Talk:Wolf's Rain/Archive 1

message: Is the title of the show Wolf's Rain or Wolf's Reign.  I've alwas thought it was reign.  Reign would make more sence because the show deals a lot about when wolves ruled or reigned over the earth.  Wolf's Rain makes no sence.  I'm pretty sure there were never any wolves falling from the sky.  However, everyone one on Wikipedia seems to think it's Wolf's Rain.  So did somebpdy mistype it, is it a bad Japanese translation, or is the show actually called Wolf's Rain?
* The show is most definitely called Wolf's Rain. See the official website. --alsotop 12:40, August 30, 2005 (UTC)
* Without spoiling the show, rain plays a certain part in the story. --Anon
I really don't remember rain playing any role in the story, except maybe at the very end, and even that I'm not even sure about.  The theme of Paradise being ruled over by the wolves would suggest that the original translators messed up and somehow it was just never caught.  I wholly agree with the original poster that Wolf's Reign would make more sense.  Then again maybe its a double entendre, but I still don't see how the rain element makes sense. -CwH
Rain plays a very symbolic role in the story.  Notice that in this world it never rains except at the end.  The world is encased in snow or desert.  Wolf's Rain is a reference to the rebirth of the world.  When the world is reborn life will be allowed to return as the earth warms and the snow turns into rain.  The rain is a result of the wolves.  Thus the Wolf's Rain is the rebirth of the world.
*Ahem... Perhaps the reason everyone calls it Wolf's RAIN is because the official DVDs come with this title ? See dvd cover Renmiri 11:22, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wolf's Rain or Wolf's Reign 

message: Whats the official site? Can someone post it here? (anon)
: Done, some time ago. --Zetawoof 22:19, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Official sites? 

message: This page looks pretty complete to me.  I don't understand why this article needs to be expanded or needs an expert to look at it.  Can someone please get rid of those messages. (anon)
: Done, some time ago. --Zetawoof 22:19, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think it could use some expansion. I came here looking for some explanation of the ending, a plot summary, or anything like that, and didn't find it. :\ --Ryajinor 00:52, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree, it needs expansion, more character info, (ex. Jagara), locations, trivia maybe...Yllianos 06:39, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why Does it Need to be Expanded 

message: There is still a spoiler in Hige's character description (his collar).  In addition, there are many details of the setting (or links to new articles) which could be expanded.  For example-  a description of the Nobles.
A possible solution:  expand into "plot summary" or some sort of "development" section.  There is no inherent reason for the plot details to be so entangled with the characters.  I'm not quite sure what shape thise would take at the moment, or I'd write it right now. --24.4.246.13
: Spoiler removed. Going for a full article on some of the setting details would be overkill, but a better description of the setting within the page would be very nice. --Zetawoof 08:24, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Errr... this is an encyclopedia, not a message board. Why worry about the spoilers? If people want to read spoilerless commentary about the show they are planning to watch, they should look it up elsewhere! • Ekevu • ♥ • ★ 11:37, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I don't know about you, but I actually first read the article in an attempt to get some of the names straight, and had some plot points spoiled badly. In any case, a lot of the spoilery information wasn't even marked as such. Zetawoof 03:01, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spoilers! 

message: Wow this page has a lot of negative space. Maybe someone should add some more info under the wolves' biographies.  Also the humans only have about a sentence or two each, yet they played significant roles in the anime. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.50.179.67 (talk • contribs) .
: The space is, unfortunately, necessary - the sections are short enough that, if that space is left out, the images start butting into each other,  making things look even worse. Zetawoof(ζ) 06:03, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Negative space 

