Talk:Lima/Archive 1

message: (from Wikipedia:Requested moves)
====Lima, Peru → Lima====
Lima is a city of eight million, and every major city deserves to have an article that doesn't need further explanation of its name, even if there are other places that share the same name. Examples of this are: Saint Petersburg, London and York. The significance of the other places listed in the disambiguation page is much smaller than that of Lima, Peru. -- Tuomas 22:46, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page move discussion 

message: Lima is a city of eight million, and every major city deserves to have an article that doesn't need further explanation of its name, even if there are other places that share the same name. Examples of this are: Saint Petersburg, London and York. The significance of the other places listed in the disambiguation page is much smaller than that of Lima, Peru. -- Tuomas 22:46, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Lima, Peru]] &rarr; [[Lima]]

message: A nickname is a short, informal name, like the hub (Boston) or the big apple (NY). "La ciudad de los reyes" does not fall into this category. It may be a motto, depending on whether it is used officially, although mottos usually have an exhortive character. -- Viajero 16:05, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: By historically terms is accurate to say motto instead nickname, many historians have made an accord by research, during the early years of spanish colonial regime in the 16th century , authorities, nobility , dwellers, peasants and slaves used the name City of Kings instead Lima (name which has been refered from an amerindian flower), it appeared on official maps by cartographers at that time as well. Used as motto from the time of Charles I of Spain and his court to nobility in many spanish american colonies. Historians like Pablo Macera believe the name Lima was tend to be accepted as name after Napolean's brother took over Spain in the beginning of 19th century and the dawn of independence as matter of nationalism and its further ideals.HappyApple 22:36, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  nickname vs motto 

message: # demographics. Sorry, you are wrong. Also, I don't see this term used in a similar way for other cities. To which "standard" are you referring?
# motto. Based on what you write above, this is phrase is not a motto. Please consult an dictionary about the current usage of the meaning; it is more or less equivalent to slogan.
# metro. We don't need to state mass-transit because by defition a metro is mass-transit; the term is redundant here. Also, most metros consist of more than just rails; I assume the Lima one does as well.
Look, we are spending far too much time and energy on insignificant details. There are many topics on Peru which urgently need work; there is lots to do. It is wonderful that there are Peruvians like you now contributing to these pages. However, you must keep in mind that this is a collaborative effort and that we all contribute different things. If you are unable to accept native speakers of English correcting your texts, then you won't last very long here. I have reverted your most recent changes; let's move onto other matters now please. -- Viajero 10:19, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It is just a discussion, to ensure which term should be most accurate on Lima article. I have already consulted with Britannica Encyclopedia however i will check on other reference such as Merriam Webster. The standard which i was refering it is on wikipedia template for city information, the word demographics is not in there so i stopped modifying it. However I insist based on historian's opinion its more accurate to call it motto, however slogan it is good choice too.
*I think so you are right in some way, metro by definition is a mass transit indeed, but not all people know that, however your terms are acceptable and i consider end to this topic.
*#The agreement signed between our mayor and the president according said to press said, it will allow the finance for pending rails tracks left unfinished from the 80's and it doesn't seem mention of financing new wagons or multiple units, i think it would be appropiate to specify on article and preventing further missunderstanding. 
*I agree with you as a collaborative effort, but i think an accurate information should be written. There are other matters of interest related to Peru articles such as political and historical figures for example which i am doing research to write those articles.And i remind you on every topic on encyclopedia like in science and culture, even insignificant details like you said have very deeply impact on readers. Be humble.HappyApple 14:33, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: message to HappyApple 

message: I have only ever (in English) seen the name given as "National University of San Marcos" or (my personal pref.) "San Marcos National University". What has happened is that with 5 centuries of history in there, the San Marcos flag has been disassociated from the evangelist to become an inextricable part of the university's name. That's how the names of universities work in translation: take at look at the :es:Universidad de Cambridge article on w:es -- for example, "Michaelhouse ...  se unió a King's Hall para crear Trinity". Putting a line in the intro saying that it's named after St Mark is a great idea, but the name of the university in English is San Marcos. –Hajor 17:39, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Sanity and San Marcos

message: Following changes made on Lima city article.
*Stated Saint Mark in parenthesis :
**Due to it's still on discussion i propose as neutrality of this issue to have the anglizice name in parenthesis.
*Added City of Lima in the main city data chart.
**User:StarbucksFreak used the name City of Lima in it's article, List of universities in Peru. 
*Added information about Saint Mark still on operation as same being considered the most presitigious center of higher learning in Lima and Peru.
**It is well known by peruvians as same by worldwide community Saint Mark's fame is known everywhere.For over four centuries, tradition and international recognition was gained.   
*Removed image of Miraflores financial district image.
**Fixed temporal typo.
*Added photography from Museum vases in Lima City Walls park, to culture section.
===Still need===
*Museums in Lima
*Soon replacement to Miraflores financial district photograph.
I hope usefull contributions like from User:StarbucksFreak can improve this article a little bit, keep going. HappyApple 03:12, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  I believe the statement about San Marcos being the most prestigious university is not NPOV, as HappyApple is a student of this institution. The Catolica and Cayetano Heredia universities have gained a lot of prestige in the last decades and should be considered to be of the same level as San Marcos. I see HappyApple has reverted these changes for the second time. Maybe we should vote on this? --Tuomas  hello 06:19, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)
See my current edit. I would agree, myself, that only the Catolica is at the same level as a general institution, but specialized schools such
as the UNI, Cayetano Heredia and perhaps the Agraria are very good at what they do. Hasdrubal 18:58, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Small modifications 

message: *Museums in Lima
*Soon replacement to Miraflores financial district photograph.
I hope usefull contributions like from User:StarbucksFreak can improve this article a little bit, keep going. HappyApple 03:12, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Still need

message: *Universities accuracy
**In the paragraph regarding to universities, National University of San Marcos (Saint Mark) deserves to be highlighted as center of higher education. If the paragraph doesn't follow appropiate grammar, any changes in this subject are welcome.HappyApple 02:32, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  I believe the statement about San Marcos being the most prestigious university is not NPOV, as HappyApple is a student of this institution. The Catolica and Cayetano Heredia universities have gained a lot of prestige in the last decades and should be considered to be of the same level as San Marcos. I see HappyApple has reverted these changes for the second time. Maybe we should vote on this? --Tuomas  hello 06:19, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)
See my current edit. I would agree, myself, that only the Catolica is at the same level as a general institution, but specialized schools such
as the UNI, Cayetano Heredia and perhaps the Agraria are very good at what they do. Hasdrubal 18:58, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Talk Point

message: Infobox: I'm not that familiar with infoboxes on city pages but I was trying to fix the page so that everything fit. , so that 
Removal of picture:The pic I removed was excess. I couldn't get all of the pics to fit in the history section and then after checking other city articles I realized most don't even have one pic. So I simply linked the page to the article itself which contains the pic. I kept the other pics because they ended fitting. Also, I felt the others were of more importance than the one I removed. Falphin 17:19, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: My changes

message: The only complaint I still have is that the Table of Contents is not on the Left side. A bit of a nitpick but I believe it should be kept in mind when the article is finished expanding. Falphin 22:07, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I fixed this by moving the image of the government house down. I also removed the sunset photo; it is essentially generic and could be anywhere; this article was getting too image-heavy and it was disrupting the layout. -- Viajero | Talk 10:51, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Table of Contents

message: Sorry, feel free to remove these comments and/or reformat them, am not familiar with wikipedia at all.
While looking at the Districts_of_Lima article, I noticed that some information is obviously wrong.
Namely, the Chaclacayo district is a problem. if you look at the spanish & english versions for Chaclacayo, you will see that the map mentions that district at a different location within Lima. I remember seeing a map on the net that shows it at the location of the spanish map. But I really don't know.
: Fixed. --StarbucksFreak 18:31, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Chaclacayo

message: The following text inserted by anon. It shows a clear POV and may be factually incorrect. If it can be verified and wikified please readd this information. savidan(talk) (e@) 01:26, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  I removed 

message: The population figure for Lima seems inflated. Is there a primary reference (i.e. direct link to a census office page) for the current figure? Also, it is unclear as to exactly what definition of Lima is being referred to here. The article seems to be about Lima province but only 30 out of the 43 districts? How is that different from the Lima province article? I will try and look for the primary sources and change the figures later unless someone does it first. Polaron 01:04, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But don't they have the same government? Is there a separate provincial government from the city government? This is more like Washington, DC merging with the District of Columbia rather than your New York example, I think. There are no statistics for a "Lima City" in INEI. There is the province and then the Cercado district,  but nothing in between. Polaron 03:26, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Would it not help the reader if they learn that the city and the province are the same? What are we going to include in the province article that is not in the city article? The government does not have separate statistics for "Lima City". Polaron 12:09, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

text: So there is a separate city/municipal government from the provincial government? If the city government has no jurisdiction over the 13 outer districts then I agree with having separate articles. But if the government of "city" and province are the same, then they should be merged. So what is the government structure of Lima? Polaron 02:58, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Also, if there will be separate articles, statistics for population, area, etc. should be changed for the city article. Polaron 02:59, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, the Municipalidad Metropolitana de Lima has jurisdiction over the whole Lima Province. Still, it would be a mistake to merge the pages, ie imply that districts like Pucusana or Santa María del Mar belong to the city of Lima. I guess you'd have to live in Lima to understand it. --StarbucksFreak 05:57, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lima province vs city vs metropolitana region 

message: Hi there, I deleted Jaime Bayly from the section Notable people born in Lima. According to the dictionary notable means:
:notable adj important, interesting, excellent, or unusual and therefore deserving to be noticed or mentioned.
From all the other people mentioned under the Writers subsection, Jaime Bayly doesn't fulfill the requirements stated above to be regarded as notable. He has only writen a couple of books, and had some TV-programs. --Carlosp420 03:08, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Granted, he is as "interesting" as Bryce Echenique, Ricardo Palma, Ribeyro or the other writers he shares the category with. I don't think so. --Carlosp420 01:23, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is a ''Notable person born in Lima''? 

message: It doesn't give any clue about why that information is relevant to the article, and why it must be immediately after the History subtitle. Please Ermeyers provide a consistent piece of information, and sustain why it must be in the place you chose.
--Ausum 01:16, August 29th 2006 (GMT-5)
:History and then Unseen history for a daytime solar event that couldn't possibly have been seen without scientific methods, or methods that look to the past's unseen events of history.  Did you even try to understand what I did, in good faith, before you simply deleted it?  Zenith simply indicates that the celestial event occurred directly over Lima, Peru.  This Asterism event related to Astronomy, Astrology and Christianity occurred at a Zenith directly over Lima, Peru, famously named the City of Kings at 16:00:00 Lima local time, which directly corresponds to Midnight in Jerusalem, Israel.  This event is a discovery that is a scientifically verifiable (WP:VERIFY) date, time and location, so it doesn't really qualify as some primary research (WP:NOR).  This event is simply presented neutrally (WP:NPOV) as an event that occurred at a specific date, time and primary location to lead people to investigate the unique solar system event for themselves, using the sources cited (WP:CITE).  I simply did my very best to closely adhere to the Wikipedia Five Pillars (WP:5P).  Please put it back in and improve upon it if you can, but please don't kill good information for others more interested than yourself.  --Eric R. Meyers (Ermeyers) (talk) 16:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed subtitle "Unseen history" 

message: There is in fact a definite limit to the city which is the Municipalidad Metropolitana de Lima (Metropolitan Municipality of Lima) This is the official limit however most residents only include 30 of the 43 districts actually part of the city of Lima.
Vivaperucarajo 04:46, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  No definite limit 

message: Substituted at 15:15, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: Is it OK if I remove the section on the Japanese embassy hostage crisis? That should serve to shorten it a little. Any objections? --Rcgy 20:12, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree.-- Walter Humala - Emperor of West Wikipedia| wanna Talk? 21:18, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead section too long? 

message: as done with "Paris" to "Paris, France", lets move "Lima" to "Lima, Peru". -- Walter Humala - Emperor of West Wikipediawanna Talk? 04:55, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My mistake, there was no paris article moving. -- Walter Humala - Emperor of West Wikipediawanna Talk? 04:59, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Let's move the article 

message: The request is based on the principal that the common denominator, per the new category UTC-5 demonstrates that cities generally have the state or province name. Take for example Ottawa which should redirect to Ottawa, Ontario and not vis-versa. This will help when categorizing cities. --CyclePat 00:39, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No. Lima the city is administratively the same as Lima the province and is independent (not part of) of Lima the department. --Polaron | Talk 01:31, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps you may be able to also help out with these other city which I believe are from South America. Request moves. Thank you. --CyclePat 03:36, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Since Lima is a Capital City it doesn't need a comma and its state or country (like Los Angeles, California). So please don't move this.-- Walter Humala Godsave him! (wanna Talk?) 04:45, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Automated Request Move 

message: I've been editing this for many months, and I can't notice order nor manual of style here. So I started to order sections as in the Los Angeles, California article. That won't be easy, many subtopics are missing so please give me a hand. Thanks. -- Walter Humala Godsave him! (wanna Talk?) 04:45, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Expanding 

message: Hi, I don't think that picture of a slum is good for Lima; of course, there are slums in every big city around the world, but instead of uploading those pictures, some others should be published, the historical center, the beaches, the museums, the churches of Lima. There's no doubt someone with a false sense of reality and a very low self-esteem is managing these pictures, just a comment dude... peace!
hi, I've found these pictures (from commons) of shanty towns in Lima, i don't know wheter it would be fine to add.--Andersmusician 02:49, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why not? --Victor12 03:05, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Who or what is Pompeyo? (written on the walls)? AirOdyssey (Talk) 16:49, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Who knows, but it might be bad propagando to post these pictures, maybe. --201.230.6.137 19:26, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The left-most house with "Pompeyo" written on it looks like it also has "FIM" written on its side. FIM would be the Independent Moralizing Front. Perhaps Pompeyo was a candidate on their list. --Descendall (talk) 08:52, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

text: I am sorry if I have frightened or offended someone in any way, it was not my intention. But to describe the poor living situations you have to put some pictures too. The pictures however are 10 and almost 30 years old (and not technically good). It can maybe also be dificult to get some pictures, as this is no "tourist-district" and you are recommended not to show any camera (in fact not to show anything). I guess the places do not look the same today. If you visit the same areas during diferent times you will be aware of a great activity, that in around 20 years in many cases will form a decent way of living, all depending the circumstances of course. But the first steps will be really harsh, lacking water, energy and anything. All is expansion in an uncontrollably way, for some years around 500-600 persons coming each day to Lima. (Pompeyo must by/must have been a local candidate for mayor or something like that, I do not recall, I just did choose a picture with no name of any political party on) Xauxa 07:45, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Although this is not a forum: "this is gonna happen always here" --Andersmusician VOTE 01:07, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it doesn't make sense to post picture which are 10, 20 or 30 years old.  Lima is diferent from twenty years ago.
If someone search for Lima, they want to see how it is right now. Probably a little of history and some tourism information.  --Chalaco01 (talk) 17:43, June 29 2008 (UTC)
There are a few recent pictures on www.peraleswaterproject.org that represent the not so modern areas of Lima.  If someone wants to incorporate them, I believe I could get the necessary permission.  FYI, Perales is a suburb of Lima. Hjg001 (talk) 20:26, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some shocking pictures I've found 

message: Hi, I've noticed there's no history section where I was plannig to add some historical maps. I'll try to make an effort on starting it --Andersmusician $ 02:55, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  History section 

message: Hi, I've uploaded u new version of a climate chart for Lima as a vector graphics image. Data is from climate-charts will this one be an improvement on the current one with the german text? AgainErick 23:56, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks much better and definately an improvement. I'm not sure about the background color, though. Something whiter might look better. Your chart features the average precipiation... could it also include the average temperature? It's nice that it includes the Köppen climate category for Lima. --Victor12 02:06, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice AgainErick but I just think the background would be better in white color, and the whole picture height reduced.--Andersmusician VOTE 04:59, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

text: On a second look, 7 mm is not the average precipitation. Maybe it should be 0.7 mm? --Victor12 12:38, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: New version uploaded. Reduced height and added averages. ErickAgain 22:39, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would yet prefer its width to be increased, and the bar colors to a brighter non-blue color & still changing picture's frame color to gray. Hope you fill my request, thanks--Andersmusician VOTE 22:48, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is it for today.ErickAgain 23:16, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Seems very good to me. Do we have a consensus for its use? Anders? --Victor12 02:48, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Speaking about climate many "city" articles have templates to show the average high/low temperatures and rainfall year round on a monthly basis. I've added this template from the New York City article's climate section as an example.--Jersey Devil 05:14, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Climate Chart 

message: Just to let you know :Image:1316535-1.jpg has been nominated for deletion at commons.--Andersmusician VOTE 02:33, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Can someone 'retake' this picture? is taken from a building or maybe from an airplane? Which picture shall we use as main skyline image in the infobox. ErickAgain 22:51, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I suggest we remove the satellite image also. It's credits say it's a NASA picture but i'm sure it's been edited to include the text "Lima Golf Club". No need to include that on the image. It's not a picture of the center of town either. What's the relevance to include Lima Golf Club in the Lima article (twice) anyway?--ErickAgain 22:51, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, seems like undue weight. --Victor12 23:53, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image for deletion 

message: I don't think we should have two maps on the infobox. As far as I know every city article has just one map of the city itself and its inmediate surroundings, not of the whole country. What does everybody else thinks? --Victor12 21:25, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, just one locator map of lima within its surroundings. Btw, this will not be the current map, because this one shows Lima Province and Callao within Lima Region. Both Lima prov. and Callao region are not part of Lima reg.--ErickAgain 22:12, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe you came out with this because of matters of space, I propose to create a map showing both scales (country & regional). Example :image:Map_of_Florida_highlighting_Miami.png --Andersmusician VOTE 17:52, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem is that, as Eric pointed out, Lima is not part of the Lima Region. A map of the province of Lima would be enough, I think. --Victor12 18:05, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right on that, although I think some map like this one of Miami shows some spatial reference for people who don't know where Lima met area is.--Andersmusician VOTE 00:22, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, we can use the lower left pacific part of a lima province map for showing a small detail map of peru showing the location of Lima within Peru.--ErickAgain 13:14, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Based on the locator map on the Peru article this is a first attempt for a similar one for Lima.--ErickAgain 22:25, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Nice, however I think it would be better to reduce border thickness & reduce circle's size --Andersmusician VOTE 02:47, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Next try: SouthAm mini-locator map among other changes--ErickAgain 20:07, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks great, though I'm not sure if we should use a map of South America instead of a map of Peru. --Victor12 20:11, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Choice of two, changed mini locator map to peru map.--ErickAgain 20:34, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I like the second one better. It seems more appropiate to locate the city within the country rather than the whole region. The locator box within Peru looks quite accurate. Great job! Let's see now what other people think --Victor12 20:39, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think this is excellent, maybe one little more addition: adding a coastal border of the mini Peru.--Andersmusician VOTE 16:17, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As in "adding the Pacific Ocean" or as in "adding maritime borders with neighboring countries"? --Victor12 16:31, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: oops, the second one, adding maritime borders of Chile & Ecuador--Andersmusician VOTE 17:41, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

text: That might be somewhat contentious, check Chilean-Peruvian Maritime Dispute of 2006--2007. --Victor12 18:02, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry I would've never meant to have maritime borders, instead just the coast of neighbooring countries, so basic spatial reference remains --Andersmusician VOTE 00:12, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Maps in the infobox 

message: Another article on Lima Lima Metropolitan Area, should these be merged?--ErickAgain 00:06, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I personally think not, most large cities' articles have another one on its met. area, since it incorporated other locations which formally don't include the city jurisdiction. However this may be tricky since there are not much legatlities here I think --Andersmusician VOTE 00:14, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lima Metropolitan Area 

message: Why is this article tagged with "This article documents a current event".  Lima is not a current event.  They had an earthquake tonight, one of hundreds in the country's history, but only one other is mentioned in this article.  Why is tonight's so significant?  Because it is the fist major one since Wikipedia was invented?  Why is there no mention of the 1974 earthquake, which was worse than this one?  Why do you feel the need to be the first to update this page with this breaking news?  Does it make you feel important?   And why on Earth would anyone include the canceled tsunami warning in this article?  This isn't CNN - in a month, no one will remember the canceled tsunami warning, yet you feel it needs to be in the Lima article as part of Lima's history?  You people who feel it so necessary to update Wikipedia articles as soon as you can with breaking news stories do a great disservice to these articles. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gr8deadfan75 (talk • contribs).
:I agree, if anything it should have a short mention but not it's own section as it did before and which I have removed. That kind of "breaking news" is meant for Wikinews not Wikipedia.--Jersey Devil 05:15, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia is not a news outlet 

message: Is it really necessary to have a picture of the Marriott Hotel on this page? It seems more like an advertisement to me. I don't think the Marriott Hotel holds much significance to Miraflores or Lima in general other than being the target of bombings a few years back. The Larco Museum in Pueblo Libre is a unique place in Lima. The museum itself sits atop a pre-Columbian pyramid and is housed in an 18th century colonial. The museum also hosts the largest private collection of pre-columbian art in the world. I find this much more significant than and American hotel chain. Any thoughts? Here's the picture I'm thinking of posting---> Lyndsayruell 21:29, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that the Marriott pic is not necessarily the best one for this section. However, I don't think the Larco Museum pic is appropriate either. The Marriott pic is in the "Districts" section, a pic of a museum does not represent anything on how Lima districts are. Lima museums are mentioned in the "Culture" section, that's were such a pic should go. But, as you can see, that section is already filled up with pics. --Victor12 04:41, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Marriott Hotel??

message: Perhaps it would be worth to insert an external link reference to the website 3dlatinamerica.com. There are a lot of excellent images of Lima in 3 Dimensions.
Regards.
Michael  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.218.157.212 (talk) 19:15, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  3D images of Latinamerica - ca. 100 images of Lima 

message: Hi, I want to propose people to find a more suitable pic for the Main Infobox, since the one currently there blurry and buildings are very dark, guess pic was shot at at relatively bad moment of the day. Do you you think we still need a skysline, or an image of important spots?--Andersmusician VOTE 20:42, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, we need a better pic. The Abancay avenue pic is quite nice but I'm not sure if it should go in the infobox. The problem with the large area pics is that none of them show the full complexity of the city. A wider shot might be required for that, maybe something like the Acho pic. Unfortunately, this pic is kind of blurry. So until we get a better panoramic picture I think we should use one of the landmark ones. Maybe the Cathedral, it is one of the earliest buildings of the city (even if it has been rebuilt several times) and it looks quite nice. --Victor12 (talk) 21:19, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: well, actually really big cities show certain parts only in main INFOBOX pic (the most notable place, or theme: see New York(Any tall building), Moscow(Kremlin), [[Sao Paulo(tall buildings[new theme over favelas])]]) but yeah meanwhile we could use landmark since Lima isnt the same everywhere. I propose "Plaza de Armas", just think the church may not be neutral (religion)--Andersmusician VOTE 03:58, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

