Talk:Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse

message: I made some links.- We have an article for Mary Laffoy. We don't seem to have one for Justice Sean Ryan, Judge of the High Court (per http://www.childabusecommission.com/rpt/preface.php ). Sean Ryan is a disamb page; he is apparently not included there.- I linked the "types of abuse ... included in the Commission's mandate", however, "Neglect" is a disamb page. We also have Abuse and Child abuse, which are also disamb-type pages or very general.-- 201.37.230.43 (talk) 16:37, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Links / Articles needed

message: The coverage of this that I'm seeing in the general press seems to emphasize that this is a "Catholic Church" issue. Our article hardly mentions the Catholic Church. How should we handle this for NPOV and complete coverage of the facts? -- 201.37.230.43 (talk) 16:41, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I was wondering whether to add a new section (or a sub-section of the report section), with a table listing the main schools that were investigated and the Catholic orders responsible.  In addition to mentioning the general catholic angle, this is where the relative volume of Christian Brothers schools could be mentioned, and other statistical stuff.  If you'd like to get involved, it might help if you create an account here: that will mean you have a permanent name and a talk page where I can reach you. - Pointillist (talk) 16:51, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That sounds like a good idea. You may be able to get extra info from Abuse by priests in Roman Catholic orders. ~Asarlaí 01:10, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Mention of Catholic Church in our article

message: Lead formerly said "The Commission's report said testimony had demonstrated beyond a doubt that the entire system treated children more like prison inmates and slaves than people".
This distinction between "prison inmates and slaves" versus "people" bothered me, so I checked the cite to see if this was perhaps a quote.
It is - the original BBC source cited ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8059826.stm ) says, "The commission said overwhelming, consistent testimony from still-traumatized men and women, now in their 50s to 80s, had demonstrated beyond a doubt that the entire system treated children more like prison inmates and slaves than people with legal rights and human potential." (my italics)
This makes much better sense to me, so I added this, however our sentence is awfully close to the BBC original.
If the Commission report actually says something like this, let's quote and cite that, rather than BBC. Otherwise, we need to either reword this, or quote (and cite) BBC directly.
Thanks. -- 201.37.230.43 (talk) 00:03, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Problem with phrasing and quote

message: The timing of the problems is somewhat unclear. Is the abuse substanially ongoing? Had it largely died out by the time the commission was set up? Etc Nil Einne (talk) 07:44, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: This is quote from the official web site: "The period covered by the Investigation Committee Inquiry, ‘the relevant period’, is from 1936 to the present. However, the complaints come mostly from a period during which large scale institutionalisation was the norm, which was, in effect, the period between the Cussen Report (1936) and the Kennedy report (1970)". PeterClarke 14:27, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Cussen Report (1936), Kennedy report (1970). Hmm, redlinks. Do we want to create stubs or redirects for these? -- 201.37.230.43 (talk) 15:27, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Timing 

message: At this point I'm going to go ahead and add the template for WikiProject Catholicism to this page. It seems to me that this is appropriate.Their mission is stated to be "improving Wikipedia's coverage of topics related to the Catholic Church".If anyone feels that discussion of this is necessary, let's discuss.-- 201.37.230.43 (talk) 14:13, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well it does relate to the Catholic Church... --candle•wicke 18:18, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: adding WikiProject Catholicism

message: Our section "Compensation deal" says:"Religious organisations involved have openly refused to reopen compensation negotiation proceedings."I think that we need to add some very specific lists of religious orders and organizations to the article, as there are many which are not involved in this matter in any way, some which have been found culpable, presumably others which have been investigated and found not culpable or only minimally culpable, etc. Additionally, and in the context of compensation, some have specifically acted to block compensation, while presumably there are others which have not.My interest here is NPOV and fairness - let us name the specific names, and by doing so also avoid implication of guilt against the blameless.I've taken a quick look at the actual report online and have not found this information obvious there. I don't plan to read the report in detail. Is there anyone who's familiar with the report (specifically the breakdown of religious orders and organizations) who could add this? (With cites, obviously.)Thanks. -- 201.37.230.43 (talk) 00:53, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Which religious organizations?

message: I am boldly adding the template of WikiProjectPolitics to this page. Discussion is welcome. -- 201.37.230.43 (talk) 15:15, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: WikiProjectPolitics

message: Added template of WikiProject Law. Seems appropriate to me. Discussion? -- 201.37.230.43 (talk) 12:52, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: WikiProject Law

message: There are major errors and distortions in the current text of the article which need amending. More on this later. Xandar 23:31, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you be more specific please? Given that this article is essentially a summary of a public report and the main reactions to it, there's no reason why it can't be 100% accurate and scrupulously referenced. - Pointillist (talk) 17:53, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

text: Thanks for your reply.  From what I remember—I did most of the early work on this article up to 11:26 on 21st May (this version)—the BBC words were an accurate précis of different parts of the report.  I'll try to find the exact references next weekend.  I entirely agree that the lead should be a summary of the article, the current version is too long and the fourth para relies too much on press reports of unchallenged claims to the Confidential committee.  It would probably help to separate the two committees into different sections: that would give context for some Investigation ctee (Vol.2) statistics and a representative selection of the Confidential ctee allegations.  The article would also benefit from more explanation of the late 1990s background to the commission and coverage of Mary Laffoy's 2003 resignation. - Pointillist (talk) 21:58, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You both make good points. I have added Laffoy's resignation date and am working on a background section.Red Hurley (talk) 16:15, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Major Errors

message: I've added parts on the historical aspects that may need trimming, down to Judge Laffoy's resignation, and also more on the 2002 CORI deal. Largely cited from the report and from Bruce Arnold's book The Irish Gulag; NB Arnold always spells Laffoy as Lafoy, which is irritating.Red Hurley (talk) 14:19, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Background section

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