Talk:East Timor/Archive 1

message: As this is the English version of Wikipedia, I think all place names and words should be spelled using their Tetum spellings, but without accents. See Liquica and other names that currently are being spelled with accents. 
You never see place names from other parts of the world spelled in English with accents. I do not however think they should be anglicised, just trimmed of punctuation that is not used in English.--202.72.106.20 04:55, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree. A number of other places are almost always written with accents, like Yaoundé or Côte d'Ivoire (the last is often called "the Ivory Coast," but very seldom "Cote d'Ivoire"). I think that only those places which are well-established in English get written without accents. Dili, since it receives the most attention, can be written that way, but I don't think the other cities can be. In particular, Liquiçá looks very odd without the cedilla on the c, as one would assume it was pronounced very differently. (Most of the preferred spellings with accents are Portuguese, not Tetum; for example in Tetum Liquiçá is Likisá)Rigadoun 00:01, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spelling: Accents & Place Names 

message: this articles gives way too much importance to malay and English. That are used for communitation between People because many people speak Indonesian, while only some speak Portuguese or Tetum, what is greatly changing. And being working language for communication betweeen people that speak several languages  it doesnt give any status to Malay or English has the article is trying to give.
;REPÚBLICA DEMOCRÁTICA DE TIMOR-LESTE
:GOVERNO
____________________
:Decreto n.o 1 /2004
:de 14 de Abril
:Artigo 3.º
:Âmbito de implementação
:1.      O Padrão Ortográfico de Tétum Oficial deve ser seguido no sistema geral de educação, nas publicações oficiais e na comunicação social.
:2.      Deve ser dada prioridade ao uso do Tétum Oficial e do português na iconografia e sinalização públicas.
:3.    O inglês e o malaio-indonésio como simples línguas de trabalho, não devem ser utilizados na iconografia e sinalização públicas a menos que acompanhados de textos em tétum e português com visível proeminência.
;translation
:Democratic Republic of East Timor
:Government
:decree nº1 2004
:April 14
:3rd Article
:Implementation
:1. (...)
2. It should be given priority to the use of Oficial Tetum and Portuguese in the iconography and public signalling
3. English and Indonesian-Malay has simple working languages, should not be used in the iconography and public signalling unless they are accompanied by texts in Tetum and Portuguese with visible proeminence.
;INSTITUTO NACIONAL DE LINGUÍSTICA 
:Requisitos previstos na Política de Língua do Estado
O seu plano-projecto deverá também ter em conta os seguintes aspectos: (a) A língua malaia-indonésia e o inglês não possuem qualquer estatuto em Timor Leste, pelo que não são consideradas fundamentais para a cultura nacional; (b) O ensino do inglês como língua estrangeira, embora encorajado dentro de determinados limites, não é uma prioridade da política educativa do governo, que procura restaurar e promover línguas de importância nacional, anteriormente reprimidas e colocadas em perigo. Como tal, o ensino do inglês e do indonésio não será autorizado a competir com ou a sobrepor-se ao ensino do português e do tétum.
Parte-se do princípio que os concorrentes possuem competência linguística em português, e preferencialmente em tétum, assim como outra língua de trabalho relevante. Estes requisitos supõem também a conversação fluente em tétum e/ou português.
; translation
:National Institute of Linguistics
:... state language policy
(...)
:a) the Indonesian-Malay language and English have any status in East Timor, thus they are not considered fundamental to the national culture;
:b) The teaching of English has a foreign language, is backed within certain limits, it is not a priority of the educational policy of the government, which searches to restore and promote languages with nationwide importance, which were repressed in the past and became endangered. therefore, the teaching of English and Indonesian is not authorized to compete with or overlap to the teaching of Portuguese and Tetum.
(...)
:English and Indonesian are defined in
:PART VII
:FINAL AND TRANSITIONAL PROVISIONS (East Timor Constitution) 
....
It was I believe the second time I've correct the country from which East Timor gained independence.  And now this... I was hoping that someone would correct it but noone did nor the language nether the history nor the overimportance of the working languages. Nether the very recent problems between the Church and the government has a paragraph in here...
new studies say that the number of Portuguese speakers more than doubled in the last 5 yrs (today 25% of the population speak it) due to it being repressed in the past it is popular and due to Portuguese-Brazilian cooperation. You can read that in the International Portuguese Language Institute website:  -Pedro 01:32, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Status of Malay-Indonesian and English in East Timor 

message: The paragraph beginning with "A major earthquake..." in the introduction doesn't seem to fit the content of an encyclopedia article.  Wouldn't information like this more rather go under a "recent events" heading rather than the article introduction?  -MadmanNova 08:11, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed - I'm going to remove it entirely. I think it's a pretty minor event, really, and doesn't belong in the article about the entire country. CDC (talk) 16:23, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  earthquake 

message: Shouldn't this really be moved to Timor Leste.?  -fonzy
:I am in the process of writing to the State Department as if they use East Timor or Timor Leste to refer to the State. Depending on what I get back from them, Let's move the page then. - hoshie
::So? I'd argue that the issue of East Timor vs. Timor-Leste is comparable to Ivory Coast vs. Côte d'Ivoire - the state's government officially asked only to be called by its local name in international relations, so I'd say it should be Timor-Leste... Nightstallion 19:10, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree. Timor Leste is how they prefer to call themselves, East Timor is perceived to be Indonesia-centric. Tagasilab 10:33, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  I just noticed that the World Almanac lists East Timor as Timor-Leste now in the 2006 edition. I highly recommend a move. -- Earl Andrew - talk 06:09, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Hm.. maybe, maybe not. See discussion and voting further down (I have already cast my vote, but now I'm less sure and more "neutral/undecided"). Tagasibal, in what way is the English name East Timor "Indonesia-centric"? To me, that would seem illogical. //Big Adamsky 15:50, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The article's name: East Timor, Timor-Leste, Timor Timur or Timor Lorosa'e? 

message: Due to her potential submarine oil fields, the tiny country currently runs the risk of becoming a puppet state like Panama and the Republic of Texas. Some even think that petroleum made the Western countries, especially Australia and the U.S., separate East Timor from Indonesia.
I'm still laughing about the puppet state of Republic of Texas.
Cheers!
User:Marco Neves
This could probably be rephrased but I think asking questions about Western support for a potentially oil-rich aspirant nation like Timor Leste and not for oil-less occupied territories such as Tibet, Western Sahara etc is pretty valid. For the record, the Republic of Texas was an oil-rich state whose independence from Mexico was supported by the USA in the hope of securing access to its oil - seems a valid example to me. Esquimo 16:32, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was wondering why was the article on East Timor renamed to Timor Leste? Has the country changed its name recently or should it always have been Timor Leste?  Is Timor Leste, Portuguese for East Timor or does the name have another origin? I have only every heard the country called East Timor. -- Popsracer 11:14, 12 Sep 2003 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who wrote this incredible piece of text? 

message: Take a look at Template talk:East Timor infobox for a little background. The info box mentiones (outdated) information put in by a very persistent anon user who isnt exactly vandalizing, but more a little clueless. The info box as it is now messes up the article with his footnotes. All attempts to communicate with this person has been in vain as he does not respond to any communication. So I leave it up to the editors of this article to resolve what to do about it. Thank you. Inter\Echo 16:38, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The infobox 

message: Isn't it independance from Indonesia in 2002 and POrtugal in the 1940's which only lasted something like 7 days
[anonymous]
*LOL. --Pedro 30 June 2005 02:35 (UTC)
* I laughed but he is wright (except on the 1940s thinkg eheh), everybody thinks that. I think we should put a note that East Timor was never part of Indonesia, it was just an unrecognized invasion, so it couldnt gain indepencence from a country to which it was not part of.-Pedro 30 June 2005 16:39 (UTC)
* I agree.  Shouldn't the independence be from Indonesia in 2002?  According to the current article: Lisbon effectively abandoned East Timor, which unilaterally declared itself independent on November 28, 1975.  So, I ask, who controlled the territory from 1975-2002?  Which country's army was there?  Which country claimed to be have control?  Is the answer to any of these questions Portugal?  It seems to me that Indonesia was the (colonial?) master during these years.  Whether or not it was recognised, how does that change the facts on the ground? -DJK
** Plz sign your comments. East Timor declared its independence in 1975 and was invaded by Indonesia. It never bacame part of Indonesia. BTW, the Country did made its 30 yrs anniversery some days ago... Portugal did not recognized its independence because it would mean it would accept East Timor's integration in Indonesia, by not accepting the independence, it meant that it was still a dependency of Portugal (which the UN recognized as such). This is the reason why the there was made a referendum. Portugal was invaded by Napoleon, that doesnt meant that the country was part of France, at any time. It was "just" an invasion. If people invade your house, that doesnt mean your house is theirs.
*** On maps common in North America made between 1975 and 2000, East Timor was usually shown as a part of Indonesia.  Indonesia claimed it was a part of Indonesia (which surely doesn't make it so).  As for Napoleon, he also invaded the Netherlands and Dalmatia, and those countries were a part of France, again at least on current North American maps.  If people invade my house, move in, and live there for 25 years, a lot of people will surely think it's their house. -DJK
US maps are still not the auhority in international recognitions and status. The UN nver regonised the Indonesions invations, nor th nilateral declartions of independence. --BBird 11:51, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Indepedence form Portugal? 

message: "An interesting point of culture is that it is duty for adult women in East Timor to remove all body hair (except on the head), even the hair on their forearms."
To me, this seems like a very oddly specific piece of information to put into a general summary of East Timor's culture. Why mention only women's hair removal habits - if hair removal is relevant at all shouldn't men be included too? I'm sure that none of the articles about Western countries mention the fact that most Western women remove their leg hair, or that many Western men shave their faces. There is an article about depilation where this might be relevant, but I really don't see the point of it here. --203.102.247.40 02:22, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Culture: Hair Removal 

message: "September 20 Liberation Day by UN forces in 1999 "
There were no UN forces in Timor until much later in the campaign. Timor Leste was liberated by Australian led INTERFET forces in September of '99. The UN should not be given credit for an action in which it took no part.
:Quite right, I've fixed the article. It was said at the time that the UN was happy to participate in peacekeeping, but not "peace-enforcing". They didn't (and still don't) have the resources to conduct a serious military operation. -- Tim Starling 23:56, August 25, 2005 (UTC)
::INTERFET was the UN-given name of a UN-sponsored action led by Australia... Best regards, Marco Neves 06:44, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Liberation day 

message: This has been discussed twice before, but anyway, my next attempt. Timor-Leste is the English name of this country in the same way that Côte d'Ivoire is the English name of Côte d'Ivoire. East Timor is, just like Ivory Coast for Côte d'Ivoire, one of the former names of the country. Confer this, this or this. I propose moving the article to Timor-Leste; the government and people of Timor-Leste apparently want to be referred to by that name. —  ナイトスタリオン ㇳ–ㇰ — 15:25, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree completely. I've put the move tag above, hopefully it gets attention. —Cantus…☎ 22:02, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Did you also put it on Requested moves? —  ナイトスタリオン ㇳ–ㇰ — 09:03, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

text: I tried to make my point regarding Timor-Leste and Czechia here. Wish me luck. —  ナイトスタリオン ㇳ–ㇰ — 22:37, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Official name 

message: :The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
East Timor → Timor Leste
Apparent page-move-request orphan: gained template and some ad hoc discussion, but no listing on WP:RM.  Alai 02:14, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation, then sign your vote with ~~~~
===Support===
# Support. --bainer (talk) 05:54, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

text: I might, if it were under a move discussion, prefer Ivory Coast, but for a couple of reasons: 1) "Côte d'Ivoire" is somewhat more common in English use than "Timor-Leste" is. 2) Côte d'Ivoire has been at that name for quite some time as this article has been here for some time. If other factors are equal, I prefer to leave articles where they are, as moves do create work and can surprise editors and readers. Jonathunder 01:40, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: By the way, I do not even agree about "Côte d'Ivoire"; I guess it should be moved to Ivory Coast instead... This is English Wikipedia, not a international version. Even in Italy we say "Costa d'Avorio", not "Cote d'Ivoire"... --Angelo 18:39, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

text: So because the government of a country decides it wants to be called something else, every language in the world should kowtow to their desires.  Hawaiian has no "r" "s" or "t", nor does it permit consonant clusters, nor syllable-final consonants.  The closest Hawaiian could come to this ridiculous demand is Kimolu-Lekike.  I wonder how the government of Timor-Leste (Portuguese, as it happens, for "Timor the East") would react.  It seems to me that it would make a lot more sense for them to demand to be called Timor Timur.   Tomertalk 19:05, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 

message: # Support. --bainer (talk) 05:54, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Support

message: # Oppose, East Timor is "common English translation" of Timor Leste (which is Portuguese, Portuguese being the language promoted by the government of this country - "East" in English = "Leste" in Portuguese, see http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/east#Translations ); for further argumentation see Wikipedia:Naming conflict#Proper nouns and Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (common names)#Specific cases. --Francis Schonken 12:26, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Oppose

message: * See also this one: http://pt.wiktionary.org/wiki/Timor_Leste#Tradu.C3.A7.C3.A3o  Translated: the Portuguese Wiktionary says that the English translation of "Timor Leste" is "East Timor"... ;) --Francis Schonken 12:55, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I might, if it were under a move discussion, prefer Ivory Coast, but for a couple of reasons: 1) "Côte d'Ivoire" is somewhat more common in English use than "Timor-Leste" is. 2) Côte d'Ivoire has been at that name for quite some time as this article has been here for some time. If other factors are equal, I prefer to leave articles where they are, as moves do create work and can surprise editors and readers. Jonathunder 01:40, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: By the way, I do not even agree about "Côte d'Ivoire"; I guess it should be moved to Ivory Coast instead... This is English Wikipedia, not a international version. Even in Italy we say "Costa d'Avorio", not "Cote d'Ivoire"... --Angelo 18:39, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

text: So because the government of a country decides it wants to be called something else, every language in the world should kowtow to their desires.  Hawaiian has no "r" "s" or "t", nor does it permit consonant clusters, nor syllable-final consonants.  The closest Hawaiian could come to this ridiculous demand is Kimolu-Lekike.  I wonder how the government of Timor-Leste (Portuguese, as it happens, for "Timor the East") would react.  It seems to me that it would make a lot more sense for them to demand to be called Timor Timur.   Tomertalk 19:05, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion

message: I just pulled this text from the history section:
Recently, the Colombian pop star Shakira recorded a protest song entitled "Timor". The song, written and composed by the singer, tells about how the Western midia gave importance to the East Timor Independence case a few years ago, and how the same midia does nothing for the country on recent days.
I don't see this as a major event in Timorian history, but I'm prepared to listen to arguments to the contrary.  What do you all think?  --Dvyost 08:15, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: That makes more sense to me--thanks!  --Dvyost 20:47, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shakira song 

message: We are looking for speakers of Tetum (ideally, native speakers) that may cooperate in the launching of a Tetum version of the Wikipedia. Visit the test page of the Tetum Wikipedia and support this project (click in Tetum). Regards  --82.102.25.163 01:22, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia in Tetum 

message: Though it is true, I think stating East Timor as the poorest country in the world in the first sentence makes it sound as if it is the defining feature of this nation. It is not. I changed it and created a new paragraph explaining the fact and also stating its relative position regarding HDI.
Best regards,
Marco Neves 14:54, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Poorest country in the world 

message: -edit-
Based on the central UN, UNDP and Governmental documents I have change the area to 14609 km2
(instead of the current CIA-factbook version)
-edit-
The area of East-Timor varies between sources, being 14600-18900 km2.
Sources supporting 18900 km2:
Government of Timor Leste website http://www.timor-leste.gov.tl/AboutTimorleste/ExploreTL.htm
United Nations Timor Leste website (rounded up 19000 km2) http://www.unagencies.east-timor.org/facts_on_timor_leste/statistics.html
Sources supporting 15007 km2:
CIA factboot https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/tt.html
Sources supporting 14919 km2:
United Nation Development Program, Timor-Leste Human Development Report 2006
Sources supporting 14609 km2:
National Geographic country profile http://plasma.nationalgeographic.com/mapmachine/profiles/tt.html
Timor Leste Government National Development Plan (www.tl.undp.org)
Most of the UN-missions' (UNTAET, UNMISET, UNOTIL) documents I've cheched (www.unotil.org)
ps. By January 2006 4% of the land border between Indonesia and East Timor was still not agreed on.
Simohell 06:52, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just for reference, the 14,874 figure is from the UN Demographic Yearbook (2003) edition. It is also the figure used by the UN Statistical Division for environmental statistics, for example here. --Polaron | Talk 15:41, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would still assume that UNOTIL and National Development Plan would have more recent information. Since 14874 wss already published before the border agreement signed while Horta was visiting 37th ASEAN Ministerial Meeting in June 2004. Then 90% of the borderline was agreed, apparently moving the borderline in some places.Simohell 16:38, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Area according to which source? 

message: Some statistics change quite often. How are we going to update them? According to official sources, estimates (and by whos?).
As a noted in my previous comment the land-area has competing figures even within the different UN-sources (UN-TL, UNDP-TL).
UNDP published a HDI for 2004 in Timor-Leste Human Development Report recently (0,426), but this does not quite allow for ranking, since the comparison HDIs for most countrries are from 2003.
Simohell 06:59, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Updating frequency and policy? 

message: Shouldn't this article use metric measurements first, because the official languages of East Timor are Tetum and Portuguese, and every single non-English-speaking country in the world is fully metric? JIP | Talk 18:50, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The majority of English-speaking nations are metric as well. Yes, metric measurements should take priority in this article.--cj | talk 16:49, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, only the US is fully non-metric, and Canada and the UK have maintained confusing mixes of metric and non-metric (in Canada it's an issue of linguistic pride as Quebec is fully metric :)) As for the original contention, non-metric units, unless part of a quote, really shouldn't be there at all IMO on a non-US article. Orderinchaos78 22:58, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Measurements 

message: Earlier today an anonymous contributor deleted a phrase from the history section of this page that partially implicated Indonesian forces with the ongoing violence in the country. I have not reverted the edit but the footnote from the BBC that I attached to the article clearly states that, "Many in [the Timorese army and police] ranks lack basic policing skills. A core contingent which does have experience from the Indonesian police is resented by the rest."
While maintaining a NPOV attitude for this article, I'd like to manage a compromise that would show that Indonesians (but perhaps not Indonesia itself) are still important powers in East Timor and are contributing to the violence. 
Suggestions? Potashnik 00:20, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suspected Indonesian Connections with Current Crisis in Timor 

message: This article and Timor-Leste have been both edit and move protected to force discussion on the issue of its title.--cj | talk 17:49, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nonetheless, it's in bad form to protect pages dealing with Current Events. 68.32.48.42 15:58, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, very bad form.  I have seen pages without protection that have seen far more editing than this one.  Remove the protection. Enzedbrit 20:55, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  This one might be different though as that it is the actually title and hence location of the article that is up for question (and repeated revert war of attrition) – not so much the content.--Merbabu 23:41, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: To clarify, the page was only move-protected, but then someone manually cut-and-paste merged this article to another title, and turned this page into a redirect. That is why Cyberjunkie chose to full protect the article. --bainer (talk) 00:48, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  OK thanks for info. Is it then possible to keep the move-protect (and hence East Timor title) but re-open the page for editing within it’s current location/name?? --Merbabu 01:22, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protection 

message: I have nominated this article for the WP:AID. It could be a good platform to have this article elevated to feature status. If anyone wants to support or comment on this nomination they may do so at  the East Timor nomination --Francisco Valverde 14:59, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  AID Nomination 

message: This section is slowly but steadily getting larger. We should be careful that it doesn’t get larger and that changes merely update old information with new. And it should only give the general idea, not go into pages of detail.  Firstly because the crisis already has it’s own article where the details should go (see link) and secondly, but more importantly, we don’t want to give the crisis too much space in comparison with the rest of East Timor’s history. Sure, it is in the news a lot right now, but so far there is nothing to suggest that it will become anywhere near as important historically as say the Indonesian invasion and the independence struggle. What do others think?  --Merbabu 00:00, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, it should essentially be a one-paragraph summary of 2006 East Timor crisis. --bainer (talk) 00:07, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  2006 Crisis 

