Talk:List of driver deaths in motorsport

message: Changing the format into a sortable table would be helpful. -- Matthead  Discuß   00:09, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. DH85868993 (talk) 00:46, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sortable table? 

message: Why not limit the article to only drivers who have their own articles? This whole thing suffers far too much from recentism which is odd since as it states in the lead, motorsport is becoming safer over time (And I'm NOT including Manuel Quintana as a driver with an article!), so by limiting it to those drivers notable enough to have their own article we don't get huge long lists of more recent drivers who with the greatest respect, aren't very notable. As a secondary point, regardless of the decision above to remove flags, we definitely don't need BOTH a flag and an abbreviation of their nationality for each driver so if it's decided to keep the flags we should remove the abbreviations. A7V2 (talk) 21:41, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: That would not provide a solution because this an open-ended subject. Even if you do that, as the decades pass by we would inevitably reach the technical limit again.Tvx1 21:44, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

text: Technical comment, not a comment on your proposal (a proposal which does not have to be mutually exclusive with mine of course, i.e. we could do both): With regards to flags, we appear to be OK on article size by just removing the flag of the circuit. Therefore to keep things simple I've just proposed removing the country flags and optionally replacing with a country code, and not touching the driver column whatsoever. By "things" I mean 1) this discussion, 2) the alterations - the driver flag templates are rather harder to replace without writing code. --kingboyk (talk) 21:51, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: But that would really only buy us time. As I mentioned, the subjected is open-ended. The article and its table will keep being expanded and eventually the remaining templates would exceed the limit again. And in all honesty, I feel that this table can become to long to be useful to navigate through.Tvx1 22:00, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  You're either younger than me (sadly likely) or more pessimistic (unlikely) :) I would hope that technical advances here would outpace driver deaths, and that we should worry about a solution for today, today. By which I mean: reduce the template load by zapping the circuit flags, and no split. Looking at trimming the list too? Sure, no problem, we can do that too. --kingboyk (talk) 22:22, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

text:  I'm not convinced by this argument. Then literally every list which is as yet incomplete on Wikipedia suffers from this problem. We can take the argument further that even if we split the list say chronologically, then eventually the list of lists will become very long (in say, a thousand years or so) but this is not a helpful line of thinking. We should deal with the now and potentially the list could be split chronologically or by type (rally, grand prix etc. or whatever) but per (edit: not WP:LIST! See Wikipedia:Notability#Stand-alone_lists for what I meant) wikipedia shouldn't contain indiscriminate lists, hence my proposal. A7V2 (talk) 23:08, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

text: A reasonable limit would be that either the person, the event, the death itself, or maybe the location meets Wikipedia's notability requirements even if there is no article about the person, event, death, or location yet.  If a particular entry has no red- or blue-links, at least one of the entries should be at least a red-link or it should be considered for removal.  However, removing these instances won't buy us much.  What might buy us some breathing room is if we took a look at the entries that had no blue-links and said "are those red-links proper red-links?  Is it about a notable person/track/event/etc.?"  davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 21:57, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: There should definitely be some semi-formal standard for inclusion imho (e.g., as you say, notable driver and/or notable race and/or notable crash). I would suggest zap the photos to resolve the immediate technical issue, and work on the inclusion rules and editing the list as stage 2. --kingboyk (talk) 22:33, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes I definitely meant this as a more longer term solution to be in conjunction with other things and I probably could have chosen beter words than "Alternative Proposal"... and yes probably if the race or the incident have an article it should be included too, but I don't know about including just if the location is notable as there have been 10s of fatalities at several locations (eg the Nurburgring). A7V2 (talk) 23:08, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Sadly true, and I concur. I would disagree with including deaths just because they happened at a notable circuit too. The driver, the race/series, or the crash itself would need to be notable imho. Which circuit the fatality happened at is probably totally irrelevant actually. If Jim Clark had been killed in an illegal road race down my street we'd want it listed here; if I was killed while racing a 2CV around Spa we certainly wouldn't! --kingboyk (talk) 23:44, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

text:  So we don't over-complicate things/delay gaining consensus for the immediate action, perhaps you would like to rename your section to something like "Stage 2 proposal"? --kingboyk (talk) 23:48, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I've renamed the section.A7V2 (talk) 04:09, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Stage 2 Proposal

message: Having checked the different properties of the article because of the above discussion on the quantity of templates, I noticed that the sorting on date doesn't work properly at all. Instead of actually sorting by date, clicking on the sort button of the date column actually sorts the content alphabetically on the name of the month.Tvx1 21:54, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm, it's working for me.  I click on "Date of accident" and I get Attilio Caffariti, d. September 10, 1900.  The next one is Eliot Zborowski, d. April 1, 1903.  davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 21:59, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: If I try it, I get all those who perished in April first, then those from August and so on...Tvx1 22:01, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm, it could have something to do with your preferences and skin.  Some of the older skins may have bugs.  It could also be your web browser, it's support of scripting and such may have bugs.  Try on a different computer with a different web browser.  Also try without being logged in.  If you are using a mobile web browser, try either desktop mode or the Wikipedia app.  If it is a skin, you will need to file a bug report. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 22:13, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sorting issue 

