Talk:Final Fantasy VII/Archive 5

message: During the epilogue that follows, the ruins of Midgar are shown five hundred years later. While the landscape had once been desolate due to Shinra's operations, it is now a land of lush greenery.
This sentence should be removed as it is trivial, unnecessary, and uhhh too minor for mention, and there is no explanation for this scene. Kariteh 10:33, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The explanation doesn't have to be written or stated explicitly. This is a flash forward, to where groups like Avalanche have succeeded in saving the planet. The planet has presumably recovered and is letting life grow where its life, the Lifestream, was stolen before, similar to how plants will grow after a fire desolates an area. It may be 'trivial', and it's not necessary to the story, but it's there to give people a warm fuzzy feeling in knowing that the good guys succeeded in their mission. That's what I think anyway. Nique1287 13:36, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that's what you think. That's just an opinion, unlike Tidus' rebirth in FFX which is a fact. Kariteh 13:59, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, the shot of Midgar being overgrown with plants is an open-ended ending, you can interpret it the way you want to. The part of the FFX ending where Tidus is 'reborn' has no explanation, not even an IMPLIED explanation, whereas in FFVII Shinra had basically been dismantled, Sephiroth had been destroyed, and the planet was allowed to recover, so it follows that Midgar would be overgrown with plants after it was abandoned. On top of that, the "sequel", FFVII: Advent Children, doesn't nullify the ending of FFVII, whereas the sequel to FFX, FFX-2, does, since its beginning occurs when the rebirth of Tidus had not yet taken place. Also, please remember to assume good faith on Wikipedia unless good faith is proven to have been broken. I only say that this scene should stay in the summary, when I was against the inclusion of the Tidus scene, because this scene has reason, explanation without too many leaps of faith, and it fits in with what had happened at the end of the game. Nique1287 15:03, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: FFX-2 doesn't nullify the ending of FFX: you are yourself saying that it begins before the rebirth of Tidus has taken place. It would contradict something if it began after the supposed rebirth, but it's not. It begins before. So where's the difference here?? FFVII: Advent Children also takes place before the ruined Midgar scene (which is stated to happen 500 years after FFVII in FFVII), so of course it doesn't nullify the ending of the game. I fail to see where's the difference between the two examples. The two sentences in the two articles should either both remain or both be removed. Kariteh 15:13, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

text: FFX itself gives no explanation for the scene with Tidus. FFVII does give an implied explanation, if you do more than just watch the pretty shiny moving things on the screen, for the scene of Midgar. That's the difference. Nique1287 15:19, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Just a note, what goes on in one article has absolutely no bearing in another article. There is no rule saying that every article should be treated exactly the same. Axem Titanium 23:57, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Mentioning Midgar's future

message: I am trying to get the names of the production staff. I want to add staff members to the article under the production staff. It just gets deleted over and over. Can you help me? I was wondering about this. I really need to put the commentaries in ther as well. I tried to help, but I couldn't do it. I am really scared and it is driving me crazy. Please help. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sjones23 (talk • contribs) 22:40, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The list of staff is trivial. It is not necessary for the integrity of the article, and if anything it detracts from the style of the article. As I've said in my edit summaries, credits are given at the end of the game if people want to know everyone who contributed to the production of the game. Extended lists, such as production staff with no commentary, just as a list, have no place on Wikipedia. Nique1287 22:43, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no idea what "commentaries" you're talking about but per WP:NOT#IINFO and WP:TRIVIA, the production lists fail to be interesting or important (despite being factual) and can be easily found in imdb or some other website that doesn't have content restrictions like Wikipedia. Axem Titanium 23:01, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, the important (relevant) staff members are already listed in the infobox at the top right side of the page, and are also described in the Development section. No need to repeat the information in a list with no commentary. Kariteh 23:39, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, Kariteh and AxemTitanium, I agree with your opinions, but I was just only trying to help add some more important people to the list, but I can do that in the infobox. Oh, wait, I can tell you that there are also the full staff list at [[Moby Games. --Sjones23 01:10, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

text: If it's already there, why does it have to be duplicated here? If it's useful as an external link, then add it. We even have a template for it:  Axem Titanium 01:43, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I guess you are right.--Sjones23 22:01, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Final Fantasy VII staff list

message: for a feature article, I'd wonder why major plot points don't have a spoiler warning. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Joeblack982 (talk • contribs) 10:57, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: See #Spoiler Warning; this was recently discussed (again). — TKD::Talk 11:54, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Because it's a featured article. Only bad articles have spoiler warnings. I normally notice that whenever a page has no spoiler warning, it's normally well-written and comprehensive. --TheEmulatorGuy 05:21, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well said. — Deckiller 09:09, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  spoiler 

message: Deleted an unnecessary comma in the "Criticism" subsection, in the first sentence of the second paragraph.
I am finding few other problems with the grammatical integrity of the article, and hold it as one of the best I've seen in the community. .Absolution. 10:52, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Make that "Critical response."  It's late. .Absolution. 10:55, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Typographical Dissonance 

