Talk:Pierre Boulez

message: I propose to remove what's left of the External Links section to reduce word count. There used to be a pretty extensive set of links (to recordings, videos etc) which I added in gradually but another editor removed a year or so ago. I can't say I miss it and I don't think what's left adds much. If a reader wants to dig deeper they can refer to the extensive list of sources - or just google. I'll wait a couple of days in case anyone wants to object. Dmass (talk) 11:37, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: External links sections don't actually affect the word count, but I'm all in favour of looking to trim them in any case. They have a way of breeding (often with minor and peripheral links put in by people with vested interests, chiefly interns in college libraries plugging their collections, however minor). I've just looked at the ELs chez Boulez, and in my opinion they'd none of 'em be missed. The BBC one doesn't work, the IRCAM one is suprisingly superficial, the German audio files are unlikely to be of much use in En.Wikipeda, AllMusic is of limited use so far as classical music is concerned, and I was surprised how little useful information there is on the Universal site. But I'm sure you're right to put this thread up for a few days in case anyone else has strongly contrary thoughts on the matter. Tim riley talk 19:53, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Since this conversation, a contributor who perhaps hadn't seen it, added back a new external links section. I still think it's not necessary for the reasons given above. Anyone object if I were to remove it? Dmass (talk) 09:34, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Good idea. Two commercial links, one link to an unreliable source, and if there's anything of substantial interest in the interviews it will be in the article already, or ought to be. Tim riley talk 11:52, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links 

message: , looking at the sourcing for "The author and blogger Norman Lebrecht, who knew Boulez, speculated that he was gay, citing the fact that for many years he shared his home in Baden-Baden with Hans Messmer, whom he sometimes referred to as his valet", I'm somewhat inclined to agree with the IP: While the guardian does mention Messmer, it doesn't talk about Lebrecht, and the edition of Lebrecht I checked out on archive.org (on p.185, and admittedly a different edition) says only "He never married. He had an Austrian companion, Hans Messmer, who occupied a separate apartment in the same block and was sometimes introduced as his valet." I think it's a bit of a stretch to go from that to saying that Lebrecht "speculated that he was gay", although that may be the implication. It also doesn't cite that Lebrecht "knew Boulez". Does the edition cited here say something different? Eddie891  Talk Work  17:05, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I've fixed the otiose tag - the Guardian article confirms the single thing it is cited for - but the main author of the article may have views on the citation to Lebrecht's book for the rest of the sentence. Tim riley talk 17:39, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I've moved the citation to the end of the sentence so it's clearer that Lebrecht's book is also citing the rest of the sentence. Would be curious to hear ' thoughts on the matter. They have done great work here-- the article does make very pleasant read on the whole. Eddie891  Talk Work  17:50, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks very much. I agree this does need looking at. Tim's right that the Guardian article was only cited for the name (which, incidentally, it gets wrong: his name's Messner, not Messmer). I'll have a look over the weekend. I think there's another, more recent source, that gives more nuanced information. Lebrecht is probably not the most reliable source (for anything much...) Dmass (talk) 18:00, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Good old Grauniad! I'm rather with you on Lebrecht. I recall a senior EMI producer comparing him to Senna, the soothsayer in Up Pompeii, with her cries of "Woe, woe and thrice woe", but he is a substantial figure nonetheless. Tim riley talk 18:13, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree - and he’s an excellent interviewer. His series on Radio 3 showed how to ask a good, short question and then shut up and listen. Not as simple as it sounds! On the other hand some of his articles on Slipped Disc are almost comically misleading. All deliberately done to get clicks, I’m sure. Dmass (talk) 18:19, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Failed verification