Talk:To Kill a Mockingbird/Archive 1

message: I believe Harper Lee originally wrote and intended to publish To Kill a Mockingbird as two separate volumes. Her agent or publisher persuaded her to combine the volumes into one. Atticus
:I think I read somewhere that the book was originally a collection of short stories. AucamanTalk 03:05, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Two volumes

message: * an essay. M123 06:28, 25 Aug 2003 (UTC)
thread_title:  VfD 

message: One of the most prominent themes in To Kill a Mockingbird is prejudice. There is a great deal of prejudice towards Tom. There are also other prejudices against other characters but it is most prominent against Tom due to the hatred of Negroes.
The dictionary (http://dictionary.com) defines prejudice as "Irrational suspicion or hatred of a particular group, race, or religion". It can be said that in To Kill a Mockingbird that prejudice is based upon the hatred of a low and subordinate group. White people felt that Negroes were the worst things that could happen to earth. Prejudice is the manifestation of the negative thoughts of a group or race. A specific example of this is on page 73 when Jem and Scout are making a snowman. Scout says to Jem, “Whoever heard of a nigger snowman,” If this manifestation gets to out of control then it could result in a holocaust. This manifestation could be the cause of The Holocaust. Some people but not everyone believed that they needed to segregate Negroes until they would simply disappear. White people thought that if they could eradicate Negroes they could create a perfect world. This could be reflected on the KKK. The KKK believes that for the earth to be purified they need to.
The dictionary (http://dictionary.com) also defines racism as the belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. Based on this I can say that white people thought that Negroes were animals. Racism can be thought of as something similar to prejudice but racism is the hatred of a particular race. Similar to racism is xenophobia. Xenophobia is the fear of anyone who is not from the same country as you are. 
To Kill a Mockingbird is a story full of racial prejudices. Some of these prejudices could be when Tom was on trial they did not take his word and all the other opposing evidence; the jury simply believed Mayella. They did not believe Tom, not because Mayella had all the opposing evidence that could have convicted Tom, but because it was it went against the mores of Southern Americans to believe a black man over a white woman or anyone who was white during that last century and prior. 
To Kill a Mockingbird is a story with prejudices towards Tom Robinson. Another example of these prejudices is that when Tom is at the jailhouse the ‘Mob’ demands that Atticus let Tom out so that the ‘Mob’ could do as they would to him. In a perfect society as the white people wanted, Tom, along with every single other Negro, would have been lynched. Personally, I think that those white people who were being prejudiced towards Negroes were a reflection of themselves. They simply could not understand that all races are equal. That there is no perfect race, they didn’t understand that nothing is perfect despite the fact that the white people of the 20th century (and previous) thought that white people are the perfect race. White people believed that white supremacy is the only way to get a race to be perfect.
To Kill a Mockingbird is based upon the fact that white people did not like Negroes. White people thought Negroes to be of an extremely lower class. Negroes in a way also had there own class system. However, the Negro class as a whole was as far down on the white person’s class system as anyone could possibly be. 
The social and historical contexts of To Kill a Mockingbird is during the 1930s in the United States of America. Being set in the 1930s you could expect to have seen some prejudice. White Americans of the 1930s did not like anyone who was not white. This could be a reflection on the white peoples inhibitions and fears of Negroes. White people must have felt that Negroes should not have been involved in anything that white people were involved in.
To Kill a Mockingbird’s prejudice is based upon the basis of white supremacy. White supremacy in To Kill a Mockingbird is very prominent. Everyone thought that Negroes were trash and that the best that they could have done is to have gone and lived in a rubbish tip. Mr. Ewell was the one exception to the white supremacy theory. Apart from being white he had, at the time, been considered a lower class white man, but even this was not as low as a Negro had been considered. He lived at the tip, had many children, was a single parent and lastly he could afford nothing.
Prejudice against age is probably the most uncommon form of prejudice but it is still there. People of the 1930s considered the perfect age to be twenty-one – twenty-nine. Anyone who was older or younger than this would have been considered to be non pure. If you were considered non pure, in the view of people of the 1930s, you were a Negro, but we all know that this is wrong. Age prejudice is not as common as gender prejudice but it is still common.
The second most common form of prejudice would have to be a person’s gender. Men were always considered superior to women. Moreover, to some extent they still are. Men thought that women could not do anything except for domestic duties, such as cooking, cleaning and looking after children. Today’s society still generally views women as weak feeble creatures because there are still numerous jobs that women can't do. For example, in the army there are numerous jobs that they will not let women do. In To Kill a Mockingbird, Scout is not thought of as a lady. Alexandra tries to make her into a lady. This can be seen on page 142 when Alexandra was talking to Atticus about the way that Scout talks. Jem says, “Aunty better watch how she (Scout) talks, scratch most folks in Maycomb and their kin to us.” Gender prejudice will probably be around for a long time.
White people always saw someone with a disability to be of lesser humanity or importance. Anyone who had a disability would be considered non-human, almost like they were a mutant. Just because of something, that was probably not their fault. In today’s modern western society prejudice against disabled people is still present. You can see this when you walk past an ACTIV shop and people are teasing the workers. ACTIV is a place where disabled people can go to work, when employers will not employ them. 
Based on this essay and the research I have done, I can say what is considered the lowest class possible. As before on the basis of my essay and my research I can say that if you were an elderly Negro woman who had a very poor background, with a disability of some sort or another, you would be considered the lowest form or life, but no one should be thinking this.
Despite the fact that prejudice means that you do not like another group or race, there is in fact some sort of relationship there. If there were no relationship whatsoever then the two groups would not know that the other one even existed. In To Kill a Mockingbird Jem and Scout, begin not liking the Radley’s because Jem and Scout think that there is a freak living inside. During the novel Jem and Scout, begin to like Boo as they begin taking his gifts out of the tree.
Until the Civil War, Negroes had almost no rights. They could be treated however anyone wanted to treat them. When the civil war ended, segregation laws were implemented. This meant that Negroes had to be treated with respect and they had to be treated as if they were white, but this in itself is a prejudiced remark. There was no more having to get up off a seat on the bus to let a white person sit down (Rosa Parks). Negroes were beginning to get the rights they deserve. It was still a long and arduous road but it was a step in the right direction. 
The prejudices in To Kill a Mockingbird and prejudice in any form, be it in a book, or even in real life, can be described as totally inhumane and pusillanimous. People have changed since the time that prejudice of Negroes was a common practice. We have discovered that everyone is equal. Just because your skin is black, olive, or purple, everyone is equal. The content of To Kill a Mockingbird can be described as one huge prejudice. There was prejudice against Tom and there was even some prejudice against the three main characters, Atticus, Jem and Scout. It shows that no matter who you are there will always be some prejudice against one or more people, or even you!
::While the above is not encyclopedic and doesn't belong neither as a part of the To Kill a Mockingbird article nor as an article of its own, I hope that someone can bring in published sources talking about this theme.  The overwhelming theme of the novel is about the destructive nature of prejudice – not solely racial prejudice, everyone after all is prejudiced against the "spooky" Boo Radley, but especially racial predjudice.  After all, the main plot of the novel is centered around the charge made by Tom Ewell about the purported "rape" of his daughter.  The Ewells are no-account "white trash" and everyone in Maycomb knows this.  The only thing that the Ewells have going for them in 1930s Southern society is the fact that they are not black.  Ewell must help foster the racial predjudice of his time and place or the only thing maintaining his separation and seeming "superiorty" to blacks will be destroyed and he will then find himself on the local society's lowest, rather than second-lowest, rung. Therefore his daughter must not have been attacted to a black man, even though in reality she was, and any contact that he had with her had to have been forced, even though it really was not.  Note that the widest divide in the rural Southern society of the time was the racial one – the jurors chose to take the meaningless word of a lying, lowlife scoundrel over that of a reputable working man solely because the accuser was white and the accused black.  The jurors were not really evil, just functioning under the evil conventions of their society and unwilling to stand against them because of the very real potential consequences, which ranged from ostracism to lynching, which they would face had they chosen to have done so.  Sentiements like this belong in the article, once they can be found in verifiable sources rather than just from me or another Wikipedian. Rlquall 20:42, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prejudices in mockingbird 

