Talk:Liberalism and radicalism in France

message: This is one of the worst pages I've ever seen. It is uninformative, confused, and reads like a high school report converted to bullet points. To repeat the several comments below, please delete this useless and entirely unfortunate entry.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.178.60.38 (talk) 02:54, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: May, 2010

message: Hum, this pages equates "liberals" with "radicaux". Although this might be true under the american understanding of the term, if we are talking about France, this page should be about the "liberaux".
:No, the page is about liberals in the international (not the american) meaning of the word (see Liberalism. In France this would include the radical tradition, so therefore the title includes radicalism. Gangulf 21:24, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: March 2005

message: For the reasons explained above, I've put a "disputed" tag. A few very problematic sentences:
*"Political liberalism in France was long associated more with the Orleanists and with Republicans in general," — no problem at all for the Orleanists (who were monarchists), but a very big problem for the Republicans. This sentence conflates liberalism with Republicanism, although these are two very different political ideologies. For ex., the French Liberals of the 19th century (Orleanists) were in favor of census suffrage, while the Republicanisms called for universal suffrage. The first were monarchists and the latter... Republicans. Etc. Liberalism in France in the 19th century was not democratic (opposed to universal suffrage, etc.). 
*"The French Radicals tend to be more statist than most European liberals, but share the liberal values on other issues, in particular a strong support for individual liberty and secularism, while Republicans were more keen to economic liberalism and less enthusiasm for secularism." Poorly formed sentence. Who the "Radicals" refer to here? and is Emile Combes, a Republican and a Radical, "not enthusiast for secularism"??? 
*"After World War II, the Republicans gathered in the liberal-conservative National Center of Independents and Peasants," So, the CNIP is Republican... should we assume the rest of the French politicians were supporters of Vichy France? 
*"In 1978 both the Republican Party (successor of the Independent Republicans) and the Radical Party were founding components, alongside with Democratic Centre, of the Union for French Democracy, an alliance of liberal and christian-democratic forces." So the French liberals are not so secular then... One could perhaps explain this by their belonging to the Orleanist monarchist tradition? 
Again, this article is highly problematic for the reasons lifted in the above section (beside the main body being absurd) because Liberalism & Radicalism were opposing forces in France in the 19th century, and indeed this was one of the main conflict going through the July Monarchy, the 1848 Revolutions and the French Second Republic and still during the French Third Republic. Adolphe Thiers's rallying to the Republic at the end of the century is the mark of the beginning of an understanding between Orleanists (i.e. Liberals) and the Republic, and this was a difficult deal indeed! Tazmaniacs 14:29, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: PS: I've deleted most of the WP:OR. Actually, I think this article should be deleted if not completely rewritten. Tazmaniacs 14:35, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disputed (factual inaccuracy)