Talk:Pope Pius IX

message: I was unsure what to title this so I just decided to write something quick despite the fact that it was sarcastic. It appears that in the section Papacy/Policies/Germany, it is written that,
Decisive military victories of Prussia against all German States and Austria in Austerlitz in 1866
I believe the reference to Austerlitz is incorrect.
If my understanding of the text is correct it is trying to reference the decisive battle of the Seven Week War  inbetween Austria and Prussia in 1866. If my memory is correct it should be the Battle of Königgrätz. 
But my memory might be faulty and hence my notation of this on the talk page instead of just editing it myself.
Gottesmm (talk) 03:02, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  German/Austrian War in 1866 equals Austerlitz? 

message: I changed it from IX to 9.  You're welcome.  Bhairava2 06:26, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pope Pius 9 

message: "In 1858...Edgardo Mortara was taken from his parents...President Ulysses S. Grant of the USA [asked Pius] to return the child to his parents."
Please clarify: Grant was president from 1869 through 1877.  JHCC 14:21, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Ullysses Grant

message: ... "re-establish the church in England in 1850"?  It was not then nor is it now the Established Church there; that would be the Church of England.  Surely it is not being contended that Catholicism had at some prior point vanished in England for a while; that would be ludicrous.  So just what did he do with regard to England in 1850?  I'm not going to edit just yet, but ask that someone explain this to me before I do.
Rlquall 11:11, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  How did Pius IX ... 

message: Any verification for this?  Particularly this line: During the ensuing correspondence between the two, Pope Pius ensured that he always referred to President Davis as "His Excellency, Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederate States of America."  This would connote diplomatic recognition, which Pius assuredly did not give.
:I cannot find any verification for these claims, and so I feel that they should be deleted.
:I have seen the crown of thorns in the Confederate War Museum here in New Orleans with my own eyes. It is by no means miniature, it is life-size, and the thorns are about 2 inches long and look wicked. The crown is attached to a framed picture of Pius IX. I am deleting the word "miniature in the main article. LafcadioHearn (talk) 13:56, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Fails verification. Manannan67 (talk) 18:42, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pius IX and Jeff Davis 

message: In the first paragraph: "Pope for a record pontificate (not counting the Apostle St. Peter)"
Ik read about the Apostle St. Peter but I am not sure how long his pontificate was. If nobody is sure I would like to remove "(not counting the Apostle St. Peter)".
In any case, many scholars would dispute whether the Apostle Peter could be termed a Pope. Gaz 27-6-06
: According to Catholic Church tradition, St. Peter was in Rome for 25 years. In retrospect, he is viewed as having been the first "Bishop of Rome" and the first "Pope," although the offices of "bishop" and "pope" had not yet been created. Italus 6 November 2006
This should stay in, as it
*makes clear that Peter is taking out of the running
*doesn't affirm or deny whether Peter can be termed Pope (and this is not about scholars)
*doesn't hinge on the length of Peter's pontificate - which BTW would amount to between 37 and 31 years, depending on the dates of the crucifixion of Jesus (30-33) and Peter respectively (64-67).
Str1977 (smile back) 13:05, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Record? 

message: I believe that the use of Blessed before the name of Pop Pius IX in the introduction is an opinion and not necessarily a fact. I will remove this if there are no objections. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Elfsareus (talk • contribs). 13:53, 21 December 2006
: It doesn't belong in the lead for sure. People just keep on re inserting that word. Thanks for removing it. Garion96 (talk) 14:49, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blessed... 

message: "allegedly making him the longest-reigning Pope since the Apostle St. Peter"
How can he be allegedly longest-reigning? Is there some doubt as to when he began his reign or when he died?  Shinhan 06:05, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The doubt concerns the length of Peter's reign. --Wetman 09:12, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

text: That sounds reasonable, since all sources agree that Peter was not elected to the office. Majoreditor (talk) 02:35, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Allegedly longest-reigning? 

message: Something is queer in the section Liberalism and conservatism. Either Pius IX once was "liberal", or he wasn't. It seems odd to me that a general amnesty is an indication that he was liberal, since a humanitarian conservative as well as a humanitarian socialist (which he provenly wasn't) may announce a general amnesty. Beside the general amnesty, there's no indication of liberalism in his acts. Early life and ministry says the political world perceived him as liberal. That's OK, but the text on him shouldn't assume he really was a liberal, unless there are qualified citations for this. My personal reflection on this guy (which shouldn't be used in this encyclopedia): "he was probably a dialectic idealist, conservative with a clear streak of humanitarianism". Said: Rursus ☺ ★ 06:02, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dubious 

message: It’s not obvious to me what ‘post-revolutionary South America’ means, and probably won’t be any clearer to many of our readers. Could somebody gloss and/or wikilink it, please? —Ian Spackman 20:31, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Post-revolutionary South America

message: Pius IX has not been canonised.  Is someone thinking of Pius X?  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jhobson1 (talk • contribs). 
John Paul II beatified him. 186.28.28.213 (talk) 19:29, 25 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why is this in Wikiproject: Saints? 

message: There needs to be a single policy on naming Piedmont/Sardinia as the current section on the end of the papal states contains both, with no suggestion that they are one and the same.--thor 23:55, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Piedmont or Sardinia 

message: :Image:PiusIXCOA.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot (talk) 16:09, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:PiusIXCOA.jpg

message: There is a reference the fact that this codger suffered from "open legs". I take it that this not meant to infer that he spread 'em for all comers round the Vatican given the predilection thereabouts for boys rather than elderly men. Should this be changed to "Restless legs syndrome" which blokes of his vintage are more likely to suffer from? Albatross2147 (talk) 19:43, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point. I have several Pius IX biographies and will ckeck it out in the next few days--Ambrosius007 (talk) 19:36, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It might be "open sores on his legs". In any event I strongly doubt he was sexually promiscuous - although "open legs" usually applies to women. --NellieBly (talk) 20:33, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Open Legs" 

message: Only a corrupt person of the 21st century could think like that. He who is pure, to him everything is pure: to him who is corrupt, everything is impure to him. Jesus beautifully says: clean your eye and your whole body will be clean! Sapienti sat! latin: For the wise it is sufficient. In addition: we could not mix the language of medicine with the language of morality or theology. The first is an experiential science, the second is a spiritual or mental science. Qui bene distinguit - bene docet! He who distinguishes well - teaches well. --Stebunik (talk) 20:58, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Open legs" in the light of Mt 6, 22-23 

message: Even a hagiography can have regard for objectivity. Pius IX should be considered in his lifetime context but an editor should be cautious of using old sources that represent the church's official view of a subject.  Long dead Catholic partisans, even with the most honorable intentions, are not the best sources to establish the proper historical place of Pius IX.
Under WP guidelines, the opening paragraph should give:
:1. Name(s) and title(s), if any (see, for instance, also Wikipedia:Naming conventions (names and 
:2. Dates of birth and death, if known (see Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates and numbers)#Dates of birth and death);
:3. Nationality –
::1. In the normal case this will mean the country of which the person is a citizen or national, or was a citizen when the person became notable. (Note: There is no consensus on how to define nationality for people from the United Kingdom, which encompasses constituent countries. For more information, please see the talk page and archives.)
::2. Ethnicity should generally not be emphasized in the opening unless it is relevant to the subject's notability.
:4. What the person did;
:5. Why the person is significant.
In this article on Sept 4/08, the opening paragraph goes way beyond.   --Interactbiz (Norm, Vancouver Canada) (talk) 21:12, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This is correct, as most leading figures and Popes here have summaries like this one. You questioned his popularity at the time: this is disputable, unsourced opinion I added contemporary sources, which you now dispute, because they are contemporary. I am afraid, regarding his popularity, you have to use contemporary sources, not TIME Magazine of 2008. Facts, even unsourced opinions from newspaper articles like TIME are okay, but they do not substitute for real scholarship and genuine existing reasearch, more of which from all sides of the spectrum this article  could benefit from.  Cheers --Ambrosius007 (talk) 09:29, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV and other problems 

message: Attention: AMBROSIUS007
I believe this article has not reflected a neutral point of view so I submitted edits aimed at improving neutrality and reflecting modern sources of commentary about Pius IX. I had only addressed a few issues of many that need attention.  Historical understanding evolves.  Nineteenth century religion writers should not be the exclusive or primary sources of content in WP.
You are ignoring Wikipedia policies in your changes to and reversion of my edits.  Obviously you prefer to include positive views of Pius IX and I respect that.  However, this forum is intended to represent multiple points of view.  For example, the issue of beatification of Pius IX was highly controversial and you removed verifiable, accurate, sourced discussion of that issue, restoring wording that was an apologia.
I added links to old documents that have been made available in complete form on the internet because copyright has expired.  You removed those.  Surely the original is a better source than your interpretation of it.
"Wikipedia's official policies and guidelines can be summarized as five pillars that define the character of the project.  I repeat them.  See also WP: Help:Reverting.
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--Interactbiz (Norm, Vancouver Canada) (talk) 23:54, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reversion of edits that were aimed at providing improved balance and original sources 

message: Sometimes editors will add details to a summary section without adding those facts to the more detailed article.  To keep articles synchronized, editors should first add any new material to the appropriate places in the detailed article, and if appropriate, summarize the material in the summary section.  In other cases, the detailed article may grow considerably in scope, and the summary section will need to be re-written to do it justice.  These problems may be tagged with ".--Ambrosius007 (talk) 12:22, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Keeping summary articles and detailed articles synchronised

message: This paragraph, especially with its existing wikilinks, is completely confusing to someone who just happened on this page with no fore-knowledge.
Pius IX is the father of much of the modern American Church structure by creating most existing dioceses and archdioceses in the USA. Since 1846 he elevated Oregon to be an archdioceses [sic], New York,(with Boston Hartford, Albany and Buffalo); Cleveland, Ohio, Providence, Rhode Island, St. Louis, (with Dubuque, Chicago, Milwaukee, Quincy, Missouri and Santa Fe) , St. Paul (Minnesota), Wheeling and Savannah (under Baltimore), Burlington, Portland (under Boston ) Newark, Brooklyn, Long Island (under New York), San Francisco and Detroit, Michigan. He also founded Episcopal seats on Fort Wayne, St. Joseph, Missouri, Scranton, Pennsylvania, St. Augustine, Florida, Columbus NC, and Wilmington Delaware. [37] Pius supported Diocesan synods and regular meetings and granted all wishes of the American bishops regarding enlargements of their rights and privileges. In 1849, he politely turned down an invitation to visit the USA. [38]
For instance, Quincy, Missouri - makes more sense if its Quincy, Illinois.  And which Portland?  Would someone knowledgeable about the dioceses/archdiocese get these links to make sense?  Thanks. --Tesscass (talk) 16:50, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the swift response.  I don't have the source, so don't know what any of this means.  However, maybe linking to the dioceses/archdoceses page would make more sense than to the cities?  --Tesscass (talk) 17:02, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archdioceses/Dioceses in the USA 

message: 100px|thumb|upright|A 1870 German drawing shows Pius IX as Papst und König, Pope and King
Is there a source that the Popes were ever called Kings of the Papal States? Gavin (talk) 14:17, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Is there an offical contemporary source were he is given that title? I.e. Diplomatic correspondence or a Vatican Publication? Gavin (talk) 18:23, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

text: Ambrosius, John Gilmary Shea's biography was not a diplomatic correspondence nor a Vatican publication (imprimatur is an episcopal act, not a papal one, and one bishop's imprimatur can never be considered Vatican approval). The source may still be correct; however, what would strengthen your claim is if you had something showing that the Pope claimed this title to himself in diplomatic correspondence or that a sovereign state referred to him as "King" in their correspondence. 76.233.37.160 (talk) 03:48, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, obviously the title "pope" had priority over the temporal title king. After Pius IX no pope was crowned as king. The verification of the coronation of Pius IX as "king" is included in the above mentioned Shea book, which has the official imprimatur of the Catholic Church at the time, meaning that its contents were verified by a third source. I never claimed it was the Vatican, which would be highly unusual, given that Catholic books were approved by the local bishops. I did say, that this biography of John Gilmary Shea has the Imprimatur of Cardinal John McCloskey and approbation of the archbishops and bishops of Cincinnati, Cleveland, Covington, Philadelphia, Fort Wayne, Richmond, Erie, Providence and Chicago. If THAT is not official, I do not know, what is! --Ambrosius007 (talk) 18:47, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Does imprimatur cover the issue of his title as king though? I thought it was only given to certify the accuracy of theological points. For example if Shea said Pius was infallible in his book, it would covered by the imprimatur as it is theological. However if Shea said the Pius was born in 1792 this would not be covered by imprimatur, even though it is historically accurate it is not a theological matter- the bishop does not have the authority to deem things historically accurate on behalf of the Church. Therefore then, a bishops imprimatur would not be evidence that a claim about a historical secular title is officially endorsement by the Church. To answer your question of what would be official- any document made by or on behalf of with the endorsement of the Holy See, Holy Office, Vatican State, Papal State Government. Gavin (talk) 21:52, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  King? 

message: I'm a bit surprised that the article doesn't mention Pius IX's relationship with, and attitudes toward, the Eastern Catholic Churches. We should try to add material on the topic. Majoreditor (talk) 02:00, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, this is an important point which you are welcome to improve upon. If you don't, I might do it later, once I find time. You find important traces of the topic in the part on Russia and the main article on the relation between the Vatican and Russia (1846-1958)--Ambrosius007 (talk) 18:58, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Pius IX and the Eastern Catholic Churches

message: It's surprising for me to see that almost nothing on this article relates to Italian Reunification, and the end of the Papal States. I also do not find information concerning the non expedit question. Summarizing, this article is long and contains a lot of details about this pope, but it falls short of describing the historical importance (at least for Italy) of his figure.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.207.5.2 (talk) 13:28, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Many still to this day think that uniting some (Italy, Germany, Yugoslavia, Great Britain, Sovjet Union) and breaking up others (Austria-Hungary, Holy Roman Empire) was the best thing. The consequences were disastrous: Japan-Russian War (1905), World War I (1914), followed by World War II (1938), then the 3rd Balkan War (1991), then the Russian attack on Ukraine (2014)... If the leaders of the nations would true Christians, they would never have started such deadly wars with naive belief that the (saint?) end justifies the (bad!) means.--Stebunik (talk) 22:29, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Pius IX and Italian Reunification

message: I've just started reading "Angels and Demons", and I seem to remember a reference of Pius IX chiseling off the genitals of nude statues?  Is this true?  There seems to be a lot of people who've followed him very closely, and they should know.  If it is true, why isn't it in this entry?  Or if it is, I apologize in advance for overlooking it.  Asc85 (talk) 15:46, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, I've heard and read about it too, if someone can come up with good sources this would certainly be a nice addition to the article Doriphor (talk) 01:51, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Angels and Demons Reference 

message: Nikolas persecuted Catholics in his empery. Watch a book of Franz Spirago, Példatár, Budapest 1927; page 279 (example nr. 609: Russian tsar Nikolas I by Pope Gregorius XVI; pope showed him tortured priests, believers and nuns); on page 263: (example nr. 578: Daily halb salted haring, about torture of 245 Greek-Catholic nuns). This picture showes not insutlting, but persecution of Catholics. Reason for expulsion was however cruel persecution of Catholics. --Stebunik (talk) 20:56, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Persecution 

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thread_title: File:Pij-IX brown.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: This article appears to have no mention of the fact that Pope Pius XI fled to Gaeta when the Roman Republic was declared. Could someone with more time than myself please rectify this? Anjwalker  Talk 09:00, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  No Mention of Pius IX escape to Gaeta? 