message: Its wrong writed. its not 2006 crisis but Politic militar crisis.
Before you write about history of a nation you should know wright the history of that nation. thanks..--Ivan Zeruwsky (talk) 16:48, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  not 2006 

message: As of June 3, 2006, East Timor is no longer the world's newest independent sovereign state. Based on the results of a referendum held on May 21, 2006, Montenegro declared independence on June 3, 2006. As of June 2006, it is the newest sovereign state in the world, and is awaiting international recognition.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.215.31.218 (talk) 09:39, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Montenegro|Montenegrin]] [[Declaration of Independence]] [[June 3]] [[2006]] 

message: On June 5, 2006, Serbia has formally declared its independence in response to Montenegro's vote to secede,which officially confirms the union of Serbia and Montenegro's break-up. At a special televised meeting, the National Assembly of Serbia declared Serbia the legal successor to the defunct union of Serbia and Montenegro with 126 MPs voting in favour, with none against.
This makes Serbia (and not Montenegro anymore) technically as of June 5 2006 the world's newest sovereign state.
East Timor has already lost the title both de jure and de facto as the newest sovereign state since June 3, 2006 with Montenegro's Declaration of Independence. Since June 5, 2006 East Timor is the world's third newest sovereign state.
From the [] - (www.news.bbc.co.uk/(BBC News) website
:Serbia is not a new state, but the successor of SiM, which is the successor of the FRY. Montenegro is the newest state. —Nightstallion (?) 13:18, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Exactly right - Serbia's "independence" is by default - declaration is a matter for national pride more than anything else IMO. The institutions of state all exist but a change in the stationery is necessary, as well as of course electoral and budget changes, whereas Montenegro now has to create new primary-level institutions to replace or complement its second-level ones, and East Timor essentially started with zip. So Montenegro, then East Timor. Orderinchaos78 23:03, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Serbian]] [[Declaration of Independence]] [[June 5]] [[2006]] 

message: Why is this tag here? Where is the point of view subject matter? I'm not saying it's inappropriate, just wanting to make sure it really should be there. I will remove it soon if there is no-one has any reasonable objections. --Merbabu 06:52, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I am inclined to agree -- where is the POV controversy?  This is one topic that should be relatively straightforward.  The inter-generational tension between Portuguese and Indonesian is easily described, as is the shift from one country name to another (all of which conveniently mean the same thing).  A-giau 03:47, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree and will remove the tag. Ashmoo 04:00, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Point of View Check" tag 

message: While generally good, the 'Indonesians' section needs a few little tweaks. Could someone in the know, take a look at these problems?:
The East Timorese guerrilla forces, known as Falintil, fought a guerrilla campaign against the Indonesian forces from 1975 to 1999. Their casualties were relatively light compared to those they inflicted upon the Indonesian military.
Who estimated the Falintil casualties? We really need numbers here, so that the reader can determine what 'reasonably light' means.
However the Indonesians generally took their frustrations out on the civilian population, often torturing and killing claiming that they were 'helping the rebels'.
This summation of the Indonesians motivations definitely needs a source. And attributing their actions to 'frustration' borders on POV.
 
From 1975 until 1993, attacks on civilian populations were only nominally reported in the Western press.
What does 'nominally reported' mean? 
Ashmoo 04:00, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Indonesian section 

message: -Colonial Portuguese documents says Timor is in Oceania (I can cite meticulously one by one), Encyclopedias like Delta Larousse says Timor is in Oceania, and Timor is part of the Pacific Islands Forum. Why it can not be classified Asia/Oceania?? Turkey, Israel and Mexico many times receives this kind of double classification. Timor has a strong melanesian culture, even the resemblance of the natives with those from Papua New Guinea or Australia is evident. Even in political arena, the movement for a free Irian Jaya sees East Timor as a kind of a brother Melanesian state.
I DEFEND A DOUBLE CLASSIFICATION, Asia/Oceania, a transition region.
Emerson 189.41.197.75  23:03, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  NO PERIOD AT ALL 

message: Can anybody repair the infobox of the articles about the districts of East Timor? I don't know how to do this. Since there are new (bigger) maps, the whole box went wild. Same in Portuguese and Tetun-Wikipedia! Thank you, --J. Patrick Fischer 10:20, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Editing articles about districts