Talk:List of mammals of Syria

message: Massetti (2009) wrote that in Syria : ".. tiger became extinct in historical times ... archaeological evidence for the occurrence of tigers in the Amuq valley ... within Turkish Hatay." He does not provide any details about this alleged archaeological find. There is NO substantiated evidence that the tiger was ever resident in Syria. In the IUCN Red List account for tiger, Syria is therefore NOT listed among the countries where it was extirpated. -- BhagyaMani (talk) 06:55, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tiger in Syria ? 

message: The Asian elephant was added to the lists of extirpated species of these countries using an article by Çakırlar and Salima (2016) as source. These authors wrote : . Do you think it is justified to list the Asian elephant as extirpated in these countries?  please comment. – BhagyaMani (talk) 07:28, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I am fairly certain that the term "extirpated" could only refer to the wild and not introduced species. Shyamal (talk) 08:31, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it's ok to indicate that an introduced species was actively removed by human intervention (ie extirpated) just as many established invasive non-native species are when they are cleared fron any given area or region. What is not acceptable is for a handful of wikipedians to unilaterally decide that 'extirpated' is a better term to use than the more passive, neutral and widely-used and less loaded term: 'locally extinct'. Obviously, the status as a long-introduced (Established) species must also be clarified in any such article. Nick Moyes (talk) 09:22, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

text: I'd also say that if an introduced species has become established (reproducing population) and later disappears again, one might talk about local extinction/extirpation. Obviously something of a duration gradient - introducing rats on an island and removing them 15 years later: we wouldn't call that "local extinction". Losing all dingoes from Fraser Island after 5000 years: definitely local extinction. The elephant issue sounds like several hundred years of populations in the wild, which would qualify in my book. - No comment on the extinction/extipration distinction. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 15:28, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Whether introduced or not, this definitely counts as local extinction. Ddum5347 (talk) 18:17, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Asian elephant extirpated in Syria, Turkey, Iraq, Iran ? 

message: , you need to follow the sources. As noted, the range of the grey whale as given in the supplied reference does not include Syria. And the reference for the hippopotamus talks a lot about populations that may have been around in the Bronze Age, but also states multiple times that there is no evidence for later occurrence, e.g. "After the Iron  Age  no  postcranial hippopotamus finds are  reported  from  Israel, probably  because the  species  became extinct in the  region" and various other passages. The cut-off for including taxa in these articles is generally 1500 AD (otherwise we'd have a hundred Permian fish fossils in there). So please, read sources first, THEN revert. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 13:22, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, Elmidae! As you pointed out, this same source Horwitz et al. (1990) also refers to hippopotamus not being reported from Israel and Jordan after the Iron Age. Neither countries are listed as former range countries of the grey whale in the iucn Red List. But Animalworlds314 nevertheless reverted my removal of both hippo and grey whale in List_of_mammals_of_Israel#Extinct and hippo in List_of_mammals_of_Jordan#Extinct. Please consider to revert. -- BhagyaMani (talk) 14:34, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

text: No, no, no, no , you can't do it, why would you say that, i would not like that if you just consider him to revert, and  i promise to follow sources as much as i can. I'm sorry all of this but i will cooperate. -- Animalworlds314 -- (talk) 19:48, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Removed the hippos from both of those lists. The above specific and detailed negative evidence indicates that local extinction happened way back in this regions. Elmidae (talk · contribs) 16:23, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

text: Oh, and from THIS list again, as well. The same applies - if one source says "previously present but extinct" and another clarifies that extinction happened something like 3000 years ago, then a) these sources do not contradict but complement each other, and b) what they say is that extinction happened too early for consideration here. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 16:27, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks again, Elmidae! The grey whale made it into umpteen Lists of mammals of countries bordering the Baltikum and Mediterranean Seas, in most withOUT a ref. I'm in the process of removing these entries. -- BhagyaMani (talk) 16:31, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Fine, you two  and  won and i have lost, i hope you're happy that one of you took out the hippo out of every single list that i included. I may say thank you, not in an appreciation manner or way. It may have been a good thing to you two, though not to me. -- Animalworlds314 (talk) 19:48, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: We are not playing games of win and lose here. — BhagyaMani (talk) 20:04, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Well okay, but you get the fact that i said that you  and  have erased the hippo on each article that i have included in the past, which in fact makes me look at it as an extremely unholy thing you two have done. I hate to say this and you may not like it, but one: you'll regret for what you two have done, which was taking out the hippo, two: you and Elmidae will be very hyper duper sorry for this one, and three: this has forced me to hate you BhagyaMani and Elmidae and not ever communicate with any of you unless its an important thing. -- Animalworlds314 (talk) 20:24, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't care about your emotions, but about your erroneous additions to pages on my watchlist. -- BhagyaMani (talk) 20:33, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hippo, grey whale