Talk:Boiling liquid expanding vapor explosion

message: The article calls for a source on the 1959 KC incident. Is this FB post from the Missouri Division of Fire Safety suitable? It doesn't address the "First use of the term" claim on the KCFD page, but it does cover the event. https://www.facebook.com/mofiresafety/posts/3437262719629315 Cmhbob (talk) 20:51, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Notes

message: I'm not an authority, but the text says that transition of liquid water to steam causes a 22x expansion. I thought it was ~1700x (see article Steam). Mvsmith (talk) 15:09, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mechanism > Water Example 

message: The disaster in Texas City in 1947 was caused by exploding ammonium nitrate so I don't think that it should be included in this article. See Texas City Disaster for more information.
wysiwyg 21:25, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone "corrected" the date from 1978 to 1947, so yes, while the 1947 explosion was not a BLEVE, the one in 1978 was. I guess they get lots of explosions in Texas City. --Bob Mellish 08:00, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Texas City, TX doesn't belong in this article 

message: Information in this article is incorrect.
Please note that Bleve can happen with any liquid in a container. Because the container or vessel is holding water, as compared to LPG or Propane, it can still BLEVE. Tanks used in the industry are now required to have pressure relief valves that will open from excess pressure.
A BLEVE can occur when a vessel containing a liquid explodes or ruptures from being exposed to heat.
Such explosions can be extremely hazardous.  
A vessel holding a liquid will build pressure as it is heated and the liquid expands. The liquid will expand exerting force to the container.
Unless this pressure is released or heat is removed, an explosion can occur. A vessel that is already venting, can BLEVE if the pressure is not reducing from this venting action. A tell tail to this is the increase of pitch to the venting noise. Also a vessel can BLEVE quicker if the heat weakens the container to the point of failure. 198.50.63.15 (talk) 14:52, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Information is incorrect 

message: The new image looks good, but it may give undue weight to the presence of an external fire.
How does the rate of heat transfer to the liquid from the external fire compare with the rate at which internal energy is released from liquid in the tank?
Perhaps an external fire may create an overpressure to cause the initial rupture, and it may make the situation worse by igniting the escaping vapor. A gas explosion may be a secondary effect of a BLEVE.
If an LPG tank falls over and ruptures, couldn't a BLEVE happen even in the absence of an external fire? - Ac44ck (talk) 03:14, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fire in new image 

message: Was the LOX explosion of the Apollo 13 Service Module an example of this.  Was this mechanism involved in that incident?
Basesurge (talk) 09:27, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Apollo 13

message: Lets gets some talk on this one. Why is this not a valid thing to include in an article on the subject? This is a nearly-universal backronym; i got to this page a long time ago by way of it. Wikipedia is not a paper encyclopedia, it doesn't need to be shipped or stored or flipped through endlessly searching for the right word...  Sniper1rfa (talk) 23:23, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It needs a citation. Some sort of Cite that would prove firefighters use this as a a backronym. BTW, I don't believe http://www.acronymgeek.com/ counts on this one. Exit2DOS  • Ctrl • Alt • Del 12:07, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: the phrase "blast levels everything very effectively" shows up as being indexed by google in feb 2001, 3 years before this article was created. That good enough? The phrase had to come from somewhere...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.67.76.109 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blast leveling everything very effectively... 

message: Re-wrote this section for clarity. The original wording did not usefully explain the details of a BLEVE. 
Things to note: 
A BLEVE can occur without combustion. As somebody stated, if there is no oxygen or oxidizer there can be no combustion, however a BLEVE can without question still occur. 
With regards to the "high pressure", there can be very high pressures at the front of the shockwave. These pressures would in fact cause some portion of the substance to re-condense into a liquid. It is very common for shockwaves from all explosions to be readily visible by the condensation occurring within the shockwave. 
A bleve with a flammable substance can be ignited by extreme heating from friction as the substance rapidly passes some obstruction such as the torn remains of the vessel which once contained it. 
 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sniper1rfa (talk • contribs) 00:25, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mechanism.. 

