Talk:Amir Abbas Fakhravar

message: Those weblogs are not Reliable sources. Continue these kind of discussions in your blogs. Check every single hyper link on  template above. ‍Hessam 22:51, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: How come there is no biography of this person? There is no information here. It goes from saying he is an activist (what is his history as an activist?) and then suddenly he is in the US meeting with important officials. We should know more about this man and why he is important enough to meet with high-level American officials. Khodavand 00:09, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My response to this can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Amir_Abbas_Fakhravar.  A few problems I see with this argument.  First, there's no question there's an ideological slant and questionable reliability on the Front Page Mag article. Second, the Mother Jones article is reliable.  It's not a "blog", it's an article written by Laura Rozen, an expert and frequent commentator and journalist on Middle East affairs (http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/authors/laura-rozen).  The article is also based on a variety of eye-witnesses testimonies.  Fourth, to the extent we intend to rely upon Front Page Mag for any assertions, then there's not much of an argument to exclude the contrary position taken in the Mother Jones article. Lastly, all of the accusations listed above are unfounded and in fact sourced to one blog which, coincidentally enough, seems to idolize the subject. Kabirat (talk) 13:03, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The position taken by Kabriat seems to make a lot of sense. Front Page Magazine is a questionable authority at best and shouldn't be relied upon without some other corroboration. I also question the motivations of Siavash777, which I have a suspicion is the subject himself. 91.82.187.42 (talk) 23:04, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

text: How is Front Page Magazine "questionable" but Mother Jones exempt from scrutiny? It is a typical pseudo-argument that the right-leaning forum is regarded as biased and inaccurate while the left-leaning forum is based on facts and statistics. Mother Jones is overwhelmingly biased, and the contributors have an agenda. The information on Mr. Fakhravar at Mother Jones is written by individuals with a personal vendetta against him, and they create "data" to support their personal opinions. Foster.Allison (talk) 07:54, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

text: My response to this can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Amir_Abbas_Fakhravar. If we can source those facts to actual and reliable information I have no problem with this.  Notably, the PBS link doesn't talk about Fakhavar and the blog posting is completely unreliable. Kabirat (talk) 13:03, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  User Kabirat, I can't believe you couldn't see on PBS link Amir Abbas Fakhravar was mentioned six times as a "'Students Leader and a Hero! Please check again BPS link here and STOP your non-sence accusations against Fakhravar. "Fakhravar's role in Iranian Student Movement - PBS documentary Forbidden Iran ": http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/iran/thestory.html/") Siavash777 (talk) 18:18, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  User Kabirat, You want to ignore PBS, BBC, CNN, Fox News, CBN, Washington Post, Washington Times, Daily Telegraph, Jerusalem Post, New York sun, New York Daily News, Front page magazine, VOA, Radio Farda and many other reliable news channels who are calling Amir Abbas Fakhravar a "Hero" and "One of Iranian Student Leaders" and just mention one un-reliable blog called "Mother Jons" who has ideological problem with him as a source to discredit him. This is not right. Siavash777 (talk) 18:21, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  Responses can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Amir_Abbas_Fakhravar. One thing to note, please withhold all name-calling.  And if you do intend to name-call, please use proper spelling. Kabirat (talk) 21:19, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

text:  Bina Darabzand, a founding member of the Democratic Party of Iran (Hezb-e Demokrat-e Iran), was arrested on 17 August 2004 outside the UN offices in Tehran while demonstrating peacefully calling for better treatment of political prisoners and was sentenced to three-and-a-half years' imprisonment, five years' denial of civil rights and 50 lashes. That information can be found here: http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/topic,464db4f52,464db52c2,43fb36564,0,AMNESTY,,.html. Najmeh Bozorgmehr was and continues to be the Financial Times' Iran correspondent in Tehran (http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/db368004-0ca1-11e2-a73c-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2L3jInR9C). Their comments are all relevant since they provide additional context concerning the subject's background.  As to comments by Ahmad Batebi, first there is no source to the allegation that he was Iran's intelligence service informant.  In fact that comment appears to be defamatory.  Second, Batebi was the subject's cellmate in Iran.  His opinions and observations concerning the subject in relation to their time in prison are extremely relevant. Kabirat (talk) 11:09, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Biography

message: It is very interesting to see how many times this pages have been vandalized by anonymous users. All of them are trying to delete the criticism by Nasser Zarafshan and promote Fakhravar! Sina Kardar 15:57, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: vandalisms

message: What exactly makes him an Iranian-American? He left the country too recently to be called an American ... and his english is not very good either!Shervink 16:42, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Iranian-American?

message: I have removed the following from the article to here:
Nasser Zarafshan after being released from the Evin prison, has criticized Amir Abbas Fakhravar, saying "He has been working for the police [of the Islamic Republic]" and that "In prison, everybody knows that."  	 
''
I think it may be better to move it back when there is a "criticisms" section, at the moment it seems a bit random. --Rayis 16:53, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Nasser Zarafshan]] 

message: somebody who meets with bush,cheney and perle and let them use himself, cannot be a democracy activist. the current iranian regime is undoubtly a dictatorship and having been imprisoned in evin must be a terrible experience. but you cant cure pest with malaria ore vice versa. the neocons dont care for the iranian people, they dont want to improve or assert anything there except their strategical interest. fakhravar is as much an iranian democracy activist as the nicaraguan "contra"-leaders were for nicaragua. i have deleted the category. --Severino 18:02, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry but that's your point of view. This is a political activist who advocates democracy. Neocons may not be your or my ideal political party but anyone who shakes hands with them does not automatically become anti-democratic. --Rayis 18:10, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  democracy activist? 

message: Can 
be replaced with 
:: maelgwn - talk 15:00, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That change makes no visible difference on the page; I'm not sure that it's necessary right now.  Once the page is unprotected of course you can change it if desired and there is consensus. — Carl (CBM · talk) 17:07, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Infobox Biography is soon to be depreciated and so it is being cleaned out. :: maelgwn - talk 00:23, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Done. Cheers. --MZMcBride 03:57, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  infobox update 

message: Just a note to avoid primary sources when citing topics like political views, it lends to much to POV interpretation. If you can replace them with reliable third-party sources that will greatly increase the chances of the changes sticking. Similarly try to find the most reliable sources you can (mainstream newspapers are generally more desirable than political magazines, for example). Whilst having some sources is better than having none, anything that doesn't meet WP:RS will still get removed. -Rushyo Talk 20:42, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: To drive this point home: Any poorly sourced material on a BLP should be removed. This is not normal policy, but it's better to have an article that has far less content than one which breaches WP:BLP. Please do not re-add content if somebody has challenged it but bring the discussion to the talk page. Wikipedia does not have a deadline and consensus wins the edit war. -Rushyo Talk 21:03, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: A note on sourcing

message: The section needs a ton of work.  Most of the suggestions are unsupported by any sources.  Further, much of it didn't even relate to the topic at hand.  This may be because Fakhavar wasn't in Iran during the 2009 movement therefore his actual contributions are sparse.  If anyone has any reliable and credible data on his contributions, please update accordingly.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kabirat (talk • contribs) 06:20, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The first link you cite doesn't appear to work. The second link you provide makes no comment supporting your position.  Do you have other primary sources that support your proposition? Kabirat (talk) 12:53, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  User Kabirat, these links are working and coming from the United States Congressional Research Service, the most trustful report from united States government. Those are pdf documments and you need to just copy and paste them and see what is inside them. These documents shows how credible, effective and influential are Mr. Fakhravar and his organization inside Iranian Green Movement! User Kabirat you should STOP these accusation ASAP? You are acting sick. Is it possible please one of Wikipedia editors send a warning to User Kabirat and ask him to stop his non-sence accusations against Amir Abbas Fakhravar. Siavash777 (talk) 03:43, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  Again, the first link doesn't work.  The second link does not refer to Fakhavar as a leader of the Green Movement.  It refers to him in connection with the 1999 student movements, not the 2009 Green Movement (which makes sense since Fakhavar was in the US during the Green Movement).  Do you have any other source? Kabirat (talk) 21:24, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  At Page 5 of this Congressional Research Service report you will see: Opposition/”Green Movement” (Rah-e-Sabz): All of the blocs and personalities below can be considered, to varying degrees, as part of the Green Movement. However, overall leadership of the movement and decision-making on protest activities is unclear, with several components competing for preeminence. Some Green supporters have left for Europe, Asia, or the United States. And then Amir Abbas Fakhravar's name and his Organization CIS listed as second block there. I hope You will get it finally. Siavash777 (talk) 17:12, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  Please do not attempt to manipulate facts by misquoting or mischaracterizing portions of the document. In full the passage says the following: "Groups composed of well-educated, Westernized urban youth are the backbone of the Green Movement. They are attempting, with mixed success,to gain support of older generation, labor, clerics, village-dwellers, and othersegments. Many in the Office of Consolidation of Unity, the student group thatled the 1999 riots but which has since become controlled by regime loyalists,believes that major reform of the current regime might be acceptable. An offshoot of the Office - the Confederation of Iranian Students (CIS) - believes in regime replacement and consists of pro-American, pro-free market activists. Overall CIS leader, Arzhang Davoodi, convicted in August 2012 of “war against God” which carries life sentence. CIS’ Washington, D.C. presence is led by Amir Abbas Fakhravar, who was jailed for five years for participating in July 1999 student riots."  There is nothing in that statement that says Fakhavar was a leader of the Green Movement.  Its very clear in what it means and you are completely using it out of context.  So I will ask again, do you have any other sources?? Kabirat (talk) 22:58, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: 2009 Green Movement

message: We can't use Wikileaks cables as a source in the article since it is primary source and is not reliable. I note that this article has multiple issues. I will try to fix them soon.Farhikht (talk) 09:24, 23 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Also Wikileaks documents could harm people.Farhikht (talk) 09:34, 23 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikileaks 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion 

message: Some of the sources is not impartial, some paragraphs has referenced to Amir Fakhravar’s political rivals such as : Zarafshan, Nasrin Mohammadi, Akbar Mohammadi , Sazegara , Bozorgmehr, Batebi and ..., to discredit internationally reliable sources such as Amnesty international, Frontpage Mag, The New York Sun, National review and ... . 
References 29 - 31 are not impartial Shahabimilad1387 (talk) 07:11, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lack of impartiality 

message: Link 44 of the page is not valid. It is a personal website and the text is written by Fakhravar's rival. So I'll delete the claim in Imprisonment part. PoONeH7013 (talk) 15:26, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Invalid source 

message: Link 45 is dead. And I couldn't find any source proving the paragraph. So I'll delete it PoONeH7013 (talk) 15:36, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 

message: Links 46 and 48 are not valid. Link 47 refers to Ahmad Batebi's personal website. He is Fakhravar's rival in politics.
Nasser Zarafshan is also Fakhravar's rival so his claims can't be refered to. PoONeH7013 (talk) 15:40, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: Invalid source PoONeH7013 (talk) 15:46, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Invalid source 

message: References have not written in the same style. I’m Reformatting them to have same style. Shahabimilad1387 (talk) 07:45, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference style 

