Talk:Minnesota/Archive 1

message: I changed the word "populus" to "populous."  I'm not sure if "populus" was a typo or not.  The word "populus" is a latin word that can mean "people," and it is also a genus (taxonomy).  The word "populous" means "having a large population," which is probably what the writer meant. Hildenja 05:18, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  First Paragraph 

message: How is it that 42.5 percent of the population is of Hispanic origin, yet it says that German ancestry accounts for 30 some odd percent, accounting for the highest ancestry?
* I think someone made an editing mistake, or a typo or something.  I looked up the figures from the 2004 Census and put them into the article, so it should be up to date.  --Elkman - (Elkspeak) 18:14, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Demographics 

message: There are hundreds of Wikipedia articles about towns in Minnesota that haven't been updated since 2003 began. Can anyone suggest putting Media Wiki boxes at the bottom of the town articles?? 66.32.74.97 01:27, 29 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: What are these "Media Wiki boxes" you speak of?--Daveswagon 01:43, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Towns in Minnesota 

message: For a source on the origin of the state's name, see http://mrbdc.mnsu.edu/mnbasin/fact_sheets/pn_mr.html
: Hrm this English to Lakota dictionary  says that Mni Sota means 'Clear water'. I will continue to search for sources. -Ravedave 22:05, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  The two differing explanations for the name of Minnesota comes from two different Dakota wording: M'ni-sá-te (water of sky-blue) and M'ni-sota (tinted/clouded/translucent water).  The folk etmology of "Minnesota" from the Ojibwe is Minisooding (at the [place of] Balm-of-Gilead). CJLippert 03:07, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name origin 

message: It says 225,000 km² in the box and 79,000 m² in the geography section. Widely different figures. The first one looks correct, SqueakBox 20:15, July 11, 2005 (UTC)
:I assume the 2nd figure is supposed to be 79,000 mi², which is probably the land area of the state in square miles. Tomer TALK 05:10, July 12, 2005 (UTC)
::Why are the units on this page in metric?  Did Minnesota become part of Canada whilst I was visiting my parents in Wisconsin?  In this country, we use imperial units.  This is not a freaking science page.--Globe199 06:23, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Area

message: The related articles American Empire, History of Minnesota, National Football League and Space program of the United States have been listed to be improved on Wikipedia:This week's improvement drive. To support one of these articles you can add your vote there. Also, Rodgers and Hammerstein is nominated at the Biography Collaboration. --Fenice 07:15, 9 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Speaking of drive, anyway to add a noting about how inattentive Minnesotans tend to get at traffic lights? Tboger 02:08, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Find a reputatble source for it and contact me on my talk page and Ill find a spot for it.False Prophet 03:27, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's because everyone in Minnesota is already where they want to be.Andercee 07:55, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Improvement Drive

message: I don't know how long religon stats have been listed here but perhaps at somepoint we get updated stats we can split out Not religious/Agnostic  because  not religious is not necessary the same thing as agnostic Smith03 20:17, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Not religious/Agnostic – 15%

message: *Special:Whatlinkshere/List_of_Protestantism_by_US_State
It is POV to selectively list Protestantism and not also link, for example List of Catholicism by US State or List of Buddhism by US State.  brenneman(t)(c) 10:22, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [[List of Protestantism by US State]]

message: Is anyone interested in a Minnesota WikiProject?  Please sign up below.  If the list gets to 10 and nobody beats me to it, I'll start the Project for you...  See, for example, the incredibly awesome WP:WPWI ... Tomertalk 07:16, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Minnesota]] 

message: The Good article nomination for  has failed    
:There are no references. Tarret 11:54, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Wikipedia:Good articles|Good Article]] [[Wikipedia:Good articles/Nominations|nomination]] has failed 

message: (copied from User talk:Ravedave)
One thing I've been thinking is that we should make an assessment of the article as it currently is, then propose a list of areas that should be expanded or improved.  I'm taking a cursory glance at the article and I can see that the history section needs to be vastly expanded (does the history of Minnesota really stop at 1861?), the transportation section could use some expansion, and the "Notable people and groups" section should mention at least a few of the most important people from the state.  (Hubert Humphrey, Walter Mondale, and Paul Wellstone spring to mind, as an example.)  I think we should also take a look at other state articles that have reached Featured Article status and see what we can learn from them.  Maybe a peer review of the existing article would help to identify what needs to be expanded -- or any areas that are too detailed as is.  --Elkman 15:50, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The article is currently in the queue to be a "good article", so we'll see how that goes. If we add too much info to the minnesota page, we can always create new pages and stub the section out, so no worries there. Unbelivably there is no state featured article, I was amazed when I found that out.  Massachusetts seems to be the best one I could find. The Britannica article is really what we should be striving for, its very good -Ravedave 16:17, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Working on FA status 

message: The "History" section needs a lot of work.  Right now, it appears to end when Minnesota became a state.  I think at least a few things have happened since then.
The existing history section should mention a little more about how the Ojibwe and Dakota Indians moved throughout the territory (i.e. Ojibwe coming in from the east, while the Dakota moved westward to the plains).  It should also mention the founding of Fort Snelling and its importance to the territory, as well as the various land cessations.
I'm considering the following as an outline for the history section after Minnesota became a state:
* Immigration (from countries like Ireland, Germany, Sweden, and Norway, among others)
* Early development of Minneapolis, St. Anthony, and St. Paul
* Impact of the Civil War (including Dred Scott, et al)
** This would be good to expand, the 1st Minnesota was one of the first regiments to organize after the Civil War began and was a famous participant in the Battle of Gettsyburg, including Pickett's Charge - Meersan 16:23, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, here's a history of Minnesota from Minnesota State University Mankato.  --Elkman 21:15, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll bite.  I like the proposal, but think it should be on the History of Minnesota page.  That page needs work anyway.  Then distill it down for a short summary here.   Kablammo 00:21, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.  I don't want the history section to get too long, but I don't want to miss any salient points either.  I'm thinking I'll finish it up as far as a general overview goes, then distill it down to a size that doesn't overwhelm the rest of the article.  I doubt that any mention of a middlings purifier really belongs in the main Minnesota article, for example, but it should at least say that Minneapolis led in the flour industry.  --Elkman - (Elkspeak) 18:21, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

text: A couple of other points maybe worth mentioning on the history page:  ag research and Norman Borlaug's role in the Green Revolution; and medical/ biomedical research, industry and care, including the pioneering work at U of M in Twin Cities, growth of biomedical companies, and Mayo Clinc.  I'll add mention of some of this to the principal article. Kablammo 18:36, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  State history 

message: The purpose of this straw poll is to decide wether to include the University of Minnesota Golden Gophers under a college]] section,, or weather to keep all colleges out of the article.
Please sign your name using four tildes (~~~~) under the position you support, preferably adding a brief comment. If you are happy with more than one possibility, you may wish to sign your names to more than one place. Extended commentary should be placed below, in the section marked "Discussion", though brief commentary can be interspersed.
===Support===
*False Prophet 20:03, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Awsome, sounds great! -Ravedave 03:00, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Straw Poll

message: *False Prophet 20:03, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Support

message: *Ravedave What does the conference have to do with it? To keep it NPOV if one college is included, all of them should be. This article is about Minnesota not Minneapolis. 
*Hraefen Talk 21:54, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Oppose

message: *Is there some kind of all-encompassing page concerning Minnesota college sports?  Maybe something like Minnesota college sports or the like?  If we could build a page like that with short write-ups for all the qualifying schools (whatever that would be) and give the appropriate links, we could then just have one link on Minnesota to that all-encompassing page that would take up virtually no room at all and would not inherently favor any one school over another.  do any other U.S states have anything similar?  --Hraefen Talk 21:54, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Awsome, sounds great! -Ravedave 03:00, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussion/split 

message: Well-balanced article, that is easy to read. It would need a splitting because of it's length and also some details don't really pertain to Minnesota but could be adopted by subarticles (especially the Geography or Sports section). It would need further referencing, especially for more controversial subjects. Lincher 02:29, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Woo hoo! Good job everyone! FA is the next stop! -Ravedave 03:45, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: GA passed

message: I think the intro could benefit by losing some of the historical, demographic and political detail already well-handled in the body of the article, and adding a brief mention of its natural/outdoor features, for which the state is known. I'd be happy to do it, but as I am proposing deletions I wanted to see if there were any objections first.  Kablammo 12:54, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I am the one who added most of the header though User:Meersan wrote most of it. Go ahead and do whatever you want to it, just make sure it stays an overview. We should make sure it hits the most important MN highlights. I agree on the sections to be improved. I looked all over for "state rankings" in google but didnt come up with much so it makes it hard to add any sections on how "good" the state is. I know there are articles out there, I just couldn't find them. I'll see what I can find next week. Also thanks again for the excellent copy editing.  -Ravedave 14:32, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: StateMaster is a good source for a lot of this sort of stuff. — Jonathan Kovaciny (talk|contribs) 17:34, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intro Changes; other changes 

