Talk:St. Mark's College (University of Adelaide)/Archive 1

message: Whoa! Lots of new additions to this section! Hey 143.216.49.250, any idea what year all those blokes were in college? If you can give me a roundabout date, I could check the college records and add some citations!--ABVS 05:08, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Notable Alumni

message: I'm not sure the list of committee presidents satisfies Wikipedia's guidelines for notability. I reckon the entire Committee section should be replaced with a section talking about the governance of the college (committee + admin) rather than being primarily a list of recently graduated students with no real importance at all.--Yeti Hunter 00:24, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Prose is always preferable to lists anyway.--cj | talk 03:26, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Committee Notability

message: This article does not cite any references or sources. For example, I have no proof any of the notable alumni actually attended this school or if they actually exist. If reliable sources are not provided for information in this article I will delete it. 14:03, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Judging by your previous edits and new user status, you are obviously just a stirrer. Please refrain from adding blatant vandalism to wikipedia. ABVS1936 15:04, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please read the verifiability page. It says, "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. "Verifiable" in this context means that any reader should be able to check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source." So please provide reliable references or sources for the information in the article or I will delete it. If the request for sources tag is removed again I will request arbitration. 15:59, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Much of the material (eg, "early days" and "Buildings and grounds") is from "St Mark's College: The Buildings and Grounds" by Gavin Walkley, much of the remainder (governance, events, accommodation, etc) is from the college website. I suggest you check the stated sources before claiming unsourcedness (existence of word??). In fact, the only unsourced statements are the notable alumni, which can be easily ascertained by reading past copies of the college yearbook, available at the St Mark's College Library (and perhaps at the University as well?) Anyone still at college keen on asking JB where to find a complete list of past members?--Yeti Hunter 04:16, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Further to that, this page has previously been rated by an administrator (User:Cyberjunkie?) and was not tagged as unsourced. --Yeti Hunter 04:18, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, it was assessed by Peripitus. But that's quite beside the point – assessments and administrators have no bearing whether an article lacks sources or not. Ostensibly, this article is unsourced. If the Walkely book and college website are the reliable sources used to write this article, then per verifiability considerations, they ought to be noted or cited as such.--cj | talk 04:30, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please do not remove the request for sources tag until the article has reliable sources cited. Please refer to the links in the previous post written by cj for guidance. Username nought 04:39, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I agree that it is somewhat silly, but the Wikipedia preference is to footnote individual statements, even if to the same source multiple times. The most relevant guideline is Wikipedia:Citing sources. Also, it should be possible to refer to the relevant page when citing the Walkley book.--cj | talk 05:32, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Will do. Yeti Hunter 05:36, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Citation style tag added because retrieval dates for website references need to be added. See citation and footnoting links inside citation style tag. Username nought 14:24, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: References and Sources

message: I remain appalled that before the Notable Alumni section, none of the references in this article are from sources independent of the College.
This reeks of WP:Schoolcruft to me (and, from the AfD, others). If only those associated with the college care enough to write about it then really, what makes anyone think the Governance (which is identical to the governance of any other on-campus accomodation), "Social scene, sports and traditions", or even most of what appears in "Accommodation" is encyclopedic?
Hint: If any section deserves a Primary Sources tag then question why it's there, or look to fix the issue through adding independent references (that is, ones which withstand challenge at an AfD). Garrie 00:08, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: How about references 2, 4, 5, 6, 12, 26 and 29? The only reason that there are so many references from the college website is due to the insistence that individual claims be cited. Be appalled if you must, but perhaps check that your claim is accurate first, and also consider being constructive and seeking independent sources on your own. Be assured, we're onto it.--Yeti Hunter 00:32, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have to agree with Yeti, the only reason there are so many references that come from the college is that a trolling campaign was waged against the article. Very few articles on W/P have this many sources or citations. AND by the way I have nothing to do with the college. Ozdaren 02:31, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Garrie, here you can find all the information relevant to the sources that have been cited to in this article that are "self published". Information taken from those "self-published sources and sources of questionable reliability may be used in articles about themselves" so long as they meet the criteria set out on that page. So be appalled all you like, but note that it is acceptable under those circumstances, and I would say especially so if the information can't be found elsewhere (correct me if I'm wrong, but that is the way I'm reading that Guideline). ABVS1936 10:44, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notability post AfD 

message: On Dit (volume 59 number 2, March 11 1991, page 9) has women entering St Marks in 1982. The article  is titled Primitive Practices at St Marks and is an exposé on the more misogynistic practices employed by the men of the college in 1991. Can this be used as a references for the date of women commencing at Marks?  Ozdaren 05:44, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd say that was fairly reliable, and I'm sure that, as the article itself is berating St. Mark's, no one else would object... And if they really wanted to, the article could surely still be accessed in the Adelaide Uni archives somewhere. ABVS1936 08:13, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Theres a great On Dit from the late 70s blasting StM for the Steeplechase, and theres a picture of the then Master firing a shotgun to start it! I can just imagine the bleating of the bleeding hearts.--Yeti Hunter 08:33, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've read that actually, I'd wager that JB probably has a copy, coz I reckon that's where I've read it. Will drop a word next time I see him. In the mean time, add that reference if you have it, Daren. YH, Steeplechase I'm happy to say will be returning to its former glory next semester, with yours truly at the helm - maybe we can get some media coverage and include that. ABVS1936 08:52, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Reference done. I actually have a hard copy at home. I didn't even know there was a St Marks reference in there. The article was written by a feminist writer. I came across it by accident today. Copies of On Dit can be viewed in the Barr Smith. Ozdaren 11:57, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Women at St Marks 

message: If anyone can find a reference for the Marksenfest citations in old papers etc please add them. I'm certain we get Gig Guide listings in both Rip It Up and the 'Tiser, and I know we had a few mentions on Triple J prior to and during the day of the 2005 'Fest. We can then confirm it as an annual event, and confirm that Evermore, a notable band, performed. Gurge07...(fingers crossed) ABVS1936 08:52, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The On Dit article mentions college female office bearers who are chosen at the first College Club meeting of the year. In 1991 there was a Hangover Chief (female responsible for the coffee at any time of night or day), Quartermistress (female condom dispenser) and College Dry-Cleaner (female whose duty it was to take and return dry cleaning). It also mentions college traditions including: Ponding, Alpine day (utlising the services of the gas truck) and Fresher's welcome.Ozdaren 12:12, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think 1991 was the year of the first Marksenfest, though I am not certain. It would be unlikely to be well known back then. More recent On Dits should certainly have mentions of it, but it would be better to find a reference from The Jays.--Yeti Hunter 23:21, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Love the Indiana reference there, Daren. Philacoat, "a tall, chiseled redheaded Australian" - long live the rusties! Fantastic! ABVS1936 01:21, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Marksenfest

message: Substituted at 15:51, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment