Talk:List of guided busways and BRT systems in the United Kingdom

message: It meets all criteria except off-bus paying and busways Welshleprechaun (talk) 21:56, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Tram like vehicles? Level boarding? Traffic signal linked? It is not BRT, it is merely a high quality route which can now be found in most cities. It would be pointless to list all operations with new vehicles and bus lanes. MickMacNee (talk) 22:03, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Swansea uses FTR vehicles, off bus ticketing, traffic signal priority, and 'stations'. Gateshead used a busway (not a bus lane). I have no problem with you calling Cardiff a BRT system without a shred of citation, but then I will Afd this article, because it will merely a list of usage of bus lanes and bendy buses, i.e pointless. MickMacNee (talk) 14:44, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: FTR vehicles are nothing more than bendy buses. Yes they use off bus ticketing and Cardiff doesn't but what makes their bus stops stations exactly? Welshleprechaun (talk) 15:43, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: FTR vehicles are not merely bendy buses, look at the article, you cannot interact with the driver as you do in a conventional bus, as with a tram the driver only drives the vehicle in a separate compartment, also the exterior styling/bodywork is more tram like than conventional bendy buses. Have a look at the Swansea project pages to see the infrastructure work regarding creating station like stops. MickMacNee (talk) 15:58, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Cardiff

message: How should the article be structured and systems classified, if at all? Pondle (talk) 08:58, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Right I see, but are there systems which are 100% guided? Welshleprechaun (talk) 14:37, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the scheme in Cambridgeshire is, not sure about the planned systems. To be honest MickMacNee seems to be the editor with most knowledge of the specifications of different systems. Pondle (talk) 14:46, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortunately he seems to be unwilling to cooperate though. I just don't see the point of having a category for one or two systems. Why is there the need to differentiate. It will be made clear how much % is guided. Welshleprechaun (talk) 17:19, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The logic of not differentiating would ultimately suggest a single list with no categorisation, which is the first option and what we have at present. There is a valid argument for this: after all, BRT schemes can feature many different styles of vehicles, 'station' characteristics, fare collection methods and other features; we are arbitrarily looking at a classification by the type of roadway used. Would a BRT scheme with only 10% of its route guided be 'more appropriately' listed alongside a wholly guided system, even if its vehicles, ticketing arrangements etc. shared more in common with some of the other wholly-unguided networks? My point is, whichever characteristic is chosen to categorise the systems on this page, at the end of the day it's a subjective choice about what is 'important'. Anyway, I think we're going round in circles somewhat and repeating the prior discussion, so maybe we should just wait to see what other editors have to say. Pondle (talk) 21:40, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  As an outsider to this discussion I would make the following points.  Firstly, we need to settle on the core puropose of this article.  It seems to be trying to achive two things at the moment, to guide viewers to a more detailed UK BRT articles and to provide a summary view of the types of BRT within the UK.  I would note that other similar pages take different views.  For example List of bus rapid transit systems in North America and List of town tramway systems in the United States both use tables to provide a summary view of key details while List of bus rapid transit systems (which includes a link to this article) is really a plain list.  IMO I believe you should have a single list with key characteristics listed at the beginning of each list item or to change the format to a single table (to achieve the same end).  A key advantage of BRT (guided and unguided) they are usually only form part of the travellers end-to-end bus journey. Unlike Light Rail that must have a LRT corridor the whole length of the service, BRT is usually implemented where needed only and normal roads (with or without bus lanes) are also able to be used by the bus service.  Being able to share normal roads is what provides bus services with a reach to users for the PT that is exceeded only by the private car.  Unfortuantely, this very flexibility in design means it is hard to clearly categorise specific implementations. Defining BRT isn't a problem we are trying to solve, but a condition we are trying to describe :) Bigglesjames (talk) 21:01, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request for comment 

message: I'm surprised that, unlike the majority of articles relevant to transport, there is no mention of the opposition held towards guided busways in the UK. The Cambridgeshire Guided Busway has had a great deal of opposition towards it, as noted on its Wikipedia article, so perhaps it is time to include a criticisms section that details such opposition towards the UK's busways and even the very concept of the guided busway. --Crablogger (talk) 09:19, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticisms 

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