message: We need citation to an outside reference for the religious affiliation statistics.  In searching for it I came across a source with somewhat different statistics.  http://www.beliefnet.com/politics/religiousaffiliation.html   If we can't find the source for the present table I will replace it with info derived from this source.  It gives a little more detail non non-Christian denominations, but has no breakdowns within the categories of mainline and evangelical Protestant churches.
:The census bureau doesn't collect religious information . Of the sources listed there I got 2 ok results  and . I would think that both are of a dubious nature (as well as your link) due to being funded by private parties. I believe that anything more specific than "most minnesotans are christian" should probably be removed from the article. -Ravedave 07:02, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree that we should use the CUNY study. The current religious section was added here by User:158.111.137.162, here are their other edits, of which 3 are adding religious info to state articles. I plan on adding a cite needed to the other states sections. -Ravedave 15:38, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Change made.  Thanks for unscrambling the citation.  Kablammo 18:30, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Religion 

message: Does the category "Minnesota Lists" make sense? There are few random lists in :category:Minnesota and it would be a nice grouping. -Ravedave 03:52, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Durr.. there is one...-Ravedave 03:52, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lists 

message: I have a problem with this paragraph from the Culture section:
:Modern immigrants have come from all over the world in recent decades, with Hmong, Somali, Vietnamese, Indians, Middle Easterners, and the former Soviet bloc all being well-represented. Some Chinese and Japanese have had long presences in the state as well. Mexican and Hispanic immigrants are a growing segment, the Latino population of Minnesota is expected to triple over the next 30 years [30]. Many modern immigrants are attracted by the state's historically strong commitments toward education and social services and many come sponsored and assisted by congregations committed to service and social justice.
This paragraph contains lots of good demographic information but little to nothing on culture. Saying that there are Hmong or Somali or Chinese people in Minnesota doesn't explain any more about culture than saying that there are "White people" or "Americans" in Minnesota. Pointing to examples of Muslim garb, foreign language, traditional foods, etc that have come with these people would tie into culture, but the paragraph as it is does not accomplish this.--Daveswagon 06:07, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, and have deleted this paragraph and integrated most of the information into the Race and Ancestry subsection of Demographics. Kablammo 18:58, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uniformative culture paragraph 

message: Thanks to everyone working towards getting Minnesota to FA status. We have come quite far in the last month but still have a long ways to go. I think it will be pretty badass being the 1st state to FA status. If you see anyone editing MN related articles let them know what we are doing, the more the merrier. -Ravedave 06:57, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thank You! 

message: I propose to overwrite History of Minnesota with the current history section from Minnesota, and the History section in Minnesota is shortened. The current history article has absolutly no flow whatsoever, and the history section of Minnesota is too long. -Ravedave 22:45, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was WP:BOLD and did it. The summary is from the history article and pretty much sucks. -Ravedave 04:43, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  History 

message: There is talk of a wikiproject minnesota meetup. See details here: Wikipedia talk:Meetup/Minneapolis -Ravedave (help name my baby) 00:10, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Meetup 

message: See here
I removed this section: 
After its rivers and lakes, Minnesota's most prominent physical feature is the Iron Range, a range of low mountains that crosses the northeastern part of the state. The Iron Range is so named because its iron ore deposits were among the largest in the country when it was discovered in the late 1800s. Although the high-grade iron ore was mostly mined out during World War II, taconite is still mined across the range.
The information needs to be worked back into the article without the mention of being a mountain range. The web does not provide much help as far as mountains go. Supposedly the Laurentian_mountains crosses the state, but there is little information about it on the web.  Maybe it should be worded that the Canadian Shield is the most prominent physical feature after lakes and rivers...
-Ravedave 05:19, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Iron Range is not a mountain range 

message: The USGS probably has some information that can be added to the Geographic secton. -  I'll see what I can do tonight. -Ravedave 17:45, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good info source 

message: We may be able to steal some info from Minneapolis-St._Paul for the Minnesota page. It looks like it had a pretty good writer sometime in the past. -Ravedave 15:51, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm just going to list out some other articles worth reading for info/ideas: :Category:Companies_based_in_Minnesota, Minneapolis, Media_in_the_Twin_Cities  - Ravedave 18:42, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article with good info 

