Talk:Iron Cross

message: Although IRON CROSS is the proper English-language name, the cross is somewhat-frequently referred to as the PRUSSIAN CROSS in English.  Not trying to do original research, but should PRUSSIAN CROSS be added to the article as an alternate name for the IRON CROSS?  2601:85:C300:5830:3469:8C25:C0B5:7709 (talk) 08:30, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Prussian Cross

message: You may use all my pictures (german wikipedia !) for the english wikipedia project !
Best regards
Bruce Marvin (talk) 15:16, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Pictures of Iron Crosses

message: "The Iron Cross can also be worn as a necklace by someone with German Heritage, denoting German ancestry. They come in various colors (blue, red, etc) and can either be on a chain, or as a tattoo, with the same meaning." As a German myself I find this entry rather odd, I've never seen a person with an iron cross necklace nor have I ever heard of this custom. Tattoos are more common but there meaning (denoting German heritage) is questionable.
Please verify this information and add the name of the country where this is "common" practice
or delete this entry entirely. Thx in advance. --Volker   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.177.237.82 (talk) 09:06, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Pop Culture

message: How about a list of Iron Cross recipients?
:Very hard to get.........ill try though
:: For anything below the level of a Knights Cross with attachment, you're talking about hundreds of people.  For the Iron Cross 1st and 2nd Class, you're talking in the millions.  I think there were over 3-4 million Iron Cross 2nd Classes issued between 1939-1945.
Why is there a huge space at the start of the article.  Can we fix that? User:Husnock
The wording of the “third” Iron Cross receipiant is vague and unclear.  “A third award was planned for the most successful German general during the Second World War, but was not made after the defeat of Germany in 1945.”  Can we clear it up by saying something like, “A third award was planned, but was not finished before Germany’s defeat in 1945.”  Le Ted Esquire1:41 p.m. MST 09/03/09  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Le ted esquire (talk • contribs) 19:41, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Iron Cross recipients

message: I've seen this cross used in various counter cultures in america that don't seem to be neo nazi related, you'll often see it on bikers, hardcore punk rockers, metal heads.  It would be good to get this into the article if someone can find an explanation.
Also...what is considered the first American skinhead/oi band was called Iron Cross.  They were from Washington, D.C.  They put out a few 7"'s and contributed a few comp. tracks to a legendary D.C. punk compilation called "Flex Your Head".  Their one classic song is "Crucified For Your Sins", made famous by Agnostic Front.  They have no nazis ties and band-leader Sab Grey is (at least partly) Jewish.
You may be thinking of the maltese cross, which is quite similar. mhunter 23:13, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I realise this comment is ancient, but no, they're almost certainly referring to the Iron Cross. - 81.179.148.71 16:29, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Use in american counter culture 

message: Okay.  That last edit of the images created a huge unslightly hole in the middle of the article.  That needs to be addressed as it makes the article look bad, in my opinion.  Can we fix the hole?  If not, a revert to the old image layout may be in order -User:Husnock 28 Aug 2004
:Since there were no comments about this, I reverted to the last clean image version which takes away the big hole and the spacing problems that occurred during the last edits. -User:Husnock 3 Sep 04
The current version of this page splits the images into two lines when viewed with Firefox, although it works fine in IE. So, I added a new line, which (I hope) will display the medals on one line on all browsers. Illuvatar 21:38, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Image Change AGAIN!

message: It is said that: "One of the most infamous holders of the 1914 Iron Cross 1st Class was Adolf Hitler (which was unusual as very few holders of the 1914 Iron Cross 1st Class were enlisted soldiers: Hitler held the rank of Gefreiter, or Lance Corporal)" - but we can see in the article about Hitler that he got the 2nd class in 1914 ( the 1st class, only in 1918)!! Manuel Anastácio 19:46, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Hitler: 1st or 2nd Class?

message: First paragraph seems wordy:
The Iron Cross (German: Eisernes Kreuz) is a military decoration of the Kingdom of Prussia, and later of Germany, which was established by King Friedrich Wilhelm III of Prussia and first awarded on 10 March 1813.  The Iron Cross is only awarded in wartime. In addition to the Napoleonic Wars, the Iron Cross was awarded during the Franco-Prussian War, and the First and Second World Wars.  It has not been awarded, nor any other form of a military decoration to honor or bravery, since May 1945 in the German Bundeswehr.
how about:
The Iron Cross (German: Eisernes Kreuz) is a wartime military decoration established by King Friedrich Wilhelm III of Prussia and first awarded on 10 March 1813.  As a Prussian, later German, wartime military decoration, it has been awarded for service in the Napoleonic Wars, the Franco-Prussian War, the First World War and Second World War.  It has not been awarded, nor any other form of military decoration to honor or bravery, since May 1945 in the German Bundeswehr.
Wendell 03:43, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds better to me - I'd suggest: go for it! --DerHerrMigo 14:18, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  First Paragraph suggestions 

message: I find it odd that the rare variants merit their own article but the Knight's Cross does not. I've created a page and copied the info here, but would suggest the Knight's Cross page be expanded. I noticed the article on the Gran Sasso Raid linked the word "Knight's Cross" to the Iron Cross page, meaning someone clicking in to here would have to hunt for the meaning of "Knight's Cross".Michael Dorosh 17:02, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Knight's Cross

message: nearly no entries in this cat. by the way, shouldnt it rather be Recipientes of the Iron Cross?--Tresckow 13:35, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I just went through the list of Field Marshals and added the category if the text listed that award or if the photo showed the person wearing it. It came out to about 20 articles. At the very least those names listed in this article should also have the category in their biographies.... Also, you're quite right; it should say "Recipients of the Iron Cross." Geeman 05:39, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Catego:Recipients of Iron Cross 

message: I added reference for that fact since it was asked. Reference is however in Finnish, but I post here the relevant chapter:
"Juutalaiset kieltäytyivät Rautarististä
Saksa myönsi kolmelle Suomen juutalaiselle Rautaristin heidän ansioistaan jatkosodan aikana. Yksikään ei ottanut sitä vastaan.
Lääkintäkapteeni Leo Skurnik oli pelastanut useamman saksalaisen hengen, koska hän katsoi sen olevan lääkärinä hänen velvollisuutensa. Rautaristi ei hänelle kuitenkaan kiitokseksi kelvannut.
Kapteeni Salomon Klass pelasti Pohjois-Karjalassa saksalaisjoukon venäläisten motista, koska hänet oli pataljoonan komentajana niin määrätty tekemään. Tosin hänen aseveljensä sanoivat, että mitä sinä niitä pelastamaan. Jätä ne sinne. Mutta Klass oli sotilas ja totteli käskyjä.
Klass istui teltassaan, kun kaksi korkea-arvoista saksalaista upseeria tuli sisään Rautaristin kanssa.
- Siinä vedettiin Heil Hitleriä ja luita kasaan, mutta Klass vain istui eikä ollut lainkaan kiinnostunut.
Klass sanoi olevansa juutalainen Suomen armeijassa eikä halua saksalaisilta mitään. Upseerit kalpenivat ja lähtivät pois, Matso kuvailee.
Nykyisin Israelissa asuva Dina Poljakoff oli lotta ja hänellekin myönnettiin Rautaristi. Poljakoff meni uteliaisuuttaan esikuntaan, katseli ristiä hetken, kääntyi ja lähti ulos."
So actually there were three awarded. I'll fix it. --Thule 00:50, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Finnish jews were awarded with Iron Cross 

message: The present article appears to offer two conflicting statements on the number of Iron Crosses awarded (five million vs. 3.5 million).  These numbers have been flagged with "citation needed" to highlight the need for further editing by knowledgeable WP contributors.  Jack Bethune 13:01, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Number of Iron Crosses awarded

message: What is the proper way to wear an Iron Cross, First Class, from 1914?  Is it worn on the collar like a bowtie-choker or over the left breast pocket? --JonnyLightning 02:04, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: All versions of the Iron Cross 1st Class (1813, 1870, 1914 and 1939) were worn as pinback crosses on the left breast pocket.  Only the Grand Cross and the various grades of the 1939 Knight's Cross were worn around the neck. Airbornelawyer 05:42, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proper wearing 

message: Hi!  This is my first discussion post, so please be gentle.
As of this writing, the article states, "The Iron Cross has nothing to do with racism, Nazism, or bigotry."  However, this is clearly wrong.  The symbol is used very frequently by neo-Nazi groups worldwide.  Here are several sources:
The Anti-Defamation League  
A Maryland-based flag dealer  
The NYT  
LA Daily News  
However, the symbol is also used by those not affiliated with neo-Nazism for fashion reasons.  Could we discuss how to add this information about this symbol's signifcance in current neo-Nazi culture?  I think it is vital to this article's relevance to current events.
Binkitybonk 03:36, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neo-Nazi and other use of iron cross 

message: The iron cross seems to be the worked into the main symbol for west coast choppers [].  Maybe this should be added  in the pop. culture references. Caval valor 20:02, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Iron Cross and west coast choppers 

message: The addition to Post WWII, "In 2007, a petition to the German parliament to revive the Iron Cross decoration recieved over 5,000 signatures and support from far-right groups in the country. Groups such as the Central Council of Jews in Germany object to the decoration's return, citing to lingering Nazi-era connotations." was changed to eliminate all mention of the groups for and against the award's restoration. I think the parties involved should be identified in some way. It provides a window into the current dialogue in Germany surrounding the Iron Cross. 
Hadrianvs 23:56, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The phrase in the article seems to have been changed to "received over 5,000 signatures and support" - which doesn't make sense grammatically, as you can't have "5,000 ... support"! At any rate, it actually seems a pretty small number: I don't know how popular petitioning is in Germany, but here in the UK, a cause that became really popular across the country could expect to have at least tens of thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands of signatures. 86.149.0.189 (talk) 11:54, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Modern Iron Cross 