message: On 26 July 1862, before Garibaldi and his volunteers were stopped at Aspromonte:
This reads as a non-sentence as what follows does not format as a block quote due to the image to its left.
It is easily remedied while retaining the block quote as
On 26 July 1862, before Garibaldi and his volunteers were stopped at Aspromonte, he confided to Odo Russell [...] that
or some such more readily readable format as what follows appears to be an indent given the image.
A quote to the right of an image surely requires some thought as to format for readability.
G. Robert Shiplett 13:02, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you. I have added  under the image so that the text does not flow around it. Another alternative would be to use  instead. Elizium23 (talk) 20:54, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  non-sentence 

message: It has been suggested that the following images are undesirable: :File:Pionono11.jpg, because it is not a photograph, and :File:Pionono1.jpg, because it is a duplicate of the first. Now I can agree with the latter, but the first image is a good one, and just because something is not a photo is not a good reason to exclude it. I have reverted the changes and invite discussion and consensus on this matter. Elizium23 (talk) 00:46, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Duplicate, undesirable images? 

message: The opening sentence currently includes this ". . born Giovanni Maria Mastai-Ferretti O.F.S.".  OFS means a secular Franciscan.  My unexceptionable edit removing the clearly impossible asseveration that anyone can be born a secular Franciscan (or a Christian, even) was summarily reverted by Elizium23 even though I had explained the grounds of my edit (the riposte "why not?" is irrational).  I therefore bring the issue here, not least because I have identified further aspects of para. 2 of the lede which require attention.  
* The first sentence of para. 2 currently reads :- "Pius IX defined the dogma of the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary, meaning that Mary was conceived without original sin."
The gloss starting with the word "meaning" is gauche to say the least.  Since (a) the relationship between the dogma and its content and (b) the sense of the dogma are adequately addressed both in the section Overview and in the section Legacy, I see no call to amend the gloss which, rather, I propose deleting.
* The second sentence of para. 2 of the lede is more problematic.   Currently it reads:- "Pius IX also conferred the Marian title of Our Mother of Perpetual Help, a famous Byzantine icon from Crete entrusted to the Redemptorist priests."  For a start, this is ungrammatical (see 5º below).
1º  None of the matter in this sentence recurs anywhere in the article, so the facts it asserts are in need of confirmation, failing which it is liable to be deleted.
2º For the same reason two small amplifications are called for – the icon (which was documented in Rome from 1499 at the latest) was entrusted by Pius IX to the Redemptorists in 1866 according to the article "Redemptorists" in the Catholic Encyclopedia (1911).  A Redemptorist history, (Mother of Millions, 1995) states 1886, but since it also states that it was entrusted by Pius IX (who died in 1878), the date 1886 must be an error.
3º "Mother of Perpetual Help" redirects to "Our Lady of Perpetual Help" anyway, so it is more convenient to have a link which directs straight to that article.
4º  The Redemptorists are not priests only, there are lay brothers too.  Whether this was the case in 1866 I cannot say, but it seems safer to write "Redemptorists" rather than "Redemptorist priests".
5º  If it is the case that Pius IX actually named the icon (which "Mother of Millions" contradicts), surely the sentence should read "Pius IX also conferred the Marian title of Our Lady of Perpetual Help on a famous icon which he entrusted to the Redemptorists"? Ridiculus mus (talk) 19:56, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Consider the absurdity of the parallel statement: "Pope Francis was born Giorgio Mario Bergoglio SJ" Ridiculus mus (talk) 20:01, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, sorry I did not read completely and your edit was correct. We clearly need a better way to introduce his Secular Franciscan membership rather than in the lede sentence. My apologies. Elizium23 (talk) 22:04, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Is it just me, or is Franciscan only mentioned near the end of the article?--Kansas Bear (talk) 22:14, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: On my reading, it only appears in the source ref given at footnote [9].  The link is broken and should read http://www.franciscan-ofs.net/fviews/pius_x.htm.  I tried correcting it, but fell foul of the source definition template.  Thanks Elizium23 - maybe you might fix the broken link.  Ridiculus mus (talk) 06:33, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Problems in the lede 