message: Err... The article looks great to me, possibly even a GA candidate. Any reason not to promote it to class A ? Renmiri 18:12, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's actually not even B-Class. (One measly single in-line citation.) I've demoted it to start. --Kunzite 20:04, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, is that's what's mising ? I'll dig up some more then! On the project I'm in most of our main pages are FA or GA... Renmiri 20:19, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree. This page tells nothing of the depth of the anime itself, and for anyone who watches it: it's a thousand-mile deeep anime just bleeding with symbolism. Only a plotline and some quite lackluster character descriptions, especially once you hit Hige and Toboe. To be honest, if done right and carefully, this show could have a page (and branching pages for perhaps the characters themselves, episodes and the origins of some of the parts of the anime, since it is based off of a true Native American legend) that are just as colorful and descriptive as Samurai Champloo and Naruto. I'd like to do some work on it and help out a bit, but time is not on my side though hopefully it will be sometime in the future. --CMCricket-unregistered 21:55, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

text: Because that would be WP:OR--SeizureDog 05:58, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why not Class A ? 

message: :The lead should have an explanation of what the show is actually about. As it stands, somebody who comes here with no prior knowledge won't be able to learn that without delving into the spoiler section. I'd do it, but I've never seen the series. Stilgar135 20:19, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Description of the show 

message: I noted some vandalism ("It's raining Wolves! aleluiah! it's rainig wolves!!"), and removed it. This was all I spotted, so if anyone see any more, please remove it. I don't have the time right now. DJLarZ 13:44, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: In infobox I found that exist 26 TV and 30 OVA episodes. It's, how I know, is wrong, becouse are only 4 OVA episodes. Extate 18:04, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's definitely wrong - whoever wrote that probably meant 26 TV episodes, and 30 in total. Fixed. Zetawoof(ζ) 21:02, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

text: No, there aren't.--SeizureDog 20:45, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  30 OVA episodes? 

message: Under the Edits section it says "In the beginning of episodes 25 and 26, there was some footage cut out that was very vital to the plot." You might want to expand that. --88wolfmaster 20:46, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Further explain 

message: Everyone's thoughts?:
Above is what it would look like. My reasoning is as follows: this section is meant to be an introduction into the story, not a plot summary or theories section.  Everyone's thoughts?--88wolfmaster 06:09, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Since no one seemed to object and the article itself called for a revision, i've made a start.--88wolfmaster 01:34, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed Change to Overview Section 

message: Ganryuu: All I did in the edit you reverted thrice ( was change the wording; the meaning remains the same. I didn't "remove" any information; I changed "must first seek out" to "are said to need". It's the same thing essentially. 128.113.146.138 18:45, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "must first seek out" is more descriptive--88wolfmaster 04:07, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

text: First of all, the Anime News Network profile page for this series contains far more details and is much more suited to this article rather than IMDB, as this is an article regarding an anime television series, not a movie. Please see WP:EL and refrain from adding unnecessary external links. Secondly, numbers can also been used while describing the series's outline, and this has been prevalent in the article for a long period. You did indeed add apostrophes to the word flower maiden, which also should not be used. Please also see Wikipedia:Civility and refrain from incivil comments. Thank you. ···巌流? · Talk to Ganryuu 20:38, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

text: The term "200" is also used in the Japanese interwiki article for Wolf's Rain, by the way. ···巌流? · Talk to Ganryuu 20:53, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  revert war 

message: :Image:Kiba0.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 22:07, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fair use rationale for Image:Kiba0.jpg 

message: This article really needs a plotline and not just a overview.
Different interpretations of the ending are also missing.
Ryuuk 22:36, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plotline of Wolf's Rain 

message: :Image:Hige.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 05:01, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fair use rationale for Image:Hige.jpg 

