Talk:Komondor

message: There are not so much Komondor in the world, but it seems to be a very great dog. Some more information on www.komondor.fr
Mistake: This IS a Komondor.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lynovella (talk • contribs) 09:18, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  more about Komondor 

message: How does it see through all the hair?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.150.134.181 (talk) 11:45, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eyes 

message: This http://arikomondor.com/fci_standard.htm is not the  current Federation Cynologique Internationale Hungarian Standard,
only the Federation Cynologique Internationale,
Warrington (talk) 20:24, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit war 

message: Square in this case, is a dog description term often used for dogs about this proportions, like foxterrier.
http://arikomondor.com/fci_standard.htm FCI-Standard No 53
Dated 13.09.2000 ]</ref> The standard has not changed its general guidelines for decades.
Quote:
The Komondor is large in size and powerfully built. His appealing outward appearance and dignified deportment arouse respect and even fear in the observer. By nature he is not ingratiating. His robust body is covered by matted, corded, throughout dense, long hair. The body, seen sideways, forms a prone rectangle, little deviating from a square . The thickly coated head rises above the body. The tail is carried hanging down with its tip bent upwards, almost horizontal. The coat colour is ivoryHEIGHT AT WITHERS 
Dogs: Minimum 70 cm.
Bitches: Minimum 65 cm. 
WEIGHT 
Dogs: 50 – 60 kg.
Bitches: 40 – 50 kg. 
Warrington (talk) 14:39, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Answer

message: I hate to distract y'all from your measurements, but aren't these animals named after "dog of the Cumans" and is their heritage and introduction to Hungary mentioned?  This seems more interesting to me than the AKC measurement guideline this article is becoming. I'm not sure any of that is notable other than a general description or perhaps a brief section about showdogs of this breed. Does the article on skunks give detailed measurements and standards liek this? ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:06, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I see there is a section at the end of the article. I think it should be moved up. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:37, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Encyclopedia article on this breed

message: I don't see the problem. Also the AKC clearly says: "large, muscular dog with plenty of bone and substance, covered with an unusual, heavy coat of white cords." (italics mine) Squash Racket (talk) 14:37, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you have to accept what AKC says pointing out that the info is according to AKC's standard. BTW is there really a contradiction? Quote: Dogs 27½ inches and up at the withers; bitches 25½ inches and up at the withers. Dogs are approximately 100 pounds and up, bitches, approximately 80 pounds and up at maturity, with plenty of bone and substance.
The best would be probably to find reliable sources about whether there's a difference between Hungarian and American standards. Squash Racket (talk) 15:53, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Relevant [[Komondor]] discussion from Warrington's talk page

message: I don't see what the problem with the last edit was. The appearance description was taken directly from the FCI Hungarian Standard general appearance quote that you yourself put up in this discussion. And additionally the size comments were using the minimums and averages that are consistent with both the AKC and FCI breed standards. It seems like taking wording from a reputable source doesn't seem like trying to bias so that the size isn't the most important thing. Especially since the descriptions from breed standards are formed by experts of the breed. And while you may consider yourself quite knowledgeable or even an expert in the Komondor, that doesn't necessarily make you one. Not that I am trying to say that I am an expert because I would be the first to admit that I am not, I do however believe that taking wording from those who are experts is better than trying to either paraphrase what you have learned, or what you have gotten from the standards. 
Additionally, I feel that bringing up comments again that Quincy is a below breed standard dog is uncalled for, as for one at 29.5 inch that is not below the breed standard and two it just insults an accomplished dog, that you are claiming is poor without ever having met the dog. And while us Americans are proud of Westminster, the reputation of it as a top show is not just an American idea, but it is a reputation that it has gained in the international stage as well, similar to Cruft's. Also if you read the discussion post from the breeder of Quincy herself, the dog is not just accomplished in the American show rings but Internationally as well. 
The truth of the matter is that American Breeder and Hungarian breeders do differ on what attributes are the most important to breed for. It is my understand that size is of the utmost concern to Hungarian breeders, whereas American breeders focus first on health, then temperament and finally size. That doesn't make one better than the other just different. The last posts on size were an attempt to strike a compromise between the two ideologies, such that the minimum size is listed then the average as it makes logical sense to comment in order of increasing magnitude, if there was a maximum height then it would make sense to list that after the average. Also The weights were taken from the Hungarian standards, as oppose to the slightly broader AKC standard. There are other references I have seen that vary in the weights, including a different books on Komondors, one which stated that females should be 60 pounds or higher differing from the low range of Hungarian standards by 28 lb. That being said it seemed like stating that the average was the Hungarian standard .
I am not trying to change things just to bias things or be a pain or just be a troublesome kid as you refered to me earlier, I am just trying to help the article so that it properly reflects the breed and reads well.  I am also trying to present you with logical arguments, and I would appreciate if you were to do the same and refrain from insulting the other posters myself included, through insulting our typos or our grammar (which your has not been perfect either) or trying to belittle us through calling us kids or uninformed.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.121.204.57 (talk) 21:46, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments here

message: Warrington, could you please remove from the discussion page your personal opinions about Quincy as the majority of the comments are misrepresenting the dog as well as insulting. While personal opinions are welcome in these talk pages, a personal attack against Quincy or an Ad hominem attack  are not allowed as stated in the Wiki: talk guidelines. You have also through your language suggested that some of us who are posting are not knowledgeable when it comes to Komondors (i.e. suggesting we have never seen one, etc, which seems silly since if we didn't know the breed well, having not owned or bred the breed that we would care enough to spend time arguing over the representation of the Komondor.) While I can blow off personal attacks it does bother me a great deal to see you insult a dog that you have never met. If you do not think that you should take back your comments, I feel I will have to start a dispute resolution and ask for Wikipedia arbitration on the issue.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Meoconne (talk • contribs) 01:19, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unnecessary Comments 

message: That Quinct dog is not corresponding to the FCI International standard FCI-Standard No 53
Dated 13.09.2000, about body lengh around 104% of height at withers, and Back : Short.  see  http://arikomondor.com/fci_standard.htm  - like many of the dogs presented here do not corespond to this standard requirement  http://clubs.akc.org/kca/theshow.htm.
can not be based on one single and also not typical dog, 
All this is about creating a correct encyclopaedia which (Quincy). Sorry.
Warrington (talk) 12:26, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Facts 

message: One can not write an encyclopaedia and only present the minimum hight of a dog breed, that is misleading, especially when so bad pictures are around - it will only mess up things even more. Average hight is indeed necessary.
Warrington (talk) 22:33, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Average height 

message: It would be nice to mention the other Hungarian breeds, especially other sheep dogs and those with similar characteristics. Pulli Munid, Viksalz, etc. etc. ChildofMidnight (talk) 02:55, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Similar breeds

message: thumb|300px| A Great Dane
In the ratio between length and height, the Great Dane should be square. The male shall not be less than 30 inches (75 cm) at the shoulders, but it is preferable that he be 32 inches or more (>80 cm), providing he is well proportioned to his height. The female shall not be less than 28 inches (70 cm) at the shoulders, but it is preferable that she be 30 inches or more (>75 cm), providing she is well proportioned to her height. Danes under minimum height must be disqualified. 
Warrington (talk) 20:19, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I think noting that the poodle used to have the same corded style of coat is very interesting and notable.  It would make a good addition to the article, as would coverage of other Hungarian sheep dogs and other breeds that are similar or notably related to this animal in some respect. ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:47, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: See also [[Great Dane]]

message: Talk:Komondor#Relevant Komondor discussion from Warrington's talk page. Disagreement whether comments on CH Gillian's Quintessential Quincy are disparaging and should be removed from the main Komondor talk page. 20:26, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thid Person Arbritation  

message: Warrington had asked me to look over this page.  I got a little time only now.  I'm not sure I'm clear on what the problem is and, to be honest, I haven't read everyone's comments.  There was a photo and in my uninformed opinion it looked like a Komondor to me.  I have seen a Komondor a few years ago in Hungary and it was a tall dog, but not anything real huge.  It's head was right at my hip and the wide shape of the head is what struck me the most about this dog.  It seems there's some disagreement regarding which standard of the breed to use.  Warrington argues that, being a Hungarian dog breed, it should be the Hungarian standard.  I somewhat agree, but it seems that other widely used standards could be mentioned alongside the Hungarian one.  Is there some Wikipedia policy on animal standards?  I took a look at hu:Komondor and found a link to the Hungarian standard: http://www.komondorklub.hu/standard.htm  It is the FCI one.  I'm guessing that the Hungarians influenced the FCI standard.  Google now somewhat translates Hungarian, btw.  They say something about preserving the height but not increasing it.  --Stacey Doljack Borsody (talk) 22:57, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Late to comment 

message: Komondors are also VERY good with kids!
All age kids!
they will not race up to them or bite or be agrusive,
Tere GREAT WITH KIDS! From Babies To teens!
I believe you 24.144.14.84 (talk) 03:40, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good With Kids? 

message: Perhaps to resolve the issues about minimum vs average height we could include a section on the AKC breed standard description?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by DrSaturn (talk • contribs) 16:38, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Height issues 

message: They say in the article that the dog in the first picture in the Komondor article is a Best in Show winner of the Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show in 2007. (Removed now) 
But when checking on the top honors of List of Best in Show winners of the Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show, the dog is not there in the top honors list 2007, here the overall Best in Show winner of the Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show was a springer spaniel instead. Nothing here att best of breeds in 2007 either,   The dog had one award, meaning, in this case  actually best of 3 of all the 3 komondors  of only 3 Komondor entries. Best of 3 is not much. It was never a Best in Show winner, was not Best of Breeds in 2007 either, see results here. This picture is missleading. Remove.
Hafspajen (talk) 16:36, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  '''BIS?'''

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thread_title:  External links modified