Talk:Ernest Hemingway/Archive 1

message: The article should state "Hemingway was awarded the Bronze Star Medal" rather than "Hemingway was awarded a Bronze Star".  "Bronze Star Medal" is the full and correct name of the medal - although "Silver Star" is correct and not "Siliver Star Medal".  Under catagories "Recipients of the Bronze Star Medal" should be added.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.172.223.128 (talk) 03:54, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bronze Star Medal 

message: "crude and pretentious behavior"?!?!? - biased pov. This section needs to be made more objective and also to list credible sources.
E.g. "Eastman's criticism consisted of the suggestion that Hemingway give up his lonely, tight-lipped stoicism and write about contemporary social affairs. Hemingway did so for at least a short time; his article Who Murdered the Vets? for New Masses, a leftist magazine, and To Have and Have Not displayed a certain heightened social awareness." 
Who says so? Give me a source. Is this original research? Alcmaeonid 22:37, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why not remove the entire section? It's not really relevant to the biography and consists mainly of anecdotal slander. DriveThru210 (talk) 15:04, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm giving notice of my intent to remove this section. I tagged it last Sept. to provide opportunity to raise it an to objective standard. This has not been done. I see no merit here and frankly can find no way to re-work it into a constructive addition. If anyone feels this section has merit and should remain please offer up your thoughts here. -Alcmaeonid (talk) 16:15, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Early critical interplay 

message: The influence section claims that the sea is the central image in the work of Gabriel Garcia Marquez. I have read all of Marquez's novels, several of them in Spanish, and find very little evidence for this very big claim. If you substitute shit for sea, you might have something. This is not to say that Hemingway had no influence on Marquez; he did. Just not in the way that it is stated in the article.--Johnedwineckert 22:30, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  comment 

message: HEMINGWAY WAS BORN IN 1898, not 1899!!! 192.235.8.2 17:26, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  older entries 

message: I agree that the above paragraph "all right in the end" is somewhat POV and definitely could be written better.  Too far out of my field for me to have a bash, how about the detractors improve it a little?  Mat-C 16:48, 13 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  addition/comment 

message: Shouldn't there be something resembling a bit of criticism perhaps?  I mean, shouldn't there at least be a mention of his code of manliness?  When I teach Papa, I make a point of his being a sort of existentialist -- not much evidence of that in this article.--Peccavimus 06:51, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  the code? 

message: Can anyone provide a source for Hemingway's use of a Civil War pistol for his suicide? I'm sure I've read somewhere it was his favourite shotgun. Padraic 00:24, Mar 14, 2005 (UTC)
::I have a page from my teacher with a picture taken by Robert Capa of him and Gary Cooper along with a short article on him. The article states "Too macho to abide his burly body's aging, Hemingway ended his own life with a shotgun." Followed by the signature of Robert Capa is just Magnum.  Magnum may be a magazine or book publisher of some sort. --Exander 10:26, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "Hemingway was twice discovered alone with a shotgun, and on the way to the hospital, where he was readmitted in April 1961 because of his suicidal behavior, he tried to walk into the whirling propeller of a plane on the airport runway. To his wife’s dismay, he was nevertheless released again at the end of June. On July 2, 1961, he shot himself with a double-barreled shotgun in the foyer of his home in Ketchum, Idaho" from Lisa Tyler, Student Companion to Ernest Hemingway Greenwood Press, Westport, CT. 2001. See page 14. Stumps 10:32, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: BTW ... the article states that it was Hemingway's father who used the pistol. Stumps 10:36, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  shotgun? 

message: Should Ernest Hemingway recieve his own category?
--Blue387 09:45, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Category: Ernest Hemingway? 

message: Hi, I didn't find anything about Hemingway's famous "iceberg method" of writing. You can read about it for example here  , we learned it at school and I find it very be¨neficial for understanding what makes his work so special.
"Many believe it was Hemingway's unique writing style that made him famous.  Hemingway himself described it as the "iceberg method" (Wilson). About 1/8 of an iceberg is actually visible above water while 7/8 is below water.  On the surface, his writing seems simple, but 7/8 of the story is under the simple surface."
from page http://www.ncteamericancollection.org/litmap/hemingway_ernest_id.htm
If you think this is worth of contribution, let me know at my discussion page.
Or contribute it yourself, it might be better if native speaker (who has actually read his books) contributes it:)
Thanks!
--Paxik 13:58, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  iceberg method 

message: Something odd was going on, and the Table of Contents was followed by the Headline "Headline" twice in a row.
I deleted one and renamed the other to "Background," but feel free to change it.
Hmmm Forgot to logon. This is me.
===Odd Grammar and Syntax===
It would seem from the odd syntax, word usage and grammar that some Native Spanish speaker is inserting/deleting sections on Hemingway's relationships with the extreme left...
===spanish civil war===
Does any one know anything about Ernest Hemingway’s involvement in the spanish civil war?129.96.120.254 02:20, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Headline funkiness 

message: Does any one know anything about Ernest Hemingway’s involvement in the spanish civil war?129.96.120.254 02:20, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: spanish civil war

message: Something simply must be said about Hemmingway's rivalry with William Falkner.  My literature class emphisized this rilvalry, though did not go into many specifics on it.
I disagree. Hemingway is notorious for having rivalries with practically every writer of his era.  Even if he didn't have an actual personal argument with someone as he did with Stein, Fitzgerald, Dos Passos,...he rarely if ever praised the work of other authors, and infact in my opinion went out of his way to trash just about everyone's writing.  The only writer I know that he praised AND NEVER CHANGED HIS TUNE ABOUT is Knut Hamsun.  The article says he admires Isak Dinesen, but I had not heard that except from this article.Saucybetty 01:22, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Faulkner Rivalry 

message: Hemingway was known for an economy of words.  He would write something and then go back through it and distill it down to its essence.  There are a lot of great thoughts and concepts in this article; however, someone needs to pay tribute to Hemingway by doing same. Hokeman 17:52, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hemingway article could once again become featured 

message: I would like to see a section on this or for it to be integrated into the article. Alcohol played a significant part in Hemingway's life. Fitzgerald was also a lifelong alcoholic and it arguably affected his work and life. It definatly played a role in Hem's twilight years and suicide. Rizla 03:55, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alcoholism 

message: When talking about Michael Palin's book
"The book is available at his website"
sounds like hidden advertising to me
feel free to disagree
=== Another Rewrite? ===
Thre is some very good stuff in this article, but is very obviously the product of several authors. There is repetition some odd chronology. This is easy for me to say however as I am not the chap qualified to do it.... Epeeist smudge 11:16, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ive tried to fix the chronology & style of the first half of the article as best as I can. When I get around to it i'll edit the last part.. hopefully some others will want to help out. Once that is done I think it will be ready for feature status Rizla 23:48, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  advertising? 

message: Thre is some very good stuff in this article, but is very obviously the product of several authors. There is repetition some odd chronology. This is easy for me to say however as I am not the chap qualified to do it.... Epeeist smudge 11:16, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ive tried to fix the chronology & style of the first half of the article as best as I can. When I get around to it i'll edit the last part.. hopefully some others will want to help out. Once that is done I think it will be ready for feature status Rizla 23:48, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another Rewrite? 

message: Hey, someone did a great job of giving sources. Only problem is it's in the text and not at the end of the page, and for some reason I can't figure out what goes where with it. (My brain refuses to work today.) That may need to be fixed... It takes up a lot of room, and could easily be moved by someone who currently has a fully functioning brain. Darned allergies...
Russia Moore 02:54, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources in text? 

message: Nominated as a Good Article? That's insane. This is a woefully inadequate article with large portions missing and no coherency in relation to time. It jumps around so much it's difficult to find a specific bit of information... Needs to be improved and I don't have the information to improve it, as evidenced by the fact that I came to this article in the first place...
Please, someone: help! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Demonesque (talk • contribs) 
:What are the large portions missing? What section(s) don't follow the timeline? If you could offer some more constructive advice.. I would be happy to help fix it. Rizla 15:11, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good Article?! 

message: This not a Catholic view, see Catechism of the Catholic Church #2283.  As a general rule, the Church never officially condemns any individual person as certainly in Hell, no matter what are the circumstances of their death.  The fate of every soul is finally left up to the Mercy of God, who alone has the right to judge them (though some souls are revealed through the process of canonization as (along with many others) certainly in Heaven).  It is even a Catholic hope that no one is in Hell (see CCC #1058 and the work of Hans Urs von Balthasar).
70.226.157.65 04:29, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Catholic" view of suicides going to Hell 

message: does anyone know how to do this?
* done. —ExplorerCDT 20:35, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Add EH to the winners of the pulitzer prize category? 

message: Is there a reason why the short story titles in this article are italicised, rather than bearing quotation marks as short story titles traditionally do in English (and as the Manual of Style recommends)?  Didn't want to make a fairly significant change to the article before asking here if there'd been discussion about it before.  Binabik80 16:40, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Short story title markup 

message: As of my reading today there is no mention of his first wife Hadley Richardson.  Pauline Pfeiffer is only mentioned as Pauline in the beginning of the article, not gaining a surname til the bottom of the page. Although Martha Gellhorn is mentioned there is no mention of Mary Walsh either.  Seeing as Hemingway was famous for his marriages and affairs, I find it incredible that these women barely receive mention.  I think this is because the article is not strong on chronological order, but focuses more on topics like "short stories", etc. Each woman and the life that she shared with Hemmingway helped to shape his art.  His children except his son Patrick aren't even mentioned in the article (and patrick doesn't even make an appearance til the bottom of the page)...some how he had grandchildren Mariel and Margaux with out engendering their parents?  This article needs MAJOR reworking, and not just on these points.
saucybetty 14:18, September 16, 2006 (UTC)
:I took a long break from this article and now have came back to find an entire section of life in france and Hemingway's early life from 1918-1935ish completely deleted from the article. I will go back and search through the edits but this is ridiculous that it got removed. Rizla 23:39, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Upon further inspection it looks like it was vandalism from SEPTEMBER 7. It has been restored.Rizla 23:49, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wives/Romances 

message: Some revisions need to be done on this part. I know some of this is vandalism but I know very little about Hemingway so I'm not sure if he actually had a condition and this is just written sloppy or if the entire thing about his ears is made up.
Ernest Hemingway was born on July 21, 1899, in Oak Park, Illinois, a suburb of Chicago. As a little boy they called him elephant ears because of his condition. he was ridiculed extensivly and claimed that from age 6 to 15 he cried himself to sleep. He began as a highway man who got in cars to eat people. He loved cows.
Deep tendu 00:12, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Problems with Early Life 

message: I've started an approach that may apply to Wikipedia's Core Biography articles: creating a branching list page based on in popular culture information.  I started that last year while I raised Joan of Arc to featured article when I created Cultural depictions of Joan of Arc, which has become a featured list.  Recently I also created Cultural depictions of Alexander the Great out of material that had been deleted from the biography article.  Since cultural references sometimes get deleted without discussion, I'd like to suggest this as a model for the editors here.  Regards, Durova 16:12, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Cultural depictions of Ernest Hemingway]] 

message: An infrequently discussed story:
Hemingway, Ernest 1951 The Shot. True the men’s magazine. April 1951. pp. 25-28. 
has been long known to define relationships between Castro and Hemingway.
There is a new analysis of this story and Hemingway / Castro relationships posted by a friend of mine at . El Jigue 12-9-06 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.65.188.149 (talk) 20:56, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Shot 

message: In the Family Guy Movie "Stewie Griffith, The Untold Story" the dog Brian is shown in heaven chatting with Kurt Cobain, Ernest Hemingway, and Vincent Van Gogh, all of whom shot themselves. Brian provides comic relief when he says that he got in the trash can and ate some chocolate. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.15.245.78 (talk) 06:38, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another mention of Hemingway 

message: Diff between current article and the article as it stood in June of 2004, when Wikipedia:Featured Article status was revoked.  
The article has been largely rewritten since its demotion.  Someone care to point out specific reasons why the article should not be promoted back to featured article status?  Be nice to see it listed here reasonably soon: Wikipedia:Former_featured_articles#Former_featured_articles_that_have_been_re-promoted.  MrZaiustalk 00:12, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The first step should be WikiProject Biography/Peer review, IMO. -Fsotrain09 18:21, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Review for re-promoting to featured article status? 

message: I find the line "he committed suicide by way of shotgun to the face" in the first paragraph and later in the  suicide paragraph to be excessive and distasteful. Were it changed to "he committed suicide by way of shotgun" I think that anyone that cares how he shot himself would understand that he did it in the face. This line made me immediately think this article to be of low quality.     Jon-emery 15:54, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: At first, I disagreed with you, but after careful consideration, I think that you are right. The current edit is better. Firewall62 (talk) 22:33, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Honestly, I think it's enough to say "...committed suicide with a shotgun" and leave it at that.  The prepositional bits "by way of shotgon" or "in the face" are (at best) wordy and at worst redundant and salacious. Geeman 01:25, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  distasteful description of suicide 

message: In the German article it says that he killed at least one German POW, but I don't find anything about it in this much longer english article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.83.137.209 (talk) 14:18, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Did he break the Geneva Conventions? 

message: Hello,
I have a non-commercial blog on Ernest hemingway's Paris years. It roughly follows A Moveable Feast - the content if not the exact chronology. It is still being added to and improved.
It is: 
I wonder if it could be included in the notes at the end of the Hemingway article.
Thank you,
Paul E. Stolle Nikon101 03:04, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adding a Link To Ernest Hemingway 

message: *Kansas City Star2007 (accessed 5-5-07) Flirting, writ large letters between Ernest Hemingway and Marlene Dietrich reveal volumes correspondence. The Kansas City Star (Kansas City, Missouri)  |  Date: 4/8/2007 http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1Y1-105050824.html “Last Monday 30 letters from Hemingway to Dietrich were opened to the public. Dietrich's daughter, Maria Riva, had given them a few years ago to the JFK Library's Ernest Hemingway Collection, asking that they be kept under wraps until this year.”
This is interesting because the father of Dietrich's (first?) daughter (Maria Rivas?) was Otto Katz  a famous communist spy master:
*Film Museum Berlin 2000 (accessed 5-5-07) Newsletter No.16 October, 27th 2000 http://www.marlene.com/news16.pdf.” …And then she became pregnant. …Marlene plainly told Otto [Katz] that he was the father of the child she bore on December 12,  1924.”
*Cockburn Claud 2006 (accessed 3-29-07) Scenes from the Spanish Civil War. Counterpunch August 1, 2006 http://www.counterpunch.org/claud08012006.html “Otto Katz -- who was now internationally known as Andre Simon -- was a propagandist of genius. He had started his working life as cashier of a theater in Teplitz, where Marlene Dietrich worked at some very early age. Katz -- whether truthfully or untruthfully, I do not know -- always claimed to have been the first husband of Marlene Dietrich. I do know that whereas in every other connection you could call him a liar, hypocrite and ruffian of every description without his turning a hair, if you appeared to doubt this assertion about Marlene he would fly into a passion, white with rage. It is true that he made love to every good-looking woman he met and was a great deal more than averagely successful. He was a middle-sized man with a large, slightly cadaverous bead in which the skull bones were unusually prominent. He had large melancholy eyes, a smile of singular sweetness and an air of mystery -- a mystery into which he was prepared to induct you, you alone, because be loved and esteemed you so highly.”
*“Tory Historian” 2007 (accessed 3-29-07) What is successful propaganda? - 2 The blog of the Conservative History Group and the Conservative History Journal Sunday, February 11, 2007 http://conservativehistory.blogspot.com/2007/02/what-is-successful-propaganda-2.html    “The Brown Book” was probably written largely by Willi’s henchman and probably NKVD agent, the Czech Communist Otto Katz, who may well have been involved later on in Masaryk’s “defenestration”. Subsequently, the grateful Communist government of Czechoslovakia put him on trial together with Rudolf Slánský in the great show trial of 1952. (Incidentally, the trials of the tortured and pressurized accused were filmed and shown. Their self-abasement was made public at the time and later.)  Katz, the ruthless manipulator and brilliant propaganda writer, was accused of Zionism and espionage, confessed to all his “crimes” and begged to be executed as he had no right to live. His masters obliged and he was hanged.   As Stephen Koch, author of “Double Lives” and Sean McMeekin, author of “The Red Millionaire”, Münzenberg’s biography, argued “The Brown Book” so highly praised at the time and so valued by various historians, was largely a pack of lies. In fact, the lies were not really substantiated and only self-imposed hypnosis could have made all those writers and reviewers swoon with praise at the time.”
This is a matter Hemingway surely must have known, and if he did not one can be sure that the FBI did. El Jigue 208.65.188.149 19:56, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Marlene Dietrich letters 

message: I was wondering if there is a reason no such list of his works is found on this site. I would love to see him have a complete bibliography as a stand-alone article like many lesser authors do Black Harry (T|C) 20:26, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[List of works by Ernest Hemingway]] 

message: A self-admitted pro-Castro militant (see his site) repeatedly removes references to Hemingway story "The Shot."  This militant who illustrates his page with much left wing propaganda alledges insufficient evidence although a number of different sources are cited. So again I have reinserted it:
"However, the Hemingway account "The Shot"  Hemingway, Ernest 1951 The Shot. True the men’s magazine. April 1951. pp. 25-28  is used by Cabrera Infante http://www.centerforbookculture.org/interviews/interview_infante.html and others  Gonzalez Echevarria, Roberto 1980 The Dictatorship of Rhetoric/the Rhetoric of Dictatorship: Carpentier, Garcia Marquez, and Roa Bastos. Latin American Research Review, Vol. 15, No. 3 (1980), pp. 205-228 “For example, the assassination of Manolo Castro is retold by alluding to Hemingway's "The Shot,…"” http://hemingway-castro-foes.blogspot.com/ as evidence of conflict between Hemingway and Fidel Castro dating back to 1948 and the killing of "Manolo" Castro a friend <refof Hemingway. " El Jigue208.65.188.149 01:33, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Self-admitted pro-Castro militant repeatedly removes reference to "The Shot" 

message: To support the data on Hemingway's links to the radical left I have inserted:
"Jorge García Montes and Antonio Alonso Ávila place Ernest Hemingway talking to “El Tigre” Rolando Masferrer, a veteran of the Spanish Civil War and expelled communist party leader) in the Havana in the Soviet Embassy on November 7 1945. (García Montes, Jorge and Antonio Alonso Ávila 1970 Historia del Partido Comunista en Cuba. Ediciones Universal, Miami. p. 362)  At the time, according to these authors, Blas Roca and Fabio Grobart had desperately tried to stop Masferrer from leaving the communist party.  At this event Masferrer refuses to shake the hand of Cuban communist leader Anibal Escalante.  Masferrer had been expelled in August/September of 1945, "Masferrer and the novelist Carlos Montenegro founded the weekly magazine Tiempo en Cuba in January 1945. Eight months later they were expelled from the Communist Party for denouncing its leadership for its bourgeoisie and corrupt lifestyle." (de la Cova, Antonio Rafael. 2007 The Moncada Attack: Birth of the Cuban Revolution. University of South Carolina Press ISBN-10: 1570036721 ISBN-13: 978-1570036729 p. 287)."
El Jigue208.65.188.149 18:54, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hemingway and "El Tigre" Masferrer 

message: Under the date of death, the article has his age as "47-48" but if he is born July, 21. 1899 and died July 2, 1961 that would make him 61.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.180.181.168 (talk) 03:44, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Age 

message: draft of "The Sun Also Rises" in six weeks, but the rewriting, after writing "Torrents of Spring," took several months; etc.
Plhays 00:24, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:SOFIXIT SBHarris 00:36, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Factual historical error 

message: The Spanish Civil War was horrendous on both sides.  Thus, to present the Republican side as merely elected without reference to their own atrocities, distorts the circumstances in which Hemingway found himself and which he tolerated, as did Herbert Matthews,in his news reports.  In Hemingway's favor one notes the narrations by the character "Pablo" of the killings of unarmed clergy found in "For Whom the Bell Tolls." Still it is pertinent to distinguish the role of Hemingway as a novelist for whom there is freedom to take a side or a position, from that of Hemingway as a journalist bearing a far greater ethical responsibility to adhere to objectivity.  All this helps define Hemingway whose writings even for his times showed far less compassion for his non-US subjects,than his own nationals.
One is reminded of his cursory treatment of the murder of smuggled Asians in one of the accounts found in "Islands in the Stream."  Perhaps one might even ascribe (as surely somebody has) Hemingway's laconic writing  style to a way to try to separate himself from the human subjects he describes, and eventually to himself. This laconic style could be compared to that of the trained thoughts of a Spartan  youth going on a mission to murder Helots.  As yet I have found no account of a meeting or interaction of Hemingway with Eric Blair George Orwell which might help illuminate this subject. El Jigue208.65.188.149 19:43, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't you find it tiresome holding historic figures up to current standards?  Just how well will you fair when your life is reviewed a hundred years from now?  Rklawton 19:48, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: WW2 was horrendous on both sides, does that mean that there was a moral equivalency between the Axis and the Allies, that we should make excuses for Hitler and in this case Hitler's minion Franco on that basis or that people should have stood idly by and let them triumph?  No. It is to the credit of Hemingway and all the other veterans of the "greatest generation" that they stepped up to the plate and did what had to be done in that situation.  The world would be far worse off had they abandoned their duty.  And of course, the other aspect of it is that Hemingway was a seasoned combat veteran, going back to the Great War, who had developed a hardened and desensitized attitude towards the cruelties of war, that some of his interlocutors may have never come close to seeing in real life even once, much less on a routine basis as soldiers often do.Tom Cod 21:54, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Do moral judgements on Axis, Allies, "Republicans" belong into pedia-articles? Anyway I wonder why nothing is mentioned about the War Crimes that Hemingway himself did confess to. --41.19.225.197 (talk) 17:15, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

text: Good points - and those contemporary reactions to Hemingway's work should be included.  I hope you're sharpening your pencil!  Rklawton 20:47, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, but is that not true of most great conflagrations (and of war generally)?  World War II?  the American Civil War? there were atrocities on both sides, but ultimately it could and was reasonably concluded that cause of one side (The Union, the Allies) merited support and victory, represented progress and that it was critical for human history that that outcome be effectuated.  The genteel equivocation of the gentlemen you mention, in contrast to Hemingway's candidly partisan attitude, in the context of what has aptly been described as the "dress rehearsal of World War II" could reflect a political attitude of conciliating fascism that many of these people had based on their privileged class position (see the "Understanding Rich") and quite frankly it was the abstention of the Allies and much of the liberal intelligentsia on this basis that created the situation where Soviet backed communists were able to gain the undue influence they had to the detriment of the Spanish Republic, which was qualitively different than the Axis sponsored military dictatorship that replaced it.Tom Cod 21:54, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Spanish Civil War 

message: Under the section about early criticism, they describe his second wife as "[allegedly having] lesbian affairs after their divorce". While I understand that 'affair' could have different meanings, the connotation is that she comitted adultry. If they were divorced this would not be the case unless she was remarried and that should be noted. Regardless- there is a difference between talking about the discriminate views of the past and talking in a discriminate tone ABOUT the past. I think the language should be clarified in order to be more objective towards this person...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.113.90.150 (talk) 13:35, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  offensive? 

message: While there are pertinent items listed, I find the popular culture and Anecdote sections to be primarily lists of trivia.  I can see the popular culture shortened and converted to prose.  The anecdote section should be pruned then the remains spread through the article at the appropriate spots.  Someone more familiar with the topic would do a better job than I, but I am willing to dive in should no one step up. . .  (John User:Jwy talk) 15:51, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please Be bold and edit away.  Most of what is listed here is not really relevant to the article.  I'm no expert on the subject either, but I would be more than happy to help.  I'm adding a trivia tag and will be back later to remove some of the more obviously misplaced bits of trivia. Sbacle 16:12, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

text: I like your reasoning for each of these.  Keep up the good work!  Rklawton 15:46, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Trivia" 

message: Songwriter/singer Jimmy Buffett references Hemingway in many songs.  In one song, he says 'Follow the Equator, like the old articulator.'  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.188.202.63 (talk) 00:15, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This Jimmy Buffett line refers to Mark Twain, not Hemingway. Michael.Urban (talk) 14:59, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jimmy Buffett 

message: The introduction section refered to the Hemingway home in Ketchum as his "hunting lodge." It was in fact his home. His wife Mary continued to live there until her death in 1986. I corrected the mistake.
Jonathan S Knowles 01:03, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Corrected intro 

message: Hi, I just realized that the article mentions Hemingway moving to Key West, Florida twice, but in two different years. The first occurance is in the "First Novels And Other Early Works section and it states that "In 1928, Hemingway and Pfeiffer moved to Key West, Florida". However, in the section "Key West and the Spanish Civil War" it states that "Hemingway moved in 1931 to Key West, Florida". Please fix this. 
Tamara Van Diest 19:49, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conflict of Dates 

message: The last paragraph in the section "Key West and the Spanish Civil War" includes "kidney trouble from fishing" among a list of Hemingway's ailments during this period. Enquiring minds would like a little elaboration on the possible risks sportsfishing poses to the human kidney. Surely I'm not the only reader who has paused in puzzlement at that phrase.
Douglas Barber (talk) 21:59, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Trivial Request for Enlightenment 

message: Diabetes was in the Hemingway family was known as the "Hemingway curse". As well as his father, Ernest and his brother both developed Diabetes. Refer to:
#USA Today, 22 Sept 2007.
#Diabetes Digest "Famous People & Diabetes"
# where page 43 describes his condition in August 1947 as including high blood pressure, diabetes, depression and possible haemochromatosis.
I have already added :Category:People with diabetes to the page. -- Ashley VH (talk) 23:46, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Diabetes 

message: Can someone write Bathurst Street Hunt Club into this article so that Bathurst Street Hunt Club can stop being a stub? Kingturtle (talk) 14:38, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you mean stop being an orphan? --JayHenry (talk) 02:00, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bathurst Street Hunt Club 

message: Shouldn't the "Family" section come exactly after "Biography" and "Works" and "Adaptations" somewhere higher? SCriBu (talk) 12:58, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section order 

message: In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :) 
* "eh" :
**  
** Ernest Hemingway His Life and Works
DumZiBoT (talk) 16:38, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bot report : Found duplicate references ! 

message: Please don't add pictures of dummies to an article about one of the greatest writers of the 20th century...add another photo if necessary - but keep it real. Thanks..Modernist (talk) 21:12, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Images 

message: I alway find myself in this article and one of the categories at the bottom disappeared (Catholics) and a new one appear (Atheist). I don't make any assertions, but the article doesn't mention "atheism" as it does "Catholic." Maybe someone can source the atheism comment. 66.82.9.59 (talk) 00:40, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Atheist/Catholic 

message: If this is true, why does it still say on the front page of the article that it is a Good Article?  —Mattisse (Talk) 23:16, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It was delisted as a result of this discussion: Talk:Ernest_Hemingway#Ernest_Hemingway_GA_Reassessment.  This only happened a few days ago.  What do you mean by "the front page"?  At WP:GA it is listed as a recently delisted article.  Perhaps someone just forgot to update somewhere that needs to be updated? --JayHenry (talk) 23:19, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If you look at the actual article, Ernest Hemingway,  it says right under the title: "A good article from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. A former featured article." I know from passing articles for GA, that as soon as I pass an article, the article (on the article page) immediately says "A good article from Wikipedia". Therefore, there is something in the code for this article, Ernest Hemingway, that records it as currently a GA.  —Mattisse (Talk) 01:10, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Addendum: In the case of passing a GA, the change comes from recording the change on the talk page . However, I cannot find that code on the talk page of this article.  —Mattisse (Talk) 01:13, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ah, I think you might have something in your monobook that displays that because I can't see it.  I noticed that Hemingway was still listed as a Good Article in the Version 0.5 template.  I switched it to B-class.  Did that fix it for your setup?  That's the only guess I've got! --JayHenry (talk) 01:42, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Whatever you just did fixed it. It now shows up as a B-class article. I do have something in my monobook (or somewhere - perhaps under Gadgets under Preferences) that does automatically show the article class. Anyway, you fixed it, so thanks!  —Mattisse (Talk) 01:57, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Delisted as GA? 

message: I don't remember the passage from A Moveable Feast where EH meets and talks with James Joyce. I don't think they ever met, but from memory, I think it was EH that admired the older writer from afar, as described in the scene when EH sees Mr. Joyce eating in a fancy restaurant with his family.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.125.239.235 (talk) 23:35, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Meeting with Joyce 

message: During the recent Good Article Review, a number of editors expressed interest in a collaborative effort to rebuild this article to GA and eventually FA standard.  Some thoughts:
* I think it might actually be easiest to approach this as almost a complete overhaul.  We can build off the sources listed when they seem like quality material, but a lot of the sources are a bit sketchy.
* Some good Featured Articles on literary giants to think of as templates: Chinua Achebe, Honoré de Balzac, William Shakespeare, Mary Shelley, Emily Dickinson.
* This will be an especially challenging project because Hemingway had an interesting life, was a prolific author, and is an extremely important figure (which means the standards from the FAC community shoot through the roof).  And the article is already extremely long.
* One shortening idea would be to spin Ernest_Hemingway#Works into its own sub-article titled "Bibliography of Ernest Hemingway", and we should see if we can make that an FL!  
* I think we can just use the talk page to share thoughts as we work.
* I've started a subsection below that lists the sources I have on my shelf.  It's just three books, but the Cambridge Companion has lots of great essays.  I have Hem's well-known novels, and I also have some biographies of F. Scott Fitzgerald that might be helpful.  If anybody else wants to add sources that they have, it'd be a good start for seeing how many more books we might have to track down.
Any other thoughts welcome. --JayHenry (talk) 04:36, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Restoration 

message: As for this passage of the article, one should re-read Hemingway's novel Across the River and into the Trees, where some of the experiences of the author during the liberation of Paris and during the cruel battle of the Hurtgen forest may have entered the memories of the hero of the novel, a colonel Cantwell. - Regards! User 87.160.79.8 (talk) 14:05, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "World War II and after" 

message: I am interested in starting am Ernest Hemingway project to improve content related to his life and works, and have proposed the project at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Proposals#Wikiproject_Ernest_Hemingway_project.  Please share your thoughts there! kilbad (talk) 16:02, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Ernest Hemingway]] project? 

message: Just google for "Ernest Hemingway atheist".
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ernest+hemingway+atheist&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=
"All thinking men are atheists."
This is probably one of the most beautiful quotes in history.Azdfg (talk) 14:12, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well he grew up in a religious home. His mother was very strictly religious. I am pretty sure he turned back to Catholicism later in his life, towards his death, and that he had a Roman Catholic funeral (they said his suicide was a result of insanity, and therefore he could have a catholic funeral). But of course, I need to find references to back this up. I just did all the reading on his biography a few weeks ago... Killiondude (talk) 17:05, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ernest Hemingway was an atheist 

message: Shouldn't this sentence read "Hall was his namesake"?  I'd fix it, but it's all locked up!  Jacobus (talk) 23:51, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hemingway was his namesake? 

message: The character who details the massacre of reactionaries in 'For Whom the Bell Tolls' is Pilar, not Pablo.  
The source of the conflict between Hemingway and Dos Passos wasn't "atrocities" committed against deserving right-wing targets, but that Hemingway more or less went along with the line of the Stalinists in the Spanish Civil War, which was to defend capitalism and the political power of the bourgeosie in the Republican-held zone of Spain.  Dos Passos in contrast was a supporter of the authentic enemies of capitalism on the republican side, the anarcho-syndicalist mass workers organization, the CNT.
Regarding the question of revolutionary violence, minus the moral slobbering, Orwell gets mentioned here.  I refer readers to the opening pages of Orwell's 'Homage to Catalonia,' his memoir of fighting in the Spanish Civil War, and Orwell's enthusiastic response to the apparent defeat or killing of the bourgeoisie of Barcelona on his first arrival in the city.  In the immortal words of Robespierre, you can't make an omelet without breaking  a few eggs.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Miasnikov (talk • contribs) 04:02, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unintelligible, incoherent, factually inaccurate bit here on the Spanish Civil War 

message: I have been trying to fix the problems with this image. Consequently I reverted back to where it was last visible. I don't understand why this image was not showing up before, puzzling...Modernist (talk) 13:34, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Very puzzling. I can't find the diff where it disappeared, but it was in last night as I was working on the article. I was looking at the image wondering whether I wanted to tackle the next section or wait to fill in the WWI section w/ more material/sources. Anyway, thanks for the fixes. And also thanks for reverting the vandalism on this article. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 13:45, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent edits 

message: I edit Wikipedia for typos when I get bored, but this one was locked down, so you get a new talk page heading instead.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.241.254.133 (talk) 20:00, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. Fixed. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 21:08, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Abondon? 

message: There is an article alleging that Ernest Hemingway was a war criminal. Please note the relevant passages:
Hemingway often boasted about his courage in regard to wounded or disarmed German soldiers. On August 27, 1949 he wrote in retrospect “One day I killed an impudent SS-Kraut. When I told him that I was going to kill him if he even thought of fleeing, the fellow answered “No you’re won’t, because you are afraid to do it and you belong to a breed of degenerates. Besides, its against the Geneva Convention.”
“What a mistake you made brother” I told him and fired three shots into his stomach. When he fell to his knees I shot him in the head so that his brain came out through his mouth. In the same letter he wrote about another “glorious deed” in regard to a captured SS-man that he had interrogated who, according to Hemingway spoke a wonderful English. “He answered my questions succinctly and intelligently. He called me Herr Captain. I wore no rank insignia. When he thought it was not high enough he raised it to Herr Colonel I probably would have made it to General, but we had no time. Afterwards we chased them away (killed them) because we knew what their insignia stood for.
Hemingway often bragged about the number of (disarmed) German soldiers he allegedly killed. In a letter dated July 9, 1960 he wrote “I killed about 122 Germans, not counting the uncertain ones. The last one left me with a bad feeling. He was a young non-combatant soldier wearing a German uniform. He was fleeing on a bicycle in the direction of Aachen. I said to my companion “Let me take this one.” The boy was about as old as my son Patrick. I shot him through the spine and the bullet came out through his liver.
After that incident Hemingway was no longer able to continue with his “heroic deeds” because he was captured by the Germans and spent the rest of the war as a prisoner-of-war at Hammelsburg and Nuremberg. It is not known whether the Germans knew about his crimes. In any case he was treated correctly and was released in May 1945 when the war ended.
http://www.nordisk.nu/showthread.php?p=233090
Shouldn't this information be included? That is, if the claims can be verified.--41.19.225.197 (talk) 17:25, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well apparently it's from one of his letters. I do have a book (maybe even two) of his letters so will have a look to see what I can find, but at this point it does need to be a better source than a blog. Thanks, though, interesting information, although maybe difficult to add in an encyclopedic biography. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 19:44, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  War Criminal? 

message: Is it only an 'urban legend' that he committed suicide by pulling the trigger of a gun with his foot?
Or is it a deliberate emission?
:This description was edited out yesterday. I don't necessarily believe that such detail is warranted except the issue of how he committed suicide continues to be raised, and as such a WP:RS should be used to describe the event (which is done in the deleted edited). Truthkeeper88 (talk) 14:39, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You should include how he committed suicide, though the vigorous language might be toned down.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.28.30.197 (talk) 12:41, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Details of Suicide 

message: Oct 3 09- Truthkeeper88 just deleted many paras of interesting referenced text. Seems too extreme to me --Spanglej (talk) 22:28, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Feel free to revert if the sources are reliable. I've deleted sections that were sourced using blogs, etc. Also, deleted a section about Cuba house management in 2001 which may be interesting and perhaps useful elsewhere, but would like to keep the biography section focused on Hemingway's biography. Also, deleted a large section about Castro that perhaps can be moved elsewhere, but seemed to veer from the actual biography of Hemingway. I'm taking a quick break and will return to add sources and retrieve what I can using reliable sources. Thanks. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 22:38, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mass deletion 

message: Hi! I noticed on the Wikipedia Page "Morley Callaghan" that the said author had an "infamous boxing match" with Hemingway, yet it is not mentioned here. I don't know if this is true (and I don't do Wikipedia full-time), so can someone check if that fact has validity and post it in this article? Just checking! 99.163.234.38 (talk) 06:37, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe it is true. Will have a look at the sources when I get time and add a ref to the Callaghan article if necessary. In my view the bio here is getting a little bloated, so I wouldn't mind input from others about how much detail to add. Thanks. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 12:43, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not mentioned? 

message: The link for Islands in the Stream in the posthumous works section links to some sort of music album instead of Islands in the Stream (novel), which is the novel by Hemingway.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.113.247.244 (talk) 15:39, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Islands in the Stream Reference is incorrect 

message: In the Cuba and World War II section, the fourth sentence, still refers to "For Whom the Bells Toll," instead of "For Whom the Bell Tolls."  Please correct.  Obviously, I need to make a few more corrections somewhere, so I could have done this myself.  Thanks.  KG  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kgarnjost (talk • contribs) 18:33, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Good catch. Thank you! Fixed. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 18:40, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  For Whom the Bell Tolls 

message: This article states that Picasso was part of the lost generation along with Hemingway.  This is at best problematic and should be removed.  Despite the fact that he was friends with or otherwise connected to several individuals in the lost generation, Picasso was nearly two decades older than the core "members" of the lost generation, not to mention several other problems with including him in the group.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.98.255.233 (talk) 01:56, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picasso/lost generation 

message: Is there any knowledge of Ernest Hemingway having done a painting, maybe of a bullfight ? —marcusweinhard (via posting script) 16:49, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd have to look that up in the biographies. Am a little busy at the moment, so will have to get back to this. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 21:26, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Try asking at the Reference desk; the editors there will usually know or know how to find out. NW (Talk) 22:24, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ernest Hemingway 

message: Just a quick note to add: In World of Warcraft there is a character named Hemet Nesingwary, who spends his time hunting. I'd say this is almost certainly a nod of the hat to Ernest, but being I'm not particularly active on Wikipedia I can't add it in to the article, what with it being semi protected. So instead, if someone could add it in when they have a chance, cheers. Also note: Hemet wrote a book entitled "The Green Hills of Stranglethorn", perhaps a reference to Hemingwary's "The Green Hills of Africa". ReidE96 (talk) 19:01, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hemet Nesingwary 

message: To anyone reading this page, input would be appreciated on how to proceed with this article. I've added sources to the biography and works section (which were almost entirely unsourced). Still have to finish the "Journalism and correspondence" section. In my view the following sections should either moved elsewhere (as separate pages) or deleted: "Family"; "Honors"; and "Tributes" (which I'd like to see as a subpage). Thanks for any comments. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 00:04, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request input on how to proceed with reorganization 

message: The summary contains typos:
Since his death three novels. four collections of short stories, and three non-fiction autobiographical works have been published. 
Hemingway received the Nobel Prize in Literature in 1954 his novella The Old Man and the Sea.
In 1924 Hemingway wrote the his first novel, The Sun Also Rises.
I can't edit semi-protected articles.
Raslafor (talk) 20:17, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Typos 

message: I've added the sentence about Hemingways letter to Kahle about his "Spanish Civil War adventures" and the reference again. It shows Hemingway's typical language and according to a TIME Magazine obit Kahle was the model for the General in Ernest Hemingway's novel "For Whom The Bell Tolls".   Maybe it's not so uninteresting(?)--Henrig (talk) 22:19, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Using Hemingway's letters to describe events in his life is problematic for a couple of reasons: 1.) there are so many letters that each event could be supported with letters and the article would bloat beyond the reasonable length; 2.) critics generally consider that Hemingway's version of events is not always the correct version. That said, the information you've added above would be fine to add to background section of the For Whom the Bell Tolls. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 22:30, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another letter 

