Talk:2002 Bali bombings

message: Besides POV issues 'Bali terrorist bombing' appears to be a minority usage. 'Bali bombing' is much more common, so I suggest this article should be moved to 2002 Bali bombing. Any other ideas? --mav 04:48, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page name 

message: Does anyone else besides me wonder if it's not just coincidence that the bombing happened 1 year, 1 month and 1 day after 9/11? --Angr/ 3 July 2005 14:02 (UTC)
::Not a coincidence.  The Madrid train bombings took place 911 days after 9/11.  Kransky 14:28, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Timing 

message: The total dead in the table adds up to 206, but the "total" given is 202. I don't know what to do about it, but I may as well point it out. Andjam 02:58, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Death total 

message: There is a widely held conspiracy theory that the weapon used in the 2002 Bali Bombing was a mini nuclear device.
The general theory is that the confined space of the sewage system underneath the bar, where the device was placed, would not have been large enough to accommodate the necessary amount of conventional explosive required to produce the blast. Ergo the explosive must have been unconventional and possibly nuclear.
: As with most conspiracy theories, that comment is not based on fact. The first smaller bomb detonated in Paddies Bar was carried in a back pack by a suicide bomber.  Witnesses saw this.  The second much larger bomb was carried in a van parked outside the Sari in the narrow Jalan Legian (street). Anyone with even the slightest knowledge knows this and there are countless witnesses and forensic evidence. --Merbabu 11:32, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I should point out that personally I think that this is a load of bollocks--Fergie 11:25, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

text: I found one of sites long ago, and whent here to see something about it, but to my surprice, i found nothing. I added a minimal amount of text to the bottom of the article regarding this. --Striver 11:19, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: hmm, i don't want to offend anyone, but i moved the nuke section to accompany Abu Bakar's mention of a US plot. it does not deserve a whole full section of its own. Actually, personally i would rather see the whole nuke thing removed. Cheers.--Merbabu 11:32, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure, i have no problem with that, only as long as its somewhere. Why delete it? Somebody just did, i dont get why there is a need to delete this specific "conspiracy theory". --Striver 11:45, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Personally, i think they are garbage, but i realise that others may feel differently. I didn't delete cos i didn't want to offend. I think we both agree though that they don't need much too much attention though. Cheers.  --Merbabu 11:49, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, we do have conpiracy theories for everything else, and they are more or less the same in nature, i feel i did'nt get a answer on why this particular one should be deleted. --Striver 12:01, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I am not sure what you mean. The article makes mention of these conspiracy theories. They are not even conspiracy theories in the convetional manner, they are simply the claims of those known and self-identified Islamists trying to divert attention from their deeds - they are hardly credible sources. It's a wonder no-one has actually removed it. Have you read the articles? They use very flimsy evidence, some that is completely laughable. I know the sites well, have been to the clubs (pre-2002), spoken to a number of witnesses and am familiar with the expert-written reports. I don't need the garbage of half-wits that this article refers to.  Is that the answer you want? --Merbabu 09:22, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Yawn -  This theory is not worthy of mention.  It never was a credible explanation, and has since proved to be rubbish.  That it is mentioned on a handful of (*ahem*) underground websites does not lend it any more weight. Removing section. Beeromatic 14:37, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Yes, this theory is total crap. If a nuclear weapon is detonated at ground or below ground level there would have been huge amounts of radiation, making the ground unlivable. Air burst nuclear weapons, such as those used in the attacks on Japan, for some reason do not have this same effect. However, even with airburst detonations, radiation is still a very serious risk, almost half of the deaths related to the Nagasaki or Hiroshima occured well after the blasts (cancer related illnesses, birth defects etc). As stated above, there has been no increase radiation related illnesses from survivors or from those living in the area. --Theinnerexits 06:38, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mini Nuke 

message: The 2005 Bali Bombings article, which covered a similar although much less severe attack, is much better and informative.
:Yes, it is very good in comparison. I'd like to clean it up but have too many other wiki priorities at the moment. By the way, don't forget to sign your comment.  It's the button above this text box with the squiggly signature label (3rd button from the right for me). Press once and you get this: --Merbabu 11:48, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  needs a cleanup 

