Talk:Chandraseniya Kayastha Prabhu

message: Please update this article I think more information is to be added...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.95.128.108 (talk) 09:04, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Needs an Update 

message: What is the present population of CKPs in various places?
203.212.219.143 22:56, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: ==

message: Thanks a lot for this kind of a valuable information on CKP. It is indeed very encouraging and interesting to know so much about your origin and ethnicity. I am a CKP too!!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.216.4.15 (talk) 21:55, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: ==

message: I have done a deep study of castes from Maharashtra.
Kindly refrain from making derogatory libelous statements against any community.
Do NOT confuse CKPs with Kayasthas from north.
All Kayasthas hold different status and the status differed depending on region.
In general, the article(wikipedia) is very biased against CKPs. Based on social status they are more comparable to brahmins
and brahmins(priests including Shankaracharyas) do consider them a very high caste(see below). They are closer to Brahmins than to Kshyatriyas(see below).
1)http://archive.org/stream/ethnographicalno00chanrich/ethnographicalno00chanrich_djvu.txt mentiones the Kshyatriya status
and the decend from Chandrasen makes them Rajvanshi(royal).
2)The CKPs even today follow the munj(thread ceremony) and have gotras from Rishis
Reference:above and also the printed book cited in wikipedia
3)The word Prabhu means Lord (Reference: Marathi dictionary). This indicates higher status by itself.
4)Not as proof but just a general statement: I have personally attended thread ceremonies (upanayanams)
of several CKPs. The only other communities that has upanayanams(munj in marathi) are the brahmins and saraswats in Maharashtra.
5) 'Arranged Marriages' between brahmins and CKPs and saraswats's are quite common these days. 
(Reference: Check any marriage bureau listings specific to maharashtra and see the pattern]
6)Shankaracharya, in a letter  in the Bombay gazette has clearly clairified the rajvanshi Khyatriya status.{ref:Bombay Gazette]
7)Please do not confuse them with north indian  Kayasthas. They were originally called Prabhus [Bombay Gazette] - not kayasthas.
8) CKPs are considered as a mix between brahmin and Kshatriyas [see B Gazatte] due to the history of Royalty(Chandrasen)
as well as being vedadhikaris after the thread ceremony.
Other than brahmins and saraswat's in maharashtra, CKPs are the only caste in which thread ceremony(called munj in marathi) is done.
{references: maratha history and well as above references and common knowledge in maharashtra]
9)Many instances of warriors like  Baji Prabhu Deshpande.
American Engineer MS (talk) 17:19, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  social status 

message: All the recent changes and the convinient deletion of content looks like attmpt at hiding a some facts for glorifying some individuals. 
FOJ12345 (talk) 07:09, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent CHanges 

message: "CKP" shouldn't redirect here automatically. Of all the many things "CKP" could stand for, this is definitely not even remotely close to being the most general. "Certificate in Knowledge of Policing" seems to show up most commonly on Google searches. 62.189.73.197 (talk) 09:03, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Redirect 

message: Substituted at 11:15, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: I am tempted to revert this article to this version because subsequent contributions have made a general mess of things, introducing poor sources, tangential points and possible synthesis.  I don't understand how someone who has been editing for so long can make so many simple mistakes but I find myself cleaning up after you pretty much every time your name pops up. It is as if you are still unaware of WP:REFPUNCT and how to cite stuff. - Sitush (talk) 12:35, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Turning into a mess 

message: Some surnames removed why so surnames section  SP2705 (talk) 13:27, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Surnames in caste articles are almost always removed. They are rarely unique to the caste, the lists are WP:INDISCRIMINATE in that pretty much any surname can be adopted by anyone, they add nothing for the reader except to mislead them into stereotyping, and they attract a lot of unsourced edits by clueless people. There really does have to be an extremely good reason to include such things. - Sitush (talk) 13:51, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  Too much spam(unsourced edits) on the meaningless surnames section going on. Removed it as per talk. Acharya63 (talk) 08:51, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Surnames removed 

message: Reasons:
1. No value as pointed out by Sitush.
2. People come and frequently edit it(add, remove) names based on their personal knowledge - obviously with good intentions - but without citing any sources.
3. Many of these names are also found in other communities (eg. Marathi Brahmins). 
4. Most other equivalent articles on Wikipedia do not have a 'surname' section.
Acharya63 (talk) 08:25, 13 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should we remove the surnames section? 

message: , do not remove sourced sentences. I have gone through your edit histories, and you have problems with content that is sourced but not to your liking. Another editor deleted a source and requested a quote for thread ceremony/vedas etc. So sources were provided. No new text  other than the word janeu was added - duplicate content was moved in lead but no content was moved from body to lead. Please review the edit. The quote was provided simply because another editor asked for it. NO NEW TEXT WAS ADDED TO LEAD. Why did you remove sourced content from body? Next time you shall be reported without warning. Massachusetts is beautiful (talk) 13:13, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hellow  thanks for the quote but I am not able to verify the quote from KS Singh. can you please provide me the page no from Singh regarding janeu ceremony of them? And it will be nice if we have two or more sources on this, thank you. Blueicecube (talk) 13:30, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Blueicecube, Good morning. It is page 2083 from oxford University press. The source already existed on the page. I did not add it. I only referenced it in the lead from the body as per your request. Actually, vedokta is a marathi word for rights to study/teach vedas for which thread ceremony is a prerequisite. I can add more sources if you like but it is not controversial at all. If you read C._D._Deshmukhs autobiography, he mentions his thread ceremony at age  6 or 7 as well.Massachusetts is beautiful (talk) 13:55, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey Massachusetts is beautiful, you have moved the statement -- "The CKP performed three Vedic karmas or duties which in sanskrit are called: Adhyayan- studying of the Vedas, yajna- ritual done in front of a sacred fire, often with mantras and dāna – alms or charity." to the 1st para (lead), which is WP:UNDUE. The word 'body' in my edit summary is incorrect. Anyway, your statement "I have gone through your edit histories, and you have problems with content that is sourced but not to your liking." will be treated as a personal attack. Please be careful in future, and please feel free to report against me! Ekdalian (talk) 14:04, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Ekdalian, that sentence "three vedic karmas..."  was already in the lead but not first paragraph. Hence I said I have not changed the lead. I placed the vedas related sentences together without modifying the lead. Vedic rituals are of two kinds  , one is satkarma(6 rituals) and one is trikarma(3 rituals) hence it is mentioned what those 3 rituals were. Iravati Karve has also clarified that the rituals of ckp and Brahmins are same but the ckp are not generally vegetarians (few might be- by personal choice- for example Gajanan Maharaj Gupte(Kulkarni) was a ckp but lived on raw leaves and fruits.). But I am digressing....  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Massachusetts is beautiful (talk • contribs) 14:38, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey , , , can you please have a look at the article (especially the lead section), which seemed like WP:UNDUE. I have just modified a bit. Thanks! Ekdalian (talk) 14:42, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: You moved the part about Vedas to the second pragraph of the lead. I am fine with it.  I dont think you made any major changes. The article has been stable and well sourced for years based on history. Is the lead in wikipedia the first paragraph or the first section? I think we are using different terminologies.Massachusetts is beautiful (talk) 14:52, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  Massachusetts is beautiful I am not able to verify that page of KS Singh, can you please find another WP:RS to cite the thread ceremony part? Blueicecube (talk) 17:50, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Blueicecube, added another source published by the Pune Muncipal corporation. I will try to find the one by C.D.Deshmukh also where he talks about his thread ceremony. About K.S.Singh source, it existed on the page for years as far as I can tell. I don't have access to it but the quote and page number was given.Massachusetts is beautiful (talk) 19:01, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Blueicecube, I have added a quote from C.D.Deshmukh's autiobiography. You can access the book for free. Not sure if I am allowed to post the link here but you can search for "course of my life" on archive.org. I can try to find more sources. But this is a simple religious custom- it is well known and simply the first part of a vedic ritual.  [personal know-how hence cannot add to the article: In Maharashtra, if one is a Marathi Brahmin or CKP, and has not done a thread ceremony in childhood (for any reason), one cannot get married ritually unless he performs it. For such people, Brahmins have something called a munja-sodmunja (sod means leave, munja means thread ceremony). So you have to perform the ceremony just days before the marriage and do another one by leaving the first one (could be one day prior to marriage). This marks your exit from student life and entry into the life of a married householder. This is personal knowledge so I cannot add it to the page without sources.] If you are doing research on the community, I will be glad to help you with some sources. If you know any Maharashtrian Brahmin personally, you can verify the statement about munja-sodmunja from him. There is temple of a religious personality Ram Maruti Maharaj(Deshpande) in Thane who died in the early 20th century and he all many devotees from all castes. His portraits always show him wearing a sacred thread. Personally, I don't believe in God-men as I am an agnostic. Sorry if I offend anyone. Thanks.
* Massachusetts is beautiful Wikipedia articles highly rely on WP:RS. Your sources are not WP:RS, also please see WP:HISTRS. Blueicecube (talk) 11:06, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

text: Blueicecube, these are reliable sources for a cultural event. Deshmukh is referenced by several publications. There is nothing very historically significant about a thread ceremony. Anyway, I found one more Chopra. Thanks Massachusetts is beautiful (talk) 13:47, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  Massachusetts is beautiful well-sourced articles are always better, thank you for providing those sources. Blueicecube (talk) 14:36, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  EkDalian's removal of sources 

message: One source says that the dispute was due to the non existence of Kshatriyas in the Kali Yuga. However, the O' Hanlon source that gives the resolution of that myth especially applicable to ckp has been removed here. See => https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chandraseniya_Kayastha_Prabhu&diff=prev&oldid=1199683489 .  182.48.197.29 (talk) 20:53, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  To  all editors: Fix incorrect content: O' Hanlon source needs to be added to remove POV  

message: The Kshatriyas in the Kali Yuga source (not just the title clearly says that the dispute was due to the Parshuram myth). However, Ekdalian has made a good faith mistake in the edit here https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chandraseniya_Kayastha_Prabhu&diff=prev&oldid=1199683489 Please check the quote -the source clearly says"The origin of these disputes lies in the wider dispute concerning whether there are any true Ksatriyas in the Kali age" Please do not misrepresent sources. Ekdalian in his summary says exactly the opposite!!! 182.48.197.29 (talk) 20:59, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey IP editor, why are you so impatient! Honestly speaking, if you were a named user, and behaved like this in such a contentious caste article, including the edit warring, you might have been blocked as per WP:GSCASTE. Editing is an ongoing process; I have added the part mentioned. Ekdalian (talk) 06:52, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  To all editors: Fix incorrect content: Kshatriyas in the Kali Yuga incorrect representation of sources

message: Hello , this article has been protected recently after a content dispute! I have edited the article, and would like to request you to review my recent edits, especially the section 'Varna dispute and Gramanya', if you can manage some time! Thanks. Ekdalian (talk) 07:57, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Review 

message: Please remove "varna dispute and gramanya" section from the page on Chandraseniya Kayastha Prabhu. No other page about any caste has any similar section added since it is POV pushing anyway. Senachandra (talk) 06:32, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the  template. It looks like there's been extensive discussion about this section above that didn't reach any obvious consensus. You may want to participate in the discussion if you have anything to add, following standard dispute resolution procedures. Liu1126 (talk) 13:29, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 31 March 2024 

message: Please add the name of Anand Dighe, prominent politician, in notable individuals. This can be used as the reliable source: https://www.firstpost.com/politics/balasaheb-thackeray-of-thane-who-is-anand-dighe-the-mentor-of-new-maharashtra-chief-minister-eknath-shinde-10858431.html Senachandra (talk) 15:01, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. thetechie@enwiki: ~/talk/ $ 03:14, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 May 2024