Talk:Proton Persona

message: Paralell to Talk:Proton Waja here the same question:
Proton itself announces a new sedan with name Proton Persona  So is there real e relation between new Waja and this codename? Sandmann4u (talk) 05:30, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Sedan 

message: There has been much confusion regarding the classification of the three different Proton Persona models. I will take this opportunity to explain the situation at hand;
:Officially, Proton has not clearly defined whether the all-new 2016 Persona is the second or third generation model. In some press reports, it was reported as the second generation model, however, there were no mentions of the original 1993 Proton Persona. Because the current Proton management has seemingly not acknowledged the existence of the 1993 Persona, it is not possible to conclude anything with certainty. It seems that by default, the 2016 Persona will be formally and informally referred to as the 'second generation Persona' in the Malaysian market. For Malaysians, that will not be an issue, but on the Proton Persona Wikipedia article, it is a difficult situation, because Wikipedia caters to an international audience.
There are three different models of Proton Persona; the 1993 Persona, the 2007 Persona and 2016 Persona. The problem now is that the three models need to be classified in a manner which will appease all parties. Before the launch of the 2016 Persona, this was not an issue, but now that the 2016 Persona has succeeded the 2007 Persona in Malaysia, there is a need for continuity.
:There are only two ways to classify the three different models; the first method would be that the 1993 Persona becomes the first generation model, followed by the second gen 2007 Persona and lastly the third gen 2016 Persona. The second way would be to just ignore the 1993 Persona, and classify the 2007 Persona as the first generation and 2016 Persona as the second gen. The first scenario would make perfect sense for those who are familiar with Proton cars in the U.K. and Australia. But from a Malaysian perspective, this is borderline heresy, because most Malaysians have no idea that the Proton Wira was sold as the 'Proton Persona' in some export markets. In fact, the 'Proton Persona' nameplate was already in use long before the launch of the 2007 Persona in Malaysia. Naturally, most Malaysians will view the 2007 Persona as the first generation, because it is the first model to use the Persona nameplate in Malaysia. But when Proton exported the 2007 Persona to the U.K. and Australia, it was seen as the second generation model, the successor to the old 1990s Persona.
Everything I've said above is largely factual or de facto. Everything I say from now on is the result of how I chose to solve the problem at hand.
:Initially, I had planned to title the 2016 Persona as the second generation model. But after some time and consideration, I felt that this approach was much too polarised to the Malaysian perspective. To say that the 2007 Persona is the first generation Persona, would mean ignoring the legacy of the 1993 Persona. Had it sold poorly in the U.K. (Proton's biggest export market at the time), it would have been long forgotten, but it sold well enough that Proton named the 2007 Persona in its honour. The other issue here is the fact that the same car had different names depending on where it was sold; in Malaysia, it was called 'Proton Wira', in the U.K., Australia and Chile it was 'Proton Persona', and in Europe it was 'Proton 413/415/416/418', or 'Proton 400 Series'. There was also the 'Proton Natura' in Chile, which is the name given to the 5-door Aeroback model. To compound the confusion, Proton would later use the Wira nameplate in the U.K. (from August 2000) as part of a refresh, and in Australia, the car was originally called 'Proton Wira' at launch, only to be renamed 'Proton Persona' a year later.
However, with the launch of the 2007 Persona, only the 'Proton Persona' nameplate was 'renewed'. The Wira, Natura and 400 Series have been dormant ever since. Here is a simple illustration which highlights the continuity.
:Ultimately, both 1993 Persona and Wira are interchangeable, as they're both referring to the same car. Ultimately, the 2007 Persona replaced the Wira and the 1993 Persona, in other words, the 2007 Persona was always 'number two'. It's not so much about the model name itself... than the market positioning they're in; the Wira/ Persona has always been the 'mid-range' Proton sedan, above the Saga and below the Perdana, and that never changed for all these years. In between the Perdana and Persona/ Wira, there was the 'no man's land' which the Waja, Inspira and now Prevé sit.
Due to the controversial nature of the situation, I chose not title the new 2016 Persona article as 'Proton Persona (third generation)'. Instead, I have used the VIN model code for more precise disambiguation; 'Proton Persona (BH)'. Many will question... what the heck is BH ? Why is there no mention of this 'BH' anywhere in Proton's official statements and even among the press ? It is actually very simple, every modern car has a VIN. And on every VIN, you will find its model code among others. Historically, Proton has stamped their VINs under the bonnet, on the frame in front of where the driver would sit. Some models had VIN codes etched onto the front and rear windscreens. With Proton's newer models, you will find the VIN plate on the driver's side door opening, on the very bottom of the B-pillar.
:For the 1993 Persona/ Wira, the VIN model codes are C95, C96, C97, C98 and C99. The second number refers to the engine under the bonnet, and for the sake of simplicity, it is often ignored or nullified. Thus, the basic VIN code for the 1993 Persona would be just C90. The 2007 Persona only had one code, CM6. The 2016 Persona has the code BH6. Again, the '6' refers to the engine, and in this case, we can just ignore it. To find out more about other Proton VIN codes and how you can decode them, please click here.
The main benefit of using VIN model codes is that they're far less ambiguous and in many cases, very precise. For example, when one says 'CM Persona', you know it refers to the 2007 Persona. But when one says 'second generation Persona', people in Malaysia might say it's the 2016 Persona, but others in Australia for example might say it's the 2007 Persona. This is why many car articles on Wikipedia tend to use the model codes, not the ambiguous 'generation' title. And this is why I chose to name the articles 'Proton Persona (BH)' and 'Proton Persona (CM)'. I am not simply making my own rules here, this is as per Wikipedia guidelines, specifically WP:MODELCODE. Some may ask, why didn't I use 'P2-31A' instead ? I understand that this is Proton's internal code for the 2016 Persona, but because Proton has not publicly announced their internal codes for many of their other models, it is best to default to the publicly available VIN model code instead. Once again, this is no different from what is already seen at other Wikipedia car articles, such as Honda Civic for example.
:Wikipedia is an international portal, and when it comes to car models that are sold in many different countries, editors should take into account the perspectives of all major parties. The 1993 Persona/ Wira was exported to as many as 65 countries, and because it sold well enough in the U.K., it is only fair to integrate that part of the story in the Persona lineage. Even though it's true that Malaysia is the biggest and most important market for Proton, we cannot simply ignore others' perspectives, it would not be fair if we just did things 'our way'.
I hope this explanation will help clarify any confusions. I spent a long time thinking about this, and I believe this is the most effective approach. There are only minimal mentions of 'first/ second/ third generation' among the three Proton Persona articles, and most of the disambiguation is done using the model codes, namely C90 Persona, CM Persona and BH Persona. The model codes serve as a good 'common ground' for all parties. Hopefully, Proton will make an official statement on the three different Persona models in the near future.
:Should you believe that my approach is unreasonable or even heretical, please feel free to discuss your perspective here. However, please refrain from altering the classification without prior explanation on this talk page.
Regards, Aero777 (talk) 17:04, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proton Persona generations