Talk:Human rights in Ukraine

message: Let's build a proposed structure for the article, in the form of a bulleted list. We can worry about the exact hierarchy later. I will delete any walls of text. I will start, primarily to try to illustrate my proposal. I need to go do other things for a while; feel free to rearrange, discuss and/or add. However, for clarity, please put any comments *under* the list.
;Lede
*Summary
;Definition of HR
* possible compare/contrast of differences
;History
*under Stalin: famine, deportations of Crimeans
*As an SSR: restrictions on media
*After collapse of USSR: May need to break down by leaders
*2010 - Yanukovich, etc, oligarchs
*2014 on: probably need to break down by leader
-Russian influence, Little Green Men, overview of "separatists", ATO, prosecutions of past office-holders,  extrajudicial killings, media ownership, language law, OSCE, propaganda, false flags 
; Detail sections for topics surveyed in History section
* Donbas: militias
* Language law
Etc Elinruby (talk) 04:34, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Russian domination/colonialisation of Ukraine started ages ago. Xx236 (talk) 07:21, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: That's true. But how far back should we take it? I was thinking that Kievan Rus predates the concept of human rights. Open to discussion on this subject. Elinruby (talk) 07:26, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: According to Ukraine it was 1783. Xx236 (talk) 08:21, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe even the Treaty of Küçük Kaynarca because it was followed by religious persecution, hmm. I am not against the idea, but I am pretty sure somebody will say it's anachronistic. But a fast mention at the beginning of the History section might fly (?) Elinruby (talk) 09:19, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

text: Let's not make this a fork of History of Ukraine. Other Human rights in X articles have a short history section (Human_rights_in_Sweden#History_of_human_rights) or no such section at all (Human_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia). The article should focus on the current issues. Alaexis¿question? 14:18, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: And yet the article spends a lot of time on 2005 and 2007. That's the issue with the sort of recentism you are proposing. Elinruby (talk) 17:49, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not sure I understand you, I don't think that the article should spend a lot of time on 2005 and 2007. We have more recent sources and we should use them. Alaexis¿question? 19:38, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

text:  Preach it then. This is my own issue with the current article. I have realized why you said fork of History of Ukraine -- my outline above puts everything under History. It was actually intended as a proposed format for discussing the article structure more than anything else. I actually think we could everything about the history with Russia (Catherine the Great to fall of the USSR) into a section somewhat smaller than the one you pointed to at Human rights in Sweden. If we want to do that. But it seems to me that we should distinguish who is/was running the particular institution that is/was depriving people of their human rights. This is assuming that I am correct in my understanding that we've decided the geographic scope. If not we need to start there.Elinruby (talk) 20:03, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Starting from scratch -- let's work together 

message: :: Looked quickly, at a number of 'human rights in x'. Most seem pretty ad hoc, honestly. A few notes that pertain to discussion here of what should or should not be in this article. Posting here as food for thought, feel free to discuss or rework as desired:
*Yemen - discusses child soldiers, did not see a mention of famine
*Mexico - mentions of cartel violence and other massacres. Did not see discussion of migrants,.at the border or elsewhere
*Syria - extensive History section subdivided by régime. Separate section for Civil war
*Greece - sections for current issues, Amnesty international, US State Dept
*US - extensive History section, separate
discussions of Constitution, CIA misdeeds abroad
*Honduras - sections for régimes, no mention of refugees
*Russia: mostly thematic approach, sections for Putin and Chechnya as well. Nothing about invasion. Tagged needs update
*Donetsk - no "human rights in" article but Humanitarian situation during the war in Donbas
*Canada - Current issues section does address pipelines and indigenous people
*UK - History section goes back to Magna Carta
*Saudi Arabia - separate section on extraterritorial killings, featuring Jama Khoshoggi
*Malaysia - thematic approach, discussion  of refugees
*Chile - lengthy History section, separate article for Pinochet Elinruby (talk) 22:49, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Human rights in x