message: somewhere than in the end every single main character died. That is "extremely" rare in any show, even rarer in an anime. It is a spoiler though, so someone should put a spoiler warning before it.
...Including your entry in this talk page!  You just spoiled it for me!   Adding *SPOILER* to your headline -Dracker 18:19, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree it is sad. I still cry through all of the OVA episodes, even though I've watched it multiple times.  But it is a part of their stories and their reincarnations are also noted in the plot section.  The character descriptions need some rewriting, though, which I plan to do over the next two weeks along with a lot of article clean up.  If it helps any, the whole character section will probably be moved off to List of Wolf's Rain characters during the clean up/overhaul. AnmaFinotera (talk) 05:35, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting that the characters' deaths were unnecessary or badly handled in the series. I thought they were very well done and unbelievably powerful. (Keep telling yourself "It's not real. They're only drawings." Nope. That doesn't work. Poor little Toboe.) Even so, if casual visitors look at the character descriptions and see all the deaths they might decide there's no point watching the series and that'd be a shame. I guess what I'm saying here is that even if Wikipedia isn't a spoiler-free zone, it shouldn't be Spoiler City either. It needs to strike a balance. Lee M (talk) 05:52, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, I agree (Toboe really gets me every time).  Still, it is one unfortunately problem sometimes with a show like this with so many deaths. I've had a devil of a time working on Blood+ because I haven't seen the whole series but I've been spoiled to most of the ending because of editing the articles.  Still, while it may seem bad for new viewers to the series, it is in keeping with the precedence on other anime series that have deaths at the end.  I think moving it to a list of will help, as what will be left here will be a more general discussion, so someone who hasn't seen it would get a general idea without getting the full details. AnmaFinotera (talk) 06:00, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  It should be noted... *SPOILER* 

message: Wow...this article is in some serious need of attention. I'll be doing some major clean up over the next few days to get it inline with the main and the anime/manga manuals of style, clean up OR, etc.  If I make a change you disagree with, please bring it here rather than reverting to discuss.  I've started by cleaning up the odd formatting and removing the staff list (important folks covered by infobox and music section).  I'll also be giving some much needed attention to the List of episodes article as well.  AnmaFinotera (talk) 05:33, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clean up 

message: somewhere than in the end every single main character died. That is "extremely" rare in any show, even rarer in an anime. It is a spoiler though, so someone should put a spoiler warning before it.
...Including your entry in this talk page!  You just spoiled it for me!   Adding *SPOILER* to your headline -Dracker 18:19, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree it is sad. I still cry through all of the OVA episodes, even though I've watched it multiple times.  But it is a part of their stories and their reincarnations are also noted in the plot section.  The character descriptions need some rewriting, though, which I plan to do over the next two weeks along with a lot of article clean up.  If it helps any, the whole character section will probably be moved off to List of Wolf's Rain characters during the clean up/overhaul. AnmaFinotera (talk) 05:35, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting that the characters' deaths were unnecessary or badly handled in the series. I thought they were very well done and unbelievably powerful. (Keep telling yourself "It's not real. They're only drawings." Nope. That doesn't work. Poor little Toboe.) Even so, if casual visitors look at the character descriptions and see all the deaths they might decide there's no point watching the series and that'd be a shame. I guess what I'm saying here is that even if Wikipedia isn't a spoiler-free zone, it shouldn't be Spoiler City either. It needs to strike a balance. Lee M (talk) 05:52, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, I agree (Toboe really gets me every time).  Still, it is one unfortunately problem sometimes with a show like this with so many deaths. I've had a devil of a time working on Blood+ because I haven't seen the whole series but I've been spoiled to most of the ending because of editing the articles.  Still, while it may seem bad for new viewers to the series, it is in keeping with the precedence on other anime series that have deaths at the end.  I think moving it to a list of will help, as what will be left here will be a more general discussion, so someone who hasn't seen it would get a general idea without getting the full details. AnmaFinotera (talk) 06:00, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

text: They were reincarnated, however whether they are humans or still wolves living in society is never explained, so saying one or the other would only be speculation and personal opinion.AnmaFinotera (talk) 06:15, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's pretty clear that most of them are in human form - Tsume is riding a motorbike, for instance, whereas the series makes it clear that their human disguise doesn't give them real opposable thumbs or legs that could reach the pedals. There has been some fan speculation that Kiba might still be a wolf, though. Lee M (talk) 02:57, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The series doesn't make that clear at all. Its presumed, but no one in the series ever says "can't do that because I'm really a wolf" or anything like that.  The ending has no voice over or remarks, so any interpretations regarding the ending are all speculation. AnmaFinotera (talk) 03:17, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it's pretty clear that the wolves' human disguise is just an illusion, and they can't do anything that real wolves can't do (Except talk, and that's probably an illusion as well, like some kind of telepathy - in some episodes the wolves are heard talking while in wolf form, but their mouths aren't moving). They certainly can't drive or use firearms, and when it looks as if they're using their hands to hold things they're actually using their jaws. Sometimes it's a bit difficult to see how this works, unless they also project the illusion that what they're carrying isn't where it really is. In one episode the wolf-dog Blue tells the human Cher "I'll leave the driving to you", which seems like a pretty solid confirmation that a wolf can't drive. In episode 1 Tsume tells one of the human thieves he's leading "don't touch me", presumably because if the guy touches him he's going to feel fur and not leather. The wolves can also jump a lot higher than humans, which looks a bit odd when they're disguised. But in the ending, Toboe can pick up a cat in his arms and Tsume can ride a motorbike. Kiba's the only one who isn't seen doing anything unambiguously requiring human limbs. As for the lack of narration, maybe we're meant to work it out for ourselves? Well, I've reached my own conclusion at any rate. Lee M (talk) 11:55, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly, all your own conclusions.  Blue's statement can mean that SHE can't drive, after all she's lived as a dog all of her life and only just recently learned she was a wolf.  That doesn't claim that ALL wolves can't drive.  Tsume telling a human not to touch me does not indicate fear of them feeling fur and not leather, only his own dislike of humans and no need to be aided by them.  None of the other wolves ever shows any issues with being touched by humans, and the many soldiers who were touched by wolves noted they had bite marks but did NOT claim "OMG, I felt fur" or anything like that. The whole wolves or human at the end is something that is indeed open to interpretation, but Wikipedia articles are not here for us to present (or really even discuss) our theories regarding what the ending means or whether wolves can or can't do things that require human hands. We are here to provide verifiable information pulled from reliable sources, not personal opinion and supposition.AnmaFinotera (talk) 12:17, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I do think you protest too much, but I guess we're just going to have to agree to differ. Lee M (talk) 12:49, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

text: If you think it would make the article more informative to at least mention the scenes in the finale that appear to show that the wolves are now humans, then I direct your attention to Wikipedia:Ignore all rules. (I don't remember the cat thing myself, but it sounds like a pretty clear callback to his accidentally killing the bird when he tried to pick it up.) --DocumentN (talk) 20:39, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

text: Yes...but that still doesn't negate the fact that its never said "we can do X activity that humans can do." Tsume wields a knife, and he is clearly shown using his fangs without any sign of the knife. Several times they are seen holding food in their "hands" and eating with their mouths, while at other times they rip off and eat like a wolf or dog would.  And, if I'm not mistaken, in the episode with the town of wolves that were selling themselves as dogs, Zali shoot a man's hand while making a deal. The truth is, the series never explains how far the "illusion" goes and if the wolves are limited to the same physical capabilities as real-world wolves, or if they can somehow manipulate objects to further the illusion. It would have been great if that whole aspect had been better explored, but it wasn't, and it is not our place to draw our own conclusions and insert our suppositions about anything, only provide relevant, verifiable information from reliable sources. AnmaFinotera (talk) 05:15, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  It should be noted... *SPOILER* 

message: Chapter means a section in a printed work.  Grope means to fondle someone in a sexual way.  So, why is "grope" more accurate than "chapter"?  Astronaut (talk) 00:15, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Grope is what they are called in the manga, and as the note in the section says "grope" is a reference to a Japanese phrase for arriving somewhere after enduring hardships.  Hence it being used in the article.  With most manga, they are called chapters. However, as with Wolf's Rain, they are sometimes called something else, such as in Kare Kano where the Chapters are are called Acts, or they aren't numbered but instead given individual titles such as in Love Mode and Imadoki.  To be the most true to the material, we list them using the official English term and/or name (when there is one), or the Japanese one when there isn't.  Hope that helps. If I could find a site giving the kanji names, I'd add that along with the kanji for grope to make it clearer that it is a Japanese term, but so far no luck.AnmaFinotera (talk) 02:09, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I really should read it more carefully and check out the references before I assume the worst and "correct" what I assume is some low level vandalism.  For the second time in 24 hrs, I stand corrected.  Astronaut (talk) 07:13, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: *grin* no problem.  It is a rather unfortunately spelling :) AnmaFinotera (talk) 07:34, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Manga "gropes" 

message: Where are the OVAs? --24.74.36.191 (talk) 10:57, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Farix, normally I'd agree, but his question actually did point out an embarrasingly glaring error in the article...I totally forgot to list the region 1 release.  Anon user, I've expanded the article some and will work on filling that missing information, but to answer your question, for the Region 1 release, the OVAs were released as the seventh volume of the series by Bandai, and treated as part of the series.  They are also in all of the complete collections, as episodes 26-30.  They were aired in the US as part of Wolf's Rain run (though the four re-cap episodes were not), however they were not aired in Japan (of course). See List of Wolf's Rain episodes for the airdates. AnmaFinotera (talk) 17:04, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually episodes 27-30 - episode 26 was the last regular broadcast episode. In Britain the OVA episodes were broadcast on Rapture TV, but not in the later broadcast by AnimeCentral. Lee M (talk) 04:33, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

text:  I would have signed in earlier, but I have a policy against signing into anything while connected to a public wireless hot spot with no security. I didn't know they had done any OVAs till I had read about them in the opening paragraph of this article. I read the entire article and some of the pages linked to it. I then checked some retailers like RightStuf, and by the time I posted on this talk page, I thought the OVAs were a hoax or just someone's wishfull thinking since there has been plenty of animes that just leave you hanging. --MahaPanta (talk) 18:47, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry about that. Hopefully its a little clearer.  I'm still working on the episode list, but it will note the OVAs as well and the full DVD release info. Part of the reason its hard to tell with retailers because no one outside of Japan seems to have marked them as OVA at all, but instead included them as part of the series regular episodes. AnmaFinotera (talk) 18:54, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  "no one outside of Japan seems to have marked them as OVA at all, but instead included them as part of the series regular episodes." That really should be noted because I thought I was being ripped off since my copy doesn't mention that the last episodes are the OVA. The reason I think this is so important to know is because it would be like thinking the last 15 pages are missing of your favorite book/manga because the publisher typed the wrong page count in the book's description. This happened to be with a graphic novel. --MahaPanta (talk) 20:58, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  OVA 

message: I read somewhere this is a Russian folk story, being Russian and making it the focus of all my studies I just want to know if anyone has some proof that is/isn't the case?
Thanks!--67.185.245.221 (talk) 19:19, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Never heard anything about it, and never seen anyone try to say it was. If it is, there is little to no proof available, at least not in English. Might have to check some Japanese sites. AnmaFinotera (talk) 19:48, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I am going to sleuth this because it sure would be neat if it was, now I have to know! Worst case scenario I will have to find out this summer when I am there. I guess that isn't exactly wiki-quality standards but at least I will know heh. It seems likely since on many sites it's alternative title is given in Russian, which doesn't seem ordinary for anime, also read it was shown in Russia. The part I read was a review of it said like "This classic Russian tale told through Japanese anime..." or something, and someone else reviewed it as a sort dark and depressing story method typical of Russian folklore (his words).--67.185.245.221 (talk) 20:04, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Russian Story? 

message: Greetings!
I just posted an extended (improved) plot summery for the page.
I included all the citation needed as well.
Hope you approve.69.212.254.162 (talk) 10:23, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It has been reverted, yet again. As already noted the other times you have tried this, the plot summary is already quite sufficient and your summary contains a glut of personal interpretation (aka WP:OR that has no place here. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 13:59, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Improved Plot Summery