Talk:Devil Dog

message: the  template was added without any discussion as to why.  If someone really wants it there, let's hear your issues with the article as it stands.  -- stubblyhead | T/c 06:33, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: NPOV

message: If the Germans spread the rumour, that US Marines were calling them for DevilDogsn (Devil Dogs in plain English), every English-speaking person would surely classify DevilDogsn as a German manufactured lie.
In German: "1 Hund" = "1 dog", "2 Hunde" = "2 dogs", so "Hunden" with an extra 'N' must be "dogsn" with an extra 'N' (not dogs'n'devil). In German, terms are in one word, opposed to English, were two words can describe one term: aircraft carrier (Flugzeugträger), police officer (Polizeivollzugsbeamte), space shuttle (Raumfähre), weather satellite (Wettersatellit) etc. There is a jungle of rules, how to connect two words in German, but here an 'S' is used; Teufelshunde.
A German reader might figure out that Teufel Hunden is suppose to mean Teufelshunde, like an English reader will figure out that "DevilsDogsn" is suppose to mean "Devil Dogs". User:ERcheck removed "DevilDogsn" but the whole idea was to literally translate it into incorrect English, so that it catches the eye. DevilDogsn looks as incorrect to an English reader as Teufel Hunden looks to a German reader. Necessary Evil 17:31, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: sort of like devil'd eggs?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.158.48.16 (talk) 19:13, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Teufel Hunden 

message: The contradiction tag was originally placed in this article: 10:58, 16 April 2008 Necessary Evil (talk | contribs) (4,128 bytes) (Contradiction: bloodshot eyes and mouth foam not covered by their snout shaped gas masks - I thought that gas masks should cover their eyes and mouths.) but was never addressed.  There is no contradiction with this article from what I am able to read or the issue has already been taken care of as the section now reads:
::"As the Marines fought their way up the hill, the heat caused them to sweat profusely, foam at the mouth and turned their eyes bloodshot. Additionally, at some points the hill was very steep, which caused the Marines to have to scramble on all fours to make their way up. Consequently, from the Germans' vantage point, they witnessed a pack of tenacious, growling figures whose lower faces were obscured by gas masks (which at the time had a prolonged shape that somewhat resembled a snout) but left open their bloodshot eyes and mouth foam seeping from the sides, advancing up the hill, sometimes on all fours, and killing everything in their way.."
Tag is being removed.  If you still feel there is a contradiction, please feel free to discuss it here.  Thanks. Kjnelan (talk) 16:46, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradiction tag 

message: FWIW, there is a "hill" in Berlin call Teufelsberg. So, I don't it would be a stretch for some German/Austrian or someone in the German army whose first tung wasn't German to say Teufel-hund, Teufelshund, Teufelshunde, or even Teufelshunden ... OR for the interpreter to repeat it or write down wrong! For an American Marine interpreter, it would be an easy mistake to later say that the POW said Teufel Hunden! ... Or to Americanize it so that it made more sense ... Teufelshunde ... doesn't strike the English-speaking eyes as impressive but Teufel Hunden does! ... BTW, English as the -en as a plural for a few words like children, oxen, lenden ... So rewriting it to fit the English structure would make sense ... thus writing as two words and the plural with -en. This sort of corruption is common in etym of words. That's just my guess but I think it makes sense. Wes þu hal! (talk) 14:59, 3 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Alliterations are very powerful slogans and Devil Dogs is a good one. Teufel means 'Devil', okay. Hunden means.. I don't know but Hunde means 'dogs'. 'Devil Dogs' in German would be Teufelshunde in one word, not Teufel Hunde(n) in two words. But Germans would use Höllenhunde - something like 'Hounds of Hell'. So whoever conceived 'Devil Dogs' should have used Höllenhunde instead. Then the Marines' nickname would be Hell Hounds or something. --Regards, Necessary Evil (talk) 18:36, 3 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Teufelsberg 

message: Writing as a native German it beats me that here two usual german words have been mixed up. As was already stated here there's the german word "Höllenhund" (hell hound, dog from hell). But there's also another world with equal content, which is "Teufelskerl" (devlish guy, guy like a devil ("Kerl" being a rough german word for a strong young man )). Obviously both terms might have been used at the time by the Germans to classify the Marines as hard fighting opponents. Both terms were quite normally used at the time as a synonym for something like attaboy - whereas "Teufelshund" (which btw is proper german nominative) is and was a very unusual word. So my take is that both of the usual terms where heard by the Marines and later mixed up on the American side. Which off course would need to be documented by a proper linguist :-). JB --92.195.95.111 (talk) 16:18, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hoellenhunde & Teufelskerle 

message: In my twenty years of service int the USMC I have never heard of hospital corps man referred to as 'Devil Doc'. Where that may have come from I have no idea, perhaps the Navy.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.209.195.16 (talk) 07:37, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: From what I can tell, it's a real term, but it's pretty new, a neologism. Probably why you didn't hear it during your time. – Illegitimate Barrister (talk • contribs), 21:12, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Devil Docs" 

message: Rather than try to rewrite or question history, the more accurate thing to do would be to remind the reader that Americans who speak English could easily misunderstand the exact syntax used by the Germans. The fact is this phrase or one like it was reported over and over in American newspapers and commented on by high ranking Marine officers. One piece of evidence came from a letter found in the pocket of a German which told his family that they were facing an enemy which fought like dogs from hell. Of course, that was also a translation from German and the translator could have used the wrong word, phrase, or syntax. Using an error in grammar as a reason to change or deny history is a fool's errand and not helpful.
I hope this is helpful in an issue which I see has been commented on several times.
184.75.241.169 (talk) 17:45, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Well this is Wikipedia. Statements need sources, else it is original research. Wikipedia does not publish original thought: all material in Wikipedia must be attributable to a reliable, published source. Articles may not contain any new analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not clearly stated by the sources themselves. Often as an intelligent person you will try to connect the dots, find explanations, use one's common sense etc.- but it is forbidden. So your obiter dicta cannot be used here, sorry. --Regards, Necessary Evil (talk) 20:10, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  In the absence of supporting evidence, it is original research in its own right to treat this as anything BUT a good yarn. The fact that the story is told that way can be shown, the notion that it has any basis in historical fact cannot. Applying a stronger standard of evidence to one side than the other is epistemologically unsound, and highly problematic in situations like here, where the pertinent research may simply not be accessible to interested parties due to a language barrier --2A02:8106:258:3A00:3D2F:5592:B9D6:C37E (talk) 17:07, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

text: As others have pointed out, "dogs from hell" i.e. hellhounds, or in German, Höllenhunde, is an existing term in German and regularly used. "Teufelshund", on the other hand, is not. It also does not occur in "the" German dictionary, the "Duden". The issue is thus not one of grammar, it's one of mixing up terms completely. --2A02:8106:258:3A00:3D2F:5592:B9D6:C37E (talk) 16:57, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

text: This is not a case of "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" - if the term was used in German, there would be some kind of evidence for its use. Calling it "unproven" implies a certain likelihood of it being accurate that in reality isn't given. It should be clearly framed as an origin legend. We might otherwise just add that Jesus Christ was the son of God because it says so in the Bible. --2A02:8106:258:3A00:3D2F:5592:B9D6:C37E (talk) 16:57, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grammar Problem 

message: An editor contributed with quotes from his Marine Corp handbook. IMHO the handbook would be a reference to how the Marines' apprehend the Devil Dog term. --Regards, Necessary Evil (talk) 00:34, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:   Marine Corp handbook 

message: Between the weird grammatical and spelling errors (which vary from one source to the next, even between different uses by the Marine Corps), the story originally being reported by Floyd Phillips Gibbons, who was a great character but not afraid to embellish the truth a little and the lack of any proven source showing the Germans actually used the term themselves it's fairly likely that the origin of the term Devil Dog is a myth.  This article gives a good account of how the term seems more likely to have originated in American propaganda than among German soldiers.
When you try to track down the origin of the term you find lots of American sources claiming the Germans said this but you'll struggle to find a German source in which the term is actually used.  In Mencken's 'The American Language' you'll find a brief reference to it in which he notes that the Germans didn't go in for these sort of nicknames at all - they referred to their enemies largely by their nationalities and didn't even stoop to calling Americans Yankees.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:8003:111E:2300:98D:CF76:86AE:EF9D (talk) 12:09, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  This story is almost certainly a myth