message: Wikipedia once had a list of over 2500 people in the Line of succession to the British Throne.  It didn't use many templates though, it was under 300KB in its "Post-expand include size".  davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 22:31, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably because no flags were needed as they're all German! :) /jk --kingboyk (talk) 22:49, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: From different incarnations of Germany with different flags though. ;) Tvx1 00:34, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hey, at least we don't have a huge list 

message: This is a cheat-sheet of flag codes and years so the flags in Driver deaths in motorsport will be correct.  For a list of country aliases and flag variants for a country, go to Special:PrefixIndex, set the namespaces as Template, and set the prefix as Country data name of country.
Please make changes and sign the change log at the bottom.
country                                     	aliases                	relevant variants                                        	current flag dates                                                             	comments
Italy                                       	ITA                    	1861, 1943, 2003                                         	2006+                                                                          	
Trieste                                     	                       	none                                                     	1947-1954                                                                      	
Czechoslovakia                              	CSK, TCH               	1918 is :File:Flag of Bohemia.svg                        	1920-1939, 1945-1992                                                           	
Czech Republic                              	CZE                    	none                                                     	1993+                                                                          	
Slovakia                                    	SVK                    	1938 is :File:Flag of First Slovak Republic 1939-1945.svg	3 Sept. 1992+                                                                  	
Slovak Republic (1939-1945)                 	                       	none                                                     	1939-1945                                                                      	same as Slovakia 1938
Germany                                     	DEU                    	1866, 1919, 1933, 1935, 1949                             	1949                                                                           	West Germany 1949-1989
German Empire                               	                       	none                                                     	1871-1918                                                                      	
Weimar Republic                             	                       	1918, 1919                                               	1919-1933                                                                      	
Nazi Germany                                	                       	1933                                                     	1935-1945                                                                      	
Allied-occupied Germany                     	                       	none                                                     	1946-1949                                                                      	
Saar Protectorate                           	SAA                    	LON is :File:Flag of Saar 1920-1935.svg                  	1947-1956, :File:Flag of Saar 1920-1935.svg                                    	
Saarland                                    	                       	n/a                                                      	1920-1935                                                                      	use Saar Protectorate LON
West Germany                                	FRG                    	none                                                     	1949-1989                                                                      	
German Democratic Republic                  	DDR, GDR               	1949                                                     	1 October 1963                                                                 	East Germany
West Berlin                                 	                       	none                                                     	1949?-1989                                                                     	
United States                               	USA                    	1896, 1908, 1912, 1959, 1960 ("Pantone")                 	1960                                                                           	1960 variant has incorrect colors, flag changes were always adopted on the 4th of July
Libya                                       	LBY, LBA               	1864, 1911, 1949, 1951, 1969, 1972, 1977                 	2011                                                                           	
Italian Libya                               	                       	none                                                     	1934-1943                                                                      	same as Libya 1911
Hong Kong                                   	HKG, "Hong Kong, China"	1876, 1910, 1955, 1959                                   	1997                                                                           	
Russian Empire                              	                       	1858                                                     	1896-1917                                                                      	
Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic	Russian SFSR           	1917 is :File:Flag of Russia (1918).svg, 1918            	1918 version should be used as "current" in the period relevant to this article	Became part of the Soviet Union in 1922
Soviet Union                                	SUN                    	1922, 1923, 1924, 1936, 1955                             	1955-1991                                                                      	
Russia                                      	RUS                    	1991                                                     	1993+                                                                          	
Editing log. The most recent date in this section will be used by archiving bots, so make sure this section ends with a signature.
* Initial version davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 00:26, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flag table 

message: There is a reason you see things like  scattered throughout the article.
Replacing these "expanded" flag icon templates with the actual flag icon templates can cause the page to come closer to or possibly exceed Wikipedia's post expansion include size limits.
If you must replace them, do NOT use .  Instead, use the module-wrapper template  with  or use Module:Flagg directly.  Basically, instead of , use , replacing AAA with the appropriate 3-letter code.
As far as  goes, that template is begging to be re-written as a WP:Lua WP:Module.  davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 19:08, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flag icons and Wikipedia limits 

message: You have been saying that I and another editor are "making a mess" by "reverting" - please describe the "mess."
Also, please note that the reason the flags were "expanded" with this edit last February was because the page previously exceeded Wikipedia's technical limits, causing templates at the bottom of the page to stop working (broken revision).  See WP:PEIS for details.
Any "undoing" of this expansion must be done in a way that won't "break the wiki."  The way you are doing it, by simply going back to , is all but guaranteed to cause problems.  Please use  or Module:Flagg instead.  davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 03:28, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  What "mess" - attention non-logged-in editor