Talk:Rosselló (comarca)

message: As an historical comarca, why is this here rather than at Rosselló (comarca)? That is where 
 refers... -- Jmabel | Talk 02:11, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Since the homonymous county was named Roussillon I was unsure which I should choose. Another case is Alta Cerdanya. Toniher 13:29, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: :Neither of you are getting my point. Let's see. Right now, all 3 of us agree that there are 4 territories clearly defined:
:-The County of Roussillon. (Middle age territories of the Count of Roussillon). Only Roussillon.
:-The Province of Roussillon. ( the french "Ancien Régime" province). Roussillon + Capcir + Vallespir + French Cerdagne + Conflent. (The so-called "Northen Catalonia").
:-The "pays/comarca" of Roussillon. (equivalent territories in present day to the County of Roussillon). Only Roussillon
:-Pyrenées-Orientales. (The french Department). Province of Roussillon + Fennouilledes. (Or "Northern Catalonia" + Fennouilledes)
:Please, let me know if I'm wrong. Now, let's check the disambiguation english page. See Roussillon (disambiguation). We have:
:-Roussillon (1). Which links to the (ancient regime's province) Roussillon territory article. But described as "one of the historical counties of the former Principality of Catalonia, --> This is not correct!!! It should explain it as "the french "Ancien Régime" province equivalent territory, which includes the County of Roussillon territory". All 3 (tile, explanation and content are wrong). This article should be title "roussillon (former province)". The more correct text would be the one in the Roussillon article.Now, if AFTER explaining the late French province catalans want to explain these are ROUGHLY also the territories forming "Northern catalonia", fine. But catalan's vision is not everybody's and it should not prevail or monopolize the article's introduction.
:-Roussillon (2). Which links to the "Middle age County of Roussillon's territories or County of Roussillon's territories". First of all, the title is in catalan (again, it should be in english). It is described in the disambiguation page as a "a Catalonian comarca". This is COMPLETELY FALSE. It is not part of Catalonia, it is part of France. Then, it is explained in the content of the stub as "a(n) historical Catalan comarca of Northern Catalonia, now part of the French Département of Pyrénées-Orientales.". it should explain it as (i.e. The historical territories of the County of Roussillon) like in the french "Comté de Roussillon" wikipage. Please see [], or the spanish "Condado de Rosellón" wikipage. Please see [], or the Catalan "Comtat del Rosselló". Please see []. In english, this article about the late County of Roussillon does not exist. Then, IMHO, the Rosselló page should be titled "County of Roussillon" with an article explaining the late County. If catalans want to include a reference to this county's territory, fine... But in second place, not in first place. THIS WOULD BE THE HISTORY ARTICLE OF THE COUNTY OF ROUSSILLON. (still to be writen)
:Those are the only 2 in english wikipedia. Then if you agree with me, we need one more. ( Roussillon (pays)/Roussillon (comarca)), right?
:This article should be about the present-day territory exactly equal' to the late "County of Roussillon". If Toniher continues to argue that "Roussillon (pays/comarca)" is different geographically-speaking from "County of Roussillon", I DEMAND proofs with MAPS to show the tiniest valley or acre in difference. Not in a single place (e.g internet, encyclopedias) have I found NOTHING.'I DO NOT BELIEVE THEM TO BE DIFFERENT. That said, in ANY way it should be described as Comarques of Catalonia. This territory is NOT part of modern day catalonia nor has the jurisdiction catalan comarques have. there is an article that Toniher refuses to accept, which describes all these territories in France. See Pays (France). In this article, these territories are described as: "the French term pays is not used in the modern sense of "country" but preserves the original meaning of the Latin word from which it was derived, pagus, which designated the territory controlled by a medieval count. The majority of pays are roughly coextensive with the old counties." This is the PERFECT description of what this very article is about. Toniher,I don't care if the catalan comarques are better described in their article than the French pays. Roussillon has any special status for France but "an area whose inhabitants share common geographical, economic, cultural, or social interests". Catalan comarques DO HAVE a jurisdiction that Roussillon LACKS, the same way we cannot describe "El Garraf" or "El Barcelonés" or "La Segarra" as "districts" like in England.
:So, my proposal is to remake everything with a disambiguation page where both "Roussillon and Rosselló" merge. And then 4 pages:
#County of Roussillon. One of the Early Middle Ages Counties to form the Marca Hispanica.
#Roussillon (former province). A French Province before the Revolution, roughly equal to what Catalan people call Northen Catalonia.
#Roussillon (pays). An historical French pays in the department of Pyrenées-Orientales.
#See also: Northern Catalonia
:I would like to make clear, that catalan people are free to include INSIDE THE ARTICLE all the namings in catalan they feel important. But the titles should be in english. This also goes for "Cerdagne (the whole county)" and the "Cerdagnes (both french and spanish)". My vote goes for another disambiguation page where "Cerdagne", "Cerdanya", "Alta Cerdanya", redirect. And then 3 pages:
#Cerdagne. One of the Early Middle Ages Counties to form the Marca Hispanica, now divided between France and Spain.
#French Cerdagne. French half of the bla bla bla
#Spanish Cerdanya. Spanish half of the bla bla bla
:I REALLY think this is the more NEUTRAL and ENCYCLOPEDIC way to solve this problem. Please, let me know what you think of this proposal.
:Regards, Maurice27 22:01, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Roussillon county (comtat del Rosselló) map with historical border changes Toniher 00:48, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal for Roussillon disambiguation