killers, yes, but they do distinguish often there as well. And, hmm, that they can distinguish the former easier than the latter either suggests that "mass murderer" and "spree killer" are different enough or that "serial killer" and "spree killer" are similar enough. Flyer22 (talk) 21:50, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

text: Agree and keep this one, it is sortable and does not exclude school killings, the other list is awkward. It cannot be sorted and is broken up by continent so you cannot do a global sort. If you want you can add continent here as a sortable field. Migrate ones there here that are nor represented. We need one master sortable list for comparison. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 16:26, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, the List of rampage killers actually is sortable, though apparently somebody couldn't resist tinkering with the sorting feature and now it isn't indicated anymore by those little arrows in columns that are using a different than the default background-colour. The fact aside that I don't see the purpose of a master list that throws everything together into one big block, a list like the one you propose, containing all entries of the List of rampage killers (which consists of about 1000 cases), would probably have a size of several 100kb and therefore be in need of a split itself. And btw, school killings are not excluded from the List of rampage killers, but have an entire section dedicated to them. (Lord Gøn (talk) 16:02, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge proposal 

message: A user didn't like the link
* Spree Killers (german)
do you agree? --Netpi (talk) 06:36, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: This was removed because it uses the word "Highscore" to rank the killings, which is in poor taste. Also, per WP:EL, the list largely ends up repeating information that is already in this article.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 06:45, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  External Link 

message: The question of whether this is or is not a spree killing is linked to the definition in the lead. Many of the examples in the table would fail this definition as well, eg the San Ysidro McDonald's massacre or the Pozzetto Massacre. Please don't introduce inconsistencies of this kind without reading the talk page debates on this issue first.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 18:31, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually there is another even more serious problem. WP:BLP. Many of the more recent examples on the list have the person listed as the killer,when some have not even had trials for the murders. WP:BLP is strictly enforced on wikipedia and I am actually surprised that no one has brought this up. We can continue to have a discussions on what is and is not a spree killing, but in the meantime, those violations of the wikipedia BLP policy need to addressed now. There is no other way around it.--JOJ Hutton 23:02, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I, for one, looked at the Talk page and didn't see a section on the Seal Beach shootings. The Seal Beach incident doesn't fit the definition, and is not labelled as a spree killing. Looks like a no-brainer to me. Seems people are too eager to jump to a conclusion without first considering the appropriate label. And perhaps the San Ysidro massacre and the Pozzetto Massacre should be removed from the list. I'm ok with that. I also agree that if the suspects haven't been found guilty (or died in the event), then they might need to be removed as well. Boneyard90 (talk) 08:55, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: If I had the time, I would be WP:BOLD and merge all of these with List of rampage killers. The U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics definition of a spree killer is a guideline, and it would be better to have all of these cases in one place. The alternative is to be bold in this article, and to remove all of the examples that could be seen as failing the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics guideline (eg the San Ysidro McDonald's massacre.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 09:03, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Until you have time to propose a merger between the two articles, with discussion, then it would be best to adhere to the definitions and distinctions already set down in the articles. If the list needs to be culled, so be it. Boneyard90 (talk) 09:21, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The article has been proposed for a merger since August 2011, and there is a discussion at Talk:Spree_killer#Merge_proposal. The vote is locked at 4:4, so we may be stuck with deleting the entries that are seen as causing the problem by failing the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics guideline.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 09:36, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Seal Beach shooting 

message: I notice that someone is adding Palestinian attacks to this list. They maybe spree killings but they are primarily acts of terrorism because there is a political agenda behind them. They are not the work of a lone individual or is killing for an indeterminate personal reason. IMO all attacks labelled as acts of terrorism should be removed from the list as they primarily motivated by political ideologies. They therefore can be explained whereas a "true" spree killer is spontaneous and is doing for themselves without any pre-existing/recognised reason for going on a rampage.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.150.225.8 (talk) 12:51, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:TERRORIST becomes involved here. Some of the attacks by Palestinian militants may have difficulty qualifying as classic spree killings, because the people involved believed - however misguidedly - that they were doing a political or religious cause some good. The Greysteel massacre in Northern Ireland in 1993 is also an example of this phenomenon. I am tempted - subject to the obvious potential for controversy - to remove some of the attacks by Palestinian militants that have been added, although the Cave of the Patriarchs massacre is an example of an attack of this kind carried out by a Jewish person.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 13:07, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for discussing this point. As an IP all hell would break loose if I made the changes. I am sure this is the same discussion that goes on regarding rampage killers, too. Again the name is too ambiguous. To me it conjures up the psycho, who for no apparent reasons, goes out and kills indiscriminately anyone who unfortunately crosses their path (avoiding being captured for as long as possible) whereas a rampage killer is more concerned with carnage and doesn't care about themselves. Again, it might for all intense and purposes merge both articles to do away with such ambiguities.
===The table is an utter mess===
Just taking a closer look at the table only reinforces the fact that no one seems to have a consistent and clear idea what a spree killer is. There is one entry regarding the man who drove his car into people at the Dutch Royal parade in 2009. How on earth is that a spree killing? It happened in one place. Likewise under that consideration, what about the psycho Japanese man who drove a van into crowds in Akihabara in 2008, then got out and started stabbing random people? In my view these are rampage killers who are intent on maximum harm. The table is a mess and should be redone with a clear message at the top clearly defining what a spree killer is. In that case:
# they killed at more than one location
# there was no "break" time between killings
# they acted on their recognizance
# they did not belong/associate with any terrorist faction/organization.
In those respects the Norwegian murderer Anders Brevik was not a spree killer but a politically-motivated terrorist. Others might disagree but until there is a clear point-by-point consensus on what IS a spree killer, this list is going to keep growing with more and more irreverent entries. Eventually, and I have seen happen before on Wikipedia, the whole things becomes trivia. By then it could probably list every killing that ever happened....17:26, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Terrorists are not spree killers...dicuss here first then delete them 

message: Just taking a closer look at the table only reinforces the fact that no one seems to have a consistent and clear idea what a spree killer is. There is one entry regarding the man who drove his car into people at the Dutch Royal parade in 2009. How on earth is that a spree killing? It happened in one place. Likewise under that consideration, what about the psycho Japanese man who drove a van into crowds in Akihabara in 2008, then got out and started stabbing random people? In my view these are rampage killers who are intent on maximum harm. The table is a mess and should be redone with a clear message at the top clearly defining what a spree killer is. In that case:
# they killed at more than one location
# there was no "break" time between killings
# they acted on their recognizance
# they did not belong/associate with any terrorist faction/organization.
In those respects the Norwegian murderer Anders Brevik was not a spree killer but a politically-motivated terrorist. Others might disagree but until there is a clear point-by-point consensus on what IS a spree killer, this list is going to keep growing with more and more irreverent entries. Eventually, and I have seen happen before on Wikipedia, the whole things becomes trivia. By then it could probably list every killing that ever happened....17:26, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: The table is an utter mess

message: The second sentence of this article asserts that the US Bureau of Justice Statistics has a definition for spree killing and cites a local South Carolina newspaper as a source.
However, "spree killing" does not appear on the list of definitions the Bureau provides.
A quick Google search shows that the second sentence has been quoted a lot in the past few days, so getting it right seems of value. However, an authoritative definition from US Law Engforcement proves illusive. 
Without a good replacement definition, I'll leave it to other who have worked on this page to decide what, if anything, to do about this.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stannenb (talk • contribs) 16:00, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The source looks OK, the difference between a spree killing and a serial killing is the lack of a cooling off period. In response to the section above, the difficulty in pinning down spree killings led to the proposed merger with List of rampage killers, but there is no consensus for this.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 18:47, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cited source for definition of spree killing 

message: I've removed the addition of this and I will be watching the page all day.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by TychaBrahe (talk • contribs) 15:57, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Can I ask why? I understand the trials are ongoing, but isn't is fact that 12(+) people died?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by BeyondPerception (talk • contribs) 17:01, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: By definition, a spree killing takes places in more than one location.  Had the shooter left the theater and shot people on the street outside, or gone to another location to continue killing people, it would qualify.  By being confined to a single location, it does not.  The alleged shooter is already listed under mass murderers, which more accurately describes this incident.TychaBrahe (talk) 17:26, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: With all due respect, I think you are making too fine a point of "the more than one location" part of the definition.  There are +20,000 news references that refer to the killing as a "spree".  That should be enough support to include it in this list.--Nowa (talk) 11:46, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not too "fine a point", it's the only point of consequence that separates spree killings from mass murders. One location only means not a spree killer, period. Just because a lot of sloppy journalists and pseudojournalists with blogs call is a spree doesn't mean it is one. Wikipedia has for years had just bloody awful articles on this topic and related topics simply because people are using sources written by people who have no clue what they are writing about and are not even close to being experts on the topic. Wikipedia should be an encyclopedia, not a rehash of the dreck the mass media is putting out. DreamGuy (talk) 14:11, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: You seem to have very strong feelings about this.  Why is the distinction between "spree killing" and "mass murder" important?--Nowa (talk) 14:26, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: You could just as well ask why the difference between homicide and manslaughter is important.  The definition of a spree killer comes from the people who work to understand why people commit such crimes. *They* have determined that there is a difference between mass murders, spree killings, and serial murders, and since this is supposed to be an encyclopedia, where people come getting answers rather than just a body count, the difference should be recognized. 24.15.213.209 (talk) 15:04, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with Tycha, DreamGuy, the last AnonIP. Not a spree killing. Doesn't belong in this list. Boneyard90 (talk) 15:42, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: That was me, sorry.  I didn't realize WP had logged me out.TychaBrahe (talk) 15:51, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: You’ve convinced me.  I took a look for other references that define spree killing and found this interesting paper  DeLisi et al, “The Starkweather Syndrome: exploring criminal history antecedents of homicidal crime sprees” Criminal Justice Studies, March 2008  It generally supports the academic definition that "spree killing" occurs in two or more locations.  --Nowa (talk) 17:00, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aurora, CO, Theater Massacre 

message: Wouldn't that be a better title for this article ? (like Murderer is a redirect to Murder) DexDor (talk) 20:58, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure what you mean. The article about murder is titled Murder, not Murderer; so your example doesn't register well to me. Similarly, the article about the topic of serial killer is titled Serial killer, as it should be, not Serial killing, and the article about mass murder is titled Mass murder, not Mass murderer. I believe that "Spree killer" is the WP:COMMONNAME for this article, meaning that it's used more than "Spree killing." Flyer22 (talk) 18:17, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rename to "Spree killing" ? 

message: *Do Armed Citizens Stop Mass Shootings? A history of intervention attempts., Slate, 18 Dec 2012.  
This article presents an interesting history, by a mainstream media source, one not known for conservative bias.  Cheers.  N2e (talk) 23:01, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Information from that article is better suited for the Mass murder article. Flyer22 (talk) 23:23, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Do Armed Citizens Stop Mass Shootings? A history of intervention attempts. 

message: I reverted the Template:Globalize that  added to the article. This is because, as Template:Globalize states, "This tag should only be applied to articles where global perspectives are reasonably believed to exist (e.g., that people in China have a different view about an idea or situation than people in Germany or South Africa). If additional reliable sources for a worldwide view cannot be found after a reasonable search, this tag may be removed." The term/concept spree killer, much like the term serial killer, has mostly been studied in the context of American society. The term/concept spree killer is even more so limited to American society. I'll let the IP know that I've reverted and will point the IP to this section. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 19:56, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Template:Globalize