Talk:Carlos Ghosn

message: This phrase :
"Sergio Marcchione, who is CEO of Italy's Fiat, took over the troubled American carmaker Chrysler in June 2009 and is heading the attempted turnaround of Detroit's smallest carmaker."
in Career paragraph has nothing to do with Carlos Ghosn, so I' have checked the source note [46] http://www.autoblog.com/2010/04/27/the-detroitbureau-com-on-autoblog-with-paul-eisenstein/ 
but also there that phrase has nothing to do with Carlos Ghosn. 
I'm going to delete it. 
Please somone else, could see if note 
[46] http://www.autoblog.com/2010/04/27/the-detroitbureau-com-on-autoblog-with-paul-eisenstein/ 
must be deleted also?
Bounty braveheart (talk) 22:30, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Career

message: Normally I am loathe to tag articles (except when they have no citations), but this article has proved very troubling to me -- there are far too many inaccuracies, and nearly every footnote I check (when there actually is one) is either dead or does not substantiate, and when I do further research I find that the dead links were inaccurate to begin with. Consequently the article is filled with errors, even in the sentences that appear to have citations. Also, the organization of the article leaves much to be desired, and does not correspond to WP:MOS. It should be a chronological summary of his life. The sections on "Personality" (or "Public Persona" if you will) and "In Popular Media" should be separate, not combined with the summary of his life. Softlavender (talk) 20:41, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Update: Better now. Reorganized, corrected, and cited. Softlavender (talk) 12:36, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article contains numerous errors, has too many dead links, and is poorly organized 

message: I've removed this non-relevant paragraph as it breaks up the career info and I can't quite see its relevance anywhere in the article:
Softlavender (talk) 23:45, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Your logic is hard to refute on this.   Also the car has its own entry where there is no doubt scope for including (suitably  sourced) puffery to the extent appropriate.   More generally, thank you for your work shoveling and heaving the Ghosn entry into something more coherent.   He's an important figure.   Charles01 (talk) 06:39, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for your acknowledgement, Charles. It was a tough job, but somebody had to do it. It's a shame when someone of Ghosn's importance and renown has such a mismanaged and erroneous Wikipedia article, and then that misinformation gets spread all across the internet *sigh*. I feel relieved that it's better now. Softlavender (talk) 06:50, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it's in the nature of the wiki-beast.   Because Ghosn is interesting to LOTS of people, his entry gets wiki contributions from LOTS of people.   Any one of them - well quite several of them - individually could produce a coherent and interesting entry.   But piling all the contributions, with their disparate underlying priorities and assumptions, upon each other, you end up with something that points in a whole lot of different directions at once, and you should not be surpirsed if at that stage the reader loses the will to read.   So from time to time you desperately need someone with the time and commitment to come in and tidy up (or more) the garden, and hack out some of the undergrowth in the process.Charles01 (talk) 07:05, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I have to say this Ghosn situation was the worst I had seen, and after carefully reviewing the editing/revision statistics and who had done what and when on the article, I came to the conclusion that this mess was mainly because: (A) He's not an American or a Brit, so there are less immediately in-the-know people editing the article, and news reaches the U.S./UK about him from a distinct distance. (B) The people editing the article have in the past all been very scattered, piecemeal, and inaccurate, and even those drive-by people usually abandoned Wikipedia entirely after their one or two, or handful of, drive-by edits. The article has never had any long-term care or indeed anyone who has made more than generally a small handful of edits. Of course this is compounded by the fact that Wikipedia has been hemorrhaging good editors for quite a few years. In short, I have found that most articles have some core of reliability with scattered errors, but this article had a core of complete misinformation with some scattered accurate facts. Softlavender (talk) 07:22, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed non-relevant paragraph 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Might one highlight how this article is biased, or would that reflect on the quality or agenda of the researcher/source?
Could it be that Ghosn has more connections to France and Brazil? 126.3.17.188 (talk) 13:59, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: * He had a lebanese grandfather and he himself moved to Lebanon when he was 6 and lived and studied there until finishing secondary school, at the age of 17 (reported in his autobiographical book SHIFT). He clearly grew up in Lebanon, had lebanese relatives and lived and acquired lebanese culture. I see no undue bias in the article. Fbergo (talk) 14:06, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  Did he study at or move to any other notable countries, say, Brazil or France?126.3.17.188 (talk) 16:07, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  Read the article and you will find out. Fbergo (talk) 16:21, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

