Talk:Nuristanis

message: The article doesnt mention the vibrant Nuristani communities that inhabit the district of Chitral in neighbooring Pakistan where many Nuristani's have settled especially after the Soviet/Russian invasion of Afghanistan in 1979.  The community is a prosperous one that has enourmous economic clout and dominates many aspects of the Bazaar life.
I agree, the Nuristani are integral part of Chitral, Pakistan.  Infact, several regions of Nuristan where unlawfully annexed and were part of Pakistan's Chitral district prior to being attacked by the Afghan King and forcibly converted to Islam.  These regions of Nuristan used to pay tribute to the Mehtar of Chitral. Chitrali's have also begun protesting that these regions illegally occupied by Afghanistan be given back to Pakistan.  Interestingly, Nuristani's are allowed to cross over freely and are welcomed in Chitral district to this day where they are an important community.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.119.48.78 (talk) 16:10, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Nuristani's of Chitral, Pakistan

message: An evil king??----Waxwing slain 15:06, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: question

message: The Wikipedia readers must note that all the material of this article is based on observations from several noted commentators on Kafirs/Nurestanis such as:
1. The Kafirs of Hindukush, 1896,  by  George Scott Robertson, Arthur David McCormick, (Oxford in Asia Historical Reprints) 
2. Afghanistan: its people, its society, its culture (Survey of world cultures), 1962, by Donald Newton Wilber.
3. Tribes of the Hindoo Koosh by John Biddulph (Paperback - Jan 15, 2004)
4.The gates of India: Being an historical narrative by Thomas Hungerford Holdich (Unknown Binding - 1977)
5. The Indian Borderland, 1880-1900 by Thomas Hungerford Holdich (Paperback - April 12, 2001)
6. An account of the Kingdom of Caubul and its dependencies in Persia, Tartary, and India, (comprising a view of the Afghaun nation, and a history of the ... Entdeckungsgeschichte und Geographie Asiens), 1969 Edition, by Mountstuart Elphinstone
7. Proceedings (1869, 1879, 1881, 1884...)... by Royal Geographical Society (Great Britain), Norton Shaw, Francis Galton, William Spottiswoode...
8. The Religions of the Hindukush: The Religion of the Kafirs : The Pre-Islamic Heritage of Afghan Nuristan (The Religions of the Hindukush) by Karl Jettmar (Paperback - Mar 1986)
9. A History of Kafferistan: Socio-economic and Political Conditions of the Kaffers, 1989,  Amar Singh Chohan.
10. etc etc. [Unsigned]
The Bashgeli kafirs & their language By Gottlieb William Leitner
Kafiristan: the Bashgeli Kafirs and their language By Gottlieb William Leitner
The Bashgeli Kafirs & Their Language (1880)
Kafiristan: The Bashgeli Kafirs and Their Language (1880)
Notes on the Bashgalī (Kāfir) Language By John Davidson
Bashgali Dictionary: An Analysis of Colonel J. Davidson's Notes on the Bashgali Language By Sten Konow
The Káfirs of the Hindu-Kush (1900)
Kafiristan (October 24, 1884)
Rajmaan (talk) 22:48, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources for future article expansion

message: I recently studied kom lexicon, thanks to Richard Strand's great site about Nuristan . Nuristani people visually resemble neighbouring persians and tajiks but tend to have more european features (such as bright hair, eyes & fair skin).
But I'm not gonna discuss genetics. I'm more interested in linguistic borrows from non-iranian and non-indic languages. 
Here are some of the words borrowed from turkic languages (such as Uzbek and Turkmen languages):
#Kinship:
#Vov - Grandfather, derived from old-turkic 'Baba' or 'Papa' - "ancestor", "great grandfather". (today, turkic stone statues in Ukrainian and Central Asian steppes are called "stone babas")
#Vâ'i - Grandmother, probably derived from turkic 'apa', 'abi', 'ebe', 'eve' - "grandmother", "aunt" (but now also used as polite adress among Central Asian turkic peoples towards elderly and middle-aged women). (I also should note that first 'a' letter is obsolete in nuristani version which is typical for borrowed turkic words in IE-languages)
#Nâv'o - Grandson, borrowed from turkic word for grandson - 'nəvə' (azeri) and more primitive 'nemere' (kazakh, sounds [v], [b] & [m] are related).
#Sus - sister, probably derived from turkic 'çaç'; 'süs' (chuv.) - "hair". However I must admit that IE word "sister" can be of common (eurasiatic or nostratic) origin with turkic 'çaç'.
#Music:
#l'âalu - song, music; it is said that it's derived from PIE '*lalli' but I doubt that PIE language is reliable enough since IE languages are generally flexive (except few) and very diverse, unlike turkic and finnic languages which are mostly agglutinative and tend to be more 'stable', this why locating more or less primitve version of initial turkic language isn't that problematic than locating common proto-language of slavs or germans. Anyway this word looks like linguistic OOPART since it resembles finnic word "song" - 'laulu', 'laullu', 'lavl', and hungarian "dal" ([l] & [d] are related, probably result of "turkization"). As far as I know, this word is not presented in indo-aryan and germanic languages.
#Animals:
#kuř'i - dog, kuchekk in Baloch, probably borrowed from turkic 'göpek' or 'köpek' - "dog" or tibetan 'khʷyi'; 'gui' (kachin).
#kâcor (or katsor, kajor) - mule, turkic 'qatır' - donkey, mule.
#ź'uk - yak; azeri - sarlıq, yak, qaytağ; uzbek - qo'tos; kazakh - qodas.
#pš'âš - cat, derived from turkic 'müş'; 'mǔsıq' (kaz.); 'pişik' (az.);'kuʃak' (chuv.); 'kóška' (east slav.).
#Speech:
#vâll'â - speak; probably related to estonian 'valjusti' - "aloud".
#viri - word; also can be related to estonian 'vali' - "loud" as well as english "word".
These are just examples. We can explain presence of turkic and sino-tibetan loanwords but can't explain presence of words that resemble uralic equivalents. Only reasonable explanation is that ancestors of finnic peoples could migrate to north-eastern Europe through territory of modern Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan. Presence of finnic words in iranian language is very unusual. If such migration could be in past then it could happen only in prehistoric times.  Iliassh (talk)
:Did you consider the fact that the Indo-Iranian Urheimat is located next to where Uralic languages are/were spoken? Azalea pomp (talk) 16:29, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Relationship with non-IE peoples and languages 

message: I cannot begin to address the amount of fantasy and misinformation that I have found in the Wikipaedia articles on Nuristan.  Most of the people who are contributing to these articles have no first-hand experience with Nuristan, its people, or its languages.  I will not comment on the misguided remarks posted by amateurs on the origins of the Nuristanis or the etymologies of certain words.  But I must warn all that the information on Nuristan posted on the U.S. Naval Postgraduate School website, used as a source for some of the Wikipaedia articles, is egregiously incorrect.  In particular, the chart of Nuristani tribes, prepared for the NPS by Courage Associates at great taxpayer expense, borders on fraudulence.  Readers of these so-called sources should realize that they are getting false information.Richard F. Strand, 174.26.188.83 (talk) 09:09, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Need more details than that. — LlywelynII 01:59, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Goldmine of Misinformation on Nuristan 

message: i think a picture of a little kid is unrealistic, and from my visit there, majority of Nuristan looks like typical southern Asia, dark featured and tanned.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.252.17.164 (talk) 19:19, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unrealistic picture  

message: from my search that population number is the number of all the people living in that region, not of the the natives and specific to Nuristan people descendent  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.252.17.164 (talk) 03:53, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  WRONG population number 

message: No way Nuristanis should have that high R1a percentages if they are a Dardic group. It maybe because they're population is low which attributes to high amounts but i cannot find any other source on their genetics. The only one we have is from Harber but it is not sourced here instead the source used here is from an outdated link talking about the Y chromosome of pathans which does not mention the Y type of nuristanis. Akmal94 (talk) 11:17, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Genetics 

message: which may refer to all Nuristanis or to a subgroup but in any case shouldn't be sitting around with its laundry-list of sources under its long-outdated 19th-century name. — LlywelynII 01:58, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Klbrain (talk) 10:27, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge from [[Siah-Posh Kafirs]]

message: Safed-Posh Kaffirs is another outdated classification that should be merged into the main article. PepperBeast (talk) 02:26, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: PepperBeast (talk) 17:37, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge discussion

message: A discussion is taking place to address the redirect :Kafirism. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 November 17#Kafirism until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  signed, Rosguill talk 22:23, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Kafirism" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: Over 72% have halpogroupe r1a1a, which is pretty sure that they must be genetically closely related to the Slavs. 
https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/r1a1a-conquers-the-worldin-a-few-pulses
77.9.5.240 (talk) 04:23, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nuristanis related to Slavs? 

message: Hi, it is regarding this removal. The source talks about Kata-vari dialect speakers, which may be why it was added. Do "Kata-vari" speakers identify as Nuristani? If yes then it can be re-added, with another better source explicitly mentioning the relation. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 10:35, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Nuristani languages and Nuristani people should not be confused with each other because Nuristanis are ethnic group. That is why source must clearly mention existence of Nuristanis in Chitral, Pakistan. Editorkamran (talk) 10:50, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  This source (page 51) explicitly mentions the presence of Nuristanis in Chitral and the language they speak - Kata-vari dialect. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 12:00, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: That's a reliable source. Information added. Editorkamran (talk) 12:18, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 12:35, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  July 2023