Talk:Uruk-hai

message: There are actually suggestions that Uruk-hai was just a general name for all large orcs, including a new breed of black orcs bred by Sauron, and Saruman orc-men, which have nothing in common except being larger, stronger etc. Ausir 12:16, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Quite correct. Uruk-hai simply means 'Orc folk', and the Uruks referred to the more traditional Orcs (goblins) as snaga (slave). Compare Olog-hai -- the "new and improved" trolls. Anárion 12:22, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

text: Quibble: yrch – uttered by a wood-elf – is clearly not Quenya which did not use the vowel /y/. —Tamfang (talk) 00:37, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

text: Uruks as a crossbreed of Orcs and Goblin-men (err... Orc-men?) are just Jackson's interpretation of the origin of Uruks. In the books Saruman did not "invent" them, but Uruks appear much earlier in the Tale of Years, conquering Ithilien. Personally I believe that the very fact Tolkien described some men as "goblin-men" is enough evidence that the Uruk-hai cannot have been simply Orc-human crossbreeds: Tolkien always equated the two terms goblins and Orcs. Consider the aftermath of the raid of the Rohirrim of Éomer on Saruman's troupe of Uruks that had captured Merry and Pippin: I believe the one point "goblin" is used in LotR (aside from Hobbittalk) occurs, when the Three Companions see a "goblin-head" on a spear. This was certainly an Uruk of Saruman, and yet called a goblin — therefore Uruks are Goblins, and Goblin-men already described "orkish men" or possible "mannish orcs". No matter how this comment is further interpreted, fact is that the only evidence we have about Uruks is that they were far more powerful than the "classic" Orcs, and did not mind the Sun much. Anárion 19:30, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)

text: On the same DVD they consistently refer to the Rohirrim as the Rohan… so even though evidently very passionate about the subject, they did not have their facts quite right. Consider also the Jackson claim that Sauron had no phyiscal form during the War of the Ring despite evidence that he did.Anárion 19:32, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Origins of Uruk-hai

message: I disagree with the translation of Uruk-Hai as meaning Orc Folk. Here are my reasons:
The word uruk means Orc, while uruk-hai is only used to refer to the larger breed of orcs. If Uruk-hai ment Orc folk it would refer to all orcs and not just the larger breeds.
This fits much better with the other -Hai ending word we have, Olog-Hai. Olog-Hai refers to a new and improved breed of Olog, Trolls. 
This leads me to believe that the -Hai suffix actually has an augmentative meaning that means "better" or "improved".
*No, etymolygists have quite a bit of evidence on this. It's closer to "Orc-breed" as in "Orc-thoroughbred". Plus they were often called Uruk for short as opposed to normal Orcs. Regardless, it doesn't mean just "improved".---Ricimer
:: Sorry, but the translation of Uruk-hai as "Orc-folk" has been confirmed with the publication of Tolkien's linguistic commentary on the Lord of the Rings in Parma Eldalamberon 17. 96.228.21.56 07:58, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uruk-Hai doesn't mean Orc Folk 

message: Uruks are the same as Uruk-hai, and Uruks are not Half-Orcs bread by Saruman.
Some of this has been mentioned before, but I thought I would present it all here. This all relates to the works of Tolkien, not the interpretation from Peter Jackson.
* Tolkien wrote the following in Appendix F to TLotR ('Orcs and the Black Speech'): "Related [to the word 'Orc'], no doubt, was the word uruk of the Black Speech, though this was applied as a rule only to the great soldier-orcs that at this time issued from Mordor and Isengard. The lesser kind were called, especially by the Uruk-hai, snaga 'slave'." Why would Tolkien first talk about the soldier-orcs (named as uruks) in contrast to the lesser orcs, and then suddenly relate what a third kind of orc (the Uruk-hai) would call the lesser kind? It seems clear that the two terms mean the same.
* This confusion has probably arisen because all of the times when Uruks are mentioned they are refered to as coming from Mordor (probably by chance), while the Uruk-hai is mentioned mostly in Book III Chapter 3 'The Uruk-hai', where of course they come from Isengard. In actuality the word 'Uruk(s)' (as opposed to 'Uruk-hai') is only mentioned in the narrative of TLotR three times! But in Appendix F to TLotR (quoted above), it says that Uruks issued from Mordor and Isengard.
* The word 'Uruk-hai', when not refering to the specific band of Orcs of the White Hand that captured Merry and Pippin, appear only one place! In Book VI Chapter 2 a soldier orc is talking about what raided the Tower of Cirith Ungol, according to rumour, and he mentions "a pack of rebel Uruk-hai"! This is of course in Mordor, so he must be talking about a pack of Mordor orcs.
* The fourth proof of my point can be found in the Index to Unfinished Tales. There is stated: "Uruks: Anglecized form of Uruk-hai of the Black Speech; a race of Orcs of great size and strength" Related to this, it's clear that all through the narrative of TLofR, the only time the term Uruk-hai is used, is when the Orcs are talking.
As for the commom notion that the Uruk-hai were bred by Saruman, this is purely based on the presumption that the Uruk-hai where different from the Uruks. As mentioned above, Tolkien wrote that the Uruks "issued from Mordor and Isengard." Whether this means that Saruman bred Uruks or just employed Mordor Uruks, isn't clear. Treebeard's statement was that Saruman "has been doing something" to the Orcs, and that Saruman's Orcs can endure the Sun. The only thing we can deduce from Treebeard's account, is that Saruman was changing his Orcs, probably by breeding, possibly creating a new 'strain' of Uruks from Mordor Uruks. But it's clear that the Uruks came originally from Mordor.
In Unfinished Tales, note 7 to 'The Palantíri', Tolkien (J.R.R.) writes this about Saruman in Isengard: "The use, and possibly special breeding, of Orcs was kept secret, and cannot have begun much before 2990 at earliest."
So the conclusion is that, while 'Uruk-hai' and 'Uruk' has the same meaning, there might have been differences in Saruman's Uruks as compared to the Mordor Uruks. It's not clear what these differences are. (Treebeard's deduction that Saruman is purely responsible for the new kind of Orcs needn't be correct; quite probably he had never seen an Uruk before Saruman's Uruks.)
:The Tolkien Encyclopedia refers to the Uruks from Mordor as Uruk-hai. In its entry on Half-Orcs, it states that Saruman bread these as mixes between Dunlendings and Orcs, and between Dunlendings and Uruk-hai. Quoted here: http://forums.lotro.turbine.com/archive/index.php/t-1519.html. I'm not sure about the reputability of this source.
:The Encyclopedia of Arda also refers to 'Uruk' as a short form of 'Uruk-hai'.
I think the main article in Wikipedia should be updated to reflect this. It's true there is some debate over this topic, and the article should probably mention that there is, but it's clear what is the case from the text in TLotR and Unfinished Tales.
It should also be mentioned that Uruk-hai means Orc-folk. See the Wikipedia entry on Olog-hai.
193.71.196.238 21:43, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Without concrete references we can't say for sure that he took "uruk" from the Sumerian language/mythology (though it's likely, but you never know). It's speculation and original research without references. Uthanc 05:48, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uruks are the same as Uruk-hai 

message: I understand a lot of the names Tolkien had used were based off of Norse mythology, but is it a possibility that Uruk(-hai) was a name borrowed from the ancient Sumerian city? I have not been able to find an answer to this. If this is true, I think it should be mentioned. JanderVK
:So whole Sumerian civilization is very orcish as it is. 88.190.223.227 (talk) 17:22, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: No evidence for a Sumerian connection. Resemblance of words does not by itself imply influence. -- Elphion (talk) 20:48, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Unless you will check this. 88.190.223.227 (talk) 10:06, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I searched that page for 'uruk', 'Erech', 'orc', and 'Sumer' and came up with no evidence. 'Uruk' is not even mentioned, and for the rest, well, random unsupported speculation on fan threads does not constitute evidence. -- Elphion (talk) 02:25, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Search for 'Sumerian' instead. 88.190.223.227 (talk) 16:08, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that would be included in a search for 'Sumer'. -- Elphion (talk) 18:08, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sumer 

message: Is it worth making an article about the Berserkers out of the film?--Andy mci 22:03, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not unless this was a Tolkien-centred wiki. Uthanc 09:45, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Berserkers

message: The Uruk-hai are simple crossbreeds of human and orc, equivalent to a corrupted version of half-elves. There are two subspecies:
* Morgul Uruk-hai, bred by Morgoth and Sauron, similar to orcs but much larger and stronger.
* White Hand Uruk-hai, bred by Saruman, largely identical to the former, save with an added resistance to sunlight. --Zenoseiya 22:53, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Truth of the Uruk-hai 

message: ...the ancient Sumerian city Uruk? 71.113.38.68 03:01, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Uruk was build by GORKAMORKA WAAAGH! power, which used human slaves, so Sumerian civilization is hybrid of orcish and human cultures. See http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/143131-neandertals-dem-deres-orcs.html 88.190.223.227 (talk) 17:49, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Could Tolkien have lent the word Uruk-hai from the Uriankhai, an ethnic Mongolian group wherefrom also the Tuvans originate? --Rides (talk) 18:57, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

text: As far as I can tell there is no evidence anywhere about where Tolkien got the name from. I've seen this etymology proposed even in academic papers, but nowhere does a citation lead back to Tolkien himself. It makes no more sense to say that the Uruk-hai were inspired by the Sumerian city of Uruk than to say Batman got his name from the eponymous city in the East of Turkey. The internal etymology, however, is obvious: Uruk is Black Speech for Sindarin Yrch. Solri (talk) 17:09, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Any relation to... 

message: I think it is inappropriate to say that the movies implied that Saruman created Uruk-hai from tortured elves because in the scene where he is instructing Lurtz on their history, he was simply describing how orcs in general first came into being, while the Uruk-hai obviously evolved later through much cross-breeding with humans and through other dark arts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.4.90.225 (talk) 22:37, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Tortured elves as Uruk-hai

message: I like the Ultramarine symbol on the shoulder in the bottomright corner of :File:Uruk-hai statue.jpg, it's nice.  But in all seriousness, is there another picture that can be used, one without a Warhammer 40k shoulder in it?  Or at least can the image be cropped? -
SudoGhost™ 01:47, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Not sure if I have the right term for the image caption, is it an Uruk-hai, or should it be an Uruk singular? Carl Sixsmith (talk) 06:20, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture