Talk:Renaissance fair

message: Please discuss. - brenneman(t)(c) 02:49, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I have pared away some links which were merely to snapshot galleries.  I also removed the link to the Renaissance Faire Wiki, which I explored and found to be abysmally small and having no activity at all in the last 30 days (i.e. no edits or anything).  Also some of those links were to old, barely updated sites.  I have left, I hope, the most useful and general links. Artemis-Arethusa 23:49, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links 

message: Anyone know why my link was removed in this edit? edit history And again in this edit? edit history 2 And yet again what is going on and why is this being done? [68.83.125.151]
:Well for one it's non-encyclopedic, Wikipedia is not a link farm. See Wikipedia:External links for guidance on what types of external links are appropriate in an encyclopedia project. Perhaps you should try Unencyclopedia for joke/humour sites. -- Stbalbach 02:41, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: yeah I don't know why someone was deleting that. --Stbalbach 15:57, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Purity test external link

message: The title of the section "Commentaries on Current Faires, Internal Politics, and Commercialism" has been changed to just "Commericalism" by Aaron... but this just draws further attention to the fact that this section is problematic.
I created the earlier title to point out that this content was really "Commentary"...
As the opening paragraph is editorializing (i.e. non-encyclopedic), I am moving it here to the Discussion page until someone can edit it to remove bias/personal opinion (also needs some rewriting if it is to be used in main article). 
 
 Commercialism
 The California festival has largely changed since the seventies and eighties when it rivaled Oktoberfest 
 in Beer Sales and incorporated a vision of the emerging renaissance of the sixties into its colorful street 
 scene. Face painters and cookiejesters, Flamenco performers and Pinwheels all portrayed both a historical and 
 present renaissance. Many of the workers also attended shows of the Grateful Dead, and the crafts were 
 unrivaled in the state. Largely declining in the quality of crafts and intensity of theatrical experience
 the crew and cast have moved on to other ventures and the emphasis is no longer on interactive ensemble theatre.
 After famed longform improvisation performer and Faire employee Hal Taylor passed, the final link with a history 
 steeped in performers from Second City and the Groundlings was eroded. The festival still includes music, 
 dance and stage performances, scattered lightly through the open air facilities.
It may be that this just belongs here in discussion, and should not be edited and moved back.
Regards, Liberty Miller September 20, 2005 (22:22 UTC)
* This is a hot topic faced by any area of fandom. Newbies may accept the corporate presence, Budweiser beer and T-shirt stands and those events will be the ones they grow up with and always cherish, while oldtimers won't take to it. Same thing at Disney theme parks (or pretty much anywhere else). But, talk of differences through the years would be fitting.  "Fairs in the 60s / 70s / 80s" talking about the birth of R.E.C. and Mid America festivals and such.  Actually, a timeline of events would be a very cool thing (and a massive undertaking, considering how many events only lasted a year or so). --Allen Huffman 22:09, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Commercialism" section (Sept 2005) 

message: To avoid opinion, simple research could determine: Longest continually running fair, longest running (total time, if defunct), largest fair (property/size), highest attended fair, and maybe longest fair operational season (event open the most weekends). The jaded patron in me wants to add "most expensive event" like media always does when talking about Orlando theme parks... --Allen Huffman 22:18, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Notable fairs" 

message: The booths selling stuff with signs that say "Ye Olde <insert name>" always seemed very unrennaisance to me. Sure, it's a nostalgia-fest, but if it were a real Rennasiance Fair, everything would be "Ye New". I think it would be clever marketing, for example, for a stand selling french fries to market them as "Ye New" discovery from the new world...--RLent 19:06, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ye Olde vs. Ye New

message: Perhaps, as a guideline, we could use some psuedo standard for entertainer listings.  As much as I'd like to add my group to the list, the reality is that the listing contains alot of relatively new acts known only in a small regional area, and misses alot of the national touring acts (jousting troupes, Smee and Blogg, Puke and Snot, endless others) that have been performing nationwide for decades. Perhaps we can work on a better list, listing acts and when they started, as a frame of reference.  A group performing for 25 years is probably a better example of a seasoned renfest act than, say, my show which is only in its fourth season. (Of course, *personally* I love having "new" acts listed; gives the next generation some help!) Allen Huffman 16:16, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Entertainer Links 

message: Is anyone interested in tracing the idea of the Renaissance Fair as far back as they can?  I believe the idea really gelled with the Eglinton Tournament in 1839, but there must be other examples too.  Yes, it would be tricky, but it is an interesting sociological development. Artemis-Arethusa 00:17, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  More Historical Timeline Ideas 

message: Are they the same? If they are, which should the article use? If they are different, what is the difference? --Guinnog 07:10, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I did a copyedit; I really like this article, it captures well the experience of attending a fair as I did today. But a few references would really help it. --Guinnog 07:35, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

text: The difference appears to just be marketing, as events across America use both Fair and Faire, which is unfortunate from an advertising standpoint since the average Joe (ie, patrons) doesn't know to add an 'e' to a website domain. This causes events I do radio ads for to have to say "that's fair with an 'e' on the end." --Allen Huffman 21:33, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Understood, but I think you could have integrated it better into the article. "Somewhat-incorrect" is awkward, and is your own interpretation. The etymology just seems to have come out of nowhere. I'm going to think about this one and see if I can make it work better. Someone else care to chime in? — HelloAnnyong [ t · c ] 13:15, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

text: The English language lacked a "correct" spelling system for most of its life.  Fair was spelled in 100 different ways before dictionaries started pinning down what was deemed correct and incorrect - the Oxford English Dictionary cites the use of "fayre" and "faire" in 1489 and 1383, respectively.Terinthanas 05:45, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Cheers on your edit/cleanup. That's much better. — HelloAnnyong [ t · c ] 06:44, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair or Faire?

message: Restored the external links to the fairs. It is not clear this is spam. It seems the appropriate article to link to fairs. -- Stbalbach 16:11, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fair links 

message: I added a picture from the Renaissance Pleasure Faire in Agoura c. 1986, but it's not the highest quality I can imagine.  I'll see if I have any other 20-year-old photos that will survive digitizing, but if anyone has something more iconic, please replace this.  I have a program from the 1970s somewhere... PKM 19:05, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: History

message: :There are several common myths and stereotypes about Renaissance Faires...
Oh, come on. Is this section nessesary? You would have to be a small child or a moron to think that people are actually being "harmed" at these commercial fairs via "real combat". 70.20.136.170 00:48, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, and since nobody has touched it in the last three months, I have rewritten the section.  It was overwritten and overly alarming.  I think the new streamlined version cuts to the chase without losing anything vital.  Artemis-Arethusa 17:58, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Myths

message: I do not think that the image of a belly dancer inserted on May 22 adds to the article, so I removed it.  First, there is already a picture of a belly dancer in the article.  Second, the picture was not even of a belly dancer performing; it is just a woman in a costume walking down a street--there is no way of telling whether this is a performer or just a patron who showed up in costume.  
There are million of pictures taken at Ren Fests over the course of a year and almost all of them should not be added to this article.  I thought about inserting a picture of my husband in his new "Fool" costume (GA Ren Fest) but realized that there is already a picture of someone in a jester's costume so it would be too similar and not add to the article, only to my ego.  Ergo, I decided not to include it.  Cynrin 01:35, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed a cluttered and confusing photo from the top of the article because it didn't seem as distinctive and clearly an example of the Renaissance Faire as the one below it, a great pic of an actress playing Mary, Queen of Scots in full tudor costume.  That, I feel, is a better illustration to start the article with.  Some paring down of the photos is probably in order, and as I note it's three months since anybody else said so, I'll do a bit.  Artemis-Arethusa 18:05, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I know this discussion is several years old, so I don't necessarily expect a response, but I notice that there is still a picture of the Lost Boys marked as such. Is there some reason it needs to be removed or replaced? cmadler (talk) 12:51, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Images and Photos

message: If these fairs are individually Wiki-worthy, then they should have separate entries where their individual charms are discussed.  Likewise, comments about the delights of your fair belong on your own websites, not in Wikipedia.  I have edited the list to names of the fairs and brief descriptions. Artemis-Arethusa 17:49, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Notable Fairs Section Reads Like An Advertisement

message: I removed a picture of Robin Hood's Merry Men which was kind of so-so ... They were running off to the side of the picture, and it looked like the right half was missing.  We could use some clear, iconic images for this article.  There apparently was a nice jester pic for a while, but the reason it was so nice was that it was a copyrighted commercial image.  Oops.  We need copyright-free images, like people's own snapshots, if they're nice.  One of the craftspersons at work, like a glassblower or smith, would be good.  Also some of the mock-tudor architecture.  And maybe a little more of the fancy costumes.  What I'm thinking about is images which clearly convey what are seen as important parts of a Renaissance fair. Artemis-Arethusa 20:37, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Seconded. Good call removing that picture; it was sort of useless. Perhaps a better shot of that - from a different angle or something. Alas, we'd need more contributors to get some pictures up. — HelloAnnyong [ t · c ] 20:43, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Photo/Image Wish List

message: I've been trying to find my original reference for this, but no luck:  I am pretty sure that the Renaissance fair as we understand it was actually originated in the time of Elizabeth I (and, to a lesser extent, of her father, Henry VIII) as a sort of pro-good-old-days propaganda.  The legitimacy of the Tudor line was shaky despite Henry VII's usurpation and ruthless extermination of every twig of the Plantagenet tree, and religious wars had caused a lot of anxiety.  Numerous tournaments and fairs were organised under Elizabeth to jolly up patriotism and good feeling -- Think about this: In Elizabeth's time, knights in armor jousting were almost two hundred years out of date.  It was a deliberate nostalgia trip, even back then!
Regrettably, I can't find where I first ran across this, and lacking any good reference material, I must leave it out of the main article.  I'll keep my eyes open. 
Also, I'm pretty sure the Metropolitan Museum of Art was hosting jousts and Renaissance festivals in New York City in the 1950s, but I don't have any documentation on hand.  Something about the Cloisters and early music records, and maybe John Langstaff too. Artemis-Arethusa 00:16, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: I Would Love Some References for The History of the Development of the Ren Fair

message: This article is very US-centric, and the few mentions of similar European events present them in a fabourable light most do not deserve. It is true, there are some rare historically accurate reenactments in Europe, often held in historical places. The more typical equivalent of a ren fair in Germany (at least) is called a de:Mittelaltermarkt here. Despite its name, it has only few things in common with a market held in the middle ages. Perhaps the name »Fantasy Fair« would be more accurate. This sort of events is sometimes ridiculed by the historians and reenactors, but usually defended as a fun thing by participants and regular visitors. It is quite usual for members of the LARP scene to show up there, dressed in fantasy clothes like Gondor military garb (as seen in the movies). I think US »ren fairs« are so much similar to this that I dare to set a link. --62.143.121.135 17:58, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The phenomeneon of Live Roleplaying Events ("livers"), while not quite the same, should be touched on too. Hundreds or thousands of people getting together, in costumes, and -playing out spontaneous events. The setting and style will often be an celectic mix of middle age periods, sometimes mixed with Tolkien-style fantasy worlds.Strausszek (talk) 09:26, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some notes on the situation in Europe 

message: I think we need to come to a consensus on what determines a notable fair, as people keep adding to the list. I propose that a fair is notable if one of the following is true:
*Its attendance is over 100,000
*An article about it has been written and published in a notable media source
To informally check attendance, I use Renaissance Festival, though I sometimes question its reliability. What do you guys think? — HelloAnnyong [ t · c ] 05:06, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of notable fairs 

message: which is the bigest, or most popular renaisance fair in america?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.105.134.113 (talk) 05:17, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  biggest fair 

message: MOST of the photographs in the gallery located at my old gallery were made by my; I will happily upload them and release them to the public domain UPON REQUEST.  Photos depict festival scenery, employees, and demonstrations at the Georgia Renaissance Festival.  If you would like to use these images on the article, please leave me a message at my talk page.
I would go ahead and upload them for posting, but I'm not sure where they should go; I wish neither to overcrowd the article page nor to vainly replace another user's photos with my own.  Please remember to ask permission to use specific photos! Aylad (talk) 01:02, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Images available 

message: I wish to add a new section to this article but I cannot seem to find a news article that I know exists. I am hoping some old faire goers might have seen the article and maybe even kept it so they can tell me where I can look for a copy. I seriously doubt this would be an online text. What I remember is an article that described Phyllis Patterson as the "Mother of the Renaissance Faire" but also refered to her as the "Mother of the Fifth Form of Theater" which I think was also called "Theater-in-the-Live" (but I am not sure of that). The article was either in a newspaper or a magazine circa 2000-2005 approximately and probably was a local publication in southern California but might have been in a larger publication. Any help is appreciated. 66.102.205.233 (talk) 08:21, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Try a Google News Archive search.  You'd be surprised at what they've indexed. The whole article may not be online, or may be behind a paywall, but you'll be able to get bibliographic info to find it. cmadler (talk) 11:44, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I have done an exaustive search of the online sources with no luck. I am hoping someone who was a "Rennie" in that area/time might have a personal copy of the article that they could point me to so I could access it from the publisher's archives. Just need a title, date, and publication name. 66.102.204.109 (talk) 08:18, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Looking for a specific RenFaire related news article 

message: I'm thinking about starting an article about a relatively small Ren Faire.  It's been going for I believe four years, and attracts several hundred people on a typical weekend.  But I wanted to post a note here first in case anyone has a good reason why I shouldn't start it (I've had enough battles on wikis to last a lifetime, so want to prevent them).  By the way, I am not the owner or related to the owner, but have been there a few times and have shot several photos.  If no one has a good reason why I shouldn't start the article, I will.  Thanks! Alden Loveshade (talk) 00:49, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The real question is, can you meet WP:GNG. If you don't have enough reliable sources to build the article, then I wouldn't. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 01:52, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the advice.  I've found several online sources, and am currently in the process of finding a copy of an article about the fair that appeared in a large-circulation newspaper. Alden Loveshade (talk) 19:53, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Just to clarify, make sure that your online sources are indeed reliable. That means that they have to be secondary sources published by an actual publisher, be it news, book or magazine. Self-published sites such as blogs and personal sites don't count. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 21:04, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

text: *An article from a reputable large-circulation paper probably meets WP:RS, but remember that proving notability usually requires multiple reliable sources. One article will probably not be enough. cmadler (talk) 20:10, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for all the advice above.  I started the article on Middlefaire which right now has five sources including two from The Dallas Morning News which Wikipedia identifies as one of the 20th largest paid circulation newspapers in America. HelloAnnyong said it looked notable and the sources were cool, so thanks again! Alden Loveshade (talk) 18:53, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Small Renaissance Faire 

message: I removed the section "myths and lore", because it seemed to contain doubtful uncited information, possibly original research. If the information is actually correct, please re-add it, making appropriate citations to reliable sources. Thanks, Vectro (talk) 14:25, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section "Myths and Lore" 

message: This article is very US centric. It either needs to have its title changed or all non US based historical fair information removed and place in another article under a title such as 'Historical Fairs'. The term 'Renaissance fair' (or festival) is as far as I know only used in the US (and then rather strangely because the renaissance was a specific period in history and US fairs cover a much wider historical period). There is a wide range of historical fairs and festivals in Britain, Europe as well as in Australia and other countries. Many historical fairs in Europe emphasise the history with battle reenactments and living history demonstrations along with historically themed entertainment. Mixing US renaissance fairs in with those fairs that aim to be more about history than a history theme park confuses the focus of the article. Either a clear demarcation of the differences between all these fairs needs to be done within one article or a separate article about historical fairs is required. Please comment. If no-one gives feedback within a month I will just go ahead and make a decision Robynthehode (talk) 20:07, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Since the term "Renaissance fair" is a US-centric term, and the lede sentence states that they are "usually held in the United States", it makes sense that this WP article about renaissance fairs in the US should have the particular name of Renaissance fair. However, it would also make sense to include this region-specific article inside a broader category of fairs world-wide (perhaps a subcat of :category:Historical reenactment events?). This broader category could also have its own article (e.g., your suggested Historical fairs article). It would seem, though, that the non-regional article would contain only what's in the "A largely American phenomenon" section of this article (at least at first). — Loadmaster (talk) 20:34, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: No, this article's title shouldn't change. WP:COMMONNAME applies here, I think. The events that this article describes - Renaissance fairs and festivals - should match the title. There's certainly enough content here to warrant a US-specific version of this article. There might be space for a historical fair article that serves as an umbrella of this article and touches on the non-US ones, provided that article could be filled with enough non-US-specific content to justify its existence. Indeed, if the argument is that this article is blurring the lines between the two, then I think the other article could exist. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 23:54, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Change of Article Name or New Article 

message: Okay. There are a number of reasons why this text does not belong on this page. One, this is a page about all fairs, and singling out one fair doesn't make sense - especially when that fair has its own article, and the text is already there. Second, Wikipedia is not a soapbox and is not the place to grind an axe, and adding this text to a number of pages is wholly unacceptable behavior. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 00:14, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, there are a number of reasons why your changes do not belong. One, this issue relates to all fairs - if you read the relevant text you'll see that it applies to all fairs (e.g., if the Maryland thing went away but other fairs do it, the issue would still apply to those groups). It is clear that it's a general point and not just about this particular small part of the U.S. Second, it has been picked up by the media and is reported in a factual way - just because you don't like it, doesn't mean you can grind your own axe by deleting it. P.S. "a number of pages" = two. Don't make it seem bigger than it is. Freeranging intellect (talk) 00:18, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't appreciate you throwing attitude at me by mocking my comment; a little civility would be nice. First, the phrasing in "in some fairs" is a weasel word. If it truly was "some fairs", then you should add evidence that shows more than one fair. It's unencyclopedic to generalize something happening in one fair as multiple. Merely being reported elsewhere doesn't mean that it's worthy of inclusion. There are other rules, like weighting. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 00:22, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

text:  I simply used your own argument structure. - If that made my comment have "attitude", it's because that was built into your own style, which yes - I do think has attitude. But anyway, on this topic - that's good advice, thanks - I will add sources that mention other fairs now.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Freeranging intellect (talk • contribs) 00:29, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

text: It might be appropriate in Maryland Renaissance Festival, but this really doesn't belong in this article. Its inclusion is WP:UNDUE. Blackguard 00:34, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the section needs to be rewritten a bit to match the weight, but adding other fairs does at least balance it out a bit. Though really, per WP:CRITS, there shouldn't be an individual Controversies section; the text should be folded into other sections - History, for example. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 00:41, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: That seems reasonable - I could move it into 'Characteristics'. Perhaps starting with a sentence simply noting that some fairs include animal rides. Thoughts? Freeranging intellect (talk) 00:56, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: So done. The AZRF article was just an opinion piece and did not say anything about actual protests at the fair, so that doesn't strike me as significant enough for inclusion. The Joan Jett thing is only significant inasmuch as her celebrity status, so I've omitted that. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 14:02, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Controversy section 

message: This article states several times that this is an American thing, despite a discussion on this page from 2009 (!!!) providing context for Germany. When I lived in Germany for 10 years it was hard to swing a dead cat and not hit a Mittelaltermarkt or Ritterfest. This needs a serious rewrite to include our European brethren. CsikosLo (talk) 17:08, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  NOT uniquely American 

message: In the first paragraph defining Renaissance Fairs I noticed it excluding any mention of blacksmiths. I'll admit I haven't read the remaining article, but it seems as though they should be included because they offer not only products for sale, but also are handmaking those items all day in that heat and sharing their talent and knowledge in addition to selling products. PudgeandNugget (talk) 22:54, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blacksmiths