Talk:Hierarchy of the Catholic Church

message: This article makes it very unclear and difficult to discover a system of rank within the church. One can eventually derive it from this overbloated article, but it does remain quite a chore. While the unsummarized, lengthy paragraph form is undoubtedly professional, it is unattractive, and makes it a daunting task to try and discover the system of rank. In addition to all the unnecessary information, this article also needs a condensed list of the level of rank. Beginning with the highest rank and ending with the lowest.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.253.215.137 (talk) 11:11, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, the Catholic Church doesn't really have a "rank" system where there is a clear pecking order, like you'd see in the military. For example, if the "highest ranking" member of the Church in my home state of California, the Cardinal Archbishop of Los Angeles, were to show up at my local parish in Saratoga, California, he would have to ask my bishop, the Bishop of San Jose in California, for permission before he could perform any liturgical function, even though Cardinal Mahony is both a Cardinal and a Metropolitan Archbishop while Bishop McGrath is just a diocesan ordinary. Additionally, there's more than one "chain of command", making it difficult who exactly would "out rank" who. Is a diocesan ordinary higher in rank than a provincial superior of a religious order? Does the cardinal prefect of a curial congregation outrank a cardinal major archbishop? Where exactly does the Bishop of Urgell, who is a head of state, fit into the Church's rank structure? Unfortunately, the Church's vast size and organizational complexity are going to make this type of article inherently unclear to some extent, or overly simplified.Gentgeen (talk) 22:51, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Canon Law gets even murkier than many know. In the case mentioned above, Cardinal Mahony has the right to perform a liturgical function outside his archdiocese and without informing the local ordinary provided it is in his province and it is not the Cathedral. (See Canon 436§3). I should note the right is because he is a Metropolitan, not because he is a Cardinal. It is rare, however, to invoke that right.--Dcheney (talk) 03:03, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: While a metropolitan archbishop might have the "right" to perform a liturgical function in a non-cathedral church of a suffragan see (without informing the latter see's diocesan bishop), it would be considered "poor form" for him to not inform the diocesan bishop of that suffragan diocese in advance, as a courtesy, so the said diocesan bishop doesn't learn from the grapevine that the metropolitan was in a church of his diocese, i.e., without the bishop being aware of such a visit. Being a member of the "college of bishops" assumes a certain collegiality, courtesy, etc. Eagle4000 (talk) 22:58, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think the Canon Law is very specific specially in Canons 349-359 in regards to the functions of the Cardinals. Although the Cardinals can function in two ways, either as a college or as an individual, their function depends upon how the Pope calls upon them. Thus any authority that they have does not come from their position as Cardinals but from the Pope. Which is the reason why they could not be placed in the actual Hierarchy since the function that they perform is either very specific as prescribe by law in a "special manner" or as delegated by the Pope. A good example is when they  are given a function as legates of the Supreme Pontiff as covered by Can 362-366. Just a thought, hope it helps.Kylyne (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 11:35, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  unclear 

message: While the new text regarding the recently announced new structure is entertaining it is factually wrong on several points. However, given that the document which actually creates the new structure has not yet been published, its difficult to provide good sources for the correct information.--Dcheney (talk) 14:32, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Personal Ordinariate(s)

message: This table originally appeared in the "Hierarchy, personnel and institutions" section of Catholic Church.  I have moved it here because this is the primary topic to which it applies, and the article on Catholic Church is too long and requires summary style.  Please help source it if you can.  Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 02:31, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unsourced table 

message: This section of the page has been completely without proper citations for two and a half years now, and there was material added today, again without sources.  I've put  tags where I think a source is needed.  Per Wikipedia guidelines, because this section is not about a living person, I will not remove the material immediately, but this cannot stay without reliable sources forever.  Can anyone give spend some time and properly cite this section?--Msl5046 (talk) 14:40, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Laity 

message: WP:PRIMARY says "Wikipedia articles should be based on reliable, published secondary sources and, to a lesser extent, on tertiary sources." Of course we should use secondary sources first and foremost, if they are available, rather than primary or tertiary sources.  If reliable published secondary sources are not available, then we may and should use reliable published tertiary and, with the proviso that Wikipedia indicates, primary sources.  The proviso that Wikipedia indicates when it explicitly authorizes use of primary sources is: "A primary source may only be used on Wikipedia to make straightforward, descriptive statements of facts that any educated person, with access to the source but without specialist knowledge, will be able to verify are supported by the source."  Unless the editor who added to the article an unspecified objection to its use of primary sources can point to one or more concrete statements in the article that are not covered by that Wikipedia rule, the addition of the tag is unjustified.  Esoglou (talk) 11:16, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: No you must show why not? You are reversing the rule.  Failure to use outside sources will cause the article to fail in the notability area and be deleted.  This article even cites Wikipedia itself which along with Wikinews are not appropriate sources.  Laws, including Cannon Law, themselves are not straight forward and should not be used.  I can have to mark the article for deletion if you prefer not to comply.  You remove of the tag is unjustified.  See the [[Donation of Constantine] on why the Church is not a good source. Spshu (talk) 20:35, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use of primary sources 

message: This image could be quite helpful http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Patriarchs,_Primates,_and_Major_Archbishops.png  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.0.112.152 (talk) 21:08, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed Image

message: The first picture in the article currently shows some (former) Belgian bishops, one of which is mgr. Roger Vangheluwe. He was found guilty of child abuse some years ago. Maybe another picture would be more appropriate?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:2C40:1E0:0:0:0:0:7C1 (talk) 07:13, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture of bishops 

message: This should be listed in the opening paragraph of this article as the Pope is not allowed to 'Resign' and should also be discussed obviously throughout this Wikipedia article. It has been over 700years since the Church tried to do something that severe.
Latin: <(Inanis Sedes)> ; is described in English as 'Empty Seat'  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.48.164.23 (talk) 20:00, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: The correct term is "Sede Vacante" in Latin and there is no doubt about a Pope being able to "resign". Nice try. --Dcheney (talk) 20:44, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inanis Sedes 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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