Talk:C++/Archive 5

message: I reverted two minor changes to the "Hello, World" program:
* Reverted the comment "provided to adhere to the standard" - there is already a footnote about the standards conformance, and I think it's cleaner to indicate in the code what the header provides, rather than why it's needed. The current version ("provides std::ostream, std::endl") is also consistent with the comment above ("provides std::cout")
* Removed the comment about "//" denoting a comment. I guess this would be fine, but let's discuss here before changing the article.
The "Hello, World" section is (for some reason) very contentious, so any change should be discussed before we do it. ATren 15:06, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There's no need to get anything rubberstamped. Every editor is free to either discuss changes first, here, and try to obtain consensus, or go ahead and make changes without consensus, but don't be surprised if those edits are reverted. The fact is that various changes have been discussed extensively, and the current consensus version reflects that. SheffieldSteel 22:35, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent changes to "Hello, World" section 

message: Someone has recently changed the code to remove std:: prefixes and add "using namespace std;" to the hello world program. I believe there was weak consensus that using namespace std; was inappropriate (that's my view, as well as Xerxesnine's) so I've reverted it, but perhaps this warrants more discussion.
My view is that experts such as Bjarne Stroustrup and Herb Sutter (and probably others) have advised against using this construct in all but the most specialized cases, e.g. porting a large project from the pre-namespace days. I don't think a 5-line "hello, world" should use a blunt tool that basically disables a core language feature (namespaces) and which several prominent experts advise should only be used for backwards compatibility with old code. I've yet to find an expert who advocates "using namespace std;" for general use. I'd be curious to hear others' views on this matter... ATren 13:54, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortunately, I learned with "using namespace std;" because I knew no better... It wasn't until quite awhile after I learned C++ that I found out all of the problems associated with using that.  I've had to fight an uphill battle ever since against my urge to use this, but now I only infrequently find myself thinking about doing so... that said, I think that we should not be exemplifying things which will (often) have to be unlearned, especially in a "Hello, World!" example.  A note could always be added (with a link to another section discussing namespaces, possibly?) to the effect that the std:: is clarifying the namespace and that there are alternate ways of doing the same thing (i.e. using std::cout;...).  I do not advocate changing the helloworld example, but for people who are used to seeing it with the "using namespace std;" I think there should be a note to that effect somewhere in the general vicinity... Maybe it will catch someone before they end up like me. — EtherealFlaim 08:30, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  using namespace std 

message: please make it a link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLR_parser)
Thank you for your suggestion. When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes.  Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the Edit this page link at the top. The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes — they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills.  New contributors are always welcome. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to).   --Yamla 18:32, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  GLR parser is referenced in the article but it is not a link to the GLR parser page on Wikioedia 

message: Belem tower 09:28, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not really, no.  I mean, millions of lines of code and literally thousands of programs have been written in C++.  --Yamla 13:08, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Exactly, take a look at google's results to see how many. --h2g2bob (talk) 21:53, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Current usage of the language 

message: Belem tower 09:28, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No.  This would depend on the compilers and is too platform-specific.  --Yamla 13:09, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Size of executables compared with C