Talk:Hitler and the Church

message: *Talk:Hitler and the Church/Archive 1 Str1977 10:42, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Archives

message: *The interweaving of denial and  avoidant reaction parallel but outside of the RKKt controversy  is shown here http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/apr2002/stie-a04.shtml :[] ,  in relation to  such as  Merkel or  Schroder , and modern Germany as a whole .  I insert this to assist editors in their view of the relative importance of the controversies  surrounding the  implementation of the Nazi coup'd'etat of 30 Jan 1933 by 23 mar 1933 . The controversies do not start on WP, nor end on WP .EffK
At Nuremburg , von Papen  closed down the Prosecution's allegation that the RKKt was  a maneuver  intended to deceive  by countering that perhaps I may in this connection point to the fact that the Gentlemen with whom I signed the Concordat were secretary of State Pacelli , the present Pope, who had known Germany personally for 13 years , and Monsignor Kaas , who for years had been the Chairman of the Centre Party , and that if these two men were willing to conclude a Concordat , then one can surely not maintain that there was a maneuver intended to deceive .  The link shows however that there has been no close to this day , and  that little has changed since Weimar . The link also explains some of the activity upon these pages , and provided extra motive . I reserve it as necessary for modern minds , in the absence of  glasnost  for the  RKKt Archives  , to enable  interior arbitration  . One doubts whether WP , even with its prominence, will stimulate this glasnost , so  conclusions will remain  un-interrupted by  further testimony  .The opening of the Archive might conceivably assist the denial , but the closure cannot . Meanwhile  it is  clear  that the WP is being massaged  , rather ably ! The subject of this link   may be worthy of its own article , and certainly a wider notice  . Users will soon find that even the german 'social democrats'  abdicated their  honour to Hitler, so there is no  socialist advantage  , in fact, to the link  . EffK 14:46, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Controversy Vector (into contemporary German politics)

message: Str1977:Now, as promised, here is the German text of Kaas reference to soul.
Meeting of the Centre party's Reichstags-fraction on 23 March, 1933, 11.15. 
(from Die Protokolle der Reichstagsfraktion und des Fraktionsvorstands der Deutschen Zentrumspartei 1926-1933 (edited by Rudolf Morsey), in: Veröffentlichungen der Kommission für Zeitgeschichte Reihe A: Quellen, Band 9), Mainz 1969, page 630.) (also in: Rudolf Morsey (ed.): Das "llErmächtigunsgesetz]]" vom 24. März 1933, Göttingen 1968, page 26-27.) EffK
"... Im Anschluß weißt Dr. Kaas auf die schwierige Stellung der Fraktion im gegenwärtigen Augenblick hin. Es gelte einerseits unsere Seele zu wahren, andererseits ergäben sich aus der Ablehnung des Ermächtigungsgesetz unangenehme Folgen für die Fraktion und die Partei. Es bliebe nur übrig, uns gegen das Schlimmste zu sichern. Käme die Zweidrittel-Majorität nicht zustande, so werde die Durchsetzung der Pläne der Reichsregierung auf anderem Wege erfolgen. Der Reichspräsident habe sich mit dem Ermächtigungsgesetz abgefunden. Auch von den Deutschnationalen her sei kein Versuch einer Entlastung der Situation. Dr. Kaas lehnte es ab, von sich aus einen Vorschlag zu machen, wie man sich entscheiden solle. ..." 
For the benefit of non-German speaker, I have translated this as closely as possible (so please excuse the clumsiness of the following text: 
After this, Dr. Kaas pointed out the precarious situation of the fraction in the current moment. It was important on one hand to preserve our soul and on the other hand a rejection of the Enabling Act would result in unpleasant consequences for fraction and party. What was left was only to safeguard us against the worst. If the 2/3-majority were not reached, the implementation of the government's plan would occur by another way. The President has accept (or resigned to) the Enabling act. From the DNVP too no attempt of allieviating the situation is to be expected. Dr. Kaas refused to himself make a proposal how to decide. 
You can read now for yourself what Kaas said (it's in the reported speech of protocol).Str1977 16:30, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Kaas words to zentrums re vote

message: EffK paraphrases Inmanuel Kant :I remind you that good action must not only conform to moral law , but be done for the sake of moral law . That good will is good not by what it performs but simply by virtue of the volition , and that the function of reason is to produce a will good in itself , for reason recognises the establishment of a good will as its highest practical destination . Robert McClenon I urge you to reconsider your position regarding the necessity for this article to relate not to Cornwell , but to the history . Necessarily , the failure of good action and good will must be reported and the legalities enumerated . I am angered by the continuous absence of good will and the suffocation of reason . Famekeeper 00:00, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Inmanuel Kant

message: "in April, 1938, Benito Mussolini privately suggested that the Vatican consider excommunicating Adolf Hitler. It is not clear if the Church ever seriously considered excommunicating Hitler. Il Duce sought Hitler ban, BBC News, 27 September, 2003. Last time accessed on 20 July, 2006"
A link and paragraph mostly about what Mussolini did and why is IMHO not on-topic in an article called Hitler and the Church. Str1977 (smile back) 19:25, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It was a talk with Church officials, regarding Hitler - it is not offtopic. Sigitas 19:39, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Mussolini

message: This page and the Nazism and religion page deal with essentially the same subject, with much overlap, and neither is overly long. Peregrine981 05:05, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger