Talk:Brabham

message: I believe the official name of the Brabham team was "Motor Racing Developments", and not Brabham Racing organization.  Jack Brabham was staunchly against using his own name as part of the team, and insisted on the "MRD" name - though it sounded rather unfortunate when spoken by a French commentator.  The Brabham name was adopted as a moniker by commentators, but the actual entrant name on all the team's GP Entries was Motor Racing Developments.  Is it possible that the author has confused Brabham with Ken Tyrrell's 'Tyrrell Racing Organisation'? Posthocergopropterhoc 5 July 2005 04:01 (UTC)
:A few months ago I e-mailed Donn Gurney, who is the contact person at Brabham's website, on this very issue; apparently he asked Sir Jack, who confirmed that Brabham Racing Organisation is the correct full name for his team. — Dan | Talk 15:02, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  The team was "Brabham Racing Organisation". But the constructor was called "Motor Racing Developments". Brabham saw BRO as just another one of several MRD clients. --Pc13 22:17, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

text: I'll second that plan. That is similar to the manner in which the Surtees team has been handled. Although Team Surtees (the race entrant) went through a number of names (Brooke Bond OXO etc etc) they all link back to the main Surtees page, as does the official constructor: Surtees Racing Organisation. Pyrope 15:18, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Works for me. Any other views? 4u1e 17:42, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See also discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Formula_One#Brabham. 4u1e 04:11, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Rather than make a broad statement, would you like to explain your confusion? --Falcadore (talk) 05:02, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Motor Racing Developments

message: Motor Racing Developments was the main company which manufactured the cars, and although BRO was the works F1 team from 1962 to 1969, it was MRD that was the entrant after that. On the policy that has been applied to other teams, this article should really be called 'Motor Racing Developments, Ltd.' but that would be hopelessly confusing. It might be better if this article was renamed 'Brabham', never properly the name of the team, but what most people know it as, and 'Brabham Racing Organisation' and 'Motor Racing Developments' redirected here. That way, most people get what they expect, and those who know the correct full titles also do so. Thoughts? 4u1e 17:44, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll second that plan. That is similar to the manner in which the Surtees team has been handled. Although Team Surtees (the race entrant) went through a number of names (Brooke Bond OXO etc etc) they all link back to the main Surtees page, as does the official constructor: Surtees Racing Organisation. Pyrope 15:18, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Works for me. Any other views? 4u1e 17:42, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See also discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Formula_One#Brabham. 4u1e 04:11, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Rather than make a broad statement, would you like to explain your confusion? --Falcadore (talk) 05:02, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed move from BRO to Brabham

message: The babelfish translation of the Japanese symbols for 'Brabham', appears to be 'Brassiere bum'. Childish, yet hilarious. 4u1e 13:07, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Irrelevant trivia 

message: Judging from model numbers, the production of customer cars for anything outside F1 seems to have ceased in the early 1970s after Bernie Ecclestone took over. What I've read so far (not very much!) suggests that Bernie just let the customer side die out, where you'd have thought that it could have been sold as a going concern. Anyone know what the story is? 4u1e 23:44, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: After (much!) further reading, it seems that BRO was only the sole F1 entrant up to 1965, after that it was more of a joint effort with MRD and BRO seems to disappear at the end of 1969 when Jack sold his shares in MRD to Ron - after that the name on the entry list is almost always MRD, or a variation thereon. MRD is the company that was sold to Bernie - who has said that he wasn't interested in continuing the customer side - he may well have been right as it was around this time that Lotus and others competing in F1 also stopped producing customer cars. 4u1e 07:36, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

text: It's certainly nothing to do with custom cars! Simply a car built to sell to a customer (like those built by Dallara today), rather than one built only for the use of your own racing team (like those built by McLaren today). I'll see if that can be clarified in the text. I've reverted your edits which were inaccurate and rather loaded. If you don't understand the topic, it's perhaps dangerous to try and edit the article, at least not without gaining an understanding first. 4u1e (talk) 07:33, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I've edited to perhaps clarify what customer means. Given your edits, I imagine you mean you found the lead confusing and didn't read the rest of the article...but I've made one edit further down the article too. 4u1e (talk) 07:39, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Demise of the customer car business 

