Talk:Ethnocide

message: Both terms convey the same meaning, "ethnocide" seems more to the point and has been actively theorized as such (Robert Jaulin, etc.). Tazmaniacs 14:14, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Meowy. VartanM 01:31, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The "killing" is the killing of a culture through destruction of its artifacts. I can also point out the existence of the phrase and the concept of "white genocide", which refers to genocide committed without the shedding of any blood. Meowy 18:24, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Disagree. It is a well established scientific definition of a process of cultural elimination. Unlike genocide it does not cause harm onto human beings physically, but rather deteriorates their traditions, history, customs. A person forgets who he is - turning into a mankurt. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 20:16, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge [[cultural genocide]] here 

message: Jessiealexia
I do not  believe that cultural genocide should be merged with Ethnocide due to the fact that cultural genocide involves the assimilation of a an ethnic group through homocide, however ethnocide is the systematic  annihilation  of an ethnic group which does not physically contribute to murder but rather to destroy the customs and traditions of the specific group. Through the stated differences i would like to further explain ethnocide by going in depth by stating historical examples of the phrase through Canadian Indian residential school system as well as the issues in Rwanda.Jessiealexia (talk) 17:48, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Please note that the bulk of the discussion took place on the Cultural genocide talk page. There has been no consensus for the merge, and the discussion on the merge proposal died out quite some time ago. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 22:14, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: SSCI2831

message: The section "UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (2007)" contains the following unsourced statement:
"11 nations abstained, with four nations - Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the United States - voting against. Arguably, these four nations represent the current best practice in "indigenous affairs" despite their colonial histories and majority invader populations."
Please verify or correct this statement. (For example, please provide reliable sources verifying a majority of persons from these nations engaged in "invasion", specifically, that they were born outside the nation, and entered into the territory of said nation by force of arms.) Please also identify what is meant by the "current best practice" in "indigenous affairs", from a reliable source. Thanks! Katana0182 (talk) 23:18, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV and unclear statements in section: UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (2007); please verify, clarify, and/or correct. 

message: Please note that no previous consensus exist on merging cultural genocide and Ethnocide. --(comparingChinese Wikipedia vs Baidu Baike by hanteng) 08:24, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Note no previous consensus exist on merging [[cultural genocide]] and [[Ethnocide]]

message: Please note that  Genocide#Ethnocide does not exist anymore: 
--(comparingChinese Wikipedia vs Baidu Baike by hanteng) 03:54, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Note [[Genocide#Ethnocide]] does not exist anymore

message: In order to remove "original research content", I will move the texts without footnotes/citations here.
===text===
;intro
It may involve a linguicide, phenomenons of acculturation, or other cultural genocide practices, etc. Furthermore, by contrast with a genocide, an ethnocide is not necessarily intentional. However, unlike genocide, which has entered into international law, ethnocide remains primarily the province of ethnologists, who have not yet settled on a single cohesive meaning for the term.
;word origin
Subsequently, ethnocide has been used by some ethnologists to refer to a sub-type of genocide. While the United Nations' 1951 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide defines genocide as acts committed against "national, ethnical, racial or religious" groups, ethnocide, taken in this context, would refer only to crimes motivated by ethnicity.
Another definition in use in some writings suggests that ethnocide could refer to actions which do not lead directly to death or harm of living members of a group, but instead have the long-term effect of reducing birthrates, interfering with education or transmission of culture to future generations of a group, or erasing the group's existence or practices from the historical record. This usage is commonly found in discussions of oppressed indigenous peoples and is sometimes referred to as culturecide. Under the UN Convention, some of these practices could also overlap with legal definitions of genocide, such as prevention of births within a group or forcibly transferring the children of one ethnic group to another group.
Although international genocide law focuses primarily on direct violent and repressive actions, Lemkin, in his writings, considered genocide to be a crime above all others not only because of the numbers of persons killed or injured, but because genocide carried with it the intent to render entire, irreplaceable cultures extinct. The broader definition of ethnocide may be useful in addressing perceived shortcomings and restrictions of genocide law and in identifying cultural destruction when it occurs by less violent and less visible means.
;Robert Jaulin
Collective and arbitrary murder, systematic abduction of children to raise them away from their parent’s culture, active and degrading religious propaganda, forced work, expulsion from the homeland or compulsory abandonment of cultural habits and social structure, all these practices, described by Jaulin, have in common a deep despise for the other man and woman as representatives of a different cultural world.
Along with a detailed description and analysis of Bari’s case, La paix blanche is also a broad reflection on Western civilization’s tendency to ignore, lower and destroy other cultural worlds as it comes in touch with them, while extending its own domain, bringing the focus of the discussion back from the frontiers of Western civilization to its core and its history. As he takes his inquiry back in time, Jaulin shows that the way the West relates to other civilizations is a continuation of the way it has always related to its own inner cultural diversity, from the monotheistic exclusion of the representatives of different and differing cultural spaces (the “other” gods, divinities, entities, etc.) to its reinstatement under the successive garments of Reason, Revolution, Progress or Science.
A long reflection on the dynamics that led to worldwide ethnocide, its different “masks”, its history and, according to him, one of its earliest manifestations, monotheism, led Jaulin to a complete reappraisal of the phenomenal and conceptual fields polarized by the notion of ethnocide. 
This reassessment took its final shape in the 1995’s work, L’univers des totalitarismes : Essai d’ethnologie du “non-être” (in free translation: "The Universe of Totalitarianisms: An Ethnological Essay on “Non-Being”"). In this book, the notion of “totalitarianism” (which should not be mistaken for Hannah Arendt’s concept of totalitarianism) depicts the underlying dynamics of which ethnocide becomes a manifestation among others.
Jaulin defines totalitarianism as an abstract scheme or machine of non-relation to cultural otherness characterized by the expansion of "oneself " ("soi") through an election/exclusion logic. The totalitarian machine operates by splitting the universe into its own “agents” on the one side, and its “objects” on the other, whether they be individuals, families, groups, societies or whole civilizations. It proceeds by depriving the later of their quality of cultural subjects through the erosion and finally the suppression of their space of tradition and cultural invention, which mediates their relation with themselves, i.e. their reflexivity. With the mutilation of their “field of cultural potentialities”, as Jaulin calls it, the totalitarian dynamics transforms its “objects” into new “agents” of expansion, reduced to a mock self-relation defined by the horizon of a potential election. However, to become actual this election needs to articulate with a pole of exclusion; thus the need of a new expansion of this universe of non-relation, the universe of totalitarianisms, by definition an endlessly expanding universe whose theoretical limits paradoxically coincide with its own self-destruction.
The election/exclusion logics works by means of pairs of contradictory and, therefore, mutually exclusive terms. Their content may be as varied as the different semantic domains invested by the totalitarian machine: chosen/doomed, religion/magic, truth/falseness, literate/illiterate, savage/civilized, subject/object, intellectual/manual, proletarians/capitalists, science/illusion, subjectivity/objectivity, etc. In all these contradictory pairs, one of the poles “means” to occupy the whole field; but at the same time, its own meaning and “existence” depends on the virtually excluded pole.
According to Jaulin, the asymmetrical relation portrayed by these pairs is but the starting point of totalitarian movement, its static and temporary position. Its dynamics derives from the “wished for” or prospective inversion of the relation between its two poles. This may happen through the totalitarian pair defining the pre-existing situation, the design of a new one or, more often, through recovery and adaptation of old formulas.
The recovery of the Marxist proletarian/capitalistic contradictory pair or the even older monotheistic chosen/doomed couple by many independence or charismatic movements in the former European colonies as a means of inverting the pre-existing totalitarian field is an instance of the shifts through which the “totalitarian trajectory” reinvents itself. This example also shows the place of ethnocide within the overall totalitarian dynamics as the dialectical alternate to totalitarian inversion.
Such an inexorable and elementary logic, with its ability to migrate to, pervade and finally destroy ever-differing cultural and social worlds, accounts for the endlessly restarted trajectory of totalitarianism’s two-pole field through time and space.
===singed===
--(comparingChinese Wikipedia vs Baidu Baike by hanteng) 04:00, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: clean up 

message: --(comparingChinese Wikipedia vs Baidu Baike by hanteng) 04:00, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: singed

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Ethnocide. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20000408162107/http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/p_genoci.htm to http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/p_genoci.htm
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 18:15, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified