Talk:Ligature (writing)

message: There seems to be some confusion about the image at the top of the page, which is a ligature of a long s ("ſ") and an i (as identified in the image description). Knulclunk changed the caption to identify it as a fi ligature which is incorrect due to the lack of a cross-bar. The long s has a nub on its left side at cross-bar height, which adds to the confusion. markegli (talk) 19:01, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps we should use this "ft" ligature instead to avoid confusion.--Knulclunk (talk) 21:35, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Image Caption

message: Removed:
:Thus our w is also a ligature.
Eh? -- Karada 00:26, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not difficult to see what whoever wrote this had in mind, but I agree that "w" is not a ligature. I have just learned, however, that it is an approximant, which has got to count for something. -- Itai 00:36, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: "W"

message: Somewhere it could be noted that in older German spelling there was (purportedly) a need for an fffl ligature for one compound word: Sauerstoffflasche, meaning oxygen tank. This has since been reformed to Sauerstofflasche under a rule that triple letters are to be avoided. --FOo 20:07, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you find a source for that? Sounds odd, but just may be true :-) — Jor (Talk) 20:21, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)

text: First, Sauerstoffflasche has always been spelt like that, it wasn't affected by the reform.  Secondly, due to (probably not only) German rules ligatures are broken up at sub-word boundaries, so it's merely an "ff" ligature followed by an "fl" ligature. – Torsten Bronger 07:33, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: The Requiem Italic by Jonathan Hoefler is probably the only font that has designed the extremely rare fffl ligature, to be used at least in two German words: Sauerstoffflasche (oxygen tank) and Sauerstoffflaschenspuler (oxygen tank cleanser). This same typeface has plenty of other unusual ligatures, such as stfl for "mistflower", cta for "octagon", ttfr for "Gottfried", a German name, tfl for "outflanked", sfy for "satisfying", ctfi for "factfinding", stfi for "Eastfield" and stfj for "Vestfjorden", and many others.
simply contains false information. According to German typographical tradition ligatures are not allowed over morpheme boundaries, such also not over word boundaries in case of compound words. Thus, fffl would NOT be used in Sauerstoffflasche, and similarly, ttfr would not be used in Gottfried (rather tt + fr ligature, if any). I do believe, that the original editor (or if he took the examples from the font's description) was just trying to find some examples "with brute force" without knowing (German) typography well. Which is a don't-don't concerning an article dealing with... well, typography (as Ligatures do).
I'm definitely going to remove the examples at least, if I do not encounter objection. Szabi 12:05, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Well, it's not really false information.  For artistic reasons, it may well be appropriate to use these ligatures.  It doesn't claim that they are mandatory after all.  However, it is not really clear either, so a clarification would certainly be helpful.  – Torsten Bronger 12:36, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "fffl"

message: fascinating.  i am such a nerd.  good work all.  141.211.231.113 01:17, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: good article

message: Article says that 
Ы
Ю
Я
are ligatures, but they are not. They are regular Cyrillic letters.
: Yozh 01:08, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: they originated as ligatures, just like w. dab (ᛏ) 12:54, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Cyrillic letters != ligatures

message: What about "fjord"? That's an English word. æle ✆ 01:18, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Calibri also has an fj ligature, as well as ti and tt. I cannot find the glyph codes though. Mathi80 (talk) 09:20, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: It may be that the close fitting is done in software that recognises these pairs of letters and changes the default spacing. See proportional spacing? AFAICS, all the latin small ligatures are in the block U+FB00 to U+FB12, of which only FB00 to FB06 are assigned. There is not even an fj glyph, let alone tt. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 15:22, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: The ligatures in fonts are probably either PUAs or made via ZWJ. The assigned ligatures in Unicode are actually quite rarely supported. ― Ö S M A N  (talk · contribs) 12:35, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: "fj"

message: I would argue that the article's description of ligature in the Arabic script is not quite accurate. 
"And in the Arabic alphabet, which has a very "fluid" shape, there is usually ligature between every single letter."
however, the article describes a ligature as "two or more letterforms...written or printed as a unit."
As a rule, when Arabic letters are connected, they are not truly written or printed as a unit. It is much like Cursive writing in English (and others). In a cursive English font, for instance, there is not a keystroke or character for every combination of adjancent letter, each is simply designed so that when they touch, the letter will still be connected. Granted, Arabic has several forms of each letter, such that a letter is writen differently depending on whether it comes first, last, or in the middle of a word or near a non-connecting letter.
There is (at least) one true ligature in Arabic, which is the "Laam-Alif", two letters with sounds similar to our English "L" and "A". The ligature is used often, most frequently when a noun beginning with Alif is made definite (and therefore the "Alif-Laam" definite article is added before the initial Alif of the word). Also, with the proper vocalization, "Laam-Alif" is the Modern Standard Arabic word for "No".
Some Arabic keyboards also have a ligature for the name of God, the Shahadah, and the blessings spoken and written after mentioning a Prophet or companion of the Prophet.
:You are correct.  The sentence you reference does not make sense, and was clearly written by someone who did not read the first sentence of this article.  I am going to remove it and replace it with a separate one-sentence-long paragraph mentioning the Laam-Alif ligature.
Cal 18:51, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Arabic ligature

message: I do not understand the relevence of the link to the Mrs. Eaves typeface in the external links section and am curious if it is spam. However, I don't really know.
:Mrs Eaves is well-known amongst typographers for its superfluous ligatures. jr98664 06:34, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Emigre: Mrs Eaves

message: æ (e dans l'a in french) is not a true ligature. It is really a regular letter. In caps, it is a regular lettre too. It would not be true if it was a ligature.
62.212.120.116 16:07, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "AE" / "OE"

message: Is the numero sign a ligature? —mjb 07:38, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No. It is a number-like symbol. -- Jordi·✆ 12:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

text: what's "number-like" about it? dab (ᛏ) 12:56, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That the Unicode Consortium has put it in a certain block does not preclude it from being a ligature because of it's form (shape) or use.  It certainly appears to be a ligature, but that's just my casual opinion.  You'd need a source before putting that in the article. Senator2029 “Talk”  01:20, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Numero sign?

message: :While VV developed into W, the modern Latin letter W is not a true ligature as it represents a different sound from VV/UU.
Well, so do Æ and Œ, in several languages... FilipeS 16:16, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: true, that's not a point at all. English doesn't even have the digraph uu, and vv only for purely orthographical reasons. dab (ᛏ) 16:36, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: W "not a tue ligature"?

message: On Ligature (palaeography) there's a long-standing proposal to merge it with this article. I agree. We can't explain typographical ligatures without explaining handwritten ligatures first, and parts of this article devoted to handwritten ligatures are much longer than entire Ligature (palaeography) article. I propose name "Ligature (writing)". Nikola 05:29, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But we can't even explain well what a typographical ligature is without going first through handwritten ligatures, and that article currently is a single-sentenct stub. Nikola 10:20, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge 

message: What about the Cyrillic characters Љ and Њ? AWN2 01:13, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ligatures of ЛЬ and НЬ, they're in the article. Nikola 10:21, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cyrillic ligatures 

message: Amended to say $ "probably" originated as a ligature, as the article lists several other possibilities. Rojomoke 10:02, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dollar sign 

message: The article lists swedish as a language with special ligatures but does not give any example. The swedish alphabet has a-z and three additional characters ÅÄÖ (åäö). It don't think any of these are ligatures, am I missing something? Foolip 09:26, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Swedish ligatures? 

message: This page is seriously confused in its presentation of 'common' ligatures and their equivalents. We should be drawing a greater distinction between presentation ligatures, diphthong ligatures and historical ligatures:
Presentational: Any 'ffi' run can be replaced by its ligature, and vice versa.
Diphthong: Letters such as 'æ' can be replaced by 'ae' but NOT vice versa (in general).
Historical: Letters and symbols such as 'W' and '&' may once have been ligatures, but can no longer be considered so.
The table is misleading and the graphic is ridiculous ('Et -> &' - really? So 'Ethanol' can be typeset '&hanol' can it?)
nemo (talk) 13:59, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Ligature, diphthong and historical confusion

