Talk:Orient

message: I've removed this link before--with it being replaced each time--as I believe because Wikipedia discourages the use of forums...due to the reader not knowing who is doing the posting. I've removed the link once again, however, it seems to not be working.
My question is: Does the link (if it is working) up to Wiki standards to remain in the article or not?--Joel Lindley 08:53, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Forums are not generally linked to, for the reasons you express. --Wetman 12:42, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Protein Wisdom Bulletin Board

message: Rather than reverting these recent edits wholesale, I attempted to go through and weed out phrases like "minority opinion" and "majority opinion" that are unsupported by any real evidence. Please discuss before putting them back.--Media anthro 13:15, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  describing "pro-Oriental" as the "majority position"--obviously POV 

message: Can any interested editors comment on 1) the tone of the article, particularly Perceptions and connotations 2) the appropriateness of the sources used to document various positions in that section?  
It's difficult to recommend any good starting point on this talk page for more background, but try this. Thanks. --Media anthro 22:48, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request for comment 

message: In addition to Oriental, many images and words are "banned" from modern textbooks. Of course there are many scholars and commentators who disagree with the banning of these words and images. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.108.89.17 (talk) 03:32, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A long list of such asserions has no place in an enyclopedia article. Editors who log in aand sign their posts on talkpages re often taken more seriously. --Wetman 04:50, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

text: "banned from modern text books". This statement seems to be US-centric and not generic to the English speaking world, or the rest of the world.--jrleighton 06:45, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Banned Words and Images 

message: "The creation of a polarity oriens/occidens originated in Roman imperial administration from the time of Diocletian and was taken up in Christian Latin literature, but the term Orient did not enter Western European languages until the time of the Crusades[1]" -- What does this mean? How can the poliarity oriens/occidens have been CREATED? the concept of west is DEFINED as the opposite of east -- the polarity is inherent to the meaning of the term. And how can the term orient not have appeared till the Crusades if (as was just noted) the words are Latin and date back to Diocletian at least? What is this supposed to mean?--24.199.120.71 21:59, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Query 

message: The vasy majoritry of debate about this article arises from the fact that it redirects from "oriental". Most of this concerns US debates about "PC" and anti-PC terminology, debates that are largely meaningless ouitside the USA. I propose that we split the article into two separate ones Orient and Oriental. The latter might be called something more specific such as Oriental (ethnic label). Most of the Pro and Con stuff about the use of the term as a synonym for East Asian/Mongoloid etc could go there, with a link from here. Paul B 15:44, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Orient or Oriental

message: It is hardly the fault of American editors that other international editors have not contributed to this section.  Actually, the onus may lay with other international editors to get off their collective "donkeys". 72.190.100.130 03:37, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, I don't think that's not the problem. The problem is that American editors tend to have a far more emotional and political investment in this concept than people elsewhere in the world. Paul B 11:34, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, outside N. America, "orient/oriental" is not controversial. LDHan 19:32, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

text: The term is not controversial in North America either. However, there is a tiny number of political activists who want to attach a stigma or victim status to the world oriental and thereby justify their pandering and prostituting for political gain. They exploit the ignorance of some and the compassion of others to exploit the American political system. This doesn't actually solve any problems, but it does generate a flow of government dollars to their "cause." 68.100.207.219 17:58, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Recent Tag: Globalize USA

message: Under the subheading "Usage of term", "Orientalism" should link to the Wiki article on the book; it currently links to the broader topic.  I'd rectify that, but I just don't know how.72.84.148.120 (talk) 07:11, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Wrong Link

message: In the last sentence is it not redundant to say "The only other alternative..."  How about just, "The alternative is to refer..."  What do you fair people think?
By the way, I live in the US but I spent several months in Afghanistan.  Much of my time was spent with British citizens, and they referred to the locals in this Southwest Asian country as Asians.  The Brits also referred to some South Korean military officers as Orientals, and there was nothing derogatory about it that I could detect.  My ancestors came from Norway, but I certainly do not get upset if someone calls me Scandinavian instead of Norwegian or American!  Hildenja (talk) 16:21, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: British English

