Talk:Simonides of Ceos

message: The bit about "lofty national pride" and "genial worldliness" seemed like blatant POV, albeit the POV of a Classical scholar with an impressive vocabulary, and I've removed it.
I've simplified the literal translation of the Spartan Epitaph by replacing 'edicts' with 'words.'  LSJ cites this passage in its definition of ῥῆμα as 'word'.  I have also removed the superfluous parenthetical providing the etymologically derived meaning of the word (which also contained a confused understanding of this use of the dative).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.17.160.66 (talk) 23:11, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments

message: Simonides of Ceos is the traditional name for this lyric poet, rather than Simonides of Kea. To avoid anachronism one typically gives peoples' names with the ancient placenames, rather than the modern equivalents. Hence Ceos, rather than Kea. Another example is Aristophanes of Byzantium, where the ancient name Byzantium is used instead of Constantinople or Istanbul. Dd42 (talk) 23:59, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Your argument is not quite right, Dd42. I got convinced that the article should be named "Simonides of Ceos". But I insist that what we have at hand is a „terrible“ grammatical mistake without precedent in the history of Contemporary Classical Philology. His name in Latin is properly transcribed as Simōnidēs Cēus, which comes from Greek Σιμωνίδης "Simonides (name)" ὁ "the" Κεῖος "Κε- (root of the word for the Island Κέως)" + ι-ος "-i-an (masculine, nom. case)/man from"; note that both Κεῖος and Cēus were pronounced [kee-os|-us] during the time that the Greek name was transcribed to Latin, and that Latin has no definite articles. However, after you had reverted me (justifiably, I gotta admit), I "conducted" a hasty search in the literature and I was amazed to discover that somehow, during the last centuries, "Simonides the Ceos" (Simonides the man from Kea) has been replaced(?) in all languages, other than Greek and Latin, by "Simonides of Keos", which essentially is like saying *Alexander of Macedonian. However, this mistake is irrepairable now, so all I can suggest is that this interesting fact of Historical Grammar be mentioned somewhere in the article. Omnipedian (talk) 13:21, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

text: Hmm.. and only minutes after having written this, I finally realize my mistake. Ceos doesn't translate Κεῖος, but Κέως! So, oops.. both S. Cēus/Cēos [Κεῖος] and S. of Ceōs [Κέως] (τῆς Κέω In A.Greek) are correct and there's no grammatical mistake, after all. Of course I leave my previous comment above, in order to see my line of thought and justify my actions =] Still wondering if the readers of the article should be warned about this potential though rare confusion. Omnipedian (talk) 14:08, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Simonides of Ceos

message: I'm tempted to have a go at developing this article. Even dead languages still breathe in the words of their poets and yet articles like this continue to be neglected while articles on dry-as-dust scholastic debris such as Roman genealogy are developed ad nauseam. What is wrong with everyone? Amphitryoniades (talk) 01:15, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: "<refSimonides - Thomas Bulfinch. (1796–1867). Age of Fable: Vols. I & II: Stories of Gods and Heroes. 1913. SIMONIDES was one of the most prolific of the early poets of Greece, but only a few fragments of his compositions have descended to us. He wrote hymns, triumphal odes, and elegies. In the last species of composition he particularly excelled. His genius was inclined to the pathetic, and none could touch with truer effect the chords of human sympathy. The “Lamentation of Danaë,” the most important of the fragments which remain of his poetry, is based upon the tradition that Danaë and her infant son were confined by order of her father, Acrisius, in a chest and set adrift on the sea. The chest floated towards the island of Seriphus, where both were rescued by Dictys, a fisherman, and carried to Polydectes, king of the country, who received and protected them. The child, Perseus, when grown up became a famous hero, whose adventures have been recorded. Simonides passed much of his life at the courts of princes, and often employed his talents in panegyric and festal odes, receiving his reward from the munificence of those whose exploits he celebrated. This employment was not derogatory, but closely resembles that of the earliest bards, such as Demodocus, described by Homer, or of Homer himself, as recorded by tradition. On one occasion, when residing at the court of Scopas, king of Thessaly, the prince desired him to prepare a poem in celebration of his exploits, to be recited at a banquet. In order to diversify his theme, Simonides, who was celebrated for his piety, introduced into his poem the exploits of Castor and Pollux. Such digressions were not unusual with the poets on similar occasions, and one might suppose an ordinary mortal might have been content to share the praises of the sons of Leda. But vanity is exacting; and as Scopas sat at his festal board among his courtiers and sycophants, he grudged every verse that did not rehearse his own praises. When Simonides approached to receive the promised reward Scopas bestowed but half the expected sum, saying, “Here is payment for my portion of thy performance; Castor and Pollux will doubtless compensate thee for so much as relates to them.” The disconcerted poet returned to his seat amidst the laughter which followed the great man’s jest. In a little time he received a message that two young men on horseback were waiting without and anxious to see him. Simonides hastened to the door, but looked in vain for the visitors. Scarcely, however, had he left the banqueting hall when the roof fell in with a loud crash, burying Scopas and all his guests beneath the ruins. On inquiring as to the appearance of the young men who had sent for him, Simonides was satisfied that they were no other than Castor and Pollux themselves.
So, I'll replace that with other sources. Amphitryoniades (talk) 04:34, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Amphitryoniades.  Can I suggest one possible avenue toward modernization?  The page currently mentions the "new" fragments from 1992 (under Poetry) and includes a reference to the Boedeker & Sider volume on them, but little is made of this discovery.  Up until really quite recently scholars were convinced that there was no true narrative elegy in the archaic and early classical periods, so the martial fragments certainly are notable, at least from a literary historical point of view--just like the new Archilochus.  And the essays in Boedeker & Sider might at least help with getting this article out of the 19th c.  Yours, P.Oxy.2354 (talk) 21:57, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  mmm 

message: I'm pasting here some reference material for inclusion of New Simonides:
*Bryn Mawr review (some good details) 
*Poxy site - pictures and stuff 
*B.Encyclopaedia: "Facts about Simonides of Ceos: poem on the Greco-Persian Wars, as discussed in ancient Greek civilization (historical region, Eurasia): Plataea:
Substantial fragments of an elegiac poem on papyrus by the great poet Simonides were published as recently as 1992; the poem describes the run-up to the battle of Plataea and more or less explicitly compares Pausanias to Achilles, the Greek leader of the mythical Trojan War. It thus equates the magnitude and importance of the Trojan and Persian wars. This remarkable find provides the ..." Amphitryoniades (talk) 03:06, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Simonides 

message: I've included this picture because it seems apt. However, many Wikipedians have no wiggle-room for experiences like this and I won't be surprised if it disappears sometime soon. I had another picture here that likened dancing to poetry but I forgot that Simonides said poetry was like painting (not dancing) and I deleted it myself, in spite of my wiggle-tolerance. Though I dare say he would have said it was like dancing if it had ever occurred to him, since the Greeks danced more than they painted. And maybe he said dancing is like painting but nobody ever recorded it. McZeus (talk) 01:46, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pictures 

message: Here is a single instance of the POV throughout the article:
:His rival, Pindar, who identified closely with the aristocratic world and its heroic ethic, never composed anything as thoughtful or sympathetic as the following poem of Simonides
Unfortunately I do not have time to fix the whole article right now, but the article deserves attention to remove the regular frank descriptions of the quality of the work of multiple poets. -- Ollyoxenfree (talk) 08:23, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV