Talk:Silat

message: Silat is an Indo-Malay origin fighting style. This is pure nonsense. You can even tell by the name that Silat is of middle east influence. Tamils live in south-India or Sri Lanka, with little to no connection to Indo-Malay culture. It has been historically proven that Silat is definately NOT Hindu or Chinese origin, but unique to the Indo-Malay territories and culture. Stop the propaganda.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.147.231.71 (talk) 09:54, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Silat is NOT of Hindu, Buddhist or Chinese origin 

message: I would like to say that Silat is a Malay/Indonesian's pure martial art based on the research ran by O'ong Maryono, published in the Rapid Journal, Vol 4, No. 3 (Book 13, 1999: 38 – 39) under the heading The Origin of Pencak Silat as told by Myths. It is also published in the website www.kpsnusantara.com.
Moreover, there are many proofs that deny the theories that the silat derived from China/India. It is because as I told earlier in this "discussion page" 
that there are still exists a kind of Silat (Silat Sendeng of East Coast of West Malaysia- derived from a tortoise movements) that created by a man based on the nature. He once appeared on the tv news in Malaysia.
But I agree about some influences to some kind of Silat. The influences are only on the use of some weapons, for example the use of "tekpi" (tekpi is not a Malay weapon) but there are no influences about the movements since Malays/Indonesians created the Silat based on the nature.
For those who are not capable to view the journal in the website, I paste it belows:
The Origin of Pencak Silat as told by Myths
Rapid Journal, Vol 4, No. 3 (Book 13, 1999: 38 – 39)'''
© O'ong Maryono
www.kpsnusantara.com'''
It is not easy to trace back the history of pencak silat because written documentation is limited and oral information handed down from the guru or masters cannot fully answer all the riddles. In particular, it is very complicated to determine when and from where pencak silat begun, and who pioneered its spreading. Still, all the experts believe that our Malay ancestors created and used pencak silat as self-defense technique already in prehistoric times. Mariun Sudirohadiprodo, a renowned Indonesian pencak silat master and pendekar, for example claims that the animal's character was an inspirational source in the creation of pencak silat techniques and styles:
At the time, the ferocity of wild animals threatened the life of prehistoric people in the archipelago. Being the wild animals their natural enemy, humans had to pay attention to the animals' moves and adopt similar movements as self-defense techniques. They copied the movements of tigers, eagles, snacks, crocodiles, monkeys, scorpions and dragons. Gradually pencak silat styles were developed out of these observations such as the harimau (tiger) and garuda putih (white eagle) styles. (Marijun Sudirohadiprodjo 1982:1; see also Tisnowati Tamat 1986:15; Murhananto 1993:7)
During my research from 1994 until 1998 I gathered many myths and legends about the origin of pencak silat that stress the role of nature on the development of self-defense techniques in the archipelago. Although the historical value of such myths can be questioned, from an anthropological point of view they are worth attention since they express people's explanations of a certain cultural phenomena. In this case, pencak silat is considered an integral part and at the same time product of the surrounding environments. For example, in the small island of Bawean on the North coast of Java, the dominant legend claims that monkeys were the "pioneers" of pencak silat movements:
Rama Sukana went to the river to do the wash. Suddenly, she saw on the side of the river a pair of monkeys fighting. One of the monkeys repeatedly attacked the other one with a tree's tack while the other monkey was jumping and moving aside to avoid the blows. Rama Sukana stopped her activities and took notice of the monkeys' fighting techniques. She was so enthusiast that she did not finish her works and arrived late at home. The husband, Rama Isruna who had been waiting, become hungry and tried to beat her but she used the techniques she had just learned from the monkeys to avoid the husband's attack. In the end, Rama Istruna became tired and asked his wife where she had learned such fantastic techniques. After Rama Sukama explained to him her experience, the husband asked her to train him. Now these techniques are known as pencak Bawean.
Similar stories are also told in other Indonesian provinces. In West Java, the Silat Cimande style is said to derive from the wife of Mba Kaher who learned her techniques from a tiger fighting with a monkey. In Sumatra, the myth narrates how silat techniques were conceptualized by observing the fight of a big bird with a tiger. Also in neighboring Malaysia, such stories are popular:
One day in a village, a housewife who was carrying food in a basket above her head was attacked by a group of birds that tried to steal her food .The housewife tried to move from the right to the left and from the left to the right to avoid the attack of the birds. She also kept moving forward and back, trying to skim them with the hands. Doing so, she lost time and arrived late at home. She tried to explain to her furious husband what had happened, but he would not accept it. He attacked her and she had to defend herself with the same movements she had just practiced with the birds. The husband was unable to touch her, eventually got tired, and finally asked her to teach him the techniques she had just employed. With dedication, he practiced with his wife and developed what is now known as seni silat.(Tuan Ismail Tuan Soh 1991:36-37)
It is interesting to note that most of these myths give a prominent role to women as the initiators of pencak silat, in sharp contrast with today reality where men dominate the pencak silat world and only few women pendekar can still be found. Women's dominance does not imply that mythology totally neglects men as can be seen from the following Javanese legend:
There was a young man who watched some flowers fall into the river and being carried by the stream flow towards the waterfalls. The young man thought that the flowers would be completely shattered by the waterfalls but to his surprise this did not happen. Every time the flowers ended under a waterfall they soon reappeared pushed up by the upside down stream. From this experience, the young man was inspired to create attack and counter-attack movements. (Summary from Chambers and Draegar in Tuan Ismail Tuan Soh 1991:37-38)
Notwithstanding the different sex of the various protagonists, all these myths concur that pencak silat was inspired by nature. Our ancestors spontaneously developed their self-defense techniques by observing natural phenomena that occurred in their daily life. With this new knowledge, tribal groups were able to contain the many dangers that surrounded them. In the following centuries, these instinctive movements were adapted to new arising needs and in due time became a well-thought self-defense system.
References
Marijun Sudirohadiprodjo
1982 Pencak Silat Kita Dihari Kemudian, Bulletin KONI no.7, hlm.10-14
Murhananto
1993 Menyelami Pencak Silat, Jakarta: Puspa Swara
Tisnowati Tamat
1986 Pelajaran Dasar Pencak Silat, Jakarta: Maswar.
Tuan Ismail Tuan Soh
Silat Sekebun; Seni Silat Melayu Dengan Tumpuan Kepada Seni. Kuala Lumpur: Dewan Bahasa dan Pustaka Kementrian Pendidikan Malaysia. 
Maybe anyone can correct the facts in the Silat article.
Thanks.
Mr. Knows (talk) 13:28, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Watching animals, just like Chinese Kungfu styles, and learning from women, just like Wing Chun Kungfu. Maybe it was all down to convergence evolution. 81.129.182.221 (talk) 02:52, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: TRUE FACTS ABOUT THE ORIGIN OF SILAT/PENCAK

message: It's been a few weeks since the silat articles were divided into three and the question of whtther this was justified is largely over. Nevertheless, I thought I should bring up related points because I think it would improve the articles. First of all, silat's country of origin should be stated appropriately according to the articles. In the pencak silat article the only country should be Indonesia. In the article clumsily-named "Silat (Malaysian martial arts)", the countries should be Malaysia, Thailand, Singapore and Brunei since it's supposed to be about the Malaysian forms of silat. Other countries like the Philippines could only be included if the title was re-named Silat Melayu which I would suggest doing. 
The origin of silat is not included in the history parts of any of the articles. All silat forms share the common beginnings in Sumatera which came through the Indians and Chinese. This article only glances at it by saying "There is evidence that Chinese and Indian martial arts influenced silat". This is a gross understatement since the Indians and Chinese provided the very basis for all of Malay culture. Can you imagine if a similar quote was applied to karate? Without the combined influences, silat would have probably more closely resembled Filipino styles. The article goes on to say that silat was spread along with Islam. This is very ignorant since silat dates back long before any Malay had even heard of the religion. 
Indon, I think you over-reacted about my changing the definition of kuntao. You could have just reverted, given your reason for doing so and I'd get the point. You didn't need to accuse me of vandalism. Although you have convinced me that I was wrong, I think that people should be more explicit in the books they quote from and not just assume that any book is an authoritative text. IMHO, Sheik Shamsuddin's book "The Malay Art of Self-defence" is an awful work which I wouldn't recommend to anybody, not even those with no prior knowledge of silat whom the book was aimed at. However there are very few English books about silat and anyway, I'm certainly in no position to stop people from quoting him. Another issue I think should be addressed is the modern Muslim interpretation of silat but that's another story. Morinae 09:10, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's even an awful work of an editor trying to push his/her own interpretation just popped-up from their heads saying they are more authoritative than somebody who had published their own books. You (morinae) is just anybody else in Wikipedia, an anonymous editor, no less and no higher authority without any sources. Try to understand WP:V, read letters by letters before smacking somebody has an awful job of writing book. Who do you think you are saying that a book has no value at all? — Indon (reply) — 12:31, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Sorry Morinae, not verifiable means popping up from your head. That's simply said. — Indon (reply) — 16:17, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: TRUTH ABOUT THE ORIGIN OF SILAT/PENCAK

