Talk:Ghost in the Shell (manga)/Archive 1

message: i can't seem to find alot of info on ghost in the shell manga 1.5 and 2. sucha s review or development. do you think we shoudl merge them?Bread Ninja (talk) 05:24, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Manga merge 

message: I've read almost the entire Manga (with the exception of the last chapter) just now. And it is pasicly not very interconnected cases. Much like the stand alone episodes of GitS SAC. The Puppeteer case is one chapter at the beginning and another near the end, where he "dies", with motoko being somewhat influenced by his "death" afterwards (cause she was connected). Maybe the big revelation cmoes in the final chapter, but the puppeteer is just one case so far. It should be changed.91.19.238.6 (talk) 10:20, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Not all cases are connected i agree, i have read all the chapters, the last one the puppeteer mentions one the events of a previous chapter that was seemingly not related. I think i'll see what i can do to fix it.Bread Ninja (talk) 20:41, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Manga synopsis false 

message: Its a little hard to keep the ghost in the shell manga separate from the series. I beliebe it would be best to merge it to the main article. Its hard to imagine the two can be separate. I think if they get merged, it will help with the notability issues. Though i also thinking about splitting the release info into "List of Ghost in the Shell chapters" which would mean taking all the refs i added into that one. What do you all think?Lucia Black (talk) 02:26, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: This is the project page for the List of Ghost in the Shell chapters if anyone would be willing to fix it or so, it would be great. Also just to show if the article did exist, it might help decide if it should or shouldn't be merged.Lucia Black (talk) 22:08, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm gonna be bold about it. If someone has an issue we can discuss it once it gets reverted.Lucia Black (talk) 20:26, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge to main article? 

message: I've begun replacing the content from Ghost in the Shell to this page. As this focuses solely on the manga, this may be at GA levels now... given a few tweaks and alterations. I'm cleaning up the source page to not be redundant. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 04:47, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Content merge 

message: publisher_other =  Dargaud, Glénat Feest comics Star Comics Sharp Point Publishing J.P.Fantastica
| publisher_other =  Planeta Agostini Glénat Egmont J.P.Fantastica
| publisher_other =  Planeta DeAgostini J.P.Fantastica
I can confirm JPF releases. --Niemti (talk) 14:26, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not showing up, may be wriiten elsewhere 

message: So, at WP:VG, a lot of the time we decide if a website if reliable or not by what it says on their "About Us" page.
# Do they have one at all?
# Do they have an editorial oversight policy?
# Do they have a formal staff? Is anyone actually paid, like they do it for a job/career?
# Do they have a stated vision/purpose etc?
# Have they been previously been used in Wikipedia articles at the GA or FA status?
Anyways, I see there's some discussion on this, but I think we need to focus on these aspects more than "Alexa Ranks" or personal anecdotes, which seem to get things off topic. I also feel we shouldn't blindly follow WP:ANIME's calls either, as some of them I checked were pretty much just a person or two saying they supported it; that's not the strongest consensus...
Anyways, I'm not really familiar with anime beyond it's overlap into video games, so I'm not sure yet, I just wanted to refocus the conversation a little... Sergecross73 msg me  14:49, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. While I have zero issues with using activeanime as a reliable source, per WP:UNDUE, we represent the views critiquing the work in the proportion they are held and given by the academic community of those who know that subject. Every person can have an opinion about anything, but we only care about and cover the experts opinions. I agree with Sergecross73's comment above to concentrate on the above aspects rather than "Alexa Ranks" or personal anecdotes, which seem to get things off-topic and the above discussion has been just trolling. The fact is that Niemti has been warned about misusing this talk page as a platform for his disruptive rants. Now, to get back on topic, there are a list of staffers according to activeanime's website. Rommel Salandanan is the site's founder and administrator (although there is a typo in "administrator" in their "About us" page). Holly Ellingwood is the head columnist and reviewer and there are four staff reviewers: Davey C. Jones, Sandra Scholes, Rachel Bentham, and Margaret Viera. I do not know if Activeanime has been previously used in Wikipedia articles at the GA or FA status. As for Comic Book Bin (), they have a publisher, 12 writers, a news editor, an editor, an editor-in-chief and managing editor. For Teenreads (), they have a founder and president. For their editorial staff, they have an editorial director, a contest coordinator, a senior writer, and an editorial director for anime and manga. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 21:31, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The fact is that you have been warned about obsessively following me around and misusing various talk pages as a platform for your mania. The fact is there were no "personal anecdotes" and no "just trolling". The fact is that you wrote "With that said, I am done. This is seriously a waste of time" but it was just as dishonest as it was every time when you falsely claimed that you quit (including repeatedly officially stating you're now going to "100% break off" when you were told to quit your shit). The fact is that you started commenting here only after I did (and just 4 hours later). The fact is that it's going on non-stop for over half year already and I'm seriously sick and tired of you constantly wikihounding me without end. The fact is that now I officially tell you to stop, cease, desist and abort, and to knock off, back off, refrain, keep away. --Niemti (talk) 22:33, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, please stop with your off-topic personal attacks and comment on content, not contributors. I am actually telling you that your posts contain very serious problems here with regards to civility and preventative measures will be taken if you continue with this confrontational attitude, so just focus on article improvements. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 23:26, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, please stop with your off-topic personal attacks towards me and comment on content, not contributors. I am actually telling you that your posts contain very serious problems here and preventative measures will be taken if you continue with this confrontational attitude. And this was seriously the last warning. Don't you try to follow and attack me even one more time. --Niemti (talk) 23:32, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Discuss your qualms with Sjones on his talk page or an appropriate notice board, this sort of arguing was the very thing I was trying to get away from with that section break, and doesn't belong on an article talk page anyways. Sergecross73 msg me  00:06, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Precisely. Let's just drop the stick and back slowly away from the dead horse's carcass, and stick to discussing article improvements. I do not wish to be abusive towards anyone myself, but I remained civil throughout. When I said "I am done. This is seriously a waste of time", I meant that I do not want to continue fighting  with others, as they are really a waste of time, and this type of arguing does not belong on an article talk page anyway. This section break is where I also wanted to try and get away from petty arguments. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 00:10, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: And, somehow, you failed to control yourself and to refrain from attacking me with "the above discussion has been just trolling. The fact is that Niemti has been warned about misusing this talk page as a platform for his disruptive rants." So, from now on, if you ever again follow me to attack just ONE more time, it will make it ever clear that we can't possibly coexist and preventative measures will be taken because I'm more than annoyed and just enough is enough. That is all. Don't respond to this. --Niemti (talk) 00:44, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Editorial oversight? 

message: Alright, so that went way off topic very quickly. Let's try this again. Sjones, please copy and paste your on-topic comments from above, removing any reference to Niemti. Niemti, do the same if there's anything on-topic to salvage from your comments above. Anything off topic will be removed instantly on the grounds of WP:NOTAFORUM. Sergecross73 msg me  01:52, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, then. Per WP:UNDUE, we represent the views critiquing the work in the proportion they are held and given by the academic community of those who know that subject. Every person can have an opinion about anything, but we only care about and cover the experts opinions. As such, we should simply concentrate on the concerns provided by Sergecross73. There are a list of staffers according to activeanime's official website. Rommel Salandanan is the site's founder and administrator (although there is a typo in "administrator" in their "About us" page). Holly Ellingwood is the head columnist and reviewer and there are four staff reviewers: Davey C. Jones, Sandra Scholes, Rachel Bentham, and Margaret Viera. However, I do not really know if Activeanime has been previously used in Wikipedia articles at the GA or FA status. As for Comic Book Bin, they have a publisher, 12 writers, a news editor, an editor, an editor-in-chief and managing editor. For Teenreads, they have a founder and president. For their editorial staff, they have an editorial director, a contest coordinator, a senior writer, and an editorial director for anime and manga. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 02:00, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Second attempt to refocus 

message: *  
*  
--Niemti (talk) 15:25, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Mike crandol was added in a while ago. Regardless, this seems like an unrelevant topic to cover.Lucia Black (talk) 15:27, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Lucia Black. This is also an irrelevant topic to cover. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 18:48, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: This "is also a relevant topic to cover" because I just removed it from external links. And stop being such a targeted contrarian. --Niemti (talk) 19:18, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  2 reviews formerly in external links 

