Talk:High-altitude military parachuting

message: # the method is atributted to USAF Col. Joe Kittinger  but perfected by U.S. special forces
# add background information in which Kittinger's experiment and USAF's needs are explained
# HALO is really a form of skydiving, as civilians practice the free-fall method as a hobby  (information regarding the military should remain on the article anyway)
#  StratoQuest: a record-setting high altitude skydive from 130,000 feet, dedicated to scientific research, education, and space exploration. See also: 
# Add WHY somebody would do a HALO or HAHO techniques, and what are the advantages and disadvantages of them.
:HANO jumps -- newer technique in gel filled bag that never has a chute opening. Sometimes referred to as SPLAT insertion.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.23.124.142 (talk) 17:25, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  To Do 

message: In response to the request for expert assistance I emailed the POC for this site: http://www.batnet.com/mfwright/miljump.html
to see if he would be interested in assisting with this article. Unfortunately he checked the site after it had been vandalized (12:10, 1 June 2006). Because of the persistant vandalism, I don't believe he's interested in editing the site, but there may be some information from his site that may be of use in developing the article, if corroborated. 71.113.73.83 08:52, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recruiting Attempt 

message: :Original text:
"HALO and HAHO are acronyms that describe methods of delivering personnel, equipment, and supplies from a transport aircraft at a high altitude via free-fall parachute insertion. HALO stands for High Altitude-Low Opening, and is also known as Military Free Fall (MFF). HAHO stands for High Altitude-High Opening."
Would this be untrue?
:"HALO describes methods of delivering personnel, equipment, and supplies from a transport aircraft at a high altitude via free-fall parachute insertion. HALO stands for High Altitude-Low Opening, and is also known as Military Free Fall (MFF). HALO is synonymous with HAHO, High Altitude-High Opening, and HELO, High Extraction, Low Opening."
:HELO is a little different in that it normally uses a small drogue chute to assist in extracting any good sized payload from the rear of airlift and often that stays attached all the way down to stabilize and orient cargo for main chute opening. Heavy tumbling payloads can easily foul main chutes before they "inflate" or at moment of full inflation shock. So HELO is normally limited or controlled free fall of cargo. But the idea of minimizing drift, reducing visibility and time exposed to fire in transit is the same. (And yes HALO may use small drogue chutes for stabilization and control AFTER jump but BEFORE main chute deployment. It all depends on total mission parameters like awkward symmetries of personal equipment and extreme initial height of jump.)
If not, then would someone familiar with the topic clarify the military line in the HELO disambig page? MrZaiustalk 03:30, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: HELO the same thing?

message: Usually in my experience HALO refers to a high altitude aircraft in a tight circular pattern performing recon or communications relay.
Some disambiguation is needed on this page.
71.141.235.64 00:43, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  HALO = High Altitude Long Operations 

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:JB HALO.png

message: :Image:JB HALO.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot 04:45, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:JB HALO.png

message: As this article is about high altitude parachuting, it would be interesting to give a ballpark figure for a normal parachuting height (used by conventional military parachutists) in the introduction.  Thanks.  Maikel 11:21, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: What's the normal altitude?

message: I have found a contradiction in the article:
HAHO is used for delivering equipment, supplies, or personnel, while HALO is generally used only for personnel.
... and ...
For military cargo airdrops, the rigged load is pulled from the aircraft by a stabilizing parachute. The load then proceeds to free-fall to a low altitude where a cargo parachute opens to allow a low-velocity landing.
Please fix, thanks. Maikel 11:24, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Contradiction!

message: A dispute between my brother and i pertaining to the subject of falling speeds during a HALO jump, especially the one performed by the world record holder for highest HALO jump(forgot his name).
What is the velocity of a person falling from such a height?
and how long does it take from maximum height before the deployment of the parachute?
:Actually how fast they fall above 14,000 is largely a matter of mission design (streamlining of jump packages, use of small drogue chutes, etc). Speeds well above 200 mph are common. But once they hit the denser atmosphere at 10000 feet, they need to be slowed to near normal parachuting speeds. (High speed in normal air density introduces the danger of small movements resulting in catastrophic tumbling. Of course drag will eventually reduce airspeed to normal range no matter what they try to do. It is just a matter of when and how violently it happens.)
: Maximum height is the same issue. It depends on mission and resource availability. "Rumor" is that jumps have been made from aircraft able to fly above 100,000 feet in Cold War days to avoid advanced SAMs. But common sense says that such special aircraft are not always available or required. As maximum height varies so does potential fall times.
:But for records seek the story of the test pilot jump that holds the world record for public record maximums (123,000 feet or so). Even there speeds are only estimated and where definitely not constant throughout the jump. Peak speeds were estimated as in the high subsonic range (just below speed of sound at that altitude) and at least nearly 500 mph. And I don't know that the jump would be considered HALO. It was certainly high altitude start - but I think he opened his chute as soon as practical around 12000-10000 feet (need to review again to remember). He had a different purpose and wasn't trying to avoid detection or ground fire. 69.23.124.142 (talk) 19:08, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  important questions on the velocity one would be fallign at during a HALO jump 

message: The link for Big Boss itself leads to a disambiguation page with no information about this, and footnote #2 doesn't seem to mention this individual, either. Was this just some Metal Gear fan being silly? If not, somebody please supply some info regarding Big Boss.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.149.54.117 (talk) 07:34, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Big Boss?

