Talk:Kalamazoo, Michigan

message: Can anyone provide evidence that Justin Zellers  is in any way notable enough to be mentioned in the article? older≠wiser 02:23, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Who? Mackensen (talk) 01:29, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  He doesn't have his own article, whoever he is. -- MisterHand 01:44, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Justin Zellers 

message: Can anyone provide evidence that Justin Zellers  is in any way notable enough to be mentioned in the article? older≠wiser 02:23, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Who? Mackensen (talk) 01:29, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  He doesn't have his own article, whoever he is. -- MisterHand 01:44, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable people 

message: I question some of the explanations given for Kalamazoo's name origins.
# "negikanamazo" might be "negigo-namezow" (otter's under-tail) but it would never be "stones like otters" because the "stone" aspect of the word is not found in "negikanamazo."  The only specific stone that might be contained in the name would be Vermillion, but if so, the translation would have been "otter's vermillion-tail" or "vermillion-like otter" where the translator would have known the word for "vermillion" since it was a common word and would have translated as such.  The word for "stone" would be "sen" in Potawatomi.
#"kikalamezo" cannot mean "mirage" or "reflecting waters" in Potawatomi because the "reflect," "shine," "appear," or "water" aspects of the word do not exist in the word "kikalamezo."
#The explanation for "boiling pot" would not work in the language.  Though the word for a pot is "kik" in Potawatomi, the boiling liquid portion would be -gamezo and not -gayamezo / -ganamezo (which in Ojibwa, Ottawa and Potawatomi, the "l" have transitioned to either "n" or "y").  Even if reduplication was taken into consideration, the reduplication would have been -gayamezo (from -gaiamezo, not -galamezo).  Anyway, -gamezo is a combining form of "boil" and you would need a pre-verb to tell how the kettle boils.
The current Ojibwa/Ottawa name "Giikanaamozoog" in the Potawatomi spelling would be "Gikenamezok" (See Rhodes referenced on Ojibwe language page.)  However, this very most likely is a folk etymology that have become common usage today.
Though the Potawatomi have been associated with Kalamazoo, maybe the word Kalamazoo itself came from one of the Miami-Illini languages or from the Sauk language, thus causing the confusion to the meaning of the location.  Before the arrival of the Potawatomi pushing others westward and southward, Miami-Illini tribes and the Sac were living in that part of Michigan. CJLippert 06:12, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Please provide verifiable sources for any such information. What you point out is interesting, and perhaps quite true, but without refering to verifiable source it would be original research. Most of the other accounts of the origin do have some source (if a citation is not there, I'll have to check).  Even if thses sources may be ultimately mistaken, unless there is some other more credible verifiable source that directly addresses the issue of the etymology, I think all we can do is report what the sources say. older ≠ wiser 12:25, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  OK.  Well, I will reference myself, via Freelang Ojibwe Dictionary and the Potawatomi Language page.  Rhodes, Nichols & Nyholm, Baraga, Cuoq... as well as other Algonquian language recorders and linguists do note of pre-verbs and post-verbs, as well as the vowel syncope found in Eastern Ojibwa, Ottawa and Potawatomi.  CJLippert 16:09, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

text:  In addition, Verwyst's "Geographical Names in Wisconsin, Minnesota,and Michigan Having Chippewa Origin" gives the translation of Kalamazoo as "Corruption of kikanamoso (it smokes, or he is troubled with smoke e.g., in his wigwam), pr. kee-kah-nah-mo-zo, or kee-kau-nau-mo-zo" which seems to be the same word Rhodes provides as "Giikanaamozoog" to mean "be Smokey." CJLippert 16:16, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

text:  Another possibility is that the name may have come from "gikenimaazo" (Potawatomi spelling: "kenemazo") to mean "examine/notice/know-about something for oneself."  I have not seen any references giving this as a possibility, but linguistically speaking, this word would have been "kihkēlemáso" at one time... which still can suggest that the word's ultimate origin as being from the Miami-Illini tribes or from the Sac tribe. CJLippert 16:34, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name origin 

message: my father, who lived there in the '70's-'80's told me that marijuana is decriminalized in kalamazoo, meaning that you only get a very mild penalty. is this verifiable? Joeyramoney 01:47, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If true I've never heard such a thing, and I know enough stoners from there that I think I would have. Besides, any such law would conflict with federal law... Mackensen (talk) 02:19, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is also the law in Flint, which makes the possession of small quantities of marijuana one of the lowest offenses you can be caught for. --Criticalthinker 10:06, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  marijuana 

message: Recently I posted an external link to kalamazoo.ibegin.com. This is a new local search website that I believe is by far one of the best local search sites available for Kalamazoo. The link was removed and I was sent a warning from Chris Lawson asking me to not post inappropriate links on the page. Just wanted to clarify some things to Chris - I am in no way affiliated with the site and I have no stake in it whatsoever. It is a free site available to anyone and it offers "reviews" of local businesses which meets one of the "what should be linked to" criteria held by Wikipedia. Additionally, the site does not require registration for anyone to use. After looking at the mykalamazoo.com link I found it to be riddled with Google and Amazon ads, offers to purchase coupon books, and the ability to purchase advertising space, all of which could easily come across as someone trying to promote their site. I realize the site has decent info to offer, but it calls to question what's acceptable and what's not. Also the builtkalamazoo.com link is plagued with many dead links - so many that the site doesn't even function correctly. So I'm not asking for you to relist the site, just asking that you treat all links equally. I live in Kalamazoo and find a site like ibegin to be invaluable - nothing like it exists. Thanks for your time. Dolemite06 03:57, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for bringing this up here. Obviously, we have no way of knowing whether or not you're affiliated with the site ;) but if you were a spammer, I doubt you'd have bothered to explain yourself this thoroughly. MyKalamazoo probably ought to go, but Built Kalamazoo, despite its brokenness, probably ought to stay. And I don't have any problem keeping the iBegin link around now that you've explained the situation further. Feel free to re-add it.--chris.lawson 04:50, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I appreciate your response Chris, and I thank you for being open to my comments. Dolemite06 02:01, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  External Links 

message: The article presently states: "the village of Match-e-be narh-she-wish, was described as at the head of the "Kekalamazoo river" (this village became the present-day city)".  The headwaters of the Kalamazoo River are nowhere near Kalamazoo, but 50+ miles away in Hillsdale County. I haven't removed the text, as I don't have access to the cited source.  It may be that the source is using "head" in a different sense, and that village did become the present-day city.  Sagsaw 21:39, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That language appears in the 1821 Treaty of Chicago  and the 1827 Treaty of St. Joseph . The Royce map of Indian cessions in Michigan also clearly labels the location of Match-E-Be-Nash-She-Wish's village at the present location of Kalamazoo. As to why the location was described as being at the the head of the "Kekalamazoo river", I can't say. older ≠ wiser 22:05, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Headwaters of the Kalamazoo River

message: Bilbo's pizza also brews its own beer with four styles.  It's escaping me, but I'm sure there is a fifth place that sells its own beer as well.
:You might be thinking of Shakespeares.. which has had a couple of its own custom beers on tap, but they get them from some other brewery across state. Cbsteven 14:45, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Breweries

message: Given that a number of other articles contain information on the origins of the word "Kalamazoo," I propose relocating the Name Origin section to its own article.
Other articles which could link there include Kalamazoo River (which currently directs readers to the city's article for name history) and List of Michigan county name etymologies (which contains a vast oversimplification and could stand to link to somewhere with more information).
Any input?
Munion 23:08, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name Origin Move 

message: No mention of the Kalamazoo Kangaroos who use to play for the NPSL? Rypcord 21:44, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Kalamazoo Kangaroos added to the sports section Laatu (talk) 15:09, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kalamazoo Kangaroos? 

message: There isn't anything on the common practice of saying "From Here to Kalamazoo" or "I'm Going to Kalamazoo" (When a destination isn't known or doesn't want to be said) in New England? --169.244.32.130 16:53, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I suspect its omission may be because most of the regular contributors to this article are probably from Kalamazoo or Michigan generally, and so none of us have heard this New England saying. --Munion 09:43, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  From Here to Kalamazoo 

message: :Image:Seal of the Corporation of Kalamazoo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 09:15, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Seal of the Corporation of Kalamazoo.png

message: There are a lot of sites that show the lyrics to this song. But MOST of them say "I'm gonna send away, hoppin' on a plane" which obviously can't make sense cuz nobody would have used an airplane in Glenn Miller's day to go to Kalamazoo; also "away" doesn't fit. A couple of sites show different lyrics, which I think is correct after listening carefully to a Glenn Miller CD: "I'm gonna send a wire, 'HOPPIN' ON A FLYER, LEAVIN' TODAY'." The part I capitalized here would be the message in the (telegraph) wire which would be a very likely way for a guy to send a message to his gal in Michigan. The flyer would be an express train. I would suggest changing the referenced url to: (removed per WP:COPYRIGHT)
71.131.201.137 (talk) 23:23, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Reference to lyrics of "I've Got a Gal"

message: Isn't it worth mentioning, somewhere, that Kalamazoo is one of the few cities to have a unified Department of Public Safety?  It's a pretty unusual attribute.  If so, the mention should use similar wording to what the Sunnyvale reference uses.  Jokeboy (talk) 08:36, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've started an additional article for KDPS due to its notability as the largest public safety department in the nation  Kalamazoo Department of Public Safety ZacharyLassiter (talk) 21:58, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Public Safety

message: Isn't the first sentence inaccurate? ("Kalamazoo is the largest city in the southwest region of the U.S. state of Michigan.")  Grand Rapids is larger, and looking at a state map it's very much in the southwest region of Michigan. 99.0.64.206 (talk) 04:16, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The Grand Rapids, Michigan article says it's in west Michigan, not southwest. This is somewhat subjective. If you want to change it I won't argue. Rees11 (talk) 10:15, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I spent an hour thinking about it after I posted last night, and I've somewhat softened on it.  I've lived in Michigan most of my life and when I first read the opening sentence it struck me as incorrect.  But having lived in "Northern Lower" Michigan and "Mid-Michigan" (which aren't necessarily geographically accurate) I can understand that maybe the people around Kalamszoo consider their area "Southwest" Michigan (and as you said Grand Rapids in "West" Michigan).  So, although I feel it's slightly misleading, I can see it possibly as a point of pride for Kalamazoo.  If that's the case I'm OK with leaving it. 99.0.64.206 (talk) 16:27, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Opening Sentence

message: I believe the part about MSU-KCMS is incorrect.  The vast majority of operating costs for KCMS are funded and controlled by Bronson and Borgess.  The residency programs at MSU-KCMS have nothing to do with MSU. Djaquays (talk) 03:46, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  MSU-KCMS 

message: I note that Durova removed the following "per WP:RS and WP:LINKVIO":
:There are numerous songs that reference the city name in lyrics and title, including: "All Over The World" by Rascalz, "Down on the Corner" by Creedence Clearwater Revival,Lyrics for Down on the Corner "I've Been Everywhere" by Hank Snow and Johnny Cash;Note that when I just clicked on this link, McAfee antivirus issued the following warning concerning this website "may cause a breach of browser security.  Why were you redirected to this page? When we tested, this site attempted to make unauthorized changes to our test PC by exploiting a browser security vulnerability. This is a serious security threat which could lead to an infection of your PC." I've eliminated this link as a result, although I am sure that alternates on the web exist. "I've Got a Gal in Kalamazoo" by Glenn Miller; "Kalamazoo" by Ben Folds Five;Lyrics to Kalamazoo by Ben Folds Five. "Kalamazoo" by Primus;Lyrics for Kalamazoo by Primus "Kalamazoo" by Luna;Lyrics for Kalamazoo by Luna and Kalamazoo by Mike Craver on his album "Shining Down".Mike Craver Kalamazoo. The word also features in the opera Einstein on the Beach by Philip Glass. An indie film, Kalamazoo?, features the city as a backdrop.
To begin, these are references that support the fact that Kalamazoo is in the lyrics.  It is hard to argue about "policy".  In any event, the presumption that they are in violation of copyright is not necessarily correct (but would depend upon the terms of the sites).  Wholesale deletion of any website that quotes lyrics, even official websites of the band) does not help the article.  I guess it is Wiki's intent to be the 'copyright police' for the world.  In any event, I would note also that I personally received a note from one of the artists thanking me for putting the reference into the article. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 10:48, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Kalamazoo in [[song lyrics]]

message: Wondering why there is no mention of John Fetzer and the Fetzer Institute on this page. It seems his role in the history of radio in this city should at least be noted, not to mention the supporting hand the institute has extended financially through grants to so many programs and events that make this city so special. 
{{Pd janson (talk) 01:38, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: John Fetzer and the Fetzer Institute

message: I check pages listed in :Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of :Kalamazoo, Michigan's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "climate":
From Japan: 
From Jamaica: 
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 08:26, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orphaned references in [[:Kalamazoo, Michigan]] 

message: It appears to me that the overall tone of the Kalamazoo article is to inflate the importance of the city.  Claims of the 4th largest CMSA in Michigan are not matched by the U.S. map at the CMSA entry, which doesn't even show a CMSA for Kalamazoo-Battle Creek.  Use of the questionable MSA figure instead of the more valid urbanized area measure.  A claim that K-zoo has the first pedestrian shopping mall, when the Wiki article on that subject says that it was actually in Atcheson.  It to me seems like someone has been using this page for local boosterism.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.181.195.29 (talk) 13:36, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The Kazoo/BC CMSA is the 85th largest in country.  See List of Combined Statistical Areas.  That makes it the 4th largest in Michigan. Lansing is 83rd, Grand Rapids is 38th and Detroit is 12th.  And Kalamazoo is known as Mall City due to the pedestrian mall which was constructed in 1959.  It isn't unheard of that a Wikipedia article is wrong, but I know there has been some contention.  I wouldn't call something that the city has claimed and used as a motto for over 40 years an exaggeration, possibly just a disputed claim. Gtwfan52 (talk) 20:09, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Exaggerations 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Kalamazoo, Michigan. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I made some edits to this page and now this guy Johnfromidegon is swearing at me and trying to get me banned for editing warring just because he doesn't like some sources i put. Is it not common knowledge that this place has very little racial segregation and as far as I can tell these sources are perfectly good. Johnfromidegon you need to stop this nonsense now. You are a complete nerd who gets off on making people feel extremely angry by reverting their perfectly good edits and then you just go and hide behind your little computer screen in "Idegofuckingone". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hunenmensch (talk • contribs) 16:11, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow....that's inappropriate.  If you care to actually discuss the material you're attempting to add, let me know. And please sign your postings. John from Idegon (talk) 19:18, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: It's inappropriate, but I'm not a fan of dismissing sources as "crap" without additional comment. A project at Brown funded by the Russell Sage Foundation probably deserves further assessment, though it appears this information isn't used anywhere else on Wikipedia. Thomas Sugrue appears to be an expert; I'm unclear on whether anyone assessed his report for Gratz v. Bollinger, which is what the first source appears to be. Mackensen (talk) 19:28, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: He cited a primary source from some organization that purports to produce some statistic called a "racial diversity index". No indication of what that is, but when their data for black plus their data for white add to the total and apparently they are drawing their "index" from that, it's crap. It is in no way clear what the supposed statistic is supposed to indicate, but the editor adding it stayed that it indicated Kalamazoo is not segregated. That's blatant WP:OR. From what I could deduce, it appears that the number is drawn from the flawed figures for racial make - up of the core city v the suburbs. That makes it off topic, as it is as much about Portage as it is Kalamazoo. The bit about bussing is obviously factual, but extremely "so what?". Virtually every northern city had court ordered bussing in the 70s. Nothing here is an appropriate addition to the article.  If there were secondary sources discussing this, there might be something, but the base statistics are so flawed as bring even secondary sources discussing it into question.  John from Idegon (talk) 20:00, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

text: That other guy, , did not in any way shape or form agree with you, . Would you please drop your butt hurt attitude and discuss the addition? Your attitude is puzzling. Do you not understand that this is the process that occurs when two people disagree here? You desire to make an addition to this article. I don't agree with your addition. I have given well thought out arguments as to why, and I have more. You've done nothing but whine about how victimized you are. That is simply not the case. It is up to you to justify your addition in the face of my arguements. This a normal procedure. Your histrionics are simply complicating it. John from Idegon (talk) 05:59, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

text: John is correct; I raised a question about the sourcing and he gave a thorough answer. I haven't made up my mind but his position is convincing. Hunenmensch, why should we incorporate these sources? Mackensen (talk) 13:39, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

text: Well it is pretty clear that it is racially diverse and it would be good to point this out as one of the strengths of this area in that it is diverse unlike many other cities which have separated neighborhoods. As you said Mackensen this is a source from Browne university so it seems to be pretty accurate and just living in Kalamazoo you get the sense that for the most part it is highly integrated while living in the Detroit area there is a high degree of segregation. Maybe the racial dot map could also be used as a source. The bigger issue though is just Johnfromidegon reverting many of my edits because he doesn't like me as well as so many other peoples edits which are made in good faith and he just never assumes good faith and when you put proper sources hes just never wrong. Then he tries to make you scared like your going to get banned or something.https://demographics.virginia.edu/DotMap/index.html Hunenmensch (talk) 14:28, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, what is needed are secondary sources. If you do not have secondary sources discussing the racial diversity in the city of Kalamazoo, we do not have a basis to add anything on the subject. If you want to use primary sources, which both policy and I oppose, the raw census data will support Kalamazoo is a typical Northern US mid size city. There are two predominantly black neighborhoods which house the vast majority of the black population (Edison and Northside), a very diverse and ever changing neighborhood where the students live (which by the way always has a large Asian population, which your sources ignore), and several predominately white neighborhoods. I don't have the time right now (or even likely soon) to go dig that up, but MY WP:OR from having spent the vast majority of my life there tells me this with certainty. You can make stats say virtually anything you want by how you manipulate the numbers. Without reliable secondary sources, we have nothing.  John from Idegon (talk) 15:10, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Low racial segregration 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131212234747/http://store.kazoochamber.com/index.php?page=shop.cart&func=cartAdd&product_id=38&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=31 to http://store.kazoochamber.com/index.php?page=shop.cart&func=cartAdd&product_id=38&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=31
*Added  tag to http://www.lyricstime.com/rascalz-top-of-the-world-lyrics.html
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Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 02:17, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Chg 69.14.4.52 (talk) 05:38, 25 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  E 

message: The current skyline photo is old a new one is needed.
WeaponizingArchitecture | talk to me 14:54, 1 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Infobox Photos 

message: The fact that Kalamazoo is situated almost perfectly equidistant between Chicago and Detroit has attracted comment in various places. Anecdotally, there's a significant split between fans of Chicago teams and fans of Detroit teams. It gets mentioned in marketing. There needs to be sourcing around it, but it's not just random trivia. Mackensen (talk) 23:59, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: @Magnolia677 Your thoughts? 2600:100C:A213:E54D:99B1:77D8:9226:50B6 (talk) 00:04, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: It appears to be one of those "factoids" that get removed with regularity, per WP:NOT and WP:VNOT. But if this really is something significant to the city, like the Jucy Lucy or Steak de Burgo, then sure. Magnolia677 (talk) 09:44, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chicago and Detroit