message: At issue is the rather famous story The Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber, which is among the author's best. It is a coming-of-age story, like the Nick Adams stories, and the white hunter Wilson is rather embarrassed by Macomber's later coming-of-age, something he says plainly, as well as the fact that coming of age is not a matter of the 21st birthday. However, the process makes Macomber very happy, but his happiness lasts only a few minutes, for his wife soon shoots him in the back of the head. Hence, the title: the shortness of the HAPPY part of Macomber's life-- the part after he becomes a man. One editor of the Wiki has taken it as his task to revert all of my edits to this article, which are mostly additions of quotes from the story to illustrate the story's theme, and which flesh out the narative (the present synopsis leaves the plot with the bullalo "refusing to die" and doesn't tell us what happens to it). All these changes have been reverted back to his own version by this single editor, who appears to have a shiney new rollback tool, but does not know what is supposed to be done with a rollback tool (answer: revert vandalism with it, not good faith edits). This editor is willing to revert without input from others. However I think it better to solicit input, and I'm doing that here, in the place where the most Hemingway afficionados will be likely to read it. Please go to the story's TALK page  and add your input to the debate on how much of this story's description to include, as well as what it means. Thanks! SBHarris 04:30, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that the summary needs improvement, but, like your comments here, your edits were all speculation and original research and thus have no place on wikipedia, making use of rollback appropriate.  Oh, and it's spelled "Hemingway." EeepEeep (talk) 08:03, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Since that's a missing letter in one out of three times I typed Hemingway above, it appears you've managed to locate a typo! You have removed some of my direct quotations from the story-- how is it that they are "speculation"? If you'd left them but removed the unreferenced material only, you'd have a better case. However, your actions suggest rather that these segments don't fit your personal opinion of what dialog and events from the story are crucial to presenting the plot, but you do not understand this. In any case, who exactly are you to tell me what does and what doesn't "have a place" on Wikipedia? I've been here a year longer than you and done roughly 13 times the work here. Long enough to see that you're misusing the one tool you have. And by the way, you just violatd 3RR, a blockable offense. I think you should probably re-evaluate your understanding of rollback, the rules of Wikipedia, the use of , and generally just quit your present behavior, while you're ahead. SBHarris 02:49, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Since you're such an expert on Wikipedia policy I shouldn't need to tell you to take the article discussion to the talk page for the article actually being discussed.  Since your personal attacks have no basis in reality I don't see any reason to reply. EeepEeep (talk) 09:14, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

text: Oh, and you might want to actually read and understand WP:3RR before you go around accusing other editors of violating it.  And please learn to use preview. EeepEeep (talk) 09:24, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, looking at the timeline, I admit you spaced things out so you reverted me three times in under 48 hours, not 24 hours. That leaves you in compliance with the letter of the law, but since these were large reversions which you can't get any consensus on (indeed, haven't been able to find anybody who agrees with you about) it's still amounts to tendentious editing on your part, and I doubt you'll find anyone who disagrees. I don't know Truthkeeper from (Nick) Adams, except that he knows something about the subject at hand, which is Hemingway and his work. That's all that is required, here. The critics have said far more on the subject of the Macomber story than the Wiki on it says, even now. Expansion is justified, not deletion. My reaction would have been far different if you'd been helping in that work of expansion, instead of merely being reactionary. SBHarris 23:00, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice to see you've calmed down, but it seems like you still don't understand how your edits were not compatible with wikipedia guidelines.  You should try reading Wikipedia:How to write a plot summary.  What "the critics have said" has a place in the article, but it's not in the plot summary.  I'm all for collaborating to improve an article, but it's rather hard to do when other editors are throwing around nonsensical accusations and refusing discuss the content in a productive manner.  I think the page is much better now with the "Major Themes" section added by Truthkeeper88 and a trimmed down plot summary. EeepEeep (talk) 03:36, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem is that for a story this complex, a plot summary this short doesn’t support many of the major themes mentioned, though the story itself does. For example, after the buffalo kills, the story says about Macomber that “For the first time in his life he really felt wholly without fear. Instead of fear he had a feeling of definite elation.” Shortly thereafter: “Macomber felt a wild unreasonable happiness that he had never known before.” Between the phrase “first time in his life” and “happiness he had never known before” the meaning of the story title is apparent, such that it can later be explained in the theme section. But if you leave this out of the plot summary, it is not apparent, and the critical analysis comes out of nowhere.  Again, Margot does more than mock her husband for cowardice—she tells him flatly that he is a coward. But she does it as he all-but catches her cheating on him. Is the timing important? Does it support the notion that she attempts to control her husband through this? It needs to be mentioned in the plot before being analyzed. Wilson tells us: “Fear gone like an operation. Something else grew in its place. Main thing a man had. Made him into a man. Women knew it too. No bloody fear.” It is Wilson’s opinion that the change into manhood for Macomber will mean no more cuckoldry. Later, the story confirms Margot’s sense when it tells us that she sees Wilson no differently, but does see her husband differently. And it gives Margot’s reaction to her husband’s loss of fear: ‘"You've gotten awfully brave, awfully suddenly," his wife said contemptuously, but her contempt was not secure. She was very afraid of something.’  She is very afraid. Margot’s new fear and Wilson’s “He would have left you, too,” gives Margot a motive. The plot summary would not mention the motive, but it needs to give enough information that the reader will understand the motive, when discussed later.  I read the plot summary essay. I also note that this 13,500 word analysis of this story takes 657 words to summarize the plot, which is almost 4 times the 171 words in the WP article now. Perhaps the writers of the critical analysis should have read WP’s Plot Summary essay? But then, there’s the bothersome matter of the missing material to support any analysis. Actually, the WP essay is interesting, but has nothing to teach me about plot summary. Nor do you. SBHarris 08:22, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: A proper analysis of the story isn't possible without a good plot summary. "The Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber" is perhaps one of the best short stories written in the 20th century—not my opinion, the opinion of the critics from whom I have stacks of articles littering my desk. Without a detailed plot summary, one cannot discuss Hemingway's theory of omission, (aka the iceberg theory), the use of symbolism, his belief in living an "authentic" life, etc., which are the hallmark characterisitics of Hemingway's writing that are handled perfectly in this single story. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 17:44, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Truthkeeper88 on this; the article needs a good, concise plot summary that sets the stage for the later analysis, but the two sections should be clearly delineated.  You might also read Wikipedia:WikiProject Novels/Style guidelines; this seems to be the format Truthkeeper88 followed when reorganizing the article. EeepEeep (talk) 20:19, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Calling all Hemingway fans for comment: an RfC on one of Hemingways's three or four best short stories 

message: Newly found KGB records show that Ernest Hemingway was a registered spy with the codename "Argo". http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/jul/09/hemingway-failed-kgb-spy
Perhaps this is worth mentioning in the article?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.33.138.137 (talk) 12:13, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spy 

message: In the section Idaho_and_suicide:
"A few day later" should be "A few days later".
"guite deliberately" should be "quite deliberately" (I checked the original reference)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.210.129.167 (talk) 15:46, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed. Thanks for pointing out the typos! Truthkeeper88 (talk) 21:16, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  More typos 

message: Uh, I'm not able to fix it, and think it is a minor error. 
(forgive my lack of knowledge on how this works.) 
"...Ernest Miller Hall, an English immigrant and Civil War veteran who lived with the family. Hemingway was his namesake..."
I figure Hemingway was his namesake is supposed to refer to the grandfather, so shouldn't it be Miller Hall, or Hall?
SamX13 (talk) 03:41, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minor Error 

