Talk:Bianca Jagger

message: This does need more content, not simply a redirect. I mean, her name is practically synonymous with Studio 54. Mike H 11:02, Dec 6, 2004 (UTC)
:Sure! If you have information that justifies an independent article, than please add and it change the redirect to a simple link. As the article stands, her only claim to fame is being the ex-wife of a celebrity (information that was already in the original article.) Sander123 10:48, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: The redirect is a bad idea as it creates a loop in the Mick Jagger article. It would be better to delete the page then. RodC 23:04, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: More content

message: In my effort to merge the now-deleted list from the article Gay icon to the Gay icons category, I have added this page to the category. I engaged in this effort as a "human script", adding everyone from the list to the category, bypassing the fact-checking stage.
That is what I am relying on you to do. Please check the article Gay icon and make a judgment as to whether this person or group fits the category. By distributing this task from the regular editors of one article to the regular editors of several articles, I believe that the task of fact-checking this information can be expedited. Thank you very much. Philwelch 20:56, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gay Icon Project 

message: She is of Portuguese, Italian, Spanish and Aztec descent. Her ethnicity is not only Portuguese. And she is born 1950 not 1945. In one interview heard I that she is born 1950. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.252.42.205 (talk) 17:47, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Bill Wyman says in his autobiography "Stone Alone" that Bianca was born in 1945!! Mick Jagger biographer Christopher Andersen also says 1945. jeanne (talk) 14:01, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Ethnicity

message: I quote this here.  It is the official biography of the subject of this article, offered to me with an interest
in helping us improve the article:
 
Bianca Jagger is an International renowned Human rights advocated; she is the Council of Europe Goodwill Ambassador and Chair of the World Future Council? For approximately 25 years, Bianca Jagger, has campaigned for human rights, social and economic justice and environmental protection throughout the world.
 
Bianca Perez-Mora Macias was born in Managua Nicaragua in 1950, as a teenager, Ms Jagger observed the terror Somoza’s National Guard inflicted on the civilian population. She felt powerless since all she could do was participate in student demonstrations to protest against their massacres. From a young age she witnessed what John F Kennedy defined as the harshest “common enemies of man: tyranny, poverty, disease and war”. In the mid-sixties she left her native country armed with a French Government scholarship to study Political Science in Paris. 
 
In 1971, she married Mick Jagger. A year later she returned to Nicaragua to look for her parents after a devastating earthquake, which destroyed Managua, the capital, leaving a toll of more than 10,000 deaths and tens of thousands homeless. Although the country received millions of dollars of relief aid from the international community- including 60 million dollars from the US government - thousands were left without medical assistance, food or shelter. Instead, the funds ended up in President Anastasio Somoza’s private bank accounts. It was this ruthless act of pillage that eventually fuelled the Sandinista Revolution.
 
1979 was the year of her divorce. It coincided with the fall of Somoza. The Sandinistas succeeded in ousting the tyrant. Ms Jagger joined forces with the British Red Cross to raise funds for the victims of the conflict and flew to Nicaragua to join the International Red Cross and help on the ground.
 
Two years later, in 1981, Ms Jagger travelled to Central America, as part of a US Congressional fact-finding mission to visit Colomoncagua, a UN refugee camp in Honduran territory. During her visit an armed death squad marched across the border from El Salvador, entered the camp and rounded up about 40 refugees. They tied their thumbs behind their backs and proceeded to take them across the border to El Salvador, with the Honduran army’s blessing. Ms Jagger, the delegation, as well as the relief workers and the captives’ families decided to chase after them. They ran along a dry river bed for about half an hour, armed only with cameras, they took photographs during the chase. They all feared that the death squads were going to kill the refugees once they arrived in Salvadorian territory. Finally, they came within earshot; the death squad turned around, pointing their M-16's at them. They began to shout “you will have to kill us all” and “we will denounce your crime to the world". There was a long silence. Then, the death squads talked among themselves and without explanation, they turned around leaving the refugees behind. The refugees were released, unharmed. 
                                    
This suspended moment in time was a turning point in Ms Jagger’s life. She realised the importance of being a witness when innocent people’s lives are at stake and how a small act of courage can save them and make a difference.
 
Upon her return to the US, Ms Jagger testified before The Congressional Subcommittee on Inter American Affairs, to bring attention to the atrocities committed by the Salvadoran government and its paramilitary forces with the complicity of the Honduran Government. 
 
During the eighties, Ms Jagger began her long association with several international human rights organisations, most notably with Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and the Washington Office for Latin America. She was awarded an honorary Humanities Degree by Stone Hill College, Massachusetts, in 1983 for her work on behalf of human rights in Latin America.
 
