Talk:Saint George and the Dragon

message: St George is both possibly a real Roman mounted cavalier soldier and “saviour”. He is known to have died in Lydda (Lod) in 303 BCE. It is most possible that he achieved “saviour status” by killing a Striped Hyena and rescuing this small town from attack by predatory hyenas, possibly killing the dominant hyena of the pack. Such hyena attacks were well known in these times and up until the 19C when these animals became endangered and extinct in Palestine. They still inhabit forested valleys north of Beirut where possibly less than 100 animals remain. When attacked they change colouration (to zebra stripes) and raise a mane along the length of their backs in a “dragon-like” mode. They have very powerful jaws that can snap a human limb with ease. There is a Levantine tradition of villagers sacrificing sheep and goats to them, as well as telling their children bedtime stories of their fierce nature.
The Crusaders may have encountered them in the Holy Lands but considered them “dragons” (early images are hyena-like) and picked up the mythology of veneration by both Christians (of St George) and Muslims (of Al Khadr). He is still venerated by both in Lydda (Lod) to this date. He is further venerated in Palestine, Syria and Lebanon for whom he is a patron and national saint (coinciding with the exact bio-historic hunting range areas of the Levantine Hyena).
I learnt the truth about the “dragon” on a visit to Lydda years ago with my father, but which is not to say that I want to spoil a “good story”, and I have a grandson called George! However much of St George hagiography is made-up of medieval myths created by clerics and monks in the Middle Ages but is also associated with wonderful art, icons and human culture.
St George and the Hyena does not sound as exciting, but is possibly actually true! Also spare a thought for this very endangered mammal in the Lebanon (now acknowledged as its national animal). Enjoy St George’s Day and do fly his flag!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pocacapapetl (talk • contribs) 17:33, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: untitled

message: Since my last change to remove the line "Dracula of course means dragon" was reverted with "Wiktionary disagrees", I figured I'd put some justification here.
First, what Wiktionary says under Etymology:
:From the name Vlad III Dracula (also known as Vlad Tepes), from his father's name Vlad II Dracul, who was given the name Dracul by the Order of the Dragon. Dracul comes from the Romanian drac, originally meaning dragon and coming from the Latin draco.
So, what Wiktionary actually says is that Dracula is derived from Dracul, and it is Dracul that means "dragon".  Further, from the Vlad Tepes article:
:His Romanian surname Drakyula (also spelled "Drăculea", "Dracula"), by which Vlad was referred to in several documents, means "son of the dragon", in reference to his father, Vlad Dracul
So, in summary: "Dracul" means "Dragon" or "Devil", and "Dracula" means "Son of Dracul".  Therefore, it is incorrect to include the line "Dracula of course meaning dragon".
-- g026r (talk) 22:37, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: "Dracula"

message: It seems to me that most European dragons are show as being larger than a house, while Saint George's dragon is almost always show much, much smaller. Why is this? 70.20.232.141 18:07, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Small-ish Dragon

message: What about claims that it's a true story and that the Dragon was a Baryonyx?
:As old as the Proto-Indo-European Mythologies that are at the root of this are, they aren't that old  —Preceding unsigned comment added by LamontCranston (talk • contribs) 11:13, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Based on a true story (& I don't mean Hollywood style), quite possibly. Baryonyx? Given how long ago St George lived any dragon/dinosaur he/whomever may have slain is not going to be identifiable. Insufficient historical evidence to determine anything and oral history/mythology lacks value. Just look at the difficulties prooving the existence of and identifying the location of the 'mythical' Troy. 118.208.145.121 (talk) 05:01, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Baryonyx 

message: I've read in a couple of books that 'in fact' George did not kill the dragon. Instead, he converted it to Christianity, and, perhaps, persuaded it to become a vegetarian. These tales were presented as the 'correct' version of the story, implying that it is merely a myth (ironically) that George slew the dragon. I've never understood what they meant (as it's all just a legend anyway) or where they got this idea from. Has anyone else encountered this? It has troubled for some time so even if we don't come up with something for the article I hope at least my mind can be set to rest! Wikiwikiwoolgar (talk) 17:37, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vegetarian/Christian Dragon 