message: I've done an edit on this article but it still lacks sources and is generally a mess. I have deleted some dubious unsourced statements. I have also recast the article in the past tense - the Iron Cross does not currently exist. I have also deleted all the "pop culture" rubbish at the end. No doubt someone will reinstate it but I continue to take a stand against this kind of junk content in serious articles. Intelligent Mr Toad (talk) 10:00, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The Iron Cross does not currently exist? What is the current Bundeswehr emblem called? --Farry (talk) 11:09, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: According to the Bundeswehr homepage, it's called, yep, you guessed it,  the "Eiserne Kreuz" (Iron Cross).Caisson 06 (talk) 20:15, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: A mess

message: This article is coming along quite nicely and I congratulate all of you for a good job.
When time permits, there should be a small section added on the Mother's Iron Cross that Nazi Germany awarded to women who had borne a certain number of sons for the Third Reich.
--rumjal 10:35, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You are mixing up two different things. 
* from 1813 to 1918, there were "female" Iron Crosses awarded for women who gave their jewellery for the war effort ("I gave gold for iron").
* the Nazis gave out the "Mother Cross" for women who had born more than 4 children.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.162.47.86 (talk) 16:19, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Mother's Iron Cross

message: in the section 'Second World War' it is said that "Hitler did not care for the Pour le Mérite..."
i am unsure as how to correct this (or if it is even necessary) but the use of the word 'care' seems too casual for a encyclopedia. is it just me?
lets add some bigger words!
Not the same one (talk) 01:32, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: colloquial useage of 'care'

message: Please note that I am not familiar with Wikipedia editing anymore. I have not been on in years. However, reference note 7 is no longer valid and points to a portal page. - MikeCNN  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mikecnn (talk • contribs) 06:13, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Missing Reference/Note

message: It might seem a ridiculous question, but - seriously - what were iron crosses historically made with? Presumably iron - but was this always the case, and were they 100% iron, or coated with something? Were other materials used during wartime? Are the crosses still made of iron, or something more corrosion-resistant? And why iron? As far as I can tell the article doesn't mention this, but in my opinion it's bad form to take anything for granted. I'm sure earlier versions of the article mentioned that it was cast in zinc and aluminium, but perhaps my memory is fading.-Ashley Pomeroy (talk) 17:26, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, the black core of the award was made from cast iron. Iron was chosen because of the the material's symbolic value in wartime and because of its obvious simplicity (it was the first German order to be awarded without regard of class or rank). The mounting was made of silver. There are some models of the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with a golden mounting, although this was against the order's rules. Goering had his Grand Cross made with a platinum mounting.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.162.47.86 (talk) 16:30, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Materials 

message: The article ignores the connection to the Holocaust and other Nazi crimes which makes it biased pro-Nazi.
http://www.zeit.de/2008/24/Eisernes-Kreuz 
Compare Erich von dem Bach-Zelewski#German military awards and trophies, Service record of Reinhard Heydrich#Nazi and Axis awards/decorations Xx234 (talk) 12:25, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  German critics 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Iron Cross. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20141216145115/http://www.bundestag.de/ausschuesse/a02/uebersicht_abgeschlossen/BGR_16-00101.pdf to http://www.bundestag.de/ausschuesse/a02/uebersicht_abgeschlossen/BGR_16-00101.pdf
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
Cheers. —cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 09:28, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: "Iron Cross" is a military decoration. The "Black Cross" is the emblem used by the German army, which happens to have the same design as the medal given with the decoration. But "Iron Cross" is not the term for the "Black Cross" emblem. 
The latter is treated under :de:Schwarzes Kreuz (Symbol) on de-wiki. --dab (𒁳) 10:30, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I tried to clean up the confusion. I realize that the emblem is also commonly called "Iron Cross", and that's fine, but it will be important to remain aware of the double meaning and keep the two meanings as cleanly separated as possible. --dab (𒁳) 13:23, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Confusion of emblem with decoration

message: Other sections do not include such lists; preserving this material here by providing this link. K.e.coffman (talk) 00:53, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unneeded list of recipients 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Iron Cross. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110708083604/http://www.borcke.com/upload/dokumente/Generle_v._Borcke.pdf to http://www.borcke.com/upload/dokumente/Generle_v._Borcke.pdf
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 18:35, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The Ehrenzeichen der Bundeswehr (Badge of Honor of the German Armed Forces) series was instituted on 10 October 2008.
:Has anyone been awarded this decoration, so far? Valetude (talk) 02:18, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Modern version 

message: I agree, there are too many images. Which ones should we remove? – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 19:17, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I would suggest seeing which images are good for a certain area of prose as an illustration and leaving those there, moving any that don't need the context of prose to a gallery. Also, some should be moved to the left of the page to reduce clutter on the right. DesertPipeline (talk) 02:44, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

text: Most of them. There is no need for the pictures of people wearing the Iron Cross or most of the graphic versions either. Most of the images are in the Commons gallery, so images can always bee re-added should the need arrive. Skjoldbro (talk) 11:59, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too many images 

message: “Iron cross” is a common noun and therefore doesn’t need a capital.--Alex Mitchell of The Goodies (talk) 03:46, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it's a proper noun, the name of a specific military decoration, just like Purple Heart and Order of Canada. Wikignome Wintergreentalk 16:13, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Capitalization problems… 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
* 
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 12:08, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion