Talk:Kaurna

message: "The Jultiwira (stringy bark forests)" should "Jultiwira" be capitilised, and for that matter italicised?SauliH 13:41, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd say not. Donama 06:06, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Jultiwira

message: Should the category simply be History of South Australia, since Adelaide was just a little corner of Kaurna territory? Donama 06:06, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: History of Adelaide or History of South Australia?

message: I've deleted a lot of duplicated and WP:COATRACK Kaurna references from a variety of Adelaide place articles (, ,  and others). In many cases the article even explicitly stated that no specific Kaurna inhabitation had been recorded, but went on to give a basic history of the Kaurna anyway (). In my view this is not appropriate. I'd propose that articles for which Kaurna inhabitation can be verified have a one or two line statement to that effect, linking to Kaurna. Articles with more extensive verifiable material (specific to the place) may have a more detailed Kaurna history. This article should be improved to GA rather than sticking Kaurna references into other articles. I'll get it started by merging the verifiable deleted content into this article. -Yeti Hunter (talk) 23:31, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Coatracking

message: ::::YH, I wonder what goes on in your mind when you asked me above, "Are you seriously citing Warrabarna Kaurna to demonstrate that the Kaurna do not exist?" When I simply asked you in response to your question which you used to answer my question above, what real evidence, sources have got to prove that "Kaurna" ever existed other than that essentially created, perpetrated, perpetuated, posterity published, popularised 1920s-1974 by SA Museum's Ethnographer Norman Tindale's Tribes Map/s? in other words, you didn't really seriously answer my question in good faith, why? 
:::: In a more considered response to your subsequent closed question, "Are you seriously citing Warrabarna Kaurna to demonstrate that the Kaurna do not exist?" The easy answer is yes. Specifically I again challenge the way/s, point of view in which Dr Amery presented his data in Rob Amery, 2000 "WARRABARNA KAURNA" Chapter One, pp3-4.
::::As wikiEditors know, "Editing from a neutral point of view (NPOV) means representing fairly, proportionately, and as far as possible without bias, all significant views that have been published by reliable sources. All Wikipedia articles and other encyclopedic content must be written from a neutral point of view. NPOV is a fundamental principle of Wikipedia and of other Wikimedia projects. This policy is nonnegotiable and all editors and articles must follow it.
::::"Neutral point of view" is one of Wikipedia's three core content policies. The other two are "Verifiability" and "No original research". These three core policies jointly determine the type and quality of material that is acceptable in Wikipedia articles. Because these policies work in harmony, they should not be interpreted in isolation from one another, and editors should try to familiarize themselves with all three. The principles upon which this policy is based cannot be superseded by other policies or guidelines, or by editors' consensus."
::::For example, note as has Ramindjeri Sovereign Spokesman Karno Walker whom you've dismissed as an activist, despite Karno's 16 Dec 2009, clear publicly elected mandate how (Berndt & Berndt, 1993: 312) clearly published, Karloan's knowledge was most detailed in relation to his own dialectal unit, Yaraldi .... The material is relatively complete for all the Kukabrak [Ngarrindjeri] dialectal units, except for the Wakend and Ramindjeri. [NOTING TOO THAT KUKABRAK is clearly placed before that more recent "Taplin touched" since 1998 Crown Registered Native Title legal fiction invention, "NGARRINDJERI".]
::::What I've not yet seen is (Amery, 1998b) where Rob published, "the southern limits of Kaurna territory, on the basis of linguistic and historical evidence, and suggest that Kaurna territory may have extended as far eastward as Encounter Bay and that the occupation of Encounter Bay by the Ramindjeri in the late 1830s may have been a response to the activities of whalers in the area. It would appear that the 'Encounter Bay' people referred to by Colonel Light and other members of his party at Rapid Bay in 1836 were Kaurna speakers."
::::My genuine concern YH is that as it is Linguist Dr Rob Amery who suggests when Ramindjeri Sovereign Spokesman, Karno Walker clearly stated that Karno's apical ancestor "Princess" Con (daughter of "King" Condoy who Karno said met both Matthew Flinders and Nicholas Baudin at "Encounter Bay") aka Sally m William Walker, who walked, worked with Col William Light, interpreting, surveying what was to become "Adelaide", that there is a clearly concerning comprehension all based on Tindale's Tribal Map/s 1920s-1974 and Amery's posterity published, popularised works since.
