Talk:2006 FIFA World Cup/Archive 6

message: Created archive 5. sikander 16:52, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Archive 5

message: Anyone know what prompted the fight on the field right after Germany won the match? It was one of the argentenian players vs a german assisstant coach... but why ? sikander 17:49, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think Bierhoff got involved (he is some sort of a co-manager for the German team. TSO1D 17:50, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fight! Fight!? Fight? 

message: Lots of referee mishaps, the latest one being a yellow card for Rodriguez of Argentina instead of a penalty shot, not to mention the hand ball in the box. Same goes for Ghana-Brazil, Australia, etc. Surprised no mention in the article so far? Marred just like Korea. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pawel z Niepolomic (talk • contribs).
:Rodriguez obviously dived. The ref was completely correct. -- Arwel (talk) 19:10, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Plus the hand ball in the box I assume you're talking about from when the Argentine goalkeeper was injured.  If so, that was a ball to hand play and not a hand to ball, thus not a hand ball.  --Rangers85 19:30, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

text: See 2006 FIFA World Cup controversies for "referee mishaps", among other controversies. -- Mareklug talk 14:00, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Referee controversies 

message: Penalties scored in penalty shootouts don't count as goals. I checked the official website.
I removed Borowski and Ballack from the Individual Scorers section.
87.4.198.24 12:53, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good thinking! FordTuffinIt 18:06, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

text: No, I think it was good. Too much information can be bad. It is all still there in the history too of course. --Guinnog 23:37, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

text: A complete list is useful. Not only does it mean that we (Wikipedia) have a full and complete record of the event but it also means that other editors may refer to these articles when editing the bios of individual players. To score just one goal at a World Cup is a big thing worthy of inclusion. -- Alias Flood 01:55, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Ah well, I didn't realise that this had been done with all the other World Cups too. Personally I still believe its a little OTT, but if you want a page of lists.... --Robdurbar 08:23, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. --Guinnog 17:20, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK for the complete list but then Portuguese scorers with one goal should be listed..  Furthermore they still can score in future matches. Julien Tuerlinckx 22:01, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Goalscorers 

message: Can someone please put the editing on lock or something for this page? Some people can't handle the fact that Portugal won and keep editing the final brackets. Kazuhara 20:58, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeahh... read the top of the talk page, it's not going to happen no matter how many times we complain about it. ScottNak 21:06, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Editing 

message: OED prefers stadiums for the buildings and stadia for the units of length... - Abscissa 07:39, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I changed stadia to stadiums - Stadia sounds obsolete as stadium has become native english word meriting standard plural s. - G3, 10:43, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. --Guinnog 13:35, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Apparently someone didn't. I'll swap the stadia back to stadiums. If someone objects I'd like an explanation first. - G3, 17:04, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Agree per G3. - Abscissa 13:18, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stadiums or stadia? 

message: Taken from Archive 3
What's with these balls that the team captains are exchanging at e beginning of matches along with the usual FA pennants? Jooler 21:48, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Erm this answer is a bit late, but the balls say "UNITAID" on them, it is a international medicine purchasing scheme for developing countries. The ball exchange is to raise awareness for the charity. Fifaworldcup.com some other info – AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 11:02, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Talking <sup>of</sup> balls

message: --Greasysteve13 08:56, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd be opposed to this.  The 1998 FIFA World Cup article doesn't contain any information on the far more significant trouble that took place then.  I can't see anything in the appropriate category though that doesn't mean there shouldn't be something somewhere.  I would not agree that the "riots" had been a particularly notable part of this tournament. MLA 10:25, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh okay.--Greasysteve13 03:44, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Can we dedicate a section of this to all the riots? 

message: My idea about a white line in the bottom of  has been removed. It is to difference between a match and the another. However, i still think this is good idea. But can someone comments about this idea? Aleenf1 07:02, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good or Bad? 

message: Hey!  What about adding a time countdown to the next game?  My simple mind has a hard time figuring out when the game will start, and a countdown would show an easy to read "1 hour to Next Match".  This could be applied to all the games left or just the next game, because there is only one game at at time for now on.--200.82.238.132 15:50, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems a bit late in the day for that sort of addition, given that there's only three matches out of a total of sixty-four left to play.... ChrisTheDude 14:04, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Countdown?

message: The chart showing the progression of the Cup was very useful.  Why is it gone??  Moncrief 21:46, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Why did you take out the chart?

message: The match report lists it at 121 minutes, so in stoppage time during extra time.
The page that the match report links to  shows it as 121+ what to do?  I'm a proponent of using the match reports, but also in uniformity with the other scores in stoppage time.  What do you guys think? Batman2005 21:48, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We've been doing the + for goals in stoppage time thus far this tournament, so having the + would create uniformity. --Rangers85 22:06, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

text: The match reports never use the + sign, but I think it's useful to show scores in stoppage time nevertheless. --Arkan5 22:11, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed, esp. when the Official FIFA website also show the same thing.(w/"+" sign) --WinHunter (talk) 03:44, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Right. ESPN also used  "121+" for del Pieros goal. - Kookykman|(t)e 13:21, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

text: However, that same site uses the notation 120+1' in the game highlights videos.BassoProfundo 15:37, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  del Piero Goal.. 

message: The page has been vandalized (again). The following edits need to be reverted: edit 1 edit 2. One solution would be to go back to version by Shreshth91 and then add any subsequent changes. --Oden 21:50, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I reverted the damage to the last 16 section... someone else caught the other one... The 'see also', 'references' and 'external links' sections were also deleted, and I've reverted that... so I think it's all fixed now. Can anyone see anything that's been missed? --StuartBrady (Talk) 22:29, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: Unless someone gets injured or sent off in the last semi-final game, the active scorers WILL NOT CHANGE until the end of the tournement due to the third-place game. Just a reminder for those eager to remove the semi-finals losers.  Pimlottc 22:03, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added extra comments so that nobody should be able to miss it, now... but I'm not sure what to do about France and Portugal. I think similar comments are needed in advance to stop this from happening again. --StuartBrady (Talk) 22:40, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't believe that even with the extra comments people are still changing the names. Bruno18 23:05, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, it's annoying.  I'm not sure any amount of extra comments will stop some people.  Right after the game ended, people were changing it as fast as we could change it back. --Rangers85 23:18, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You can't actually see the warnings when reverting.  SLUMGUM  yap  stalk  23:27, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Hehe. Yeah, looks like I was wrong. I might add some for France and Portugal, then hopefully nobody will make the mistake in the first place. Beyond that, there's not much we can do. --StuartBrady (Talk) 23:39, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe try changing the comment to something like "DO NOT UNBOLD - Germany still has to play 3rd place final", "is not inactive" might be a bit vague. I know, that's not going to stop it either... :\ 151.41.219.159 23:47, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Already done, thanks to Marco bisello. --StuartBrady (Talk) 23:55, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Active scorers 

message: Those bastard whops knew they didn't deserve to win. Those bastards were outplayed by Germany and knew they were beat by Australia. Kingjeff 22:06, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's real football. This match was amazing--Givern 22:15, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Trully amazing indeed. --webkid 22:57, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Hey guys, Wikipedia is not a soapbox. Please keep comments to yourself about who should have won, what refereeing calls should have/could have been made, etc. Take these sorts of comments to a non-Wikipedia message board or other discussion forum. See: WP:NOT, WP:NPOV. Ian Manka Talk to me! 22:35, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you really want to talk to Wikipedia users about this, e-mail users directly. Thanks. Ian Manka Talk to me! 22:36, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Kingjeff should also be banned for the blatant racism too, totally unacceptable. - Deathrocker 02:22, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Italy

message: What was the symphonic-sounding anthem played at the end of today (Italy d. Germany)?  It was at least played at the conclusion of France d. Spain as well. - Slow Graffiti 22:47, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You'll Never Walk Alone? I was a bit surprised to see the German crowd singing along to that after the end of the match! -- Arwel (talk) 22:51, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's what I was told, but I can't really hear the lyrics (or main vocal melody) - just an epic-sounding orchestral melody.  It doesn't sound like the recordings of the song I have, anyway.  If that's it, whose recording is played? I know it's big in Liverpool.  Is this a World Cup tradition I've missed, or something introduced this year?  - Slow Graffiti 22:58, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd never heard it at the World Cup before tonight - it wasn't a vocal version, so not the Gerry Marsden version that Liverpool use. They've been using "Go West" a lot at this World Cup, but I don't think there are any WC musical traditions. Dario G's Carnaval de Paris is used fairly often - that was written for the '98 WC and contains snatches in the musical style of each of the qualified countries. -- Arwel (talk) 23:37, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It sounds like the russian national anthem too me, but that would be sort of weird. 217.211.232.135 00:17, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: German language media identify it as You'll Never Walk Alone 85.178.121.138 04:46, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think You'll Never Walk Alone was sung by the fans, but that's not the song I'm referring to (unless someone did a very different remake using the Russian national anthem melody).  It sounds remarkably like the Russian national anthem, Hymn of the Russian Federation. I've watched my recording of today's game several times, but the announcers talking throughout the post game celebration as the song is playing, so it's hard to make out.  Yet it doesn't sound exactly like it, even after combing through several recording of the anthem here. - Slow Graffiti 04:58, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

text: If it's the one I'm thinking of, it's similar to the Russian national anthem but not quite it. If you've been to a football match it would be the tune of "Stand up, for the champions" (repeat) or similar... Can't put my finger on the original tune though... – AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 05:07, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "Stand up, for the champions" or "Stand up, for the Engerland" (sic) or "1-nil to the Arsenal" etc is Go West (song) as mentioned before. I've been listening to the Baddiel and Skinner podcasts and they've been at various games. At the stadiums they are playing various traditional football songs (Three Lions for example) at half-time and after the match. At the end of the Germany-Italy game, the crowd definitely sang along to the Gerry & the Pacemakers version of You'll Never Walk Alone. I didn't hear any other song being played. Jooler 05:20, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

text: It was played over the arena a minute after Del Piero's goal while all of the players were still on the field.  The meldoy is similar to the Pet Shop Boy's Go West (as well as the National Anthem), but it is definitely a symphonic performance.  There are trumpets blaring and cymbals crashing; an operatic tenor voice hits and holds out the last note in dramatic fashion.  I'm trying to get my video capture card working so I can get the audio clip from today's game. - Slow Graffiti 05:46, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Go West (song) says 'an orchestral version was adopted by FIFA as the official theme, entitled "Stand up", and performed by Patrizio Buanne' (an Italian baritone).. – AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 06:07, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Aha!! - it is indeed - see  Jooler 06:30, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: you can listen to a few seconds - here Jooler 06:35, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Well, they were definitely playing the Gerry Marsden version of YNWA after the Portugal-France match tonight - the BBC were interviewing Marcel Desailly and Leonardo in the stadium with it going full-blast in the background! -- Arwel (talk) 21:07, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Song played at the end of games 

message: Is there any particular reason we're not using  for England? --StuartBrady (Talk) 01:33, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I changed it because  was not bordered at that time and I didn't know if it's ok to change a template. There's no reason not to use it now as far as I can see. --Arkan5 12:23, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Why don't you just border it? - Kookykman|(t)e 13:24, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure how you'd do that with ... but that can't be the right approach, as  should work magically. --StuartBrady (Talk) 13:57, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Individual scorers 

message: Could an admin please semi-protect this? We're getting vandalism every few seconds. - Kookykman|(t)e
:You'll need to request it at WP:RFPP -- Steel 13:35, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And you'll need to look at the 25 other discussions about semi-protection on this page.  God, don't you people read before you post something. Batman2005 13:40, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you read as well? :) "Please respect etiquette and assume good faith. Also be nice and remain civil." - Slow Graffiti 16:02, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protection, please? 

message: Please realize that Zinedine Zidane has just scored his second goal of this Fifa World Cup and NOT his third.
So, will we ever find out what was said between Zidane and Materazzi? --Kimonandreou 22:11, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Zinedine Zidane 

message: This page has been used by a small world to keep track of the games. Its shameful to see it open for vandals. Lock it, please. 
Heathebe05 09:10, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not though, I looked through the last 3 days of history and any vandalism was taken care of in an average of 3 minutes.  This page is one of the most updated pages on the entire project right now and a great many of them are IP users, a lot of whom are adding constructively, there's no need to take that away from them.  There are more than enough people here at present to deal with any vandalism that pops up. Batman2005 00:06, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aussie Vandalism 

message: As we near the end of the tournament I would like to express my gratitude for everyone who contributed to the speediness and accuracy of the updates. Keeping up with the action on the pitch as well as editing out all of the vandalism was certainly a challenge and I think the result of your diligence, patience and hard work has been fantastic! You've heard it before, maybe not often enough, and hopefully you'll hear it again, but from the bottom of my heart:  Thank You Very Much!     3Phillips 21:41, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Excellent job everyone. sikander 05:33, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Yes the work done on this page and its sub-pages and Wikinews is probably the best independent source of information about this World Cup and this page alone has been receiving something like 500 edits a day, and comes up on Google searches within the top ten just below the Official FIFA sites all sorts of combinations of searches surrounding the World Cup, and yet, the bloody martinets who reign over what appears on WP:ITN and the rest of the front page, can't be bothererd to indicate this, or have a link here from the main page, and it's the bloody final today!  Jooler 15:59, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: A Well Deserved Thank You

message: I've added the tournament logo in the bracket. There was lots of empty white space in the top-left corner so I thought about adding the logo there. Comments ? sikander 05:34, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have removed it, as purely decorative use of unfree images is not permitted by the fair use policy. Sorry! Oldelpaso 08:04, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm ok, that's fine. sikander 14:28, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tournament logo in bracket 

message: I've taken this down as I didn't think it added to the article and makes the section harder to read. --Guinnog 09:52, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It looks like we don't agree on anything... :). It is common, on italian newspapers, to indicate the goals scored on penalties as additional information. I think it could be interesting to know it, and few numbers in brackets do not affect readability (they were present in the Own Goal section and nobody has ever complaint about them).--130.251.4.11 10:07, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Own goals are different as they affect which team wins the game! There is always a tendency to over-edit and over-annotate information. You could have little symbols indicating if players scored in the first or second half, whether it was from open play or a set-piece, header or shot, etc. I would resist all such additions equally. Just the number of goals scored is fine with me, and of course the onus is on you to show a consensus in favour of including the info. Just because Italian newspapers do it this way is not a convincing argument to me. Sorry. --Guinnog 10:20, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not saying that info about penalty has the same value as own goals. But it is relevant info anyways. It tells a lot about the scoring ability of a player "on the field". And the italian newspapers are just an example. If penalties have the same value as headers or free-kicks, why are they indicated in the match reports? Coherence would require to remove the (pen) tag there too. --Calippo 11:01, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

text: *User's second edit--WinHunter (talk) 12:44, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

text: What is the meaning of the above statement (User's second edit)?--Calippo 12:53, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I wouldn't agree with removing the (pen) tag from the match reports. The status quo seems just fine to me. --Guinnog 11:08, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I wouldn't either. This shows that the info is relevant. --Calippo 11:12, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Can please someone else express his opinion about this? So far this "poll" is 50%-50% :)--Calippo 13:41, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think including the number of penalties scored by each player would help slightly... but that's as far as it should go. I can see the other side of the argument, though. --StuartBrady (Talk) 14:59, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think they should be included at all, leave them in the match box where they belong, but don't put them in brackets or anything in the "Individual Scorers" section.  That section should be only for goals that count towards the actual tally of goals, not penalty shootout scores.  If we're talking about goals during the run of play that came from the penalty spot I still see no need to distinguish that on the scorers list.  What's next? putting another set of brackets for goals scored on free kicks? or headers?  Just leave it was the total goals scored. Batman2005 00:02, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I totally agree. --Guinnog 20:35, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we knew that, already! Anyway, the issue's settled. One thing though — the "own goals" section had the number of own goals scored by each player in brackets, but the section was renamed to "1 own goal". Shouldn't that change be reverted, too? --StuartBrady (Talk) 20:57, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Penalties

message: Should this be added to the awards?
Goalkeepers: Gianluigi Buffon (Italy), Jens Lehmann (Germany), Ricardo (Portugal).
Defenders: Roberto Ayala (Argentina), John Terry (England), Lilian Thuram (France), Philipp Lahm (Germany), Fabio Cannavaro (Italy), Gianluca Zambrotta (Italy), Ricardo Carvalho (Portugal).
Midfielders: Ze Roberto (Brazil), Patrick Vieira (France), Zinedine Zidane (France), Michael Ballack (Germany), Andrea Pirlo (Italy), Gennaro Gattuso (Italy), Luis Figo (Portugal), Maniche (Portugal).
Strikers: Hernan Crespo (Argentina), Thierry Henry (France), Miroslav Klose (Germany), Francesco Totti (Italy), Luca Toni (Italy).
got it from here
::I think it should be included on the FIFA World Cup awards page as it would then be included with all the past awards.  Then on this page we could put something that directs the user to that page for more information.  Similar to what we've done with the "Squads" listing. Batman2005 00:04, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The squads list I understand but the all-star team takes up only about 10 lines and is much more important, IMO. Squadoosh 21:23, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The all-star team is more important to the tournament than the squads?  Without the squads there'd be no tournament!  There is an awards page specifically for this information, why are we double posting it? Batman2005 03:22, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well so far you are the only one that has objected. I say keep it. Squadoosh 19:00, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I don't really care if it stays but why were some of the players changed? Is it the favourite squad of one editor now? --Arkan5 19:46, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The MasterCard All-Star Squad

message: If there was a Golden Flipper or Golden Swimming Cap, I think Cristiano Ronaldo would have won it. He's a disgrace. Jooler 19:53, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ach, he's not the only player we've seen diving in the tournament. And at least he didn't stamp on anybody's goolies in front of the ref, like some I could mention! Now, enough of this idle chat and let's get on with something encyclopedic. --Guinnog 21:46, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Golden Flipper