Talk:Irish neutrality

message: I believe the statement on Ireland suffering more casualties than any other country in the UK in this article is factually incorrect.  According to statistics available on the web, Scotland suffered more fatalities (147,609) than the total number of Irishmen who volunteered from August 1914 to the end of the war (134,202).
:This article, which is entirely the work of User:66.185.84.208, needs substantial work. It is full of inaccuracy - for example, there was no conscription in Ireland during World War I! User_talk:66.185.84.208 seems to have a history of vandalism, although it is a shared IP and the article does have *some* valid material amid the inaccuracy. Blorg 16:37, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Having read through it, I think it is likely to have been a school project that was donated to Wikipedia; I don't think there was an intention to defraud and the inaccuracies are probably due to inadequate research. I've fixed some of the problems but it still needs attention from someone more knowledgeable about Irish history. Blorg 17:04, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I've copy-edited and added sections and links etc. to the article, hopefully without significantly altering the meaning of the contents which I'm not knowledgable enough to re-write. On this basis, I've removed the 'clean-up' template and replaced it with 'disputed' as I consider this now more accurately reflects what still needs to be addressed in this article. I toyed with an 'attention' marker, but as other editors have commented on inaccuracy I settled on 'disputed' Valiantis 19:57, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

text: I attempted some further edits, I hope they don't conflict. I do not consider the article remotely neutral yet. It is important that the article examine the nature of Irish neutrality, but also recognises that the matter is one for debate (the issue is suitably ambiguous on a number of points). The article should recognise that as far as official policy goes, Ireland is neutral. Even if the situation on the ground runs contrary to some common neutrality principles. zoney ♣ talk 19:42, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: casualties

message: As I said in an earlier version that got edited out, the Dongeal corridor was used by the RAF prior to the US entering the war, it was used by the recce plane that spotted the Bismarck.  It must have been fairly common knowledge that they were overflying Donegal since it did not make sense to have a flying boat base on Lough Erne otherwise. PatGallacher 08:33, 2005 August 4 (UTC)
:why was it removed? --194.125.111.194 10:30, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Dongeal corridor

message: "The Irish government did not take a position on the 2003 Invasion of Iraq, although most of the population were against it"
This is almost certainly true but there are no official statistics or sources cited to back it up. Perhaps it should be changed to "...although a majority of the population appeared to oppose it". It's a bit cumbersome but it's important to maintain the article as NPOV.Dmitry 21:05, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Insertions of "seemed/appeared", like the Passive of Non-Attribution, do not create neutrality in contexts where it does not already exist. If the remark were about public treatment in the press, however, it would gain some authenticity. --Wetman 02:52, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Iraq 

message: I've removed the following statement from the Current Events section because it's unclear or untrue:
:Today, in theory, Ireland could join any war it pleases, through an Act of the Oireachtas.
What does the author mean by "join any war"? Does "join" mean to send Irish troops? Does "any war" mean even a conflict which was not on all fours with the UN Charter and International Law (e.g. Iraq War)? Does "war" mean an armed conflict? Slackr 15:09, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Current Events and meaning of "war"

message: User 81.170.13.118 has mentioned Churchill's tirade against deV and deV's reply, referencing another wiki.  The other wiki gives a short quote from deV's speech and incorrectly claim it to be complete.  Quotations from Eamon deValera by Proinsias MacAonghusa isbn 08853426848 has a much longer extract.  ClemMcGann 21:22, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Dev's reply to Churchill

message: In the referenced sub heading (pasted below)the following statement is made:
<As a member of the UN Security Council, Ireland voted yes to Resolution 1441>. 
As far as I have been able to determine, Ireland is not a member of the UN or a member of the UN Security Council.  So I think this statement is erroneous.  I will leave it up to someone else to correct this.   
teekey 17:58, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Irish neutrality - sub heading Recent Conflicts 

message: This article, although generally true, is badly under referenced.  Sources that are reliable need to be found - www.reform.org is not such a source becuase it is a partisan organization and violates  policy on using online sources.  Of particular concern are the assertions in the section Current policy - most of the points made are, I think, generally accepted by Irish people but there is no proof cited to back-up these claims.  Can anyone help this page by referencing it?--Cailil 00:56, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  references 

message: The article Irish neutrality during World War II has been nominated for deletion. Please add your opinion to the discussion on AfD. --sony-youthpléigh 22:22, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wherever it ends up, the World War II section of this article should be merged with any useful additions from User:Sony-youth's essay. The way, the truth, and the light 02:32, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Irish neutrality during World War II 