message: Key points:
(1) Thermodynamically, when the overpressure preventing a superheated liquid from boiling is released (down to say atmospheric), in general only a portion of the liquid can flash to gas if the system is isolated from further heat input. Simply put, the latent heat of evaporation must be derived from the energy that was used to superheat the liquid. For water, about 2kJ/g is required to convert liquid to steam, whereas superheating water from 100 to 200 degrees C provides only about 400J/g. Thus only about 20% of the superheated liquid can flash to steam in this case. The example in the article where it says "It is obvious, then, that 204.4°C (400°F) liquid water at atmospheric pressure must immediately flash to gas causing an explosion." is nonsense. This misconception is also present in the accompanying diagram, which shows the entire contents of a ruptured container converting to gas. 
(2) Secondly, when the overpressure preventing a superheated liquid from boiling is released, the possible fraction of liquid that can thermodynamically convert to gas will not necessarily do so "explosively". For modest superheat, the liquid will probably just boil vigorously at nucleation sites on the container surface. Rapid conversion to gas throughout the liquid volume ("homogeneous nucleation") can be ensured by exceeding the "superheat limit temperature".
See e.g., http://repository.tudelft.nl/assets/uuid:a3514a6a-49d8-41b3-ada5-7a7dccb376ea/thermodynamic_and....pdf for a detailed discussion of the physics of BLEVEs
64.71.12.2 (talk) 18:34, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Basic physics is not explained and "misunderstood" in the article as it stands 

message: The article is written in poor tone. The text comes across as both antagonistic and overly instructive.
"There are three characteristics of liquids which are relevant to the discussion of a BLEVE" - please rewrite in a friendlier more accessible way. This is not a "discussion", this is an encyclopedic article. Focus on the facts, and boil it down for the reader.
Italicized words ("liquid"): Get rid of this. It comes across as confrontional: "if it doesn't involve liquids it ain't a bleve". Rephrase in a neutral tone - or even remove altogether; the "L" of bleve is after all "L for liquid".
"Imagine, for example". Inappropriate tone. Too repetitive. Talking down to the reader.
"It is important to note that a BLEVE need not be a chemical explosion" - why is this important? Is it because the authors are fighting an edit war or because there is a real reason?
213.112.134.159 (talk) 16:34, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Also the image caption: "Note that BLEVEs do not necessarily involve fire." Ok, I'm noting it. Wait, why am I taking notes when reading Wikipedia? And why is the image showing a big prominent fire, again? 213.112.134.159 (talk) 16:38, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tone 

message: The external reference HID - SAFETY REPORT ASSESSMENT GUIDE: Whisky Maturation Warehouses, mentions BLEVE 8 times.
Here is another reference to a BLEVE event at a whiskey aging (maturation) warehouse:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheapside_Street_Whisky_Bond_Fire#Explosion
Also, there is an article that says, “thousands of bourbon casks had been exploding like gunfire at the peak of the blaze in a seven-storey warehouse”. It is at:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/743083.stm  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Final Approach (talk • contribs) 10:40, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Liquor Aging Warehouses 

message: I have added the logo for the Chemical and Biochemical Engineering Project, since chemical engineers must often consider the potential hazards of BLEVEs in designing process facilities. Many of these engineers have knowledge and experience that can add to this topic. Less-experienced engineers may consult Wikipedia for guidance on the topic. ChemE50 (talk) 05:33, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Added project logo

message: This paragraph:
::If the pressurized vessel, containing liquid at high temperature (which may be room temperature, depending on the substance) ruptures, the pressure which prevents the liquid from boiling is lost. If the rupture is catastrophic, where the vessel is immediately incapable of holding any pressure at all, then there suddenly exists a large mass of liquid which is at very high temperature and very low pressure. This causes the entire volume of liquid to instantaneously boil, which in turn causes an extremely rapid expansion. Depending on temperatures, pressures and the substance involved, that expansion may be so rapid that it can be classified as an explosion, fully capable of inflicting severe damage on its surroundings.
Is full of italics that really break the 'flow' as you read. They aren't really serving a purpose, it's as if the writer decided you weren't capable of adding appropriate emphasis and did it for you. I will remove the italics it a few days if no one replies. WikiWisePowder (talk) 04:46, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Strange Italica in paragraph before Water Example 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Is the long list of examples really necessary? It doesn't reflect the encyclopaedic tone used on Wikipedia. Roly (talk) 14:35, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Long list of examples 

message: sone of the 2013 suggestions to add citations and change the tone seem to no longer be relevant, so I have removed them. I do agree that the list of accidents is perhaps overkill, but then why not include them? Ldm1954 (talk) 13:55, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article is adequate