Talk:Joseph A. Cafasso

message: To add material to this article, please use good quality references, otherwise, material that is unsourced or poorly sourced, or that constitutes original research, will be deleted. See biographies of living people.  ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 04:08, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Working on it. The article at is read before I started my edits was a whitewash of the controversy surrounding this guy. I'm well aware of NPOV, but facts are facts, which is why I elaborated more on his discredited record. As for other allegiations, namely the $8,000 judgement against him, I can't find any verifiable source at the moment. In addition, many of the links were either incorrect or not valid.  Alcarillo 19:04, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: I removed the reference to this documentary which was highly critical of Fox News because Cafasso's presence in it is really small. This is his contribution verabim from transcript. 00:34:42 STILL BUSH TALKING INTO MIC
INTERVIEW JOSEPH CAFASSO (OVER FOOTAGE):
The Christian fundamentalist movement believes in “we’re
right, [00:34:48 JOSEPH CAFASSO 100% LOWER THIRD: Joseph
Cafasso, Former FOX News, Military & Counterterrorism
Editor]
you’re wrong, no matter what.” And I saw a lot of that at
Fox, “we’re right, you’re wrong, no matter what.”
Sounds like he was trying to counter the impact of him leaving the network after being discredited. Regardless, I don't believe it contributes substantially to the article. Alcarillo 03:35, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, there may be some useable stuff there. I'll look into it. Alcarillo 22:52, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

text: I just noticed that. Good catch. And the person who removed it last month provided no justification except that it was "small beer." Uh... whatev. More to the point, the "Outfoxed" appearance is also notable in that Cafasso seems to have succeeded in deceiving the doco's producers as well. Otherwise, why even bother interviewing a fraud? Alcarillo 20:02, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Interview in "Outfoxed"

message: User:Jossi has taken umbrage with some of the content I added regarding how negatively the blogosphere views Cafasso, considering it possibly defamatory. However, the article as it stood accused him of nothing, yet it apparenly warranted a WP:BLP warning in Jossi's mind. Making a point of it here first would have been a more reasonable response. I think my Wikipedian record speaks for itself as one who does not pursue an agenda here, and hopefully this can be resolved without restorting to a fistful of admin warnings. Sheesh. Alcarillo 22:55, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That was my second warning. See my comment at top of this page in which I advised you about the need to be cautious given that this is an article about a living person and it should comply with the policy of WP:BLP. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 23:58, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So, I've providced links to aforementioned pro-Jonathan Idema sites that are routinely critical of Cafasso in support the paragraph as it now reads. Also, I refrained from linking to individual blog posts in which specific allegations are leveled at him. A search for his name on any of these sites will pretty much show their disdain for him and their support for Idema. I'll try to find as many as I can, but believe me, there are quite a few. Whether they're all from the same author is another matter.  Alcarillo 00:42, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ... but that is exactly the problem, Acarillo. These sources are blogs and such blogs and personal sites cannot be used in articles about LPs. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 02:32, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

text: The only way we can add such material is if there are reputable, published sources that describe that disdain. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 02:34, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: So you're saying that the evidence of blog criticism of Cafasso isn't reputable because it's actually on the blogs themselves? That makes absolutely no sense. How else would any "reputable, published" source describe that disdain unless it actually referred to the content of those blogs? The blogs are the evidence to a simple statement that he has detractors, not that what's being said is true or not. Alcarillo 02:54, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I would invite you to read WP:ATT and WP:ATT/FAQ. As editors we cannot take sources that are considered unreliable (such as blogs, personal pages, anonymous websites, and the like) and make a deductions about what these blogs say. On the other hand, if a peer reviewed article, book, or other reputable publication such a mainstream newspaper publishes a story in which they say that "there are blogs such and such that are highly critical of Mr. X", then, and only then, we can refer to that source when describing these blog's criticism of Mr. X. You may want to explore the difference between primary sources and secondary sources as presented in WP:ATT/FAQ, for further clarification. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 03:27, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I read it. Shoulda known: 2+2=5. Alcarillo 18:52, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

text: You say "I disagree with Jossi's stance on blogs". Well, that is not my stance, rather, well established Wikipedia policy. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 15:29, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But then, there's also this rule: WP:IAR, which should come up more often in discussions like this. Pleasantville 19:07, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We can IAR, but we cannot bypass policy. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 20:40, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Images of Cafasso from "Outfoxed" footage are likely copyrighted anyway and cannot be reproduced here. Although, I think the fact that he was used by the documentary to issue a rebutall of sorts might warrant mention. I'll have to think how to present that info. Alcarillo 16:19, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If anything, his appearance reflects poorly on the documentarians behind "Outfoxed" as they seem to have failed to check his background as well. Alcarillo 16:46, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Yes, I've been accused by one of the pro-Idema bloggers to be Cafasso. An immesely silly assertion. However, should anyone here question whether or not this is true, my wikipedia edit history speaks for itself. Alcarillo 23:46, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cafasso on the web 

message: In the section "Political activities", a mention about Cafasso campaigning for Pat Buchanan is sourced as: Gilliam, Todd J.. "Buchanan secures Texas spot for Reform in presidential bid", The Dallas Morning News, May 9, 2000. “Joe Cafasso, the campaign worker who coordinated the statewide effort from an Irving hotel room, said he had expected to need 'body armor' when he arrived in Bush territory but found the Texans highly receptive.”
User:Pleasantville had provided the reference with a link to a search result on the DMN website. These kinds of search results often expire after awhile and are hard to verify, so I searched their main archives ] for "Joe Cafasso" and for the quote cited (in its entirety and using specific phrases), which returned the same result. Alcarillo 16:01, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I forgot to mention that I included the DMN archive page in the reference's URL, not any link to the actual article. Following the search parameters above will turn up that article in the search result. Alcarillo 16:03, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think a link to the tax forms might be useful as further record of his involvment in the campaign. Alcarillo 21:01, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  lists a number of disbusements from the campaign to Cafasso. I'm not sure how to word a bibliographic citation.Pleasantville 21:17, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. I'll add it in when I get a minute. Alcarillo 23:15, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dallas Morning News source 

message: It is pretty easy to verify via publicly available sources that the late Joseph Anthony Cafasso, Sr. (1924 - 1995; Brown University class of 1950) and the late Giovanna "Jenny" Mosca Cafasso (1923-2006) are the parents of Joseph A. Cafasso, Jr. There are many public records (directory listings, etc.) showing them at the same Carteret address from which Joseph A. Cafasso, Jr. published The Broken Arrow. Both parents are listed in Carteret, NJ in the Social Security Death Index. JA Cafasso, Sr. is listed at the Swarthmore Dr. address in 1990s phone directories, etc. Cafasso Sr.'s Brown University obit.
So why were references to his parentage supported by his parents' obits deleted? Mr. Cafasso, Jr. is in the habit of borrowing aliases and bios from other members of his extended family when convenient. So the fact that his mothers maiden namer is Mosca and also the names of his siblings are of some importance.Pleasantville 20:59, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The names of his parents could be put in. As far as the details about them, I don't think it's germaine to this article. Alcarillo 23:20, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why were references to his parentage cut? 

message: Have advised 74.227.45.202 (who also edits as 70.152.105.243) of WP:AUTO. --Pleasantville 11:00, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: How do you know it's the same person? -Will Beback · † · 17:22, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That Peppetters is Cafasso is pretty obvious from what he has to say. Also, he repeats material from a private email to me threatening legal action. And there is some repetition of material from the unregistered edits and those under his new ID. Pleasantville 17:57, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  74.227.45.202 

message: There's a new article out on Cafasso from a paper so small it doesn't have a web site. More detail later. I have ordered a print copy and sent in my $3.00 check. --Pleasantville 23:08, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  New article 

message: Entire paragraphi is sourced from same article. Image of printed article avilable upon request. --Pleasantville 16:33, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I suggest you post the scanned image of the article on an image hosting site (or some other webpage), with the publisher and date of publication clearly visible, and inlcude a link to it in the footnote. Alcarillo 15:22, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Restored cut of portion of Religious Activities. 

message: The US armed forces do not issue honorable discharges to persons such as Cafasso who wash out of initial entry ("basic training" or "boot camp"); such persons receive an "administrative separation" that does not entitle them to any veterans benefits.
If Cafasso was a PFC when he was separated, then he was a PFC from the time he enlisted, most likely because he had 30 or more hours of college credits.  The Army does not promote trainees to higher grades while in basic training.
Short version: Cafasso washed out of basic after no more than 6 weeks of training.  Probably less, since he likely spent at least a week in an inprocessing {"Reception") company before starting basic.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.152.94.226 (talk) 11:31, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cafasso "administratively separated" rather than "honorably discharged" 

message: There is a noted lack of WP:PERSISTENCE in the news and other secondary source regarding Cafasso since his outing and separation in 2002, aside from his assorted criminal activities, which everyone stopped caring about since 2009.  I cannot find anything particularly notable about him enough to warrant his own article, since the primary matter of interest is covered in Fox News Channel controversies.  His crimes also do not warrant notability, per WP:PERP.  I'm considering AFD unless someone can offer a compelling reason not to.Legitimus (talk) 17:47, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible deletion 

message: Substituted at 20:30, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Added archive https://archive.is/20130221211400/http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2007/10/08/nuke-transportation-story-has-explosive-implications/ to http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2007/10/08/nuke-transportation-story-has-explosive-implications/
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thread_title:  External links modified