Talk:Bedřich Smetana

message: Lithuania's president Antanas Smetona bears the same family name as Bedřich Smetana, just original not slavised. Maybe anyone knows some relations between them? The family's name is of Lithuanian origin and comes from Lithuanian word 'susimetona' meaning that milks fat comes together after some time (and russian and lithuanian word for cream is smetana and smetona, respectively).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.218.116.185 (talk) 04:28, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Smetana is pretty common czech surname, also his family tree in Smetana museum in Prague doesn't indicate any family relations to Antanas Smetona. 193.85.237.10 (talk) 11:53, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Relations with Lithuania's president

message: I think, that the article is strange, as it tries to downgrade Smetana as a composer. Note, that Smetana could succesfully compose even when he was completely deaf (like Beethoven). I think that not many composers could ever do this. To speculate that he was a second class composer because of his little international acknowledgement is stupid, to compare him to other famous Czech composers is even more stupid, it is misunderstanding. Does any one speculate whether the popularity or Johann Strauss is "deserved"? Smetana's mostly national subjects are - not surprisingly - uninteresting for foreigners. He deserves his great popularity among the Czech people, no matter whether someone likes it or not. --85.207.59.18 (talk) 09:33, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: International recognition

message: According to last research of doc. MUDr. Jiří Ramba, DrSc., Smetana did not suffer from syphilis. High concentrations of quicksilver found in his body after his death (which led to a conclusion that Smetana had syphilis) were caused by a liniment containing quicksilver. Smetana suffered almost his whole life from inflammation of his jawbone which led also to his deafness. The research and conclusions are summarized in a book Slavné české lebky (Famous Czech Skulls), ISBN:8072623257. Miraceti 00:47, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Medical

message: You beat me to it! Just yesterday or the day before I came and looked at this page and it was in rough shape. I went looking for my old music history textbook, and by the time I actually found it today, the article was already written and sourced! WTG! Yipely 20:15, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WTG 

message: The article makes mention of the death of some of his children but does not mention his wife. A biography of a person should have a fairly sized paragraph at least about his wife, perhaps even how they met, when the married, how many kids etc. Were some of his kids talented also etc. Did his wife survive him, leave him or divorce him and how did this affect the man. NancyHeise  talk 15:19, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Family

message: During the next few days the article will be subject to a significant expansion. Please feel free to comment on this page on any aspect of the new material. When the changes are complete, the revised article will be sent to peer review for treatment. Brianboulton (talk) 11:23, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Excellent and precise info, thank you for expanding. I've access to many detailed Czech sources on Smetana and I can assist. --Vejvančický (talk) 21:21, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you. There is much work to do yet - for example the "Musical legacy" section is yet unwritten, and many in-line citations have still to be added. If there are factual errors, or the article is missing or misrepresenting important aspects of Smetana's life, I'd be pleased for any help you can give. The article should develop further over the next few days. Brianboulton (talk) 00:23, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Article reconstruction and extension

message: :Section Illnes and Death: The information about Smetana's syphilitic disease originates mainly in the medicinal studies by Prof.  H. Feldmann. According to Feldmann, the first symptoms of the disease appeared in March 1874 and gradually developed into the third stadium - gummata. Prof. Emanuel Vlček in his study "Bedřich Smetana: Fyzická osobnost a hluchota" (Bedřich Smetana: Physical personality and Deafness) informs that his tests (from 1999) proved the existence of antibodies against Treponema pallidum (a bacterium, which causes syphilis) in Smetana's exhumed body. Czech musicologist Jaroslav Smolka in his study "Osudové lásky Bedřicha Smetany" (Fateful Loves of Bedřich Smetana) hints, that Smetana had became infected by Italian singer Lella Ricci. Their research was, however, questioned by the Czech physician Doc. Jiří Ramba. Ramba in his detailed study "Slavné české lebky" (Famous Czech Skulls) disproved their arguments - the materials used for FTA-ABS test of Emanuel Vlček (115 years old mumified samples of muscular tissue of the exhumed Smetana's body) weren't absolutely suitable for the test, and the outcomes of the research aren't reliable. Ramba also notes, that Smetana suffered with severe pain, even though the primary and secondary phases of syphilis are rather painless. --Vejvančický (talk) 09:33, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I will be pleased to do this. Brianboulton (talk) 16:52, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Syphilitic? 

message: :Section Göteborg - last para, first sentence: After his marriage to Bettina in Prague on 10 June 1860, Smetana and his new wife... According to my sources, Smetana married Bettina Ferdinandiová on 10 July 1860 in Obříství.
::P.S. Her maiden name was Barbora (Bettina) Ferdinandiová, not Ferdinandova. I'll fix that. --Vejvančický (talk) 14:18, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Second marriage 

message: There are plenty of more relevant images in my sources. In the four-volume edition "Smetanovy zpěvohry" (Smetana Operas) (1948) you can find images of his wife, children, collaborators, posters of opera premiéres... In the book "Smetanova Prodaná nevěsta" (Smetana's Bartered Bride) (1962) I found image of the Provisional Theatre, pages of the autograph score of the opera, autograph of the libretto etc. Further examples of Smetana's autograph scores are in the books "Komorní skladby Bedřicha Smetany" (Chamber Compositions of Bedřich Smetana) (1945) and "Smetana - sborové skladby" (Smetana - Choral Works). I assume that English biographies and scholar works contain the same images. Is there any problem with copyright? Most of it is  in my opinion, but my knowledge of copyright traps is not perfect. I have all the books at my disposal, let me know, if needed. --Vejvančický (talk) 07:50, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, the English books are full of images of the kind you mention. The problem is that for use in Wikipedia they have to be PD in the United States, meaning that they have to have been published before 1923. Proof of publication means that we have to identify precisely the book/work and the date. The ages of the images are not themselves enough to guarantee PD. It is frustrating not to be able to use the best images, but I am working with a Wikipedia image expert to identify more  that we can use, and expect to post  better ones soon. Brianboulton (talk) 08:31, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I could ask for permission in the Prague Smetana Museum (official institute) - most of the documents related to Smetana is archived there. I have some experience with that, and it could be the easiest solution and spare the complicated work. I think it's worth a try. --Vejvančický (talk) 09:14, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, see what you can do. I need to concentrate on the text for the moment. Brianboulton (talk) 15:51, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

text: Please note that the permissions requested from museums are to "allow the photos to be used in any manner, commercial or otherwise" (either through acknowledging the pictures are in public domain, or licensing them under the GFDL or appropriate Creative Commons—see Wikipedia:Image copyright tags).  Permission to simply host them on Wikipedia do not make them "free" (copyrighted images can be used if they comply with the non free content criteria).  Permissions from the museums should be handled through the OTRS (see: Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission).  In the cases of foreign works, the key is usually to know the death of the author, but location of first publication if any also plays a crucial part.  Jappalang (talk) 07:02, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Images 

message: I just could not resist, knowing that I missed out on Brian's magnificent expansions on previous articles, but I have put up some things I found interesting about this man at DYK.  Jappalang (talk) 07:03, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't really know how DYK works, but thanks for the interest. Brianboulton (talk) 13:58, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Heads up on DYK 

message: I know the work is yet finished, but I think bringing these issues up early would be of help.
* "... he and Barbora would have seven surviving children together." consider me dense, but would someone miss the biological implication of the sentence and think that their seven include the five surviving daughters from the earlier marriage?
**I had imagined it was clear, but have added a bit for greater clarification. Brianboulton (talk) 13:56, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Impromptu review 

message: I have completed the draft extension of the article. There is still futher work to be done, notably in the lead and the "Music" section, and some general copyediting throughout. I shall be off-wikipedia until 3rd June; comments and suggestions on the work to date are meanwhile welcome, and I will be glad to address them on my return. Brianboulton (talk) 10:25, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Brian, I hope you have a great "off-wikipedia" time! I've had another look at the article and see that some information has been inserted about his family. I do not think it is enough. At the very least the Death and Illness section should mention surviving family members. A more desireable addition would maybe mention something about what these surviving family members or friends said about Smetana regarding how he affected their lives. It is not absolutely necessary but I find that most biographies of famous people contain this type of information, perhaps it is more of a "Legacy" section than a "Death and Illness" section. NancyHeise  talk 17:20, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Work in Progress

message: The article states that his cousin Louisa inspired his first work, Louia's Polka.  Is one of those spellings a typo? Karanacs (talk) 22:08, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, well spotted. It's Louisa's polka, now corrected. Thanks. Brianboulton (talk) 16:10, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Question

message: The article gives the pronunciation (correctly IMO) as [ˈsmɛtana] (accent on the first syllable) — yet both voices in the sound sample say [smɛˈtana]. The same speakers stress the name of Antonín Dvořák oddly too, in that article. I strongly suspect they are not really Czech. -- Picapica (talk) 09:18, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The pronunciation is strange, especially the male's voice is distorted (bad pronunciation (or perhaps the recording) of s and ř). --Vejvančický (talk | contribs) 09:31, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation 

message: We read in the article
" He attended concerts, visited the opera, listened to military bands and joined an amateur string quartet for whom he composed simple pieces." [we are speaking of later 1839-early 1840].
I'm curious to know wether this is actually reliable. There was no opera house in Prague in 1840 nor, as far as I can found, anything related whatsoever in Prague at that time.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.130.119.214 (talk) 18:40, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, quite. Even the National Theatre did not open until 1881. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:55, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Have you ever heard about the Estates Theatre or about Kotzen Theatre, to name few examples of opera houses in Prague established before 1800? Franz Anton von Sporck had invited an Italian opera company to perform in his Prague palace since 1724 and became the founder of the first permanent opera theater in the Bohemian lands. Czech and German operas were regularly performed in the Estates Theatre during the 1840s. František Škroup was an important popularizer of opera productions at that time. --Vejvančický (talk / contribs) 05:01, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: ... not to forget the premières of Don Giovanni in 1787 and La clemenza di Tito in 1791. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 06:48, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Many thanks for the info. Seems there is no problem, then. I have tried to expand the History section a little at Theatre of the Czech Republic. I'm sure it could be expanded a great deal more by those who have access to suitable sources. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:53, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Smetana's Youth — a problem 

message: Festive Symphonie, Op.6 appears to have no article, yet it is one of Smetana's greatest (largest) and most important works.  There are repeated references to the Austrian National Anthem, although most would recognise “Das Lied der Deutschen” (now the German Anthem) at the climax of the last movement.  Could someone please give a much better account of this work.  I would like to know more!  Thanks  SurreyJohn   (Talk) 09:44, 28 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Festive Symphonie, Op.6 

message: The article recently gave the stress on the second syllable.  I have surmised that the stress should actually be on the first syllable, based on a few things.  First, all of the classical music pronunciation guides I could find gave the pronunciation on the first syllable (for example, , , — the last from The Well-tempered Announcer: A Pronunciation Guide to Classical Music by Robert A. Fradkin).  Second, a number of sources (e.g., https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Czech_Language/Pronunciation#Stress) state that the stress in Czech is generally on the first syllable.  I know little about Czech (I gather the impression that stress is not as emphatic as in English), and my sources are not particularly good, but I did not find any faintly reliable sources giving the stress on the second syllable, as previously listed in the article.
Based on this, I have changed the article to give the stress on the first syllable, but I would appreciate knowledgeable guidance here, along with reputable sources. 2600:1702:3C1:1630:985B:9E32:5B57:7DF (talk) 02:32, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I am astonished that this could have happened. Czech was my birth-language, though it was quickly stifled by my parents (second-generation Czechs), who were horrified to realize I could not communicate with other young children in the neighborhood we were living in at the time, in Missouri. I retain a small vocabulary of several hundred words but, alas, cannot speak the language. Nevertheless, I have never heard the name pronounced with accent on anything but the first syllable, either within my extended family or the world at large.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 02:40, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: As a native speaker of the Czech language I can only confirm that the change you've made is correct. Vejvančický (talk / contribs) 05:44, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Děkuji mnohokrát.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 06:48, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Changing pronunciation 

message: I don't feel confident enough in my editing skills to attempt this change but there is a very obvious inconsistency in the article. All of the text gives his name as SMETana, whereas the audible information gives SmetAna. Since the audible info has, presumably, been provided by Czech contributors I think the textual pronunciation data needs amending.
Having spent nearly 60 years saying SMETana I am finding the correct pronunciation awkward. My personal tip is 'think Carlos Santana' - it rhymes perfectly! Dvcas1 (talk) 06:01, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: As mentioned in the discussion above, there is an accent only on the first syllable, and even that is a very weak accent and nothing that would necessitate spelling the name as "Smétana" or some such. Toccata quarta (talk) 06:31, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Smetana pronunciation 

message: User:Nikkimaria has been reverting my change to the references, citing WP:CITEVAR. However, WP:CITEVAR clearly states that it is standard practice to
* 
*  (see WP:DUPREF)
This is what we have right now; horrendous, redundant bloat:
*  
*  (Section 2) 
*  (Section 3) 
*  (Section 4) 
*  (Section 5) 
*  (Section 7) 
*  (Section 8)
I'm proposing to change this to a single reference
* 
with  references to the individual sections as needed. intforce (talk) 14:31, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Each of those references is to a different section, so DUPREF does not apply. However, we could change to short citations of the kind used for books. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:33, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: @Nikkimaria How does DUPREF not apply?  DUPREF directly states:  The sections in the Grove entry are not on different web pages. The Grove entry is a single page. Check for yourself. intforce (talk) 14:38, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: DUPREF refers to combining precisely duplicated citations, which these are not. Citations to different parts of the same source can be (but are not required to be) combined, but only with "any method that is consistent with the existing citation style" - which in this case does not include sfn. As I said, we could apply the same method as is used for books, should others agree with your concern. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:42, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't care whether we use  or "Ottlová (2020), Section 1". If I understand you correctly, you would prefer the latter, with each section added separately to "Sources"? intforce (talk) 14:52, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: The latter would not require adding each section separately to Sources; sections can be included only in short cites, just as pages are currently included there for books. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:01, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: So if I understand that correctly, what you are referring to is the same as my change, except using short cites instead of sfn? intforce (talk) 15:06, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

text: I don't feel strongly about this, but as I am one of several editors who keep an eye on the successful FACs of the late Brian Boulton I feel I should add my twopennorth. I have never felt it necessary to distinguish between sections of a Grove page, but I see absolutely no harm in doing so. It may speed the search of anyone wishing to follow up the citation. If pressed, I'd vote for Nikkimaria's expansion of the references, though I am too lazy to apply the same thing to any of the articles I have been involved with. Tim riley talk 14:49, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fixing duplicate references 

message: There is need for clarity about the date on which Smetana moved to Sibkenice. According to the biography by Brian Large, he stayed there as the guest of his daughter and son-in-law from July 1875 until mid-October 1875, after which he returned to Prague. In April 1876 he gave notice to his landlord in Prague and on 3 June 1876 he moved permanently to Sibkenice. (Large, pp. 297, 299 and 303–304). Tim riley talk 10:07, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: It is Jabkenice, not Sibkenice. All the Czech sources say he lived and worked there from 1875, initially as a guest of his daughter, and because of the high costs in Prague, he often stayed there, although not permanently until 1876. The year 1875 should be mentioned as the beginning of his stay in Jabkenice. I will return it with clarification. And btw this little confusion was not a reason for a complete revert of all changes. FromCzech (talk) 10:50, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Date of move to Sibkenice 

message: There is this photo from the Library of Congress of a better quality than current lead photo. Should it be used as the lead image? Artem.G (talk) 11:57, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: In my view, yes. Tim riley talk 14:48, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Better lead photo? 

message: Yet,the minor detail I added is in the main text, that’s where i found it, but led to his "subsequent" death is vague— could be a few months (which it was) or years. I checked the text to see which. Why not include the details so others are not left wondering? Wis2fan (talk) 03:55, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't work out what the above refers to or is trying to say. Any suggestions? Tim riley talk 07:29, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rejected revision.