Talk:Kosian

message: Is this term widely considered offensive?  If so, should this article be merged into the not-yet-written Immigration in South Korea? -- Visviva 10:59, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's amusing; I've seen this term on the front page of multiple Korean newspapers.  Just because you don't like this subject doesn't mean it shouldn't be covered here.  I still would be happy with a merger into Immigration in South Korea, but as you can see that article does not yet exist.  I suppose Racial discrimination in South Korea would be another good merge target, but it doesn't exist either.  -- Visviva 01:58, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

text: You can even find it used in English on the Cheong Wa Dae website.  -- Visviva 02:03, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Korean government is insane. They are nothing. They have no idea the social problem. They just want to keep their power at current condition --Drpepper000 03:07, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

text: The term also appears without quotemarks or any other typographic distinction in the Korean Overseas Information Service's Pictorial Korea, Summer 2006 edition: “[T]here are now some 35,000 multicultural Koreans, including 5,000 Amerasians and 30,000 Kosians, or offspring of Korean rural men and their Asian spouses. Amerasians have a relatively longer history in the republic…” – Wikipeditor 13:35, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

message: This is not an attack page by any criterion that I can see, and it is absurd to argue that we "cause racial discrimination" simply by covering a phenomenon which is documented elsewhere.  -- Visviva 01:58, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you want to describe the phenomena, use the other term because using the Korsian causes social problem in Korea (see the reference in main article). --Drpepper000 05:19, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

text: It certainly is widely used in Korea; 코시안 gets more than 48,000 hits on Google:  코시안  Further, the term was coined by mixed-heritage families to refer to themselves, and is still used by various support organizations. In addition, it is commonly used by government and media in a simple descriptive way; I do not see much evidence that this is widely considered an ethnic slur.  The fact that "Kosian" is considered objectionable by some has already been mentioned in the article.  -- Visviva 04:25, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you carefully read the search results of google, the search article criticized the terms and suggested that the term must not be used. Therefore, your search results cannot prove that the term is widely used. If you want to describe the phenomena, you must use different term. --Drpepper000 04:34, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Many do, many don't.  If there were really 48,000 websites criticizing the use of this term, surely that would be notable in itself?  -- Visviva 05:26, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Also, The organization website by Nantional institute of korean language suggest other Korean words, and there is a suggestion how to change the Kosian term. It suggest to use 온누리안Onnurian (even this term is not widely used, but it is used in Jeolla) instead of Kosian. This movement implies that the Kosian has a objetion meaning ot Korean people. --Drpepper000 04:37, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Is it generally considered objectionable by the Asian-Korean community?  That would be a matter for real concern.  However, all of the objections you've shown are from Koreans, and as a foreigner in Korea myself I suspect part of their motivation is the desire to pretend that there are no immigrants here.  -- Visviva 05:29, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Moreover, in the article of Amnesty International, which are organization for human right protection, in south Korean office, Kosian is a word to represent the racial discrimination. Thus, this article name must be changed.--Drpepper000 04:50, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's POV and prescriptive. Wikipedia should be NPOV and descriptive. --Kjoonlee 05:23, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

text: What name do you propose?  It seems to me that "Kosian" is the most suitable title under Wikipedia:Naming conventions; it is commonly used and easy to link.  Onnurian is not commonly used; something like People of mixed Korean and Asian descent would be a travesty.  However, once again I would be happy with a merger into Racial discrimination in South Korea or Immigration in South Korea.  Why don't you be bold and create one of those articles, instead of just complaining?  -- Visviva 05:26, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I concur with Visviva and Kjoonlee.  This article is simply put -- an neutral infomation piece.  It's not much different from 48,000 pieces of information already on the Internet. I fail to see how an neutral and informational encyclopedia entry will cause any type controversy or discrimination (especially in Korea, how is an English article supposed to cause any negative impact on a Korean language speaking society?)--Merkurix 05:28, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Because the word of Korsian is used in Korea with exact pronunication. And there is movement from Human right protection not to use this term, because they are called as Korsian in schools, and are bullied from Korean. --Drpepper000 05:46, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Ok based on the Visviva, I will move to Immigration in South Korea.--Drpepper000 05:35, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I said merge not move.  It's absurd to have this as the sole content of an article on immigration in South Korea, which is a much wider topic.  This should be moved back until there is something to merge it into. -- Visviva 05:40, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Merge complete.  Please help expand the new article. -- Visviva 07:02, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Objection to deletion

message: The entire korean have thoought we all have one ancestor, and we are all same ethnic group. Actually Korean maintain as one state for a thousand years. But, as the society become changing, other nation are immigrated into Korea by marriage, and their children appearance are very different from tranditional Korean appearance. This difference appearance become a social problem as you know (You already cited the newspaper that the term of Kosian must not be used because of racial discrmination in Korea). So, it must not be used the term to discriminate the child from Korea father and the other Asian mother. And this term is not widely used in Korea. If you want to explain the phenomena, you should other terms not to discriminate the native Korean and new immigrated Korean. --Drpepper000 03:03, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It certainly is widely used in Korea; 코시안 gets more than 48,000 hits on Google:  코시안  Further, the term was coined by mixed-heritage families to refer to themselves, and is still used by various support organizations. In addition, it is commonly used by government and media in a simple descriptive way; I do not see much evidence that this is widely considered an ethnic slur.  The fact that "Kosian" is considered objectionable by some has already been mentioned in the article.  -- Visviva 04:25, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you carefully read the search results of google, the search article criticized the terms and suggested that the term must not be used. Therefore, your search results cannot prove that the term is widely used. If you want to describe the phenomena, you must use different term. --Drpepper000 04:34, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Many do, many don't.  If there were really 48,000 websites criticizing the use of this term, surely that would be notable in itself?  -- Visviva 05:26, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Also, The organization website by Nantional institute of korean language suggest other Korean words, and there is a suggestion how to change the Kosian term. It suggest to use 온누리안Onnurian (even this term is not widely used, but it is used in Jeolla) instead of Kosian. This movement implies that the Kosian has a objetion meaning ot Korean people. --Drpepper000 04:37, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Is it generally considered objectionable by the Asian-Korean community?  That would be a matter for real concern.  However, all of the objections you've shown are from Koreans, and as a foreigner in Korea myself I suspect part of their motivation is the desire to pretend that there are no immigrants here.  -- Visviva 05:29, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Moreover, in the article of Amnesty International, which are organization for human right protection, in south Korean office, Kosian is a word to represent the racial discrimination. Thus, this article name must be changed.--Drpepper000 04:50, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's POV and prescriptive. Wikipedia should be NPOV and descriptive. --Kjoonlee 05:23, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

text: What name do you propose?  It seems to me that "Kosian" is the most suitable title under Wikipedia:Naming conventions; it is commonly used and easy to link.  Onnurian is not commonly used; something like People of mixed Korean and Asian descent would be a travesty.  However, once again I would be happy with a merger into Racial discrimination in South Korea or Immigration in South Korea.  Why don't you be bold and create one of those articles, instead of just complaining?  -- Visviva 05:26, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I concur with Visviva and Kjoonlee.  This article is simply put -- an neutral infomation piece.  It's not much different from 48,000 pieces of information already on the Internet. I fail to see how an neutral and informational encyclopedia entry will cause any type controversy or discrimination (especially in Korea, how is an English article supposed to cause any negative impact on a Korean language speaking society?)--Merkurix 05:28, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Because the word of Korsian is used in Korea with exact pronunication. And there is movement from Human right protection not to use this term, because they are called as Korsian in schools, and are bullied from Korean. --Drpepper000 05:46, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Ok based on the Visviva, I will move to Immigration in South Korea.--Drpepper000 05:35, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I said merge not move.  It's absurd to have this as the sole content of an article on immigration in South Korea, which is a much wider topic.  This should be moved back until there is something to merge it into. -- Visviva 05:40, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Merge complete.  Please help expand the new article. -- Visviva 07:02, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Delete

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thread_title:  External links modified