Talk:Joyce Hatto

message: I have added her Boston Globe obituary. Capitalistroadster 05:51, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Obituary

message: The Gramophone, a reliable source, believes there are something fishy about many of the recordings.  See .
Several days ago, another Gramophone critic decided to listen to a Hatto Liszt CD, of the 12 Transcendental Studies. He put the disc into his computer to listen, and something awfully strange happened. His computer's player identified the disc as, yes, the Liszts, but not a Hatto recording. Instead, his display suggested that the disc was one on BIS Records, by the pianist Lászlo Simon. Mystified, our critic checked his Hatto disc against the actual Simon recording, and to his amazement they sounded exactly the same. 
More astonishing revelations were to come. The pair then checked a track from a Hatto disc of music by Godowsky, and found that it sounded strange, as if the sound had been tampered with. After running checks, they found that the music had indeed been manipulated – the time had been stretched by an “audacious” 15.112% (such an extreme stretch accounted for the odd sound) to alter the tone, but that if the stretch was reversed it became clear that the track was identical to that played by the pianist Carlo Grante on a CD issued by Altarus. 
It would take many weeks of intensive work to examine all of the Hatto recordings, but it seems clear that at least some of these great performances are identical to other performances available from other recording companies. Contacted for his comments, Barrington-Coupe – who acknowledged that he produced well-nigh all of his wife’s recordings – was at a loss to explain the similarity.  Are the Hatto’s fakes? If so, how many? This, it must be suspected, is a story that won’t go away until the full truth is known.
Pretty damning so far.  Should be covered in the article.  --70.48.70.219 03:06, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Added a paragraph on this. --Tagishsimon (talk) 03:18, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

text: This article has been edited in the last day or so to remove all the original opening material. She was a reasonable and competent pianist in her concert days; it is only the post-retirement records that appear to be fake. A person coming here and looking at this article would think she was nothing but a hoax. This is very misleading. For all we know she was dying and unaware of it, and it was her husband doing it all. But she was a real pianist for many years. 23:51, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  This is a fascinating story! I went to a recital by Joyce Hatto at (I'm pretty sure) the Queen Elizabeth Hall in London something like 35 years ago (so it must have been right at the end of her performing career), and I remember that it was really quite bad, especially given the prestigious venue. From what I remember there were lots of wrong notes, and generally insensitive and heavy-handed playing. AndrewWTaylor 23:29, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Her husband has effectively admitted the fraud. Of course, it's possible that Joyce knew of this, but there may be no way to know this unless subsequent apologies/admittals are published. So for the time being, it is fraud, and it has been proven. --Otheus 17:39, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Allegations of Fakery from RS 

message: I have requested semi-protection of this article because of the edits from 80.47.*.*. Sam Blacketer 22:26, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I put a very short protection on - can extend if need be. Plus I blocked both IP adresses for a week. Hopefully that will be enough, let me know if it's not. Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 22:45, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Note, Joyce Hatto (not this wiki article) just got slashdotted. --Otheus 23:39, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

text: And yesterday, dugg. --Otheus 01:58, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

text: The discography is not commercial material, it is a list of commercial material.  It's the equivalent of Wikipedia listing the cons pulled off by a famous con-man; listing those cons is not "hosting" them. (210.160.15.16 00:06, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The discography looks very detailed to me as if it's been copied and pasted from a web site or something. And as such seems likely to infringe copyright. The fact that it's a list of commercial material doesn't mean it's not in itself copyright - almost any non-trivial list of anything is copyright. Even a price list is copyright. Ben Finn 18:24, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: True, but the question was about "commercial material", not "copyrighted material", and it was about whether it should be hosted "where such severe and strongly evidenced allegations have been made".  That is, it seems to me that the asker is saying "why should we advertise a fraud", not "why should we host copyrighted materials".  I put forth that listing a list of cons is not advertising, and whether or not it should be published has nothing to do with whether or not its a con.  As for whether copyrighted materials should be published or not, that's a totally different question altogether, but, again, one where the answer does NOT change based on whether the "severe and strongly evidenced allegations have been made". (124.101.242.85 22:47, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protection request 

message: The New York Times and International Herald-Tribune stories appear to be identical. (I believe the IHT reprints stories from the Times and other papers). The article should probably only link to one -- which would be better? -- Perodicticus 21:05, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Links 

message: This entry provides a central place for people to post the identity of the actual performers when they are discovered.  Please stop whoever it is that keeps removing that information!
:Please sign your posts. --Otheus 23:40, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stop Removing the correctly identified performances 

message: A newly added reference is baseless speculation and should probably be removed: "notes that she might have died in 2002 the interviews being posthumously given over the phone by someone with a "girlish voice"".
:The speculation is now sourced to a personal blog, which is reporting it in turn as a rumor on the newsgroups.  I don't think either can be taken as a suitable source in this matter. -- Antaeus Feldspar 21:18, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I put it there because it might prove useful the more we hear about this whole thing. Of course, ref-like footnotes at wiki are somewhat new, and I don't think clear guidelines have been set concerning their usage.  But if you removed it, I wouldn't put it back in. --Otheus 02:01, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, if you mean Cite.php-style footnotes (with the  tags) they're newish, but they're only a different way to format citations.  The real issue is that so far we only have anonymous people, or people whose credentials we don't know, offering us this speculation -- not reliable sources.  If an RS advances this speculation, then we can include it, but we don't know how carefully the dude advancing this speculation currently thought out the evidence of the situation. -- Antaeus Feldspar 05:35, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Posthumous interview speculation

message: Does the term pirated really apply in the first line? The recordings were not really pirated so much as copied or plagiarized. I just don't think the word fits.Straterp 20:53, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, the first paragraph is out of line. It is not yet fact. It may very well turn out that way,it looks pretty solid, but that point is not here yet. The first paragraph is VERY biased. 24.116.200.178 21:45, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pirated? 

message: changed the following in the intro paragraph:
:After her death, it was claimed that many or all of these recordings were the work of other pianists.
to
:After her death, it was claimed that many or all of these recordings were the work of other pianists, thus making her the most prolific hoax in musical history.
No citation was given.  It may be that a similar statement was indeed made by a RS (though we'd probably have to qualify it with a statement that if the charges made are true, then she would be, etc.)  But without a source, I think it's better to remove it. -- Antaeus Feldspar 02:21, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone finally posted a citation  (but I didn't bother to verify.) --Otheus 17:40, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Biggest hoax claim 

message: Currently the first paragraph describes the recordings issued under Hatto's name as "covering a vast swathe of the piano repertoire."  I don't really get what phrase is supposed to mean; I would understand it if it referred to her repertoire but I've never heard of "the piano repertoire".  Can we clarify this phrasing? -- Antaeus Feldspar 18:15, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not only is the phrase unclear, but it smacks of POV.  I'm not saying it is POV, but that it sounds like it. --Otheus 04:10, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "covering a vast swathe of the piano repertoire"? 

message: An anonymous user added "record producer" to the lead.  No additional references were added nor additional discussions mention this. My guess is the user meant to say that she was a recorded artist, but, uh, that is uh, rather obvious from the next sentence.  Should we strike this phrase? --Otheus 09:14, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My guess would be that the user simply made the assumption "wife of the producer of her own records" == "co-producer of her own records" == "record producer".  Either way, however, yes, I think we should strike it. -- Antaeus Feldspar 14:44, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Record Producer? 

message: An IP user removed the following line:
:Hatto's early discography can be found online at the British Library in The British Library Sound Archive ([3]).
Does anyone know what's wrong with this?  --Otheus 07:17, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I was wondering too, as it looked fine to me. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 12:54, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Well, the good news is that someone went and got the actual material. But if it's true, it would still be useful to include. --Otheus 02:04, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Early Discography 

message: Music doesnt wear a mask therefore the section title about unmasked is inaccurate original research, these recordings were digitally manipulated and this is what we should stick with, SqueakBox
::While we're being pedantic about the semantics of metaphors, you might want to refer to Lakoff and Johnson's Metaphors_We_Live_By (which redirects to a generalized article on the book's topic). After reading that, then we can have that discussion :) --Otheus 17:43, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Try typing unmask definition into the Google search box.  The verb means 'To disclose the true character of; expose'.  That is what has been done to the "Hatto" recordings.  "Recordings digitally manipulated" doesn't explain the significance of this case.  Virtually every recording on the market is digitally manipulated to some extent, with different takes combined, levels altered, reverberation added, etc.  It is the fact that the "Hatto" recordings have been exposed as not what they are claimed to be that is unusual and of significance.Stesimbrotus 18:42, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

text: It's not OR to look up a definition to see if something is connotatively correct or not. Unmasked is properly used in this instance, whether you like it or not. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 23:34, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Mask

message: The firm statement about what Gracenote can or cannot do is not supplied with a reference and may be incorrect. Gracenote has no difficulty whatever identifying individual tracks once they have been copied. Its behaviour with compilation CDs (in effect what some of the Concert Artist CDs are) seems quite complicated. The individual who discovered the fraud may have been working from digital copies, not from the CD. Unless someone has exhausted the possible approaches to this question, using both the Hatto CD and mp3s or other versions of individual tracks from that CD perhaps the claim about Gracenote should be suppressed? It is not an integral part of the 'mystery'.
:Since the Gracenote claim made it into reliable sources, I don't think we should "suppress" it but we should be alert for any corrections to it, and note it as a claim published by those sources, not as "what happened".
:What we really need to keep an eye on is the discussion of Usenet groups and the growing amount of material sourced to them, because ordinarily Usenet posts are just about the last thing to qualify as RS.  I think we may have some exceptions here -- for instance, to support the point that questions were raised about the originality of the recordings even before Hatto's death, I believe we could cite a Usenet post raising those questions.  The only thing the source is being called on to verify is, essentially, its own existence and own contents, and that it can do.  But the things that haven't been proven yet or apparently even suggested by reliable sources -- for instance, that Rene Kohler is a fictional individual whose name was taken from Irene Kohler -- we can't just put that in the article because "it has been conjectured (by someone on Usenet)". -- Antaeus Feldspar 03:55, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We can certainly use Usenet archives as the source of "what happened" (I should hope, anyway), but we couldn't use statements there as the source of anything not meta-referencing. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 11:39, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What specifically do you mean by "what happened"? Most Usenet postings can only be used to source themselves -- i.e., that a particular post with particular content was made -- but not for much else -- for instance, not even for the true identity of that poster, or that any of the claims made in the post were correct. -- Antaeus Feldspar 02:30, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: What does Gracenote 'know'?

message: Seriously. It looks like things are going in circles -- without direct reversions, it's hard to tell (and semi-protection wouldn't help), but I see the same words returning and leaving, and returning, etc... Any ideas? :/ ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 02:26, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right.  I don't know the answer.  I got rid of the potted biographies of various Usenet and web pundits, since they add considerable bulk without contributing anything of substance and don't belong in a Joyce Hatto entry anyway, but someone put them back in.  I'll try getting rid of them again and see what happens.  Perhaps anyone who does restore them could argue out the case for their inclusion on this page.Stesimbrotus 03:33, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I also agree. I don't want to keep fixing the same basic facts, such as the date in the sentence:  Nobody came forward until the Gramophone published its first serious evidence in an Internet article on February 18, 2007, which should be February 15, 2007. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.46.231.222 (talk) 03:58, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Going in circles... 

message: He has admitted the deception to Robert Bahr of BIS (and subsequently to Gramophone) in another wheedling self-exculpatory letter. I made a couple of amendments to the article to reflect this and included a link. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Charles Avis (talk • contribs) 
:Should this article be added to :Category:Hoaxes now? Sam Blacketer 14:45, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Vote yes --Otheus 17:44, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've already been WP:BOLD and done it, into the subcategory :Category:Musical hoaxes. Sam Blacketer 22:10, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Barrington-Coupe has confessed

message: This time it goes the other way. A series of cassettes of Cortot is listed by an ebay seller claiming they are mostly by Hatto! I reproduce the listing below. I am not the seller.
"Cortot (bogus) plays Chopin: 4 cassettes, used, in excellent condition:
Vols. 1-3: complete Chopin Mazurkas. Concert Artists CE4-TC-7001-7003
Cortot plays Chopin Ballades and Impromptus (actually Cortot); Polonaise Fantasie (bogus). Concert Artists CE4-TC-7006.
Before the Joyce Hatto scam arose, her enterprising label issued a series of cassettes in 1986 labelled as previously unissued recordings by Cortot. Anyone with ears and a touch of intelligence would have heard a pianist with absolutely no resemblance to Cortot (except for the Ballades and Impromptus). Perhaps the pianist is actually Hatto? Whomever it is, mediocrity was their standard.
This fascinating early attempt at musical forgery went virtually undetected by critics and pundits even then, leading to a larger scale deception recently exposed ad nauseum.
While of slight musical value, these objects are indeed rare and might serve as useful evidence for any eventual trials or simply for the pleasure of collecting."
Really, all the activities of Concert Artist now need unpacking.
--Charles Avis 09:10, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is an article on Concert Artists. Let's move or at least propagate this discussion there. --Otheus 09:31, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Earlier Concert Artist cassettes may be fakes

message: This morning someone added a claim to the article of what the "earliest documented identification of plagiarism" was.  The link provided, http://mazurka.org.uk/info/present/cambridge-20061128/cambridge-20061128-1up.pdf, is problematic, as it is just a set of PowerPoint-style slides; one slide titled "Purely Coincidental" shows two similar-looking visual depictions and is accompanied by the text "Two difference performances from two different performers on two different record labels from two different countries."  Obviously, in the original presentation, the presenter's irony could come through and it at least could be clear that Hatto was referred to but here it doesn't do the job very effectively.
Even if we use this article which spells out the point of the presentation, we still have a problem.  Namely, that the article is by Nicholas Cook and Craig Sapp and User:Craigsapp is the editor who added the link to the article.  There's a conflict of interest there, especially when we're dealing with a question of who was "earliest" with some achievement. -- Antaeus Feldspar 16:39, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But see the slides titled 'Correlation network' and 'Correlation tree': from these it's clear enough that the identification has been made.  Still it's arguable that this work should receive slightly less prominence since they didn't go public with it until the Gramophone story appeared.Stesimbrotus 18:03, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You can also make inferences from my edit history of the Joyce Hatto page which cannot be forged by myself.  Craigsapp 18:30, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  COI material added 

message: To balance or correct the statement "Her performances were not received with much enthusiasm by the critics." I added the paragraph that begins "On the other Hand..."  -- I don't know how to make the footnotes, but here are the online references: "The Guardian reports" references http://www.guardian.co.uk/obituaries/story/0,,1816612,00.html and "The Telegraph reports" references http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/07/28/db2803.xml .  I expect they might be incorporated into that area, as these quotes not added before could even be said to be quite 'hype'-like. - Atraveler 19:30, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A very useful balancing addition, Atraveler. I've put in your references, and made it clear that Cardus is a name to be respected - in fact he was the most respected English music critic of the era, and his opinion of Hatto (at the time) must be given considerable weight. In view of Cardus' approval, I've changed "Her performances were not received with much enthusiasm by the critics" to "Her performances drew mixed notices from the critics.".-- Jmc 21:55, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  It's possible that Cardus did say these things, but I'd feel happier if someone could track down the reference for the original publication, or at least some evidence that the Brahms concert ever took place.  There's a danger that these quotations were just invented by Hatto and Barrington-Coupe (and provided to those writing biographies and obituaries) to make her career seem more distinguished than it actually was.Stesimbrotus 23:21, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Yes, fair point, Stesimbrotus, given what's been revealed of B-C's duplicity and journalists' gullibilty. Still, one would've hoped that someone in The Guardian would've been given the task of checking their own files for the source of the quotation. You can be sure that's what would've been done in Cardus' day! -- Jmc 01:03, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  All good points.  I wonder if someone has contacted Jeremy Nicholas and the writer of The Telegraph obituary to get their earlier sources.  I might try.  I did think Jeremy would have checked The Guardian's own records for their critic's statements, but these days people can be a bit casual! - Atraveler 22:56, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Career material added 

