Talk:Modchip

message: "A modified version that allows users to play commercial DVDs from all regions was listed at US$499."
Isn't this contradictory to their stance on CPRM? They go after modchip makers for bypassing CPRM, yet profited from it. Couldn't something like this be raided in a RAID?
: Panasonic/Nintendo would be, naturally, within their rights to produce and sell such an item. The Panasonic Q article you are referring to suggests that this was an officially produced item, which is debatable -- and strikingly unsourced in the article. --Takimata (talk) 06:25, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Panasonic_Q]] 

message: I would like to propose a general cleanup of this page. While I acknowledge the effort some have put into describing the various modchips for the systems, I find the level of detail, especially in the "History" section, counterproductive. Describing technical details of modchips (i.e. the "Qoob" for GameCube) is like describing technical details of car models in the article about cars. I'd rather see the article reformatted and slendered down to make a general statement. And I'd like to know what the consensus would be for such a reformatting. --FreddyTalk 14:56, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Tagged with "examplefarm" today. I hope to draw some attention to this article really needing cleanup to be encyclopedic, because in my opinion it is conflicting with WP:NOT#DIR and WP:NOT#GUIDE. I realize that there are some users contributing what they think is encyclopedic knowledge, but listing specific modchips and how many wires they need most certainly isn't. This article has to get more general. Here's hoping for a discussion on that topic. --FreddyTalk 16:49, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yep, agreed. I should really work on this soon. Chris Cunningham 11:45, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup proposal 

message: Moved outdated discussions and those who target already changed content to a newly created Archive page. --FreddyTalk 15:09, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Talk page archive 

message: This article could really use better formating. The currently it is not divided into sections, and long sections of straight prose are not good for reading. 65.41.54.53
This article could also benefit from mentions of alternatives to chipping, such as boot disks, Gamesharks, cartridge converters, and the like. It also does not mention the Saturn, which has fairly unique protection methods (regional lockout is separate from copy protection; regional lockout can be easily overcome via a cartridge such as ST Key or Action Replay, though to bypass copy protection requires a chip. Only one Saturn chip ever was able to bypass regional lockout.) A brief mention of consoles which do not feature protection would also be a good idea-many cartridge-based systems, the 3DO, and presumably others fall into this category.)
:I didn't ever read this first and I added some stuff on the 3DO, Saturn, PSX, alternate uses (swap, boot, and gameshark), but I'm beginning to think that my saturn additions are innacurate, and that I din't mention enough. I did seperate some of the systems. I don't know why Xbox360 was in with the sixth generation consoles. I think the PSP should be moved as well but I'm too lazy to check. Also all the 'generation' things should be linked to the history of video games. I'll work on some of these things when I can, but help would be appreciated. Aside from that, it's pretty informative as is. --Thaddius 16:46, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I linked and divided all of the generations as I understand them, but I'm willing to admit that I may not know everything there is to know, or I might be misinformed. Maybe someone with a little more knowledge could fix up the pre-fifth, fifth, and seventh-generation sections. --Thaddius 22:53, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup 

message: There is new modchip/programmer called infectus.   Ut's full reprogrammable and can be every thing.  Can be it added like a new generation?  I have big doubts about the correct position where to put it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.72.115.156 (talk) 09:39, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Generation? New modchip?  

message: I would like to object the verbose and abusive use of the term "piracy" in this article, for the reasons stated by the Free Software Foundation:
Publishers often refer to prohibited copying as “piracy.” In this way, they imply that illegal copying is ethically equivalent to attacking ships on the high seas, kidnapping and murdering the people on them. If you don't believe that illegal copying is just like kidnapping and murder, you might prefer not to use the word “piracy” to describe it. Neutral terms such as “prohibited copying” or “unauthorized copying” are available for use instead. Some of us might even prefer to use a positive term such as “sharing information with your neighbor.”
On top of that Piracy is not a legally accepted term (in the USA) to describe Copyright infringement.  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 201.208.131.6 (talk) 00:50, August 20, 2007 (UTC) 
: Unfortunately for the Free Software Foundation, "piracy" is almost universally accepted as being as valid synonym of "copyright infringement", history of the language be damned. I do wish the FSF would spend time on something they're better at than telling people how to use the English language. Chris Cunningham 00:04, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use of the term Piracy 

message: Both the "vast memory card" and the "memory32" are not modchips but rather very special memory cards, comparable to passthrough devices. But, above anything, the last major revision of this article got rid of the excess example farm, mentioning single product names should not be necessary to explain the concept of a modchip. --FreddyTalk 07:45, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Undid the "memory card" edit 