message: Latin-Extended D has a number of weird vowel ligatures, viz.:
aa, ao, au, av, ay, oo, vy (U+A732-A73D, A74E/A74F and A760/A761)
I can guess their origin in medieval hand-lettering – they were just less popular than æ and œ. Should these be mentioned?212.137.63.86 (talk) 14:42, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd suggest that it's time to refrain from adding mention of yet more ligatures to the article unless they shed some new light on the greater topic. After all, the abbreviation article doesn't contain every abbreviation ever used (nor should it). —Largo Plazo (talk) 18:34, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unicode 

message: What should we do with all the "novel" ligatures (e. g Spanish DE ligature) that are posted on this talk page? Are there any historic infos on them? Should we mention them somewhere under a "modern ligatures"-section? — Tirk·ﬂ “…” 11:35, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There is nothing new or novel about the Spanish DE ligature. It is in fact very old and out of fashion. It is so rare now that I can't find much information on the Internet. In my ongoing investigations I today received from a typographer that "It is still used occasionally today to give a formal appearance, at least in Spain.  As for the time period, I study golden age lit where it was used heavily (also ß for ss)". Modern / novel ligatures would not interest me in the same way. — Hippietrail (talk) 12:19, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I did not suppose that it would be really "novel", therefore the double quotes. Shouldn't we add it to the article and "revive" its use?  — Tirk·ﬂ “…” 22:22, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I would like to but I know so little about it. There is no Unicode support, no mention of it in the RAE dictionary, very few discussions on the net, and the ones I have found ask more questions than they provide answers. Besides the photo I took myself I have only found two other images and I've requested permission to use one on the wikis. I have been told that I would find examples on www.cervantesvirtual.com but I've had not luck so far. In Australia the internet buckling under heave usage for the holidays it seems. And now I hear Spanish also used "ß" which I have never seen! We don't yet have enough info to put in the article... — Hippietrail (talk) 23:26, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The RAE concerns itself more with the everyday language than anything.  Since a DE ligature is impossible to type, it would essentially fall out of their self-imposed scope.  I will send them a query on it though.  To be precise, Unicode *does* support it, because the DE ligature is simply a presentation form for U+0044 U+0045.  Any OpenType font can be set up apply the ligature regardless of the fact that the text is split into two letters.  Re the ß, Spanish, like most (all?) Latin-script langauges used the mixed form for s, with both s and ſ being used.  While in modern Spanish this would be a non-issue for causing a ligation, given that modern Spanish does not use a double s, in older Spanish it was common (pasar --> passar in old Spanish) and occasionally, and almost always in italic faces, would get the two letters ligated into an eszett.  It did not serve a different fonetic function, as you could find, for example, the previous example written "passar", "paßar", "paſsar" and "paſſar" (but not pasſar, as far as I've ever seen).  If you look hard enough you'll find the eszett used in almost any language that allowed double s (English included).  If you go down the A6 in Spain near the Aravaca/Pozuelo exit there's a place called Casa de Monaco which uses the lig.  If you go to the center of Madrid, on the street signs you'll find more than just the DE ligature. Matthew Stuckwisch (talk) 08:30, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: So what to do with "novel" ligatures?

message: The article currently uses capital Y and small ÿ in a 'script' font to illustrate what handwritten IJ and ij look like. This is bad. Most computers do not have a font named 'script' installed. So the actually used typeface varies. And chance is small that a calligraphic-style typeface is used. The displayed Y and ÿ simply end up nowhere resembling handwritten IJ and ij. I would suggest that someone contribute a photo showing Dutch handwriting. IMHO, that is even better than an image created from some digitalized typeface. Kxx (talk) 07:25, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That's simply awful. There are better images on the article about Ĳ: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%B2 Tohuvabohuo (talk) 23:26, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Handwritten Dutch '''ij''' 

message: F, FV, V, W and WH was used in Swedish to depict different sounds now all spelled with V; with slightly different spelling in different dialects (we didn't have one standard spelling, every large publisher had one of its own). Those sounds are still present in most Swedish dialects, not in the dialects around our capital city or the most southern parts of Sweden, though. In the 1889 spelling reform they were all replaced by V.
The use of W and WH corresponded pretty close to that in modern day English spelling. Whenever I have to write an English word and I'm not sure of how to spell, I say the corresponding Swedish word out loud in my dialect and can usually hear/feel how it should be spelled (even better than if I hear the word in English spoken by somebody else), at least when it comes to V, W, WH, T and TH (modern Swedish usually spell "English TH" with T or D). (English could easily be mistaken as a very simplistic Swedish dialect, the only difference is: English has changed the meaning of old words more than Swedish, no use of tonality whatsoever, less then half of the Swedish speech sounds, different spelling, a lot of grammar missing, the few preposition left is put to random new use, few composite words, and it has a much smaller common vocabulary. Old English actually feels closer to modern Swedish dialects than to modern English. ;-)
I'm not sure this old use of W is worth incorporating in this article though. The Swedish Wikipedia article on the Swedish spelling reform of 1889  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Se mj (talk • contribs) 19:57, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Swedish and W: We used to spell with WH and W too 

message: Does anybody have the numeric character reference for the ct ligature?  I have thus far been unable to find it.  If anybody knows what it is, I would recommend adding it to the article.
Thanks, 98.117.49.203 (talk) 08:31, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This why I'm here, too. I am transcribing some English grave markers from the 17th Century where many of the carvings use that "ct" ligature. I see it briefly mentioned in this article as found in the Linux Libertine font, but it remains unnamed. There's an illustration that includes it; the caption says that it's available in Adobe Caslon Pro font, but again, it's unnamed. I don't see it when scanning through the Unicode Tables, but then I don't know its name in order to search properly. What is this ligature called? Thank you, Wordreader (talk) 21:29, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:   The ct ligature does not have a Unicode code point of its own. Instead, you have to activate the fonts' OpenType feature hlig ("Historic Ligatures") to convert ct into a ligature. This short PDF file describes how to procede in LibreOffice/OpenOffice.org (set the font family to Linux Libertine G:hlig=1 instead of Linux Libertine G), and this webpage introduces CSS code that handles OpenType features on the Web (use { font-feature-settings: "hlig"; }). Love —LiliCharlie (talk) 05:02, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you, LiliCharlie, for the information. You have added to my skills-set. The cemetery that I am transcribing is in England; I am transcribing the grave markers from the 1600s. So far, all the legible ones I have recorded use that ligature every time a "c" and "t" appear together. A very popular ligature, at least locally. Yours, Wordreader (talk) 06:43, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: , a bit off-topic but if you're interested in evoking the mood of 17th-19th century gravestones I hugely recommend Paul Barnes' professional digital font family Chiswick Text (no commercial interest). It has a colossal range of alternate characters (starting on p. 21 of the pdf specimen) intended to capture every kind of British vernacular lettering, much of it  inspired by the research of James Mosley. (It has seven different versions of the upright 'g' and another six in italic, to give you some idea of how much, as well as adaptations to four different sizes of text...) It was originally done as a project for the National Trust and it might be a bit overkill for hobbyist use-it really needs pro DTP software to access all the alt characters-but it's worth knowing about if this is something that interests you. Blythwood (talk) 09:50, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Great font. I haven't tested, but Chiswick Text seems to use the OT feature dlig ("Discretionary Ligatures"; registered by Microsoft) instead of hlig (registered by Adobe) for ligated ct, sp, and st. Love —LiliCharlie (talk) 12:42, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

text: Fonts from Adobe have these special characters mapped into the "private use area" section. They also include small caps, lowercase numerals and artistic variations of some initial letters. They can be inserted directly without special support in the word processor, and thus work in old versions too. The numbers are specific to the particular font or family. In "Adobe Garamond Pro" ct is at 0xE076 (). -- J7n (talk) 11:54, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Just a word of caution when using codepoints from the Private Use Areas range: these are not generally interchangeable between any arbitrary pair of users. What you see at 0xE076 (for example) may not be what I get (because whatever I'm using may have allocated that codepoint for something completely different). It will be ok if you print it of coursebut if you are getting it printed commercially, you will need to forewarn the printer to preload that Adobe font. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 12:20, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  The ct ligature 

message: What does the parenthesis mean? Does it merely need competent punctuation? —Tamfang (talk) 19:21, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  conventions note: used 

message: One understands why f and long ſ are often printed as parts of ligatures, but why ct and st?  Is it only because these are common clusters?  And what's the point of the loop atop these ligatures: is it to remind the printer that they are ligatures, or is it a relic of something scribes did, and if so why did the scribes do it?
If the article already explains this and I couldn't find it, I beg forgiveness. —Tamfang (talk) 19:13, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I have noticed that in Fraktur ch, ck, tz often appear to be ligatures, or at least very tightly kerned; but they have no extra stroke as sometimes appears in st, ct. —Tamfang (talk) 20:35, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Oftentimes they were just a type designers artistry, because it just looked better that way. it maybe considered as kerning taken even further. Take  for example (mono font chosen for clarity). The upper terminal of the f would have an ugly collision with the dot of the I, so just combine them. Bravo! 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 21:43, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll assume that fi is somehow relevant to my question about ct,st and I'm too thick to see how. —Tamfang (talk) 00:58, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Number one rule of a political answer: don't answer the question you are asked, just answer the question you wanted to have been asked. Guilty as charged. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 13:37, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

text: Also, don't forget that  means "broken" (as opposed to cursive). Each letter should be distinct. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 21:45, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Silly me, I thought it meant that the smooth arcs of otherwise rounded letters are broken. —Tamfang (talk) 01:00, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: You may very well be right, because my assertion is not based on any reliable source (though I have searched the web) and inference from Antiqua–Fraktur dispute. Do you have any support for your take on it? --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 13:37, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  ct, st: why? 

message: German ß is not part of the alphabet. ä, ö, ü aren't part of the alphabet either. The German alphabet has 26 letters. The special letters aren't included in the alphabet, but they exist. French theoretically has 42 letters, but letters like é, è, ê are not part of the alphabet. That's another example. --2.245.106.53 (talk) 12:40, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  German ß 

message: Just suggesting a cross-reference to the Norwegian Kjell (letter), used in Nynorsk and occassionally in Bokmål.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.90.242.55 (talk) 18:26, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Norwegian kjell (kj) 

message: The first sentence under Massachusett ꝏ reads -
"In the colonial orthography created by John Eliot, later used in the first Bible printed in the Americas, the Massachuset-language Mamusse Wunneetupanatamwe Up-Biblum God published in 1663, although Eliot had previously translated catechisms and published books of the Bible as well as trained Indians to become literate who in turn trained others."
But what does it mean? - It has no predicate.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:16B8:46AD:3F00:EDE0:1382:28C5:848E (talk) 12:10, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Good question. I've attempted to untangle it a bit, leaving out some of the background covered by the "Massachusett writing systems" article linked at the start of the sentence. Nitpicking polish (talk) 14:37, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  What does this mean? 

message: Ethanol can be written &anol, if you really want it to!  it was talking about it's origin, but it is no longer used that way.  if you looked at the ꝏ section, sometimes they're used in other ways.
73.231.181.239 (talk) 18:12, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nemo, it can 

message: like ae, yae etc. the ladder looking things.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.7.165.189 (talk) 18:22, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Ladder looking things like ㅐ ae and ㅒ yae. Don't know if they belong here or not. Troll Control (talk) 23:28, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  what about the korean vowel ligeratures? 

message: A discussion is taking place to address the redirect :Ꜵ (former Unicode lowercase). The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 October 8#Ꜵ (former Unicode lowercase) until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.   -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she/they) 06:05, 8 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Ꜵ (former Unicode lowercase)" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: There are computer fonts that use ligatures to create icons. For example, typing "heart" with the Ligature Symbols font produces a heart icon. These help screen readers read out icons correctly (instead of speaking out a single letter for an icon as in Wingdings and similar fonts). The icons can be customized like text, instead of using an image editor. 
Possible sources: 
http://thenewcode.com/620/Why-You-Should-Consider-A-Ligature-Icon-Font-For-Your-Next-Project, https://developers.google.com/fonts/docs/material_icons, https://alistapart.com/article/the-era-of-symbol-fonts/ Wing Hong Chan (talk) 16:48, 24 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ligature Icon Fonts 

message: Would it be reasonable to say that the interrobang character is a ligature ?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jawitkien (talk • contribs) 20:45, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think so, it is more an overprint than a ligature. But if you can find a wp:RS that says so, problem solved. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 20:54, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  interrobang? 

