Talk:Avicennism

message: Ibn-e-Sina wasn't an Islamic Philosopher, he was an anti-Islamic Philosopher. This is all lies. He belongs to the
movement of Anti-Islamists back then. The fact that Al-Ghazali was against him proves that. This article has no single word of truth in it.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.243.34.42 (talk) 05:58, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

message: If you want an article on this subject read this; Avicenna By Lenn Evan Goodman Published by Routledge, 1992 , 9780415019293 240 pages J8079s (talk) 20:20, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Goodman Does mention "Avicennism" but its not whats in the article.J8079s (talk) 18:29, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I was going to dispute using , instead of , but taking a look at the history I discovered one user who have a history of misrepresenting sources heavily. Rursus dixit. (mbork3!) 13:32, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  sources 

message: I am going to reprimand everyone including my self for edit warring J8079s (talk) 19:02, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit war 

message: *If you don't have time leave as a re-direct. If you need info on Avicenna for school or other reasons see Avicenna at Iranica  (Iranica does not have a page for Avicennism)
*If you do have time Avicennism is not a common term see google book search  there are no books about Avicennism although many books use the term none have chapters or sections labeled so. See   
: A definition from 1901:
:: Avicennism. The doctrine of Avicenna, the greatest thinker of the Muslim world in the East.
Avicenna's philosophy consists mainly of Aristotelianism plus Neo-Platonism; but the mystic elements drawn from the latter are affected by Mazdaism (q. v.). He is thus interested mainly in philosophy on its religious side, and his system is a doctrine of Being, based on Aristotle. God is necessary being; space, time, and the like, which receive necessity from God, are actual being; while the objects of the physical sciences are possible being. God is thus shot through all things, and the doctrine of emanation mediates between a crude creationism and an equally crude materialism. Hence Avicenna's doctrine of an 'active' intellect, common to all men, imparted to them, and destined to return again to God. In spite of this, Avicenna holds personal immortality. His doctrines had wide influence in mediaeval thought. Those who opposed Averroes respected Avicenna, not perceiving that the later thinker only drew the logical conclusions to which the earlier unconsciously pointed. It should be noted that his influence is most marked in Dante and the Mystics. 
*Link to history 
*I suggest starting in WP:userspace or at Avicenna
J8079s (talk) 19:02, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: fix it

message: Although I see a clear consensus to make this page a re-direct myself, WMC, Rursus, and Cynwolfe in favor and feel I have addressed the issues raised by AAM. as a sign of good faith I will put up a stub (probably more like disambiguation). I'll give this a few hours but I think its been up to long now.J8079s (talk) 21:52, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: J, I perceive the outline of a philosophic impulse here, moving on from ibn-Rushd to find expression in ibn-Sina; later to influence Dante. If I am correct, why should we not have an article on it? I understand we have plenty of articles on Japanese railway stations and Brazilian soap operas, why not this one? If it is a proper term, and it has no book, why not an article? We have a couple of journal articles. . There are plenty of Wikipedia articles on subjects that have no books written on them alone. -Aquib (talk) 22:07, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  You're missing the point, and probably will, no matter how often people explain it. I'll try again though. Having an article would be fine. Having an article containing the text that this article currently contains isn't fine, cos its junk. Keeping a redirect until someone is prepared to actually write a decent article would be the best solution William M. Connolley (talk) 22:29, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes an article on Avicennism is even a good idea Corbin would be a source. In most cases its better to have Something than to insist on Something good however in this case what we have is worse than nothing as its just a dump for any thing that could be found that mentioned Avicenna whether or not it had anything to do with Avicennism. The history is really of no value as the original was cut and pasted from Avicenna. I feel that my offer to create a stub is a very generous one in light of the consensus (about which there is discord) J8079s (talk) 00:48, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: In fact that is not my point. It has never been my point. My point is a redirect will obscure the history of the article, and obscure the fact the article needs attention. Now, I am willing to discuss this, would be happy to do so, but in point of fact I have made this statement several times in several different places and I have yet to receive a reply or any discussion. -Aquib (talk) 06:31, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

text: I am not clear on the implications of using a disambiguation in this context, as is mentioned by J above. I assume this is a redirect to a disambiguation page, but in this scenario it would seem to have the opposite effect. To take a concept a mingle it with other related terms, one of which would be the correct one anyway? -Aquib (talk) 06:34, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Oh, if that is your problem, that you can rest easy. A redirect doesn't obscure the article history, it remains fully available William M. Connolley (talk) 07:42, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I am not convinced it is not obscured; In other words, I am not convinced redirected articles are as likely to get the attention they need in order to be recovered. The more I look at this article, the more important it seems to be. -Aquib (talk) 08:22, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Edit warring merely because you don't understand the way article history is done is very bad. If you think the article text needs attention, then give it some attention. So far you've done absolutely nothing William M. Connolley (talk) 08:40, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

text:  I should probably also address the "no consensus" given as a reason for reverting by AAM and Al-A in edit summaries. This isn't an argument: there is clearly no universal agreement on either version, so "no consensus" isn't an argument for reverting the article to another "no consensus" version. If the argument is "no consensus means the article should default to its prior state" then no: that isn't a valid argument either. You have to argue why your version is good. I've argued why the Jagged version is bad, and I see no attempt by AAM or Al-A or anyone else to argue that it is good William M. Connolley (talk) 14:07, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good faith 

message: ,,I think that there is clear distinction between Avicennism(Hikmat Al MAshreqiyyah) with Aristotelian views of Avicenna. here some points have to pointed out: the first is that Avicenna has two different part of scientific life. in first part he is affected by Aristotelian school of thought but in second period not only he is not Aristotelian but also he invented a philosophy by the name of Easten philosophy or Hikmat Mashreqy. the second point comebacks to translation of Hikmat Mashreqy which caused many misunderstandings between scholars. according to these translation some bodies like Edaward packook,one of the  translators of Hayy ibn Yaqdhan and also F.B. Pusey had misunderstandings of Hikmat Mashreqiyyah.Edaward packook known the Hikmat Mashreqyyah as Indian philosophy and F.B. Pusey known it as illuminative philosophy.also Karadovoo known Hikmat mashreqi as a kind of Illuminative philosophy according to words of Ibn Rosh or Averroes.Max Hortenhttps://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Hortenknown  known Hikmat Al Mashreqi as myth. Huart also counted the Hikmat al mashreqi as Neo-Platonism.but among these scholars Nellino not only knows the Avicennism or Hikmat Al Mashreqi something which is different of Aristotelian views but also pointed out that Avicenna's views in Hikmat Mashreqi clearly different of his view in The book of healing.Nallino believes that Avicenna clearly explain his views on philosophy regardless of Aristotelian principles. also Lui Masignion knows Hikamt Mashreqi as reconciliation between philosophy in Greek sense with Hikmat in Sami sense. for further information see here:http://cgie.org.ir/fa/publication/entryview/16140--m,sharaf (talk) 19:06, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: in defense of Avicennism or Hikmat Al Mashreqiyyah

message: Preserved here:
: ===orientalists's view===
 
: orientalists have challenges on the current of Avicennism.At the same time there are many confusions among scholars particularly orientalists and orientalism about the book of "al Hikmat al Mashreqi".It seems that investigation on Hikmah Al Mashreqi initiated by Edward Pococke. He also was the translator of Hayy ibn Yaqdhan from Arabic to latina. He says that it is very difficult to clear what is intended by Avicenna in Hikmat Al Mashreqyyah. Apparently Avicenna said something about eastern philosophy or Indian philosophy versus peripatetic's teaching.After Edward Pococke, other translators also translated mashreqiyyah as mashreqi or eastern.Another orientalist and churchman, Edward Bouverie Pusey believed that the hikmah Al mashreqiyyah is  identical with Illumination wisdom(hikmah al Ishraq) in introduction of ibn Tufayl's Hayy ibn Yaqdhan in 1835.Hereinafter  Monk believed that hekmat Al Mashreqi as  the theory of unity of existence.
 
: Also  Baron karadovo also translated Hikmat al Mashreqi as  Ishraqi hikmah and at the same time has believed that this is false to know mashreqi as Sharqi just as some pupils of Avicenna thought in this way.according to Baron Karadovo these pupils distorted the thought of Avicenna into Kaldanian paganism and or Indian mysticism.Eventually he had known the book of hekmat Al mashreqi as a book in Ishraqi School. He also explained that Avicenna had a hidden and esoteric tend into Ishraqi hikmah.
 
: Germanian scholar, Max Horten believes that Avicenna's opinions in Hikmah Al Mashreqi is myth and said that what was important for Avicenna is a kind of mystical knowledge which is introduced in articulation of Aristotelian philosophy.
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My thoughts are that this author of this should enter it into whichever language version of Wikipedia he/she is fluent in. It's difficult to tease everything out here. Maybe someone with a better grasp of the material and the language can rework this start, but as it stands, it doesn't belong in the main article.
::i try to translate and explain the intention as far as possible by my word..why deletion?--m,sharaf (talk) 23:19, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  That's an odd question. The answer is, what the anon wrote. Which I trust you've already read William M. Connolley (talk) 08:26, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: if the grammar and editing is not suitable, this part need some editors to improve it. the weakness of grammar not cause User to delete it.but he has to improve it.--m,sharaf (talk) 10:09, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  Please read what the anon said, but more carefully this time William M. Connolley (talk) 11:51, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I read what he said repeatedly. he believes that i have to enter these words in my fluent language. later some one with better language translate these words into english. but my point is that my words here is not witout any comprehensibility. it is unfair to judge in such a way.--m,sharaf (talk) 12:17, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  OK, you've failed to read what he wrote. Here it is, with the bit that you've persistently avoided seeing in bold: removed unsourced and... William M. Connolley (talk) 17:17, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

text: where he refers to source? I could not see it?..but these words at the same time has source.as follow:http://www.cgie.org.ir/fa/publication/entryview/16140--m,sharaf (talk) 17:53, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bad Section 

message: This article – in its present form – is little more than a stub.  It no longer meets (if it ever did) the criteria for a B-Class article: the information is not essentially complete, and would not satisfy more than the most cursory of inquiries.  It's also repetitive and self-contradictory.  
One source is quoted as two, where the only apparent difference is in using the 10- versus the 13-digit ISBN, and the two contradictory statements are supported by references that seem to be only 5 pages apart.  Could an editor who has access to a copy of "Corbin1998" (i.e. Corbin, Henry (1998). The Voyage and the Messenger: Iran and Philosophy. Berkeley, CA, US: North Atlantic Books. ISBN 9781556432699. OCLC 970420613) please reduce these two sources to one (with page number), while deciding whether Corbin opines that there are two or three varieties of "Avicennism"?
I'd like to understand both of the following:
#Ibn Sīnā's philosophy; and
#the school or schools of philosophy created by his successors, both oriental and occidental.
As I understand it, the first should appear in the article Ibn Sīnā itself – and it does; and the second should appear in the current article.  But this article fails to even indicate how any subsequent "Avicennists" developed his ideas, in either the East or the West.
yoyo (talk) 16:44, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Below B-Class