Talk:List of Saint Thomas Christians

message: While many people want to see positive role models here, I don't think you can restrict list to just that. Someone just tried to insert a criminal. I don't know whether it was valid or not, but if there is an article, you can't really keep him off! The list is for "notables" - we cannot "chose." Student7 (talk) 12:56, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Restriction of list

message: There is an article for Notables in “List of Syrian Malabar Nasranis” where we can enter the names with or without their photographs, It is not a good idea for the editors to enter their favourite names in as many articles as possible. I wish that all of us agree to enter the names of Nasrani Notables only in the article “List of Syrian Malabar Nasranis” and remove their names and photographs from other related articles. It is also better not to give more importance to one person than the others. I suggest that the photographs may be put closer to their names instead of putting on the top.  Are we not all equal?Neduvelilmathew (talk) 08:41, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Notables

message: 117.196.133.6 on March 21 @13.33 replaced deleted images on Syrian Malabar Nasrani stating that there is nothing wrong in showing some important people in the main page. I have a few questions.
# Who decides the important people among Syrian Malabar Nasrani? 
# About 100 important people are in the List of Syrian Malabar Nasranis. Are we expected to show all their photos on the main page, Syrian Malabar Nasrani? 
There need an agreement among the editors before before dispute arises, Neduvelilmathew (talk) 04:37, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Is there something wrong?

message: The persons mentioned under the title List of Syrian Malabar Nasranis are largely Syrian Christians belonging to other denominations of Syrian Christianity. In addition there is a section titled Mar Thomas which is not acceptable. If that is the case we need a separate section for late Archbishops too. I am sure the Jacobites will want something similar. This article contains the list of prominent Syrian Catholics who were in full communion with the Church of Rome.
Like someone already pointed out there is an increased tendency to include random individuals in the list. Living Personalities should not be included in the list.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Devasuran (talk • contribs) 04:06, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with the above suggestion. There is a section titled Mar Thomas. Most probably this is about Mar Thoma people, if so, then the list given is wrong. In fact it is an unnecessary addition. Action:- Removed.Neduvelilmathew (talk) 16:37, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: No merger

message: I am appalled by the sight of so many entries with Polachirakal name. The designations these people they hold may be very important but IMHO does not deserve to be here. If we start to include the names of the chairman of every muncipality or presidents of every panchayat the list is going to be endless. I am removing these names. Devasuran (talk) 14:23, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is with so many Polachirakal 

message: #Please do not remove photographs without discussions, especially if they were included by some one else. Be courteous.
#This article is only a list and if you want to write more about the person, please write an article. Please note that an article on Chalakuzhy Paulose Mathen already exists in Wikipedia.
#All the names that appear on this page are that of important people. So please keep it in alphabetical order. Action: Reverted.Neduvelilmathew (talk) 18:38, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: 69,181,247,146, Chalakuzhy 

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thread_title: File:Anna chandy judge.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: Wikipedia editors are mistaken to consider Saint Thomas Christians as people who believe in a particular religion. This is not true. Saint Thomas Christians is an ethnic/caste group that traditionally followed one of several varieties of Christianity. Just as Ashkenazy Jews may not necessarily believe in Judaism, and a large number are atheists, a large number STC may not believe in Christianity. However they are still socially classified as Saint Thomas Christians and have historically been given caste privileges regardless of belief. Therefore the requirement that people listed must self-identify as Christian is unfounded. A.K. Antony, E Sudarshan, etc., are part of this ethnic group despite their religious beliefs. Josslined (talk) 21:31, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: No. As with caste, unless we have sources showing that they have self-identified (if living) then we err on the side of caution. "Ethnic group" is a woolly term. - Sitush (talk) 06:29, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

text: Or you could just read WP:BLP and WP:V. That other articles may not comply with our policies is not a reason for this one to do the same. I don't appreciate your fake edit summaries, by the way, such as . - Sitush (talk) 09:29, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Saint Thomas Christian as ethnic group not a religion

message: I have tried to engage in a discussion with Sitush, with no avail (See above section). 
I would like to request 3rd party to rule on the following points: 
'1. Persons that are of Syrian Christian or STC descent are to be included in the the list, despite religious belief
'2. The text of the article should make it clear that the article include people who descend from the STC ethnic group, regardless of belief. 
I am of course happy for standard criteria for referencing is used.
Reasons for the above
1. Saint Thomas Christianity is a generally endogamous group, with shared culture and identity,  and satisfy the criteria for an ethnic group:   I appreciate Sitush claims ethnicity is not a a valid classification of people, or as he says it is a 'woolly term'. This is however false, since ethnicity is a standard sociological classification. Further, membership of the community is used for legal purposes (inheritance law, etc), regardless of belief.  I believe this is rather obvious prima facie ( a bit like 2+2=2), and don't wish to elaborate further, unless required.
2. Members of Saint Thomas Christianity don't uniformly subscribe to the same set of religious beliefs currently or historically. Including only persons that members to self state that they subscribe to commonly accepted modern Christian dogma is an erasure of their ethnic identity. 
 
Also, I would like to request I don't wish to engage further with Sitush, since I don't feel comfortable being subject to his personal attacks and veiled threats (posting on my talk page about discretionary sanctions on articles regarding the Indian subcontinent- I love how wikipedia thinks all articles regarding 1/5th of the world's population, broadly interpreted, should be subject to discretionary sanctions- what a colonial hangover ). 
Josslined (talk) 21:25, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: So you have got the neutral third party opinion that you said would resolve the dispute but because that opinion does not accord with your own you don't accept it?That's typical for Wikipedia's caste articles but bizarre nonetheless. Forget for a moment what might be said at any other WP article - WP itself is not a reliable source - and just concentrate on the principles of how we treat matters relating to living people. WP:BLP demands that we err on the side of caution when making personal statements about such people. Whether religion or ethnicity, in the melting pot that is our current world, a claim to STC status is inherently up to the individual and thus personal. We don't show it unless they claim it. - Sitush (talk) 02:00, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

text: I'm frankly surprised that the copy-pasted material from ethnoreligious group has not again clarified the matter. As cited, "whose members are also unified by a common religious background"; thus, the religious importance of the group's identity is again supported by the evidence. Regarding the question on reliable sources, I would recommend for this topic a strong secondary source on the subject of STC. I see a trend in presenting here broad information about ethnic groups, but the conjectures being made are original research. If you would like any further opinions, you can always request an RfC. Best regards.--MarshalN20 ✉🕊 02:21, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

text: Einstein is dead - WP:BLP does not apply to people who are long dead (the clue is in the policy name). I don't know how to make this any more clear to you but Wikipedia has policies and it is expected that contributors follow them. - Sitush (talk) 16:21, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  If you bothered to read the above discussion, you would have realised the point I raised for 3rd party opinion was on whether belief in Christianity was required to be classified as a Saint Thomas Christian. I haven't made any points regarding whether the person is alive or dead. I want this point to be first clarified.Josslined (talk) 00:39, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request for Third Party Resolution

message: Please read User:Sitush/Common#Castelists before adding people to this article. R.COutlander07@talk 06:04, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proper sourcing