Talk:Grand Slam (professional wrestling)/Archive 1

message: I may be wrong, but don't Kurt Angle and Eddie Guerrero belong on this list
Angle: WWE Champion, World Champion, WWE Tag Team Champion (Note: 1), Intercontinential Champion, European Champion
Guerrero: WWE Champion, WWE Tag Team Champion (Note: 1), Intercontinential Champion, European Champion
===Notes===
(1) Grandslam "Requires" World Tag Team Championship, but with the introduction of the World Title, it is eligable for a grandslam, so wouldent the WWE tag team titles qualify also, making Eddie Guerrero and Kurt Angle both grandslam winners.
:WWE have never stipulated whether or not the WWE Tag Team Championship is an acceptable substitute for the World Tag Team Championship. It seems as though it would, but this is a clear case of original research. WWE.com identifies Triple H and Shawn Michaels as Grand Slam Champions, and Chris Jericho identifies himself as a Grand Slam Champion on his website. However, no such claims are made about or by Angle or Guerrero. McPhail 17:21, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This needs a source. McPhail 15:33, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

text: OK, that's great, thanks. McPhail 22:18, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

text: The scope of this article is limited to officially recognised "Grand Slam" accomplishments. I don't believe WCW, ECW and TNA have ever formally recognised such an accolade. McPhail 23:13, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

text: The reason that the article only mentions WWE Grand Slam winners is that WWE is the only wrestling company to formally recognise a "Grand Slam". 17:25, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

text: He hasn't won the WWF/E Intercontinental Championship. WWE have never stated that the US Championship is a suitable alternative. McPhail 21:34, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

text: According to WWE.com, it does: "Michaels was the first-ever Grand Slam Champion, capturing the European Championship once, the World Tag Team Championship three times, the Intercontinental Championship three times and the WWE and World Heavyweight Championships a total of four times". However, Benoit was never European Champion. McPhail 19:07, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Grand Slam Champion Qualifications

message: (1) Grandslam "Requires" World Tag Team Championship, but with the introduction of the World Title, it is eligable for a grandslam, so wouldent the WWE tag team titles qualify also, making Eddie Guerrero and Kurt Angle both grandslam winners.
:WWE have never stipulated whether or not the WWE Tag Team Championship is an acceptable substitute for the World Tag Team Championship. It seems as though it would, but this is a clear case of original research. WWE.com identifies Triple H and Shawn Michaels as Grand Slam Champions, and Chris Jericho identifies himself as a Grand Slam Champion on his website. However, no such claims are made about or by Angle or Guerrero. McPhail 17:21, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This needs a source. McPhail 15:33, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

text: OK, that's great, thanks. McPhail 22:18, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

text: The scope of this article is limited to officially recognised "Grand Slam" accomplishments. I don't believe WCW, ECW and TNA have ever formally recognised such an accolade. McPhail 23:13, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

text: The reason that the article only mentions WWE Grand Slam winners is that WWE is the only wrestling company to formally recognise a "Grand Slam". 17:25, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Notes

message: Is JBL now a Grand Slam Champion?
:He hasn't won the WWF/E Intercontinental Championship. WWE have never stated that the US Championship is a suitable alternative. McPhail 21:34, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: John Bradshaw Layfield

message: Chris Benoit won the World Championship along with the Intercontinental, European, and Tag Team Championship. Does the World Championship count?
:According to WWE.com, it does: "Michaels was the first-ever Grand Slam Champion, capturing the European Championship once, the World Tag Team Championship three times, the Intercontinental Championship three times and the WWE and World Heavyweight Championships a total of four times". However, Benoit was never European Champion. McPhail 19:07, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Chris Benoit

message: Shouldn't the WWE United States Championship qualify as a substitute for the WWE Intercontinental Championship, or at least the WWE European Championship being as there would no way be anymore Grand Slam Champions. Mannytime 22:47, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As discussed above, only titles that WWE have stated are part of the Grand Slam are included. There are references in the article for the World Heavyweight Championship and WWE Tag Team Championship being part of the Grand Slam, but no-one has yet produced a source for the United States Championship being part of the Grand Slam. We need sources, not logic, due to Wikipedia's no original research policy. McPhail 23:01, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  United States Championship 

message: I added that in and then, in a step I probably should have taken beforehand, noticed that it's already been reverted out, so I self-reverted. But why not put it in? If any of this is useful information, it's noteworthy who is one belt shy. Tromboneguy0186 11:33, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They were Grand Slam Champions before winning the WHC. No-one has completed the Grand Slam by winning the WHC instead of the WWE Championship. McPhail 16:06, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why the nix on potential future champions? 

message: Edge has won the Intercontinental, Tag Team, and WWE Heavyweight Championship, along with the US Championship during the Invasion angle of 2001,  because of this I think he should be considered a Grand Slam Champion, the US Championship is more than equivalent to the European Championship.
    
:Edge's U.S. title was still recognised as a WCW title at the time, so it wouldn't have counted anyway.
Besides, The U.S. title is the equivalent of the I-C title.  So in order to win a Grand Slam, you have to win either the U.S. or I-C titles, along with the now defunct European title (with of course a WWE/World title and a tag title).
The US title on Smackdown shares the lineage of the WCW version of the title. It’s history in the WWE website includes the WCW part. So why wouldn’t Edge’s US Title history count?? I understand the logic in why it wouldn’t, but on a technicality, it should.--Prince Patrick 19:04, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edge 

message: Shouldn't his reign be listed as the Undisputed Title, since when he won it that's what it was known as?
:He won the World Championship and WWF Championship in one night, thus becoming Undisputed Champion. McPhail 23:33, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chris Jericho 

message: On a recent episode of Friday Night Smackdown, John "Bradshaw" Layfield (while in the midst of bickering with broadcast partner Michael Cole) compared himself to golfer Tiger Woods. JBL said that just as Woods won golf's Grand Slam, he (JBL) had won "wrestling's Grand Slam". This would appear to show that JBL (and presumably WWE) considers the WWE United States Championship to be an acceptable substitute for the Intercontinental Championship. Thus far, JBL is the only wrestler that has completed the Grand Salm under this revised definition. 
This is not the most elegant wording and it lacks a citation. Is this good enough to add JBL to the list? Tromboneguy0186 07:33, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  JBL 

message: JBL made these comments during the recent Undertaker vs King Booker match.
JBL was talking about how great Booker was, and Michael Cole told him that he was just sucking up to the champ.
JBL then told Cole that just as Tiger Woods was a Grand Slam champion in golf, he (JBL) was a Grand Slam champion in wrestling, so he knew greatness when he saw it, and continued to sing Booker's praises. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vlh (talk • contribs) 
*When JBL first won the U.S. Title, he should have been added to the Grand Slam list right then and there.  
    
*Every bit of logic, common sense, and just knowing wrestling says that I-C = U.S.
    
