Talk:Joachim Murat

message: A nice article, lengthy, detailed, with pictures, and at least one reference cited. On the intro, however, while I'm sure that being Grand Duke of Cleves and Berg, Marshal of France, and King of Naples is quite significant and important, I wonder if there's any other reason Murat might be significant or notable. In my opinion, intros should be at least two sentences long, and should summarize the significant elements of the entire subject. Still, overall, very good work. LordAmeth 23:57, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: WP:MILHIST Assessment

message: In Scandinavian history, Sweden has actually been ruled by a King that was a constant insomniac, never said anything in Scandinavian and so on. That person had a tattoo that read "death to all kings", given the fact that Karl Johan was a Jacobine. Murat was given the position as King of the Naples, but also he was described as a (quite ardent) republican. Was he more on it than (the man later known as) Karl Johan? --88.89.69.14 (talk) 00:49, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Was he that much on it? 

message: In David Chandler's "Napoleon's Marshalls" (London 1987 and reprinted since) Tom Pickles wrote the article on Murat.  He gives various references in his biographical note, which Murataphiles may wish to follow up.  Pickles gives the source for the 'last words' quote as 'My Memoirs' by Princess Caroline Murat (Murat's grandaughter), published London 1910.  The book is available to read on Googlebooks.  Having read the page in question, and the other online sources (not the Dumas) mentioned above I personaly doubt Murat actually said this.  Ney also gave the commands to his firing squad, so I suspect Muart's last word was "Fire" (in French!).  But the quote is pure Murat and at least we have a source for it so it should stay.  Andrewshobley (talk) 15:53, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source for Murat's last words =

message: Why does JOACHIM Murat have such a typical German first name? Does anyone know? --91.66.11.255 (talk) 03:05, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Well this is why his origins as an Armenian may become even more obvious. His original name was Hovakim Muradian. Since Armenian is an Indo-European language just like German, the names may sound familiar. Proudbolsahye (talk) 03:21, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  German name 

message: The name Joachim (discussed in the section above) is biblical and Hebrew in origin. It was, according to an apocryphic tradition, the name of the father of Mary, mother of Jesus. It is hardly surprising that it occurs in various Christian countries and is in itself no argument for an Armenian origin. (Or was Gioachino Rossini perhaps also an Armenian whose real name was Hovakim Rossinian? This line of "research" opens all kinds of possibilities...) 
I doubt Murat would have had any reason to hide an Armenian background had he had one, but unless everything else said about his family in this article is invented out of thin air, it would appear that his French family background is pretty well-documented. The notion that he was of Armenian origin (inserted here) seems like a fringe nationalist claim and probably shouldn't be the first thing mentioned in the "Early life" section, even with the caveat that follows ("However, it is generally believed that ..."). One could possibly mention the Armenian claim if the whole thing is put in a footnote. Otherwise it really needs to go. --Hegvald (talk) 09:59, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I totally agree with Hegvald. Joachim is a quite common first name in France and Murat's Armenian origin is a dubious fringe theory WP:FRINGE which is probably not worth mentionning.Blaue Max (talk) 11:23, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

text: Strangely there seem to be very few recent sources on Murat readily available. There are a lot of old publications in English and French, some dating back to his lifetime. All say essentially the same thing, that he was the son of an innkeeper ("'aubergiste") in La Bastide-Fortumière.  That's also what the Britannica and other reference works say. The village preserves the Murat Birthplace (Maison natale) and has a Murat museum. . It's even renamed itself Labastide-Murat. I have not found a single reference to the Armenian claim that's not just web-gossip or from specifically Armenian publications the authors of which have no claim to expertise on Murat. Paul B (talk) 14:36, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Claim of Armenian origin

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The section on the Egyptian Expedition is wrong. Napoleon did invade Palestine but was there defeated (see Siege of Acre 1799). He then abandoned his expeditionary force and returned to France by sea, avoiding the British navy. The remaining forces were left under the command of Jean Baptiste Kléber, who negotiated with the British, was then betrayed, and was eventually assassinated after defeating a much larger Turkish force that had been sent to retake Egypt. (see Battle of Heliopolis 1800). Intriguingly, Kléber's successor Jacques Francois de Menou converted to Islam and took the name Abdullah. But this really has nothing to do with Murat, I expect he fled with Napoleon at some point in late 1799. 
Sorry if this is the wrong place to put this, but I have never edited anything on Wikipedia before. Still, what the article says is patently false, the Egyptian Expeditionary Forces did not return to Europe led by Napoleon via Turkey. Most of the troops died, the remainder were ultimately evacuated by the British Navy in 1802 following their surrender. 
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_campaign_in_Egypt_and_Syria as well. 
Any ideas? 
Tjolls12 (talk) 07:25, 13 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: All right, I shouldn't but I fix it. Appah Rao (talk) 18:27, 13 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flight from Egypt 

message: This is given as his nickname in several sources. It has become a literary reference ( Walter Scott, name of the sequel to ‘Beau Geste’ and so on. Worth a mention? 213.205.240.182 (talk) 18:37, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Beau Sabreur 

message: I was wondering if I should add information on his affiliation, and leadership position within French and Italian freemasonry? I think it would be an important addition to the article because he established the Grand Orient of Naples, of which he served as Grand Master (1808), and he served as Senior Grand Warden of the Grand Orient of France (1803). Pepe Oats (talk) 05:36, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed, Murat’s powerful leadership positions within French and Italian Freemsonry should be (at least) byworded. But it hasn’t. Sigh. 2A00:23C7:2B13:9001:3572:1C2D:FEFA:8068 (talk) 17:27, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Freemasonry 

message: This should be at least stated . He founded a large multi territory fund called a few different things over time , probably to do with legalities . He is paraphrased and apocryphally associated with a security firm as well. This should be noted, the fact that the resources aren’t available to the public at large should not prevent it from being illustrated. 2600:6C52:7A00:8EA:11B7:FF59:B3D5:C432 (talk) 17:59, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Relevance to economics 

message: Murat was responsible for the execution of thousands of civilians, among other various war crimes. Other wikis acknowledge and mention this fact, but why not the English wiki? Marneus (talk) 02:38, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Murat's war crimes