Talk:Irish initial mutations

message: I have begun moving information from my website at , where I can no longer edit it, to Wikipedia. This information is mine, so there are no copyvio problems. --Angr 21:38, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: In the following sentence:
 Ná cuir an bosca ar an mbord.
mbord is eclipsed.  I was unable to find an explanation of why that's the case.  Does the "ar an" combination trigger the eclipsis or is there some other rule not outlined in the eclipsis section of the article?  Help will be much appreciated.--204.193.71.8 20:34, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: In Connacht and Munster, most preposition + singular definite article combinations trigger eclipsis. See Irish initial mutations#Dative singular nouns after the definite article. --Angr/ 20:45, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, I missed that section.  Thanks much!--204.193.71.8 20:52, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Eclipsis

message: In Pedersen's A concise comparative Celtic Grammar (1961) p.60 line 5 for the word <slat> 'rod' is given Arran dialect forms with lenited as hlat and "with the article  ", and then the Donegal dialect's equivalent forms with lat and tlat. I don't see any such mutations in this article - is this correspondence  sl - hl - tl  seen in other dialects? Examples? It strikes me as quite puzzling if one wished to explain where the t in tl- comes from. Jakob37 13:58, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The "l" has nothing to do with it. /h/ is the usual lenition of /s/, and /t/ is an exceptional lenition of /s/ after the definite article an (see Irish initial mutations#After proclitics, toward the bottom of the subsection After the definite article. In the orthography, /hlat/ is spelled shlat and /tlat is spelled tslat. —Angr 14:37, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting! Are there other initial sounds which undergo "exceptional lenitions"? With s , it seems to be a case (in terms of generative phonology) of the preceding nasal (of the article) containing a stop feature which spreads to the s. Jakob37 04:00, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Except that it only applies when lenition would be expected. I'm pretty much convinced (and have published a paper to this effect) that the Celtic initial mutations cannot be explained by means of phonological rules or constraints at all; rather, they are entirely morphological phenomena. —Angr 05:31, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: May I have a reference to your paper? (altho finding it here in Taiwan may be another matter...)Jakob37 09:59, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  unusual mutuation in Northern dialects 

message: These are not listed in the article. I would add them myself but I don't have my books with me and I'm not sure about the corrct IPA symbols. ComhairleContaeThirnanOg (talk) 13:04, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lenition of emphatic N and L 

message: In Munster I believe there is evidence for nasalization of /s/ to /z/, as Sasana > i zSasana. Should this be described in this article? -- Evertype·✆ 12:59, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure, if you got a source for it. It can go in Munster Irish, too. Aɴɢʀ (talk) 09:35, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: This seems to be confined to the dialect of Cape Clear Island off the southern coast of County Cork.  See Gaeilge Chléire in the series An Teanga Bheo, © 2003 Institiúid Teangeolaíochta Éireann, § 2.11, pp. 10-11.  Kostaki mou (talk) 04:04, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  S > Z 

message: The current article text has the following on séimhiú, among other things:
#* → 
#* → 
All the other slender (or palatalized) consonants that undergo séimhiú (without being deleted) change into other palatal(ized) sounds.
Also, according to several sources, among which http://nualeargais.ie/gnag/lenition.htm, both broad and slender t change into h.
So, could there be an error in the list? And should the items quoted above be changed into:
#* → 
#* → ?
Thanks for the answer of a knowledgeable person!Redav (talk) 23:53, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: There is a slight difference. As with all broad/slender prononciation changes - the slender th is pronounced with the back of the tongue closer to the roof of the mouth, making more of a /hʲ/ sound, while the tongue drops for the broad th, making a /h/ sound. In spoken language they sound almost identical I guess, but they are formed slightly differently, and in isolation you can hear that difference. 2001:861:5700:4370:D037:A416:B2AD:4014 (talk) 19:56, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible error in list on séimhiú 

message: This section is missing clarification and examples, could someone add some? The link, "Blocked Lenition" gives examples that already fall into other categories on this article, or in languages other than Irish. 2001:861:5700:4370:D037:A416:B2AD:4014 (talk) 19:52, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Examples under "In modifier + head constructions"