message: The DMCA line was just incorrect and was purely illusive of the fact that the DMCA does not have anything to do with Physical Media, if anything this would have to do with duplication laws and not the DMCA. IF someone can find a rightful source of how this would be tied into the DMCA and thusly be illegal in the United States then please post it otherwise please stop posting it up there. 75.58.2.247 (talk) 05:27, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If you had bothered to read the DMCA you would know that it does apply in the context it was used in. See Anti-circumvention for a distilled discussion. And note that CDs and DVDs are digital (i.e. not analog) media. You seem to be confused as to what the DMCA actually says, which is why you should read it. Ham Pastrami (talk) 06:29, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: As it can be used for playing "homebrew" or import media, it seems that it would fall under exception 4 on the following page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-circumvention... Plus the people modchips are specifically noted as to not be used for illegal activity which means the people "should" have the game, and under "Reverse Engineering and Circumvention" of the same page it states the following: "Sec. 103(f) of the DMCA (12 U.S.C. Sec. 1201 (f)) says that if you legally obtain a program that is protected, you are allowed to reverse-engineer and circumvent the protection to achieve the ability the interoperability of computer programs (i.e., the ability to exchange and make use of information)..." Basically it can be used for illegal activities but it is technically legal until someone uses it for illegal purposes. And even then if the manufacturer of the chip or the installer of the chip has the buyer accept a non-responsibility notice then they are doing nothing wrong. My suggestion is can we edit it to where it says "the device can be used for illegal activities as noted by the DMCA" or think of some other way than to say it is illegal, flat out, since this is very biased to what people might do with such a chip. Sorry about the DMCA stuff, they have changed it since last time I had to read it. 75.58.2.247 (talk) 01:55, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Already covered. The article states:the circumvention of copy protection mechanisms - is outlawed by many countries' copyright laws such as the DMCA in the USA, the EUCD and its various implementations by the EU member countries, and the Australian Copyright Act. Other laws may apply to modchips, sometimes allowing very specific functions such as region coding circumvention. Also, I'm not sure why you're quoting section 103, as it only has to do with reverse engineering the protection mechanism, not the use of modchips. The exchange of information refers to using protocols to talk to the system, it does not allow you to run unauthorized game code ("to the extent that doing so does not constitute infringement"). You're basically just injecting what you want the words to mean into your understanding of the law. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. And no, a disclaimer does not make it any less illegal to sell illegal modchips. Ham Pastrami (talk) 03:16, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

text:  Please do also note that I made a very deliberate choice of words: The circumvention of copy protection mechanisms is illegal under the DMCA. This does not say anything about the legality of the activities made possible by disabling the copy protection mechanism, be it homebrew software or game piracy. FreddyTalk 23:47, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  While attempting not to bump this discussion, I'd like to add that this article is intended to be worldwide. As modchips are not region specific and sometimes are used to assure that video games be the same. 98.227.192.222 (talk) 12:01, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  The article is not referring to any particular country, just mentioning several countries' legislation. If that's what you are getting at. If not, I don't get what you are trying to say.  FreddyTalk 02:47, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Took out DMCA Stuff 

message: It seems to me the neutrality of this article is being brought into question, on several occasions. I'd like to add to that. The general gist of this article seems to be very anti-mod chip with phrases such as "...which invalidates a major reason to use a modchip."
(Mythiran (talk) 15:58, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that this very sentence might have an unwanted negative connotation, maybe the current revision is more neutral. Obviously, the "anti modchip measures" section caters for anti-modchip measures, and the rest of the article is strictly technical, so I assume you question the neutrality of the "legality" section? Please elaborate. FreddyTalk 00:22, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I found no pro-modchip inside this article? --213.168.120.155 (talk) 22:45, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Plastering the section with citation requests is very unneccessary when the laws themselves are referenced by their own Wikipedia article (unless, of course, you expect the specific paragraphs of the law texts). --Takimata (talk) 18:44, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Neutrality of Article

message: To the anonymous editor from 98.227.192.222: The effort is certainly appreciated, but the legality of modchips is impossible to state due to the many diversified possible functions and methods of modchips, even in countries where applicable laws are quite concrete the legality would have to be evaluated in court. Also, if you take a look at the discussion pages, you will see that legal conclusions are a touchy subject and have traditionally lead to heated discussions and edit wars. It is best to stay away from making definitive conclusions and leave the legality section inconclusive. FreddyTalk 12:14, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: So, you are telling the anonymous guests to "fuck off" and end the article in hiatus/development? Some YouTuber is gonna say "Yeah their legal inm mty Shanghai u cAN 2", then when someother person in the UK does it and gets charged by Sony for copyright infringement (snitches in the mail, happens rarely, but that doesn't mean never). Think about what you're doing and have a nice day. 98.227.192.222 (talk) 06:00, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I see your wish for a definitive answer regarding modchip legality, but unfortunately there isn't one. As long as no reliable source (in this case meaning law text, or a court decision) literally states legality of modchips in general, we must not conclude one. Please do note and understand the Wikipedia rule that forbids original research. FreddyTalk 10:46, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Legality conclusions 

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