Talk:X Japan

message: Hi, I'm your GA Reviewer.  I can see this article's been at WP:GAN for over two weeks now.  Must be that backlog, I've got one tied up myself in there.  Anyway, I'm going to look over the article and tell you what I think.
===General Overview===
The prose looks really good, and I'd say you've met criterion 1 from the article.  I have some sourcing issues, though.  I'll list the issues in a checklist under this general overview.  The article is broad in its coverage, neutral, and stable, meeting criteria 3, 4, and 5 all in that way.  I've got some issues with 6, but we'll address that below.
===Issues===
For organizational purposes, I'm going to make a quick checklist of things that need to be fixed before I can pass the article:
*The 1993-1997 section needs more sources.  A large part of the first paragraph is unsourced.
*There's an unsourced paragraph in the 1982-1992 section.  That paragraph needs sources.
*Can you source the statement about X Japan forming while the two members were in high school?
*I would be careful about using an IMDb reference, many people consider it an unreliable source.
*The rest of the sources look good, but all the sources from jrockrevolution.com don't link me to any information about what is being cited.  This needs to be fixed.
*I don't think you've got a legitimate claim of fair use for the four music samples.  There needs to be context within the article that justifies each individual music sample.  My recommendation is this: create a Musical Style section with text and sources, and use the samples (as few as possible) to show the musical style.  As it is, you don't have any justification in the article for these samples.
Given these issues, I've decided to put this article on hold for a week so the issues can be resolved.  When you are finished, please feel free to contact me on my talk page and I will take another look.  If you have questions or comments, you can contact me at my talk page.  Thanks. Red Phoenix flame of life...protector of all... 16:06, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That might just work. I'm in the middle of fixing all the verifiability issues and once I'm done, ask Red Phoenix about that option. The samples are down for now, but I have backups and will see to re-uploading them, if they are deleted in the meantime. – Cyrus XIII (talk) 14:54, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

text: I'd say the WP:V and WP:NFC related issues you listed earlier have by and large been resolved. I have added a to-do list above, in order to facilitate future improvements, so if you have any ideas for the article beyond the GA review, your two cents would be appreciated. – Cyrus XIII (talk) 10:23, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you guys need a Musical Style section to meet criteria 3a of the good article criteria.  I know you guys have been talking about it, and if you need more time today, I'll extend the hold for a couple more days.  But yep, It looks like the WP:V issues have been taken care of, at least.  I'll take another look at the images and tell you about any WP:NFC issues I find. Red Phoenix flame of life...protector of all... 14:56, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Since you consider the style section necessary for GA level already, an extension of the hold would be nice, yes. Shall we say next Wednesday? – Cyrus XIII (talk) 15:14, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds good, I'll extend the hold. Red Phoenix flame of life...protector of all... 15:41, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

text: For personal reasons I have to delay the assessment until tomorrow, sorry but I've been busy in real life. Red Phoenix flame of life...protector of all... 22:21, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

text: Congrats, guys, GA passed. Red Phoenix flame of life...protector of all... 05:36, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks a lot. – Cyrus XIII (talk) 08:55, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA Review 

message: For organizational purposes, I'm going to make a quick checklist of things that need to be fixed before I can pass the article:
*The 1993-1997 section needs more sources.  A large part of the first paragraph is unsourced.
*There's an unsourced paragraph in the 1982-1992 section.  That paragraph needs sources.
*Can you source the statement about X Japan forming while the two members were in high school?
*I would be careful about using an IMDb reference, many people consider it an unreliable source.
*The rest of the sources look good, but all the sources from jrockrevolution.com don't link me to any information about what is being cited.  This needs to be fixed.
*I don't think you've got a legitimate claim of fair use for the four music samples.  There needs to be context within the article that justifies each individual music sample.  My recommendation is this: create a Musical Style section with text and sources, and use the samples (as few as possible) to show the musical style.  As it is, you don't have any justification in the article for these samples.
Given these issues, I've decided to put this article on hold for a week so the issues can be resolved.  When you are finished, please feel free to contact me on my talk page and I will take another look.  If you have questions or comments, you can contact me at my talk page.  Thanks. Red Phoenix flame of life...protector of all... 16:06, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Issues

message: I suggest putting the sound samples in the body of the article, alongside the relevant text. This makes the samples more informative and strengthens the fair use rationale. Tuf-Kat (talk) 01:24, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That might just work. I'm in the middle of fixing all the verifiability issues and once I'm done, ask Red Phoenix about that option. The samples are down for now, but I have backups and will see to re-uploading them, if they are deleted in the meantime. – Cyrus XIII (talk) 14:54, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Sound samples

message: I'll take another look tomorrow when I've got time, unless you guys need more time. Red Phoenix flame of life...protector of all... 02:48, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd say the WP:V and WP:NFC related issues you listed earlier have by and large been resolved. I have added a to-do list above, in order to facilitate future improvements, so if you have any ideas for the article beyond the GA review, your two cents would be appreciated. – Cyrus XIII (talk) 10:23, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you guys need a Musical Style section to meet criteria 3a of the good article criteria.  I know you guys have been talking about it, and if you need more time today, I'll extend the hold for a couple more days.  But yep, It looks like the WP:V issues have been taken care of, at least.  I'll take another look at the images and tell you about any WP:NFC issues I find. Red Phoenix flame of life...protector of all... 14:56, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Since you consider the style section necessary for GA level already, an extension of the hold would be nice, yes. Shall we say next Wednesday? – Cyrus XIII (talk) 15:14, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds good, I'll extend the hold. Red Phoenix flame of life...protector of all... 15:41, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

text: For personal reasons I have to delay the assessment until tomorrow, sorry but I've been busy in real life. Red Phoenix flame of life...protector of all... 22:21, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA Hold Review 

message: This article looks so much better, but one more thing needs to be done before I can pass it as a GA.  In the Musical Style section, someone needs to at least mention both songs used as samples in the prose.  One was mentioned but the other wasn't.  After this is done, contact me on my talk page and I'll be happy to pass the article. Red Phoenix flame of life...protector of all... 15:40, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Congrats, guys, GA passed. Red Phoenix flame of life...protector of all... 05:36, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks a lot. – Cyrus XIII (talk) 08:55, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: One More Thing

message: X Japan Korea Tour has been cancelled. Main reason lack of ticket sells. Saturday date 900 tickets sold, Sunday date 800 ticket sold.
Full capacity of Olympic concert stadium is 20,000 ( full house). Only Heavy Metal band that sold full house Olmypic concert stadium
has been Metallica, Oasis, Ozzy Ozbourne, Linkin Park. Greater Seoul population of 20 million. X Japan ticket sells hasn't really
been popular for political and historical reasons. Future X Japan won't be touring Korea. Korean X Japan fans buy a ticket and fly to
Tokyo.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kp-korea (talk • contribs) 06:49, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I must agree. While it is always nice to have free images for an article, the relevance of this particular one is tangential at best. – Cyrus XIII (talk) 07:16, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  X Japan image of fans? 

message: A debate which is often taking place here is over the validity of the the pre-1987 members in context to the article. It's clear that satisfying both sides of the debate is not a particularly easy thing to do within this article, but I propose that this is where we create a breakout article or section to cover the fairly large amount of ground in the bands pre-1987 history. Articles such as Guns N' Roses have applied a similar idea to good effect, and perhaps it is time that we do the same here - else this debate is going to continue to arise in the future and potentially, as it has done before on several occasions, disrupt the quality of the article with poor edits and edit wars.
As often topics of discussion like this are sadly ignored by some of the most persistent offenders in regard to this issue I am going to give a period of several weeks for people to air their views. If there is no objection or discussion about this topic I am going to go ahead and create the new article myself regardless, so be warned - if you intend to disrupt the creation of this breakout article at a later date without having first aired your views here I will be enlisting the support of an Administrator as I have no intention of wasting my time with disruptive users who refuse to discuss and work with each other in situations like this.
--Cerise soldier (talk) 16:23, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Why only former members as an article? there should be a member history or a list of members that extends on the topic further than the main article can like you said. 137.124.9.20 (talk) 22:16, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, definitely - the only problem is that the opinions of the more stringent editors of the article will no doubt cause friction in whatever breakout section which we try to implement. As can be shown by this talk page, there have been a very different set attempts to justify the removal of information regarding the older band members and the early band history - everything from discrediting the existing references to claiming the information has a lack relevance to the article. This kind of behaviour when placed in context to the chronology of events comes across as being inherently un-objective and merely a set of attempts to disguise an opinion by using Wikipedia guidelines to contest the article content. I'm hoping that we can satisfy both our and their opinions in making this breakout article, as otherwise we could see the article plunged into another unstable state of flux due to edit wars and unconstructive behaviour. --Cerise soldier (talk) 14:23, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Prior to the completion of the proposed probably is 'wiser' to first complete the current members articles, ( correct errors, find someone musically educated, in the case of 'Yoshiki' to find - read(translate, or to discuss with fans) his autobiography. Their articles should be(!) worth and respected as bands itself. ) In more than twenty years of career probably has more to do even more to write, as a group and individually. Perhaps someone good/neutral, with vision, close to the information, pictures should work on this article, in the end to discuss about future events. Don't forget this is 'The Free Encyclopedia'--Shurin (talk) 20:03, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposing a new article: Former Members of X Japan 

message: No mention of English mangling in the main article? Can anyone watch this and take them seriously?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MilQiVBWxQ4  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.91.136.242 (talk) 15:25, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  This isn't a real band, is it? 

message: After editing the infobox to follow the guidelines (see Template:Infobox musical artist# past_members), it was asserted that all former members besides Taiji Sawada and Hideto "hide" Matsumoto should not be included due to them being members of X and not X Japan. If this difference is to be accepted as accurate in the infobox, it should also be pointed out in the members section, otherwise there is a contradiction on the page. Burbridge92 (talk) 11:17, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Same as above, that is simply false. The band changed their name to X Japan after Taiji left. No distinction should be made between X and X Japan, the band is the same, they just changed their name. Xfansd (talk) 15:31, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I was merely stating that if a distinction is to made in one part of the page it should be made everywhere else on the page, but agreed. Burbridge92 (talk) 16:48, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  X and X Japan 

message: To whom it may interest, there is a discussion regarding Wikipedia's name capitalization policies, particularly (but not exclusively) as they apply to Japanese musicians with names in all caps, which began here  and has progressed to here .  There has been a request for comments at the latter, so I have posted this here as I suspect there are editors reading this who may have an opinion on the issue.  Cheers. Ibanez100 (talk) 02:12, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussion about Wikipedia's policies regarding the capitalization of individuals' names 

message: Hi there. Following this dispute, I have fully protected the article for three days. It's good to see that discussion is taking place, but I would urge everyone involved not to edit the contentious part of the page while discussion is under way - that undermines the point of discussion. I suggest this issue is taken to the dispute resolution noticeboard where uninvolved mediators can help to get this resolved. ItsZippy (talk • contributions) 20:16, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Page protected

message: ??????????????????? what happened? Was agreed to let the beggining be as " X Japan is a japanese ROCK band" why is changed again to Heavy metal band?  Ladyslime (talk) 18:10, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  12 May 2012 

message: I have removed the recently added timeline depicting when each member was in the group and what position they played for the following reasons:
:1. It used specific (and in some instances obviously incorrect) dates for each member that are not given in any reliable source; such as claiming Pata joined on April 1, 1987.
:2. It made unverifiable claims about who played lead and/or rhythm guitar when there is no way to determine who played what back in those early days. 
Do not add it back until such claims can be reliably sourced. Xfansd (talk) 23:45, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: To be fair, those seem like minor referencing issues, and not a major reason to remove a useful portion of the article. It's not possible to specify "ballpark" dates in a timeline. If the exact date is not available, an estimate, although not stated directly in the text (which would then require referencing) is reasonable to approximate in order to make the timeline as useful as possible. (I did not create this timeline.) The issues with the timeline you stated are actually caused mainly by the timeline template, since we cannot specify two members as both "Guitarist", you cannot have two members with the same role in the timeline template. Hence making assumptions for lead and rhythm must have been done instead. Vortiene (talk) 21:32, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm the one who added the timeline. I understand your claims, I should have cited the pages I used. I'm adding the timeline back, with the citations added. Fudobrain (talk) 12:09, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Blogs are not reliable references. Vortiene (talk) 15:32, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed the blogs. I think that the timeline is a useful aspect of the page, for displaying who was in the band when. Even if we don't have exact dates, we still know who was in the band before who, and based on various bootleg footage of concerts from their early days, combined with known tour dates, we can make estimates on the time period when a certain member joined/left. As for roles of lead guitar/rhythm guitar, X Japan has almost always had a tendency of mixing the roles up. Pata played leads just as much as Hide did. All in all, judging by what you said in reply to Xfansd, I don't think the timeline should have been removed in the first place. Xfansd seems obsessed with having exact dates and verifying lead/rhythm roles, which I think is completely unnecessary as a requirement for having a timeline that helps showcase how the lineup of X Japan changed over the years. Fudobrain (talk) 19:13, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

text: Why does the member text for Toshi say (1982–1997, 2007–2018, 2023-present), with a gap between 2018 and 2023? His timeline is the same as Yoshiki's, from 1982 to 1997 and from 2007 to 2023. Clarification would be great. 2A02:8070:487:5860:4473:624C:6DE:8555 (talk) 20:14, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Member timeline 

message: Two sources here are tagged as being unreliable. Could one of the regular editors look into it, maybe finding replacement sources. It would be a shame to delist the article for this issue. AIRcorn (talk) 11:18, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unreliable sources 

message: Before the 2008 concerts, X Japan only played in the Tokyo Dome 13 times. These were:
1991.08.23 <Tokyo Dome> Violence In Jealousy Tour, 1992.01.05 <Tokyo Dome 3 Days>, 1992.01.06 <Tokyo Dome 3 Days>, 1992.01.07 <Tokyo Dome 3 Days>,
1993.12.30 <Tokyo Dome Returns> X Japan Returns,
1993.12.31 <Tokyo Dome Returns> X Japan Returns,
1994.12.30 <Tokyo Dome> Tokyo Dome 2 Days,
1994.12.31 <Tokyo Dome> Tokyo Dome 2 Days,
1995.12.30 <Tokyo Dome 2 Days> Dahlia Tour 1995-1996,
1995.12.31 <Tokyo Dome 2 Days> Dahlia Tour 1995-1996,
1996.12.30 <Tokyo Dome> Dahlia Tour FINAL 1996,
1996.12.31 <Tokyo Dome> Dahlia Tour FINAL 1996,
1997.12.31 <Tokyo Dome> The Last Live  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.209.250.56 (talk) 07:02, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number of times they sell out the Tokyo Dome 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on X Japan. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I nominated the article on We Are X for featured article status a little while ago but I've not got many replies to it. If anyone wants to help out please feel free to do so. ISD (talk) 19:36, 14 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  We Are X featured article nomination 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 14 external links on X Japan. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.extasyrecords.co.jp/eng/company.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.oricon.co.jp/search/result.php?kbn=ja&types=rnk&year=1991&month=7&week=3&submit5.x=20&submit5.y=7
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.oricon.co.jp/search/result.php?kbn=ja&types=rnk&year=1993&month=9&week=1&submit5.x=20&submit5.y=7
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.oricon.co.jp/search/result.php?kbn=ja&types=rnk&year=1996&month=11&week=3&submit5.x=20&submit5.y=7
*Added archive https://archive.is/20120604145309/http://www.kissfaq.com/discography/kma.html to http://www.kissfaq.com/discography/kma.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.tokyograph.com/news/id-1917
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.tokyograph.com/news/id-2834
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.tokyograph.com/news/id-3116
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.tokyograph.com/news/id-3490
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.bravewords.com/news/100431
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://movies.jp.msn.com/news/article.aspx?articleid=355188
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.sanspo.com/geino/news/100820/gnj1008200508012-n1.htm
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.ampmagazine.com/10682/x-japans-yoshiki-to-auction-off-his-crystal-piano-to-aid-japanese-quake-tsunami-victims/
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.mtviggy.com/articles/metal-legend-yoshiki-of-x-japan-gets-his-ovation-at-the-grammys/
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Although hide and Taiji have died, I think that it is not an old member because it is enrolled as a member on the official website 匿名希望利用者さん (talk) 02:30, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  hide and Taiji are former members? 

message: The band member timeline graphic shows a bunch of extraneous diagonal lines. Does anyone know how to fix this?
matt kane's brain (talk) 20:31, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Timeline  

message: I think the X Japan genre description is due for an update. "Heavy metal" as the main descriptive genre is too limiting and doesn't reflect the majority of their pre- and post-hiatus work. (We should still keep metal in there as a historical reference, just not as the predominant genre.)
Current description: X Japan are a Japanese heavy metal band from Chiba, formed in 1982 by drummer Yoshiki and lead vocalist Toshi. Predominantly a power/speed metal band with heavy symphonic elements, they later gravitated towards a progressive sound with an emphasis on ballads.
Proposed revision: X Japan is a Japanese rock band from Chiba, formed in 1982 by drummer Yoshiki and lead vocalist Toshi. Starting as a predominantly power/speed metal band with heavy symphonic elements, they later gravitated towards a progressive rock sound with an emphasis on ballads.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by GimmeChoco44 (talk • contribs) 22:47, 6 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  X Japan genre update 

message: Now that "associated acts" has been replaced by "spinoffs", I think some of these groups need to be removed from this section of the infobox.
Ex: Luna Sea is not a "spinoff" based on the current definition of "Groups which have spun off from this group. For example, sub-units."
GimmeChoco44 (talk) 13:30, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: If we are to treat "spinoffs" as a slightly more specific version of the old "associated acts" then I agree. I believe the old parameter also had a rule where an act needed at least two members in common to be listed (this article never followed that tho), so that would remove all entries except The Last Rockstars. Unfortunately the people who removed the associated acts parameter did/do not provide an explanation as to what qualifies something as a spinoff (aside from "sub-units" which is only a term used with Asian idol groups). S.K.I.N. was formed before Sugizo was a member of X for example, so that doesn't seem to qualify with the two member rule. I also really dislike the term "spinoff" as calling all subsequent bands that include members of X Japan a "spinoff of X Japan" comes off as derogatory in my opinion. So for those reasons, I personally would like to see all acts removed until the title of the parameter is changed. Xfansd (talk) 22:05, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed on all points. Let's give this a little more to see if any other editors want to chime in. GimmeChoco44 (talk) 04:33, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Following up -- removing spinoffs from infobox.--GimmeChoco44 (talk) 01:05, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spinoffs