Talk:Ayran

message: I've changed 
(Bulgarian: мътеница, literally dreggy or roily liquid)
to
(Bulgarian: мътеница, literally dreggy or oily liquid)
as "roily" isn't a word I'm aware of, neither is "dreggy" for that matter, but it conjures up images of dredging so it might be appropriate. - FrancisTyers 14:35, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Change

message: What makes Ayran Turkish?  It is drank throughout the near east...  If its origin is written to be Turkish in a good source, fine, if not then the yogurt and water drink, no matter the name, is not Turkish.  The same drink is sold throughout California as Tahn, the Armenian name.  --RaffiKojian 13:02, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In Armenian, Tahn is commonly used to refer to what is called Ayran here, while Doogh is simply Tahn with gas.  So Tahn works for both.  They do not have Lassi in Armenia.  I think Tahn is much better redirected to Ayran, and will make that change now.  --RaffiKojian 18:59, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah thats true, Tahn is what is Aryan here, well the article. Artaxiad 19:00, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  What makes it Turkish is that it's made from yoghurt which is undisputedly Turkish. There's an inheretence here. If you dispute it's Turkish origin, then you need to supply non-biased sources. Not the other way around (it'sWP rules). Delete ALL other ethnic references untill then.   --Oguz1 21:17, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oguz, it is popular in other countries, as well. Supposedly it became an important part of their cuisine, so we should not delete them. It is not only about history. Also, yogurt being indisputably Turkish makes it very likely that Ayran has Turkish origins, but it does not prove it.  --deniz 05:47, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Uhhhh....Coca-cola is an important part of just about every nation's "cuisine", so are Cigarettes, Ketchup, and a million other simple little recipes. I don't see the Armenian translation of Mustard on the Mustard page, do you? How ridiculous!   --Oguz1 16:55, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Is this a English Encyclopedia or is it a Dictionary of all languages? Looks like a dictionary to me with all bunch of different translations. I have never seen this on an Encyclopedia before - in any language. Has anyone seen this before anywhere?  --Oguz1 22:29, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Turkish people do not own this, its popular among these people so there languages stay, Coca cola is no ones its not ethnically like "Ayran" or goes back Coca cola is new and others do not use it like this it is completely irrelevant. Artaxiad 00:04, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  This is not a dictionary. Just becasue it's popular somewhere else, we do not need the translation. Coke is ethnic "American" - even WP says so (The Coca-Cola drink has a high degree of identification with the United States itself, being considered by some an "American Brand" or to a small extent as an item representing America.) Turkish people do own Ayran. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Oguz1 (talk • contribs) 14:50, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: OK now, let's get this straight - there is NO documentation that Turks invented this drink, AND Armenians have their own word for this drink - tahn.  So what are you trying to say?  It so happens that because there are few Armenians in the world (hmmm, I wonder why?), Wikipedia has this drink under Ayran, with Tahn redirecting here.  It is just as reasonable to have had it under Tahn, and have Ayran redirect there.  So if you would please stop trying to monopolize this drink as if it is only yours, it would be nice.  Your apparent severe dislike of the Armenian script makes me wonder how you feel about your neighbors...  --RaffiKojian 14:12, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Near Eastern 

message: How are these pronounced: Թան, Αϊράνι, аjрa, айрян . Would be nice to know. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.81.205.51 (talk) 22:55, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Թան is transliterated Tan, which is pronounced something like Tahn. --RaffiKojian 04:39, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translations 

message: it is written that Doogh is naturally carbonated. I think it is not true. in Iran there are bottled doogh which are carbonated but there are also doogh which are not. A home made doogh is is not carbonated. My conclusion is therefore Ayran= Doogh. --Babakexorramdin (talk) 20:53, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting, but in the article doogh, it reads so. Could you make necessary changes in doogh? Thanks. --Chapultepec (talk) 20:55, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I would like to do, but I have not written that there. I just copy and paste our communcations in that page and let's see whether the original author changes it. If not I will edit that page myself. --Babakexorramdin (talk) 21:00, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Ok, meanwhile I did some changes in ayran article as per our debate. --Chapultepec (talk) 21:02, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

text: I saw your changes in doogh, I'll be doing the same in ayran. Thanks. --Chapultepec (talk) 21:12, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes I changed it, seeing the debate in Doogh`s talk page I became even more secure of my conclusion. --Babakexorramdin (talk) 21:17, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  doogh carbonated or not 

message: I don't know why this is tagged unrefed for so long. I'm tied up with a few things right now, so here are a few quick things I found. I'll try to incorporate these, but if someone wants to beat me to it, feel free!
* 
* 
* 
* 
Yngvarr (c) 00:37, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unreferenced? 

message: I changed the names of countries to Alphabetical order and made sure there was proper spacing between them.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.80.159.194 (talk) 14:56, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Alphabetical Order

message: Why is there a separate article for doogh and another one for ayran? Doogh, tan, and ayran all refer to the same beverage. Chaojoker (talk) 16:29, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  you are absolutely right--Babakexorramdin (talk) 23:51, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Absolutely?   No, not at all.   By this standard, kafir and lassi would also be so treated- or all merged into cheese or yogurt... or milk.   They're all just milk, right? with a little culture in residence?   They could all fit into a section of the milk article entitled 'cultured milk products'.   That would leave a cumbersome article of reduced utility.   The question is not 'are all these beverages related to varying degrees,' but 'would merging these articles increase the utility/value for the user?'   Well, would it?Mavigogun (talk) 03:47, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Kefir is different. So is buttermilk. Doogh and Ayran, Tan, Do (Georgian), Mastaw (Kurdish) etc... are all the same thing. I am not sure about Lassi. They make it with mango juice, while Doogh/ Ayran is not fruity.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 09:50, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The point is that there are degrees of difference.   Ayran is not commonly fermented/carbonated, nor may one find it commonly spiced with pepper, or, as ayran, cucumber.   Sure, it is common to prepare lassi with mango juice- but not as a rule; lassi -less fruit- would meet your standards for merger then?   By that measure, doogh with cucumber would needs be separate.   The common variance is key.Mavigogun (talk) 04:28, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  doogh with cucumber is not doogh. It is yoghurt with cucumber, similar to tzatziki and Cacik. Doogh and Ayran are not fermented. The ambiguity comes from the fact that Kefir (fermented milk) is also called Ayran by a few Turkic peoples. Ayran in the middle east, Turkey and Iran is the same as doogh. carbonation is not a rule. I have had homemade very sour (naturally carbonated) Ayran in Turkey and non-carbonated doogh in Iran. The bottled doogh in Iran are usually carbonated the same way as soft-drinks and soda's are. As a rule if you ask Doogh or Ayran in Iran, you get the same thing. About Lassi: I do not know. It is certainly related though.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 13:35, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The doogh article indicates that carbonation in traditional doogh is the product of fermentation; it also specifies that doogh sometimes is flavored with cucumber- in much the same way as lassi may include mango; these points are in direct contradiction to what is stated above. You most definitely don't normally receive anything carbonated when ordering ayran in Turkey. What are you suggesting causes carbonation in non-industrial doogh, if not fermentation?   If the doogh article is incorrect/doesn't reflect citations, could you cite and edit the article to reflect those citations?   You have suggested that editors have confused doogh with kefir; this isn't supported by the references given- in fact, it seems simply wrong.   Check out the PDF 'external link' at the bottom of the doogh article- a report prepared by the government of Iran that declares doogh 'a traditional Iranian fermented milk drink.'Mavigogun (talk) 22:02, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have to see it. Fermented milk drink is Kefir. But Karacahay and Balkar people call Kefir simply as Ayran. But what is called Ayran in Turkey and Iran is the same thing called also Doogh in Iran, Tan in Armenia and Do in Georgia. It is simply Water, Yoghurt and salt. Home-made doogh is usually not carbonated. The bottled doogh can be industrially carbonated or not. I have not seen industrially carbonated Ayran in Turkey, but a fat sour lightly carbonated Ayran, made by the doner kebab guy himself traditionally. That was cool. In Iran people may add flavor to it. It is up to their taste and not part of the essence. Pepermint, Dragon, Baslicum, wild garlic, roses, and other things might be added (not seen pepper though), It is usually done to make it look better. That thing with cucumber is not doogh, it is similar to Cacik. There is another thing, a kind of cold soup, called Ab-doogh-Khiar. It is Water, yoghurt, raisins and walnuts. That is typically a dish which is eaten with bread, white cheese, grapes and melon in the warm summertimes. Doogh and Ayran are used interchangeably in Iran. You can say bring me Doogh or bring me Ayran. You get the same thing. Ayran is a word of Turkic origin and Doogh of Indo-EuropeanPersian origin. --Babakexorramdin (talk) 06:21, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  According to the cited material, doogh (as appearing in Iran) and ayran (as used in Turkey) are not the same thing- independent of how interchangeable you have found the words used in Iran; I have never heard any reference to any flavoring of ayran in Turkey.   Your rational for the addition of flavoring- that it is just for appearance, and therefore inconsequential in distinguishing doogh from ayran -is unpersuasive; the same article drafted by the government of Iran cited above indicates a list of accepted 'flavoring agents'.   The combination of these two prominent features -fermentation and flavoring- distinguish doogh from ayran to a significant degree- as much or more than lemonade from sweetened water flavored by some other substance, be it fruit or herb.   It is my judgment that the merger tag and suggestion should be discarded.   If there is a compelling/usefull reason for creating a broader article, such as 'cultured milk beverages', then I suggest fielding the rational for doing so.   Mavigogun (talk) 08:21, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  No, they aren't different. Stop being a Wiki-D-Bag. --Vitilsky (talk) 18:06, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge with doogh

message: I have removed this statement:   
In Turkey cucumber is cut into very small pieces and added to ayran or diluted yogurt with garlic to make cacık.
 This in noway reflects the process to which cacik is made. By my understanding, the above implies that ayran is first made which then diced cucumbers are added. Although one can argue that ayran and cacik are the same consistency (which it isn't - many regions have their own versions) the process is completely different. cacik is prepared by first finely dicing cucumbers (or grating for the people in the 21st century), finely chopped (or grated) garlic, salt then strained meditation style yoghurt with water to dilute
Please feel free to discuss if you believe this is wrong --220.244.174.12 (talk) 12:38, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed how cacik is made in Turkey 

message: "Some Bulgarian subsidiaries of international food and drinks companies, like Danone, produce, and others, like McDonald's,[5] sell Ayran."
What I meant was that international companies trade Ayran - some, like Danone, produce it; Others - like McDonalds - sell it; Danone IS the international company - an example of such, not part of a list of sellers. 
I am reverting your edit until we come to an agreement.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mishobg12 (talk • contribs) 17:55, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Reworded to reflect the role of Danone; again edited for encyclopedic character, removed redundant wording, removed unqualified speculation.   A list of resellers is of dubious value- however, availability at a global fast food company is noteworthy, speaking to its cultural prevalence. --Mavigogun (talk) 18:42, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bulgaria section edit (clipped from user talk page) 

message: The correct word in Bulgarian is 'айрян', 'айран' is illiterate. There are also official rules for transliteration so it becomes 'ayryan' in Latin letters, although 'airyan' be quite acceptable (if 'ai' is considered diphthong).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.87.236.33 (talk) 21:15, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bulgarian spelling 

message: --->Please add
Facts are taken from one of the largest dairy products producer in Turkey.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.97.148.23 (talk) 14:30, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Request for Nutritional Facts

message: The material on "moru" was clearly misplaced; I recommend starting a separate article for it.   I redacted material below.
Tamilnadu, South India. "Moru" a drink which is exactly the same as the turkish drink is prepared with butter milk, coriander leaves mint, asafoetida and salt. It is drunk during summer, some house holds prepare it and leave it just outside their porch in red ceramic pots for people to drink. It is offered as courtesy to visitors and is praised as the best drink for hot summers. It is also served free in Hindu temples, Christian churches and Mosques being sponsored by individuals and businesses.
--Mavigogun (talk) 04:34, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Moru" and Ayran distinctly different 

message: Xashaiar, 
First of all, thank you for your message, I really do not want an edit war on this. If you read any of my edits, I will never support a POV, ever... I entered more than enough with arguments with Germans, Turks, Greeks, Yugoslavs, Arabs etc. about food irredentism, but it always resolved quite well at the end. I like to call a cat "a cat", as a french proverb says it. 
Now let's face it: Ayran is most probably (and I say AGAIN "most probably") of Turkic origin, as Beer is of ancient Egyptian origin... We have tons of references that indicate to it (see the article). Everything else in the article, from a pan-encyclopedic point of view, is not even related or derived, it is the SAME drink. If it was as you said, we would have created a page for each of the names below, (one for "Dhallë", one for "Aryani" etc. etc.). 
Now on the other hand, it seems more that you are pushing an obvious POV by your wording, trying to show that Tan, Dhallë or whatever it is called is a "derived" drink. Well no. Is "su" a derived drink of "آب" who ultimately derives from "water"? Of course not.
As long as you give sources and references supporting your claims, you'll be credited and you are more than welcome to contribute. (Have you read my idea on the talk:doogh page about merging them together with Ayran?)
Else, if you don't want to contribute and will insist on pushing your POV and keep an edit war as you do, let's call for arbitration.
Sincerely,
--Emir Ali Enç (talk) 01:58, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Is Ayran Turkish/Turkic etc.?

message: Currently it doesn't bear any useful information, just repeats previous paragraphs, and the fact about not adding salt is made-up. Although bulgarians surely love ayran I suggest this part to be removed.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.70.114.11 (talk) 13:18, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bulgarian section 

message: the name ayran itself comes from "ayırmak", also "airag" in mongolian, which means "to seperate". you may ask, what is seperated here, so, originally ayran was made by shaking the milk in a leather bag until all of the fat is seperated to be used as butter, and the rest of is fermentated into yogurt, or in more liquid form, ayran. this method is still used in non-urban areas of Turkey, instead of mixing yogurt with salt and water.
yogurt is a fermented product what does it have to do with shaking or seperating ?!!!
It does. I can confirm that the greeks of thrace traditionally make aryani as a byproduct of the proccess of making butter, because another name for aryani here was "ntrouvanogalo" that means milk from the "ntrouvana" where "ntrouvana" was the tool of stirring/shaking milk to make butter. You can see two "ntrouvanes" here: http://users.sch.gr/athanasiadi/thrakiki/photo/2007/60.jpg
::In kyrgyz yogurt is called ayran, but the drink made from yogurt and water and salt is called chalap. Mahmud Kashgari probably was talking about yogurt under the name ayran.--Sparrow Academy (talk) 01:44, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ayran etymology 

message: An image used in this article, File:Ayran 20090404 001.JPG, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests July 2011 
;What should I do?
	A discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. If you feel the deletion can be contested then please do so (commons:COM:SPEEDY has further information). Otherwise consider finding a replacement image before deletion occurs.
This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 10:05, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: File:Ayran 20090404 001.JPG Nominated for Deletion

message: Why is there now a panel on the right of the screen regarding the history of Iran? I know that in many parts of the English Speaking world Iran is pronounced "Eye Ran" so maybe this is a joke? The subject of the article is Ayran the beverage, not a specific country.--MichaelGG (talk) 23:19, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why the Iran info box? 

message: :The following discussion is an archived discussion of a  
Merge Proposal and / or Redirect. 
Please do not modify it. </br> 
The result of the request for the Proposed Merger of Doogh into this talk page's article was: 
Consensus Reached–Awaiting Merge.</br>—     —     —     —     —
What is all this nonsense about wording, Doogh = Ayran = Tan. They are all the same product, regardless of origin or way of preparation. It is like saying bolognese sauce is not ragu, or korean dumpling is not a dumpling because dumplings are only chinese. It is a rather d-bag argument, and I'm NOT sorry to say this, use your common sense. Since when is doogh only carbonated? It is all just yoghurt mixed with water and salt, folks - and probably not even turkish originally, rather persian or turkic. By that standard, there should be three types of water: carbonated, salty and sweet. I propose a merger.
We could say either: Ayran (main article), the rest subarticles; or "Cultured milk beverages", as a wiki-d-bag suggested above, but I find it retarded personally. Like saying Dihydrogen monoxide for water...
Vote Support or Oppose. --Vitilsky (talk) 18:01, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: What would that be? GenQuest "Talk to Me" 20:31, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge 

message: Ayran (yogrut and in fact dairy products overall) is known to be a great meze and also a way of fighting hangover. I think this is useful information and in fact it is mentioned in at least on of the articles on this topic but in a different language (Bulgarian for example).--Rbaleksandar (talk) 21:33, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ayran is a good meze and also helping against hangover 

message: Changed "Turkish Colonies" to "former parts of the Ottoman Empire" (for obvious reasons) and changed "neighboring nations" to "neighboring regions" to avoid precision/category problems. Jd2718 (talk) 14:34, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Ayran. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131012052951/http://en.vidivodo.com/video/icim-ayran-burger-king-sultan-menu/375783 to http://en.vidivodo.com/video/icim-ayran-burger-king-sultan-menu/375783
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 22:50, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: An editor moved Ayran to Doogh without discussion. I've asked them to move it back  User_talk:92slim#Ayran. Jd2718 (talk) 16:16, 25 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: When I attempted to discuss with User:92slim s/he reverted https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:92slim&oldid=756776884.  I undid the merge, and invite editors to weigh in here. Jd2718 (talk) 00:11, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  Merger was done with discussion with consensus. See Talk:Ayran#Merge for more details. Also, my talk page is not a noticeboard for unilateral edits. 92slim (talk) 03:20, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: You are pointing at an over three year old discussion - October 2013 - which concluded that Doogh should be merged into Ayran, not the other way around. You are claiming a consensus that never existed.  Invite editors here and propose the merge if you will. But a quick google search finds 4,000,000 hits for ayran and just 112,000 for doogh, I doubt many editors agree with you. Jd2718 (talk) 03:29, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  Oh okay, whatever. The merger wasn't done though into either article. Both articles are in ridiculous states. They should be merged, because consensus was reached for a merger since they are the same thing. 92slim (talk) 04:21, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Undiscused move/merge 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Ayran. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20132211074200/http://www.globalgourmet.com/food/kgk/2002/0102/kgk011102.html to http://www.globalgourmet.com/food/kgk/2002/0102/kgk011102.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 20:29, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Doogh which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RMCD bot 05:00, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: The requested move →Ayran I closed as successful is located at Talk:Doogh#Requested move 5 December 2020. Since both articles and talk pages contain significant history, I only swapped article histories, but not talk page contents since that would be doubly confusing. I'm going to move a half-open talk section here, below. No such user (talk) 12:46, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move discussion in progress 

message: I noticed   has undone my edit regarding Ancient Persia meaning ancient Iran. I would like to know on what basis ancient Persia means modern-day Iran and not ancient Iran? Is Roman Empire's heritage also exclusively Italian? Don't Spain, Romania or France 
have anything to do with ancient Rome? 
If a = b, then ax = bx. This isn't even a controversial thing. It's logic. Persia is Iran, therefore ancient Persia is ancient Iran. It's common knowledge that Ancient Persia was at least twice the size of modern Persia. Can one say that Kurds in the current geography of Iran drank ayran 1500 years ago but those that are now in Iraq or Turkey didn't? If in an imaginary situation the three Khorasan provinces in modern-day Iran join Afghanistan, will they be striped off of their ayran drinking past in ancient times?  TerranBoy (talk) 17:09, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ancient Persia: Modern-Day Iran or Ancient Iran 

message: Another editor proposed merging oxygala here, but neglected to start a discussion.  Reading that page and skimming this article, they do not appear to refer to the same thing.  Oxygala is described as "an ancient Greek form of thickened sour milk, probably yogurt-like, eaten with honey like modern Greek yogurt", while ayran is described as "a traditional savory Turkic beverage made from yogurt mixed with water and certain spices, often served with grilled meat" (my paraphrasing).  Ayran does not appear to mean "anything made from yogurt or yogurt-like thickened/sour milk".  I could perhaps see oxygala merged into some article about yogurt or milk-based foods—but ayran seems to describe something distinct and separable from it.  P Aculeius (talk) 12:33, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that it's at best unclear why oxygala should be merged here; perhaps yogurt#history (where it is already mentioned) would be a better target. Caeciliusinhorto-public (talk) 15:56, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal