Talk:List of actors in gay pornographic films/Archive 1

message: The article on Jamie Wingo was nominated for deletion, and barely escaped being wipd out. I expect that this is the first of a series of Wikipedia:Votes for Deletion that will hit articles linked from this page in the coming months. The articles may well lose the votes and be deleted. 
Many of these articles are currently stubs that are unlikely to be developed. I am proposing to move the text from these stubs to a "Gay erotic actors" page, while leaving the better-developed articles as stand-alones. If someone wants to extend one of the stubs to a full-length article later, the text can be transferred back. Any comments? Should I go ahead and do this? Zeromacnoo
* On further reflection, I can't really be bothered to do this. If, on the other hand, there is a vote-for-deletion attack on gay erotic actor stubs, I will go ahead and do it to protect the text from deletion. Zeromacnoo 15:33, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: proposal

message: If no one objects, I will move this to "List of gay porn stars" for the following reasons:
* it is the common name, which Wikipedia encourages, 
* "erotic actors" is a euphemism, which Wikipedia discourages, and
* it is POV to say that they are "actors". 
The question of many porn stars being "gay for pay" only is addressed in the first paragraph which notes that this is a list of people who appear in "gay porn", not that they are gay stars. I'll make this change in the coming week or so. Zeromacnoo 21:55, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Name

message: My next project will be to remove the redlinks from most of the names. Let's face: it is unlikely that articles will be written about very many of these people. If someone does want to write an articlle, they can easily edit this page to put the square brackets back in. What is happening most of the time is that a non-related article is being written about another person or thing, and an incorrect link is therefore being created from this page. Zeromacnoo 14:22, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It happened again twice: today, Butch Taylor became automatically linked to an article about a member of the Dave Matthews Band, who is not the same person as the porn star, and Kevin Williams was linked to a football player. Zeromacnoo 16:46, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I have removed the links for all names A-K except where an article exists or where the link has already been disambiguated. I will return to do the remainder within a day or two. Zeromacnoo 21:07, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Links

message: Since we seem to be getting an ever-longer list of gay porn stars, would it be useful to reorganize this article into two sections:
*Gay porn stars with articles
*Gay porn stars without articles?
Zeromacnoo 18:48, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Re-organization

message: Are the names given here realy pornstars? I can't help but think that this could probably be or has the most potential to be the most vandalized article ever. With people just add random names of their friends. --Asfalterisk 11:59, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalized? 

message: I really don't think it makes sense to wikilink all of the names on this list. It is very unlikely that articles will or even could be written about all of these people. Wikilinking indscriminately will take us back to where this list was several months ago: most of the links went to people who are not porn stars, which is pretty useless. People coming to this page are not doing so to read about college football players, US congressmen, British shopping centres (Brent Cross) or Canadian electoral districts (Brandon West), or for that matter, the refined iron product, Steel, or the meterological phenomenon, Storm. If you're going to write an article, by all means, make the link, but please don't link just because someone some day might decide to take an interest and write an article. If they do, it is likely that the first or second thing they'll do is come here and make the link themselves. Thanks. Zeromacnoo 02:16, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Wikilinking all of the names

message: It is my belief that this page should be re-nominated for VfD, due to the fact that this article is highly open to abuse, and is hardly informative. I suspect that most of the names listed are simply schoolkids who have had someone play a practical joke on them. --Intimidatedtalk 04:44, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re-nomination for VfD? 

message: *Removed John Paulus.  One scene in an audition does not make him a star. Even if the porn world loves to think so. 69.19.14.27 14:29, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  He is in ONE scene - which is his audition.  The fact that it has been included on a DVD does not make him a star.  It barely makes the definition of actor.  There are millions of actors that appear in many scenes in movies.  This is not the Actors Guild Listing.  69.19.14.43 21:25, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: * John Paulus is the former Green Beret who told the National Enquirer that he had sex with Clay Aiken. I read the synopsis of Michael Lucas' Auditions Vol. 8: Scandalous to be that John Paulus's part is limited to that of his audition—the remainder of the DVD is other performers having sex. I doubt one DVD would make him notable; however, his claim with regard to Clay Aiken and his having been a Green Beret probably do. Chidom 09:14, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minor Edits 

