Talk:Brahmavihara

message: __TOC__
Brahma-viharas fused with Brahmavihara. Article in need of a cleanup. --Gakuro 09:56, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

message: I've reverted TonyMPNS addition of "The Buddha himself did not specify directing the apramanas towards oneself" because I found this text (for Mudita Meditation) saying "He should then break down the barriers by means of impartiality towards the four, that is, towards these three and himself".  I do not have access to a copy of the Visuddhimagga, but if this translation is "correct", and if it says similarly for the other Brahma Viharas, then the note is uneccesary.   See also similar discussion on Talk:Metta. I also do not think that what we read in the Pali Canon and in the other scriptures was what the Buddha actually said, but rather what was said, heard, remembered, recited, and eventually, after having gone through many generations of people, riciting to eachother, was written down, and copied many times, again by people with their own views and ideas of what might actually have happened (or even worse, with political agendas).  What the Buddha said is almost certainly somehting like what is in the texts, but using them as word-by-word transcript of discourses is not something that I'd like to do.  So, whether or not he said to direct the Metta, Karuna, Mudita, and Uppekha towards oneself or not will not be known, but some texts seems to point (at least partially) in that direction.  I'd love to have access to Buddhaghosa's source material... --- Andkaha(talk) 16:08, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I commited a change which mentions the source and age of the practice as described in the article. Would you be happy with this change Tony?  In stead of saying "the Buddha did not say", I say "Buddhaghosa says", more or less.  --- Andkaha(talk) 18:28, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

text: The change you outline, Tony, is likely to attract a "citation needed" tag. We would need some source who has come to the conclusion that self-directed apramana is missing in the sutras. If you just have come to that conclusion yourself, that is original research. Moonsell (talk) 14:05, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Directing to oneself and what the Buddha *actually* said 

message: * I am getting some sort of error where "File:Headline textInsert non-formatted text here--208.58.76.254 (talk) 19:29, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't get those problems. Moonsell (talk) 14:09, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: gobbledygook

message: I did an extensive cleanup. As part of it, I replaced "brahmaviharas" with the English term, "four immeasurables" in many places, to conform with Wikipedia's policy on avoiding jargon in your face. I hope this is useful. If "immeasurables is not the best term, perhaps others would like to substitute "sublime attitudes" or "sublime states" without sacrificing the other parts of the cleanup. "Immeasurables" is just the term I know, myself and can relate to. Moonsell (talk) 14:00, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: the abodes/residence of brahma...--Elvenmuse (talk) 22:29, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: "Brahmaviharas"

message: The sutta on the benefits of loving-kindness mentioned in the Anguttara Nikaya, ends with a final benefit "(11) if one does not penetrate further, one fares on to the brahma world."(p. 1573 of Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation). This implies that the practice of loving-kindness can be a foundation that finally culminates in Nibbana/Nirvana. I am not certain whether there is any secondary literature that discusses this sutta, as it may be interpreted to contradict the passages mentioned in this article that the Brahmaviharas do not culminate in Nibbana.--S Khemadhammo S Khemadhammo (talk) 14:20, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: If you are uncertain whether a source exists for a "implied interpretation or conclusion", such conclusions are original research and inappropriate for this article or anywhere else in wikipedia. Find a reliable source first, then summarize it if WP:Due. Please see WP:OR and WP:RS. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 05:34, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: My main question was whether this sutta was ever discussed in secondary literature. I don't have any opinion about any issues with regard to this article.S Khemadhammo (talk) 15:42, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Penetrate further

message: This is an issue with all 4 hence I prefer to discuss here.
a] Only the Mudita lemma had this, quite useful, section (near and far enemy qualities are used a lot in descriptions on these qualities).
b] The text was not really complete (it missed one of the two far enemies).
What I did was
c] Fix that text to make in line with Vishudimagga text, which basically is the source (itself extracted from lots of sutras and Abidhamma text by our historic friend 2000 years back in a tropical island not far from India).
d] Added that text as reference
e] As there both the 'near enemies' and 'far enemies' in Vishudhimagga are not always the clearest translation, used a link to an authorative Theravada site for alternate terms I use in the lemma.
If no objections/improvement/additions by 'around this weekend' I will repeat exact same trick, with of course creating the section, for Metta/Karuna/Upeksha lemmas.
Tnx,
Erikdr (talk) 12:35, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Near and far enemies in all 4 Immeasurables 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I knew about Mudita, from trying to describe the powerful feels I have felt that were the antithesis of schadenfreude. But now I have been able to set Mudita in context, and recognize what I have been working on in myself that: of Metta and Karuna. Albeit I need to learn to treat myself with more compassion and so apply the same understanding to all those around me. However, it is upekkha that I most sorely lack, and I am certain it would benefit me greatly. In many ways I am the antithesis of upekkha. But by being made aware of the existence of upekkha has helped me understand how stoic ideas might be integrate into my life. What your work in this article has given me is a framework of understanding, and a path into deeper research and greater understanding should I wish to take it. sadly all I can offer you in return is the wish for you all to have long, interesting and joy filled lives. Thanks again! X-mass (talk) 07:09, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Profound thanks for the article