Talk:Paris massacre of 1961

message: This article needs an intro paragraph appearing before the TOC summarizing its contents briefly.  You make this by writing a paragaph at the top without a double-equals-sign header.  Someone more familiar with the matter discussed by this article than I am ought to write it. --arkuat (talk) 04:43, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I gave it a shot. Probably the language needs some cleanup, as usual x-) -790 12:43, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Intro paragraph

message: I moved this here. Putting things into context is important, but it should not be done in a section in the end, named "wider implications", stuck between two other very precise sections. To the contrary, introduction to the context should be put... in the introduction. Furthermore, it has to be rewritten, sourced and all. The authors of the article had assumed, maybe erroneously, that a link to the Algerian War entry was enough to put into context. Currently, this passage looks like a lame attempt to justify this massacre. Strangely, instead of referring to the FLN attacks against the police (for the good reason that I had already documented this, with sources), it goes on talking about the café wars, an article which needs improvement. I don't see how the café wars explain why French police threw up to 200 Algerians in the Seine. Here is the disputed passage, for discussion:
"Wider implications" [name of subsection]
Given the high number of victims, the decades-long silence on the massacre may be a reflection of the fragile state of civil rights and justice when people and governments feel threatened by events beyond their control. 
On the other hand, it may be a reflection of the fact that the killings took place in the middle of a large scale and brutal war in which at least 380,000 died, and there is an endless number of atrocities, on both sides, that could be discussed. 5,000 died in the "café wars" in France between the Algerian FLN and rival Algerian groups. European descended civilian casualties exceeded 10,000 (including 3,000 dead) in 42,000 recorded terrorist incidents. More than two million Algerians were displaced. Thousands of Algerians were tortured and killed in French Army or Police custody. Many captured French soldiers were tortured to death by the Algerian independence fighters. The Paris Massacre, and reporting of it, took place in this context, in which there was a constant stream of violent events to be reported. 
Human rights issues were an important issue for French newspapers and the French electorate throughout the war. The scandal of the use of torture (the electric gégène) had disastrous morale effects. By the end of the war human rights were a more important issue than the preservation of French Algeria. Public support for French Algeria was low by the end of the war, in part as a response to the human rights question. Jean-Paul Sartre, for example, supported the Jeanson network, of which Henri Curiel was an active member. Human rights issues were widely reported and bitterly debated, and while the Paris Massacre may not have been constantly discussed as a specific event, it certainly falls into the overall issue of human rights which was very extensively debated.
Tazmaniacs 17:22, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moved subsection 

message: the OAS, a far right terrorist group
presenting the OAS as a far right terrorist group and the FLN as teddy bears is the communist cliché.  however this is unneutral, unsourced and probably false. Shame On You 00:16, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is Wikipedia.  Enough said.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.229.198.183 (talk) 05:05, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Neutrality disputed

message: I'm happy to see all of the work done on this article from the small summary I edited six years ago. "Sunlight" on such events hopefully helps to prevent them going forward, as well as build a dialogue among folks with different perspectives and sentiments on the issue. Thank you to all, including critical reviewers, for helping to expand and hone this work. - EcoMan  — Preceding unsigned comment added by EcoMan (talk • contribs) 19:14, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Thanks

message: This event occurred in 1961. There have to be at least a few dozen photographs that relate to it that could be featured. So WHY is there only one photo of a placque on a building? Give me a (redacted) break. --76.115.67.114 (talk) 07:14, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Because pictures are only royalty-free 70 years after the death of their author. This event occured 50 years ago, which means that there are few free images we can use. See here () for more informations. And please, stay polite...DITWIN GRIM (talk) 07:36, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Why only one photo?

message: With respect... as per WP:RETAIN the article should use American English. See  (the oldest revision I could find with any marker of any variety of English). Red Slash 20:16, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: AmE

message: Was this a massacre?
It looks like this article pushes the usage of the massacre word in this context, when according to some source, the massacre wording is controversial: -- 19:54, 23 November 2015 77.199.98.21
;Mises en cause de la qualification de massacre
L'historien Jean-Paul Brunet, qui estime de trente à cinquante les victimes décédées, indique que vu le .. S'appuyant sur une autre définition, les deux auteurs anglais House et MacMaster renoncent au titre Paris massacre parce qu'il ne s'agit pas d'un ..
Pendant le procès en diffamation intenté par Maurice Papon à l'écrivain Jean-Luc Einaudi, et face au substitut Lesclous qui utilise le terme massacre, M Varaut soutient que .
;References
:::77.199.98.21 -- see under "Boston Massacre" at WP:TITLE... AnonMoos (talk) 02:49, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Was this a massacre? 

message: Apparently it is only one historian who states the death toll to be 200, while most others seem to be well below. I am not well versed on the subject, truly, but is there any merit in taking '200' out of the main infobox?35.16.89.146 (talk) 18:32, 17 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  200 deaths source? 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Paris massacre of 1961. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071211113942/http://www.saphirnews.com/Une-station-de-metro-17-Octobre-1961-_a6043.html to http://www.saphirnews.com/Une-station-de-metro-17-Octobre-1961-_a6043.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070927231343/http://www.liberte-algerie.com/edit.php?id=72469 to http://www.liberte-algerie.com/edit.php?id=72469
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070804231122/http://chelhab.football.fr/2007/02/18/207-une-station-de-metro-pres-de-paris-baptisee-17-octobre-1961 to http://chelhab.football.fr/2007/02/18/207-une-station-de-metro-pres-de-paris-baptisee-17-octobre-1961
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071020184243/http://www.mfo.ac.uk/Publications/comptesrendus/branche.htm to http://www.mfo.ac.uk/Publications/comptesrendus/branche.htm
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 07:49, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I hesitated to change "Mr. Papon, prefect of the police, and Mr. Legay, general director of the municipal police, assisted to these horrible scenes..." since it's contained within a blockquote, but "assisted to" is a very phony and incorrect translation from French (should be "were present at these horrible scenes"). AnonMoos (talk) 02:40, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: hello, Thanks for pointing this out. I have Einaudi's book at home, and attempted a better translation of the text. Hope this helps. Womtelo (talk) 08:23, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for changing "assisted", which is one of those "faux amis" which annoys me... AnonMoos (talk) 15:27, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Poor translation

message: I added information into the Recent Events section about the sealed police archives that were not reopened until the 90's, 3 decades after the massacre took place. I also added information about President Hollande and how his acknowledgement of the massacre in October 2012 related to his address to Algerian Parliament later that year and some of the reactions to these two events. I included links to some sources I used if anyone is looking for more information about Einaudi's research, Hollande and Algeria, or the event in general.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Redactora234512 (talk • contribs) 19:30, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure, thanks. FYI, the references in footnotes were suboptimal: ideally you would add more than just the URL link; also, links to Jstor didn't work, because they were going through your university's server. It's alright, I've fixed those footnotes;  just telling you if it helps for future edits. Best, Womtelo (talk) 09:04, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent Events updates 

message: Crimes against humanity is a specific legal concept. In order to be included in the category, the event (s) must have been prosecuted as a crime against humanity, or at a bare minimum be described as such by most reliable sources. Most of the articles that were formerly in this category did not mention crimes against humanity at all, and the inclusion of the category was purely original research. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 07:49, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Crimes against humanity category removal