message: In addition to COI issues, there is an overall NPOV problem as a result of this. The article comes across as promotional and even exaggerating events that were not widely reported in Iranian media. One of the problematic contributors claims sources like Frontpage Mag are "internationally reliable," whatever that means, but such ridiculously POV and unreliable sources are unacceptable. Laval (talk) 15:44, 19 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, the article is full of Wikipuffery, while Fakhravar is generally not taken seriously by the Iranian opposition, nor the regime. Pahlevun (talk) 10:47, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I found these information about him, on a book co-authored by Robert Scheer and Reese Erlich, published by Routledge in 2016:
—Pahlevun (talk) 12:09, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: The text below comes from a peer-reviewed article published by the Third World Quarterly in 2007, from researcher affiliated with the University of Oxford:
—Pahlevun (talk) 12:37, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: There are more sources that present another viewpoint:
* Matthew Yglesias of The Atlantic writes that "Fakhravar seems to be a bit of a grifter, a crook, and a flim-flam man which, of course, makes him a perfect match for his newfound buddies. In short, he's the new Chalabi. Like Chalabi, there's even some sign that he's actually working with the Iranian security services".
* Belén Fernández quoted historian Eskandar Sadeghi-Boroujerdi of Oxford University in Middle East Eye, that Fakhravar has “shown himself to be a charlatan and snake oil salesman willing to say whatever and align himself with whoever is in power to further his abject career”, placing him “amongst the most reprehensible of the dregs of a politically and morally bankrupt bunch who have hitched their wagon to the hope that the Trump administration will lead the US to a war against Iran”.
* Laura Rozen wrote in Mother Jones that he was "virtual unknown both inside and outside Iran when he arrived in the United States" who was notorious for being "an opportunist being pushed to the fore by Iran hawks, a reputed jailhouse snitch who was locked up for nonpolitical offenses but reinvented himself as a student activist and political prisoner once behind bars". She also quotes Financial Times' Tehran correspondent that "Student circles and journalistic circles don’t recognize him as a student leader".
* Political blog Tikun Olam posted an entry about role of Israeli Intelligence in his visit t Israel. 
* Connie Bruck of The New Yorker has wrote on his relationship with pro-Israel lobby in the united states: "Pooya Dayanim, a Jewish-Iranian democracy activist based in Los Angeles, chatted with Adelson. Recalling their conversation, Dayanim observed that Adelson was dismissive of Reza Pahlevi, the son of the former Shah, who had participated in the Prague conference, because, Adelson said, “he doesn’t want to attack Iran.” According to Dayanim, Adelson referred to another Iranian dissident at the conference, Amir Abbas Fakhravar, whom he said he would like to support, saying, “I like Fakhravar because he says that, if we attack, the Iranian people will be ecstatic.” Dayanim said that when he disputed that assumption Adelson responded, “I really don’t care what happens to Iran. I am for Israel.”"
These views are totally absent from the article. Pahlevun (talk) 14:50, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV 

message: The article mentions that he is a recipient of "Annie Taylor Award", and the source is a video on youtube, uploaded by an unverified account presumably belonging to David Horowitz Freedom Center. Youtube videos are per se not good sources for Wikipedia, plus there is no indication that the award is important. Pahlevun (talk) 11:42, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Annie Taylor Award  

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thread_title:  Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for speedy deletion 

message: At this moment, two press releases from Amnesty International are cited in the article: The first is 30 March 2003, Index number: MDE 13/009/2003 and another dated 13 February 2004, Index number: MDE 13/009/2004. The first has actually not much information, but the second is being quoted word by word in the article. There is an update dated 25 March 2004, Index number: MDE 13/021/2004 which corrects a mistake in previous release, and uses a different tone about “white torture”, no more asserting it as if the allegations were a fact. Instead, the updated statement uses the word reportedly almost at every sentence, suggesting that the organization has received reports on that matter but was not able to state them as facts. This most recent statement should be reflected in the article, as it is an update on previous release. Pahlevun (talk) 19:03, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I just realized that Alan Weisman has mentioned the same point on The Los Angeles Times: "Although Amnesty International lists Fakhravar among those tortured by the Tehran regime, it uses the word “reportedly” to describe his ordeal." Pahlevun (talk) 21:12, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Press release of Amnesty International 

message: Controversy is one of the important part of Mr. Fakhravar's page which has been removed with out any reason. This part has some strong and valid source that shows a different angle of Mr. Fakhravar life. In his Farsi page, this part is more complete and accurate. Also there is several souces for Controversy in farsi. Based on Wikipedia rule, controversy is unremovable from his page and I ask for help from the administrators to protect the mentioned section.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hajiwashington (talk • contribs) 00:57, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I am well aware of what you say, but on the contrary, WP:BLP prohibits using questionable sources such as 'Iran Social Forum' or personal blog of Ahmad Batebi (self-published sources). They should not be used at all. For using material mentioned by reliable sources like Der Spiegel, try to use them wherever they are applicable, instead of creating a new section for 'Controversy' (because it will be potentially prone to POV). For example, the quote by Vali Nasr can be used in this section: #Activities. Pahlevun (talk) 17:44, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Controversy