text: * Regarding the more recent edit warring by 126.3.11.147: The French Mandate of Syria and Lebanon between 1923-1946 was a political division artificially determined by the League of Nations as an aftermath of World War I. No Lebanese descendent considers "Levantine" to define his national/cultural heritage. Ghosn calls his heritage Lebanese in his published book. Stop trying to second guess the subject himself. Fbergo (talk) 12:27, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  underreporting of Brazilian and French links/properties while overreporting of Lebanese 

message: Any objections to adding the news of French or Brazilian Embassy staff in Tokyo visiting the detention centre?126.3.49.153 (talk) 19:56, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Assistance from Embassies to their nationals abroad facing legal problems is very common, and irrelevant to this article. Wikipedia is not a newspaper. Fbergo (talk) 11:25, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Diplomacy (Consular assistance recipient) 

message: This fact cannot be co-incidental, can it? A woman killed by a Renault preceded the execution of arrest by a day. It is in lede126.3.11.147 (talk) 08:45, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Keep your paranoia off wikipedia. Especially in biographies of living persons. Fbergo (talk) 11:27, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

text: More explicitly: the protests about fuel prices in France are about a tax hike due in January 2019: . Protests and strikes are very common in France, and these are completely unrelated to Ghosn's arrest. Renault is a french car brand and Renault cars are very common in France. It is absolutely preposterous to assume that a protester being run over by someone driving a Renault in France has any relation to the recent news involving Ghosn. Fbergo (talk) 12:32, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  *Perhaps "hundreds of thousands" of persons striking or protesting is not as common as you wish to think. Thousands, yes, but hundreds of thousands is rather uncommon. Your reference also specifies "lack of consensus" amongst the "media" on the cause of the public protests, contrary to common knowledge that so-called reforms to French railways and power sector (fuel surcharge/tax?) were and continue to be a primary cause, amongst other Public properties and their salaried public servants, even prior to the `electioneering` of the current President. If the President caused a trainwreck of protestors, SNCF should not be scapegoated. Same goes for a Renault in this case. It happened amidst 100`s of 1000`s of protestors who have now been displaced in French media reports. Carlos Ghosn came into Renault AFTER the French government passed the `Privatisation of Renault bill`. 
* I do not see what could be termed "paranoia" by including the facts, however convenient or inconvenient to pro or anti-arab biased reporting (such as Reuters and Washington Post having interviewed several Lebanese Foreign officials but neglecting to mention THE French Ambassador`s visit to Ghosn in his cell!). The use of the word "Levantine" is entirely proper, as "Lebanon" in Semitic languages is pronounced "Levanan" and "Livnan", kinda like the Mexicans pronounce beer with a "V" (Cerbeza), and "Levantine" is in the Oxford Dictionary of English. Carlos Ghosn is not "second-guessed" by the usage of this term, nor the link to the French Mandate from whence his parents emigrated. By using the term "Levantine" linking to French Mandate gives precise info, fully compatible with the context of both reality and his autobiography, thus there cannot be a valid objection to that. BRB126.3.24.87 (talk) 18:34, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

text: * This is YOUR interpretation of Levantine, no reliable source calls him Levantine, not even himself. You have also recently exchanged a verifiable reliable source (article from the Telegraph from 2006) by a reference to a private company report (therefore likely biased) from 2004 which is not available online for other editors to check. WP:LIBEL is a serious issue in biographical articles in Wikipedia, wikipedia must be backed up by reliable sources, it is not a venue por your personal beliefs. Fbergo (talk) 18:46, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  I`m afraid your lack of understanding on the matters indicate that you wouldn`t tell an unreliable source from a reliable source if the source called you r smartphone. Kindly cease in your combative and regressive behavior, keeping in mind that we should be here to contribute rather than delete. Please do not give up on making contributary improvements here on wikipedia.126.3.24.87 (talk) 19:40, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hundreds of Thousands of French public-protest at time of Arrest 

message: There are audio sources of Ghosns physical reaction (「いたい」was uttered) to pain inflicted on his person by Emmanuel Macron,
posing for the media at a Renault plant in northern France on the 8th of November just before the Brazilian Formula One Grand Prix. Photographs and video are available from AFP archives and elsewhere(https://www.boursedirect.fr/fr/actualites/categorie/economie/carlos-ghosn-une-etoile-soudain-tombee-au-pays-du-soleil-levant-afp-3ab80d486c6f658f1fb70e8e2af215316206c645), but better sources without potential French conflict-of-interest exist. Ghosn is currently incapacitated, but there are witnesses as well as the abovementioned electromagnetic documentary evidence. Anyone care to make that material available for referencing here on wikipedia?126.3.24.87 (talk) 19:29, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: * Are you claiming that the president of France, Emmanuel Macron, physically assaulted Carlos Ghosn during a public appearance with media coverage, and that it did NOT make the news? These are videos of Macron and Ghosn at this visit to a Renault plant in Maubeuge, 8 November 2018, where Macron was hostilized by Renault workers:   . Your claim is absurd. A few days ago you asked "Did he study at or move to any other notable countries, say, Brazil or France?" while this information was clearly written in a section of the article. Please stop your disruptive editing of this article. Fbergo (talk) 19:57, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps Youtube content would be challenged by many editors as "anyones", and I have seen a youtube clip of a BBC presenter fondling a young woman (an assault on live telly that never "made" the news until the after the assailant died) without it having been reported for years. The clips you linked show that a dozen or journalistic crewmembers were there with ample recording and editing equipment, but unedited footage would be best, if any claims were to be made. Having been "Hostilized" would not warrant assaulting a third-party, unless there was an underlying motive for "the squeeze" (based on what i saw in the linked video, Ghosn was neutral). What was written a few days ago was in light of Reuters overreporting on Middle-Eastern Diplomatic Corps (Lebanon offers support), which has now been rendered partial since NHK revealed that the Ghosn had been paid a personal visit by the Ambassador of France to Japan. His location of choice for his wedding to Carole two years ago was also in France, thus the legality of his French personality would outweigh the others, merely as a point of law. The question asked a few days ago was intended to gently have other editors understand the nature of Washington Post and Reuters bias in certain internationally significant cases. Concluding with the mythbusting of this article depicting Ghosn as a hired-killer-cost-cutter, the material you objected to and removed is good material, showing Ghosns ***Career*** should be given more attention (he was already employed for a while at Renault prior to being re-assigned within Renault, whereas the current article gives the impression that he was a sort of specialist), removing the overly ambitious allied power fluff which is full of "projections" and "speculation" albeit "reliably sourced". Thank you126.3.24.87 (talk) 22:16, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

text: * I provided the youtube links as examples of how irrelevant the event was, for Ghosn at least. After finishing middle-school he moved to France for his college education, which is clearly stated in the article. You keep editing something you clearly have not read or understood, the end result will not make sense. The second paragraph of the lead, which you added based on a source we cannot check, makes no sense in the lead. Fbergo (talk) 03:12, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ghosn "given the squeeze" by President Macron 

