Talk:Historical background of the New Testament/Archive 3

message: I take strong exception to the comment in the following quote in the article:
: Somewhere in the three hundred years from 0 - 400 AD, Christianity emerged. !Arianism and various other changes were only seperated during 4th century as not-orthodoxy there was no orthodoxy before!
Although there were some divergent views that laid some claim on the name "Christian", there certainly was a discernible orthodoxy before the 4th century. Arianism was not "separated" from Christianity because Arius had not proposed the ideas until the late 3rd century at the earliest. In the New Testament epistles of Paul and John, both warn their listeners to stick to the message they received from the apostles. Irenaeus wrote that the same teachings were taught and believed in everywhere around the world at the time he wrote in the 2nd century, in his Against Heresies. Other writers during this time similarly exhorted their readers not to be swayed from the message they received; they certainly thought there was an 'orthodox' Christianity. They were identifiable as a distinct group no later than the bar Kochba rebellion when many were slain by their fellow Jews for not acknowledging bar Kochba as the Messiah. Wesley 17:40, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Having said all that, I see I may have put the cart before the horse. Should this article even discuss any of the events that happened after Jesus' crucifixion? I can see maybe going a few years after, but even the bar Kochba revolt may be going too far afield for this article, to say nothing of going all the way to the fourth century. Wesley 17:54, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

text: First, I should apologize for commenting on a version of the article that was already out of date when I made the comment, and any confusion that may have caused. Second, my understanding is that Irenaeus was addressing Christians, wanting them to understand just how different Gnosticism was, even though some Gnostics borrowed a couple of names from Christianity and brought those into their Gnostic framework. Irenaeus talks about orthodox Christianity as something that has been established, as do Paul and John in the NT. I'll try to catch up with the current state of the article before I make any further suggestions though. Wesley 05:13, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Emergence of Christianity 

message: Tigermoon reverted the article without any substnative revision.  But she made two claims.  First, she claimed that I it was completely unfair for me to have replaced FT2s version.  PLEASE read the two versions.  You will see that I incorporated a good deal of FT2s work into my revision.  You will also see that at the end of my revision I included a good deal of FT2's work, which I had mot been able to incorporate onto my version, but which I thought would be unfair simply to delete.  Tigermoon either did not read the material carefully, or is being very unfair to me.  Second, she says FT@s version is better.  Well, please explain how/in what way?  On the talk page I have over a dozen specific problems with FT2s version (FT2's Ultimate Version) but so far no one -- FT2, Amgring, Tigermoon -- has responded to my critique.  Amgine at least had the integrity and courtesy to provide a list of problems with my version.  I think he is wrong but respect his gesture.  I made specific replies to shwo why I thought he was wrong.  Mine need not be the last word.  Why can't Tigermoon or others contine the process of dialogue Amgrine so reasonably initiated? Slrubenstein
Note to reader (who may at this stage have lost the will to live/track of what is going on) - (Copied from elsewhere, but written by me) "Since Slrubenstein repeatedly refuses to apologise or comply with the Wikipedia:Civility policy, I hearby regard him as a non-person, as specified as an appropriate course of action in the Civility policy"  CheeseDreams 21:55, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: CheeseDreams, if you're looking for an apology for something SLR said about the appearance of a couple of your remarks, well, I cannot recall a single instance in the course of this debate in which you have apologized for anything at all, or admitted to any trivial error however slight. (I would  of course be happy to be correct, as I will admit to having some difficulty keeping up with the conversation, let alone the edits.) I think it's time to drop that and move on. Although a number of editors are unhappy with some of SLR's edits or "process violations" he might have committed, I'm not aware of anyone else who thinks that shunning him is the appropriate response. Wesley 00:13, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: You will also not be able to recall any instance of me calling someone a racist. CheeseDreams 20:44, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

text: In addition see the Wikipedia:Civility policy, where one is advised to ignore the uncivil individual. CheeseDreams 20:46, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

text: Be assured I will, at least once I find time to a) find such an edit; and b) find time to tell you. I didn't have anything specific in mind when I wrote the above, other than the general objections to your large edit following FT2's request for comments before editing. Regarding that edit, you obviously disregarded FT2's request, but I think you were well within Wikipedia's general "edit boldly" policy. Either way, I'd rather get on with discussing the article than arguing over process. Wesley 04:50, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

text: Tigermoon only came on here because I asked him to comment on something as a favour, he has very little time and not that much interest for Wikipedia, so don't expect him to have masses of edits. CheeseDreams 20:44, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

text: He is an ex.CheeseDreams 21:29, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

text: Dear reader, an ability to remember what one has written often prevents stupid accusations. For example "On the talk page I have over a dozen specific problems with FT2s version (FT2's Ultimate Version) but so far no one ....... has responded to my critique." CheeseDreams 00:08, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tigermoon