Talk:Talysh people

message: I noted some people try to change the estimate of the Talysh numbers.  The fact is that the statistics of the republic of Azarbaijan is not reliable and until correct numbers are given, one can not be sure about the number of Talysh speakers.  If someone wants to provide such a government statistic, it must be mentioned that the estimate is biased.  
--Ali doostzadeh 22:25, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How do you know that it is biased? Such statements need to be well sourced, otherwise they cannot be included to the article. The figures from ethnologue and others are not that reliable, because it’s not known how they obtained them. Grandmaster 12:57, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  It is a well known fact that the republic of Azerbaijan plays ethnic politics and has ethnic problems.  One of them being Karabagh problem.  Plus at one time they use to say there did not exist any Talysh in the republic and they have been assimilated into Azaris.  Furthermore there is a strong assimilation policy against Talysh.  I think all statistics should be mentioned.  The two sources I brought are unbiased relative to a pan-turkist government source. --Ali doostzadeh 18:31, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Since when Azerbaijani government is pan-Turkist? I hope you know the meaning of the word pan-Turkist, because it is not appropriate in this context. And what Karabakh has to do with it? At least Azerbaijani government does not make a secret of the number of various ethnicities in the country, while the number of Azerbaijani people in Iran is a top secret and is not published by Iranian government. It is a fact that Iranian people are quick to assimilate with Azerbaijanis, while for example Dagestani people are not. The figures of Ethnologue are not realistic, for example, according to them the speakers of Persian and Azerbaijani languages in Iran are estimated as 36% and 37%. I don’t know whether that true or not, since Iranian government prefers not to disclose the figures, but even if we assume that the whole population of the Talysh region are Talysh speakers, which is not true, you still don’t have 800 000 Talyshi speakers. So I suggest to include all the available figures, but without any unsourced comments, and let the reader judge. Grandmaster 19:17, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Actually the Iranian government has published two sources.  One in 1335 (now is 1385) and one in 1370 (15 years ago).  Amongst others which i am not aware of.  In the 1335 every village was counted and its language was given.  My point is that the various estimates should be mentioned and the judgment about its accuracy should be up to the reader.  80,000 is actually ridicolous from my point of view considering that there at least 1000+ Talysh villages (assuming 80 person each lives in one of them) and there is a lot of Talysh in Massali, Jalil-Abad, Lenkoran, Lerik, and Astara.  Also the Azarbaijan government is pan-turkist in my opinion and  has close ties with Turkey (which is also pan-turkist) and one of its founders was a  Pan-turkist Mohammad Amin Rasulzadeh who was also a pan-turkist.  As well as pan-turkist trends in the government, for example that of AbulFazl Elcibey and the Musavat party.  Also Talysh nationalistic figure is 1.5 million.  The thesis I brought was not biased.  Also I doubt Talysh are happy to lose 2000-3000 years of history and become "Turks" whose culture was made by the USSR.  But that is another story which there is no need to delve into.  I think the multiple sources should be mentioned.  For example I found one in this site: http://www.joshuaproject.net/countries.php.  I find the Azerbaijani government as well as Talysh nationalist sources are biased.  They are both political organiztions.  Ethnologue could also be semi-political since it is a Christian missionary site and I did not say it  has no deficiencies.  They even do not know that Nuristani is a third branch of Indo-Iranian.  But it should be quoted as so should be: http://www.joshuaproject.net/countries.php  If you have a source that says there is one talysh in the republic, just quote it also.  --Ali doostzadeh 21:48, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Rasulzade and Elchibey may have been adherents of pan-Turkist ideology, but the current government is not. And not all the villages in Talysh region speak Talyshi. But anyway, we can mention figures from any authoritative sources whatever they are, but this of course applies not only to this article. Grandmaster 07:47, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

text:  Most articles quote various sources from ethnologue to CIA factbook to Britannica and etc.  As per Pan-turkism in the Azarbaijani republic, I believe it is ingrained in the educational system: http://www.muslimsonline.com/babri/azerbaijan1.htm  Anyways thats another discussion.  --Ali doostzadeh 07:54, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Talysh Numbers 

message: I have protected article for a week so to help you find a consensus rather than edit war. Please drop me a note if you want me to unprotect it early Alex Bakharev (talk) 09:10, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protected 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Number of Talysh people living in Azerbaijan has been overestimated and misled by someone who have nationalistic attitude. The Wikipedian, called  --HistoryofIran, revert this numbers when I adjust it with reliable and true sources. It is violation of Wikipedia policy of Reliable sources (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources). "Disabled" Sources which shows the number of Talysh people living in Azerbaijan are these:
- https://www.osce.org/documents/ob/2006/08/23087_en.pdf 
Page is not found
- https://web.archive.org/web/20071220145641/http://www.azstat.org/statinfo/demoqraphic/en/007.shtml
You cannot find latest(2009) numbers. Latest numbers of the web-site belongs to 1999. It also shows the number of Talysh people as 76.8 thousand. This source is violation of Wikipedia source policy too ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources#Age_matters)
-https://web.archive.org/web/20150923211119/http://www.cria-online.org/5_4.html
The number of Talysh people is shown in this source as 76.000. However, There has also been mentioned the number of talysh as unproved claims (800.000) of nationalists and unproved armenian scholars. You can write about this on "Demographics" section before overestimating numbers on main section.
-https://books.google.az/books?id=NwvoM-ZFoAgC&pg=PA676&dq=%22their+shi%27a+muslim+religion%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ZqS0VIz4FeTjsASr3oCAAQ&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=%22their%20shi'a%20muslim%20religion%22&f=true
Again, According to the source, Government estimation shows almost 2% of population which is almost 180.000
Across Azerbaijan Republic, latest counting had been held in 2009. So, The number of Talysh people living in Azerbaijan is 112.000, According to governmental overall counting and some other reliable sources:
- https://minorityrights.org/minorities/talysh
- http://www.azerb.com/az-talysh.html?i=1
- https://www.researchgate.net/publication/323642917_Ethnic_minority_policy_of_the_republic_of_Azerbaijan_and_their_right_to_get_education_in_mother_languages
 or 200.000-300.000 was said by https://minorityrights.org/minorities/talysh as an estimated number
SafaviNihad (talk) 19:06, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Overestimated number of Talysh people and awkward sources 

message: Only official resources of countries can be sources.  The official census of the Azerbaijan republic is 112.000 people.  Please remove unofficial theories Leamsezadah (talk) 21:16, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Says who? Where in the guidelines does it say that? --HistoryofIran (talk) 00:15, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Talysh number in Azerbaijan 

message: the only language of tolishing people is tolish not anything else they don't use Persian or any other language Soheilgilan (talk) 17:06, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  talysh language 

message: What have well-known researchers come to this conclusion?
 There are many different answers to this question in the scientific literature.
 Russian researchers V.S.  Legkobitov (1806-1860) considered the Talysh to be a part of the Persians.
The language spoken by the Cadusii is not clear, it is not correct to call them Iranian.  If there is a source that he speaks in Iranian language, please share with me. Zamuel2000m (talk) 11:34, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  The origins of the Talysh people 

message: , could you please explain why you restored the quote from Victor Schnirelmann? This author may be a reliable source on ancient history, but he has very little knowledge on modern history of Azerbaijan. He claims that there was Talysh Mugan republic in 1919 that was defeated by Ottoman troops. This is absolutely wrong. There was no Talysh Mugan republic in 1919, there was Mughan Soviet Republic, which was Russian bolshevik creation, supported mostly by local Russian population, and all of its leaders were ethnic Russians. For example, its political leader was David Chirkin, and military leader was Timofey Ulyantsev-Otradnev, both ethnic Russians. There is a very well researched book on the history of this entity, in Russian:  Also, Russian wikipedia has well written articles about Mughan Soviet Republic  and struggle for power in Mughan region at that time:  Hopefully someone will translate those articles for English Wikipedia, they use a wide variety of sources. In addition, Ottoman troops were not present in Azerbaijan in 1919, because they had to withdraw from the region in accordance with Armistice of Mudros in November 1918. Therefore, the claims in this quote are inaccurate. Grandmaster 09:59, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I already explained it in my edit summary; I did not find your argument convincing. However, this seems more convincing - therefore I have reverted my edit. --HistoryofIran (talk) 11:34, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, thank you. Grandmaster 14:11, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Victor Schnirelmann 

message: Looks like Location section incorrectly filled with information related to the Demographics. I propose to merge information from location to Demographics. Any objection? --Abrvagl (talk) 19:10, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Location —> Demographics 

message: A template should be opened and information should be given about the history of the Talysh people, albeit briefly. Talysh Cadusii (talk) 16:15, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Talysh date template