Talk:Pauline Viardot

message: (Maybe already covered:)
Look into The Price of Genius & menage with Turgenev, with short-story-a-clef "A Month in the Country"(?) documenting it and the servants bringing both dying men's beds onto stair landing so they could embrace before Turgenev left the house to avoid her being alone with a man she wasn't married to once her husband died.
"Never sing for free", illustrated by her insisting on a fee to sing at Chopin's funeral.--Jerzy•t 20:18, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Loose notes 

message: As a feminist, I object to some of the wording in this section:
Shockingly enough, Pauline's appearance, or lack thereof, apparently had no effect on her famed popularity with the masses and men in particular. She was widely pronounced as "strikingly ugly" or "atrociously homely," with dark and crude features, hooded eyes, a receding chin, a wide mouth with a heavy underlip and an H-shaped figure in a time when Italy adored beauty.
"Shockingly enough" and "crude" sound like judgements, not facts; and the word "beauty" at the end also expresses a judgement as to what beauty consists of.
Also, "famed popularity" is redundant.
I suggest rephrasing. Perhaps:
Pauline was widely pronounced as "strikingly ugly" or "atrociously homely." She had dark and coarse features, hooded eyes, a receding chin, a wide mouth with a heavy underlip and an H-shaped figure in a time when Italy adored delicate features and curved figures in women.  Perhaps surprisingly, Pauline's appearance apparently had no effect on her popularity with the public in general and with men in particular.
Changing the sentence order puts "surprisingly" into context. The historical context explains why one might find it surprising that her popularity was undiminished by her looks.
Jessibird 21:32, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Appearance section suggestion 

message: The italicized portion of this sentence -- "After her sister's death, Pauline was assigned to take over as a professional singer, never mind the fact that she had a flawed, second-tier voice and subpar looks" -- is POV (not to mention rather unkind, at least without a citation). Am removing. Dblanchar (talk) 13:40, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Appearance (again) 

message: I added a new section on Compositions, with references to her songs, violin-piano, and her opera and operetta.  I hope that a scholar will add more information and citations on her opera and operetta.  Oconnell usa (talk) 16:27, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Compositions 

message: I've reviewed this article as part of the Composers project review of its B-class articles.  This article is barely B-class (from a composer biography perspective); it is missing a fair amount about her composing (including, as Oconnell notes above, a more comprehensive listing of her compositions).  My detailed review is on the comments page; questions or comments should be left here or my talk page. Magic♪piano 14:17, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Composer project review

message: move to Pauline Viardot. JPG-GR 17:50, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: *Hmm... I am using Grove Music online which simply lists her name as "Pauline Viardot" in the search results and then "Viardot [née García], (Michelle Ferdinande) Pauline" at the actual article. The Oxford Dictionary of Music gives her name as "Pauline Viardot‐García". Both sources include the accent, as does Encyclopedia Britanica. I would support changing it to "Pauline Viardot‐García" per Oxford or simply "Pauline Viardot" per Grove.Nrswanson (talk) 19:00, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks.  How, then, would we account for Grove V's footnote?  I've already included that in the article in the "Usage note".  I suspect this is one of those cases where, in real life, she was referred to as A in one place (a banner for an upcoming opera, for example), as B the next time, as C the next time, and so on (where A, B, C etc are examples of the at least 11 variants I've identified).  Some contexts hyphenated the words Viardot and Garcia (in whatever order), some didn't.  Trying to find the most predominant spelling is probably pointless, because many sites copy from others (and many have already copied WP's current formulation, which places the Garcia before the Viardot, something very few independent sites do; most have it the other way around).  We may have to rely on reference sources we consider authoritative - but even there, they differ among themselves.  I suppose I'd be happy with almost any version that has the Viardot before the Garcia, but Grove's footnote still troubles me in relation to the accent.  --  JackofOz (talk) 21:57, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes it is tricky. Perhaps "Pauline Viardot" would be the best title (it handily avoids using the accented García and the word order issue). We could then have a prose section on her name and the various uses there of.Nrswanson (talk) 22:03, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep.  That neatly sidesteps the issue.  Works for me.  --  JackofOz (talk) 01:13, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm in agreement with the above, but shouldn't the Requested Move be altered (or re-requested, or whatever) before an admin steps in and moves her to Pauline Viardot-Garcia?  (Is it certain that the move can only be done by an admin or could one of us do it?) --GuillaumeTell 22:16, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Requested move to Pauline Viardot-Garcia

message: The memoir Musical Memories by composer Camille Saint-Saëns, now public-domain, contains a chapter on Viardot including an illustration of her in her later years. The book is available as Project Gutenberg etext #16459. This could be a useful source, and the illustration might be a good addition to the article.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Magnificat (talk • contribs) 13:14, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photograph of the subject 

message: Substituted at 02:31, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

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