Talk:Joanna of Castile

message: I have usually seen this woman called Joanna in English, not Joan, and since she is the only queen of Castile by this name, she should be at Joanna of Castile. (Compare Victoria of the United Kingdom. Note also that other lonesome I's of Castile, such as Isabella, should stay I since Spain used the dynastic numbering of Castile and (for example) Isabella I of Castile was followed by Isabella II of Spain.) Montréalais
I am confused.  Her name in Spanish is Juana which translates to English as Joan.  I think calling her Joanna is inaccurate.  What other sources refer to her as Joanna? Saucybetty
:I've heard her called Juana Bruja (the Witch).  Trekphiler 08:54, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: See Joanna.  English, being particularly rich in doublets of Christian names, has many synonyms for this one.  Thus "Jane the Insane" or "Crazy Joan" would be valid, though cruel, translations for "Juana la Loca".  "Joanna" is older than these, in English, and is also used in other languages, so it's at least as reasonable a selection as the others.  Jim.henderson 16:24, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "Crazy Jane" is a figure in several poems by William Butler Yeats, as well as a painting by 19th-century mentally ill artist Richard Dadd and a character appearing in DC Comics. Perhaps Juana la Loca's ghost has been haunting Western civilization in one form or another ever since she was so royally screwed over... Johanna-Hypatia 11:30, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Jane & Joan

message: Currently the article states her death to have occurred on 4/11, but this is in conflict with wikipedia versions in Catalan, Dutch, German, and Italian. There is some discussion in de wikipedia about this. According to Townsend Miller (Ref) she died in the morning hours of Good Friday, 1555, that would be 4/12/1555. Ekem 19:48, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Death on April 11 or 12, 1555?

message: Why isn't Joanna known (1516-55), as Queen of Spain? GoodDay 21:15, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: At that moment the concept of Spain  evoked the territory of the ancient Roman province of Hispania. The different kigdoms in the Iberian Peninsula remained separeted until 1707-1715 with the Nueva Planta decrees.David gonzalez garcia (talk) 11:06, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: 1516-55

message: This is inaccurate. The last native Spanish ruling dynasty in Castile was the one whose direct male line ended with Alfonso VI in the 12th century. Alfonso's daughter, Queen Urraca of Castilla and Léon, was married to a Burgundian count. Their offspring were thus French on the paternal line, and known as the House of Burgundy. 
The House of Burgundy was later supplanted by the "bastard" Trastamara line in the 14th century. The Trastamaras also came to control the Aragonese throne in the early 1400's, with the accession of Ferdinand I. So on both sides of the family, Juana's dynastic lineage was already of foreign origin. --Carlos 17:04, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "Joanna was the last of the original Spanish royals; after her, all royalty on the Spanish throne was from houses that had come from abroad"

message: No contemporary or modern author described her as thus either.  Wikipedia can't make outrageous claims like this.  24.255.11.149 (talk) 06:12, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Joanna never claimed the title Empress of the Romans 

message: If she was only de jure? then in that case George III of the United Kingdom, was dejure UK King from 1811 to 1820. GoodDay (talk) 03:09, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Prince of Wales didn't get to start being George IV in 1811, as far as I'm aware.  Juana's son, on the other hand, was not only de facto ruler, but actually King. john k (talk) 01:20, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Queen of Castile

message: I've never seen her called anything but "Juana" in sources written in the last 50 years.  Where are we getting this anglicization from? john k (talk) 01:20, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, according to Google Book Search, Joanna of Castile is used more often than Juana of Castile. Surtsicna (talk) 16:53, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

text: Perhaps you're right. But if we move the article to Juana of Castile, wouldn't we create some sort of inconsistency (since we have Isabella, Ferdinand, Philip, Catherine instead of Isabel, Fernando, Felipe, Catalina etc)? Surtsicna (talk) 22:54, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I know what you mean but there's plenty of inconsistencies no matter what direction you go.  I think we have to follow what's being done in the pertinent references.  Personally, I'd like to see more use of original names but for the best-known historical figures, it will be a long time coming. Glendoremus (talk) 01:28, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Joanna, really? 

message: Text in the first paragraph of this section states that Juana was kept in a windowless room; however, the second paragraph says that her daughter Catherine - who had no choice but to stay with her mother:  
had nothing to do all day, her only entertainment was to look out of the window
 
Can this discrepancy be resolved?
Ed8r (talk) 17:03, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: There are many sources which confirm that Joanna was kept in a windowless room and I haven't been able to find a source for the sentence you quoted. Therefore, I'll remove it. That's certainly better than having such contradicting information. I'm amazed how you spotted it, though. Surtsicna (talk) 18:10, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

text: I think there's some confusion caused by the fact that the prior palace was turned into the Convent.  Based on your sources, I will fix the article.  --Jayron32 18:03, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  inconsistency in Imprisonment section? 

message: From time to time one comes upon the most astonishing remarks in Wikipedia. I gasped in disbelief when I read the following statement, which appeared not once but twice, in two different sections (I've now deleted one entirely):
:"...she was merely clinically depressed or schizophrenic at the time, not 'insane' as commonly believed."
Good grief. All I can say is that nobody familiar with the subject could ever entertain the idea of putting the word "merely" in close proximity to either "clinically depressed" or "schizophrenic", as there is nothing mild or slight about those afflictions. 
Obviously the offending word can be excised quite easily. But the fact that that word was used at all raises a serious question about the accuracy & reliability of the rest of the sentence as well -- especially when there is no citation provided to support what was written. I hope a knowledgable editor will take on the task of reviewing (and possibly rewriting) these passages -- with citation(s) -- ASAP. I'll check back in a week. Regards, Cgingold (talk) 12:18, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This made me laugh: "Most historians now agree that she had melancholia,[21]:9 severe clinical depression,[21]:9[22] a psychosis,[22] or a case of inherited schizophrenia.[21]:9[22]" Jeez, make your mind up! That's hardly agreement, and how do historians know this stuff? They can't. Best to observe that she was considered by her contemporaries to be suffering an instability of the mind and was therefore confined.Shtove (talk) 18:47, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merely schizophrenic?? 

message: Twice this is mentioned:
*She would not see her mother or siblings again, except for her younger sister Catherine of Aragon in 1506, as the Queen of England.
*Leaving Flanders on 10 January 1506, their ships were wrecked on the English coast and the couple were guests of Henry VIII and her sister Catherine of Aragon at Windsor Castle.
Henry did not become king until his father's death on 21 April 1509, and Catherine did not become queen until he married her in June of 1509. 
Were Juana and Philip received by Henry VII (whose queen had died in 1503)? Did she get a chance to see Catherine, who at the time would have been the Dowager Princess of Wales, and pretty much stuck in a corner until Henry VII figured out what was the most convenient thing to do with her? Lizbetann (talk) 07:50, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sister Catherine was not QofEngland in 1506. 

message: Not quite sure of this one, so don't pounce on me if I'm mistaken. In one part of the section titled "Philip's death", there are a few lines that seem to be discombobulated. The lines in question are as follows: 
"Joanna was pregnant with their sixth child, a daughter Catherine (1507-1578). Peter (1488-1490). By 20 December 1506, she was in the village of Torquemada in Castile, attempting to exercise her rights as Queen of Castile to rule alone in her own name."
The italicized words are the ones that are confusing. Why are they there? Is there a part of the article that I've overlooked or is this in the wrong place?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by GeorgiaWillow (talk • contribs) 01:37, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Philip's death" error? 

