Talk:British Expeditionary Force order of battle (1940)

message: === Anti Aircraft regts ===
I know for a fact that AA formations were part of the Royal Artillery in 1944, is the same true for 1940 if so i believe these formations should have RA after them.--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 14:16, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This was certainly true for AA Regts (which were renamed HAA Regts on 1 Jun 1940), LAA Regts and Regular Army Searchlight Regts. On the outbreak of war, AA Command comprised a number of Territorial Army searchlight units, some of which were RA Regts, some were RE Btns and others were still regarded as infantry bns! By 1 Aug 1940, all had converted to RA Regts.Glevum (talk) 15:13, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

text: The 15th Infantry Brigade was the division's 3rd bde; however, it returned to the UK on 16 April 1940 and shortly thereafter sailed to Norway, where if formed part of Sickleforce. After the withdrawal from Norway, the bde spent 5 weeks under HQ Scottish Command (so it was prob. in Scotland at the time), before rejoining 5 Divison on 3 July. A useful reference is http://www.ordersofbattle.com/ - however, it is always best to corroborate info with other, independent sourcesGlevum (talk) 15:13, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

text: The bde was formed on 22 April 1940 with 3 Bns: 2 Bn, Irish Guards, 2 Bn, Welsh Guards and 5 Bn, Loyal Regt (a motorcycle unit, which had been transferred from 55 Infantry Division - where it operated as the divisional recce unit). The Loyals left the bde on 22 May; not sure what happened to them, as no mention in my sources until 13 Jan 1941, when they were assigned to 18 Infantry Division (as recce unit) and later converted to 18 Bn Recce Corps. The bde didn't regain a 3rd bn until 22 Jul 1940, when 1 Bn, Royal Norfolk Regt was assignedGlevum (talk) 15:13, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

text: I noticed that too and have inserted a couple of sentences into the Middlesex Regiment page. Basically they were part of the London Regiment (an "umbrella" for the various London territorial battalions) which was disbanded in 1938. The Kensingtons were shifted to the Middx Regt but kept their title and distinctions. Postwar they became a signals unit and after many mergers etc are now part of 38 (City of Sheffield) Signal Regiment where a brief history of the Kensingtons has been added. I have added a wikilink on this page. Alansplodge (talk) 22:49, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

text: Thank you for spotting that.  You are completely correct, according to Joslen.  Please feel free to correct.  By the way, regarding your second source above: Wikipedia is not a reliable source.  Hamish59 (talk) 11:18, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Questions 

message: I know for a fact that AA formations were part of the Royal Artillery in 1944, is the same true for 1940 if so i believe these formations should have RA after them.--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 14:16, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This was certainly true for AA Regts (which were renamed HAA Regts on 1 Jun 1940), LAA Regts and Regular Army Searchlight Regts. On the outbreak of war, AA Command comprised a number of Territorial Army searchlight units, some of which were RA Regts, some were RE Btns and others were still regarded as infantry bns! By 1 Aug 1940, all had converted to RA Regts.Glevum (talk) 15:13, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anti Aircraft regts 

message: 1940 and the BEF is not my area of speciality however it appears that 5th Inf is missing its 3rd brigade - is this correct, was it only a 2 brigade "division" during the 1940 campaign?--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 14:33, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The 15th Infantry Brigade was the division's 3rd bde; however, it returned to the UK on 16 April 1940 and shortly thereafter sailed to Norway, where if formed part of Sickleforce. After the withdrawal from Norway, the bde spent 5 weeks under HQ Scottish Command (so it was prob. in Scotland at the time), before rejoining 5 Divison on 3 July. A useful reference is http://www.ordersofbattle.com/ - however, it is always best to corroborate info with other, independent sourcesGlevum (talk) 15:13, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  5th Infantry Division 

message: Appears to missing a third battalion, is this an error or a fact?--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 13:26, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The bde was formed on 22 April 1940 with 3 Bns: 2 Bn, Irish Guards, 2 Bn, Welsh Guards and 5 Bn, Loyal Regt (a motorcycle unit, which had been transferred from 55 Infantry Division - where it operated as the divisional recce unit). The Loyals left the bde on 22 May; not sure what happened to them, as no mention in my sources until 13 Jan 1941, when they were assigned to 18 Infantry Division (as recce unit) and later converted to 18 Bn Recce Corps. The bde didn't regain a 3rd bn until 22 Jul 1940, when 1 Bn, Royal Norfolk Regt was assignedGlevum (talk) 15:13, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  20th Independent Infantry Brigade (Guards) 

message: Are we sure this is the correct title for this regiment? The Middlesex Regt article doesnt seem, i may have missed it though, to mention anything on this 1st battalion.--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 16:37, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I noticed that too and have inserted a couple of sentences into the Middlesex Regiment page. Basically they were part of the London Regiment (an "umbrella" for the various London territorial battalions) which was disbanded in 1938. The Kensingtons were shifted to the Middx Regt but kept their title and distinctions. Postwar they became a signals unit and after many mergers etc are now part of 38 (City of Sheffield) Signal Regiment where a brief history of the Kensingtons has been added. I have added a wikilink on this page. Alansplodge (talk) 22:49, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  1st Battalion The Princess Louise's Kensington Regiment (The Middlesex Regiment) 

message: Not sure if the author(s) of the article are at fault or whether the problem was with the source(s) used.
When two bns were merged, the usual practice was to combine the designations; e.g. the 4th and 5th bns of the Royal Scots Fusiliers were merged in 1921, forming the 4th/5th battalion. Any mention of a 1st/nth bn, would imply a merger of the 1st and nth bns.
With the duplication of the TA in 1939, many TA battalions used the designations 1/ and 2/ to distinguish between the original bn and the duplicate; e.g. the 1/5th and 2/5th Bns, Sherwood Foresters. If a further 'duplicate' was formed, it might be designated 3/ - unlike WW1, there were only a handful of units so designated. In some cases, the designations were short lived, with the 2/nth bn being renamed as, say, the 9th bn and the 1/nth bn reverting to nth bn. Any mention of a 7/9th bn would therefore imply that the original TA bn had formed a 6th 'duplicate'!
With typical british eccentricity, there was no standard nomencular used for designating TA duplicates. For example:
5th Bn, Gloucestershire Regt duplicated to form the 7th Bn
4th/5th Bn, Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry duplicated to form the 4th Bn and the 5th Bn -yet, seemingly, the 4th bn was regarded to be the duplicate!
4th/5th Bn, Royal Scots Fusiliers seems to have duplicated to form the 6th bn!Glevum (talk) 15:13, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infantry Battalion Designations 

message: The composition of 52nd (Lowland) Division looks incorrect. For 156th Bde the sources I have seen all state 6th and 7th Cameronians (Scottish Rifles), and not 6th and 7th Cameron Highlanders as here. An easy error to make. The sources I have seen are:
Brooks, Richard, ‘Walcheren 1944, Storming Hitler’s island fortress’, published by Osprey
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/52nd_(Lowland)_Infantry_Division
http://www.unithistories.com/units_british/52InfDiv.html 
194.72.120.131 (talk) 11:07, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for spotting that.  You are completely correct, according to Joslen.  Please feel free to correct.  By the way, regarding your second source above: Wikipedia is not a reliable source.  Hamish59 (talk) 11:18, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  156th Brigade