Talk:Genocides in history/Archive 4

message: No info on this???--85.98.142.37 21:36, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: See Archive 3: Algeria --PBS 12:03, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  French Genocide on Algeria? 

message: I removed the following statement: "The dropping of the Atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a genocide committed by the American to scare and gain respect of the other nations. Almost 500,000 innocent civilian lives were lost with that unethical bombing." by 67.85.42.120. I would argue whether it was genocide at all since it was more of a limited extermination, and if you did include it, then you would need to include carpet bombing Europe and the earlier firebombing of Japan. Even if it is, the above statement speculates as to the reasoning and grossly distorts the number dead--Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki suggests 214,000 as the total dead. Tewdrig 06:37, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not only the dropping of the atomic bomb on Hirshima and Nagasaki, but also the earlier firebombing of Japan and the carpet bombings in Europe were definitly genocides. All these attacks had only one goal: to kill civilians. In Japan nearly 1.000.000 people were killed and in Germany up to 600.000. It perfectly matches with the definition made by the "Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide". The problem is that the term "genocide" is also a political instrument and usually it can only be used by those who won the war. The Japanese Captain Kunito Hatakeyama was sentenced to death for having commanded the execution of 300 allied war prisioners, but Truman was celebrated like a heroe for having killed nearly one millon civilians.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by  84.78.179.178 (talk • contribs) 00:04, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dropping the Atomic Bomb on Japan 

message: Shouldn't this page include genocides from classical and medival history as well? I.e. the Melian genocide in Thucididies, etc.? I don't want to give the impression that genocide is at all a recent ocurrance. Also, though the writers to a good job of explaining non-Euoprean genocides after 1900, I feel as if this article is severly european-oriented before this time. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.174.190.59 (talk • contribs) 18:22, 8 March 2007  (UTC)
:See Archive 3: Ancient/medieval genocides. Any claim that an event was a gencide should be attributed to a reliable source. --PBS 12:09, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Historians and genocide scholars have considered whether the following events consitute genocide: Rome’s final war with Carthage, the Mongol Conquests, the Albigensian Crusades, the Great Witch-Hunt, Christians in Japan,
It does not say if they, Chalk & Jonassohn, found them to be genocides, only that they looked at them. The ICC looked at the alledged Bosnian genocide and found that it was not one, (Only that the Srebrenica massacre has been found to be a genocide) so looking at and finding that it was a genocide are two different things 
The text in the next paragraph does not say that Chalk & Jonassohn consider the Albigensian Crusade a genocide, only that it was a massacre. 
--PBS 17:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pre-1500 Genocides? Some more non-Eurocentric ones? 

message: I removed the section "The Commonwealth of Poland-Lithuania" as no attributable sources claiming it was a genocide have been given and it has been months since one was requested. --PBS 20:28, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Commonwealth of Poland-Lithuania 

message: Like most of the other sections it describes some very nasty stuff, some of which were crimes against humanity, but despite several weeks since a citation was asked for that the nastiness was a genocide, none have been given and it is not at all clear that the incidents would be considered a genocide under CPPCG if they were to happen today, so I have removed the section. --PBS 20:28, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Imperial Japan 

message: The Holocaust really happened. Why on earth does this article call it an alleged genocide? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.113.71.242 (talk • contribs) 09:46, 12 May 2007
I think that the first paragraph covers it:
:Because the universal acceptance of international laws, defining and forbidding genocide was achieved in 1948, with the promulgation of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (CPPCG), those criminals who were prosecuted after the war in international courts, for taking part in the Holocaust were found guilty of crimes against humanity and other more specific crimes like murder. Nevertheless the Holocaust is universally recognized to have been a genocide.
But if that solution is unacceptable then we will have to break the cronlogical ordering of the article and move the Holocust into International prosecution of genocide (ad hoc tribunals). --PBS 11:26, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Holocaust is not ''Alleged'' 

message: I removed alleged from this as it is disrespectful to the victims of these crimes, in the presence of either overwhelming evidence or deliberately destroyed or suppressed evidence. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 222.116.95.100 (talk) 02:57, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of Alledged 

message: The recently introduced sectio on China in the 1800s does not cite a reliable source that these events were a genocide. Please provide some or this section should be removed. --PBS 23:19, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The source that I cited this information from is reliable; Jacques Gernet’s A History of Chinese Civilization, one of the most comprehensive books on China’s history.( check the reviews ) And it said, word for word, “In Shensi and Kansu the number of victims is reckoned to have been several million; the figure in Kweichow is five million”. (Shensi and Kansu is where the Muslims rebelled and Kweichow is where the Miao people rebelled.)Editingman 05:14, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

text: All genocides involves mass killings, but not all mass killings are genocide. Do you have a source that these mass killings were genocide? --PBS 10:28, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  China in 1800s 

