Talk:Faust

message: "... Goethe's later Faust, which may be considered the more definitive classic work" - why definitive? Definitive of what? Why is it more of a classic than Marlowe?
— Preceding unsigned comment added by  (talk • contribs) 
:The trick is to consult literature on the question, and then cite what you found. It's easy. --dab (𒁳) 07:42, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Goethe POV

message: The name of Faust's first love in the play is Margarethe wich is commonly nicknamed Gretchen.
Like Bob for Robert. I think it would be more appropriate to use her christian name.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.188.206.62 (talk) 00:49, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Gretchen in Goethe's Faust

message: Not sure how important it is, but as far as I know, Faust was a late medieval - early modern restatement of "the Devil(demon) and the Smith", which as far as I know is the oldest parable in the western indo-european oral history. The green man symbolism is older, but the myth is lost as other than elves and faires etc. I think it's important for the Faust story, because it demonstrates that the faustian Archetype is essentially eternal.  (Forge as fires of hell etc.  Metalworking = magic.)  --2601:188:4100:1304:844E:7E4F:F165:96E7 (talk) 15:39, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Origins

message: Okay my ex believes himself to be Mephestophilos or however ya'll spell that....what the crap? What is the story behind mephesto. He think's he's some kind of demon here to bring the world back to which it came from. --K-os
You just cannot seriously say that a tale of selling one's soul to the devil 'has some base in history' any more than 'ascending to heaven on the back of an eagle' has some basis in aerodynamics. User:Wetman
:I don't the article means to suggest that the bit about diabolic soul commerce actually happened to an historical figure - it's just that Faust-the-character's roots do seem to lie in a real person, so in that sense the tale does indeed have some basis in history. --Camembert
You have to take in to consideration the time period.  Nearly everything was related to heaven or hell in some way.  So when you come across a man who, in societies eyes, have pledged their lives to sin and almost pride themselves in it, they would think you were in league with the devil. User:NexNecis
:Actually I think the most obvious source of the "Faustus" story is in St. Augustine's Confessions, in which Augustine flirts with the religion of Manichaeism before becoming a Catholic Christian. Manichaeism is remembered most often for its belief in a "good" spiritual world at odds with an "evil" material world, a view which Christianity has both been influenced by and supposedly officially rejects as a pernicious heresy. Augustine ultimately decided that good has substance but evil has no substance of its own, and is only void. Faustus was a Manichaean bishop with whom Augustine was acquainted and ultimately disappointed. It would be difficult to overstate the influence of Augustine on Christian thought and European intellectual history in general, so "Confessions" is not some arcane piece of writing. Augustine's Faustus fits the mold of someone whom many Christians would say had been tempted and misled by a competing/corrupting body of occult knowledge; the German Faustus story obviously translated this to contemporary kinds of occult knowledge like astrology and alchemy. This casts doubt on criticisms such as that of atheist thinker Bertrand Russell (in his essay "A Free Man's Worship") that the Faustus story is specifically an attack on science and freedom of mind; certainly in Augustine's Confessions it's a matter of one religion versus another and not an attack on rationality or intellectualism in and of itself. --Elizdelphi 19:18, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: General

message: The comic book V for Vendetta, by Alan Moore and David Lloyd, makes reference to Faust and the "deal" he made.
:And?
What the hell is the "deal" that is being referred to? ...... smart ass  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.219.245.222 (talk) 06:06, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference in V for Vendetta 

message: As part of the 2006 DCI Season, Phantom Regiment's show is entitled "Faust" and consists of Scythian Suite by Sergei Prokofiev, Ave Maria by Franz Biebl, Piano Concerto by John Corigliano, and Gustav Mahler's Symphony No. 2 ("Resurrection"). Should this be included in the music section as reference to Faust?
It has been included but someone was under the impression that it was original music.  I have corrected that error.
Simply performing the music of another composer adds nothing to the historical understanding of Faust.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.68.54.186 (talk) 16:25, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Drum Corps inclusion (Music) 

message: Are there any sources for the suggestion that Mephisto comes from "me Phisto philos", or is this original research on the part of whoever added it? —Angr 11:15, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Me Phisto philos 

message: Kamelot currently shows up twice in the 'popular music' section.  Is there any valid reason why it's listed twice?  I don't konw which one should stay, but at least I fixed the formatting on the links in both of them. --Googleaseerch 04:47, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kamelot 

message: I have tagged this section with , for it just about lists every reference to Faust under the sun. The title, I think, is a signpost for drive-by editors to leave their mark on wikipedia by adding pointless references. It should perhaps be retitled to emphasise stricter criteria. All other references can be moved to Crap with some reference, however important, to Faust and we can assign it to Fancruft and Drive-by-editing Wikiproject. Thoughts? Brainmuncher 08:34, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Works which retell or allude to the Faust tale

message: Steveynclan 21:06, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know, but the play is entitled Mary of Nijmeghen. Brainmuncher 04:08, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would suggest adding a novel to the list of works based on the Faust legend: Loving Mephistopheles by Miranda Miller( Peter Owen 2007).Optimist2008 (talk) 09:26, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Faust play

message: Well? Where are they? I can only find one at the bottom. Conjure up some more; use whatever spells and potions necessary. If this fails, well, there is always a friend standing by who might help, in exchange for your soul. The fruit will taste just as sweet with or without this trifle. Brainmuncher 09:02, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources

message: why does it list Oscar Wilde, Klaus Mann, etc... and not The Picture of Dorian Grey, etc... Even though (in Oscar Wilde's case) it is his only work, it still should not be a link to the author, Oscar Wilde did not make a deal with the devil... Dorian Grey did... not that it's confusing or anything. Is there a reason the books aren't listed there? (this is all in reference to the end of the first paragraph). --66.134.52.222 05:11, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  why the writers? 

message: Chaucer's FRIAR'S TALE from CANTERBURY TALES might be considered another source for the "deal with the devil" idea.  A con man befriends a demon and advises him to seize any object that has been cursed by taking "damn it" or "to hell with it" literally.  Later, when the con man tries to extort money from an innocent woman, she curses him, and the demon seizes the con man's soul, following the man's own advice.
I would also like to point out that the whole Faust concept depends on the notion of a demon's having power independent of God.  In Dante's theology as expressed in THE DIVINE COMEDY, for example, Satan is helpless and the demons serve God by punishing sinners; under this theology the Faust story could never have occurred.  Evidentally new ideas arose between Dante's time and Chaucer's.
CharlesTheBold 22:13, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well said SamanthaG 20:55, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another source 

message: Maybe it would be worth it to note the similarities between the Book of Job and the story of Faust? They both begin with God and the devil basically making a bet concerning whether a person will have faith in God, more or less. Maybe it's a bit far-fetched. Any thoughts?
66.32.164.14 (talk) 21:03, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If you have a 3rd-party source that compares the two, it would be a candidate to add to the article.  Otherwise, it is original research and cannot be added, no matter how interesting or insightful it might be :) --Jaysweet (talk) 21:07, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Such may be seen as original research and not fit for this venue.  Unless there are notable verifiable sources which make this comparison, and such a viewpoint accepted by a majority or significant minority.  See if you can find anything. - CobaltBlueTony™ talk 21:08, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Job 

message: The Peter Cook and Dudley moore film "Bedazzled" (1968) was essentially a comic retelling of the faust legend. is this worth inclusion? i find it more noteworthy than the fact in Ghostrider nicholas cage briefly reads the book 89.241.6.9 (talk) 17:47, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bedazzled 

message: Starring Catherine Mary Stewart and George Gilmour.  Director: Menahem Golan.  Faust story. German production by Golan/Globus.  Distributed by MGM Home Entertainment as DVD with PG Rating and released 2004.08.24  Old Testament movie in a disco-musical format.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080380/usercomments
http://www.slantmagazine.com/Film/film_review.asp?ID=1208
--Sponsion (talk) 19:22, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Apple 

message: "Sources of the legend" sections notes an edition of Goethe's version claims Paracelsus was used as a model for the character.  This may be true, but we go on to say that "Parcelsus' works were copied by his fellow Rosicrucians and became the foundation of much scientific investigation. The Dictionary of Scientific Biography calls him 'a great doctor, whose influence has been enormous.' "
Paracelsus was an occult alchemist.  His claims were generally fantastical and based more on philosophy and superstition than science, not unlike the Daoist "alchemists."  He is especially notable for claiming spirits and artificial humans could be created by putting horse shit in jars.  
I recommend deleting this sentence. 67.22.255.19 (talk) 00:24, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Paracelsus notes dubious 

message: Rich Farmbrough, 03:14, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: In Our Time

message: Death Note seems to borrow heavily from the plot, and imagery. 
-G  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.24.148.136 (talk) 08:34, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I can confirm that the plot contains many similarities to that of Faust's, mainly the protagonist sacrificing his humanity to achieve happiness. Indydegrees1 (talk) 11:35, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

text: The film Bad Influence clearly borrowed from the Faust/Mephisto motive as well. Rob Lowe's sneaky, charming character Alex invites the young, diffident white-collar manager Michael (James Spader), who has a well-paid junior exec job but barely exists outside of it, to take a tour of the flashy nightlife of late '80s yuppie/underground New York and get what he dreams of, go get it - then he traps him. seeing to that the newcomer wakes up next to a woman (a high-class escort, I think) who's just been killed hours after the two made love. Over the course of the film, Alex becomes more and more of a dark mirror of the white-collar man's suppressed or dirty desires, and at the same time his forceful master. 83.254.151.33 (talk) 11:52, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Death Note

message: This article is the weirdest page I've ever seen on Wikipedia.  Every link on the page is an external link, and apparently Wikipedia cannot inform me on the term Faust or Faustian.  At first I thought it was a disambiguation page, but it is not.  I question the validity of why this page exists and think it should be deleted.Bcwilmot (talk) 23:20, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Nope. Someone vandalized it a few minutes ago. — Jeraphine Gryphon (talk) 00:18, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Attention Wikipedia Editor(s) 

message: Faust merits a better entry! I do not have time to make edits at the moment, but this is fair warning: by any scholarly standard, this article in its present state is unacceptable. The lack of historical data, literary research, and overall presentation qualify this entry as one in sore need of development and rewriting. Anyone care to step up?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skelbe-stin (talk • contribs) 00:26, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Overhaul needed 

message: === "Faustian" (or "Faustian bargain") ===
  In the 1st 'graph of the lead, we said
: Faust and Faustian imply a situation in which an ambitious person surrenders moral integrity in order to achieve power and success for a delimited term.
A more ambitious editor could verify whether EB's wording provides actual verification, but i'm more concerned about the formatting for the moment: Faust is the work, but the context implies the intent that "a Faust"  (i've added the emphasis) refers to someone like the namesake of the medieval book (and to the book Faust itself), i.e. a person, not a work; the bold-facing is justified bcz Faustian is a Rdr to here, and thus functions as an "alternate title" for the topic, calling for its first mention to be bolded for those entering the article via that Rdr (and thus expecting "Faustian" to appear in bold somewhere in the lead section -- even tho i'm inclined to argue it should thus be worked into in the lead sentence). But the page "Faustian" refers to is a (quasi-)article, not even a quasi-work, and also deserves no italics. Thus i edit to
: Faust and Faustian imply....
--Jerzy•t 14:44, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dubious 

message: In the 1st 'graph of the lead, we said
: Faust and Faustian imply a situation in which an ambitious person surrenders moral integrity in order to achieve power and success for a delimited term.
A more ambitious editor could verify whether EB's wording provides actual verification, but i'm more concerned about the formatting for the moment: Faust is the work, but the context implies the intent that "a Faust"  (i've added the emphasis) refers to someone like the namesake of the medieval book (and to the book Faust itself), i.e. a person, not a work; the bold-facing is justified bcz Faustian is a Rdr to here, and thus functions as an "alternate title" for the topic, calling for its first mention to be bolded for those entering the article via that Rdr (and thus expecting "Faustian" to appear in bold somewhere in the lead section -- even tho i'm inclined to argue it should thus be worked into in the lead sentence). But the page "Faustian" refers to is a (quasi-)article, not even a quasi-work, and also deserves no italics. Thus i edit to
: Faust and Faustian imply....
--Jerzy•t 14:44, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Faustian" (or "Faustian bargain") 

message: The professional writer who is my humanities consultant joins me in considering "adaptations" a better word than "appropriations" to describe works inspired by an earlier work. Other opinions?--Jerzy•t 15:25, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Appropriations" of the ("real"?) Faust 

message: The album "Beethoven's Last Night" by Trans-Siberian Orchestra tells a story that is clearly largely based on Faust, so shouldn't it be added to the "Music" section?131.156.156.23 (talk) 10:10, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Beethoven's Last Night 

message: Hallo  thank you for your edit, but I'm not sure that it is appropriate here: The article, as stated in the beginning, is concerned with the "German legendary character". This cannot be the one of Augustine, at whose time there was no Germany and (for all we know) no German legend about Faust. As stated in the article (and in agreement which what I've read in the literature), the German legends are based on the historical Faust character living in the Renaissance (15th and 16th century). Therefore, I think that the sentence regarding the bishop (from antiquity) by name of "Faustus" should be removed unless one can also give evidence that this was a source for some of the Faust characters described here. There were many other historical figures named Faustus in that time.  --Qcomp (talk) 17:02, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I've looked for references that link Faustus the Manichean about who Augustine writes to the legendary character and could not find any. Since the name Faustus is not that rare and no relation besides the name was provided, I have removed the sentence again from the main article.  --Qcomp (talk) 12:40, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: --11614soup 13:22, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Faustus" in Augustines "Confessions" 

message: In German, Faust means "fist". There is no discussion of what, if any, meaning or symbolism is implied. WilliamSommerwerck (talk) 13:17, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: fist

message: You could run on for several pages with these. To give an obvious example... Little Shop of Horrors makes it clear "the plant" will grant Seymour whatever he wants, if Seymour gets him human blood. In the heavily edited theatrical version, Seymour and Audrey barely escape, but in the film's original version, both are eaten by the plant. WilliamSommerwerck (talk) 13:17, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: "Faustian" stories that aren't explicit retellings

message: Has this not been thought of? Here is an article that touches on the film as having a faustian plotline:
https://collinwatchesmovies.wordpress.com/2016/06/09/the-imaginarium-of-doctor-parnassus/
The next review is "The Devil and Max Devlin," the previous one is "Bedazzled."  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.24.131.255 (talk) 15:39, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus 

message: Has this not been thought of? Here is an article that touches on the film as having a faustian plotline:
https://collinwatchesmovies.wordpress.com/2016/06/09/the-imaginarium-of-doctor-parnassus/  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.24.131.255 (talk) 20:37, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Lucifer Let's make a deal Make Maria g miramonte.  in love with me. Make sure she never ever 209.137.206.26 (talk) 07:35, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus