Talk:The Gateless Barrier

message: I have made a random koan generator from the text of this work:
Comments, concerns, suggestions are welcome.  Regards, WikiDao  ☯ 14:03, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Random Koan Generator 

message: Material for Wikipedia seems to be increasingly provided by academics. That's fine but academics should be constantly aware of the difference between writing for an academic audience and writing for an encyclopedia. Academics may wish for more esoteric information but they usually have access to texts that provide that far better than an article here. On the other hand, people searching encyclopedias are often approaching the subject for the first time and need only simple and straightforward descriptions. 
The paragraph on "Nomenclature" is excessive: the point requires only a referenced note at the bottom at best, or at most one paragraph in the body of the text. People arrive here to find out what the Gateless Gate is and possible where they might find  further information. The talk item "Title" above does not need to be mirrored in the article itself. However, in my view, even this is over the top. The phrase Gateless Gate is in common usage and "Gateless Gate" is what people will be using to locate information. The title of the article might be changed at some point that a majority of people agree on a change and that changed title is what people are seeking. --174.7.56.10 (talk) 03:21, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too pedantic in places: esp. nomenclature 

message: If anybody knows kanji, there is a photograph of the oldest known version of this koan written down here: http://blog.dorakuan.de/too-many-spokes.html
That post is also what I'm basing my statements on as well.
Since 2006, when an older translation made people discover that Keichu had been mistranslated (as having built 100 carts), there is still a mistranslation lurking somewhere: Did he make a wagon with 100 spokes, or does it say that he made two wheels with 50 spokes each? Also, is it the hub that is removed, or the axle? Is it the rim of the wheel, or the entire wheel?
The contents of this koan hinges on these things, as I believe that if it's about a 100 spoke wheel, where the hub and the rim of the wheel is removed, leaving only the spokes to turn, then the wheel is actually a symbolic dharma wheel of zen.
We need somebody who knows kanji to verify the text in the photo.
- Anon  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.255.233.254 (talk) 19:22, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Keichu's Wheel accurate translation 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on The Gateless Gate. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120103103636/http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/core9/phalsall/texts/taote-v3.html to http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/core9/phalsall/texts/taote-v3.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
Cheers. —cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 19:07, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Saying that “gate” is inaccurate is much too strong a claim, so I’ve removed that word. Personally I think the choice of “barrier” for this, an article in a general encyclopedia, was entirely unfortunate but I see the past discussion and so won’t interfere with the general outcome. But while the word “barrier” may well be more literal, that doesn’t necessarily make it correct and “gate” incorrect. Translations, especially of older writings such as the Mumonkan, has to consider more than just literal meaning. Connotation, symbolism, and other such subtextual artifacts can be extremely important, as can poetic aspects such as, here, alliteration. And of course the koan-esque internal contradiction hinted at in “Gateless gate” but not in “Gateless barrier” may well be something that translators choosing the former were explicitly going for. Translation across time like this is as much art as science, and I’d suggest we not be too quick to discard the work of the numerous attentive, skilled, and often professional minds who precede us, mostly mere amateurs. :-) 104.35.113.238 (talk) 07:03, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  “Gate” versus “Barrier” revisited