Talk:Juan Carlos I

message: Are you kidding? Preceding unsigned comment by 212.8.98.118 talk, 13:10, 8 March 2010
He was often portrayed wearing a carlist red beret. Google ‘propaganda painting of Franco’.
Note he is also sometimes wearing a black shirt, with red yoked arrows. Black and red were the colors of the Falange (Spanish Fascists), and the yoked arrows were their symbol. He drew support from several elements, including Carlists, for his ‘National Movement’.
2A00:23C7:E287:1901:883E:AA7C:C3EE:D2D1 (talk) 10:14, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Franco a Carlist???? 

message: Why does the discussion of an Iberian Union have anything to do with this article, especially in the first section?  It seems completely out of context.  Hpa (talk) 14:03, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Iberian Union 

message: Those who were interested in the title of this article might also be interested in the title of the article on the corresponding warship - see Talk:Spanish ship Juan Carlos I (L61)#Requested move.--Kotniski (talk) 11:41, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Footnote

message: The vast majority of asserted facts in this article lack citations.  They are most likely true and do not appear to be controversial but this is a BLP and requires full citation.  Veriss (talk) 08:04, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Most of this article is not cited 

message: I recently noticed that almost all the articles relating to modern royals are including this so called monograms, Im stranged by the fact none of them show citations, I've never seen before these monograms, I know they do exist, but are they accurate??? I would like to know where doest the author is getting the graphic data to create them. Lefairh (talk) 16:39, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  The monograms 

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thread_title: File:1 euro coin Es serie 2.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

message: *For his regnal name, he opted not to call himself "Juan III" (or "Carlos V") but to continue using his first and second name and rule as "Juan Carlos I". 
But surely he always called himself Juan Carlos? These articles: "Franco Looks to the Future: Monarchy to a Dictator's Pattern", in The World Today, Vol. 12, No. 1, Jan., 1956; "Twenty Years of Franco", in Foreign Affairs, Vol. 37, No. 2, Jan., 1959; and "The Claim of Carlos Hugo de Bourbon-Parma to the Spanish Throne", in Background, Vol. 8, No. 3, Nov., 1964 are just three articles at random I found on Jstor that call him that.  Scolaire (talk) 16:30, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  'Opted not to call himself...' 

message: I'm used to editing American military biographies, so I don't have to worry about photo licensing a lot. I just came across this article, and I figured it would look nice with an official portrait of the king. All of the ones here can "be freely reproduced for personal and private use", but it says that authorization of other uses must be given from H.M. the King’s Household. Does anyone have any idea how to go about getting said permission? Rockhead126 (talk) 01:37, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Official portrait permission

message: How can two lines of text of the indtorduction mentioning the same political system link to two different articles?--Mideal (talk) 12:10, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  "monarquía parlamentaria" (parliamentary monarchy)/parliamentary democracy 

message: "asim Mahmood" ? WTF!? I saw the Spanish article and delete this now.--Mideal (talk) 12:21, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  FUll name 

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thread_title: File:Nicolae e Juan Carlos.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: Compound given names in Spanish are pronounced as if they were only one word:  shows José Luis is pronounced in Spanish as "joseluís", i.e. [xose'lwis]. In the same vein, Juan Carlos is  [xwaŋˈkarlos] not  [ˈxwaŋ ˈkarlos]. Lubrom (talk) 15:28, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation 

message: According to the Guardian, following the recent scandals: 'Even the king's private life, where rumours of lovers have always been rife, is no longer out of bounds – and neither is his friendship with a German aristocrat whose name is widely available in Spain and Germany, but whose lawyers say she denies any inappropriate relationship and have threatened legal action against any British newspapers that reveal her name. "The failure of his marriage to Queen Sofia, from whom he is practically separated, is public knowledge," said José Antonio Zarzalejos, a former editor of the conservative ABC newspaper, in his online column.' Shouldn't this be covered here... the article currently gives the impression that the king and queen are a couple? Malick78 (talk) 20:55, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Corinna zu Sayn-Wittgenstein or Corinna Larson 
*"Incluso, el diario italiano “La Stampa” se atrevió a escribir que “en España hay dos reinas: la oficial, Sofía, de 73 años, casada desde 1962 con el rey Juan Carlos y la oficiosa, la provocante y rubia princesa Corinna zu Sayn-Wittgenstein, de 46, separada y amante desde hace cuatro años del soberano más tombeur (casanova) de femmes de Europa”."() 
*"Im Mai 2006 trat der König zum ersten Mal öffentlich mit Prinzessin Corinna auf, bei den „Laureus-Sport-Awards“ in Barcelona. Im selben Jahr nahm Juan Carlos sie mit zu seinem Vetter Herzog Carl zu Württemberg (75). Laut dem spanischen Portal „El confidencial“ ist sie sogar schon einmal als Vertreterin des Monarchen aufgetreten, bei einem Treffen mit dem saudi-arabischen Prinz Alwaleed bin Talal." ()--80.136.29.101 (talk) 20:21, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Marriage

message: Spanish and Foreing Honours detailed at List of titles and honours of Juan Carlos I of Spain as Article Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom all data translated there, there were duplicated.--Galico (talk) 14:20, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Titles, Styles and Honours 

message: The ancestors mentioned here as Pelaius, Ferdinand and Isabelle are dubious if not wrong. The spanish line was broken when one Charles (III?) died without sons and the title went to Philip V (french dinasty). --81.38.101.194 (talk) 04:26, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Ancestors

message: If not already done, does someone want to work Juan Carlos I into the discussion about regnal names (in THAT article)?  Notice he has a double name AND we are commonly seeing use of "I" (i.e., "the first"), which is sometimes but not always done with the first ruler to use a particular name.  I do see the British monarchy mentioned above in a now-archived discussion; John, Anne, and Victoria have no numbers (no other British monarchs have had those names), and the queen who is now called Elizabeth I formerly had no number (this changed in 1952 because of Elizabeth II).
I wonder about the number, too. *Why* does he have a number, when there was no other Spanish monarch of that name? The English way is the one I learned; no number till you get another monarch of the same name, then the first one gets the number ‘I’, posthumously.
This does not necessarily apply to Spain, of course. So, what is the thinking? Some discussion of this point could improve the article. 2A00:23C7:E287:1901:18CA:6327:B0BF:C9D8 (talk) 10:21, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: No need to use "I" or to mention it. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 11:30, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "the first" -- also, use of a double name 

message: He has renounced to the title in favour of his heir Philip. We need to update the page soon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Moi961 (talk • contribs) 
:You mean heir, not hair. But he'll remain as king until the relevant legal work has been done. Please don't change the article to make it look like he's stopped being king yet. AlexTiefling (talk) 14:23, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Last word I saw was that the abdication won't take effect until sometime after the new year. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:32, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Got a source for that? If true, that would be significantly slower than any of last year's royal abdications. However, if true, that's a further reason for not prematurely adding a 'to' date to anything. AlexTiefling (talk) 14:37, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Correction I misread this article which said he resolved to abdicate in January when he turned 76. For some reason I read that as future tense when it's actually past. This is likely to occur more quickly than I had thought. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:00, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

text: By the way, his name is Felipe, not Philip. When he does become, his Wikipedia page will presumably be moved to Felipe VI of Spain. Tad Lincoln (talk) 20:24, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: And Elizabeth II's name is Elizabeth II, not Isabel II. Names of monarchs have traditionally been "translated". The only monarch whose name is regularly "translated" today is the pope, so I doubt everyone who referred to the Prince of Asturias as Felipe will now start calling him Philip. Surtsicna (talk) 21:16, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, I'm aware of that. But that's generally not done in English anymore, as you yourself are clearly aware. My point was, his name is Felipe and that is the name he is known by in English, not Philip. Tad Lincoln (talk) 00:23, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

text: Oh, and he just might become Philip/Felipe VIII if the Basques start nagging. Surtsicna (talk) 21:21, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Have the Basques ever asserted Navarrese regnal numbers for the Spanish monarchs?--The Emperor's New Spy (talk) 19:02, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it appears that they have. There are several books referring to "Carlos VII de Navarra", many of which were published in Navarre during his reign. See also Felipe VII de Navarra. Surtsicna (talk) 19:48, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

text: According to this official source today, the required constitutional law is in draft form and is to be fast tracked through the parliament, after which it will come into force when gazetted: Draft Constitutional Law on the abdication of HM King Juan Carlos I de Borbón.  The king's abdication speech did not anticipate a date.  The parliament, of course, can specify any date for gazetting that it pleases;  or it can amend the bill so that a date different from that of gazetting is provided.  Wikiain (talk) 00:11, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  King no more 

message: We need sources for the 'Restoration' section. I was about to use this Daily Telegraph article:  - but if I was the author's university examiner, I'd send him back to write something that didn't depend as obviously on our own article! AlexTiefling (talk) 13:00, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, and I've fixed a red link I introduced, by creating a new article for Jesús Posada Moreno. AlexTiefling (talk) 15:45, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  More sources needed 

message: In the "Titles, styles, honours and arms" section it states "22 November 1975 – present: His Majesty The King"
Do we know what his style will be once the abdication is official? -- 63.243.41.35 (talk) 21:06, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Not yet. There was an article in El Pais speculating that he'll retain his father's title of Count of Barcelona, but nothing definite. Let's wait and see. AlexTiefling (talk) 09:57, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Some of Juan Carlos's predecessors also abdicated in favour of their sons. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe they retained their title. Obviously, he would not be the king. I believe Isabella II, Ferdinand VII, Charles IV and Philip V all kept their title. Surtsicna (talk) 15:01, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: As far as I can tell, and sources are scarce, Philip V was known as "King Philip of Spain" during the reign of Louis I, who was "The King of Spain" for the same period. This seems similar to the current situation with Popes: Pope (Emeritus) Benedict still has the title 'Pope', but 'The Pope' is unambiguously Pope Francis. AlexTiefling (talk) 15:55, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Catholic monarchs in general tend to keep their title after abdication. Think of the kings of Belgium, Ferdinand I of Austria, Pope Benedict XVI, the kings of Sardinia, the grand dukes of Luxembourg, the kings of Bavaria, etc. The Protestant monarchs do not (Edward VIII of the United Kingdom, Beatrix of the Netherlands and her predecessors, Gustav IV Adolf of Sweden, etc). I am not sure if that is just a coincidence. Surtsicna (talk) 16:44, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't remember off-hand if Christina of Sweden (who was a Protestant monarch, but abdicated to become a Catholic) retained her title or not. Would it help or harm the theory if she did? AlexTiefling (talk) 16:47, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Honestly, I do not know how it would affect the theory, so I did not bother checking. If I were to guess, I would say that she did not. Surtsicna (talk) 17:27, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Style 

message: The Spanish and Basque Wikipedias have a whole article on his abdication. I don't know if this would be appropriate for the English one as we seem to sum it up in a short paragraph, but could this be a possibility? It is certainly an event which, by the look of the Spanish article, has led to a lot of reaction in Spain. tAD (talk) 18:15, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the normal wiki-process would be for the abdication section within this entry to grow longer and (one hopes) more interesting, until the natural thing becomes for someone to cut it out and paste it as (the start of) a separate entry.   But, at least in my judgement, I don't think we've got enough for that to happen yet.   What would be interesting, if you have the time and interest (and of course the linguistic knowledge), would be to short cut the process by translating some of the bits in the Spanish entry and copying them over (with their sources, of course...)   Success Charles01 (talk) 18:42, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. The Spanish article has bullet points on regional and international reactions, of which I've put a few into prose as listing them all in bullet points is inappropriate for the biography rather than an article on the abdication. tAD (talk) 15:03, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Abdication article 

message: There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Felipe VI of Spain which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RMCD bot 02:59, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Move discussion in progress

