Wikipedia talk:Route diagram template/Archive 3

message: Was working on Carlisle railway station yesterday. Reviewed and revised the station diagram area. I was not happy with the station diagram below the infobox as the resultant page had a lot of white space in the initial visible area. I have created :Template:Railway line header (center) to provide an alternative location on the page for these types of diagrams. Thoughts please. --Stewart 11:46, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Station Area Diagrams 

message: I'm not really sure on a title for this. I've noticed recently under railway line header, lines have seemed to reverted to being in sections rather than continuous, which is reminiscent of prettytable-R. So what is going on here? Simply south 22:05, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have reverted the edits by User:Max Schwarz who had changed the image size from 20px to 21px on :Template:BS, :Template:BS2, :Template:BS3, :Template:BS4 and :Template:BS5. The gaps have now gone. --Stewart 22:53, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, thanks. It looks normal now. Simply south 22:59, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is very weird.  There were gaps before my edits, so I increased the image sizes, which seemed to fix the problem.  And now the gaps have reappeared for me.  I am using Firefox/CaminoWhat browsers are y'all using?  How can we fix this?  On a related note, does anyone have any idea what is going on over at San Joaquins?  The route diagram has developed large gaps between rows, which previously only occured while editing.--  Talk [ (+)] 23:18, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

text: I am using IE6. There was an extensive set of changes made earlier this year as a result of gaps that existed (see Wikipedia_talk:Route_diagram_template/Archive_1#Annoying_spaces_-_a_solution). I have looked at San Joaquins and do not see any gaps. --Stewart 23:23, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Solved it.  The problem was with my custom font selection.  Oh well, sorry to bug you.--  Talk [ (+)] 03:23, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blocky vs fluid 

message: Hello, I'm attempting a translation of the table above per request from Max. Note: it's a bit technical, but I think I translated it correctly. The wording could probably be cleaned up a bit to match whatever article this goes with. Hope that helps. Cheers! Aelffin 09:55, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The English version often refers to the 'up' and 'down' directions where the German version speaks of the 'ahead' and 'reverse' directions - How about calling these 'Branch or curve away from central axis in down direction' or something like that? AlexTiefling 10:02, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation 

message: Maybe this is a better translation. The explanation didn't make sense to me after I'd translated it, but I'm sure I got the meaning more or less correct. Maybe the original German was mixed up, or maybe I'm just not understanding what these symbols are supposed to illustrate. At any rate, I think this is a more idiomatic approach to the translation. Hope this helps! Aelffin 23:20, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: They are used in situations such as :de:Traun-Alz-Bahn, where about halfway down the line merges.  It's part of a larger project which is being translated to here.--  Talk [ (+)] 00:15, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Cool. Thanks. Glad to be of help. Aelffin 01:40, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've tested it on Template:West Coast Main Line - compare that with the previous version. Comments welcome! – Tivedshambo (talk) 18:04, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  The modified form looks much improved, the curves are far easier on the eyes like this. Geoff Riley 18:44, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's still a bit, er, 'kinky' around Manchester Piccadilly, but it is much improved. The effect is better where there is an even split to/from two tracks -- but the single-line curves are 'not quite right' somehow. -- EdJogg 22:55, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Better Translation? 

message: All the icons are on a white background and yet the tables in which they appear have (on my computer at least) a very pale grey backround. This makes the outlines of the icon tiles visible. It looks particularly ugly when different row templates (e.g. BS and BS2) are mixed in the same diagram. Is there anything that could be done to make this problem invisible? --Dr Greg 11:46, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I suspect you're using IE6 or another older browser that doesn't render tranparencies in SVG files. I have the same problem, but it seems fine in Firefox. I'm not sure if there's a solution or not. – Tivedshambo (talk) 17:31, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cosmetic issue with background colours 

message: I have added Beattock Summit to :Template:Caledonian Railway (Carstairs to Carlisle). Initially I used KMW as the symbol to mark the location, however this is not the correct icon (as User:Signalhead has noted and amended). A more appropriate symbol would be desirable, which could be used for many other Summits - Shap, Schlod, etc - when appropriate. --Stewart 05:53, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've used ÜST for the summit of the Lickey Incline in Birmingham to Worcester via Bromsgrove Line, as there is a crossover there. I don't know if this is applicable to Beattock. – Tivedshambo (talk) 09:34, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd strongly support the creation of a summit or height-marker symbol too - this is highly relevant to waterways as well as to railways. (If it's a generic height-marker symbol, it can be used for lowest points too - such as those in the Severn and Channel Tunnels.) AlexTiefling 10:41, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've created STRSummit, based on a similar icon for public footpaths (fSTRSummit) - see Birmingham to Worcester via Bromsgrove Line for an example. If this is acceptable, I'll create an ex version later. – Tivedshambo (talk) 09:54, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks good to me. Probably best to include the altitude of the summit in feet and in metres if you can. Can we have t-versions as well as ex-versions, please, and matching low points? Many thanks. AlexTiefling 12:11, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The only problem is this icon looks like an arrow, and might perhaps be misinterpreted as a "one-way" symbol. A possible alternative would be a smaller triangle alongside the line instead of in the middle of it? --Dr Greg 17:04, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done! – Tivedshambo (talk) 20:17, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Icon Request - Summit Marker 