text: yes its true , a skyline would be deftinively better user:andersmusician--201.230.5.86 (talk) 15:57, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Main Picture

message: Several arguments have been made about displaying all aspects of Lima, including shanty towns.  I have been critical of this, and I know that there is merely 1 picture of slums in the outskirts of Lima...so not a big deal in the grand scheme, but I went exploring.  
Bogotá, Colombia
La Paz, Bolivia
Quito, Ecuador
México D.F., México
Caracas, Venezuela
Montevideo, Uruguay
Asunción, Paraguay
Santiago, Chile
NOT ONE photo of a slum...NOT ONE.  My point of contention is simple, people already know that Latin America is a developing region, many, I'm sure, would look up Lima EXPECTING to find photos of misery...what would be informative would be to show them that this is not always the case, or not even mostly the case.  Any thoughts? Rafajs77 (talk) 09:19, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The article has a wide variety of pics showing different aspects of the city. Slums are an important part Lima, lots of people leave in them. Thus, they should be shown, not hidden in an encyclopedic article. Remember this is not a travel guide. --Victor12 (talk) 15:17, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey Victor!  I agree that the article shows a variety of aspects of the city of Lima.  I think this is good.  Though I don't know what the comment about the "travel guide" is about, since travel guides show shanty towns too (see Lonely Planet).  I guess I am uncomfortable with the notion that we are somehow holding to standards for wikipedia when there are so many examples of places where you DON'T see what we show here.  Add to the above list: London, Paris, New York City, Los Angeles, Seattle, Shanghai, Johannesburg, Sucre, Brasilia, Guadalajara, Medellin, Sao Paolo, and even other cities in Peru like Arequipa, Trujillo and Chiclayo...NOT ONE  photo of a slum, or an economically run-down area.  Rafajs77 (talk) 16:07, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Then the problem is in those articles, not in this one. Hopefully they will be held accountable for the missing pics when they try to run for featured article status. Greetings, --Victor12 (talk) 16:56, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Victor is correct. And furthermore anyone who has been behind removing those pics for the last few months should stop it immediately. It is basically long-term abuse that has given us all headaches in trying to deal with it.--Jersey Devil (talk) 18:16, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: O.K. I think I can be at peace with that, but I know that many people who contribute to this page also contribute to pages for other Latin American countries (and other countries around the world generally) and thus I hope that when you have ocassion you hold those other places to the same standard that you do so.  I have no photographs of that sort to add, but I imagine there must be some already uploaded.  Oh, and I agree that deletions without consultation are innane and rude. Rafajs77 (talk) 20:14, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

text: Here's the pic Lima#Demographics. Thanks for your comments. --Victor12 (talk) 00:50, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Slums? 

message: Hola, como estan todos amigos de wikipedia, soy peruano primeramente y la verdad muy enamorado de esta bella ciudad (donde naci)revisando la version inglesa sobre Lima la verdad que me parece deficiente, como que falta mas informacion, por mi parte trato de expandirla, pero me gustaria que la mejoren, otro asunto que la verdad me indigna es que pongan demasiadas fotos de los asentamientos humanos, segun ellos es una parte representativa de la ciudad, yo creo que toda ciudad tiene sus problemas, pero de ahi a querer resaltar lo malo, la verdad que hasta es denigrante, no se si seran personas antiperuanas(por los comentarios) , Lima tiene lugares tan bonitos comp ara presentar a ver si pueden poner mas fotos en la version inglesa y la tratan de expandir, Muchas Gracias  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.60.255.62 (talk) 19:56, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: use english my friend--190.43.242.145 (talk) 03:02, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: BTW: there's only ONE single bad/ugly picture in the article XD --190.43.242.145 (talk) 03:04, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't even try (Ni intentes)...the photos of the shanty town stays, because as it has been explained to me (after my various rants), they are presenting the totality of Lima in this article.  However, if you're the person responsible for some of the photo additions...I think I like them.  Including the collage in the infobox. Rafajs77 (talk) 03:43, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

text: I've blocked the user for 1 month and will be giving 3 month blocks to IPs who edit war on this article from now on. We don't have to deal with this.--Jersey Devil (talk) 16:32, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: unknown person

message: Because of persistent edit warring by what seems to be one user on multiple IPs I've indefinitely semi-protected the article. Sorry to all the new and unregistered users, if you have any suggestions on how we should change the article please discuss below, however user's shouldn't have to put up with persistent vandalism that has continued over the span of several months.--Jersey Devil (talk) 10:20, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You can always explain what you want done, and a registered editor can take care of it. The article was vandalised by people with IP addresses that look nearly exactly like yours for so long that there's not a chance that anyone would unprotect the article to allow you to edit it.—Kww(talk) 04:05, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: And you can always sign up for an account and stick around for awhile, then you will be able to edit the article yourself. Either way though, it's always best to discuss your changes here on the talk page first! Franamax (talk) 06:25, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article Semi-Protected Indefinitely 

