Talk:Kevin Beattie

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140413131748/http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/carlisle-united/beattie-will-pin-on-euro-medal-after-27-years-1.56939?referrerPath=carlisle_united%2Flatest to http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/carlisle-united/beattie-will-pin-on-euro-medal-after-27-years-1.56939?referrerPath=carlisle_united%2Flatest
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120806053113/http://www.englandfc.com/Profiles/php/PlayerProfileByName.php?id=95 to http://www.englandfc.com/Profiles/php/PlayerProfileByName.php?id=95
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: * The Carlisle station incident - use this gem 
* The toilet incident - use Groves
* A note that he also was nicknamed The Beat - use Groves
--Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 12:43, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  To add 

message: #() -  A shame, because I think it was a good page, but it's broken and wayback machine has nothing --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 12:01, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources 

message: I know he barely featured for anyone besides Ipswich, but the career section looks somewhat lopsided, is there any additional info we can find from his later club "career"?  The Rambling Man (talk) 17:15, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Club career

message: , I think this is easily good enough to go to GAN.  What do you reckon?   Or anyone else for that matter? The Rambling Man (talk) 21:11, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: , sure why not. We're aware of some shortcomings that prevent a run at FA in the near future and maybe GAN will pick up more, smoothing the path. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 08:35, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good article? 

message: I think we need a footnote that some source spell it Rafferty. I presume the book has it without the r? That'd be the most likely to be authoritative, IMHO. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 10:10, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the book uses Rafferty.  But interestingly Beattie said that "that was what he called him", rather than it being his actual name... The Rambling Man (talk) 10:19, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: So two reasons now for footnote! --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 11:01, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure we need it, he refers to him as Rafferty (with an r), and we could make it simple enough with "a Mr Rafferty".  The Rambling Man (talk) 19:32, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm... ---Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 20:55, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Raffety 

message: Was he really 15 when he went for the trial he didn't attend? What does he say in his autobiog about why he didn't travel across town? Money? Fear? And was he 18 when he signed for Ipswich? What happened in the 2-3 years in between the two? --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 15:29, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The trial he went to when he was 15, he did go to and was met at Lime Street, stayed at Phil Thompson's house, and was asked back to sign full-time.  The second time round he wasn't met, had nothing but his return ticket and his boots, nothing else, so he went back to Carlisle.  He got a letter a few days later with the conclusion "Failed to turn up".  It was LFC's mistake though.  He signed as an apprentice for Ipswich a matter of weeks later.  Youth team, then reserve team, then first team in 1972/73 (having been moved from striker to centre half by Mr Robson)..  The Rambling Man (talk) 19:32, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Much much better now. Does he say in his book what went through his head as he stood there like a lemon at Lime St? Did he think they'd changed their mind? --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 20:55, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: He just said he didn't know what to do.  A 15-year-old with no means, no mobile, no clue, and even an LFC fan said they weren't sure what he should do either, especially as the fan had noted that previous hopefuls had all been met at the station by LFC representatives.  I guess he felt 100% stood up and let down, and that seemed to coincide with an escape plan (the Carlisle train) pulling in... The Rambling Man (talk) 21:14, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Liverpool/Ipswich 

message: There's 9 years to go into that and it's the key encyclopedic part of his life, apart from the 9 caps. TRM, want to go the onerous course of expanding it, while I concentrate on copyediting elsewhere? Can go into more than one subsection. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 15:34, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: That's my plan.  May get an hour tonight and an hour tomorrow... we'll see.  All the repetition etc will need fixing after I'm done though... The Rambling Man (talk) 19:33, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Shaping up well, monsieur. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 20:54, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

text: Allan Hunter.  Robson referred to them as "Bacon and Eggs"... The Rambling Man (talk) 09:12, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Ooh good. We need that in the text (playing style? main copy?). Any chance of a photo of Hunter? --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 10:01, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ipswich career 

message: The visit to Carlisle when he should have been en route to Scotland for another U-23 match, is it better in the International section or where it currently is? The Rambling Man (talk) 15:11, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting. I think it was such a big deal (not that I recall, but I've seen a LOT of media coverage from it) that it might even be worth its own (sub)section, as a third option. --08:33, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Doing a runner

message: What does anyone think is needed here before we start to copyedit etc before FAC please?  The Rambling Man (talk) 17:50, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Info about his book? We barely mention it. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 13:03, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Well that's the book I have by Finch, it's his narrated autobiography. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:35, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

text: We don't have much about his wife and kids. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 13:04, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, that's fixable, he talks about his wife quite a bit.  He was her carer in later years as she suffers from MS. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:35, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

text:  I added some stuff here, including some tributes too and a call for a memorial at Portaloo, along with the existing Robson and Ramsey statues.  See what your copyedit makes of it all. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:06, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Beauty. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 09:00, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anything missing? 

message: , for you weave into something decent:
Margaret (Maggie), met her at a youth club in the late 1960s/early 1970s, "love at first sight" (Finch, p. 33).  Married her in 1974 (Finch, p. 54).  Featured in the 15 August 1974 Radio Times in article about "footballers' wives", they were still living in a "modest club owned house" (Finch p. 55).  The "going AWOL" en route to Pittodrie was recently after the birth of their first child Emma (Finch, p. 61).  At the time of the bonfire incident, Maggie was eight month pregnant, Beattie didn't want her to see him, rumours afoot that she had thrown a chip pan full of hot oil over him (Finch, p. 82).  Got homesick during their time in Norway, eventually returning to run a pub in Suffolk (Finch, p. 139).  Maggie was a florist by trade (Finch, p. 142).  Soon after Beattie's pancreatitis hospitalisation, Maggie herself became ill and developed diabetes (Finch, p. 147).  He and Maggie started working as "general help" at a Portman Road hotel, which turned out to be more of a brothel; he wouldn't tolerate her working there so they quit (Finch, p. 149). During mid-1980s, Maggie was diagnosed with MS and eventually confined to a wheelchair (Finch, p. 151).  Three daughters are Emma, Sarah & Louise (Finch, p. 151).  The Rambling Man (talk) 12:52, 19 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  I added some stuff here, including some tributes too and a call for a memorial at Portaloo, along with the existing Robson and Ramsey statues.  See what your copyedit makes of it all. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:06, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Beauty. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 09:00, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Wife

message: Details on his funeral.  There is some momentum behind him getting some kind of a memorial at Portman Road too, so that's worth keeping an eye on too.  Nothing should stop it being progressed to FAC, as it's all just simple facts and work in hand.  The Rambling Man (talk) 17:56, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Funeral/memorial 

message: Mick Mills also playing every goal in the season should be a footnote. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 09:20, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe you mean "every game".  The Rambling Man (talk) 09:40, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 14:58, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

text: I think the latter should stay (indicative of the quality of Ipswich as a whole), the former should probably be deleted, not relevant at all.  The Rambling Man (talk) 15:15, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Good call on both. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 15:22, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Changed my mind. Informing the reader that one other person did it helps them understand it's not the norm. If they don't follow football, they may not realise just how unusual it is, especially for outfield players. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 15:23, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: So what, you still want the first as a footnote?  COME ON MAN, WORK WITH ME HERE.  The Rambling Man (talk) 15:26, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't work with you! Don't be silly. Don't you know that you're impossible to reason with, uncollegiate, rude and erm, I've forgotten. Heck, I don't mind. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 15:33, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Footnote suggestion 

message: Why did the Stoke crowd get angry with Beattie when Hunter was the villain on that occasion? --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 09:35, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it was because the first broken leg pretty much scuppered Stoke's season.  This was the icing on the cake.  The Rambling Man (talk) 09:41, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I guess from your answer that there's no pithy and easily reffed explanation we can add to the article. In which case, let's leave it. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 09:52, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll take another look at the book later. The Rambling Man (talk) 10:00, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

text: The book doesn't really say much beyond the whole team pretty much scarpered at the final whistle to avoid a right kicking.  Which carried on outside the stadium.  The online source was where I got Robson's quote about him having to take on 28,000 spectators... The Rambling Man (talk) 12:53, 19 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Broken legs 

message: it looks okay to me, the only sticking point for me is "Beattie found himself unemployed. " starting that post-football section.  It grates.  Maybe this needs a little expanding based on a couple of the notes I made on Maggie above (e.g. running the hotel), but it needs splicing appropriately.  The Rambling Man (talk) 15:17, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, I'll take a look. I'd like to go through the sources I pasted above and check we've got everything before thinking about FAC. A third party c-e undoing all my fine work would probably also be a good idea, but not yet. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 09:01, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  pre-FAC sanity check 

message: "The offer was soon withdrawn following Ipswich's reluctance to release Beattie to their local rivals" - if he'd retired, how could Ipswich prevent him? --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 10:44, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: He was still on their books. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:08, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Norwich training 

message: 1) No apostrophe?
2) "soon after" is vague - is that what the source says?
--Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 10:48, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: By all means add an apostrophe, Beattie's book is full of errors of that nature.  Secondly, I have definitive date for his wedding, just the year, and while I do have a definitive date for the footballers' wives thing, it clearly had to happen after she became a wife, and so it was soon after, it being definitely in the same year.  The Rambling Man (talk) 12:21, 23 October 2018 (UTC)

text: OK, ta. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 13:02, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Footballers Wives" 

message: , it's the Beat's funeral today, and with what happened at Portman Road yesterday, a dark day for everyone involved with the club.  After this, is there anything you can think that is preventing us from FAC?  The Rambling Man (talk) 07:17, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not quite finished the c-e and I've not yet reviewed the sources I posted above. But really close. I guess some info about the funeral would be good. I feel like I ought to console you for your loss. Not sure about the managerial thing. Might be a good thing, might be bad. I've heard Lambert is coming - he was outstanding with us, but the word among the fans is that like Walker/Deehan, when the Lambert/Culverhouse partnership broke up, neither of them were quite the same. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 11:05, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

text: No mention in the article of the book, it's just in the bibliog. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 12:56, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Both books named now. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:04, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Funeral today 

message: Lots of material lifted from Kevin's autobigraphy. Just wondering what permission you have to use this?
:Not at all, in fact his autobiography is only mentioned, by title, in passing.  Thanks for your concern though!  The Rambling Man (talk) 15:19, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyright 

message: * Lead:
** "PFA Young Player of the Year" - expand "PFA" for the non-football-initiates
***Done. The Rambling Man (talk) 10:52, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Hope this helps. Ealdgyth - Talk 00:29, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: These look really helpful. I'll get stuck into them when I can. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 10:21, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I've addressed a bunch of them. Robby.is.on (talk) 10:36, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

text: I have no way to judge whether its comprehensive or if true to the sources. And I'm certainly not a good judge of prose polishing.. its likely close but don't make bets on me being correct either. Ealdgyth - Talk 01:20, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks , I suggest  we just do it, per you dab link on my page...!  The Rambling Man (talk) 07:38, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, that's not polished prose. I have no idea what that means!?!?? --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 09:26, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some points... 

message: Hi, I noticed you removed the stats for his spells with Boro and Colchester citing conflicting sources. I was just wondering what the sources were as all of the ones I would typically use, and are believed reliable, would have supported the four league matches for each. Kosack (talk) 08:37, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The infobox stats are league games only. Beattie played 4 league matches for Middlesbrough and Beattie played 5 matches for Middlesbrough are both correct, because he played in the FA Cup as well for them. I'm not so sure about 6 games for Colchester. In Rothmans Football Yearbook 1983-84 there are seven: 4 League, 1 League Cup (6 October vs. Southampton) and 2 1982-83 Football League Trophy 17 August Watford, 21 August Orient. Cattivi (talk) 08:38, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah I know they're league only, the sources I would normally use all support the four matches that were removed citing conflicting sources. So I was just offering to help source them. Kosack (talk) 09:14, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Boro/Colchester stats 

message: Came across this article from the Harwich chairman, perhaps it could be of some use? APM (talk) 18:10, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Time at Harwich 

message: The infobox says that he made 228 appearances and scored 24 goals at Ipswich, and 234 appearances and 24 goals in his entire career. That's just nine appearances for eight different clubs after Ipswich! In the article it says he made six appearances for Colchester, five for Middlesbrough, and five for Nybergsund IL-Trysil, and scored over 60 goals for Kongsberg IF (presumably not in a single game). The total figure in the infobox needs to be either updated or removed. 2001:BB6:4708:9258:1195:1A39:A412:1368 (talk) 08:45, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Well you removed the figures, so nothing more to discuss I think. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:24, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Figures in infobox 

message: I'm not sure that the following sentence is strictly correct: "Beattie accepted a lit cigarette from a fan and smoked it whilst collecting his FA Cup winner's medal in 1978". Having just watched footage on YouTube he certainly wasn't smoking a cigarette whilst actually collecting his medal though it's possible that he had one in his hand whilst walking up and may have dropped it before receiving his medal. Nevertheless, I think the sentence is at the very least a bit misleading.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Solatha (talk • contribs) 15:39, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cigarette Smoking Query