Talk:Iṣṭa-devatā (Hinduism)

message: LordsuryaofShropshire, I think the link to idolaty should be present because the subject is related whether we like it or not. And believe me, I don't like the ignorance and prejudice of Muslims and Christians about Hinduism. Andries 20:18, 11 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Icon means image. Idolatry is worship of a specific image. Irrelevant here, but why struggle with Andries? Wetman 20:21, 11 Apr 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Idols and Icons

message: Raj removed the sentence that I had inserted that a living guru could be an Ishta-Deva but Sathya Sai Baba was my Istha deva and still is for many of his followers. Andries 18:09, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: This is good information, somewhere, but probably not on this article. It is also opinionated.  23:24, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

text: Raj, It is a notable fact so it so it should be mentioned here possibly with a short remark that this is not mainstream Hinduism or even condemned by mainstream Hinduism. Andries 11:57, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)

text: Raj, only your reaction to my neutral statement was opinionated. Andries 17:24, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)

text: I would support a somewhat stronger wording, and am uncertain Sathya Sai Baba merits specific mention (altho a link to cult might be appropriate). Some guy whose primary "miracle" involves producing costume jewlery, and "testing" his followers faith by "allowing" them to see his clumsily failed attempts to palm it properly (that is when he's not too busy molesting their children...) doesn't strike me as a particularly worthy mention here. Theres a whole list of folks who have claimed to be God thruout history, and this guys temporary popularity is of precious little import in the larger scheme of things. Encyclopedia articles are ment to be timeless, not excessively focused on the trends of the day.  21:40, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)

text: I agree Sathya Sai Baba has not been proven guilty by law, but I am not editing Sathya Sai Baba, merely this talk page, and based on the evidence I have seen I personally assume his guilt. That is not to say that he doesn't do good deeds (building hospitals, etc...) as well, but he is an extraordinarilly poor candidate for suggestions of Godlike morality. In any case, I think this article should mention cults, but not name names. I'll try to do just that.  13:56, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)

text: I already wrote something up prior to your advice. The wording may not be exactly the same, but I used some quotes you provided, and think the spirit is similar to what you had in mind. Please make any changes you feel are needed, of course.  15:10, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Cults and "gurus"

message: In a few cults, and new religious movements, especially some Contemporary Hindu movements, a living guru may be the Ishta-Deva of his followers, for example in the case of Sathya Sai Baba. He does not define what Hinduism is.
Such worship is improper and not in accordance with Hinduism as the guru is replacing himself for God. 
However, if followers worship the guru like God, it is only proper if they are using him as a conduit to attain God or in a similar manner as Christians pray to a saint to intercede for them to help attain's God's grace. 
Swami Sivananda has said that a guru can be likened to God if he himself has attained realization and is a link between the individual and the Absolute. Such a case is limited in contemporary times as very few have actually attained union with God, inspire devotion in others, and whose presence purifies all. Such examples of genuine God-realized gurus include Raghavendra Swami and Ramakrishna.
Even those God-realized gurus never claimed that they were God but are using the Lord's power to show His greatness. As early in the seventeenth century, the great saint, Raghavendra Swami, in his last speech before departing from the mortal world, warned about the dangers of fraudulent gurus by saying, "The search for knowledge is never easy. As the Upanishads say it is like walking on the razor's edge. But for those who have strong faith and put in sustained effort and have the blessings of Shi Hari and guru this is not difficult. 
Always keep away from people who merely perform miracles without following the shastras and yet call themselves God or guru. I have performed miracles, and so have great persons like Shrimadacharya. These are based on yoga siddhi and the shastras. There is no fraud or trickery at all. These miracles were performed only to show the greatness of God and the wonderful powers that one can attain with His grace. Right knowledge (jnana) is greater than any miracle.  Without this no real miracle can take place. Any miracle performed without this right knowledge is only witchcraft. No good will come to those who perform such miracles and also those who believe in them."
:This is good information, somewhere, but probably not on this article. It is also opinionated.  23:24, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Raj, It is a notable fact so it so it should be mentioned here possibly with a short remark that this is not mainstream Hinduism or even condemned by mainstream Hinduism. Andries 11:57, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)

text: Raj, only your reaction to my neutral statement was opinionated. Andries 17:24, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)

text: I would support a somewhat stronger wording, and am uncertain Sathya Sai Baba merits specific mention (altho a link to cult might be appropriate). Some guy whose primary "miracle" involves producing costume jewlery, and "testing" his followers faith by "allowing" them to see his clumsily failed attempts to palm it properly (that is when he's not too busy molesting their children...) doesn't strike me as a particularly worthy mention here. Theres a whole list of folks who have claimed to be God thruout history, and this guys temporary popularity is of precious little import in the larger scheme of things. Encyclopedia articles are ment to be timeless, not excessively focused on the trends of the day.  21:40, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)

text: I agree Sathya Sai Baba has not been proven guilty by law, but I am not editing Sathya Sai Baba, merely this talk page, and based on the evidence I have seen I personally assume his guilt. That is not to say that he doesn't do good deeds (building hospitals, etc...) as well, but he is an extraordinarilly poor candidate for suggestions of Godlike morality. In any case, I think this article should mention cults, but not name names. I'll try to do just that.  13:56, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)

text: I already wrote something up prior to your advice. The wording may not be exactly the same, but I used some quotes you provided, and think the spirit is similar to what you had in mind. Please make any changes you feel are needed, of course.  15:10, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Living guru as Ishta-Deva

message: Hello Raj, I reverted your edits because the concept of an Ishta-deva is also important within other Hindu traditions, not just within Advaita schools. For example, within Vaishnavism it is true that Vishnu is witheld as the Supreme Person, however, one Vaishnava may worship Narayana as their Ishta-deva, another will worship Rama, and another might have Narasimha, and yet another might have Krishna as their chosen deities. There are innumerable different Vishnu forms also, with each Vishnu being known by a different name - the practice is that devotees will naturally offer worship to the form of Vishnu which they feel the most attachment for - this being their Ishta-deva. Gouranga(UK) 20:59, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, the concept of an ishta-devata can exist in all sects. As another example, most Shakti worshippers don't directly worship Her as Shakti but through a Ishta Devi, such as Lakshmi, Parvati, Durga or Kali. GizzaChat © 08:38, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Ishta-deva in Vaishnavism

message: There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Daśāvatāra which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RM bot 16:46, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Move discussion in progress

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: :Iṣṭa-devatā (Hinduism) →  – As WP:ONEOTHER, the Sanskrit term Ishtadevata (IAST: Iṣṭa-devatā) is primarily used in Hinduism vis-a-vis Buddhism where Yidam (from Tibetan) is the popular term (ishtadevata is a ceremonial Sanskrit term).
The following generic religion encyclopedias define the term in the Hindu context
* An_Introductory_Dictionary_of_Theology p. 651 
* Encyclopedia of Love in World Religions:Page 301 - Yudit Kornberg Greenberg · 2007
* Encyclopedia of Spirits and Ghosts in World Mythology - Page 44 (under Devata entry) Theresa Bane · 2016
* The Encyclopedia of Yoga and Tantra - Page 352 Georg Feuerstein · 2022
Encyclopedia of Hinduism - Page 203 - Constance Jones, James D. Ryan · 2006: "Ishta devata (desired divinity) is an important
concept in theistic Hinduism." - illustrates its importance in Hinduism Redtigerxyz  Talk  14:23, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Note: WikiProject Religion, Hinduism-related topics notice board, Noticeboard for India-related topics, WikiProject Hinduism/Philosophy, and WikiProject Mythology have been notified of this discussion. Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 00:04, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 25 May 2024