Talk:Lebanese people

message: Shakira's father William Mebarak Chadid is Lebanese-Maronite Catholic. Maronites are Lebanese Christians and have nothing in common with Macedonians. Can someone remove this provocative misleading information. (I am a new user and cannot make changes) Thanks in advance.
JhgasndsmofvedMaronite (talk) 03:32, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Shakira's father William Mebarak Chadid is Lebanese-Maronite Catholic

message: This article dont have evidences of Argentina, also the 1.5 millon is very high  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.113.164.174 (talk) 23:27, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Argentina Dead links

message: Why isn't Elissa mentioned in this article? Or not in any of the pictures? She is one of the most influential people of Lebanese descent and has had such an extraordinary impact on the Middle East, some might refer her to the equivalent of a modern day Fairuz.  Perhaps this article needs to be revised more thoroughly and carefully on NOTABLE Lebanese people. Myriam Fares is NOT a notable Lebanese person, she might be considered a casual performer or artist and not an internationally successful artist. (Thamerr) (talk) 00:55, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Elissa

message: I believe there are some mistakes in the religion section mainly in the percentage distribution. It is not true that that 30% are muslim shias. Please check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Lebanon these numbers seem to be more accurate with a reference. Also check http://www.arab.de/arabinfo/lebanon.htm  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.81.159.11 (talk) 13:52, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, since there are no real reliable numbers to base it on. (talk) 22:10, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

text: removed it all because it is just comparison no concrete data. --Karim666 (talk) 10:20, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Religion 

message: Lebanses People are decendants of Phoencians whom were Caananites from north Canaan. They colonized much of the Mediterranean. They were semitic. They were first conquered by Assyrians and assimilated into Assyrian culture. This was later repeated by Romans, Greeks, and Arabs.
:This table is very misleading. How can there be 7 million lebanese in Brazil, when the latest brazilian census shows that only 1.5 million people are arabs and other ethnic minoroties. maybe there is a large lebanese community in brazil, but they consider themselves brazilian not lebanese because of the long time they have been there for. Also none of these figures in the table have sources. lebanese Australians are 167,000 according to the 2001 census, and in america they are 440,000. In canada they are 140,000. In lebanon, lebanese are not 3.8 million. There are 200,000 palestians, and a large number of syrian workers still live in Lebanon.
You should sign your post. 
"How can there be 7 million lebanese in Brazil, when the latest brazilian census shows that only 1.5 million people are arabs and other ethnic minoroties." 
Why can't there be? It depends on the country but census is not really accurate. A lot, maybe the majority of Lebanese people overseas do identify as Arab but not ALL Lebanese people identify as Arab. Brazil is a melting plot of different ethncites and races.
" maybe there is a large lebanese community in brazil, but they consider themselves brazilian not lebanese because of the long time they have been there for."
No they consider themselves Brazilians because that is there nationality. It doesn't matter if the person was born in Lebanon and emigrated to Brazil, if he gets naturalized in Brazil his new nationality is Brazilian and will be called as such if he wishes.Secret killer (talk) 22:10, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  History 

message: I think people discussing here should have a look at the doings of some anti-Arab Christian activists at the Assyrian-related articles. They even designed a totally inaccurate and propagandist Syriacs box, mentioning Maronites and Melkites as "Syriacs", thus non-Arabs, which I proposed for deletion here. Pylambert 23:07, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  non-Arab Middle East Christians 

message: http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0410/feature2/online_extra.html "Today's Lebanese, the Phoenicians, and the Canaanites before them are all the same people." 
http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0410/feature2/index.html 
- Habib
Not really . Phoenicianism was used for propaganda against Arabism. 
and both are wrong they are both the brainchild of fascist and ultra-nationalist movements.
Lebanese are a mix o several ethnic groups. 
Genetic heritage should not be confused with the cultural heritage .
Lebanese cultural heritage spans many ethnic groups, From Greeks , Syriacs , Arabs, Armenians and Druze...--Jadraad (talk) 12:13, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Phoenicians 

