Talk:James Kim/Archive 2

message: I think the article should be split into two. One about the tragedy and the search party which captured nationwide media attention. I think having nationwide media attention about anything for a week is reason good enough to have article about. The second article (perhaps much shorter one) could be about James Kim - I think since he was main "actor" in the story it justifies separate article existence. Roman 05:59, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Splitting the article ? 

message: Do we have any references that show the coordinates of where the car was found, etc.? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 192.45.72.26 (talk) 19:58, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Coordinates

message: Thanks to everyone who contributed to this article. I hope God will bless you in some way, and poor James, he will be missed. BrianEd 12:58, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think God should save his blessings for the Kim family 72.36.251.234 03:12, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thanks 

message: It may be important to note that authorities are looking for the person who cut the lock on Bear camp road--Mutley 22:42, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: if this were an article about that section of road, perhaps.--Crossmr 22:57, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Crossmr, I don't understand your comment - they wouldn't have been stranded at all if the lock wasn't cut!--203.214.109.139 23:04, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And the fact that the lock was cut is relevant to what happened. The incident is done now and the police are looking for who cut the lock, that isn't relevant to what happened. Its something that happened after the fact in the area. If they pave that tiny stretch of road next summer, or post bigger signs, neither are relevant to an article about James Kim. They're relevant to an article about that road. I believe its already been mentioned that the lock was cut, that is about as far as the relevance extends there.--Crossmr 23:06, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course it's relevant to what happened. If police find who cut the lock, that information should obviously be included in the article as that individual would bear some indirect responsibility in James Kim's death. Blacksun1942 19:27, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Was there any signage on the road saying how far away the black bar lodge was? (probably not)--203.214.109.139 23:13, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No idea. Someone above mentioned that it was just discovered it was 6 miles away, not 1 mile away. They also said they hadn't read if there were signs saying that or not.--Crossmr 23:20, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If his death is encyclopedic, then the causes of it are encyclopedic, such as someone cutting a lock which led to their winding up where they did. Edison 20:28, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The fact that the lock was cut is in the article. The personal history and on-going life story of the lock are not relevant.The lock is but a small part in the makeup of this person's life. Delving into minutia surrounding the lock adds nothing to an article about James Kim.--Crossmr 20:57, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Who cut the lock

message: Did Kati really attach reflective tape to her umbrella that she waved to attract the attention of helicopters? It's stated as such in the article but I have not read a source. People don't normally have reflective tape in their car. This is an interesting tidbit of info. Hanako 02:51, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Could we verify/clarify the footprints issue? From my reading, it appears that the helicopter pilot was following the tire tracks of the car, and coincidentally also found his footprints. Kati and the kids would almost certainly also have been found since the tire tracks were the major feature being followed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 192.55.52.4 (talk) 01:54, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Umbrella 

message: They were only successfully located because a signal transmitted from the family's cell phone had been picked up by a cellular tower.[7] The signal was emitted when the Kim family's cell phone received a text message.[8] 
If they had a cell phone, why they didn't just call 911? --Urod 12:35, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *Are you for real? After all you've read about their resourcefulness, you think they didn't try to call 911? lol Hanako 19:47, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cell phone 

message: Can we get the sources for both sides of this? Some are saying one, some are saying seven, lets provide the relevant stories here. It may be that the one comes from an earlier story which didn't have all the information.--Crossmr 19:59, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See reference #18; there was an initial map error. James in fact traveled a total of 16 miles, not 10. He was roughly 7 miles from Black Bar Lodge which was on the other side of the river. The owner of the lodge is quoted in the article (reference 18) as saying he was unfamiliar with the Big Windy Creek area and unaware that his lodge was nearby. Blacksun1942 20:45, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "one mile away" was always incorrect (even in earlier reports) as it referred to as the crow flies which is inaccurate - they should be using "along the road" distances and you can tell by looking at any of the maps that it was it was a very winding road.  --203.214.75.116 01:52, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  One mile, seven miles 

message: I checked on Google Earth, shortest (straight-line point to point) distance from their car to Galice is about 12.5 miles. However, this distance would be relevant to the story only if Kims could fly. When I am measuring shortest along-the-road-distance to Galice (which is I guess the quickest way how human can get there on foot) I am getting distance of more than 30 miles. I think this along-the-road distance (probably more precisely measured than I did it) should be stated in the article instead of 15 miles distance quoted from "authorities". Saying that in reality distance to Galice was 15 miles is very misleading because Kims could not possibly get to Galice by walking 15 miles. This just shows how sloppy media reporting is and how questionable is using news reports as "reliable sources".  Roman 19:22, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree with regard to the relevance of the as-the-crow-flies distance to the nearest town, because ostensibly Mr. Kim, as he left the road and entered the rough terrain that would prove his undoing, thought that there was a roadless route to (some) town that would be quicker. Of course the distance by road is worth noting as well, since that would have been the best route. Matt Gies 00:07, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: He left the road after walking along the road for more than 10 miles. So I don't think his initial intention was taking as-the-crow-flies path. He clearly did not know where he was. If he thought Galice was 4 miles away then after walking 10 miles he must have realized that he is somewhere else. But regardless of what he thought ..., when you are on road and somebody tells you that a town is 15 miles away - most of people think that what is talked about is along-the-road distance, not as-the-crow-flies distance. That is also clearly the case in this article's discussion, as couple of people here (Casey, Crossmr) discuss the mentioned 15 miles as it was along-the-road distance - which is just not true. Roman 06:34, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Hrm. The message attempting to be conveyed is "direct overland route". It seems wikipedia has an article on it which could be inter-linked too As_the_crow_flies.--Crossmr 04:46, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: thanks for the link, I used it in the article. Roman 19:32, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Distance to Galice 15 miles ? 

message: I just saw this CNN footage, and also checked GoogleEarth. I just don't see how they could accidentally turn onto that spur road while backtracking. While driving downhill they would have to make about 160 degree uphill turn, I just don't see how you can do that accidentally. Look here. The spur road is the one which looks just as it was a main road at that intersection. My opinion is that they were backtracking much later after already taking that spur road.
BTW, I am pretty sure that if I was going from Galice to Agness in bad weather without GPS then I would do the same mistake and take that spur road first. It simpy looks like it is the main road at that point. In middle of that intersection where the road forks there is sign indicating direction to Agness. But since at that point the roads are almost parallel, the sign is quite confusing. Black Bar Lodge owner's family even painted additional huge "COAST" text with arrow written on the road pavement indicating which way the coast is, because they also found intersection so confusing. This sign is however quite useless during snow, because snow simply covers it Roman 06:20, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  ... Driving back to retrace their path, they accidentally turn onto a spur road ...