message: I have a few comments. I know that Kitase and Nojima wrote the scenario, but only Nojima wrote the scenario for FFVIII. How long did development take? What is a flower merchant? What is the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII about? How many staff members worked on this game? Any information is always welcome. Sjones23 15:34, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A flower merchant is someone who sells flowers, and the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII is all of the Final Fantasy VII related media, like Advent Children, Dirge of Cerberus, etc.  "Compilation" is just what Square calls it.  --PresN 22:55, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comment 

message: One editor added links to videos of interviews concerning the game to the article, twice, but both times it was removed without explanation.  Anyone want to give a reason for removing the interview links?--Vercalos 05:11, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: These interviews are part of the "Making of Final Fantasy VII" featurette which appears on a bonus CD in the packages of Final Fantasy VII International and Final Fantasy VII Advent Children. It is thus a commercially released product and cannot be linked in a Wikipedia article according to Wikipedia:External links. Kariteh 10:17, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: However, if the editor who added them wants, you could reference them inline, assuming you have something to add to the article that's taken from these interviews.  --Daedalus 20:32, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Video interviews of staff 

message: some idiot has been messing with the section titles, please fix. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.129.198.248 (talk • contribs).
:Can you be more specific? I see nothing wrong with the section titles. :: ZJH (T C E) 04:22, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Someone fix all the titles 

message: Someone erased all the articles and substituted  it with the Japanese flag! (ChloeSong 06:18, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: extreme vandalism!

message: "As his style was considered too exquisite to be compatible with the visual format of the project, this issue was addressed by bringing Tetsuya Nomura onboard as its character designer, while Amano aided in the design of the game's world map[61] Previously a monster designer for Final Fantasy V,[64] and also designed its title logo. Nomura's style was more reminiscent of manga, and considered easier to adapt.[61]"
As you can see, the bolded line is incomplete... The clause apparently became separated from its sentence after a certain number of edits. I'd correct it but I'm not even sure who it refers to (Nomura or Amano??). Can someone fix it? Kariteh 15:24, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is why I wish we had stable versions for FAs :) — Deckiller 18:56, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I fixed the sentence above, although I'm not completely satisfied with how it sounds. I'll try to go through the entire article before its featured date. Axem Titanium 22:55, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Orphaned clause in Development section

message: Congrats for the ppl who made possible that one of my fav games appear in the main page. Great Work!!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Alextrevelian 006 (talk • contribs) 01:11, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Look at all the reverts! Shouldn't the page be protected? Matrixhax0r 01:38, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What the deuce? I havent notice that, why in earth it isnt protected since is a featured article?. Anyway, I just requested a cascading protection --ometzit<col> 01:45, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Actually, featured articles are never protected. Its so anon. IPs can add more info to it (but most of them end up vandalizing the article like here  & )-- Hdt83 | Talk 01:48, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We don't want to say "Look, this is a featured article, one of the best in Wikipedia. Unfortunately, you can't edit it." Protection is only for extreme situations. -- ReyBrujo 01:54, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: OMG thats ridiculous I didn´t know that if its a featured article it´s because is great the way it is but if someone want to see today best article and found that only niggers like FFVII or that Aeris die at the end then whats the point? Also it would be horrible finding that Aeris dies at the end, I know that because i once enter to half blood prince article and the page was replaced with a bold Dumbledure is killed at the end by snape. In any case, I didnt know that, another point less to wikipedia--ometzit<col> 02:01, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Since Aeris' death is out in the open...I want to point out that Aeris does not die in the end, but rather at the end of the first disc. Sumnjim 12:37, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

text: OMG, Aeris dies! Why did you tell me? It has been only 10 years since the game was released! Now I won't be able to enjoy the game anymore! -- ReyBrujo 02:05, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I can see a little bit of O rly? My brother havent play it nd i always have told he that is one of the best games for PS (Yeah, i still have it, it still works nd I enjoy it). In any case, if thats the policy that the almighty Jimbo imposed what can I do ;)--ometzit<col> 02:16, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Just remember to warn users when you revert, otherwise they will continue vandalizing. -- ReyBrujo 02:26, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I won't delete your comment (it's bad form), but your suggestion is well taken. I'll try to incorporate it, but you're welcome to be bold and do it yourself too. Axem Titanium 04:30, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Just thought I'd swing by and say congratulations to all of the people who got this to FA status.  You guys rock!  Kntrabssi 04:35, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I'm not a regular contributor to Wiki, but thank you all who've helped to get this as a featured article. It's a fantastic compilation deserving of the honor. But it gave me a big smile to see it on the main page. Thanks again! 203.129.39.176 19:46, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I also want to thank everyone for getting this on the main page.  I remember when the game first came out.  I already had it reserved for 6 months, and I skipped the last 1/2 of my school day to drive 40 miles to the mall to pick it up.  At the time, it was the most amazing game ever made (IMO).  That game gave me many ups (killing the weapons) and downs (Aeris' death).  Absolutely fantastic game.  Sumnjim 12:20, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Great Work!!!

message: The article Final Fantasy VII has been heavily vandalised once again...!!! Can anyone restore this article back? After that restoration, I think maybe we should semi-lock the article to avoid vandalism by annonymous users. Hezery99 13:01, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's today's frontpage article, we can't protect it, and admins will not protect it either. It has to be left unprotected so that anyone who wants to make a constructive edit can. It just happens that frontpage articles tend to get vandalized the most on their day. Nothing we can do but keep reverting and wait til tomorrow. Nique talk 14:03, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I thought that (at least at one point) all featured articles were semi-protected during the day that they are put up precisely because of the potential for heavy vandalism?  - Fearless Son 17:53, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

text: That's a shame, 'cause some people keeps changing the article in an inappropiate way and submitting stupid stuff--DrMauroFrenchman 04:47, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another extreme vandalism 

message: It seems like there is too much plot (story) in the setting section.  Especially the second half.  66.167.71.151 14:41, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not really; it's describing the backstory. I would prefer a lot of it moved to an article (along with the crufty location list subarticle, not the two paragraphs in the article, those are fine) called Gaia (Final Fantasy VII) to follow in the footsteps of Spira (Final Fantasy X), but we'll get to that eventually. — Deckiller 14:46, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Too much plot in the setting section?

message: I don't think I saw a spoiler warning before reading this article.  This article does contain many details that viewers might not want to see if they have not played the game —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.118.21.98 (talk) 14:48, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There have been numerous debates over this in the past, which led to certain WikiProjects, such as the Final Fantasy/Square Enix WikiProjects, not using them. — Deckiller 14:50, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Which projects have banned it besides the FF project, and are you sure the SE one banned it? Kariteh 16:00, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: . I don't really see the need to detract time away from editing to look for the other projects that omit them completely or go on a "case by case basis", except the Video Games WikiProject, which implemented a "case by case" guideline for flexibility. I said "do not use them" ("ban" implies a strict ruling), which ties into that "case by case basis". Also, a WikiProject does not necessarily have to be a formal group: it can be as simple as a FA push. This can be seen in articles like Shadow of the Colossus, The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, and so on, which do not use the tags and fall under the CVG guideline stressing "case by case basis". But the horse has already been beaten enough; if a group of editors working on an article do not wish to use the warnings (and vice versa), then that's the example of the case by case basis outlined in the CVG MoS. — Deckiller 16:22, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: One I know of is Wikiproject Opera ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 22:38, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spoiler Warning 

message: I remember this game having a poor response when it came out.  I remember it getting bad reviews and everybody talking shit about it when it first came out.  It seems like it has more of a cult following, but the article suggests that it did extremely well.  Can somebody explain this to me? Rzrscm 19:38, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You remember incorrectly. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 19:41, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I definetly remember correctly.  I was reluctant to buy it because of the criticism. Rzrscm 19:44, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Or, cutting more to the facts than opinions, the vast majority of the reviews at launch were positive, and it was a best-seller. That isn't to say you didn't read or hear of a negative review, but they were not in the majority at the time. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 03:28, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reception 

message: This is sorta getting rediculous. Mendinso 20:45, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Unfortunately, I'm on wireless, so my vandal fighting is limited. I think first-offense blocks are good in this situation; the first block is the user's warning. — Deckiller 20:46, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There seems to be a fascination with turning the words backwards..--Cao Wei 21:12, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  And the vandalism starts... 

message: I really think we should do this. Final Fantasy VII has intense philosophical, psycholigical subtext. It's why I loved the game anyway.--AquaFox 20:27, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia does not allow original research and unsourced analysis. Please see the attribution policy and its subpages for more. The Final Fantasy Wikia might allow something like that, however. — Deckiller 20:42, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I like this or it at least should be mentioned inr eception or something because there has been a lot looked into. I know that in A Play Within A Play in Issue 84 of The Escapist e-magazine they take a look at some of the psycological aspects in how they developed the characters and why exactly FF VII was a success Ariolander 06:32, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Starting a subtext analysis page 

message: So is Cloud a copy of Sephiroth or not. I was never to clear on that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.119.6.234 (talk) 
:Firstly, please sign your talk page entries, and add them to the bottom of the page instead of the top. Second, Wikipedia talk pages are not a discussion forum, they're for discussing changes to the article. Thirdly, he's not a clone of anyone, though he does believe for a time that Zack's story is, for the most part, his own. Nique talk 00:17, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Clone

message: The article Final_Fantasy_VII_Snowboarding states that it is not part of the compilation but the list here still includes it. So what's the real deal? Berserkerz Crit 14:09, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It says quite clearly that Compilation titles are listed in bold and FFVII Snowboarding is not bolded. Axem Titanium 14:54, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Compilation