message: This article is very interesting it reads well and I have promoted it as GA Gnangarra 02:51, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA 

message: This seems useful and interesting information, but I can't think where to put it! Leaving it here for now.
"By now a Formula One team budget for the year was £10 - 12 million."Drackett (1985) p.153 This estimate is Ecclestone's, from 1985, although he declined to reveal Brabham's actual budget. 4u1e 00:04, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Info looking for a home 

message: I think this section is little bit confusing:
"In 1988 Ecclestone sold Motor Racing Developments to Alfa Romeo. The Formula One team did not compete that year, but Alfa Romeo put the company to use designing and building a prototype 'Procar' - a racing car with the silhouette of a large saloon (the Alfa Romeo 164) covering a composite racing car chassis and mid mounted race engine, intended for a series for major manufacturers to support Formula One Grands Prix. The car was designated the BT58.[49]"
BT58 can be misunderstood to be that pro-car?--— Typ932T | C  08:47, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It was BT57, fixed the section...--— Typ932T | C  10:39, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  BT58 

message: See also discussion at the top of this page, and the linked discussion at WPF1.
'Brabham'
    	Constructor                                                               	Racing team
1961	Motor Racing DevelopmentsBuild MRD FJunior cars                           	Brabham Racing OrganisationRace privately entered Coopers for JB
1962	Brabham Racing DevelopmentsBuild Brabham cars for FJunior & F1            	Brabham Racing OrganisationRacing Lotus and Brabham chassis in F1
1963	Brabham Racing DevelopmentsBuild Brabham cars for FJunior & F1            	Brabham Racing OrganisationRacing Lotus and Brabham chassis in F1
1964	Brabham Racing DevelopmentsBuild Brabham cars for FJunior & F1            	Brabham Racing OrganisationRacing Brabham chassis in F1
1965	Brabham Racing DevelopmentsBuild Repco Brabham cars for FJunior & F1      	Brabham Racing OrganisationRacing Repco Brabham chassis in F1
1966	Motor Racing DevelopmentsBuild Repco Brabham F3, F2 and F1 cars           	Brabham Racing OrganisationRacing Repco Brabham chassis in F1
1967	Motor Racing DevelopmentsBuild Brabham F3, F2 and F1 cars                 	Brabham Racing OrganisationRacing Repco Brabham chassis in F1
1968	Motor Racing DevelopmentsBuild Repco Brabham F3, F2 and F1 cars           	Brabham Racing OrganisationRacing Repco Brabham chassis in F1
1969	Motor Racing DevelopmentsBuild Brabham F3, F2 and F1 cars                 	Brabham Racing OrganisationRacing Brabham chassis in F1
1970	Motor Racing DevelopmentsBuild Brabham F3, F2 and F1 cars and race F1 cars	-
Stuff to note:
*MRD was re-named BRD from 1962 to 1965.
*MRD/BRD was owned by Jack Brabham and Ron Tauranac from 1961 to 1969. Jack Brabham owned BRO outright throughout. Ron Tauranac owned MRD outright in 1970 before he sold to Bernie Ecclestone for 1972.
*Other than the very first FJunior car built by MRD in 1961, all MRD cars in all formulae were called Brabhams.
*Sources differ, but BRO is reported by Jack Brabham to have run his private Coopers in 1961.
*From 1962 to 1968 'Brabham' cars were marketed and branded as 'Repco Brabhams'
*Between 1966 and 1969 MRD gradually took over running the F1 team from BRO. BRO disappears from the records in 1969.
*MRD ran Brabham entries at Indy in the 1960s, and according to some sources in F2, although I believe the latter is wrong.
*From 1970 to the demise of the company, it was called MRD. MRD was usually the name of the entrant in F1, but was sometimes varied in line with sponsorship deals. The cars were called Brabhams, and the team was casually referred to as Brabham.
The article covers 'Brabham' both as an F1 team and as a racing car constructor. Various subsets of the article could be labelled MRD, BRD, BRO, Brabham or Repco Brabham. I think the simplest thing is to go with what a 'fresh' reader would expect and just call it 'Brabham'. What do you think?
I will review the article for consistent use of all these terms - I may well not have been as consistent as necessary! 4u1e 12:04, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll defer to your wise judgement, but something in the lead explaining  -  or indeed a mere acknowledgement of - a "long and complicated history" would be a great help. A little more clarity in the article about this would be nice also but tbh the mind boggles just looking at the chart :) --kingboyk 12:07, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As far as I remember I tried to defer explaining all this until the 'Motor Racing Developments' section, to avoid sending readers screaming off into the outer darkness with the complexity of it all. I'll review. Thanks for the comments! 4u1e 12:34, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The long and complicated history of the entity known as 'Brabham'

message: An F1 Rejects article on the decline of Brabham after 1983 has been submitted here.  It might be useful to the article.-- Diniz(talk) 20:06, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  New F1 Rejects article 

message: Minor points from my read-through.
*"After Jack Brabham sold his shares in MRD to Ron Tauranac at the end of 1969, the works Formula One team was MRD, although the name on the official entry list sometimes varied in line with sponsorship deals." Needs a citation.
*I more or less accidentally changed the style of dash separators (for example, lorem – ipsum) in the article from space ndash space to mdashes, and you should feel free to revert. There were one or two extant examples when I started, which was what triggered the change.
*"The practice [use of wind tunnels] only became the norm in the early 1980s, and is possibly the most important factor in the design of modern cars." While I agree with this, it's probably worth paying attention to this sentence over the next few years, given Virgin's disagreement.
*"By the late 1980s, carbon brakes were used by all competitors in almost all top level motor sports." Cite?
*"Refuelling was banned for 1984, and did not reappear until the 1994 season (until it was banned again in 2010 as a part of cost cutting measures), but tyre changes have remained part of Formula One." Tricky one, but needs a cite. Apterygial talk 11:02, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minor points 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Does the article need a popular culture section about a HotWheels model? Genuine question, I'm completely out of date on what's acceptable these days. I would note that the quoted summary of the model ("Designed by John Cooper" (John Cooper wasn't really a designer, and never worked for Brabham), "Built by Geoff Brabham" (possible, but he was 17 at the time...)), suggests that someone somewhere has misunderstood something.... 4u1e (talk) 22:19, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah... no. This is utterly superfluous, on top of being largely nonsense. There have been literally hundreds of different Brabham models from pretty much every major manufacturer over the years, so singling out this obscure HotWheels incarnation seems very odd. Was bold. Deleted. Pyrope 02:34, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

text: Sorry to have put your nose out of joint, but... In brief, Wikipedia is a general interest encyclopedia that is intended to be a readable and enjoyable introduction to a topic, not a compendium of all information that exists. Simply put, to get a good picture of Brabham it just isn't at all necessary to know that a model car manufacturer made a model of one of its cars. It would be more surprising if models hadn't been made. Specialist website and even wiki sites exist to document both HotWheels cars specifically and model cars in general, so that detailed trivia is out there for people if they want it. As for the quote you added from the Tomart book, I just hope you kept the receipt, because if that is a fair representation of the quality of information provided by that source I'd take it back to the bookshop. Pyrope 01:55, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm with the other editors, this kind of info does not belong here. As a side not, I might mention that one of my most valued possessions is a Corgi Toys Cooper Maserati (yellow and white, with the adjustable rear wing) that I inherited from an uncle. It is not because I don't love toy cars, but I don't consider this kind of info encyclopaedic. Oh, and props to 2600:8800:etc for going through the trouble of figuring out how to cite things in WP, I hope that you come back a lot. Thank you,  Mr.choppers | ✎  02:32, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Popular culture 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This is a 2006 Featured article that has not been maintained to WP:WIAFA standards.  There is considerable uncited text, the article appears not to be updated since 2010, and there are many statements that do not have as of dates or time context, yet use older sources.  Unless someone can bring this article to current FA standards, it should be submitted for a Featured article review.  SandyGeorgia (Talk)  22:35, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: the Featured article review is now open at Wikipedia:Featured article review/Brabham/archive1; your comment would be more effective on that page. SandyGeorgia (Talk)  03:05, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Featured article review needed