message: Hello guys,
Please read this website to know the true facts about the origin of Silat/Pencak.
This is the link http://www.kpsnusantara.com/rapid/rapid2.htm 
For your information, Silat is Malay/Indonesian's pure martial art.It didn't come from any foreign influences such as Chinese and Indian. It was created from the animal(s) and nature acts.
For example, in Malaysia there is a kind of Silat that is called "Silat Sendeng".
The Silat Sendeng was created based on the acts of a tortoise(kura-kura in Malay).
He is old man. He once appeared on a tv news in Malaysia.
The creator of Silat Sendeng is still alive(the time I watched the news).
This is not a myth. This is a fact directs from the creator of "Silat Sendeng".
One more thing, Silat existed long before the arrival of Islam to Malay Peninsular/Archipelagos.
So the conclusion is Silat or Pencak is originally Malay creation from the animal(s) and nature acts not from Chinese and Indian influences.
Please correct this article.
P/S: Please forgive me if I aggrieved the reader of this discussion site. I didn't mean it.     About the bold, I just using the bold to highlight my points.
Mr. Knows (talk) 05:50, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, if you think you can add to the article, you are welcome to edit it. You can make changes as you see fit, but your edits may be edited mercilessly by others. --Pumpmeup 05:53, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Silat/Pencak Was Originated from Animal(s) and Nature Acts

message: I'm sorry that I've missed the discussion on this subject (could anyone point me to it?) but I don't think I completely understand the reason to create three different pages for (Pencak) Silat... After all, though some styles really differ from each other, most styles are at least slightly alike... Also, some information (the same) occurs in two of the pages (like the weapons etc.) so I'm afraid that I don't see the reason... Chingchuanchiu (talk) 21:31, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Why three articles for the same thing?

message: There are a lot of things missing from this. Angie Y. (talk) 15:08, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Many missing things

message: Is Silat the term used to refer to ALL martial arts form of Malaysia, Indonesia and Brunei?Pwordisony (talk) 23:02, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is Silat?

message: Among other changes, I'm removing the infoboxes from this article and also from pencak silat and silat Melayu. These are all umbrella terms for regional martial arts but infoboxes are meant for specific styles like perisai diri, Silat Cimande, lian padukan, etc. Morinae (talk) 09:31, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clean up 

message: Under the Weapons section, it lists the sarong as one possible weapon used.  Is this the same as the article of clothing?  And if so, how does one go about using it as a weapon?  Or is there a different meaning of the word "sarong" that's implied here?  Or does it just mean that one typically wears a sarong when using the tongkat?  This statement could use some clarification. Lurlock (talk) 14:53, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sarong is a weapon? 

message: Silat also belongs to Singapore Manneuszuker (talk) 23:20, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stop making it looks only for one people 

message: I noticed some editors persistently removing the UNESCO Infobox from the Silat page and would like to know the reasons.
The UNESCO Infobox is just additional verified information from UNESCO and does not change any other existing information on the page.
Please list out the reason for the removal of the Silat UNESCO Infobox when other pages have no issue with having the UNESCO Infobox on the page. Audit2020 (talk) 12:50, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: @Northheavenskyplease response Audit2020 (talk) 03:53, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Silat UNESCO Infobox removal reason