message: Someone's forgotten to mention the fourth landmass...the western continent! Unless it's not relevant to the section, I dunno... --195.195.249.9 13:56, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wutai isn't a fourth landmass, it is an archipelago that is part of the western continent.  For that matter, Wutai is the name of the village, not the area. Wutai is an entirely optional location that only has any significance if you get an optional character, thus it is trivial in regards to game as a whole.  --—ΔαίδαλοςΣΣ 15:52, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's also where you have to go to get a summon Materia (Leviathan) in which said optional character is required in order to get the Materia. So it has some respects to gameplay. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Darkpower (talk • contribs) 13:49, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Absolutely, it does.  But those are still all optional.  It should have no more credence in this article than any other optional sidequest.  Does Missing Number and the side quest with the chests in the ShinRa Mansion get a mention in the article?  You get a Summon Materia for that one too, right?.  Yet overall it is still completely trivial.  The same goes for Wutai.  In fact, the only place that Wutai really should be mentioned at all is to say that Yuffie comes from there.  Not even the ShinRa-Wutai war from 15 years before the game is notable enough to be mentioned in any way other than backstories for Aerith and Yuffie.  --—ΔαίδαλοςΣ 17:15, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wutai 

message: Is posting Youtube videos on Wikipedia allowed? Especially videos that show the gameplay of a certain player's video game? — Bluerです。 なにか? 11:39, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There might be times when a YouTube video could technically be 'allowed'...I'm not positive. FFMaster7's links don't belong here though since they are simply not notable. --OnoremDil 11:45, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Youtube videos are allowed when they are legal. Copyrighted stuff are definitely not allowed. Kariteh 14:13, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Youtube Links 

message: I removed the abbreviations as per Wikipedia:WikiProject Final Fantasy/Manual of style#General Rules because these aren't allowed generally (i.e. RPG, PS1, WIN). Sjones23 19:49, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Abbreviations 

message: References a "flaregamer.com" article as its primary source material, and yet the source article has no form of attribution. It talks about Nomura in third-person, never quoting him or providing any source of its own. For all I can see it is purely speculative. One problem in particular is that the article claims that Limit Breaks were a replacement for Desperation Attacks, however the Limit Breaks have much more in common with the unique special abilities that characters had in FF4 and FF6. In fact, some of the Limit moves are borrowed from the earlier games' specials, such as the Dragoon Jump. If a reliable source cannot be found for these statements, I think the entire portion of the Combat subsection where Nomura is discussed should be removed. Ham Pastrami 16:03, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The flaregamer article cites its sources and has an editor staff; it is reliable enough for the subject at hand. They are a modified form of the Desperation attacks; similar concepts. The names of attacks have nothing to do with the actual concept. — Deckiller 16:12, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Combat subsection 

message: Please go see WP:SPOILER and read what does not need a spoiler tag, fictional articles with the plot or story section is KNOWN to contain spoilers and does not need a spoiler tag.  So stop adding those in for the sake of following the guidelines. MythSearchertalk 00:52, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  To all those who wished to add a spoiler tag 

message: The article is a one sentence mention, since the whole game is just the putting of the chocobo racing element from this game onto its own disk. Judgesurreal777 05:40, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree. I don't even know such article exist! — Bluerで す。 06:31, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just a question. Do you really know if the game is a direct port of the FFVII Chocobo racing minigame, or do you say this only because that's what's written in the article? Kariteh 20:40, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: http://www.square-haven.com/games/ps/cs/#links Here is a link and on further inspection, I am not so sure....could we get some other people to help look into this? Judgesurreal777 00:12, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Talked about it on FF wikiproject, evidence points to a unique game. Removing merger. Judgesurreal777 03:42, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Merger of Chocobo Stallion into FFVII article

message: I doubt Final Fantasy ACTUALLY cause the 1999 massacre. Who else agrees? And, before this is erased, be sure to actually answer this, someone! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.111.228.106 (talk) 
:I agree. It is ridiculous. What's your point? The article does not say that the game caused the massacre. The article says that families making that claim filed a lawsuit, which is verified by the reference provided. --OnoremDil 01:31, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Massacre? Rediculous! 

message: IGN has some nifty new information about Final Fantasy VII's original plot draft as written by Sakaguchi. There are details about how the development team members refined the draft and how it evolved. It's really interesting and should added to the article.. Kariteh 09:58, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: bump. Kariteh 07:31, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Bump again. I'll see if I can work on this article this week. Axem Titanium 20:25, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hot Blooded Detective Joe 

message: I was considering a rewrite on the story section. I agree that it is too long. What should I do to edit this page? Also should this following hidden message be added? 
This section has been edited to comply with the featured article criteria. Please do not add any unnecessary information. If you do wish to add detail on certain events, please discuss the additions on the talk page first or direct the detail to any article that it pertains to the topic at hand. For example, if you wish to add detail on Aerith Gainsborough's death, go to the Aerith Gainsborough article and add your information there. Any unneeded info added to this plot will quickly reverted, including any addition of spoiler tags. This plot is meant to be as comprehensive as possible, while only containing the details needed to understand plot at its most basic level.
I think the story section needs a lot of rewriting. Are there any suggestions? Sjones23 21:56, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The phrasing of this hidden paragraph is being discussed here.  --ΔαίδαλοςΣ 22:01, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I haven't the opportunity to read it thoroughly, but it clearly needs all the citations and notes as per the other Story sections of other FF articles. It also has glaring grammar and spelling mistakes. — Blue。 17:25, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Also, caution, you accidentally removed a picture from the section. I've restored it. Kariteh 17:58, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  ah, thanks. yeh, i knew about the lack of links and footnotes, etc. it'll take a bit of work. but in general the re-write is acceptable? Kiran 09:44, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  The story section needs to be reduced by half; editing should emphasize compressing information in fewer words, removing excess information, removing redundancies, and Original Research/Fancruft. References from the script are also in order. You forgot to add script references. This is needed, as with all FF articles (i.e. FFVI, FFIV, FFX, FFXII) Greg Jones II 12:55, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, you already said this right above and word for word. The section needs to be reduced by half only once, not twice. That would be reducing it by what, 75 per cent? :/ Kariteh 13:04, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I think reducing it by 75% is not enough. Greg Jones II 04:38, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I agree. Reducing it by more than 75% is physically impossible. Kariteh 08:23, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Story rewrite 

message: was it originally called Square, or Squaresoft? Kiran90 09:55, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is Squaresoft on its logo. MythSearchertalk 10:05, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

text: SquareSoft was a brand name used by the company. SquareSoft, Inc. was the name of the official North American subsidiary. The name of the company was Square Co., Ltd. See Square Co.#Subsidiaries and related corporations. --OnoremDil 10:10, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

text: It's explained above. Square was the company who developed and published it. --Onorem♠Dil 11:10, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Square/soft 

message: It might help to provide that all-important third-party out-of-universe reception and analysis for the sections on plot. Just a suggestion...Geuiwogbil 18:12, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: yeh, sorry the re-write is taking a while, i havent had that much spare time. i'll get round to it, though :P Kiran 10:26, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A relevant source? 

message: Ref #43 seems to be empty.
Also please consider saying... something... anything... about #Hot Blooded Detective Joe. Kariteh 07:59, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done filling it. — Blue。 09:39, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A broken source 

message: We need to add plot citations into the story section. When the story section was rewritten, the plot references were stripped. Greg Jones II 14:12, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Keep the reference; just retrieve it from the Wayback Machine and fill in the archiveurl= and archivedate= fields of the citation template. Kariteh 15:04, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not archived, it says. Davhorn 16:00, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Aww, that's a problem I guess. I don't know what should be done. Kariteh 19:53, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's the problem with citing webpages. MLA says to include the last known access date as a caveat to readers who are trying to look for it as to when it was last available (roughly). Therefore, it can still be cited, it's just more difficult/impossible for other readers to find. Axem Titanium 20:01, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Would be nice if there was some archive with no copyright-limitations where we could put copies of all referenced sites. These things are bound to happen more and more as sites continue to disappear. Davhorn 21:02, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations? 

message: The plot summary is wrong. It does not start with Cloud joining AVALANCHE. It starts with an AVALANCHE mission to destroy a reactor. It starts with Cloud and Barret kicking those guards asses. its like you are put right in the fray at the beginning. I am not sure if Cloud was even a official member i think i remember him officially joining at the bar after the mission Mambi55 03:41, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  plot changes  

message: Trying to translate this into Norwegian and I'm wondering what the hell this sentence means:
Art director Yusuke Naora refers to the game's atmosphere as "strong [and] dark",[66] achieved through lighting effects that he considers "the darkest of darkest",[67] and a story that emphasised realism while drawing on a variety of myths, legends, and religious and philosophical systems to "[use] as a framework for loftier ethical aspirations and ecologically conscious evangelism".
Could someone please explain? :) Davhorn 12:37, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Here's my interpretation:  He wants the atmosphere to be dramatic and dark  in a very brooding manner, kind of like what Tim Burton does.  To do this he chose to use lighting effects that emphasize shadows.  He also wanted it to be a very real story that could be beleivable, not necessarily the elements of the story, but rather how the story unfolds.  As an example a story may be considered fantasy by having an evil wizard in it, but you can emphasize realism by having realistic reactions and events as if wizards were real, and having the evil wizard act in a manner that would be beleivable from his station..  He sought to do something similar using religious and philosophical systems to be the basis.  If we were to accept the religious and philosophical systems as true fact, then what follows in the story around them should be realistic.  But the main theme that all of this illustrates is one of what is ecologically righteous, using judeo-christian values and applying them to the environment and nature and how to coexist peacefully without destroying the natural world around us, as well as the cliche dichotomy of good and evil that we usually see in video games.  --ΔαίδαλοςΣ 19:50, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That makes much more sense. Thanks. :) Davhorn 21:01, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Translation woes

message: I heard that there was going to be a remake of Final Fantasy VII for the PS3. Is there any comfirmation or denial of this?
:That "trailer" is actually just a tech demo to display the PS3's power. Square Enix has given no comments on whether there's a remake or not. (Meanwhile, people continue to assume they will make one.)—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 17:09, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, the models built for the techno demo seems to be very useful in FFVII:AC and FFVII:DC probably will still be useful in FFVII:CC, isn't it?
there are no plans to remake the game it was recently apoligized for that it caused confusion among fans that belived such.--Dalaga Helios 20:33, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Final Fantasy VII Remake 

message: Eidos released a Final Fantasy VII alpha demo with various pc games eg: Fighting Force, Braveheart and Soul Reaver. It lets people play a section of the game around Corel. The demo is designed for 3DFX cards only and the .exe is dated as March 18 1998.
On the same disk is a software only demo that includes the golden saucer fights, the .exe is dated June 19 1998.
Would that be enough evidence to support that the 3dfx build closet to completion at that time, seeing as it was a public playable demo. Atirage 14:34, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pc development 

message: The Compilation of Final Fantasy VII section was uncomplete; I added some details into it and it's becoming quite long. I also added an Audio subsection stub since one was missing. The article is so long that it takes a while to load the page each time one loads or edits it (I don't have such a low Internet connection, but it's noticeable compared with other articles); the CoFFVII's section is only remotely connected with the rest of the article (after the gigantic FFVII Development section comes this long CoFFVII section about yet another development); and the CoFFVII's utterly missing Audio section makes the FA criteria spirit cries. I think it should be split. Kariteh 15:44, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you look at the redirect's page history, you'll see that it used to be its own article (see this discussion about merging it). But, perhaps it can stand alone again seeing as how the FFVII article is starting to bulge. ~ Hibana 23:51, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay since everyone agrees, I'll split the section in a while. Kariteh 14:50, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Compilation of Final Fantasy VII split 

message: See todo box above. Kariteh 14:48, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well I tagged the wrong template but anyway (fixed now)... To be more explicite: this section has a main article, Gaia (Final Fantasy VII), and thus it is supposed to be a small summary of that article (or what's relevant from it, at least). However, the current section is very long, and it's almost more encyclopedic/less crufty than the Gaia article! This, plus the fact that the FFVII article is really long in kilobyte, should be a reason to move most of the section to the Gaia article, leaving here only a small summary. Kariteh 21:57, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Setting section 

message: The third paragraph (after several edits and reverts) currently reads:
A major critical and commercial success, the game remains arguably the most popular title in the series
(emphasis to draw attention)
I feel that this wording is very POV/Biased, as the word Arguably is just a qualifier that proves it.  Previous wording was that "the game remains one of the most popular titles" rather than "the game remains arguably the most popular title".
While it can be proven easily that it is one of the most popular (sales records, quantity of discussions regarding the game, quantity of information available online) it cannot be proven that it is the MOST POPULAR as this is a subjective measure.
Entered as a discussion topic rather than immediate edit to prevent automatic revert for vandalism.
216.69.223.249 00:06, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The article was FA-passed with the word included. I don't think it's POV at all. It is fact that you can argue that FFVII is the most popular title in the series. Ergo, not POV. Axem Titanium 03:30, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bias in 3rd paragraph... 

message: Another problem rampant on this article is the seemingly poor citation no. 64 (Coming to America: The making of Final Fantasy VII and how Squaresoft conquered the RPG market).  How exactly can we rationale the use of a self published web page as a reliable source?  Let alone a self published web page that clearly states that not everything in it is true? Parjay ► Talk  22:35, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Another problem? What's the other one? Kariteh 22:40, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Is there any rationale for keeping that reference, that you know of?  It's used so many times throughout the article, and I can't see it being reliable (since it also states, itself, that it isn't reliable). (Edit: the other problems are noted on the article itself with tags, plot, updates, etc.)Parjay ► Talk  22:44, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That article's sources are no better than anyone's. It does not state that it is unreliable, only that certain reports conflicted with each other. Thus, the author did his best to present a contiguous account of the process. If you have a better reference, go add it. Axem Titanium 22:52, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: But does it really meet the WP:RS criteria? It seems the author acknowledges that he sometimes arbitrarily (=Original research?) chose one statement over another because of conflicting accounts. Kariteh 22:55, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Regardless, under wiki's guidlines for reliable sources, no.64 clearly is not.  Also, the writer of said article states that because of the conflicts "I do not claim that everything in this paper is true"; obviously such material cannot be used as a reliable source, especially on a featured article!(Whoever passes these articles needs shot).  I'll remove them and replace with citation requests. Parjay ► Talk  22:59, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Poor citation problem 

message: ok, im back from my wikihiatus in 1 week and shall address all of that ^^^ when i have some time. i plan to put sources and cites into my old plot summary and i will comment on the above arguments in the near future. just thought id let u all know cause u all care so much about my life :P --Kiran 06:56, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: rewrite

message: I was on the List of PlayStation 3 games article and they mentioned a new Final Fantasy VII game called Endless Crisis: Final Fantasy VII. Should we mention this in the article so people will know? Ryu-chan (Talk | Contributions) 19:37, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow, seems like a really emo title. Anyway, the "source" given is so laughably speculative that I would probably discount it until TGS actually rolls around. Wikipedia is not a rumor mill. Axem Titanium 22:11, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: well then should it be on the List of PlayStation 3 games then? Kiran 12:20, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If there is a source the game really does exist..or at least mentioned by an official source. — Blue。 12:54, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Endless Crisis

message: User:Misza13 deleted Image:ACE3pamphlet.JPG, so I removed the link. Taric25 05:49, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gaia reference 

message: I assume that, although the moving of the overly massive setting section was appropriate in my opinion, there is going to be a new Setting section that is one to two paragraphs long to replace it? Judgesurreal777 20:18, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yay, excellent! Judgesurreal777 22:03, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Massively multiplayer online Setting section. MMOSS. Hahaha. Yeah, so I put back in the first two paragraphs because leaving them completely out looked weird and they seemed to fit. Axem Titanium 22:21, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Setting section

message: The article looks vandalized as of 12/1/07 11:35 mountain time. I don't know enough about ffVII to fix it. Someone please help!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.167.14.176 (talk) 06:37, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Reverted. — TKD::Talk 06:47, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  It looks vandalized 

message: Cloud is NOT the antagonist of the game, as some people have been saying in the article. Please, if you agree of disagree, post here Weirdude (talk) 05:47, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you still disagree, please just leave it as 'main character', it is correct, we all agree.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Weirdude (talk • contribs) 05:53, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ...you mean "protagonist"? An antagonist is the bad guy...—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 05:59, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Main Image Caption 

message: How come they're not mentioned?--Dr who1975 (talk) 03:21, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably since they are not notable per the whole article and have been covered in the Monsters of Final Fantasy article. — Blue。 03:29, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Emerald Weapon and Ruby Weapon

message: This is obviously fake, You can tell that she has been added via gameshark/action replay, it is obviously not an early screenshot becuase it is a screenshot of a computer playing the game with a playstaion emulator (toolbar is at top of screenshot) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Master22988 (talk • contribs) 
:If you'd read the article, it explains that the image is from "Square's Preview Extra", a special disk with an early beta version of the game which included Aeris. Axem Titanium (talk) 21:17, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Remove Screenshot of Areis in Starting Party 

message: :Image:Snowboarding Comparison.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 05:23, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed. --PresN (talk) 16:47, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Snowboarding Comparison.jpg

message: I note that a lot of these articles don't have any audio media. Of course, the music is under copyright, but we are allowed to use fair use samples. Given that the music is an important part of these games I would expect to see one or two music samples in articles like this (maybe battle theme and main theme, for example?). Richard001 (talk) 00:24, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, if you go to Music of Final Fantasy VII, you'll notice 4 sound samples.  All of the FF games have music pages associated with them, though of variable quality, from Start class to GA. --PresN (talk) 03:33, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, I see... Maybe one should be linked from here as well, e.g main theme. Many won't read all the sub-articles and might not realize there are any music samples available. Richard001 (talk) 05:44, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Audio

message: The story section is pretty long, as noted in the to do list. Would a separate article story of Final Fantasy VII be a possibility? If the characters and world are notable enough for their own sub-articles, shouldn't the story section be notable as well? It would certainly make it easier to reduce the size of the section here.
:Ah, looks like this has already been discussed. I would have thought there would at least be a few reliable sources that discuss the story of the game, though.
:By the way, while I'm here I might point out the lead could be a little longer. For such a long article 4 paragraphs would probably be in order. Richard001 (talk) 06:43, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Story

message: This seciont is quite out-dated, or just isn't covering much of the other merchandise produced by the series. Could we possibly tag it for expansion? Then again, I don't want to have two tags on just that one section. 68.209.235.149 (talk) 22:34, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added an expansion tag. Note that you can merge different tags with :Template:Article issues. FightingStreet (talk) 16:50, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow, that's handy. I wish I knew about this before. 68.209.235.149 (talk) 00:33, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Expansion of "Related media and merchandise" 

message: I strongly feel that the picture of Sephiroth killing Aeris needs to go.  I have only started playing it a few days ago, and did not know that happened in the game, so seeing that picture ruined what my friend calls "one of the best parts of the game"
Spoiler TEXT is easy to avoid, all you have to do is not read it.  But avoiding seeing a picture is a little harder.  I think that the picture should be removed so anybody else who hasn't played the game yet but wants to won't have that part of the storyline ruined for them.
The picture caption said it is one of the most shocking moments in video game history.  Not for me, and thanks a lot for ruining it wikipedia.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by EpsilonX2008 (talk • contribs) 14:13, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Please read WP:SPOILER. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a review site or a buying guide. If you don't want to know what happens in the game ahead of time, avoid reading the game's article on Wikipedia. That's akin to reading a walkthrough... Kariteh (talk) 15:15, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

text: Good grief, if you are playing an eleven year old game for the first time and expect to come to an encyclopedia article about the game and not be spoiled, then you have problems that wikipedia cannot solve.  Seriously, if you don't want spoilers, stay away from discussions of the game period. Indrian (talk) 23:38, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

text: No matter how much I look at the picture, I don't think people who never played the game before can get any serious spoiler from it.  A character stabbed another character, so what? To a new player, all they can conclude from the picture is that there is a scene like this, it reveals nothing important, not even her death, one cannot judge a character's death from a picture like this, when the characters are polygons and stabbing at a right place could be non lethal.  If a person started reading the words under the picture in the story section, they intentionally take the spoiler themselves.  MythSearchertalk 06:10, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

text: I would argue that it really isn't a spoiler anymore. It's like the twist in Empire Strikes Back. If you're looking up Final Fantasy VII, there is probably a 80% chance that you know Aeris/Aerith kicks the bucket. --PlasmaTwa2 08:29, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture of Sephiroth and Aeris 

message: There are a few tags on the page that say certain sections need to be updated with current information. In the characters section it makes some sense because there may be new information presented about characters in Crisis Core.  (I personally don't think any information from Crisis Core is necessary for this page, although if some info from Crisis Core is used, it should be kept to a minumum and should not contain spoilers for that game, marked or unmarked.) In the reception section, the tag doesn't seem to make any sense to me.  The release of Crisis Core should not effect the reception of FFVII. In short, do we need to do anything with these tags, or can they just be deleted? Chris3145 (talk) 12:07, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: New comments go at the bottom of the talk page. Anyway, the information in Reception stops at 2005 even though the game continued to win polls and awards after that date. This is why it needs to be updated. The section also needs to be restructured, because the difference between Reception and Legacy doesn't seem very clear (why is Dengeki mentioned in Legacy?). Kariteh (talk) 12:26, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Updates for Recent Information 

message: You should watch the FFVII movie then. A blast.! After almost a decade since Spirits Within. GUI are great and the design too. SquareEnix made history again.
--::semper fidelis:: 15:46, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Advent Children CG Movie 

message: The character section says it needs to be updated. But, as a reader I see nothing wrong.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.221.194 (talk) 09:59, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Updated comments from recent interviews, updated information about the Compilation of FFVII, recent character polls and awards, etc. Kariteh (talk) 10:47, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  What needs to be updated? 

message: There are too many tags, the one banner at the top covers most of the criticism and the rest just seem like over kill. --Realist2 (Come Speak To Me) 00:59, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: These article and section tags don't cover the same problems. Besides, some people still ask what the section tags are for (see discussions above) so replacing them by article-wide tags would probably be less useful. Kariteh (talk) 09:55, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm, ok, i still think its over kill, put if it gets people to sort the article out its probably worth it. Being a huge FF fan myself i decided to give the article a look, i only read the plot, its a little jumbly. I think you should write a plot in a sandbox together build up a solid story then brink it bsbk over here. --Realist2 (Come Speak To Me) 15:02, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too many tags 

message: Kitase did a new interview about FFVII in the latest issue of Level Magazine, according to . New interesting info include the fact that FFVII was originally intended to be a SNES game taking place in New York in 1999, etc. Has anyone got that magazine? Kariteh (talk) 15:20, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I filled in some citations in this section based on the links to NeoGAF.  They are actually from two separate interviews conducted nearly two years apart.  The first GAF post (5-06-2006 FFVII development background) says that the info is from the "premier" issue of Level, which would be Issue 1 from April 2006.  The interview from the second post (5-27-2008 New Yoshinori Kitase interview) says it comes from the "latest issue", which at the time would be Issue 25, May 2008.  Without a hard copy of each, I can't fill in the page numbers, but these are the original sources at least. Nall (talk) 22:41, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Development section update 

message: I'll take a look at it and respond here when finished.
:Didn't look bad. Some confusing syntax I tried to clean up. Pretty easy read, though. There are no major problems.Fdssdf (talk) 18:00, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the copy edit. It's greatly appreciated. The Prince (talk) 18:04, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Copy Editing