Talk:Scooter Libby/Archive 1

message: Wasn't John Dean a white house staff member who was indicted for acts while in office? He was convicted of obstruction of justice regarding Watergate.
::No. Dean was fired by Nixon before he was charged. Nixon's other aides who got charged quit before their fates. - Hoshie |  08:27, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: John Dean?

message: Who in Grant's administration was in Libby's position?  This is not mentioned in all the "first in 135 years" hoopla.
:Great question. Until it's answered, I pulled that sentence into a separate paragraph and attributed it to NBC, which apparently was the source for the quote.  Tempshill 22:28, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It was Orville Babcock, who didn't have an article.  I restored the line to the intro, and everyone is welcomed to research Mr. Babcock and add to the stubby article.  Tempshill 23:36, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Correction, he has an article over at Orville E. Babcock; I created a redirect and am fixing the link in this article.  Tempshill 23:43, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Ulysses S. Grant

message: It is generally accepted that Lewis Libby played a significant role in the outing of Valerie Plame. This has some speculating about the role of Vice President Cheney in the leak.
Aren't these weasel terms? We need to determine:
#Who accepts it ("generally" is vague)
#What is significant (needs context)
#Who is speculating (it can't be the Wikipedia editor)
glocks out 22:57, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Weasel and peacock terms 

message: "Libby was the first White House staff member in 130 years to be indicted for acts in office" <-- It seems like there are not enough qualifiers in this statement. It seems like you need to make it 
*high level staff, 
*indicted while still in office, 
*indicted for something done while in ofice. --JWSchmidt 17:59, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: In a related note, the statement Many other officials have been indicted in the interim, but always after they had already stepped down is useful, but begs for an actual figure.  Andt would significantly improve the context of the article if someone could (citing sources, of course) say something like "At least one White House official from each administration since that of William Henry Harrison has been indicted for crimes allegedly committed in office," or whatever the actual fact is.  Tempshill 02:31, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  the first? 

message: Just wondering what this bit in the trivia section relates to libby:
:Bush administration illegal payments to columnists including Armstrong Williams, Maggie Gallagher and Michael McManus.
And also, were the payments illegal? I just thought they were improper since there was never any investigation or calls for one.Viper Daimao 21:28, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Trivia

message: Trivia - Removed biased material I would personally call trash; Wikipedia is not a forum for airing personal opinions
I agreed with the edit, but the summary was too good not to post. Eliot 01:07, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Schizophrenic edit of the day 

message: The opening paragraph gives the name Irving and the trivia gives him Irve glocks out 21:13, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems to be "Irve". john k 22:53, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Brian Williams and Al Franken have both called him Irving in interviews recently. Jacqui ★ 07:15, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Irving or Irve? 

message: I feel like this article ought to be at either I. Lewis Libby or Scooter Libby.  I have rarely seen him referred to as just "Lewis Libby" (without the initial). john k 23:34, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  location 

message: Does anyone else have a problem with his unsourced, truncated quotes and analysis? Valerie Plame was a CIA agent in 20 years. Blowing her cover could be harmfull for all her contacts in the past as covert agent on WMD's questions. The blowing could make it more difficult for other CIA agents in the future to find trustfull cooperation with persons all over the world.
 	
 	The Presidents father, not only former president but also former Director of CIA, said once, at a speech, when the CIA headquarter in Langley, Virgina was rededicated, as the George Bush Center for Intelligence, about those, would expose clandestine CIA officers(as Valerie Plame): "I have nothing but contempt and anger for those, who betray the trust by exposing the name of our sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious of traitors....". Doesnt really seem like this belongs here or anywhere. Viper Daimao 20:33, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I tend to agree. More appropriate for Plamegate if anything. · Katefan0(scribble) 20:42, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Additions by 83.73.149.207 

message: Has anyone else read the stories about this novel, which Libby apparently wrote ten years ago? Somebody should add a section about this truly weird book under trivia. Bestiality with bears? Painting pubic hair? This guy has a strange imagination... 208.27.111.121 16:06, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: ''The Apprentice''

message: Maybe it's just written weird, but there is a pointed effort to make it clear that Libby isn't indicted on revealing a covert's name, only about lying. This is true, but it's weird to me that this article has to specifically say what Lewis Libby was not indicted for. Might as well add he wasn't indicted for smuggling plumbs across the border. I'm pretty sure it's just how the sentence is phrased though. Maybe the article should be written in such a way as to protend truth without having to tell what isn't truth. I don't know. Thoughts? glocks out 00:08, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Makes sense the way it is to me. He wasn't being investigated for smuggling plumbs. Option 15:55, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe it should be prefixed as such then. There simply isn't context for it. glocks out 20:54, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I originally wrote the paragraph in question, far down in the article in the section on details of the indictment.  I thought it was important to point out; the investigation was about the possible crime of revealing the name, and he ended up not charged with that.  He might be in the future.  My original paragraph was improved immensely, by the way, by whoever added the line about kicking sand in the umpire's face.  Tempshill 22:31, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Indictment and resignation 