message: Forgive me, but the tone of the intro was quite inappropriate for an encyclopedia, so I took the liberty of rewriting it, from:
The "Orient" is a term traditionally used in Western culture to refer to the Middle East,  and Egypt resp. the whole Arabian influenced North Africa. Today also the eastern and southeastern Asia is sometimes called "Orient", except Russia, i.e. North Asia. The term "oriental" is considered politically incorrect. It refers to Asians as the people to the east, which makes the person using the term "oriental" declaring himself better than the Asians because he is basing the world around him. This may have been an acceptable term to us a long time ago, but times have changed and we know we are all equal, so the term "oriental" is politically incorrect.
--Adoniscik (talk) 20:51, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I know this last post was a bit old but I don't know about you, but I'm Chinese (and in the USA) and I don't percieve being called "Oriental" as being politically incorrect at all. I actually think that since "Oriental" (at the currect time) refers more specifically to the Far East (excluding Russia), specifically Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietmanese etc. that it is a more useful term than just "Asian" as Asia is a large continent with many different kinds of peoples. The use of "Oriental" is therefore more useful in this respect as it refers to a specific group of Asians. Also, I think there should probably be some sort of proof or citation for "Oriental" being considered PC or not PC, because, like I said, the Oriental people I know don't think "oriental" is not PC. But that's just my two cents. 97.101.32.93 (talk) 05:22, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Tone of intro

message: Originally "Orientals" were Semites. The common Arabic look was known as "Orientalid", and Jews were frequently referred to as "Orientals". "Oriental" meaning "East Asian" is a very modern concept. Something to this effect should be added to the article. I'll look for links... Dr Rgne (talk) 10:14, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Arabia

message: I have edited the part that said the whole Western World uses the term "oriental" to describe a person or artifact of East Asian origin. This is wrong!!!This maybe true for America - but is Wikipedia English only catering Americans? Not!!! The Term oriental refers in most countries to the live style , culture and products of the Middle East, North Africa and sometimes South Asia and even Central Asia.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.176.36.176 (talk) 06:03, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edited 

message: I added a  tag just before the Perceptions and connotations section, with the following reason: 
The rest of this article talks exclusively about the uses and perceptions of the term Oriental (and not the Orient) and would be better split into a separate article, interlinked in the See also section. This would improve the mapping of the language interwiki links, since other language wikipedias generally keep the concepts (Orient the noun meaning a vaguely defined region of the Earth; Oriental the adjective meaning of the Orient or of the east) separate. -84user (talk) 16:30, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Most of the dispute is about its use as a specifically ethnic/racial label ("I saw two orientals earlier") rather than anything else. I cerationly agree that this should be split. It arises because Oriental is currently a redirect to Orient. I suggested this back in 2007, but the page was a bizarre battleground then. Paul B (talk) 16:37, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  cleanup proposal 

message: oriental means arab and bizantine, the usage of word oriental in U.S is wrong. in US, many things are used wrongly such as hispanic which means people from spain kingdom.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.179.82.180 (talk) 20:44, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oriental means Arab and Bizantine empire not far east 

message: The Derivation section has "The Land of the Rising Sun" to refer to Japan as an example of using "sun/rise" to refer to "east." The fact that Japan is east of China, and thus the sun rises on Japan before China (hence the name), has no reference to the terms for "sun/rising" being analogous with "east." I think it's irrelevant and should be removed, but I'm new here so I don't want to just go and delete something if someone else has a valid argument for its legitimacy.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Phoenix 6 (talk • contribs) 02:36, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is "The Land of the Rising Sun" even relevant? 

message: I have updated the section from Remnants of the older conception of the Orient still exist in the English language in such collocations as Oriental studies (now Asian Studies) to Equally valid terms for the Orient still exist in the English language in such collocations as Oriental studies (now Asian Studies in some countries).
There is a widespread belief that moving to 'Asian Studies' by some seats of learning in the US and elsewhere was based on political correctness and has nothing to do with definition.
My personal belief which is neither here nor there is an attempt by certain elements to Americanize and 'correct' the English language according to some local ideology. 
Please refer to [Studies]. Being both British and coming from a very long line of men serving their country in the 'Orient' and having served as a journalist there for over twenty years I have never come across whether anecdotally, through research or in literature the use of 'Orient' to describe India, it is usually applied to Japan, China, Korea and so forth.Twobells (talk) 11:39, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. The term is only used for East Asia or southeast Asia. Not South Asia. Saturdayseven (talk) 12:24, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Southeast Asia, from Burma eastwards, is most certainly in the sphere known nowadays as "the Orient". BUT the older term "the Orient" began at, well, Vienna and definitely included places like Constantinople (Istanbul) and Alexandria.  "The Oriental Question" referred to the diplomatic fun and games attending the slow collapse of the Ottoman Sultanate; and the name "the Orient Express" meant that the train went to Constantinople (not Beijing).  I think you people need to read more books and take off your narro-viewpoint blinkers.Skookum1 (talk) 18:47, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Certainly, in modern British English usage "oriental" means "East Asian" (oddly "Asian" normally means "South Asian"), but of course the word has historically been used to mean any culture determined to be "eastern" - definitely beginning with Turkish and Arabic cultures. Paul B (talk) 18:50, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Usage of Term 

message: "In British English, the term Oriental refers to people from East and Southeast Asia. On the other hand, the word "Asian" refers to people from Indian Subcontinent. Therefore, Orientals is the only term which can refer to people of East Asian origin."
*I would say that Oriental usually refers to people from East and Southeast Asia, especially in "modern" use, but it is also sometimes used to mean "Asian" more generally (especially in older but extant excamples).
*"Asian" when used to refer to people (as in "Asians") is most often used to refer to people from the Subcontinent for the simple reason that most Asian-origin people in the UK are from there.  But that doesn't mean that people from other parts of Asia can't be described as Asian or Asians (anecdotally, I know several people of Chinese origin who refer to themselves as such).  (Just to make things even more inconsistent, an "Asian restaurant" generally means on serving food from East/Southeast countries.  One serving food from the Subcontinent would normally be refered to as "Indian" - even if it was Pakistani or Bangladeshi).
*The last sentance is ambiguous (and wrong in all interpretations I can see).  As written, its wrong, because "Asian" can refer to East Asians.  I think it is trying to say that "Oriental" is the only term than can unambiguously be used for East Asians, but that is still not true as a) "East Asian"/"East Asians" can also be used, and "Oriental" isn't necessarily unambiguous. 
Iapetus (talk) 15:57, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Use in British English": inaccurate (or confusingly worded) 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: ...is clearly Orient. It's even more orientalic than some countries of Far East, especially the culture of Uzbekistan is like a totally synonym for Orient, than there is
Iran...but also Kazakhstan and other countries. This article needs much more perspectives  --92.196.44.182 (talk) 16:44, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Central Asia.... 

message: I studied German in college and one thing I learned is that the German word for "Austria" is "Österreich". I think this would literally translate as "Eastern Kingdom." Similarly, "Öst" means "East," so it seems to me that there is a likely connection in German due to Austria's easterly(ish) position from (southern) Germany. Finally, the German word for "Easter" is "Öster." Since Easter is a holiday highlighting a kind of rising, not of the sun, but of a person, the fact that "East" is part of the word for "Easter" in German and also a part of the German word for "Austria" leads me to think there is likely a connection between the three terms for "East," "Eastern Kingdom," and "East ... er." (I don't know what the "er" suffix, used in both German and English, indicates. I doubt that it is there because the German word for "he" is "er.")
Since I'm just a database programmer who got a minor in German, I don't have the fluency needed to sort this out, not even with automated translation tools because of the errors and lost nuance that they can cause.
So, native and other fluent German speakers, what do you think about this idea? Should it be considered for inclusion in the etymology section or am I wrong about these ideas? Thanks.
: A country's name IN Europe is IRRELEVANT in this context of a region outside and east of Europe. -- BhagyaMani (talk) 09:22, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  A question for German speakers 

message: Mma 120.29.117.198 (talk) 05:08, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Max