*But, we were told to wait for WWE to explicitly say JBL was a Slam winner.  Fair enough.
*So, on August 4, 2006, The words "Just like Tiger Woods is a Grand Slam winner in golf, I am a Grand Slam winner in wrestling." came out of JBL's mouth.  The man said on national TV he was a Slam winner, and that is still not good enough for some people?
*What else do you need?  Maybe if they did like DX and spray paint it on the side of WWE HQ, would that convince you? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.12.116.71 (talk • contribs) 
: What else do you need? A citation from WWE like the ones for Angle and Michaels, not a comment made in passing by Layfield himself. Tromboneguy0186 03:47, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Devil's advocate speak now: JBL's statement can be thought of being within the context of kayfabe, so within kayfabe he is a self-proclaimed Grand Slam Champion.  As no other kayfabe-independent source can verify JBL's claim, then we cannot claim that here either.  So if, say, Jim Ross could verify JBL's claim on Raw, and Ross is not involved in a storyline with JBL at the time, we can claim that the US title counts for the Grand Slam here.  If wwe.com says something about JBL being a Grand Slam Champion that's out of kayfabe, we can say that the US title counts for the Grand Slam here.  Heck, some may say that if JBL himself writes in his out-of-kayfabe business column that he is a GSC, then we can say that here.  We can even say that if PWI considers the US title as an IC-substitute we can add JBL onto the list.  kelvSYC 01:30, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The fact is, you can't insert original research into Wikipedia. Nobody except JBL comparing himself to Tiger Woods recently winning a Grand Slam isn't enough of a source. If wwe.com or another verifiable external website says it, then thats enough, but there isn't except blogs and users on Wikipedia claimng this. semper fi — Moe 15:50, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Yes, Guerrero, RVD, HBK and HHH have all the IC championship, and JBL hasn't. If anything, that whole "I won the grand slam championship of professional wrestling" was a coincidence as he was comparing himself to Tiger Woods (after he won his Grand Slam), which happened at the same time. I would like to include it based on this fact, but it's strickly against the policies WP:V and WP:OR. If you could provide a source that the United States CHampionship is interchangable with the IC Championship other than JBL implying it, I will readd it myself. semper fi — Moe 20:54, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Enough trolling from you. Unless you provide a source, it won't be added, end of story. semper fi — Moe 17:30, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  JBL's comments 

message: The WCW section is all original research. I put the OR tag there, and will delete the section in a few days unless someone can find a relaible source where WCW (or WWE) stated that there was a WCW Grand Slam Championship. TJ Spyke 21:37, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: WCW

message: There has been a lot of talk about if the US Championship was valid to be considered as a substitute of the I-C Championship. There was a valid support of the World Heavyweight Championship as a substitute. There was a valid support of the WWE Tag Team Championship as a substitute. But, just because Layfield says "I'm a Grand Slam Champion" was a valid criteria? This could be an interpretation made by himself (not scripted by WWE) and also, there wasn't been to this day an announcement by the WWE (like Shawn Michaels and Kurt Angle) supporting Layfield as a Grand Slam Champion. Obviously, Eddie Guerrero, Triple H, Rob Van Dam and Chris Jericho wasn't explicitly recognize as Grand Slam Champions, but they were consider to have this honor because they fulfilled the requirements. That's why I protected at all this page. I invited to all the people affiliated to the WikiProject: Professional Wrestling, and also to all the editors of Wikipedia who got a interest in this issue. That's all for now. Xbox6 18:36, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  US Championship issue 

message: This page has been putting on protection, at least until there was a pronunciation by the administrators. Please put your opinions about the issue that has been treated (US Championship issue). Xbox6 21:33, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Considering it's been settled that the US Title is part of the criteria for being a Triple Crown Champion, and a Grand Slam Champion is effectively someone who's a Triple Crown Champion plus a former European Champion, it makes sense to me to include the US title. I hope the debate over this doesn't reach the levels of the debate over the US title for the Triple Crown, but I would strongly urge people to allow the US Title as criteria for Grand Slam status. It could be the US title will never be used, in which case there's no issue, but we should allow for the possibility. Anakinjmt 03:06, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protection 

message: I have put JBL back on the Grand Slam list.
Before you rush to block me again for vandalism or whatever, let's put this to bed once and for all.
Let's put this to a vote beginning today and ending next Wednesday.
It will be a yea or nay vote.
If the vote is nay, I'll remove JBL myself and forever hold my peace.  
If it's a yea vote, then he stays.
Vlh 21:40,  27 December 2006  (UTC)
:There is no voting on the matter, this is a policy which can not be overridden with a vote. semper fi — Moe 04:49, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nothing on Wikipedia is decided by a vote, and policies in particular can not be overridden. The policy called No original research makes it absolutely clear that this information can not be included. | Mr. Darcy talk 16:34, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Let's end this