message: I think this has really gotten out of hand here.  Most of it either belongs in the Plame article or the Plame affair article.  I am referring to all the stuff from Some legal observers, especially conservtive ones, have argued that Libby never should have been indicted for leaking former CIA officer Valerie Plame's name, on the grounds that her ostensible cover company.... until the (now) end of this section Without a leak of covered, secret status there would be no leak crime and possibly no justification for the investigation from which the Libby charges arose.  It reads like apologetics.  It's way overkill.  Perhaps it belongs even in a new article called "Brewster-Jennings" (which would already be longer than many articles of other better known companies).  But all this speculation about what undercover firm Plame might have worked for (almost none of which has any sources) is rank speculation, and two degrees removed from Libby.  Further, the first sentence I just quoted is misleading, because he wasn't "indicted for leaking....".  Further, the last sentence I just quoted "possibly no justification for the investigation" is also misleading, because it leaves out that the CIA itself requested the investigation.  And most everything in between is just as flawed -- either by being misleading, unsourced speculation, or tangential.  (Who cares that a particular zip codes has a lot of millionaires?)  I suggest the entire section be removed (or at least moved to some other article) -- with apologies to whoever put all that work into it.  Thoughts? -- Sholom 13:39, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  debates about Plame's covert status 

message: Perhaps his recent usage of crutches could go in the trivia section? Along with an explination if anyone has it. 24.31.29.171 08:54, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I added one. Hopefully there weren't any objections. --24.31.29.171 08:47, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Crutches 

message: From an NPR transcript:  MIKE PESCA: So here we have I. Lewis Libby, the most powerful adviser to the second-most powerful man in the world and no one knows his actual name, until now. Libby was born in New Haven, Connecticut, and attended Yale there. I called the New Haven library and talked to a librarian named Brad Bullis. Bullis is a member of the National Guard who spent time fighting in Afghanistan, is not one to shrink from a challenge. Bullis called the librarian at Libby's alma mater.
Mr. BRAD BULLIS (Librarian): And she invited me to come over and take a look at some yearbooks, so I looked at the Yale Banner for 1972 and we found that his name is Irve--I-R-V-E--Lewis Libby Jr.
From the Washington Post: Several aspects of Libby are subject to varied interpretations, or at the very least, casual mystery. Libby is loath to disclose -- even to close friends -- what the "I" stands for in his name. Matalin credits USA Today with "breaking" the story that Libby's first name is "Irv" (though other publications had reported "Irving" and public databases list him as "Irve").
· Katefan0(scribble) 17:46, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The reason this isn't considered definitive is... it's a yearbook. People sometimes use nicknames in their yearbooks. 'Irve' could be a nickname for 'Irving'. I really don't know, but I don't think that NPR's find definitively settles it. --CBDunkerson 18:07, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, though most sources seem to indicate it's either Irv or Irve as opposed to Irving. Anyway, I think there's enough ambiguity that we shouldn't be listing his first name in the top at all; leave it I and then explain the (somewhat farcical) "controversy" down later. · Katefan0(scribble) 18:18, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with using I. only. That seems to be what Libby goes by anyway. glocks out 20:51, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Irve/Irving 

message: This name comes from Conspiracy Planet. The article doesn't even give a reason for it. It simply states, "Scooter Libby aka Irving Lewis Liebowitz" without offering a reason for this name. This is the first place this name appeared, and has no evidence to support it. Unless evidence does come foward abotu this name, it should not be used. glocks out 20:10, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. · Katefan0(scribble) 22:55, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Irving Lewis Liebowitz 

message: From his days as Defense Secretary during the Gulf War, Cheney was intensely interested in biological warfare. Libby, who worked for Cheney as an under secretary from 1990 to '92, shares his boss's obsession with biowar. Known in the Administration as "germ boy," Libby was obsessed with pre-emptively vaccinating the entire population against smallpox. (The fixation even extended to Libby's 1996 novel, The Apprentice, about a smallpox epidemic.)  -- User:RyanFreisling @ 17:43, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Germ Boy

message: I removed a lot of content largely due to style and what looks like editorializing and speculation.  I think there's valuable information here, though, so I'm posted it here and maybe it can be worked in better: Kevin Baastalk 22:27, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is a copy of this material. , and therefore a copyyvio unless the author has released the material. -Will Beback 22:41, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  recent new content in investigation section 

message: what is this pov fluff quote by Mary Matalin doing in the lead paragraph? i'll be removing it to the talk page, from where it can be added back into a more appropriate place (and context) in the article, if required. Doldrums 06:44, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  remove quote from lead paragraph 

message: Why hasn't anyone decrypted his first name beginning with an I? Shandristhe azylean 12:37, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There's a discussion of it under "Trivia". -Will Beback 01:12, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "I." - what's his name? 

message: I removed this because it no longer makes any sense.  If someone familiar with the details can twist it into shape then feel free to re-add.
:In July of 2005, Time magazine reporter Matthew Cooper revealed that Libby and Karl Rove were the first to disclose (Joseph C. Wilson's wife had 'offered up' Wilson's name for the mission to Niger and that she was a CIA officer without mentioning her name). 
Tempshill 17:24, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mangled sentence removed