Talk:Joe Horn shooting controversy

message: The name of this section, whilst accurate, is imo connotated enough in normal usage to suggest that the shooter was a criminal, but it's a minor quibble. However, there are two competing claims as to the date of Mr. Horn's retirement, one stating that he reitred from AT&T in 1998, and one that he retired in 2003; both are wholly unsourced. I thought a comment here would be better than two citation tags for the one discrepancy.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.171.129.189 (talk) 08:33, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it's very much incorrect as "shooter" implies wrongdoing in modern usage of the word, even if it's technically accurate. The law found he had no wrongdoing so we shouldn't imply that in the article either. That can be handled in a controversy section. Ergzay (talk) 21:33, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Shooter" section 

message: Was wondering if perhaps a section (not an article) should be made of the major players, particularly these two since they were apparently part of a major crime ring and a string of robberies in the areas before they were killed. --Hourick (talk) 15:11, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So long as they are well sourced I think it would be a good addition. will381796 (talk) 15:59, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Diego Ortiz Hernando Riascos Torres section 

message: good job on the cleanup on this article. It's much, much improved since last week. Xdeserted (talk) 07:54, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey thanks! Really I'm surprised it's not getting more attention, it's such a fascinating issue. That tape really is riveting. DBaba (talk) 01:39, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, good job on my bad initial article on it. Wanted to at least give it a quick start and hope people would start editing this instead of just adding onto Quanell's page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hourick (talk • contribs) 14:01, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Yeah, this needed an article so good work on that. I'm surprised it hasn't got more attention yet since it's been covered on several television shows and in the news. It might help to find ways of linking this to other wikipedia articles, maybe ones that have lists of current events and so on. Another possibility would be to submit this to appear on the "Did you know" section of the main wikipedia page. That has generated traffic for past articles of mine. Don't worry, there will be more to come on this as the trial develops. Do we even know what the charges against Horn will be? Deatonjr (talk) 04:26, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nice Job 

message: The statement that most Americans rightly consider Joe Horn to be a murderer needs to be cited. If this statement is backed up by a survey, the numbers should be added in also. If this is a statement of opinion it needs to be removed from the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shuanmo (talk • contribs) 19:20, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I don't believe the "most" part either. Actually I think that most sane people would consider that Joe Horn rightly shot the two burglars. But then that's also only my opinion.--196.207.47.60 (talk) 13:38, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations needed 

message: Here is an interesting Wikipedia article that may be relevant to this story. Make My Day State -- Maybe Texas should be added to the list. Deatonjr (talk) 11:03, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. I'm surprised it wasn't the first state listed on there. --Hourick (talk) 14:48, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

text: After reading it a bit more closely, I'm not entirely sure that it would be appropriate to put Texas, particularly after rereading this quote:
refers to those states in the United States that allow the lawful occupier of a premises to use violent or deadly force against an intruder no questions asked.
Of course ANY shooting would be under investigation even if it was obvious the homeowner was using it for self defense. While I'm not saying the scenarios has NOT happened (since we're dealing with the human condition), this has a serious bias.--Hourick (talk) 15:21, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Interesting Article 

message: I've noticed the article "Man who killed suspects shot them in the back, police say" no longer appears on chron.com, or the link is incorrect. Deatonjr (talk) 15:15, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: took care of the link with another active article. Thank goodness for Chron's auto search feature. --Hourick (talk) 15:32, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article Pull 

message: I ran across this article in today's Chronicle which I think is relevant, but for the life of me, I dont' have the braincells to figure out a way to sit it in properly. Any suggestions? LinkHourick (talk) 04:01, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tie in to previous home invasion 

message: Any updates, was the dude ever indited??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fsu23phd (talk • contribs) 04:30, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There was an article in the Houston Chronicle i think yesterday on the front of the City section. It said there may be a decision on Horn's case within the next week. Deatonjr (talk) 12:23, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Updates?

message: I have mixed feelings on the removal from this category. This case has the potential for far reaching effects in law, but since the case isn't yet decided, it i not of historical note. On a slightly related note, perhaps it should be put in on the wikilaw? It might be notable enough for that. --Hourick (talk) 19:11, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  History of Texas Removal 

message: It is stated that this is the first instance (in Texas at least) that someone has been acquitted since the Castle Doctrine was approved in Texas. I've been struggling to figure out how to incorporate it in the Jury's decision section. Anyone have any ideas?   --Hourick (talk) 19:41, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Castle Doctrine... 

message: In September 2007, Texas law created the "Castle Doctrine", supposedly making it "Legal" for Residents to apply deadly force as a form of self-deffense. That's why Horn himself took matters into his hands making it obvious that if he would have allowed the suspects go then he might as well could have been the one to end up shot. The two deceased suspects (both Colombian nationals/Illegals) Hernando Torres and Diego Ortiz, both shot in the back, either way even if they would have stop to a complete freeze ... Mr.Horn was still going to shoot.
:: There is no proof for the last statement. There is good reason to believe that there is a possibility that Horn shot, because he felt threatened - They were on his property, right.
What fried many to burst in fury after Horn's June 30, 2008 grand jury hearing was that he was found "Not Guilty" and was cleared of all charges anyway. It turns out (according to Houston newspapers and other media) that his deffense attorney (Tom Lambright) and the judge are "FRIENDS", and now many Houston residents are suspecting that this trio's friendship may have played a role in clearing Horn's case ... to many, the grand jury's decision dropped worse than an F-bomb. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.240.252.117 (talk) 12:35, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  That's irrelevent, it would have gone either way. Had the grand jury upheld charges and indictedh Horn, a similar number would be upset with that ruling as well. Also, anybody who's worked in district courts can attest that most lawyers and judges have both professional and personal relationships... they work together all year, it's impossible not to develop some sort of relationship. Whether that alters the result of a case, especially one with a grand jury, is not proveable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.116.194.150 (talk) 20:25, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Texas Law Made Changes in September 2007 

message: Link to a Time article dated 7/3/08:
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1820028,00.html?xid=rss-topstories
Contributors to this article should be on the lookout for nationwide reactions to the verdict on this case since it was decided only within the last week. Deatonjr (talk) 19:04, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Time Magazine Article

message: If they had been French-Irish would that have been made as prominent? And they weren't American, they were illegals.TheDarkOneLives (talk) 18:04, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The ethnicity of the burglars, as well as of the neighbors whose house was being hit by the burglars, are all verified by the cites. The article text is verified by the cites. Have reverted the removal of this information, as it is important, especially with regards to readers understanding the Quanell X demonstrations. (Quanell X wouldn't have been demonstrating had the burglars been French-Irish.) Yaf (talk) 19:18, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The sentence as it reads now clarifies that they were illegals from Colombia, but "Afro-Latino" instead of "Afro-Latin American" is accurate and would be clearer and less cumbersome. When you stick "Afro" in front of Latin-American, it looks similar to "Afro-American" which has an entirely different connotation - i.e. "American" connotes the USA. Afro-Americans are American citizens with African heritage. The dead burglars were not American citizens. In this case using Afro-Latino would just be a cleaner way of saying it. TheDarkOneLives (talk) 21:32, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Afro-Latin American is the complete expression, but this ethnicity is also commonly referred to as Afro-Latino. Using  Afro-Latino would be fine. I also took out the repeated wiki-link that appeared later in the article. The article is definitely better worded now, with less likelihood for confusing readers. Good sequence of edits, overall, I think. Thanks. Yaf (talk) 21:39, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Afro-Latin-American? 

message: Will someone please just START a Wiki article on Ersland? http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2009/11/murder-trial-set-for-okla-pharmacist-for-killing-drugstore-robber/1
It looks like the more peaceful people in Oklahoma and the prosecutor's office do not understand the effects of adrenaline. - BG —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.163.127.28 (talk) 15:56, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jerome Jay Ersland shooting 

message: Could someone explain to a non-American reader what 'no-bill' means? I assume this simply means Horn was acquitted, but it's a piece of legal terminology I'm not familiar with, and we don't seem to have a page on it. Robofish (talk) 15:40, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not knowledgable enough on the topic to phrase it properly, so I'll just send you a link.  But basically its what a grand jury gives when there is insufficient cause to file criminal charges. --Hourick (talk) 17:40, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It's jargon, in a way. A grand jury returns a "bill of indictment", a list of charges they consider worthy to be taken to trial. Or they do not return such a bill, hence "no-bill". htom (talk) 18:38, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Elaborating, he was not charged, and had no opportunity to be either acquitted or convicted. htom (talk) 18:18, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I gave no bill a link to indictment which has somewhat of an explanation of what the term no bill is. Dancindazed (talk) 20:57, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  No-bill? 

message: "Horn stated that he had the right to use deadly force to defend property, referring to a law (Texas Penal Code §§ 9.41, 9.42, and 9.43) which justified the use of deadly force to protect Horn's home." This is simply not true. I just listened to the call and the closest he came to saying such a thing was "you know the laws have changed since september 1st" and "A shotgun is not an illegal weapon." The way the article writes this, it makes the man seem like he had some kind of great knowledge of the law and he knew that if he killed them it was completely legal, when the only legal reference he made was his rights to defend himself and carry the weapon. Dancindazed (talk) 20:51, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Putting words in his mouth. 

message: The link supporting "Police initially identified the dead men in Horn's yard as 38-year-old Miguel Antonio DeJesus and Diego Ortiz, 30, both residents of Houston, and of Afro-Latino descent. However, DeJesus was actually an alias of an individual named Hernando Riascos Torres" is broken and cannot be substantiated, especially in reference to them being of Afro-Latino descent.  This is not a recognized demographic group in the United States and is obviously someone's open opinion as to their race.  Since the article then goes on to talk about them being from Columbia, this further details the lack of evidence to Afro-latino descent.  It is an overt attempt to insert racism into the article.  The names would also have to be researched as they are both based on the same broken link.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.60.147.129 (talk) 20:32, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Broken Link 

message: Why is Glenn Beck the only one whose reaction is mentioned? I'm pretty sure I remember their being other notable commentators on the Joe Horn shooting controversy besides just Glenn Beck. Therefore,as I've added the expansion tag since the section is currently to short given the degree of controversy this incident created. --67.101.223.176 (talk) 08:40, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reactions section is too short 

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thread_title:  External links modified