message: Proposal to include the below bullet-points into the article; Most of the massmedia have pushed up a pedestal for Carlos Ghosn stories, but other mass-media have been more sensible, and no-one goes "straight-to-the-top" in any case, so even if the image changes, it would be more balanced. Cheers.
* End-1994 – Renault shares are floated at FRF 180.90. Renault joins the CAC40 index
* 1 June 1995 – Renault decides to open a plant in Brazil.
* 3 July 1996 – Renault is fully privatized, with the French government reducing its stake from 52% to 46%
* 19 November 1996 – Renault Scénic is named European Car of the Year 1997
* December 1996 – Carlos Ghosn is appointed Executive Vice President.
* 27 February 1997 – The closure of the Belgian Vilvoorde plant is announced.
* December 1997 – Williams Renault wins the Formula One Constructors' Championship for the sixth time.
* February 1998 – Renault starts its New Distribution (Nouvelle Distribution) project.
* 28 May 1998 – The Technocentre in Guyancourt, France is opened.
* 2 July 1998 – Renault and the City of Moscow set up OAO Avtoframos.
* November 1998 – Renault starts development work on a car retailing at €5.000,00.
* 4 December 1998 – Inauguration of the Ayrton Senna Plant in Curitiba Brazil.
* 27 March 1999 – Renault acquires 36.8% of the Japanese carmaker Nissan. Carlos Ghosn becomes head of Nissan.
* 2 July 1999 – Renault takes control of Romanian carmaker Dacia.
* 18 October 1999 – Carlos Ghosn announces the Nissan Revival Plan.
* 21 April 2000 – Renault acquires South Korean carmaker Samsung Motors.
* 25 April 2000 – Renault sells its trucks business to AB Volvo in exchange for a 20% stake in the Swedish group. The future of Renault Trucks is assured.
* 12 March 2001 – Renault and Nissan draw-up plans to set up a global joint purchasing unit, called Renault Nissan Purchasing Organisation
* 27 March 2001 – Laguna II becomes the first car ever to be awarded five starts in the EuroNCAP crash tests
* 30 October 2001 – Renault increases its equity stake in Nissan to 44,4%, and Nissan takes a 15% stake in Renault. The Renault-Nissan Alliance Board is created.
* 20 December 2001 – Renault and Nissan inaugurate their first joint plant, used to assemble LCVs in Curitiba, Brazil.
* 28 June 2002 – Renault and Nissan set up Renault Nissan Information Services, the second joint venture under the Alliance.
* 22 October 2002 – Production of the Trafic panel van starts at Nissan's plant in Barcelona, making Renault and Nissan's first joint production project in Europe.
* 19 November 2002 – Renault Mégane is named Car of the year 2003.
* 23 January 2003 – The Renault Production Way (SPR) is launched with the aim of ensuring that the Group's industrial system performs in line with the best in the world.
* 24 February 2003 – Claas becomes the majority partner in Renault Agriculture by acquiring a 51% stake. (It later purchased the remaining 49%.)
* 26 February 2003 – Renault invests €230 million in the production and marketing of its future X90 vehicle in Russia.
* 28 July 2003 – Renault takes control of its SOMACA subsidiary, previously controlled by the Moroccan government, to make the X90 in Morocco.
* 16 March 2004 – Renault lays the foundations for expansion in Iran by setting up Renault Pars.
* September 2004 – Dacia Logan - the €5.000,00 car goes on sale
* February 2005 – Renault announces record sales and financial results.
* 22 February 2005 – Renault signs an agreement with Mahindra & Mahindra to produce Logan in India.
* 6 April 2005 – The Avtoframos plant in Moscow is inaugurated.
* 29 April 2005 – Carlos Ghosn takes over from Louis Schweitzer as president of Renault.
126.3.31.114 (talk) 22:09, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: * No. The timeline above, which contains inaccuracies, is for the companies Renault and Nissan. Most of the points cannot be directly attributed or related to Ghosn. This article is a biography of the person. Wikipedia is not a soapbox for fighting what you perceive as media bias. If there is a media bias, it will be present in the article as it needs to be based on reliable sources. Do you work, or worked in the past, for any of the companies Ghosn directed ? If so, disclose your Conflict of Interest and consider Rule 1 of WP:10SR. Fbergo (talk) 16:04, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks. Note that the recent IP edits and talk messages all appear to be by the long-time abuser Long-term abuse/Hydro dot net. I'd revert all the edits to the article but it's not complicated due to intervening edits. Would you be interested in picking up the mop and just removing all additions? -- intgr [talk] 17:03, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hi, I will take a look over the next few days and try to clean up any leftover material from him in the article. But I will not remove material from this talk page (as far as I am aware of policies, non-administrators should not remove talk page content that is not their own). If you want to remove content from this talk page that includes replies from me, I do not object. Fbergo (talk) 18:37, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks. Yeah, it's OK to keep talk page messages. I usually keep messages that someone has replied to, but remove the rest. The guidance on WP:TALK is "". Of course there's no requirement to do so, but it's allowed. -- intgr [talk] 19:16, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Images of Carlos Ghosn as a Deputy rather than a Chief 

