Talk:Tales of Phantasia/Archive 1

message: The mention of "Tale Phantasia" says it's a novel. I don't suppose there's concrete proof either way, but maybe alongside that comment it should be said that it's likely that it was a preliminary version of the game. I don't really wanna touch much that I only from hearsay, though.
alexpenev 02:47, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's probably taken from the staff roll of the original ToP on SFC which includes the mention of Based on "Tale Phantasia" by Yoshiharu Gotanda, see here. Tale Phantasia was also the initial title of the game until it was changed before the release, see here for an early advertisement. 138.246.7.34 23:55, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Star Ocean also has Based on "Star Ocean" by Yoshiharu Gotanda in its credits. And there is no proof either way that these two games were novels from the credits alone, not to mention the fact that the Japanese wiki for the game makes no mention of it (you'd think that the game being an adaptation of a novel would deserve a mention there).  So I'm removing the said passage unless someone can show some concrete proof.--Darkhunger 12:11, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That whole section (i.e. Developer controversy) is rather poorly written, somebody should rewrite it. -- 82.135.86.137 20:59, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

message: I think the article should be expanded to have more than the main characters, and then be split; a page of all the characters perhaps. Far as I care this article is pretty disorganized. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.237.237.188 (talk) 06:28, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Character articles 

message: DeJap, the original text translation team for the fan translation of Tales Of Phantasia, were outright told not to translate the Gameboy Advance version. This may, in part, be due to the team slightly exaggerating more mature content.
By who?  And when?
http://www.dejap.com/ - do a Control-F for "GBA". --Cidolfas June 20, 2006
Even when localized, Tales Of Phantasia suffered greatly by not getting a larger cartridge, to allow the Flexible Voice Driver to work properly with the new audio mix, with audio cutoffs, fixed width fonts and even the deletion of Yume Wa Owaranai as the game's theme. As a result of all the cuts and space-saving Nintendo did, Many fans, due to this, have said that they'll wait for the Playstation version's remake or completed translation.
How was the deletion of the theme a space-saving measure?  No Tales theme has ever officially appeared outside of Japan.
If we want to keep these, we need sources to back them up. DMAJohnson 19:03, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources? 

message: There already is a "Tales (role-playing game series)" page in Wikipedia, so this section is unnecessary here. --Sobolewski 23:52, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Please Move "Later Games in the Series" section

message: There's way too much text and info on this single page. The Playstation version of Phantasia is a complete remake and derserves its own page, and so does the GBA version. If Playstation ports of Final Fantasy games + Chrono Trigger get a page, then a complete remake sure does.
Also, the introduction at the start is almost as large as the rest of the article.. probably a sign it needs cleaning.
Lastly, like Sobolewski says, there is no need for the "Later Games in the Series" section, because another page covers that. Kawnhr 06:50, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, this page is getting kind of long. Personally, I'm not sure if the ports are so different that they need seperate pages, but if group consensus is that this page needs to be split, then I guess I'd agree. --melodiester 17:08, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, the Playstation version of the game features new sprites, new techs, a slightly editted ending, a new party member, the ability to play as someone other than Cless, a third form of Dhaos and the trademark cooking system. The GBA version didn't change all that much, though it did add some new sidequests.. it would probably have the Localization section due to it being the only version to get localized. Kawnhr 21:36, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Well, I cleaned some of the article up, but it still needs major work. Kawnhr 23:34, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Holy long page, Batman!

message: We should probably choose which names to use sometime, cause the article can't decided. The Japanese/DeJap versions are used in the plot summary, yet the GBA localization's ones are in the characters section.. --Kawnhr 04:17, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Contradiction

message: To handle inconsistencies, why not utilize a "Priority" system that looks at both the translation effort and the popularity of various relevant "Tales" series games? For example, an initial suggestion:
* Arguably the most dedicated translation works to date have been the three "3D" games: Symphonia, Legendia and Abyss.
** Symphonia is the only one of the three within Phantasia's continuity, it had an undeniably more "thorough" translation, and it certainly sold more copies than GBA Phantasia. Thus when conflict arises (ex: Derris-Kharlan in Symphonia is the same place as Derris-Karren in Phantasia), it should be noted that Symphonia version holes a substantial amount more weight.
** Abyss for the most part does not apply, but it should be noted that Phantasia's (arguably) main heroine Mint appears in the traditional "Tales Exhibition Battle", during which she is given the surname "Adnade", not the "Adenade" which appears in ToP GBA.
* Following this, ToP GBA should probably be given priority. It could be argued that as the only English version of the game itself it would necessitate highest priority, but this discussion page alone has highlighted both the poor reasons for doing so (see: Kangaroo. Also not mentioned but relevant: skill names shared for entirely different skills e.g. "Hell Pyre", and desynchronisation between the skill names and effects for the secret "Suzu" character.) and the notable disagreement with what is widely regarded as a poor translation effort.
* Below this should come the similarly-unsuccessful PlayStation titles, Destiny and Eternia. The only relevance these have is in Eternia's "Exhibition Battle", which features Phantasia main characters "Cress" and Arche. During this battle Cress can use his "hi-ougi" (the Tales' series traditional "unbelievably strong" attacks), which Eternia calls "Albain Finality - Final Justice". (06:16 to 06:21 in linked video), thus Eternia (official English translation) actually translates his surname "Albain", not the "Albane" of the English GBA translation.
* Finally, the DeJap fan-translation of the SNES version of the game should be given absolutely no weight, as it is just that - a fan translation.
As far as I can see, this article is about Tales of Phantasia as a whole, not just the English adaptation of possibly the least-acclaimed version of the four ToP incarnations. For the purposes of a stand-alone Wikipedia article about an unlinked game, clearly the most consistent option would be to take everything from the Nintendo America GBA translation and ignore all DeJap differences.
But that's not all there is to it. Tales of Phantasia is part of a collection of "Tales of" series games and is directly related to particular games within this series that have both received more cared-for translation efforts* and brought in larger sales numbers.
:*Abyss goes as far as to retain the skill names of Eternia character Reid Hershel in the Exhibition battle featuring ToP's Mint even though they are the same skills found in Symphonia/Phantasia/Abyss given horribly inconsistent names, and it still refuses to acknowledge "Adenade" - English GBA - as Mint's surname in English.
Given all of the above, suggestions for this wiki article would be to either:
# Detail the article in the context of the English GBA version first and then explain all of the mistranslations, differences and inconsistencies with the rest of the Tales universe afterwards, or:
# Treat the article as though Tales of Phantasia is part of the Tales universe (particularly Symphonia) and make note of what will be different on the actual English-version GBA cart. - 86.27.139.128 09:55, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Priority System? 

message: Why not use the orginal SNES box art instead of the GBA art? After all, it was orginally released on SNES. Plus the GBA box says "only for" GBA which is misleading as well. --72.66.210.145 20:51, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Since the game never came out in the United States, it's best to use the GBA box art. The "Only for" isn't misleading at all. --Snkcube 08:11, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Why is this best?  The original Box Art (US or not doesn't matter) should go in the info box because historically it came first.  PSX, or GBA box art can be included later in the article if there is a section that discusses the game's re-release. Hewinsj 16:48, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's best because it's the only English language official box art available, which fits with the standard procedure for posting box art images in infoboxes. Tales of Phantasia is no exception, nor should it be.--Hailinel 02:34, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm trying to find the discussion on info boxes where this is agreed on.  The closest thing I can find is the statement that the image will be hosted "on the English-language Wikipedia, hosted on servers in the United States by the non-profit Wikimedia Foundation" under cover art info.  If you can find this and post a link I'd appreciate it.  Hewinsj 03:17, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Box art 

message: In the Super Famicom version, Dhaos's corpse as well as Martel herself both become part of the seed, but in the remakes, Martel sends the Mana into space including only Dhaos.
How is anyone so sure of this?  I'm sure it's just a difference in translations. Benpc91 02:09, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mana Seed 

message: OK, we have to put some priority on the names... I know most hardcore fans will not want us to use the GBA names as the highest priority, but they are the OFFICIAL ones, and deserve due respect, I want your approval before Channing them priority wise. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Djtjj (talk • contribs) 22:06, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, his name in Japan is "Satoshi", America chose the name Ash, and if they chose "Mash", then that would be what they'd call him --FlareNUKE 05:34, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  NAMES NAMES NAMES!