Talk:Frank Collin

message: Treybien removed all derivative portrayals from this section leaving only direct biographical sketches.  Maybe there is a consensus to do so but let's discuss.RevelationDirect (talk) 00:01, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Media Portrayal

message: Note I didn't write the text below. I've removed it from the article as it isn't written in the correct tone and would need proper citing also. I haven't seen the documentary so can't add it myself as I don't know if it is accurate, although I have no reason to think it isn't. 
"Note: some of the above cited material is not consistent with the here mentioned documentary "Nazi America". In this film it is stated that the Justice Department intervened in the matter, asking Collin what "he would need to not march in Skokie". His reply was a permit to march in Chicago, which was subsequently granted. The specific reason for this decision is not stated, but the implication was that the Justice Dept. did not wish that the Skokie march take place. A member of a Jewish organization also stated that they were ready to fly in their best 'street people' who could 'handle themselves in any type of situation', the implication here being that the Skokie community was ready to defend itself from Collin's organization, if that's what it came to. This documentary has been aired many times on THC and states the facts in precisely this manner."
Dougweller (talk) 06:58, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  IP's text moved here 

message: This seems to be an interesting case. Is he the only Jewish Nazi?--76.31.238.174 (talk) 05:47, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Frank Joseph has been a Nazi a VERY LONG TIME AGO (35 years!!!) To call him a Nazi today is not only unfair, but barefaced bullshit and sheer ratfucking! Being a dedicated anti-Fascist - who has no reason at all to come to an actual Nazi's defense! - I can tell you: I have carefully read most of Frank's books, and I couldn't find any NS-tendencies, racist or anti-Semitic statements respectively indication of such notions or ideas. The present Wikipedia article is totally missleading (see previous statement!) and a shame. It should be rewritten from scratch! -- 91.9.250.64 (talk) 22:58, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jewish Nazi 

message: It isn't just photostats and the issue arose earlier. See this 1970 UPI story where his father, originally named Max Cohn (the spelling in the report) states that he is Jewish and changed his name to Collin. A slightly later UPI story spells the name Cohen. Dougweller (talk) 13:06, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Father himself stated he was Jewish 

message: As time has moved on I believe that his most used name is now Frank Joseph. See for instance as search on "Frank Joseph" Nazi Atlantis  compared to "Frank Collin" Nazi Atlantis - about 5 times as many hits for Joseph. Remove the word Atlantis and you get about the same, 8000  for Collin, 138,000 for Joseph. It's hard tto do searches as there are of course *other people by the same name. But I think that now he is normally thought of as Frank Joseph (I suspect a lot of people don't even know him under any other name). Dougweller (talk) 13:17, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: oppose. his "work" in the fringe is a pen name i believe and is completely unimpactful and unnoticed. his "work" as Collin in the neo nazi world was nationally (and internationally) known and lead to constitutional precedent setting legal case. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 13:30, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Retitle to 'Frank Joseph' 

message: Jeffrey Kaplan is mentioned in two attributions in the "Downfall" section. An editor changed "Jeffrey Kaplan" to "author Jeffrey Kaplan" here, to provide some explanation of who was being attributed. The change was removed here, with the edit summary "why would we call him an author - if we called him anything we'd use the description in his article, 'academic', but the link is there to let people find out about him". A third editor reverted the reversion, to restore the word "author", with no edit summary. A fourth editor reverted that reversion, to remove the word "author", with the edit summary "Doesn't seem any more descriptive".
It is pretty common practice to provide a short description of a person's job, qualifications, or connection to a piece of writing when they're mentioned. Wikilinking is great, but I think the piece should be written to stand on its own.
To answer the question "why would we call him an author", I'd suggest because he's an author, and because that provides an explanation of why he's being mentioned here, the implication being he wrote about this. If the reference were instead to a recorded classroom lecture, I'd emphasize that he was a professor. I can definitely see mentioning he's a professor/academic as well, but since that alone doesn't explain his relationship to this topic, I think author is a reasonable part of the attribution. Another approach would be to introduce him as a professor or academic, and explicitly attribute the book without explicitly without explicitly describing him as an author, for example "According to professor Jeffrey Kaplan in Radical Religion in America, ..." You could also give an even more detailed description, like "Associate Professor of Religion at the University of Wisconsin–Oshkosh", or add other credentials credentials, but that seems unnecessarily detailed; the shorter versions answer the basic question of why he's being referenced in the article.
To answer the "doesn't seem any more descriptive", my opinion is that "author Jeffrey Kaplan" is more descriptive than "Jeffrey Kaplan", but I guess it's subjective.
Agyle (talk) 16:25, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit war on Kaplan's description 

message: Frank Collin was the inspiration for Henry Gibson's Head Nazi character in the 1980 film The Blues Brothers. 24.13.134.216 (talk) 05:06, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blues Brothers Head Nazi 

message: Frank Joseph is a convicted paedophile. I viewed this entry several years back, and last year. Over time the fact he is a child molester gets removed or censored, it now barely mentioned and confined in a subsection. I can only presume some sort of sick paedo apologists are making these edits. SunkenKingdom (talk) 00:13, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  vile paedo apologists editing the page? 

message: i think it is not honest to use jewish autor like Kaplan as source about somebody who is described as "nazi". everybody knows that Jews don't like nazis , so they can not write objectively about somebody with such political orientation. 
Stories about Collin making some things with children are lies. Somebody ( not Covington ) framed him , put incriminated photos in his desk. This is common thing to slander politician by making some kind of sex offences acusation. If he really did what they claimed he did would he get only 7 years and be released after 3. I think this all story is revenge by ADL for his nazi march trought Skokie. It was fraud used to destroy NSPA.
And there are no proves he is Jew , and in case he is what then. There are milions of Jews in US and nobody make problem about this . Is it illegal to be Jew ? 93.143.24.7 (talk) 22:27, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Your conspiracy theory is going to use some pretty great sources meeting WP:RS. Doug Weller talk 06:54, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  this article is not based on facts 

message: Doug Weller talk 17:53, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Antiquity Magazine article 

message: http://www.muenchen.de/rathaus/gedenkbuch/gedenkbuch.html
The Munich Gedenkbuch entry for Siegfried Cohn (father of Max Simon Cohn) lists Max's birthday as August 23, 1913 (born in Munich). See the birth info for Max Simon below:
''
Cohn, Siegfried (Itzig) Kaufmann Geboren am 09.03.1868 in Waitze, Kr. Birnbaum, Bez. Posen verheiratet
Deportiert am 04.06.1942 nach Theresienstadt Ermordet am 23.03.1943 in Theresienstadt (16. Adar II 5703)
Eltern: Moritz Simon Cohn, Kaufmann und Pauline Cohn, geb. Ury
Geschwister: Gustav, geboren 28.10.1877 Wronki, gestorben 19.01.1942 München, Suizid
Heirat: Heirat am 28.01.1909 in Hannover mit Gertrud Anna Cohn, geb. Hoffmann, geboren am 28.04.1882 in Hannover, gestorben am 27.06.1941 in Heilanstalt Bendorf-Sayn
Kind(er): 
Max Simon, geboren am 23.08.1913 in München 
Ruth, geboren am 03.09.1920 in München
Precis (talk) 21:09, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Birthdate for Frank Collin's father Max Simon Cohn 

message: http://www.tributes.com/obituary/show/Max-F.-Collin-86412910
The link above gives the birth date Aug 23, 1913 (in Munich) and death date as July 4, 2009  (in Olympia Fields, Illinois)
The same birthdate is also given in this record found in familysearch.org:
Max F Collin
United States Public Records, 1970-2009
Name:	Max F Collin
Also Known As:	M Collin
Residence Date:	15 Nov 2007-20 Aug 2008
Residence Place:	Olympia Flds, Illinois, United States
Birth Date:	23 Aug 1913
Address:	Olympia Flds, Illinois 60461
Address Date:	15 Nov 2007-20 Aug 2008
2nd Address:	Lakeville, Minnesota 55044
2nd Address Date:	01 Aug 1995-01 Apr 1998
3rd Address:	Tinley Park, Illinois 60477
3rd Address Date:	01 Apr 1986
Possible Relatives:	Francis J Collin
Record Number:	229190868
Precis (talk) 22:52, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: the problem with all of these is the uncertainty of the link with Frank Collin. Particularly as this is a BLP, we need certainty. If you want confirmation of my opinion, go to WP:RSN and ask others, I certainly don't mind. Doug Weller talk 10:50, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:   References 4 and 5 say that Max Simon Cohn is the father of Frank Collin. Is your uncertainty based on the possibility that the Max Simon Cohn listed in Gedenkbuch might be a different person than the Max Simon Cohn who fathered Frank Collin?   Or am I missing the point?   In short, I'm requesting that, when you have time, please elaborate here on what you mean by "uncertainty of the link with Frank Collin".   Thanks.    Precis (talk) 18:11, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Really you need to ask at WP:RSN where hopefully (summer holidays don't help) you'll get more help. I only care that we get this right. Doug Weller talk 18:15, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the suggestion, but since I don't understand exactly what you think needs to be confirmed,  I wouldn't even know what to ask RSN.  So I won't pursue it further.   Precis (talk) 19:02, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Death date for Frank Collin's father Max Simon Cohn (aka Max Frank Collin) 

message: “He wrote New Age and "hyperdiffusionist" works supporting the pseudoarchaeological idea that Old World peoples had migrated to North America in ancient times and created its complex societies of indigenous peoples. This thesis is rejected by mainstream scholars.”
everything about this passage is wrong, from hyperdiffusionist appearing in quotes without indicating who is quoted to the dubious concept of a “complex” society (vs non complex?) to the unsourced assertion that not only some but all “mainstream scholars” reject the Old World dispersal theory (even cats arrived in Americas from the Old World, twice). A total amusement park ride adventure through ideology, bias and nonsense to try to refute much of the same. Ironic. Wtfisthisshi (talk) 18:06, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: It wasn’t a quotation but I’ve removed the quote marks. All mainstream scholars have rejected it, humans came from Asia as did cats.[] and then later after Columbus. I'm not happy with the wording and sources are indeed needed.. Do you really believe in Atlantis? Doug Weller talk 19:24, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  this needs a rewrite or at least a citation