Talk:Amon Göth

message: I'm not sure about the spelling of the name. Even German sources spell "Goeth", but his daughter is spelled "Göth", so I'll leave this at "Amon Goeth" for now. djmutex 13:04 10 Jul 2003 (UTC)
:Interesting that the last name was changed.  I have always used the proper German pronunciation when writing about Amon Leopold Göth for the last 14 years.  But in English, it is spelled Goeth.  So I assume that this change will remain as is.~Folklore777 08:39 5 April 2011 (UTC)
::this is the ENGLISH language section of wikipedia and english-speakers generally don't use umlauts and don't have ready access to them on their keyboards.  if we rule that all names should be spelled the way the original subjects would have written them, then we'd need to put Stalin under Сталин, Mao Zedong under 毛泽东, and Nehru under नेहरू --but these also don't lend themselves to english language-based search-typing.Cramyourspam (talk) 17:28, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Appears to be an issue from over a year ago.  I don't think anyone is still protesting it. -OberRanks (talk) 20:18, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Göth name changed 

message: The Picture as of 9/24/12 is of Bruno Gesche not Goeth.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.236.234.132 (talk) 14:57, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image is wrong 

message: I've changed the description of the Image:Gothwrifle.jpg to "Amon Göth on the balcony of his house at Plaszow in the summer of 1943" The previous description was "Amon Göth during sniper practice at Plaszow in the summer of 1943" and in the article the shooting practice is mentioned as sniping Jews from the balcony of his house depicted in the movie Schindler's List.
However, Internet Movie Database says that "Amon Goeth did not shoot random prisoners from the balcony of his house. His house still stands, and the location of the camp is still known. The camp is on the other side of a hill, so Goeth could not have seen any prisoners from his balcony. However, Goeth did shoot prisoners at random from the top of the hill, and he did parade around his balcony with a rifle."
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108052/goofs 
Jogers
:Here's an article from the London Times dated January 27, 2005 that states that Goeth did shoot people from his balcony. Also the quote you reference stating otherwise does not appear on the page you have linked.--198.93.113.49 17:35, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: With all due respect it sounds like journalistic license in the article you cite: "Before breakfast he would stride on to the balcony of his villa overlooking Plaszow camp and shoot Jewish workers at random with his hunting rifle. Then he would return to bed to join his mistress — Frau Goeth’s mother.…"—Your post makes it sound like some kind of further research or evidence was uncovered (at least that was how I read it). (If there's one thing I've learned is that you should *not* get historical facts from journalists, who often do only the most cursory background searches before writing an article to meet editorial deadlines and have no personal knowledge of the subject.) Historian932 (talk) 00:57, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Image Describ

message: The English name of the city is Cracow, and the article seems to be in English. (The German name is Krakau.) Just like Warsaw, Moscow, etc., Poland (and not Polska) in English.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.21.159.190 (talk) 08:45, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I was there last year and it was spelled Krakow in my guidebook (and everywhere else in English) Historian932 (talk) 00:46, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Place names

message: From the article:
:although this grim portrayal (where, for shooting practice, he sniped Jews from the balcony of his house) showed only a subset of his crimes.
What were his other crimes? The article points out the Schindler's List fails to deal with them, but the article doesn't describe them either.--198.93.113.49 17:20, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Other crimes

message: We have a user who is removing Amon Goth from the Nazi war criminals category, stating he was never convicted and therefore should not be listed.  Amon Goth was convicted in 1946 of war crimes and crimes against humanity and sentenced to death.  He was executed shortly thereafter.  It is not POV that Goth was a war criminal, it is documented legal fact. -Husnock 13:43, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  You should add that he was "convicted" after a show trial in Communist Poland. So how credible is such a conviction, anyway?! With your logic one also should list those Germans that were executed for murdering Poles for Katyn as "war criminals".
Ich stimme überein. 147.153.251.188Babsi147.153.251.188 22:01, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: War Crimes

message: Goeth's birthdate has been listed as Nov. 12 for over two years now, but this was a swap of the month and day numbers, according to SS records:
The Camp Men, French L. MacLean, 1999,  Schiffer Publishing, Ltd., 
NAME: Göth (Goeth), Ammon
NATIONAL ARCHIVE FILE: A3343 SSO-020A
BIRTHDAY:  11 December 1908
BIRTHPLACE: Vienna, Austria
RANK: SS-Hauptsturmführer
SS NUMBER:  43673
NSDAP NUMBER: 510764
MARITAL STATUS: Married
RELIGION: Catholic
HIGHEST DECORATION:  None Listed
WAFFEN-SS: No
NOTE:  Kommandant at Plaszow; member of Operation Reinhard, Lublin 1942.
EXECUTED:  13 September 1946
CAMP SERVICE: Plaszow. 1943-1944
JamieMcCarthy 15:41, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: See "Name and birthdate issues" below, Jamie.  --  JackofOz (talk) 00:05, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Birthdate

message: I've just watched the Isabelle Clarke's documentary La Traque des Nazis (The hunt for nazis); it includes footage of Amon Göth's execution. Two elements were noticeable:
-He had his arms tied behind his back and couldn't do the nazi salute;
-The execution butched the execution twice by miscalculating the length of the rope. Amon Göth died on the third try.
Following this evidence, I have thus deleted the mention of his performing the nazi salute at his execution. Scotchorama 22:38, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:   Wrong attribution. Goeth's hanging was never filmed. — Poeticbent talk 18:47, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Execution 

message: We call the article "Amon Göth", then start the lead para with: "Amon Leopold Göeth (or Goeth) ..." – with no mention of Göth.  This seems to be a confusion.  The letter –ö- is often written as –oe-, but never as –öe-.  His legal name was Göth, and it's sometimes written as Goeth.  No other versions are correct.  I’ve made the changes.
Re the birthday:  Jamie McCarthy’s post from February 2007 – which seems to have been totally ignored - seems to be on the money.  Other websites also say it was 11 December, not 12 November.  I’ll make that change too.  --  JackofOz (talk) 00:05, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Name and birthdate issues

message: This site: [] has the fiction and real execution of Amon Göth.Agre22 (talk) 14:24, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:   Wrong attribution. Goeth's hanging was never filmed. — Poeticbent talk 18:47, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: A video with his execution

message: The article cites an interview by his former mistress after which she took her own life…I looked online but couldn't find a transcript or link to it…does anyone else have one? (that could be posted, obviously) Historian932 (talk) 01:09, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link to/information on interview given by former mistress 

message: Amon Goth's real execution was brutal and probably slow and painful and maybe that needs to be put in the article. Statesboropow (talk) 19:09, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The only way to have that changed would be to provide a reliable source. JFW | T@lk 23:34, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:   Wrong attribution. Goeth's hanging was never filmed. — Poeticbent talk 18:47, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  his real execution 

message: Before I add the IPA, can anyone confirm whether the ö in Göth is pronounced [øː] (as in Öl) or [œ] (as in göttlich)? Lfh (talk) 14:43, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation 

message: Having seen the film of his execution, it was clear he wasn't "hanged" in the traditional sense, and most likely died not of a result of a broken neck but of suffocation as the result of strangulation. Perhaps the article should be altered to reflect the actual cause of death? Just an idea. 137.183.232.24 (talk) 15:46, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:   Wrong attribution. Goeth's hanging was never filmed. — Poeticbent talk 18:47, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

text: I don't know all the details, but several sources have attributed the widely circulated video of his hanging to actually being the execution of another person.  An official in the German Polish occupation, I'm not sure which one, but it is not Goeth. -OberRanks (talk) 14:45, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Change "Hanging" to "Strangulation"? 

message: For one reason or another, someone felt the need to delete Amon Göth's military photo with no reason given.  That photo has rights on Wiki commons and has it's copyrighted status clearly listed on the profile.  I have an original copy so I was able to replace it.  Please, if there is any misunderstanding or concern, before deciding to just delete the image, please put a reason on the discussion page first. ~ Folklore777 (talk) 04:33, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, I was very astonished that the photo got taken down.  The "delete vote" consisted of the nominator posting the notice, one person commenting, and then the photo deleted without any further discussion.  Clearly seems like a "rush job" to stop others involved in this article from investigating the photo and clarifying its copyright status. -OberRanks (talk) 15:19, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Military Photo

message: I had never heard of this before, I wonder what specific diagnosis he was given by the SS doctor (were there SS psychiatrists?). Also, did the Allies test him for mental illness, and if they did, what were their results? Did they have a policy on executing mentally ill war criminals? (Keep in mind not all war criminals were mentally ill by definition, that is a bogus moralistic judgment in my opinion, Eichmann for example was found sane by his Israeli psychiatrist.) Historian932 (talk) 00:33, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The few source documents I've seen about this indicate he had some kind of a nervous breakdown and was sent to a sanitarium.  Interestingly enough, Himmler did something similar, abandoning his Army Group Command and checking himself into some kind of convalescent home in 1945. -OberRanks (talk) 14:44, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Issue of mental illness 

message: The full paragraph in German from Sachslehner (2008) available in Google Books only as a short snippet reads as follows. "Oskar Schindler ist auch daran Schuld, dass Göth irgendwann in diesem Frühjahr 1943 seine große Liebe Ruth Irene Kalder kennen lernt. Er hat den Direktor der „Emalia" zum Abendessen eingeladen und Schindler bringt sie als Begleiterin mit in das „Rote Haus". Ruth Irene Kalder, geboren 1918 , stammt aus dem oberschlesischen Gleiwitz (Gliwice). Ihr Vater, Parteimitglied, ist Besitzer einer Fahrschule. Sie hat in Essen eine Schauspielschule besucht und ein Diplom als Kosmetikerin erworben, während des Kriegs hat es sie nach Krakau verschlagen, wo sie als Sekretärin für die Wehrmacht arbeitet. Ihr geht der Ruf voraus, dass sie kleinen ..."  Kalder took some lessons in acting, but obtained a diploma of a beautician. — Poeticbent talk 18:47, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Kalder