message: Is it possible to rerequest for having 3-way station icons...? 
Currently: Shipley and Earlestown
Historically: Morfa Mawddach, Forres, Ambergate and possibly Leeds (Imay be wrong and have mixed up this last one), to name a few. There are probably others out there. Simply south 22:23, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't speak for the rest, but the lines for Earlestown split either side of the station, and the station only services the branches on the Liverpool side of the branches.  I think that it would be simplest to illustrate with a branch before leading to two station symbols on the two lines before showing the Warrington branch off (assuming your general flow is Liverpool - Manchester), and then a join of the two branches towards Manchester above.  I've not mastered Spoorstrip yet or else I'd show what I mean... Geoff Riley 06:00, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

text: Okay, a very rough attempt at what I mean... as I say, I'm not proficient with Spoorstrip...
Geoff Riley 06:21, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rerequest 

message: Could I request some alternative opinions for the route diagram for this article. It originally looked like this , showing the main line beside it and the connecting line. This was reduced by an anonymous user to this , showing the line with no connections at all. To compromise, I added the connection only , as most diagrams show connections to other routes. However, this is being reverted by anonymous users (or possibly the same one - the last two reverts have been similar IP addresses). I'd like a clearer consensus before altering it again. Many thanks. – Tivedshambo (talk) 20:41, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have reverted the route map to the original layout by Tivedshambo. This detail is import to show the line in context with its connection line, especially since other important detail (original goods depot, over/under-bridges) are shown). If you look at the work being done as part of WP:TIS - specifically Paisley Canal Line this is the combination of a currently and historical detail - it shows the various junctions in context. This is similar to that of the Stourbridge line. Other Scottish Routes are split between Historic lines and currently open lines. If you follow this then there will be an article for the current operation with a very simple route map and an historic article covering the line from construction with a detailed route map showing the connections in context (for examples see Cathcart Circle Lines, Cathcart District Railway and Lanarkshire and Ayrshire Railway to see how this works in practice) --Stewart 21:15, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just adding my agreement that the more detailed version is better. Marc Shepherd 11:27, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree - version 1 is by far the best. Fingerpuppet 12:45, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Stourbridge Town Branch Line]] - third opinions requested 

message: The Infobox Template:BS-daten is particularly useful in its purpose - adding length, an image etc - but a bit painful in its implementation, mainly because it is still in German. I have started a discussion and a Sandbox to convert the existing German port to English. I was thinking a few "English" improvements could be added like a changing it from displaying Gauge in mm to show just Broad, Narrow and Standard with mm in brackets, and an automatic converter of line length from km to imperial or vise-versa. Discuss on the talk page as to what people think. Nomadtales 00:09, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it is a bit off-topic here regarding this template. In fact I had worked on a similar template, :template:rolling_stock. But thsi template is primarily dedicated to EMU which the template title doesn't suggest... -- Sameboat - 同舟 00:53, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: BS-daten is designed to be included into this template, as an infobox at the start (see a small example here Template:Main North Line). I asked for input yesterday on the daten talk page .. no one responded .. I thought I would expand the reach, so to speak. Nomadtales 02:01, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  BS-Daten 

message: On a routemap, where a branch line joins a main line, there is often a need to show the direction of traffic flow on the major route. Although this can be achieved with normal text, the wording can be cumbersome and may require multiple lines to include.
To get round this problem, I have created , which allows the editor to specify the 'to' and/or 'from' destinations of the route in question and show this information graphically. For example: 
The template may be seen in use on the routemap for Staines to Windsor & Eton Line, where it clarifies the junction layout at Staines. The template code may be added to a BS field in the same way as for a wikilink or straight text, so it is simple to use.
Note that the template has now been completely re-designed (from the protoype previously described here) to allow any combination of left/right/up/down arrows and one or two placenames. For further details, see the template documentation at .
EdJogg 17:00, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New "RoutemapRoute" Template (Redesigned) 

message: STR and leer do not appear to be displaying currently on Firefox or IE7... they seem to be still in commons, is there a fault? Geoff Riley 11:38, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: GreenBrowser as well. Tried to delete the temporary internet files and ctrl+refresh, no good. -- Sameboat - 同舟 12:26, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Icons missing? 

message: What is the proper way to signify a change in trains?  For example, the Amtrak Cascades route goes from Vancouver, BC, to Seattle, WA, but to continue on to Eugene, OR, passengers must change trains, even though the line is still called Cascades.  The timetable restarts the mileage at Seattle.  How should I represent this?  I am currently working on the template in my sandbox.--  Talk [ (+)] 18:34, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Update: I have now moved the template to the Amtrak Cascades article.--  Talk [ (+)] 19:14, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Tough question, I would have run two lines using a wide template like BS5. Pickle 01:17, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed - I would use BS2 for this. Let me know if you'd like me to try updating the page appropriately, Max. AlexTiefling 10:39, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I understand this template not to describe the route of trains, but the physical layout of the tracks the train runs on.--L.Willms 07:25, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Changing trains? 

message: We have started to use the BS templates and icons in Ferropedia (Spanish),  (introduction in this page). We find the system excellent but we are encountering some strange minor problems. We wonder if somebody else has experienced similar problems.
* Although we have uploaded the same icons from commons (using the same German names), a few of them do not show correctly. In particular, we have problems with icons of the series "t" (tunnel). Looking in the table of this page you may notice that some of the symbols appear as a light pink line instead of a broken line, whereas the other ones appear correctly.
* In the same table, sign exBRÜCKE1 is dark red instead of pale pink
* In the same table, several of the  BRÜCKE signs do not appear, although they have been uploaded. Our experience is that after several hours or even days they may suddently appear (and they stay!). We had the same problem with the ÜST signs. Is the "Umlaut" the problem?
In addtion, we will need in the future two new icons. If somebody would like to help is welcome. They re the following:
* Overpass to change the left (France) to right (Spain) circulation (necessary in km ~ 10 of the new HST Perpignan-Figueres
* Icon for automatic gauge change (presently there are around  such 15 installations, in the future more than 30 will be necessary in Spain. 
Otherwise all seems to work fine and we are profiting a lot of your excellent work! --Ferropediamember 16:49, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Re: "Overpass to change the left (France) to right (Spain) circulation" - ÜST - Track Switch is the one you are looking for. --L.Willms 07:35, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Using BS Templates in [http://ferrocarriles.wikia.com Ferropedia (Spanish)] 

message: Would it be possible, by using an expanding table, to have the legend link in  expand to show the legend as a template when clicked, rather than as a direct link? This would mean users could see the map and the legend together, rather than having to use the back button on their browsers. – Tivedshambo (talk) 21:47, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As the other discussions on this page attest, the expanding tables are not the most reliable mechanism. :D Personally I think the legend would look best as a pop-up like WP:POPUPS, although there's no way to implement something like that for all users. You might be interested in the discussions of IPA pronunciation at Template talk:%C6%B7, particularly the creative uses of the title attribute. Vagary 04:50, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Embedded legend? 

message: Its been brought to my attention (see here) that an editor using IE is experiencing graphical display "incosistences" (photo here) when concerning the North London Line (ie :Template:North London Line. I on the other don't have the problem when using XP & IE7 or firefox 1.5. Pickle 00:02, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That problem looks familiar: it was the kind of layout issue I encountered while getting the collapsible stuff working. I don't recall what specifically caused it. I don't have access to IE (and, frankly, am not the most qualified person to diagnose collapsible issues), but if Hammersfan produces a minimal test case I'll certainly take a look at it. Vagary 04:41, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Collapsible problem 

message: So the general consensus (actually by 3 users plus me) concluded the CPIC replacement by option 2. But more comments or submissions are still welcome. Now my major concern is that whether overwrite the current version by new option or not, once the full set (raw, t, ex, u, ut, uex) of new option is done. Overwriting the old version can reduce the frustration of editing the existing digrams which already apply the CPIC set, if MOST editors prefer this replacement. I think I won't wait for too long. I will start creating the new set based on option 2 and overwrite CPIC for 0 opposition in this weekend. -- Sameboat - 同舟 03:54, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Since these elements are on Commons, is it necessary to check with any other wikis that use the same base? (Ignorance of who shares commons showing here a little!) Geoff Riley 07:43, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If we make a decision quickly, that should not be necessary, since Sameboat was the person who drew them in the first place and they are not in widespread use yet. (Incidentally, for 'vote-counting' purposes, I am one of the 3 users mentioned above...) EdJogg 09:09, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Replacement of large parallel interchange (CPIC) symbol set 

message: The project page stated that this was considered obsolete. Very few pages were using it so I converted all references except those on user pages to to use Template BS instead and also made some updates to the project page. Unless anyone objects, it might be a good idea to get the BSe template deleted.Meddlin' Pedant 18:48, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: very good, I agree. HandigeHarry 19:10, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Template BSe 

message: Hello - can someone please fix the error in :Template:Gwabegar Line - the problem icon is opposite Gulgong station on the line. I made my own icon for it (to show the two lines passing through the station area but only the branch line actually serves the platform road), but it doesn't seem to be working. Thanks. JRG 03:16, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: fixed, here's the code for reference. Remember the canvas size for a standard full-size icon must be 500*500. -- Sameboat - 同舟 04:09, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help with template