Talk:Tsargrad

message: Do we really need all the names in all the languages listed in the very first sentence of the article? Purely stylistically too much clutter. I would restructure the first sentence, leaving perhaps Old Church Slavonic or "Old Chruch Slavonic" there only and saying that written and sounds similarly in other Slavic languages. Later in the text, we could list all names if necessary. I just want to suggest this first, to see if anyone objects. I know striking down names in languages often touch very many raw nerves, and I do it without proposing only when I am absolutely positive that doing so is better for the article. Objections to this change? If anyone wants to do it, you're welcome of course. --Irpen 05:33, July 23, 2005 (UTC)
:Support. --Ghirlandajo 08:25, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Strongly oppose deleting important article. --Ghirlandajo 07:33, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: All these names in the first sentence?

message: I have already merged the content under the Tsargrad to Istanbul (Etymology) , I want to add an redirect link to Istanbul (Etymology) from Tsargrad, are you o.k.--OttomanReference 03:38, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would prefer the other way. Are you at POV forks again? --Ghirla -трёп- 06:59, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Constantinople (Etymology)]] 

message: I am not sure what citation Hectorian is requesting... Not only in the medieval vernacular but even today in Bulgarian and Russian (and perhaps in all Slavic languages) the word tsar has very wide meaning — 'ruler of a state'.  Even in todays Slavic languages many of the rulers who do not possess official title (such as the rulers of antient Greek states, Persia, Macedonia and many other states) are tsars. The Bulgarian folk tales always use the word tsar for the rulers of some state. The following is a citation from st. Sophronius of Vratsa who is considered to be the first writer in modern Bulgarian language (early 18th century): And also the Bayazid, tsar of the turks, sheding a lot of blood of christians and being brutal to the people, was locked and imprisoned in an iron cage for ever lasting execration of him. The same writer uses the word tsar even for the Pharaons of Egypt (since in the Bible the word Pharaon is not used as a title, but as a personal name): Tsar Pharaon showed arrogance and boldly thought "I don't know a Lord". Of course this doesn't mean that the word sultan was not known to the people as the official title of the rulers in Tsargrad.  It should be noted however that the word sultan was used also for some of the local administrators in the Empire: They were arrested by the sultan of that place and were imprisoned and their animals were confiscated (in this citation that place means Edirne). --Zinoviev 14:04, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The thing is explained in great detail in the article tsar. BTW, I removed the sentence stating that "tsar" meant "independent monarch". It did come to mean a monarch, (after having meant "emperor" for some time) but it is unclear when that change occurred, and it appeared much later than the name Tsargrad - somewhere in the 18th or 19th centuries, after Paisius of Hilendar, who still uses "tsar" as a synonym of emperor or Caesar, distinguishing it from "kral" as a synonym of "king", in his list of Bulgarian monarchs. The designation "tsar" for the sultan could have appeared much earlier, too. The position of the sultan as a supreme ruler and a self-appointed successor of the Byzantine emperor could have caused people to call him tsar (i.e. "emperor"). So it's better not to posit a particular meaning for "tsar" in this case, not until sources are found. --194.145.161.227 11:18, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Quote from Ottoman dynasty: "When Mehmed II seized Constantinople on May 29, 1453, he claimed the title Emperor of the Roman Empire and protector of Orthodox Christianity. He appointed the Patriarch of Constantinople Gennadius Scholarius, whom he protected and whose stature he elevated into leader of all the Eastern Orthodox Christians. As emperor of the Romans he laid claim to all Roman territories..." --194.145.161.227 11:22, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citation needed? 

message: (This proposal was first made on Talk:Etymology of Istanbul, together with a proposal to rename Etymology of Istanbul to Names of Istanbul.
;Rationale:
Most of the content has already been merged, and the redirection has been proposed for a long time, but hasn't been performed apparently due to the resistance of the main contributor to the Tsargrad page (see Talk:Tsargrad. Given the current scope of the "Etymology"/"Names of Istanbul" page as it has now developed, I can see no reason for a separate Tsargrad page. It's not like the Constantinople page, which actually treats a special section of the history of the city itself; rather, it just presents one of the many names and its historical usage. Besides, its spelling alternants Tsarigrad, Czargrad etc. already redirect there and not to the other page, which is confusing to say the least. (this has been changed in the meantime)
;Support:
*as proposed by me: Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:20, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Redirect [[Tsargrad]] to [[Names of Istanbul]] (formerly [[Etymology of Istanbul]]) 

message: How can you include the pronunciation of a dead language like Old Church Slavonic?? It's mere speculation as nobody really knows how it actually sounded. Xyboi 03:03, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, well. What do you think we have historical linguistics for? But I agree it's kind of strange to use IPA here, and I'm not sure about how mainstream this transcription is. I'll move it to the talk page until it's sourced. --194.145.161.227 19:58, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I am a historical linguist. Of course we know things about OCS phonology, but transcriptions as detailed as IPA are nonsense. Xyboi 23:05, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It can be done phonetically, but not phonemically, in IPA or not. 93.103.139.149 (talk) 13:45, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  IPA 

message: "At the same time the historic Slavonic names of the city were Константинь градъ (Old Church Slavonic ; Church Slavonic ) and Константиноградъ ()."
--194.145.161.227 20:04, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  IPAs to be sourced