message: Since there are articles on Palestinians, Egyptians, Berbers and Emiratis, I went ahead and re-made this article.Saimdusan Talk|Contribs 02:11, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Re-created this article

message: Please do not add pictures of moussa al-sadr and michel aoun. Nobody outside of Lebanon (or of course, Iran) has heard of these two people. Rafic Hariri was a multi billionaire so I did not remove his photo, though I don't mind if someone else replaces him with a more notable and recognized face.
:Please discuss before removing pictures, the images will be reverted.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.133.11.134 (talk) 18:46, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  this articles about lebanese people not lebanese politics 

message: Musa al Sadr is Lebanese. Stop removing his picture and large amounts of text in the process. Also, if Maronites are 35% of the population, what does it leave Greek Orthodox, Melkites, Armenians, etc.? The Greek Orthodox alone make 8-10% of the population. Monkaa (talk) 08:27, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Is Musa al-Sadr Lebanese by citizenship, birth, or ancestry? If it's by ancestry (if his father was Lebanese), he's fine to include. The paragraph on Pheonicianism has absolutely no place. It's extreme POV pushing to make the second paragraph on the "Lebanese people" be about some extremist view held by a minority of Lebanese. Also, the topic is discussed later in the article. Maronites probably aren't 35% of the population, though Christians are estimated to be 40% of the population. It's probably better to just lump them all together if groups other than the Maronites make up more than 5% of the population, or break them down as well. ← George [talk] 08:41, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Musa al-Sadr's father was Lebanese, as is his whole family. He is Lebanese by ancestry and by citizenship. As for the paragraph on Phoenicianism, I assume you're talking about Phoenicianists when you mention a "minority of Lebanese", but it is important to clarify that the notion that the Lebanese are a distinct people and ethnicity is discredited by most Lebanese because most of the article, including the introduction and the name of the article itself, implies that the Lebanese are a people, similar to the French or the Armenians for example. And yes, Christians are about 40% of the population, so putting the Maronites at 35% would leave the others at 5%. The Greek Orthodox are 8-10% of the population, the Melkites 5-6% and the rest, including the Armenians, are almost 4% of the population. That would put the Maronites at 20% or 25$% maximum. Better to just mention Christians. Monkaa (talk) 10:52, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The images are still problematic, and not very representative of the population of modern day Lebanon. We should have a discussion of who exactly should be in the infobox, and the number of people included. If we have a representative from the largest sects, then one expatriate will be enough. Then we can have one picture, like on the Arab article, so there won't be too much edit warring over what people to include. FunkMonk (talk) 13:05, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pictures 

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thread_title: Image copyright problem with Image:MusaalSadr.JPG

message: I have noticed that Carlos Ghosn is not mentioned in this article. due to his accomplishments I think should be mentioned in this article. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Ghosn  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.154.115.112 (talk) 05:50, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Carlos Ghosn 

message: Don't you think it is more appropriate to have Fairuz's picture up there instead of Nada Al Hage? Yazan (talk) 06:22, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: We need an overhaul of the infobox image an a detailed discussion, as was done on the Arab article. Current bunch seems totally random. FunkMonk (talk) 17:26, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

text: Seconded!--Alousybum (talk) 07:07, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Fairuz

message: This article is highly biased: rough demographic estimates (e.g. 7 millions Brazilians of Lebanese descent??) and historical assumptions (the Phoenician myth) are presented as "facts". 
Amateurish "genetic" surveys conducted by sub-par researchers are presented as "validations" of "oral traditions" and folk history!
Not a word about the profound Greek, Roman and South Arabian (Qahtani) influences on Lebanese culture, or the strong historical bonds linking Eastern Lebanon (the Beqaa Valley) to Southwestern Syria or South Lebanon (Jabal Aamel) to Galilee.
This article is a fraud.
And a very biased one.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Moorehaus (talk • contribs) 19:57, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, Lebanese are not an ethnic group by any stretch of the imagination, so a lot of this article really needs to be removed. It really needs to focus on modern Lebanese, not myth. There was no Lebanese "nation" prior to the 20th century. What there was would be synonymous with Maronite. FunkMonk (talk) 17:27, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Fake history & Folk Anthropology

message: Christian Lebanese identify themself as "Syriac-Maronite"
They are most members of the Syriac Orthodox Church or members of the Syriac Maroite Church, there language i originally "Syriac-Aramaic" this is a dialekt of Aramaic.
Maronites call themself as maronites because, a syriac monk named "maron" has founted the Syriac Church of Libanon.
They dont identify themself a Phoenician, or most do not. The most cal themself Syriac-Maronites or just Syriac People.
And "syriacs" are the real name of lebanse chritians. look here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maronite_Church  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.195.63.229 (talk) 20:23, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Christian Lebanese identify themself as "Syriac-Maronite" 

message: It will be practically impossible to have an assemblage of "notable persons" that isn't religiously biased in some way or another (unless we make it all female, that could work out, religion wise, too many of the Lebanese males we have images of are known for being political/religious leaders), so I'm thinking the infobox shouldn't have any images, or maybe something more generic, like a random assemblage of people, maybe a historical one, or a map, or maybe nothing at all. Otherwise it will forever be a subject of edit wars. FunkMonk (talk) 02:24, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: What does the religion of the "notable persons" matter? It seems much more biased to try to elevate less notable people over their more notable counterparts, simply because of their religion. ← George talk 09:51, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: We could easily get an infobox with only Christians, if not only Maronites. Don't you think that would be a problem? FunkMonk (talk) 10:11, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It depends. We can't have the pictures exactly match every possible way of breaking down the population: half male, half female; a third Christian, a third Sunni, a third Shite; someone who is Druze, someone Armenian; someone pro-Saudi, someone pro-Syrian; an Aounist, a Hezbollah supporter, a supporter of the FPM, a Phalangist, etc. - it just gets silly. I think what makes the most sense is to just show the most well known Lebanese figures - be they Maronite, Druze, Sunni, Shi'a - whatever. Diversity should be a goal for visual characteristic (i.e., black versus white, male versus female). You can't tell someone's religion or political ideology just by looking at a picture of them, so there's no need to try and enforce diverse religious or political affiliations in pictures. ← George talk 11:11, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It gets silly, but Lebanon is a silly country, so one has to be cautious and very politically correct with these things, that's my experience at least. FunkMonk (talk) 20:12, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox picture 

message: Hello, fellow editors. Why does this article fail to mention the Lebanese Armenians as part of the Lebanese people? There are at least 100,000 Armenians in Lebanon and many Lebanese Armenians in other countries, yet this article does not mention that there are Lebanese who speak Armenian, who follow Armenian Christianity (whether Apostolic, Catholic or Protestant), etc. --Davo88 (talk) 03:16, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree they should be mentioned. Lebanese is a nationality, not ethnicity FunkMonk (talk) 03:18, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Armenians have their own seats in the parliament, and are recognised as some of the 18 Lebanese sects, so they're quite Lebanese. Armenians in Lebanon are only ethnic Armenians, not by citizenship. FunkMonk (talk) 19:31, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

text: Lebanon never formed a nation until the 20th century, and by that time there was a substantial Armenian population in that country. The Armenians of Lebanon thus participated in the founding of Lebanon and even though their original homeland is in Western Armenia, they are as Lebanese as anybody else in that country. Besides, there is no such thing as an ethnic Lebanese.--Davo88 (talk) 05:31, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Lebanese are not an ethnic group, but a nationality, so again, Armenians should certainly be included. Heck, one Lebanese preident, Emile Lahoud, was half Armenian, so they're pretty integrated. FunkMonk (talk) 16:18, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

text: They are a sub-group of Lebanese people, therefore they warrant their own article. Just like there's an article about Shia Muslims in Lebanon and similar. FunkMonk (talk) 07:26, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lebanese Armenians 

message: In the spoken language section it says Spoken Traditional is phenocian, i have never heard of anyone speaking that language, and i am lebanese,  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.87.42.232 (talk) 03:32, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Language

message: That racial stuff in the Appearence section refers to "The Races of Europe" by Carleton S. Coon from 1939 (!), but the text is written in present tense. Obviously it cannot be of any relevance to the present conditions. I propose to delete it, because I cannot see significant relevance of this information at all. (Maybe I just have a problem with race studies, generally...) 
Kind regards. -- RJFF (talk) 16:16, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Most conspicuously, the first sentence states "The Lebanese are Mediterraneans and Alpines." Without any critical questioning or at historical classification or at least explanation! (Do I have to know what "Alpines" are? I think I skipped Racial studies in school...) Maybe according to historical anthropology they were "Mediterraneans" and "Alpines". But fortunately that has been outdated for a long, long time. I will delete this sentence at once, as it is obviously unacceptable. I do not see how we could discuss this. About the rest of the section, I am looking forward to your suggestions. -- RJFF (talk) 16:27, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

text: Obviously, there are no objections to my proposal. So I will, hopefully with your accordance, delete the 'Appearance' section, which only references to Carlton Coon's racial studies work. -- RJFF (talk) 12:48, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Appearance 

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thread_title: File:Lebanese people.JPG Nominated for Deletion

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thread_title: File:Lebanese Diaspora.PNG Nominated for Deletion

message: There are 250,000 Lebanese people living in France, which is just as many as Canada. How come this is not listed under the section "Regions with significant populations"?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.161.19.179 (talk) 04:00, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lebanese people in France 

message: Billy1948 (talk) 12:35, 12 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: as you have not requested a change.If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to any article. - Arjayay (talk) 12:44, 12 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 12 September 2014 

message: sources left out and poor grammar
Musa1921 (talk) 11:36, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Cannolis (talk) 11:50, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 28 May 2015 

message: Musa1921 (talk) 12:59, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 30 May 2015 

message: According to this recent stat published by Kuwait government, the Lebanese in Kuwait are 41,775 as of May 2013 and not 10,000 as listed. Please have this updated. Link http://www.alraimedia.com/Articles.aspx?id=412118  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.72.109.90 (talk) 10:57, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Lebanese people in Kuwait]] 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I would like to add a "citation needed" tag after Shias (27%), Sunnis (27%), Maronites (21%), Greek Orthodox (8%), Melkites (5%), Druze (5%), and Protestants (1%).
There has been no official census on religions in many years so I'm interested to see where that data comes from. Not a Suit (talk) 15:17, 27 November 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Citation 39 in the "Religion" section supports the content. I cited it in the lead to avoid further uncertainty. DRAGON BOOSTER  ★ 09:35, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 27 November 2016 

