Talk:Quebec diaspora

message: User:Boffob had inserted a "weasel" tag without explanation which I removed. He immediately inserted a "story" tag , again without giving an explantion. This is his 'opinion which I disagree with and his explantion is required here. D. C. Thomas 21:39, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I did give an explanation in my edit summary. From the "had had roots for centuries" to the "economic powerhouse", the "so-called allophone", the entry is overly poetic, sounds emotionally involved and is not neutral. It is a tone issue mostly, a bit too lyrical towards the anglophone inhabitants. It's an inevitable issue with historical/political articles relating to Quebec, because a number of editors from either perspective try to insert, sometimes subliminally, their own POV (painting their own side as victims while portraying the opposing side as abusing their power, sometimes through weasel words).--Boffob 22:45, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

text: OK then. I shall dispute the neutrality of the article (that's not a third revert, but a new edit in good faith). The tone is waxing poetic and paints the English and Scot Quebecers as the only contributors to the building and economic history of the province: "Those anglophone Quebecers [...] where 18th century English and Scots-Quebecer immigrant entrepreneurs, and their descendants, had built the business infrastructure that allowed the province to keep pace with the growth in the United States and turned Montreal into an economic powerhouse and the finance capital of all Canada". This attribution is misleading and clearly not neutral. Hopefully you understand that this tag should stay until the dispute is resolved.--Boffob 00:33, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Let me put it this way then. The first part of the article does not go into the history of the French-speaking community in Quebec and how those who left for New-England were the descendants of the brave and hard-working men and women who first settled the place. In fact, it doesn't say a word about the history of that community at all. Why? Because it's unncessary, overly lyrical and POV. That's why the Anglophone exodus section shouldn't do this either.--Boffob 01:30, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Unwarranted tagging

message: While it is true that there have been migrations of French-Speaking Quebecers throughout history, these warrant a separate article from the Anglo-Quebecer migration which took place in the second half on the last century. Please consider the following article: Interprovincial Migration by Language Groups Province of Quebec, 1966-1991.
Some have ventured to say that there "was no" Anglophone exodus. Yet, here it is clearly proven by statistics that twice as many Anglophone Quebecers left the province during this period as Francophone Quebecers did. This is severely compounded by the fact that Anglophones make up about 10% of Quebec's population. So, the English migration during this period is much more important both in relation to the Francophone migration and in relation to the Anglophone community. It must be thought of in relation to the Anglophone community rather than to Quebec as a whole. The importance of this exodus must be recognized: 450 000 Anglophones leaving, out of a population of perhaps less than one million at the time. Compare this to the 220 000 French Quebecers who left, out of a population of six million! Even more compelling is the fact that, factoring in both English and French migration into Quebec, the net loss of Francophones was just 40 000 over this whole period, compared to a net loss of nearly 300 000 Anglophones. Furthermore, these newly arrived Anglophones tend to be, in my personal experience, from Ontario, the rest of Canada, or the US, and not returning Anglo-Quebecers. They therefore have little connection to Quebec's English community and often shun it in favour of the Francophone culture that they consider more appealing or mysterious. There are Americans who have lived in Montreal for years, assimilating into the French community and hardly knowing about any Anglo-Quebec one. The reason is simple: these newly arrived Anglophones come from an Anglophone majority, and English holds no special fascination for them.
Anyway, the point is that these new arrivals may or may not truly count as members of the Anglophone community in the same way that native-born English Quebecers do. However, either way, there has been a real, undeniable, and dramatic exodus of English speakers from Quebec. The reasons for this English migration are different than the reasons for Francophone migration, and the exodus cannot be attributed to economic booms in the rest of Canada. Rather, the exodus happened for socio-political reasons, and the economic boom elsewhere in Canada made it all the more possible for these people to leave. An Anglophone Exodus article is necessary to properly describe this occurence, which is distinct from the various Francophone migrations which have occured throught the years.
However, that is not to say that the Anglophone Exodus should not be included here. It is rather to say that this article should talk specifically about what its title describes: the diaspora of Quebec-born people, be they English or French speaking, living throughout the world and their achievements and struggles. There should be a separate Article describing how they got there: one for the Anglophone Exodus and one for the various Francophone Migrations (forced or not) that have affected Quebec (perhaps something like Quebec Migration, or something more specific since that would have to mention the Anglophone Exodus as it occured in Quebec).
Whatever the outcome, I would like to state my displeasure at some comments that I've read, not necessarily here but all over Wikipedia, which deny the Anglophone migration out of Quebec ever happened. In fact, it is proven statisitcally, not only in relation to Francophone migration (that is, twice as many Anglophons left as Francophones) but in relation to the English minority (that is, a huge percentage/nearly half of it). Further proof of the exodus: How do you think Toronto got bagels and culture?--70.55.60.176 15:17, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Anglophone Exodus

message: I put the dubious tag because, while there's no doubt a number of anglophones left in the seventies and after, that population essentially cut all ties to Quebec, keeping none of the cultural elements that would distinguish it from the rest of the anglophone population of Canada, and as such does not qualify as a diaspora, in the sense of, say, the Italian diaspora and Irish diaspora.--Boffob (talk) 05:23, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Gonna stay away from that one; suffice to say it's a term that's curernt in Canadian historical wrir5ing and medai scripts et al.Skookum1 (talk) 05:31, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dubious 

message: I nearly put this as an inline comment, but it's a long issue:
:--some of this would include American Metis, and I think the same is try in Missouri - though not by that name, and also Oregon/Wash/Montana/Idaho - in MT;/ID with native bloo, though not Metis in the usual sense; all though there as part of HBC/NWC operations, not French territory; also many Upper Canadian French who elft le pays bas wehn it became British/UEL/anglo,in MN and MI it makes perfect sense; there was some settlement there, adn teh french weren't shy of intermarraige with Native Americans oand also typically had large families.  Upper Caanada was not as settled as Lower Canada during New France's time, but tehre was some settlement south of the Lakes and out around the MIssisppi; even an individual can leave a few hundred descdants in that time span...."significant" can still be fractional because identifiable. or self-identifiable; they are no doubt far outnumberef by Eastern  and Northern Europeans....`Skookum1 (talk) 05:31, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Francophones in the MidWest/Far West

message: My reason for includeing htat, which I guess I shied frmo the full syntax on as it might have come across POV, was to point out that they are now dominantly francophone.Skookum1 (talk) 14:52, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Eastern Townships / "Cantons de l'Est" 

message: While I cannot say I dislike Mademoiselle Jolie's pretty face, on the contrary, I think there ought to be some other image we can use that would be more appropriate to the subject, like a photograph of a passenger train crossing the border or the neighbourhood of a major town known to have been (or to be) inhabited/built by Quebecers. -- Mathieugp (talk) 00:26, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Better image? 

message: The edit concerned Quebeqois emigration to France. There was no reference cited. In addition, untranslated French was key to understanding the edit--inappropriate for an English language encyclopedia. Further, the editor was banned 3 days after the addition for sock puppetry. Enough. Tapered (talk) 01:33, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Deletion of latest edit

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