Talk:Xbox 360/Archive 3

message: The 360's GPU is a custom 512MB graphics card with 48-way pipelines,and 525Mhz clockspeed made by Microsoft&ATi. System's CPU runs at 512MB/s GDDR3 Ram (700Mhz). Total system memory bandwidth is 278GB/s a/sec. with 21.6 frontside bus,and 32GB/s backside bus, 10.8GB/s southbridge memory up&downstream. Total TFLOPS is 115.2TFLOPS. Which makes the graphics and computer much powerful than any high end PC to date, and the 360 is exactly what people want to see in graphics,memory,CPU's,entertainment,online,etc. seven years from now. It has the exact mathmematics of a supercomputer easily. With real-time graphics that look 3x better than ps3's CGI, what more could you ask for from this multi-media machine. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.69.139.13 (talk • contribs) 
:I agree (but opinions don't matter, the facts are right there). The Xbox 360 is a supercomputer, at least by its technical specifications. If only Microsoft marketed it as a "regular" PC and gave it some killer OS software, it would be a huge development for computing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.208.17.115 (talk • contribs) 
::More powerful than any high end PC to date?  What people want seven years from now?  Yeesh, tone it down a little.  There are many areas of the XBox 360 that do not match up with a modern PC, though there are of course many areas where it competes quite well.  In seven years, though, the XBox 360 will certainly be very outdated. --Yamla 18:10, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Now that I've double-checked, the total theoretical speed of the CPU is approximately 115 GFLOPS (not 115.2 TFLOPS, as claimed above).  Compare this to the information given in the Supercomputer article and you will find that this is theoretically equivalent, though slower than, a supercomputer from 1994.  Impressive, certainly, but much less than one one-thousandth the power of a modern high-end supercomputer.  And remember, this measure of floating-point performance of the CPU is theoretical.  Most of the first round of games will only use a single core.  Even a program making efficient use of every single core is unlikely to hit 115.2 GFLOPS on the XBox360.  --Yamla 20:01, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  System Bandwidth 

message: As I recall, the X360 XDK is using a customized DirectX API, thus comparison with DirectX version seems pointless.  And that DirectX 10 would be renamed as WFG when Vista is out, I believe.  Any comments? 71.109.0.182 23:09, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  GPU and DirectX support 

message: In the time article on Xbox 360 there is a quote from Bill Gates that gave the impression that Halo 3 was comming out on the PS3's release date. It might be important to note that Microsoft made a retraction notice.
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=61132 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Grzesik (talk • contribs) 
:It's not a retraction notice per se, more of a clarification. I've added a link to your source in the main article. --anetode¹ ² ³ 02:55, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Time Article 

message: user Mateusc  created the xbox 360 SOD page and linked it to this article at the bottom, i dont think it warrents its own page and should be merged/ added somehow to this article.Tik 21:24, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Since the Xbox360 is based on the Microsoft Windows kernel, wouldn't the information fit better at BSoD? --anetode¹ ² ³ 22:24, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Remove and merge xbox screen of death link

message: I really don't have an interest in the Xbox 360 or video games in general, but I found myself across the street from Tokyo's Xbox 360 Lounge on Sunday night, and tried out my new HDV camcorder on it. Some frame captures are below, if anyone thinks they're appropriate for the article
Image:Xboxlounge1.JPEG|Xbox 360 Lounge in Tokyo, Japan
Image:Xboxlounge2.JPEG|Xbox 360 Lounge in Tokyo, Japan
Image:Xboxlounge3.JPEG|Xbox 360 Lounge in Tokyo, Japan
Image:Xboxlounge4.JPEG|Xbox 360 Lounge in Tokyo, Japan
Image:Xboxlounge5.JPEG|Xbox 360 Lounge in Tokyo, Japan
--Calton | Talk 20:52, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: That's pretty cool. Kinda wish they'd add one to Tampa, Florida. CanesOL79 18:51, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Xbox 360 Lounge pics

message: Great works on the articles boys (is there a girl?) 
:anyway, good job
:Although, lets just say i am a customer, who is looking for info on xbox360, me browsing thorugh wiki, and searched for "xbox 360"
:Luckliy i got what i wanted, now to look for all information i need,
:Looking at that articles, seems like reading a newspaper, i need something easy, so i can read the information without scroll down
:The task for you guys (girls?) is to pack the information together, like pack it in a box
*The images, are just packed everywhere, why don't you all add them to the Image Gallery
*Some information needs to be seperated into another article, for less Contents
*The pricing and Packaging, shouldn't that be in a different article? like Chrome/Prenuim/Xbox 360 and Core System, Prices for each they should be togethr in another article, so people can know what the differences instead of packing all information just in one article
*The componements and Acceroies, should also be in a seprate article (remember ariticles are kb, accept the lenght/data packed in the article) so don't be afriad to do to many, do has much has you like.
*The "Hardware specifications-Viral advertising and alternate reality games" can stay. Remember the article says Xbox 360, it has to be about the name and console, and Components and accessories, or anything outside xbox360 should be a link to the article
Rememer, always listen to what the customer says, to make a better improvments.
:if you don't listen to me...fine it's cool
>x<ino 03:14, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clean Up!? 

message: What's the total number of registers in the xbox360? the article states:
*Two hardware threads per core; six total.
*128 VMX-128 registers per hardware thread.
So is that 6 * 128 = 786? What ever the case it needs to be clarified. 68.183.29.123 18:10, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: There is also a set of floating point registers per thread. Suffice to say that the total number is pretty large. --anetode?? 02:59, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Who actually gives a damn about these useless specifications anyway? Do people say "I want an Xbox 360 because it has 768 VMX-128 registers"? --Optichan 18:57, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

text: The VMX-128 unit contains a 128×128 register file (128 registers, each 128 bits wide).  One VMX-128 execution unit per core times 128 registers is 384 vector registers.  Note that this is not the total number of registers in the CPU, just those used exclusively by the 360's SIMD units.  I've clarified this a bit in the article. -- uberpenguin 14:29, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, for anyone who wants a reference for this justification, Jeff Brown's presentation at the last Fall Processor forum (titled "Application Customized CPU Design for Microsoft XBOX 360" ) is very good since it is directly from the lead IBM engineer on the Xenon project, and hasn't been systematically filtered through Microsoft's marketing and a thousand fanboy sites.  Some of the highlights were posted by Brown on this blog.  Scan the section on the design of VMX-128 briefly; it makes it pretty clear that each unit only has one register file.  I'd definitely go by the engineer's reports rather than MS' confusing press release. -- uberpenguin 14:44, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number of Registers? 

message: Is there any point of this?  Come on, tell me that you can just walk into a store and buy one right here, right now.  If not, then there you go.  This thing sells like hot cakes, MS will probably ship under the projected 2.5~3 mil units in the first 90 days, now tell me, is there any business sense to do a "fake undersupply?"  You try to sell as many as possible to get ahead of competitors.
how often is hardware said to be undersupplied and it turns out not to be? other than the PSP launch (but it wasn't AS touted as undersupplied, IIRC, as the xbox 360 is being...) i pulled up no articles googling the topic. well, not under the search "xbox 360" fake undersupply. any other thoughts, search ideas, sources? Plonk420 07:24, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: "Fake undersupply" is a method used to inflate demand. When done correctly, this marketing tactic can realy help increase the demand for a given product (see below under "Inflate Demand"). So YES, there is some business sense in it (when done correctly). As for Microsoft doing it on purpose or not, I (and perhaps no one) will be able to tell at least for now. But what I find funny is that Microsoft says that no one will get prefferential or "VIP" access to Xboxes 360, and that even the Microsoft directors will have to pay to get their own XBoxes 360 (so, what if they do? I don't care). However, if you go to the Microsoft campus in the UK (at Thames Valley, Reading), there are loads os Xboxes 360 sitting in the caffeteria. Again, I don't care if Balmer gets a Xbox 360 before me, but to say that not even Balmer will get it in order to justify a shortage, whilst there are some Xboxes 360 lying around in their campus, I find it amuzing... --Pinnecco 12:15, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Faked Undersupply 

message: Is it ok to put a link up to the site http://www.xbox360degrees.com/ the site seems to be kept up to date, and has helpful and useful news. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kittydog17 (talk • contribs) 
:It is sometimes appropriate (see WP:EL for more information) to put up as many as one such site.  Please justify why this article should link to xbox360degrees and not to any of the other sites that fit into the same category.  --Yamla 00:09, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Well from my experience of using the site it does seem very quick with news, they have recently put up the list of backwards compatible games, and the confirmed launch titles, the news seems very regular and informative, I just felt that it was looked after enough to have the privilege to get a place on the Xbox 360 page on wikipedia --Kittydog17 07:34, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Xbox 360 Degrees 

message: Important: 4 hours before the MTV program in United States the OurColony just placed the final challenge that reveal this Xbox 360 video. --Mateusc 23:19, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Xbox 360 was officially unveiled... 

