Talk:Louise, Baroness Lehzen

message: This work needs citations. I could not find any reference to the details (shown with  tags) listed here in the ODNB. Most of it appears to be a running commentary of the films "Victoria and Albert" and "Edward the King". PeterSymonds 11:47, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Citations needed

message: Theres an image here - http://www.btinternet.com/~sbishop100/ - would this be copyright expired, and useful for the article? Parrot of Doom (talk) 02:16, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image 

message: :Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *Support or *Oppose, then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.
*Rename as nom.  Technically it should be Louise Lehzen, Baroness Lehzen.  The lead to the ODNB article is "Lehzen, (Johanna Clara) Louise, Baroness Lehzen in the Hanoverian nobility (1784–1870)": K. D. Reynolds, ‘Lehzen, (Johanna Clara) Louise, Baroness Lehzen in the Hanoverian nobility (1784–1870)’, Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, Oxford University Press, 2004 , accessed 1 Jan 2012.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:58, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: *I'm working on it. Ruby 2010/2013 23:37, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: Withdrawn per lack of interaction and votes. I've decided to move the page. If someone has objections, they can open an RM against it. (non-admin closure)  Omnis Scientia (talk) 11:01, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Louise Lehzen →  – WP:COMMONNAME. She is known in history as "Baroness Lehzen" and I think the article title should reflect that. Omnis Scientia (talk) 16:24, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

text: Why not put Baroness before the name? It seems more common.  Killuminator (talk) 22:27, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Per similar articles where the person is better known as "Baron(ess) Foo" (e.g. Christian Friedrich, Baron Stockmar), this is the correct form. Omnis Scientia (talk) 22:38, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

text: Also, from my understanding, a noble hereditary title like this always comes after the name. It is courtesy titles (e.g. Lady, Lord, etc.) that are placed before the first name. Since Lehzen was created a Baroness in her own right, her proper title should be "Louise, Baroness Lehzen". Omnis Scientia (talk) 22:42, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Note: I've edited the lede line to reflect that. Omnis Scientia (talk) 22:44, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

text: Also, yes there are cases where "Baron(ess)" (and "Count(ess)" as well) comes before the name. Its not the case here though since she was made a baroness in her own right. Omnis Scientia (talk) 22:46, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

text: Louise, Baroness Lehzen would be compliant with WP:NCPEER, but there's an even stronger case to be made for moving to plain Baroness Lehzen per WP:COMMONNAME in that her given name is very rarely used alongside her title in reliable sources, and never with her given name separated by a comma, as shown by . Rosbif73 (talk) 08:17, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: @Rosbif73, I would say that is true of most noblemen and women. We don't refer to Lord Melbourne as "William" or the "Duke of Wellington" as "Arthur". Same case here. Omnis Scientia (talk) 08:40, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 1 June 2024