message: This article actually a nonsense, phoenicianism present strongly. The cultural and linguistic heritage of the Lebanese people is a blend of both indigenous Caananite/Phoenician elements and the foreign cultures that have come to rule the land and its people over the course of thousands of years. (Actually there is no relationship of the Lebanese people with the Canaanites and Phoenicians. Lebanese people linguistic and cultural are Arab such as Palestinians Syrians and Jordanians).  In a 2013 interview the lead investigator, Pierre Zalloua... Who supports him and what is the Phoenician gene? if he meant that haplogroup J2 so the peoples of the world Phoenicians also. Briefly genetics section a few and poor sources & most by Pierre Zalloua.--Marlo Jonesa (talk) 03:57, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: The link is certainly exaggerated in some circles, but that doesn't mean it isn't there. Changing your language doesn't change your genes, and Middle Eastern people who speak Arabic are not uniform genetically at all. But claiming Lebanese are Phoenicians is nonsense, of course. Just like modern Scandinavians aren't somehow Vikings. FunkMonk (talk) 15:32, 9 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: All peoples mixed genes, but to describe very modern people as ancient peoples such as the Phoenician this nonsense.--Marlo Jonesa (talk) 21:50, 9 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, that's pretty much what I said, no? Many Lebanese don't identify as ethnic Arabs, and that is a valid point here too. FunkMonk (talk) 22:23, 9 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, but we don't have to share their opinion on Wikipedia, mainly Christians particularly Maronites, identify themselves as Phoenician rather than Arab, that all the peoples of the Middle East are modern peoples.--Marlo Jonesa (talk) 22:39, 9 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: If those opinions are dealt with in reliable sources, then yes, we have to present them. Maronites don't necessarily all identify as Phoenicians, they just don't identify as Arabs (though some might). FunkMonk (talk) 17:34, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Identity in Lebanon is very complicated, especially when it comes to the Maronites, there Maronites who reject Arab identity and there are those who accepted, so if we said that most of the Maronites reject Arab identity It will be exaggerated, but according to The Taif Agreement Lebanon has been identified and the result is Lebanon is Arab in its identity and in its affiliation. I do not think that Maronites have a big problem with the Arab identity, because we find most of the heads of Lebanon are Maronites, as well as the current president of Lebanon Michel Aoun is a Maronite and in his speech he said I would like to thank the Arab brothers for... But I'll try to work on the article in order to be neutral and acceptable to all 1.--Marlo Jonesa (talk) 23:23, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Phoenician 

message: #The CIA mentioned references ethnic groups in Lebanon
**Lebanon
***People and Society
****Ethnic groups: Arab 95%, Armenian 4%, other 1%.
#The Wikipedia mentioned references Population numbers in Lebanon
*Lebanon (People living in Lebanon) and not in the diaspora: (Jewish diaspora) sentence which makes no sense
#Judaism isn't an ethnicity but an ethnic religion and conversion requires assimilation into the Jewish people. The Lebanese Jews are traditionally a Sephardi (particularly Mizrahi) community living mostly in and around Beirut but also in Sidon and Baalbek. Less than 100 Jews live in Lebanon today. See (History of the Jews in Lebanon).
#South European (not ethnicity but a geographical area), Greeks, Italians, I know Lebanon well, but I did not know that there is this big figure.
#North African is also not an ethnicity but a geographical area. Ethnic groups in North Africa: Baggara (Arab), Berbers, Copts, Egyptians (Arab),  Fur, Haratin, Maghrebis (Arab), Moors (Arab-Berber), Nubians, Sudanese (Arab), Tuareg ,Toubou and Zaghawa.
*I've removed the infobox  to prevent editorial wars. It happened several times  and recently  So I hope that the current version will remain to prevent future editorial wars.--Canbel (talk) 16:20, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks for starting the RfC: it's a progressive move. However; as per WP:RFC, , which has not really happened yet. As such, I've temporarilly removed it, until we can get a discussion going, and establish the precise question we want resolved, and why. Cheers!  — O Fortuna semper crescis, aut decrescis 10:34, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed infobox 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: What does this mean? I can bring dozens of sources to prove that the Lebanese are Phoenicians, Canaanites or even Pharaonites. Previously there was a discussion about the Lebanese are Phoenicians there were many sources, but the consensus was to be removed. This issue is particularly sensitive to the Lebanese identity. There was a civil war and a struggle for identity, so it is preferable for the Lebanese to remain Lebanese.--Sarah Canbel (talk) 15:39, 29 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: By the way that you are talking about  Canaanite-related population, all the Arabic peoples have a relationship with the Canaanites because the Arabs are also Semites, Jews, Assyrians, etc.--Sarah Canbel (talk) 15:43, 29 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Controversy again! 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081116084516/http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2001/525/in3.htm to http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2001/525/in3.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081216003559/http://www.globalpolitician.com/25247-lebanon to http://www.globalpolitician.com/25247-lebanon
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150512161002/http://maroniteinstitute.org/MARI/JMS/july00/The_Struggle.htm to http://maroniteinstitute.org/MARI/JMS/july00/The_Struggle.htm
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Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 12:21, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: If you check the page "Lebanese People" you will see how it describe it as in religions groups, not as cultural behaviour!
Do we (Lebanese people) want to be described like that? How we can change the perspective of our image!
Lebanese people are: Well educated, well travelled, fun to be around with, they love food and they make the most delicious food in the world, and they always succeed outside Lebanon. 
Don't you agree?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lebaneseincanada (talk • contribs) 18:21, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: We follow the reliable sources. Do you have suggestions for things to add perhaps? Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 18:59, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Weird information about Lebanese People 

message: Under the listing of Lebaneese religious groups, Druze appears to be under Islam. (This is not correct-however, I do not know enough to be certain.) Druze should be in its own category. 2600:8803:5A00:7690:299E:7316:ED42:AA5A (talk) 19:41, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: the page explains that Druze are a quasi-Muslim group considered Muslims by the Lebanese government. Danski454 (talk) 09:43, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 21 July 2018 

message: Change: 
Lebanese, regardless of the region or religion sect, are not Arab. Recent studies show that the majority of the Lebanese person's genetic makeup today is shared with that the Phoenician and Canaanites people, the ancestors of the Lebanese people.
To:
A Lebanese person's genetic makeup today is much closer with the Arabs of the Levant, therefore making them Arab. Many who claim Lebanese are not Arab are forgetting the last 1000 years of history during the time of the Islamic caliphates where there was a mix of people living in Lebanon. It is disingenuous to claim that Lebanese people are not Arabs and have ties to a more ancient people (i.e. Phoenician and Canaanites), because that would be true of all humans on this earth. Your race is determined by your genetic makeup and the similarities you have to people in the last few hundred years. The Phoenician and Canaanites do not exist in this modern day so you cannot be anything other than Arab. Lebanese is not a race and was merely a term coined in the early 20th century. Typhi1 (talk) 02:09, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Goldsztajn (talk) 07:24, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 10 October 2020 

message: 1st) The study doesnt say "Major genetic changes", it just says "a genetic change occurred" Rewording or adding words that the study does not say is OR and disruptive editing
2nd) Summaries of the studies and the sources are enough, there is no need to add speculative parts of studies like "the source might possibly be sea peoples". This is speculative so adding it and emphasizing it with italics as to make it seem like a conclusive fact is disruptive editing 
3rd) This study makes a generalization when it talks about the "evidence" for the "Hellenistic mix" on the "whole Lebanese population". The South Asian mix is actually present only in Lebanese Muslims. I will elaborate on this and expand further based on the different genetic studies that have been done to which I provide the links:
Y haplogroup LM22 also called L1 which is a very rare haplogroup almost inexistent in the world and is found in Lebanon. 6.25% of Christian Lebanese present its subclade L-M22/L-M317 also called L1b which is a very very rare haplogroup subclade, which is NOT present in India nor anywhere in Southeast Asia as opposed to 1.25% of Lebanese Muslims that present it. So 80% of the rare LM22/L-M317 in Lebanon is concentrated in the Lebanese Christians , possibly mainly in the Maronites. This L1b is also present in 4.5% of Northeast Italians (Venice area as mentioned here http://www.mexitalians.com/ancestors.html). L1b is present also in 20% of Mountain Jews of the Caucasus who claim descent from the Ten Lost Tribes and 5% on average in many of the indigenous group of the Caucasus. When it comes to this haplogroup subclade it can be said for certain that it came from the Caucasus/Anatolia and settled in Canaan thousands of years ago not during the Greek conquest of the Levant/Hellenization period. Its location/spread its presented in green in this map https://paulbrooker.posthaven.com/y-haplogroup-l-not-the-r1b-sub-clade-or-mtdna-resource-page
Now 3.15% of Lebanese Muslims as opposed to 0.20% of Christian Lebanese carry its different subclade L-M22/L-M27 or L1a which is found in around 15% of Indians and in extensive amounts in the Arabian Peninsula. Its location/spread its presented in pink in this map https://paulbrooker.posthaven.com/y-haplogroup-l-not-the-r1b-sub-clade-or-mtdna-resource-page
So if you take a haplogroup like LM22 and dont divide it into its respective subclades when you put up the numbers people can interpret this as if 6% of Lebanese Christians and 3% of Lebanese Muslims carry LM22 when in reality the LM22 haplogroups they carry are different due to their subclades and are carried in different places by different groups of people. Mr. Zoulloa didnt test these specific subclades in his earlier studies such as this one https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2427286/. However he did test in his latest ones such as https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3062011/ and made a point about it although he goes on and says that the two haplogroups are closely related when they are really not and goes on and say to the public there are no major genetic differences between the religious groups when the frequencies of this ancient and rare haplogroup does show it.
The same can be done with all the other major haplogroups of J2 and G and this is to expand on what the Haber et al 2011 study means when it says quote "Major differences between Lebanese groups were found among the less frequent haplogroups":
Haplogroup J2 is present in 26% of Lebanese (34% of the Maronites carry it, 25% of the Greek Orthodox and 25% of the Muslims). However out the 26% total there is about 6% that is not just J2 or J-M172 but is made up of the specific subclade J-M67 (previously called J2f) and its further subclade J-M92 as can be seen here https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929707643663. 80% of the Lebanese that have these haplogroups subclades are Christians as can be seen in one of the first studies done by Mr. Zoulloa here https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2427286/. So the Christians present a much much higher percentage, possibly 80% or more, of the subclades J2/JM67 (previously called J2f) and its further subclade J2/M92 than Lebanese Muslims. It is found in super high proportions in the Caucasus, 10% of Cretans, 10% of North Central Italians and 5% of Jews. You can see here https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0002929707643663-gr2.jpg that the location and pattern of distribution of J2/J-M67 and J2/J-M92 is very different that the location and pattern of distribution of the plain J2 or J-M172.  Mr. Zoulloa rarely mentions this anymore for unknown reasons.
Haplogroup G (mainly G-L30) is present in 6-8% of Lebanese, the highest percentage in the region. 30% of the Lebanese Melkite Catholics have it as opposed to 6% Lebanese Muslims, 6% orthodox and 7% Maronites as can be seen in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_G_(Y-DNA)_by_country#Lebanon, so the Lebanese Melkites possibly contain the highest concentration of G in the world outside the Caucasus . Haplogroup G is present in 15% of Cypriots, 10% of Cretans, 10-15% of Jews, and in extensive amounts in the Caucasus. Haplogroup G is found at much lower frequencies in the Arabian peninsula and outside the mentioned groups except some places in Iberia and Italy where it can go to 8-10%. I havent read Mr. Zoulloa make this observation in his studies.
If a Christian Lebanese tests at 23andme he will see that almost all the Y haplogroups of its Christian Lebanese matches (ESPECIALLY IN THE DIASPORA, which none of the studies have focused and where the majority of the Lebanese Christian descendants ARE) will be L-M22/L-M317, J-M67 and J-M92 (specific subclades of J2 or J-M172) and G-L30. All of these are very rare and ancient Canaanite/Phoenician haplogroups that are by far mainly present in the Christian Lebanese not the Lebanese Muslims and also found mainly in the indigenous groups of the Caucasus, in Jews (specially Mountain Jews of the Caucasus who claim descent from the Ten Lost Tribes) and in Northern Italy (mainly Venice and Genoa, which perhaps partly supports a theory out there that claims the Phoenicians or Christian Phoenicians migrated into and had some part in founding Venice at some point, which is can be supported by other things but thats another story).
These specific haplogroups/subclades and their statistics can be seen in various sources/studies, contradicting the "Zoulloa unifying message" that is out there claiming that the Lebanese Christians and Lebanese Muslims share the same amount of Phoenician DNA which is incorrect if we look at the SUBCLADES not just the MAJOR haplogroups and we look a the Haber 2013 and Haber 2019 AUTOSOMAL studies.Chris O' Hare (talk) 01:26, 27 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Haber et al 2020 study and more