Talk:Bramshill House

message: Very bad idea. The Police Staff College is an institution (is this the same as or only part of the Central Police Training and Development Authority?) and Bramshill House is an historic house. The college is housed in more than just the house and the house has a history much more extensive than that of the college. Verica Atrebatum 09:54, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. The grade I listed house and the college are both notable in their own right, but for completely different reasons. I will remove the merge notice. Casperonline 13:41, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed merge

message: Bramshill is well known as a reputedly haunted house. The ghosts/hauntings may or may not be 'rubbish'. This is down to your point of view, a disussion which has no place here. Hence the use of 'reported' and 'reputed'. However, the fact that the ghost sitings/hauntings have been reported is itself of note, particularly those with a basis in legend. Although the sitings themselves eventually become part of folklore. The source quoted is not 'questionable' as defined at Wikipedia:Verifiability:
"Questionable sources are those with a poor reputation for fact-checking or with no editorial oversight. Questionable sources should only be used in articles about themselves. Articles about such sources should not repeat any contentious claims the source has made about third parties, unless those claims have also been published by reliable sources."
This aspect of Bramshill should, perhaps, not be given too much emphasis, but a short paragraph, particularly including a link to the Legend of the Mistletoe Bough page, is certainly appropriate and ensures the entry does not become un-encyclopaedic. Without links from its supposed locations, the Mistletoe Bough page would be in danger of beoming orphaned. Walgamanus (talk) 11:27, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Reported hauntings

message: There's a lot of good happening here and I don't want to interfere and edit, but one of two small nitpicks
* "The southern facade is unique" What's unique about it? Other than it's not exactly reproduced elsewhere (which you could say about almost any house large or small anywhere) I can think of several other houses of this era which are  similar.  Giano  18:58, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Richard Unger in an article in "History Today" refers to German shipbuilders of the C15, as distinct from Dutch shipbuilders. The same source appears to refer to Italian builders leaving hastily after the accession of Elizabeth, but doesn't give a reason. Any idea? Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 12:01, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I assume that the Italians were Catholics who prospered under Mary I, but were afraid of persecution under the Protestant Elizabeth I. However the Italian/Renaissance influence began during the reign of the notoriously protestant Henry VIII, so I don't know why they were afraid of the more tolerant Elizabeth I. I would put money on the builders being Dutch of Flemish, but if the reff says German, I suppose German it must remain.  Giano  12:42, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi --"By the end of Mary's reign, in 1558, nearly all the Italians had left England, and the accession of Elizabeth I, who, at first secretly, and after her rupture with Rome openly, shewed her sympathy with the Protestant cause, was the signal for the appearance in England of many foreigners from Germany and Holland.... [some remarks on where Dutch and German workers were active)...Bramshill and Longford Castle are examples of German work in England..." The text distinguishes in the elided passage between Dutch and German artisans, so I don't think the author was, for instance, confused. Drmies (talk) 14:06, 23 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Good work

message: The source is segment VIII, "Henry Frederick, Prince of Wales", of a serialised book by Rose G. Kingsley: The Children of Westminster Abbey. The entire book is . The index listing can be found on page ix at the start of the bound volume of Wide Awake - I searched Rose G. Kingsley. Judging by the OCLC listing, Kingsley should be credited as sole author of the contribution, the others presumably being editors of the periodical. This is a good illustration of the kind of situation that makes me prefer not to use citation templates, but it's clearly a case of contribution within a periodical, the challenge being to get the eventual book's title in there. (And find the possible bound-in second title page with the date of the appropriate segment, but I believe the date preceding that table of contents applies.) Yngvadottir (talk) 21:02, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: ''Wide Awake''

message: I added an External Link to the estate agent handling the sale, Knight Frank—more specifically, to the page on their website that gives details about the property: Bramshill, Bramshill, Hook, Hampshire, RG27 UK.  I was reverted by another IP on the grounds that it was "spam".  I put the link back because of the info it has about the property, with lots of photos.  When you open the link, you can also download a 40-page pdf brochure that contains a wealth of information about the property.  I'd like to hear opinions from other interested parties on whether the EL should stay or go.  I will abide by the consensus here.  Thanks.  --108.45.72.196 (talk) 23:25, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  EL to the estate agent 