In the nineties, as part of her continuing human rights and environmental efforts, Ms. Jagger began her campaign on behalf of indigenous populations in Latin America, and her commitment to help save the tropical rain forests of the Western Hemisphere. Her efforts brought her to Nicaragua, Honduras, and Brazil. In 1991 her efforts proved instrumental in stopping a logging concession which would have endangered the Miskito Indians’ habitat on the Atlantic coast of Nicaragua. A few years later Ms Jagger petitioned the Brazilian Federation Courts to demarcate and protect the lands of the Guarani peoples of Brazil, and in 1994, participated in a similar effort to protect the Yanomami people of Northern Brazil from invasions of their lands by gold miners who polluted the water, causing many deaths among this ancient tribe. The Yanomami are often threatened by rich and unscrupulous land-owners who covet their land.   In recognition for her efforts, she was presented the 1994 United Nations Earth Day International award.  And in 1997, she was the recipient of the Green Globe award by the Rain Forest Alliance, “for her extraordinary conservation efforts and achievements over the past ten years”. 
 
In 1993, Ms. Jagger travel to the former Yugoslavia to document the mass rape of Bosnian women by Serbian forces as part of a campaign of ethnic cleansing. In July 1995, the United Nations “safe area” of Srebrenica in Bosnia was overrun by Bosnian Serb troops. Some 8,000 civilians, virtually the entire male population, were systematically massacred. Since then, Ms. Jagger has been speaking on behalf of the survivors. For many years she campaigned to stop the genocide taking place in Bosnia and later to make the perpetrators accountable before the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY). She has testified on this issue before the Helsinki Commission on Human Rights, the United States Congressional Human Rights Caucus, the International Operations Subcommittee on Human Rights, and the British and European Parliaments.  From 1993 to 1996, she evacuated 22 children out of Bosnia to receive medical care in the United States. She personally evacuated two gravely ill children, Sabina and Mohamed. Sadly Sabina did not survive the evacuation trip and died in Croatia. Mohamed underwent a successful heart operation in New York; he lived with Ms Jagger in the US for a year and then went back to Bosnia to be with his parents. She wrote a decisive essay J’accuse: the Betrayal of Srebrenica, a detailed account of the massacre of Srebrenica, which was published world-wide, among others by: The European, in the United Kingdom, Courier International and Juriste International in France and Panorama, in Italy.
 
In July 1998, Ms Jagger travel to Kosovo with a BBC crew from the program Newsnight. Their aim was to record war crimes perpetrated against the ethnic Albanians, or ‘Kosovars’, who lived in the province and constituted 90% of its population. Repression was the Kosovars daily reality at the time of Ms Jagger’s visit. Serbian military and paramilitary troops had been systematically uprooted them, destroying over 300 towns and villages in their wake.  Over 2,500 ethnic Albanians were killed.  Thousands had disappeared.  Houses had been burned down and buildings had been gutted by fire, crops destroyed, livestock slaughtered. Serbs had systematically raped Kosovars women.  Old people and children had been massacred. 
 
Ms Jagger reported for Newsnight on a pattern of “apartheid” reminiscent of the darkest days of the war she had witnessed in Bosnia-Herzegovina: Serbian and Yugoslav security forces separating men from women and children throughout the province, just as they had done in Srebrenica. Most international organizations and foreign NGOs were withdrawing their staff for “security reasons”.  
 
Ms Jagger went on to decry the plight of the Kosovars through several articles and lectures; she spoke at the House of Commons in the UK and the European Parliament.
 
She campaigned for the indictment and arrest of President Milosevic and continues to urge the arrest of General Mladic and Radovan Karadzic. 
 
Her work on behalf of the countless victims of conflicts throughout the world, and her campaign to evacuate 22 terminally ill children from Bosnia, earned her several awards, among them Amnesty International/USA Media Spotlight Award for leadership “in recognition for her work on behalf of human rights around the world, exposing and focusing attention to injustice”.
 
In the mid-nineties, Ms Jagger began campaigning against the Death Penalty. 
 
In 1996, Ms Jagger filed a clemency petition on behalf of Guinevere Garcia who had been sentenced to death in the state of Illinois, at the request of Amnesty International and the National Coalition to Abolish the Death Penalty. Ms Jagger made a personal plea to Governor Jim Edgar to commute Guinevere Garcia’s death sentence even though she had waived her right to further appeals after the Illinois Supreme Court upheld their verdict. She fought for Guinevere Garcia’s life, because she believed the question was not whether her wish should be granted, but whether the state of Illinois was justified in carrying out her execution. Guinevere Garcia’s decision to accept her execution was entirely consistent with a pathology born from mental disorder and from physical and sexual abuse. Guinevere Garcia’s execution would have constituted nothing less than an act of state sponsored homicide. Ms Jagger’s petition called for an act of executive mercy. She gave countless speeches and interviews on the case, using her voice to speak on behalf of Guinevere Garcia. She filed a clemency petition before Governor Edgar and testified before the Penitentiary Review Board. A few hours before the scheduled execution, Governor Edgar announced that he had commuted Guinevere Garcia’s sentence to life imprisonment. Guinevere Garcia “thanked God” and her attorney stated “you could tell that a weight had been lifted from her shoulders”.
 
On 29 June 1996, Bianca Jagger was made recipient of the “Abolitionist of the Year Award” by the National Coalition to Abolish the Death Penalty for “her tireless efforts and heroic dedication in achieving clemency for Guinevere Garcia”.
 
Since then, Ms Jagger has campaigned on behalf of many capital punishment cases and she continues to campaign against the death penalty throughout the world. 
 
In 1998, she fought in vain for the clemency of Sean Sellers and Karla Faye Tucker. Sean was the first person in forty years to be executed for a crime committed at age 16. Ms Jagger continues to urge for the US Government to shift its focus away from execution to “the prevention and treatment of sexual, physical and emotional abuse of children, in order to prevent them from succumbing to a life of crime”. 
 
Karla Fay Tucker’s childhood had been one of abuse and forced prostitution. Karla never denied the atrocity of her crime. When Ms Jagger met her she was 38 and had spent 14 years behind bars. She was no longer the woman who had been sentenced to death in 1984; during her time in prison she underwent a remarkable transformation. She educated herself, became deeply religious and began ministering to others. Karla Fay Tucker was fully rehabilitated. She worked assiduously on the Scare-straight programme to help adolescent drug abusers.  She no longer posed a threat to society. All appeals failed: Governor George Bush refused to grant clemency to Karla Fay Tucker and she was executed on 3 February 1998.
 
In light of these cases, Ms Jagger continues to this day to denounce the lack of meaningful appellate review in commutation proceedings. She continues to denounce the defendants’ poor access to executive clemency and the State’s lack of recognition for the defendant’s capacity for change, rehabilitation and remorse.  
 
In June 2000, Ms Jagger travelled to Texas to meet with Gary Graham and plead on his behalf with Governor George W Bush. Gary Graham was 17, a minor when he was sentenced to death. He spent 19 years on Death Row for a crime he time and again denied to have committed. He was sentenced to die based on a sole eyewitness testimony. Evidence, subsequently uncovered, calls into serious question this witness identification. Six other witnesses signed affidavits stating that the killer was not Gary Graham. He could have been saved by The State Board of Pardons and Parole and yet they denied clemency. Gary Graham was executed on 22 June 2000. In his final words he proclaimed his innocence and the injustice of his sentence, “I am an innocent black man that is being murdered”, and “It is lynching what is taking place in America tonight”. 
In November of that same year, Ms Jagger received a Champion of Justice Award for this very work, as a “steadfast and eloquent advocate for the elimination of the death penalty in America”. Her articles, lectures and press conferences on the subject continue to challenge a penal system that is unfair, arbitrary and capricious, and jurisprudence fraught with racial discrimination and judicial bias.
 
Ms Jagger has also been a strong advocate for Arms Control and Gun Control campaigns. She is committed to supporting women’s rights in the face of prejudice and domestic violence.  Her work with former Manhattan Borough President Ruth Messinger was instrumental in establishing Iris House -- the East Harlem facility dedicated to providing health and social services to women, which has been a critical component of New York’s response to the AIDS crisis.
  
In May 2001 Ms Jagger travelled to Zambia, under the auspices of Christian Aid to document the devastating tragedy that has left more than 12 million children orphaned by the AIDS epidemic in the Sub-Sahara region. She launched Christian Aid’s report on the effect of HIV-AIDS in Africa, urging industrialised nations to fulfil the pledge they had made 30 years ago to donate 0.7% of their Gross National Product to the developing world. “Unless the Industrialized nations come to their rescue, HIV-AIDS will decimate the African Continent”
 
Bianca Jagger was in New York on September 11th, 2001. Three days after the terrorist attacks, she visited Ground Zero and paid public tribute to the firemen, policemen and rescue teams who had worked 24/7 to find life amid the rubble. She decried the attacks as crimes against humanity. She cautioned against revenge rather than justice and urged President Bush to act in accordance to International Law. She called for a justice fought not in the killing fields of Afghanistan, but in front of an International Court of Justice 
In March 2002, Ms Jagger travelled to Afghanistan with a delegation of fourteen women, organised by Global Exchange to support afghan women’s projects.  
 
That same year, In December 2002 Ms Jagger travelled to India on a Christian Aid mission to shed some light on HIV/AIDS situation and on the trafficking of children and child prostitution. She visited grassroots organisations in Delhi and Calcutta where she learned about their programmes to prevent the spread of HIV/AIDS and care for those infected, she spoke to many women and children in the Red Light area for whom safe sex is simply not an option. In Delhi, she met the voluntary Health Association of India, which works with the Indian Government to develop policy on HIV/AIDS. In Calcutta she visited Sanlaap, where she met children who had been trafficked and forced to become sex workers. At Sanlaap Ms Jagger heard first hand of the stigma faced by people - even children - infected by HIV/AIDS. She visited a shelter called Sneha which means “affection” set up by the organisation for children who have been rescued from trafficking. She met 48 girls from ages 10 to 18 who had been rescued by the police. At the shelter the girls were living together, learning skills to equip them to earn a living away from the red light districts.  
Children who are rescued have to undergo a mandatory HIV/AIDS test, 28 of the 48 girls were already infected with the virus.  During her visit Ms Jagger listen to horrific stories some of the girls live through in the brothels, stories of unspeakable abuse, cruelty and betrayal. One of the girls was visibly upset and after much hesitation she describes how men who looked sick, emaciated and often covered in with scabs would come to solicit their services at the brothel. Today in many countries throughout the world, many believe in the absurd myth that HIV/AIDS can be cured by having sex with a virgin. One of the girls was sobbing inconsolably when she described how the children would beg the madam not to have to sleep with these men, because they believed that they would contract HIV/AIDS, however, the madam wouldn’t hear their pleads and if they refused, they would be abused, beaten and burned with cigarettes. She was talking about herself but she didn’t dare to say it, because she would have had to admit that she had contracted HIV/AIDS. If any of the girls succeeded in escaping and went to the police to seek protection, they were likely to be returned to the brothel by an officer bribed by the madam, and if they returned to their villages their fathers would refuse to take them back. 
Ms Jagger believes that many ways governments are failing to address the real 'terror' which millions of girls and women face every day.
 
In January 2003, Ms Jagger travelled on a fact finding mission to Iraq with a delegation of 32 academics from 28 US Universities, She has been one of the leading voices of the movement against the war in Iraq and was a keynote speaker at the anti-war demonstration 15 February 2003 in Hyde Park, the march was the largest political gathering in British history, it was attended by approximately 1,500,000 people.
Ms Jagger is deeply concerned by the erosion of civil liberties and human rights in the US, the UK and many other nations where Anti-Terror legislation would allow for indefinite detentions without trial and where judges would be excluded from the legal process. 
 
She has denounced Mr George W. Bush’s administration development of a parallel justice system, circumventing decree by decree the oversight of Congress and the Courts. The Secret Military Commissions which will allow a death sentence without right to appeal. Such proceedings, she has decried, “violate the fundamental rights guaranteed under US Constitution” and “any curtailment, suspension or elimination of the constitutional liberties weaken rather than strengthen the war on terror”. 
Ms Jagger is a staunch supporter of the International Criminal Court of Justice and the upholding of the rules of the Geneva Convention with regards to the treatment of prisoners. She has participated in numerous television and radio debates related to the war on terrorism, its victims and its future: most notably on BBC’s QuestionTime, Panorama and CNN’s Crossfire. The Bar Human Rights Committee for England and Wales made her their 2001 keynote lecturer at St Paul’s Cathedral, where her speech on the subject of Justice vs. Revenge was widely acclaimed by the media and public alike. 
 
On 16 December 2003 Bianca Jagger was appointed Council of Europe’s Goodwill Ambassador “For the Fight against the Death Penalty”
On 9 December 2004 Bianca Jagger received the Right Livelihood Award, known as the Alternative Nobel Prize for her "Long-standing commitment and dedicated campaigning over a wide range of issues of human rights, social justice and environmental protection, including the abolition of the death penalty, the prevention of child abuse, the rights of indigenous peoples to the environment that supports them and the prevention and healing of armed conflicts."   
Bianca Jagger, is member of the Executive Director’s Leadership Council for Amnesty International USA, member of the Advisory Committee of Human Rights Watch-America.  Ms. Jagger also serves on the Advisory Board of the Coalition for International Justice. She is a member of the Twentieth Century Task Force to Apprehend War Criminals; a Board member of People for the American Way and the Creative Coalition.
Bianca Jagger performed in various films and Televisions productions: 
“The Rutles” 1978  Starring, Eric Idle,  HYPERLINK "http://movies2.nytimes.com/gst/movies/filmography.html?p_id=95464" Neil Innes,  HYPERLINK "http://movies2.nytimes.com/gst/movies/filmography.html?p_id=95775" Mick Jagger,  HYPERLINK "http://movies2.nytimes.com/gst/movies/filmography.html?p_id=111574" Paul Simon,  HYPERLINK "http://movies2.nytimes.com/gst/movies/filmography.html?p_id=77347" Ron Wood. Directed by  HYPERLINK "http://movies2.nytimes.com/gst/movies/filmography.html?p_id=95365" Eric Idle and  HYPERLINK "http://movies2.nytimes.com/gst/movies/filmography.html?p_id=116298" Gary Weis. (NR, 70 minutes). A parody documentary of a Beatles-like singing group called the Rutles, Charts the adventures of the prefab four, possibly the most famous band of all time. The Rutles was collaboration between Monty Python alumnus Eric Idle and Saturday Night Live filmmaker Gary Weis. 
 “Couleur Chair” known as “Flesh Colour” 1978 Starring Dennis Hopper,  HYPERLINK "http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0856187/" Laurent Terzieff,  HYPERLINK "http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0902610/" Veruschka von Lehndorff
“The American Success”, 1980 Starring Jeff Bridges, Ned Beatty and John Glover, directed by William Richert,
“Cannon Ball Run” 1981 Starring Bert Reynolds, Roger Moore, Farrah Faucett, directed by  HYPERLINK "http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0624102/" Hal Needham, it is an action, adventure, comedy and more 
Tagline: You'll root for them all...but you'll never guess who wins. 
Plot Outline: A wide variety of eccentric competitors participate in a wild and illegal cross-country car race. 
 HYPERLINK "http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086759/" "Miami Vice" 1985 TV episode Free Verse…Carmen, Starring Don Johnson, 
“Street Hawk” 1985 TV episode The Unthinkable…Simone Prevera 
“Hotel” 1986 TV episode Separation…Francesca Delgado
“The Colbys” 1987 TV episode Betrayal…Maya Kumara Starring Charlton Heston,  HYPERLINK "http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001684/" Katharine Ross
 HYPERLINK "http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097001/" C.H.U.D. II - Bud the Chud (1989) ....Velma
“Last Party 2000” 2001 Filmed over the last six months of the 2000 Presidential election, Phillip Seymour Hoffman starts documenting, Rudolf Giuliani, Susan Sarandon, Tim Robbins, Noam Chomsky 
 
