Talk:Earth-616

message: Uatu didn't mistakenly refer to it as 616, there was an event that was affecting earth 616 into that state, at the end of the series that new universe was transformed into a new earth of its own.
:This is indeed true.  Have altered page so.  Morwen - Talk 14:40, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  1602 

message: I heard somewhere that it was because at the time Marvel had precisely 616 superheroes. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.72.21.221 (talk) 23:28, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dude, I thought.. 

message: This seems so far-fetched that I'm fairly certain it'll never be substantiated:
For many years, the headquarters of DC Comics was located at 666 Fifth Avenue in New York City. Thus, the name could be a subtle joke that the DC Universe was Earth-666 while the Marvel Universe was Earth-616. 
How long does it remain as an uncited statement before it's removed?
(Of course, if someone can cite an article, interview, or text that substantiates the point, I'll withdraw my objection to it.)--Galliaz 11:52, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Far-fetched 

message: I'm concerned that the entry presently uses remarks made by Alan Davis at Tom Brevoort's blog to establish what David Thorpe's thoughts or intentions were in the 1980s.  While Davis could (of course) serve as a source to establish what he himself thought and intended at that time, he can't actually serve as a reliable source for Thorpe's motivations.--Galliaz 22:32, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ralaven, I should've said that I find that Moore info is problematic, too!  I know that Davis had a close working (and probably personal) connection to Thorpe.  But my point is that short of independent substantiation of Thorpe's thoughts, ideas, and intentions from the 1980s (established through a contemporary Thorpe interview, letter, memo, or diary), the entry can't independently substantiate Davis's contentions.  They have to be listed as Davis's contentions, rather than things that Thorpe thought, did, or said.  Now, I'm not saying they might not be true — we just have nothing else to cite that might show that  Davis is right.--Galliaz 12:31, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm afraid I disagree. The negative from Moore wasn't a "I don't remember, it was probably random," it was a "everyone else was choosing low numbers, so I picked a random high one," (paraphrasing); read the above discussion, Moore's son-in-law was asked to ask Moore what the origin of the term was, did so, and reported it back. How is what he reported somehow less "believable" than what Davis has reported? What we have here is two people involved in the creation of the strip reporting two different and incompatable origins for the term, which means one of them has got it wrong. Personally, since Davis is accrediting the creation to someone else (which means, imo, he is more likely to be misremembering) and since Moore's statement makes it clear he believes he created the term, and given that Moore has throughout his career been scrupulous about giving credit to his fellow creators, that Moore had taken it down a radically different path than Thorpe had intended for it AND that the term "Earth-616" didn't turn up until about a year after Thorpe had quit writing the strip, I'm inclined to believe Moore is remembering it correctly. 158.152.61.103 12:44, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

text: My point is:  we have a statement from someone other than Moore reporting what Moore said.  We don't have a source (interview, article, letter) in which Moore himself makes a definitive statement.  One doesn't have to cast aspersions on the veracity/reliablitiy of the "reporter" in order to recognize that there's a difference between an "I thought X, Y, and Z" statement and an "A told me he thought X, Y, and Z" statement.  I know this seems like nit-picking, but in establishing a chain of information/evidence, there is a real distinction.--Galliaz 02:30, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm assuming that you're not referring to my comments, because I have avoided the issue of credence or "reliability" altogether.  Your last comment more or less re-stated the points that I have made in my own previous comments, up until your final clause, where you said: but the discussion on the topic here thus far hasn't been as balanced.  I haven't ever speculated about "who might be more credible," instead limiting my comments to the fact that the entry confronts a similar source issue in both the Moore and Davis contentions. If anything, they are equally reliable/unreliable.--Galliaz 03:04, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd like to request that commenters here please sign their comments.--Galliaz 11:05, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alan Davis info 

message: Yes, in Infinite Crisis Alexander Luthor messes with alternate earths. But I fail to see how the numbers have any relation with the main marvel universe. Frankly, the character of Access has more of a connection with the D.C. universe and Marvel universe. After all, several limited series of Access meeting with Marvel (and D.C.) heroes...then Access shows up in a regular issue of Green Lantern. Much more direct then some math. No offense meant. Lots42 (talk) 10:50, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Allusions Outside Marvel Comics 

message: This article needs the B-Class checklist filled in to remain a B-Class article for the Comics WikiProject.  If the checklist is not filled in by 7th August this article will be re-assessed as C-Class.  The checklist should be filled out referencing the guidance given at Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment/B-Class criteria. For further details please contact the Comics WikiProject.  Comics-awb (talk) 16:25, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: WikiProject Comics B-Class Assesment required

message: I added the template for the following reasons;
1. Did someone at DC Comics confirmed that they were refering to Marvel's Civil War storyline, if so a source should be given, otherwise it's just original research.
2. I fail to see the connection between the designation of the main Marvel Earth with "the beast from the book of Revalations", so this part should be removed from the article, unless someone has a good reason to let the text stay.  91.95.6.80 (talk) 00:56, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I decided to delete the Beast ref because no matter how you look at it, it's not an allusion to Marvel's main continuity. Even if Tom DeFalco said 'We're going to name out continuity for the number of the beast', that'd be a ref for a biblical wikipedia article. And I deleted the DC comics one, mainly for safety, because there are HUGE legalistic morasses between the intellectual propertities. I know, I know, but Wikipedia prefers caution in the face of doubt. Lots42 (talk) 04:22, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Original research? 

message: As this B-Class article has yet to receive a review, it has been rated as C-Class. If you disagree and would like to request an assesment, please visit Wikipedia:WikiProject_Comics/Assessment#Requesting_an_assessment and list the article. Hiding T  14:00, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: C-Class rated for Comics Project

message: 1961 June, or '61, sixth month, which was when they finished work on Fantastic Four #1, cover date November 61.
This is pure speculation, but could be the beginning for serious research.  I suspect that this is the original rationale for 616 even if the creators themselves forgot about it.
Kid Bugs (talk) 18:57, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Except that the Marvel Universe technically began with "Marvel Mystery Comics #1" by Timely Comics published in October 1939, and even if you're going by the first comics printed under the name "Marvel" it wasn't "Fantastic Four #1" but "Amazing Adventures #3" in May (August) 1961. 24.190.34.219 (talk) 03:00, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  It is the date that the Marvel Universe was created 

message: I propose that Earth-616 be merged into Marvel Universe. I think that the content in the Earth-616 article can easily be explained in the context of the Mavel Universe article, and that the two articles explain the same subject but using different terminology and contexts, which is not necessary and makes it more difficult to find relevant information. Goodsmudge (talk) 09:35, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed merge into [[Marvel Universe]] 

message: I asked David about this in an e-Mail, and he says:"616 = number of the beast minus five years (Bowie) x 10".  This appears to reference the song "Five Years" from David Bowie's Ziggy Stardust album.  The lyrics include "News guy wept and told us, earth was really dying".  Near the end of the song, the words "five years" are included about 20 times, so perhaps the "x 10" is just a way of guessing "a whole lot of five year periods" without playing back the song & counting?   Metrolyrics  It is the 1st song on the album, released 1972-06-06, a decade before the 1st mention of Earth-616 in Captian Britan in 1983.  Does anybody actually have The Daredevils comic book in question with the 1st known reference to Earth-616?  What happens in that story?  Are the 50 earths between 616 & 666 (five years x 10) important in the story?  The article could be improved with an image of that issue, if anybody has one.
Here's a wayback machine link to the Moore 616 blog postAce Frahm (talk) 22:59, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  David Thorpe 

message: Substituted at 13:59, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: In the article currently, there is a statement that in the new movie "the main Marvel Cinematic Universe continuity is stated to exist on "Earth-616"." which is technically true in the trailer (and the movie).  However, in the complete film, this statement is suggested to have been a lie, and likely is not representative of the actual canon of the Marvel Cinematic Universe.  So this might be worth editing to clarify, rather than its current phrasing which implies something of definite truth.  (also Hello!  This is my first time poking around editing Wikipedia and I've no clue what I'm doing.) PeregrineDown (talk) 15:52, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Use in Spider-Man: Far From Home

message: The "TRN" or "temporary reality numbers" used in the Marvel Multiverse box at the bottom of the page are not official and were made up by the Marvel Comics Database wiki for universes that Marvel hasn't designated a number for. Why are they being used here? 2001:569:FB92:CF00:90D8:98F3:D093:895F (talk) 19:04, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  TRN not an official designation 

message: Being as the "616" designation was coined around 1983, and the 616 "variation" of the commonly recognized 666 didn't come to public knowledge until the 2005 release of the relevant Papyrus 115 fragment, that particular theory of the Earth-616 name origin seems utterly insupportable and full of gaping holes. I even read some commentary that the coiner "took 666 and subtracted 50." That makes as little sense. Why not subtract 10? Or 60? Or 66? Or 18? Or 36? The "random number" theory makes more sense than all of that.
Add to it, if Davis's "number of the beast" insinuation came as a subsequent refutation to the Reppion message-board "arbitrary number" assertion in 2005, that would have been around the time the 616 "alternative" became public with the release of the deciphered Papyrus 115 fragment. Seems there was some spinning going on. Something doesn't add up.MacheathWasABadBadMan (talk) 02:24, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Number of the beast variation" speculation