Talk:Benjamin Libet

message: But her criticism is under "dualist" criticisms.... That's going to give people false assumptions.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.212.80.245 (talk) 19:03, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Patricia Churchland not a dualist

message: I noted that some dualist ignoramuses are editing this article, please put this page into moderation so as to prevent uneducated people from trying to discredit a serious scientific work. I changed the article so that it becomes clear where such stupid dualist objections are raised, and clarified in which way a reasonable neuroscientist would interpret the power of veto. It seems there is no shortage of religious fools. Can't we just get rid of them? The dualist objections should be put into another page so as not to litter a biography Exa (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 14:16, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Dualist "philosophers" editing this article

message: In my Opinion,the neutrality of this article is disputed. The way it was written may even discredit Benjamin Libet as a scientist, and suggest that his own opinions about his own research is wrong and that his ideas are non-sense; all this is suggested without the proper evidence. This may be unconsciously done and without intention to offend him or his research, but the effects of this article may still damage the discovery of the truth behind that still-unclear scenario . Free Will debates still lives on even inside the scientific community, and is not a product of denial.(See  Scientific American -Mind-(Volume 14, Number 1 ; 2004); "Does Free Will Arise Freely?" by Michael Pauen ; see also the Encarta Encyclopedia 2005 articule on "states of consciousness").Please do not exclude (or remove) from the article proper scientific literature about the subject that can let the reader see things from both points of view -   in favor and against the notion of the existence of free will (or other point of view wich is supported by legitimate evidence)-.This helps with the neutrality issue in this subject .Thank you
-James Albert
P.S.- Please do not engage in the Style over Substance fallacy; A more attractive aspect is not the most important matter in this subject.
:Hope the revisions I've made help - it seems people were extrapolating too much from Libet's experiments, into being a disproof of free will in its entirety and, as you say, discrediting Libet's own understanding of the results.  Anyway, any comments?Visual Error 12:31, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: In

message: The sentence "Libet's experiments suggest unconscious processes in the brain are the true initiator of volitional acts, therefore, little room remains for the operations of free will" seems to me to be such a leap of logic to be almost a non-sequitur.
If these experiments demonstrate that the subconscious or unconscious brain initiates the act before the subject is consciously aware of it (which is itslef debatable), all that means is that conscious awareness 'lags' behind our actions. But it doesn't destroy the idea of free will. That would suggest that someone, or something, outside of the brain had decided to initiate the action. There is no evidence for that at all.
It is still "you" who decides to do it; after all the uncoscious brain is a part of "you" - as a materialist, I would have to say there is nothing else. But I suppose if you believe in a mind separate from the brain, then the argument against free will has even less force.
There are lots of other intepretations of these results which seem far more sensible (and far more grounded in the facts) than a leap to abolish free will.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.156.8.248 (talk) 06:22, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Free will

message: ::Since Libet's findings started to trickle out -
::there was a lot of nonsense about our free will...
::What??? My free will is useless? I'll give it up!
::Here, my friend, take it - and tell me what to do...
::Now, how could I - give up something I did not have?!
:::::::::::::22nd May 2011
Rene Descartes noticed slight delay as people were overriding their instinctive reactions with willed deliberate voluntary acts. This is exactly the same delay Benjamin Libet researched. This calls for "readiness potential" to be renamed into neuronal activity required for intent.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.255.7.10 (talk) 03:21, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: The Existence of Free Will Confirmed

message: The final paragraph of this article seems to present an opinion rather than citing a factual source - could citations and references please be offered for this section (the phrase 'it is a fact that...', minus a reference, especially stirs my suspicions).  Cheers Visual Error 21:35, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think this is fixed now, by expanding on Libet's ideas rather than presenting personal opinion. --EPadmirateur 03:53, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Final paragraph

message: ... his most famous and controversial experiment demonstrates that unconscious electrical processes in the brain (called 'readiness potential') precede conscious decisions to perform volitional, spontaneous acts... [etc] ...
The word 'controversial' in that sentence seems unclear to me. Does it simply refer to the fact that the philosophical implications of Libet's experiment are still being discussed and no real consensus has yet been reached? Or is the experiment itself -- the methods used, the results, etc -- considered controversial; in other words, is the scientific validity of the experiment itself in dispute? If the latter meaning, then that needs to be clearly dealt with in the article. 194.66.229.8 17:02, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Controversial? 

message: Benjamin Libet, my grandfather, passed away earlier this afternoon.JQLibet 21:51, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I haven't seen any news reports or an obituary yet. I hope that there will be appropriate tributes given in the press and at UCSF. --EPadmirateur 00:05, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is the one from the paper in Davis, CA, where he lived at the time of his death.  I'm sure others exist.  Thanks to you and the other commenter for your sympathies.  JQLibet 17:19, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you. --EPadmirateur 21:16, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sad News 

message: Perhaps this isn't the relevant forum to communicate these ideas, but I was taken aback when I saw that Dr. Libet had passed. My condolences to his grandson who communicated this news. His ideas and research have yet to be adequately interpreted, and they will shape the study of consciousness for many years, but you know this already.
:This is indeed very sad news. I extend my heartfelt sympathies to Dr. Libet's family. I think his work will be judged as a very significant contribution to neuroscience. The pattern of his research and his penetrating thought on what he discovered, over the period of 1964 to the present, is a model of scientific investigation on par with the greatest scientists. --EPadmirateur 03:22, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Great Man 

message: is it libet as in "buy-it", or libet as in "cricket"? Thanks32.149.125.23 (talk) 18:47, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's Lih' bet, more like "libbet" or as you say "cricket". --EPadmirateur (talk) 20:16, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That's correct.  You wouldn't believe the pronunciations I've heard though!  JQLibet (talk) 03:33, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  how to pronounce his name 

message: Addition of dates to article would be nice. 1970's? 1980's? He would have been in his 50's or 60's when these experiments were performed; what did he do between WWII and then? linas (talk) 22:43, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Date of experiments? 

message: Recent work of Aaron Shurger and Judy Trevena queries role of readiness potentials in decisions. Datafile28 (talk) 12:27, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Libet challenged 

message: In case someone might wish to collect a bibliography of Libet's work, are are some more citations, converted from BiBTeX:
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
Churchland's reply to Libet's reply:
*
By the way:
As far as I understood, Libet's early experiments and his theory of "antedating" should be clearly separated from his volition experiments. In the article, the distinction is not very clear: sect.1 seems to describe only the volition experiments; after that, sect.2 seems to discuss implications of only the volition experiments; however, the "antedating" issues seem to be explained as part of it in sect.2.3. I'd like to read more details about the "antedating" issues. 
Maybe the current article should even be split into on article about Libet and his work in general (there also explaining "antedating" stuff), and another article about Libet's famous and highly controversial volition experiments in particular?
Jochen Burghardt (talk) 20:36, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Neuroscience identifies the 500 ms time lag with the approximate time that a sensory stimuli takes to become conscious through processing in the sensory cortex. There does not seem to be anything particularly puzzling about 'antedating'. Physics tells us that the external world bears little resemblance to the repesentations that our brains produce. What we see etc. is an adaptive model or map aiding our survival. The adjustment of the experience closer to the time of the originating stimulus looks to be similarly adaptive. One can call this an illusion if you like, but only in the sense that most of our experience is an illusion.
What is more interesting is that the up to 500 ms time delay takes us to the areas of the brain and the types of processing that are correlated with consciousness. This rather than the more famous experiments relative to free will may be more lasting legacy of Libet's work. Research since Libet's time has pointed to the type of small movements that he studied being governed by the unconscious dorsal stream, while the consciousness-related ventral stream is more connected to reward/punisher evaluations and their influence on more deliberative planning and behaviour.Persephone19 (talk) 08:35, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  More references 

message: The article states that the margin of error is negative (perhaps a typo, the common way to specify statistical errors is by preceding them with \pm.) Another thing that needs to be specified, whether we are talking about absolute error or square root of sum of squared errors. The former is easier to calculate while the later is more commonly used in statistics (there are some other, less often used errors). In any case, you need to tell what exact kind of error was meant.
The rationale for why errors can't be negative is that error stands for amount the data under experiment deviates from the chosen concept of average. All data can deviate to one side of the average only for very poorly chosen average (for negative error, it would have to be the largest value in the data set, which hardly qualifies as any average at all). 79.176.121.21 (talk) 12:22, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Margin of error can't be negative 

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