Talk:Diocletian

message: www.stnicholascenter.org/how-to-celebrate/resources/liturgical/sermons/orthodox/saint-nicholas-reflection  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.190.228.0 (talk) 22:53, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it is encyclopedic. It's what modern scholarly sources say. Neither the date nor the cause of his death are known for certain. DrKay (talk) 15:37, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, DrKay, it's what a few historians have speculated.  There's no hard proof whatsoever that Diocletian committed suicide, and although papers/books may be published, getting the mainstream of university professors to accept this premise is another matter - our staff certainly hasn't, while finding the concept interesting; I doubt you will find this being taught at any major school as fact at this time. It is at university roundtables where mainstream historical thought is developed - where scholarly writings are discussed and balanced with opposing/alternate views.  I'm uncomfortable about the way the paragraph ends with the impression that this is how he died - I strongly suggest a more mainstream group of sources also be used.HammerFilmFan (talk) 15:17, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  ponyo, explain yourself, here is proof diocletian committed suicide, also explain yourself what does may be mean, is that encyclopedic? duh!!! 

message: Marking here that I will be re-writing this article in my userspace to align it with featured article standards. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 05:25, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Not particularly, no. I rewrote Basiliscus and the size nearly doubled. I just think the rewrite would actually be easy for me than double-checking every single cite to ensure it actually is there, and all the other issues that happen when it festers for some time. My main concerns are just the uncited bits and the mix of refs/primary sources. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 18:55, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intention to re-write 

message: Family tree entry for Constans is mislinked. Should be: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constans 47.205.124.128 (talk) 18:30, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mislink 

message: In his military reforms section, it is stated that Lactantius criticized Diocletian for the troop increases. Treadgold also maintains that a large increase in the number of soldiers occurred in Diocletian’s reign. However, in the Wikipedia page about the late Roman    Army, a relatively thorough analysis concludes that Treadgold is most likely incorrect in his observation between statements made by John of Lydus (who concluded about 400k effectives) and Zosimus (who concluded 581k). The Wiki page states the following (significantly paraphrased by me):
 [Treadgold argues that John was stating the start of Diocletian’s reign, while Zosimus stated the end. However, Treadgold also concludes that the army size remained constant throughout the Crisis, which is absurd. Furthermore, Zosimus has been pegged as unreliable, given he stated 60,000 Alemmani deaths at Strasbourg in 357, while Ammanius stated 6,000-8,000. Finally, It would be strange for John to give out the number of men at the beginning of Diocletian’s reign, when he could easily give out the peak number of effectives. Finally, Agathias and Zosimus may have given out the official number of men, rather than the actual, as units may have been significantly damaged from the crisis and other wars.]
I simply want Diocletian’s page to be revised in order to reflect this analysis, given that Treadgold is most likely incorrect. However, am I still unsure if this is truly the right point of view, and if a true expert can patch me up, that would be great. Thank you! Aurelianberries (talk) 05:24, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Troop numbers 

message: Removed from the article because they are generating Harvref errors: SandyGeorgia (Talk)  18:43, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unused sources 

message: Religion: He persecuted Christians, crucifying more than any other emperor. Around 304, he imposed very cruel death penalty on Saint Wit, a boy of 12 who refused to convert to roman pagan religion. He imposed the traditional polytheistic religion of the Romans. After abdicating, he committed suicide on December 3 311! 190.224.136.54 (talk) 04:19, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: None of this can be used here without citations of sources that support it. General Ization Talk   04:22, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: info above is well known, problem with wikipedia fake encyclopedia is that is always contradicts itself: you need source even for logical point that oxygen is required for breathing, cellular respiration!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.178.67.172 (talk) 04:28, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Well known to whom? Apparently not to the many sources already cited in this article. And no, we don't need a citation to prove that the sky is blue, but we definitely do for the claims you've made above. See WP:BURDEN. If that's too much trouble, then move along please. General Ization Talk   04:30, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

text: well known to all, but, it goes to show how wikistupid you are like all one sided wmf administrators are... 1. on talk pages i dont need to source anythining, just point out whats wrong or what to correct and no, sky is not always blue, especially when rains, so again you are proven wrong as wikihypocrite and self contradictor and these wiki/wmf articles had all sorts of sources but they were wrong, i rest my case, DOH/DUH: — Preceding unsigned comment added by 177.200.51.55 (talk) 04:40, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: You need to provide sources for anything you expect others to add to the article, and the improvement of the article is the only reason you should post this (or any) information on this Talk page.  Consequently, I have removed the link to an NBC News article that has absolutely nothing to do with Diocletian or the improvement of this article. And if you direct personal attacks and insults toward me or any other editor here again, you will be blocked. General Ization Talk   04:46, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

text: Semiprotected to reduce the personal attacks. Apologies to any IP editors with genuine contributions to make, please hold onto them until the semi protection expires. -- Euryalus (talk) 11:01, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Saint Wit's Martyrdom and Diocletian's Suicide! 

message: Two IP editors have now changed the discussion of Diocletian's death from saying that "some" suggest that he committed suicide to that "[the] majority of historians" say this.  The source cited does not support this claim, but the most recent editor introducing this claim says in their summary to this edit that "many other sources outside of wiki say so!"  It is possibly true that this is the majority opinion – Brill's New Pauly says that he killed himself, though the Oxford Classical Dictionary merely says that he died – but we can't say so based on a forty-year-old source which says nothing of the sort!  So: is this the majority opinion?  What are the sources? Caeciliusinhorto-public (talk) 14:26, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: It should be noted that the edit you mention was the first and only edit by that IP.  I strongly suspect (but cannot prove) that that IP was the same person who used multiple IPs to make this and other assertions concerning Diocletian in the section directly above this one, but pointedly refuses to provide any sources to support the contention. General Ization Talk   14:38, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Does this supposed suicide even belong in this article at all? I don't doubt that "some" people have suggested it, but it sounds like speculation without evidence, which doesn't belong in an encyclopaedia. It is also difficult to reconcile this with the account given in the preceding paragraph about him being happy in his retirement. Richard75 (talk) 11:42, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Suicide

message: I saw in the article, I don't understand the symbols, but if they are not referring to dee-ock-lay-tee-an, it's wrong.
Middle More Rider (talk) 23:26, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronounciation