Talk:Bill Clinton/Archive 3

message: I really like the new photo, thanks very much Chris!--Sina 23:26, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: New Photo

message: He served as Arkansas AG, this should be included in the succession box.    Link for data: http://www.ag.state.ar.us/index_low.htm  (Jim Guy Tucker: 1973-1977 Bill Clinton: 1977-1979 Steve Clark: 1979-1990) NoSeptember 11:42, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Succession box, Attorney General

message: Palllllease. Let's not cast him in this 'All things to all people'  light; while that was the image portrayed often through a Spin city like atmosphere and seemingly endless promises and rhetoric most of his policies were very Liberal if not Radical and were never passed. I can't see a serious argument against this.  It was another Political winger type candidate who failed to bridge the gap of bipartisanship when the country needed moderation most. At the end the gap was wider then ever. I also fault the Republicans for nominating Bob Dole because he was very much on the right. Although Bush might be a conservative he has passes allot of bills most recently using moderate techniques.
Examples of Liberalism:
* Universal health care 
* High taxes on the upper middle class and rich
* Unfettered Affirmative action
* Late Term Abortion
* Small Military
* Little to no Internet Pornography regulation.
I have modified 'Moderate' to 'Liberal' with some extra MAJOR liberal policies like Universal healthcare, which is extrmeley radical if not communist (although it ould be nice if someday money didn't exist which I think might happen with tech, maybe), in the beginning, where it said he was a moderate, which I think is fare.
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   "......if not communist....."
I would just like to say that Communists were a political party that advocated Stalinist/Lenninist/Marxist/etc SOCIALISM. So, I think you would probably want to replace "Communist" with "Socialist". Furthermore, of the Western, Industrialized, 1st World Nations (G7) who are considered to be "Capitolist", the USA is the only one without some form of Nationalized Health Care, thus comparing "Universal Healthcare" to "Communism" is a bit misleading, seeing that just because the former Communist governments of the USSR and the ones of Eastern Europe all had "Universal Healthcare" does not mean that Canada, Japan, and Germany (FR) are also Communist, they are very much Demacratic/Capitolistic Republics to a greater extent.
Thank you,
Thoolie
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: And it's been changed back. Liberal? Perhaps only to the folks far on the right. Clinton was (and is) a moderate; your examples aren't necessarily true. For example, the Communications Decency Act was passed during his presidency (and  overturned by the courts); a liberal would have vetoed it. No Liberal would have tolerated the "Don't Ask Don't Tell" nonsense or the rollback of the welfare system. I don't know if Clinton ever said or did anything regarding late term abortion. Etc. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 5 July 2005 20:03 (UTC)
All of the things listed in the article are liberal: education, free trade, handgun, environment. Why did you delete [Universal healthcare]? That was the major point of the administraion. 
Your're POV. Your're most likley a radical and see these things as moderate. It doesn't matter how YOU view things but the neutral truth. Read: NPOV
He signed the "Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act." which was part of the Conservative's "Contract with America" but is unpopular with socialists and unwed mothers. That's still not enough fuel to make him a moderate. I'm a moderate and I know.
http://dailybeacon.utk.edu/issues/v66/n6/welfare.6o.html
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-11.htm
He passed the Communications Decency Act which was struck down by the Supreme court. This act was way to extreme and just a pamper, not enough. That's not getting allot done to protect people violated by pornagraphy. Example: Not to promote Bush but he has found minor ways to restrict child pornaography and Internet Porn. Also putting porn into the xxx domain probably is a real good thing. Also the FCC has restricted allot of radio and T.V. pronography that got seriously out of hand during the Clinton administration. I agree that a liberal wouldn't want that Communications Act but I think liberals can agree that most of the policies I listed are for the better.
Clinton vetoed late term abortion bans 
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/07/23/lateterm.abortion/
Also, no moderate nor conservative tolerated "Don't ask don't tell" either because it was another illogical 'do nothing' policy to temporally please his liberal constituents; and  mod/conservs were the ones that talked about that most on the radio. I think I remember liberal talk shows laughing it off but not condemning it like the conservatives. The liberals laughed it off because it fit there agenda of Gays in the military. 
I admit that Clinton didn't get allot done of what the liberals wanted and maybe that's why you're casting him into a moderate. But then I would call him a Swing candidate because moderates solve issues on both sides of the fence.
I do admit that it is hard to tell where he was on most issues anyway because he seemed to want to please everyone, but mostly he took advantage of radical ideas on the liberal spectrum.
To put 'moderate' you might as well put Bush as a moderate because he has done allot more for the Liberals then Clinton did for thew Conservatives.
*Well, I disagree -- and it would seem others do too, since other people (not me, I've not touched any of your edits) have consistantly reverted your "liberal" characterization. It doesn't matter how you view things either -- you'll find that you'll need to build consensus here for your change; it's better to do it here than to get into edit wars. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 7 July 2005 16:20 (UTC)
In my opinion, Bill Clinton is a liberal. However, the word "liberal", "moderate", and "conservative" are quite subjective, e.g. to a far-left Marxist Bill Clinton would be seen as a conservative. Due to the labels being so subjective they should be removed or both should be included and be phrased differently. "Some see Clinton as a liberal while other view his postiion as being a moderate."
--Nyr14 July 7, 2005 19:00 (UTC)
*Good point. Perhaps "Within the Democratic Party, Clinton is generally considered a moderate -- in fact, the DLC was formed specifically to overcome the 'liberal' label which had turned into a pejorative during the Reagan and Bush administrations. By many measures, he was the most conservative Democratic president of the 20th century.". Or something like that. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆
There can't be POV. Most of the stuff he did was Liberal. A liberal and not a centrist would want Universal Healthcare with heavy taxes on the rich and upper middle class and shtinkiing the militarty down to nothing.  These were the two MAJOR points of the administration not the stuff listed. I find it very protective to list education and handgun stuff over Universal Healthcare and shrinking the military a great deal when those were the major points of the admin. I sense a large POV bias with that. Put in Universal Healthcare and small military and I don't care if you leave it centrist.
:by Europen standards clinton was right wing. By UK standards he was slightly right of centre (and way too nationalistic but so is most of the planet by uk standards).Geni 17:13, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: no even by European standards Clinton is a hard leftist, a radical on many leftist talking points. That he sometimes is seen as moderate is because there was a republican controlled congress who at least managed to cut some of the radicalism off. --Marcel1975 19:03, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: please the guy is slightly to the right of Tony Blair. Arthur scargill is a hard leftist. Clinton is notGeni 17:06, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Moderate? More like Liberal

message: It has been five years since the five year disbarment started so did he get his law license back? Anyone have an answer yet?
:QuestioningAuthority 16:50, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Did Bill get his law license back? 

message: ...so it's not a high rpiority or anything, but do you think people could pay a little attention to all the vandalism going on in this article--172.162.107.172 02:16, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: I realize this isn't Bush or anything...

message: The article on American Liberalism lists Bill Clinton (and his wife Hillary Rodham Clinton) as notable liberal leaders. I need some advice on whether you think he should actually be in that list.  --Revolución (talk) 16:57, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I would say they should be on the list. They may not be as liberal as some, but nonetheless, they are liberal. There was a discussion above about his liberalism, but I'm not sure if it was ever fully answered. I think the discussion can be reopened in a polite and civil manner. I will start. I contend that Clinton is a liberal. While being a moderate in his party, overall he was liberal. Your turn. --Lord Voldemort (Dark Mark) 14:10, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

text: Nevermind... will discuss elsewhere. --Lord Voldemort (Dark Mark) 14:14, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Is Bill Clinton a liberal? 

message: In the article it says that Clinton has made it known he wants to be the UN sec gen.  But on the UN Sec Gen page - it says that Clinton denies this.  Can someone familiar with the situation, or who knows a source fix the inconsistency.
novacatz 05:52, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: UN Sec Gen

message: From http://clinton5.nara.gov/WH/Accomplishments/eightyears-02.html
1993
December 8	NAFTA Ratified
President Clinton worked to pass bipartisan legislation implementing the North American Free Trade Agreement, creating the world’s largest free trade zone. Since passage of NAFTA, the U.S. manufacturing sector has created 400,000 jobs, and exports to Canada and Mexico support 600,000 more jobs today than in 1993. (Signed 12/8/93)
1994
December 8	GATT Ratified
The Clinton-Gore Administration worked with a bipartisan majority in the Senate to pass legislation implementing the General Agreement on Tariffs and trade (GATT). This agreement allows American workers and businesses to compete in a freer, fairer, and more effective global trading system. (PL 103-465, signed 12/8/94)
Can someone fit this in?
:Well, according to some unions []:More than 402,981 U.S. workers have been certified as of May 7, 2002 under one special NAFTA unemployment program, NAFTA Transitional Adjustment Assistance (NAFTA TAA).
Also they claim: In a historic reversal, the U.S. has developed a trade deficit with Mexico since NAFTA. The $1.7 billion U.S. trade surplus with Mexico in 1993 has been transformed into an annual trade deficit of $25.0 billion in 2000. The U.S. trade deficit with Canada has increased from $10.8 to $44.9 billion over the same period. 172.135.239.51 01:27, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Major Legislation/Achievements 

message: " In the wake of post-9/11 investigations into intelligence failures, critics have criticized the Clinton Administration for ignoring evidence and refusing to take action on intelligence that pointed to the locations of both Osama bin Laden and Mohammed Atta years before the attacks. See also Able Danger and U.S., Taliban Bargained over bin Laden."
History shows there is ample evidence that Clinton did all that he could given the political environment. He just ran out of time when his presidency ended.
:QuestioningAuthority 16:48, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  This paragraph is not NPOV