message: Why use that bad quality image at the top when we have :File:Ernest Hemingway 1950.jpg and :File:Hemingway 1953 Kenia.jpg? Can I replace it and put that image further down the article? --Beao 17:50, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The one on the Pilar really doesn't do him justice. It's after the 1954 accident and he was sick. I do like the one from Kenya, but an earlier one would be better. The image in the infobox seems to have been scanned from a book, thus the low quality. I believe the JFK Library would a better quality version of the image. I'll have a look when I get time. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 18:43, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Add to comment: can't find the top image at JFK Library, but have added the image library as an el for anyone to look. Here's an image I like but found it on google, though I've seen it elsewhere. I suspect it's in the JFK Library but not currently published. We could check with them to see whether it's in the public domain and use it... Truthkeeper88 (talk) 20:04, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This is really nice too. I guess unknown copyright owner means copyrighted, even though it is in the JFK Library? --Beao 14:10, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I uploaded one with unknown copyright and had to replace it. Maybe the one that exists at the top could be cleaned up? Truthkeeper88 (talk) 22:32, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

text: Also, maybe this can be cleaned up? It's the back of the dustjacket from "For Whom the Bells Toll", so allowed to be used. I'm not any good with images, but perhaps someone else is who could clean it up a bit. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 02:16, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Why wouldn't it be copyrighted? --Beao 17:26, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Top image 

message: Less influential, and more prolific, authors' articles have lists of their work. Why doesn't this one?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.56.140.16 (talk) 23:06, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Ernest Hemingway bibliography is a separate article, linked  to in the See Also from this article. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 23:24, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bibliography? 

message: Read the first sentence under the header "Paris". There is something missing there it does not make sense. Thanks.
142.179.223.60 (talk) 19:36, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: If you read the previous paragraph it makes more sense. Don't hesitate to post here if you still don't understand. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 20:17, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request from 142.179.223.60, 21 May 2010 

message: I made two edits to the first paragraph of theintro/summary that I thought were fairly benign, but since one was revereted (without comment) I'll address them here. 
There is a statement that refers to "his apparent life of adventure and the public image he cultivated." I had removed "apparent" and "he cultivated", giving a detailed rationale in the comment. They were reverted without any corresponidng comment. 
Neither of these unnecessary modifiers is backed up in the article, or even referred to. They imply something other than NPOV. I think by any reasonable standard Hemmingway's life can be objectively described as a "life of adventure". That's not a fanboy talking, it's just an assessment of the events in the article itself...active participation in several wars, far flung travel, safari, etc...regardless of the legendary aspects of Hemmingway, these are real events and qualify as an unmodified life of adventure. I'm not sure what's "apparent" about it. 
On the second point, "he cultivated" implies an active shaping of legacy. This is not backed up in the article, and again, signifies a lack of NPOV. I suggest these two items be edited, or reason given as to why they are necessary and corresponding text be added to the article to back them up. Jbower47 (talk) 15:24, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually I agree with you, and intended rewrite the entire sentence but you fixed first. That he cultivated a public image is not disputed, but you're quite right, it's not developed in the article and should be. As for "apparent", again much of what he did was deliberately presented, but that also should be explained in the article. BTW - I will be moving this comment to bottom of the talkpage where new comments should be added. Thanks for the good advice. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 15:33, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks for your response. I think, though, even if one agrees he actively cultivated his image, that his life remains one of adventure, by objective standard. If his life is not one of adventure, I am at a loss to think of one which would better exemplify that term:). Even as somehwat hyped as his legacy may have been, there was still a solid core of experience there that shouldn't be lost in consideration of whatever discrepancies there might have been (like the beach landings vs. being retained on the craft, which I'd still argue had less to do with personal promotion than delivering an expected story.) I appreciate it!Jbower47 (talk) 15:40, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Honestly, I've always hated that sentence. An objective set of eyes is always welcome. The "apparent" has been removed. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 15:43, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

text: Jbower47, you mentioned being reverted without comment? I can't see any edits you've made to the article, so I'm guessing that an editor reviewed your edit and "unaccepted" it. I've not yet worked out how to see if that's occurred or not, so I can't offer much by way of explanation. In the meantime, if there are any further problems you can obviously get a sympathetic ear here on the talk page! TFOWR 15:44, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This this edit was made, and I replaced the word with the intention of rewriting the sentence entirely in a subsequent edit. My edit summary was somewhat terse for which I apologize. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 15:50, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  intro/summary 

message: Less influential, and more prolific, authors' articles have lists of their work. Why doesn't this one?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.56.140.16 (talk) 23:06, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Ernest Hemingway bibliography is a separate article, linked  to in the See Also from this article. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 23:24, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bibliography? 

message: Read the first sentence under the header "Paris". There is something missing there it does not make sense. Thanks.
142.179.223.60 (talk) 19:36, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: If you read the previous paragraph it makes more sense. Don't hesitate to post here if you still don't understand. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 20:17, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request from 142.179.223.60, 21 May 2010 

message: I made two edits to the first paragraph of theintro/summary that I thought were fairly benign, but since one was revereted (without comment) I'll address them here. 
There is a statement that refers to "his apparent life of adventure and the public image he cultivated." I had removed "apparent" and "he cultivated", giving a detailed rationale in the comment. They were reverted without any corresponidng comment. 
Neither of these unnecessary modifiers is backed up in the article, or even referred to. They imply something other than NPOV. I think by any reasonable standard Hemmingway's life can be objectively described as a "life of adventure". That's not a fanboy talking, it's just an assessment of the events in the article itself...active participation in several wars, far flung travel, safari, etc...regardless of the legendary aspects of Hemmingway, these are real events and qualify as an unmodified life of adventure. I'm not sure what's "apparent" about it. 
On the second point, "he cultivated" implies an active shaping of legacy. This is not backed up in the article, and again, signifies a lack of NPOV. I suggest these two items be edited, or reason given as to why they are necessary and corresponding text be added to the article to back them up. Jbower47 (talk) 15:24, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually I agree with you, and intended rewrite the entire sentence but you fixed first. That he cultivated a public image is not disputed, but you're quite right, it's not developed in the article and should be. As for "apparent", again much of what he did was deliberately presented, but that also should be explained in the article. BTW - I will be moving this comment to bottom of the talkpage where new comments should be added. Thanks for the good advice. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 15:33, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks for your response. I think, though, even if one agrees he actively cultivated his image, that his life remains one of adventure, by objective standard. If his life is not one of adventure, I am at a loss to think of one which would better exemplify that term:). Even as somehwat hyped as his legacy may have been, there was still a solid core of experience there that shouldn't be lost in consideration of whatever discrepancies there might have been (like the beach landings vs. being retained on the craft, which I'd still argue had less to do with personal promotion than delivering an expected story.) I appreciate it!Jbower47 (talk) 15:40, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Honestly, I've always hated that sentence. An objective set of eyes is always welcome. The "apparent" has been removed. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 15:43, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

text: Jbower47, you mentioned being reverted without comment? I can't see any edits you've made to the article, so I'm guessing that an editor reviewed your edit and "unaccepted" it. I've not yet worked out how to see if that's occurred or not, so I can't offer much by way of explanation. In the meantime, if there are any further problems you can obviously get a sympathetic ear here on the talk page! TFOWR 15:44, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This this edit was made, and I replaced the word with the intention of rewriting the sentence entirely in a subsequent edit. My edit summary was somewhat terse for which I apologize. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 15:50, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  intro/summary 

message: It is surprising in a featured, lengthy article like this there is such a great lack of info on Hemingway's Cuba connections including his close friendship with Fidel Castro (including their fishing races together), the Marina named after him outside Havana and the numerous places around Cuba (mostly in Havana) that have links to him, including a hotel room in Havana where he stayed and that is now a display in his honor (He wrote part of "For Whom the Bells..." here). 
--Arash azizi (talk) 07:28, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: For someone such as Hemingway, about whom so much information exists, it's difficult to add everything into a single article. The article does include a link to the Hotel Ambos Mundos (Havana) and that article includes some of information you've mentioned above. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 11:28, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: See also Floridita. Castro actually won a fishing contest in the Summer of 1960 and Hemingway presented him with the award. However, when EH and Mary left Cuba shortly after that, they never got back. Relations with Cuba turned sour that Fall, Cuba confiscated most American property (and industry from many countries) at that time. The US broke off relations and made it very difficult for Americans to travel to Cuba. So far as I can see, the Cubans didn't actually confiscate the Finca then, but EH and Mary probably both knew it was coming, and they couldn't get back to the country. In any case, EH spent the first half of 1961 being treated for depression (perhaps he could not have been as depressed had he been able to get back to his home in Cuba!) The Bay of Pigs happened in April 1961 and Castro announced Cuba was a Communist State on May Day, 1961. EH comitted suicide July 2, 1961 and Mary got a call from the Cuban government as soon as they heard about it, strong arming her into giving up the Finca as a museum. She really had little choice. They let her have some paintings and Havana bank vault contents, and she took what she could. SBHarris 05:05, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hemingway's Cuba Connections 

message: Is it worth mentioning that he was an ardent cat lover and that polydactyl cats are informally known in the US as "Hemingway cats" after the famous ones that he kept at Key West?  Refs , , also loads of pics on google images when you type in 'Ernest Hemingway cat'. 86.133.53.158 (talk) 17:12, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Have a look at Ernest Hemingway House about the property and the cats. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 17:23, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Would it be worth adding it to the see also section? They're great repositories for peripheral information. TFOWR 17:28, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Possibly, but Ernest Hemingway House is linked in the caption - used to be linked in the article. Need to fix the link. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 17:34, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: You're quite right, sorry. It's in the Key West and the Caribbean section. I'd done a  on "Ernest Hemingway House", which missed it. Apologies for the noise! TFOWR 17:43, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I added to see also anyway. There's a great interest in the polydactyl cats. Sometimes links are taken down per WP:OVERLINKING and I think that was one. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 17:47, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Having just clicked on polydactyl cat I heartily approve - we can never have too many black cats. ;-) TFOWR 17:57, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: That is The Cat. I think that cat may be descended from one of the kittens shown in this File: :File:Hemingwayboyscats cuba.jpg, so even the pedigrees are known. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 18:08, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

text: But I still think a brief (very brief) mention in this article wouldn't be out of place.  It's one of the few things I knew about his personal life before reading this article and I was suprised it wasn't mentioned at all.  Also, it would give more context to the photo of Hemingway and his sons and 3 cats in Cuba ... Sure, mention of the present-day cat population at the EH house should be in the EH House article, but a mention in EH's article to explain why they were there in the first place would be good. 86.133.53.158 (talk) 06:44, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem is that I don't think anybody knows where the Key West cats came from (except that they arrived after the Hemingway family had gone in 1940), so we don't KNOW why they were there in the first place. All Hemingway's Cuban cats were abandoned when the Hemingways could not return to Cuba, and if there are any of their descendants left in Cuba, it's certainly not because the Cuban govenment cares for them. So there is some irony that the cats very carefully kept and bred in Key West were never Hemingway's, while at the Finca where Hemingway once kept many cats, none are left exept perhaps some feral ones or those cared for by neighbors in the area.  I'll be glad to put in the photo and a couple of lines if anybody else wants to see it in this article. Otherwise, it occurs in both the Hemingway House article and the Finca Vigia article. SBHarris 18:14, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Luckily we have a nice image of the cats in Cuba. I suspect the caption could be expanded more so that we see him with the first of the cats and explain the cats. If that's not enough a sentence is easily added to the article. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 18:20, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Okay. I'll put in the photo with a longish caption and see if that works. SBHarris 18:29, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I've been watching developments from afar, but a couple reminders: the "see also" section should not typically include links that are already linked in the article; the current version detracts from legitimate "see also" links.  Plus, the new cat-friendly caption is waaay too long, almost a full paragraph!  Do we need to know that cats' names, or their ancestors' entire history?  If it's that important, include it in the prose -- one sentence, like Truthkeeper says above.  But let's not get carried away trying to please everyone.  (Full disclosure: I'm deathly allergic to cats.  Bleh.) María (habla conmigo) 19:24, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well, now you're trying to please YOU, who don't like cats. Groan. The deal is that the cats have got to go in the article SOMEWHERE, and they aren't discussed in the section on the Hemingway house in Key West. However, they are very significant and notable part of the Hemingway legacy, for reasons appreciated only to cat-fanciers (I admit I'm partial to cats). However, the house in Key West is devoted to cat breeding, and is one of the major reasons people go to see it. Yes, that's the place to discuss this more fully, but that IS the place this is discussed more fully. There's nothing wrong with a long caption per se (do you think the caption police will arrest us?). The long caption here keeps us from having to add cat info to the Key West house caption, or to the main article (where I agree that it would start to be a bit silly). But literally thousands of visitors a year interested in the "Hemingway cats" and at least one book devoted to them, means they should get a couple of lines in a photo caption. But I welcome input from others. So far we have two PRO (me and the editor above) and you against. Meanwhile, I'll remove the cat names. SBHarris 19:39, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  As soon as I get to my references (in a few hours) I'll see what the biographers have to say about the cats and add cited information to the text. Obviously the cats are of interest, and I think from an encylopedic point-of-view okay to mention briefly in the article. The issue is where, but the sources will help with that. On a separate note, I'm concerned about the Fair Use Policy for the new image because I believe 3d art (as in a sculpture) requires specific copyright templates. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 19:44, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

text: I, who am quite proud to continue my legacy of ignorance about Hemingway, know about the cats and Hemingway punching things, bedding lonely nurses, drinking barrels of fortified wine, gritting his teeth, remembering lonely nurses, and shooting himself. I don't think details about the cats' names are part of his impact on literature and punching things. I like cats. I love Key West. I'm ambivalent bordering on poking my eyes out with a fork when forced to read Hemingway. I gotta question how important the cats are. --Moni3 (talk) 19:45, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It is true that he almost got divorced when his third wife took advantage of his absence to have the cats neutered, and given the theme of emasculation in his literature you gotta wonder how bad that fight must have been! His leaving of Martha for Mary is a bit abrupt in the article, so I might be able slip the cats in there - Martha couldn't stand his uncouth ways and the cats (or some such), but need the sources, currently in a room with a sleeping child. Priorities again. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 19:51, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I was going to say something serious, perhaps along the lines of "risk of becoming overwhelmed by images with overlong captions and superfluous, repeated links... blah blah blah... WP:SEEALSO says to 'generally' not repeat see also links, WP:CAPTION says to keep captions 'succinct'"... but now I can't stop thinking Hemingway: machismo, woman-jew-homo hating drunkard brute with a thing for small, fluffy creatures that like to purr and play with yarn.  So I guess I'll just be quiet now.  María (habla conmigo) 20:10, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

text: Maria gets a roflcopter for the image. --Moni3 (talk) 20:13, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Excellent LOLCAT. And please remember the nuance for Hemingway. He was antisemitic when young, but got over most of it. He wasn't completely homophobic, as he had no problem with lesbians. And it wasn't all women he disliked, just American women (so he said-- except he married four of them). ;). Yeah he was a drunken brute, I give you that.  SBHarris 20:21, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for the history lesson, Sbharris -- you'd think my two degrees in English, with one undergrad class dedicated solely to Hemingway, would have taught me something about the man!  What was I thinking? :p María (habla conmigo) 20:35, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: You're welcome! If you didn't know the man personally, you probably learned about him from the same sources I did. And I presume you've been to all these places yourself, also, as I have; good for you. We can have a debate about "credentialism" but I can only report that I never make the mistake of thinking I know all or even most of what there is to know about the subjects I have sheepskins for. There's always something new to learn from somebody. And if I disagree, I should have a reference. That said, I like Steinbeck better and know more about him, so we may "meet" again there. SBHarris 22:30, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Is there a source for the Key West cats arriving after 1940? Truthkeeper88 (talk) 21:40, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, the 2003 article in the Hemingway review says that, more or less. I got more from it on a Google search which gave me some inner text, but the abstract should be enough for the fact that EH had no cats in Key West. Do you need a source for Pauline and the kids moving out after 1940? SBHarris 22:17, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

text: Sorry, I overlooked the abstract. If it's from the Hemingway Review I can access it later. The rest will be in the books.Truthkeeper88 (talk) 22:22, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hemingway and cats