Talk:X-SAMPA

message: While cross-checking Hungarian X-SAMPA chart to be I noticed several missing IPA/SAMPA symbols. 
* ʦ, LSL Ts Digraph
* ʧ, LSL Tesh Digraph
* ʣ, LSL Dz Digraph		
* ʤ, LSL Dezh Digraph
These are not diphtongs but normal phonemes (morphemes? I always mix them up).
The one you want here is "phoneme", but technically they're neither; they're symbols for specific "phones": the unit of linguistically-significant sound.  A phone's symbol may also be used to represent a specific phoneme in a given language, but a phoneme is a more abstract concept: it's the "underlying" sound that a speaker has in their head, as opposed to what actually comes out.  For instance, English has a phoneme /p/ that comes out as [p_h] at the beginning of words and bare [p] elsewhere; /b/ is normally [b] but is [b_0] when whispering.  We know that /p/ and /b/ are distinct because of minimal pairs like "pat" and "bat" and "fob" and "fop"; but the different /p/'s are "the same sound" because they never distinguish words.  The phonetic result of two phonemes together may also be different than their results individually; phonemically, "cucumber" starts with /kju/, but phonetically it may come out as [c_hCu].
As far as I see they're not on the normal IPA chart, so I guess they doesn't even exist. :) So, um, what now? --grin 10:53, 2004 Mar 11 (UTC)
Normally, such sounds - called affricates - may be indicated by simply putting the two symbols together, as long as the distinction between the affricate and the corresponding stop+fricative pair is not germane to the discussion.  If such a distinction must be preserved, the affricate may be indicated by tying the two symbols graphically, with an arc much like the tie used in musical notation.  The digraphs are a recognized variant of the tied notation, allowed by but not part of the IPA.
:According to the X-SAMPA specs, there are basically two options: mark them as /ts tS dz dZ/ plain, and if you need to differentiate clusters, use /t-s t-S/ etc for the clusters (which is what hyphen "separator" is for) -- the other option is to mark the digraph phonemes explicitly as /t_s t_S/ etc. (the diacritics _s _S _z _Z are "reserved" so as not to clash with this kind of use) and leave the clusters as unmarked /ts dz/ etc.  The first is probably more readable.   --Muke Tever 17:16, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing symbols 

message: This IPA/X-SAMPA comparison image was made by a friend of mine. I uploaded it to :Image:X-sampa.gif. It's very handy. Maybe it can be incorporated into the article somehow.--Sonjaaa 03:00, Sep 12, 2004 (UTC)
:That link doesn't seem to go anywhere, Sonjaaa. I'm assuming you mean KT's chart? There is a link for that in External Links. --Actually, I just removed the link there to http://www.diku.dk/hjemmesider/studerende/thorinn/xsamchart.gif, and replaced it with http://www.conmicro.cx/~kturtle/language/xsamchart.gif, since the latter is the current, more or less maintained, version. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.115.21.42 (talk) 03:14, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The latter link now lands on a UK gambling website, and the other gives a page not found (404) error, so neither of them is any use for people who want to compare or convert between IPA and X-SAMPA.  yoyo (talk) 07:33, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  Given they're 13 years old it would be surprising if either of them worked. But luckily Wayback Machine has it saved. Nardog (talk) 08:25, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Handy comparison chart

message: I have an objection to Danish vælge ["vElG@]. This is a very old-fashioned way to pronounce the word - a more contemporary way is ["vElj@]. Maybe "væge" [vEG@] is better, but the [G] sound is nowadays used only in very formal Danish.
Danish stød is only pronounced [sd2?] in certain dialects - I presume the editor intended a reference to the article about Stød. --Apus 10:25, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yep, the velar fricative is ridiculously old-fashioned and I've removed it. Mr KEBAB (talk) 22:19, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Danish pronunciation

message: (Note that it is a convention among some conlangers to use an asterisk (e.g., O*) instead of backslash). -- What's the source for this statement? I'm a long-standing member of the conlanging community and I've never come across this convention, nor has anyone I've asked about it. 84.70.22.61 12:28, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Asterisk? 

message: I'm setting up one of the fancy IPA charts on my talk page as a reference that I can use to go from IPA to X-SAMPA. Would it (once it's both complete and with its other two main charts) be useful here for others who want to use a phonetic alphabet but don't have a keyboard with, say, "ŋ" on it?
Adiabatic 01:45, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As a reference I think it's a brilliant idea. Well done! It's a bit less useful than it could have been, now that Unicode IPA fonts are easily available and UTF-8 support is catching on on the Internet, but I think it's wonderful. --Kjoonlee 22:24, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chart, again 

message: You might like to experiment with adding the parameter "sortable" in the Wikitable header (ie simply changing class="wikitable" to class="wikitable sortable").  This makes it easier to find the symbols by the shape of the IPA or the description of the sounds.  Alternatively, the examples could be grouped by language.  Just a suggestion: the article is very good as it stands.
You can see a couple of examples of this technique in Spelling in Gwoyeu Romatzyh.  --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 18:42, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sortable charts 

message: Do we really need "scat" as the example for /k/? I am guessing it used to be cat before some vandalism?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.10.193.6 (talk) 02:52, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: the sound at the beginning of "cat" is actually aspirated in English ([k_h] in X-SAMPA), so it wouldn't be accurate to use cat as an example of pure [k]. --86.135.181.146 (talk) 23:56, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scat? 

message: The example for M is a Korean word, apparently pronounced (eu), that doesn't use M in it's X-SAMPA notation. Suggest a different example or, if the notation is confused and in reality does include a close back unrounded vowel, the correct pronunciation.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.57.62.4 (talk) 13:33, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The Korean word is transliterated eu but it's pronounced , or [M] in X-SAMPA. Aɴɢʀ (talk) 19:46, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong Example for "M" 

message: Is SAMPA a subset of X-SAMPA (or is X-SAMPA a superset of SAMPA)? Error (talk) 22:54, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Neither. SAMPA is language-dependent and thus has many forms, and X-SAMPA is not. Nardog (talk) 23:13, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  X-SAMPA and SAMPA