Talk:Zune/Archive 3

message: That whole section, why does it matter to me, the common reader?  That section gives absolutely nothing to the article other than someone trying to find criticism.  Those two sources, perhaps the Infoworld article, but not the SND article, are totally respectable.  Either way, I think it's honestly a stupid section that could rather be expanded on criticism of the actual product, not an obscure reference to a similarity in a foreign language.  Instead, it would be better to find criticism on how it doesn't attempt to bridge music networks or something.  --MPD01605 (T / C) 02:32, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I find the criticisms of the name to be pretty silly (and irrelevant) as well. And we certainly shouldn't have to dig for criticism, especially regarding the 3-days or 3-plays rule, which has ruffled a lot of people's feathers. BJ Nemeth 15:21, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

text: The licensing deal with Universal is definitely relevant, because this article is about the entire Zune ecosystem. Once we break this article up into multiple articles (it's inevitable), it should be incorporated into the general Zune article, rather than the article about this first generation Zune product. 68.218.103.10 19:12, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Relevant to the 'Zune Ecosystem'? Yes. But, I don't understand how the licensing deal falls under the criticism category. Licensing deals are not uncommon. All we know about it is that they are paying money, yet a downside is not listed or spoken about. How is it a good or bad thing?70.18.46.234 20:29, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it would be wise on my part to point out that when I posted this section, the title of the Criticism section was "Criticism of the name "Zune"", not just "Criticism", and only talked about the far-flung coincidence that it sounded like a naughty word in Hebrew.  That's what I was griping about.  But the section has expanded (fortunately), and the part about the naming criticism still remains.  If there's no objection, I'm going to remove those parts since they are barely sourced and IMHO, quite irrelevant. --MPD01605 (T / C) 21:01, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree that the name criticism is so minor that it doesn't deserve mention in this article. If the Zune succeeds for the most part, but fails in certain foreign markets, and legitimate analysts cite this as a possible reason, then the name criticism becomes relevant. BJ Nemeth 01:39, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

text: David Pouge of the New York Times is a well-known technology critic and has been cited a few times in the article.TheSniperZERO 01:51, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  The licensing deal is relevant because it represents a new direction for the deals between content companies (Universal) and hardware/software companies (Microsoft). This is a landmark deal that implies that content companies are owed a piece of hardware sales. By the same logic, this "tax" should be also be applied to TVs, radios, computers, cellphones, and anything else that plays music or videos. There have already been several articles written about this deal in a negative way (which makes it "Criticism"), and when I have the time, I'll add them as sources. BJ Nemeth 01:39, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism of the name "Zune" 

message: Due to the recent vandalism, I think that this page deserves to be protected from the continuous of vandals.Samsoncity 15:46, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request for protection 

message: Recent reviews from sites, like Engadget, indicate that the Zune does NOT, in fact, accept DivX/XviD or H.264 codecs and that the software transcodes video from whichever format you're using into WMV (@320x240).
http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/15/zune-review/
Kakomu 22:02, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Video Codecs 

message: On further consideration, I'm removing:
:(People unassociated with Microsoft have published an unsanctioned modification of the Windows OS that appears to allow the current version of Zune to operate as an external hard drive: 
Here's why. The context is a criticism of Zune for lacking an obvious feature that virtually all competitive MP3 players have. 
The statement... originally made in a stronger form... says that it is possible, with a fairly simple Windows hack (a Registry edit) to make the Zune function as an external hard drive. As an aside, without being privy to Microsoft's internal decision making, we have no way of knowing whether this is what it seems to be. On the face of it, the publishers of the hack presume that everything is what it appears to be: make the Registry edit and your Zune will function reliably as an external drive. But there's no way of knowing whether everything is what it appears to be. Perhaps the Zune drive will wear out or fail or cause corruption of music files if used in this way. Perhaps some Zune drives have firmware revisions on which this works properly and others don't. But that's not the point.
The point is, in context, this hack is presented as an answer to a criticism. But it is not a valid answer. If product A, when installed and configured as specified by the manufacturer, without modification, cannot perform function B, it is irrelevant that someone knows a possible way to modify product A to enable it to do B.
If a car is criticized for taking 11.6 seconds to go from 0 to 60 mph, it is not an answer to say that you can make it go 0 to 60 in 9.2 seconds by rechipping the engine. If a Toyota Prius is criticized because it is not a "plug-in hybrid"--there is no way to charge the traction battery from house current--it is not an answer to say that numerous hobbyists have found ways to do so.
To say the Zune can be used as a hard drive because you can modify Windows to make it do this reminds me of the old joke:
"What's green, hangs on the wall, and whistles?"
"I give up."
"A red herring."
"But, it isn't green."
"So? You could paint it green."
"But it doesn't hang on the wall."
"What? There's a law says you can't hang it on the wall?"
"But it doesn't whistle."
"Nu, so it doesn't whistle."
Dpbsmith (talk) 19:52, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Use-as-a-hard-drive hack

