Wikipedia talk:WikiProject James Bond/Archive 1

message: Since we already have favorite Bond, favorite Villain, and favorite film, shouldn't we also have favorite Bond Girl? El Greco 19:31, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Members Info 

message: I've added the project banner to all remaining book articles that hadn't already had one added. I also added it to James Bond Jr., the TV series. Incidentally that article uses a "nested" format for multiple project banners that a) is awful and b) doesn't make sense in the coding. Since a number of Bond articles have multiple wikiprojects attached to them, we should be prepared for the "nesting monster" to start showing up elsewhere, too. 23skidoo 22:38, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Banner placement 

message: What if any relationship does the project anticipate having with Portal:James Bond? John Carter 00:02, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think both could actually help each other out. El Greco (talk • contribs) 00:07, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Portal 

message: It is important that all articles over WP: James Bond are all importance tagged and they are all standard, eg. GoldenEye (film) is high so all other Bond films should be High.  The problem is which ones should they go in.
 Consensus for Importance Tags
Article Type                                             	Special Windler             	El Greco &Cliff Smith            	John Carter                       	23skidoo                                               	Ganfon                                               	ColdFusion650
James Bond                                               	Top                         	Top                              	Top                               	Top                                                    	Top                                                  	Top
Important James Bond articles  eg. JB (films), JB (books)	Top                         	Top                              	Top                               	Top                                                    	Top                                                  	Top
EON Films                                                	High                        	Top                              	Top                               	Mid to Top depending on film                           	Mid                                                  	Top
Ian Fleming Books                                        	High                        	High                             	High                              	Mid to Top depending on book                           	High to Top Depending on the book                    	High
Unofficial Films (parodies, etc.)                        	Mid                         	Top                              	Mid                               	Mid                                                    	Low                                                  	Mid
Bond Producers                                           	Mid                         	??                               	Mid                               	Mid (but Top for Broccolli and Saltzman)               	Mid                                                  	Mid
Authorised Books  (other than Fleming)                   	Mid                         	High                             	High                              	Mid to High depending on book                          	Mid                                                  	High
Unoffical Books                                          	Low                         	Mid                              	Low                               	Low to Mid depending on book                           	Low                                                  	Low
007 Actors (6)                                           	High                        	High                             	High                              	High to Top depending on actor                         	Top for all but Lazenby and Dalton, who should be mid	High
Main Bond Girls                                          	Mid                         	High                             	High                              	Mid to High depending on character                     	High                                                 	Mid
Secondary Bond Girls                                     	Low                         	Mid                              	Mid (with possible exceptions)    	Low to High depending on character                     	Low                                                  	Low
Main Bond Villains                                       	Mid                         	High                             	High                              	Mid to Top depending on character                      	High to Top depending on villain                     	High
Main Recurring Characters  eg. M or Felix but not Tanner 	Mid                         	High                             	High                              	Low to High depending on character                     	High for Felix, Mid for most others                  	High
Secondary Recurring                                      	Low                         	High                             	Mid                               	Low to Mid depending on character                      	Low                                                  	
Lists of Henchmen  & Allies by film                      	Low                         	Low                              	Low                               	Low                                                    	Low                                                  	Low
Bond Songs                                               	Low  except James Bond theme	??                               	Low (maybe excepting "Goldfinger")	Low to High depending on song                          	Low                                                  	Low
Bond Albums                                              	Low                         	??                               	Low                               	Low to Mid                                             	Low                                                  	Low
Other Bond cast  eg Judi Dench or Halle Berry            	Don't have Them at All      	??Don't belong here (Cliff smith)	Low                               	High for Dench and other recurring; Low to Mid others  	High for Dench, Bernard Lee, Low for others          	Mid for Dench, none for others
Bond Crew Members                                        	Low                         	??Low (Cliff smith)              	Low                               	Low to High depending on individual (Peter Lamont high)	Low                                                  	Low
I think this should be in the talk page to get some sort of consensus, so I moved it to the talk page. Here's my version:
*Top
**James Bond, and main pages such as JB (films including Never Say Never Again)
**Ian Fleming
*High
**Ian Fleming Novels
**James Bond Novels (not including Young Bond, etc.)
**Official James Bond Actors (Sean Connery, George Lazenby, Roger Moore, Timothy Dalton, Pierce Brosnan, Daniel Craig) 
**Main Villains (such as Blofeld and Auric Goldfinger)
**Main Girls (Honey Ryder, Christmas Jones, Vesper Lynd, Tracy Bond) - Bond girls that have done more than just sleep with Bond.
**Recurring Characters (M, Felix Leiter, Q, Money Penny)
*Mid
**Other Novels (Young Bond, etc.)
**Unofficial Films (the two Casino Royale parodies)
**James Bond Jr.
**Unofficial James Bond Actors (Barry Nelson, Peter Sellers)
*Low
**Henchmen (lists)
**Secondary Girls (such as Ruby Bartlett or Solange) - Bond girls that are well, just there
**Allies (lists)
**All Other Bond Articles
El Greco (talk • contribs) 00:44, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, a possible alternate format. Maybe, like Wikipedia:WikiProject Novels, we could create a page where we could, when we're done with the basics here, go item by item for which articles should be in either "Top" or "High" importance. The Mid and Low importance articles can probably be "categorize" much less controversially, based on the guidelines proposed above. John Carter 14:29, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Importance Tags 

message: Guys, I'd just like to say that I started this project only two days ago, and look at it.  I love the effort everybody is pouring into this thing.  I can't wait till I get some more time on my hands to really gid in to this, but this is looking like one terrific Wikiproject.  Keep up the good work  Ganfon 19:23, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Way to Go 

message: Someone has changed the trivia sections of the bond films to Comentary.  It not supposed to happen, trivia should be deleted or re-integrated into the article
eg.
Useless Trivia (should be deleted)
:From 'From Russia with Love' Trivia Section
Bond's Russia scenes with M and Q are played with none of the tenseness of their meetings in later 007 films, where the intelligence chief and equipment officer would show notable frustration with his flippancy. In fact, M is charmed by the idea of Bond using his fondness for women as a tool, specifically to get the LEKTOR decoder. 
Important Trivia (should be kept)
:From 'From Russia with Love' Trivia Section
Alfred Hitchcock was originally considered as director for the film version in 1958, with Bond to be played by Cary Grant and a possible return to the screen for Grace Kelly as Tatiana Romanova, but the deals fell through when Vertigo performed badly at the box office. The helicopter scene in From Russia with Love mimics the cropduster scene from the film Hitchcock did instead in North by Northwest. 
::That could be put in the production section (it needs citation though).
Half-Important Trivia (should be kept unless it has no-where to go, then delete it)
:From 'From Russia with Love' Trivia Section
Reportedly, author and James Bond creator Ian Fleming makes a cameo in the Istanbul train scene (following Bond's stealing the LEKTOR decoder), standing outside on the right of the train, wearing grey trousers and a white sweater; some sources deny Fleming's appearance. 
:: if that can be found a place in the article then put it there, but if it can't, delete.
PS:Thats my opinion and may vary from others
SpecialWindler 03:58, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trivia 

message: There are alot of actor/actress articles in The Articles but i dont think all the articles should be in there (eg. Halle Berry, Judi Dench, Gert Frobe), what do they really have to do with James Bond.  There should only be 6 actors in the Wiki Project James Bond (SC,GL,RM,TD,PB,DC).  So the record is clear - Christmas Jones is in, but Denise Richards is not.  You Know My Name (song) is but Chris Cornell isnt. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by SpecialWindler (talk • contribs) 02:17, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Personally, I disagree. Granted, they may not be overwhelming important to the project, but we may often be the people most likely to add images to certain articles, particularly of actors from the films. In at least that way, we would be able to improve those articles fairly easily as well. Also, frankly, the more articles we have, the more likely we are to get more members, as our "content list" will be more impressive. That isn't to say that we will necessarily as a project focusing a lot of attention on them, but that little attention may well be more than they would ever get from anyone else. John Carter 14:27, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree, too. Lead actors, or actors with multiple Bond film appearances should most certainly be part of the Wikiproject. So, too, should the authors (and I've added the banner to all the author articles). 23skidoo 21:51, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Articles 

message: I'm slowly adding the banner to more Bond-related articles. All the book authors now have them, plus I've added Michael G. Wilson and Barbara Broccoli to the list, along with Kevin McClory. I also added the Robert Markham article to the list. 23skidoo 21:59, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just for the record, it might be good to add them to a Bond-related category too, so that no-one argues the presence of the banner. Maybe :Category:James Bond writers? John Carter 22:16, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe "James Bond novelists" otherwise we'd have to include any of the film and comic strip writers, too. 23skidoo 22:19, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I actually created the :Category:James Bond authors. We won't have to include any other writers, but the title is at this point broad enough to allow that if for whatever reason we want to later. We this way could also include the writers of the screenplays of some of the later movies, if we choose to do so. Qualifiers can always be added to the text of the category later, as well. John Carter 22:28, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I added Robert Markham to the category although this is technically a duplicate since Kingsley Amis is already there. It logically makes more sense in that category though (previously in the main JB cat). I also added R. D. Mascott (which is a redirect). These are the official authors by GP/IFP so that should be it though there are arguably others: Peel and Jenner, but at that point it gets really gray and you'd then have to consider adding Jenkins and Hatfield, which I oppose, and maybe screenwriters and so forth. I would think the criteria should be: "officially (IFP approved) published authors of a Bond-related fictional novel." That should cover it. ;) K1Bond007 01:14, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I might add "authors of screenplays which are clearly original works", maybe as a subcategory, though. Also, Christopher Wood is already included, and I don't know how many others that would apply to. John Carter 01:31, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wood is included because he wrote two novelizations. "James Bond authors" should be restricted to people (or entities in the case of Markham) who have published official Bond fiction. Screenwriters are not the same as authors and should have their own category (which is a good idea anyway because we should have a category for the likes of Richard Maibaum, Robert Wade, Paul Haggis, etc.). In this instance, Wood would be listed under two categories because of his special status. I think John Peel should be included because he wrote a series of James Bond Jr. novelizations and these were officially sanctioned.  23skidoo 13:17, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  More additions 

message: The YOLT DVD contains this fascinating made-for-TV special produced by Broccoli and Saltzman. I think it should have its own article because it actually contains a storyline involving Moneypenny and Q (played by Maxwell and Llewellyn) and was even filmed on the 007 sets including Moneypenny's office and Q's lab, neither of which I think even appear in YOLT! I wouldn't want to guess where this fits into any sort of canon (and the reference to OHMSS is a nice metafictional touch) but I think the special deserves its own article. Thoughts? 23skidoo 13:28, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Welcome to Japan Mr. Bond 

message: This is a half-baked idea, I know. However, I would like to see maybe a male counterpart of Wikipe-tan created. Maybe an image in a pose similar to that of Roger Moore in the James Bond gun barrel sequence, or maybe a bust image of the iconic pose with a gun pointed up over one shoulder, like on the Live and Let Die (film) poster. Something like that. After all, Wikipe-tan probably gets kinda lonely out there in virtual space, and she'd probably like having around someone who can really show her a platonic good time. (I'm not really sure how old she is, of course, so it would be strictly platonic, you cad.) Anyway, if anyone knows anyone who could create such an image, I think it would probably be useful not only for us, but maybe for any other such projects that might emerge later, as maybe a sort of award for work on characters like Simon Templar, Matt Helm, Remo Williams, and any of the other adventure heroes of that type. Also, if whoever did it could make the loops in the "w" in "W7"'s name (just an idea) come close to closing, but not completely, I think we might be able to avoid legal complications. John Carter 13:59, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request for possible image 

message: That didn't take long. Only a few days in play and already our project page has been vandalized. Who brought the vodka martinis? 23skidoo 01:55, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  We've arrived 

message: :List of actresses who portrayed Bond girls - List is started; precise definition of "Bond girl" escapes me, though, so several people listed/shown may not necessarily qualify
:List of actors who portayed James Bond - a list exists, but it could probably use a lot of work
:List of actors and actresses who portrayed Bond villains
:List of actors and actresses who portrayed Bond henchmen
:List of actors and actresses who portrayed Bond allies
SpecialWindler 07:52, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, sometimes the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing, but sometimes information is neither appropriate as a list OR a category.  It seems rare that well cited, NPOV, encyclopedic material gets deleted by both AFD and CFD. -- Samuel Wantman 07:52, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: New Article Suggestions

message: I see that in GoldenEye and The World Is Not Enough, the cast section information is about how the actor got the part, not the character. Tomorrow Never Dies, Die Another Day, [[Licence to Kill], The Living Daylights, A View to a Kill, Octopussy and probably others have no extra information. I saw someone put something in open tasks specifically about The World Is Not Enough as if it were anomaly. Which way should this go? Should there be any bio information in the cast section other than names of actors and characters? If there is more information is about how the actor got the part, or about the character? ColdFusion650 17:15, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You mean like the format for a cast section or who belongs and who doesn't belong in a cast section? El Greco (talk • contribs) 19:48, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

text: See Casino Royale for a proper cast section. Cliff smith 01:31, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cast sections 

message: Since you started using the bot instead of updating it manually, I suggest you to make a separate table listing number of articles in category, list, template, etc. OhanaUnited 15:41, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article stats 

message: I'm keeping the Mission of the Week to work on James Bond, for two reasons, it didn't get a full week, and it did not receive any real work done on it yet.  I think we need to find a better way of nominating the next mission and such. Ganfon 20:35, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, for those who didn't know, it was the 82nd most frequently hit article in wikipedia according to Wikicharts here. That makes it, at least in one regard, one of the most important articles wikipedia has. John Carter 21:50, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mission of the Week 

message: In the article From Russia with Love (film) Martine Beswick is credited as the dancing girl in the opening titles sequence. This is directly contradicted on her own page. Can anyone find a way to reconcile these two statements, or find out which is wrong? Also, we currently have several variant spellings of the name of her Paula Caplan/Kaplan/Kaplin whatever character. Anyone who can fix this would be most appreciated. John Carter 15:03, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Content disagreement 

message: Listen, I'm sorry, but I messed up.  I'm trying to join and I've messed the whole damn page up with my complete inability to handle anything more technological than a toaster.  If someone could sort things out I'd be eternally thankfull... (Callum J. Stewart 09:06, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help! 

message: On the Other Tasks list I see there's a move to get a couple of articles to Featured status. I don't support that either in part because I witnessed the article for Thunderball go to Featured status and then be removed from featured status because someone didn't like it and was vocal enough about it; it was a frustrating enough experience that I swore off the idea (for the same reason I dislike importance ranking -- too much POV to be worthwhile. That said, I think getting Thunderball back to featured status should be a priority, for pride if nothing else. (PS. I just noticed this task was in fact removed from the list, in case anyone is wondering what I'm going on about).  23skidoo 22:19, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Speaking of Open Tasks, I hope the one I added made sense. The books came first but quite often I'll come across an article that is about a character from the books, yet all the information is from the films, or a list is created that is supposed to have characters from the books but only the film characters are listed. Obviously the films are always going to be better known, but enough of us are familiar with the novels that we can make sure that, say, an article on Auric Goldfinger makes Fleming's original concept of the character clear to start with, followed by details of the film adaptation. 23skidoo 22:29, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. The article on Pussy Galore seems to be repeatedly "fixed" so the photo of Honor Blackman (who doesn't look at all like the novel woman, although the novel cover does) heads it up. That's one problem with these blasted "Wikiproject James Bond" templates. All they do is encourage movie-ism. So let's watch it, shall we? SBHarris 04:16, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I agree a lot of the work has already been done. I just thought it was important to make the statement for the record as there will, naturally, be a lot of interested parties who aren't familiar with the novels. In fact I've encountered a few people who weren't even aware there were James Bond novels until last year's Casino Royale spotlighted the fact. 23skidoo 13:11, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Open tasks list 

message: I've noticed there are a huge amount of images on practically every James Bond film article now. Some of them are incredibly ridiculous. For instance: Thunderball. The summary mentions a shark and therefore apparently we need an image of a shark and what really gets me is it's not even the shark from the movie. Same goes for the image of the Bahamas, the rebreather, and well.. pretty much every other image on there save for maybe 2 or 3. Why do we have these images? Because Wikipedia's readers are dumb ;) ? Because they can't click the link "shark" and see an image and learn about sharks there? I honestly don't get it. I also question the quality of some of these "screenshots". The DVDs look great and yet this is the best image we can get of Quarrel.
First off I think some of these images fail Wikipedia's own policies and guidelines on image use, but I think we need to start policing this ourselves. Images should be of a meaningful scene, not just arbitrarily chosen. They should also be of the best quality we can get - preferably from the source (i.e., the actual DVD, not a fansite). The Quarrel one needs to go and someone needs to do a new screen capture from Dr. No. We also need to limit redundancy. Why do we really have a shot of Quarrel on the Dr. No article to begin with? Shouldn't that the be the job of the "List of" related articles? Maybe if that was it, it wouldn't be so bad, but we also have shots of the Three Blind Mice, Dr. No, Professor Dent (in black and white), Honey and Bond, and one of Bond not to mention another shot of the Caribbean (not from the movie), a generic picture of a Walther PPK, etc etc. All of these are practically redundant and needless. The one of Bond would be good if it was of better quality and in the right section explaining what was going on, but it's all wrong.
I can go on and on, but the point is to turn attention of the Wikiproject to this issue. These are our core article and practically all of them (because of this IMHO) look like a really bad 1990s geocities fansite ;) K1Bond007 21:37, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree. You've inspired me to kill the gratuitous shot of Miami somebody added to Goldfinger-flim, just because some of the action takes place there. And to include space for crap like this, we've lost a lot of interesting information, some of it on the grounds that it was "trivia"! Well, there's nothing more trivial than generic clip-art. Yep. Be bold and nail it wherever you can. SBHarris 04:54, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Overabundance of images 

message: As all the articles under WikiProject James Bond have been assessed, should the task be removed from the major task list, or left on for when new JB articles are created? Perhaps if it was removed, and the task of assessing individual new articles could be added to minor tasks as needed? Your thoughts please. Editus 17:28, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd say remove it. As there are no longer any unassessed articles, we can simply assess any new articles created in the future. Because of this, there will not be a lot of unassessed articles at any one time, so it wont be a major task - • The Giant Puffin • 17:36, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unassessed articles 

message: Hi, I'm a new member and I've only just created an account; I have seen all the Bond films and have about half on DVD, so I'm going to crack on with the required plot summaries listed on the project page. Since I'm not entirely confident with setting up articles from scratch or making major changes, I'm going to leave the major changes for now, but if there's a specific task that's demanded by the project's powers that be (whoever they might be) doing just let me know. Editus 17:36, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New member 

message: A slightly mad idea, but then all the best Bond villains were mad...What if in the James Bond gun barrel sequence article, we put in a video of the sequence playing on a continuous loop, as this would illustrate it much better than a written description. This just occurred to me as I was browsing articles, but I am concerned about feasibility and copyright issues. Editus 16:54, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If it could be done, that would be very interesting. But it would only be cool if it included each different James Bond gun barrel sequence. El Greco (talk • contribs) 19:09, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm gonna have to side with the opposition here.  Video loops do get quite annoying. Ganfon 19:53, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gun sequence video 

message: I've changed around GoldenEye, Tomorrow Never Dies, The World Is Not Enough, and Die Another Day to match Casino Royale. I've also removed the trivia section from The World Is Not Enough to a short Production section. The World Is Not Enough and Die Another Day need a short synopsis in the lead. I haven't seen either, so I don't feel I can adequately sum up the plot. The World Is Not Enough needs a Production, Release, and Soundtrack section. I think GoldenEye is pretty much finished. That's kind of been my project for a while, so I've really done some work on the content. After the formatting to match Casino Royal, per the Open Task list, I think it's done. There's nothing else I can do, at least. ColdFusion650 21:38, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I did the plot summary for The Living Daylights earlier today; all the films now have plot summaries. Editus 16:44, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  To Do Status Reports 

message: Hey there I was just wondering, if you think you can contribute to a specifically designed for James Bond you should check out Bondpedia.net especially if you like Nightfire Highfields 15:57, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bondpedia 

message: Folks, it's not only the mission of the week, it's nominated for Featured Status.  And so far the main complaint is it's sources.  If everyone would focus their efforts on James Bond and working to get great sources for the information presented, it shouldn't have any trouble getting to featured status.Ganfon 19:56, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wouldn't it have been wiser to get the sources to reference the article first? Then once the article is actually referenced, nominate it for FA? It just seems now that you're trying to play catchup and it might or might not work. Was there a peer review for the article before hand to point out the issues in the article? El Greco (talk • contribs) 00:38, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably, however the 'catch-up' wouldn't nearly as hard if all the members of the project would work hard to meet the criticism and help the project's most important article reach featured status.  There's no reason it would fail it's candidacy as long as all who supports the idea shows their support and spends some time working on the article.  Right now everyone is stretching the project a million different ways.  Maybe before we do that, we should focus our efforts on our main project. Ganfon 01:14, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would say that since this is a volunteer project, although you can make suggestions on what articles to work on, everyone can work on whatever articles they want. It's the nature of Wikipedia. If nobody else wants to work on that article, they don't have to. ColdFusion650 11:37, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm with ColdFusion. If you want people to help specifically on the article, give us a small-scale, quantitative list (i.e. small tasks and we can check them off when we're done) either here or on the article talk page. Example: "reference quote XYZ in Section ABC" Editus 16:43, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

text: The main James Bond article is going to take a lot of work to be as comprehensive as it can yet still fit on a page. The subject isn't exactly the easiest to organize when you're gunning for both the novels and films, not to mention video games, comic books, comic strips and much more. It needs to be far more sourced, with credible sources - there are so many websites out there that have bad information or are using age-old apocryphal stories that need to be weeded out. A lot of low-end books do the same; just regurgitating the same crap and some of it has found it's way to Wikipedia. I can see why, but for that article to be any good in my eyes it needs to use more core sources (John Pearson's The Life of Ian Fleming, Andrew Lycett's biography, pretty much anything by John Cork or Kingsley Amis). I seriously wouldn't put much focus on making this article an FA. Just try and improve the article as best as we can. FA status isn't really worth it if you ask me. If you want an FA for this Wikiproject, it'd be best to focus on easier ones than this. James Bond (films) would be a good start or pick a movie or book and try and do it. Casino Royale is close. Going for "James Bond" though? That's like trying to learn how to swim by jumping in the deep end. K1Bond007 08:42, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

text: As right as you are, K1Bond, you're also wrong. Yes, getting James Bond to FA status will be difficult for the reasons you have mentioned, but equally it is the central article to this WikiProject and so if any article should be top-notch, it should be this one. Editus Reloaded 09:08, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, it's centric, but I don't think we should set it as a goal to make it an FA. Make it a great article and maintain that - if it can gain FA status and someone wants to put all the time and effort into that then sure, but in the end FAs don't really mean anything and in a few months time, a few editors will see to it to strip it of its FA status. No attempt to improve the problems of the article that were apparently glaring when the article gained that status, just a quick vote and it's over. It's almost a waste of time. It really is. I'm only saying that the focus of our time, effort and energy should be improving all articles related to James Bond, not just this specific one. There are so many articles on James Bond related topics here that are pretty poor that could use that energy instead. "James Bond", additionally, as I stated is not an easy article to get to FA status. It'll be three times as hard as any other due to the broadness of the subject matter. If you want to do it then go for it, but it shouldn't be the Wikiproject's focus. That's not really the point to a Wikiproject anyway. It's about collaborating together to organize and maintain the entire subject matter through a variety of means such as consensus and guidelines. It's about having a central point of discussion in which to do all of that. Making FA articles is just a byproduct. K1Bond007 03:41, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help [[James Bond]] 

message: On the James Bond page it says
The twenty-one Bond films have grossed over $4 billion worldwide, making it the second most successful film series ever (behind Star Wars at nearly $20 billion).
Ok.  But as far as I can see it, James Bond is the highest grossing film series.  In the table on James Bond it adds up to $4,355,700,000.  Now Star Wars (according to their individual pages) equates to: I: $924m, II: $649m, III: $849m, IV: $775m, V: $538m, VI: $475m which equates to 4.2 million which makes James Bond the better franchise.  Now the $20 billion claim is at the entire Star Wars franchise. backed up by
this site
------------------------------------
SpecialWindler 09:38, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Box-office success does not make any film or series "good". If you're eager to get those numbers into the article, and you have reliable sources, you may want to omit the "better" wording. —AldeBaer 14:14, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Successful" or "popular," however, are objectively correct terms, if based fairly on box office attendence. I put in the "fairly" since I don't know how to correct for the effects of time: population and technology like ripping of digital copies, and other stuff. So it's a problem. SBHarris 04:23, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  James Bond the film series 

