Talk:Ziyarat

message: I think ziyarat has a wider significance than just prophets and companions. I believe that the term is also used for Shi'a pilgrimages to graves of Fatima, all the imams, Zaynab, etc. Graves of pirs or Sufi saints are also the object of pilgrimage. There's a lot of material that could be brought in here. I can get cites from 19th century travel books that describe extremely primitive pilgrimage sites in places like Yemen or Baluchistan, where the grave may just be marked by a circle of stones, and  where there's a tree or a sort of wooden stand for offerings -- strips of cloth torn off and knotted to the tree or stand. 
But before I start doing that, I'd like to hear from other editors. I believe I'm using ziyarat correctly, but I could be wrong. Another term may be used for pilgrimages to the graves of pirs. Zora 09:05, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, the term is also used for Shia pilgrimages to graves. Just to be clear, we are using the term Ziyarat for 'Islamic visits', aren't we ? MP   (talk) 12:16, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Definition of Ziyarat

message: I rewrote the article extensively. It still lacks references -- and pictures. Also, we need a description of exactly what one DOES on ziyarat. I can't write it, because I don't know! Zora 10:41, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Major revision 

message: I merged the ziyaret and ziyarat articles and rewrote. The question of terminology has yet to be settled. Editors who actually speak any of the languages involved are invited to correct or add items. Zora 01:59, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merged articles 

message: To make a gallery, we need more than one pic per country. At present only India and Iran are such. We need more pics from other places.--Zereshk 00:27, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: gallery instated

message: Quite a few editors have taken exception to the "controversy" section, trying to remove anything that would reflect negatively on Wahhabis or Salafis. I and others have restored the material. 
I just edited it to say that sometimes Wahhabis and Salafis have used political power to destroy shrines and prevent ziyarat. So it isn't a blanket statement any longer. It might help prevent further attempts at censorship if we actually gave a list, with good references, of Wahhabi/Salafi initiatives of this sort. If there are Salafi editors reading this who think that Salafism does NOT mean using force to prevent other Muslims from doing ziyarat, then it would be helpful if we could have some quotes (referenced and translated) from Salafi authorities decrying the destruction of shrines and interference with other Muslims' faith. If there is a debate within the Salafi world on the use of force and political power, let's document it here. Zora 02:51, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Controversy section 

message: Truthspreader, you need to explain on the talk page why you disagree so violently with ziyarat as "poor man's hajj." You can't just slap up a notice and walk away. I'm surprised by your reaction, since I read that bit re "poor man's hajj" many places. I can't figure out what upsets you about the reporting. Is it that you don't think anyone ever believed that ziyarat could replace the hajj? 
Opiner, I don't think that there's anything POV about describing Muhammad as a prophet in lowercase. He was accepted as such by his followers. If the Hebrew prophets can be described as prophets (lower-case) so can Muhammad. It's just Prophet that has the appearance of piety and that we try not to use in WP. Zora 07:36, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aargh, sorry, hit wrong key when editing summary 

message: I believe that my reason for removing the sites is strongly based in the What Wikipedia is not policy.  WP:NOTDIRECTORY says articles are not "Lists or repositories of loosely associated topics".  WP:NOTTRAVEL says articles are not "Travel guides".  WP:INDISCRIMINATE says articles are not "Excessive listings of statistics".  I think the list of sites falls partially into a number of these items, and so I believe the lists should be removed. —<B>Torchiest</B> talkedits 16:59, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Comment - a separate list needs to be created  see - List of ziyarat sites.  Any issues with context of the list can be take then to that list, rather than this article which is sufficiently stand alone and separate from the list and a good intro re the issues surrounding ziyarat. SatuSuro 10:19, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removing list of sites 

message: It's rather clear based both on the article content and many of the comments here that some editors have taken it upon themselves to use this article as a soapbox to criticize the salafist movement and meld the subsections for Sunni and Sufi viewpoints together. Needless to say, this behavior is not encyclopedic and shouldn't be tolerated. MezzoMezzo (talk) 08:59, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intertion of pro-Sufi/anti-Salafi POV 

message: ArmindenArminden (talk) 07:35, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  If not strictly Sufi habit, why tagged "Sufism and Tariqat"? 

message: I have rewritten the Sunni section of this article as it was reliant almost exclusively on primary sources. The new material is based on the following secondary sources:
* Diem, Werner; Schöller, Marco (2004-01-01). The Living and the Dead in Islam: Indices. Otto Harrassowitz Verlag. ISBN 9783447050838
* Zargar, Cameron (2014). The Hanbali and Wahhabi Schools of Thought As Observed Through the Case of Ziyārah. The Ohio State University
* Rapoport, Yossef; Ahmed, Shahab (2010-01-01). Ibn Taymiyya and His Times. Oxford University Press. ISBN 9780195478341.
I intend to add to this in the near future. MontyKind (talk) 11:33, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rewrite