Talk:Asian Americans/Archive 1

message: The Criminal issues section reads:
:In fact, Asians make up such a small percentage of the criminal population that the Department of Justice often does not present specific data for Asians when accounting for criminals by race.
It is common practice not to present disaggregated data (in this case "Asian-specific") where the percentage is very small.  The wording of the article ("In fact;" "such a small percentage") makes it sound as though non-disaggregation is a special privilege for non-criminal Asians.  Apologies, but I find it easier to write this critique than to reword.  --ishu 22:35, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criminal issues 

message: I removed the following:
:Asian Americans are often overrepresented at many educational institutions that do not practice affirmative action
since the proportion of Asian Americans is much higher than 3% at many institutions that do practice Affirmative Action, Harvard being only one example.  We can discuss admissions practices that appear to put a "ceiling" on Asian populations, but the removed statement implies a lot of cause and effect that is highly controversial. --ishu 05:21, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ishu, a good edit. Also, I don't like the term "overrepresented" because of it connotes that one is getting more than is warranted, and am glad to see another way of stating it. Fuzheado | Talk 05:41, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Affirmative Action reference

message: I removed the following:
:This is an artifact of "Asian American" being a synonym for "oriental," which derives from a Latin word meaning "East." 
I don't think that 'Asian American' is, or was intended to be, a synonym for 'oriental'.  The idea is that the term 'Oriental' is imprecise due to its complicated and convoluted etymology.  At different times it has to the Ottoman Empire and its descendants, and everything east to the Pacific Ocean.  The usage in the U.S. during the mid- to late-20th century was narrower, but ill-defined.  The other objection has been its colonial origin and associated connotations, referencing "east" relative to Europe.   Asia is a defined land mass.  On it are reasonably well-defined political states.  There are somewhat well-defined ethnic groups within/across those.  The reference is clear and more precise.  --ishu 18:29, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: 'Asian American' = 'oriental' ?

message: Why isn't the definition simply, "an American of Asian ancestry or an Asian immigrant to the United States"? Someone who was born in the United States is not necessarily an American.
:(above question posted by 128.226.195.158 on May 1)
That's a good question. Any objection to changing it? — Sebastian (talk) 02:36, 2005 May 16 (UTC)
:I object.  For reference, the current definition reads:
::An Asian American can be generally defined as a person of Asian ancestry or origin who was born in or is an immigrant to the United States.
:The current definition clearly defines (and distinguishes between) the two key attributes of being Asian American:  (1) Asian ancestry; and (2) a definable relationship to the United States.  The second part clearly avoids defining American, which requires an extensive disambiguation page (also see Use of the word American).  The relationship clause also provides criteria to indicate who is included (citizen by birth or immigrant) and who is excluded (e.g., tourists).  They're not airtight (e.g., a tourist overstaying a visa for work), but at least they're debatable on their own terms.  
:Using the word American in the definition of Asian American (as proposed above) raises more questions than it answers.  We can debate how to define the relationship to the United States, but the definition should be clear.  The current definition is wordy (i.e., could be improved), but it is conceptually clear.  
:Asian Americans have featured roles in several major controversies and legal legacies (e.g., Ozawa and Thind) over what defines American.  I think it is important to explicitly include immigrants and natural-born citizens in the definition to make it clear that citizenship is not required to be included in the definition.  Since Asian immigrants were denied citizenship for most of U.S. history, many people would argue that they are not "Americans" since they are not citizens.   It is important to specify that Asian Americans include citizens and non-citizens, immigrants and natural-born citizens.  
:As an aside, there are plenty of European Americans who are citizens by birth but who reside abroad.  For the most part, these people are considered to be Americans, both by people in the U.S. and in their host/home countries.  
:--ishu 18:31, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Definition 

message: I changed the reference to the Philppine-American War to "also see" since the existing sentence implied that immigration to the U.S. was a result of the Philippine-American War.  The annexation (or whatever we choose to call it) of the Philippines is what enabled the immigration, not the ensuing insurrection.  --ishu 22:25, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Philippine-American War 

message: I am removing the link to www.selectiveasia.com because it clearly does not add anything to the article. --vaeiou 02:15, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  removing link 

message: I think that the demographics section is getting too mired in minutiae.  
I changed the reference to East Brunswick, New Jersey back to Cherry Hill, New Jersey because of the earlier reference to Philadelphia, not because I think Cherry Hill is more important than East Brunswick.  I appended "of these cities" to "suburbs" to clarify this relationship and hopefully prevent link-creep to an endless list of suburbs.  For Pete's sake, if we must reference Middlesex County, then a better candidate is adjacent Edison Township, which has twice as many Asian Americans and is well known in the region for the South Asian district there, as well as a significant Chinese American population.  But the suburbs of New York are better known as enclaves for Asian Americans; those of Chicago, Philadelphia and Boston less so, which is the reason for the original reference to Cherry Hill.  
Unfortunately, once something goes in an entry (e.g., this suburbs discussion), it's hard to take it out.  This might be a good case for reduction, or moving to another section.  The proportion of Filipinos to Chamorros is not irrelevant, but it isn't quite on-point with respect to aggregate demographics of Asian Americans.  For example, the specific ethnicities within any particular state are not discussed in this section, and are more appropriate topics for the individual state articles.
--ishu 07:53, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think this is a reasonable concern.  I added the link (List of U.S. cities with Asian American majority populations) under the Demographics section. Perhaps another list should be created to say List of U.S. cities with large Asian American population. Mikefzhu 02:01, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Demographics 

message: Are Ichiro Suzuki and Yao Ming, two people who are Japanese and Chinese citizens respectively, considered "Asian Americans?"  I think they should be omitted from this article, as they are not "American citizens with Asian ancestry", unlike Michelle Kwan.  I have a feeling that a few other people mentioned in this article are not Asian Americans, although I haven't checked this.  I would really appreciate some input.--Xmts 03:23, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think they should be removed too. --Lukobe 05:54, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Asian Americans in Sports

message: It seems like people just basically drop any site in the External Links section that's related to Asian Americans.  It's getting a little cluttered.  Perhaps there is a way to categorise the links listed there?  Hong Qi Gong 21:51, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Categorising External Links? 

message: I removed the list of high schools with "high" Asian populations as it reached nine, with no end in sight.  Users are invited to create a page "High schools with significant Asian American populations" or similar.  --ishu 16:14, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Demographic Trends:  Secondary Schools 

message: I feel that real-life pictures are okay as long as they are balanced.  There should be equal amounts of men and women portrayed and equal amounts of East, Southeast, and South Asians.  Please, find two Southeast Asian faces and a South Asian woman for the Asian page.Please write an agreement if you agree that my pictures should be on the page.  
thumb|The term 'Asian' refers to the people having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian Subcontinent. 2000 U.S. Census 
Asian faces which represent the Far East, Southeast Asia and the Indian Subcontinent. 
Asian faces which represent the Far East, Southeast Asia and the Indian Subcontinent.
Asian faces which represent the Far East, Southeast Asia and the Indian Subcontinent.
:I don't think these belong in an encyclopedia article. --Lukobe 05:59, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They barely belong on this talk page. — Indi [ talk ] 23:12, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Balance of Asian faces

message: There is no mention of the demands that thousands of Asian American children place on the nation's public school systems and social service networks w/regard to ESL programs, etc.  The section treating immigration is hopelessly outdated.  It doesn't treat the many thousands of Asians smuggled into the U.S. annually, and the criminal activity associated with this activity.  The section on crime is also pretty thin, considering the increasing incidence of prostitution rings, sexual slavery and gangs in the U.S.  See the following sources for more information:
*Asian prostitution rings on rise. Brothels are spreading beyond major U.S. cities, by Steve Kanigher, Las Vegas Sun, September 25, 2000
At a website called the Coalition Against Trafficking of Women - U.S.:
*5,000 women of Chinese descent are in prostitution in Los Angeles alone. (Kathryn McMahon, Daniel B. Wood, "A Crusade to Free Captive Daughters," Christian Science Monitor, 12 March 1998) 
*Chinese women are being trafficked into the United States for brothels in New York and North Carolina. They are held in $40,000 debt bondage. ("Chinese women ‘forced into prostitution’ in US," BBC, 3 March 1998) 
*Traffickers force Chinese immigrants into indentured servitude, women into prostitution and men into the restaurant business. In September 1998, 153 men and 21 women, including 35 juveniles, arrived in San Diego, California from China via Mexico, after paying smugglers $30,000. In 1997, 69 and in 1993, 650 Chinese immigrants were intercepted in the same area. If caught by immigration (INS) officials, most will be sent back to China, unless they receive political asylum. The smugglers may face jail time in the United States. (Paula Story, "Chinese Immigrant Boat Reaches US," Associated Press Online, 19 September 1998) 
Chinese women and girls in domestic and sexual slavery in the U.S. is on the rise with illegal immigration.
Tong and other Asian gangs are active and spreading in a number of cities across the U.S. -- notably in Maryland, Virginia, Chicago and New York.
Lest raising of these issues be interpreted as arising from anti-immigrant bias, let me say flat out that is not the case.  In comparing the seeming endless, ad nauseam examination of issues related to African-Americans in African American and a companion article -- yes, an entire article -- African American contemporary issues -- I see no parallel examination of such issues in articles treating other ethnic groups in the nation -- and none here.  Balance.  deeceevoice 17:39, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The crime section was added last week.  The Immigration history section began at the beginning.  It's not outdated, merely incomplete.  By all means, please do add needed content to this article or create a new article.  --ishu 18:50, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Public education, illegal immigration, gangs and crime

message: I removed the recently added paragraph about Wang Lee Hom as an Asian American entertainer that's gained fame in Asia, basically because that would have been the start of a very long list.  There are a lot of entertainers in Asia that are actually Asian American.  This is worth noting, of course, but not in a one-by-one manner like the Wang Lee Hom reference that I deleted.  Hong Qi Gong 00:18, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  removal of Wang Lee Hom paragraph