Talk:Ohrana

message: I suggest we concentrate on several things: 1) you must avoid usage of the word "Grecoman", for it is offensive to many Greeks, and i agree with that it is offencive. 2) Second, Ohrana militia never attacked the peaceful "Grecomans" (better say pro-Greek Slavophones), Vlachs and Pontians. Vlachs had their own colaborationist organization organized by the Italians - they called themselves centurions. 3) As for this privatly made ease - [IMRO Militia And Volunteer Battalions 1943-1944 http://www.makedonskatribuna.com/IMRO.doc] which is filled with hatread and xenophobia, the rules stated in Wikipedia:Reliable sources, and better here: Wikipedia:Reliable_sources#Extremist_sources say that these things can not be used as a reliable source. BUT still I am not against using it as an external link, even as an reference, but we mustn't say Grecomans, or that "ohrana attacked grecomans". Ohrana only attacked communists. 4) Neither Ohrana, nor the Macedonian Committee in Kastoria organized newspapers or schools in Bulgarian. Schools in Bulgarian were organized only in the Bulgarian occupied zone of east Greek Macedonia and West Thrace. 5) IMRO seeded to exist in the late 30's when the Bulgarian government banned the organization and destroyed the infrastructure of the organization in Pirin district of Bulgaria. So Ohrana and the Kastorian committee were created by the Bulgarian Thessaloníki club, which was adherent to the Bulgarian High Command, former IMRO members only supported the effort but did not do nothing else than support. Please consider these things - nevertheless the article is neutral. Regards. --Revizionist (talk) 16:41, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Jingby

message: The one who wrote it doesn't know english.I mean i corrected at least 20 grammatical or syntax mistakes.Secondly is not balanced.We speak about the "Ustashe" of Bulgarians here.The fact that Kalcev and his family left Greece under the treaty of Neilly which saw 50,000 Greeks moving from Bulgaria also is described as "leaving persecution" , ELAS a communist anti-nationalistic movement who was battling Germans Italians and other Royal Greek or collaboratives is described as having a nationalistic agenda!!!!!!!! of massacring poor villagers when even a kid-historian nows that ELAS was in favor at least at first of a separate Macedonian state and secondly it was comprised by Slavomakedonians also.
Bulgarian occupation and the retaliation which provoked isn't discussed.We have 5,000 massacred in Drama we have executions of Greek civilians, deportation, prohibition of Greek language, killing of priests, ethnic cleansing (100,000 Greeks were forced to leave Bulgarian occupied Thrace).We have an organization here which functioned as the servant of Nazis which was envisaging a puppet state under Germans and was armed by Nazis in order for them not to spend soldiers against Greek resistance.In contrast here these people who threw their guns and run for their lives the moment their protectors abandoned them are described as missionaries. 
The sources are nationalistic Bulgarian sites.Shame on you Nazi-lovers. Eagle of Pontus (talk) 14:32, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The Greeks probably weren't as bad as the Nazis, but they weren't good. It's that simple. I made absolutely no revisionist statements whatsoever. You must be confused: Ohrana is the topic of this article. One could argue that Ohrana were not Nazis, merely aligning themselves with the Nazis because it was beneficial to them. But that is not my point here -  I really don't have much of an opinion either way. My point is Ohrana = bad while Metaxas = good is nationalist POV. If you want to add sources for the massacres go ahead.  BalkanFever 10:25, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: First of all

message: Sorry to interrupt, but I stumbled upon a really strange edit on my watchlist. Am I mistaking or did this edit actually remove a reference to Poulton, Danford and other third-party scholars with a piece by someone Ioannis Koliopoulos, taken from the website http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr. I cannot help it but feel something might be wrong here. Any explanation on the issue at hand?--Laveol T 23:24, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Strange edit 

message: I've reverted this part [] , which falsifies the references and assumes that Slav populations in 1940s Greek Macedonia were pro Bulgarian& willing to collaborate. 
1. Woodhouse speaks about the average view of the Slav population in all of Macedonia, which is irrelevant in this article, because Ohrana was active only in non Bulgarian occupied Greek Macedonia, where only a small minority compared to Vardar Macedonian Slavs lived (they were not collaborators contrary to Slavs in Vardar Macedonia which were willing to collaborate indeed).
2. Poulton speaks about entire Greek Macedonia (including Bulgarian occupied zones), whish does also not coincide with Ohrana's field of action.
Nevertheles, both authors do not speak about populations that were willing to collaborate. Off course we should be carefull when labbeling a community as collaborators by using wrong edit summaries and restoring falsified content.Alexikoua (talk) 09:33, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: There is another error about Laurin, on p. 73 he states: "While some of these people did greet the Bulgarians as liberators particularly in eastern and central Macedonia (which was under Bulgarian occupation), this campaign was less successful in German-occupied western Macedonia." Seems a rewording is necessary here.Alexikoua (talk) 11:39, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Off course this happened on Vardar Macedonia, per Rudometof []Alexikoua (talk) 11:42, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

text: My obection, as stated above, is that Laurin doesn't claim that Bulgarians were received as liberators, in fact it happened the oposite:
Laurin p. 73                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           	Article (wrongly cited by Laurin p. 73)
While some of these people (i.e. Slavophone) did greet the Bulgarians as liberators, particularly in eastern and central Macedonia, this campaign was less successful in German-occupied western Macedonia. Many of the Slavic speakers who did declare	In 1941 Greek Macedonia was occupied by German, Italian and Bulgarian troops. The Bulgarians occupied the whole of Eastern Macedonia and Western Thrace, where they were greeted from the greater part of the Slav-speakers as liberators
Hope that it's more than clear now that the sentence is a product of source flaisification.Alexikoua (talk) 16:52, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Falsification of references

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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