Talk:Pope Gregory X

message: Should be somethign on the Marco Polo connection... AnonMoos 22:00, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Marco Polo?

message: It should be noted that indeed, the child is not being devoured, but being born.
:Maybe; maybe not. But devouring is the commoner gloss, I think. Perhaps because in the normal world it is less unlikely. Ian Spackman 00:33, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Visconti coat of arms 

message: This article was automatically  assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 02:05, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject class rating

message: There is something wrong with the dates in the references attributed to Paravicini Bagliani.  It is said that Gregory VII was crowned in 1076; he was actually crowned in 1273.  P B refers to an earliest date of a white 'cassock' as 1274.  It doesn't say when the regulations were to go into effect.  The reference is actually to an Ordo which Gregory X ordered compiled at the Council of Vienne in 1274 [It's in Mabillon, Museum Italicum II, p. 221 ff.].  When the Ordo was published is the question.  In January, 1276, a Dominican was elected pope;  Dominicans--and Pius V too was a Dominican--wear a white habit. There is a lot of iconographical evidence subsequent to 1274 that the popes habitually wore a red cassock (not the same kind of red that the cardinals eventually came to wear). However, as everyone knows, in liturgical circumstances most of the clergy wear the alb ('white'), a garment which reaches from the neck to the ankles. Is this 'cassock' actually the alb??  In the light of this, maybe the entire section, which is tangential, should be deleted, lest people be misled.
Postscript:  I went and looked up the passage in the Ordo XIII. It says that the Senior Cardinal Deacon removes the pope's cloak, and then dresses him in an albam Romanam, a camisiam ('rochet' according to Du Cange's Glossarium), and an orarium placed across his shoulders in the manner of a priest, or if he is a deacon across his left shoulder (this is the stola). And next he puts on him the mantum, and says, "Investio te de Papatu Romano".  Alba Romana is clearly not something peculiar to papal garb, but the first vestment that everyone puts on.  Paravicini Bagliani is talking nonsense.
Vicedomino (talk) 05:51, 3 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: VESTMENTS

message: IMHO, that box is mostly stupid (on this page).  Though Visconti spent a year in England, and may have learned a bit of English, nobody in his century addressed him by those titles, in writing, in speaking, or face-to-face.  One can find some of the actual written forms by looking at contemporary letters, and he would have been addressed in Latin (most likely) or in Italian (which was not yet a legitimate vernacular language). No literature had been written in it up to 1276, not even Dante.  What is in the box is mostly 20th century.
Walter Wickwane, Archbishop of York, for example, wrote to him with the direct address: Sanctissimo et reverendo patri ac domino
Vicedomino (talk) 23:24, 3 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Papal Styles box