Talk:Millennialism

message: On 2 February 2004 an anonymous contributor edited the Millennialism article (which had not been edited for more than a year) and changed it considerably. I would ask anyone knowledgeable about the subject to check if the alterations are okay. What I certainly don't like is confusing terminology, which was also introduced today. In any case we should make sure it's millennium and millennia. <KF> 09:43, 2 Feb 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: What is relevant here is not Hitler as a person, it's the fact that millennial thinking did play a (minor) role in Nazi ideology. As the original article was much longer, less emphasis was seemingly placed on the Third Reich. Why do you say "pure nonsense", User:80.133.106.218? <KF> 14:43, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Annus or anus? 

message: Since the major views on the Millennium of Revelation 20 are Premillennialism, Postmillennialism, and Amillennialism, I'm wondering why only the latter two have their own article, while the former redirects to here.--PeterR 20:22, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Short answer...no one has written it yet.  :-)  --Cberlet 22:03, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: They have now. Arcan 13:06, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Premillennialism 

message: the phrase "messianic age" is a catch phrase used by Judaism to speak about the "Olam Ha Ba" or the Age to Come.  It has a distinctly Jewish feel to it and I don't think they would appreciate amalgumating it into the millenial article because that is primarily a Christian article.  The messianic age is similar but in my opinion distinct enough to keep as a separate entry. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by SlaveOFchrist (talk • contribs) 01:37, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. Millenialism is too broad to put into Messianic Age, and Messianic Age is important in other religions including Judaism, so it should not be inserted here. I am removing the merge template. nadav 02:52, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, Agree with S.W. and nadav.--Cberlet 03:14, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  keeping messianic age separate from millinialism 

message: The reference quoted:
- [...] einem tausendjährigen Volk mit tausendjähriger geschichtlicher und kultureller Vergangenheit für die vor ihm liegende unabsehbare Zukunft eine ebenbürtige tausendjährige Stadt zu bauen [...]. 
[...] to build a millennial city adequate [in splendour] to a thousand year old people with a thousand year old historical and cultural past, for its never-ending [glorious] future [...] 
This suggests to me that Hitler believed he was building a new city for a people/empire which had already lasted for a thousand years not as it has been interpreted lasting for a thousand years:
- "Hitler's "Third Reich" ("Drittes Reich", "Tausendjähriges Reich"), which, in his vision, would last for a thousand years - but which in reality only lasted for 12 years (1933-1945)."
Needs correcting??203.173.159.108 13:41, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Millennialism and Nazism 

message: "There have been many claims that a millennial panic..." and you only give two footnotes.  This section needs to be expanded with a list of the so-called many or else take out "many" and do a rewrite.
4.249.63.50 (talk) 22:39, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  fix weasel word 

message: Deleted this section. Based one the ideas of one person on one website. I would even suggest that it was included here by the same person, as this seems the only plausible explanation, even though it wasn't done by an editor with a user name. Holford (talk) 07:20, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Partial Rapture Premillennial 

message: The section on the reformation and beyond fails to note that the key figures in the Reformation, Luther and Calvin, were both vehement opponents of chilianism (millennialism). See Riddlebarger Riddlebarger, "Eschatology", in Reformation Theology: A Systematic Summary (edited by Matthew Barrett), pp.748 f. https://books.google.com.au/books?id=_0tUDgAAQBAJ&pg=PT703#v=onepage&q&f=false
As Riddlebarger argues, the mainstream Protestant denominations rejected the eschatalogical claims and preoccupations of the fringe Church/Sects such as Anababtists, Mormons, etc. This rejection was based on several grounds, including their rejection of the notion of a perfect community prior to the end of time, and their horror of groups justifying their existence on the basis of millennial claims. The current discussion on Reformation and Beyond would appear to be an attempt to sanitize the Mormon view of the subject.
This section needs to be rewritten and referenced to provide a more cogent explanation of the Lutheran and Calvinist Church's opposition to chilianism. Oxe10 (talk) 02:26, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reformation and Beyond - POV 

message: Hello, Editor2020 -- You will have observed the considerable discussion above, leading to compromise and agreement. But now a considerable revision, with no discussion involved. Among the revisions, is the omission of the central point of Christian Millennialism -- namely, the purpose of the Millennium. In discussion with editor Warshy, we extremely shortened our comments on that point, down to the essence. I thought it was a feasible compromise, though much more in the direction of editor Warshy, than of myself. Would it be agreeable to add back this sentence following? If so, I would do that, but wait for your comments, please. The proposed change -- (( Bible Students hold for universal opportunity for every person, past and present, not previously recipients of a heavenly calling, to gain everlasting life on Earth during the Millennium. )) Without this, the point and purpose of the Millennium is missing. Thus the existence of the Millennium is vacuous. Is this agreeable? Thank you -- David RiceDavRice (talk) 23:24, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I had said the same thing in the discussion between us above, that this statement needed a secondary reliable reference. And this is precisely the reason  removed it, when he recently did some generic editing and corrections on the entire page. So, I agree with his editing and correction of this section. This sentence is currently unreferenced, and that is why it was removed. Thank you, warshy (¥¥) 17:20, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, I see. It is so fundamental a point among Bible Students, that it is not disputed. But here is the addition for the text itself -- (( Bible Students hold for universal opportunity for every person, past and present, not previously recipients of a heavenly calling, to gain everlasting life on Earth during the Millennium. )) ---- and here is a suggested supporting reference, the material between the double parens following. Is this agreeable? ---- (( "According to God's arrangement in providing a ransom, all mankind ... must be delivered from the original penalty, 'the bondage of corruption,' death, else the ransom does not avail for all. ... The object of our Lord's death and resurrection was not merely to bless and rule over and restore the living of mankind, but ... the dead as well as the living, insuring the benefits of his ransom as much to the one as to the other" (Studies in the Scriptures, Volume One, "The Divine Plan of the Ages," Study IX, "Ransom and Restitution," page 149). "The 'ransom for all' given by 'the man Christ Jesus' does not give or guarantee everlasting life or blessing ... but it does guarantee to every man another opportunity or trial for life everlasting" (page 150). The time for this opportunity is in "the Millennial age" (page 152). "The hope for the world lies in the blessings of knowledge and opportunity to be brought to all by Christ’s Millennial Kingdom" (From "To Us the Scriptures Clearly Teach," carried in every issue of the bi-monthly publication, "The Herald of Christ's Kingdom." )) -- David RiceDavRice (talk) 10:12, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

text: OK, DavRice. As I explained in the edit summary, the groups publication can be a reliable source for the group's own beliefs. I have now added your requestes clarification of the group's beliefs, and the section should be OK now. Thank you, warshy (¥¥) 20:38, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Bible Students sub-section modifications

message: Chiliasm redirects to this article, Millennialism, but Chiliast and Chiliastic redirect to Premillennialism. I don't know enough about the subject to figure out which is right, but I feel like these terms should all redirect to the same place. (Or if there's a good reason why not, this could be explained in a hatnote.) DanFromAnotherPlace (talk) 15:34, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for noting this inconsistency. I changed both redirects, they redirect to this article now. --Rsk6400 (talk) 15:48, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. Sorry to be a pain, I've just noticed that millennialist redirects to Millenarianism, but the lead of that article wikilinks the same word to Millennialism. "Millennialist" should redirect here, no? I'd fix it myself, but I want to be sure I'm not meddling in things I don't understand. DanFromAnotherPlace (talk) 15:58, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Once again, thank you. Even if those links seem like small problems, they can still cause confusion. I corrected Millennialist and also Millenialist. --Rsk6400 (talk) 19:59, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chiliasm redirects 

message: Nazism is also Utopian as perceived by its creators. Conflating social movements into utopianism & nazism is not a definition grounded in truth as defined by the words used here. 
You could say "nazism" and "communism" which would be a more accurate use of words as both items here are 'social movements'. 2620:149:13C0:600:0:0:0:521 (talk) 22:54, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nazism & Utopianism