message: The flurry of recent edits is something to cheer about, but also presents some issues. , while we thank you for this edit, you also introduce a lot of unverified material and a ton of bare URLs in place of proper references. I urge contributors to honor what we're trying to do here, which is present properly verified material in a consistent format. Cleanup afterward is possible, but it's a drag. Drmies (talk) 01:07, 23 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I suspect the source for much of that is the 40-page brochure, which I couldn't resist downloading. The park also being listed caught my eye, too. Hopefully that can be verified at English Heritage. Yngvadottir (talk) 07:18, 23 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: There's a bunch of EH links in there; I templated them yesterday (hope I got them all). BTW, the above link discussion needs to take into account that the Knight Frank link is now also used as a reference. Drmies (talk) 14:00, 23 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Is what's being referenced there the brochure? If so, it's not the same thing as the external link. Further to sources, now that I have both Pevsner and Cope right here .... the copy of Pevsner I'm using is the 1967, but reprinted in 1973. Do the dates need to be changed for those references, presumably using origyear? Also the Cope book has no date on it that I can find, so 1883 is someone's inspired guess. Should this be indicated? Also also, User:Tibetan Prayer originally suggested scanning in illustrations from the Cope book. I find 3 photos, 2 façades and one a closer view of the garden terrace, plus several plans and some drawings. I could scan these and upload them with someone's assistance but before I attempt it, would like to be sure it would not violate copyright, since we now have quite a few images, including the Country Life ones which I had assumed were copyrighted. Yngvadottir (talk) 21:06, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: 1883 is more than an inspired guess.  Eric Corbett 21:14, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

text: Google Books draws on databases such as OCLC for publication dates, and I've known them to often be wrong - they had the wrong year for the Cox book, for example. I can't find any date actually in the book (although the copy is inscribed April 15th 1883, so we have a terminus ad quem) and the librarian who reported  marked it as a guess. What does the British Library say? However, I don't think the exact date is a major point - it's just that the templated citation formats make it one of the 2 points of identification. Yngvadottir (talk) 21:34, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The British Library also says 1883.  Eric Corbett 21:40, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd wikilink "English bond" except I don't know where in the Brickwork article it should be linked to. Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 15:33, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: What about English bond?  Eric Corbett 15:55, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, done that. I got confused by all the different varieties. The photo of the arcaded opening seems to show some pretty random brickwork. Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 21:10, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

text: Things have quieted down after further work by the IP, who has sorted out which subordinate façade is which. So I would encourage all of you to dive in again. I have Pevsner and Cope to check stuff if necessary. I don't trust my taste on layout, but had thought myself that one south façade view is superfluous. I may be attempting to upload plans and detail drawings from Cope - I'm not sure the few photos there (all exteriors) would add much. But I suspect the "speed bump" is the top of the high bridge. Yngvadottir (talk) 20:04, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: That IP has done a great job. I've been wondering whether the FAC rules allow an IP to be included in the list of nominators.  Eric Corbett 21:41, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you, Eric.  I appreciate your compliment.  (No need to put my name on a list, though.)  --108.45.72.196 (talk) 22:13, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I respect your wish for anonymity, don't worry about that.  Eric Corbett 22:50, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: We'll just refer to you as peon 108. Seriously, well done--thanks. What's the status of the GA nomination? Drmies (talk) 22:15, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The nomination was withdrawn before the GA review started. I've removed the template from this page, so if you delete Talk:Bramshill House/GA1 we can start again.  Eric Corbett 22:44, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Ha, very funny Mr. Eric. I'll put in a request for such deletion. Drmies (talk) 23:01, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you know, I'd forgotten all about that. Why don't you ask for your toolkit back?  Eric Corbett 00:36, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I wanted to see a few people disgraced first, but it's not likely to happen. So I might as well. Wikipedia is very much like real life as depicted on any Style Council album: it rains and nothing happens. Drmies (talk) 03:59, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: "[T]he sight of South Wigston on a wet and foggy Sunday afternoon in November is an experience one is glad to have had. It reaches the rock bottom of English provincial life; and there is something profoundly moving about it"- William George Hoskins. The place (disguised as "Winston Parva") is the subject of "The Established and the Outsiders" by Scotson and Elias- "[They] explain differences in power and rank between two very similar groups - both working class - in a local community studied in the early 1960s. They show how one group monopolised sources of power and used them to exclude and stigmatise members of the other, pinpointing the role of gossip in the process." Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 06:44, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

text: Please do put it up for GA review again; I'm staying out of the way so as not to muck things up for you lot, but let me know if you'd like the plans and/or detail drawings from the Cope book, providing they're legal to use. I know they won't affect the GA review. :-) Yngvadottir (talk) 16:10, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Recent edits

message: I am hanging back from editing as there are a lot of editors currently doing good thing and I don't like interfering with work in progress; however, the images look very cluttered and, in my view, probably a few want pruning out - for instance; is there a need for two near identical images of the south front (one in lead and one further down)? There's also a third image of that facade in what appears to be a picture of a speed hump at the bottom of the page. Furthermore, the romanticised Victorian images of what may or may not have happened in the 16th century are really not telling us a lot either - these sort of pictures are fine if nothing better is available, but that is not the case here.  Giano  09:26, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Things have quieted down after further work by the IP, who has sorted out which subordinate façade is which. So I would encourage all of you to dive in again. I have Pevsner and Cope to check stuff if necessary. I don't trust my taste on layout, but had thought myself that one south façade view is superfluous. I may be attempting to upload plans and detail drawings from Cope - I'm not sure the few photos there (all exteriors) would add much. But I suspect the "speed bump" is the top of the high bridge. Yngvadottir (talk) 20:04, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: That IP has done a great job. I've been wondering whether the FAC rules allow an IP to be included in the list of nominators.  Eric Corbett 21:41, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you, Eric.  I appreciate your compliment.  (No need to put my name on a list, though.)  --108.45.72.196 (talk) 22:13, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I respect your wish for anonymity, don't worry about that.  Eric Corbett 22:50, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: We'll just refer to you as peon 108. Seriously, well done--thanks. What's the status of the GA nomination? Drmies (talk) 22:15, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The nomination was withdrawn before the GA review started. I've removed the template from this page, so if you delete Talk:Bramshill House/GA1 we can start again.  Eric Corbett 22:44, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Ha, very funny Mr. Eric. I'll put in a request for such deletion. Drmies (talk) 23:01, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you know, I'd forgotten all about that. Why don't you ask for your toolkit back?  Eric Corbett 00:36, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I wanted to see a few people disgraced first, but it's not likely to happen. So I might as well. Wikipedia is very much like real life as depicted on any Style Council album: it rains and nothing happens. Drmies (talk) 03:59, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: "[T]he sight of South Wigston on a wet and foggy Sunday afternoon in November is an experience one is glad to have had. It reaches the rock bottom of English provincial life; and there is something profoundly moving about it"- William George Hoskins. The place (disguised as "Winston Parva") is the subject of "The Established and the Outsiders" by Scotson and Elias- "[They] explain differences in power and rank between two very similar groups - both working class - in a local community studied in the early 1960s. They show how one group monopolised sources of power and used them to exclude and stigmatise members of the other, pinpointing the role of gossip in the process." Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 06:44, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

text: Please do put it up for GA review again; I'm staying out of the way so as not to muck things up for you lot, but let me know if you'd like the plans and/or detail drawings from the Cope book, providing they're legal to use. I know they won't affect the GA review. :-) Yngvadottir (talk) 16:10, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Photos

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Not wanting to mess around with this splendid article while it enjoys its well-deserved day in the sun, but I wonder if the Architecture (Exterior) section would benefit from a little updating. The revised Hampshire Pevsner; Hampshire: Winchester and the North, isbn 9780300120844, , suggests "Richard Goodridge, mason, (as) responsible for its construction, if not for its design". Interestingly, it makes no mention of John Thorpe. I shall make this addition along, "recent research suggests..." lines, when the TFA is over, unless there are any concerns. KJP1 (talk) 09:32, 16 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: And, rather belatedly, have done so. KJP1 (talk) 10:04, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible designer?