message: Why points inside brackets? IMHO this isn't grammatically correct.
--KuSh 08:56, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grammar changes 

message: I have uploaded the image . This is an image of the R500 Graphics Processing Unit of the Xbox 360. Can someone change the image size and correctly insert it into the picture? Thanks. --CanesOL79 15:29, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The image has been cropped, inserted in the article, and relicensed. --anetode?? 16:06, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Graphics Chip Picture 

message: At IGN, they showed the real picture of the xbox remote, it doesnt look like this, this is a protoype
:the real one, looks Universal, please look to it
:both pad an;t the same, the real on has something at the bottom middle, and some glowing green lights, while the one you got on this article is plain
>x<ino 02:48, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Universal Remote 

message: I've totally redone the "Retail configurations and pricing" and "Launch titles" using tables.  It better shows the comparisons, and I hope it doesn't make the code too difficult to read.  violet/riga (t) 23:43, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: great works on that >x<ino 05:01, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tables 

message: Anyone know what's up with that? — Ilγαηερ (Tαlκ) 00:37, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: it isn't down to me >x<ino 02:09, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It is down for me. I am guessing a lot of people want more information because it was recently released and also it is to be released in other regions soon. --Thorpe 20:50, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Xbox.com is down 

message: Maybe it’s a good thing to have this kind of information available. For a user his/her wikipedia goal for this specific subject, is to find out what the Xbox 360 is and if he/she will buy it or not. I was able to find a couple of topics on the internet about this subject.
At ign.com I found these two topics: 10 reasons , 10 reasons  and pc .ShotokanTuning 13:10, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Freedom and Microsoft? Lol, don’t make me laugh that’s the worst example ever. The topic about the pc games is very interesting. How come some of the reasons at Xbox 360 actually root against the Xbox 360 if you think them trough? I demand better reasons to buy a Xbox 360 and I want them now! Or I’ll wait until the PS3 comes out (hoping Xbox 360 has a few games worth playing by that time…) and make a decision. I won’t just make a wild move like last time with the Xbox... Don’t tell me that GTA4 rumor is true!137.120.12.17 13:13, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, I wasn’t able to find better reasons why to buy the Xbox 360, maybe somebody else had more luck? Thanks. The GTA team had a bias for Sony, why would that change? GTA never was that good anyways, it's only by GTA3 they got the hang of things, maybe GTA4 is nice.ShotokanTuning 13:17, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  10 reasons why to buy Xbox 360 and 10 reasons why not to buy Xbox 360 

message: Anyone want to put in some details about shortages, errors and robbery of Xbox 360s? Not looking so good.
Xbox 360 has rocky start at retail —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thorpe (talk • contribs) 
:XBOX 360 bloggers swamp the web...Microsoft XBOX 360 Blog —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.36.139.53 (talk • contribs) 
I live down the st from where a women got robbed at gunpoint for her 360 she was buying for her son for christmas on launch day, absolutely rediculous. the good news is that the store owner and employess pitched in to buy her a new one, good people exist in the world after all!! Tik 16:38, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  North American launch 

message: Should this page be locked due to the massive amounts of vandalism that are happening right at the launch date of the system? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.185.84.246  (talk • contribs) 
:I agree, After the "worst launch ever" section was added and deleted i think the page should be locked until things have calmed down. ~pure inuyasha —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pure inuyasha  (talk • contribs) 
::I strongly agree. The page should be cleaned up, then quickly locked. The vandalism is out of control. - RedHotHeat 17:09, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lock the Page 

message: The list is unbelivably long, and please keep in mind that Wikipedia is not a link depository. I have allready removed many of the links, but the whole "futher reading" is huge and should be toned down a lot. Havok (T/C) 09:40, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  External Links 

message: The official name for their first console was "XBOX" (note the capitalisation) as mentioned in the documentation which came with the console.
Is the official name for this new one actually "Xbox 360", or are people on Wikipedia just mangling the name to make it look "better"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.50.55.251 (talk • contribs) 
:Actually, it seems it does not make any difference. Note how Microsoft refers to both XBOX 360 and Xbox 360 . -- ReyBrujo 01:25, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: "XBOX 360" is just the logo for it. I'm taking graphic design and logos and stuff in school, and one of the things they teach us is to make the name stand out, and if there is a logo, don't use lowercase lettering. Same applies for Xbox 360. --CanesOL79 05:23, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Official name 

message: Dead or Alive is not going to launch in Japan. Someone please fix that.
Wisnodew 02:32, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: we need proof, resources, backupinfo or link to the site stating it, an article stating it or news >x<ino 03:20, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Just read it through RSS.  It seems it will debut on December 17 instead. -- ReyBrujo 03:46, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

text: I assume that this means it can be removed from the list? I'll do it. --Sum0 20:52, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead or Alive 

message: I've asked this before, but now that it's out, could someone fill in this table below with  and  to tell me what X360 can and can't do? I'm not saying to use it for the article or anything though. Even if you only know one, fill it in.
               	Windows XP	Windows Media Center 2005
Stream Video   	          	
Stream Audio   	          	
Copy Audio from	          	
Copy Video from	          	
Copy Audio to  	          	
::- RedHotHeat 16:26, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps this would be better suited in the Reference desk — Ilγαηερ (Tαlκ) 03:58, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  A great idea! --Brazil4Linux 02:04, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

text:  (In case anyone else is wondering I know the above answers now) Assuming you mean wmv, then unfortunately no. I have tried this and it refused to play (I think). Actually I can't remember for sure if I tried a CD so I will now. - RHeodt 12:05, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Connectivity 

message: Is it possible to record TV shows to the xbox 360 hard drive? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.252.72.10 (talk • contribs) 
It depends. If the xbox 360 can record video games, yes it can record tv shows, but you need to start buying connection cables & wires:P
>x<ino 11:19, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  LOL, you are kidding right? my god.. LOL --Brazil4Linux 01:58, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

text: No, the Xbox 360 can't record your TV shows, though it does function as a Media Center Extender. Meaning that, if you have a Windows Media Center PC with the proper connections, you can record TV onto your PC and later play it back on your TV using the Xbox 360, along with any other videos you might have on your PC in compatible formats. Without a Media Center PC you are only able to stream Music and Pictures to the 360.--Arcaynn 19:58, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Record from your TV? 

message: On the opening day of the Xbox 360 Lounge in Japan, one guest (a pop singer, will get his name if it's important) invited to the opening ceremony got hit in the head by a standing light fixture that somehow fell down. He got a bump on his head and it wasn't serious. Should this information be included or would this be too trivial? Some people will take this as a bad omen. --Revth 01:57, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think is more interesting talk about PGR3 crashes. And Final Fantasy XII waiting by the 99.8% by japaneses gamers. --Brazil4Linux 02:02, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that's too trivial, Revth.  The fact that no RPGs will be in the Japanese launch, and that Ninety Nine Nights has been delayed until Spring 06, is more pertinent.  Dionyseus 10:45, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Xbox 360 Lounge Accident 

message: I removed the small section on Burn-in, as this is a universal happening in all CRTs and any other type of display that I know of. It is not isolated to the 360 and I do not believe has a place in this article. --Arcaynn 07:14, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Burn-in certainly DOES occur in CRTs; I have several lying around here with very severe burn in.  Newer ones are much harder to burn in than the old green phosphor screens used in dumb terminals, but it can still happen. -- uberpenguin 20:53, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Burn in 

message: I've again removed the section on "Project Light Flame" since it is nothing but a minor rumour at this time.  The section references this article on some console game fan site (herein lies credibility flag number 1).  The site states that some other site has found some sort of evidence (nature unspecified) of the described campaign.  It also cites yet a third site as ITS source (third-hand information? credibility flag number 2).  Visiting the third-hand source that the '360monster' site cites, we find this notice "EDIT: It has emerged that shortly after we published this article, 1UP.com removed the source from their website. No reason was given; although subsequent reports suggest questions surrounding the validity of their source. We apologise for any confusion."    This (third hand) site now reports that the (second hand) site has taken down the original information because of "questions surrounding (its) validity."  Ladies and gentlemen, kind sirs, this is what is known as an internet rumour.  Totally unverified information that is circulated on every single game-related blog is unfit for inclusion here until it can be verified by a reputable news source (and is one good reason not to even use blogs as a source for an article).
See how much trouble and dialogue we could have saved if everybody kindly checked their sources and attempted to only use first-hand sources from reputable news outlets? -- uberpenguin 04:11, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I must say that, according to Wikipedia inclusion policy, The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. So, even if it is a wild rumour, if it can be verified by visiting a site like 1Up or IGN, it can be accepted into Wikipedia. I am not referring to this article in particular, but as a general rule. -- ReyBrujo 13:01, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, of course, but balance this information with the suggestions in Wikipedia:Reliable sources and my point still stands. -- uberpenguin 13:15, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I never disagreed with your point. I was just saying that if the "Project Light Flame" is stated in IGN as a fact, or if they suddenly say something wild like that you will be able to download Zelda games from the Xbox Marketplace, since it is a reliable source and is verifiable by going to an IGN link, it can be included in the article. Just wanted to prevent a generalization by others that might read these comments. -- ReyBrujo 13:48, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: IGN is still, AFAIK, always a second-hand source.  If IGN is reporting on a verifiable story that has a trustworthy cited source like a company press release, then of course that information can be added here.  However, the source cited here should be the original press release and not IGN's reporting on it. -- uberpenguin 21:48, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rumours and WikiPedia 

message: Just how many editorials, fan sites, blogs, and game news sites do we need to link?  According to policy (Wikipedia:External_links), we really should only be linking to one notable editorial dump/fansite/blog/game review site, not ten.  My personal feeling is that these links are unneccessary in the first place since one doesn't have to go far out of their way to find one of the bajillion gaming related blog-o-editorial-sites out there.  Of course this is contestable, but I'd like to see at least some discussion on what site in this category SHOULD be linked and why, rather than simply tolerating a big mess of various sites with almost identical content.  In general, we want to include links that provide a significant informative experience beyond what we can cover here, and endless editorials about one person's view of a console and/or the ever-dreaded ill conceived and poorly backed console comparisons just don't qualify as a "significant informative experience" in my mind.  Therefore, I've removed most of the external links section and left only what I felt are really worthwhile reading and actually relevant to this subject matter (i.e., not just one of the plethora of general game culture and game review sites).  I've also added a link to an IBM DeveloperWorks article that provides a useful (albeit regrettably basic) overview of the design of the Xbox 360 CPU.  I left the "Related gaming articles" section in tact largely because I didn't want to cause anybody too much mental shock, but I think its contents should likewise be evaluated.
Comments are appreciated.  Remember that Wikipedia articles aren't directories or link dumps, so any links we consider adding should have their value critically examined before they are included in the article. -- uberpenguin 14:57, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links section 

message: http://www.johnporcaro.com/
He is a marketing manager for the 360. It has some interesting info, might be good to incorporate some info in the wiki, or use it to substantiate/cite facts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.118.109.76 (talk • contribs) 
:After reading through it, no. When he gets fired for incompetence in trying to sell Xbox 360 to Japan, yes. -- Revth 13:04, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  John Porcaro's blog 

message: The article makes mention of a Japanese price cut to ~$100 implying this is due to poor demand. Whilst it does rightly mention that this price was tied to a 2-year broadband deal, it fails to note that this kind of deal is quite common in Japan with all consoles. The pricing had little to do with demand. I would suggest that this comment be removed as it has little actual substance upon proper analysis and only served to provide an amusing news story for certain websites that catered to anti-Microsoft readerships. -- Walshicus 29/12/05 15:57 GMT
Instead of removing, it could just be added in that this behavior (about pricing and broadband deals) is common and does not reflect the popularity of the console. That would probably make it more NPOV. Also, i think the japanese have spoken for themselves about how much they like the console, there were plenty still left on store shelves on launch day. But honestly who can blame them, they got shafted with only a handful of games and some games that SHOULD have been available were not i.e. DOA4, if more had been provided then it probably would be a different story, i think though that with more releases 360 will fair better later on.Tik 14:11, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I already started to do that. If you look at the section you can see that I rewrote some of it. If you can come up with better wording please change it :) Seraphim 20:09, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Japanese Pricing 

message: Can we include Wiki360.net in the external links since it is mostly an extentsion (yet underdeveloped) of this page?  Linking it on wikipedia would give it more exposure and therefore more information would be added which would end up in a more detailed version of the wikipedia page.  It could also work as a community support thing as well. --AGruntsJaggon 10:09, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that would be rather tacky. Mark1 12:59, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Yeah, I agree with mark, why would wikipedia link to another wiki? SeraphimXI 05:18, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: For an extension/expansion of wikipedia's documentation. --AGruntsJaggon 09:25, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wiki360.net 

message: Obviously this is not a real technical issue, even the section says so.  But it needs to be adressed in the article because it is an issue with the system, however a general critizism section might get too messy. Anyone have any ideas? SeraphimXI 05:43, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: *I say create a section about what the box contents are, with a small descriptor about the power supply. To me it really doesn't seem very noteworthy.--Arcaynn 07:48, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It should include something about the Power supply needing to be off the floor and getting good ventilation to reduce the risk of overheating. --AGruntsJaggon 09:29, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Power supply section 

message: Article contains text Universal Media Remote: allows the user to play DVD movies and music - unclear whether this means you've got to have a universal media remote in order to play movies.  Don't know myself, truth be known.  Anyone know? --Oscarthecat 21:50, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You don't need the remote to play DVD movies. Seraphim 22:39, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, page updated. --Oscarthecat 22:42, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Dont need it, I play movies with the wireless controller all the time.  Also the bonus remote is different from the store sold remote.  I noticed the store ones have a number pad. --AGruntsJaggon 09:29, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Playing DVD movies 

message: Much of the text in the later sections of the article that refers to the launch of this console is in the future tense.  Sentences read "the console will support emulation of 200 games at launch," when they should read "the console supported emulation of 200 games at lanuch" or "the console currently supports emulation of 214 games."  I posted an "update" tag on the article to bring attention to this problem.
--Quintin3265 21:17, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Updating needed

message: The source cited for this sentence contains inaccurate information and uses out of context quotes to imply statements made by company officials were answers to questions not asked.  It is not an accurate source and should not be used.
Inaccurate NG source material:
"In a report in today's Financial Times, the company shifted its attention to the longer-term target outlined at CES last week. The firm now says it will hit sales of 4 million to 5.5 million by the end of its financial year, in June." 
Source quote inaccurately relays sales June sales target announced at CES as 4 million instead of 4.5 million.  There is no 4 million figure cited in the FT source article used by NG.  Transcript of CES speech cited by the NG article:
"Let's fast-forward to Xbox 360. We're quickly moving from thought leadership to market leadership. And tonight I'm pleased to announce that Xbox 360 achieved an unprecedented global launch for the world of videogame consoles. In the first 90 days we will have launched Xbox 360 in nearly 30 countries, and Xbox 360 is on track to ship between 4.5 and 5.5 million consoles by the end of June." 
The 4.5 to 5.5 million console target by June 2006 is not a revised target estimate.  Published articles can be found stating this target prior to the console's launch.  This quote was published November 8th, 2005:
"The 90-day sales target totals more than half of Microsoft’s target of selling between 4.5 and 5.5 million Xbox 360 consoles by the end of the current business year to June 2006." 
Other misc points of note:
* At no point does a Microsoft official acknowledge missing 90 day sales targets.  It cites analyst estimates, omission of a 90 day sentence in the CES speach, and the "shortage" as probable evidence of missing a 90 day sales target.
** "[Microsoft] is now expected to miss its target of shipping 2.75m-3m ..." 
** "Analysts estimate shipments at 1.3m worldwide by the end of 2005, with shortages predicted for January." 
** "...Microsoft did not reiterate its 90-day target..." 
* The NG article uses a quote from the FT article out of context, using it to imply that a Microsoft official was explaining why sales targets were being missed.  The FT source article contains a quote acknolwedging production "glitches", though no data is associated with the impact of those glitches.
** Out of context quote: 
::"Analysts believe sales of the console had hit around 1.3 million by the end of the Holiday sales period. But as January moves along, retailers have yet to see evidence of shortages easing."
::"Xbox 360 chief Peter Moore explained, 'Nothing's perfect - you've got a complex piece of hardware that includes1,700 different parts. Every now and again the line will slow down because something's happened and there'll be a component that didn't make it that morning.'"
** In context quote: 
::"'Celestica coming online makes us feel real good about our ability to do 4.5m to 5.5m, and June is important because it's our fiscal year,' he said."
::"'As interesting as data points of how many are shipped on launch day are, they're immaterial to the bigger picture of the life-cycle and the overall effect for Microsoft.'"
::"Mr Moore said there had been production glitches: 'Nothing's perfect - you've got a complex piece of hardware that's got 1,700 different parts in it, every now and again the line will slow down because something's happened and there'll be a component that didn't make it that morning.'"
::"But he insisted: 'That's just the way of the beast, particularly when you are ramping up factories from ground zero all the way up to full capacity.'"
* The addition of Celestica as a hardware manufacturer is not in reaction to a shortfall in production.  Celestica was cited as a third manufacturer as early as November 8th:
:"Microsoft has contracted with three electronics manufacturers to build the Xbox 360: Flextronics International Ltd, Wistron Inc, and Celestica Inc.  The Celestica plant is expected to come online in early 2006." 
As far as I can tell, all of the information cited from Microsoft officials has not changed since before the console launched.  As such, I don't see how a reasonable person could conclude that Microsoft is making any acknolwedgement that their 90 day targets have been missed.
24.18.202.92 12:05, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Be bold and change it. However, note that you can't put the Financial Times link directly, as it needs suscription and may not be a good reference. Maybe this link would be better instead of Next-Gen one? -- ReyBrujo 12:46, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re: Microsoft abandoning 90 day sales goals 

message: No idea where to request one or even to see if there is one, but would it be feasible to create a template to stick on Xbox game Wiki articles to say if they are backwards compatible or not? -- NeoDude0 04:20, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Backwards compatability Wiki-template? 