message: I'm just curious why we're alphabetizing by first name?--69.235.194.121 05:50, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Alphabetization

message: We have an excess of broken links on the page. I'm glad to say that this problem is not unique to this list—the other porn star lists have it, too. What might be happening is that users who don't know the markup language are imitating what they see for other entries. For example, Clueless Clod logs in and wants to add Cory Evans to the list. He opens the list in edit mode and sees "Colton Ford" listed, so mimics the style and types "Cory Evans", creating a link to nowhere. Of course, another alternative is that Clueless knows he's creating a link to nowhere, but has every intention of coming back and pounding out that article on Cory Evans as soon as he's done watching tonight's Golden Girls marathon. The obvious solution, as has been said elsewhere, is to create the article first and then add the link. I'd like to go through this list of names and delete any redline links. Same goes for links to other pages that don't yet exist—"List of popular gay porn videos" in the "See also" section, for example. There's so much of this - is this intended to identify articles that need to be written? If we decide to get rid of all the broken ones, could we post a boxed heading at the top of the page reminding folks to write the article first and then create the link? Chidom 07:47, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Redlines

message: From what I've read, the current page navigation is light years ahead of where it started, but I'd like to propose some improvements. Namely, could we repeat the alphabet links at the bottom of the page as well? Additionally, could we add a  "[Top]" link at the end of the listing for each letter to return to the alpha links at the top of the page? I'll be responsible for getting it done if you think it's a good idea. Chidom 07:47, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Page navigation

message: Some of the links in the "See also" section seem to be pointing to commercial sites rather than sites with good reference content. (Check out the Gay Porn Stars Guide link, for example.) Okay to delete things like this in the moment as long as I put a note here saying I did so and why? Or is that even necessary if I use the Edit summary? Chidom 07:47, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Information or advertising?

message: Here we go again with what's "notable". I searched this guy on tlaVideo and came up with four DVDs - one a promotional compilation - all from Raging Studios and all made last year (2005). Is it too soon to count this guy out? That's impressive output for a single year from a major studio. He doesn't have a page, is only listed, if that matters. Chidom 20:16, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sean Harris listing

message: I notice there's a link for some performers to their personal webpages:
* Breck Stewart www.breckstewart.com 
* Lance Gear www.LanceGear.com
* Pierre Fitch www.pierrefitchonline.com
I standardized the links to make it more obvious that they're external (used the website name as the link); my personal feeling would be that we not include these links, as these sites are generally promotional and commerce-related, not reference material.
Thoughts on removing the links? Chidom 20:16, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Links to porn performer external personal sites?

message: Is there any way that we can require anyone who wants to edit this list to register first? I don't care if they make up a name for themselves or whatever; having them go through the process of registration would discourage some of the vandals. I recognize Wikipedia's "anyone can edit" policy, but it seems registration isn't a great deal to ask before someone does! Is there a talk page about this somewhere?— Chidom 20:26, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You could get the page semi-protected, but I'm not sure it would qualify, since it's not rampant, constant vandalism. -- Omicronpersei8 (talk) 20:27, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Fly-by editors

message: I'm moving the earlier entry that was at the top of the page down here to maintain a history. We've received formal licensing now; please see Successful requests for permission which details the receipt of a GNU Free Documentation License (GFDL) for all images on the HisXpress.com site.
From earlier:
----
I'm placing copies of e-mails of interest to anyone wishing to use an image of a porn perfomer obtained from the HisXpress website:
e-mail I sent:
To: info@hisxpress.com 
Subject: Model photos
Hi -
I am working on an article in Wikipedia on Randy White and would like your permission to use the photo you have of him at http://www.hisxpress.com/media/randy_white_sm.jpg in the article. You may view the article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_White_%28porn_star%29; the photo that is there will be replaced, as it is incorrectly identified.
Could you grant use of this image for this purpose? Would it also be possible to get a blanket approval for use of any of the images of models that are included at www.hisxpress.com in articles in Wikipedia? This would include the pictures you have in the models listing and possibly those in the upper corner of the model's filmography page.
We would always list attribution to New Millenium Video or other such entity as you direct.
I appreciate your assistance with this request. Please let me know if you need further information.
Thanks.
Charles N. Sublett
Received this response:
"HisXpress" <emails@hisxpress.2ss.net> Subject: Re: Model photos
Dear Charles,
Please feel free to use any model photos found on our pages-no credit needed.
Sincerely,
Arthur Workman Co-Owner New Millennium Video
—Chidom talk  09:28, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Permission to use images 

message: Could we get consensus on how to list performers' filmographies? Some are in chronological order, others in alphabetical order. Lest you think this is trivial, similar information in an encyclopedia should be listed in a consistent manner. So, please add your vote (and comments, if you like) under the bullets below. You need only vote "Yes" for your choice; please don't vote "No" for the other choices. If you don't have a vote, but do have a comment, please enter it under this introductory paragraph, not under one of the options. 
I personally prefer alphabetical order (and have changed some articles to reflect that). I think it's easier to find a particular film if the list is in alpha order.
I can understand a desire to have them chronologically ordered, for instance, wanting to find the most recent (and therefore most likely available) work. If you want them in chronological order, the decision also needs to be made about listing the most recent work or the oldest work at the top of the list. —Chidom talk  20:21, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Filmography Order

message: I'm not sure why this tag was put on the page; there's nothing in the talk pages (including the archive) to explain it. Since several of these porn performers are from other countries (William Higgins, Jean Cadinot, and Kristen Bjorn all use non-U.S. models extensively, if not exclusively). If it comes down to it, I doubt that the United States is the only place where the films these guys have made are shown; maybe we could get documentation from Falcon or one of the other studios as to how much overseas commerce they do. For now, I'm taking off the tag until someone explains why it's there to start with.—Chidom talk  18:27, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Limited geographic scope / worldwide view 

message: I have requested that this page be semi-protected (no edits without a user account or from accounts less than 4 days old); the rate of vandalism is such that things are being missed even with several editors watching the page.—Chidom talk  11:14, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just for notice, I have semi-protected the page. Hopefully, it won't have to be too long. Yanksox 03:58, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected 

message: ::(The following are comments from the talk pages for User talk:Chidom and User talk:Rhyddfrydol on whether or not this person should be on the list; they are being moved here so that others may comment.)
I'm removing his name from the List of gay porn stars as well, he doesn't qualify as a "star".—Chidom talk  23:33, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Being listed in the IMDB does not justify an article in Wikipedia; he has exactly one film from 1984 (Harem); one film does not a star make. It also used to be absurdly easy to be listed in the IMDB; I have an entry as well ( ! ). The List of gay porn stars is maintained primarily to keep track of articles about stars that have been written and articles that need to be written. Since it's unlikely that Mr. Darget will ever have an article, his name doesn't belong on the list. If you still want to list him, please respond on my talk page with reasons why. Thanks.—Chidom talk  22:12, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have listed him because he has an imdb entry.  The rationale from reading the discussion on the delete page is that actors with imdb entries should be included on the list. Incidentally I would like to know what happened to him after that one film, but thats another line.  I'm sure there are other one-film wonders in the list too. Why are you singling out Mr Darget for exclusion from Wikipedia? Rhyddfrydol 22:16, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pierre-Yves Darget 

message: I have deleted the external links to websites that are unverifiable as to accuracy: ManNet; Yahoo / Google / MSN groups / Gay Porn Corner. The commerical sites that are listed offer items for sale and are thus updated on  a regular basis and offering a product—not just a line of text—about the person on the list.—Chidom talk  17:32, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deletion of some external links 

message: This entry has been removed. The sources for this assertion are questionable at best; this is a living, professional figure skater. If he is in fact Chase Alters, I would question if he belongs on the list at all. He has an article in Wikipedia. I'm checking the sources for that article.—Chidom talk  18:21, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Matthew Hall]] / Chase Alters 

message: This won't fit in the edit summary unless I do it in stages; that's more work that I'm not willing to do (this was enough work as it was). 
The following names were deleted as having no records:
* André Chiasson
* Denis Mazerolle
* Greg Vergeylen
* Jean-Marc Leblanc
* Michael Winters a.k.a. Tom Bombadildo
* Patrick T. Dugan
* Pecora, AJ
I also deleted Rocco Rodriguez, I found him listed in a non-porn documentary
—Chidom talk  18:38, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism reverts