message: A few of the James Bond films have very long plot sections including
* From Russia with Love (film) (very long)
* Goldfinger (film) (very long)
* Thunderball (film) (long)
* You Only Live Twice (film) (long)
* On Her Majesty's Secret Service (film) (very long)
* Diamonds Are Forever (film) (long)
* The Man with the Golden Gun (film) (very long)
* The Spy Who Loved Me (film) (long)
* Moonraker (film) (very long)
* A View to a Kill (long)
* The Living Daylights (very long)
* Licence to Kill (long)
* The World Is Not Enough (long)
202.83.118.27 02:08, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry forgot to log in SpecialWindler 04:02, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have brought some of these down to the length present in Casino Royale (800-1000 words) and have struck them off the list here and on the project page. Editus Reloaded 17:46, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

text: EDIT: Using Casino Royale as a yardstick (see project page), how can the plot section in Diamonds are Forever (534 words) be considered long compared to CR's 800ish words? Editus Reloaded 18:07, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Ditto The Spy Who Loved Me (807 words). I have removed some superfluous, uncaptioned images to reduce the on-screen length of the section. Editus Reloaded 18:12, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Sorry, I used my eyes to check the lengths of these, some of the pictures are very misleading.  As you say the plot section shoould be roughly 800-1000 words. SpecialWindler 08:04, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: How updated is this list? It's not synchronized with the project page tasks list. It only has The Living Daylights left on the list. The World Is Not Enough is less than 800 words, so I'm striking it. Striking Diamonds Are Forever per above comment ColdFusion650 19:17, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plot sections 

