Talk:Alumni

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thread_title:  [[User:LinkBot/suggestions/Alumn|Link suggestions]] 

message: I'm noticing Alumn** being used with former faculty members who were NOT previously students.  I don't think this a correct usage, is it?  Before I start changing categories and articles,  I thought I'd ask here. --Samuel Wantman 20:20, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Recently, the definition of "alum" has expanded to include people who have "matriculated at" or exited from any kind of organization or process. As such, one can potentially be a "corporate alum" of XYZ Company, or an alum of a military branch, non-profit organization, or training process.
--Macrakis 22:08, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Faculty 

message: The article was recently moved back to "alumn" despite the above discussion, so I thought I'd update the Google figures to make sure they're still valid.  In all cases, I searched for the phrase "college alumXX" and its plural, not just the word, e.g. [college-alumn | college-alumns].  Alumnus/i has 2700k hits; alumna/ae has 125k; alum/s has 37k; alumn/s has 0.5k.  So alumn remains very rare compared to the alternatives, and the forms alumnus/i/a/ae are 83 times more common than all the other forms combined.  So it seems clear that the article should be named using that form.  Using alumnus alone seems inappropriate because it is masculine; hence alumnus/a. --Macrakis 17:31, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Updating Google statistics

message: I'm currently in need of more info about this issue. Can anyone show any evidence that alumni now actually admit matriculated students etc? I've met resistance at my own university about this topic.
--Thomasrm 21st of february, 2006
:I too would like to see more evidence/etymology on alumni being a broader term that includes those that did not graduate. Even if the dictionary definition on this point is correct, it's not usually the way it's used in public, and I think this point needs much more explanation. Wl219 10:34, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I also want to know more about this. As I look around the internet, I consistently alumni used to mean a graduate, or in a broader sense a current student, but never a drop-out. The ONLY usage of a dropout I see is a couple of dictionaries. Some other dictionaries specifically say it has to be a graduate. Rm999 08:20, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am 'public' and always suspected 'alumni' meant 'former student'. You can be an 'alumnus' (former student) simply by signing up and appearing in the classroom. 'Graduate' is university-specific term for the hallowed gown-donning moment at the end of three consecutive years on a BA, MA and so on. If 'alumni' simply means 'graduate', then what of the 'drop-outs' you might otherwise have spent one, two, or more years at a school or other institution? Some of these 'drop-outs' may, far from having been a complete failure, actually received, on leaving, an 'exit award' for their troubles, for example of a Certificate of Higher Education' (to use UK parlance...) instead. Not all university students in the world are degree students, and a 'certificate' is a perfectly valid university award, even though 'graduate' would not technically be the term with which to describe them. Remember that (in Britain/Europe, at least), 'alma mater' has also been known to refer to primary schools, secondary schools etc... and nobody "graduates" from school. Apart from artificially airbrushing peoples' rightful educational associations out of history, what else do you consider them? MRacer 17:58, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Inded. I have a non-degree award from a university (specifically studied for, not a consolation) - am I a "graduate" of that institution. The term "graduation" was never used for any ceremony involved (which I never attended anyway) and AFAIK I'm not called a "graduate" of the institution. But the use of the term "alumni" by the institution most definitely includes me. Timrollpickering 22:52, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: At my alma mater, I don't *think* you are invited into the alumni association unless you graduated. Rm999 11:55, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Yes, this is common for validated degrees and, historically, where the university is an examining university rather than a teaching university. The University of London, for example, was an examining board that awarded degrees but did not do any teaching until 1900. As an example of validation, students on the Common Awards are students of their theological college but will become graduates of Durham University on being awarded their degrees – the regulations are, however, quite explicit that they are not students of Durham University. Robminchin (talk) 21:06, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: alumni <nowiki>=</nowiki> graduate?

message: Someone just moved the article back to Alumn. Was there any discussion? --Lukobe 04:35, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, there was no discussion. I updated my statistics above, and will move it back. --Macrakis 17:32, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The recent move 

message: *An alumnus is a person, especially a boy or man, who has attended or is a graduate of an educational institution.  The plural is alumni.  An alumna is a girl or woman alumnus.  The plural is alumnae.   
I think this is very neutral.  It doesn't say alumnus is only for a boy or man.  It says a person, especially a boy or man.  I think it is very clear.(209.177.21.6 - Talk)
::Well first of all alumnus is the "masculine form" and typically does refer to a male graduate.  The sentences "the plural is alumni" and "the plural is alumnae" are sloppy, choppy, and not very clear.  I would like to know the exact issues you have with this intro:
::An alumnus (masculine) or alumna (feminine) is a person who has attended or is a graduate of an educational institution. The masculine plural, alumni, is often used for mixed groups and the masculine singular is sometimes used generically. The feminine plural is alumnae
::That's what I am mainly curious about -- why do you not like this.  I think this is more correct because it is true that in Latin, alumnus is the masculine form and alumna is the feminine form.  This intro goes on to describe the words in terms of their Latin forms which makes sense.  Instead, your version of the intro assumes that the masculine form must be applied to someone who qualifies as a "boy or man" and the feminine form must be applied to someone who qualifies as a "girl or woman."  Also what is the difference between girl or woman and boy or man?  When does one switch from a girl to a woman and a boy to a man?  It seems a bit vague and arbitrary to describe it as such.  Also the term especially seems favoring.  It seems (moreover since these words come from Latin) that it makes more sense to discuss the words in terms of their word forms, not in terms of who the terms are used to address -- at least in the opening.  The usage section of the article goes on to discuss the actual common usages of the terms.  Please respond to the questions and further explain.  Your above explanation was a bit vague.  Thanks. Nadsat 23:15, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Still, it seems much more logical to talk about these words in terms of their forms i.e. masculine or feminine - and the USAGE should go under the usage section.  See?  This is only the intro of the page, the words have certain masculine or feminine forms but technically if a "man" wanted to call himself an alumna he could couldn't he? He would be using the "feminine" form but he COULD call himself an alumna.  Thus, your version of the intro is very vague. Why don't you find references and add the discussion of the usage of the masculine/feminine word forms to the USAGE section.  That seems more logical doesn't it? Also, as previously stated: The sentences "the plural is alumni" and "the plural is alumnae" are sloppy, choppy, and not very clear. N.B. - I relocated your response so that it is below my response and above my new response so we can keep the posts in chronological order.  It makes it more clear and less confusing for everyone (including me!)Nadsat 20:44, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  viewpoint 

message: Are there any sources for this word being used for the non-gendered plural? I know I've heard the word alums used.
-- trlkly 09:13, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Is a citation necessary? Is it worth mentioning? Since "alum" is a singular, people will sometimes add "s" to make it a plural without even thinking about it... and "alumni" is gender-neutral as well as number-neutral for all but the sticklers (when used unmarked in English, after all, it's an English word, not a Latin-ruled one, and that's all most people know) —Isaac Dupree(talk) 14:10, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alums 

message: In many places the word alumni is being used as "former members of a company" and not former member of an educational institution.
It would be interesting to add this to the main article. The article could also mention, whether this is 'common and wrong usage' or whether the meaning of alumni has been enhanced.
I'm no English speaker and can't comment further. Surfing the internet alumni can often be seen as  'ex-members of a company' (for example in LinkedIn) --192.88.172.35 (talk) 10:56, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Merriam-Webster concurs with you, stranger. Maikel (talk) 17:54, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alumni more and more often used in non academic context 

message: ... are great, but please don't mention them directly in the text, as in "The 1856 edition of Rev. Worbely's Companion To Good English For the Lower Classes states that ..." as this makes the article a PITA to read.  That information belongs to the ref-tag.  Ta, Maikel (talk) 17:53, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations 

message: Two of the last few edits to the article claim that usage of the words "Alumnus", "Alumni" etc is rare. Even if this were true, verifiable sources would be needed to make such a claim in the article. See WP:OR and WP:VERIFY. Here and here are the edits in question. Perhaps the editor insisting the word is rare just has no need to encounter it. I come across the word far too often to call it rare. I've removed the dubious claim. (WP Editor 2011 (talk) 01:25, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, I think you might have reverted the most recent version without reading it fully. It said "Alumnus and its variants were chiefly used in US English, but since the 1980s they have become common in British English too."    You're right that the word isn't rare now, but the OED and other dictionaries say that the word is "chiefly US". I made the mistake of thinking that it was still rare, but User:Cj1430 pointed out that it has come into use in the last 25 years or so, and he and you are of course correct. However I didn't think that the final version was incorrect. Of course, I'm not sure whether I can find a reference for it, so you can always object on OR grounds. Regards, Dingo1729 (talk) 03:40, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I did read the most recent version and I doubt it just as much as the others because one user's recollections from 30 years ago aren't trustworthy and don't deserve to be mentioned in an encyclopaedia. Even if few people used the word 30 years ago, so what? It's not as if the word didn't exist. It comes all the way back from Latin. (WP Editor 2011 (talk) 04:59, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: This seems to have got twisted around. The fact that alumnus is "chiefly US" is verifiable to the OED, a reliable, authoritative source. I was trying to modify that by what is probably OR to say that it has come into greater use in British English. Would you prefer that we just go with the OED statement or shall we modify it with something like your OR that it is now in common use (which I'm not disputing)? Dingo1729 (talk) 14:56, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: It wasn't original research when I said alumnus isn't rare; it's in every dictionary and used by probably every university. The Oxford Dictionary's claim that alumnus is "chiefly US" adds no value to the article and is not necessarily true anyway; I've seen plenty of mistakes in the Oxford Dictionary. For example, the OED says invite can be a noun, façade can have a c instead of ç and one can wait on something to happen. There is no need to make any comment along these lines in the article. (WP Editor 2011 (talk) 01:19, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

text: Will you also tell the administrators about how you just ignored the talk page and changed the article anyway? Don't ask me to state my objections; I already did. The word is not rare, it probably never has been and to declare in the article that it's uncommon not only adds no value to the article, but it would also discourage people from using the word. Just because you don't like hearing what I said doesn't give you permission to ignore the proper process and change the article to whatever you want. (WP Editor 2011 (talk) 06:15, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Alumnus" is '''not''' rare 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: My name is Glenn Lott. ‘75 graduate of Drake University’s School of Journalism and Mass Communication. I was captain of Drake University’s 1974 and 1975 Football teams. I was All-Missouri Valley conference my junior and senior years. I was a college football All-American my senior year, and I played in post season All-American football games. I was drafted in the 2nd round of the 1975 NFL College Football draft out of tiny Drake University by the Buffalo Bills. I played for Buffalo and the Detroit Lions. I am considered a veteran of the NFL. I was the 50th player drafted of more than 350 college athletes. I also played in the CFL for the Montreal Allouettes in the 1976 Grey Cup. 
You might ask why do I tell you these facts ( dates may be off)? I tell you this because I continue to get mail from Drake’s athletic department, alumni department and it’s “gofundme” department. But when my family members and friends read Drake’s notable alumni they fail to see my name. Yet there are other names for CFL and NFL play. I was under contract in Buffalo, Detroit and Montreal. The other Drake athletes listed performed no better than I did on the professional level. WHY ISNT MY NAME LISTED. Glenn346 (talk) 02:52, 15 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Sir, this is a Wendy's 194.83.163.215 (talk) 15:33, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable Alumni 

message: I just undid revision 991643435 by 2600:1700:5C2:3410:ED1F:5F5A:2F32:E45B. The reverted edit had added added the following section:
* an alternate and possibly more accurate etymology of the word: Alumni/alumnus comes from the Arabic word "alim" meaning "a knowledgeable person" which is evidently more relevant to the meaning to "alumni" but hey what do I know? Obviously I'm not as knowledgeable as the white men who rewrite history to make themselves seem superior
This explanation is uncited, clearly violates NPOV, and is extremely implausible. The word is well established in Roman Law, predating contact between Latin and Arabic. The original sense of the word is also a "fosterling", not related to the Arabic, but naturally following from the PIE etymology (which consists of two morphemes that are both well established in Latin and elsewhere in the exact sense we see them here) Tristanjlroberts (talk) 21:43, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pseudoetymology 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: Moved. As per discussion, the ngram provided by Vpab15 indicates a higher usage for Alumni than that of Alumnus. The discussion also mentioned that the word "alumni" has also been used with "Alumni of women's universities and colleges", as well as "more common usage". Per WP:COMMONNAME,  Thus, I find consensus for the move. (non-admin closure)  Wikiexplorationandhelping (talk) 21:16, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Alumnus →  – "Alumnus" is the male version of alumni, making the decision to locate the article here rather than at "Alumna" a clear instance of the male as norm phenomenon, and one that could potentially confuse readers about whether the article's scope (i.e. whether it also covers female alumnae). Per WP:Manual of Style#Gender-neutral language, a guideline, we should be  Therefore, it's desirable to move this article away from its current title if possible.
There are two main alternatives. The first, "alum," is unfortunately still considered informal and appears to be popular mainly in the U.S. and Canada. For the second, the plural form "alumni," we need to consider WP:Naming conventions (plurals). That guideline advises normally using singular titles. However, it allows an exception for , and alumni arguably fall into this category because the former students of any given institution are almost always considered as a group. It also notes the option to , which I think is relevant if one disagrees with my interpretations of WP:PLURALS. If we end up having to choose between adhering to WP:PLURALS and MOS:GNL, I think it's more important to adhere to MOS:GNL given the factors above.  talk 05:46, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

text: But alumni is still male, even if (according to the male-normative rules of Latin grammar) it takes in mixed groups; the female plural is alumnae (which is used by women's colleges). I'm all for finding a gender-neutral alternative, but swapping in a plural male noun for a singular male noun doesn't really help with MOS:GNL. Alum is certainly better from the gender pov, but suffers from only being a word in North American English (and from Alum already being taken by the chemical term). Robminchin (talk) 06:00, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Irrespective of its Latin roots, as a loan word in English, "alumni" has substantially fewer gendered connotations than "alumnus". For instance, note that we have :Category:Alumni of women's universities and colleges.  talk 08:48, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 27 September 2022