message: Where does the figure 337M come from?
We know the parent die is 232M transistors  - confirmed by ATi officially , but in a recent interview with ATi they said the daughter die was only 90M, which is likely an approximation .
100M was an old guess based on the DRAM taking 80M transistors, so the AA/logic may have taken another 20M. 322M is the best figure we have at this time, without official confirmation of the daughter die. ElWarri 07:18, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This very concerning, as ATI has gone on record saying that the daughter die has 90M, 100M and 105M transistors. I wish we could get an accurate figure on it. It would appear that at least 10,485,760 transistors (10.48M) would be required for the eDRAM, leaving 80-90M for logic? Perhaps the 90M figure excludes the transistors used for the eDRAM? --Thax 20:32, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry I just made a big mistake, I used bytes, so 83886080 bits which means that 83.88M is used for RAM leaving 6M-16M for logic. Anyone have a picture of the actual die to see surface areas? --Thax 20:37, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have found a picture of the die surface area, less than 1/2 half is devoted to the eDRAM. Although eDRAM is substantially more dense than the logic, it is unlikely that the logic is only 6M transistors. I am currently trying to get an authoratative response. --Thax 17:45, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The latest offical transistor count is still 105 million, that count comes from ATI engineering as per the following discussion: Beyond3D discussion. I will do some additional research, if I cannot find a more authoratative response then I will revert the transistor count back to 105 million. --Thax 18:25, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Alright, Daves word is good enough for me. ElWarri 00:45, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Transistor count 

message: This article needs a major audit.  Portions of it are well-written, but others are sloppy.  They lack consistent voice, are worded in an unencyclopedic fashion, or have spelling, grammatical, capitalization, or punctuation errors.  The worst sections are "Dashboard" (use of second person), Xbox Live, "Technical Issues" (which seems to be written as if it were a conversation describing how to fix all the problems), "Xbox 360, Linux and DRM", and "Modding the Xbox".—Kbolino 07:53, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you really believe so, tag it with . That should bring attention from normal editors immediately (nobody likes that tag ;)). -- ReyBrujo 16:00, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That "Modding the Xbox" section and the Linux section got dropped a few days ago, as part of an edit.  I've reinstated them because I feel it's a genuinely interesting section, and one that's likely to grow as time progresses, just like on the Xbox. Popped the inappropriate tone tag on, thanks for the tip. --Oscarthecat 14:43, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oscar the reason I dropped it was because it is pure speculation.  Right now there is no way to mod the xbox360 therefore the section is pointless since it's expected behavior.  If they do manage to mod the system then it will belong in the article. But not right now. Seraphim 21:10, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clean up 

message: Geez, does anyone know why the xbox360 was delayed for THREE WEEKS!
:So you have boxes on the shelves for more than 5 minutes.Seraphim 05:54, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  That's  not the point, I pre-booked it, screw all those people who didn't prebook. Zhanster 02:51, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Xbox delayed for aussies 

message: I'm suggesting to have a dedicated section for total sales data.  I don't think that's part of the original Xbox page, nor on the 360, but I think it should be included. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.109.0.182 (talk • contribs) 
: done.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.109.0.182 (talk • contribs) 
::If your going to suggest something, it's customary to wait for imput before adding it. The word suggestion implies that your suggesting that you add something, not are going to add it 30 minutes after you suggest it with no discussion. In the future just say that you added something :) Oh and sign your comments! Seraphim 03:04, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Sorry about that.  I was waiting for the discussion, but I suppose the sudden urge just got me.  71.109.0.182 09:17, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's ok :p I just got confused lol, looked at the article first, saw the section, then saw you wanting discussion here :p Seraphim 09:47, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adding Sales Data Section 

message: I do not believe that these sections do anything but add extra length to this article.  All game consoles use some sort of DRM system, ever since the NES came out and started require liscencing, it's expected behavior, if it did not use DRM then it would be notable and need to be included, the fact that it doesn't allow unsigned code to run is expected behavior and doesn't need to be included.
As of right now it is impossible to Mod the Xbox 360 there is nothing we could add to a section called "modding the xbox 360" since it is currently impossible.  The text that was in that section was xbox relevant not xbox 360 relevant, saying that it is possible to mod the xbox 1 is irrelevant in this article.
The kiosk booting was way overhyped. They never got any unsigned code to run on the systems using it, and now it's been fixed.  It's more like a random trivia question then a section in this article.
Once/if something is actually accomplished it will become relevant to this article.  But for now all this will become is a way of adding links to various hacking communities, since all they would need to be included in the article is to claim that they are working on it. I say we leave all this modding stuff out of the article untill there is actually some good content to add, instead of pure speculation which is not encyclopedic.
--SeraphimXI
:I thought the section interesting, having first seen details of the hacking attempts on BBC News .  If I am in the minority, fair enough, let's keep this hacking stuff out of the article.  I'm sure it only upsets Microsoft, and we don't want that. --Oscarthecat 22:20, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If anything it makes Microsoft happy, since the hackers have had access to the system for about 2 months now, and they still can't find any way to mod it.  Usually systems are modded almost instantly, and then the softmod comes later when they find an exploit.  IMO the fact that a system hasn't been hacked isn't news, since that's expected behavior.  It becomes noteworthy once the system is compromised. Seraphim 22:33, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Xbox360 Linux/DRM Modding and Kiosk Disc Boot section removal =