Ms Jagger has written articles for the op-ed page of the New York Times(USA), the Washington Post (USA), The Dallas Morning news (USA), the Columbus Dispatcher (USA) the Observer (UK), The Guardian (UK), The Independent (UK), The Mail on Sunday (UK), The Sunday Express (UK) The New Statesman (UK), the European (UK),Liberation (FR), Le Journal du Dimanche (FR), Le Juriste International (FR), Panorama (IT)  to name a few.
:I have begun to source the awards section. --Morenooso (talk) 07:31, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  More possibly useful information 

message: Jagger is described as a member of the Washington Office on Latin America. This is not a membership organization. The group does not currently list her as belonging on the board of directors. Suggest we remove unless further citation is provided. Notmyrealname 19:08, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Member of [[Washington Office on Latin America]]?

message: An Austrian man who found a platinum ring belonging to human-rights activist Bianca Jagger is suing her for not paying him a reward.  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7906642.stm  Are details on this case worth including in the article? 203.211.75.108 (talk) 07:07, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it's a bit early to include that.  If the story grows, then perhaps, but for now I'd rather focus on finding reliable sources for her early life, jet-setting days, and charitable works. - Jredmond (talk) 15:22, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems hardly newsworthy to me. People lose stuff all the time. It almost reads as if the finder is trying to extort money from her in hopes of a settlement based upon a defamation lawsuit. Recommend the maintenance tag be removed. --Morenooso (talk) 09:50, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

text: Tag removed. Trivial and not needed for comprehension of this subject. --Morenooso (talk) 14:46, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lawsuit 

message: I just reverted an edit I made which was intended to move the reference to Gandhi from the Bio to the Activism section, where it belongs. But then, in checking the reference, I found that the "source", netglimse.com, is mirroring the WP article. While I have another source to replace it, I hestitate to do so, since so much else needs to be done:
*Jagger's birth year was listed as 1950, which was clearly incorrect, so I changed it to 1945 (she's almost two years younger than Mick Jagger, who was born in July 1943). Other than imdb.com, however, I haven't found any reliable sources that give a precise date.
*Her early background, as written here, is sketchy at best, and so too is the transition she made from jet setter to international activist. Both of these formative periods need to be filled in because they have so much to say about who she was and who she eventually became.
*Her career as an activist is highly notable, but the current material is little more than a string of dates and events. All of this needs to be tied together in a narrative, rather than a list that jumps from one cause or honor to another.
The problem in sorting out Jagger's bio is that for all her many causes over the past 20 years, relatively little has been written about her personally. Much of what is available on the internet is a reflection of her own attempts to overcome her previous image, and I sympathize with that. But when the main source on a subject is the subject itself, the job of telling the story and "getting it right" becomes all the more difficult. Allreet (talk) 06:14, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Challenges in improving the article 

message: The addition of verifiable links is being blocked as to Ms. Bianca Jagger's activities, Why? : http://www.350.org/messengers#bianca , http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bianca-jagger/yes-we-can_b_181542.html , http://www.fokus.se/2008/06/bianca-jagger-den-oklippta-intervjun/ , ... just to name a few hot off Google Search for "Bianca Jagger 350".
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/350_(organisation)   350 (organisation)
See climate change denial, for a "The Nixon Interviews style" read see excellent:    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/hotpolitics/interviews/seitz.html  
http://www.350.org/people/athletes , http://www.350.org/riders  new, 
http://www.350.org/en/messengers , http://www.350.org/people  99.39.184.88 (talk) 22:06, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Why?  Because it's not notable, and only the last (at fokus.se) seems reliable with respect to Ms. Jagger.  — Arthur Rubin  (talk) 23:55, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Fokus.se  99.181.135.85 (talk) 09:06, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference to activties called "spam", why? 

message: I can't-am overloaded; but this article makes Bianca Jagger's life story that of having married Mick Jagger and then becoming a party girl/Saint. Please, some balance and perspective. She had to grow up somewhere, right? Maybe do other things that weren't related to the Stones or Politics? Cause that's all I see here thus far. Please help the article.--Leahtwosaints (talk) 22:13, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help the article 

message: In order to source the awards section as suggested by another editor, I have placed an Underconstruction tag on the article. I have found several useful citations that from URL's whose sites have articles here on Wikipedi. After my initial post, I will add one or two at a time and try to use distinct URLs. --Morenooso (talk) 07:35, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The awards section is now sourced. The maintenance tag was removed. --Morenooso (talk) 09:08, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Underconstruction tag added: 2010-04-28

message: In this DIFF, cited material from two independent sources was reverted without an edit summary. The cited material was documented in the section above this called New section added 2010-05-01 concerning an event related to Jimbo Wales. Another editor should look at this revert. Morenooso (talk) 16:13, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow, it's worse than I thought. Arthur Rubin deleted not only the new section but also 14 citations I provided for Jagger's various awards. --Morenooso (talk) 16:15, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I reverted myself.  However, in regard the #Epiphany section, the reliable sources are quoting Bianca's recollections of the events, and make it clear they are doing so.  It either needs to be put as entirely her viewpoint, or reliably sourced to someone else who was there.  — Arthur Rubin  (talk) 16:48, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It's probably part of a US Congressional record as she reported the incident upon her return. The new section comes from two different UK newspapers that have no relation to the subject.--Morenooso (talk) 16:51, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: No, the UK newspapers don't have a relation to the subject, but they make it clear that they are quoting her, both about the event (for which there should be independent verification somewhere), and for her reaction.  — Arthur Rubin  (talk) 16:53, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

text: Disagree strongly. The BBC News is mostly a report. Yes, it might have been given as an interview but the paper has editorial oversight. That another UK paper picked up on it a year later provides an independent third source. That both covered an event more than 10 years prior (12 in the BBC News case; 13 in the UK Independent) makes this remarkable. --Morenooso (talk) 16:59, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Furthermore, since the incident happened at a UN camp, some report most likely went there as well. --Morenooso (talk) 17:00, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

text: Thanks, I placed two more possible citations above as the 1981 death squad incident is now getting ghits. --Morenooso (talk) 18:18, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Concur with Jimbo.  That's an excellent solution, pending further independent verification.  — Arthur Rubin  (talk) 07:48, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

text: (to Morenooso):  Please check to see whether those ghits are Wikipedia echos.  It does  happen, you know.  — Arthur Rubin  (talk) 07:48, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't appear to be so as the section is new. I must have done so many variants of yhits that other reliable sources are now coming to light. Nothing is mirroring that new section. --Morenooso (talk) 12:34, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: One good test of mirroring is that when a search engine picks up a section, it will find it in all parts of Wikipedia. Yahoo and Google have not yet indexed/found that section or my userspace area where the section exists in its final post as seen by this userspaceDIFF and picked up by mirrors like answer dotcom and absoluteastronomy dotcom. The new section was built first in my userspace and copied over to the article. Search engines will pick content of userpages. --Morenooso (talk) 12:38, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

text: Yhits now find the search term, Bianca Jagger+death squad, to this article and my userspace where a the actual paragraph was developed. None of the more common mirrors have yet picked-up or mirrored that change in their Wikipedia copies. I would expect them to start mirroring the change within the week. --Morenooso (talk) 01:20, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Unexplained revert of cited material 2010-05-01

message: I just performed the search, Bianca Jagger+death squad, and it yielded another from The Independent which is an Irish newspaper. In another section on this talkpage where I documented the lengths I went to reliable sourced citations that were not circular, I found one that is listed in this TheIndependentDIFF posted May 1, 2010. Now appearing as a subsearch find yhit is this new The Independent article:
* BIANCA OF THE SORROWS by: JOHN CARLIN date: Sunday, 20 August 1995 Retrieved: May 2, 2010
This interview, which was not indexed yesterday, documents the 1981 incident on or before August 20, 1995 (almost 10 years prior to the first cites used) and mentions Jagger's 1981 death squad experience. As per Jimbo's observation, to attempt to write this off as an interview, recollection, "she claimed in an interview" would not wash. It corrobates what Jimbo posted above and supports directly the two citations used in the article. That another newspaper with editorial oversight published this ephinany 14 years after the incident and before the other citations used, is a new Yhit. --Morenooso (talk) 13:22, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Answer dot com just started mirroring Wikipedia. However, they misspelled ephiphany. I wonder where they got that error from? Giggle, giggle. Please see Bianca Jagger www.answers.com Retrieved: 2010-05-04. Morenooso (talk) 21:45, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: New Yhit citations for this article verifying search

message: A number of maintenance tags no longer apply to this article. The lawsuit tag is a great example - it does not have legs and is not necessary for comprehension of the subject matter. Should the suit ever go to court and something "major" be found in reliable sources, add details in an appropriate location. 
BLP Sources tag - This article had 19 citations prior to my editting. For its lenth, 19 is WP:BOMBARD if this article was up for WP:AFD. Any of the 18 additonal ones I provided can be used to provide reliable sources. 19 is carpet bombing in the classic B-52D conventional-bombing ground interdiction parlance. 37 is post-MAD theory with Brigadier General Jack D. Ripper coming back for an encore of refs. As per Jimbo's observation, I don't see anything in her article that is "highly doubtful" or that "she claimed" type material. If there is something that needs a citation, please use the  template.
Bare URLs - I think I fixed the majority of those on my first visit. Several employ the "basic citation method", which some editors will use in putting in the basic website URL. If an editor sees such a post, IMPROVE IT and move on. Please don't slap tag unless you're willing to improve the article on a subsequent visit.
Ephinany section - I will add the other reliable sources found to the appropriate places in that section. Again, as per Jimbo's observation this tag is no longer needed. The Tone tag will be removed in one month if no editor steps forward to "copyedit" or change the tone. IMHO, the tone reflected what was present in the cited material. Improve it or move along. --Morenooso (talk) 13:03, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Cleanup of tags will now commence. --Morenooso (talk) 14:42, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Cleanup of tone tag accomplishment. No good faith edits were made. ----moreno oso (talk) 18:39, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Maintenance tag cleanup 2010-05-04

message: As per the discussion in other sections here on this talkpage, additional citations were introduced into this section. Its maintenance tag was also removed as per those sections. --Morenooso (talk) 15:28, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Ephinancy section additonal citations provided: 2010-05-04

message: The name "Morena" has been added again to this article - after having been removed at some time in the past.  It should stay removed - it is false, perhaps vandalism.  If there are reliable sources which mention it, they should be carefully checked for date of authorship and what Wikipedia said at the time - Ms. Jagger believes that the error originated with Wikipedia.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 16:45, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, Mick Jagger article is constantly being violated also, as well as their children. This has got to end! Best, --Discographer (talk) 20:59, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree.  She has some other suggestions for improvements to the entry, and I'll either work on them myself tomorrow if I have time or pass it along to OTRS.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 21:05, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The Rolling Stones article might need the same, too, please. Best, --Discographer (talk) 21:11, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

text: Because the "Morena" name came back again, and this is an ongoing issue, I'm going to put this article under Pending Changes.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 12:26, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Full name 

message: Being WP:BOLD, the infobox did not look right without a wikilink to human rights. Advocacy was a natural pipe for advocate. Afterwards, looking at the box, something was off and I decided it needed cleanup. Please note: "The" is used because in the wikilinked dropping knowledge article, the round table discussion reads, "The Table of Free Voices" (my emphasis). ----moreno oso (talk) 12:12, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Additonally, I'd recommend removing the citations from the infobox as those facts are established as of this dated posting (I know somebody said, "get over it" - must be me). The citations clutter the infobox and do not enhance what is being presented. I'll leave this to another editor to make a change. ----moreno oso (talk) 12:18, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Infobox change

message: In trying to describe or title the section about the death squad experience, I searched my soul, which is wikilinked to a song from which that line is sung, I'd like to comment about how I came up with the title for this section. The word, transformation, kind of bugged me too. As I was drafting the section with its citations, I kept searching/thinking, "What can I use as a synonym?" MOS says not to use words within the section as the reader should be pleasantly surprised by not being overly POV'ed as to what will be encountered. About this time, an Allstate Insurance commercial came on with Dennis Haysbert booming on about in essence what an epiphany is. It was as if Robin Hood's Kevin Costner shot me between the eyes from a 100 meters. 
I'd recommend that Jagger's statement, (this was) "a turning point in my life" be wikilinked to Ephiphany (feeling). In fact, since I'm feeling my oats, I just might make the change. The unrecorded or nonstated transformation was an ephiphany for Jagger. She may have not realized it at the time - maybe she did but I don't know that which is why I used the words, and the transformation was not easy for Jagger initially, because one of the reporters used words to that effect. I now see how a lot of this may have not been as clear for other readers because I saw and read all the URLs thoroughly to distillate the essence of the encounter. Maybe the tone is still off with the use of the words, "shouted" "armed with nothing but cameras" "you will have to kill us all", but those are all directly quoted which is why citations appear in the midst of statements. I didn't come up with "you will have to kill us all" - it was reported and supported by two citations.
Jimbo, I will be explicit here: if you don't like the piped in wikilink change ephiphinany, kindly revert it and I'll sit in my corner and quietly color. I am being kind of facetious, but seriously Jimbo, if someone objects, I heard someone say, "Get over it." ;) ----moreno oso (talk) 13:48, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Another recommended change - wikilinked a statement

message: Are you sure you're entirely correct on this, nothing to go against Bianca's approval on this? I went through and did some minor word changing and correcting, that's all. Awaiting final approval from Jimbo on Epiphany completion. Best, --Discographer (talk) 18:08, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I watched your edits and approve of the changes. Combined with yesterday's copyedit, the section is as good as it gets unless more sources can be found for additional information. ----moreno oso (talk) 18:12, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I have to agree. Best, --Discographer (talk) 18:14, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The only other change I'd recommend would come to this statement: When both groups were within shouting distance of each other, Jagger and the staff shouted. If I remember correctly, shouting appeared twice in one of the URLs but none of the others. I tried to preserve the true verifiable wording. As per a previous section, I firmly believe we now have the latitude to change the first shouting to hearing range or something else having to do with auditory range. I'm been up seven hours watching the Mundial and the next game is starting which means I'm losing comprehension. What do you think about changing the first shouting? ----moreno oso (talk) 18:23, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I've been watching the games too. As long as Bianca is alright with this (which you know she reads this), and if Jimbo has no problems with it, and if nothing here in your wording is absolutely fabricated, then I say do this. You have got to be very certain on all of the wording! If so, then I say okay. Best, --Discographer (talk) 18:37, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Auditory sounds better than hearing. I'm going to make the change and wikilink it. ----moreno oso (talk) 18:42, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: . Best, --Discographer (talk) 18:53, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I couldn't hear you over the big GOL call. ;) ----moreno oso (talk) 18:57, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Cheers! --Discographer (talk) 18:59, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Epiphany

message: Information in this section is apparently not being used in the article, when it probably should be used in place of some info already shown in the article (i.e. Epiphany section). Best, --Discographer (talk) 15:06, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: What information are you talking about? The post on Wales talkpage had info that is not covered in any of the URLs cited. Until it can be found, as per Jimbo's observation, Wikipedia should stick to the facts. ----moreno oso (talk) 15:10, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Moreno, that's your own quote (the very first line of the entire section)! By the way, good research! Best, --Discographer (talk) 15:23, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Instead of starting a new section, it would have been best for continuity to stay in the original section.----moreno oso (talk) 15:31, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Jimbo, this is a great example of the discussion on your talkpage. Jagger's article for the longest time was plagued by editors who could not get over her "perceived previous lifestyle or image". All it took was two or three editors to keep the logjam in place. When I subconsiously heard someone state, "Get over it", the reason why became very easy to discern and break apart piece-by-piece with verifiable citations. If in a nutshell, one or two bad apples can stink up any article, talkpage or even Wikipedia for that matter. ----moreno oso (talk) 13:46, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Re: More possibly useful information

message: If we were to use 1950 as her birth year (which is supported by both Bianca and Jade, but without official sources, so we can't even say that's true), this would only get reverted back to 1945 which has (so they say) "official" sources (though these "official" sources could also very well be "officially" incorrect)! This is not an easy edit to make, unless we can come up with an official source. Best, --Discographer (talk) 15:16, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: That's why I brought up the Foundation information. If a ticket is filled and info changed by them, the Foundation will leave a post on the talkpage.----moreno oso (talk) 15:33, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Birtdates 1945 versus 1950

message: Bianca told me on twitter what her birth name is.  This is a real thorn in her side.  Per the discussions up above, the error is traceable back to (at least) People Magazine in 1979.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 12:33, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have a reliable source for this information? Twitter is not a reliable source. How do we know you're not just making this up? Also, you seem to have protected the article for no apparent reason, in contravention of Wikipedia policy.--Meannews2 (talk) 03:35, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The source is valid.  The protection is valid.  Of course I didn't just make it up, don't be silly.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 21:13, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  New source for her name 

message: Film and Television
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fourth_Revolution:_Energy (2010, a documentary film about renewable energy)
84.119.22.46 (talk) 13:59, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request from 84.119.22.46, 23 January 2011 

message: In 2012, Bianca Jagger became the Ambassador of Plant a Pledge (http://plantapledge.com)a global initiative suported by Airbus and IUCN to restore 150 million hectares (an area almost three times the size of France) of degraded land by 2020.
Fer.sandra1 (talk) 13:45, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Done and thank you for the suggestion. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 09:58, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request on 23 November 2012 

message: There's a change needed, simple issue of punctuation, but it's still nonetheless important for readability.
Bianca later said "My marriage ended on my wedding day".
...should read:
Bianca later said, "My marriage ended on my wedding day."  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.46.210.21 (talk) 12:15, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Done Thank you! Scottyoak2 (talk) 08:13, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Small change needed -- 3/17/13 

message: Bianca has indicated that she has never been a model -- it seems this wikipedia page may have been responsible for a Guardian article reporting otherwise.
:Citation added. Scottyoak2 (talk) 11:14, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: My preliminary research indicates that Ms. Jagger's assertion that she has never been a model may be correct. The original UPI report in the 1979 may be the earliest source of the misinformation. The matter may have been publicly addressed by reliable sources many years ago. If anyone can locate verifiable sources, please join in. Scottyoak2 (talk) 15:54, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The People Magazine article of May 1977 covered the topic of Ms. Jagger's unsuitability for a modeling career. The UPI report of 1979 that indicates that she was a former model, appears to be erroneous, but I haven't been able to verify or refute the data. In any case, the statement is contentious to the subject and has been removed from the article. Regarding the comment that The Guardian may have used this article as its source: This assertion stems from a single comment on Twitter; the published reference to a former modeling career was in 1979 (long before Wikipedia existed). 'nuf said. Scottyoak2 (talk) 22:13, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request on 2 August 2013 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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