message: I recognize some of the potential reasons for preferring File:Meister der Magdalenenlegende 002.jpg to File:Juan de Flandes 003.jpg, but they should be articulated, if not here than in the edit summary, and the caption must be altered if necessary. The current picture is from her youth; the other pictures that have been tried are, no doubt, from later on. Lockesdonkey (talk) 05:33, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page image 

message: I don't know how to add to an article, so I'm requesting William Mortensen's Johan the Mad be mentioned in the legacy section.  Google it or check it out here http://www.flickr.com/photos/ajourneyroundmyskull/3168313353/  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.187.105.90 (talk) 03:12, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Legacy in the Arts please add William Mortensen's Johan the Mad 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This page is relying heavily on primary sources, and on very dated Spanish language sources, some of which are so poorly cited they are incomprehensible.  Surely there are recent books on Juana that can be relied on, but all of the cites to letters and stated documents represent prohibited Original Research. Agricolae (talk) 23:25, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Ref 3 gives the bibliographic information as "Smwmwm. E*tado. CastiUa" which is complete gibberish.  The last two words are Estado Castilla - any guesses what Smwmwm might be? Agricolae (talk) 16:09, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  quality of citations 

message: The section entitled "Rebellion against her mother's Catholicism" is entirely incorrect. The only source cited in it is historian G. A. Bergenroth, who published a treatment on Juana which proposed that every previously published contemporary account of her life was part of a conspiracy on the part of her parents, her husband, and her son to deny her the crown of Castile. Like every good conspiracy theorist, Bergenroth either ignored all evidence that didn't fit his theory, or he included it in the conspiracy. I've read Bergenroth, and while I will freely admit, his theory is compelling, it is Wikipedia's obligation to present a neutral point of view, and Bergenroth's certainly isn't that.
Besides neutrality, the article section suffers from major errors: "By 1495, Joanna showed signs of religious skepticism and little devotion to worship and Catholic rites." Uh, source? The word "skepticism" literally never appears once in Bergenroth. (For that matter, neither does the year 1495!) The closest thing I can find has to do with Juana's later life, after she spent years in solitary confinement and appeared to stop caring about things in general. The letters of Mosen Ferrer that mention la cuerda were written in 1516, by which time Isabella had been dead for 12 years, and they describe recent events. The article, however, sandwiches the mention of la cuerda in between two sentences about Isabella, implying that the torture was done at her direction, which is entirely false. The letters complaining about Juana's "refusal to confess" were written by Spanish friars sent from Isabella while Juana was living in Flanders - they were annoyed that she would only confess to local priests and not to them or in their presence. The reality of it is, as I see it, Juana was simply a young newlywed attempting to keep her mother's nose out of her business. Let's not go making her out to be a victim of the Spanish Inquisition over that.
I feel that this subject deserves a much more accurate and balanced treatment. I don't feel that I'm the right person to write it, because I've only recently started examining it myself. I've just read enough to know that a neutrality warning needs to be added to this section, and I hope I've adequately made that case. DavoLWS (talk) 17:28, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV tag on "Rebellion against her mother's Catholocism" 

message: I am a bit confused.
Joanna inherited Everything from her parents, Such as Queen of Leon Queen of Castile, Queen of Lower Navarre, Queen of Aragon, Queen of Naples, Queen of Sicily, Queen of Majorca, Queen of Valencia, and the County of Barlocia (sorry if I spelled it wrongly)
But on the list, it says only Queen of Aragon and Queen of Castile not other inheritance that she got from Ferdinand and Isabella. 
it might just be me.
Thank you
:The kingdoms (plus county) you mention were constituent parts of what were termed 'crowns' - collections of administrative kingdoms (and other units) under a single monarch (not to be confused with 'crowns' used simply as a synonym for 'kingdoms'). These were the Crown of Castile (Castile, Leon, Galicia, Toledo, Grenada, Jaen, Murcia, Seville, Asturias and Biscay) and the Crown of Aragon (Aragon, Barcelona, Valencia, Sicily, Sardinia, Corsica, Naples, Majorca, Minorca). Thus saying she inherited the crowns of Castile and Aragon covers all these polities. The only outlier is Iberian (not Lower) Navarre, which had been conquered by a combined Castile-Aragon army under Fernando just a few years before his death and still in administrative flux, but it represents a minor constituent (when we talk of Charles I succeeding James as King of England and Scotland, we don't mention the Channel Isles or the Isle of Man, even though they were part of the inheritance). Agricolae (talk) 00:08, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Joanna’s inheritance to other Crowns.