Talk:Motoring taxation in the United Kingdom

message: This section needs updating because the toll booths mentioned are long gone with a ANPR system now in place. The quese sadly remain! Sorry, I donlt have the details to do this edit myself.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.92.204.152 (talk) 14:47, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Dartford Crossing

message: The aim of the RfC is to establish whether Decriminalised Parking Enforcement(DPE) is a tax (qualifying it for inclusion) or not (qualifying it for deletion).
User:DeFacto insists that DPE (the parking fees and fines charged by local authorities (LAs) in the
UK) is a form of tax. Other users, myself included, have tried to remove this information because we don't consider DPE a tax by any reasonable definition, meaning that it does not belong in this article. 
*Cambrasa is exaggerating the level of disagreement.  No editor other than himself has attempted to remove DPE from the article.  DPE was part of the original article, as created on 2006-07-28.  One editor challenged, on this talkpage, the inclusion of DPE on 2006-07-29, along with challenges of the factual content of the DPE section.  This challenge was answered later on the same day.  No other challenge appeared for 18 months, until 2008-04-09, when Cambrasa raised the issue again. -- de Facto (talk). 11:16, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: RfC: Are parking fees charged by local authorities a from of taxation?

message: ====Pro====
#The information about DPE is factual, accurate, and sourced. --Cambrasa confab
#*This discussion is not about the accuracy of the information, it is about whether it belongs in this article. --Cambrasa confab
#Any form of government income that is not ringfenced is a tax. DPE is not ringfenced to be spent on parking.
#*This is a flawed definition of the word "tax". Other government sources of income, such as interest collected on foreign loans, are neither ringfenced, nor are they called taxes. --Cambrasa confab
#** Cambrasa created that straw man.  Whether a government income is ring-fenced, or not, is not relevant to deciding whether it is a tax or not.  National Insurance Contributions are ring-fenced and a tax, revenues from VAT are not ring-fenced, but are also a tax. -- de Facto (talk). 11:16, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Arguments for and against inclusion (plus counterarguments)

message: #The information about DPE is factual, accurate, and sourced. --Cambrasa confab
#*This discussion is not about the accuracy of the information, it is about whether it belongs in this article. --Cambrasa confab
#Any form of government income that is not ringfenced is a tax. DPE is not ringfenced to be spent on parking.
#*This is a flawed definition of the word "tax". Other government sources of income, such as interest collected on foreign loans, are neither ringfenced, nor are they called taxes. --Cambrasa confab
#** Cambrasa created that straw man.  Whether a government income is ring-fenced, or not, is not relevant to deciding whether it is a tax or not.  National Insurance Contributions are ring-fenced and a tax, revenues from VAT are not ring-fenced, but are also a tax. -- de Facto (talk). 11:16, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Pro

message: #A voluntary exchange is not a tax. A tax is neiter voluntary nor an exchange because it is something you are compelled to pay whether you use a public service or not, and it does not entitle you to get anything in return. Parking fees are voluntary transactions, because paying the fees gives a motorist the legal right to get a service in return (the exclusive usage of public land for a given amount of time). --Cambrasa confab
#* All taxes are voluntary because one can opt out by not engaging in the activities that are taxed. --Cambrasa confab
#* In the UK, the television licence fee is a tax, but you are only required to pay it if you receive the service.  In the UK certain social benefits are only available to those who have paid the appropriate amount of National Insurance contributions.  The payment of a tax can give access to services denied to non-payers. -- de Facto (talk). 11:16, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Con

message: *Delete or Rename article to inlcude the word "charges" or similar - as per Con arguments 1-7 above --Cambrasa confab 00:11, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion

message: Do we want to attempt to itemise the total revenue that comes out of all of these charges here? This information was given in a piecemeal fashion in answer to a Parliamentary question six months ago (see Question from Mr. Redwood under "Excise Duties: Fuels" [http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200708/cmhansrd/cm071122/text/71122w0009.htm
here]. The Minister Angela Eagle only counted vehicle excise duty and hydrocarbon oils duty as "Taxes on motoring", although she did reference the income tax on company car benefit as well, and noted that VAT was not accounted for seperately.  Ephebi (talk) 17:25, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revenues from taxes 

message: I have removed (again) the following paragraph from the lead.  The reasons are given below it. 
The reference does not discuss the history or level of UK motoring taxes, or the size of the benefits, or of the costs, that motoring brings to the UK economy, so the assertions made, based upon that reference, with respect to the subject of this article, must be OR.  I agree that a section analysing the politics behind motoring taxes would be interesting, but given that most of the taxes pre-date current environmental and climate change politics, it will need to be carefully constructed to get a balanced and plausible POV. -- de Facto (talk). 17:30, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Original research in lead 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I think someone has never had a job of being a delivery driver in London
I think someone has never been a commercial driver in London
I know someone who is glad he never has to drive in London for the foreseeable future!
--143.159.197.166 (talk) 01:52, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  That hilarious parking fine discussion 

message: Motor taxation appears to be somethin of a bellwether for wider arguments about the costs and benefits of motor transport and its impacts on issues such as individual freedom, economic efficiency on one hand and pollution and the detriment to localities and vulnerable road users in the other hand.  
A great many people believe that motor taxation is a sham to raise money and its restriction is covert regulation by unreasonable environmentalists. 
An alternative view would be that motor taxation is a way of constraining unwanted outcomes through charges and restrictions 
Just a start. DicksterWall (talk) 23:25, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Fairness of Motor Taxation