message: An IP user just added this note. I wonder... isn't it the usual practice of news outlets to somehow verify the publishing of an obit? --Otheus 01:49, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I think we'll take this out. At best, it's ambiguous - could mean there's a possibility she might still be alive. --Jmc 02:29, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Jessica Duchen's Independent article (http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/music/features/article2308651.ece) has a contribution from her hospital consultant which confirms the basic facts, so her death isn't in doubt.  The precise date (29th or 30th) given varies from obituary to obituary (30th: http://www.gramophone.co.uk/newsMainTemplate.asp?storyID=2589&newssectionID=1 ; 29th: http://www.boston.com/news/globe/obituaries/articles/2006/07/04/joyce_hatto_at_77_pianist_was_prolific_recording_artist/ ), but this discrepancy is easily accounted for if she died during the night.Stesimbrotus 04:40, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hatto's death not verified 

message: I believe something is now needed about Hatto's own participation in the fraud, however unclear that remains. I've added (under 'Recordings unmasked ') a paragraph with a couple of references. Editing (but not removal!) welcomed. -- Jmc 19:56, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nicely done, Jmc! --Otheus 10:51, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hatto's own involvement 

message: Following further off-line correspondence with the indefatigable Hatto researcher Andrys Basten, I've given a more precise dating to the revival of interest in Hatto: under 'Career', I've added to the sentence beginning "From 2003 onwards …" ", sparked by a blind-listening test in December 2002 posted on ThePiano Yahoo group featuring a recording under Hatto's name of Liszt's Mephisto Waltz." This does indeed appear to be the event that began the resurgent interest in Hatto via the CA CDs.
Given the two very distinct phases that Hatto's career falls into, it could be advisable to have a second subhead for the part of the article beginning "In her last years …"? (possibly not with the title "Hatto's Second Coming ", though!) -- Jmc 20:28, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dating Hatto's Second Coming 

message: Thanks very much, Musicarius, for your fascinating added paragraph on Roberge's posting of May 2005 about a misreading in Hatto's performance of Godowsky's Chopin Study No. 2, and please excuse my condensation and moving of detail to the footnote. To have left that amount of detail in the article itself would've greatly unbalanced it. The rest of this section on 'Later Attributed Recordings' is necessarily condensed as well and, following the editing, your added paragraph now has a roughly similar level of detail. IMO. -- Jmc 00:26, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Roberge identification of Chopin-Godowsky original, 2005 

message: I think perhaps that to get an introduction that satisfies everyone, we need to determine which of the pieces of information we know are actually key points which should be included in the introduction so that someone who doesn't go on to read the article will still get a good overview.  (Keep in mind that we are only talking about leaving these points out of the introduction, not leaving them out of the article.)  I'm going to suggest various points that might be considered key (restricting myself to the points on which we seem to have some disagreement; please add your opinion (whether you support its inclusion in the introduction) and your reasoning.  Also feel free to add various points if you think they might be viable additions to the introduction. -- Antaeus Feldspar 21:21, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that's a different point than any of the above, so I'll add it separately. -- Antaeus Feldspar 02:29, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

text: The 'breadth' of her repertoire grew as did ample word of mouth well before news of the "heroic struggle" which was not made public until Richard Dyer wrote about it in Aug 2005.  The sheer output at a consistently high level (in general) was one reason it came to his attention.  He even mentions 119 CDs by that time, including full sets of a wide range of composers.  This output and its reception were the driving factors for attention until Aug 2005, when the cancer was disclosed by Dyer.  MANY pianists have made many excellent recordings but not 119 involving so many composers and works.  Internet forums had much talk about "Hatto" -- from January 2003, over 2-1/2 years -- with much of it questioning the vast output vs no reviews by major critics.  And then came Dyer's report, which was a sort of Seal of Approval. Along with that, then, came the much-mentioned 'sob story' which too often is given as the main reason for the interest in her recordings.  It wasn't, not for the first 2.5 yrs. It really was the quantity and breadth accompanied by consistently high quality. -Atraveler 14:19, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just on the question of when knowledge of her illness became public: see http://groups.google.com/group/rec.music.classical.recordings/msg/58650e6f5a5cfd2c : 'Joyce Hatto who it seems is now in very poor health has recorded extensively' (Jan. 25 2003, from a representative of MusicWeb, which was one of the first online stores to offer Concert Artist CDs: presumably the knowledge came through Barrington-Coupe).Stesimbrotus 16:37, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "...in very poor health" was a quite vague statement, and it was ignored from what I saw. I don't remember more word on that until mid-2005, around the time Dyer wrote about it. -Atraveler 18:25, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Currently no mention of BC is made in the introduction.  Surely both he and his implication in the hoax should be mentioned in the introduction? --Starwed 11:18, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Feel free to show your support in the outline above. --Otheus 11:33, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't support any of the mentions of BC in the above outline.  I'm just point out that, in removing unnecessary details about him, all reference to him has been removed. :)  --Starwed 05:23, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: What are the key points?

message: Although over 100 recordings are said to have appeared, is it known how many of these did in fact appear? How many are listed but had never been manufactured and distributed? --Charles Avis 00:42, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Later Attributed Recordings

message: Is this in some kind of order (eg, the order they were exposed in, perhaps), or not? If not I'll be happy to rearrange by composer surname. Lethe 19:39, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The hoax recordings table 

message: I don't want to offend anyone, but this looks more like a pink press article than a wikipedia article. For example: "The consultant radiologist said she was never diagnosed cancer before 1992." Who cares? She is dead, her husband dishonoured forever and that's all. Tell the story of her life, and leave the speculations and morbid aside.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.0.13.51 (talk) 17:05, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Who cares? Anyone interested in the (elusive) truth about Hatto. Speculations? Point to them. You'd have to do better than this, 88.0.13.51, in backing your opinion that "this looks more like a pink press article". -- Jmc (talk) 20:28, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

text: "The story of her life" includes the cause of her death. Grover cleveland (talk) 06:40, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pink Press 

message: User:Lverqlv has been deleting the following material from the page:
"Those praising the recordings included Tom Deacon, a former record producer for Philips, who produced the Great Pianists series, Bryce Morrison, a long-time reviewer for Gramophone, Jed Distler, a reviewer for Classics Today, Ateş Orga, a music critic who also wrote some of the liner notes for Concert Artist, as well as an obituary, and Ivan Davis, a well-known professional pianist."
User:Lverqlv has stated to me that he feels the following source does not meet Wikipedia's guidelines for verifiability:  http://www.moreintelligentlife.com/story/joyce-hatto-the-great-piano-swindle
As I interpret Wikipedia guidelines, this source is eminently reliable.  It is from a published online source, it is not a personal blog, nor is it a chatroom which was User:Lverqlv's original complaint when deleting the material.  That is how this source came to be added.  
Question: Should the section stay, or go?THD3 (talk) 14:49, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Source Dispute

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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I have just modified 3 external links on Joyce Hatto. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070623195019/http://www.classicstoday.com/features/022607-mywife.asp to http://www.classicstoday.com/features/022607-mywife.asp
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070623195019/http://www.classicstoday.com/features/022607-mywife.asp to http://www.classicstoday.com/features/022607-mywife.asp
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120303115130/http://www.pristineclassical.com/HattoHoax.html to http://www.pristineclassical.com/HattoHoax.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 18:01, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 5 external links on Joyce Hatto. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070928040322/http://mazurka.org.uk/info/present/cambridge-20061128/cambridge-20061128-1up.pdf to http://mazurka.org.uk/info/present/cambridge-20061128/cambridge-20061128-1up.pdf
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080116002134/http://www.pristineclassical.com/HattoHoax6.html to http://www.pristineclassical.com/HattoHoax6.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070927021029/http://www.lsus.edu/sc/math/rmabry/HattoGate/ to http://www.lsus.edu/sc/math/rmabry/HattoGate/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070926234340/http://www.prokofiev.org/forum/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=7&Topic=804 to http://www.prokofiev.org/forum/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=7&Topic=804
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070224135626/http://www.radionz.co.nz/cfm/programmes/upbeat/20070219 to http://www.radionz.co.nz/cfm/programmes/upbeat/20070219
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 21:12, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Joyce Hatto. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150820204412/http://www.pristineclassical.com/HattoHoax5.html to http://www.pristineclassical.com/HattoHoax5.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 21:25, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018)