message: I've been trying to avoid saying the he ceased to be king; formally his son is king and head of state, JC still has the style of king. So instead of saying he "was king from 1975 to 2014" I tried "was reigning king from 1975 to 2014", which was reverted a couple of times, and have now put different wording referrring to head of state in place. There has been a brief discussion on my Talk page; I wrote the following (and the author of the comment to me may want to replace my paraphrase with his text to bring the debate here):
It was said that in someone's opinion Juan Carlos now has the title of 'King' as a sort of courtesy title, and that the title 'King of Spain' means the head of state, and thus applies only to his son. I said:
:I've not seen any source for this, i don't even know if it's been formally defined. He unquestionably remains King Juan Carlos. Rather than my most recent wording, I had earlier thought it best to specify the difference by saying he was "reigning king" until 19 June 2014, but someone reverted that a few times, so I have been seeking some wording that doesn't explicitly say that he ceased to be a king of Spain, bu does specify that he ceased to be head of state. I'll try to find something else that  avoids implying that he is not a king of Spain. I don't want to make a big point of saying "he's still a king of Spain", just unobtrusively not say explicitly he isn't. In brief, it's not reliable to say that he's not a king of Spain without a source. Pol098 (talk) 11:40, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: (copied from Pol098's user page:)My reading of article 56.2 here:  is that the title King of Spain belongs to the head of state. I think sourcing this one either way is going to be difficult. I suggest calling him 'King Juan Carlos' in the lead - because it's clear from casareal.es that that's still his title - and then say that he was head of state from X to Y. AlexTiefling (talk) 11:42, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The point I'm aiming at here isn't ultimately a pedantically correct definition; in a year's time when somebody see a reference in a newspaper to "King Juan Carlos of Spain visited the 2015 exhibition" and looks up who this is in Wikipedia, I don't want the article to start with something to the effect of "the former king of Spain", which is confusing (and a reader won't necessarily read on to find all the details). Pol098 (talk) 12:10, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps "...reigned as King of Spain from 1975 to 2014. He abdicated as head of state...". He is actually still referred to as a king, who is no longer head of state, after Felipe took over . Pol098 (talk) 09:37, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: He's no longer the King of Spain though, which is what we're aiming at. See the article Albert II of Belgium, for how former monarchs who keep their title, are handled. GoodDay (talk) 15:15, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: People will come here for information after they see "HM King Juan Carlos of Spain" or similar wording on the guest list of some international shindig. It's relevant, and right at the beginning, to make it clear that he abdicated as head of state and commander-in-chief of the armed forces, but is still a king (and has the same title as before, with "Don" inserted in Spanish). Pol098 (talk) 20:26, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: And why assume that people would assume that he is no longer styled as a king? "Don" was not inserted following abdication; it is an honorific that he has used all his life. Anyway, my point is that the lead should not discuss his present or past title and style in such a great detail, especially not the lead paragraph, and not before anything is said about his tremendously important reign. Surtsicna (talk) 20:44, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: How about: Juan Carlos I was the Spanish head of state from the restoration of the monarchy on 22 November 1975 to his abdication on 19 June 2014. He was succeeded by his son, Felipe VI. DrKay (talk) 20:39, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: It's factually correct, of course, but what is wrong with the present version? Surtsicna (talk) 20:44, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, nothing as far as I'm concerned. I'm happy with it personally. Sorry, I didn't make that clear. DrKay (talk) 20:50, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Still has title "king" 

message: Please remove the designation of a monarch as applied to the Papacy. The Papacy is not a monarchy and labelling it as such in the abdication section is misleading and strange.
162.136.192.1 (talk) 17:34, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: See #The Pope is a Monarch? section above. The article is not protected. DrKay (talk) 17:58, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

text: This again? Seriously? AlexTiefling (talk) 20:41, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 27 June 2014 

message: If it's considered that his predecessor is the previous head of the state, it is Franco, also, he swore to follow the principles of the "national movement" and declared receiving his legitimacy from the "glorious national uprising" in 1936.
If it's considered that his predecessor is the last person able to inherit the Spanish throne it should be his father, not his grandfather.
If it is considered that his predecessor is the last legitimate chief of state, it should be Juan Negrin
: Well let me clarify a few things: 
: 1.) The preceding Head of State to the King was not Franco, but Alejandro Rodríguez de Valcárcel, who was President of the Regency 
: Council of Spain for 2 days before the King's accession 
: 2.) This is quoted from Juan Carlos I's Wikipedia Article: "In 1978, the government promulgated a new constitution that acknowledged  
: Juan Carlos as the rightful heir of the Spanish dynasty and king; specifically, Title II, Section 57 asserted Juan Carlos's right to  
: the throne of Spain by dynastic succession in the Bourbon tradition, as "the legitimate heir of the historic dynasty" rather than as 
: the designated successor of Franco"
: 3.) The Count of Barcelona claimed the Crown but never wore it, and is not recognized by Spanish law as ever having been King, and he 
: renounced his claim to the throne sometime after his son's accession
: 4.) Juan Negrin was not the last Legitimate Head of State, that would be Manuel Azaña, who was the last President of Spain to hold 
: office before the start of the Spanish Civil War
: 5.) Therefore, pursuant to everything previously stated, as the preceding monarch who was the last undisputably legal monarch of Spain : was Alfonso XIII, he is Juan Carlos I's monarchical and only wholly legal predecessor CanadianPrince (talk) 04:24, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Juan Carlos I's reign did not begin in 1978. It began in 1975, with the so-called "Prince of Spain" swearing over the Principles of the Movimiento seamlessly following the law issued in 1969 anointing him as successor of Francisco Franco to the Headship of the State. Using an ad hoc phrasing from a legal text excreted years later as proof of whatnot is rather dubious. Most critically, interpreting the constitutional text in order to draw the idea it sets Alfonso XIII as "wholly legal predecessor" is a no go.--Asqueladd (talk) 18:00, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

