Talk:Akatsuki (Naruto)/Archive 14

message: Since Itachi said Madara made Akatsuki, wouldn't that mean he is a member?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.214.76.123 (talk) 01:43, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Madara a Member 

message: Since Tobi does have the Sharringon, it should be safe to say that he is a Uchiha clan member. so shouldn't his name be Tobi Uchiha?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.214.76.123 (talk) 06:21, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This doesn't really prove anything, as Kakashi has the Sharingan and he is not an Uchiha. --Naruto Tron 21:17, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Although is a good theory, this is still original research.Tintor2 (talk) 18:44, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: My friend and I think that Tobi might be Uchiha Madara's spirit inhabiting Uchiha Obito's body, but we can't say anything in the article that hasn't been confirmed. The theory may be easily proven false, we're just waiting for the mask to come off.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.130.46 (talk) 03:44, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tobi Uchiha 

message: Please excuse me if this has already been asked or questioned, but isn't it better to include one small picture of each member, positioned next to their texts? I think this was done long way before but don't know exactly why they were erased.
:From what I remember they were removed because they caused the page to have too many non free images on the page. --70.48.172.140 (talk) 00:20, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Akatsuki Members File Photo's 

message: In the article both 'Pein' and 'Pain' are being used. Please make up your mind and make the appropriate edits. The article doesnt look good now. Survival705 (talk) 14:13, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: At the time you posted this comment, the article only referred to him as Pain.  It still only refers to him as Pain. –Gunslinger47 19:36, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name inconsistency 

message: Or, at least, his individual section. It's becoming pretty apparant that, due to being six characters in one, there will probably be a lot more to talk about with him than with other members. He's already at three paragraphs, and adding in additional details, such as the origins of his other individual bodies (a few of their villages can now be confirmed), or their various combat styles, abilities, and techniques, may inflate his section a lot. While I don't think anything needs to be done yet, it may be prudent to start brainstorming for a solution now. I was thinking a seperate section in this article, or a unique article for the Six Paths of Pain might work, while the Yahiko body wearing the ring remains in the article, but with so much about the character intentionally confusing and mysterious, who knows? WtW-Suzaku (talk) 06:59, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Pain will not get an article until there is conception/reception information on him. If length becomes an issue in this article, we'll simply shorten his entry. ~SnapperTo 18:32, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ouch. "Information can't be forced into the proper Wikipedia format? Then it's not important anyway." That being said, I don't think Pain has overgrown his paragraphs just yet. Seems to me that none of the Akatsuki are likely to ever get their own article, though, after the Itachi debate. Feebas factor (talk) 19:14, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes that does seem to be the standard now.Sam ov the blue sand, Editor Review 21:31, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pain may soon outgrow this article... 

message: Due to the events of this latest Arc, Pain/Pein deserves to have a main article for him, so what is known about him can be expanded.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by SuperSaiyaMan (talk • contribs) 16:04, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Soon Pain may outgrow his article, but for now, let's stick with WP:CRYSTAL and WP:FICT and keep him here. Sasuke9031 (talk) 18:04, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pain/Pein getting his own main article... 

message: Hey all, I just saw theres an incorrect ref on the page. [38] Naruto manga chapter 365, page 11 in the context of "The Rinnegan, first possessed by the founder of the ninja world and characterized by a number of concentric circles around the pupil, gives the wielder access to all six types of elemental chakra.[38]". It should be chapter 375, page 11. DarkPegasus (talk) 15:09, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If that's so, then feel free to make the changes yourself. Be bold in your editing. Cheers, Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 16:50, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A nice sentiment, but DarkPegasus would be unable to comply. His account isn't old enough. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 07:04, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: By the way, i was reading Chakra page and reliazed that paragraph says there are 5 type of elemental chakra(earth,fire,water,wind,lightning) but as DarkPegasus wrote above, in the manga page, it is written that "six types of elemental chakra". What is the sixth one? fotte (talk)  10:25 , 13 December 2007  —Preceding comment was added at 08:26, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Most likely Yin-Yang, since Jiraiya literally says "Six types of chakra nature manipulation" and Yin-Yang is called a type of chakra nature manipulation by Yamato. JadziaLover (talk) 17:08, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

text: We don't have verification on that.  We have confirmation that it is a type of elemental chakra since it works with the chakra trench knives.  Current speculation labels it potentially as the "dark chakra" mentioned by Yamato. –Gunslinger47 16:46, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Kakashi told Naruto it would be too complicated for him and would only confuse him more. I personally think it's mostly Fire element, but until it is further explained in either the manga or an official sourcebook then it is undetermined. What chapter does Yamato ever mention "dark chakra"?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.171.0.149 (talk) 23:04, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yamato doesn't mention "dark chakra" he mentioned "Yin-Yang chakra," or more specifically, "Yin-Yang chakra nature manipulation". This "Yin-Yang chakra" is apparently the source for things like medical jutsu, genjutsu, Chouji's Baika no Jutsu and Shikamaru's Kagemane no Jutsu, since Yamato advises Kakashi to wait with explaining "Yin-Yang chakra" after Naruto asked about how these jutsu work. JadziaLover (talk) 01:52, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: I suggest these headings be murged. When the series concludes and Akatsuki is both disbanded and all dead, everyone will wind up being a former member and the headings will bge obsolete anyway. It's part of the in universe reference that the header of teh article is talking about. I suggest a single list of "Memebers" consisting of all known characters to wear one of the ten rings and a cloak (Kabuto and Yura being those not in that category).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.130.17 (talk) 04:21, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, but while I heartily agree, Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. Sasuke9031 (talk) 06:13, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Even so, contextually, Deidara is a current member durring the Rescue Gaara Arc. The arc still exists, and thus Deidara is not a former member, just a member. I understand that it's speculation to say "Akatsuki will disband or be destroyed by the end of the series" but we're not saying that in the article, all we'd be saying is "these are the known members of Akatsuki from the beginning of the series to the end of the series", it breaks no rules I know of, and it not in the 'in universe' style of continuity.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.130.17 (talk) 05:17, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well i suppose if you feel that strongly that it does not violate any policy here on Wikipedia then feel free to be bold. Sasuke9031 (talk) 02:12, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But try not to be a smart ass about it, I dont apreciate that very much.Sam ov the blue sand, Editor Review 21:51, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly how was that being a smart ass?--TheUltimate3 (talk) 22:25, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Man, that Deidara-is-still-alive-in-the-anime was a really bad argument, you know. Wikipedia holds with the most recent information, does it not? The anime is behind the manga, in the manga Deidei has gone to the place beyond, thus he's a former member... According to the stick-to-the-anime logic, we shouldn't update this page until the Americanized Naruto anime gets to this point, which, IMO, would just be stupid. 81.228.148.16 (talk) 18:09, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's not what I was saying. What I was saying was that Deidara was alive and a member at some point in the series, so he (in our universe) is still a member. Orochimaru... maybe he could be classified as a "former member" because he does not exist among their ranks at any point that he appears in the manga (except a flashback). You can't look at it from their world when you use 'current' and 'former', you have to look at it from ours, in which all the members are still members and don't exist as anything else. If you feel it necesary, feel free to add a short paragraph explaining the current roser changes in the manga, but I don't think it's needed if each member's entry mentions the circumstances around their death. Wikipedia may use the most recent information, but I think that it also has rules for works of fiction.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.130.17 (talk) 20:10, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

text: What was wrong with having all the members in the list, but having a "current status" sub-listing for each of them? - Pottski.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pottski (talk • contribs) 01:58, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Current" and "Former" Members 

message: Kakuzu's article states that he integrates various organs, not only hearts... That has never been stated in the manga and Kakuzu never expressed any interest in any other organs but hearts. 81.228.148.16 (talk) 18:27, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. I'm sure he could take other organs if he wanted to, but he specifically refers to hearts in my copies of the various chapters. ~SnapperTo 18:41, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Original Research? 

message: It was "150 in part I" and "31 in part II" since only the first one had a source, I used common sense to correct it, hope there's no error. --XClaudiox (talk) 19:44, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, nevermind, vandal's work, undoing some edits. --XClaudiox (talk) 19:54, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kisame's age 

message: in the preview of the next naruto chapter, it shows itachi dead. if it is true, then we should put him under former members.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.214.76.123 (talk) 06:11, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: yea he is dead--Blue-EyesGold Dragon 03:58, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Yes, you don't ask a dead man a question. That's just stupid. And who knows? It could be a clone. Jazz Band Member (talk) 12:35, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: yeah itachi killed an entire clan i don't think that Kishimoto would have him killed that easly.Darthwin (talk) 16:39, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Chapter [385] says the entire fight so far has been genjutsu on both sides.  Itachi survives.  As a side, Madara helped Itachi kill his clan. –Gunslinger47 04:57, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: yes itachi is alive, and i think you mean 385--Blue-EyesGold Dragon 07:03, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Right, 385.  Corrected, thanks. –Gunslinger47 22:24, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Itachi Dead? 

message: after getting blown up by deidara, tobi/madara is talking to pain...like he teleported  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.35.58.130 (talk) 22:55, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I doubt it was that far, especially for a ninja, to have run. If he was still in Hi no Kuni, then Rain is an adjasent country, and is much smaller than Kaze no Kuni. Also, Tobi/Madara is probably really fast, even for a ninja.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.130.15 (talk) 16:01, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  has anyone realized this 

message: In the article it is said that members scratch their headband to show that they no longer have allegiance to their village. What about Pein? He is still with his village. 60.50.72.237 (talk) 03:20, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: He is loyal to his Amegakure. He destroyed the original. ~SnapperTo 03:28, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It could also be A)to gain the trust of other Akatsuki; or B) a mistake by Kishimoto. Either way, it isn't worth worrying about. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares (talk) 21:02, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  headband 

message: I read somewhere once that Zetsu's from Kusagakure, is this true? Scorpio777 (talk) 20:05, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a fan theory. And no, it isn't. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares (talk) 21:01, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Zetsu from Kusa 

message: Is it important saying in what ring does the member wear it? Still it hasnt be proved that the ring position is important. It would be like saying in what part of the body the ninja uses his headband.
Other thing is that the info of the ring is repeated saying the member and the main ring info. I will be bold.Tintor2 (talk) 0:57, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The characters have stressed a high value and importance to the rings. As of yet it is unknown as to why, but it might have to do with the Biju sealing ritual (as they all stand on the same finger they wear teh ring on). Deidara expressed more concern for his ring than the arm attatched to it after it was blown off, and Tobi assumed he could join just because he found Sasori's ring.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.130.15 (talk) 15:56, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minor info? 

message: what does the character on the chair that itachi is siting on read?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.255.50.36 (talk) 00:29, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It looks like . –Gunslinger47 04:04, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  character 

message: Stupid question: The article says the ring is "formerly worn" by Orochimaru. Now since the ring is still on what is technically his arm, wouldn't that count as him still wearing it?  Lastbetrayal (talk) 04:32, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm, never thought of that. I guess it's because it's not on his current body. Jazz Band Member (talk) 12:43, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Maby we could mention something about it in the article... -Tobi4242 (talk) 00:40, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orochimarus ring 

message: As it just happened in the last issue, and towards the end at that, the actual death hasn't been confirmed, as Itachi is a master of illusions. I deleted the line signifying his death, and suggest it is left that way until actually confirmed.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.171.132.72 (talk) 17:43, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, you can use an edit summary to explain your actions rather than posting here, if you'd like. See Help:Edit summary if you're interested. –Gunslinger47 19:30, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: also dead people dont talk...much--Blue-EyesGold Dragon 23:22, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well there's that whole "night of the living dead" thing, but that's another story. lol Sam ov the blue sand, Editor Review 20:01, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: lol--Blue-EyesGold Dragon 00:52, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Itachis death" 

message: Guys.. I've been thinking, why do we separate the Akatsuki members into current and former members? When the Naruto story ends, Pein and his remaining gang will get killed/captured(eventually, duh). So when that happens, you want to put all of them into former members? Doesnt sound right to me. I have little knowledge about wikipedia but I think this article should not be presented as the events unfolds. So I think we should remove the current/former thingy and just explain how they died for each member. Survival705 (talk) 04:18, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Right now it's a good way to keep things organized. If everyone is killed, we will obviously put it together, and say all of the members are dead. Jazz Band Member (talk) 12:42, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: But the thing is i see no reason to separate them. It does not making any sense because as of now the fate of the remaining members are unknown. The fact that we state 'current members' means we are telling a story rather than writing an article. Survival705 (talk) 15:24, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Guys, remember, wikipedia not a crystal ball. -Tobi4242 (talk) 00:37, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: All the more reason the current/former stuff should be dropped. Alright, so we do not know whether the members will eventually get killed, but if we keep transfering members from the current ones to former members it will get very weird and not very encyclopedic. Again I'm suggesting just drop it and simply explain if they were eventually killed. Survival705 (talk) 03:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia's crystal ball rules detail predicting our future. Besides, not saying both current and former is not violating any rules. It is not unreasonable to think that they will all die eventually even if that may eventually be proven to not be the case, but we don't have to say or even apply that thought. Characters like Hidan in particular have no history outside of Akatsuki thus are never former members in our world because they only ever existed as an Akatsuki member. If someone asked you "who's the immortal Akatsuki guy?" You'd probably reply "Hidan", even though he is incapasitated in the most recent chapters. And the same conversation can go the opposite way. Nearly the same goes for Deidara, Sasori, Kakuzu, Konan, Pein, and Zetsu. Orochimaru also exists as the Snake Sannin, while Kisame also holds his own place among the seven mist swordsmen, and Itachi is the Uchiha traitor and Sasuke's brother above all else. Point is, if people want to know what's going on right now in teh manga, they read it. If they want information on Akatsuki that is organised and most of the time acurate, they come here. That means no speculation, the character's known history, their abilities, maybe the Biju they were assigned to capture (if known), their ring, and lastly how they died (if aplicable). They are all still Akatsuki members, even if they are dead in the current manga chapter.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.130.15 (talk) 15:46, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: He is right. -Tobi4242 (talk) 00:41, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

text: It seems that you guys still dont get it. I think just forget about it. You guys just cant see and understand the problem. No wonder this article is a target for a lot of deletionists Survival705 (talk) 04:21, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Current/former members 

message: Why has this been removed? Pain refers to his six selves as the "Pain Rikudou", and they are also referred to as the "Pain Rikudou" in the narration on one of the frontispieces. It's pretty significant to the character, as it ties in with the Samsara and various aspects of Buddhism that are present in Pain's character. I'm gonna add it back unless someone has a viable reason not to include it. WtW-Suzaku (talk) 15:19, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I suggest this link as source, if you need one... --Xander89 (talk) 12:36, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Six Paths of Pain (Pain Rikudou) 

message: just curious because it seems like a bunch of bullshit if you ask me. Because every picture i upload on to this stupid website gets deleted and its startin to piss me off.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Roxas255 (talk • contribs) 16:16, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You can't upload or use copyrighted images on Wikipedia unless there is a valid fair use for them appended to the image.  This is so that Wikipedia doesn't get sued into oblivion, and it's non-negotiable.  If you've questions, I suggest you try out the Wikipedia:Image copyright help desk.  Lankiveil (talk) 03:40, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: So pretty much take the screenshot yourself and you should be fine. I think.Sam ov the blue sand, Editor Review 17:46, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, no, because a screenshot of a copyrighted (read: almost all) TV show/movie is still copyrighted. --Pentasyllabic (talk) 19:04, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Scratch that, go to a site with premission to use a screen shot then ask them premission to use it, and you should be fine. I think.Sam ov the blue sand, Editor Review 02:22, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  what is a fair use rationale 

message: This article states that the Rin'negan lets Pein control all six types of elemental ckakra, firstly this isn't necessarily true as here may be another reason for this and secondly, this would lead readers to believe that this is the underlying basis behind the Rin'negans powers or that it is the only use of them, there are others such as the super weapon jutsu Pein plans to create  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alwayssummerdays (talk • contribs) 22:39, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: As you have no basis in fact for that, while the claim itself is firmly rooted in the text, what does your speculation have to do with the article? — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 01:49, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Your facts are flawed: the Rinnegan were called (not "are") a tool of god that could (not "will") save or destroy the world. Furthermore, Jiraiya states that the Rinnegan allowed Nagato to master every technique taught to him, but does not elaborate on what those techniques were. What the article said was correct, but I've reworded it to reflect the ambiguity that's in the chapter. ~SnapperTo 21:56, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Also, who knows how long ago that was? Everything Jiraiya knows was hearsay, which is hardly acountable for much since he said 'I didn't even think they really existed' and his really old frog summons shared that same thought. Who knows how much of it is rooted in fact and how much if an exagerated fabrication.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.130.35 (talk) 00:54, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Rin'Negan 

message: OK, so what, now that it's 2008 you guys think you can get away with Pein instead of Pain?  NO!!!  Snap or someone who has a script, help. Sasuke9031 (talk) 23:04, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I thought it was kind of weird that when we finally decide to use "Pain" (which I thought was the popular Romanization?) an IP decides to go militant about "Pein".—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 23:06, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks like someone with a script needs to fix this and then we need to request semi-protection. Sasuke9031 (talk) 23:11, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going to change it back. If someone wants to use Pein they can try to establish a new consensus. --67.71.77.153 (talk) 23:15, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks Sasuke9031 (talk) 23:26, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: So it's pain, right? SuperGodzilla 2090 23:33, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes we use Pain. We should ask for protection tag. Just check the history of the article. But now I need you to go to Naruto Uzumaki because sby is thinking of deleting the article.Tintor2 (talk) 01:21, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That AFD is already over. --67.68.153.14 (talk) 02:49, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok but I keep with the idea of a protection tag.Tintor2 (talk) 12:24, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Better do it soon because alot of people are calling him Pein instead of Pain. SuperGodzilla 2090 23:45, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Can anybody else? Supergodzilla20|90 03:00, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe protetion functions are restricted to admins. Sasuke9031 (talk) 04:30, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yea, you have to request Protection or Semi-Protection of a page by an admin. Use WP:RFPP to make your request. --GhostStalker(Got a present for ya! | Mission Log) 16:59, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It is done... Sasuke9031 (talk) 16:36, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  What happened to consensus?  Paeinful 2008? 

message: I personally think that the big ones like Itachi should have their own pictuer.Ultimaterasengan (talk) 01:39, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Major Akatsuki members 

message: After the latest chapter it seems obvious to me that we should merge the info of these two together.  It's been pretty much stated that they are the same person in every way possible.--66.229.89.202 (talk) 18:49, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Combining the two entries is inevitable, but people are likely to complain in the meantime (OMG, he iz whering mask. He Obito!). To avoid unwanted hassle, it would probably be best to keep them separate until such time that a clear link between the two (ie. why/when Madara became Tobi) is made. Until then, the current division makes it simpler to differentiate between Madara as Madara and Madara as Tobi. ~SnapperTo 19:07, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually in the new chapter Itachi mentions something about Akatsuki hiding Madara's face.Although I could be wrong though, because the translation I got ahold of was kinda crappy.Lastbetrayal (talk) 18:04, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Ya, it probaly was. -Tobi4242 (talk) 22:32, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tobi/Madara Uchiha 

message: In the most recent manga,It is said that Madara/Tobi formed akatsuki and was also behind the ninetailed fox attack on konahoa in the beinning of the series. It also explains most of his past. This should all be metioned in the tobi section, bacause he is madara. P.S. we should change the header of that same section from "tobi" to Tobi/Madara uchiha, knocking off of the idea of merging. -Tobi4242 (talk) 22:31, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: if we put tobi/madara it will mess up the links  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blue eyes gold dragon (talk • contribs) 23:48, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: tobi should be changed to Madara Uchiha as it is now clear that Tobi is Madara--Blue-EyesGold Dragon 01:11, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't forget about the first part. forget about the headingpart.-Tobi4242 (talk) 01:17, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tobi 

message: The article on tobi implies that he is the leader in stead of pien. Is this correct, false or did I reed it wrong? Sakumo (talk) 01:31, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: well i see it as madara created akatsuki, pein is the leader, but then madara orders pein around, its a bit hard to know--Blue-EyesGold Dragon 02:32, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Akatsuki Leader 

message: After watching the dub just now on CN, I've recognized Tobi's voice as Quinton Flynn (I assumed it was Tobi cause only his right eye was visible), and Pain is voiced by Dave Wittenburg.    —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.120.97.162 (talk) 03:02, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It was pretty obvious it was those two, but there's nothing to suggest those will be the final voices. I guess we could add it in with an (Episode 135) side mark like with Skip as Itachi. The Splendiferous Gegiford (talk) 03:16, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds like a good idea, but we still need confirmation.Lastbetrayal (talk) 03:19, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There's usually never a need for confirmation. People who are good at picking out voices are usually all that's needed. The Splendiferous Gegiford (talk) 03:21, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I figured we'd need confirmation.  I did first assume Flynn was Deidara, but I only saw one eye visible, the right eye, and thought it as Tobi. Oh well.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.120.97.162 (talk) 03:23, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Not really. I mean, I already added Zetsu's voices based both on how they sounded and the names that were in the credits for ep 134. And yeah, Quinton Flynn's name was in the credits for 135. That's basically all that's really needed for confirmation I think. The Splendiferous Gegiford (talk) 03:31, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Yeah, I'm thinking it's probably best to go ahead and add their names with the (Episode 135) by it since it'll definitely cut back on the amount of other edits and reverts that are bound to come later. Anyone still object? Again, there's no real need for "confirmation" either since that usually doesn't come. Take Kisame for example. No one's officially stated Kirk Thornton is his voice actor, but we know it anyway based on what he sounds like and his name in the credits. The Splendiferous Gegiford (talk) 03:50, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  New English VAs 

message: Ok, seriously, like others have mentioned previously, the image at the top of the Akasuki page is a joke. We can only see Konan from the back, as well as Pain but he has his own pic in his description. August 2007 each member had their own picture, and you think Big Man confirmed that they were under fair use rationale? We either give every member their own pic or change the one at the top of the article using any one of the dozens of accurate fan artwork of the Akatsuki grouped together. We're giving clear consenus and the wiki is mightly. I'm sorry, I know Wikipedia is not a democracy, but giving clear consenus is about the same trick, so have at it.
67.140.56.159 (talk) 03:35, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: We can't use fan art unless the artists agrees to license it under GPL or another compatible free license. –Gunslinger47 03:40, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Fanart is probably not the best thing to use.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 03:44, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Yeah, the problem is most fanart looks like crap. It's best to just stick with the original source. The Splendiferous Gegiford (talk) 03:45, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: True, but we still need something better than the spread we currently have. Lastbetrayal (talk) 03:47, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

text: I think it would be best to wait until a proposed replacement picture is found because I belive the problem is more would be whether the new picture is apporpiate than an issuse of people not wating to remove the old picture. --70.48.172.149 (talk) 22:59, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article in need of new image. 

message: we need to have a individual picture for each member. they don't have their own page so that is the only way to show who is who.   —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nichomas (talk • contribs) 19:58, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, then it's their own fault, because the picture's caption lists the members from left to right.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 20:22, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Wikipedia:NFC#Non-free image use in list articles. If someone needs to know what Sasori looks like they can use Google. ~SnapperTo 21:25, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Individual pictures for each Akatsuki member 

message: I am about 75% sure that Deidara is 19 years old in case you wanted to add his age.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shaydux (talk • contribs) 03:25, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: you have to be 100% sure to add it--Blue-EyesGold Dragon 11:44, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  deidara's age 

message: *Why is this VG Cats junk here.  It's not notable nor adds to the article in any way.  It's just one of many webcomics that have parodied Naruto before.  The references should be removed. JuJube (talk) 18:11, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Care to explain that with something resembling policy? From what I see you and your cronies have a serious WP:OWN problem. JuJube (talk) 09:18, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  VG Cats?! 

message: Tobi's section reads: "...he reffers to himself as Madara Uchiha". I don't know if I read the manga wrong but he said he owns Madara's power. His section should read likewise. And we now know it is possible to tranfer the mangekyo sharingan eyes among clansmen (this gives us a hint on how Tobi came up with the power and why Madara is weak). Tobi and Madara and the eyes are all separate entities (as Itachi says "Madara and his eyes"); Itachi says he hides behind akatsuki not Tobi until we get all this straighten up we should separate Madara from Tobi, any person who know nothing about naruto and reads this will asume that madara and tobi are the same. Bvazq (talk) 19:04, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tobi's identity 

message: Ok, I'm willing to keep the image we have up top as long as we add a pic of Konan by her description. I see that someone added a Sasori pic, being that he's not even in the top spread at all, but Konan is clearly not visible by any means whatsoever. That pic was made before Konan was introduced and I'd say Kishimoto would not be happy about one of his characters not being properly represented. -King Hooks 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Also, if a pic of Konan isn't added by week's end, I'll go to the admins for the articles deletetion and Wikipedia will be charged with sexism. 28 January 2008 (UTC)
:You don't get how Wikipedia works do you? This article has been nominated for deletion two or three times. Notice how its still here? While admins can cause almost unending trouble for the article, deletion still goes up to concensus.
And how can you sue for sexism? Konan ain't real. Nor is her not having an individual picture about gender. Pain didn't even get a picture until we learned he had six different bodies. Threatening to go to a higher authority if you don't get your way, how childish. Lastbetrayal (talk) 20:52, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: ...why would we need a picture of her anyway? The sum import of the picture would be "Konan is a young woman with blue hair in a bun". There, I described it in words, thus, according to the guidelines, no pic is needed.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 21:18, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

text: 'Kay. In fact, I think we could probably remove all the pictures except the depiction of the statue and possibly Pain's six bodies - the only information really added by the main pic can be described in text, and thus, there is no justification for having the image at the top. Thank you for once again dragging this subject to the natural conclusion of deleting nearly all the pictures.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 00:14, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Realistically speaking, the image of the statue could be removed as its main purpose (finger location) is described in-text. Of course, removing that would cause King IP to shout claims of appendagism... ~SnapperTo 00:31, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Why should she? She isn't hard to describe. Lastbetrayal (talk) 01:19, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Nichomas actually seemed to believe what he was saying, even though he was wrong, but I honestly can't think anything but that this King Hooks guy is a hoax. I say we just start ignoring him ("Don't feed the trolls"), and eventually it will turn out that some other editor was playing a "game" with us.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 01:51, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I thought that myself. So yeah, lets ignore him and hope he goes away. Lastbetrayal (talk) 02:00, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe Sasori needs his own image, but not anyone else. Everyone else except Orochimaru is in the picture at the beginning. Since Orochimaru has his own image on his article, Sasori is the only one who needs his own image. Maybe Konan could have her own as she is not shown very good in the top picture, but I am staying out of that. Note:Pain/Pein needs own image as he has six bodies, and of course, he already has one. Earthbendingmaster 02:07, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

text: The problem is, however, that the guidelines do not allow the reasoning of "every character needs an image", even if the images were free - it's "images are allowed if absolutely necessary to explain the subject".Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 03:10, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Let's Strike An Ageement. 

message: I am suggesting Konan has her own image, as she is poorly portrayed in the top image spread. Also, I suggest that Pain does Konan's bidding from now on. Please put Support or Oppose and a reason below. Thanks everyone. -King Hooks 02:56, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: thank you--Blue-EyesGold Dragon 03:47, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Konan Image 

message: Yeah. Well, the cover for volume 41 is released and seems legit, on Leafninja. All members, including Sasori and excluding Orochimaru, are on it. So, er, once a higher quality image comes out, should we use that instead? DarkRyan75 (talk) 20:26, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Where is it located exactly? The link I meant. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 20:41, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, sorry. http://www.leafninja.com This is the site which has it. DarkRyan75 (talk) 21:41, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

text: If it proves legit, a cropped version of it should be acceptable to replace the one at the top.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 00:27, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

text: It's the same problem with Zetsu and Orochimaru (I think). Neither of the two images fully show all members, so it's a matter of which shows more characters. ~SnapperTo 02:36, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, perhaps if we put in both images on the page, that would solve the problem. Though, I don't know a lot about these picture rules on Wiki. DarkRyan75 (talk) 03:52, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Using both would solve the problem, but because of various guidelines I wouldn't count on it happening. Lastbetrayal (talk) 03:58, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It shows Orochimaru and Sasori, and even the characters with their backs turned are much clearer than the image we have now. If people really want to make a fuss about only getting to see characters from the back, we can delete all the images and try to merely describe the characters using text.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 04:19, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

text: I was suggesting using the new picture.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 04:43, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I suggest we just keep it as it already is. In the one we already have, only Pain, Konan, and Kakuzu can't be seen, and Sasori isn't in it. Pain has a group image, so that leaves three. Kakuzu wears a mask, so make it two. Konan is simple enough: blue hair with origami flower in it. Sasori is our only problem now. As for the new one, several characters are not pictured nicely, so we'll have more problems that we already do. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares (talk) 21:57, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

text: I think we can safely ignore this guy, no offense, so i agree with Artist on this one.  I think it would just be easier on everyone if we kept the original. Sasuke9031 (talk) 05:28, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

text: OK, what part of an agreement with a respected user provides nothing?  It is you who does this.  Because of people like you, the Jiraiya page is semi-protected.  Again, I support Artist.  That will be all. Sasuke9031 (talk) 03:30, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Seriously, just ignore him. He either has no understanding of logic and the guidelines, or he's a troll.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 03:39, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Well, er. That cover is out in high quality now on LeafNinja.com. Just letting you know. DarkRyan75 (talk) 07:30, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Okay, So About the Akatsuki Images... 

message: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Akatsuki_%28Naruto%29&curid=1589591&diff=190358928&oldid=190252162 --The Last Uchiha 10:08, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  revert? 

message: should be added into it:
After two and a half years of training Sasuke, Orochimaru's current body begins to fail him, and he is forced to begin the body transfer on Sasuke. Sasuke, however, is unwilling to give him the chance and attacks a bedridden Orochimaru. Forced into a corner, Orochimaru reveals his true form and begins the transfer process, though Sasuke, like Itachi years earlier, is able to use his Sharingan to stop it. Setting himself apart from his brother, Sasuke also uses his Sharingan to take control of the dimension within Orochimaru, completely turning the process against him. When later asked by Kabuto about Orochimaru's fate, Sasuke explains that he has taken over Orochimaru, and retained possession of his body. After absorbing Orochimaru, Sasuke is able to heal at a faster rate, an ability he attributes to Orochimaru's white snake form.
While Orochimaru is considered dead in the eyes of the Naruto world, Kabuto has integrated what remained of Orochimaru into his body in an attempt to make himself into an entity even stronger than Orochimaru. The remains, however, seem to have some degree of consciousness, as they have since begun to slowly take control of his body.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by P159864 (talk • contribs) 04:33, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That's in the main article already, isn't it?  No sense adding it here when you can see it over there. Sasuke9031 (talk) 05:14, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orochimaru's death 

message: I have a question, why do you guys merge everything!?!? Do you guys get finned ever time you dont merge something. People like rock lee, itachi, shikamaru,negi, hinata. I mean why. If you say they are not doing much in the story right now so the can be meged, the merge naruto, sakura, and kakashi! They are barely doing anything now. plz unmerge all those people.--Naruto Beier (talk) 04:21, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Articles are merged because they fail to meet Wikipedia's notability guideline for fiction, not because of any so-called "importance" to the storyline. Standards have to be maintained. If suitable real-world notability is found for these characters, then they can have individual articles. Until then, they remain merged Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 04:35, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Besides, if I am reading the arbcom thing right, unmerging is in direct violation of the temporary injunction as placed in Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Episodes and characters 2.  To unmerge would result in a block, which is something I'm not keen on. Sasuke9031 (talk) 04:55, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  merging!!!! 

message: Amateratsu doesn't deserve to be listed under Itachi? I mean, it is the second and last jutsu that comes equipped with his Mangekyou...
T3H_CH0Z3N_0N3 (talk) 06:05, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: yeah its only the strongest nijutsu--The Last Uchiha 07:24, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

text: I sure want your time machine >_> we have always known that the MS had at least 3 different moves --The Last Uchiha 11:51, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  No Black Fire? 

message: I mean, Dave Wittenburg is listed for just one English episode, so why isn't the Japanese VA there? 19 February 2008 (UTC)
It because the japanese anime  hasn't released the voice actor name and simply anonymous right now24.17.233.242 (talk) 00:51, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, he hasn't been credited in any of the episodes he's appeared in. Same for Hidan and Kakuzu when they got speaking roles. The Splendiferous Gegiford (talk) 04:41, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who is Pain's JP seiyu? 

message: In addition to the fact that Zetsu's black and half sides appear to differ in certain opinions, recent chapters works as evidence that they differ in knowledge, too, with the black side often filling in with information for the white side... Just something I thought should be noticed. 81.224.28.233 (talk) 15:19, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Zetsu 

message: There is a statue of Susanoo outside konha temple in manga 314.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.47.88.22 (talk) 16:58, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Susanoo 

message: On the Itachi section there's OR I'd like to point out, namely: His final and strongest (whether Susanoo's power exceeds the other ones' is debatable.) ability, Susanoo (須佐能乎, Susanoo?), acquired only after mastering Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu, (pure speculation) creates a massive ethereal warrior that will fight on Itachi's behalf, and otherwise shields him from all attacks. Each ability is progressively more taxing for Itachi to use, such that after performing Susanoo he starts coughing up blood. (we do not know yet if that was because of Susanoo, or previously inflicted damage. Although I'm leaning towards the Susanoo-is-guilty explanation, I'd rather be safe and exclude possibly true information, than sorry and include straight-out incorrect one.)
Another thing worth pointing out is the fact that we currently have no information about Pain actually being the same person as Nagato. The fact that they have similar doctrines and philosophies does stand true, but it was also pointed out, even by Jiraiya himself, that none of the bodies is Nagato's. If erasing the information about Nagato being Pain is out of the question then it should at lest be mentioned that Nagato's real body has yet to make an appearance.
I'd also like to point out the fact that the first part of Tobi's section, the one dealing with his and Deidara's relationship, is written in presens instead of imperfect, this should be changed.
I suppose that's all I can come up with for the time being. Since I'm not the type to edit wiki-articles, I'll leave that up to you guys. Bye! 217.208.26.188 (talk) 14:24, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, Zetsu never states that Susasnoo is the strongest technique, but he does state that the Totsuka no tsurugi combined with the Yata no kagami renders Itachi invincible. Basically, you say poe-tay-toe, I say po-tah-toe... I'm not quite sure, but the newest chapter seems to suggest otherwise (it shows a flashback image of when Itachi got hit with the fuuma blade, suggesting that it may have something to do with that), however until a translated version is released I'll keep my answer on speculative hold... The first possessor of the Rinnegan that Jiraiya met was Nagato (長門, Nagato?), who, like Yahiko and Konan, was left orphaned by one of Amegakure's many wars. Once meeting the three, Jiraiya looked after them and taught them basic jutsu before leaving to continue his exploration of the world. Sometime after this, Nagato began to believe that his childhood sufferings had enlightened him, and started to view himself as a god destined to teach the world the meaninglessness of fighting. If this part doesn't imply/suggest/state that Pein = Nagato, then hardly nothing ever will. 217.208.24.163 (talk) 00:42, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Everything in your quote is true of Nagato. The following line, "It is unknown what happened after this, but the Pain entity soon appeared in Amegakure" should make clear the ambiguity of whether or not they are the same character. I was very careful to avoid saying Nagato = Pain when writing that section, but perhaps you can think of a better way to organize it? Entirely removing Nagato from the section would be the obvious solution, but it's simpler for the time being to keep them together. Thoughts? ~SnapperTo 03:15, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That is true... Do you think we could reach some kind of compromiss then? This part: Sometime after this, Nagato began to believe that his childhood sufferings had enlightened him, and started to view himself as a god destined to teach the world the meaninglessness of fighting. IS after all speculative in nature. If Nagato and Pein are one and the same it's obviously true, but if they're NOT it's actually speculation and OR... So, at the very best, do you think we could, if not remove that part on grounds of being speculative, at least change it to leave it a little more ambigious? 81.228.148.26 (talk) 10:11, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Since it is at the very least true of Pain, I moved it to the Pain portion of the paragraph. Is that better? ~SnapperTo 18:51, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

text: Umm, what part did you move, I honestly can't see the change? (Did someone change it back?) 81.228.148.26 (talk) 19:26, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, wait! I see it now! Sorry... Yes, I'm completely content. Thanks, Snapper2. ^^ 81.228.148.26 (talk) 19:37, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  I demand immediate cleanup. 

message: Some white snakes escaped from Orochimaru's body when Itachi sealed him, so he may still be able to come back through them.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.157.112.148 (talk) 18:41, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orochimaru Article 

message: Could we make seperate paragraphs for the Info on the character and the events in the plot for the character please. It's very difficult sometimes to find the full plot (The character has).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.123.249.135 (talk) 22:26, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Info. and Plot Info 

message: in the latest chapter, Tobi is shown to be able to use space/time ninjutsu. and kakashi even said it was even better then the Fourth's. i think we should put that in Tobi's info.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.214.76.123 (talk) 16:32, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tobi's space,time ninjutsu 

message: shouldn't itachi be put on the former members list now  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.216.112.137 (talk) 22:16, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Since we do not know whether or not he's really dead, or if Sasuke will spare him at the last second and go for the true instigator of the clan's death, Madara, we cannot say that.  Wikipedia is not a crystal ball and should not be treated as such. Sasuke9031 (talk) 23:55, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

text: Don't assume he died, that is speculating. Wait until the chapter comes out. σмgнgσмg(talk) 10:28, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I read the untranslated version of the chapter on saiyanisland; looks like he really is dead. If so, then there isn't any harm in waiting only another day for translated chapters to come out. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares (talk) 14:33, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Itachi is a former member. If I remember correctly, you guys put deidara on the former members list right when chapter 363 came out, which was mostly less than 1 chapter after he blew himself up. In addition, deidara actually blew himself up before, and no one brough that up to protest against his death. What's special about Itachi? TobiSamoht (talk) 15:41, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it had more to do with the circumstances of Deidra's death that Itachi being special. A person has a much better chance of surviving if the collapsed from battle than if they exploded. In short Deidra's death was much less questioanable. --76.69.168.148 (talk) 03:16, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

text: Considering as mentioned several times that Zetsu stated that he was dead that seems hightly unlikely. I think that Zetsu would have noticed the difference between Itachi being dead and simply out cold. --76.71.210.45 (talk) 21:53, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  itachi dead 

message: Will Kisame get a partner in the net chapter, or should that partnership info be changed to None, formerly Itachi Uchiha? Sasuke9031 (talk) 00:46, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: They didn't specify Itachi's death as of Ch. 394 (Sasuke's Victory) so it goes to say that he should remain an active member of Akatsuki until it is said "Itachi is dead" or something along those lines. Narchy (talk) 02:25, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

text: yes itachi is dead--The Last Uchiha 02:55, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

text: and if it turns out he isnt we can just change it anyway--The Last Uchiha 13:47, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kisame's partner 

message: My bad he is under former.  It looked like it because under it it said former agents.  By the way What is the differecnt between an agent and member  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Studmuffin60 (talk • contribs) 05:34, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: An agent works for the Akatsuki, while a member is in the Akatsuki. Jazz Band Member (talk) 15:23, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: why does it matter orochimaru's dead  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.124.115.245 (talk) 20:18, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recall 

message: Does somebody have a link or something to show these "discussions" where it was decided that Pain would be the spelling? Gune (talk) 00:27, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: See the little archive box in the top right corner? They're in there. Specifically, see Talk:Akatsuki (Naruto)/Archive 13#Pein or Pain?. Have a nice day. --erachima formerly tjstrf 00:36, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Also Talk:Akatsuki (Naruto)/Archive 13#Paeinful, 2007 also covers this. --76.71.211.225 (talk) 22:28, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pein/Pain 

message: For right now, I think the part about Itachi having died should be removed. He collapsed and certainly looks close to death, but until it's absolutely confirmed, it's just speculation. 24.131.8.253 (talk) 13:09, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It was never explicitly said that Itachi is dead.  He simply collapsed.  Until we get a more definitive confirmation, I say we just add a mention about him collapsing before he could take the eyes.60.52.123.220 (talk) 10:35, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

text: Itachi isnt dead, he just past out--The Last Uchiha 10:45, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Usually when you fall on the ground after being unable to grab something and start bleeding from every orifice on your face, you're done. Except for Bleach. Nobody dies in Bleach. 76.7.238.234 (talk) 18:03, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Most characters in Bleach are already dead. Dying twice is probably difficult. Just ask Son Goku! ~SnapperTo 18:08, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: As often as people on Wikipedia argue about speculation, I'd think this wouldn't be any different. Until the next chapter rolls around and Sasuke/Zetsu/God himself confirms that Itachi is done for, he should remain in the active roster. 24.131.8.253 (talk) 21:19, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I wouldn't call Sasuke "definitely weaker" than Itachi. Sasuke is still standing. Itachi is not.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.48.140.194 (talk) 13:18, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, because Tobi killed him.  Sasuke is so much weaker than Itachi that it's incomparable.  Remember how Itachi was clearly weakened since the fight started?
It was never explicitly said that Itachi is dead. He simply collapsed. Until we get a more definitive confirmation, I say we just add a mention about him collapsing before he could take the eyes.60.52.123.220 (talk) 10:35, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

text: I agree. If Itachi was dead, they probably would have said so. Jazz Band Member (talk) 11:17, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Just to point it out, but if you read the little words that look narrator-ish on the page where Itachi collapses, the words being used strongly suggest Itachi is dead. This doesn't count as absolute proof, though. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares (talk) 17:51, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

text: How is it speculation? His partner cleary stated that he was dead when he say the body and he later told Tobi the same thing in the next chapter. --76.69.164.193 (talk) 22:36, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Itachi's Death 

message: At the top of the article, it says Madara created Akatsuki and references "Page 5 of Volume 17, Chapter 143."  Two problems: 1) Chapter 143 is in Volume 16, not 17.  2) There is nothing on that page that says anything about Madara Uchiha.  I don't recall seeing anything about Madara creating Akatsuki.  If he did, there needs to be a real reference.Jdlordhelmet (talk) 22:14, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Chapter 386, page 14. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 22:15, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't see it there either, but now I do see it on page 11 of chapter 386.Jdlordhelmet (talk) 22:41, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Tobi did create the akatsuki or he is the current leader  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.124.115.245 (talk) 20:19, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Madara created Akatsuki - reference? 

message: We should put that they are deceased by the names of the Akatsuki that ARE dead.
It saves people the trouble of having to read there info.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.214.76.123 (talk) 00:35, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Add deceased to the dead members 

message: The page is semi-protected, so I can't fix any spelling or grammar mistakes I find, so I thought I'd start a section in the talk page for errors, which hopefully someone else can fix for me.
:The section on Tobi uses the word "hace", which does not exist; in context, it seems clear that the author meant "face".
:The article on Deidara contains "was as", which is invalid grammar.  My best guess for what it's supposed to say is "was working as".  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.234.28.100 (talk) 08:06, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spelling and Grammar