Talk:William Gaddis

message: Franzen should not be included as an "admirer" of Gaddis'. He has twice written strong criticism of what he sees as 'overly intellectual' narration, and famously attacked Gaddis in particular in two essays, most notably in "Harper's". In fact, his criticism has prompted responses from David Foster Wallace and William Gass, both of whom defended Gaddis.
The Harper's essay is a criticism of Gaddis' later works, but Franzen still states his admiration for The Recognitions in the essay. However, it would be OK to remove Franzen from the list. Torerye 10:48, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that Franzen ought to be pulled from the list; even if he expresses some admiration, he expresses a lot of criticism as well, and it doesn't seem quite right to have his name in there without serious qualification.  Actually, his essays about Gaddis caused enough of a stir that it may be worth giving them a small subsection here... --Khazar (talk) 16:58, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

text: I disagree. An admirer kicking and screaming is still an admirer. Who goes to the trouble of writing criticism of something he truly disdains (yes, of course, "Critics with a capital C" do, but if that is what Franzen is then there is a better reason for pulling him)?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.215.115.31 (talk) 16:09, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

text: I don't think Franzen belongs on here at all. He has written extensively (as noted) concerning his disdain for "Mr. Difficult" as he called Gaddis. He is not an admirer. He has written that he once admired Gaddis, but no longer. Probably most troubling about including Franzen -- he is clearly NOT influenced by Gaddis. Franzen writes strict realism - Gaddis couldn't be further from it. Saying Franzen was influenced by Gaddis is like saying Vladmir Nabokov was influenced by Jane Austen because he once mentioned her during a lecture.  Eesome (talk) 20:43, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Biography

message: Why is this in here at all? 
Jonathan Franzen, who in an essay in The New Yorker called Gaddis "an old literary hero of mine", dubbed him 'Mr. Difficult', stating that "by a comfortable margin, the most difficult book I ever voluntarily read in its entirety was Gaddis' nine-hundred-and-fifty-six-page first novel, The Recognitions."[9] Franzen continued: "In the four decades following the publication of The Recognitions, Gaddis's work grew angrier and angrier. It's a signature paradox of literary postmodernism: the writer whose least angry work was written first."
For one, it omits Franzen's entire thesis of the essay. Secondly, it seems to have nothing to do with influence - calling someone a literary hero does not mean you were influenced by them, nor does saying it was the most difficult book. Finally, the entire final sentence, i.e. "Franzen continued..." makes a value judgment that has nothing to do with an article about Gaddis. It is Franzen's opinion of Gaddis' work, which Franzen has admitted he could not read. How does this provide readers with information about Gaddis in an objective manner? Eesome (talk) 21:00, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Legacy and Influence 

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