Talk:Purdah

message: Article mentions two specific usages relating to elections and budgets. The Bank of England's Monetary Policy Committee also use the term to relate to a period of time before and after each Interest rate decision in which commitee members avoid giving speeches and speaking to the news media or other interests, on or off the record, about monetary and fiscal policy and the conjuncture, or anything else which could be considered relevant to their interest rate decisions or the forecast. .
Perhaps this (and the other mentioned related usages in English) could be put in another disambiguated article? Are there other equivalent usages outside the UK?
--62.173.111.114 14:22, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: At the very least this needs a disambiguation page; Purdah is also used by UK civil servants to refer to the period between the dissolution of parliament and the general election; i.e. when MPs cease to exist.157.203.42.175 (talk) 11:11, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other meanings - UK (esp. financial/political?) 

message: There is no reason to merge Purdah with Hijab.  The words have different meanings and histories as the article The Hijab and I by C.M. Naim, Emeritus Professor of Urdu and South Asian Languages and Civilizations at the University of Chicago, makes clear.  Here is an extended quote from the article: 
Fowler&fowler«Talk» 14:31, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Purdah and Hijab

message: Purdah is in Ordou while Hijab is in Arabic, both words mean 'barrier' to a non-Mahram onlooker - a screen whether by a covering or a screen or a wall. Also the source is not customary but Islamic revelation to be precise it did not exist before the revelation of Ayat 59 in Suraat Ahzaab [Q;33:59]at return from Battle of Khaybar in 6H 628CE.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.181.167.165 (talk) 16:55, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: There is no difference between 'Purdah' & 'Hijab'

message: I have moved the Hindi script from the Other meanings section to the introduction of the article for two reasons: [a] Purdah is practiced in India (see references kindly provided by Fowler&fowler) [b] Purdah is the standard Hindi word for curtain. In addition, I have made the Perso-Arabic script more readable. Thanks, AnupamTalk 06:00, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moved scripts to top 

message: I'm a bit concerned by the phrase "A woman's withdrawal into purdah restricts her personal, social and economic activities outside her home."
I think it's a generalisation - is the author able to quote published papers that indicate the sentence is fact?
Crewekitty 15:51, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I too feel it is a generalized statement, That phrase doesnt even has a reference. Proper meaning should be found and written. HotWick (talk) 11:17, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Improper Phrase 

message: I am not a Muslim but it was once explained to me by a Muslim that the rational was that, such is human nature that if the female form is exposed it will present a sexual stimulation or temptation to men, and this sexual dynamic wil impact negatively upon inter-sexual relationships and society in general. 
There are radical feminists in the West that say not so disimilar things, suggesting that men treat women as sexual objects. These same radical feminists however (I presume) believe that it is possible to overcome such effects by education. Islamic thinking suggests that hardware, in the form of clothing, is needed. 
At the same time again, Christians tend to believe, and Western societies tend to have laws against, complete nudity for the same sorts of reasons that Musilims recommend Purdah.
Who is right? Where does one draw the line? --Timtak (talk) 10:12, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This article does not present the case for Islam. There are uneducated anglophones on the Internet presenting Purdha simply as "ignorant" repression, without understanding the case for Purdah. If they only read this article then they would be none the wiser. --Timtak (talk) 10:12, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Why no explication of the rationale behind Purdah?

message: This is in regards to a question at the head of this discussion page:
"Are Islamic prostitutes commonly clothed in burqas or hot pants or both? Do they have brothels, queens (house mothers), or pimps? What is the prostitution industry like in islamic countries? Yes, prostitution is everywhere, so the 'it doesn't happen here' answer is probably not helpful. I'm mostly interested in (for this article) the intersection of purdah and prostitution."
Use of the term "Islamic prostitute" doesn't make sense. It's an oxymoron at best. Islam specifically prohibits prostitution. It is considered a major sin. That isn't to say that prostitution doesn't exist in Muslim countries, but the prostitutes themselves can't be considered Muslim.
Also, with the comment "burqas or hot pants or both", I detect a tinge of sarcasm. Enaam (talk) 14:11, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Islamic Prostitute

message: An early 20th century photograph by Sergey Prokudin-Gorsky, of a Sart woman in purdah in Samarkand, Uzbekistan is available online from the Library of Congress.  The photograph:
:http://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/prk2000001462/ 
is part of a series of photographs that are in the public domain:
:commons:Template:PD-RusEmpire
Such photographs are already part of Wikipedia here:
:Sergey Prokudin-Gorsky#Gallery
and are in Commons, within the following category:
:commons:Category:Sergey_Prokudin-Gorsky
72.244.203.208 (talk) 03:06, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photograph by Sergey Prokudin-Gorsky available from LOC 

message: I would like to revise this page on purdah. Currently, the page desperately needs improvement: the article is flagged for needing “additional citations for verification”. It is very short,  lacking in in detail, credible sources, and citations. Right now the definition of purdah relies on  an Eurocentric Greco-Roman historian’s description. The tone of the article lacks credibility. Its assertions are overly simplistic and makes claims with bare-boned citation. The article does not address the historical, religious, or cultural origins, or the influence of class, nationality, economic shifts, Islamization of the state, or women’s personal choices-- all sub-topics I plan to add to the article. Currently the article is poorly organized.  In addition, the article uses a biased, Western-centric point of view. In all, this page is currently biased, unsystematic, unorganized, and lacks in research.
Purdah is a very important topic that warrants a well-written article. The purdah has wide-ranging ramifications for millions of women around the world. Purdah takes forms in women’s dress, behavior and institutional rights in terms of access to resources and mobility. Given the multitude of perspectives (sociological, human rights, economic, political, historical, religious, gender rights, etc) a neutral and comprehensive exploration of this topic is very much needed to present an unbiased picture for this tradition.  I hope to improve upon it by increasing the thoroughness in research, comprehensiveness in content and analysis, clear organization, neutral tone of voice, number of citations from credible sources (academic articles from journals on Asian history, women's studies, sociology, anthropology, etc), inclusion of appropriate pictures, and the degree to which it is imbedded within the Wikipedia universe by linking to other relevant pages.
I'd love to hear any suggestions and comments you might have! 
Jennyxwen (talk) 20:23, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey Jenny, I am excited that you are working on this page, I think there are a lot of misunderstanding and contention around this issue. I signed up to be a reviewer for this article so let me know if you have any specific things in need of review. What I would love to see more of is the sub-section titled Purdah as empowerment. While a lot of people, specifically Muslim women themselves, feel that purdah is oppressive and seek to challenge it, there are also a substantial amount of Muslim women who write on this issue and defended their rationale for the restrictions that they willingly follow. I took a course with Dr. David Cook from the religious studies department, he knows a lot about these issues and he can refer you to articles/authors on this issue as well, so I recommend sending an email his way to see if he might be any help. Good luck and I look forward to reviewing your article!
Kayceeho (talk) 20:08, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revising the Purdah Article

message: Here are some specific comments:
Purdah is primarily practiced in majority-Muslim countries and Hindu communities in South Asia ( India, Pakistan, Bangladesh ) . [3] It varies broadly according to religions, region, nationality, cultures, and socioeconomic classes . [4] . [5] <-- there's that extra period. I fixed this one for you, except that it seems that throughout the entire article there's a space between the last word of the sentence and the period, and then there's another space after the period, before the citation begins. I believe that the citation should be immediately right after the period?
The location of the section titled Conduct and seclusion seems random, it seems to belong to rationale or the overview or wherever else the purposes of purdah are explained.
For all section/sub-section titles, unless it is a proper noun, all words besides the first word should not be capitalized.
Is 'governmental policies on purdah' not part of 'influences on purdah'? I feel that maybe it should be a sub-section of influences on purdah, unless there's a difference between those two so you might want to rename influences on purdah to something else?
"For Muslim South Asian diaspora living in secular non-Muslim communities" what do you mean for Muslim South Asian diaspora? As in Muslim South Asian emigrants, or maybe 'for people of the Muslim South Asian diaspora'?
Here is my general feedback:
Consider adding more internal links, terms like South Asia and Middle East all have wikipedia links, and although not always necessary since not all terms need extensive definition, I personally like it when I can click around links because sometimes I am unsure what ubiquitous terms like the 'Middle East' exactly means. The organization of the article flows logically. For images, you can add a chart/different pictures of the different veilings, BBC has great explanations and pictures of four of the general categories here http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/05/europe_muslim_veils/html/1.stm
I think I read somewhere about certain low socioeconomic women whose families want her to keep purdah but she clearly needs to get formal employment outside the home to make a living, I think that adds on to how some other low socioeconomic women have the freedom to disregard purdah in pursuit of employment and mobility. I would love to read more on how purdah affects women's psychological and physical health, if you do have more information. Also the government policies on purdah and subsequent controversies are pretty notable in my opinion, and it would be great to see more coverage on those issues. I would also like to see more discussed on purdah as it relates to non-Muslim societies. I believe there are non-Muslim Indians, for example, who practice purdah? And according to the map, it seems that the hijab is quite common in many African countries. It would be interesting to find out more about purdah contextualized in that region of the world, although the use of hijab does not automatically necessitate purdah. 
Kayceeho (talk) 04:40, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Peer Review Feedback

message: Thank you for your thoughtful feedback! Based on your comments, here is my to-do list in editing:
*Expand: purdah as empowerment (Email David Cook for authors/articles) 
*Expand: purdah’s effects on women’s physical and psychological health
*Grammar/Convention: Edit spaces in between sentences and citations
*Grammar/Convention: Get rid of capitalization of subsections
*Organization: As you suggested I will move Government Policies on Purdah under “Influences on purdah”. That does make more sense
*Clarification: Muslim South Asian Diaspora
*Other: Add more external links within the article
Here are some clarifications and explanations regarding points you made: 
*Organization: the reason I wanted to include “conduct and seclusion” as its own section right after “Dress” was because I wanted to emphasize the diversity of the issue but also how they are multiple, equally important facets of the same term and concept
*Expand: Controversies on gov’t policies on purdah. The reason I didn’t go into it more was because in the countries that had laws, policies, and controversies, they were largely not in South Asia, and therefore called “hijab”. These controversies are well-covered in the Hijab article and “Hijab by Country” article I linked in the “see-also”
*Expand: I do discuss non-Muslim communities use of purdah under “Adoption and Spreading” and also how the practices differ by religion in “Conduct and Seclusion”
*Expand: Hijab is common in African countries, but existing articles such as “Hijab by country” does an excellent job of explaining, which I link to. Another reason is because “purdah” is primarily used to describe the practice in South Asia. 
*Other: I only used images in the Wikipedia commons for copyright reasons. But thanks for the link to the images!
Jennyxwen (talk) 04:57, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Response to Peer Review Feedback

message: First of all, sorry this feedback is late! Overall, great job expanding this article. From reading previous comments on this talk page I gather that it has been greatly improved. I think as long as it's made clear that Purdah is used specifically when referring to the institution in Southeast Asia, it should be fine that the institution is covered in the Hijab by country article for all countries outside Southeast Asia. You did a great job maintaining neutrality throughout your contribution. I would, however add to your list of "expansions" the four subsections under "Rationale". The descriptions are quite vage and only one or two sentences long. If you were to expand them it might provide readers with a more comprehensive perspective when looking at later sections such as policies and influences on Purdah and rationale for Purdah. I'd also recommend perhaps further expanding on the Islamization subsection. You do point out that it does have pre-Islamic roots, obviously Islamization has had significant effects on practice and institutions that influence that practice. Maybe talk a bit more about specifically religious influences here, as well as current states of the institution around Southeast Asia today in the context of religious practices. Overall though, a really interesting read and a well-written article!
Reillysolis (talk) 04:12, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Feedback 

message: Saying that purdah is "observed by women" makes it sound like something totally voluntary and optional that women choose on their own, rather than something that is imposed on them by their culture and enforced by law. 96.231.8.232 (talk) 14:16, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point.  I've reworded it.  We don't know that it is entirely involuntary either.  Fowler&fowler«Talk» 14:50, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: "observed by women"

message: an indian textbook on drama, natyashastra shows evidences of gender segregation, females and males were admitted through separate entrances in an indian theatre The Making of Theatre History, Paul Kuritz. 196.246.231.172 (talk) 15:06, 29 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  a referece can be added from natyashastra 

message: Purdah was imposed on Hindus by the Mughals. It does not have a pre-Islamic history in India. (JayPlaysStuff | talk to me | What I've been up to) 17:12, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: As one proof of this - some orthodox rural women in Tamil Nadu still go topless. I have seen them in the market lanes and also working topless in road construction. Topless female figures are ubiquitous in South Indian temples. A Hindu wrote the Kama sutra, and sexual poses are found on outer temple wall in Khajuraho. Clearly Hindus did not have any hang-ups about the human body, and some still do not. Purdah as an institution clearly came from outside. Sooku (talk) 04:13, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Purdah is not a Hindu tradition