Talk:Prolotherapy

message: I question the opening statement that prolotherapy is "alternative medicine" - while many insurance companies require pre-approval, I do not see many treating it as an alternative medicine procedure. 
Furthermore, this statement: "Major medical insurance policies view prolotherapy as an investigational or experimental therapy with an inconclusive evidence base. Consequently, they currently do not provide coverage for prolotherapy procedures." is considerably incorrect correct, albeit properly sourced.
Some insurance companies feel that way. Others do not.
Is there a serious objection to removing the alternative medicine and other claims? Even NHS in the UK recognizes prolotherapy: http://www.roh.nhs.uk/patient-information/injections/135-prolotherapy/file 73.48.150.124 (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 05:06, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: The ref is a good review and states "Prolotherapy is an injection-based complementary and alternative medical therapy for chronic musculoskeletal pain." So restored. Government programs comment on alt med treatments. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 11:22, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I cannot find the text you are quoting in the referenced PDF, I am in favor of reverting the 'alternative medicine' label. --Faissaloo (talk) 19:15, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Really Alternative?

message: ESPN's show, Outside the Lines recently did a piece on prolotherapy, showing how this one "doctor" from New Zealand ruined the careers of several athletes, including an Olympian, practicing prolotherapy.  Should this article have an NPOV tag?66.44.54.198 18:06, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just for the record:  I googled for the show you mention above, and it sounds like you might be remembering a different show.  I found a cache of an "Outside The Lines" show from 1 Feb 2006.  It was about one Dr. Ongley who was practicing in Mexico, not in New Zealand, and he wasn't accused of ruining anyone's career.  He was portayed as controversial because  his license had been revoked (for reasons that weren't clear) and he was practicing in Mexico, and the US ski anti-doping committee had concerns about what he might be inbjecting.  The prodedure he was said to be using sounded like garden-variety prolotherapy, however, and wasn't different from procedures used by docs who use prolo in the US.  thx, -Jim Butler 04:39, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: NPOV?

message: Original article grossly biased. I've offered my edits in cooperative spirit, removing criticism into a criticism section, and removing the 4 or 5 instances of 'allegedly', 'practictioners claim', and reference in the intro to the fact that Medicare and Aetna won't cover the treatment - an irrelevant and impertinent fact obviously intended to cast doubt. Yes, I'm a prolotherapy success story - but I think my edits are totally neutral.
:Dear Anonymous editor, you are in breach of wikipedia policy here. The policy states that sources must be provided for claims made. I have removed some unsourced claims. If you wish to put them back in you will need to provide evidence. For the flow of the article, other claims which explain what the belief is, have been qualified with appropriate language. Mccready 01:36, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quite un-neutral 

message: Hi Kevin -- again, I would ask you to please stop making contentious and unverified edits to lead sections.  "Pseudoscientific" involves value judgment and is a loaded term.  Need to say who says it, not repeat as fact.  Prolo is by definition minimally invasive since it involves hyperdermic injection and not cutting.  Also changed "alleged" to better NPOV wording.  thx, Jim Butler 03:58, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Jim, you'll just have to get used to the idea that pseudoscience is a legitimate word to use in an encyclopedia whether or not you think it's a loaded term. Check the definition of pseudoscience. Prolotherapy fits. If you can show some objective basis in science for it then we can talk about an alteration. Mccready 11:07, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

text: "minimally invasive" is a weasel word term used by altmeders in an attmept to make their altmed sound attractive. I call injecting foreign substances into joint capsules very invasive. And yes, any med that doesn't stack up to EBM deserves to be labelled pseudoscience. Please study the defn of psuedoscience. Whether it's testable isn't the point. Pseudoscientists have a religious fervour that no amount of evidence or no amount of not finding evidence will shake - it's quite instructive for example to have a look at the Australian Skeptics DVD on water dousers. The dousers argue till they are blue in the face that somehow or other it didn't work today because ..... So it's revert again I'm afraid. Mccready 07:36, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I use the WP defn. Show me a medical practice not EBM and not psuedoscience. Mccready 08:09, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Well-said.  List of pseudosciences and pseudoscientific concepts (see here for contemporenous version), imo, handles the issue of attribution well.  Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view/FAQ#Pseudoscience is useful too for the present state of consensus a/o ArbCom views on this issue.  regards, Jim Butler(talk) 06:49, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ideally, we would indeed provide a reference.  In some cases this burden might be too high, for example very new or very obscure cranky claims.  We faced this problem in some recent articles related to "energy from the vacuum" schemes; the articles concerned press statements which were only weeks old, so mainstream scientists had not yet reacted with press statements of their own.  In such cases, WP must rely on the opinions of its pools of experts in the relevant scientific fields. ----CH 23:53, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm skeptical of prolotheraphy. I don't think it should be used outside of a clinical trial. However, the Cochrane review said that there was evidence that it worked in combination with other treatments. There's no conclusive evidence for it or against it, so further study is justified. Its practitioners publish randomized controlled trials in peer-reviewed journals, which is the definition I use for science. So it's not pseudoscience.  Nbauman 15:23, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead section 

message: The article currently makes no mention of the use of prolotherapy to strengthen sinews for the purposes of improving athletic performance. 83.70.244.210 19:29, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If anyone has suggestions for scientific papers that meet WP:MEDRS criteria for the use of prolotherapy to improve athletic performance, feel free to add them to the article or suggest them here on the talk page. TylerDurden8823 (talk) 21:50, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Non-therapeutic uses

message: having known many practitioners and undergone the therapy myself, I have come to three conclusions: 1. the treatment works 2. effectiveness depends on the solutions used and skill of the practitioner 3. the solutions used are harmless and the body gets rid of them in a few days, thus no harm.GreatDay 19:46, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is not really an appropriate place to discuss an anecdote or your personal experience (even if it's an interesting story). TylerDurden8823 (talk) 21:51, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: personal experience

message: The page is tagged suggesting a merge with sclerotherapy. Does anyone else see this as warranted? I can't see a reason for it. They seem to be entirely different therapies and both have a full page of information written about them. DiamonDie 21:21, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Unless there is a convincing argument to the contrary, go ahead and remove it. We discussed this on sclerotherapy and removed the merge tag there. The reason against the merge is that there is strong evidence for the safety and efficacy of sclerotherapy, while there is no evidence for prolotherapy beyond what I cited in the Cochrane Collaboration. Nbauman 21:38, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge? 

message: This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 16:30, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject class rating