Talk:The Watchtower/Archive 2

message: Summersong, could you please be careful making mass deletes.  This article was written slowly over time.  The prophecies section was not a critique but an acknowledgement of critical views and contained a historical rebuttal of those views.  I think it was npov.  cairoi 16:46, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prophecies 

message: Could someone please archive this page? I'm don't have time to be very involved with the discussion here. I have become busy with work lately and haven't had time to contribute, so I don't know where things stand and what is inactive enough to archive. I wish you all much luck knowing you will all work to make this article better. I might check in from time to time with some contributions though, who knows. I really hope my life makes room for wikipedia again sometime soon. Samrolken 08:16, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I have noticed in the article that some anonymous users have removed good content that was agreed upon by consensus long ago. Please be sure no work is lost. Samrolken 08:17, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hey 

message: Tom, thanks so much for your help. 
The problem I see is one that Danny has brought up and seems to continue to occur across JW articles. This issue of escatology is one that should be dealt with in the "doctrines of" page. I would suggest moving this entire discussion there and possibly archiving it to another page here, notated thusly. The Watchtower is not the only source of education produced by JW's and to say that "The Watchtower" has taught this or that is clumsy wording.
george 03:18, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm in favour with Tom's reply and philosopy.  I'd like to see a quick outline of the issue and a redirection to the Doctrines page.  Perhaps we could note that some critics consider JW's dates to be doctrines and link from there.  cairoi 21:26, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: George's reply to Tom's suggestions

message: The stated purpose section began with
:The stated purpose of The Watchtower is to exalt Jehovah God as Sovereign Lord of the universe, and encourage faith in Jesus Christ.
This sentence, without quotation marks, is POV.  (It takes the point of view that God is named Jehovah, for example.)  I notice that the same purpose is stated two paragraphs later, in the front-cover quotation.  Hence, I boldly took out the first instance.  Dbenbenn 00:04, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Fine, whatever.  The only problem I had was that it wasn't actually in quotes, as I indicated above.  Dbenbenn 03:53, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think maybe George was operating under the assumption that the introductory phrase "Stated purpose" acts to mark the quote so that there was no punctuation required.  I personally feel that quotes or no quotes it doesn't matter.  The statement is still clearly identified as a NPOV report of a POV assertion.  So, it could stay as is or with quotes.  You're both right.  cairoi 17:24, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Stated purpose

message: An issue that continually comes up, as georgem mentioned, is whether certain information should be on a particular page.  As a practical concern, that question is often answered best by experience with the occurence of anonymous edits.  Often you will notice that anons continually kick against what you are trying to do in an article.  I have found, or decided, that in those cases, the best response is, "if you can't beat them, join them".  To keep your own sanity, you have to find a way to express things that will satisfy the readers and not keep inviting counterproductive edits.  For example, perhaps only time will tell how much this article needs to say about Watchtower Eschatology.  I think it is wise to say just a little and include an inline link to the more explanatory, exploratory article. Tom H.
: I support this idea. Any other comments on creating a new "Eschatology of Jehovah's Witnesses" page detailing the issue in detail, and linking to that? It would really keep us working on the Watchtower article from going off on a tangent. Samrolken 08:13, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: A philosophical note on what to include in articles

message: The article says the magazine is published via the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society in Wallkill, New York.
Any additional info for that location ? Other sources put that society in Brooklin. Also, Wallkill leads to a disambig page. Flammifer 05:58, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wallkill, New York ? 

message: I'd like to see neutral and complete coverage of everything on Wikipedia, and it seems therefore disturbing that the current version of the article has been "sanitized" of any critical comments, or anything that alludes to the many ongoing controversies regarding The Watchtower magazine. This causes a POV concern for me. Samrolken 04:54, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Sam, this is an encyclopedic website not advertising... --Zikar 10:50, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV?