Talk:Delicatessen

message: Delikatessen does not mean "delicate food".
This could be an erroneous interpretation from "delikat"(adj.) + "Essen" (n., something to eat) which is correctly "delikates Essen".
Yet "Delikatessen" simply is the plural of "Delikatesse" (delicacy).
Given the existence of a proper English version of the word it was never quite plain to me why the German word is used for some type of food stores (?) in the US. (Presumably because it used to be written on the front of such stores run by German descendants at some time in the past - spelled with latinic "c" which makes the word appear even more 'delicate' to German speakers -, but that's no reason not to turn to "delicacies", which is the very same word with the English plural)
As a native German speaker I would simply expect a high class grocery store when entering a "Delicatessen" shop.
I don't know where it would fit in, but I've encountered a related use of the word "Delicatess". In the early 20th C. (I don't have the date) a sausage company in NY City advertized in magazines : "A Delicatess Dinner, with Gomprecht's Famous Sausages".  As I recall they offered a mail-order package that would contain sausages, condiments, and some other fairly non-perishable foodstuffs like crackers to make a dinner for two. Saxophobia 03:22, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Etymology

message: Re.:
:"The largest delicatessen should not begin to approach the floor space of the smallest market."
Can other readers confirm this?  I would guess that this may be true of delicatessens in Manhattan, where space is at a great premium, but delis in more spacious areas can be large.  Should we delete, or modify, this sentence?  Opus33 20:25, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, Cogibyte.  I put in a change to reflect variability across areas.  In my city some of the delis are pretty big--proud holdovers from the 50's--probably not quite the real thing but an institution in their own right.  Cheers, Opus33 03:19, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Size

message: *Someone added a paean to his favorite deli, in a location where it didn't fit very well.  I've started a new section to accommodate these paeans; please go ahead and put in your favorites.  I recommend inclusion only of delis that are famous local institutions; note that Katz's and Canter's already had their own Wikipedia articles.  
*I've moved the Canada section to come after Germany, where it will make more sense.
*I lightly trimmed back the discussion of German grammar, which was more than was needed.
:Opus33 15:52, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Recent changes

message: I came to this article looking for the regional differences between american delicatessens.  For instance: what's the difference between a California-style deli and a New York style deli?
:Wait, I know this one. Is it that California-style delis all say "Subway" or "Quiznos" on the front? :) Kafziel Talk 18:39, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Types of delicatessen 

message: The claim of the German origin of the word is not supported by any evidence. Could we have at least one source? Delicatessen is a word in the Dutch language, and not in the German language so it doesn't seem very convincing. Piet | Talk 12:23, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Isn't the "eat" suffix -essen part unintentional? If you take the French word délicatesse and make a German plural form out of it, it would become délicatessen, non? - Tournesol 12:07, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources 

message: This list is a mess. There's no "quality control" on it and no referencing. I'm almost inclined to say the whole list should be zapped, since I can't see how "famous" can ever be NPOV. 86.149.2.16 02:37, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "List of famous delicatessens" 

message: No one in Europe would describe Subway as a delicatessen.  To us a delicatessen is somewhere you go to buy high quality ingredients such as salame, charcuterie, olives, spices, herbs, speciality breads etc as well as ready-made dishes and salads.  Most delis in the UK, but not all, will prepare sandwiches or baguettes to eat in or take-away.  If Subway is really an example of "an american style deli" then God Help America.  Saintmesmin (talk) 11:42, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Europe 

message: to reduce the content of animal material but remain consumer preferences???  I believe that the research needs to be conducted through sensory evaluations--165.228.147.130 (talk) 02:37, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Can deli food be forcified with meat analogue.... 

message: For those who want a source for the etymology of the word there is this:
:delicatessen  
:1889, Amer.Eng. borrowing from Ger. delikatessen, pl. of delikatesse "a delicacy, fine food," from Fr. delicatesse (1564), from delicat "fine," from L. delicatus (see delicate). Shortened form deli first recorded 1954. For souce go to  and type in delikatessen
Norvo (talk) 04:40, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etymology 

message: I was just wondering why the page describing delicatessen pops up for the subject term Delicacy. Although the meanings of the terms overlap, I would venture to say that in common usage, most people understand delicatessen to be a shop that sells sandwiches, lunchmeats and ready to eat food products, where as a delicacy is often used to describe any food that some would determine as exquisite (even if others describe it as repulsive) due to its rareness, expense or the skill required to make or obtain it (aka, hákarl, haggis, Casu marzu.)
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/delicacy
(2: something pleasing to eat that is considered rare or luxurious <considered caviar a delicacy.>)
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/delicatessen
(2: singular, plural delicatessens  [delicatessen (store)]  : a store where delicatessen are sold)
Is there a list page of various pages describing delicacies of the world according to the dictionary definition, as opposed to sandwiches and prepared food?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 5amuel (talk • contribs) 20:32, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Just spotted this issue myself. Needs fixed. For everyone I know, the terms don't even overlap. A delicacy is thought of as an exotic food specific to an area (ie. probably not in your local deli, or only in your local deli as part of a festival or etc).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.83.118.230 (talk) 13:42, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Delicacy vs. Delicatessen 

message: The Europe section comes first, but keeps referencing US-style delis, which aren't mentioned until a couple screens later. This is counterintuitive and should be fixed, but I'm sure there's some obnoxious wikipedia politics about what order regional/national sections go in or whatever, so I'm not gonna bother.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.102.213.177 (talk) 17:07, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section Ordering 

message: The history section is missing. I'm not sure I'm interested enough to add it, but maybe somebody already knows enough to get a good start on it. Alrich44 (talk) 22:24, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  History 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This article, and as I’ve tried to improve it, is about a unique historic and ethnic subject having not only to do with American culture, but European culture too.  As this is the American WP, IMHO, I believe its main focus should be centered on here, not other countries and its history, affects, etc., on same. Thanks. Picomtn (talk) 14:08, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't understand this comment. Yes, as you say, the topic has to do not only with American culture especially since it originated elsewhere a long time ago. Why then do you then say it should be centred on "here"? By "here" do you mean America? (North America or both Americas?) I might have misunderstood what you mean but the two sentences seem contradictory. Furthermmore, it is not the "American" WP; it is the English-language Wikipedia, so it serves an English-speaking audience with content from everywhere. It tries to accommodate the long reach of history and culture and cannot usefully restrict itself to a couple of hundred years in part of one continent. Whiteghost.ink (talk) 14:18, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Issues for improvement 

message: Hi Whiteghost.ink There are many reasons I agree with your deletion of the notable delicatessen sections, however, without you’re exactly stating your reason(s) for doing so, and as no discussion has been had regarding this issue, let alone a consensus being reached, I’ve reverted it for now.  Thanks. Picomtn (talk) 11:26, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry I did not seek consensus - was just being WP:Bold and tried to give a clear reason in the edit summary. Having a list of "notable" delicatessens will overwhelm this article both in terms of quantity and quality. it would be hard to know what makes them notable and there would be a temptation to add any shop that had bothered to make an article about itself, thereby becoming as I suggested, merely a list of commercial premises. I think it would be better to try to get a comprehensive, clear, informative article about the idea, origins, spread, variety and appeal of delicatessens, rather than drowning that content in a fairly random list of shops. Whiteghost.ink (talk) 14:25, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

text: I went ahead and performed this. If anyone objects, they can discuss here. The list article was also expanded to include additional content that was not in this article. North America1000 23:09, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  Good move! That will help this article to stay focussed. It might help to put this new list article into a table form before it too gets completely out of hand. A model might be something like other list tables or this List of classical music competitions which I have tried to neaten up because people kept adding repeat unreferenced entries, apparently for the purpose of advertising. A list of delicatessens might soon start to look like a kind of commercial directory. There are also relevant categories such as "Category:Jewish Delicatessens" that can be added to the List article. Whiteghost.ink (talk) 23:36, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: No objections at all and I agree with the assessments of both  and  in making this substantive change. Thanks. Picomtn (talk) 12:40, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Consensus before deletion 

message: Substituted at 13:09, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I find very inappropriate the introduction picture labeled "an array of meats and cheeses at an Italian delicatessen in Rome" because that's certainly not a "delicatessen": that's a very typical "salumeria" counter that can be found in any Italian supermarket. Delicatessen-like stores are almost unknown in Italy, and the Italian "salumeria" doesn't sell  "fine, unusual or foreign prepared foods": it sells Italian cheese and cold cuts. Especially in the past in Italy we had stores that sold "fine, unusual or foreign prepared foods" but they never really caught on (an example was the historic Paissa in Turin, now closed); a contemporary example could be Eataly, still very far from a delicatessen.
So IMHO also this paragraph should be removed or extensively rephrased: "In Italy, the  deli can be called gastronomia, negozio di specialità gastronomiche, bottega alimentare and more recently salumeria". --TheLoneTraveller (talk) 10:43, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Delicatessen in Italy 

message: The etymology section mentions that "delicatessen" in German originated from "délicatesse" in French, which itself is from "delicatezza." Unless there's something I'm not aware of going on, "-esse" in French and "-ezza" in Italian do not make sense unless they were themselves loanwords from German. The word for food in German is Essen. French and Italian do not have words for eating or food that look anything like "essen." Tubbydoorway (talk) 23:08, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Potential Issue in Etymology 

message: The section about differences in different countries starts by saying that Australia still uses the European meaning, and in Canada, both meanings are used. However, nowhere in the article up to this point did it make it clear to me that there are multiple definitions. It wasn't until I got to the bit at the very bottom of the article where it says that in America a delicatessen is a restaurant that I began to understand. The two definitions need to be defined earlier on, before they are referenced, or else references to them need to be removed. Flock of words (talk) 22:24, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article references multiple meanings without giving them