message: I wasn't too happy with how the intro sounded, so I chopped and changed it a bit, I personally think it's more 'introduction-like' now, explaining what the 360 is before it goes into when it was/is to be released. Third paragraph, the one detailing the two kinds of 360 packages, needs work, though, anyone is welcome to tackle it, or revert if you don't like the new style. By the way, the wired controllers have a break-away feature, what does that entail exactly, and should it be included? Riff 03:07, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If it's the old breakaway feature, it's a small connector designed to come apart with less force than it would take to slide/tip the console, and it can be reattached easily. Tehoretically meaning that if someone accidentally walks into a cable, it unsnaps and not only keeps your console safe, but usually can't exert enough force to actually trip someone (because it just comes apart). Gspawn 23:45, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Introduction Reconstruction 

message: Could someone, possibly whoever first wrote it, specify under what conditions the 360 was weighed? ie, was it with/without HDD? Don't know how heavy the HDD is, but specifying might be a good idea. Riff 08:16, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Physical Characteristics - 360's Weight 

message: A comment about how the requirement for custom soundtracks might affect the business model for music video games was removed for "cleanup". Why was this done? I've strengthened its wording and re-added it. If it was removed for a good reason, please say so, and I may stop reverting. --Damian Yerrick (☎) 14:59, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Although I'm not the one who removed it, I can see why it was.  The custom soundtrack will not affect games that rely on music, since developers can easily disable the custom soundtrack.  An example is the game Condemned: Criminal Origins.  At certain points in the game, the music plays a major part in the story and mood.  At those points, your custom music is shut off and replaced with the in-game music.  In fact, the "Select Music" option in the Xbox Guide is completely disabled.  This same method can be applied to games based on music - the developers can simply not allow it to be replaced. Defkkon 15:11, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

text: One comment I forgot to make - some Microsoft reps have been quoted as saying something along the lines of "Users can always replace the music in their games".  This is misleading, since as I mentioned, the developers can override this. Defkkon 15:15, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, so it would appear that Microsoft has backed down from its hardline stance. So has Microsoft publicly stated under what conditions it will approve a game that disables custom music? --Damian Yerrick (☎) 18:28, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Microsoft has never addressed under what conditions the music will be allowed - which leaves me to believe that its up to the discretion of the developers.  Technically, all games do support custom music since this is actually a function of the Xbox Guide, and not code within the game.  This is similar to the online chat abilities.  The game doesn't need to support the chat, since this is a function of the Guide.  Its simply up to the developers to decide whether they want to disable the music or not.  I'm sure Microsoft has guidelines or recommendations for developers, since they wouldn't want them disabling the custom music outright, unless it detracts from the gameplay.  Defkkon 18:49, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Developers have to add extra code to disable the custom soundtracks, unlike on the regular xbox where they had to add extra code to enable it.  MSFT's requirement is part of their liscencing requirements, unless the developers have a good reason for disabling the custom soundtracks microsoft won't let them distribute the game. Seraphim 21:07, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

text: By rocking out to Metallica during a crucial game moment, you might miss the tone of the scene or even be unable to hear parts altogether. This SHOULD be up to developers, and it is. This is similar to how Itagaki is still allowed to bind game saves to profiles- you can't transfer saved data in most Team Ninja games (console will refuse to copy to a memory card). This is mostly because Itagaki values how your accomplishments should be your own, so you're not allowed to import data. Again, something left up to the developer, as it should be (even if it is annoying somtimes). Gspawn 23:37, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Music games? 

message: Has anyone been able to find any reliable, non-spammy xbox 360 code sites?
I found this Xbox 360 cheats site but I'm looking for a few more that list all games.
Anyone know of any solid cheat code sites? 64.92.167.26 06:43, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reliable xbox 360 cheat sites 

message: Csmaster (as 128.62.82.24) wanted to add a link to  in the external links, but said he had trouble adding it to the talk page after I reverted their link addition.  Per Csmaster: I just added it because it is another great resource, similar to IGN and gamespot.  In my opinion, having IGN and Gamespot there already gives us enough examples of fansites...but figured I would assist them in adding a request in case someone felt differently.  Thanks! --Syrthiss 17:27, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Xbox 360 galaxy link... 

message: Apart from the above section "Comparing The two different versions" all issues have been resolved? The page is now very long and I suggest archiving it quite soon. o.k?HappyVR 17:59, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Page long suggest archive