message: Given that this article is supposed to be about HALO jumps, it nevertheless focuses entirely on the HA, and not at all on the LO. All altitudes refer to the altitude of departure, and marvel at how high they can get. Nowhere in the article does it even hint at a typical opening altitude. Reading this discussion page, apparently "below 4000 feet" is as specific as anyone can get. This is information too important to the scope of the article to be excluded. --76.203.23.23 (talk) 07:10, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I should add that "below 4000 feet" is not at all informative, since even civilian jumps are known to open as low as 2000 feet in some cases. --76.203.23.23 (talk) 07:12, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  No word in the article on the O. 

message: I'm a bit baffled as to why the word jump in this article title is capitalised. I'm also baffled as to why 'HALO' isn't capitalised in the title or why 'HAHO' isn't part of the title. Wouldn't 'HALO/HAHO' be a better name for the article?Big Mac (talk) 00:38, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name of this article - Why Halo Jump and not HALO or HALO jump/ 

message: The article claims that in the video game Medal of Honor: Airborne, the player starts the game off with a HALO jump.  This statement is entirely inaccurate, as HALO jumps did not even exist during World War 2, when the game takes place.  World War 2 insertions by US Paratroops involve virtually no free fall as the static line will open the parachute within the first few seconds of leaving the aircraft.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.243.86.183 (talk) 00:29, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Medal Of Honor: Airborne reference inaccurate 

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thread_title: File:CHUTEURCPA10.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: Regarding second paragraph "In typical HALO/HAHO insertions, the troops are dispatched from altitudes between 65,000 feet (20,000 m) and 75,000 feet (23,000 m)".... Where in the world does this come from??? Unless something is cited soon to verify this, which is highly dubious, it should be set to 25-35 thousand feet maximum altitude. Make sure you cite the type of plane used for this also, and it's service ceiling, such as B-1 (Lancer) bomber, service ceiling 60,000 feet. IF this is not changed or verified soon, Someone please do it. This is kind of a joke right now....
Msjayhawk (talk) 19:03, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Altitude

message: I inserted a reference for the typical altitude from Global Security...   Msjayhawk (talk) 21:18, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Reference for Altitude

message: Does the use of the HALO jump in a video game deserve to be mentioned?
If so then shouldn't we take it upon ourselves to list the times it has happened in every video game?
174.78.204.49 (talk) 20:10, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Metal Gear Solid 3 

message: Quoting the article: "For military cargo airdrops, the rigged load is cut free and rolls out of the plane as a result of aircraft deck angle (AOA). The load then proceeds to fall under canopy to a designated drop zone.
In a typical HALO exercise, the parachutist will jump from the aircraft, free-fall for a period of time at terminal velocity, and open his parachute at a low altitude. The combination of high downward speed, minimal metal and forward air-speed serves to defeat radar, enabling a stealthy insertion."
1) based on much earlier comments on this page (2007) I gather that among people who actually jump from aircraft and live to talk about it the term "canopy" is used rather than chute or parachute.  But I think that laypeople (which includes me) will overwhelmingly recognize the terms parachute and chute, not canopy.  Using the term canopy without introducing it makes it Jargon IMO.
2) In the last sentence quoted above, does "forward air-speed" refer to the aircraft (i.e., that the aircraft very quickly leaves the parachutist behind) OR to the parachutist (i.e., that the parachutist maintains "significant" forward air-speed before opening the canopy)?
Intriguing topic.  Thanks, Wanderer57 (talk) 02:27, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Two Questions 

message: Quoting our article: 
:"The origins of the HALO technique date back to 1960 when the U.S. Air Force was conducting experiments that followed earlier work by Colonel John Stapp in the late 1940s through early 1950s on survivability factors for high-flying pilots needing to eject at high altitudes.[1] Stapp, a research biophysicist and medical doctor, used himself as a human guinea pig in rocket sled tests to study the effects of very high g-forces. Stapp also resolved many of the issues involved in high altitude flight in his earliest work for the Air Force, and subjected himself to exposure to altitudes of 45,000 feet (14,000 m)."
Given this brief history, couldn't one say that the "origins" date back to the late 1940s?  Wanderer57 (talk) 10:29, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The British SAS were using HALO insertions as early as the Malayan Emergency and the Borneo Conflict.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.173.52 (talk) 15:43, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origins 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: As HALO and HAHO is generalized under MFF (Military Free-Fall). I feel like a generlized header under this category would be a good addition to this wiki. Currently In progress. (CataPike (talk) 23:25, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  MFF (Military Free Fall) Addition