message: If he used an umlaut than Wikipedia should spell it with an umlaut. And if not, not. {71.22.47.232 (talk) 11:05, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: this is the ENGLISH language section of wikipedia and english-speakers generally don't use umlauts and don't have ready access to them on their keyboards.  if we rule that all names should be spelled the way the original subjects would have written them, then we'd need to put Stalin under Сталин, Mao Zedong under 毛泽东, and Nehru under नेहरू --but these also don't lend themselves to english language-based search-typing. Cramyourspam (talk) 15:16, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Look, you're mixing up two different things. It's a big difference if the name in its original language is written in a totally different script like Chinese or Cyrillic or if, like in this case, Latin letters with additions are used. We have many names here that use varios special letters from the Latin alphabet and against which no one has protested. I think the spelling of the name should be returned to Göth. See Nicolae Ceaușescu or Franz König or Slobodan Milošević. Yes, it's the Englisch language section of the Wikipedia but that shouldn't prevent us from spelling names CORRECTLY just because someone does not like umlauts. I think the article name should be reverted to Amon Göth because that's the right spelling. --Maxl (talk) 14:34, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:NAME is the guiding principal.  This was also discussed at length before with consensus to keep it as "Goeth". -OberRanks (talk) 16:08, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I see no consensus so far since there was no real discussion about how to spell this name. It is still disputed, so there is no consensus. Anyway, as I said, most non-English names with special letters derived from the Latin alphabet are spelled that way in the Wikipedia. Maybe you'd better take into regard peoples's arguments instead of citing a non-extant consensus. --Maxl (talk) 16:28, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

text: All German umlaut names are spelled as in German on en.wp. If German sources have Göth, then title should be Göth. Certainly WP:FULLNAME requires Göth in lead. In ictu oculi (talk) 11:20, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  Totally agree, it should be Göth. Otherwise Hermann Göring article should also be changed, which makes no sense. The only exception I have run into is the ß (eszett) MisterBee1966 (talk) 16:52, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

text:  I have no objections. -- Diannaa (talk) 00:15, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

text:  I have gone ahead with the move. — Diannaa (talk) 02:36, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  The man's name should be spelled as he spelled it which is Göth 

message: The following in-line article has been listed for deletion here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jennifer Teege -O.R.Comms 16:42, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: In-Line Article Link Deletion Notice

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Could someone explain to me what is going on with the footnotes of this article? There are three sections: Notes, Citations, and References, all of which follow different formats. The "References" section looks very comprehensive, but it is a bulleted rather than numbered list. Have the footnotes in this section become dissociated from the citations in the body of the text? Amos Bitzan (talk) 15:11, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The "Citations" section lists a short-form Harvard-style citation for each cite, and each of these is a clickable link to a work in the "References" section, which lists all the sources that were used to prepare this article. This system works great for articles that use the same sources to support many points in the article. Please see the documentation at :Template:Sfn for more information. The "Notes" section is for explanatory notes; i.e. material that is a little off-topic for the flow of the article but should be included anyways. This article has one such note. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 22:09, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Footnotes / Apparatus for this Article 

message: :Helen Jonas-Rosenzweig has a completely different cause of the death of Adam Sztab to that which we depict in this article. I do not see how the two explanations can be reconciled. Can anyone resolve this contradiction? - Sitush (talk) 10:57, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Crowe says (page 257): "According to Stella Muller-Madej, Goth murdered another of his dog handlers, Adam Sztab, because the commandant thought the dogs liked Sztab more than his owner." Either or both could be true. I've removed the material, at least for now — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 18:03, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adam Sztab 

message: A discussion is taking place to address the redirect :Goeth. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 June 28#Goeth until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 13:02, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Goeth" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: A discussion is taking place to address the redirect :Göth. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 June 28#Göth until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 13:02, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Göth" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: Second paragraph under Płaszów:"About 10,000 were sent to Plaszow to be slave labourers", change Plaszow to Płaszów. Aka charlos (talk) 15:00, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Thank you for the suggestion.— Diannaa (talk) 15:59, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 April 2022 

message: Change 
"Kalder suffered of emphysema"
to
"Kalder suffered from emphysema" Wolfita (talk) 02:49, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Thank you for the suggestion. — Diannaa (talk) 12:40, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 August 2022 

message: As a member of the Nazi party and movement, he was not a right wing radical as stated in the article. Nazism is a socialist left political party, not a right leaning party. It's right in their name: National Socialist German Workers' Party. These are all descripters of a left leaning political philosophy and practice. At minimum, you should remove the phrase 'right wing radical' as it is neither accurate nor needed. Just state he was interested in the philosophies and practices of the Nazi party. Vanislescotty (talk) 17:10, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: You are incorrect. Socialist left-leaning elements of the party were eliminated in the Night of the Long Knives and the party was extreme right-wing from that point forward. — Diannaa (talk) 01:45, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Political association 

message: i found typo 1p2u3oiajdijaoijd (talk) 16:41, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate.  BelowTheSun  (T•C) 21:38, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 September 2023