Talk:Soda inermis

message: Just a note to explain some changes I've made. I added some text to indicate the importance of this plant as the original source of "soda ash," and the origin of the name sodium for one of the chemical elements. I substituted a photo of Salsola soda growing in its habitat in the taxonomy box, and moved the good photo of the harvested vegetable into the body of the article. I liked the discussion of cultivation and of culinary use, and collected this material into a separate section.EAS 02:25, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reorganized article to include material on soda ash 

message: I've quoted the highly technical botanical description from "Flora of North America." The quote is a bit lengthier than I would like for copyright reasons. Editing to make this description more readable, and less of a direct quote, would be very desirable.EAS 05:13, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Botanical Description 

message: Here's a speculation that needs researching. The advantages of plant-derived soda ash for both glassmaking and for soapmaking derive from the relatively high concentration of sodium carbonate over potassium carbonate. This suggests that the sodium concentration (overall) in the tissues of Salsola soda and some other saltworts can be much larger than the potassium concentration; for simplicity, let's guess it's 10:1. This despite the fact that potassium is essential to plant growth, and sodium is toxic. Further, my understanding is that there are specific biochemical processes in the roots of plants to bring in potassium, but that sodium slips in either passively (by direct diffusion) or accidentally (by occasionally fooling the potassium pathway). So, overall, it seems that these saltworts must have the ability to live in soils with very low ratios of potassium to sodium ions. It would be interesting to know this ratio (1000:1?), and to compare it with the ratio for glycophytes (which must have been studied).EAS 21:06, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Speculations on sodium sequestration 

message: ===McCray Book===
The website http://www.lifeinitaly.com/murano/murano-history-2.asp indicates that Salsola soda was a source of Levant soda ash; it gives as a reference: McCray, W. Patrick (1999). Glassmaking in Renaissance Venice: The Fragile Craft (Ashgate Publishing (September 1999)). ISBN: 0754600505.EAS 07:32, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Historical information about sources of soda ash 

message: The website http://www.lifeinitaly.com/murano/murano-history-2.asp indicates that Salsola soda was a source of Levant soda ash; it gives as a reference: McCray, W. Patrick (1999). Glassmaking in Renaissance Venice: The Fragile Craft (Ashgate Publishing (September 1999)). ISBN: 0754600505.EAS 07:32, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: McCray Book

message: Here is a section describing Salsola soda from http://docsouth.unc.edu/imls/porcher/porcher.html .
(title page) Resources of the Southern Fields and Forests, Medical, Economical, and Agricultural. Being also a Medical Botany of the Confederate States; with Practical Information on the Useful Properties of the Trees, Plants, and Shrubs
Porcher, Francis Peyre, Surgeon P. A. C. S.
xxv, 601 p., ill.
CHARLESTON: STEAM-POWER PRESS OF EVANS & COGSWELL, No. 3 Broad Street.
1863.
Call number 3041 Conf. (Rare Book Collection, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill)
Page 133:
Salsola soda. Barilla plant. I would particularly advise the planting in the Confederate States of this plant (cultivated so largely in Spain, Sicily, and Sardinia), on account of its great value in the ready manufacture of crude soda--which is now supplanting, on account of its cheapness, the use of potash in the manufacture of soap. Beside, soda gives a hard soap. According to the analysis of Uŕe, "good barilla contains twenty per cent. of real alkali, associated with muriates and sulphates of lime, soda," etc. Caustic lyes made from it are used in the finishing process of hard soap manufacture.
The Salsola kali, L. Saltwort. S. Caroliniana of Walt. It grows in Georgia, and northward; and I have little doubt is rich in soda, and may be made of great use to us in the production of this most important product.
The barillas, Ure says, "always contain a small proportion of potash, to which their peculiar value, in making a less brittle or more plastic hard soap than the fictitious sodas, may, with great probability, be ascribed."
I will give the method of preparing soda from the Salsola: "Of manufactured soda, the variety most anciently known is barilla, the incinerated ash of the Salsola soda. This plant is cultivated with great care by the Spaniards, especially in the vicinity of Alicant. The seed is sown in light, low soils, which are embanked toward the sea-shore, and furnished with sluices for admitting an occasional overflow of salt water. When the plants are ripe, the crop is cut down and dried; the seeds are rubbed out, and preserved; the rest of the plant is burned in rude furnaces, at a temperature just sufficient to cause the ashes to enter into a state of semifusion, so as to concrete on cooling into cellular masses, moderately compact," etc. "Another mode of manufacturing crude soda is by burning sea-weed into kelp."
EAS 07:33, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Porcher Book

message: Clow, Archibald and Clow, Nan L. (1952). Chemical Revolution, (Ayer Co Pub, June 1952). ISBN: 0836919092 .
Excerpt from p. 66: "Crude alkali (barilla) was made by burning Salsola soda, particularly on the eastern shores of Spain where it was cultivated in the huerta of Murthia.1"
EAS 07:51, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Clow Book

message: "A Catalogue of Such Foreign Plants as Are Worthy of Being Encouraged in the American Colonies, for the Purposes of Medicine, Agriculture, and Commerce," Transactions of the American Philosophical Society, Vol. 1. (Jan. 1, 1769 - Jan. 1, 1771), pp. 255-266. http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0065-9746%2817690101%2F17710101%291%3A1%3C255%3AACOSFP%3E2.0.CO%3B2-3 
This "catalogue" notes Salsola soda's use in the production of barilla (soda ash); see p. 256. The catalogue is actually a reprinting of a pamphlet from John Ellis, FRS.EAS 22:51, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: American Philosophical Society

message: Good Italian website showing (with photos) the preparation of barba di frate as a hot vegetable: http://www.coquinaria.it/archivio/fotogrammi/agretti/testo.html EAS 17:12, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Culinary uses 

message: Good photos! Will include web-addresses in "external links" of article. Copyright status for inclusion of photos in Wikipedia? http://sophy.u-3mrs.fr/photohtm/ZI5832.HTM http://sophy.u-3mrs.fr/photohtm/ZI1379.HTM EAS 19:12, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Miscellaneous websites referring to Salsola soda 

message: Salsola soda and some other halophytes are being researched as "biodesalinating" companion plants. In addition to the reference in the main article, see , which discusses use of Suaeda salsa as a companion plant.EAS 18:47, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Biodesalinating Companion Plants 

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