Talk:List of gothic rock artists/Archive 1

message: should be on here. in fact, there is no J section
:Nope.  They set the precedent for the style, but they aren't a goth rock band proper.  WesleyDodds 03:51, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Joy Divison

message: Why was she on this list? She is a futurepop artist. I took the liberty of removing her. and making sure she is on the futurepop list.
Justyn1337 16:18, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ayria

message: There wiki page says there goth metal, but there not on the list, so are they or are they not goth?
'They're' Gothic Metal, not Gothic Rock, as you just said. J Milburn 16:59, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Lacuna Coil

message: why arent they on the list?
what isnt goth about them?
:The fact that while they take a lot visually from goth as a subculture, they have nothing in common with goth as a music form.  WesleyDodds 11:05, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Marilyn Manson

message: Its getting rather tiresome having to remove Heavy Metal bands from the list all the time. For people adding to the list, Gothic rock is a form of Post-Punk music... it is not a subgenre of heavy metal, so please stop adding metal bands such as Cradle of Filth, Trivium, Nightwish, etc to the list. - Deathrocker 21:46, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: in any case, i think the word ROCK should give the gothic metal band fans some clue to the differences between the music they listen to (it's f***ing METAL, you idiots) and the music gothic rock bands did/do. or at least i hoped it would.IleanaCosanziana 02:42, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Heavy Metal

message: Feel free to add more. But if I see Joy Division on this I am adding Gang of Four and Chameleons UK to be a bastard. Justyn1337 19:12, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added "J" Section 

message: There is not a single source for this article. Ideally, every single band mentioned would have a source, or be removed. This should be worked on. J Milburn 12:24, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I'm sure we could find reliable citations for some of these artists to indicate they are a part of Gothic rock. - BalthCat 06:10, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Are there any rules that say that lists are exempt from requiring sources? Many of these bands do not even have a mention of Gothic rock on their own article. J Milburn 22:44, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, but until some one wants to go look up the citations, adding  after them all would be tedious, and removing them ultimately unhelpful.  - BalthCat 01:35, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

text: I think that citations are especially important for those italicised due to importance. - BalthCat 05:35, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

text: You could do what I do with many other lists. Just check if the Wikipedia article mentions gothic rock. You can then provide a source on the article itself, then the band will unarguably belong here. No fuss, no muss, and keeps the list clean. --Dane ~nya 14:04, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources 

message: Oops, I was in the process of listening to their music on MySpace and was planning to rewrite that edit summary as some bands who do belong don't seem to have articles. (ie: Big Electric Cat) The MySpace itself says "electro / goth / trip-hop" which pretty much means it isn't Gothic rock and so that is the real reason they should be excluded from this list.  (They aren't bad though...) - BalthCat 01:24, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cindergarden 

message: They do not belong here at all. There is no way that they are gothic rock. J Milburn 15:36, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Seconded. - BalthCat 22:22, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  black tape for a blue girl 

message: The Cruxshadows should be on this list. They are part of Goth Rock. Don't be picky and say "oh, but there electrogoth" and crap. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.113.182.77 (talk) 00:17, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Cruxshadows 

message: Somebody added both of these bands to the list and I removed them because on their Wiki pages they are described as metal bands. Since gothic rock is not metal I removed both of the mentioned bands from the list. Please do not add metal bands to the list, since they have nothing to do with gothic rock. Crescentia 20:29, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Semantic, trivial argument: while it's true goth has nothing to do really with heavy metal in terms of its origins and evolution, bands like the Cult did straddle the line between goth and heavy metal. WesleyDodds 01:30, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Cult contained, from the outset, members of various post-punk groups and evolved into a hard rock band with metal influences. Lordi, on the other hand, has no connection with post-punk, "positive punk" or gothic rock at all. Gothic rock bands have adopted elements of other genres and even shifted genres during their career, but that isn't a justification for adding any band with spooky or "dark" aesthetic elements to the list.--Halloween jack 20:46, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nightwish and Lordi and other metal bands are not gothic rock 

message: I've removed bands that have no article on Wikipedia. If a band is notable enough to be on Wikipedia, they should have a page be created, and if not, don't need to be listed. If we allow indiscriminate unverified bands to be listed here, it just screams "promotion!" and over a long period of time, will become purely a place for people to advertise... like some lists I've cleaned up... *shudder* horrible, horrible mess... --Dane ~nya 14:10, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please don't add red linked bands. If they're notable, they should have a page. --Dane ~nya 06:57, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, I'm currently listing the red linked bands in revision 111040400 for request for article creation, so we know if any added bands from there on in are spam, or truly notable. --Dane ~nya 09:41, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed red linked bands 

message: Cleaned the page of red links and added a few words at the top of the article to discourage any more. In the case of the two Polish ones I added yesterday (God's Bow and Dance on Glass), I did intend to do articles for them in the near future, so I'll put them back when I have. A1octopus 12:14, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed more red links 

message: This should not be a list of bands with articles on Wikipedia, as this is a self reference. Instead, it should be a list of notable gothic rock bands in general, although, I admit, removing redlinks would be advisable. Also, even if you are not going to provide references for the country of origin or the fact that a band is of this genre, there really should be references for the 'influential' bit- if the bands are influential, then someone will have written about that somewhere. J Milburn 21:26, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Before the red linked bands were removed it was a huge mess. People would add bands that didn't even have a webpage so it was impossible to find out if they were gothic rock or not. There has to be a standard. Also, in my experience of editing this page, if a band doesn't have a page in Wiki they most likely aren't even gothic rock in the first place. Most of the non linked bands that people add are metal.Crescentia 14:09, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Self reference and sources 

message: They are/were a synthpop band and not gothic rock. Gothic rock is guitar based music, which they are/were not. So, please stop adding them.Crescentia 19:55, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Red Flag are not a gothic rock band

message: Is the project gothic rock at all? I thought it was more of a symphonic "dark ambient" type of deal.
Today I put some more bands in the list,the is no J and i have a band called Judith is USA gothic band.
Don't delete Sabrina, this is not the 80's disco. It's a usa gothic band www.sabrinamusic.com
And if you want to check gothic bands then goto the sites of the best gothic recordlabels like ressurection records,grave news and nightbreed.
:I deleted all of your band inclusions for the following reasons- 1. Some of the bands did not have a Wiki link. To be included a band must have a substantial Wiki link. If it has no Wiki link it gets deleted because that keeps the list clean. The top of the article says that all entries need a good Wiki link. 2. Many of your entries were Wiki links of things other than bands. Two Witches was a Wiki link to a drawing of two witches rather than that of the band. 3. A few were not gothic rock.  Please be more careful the next time you add bands.Crescentia 22:56, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Sopor Aeternus