Talk:Brazil/Archive 3

message: I have taken the liberty of archiving the previous talk page because it got too large and confusing. Also, there haven’t been active discussions for over three weeks.
Anyone wishing to resume old debates feel free to continue here.
Sparks1979 23:55, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Talk Page Archive

message: I feel we should reorganize the History section according to the classic division Brazilian History books use. Therefore, the section should have only three subsections: the Colonial phase, the Empire of Brazil period, and the Republican era. 
I believe the current division seems a bit arbitrary. It looks clustered in an excessive number of subsections.
Is anyone against this change? hey wasts up peoples
Sparks1979 00:05, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: History section

message: "According to Fundação Getulio Vargas, in June 2006 the rate of poverty based into lacework was of 18.57% of the population..."  What does "based into lacework" mean?  It seems to me that this is a typo or mistranslation.  -Larry Siegel
: I've changed it into 'labour income', which is what the report says. Cheers for noticing that! English rosy 00:42, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Instance of unintelligible wording 

message: eu acho que seria legal colocar fotos da serra gaúcha nevada pois poucas pessoas imaginam que no brasil neva. obrigada
por favor coloquem—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 201.14.107.250 (talk) 
:I am not an ace in Portugese but I think you suggested adding a picture of Serra Nevada because some people imagine that there is no snow in Brazil, right? -凶 02:06, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I will try to translate: I think it will be nice to put some photos from the snowy "serra gaúcha" (mountain range from the southern and coolest brazilian state) because few people imagine that do snow in Brazil. Thanks please put it (has a sidenote, this "thanks" denote a feminine writer). 200.255.9.38 18:00, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Snow in Brazil

message: I realise that "Federative Republic of Brazil" is the most literal translation of the country's Portuguese name, but wouldn't "Federal Republic of Brazil" make more sense in the context? Soviet Canuckistan 04:23, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a fair point. However, "Federal" also exists in portuguese, and "federative" also exists in English. If the meaning doesn't differ between the two, then I guess the literal translation is more appropriate. Now, IANAL (I am not a linguist) and my opinion comes from the virtue of speaking both languages at relatively the same level.--Dali-Llama 02:07, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is a difference in English (I'm a native English speaker, no Portuguese); the form 'Federal' is preferred in this context for an article in the English version of Wikipedia. The Federal Republic article provides a number of prominent English examples. -- Rydra Wong 02:45, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm actually a native speaker of both, and I'm kinda torn on this issue. It would be perfectly reasonable for someone in Portuguese to say "República Federal do Brasil" rather than "República Federativa do Brasil", but that was not the choice made in Portuguese. The same could be said in English, where Federative Republic of Brazil and Federal Republic of Brazil have the same meaning. Even the Federal Republic article you refer to states:"A close variant is the term federative republic, which appears in the full official title of Brazil.". The CIA translation (found here) uses Federative. I think if Federative is the official translation of a US government agency, then it is reasonable to assume that it's also the correct English translation.--Dali-Llama 03:19, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

text: All good points. I don't suppose the Brazilian government has an official translation? Soviet Canuckistan 04:30, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I just checked. The government uses "Federative." I'm satisfied with that. Soviet Canuckistan 04:34, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Excellent points and I don't want to run afoul of those guys at the CIA;
"Federative" it is. -- Rydra Wong 04:54, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Federative" vs. "Federal" 

message: I'm curious how Brazil "appears to be a religious nation to outsiders" when the stereotype of Brazilian clothing is one of minimalism and lack of modesty, seemingly in conflict with Catholic values and teachings.  Further Rio and several other Brazilian cities are known for their parties and clubs.  Moreover, Brazil (I believe) has started offering birth control in schools, again seemingly in conflict with the view that Brazil is a devout nation?  Is anyone else in agreement?
To be religious doesn´t mean "to be Islamic".
:If we all were as you say, they must had choose the Sambódromo as Wold Wonder, not that giant Christ statue. Wildie 11:59, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Religion of Brazil

message: At least this article makes this plausible. Is his picture really that necessary? I think that Brazilian progress in space technology would be better illustrated with that picture of Alcantara base, which was a part of this article a few months ago. Greetings 201.58.215.254 14:34, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't think he was a Brazilian hero, but you're wrong when you say that "he didn't do any significant research whatsoever", Giorgioz. From 8 experiments, almost everyone knows only about the germination of beans (which, along with a chromatography-related experiment, had the purpose of extimulate the scientific spirit in students, so I wouldn't call it useless). Enzyme kinetics, DNA damage and repair, nanotechlogy where some of the others experiments. Even the other seed-germination experiment was relevant, if we want someday try to stay years in space. Wildie 11:56, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree with Giorgioz. Though he did relevant research, all of it could be done on Earth. And, as Giorgioz also stated, he sort of "betrayed" the country, using his space experience for his own benefit. I say we should replace his picture. 201.58.217.125 15:23, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Marcos Pontes the Brazilian hero 

message: Since user João Felipe C.S started to manipulate the Brazil article, it lost all its credibility. The pictures posted by him do not represent Brazil in anything.
I already argued here that he is trying to sell a false idea that Brazil is a copy of Northern Europe, full of blond girls walking in high-tech cities with the best education system in the world, no violence or poverty.
Well, that is not what Brazil looks like. I think not even Sweden or Norway looks like that.
The pictures of this article are so bad that include many undesirable ones and it is even pathetic to see some of them there:
*There is a picture of Brazilian airplanes
Fact: Brazil is now under a aerial crisis. Some weeks ago, an airplane crashed a building in Congonhas's airport, killing 200 people. Brazilian airports are in chaos, with thousand of behing and cancelled flights. It is pathetic to post a picture of airplanes in the Brazil article.
*There are two pictures of president Lula.
Fact: Many Brazilians do not have a good image of Lula, because of the many cases of corruption and scandals in his government. There's no need of two pictures of Lula in the Brazil article, since many Brazilians deslike him. João Felipe C.S seems to love him, that is why he posts so many pictures of the president.
*There is a picture of the Brazilian Crongress.
Fact: Brazil is under a crisis, because of the many curruption cases in the last months. The Congress is under continuous attacks from the media and the Brazilian population. It is a respect lack with the Brazilian population posting the Congress picture there.
*There is a picture of Ministers Guido Mantega and Ellen Gracie.
Fact: Politicians in Brazil are with a bad reputation now, because of all the corruption scandals. There is no need to post pictures of them in the article.
*There are pictures of German and even Ukrainian influence in Brazil.
Fact: Ukrainians are not even 0.3% of Brazil's population. There are no pictures to represent the Amerindians, Africans and Portuguese people in this article, who may represent most of Brazil's racial origin. João Felipe C.S again tries to sell the idea that Brazilians are all descendants of blond immigrants from Europe. 
*There is only one poor picture of São Paulo and another worse of Rio de Janeiro.
Fact: Both cities are the largest ones of Brazil and are known all around the world. There needs to have more pictures of both cities.
*There is a picture of the Federal University of Curitiba.
Fact: This University is not even listed between the best ones of Brazil. João Felipe C.S lives in Curitiba and probably studies at that university and is tryting to make a marketing of it in this article.
*There is a dark picture of a Brazilian favela
Fact: Million of Brazilian live in the favelas. João Felipe C.S erased a good picture of a favela and then posted a dark one to nobody be able to see it. João Felipe C.S tries to sell the idea that everybody in Brazil in rich.
CONCLUSION:
I ask administrators if João Felipe C.S can manipulate an article. Everytime another user tries to change something in this article, he revertes the user's contribuitions with no justification. All the pictures in this article are non-sense, some are even pathetic. Brazil does not look like that, everybody who has been to Brazil knows that.
Why not replace all these non-sense pictures with others who are really representatives of Brazil?
Where are the pictures of Rio de Janeiro's carnival, beaches, favelas, mixed-race people, etc? They are the ones who make part of the real Brazil.
Please, you people must do something. Opinoso 22:56, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Alternatively, you can "do something" yourself... find some pictures that you think are more representative of Brazil and add them. Blueboar 17:44, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is not a newspaper. It's an encyclopaedia. Politicians reputation at the moment is no reason for erasing the Congress picture. 
Lula IS still very popular though I don't really see why.
Aircrafts "made-in-Brazil" are between the best in the world and they do represent a good part of our exports.
Federal University of Paraná (not Curitiba) definitely ain't one of the best, can't help but agreeing.
And I do think it's you who has a wrong idea of Brazil. I live in Santa Catarina, and German/Ukranian/Italian/Azorean names are an astounding majority. I can't even pronounce most of them! I come from an Italian background and I can't understand the Southern Florianópolis accent, which lies no more than 150 miles from my home. 
And of course there are millions of favela-dwellers, but they're not the whole country. Breaking the stereoptype might be a positive thing. Janiovj 01:56, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

text: Santa Catarina was just an example. SC, RS, PR and SP (and parts of other states) are doubtlessly states with an overall development quite above the brazilian average. They concentrate industrial production and R&D and its population should be cited. I don't know what happened here before, but I do see you're being unreasonable. Janiovj 02:16, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

text: Couldn't agree more. That's encyclopaedist spirit! Janiovj 04:10, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Agreed. This article is not owned by João Felipe C.S. with his biased writing. 201.58.217.125 15:26, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Did you really read the entire thread? Are you sure about that?--Dali-Llama 17:11, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

text: You didn't read what I wrote. I didn't address Felipe's philosophy or ideology. I talked about specific edits, and what I feel is the most appropriate outcome. It's not about whose side I'm on. It's about the specific points you're bringing up. I disagreed with most of them, with the exception of the favela picture (which I reverted myself). The fact that you did not reply to my points, but chose to paint this some "conspiracy" does not help your case. Administrators are not here to judge content disputes--they're here to enforce policy and regulations. If you feel you need additional input, you can ask for a request for comment or take your case through the dispute resolution mechanism.--Dali-Llama 19:02, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Non-representative pictures of Brazil-- I ask for administrators' help

message: I will not say nothing, only look at the old discussions:
*April and May, 2007
*June and July, 2007
Felipe C.S ( talk ) 03:24, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Couldn't agree more. That's encyclopaedist spirit! Janiovj 04:10, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Agreed. This article is not owned by João Felipe C.S. with his biased writing. 201.58.217.125 15:26, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Did you really read the entire thread? Are you sure about that?--Dali-Llama 17:11, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

text: You didn't read what I wrote. I didn't address Felipe's philosophy or ideology. I talked about specific edits, and what I feel is the most appropriate outcome. It's not about whose side I'm on. It's about the specific points you're bringing up. I disagreed with most of them, with the exception of the favela picture (which I reverted myself). The fact that you did not reply to my points, but chose to paint this some "conspiracy" does not help your case. Administrators are not here to judge content disputes--they're here to enforce policy and regulations. If you feel you need additional input, you can ask for a request for comment or take your case through the dispute resolution mechanism.--Dali-Llama 19:02, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Again?