Talk:Menıñ Qazaqstanym

message: obviously, someone should cut the Borat translation out. Could you link an MIDI or MP3?
--PeerBr 08:07, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Already done! Thanks! --PeerBr 08:07, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Don't connected to Turkish Page : http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakistan_Ulusal_Mar%C5%9F%C4%B1  —Preceding unsigned comment added by MaviAteş (talk • contribs) 14:43, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Turkish Page link 

message: I see that the redirects to this page include "Kazakhstani national anthem" but not "Kazakh national anthem".  Is "Kazakh national anthem" not the correct term?  Or am I missing something?  Yaris678 (talk) 20:46, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Redirects to this page 

message: In the link section there's a YouTobe link to the Borat song. Someone remove it please, since the article is locked. Temp74e321 (talk) 21:18, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  remove Borat link 

message: This should have
-- 76.65.128.252 (talk) 08:22, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The disambiguation page only has two entries. What about a hatnote that says ? A boat that can float! (watch me float!) 12:42, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: That could work, but I've requested a rename at Talk:My Kazakhstan (song)... so if it moves, another request would be needed... -- 76.65.128.252 (talk) 02:36, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  Done It can be changed later if required. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 09:13, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Editsemiproteced 

message: *Support, per WP:UE. AP says "'Menin Khazakhstanym' or 'My Kazakhstan'" ("Khazahkstan's parliament vote for new national anthem", Jan. 6, 2006). Kauffner (talk) 12:38, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: "The original lyrics were modified by Nursultan Nazarbayev, the President of Kazakhstan, before the decree was issued."
If this is going to be mentioned, it might be a good idea to explain how the lyrics were modified. Tad Lincoln (talk) 03:16, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Modified lyrics 

message: Can anyone help me please? Lyric on page from Borat movie! Please, approve my changes. Original lyric, from goverment's site - http://www.akorda.kz/en/state_symbols/kazakhstan_anthem  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Xjr358 (talk • contribs) 15:52, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anthem Republic of Kazakhstan use lyric form Borat movie 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I noticed recently a change in the Latin script version of the National Anthem in that it's now based on the Revised Romanization of Korean. Now I don't know much about Kazakh's current Latin script situation or how it's going to be changed, but I'm fairly certain that it is not based on Revised Romanization right now. Could someone provide a source which states Kazakh's Latin script will be based on RR? If it shouldn't be like that, then the Latin script version should be changed back to its original version. Omegagmaster (talk) 22:32, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: It was another YouTuber, baek blackbeen, who altered the transliteration. He is new on Wikipedia. Korean and Kazakh does share some phonemes, and it was possible to transcribe Kazakh in the RR. NeuPommern (talk) 00:33, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Latin script version 

message: The original lyrics can by shown, but the various translation should not be shown here. Only an English one is enough, maybe languages like Chinese, Russian are even also proper to be shown for the Kazakh people in these countries... But what's the meaning of Bashkir, Turkish... The Pan-Turkic propaganda?Ulysses Faye Ohkiph (talk) 11:59, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Not to mention, those are not official languages of the country... what foolish editors... Zombie Dragon (talk) 12:48, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  My Opinion About Lyrics 

message: Formal request has been received to merge My Kazakhstan (1956 song) into Menin' Qazaqstanym; dated: November 2017. Proposer's Rationale: They are actually one thing with two different versions, and the former one is too long in its title, and too short in its main body. Discuss here. Richard3120 (talk) 19:35, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, the proposer is me. As everyone know, Kazakh law has only put the national anthem itself into public domain(see my sources above), but not the original song, especially the last verse which was discarded from the song. That causes the article of the original song useless, and inconvenience. The 1956 version might be a section in this article. Ulysses Faye Ohkiph (talk) 15:01, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: Menin' Qazaqstanym ---> Meniń Qazaqstanym in accordance with the new alphabet change yesterday or so. 66.76.2.61 (talk) 22:30, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. -- pne (talk) 08:28, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move. 