text: Easy. Because the Spanish Constitution dates from 1978 and Juan Carlos was proclaimed king in 1975 in a perfectly (Francoist) legal manner (he was head of state before 29 December 1978 as legally as he was afterwards). (Personal attack removed) --Asqueladd (talk) 19:30, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

text: Why wasn't this discussion begun at the bottom of the talkpage? Anyways, I remember a similar argument at Alfonso XIII. -- GoodDay (talk) 22:23, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Predecessor is Franco, not Alfonso XIII 

message: Currently Juan Carlos redirects to this article. However, Juan Carlos is one of the most common names in the Spanish language. There are hundreds of men named as such. See Juan Carlos (disambiguation) for just a partial list. I would argue that Juan Carlos should link to a list of people named Juan Carlos, not just this one article. Crispulop (talk) 15:35, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Redirect Juan Carlos 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The image used on the Main Page is (imvho) a better one, it is brighter and sharper than the one in the infobox. Should the infobox image be changed? Mjroots (talk) 09:58, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't find the image used on the Main Page, but as far as I can tell that current image is from 2013 and that is the most recent image we have of the subject. Donna Spencertalk-to-me⛅ 16:29, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Infobox image

message: I've just removed a pic with some coins. It serves little purpose in the main biographical section below the effigy of the monarch in a note. If anyone has reliable secondary sources, for all purposes, feel free to create a standalone section about numismatics (both pesetas and euros) with the face of the man.--Asqueladd (talk) 08:08, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Numismatics 

message: There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Amadeo I of Spain which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RMCD bot 18:16, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Discussion has ended. :Juan Carlos I of Spain → . Donna Spencertalk-to-me⛅ 19:40, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move discussion in progress 

message: A discussion at Alfonso XIII is occurring, which may effect the infobox of this article. GoodDay (talk) 19:18, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Predecessor & successor. 

message: Is this really exile? The article mentions exile a couple of times.49.178.82.183 (talk) 08:30, 31 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Exile 

message: Juan Carlos I's house is wrong, it should be Bourbon-Anjou not Bourbon as he is a desendent of Philip V of Spain. Also his son, Felipe VI, has the house of Burbon-Anjou so why should'nt he have that house as well. 96.247.202.215 (talk) 21:07, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. DrKay (talk) 21:58, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

text: Yeah, maybe we should discuss that more to avoid this kind of war of editions we have right now. Meanwhile, those who support "House of Bourbon" should not add as a source that in Spanish we say "Casa de Borbón" (House of Bourbon) because when we say that (and the Royal Household), we are referreing to the Spanish branch (formally, Bourbon-Anjou), not to the French one (for us, it's not the same House, it's a foreign house that has nothing to do with ours (except that yes, they are related by blood)). So, please, restore it to the stable edition and let's open a discussion in order to solve the issue. TheRichic  (Messages here) 11:45, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 20 November 2022 

message: There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Alfonso XII which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RMCD bot 01:30, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move discussion in progress 

message: The text identifies the weapon that killed Juan Carlos' younger brother as "a .22 caliber Long Automatic Star revolver owned by Alfonso." It is unclear whether the caliber is .22 Short (the Wiki reference), .22 Long or .22 Long Rifle (LR); the "Long" in the name would appear to suggest either of the latter. A more serious question is whether the weapon was a revolver or an automatic pistol. Only one revolver to my knowledge can be termed "automatic": the British Webley-Fosbery self-cocking revolver of 1901. The Spanish gunmaker Star certainly did not manufacture any "automatic revolvers", so the gun was either a normal revolver or an automatic pistol. The Wiki article on the manufacturer Star Bonifacio Echeverria does not list any revolvers among the weapons produced by the company, so the gun was probably an automatic pistol, not a revolver. Death Bredon (talk) 20:03, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  The gun that killed Alfonso 

message: (non-automated message) Greetings! I have opened an RfC on WT:ROYALTY that may be of interest to users following this article talk page! You are encouraged to contribute to this discussion here! Hurricane Andrew (444) 19:53, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  RfC of interest