Talk:James Kim/Archive 1

message: Being a tech writer, I thought he would have had a GPS. 
Also, their car, the SAAB 9-2X is a All-Wheel drive car - unless the snow was very very deep it shouldn't have gotten stuck? I wonder if they had snow tires on... If the snow was that deep, I wonder why they continued to drive...
In anycase, very sad.
Coolspot 06:05, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  GPS and Snow Tires 

message: His wife and daughter were found! but alas :(  no JAmes Kim yet.... hope he is ok  BrianEd 00:02, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  YES!!!! 

message: Should be mentioned. --72.136.188.23 23:40, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trackers Find James Kim's Pants 

message: I think the response from the CNET and tech community in general has been awesome-- people giving their prayers and offering tips its just great! Thank you. I remember the day I saw the article I went onto Wikipedia and thought about making his article, but "saved if for later" :-)
Thank god his family was found, and i have a gut feeling tonight may be a lucky one. 
Thanks,
--Alegoo92 03:15, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thank you tech community 

message: Heres the source: http://news.com.com/1606-2_3-6140705.html?tag=cnetfd.mt
--James Bond 06:30, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The line in the article "they kept the car engine running day and night to keep warm" suggests to me that they ran the engine constantly until it ran out of gas. In the video you linked, Sheriff Anderson says they were running the engine "during the day and at night." I don't interpret this to mean that they kept it running continuously, and my personal experience in these mountains tells me its not that cold up there. Headwes 06:43, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wire stories are saying it was run only at night. Fixed. --Dhartung | Talk 07:10, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The wire services are reporting different versions of certain events. For example, I keep reading that they were airlifted to the hospital, yet the sheriff states that they arrived by AMR ambulance. Do we have any reason to believe the wire services are better sources than the sheriff's department? Headwes 07:19, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If it's that important to you, cite the claim to the Sheriff. Is this what we should be spending our time on? --Dhartung | Talk 07:23, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was the one who posted the dubious tag to start with. I did so because the article suggested they ran the engine constantly, which is almost certainly false. If not, it would be quite a huge error in judgement on the part of the Kims. You're right that whether they ran it during the day and night, or just at night, really doesn't matter--but, if we're going to mention that they ran it during a specific time, we might as well get it right. Headwes 07:28, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Oregon is hardly famous for its cold--especially not that area. Its near the coast, right near the southern border with California, and the elevations are typically under 4000 feet. My point was that it wouldn't be so cold that they would need to run the car continuously to stay warm, as the article previously implied. In Portland, I'm Headwes 06:51, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regarding the dubious tag added 

message: It's pretty irritating how breaking news stories always have discrepancies between sources. I understand that's largely because there is a chain of people relaying information, so quality is bound to degrade, and also things are not always as the first responders perceive it. But too much of it is simply carelessness in people's listening and speaking/writing. 
Does it matter whether they ran the engine "day and night" or "during the day and during the night," or whether he agreed to -turn back- at 1:00pm or -be back- at 1:00pm? Yes, it does matter. Because all those details add up to create very different pictures of the situation and of the mindset/actions of the people invloved. Evaluations and conclusions will be made based on those reported details. The people invloved will be judged differently based on those details. Tragic romance 16:27, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Conflicting news stories

message: Someone added this unencyclopedic sentence:
"Previously, few people ever heard of him, until he and his wife made a really stupid decision to drive a backcountry road in the wilderness in winter."
I am removing it. 72.43.143.117 17:43, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: it true, tho.  look at silenced digg comments in dugg stories.  ton of people not know james kim.  o-so democratic digg try -2- hide this, but u can still click post. 72.36.251.234 20:00, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, James Kim is currently missing, but the words "stupid" and "backcountry" are not encyclopedic. 72.43.143.117 20:07, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Anyone who has ever visited CNet more than a couple times knows will know who he is, by face if not by name. And anyway, here are a lot of notable individuals who are unknown to most people.  -- Tim D 22:36, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: According to www.kgw.com the guys body has been found. Sle 22:40, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  DEAD 

message: Please note: This is not a formal discussion for deleting or keeping the article. See Articles for Deletion. You do not need to vote.  
I am creating a different section in order to separate my comment from the disorganization above. If someone cleans it up, feel free to move my comment into the previous section.
He was marginally notable before this incident, but now he is known the world over. Whether this is short-term notability is an issue for later. He has worldwide notability right now, and therefore there should be an article about him, in my understanding of Wikipedia policy.
Also, I agree that the grammar and tone of the above comments are unacceptable. Tragic romance 01:45, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is world-wide news. The story is very unusual. The article is very good. --JJay 02:41, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vote for keep 

message: Regarding the edits from IP 72.36.251.234: I'm embarrassed even to have my sentences in the same section.
"mayb that 2 complex 4 u. neway, cnet notable and so is james kim"
I realize this is a Talk page, not an article, so informality is fine. But that kind of writing is starkly out of sync with the spirit of Wikipedia. Not only is it in extreme disregard and disdain for the English language, it is also deliberately ungrammatical and confrontational. 
In one section alone (above), this user threatens to "make a point" ["know wut? im gonna go mak article on Barry Bond's knee"],
and also personally attacks someone ["yes, mstroeck, ur stupid"].
Tragic romance 04:28, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That kind of writing should be considered vandalism and dealt with accordingly. No need to suffer fools here. —QuicksilverT @ 19:08, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Troublemaker on the page? 

message: I noticed that someone added this to the article with the following reference.
"Searchers were able to come in direct contact with James Kim on December 5th, 2006. However, rescue workers were unable to lower a medic to James Kim's location. Rescuers frantically attempted to devise a method for rescuing Kim, but did not reach him in time."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16079394/
The MSNBC article does indeed state that...
"Searchers told NBC News that they located Kim on Tuesday and at one point they were able to make direct contact with him. They explored ways to lower a medic to the area, they said, but it was not immediately clear whether that attempt ultimately failed or was too late to save Kim.
Rescuers frantically tried to work out ways to reach Kim in the impassable snow-jammed area over the next hours, Anderson said, but they couldn’t make it in time."
However, I think that this could be dubious rumor-reporting on MSNBC's part, which is not uncommon in the aftermath of an event like this.
What makes me skeptical of the report is the fact that Anderson indicated that James Kim had not been found at Tuesday's press conferences, and also indicated the following morning, on Wednesday, that his whereabouts were still unknown, and that care packages would be dropped at several locations in the hopes that he might find them. It wasn't until around 3pm Wednesday that it was reported an unidentified body was found lying face down in the ground.
If Kim had been found Tuesday, and furthermore, if contact had been made with him, and a "frantic" effort made to rescue him, why didn't Anderson mention any of this at Wednesay morning's press conference? Surely he would have known about such an event.
Most of all, this contradicts the paragraph DIRECTLY ABOVE IT, in which search and rescue officials went over the results of search efforts the previous day, tuesday, finding items of his clothing, but not Mr. Kim himself. 
This event hasn't been reported by ANY other news source, including television and print sources, and the MSNBC article is an early one. I'm not so sure this should be in the Wikipedia article stated as fact when it's not been verified by any other source that I know of. 
If nobody has any objections, I'm going to add "According to an MSNBC article" to that bit of information. Blacksun1942 06:25, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've answered this elsewhere, but it's my opinion that "direct contact" is search-and-rescue jargon indicating they located his body but were unable to determine his status. They don't say they communicated, and would have if they did, e.g. "he waved at rescuers" or some such. Most of the reports were much more circumspect, saying they were going to invesigate "another item" related to Kim. They were careful because they did not know if he were alive or dead until reaching him. --Dhartung | Talk 06:46, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rescuers were in direct contact with Kim on Tuesday??? 

message: Is here. Looks like he would have been ok if he stayed on the yellow route. 128.138.207.44 08:03, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The pilot who found the Kims noted that it was quite common for visitors to bear right instead left by mistake. :-( —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 192.45.72.26 (talk) 19:57, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Bear Camp Road

message: I would recommend changing cite 5 from the article currently reference to this one: http://wjz.com/topstories/topstories_story_340152429.html
as unlike the current citation, this article actually gives the names of the people who saved the lives of Kati and her children. It's debatable whether they should be named in the article here or not, but I think it's pretty unquestionable that the citation for the line mentioning them should link to an article that actually gives their names. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.33.18.2 (talk) 18:34, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Eric Fuqua and Noah Pugsley

message: I removed the map comparisons as edited in by Yeahsoo.  The tone was informal, the text contained several grammatical errors, and I didn't see how dissecting the route was relevant to James Kim himself.  If anyone has objections, please post them here.  Cue the Strings 00:48, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yahoo! Maps reference 

message: I'm just about positive this quote is inaccurate:  "They [James and Kati] thought the Hanna police was just about four miles away, when in reality, it was probably more like 15 miles away..James thought he could reach it in a couple of hours ... he was trying to get to a road, to flag down some help." [7] 
I'm pretty sure they said "the town of Galice" rather than the "hanna police".  The fox article does say hanna police, but I think it's wrong. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.168.41.105 (talk) 18:45, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I noticed this earlier as well, and I believe you are right.  I'm a local to the area and that's the only thing that really makes sense...  Might be best if we can find an accurate quote from a different source. --Kameron 08:16, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hanna Police