Talk:Paco de Lucía

message: "It is said that he is able to play 16th note triplets at 180 bpm (beats per minute)." This needs attribution, and is probably not accurate. 16th notes at 180 bpm is not all that fast. Paco and Al Di Meola both play 32nd notes at 110 bpm fluidly on Mediterranean Sundance/Rio Ancho from Friday Night in San Francisco. This is the equivalent of 16th notes at 220 bpm.
:Please note that it says "16th note triplets", not "16th notes". 16th note triplets at 180 bpm means 18 notes per second - while 16th notes at 220 bpm is "only " about 14.67 notes per second. J. M. 14:04, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: (So 16th note triplets at 180 bpm would be the equivalent - in terms of speed - of 16th notes at 270 bpm or 32nd notes at 135 bpm, which is also 18 notes per second.) J. M. 14:15, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: This article has a lot of weasel words and other unsourced statements. It would be great if someone could clean this up and offer a more neutral point of view about this fantastic artist. MarkBuckles  (talk) 08:18, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Cite tags

message: On digitaldreamdoor.com, click Music Lists, then click Greatest Specialty Guitarists.  Lucia is #2 on greatest flamenco guitarists. I don't know how to link this because the web address for the page is digitaldreamdoor.com, meaning it does not change when you click on a link.  However, I hope this can be used as a source.
::Digitaldreamdoor is a personal webpage and not a very good citation for Wikipedia. Proper citations should come from professional publications. see WP:CITE or WP:V. Anger22 02:09, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: One of the greatest flamenco guitarists of all time

message: Have deleted the following weasel wording from the introductory para.:
Many think that de Lucia fluently goes into these territories and plays like no other, whereas some purists of these other genres will state that he is just making a venture and is still a flamenco player at heart, lacking the pure jazz style. 
Will try to continue with a general clean-up of this article. --Technopat 10:34, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  deleted text 

message: Intead of deleting, deleting, and just deleting, what this encyclopedia needs is adding, adding, ADDING valuable, informative, and factual material. The article sucks, not for what you and others may think is surplus information, but due to missing information, about Señor Francisco Sánchez's formative years, about his many contributions to the Flamenco genre, including the introduction of South American percussion, about the modern way of setting up Flamenco ensemble, etc. To write about those subjects needs expertise and considerable work, and hence has much more merit, than your beloved deleting. --AVM (talk) 22:45, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Shame on you!

message: The article's only references appear to be two DVD's ... are there no books or articles about him out there? 
And speaking about DVDs, the 2002 documentary suggests that "Entre dos aguas" (the song) was somehow a turning point in his career, in the sense that he gained a much wider audience after that (while before he might have been known primarily among flamenco aficionados and specialists). If that's indeed the case, perhaps it should be mentioned in the article. 81.96.125.240 16:49, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources 

message: No mention of his wonderful work in Mediteranian Sundance on Al DiMeola's Elegant Gypsy album?  This is where I (and I'm sure many others) first heard of Paco...
24.18.201.182 (talk) 16:04, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  No mention of Elegant Gypsy? 

message: I was taught in school that the term gypsy borders upon being a racial slur and that the preferred nomenclature is Roma / Romani. Maybe we should change this no?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vvibbert (talk • contribs) 21:38, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe it is acceptable to use it here. When talking about Roma in Spain they call themselves Gitanos which translates into Gypsy. I hope this helps. --Gibmetal 77talk 00:22, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No, not really; check the article here on Romani people for a discussion of this. +ILike2BeAnonymous (talk) 00:27, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If you look at the more relevant article on Roma in Spain, you can see the term is widely acceptable. --Gibmetal 77talk 01:07, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, that article shows no such thing: it merely uses the term loosely (and sloppily), without a proper explanation of its origin, such as is found in the Romani people article. It is offensive, though still widely used, and shouldn't be used in an encyclopedia article in preference to the more appropriate term (Roma or Romani). +ILike2BeAnonymous (talk) 01:49, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If you really believe it is offensive, I suggest you go ahead and change it from the hundreds of other articles which also use the term Gitano/Gypsie... I still assure you that if someone is proud of calling himself a Gitano it cannot be an offensive term to use in this context, but I see you'd rather revert than discussing things properly to arrive at a conclusion. --Gibmetal 77talk 08:37, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Gibmetal77 you're way out of line and your argument doesn't quite work. Minority groups routinely adapt offensive slurs for use by themselves as a source of strength and pride. Homosexuals at times use the word 'fag' and 'queer' to refer to themselves. Some Americans of African decent use the term 'nigger' in the same way. Just as it would be offensive for an encyclopedia to use the words 'fag' or 'nigger' it must also be true then that if 'Gypsy' is considered offensive by a large number of Roma and the term 'Roma' and 'Romani' have no such negative connotations, using 'Roma' or 'Romani' is the correct decision here. Leaving the term 'Gypsy' just because it has been used frequently would be a mistake of laziness. Unlike other racial slurs, the use of 'Gypsy' is not being used out of hate or an intention to demean, but out of simple ignorance of the issues at hand.  Vvibbert (talk) 02:52, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

text: Well, a reference to that effect (that he's not of Roma descent) would be nice, rather than just your suggestion for using a Web search, which proves nothing. Do you have any valid sources for that? +ILike2BeAnonymous (talk) 04:02, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

text: I'm not even going to look at any of those links; I have no idea what they are. If you can't be bothered to do anything more than just dump some Google search results here, then I guess you're not serious. How about giving us a link to a credible source, along with a description of what that source is? +ILike2BeAnonymous (talk) 18:12, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Roma not gypsy 

message: Will anyone add transcription of his name? Just I'm not sure how it is pronounced, whether it sounds like Paco de LuSia or Paco de LuCHya.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.30.232.76 (talk) 08:53, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Your first guess is close enough, though in Peninsular Spanish pronunciation the 'c' in Lucía is closer to a 'z' than to an 's', except (Good gracious!) in Andalusia, the region where Paco was born and raised. My advice: learn some Spanish language. You'll find it interesting. --AVM (talk) 23:01, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation of his name 

message: Regarding the "Concierto de Aranjuez", the article claims "Joaquín Rodrigo declared that no one had ever played his composition in such a brilliant manner". This is an exaggeration, in the referred source Rodrigo says nothing of the sort, he just defines De Lucías's interpretation as "beautiful, exotic and inspired".  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.32.71.61 (talk) 12:14, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Joaquín Rodrigo misquoted 

message: I would suggest that the ideal source to complete this page would be to request an analysis from Paco Pena  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.252.12.175 (talk) 23:10, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Expert review 

message: The External links section is not for an excess source parking lot. They belong here on the talk page. Caution: I haven't checked them out to see if they are acceptable. Please put sources here in the future. Also, we do not use photo galleries, per WP:IG and "See Also" links also go here. Thank you. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 12:18, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links is not where unused sources belong! 

message: Hi everyone,
I don't know how to add an information so please can someone add it:
at the end of the article it is said that paco de lucia is going to turkey and morocco.
Well he's also attending the International Festival of Carthage, Tunisia. He will give a concert on the 31 july 2013.
Here are some sources (in french):
http://tunisie14.tn/article/detail/le-concert-envivo-de-paco-de-lucia-au-festival-international-de-carthage
http://www.tunisky.com/paco-de-lucia-au-festival-de-carthage-le-31-juillet/
http://www.mille-et-une-tunisie.com/arts-a-culture/festivals-a-foires/4103-paco-de-lucia-et-jean-michel-jarre-au-festival-de-carthage.html
http://www.marhba.com/evenements/2853-le-festival-de-carthage-2013-avec-deux-grands-noms-paco-de-lucia-et-jean-michel-jarre
Thanks for the great work!
Jalloulo (talk) 11:59, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  adding tunisia concert 

message: So far, we don't seem to have confirmation of the date of death - the blog (improperly) used as a citation is dated Feb 26th, and says he died 'last night', which is ambiguous.  The BBC, which I have cited, doesn't give a date. . AndyTheGrump (talk) 13:11, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: CNN states died late Tuesday. WWGB (talk) 13:25, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, they say "Tuesday, Mexico time". Would that be Wednesday, European time, so Reuters and others may have misunderstood? Iselilja (talk) 13:28, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The Guardian now has an obituary which says 25th. . AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:47, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

text: The Reuters report linked above has now been amended to say "died suddenly of a heart attack on Tuesday evening in Mexico". On the other hand, the NYT says "died on Wednesday".  AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:55, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Date of death 

message: De Lucía is not his surname, so we cannot use it as such: "De Lucía is, De Lucía was, De Lucía played" etc. All these seem to be wrongly used. --Why should I have a User Name? (talk) 10:13, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I would always say Paco de Lucía but I know Wikipedia is not about one′s personal preferences. --Why should I have a User Name? (talk) 11:06, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

text: (e/c)  It had occurred to me as well - but I think that both Gary Glitter and Paco de Lucia ("de Lucia" deriving from his mother's name) are constructed as names with a forename and surname.  They both contrast, for example, with Manitas de Plata ("Little hands of silver"), which has a specific meaning rather than being forename and surname - it would be inappropriate to refer to him as "de Plata".  Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:10, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: What do you suggest then? I refer to him as Paco (or the maestro), but according to MOS guidelines we shouldn't use the first name. It would also be inappropriate to keep using his full name or his original surname which few would recognize.♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:21, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: This says "Paco", and this uses "Paco de Lucia" (or "he").  Both this and  this say "de Lucia" - which is probably what we should do.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:27, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  De Lucía 

message: The mother of Paco de Lucía was born in Castro Marim, a locality south east of Portugal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castro_Marim_Municipality
Paco recorded an album called Castro Marín in homage to his mother's town.
85.139.86.93 (talk) 15:22, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. --ElHef (Meep?) 16:15, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: There is a reference here.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:22, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 3 March 2014 

message: I am exposing a metric for the importance of albums, styles and partners.
The massive visitation of Paco de Lucía's article have strong correlated audience in another articles. The traffic statistics behaviour of the 2014-02-26 event — at the Paco's dead day, Paco's page jumps from average ~300/day to ~79000 (260x) — can be used as a "metric" of the importance (in the general point of view of the audience):
* Camarón de la Isla's page scored ~100/day average pageviews, jumps to 2900 (29x).
* Tomatito's page scored ~50/day average pageviews, jumps to 730 (15x).
* Al Di Meola's page scored ~300/day average pageviews, jumps to 3600 (12x).
*  John McLaughlin's page scored ~500/day average pageviews, jumps to 3250 (7x).
*  Larry Coryell's page scored ~100/day average pageviews, jumps to 480 (5x).
*  Javier Limón's page scored ~25/day average pageviews, jumps to 120 (5x).
* Others with lower average audience:
**  Paco de Lucía Sextet's  page scored ~15/day average pageviews, jumps to 322 (21x).
**  Pepe de Lucía's  page scored ~10/day average pageviews, jumps to 880 (88x).
**  Ramón de Algeciras's  page scored ~10/day average pageviews, jumps to 650 (65x).
Comparing with citations of artits names at the article's text (at same date): Camarón de la Isla (8 citations, under-cited cmp Coryell);  Tomatito (0 citations, under-cited); Al Di Meola (12 citations); John McLaughlin (10 citations, over-cited cmp Meola);  Larry Coryell (6 citations); Javier Limón (1 citations, under-cited cmp Coryell); Paco de Lucía Sextet (4 citations, under-cited); Pepe de Lucía (4); Ramón de Algeciras (1, under-cited).
Musics:
*  Entre dos aguas: ~20/day average, jumps to ~1900 (95x).
*  Concierto de Aranjuez: ~300/day average, jumps to ~1300 (4x).
* Others with lower average audience:
**  Rio Ancho: ~10/day average, jumps to ~580 (58x).
** ...
Albuns:
*  El mundo del flamenco: ~8/day average, jumps to ~308 (38x).
*  Por Descubrir: ~6/day average, jumps to ~190 (32x).
*  Integral: ~8/day average, jumps to ~245 (31x).
Styles:
*  New Flamenco: ~70/day average, jumps to ~450 (6x).
* Flamenco: ~1000/day average, jumps to ~1500 (2x).
Some cited bands and artists like Pata Negra, Julio_Iglesias  or Erick Clapton have no correlation (0x); Chick Corea low/diffused correlation (~2x).
;Conclusion: Despite the low visitation in some articles, where the error is greater, as well as the pages with more irregular events, the correlation was significative. (another event-correlations can be found reinforcing this one). The article must enhance some of the "strong correlated subjects", as  New Flamenco, Al Di Meola, Camarón de la Isla, or Entre dos aguas; than "weakly correlated subjects".
--Krauss (talk) 21:37, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Topics to be enhanced! 

message: I see the page's new OWNer User:Rms125a@hotmail.com thinks that Paco was first and foremost a composer which is ridiculous. He was and always will be a flamenco guitarist who happened to compose some of his own songs. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:39, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  Actually I don't think anything about Paco de Lucía's music. He happens to be on my watchlist fot another reason, hence I noticed your unsourced edits. Sorry if I ruffled your feathers that much, Let it go, dude. Quis separabit? 15:43, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Guitarist vs composer 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Paco de Lucía. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131029205058/http://www.flamenco-world.com/noticias/tana.htm to http://www.flamenco-world.com/noticias/tana.htm
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 06:25, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Paco de Lucía. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140226230445/http://www.el-nacional.com/escenas/Paco-Lucia-propio-hospital-murio_0_362963760.html to http://www.el-nacional.com/escenas/Paco-Lucia-propio-hospital-murio_0_362963760.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 15:33, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: In nearly 40 years as flamenco journalist, I have seldom, if ever, seen Paco de Lucía referred to as "De Lucía" outside of Wikipedia; he is simply "Lucía", as as far as I'm aware this is the normal convention.  Certainly in libraries (I've just looked), he is "Lucía, Paco de", not "De Lucía, Paco".
I therefore move that the article be modified accordingly — unless, of course, the Wikipedia standard is different.
Paul Magnussen (talk) 19:30, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Naming conventions