Talk:GIMP/Archive 1

message: Intended as a free replacement for Photoshop, the GIMP has not challenged that program's industry dominance in the print world, perhaps for any of the following reasons:
* the professional preprocessing of print graphics is hindered by the GIMP project's inability to license the patents on industry-standard color mapping schemes
This is very weird statement. With exception of one country there are no software patents in the world, so if this was the real reason, it would be widely used in Europe, and I don't see it being much more popular in Europe than in USA. Taw 12:14 Feb 19, 2003 (UTC)
Which country would that be? There are no software patents in the US, but a judge has upheld a patent on software granted by the US patent office. Similarly, the patent offices in Europe and Japan grant patents on software, whether these can be upheld or not. branko
The whole "free replacement" paragraph looks bias. There are two speculative points I'm going to remove now:
* Some say the support of digital tablets .. is superior in Photoshop.
Some say ...?
*  Many people are doubtful of .. free software.
I tend to disagree. nikai
I think it's failed because the interface is awful and the windows port not part of the official releases.
It's a joke to talk about industry dominance when the gimp team has always treated windows like it didn't exist.
66.87.1.3 03:38, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Industry dominance 

message: Hello 151.148.136.103, here's why I reverted the following two of your changes:
1. You changed The GIMP is quite popular [...] into Because it is free and cross-platform, The GIMP is quite popular [...]
Have you got any proof, for instance based on polls, that this is why the GIMP is popular?
2. Unlike most other similar programs, GIMP can be controlled by writing a program, not just interactively. A Scheme interpreter is built in, but Perl, Python, Tcl and (experimentally) Ruby can also be used.
became
Many other programs can do batch processing of files, but The GIMP excels by providing not just a Scheme interpreter built in, but Perl, Python, Tcl and (experimentally) Ruby extensions.
First, I don't like the word 'excels', because it is a qualitative statement. Although I don't mind such statements in an encyclopedia per se, they need to be used when you can be sure that a lot of people will agree. (Or when you want to be provocative, but in a collaborative encyclopedia you can then be sure that your text will be changed.
Second, script-fu is for automating anything that can be done with GIMP functions. This is not just batch processing, as a matter of fact I would say batch processing is only a small part of the tasks script-fu and the other scripting extensions are used for. The old text mentioned the batch processing, your version did not mention all the other tasks that can be automated.
Third, I don't agree with your suggestion that the GIMP is the best tool for batch processing, and others with me. If you will check the GIMP newsgroup or the GIMP IRC channel, you will discover that a lot of the times when people ask 'how do I script this so that I can batch process it', the answer is 'don't bother, use ImageMagick/IrfanView/what have you'. Apparently, for a lot of tasks these tools are better than the GIMP for batch processing.--user:Branko
----
I am 151.x.x.x;
1. I don't object to the first change. You are correct that I have no polls to indicate this is why. I don't even have any proof that it is popular at all, considering how subjective that word is. It's certainly _not_ popular on Windows. It does seem to be popular on Unix, but thats a small chunk the of the graphic design world.
2. I was elaborating on the previous batch processing content. I'm sorry I didn't add more on other script-fu uses. I use it for batch processing. I do not use it for generating dynamic web page graphics, etc. Someone who does can feel free to write about it. Omission is in the nature of this project. If I eliminated a comment hinting that it can be used for more than batch processing, I apologize.
I was comparing The GIMP to other "image editing" programs (not batch processing progs), I'm sorry I didn't make that clear. I'm sure that programs written specifically for batch processing are much better at batch processing. But again, they are really not, as those programs you mentioned really don't have the abilities of The GIMP, maybe 10%. I still feel that The GIMP is excels at this (I also don't feel this means it is the "best", but is really good) because it offers far more image manipulation features, not the least of which is extensive layer handling. It may be easier to automate certain tasks in other programs, but The GIMP is more flexible and comprehensive.
By the way, I resent the implication I was trying to be provacative. 
: I am sorry if I suggested you were. With (1) I felt you were not being factual, with (2) I felt you were a) removing important information about the nature of Script-fu and b) were misrepresenting the importance and role of the GIMP in batch-editing raster images.--user:Branko
I hope I didn't come across as liking The GIMP too much, because I really don't. The interface sucks--it's terrible. It doesn't have the wide range of plugins available on Photoshop. I only like the fact that it can be automated on my Linux server, doing batch processing of files outside of photoshop.
I do a bit of digital art--digital art pad support in The GIMP is substandard. (disclaimer: its been a long time since I tried this, The GIMP may have substantially improved since then). I think I would be hard pressed to see any digital artists switching from Photoshop (or Painter) to The GIMP.
It's really no substitute for Photoshop. I've avoided writing this in the article thus far because though it is a fact, but is provacative with many people that bluntly, don't understand everything that Photoshop does. Print work is the biggest part of what Photoshop is good for (indeed, web based work or paletted graphics are weak in photoshop) and the GIMP has _no_ claim against photoshop in that area.
I've but minimal formal training in the graphic design world, having changed my Major after a year and a half to something I liked more, programming. I do however maintain friendship with several others who do now work professionally. I was talking about the GIMP to one of them, a newspaper man--when I mentioned The GIMP had no CMYK support, he laughed out loud. He might enjoy his job more not having to deal with CMYK plates and color matching errors, but he would be far, far less productive.
What I'm saying is that I didn't really perceive my statements as non-NPOV, because I don't even like the program, though I use it. You sound like you work with it more, and I defer to your changes. Incidentally, what server is this IRC chat room on? I actually would like to try using my artpad in it again, and wonder what the support is like now (the The GIMP FAQ maintainers don't know).
:Let me give some background too, then. I am not an artist, but I am a GIMP-contributor. I show my face in a lot of GIMP forums (the newsgroup, the developers' mailing list, the IRC channel, the GUG's forums, the GIMPI mailing list), and my experience is that almost without fail people, including the core developers and power users, refer others to software like Image Magick and Irfanview when these others want to do batch processing.
:Granted, the latter tools are much less verstatile than the GIMP, but for the actual purposes we get questions about they are more than adequate (file type conversion, image scaling, adding captions, etc.). The extra functions of the GIMP are mainly usable in an interactive environment. You cannot batch-retouch photos, for instance, you have to do that manually.
:The IRC-channel can be reached at irc.gimp.org (port 6667). Search the GIMP news group (news:comp.graphics.apps.gimp) on http://groups.google.com for the make of graphics pad, perhaps someone else had the same problem. 
:Good luck and thank you for your extensive answer.--user:Branko
------
I'm a photographer and I've just downloaded gimp and install it. I agree that one of the reasons GIMP is not a professional tool like Photoshop, is that photoshop can do accurate color management for print (press) work. Gimp is very good to develop web photos and personal prints, not for press work. It needs good ICC profile color management (CMYK, RGB, LAB), pantone integration and a monitor calibration tool like Adobe Gamma.
I understand ICC and calibration, but why would it need Pantone Integration ? Isn't Pantone just one way of doing something ? Or is it needed for "familiarity" reasons ?
:A little thing called industry standards. In a sense, it is just one way of many to do something, but then so is the English language. Given the need to precisely specify colors across projects and between different media and applications, support for the industry lingua franca is a must. Hex codes or HSV (or RGB w/out CM) will not suffice.
:But, then, without CMYK support in the first place, it's almost beside the point. 69.211.126.39 16:51, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  151.x.x.x 

message: it's not a dog, not fox, not mouse, then what is it? A gimp = spirit??
Is there a larger size of the mascot logo? i.e 200x200? Xah Lee 22:30, August 19, 2005 (UTC)
: It's Wilber. There are some images at , but I can't find the page on his history.  Ojw 11:59, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  GIMP mascot 

message: We've got a section that has been variously named "Limitations", "Limitations against Adobe Photoshop", etc. 
# Why not just "Comparison with Adobe Photoshop"
# Why not move the whole lot to Comparison of bitmap graphics editors?
# If it were to stay, do we need Limitations compared with [next-best product] sections on all the other bitmap graphics editor pages?
Ojw 11:59, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Limitations 

message: I downloaded GIMP for Windows and need help. My help files were not included in the download. Where might I download these files?
----
First of all, Wikipedia talk pages are not help forums. Second, sign your comments. Third, use Google (or whatever else search engine) to search for such help.
BDWill Talk Contribs 07:22, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help files? 

message: so is wingimp just selling a free product? if so, why link to it? It will only help its placement in google searches. There are 1000s of sites that sell free things on the internet, and none of them deserve the attention of wikipedia because they are all crooks.
Later visitor: Agreed, so I'm deleting it.  If someone cares enough to restore it, we can ask them. --Crid 04:36, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  WinGimp 

message: This section seems kind of out of place. For one, it doesn't mention that this is an
issue on Windows (I assume it's windows, as I've never heard of it). It's also
specfic to particular versions and distributions of GIMP. Alikins 20:04, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  File Association trap section 

message: The Mac screenshot looks nice and all, but it's using X11, so doesn't fit in with the usual Mac look (menu bars on windows, etc). Does anyone else think that a screenshot of it on native GNOME would be better? --Shen 14:09, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Screenshot of GIMP on OS X 

message: How does Windows XP's  "group similar windows in the taskbar" affect the GIMP interface?  Does it solve any of the problems with GIMP using lots of windows, or do people still prefer to use separate desktops, X-Windows-style? Ojw 22:50, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number of windows 

message: The three small images of Wilber above the screenshot are confusing. Without reading the filenames, it's impossible to realize that the first two icons are specific to certain operating systems and not the general logo. Wouldn't it be much better to just display the one official logo, if there is one? Is the first Wilber in this image usually accepted as the GIMP logo? Herorev 04:06, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  logo 

message: I am trying to make maps with GIMP, and was succesful at it (see Lucius Paullus). The problem is that i don't know how to change the colours. I know how to use colours that are part of the original picture, but i haven't been able yet to get new colours into the picture. Another problem is that in my attempts to change the colours, i clicked on many things and now it appears that i the changes are remembered by GIMP and i don't know how to reset them. I am not a programmer and have very limited experience in mastering programs. The reason that i was able to master GIMP is completely based on simple Microsoft experiences. The only thing i need to make my maps better in the future is the ability to change colours and to reset changes to the program.--Daanschr 09:11, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have figured it out. Now i have to decide which of 16.7 million colours i will pick.--Daanschr 11:29, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Sorry for the late reply, but it sounded like you were using an indexed colour mode originally. That can be useful for quickly changing colours later. Just allocate an index for each type of element (text, outline, land, water, road, border, etc). However a vector-based program like Inkscape would ultimately be more appropriate for creating/editing maps. Imroy 11:59, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  People, please understand that this is not a bloody forum! It is a discussion page for the creation of an encyclopedia article. Use Google for your support needs. Lgrinberg 05:03, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Newby 

message: The article says GIMP is compatible with the .psp format, but I get an error message saying "unsupported PSP file format version 5.0", so apparently it's not completely compatible. If anyone could say with what exactly it is compatible, that would be a nice improvement to the article. Ergbert 03:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  .psp