Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Dates and numbers/Archive 14

message: I noticed that Japanese calendar refered to CE specifically as the Christian Era and not the Common Era.  I would prefer the latter as it seems less POV (does not label a 2000 year period as belonging to a single religion) but checked the manual for what wikipedia says on the issue.  While the manual does address BC/BCE  and AD/CE,  it does not address Christian Era vs Common Era.
What is the concensus here?  Asteron ノレツァ 00:47, Jan 25, 2005 (UTC)
My own preference is for "Christian Era", because it's more accurate.  The dating system involved isn't common, as many countries and cultures use their own systems; it is, however, directly related to the Christian system of dating, and is as widespread as it is because of the dominance of Christian-based cultures. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 09:28, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Christian Era is the more common terminology. The reason it is also the "Common Era" is because (in the area and time in which the term was coined) almost everyone was Christian - so the Christian Era was Common to all. Of course, nowadays many, such as Mel Etitis above, question why such an obviously Christian terminology is still used, jguk 21:23, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that you probably meant to refer to the area and time in which A.D. and B.C. were coined (though in fact they were coined at different times, and more recently than is often realised — but that's not the point), as Common Era is surely a recent coinage.  As an atheist I don't in fact care whether the dating system is referred to by religion-specific terms (any more than I refuse to use the terms Tuesday, Wednesday, January, etc.).  Out of politeness to those who do care, I use C.E. and B.C.E. though; I expand it to Christian rather than to Common Era because, as I said, I think that it's more accurate. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 22:37, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

text: I'm unsurprised that Common Era was coined by Christians, but my comment was that it was recent (and thus not, I think, coined at a time when almost everyone was Christian); that's a trivial point though.On the question of C.E./B.C.E. being "academic speak", I'd agree that it's a usage more commonly found in books (but then I rarely use it in conversation, and certainly not non-academic conversation...), but certainly not restricted to academic books.  A very quick look through recent popular books that I have lying around (so not a scientific test, I grant you) indicated that it was slightly more common than the traditional alternative, and a quick Google suggests that it's widely used outside acadaemia.  Besides, I think that anyone who read, for example, that Descartes was born in 1596C.E., or that the Battle of Hastings is widely thought to have taken place in 1066C.E. would have to be pretty dim to be misled (especially if they can look up C.E. in the same encyclopaedia). Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 09:25, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Descartes' birth doesn't need CE or AD - it's assumed. The issue really only arises for events before 0 AD/CE. And putting 999 BCE may be confusing for people not familiar with it, whereas most people know BC. And since the entire calendar is based on Christian history, does it really matter whether abbreviations (rarely if ever expanded) use Christian terminology or an unfamiliar vaguely neutered version of it? Unless we adopt a new calendar, 999 BCE is barely any less Christian than 999 BC, whatever BCE stands for. Rd232 11:15, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)

text: I'm not sure how the newer terminology is a neutered (however vaguely) version of the old (especially as in general you seem to be saying that there's no real difference in their Christian nature).  Nor is it unfamiliar to me, nor to a great many other people.  Perhaps that's a matter of geographical/cultural context, but I'm an academic in the U.K., and as I type I'm looking at a popular, non-academic book published by Barron's in the U.S., and we both use B.C.E. rather than B.C..  Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 20:25, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Christian Era vs. Common Era