Talk:Sacred geometry/Archive 1

message: I removed the examples of Euler's identity and the collaboration graph, since they don't fit the given definition: they are precisely describably by geometry/algebra and not mere approximations of something deeper. AxelBoldt, Saturday, March 30, 2002
Removed this
::and some modern physicists expressed similar ideas, especially Schrödinger, Heisenberg and Bohm.
None of them to my knowledge has expressed the idea that there exist geometries which are beyond algebraic description or human comprehesive.  This sounds to me like "Dancing Wu-Li Master"/"Tao of Physics" nonsense.
This whole article seems highly questionable to me (what on earth is "neo-Platonic geometry"???) and it either needs a serious overhaul, clarification, and references to some legitimate publications, or else deletion. Revolver 06:13, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have responded to this on the logical fallacy talk page, as well as on the pages of the above mentioned users.  It does appear that these pages were as Hu suggests the victim of a tiresome semi-sophisticated troll.  But I wasn't the perpetrator.  This suggestion appears to have been an honest mistake, I consider the matter closed, and it appears that Hu does as well. CSTAR 01:41, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Archive of [[Talk:Sacred_geometry]] up to July 1, 2006

message: For the record, the user  Critical ( talk,  contributions), who slapped the "disputed NPoV" sticker on this page, has made his or her first edits tonight (or today) and within less than two hours has attacked eight articles for PoV, including (ironically given the CStar example given on the Logical fallacy talk page), Physical law.  These were the only "edits" (plus weak justifications on talk pages in the same vein as this one).  I don't think the PoV claim has merit.  We may ask if this series of attacks is to be taken seriously.
For the following reasons I am thinking that these pages has been the victim of a tiresome semi-sophisticated troll and the PoV sticker should be removed sooner rather than later, if not immediately.  We may note that  CStar ( talk,  contributions) after making edits, paused during the period user Critical made edits, and then CStar took up responding to these edits after the series of user Critical edits ends, as if there is only one user involved, and the user logged out, changed cookies and logged back in.  Further, user CStar left a note on  Charles Matthew's talk page,  Chalst's talk page, and   Angela's talk page pointing to a supposed PoV accusation placed on the Logical argument page, when in fact no such sticker has been placed.  Perhaps the irony regarding the Physical law page is not so ironic. Hu 05:18, 2004 Dec 1 (UTC)
::: I have responded to this on the logical fallacy talk page, as well as on the pages of the above mentioned users.  It does appear that these pages were as Hu suggests the victim of a tiresome semi-sophisticated troll.  But I wasn't the perpetrator.  This suggestion appears to have been an honest mistake, I consider the matter closed, and it appears that Hu does as well. CSTAR 01:41, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: About Users Critical and CStar

message: This does seem to be an odd page.  At least three notions are conflated: the notion of sacred geometry as used in archaeology and the history of architecture; a rather vague idea that some mystical, semi-mystical, and other religious traditions use geometrical shapes in their teachings and literature; and an even vaguer gesture towards real philosophy of mathematics which isn't explained (the reference to Plato is extremely misleading).  None of the the claims in the article is substantiated, the only source provided being a rather loopy "Geomancy" Web site.
Surely this article need to be substantially rewritten (or removed altogether, and any useful information added to articles on the subjects conflated here).  I've added a rewrite template to the page itself.  If I get the chance I'll do some of this myself, but if anyone were to beat me to it I'd not grumble.  Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 10:39, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm. Well, just be aware that the golden ratio seemed to play a variety of mystical roles in ancient greece.  Whether or not any of this mysticism was expressed in actual architecture appears to be debatable, (from what I recall reading recently (some of this may have been wishful thinking by 19th century classics scholars)). Does it really make sense to split out the discussion of the golden ratio in greek mysticism from possible architectural manifestations?  linas 13:50, 20 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unsubstantiated claims 

message: Or those with information that does not fit Wikipedia's NPOV style. We would be glad to have you add it in to a conspiracy wiki site I run. There is a link to sacred geometry on the main page and I just copied the article over. You can find a link to the site on my page. Conwiki 02:48, 20 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Those with information out of the mainstream

message: :let it be known that I know nothing about this subject and just find it relatively interesting, however, I think maybe if we start a list of topics that either deserve sections or sub-sections we can work out an organization for this article gren 12:51, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of important topics 

message: What would be an example of non-sacred geometry? 
Seventhpower 05:06, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Example of Non-Sacred Geometry? 

message: This article is pretty shocking NPOV-wise, I've added a template on the page and propose that unless someone is willing to give it a substantial re-write it be deleted. Graphia 08:59, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the text you are objecting to was added on 16-17 dec 2005 and should have been deleted at that time. Unfortunately, this article is a magnet for odder edits, and there does not seem to be anyone qualified who is watching it.  If you still think its npov, add that sticker. linas 03:48, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd be willing to take this on (In fact, I started an account specifically because I would like to). I'm new to Wikipedia though, so let me catch up on style and such before I tackle it. --Blade 21:03, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV 

message: I have inserted some material relating the topic to historical (ancient and medieval) ideas and beliefs, which is a large part of its significance, and explaining the links which were believed to exist between geometry, music, cosmology and temple design/religious art. Added in some refs to Pythagoras, Kepler and other historical believers in the cosmological significance of geometry. Hopefully I have been sufficiently NPOV and factual.
Also added reference to Celtic design and the classic George Bain book. He doesn't discuss theory to a great degree but does demonstrate that the sacred art of both ancient and medieval Celts was closely based on geometric constructions.
MikeRM 03:39, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice edits Blade 18:59, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Significant edits 

message: I removed 'Crop Circles' from Art and Architecture. I don't think it belongs in that section. Plus, it wasn't formatted correctly. Blade 17:23, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Crop Circles

message: I removed the links to Soul Symbol until that article has more references/substance. Alsi, I re-organized the external links and removed the Kepler links, as the links in the text seem sufficient. Blade 18:56, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: However, this article is not about the scientific work based off of geometries. It is about sacred geometry, that is 'attributing a religious or cultural value to the graphical representation of the mathematical relationships'. The scientific validity of the concepts are not the perview of this article. Blade 02:48, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: More Edits

message: Removed link to Earthmandalakeepers.com as an ad link. Blade 02:39, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Reversions

message: I don't know who wrote this page, but it would be well to inform him or her that scientific work established on geometries, symmetries and super symmetries are very much alive! keppler was certainly not the last of 'a dying breed' as the article suggests.
Further, this article is strangely critical of a mathematical and geometrical explanation of phenomena. very strange indeed. there is nothing 'superstitious or uneducated' about the golden ratio. the aesthetics of the golden ration is accepted by most including artists. Please do not attribute scientific knowledge to be unscientific!
:However, this article is not about the scientific work based off of geometries. It is about sacred geometry, that is 'attributing a religious or cultural value to the graphical representation of the mathematical relationships'. The scientific validity of the concepts are not the perview of this article. Blade 02:48, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Commentary

message: Someone posted "This is not true" at the end of the music section. I have removed it. However, if anyone has citations for or against that section, please chime in! Blade 23:24, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Music

message: It would be nice to have this article include more information on sacred geometry as expressed by Islamic Design. I was going to add a link to an article I wrote about Moroccan geometric mosaics, but saw no more links allowed on this page. Suggestions on how to fold the Islamic angle (geometric/non-representational art) into the article? Moroccan design, in my view, is even more primal/related to old geometric practices because of its location as an outpost of various empires (Roman, Phonecian, Arabic, Berber (not outpost, but "forgotten" culture))
Link I was going to add is: http://moroccandesign.com/moroccan-mosaics-the-art-of-zillij
165.13.206.230 (talk) 17:47, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Welcome to Wikipedia.  I would suggest that rather than simply adding the link, if the link contains reliably sourced material that is not already present in the article, you summarize the material and use the link as a reference.  thanks.TheRingess (talk) 19:33, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Info on Moroccan/Islamic Design: link suggestion 

message: I added the npov tag and updated the date on the refimprove tag. There should be some sources on this article, even unreliable and primary sources are better than none at all. Voiceofreason01 (talk) 16:28, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: sources

message: "Sacred geometry is the study of shapes and angles that appear in nature and represent the blueprint of creation. It is the pattern of energy that forms naturally in nature and has been studied by metaphysicians and architects, and was used by the builder's of Solomon's Temple and all the great Cathedrals. These patterns form naturally in molecules of water, snowflakes, pinecones, DNA, stars, galaxies and space, virtually everywhere... Sacred geometry is the silent language of the energy of the Universe... it is the building block of the entire Universe." - The Magdalene Awakening by L. Shannon Anderson (Sacred Escape, 2008) 64.136.26.22 (talk) 16:10, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quote & Reference 

message: This article is overly bland. My diagnosis is that it is too POV neutral! Less provocatively stated, there should be multiple articles on sacred geometry as it is practiced in the major cultures where (some form of) geometrical design is considered sacred. Within the context of a given culture, it should be possible to intelligently discuss in rich detail such concepts as celestial alignments, sky geometry replicated in sacred structures, land enchantment alignments (ley lines), tessellations, calligraphic designs, encoding of "lucky" or significant numbers or ratios in designs, as appropriate to the culture.
My Leopard Spot (talk) 01:25, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for your suggestion. When you believe an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes.  Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the  link at the top. The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills.  New contributors are always welcome. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to). shoy (reactions) 01:33, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

text: See WP:LEAD. The lead is the summary of the article, and the article doesn't define sacred geometry the way you did in your edit. If you want to change the article, please read WP:VERIFY and make sure you source any changes. Dougweller (talk) 10:29, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not enough content, not enough detail, not enough culture 

message: Some images we could include in article
:No, I removed all the galleries since there were no explained relationship between them and the (confused and unsourced) text. They looked as images added just to decorated the articles. --Attilios (talk) 21:41, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Images 

message: I have to repeat – Really? Sacred geometry is a relationship between the c. 500 BCE pythagorean geometry and c. 1900 CE quantum mechanics.
 by a new user added pseudoscience to the article.
It is referenced with a link to an occult magic shop's website as the source. It is at least some kind of logical fallacy to claim that sacred geometries  or that there is a real relationship between geometry and quantum mechanics. —BoBoMisiu (talk) 21:44, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I've removed it, reverted to an earlier version of the lead. Thanks for bringing this up. Dougweller (talk) 11:19, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Really? Sacred geometry is a relationship between the c. 500 BCE pythagorean geometry and c. 1900 CE quantum mechanics.