Talk:Fraternity (disambiguation)

message: Currently this article is an disjointed combination of an attempt at an article, with a list of disambiguation entries slapped on at the end.  Would anyone object if I stripped this down into a true disambiguation page that, per WP:MOSDAB, contained nothing but simple list to several different types of fraternities and fraternal societies?  I suppose if there's anything useful in the current body of the article, someone can move it to new article on the history of fraternal organizations, or something.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 14:17, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: My initial thought is that we might have an article (or maybe set index) called Fraternity which would concern itself with the "brotherhood organisations" aspect - there could be quite a lot to say apart from just listing them (history of such organisations, how they developed, links between them, differences by nationality, religion etc). This article could then be the primary meaning for Fraternity (disambiguation) which would also include the other entries (like the band etc) not covered by the primary meaning. Abtract (talk) 09:41, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That's not a bad idea either, but I had to revert you because you were performing what amounts to a cut-and-paste page move.  The history of this page goes back 5 years, so it's not a good idea to suddenly cut out the product of those 5 years of edits and paste them in a new location, where no one can see the article history.  The disambiguation info should be on this page (even if we have to rename this page).--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 01:21, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

text: If you want to cut and paste something, cut the prose part and move it to some article.  The disambiguation and its history should remain on this page, where it began.  Then have an admin move this page to Fraternity (disambiguation), if you'd like to change the name.  It's more trouble, but it preserves the article history.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 01:28, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

text: I think you're misunderstanding.  I want the disambig page to conform to WP:MOSDAB as well--just as you do; But you need to have an admin move the page instead of cutting and pasting text.  That way, you can preserve the edit history (to not do so would violate WP:GFDL (particularly, section 4).  I'm sorry if I'm not explaining this clearly enough.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 01:39, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

text: I agree - 129.133.124.199's goal is great.   The Fat Man Who Never Came Back's method is the way to get there. Although don't we also need the history to reside at whichever article ends up containing the non-disambig text too? -- SiobhanHansa 01:48, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: After a little research suggest the procedure we should actually follow is the one at WP:Split. -- SiobhanHansa 01:55, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Bingo, I think that's the way to go... and we don't have to mess with technical nightmare of the dreaded HISTORY SPLIT.  Also bear in mind that the prose portion is relatively new. So even if we cut and pasted that, we'd be losing far fewer edits than if we cut the much older disambig portion. --The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 01:58, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

text: This article is the main one, and you should split the newer stuff (the prose) off from this article, not the other way around.  Once you've moved the items correctly, then you can rename the articles.  You've done it backwards.  --The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 04:26, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Try this..... let's have an admin delete the page that currently resides at Fraternity (disambiguation) to make room for a proper page move.  The move, this page to Fraternity (disambiguation).  Once it's moved (ie, renamed), split the prose stuff out and paste it back to Fraternity along with an explanatory edit summary per WP:Split. The difference between that and what you did is that the disambiguation information will have the long and detailed edit history associated it--other than that, the outcome is the same.  129, are you okay if tag the Frat (dab) page for deletion to make room for this type of move?--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 04:33, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, with an admin's help, I moved the disambiguation stuff here while retaining the article history.  Let me know if it looks okay to you.  The prose content has been split off and lives at Fraternity.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 05:15, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: This page needs to be pared down

message: The list of organizations for the Philippines‎ seems to be Philippine versions of the American system. However, these are also being listed under general fraternities by their proponents, and it begs the question whether these are really student organizations or general organizations. If anyone knows..... P22575R15 (talk) 14:13, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Philippines‎ 

message: I have enlarged the  fraternity article by transferring many of the articles that do not belong on this dab page (which must only contain links to articles which could be confused with "Fraternity" see mos:dab) I have also removed all those items not needing disambiguation. When considering adding an article to this dab page don't forget it must be one likely to be the target of a reader typing in "fratenity" of something very similar ... saimply being an organisation like, say, the masons is not enough to justify inclusion because no-one would type in Fraternity when looking for the masons. I hope this all helps and pls don't be offended if I took out your work. If in doubt have a good read of mos:dab. :) Abtract (talk) 00:01, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I see all my work has been reverted with more or less the only reason being that fraternities are not all male organisations .. really? Abtract (talk) 16:23, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Correcting balance between this page and [[Fraternity]] article