message: So that means its faster then the PSP and iPod right? So we could be seeing games on it? --Elven6 02:01, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  400MHZ Procesor? 

message: There's a few things I was wondering that the article hadn't really answered for me (or maybe I missed it) and was wondering if there were answers to. If there are, it'd be nice to add in! Particularly, I am wondering:
1) I thought I remember reading that you could stream music to other Zune users. I don't know if this has any relationship to the 3play/day thing (or if particular streams would also be restricted from DRM). This August article mentions the streaming capability though (apparently to a max of 4 other Zune users). I don't see this mentioned in the current Wiki... but things may have changed...  
2) What is the proximity one has to be within for his/her Zune to sense another Zune? 
3) I'm not too tech-savvy... but could updatable firmware mean that it may allow the Zune to eventually upgrade itself to allow wifi-with-computer, and changes to its 3play/day feature? (As opposed to buying a new Zune) Maybe this isn't answerable at this point, but would be cool to eventually find out anyway. 
Thanks! -- Shadowolf 10:59, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: (1) The DJ/streaming feature was proposed during development (and mentioned to the media), but it is not in the version 1 product that hit stores this week. My suspicion is that Microsoft is giving in to all of the demands of the record labels (Microsoft has zero leverage in this market), and the labels were uncomfortable with that feature. It's also possible that Microsoft couldn't get it working reliably enough, in which case it might show up as a future feature. (2) I've read that the max distance for Zunes to communicate to each other is about 50 feet. (We should confirm this and add it to the article.) (3) Updateable firmware really isn't that special -- the iPod has it too. The features you mention are possible through firmware updates, but there are no promises from Microsoft about specific features. (Although they have explicitly stated that podcast support is coming eventually.) If I were you, I wouldn't make a purchase based on "potential" future features. When you buy a product like this, make your decision based on what's available NOW. If other features are added to your device in the future, consider that a bonus. BJ Nemeth 03:40, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks alot for answering my questions, and for the suggestion. That was extremely helpful! =) -- Shadowolf 05:02, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Questions 

message: It'd be great if a Wikipedian who has a Zune can photograph the device (preferably on a white background) and use it in place of the current promotional image. That way, we can avoid using the fair-use image, and just rely on one done in house. What do other people think? –-  kungming·2 (Talk) 04:11, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That is of course, assuming someone bought a Zune. And judging from the sales of the device at my local retailers (almost zero sold, I think), I think it's going to be hard. –-  kungming·2 (Talk) 04:26, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

text: There are already free images available, and one has even been uploaded to Commons already. Dancter 21:54, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think this picture would be good for the purpose of this article. –-  kungming·2 (Talk) 22:26, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Except that the image may not actually be free, in which case it isn't much better than the image that is currently up. There's no source information for the image. It even looks suspiciously like the promotional image, but with the screen image edited out. Dancter 22:49, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's true. I could edit the other picture so that it works for the article. (Zune iPod,jpg) –-  kungming·2 (Talk) 01:28, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I've now uploaded an image from Flickr under a Creative Commons Attribution 2.0 license. It may not be the best, cleanest, most professional one shot there is, but it's IMHO better than nothing at least. I found one slightly more "professional"-looking image under a similar license, but I found this one more useful as it had the connector on display as well, giving the reader some sense of scale as can imagine how large a connector may be, but perhaps not the device if there's nothing at all for visual comparison otherwise. -- Northgrove 16:57, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've reverted back to the image you uploaded. While there are better ones out there that also seem to carry legitimate free licenses, this one's already been uploaded, and can be used in the meantime. (While the presence of the small Zune logo on the connector, as well as the stuff on the screen could have copyright issues, the photograph itself is freely licensed. It should be possible to edit out the problematic elements to make the image okay.) Several other images that were uploaded to Commons seem to be simply modifications of images that aren't freely licensed, which doesn't make them free. Dancter 03:04, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regarding Zune picture 

message: There is a rumor going around that Microsoft is taking the same stratagy with Zune as it did with Xbox- infiltrate the market, and then grab a larger share each generation. I'm not sure if this is a realistic position yet, but we should be on the look out for facts that could validate this. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.39.132.78 (talk • contribs) .
It's not a rumor; it's true, as reported by MSNBC : http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15934322/page/2/ (7th paragraph down).  Anyone think we should add this in somewhere?WasAPasserBy 03:05, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It still sounds like a rumour in the MSNBC article.  MSNBC could be assuming what Microsoft is doing, they don't source the paragraph, and I don't think Microsoft would admit to it.  I bought an Xbox for reasons, and I'd still buy an iPod.  The Zune's confusing.  I don't think we should put it in the article unless it becomes apparent that that's what MS's strategy/hope is. --MPD01605 (T / C) 04:12, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think it will ever be apparent (not for a few years or until the next-gen Zune) what MS's strategy is.  While the paragraph, taken as an entity, does sound like speculation, when taken in context (with the plain factual interview w/ J), it comes out sounding pretty factual.  Also, MSNBC rarely will specifically source one paragraph.  However, I will concede to waiting for further references before adding this piece of information.  Cheers! WasAPasserBy 00:09, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Xbox Stratagy 

message: I'm thinking the infobox would be a great place to mention which formats the Zune can play.  This is a major deciding factor between the Zune and something like the iPod. - JustinWick 03:35, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox improvement 

message: The official announcement was on September 14, but the name was in fact leaked/revealed on June 11. None of the sites I've seen looked up were registered before then. --Tom Edwards 20:22, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmmm...  That's July 11th.  Same day as many of these registrations. --BenBurch 00:07, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sites weren't registered before the name was known

message: So with the Zune is it possible that you can (now or in the future) install different software for it (ala lunix on the ipod)? It seems like the hardware is pretty good and has some clever ideas, but the DRM just makes it unusable to me. --Xercessthegreat 19:30, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No clue yet.  You might head over to http://www.slashdot.org/ and post an "Ask Slashdot" item on this. --BenBurch 00:06, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  software and hacks 

message: I'm not sure the Costco comment--as it's written--is justified, considering the $239.99 has *always* been their price since the player's introduction (they ARE a warehouse store, after all, and MSFT apparently hasn't tried fixing the price of the Zune as they have previously with the Xbox/Xbox 360), and others, including Apple, Nintendo, Sony, etc., have with their various electronics.
Moreover, Costco also sells the 30GB 5.5G iPod for the same price. Monoblocks 18:14, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pricing comment 

message: On further consideration, I'm removing:
:(People unassociated with Microsoft have published an unsanctioned modification of the Windows OS that appears to allow the current version of Zune to operate as an external hard drive:
Here's why. The context is a criticism of Zune for lacking an obvious feature that virtually all competitive MP3 players have. 
The statement... originally made in a stronger form... says that it is possible, with a fairly simple Windows hack (a Registry edit) to make the Zune function as an external hard drive. 
But, in context, this hack is presented as if it could be an answer to the criticism. But it is not a valid answer. If product A, when installed and configured as specified by the manufacturer, without modification, cannot perform function B, it is irrelevant that someone knows a possible way to modify product A to enable it to do B.
If a car is criticized for taking 11.6 seconds to go from 0 to 60 mph, it is not an answer to say that you can make it go 0 to 60 in 9.2 seconds by rechipping the engine. If a Toyota Prius is criticized because it is not a "plug-in hybrid"--there is no way to charge the traction battery from house current--it is not an answer to say that numerous hobbyists have found ways to do so.
To say the Zune can be used as a hard drive because you can modify Windows to make it do this reminds me of the old joke:
"What's green, hangs on the wall, and whistles?"
"I give up."
"A red herring."
"But, it isn't green."
"So? You could paint it green."
"But it doesn't hang on the wall."
"What? There's a law says you can't hang it on the wall?"
"But it doesn't whistle."
"Nu, so it doesn't whistle."
Dpbsmith (talk) 19:53, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Use-as-a-hard-drive hack