Talk:List of minor government agents in 24/Archive 1

message: Ellis was not a CTU agent, so what is he doing on this list? He should be on the list of minor 24 characters.Richard75 01:52, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Robert Ellis 

message: His name is spelled Stiles with an I, not a Y. Refer to 24 official website profiles for confirmation. --MistahWhippy  —Preceding comment was added at 07:20, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edgar Stiles 

message: :Image:Darrenrichards.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 05:07, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fair use rationale for Image:Darrenrichards.JPG 

message: The section about Milo is written in the wrong tense.  Could someone please edit it?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Phoenixfan (talk • contribs) 02:27, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Milo tense 

message: The quality of the merged articles is noticably poor. There should be an active effort to bring them to the quality they held when they had thier own pages. If it is possible ,we should copy the old information from the old pages and replace the garbage currently here. MoChan (talk) 00:25, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you tell me what, if anything, this has to do with the article!?  This talk page is for discussion of article content not how much you liked the show.--Oni Ookami AlfadorTalk|@ 04:10, 20 November 2007 
(UTC)
To Oni, when did I talk about how much I liked the show? I was talking about how much I liked the character of Lynn McGill. And is it really necessary for you to be so confrontational? The article is about Lynn McGill, and that is what I was discussing. Is there a problem with that? Angelriver (talk) 09:04, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quality 

message: I've read both of the entries causing this dispute.  Both of them are not written as opinions.  As far as I'm concerned, this entry needs to be unlocked, and the users who have caused this fiasco need to be blocked from editing it for some time.  Stop acting like children and grow up.  This is Wikipedia.
Mr Congeniality (talk) 00:51, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regarding the dispute in progress 

message: Lynn McGill (played by Sean Astin) was a director of CTU during day 5.
McGill was portrayed as very by-the-book leader and was seen to take this beyond reasonable levels. This led to conflicts with other colleagues but also to the correct identification of a code sent by Jack Bauer during a hostage crisis. During the day McGill met with his sister who regulaly borrowed money from him. McGill was mugged and had his wallet stolen by his sister's boyfriend. The wallet was then sold on to terroists for McGill's access card. This led to increased erratic beheaviour by McGill, who was removed by Curtis Manning for being unable to discharge his duties effectivly.
McGill's access card was used to release nerve gas into CTU, this made McGill increibly guilty as he had failed to inform anyone in enough time. McGill was in a holding cell which was sealed off from the gas and watched colleagues die. McGill sacrificed himself to enable the remaining CTU agents in secure areas to survive, by exiting the holding cell and disabaling the rouge software.
This is my version of the Lynn McGill section please crtique it professionally and not childishly and irrationally.--Lucy-marie (talk) 14:38, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  McGill version to critique not insult 

message: Lucy-Marie, why are you changing this?  What difference does it make when every entry has a different style? And if you're going to change it, why don't you see that you're not adding a necessary space at the same time?  This is indeed meddlesome. TunaSushi (talk) 20:44, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Portrayed / Played by 

message: Lucy-marie, why on earth are you removing "he" and "his" and replacing it with surnames? Do you know what a pronoun is? TunaSushi (talk) 22:12, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of pronouns 

message: Would someone please explain why the rational of trying to put every single CTU character into this article as Lucy-marie is trying to do?  “24” is not the Jack Bauer Power Hour.  There are other main characters on the show, some who were on for 3 or more seasons.  Merging over a dozen articles into this one would make it unreadable in the extreme. --MiB-24 (talk) 23:26, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger Tags 

message: Okay, everything's rewritten.  I think I got all the typos, grammar errors, and mangled English. Style's much better. TunaSushi (talk) 07:53, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rewrite 

message: Maybe this would go easier if the definition of "minor" was fleshed out more fully.  For instance, I don't believe that Lynn McGill is minor.  His article should have remained unmerged.  McGill impacted the day in very significant ways, altering the course of events with very dire repercussions for many hours to follow.  That he appeared in only one season isn't necessarily criteria for "minor" relegation.
However, McGill's guard Harry Swinton (not even on this list yet) most definitely is minor.  He had some key dialog and a poignant moment, but his actions and presence are far less substantial and barely impact the series.
Perhaps a three-tier system of a character's importance could be implemented:
; Primary characters : This category would include series stars with multiple-season story arcs (e.g., Jack Bauer, Tony Almedia, and Chloe O'Brian), or characters featured with significant impact on current events (e.g. Bill Buchanan, Nadia Yassir, and Morris O'Brien).  These characters have their own articles.
; Secondary characters :  Listed in this class would be characters with significant impact or importance, but are now deceased, or have limited or no role in current events.  These characters may or may not have their own page with significantly more detail than allowed in the merged page (e.g., Chase Edmunds, Lynn McGill, George Mason, and Paula Schaeffer).  Their presence here is more of a summary so the reader can choose to click a link for more information.
; Minor characters : Characters of minor importance are listed here (e.g., Harry Swinton, Tom Baker, and Eric Richards).  These people would not have their own article as their impact and significance are insubstantial.
The nomenclature of the categories can be improved, if anyone has ideas. This may lead to further nutty Wiki policing, but at least it would leave standalone articles intact. 70.22.154.184 17:07, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Comment: TunaSushi, you've got my support, and I'm willing to help in whatever way I can. Angelriver 21:36, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Comment: That's true, but neither is it the dictatorship that she seems to think it is. Angelriver 22:20, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

text: The first part of the final senence is fine but why should the actor/actress them self have a bearing on a fictional charatcer. The character should be inculded in the actor/actress page. The actor/actress should not (ammended insert) be used as justification for a fiction charcters notability.--Lucy-marie 13:27, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That paragraph makes no sense. In the first sentence, you ask why an actor/actress should have bearing on a fictional character. Then, in the last sentence, you say that the actor/actress should be used to justify notability of the fictional character. Please clarify what you are trying to say. Angelriver 14:36, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You are misrepresenting what i am saying. The question there is rhetorical. I have then proceeded to set out my point on the question. Please try and read the context of each sentence rather than oooh you asked a question to start with then contradicted your self by giving an answer. It is clear that a genuine typing mistake was made in the reply.--Lucy-marie 14:52, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am not misrepresenting anything, Lucy. I quoted you verbatim and asked you  for clarification. And might I point out, that every post you make has typing mistakes. If you didn't make so many typing errors, then maybe your comments wouldn't be taken out of context. Your comments didn't make sense to me then, and your latest one doesn't do anything to help clarify what point you were trying to make. Angelriver 15:04, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

text: What I meant when I said that information on the actor should be included was a section on the portrayal of the character, not just some random information on the actor. It adds a real-world perspective to the article. Regards, Ladida 22:34, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Definition of Minor / Proposal for Better Classification 

message: Someone has been going through this article and considerably shortening the  merged sections.  Edgar, Milo, Chase, and George, among others, all need to have longer sections.  Many important bits of information are getting erased here.  I've tried to expand some but it reverts back to even worse then before.  Whoever's doing this (and I have a very good idea who) stop please.  If the articles must be merged then at least allow them to have more than the skin and bones it is now.--Phoenixfan 18:25, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too short sections 

message: Now that all of those ridiculous, unsupported mergers have been halted, what do you all think of restoring some of the more notable characters and undoing some of the heavy-handed--and unnecessary--merging that has taken place recently? I would like to see Lynn McGill, Chase Edmunds, George Mason and Edgar Stiles returned to their rightful place as major characters, and will personally research links to prove that these characters were notable and had an impact on the show.
Let's discuss this and see if we can reach a consensus on which characters should be restored.Angelriver 20:25, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please be aware that similar characters which were "major", such as Michael Amador and Syed Ali had there own page. Had to be merged or they would have ben deleted under the criteria that they were not notable t.v characters.--Lucy-marie 21:49, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: For one thing, I doubt that anyone here would classify George Mason as being in the same league as a couple of terrorists. I see no problem with the fact that those two characters were merged. But all of these other characters like George and Edgar, Chase and Lynn, ARE notable and DID have impact on the show. Your opinion of notable is different from mine, and that's fine, but you should stop trying to force your preference on everyone else. The characters whom I've requested to have reinstated were NOT minor characters in everyone's estimation. That is why I'm trying to see if consensus, and community support, can be reached rather than just trying to ram my preference down everyone's throat as you tried to do with this entire merging spree you were on. And once again, Lucy, please remember to sign your posts. Angelriver 00:06, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

text: I would support unmerging Chase Edmunds, George Mason, and Edgar Stiles.  I really can’t agree on Lynn McGill.  Yes he was important for a few episodes of Season 5, but not really that many.  The rest of the characters all contributed for at least an entire season if not more and their deaths/departures had a lasting affect on the show. --MiB-24 00:28, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I understand your point. The reason I thought Lynn deserved to be un-merged was due to the fact that his character had such a huge and far reaching impact on CTU as well as the other characters. In fact, had it not been for Lynn's sacrifice, all of the other major characters would be dead; Jack, Chloe, Bill, Kim and Audrey. But I understand that not everyone sees this issue the same way. The other characters, though, really do need to have their independent pages restored. Angelriver 00:35, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: McGill falls right at the boundary between deserving his own page and being listed here.  I can see your point on it, but I just can’t come out to support this specific character.  The others should have never been merged to begin with. --MiB-24 02:53, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Completely agree with you on the other three characters, and from what I can tell, Lucy didn't have community agreement when she merged those articles either. I think that alone makes them a likely candidate for restoration. Angelriver 03:19, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

text: I support the restoration of Lynn McGill, Chase Edmunds, and George Mason.  I'm a little iffy on Edgar Stiles.  His death was horrible and poignant, but his character didn't really seem all that important to me.  On the other hand, I like what was said earlier about Lynn McGill - "McGill impacted the day in very significant ways, altering the course of events with very dire repercussions for many hours to follow." I think that speaks to notability and merits restoration of his own article. TunaSushi 14:04, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd stay Edgar deserves to be restored.  For one thing, he was a regular cast member.  Secondly, he played a prominent role in season 4, exposing Marianne and helping to stop the nuclear meltdowns.  He had less to do in season 5 (which is rather ironic, considering that's when he was promoted from recurring to regular) but I don't think that undermines his contribution to season 4.  If we're supporting Lynn for resoration, then Edgar deserves it as well.  (There are a couple of other characters I'd recommend for restoration, but I'd like to settle these before we get to them.)--T smitts (talk) 06:02, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Restoration of Major Characters