Talk:Death march

message: :I think the factor is the intended killing to make it "Death March". But, in colloquial language, I would call the retreat a Death March. That wouldn't be correct, but it would give an instant image. Hope I could help you, I post that on you Userpage, too, so you will be noticed. :-) --DocBrown 22:35, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But is there intention??? See below.--Jack Upland (talk) 00:58, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: factor is the intended killing

message: Maybe we can find some? I'll try. --Tom 22:45, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources for this article?

message: Could we please add information about the Tiger Death March in Korea?  Very famous one, too.  24.214.79.87 (talk) 19:50, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the march warrants its own article, but I question whether it was a death march according to the current definition - see my comments under Fact or Propaganda?--Jack Upland (talk) 00:58, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Tiger Death March

message: The article gives examples of death marches without saying what a death march is. --Thenickdude (talk) 11:47, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Definition?

message: The various population transfers of the conflict in the Levant involving competing religious groups shouldn't leak onto this part of Wikipedia. I am removing the talk of Lydda and Ramle until there is more evidense. ProudTeslaDriver (talk) 09:28, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia is an encyclopedia based on published reliable sources. There is the reliable source cited, "The Oxford companion to military history" published by Oxford University Press, and there is you. You are not a reliable source. Do not remove reliably sourced information from the encyclopedia. If you would like to add reliably sourced content that challenges the description, do that. Sean.hoyland - talk 15:15, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: There isn't a need for this attitude. ProudTeslaDriver (talk) 07:18, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Huh? There is absolutely the need for an attitude which favours WP:RS. Cheers, Huldra (talk) 18:37, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Since the reliable source reads "On 12 July, the Arab inhabitants of the Lydda-Ramle area, amounting to some 70,000, were expelled in what became known as the 'Lydda Death March'." this is an accurate summary of a factoid relevant to this article. Carolmooredc  (Talkie-Talkie) 01:44, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: As I argue below, the label itself is politicised.--Jack Upland (talk) 00:56, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  If the Oxford University Press called it a death march in quotes, that isn't enough. How many people died? That's important if we want to call it a death march.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.187.216.93 (talk) 04:39, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Politicized labelling of death marches 

message: The definition in the introduction currently is:
:A death march is a forced march of prisoners of war or other captives or deportees with the intent to kill, brutalize, weaken and/or demoralize as many of the captives as possible along the way. It is distinguished in this way from simple prisoner transport via foot march.
Did this ever really happen? Surely it is not an efficient or effective way of killing, brutalising, weakening, or demoralising captives. Surely what are called "death marches" are in fact forced marches in which a lot of people die. A case in point is the Tiger Death March in the Korean War (mentioned above). This was part of a process in which prisoners were transported from Seoul to Pyongyang, to the Yalu River, and then further inland up the Yalu. The intention was clearly to prevent the prisoners being liberated as the UN forces swept into Korea, driving the Korean People's Army up to the Chinese border or into the mountains. If they had simply wanted to kill them, they would have just massacred them at the start, rather than waste troops and resources. In addition, according to George Blake's account, when the surviving POWs reached their final destination, he was well-treated, being accommodated in a farmhouse and being given reading materials etc. Even when he tried to escape he wasn't ill-treated. So it wasn't a "death march" under this definition. I am not sure of the details of the Japanese-run "death marches", but it seems unlikely they could factually fit this definition.--Jack Upland (talk) 00:49, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Or is a "death march" a forced march where a lot of people die?--Jack Upland (talk) 06:42, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fact or Propaganda? 

message: I never said it wasn't an expulsion of civilians. That's different than a death march though. Death marches are intended/result in significant deaths. There is no evidence this was the case. Again, it doesn't meet the criteria set for similar pages. --Monochrome_Monitor 13:38, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: MM, you have tried deleting this three times in the last three weeks. That is what is known as a slow burn edit war. Please respect consensus. If you want to change consensus, you will need to encourage wide discussion. Oncenawhile (talk) 09:10, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revert (Pluto) 

message: "In January–April 1945 at least 100,000 Polish Silesians were deported to concentration camps, labour camps and nuclear testing facilities (Semipalatinsk Test Site) in territories occupied by the Soviet Union, most in the Ukrainian Donbass region. Until October–November 1945 further death marches were performed."
The sourcing on this is questionable. The number of 100,000 is not sourced - is this original research? The references are to the sites/concentration camps themselves, and not about the way internees reached their destinations. (BTW, one of the sources is a web page of a music band - http://sbb-music.jimdo.com/ - ??) 
Also, by looking the listed concentration camps, it appears that some of them were on Polish territory and housed primarily Volksdeutsche. See: Zgoda labour camp, Jaworzno concentration camp. Perhaps they were removed from Silesia by the Polish Communist government (with Soviet approval) as 'undesirable' or 'collaborators'? We have to remember that Polish borders were expanded westward as sort of a 'compensation' for the territories it lost to the Soviet Union in the east. In any case, the situation appears much more complex than the impression one gets from the current paragraph as "Soviets were exterminating Poles via death marches." The sources listed do not support it. 
Thoughts? --K.e.coffman (talk) 22:07, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The sourcing seems to relate to the movement of Sorbs, not Silesians. According to this, Sorbs were moved to camps in Silesia, Silesians to camps in Eastern Ukraine (the Donbass).--Jack Upland (talk) 02:09, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  I plan to remove this section as not relevant to the topic of death marches and/or not supported by sources, unless someone objects. I'll give it a few days. --K.e.coffman (talk) 02:57, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm removing the section in question. K.e.coffman (talk) 08:23, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Polish Silesians deportations? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Why is the Greek Death March not included on the death march page? A link from the Greek genocide brought me to the page yet it doesn't list it. Wikipedia has more on Armenian Genocide Earthgodess53 (talk) 22:47, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Greek genocide.  

message: I am wondering why it doesn't include the horrible Death Marchers​ of the Grecian people? My Grandfather was born during this period. I see more about Armenians. Why is this the case Earthgodess53 (talk) 22:49, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why doesn't this include the Greek Death March it includes Armenian? 

message: the content added is not supported by the source: 
*After the initial captivity near Stalingrad they were send on a "death march across the frozen steppe" to labor camps elsewhere in the Soviet Union. 
There's nothing here about "After initial captivity near Stalingrad..." or "elsewhere in the Soviet Union": The Second World War: Europe and the Mediterranean. 
:What's in the book seems to be a generalised statement whereas "death march" is used as a figure of speech. I'd suggest finding a better source that discusses how and why these were death marches. K.e.coffman (talk) 09:14, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think this should be included. The quote from Beevor given above is not about a march. According to Beevor, the main reason German POWs died was that they were in poor health when they were captured and the USSR had made insufficient preparations for taking on the large numbers of prisoners that they did. It was not that the USSR was trying to kill them (in most cases). The problem was that Stalingrad was in the middle of the steppe, a long way from any other major city. Much of the USSR's industrialised areas were devastated or under German control. The German POWs needed urgent hospital care, but there were no hospitals nearby and very few functioning transport networks. If they stayed they would die; if they marched they would die.--Jack Upland (talk) 09:55, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: That was my own wording based on the two sources.  It's obvious that they were brought to "elsewhere in the Soviet Union" is they were marched across the frozen steppe. But sure, the timeline for the 6th Army POWs could certainly use more details and sources. If the phrase death march was used in the West Point military history series and elsewhere, I'd say it's due there's this very short mention of two sentences here for Stalingrad. Note that there is a separate article for Death marches (Holocaust). The scope for this article is broad. --Pudeo (talk) 10:12, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Additions

message: According to this book, the characterization of the executions in and around Bleiburg as a "death march" is a talking point developed by post-war revisionists to draw a moral equivalence between the Partisans and the fascists they fought against.  Amanuensis Balkanicus (talk) 17:29, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Bleiburg