Talk:Safi-ad-Din Ardabili

message: I looked some of books. And All of it writing that : İranian intelligentsia said for Şeyh Safiyüdin (Safi-ad-din Ardabili)patron saint of Turks (Pir-i Turk - Türklerin Piri)...     —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.254.207.178 (talk) 16:05, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: User:HistoryofIran The edit I did was pretty clear. The sources I gave already say what happened. You have no reason to take it back. You're deleting sources like Bartold and Petrushevsky.--85.104.66.21 (talk) 11:45, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: What you have done is very questionable. None of the sources seem to have called Safi Turkic, but the Safavid family Turkic, which isn't wrong, considering they were Turkicized Kurds by the time of their advent. But for some reason you are claiming that Safi was Turkic as well, which is misuse of sources. There is no dispute for the original origin of the Safavids, which was indeed Kurdish, and is acknowledged by the majority of scholarship. --HistoryofIran (talk) 11:51, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: The first citation simply translates to The victory of the Safavids in Persia and scine repercussions on the Shiites of Anatolia in the 16th century. The two last citations, both by Riza Yildirim (who I can't confirm the reliability about) simply quotes a passage about Safi, where he seemingly isn't even talking about his origins / trying to argue about supposed Turkic origins. Hephthalites and Sogdians are called Turkic as well by contemporary historians, doesn't make them one. Also here's what Roemer actually says about the Safavid origins in the Cambridge History of Iran vol 6 (1986, page 214); “the Safavid Shah combined in himself the blood of both Turkmen and Iranian ancestors. It is irrelevant, therefore, whether the founder of the dynasty, Shaikh SafI, was descended from Iranian dihqans, from 'Ali, or from Kurds, since Isma'il himself was connected equally with the military and the administrative aristocracy” No mention of any Turkic origin for Safi whatsoever. Are we done here? --HistoryofIran (talk) 12:01, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: what she(Hanna Sohrweide)  wrote in the first source is indicated in the third source. Also, what does Turkish pir or Turkish youth mean? Can you say? It is an ethnicity. Also you have no reason to revert Bartold and Petrushevsky.--85.104.66.21 (talk) 12:20, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, read my comment up above. Sorry but so far you have (whether by accident or not) misused most of these sources (if not all) to state something they're not. I would advise you to read the guidelines here. --HistoryofIran (talk) 12:22, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

text: Sorry but you have. I just read Riza's work, he isn't even arguing about a Turkic origin for Safi, but when the Safavids became Turkicized (people are free to read it here (). He quotes Sohrweide, who says that Turk was meant a synonym for “beautiful” in the work, which you for some reason omitted. And which page I am to read in the German work by Roemer? Also I posted the Cambridge History of Iran because it was written by Roemer 30 years later than this work, so it gives a better view of his current opinions. --HistoryofIran (talk) 12:37, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

text: It's on page 158. The author states that "Turk" was used to mean "beautiful. In other words, it wasn't used as an ethnic designation. Armanqur (talk) 10:22, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  my edits 

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