Talk:Jesuit missions among the Guaraní

message: If you type in 'Jesuit Province of Paraguay', shouldn't it lead here? 165.146.177.74 19:32, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Jesuit Province of Paraguay

message: These Jesuits sound like saints. Universal literacy? My arse.
78.147.146.29 (talk) 22:18, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I completely agree. On the linguistic side, the work of those Jesuits was really impressive and they had similar projects even in Europe. They for example tried to codify my first language (Bavarian) and make it a standard language independent of today's Standard German. But the next year after they were banned in 1773, this project was canceled and Bavarian had the same fate as Guaraní ... it slowly vanished and was reduced to a dialect spoken only by uneducated people. --El bes (talk) 07:27, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. The article is full of POV and naive propaganda. For example how one hunderd Jesuits were able to "keep absolute power" and "ruthlessy exploit"? Or why the Guarani fiercely defended the missions against the Portugese despite of Jesuits requests to give up the fight? The introduction is as POV as Goebels' tyrade.Yeti (talk) 00:07, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Dear Yeti, you are using a parabula that shows that you have not much information about the historic discourse. This Mr. G., you are mentioning, never said anything but hate tyrades against Catholicism in general and especially about the Jesuits. Here he was in the even older tradition of Prussian anti-Jesuit propaganda, that was common even under intellectuals there. --El bes (talk) 03:23, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bias 

message: I have added a few more citations to this page and removed the tag.  This is in preparation for a fairly large merge of material that I intend to do from the rather large section under Guaraní, which is largely taken verbatim from the Catholic Encyclopedia.  The bulk of that information belongs here however, as that section is larger than the main article. Arkyan 18:17, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup and citing 

message: Have a look on the French page... we could get some information off there and improve this page. jackchen123 23/08/07  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/{
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Better and well balanced - see http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_j%C3%A9suite_du_ParaguayJsoufron (talk) 16:14, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  French page 

message: I'm not pleased with the opening of "Jesuit Reductions": "The Jesuit Reductions were a particular version of the general Spanish colonial strategy of building reductions...".
An explanation of what a "reduction" is ought to come first.  It's a settlement, according to the "Indian Reductions" article. D021317c 08:34, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you compare the Paraguay Reductions with the Patronato real system of cross and crown going together, you'll recognize an essential distinction: here the initiative is not the Conquistadores' search for gold but the protection of the indigenous peoples from exploitation.Jzsj (talk) 21:16, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opening sentence 

message: I have removed Gott's misunderstanding of, or wordplay with, the sense of "reductions", meaning "concentrations", in Spanish. Obviously, as far as the Spanish colonial authorities were concerned, acquiring "European civilization" would be raising up, not "reducing" the Indians. Richard Gott is neither a historian, nor a neutral source, and should be used with care. Johnbod (talk) 01:08, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The intention was not to push pov as your edit summary suggests. Quite simply I had a real life interruption and had not finished that paragraph. (Also removed the refs from the lead to reformat, which I see you've done.) Thanks for the input. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 02:23, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gott in himmel 

message: I plan to expand this article as it seems to me to need more detail and balance between what was good and what was bad about the reductions.  But I also notice that the title is misleading.  "Jesuit Reductions" is the title, but Jesuit reductions took place in about 10 regions in South America and several in North America -- and this article only covers one area, the Guarani reductions, with brief mentions of a couple of others.  The article might be titled "Jesuit Reductions in South America" with additional material regarding other Jesuit reductions added. Or it could be titled "Jesuit Reductions with the Guarani" or "Jesuit reductions in Paraguay."  (The latter title is a bit confusing because most of the reductions were located in what is now Brazil or Argentina, rather than Paraguay. Paraguay used to be larger.  
Any opinions?  Smallchief (talk  (talk) 23:52, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Title is misleading

message: At the moment anybody reading the article would get the impression that the Spanish authorities had an idealistic motive:
 etc.
It was the Jesuits – answerable to the Pope alone – who had this idealistic objective.  There is no evidence of any idealism on the part of the colonial authorities: quite the contrary.  That's why,  when the the Jesuits were expelled from the Spanish Empire, the reducciones lasted no  time at all.  The Indians were just exploited for their labour, following the usual colonial pattern, and soon ran away.
I suspect this misleading wording comes from an earlier draft.  But it's time to put it right. Ttocserp 16:53, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Should distinguish Jesuits more from Spanish government

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thread_title:  External links modified