Talk:Java Man

message: * Pithecanthropus erectus → Java Man – The article is about remains of a hominid found in Java, which is, AFAIK, universally called "Java Man".  When it was first found, it was classified as Pithecanthropus erectus; after decades of debate, it is now Homo erectus.  Since the article is about the skeleton, not an obsolete species classification, this should be at Java Man.  Compare Peking Man or Piltdown Man. --Saforrest 07:59, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Moved. - UtherSRG (talk) 16:18, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 

message: Moved from article: So how old is the Java man skulls????? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.44.8.82 (talk • contribs) 
:What are the ages of these specimens?  Badagnani 22:23, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: age of skulls

message: This article needs a huge amount of work, in part because Asian Homo erectus are no longer considered direct human ancestors, and haven't been for quite some time. In particular the second-hand references attributed to Marvin Lubenow, writing a creationist book, should all be confirmed by examining the original sources. I'm also concerned about the quotation attributed to a Time magazine article, ""[Java Man] is a legimate evolutionary ancestor"--just what was in place of the bracketed phrase "Java Man" in the original sentence??? If it said "Homo erectus", then it's not nearly as damning as the person who inserted this sentence thinks. (Edited to add: I'm removing that sentence entirely; the article is online at  and that sentence does not appear anywhere in the article.) MrDarwin 13:47, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Massive rewrite needed

message: I have removed the following para entirely:
Sir Arthur Keith, an anatomist of from Cambridge University, later claimed that the skull cap itself, "[is] distinctly human and reflected a brain capacity well within the range of humans living today",Marvin L. Lubenow, Bones of Contention, page 86-99 thus refuting Eugene Dubois's original claim that "Java man represents a stage in the devolopment of modern man from a smaller-brained ancestor". World Book Encyclopedia, Book 10, 50
... unless a better source for Keith can be found than Lubenow!
82.33.152.5 14:50, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Arthur Keith 

message: Is it really fair to state that it's a specimen of homo erectus, when the discoverer himself later said that it was just an a normal gibbon?
:That is not what Dubois said, not even close; I've edited the sentence in the article to make it clear that such claims are not only misleading but completely false.  Follow the referenced link in the article for more information. MrDarwin 15:23, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fairness

message: This article needs un-edited pictures (like fill ins that somehow prove it), and less "CREATIONIST IS STUPID DURR" that plagues everything that has to do with evolution and creation.
--60.240.118.139 02:11, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Creationism has no place in a legitimate science article because it is not at this point legitimate science, find a source for your claim or shut up --Opcnup (talk) 22:56, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Mr. IP might be confusing the Java Man with the Piltdown Man. FunkMonk (talk) 12:00, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pictures, more neutrality 

message: I dont know if I misunderstood then, if I did sorry then, but on the history of Indonesia it suggests that the Java man came from India here. But here I think it implies that it came from Africa here. 71.105.87.54 (talk) 06:07, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  India then?  

message: Wow this is interesting stuff dude  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.176.182.76 (talk) 13:29, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Man  

message: Merge with Trinil 2? 
Discuss.
Kortoso (talk) 21:52, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge? 

message: Hassan called Indonesian rule over Aceh and other places like East Timor, West Papua and the Moluccas as Javanese domination.
http://books.google.com/books?id=ArvtbBOPwGIC&pg=PT125&dq=tiro+javanese&hl=en&sa=X&ei=F-A1U-3WIqi0sQSw0IGQDw&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=tiro%20javanese&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=T61pQx1w3soC&pg=PA70&dq=In+Hasan+di+Tiro's+terms,+“indonesians”+are+a+“non-existent+human+species”+(di+Tiro+1984a,+68).+In+his+writings,+the+very+idea+of+Indonesia+is+an+absurd+falsehood,+a+thin+façade+covering+Javanese+dominance.+His+“redeclaration+of+independence+”&hl=en&sa=X&ei=c_M1U6T4DMLIsASp-YKQBQ&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA
Tiro engaged in racist rhetoric against Javanese, calling them "barbarians", "stupid", "insolent", relatives of monkeys, and insinuated that they were descended from Pithecanthropus erectus in his play, "The drama of acehnese history 1873-1978"
http://books.google.com/books?id=ArvtbBOPwGIC&pg=PT126#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=T61pQx1w3soC&pg=PA71&dq=At+one+point+he+reminds+his+readers+that+monkeys+were+“a+very+distant+relative+of+the+Javanese,+but+relatives+nevertheless”+(212).+Elsewhere+he+returns+to+the+theme+that+the+Javanese+“have+strong+traces+of+pithecanthropus+erectus+lines”+(+317).&hl=en&sa=X&ei=m_Q1U-aQELPUsAT6nIBw&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA
The drama of acehnese history 1873 1978
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BywGzWY70a8gZjk5NTI3ZTEtMDc3Ni00ZDQ3LWE0NDUtYTQyMTU1OTJhNDll/preview?pli=1
http://en.bookfi.org/book/1320922
http://bookre.org/reader?file=1320922
http://www.acehbooks.org/search/detail/4169?language=ind
http://www.acehbooks.org/pdf/00371.pdf
http://www.scribd.com/doc/89450652
http://www.worldcat.org/title/drama-of-achehnese-history-1873-1978-a-paly-in-viii-acts/oclc/525862312
http://mbox.thejakartapost.com/news/2010/06/04/citizen-hasan-di-tiro-dies-‘dignified-end-conflict’.html
http://books.google.com/books?id=ArvtbBOPwGIC&pg=PT125&lpg=PT125&dq=The+drama+of+acehnese+history+1873+1978&source=bl&ots=swnpl-Xn2l&sig=iYp8SMGsKGXRq3EPqbVDO3pwYeA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=6UBYU-SPOsvMsQSMzoKIBA&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=The%20drama%20of%20acehnese%20history%201873%201978&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=M5SpAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA247&lpg=PA247&dq=The+drama+of+acehnese+history+1873+1978&source=bl&ots=Gh4KRJdxKp&sig=O8TrO3iguBLp5WZLBUT8agNf5vs&hl=en&sa=X&ei=6UBYU-SPOsvMsQSMzoKIBA&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=The%20drama%20of%20acehnese%20history%201873%201978&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=fG_eSAAACAAJ&dq=The+drama+of+acehnese+history+1873+1978&hl=en&sa=X&ei=7EFYU9ygB6TQsQSIroDABA&ved=0CDsQ6AEwAw
http://books.google.com/books?id=Y8UPKFrtjb0C&pg=PA424&lpg=PA424&dq=The+drama+of+acehnese+history+1873+1978&source=bl&ots=uuiectoKuV&sig=h41XSLdPfXerwhZbIVA6bEhmue8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=6UBYU-SPOsvMsQSMzoKIBA&ved=0CDYQ6AEwBg
Rajmaan (talk) 19:19, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hasan di Tiro's writings against Indonesia and Javanese 

message: Might this be something?  -- -- CFCF (talk · contribs · email) 08:02, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you, this looks interesting! Do you know when this photo was first published? This will determine whether it is in the public domain, and therefore whether we can use it on this page. Cheers, Madalibi (talk) 08:22, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  http://collections.stanford.edu/copyrightrenewals/bin/search/simple/process?query=The+hall+of+the+age+of+man gives no hits on the book title, indicating no editions had their copyright renewed, and have thus been in the public domain since 1968. http://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/001632299 gives 4 editions, you can choose the one with the best image and upload it to commons with the  tag. Thanks, -- CFCF (talk · contribs · email) 08:28, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  If it was first published in the United States in 1921, as the "hathitrust.org" entry seems to indicate, then it's in the public domain in the US and we can tag it with  , which applies to older material than . The problem is that without the book in hand to scan it, I have no idea how to upload that picture, because it's not an electronic file. Any idea how to do it? Madalibi (talk) 08:46, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll do it this evening. -- CFCF (talk · contribs · email) 11:28, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  Great, that would be even simpler! Thank you! Madalibi (talk) 12:51, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lede image 

message: A question: is this article devoted narrowly to the Homo erectus fossils found by Eugène Dubois in 1891–92 – the most important of which is Trinil 2 – or more broadly to all the specimens of Homo erectus that have been found on Java Island, including in Sangiran, Mojokerto, and Ngandong, all of which can also be loosely called "Java Man"? Madalibi (talk) 13:15, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scope of the article 

message: I cannot find evidence for a village of Sangiran, Central Java. This site appears to be an excavation site only and not a village. Can someone provide a reference for the community at this location? Kyle(talk) 23:37, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi . You're right! I missed that blunder when I expanded the article, but I've just corrected it. Thanks for pointing it out! Madalibi (talk) 00:07, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hi . Your edit is an improvement. I see no reason for additional clarification, although I will leave a note of my findings. According to this pageThe Sangiran appears to be a dome which has eroded leaving behind at least five distinct layers. Some of these layers are rich in fossil and tool - chip findings. Many years ago it was suggested that a village must have been present to create such tools. The theory of a Sangiran Village has been repeated in many other places although no actual village has been confirmed and it does not appear on the map. Kyle(talk) 00:33, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi again, . The fact that so many human and pre-human fossils and tools have been excavated there shows that it must have been some kind of settlement, though not necessarily a "village". Maybe the site was selected to be close to the raw stones that they used to make the tools? It would be interesting to see what reliable sources have to say about this as we develop the Sangiran page. I have all the books I need at home, so I might turn to it this summer if I have time. Cheers! Madalibi (talk) 00:45, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  village of [[Sangiran]], Central Java