Talk:New Vrindaban

message: I added the POV tag because this article contains information that is written as though the article is a publicity piece-
"cow protection program that provides love and care to our substabtial bovine population"
"spreading the teachings of Krsna Consciousness in many progressive and exciting fashions"
"The Palace became a beacon of Krsna consciousness"
etc.
crisw 04:40, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The article is definitely unencyclopedic and promotional in its present form. If there are no objections I will start rephrasing it tomorrow towards a NPOV. Rumiton (talk) 10:19, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Started today. A couple of statements require a specific reference and page number. Rumiton (talk) 10:39, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

text: The article still reads like promotional literature for tourists, if not for devotees. PurpleChez (talk) 12:28, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, I will remove the blatant stuff and you can help. Wikidas© 12:31, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV tag 

message: Shouldn't this be moved to New Vrindaban? Badagnani (talk) 20:03, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spelling 

message: Thank you Henry for making the ref more neutral, but now the word advent used as a verb gives me pause. I can't find it in my Oxford. If this is, as I suspect, part of the house vocabulary of ISKCON it should probably be replaced by something more English and encyclopedic. Thanks. Rumiton (talk) 11:10, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Krishna 5000 years ago

message: The AFD that closed on 24 March 2010 had a consensus to merge the content of Prabhupada's Palace of Gold into this article. Right now the Palace of Gold is covered in the /* History */ section. The first two paragraphs are fully covered there. However, the remaining four paragraphs of the Prabhupada's Palace of Gold article still need to be merged. Should /* Palace of Gold */ be a subheading under the /* History */ section ? or should it be a top level heading ? Should the remaining four paragraphs be trimmed, since, for example, the quotation really doesn't add much? --Bejnar (talk) 19:16, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Top level heading and yes, trimming is a good idea. You are right there. Wikidas© 22:39, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

text: Hello Henry, I think that part should be included in the article as well, because there are some problems with the Palace of Gold complex. Don't get me wrong, it's a beautiful place, and I ain't no architect, but it doesn't take an architect to see that there are some problems. I last visited as a tourist last summer, 2007. The main part of the palace, the part where the stained-glass windows section leads to the inner temple room doesn't seem to be in too bad of shape. The outer walls of the main palace don't really look too bad either (some spots of deterioration here and there.) However, it's the outer walls around the main palace that seem to be deteriorating and crumbling in some places. If one looks at those outer walls even a little bit, they can see this. Especially the wall around the palace visible from the road, the one that isn't attached to the palace. That outer wall was most likely made as cheaply and quickly as possible. One can see some spots on this wall where the faux red brick is crumbling, exposing a cheap-looking wire mesh and plaster construct underneath. If anyone wants to see evidence of these things, then they can check out this video on Google videos about the "Palace of Gold Makeover" that took place in 2006. In that video, one can see where parts of the complex are deteriorating and crumbling, and the ISKCON Youth Ministry shown in the video repairs some sections and also paints. Like I said, the last time I visited the palace, last summer 2007, it didn't look too bad, but there were some visible signs of deterioration on the outer walls and especially the wall around the palace that isn't directly attached to the main building. Perhaps one thing that isn't said enough about this place in general is that it is located on a hill with an excellent view of the surrounding tree-covered hills and valleys. When one first approaches the palace after driving through the hills on those long winding country roads, it is still an interesting sight to see. Fartbucket (talk) 21:22, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

text: Well, 75.88.124.32, for the record, it was Ism schism who removed your comments regarding this issue twice from the article. The first time at 13:21, 22 June 2008, and the second time at 04:44, 24 June 2008, according to the revision history logs for this article. I see nothing wrong with your comment about "poor building techniques and materials", which was stated in the following sentence: "Since the early 1990s, due to mismanagement, poor building techniques and materials, and lack of sufficient financial resources, Palace maintenance has been sometimes neglected, but tens of thousands of tourists and Hindu pilgrims reportedly still visit each year.[4]" Perhaps if we try and discuss this issue with Ism schism, either on this talk page or on Ism schism's talk page, we can work this matter out in a way most agreeable to everyone based on the evidence. I think there's enough evidence to state what you have indicated in that particular sentence for the article, and Henry seemed to also confirm this above. We've discussed this matter here and are open for others to speak their minds on this matter also. What I find interesting, is that the palace was mostly built by devotees who were, more or less, "regular people", and were not architects or even highly skilled at building (for the most part.) This may be another reason for some design flaws. Yet, they built this interesting shrine for their spiritual leader, Prabhupada, in the hills of West Virginia. In my opinion, the story of how it was accomplished, even though it can be wild and scandalous at times, is still quite fascinating. Fartbucket (talk) 23:06, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Merger of Palace of Gold

message: When my book is published there will be a valid reference source for this:
Cheating on the concrete.
To Kirtanananda Swami, time was of the utmost importance. He wanted Prabhupada’s Palace finished as soon as possible, and in order to get the most service out of the New Vrindaban residents he preached to them to “surrender totally to Krishna.” Yet in his haste to build the Palace quickly, sometimes quality was sacrificed, which in decades to come, would prove ruinous as the Palace eventually began crumbling and falling apart in the late 1980s and early 1990s.
Bhagavatananda, the Palace designer and construction supervisor (at least until 1977-78) explained, “They were cheating on the concrete, the water mix, and the measurements on the engineering for the rebar [concrete reinforcing steel rods]. I said, ‘You people are looking for trouble, because if this stuff fails, these things can fall on people.’ That’s one of the disagreements I had with Kirtanananda. He’d tell me, ‘You’re not surrendered.’ In other words: ‘just shut up; I’m taking care of it; I’m doing it.’ I don’t think it was to save money; I think it was because there were egos involved. This woman [Sanatan Devi Dasi] came along who was an architect. And she was supposed to be the one to take the credit for the whole thing.”
Bhagavatananda Das, telephone conversation with the author (June 30, 2005), cited by Henry Doktorski in "Chapter 6: Prabhupada’s Palace of Gold," from Gold, Guns 'n God (2008 manuscript). Henrydoktorski (talk) 10:52, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello Henry, I think that part should be included in the article as well, because there are some problems with the Palace of Gold complex. Don't get me wrong, it's a beautiful place, and I ain't no architect, but it doesn't take an architect to see that there are some problems. I last visited as a tourist last summer, 2007. The main part of the palace, the part where the stained-glass windows section leads to the inner temple room doesn't seem to be in too bad of shape. The outer walls of the main palace don't really look too bad either (some spots of deterioration here and there.) However, it's the outer walls around the main palace that seem to be deteriorating and crumbling in some places. If one looks at those outer walls even a little bit, they can see this. Especially the wall around the palace visible from the road, the one that isn't attached to the palace. That outer wall was most likely made as cheaply and quickly as possible. One can see some spots on this wall where the faux red brick is crumbling, exposing a cheap-looking wire mesh and plaster construct underneath. If anyone wants to see evidence of these things, then they can check out this video on Google videos about the "Palace of Gold Makeover" that took place in 2006. In that video, one can see where parts of the complex are deteriorating and crumbling, and the ISKCON Youth Ministry shown in the video repairs some sections and also paints. Like I said, the last time I visited the palace, last summer 2007, it didn't look too bad, but there were some visible signs of deterioration on the outer walls and especially the wall around the palace that isn't directly attached to the main building. Perhaps one thing that isn't said enough about this place in general is that it is located on a hill with an excellent view of the surrounding tree-covered hills and valleys. When one first approaches the palace after driving through the hills on those long winding country roads, it is still an interesting sight to see. Fartbucket (talk) 21:22, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

text: Well, 75.88.124.32, for the record, it was Ism schism who removed your comments regarding this issue twice from the article. The first time at 13:21, 22 June 2008, and the second time at 04:44, 24 June 2008, according to the revision history logs for this article. I see nothing wrong with your comment about "poor building techniques and materials", which was stated in the following sentence: "Since the early 1990s, due to mismanagement, poor building techniques and materials, and lack of sufficient financial resources, Palace maintenance has been sometimes neglected, but tens of thousands of tourists and Hindu pilgrims reportedly still visit each year.[4]" Perhaps if we try and discuss this issue with Ism schism, either on this talk page or on Ism schism's talk page, we can work this matter out in a way most agreeable to everyone based on the evidence. I think there's enough evidence to state what you have indicated in that particular sentence for the article, and Henry seemed to also confirm this above. We've discussed this matter here and are open for others to speak their minds on this matter also. What I find interesting, is that the palace was mostly built by devotees who were, more or less, "regular people", and were not architects or even highly skilled at building (for the most part.) This may be another reason for some design flaws. Yet, they built this interesting shrine for their spiritual leader, Prabhupada, in the hills of West Virginia. In my opinion, the story of how it was accomplished, even though it can be wild and scandalous at times, is still quite fascinating. Fartbucket (talk) 23:06, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Poor Building Techniques

message: On 18 September 2007 User:Crisw placed a POV tag on the article. No discussion has taken place here about those problems, if any. Based upon the lack of discussion, and the changes in the article since the tag was placed, I have removed the POV tag. If anyone has POV concerns, please express them here identifying the specific language and why it has POV problems. That would help other editors, such as myself, to rewrite the problematic sentences. Without specifics there is not much that we can do. Thanks. --Bejnar (talk) 01:49, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: POV tag

message: This article is not consistent with news reports such as that at http://web.archive.org/web/20120728044538/http://www.rickross.com/reference/krishna/krishna79.html
NYTimes  http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/25/us/swami-bhaktipada-ex-hare-krishna-leader-dies-at-74.html
"
who later pleaded guilty to federal racketeering charges that included conspiracy to commit the murders-for-hire of two devotees,
"
The facts behind the expulsion concern racketeering and a double homicide with guilty plea?
How to reconcile this article with the likes of http://www.neirr.org/Krishnaproblems.htm ??
What is the NPOV term for a bogus citation such as #4 ? That reference is irrelevant to the statement to which it is attached.  A proper citation would be to a US newspaper court report as to the legally determined cause for the expulsion.  Had Mr. Ham been found not guilty (had he not pled guilty) is it reasonable to assume that expulsion would have occurred regardless?
G. Robert Shiplett 02:04, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV warning 

message: The "References and footnotes" section leads off with a statement, "All information is sourced to the following article unless stated otherwise:", and a citation that leads to a subscription-required article dated 2006. 
As of January 2016 the article is well-footnoted and what sentences remain un-footnoted could be checked and referenced to other articles easily, so the statement no longer applies. But the article might have unique content. Should it be removed, or moved to "See also," or linked like the regular reference it should be to some specific content, if someone has access to the article? Fishlandia (talk) 15:18, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confusing reference  

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thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018) 

message: A POV article by now 2018, not mentioning most  of the controversies backed by RSes. 
A reminder to fellow Wikipedians: you should not revert such talk page comments (see the history of this page): as they are not in the article itself. 
Do not do it again.  Zezen (talk) 09:05, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV again as of 2018