Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mesoamerica/Archives/Archive 3

message: I think the history of Mesoamerica has a bias toward Mexico's history, the chronology is not accurate neither, We will have to work on this, I propose to the members to do it again.Authenticmaya 21:30, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If chronology is inaccurate, we need to improve it. I suspect some of the Mexico "bias" is just that more work has been done on Mexican subjects so far; expansion of information on other parts of Mesoamerica is very welcome. Cheers, -- Infrogmation 21:53, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know if I see any Mexican bias in the Mesoamerica article.  However, the sub-section on "chronology" is really very poor.  I realize that this may be due to many tiny revisions over time, but the end result is almost un-readable and honestly not very accurate.  I do not have the time at this moment, but someone should take the data available and re-write the entire section in a fluid essay.  Even the timeline lacks such important sub-divisions as the "Terminal / Epiclassic" periods.  I don't mean to be overly critical, since this is all done by volunteer authors, but a much better treatment is due (and can be done using widely available textbooks and web sites). Chunchucmil 20:54, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed Chunchucmil that there is considerable improvement needed for the Mesoamerica and Mesoamerican chronology articles. A lot of the Mesoamerica article was translated as a time-saver from the equivalent article in the spanish language wikipedia, as was the timeline, and while Maunus, Authenticmaya and others have done some revisions since then it is still sub-optimal, as you note. Unfortunately there are many articles needing attention but with only a few regulars around here progress is only gradual, I'm afraid. Even so, agree that these repairs should have priority, perhaps once the Featured Article push for Mayan languages is out of the way we'll be able to collaborate on this one.--cjllw | TALK 03:16, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Mesoamerican History

message: * See .
* Cheers, --Ling.Nut 03:19, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey, thanks for that Ling.Nut- hadn't thought of a specific project-related award, that should do nicely.--cjllw | TALK 04:54, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  erm, BoNM 

message: After coming across this set of articles through the wikification project I realised that a bit of a sort out is required. I've put a plea for help on the article's talk page outlining my concerns in detail. Madmedea 22:58, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi there Madmedea. I've made a response to your comments at talk:Maya civilization.--cjllw | TALK 01:55, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Request for help with [[Maya civilisation]] and sub-articles

message: I've posed the idea of splitting the Mesoamerica page - please see Talk:Mesoamerica if you have any comments/ideas.  Thanks! -- Oaxaca dan 01:08, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Splitting the Meso page

message: I've been upgrading the article on mesoamerican languages from a mere list to a fullfledged article over the last couple of days. I would appreciate all assistance by project members in copyediting, adding content, providing references, criticizing and posing the right questions in order to make the page progress towards a first class status. Given the current frenzy of criticism towards the Mayan languages article which I frankly thought was perfectly fine I don't have high hopes for it reaching FA status (although I have tried to avoid the same mistakes as we've made over there), but I would like to get it as close as possible. Good knowledge of either Mesoamerican history, linguistics, english grammar and spelling and citation/reference rules would be useful for the further development of the article. ·Maunus· ·ƛ· 12:16, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow Maunus, that article is a monster! (in a good way). Really good job.  I'll try and help out with the history/geography parts --Oaxaca dan 13:35, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Help appreciated at [[Mesoamerican languages]]

message: thumb|110px|right|Las Limas Monument 1.Fellow travellers:
Because I've so loved the critiques we've received over at the Featured Article nomination of Mayan languages, I decided to nominate a photo of Las Limas Monument 1 for Featured Picture (review here).  My nomination is hopefully complete enough, so I won't repeat it here but I do love this photo both for its drama and for its encyclopedic value.
I have recently found Flickr to be a goldmine of photos, many of which, because they are already Creative Commons, etc., can be immediately uploaded to Wikipedia, no questions asked.  In two other cases, including the nomination above, I asked the photog for permission, which they graciously provided.  
Here are my recent Flickr uploads:
Image:Las Bocas Olmec baby-face figurine (Bookgrrrl).jpg|A compelling photo of a famous "baby-face" artifact from Las Bocas.
Image:Swinging figurines (Frida27Ponce).jpg|Used in the Remojadas article.
Image:Remojadas figurine and face (Frida27Ponce).jpg|Used in the Remojadas article.
Image:San Martin Pajapan Monument 1 retouched.jpg|Another classic (but not Classic) artifact, now in the Olmec heartland article.
 
Update (18 March) More beauties from Flickr:
Image:Chalcatzingo, looking north-northwest.jpg |Panoramic shot of Chalcatzingo.  1st photo in this article.
Image:La Venta Altar 5 (Ruben Charles).jpg|Altar 5 (throne really) at La Venta. 
Image:Altar 5 from La Venta, left side (Ruben Charles).jpg|Well-known end panel from Altar 5 at La Venta, showing two were-jaguar babies.
Image:La Venta Mosaic (Ruben Charles).jpg|One of the buried mosaics from La Venta.
 
These images really spark up the articles and are worth a thousand words.  I would be happy to look/ask if you're interested in a specific artifact/photo. Madman 18:56, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Featured Picture candidate 

message: I'm a new user to Wiki and tried to add a useful reference to the article on Copan, but it was removed without explanation. The reference (Informal Empire: Mexico and Central America in Victorian Culture(Minneapolis: University of Minnesota Press, 2005), contains new research about British attempts in the 1850s to cart away some of the ruins to the British Museum. The research was done from primary documents in British archives, and is authoritative. Wouldn't you want readers of Wiki to know about it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rdaguirre (talk • contribs) 16:44, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You should raise issues on the Talk pages for that article.  I don't know why your reference was removed, but I re-added it.  I think that is certainly a good "further reading" source.  Madman 02:24, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  new research on plot to remove Copan artifacts British Museum 

message: Hey all - I've recently created an article for the sorely-needed Valley of Oaxaca - if anyone who knows anything about the valley and wants to lend a hand, it would be super-cool.  For the time being, I'll be adding material in bits and pieces.  Cheers to all -- Oaxaca dan 04:03, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey thanks dan - we've been needing that one for a while, now. I'm temporarily a little restrained in available editing time, but once the situation improves (likely not for a couple of weeks, alas) will help out where I can.--cjllw | TALK 04:38, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Valley of Oaxaca]]

message: Timeline chapter timetables added to Maya ceramics article--John Zdralek 13:10, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks!  I moved the dicussion to the Talk:Maya ceramics page, and commented there. -- Oaxaca dan 15:17, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Maya ceramics]]

message: Hiya,
As some of you know from hanging out at <plug>Wikipedia WikiProject Endangered languages</plug>, I spend most of my time looking at things around the general region of the Formosan languages...
...but I happened across this, which looks like it may be up your alley. Sorry if it's a tiny bit dated:
Proto-Uto-Aztecan: A Community of Cultivators in Central Mexico?
Jane H. Hill
American Anthropologist
December 2001, Vol. 103, No. 4, pp. 913-934 
Concepts: cultivation, Community, history, speakers, protolanguage, spread, maize cultivation, chronology, northward.<P>
"Authorities on the origin and history of Uto-Aztecan have held that speakers of the protolanguage were foragers who lived in upland regions of Arizona, New Mexico, and the adjacent areas of the Mexican states of Sonora and Chihuahua about 5,000 years ago. New lexical evidence supports a different view, that speakers of the protolanguage were maize cultivators. The Proto-Uto-Aztecan speech community was probably located in Mesoamerica and spread northward into the present range because of demographic pressure associated with cultivation. The chronology for the spread and differentiation of the family should then correspond to the chronology for the northward spread of maize cultivation from Mesoamerica into the U.S. Southwest, between 4500 and 3000 B.P. [Uto-Aztecan, cultivation, Mesoamerican, historical linguistics, migration]"
Later --Ling.Nut 16:58, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Very interesting, Ling.  Thanks for the tip and keep the info coming.  Madman 13:21, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  knock knock: is this useful? 

message: Hi again,
Hope the thread I just posted immediately above is useful...
* (I'm deleting the request for help I orig. placed here... I think the issue is resolved... Thanks!!) --Ling.Nut 19:01, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ...plus a request for help... 

message: * Linguist List Vote: To Wiki or Not to Wiki
* Offers grad student to work on linguistic articles in WP if their fund-raising collects  $6000 in the next 48 hours 
* Must use special "Wikipedia offer" donation page:  http://linguistlist.org/donation/fund-drive2007/wikipedia/
* Calls Wikipedia:WikiProject Linguistics "...quite dormant and not really organized"; ; makes no mention of WP:ENLANG, WP:MESO or other WikiProjects actively involved in languages/linguistics articles.
* Ling.Nut 00:35, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmmm, most interesting, Ling.Nut. Maybe you or someone with a subscription to that list could point them in the right direction?--cjllw | TALK 01:04, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Quite silly IMO. Why not just ask the members to become editors instead ofaking them to pay for a "proffesional editor" to do it for them.·Maunus· ·ƛ· 08:10, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia offer on [[Linguist List]] 

message: Apologies if this isn’t the correct means or place for this. I’ve not contributed to wikipedia pages before.
Offer to help expand the page: I’ve just generated a fantasy Pochteca page for Thomas Harlan’s Sixth Sun sf series, and as a result have gathered a fair bit of historical material. If it would help, I’d be willing to expand the Wikipedia page with the genuine material. --Norsktrad 17:46, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No need to ask - go ahead and add to the article, just remember to cite your sources. happy editing.·Maunus· ·ƛ· 18:09, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The sources would be a number of books & Spanish/French Nahuatl translation sites based on the Florentine Codex. If what I put on the page isn't suitable it can always be rolled back. Thanks. --Norsktrad 17:41, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks Norsktrad. It would be better if you were to list the specific sources and editions you have used in a ==References== section on the article page, together with specific footnoted citations against specific bits of info- since various sources may differ on the details. If you are unsure how to do this, you can just start with providing a bulleted list of the sources in the article or on the talk pg, and we'd be happy to help tidy it up.--cjllw | TALK 01:48, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Pochteca

message: * If you have a moment, please look at:  Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject Ethnic groups#Scrap the infobox
* Thanks! Ling.Nut 16:03, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed TfD on Ethnic groups infobox 

message: I've started a new article on Aztec cuisine which might be of interest to the project.
Peter Isotalo 14:26, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks Peter- a useful addition in an area till now poorly covered, most impressive!--cjllw ʘ TALK 01:36, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aztec cuisine 

message: The date is set for Mayan languages to appear on the main page on May 21! Finally we are harvesting the fruits of our labour! Maunus (talk • contribs) 06:08, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey, that's great news! Would be good to have a few WP:MESO members & associates on standby that day to watch over the article and others linked conspicuously from it- as well as a sharp increase in vandalism (unfortunately), there'll no doubt be a range of mostly well-intentioned edits during and for several days after its appearance.--cjllw ʘ TALK 09:03, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Hey congrats on the main page article! Looks good! Ling.Nut 13:25, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Mayan languages to appear on main page on May 21

message: I rewrote the ixchel article. The present quality rating is 'start class'. It would be a great help if I knew what led to its present low rating and on which points it should be improved. retal77.162.130.139 13:42, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Retal. The WP:MESO project's article assessment ratings are perhaps more art than science in their implementation; there's an attempt to explain what the relative settings are supposed to mean at WP:MESO/RATE. Also, it sometimes just takes a little while before someone gets around to reassessing an article after it undergoes a rewrite or expansion. In the particular case of Ixchel, it's greatly improved from earlier versions, and I've now happily bumped up the quality rating from start (ie, more than a stub but generally lacking tidy prose, references, coverage of key aspects, containing questionable material, or some combination of these)  to B (does an OK job of covering the main aspects, has at least some references, mostly free of error and inconsistency, etc). I guess the way it's been used around here, 'B-class' encompasses a reasonably wide range, & maybe we should tighten it up a little - but that's probably for another day...--cjllw ʘ TALK 15:24, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  quality scale ratings: motivation