Talk:Waldorf School

message: While criticism of Waldorf education is of course sometimes legitimate, consider suspect any organizations associated with the critic Dan Dugan, who is perhaps the chief organizer against Waldorf Schools.  See"Audio McCarthyism" a six-page article from "Stereophile" magazine, which presents Dugan as a user of McCarthyite deception and smear tactics. 
Talk about smear tactics! The Stereophile article has nothing to do with Waldorf education--it's a hysterical reaction to my busting of consumer fraud in the "high end" hi-fi business. The above paragraph is by Sune Nordwall, himself hysterical about anybody having the gall to criticize his cult's school. -Dan Dugan
The personalities of Dan Dugan and Sune Nordwall are not relevant to maintaining the article on Waldorf Schools. This is pure ad-hominem argument. Note that a warning that a person or organization is presenting false or misleading information about the subject may be appropriate, if accompanied by specific evidence of same, which could then be discussed. In the absence of that I intend to edit this irrelevant discussion out after allowing time for objection. (This comment and others in bold are by Abd.)
Links:
Waldorf Critics and Waldorf Survivors offer very personal views of individual schools by individuals who have been overly challenged by some aspect of Waldorf Education. No two Waldorf schools are identical in nature and the experiences of individuals vary. 
The individuals running these sites have very subjective and negative views on waldorf education. 
The sure do, I'm one of them. What's interesting is the problems that crop up at Waldorf schools all over the world. These indicate systemic problems.  -Dan Dugan
The last two paragraphs add nothing to the discussion. the first one simply repeats what was in the paragraph before, only with more highly charged language, and the second, while a little more relevant, still lacks specifics, and could be said about nearly any social movement.
Parents considering Waldorf for their children are encouraged to meet the individual teachers at the prospective Waldorf/Steiner school they would attend.
This should practically go without saying, and should apply to any form of education. It seems innocuous enough, however.
See also:
www.waldorfworld.net/waldorflist
(posted by 68.42.193.141)
So, are you saying that Waldorf advocacy sites are not very subjective? I think that people contemplating sending their kids to a Waldorf school should consider arguments from both sides. Rosemary Amey 05:21, 28 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Links to external sites

message: The articles posted anonymously above are a very convoluted defenses of the "context" which his remarks were made in. In fact the defense is undermined by the fact that he made a few other racist remarks between 1920 and 1923 which I found at http://lists.topica.com/lists/waldorf-critics/read/message.html?sort=&mid=1717610469
“[T]he representative people for the development of the consciousness soul, hence for what matters particularly in our age, is the Anglo-Saxon nation. The Anglo-Saxon people are those who through their whole organization are predisposed to develop the consciousness soul to a special degree. The prominent position occupied by the Anglo-Saxon nation in our time is indeed due to the fact that this nation is especially suited for the development of the consciousness soul.” (Steiner, 1921, Materialism and the Task of Anthroposophy. Trans. Maria St. Goar. Hudson, NY: Anthroposophic Press, 1987. p. 195)
“No doubt about it, the soul becomes corrupted through using the French language. . .It is also possible at the present time that the French will even ruin their own blood, the very element which has kept their language going as a corpse. That is a terrible thing the French people are doing to other people, the frightful cultural brutality of transplanting black people to Europe. It affects France itself worst of all. This has an incredibly strong effect on the blood, the race. This will substantially add to French decadence. The French nation will be weakened as a race.” (Steiner, Conferences with the Teachers of the Waldorf School in Stuttgart 1922 to 1923: Volume Three: Being the end of the Fourth Year. Trans. Pauline Wehrle. Forest Row, U.K.: Steiner Schools Fellowship Publications, 1988. pp. 87-88)
“The most characteristic sign of the time is the belief that when a group of individuals have set up some trashy proposition as a general program – such as the unity of all men regardless of race, nation or color, and so forth – something has been accomplished. Nothing has been accomplished except to throw sand into people’s eyes. Something real is attained only when we note the differences and realize what world conditions are.” (Steiner, 1920, Spiritual Science as a Foundation for Social Forms. Trans. Maria St. Goar. Ed. Alan Howard. New York: Anthroposophic Press, 1986. p. 122)
Sqgl (talk) 07:53, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yes, Racist 

message: http://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/107/
Is the above link really relevant? The linked article relates to a rather esoteric debate about hifi cables from 1992. It contains no references, direct or indirect to Waldorf education. It does however show that somebody once disagreed with "Dan Dugan's" (no suggestion that it is the Dan Dugan) ideas about stereo systems.
Why is this link inluded in an article about Waldorf schools?
:The link was included as other research has shown that it is the same D. Dugan, and in other venues his language and tactics regarding Waldorf Education have been similar.
::This seems like an ad-hominem arguement to me. Dugan may be an idiot- but are the points he make idiotic? In order to counter his criticisms it is necessary to publish them together with critiques of the points he raises by observers. By censoring and defaming Dugan, you merely lend him more credibility.--Fergie 10:14, 13 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why is this link inluded in this article? 

message: :Waldorf schools' pedagogy and practice have often been widely hailed for their creativity and intelligent design, not only by satisfied parents, but by independent educational experts.
Which is followed by two supporting quotes.  As an encyclopedia, Wikipedia should strive not to promote any entity.  I do not doubt that those quotes are true, and that it is factual to say that Waldorf schools have been positively "hailed."  But, while the existence of those quotes is factual, the quotes' meaning is not. They present what are, from any eye, opinions, not facts. As Wikipedia pledges to be free of ads and to contain only factual information, those opinions should be removed. ✈ James C. 03:51, 2005 Apr 25 (UTC)
P.S. Granted, I am a deviant. I also believe the vast majority of sentences starting with "many believe" should also be removed.  POV should not apply to mere personal opinions, but also those widely held.
:This is not only your opinion, it is the collective opinion of wikipedians- see the  wikipedia styleguide section on this
:--Fergie 08:37, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inappropriate