message: Scout isn't included in the major character analysis, she is the protagonist and many of the themes in the book Scout is included in; Prejudice, Coming of Age, Courage etc. Personally i think she should be included? Anyone against the idea? Blaaarg
*I was wondering about this as well. Why isn't her character included in the main characters analysis? --ScottyBoy900Q∞ 04:48, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scout, not a major character? 

message: I believe that articles on the movie and the book belong in two different article, or at least with the movie as a subsection of the novel atricle. This article is kind of a confused mess right now.
Also, doesn't the remark about Truman Capote belong either in the trivia section or deeper into the article? I believe the point it trivial as there is no real proof of it.
:I agree. The movie is no greater than the book. And in my opinion, the book is better (disregrading however cliche that is).
:I totally agree, and I actually just came here to write the same thing. The book is one of the greatest books ever, the movie is considered a classic too. I really don't see why they should have the same article. Morshem 04:53, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree also, but could someone do it, as I don't have the time. When writing it, (since this is how i got to the page in the first place) please be sure to state that Scout Finch received the award of being the 24th Best Character in Fiction Since 1900 as according to this page. Thanks to the person who does this! --Jared  [T]/[+] 23:32, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree also, however I'm reading the book at this moment, so I haven't read this whole article. I don't want to read any spoilers. Erwin85 09:32, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They really do need to be split. --Falcorian (talk) 18:37, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Two Separate Articles?

message: Plot synopsis/summary? We're reading it in my english class within two months or so and I wanted to see what it was about. — Ilyanep (Talk) 02:52, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly what I was thinking about. A novel this famous should have a plot synopsis in its article. Could someone please write one? - Quirk 08:20, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wow.... 

message: The caption of the picture says "The second-edition cover art for the novel."  However, the picture is of an audiobook version.  This should be corrected.  207.10.126.30 16:04, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture 

message: There are plenty of trivia bits that discuss the movie.
:pretty sure I got 'em, thanks =) MBlume 07:04, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Trivia is not about the book 

message: There's a sentence in the Boo Radley section that, literally parsed, sounds like Boo's dad was involved in a petty gang.  I'm not sure how to put the sentence right, but if anyone can take a crack at it, that'd be great.
Boo Radley.  Arthur Radley.  Arthur "Boo" Radley.  I think we need some sort of consensus on where in the article we use these.
There's a note about the article being a Bildungsroman right at the end of the Tom Robinson paragraph - should that go somewhere else?  I'm not sure what to do with that. MBlume 01:00, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup 

message: Dubose has many stereotypes that were common during the time period.
do we mean that Dubose *holds* many of these stereotypes, or do we mean that she represents, that she typifies many of these stereotypes? MBlume 19:14, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dubose and her stereotypes 

message: Dill is more than just Scout and Jem's friend, he's their cousin.  This should be in the article IMO.  Rlquall 02:02, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dill's a cousin 

message: Somehow I think that this could be worked into the article.  I remember how struck I was by Scout's breaking the world up into five types of people, namely:
*1) Rich people
*2) Middle-class people like themselves (although, in reality, the family of a prominent attorney in a small Southern town of the 1930s was likely regarded by the majority of its inhabitants as belonging in the first category)
*3) Poor whites as exemplified by the Cunninghams, who were socially inferior due to their ignorant and backward ways but still somewhat respected as a. they did did important, albeit menial, work and b. they were white
*4) White trash like the Ewells, who did as little work as possible and lived off of handouts (which working poor whites like the Cunninghams always refused on principle) and illegal activity and were the lowest status whites, and
*5) blacks (yes, Scout refers to them as "niggers", but only to show that she is a product of her time and place, as she not only doesn't practice racism, but, due to a combination of her upbringing and her childish innocence, she doesn't even understand it)
Jem shoots Scout's worldview down immediately, at least to his satisfaction, by reminding her that she has left several types of people out, citing Cajuns and Creoles as an example.  Scout rejects his rebuke, reminding him that neither group lives in Maycomb, which was the "world" to which she was referring.  I'm certainly not saying that all of this belongs in the article verbatim nor proposing to put it there, but rather that at least an allusion to it would be nice.
:If my memory serves me correctly, Jem was the one who tried to break people into different groups (at least, I think that was what happened in the book.  The movie might have been different).  Scout offered the opinion that "there's only one kind of folks- folks."  (Of course, I could be wrong.  It's been a while since I read that section of the book.)--Tally Solleni 03:06, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scout's Five Classes of People in the World 

message: These sections are rather pedestrian in their analyses, focusing on symbolism and concrete references to mockingbirds ("[Atticus] represents morality and kindness," "Arthur 'Boo' Radley symbolizes destroyed innocence," "Tom Robinson represents the 'mockingbird,'" etc). This focus on symbolism reduces characters to dry abstractions or archetypes. Many seasoned readers praise TKAM for the way that Harper Lee brought the characters to life. That Harper Lee's own family circumstances were similar to Scout Finch's is also well known. How much of the novel is thinly-veiled autobiography is speculative, but to limit one's understanding of the characters to symbolic stand-ins for abstract ideas suggests that one doesn't even appreciate the basic storyteller's art so masterfully displayed by Harper Lee. --BAW 13:54, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Analysis and Characters sections could use some more development

message: Her views on Atticus' decision to have a "negro" in the house are made clear as she asks Atticus to 'get rid of her'. Atticus responds to her by kicking her out instead.
I don't seem to recall Atticus kicking out Aunt Alexandra. Can somebody give me the appropriate quotes from the book?
Ramnath R. Iyer 09:04, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Aunt Alexandra

message: While Dill says that Dolphus was drinking out of a sack, Scout then says that he is drinking out of a brown paper bag. I think this should be edited. 149.167.214.242 07:10, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Dolphus

message: Shouldn't somebody put in who Dill stays with in the summer? Also, who does he stay with when he runs away to Maycombe?
149.167.214.242 07:40, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Charles Baker 'Dill' Harris

message: The plot overview on Sparknotes is identical to the summary in the article: http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/mocking/summary.html
I would imagine that they took it from Wikipedia, but if not this has been copied from a website without permission, right? Excuse my ignorance over this matter x_x;; I just thought I should point it out, just in case. Tozoku 20:41, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sparknotes plot summary

message: Requesting revision, may not be racist, could have been a fit from the morphine. (read the book, you wil understand) ONX 18:03, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Mrs. Dubose

message: This looks like a good article to me. I got rid of the infobox for novels and rated it an A. Should have been done long ago in my opinion. b_cubed 03:03, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This definitely is not A-class. There are *no* external literature references, something absolutely required for A-class. In fact, this is also the reason nomination for Good Article would fail. I agree that in its current state Start-class would be too low. I've rerated as B-class. Errabee 02:08, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Article Promotion

message: Why isn't he included in the "other characters" part??? Superdude99 15:39, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's odd - he's a more prominent character than Zeebo and plays a fairly big part in the novel.  I'll add him in.  -- THE GREAT GAVINI {T|C|#} 15:02, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Heck tate

message: I think it should be mentioned that this is basically Lee's only novel, which is an amazing fact, because she created such a genius of a masterpiece and then secluded . Quite similar to J.D. Salinger and it's a sort of a category of writers (loosely depicted by Sean Connerey in a later movie). Amoruso 00:53, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: very nice article

message: I think that it should be mentioned that an episode 8 Simple Rules featured Rory reading this book as part of a school assingment, Yes No?Monkey2619 22:47, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No. This is an article about To Kill a Mockingbird. Its contents should provide information and insight into it ... not mention every trivial instance it is referenced in popular culture. --Swift 23:34, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  8 Simple Rules 

message: Is Scout, Jem, and Atticus white or black?
:They are white. bibliomaniac15 00:19, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  White or Black? 

message: This line jumped out at me when reading the plot summary:
"The innocent Tom later tries to escape from prison and is shot to death (though it might be that he tried to escape so he could get shot deliberately because he wanted to die looking like a hero. However, in the book, it is said that he could've escaped if he had two good arms instead of one)."
Is this at all implied in the novel? Admittedly, it's been some time since I read it, but I'm trying to figure out why Tom would have effectively committed suicide so he could look like a 'hero' (an odd choice of words, I think, when describing a prison escapee).
Yes, I noticed that.  Honestly, this author sounds like a two-year old writing!  Tom does not do this to look like a hero, he instead does it to try to ecscape prison.  he hates it there, because he knows he didn't do the crime to get him there.  -Ell
You're absolutely right. I've removed that portion. Tozoku 22:38, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conjecture in Plot Summary? 

message: How come there is a picture of Eminem's Mockingbird CD there??? Realg187 16:24, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eminem 

message: I am not sure this is appropriate as this article is on the book not the play, any comment.
Daniel J. Leivick 01:09, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture From Theater Production 

message: Are you sure he's talking about the book? There's a children's lullaby about a man buying things for his daughter and one of the lines is: "And if that mockingbird don't sing, Papa's gonna buy you a diamond ring" 204.9.9.159 09:33, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eminem reference 

message: Substituted at 20:54, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment