Talk:Azmi Bishara

message: Bishara is active supporter for Arab anti-Jewish terror.
Example: https://www.dohainstitute.org/en/News/Pages/azmi-bishara-keynote-lecture-2nd-annual-palestine-forum-full-text.aspx 
 There he approve monstrous genocide and atrocities in Israel 7/10.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:A041:3A1:E700:4996:5697:FA9F:F4FE (talk) 20:33, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

message: I'm glad that some efforts have been made to create a page on Azmi Bishara, but the material that is there, while substantative, is poorly written.  I tried to fix some of it and may work on more in the future, but reorganization of the article should be a priority.  --Jakob Huneycutt 14:05, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Did some clean-up today.  I will probably do more in the future or try to expand the article if possible.  --Jakob Huneycutt 17:56, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

text: He is not very religious. gidonb 12:21, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: I have remove the term "Palestinian Israeli" because it is a political term for an Israeli Arab.  Jon513 17:18, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Palestinian Israeli 

message: I could not find information about his tenure at the Van Leer Institute in the Van Leer website. This is a shame, and i hope someone else manages to find it and replace the current reference (from the Adalah bio) with it. Itayb 17:37, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wanted: Info of Bishara's tenure at the Van Leer Institute at the Van Leer site 

message: The picture, sadly, had to go, since it did "not have sufficient information on its copyright status.", as stated in its Commons profile (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Bishara_azmi.jpg). Copyright issues are very important in Wikipedia. Itayb 17:48, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've reloaded the photograph. This time not to Commons but rather to the Wikipedia database. I stated clearly the copyright license (fair use), so i hope everything's fine now. Itayb 15:21, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The picture, sadly, had to go for lack of copyright information 

message: "Bishara is responsible for many of the major concepts of debate in public and political life of Israel." (my emphasis) Please replace claim by concrete evidence. I don't see how the words "many" and "major" can be objectively asserted in this context, but i dare anyone to prove me wrong. 18:38, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I totally agree with you. No doubt Bishara's opinion has been controversial especially for there contradictions for the classical zionist views but i don't see that He is responsible for many of the major etc... Histolo2 21:28, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "Bishara is responsible for '''many''' of the '''major''' concepts of debate [...]" - obscure language

message: I don't know whether the user identifying himself as Reuven Koren is genuine. If so, i find it quite exciting that a person of his calibre took the time to comment in this talk page; yesterday morning i couldn't have easily imagine circumstances under which i would be engaged in a professional debate with Mr. Koret. It just goes to show how influencial Wikipedia is conceived to be. In any case it doesn't really matter whether this user is genuine or not, because one doesn't have to put one's trust on a stranger's word when one can easily verify the relevant information by oneself. I've done some research on Koren publishing and israelinsider, and here's what i've come up with:
"Reuven Koret is CEO of Tel Aviv-based Koret Communications Ltd. (koret.com ) and Content Markets in the US. After creating, with Harvard University partners, Africana.com as the premier cultural and educational portal for African-descent populations, and selling it to AOL Time Warner, Koret Communications has focused on creating a network of content and community sites for Jewish and Israeli organizations and publishers, including Israel Insider , Jewsweek, ISRAEL21c, birthright israel, Avi Chai Foundation, Jewish Content, and soon-to-be-launched sites for The Jerusalem Post and The Jerusalem Report." -
This short bio is taken from a page which seems to be describing the members constituting a working group set up by the European non-for-profit organization Minerva. It is consistent with the Koret Communications company's portfolio found on their website http://www.koret.com/.
Koret Communications is behind the French edition of the Jerusalem Post. Take the following steps to verify this matter:
#Browse to the Jerusalem Post's main page: . Scroll down to the bottom of the page. To the right of the heading "JPost Sites" you'll see a link to "JPost Français". Follow this link.
#It's fair to say we're now at the official main page of the French edition of the Jerusalem Post. Scroll down to the bottom of that page. Click the link "Crédits". The first paragraph of this passage reads in translation: "The Jerusalem Post French Edition was conceived, developed [sic] by Koret Communications LTD which is also responsible for its maintenance. Every question or comment is to be addressed at producer@koret.com. In any technical problem contact: webmaster@koret.com"
According to Koret Communications' portfolio presented in their site, israelinsider is one of their projects. This is supported by the israelinsider site:
#Browse to israelinsider's main page:  and scroll down to the bottom of the page.
#The bottom line displays a copyright notice, reserving all rights to Koret Communications.
#Clicking the "about" link brings you here, where you can read: "About Israel Insider [...] Israel Insider is published by Koret Communications Ltd., an Internet design and development company based in Tel Aviv, Israel."
There are also indications that Koret Communications is closely associated with the Avi Chai Foundation, which is responsible for the current Israeli "Tsav Pius" campaign and is strongly involved in the production of the current prime-time TV series "Merhak Negi'a".
Reviewing the projects in Koret Communications' portfolio, they do seem to be taking Jewish-Religious, a-priori-pro-Israel attitude. To illustrate the second point, the Israel Insider is described in the KC porfolio thus: "israelinsider [...] is committed to communicating balanced and accurate information about Israel, relating to her conflicts, and celebrating the successes, innovations and contributions of her people." Even ignoring the "celebrating the successes" etc. part of the sentence, the fact that Israel is referred to in English as "her" may be indicative of bias. However, even if Israel Insider has biased interpretation of the facts, it doesn't mean that its reporters don't get the facts rights in the first place (those they do choose to report about), and therefore their articles may be considered reliable sources of information.
To sum up. Israel Insider is produced by Koret Communications LTD, which is a notable firm that has managed significant projects, such as the development of the Africana.com site (in the past) and the production of the French edition of the Jerusalem Post (presently). Israel Insider seems to be tending to the Jewish-religious, and to be taking an a-priori sympathetic approach to Israel.
Does the fact that Israel Insider is produced by a big player such as Koret Communications mean that it's a popular and reliable source of information? I suggest to take this matter to some larger forum of Wikipedians in order to establish consensus. I suggest taking this to the members of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Israel. In fact, i'd like to request that they compile a (not exhaustive, and not binding) list of newspapers, magazines and organizations, whose publications can be used as reliable sources of information in Israel-related articles. Itayb 12:40, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good research.  If you want to verify that it is indeed Mr. Koret responding, why don't you email him?  By emailing the publication's editory ... you can send an email by going to "contact" on the publication's site?  
As to Abu Ali's questions, 1) I'm not sure their street address is relevant unless he is going to visit -- if it is to verify who the sender is, he can also email the publication; 2) I don't see the relevance of the number of staff working on the website for inclusion in Wikipedia, and 3) do we require information as to how readership numbers are "audited" of any other source we cite in Wikipedia?  I would guess not.  I do think that these questions are starting to stray a little.  --Epeefleche 13:35, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Koret here. Anyone who wants to contact me is welcome to do so at publisher@israelinsider. We are very interested in doing a wiki project on Israel and Jewish subject. I acquired Israelipedia.com for this reason, as well as Jewswiki.com, which is intended to be the user-content complement to another wholly owned site: Jewsweek.com. 
Itay's research is partial but mostly correct. I should add that in addition to celebrating Israel's success we also vocally criticize her follies. As for calling Israel "her" -- I guess I think of the country more as a lady.... although I suppose that was just a momentary gloss.
We rely on HBX Analytics for our raw numbers. Nice system. Our Alexa rank floats between 60,000 and 90,000. Africana.com by the way is now AOL Black Voices.
We are a small company in the heart of Tel Aviv: a handful of people, privately funded. The opportunity to interact with pursuers of knowledge, whether supporters or critics, critical supporters or supportive critics, is my pleasure and livelihood. [Reuven Koret] Feb. 15, 17:49 Israel Time. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.232.5.36 (talk) 15:51, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: some facts about Koret Communications and israelinsider

message: The map of a-Ram, which i gave a reference to, might well be challenged as politically biased. It appears on the site of the Israeli activist organization "B'Tselem", and depicts the Separation Barrier around a-Ram. My only excuse for linking to it is this: i could not find an alternative map of a-Ram anywhere else, neither online nor in the very detailed hard-copy maps of Israel i have at home. If anyone finds a more "neutral" map depicting a-Ram, please feel free to replace this reference. Itayb 22:09, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The map of a-Ram - admittedly biased, but i couldn't find an alternative 

message: When i try to edit the "Early ife" section, i am presented with text from some previous revision. Does anyone experience the same problem? Do you know how to solve it? Itayb 15:18, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone had missed of a ref ending, have fixed it now SGGH 13:30, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Weird behavior experienced, trying to edit the "Early life" section 

message: I've deleted the quotation excerpted from the video interview for the following reasons:
* It is a primary source, while "'Wikipedia articles should rely on reliable, published secondary sources wherever possible." (Wikipedia:Attribution#Primary and secondary sources, original emphasis).
* I fear the quotation violate copyright. It is distributed under the CC Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 2.0 license, which implies the interview may not be altered, transformed, or built upon.
I welcome discussion about this move.
P.S. I've moved the reference to the interview to the "External Links" section. Itayb 17:06, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  my reasons for deleting the quotation excerpted from the video interview 

message: No doubt the current developments in Bishara's are important and in due time will have to be mentioned in the article. But right now, they are nothing but descriptions of plans, expected future events and speculations regarding the background of these events. This is certainly newsworthy, and would surely be welcome in WikiNews. But Wikipedia is an encyclopedia; not a news agency. An encyclopedia reports about well-established facts, not about speculated future events.
* There is no reason to change "he currently lives" to "lived until April 2007." There is no explicit statement in the cited sources that his leaving Israel is permanent, so this claim constitutes original research, which is deprecated in Wikipedia.
* The statement "a gag order prevents releasing details." This clearly does not belong in an encyclopedia.
* The following sentence is inappropriate: "Bishara planns to announce his resignation in a televised Al Jazeera interview from Jordan." An encyclopedia reports about facts and scientific theories; not about speculated future plans of individuals.
* The following sentence is inappropriate: "He submited his letter of resignation to the Knesset via one of his colleagues." The Ha'arets article states "Bishara will also send his letter of resignation to Knesset Speaker Dalia Itzik following the Passover recess, later in the week." It also states: "Senior Balad officials stressed to Haaretz on Sunday that the resignation will be confirmed only if Bishara does in fact make the announcement." (my emphases) So the resignation is a speculated future event. It does not belong in an encyclopedia.
* As for Bishara's supposed escape to Jordan with his family. This formulation is both original research and biased.
:The Jerusalem Post reports: "According to sources, Bishara left the country immediately following the allegations. The MK, who is currently staying in a Jordan hotel, has been overseas for nearly a week and a half. His family joined him in Jordan on Sunday." Escaped? To Jordan? Escaped with his family? I don't think so.
:The Ha'arets reports: "The Balad chairman left Israel two weeks ago. He initially left for Qatar to serve as commentator for the Aljazeera TV network during the Arab Summit in Riyadh. He then flew to Amman, in order to promote the release of his latest novel. He plans to announce his resignation from Amman, and it is unclear when he intends to return to Israel." No escape. Not to Jordan. No family.
I request all editors to have a bit more patience. A few more days are all that's required before speculation become (or not) facts. Only then will they be eligible for inclusion in Wikipedia. In the mean time, there is WikiNews. Please also bear in mind: Wikipedia is not about truth; it's about explicit and direct attribution to reliable secondary sources (see the Attribution policy). Thanks. Itayb 10:52, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bishara's resignation from the Knesset 

message: i've moved down the 3 versions of saying "azmi bishara" into a seperate section here:  so that the into would look more legible:  compared to 
regardless that it looks a tad better on Explorer, i can testify that there's a world of difference on Firefox - i think it's counter productive and clogs up the intro if 3 Listen files are placed like that. Jaakobou 11:53, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Point taken. No need to disrupt the structure of the reference sections, though; neither is there need to compromise direct attribution. I've tried to accommodate your worthy concerns for legibility with my concerns for direct attribution and good structure. Hope i've struck a good compromise. Itayb 12:38, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: i cleaned it a tad, the ref section is still a gigantic mess. so i must say i was and still am a bit surprised when you say "No need to disrupt the structure of the reference sections" - in my opinion, there's a great need to "disrupt" (i.e. organize) it. Jaakobou 13:17, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "gigantic mess"? Please explain. Itayb 13:31, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I disagree. Could indicate specific points you find troublesome? Itayb 14:13, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll work on it when i feel the itch to go there. Jaakobou 21:06, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Listen 

message: I don't see any point in the ommission of information (date, basic backgroud) from the image. Jaakobou 09:08, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Captions inside infoboxes just look bad. You definitely don't need the words "Image of", and the fact that he ran previously ran for PM is totally irrelevant to the picture (and slightly misleading as he withdrew his candidacy before the election). Number 57 09:14, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Number57. It also makes it appear as though that's the most important fact about Bishara, which is disputable. Itayb 10:17, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

text: i don't quite get the "rv until dispute resolved" style of "resolving" conflicts. i do believe i placed the image and caption first, so it's basically enforcing an extra revert and a personal opinion. anyways, i don't have the time right now so i'm making a slight change to the image and later i'll discuss the Israeli MK thing from the intro - feel free to mess with the changes i'm  making, although, it would be good if you give reasoning for the change here. Jaakobou 11:15, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image text 

message: The phrasing in the first paragraph suggests that when he resigned from the Knesset, he also resigned as head of Balad. To my knowledge, he is still party leader. Does anyone else have any info? Number 57 08:29, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Balad leader

message: I strongly object to Jauerbach's deleting my external link to a blog post I wrote about Azmi Bishara during the recent spy scandal .  My blog is an authoritative, well-source publication about the Israeli-Arab conflict.  The link I provided benefits me in no way commercially or otherwise.  My blog was the sole source for information about the spy scandal anywhere at a time when Israeli publications could not publish in any detail about the matter due to censorship rules.  The blog post contains information I received fr. Israeli journalists in confidence.  The purpose of adding this link was to provide a source for Wikipedians who wish to read more in depth background on this incident.  I hope that anyone who has a problem with this link will communicate further with me about this before reverting it.Richard (talk) 06:21, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sorry, Richard and Roland, but you're both wrong. This link is interesting and may be valuable, but it still comes with zero fact checking since it's not from 'professionals' in the field. I cannot parse out what the Italian source is saying and whether it's the same thing you want to add, it may be possible to add the information, but not the way you're doing it. PRtalk 16:17, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Deleting external link

message: I changed the opening sentence to something that makes more sense. I feel it's unneccesary to state that he's both an MK and a Citizen. To the best of my knowladge, MKs must be Israeli citizens, and this is something normal in most countries. Can we remove the sentence "Bishara holds an Israeli citizenship"? Cumulus (talk) 18:20, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Israeli Citizen 

message: if at all this is needed it should be an encyclopedic mention of the themes he touches on, perhaps name a few major books and the controversy/theme of those. Right now it reads like an attempt to merge external links (which they are) into the article to get by w/o violation WP:EL. As for the book list, it reads like an advert to make a sale for these books, as well as [possibly] blending in Further readings into the article. Could use a cleanup for sure. Lihaas (talk) 21:21, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Writings section 

message: :This is an utter falsehood. It is claimed that this came from the Hebrew version of Maariv, but obviously someone either does not know how to read Hebrew or misinterpreted the text out of malicious intent. 
:—Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.68.95.65 (talk) 22:25, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  The claim that Azmi Bishara was stripped of his citizenship on November 21, 2008 is an OUTRIGHT LIE 

message: From article linked below:
Bishara, who resigned from the Knesset and fled the country in 2007 just when Israeli Security Services were ready to arrest him on charges of treason and espionage, is shown in the video reiterating his Arab nationalist position that there is no such thing as a “Palestinian” people. 
Yehuda Katz, who leads ZFA in the largely anti-Israel Bay Area of northern California, told Israel National News that people should really investigate the basic claims of the Middle East conflict before expressing strong opinions.“History did not start in 1967. We, the modern day Hebrews, have almost a 4,000 year old history and an uninterrupted presence in our homeland for over 3,300 years. The Palestinian nation was invented in the 1960s by Yassir Arafat and Romanian dictator Nicolae Ceauşescu in an attempt to erase our history and steal our land. These facts cannot be ignored any longer. ‘Palestine’ was initially a foreign colonialist concept invented by the Romans who massacred, exiled and enslaved the Jewish people. It is not an authentic Arab identity.” and steal our land. These facts cannot be ignored any longer. ‘Palestine’ was and steal our land. These facts cannot be ignored any longer. ‘Palestine’ was initially a foreign colonialist concept invented by the Romans who massacred, exiled and enslaved the Jewish people. It is not an authentic Arab identity.” 
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/news.aspx/134659  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.125.129.43 (talk) 16:20, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Azmi Bishara admitted there is "no Palestinian nation" in a 1996 video 

message: Why is the beginning of the article worded in a way that ignores his INDICTMENT for treason & that he fled his native country to avoid criminal prosecution for said crimes?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.125.129.43 (talk) 16:27, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  He was indicted for treason, and fled the country as a wanted fugitive. 

message: How come no picture?
See French.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.102.232.132 (talk) 03:40, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  # 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Azmi Bishara. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081120085000/http://info.jpost.com/1999/Supplements/Elections99/candidates/bishara2.shtml to http://info.jpost.com/1999/Supplements/Elections99/candidates/bishara2.shtml
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2007/837/op2.htm
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 23:16, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I was contacted by  to help incorporate some of the changes he's made to this article in his sandbox after reviewing them.  I started with a non-controversial change: changing the infobox, but was reverted minutes later by .  While I do appreciate the reasoning made, that his MK status is the most significant one, I do not agree with replacing a much better formatted infobox that provides much more information about a person by one that may be well suited for one-off MKs.  --Fjmustak (talk) 18:09, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry that you disagree, but these infoboxes are used for pretty much every MK except those that later became Prime Minister; I have just checked :Category:Arab politicians in Israel, and every single Arab MK, past and present, uses this infobox. And just to clarify, the MK one was not replacing the other one, it was the other way round. Number 57 18:12, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The Knesset infobox doesn't have much info, and I don't see what's so special about it. It is currently missing these fields which are provided by Fjmustak's alternate infobox: Citizenship, Nationality, Education, Awards, Children, Relatives, and Website. Al-Andalusi (talk) 16:25, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: He's primarily notable for being an MK, so it's the appropriate infobox. Removing it would leave it inconsistent with other articles on similar subjects. Number 57 17:06, 2 February 2018 (UTC)

text: Perhaps the MK box should be improved in general - but this is what he is known for (subequent position in a smallish thinktank is not significant) and contains important information regarding when he served as a MK.Icewhiz (talk) 20:03, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: He was an MK 11 years ago, and since then he has grown into a different person. As I told Icewhiz elsewhere, he is now known for a lot more things than what happens in that Knesset shithole. I think it's time that Israelis accept that and move on. Al-Andalusi (talk) 20:25, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, well I think we can all see your agenda now. You may also want to check the nationality of other editors before saying silly things like this. Number 57 20:28, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't give a damn about what you see quite frankly. You are trying way too hard, to the extent of willing to violate 1RR, just so you impose this MK infobox, when Bishara left that position more than a decade ago (plus, he gives no shit about that job anyway). Too bad Azmi is of no use to your "But it's not an apartheid...because we have Arab MKs" argument. Al-Andalusi (talk) 20:36, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I haven't violated 1RR. And if you continue with this type of soapboxing then it's likely that you'll end up being topic banned, so I'd suggest reigning it in. Number 57 20:39, 2 February 2018 (UTC)

text: Admin on a power trip? Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones ("we can all see your agenda now"). Al-Andalusi (talk) 20:49, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: , , , and : Who can improve the MK box here and solve this time consuming issue!? I have the modified article at my sandbox since about one week and still I'm waiting somebody to reveiw it and move it to the article if it has no more comments. --Zeidan87 (talk) 21:29, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry Zeidan87, I didn't get round to it last week. I will try and do it this Sunday. Number 57 21:51, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: , I'll continue to incorporate your improvements to the article whenever I have some time. It won't be all at once. As for the infobox, it would be nice to expand it (MK or not), but I doubt I'll be able to do that myself. --Fjmustak (talk) 23:10, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank u  and  for your help, I'll be waiting your comments.--Zeidan87 (talk) 11:26, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

text: You can't edit this article until you have made 500 edits, so if you want to be able to edit this article, start working on other articles that aren't related to the Arab-Israeli conflict. However, multiple edits in a short space of time will be deemed to be gaming the system. Number 57 22:11, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Because of that I hope that one of u help me in that.-Zeidan87 (talk) 19:07, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

text: Probably the best way to deal with the infobox issue to everybody's satisfaction is using a  parameter, which allows combining infoboxes. ∰Bellezzasolo✡ Discuss 16:35, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  This is a great option, thank u. If u don't mind to check the DRAFT edits I suggest to the article at my sandbox and move that edits if u have time too. Thanks in advance.--Zeidan87 (talk) 12:42, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:   Are you happy with the infobox looking like this? ∰Bellezzasolo✡ Discuss 12:47, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edits by {{u|Zeidan87}} 

message: I'm adding here a request to edit the page according to the DRAFT edits I have done at my sandbox page. -Zeidan87 (talk) 15:22, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: You're not allowed to edit this article either directly or by proxy. Number 57 15:27, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  The proposed lede in the sandbox contains a factual error - he was not stripped of his immunity prior to leaving Israel in 2007. He was stripped of immunity in the past (in 2001 due to travelling to an enemy state, Syria, and the contents of his speech there), however this was on a separate case and the Israeli Supreme Court rejected the stripping of his immunity (case 11225/03) as it deemed his actions as material to carrying out his role as an MK. His immunity possibly facilitated leaving Israel in 2007 while under investigation (though possibly authorities were content in him leaving) - regardless he had immunity when he left.Icewhiz (talk) 15:32, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  I wasn't trying to edit the article using that proxy!!! I was using it for another reason!! I don't know why u have removed the request template?? If u don't have enough time to review it, plz let another editors to do that..  I have fixed that in the introduction, plz let me know any further comments.-Zeidan87 (talk) 21:36, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: To be clear. You cannot edit the article, and you cannot ask someone else to edit the article on your behalf. This is why I removed the edit template. Your draft will be reviewed when editors with an interest in this article have time. Number 57 22:03, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: "and you cannot ask someone else to edit the article on your behalf" reference to which policy!? I'm following the 500/30 rule that stats clearly "Editors who are not eligible to be extended-confirmed may use the Talk: namespace to post constructive comments and make edit requests related to articles within the topic area".. PLEASE don't remove the template again!--Zeidan87 (talk) 23:00, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: My apologies, I didn't realise that; I'm quite surprised it's allowed, as it's basically gaming the restriction. Anyway, for anyone responding to the request, I'd strongly suggest that the requested edit is not made. The draft version still needs a lot of work before being copied over. Currently only the introduction and first section of the "Early life and education" part have been properly reviewed. Prior to being reviewed, these two relatively small sections contained numerous factual errors and in many cases the references did not support the claims being sourced and had to be removed or replaced. Every section needs a proper review before being put into mainspace. Number 57 23:06, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank u, Actually, I need that review to be done to be able to modify it and clear any existing errors.-Zeidan87 (talk) 23:19, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

text: Not done for now: After reviewing the draft in 's sandbox, I would not be inclined to accept the proposed text at this time.  While there are many improvements in the sandbox version, there are also potential WP:BLP deficiencies that need to be addressed.  Further specifics will be detailed at User talk:Zeidan87/sandbox. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 18:14, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Request to EDIT the article

message: In the article there's a citation from D.Friedmanns book regarding Bishara.
"he called for promoting the armed struggle ("The resistance") against Israel".
Now, prof' Friedmann as far as I know, isn't fluent in Arabic, and has no intelligence background; yet, someone chose Friedmann's interpretation instead of Bishara's own words.
What I find quite ironic is that the quote itself unravels the manipulation Friedmann allows himself to do to Bishara's words ("resistance" turns to "armed struggle").
The fact is that the Israeli supreme court has examined (2 years after the mentioned unlawful declaration) allegations against Bishara regarding support of armed struggle against the state, and Bishara been cleared of all allegations.
I suggest deleting the citation.Dovole (talk) 22:27, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: This is sourced to an Oxford University Press book - that addresses the rulings by the Israeli supreme court - by one of leading academics in the field. The supreme court did not rule that Bishara did not say this - the supreme court ruled that this was protected speech by a MK (who receive very wide immunity, in Israeli law, for their speech). As noted in the book, the ruling in the supreme court (the majority opinion - by Barak) said   Icewhiz (talk) 06:48, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Have to admit I feel we're getting lost in translation (mind the double meaning)., Friedmann is a an authority when it comes to Civil law, not in translating arabic, most certainly not in translating intentions. Friedmann also is a political figure from the 70's and 2000's. There are mistakes even in Oxford Uni' Press books, especially when a researcher considered authority not in his field of research. Israelis cannot run for Parliament seat after calling to an "armed struggle" against Israel. Bishara's remarks are from 2001. They had been widely known at that time, yet Bishara was elected member of Knesset in later elections of 2003 and 2006, and that's only after a supream court ruling.
Please remove the misleading, bias and manipulated quote.Dovole (talk) 11:35, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

text: Friedman (who is one of the leading academics in the field) is quoting the Supreme court's verdict. I suggest that instead of WP:OR you present [[WP:RS]}es. Icewhiz (talk) 12:37, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: That's not original research that's simply making sense chronologically (the quote is from 2001. Bishara been elected in 2003 and 2006 elected, cleared of allegation by the supreme court) , you're misleading, in his quote Friedmann has no supreme court to rely on, hence there's no citation of a verdict case!Dovole (talk) 13:41, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

text: - wrong court decision. It is 11280/02 (the 11 judge panel one). Full ruling in Hebrew - here. Untranslated quote (which I quoted above in English from Friedman) - clause 45 in Barak's majority opinion - .  Icewhiz (talk) 06:14, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  No, right court decision. In case 11280/02 the words you quote are present in Para. 45, but Baraq is making a statement for which in the very next sentence he asks if the evidence is "compelling, clear and unequivocal". In the following paragraph, Baraq judges that "we have not been presented with evidence which, in its weight and strength, fulfils the required test. ... We have not been persuaded that we have convincing and unequivocal evidence that MK Bishara supports an armed struggle against the State of Israel, but we can not ignore the considerable material that has been submitted to us. But we must not deny that there is doubt in our hearts, and this doubt must act - in a democratic country that seeks freedom and liberty - in favor of freedom to vote and be elected." Any quotation of the charges must be accompanied by mention that the High Court found the evidence sufficiently unconvincing that they overturned the Elections Committee's disqualification of him. If Friedmann doesn't mention it, that's proof Friedmann is not a reliable source. You don't have to rely me for a correct summary of 11280/02 either, because in case 11225/03 Baraq summarises 11280/02 himself: "As the court held in Central Elections Committee for the Sixteenth Knesset v. Tibi, [i.e. 11280/02] the petitioner’s [i.e. Bishra's] speeches did not contain clear support for an armed struggle of a terrorist organization against the State of Israel, although they did contain support for a terrorist organization." Zerotalk 09:22, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  I believe the distinction made by Barak in 11280/02 was that while there was support for armed struggle and for a terrorist organization, there wasn't sufficient evidence for support for a specific armed struggle by a specific terror organization. Icewhiz (talk) 10:59, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  There is no support at all in the judgements for that interpretation. Looking at the sentences quoted in isolation it sounds like Baraq is agreeing with the charges against Bishara.  But when the following sentences are added, it becomes clear that Baraq is stating that "the actions attributed to MK Bishara" (i.e. the charges against Bishara put before the court) would indeed be a serious breach but that the court must decide if those charges have been proved. Then he goes on to write that the majority of the court is not convinced that the charges have been proved. Zerotalk 23:56, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

text: Icewhiz has no "תום לב" (decency in our case). He clearly understand the supreme court isn't positively rule Bishara's called for an armed struggle (in 2001), as Bishara candidacy been allowed in 2003 and 2006... If Icewhiz claim the court couldn't positively determine Bishara's call isn't inciting armed struggle, then we cannot judge ourselves and rely on a misleading quote from a non expert in the field (and bias) like Friedmann, we can only cite Bisharas own words which even Friedmann admits in the same quote aren't "armed struggle" but "resistance".Dovole (talk) 11:05, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

text: We may even quoteלא עוד ניתן להמשיך מבלי להרחיב את המרווח בין אפשרות המלחמה הכוללת ובין העובדה שהכניעה הינה בלתי אפשרית. מה שמאפיין את ממשלת שרון הוא שלאחר ניצחון 'המוקאומה' (ההתנגדות) הלבנונית אשר הפיקה תועלת מהמרווח הזה שאותו הרחיבה סוריה בהתמדה, בין קבלת התנאים הישראליים הקרויים בשם שלום כולל בר-קיימא, לבין האופציה הצבאית. המרווח הזה הועיל לעקשנות ולהתמדה והגבורה של הנהגת ולוחמי ההתנגדות הלבנונית. אולם לאחר ניצחון ההתנגדות לאחר ג'נבה וכן לאחר כשלון 'קמפ דיוויד' באה ממשלה ישראלית שמנסה להצר מרווח זה, כדי שתעמיד בחירה בנוסח: או קבלת התנאים הישראלים, או מלחמה כוללת. כך אי אפשר יהיה להמשיך באופציה השלישית, שהיא אופציית ההתנגדות, אלא על ידי הרחבתו מחדש של המרווח הזה, כדי שהאנשים יוכלו להיאבק ולהתנגד. כמו כן, לא ניתן להרחיב מרווח זה אלא באמצעות עמדה מדינית ערבית מאוחדת ואפקטיבית בזירה הבינלאומית ואמנם הגיעה השעה לכך" (ציטוט מתוך תמליל הנאום כפי שהוגש על ידי היועץ המשפטי לממשלה לוועדת הבחירות (ראיה מס' 6)) Bishara from case 11280/02, but certeinly not the Friedmann quote.Dovole (talk) 11:23, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Friedman is a WP:RS even if it conflict with your version of WP:TRUTH --Shrike (talk) 11:28, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: For Israeli civil law, not for his Arabic translations! The quote itself reveals Friedmann had to jam the message...Dovole (talk) 11:34, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: He didn't translate anything he quoted Levin--Shrike (talk) 11:39, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: And we cannot quote Levin so Friedmann is a mere tool laundering a bias claim.Dovole (talk) 11:44, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  I will also note that understanding  مقاومة in the context of Hezbollah's مقاومة is not so much a matter of translation but rather of context - which is rather obviously clear - just as the meaning French Resistance would be clear to any student of history. Regardless - we have a source placing this in context. Icewhiz (talk) 11:46, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Tell that to Barak and the מותב השופטים that jointly ruled Bishara hasn't violated section א7...Dovole (talk) 11:53, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

text: The fact is that the High Court ruled twice that there was insufficient evidence that Bishara called for an armed struggle of a terrorist organization against Israel. There is no doubt about this whatever, and the two court judgements are the best possible sources. Icewhiz's original interpretations and misleading quotations count for nothing, and Shrike's argument that we should insert something we know to be false because we can find a source that asserts it is an attack on the integrity of the encyclopedia as well as a severe BLP violation. Incidentally it is very easy to find secondary sources regarding the court cases. Here, for example, we read "Justice Aharon Barak ruled that the state failed to prove that Bishara's statements constituted support in the armed struggle of a terror organization, as required by law, unlike supporting a terror organization by praising it or expressing sympathy.". Zerotalk 23:45, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

text: Zero, I suggest you'll remove the Friedmann quote (I can not edit due to my beginner status (in military Hebrew it'd be called PAZAM issue)), and we'll agree on a clear(er) version of the court rule regarding Bishara Knesset candidacy , as current version emphasis the central election committee decision and the minority rule.23:53, 20 October 2018 (UTC)

text: you've explained, all by yourself, how intentionally misleading in a conscious mind Icewhiz edits are, yet you left things to be...Dovole (talk) 12:12, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another problematic claim... 

message: Please add to Works:
Religion and Democracy, in: Naftali Rothenberg and Eliezer Schweid, eds. Jewish Identity in Modern Israel, Jerusalem & New York 2002: Van Leer Jerusalem Institute and Urim Publications pp. 140-146 Ester Geller (talk) 06:31, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: in what language is the book written? - ZLEA T\C 16:21, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: . – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:23, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 21 July 2019 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
* 
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 08:24, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion 

message: Replace :Category:Arab politicians in Israel by :Category:Arab members of the Knesset. Quacelinz3 (talk) 15:23, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Number 57 16:17, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 July 2021 

message: Change "Israeli Arab" to "Palestinian" in opening line of Wikipedia article. Azmi Bishara is factually of Palestinian origin, not Israeli. Obeshara (talk) 09:03, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Actualcpscm (talk) 11:17, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 March 2023 

message: Instead of saying the person is "Israeli Arab", you need to change it to "Palestinian citizen of Israel". The Palestinian minority in Israel have a right to self-identification, and they simply don't want to be identified as "Israeli Arabs". This naming is actually offensive! 
All Arab political parties in Israel call themselves Palestinians in Israel and all documents from the non-government and major non-profits call themselves Arabs Palestinians citizens of Israel, not even one major Non-profit call themselves "Israeli Arabs". Please, respect that and change the naming. Thank you! Waseem89a (talk) 20:24, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ZLEA T\C 22:39, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 June 2023 

message: This individual is a fraud and made up his biography to shone amongst otbers. 184.65.133.235 (talk) 15:33, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 16:45, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 June 2024