message: How is it that there is no explanation for more than 8 1/2 years' worth of edits have been rendered invisible with no explanation?  It would appear to have something to do with bento boxes, but neither the edit introducing this (the first invisible one, March 2011) nor that removing it late last month give the impression of anything deeply scandalous or libellous.  There is edit note reference to a link (to the FT?) within an hour of it first being mentioned, and the edit summary at removal looks like it was dealing with something inappropriate rather than slanderous.  A Google search of "Carlos Ghosn bento box" shows nothing that might make a lawyer nervous.
I am not asking for the material to be reintroduced to the article, but for some respect for the scores of wikipedians who have edited it in the meantime: even if you cannot (or will not) make those versions available again, at least some explanation.  Kevin McE (talk) 10:42, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: The page log reveals that the revisions were hidden by Nthep because of copyright violation. However, doesn't this case fall under WP:REVDEL#Large-scale use? Especially if it's about the excessive quotation mentioned in the summary of the first visible revision after the deleted ones by Coffee, it doesn't sound like a plagiarism so egregious that it justifies losing attribution of hundreds of edits over the years. Nardog (talk) 11:12, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: So, , you have decided that all those editors over all those years don't even deserve a brief explanation of why you have ditched their work.  Care to present some rationale? Kevin McE (talk) 13:19, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: See WP:REVDEL. The work itself is not lost, just the information of who made what edit, and revision deletion because of copyright violation like this usually doesn't require explicit explanation, which draws extra attention. But I nonetheless think the revision deletion in this case was somewhat debatable, to put it mildly. Nardog (talk) 13:27, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: It took a lot of consideration before I revdel'd so many revisions and it concerns a quotation from the Financial Times.  If you think that it is sufficient for the relevant content to remain removed from the article and not revdel the intermediate revisons due to the elapsed time and number of revisions since per WP:REVDEL#Large-scale use, I've no problems in restoring them. Nthep (talk) 16:30, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  That is my suggestion, especially if it's just excessive quotation, not unattributed plagiarism. Nardog (talk) 16:57, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: That would seem reasonable, and respectful.  Kevin McE (talk) 17:16, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Noted, I'm going to leave it 24 hours for anyone else e.g. Coffee who made the original revdel request, to comment if they wish. Nthep (talk) 17:21, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  8 1/2 years of edits rendered invisible 

message: Turkish private jet company says rogue employee helped Carlos Ghosn flee Japan, Source. UniSail2 (talk) 17:14, 3 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Escape plot

message: The article currently describes Ghosn as "fugitive of Lebanese ancestry".  Can one run away from one's ancestry‽ --Lance E Sloan (talk) 19:45, 3 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: No. Bueller 007 just added the word "fugitive" between "businessman" and "of Lebanese ancestry" most probably because they wanted to show he had become a fugitive. Anyway, the edit does not come with a source and should be removed right away. --直蔵 (talk) 07:34, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

text: There's a difference between a "fugitive of" and a "fugitive from". "Edit does not come with a source"?  Are you illiterate?  He's wanted by Interpol and the lede already says so.  Bueller 007 (talk) 18:06, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Is the word fugitive neutral? Is a fugitive different from a Refugee?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.136.155.53 (talk) 19:08, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fugitive? 

message: Jorge Ghosn (died 2006 in Rio de Janeiro) who was a diamond trafficker and worked in the airline industry,[57] was convicted of murdering a priest, Paul Massad,[58] near Sawfar, Lebanon on 17 April 1960, hence he was sentenced to death on 9 January 1961, which was later reduced to 15 years in prison, where he served until 1970, due to good conduct time, but he was reinstated in prison four months later for dealing with counterfeit dollars, in which he was sentenced to another 15 years behind bars; however, due to the outbreak of Lebanese Civil War, he managed to leave to Brazil in 1975.
This text was a WP:BLP violation and move here per WP:PRESERVE.  Jtbobwaysf (talk) 18:50, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  move 

message: Can you explain your removal of the sourced info related to Jorge Ghosn? If not, I would like to retrieve my edits. UniSail2 (talk) 22:15, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Your edits and content are all preserved in the section above this per WP:PRESERVE. These edits dont comply with BLP. If the son is not notable enough for his own page, it doesnt belong on another person's (even the father's) BLP for obvious WP:NPOV reasons. You can create an article for the son and put it there. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 08:00, 12 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Jorge Ghosn was the father of Carlos, not his son?! I included the info as a note, so I think it would not be a problem to keep it, as footnotes in books. Please reconsider. UniSail2 (talk) 13:27, 12 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, I have re-added part of it and toned it down. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 17:06, 12 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: BLP violation?

message: His full name is Carlos Ghosn Bichara as per Interpol. Dianakc (talk) 22:54, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Full name 

message: This entire section is incoherent.  Whoever wrote this section either did not proofread it or is not fluent in English. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1702:26e0:3e30:554a:bf1:dc0f:5acd (talk) 03:40, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. I would just remove it, but I have no idea what it says so I can't tell if it belongs here or not. GA-RT-22 (talk) 12:42, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

text: I see this section was already removed once, then restored but without the maintenance tags. If anyone wants to restore this again, please discuss here first. If you are unwilling to do that, at least restore the maintenance tags along with the content. GA-RT-22 (talk) 12:50, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

text: This section is important in a way of providing different sources, mainly french also international one by bloomberg, explaining they might be high suspiction of business intelligence in the carlos ghosn case. Several articles mentions them and have to be added to the executive end of career, plus renault nissan issues; — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.8.40.233 (talk) 13:09, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Business Intelligence suspicion 

message: The section on his career, which spans from 1978 to 2018, is far shorter than the section on his arrest & flight (2018-2022). This is one element of WP:SYSTEMICBIAS, where Wikipedia editors are sadly just as prone to emphasizing sensationslism as anyone else, and are less likely to take the time to add information from books and non-FUTON sources about more boring details like his (extensively-covered) career.
I think a split is clearly indicated at this point, to avoid placing such extreme emphasis on just four years of his life. Thoughts? DFlhb (talk) 23:32, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: A new page could be created for the Ghosn Nissan controversy to cover all of the related happenings as well. --Taivalaskel (talk) 01:45, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: DFlhb I strongly support this proposal because half this article is about the escape. Since you said this back in January and there's no objections either, I'd say go ahead with splitting. --185.69.145.68 (talk) 17:22, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  I don't think the article should be split. It's not long enough to justify a split (~6,000 words) per WP:SIZESPLIT and I don't think the arrest and escape is necessarily a distinct enough topic to constitute its own article. While the article is weighted towards his arrest and escape (~3/5 of the article) I don't think thats necessarily a problem and I think its easily fixable through more work on this article. FlalfTalk 13:25, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Length: Splitting discussion