Talk:Heavy metal genres/Archive 4

message: It would be helpful to me if the following bands were either classified or explicitly not classified for some reason:
* Anthrax
* Pantera
* Sepultura
--Crag 20:18, 2004 Mar 1 (UTC)
:I believe they are all considered thrash metal bands. Tuf-Kat 22:03, Mar 1, 2004 (UTC)
:Anthrax is considered one of the 'Big Four' (Anthrax, Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer) of Bay-area thrash. Pantera has played a number of styles, including speed and power metal (their lesser known earlier albums) and are considered 'groove metal' by some metal purists. I wouldn't recommend using Pantera as seminal examples of any genre. Same goes for Sepultura, who went from death/thrash, to thrash, and now make what most consider hardcore. --Egregius 16:47, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

message: Anyone else think there needs to be one using the wikimedia engine? The only thing resembling that is Encyclopedia Metallum, but that's run by some childish fools who embody the stereotypical burnout metalhead kids everyone mocks. Contact me for more info MetalGoodness 03:16, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps. However, i dislike that it would probally be run by idiots just like those on The Metal Archives, aka, Encyclopedia Metallum. However if yew start one, i will help. I however do not endorse it as a Encylcopedia, nor do i endorse you avertising it on Wikipedia. Ley Shade 12:36, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

text: I disagree because its full of wrong information, mis-catagorisation, and insults to bands and fans. Most of what is on there is 99% crap. Ley Shade 21:43, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Just a word on the Encyclopedia Metallum, Ley Shade, I actually think it is the most reliable web source on metal. Honestly, better and more accurate than most of what's on Wikipedia (one reason for this is of course that there is no bio on the bands, just dates, names and other easily verifiable stuff). I use it all the time as a reference when looking for info on metal bands and never found anything wrong. However if I'm wrong to do so, please show me an example of misinformation on it, I'd really hate to base much of my info on a wrong source. Thanks --IronChris 02:38, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Heavy Metal Wiki 

message: I know I'm getting old, but this seems like a step too far. --Phil | Talk 17:06, Apr 7, 2004 (UTC)
:I was about to say the same thing, but it does get 23000 google hits... Tuf-Kat 04:37, Apr 8, 2004 (UTC)
:: it's up for AFD now Spearhead 21:48, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Good. Every band will be making up some genre name for themselves to try to market their band as being "original" if this so-called genre isn't rejected.
I happen to think that many of these terms are going to far but wikipedia isn't about how things should be its about how things are and the fact of the matter is like it or not people or atleast jernalists like to clasify things, as for the term math metal i thought it's ussually refered to as mathcore as it grew pretty much out of the grindcore sceneUnregistered text offender 13:35, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Math Metal 

message: I reverted the removal of the description paragraphs because I think they make the list much better. Tuf-Kat 21:46, May 3, 2004 (UTC)
Why use list descriptions when separate articles are available for all styles?
:Well, firstly because you've added most of the remainder in the past half an hour, and secondly as an index. -- Jim Regan 02:36, 4 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Descriptions

message: I'm missing viking metal. There's a wikipage for it. A genre pioneered by Bathory on their third album: Blood Fire Death.
--Egregius 16:47, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Viking Metal 

message: On the matter of genres, the band "Finntroll"(Finland) comes to mind as an example of what can be called Troll Metal.  Looking at this page www.fact-index.com/t/tr/troll_metal.htmlgives a larger list of what some consider Troll Metal.  Actually Finntroll can even be considered Folk Metal due to their inclusion of a Finnish Polka (Humppa) sound.  Please consider adding Troll Metal as another genre.
I would like those more knowing than I to consider adding "Otyg"(Sweden) and "Vintersorg"(Sweden) to the list of examples of Folk Metal.  Also, please consider adding the band "Einherjer"(Norway) as an example of Viking Metal.  Thanks.
the only reason why the term troll metal exists (and i might add its a derogetry one) is because mortiis dresses like a troll and because of finntroll's name. However mortiis is clearly industrial metal and as for finntroll and similar bands if they really have to be made into a subgenre of folk metal then it should be refered to as humppa or oommppa metal or if you want something that sounds less silly to western ears then polka metal. Unregistered text offender 13:43, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Bands go on the articles for lists of bands of a given type. As such all 'examples of bands' are going to be removed from this article to cease arguments. Ley Shade 14:08, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

text: for a start i do not think that argument is a bad thing secondly if you do feel the need to remove examples then perhaps you should only do so to the most contentsious examples and thirdly something should only be considered to be a genre when it has been siriously mentioned by a number of music jurnolists Unregistered text offender 14:09, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Addition of Troll Metal and ex. of Folk/Viking Metal bands 

message: Any opinions on what category Dillenger Escape Plan should belong to?
*Math metal.--KASchmidt 05:52, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Dillinger have nothing to do with Extreme Metal, apart from Extreme Metal not being a genre. They work and play in the Hardcore scene, if you want to split hairs over what form of Hardcore, the Hardcore article is over there *Points* Ley Shade 14:09, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  dillenger escape plan 

message: I think Hardcore should be 'promoted' to a fully recognized genre.  I know it's a big change, so I won't do it myself, but what do you all think?  It has grown by leaps and bounds in recent years, and nobody can doubt that hardcore is quickly generating a little subcultre (e.g., the very brutal pits as opposed to other genres one might mosh to, the "straight edge" attitude among most of its fans, etc.) 
*zelmerszoetrop (again)
:: This is a list of Heavy Metal genres, not Punk ones. Punk genres go on the list for punk genres, not this one. Hardcore is not going on this list. Ley Shade 14:10, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hardcore 

message: Shouldn't "goth metal" be in fusion genre box than in subgenre (and many say that there isn't even existing such genre)? Please make it more correct. 
 -Cs
: Thats because Gothic Metal has nothing to do with Goth Rock, and its petty people who try to make an association when there is none. Please try reading articles before asserting wrong claims. Ley Shade 14:11, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Goth metal 

message: There is currently a discussion going on about deleting Noise metal on the basis that it is not a notable genre of heavy metal. I ask the editors of this page to please join that discussion. Thanks. JoaoRicardo talk  19:33, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Noise metal]] on AfD 

message: Who the hell put those 2 in the article? Are you serious? It is a VERY well-known fact among metalheads that those 2 genres are not metal and never will be.
Nu-metal is obviously closer to rock than metal, and metalcore is definately core. Get your facts straight.
:Actually it's quite the opposite.  Nu metal is influenced by a number of other genres, but it's still a metal subgenre.  WesleyDodds 13:42, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  And Metalcore is counted by most as a subgenre of metal, only people who listen to metal bands who want to seem 'cool' to other older fans denounce the two genres as 'untrue' or 'unmetal'. Ley Shade 14:09, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

text: But metal is a genre of rock music.  WesleyDodds 06:40, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nu-metal / Metalcore? 

message: Epic metal isnt just defined by "keyboarding considered to be intense", as very few Epic metal bands even use keyboard soloes often. And it has absolutely nothing to do with Gothic metal, go do some proper research. It is basically a fusion of Power metal and Symphonic metal.
: Yeah, that would be known as, this. Thus your theory is pretty, wrong. Especially when half the bands considered 'epic metal' are Gothic Metal bands. Ley Shade 09:23, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Epic Metal 

message: As per massive correction of POV/incorrect info in the speed metal article, I have corrected it here as well. See the speed metal article talk page before any reverts - I have already discussed this with others as you see, and the speed metal article was giving off CONFLICTING information previously (ie. having its roots in power/thrash even though it predates the genres? 100% incorrect.)
: there is some conflicting information regarding speed metal vs power metal. the speed metal article says it is a cross genre of thrash and power metal, whereas the power metal explains that helloween is a prime example and mixes speed metal with old school heavy metal. Also AFAIK, the term speed metal (80s - megadeth and metallica were often called speed metal) is older than power metal which is more a 90s term. Spearhead 15:33, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Speed Metal 

message: In the article it states that metal enthusiasts think nu-metal is not an actual subgenre of heavy metal music, it should be noted that it seems to be extreme metal fans who are most common in voicing this opinion, the original fans of heavy metal are from the late 60s and early 70s... I have never seen, even after seaching extensively, evidence of them saying whether they think nu-metal is an actual subgenre of metal or not. thanks. - Deathrocker 09:37, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Regarding Nu-Metal

message: I, as a notorious fan of Rap Metal, would inform this article's authors that the reference about a genre such as this is in danger of being the most vandalized one here. In fact - but it's a foressen objection - I can easily perceive that most of the "tradtional heavy metal" fans cannot stand "commercial", "easy listening", "only-sex-focused" music (e.g. exactly rap/hip hop) and, consequently, can refuse to recognize Rap Metal/Rapcore as a "crossgenre".
For a start you should have put you're name in secondly the possibillity of people dissagreing with you isn't a reason to not say or write something even if they may allso vandalize it thirdly i have never heard it refered to as rapcore (though i can imagine the genre existing) and certainly not as the predominant term as that part of the piece suggests or implies. Unregistered text offender 14:02, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Rapcore is another name given to Rap Metal, which is used in conjuction with Alternative Metal to divide between Nu Metal bands that have Hip Hop influence, and those that dont. Ley Shade 14:15, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

text: rap metal seems to have come out of the hardcore and thrash metal scenes, i would imagine that groups such as "bad brains" could be refered to as rapcore where as "limp biscit" (atleast in their early years), and "hed (pe)" would be refered to as rap metal. also "korn" were in the past considered to have a strong hip hop influence but theve only ever been refered to as nu-metal. Unregistered text offender 13:33, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rap Metal 

message: it has recently said that aggro is another form of nu-metal this would mean that ministry is a nu-metalband which is not the case as they pre-date it by about 14 - 16 years and their current style pre-dates it by i think something around 6 - 8 years, i mention ministry as from what i know aggro metal or just plain aggro was invented [the term atleast] by ministry's lead singer Al Jourgenson to make up for the over use of the term industrial. Unregistered text offender 12:47, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: for more on that, see List of industrial music subgenres#Aggro-industrial --MilkMiruku 14:34, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

text: it has been suggested that aggro is a different type of nu-metal i was just trying to clear that up if its in the industrial subgenres then obviously belongs in here and i shall be rectifying this misstake forthwith. Unregistered text offender 12:29, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aggro 

message: Took off Alternative metal and nu-metal because they aren't genres of metal.
*I agree with the fact alternative metal and nu-metal (not to mention metalcore) and not true forms of metal. However I think a new section should be added, for metal that isn't strictly 'true metal' but has influences from it.
**Just moved around some of the genres to their rightful places without deleting them.
:Who defines what's a "true" genre of metal?  Nu metal and alternative metal are covered in a number of sources (particularly the ones referenced on Heavy metal music) as styles of heavy metal.  This seems like bias to me.  WesleyDodds 06:43, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wes, I think the "true" qualifier has something to do with the percentage of Gary Gygax inspired lyrics to sweep picking. maxcap 18:08, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I removed it. Please understand that the Melodic Death Metal article is currently under revision to be merged into the Death Metal article after it has been revised. Thus, it doesnt belong here. Good work anyways. 02:32, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Took off genres.