message: I am attempting to slightly change the stlye of the article. Currently the article is very heavy on bare facts, which while interesting to analyze are boring to read. I have begun to add summaries for statistics pointing out trends such as majorities. I am also moving facts to the ends of sections where applicable so the flow is more like: Intro - description - facts to back up description. I am also trying to bring down the complexity level of sentances where possible. I don't mean that I am for 'dumbing them down' to 1st grade level. I am just attempting to use clearer language and breaking up run-on sentences, and long sentences that take up too much working memory where possible. -Ravedave 05:22, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Style 

message: I removed this paragraph:
Native Americans have a moderate presence in Minnesota, and some tribes operate casinos which have been said to be among the most profitable in the country. The earliest European exploration and settlement was by the French, and settlement from Scandinavian countries along with Germany followed. The Métis people, a mixed French and Native American culture, were a presence in the early state and territorial days, but largely moved north into Canada. Minnesota is not strongly associated with any particular food, though in recent years dishes like wild rice sausage have come from the state.
It was randomly placed in Pop culture and I belive it contributed little. If someone would like to fold it into the article or re-place it back in go ahead. -Ravedave 06:28, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed paragraph 

message: The statement in the table that English is the state's official language has been deleted.  It was contrary to other resources (in Wikipedia and elsewhere, including one advocacy group for official status) which state that Minnesota has no official language.  See Languages in the United States; Official English movement; []. Kablammo 14:32, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Suggestion: Add "De Facto: English" like on the Lousiana article. -Ravedave (help name my baby) 15:18, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Official Language 

message: User:Sampanning removed: "Minnesota's northern forest has been nearly completely logged at one time or another leaving only a few patches of old growth forest, but regrowth keeps large portions of the state forested,"  in favor of a sentence about species.  If the species statement is true, it can stay, but I think the original statement is true and important too. Appraiser 14:31, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The orig statement is true. I belive I may have added it, or at least verified it. See the lost fourty section  in Chippewa_National_Forest. The lost fourty is special becuase it is one of the few unlogged areas in minnesota. I ended up removing, modifying, or ing several of that users additions. That user then went on to vandalize the iowa article. If someone else could also check his additons/changes it would be appreciated. -Ravedave (help name my baby) 18:59, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference to logging 

message: Motivated by the needed citations I removed the few sentences on Minnesota being the 2nd coldest state.  I did some searching and found the following:
* In Barrow, Alaska on the Arctic Ocean, the annual average temperature is 10.4 degrees. Juneau, Alaska, at the southern end of the state, has an annual average temperature of 41.5 degrees. A couple of places that are just as cold or colder than Juneau on an annual basis in other states include Alamosa, Colo. 40.8 degrees, and Grand Forks, N.D., 40.3 degrees. In other words, parts of Colorado and North Dakota, and also some other states, are as cold as part of Alaska. This is at least part of the reason why no one works out average temperatures for states. If anyone has ever calculated state-wide weather averages, I've never come across it in more than 20 years of writing about weather.  (http://www.usatoday.com/weather/resources/askjack/2003-07-31-answers-coldest-states_x.htm)
If anyone can find something that contradicts this then go with it.
:I changed the numbers in the snowfall section.  I could find any data to suggest the nubmers in the article were even close to being true, so I'm assuming that they were listed at centimeters instead of inches.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Gopher backer (talk • contribs) 
::Some incorrect stuff was added September 30 by a new contributor; the entries probably should have been reverted. That contributor went on to make some unique edits to Iowa; fortunately our neighbors to the south have not retaliated.  Given that contributor's history we should not assume that his edits are accurate.  Kablammo 20:42, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Climate 

message: I don't trust the refernce used for the Alaska lake count and it doesn't mention size. can anyone find a better one? -Ravedave (help name my baby) 02:07, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We should lose the comparison entirely.  The former text made no claim that Minnesota had the most lakes, nor did it draw a comparision with any other states.  To add such a comparision here is superfluous, particularly given differences in definition (what size must body of water be before it is a "lake"?).  The article is long enough and does not benefit by this detour.  If some want to do a separate article ranking states by number of lakes, let them do so, but lets keep this article concise.  Kablammo 12:53, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Good idea, I looked into it as well and wikipedia contradicts itself also. If anyone can answer: Which tine of a fork is the main tine? Then go ahead and re-add it :) -Ravedave (help name my baby) 20:38, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lakes and Rivers