message: I axed as much as I felt was necessary from the adaptions and the other mentions. This is about the original mangas and will probably be arrived at from the franchise page. It makes little sense to have SAC and Arise and Innocence even on this page, but the video game and film make more sense. I tried to keep it down to the bare minimum for now and refer back the franchise page because the material is just so difficult in sorting through it. I really want these works to have their own page and be in as much depth as required because these mangas are really important. Merging this page to the franchise page is only going to be bad when the franchise page grows and fills out properly. Right now it may not be ideal, but this page is necessary. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 01:39, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: But Ghost in the Shell should be the manga page. It should not be considered a "manga" page. If anything, we should relegate this article to be a simple list of the chapters and volume releases. It's not useful to have two separate articles on what are essentially the same topic. And I had people agreeing with the merge on multiple other pages. I still propose that this page be merged back with Ghost in the Shell.—Ryulong (琉竜) 02:32, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  First of all, GITS is a franchise page, it is not about JUST the manga. Like Star Wars is not about JUST the movies. This is why you split off. Final Fantasy is not about the first game, its about the franchise. If anything with a MMO in the works, three well known existing games, 3 TV series, two movies, and derivative novels and manga, a franchise page makes more sense for GITS. Making the GITS page about the manga is undue. Simple as that. I'm trying to resolve Lucia's SS issue with having the main page be the franchise and having the in detail content on its own pages. If you are in support of removing the manga from the Wikipedia by merging or making it one with the GITS main page then what's to say that other pages like SAC shouldn't be merged in? I'd say its balance in scope, detail and readability. It isn't eye pleasing, organizationally sound or reader friendly. That's why.ChrisGualtieri (talk) 03:03, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: You are the one who is demanding that the Ghost in the Shell article solely be a "franchise" page. There is no other manga series on this website that has so many articles dedicated to its original form. If we are going to have a page on the manga I'd rather it be on all of the print media that came out rather than just the first two novelas (and 1.5). And I find your "slippery slope" argument not convincing. Stand Alone Complex began its own series unto itself. Arise is doing the same. The films are understandably separate. What does not feel like it should be separate are the books released in Japan under the titles THE GHOST IN THE SHELL, MANMACHINE INTERFACE CONTROL PREFERENCES, and HUMAN-ERROR PROCESSOR, particularly how identical the two articles were and still are. If there's going to be a page just on the manga then it has to be on all of the manga released rather than just the three titles I listed. This page needs to have the Stand Alone Complex manga, the Tachikomatic Days manga, the Arise: Sleepless Eye manga, etc.—Ryulong (琉竜) 03:13, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Streamline 

message: Do not merge this again. I am moving back to everything as it was prior to the GA issue as the first BRD was supposed to be. Also WP:SIZE. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 23:29, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I've reverted this bold move. You do not have consensus for this change. Both Lucia Black and myself oppose the split of the two articles.—Ryulong (琉竜) 04:12, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Why are you even editing, Chris? You said it yourself we should make edits until DRN is resolved and at this point, mediation will be the ultimate card. You suddenly get these random outbursts of bold edits (at this point it's more about "persistent" edits) and disregard consensus. We brought this at DRN for a reason.Lucia Black (talk) 04:18, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: This is the second time this has happened to these pages, too, after you attempted to put the main article "under construction".—Ryulong (琉竜) 04:57, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Third time actually. Long before you took notice, he demerge the article without proper consensus (and attempted to use BRD against me since I boldly split them without consensus but that edit was over a month old).Lucia Black (talk) 05:03, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: And there are his actions at Talk:Dragon Ball and WT:MOS-AM. This whole concept of a "franchise" is really not helping anything. He's heralding Sailor Moon and Fullmetal Alchemist as paragons as to how "franchise articles" should be when they're just perfectly fine manga and anime articles. They discuss the manga and then have separate articles for the chapters and episodes. The only problem with Ghost in the Shell is that it has too many separate animated adaptations that are entirely unrelated to each other and per WP:MOS-AM and WP:SPLIT justify having separate articles for themselves. However there is nothing in any of the policies, not even WP:UNDUE or WP:SIZE that states that there needs to be an entirely separate article on the three graphic novels that comprise the original Ghost in the Shell, which is why this page was set up as it was after the merge that most of us agreed upon until Chris decided to go against the consensus again.—Ryulong (琉竜) 05:11, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  WP:SS for proper scope. If you cannot understand scope then might you look at Pokemon or Star Trek? The fact you recognize the problem of the adaptions is good, but as I noted, WP:NPOV is also about article content and the original manga is a distinct minority viewpoint when given the whole body of works. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 13:12, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Stop twisting WP:NPOV to your needs. It is about keeping an article neutral and not leaning to one point of view or the other. It is does not forbid having an article discuss a single neutral topic just because you feel it should be separated. Pokémon is a multimedia franchise that exists in too many forms to discuss on a single page. Star Trek started out as a TV series that spawned other TV series, films, a few languages, and a bunch of other crap. Ghost in the Shell is a manga that has only four adaptations all based on the original. Why the hell can't you accept that the Ghost in the Shell article should be about the manga, much like the Sailor Moon and FMA articles are set up, and then have various articles branching off from it? What is so god damn special about these three books that requires an entire separate article set up for them? You have yet to explain that. Everything is just FRANCHISE FRANCHISE FRANCHISE FRANCHISE coming from you.—Ryulong (琉竜) 13:31, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moved back