Talk:Christoph Schönborn

message: He should be removed from the list of papabili, simply because choosing someone of noble origin will be unlikely to happen, it would seem to the world to be a setup.
:Why shouldn't a noble be elected pope? Your opinion is very discriminating against nobles. There is no doubt Schönborn is papabile, he is frequently discussed in the press. anon1 03:37, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: His Noble Roots

message: Since this dispute appears to be settled then, I remove the accuracy warning. FormerlyUnregisteredUser 17:56, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Dispute settled

message: In 1945, the German era in east-central Europe ended with the Beneš Decrees and other measures expelling linguistically and culturally German people, who had been overwhelmingly pro-Nazi, from Czechoslovakia and Poland. In the Czech Republic today, people likely even to know German are mostly over 70.
With the expulsion of the "Sudeten" Germans from Czechia, the German names of places in the country have mostly been forgotten — not merely in the Czech Republic, but by most people even in adjacent parts of Germany and Austria. To refer to the Cardinal’s native Litoměřice as German "Leitmeritz", which you won’t find on most maps, is to pander to the well-organized lobby in Austria and German Bavaria of Sudeten irredentists — a particular sect of neo-Nazis (now often 3rd-generation descendants) who seem to think that the expulsions were temporary and that the Untermenschen of those places will eventually have to accept the re-imposition on them of their rightful Herrschaften.
Similarly, to refer to "Bohemia" is not to use an innocent translation of Czech Čechy (or Země české). It evokes a supposedly golden era featuring a nationhood called, in German, a Böhm — a bilingual or diglossic Austro-Hungarian subject, politically Catholic and kaisertreu (loyal to the Emperor) whose literary language was standard German, and whose daily colloquial idiom was (almost indifferently) subliterary Kuchelböhmisch Czech or a German broad dialect of the Austro-Bavarian type.
The Cardinal is of "Sudeten German" background, born in Litoměřice and like many of his ethnicity forced to flee with his parents to Austria. If (without heavily qualifying it with Czech = "internationally valid" equivalents) you use the vocabulary of the Sudeten advocates, you will wittingly or unwittingly further the agenda of this extremely unworthy lobby.82.44.62.97 10:06, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: No Sudetendeutsch lobbying, please

message: A recent article in the Catholic newspaper, The Universe, stated that Cardinal Schönborn was the frontrunner to succeed Cardinal Levada as Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith, leaving Levada to take over from the aging Cardinal Egan in NY. Can anyone expound on this? If so, is it worth including in the article?
I hadn't heard that, but to be candid, I was surprised Levada got it over Schonborn in the first place.  Shows how much I know, I guess.  I would assume Schonborn is number one to take over, but then, I was wrong the first time.--Morsefan 21:22, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: New Job?

message: The article claims that Schönborn is in Austria "popularly known as "The Healer"". Sorry, I am Austrian, but to me this popular nickname is totally unknown. I ask for the German translation ("Heiler"? Or even "Heiland"?!) and for a source. --Vheissu (talk) 00:25, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: "The Healer"

message: I have noticed some unusual allegations about Cardinal Schönborn having participated in Masonic rituals. This could maybe be mentioned in the article if better sources can  be found. [kreuz.net/article.9768.html] ADM (talk) 04:43, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Masonic allegations

message: This article says:
: 
:: Schönborn has said that the two approaches of Karl Rahner and Hans Urs von Balthasar are close and different at the same time, being mutually complementary.Between Rahner and Balthasar
: 
Without some context, that is incomprehensible.  Who are Rahner and Balthasar?  Approaches to what?  Are they soccer coaches with different theories of strategy on the field?  Choir directors whose styles differ?  Politicians with different ideologies?  Scientists with differing theories of the history of one of the moons orbiting Saturn?  Investment advisers with differing ideas of what the market will do?
: 
OK, you can click on their names and find out something, but the paragraph should be more self-contained than that. Michael Hardy (talk) 17:41, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rahner and Balthasar? 

message: Yesterday I added a subsection about Schönborn's response to the Williamson and Wagner controversies. Shortly after that Mocctur removed the info about the Williamson controversy, with the edit summary "one remark on an obscure foreign bishop dosn't deserve such WP:WEIGHT in Schönborn's biography."
I disagree with this removal and the rationale given for it, and would like to start a discussion on this issue here. Richard Williamson could hardly be characterized as an "obscure foreign bishop". The lifting of his excommunication in January 2009 generated a worldwide furor, the effects of which are still being felt today. It also led to a significant crisis for the Catholic Church in Germany and Austria, because of the particular sensitivity to the issue of the Holocaust denial there. The Wagner appointment in Linz, which occurred several days later, compounded this crisis in Austria especially.  Schönborn's response to the Williamson controversy was hardly just "one remark", but rather a part of a significant and highly public effort to mitigate the consequences of the crisis. This response is very much remembered today. 
As a March 2013 Catholic Herald article  says "January saw the media storm over Pope Benedict’s decision to lift the excommunications hanging over Lefebvrist bishops, including the controversial Holocaust-denying Bishop Richard Williamson. The Williamson affair shook the Austrian Church. The slow haemorrhaging of Austrian Catholics which had gone on for years suddenly turned into a torrent. [emph. added]  In order to make peace, Cardinal Schönborn publicly criticised the Pope’s decision and joined a campaign urging Catholics to create T-shirts with slogans on why they were staying in the Church despite what was happening." The same article mentions that the Williamson and Wagner controversies de facto conflated into a single crisis for the Catholic Church in Austria. 
Similarly, this Feb 2009 article  in The Tablet discusses in detail the effect of the Williamson/Wagner crisis in Austria and Schönborn's response to this crisis. 
This New York Times Feb 2009 article deals with the worldwide affects of the Williamson controversy, and the effect of this controversy, in combination with the Wagner controversy, on Austria in particular: "Austria, a majority-Catholic country with a complicated Nazi past, had been reeling from the pope’s revocation of the excommunication of four schismatic bishops from the ultraconservative Society of St. Pius X, including Bishop Richard Williamson, who has denied the existence of the Nazi gas chambers as well as the scale and genocidal intent of the Holocaust. While that firestorm was still raging, Benedict ignited another by appointing the Rev. Gerhard Maria Wagner, known for his Katrina comment and for saying that homosexuality was curable, as the auxiliary bishop of Linz." 
Quite a few other news sources mention that Schönborn's response to the Williamson controversy was notable and significant.  
E.g. National Catholic Reporter wrote in Feb 2009:"In that regard, one telling development is the number of senior churchmen who have broken the informal taboo on criticism of the Holy See. For example, Cardinal Christoph Schönborn of Vienna, Austria, said: "There must be also a certain criticism of the Vatican's staff practice, which obviously did not examine the matter carefully." Given that Schönborn was a key supporter of Benedict XVI in the conclave of 2005, and that he did his post-doctoral work under then-Fr. Joseph Ratzinger at the University of Regensburg in the 1970s, one can safely assume that his remarks are not motivated by anti-papal animus."  
A February 17 article "Austrian bishops tend to controversies unsettling their flock" by the Catholic News Agency  deals specifically with the fallout from the Williamson/Wagner controversies in Austria, and the response to it by the Austrian bishops, led by Schönborn. The opening paragraph there reads: "The diocesan bishops of Austria have published a pastoral letter responding to the two controversies roiling the local Church over the past several weeks: the scandal surrounding Bishop Richard Williamson and the appointment of Fr. Gerhard Maria Wagner as an auxiliary bishop of the Diocese of Linz." 
An article in The Tablet indicates Schönborn's response to this crisis was much more than "one single remark": 
"Confronted shortly afterwards with the announcement of the appointment as auxiliary bishop in Linz of Gerhard Maria Wagner, who claims that Hurricane Katrina was divine retribution for the sins of New Orleans' homosexuals and abortionists, Cardinal Schönborn, who is Archbishop of Vienna,  published a moving and unambiguous "Word of Comfort and Encouragement" to the priests and church employees in his diocese in his monthly newsletter, Thema Kirche.
"I can imagine that many of you don't feel too good at the moment. Neither do I," he wrote. "Once again we are confronted with occurrences that cause grief and indignation. They make us shake our heads and seem incomprehensible. And once again the Church has been made to look stupid and so have we. And again we ask, ‘Is this really necessary? Have we deserved this? Are we to be spared nothing?' At a time when the Church should really be dealing with the crucial worries that face people today such as the financial crisis and unemployment, it is confronted with debates about a small group of people who refuse to recognise the Second Vatican Council, or at least crucial parts of it, who think the Pope and the Church are on the wrong path and who consider themselves as the true Catholic Church. And on top of that we are now faced with the uproar concerning the new auxiliary in Linz. This is all a bit much and can give rise to a feeling of hopelessness."
 
In June 2009 Schönborn lead a special meeting of the Austrian bishops with the pope to discuss the crisis: "According to various news reports, the delegation, led by Cardinal Christoph Schonborn of Vienna, met with the Pope to discuss a variety of problems assailing the Church in Austria, especially the open rebellion of clergy in the Diocese of Linz that took place earlier this year after the Vatican appointed a traditional Catholic as auxiliary bishop . The problems in Linz began in early 2009 when Pope Benedict lifted the excommunication of the controversial Bishop Richard Williamson of the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX), a man who caused an international uproar when he denied the Holocaust in a television appearance." 
This 2009 article in the Irish Independent said: "Although Williamson has been removed from the head of his abbey in Argentina by his Religious Order, and Wagner's appointment shelved, Benedict's mistakes and inactivity have rekindled calls around the global Church for a more consultative 'People's Church'.This has manifest itself most prominently in Austria, where Cardinal Christoph Schonborn of Vienna, after a six-hour emergency meeting of the Episcopal Conference, published a letter criticising the Vatican's lack of communication, especially for nomination of bishops."
Schönborn's response to the Williamson controversy is often being mentioned in the press even now, years after the event itself. E.g. here "in 2009 he criticized the pope’s lifting of an excommunication order on Bishop Richard Williamson, a Holocaust denier, of the traditionalist Society of St. Pius X.", here, etc.
I don't know German, but even a cursory googlenews search shows that there has been plenty of coverage, over an extended period of time, of Schönborn's response to the Williamson and Wagner controversies in German and Austrian press. (here are a few sample links, ,,,), etc.
So, IMHO, the inclusion of information about Schönborn's response to the Williamson controversy is amply justified. Nsk92 (talk) 15:05, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Richard Williamson (bishop)|Richard Williamson]] controversy 

message: I removed the noble titles when speaking of him personally. Noble titles or honorifics (like von) do not exist in Austria anymore. As he is an Austrian citizen they should not be used. The fact that he is of noble descent is treated in the article. Unless there is sourced evidence that he is generally known by his comital title (I know some Austrians of noble descent still use titles and honorifics in some contexts) these should not be included in his titles and styles. I noticed this was extensively discussed on this page some years ago but the titulature somehow got back in earlier this year. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 17:27, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I suggest that the entire section about titles and styles be removed. It's not really useful anymore. Also not usual to include such a section for as prelate of the RC Church I think. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 19:16, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  His noble titles 

message: It's noted in other sources that Gerhard Wagner himself requested withdrawal of his appointment as a bishop.  As far as I know, he continued as a priest of the diocese of Linz, despite not becoming auxiliary bishop there.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.20 (talk) 15:27, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gerhard Wagner controversy 

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message: The introduction to this article mentions that he is well liked by many factions in the Church, "except those that are actually catholic". I don't quite understand this line, and wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something before I removed it. The citation given after this clause mentions nothing of the sort. Should this statement be removed? Apologies if this didn't warranted it's own heading here. - Fireballs619 (talk) 16:27, 28 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Except those who are actually Catholic 

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