message: Hi,
With the definition given here to a "genocide" (which is a wide one), maybe these events could be added in the list : :fr:Massacre de la Saint-Barthélemy.
During that period, Protestants were chased and massacred in whole France (2000 deads at Paris and 5000 to 10000 in France) under the order of the King and/or roman catholic church. (this is a controverse).</br>
But I don't know if anybody ever talked about a genocide concerning these events...
Regards, Alithien 08:11, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If it is included in this article, then a reliable source claiming that it was a genocide needs to be provided. --PBS 14:05, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course. That was just for information. Alithien 13:49, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  St Barthelemy massacre 

message: User:Belligero has identified several sources that can be used for writing a piece on genocide in Brazil including:
:Indigenous Genocide in the Brazilian Amazon Genocide Studies Program  at Yale University's MacMillan Center for International and Area Studies.
But the two current paragraphs added by Belligero in the Brazil section, that could have been used as a kernal for developing the section are copyright violations:
:A former state governor and a former top policeman... 
This is a direct copy from http://www.survival-international.org/news/1258
:The massacre of the Tikuna people, also known as the Helmet Massacre, ...
Is a direct copy from http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/711/41/
--PBS 19:33, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brazil 

message: I have changed the wording from
::In spite of this judgement, some argue that the killing of Bosniaks during the 1992-1995 war in Bosnia and Herzegovina did constitute genocide and the term Bosnian genocide is used by some (University of California Riverside, Bosnian Genocide In the Historical Perspective, ), and human rights officials (Human Rights Watch, Milosevic to Face Bosnian Genocide Charges, 11 December 2001 ).
To that currently used in the Bosnian Genocide article that says
:... Before this ruling the term  Bosnian Genocide had been used by some academics (University of California Riverside, Bosnian Genocide In the Historical Perspective, ), and human rights officials (Human Rights Watch, Milosevic to Face Bosnian Genocide Charges, 11 December 2001 ).
The reason for this is that to date no one has presented an academic or human rights official sources that have used the term Bosnian genocide. The academic source was cited in an version of the Wikipedia Bosnian Genocide article that was published before the ICJ judgement. The souce now says "Important Note: This syllabus is from a past course, ... I suggest that you pay attention to the following schedule: February 1st. One-page statement of topic and thesis" (my emphasis). --PBS 09:16, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bosnian genocide 

message: There's only the presuming of genocide,but not even a primary source or account.When the current article is named as Genocide in history.--Ksyrie(Talkie talkie) 00:44, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request to remove the Tibet section 

message: The article states :
:The Khmer Rouge, or more formally, the Communist Party of Kampuchea, led by Pol Pot, Ta Mok and other leaders, organized the mass killing of ideologically suspect groups, ethnic minorities like the ethnic Vietnamese, Chinese (or Sino-Khmers), Chams and Thais, former civil servants, former government soldiers, Buddhist monks, secular intellectuals and professionals, and former city dwellers. Khmer Rouge cadres defeated in factional struggles were also liquidated in purges. The number of the victims is estimated at approximately 1.7 million Cambodians between 1975-1979, including deaths from slave labour.
I (of course) don't deny this was a genocide but would not the source stating it was one be indicated and a reference given for these events ? Alithien 08:17, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cambodia 

message: In the section China several mass killings are noted, but there does not seem to be a reliable source that claims they were genocides. If one can not be found this section should be deleted. --PBS 10:53, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  China 

message: In the section Tokugawa Japan there does not seem to be a reliable source that claims they were genocide. If one can not be found this section should be deleted. --PBS 11:04, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tokugawa Japan 

message: I am removing the new section "Iranian Yarsans (Ahl-i Haqq)" because no reliable source has been cited claiming that this was a genocide. I am also putting back the "Ottoman Empire (Turkey)" section deleted without an explanation. --PBS 11:40, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Iranian Yarsans (Ahl-i Haqq) 

message: This incident, in which the Japanese Army in 1937 was released on the Chinese city of Nanking and directed to annihilate 300,000 Chinese civilians over the period of a few weeks, is considered a genocide.  See Nanking Massacre article for sources.Jimhoward72 14:02, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The [[Rape of Nanking]] 

message: From the sentence "While no mainstream historian denies that death .. " to the end of that paragraph, the next the paragraph that starts "In an 1803 letter to the then Governor of Indian Territory ..." and the very long quote from the primary source do not belong on this page.  First because the text is OR as it is not a summary of any cited sources and secondly the quote is much too large for general reviews article like this (and without any secondary sources to link it to genocide its inclusion it is OR). 
I am deleting the text for the second time and under WP:PROVEIT, any part that is put back must be supported by citing reliable secondary sources. -- PBS (talk) 07:44, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Americas