Talk:Who is a Jew?/Archive 1

message: Based on the previous edit of "ANTHONY NOVELLI", I belive this page should be protected from vandalism. Almighty Rajah 20:09, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Vandalism

message: Given that Karaites and Beta Israel are listed among Jewish denominations elsewhere in these pages, shouldn't we have a section on their views on the subject? I'm having trouble getting sources on the latter's opinions. As for Karaites - some online sources (incl. Karaite sources) state they go patrilineally, whereas some others state that they require both the father and the mother to be Jewish. I've read it somewhere in an academic source that the former is the case, but I do not have a reference (though I remember there was a reference to a book or article titled "Karaite halakha", which I did not procure at the time). Volunteers? Hasdrubal 23:52, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Karaites 

message: From a historical perspective, Jews in Europe have existed under perilous conditions where their communities have exhibited mass amounts of expulsion, destruction and dispersion due to religous and political forces beyond their control. That being said, has there been any research on how the Jewish religion grew in Roman and then subsequently Christian Europe? Most articles and publications I've come across gloss over what seems to be 1,200 years of Jewish presence in Europe right after the expulsion of Judea by the Romans to the founding of Hapsburg Europe and the flourishment of Jews in what is today's Poland. 
The main explaination seems to be that all European Jews lived a separate existence from Gentiles and that they're most likely descended directly from Diaspora merchant Jews who emigrated throughout the Roman Empire. This seems highly unlikely since the original population had to be extremely small and any direct descendants would reflect the physical Eastern Mediterranean attributes of their Diaspora ancestors. Furthermore, millions of Jews of Central and Eastern European descent exhibit the physical attributes of Gentile populations from those regions.
I am not arguing that today's Jews (mainly from Europe) do not carry any ancestrial traits from the Diaspora populations from 2,000 years ago, but I am willing to say that the subject of Gentile intermarriage seems to be heavily downplayed.
:Actually, there have been genetic studies on the rate of intermarriage.  Off the top of my head, I believe the results were 0.5% per generation. Jayjg (talk) 18:58, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: As usual you are too lazy to provide references, and it would be too much to ask you to do the math, a few seconds with a pocket calculator (if you have a clue how to press the appropriate buttons). Even with your ridiculously low 0.5% number (compared to current intermarriage rates in the US), "Jewish blood" is a very small percentage.24.64.166.191 05:54, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  European Jewry 

message: This may be a question also in other articles, but it seems to me that it would be to overstate matters to say that the Shulchan Aruch is the basis for halacha.  Surely it is a central text, but I don't think it provides the sole text for all halachic decisions today.  Perhaps we should rephrase that sentence?  --Leifern 16:00, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, it is a central text, though others are used as well, particularly in areas not covered by the Shulchan Aruch.  What wording to you think would work better? Jayjg (talk) 21:38, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shulchan Aruch 

message: The wording of the title, "Who is a Jew?", is a bit confusing. I recommend moving this article to What is a Jew? for the sake of clarity. -Silence 00:05, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: *Not the brightest marbles in the basket, clearly. -Silence 08:13, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course. Clearly you haven't spent much time reading up on Wikipedia policies or guidelines, or you'd know to assume bad faith. -Silence 09:56, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe it says that it's not a Wikipedia policy nor a guideline. Lol. --Nissi Kim 04:03, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recommended page move 

message: this is an article? wow. Yameen? 05:49, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  This is an article? Wow 

message: in the section "Traditional (Halakhic) perspective" why is the sentence:
"Who the first Jews were is a matter of some controversy. Some maintain that it was those who were present, bodily, at the revelation of the Ten Commandments at Mount Sinai; others maintain that Abraham and Sarah were the first Jews."
here, it doesn't really fit, since this is not a halakhic dispute. frankly I don't think it belongs in the article Jon513 20:54, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  huh? delete setence 

message: I adjusted the section to read better and be more to the point. But I found the anachronism is the former wording, referring to bar/bat mitzvah age, a bit strange. If Jewish tradition condemns the children of a Jewish father and Gentile mother to status as an outsider, so does it not acknowledge the religious role of women with a bat mitzvah, a rather PC adaptation to modern times. -- Cecropia 03:50, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't understand your contention. Please explain. jnothman talk 04:28, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The original wording referred to the age of a bar/bat mitzvah. The tradition of matrilineal succession has roots about 1500 years ago or so, and the denial of religious Jewishness is a serious disability not altered by modern understanding of, say, DNA identification of parentage. However, bat mitzvahs are not traditional, only coming into widespread use in my lifetime, and is a nod to the attempt to include Jewish girls in Jewish community in a manner mimicking boys. The wording also "bar/bat mitzva age (twelve for a girl, thirteen for a boy, the minimum age when a child is considered mature enough to be responsible for his/her actions." That more resembles an explanation of confirmation among some Christian groups; i.e., the age at which you have the understanding to accept Christ for yourself, not because your parents say so. The bar mitzvah, in my understanding, is when a Jewish boy becomes a Jewish man capable of studying and particpating in adult religious activity. This is traditionally denied to girls and women. -- Cecropia 05:16, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Within the Jewish community 

message: * Apologies if you disagree, but i think this article is pretty messy, it seems to just say the same thing over and over again, ("the view in Israel is...", "the view according to Traditional Jewish law is..." etc) and this dilution of the interesting and relevant information kind of spoils what should, and would otherwise be, a great article. I dont really know enough about the subject to do that myself, and im certainly not going to be bold with such radical changes, but does anyone else at least see what I mean? Jdcooper 12:19, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confusing article