Talk:Alea iacta est

message: This page was recently moved from Alea iacta est, and although the current title is the correct quote, I think it should be moved back, because it is far more commonly seen as Alea jacta est or Alea iacta est in current usage:
Google:
 alea jacta est: 297,000
 alea iacta est: 210,000
 iacta alea est: 15,700
 jacta alea est: 938
I'm plumping for "iacta" rather than "jacta" because it is more accurate latin; because that's what the page was called before; and because it appears on google almost as often as "jacta".  It is also worth noting that it appears as alea iacta/jacta est on all the other language wikis except da, where it is yet another permutation - "jacta est alea". FiggyBee 05:47, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I moved it originally only because "Iacta alea est" is how Suetonius ordered it. Now, I'm not sure if there are variations in the manuscripts, other accounts, or whatever that have another order, but if there are not ancient variations, I'm not sure why another order is more common today. Of course, it doesn't really change the sense of the sentence to reorder it (though there is a change in emphasis), and the page should probably be called whatever is in most common usage (including the j) with redirects for the variations (cf. WP:NC(CN)). --Flex (talk|contribs) 14:02, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you are citing the Latin Library, it has no critical notes. The Perseus text, which appears to be the 1908 Teubner, has the same order in Section 32, a disagreement on punctuation. I agree that we should use the more common and explain that many editions of Suetonius (or Suetonius himself) vary. Septentrionalis 23:31, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

text: "If the phrase is Iacta alea est" is exactly the issue.  Both word orders work fine in latin and mean the same thing (with a slightly stronger emphasis on cast in the original - "Cast the die is"), and for whatever reason alea iacta est is how the phrase is more commonly used today.  What [phrase] would the average user of the Wikipedia put into the search engine? FiggyBee 07:45, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

text: But 99% of users searching for this phrase will not have found it in Suetonius, and, for whatever reason, the googlefight shows that AIE is the much more common usage than IAE. FiggyBee 13:18, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 

message: The english translation contains two ambiguous words: 'die' could be one of two dice or a metal stamp. 'cast' could mean thrown or formed out of molten metal. I'm assuming the original latin doesn't have that ambiguity, but I unfortunately don't know latin to choose which.--Spyforthemoon 16:00, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The first is right in both cases; the translation is traditional and should be left alone, even if explained. Septentrionalis 18:46, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Also, just to make it quite clear, there is no ambiguity in the latin. alea can only mean a die as in dice, and iacio (which comes down to us in english as eject) can only mean cast as in "throw".  "The die (which you strike coins with) has been cast (out of metal)" in latin would be something like moneta fusa est. FiggyBee 05:14, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Actually in latin there is no singular word for "dice". Alea is a plurale tantum. Therefore "The dice are cast" would also be a viable translation. --Mirage GSM 07:41, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Are you sure?  My dictionary reckons it's 1F, and "iacta est" is a singular participle.  It's certainly the case that the Romans used "alea" to mean "a game of dice" as well as "a die", so the plural makes sense in a figurative translation.  But you need to have the singular if you want a literal translation. FiggyBee 09:37, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

text:  Mirage, see this article: . Also, if it were a plural, wouldn't it have been alea jacta sunt? Rwflammang 16:15, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  The literal Latin translation of alea iacta est should be "the die has been cast." iacta est is a third conjugation passive present perfect verb for a third person singular feminine noun, and if by itself without a noun, would be translated as "she has been cast." I am unfamiliar with the noun alea but since the verb takes a third person singular noun, it should not be translated as "dice" but instead should be translated as either "a game of dice" or just "a die". Thus I am changing the translation to "the die has been cast." Source: Vergil's Aeneid Selections from Books 1,2,4,6,10, & 12 by Barbara Weiden Boyd, ISBN 086516584.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gnaixgnem (talk • contribs) 03:55, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Literal Translation?

message: I heard that Erasmus thought the phrase had been corrupted, and that it really was Jacta alea esto, i.e., a third person singular future perfect imperative. It's an interesting point that I would like to include. Does anyone have a cite? Rwflammang 13:45, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Erasmus

message: :In each edition of the enormously popular French comic book Asterix, once Asterix sinks the pirates' ship, the first mate says to the captain, "Alea jacta est."
Actually, he says something different each time, though it's always a Latin cliché (e.g. in Asterix and the Magic Carpet (IIRC) he says "Sic transit gloria mundi"; in Asterix and the Roman Agent he says, before the ship sinks, something like "auri sacra fames". I guess he says "alea iacta est" (or the other spelling) in one of the books but certainly not all of them that he appears in. Hairy Dude (talk) 20:26, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed; it is used frequently in the books and animated films by Caesar himself, though, so I've amended the Asterix section to reflect that. -- Guybrush (talk) 06:08, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Asterix 

message: Article says 'The phrase is used repeatedly to comic effect in the French Asterix comic books along with other Latin phrases such as "Veni, vidi, but not quite vici"'.  That is NOT a Latin phrase.
The French Asterix books, or at least the first 27, do NOT contain 'but not quite', which is English.  Either omit 'French' as superfluous, or give the quotation as originated by Uderzo/Goscinny.
94.30.84.71 (talk) 12:07, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Literary references 

message: I am guessing this is from a US contributor (mold vs mould) but I'd like to query this information that it is commonly misunderstood in this sense - ie the mould has been created; I have never come across the phrase being misused in this sense in the UK or in anything I have ever read. Additionally, as the information has no supporting citation or references, I am suspicious of its veracity.
Suggestion - either provide supporting evidence that the phrase is misunderstood in this way with some degree of frequency and commonality, but let's make it clear that this is a misunderstanding. Alternatively, remove it, as I get the feeling the only person who misunderstands it this way might be the person who posted it?
Mungo Shuntbox (talk) 13:50, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The metal-casting angle was added as a "common origin myth" a few days ago, but with no source. Wikipedia requires references to confirm that this is both common and a myth, and I couldn't find any sources using it at all. --Lord Belbury (talk) 09:12, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Die-cast definition? 

message: This  article should be explicit, saying that the phrase has nothing to do with any die casting origins.
Else users, due to the unfortunate coincidence of double meanings for both "die" and "cast" in English will certainly guess the phrase (in English) could not be related to "lower class" street corner dice games, but instead be related to importaint metal industry etc.! Jidanni (talk) 00:30, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: The metal-casting angle was added as a "common origin myth" a few days ago, but with no source. Wikipedia requires references to confirm that this is both common and a myth, and I couldn't find any sources using it at all. --Lord Belbury (talk) 09:12, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Be explicit 

message: The lede currently says "The same event inspired another idiom with the same meaning, crossing the Rubicon." I would dispute this meaning, I think it's sloppy. You could use them in the same sentence, "he has crossed to Rubicon, so the die is cast." It's like two of the laws of thermodynamics, the first part (Rubicon) emphasizes that there is no turning back; the second part (the die) emphasizes that the future is unforeseeable and even random/up to the Fates. 2603:8001:D300:A631:0:0:0:10D0 (talk) 20:04, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rubicon, another idiom with the same meaning? 

message: Under "Meaning and forms" the first sentence is "Caesar was said to have borrowed the phrase from Menander, the famous Greek writer of comedy, whom he appreciated more than the Roman playwright Terence." which seems odd to me.  What's up with Terence?  What does he have to do with it? (talk) Volodiscere (talk) 14:12, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  What's with Terence?