message: The article quotes Otto von Bismarck about the Pope leaving Rome for possible Malta or "Trient". Was this the town in Switzerland or Triento, Italy? Does anybody know for sure? Pete unseth (talk) 14:41, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  which "Trient" 

message: There are a lot of non-English sources cited in this article, and are extremely difficult to access. Are there any good English translations of these that we can use? Display name 99 (talk) 19:43, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Non-English sources 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: It says at the top "(Italian: Pio; 13 May 1792 ...", shouldn't that be "(Italian: Pio Nono ...", and not sure why the DOB-DOD are in the same brackets. Nono is used twice in the article without an introduction, but this is how he is universally known 217.155.193.120 (talk) 01:03, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pio Nono 

message: Hi, yesterday I'd restored the 1862 portrait of Pius IX which was removed without consultation by User:Orson1234 but, because I possibly understand why he changed it, I wanted to propose reaching a consensus on what would be the most suitable photo. So I propose between the image of 1862 and this one of circa 1878.
I also propose this photo taken by Adolphe Braun on 13 May 1875, during the Pope's 83th birthday.
Also, I indicate here that in the image of Pius IX surrounded by a crowd in 1862, which says that the pope is surrounded by an entourage of cardinals, it is actually an audience with King Francis II of the Two Sicilies. (see in the descriptions of this same photo in the Spanish and Italian Wikipedias, also the cite of Getty Images that I'd put after the caption:). 
I hope my contribution can help improve the article.
--79.151.31.9 (talk) 08:28, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photograph and captions 

message: What did Pope Pius IX contribute for the church during his papacy 2001:8003:2948:1300:703F:31DF:AA:7971 (talk) 05:49, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: We don't answer homework questions, and this isn't the place for a general discussion of the subject. --  Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 06:32, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Religion 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 03:08, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: Crux de Cruce - is not MOTTO of Pope Pius IX, but it is Prophecy of the Popes; in this case prophecy of pope Pius IX. Let you see it and it can be given in article too as curiosity. 
Crux de Cruce (Cross from cross) - it is not the MOTTO of Pope Pius IX in the strict sense, but it is one of the Prophecies of the popes; in this case, a prophecy about Pope Pius IX. These prophecies, according to the majority of interpretations, go forwards to the current Pope Francis. The motto is actually a life guide (of popes or others). By Pope Pius X, this motto was "Omnia restaurare in Christo" - "Renew everything in Christ". But Malachi's prophecy says of him that he is "Ignis ardens," (Burning fire). From this it can be seen immediately that these are two different things: prophecy is not the same as motto. However, this prophecy also belongs in the article about the Pope as a curiosity that is widely known: but this is not his motto. Therefore, it would be appropriate to replace the word "motto" with the word "prophecy" in the the article Prophecy of the Popes too. 
Post-appearance Popes (1590–present)	Post-appearance Popes (1590–present)	Post-appearance Popes (1590–present)	Post-appearance Popes (1590–present)	Post-appearance Popes (1590–present)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            	Post-appearance Popes (1590–present)
Motto No.                           	Motto (Translation)                 	Regnal name (reign)                 	Name                                	Explanation provided in Lignum Vitae                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            	Coat of arms
Crux de cruce.                      	Crux de cruce.                      	                                    	                                    	                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                	
101.                                	Cross from cross                    	Pius IX (1846–78)                   	Giovanni Maria Mastai Ferretti      	Proponents of the prophecies have attempted to link this motto to Pius IX by interpreting it as a reference to his difficulties ("crosses") with the House of Savoy, whose emblem is a cross. O'Brien notes, "A forger would be very disposed to chance some reference to a cross on account of its necessary connection with all popes as well as the probability of its figuring, in some form or other, on the pope's arms.", p. 78; , p. 88.	
--Stebunik (talk) 21:54, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Crux de Cruce 

message: It is wrong to claim that any pope is or was the head of the Catholic Church, the head is Jesus Christ. 50.35.105.88 (talk) 19:26, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Head of the church is Jesus Christ