message: Hey, please spare me the comment about travel guides and consider my point substantively.  I have been watching this article as it develops and have seen positive changes, negative changes, things I agreed with and things I disagreed with.  All these in-between steps are mostly irrelevant to me now.
What I am concerned with is the finished product...wasn't this in the improvement drive?  It is such a dull article for a city with over 400 years of history.  Specifically:
1) The fact that apparently consensus can't be reached regarding an iconic image to locate in the infobox (it seems to change every month).
2) Not enough photographs are provided to illustrate the text, and some, like the satellite photo and the old map of the city, are just inconsequential to understanding any of the substantive points in the text.
3) There are pictures without any context, like the intersection photo...where is that?  what district?  what streets?  Or the picture of the Tico under transportation?  Where are the buses, the freeways?
I don't know...isn't there a way to strike a better balance between being objectively informative and making the information accessible and appealing to the user?  Rafajs77 (talk) 21:45, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I also think there's an excess of pictures, this excess is in some situations resulting in image "stackups" (something we should avoid according to the Manual of Style). Additionally, :Image:Areasoflima.png is unsourced, according to who San Miguel, Magdalena, Pueblo Libre, Jesús María, Lince, San Isidro, etc. are grouped as the "Commercial Area"? the same question goes for the districts grouped as the "Beach areas"; a reliable source is needed such as information from INEI or the Municipalidad Metropolitana de Lima. And why is the Infobox World Heritage Site placed in the "Tourism" subsection? I think that infobox shouldn't be in this article because is too specific. --Aucahuasi (talk) 14:34, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  The article is a bit lame 

message: Man!  I tried inserting a photo then reverted when I noticed it kind of screwed up the page layout only to scroll down and find that the article has been populated (overpopulated) by photos.  It is too much I think.  For example one image (the Via Expresa) is from Flickr and it is grainy and has poor resolution, and it isn't even necessary because there is another via expresa photo below it.
The map of the "extent of control Lima maintained during the Colonial period" is, well, funny.  That control was rather tenuous to say the least.
The FORMER banco de credito headquarters?  Why?
The Golf park under society and culture seems odd, as does the skyline of Miraflores under sister cities, and the headquarters of the Andean community of nations should be under a heading of international associations (if it exists, or people want to add one), not under government.
Some of the images are great, thanks to whomever added them, but some seem like they don't belong.  Anyone object to them being removed?  Or at least moved around? Rafajs77 (talk) 21:29, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I also think there's an excess of pictures, this excess is in some situations resulting in image "stackups" (something we should avoid according to the Manual of Style). Additionally, :Image:Areasoflima.png is unsourced, according to who San Miguel, Magdalena, Pueblo Libre, Jesús María, Lince, San Isidro, etc. are grouped as the "Commercial Area"? the same question goes for the districts grouped as the "Beach areas"; a reliable source is needed such as information from INEI or the Municipalidad Metropolitana de Lima. And why is the Infobox World Heritage Site placed in the "Tourism" subsection? I think that infobox shouldn't be in this article because is too specific. --Aucahuasi (talk) 14:34, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too much 

message: These are the images I think should be deleted either because they are of very poor quality, not related to text, redundant, or unnecessary.
image: Location ViceroyaltyPeru.png
image: Limc1860.jpg
image: Andeancommunity.jpg
image: Lima Peru Temple.jpg
image: Antiguo banco de credito.jpg
image: Lima Golf Club.jpg
image: Comandosur.jpg
image: via expresa skyline.JPG
image: Sanmartinplaza.jpg
Additionally, at the end of the article, the costa verde skyline shot (since it was finally confirmed apparently) should be the skyline shot in the infobox, instead of the night shot.  Again, what do people think? Rafajs77 (talk) 12:54, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Images to delete 

message: In the right images, it says: Bottom right: Palace of Justice, Bottom left: Plaza San Martin skyline. The picture of the left is the "Palace of Justice" and the right one is "Plaza San Martin skyline".
I am peruvian so i know very well that.
Hackycrema--Hackycrema (talk) 20:01, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Swapped left/right description in the banner caption. --ErickAgain (talk) 11:36, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  picture error 

message: What is the difference between the two?  I thought the metropolitan council was the provincial council. Are you sure that the provincial council is not the council of the unconnected region of Lima? --Criticalthinker (talk) 05:25, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think both are the same thing. I found some information on the Metropolitan Municipality of Lima website that it may be useful for you. Aucahuasi (talk) 05:19, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If that is the truth, then one of them needs to be removed from the infobox because that is quite confusing as it is listed.  It seems to imply that there is both a municipal and provincial council.  If they are in fact one and the same thing, then all that we need to make reference to is the municipal council. --Criticalthinker (talk) 10:08, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Metropolitan Municipality of Lima vs. Provincial Council of Lima

message: I think the article is rather long. For instance, the "History" section is longer than its main article! (History of Lima). The same goes for the "Subdivisions" section. According to Wikipedia:Summary style information in the sections should be a summary of their respective main article. For these reasons I think the article needs to be shortened. --Aucahuasi (talk) 05:56, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Aucahuasi, the "History" section has grown out of all proportion. IMHO the problem is that the text tends to wander out of its main subject which is the city itself. For instance, the description of the conflict between Almagro and Pizarro and the explanation on the social order of colonial Peru are quite irrelevant in this article; they are a better fit for the Viceroyalty of Peru article. Wikipedia recomends using a Wikipedia:Summary style in its articles because very long articles are problematic. I think we should apply this guideline to the "History" section specially since we already have a History of Lima article. --Victor12 (talk) 02:01, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I couldn't agree more, we should keep in mind that Lima is the current Peru Collaboration Effort, so our work should focus on improving this article to featured article status. There's a lot of work to do, perhaps it would be a good idea to follow the example of other featured articles about cities such as Delhi, Dhaka, Erie, Pennsylvania, Kochi, India, Minneapolis, Tumbler Ridge, British Columbia, etc which don't have its sections split into subsections. --Aucahuasi (talk) 19:09, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article length 

message: Just checking, or seeking opinions on this...I know the article has more serious issues.  The section on language links to an article (Peruvian Coastal Spanish) that does not have verifiable citations or references.  Statements like these seem non-encyclopedic:
"the lack of strong innotations as found in many other regions of the Spanish-speaking world. It is heavily influenced by the Spanish spoken in Castile as throughout the colonial era, the colonial Spanish nobility was based in Lima, of which most originated from Castile. [62] Limean Spanish is also characterized by the lack of voseo, a trait present in the dialects of many other Latin American countries. This is due to that voseo was primarily utilized by the lower socioeconomic classes of Spain" (emphasis mine).
This reads more like a historical account of high society in Lima...at best.  At worst, it strikes me as a bit of elitist nationalism.  Before someone jumps on my comments, I am originally from Lima.  Rafajs77 (talk) 19:54, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Language 

message: The demographics section is longer (and thus contains more information) than the main article: Demographics of Lima. This doesn't seem right. Shouldn't it just be a summary of what's in the main article and not contain any information that isn't in the main article? Aidanb (talk) 21:51, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: yep the article is slowly becoming a mess, seems people from the spanish wikipedia are editing this more often. --Andersmusician NO 05:07, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Demographics section longer than the main article 

message: I lived for some time (1 year) in Lima, as far as I remember the Embassy is NOT found in San Borja but in Santiago de Surco (or short Surco), in Montericco (subdistrict of Surco). The same goes for Golf Club (in Surco). (I lived about 300 meter from the Embassy :-) )Link of US Embassy: http://lima.usembassy.gov/contact.html
The article mentions la Molina, but there is, in my opinion, not to many interesting things to be found there, while Surco has: Golf Club, Jockey Plaza (A very large, kinda fancy shopping mall), horse tracks (Jockey plaza), American Embassy, and several university (UNiversidad de Lima, UPC). La Molina has the Agricultural State University (UNALM), Moliplaza (a small mall) and is a very nice residential area for middle to upperclass (although of course each middle to upperclass districts has its bad parts as well..). I wouldn't say La Molina is wealthy without including at least Surco. It has a lot of wealthy areas like is golf de inca (close to golf club), Casuarinas, Montericco, El Polo (in front of US embassy) and maybe support it with a citation?
I am not someone that ever contributed to Wiki, dont plan to write pages or something. I just thought this information should be out there, based on my personal experience, so some people can check it out and maybe correct it. They are all suggestions (althought the one of the Embassy is a strong suggestion ;-) )
Cheers,
Dutch girl  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.211.52.91 (talk) 11:12, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  American Embassy in San Borja?! 

message: I requested page protection over the edit warring over removing a picture from this page. This comment is per the admin request who protected the page. Hires an editor (talk) 12:19, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: the issue has been assesed several times with the same outcome, now on the archives.--Andersmusician NO 20:59, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page Protection 

message: Please do not put citations to nonscholarly web sites on articles, as you did on the "pope" article. Leadwind (talk) 20:46, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  nonscholarly web site