message: Reading over this article I noted several major differences in comparison with a recent show I watched on it, which seemed to be very in-depth. Some differences include:
1) there were three bombs, but for some reason this is not mentioned in this article until after the other two, which exploded later.
2) the "first" bomb mentioned here was a vest, not a backpack.
3) the third bomb was detonated by an operator in the van, not by "remote control".
I'm not saying the show was "correct", but it did seem to have been well researched, and other shows in the series I have watched seem to be equally high quality. Should I jump in?
Maury 12:07, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Major differences between this and a recent documentary 

message: There seem to be some similarities between this article and this AFP page, for example:
"a bomb hidden in a backpack ripped through Paddy's Bar. The device ... killed the backpack owner, likely a suicide operative ... a second much more powerful car bomb of close to 1,000 kg, concealed in a white Mitsubishi van was detonated by remote control in front of the Sari Club. Windows throughout the town were blown out. The explosion left a one meter deep crater"
(both articles use the American English spelling "meter") and
"a third bomb detonated in the street in front of the American consulate in Bali. This bomb caused a slight injury to one person, and only modest damage. It was packed with excrement for maximum moral damage."
seem to be very similar in both pages. There may be other examples as well.
What should be done? Andjam 15:02, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Based on the quotes you posted there i see no similarlities. Could you clarify your point, please? In the mean time, I suggest nothing "should be done". --Merbabu 16:06, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've bolded the bits that are the same, character for character, with the AFP page. Andjam 02:16, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: lol - I thought you were trying to compare the two passages above - thus i thought you were nuts. But now i see. hmmm, i know there are some wikinazi's who want to freeze an article until it is resolved. I'd suggest re-writing the offending sections. Some of the factual stuff can be found anywhere and is common knowledge to people familiar with the event, particularly those with first-hand knowledge (including myself). THis stuff i suggest doesn't need to be referenced to this article.  Others, such as the reference to excrement i never heard except here, thus i do suggest a specific reference to the AFP page. --Merbabu 02:33, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: UPDATE: I think i may have removed most (all?) of the offending sections. OK, i admit parts i paraphrased but i think this is more than appropriate as the same information is widely avaible from other sources - perhaps the final step is to include references to these other items. --Merbabu 04:36, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyright issues? 

message: Merbabu, per [] the introduction is lacking.  It provides little of an overview beyond the date, location, and casualty count.  IMO it should include perpetrators or suspects, details of the bombing, aftermath & outcome.  I will restore much of this that you removed.  It wasn't a cut/paste job as you suggest in your edit summary - I tried to make the text relevant to the introduction.  Kaisershatner 13:25, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As stated before, i do agree that the Lead should be longer - it is now thanks to your efforts - but I am not sure that it doesn't go into too much detail, ie naming individual perpetrators, which is all repeated, anyway later. I will have a look and see what can be done, as you suggest in line with WP:LEAD --Merbabu 01:59, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Introduction

message: As you think that sounds stupid,Merbabu, i think i have to explain you. Bashir believes that Indonesian bombers was involved, but CIA knew this  in advance, and then, place more powerful bombs (the "mini-nuke" bombs) to maximize the effect, and justify its claim that Indonesia is a "sarang teroris". In fact, the Indonesian bombers confessed that they bombed using potassium chlorate, and I read this material couldnt have caused such a great explosion which killed 202 deaths and destroyed building several blocks away. And that also explains why US consular building wasn't much affected, though it was one of three location of the bomb-blasts. Nielswik(talk) 14:55, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The bombers have also confirmed all the clear evidence that the Paddies bomb was a backpack bomb, and that the second Sari Club bomb was in a van. They found bits of the truck, and the prosecutors built a replica of the bomb, which the bombers gladly described on freely transmitted TV. I don't why people are so quick to believe whacky conspiracies. Furthermore, i don't believe accepting the truth is any way a slur on Islam, Muslims or Indonesians - who like any group of people are overwhemingling decent. Of course, the question of whether ABB was involved is a completely seperate question, and I admit, is less clear than the question of what sort of bombs were involved. regards --Merbabu 23:53, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Merbabu: as you are able to understand indonesian (are you too, OldRoy?) here is two article (in Indonesian) "Bali Bombs, Micronuclear?" by an ISTECS (Institute for Science and Technology Studies) scientist and this "Bali Bombs was not C4 but it was a micronuclear!" in detik.com, the biggest web-based Indonesian news service. I am figuring out how to find English-language source of this --Nielswik(talk) 09:40, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: this is an english article but it is not a RS, i think. --Nielswik(talk) 09:47, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bashir, CIA, Bali Bombing Conspiracy 

