Talk:Che Guevara/Archive 8

message: Xe xe that response above is most amusing, it sounds as if Wikipedia is run by Dean Wormer of the movie "Animal House", with his  double secret codicles.  Well this most apt demonstration of a ban on internal consistency, supports my thesis that Wikipedia is frequently and selectively biased. If you want a better product you better do some of the work and look up the same reference as is cited, xe xe  El Jigue 9-22-06
Since nobody seems ready even to do the smallest bit of work or is it "... each according to his ability" (:>.  Here we go:
"he was a political polemicist who embraced Marxism and Communism, supporting the purges of Stalin and Mao. In the latter years of his life he marched in the streets for Third World liberation and exhausted himself intellectually in the hopeless task of reconciling existentialism, Marxism, and psychoanalysis." .   Or " Dopo l'adesione al comunismo, Sartre trascorse il resto della sua vita nel tentativo di riconciliare le idee esistenzialistiche con i principi del marxismo, convinto che le forze socio-economiche determinino il corso dell'esistenza umana." . Or perhaps "Sartre, Jean-Paul philosopher and hero of the French Resistance, lived an unconventional and full life defining and popularizing the existentialist philosophy that says humans are frighteningly free but responsible for the choices they make. (Phototheque Hachette) French thinker born in 1905, engagement philosopher, existentialist, writer and dramaturge, author of " Being and Nothingness ," "Huis Clos," " Les Mouches ," "Les Mains Sales," "La Nausee," "Critique of Dialectic Reason," and " Les Mots " for which he received, in 1960, the nobel prize that he declined; director of the forbidden "Cause du peuple" and " Liberation " until 1974. * He took part in the French Resistance and was taken prisoner in second world war.He joined the Communist Party (PC) because of the need to take an active part in the fight for the proletarian. *With Simone de Beauvoir , he traveled to Cuba China Russia Africa , to promote the revolutions." 
xe xe Now I will lay back and watch revisionists attack each point and then defying reason say Sartre was not a communist xe xe El Jigue 9-22-06
:Speaking of "double secret", what exactly is a codicle?  Is this a neologism you have invented to further confound the issue? 
:Returning to the subject of acceptable sources for Wikipedia, here is an excerpt from Wikipedia:Reliable sources that speaks to that topic:
::When reporting facts, Wikipedia articles should cite sources [2]. Wikipedia is a tertiary source. Wikipedia cannot cite itself as a source—that would be a self-reference. There is a wealth of reliable information in tertiary sources such as the Encyclopædia Britannica. Note that unsigned Encyclopædia Britannica, World Book, and Encarta articles are written by staff, who may not be experts, and the articles may therefore not have the same level of credibility, but they are regarded as reliable sources for Wikipedia's purposes. When wikipedians have the ambition to write a better encyclopedia entry than those extant [3], it does not suffice to rely on the content of such tertiary sources. Therefore, in general, as primary sources are also to be treated with caution (see above), secondary sources are the stock material on which Wikipedia articles depend for their references.
:Since the Encyclopædia Britannica is mentioned in Wikipedia:Reliable sources as an acceptable source for Wikipedia, I have read its article about Sartre and have extracted the following relevant statements about his political affiliation, which seems to have varied over time:
::"After World War II, Sartre took an active interest in French political movements, and his leanings to the left became more pronounced. He became an outspoken admirer of the Soviet Union, although he did not become a member of the Communist Party. In 1954 he visited the Soviet Union, Scandinavia, Africa, the United States, and Cuba. Upon the entry of Soviet tanks into Budapest in 1956, however, Sartre's hopes for communism were sadly crushed. He wrote in Les Temps Modernes a long article, “Le Fantôme de Staline,” that condemned both the Soviet intervention and the submission of the French Communist Party to the dictates of Moscow. Over the years this critical attitude opened the way to a form of “Sartrian Socialism” that would find its expression in a new major work, Critique de la raison dialectique (1960; Eng. trans., of the introduction only, under the title The Problem of Method, 1963; U.S. title, Search for a Method). Sartre set out to examine critically the Marxist dialectic and discovered that it was not livable in the Soviet form. Although he still believed that Marxism was the only philosophy for the current times, he conceded that it had become ossified and that, instead of adapting itself to particular situations, it compelled the particular to fit a predetermined universal. Whatever its fundamental, general principles, Marxism must learn to recognize the existential concrete circumstances that differ from one collectivity to another and to respect the individual freedom of man." -- Sartre, Jean-Paul. (2006). In Encyclopædia Britannica. Retrieved September 23, 2006, from Encyclopædia Britannica Online: http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-6428
:I find most interesting the statement in your 3rd source (above) to the effect that "He joined the Communist Party (PC) because of the need to take an active part in the fight for the proletarian." as it is in total opposition to what is written in the Wikipedia Sartre article, the Encyclopædia Britannica Online article and, in fact, all the other sources I have consulted.  I nevertheless suspect that it may be correct ...  -- Polaris999 05:56, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem you describe in the context of the Waters' translation is the reason I detest translations and prefer to quote  -- and link to -- original language texts whenever possible. -- Polaris999 17:36, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I've come to this belatedly, but… Granted that Sartre joined the Communist Party as a Resistance veteran at the time it was le parti des 75 000 fusillés, and was soon to become one of the parties in France's first post-war government. It was at least a contender for being the country's most prominent working class party of the time. Sartre was not a party activist. And the French Communist Party was not exactly a revolutionary force by the 1960s: they even opposed the uprisings of 1968. I don't see party affiliations being added to any of the other commentators cited in the article, and I don't think it would be appropriate to do so. - Jmabel | Talk 19:40, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The  double secret codicles of Wikipedia