Talk:Australian Cattle Dog

message: Suffice to say there's an industry behind most dog breeds now, with implicit bias and conflicted interest. The editors of the article are as tenacious (and here's a hint: aggressive) as the subject of the article -- in keeping it free from balance. The article is a singularly glowing assessment of the breed, written by lovers of the breed... for lovers of the breed.  Suffice to say, a bit of research elsewhere, can reveal there's a more to the breed's temperament than the article suggests... or allows.  A certain tension over this issue has gone on for years and gets scrubbed/retired regularly, including in the archives of this Talk page. Sigh. 842U (talk) 13:18, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, ACDs can be jerks - they regularly try to bite me at work (I am a veterinarian). Some are nice, some are not. I'm not sure specifically what you want included, but if there is well sourced information available that suggests a counterpoint to temperament that you feel should be included, I'd say include it with the citations. If it gets inappropriately removed repeatedly it can be replaced or an admin alerted to partially lock the article.. I'm not an expert on wiki procedures but we shouldn't be leaving out pertinent information because some people don't like it. Connor Long (talk) 17:19, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I gave up years ago. As soon as the article reflects balance, it gets scrubbed again to present a one-sided view. 842U (talk) 12:18, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Do your own research: Breed temperament

message: Recently the breed's purported dingo ancestry was removed (previously it was stated tamed dingoes were used in establishing the breed). Is there some evidence this is not actually the case? AKC's site supports dingo ancestry, as does the prior Dog Named Blue citation that several contributors are in a tizzy over due to potential conflict of interest issues (I think the author of that book tried to edit the article even though she wasn't the one that added the citation - I'll leave that to the hardliners to keep posting conflicting wikipedia doctrine back at each other to the detriment of the actual article, as appears to be the time honored tradition. There is a discussion on the COI page, though I am confused as to what the plan/goal is for that discussion or if/how it will affect this topic). 
I digress - point being, for regular folks who aren't particularly involved with ACDs, the dingo ancestry is basically the most interesting/notable thing about them, and should definitely be included in an encyclopedia article about them, unless there is debate about whether or not that is true. Do any fellow editors contest that dingo ancestry is true? Connor Long (talk) 17:06, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Robert Kaleski insisted that Thomas Hall crossed an imported working dog with dingo.  No evidence supplied, but Kaleski, himself, and later ACD breeders remark on viciousness in dingo crosses. NoreenClark (talk) 02:52, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dingo ancestry should be included 

message: There's several issues with the article that lead me to believe it wouldn't pass a featured article review - the use of self-published sources for many content claims, including life expectancy; and some guidebook/non-breed specific content on grooming.
I've updated the life expectancy to use data from a peer reviewed and independent study published this year, so that is no longer an issue. Traumnovelle (talk) 04:24, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article issues 

message: Currently under the 'As pets' heading is content that goes against the WP:NOTGUIDEBOOK policy, specifically the grooming section and the training section. In addition the behaviour listed as natural Australian Cattle Dog behaviour is just generic dog behaviour that isn't breed specific. 
I'm in favour of changing the two sections so they look like this:
Grooming
Known as a "wash and wear" dog, the Australian Cattle Dog is not a year-round shedder but blows its coat once a year (twice in the case of intact females).Beauchamp (1997), pp. 67, 77
Training
Like other working breeds, the Australian Cattle Dog is intelligent and responsive; both of these traits can be an advantage in training where a structured, varied program is used, but can lead to unwanted outcomes if training is not consistent, or is repetitive and boring for the dog.Schwartz (2009), pp. 78–102 The Australian Cattle Dog is biddable, and responds well to training.Stockman (2002), p. 102
Traumnovelle (talk) 01:50, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[WP:NOTGUIDEBOOK]] content