message: What a ridiculous piece of political correctness, What possible influence could Eire have made in the 1940's.  The Irish State in the Emergency had no policy and no intent, either by design or accident that influenced the fate of the Jewish People in Germany, it seems en vogue these days for Governments around the world to apologise for something that they never  did.  What Rubbish,  over 3000 + FULLY INTEGRATED Irish Jews lived in and around Dublin during the war and none of these people were ever at the receiving end of any specific Irish Government Policy pertaining to their beliefs.  in Fact they remain to this day Irish first and Jewish Second.
Utter tosh, remove please.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.242.124.108 (talk) 10:37, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What utter crap. No one knew the holocaust was happening during the second world war apart from the Nazis themselves, so to say Ireland should have helped stop it is utter revisionist bullshit. You are looking from hindsight with all the known facts and applying your moral judgments when, for Ireland at the time, such moral judgments could not have been made. Also the "air gap" was extended by no more than a couple of hundred miles out of more than three thousand miles by Ireland's neutrality, so again nil points. There was no moral obligation on Ireland to take take any side during WW2, as far as the Irish were concerned it was just the big powers slugging it out and they were going to try and keep out of the way.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.1.39.0 (talk) 23:28, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  WWII Anti Semitic Apology ? 

message: "the severe mid- April 1941 raids on Belfast, which so taxed the Northern fire brigades that they perforce asked help from Dublin. Dublin sent up their resources to Belfast, breaking neutrality - the only instant in the War," -- 172.173.17.25 (talk) 08:51, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: The Independent. London (UK): Dec 17, 1999.  pg. 2 

message: The Article is so bad (full of inaccuracies and primary-school type commentary) that I think it shoule be deleted. Any support for this? Regards. Redking7 (talk) 21:15, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Not from me, though I agree it could co with improvement. Perhaps you can get a hold of the recent book That Neutral Island by Clare Wills, which has quite a lot of good info which I feel could help. I just don't have any time for this right now myself. ww2censor (talk) 21:47, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I sympathize with the despair.  However that is not a reason to give up.  I'm reading "Guarding Neutral Ireland" by Michael Kennedy (he gave an excellent talk "U-boats in the Irish Sea", a month ago)  ClemMcGann (talk) 23:25, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

text: Also try Censorship in Ireland, 1939-1945 by Donal Ó Drisceoil. I have this and must review it again to see if it is of use to us. Cheers ww2censor (talk) 00:04, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: As it stands it is so inaccurate that it is positively misleading. However, good luck with trying to improve it ClemMcGann. When you have done some work on it, I will no doubt come back and have another look....One thing I would mention for starters is that the opening line is most likely....Did the Irish Free State always have a neutral policy...I do not think so!....Regards. Redking7 (talk) 21:18, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I wasn't volunteering.  Its not top of my list.  I agree with you, neutrality started late in 1939.  deV as president of the League of Nations offered Irish troops to take on the Italians in Abyssinia.   Another issue - the North Strand bombings - the Germans were just lost - the dumped their bombs to gain height to escape our anti-aircraft fire.  In the meantime in Dublin on Sunday 23rd and in Cork on the 30th remember those who died on Irish Ships during the Emergency. ClemMcGann (talk) 22:26, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Winston Churchill later conceded that the raids might have been the result of a British invention which distorted Luftwaffe radio guidance beams.--Wgh001 (talk) 18:27, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Delete the article? 

message: I have tagged as dubious the claim that Ireland did not join NATO because the UK was a member and its dispute over the status of NI.  This reads like somebody made it up.  Non-membership of NATO was entirely consistent with the neutrality policy. Sweden took the same view.  Unless somebody produces a citation very soon, I shall delete it. --Red King (talk) 00:47, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: i agree ClemMcGann (talk) 00:59, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: NATO non-membership: dubious claim

message: Started moved section
At ceremonies for the first Holocaust Memorial Day in Ireland, 26 January 2003, Justice Minister Michael McDowell openly apologised for an Irish wartime policy that was inspired by "a culture of muted anti-semitism in Ireland," which discouraged the immigration of thousands of Europe's threatened Jews. He said that "at an official level the Irish state was at best coldly polite and behind closed doors antipathetic, hostile and unfeeling toward the Jews".
End moved section
To facilitate the discussion I have moved the entire section out of the article to this talk page. I noticed today that an editor claimed that (s)he had checked the sources and that there was nothing dubious about this section. But I disagree with this. To my opinion this is a typical storm in a glass water, giving undue weight this subject. Most clear point is that it is based on sources unfit for this purpose, like an facebook page and an op-ed. And sorry, I can not find "TotallyJewish.com" in this case sufficiently independent.
i like to hear other opinions about this section. The Banner talk 21:08, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Good idea. Lugnad (talk) 01:56, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Holocaust Memorial Day 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Were did ww2 happen in northern Ireland 109.76.57.99 (talk) 19:28, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  History 

message: "Adducing"? really? this is why there are less and less new editors, because of the unnecesary ever-increasing complexity of the language in articles. 66.81.170.3 (talk) 14:26, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Concept section