Talk:Austria within Nazi Germany

message: I forgot to log in, but the translation was definitely mine... sorry--VeronikaMM (talk) 13:57, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  oops 

message: I’ve added material from the German Wikipedia article, Juliputsch.  The German text refers to that article.Barbara Shack (talk) 13:13, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: as long as we are translating the article we should stick to the original. Once we are done I think it makes sense adding stuff from other articles, but it makes it very difficult to proofread for those who agree to do the job.--VeronikaMM (talk) 07:14, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Further additions 

message: I know this might not be the perfect place to add this, but whoever wants to join in translating this article, I think it only makes sense if one person is working on one section at a time, otherwise it gets really confusing. It is a very long article and there is plenty to be translated, so please always start out with a new (sub-)section once you are done with one, not with one, that someone has already started with. I think it also gives a much better flow in reading a section at a time. I know things are going to edited again and again, but several people working on the same part usually doesn't work out too well... Thanks--VeronikaMM (talk) 22:22, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation 

message: This is the title of a series of over 200 photographs produced in 1938, distributed in Austria as a premium with packs of cigarettes shortly after the Anschluss. A commemorative album with companion texts was available for purchase at tobacconists for the token sum of one Reichmark. Subjects of the photos and their brief captions: Nazi party history and major events, its conflicts with the Left in the early decades of the 20th C., and popular support for Adolf Hitler as a leader. My question:
* Is there an authorized (or accepted, canonical) title for this series in English? (My difficulty is with the word Weg) 
Thank you -- Deborahjay (talk) 13:28, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, this page translates it "Adolf Hitler and His Path to a Greater Germany," and this one translates it "Adolf Hitler and His Way to Greater Germany". Both seem acceptable translations, though the "path" one sounds a good deal more idiomatic in English to me. I doubt that there's a canonical English translation of this. Deor (talk) 13:48, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that "path" is the better translation.  The word way in English has a broader range of meanings than Weg in German, so using "way" creates a phrase that sounds funny and is ambiguous.  Marco polo (talk) 14:31, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

text: Well, we do have an article Großdeutschland, and the third paragraph under "History" seems particularly relevant in this context. For myself, I think "to a Greater Germany" sounds better in English, just as we might speak of "the path to a European Union," but I'm not sure I can articulate the reason. Deor (talk) 21:05, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Very appropriate link – I hadn't thought to look for such a page! The title of the animated map there, _Germany's way to "Greater Germany"_[sic], is suggestive... but indicates no German-language original and may not have been translated accurately. All told, I'm now thinking of a new option (afterthought, above); what do you think? -- Deborahjay (talk) 21:47, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd go with either "a" or "the" (even though there's no article in the German version) and no quotation marks—I can't see any reason for their use here. Deor (talk) 22:02, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you view the capitalized adjective in Greater Germany sufficient to indicate that this is a term for a concept (i.e. Großdeutschland in the original)? That aspect was the reason I was inclined to enclose those words in quotation marks. --Deborahjay (talk) 22:20, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you going to capitalize the translation of the series title headline-style (i.e., like an English title)? If so, I suppose there is some potential ambiguity; but I think the likelihood of misinterpretation is small. In any event, such use of quotation marks would be unusual and might perplex readers more than the version without them. Deor (talk) 23:02, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It also occurs to me that "the Greater Germany" is somewhat less ambiguous than "a Greater Germany," so you might prefer that. Deor (talk) 23:08, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I feel rather strongly that there should be no article in the translation (and also no quotation marks).  I think that it should be Adolf Hitler and His Path to Greater Germany.  Using "a Greater Germany" or "the Greater Germany" frames "Greater Germany" as an ideal rather than as a geographic entity.  In fact, Großdeutschland was a geographic entity, a union of Austria and Germany (with Bohemia and other "culturally German" bits thrown in in the Nazi version).  Using another historical example, let's say we are talking about the unification of the lands of the South Slavs after World War I.  We would refer to a "path to Yugoslavia" rather than a "path to a Yugoslavia" or, odder still, a "path to the Yugoslavia".  Yugoslavia is less tricky because it really cannot be construed as an ideal, whereas "path to a greater Germany" can easily be read to mean simply a path to an improved Germany.  So I think that the article introduces unnecessary ambiguity.  Marco polo (talk) 13:30, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Adolf Hitler und sein Weg zu Großdeutschland" 

message: this reddit entry cites quite a number references and seems to paint a much more differentiated picture than this article, besides stating the "austrian X% of" numbers are wrong. --ThurnerRupert (talk) 02:50, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  references and numbers 

message: I don't have the reference, but I'm concerned about the sentence "Overall 200,000 people died at the camp, roughly half of whom were killed." What are we counting as "killed"? If someone is held captive and dies from malnutrition or is forced to labor in extreme conditions and dies as a result, that person has no less been "killed" than if they were put in a gas chamber. --Nat Gertler (talk) 13:34, 14 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, they were all killed. WP:BLUE. - 05:49, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  number killed 

message: High time time to bring this article closer to the GA status German-language version https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96sterreich_in_der_Zeit_des_Nationalsozialismus
The title there is Österreich in der Zeit des Nationalsozialismus, which has a different meaning and is more accurate than Austria under National Socialism. In English, Austria in the time of National Socialism is clunky and Nazi Austria would be my preference. Thoughts? -Applefall (talk) 05:51, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: You might already know this, but back in 2018 this article was called "Austria in the time of National Socialism". And yeah, I changed it because it sounded like a unnatural literal translation. "Nazi Austria" could run into the problem where it implies Austria was independent at this time. I don't think that's such a big deal though, since the first line of the article would clear up that impression. It's all fine by me. Brightgalrs (/braɪtˈɡæl.ərˌɛs/)[ᴛ] 00:14, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  DE GA & title 

message: Nazism is an ideology, not a country.
I think the title should be changed to, "Austria under Nazi Germany". That makes it less ambigous. Nowy Prywaciarz (talk) 21:20, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes but the sense of the word "under" in English very much echoes the bogus 'first victim of the Nazis' narrative that our reliable sources show modern Austrian society has come a long way in quitting. As a solution I suggest replacing that word with the more neutral "within" and will WP:BOLD try the change now. -Chumchum7 (talk) 05:32, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Change of title