Talk:John Dundee

message: I do not see why family wishes should dictate Wikipedia's policies.  Wikipedia has guidelines on how to format biographies (yes this is a biography, as it is an article about a person), which should be followed on all biography articles.  In addition, there is a policy on article ownership, which seems applicable as well.  Please stop reverting the article to the 'withdrawn' text, as it appears childish (you are also breaking the three-revert rule).  --Lusantian (talk) 17:30, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The subject of the article is a public figure. No permission is required to write well-sourced non-contentious information about them. –xeno (talk) 16:13, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

text: I wonder how that would work?  If Bertie Ahern's family didn't want information about his controversial "administrative convenience" cheques published, should it be removed from all sources?  —EncMstr (talk) 16:43, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

text: Details that are already in published sources? What on Earth sort of law are you proposing? Phil Sandifer (talk) 20:39, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regarding family wishes 

message: Is there a strict policy about excluding academic post-nominal initials from the first sentence (as per here?
If so, that would leave OBE, as the only permissible one in this article, with the others mentioned in section(s) beneath. Cheers Bjenks (talk) 13:11, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think so. Also any verifiable facts you can cull from the version of the article here and add it to this article would be helpful. –xeno (talk) 13:20, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

text: I'm pretty sure this section of MOS:BIO applies to the question.  If I'm reading this right, post-nominal initials in the lead sentence are fine.  --Lusantian (talk) 13:25, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Good call Lusantian. In most cases yes, the OBE is particularly appropriate. –xeno (talk) 13:29, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Er, but I see in that section Post-nominal letters indicating academic degrees (including honorary degrees) should not be included following the subject's name. Bjenks (talk) 13:44, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I was looking at Post-nominal letters should be included when they are issued by a country or organization the subject has been closely associated with.    It won't make a big impact on the article either way, so do whatever you think looks best ;)  --Lusantian (talk) 13:52, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, but the sentence you quote ends with but generally should be omitted from the lead. So, include 'em, but lower down—that's how I'll take it, provided there is verification in each case. Bjenks (talk) 14:05, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Honorifics 

message: Does anyone know of an online British dictionary similar to comprehensive U.S. English dictionaries such as http://www.merriam-webster.com/ and http://www.dictionary.com ?  I'm struggling to spell the words in this article using UK-Irish English, but there seems to be little published online to help.  —EncMstr (talk) 19:28, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Try here.  Very few words in this article need attention. Some obvious ones to watch are anaesthetics (etc), honour(s) and traveller.  The best traditional authorities for non-US English include the (full) Oxford English Dictionary (which is online only on a paid basis) and the very useful little Oxford Authors' and Printers' Dictionary, my well-thumbed copy of which I always keep at my elbow (:-)) Cheers Bjenks (talk) 02:38, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

text: I've fixed traveller. Feel free to point out or simply fix any other American English to British English. –xeno (talk) 16:16, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

text: The protection is about to expire, so I could probably lift it, but is the information sourced or sourceable? –xeno (talk) 16:25, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  British dictionary 

message: ...for the following removed content: . –xeno (talk) 14:31, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Found a few. –xeno (talk) 15:30, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations needed... 

message: The second-to-last paragraph reads "At various times, he was superintendent of Windsor City Mission and a member of the board of BCM."  Does any one know what exactly the "BCM" is?  The BCM disambiguation page doesn't turn up anything useful.  --Lusantian (talk) 17:18, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Belfast City Mission maybe? –xeno (talk) 17:19, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That could be.  The article doesn't mention the Belfast City Mission though, so I didn't want to assume...  --Lusantian (talk) 17:22, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There's no such thing as the "Windsor City Mission" according to Google. But there is a Belfast City Mission and they probably have a mission hall in Windsor, which I gather is what this sentence is driving at. –xeno (talk) 17:26, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

text: I respect the evident fact that you have the knowledge to contribute sensibly to articles such as this—and have done so, quite a few times, I see (often enough, in fact, to support an inference that you have a constructive view about information). However, I also have to allow primacy to Wikipedia's important pragmatic rules about 'neutral point of view', verifiability, 'original research' and, predominantly notability.  If JD's 'hockey achievements' pass a notability test and can be openly documented, it's more than likely that you can successfully incorporate a reference in the article without challenge. It is at least partly a matter for private judgement as to whether internet systems are appropriate vehicles for promoting sectional views with a purpose of excluding or deflecting scrutiny and alternative views. Cheers Bjenks (talk) 01:17, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ambiguous acronym in last paragraph 

message: Dear Family (Waltzingmatilda57 et al):
It is clear that this article has been a source of confusion and pain for you.  How sad!  But because this is a public article about a public person, that is just how things are going to be.  The best thing you can do for your own peace of mind is to completely ignore this article.  Here at WP, people with any direct involvement in a subject are not supposed to edit the articles -- strange but true!
The best way for you to influence the content of the article would be to put everything you want to say, exactly the way you want to say it, somewhere else on the Internet.  And then let the people here decide what to do with that information.  If you provide good information, with good sources, in the long run that will have much influence.  But you must be patient with the process!  If you have unique documents, put the images online, somewhere, in a way that they will be preserved for all time.  (Consider using wikimedia and the internet archive.)
There are many other online encyclopedias that work in a different way, where you would be able to prove your special interest and access to information, and influence the content more directly -- although in most cases you still would probably not be allowed to dictate the exact wording of the whole article.
I hope you can get over this pain.  WP is a fantastic resource, shared by all humans together -- but the process of creating it also involves endless ongoing agony, also shared among almost all those of us who work on it.
-69.87.199.246 (talk) 22:37, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The subject of the article is a public figure. As long as everything is well-sourced, there is no law against anything written here. –xeno (talk) 16:04, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dear Family 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified