Talk:Osroene

message: I would be grateful for the source of this king list, because I cannot find one.  
I have looked in Moses of Chorene, Zuqnin Chronicle, Bar Hebraeus etc. etc.   and I cannot find the origin of this king list.  
Can you help me?
Tatelyle (talk) 09:58, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  King List  -  citations? 

message: Can we add Vowel markings to the Syriac spelling?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Assyrio (talk • contribs) 12:26, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Vowel Marks

message: I see no reason of removing the infobox. The City, regardless whether ruled by a Nabatean dynasty, was an important political entity that gave rise to the Syriac language which became the literal language of Aramaic speaking Syriacs/Assyrians in the following centuries. The kingdom has as well a distinctive form of Christianity that came do distinguish Syriac Christianity. So I see no reason for removing the infobox.--Rafy talk 19:07, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: As I mentioned in the change note, Assyrians are not even mentioned in the article. That, at a minimum, should be a requirement for an info box. The reason that Assyrians are not mentioned is discussed in the sections above this comment. Moreover, Syriac Christianity should not be confused with an Assyrian ethnicity. Of course, Assyrians are Syriac Christians, but this does not mean that all Syriac Christians must be Assyrians. Perhaps, the article should mention how Osroene has become part of modern Assyrianist historiography? That would certainly be suitable. But an infobox implies that Osroene's primary classification is Assyria, which is according to the weight of academic opinion, not the case. Best, Ordtoy (talk) 02:21, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It has been discussed may times and has proven by archaeological finds that Assyrians=Syrians, at least this is how ancient Greeks viewed them. Furthermore the infobox serves both Assyrians and Syriacs since their history is very intertwined and connected. And since this kingdom was a centre of Syrian independence which later became the heart of "national Syrian Christendom" (not my words) then this infobox is very relevant.--Rafy talk 11:12, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

text: I'll say it again: Assyrians are not mentioned in the Osroene article and Osroene is not mentioned in the History of the Assyrian People article. I am not anti-Assyrian but I am making edits based on the fact that not everything that is Syriac is automatically Assyrian.  Assyrian and Syriac history is, as Rafy said, intertwined, but that just means we have to be judicious about our use of these terms since they are not interchangeable (even if they have a common origin!). Incidentally, if we have opposing academic opinions, then I believe that all the opinions should be mentioned. Best Ordtoy (talk) 15:13, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: You don't believe in your last sentence. You want this article to be based solely on your sources and academics, as opposed to reality where there have been many of them that link Osroene and Assyria, as Rafy showed with his source. The fact of the matter is Osroene is part of Assyrian history, weather we like it or not.  Chaldean (talk) 12:35, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Rafy's source (Fortescue) talks of "Syrian independence" and "Syrian Christianity"... But the same author in the same source writes "They are Assyrians in no possible sense." Basically, Fortescue in this book and others rejects that "Syrian people" equals "Assyrian people". If you look at the next page, you can see Fortescue use the word "Assyrian" when he means "Assyrian". Ordtoy (talk) 13:50, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Fortescue calls Assyrians in general "Syrians", read his remark on Tatianus Assyrus. If you want to Change the name of Assyrian people to Syrian people then you might want to start a discussion somewhere else as this is hardly the right place for discussing the name conflict.--Rafy talk 14:21, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Rafy, Fortescue doesn't call "Assyrians", "Syrians" on that page. He says that the geographic "Assyria" coincides with "East Syria", so clearly in Fortescue's mind "Syria" and "Assyria" are different. Other parts of his books are very clear on this! I don't want to change the name of Assyrian people, but I don't want every "Syrian" changed into an "Assyrian"! Best Ordtoy (talk) 14:36, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe getting a third opinion would be best. How can you say "He says that the geographic "Assyria" coincides with "East Syria", and then you state  "so clearly in Fortescue's mind "Syria" and "Assyria" are different." That doesn't make any sense. If he considered Assyria to be East Syria, then obviously he's connecting Assyria with Syria. Like Rofy said, this conversation doesn't belong here, so by default your reason for the deletion of the template is flaud. Chaldean (talk) 06:54, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Chaldean. In Fortescue's book, he rejects that Assyria=Syria. On the one page Rafy mentioned, he explains that geographically "the land of the Assyrians" overlaps with Eastern Syria (two geographic entities often overlap). If "the land of the Assyrians"=Syria then it would have to overlap with Syria entirely not partially. The point is that you can't read that one sentence and declare that Fortescue believes Assyria=Syria, when he explicitly rejects this theory in his book. Ordtoy (talk) 13:17, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: removal of [[Template:History of Assyrian people|History of Assyrian people]] infobox

message: revision: "Osroene became the first Christian state in history under the rule of king Abgar IX" with sources 
* Warwick Ball. Rome in the East: The Transformation of an Empire. — Routledge, 2000 — p. 95 — ]:"Thus, it is Abqar the Great who lays claim to being the world's first Christian monarch and Edessa first Christian state.". Full quote "More significant than Bardaisan's conversion to Christianity was the conversion -reported by Bardaisan - of Abgar the Great himself." The conversion is controversial, but whether or not he became a Christian, Abgar had the wisdom to recognise the inherent order and stability in Christianity a century before Constantino did. Ho encouraged it as essential for maintaining Edessa's precarious balance between Rome and Iran. Thus, it is Abgar the Great who lays claim to being the world's first Christian monarch and Edessa the first Christian state. More than anything else, a major precedent had been set for the conversion of Rome itself. // The stories of the conversions of both Abgar V and Abgar VIII may not be true, and have been doubted by a number of Western authorities (with more than a hint at unwillingness to relinquish Rome's and St Peter's own primogeniture?). But whether true or not. the stories did establish Edessa as one of the more important centres for early Christendom."
* Biographical Dictionary of Christian Missions: "By the late third century, Edessa was already being called the first Christian kingdom". Full quote "He is said to have converted its first-century king (ostensibly Abgar V) and established a church in the Jewish-Christian community (which rapidly outgrew its Jewish roots) . Addai appointed a successor, Aggai. From these beginnings came the ancient church of the East (later called the Nestorian church). Although the tradition includes obviously fictitious embellishments, if the story is transposed to second-century Edessa under Abgar VIII (177-212), it gains arguable plausibility. By the late third century, Edessa was already being called the first Christian kingdom."
* The Gospel of The Gnostics - Originally published 1958 by The Theosophical Publishing House Adyar. Madras. India. Theosophical Publishing House is not a reliable sources.
Divot (talk) 13:55, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fake sources 

message: I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:
::This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:
::#There is consensus on the talkpage or the NPOV Noticeboard that the issue has been resolved
::#It is not clear what the neutrality issue is, and no satisfactory explanation has been given
::#In the absence of any discussion, or if the discussion has become dormant.
Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 14:52, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  removing POV tag with no active discussion per [[Template:POV]] 

message: This user (a new one but wow he is very experienced) made edits claiming the dynasty of Edessa was native Assyrian using this source from 1913 The Lesser Eastern Churches (even this source state that the name Ma'no is of Arabic root). However, this book does not mention the word Assyrian regardless of what the user will say about that it is the same meaning. 
Now, what is known that the dynasty was Nabatean. 
*This book The Persian Presence in the Islamic World, by Richard G. Hovannisian and George Saliba, published by Cambridge University Press obviously states this fact. 
*This book The Arabs by Maxime Rodinson, published by University of Chicago Press also state the fact that they were Aramised. 
*This book Edessa: The Blessed City by Judah Segal again state the acknowledge historical fact. 
*This book The Curse of Ham: Race and Slavery in Early Judaism, Christianity, and Islam: Race and Slavery in Early Judaism, Christianity, and Islam by Hebrew scholar David Goldenberg, published by Princeton University Press again state the fact AND lets not forget that Tacitus specifically describe Abgar as an Arab. 
*This Cults and Beliefs at Edessa by H. J. W. Drijvers, again state the fact. 
*Finally this book Rome and the Arabs: A Prolegomenon to the Study of Byzantium and the Arabs by Irfan Shahid also state this common knowledge !
Now I know (with 99% of certainty but I could be mistaken so if I am then sorry) that Ordo de Essentia is Eddie Drood. His style is unmistakable. But I wont do a thing about sockpuppetry. However, I wont leave this Historic forgery to continue.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 19:13, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Latest edits by Ordo de Essentia

message: I just checked up the article and its last few edits, since they were marked r on the recent changes page. Clearly, this is no vandalism, and also most of the new content is written originally, however, when putting some of the texts into Google, a few bits showed up in Encyplopaedia Iranica, partly copied and only minimally modified. It is cited as a source in the ref brackets. I have no clue about the topic, so I'll leave this with people who are more confident in the field. Thanks -ImmernochEkelAlfred(Spam me! (or send me serious messages, whatever you like)) 16:12, 2 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Close paraphrasing 

message: I don't understand why  reverted the addition of maps by . Can someone explain to me what the issue was? Thanks! Sondra.kinsey (talk) 14:22, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Maps 

message: An edit is needed in the Kingdom section, where it is stated that "Osroene was absorbed into the Roman Empire in 114 as a semiautonomous vassal state, after a period under the rule of the Parthian Empire, incorporated as a simple Roman province in 214. There is an apocryphal legend that Osroene was the first state to have accepted Christianity as state religion, but there is not enough evidence to support that point of view." First, Osroene was not an independent state, therefore ot could not adopt Christianity as state religion. Second, no substantial evidence exists to support that hypothesis. Whereas the Kingdom of Armenia was an independent state formation and there is  overwheling evidence that Armenia was the first state that adopted Christianity as its state religion in 301 AD.--96.231.5.33 (talk) 17:51, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Osroene as first state to have accepted Christianity is wrong