Talk:U.S. state constitutional amendments banning same-sex unions

message: Needs info on '96 federal DOMA. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.80.159.239 (talk • contribs) 
:No it doesn't, that's the Defense of Marriage Act. --Hyphen5 07:36, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point, I'll try to get that info. --Hyphen5 07:36, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: March 2006

message: It would be nice to say how many states have passed such amendments, and which states they are.  I moved some info here from the Federal Marriage Amendment page because it is about state amendments, not the federal amendment.
--Fagles 01:26, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: cleanup

message: If there are no objections, I'm going to move the article to "State amendments banning same-sex unions." "Defense of marriage amendment" is POV, and since it's not the term generally used by reliable sources, WP:POVTITLE does not apply. Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 03:47, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The term is used generally by reliable sources as explained previously on Talk:List of U.S. state constitutional bans on same-sex unions by type and sourced in said article. Boldness is nice but waiting just three days for name changes on articles where people (like me) might not look every day is too little and looks like a way to push a name one might like better. Hekerui (talk) 19:31, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you point out where in the article your claim is sourced? I see one source where the term's first occurrence is in scare quotes; nowhere do I see a source that says the term is in common usage, nor is that claim reflected in actual sources. "One use" =/= "common use." Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 19:36, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

text: "not generally used by reliable sources" is quite a claim since one can produce lots of examples easily by typing "Defense of marriage amendment" in the google news archives. The discussion of whether a name change should be done should not rely on this and "no one objects" in three days. Hekerui (talk) 19:40, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

text: I suggest deleting whole article sections should be explained on the talk page rather than "discussed" in an edit summary. Improving this article would require some source work as opposed to merely scrubbing a certain wording. Hekerui (talk) 19:46, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: A great many of the GNews hits are in scare quotes, indicating that the source does not endorse the wording. What exactly is the problem with a neutral title, pray? Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 19:52, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the name is a common name and a reasonable search term that easily identifies what the article is about whereas "state amendment banning same-sex union" is not common and because of the usage of the ambiguous "same-sex union" not as clear and descriptive. Moving it with the condition of not on objecting on a three day deadline is not really consensus building, but imo applying the bold principle without a good enough reason. Again, the discussion can be had; you might have thought this change was obviously better and didn't need much discussion, which happens. Best wishes Hekerui (talk) 20:13, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It's still searchable on a redirect. But in the absence of a common name used by reliable sources, we should use a descriptive name as the title of the article. (Yes, it's clunky, but WP:POVTITLE, ie. non-neutral but common names, does not apply in the absence of a "significant majority of English-language reliable sources" that prefer the current title.) Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 21:01, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree, we shouldn't conjure up article titles when perfectly fine ones are obvious. And the name is not "absent from reliable sources". Regards Hekerui (talk) 08:54, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: You seem not to realize that "defense of marriage" is not a perfectly fine title by WP standards, and that "presence in reliable sources" (largely in scare quotes!) does not equal "presence in a significant majority of reliable sources." Now that this has been pointed out, would you like to comment again? Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 15:49, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: We had that discussion already and I reject the reasoning. I'm against using a made up title to be more PC and that position is consistent with WP standards. Hekerui (talk) 15:59, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortunately, this is a case where Wikipedia's standards support the title you deride as "PC" - I've already referred you to WP:POVTITLE, which requires a significant majority of RS using the term in order to surmount ordinary POV rules. I hope you'll read the policy and realize why it applies, but in the meantime, I'll open a requested move. Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 16:05, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Title 

message: I restored the article to the version before any mention of "defense of marriage amendment" was scrubbed from it in order to prepare for a move. I also restored content removed without a proper discussion. Hekerui (talk) 09:24, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Content removal

message: As Quigley notes, there were few substantial changes - my edit consisted almost entirely of changing the POV language to conform to the new title. There was also removal of some minor redundancies. The only major change was the removal of the section on constitutional amendments in other countries. I don't think it belongs in this article: while, as "constitutional amendments banning same-sex unions," they have superficial similarities, the fact that they are on a national level and most of the article content deals with such amendments in subdivisions of nations with their own constitutions (ie. U.S. states) makes them slightly out of place. It's potentially a good topic, but I think it would have to be its own article. Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 03:13, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: You merely re-deleted the content. The closing admin stated that the title is not currently U.S. specific because of some links about other countries, therefore removing content that concerns regions outside the U.S. doesn't make sense. If you want to make it U.S. specific you have to do some actual work sourcing and improving the article, which you haven't done. Hekerui (talk) 11:40, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: As I stated in the paragraph directly above your comment, which hopefully you read, I didn't remove it for the sake of conformity with the title, but rather because it doesn't belong in this article. "You didn't discuss it in talk" is not a valid reason to revert, and wouldn't have been even if that statement were true - what is your objection to the removal of the content, which, as I've said, is similar only in name given that it concerns national laws and not regional laws? Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 17:56, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: My reason? How about the closing admins reason? Now you cleaned the article from foreign topics, then why the vague title? It's not specified what countries' states are meant, it's not clear that the amendments don't band SSUs but their legal recognition, which is a huge difference. I can find no interest in improving the content beyond changing a title to something that's obviously nonsense. If you want me to take of it, say so, otherwise contribute something other than pressing the undo button when someone objects to unexplained removal of content. Hekerui (talk) 16:54, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Now that I look over "What links here," it appears to be all U.S.-related pages in spite of what the admin said, so neither you nor zie should have any problem with moving the article to "U.S. state...." as I suggested during the move discussion and removing the irrelevant section. And, as I said elsewhere, this "but they only ban legal recognition of same-sex unions!" is a silly argument; no one interprets "Maine bans same-sex marriage" to mean "Maine says you can't have a legally nonbinding marriage in a synagogue." And you should be the last person to be complaining about me only undoing other editors' changes. Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 18:37, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent revisions 

message: Moving this from "U.S. state constitutional amendments banning same-sex unions" to "Former U.S. state constitutional amendments banning same-sex unions" didn't make any sense. The amendments are to my knowledge still part of the various state constitutions, they're just unenforcable. It's also unnecessary verbage in general. -LtNOWIS (talk) 19:07, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article move 

message: I'm not seeing a need for these two articles to be separate. Both are not incredibly long, and one being merged into the other would better enforce the main topic of these articles. Steel1943 (talk) 18:27, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. Hekerui (talk) 18:31, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed merge of [[List of U.S. state constitutional amendments banning same-sex unions by type]] with [[U.S. state constitutional amendments banning same-sex unions]] 

message: I removed "and/or Constitutional Recognition of Same-Sex Unions" from section 4.5 because it's this effect of the repeal is not in the scope of the list and it makes the listing less clear. Hekerui (talk) 21:02, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Wording

message: :File:Marriage amendment animation.gif has lots of value for this article despite not having been updated for Nevada yet. I requested an update by the creator on 6 November 2020 without response. Unless the person removing it can update the page it does not make sense to remove the animation. Hekerui (talk) 12:34, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Graphic

message: 2002 Nevada Question 2 cannot be listed as an amendment that recognized same-sex marriage. The wording of this section makes sense because of the article subject. Hekerui (talk) 13:14, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Repealed amendments