Talk:Chelsea, Manhattan

message: I'm not the one who zapped On the Waterfront.  But it probably should be.  It really jumps off as inaccurate (unless there's a citation).  The movie was filmed in Hoboken and is based on Red Hook, Brooklyn (the original title was "The Hook").  There's lots of confusion when folks use the term New York waterfront.  The New York waterfront refers to New York Harbor and so can be New Jersey or New York.  By 1953 when the film was made, commercial freight in Manhattan was well into its decline (although Brooklyn continued to operate).  
Here's an article on the movie:
http://www.filmsite.org/onth.html
Americasroof 13:46, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: On The Waterfront

message: "The HIV rate in Chelsea is twenty five percent"  
Is this correct?  That's as high as Sub-Saharan Africa, which is generally considered to be the worst affected area in the world (by a considerable margin) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.201.156.187 (talk) 07:52, 15 April 2007‎ (UTC)
:I don't know if the above statistic is correct,but I know HIV infection in Chelsea is higher the then national average sad but true.74.73.176.161 (talk) 14:01, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That is completely false; perhaps it's in quotes to signify irony.  Although some reports suggested up to half of gay men in certain neighborhoods had HIV, gay men have never even constituted twenty-five percent of the population in Chelsea.  Notably, the fabricator neither references nor signs their post.  Stephenrumson (talk) 21:09, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: That statement is no longer in the article. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:02, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  HIV 

message: A simple MAP would help. 192.122.237.11 (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 21:19, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: A map of what?  The neighborhood?, the historic district(s)?  Including points of interest or just streets?Generally, finding usable (i.e. not copyrighted) maps is not easy. Sounds simple, but it ain't. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:47, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Map

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I don't really understand the edit or comment here. The images has good composition, resolution and composition. "Poor" is just a very subjective and random opinion. The quality is higher when most images in the article, compare with for example Cushman Row West 20th.jpg (perspective distortion, overexposed sky), Highline_519_and_HL23.jpg (perspective distortion, tight crop), IAC night jeh.jpg (perspective distortion, overall low quality with strong noise, tight crop) or General Theological Seminary Desmond Tutu Center.jpg (tight crop, perspective distortion, bad wb, overexposed sky). Both the building (London Terrace) (mentioned in the section) and the street 10th avenue is very relevant for the article.--ArildV (talk) 21:08, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: The image is dark, and the building is unidentifable.  The building is also the subject of a clear, straightforward image later in the article, so there is no need for a repeat.  We don't need "artsy" images on Wikipedia, we need images that clearly represent their subject matter.  Jim Henderson's image of the IAC building manages to be both. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:48, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  (edit conflict) It's just nonsense, the building is not unidentifiable (you need to check your display). The images have a high educational value, showing both the building and streets. And please stop using suppression techniques and guilt by association arguments like "we dont need artsy images". I have uploaded thousands of high quality and high educational images to Wikimedia. The images clearly represent the building and the streets at night.--ArildV (talk) 22:04, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

text: And my display is fine, thank you. The matter is simple, your criteria for what is a "good" image is not Wikipedia's. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:51, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  Suppression techniques is a poor substitute for argument. --ArildV (talk) 22:04, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  What the heck are "suppression techniques"?Your image is not suitable for the article, and does not enhance it.  Strips of car lgiths and a hulking dark mass of a building shows nothing to our readers.  We are an encyclopedia, not a photographic art gallery, and our images, like our text, should convey information to them.  We need straight-forward, identifiable images, just as we need straight-forward and understandable writing, and not florid prosody.Your image has virtually no information in it, it could have been taken at almost any Manhattan intersection.  The buildings are unidentifiable (compare with the photo of the building later in the article, which shows what it actually looks like) and no information about 10th Avenue is conveyed, except that cars have lights they use at night which will make streaks on a long exposure.I'm glad that you've been so wonderfully honored at Commons for your photography, but that's not relevant here: their criteria are not ours.  Ours are what I've outlines above, and your image does not fulfill them.  I'm sorry if that hurts your ego, but that is the fact. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:16, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Um, a poor quality (dark and washed out) image is a poor quality image. And I don't see the point of it anyway. We have a perfectly good picture of London Terrace already in the article. --regentspark (comment) 22:23, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

text:  Master suppression techniques. And you are just repeating the the same false statement (the building is not unidentifiable or a "dark mass). As a substitute for argument, you are trying to teach me about wikipedia (I know Wikipedia). You don't hurt me, your hurt Wikipedia.--ArildV (talk) 22:25, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  You're entitled to your opinions about me, however wrong they are, but they don't change the fact that the image is not suitable for the article. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:28, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  Its not a fact, is your very personal opinion. And your argument is a false statement (unidentifiable) and patronizing comments.--ArildV (talk) 22:32, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  Regardless of your personal feelings, the image is not suitable, for the reasons outlined above.  You've noted, I hope, that the only other editor to comment here agrees?  Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:34, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  "Personal feelings", again patronizing comments as a substitute for arguments. And another editor disagree.--ArildV (talk) 22:40, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

text: Only night shot?  Look again. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:50, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: So hey I see the redundancy between the images. I see how the night one is artsy with the exposure, but for a night photo, long exposure is necessary/beneficial. The day photo is slightly overexposed (as viewed on my monitor - typically a darker monitor too). The night photo shows some cafe night life I can appreciate. It's also framed better and the streets are clearer due to exposure/no big bus. Overall I sorta prefer the night one, as a photographer and for the encyclopedic value of the nightlife. ɱ (talk) · vbm  · coi) 04:28, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it looks more washed out than artsy. And, does a single restaurant with no other street life really qualify as representative of "nightlife"? I don't think so. Do we just want to include an image "because it's there"?--regentspark (comment) 13:00, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Which one do you think is overexposed (washed out)? And many notable and august paintings of outdoor/nighttime dining only feature solely one business. If Vincent Van Gogh found it emblematic of dining nightlife, how can you disagree? ɱ (talk) · vbm  · coi) 14:27, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: True (about Vinne). But, we're an encyclopedia not an art gallery. And, you did say "encyclopedic value of the nightlife". This image is not at all representative of the nightlife. What it says is that there is almost no nightlife (one restaurant, no pedestrians, no street life except for a few cars).  Might as well be a shot of a street corner in LA. --regentspark (comment) 15:56, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Irrelevant; I find the fact that a random street corner has so many people dining at so late is very representative. I'm done here, more things to move on to, I'll agree to disagree. ɱ (talk) · vbm  · coi) 22:27, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Poor images? 

message: We shouldn't be fiddling around with image sizes, especially as the results one sees on their own screen / browser combinations may not match other users. I also fail to see why we should be including external links to various neighborhood guides, which should either be integrated into the article as references or simply removed.In terms of the image of London Terrace, I agree that the early evening picture leaves out too much details. The daytime shot provided in the section above would be a better choice.Discuss. Alansohn (talk) 22:54, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image sizes and external links to neighborhood guides 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Let me preface this by stating that I understand that Manhattan neighborhood boundaries are generally unofficial and somewhat fluid. That said, the generally accepted boundaries of a neighborhood should be stated. If there is a strong general consensus as to a boundary, it should be used. 
I take issue with referring to Chelsea's eastern boundary as "either Sixth Avenue or Fifth Avenue." Here are the reasons:
* For decades, the New York Times has consistently expressed that Avenue of the Americas (Sixth Avenue) is Chelsea's rough eastern boundary. The lone Times "Living In Chelsea" report that referred to Fifth Avenue as its rough eastern boundary is almost 40 years old. This is the only source cited for that view. If this were still regarded by the Times as the rough eastern boundary of Chelsea, it would have referred to it again in the several Living In reports published since then. (Note: That 1982 article corresponds with a journalist's history of Chelsea's borders, showing that the view of its boundaries were most expansive in the late 1970s but have long since retreated to Sixth Avenue.)
All New York Times Living In Chelsea reports published more recently have set Sixth Avenue as its rough eastern boundary. See below:
** 2000: "The neighborhood itself runs, roughly, from 14th Street to 29th Street and from the Avenue of the Americas to the Hudson River."
** 2015: "Today’s Chelsea, the swath west of Avenue of the Americas between 14th and 34th Streets, could be the poster neighborhood for what Mayor Bill de Blasio calls the tale of two cities."
** The current New York Times Real Estate Guide also has Sixth Avenue as the eastern boundary.
** Further, even by 1985, a Living In report on the Flatiron District states that Flatiron is east of Sixth Avenue and distinct from Chelsea. All of the multiple "Living in the Flatiron District" reports published since then have followed suit. 
** In sum, the Times' view of Chelsea's rough eastern boundary has been consistent and clear. We should not rely on a source that is almost 40 years old when they have been very consistent since then.
* Among the most official and quasi-official sources that can be found, the neighborhood does not extend beyond Sixth Avenue.
** The municipality's list of block and neighborhood associations serving Chelsea do not include any that serve neighborhoods west of Sixth Avenue. Further, none of the Community Board 5 neighborhood associations (which Chelsea would include if it did extend to Fifth Avenue) have "Chelsea" in their titles or neighborhoods.
** If Chelsea actually extended beyond Sixth Avenue to Fifth, it would swallow well-established neighborhoods that are regarded as distinct from Chelsea. It would effectively eat up the Flatiron District, a neighborhood that even appears on the municipality's official zoning map.
* There is a very strong general consensus that the eastern boundary is Sixth Avenue. In addition to those already cited in the article, other strong sources include the following:
** The Encyclopedia of New York City
** Fodor's: Chelsea, p. 15
** NYC Official Guide
** PropertyShark: Map of Chelsea
** Zillow/StreetEasy: Map of Chelsea
** NYC Locality project map
** CityNeighborhoods project map
** Handbook for Moving to and Living in New York City
I propose referring to Sixth Avenue (not "either Sixth Avenue or Fifth Avenue") as Chelsea's rough eastern boundary.
Precision123 (talk) 23:00, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chelsea's eastern boundary 

message: I believe Joni Mitchell's song "Chelsea Morning" recorded in 1969 is about waking up in this district on a beautiful spring morning.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Siglo2 (talk • contribs) 02:42, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cultural Reference - Joni Mitchell 

message: Much of Chelsea was a part of the French district, where most of the French immigrants lived. 2603:7080:953D:2470:8841:E4E7:7197:2758 (talk) 19:51, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  The French District