Talk:Otto Lilienthal

message: Entry deleted due to utterly pointless insult to the physical appearance of O. Lilienthal.
--82.82.136.110 18:55, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Headline text 

message: Of course you can use the German biographies (Schwipps, Runge/Lukasch) 
to
give a source. A better primary source is:
church register of "St. Nicolai", Anklam, archives of
Otto-Lilienthal-Museum, accession number A156.
de:Otto-Lilienthal-Museum.
Dr. Bernd Lukasch
Otto-Lilienthal-Museum
www.lilienthal-museum.de
Ellbogenstr. 1, D-17389 Anklam/Germany
Tel./FAX: +49-3971-245500/245580
----- Original Message ----- 
| Ok, are there any biographies you can refer me to that confirm this? You see, this information needs to be sourced for the online encyclopedia wikipedia.
===============
He was Protestant. We have documents from the evangelical church in 
Anklam
in the Museum. Possibly his ancstors came from Sweden, it is not surely
known.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen/kind regards
B. Lukasch
Dr. Bernd Lukasch
Otto-Lilienthal-Museum
www.lilienthal-museum.de
Ellbogenstr. 1, D-17389 Anklam/Germany
Tel./FAX: +49-3971-245500/245580
----- Original Message ----- 
| Was Otto Lilienthal Jewish?
|
| I know theres a lot of confusion on whether he was Jewish or not. Can you please provide me with some sources?
|
| Thanks
Usedup 20:46, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Because of the fact that Lilienthal definitely was not a Jew I would propase to delete the reference "Encyclopaedia Judaica" because it is misleading.OLMuseum (talk) 10:50, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Email to Lilienthal museum

message: He was Protestant. We have documents from the evangelical church in 
Anklam
in the Museum. Possibly his ancstors came from Sweden, it is not surely
known.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen/kind regards
B. Lukasch
Dr. Bernd Lukasch
Otto-Lilienthal-Museum
www.lilienthal-museum.de
Ellbogenstr. 1, D-17389 Anklam/Germany
Tel./FAX: +49-3971-245500/245580
----- Original Message ----- 
| Was Otto Lilienthal Jewish?
|
| I know theres a lot of confusion on whether he was Jewish or not. Can you please provide me with some sources?
|
| Thanks
Usedup 20:46, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Because of the fact that Lilienthal definitely was not a Jew I would propase to delete the reference "Encyclopaedia Judaica" because it is misleading.OLMuseum (talk) 10:50, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: ===

message: This bit should be deleted. It's clearly fiction. Anybody disagree? 83.71.32.173 12:16, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Syndrome of Lilienthal

message: I read that his glider was a biplane, but the photos here don't prove it. Any comments on that?--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 15:54, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: More exactly: He built 3 biplanes in 1895 : Nr.13, Nr.14 and Nr. 15. Nr. 15. Nr. 15 original glider is preserved in Deutsches Museum, Munich. --192.108.125.11 07:15, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Biplane

message: I tried to get to this page by typing in "Lilienthal" and got rejected. I had to go google the guy to learn his first name to find this page. I will admit freely that I do not know how to set up redirects. Can someone create a redirect for "Lilienthal" so that it comes here? A lot of us don't know this guy's first name until we get here, you know. (Yes, I know that only a modern American would complain about having to make the trek all the way over to google and back for information, but redirects help smooth out the process.)
:Typing in Lilienthal takes you to Lilie which is the origin for that name (and other similar ones); under its sub-heading Lilienthal, he is listed, along with several others who share his surname. Does that do allright for you? -Tim Rhymeless  (Er...let's shimmy) 05:46, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: redirects

message: Can we please stick to Wikipedia policies and not misquote WP:RS.  WP:A is one of Wikipedia's two core content policies.  It deprecates the use of primary sources, and says explicitly that "Wikipedia articles should rely on reliable, published secondary sources wherever possible".  WP:RS is only a guideline and is overridden by WP:A; in any case, it only refers to primary, secondary and tertiary sources, and it is incorrect to claim that it says or implies that primary sources are better.  Further, "articles signed by experts in Encyclopaedia Britannica and encyclopedias of similar quality can be regarded as reliable secondary sources". - Runcorn 17:24, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, Runcorn, I never misquoted WP:RS because WP:RS refers to sourcing on wikipedia and not research on subject matter. Primary sources are the best in terms of research because they're not potentially morphed by point of view, but as wikipedia states, sourcing with primary sources shouldn't be done because they can be used based on the perspective of the person doing the referencing. That is why secondary sources are favored. And as you know, there are plenty of secondary sources that support what I've been saying. So I don't know what your point is or how this supports anything on Otto Lilienthal. Usedup 00:56, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please let's stick to Wikipedia policy 

message: I recommend you do not revert as you have done on List of Jewish inventors and List of German Jews without knowing all the facts on TALK:Otto Lilienthal. Had you have have read this page, you'd know there are as many as five official published accounts that say Lilienthal is not Jewish (two of which say directly that he is "erroneously" identified as Jewish, and three which are official biographies). You can verify the first two with directions I gave on TALK:Otto Lilienthal. The biographies are not available unless you can read German and find snippets on the database that the German wikipedia article has here.....but you can actually e-mail the author of one at the Otto Lilienthal museum and "verify" it this way. Either way, your statement that there are no reliable sources to "three?" (which I'm not sure how you derived not having read TALK:Otto Lilienthal) reliable sources is just flat-out wrong. Please do not revert again. Usedup 21:39, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just to let the you two know, I reverted to the last version by Used-up on List of Jewish inventors because Newport hasn't given any reasons why his sources are more reliable and/or verifiable. Siegmund Kaznelson's book is actually a really good source. Anyone with an e-publications account can access part of it, and I believe it's available at most libraries with an international section. As for the others, I never heard of any Jewish Social Studies Journal, but that is not to say it doesn't exist. What is meant by "official biography" should probably also be explained. Truth is, none of these sources on either side are easily "verifiable" so I don't think this should be used as a strong criteria for reverting. --Tellerman
Not true, several of the sources I present ARE easily verifiable. Contacting the author of a book is pretty much as verifiable as you can get. The Jewish Social Studies Journal has a collection: . I once again point anyone who has doubts to google-books. What do you mean "What is meant by Official Biography"? An official biography is a biography that is not self-published and written by a professional. I direct anyone to the external link on the German wikipedia here , to see the numerous publications (in German) written about Otto Lilienthal. I have not been presented with any source from a biographical publication on Lilienthal claiming he was of Jewish descent. Encyclopedia Judaica, the Jewish Chronicle, and books like "A Little Joy; A Little Oy by Marnie Winston" are not professional publications on Otto Lilienthal's life; they are merely reporting another of many supposed "Jewish people" in their writings. Usedup 05:48, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

text: There are two Jewish Chronicle sources.  One is a quote from someone who knew him.  The other reports the specific researches of Selig Brodetsky on Lilienthal; brodetsky is quoted explicitly as saying that Lilienthal was Jewish and it was not just a question of his having a Jewish name.  Quoting a book that has not previously been cited is a red herring.  Note that both these Jewish Chronicle sources predate the Nazis; it was a Nazi claim that he was not Jewish.  And e-mailing an author and citing his response is not verifiable.--20.138.246.89 10:45, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Read User_talk:Newport#Otto_Lilienthal to help clear up your misunderstandings. Usedup 02:44, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

text: You are not incorrect at all. Finally, someone actually reads what I write. I'd like to know the answer to that last question myself. No one appears to want to answer that. Usedup 23:57, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

text: The Jewish Chronicle is one of Britain's oldest national newspapers.  Why does Tellerman say "newspapers (?) like the Jewish Chronicle"?--20.138.246.89 16:51, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copied from talk pages 

message: I believe that the Quote at the top of the page is wrong, because on wikiquote, it said that that is a quote that was made about him, not by him.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.203.105.205 (talk) 18:34, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You are right: See , but Ferber signed the quote with "Otto Lilienthal", himself.OLMuseum (talk) 19:34, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quote 

message: Could someone add this information? Thank you! DBlomgren (talk) 04:40, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  How do you pronounce his last name? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: "Sacrifices must be made!" "must"?! for whom and for what?! (sadomasochism or something?)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.72.101.175 (talk) 23:13, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  a comment