Category talk:British MPs

message: __TOC__If we include every article on anyone who was ever an MP, won't this category become far too large to be of any use? Timrollpickering 12:37, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

message: It seems Mais oui! (talk • contribs) has gone ahead and subdivided according to home nation without any further discussion here. There was far from consensus for making this change.
Anyway, if the categories are named "English, Welsh, Scottish", shouldn't it be "Northern Irish" not "Northern Ireland"? There should also be an "Irish Constituencies" for pre-partition MPs. JRawle (Talk) 11:45, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have tagged all four new subcats for merging back into :Category:British MPs. Please join the discussion at Wikipedia:Categories for deletion#Category:British MPs Valiantis 18:10, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. Unfortunately, the editor in question seems to be on a mission to eliminate the word "British" from Wikipedia, which resulted in the excessively long category names. If people are thinking about the West Lothian question etc., perhaps we could have categories for current MPs representing Scottish and Welsh constituencies (e.g. :Category:MPs for Scottish constituencies. But they should all also remain in the category "British MPs". JRawle (Talk) 18:27, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  April 2006 

message: FYI: I have nominated the sub-categories of :Category:Members of the United Kingdom Parliament from Scottish constituencies for merging into their parent category: see
the CFM discussion. --BrownHairedGirl 15:03, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Now that the principle of dual classification has been accepted by User:Mais oui!, I have withdrawn the CFM. However, we really do need to do some work on restoring some order to this category: it was overlarge, but after various bits of subdivision, it's now a mess. --BrownHairedGirl 00:23, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  CFM for subcats of Scottish MPs 

message: This is logically the simplest of all the options: to have completely separate hierarchies for the pre-1707 parliaments, the GB parliament 1707-1800, and the UK parliament 1800-onwards.  I think it is broadly what mtiedmann initially proposed, above.
 
When I started writing, this was my by far my least favourite option, but the more I look at the subject, the more it seems to me to be the best.   It has two strong advantages: a) it maintains rigorous historical accuracy, and b) the terminology for Westminster parliaments can be unambiguous:
*English House of Commons (pre 1707)
*GB House of Commons (1707-1800)
*UK House of Commons (1801-onwards)
On the downside, it will require some careful explanation and monitoring when in use, because most people are not aware of the distinctions.  But it should be reasonably future-proof, because the logic doesn't require any tortuous explanation.
--BrownHairedGirl 13:09, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: UK-GB option 1: separate all

message: The GB parliament (1707-1800) and the UK Parliament (1801-present) are separate institutions. However, from reading the 1707 Act and the 1800 Act, it seems to me that there is slighty more commonality between them than between the GB parliament and the pre-1707 English parliament (although both UK & GB parls started with members co-opted from predecessor bodies, rather than with an election).
So I suggest treating the UK & GB parliaments as one parliament for the purposes of creating a container for all the other categories relating to those parliaments, and allowing a common nomenclature for the 18th century onwards.  The text on the category page should make it clear that this kludge is being used for convenience, and to prevent a multiplicity of hierarchies.
If this agreeable, then the classification by parliament (yes, I know that's not strictly speaking the correct terminology) would look something like the list below.  Some of the categories would merely be containers, but others would be populated, and I have placed the mark @#@ by the ones which I suggest should be populated:
*:Category:Members of the UK House of Commons
**(subcats of the last one) *
**:Category:Current members of the UK House of Commons  @#@
**:Category:Members of the UK House of Commons by Parliament
***:Category:Members of the House of Commons of Great Britain by Parliament
****:Category:Members of the 1st House of Commons of Great Britain  @#@
****:Category:Members of the 2nd House of Commons of Great Britain  @#@
****... and the rest of the series  @#@
***:Category:Members of the UK House of Commons by Parliament since 1801
****:Category:Members of the 1st UK House of Commons   @#@
****:Category:Members of the 2nd UK House of Commons   @#@
****... and the rest of the series  @#@
**:Category:Members of the UK House of Commons by political party   @#@
**:Category:Female members of the UK House of Commons  @#@
**:Category:Members of the UK House of Commons by constituency location
***(subcats of the last one)   @#@
--BrownHairedGirl 13:09, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: UK-GB Option 2: combine UK+GB

message: OK; when you are speaking about an MP in a general context, then referring to 'Freda Bloggs, Member of Parliament for Little Puddleton' is appropriate and normal since the full title is needed to clarify her position. However, under the heading 'Parliament of the United Kingdom' then the full title is clumsy and unnecessary and 'Freda Bloggs, Member for Little Puddleton' is all that is required. To provide an example of authoritative useage, in the Commons MPs are always referred to, when their title is used (putting aside the modern regrettable practice of using names :-)), in the short form 'Member for Little Puddleton' because, as here, the context does not require the longer version. BlueValour 03:29, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Member for ... 

message: FYI this list is up for AFD: . Thanks/wangi 10:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And it's gone. Phew! :) --BrownHairedGirl 07:06, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of members of the British Labour Party 

message: : purpose should be self-explanatory. Should assist anyone wanting to prioritise unstubbing current MPs. --BrownHairedGirl 19:06, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Now nominated for deletion, but nomination withdrawn. -BrownHairedGirl (talk)  • (contribs) 19:41, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New template:UK-current-MP-stub 

message: see CFD for category:MPs of the United Kingdom House of Commons, by Parliament and subcategories.  --BrownHairedGirl 17:00, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm about to close the CFD discussion, and I figured with this discussion going on here, I'd give an explantion as to my reasoning.  On any other CFD, I'd have given it a no consensus.  It seems people are split between deleting or renaming to a shorter name.  From what I've read here, you people aren't opposed to a rename.  I checked a few of the cats, and since they are empty, I'm just going to go ahead and delete them.  That will appease the people at CFD who wanted to delete the cats, and it will allow you all time to come up with a new naming scheme that will be more acceptable (shorter or whatever).  Technically, a category rename is just a delete and create anyway, I'm just leaving the "create" step to you.  I hope this works for you, and good luck with the rename.  --Kbdank71 18:53, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  CFD for MPs by Parliament 

message: For people interested in the format of succession boxes for MPs, I've put up a page at Wikipedia:WikiProject Succession Box Standardization/Guidelines. This is still preliminary, so feel free to add on or make changes. Choess 22:57, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems fine Choess. Not sure that we need to lay it down too tightly though as a bit of variation here and there may be useful. Galloglass 23:36, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Succession boxes 

message: I have created , for (as the name suggests) Members of the Parliament of Great Britain 1707–1800. I am slowly running through  to recategorise the the GB MPs.
(I created this a week ago, and should have announced it at the time.  Sorry!) --BrownHairedGirl (talk)  • (contribs) 11:03, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Parliament of Great Britain 

message: Hugh Fraser, 1st Baron Fraser of Allander was categorised under , but Rayment shows no sign that this guy was a  MP, so I have removed him from the category and commented him out in List of British MPs: F. --BrownHairedGirl (talk)  • (contribs) 11:17, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hugh Fraser, 1st Baron Fraser of Allander 

message: See Talk:List of British MPs#Rename_to_United_Kingdom.3F.
I suggest that the discussion (if any) should take place on that talk page, rather than here. --BrownHairedGirl (talk)  • (contribs) 15:41, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Now done: renamed to List of United Kingdom MPs. --BrownHairedGirl (talk)  • (contribs) 04:38, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rename the [[List of British MPs]]? 

message: Drawing on the discusions earlier this year (see above, #Proposed_restructuring and #New_hierarchy), I have largely completed the restructuring.
The first step was to create a new .  I then set about recategorising all the articles which were in : over 950 of them when I started.  Some belonged , some in , and most in one of the national UK categories, such as 
I finished that job yesterday, and have now created a new container category, , as a container for all the UK-Parliament-related subcategories.
Meanwhile, with other editors, I finished reinstating the subcats of . Some of these had been deleted after a CFD in August, but with the clear intention that they shoud be recreated with shorter names (see above, #CFD_for_MPs_by_Parliament).  That's now done; the new naming format is  rather than the previous over-verbose .
So we now have most of the structure discussed above: a clear separation of categories for MPs of the different parliaments, with subcats by nation (England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland 1801-1922, N. Ireland), by party and by parliament (the later categories need more work before they are fully populated, but I will put WP:AWB on the case).
As a result of this, I think that some renaming is now both possible and desirable, and before launching into a CFD, I thought it would be helpful to float my ideas here: see #Renaming_subcategories_after_restructuring, below. --BrownHairedGirl (talk)  • (contribs) 04:33, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Restructuring again, now largely done 

message: *Note: three CFDs currently underway:
**National sub-categories of Category:Members of the United Kingdom Parliament (replacing earlier withdrawn CFD at Category:Members of the United Kingdom Parliament from English constituencies)
**Category:British female MPs (the female MP categories have been nominated for deletion)
**Current British MPs and British MPs by political party. --BrownHairedGirl (talk)  • (contribs) 17:07, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Three CFDs

message: See Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 January 10#UK_MPs: a proposal to lengthen the names of the sub-categories of :Category:MPs of the United Kingdom House of Commons, by Parliament.
The sub-categories are currently of the form :Category:UK MPs 2001-2005; the current proposal is to change them all to the format :Category:United Kingdom Members of Parliament 2001–2005 (with an ndash as the hyphen). The short category names were created after problems caused by the earlier categories of the form :Category:MPs of the 49th UK Parliament (1983-1987): see discussion above.--BrownHairedGirl (talk)  • (contribs) 19:03, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  CFR 

message: See Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 May 22#Category:Current British MPs. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:32, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed deletion of Category:Current British MPs 

message: See Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 June 16#Members_of_the_United_Kingdom_Parliament. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:39, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed renaming of national subcats of Category:Members of the United Kingdom Parliament