Category talk:Ukrainian murder victims

message: I don't see why we need this category. In history there were millions of murdered Ukrainians. Hundreds, if not thousands of them are notable enough for a Wikipedia. What is the purpose to dump them all in the cat by the fact that they were all murdered. Correct me if I am wrong, but the very purpose of the categories is for people who might be interested in a general topic to find the articles they might want to read. I can see someone interested in Ukrainian literature going to the :Category:Ukrainian writers to see what articles are there to read, edit or missing (to write), someone interested in Ukrainian politics would for the same reason go to :Category:Ukrainian politicians, someone interested in Ukrainian fine art would go to :Category:Ukrainian artists and so on. Why would anyone go to category:Ukrainian murder victims? Same applies to Category:Russian murder victims. What do other think? --Irpen 20:05, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There is a category :Category:Murder victims by nationality. Among them many nationalities. If you manage to convince all of them to remove their subcategories - then we can remove Ukrainian as well.--Bryndza 20:51, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Look, if others do stupid stuff we don't have to repeat after them. Do you have any good reasons to articulate on why we need this cat? I explained why we don't and I am open to other ideas. I am more conserned about the topics I care for. If others do something, I can't get involved into everything. Now, the question remains, why do we need the cat? And a subquestion, who will define which of the killings are murders. I guess, executions are often not murders. Who will designate? Proper terms is important: not every killing is right to call "murder", not every mass murder is right to call "massacre" and/or "Genocide". This is the terminology that is very prone to POV disagreement. But that's secondary. What is the use of the cat is more importan. Anyone? --Irpen 21:02, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: However, this generally accepted in Wikipedia. Practically all murder victims added in determined to categories. See Igor Talkov, John Lennon, Anne Frank, Tupac Shakur, Aleksandr Pushkin -- Yakudza 22:46, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

text: The way I use this category - I open it every morning, click on every name in it and read carefully who killed those Ukrainians. And I see that they were killed by Russian, Jews, Poles. I hate all these murderers more and more. Plus this adds to my already encyclopedic knowledge on crimes committed by Russia. Of course, other users may find other ways to use the information - for example to count how many nasty Ukrainian nationalists were killed and estimate how many more are left. But do not bother Irpen - you "can't get involved into everything", so please relax and go and exercise in your eloquence somewhere else.--Bryndza 03:19, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No doubts that those people also belong to subcategories you just named, but I think they also definitely belong to :Category:Murder victims by nationality. One can dispute if it is necessary or not. I think it is. And it seems like editors from all nations listed in it also think so. This is just another level of categorization. There are categories that sort by occupation, this one sorts by nationality. If one would like to see all Ukrainians killed independent of their occupation - he will check this one. I find it quite logical. Actualy - many people think so if you see how many nations it contains. 
Now about definition of murder. Really, I would not include here Tymish Khmel'nyts'kyy, and anybody else who died in a battle. Execution of captured person (rebels too), killings of polititians, journalist, etc. - they are.--Bryndza 04:34, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Is this category needed?