message: It needs serious clean up. It sounds like it's just telling the story, not encyclopeadic at all. Even the telling is pretty bad. "The daughter was sent out to the lake, decked out as a bride,"  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.99.218.140 (talk) 20:36, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  The legend section 

message: I reacted to the sentence saying that some historians claim that the legend is based on pagan myths. I did a short googling and found at least 3 reliable references, BBC, a Brittish history site and the Catholic Encyclipedia (the latter refuting the claim and naming one such historian, if he can be called such. Do what you like with this information. I rarely edit here anymore because I always get complaints, but these links could be added as sources and to name at least one person who claims that the legend of S:t George comes from pre-Christian pagan sources.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/saints/george_1.shtml
http://www.anglobilia.com/legends/stgeorge.html
"In any case the late occurrence of this development refutes the attempts made to derive it from pagan sources. Hence it is certainly not true, as stated by Hartland, that in George's person "the Church has converted and baptized the pagan hero Perseus" (The Legend of Perseus, iii, 38)."
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06453a.htm
/ Benzocaine (talk) 16:45, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pre Christian sources? 

message: Does the dragon actually have a name in any texts?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.169.212.143 (talk) 09:13, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name 

message: The article focuses on the western tradition of St George and the Dragon, but neglects the origin of this story in Eastern Orthodox tradition.
The summary section says "The earliest known depictions of the motif are from tenth- or eleventh-century Cappadocia[2] and eleventh-century Georgia;[3]", but this is not covered elsewhere in the article.  The footnotes should be pulled into a section (perhaps best named "Origins") with more information from the cited references and other sources.  Then the "Origins" section, which currently covers other similar stories, should probably be renamed something like "Related Stories" ★NealMcB★ (talk) 15:02, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Needs more Eastern Orthodox perspective and detail on the concrete origins of this story 

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thread_title: File:St George and the Dragon by Brian Whelan.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

message: It seems to me to be a bit of a leap to claim that just because the character King Lear mentions a dragon, that the reference is in any way connected to the "St. George and the Dragon" legend.  A "dragon" is of course a well-known mythological creature.  If there are scholarly arguments concerning why this is specifically a reference related to St. George they should be mentioned; otherwise as far as I'm concerned this is a completely unfounded statement.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.196.248.241 (talk) 11:15, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  King Lear - Jumping to Conclusions? 

message: You might want to be a little more specific, since "Southern Hemisphere" could mean anything from Africa to South America to Polynesia to Australasia, and as someone who grew up down that way, I can say for damn sure we never got taught anything about St. George in the moon. -118.168.4.32 (talk) 08:01, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  In the Southern Hemisphere? 

message: The Redcrosse Knight is revealed to be St. George, so shouldn't The Faerie Queene be mentioned? 206.87.106.123 (talk) 20:37, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Faerie Queen 

message: The opening sentence does not define the subject of the article as it should. 86.152.162.108 (talk) 04:36, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lacking definition 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I counted 17 different images--does the article really need that many? Downwiththesyndrome (talk) 07:17, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: It doesn't seem excessive for a very visual subject. Johnbod (talk) 14:00, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry my reply is so late. I was just thinking that some of these images are similar, and maybe the ones that don't add something new could be removed. I found some similar articles here, here, and and here, and I believe each are effective with less than 17 pictures. But if the community says this article has just the right amount of files, then I guess that's just my problem, as I probably haven't been active long enough challenge this. Downwiththesyndrome (talk) 01:24, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

text: Unfortunately the verifiability of vast numbers of images on Commons is low or non-existent, unless you happen to know. too many to do anything much about. Johnbod (talk) 13:51, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Images 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: The Magic Sword 1962
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056211/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Magic_Sword_(1962_film)
Dragonslayer 1981
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082288/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonslayer_(1981_film)
George and the Dragon (TV series)George and the Dragon 2004
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0306892/
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_and_the_Dragon 108.201.133.87 (talk) 15:18, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing film adaptations