message: I have read newspaper reports of Abu bakar Bashir been declared innocent of any wrongdoing. Hence I recommend that the pertinent sections be edited. --ToyotaPanasonic 11:41, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  BASHIR DECLARED INNOCENT 

message: I just added a section on the 2005 movie about the Bombings (Long Road to Heaven), but it appears to be too long.  I suggest we split the page into two seperate articles. Any ideas? Crisco 1492 10:26, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I split it already. see Long Road to Heaven Merbabu 11:05, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks Merbabu. I just tidied up the ending of the article, since (menurut saya) the film should be mentioned in the article (although greatly reduced from what it had been.) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Crisco 1492 (talk • contribs) 09:45, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Split

message: This  story from the BBC is interesting. Ali Ghufron has been preaching from jail to militants in Poso in Sulawesi and then there has been more violence. I think this should be in this article but i could not find anywhere it seemed to fit. Any thoughts?Hypnosadist 17:41, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Preaching from jail

message: PutuNix 12:06, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why was the link to my website removed? 

message: Perhaps someone can put up a grid putting up a list of suspects and their status to be put up.
--Hourick 23:05, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suspect listings and Status 

message: Just quickly ran through the article and made the date-style consistant. All are now written 12 October, 2002 as Wiki policy suggests as per subject matter. Cheers, Rothery 04:24, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Dates fixed

message: maybe this should also be grouped with Wikiproject australia, as it involve a lot of australian. w_tanoto (talk) 13:24, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikiproject Australia? 

message: I've deleted a section related to the documentary Fool Me Twice.  The film deals with several conspiracy theories relating to the 2002 Bali Bombings that do not warrant their own section in this article.
Glebesam (talk) 05:35, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I have not seen the film, but assuming it "documents Jakarta Post senior editor, Robert S. Finnegan's investigation, US State department translator's admission of CIA efforts to secretly render Abu Bakar Bashir prior to the bombings and pre-bombing Australian intelligence warnings", can we find reliable sources that discuss these theories? The film is not sufficient. Somno (talk) 05:43, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

text: I agree.  If reliable sources can be found then I think a small section of this article could deal with these conspiracy theories.  Until such a time though I'm strongly of the opinion that the reference to the film should be deleted.sc (talk) 13:37, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

text: Hi all. I agree with Glebesam/sc - the article is about much more than conspiracy theories, and we need to be careful we do not give these theories undue weight. They are alternative theories, but conspiracy theories is a more appropriate title due to the nature of the theories. Any mention of conspiracy theories must be supported by a reliable source, and Fool Me Twice is not a reliable source. If we brainstorm some possible reliable sources here, perhaps we can create a draft section to enter into the article? Japan1000, your input here would be very valuable. Do you have access to some sources we could use? Somno (talk) 02:18, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Common sense would suggest that the forensic resources of two police forces and a lengthy, transparent court procedure would produce a more credible version of events than an expat  cherrypicking for facts that suits a particular story.  Finnegan's work is not an "investigation".  Kransky (talk) 13:12, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

text: Japan1000, please read the article on conspiracy theories. It is a neutral term referring to the type of theory. If Fool Me Twice is the only source for these claims, then the claims do not belong in an encyclopedia, which requires verifiable information from reliable sources. Remember, Wikipedia is about verifiability, not "truth". Somno (talk) 04:58, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: 'Fool me twice' reference

message: Warning to both editors with messages above - please do not revert again without considering that an admin might want to sanction either of you for continued reversions/additions - please take care! SatuSuro 08:15, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree; please discuss this here rather than revert each other. Please also note that the relevant Wikipedia policies are WP:NPOV and WP:UNDUE. Nick-D (talk) 11:12, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Warning

message: VERY dissapointing to read this article and find NO mention of the memorial in 'Peryman Place' at North Cronulla Beach(Australia). SEVEN Sutherland Shire residents died 
ALL young women no older than ≈32 years. SHAME Wikipedia! This sort of omission is almost UNFORGIVEABLE!. Sorry, I got a bit pissed off at this error. 
Relevant info. from Sutherland Council Website here -   
Extracts of appropriate text:
===="Memorial for Shire victims of Bali bombings"====
"Of the 88 Australians who died in the blast, seven lived in Sutherland Shire. They were: Charmaine Whitton, Jodi Wallace, Jodie O'Shea, Michelle Dunlop, Renae Anderson, Simone Hanley, and Francoise Dahan.(Likely inappropriate to put names in article)
The memorial
On Sunday 28 September 2003, around 500 people attended a dedication ceremony for a memorial to these seven women.
Sutherland Shire Council commissioned sculptor Chris Bennetts and Ishi Buki Sandstone Sculpture to design a memorial...
Their work, called "The Seed", is a design derived from the seed and foliage of the Banksia robur, a beautiful native plant indigenous to Sutherland Shire. The seed was chosen as it signifies renewal, resilience and regeneration. This pink sandstone sculpture is the centrepiece of the memorial. It is set in a black granite pond and located not far from North Cronulla Beach which was frequented by many of the seven victims and their families.
The plaques
Two stainless steel plaques are set into the black granite surrounding the pond. The text on the plaques reads:
Memorial plaque
"Shortly before midnight on Saturday 12 October 2002, a devastating terrorist attack was triggered at the beachside town of Kuta on the Indonesian island of Bali."
Poem plaque
The second plaque is a poem written by the families of these seven women. This plaque also carries photos of the seven women.
===PHOTO===
A photo of the memorial is needed, The link above has some photos. Remember they need to be 'released' or public domain for 'us' to use in Wikipedia. I'll follow this up if someone doesn't beat me to it. --220.101.28.25 (talk) 11:41, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The Coogee memorial has a photo here  --203.63.130.37 (talk) 05:58, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  2002 Bali Bombing Memorial in Sutherland Shire 

message: A photo of the memorial is needed, The link above has some photos. Remember they need to be 'released' or public domain for 'us' to use in Wikipedia. I'll follow this up if someone doesn't beat me to it. --220.101.28.25 (talk) 11:41, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The Coogee memorial has a photo here  --203.63.130.37 (talk) 05:58, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: PHOTO

message: "A memorial wall with the names of all 44 NSW residents killed in the 2002 Bali bomb blasts will be built at a Sydney beach as a permanent reminder of the tragedy." SBS World News 12 October 2009', 02:03:25 PM, Source: AAP 
Australia 
Probably best to leave entering information about this until it actually built. 
--220.101.28.25 (talk) 12:38, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Memorial wall to honour Bali bomb victims (NSW) 

message: Please fix.  202 <> 152 + 38. Tuntable (talk) 03:36, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixing it right now and including a ref with the final death toll.  Check back in a few minutes.  Millahnna (mouse)talk 01:39, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Casualty numbers do not addup 

message: During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
* http://www.defence.gov.au/dpe/dhs/infocentre/publications/journals/NoIDs/adfhealth_sep03/ADFHealth_4_2_50-55.html
** In 2002 Bali bombings on 2011-05-25 07:18:06, 404 Not Found
** In 2002 Bali bombings on 2011-06-10 08:55:04, 404 Not Found
--JeffGBot (talk) 08:55, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 

message: During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
* http://www.usindo.org/publications/reports/pdf/WarOnTerror.pdf
** In 2002 Bali bombings on 2011-05-25 07:18:06, 404 Not Found
** In 2002 Bali bombings on 2011-06-10 08:55:14, 404 Not Found
--JeffGBot (talk) 08:55, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 2 

message: During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
* http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=3274889
** In 2002 Bali bombings on 2011-05-25 07:18:06, 404 Not Found
** In 2002 Bali bombings on 2011-06-10 08:55:39, 404 Not Found
--JeffGBot (talk) 08:55, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 3 

message: During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
* http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/news/international/Execution_of_Bali_bombers_sparks_clashes.html?siteSect=143&sid=9948123&cKey=1226210855000&ty=ti
** In 2002 Bali bombings on 2011-05-25 07:18:06, 404 Not Found
** In 2002 Bali bombings on 2011-06-10 08:55:40, 404 Not Found
--JeffGBot (talk) 08:55, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 4 

message: During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
* http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,,24575384-5001028,00.html
** In 2002 Bali bombings on 2011-05-25 07:18:07, 404 Not Found
** In 2002 Bali bombings on 2011-06-10 08:55:48, 404 Not Found
--JeffGBot (talk) 08:56, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 5 

message: During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
* http://abc.net.au/news/indepth/bali/default.htm
** In 2002 Bali bombings on 2011-05-25 07:18:06, 404 Not Found
** In 2002 Bali bombings on 2011-06-10 08:56:09, 404 Not Found
--JeffGBot (talk) 08:56, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 6 

message: On the lead section the number of people injured is 240. In the infobox, the number is given as 209. Which (if any) is correct? Shuipzv3 (talk) 11:46, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Casualties number 

message: During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
* http://politifi.com/news/Bali-bomber-mastermind-Dulmatin-killed-in-shootout-263287.html
** In 2002 Bali bombings on 2011-06-10 08:55:04, 404 Not Found
** In 2002 Bali bombings on 2011-06-11 04:16:56, 404 Not Found
** In 2002 Bali bombings on 2011-06-25 14:49:34, 404 Not Found
--JeffGBot (talk) 14:49, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead link 7 

message: Does anyone know that name of the suicide bomber. Thanks, 114.77.180.7 (talk) 23:08, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suicide bomber 

message: As someone already mentioned, it says 240 in the start of the text but 209 in the statistics on the side when it comes to injured, but not just that, it also says that 5 Swedish people died in the text while the statistics over nationalities it says that 6 Swedes died in the attack. Which are the correct numbers?
According to an old article from a Swedish newspaper's website, it should be 6 Swedes. 
I will change the place which says 5 to 6.   — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.111.139.200 (talk) 15:25, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Numbers 

message: What is the evidence that al-Qaeda was involved in these bombings, as the info box indicates? The only reference to al-Qaeda made in this article is that the funding may have come from al-Qaeda, that the Americans blamed al-Qaeda and that as of four days after the attack the police hadn't found any evidence of connection to al-Qaeda. If the article states that the attacks were carried out by al-Qaeda then there should be more substantial information about this connection.--67.250.35.250 (talk) 06:54, 4 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point. I read the source for the reference to the Bin Laden recording, which explicitly states that the recording did not claim responsibility. I have removed the reference from the article until someone can provide reliable substantiation for this suggestion. hamiltonstone (talk) 11:17, 4 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  al-Qaeda? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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I have just modified one external link on 2002 Bali bombings. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141018114755/http://www.rulit.net/books/the-black-banners-read-249656-95.html to http://www.rulit.net/books/the-black-banners-read-249656-95.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 03:12, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: An anonymous IP,  excised a passage today.  They also made a huge and unjustifiable excision from the article on Hambali.  I reverted their vandalism to the Hambali article, and noticed they made a questionable edit to this article, which I also reverted.  I don't think an explicit explanation is required for an IP whose other two edits were nonsense.
Another IP,  repeated the excision, with the edit summary "Anonymous users aren't automatically wrong. Please provide a rationale for your revision."  This IP is from a range used by a very persistent wikistalker, with terrible anger management issues.  I angered them with some perfectly reasonable questions and comments, almost a year ago.
They acknowledged being a long term IP contributor.  They established a named ID, just to wikistalk me.  That named ID was indefinitely blocked.  After which they have been evading their indefinite block using anonymous IP addresses.  That alone is vandalism.  Geo Swan (talk) 01:38, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandal, evading an indefinite block through sockpuppetry.  See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Renamed_user_49274c4c204245204241434b]] 

message: That section is out of proportion to the article and needs to be cut right back, or removed and replaced with a link to the McCartney article. Perhaps he, and all notable victims and survivors, could be in  the "See also"  section. Adpete (talk) 12:26, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I have cut it from 5 paragraphs to 2, but even that might be a bit long. Adpete (talk) 05:31, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jason McCartney