message: It is important that all articles over WP: James Bond are all importance tagged and they are all standard, eg. GoldenEye (film) is high so all other Bond films should be High.  The problem is which ones should they go in.
 Consensus for Importance Tags
Article Type                                             	Special Windler             	El Greco &Cliff Smith            	John Carter                       	23skidoo                                               	Ganfon                                               	ColdFusion650                 	Consensus
James Bond                                               	Top                         	Top                              	Top                               	Top                                                    	Top                                                  	Top                           	Top
Important James Bond articles  eg. JB (films), JB (books)	Top                         	Top                              	Top                               	Top                                                    	Top                                                  	Top                           	Top
EON Films                                                	High                        	Top                              	Top                               	Mid to Top depending on film                           	Mid                                                  	Top                           	Top
Ian Fleming Books                                        	High                        	High                             	High                              	Mid to Top depending on book                           	High to Top Depending on the book                    	High                          	High
Unofficial Films (parodies, etc.)                        	Mid                         	Top                              	Mid                               	Mid                                                    	Low                                                  	Mid                           	Mid
Bond Producers                                           	Mid                         	??                               	Mid                               	Mid (but Top for Broccolli and Saltzman)               	Mid                                                  	Mid                           	Mid
Authorised Books  (other than Fleming)                   	Mid                         	High                             	High                              	Mid to High depending on book                          	Mid                                                  	High                          	High
Unoffical Books                                          	Low                         	Mid                              	Low                               	Low to Mid depending on book                           	Low                                                  	Low                           	Low
007 Actors (6)                                           	High                        	High                             	High                              	High to Top depending on actor                         	Top for all but Lazenby and Dalton, who should be mid	High                          	High
Main Bond Girls                                          	Mid                         	High                             	High                              	Mid to High depending on character                     	High                                                 	Mid                           	High
Secondary Bond Girls                                     	Low                         	Mid                              	Mid (with possible exceptions)    	Low to High depending on character                     	Low                                                  	Low                           	Low
Main Bond Villains                                       	Mid                         	High                             	High                              	Mid to Top depending on character                      	High to Top depending on villain                     	High                          	High
Main Recurring Characters  eg. M or Felix but not Tanner 	Mid                         	High                             	High                              	Low to High depending on character                     	High for Felix, Mid for most others                  	High                          	High
Secondary Recurring                                      	Low                         	High                             	Mid                               	Low to Mid depending on character                      	Low                                                  	Mid                           	
Lists of Henchmen  & Allies by film                      	Low                         	Low                              	Low                               	Low                                                    	Low                                                  	Low                           	Low
Bond Songs                                               	Low  except James Bond theme	??                               	Low (maybe excepting "Goldfinger")	Low to High depending on song                          	Low                                                  	Low                           	Low
Bond Albums                                              	Low                         	??                               	Low                               	Low to Mid                                             	Low                                                  	Low                           	Low
Other Bond cast  eg Judi Dench or Halle Berry            	Don't have Them at All      	??Don't belong here (Cliff smith)	Low                               	High for Dench and other recurring; Low to Mid others  	High for Dench, Bernard Lee, Low for others          	Mid for Dench, none for others	?
Bond Crew Members                                        	Low                         	??Low (Cliff smith)              	Low                               	Low to High depending on individual (Peter Lamont high)	Low                                                  	Low                           	Low
I think this should be in the talk page to get some sort of consensus, so I moved it to the talk page. Here's my version:
*Top
**James Bond, and main pages such as JB (films including Never Say Never Again)
**Ian Fleming
*High
**Ian Fleming Novels
**James Bond Novels (not including Young Bond, etc.)
**Official James Bond Actors (Sean Connery, George Lazenby, Roger Moore, Timothy Dalton, Pierce Brosnan, Daniel Craig) 
**Main Villains (such as Blofeld and Auric Goldfinger)
**Main Girls (Honey Ryder, Christmas Jones, Vesper Lynd, Tracy Bond) - Bond girls that have done more than just sleep with Bond.
**Recurring Characters (M, Felix Leiter, Q, MoneyPenny)
*Mid
**Other Novels (Young Bond, etc.)
**Unofficial Films (the two Casino Royale parodies)
**James Bond Jr.
**Unofficial James Bond Actors (Barry Nelson, Peter Sellers)
*Low
**Henchmen (lists)
**Secondary Girls (such as Ruby Bartlett or Solange) - Bond girls that are well, just there
**Allies (lists)
**All Other Bond Articles
El Greco (talk • contribs) 00:44, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, a possible alternate format. Maybe, like Wikipedia:WikiProject Novels, we could create a page where we could, when we're done with the basics here, go item by item for which articles should be in either "Top" or "High" importance. The Mid and Low importance articles can probably be "categorize" much less controversially, based on the guidelines proposed above. John Carter 14:29, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Good work. 4/2 is from what I remember just barely sufficient for consensus, although it isn't always used as such, so that's no real help. Maybe we could break it down into "other cast with significant roles" and "actors playing minor characters"? I would say definite "yes" on the first, but am unsure of the latter. And, for these purposes, I think we can at least limit "significant roles" from the outset as including only named characters with speaking roles. Further clarification, perhaps by character or role, is also certainly possible. John Carter 01:01, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Is there anyway we can place the last column on the main page or place it in a WPJB/Assesment for articles page? El Greco (talk • contribs) 19:46, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Importance Tags 

message: I have nominated GoldenEye for FA status. Recent improvements, with the help of this project, has made it a high quality article. Any addition of references to the article would help secure FA status - • The Giant Puffin • 14:34, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  GoldenEye nominated for FA status 

message: I took the pruning shears to the plot of Goldfinger (film), but I would appreciate if someone could check it over, as I cut about 300 words and four images, not sure if this was too bold a move. Editus Reloaded 15:42, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plot abridging 

message: Recently this template has had directors put on it, see Template:Bond movies. But why do we need these directors, it makes the template to complex and opens up to "can we put producers" and more.  The template just needs to have the films.
It is my suggestion is that we delete the directors, put it on a new template entitled
which allows us to add producers, writers etc.
PS. It is my understanding that this WikiProject hasn't been active for some time, so If I don't get a reply, I will do this anyway in about a week.
SpecialWindler 21:08, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would say be bold. The worst thing that could happen is that someone who doesn't like it reverts it and curses you for the rest of your days. ColdFusion650 21:12, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, but maybe someone added it from a conscensus on Talk:James Bond or Template talk:Bond movies, so I'd like to get some conscensus first, but I'll do it now. SpecialWindler 06:29, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems like a good idea, you dont want the James Bond movies template being too cluttered - • The Giant Puffin • 10:06, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Template:Bond movies]]