::::What's concerning me here is that multiple million$, sometimes misspent money$ have been by SAGov over those years since 1999. See Lucas accuses Kaurna group of fraud from Question: Kaurna organisation & Matter of Interest: Kaurna organisation.
::::Equally interesting to also note, 
::::The Onkaparinga
::::In 1992, following disputes about building a marina at Sellicks Beach, ["Uncle" "Yerloburka"] Lewis O'Brien, a Kaurna Aborigine, and [another "Kaurna" claiming Kudnarto cousin also descended from Kudnarto's son Tim Adams wife Bessie Reeves from Clarendon] ["Nangkiburka"] G[eorgina "Yamba"] Williams claimed that the mouth of the Onkaparinga River was an Aboriginal women's site. They suggested that a phrase used by German scholars Teichelmann and Schurmann in their 1840 dictionary of the Kaurna language was evidence that "the Kaurna people talked about body parts". They concluded that Aborigines could identify the internal sexual organs of women and had noted their similarity to the Onkaparinga estuary.9
::::The Kaurna (Adelaide Plains) Aborigines are an entirely separate group from the Ngarrindjeri, but this was probably the start of "women's business" at Hindmarsh Island. At a gathering of leading men in the LMAHC, Chairman Victor Wilson showed Secretary Doug Milera an aerial photograph of Hindmarsh Island and said, "This is a woman, it's a creation of the Ngarrindjeri people and I'm going to Doreen Kartinyeri to explain it and to find out about it".10 Wilson and Milera had been involved in the Onkaparinga dispute and were able to apply the vagina/river mouth analogy to the Murray mouth and Hindmarsh Island.
::::The article was in one important respect, however, damaging to later claims about "women's business" at Hindmarsh Island, since the beliefs asserted about the Onkaparinga were not regarded as secret. The maps of the Onkaparinga estuary and mouth, provided by courtesy of the Adelaide Street Directory and the South Australian Education Department, were of the very same kind which opponents of the bridge claimed later would be a sacrilege to display in public, as well as threatening to Ngarrindjeri women, physically and spiritually. Furthermore, any such belief associated with Hindmarsh Island would have been used openly by opponents of the Bridge long before June, 1994, just as Mr O'Brien did during the Onkaparinga dispute.
::::The bottomline for me at least at this time YH is that a lot of what you've supported being posterity published so far has been from a select group of people who clearly are in dispute over decades with Ramindjeri and I'm concerned that this isn't at all adequately expressed by yourself and other wikiEditors in that ways in which for me at least, isn't NPOV eg I see "suggest", "would appear" and "may have", the latter twice quoted from (Amery, 1998b) above so I have to ask you YH as a part of critical peer review, where then is Dr Amery's thus your or other "Kaurna" wikiEditors "Verifiability" thus WP:BURDEN other than relatively recent, potentially biased publications over this last century? Matthew (talk) 16:48, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: tl;dr. I repeat: you are welcome to add any verifiable information published in reliable secondary sources to the article.--Yeti Hunter (talk) 05:26, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, ironic then to read from tl;dr, "As a label, it is sometimes used as a tactic to thwart the kinds of discussion which are essential in collaborative editing." As I've questioned your lack of wikiEditing good faith before I see your behaviours are true to form again ... Matthew (talk) 14:39, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Emperors wearing no clothes!?

message: ::::::::"The early settlers of South Australia referred to the various Kaurna bands of the Adelaide Plains and Fleurieu Peninsula as being separate tribes such as "the Adelaide tribe" (the Kouwandilla band), "the Noarlunga tribe" (the Ngurlonnga band) and the Willunga tribe (the Willangga band) etc.Betty Ross, Aboriginal and Historic Places around Metropolitan Adelaide and the South Coast Anthropological Society of South Australia 1984 Pg 5  The name Kaurna was not widely used for the language group until popularised by Norman B. Tindale in the 1920s. It most likely derives from the Ramindjeri or Ngarrindjeri word kornar meaning "men" or "people". "Uncle" Lewis O'Brien, a Kaurna Elder during the 1990s, suggested that a more appropriate name for his people might be Meyunna, from the local word for "people", meyu." 
::::::::I've not yet seen Betty Ross (ed), 1984 Aboriginal and Historic Places around Metropolitan Adelaide and the South Coast Anthropological Society of South Australia Pg 5 yet to read, confirm or otherwise, have you? Maybe I need to contact "Journal | Anthropological Society of South Australia". Clearly all this further emphasises the on-going need for an independent investigative inquiry. Matthew (talk) 16:01, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Etymology

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