Talk:Khotyn Uprising

message: 1. Numbers. 
a. Population. The article speaks of a "mass exodus of civilian population (about 50,000 people) from Khotin to Soviet Ukraine". Now, Khotyn has never been a large city. In the days of the uprising, its population was of about 24,000. See this link
http://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/pages/K/H/Khotyn.htm
where one may also learn that "Since most of the town's inhabitants were Jewish or Russian, Ukrainian cultural life was insignificant until the early 20th century". It is obvious there were never 50,000 people in Khotyn, let alone 50,000 Ukrainians, as one is led to believe by the article. Also, why would civilians flee to Soviet Ukraine, since the most of the "guerilla fighters" do not appear to have been local people, but "armed bands from Podolia", although "reinforced by the local Ukrainian peasants".
b. 20,000 guerilla fighters. From the only available source that is listed below, the uprising seems to be one of several rather minor skirmishes, which did not require the presence of "the major forces of the Romanian army" (by the way, this does not sound like proper English; perhaps you mean something like "major Romanian forces", or "important forces of the Romanian army". Then why would about 4,000 of the guerilla fighters ("the fifth part") defect to Ukraine? Maybe they "escaped" to Ukraine. "Defect" means to "abandon one's cause or party or country usually to join another". Either these people were not locals and did not defect anything (communism or Ukraine), or they were locals, and then "to defect" would be too strong a word (it is used especially in cases when someone "defects" from a country that does not respect human rights - a common use is for Soviet citizens who defected to the West, not vice versa).
2. Reign of terror. The 11,000 executions are not documented in the external link listed here. Are they documented in the book mentioned here, which was published by communists? How would that be a reliable source. Also, the article speaks of "thousands more ... deported to katorga and labour camps". As for katorga, the wiki link shows it's strictly a Russian term, so it has nothing to do with Romania. Now, in regard with "labour camps", I am pretty sure there were NO labour camps in Romania prior to the installment of communism. I don't have any kind of evidence for that, because one cannot have evidence for something that does not exist. But let me put it this way: labour camps are used by totalitarian regimes (1) to punish opponents and (2) for large state-handled economic projects. In 1919, Romania may not have been heaven, but it was not a totalitarian state, and had no such projects. The state had no projects, since it had no property. Everything was owned by the damn capitalists. The end of the article shows that these damn capitalists were really the bad guys anyway, for the region was finally "liberated" by the Soviet army.
Quatrocentu 09:38, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed, Romania had no labour camps before the Soviet occupation of late 1940s. People that were convicted of certain crimes and considered "dangerous" were sent to Doftana Prison. That prison became famous for housing many of the post-war Communist Party leaders, including Ceauşescu. The Communist Party was banned because at the time it militated for the breakdown of Romania and had some sabotage missions against those damn capitalists. :-) bogdan | Talk 15:07, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Inaccuracies that need editing

message: Since no one responded to these problems, I consider that the Soviet source is unreliable and as such I'm removing affirmations based on it. bogdan | Talk 17:57, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Changing

message: I see there is a revert war raging on here. What is it with this article that can't be solved at the talk page? Halibutt 12:13, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It's hard to solve the problem on the talk page when one of the parties (User:Ghirlandajo) never looks in here... bogdan | Talk 13:52, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Dispute

message: :Many historians estimate that 11,000 people were executed, and thousands more were deported to katorga and labour camps (although some Romanian historians consider these numbers inflated)
# katorga -- Katorga "was a system of penal servitude in Imperial Russia. It was not in Romania.
# labour camp -- The state of Romania had no such thing before WWII. Give me one neutral reference that gives a description, or at least a neutral source mentioning such a camp in Romania.
# "many historians" -- all you have is a reference about a Soviet publication! Give a list of a few from those "many" historians that support this.
# "some Romanian historians" -- give me one example of a Romanian historian who said that. bogdan | Talk 14:07, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  "many historians" 

message: Found another reference. I'll see what it writes next week, when I'll get to the library. bogdan | Talk 10:32, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference 

message: Ghirlandajo, until the issues in the inaccuracies section added by User:Quatrocentu are not solved, one way or the other (prove that they're not inaccuracies or remove from the article), I'll keep the dispute tag. bogdan 09:38, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The dispute 

message: I've protected this. There seems to be a large-scale edit war going on. Please discuss...
:Semi protection would be sufficient I think. --Irpen 18:52, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'd rather not. This edit warring involved old editors too William M. Connolley 19:00, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Protection removed. A single troll is not the reason. I believe the "old editor" Bogdan is pretty much reasonable person, and I believe he and Irpen can find common language. `'mikka (t) 20:13, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protection 

message: I don't think such move would change anything but would like to quickly inquire here first. Objections? --Irpen 18:04, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds good to me.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  23:46, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Move to [[Khotin uprising]]

message: The article is based almost exclusively on ukrainian sources and is hence strongly biased. This is another point that needs improvement, possibly from Romanian editors.85.233.19.97 (talk) 19:15, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Bias

message: We try to organize the rewrite. We will rewrite the article from scratch, as we believe that editing this version is pointless. We have access to both old and modern Romanian sources. We lookfor an Ukrainian (or someone who can provide ukrainian sources and can read Ukrainian) editor to help us with the new article. Pls. contact me on my talk page also if you have additional materials. RegardsOctavian8 (talk) 13:57, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Is your name perchance Legion? Also "old Romanian sources" are as useless as Ukrainian Banderist ones.Anonimu (talk) 17:06, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Is my name Legion... are you trying to be funny, or just play intelligent? If you can help with the rewrite, than say so, otherwise, hold thy peace.Octavian8 (talk) 13:52, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Rewrite

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060720092245/http://www.vesna.org.ua/txt/dov/istukr/IIIh.html to http://www.vesna.org.ua/txt/dov/istukr/IIIh.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060720092245/http://www.vesna.org.ua/txt/dov/istukr/IIIh.html to http://www.vesna.org.ua/txt/dov/istukr/IIIh.html
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thread_title:  External links modified