Talk:Pickup (music technology)

message: Man, there were no pics of some of the famous pickup configurations, so I added a J Bass to show split poles, and some vintage 1963 strat pickups to show some older models.  I admit, these pictures were taken from other photos (my photos, of course), but I will soon rephoto the instruments and provide better views.
Are there any other pickups you want to get pics of?  I might either have some, or could probably find and photo some. ReignMan (talk) 08:45, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pictures 

message: Somebody smart, please add a section on guitars that have a combination of electromagnetic and piezoelectric pickups like the Nashville Strat, and the advantages of this combination.  Thank you Internet.  Basilwhite (talk) 18:52, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Hybrid Electromagnetic/Piezoelectric

message: Anyone know the equ cct of a variable reluctance pick-up?. Is the output inductive or resistive?--Light current 04:00, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Circuit Discussion

message: Why was the right parenthesis I added removed? Wilson 16:43, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh. Apparently when I edit this article, the edit box cuts it off at that "a". Can somebody else place that right parenthesis in there? Wilson 16:46, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Strange coincidence.  I upgraded to the latest version of the Linkification extension and I wasn't able to edit the article, either.  Not the same problem as you, is it? — Omegatron 19:49, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hmm. I also updated Linkification. Probably has to do with it. I'll look into it. Wilson 21:53, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  What a bizarre coicidence.  :-) — Omegatron 22:32, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Why are you removing all the Wikilinks, 'O'?--Light current 17:51, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  You removed them, and I put them back.  Pay more attention to what you're doing, please.  It's not the first time you've removed or mangled content accidentally.  — Omegatron 19:52, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Forgiven. :-) — Omegatron 22:32, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Editing Discussion

message: Do you have any details on how FET amps do not distort as sharply as bipolar transistor amps? I have not heard of this phenomenon. Doesnt it also depend on the actual circuit design?--Light current 15:26, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, distortion and linearity depend on the amplifier topology much more than the type of device used. — Omegatron 15:51, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Oh!  I added that!  How irresponsible of me.  I was thinking of something specific.  I'll fix it. — Omegatron 15:56, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  FET preamps with piezo pickups 

message: ::Two things seem clear to me:  (1) The guitar string material must have a high permeability in order to have any significant affect on the magnetic circuit and (2) this means the string will be magnetized in the presence of the pickup magnet.  It occurs to me then that describing the operation of the guitar pickup using the magnetic circuit approach or the 'vibrating magnet near a coil' may be equivalent - just different perspectives.  Alfred Centauri 02:00, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Magnetized in the sense that the magnetic domains of the steel in the guitar string align with the magnetic field of the magnet in the pickup while in the presence of that magnetic field.  Alfred Centauri 02:25, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Resistors are linear; ferromagnets are not. — Omegatron 03:04, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A resistor, in a purely circuit context is a 'sink' for emf.  Of course, a real resistor will have some inductance and so will be a source (but not a net source) for emf when there is a changing current through it.   I'll have to think about whether this could have anything to do with this particular discussion.   Hmmm....  Alfred Centauri 03:16, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

text: ""Conventional pickup elements for guitars consist of a permanent magnet and a coil of isolated wire.  The amount of flux through the coil is modulated by the vibration of the nearby, soft-magnetic string and therefore induces an alternating current in the coil."  Isn't this precisely the magnetic reluctance description of operation (without using the word reluctance)?  Alfred Centauri 12:21, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Regarding your first two points:  What you say is true but that's not necessarily 'good'.  In other words, the description of operation from the journal is good - as far as it goes.  Sure, Faraday's law tells us that changing the magnetic flux linking a coil produces a voltage between the ends of the coil.  However, the more curious reader of this article may ask "how does the vibrating string modulate the flux through the coil?"  Faraday's law doesn't address this.  Thus, Faraday's law alone cannot completely describe the operation of the pickup.  Alfred Centauri 13:13, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alfreds entry 

message: Can we include both descriptions?  The induced magnetism version is arguably correct, though misleading when simplified.  The magnetic reluctance version is more correct, but much more difficult to understand.  Let's use the simpler one first, and then say "in more detail..." and explain magnetic reluctance.  Those who don't care to learn more will still understand the basic idea. — Omegatron 19:01, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems like an entirely too reasonable suggestion to me.  Alfred Centauri 21:18, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I dont agree we include both descriptions until both descriptions are shown to be correct.--Light current 22:44, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I don't believe superposition is valid here due to the non-linearity of the B-H characteristics of the magnet.  However, what Monsieurmagoo appears to be suggesting is, like any good engineer, we linearize the system via the 'small-signal approximation'.  Still, there's something 'fishy' about all this that I can't quite put my finger on.  For example, what would happen if the magnet is removed from the pickup and placed on the opposite side of the string?  I suppose, we would need to insert a core of some type in the pickup.  But then, wouldn't the core become magnetized?  Crap, I'm going in circles - time to sleep on this problem.  Alfred Centauri 03:25, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Alfred, maybe you ought to consider the magnetic circuit and its equivalent electric circuit and cast your mind back to my earlier question about emf and resistors? 8-)--Light current 11:44, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

text: THe reluctance of non ferromagnetic materials like air is linear because the BH curve is linear. Most of the reluctance in the magnetic circuit is provided by the path of flux thro' the air. This reluctance will behave as a resistor in the equ. cct. When the string moves within the flux generated by the field of the magnet, it alters the total reluctance of the magnetic path. Alteration of the total reluctance causes the magnitude of B to change (H provided by the permanent magnet is constant). Changes in B induce an emf in the coil! Simple!--Light current 13:30, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Both descriptions? 

message: The string concentrates the flux lines through itself because of its high permability cf the surrounding air). When the string is sitting directly above the pole piece centre line, the high permability of the string lowers the total effective reluctance of the magnetic circuit (cf what it would be with no string).  When the string is displaced to either side of the pole piece centre line (or further away in a vertical direction), it is easily seen that the path length the flux has to travel to reach the low reluctance string has been increased slightly. This increased path length neccesarily increases the total reluctance of the magnetic circuit slightly. The small change in the total flux in the magnetic circuit thus caused is converted to an emf by the massive number of turns of wire in the pickup.    --Light current 14:02, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  My explanation of pickup operation. 

message: Most broadcasting and recording studios as well as many high fidelity systems use variable reluctance pickup units. THese posess a fixed magnetic field produced by a permanent magnet. The stylus is mechanically attached to an iron vane or armature located in an air gap between the poles of the magnet. Movement of the armature, created by the stylus, changes the reluctance of the magnetic path and creates a changing flux through the magnet. A coil of wire is wrapped around the magnet and the changing flux in the system generates a varying voltage across the coil terminals. Electrical output from such a pickup is on the order of 10-20mV
Julian L. Bernstein (Associate Dean of the DaySchool , RCA Institutes INc), Audio Systems, publ John Wiley and Sons, 1966, Lib of Congress No:66-17326
If you were to replace the words 'stylus mechanically attached to iron vane or armature' by the words 'guitar string' and the word 'armature' by 'string', you have a description of the guitar pick up, as I initially said! Voila! 8-)--Light current 17:34, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Interesting quote from book. 

message: Hello, folks.  Sorry for starting this new topic, but I didn't want my question to get involved on the discussion about wether is "best"  to see the pickup effect in one way or another.  I'm actually "pro-circuit" AND "pro-Faraday" myself.  Both views are needed to understand the phenomenon, and they are the same thing...  And the pickup is actually a difficult thing to understand...
Well, it was thinking about this magnectic circuit model that the question struck me:  how actually is the circuit?
There is the magnet section, with low reluctance, and and air section, with high air reluctance, and then a ferromagnectic string section, again with low reluctance... But then how does the circuit closes? Trough air and wood, or can we ground the base of the magnet to the strings, creating a low-reluctance return path?
I've read about placing a metal plate on the magnet base and grounding it, but just for the purpose of shielding the pickup.  Doesn't it also affects the intensity of the induction, making the magnectic reluctance much smaller, and changing much more?? What happens if we do this?  (I'm still afraid to open up my beautiful guitar... :>  )
I'm studying the electric guitar in my EE masters, and I would like very much making contact with other people who have studied the subject, and I would also appreciate some references about this!... Please, get in touch!...
Thank you all... -- NIC1138 22:56, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Magnectic circuits and grounding the magnet base 

message: Let's say you've got a guitar with a single coil next to the bridge and then a humbucker half way between the single coil and the neck. Will the position or the type of pickup make more of a difference in the tone? Gopherbassist 18:01, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Position or type?

message: Dear Wiki users,
I'm currently reading "Guitar Electronics: A Workbook" by Donald Brosnac (Brosnac, Donald. Guitar Electronics: a workbook.  Ojai, Calif.: d.B. Music Co., 1980.).  On Page 21, Brosnac discusses the operation of the humbucker pickup in terms of its parts, and I noticed that the Wikipedia article and the book do not agree completely on how the humbucker operates.
The possible error might be in the statement that BOTH the coils AND magnet are out of phase with each other.  This book does not mention the polarity reversal of the magnets; rather, the reverse polarity of the coils affects the magnetic fields of the magnets.  Thus, the magnets do not need to be inversed - the coils take care of that.  Finally, the magnetic induction from the string movement are automatically flipped to be in phase with each other when the induced currents are created in the coil (Brosnac 21).
Cmsalmeron 01:55, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Check my edit. Danilo Roascio 23:17, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible Error with Humbucker Description 

message: I removed the section on Motherbuckers because it seemed out-of-place in the section on pickup construction and looked like a possible product advertisement to me.  Does anyone feel that this is a radically different pickup design that deserves special mention in this article?  Steve CarlsonTalk 19:48, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Motherbucker 

message: I wondered whether anyone had found audio clips that would provide an example of the difference in tone/sound of single coil pickups compared to humbuckers?  If anyone does I would like to know.
Nowiky (talk) 00:28, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Single Coil vs. Humbucker 

message: I was thinking it might be relevant to include something about the use of active pickups in clavinets.  Other old keyboard instruments also used various types of pickups.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.28.91.72 (talk) 17:33, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clavinet active pickups 

message: I believe chapman sticks can output in stereo - the bass strings on one channel and the right-hand (tenor?) strings on the other.  However I do not know for certain (IANA stickist) so I'm not adding it under the multiple outputs section myself
Stuart M (talk) 22:14, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  multiple outputs section 

message: Why is such an esoteric instrument listed in the lead? Very few actually use this instrument, and it is known only to a select few. It seems odd that it should be listed in the lead paragraph. I would suggest that, if the Stick is to be included, it be merged somewhere in the body. 08:38, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chapman Stick in Lead? 

message: The inductive source impedance inherent in this type of transducer makes it less linear than other forms of pickups[citation needed], such as piezo-electric or optical. The tonal quality produced by this nonlinearity is, however, subject to taste, and some guitarists and luthiers consider it aesthetically superior to a more linear transducer[citation needed].
This seems terribly wrong. What is meant is that the transfer spectrum would be more even. But this has nothing to do with linearity. From an electronic perspective, (non)linearity is about the voltage/current relationship of a circuit. All impedances are linear, and optical transducers nonlinear.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.209.199.229 (talk) 19:08, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pickup sound 

message: The notation section says that pickups are listed "in order from bridge pickup to neck pickup," but all the images show the opposite order with the neck on the left. Is there a reason why the images should not be rotated to match the notation? If no, anyone know how to do that? If yes, it should be explained in the article for people like me who don't know much about guitars. ColinClark (talk) 23:15, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notation and image orientation.  

message: A section on chronological events which lead to modern pickups would be nice to have; unfortunately I myself am not very knowledgeable on this, or on the books which would be recommended to read on this topic; the very reason I read this article.  There obviously are sections about emerging technologies such as the humbucker, but it's still not the equivalent of a development history section.  Thanks, 76.10.128.192 (talk) 03:42, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed.  Who invented the pickup?  If it's controversial, whom claims to have? - Immigrant laborer (talk) 20:55, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  History 

message: The article seems to force belief that "pickups" are used only in fretted instruments. 
No mention made of (for instance) Barcus-Berry, and their violin transducers (still in use), or the one used on "Tobacco Road" by The Nashville Teens that got such a jangly sound from their acoustic piano. No mention of electric pianos -- the word "piano" doesn't even appear in the article (!!), yet electric piano routes readers back here by word #50 (as "magnetic pickups").
Even for a guitar-centric article, this overlooks the contributions of Harry DeArmond & Rowe Industries (& that latter really needs its own article!). No mention of early efforts like the Gibson ES-150's "Charlie Christian" pickup or the Rickenbacker horseshoe or Vivi-Tone "moving magnet" design or Danelectro "lipsticks" or...
Could title be changed to Guitar pickup (music technology) to at least accurately reflect this bias? Weeb Dingle (talk) 03:09, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: the lowered source impedance drives capacitive cable with lower high frequency attenuation.
First: someone who understands the terminology likely knows this stuff already. Second: casual and non-knowledgeable readers — Wikipedia's target audience — would require much fuller explanation, which is not this article's responsibility.Weeb Dingle (talk) 20:05, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: guitars, guitars, and... guitars

message: Only now does it dawn on me how much verbiage is wasted on smart-sounding words. For instance,
:the lowered source impedance drives capacitive cable with lower high frequency attenuation.
First: someone who understands the terminology likely knows this stuff already. Second: casual and non-knowledgeable readers — Wikipedia's target audience — would require much fuller explanation, which is not this article's responsibility.Weeb Dingle (talk) 20:05, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: excess jargon, too

message: There's no serious attempt to address what the heck a "hot pickup" is, much less to explain the mania to the general reader. The topic is glossed over in the Output section, which is made up mostly of erroneous claims.
Maybe someone knows of a credible source, but here's a brief version. So-called "hot" pickups simply have increased signal output, almost always due to higher impedance, in turn almost always due to more winds of wire on the bobbins. One resultant myth is that this makes the guitar somehow "sound louder"; actually, it does create a marginally "grungier" tone for the initial attack. Mostly, though, as impedance is increased, higher tones don't increase as much as lower, so hotter pickups sound "warmer" or even "darker," and outright "muddy" (lacking tonal clarity) if pursued beyond reason.
I've never seen much reason for hot humbuckers, given modern sound-shaping electronics, and going "cool" might be better for many players. But hot single-coil pickups go a long way to reduce the "jangly" tone inherent to that design.
See? Still lots of things to cover in the article.Weeb Dingle (talk) 04:26, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  the "hot pickup" meme should be addressed