Talk:German Eastern Marches Society

message: In my opinion, the society was indeed nationalistic, because it aimed at making the new German national state more German by oppressing the Polish minority. @Sciurinæ: Of course it was only "german nationalistic", not "polish nationalistic", since it only granted the Germans the right to have an own state, not the Poles. I think that doesn't contradict the definition of Nationalism, at least not Wikipedia's definition:
:Nationalism is an ideology which holds that the nation, ethnicity or national identity is a "fundamental unit" of human social life, and makes certain cultural and political claims based upon that belief.
:The Eastern Marches Society did make cultural and politic claims on behalf of national arguments, but only in favor of the "superior" German nation. --Langec 09:12, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: According to Oxford's Advanced Learner's dictionary, 'nationalistic' is defined as "(usually disapproving) having very strong feelings of love and pride in your country, so that you think it is better than any other." To 'disapprove' is defined as "~ (of sb/sth) to think that sb/sth is not good or suitable; to not approve of sb/sth". In other words, the word 'nationalistic' carries negative connotations in it (or else Molobo wouldn't use it) and is therefore not really congrous to the NPOV-policy. I must admit that I didn't read the Wikipedian article as I think neutrality often ends in wiki-articles where international relations or politics in general begin. Having read it now, I think that the wiki-definition is pretty vague and for consistency you would have to label the Silesian Uprisings or any resistance movement in the same way. Anyway, because Molobo could find one example with Google that describes the organisation as 'nationalistic' he would insist on the adjective until I could find "a source contradicting that Hakata was an antipolish nationalistic organisation" so I give in here. Sciurinæ 13:40, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So maybe this discussion boils down to redefining "nationalism" in the Wikipedia ­-- Why not? But, to make sure I understand the definition correctly: Does the word "nationalistic" have different connotations in the English and German language? My German "Wahrig" dictionary (I'm German, as you are) defines "nationalism" as "overreaching national feeling" (German: "übersteigertes Nationalgefühl"), which is far more general than the Oxford definition, and would suit this article quite well. --Langec 22:56, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: When I told you about the meaning of "nationalistic", I was confused because the OUP dictionary referred to "nationalism" as "1)the desire by a group of people who share the same race, culture, language, etc. to form an independent country 2) (sometimes disapproving) a feeling of love for and pride in your country; a feeling that their country is better than any other". And it defined "nationalist" as "1) a person who wants their country to become independent 2) (sometimes disapproving) a person who has a great love for and pride in their country; a person who has a feeling that their country is better than any other". But when it comes to "nationalistic", it reads "(usually disapproving) having very strong feelings of love for and pride in your country, so that you think that it is better than any other". (no, I did not italize the letters of "disapproving", it is this way in the book) So why is "nationalistic" different? I can't answer you that (any more than I can answer you whether 'nationalistisch' and 'nationalistic' have developed different connotations) but look at the definition of the Cambridge dictionary here. I was obviously right in guessing that now that Molobo has managed to Google one page on the net that refers to it as "nationalistic", this is it, no more talking, 'nationalistic' it is. I've briefly toyed with the idea of searching for sources on the net describing Lech so-and-so (the right-wing President of Poland) as "nationalistic" but then, I won't step to the same level and having managed not have the organisation slyly indirectly accused of 'Genocide', as Molobo had tried is a success. Sciurinæ 21:55, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nationalistic or not? 

message: Molobo, when Scurinae refers to "new polish settlers" he means those Poles that came to the German lands of what is now Poland from the Russian owned section, as everyone knows the situation and persecution was much worse in Russian lands, not to mention Russia was still suffering under serfdom.
--Jadger 20:38, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Molobo, those "removed Poles" you are talking of were some thousands who stemmed from the Russian partition of Poland, were mainly migrant workers - I think, and had no German citizenship yet. Were there any other significant numbers of "removed"? Poles were not allowed to build houses in a certain period in two areas, but except for one single use of the Aussiedlungsgesetz, there were no other "removals", were they? Sciurinæ 21:41, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "new" polish settlers

message: And again, I hope my tactics of escape ahead by expanding and referencing disputed articles would prove a good way to avoid conflicts. I have spent the best part of today trying to use as many sources as possible. Hopefully all problems are fixed or sourced now, though I'm not so sure about the overall readability... Any suggestions? 
BTW, here's a short list of links I had either no idea what to do with, or no time to make use of. more on creation extreme nationalism vs. Bethmann   2200 members One of the earliest propaganda societies in Europe Government inspiration walka z polskością 
Cheers all, //Halibutt 21:12, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm happy to note it worked indeed. //Halibutt 09:58, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Expansion by Halibutt 

message: Well, Lincher seems to of made it more orderly, and I know when im beat. The article clearly is well-referenced, NPOV, it reads well, (I still think it seems to end abruptly, but if nobody else can see it, I guess I can't just force the issue), it's stable, (Unless, of course, User:Jadger up there is causing some sort of major content dispute, it doesn't sound like it), the picture is in the public domain it seems, and it is sufficiently broad. Try to find one or two more pictures, and I still have this feeling that the article ends abruptly, for such an extensive sounding organization, I don't understand how it could just vanish like that so quickly after the war. But hey, if there's really not much else, im not about to suggest anyone re-write history just to make the article sound better. Homestarmy 21:46, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: GA status

message: The quote near the top of the article should be attributed. I can see that it's sourced, but I can't read German well enough to understand who the quote is attributed to. I would recommend using a blockquote or quotation template to encapsulate it instead of table code. Also, it would be helpful if there was some kind of upfront definition or explanation of what Eastern Marches or Ostmark refers to in the context of this organization. heqs 00:57, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quotation and definition of Eastern Marches 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Pure fanatical Polish nationalist propaganda page. Wikipedia is getting an appalling reputation for this sort of thing.2A00:23C4:B607:CF00:C121:89A9:A119:833 (talk) 09:41, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Propaganda