Talk:The Glass Ballerina

message: According to TV Guide, the October 11th episode will be Locke-centric.  Does anyone have a source saying otherwise? --Elonka 19:49, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A good reason not to trust unofficial sources.  Or, for that matter, to speculate about an episode before it airs. -- PKtm 02:51, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Locke

message: Has anyone got an image of the map that Sayid was looking at, where he was evidently charting the island's coastline?  That would be a good addition to the article. --Elonka 19:43, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Map

message: * ABC wiki for "The Glass Ballerina" episode
* "Lost Wiki" entry for "The Glass Ballerina"
</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>
::We can also add in others which have consensus approval, and potentially add a disclaimer like, "Information at these links may contain unverified and speculative information.  Use at your own risk.".  I strongly believe that having these kinds of links on the episode articles will help divert "fancruft" away from Wikipedia, as it will help direct people to other locations where they can post all the information that they want.  I also believe that it will make the Wikipedia articles even stronger, as a useful central location from which our readers can find the information that they're looking for. --Elonka 17:05, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I completely disagree, and won't take the time here to reiterate all the specific arguments I and others have cited in the Talk:Lost (TV series)/Fansites discussion.  Elonka, I think this suggestion of yours actually contradicts a lot of the good work we did in the mediation on guidelines.  In any case, rather than confine the topic to this episode's discussion page, I suggest you move it somewhere more central, such as Talk:List of Lost episodes. PKtm 03:09, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Jtrost has not only reverted the edits without discussing them with me here, but said in his edit summary "please see talk regarding episode policy."'  You might want to check out this page yourself, Jtrost, since you were apparently unaware that I had already been engaging in dialogue with you and others here for some time.  Please see my above rationale about the 500 word limit--which is a guideline, and not a rule.  And since we're on the subject, here's another factual inaccuracy from the edit you favor:  "'In a flashback, Jin tells Sun that Mr. Paik wants him to kill somebody."  Jin never told her this.  Please let's keep the plot summary accurate. Nightscream 02:57, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nightscream, while I agree with some of your edits, please recognize that the total length of the episode plot summary (now 859 words) is excessive.  Yes, the 500 is a guideline, and we have some signed-off episodes with a slightly greater word count(see the list on the guidelines talk page here, but 859 words definitely exceeds the intent of that guideline.  In other words, this will get pared down, by myself or others, so I suggest that you yourself give it a shot, keeping it as close to 500 words as you can. Thanks, PKtm 03:09, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Um, total words?  I trust you mean what could you eliminate?  Well, not every detail absolutely must be included.  Again, please read the long discussion surrounding the mediation and this issue, and the resulting guidelines that specify that the episode summaries should focus on the flashback characters, and should only mention events important to the central character and his/her flashback, events that relate to the ongoing or future story lines, and events that emphasize the story elements and thematic motifs sections in the main Lost article.  For example, it's not absolutely critical that we specify that Jae has a pearl necklace clutched in his hand, or to include the detail about Sawyer being called James, etc.  I realize that it often feels that everything in the script matters and bears mentioning, but that's a tribute to the careful writing of this show, in my view.  Nonetheless, the goal is 500 words of the summary: shoot for it. -- PKtm 05:18, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

text: If you believe there are factual inaccuracies, then please fix them.  However, a few mistakes here and there doesn't justify a total rewrite that that doesn't follow the episode policy.  And although it is not an official Wikipedia policy, we do enforce it as such. Jtrost (T | C | #) 11:49, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I don't know whom you're addressing with this lengthy reply, frankly.  I haven't done any reverting here, and there isn't an "edit I favor" per se.  There's a voluminous discussion backing the results of the mediation, which I won't repeat here, other than to emphasize that the outcome matters, and that it included, among other things, an arduously reached agreement that the guideline would be 500 words. This outcome took months to achieve, was settled just a few weeks ago right as everyone involved was at a point of near exhaustion on the whole discussion, and I must admit I have no patience for a new editor here revisiting the basics yet again.  In other words, I ask you to please recognize that there is a 500 word guideline and that all episode article editors need to do what they can to respect that.  If you don't, and willfully so, your work will be reverted, and yes, some of the baby might get thrown out with the bathwater, as the saying goes.  Figure out what can be eliminated so that the summary comes closer to the guideline; I don't especially want to debate necklaces and water and Sawyer's name per se, because that's not the point.  As I pointed out, in Lost, every detail matters, or so it seems, so paring an episode summary down to the essentials is admittedly a difficult task.  But we all need to deal with that.  Oh, and please do sign your contributions here. Thanks. -- PKtm 14:57, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

text: You don't know who I'm addressing here?  Who do you think I'm addressing here?  I'm engaged in a discussion with all concerned, and that includes you.  As far as you asking that I recognize the 500 word guideline, I ask you that you recognize that the edit you favor already exceeds it by over 119 words, as I mentioned above.  Continuing to ignore me because you are too exhausted from prior discussions, or because you think that you do not have to discuss such things with "new editors" will not resolve this.  Let's try to keep this civil, okay?  I am also unconvinced by your "baby and bathwater" argument that when reverting to a prior edit, you cannot incorporate the corrections to the factually incorrect statements I contributed.  Thanks.  Nightscream 15:07, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nightscream, I feel that you're not listening. As I clearly stated above, there is not an "edit I favor".  What I favor is everyone respecting the guideline that was reached through months-long mediation. And let's please not throw around accusations of being uncivil, because at no point have I been uncivil. Anyway, the current summary stands at 756 words.  Please pare it down further, or others will. -- PKtm 15:23, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Come on, Nightscream. I don't need to take this ill-targeted abuse. Please do your homework before accusing. I have not ONCE reverted the article, contrary to your direct accusation that I have done so.  Check the article's edit history here. You may be confusing me with Jtrost, and frankly, you owe me an apology.  So again, for the third time, I do not have a particular edit that I favor, so all your points that you claim I keep refusing to respond to are moot.  The rest of my points stand, in particular, the last sentence of my previous post. -- PKtm 17:09, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I went ahead and edited the article per WP:LOST/Episode guidelines.  These guidelines were created by consensus and should be respected, unless someone can prove that there is a consensus to change them.  --Elonka 03:06, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: External links

message: Requested move for:
*Live Together, Die Alone (Lost) → Live Together, Die Alone
*The Glass Ballerina (Lost) → The Glass Ballerina
*Whatever the Case May Be (Lost) → Whatever the Case May Be
Discuss/vote here --`/aksha 03:40, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 

message: :Image:Glassballerina1.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot (talk) 14:37, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Glassballerina1.jpg

message: Is it really necessary to have references to future plot resolutions in the article? Having a detailed description of how Sun's pregnancy and infidelity are addressed in future episodes will serve as a veritable spoiler for those who haven't seen the entire series.
I hope someone removes the references before the page is submitted for a "Good Article" nomination. I feel it just defeats the purpose of having such references for an article, related to a T.V. series in the "Thriller" genre.
Sudhir R 12:02, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Future Episodes' References 

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