Talk:Black site

message: New York Times, 25-Jan-2017: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/25/us/politics/cia-detainee-prisons.html  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.6.47.236 (talk) 20:59, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Useful Sources 

message: I think someone misinterpreted the original Washington Post article. I think it said that there were eight countries, in total, where there were covert interrogation sites.
I question the reference to Denmark. The English article on Denmark only says the plane landed there. These planes land all over, including, this week, Iceland and Canada. Let's confine ourselves to the countries where the detainees are interrogated, not merely the countries where planes carrying them land? -- Geo Swan 23:24, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: 8 sites in Europe? Denmark?

message: I put the in-text references in the proper footnote format and used citation templates for all references. However, many of the references do not seem to be reference worthy. Were all of them used in the creation of the text? My bet is that only those listed in the text were and that the others are simply related external links. In fact, I'm going to change them to be such. uriah923(talk) 06:44, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Can I ask what order you put them in? They aren't in alphabetic order, or chronologic order. -- Geo Swan 10:12, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: References

message: The "black sites scandal" related to eastern countries may be an attempt to put pressure on these countries to not allow the USA to open permanent military facilities there. - are there legitimate news sources we can get to confirm that somebody relevant believes this, or has stated it? Sherurcij 11:23, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Original Research?

message: I feel that this article is not obiding by the NPOV policy:
*Pressure placed on Romania and Bulgaria
The "black sites scandal" related to eastern countries may be an attempt to put pressure on these countries to not allow the USA to open permanent military facilities there.
*uummmm.. It might just be me, but does anyone else agree that this does not have very much fact to back it up, and is entirely guessing and speculativeMac Domhnaill
:I agree. Only the controversy section was bad enough for me to change it myself (I am certainly not an expert about this subject). I would be delighted if this article could be greatly reworked by someone neutral and qualified. Vonspringer 01:55, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV 

message: Over at Talk:CIA prison system, we are discussing the merge of these two articles. The Wikipedians commenting so far on the merger believe that the other article's name is the one which should become primary. I figured that Wikipedians with this article on their watchlist might disagree... I encourage you to go over there to make your case for keeping the black site name for the article. Mamawrites 06:58, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  merge under the other article's name? 

message: I've added content from the February-March edition of The Village, so as to give a more globaly-based coverage of the events. Let me know if I put in too much or too little. Fergananim 22:07, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: The Village

message: Should the UK and Germany entries be removed? Do we want to list every suspected overflight or transfer point? There are no claims of detention centers for UK & Germany. See the remark on Denmark above. Acctorp 20:42, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Flights and Transfer Points

message: I started an article about "the dark prison", a black site where eight of the Guantanamo detainees were held, prior to being shipped to Guantanamo.
It wasn't long before someone nominated it for deletion. Since it is related to this article I thought those interested in this article might like to weigh in on the {afd} discussion. -- Geo Swan 13:21, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  "[[the dark prison]]" article -- related to this one -- has been nominated for deletion 

message: I was just curious as to when this term was first coined. All it says is that it's a military term used by intelligence agencies. Does anyone know when this term was first used? i.e. is it an old term or a recent invention? And what incident (or location) was it first used to describe? (Leninbenjamin 16:11, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin of the Term 

message: I noticed while I was looking at this article that there were no refrences to the prisoner abuse that has been occurring at many of these detention centers; I added in a few, but could somebody expand them and cite a few news sources? thanks. 206.15.236.254 17:46, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Torture/abuse??

message: Is it quite appropriate to refer to Mary McCarthy as a "Democratic activist"? While I'm aware of the $7,700 she's donated to Democratic candidates and causes, I don't believe this represents the most relevant portion of her involvement with the "black site" issue. It also ascribes a political motivation to an action that, to date, the individual in question denies having any involvement in. I'd like to propose for consideration that the sentence be amended to read, "On April 21st, 2006, Mary O. McCarthy, a longtime CIA analyst, was fired for allegedly leaking info about black sites to Dana Lewis of the Washington Post."
I feel this more accurately reflects events as they occured. Gpotter511@yahoo.com 19:02, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mary McCarthy 

message: *A presidential directive allows the agency to capture and hold specific classes of suspects without accounting for them to the public, or revealing the conditions they face in the prisons, which have been proven in some cases to include torture and other prisoner abuse .
Two questions:
*What is the proof that these prisoners have been tortured?
*What definition of "torture" is being used here? Testicles crushed, ears cut off as under Saddam? Victims beaten to death as by the Taliban? Or relatively "mild" tactics like stress positions or scaring you with dogs? Or humilitions like making you naked and teasing you about your genitals?
Note that I am not excusing or advocating any of these practices, just asking for a bit of perspective as well as sources. Thank you. --Uncle Ed 02:42, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: All of those seem to fit the definition, yes. I'm not sure anyone who has undergone such experiences would use the word "mild." That there are worse forms of torture does not seem to be a point anyone is arguing.--csloat 04:57, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Torture at gitmo is well-documented too. New info is still coming out. Look for the book Inside the Wire by a former Guantanamo Bay translator. Also, the book The Torture Papers documents quite a lot of the evidence of torture at prisons including Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib.--csloat 19:12, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

text: There is no doubt torture has happenned. This does not mean that an article can't be provided, but the sentence shouldn't be removed (please no American exceptionalism) Tazmaniacs 05:49, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Excuse-me, I haven't even read which part you were alluding to. This is the intro, and there is a source, it is Dick Marty's report, which is sourced in the main-text. Please don't stop reading at the intro. Tazmaniacs 05:51, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Need source for torture claims

message: Someone updated this article to reflect today's admission by President Bush that the USA had been maintaining secret interrogation centres. Someone else changed its wording, so it no longer said he "admitted to", but rather he "recognized" the existence of the secret prisons.
WTF? "Admitted to" is the description on the news up here in Canada. "Recognized" seems like an obfuscating euphemism to me -- and, sorry, expressive of a biased POV.
What, like the President didn't know about the secret sites, until today?
I changed it to say Bush "acknowledged the exiistence".
IMO a neutral point of view doesn't require us to use obfuscatory euphemisms. And, sorry, but the expression "recognized the existence" seems to be expressive of a biased POV to me. -- Geo Swan 02:09, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Recognized" seems like an obfuscating euphemism to me 

message: Why is Afghanistan listed under the Middle East? Afghanistan is in central Asia. Hildenja (talk) 18:16, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Suspected Sites/Afghanistan

message: This article confirms Bucharest, Romania, Morocco, and Bangkok as three sites for secret prisons. Cla68 (talk) 00:25, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  New NYTimes article 

message: In my user space I have a draft of User:Geo Swan/Guantanamo/CIA medical experiments.
The existing article on Project MKULTRA is quite long. I think that project was longer, more formal, and more extensively funded than any more recent experimentation. So, is an article on "CIA medical experimentation" that cover both a good idea?
Some might suggest that this be merged into Project MKULTRA. But I question whether it was a good idea, because of key differences between the two efforts. There is a big gap in time. There is a big difference between who the subjects were.
Alternatively maybe there should be an article on something like: Assertions of medical misconduct in the war on terror.
I welcome other's opinions.
Cheers! Geo Swan (talk) 01:33, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  your opinions please... 

message: *ABC News - EXCLUSIVE: CIA Secret 'Torture' Prison Found at Fancy Horseback Riding Academy
*Fox News - Report: CIA 'Black Site' Found in Lithuania
--Oakshade (talk) 16:07, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Lithuanian "Black Site" found. 

message: *AP Exclusive: Terror suspects held weeks in secret (?)secret prison for detainees, but not a black site according to AP(?) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.77.99.53 (talk) 00:47, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Afghanistan 

message: This article is in relation to black sites, however, it has been hijacked to discuss only rendition. Black sites are used for a wide variety of studies and illegal activity.
I would suggest that all material relating to rendition be removed and added to an article on that topic. Only a note should remain that rendition locations are an example of a black site. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.146.83.201 (talk) 18:53, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Article Cleanup Request

message: obama's order to close "black sites" notwithstanding, many people claim that black sites continue to exist as the black budget has continued to balloon under obama, rendition remains approved, and more and more legal matters pertaining to "black sites" are seeing the government err on the side of classification rather than disclosure. deserves a mention here. i'll dig up citations -- a cursory google search of "obama black sites continue" or "obama black sites exception" is revealing in this regard. 184.74.182.190 (talk) 18:17, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Here's an good article on the US using other nations' facilities as "proxy prisons" outside the law:  MakeBelieveMonster (talk) 14:07, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  section on obama gives bho too much credit 

message: I've purged this article of a long list of misc. news coverage it's collected in its external links section. Per the guidelines on external links, we want to avoid "any site that does not provide a unique resource beyond what the article would contain if it became a featured article"; most of these brief NYT and BBC articles don't seem to me to meet that mark. If others disagree, however, feel free to restore some of them. -- Khazar2 (talk) 01:52, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  removing list of external links 

message: The notice asking for more up to date information on this topic is dated December 2011 which would indicate that the information was out of date then and has not been updated since them to an amount sufficient to warrant the removal of this notice.
If this situation is not resolved I would like an administrator to archive this article to a history project so that they can incorporate its info into an article on the history of the war on terror.
123.211.90.147 (talk) 04:15, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: No argument seems to have been presented on the talk page to explain why "factual accuracy" has been compromised in the article, so I am removing the tag because it was inserted without justification. Information and sources do not automatically become void because they were published 5 or 10 years ago. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 16:35, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dreadfully out of date information. 

message: Iran is marked red on the map, while Iraq is not. Looks like a mistake. --81.190.209.91 (talk) 00:32, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Iran? 

message: The Chicago/ Homan Square site does not really fit here. Neither citation calls it a CIA site, just that it has some similarities. The rest of the this page focuses on CIA black sites while this is operated by the Chicago PD.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:7:880:281:1AD5:31AA:8AA4:C1EB (talk) 02:58, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chicago 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: seems to be overly focused on the CIA detainment sites... my understanding, and the lede, and links.... is that "black sites" encompass alot more, and really, the CIA sites are merely one example of such a black site. -- Aunva6talk - contribs  05:12, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: What other examples, ? The word is mostly used for the US.--Farang Rak Tham  (Talk) 22:37, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: The  "black site" may be US-weighted, but the concept is, unfortunately, not. I have just added a redirect from "Clandestine detention site". Best wishes, Pol098 (talk) 20:34, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  overly exclusive focus 

message: There is no source for the following first sentence, which I have deleted; the source cited to support it was about detention centres, and did not include the word "black" at all: 
In military terminology, a black site is a location at which an unacknowledged black operation or black project is conducted.
Best wishes, Pol098 (talk) 20:25, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not an unacknowledged military site 

message: The Italy section, which I have deleted, is not about a black site even in the less usual sense of a secret military facility. It trains people for clandestine activities, but is not a clandestine centre. Deleted text:
;Italy
The government officially acknowledges the existence of a special training facility close to Alghero in Sardinia, in the vicinity of Capo Marrargiu. The facility was used in the past to train special forces and clandestine operatives for Operation Gladio. The CAG, which stands for Centro addestramento guastatori or Special Forces Training Center is used jointly by the Italian military as well as by the Italian intelligence agencies to train special forces operatives as well as intelligence operators on behalf of the Italian government. Thanks to its secluded position and scarcely populated area, the facility is used also to train special forces operators of other NATO militaries.
Best wishes, Pol098 (talk) 20:30, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Italy section deleted as not a black site