message: I have removed this text from the article since the only source is the personal website of a single non-notable individual. That makes it wp:UNDUE and potentially a violation of WP:PROMO or WP:ADVOCACY:
If anybody believes it should be restored, they will need to provide WP:RS citations. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 14:10, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Programming languages 

message: Currently Massachusett ꝏ reads:
: [T]he double-o ligature "ꝏ" [represents] the "oo" () of "food" as opposed to the "oo" () of "hook" (although Eliot himself used "oo" and "ꝏ" interchangeably)
I think some clarification is needed here.  The text sort of implies that  was invented as a way to represent  in Massachusett with  representing .  The food and hook are just there as examples of the sounds for readers not familiar with the IPA.  However this reading is false.  Massachusett doesn't have the  phoneme to contrast with. It doesn't even really have , it has the very similar  which is the sound represented by .  So these can't be Massachusett phonemes that are being discussed.
When you look again with this in mind it seems that these are English phonemes.  Many varieties of English have both  and , and the examples are both English words.  But why are we discussing  and  to represent English sounds?  Perhaps the intended implication is that  was invented for English orthography to represent this distinction and  ended up in Massachusett as a result.  However this seems pretty inconsistent with the fact that Eliot used  and  interchangeably.
Ignoring this text for a moment, if we look elsewhere and make some educated guesses it seems like  and  were used interchangably in Massachusett orthography for  based on  sometimes use in English as .  The ligature was more useful because it makes more sense to write a single phoneme as a single letter and thus stuck around.  If this is the explanation I think mention of  should be struck from the text entirely. It should read something like:
: [...] the use of the double-o ligature  to represent  based on the sometimes use of  in English to represent  ( food).  Eliot himself used  and  interchangeably.
With that in mind I've marked the text as requiring clarification, since I cannot make sense of what is being said.
AquitaneHungerForce (talk) 12:58, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no idea about IPA usage of ꝏ but I can point you to the Unicode proposal for the character: L2/06-027 Proposal to add medievalist characters at https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2006/06027-n3027-medieval.pdf  See "Figure 28" and "Figure 87" for examples of usage.  Not sure if this helps. DRMcCreedy (talk) 15:00, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  The proposal discusses its use in Old Norse so not terribly relevant here however the usage of the character is pretty well covered by Massachusett orthography.  The real issue here is a question of history.  Perhaps the claim should just be removed altogether with a focus on what can be supported via citation. AquitaneHungerForce (talk) 21:54, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  For what language was the ꝏ created? 

message: As it stands, the article makes extensive use of bold to "isolate" glyphs for analysis. The convention in linguistics is to use angle brackets for this purpose, thus (for example),  rather than a (using template:angbr). Where needed, the template  is also available: although originally designed to isolate small marks like apostrophe, it has gained wider use when the formal markup is not appropriate or additional distinction needs to be made thus, . Use of 'bold' for this purpose is unconventional and contrary to MOS:BOLD. (The MOS advises editors to use italic markup when a use mention distinction is needed; when looking at characters as characters, this adds an additional and unnecessary complication that is best avoided.)
As may be seen from the history, I changed one section to use the "correct" markup but reverted when I saw how extensively the rest of the article is using bold. I would like to revise the markup in the article but thought it wise to seek consensus first. This is the effect:
Comments? 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 16:07, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Hard cases make bad law but compare also the clarity of ₧ v. .  --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 16:28, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use of bold to isolate glyphs 

message: In the Digraphs section, Paragraph 2 doesn't seem to follow from Paragraph 1. Formatting is removed in the cut/paste below:
Digraphs, such as ll in Spanish or Welsh, are not ligatures in the general case as the two letters are displayed as separate glyphs: although written together, when they are joined in handwriting or italic fonts the base form of the letters is not changed and the individual glyphs remain separate. Like some ligatures discussed above, these digraphs may or may not be considered individual letters in their respective languages. Until the 1994 spelling reform, the digraphs ch and ll were considered separate letters in Spanish for collation purposes. Catalan makes a difference between "Spanish ll" or palatalized l, written ll as in llei (law), and "French ll" or geminated l, written l·l as in col·lega (colleague).
The difference can be illustrated with the French digraph œu, which is composed of the ligature œ and the simplex letter u. Blamusico (talk) 01:07, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lack of logical connection in "Digraphs" section?