message: User:ScrapIronIV has relatively recently decided to remove the lyrics from this page, citing WP:LYRICS. I discussed the issue in detail on the user talk page (if the link expires). Based on the edit message provided ("Per WP:LYRICS - feel free to link to them on WP:COMMONS") and comments on the user page, I have understood that the idea is to transfer the lyrics out of Wikipedia onto another site of the Wikimedia project, such as Wikisource. However, User:ScrapIronIV has maintained that someone else must do the actual action of moving the content onto the other site and asks some other editor so in the edit message in question. 
I am opening the discussion here to get opinions from a wider range of users about whether the lyrics should stay on the site or be moved elsewhere. I've attempted to suggest adding a template like Copy section to Wikisource under the Lyrics section, but even this has apparently not been enough for User:ScrapIronIV, instead preferring to plaster this notice onto the edit message, where people are unlikely to notice it. I personally believe that the lyrics are fine as is on the article itself, but have nothing against moving them to Wikisource and linking the Wikisource page into the article concerning the national anthem. For this, I believe the ideal solution is to add the template I mentioned earlier under the section rather than delete it outright.
What do other users think? Should the anthem lyrics be moved to Wikisource or not? SURJECTION ·talk·contr·log· 21:28, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: What you said regarding the excessive length of the articles is valid. I am willing to compromise, and I feel that I am justified in saying this, if the primary lyrics are left intact with the addition of the English translation and the unofficial translations are moved to Wikisource with an indication of their destination. The reason the main lyrics are left is because, despite their unnecessity, the alternative is much-more inconvenient to readers. If we can agree to these terms, I will reformat the article accordingly at your command. We both want to end this war, and I believe this is the most reasonable solution; what say you? -User:Учхљёная (talk,philosophy,edits). 14:27, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  The unofficial translations should just be removed: they violate WP:OR, as they do not originate from a reliable source. As for the main lyrics, I argue having a single extra click is less "convenient for the readers". If anything, the otherwise succinct nature of the article gives all the sufficient information to readers and allows them to access the full lyrics (including an official English translation) to be just a click away. I do agree that a conflict like this with active edit wars is not productive (e: for) either party. SURJECTION ·talk·contr·log· 15:03, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  So, we can agree that the unofficial translations be removed. However, I would argue that the main lyrics be included because of the inherent nature of articles detailing songs, and, correct me if I'm wrong, there is nothing mandating that Anthem-articles meet a certain quality of "succinct"ness. We can add the official translation, or better yet, transclude what has been placed on Wikisource, but the primary Lyrics must not be deleted in whole from the article. -User:Учхљёная (talk,philosophy,edits). 15:10, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  "...the inherent nature of articles detailing songs..." Most Wikipedia articles about songs do not include the full lyrics. The primary reason to include them is to provide an interpretation . "...here is nothing mandating that Anthem-articles meet a certain quality of "succinct"ness..." There is; I linked it in the very beginning of this thread. The guideline in particular is WP:NOTLYRICS. I already picked out the important part above as well, which states that Wikisource is the ideal place for full lyrics. Compare this to other national anthem articles; God Save the Queen, for instance, includes lyrics and variations of thereof, but is also populated with other material and constitute at most 20% of the vertical space of the article. The official lyrics section alone takes 50%, and with the unreliable unofficial translations, 80% of the vertical space of the article. I do not see this as "reasonable length". SURJECTION ·talk·contr·log· 15:15, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

text: Thank you for the response. If I understood correctly, the lyrics provided in a more compact form should be included in the main article, even if the lyrics are available on Wikisource (with a link provided by a template)? SURJECTION ·talk·contr·log· 09:33, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  Correct. It's the sort of material that merits inclusion here, and raises no concerns of turning Wiki into something it's not (eg. a lyrics database). The only problem is the formatting, which needs to be subdued. Bear in mind that with time the article will grow around it (eg. with an "analysis" section), so even if it was slightly longer we could've included it with little disturbance to layout. François Robere (talk) 22:45, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of lyrics from the article 

message: The consensus has been to remove lyrics from national anthem articles if they constitute an excessive portion of the page's contents. While it may be argued that the official Kazakh and English versions of these lyrics do not constitute such an excessive section, including unofficial translations definitely does (and likely violates WP:OR). The lyrics can also be found on Wikisource, rendering having the lyrics on the main article itself unnecessary. For these reasons the lyrics section has been removed from the article. SURJECTION ·talk·contr·log· 21:44, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: What you said regarding the excessive length of the articles is valid. I am willing to compromise, and I feel that I am justified in saying this, if the primary lyrics are left intact with the addition of the English translation and the unofficial translations are moved to Wikisource with an indication of their destination. The reason the main lyrics are left is because, despite their unnecessity, the alternative is much-more inconvenient to readers. If we can agree to these terms, I will reformat the article accordingly at your command. We both want to end this war, and I believe this is the most reasonable solution; what say you? -User:Учхљёная (talk,philosophy,edits). 14:27, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  The unofficial translations should just be removed: they violate WP:OR, as they do not originate from a reliable source. As for the main lyrics, I argue having a single extra click is less "convenient for the readers". If anything, the otherwise succinct nature of the article gives all the sufficient information to readers and allows them to access the full lyrics (including an official English translation) to be just a click away. I do agree that a conflict like this with active edit wars is not productive (e: for) either party. SURJECTION ·talk·contr·log· 15:03, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  So, we can agree that the unofficial translations be removed. However, I would argue that the main lyrics be included because of the inherent nature of articles detailing songs, and, correct me if I'm wrong, there is nothing mandating that Anthem-articles meet a certain quality of "succinct"ness. We can add the official translation, or better yet, transclude what has been placed on Wikisource, but the primary Lyrics must not be deleted in whole from the article. -User:Учхљёная (talk,philosophy,edits). 15:10, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  "...the inherent nature of articles detailing songs..." Most Wikipedia articles about songs do not include the full lyrics. The primary reason to include them is to provide an interpretation . "...here is nothing mandating that Anthem-articles meet a certain quality of "succinct"ness..." There is; I linked it in the very beginning of this thread. The guideline in particular is WP:NOTLYRICS. I already picked out the important part above as well, which states that Wikisource is the ideal place for full lyrics. Compare this to other national anthem articles; God Save the Queen, for instance, includes lyrics and variations of thereof, but is also populated with other material and constitute at most 20% of the vertical space of the article. The official lyrics section alone takes 50%, and with the unreliable unofficial translations, 80% of the vertical space of the article. I do not see this as "reasonable length". SURJECTION ·talk·contr·log· 15:15, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent restoration of lyrics 

message: I'm asking for a third opinion on this issue, as I feel the edit warring has gone on for too long (even though the consensus so far is not have any lyrics (and yet reverts keep going on even against WP:QUO). The dispute concerns this question: whether to have the full lyrics of a national anthem in articles that are too short for them. The part about unofficial translations seems to have the consensus of not including them. SURJECTION ·talk·contr·log· 17:28, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for the response. If I understood correctly, the lyrics provided in a more compact form should be included in the main article, even if the lyrics are available on Wikisource (with a link provided by a template)? SURJECTION ·talk·contr·log· 09:33, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  Correct. It's the sort of material that merits inclusion here, and raises no concerns of turning Wiki into something it's not (eg. a lyrics database). The only problem is the formatting, which needs to be subdued. Bear in mind that with time the article will grow around it (eg. with an "analysis" section), so even if it was slightly longer we could've included it with little disturbance to layout. François Robere (talk) 22:45, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[WP:3O]] 

message: Please join discussion at Talk:Anthem of the Tajik Soviet Socialist Republic#Discuss inclusion of lyrics.--Nø (talk) 14:56, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inclusion of lyrics?