Talk:Greyhound racing

message: Something should be included about the often inhumane treatment of greyhounds, praticularly in spain, as described here: http://www.greyhound-rescue-scotland.org.uk/Greyhound_Facts/body_greyhound_facts.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 00:22, 16 August 2004 (talk) 
:Please be carefull before you include wrong info in wikipedia! The  so called "FACT" is full of nonsense. Please go to Spain and verify it yourself.
:True is: Spain treats animals very badly. Galgos  (a local dog breed very similar to greyhound) are bred by local farmers are generally speaking treated VERY badly.
:True is: Spain imports Greyhounds to race them at the track. These greyhounds are kept and handled very good for Spain standards. Their life is comparable with Greys in the USA. However for US kennels climate controlled kennels are standard which is not the case in Spain. Gunnarvb — Preceding unsigned comment added by 09:12, 14 December 2004 (talk) 
::The truth as I've heard it from people doing rescue in Spain is that they get BOTH Galgos and  Greyhounds in terrible conditions into the rescue. Sure they owners deny it, but the people doing the rescue get Greyhounds in bad shape, there is a simple disconnect here, someone (or everyone) is lying, and I tend to find the people with pictures are lying less often then the people with the big check books on almost any issue (note: this theory doesn't apply to news agencies, nor is it absolute). --Ahc 21:06, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Inhumane treatment

message: Hi, I'm devoted to improve the Greyhound live. I'm working in adoption since some time.
Yes, the greyhound live is often hard. Some of the cruel stories we hear about Greyhound live are true. But many stories are not true and are over exaggerated. I think its importan for us not to spread rumors on Wikiepedia. The story about Spain for example is a mix of facts and lies.
I would love to help out with some fatcs, but I don't want to edit the Wikipedia page without discussing this first with the other editor here. What will be the best way to do this?
Please feel write to email me at gunnar@greyhound-data.com
Cheers Gunnarvb — Preceding undated comment added 09:53, 14 December 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Feel free to edit the page, as long as the goal is to improve the included information.  We can always take out the chages.  Of late the Greyhound articles have been pretty active, so mistakes by any of us don't sit around long.  --Ahc 14:24, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

text: The rather disjointed discussion you'll find above, is the leftovers from an attempted to find a nuetural balance between those that want to make it highly biased one way or the other.  That experience leads me to want to treat this issue with caution.  Can I suggest you highlite specific changes you want to see made, and we'll can discuss them a little first?  We certainly want to keep the bias minimized, but I'd rather avoid the contensious nature of the last discussion on the issue. --Ahc 13:57, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Myth and trues 

message: Could someone please define trainer as used in this context 
:In Ireland and the UK dogs are usually kept at a trainer.
I think it would be helpful to create a more complete discription to match the US discription. --Ahc 14:24, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Ireland UK clarification

message: As to the US centric issue, I would like to drive that bias out as best we can.  I tried to add the qualifier about gambling dogs (to deal with northern european non-professional racing), what else needs to change in your opinion. I'd be interested in knowing how UK and Irish dogs are kept by their trainer.  Are they in kenels? outdoor runs? comfy beds?  Since we want to make sure this article isn't about US racing only those details are important to include and are currently missing. --Ahc 21:06, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: US Centric issues with treatment

message: I find myself wanting more of the history of dog racing, number of tracks, money wagered, attendance. Even something as simple as the length of a lap, which I understand is 480m (525yd), is omitted.  Also, the links out are a bit general; if the article is "Greyhound Racing", shouldn't the link goto racing in U.S. or Oz, & N to the nation's "main page"?  Trekphiler 03:44, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: This is Wikipedia. Your suggestions sound good to me. Go for it. :-)  Elf | Talk 19:49, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Other information I'd like to see is how fast the dogs run, how many laps they run, whether male or female dogs are faster, how much faster greyhounds are compared to other dogs etc. I love the focus on animal welfare in this article, but this kind of stuff should be here too.--188.126.207.212 (talk) 02:20, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Cleanup?

message: Should there not be a section regarding the controversial nature of the sport (ie. animal rights being against it due to claims of cruelty)? I will add one if people don't mind. I am personally against greyhound racing but try to be npov on wikipedia - so would mention both sides of the argument and try to keep it balanced. -localzuk 01:49, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: See "Myth and trues" section above.  If you want to write a balanced addition, go ahead --rogerd 04:06, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm all for balanced coverage of the issue.  Please go look over the past discussions, and keep in mind that there are two other greyhound articles.  In the past we've moved some content about this issue to other articles, so some of the content you're thinking about may be elsewhere.  If there are good arguements for bringing it back, then please do so. --Ahc 05:49, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Controversy 

message: Greyhound racing in South Africa is illegal, yet South Africa is listed as a country where racing takes place.
This was tested in court during 2002. Here are links to the NSPCA's press releases concerning the issue:
*http://www.nspca.co.za/Media-Racing.htm
*http://www.nspca.co.za/Media-Judgements.htm
I'm editing and removing South Africa -- (MoHaG (not registered yet) 198.54.202.226 22:28, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the correction. --Ahc 14:12, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Greyhound racing in South Afica 

message: Hi, I just added some facts and figures to this, but would like to add my voice to the call for references to support the sentence about the sport's recent resurgence in popularity. I dispute this assertion; everything I've seen has indicated the opposite. See, for example, the HSUS link I put into that note. Unless real statistics can be put in here to support this sentence, I strongly believe it should be deleted./KatherineN KatherineN 21:35, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Given that this detail has been contests for several months, I'm going to remove it until someone can provide a reference. --Ahc 19:53, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Popularity

message: I'm kind of curious about the part under Medical Care where it states "the dogs from the tracks have tooth problems the cause of which is debated although it is likely related to either a low-quality raw meat diet or damage to the gums from chewing on metal cage bars." I think someone needs to find a reference for this. When greyhounds are kept as pets, their owners are encouraged to feed them a raw meat diet (I've seen one in particular called BARF, or "Biologically Appropriate Raw Food"). This has many advantages, and dental health is one of them. A raw meat diet should improve this, not compromise it. I'm not sure how true this is, but I think someone ought to look into it. Erick295 01:13, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Much of this article still needs better references.  I'll try to review the books around the house to provide sources on these claims.  The problem in my experience has been that it's very hard to pin these problems down since the best research tends to come either from NGAP or Greyhound Protection League or the racing industry.  Since NGAP and GPL want to vilify the racing industry, and the industry refuses to admit they could cause any trouble, making finding the truth hard.  I've heard people suggest BARFing as a way of improving dental health, although I've usually heard them suggest adding foods other than meat to help clean teeth, not the meat itself.  That said, we opted not to BARF our dog, so I’ve never look into the details carefully. --Ahc 13:37, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Treatment of racing dogs 

message: I've pulled the list of tracks in the UK since we've previously felt that such listings were too long to be helpful (see US States above).  I've copied them here, so if others disaggree we can replace them easily without having to revert any changes made in the mean time.  My sense is still that it makes sense to list localities that have racing, but not every track.  If someone wanted to start a List of Greyhound Tracks article, I think that would be fine. --Ahc 14:49, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Track Listing 

message: Hi. I'm not sure if this worthy of addition but it is my understanding that greyhound racing (in the UK at least) has set colours worn by the dogs depending on their position in the traps, rather than say the colour of the trainers (I think that's the horse-racing standard?). Any clarity on this? Also is it worth adding if there is a rule/reasoning behind it? ny156uk 19:22, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you can verify it, then it seems like information that should be included.  Sounds like you need to find a source to confirm it first. --Ahc 00:45, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Colours

message: I think this article needs to be totally re-written. It is supposed to be about Greyhound Racing yet it is completely dominated by information on the fate of dogs when they retire. There is hardly anything about the racing at all e.g. famous greyhounds, famous stadiums, the structure, rules and regulations of each country etc. One paragraph on this, many paragraphs on retired greyhounds. The fate of dogs when they retire is notable, but should surely be on it's own page.
Therefore i suggest a new page is created for treatment of retired greyhounds with just a single summary paragraph and link here, and this page is filled with information about Greyhound Racing itself. --Rcclh (talk) 09:18, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe an article on the leagility of greyhound racing, too?  I agree, the focus seems to be really off here. ♦ Flffy'd ♦ 03:33, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Article rewrite?

message: merge greyhound racing and greyhound racing in great britain. the way i see it the latter is redundent and should be merged. E123 (talk) 23:02, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  merge 

message: on what channel can i view the greyhound racing?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.123.189.137 (talk) 16:12, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  On what Channel? 

message: Readers of this article want to know: who was the fastest dog ever?  Is there some place on Wikipedia where one can find the records for different distances?  What's the top speed for a dog?  These things would make a fine addtion to this article and/or Wikipedia.  I think some of the long-distance records (sled dog racing) are available, but not for these sprint races.  Chrisrus (talk) 21:05, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  World Records? 

message: Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that :File:Greyhound Racing 2 amk.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on September 23, 2012. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2012-09-23. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page so Wikipedia doesn't look bad. :) Thanks! —howcheng  {chat} 10:25, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[:File:Greyhound Racing 2 amk.jpg]] to appear as POTD soon 

message: I have deleted this whole section as it had a host of problems. Much of the information was irrelevant to the topic of greyhound racing, detailing those who have owned greyhounds as pets, etc. Also the section - confusingly - mixed together real and fictional examples. Lastly, the references supporting what little useful information there might have been were not from reliable sources. Jellyman (talk) 21:56, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Celebrity owners 

message: Macau has a controversial racing scene (http://www.grey2kusa.org/pdf/3-30-14China.pdf), and  Vietnam has an active racing culture.211.225.33.104 (talk) 10:58, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Asia 

message: The latest changes, from Animal rights extremist groups into established animal welfare groups etc indicates that some editors of this article, have a political interest tp push their political viewpoint. Something to be alert on. Dan Koehl (talk) 16:47, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems clear to me that "Animal rights extremist groups" is not neutral language. Far from it. The word "established" may swing a bit in the opposite direction. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 05:28, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  Lately ARAs try to profile themsleves as some sort of animal welfare groups, and they have even succeeded in terms of media, which most often cant separate them. But for anyone with insigth, the difference is enormous. Animal_rights may try to hide their true agenda, that they are in general against any sort of captive keeping of other species, while animal welfare people fully accept that humans own and keep animals, but they are working for better condition of the animals, and tht owners follow laws and regulations. Slowly, the public start to realize this major difference, why ARAs now and then try to "look better" by changing links from animal rights people to established animal welfare groups, but this is just political manipulation. Most established animal welfare groups  does not sympahize with ARAs, and a couple of nature conservation organizations has officially stated on their websites that Animal_rights is not compatible with nature conservation. While animal welfare organsations work directly to help suffering animals, ARAs are more putting energy on politics. A lot of Wikipedia articles dealing with legal human use of animals, slowly gets the impression that different types of activities should be considered immoral, almost illegal etc.  ARAs are a political movement, often trying  to POV articles about animals, while animal welfare people mainly are just working for better condition for animals, without arguing for any rights for those animals, and logically also not arguing about animals responsibilities. ARAs are generally refered to as extremists, since they dont reflect the majority of humans, they tend to attack people, why certain laws had to be created, like the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act. It is wellnkown that PETA and other large animal rights organizations support smaller extremist groups with money, and the founder of PETA has officially declared opinions which are extreme. In a world, where humans legally buy, sell, own, and kill animals, the opinon that humans should be not be aloud to own animals, IS extreme. And ARAs lately dont want the public to know how extreme they are, why they try to make people believe they are just animal welfare people, since ARAs lately is associated with bad publicity, so they try to appear as if they are established (which they are not) and welfare people (which they are not). Something which is NOT very populair among welfare people, who, most often dont want to be mixed up with animal rights people at all.  Dan Koehl (talk) 02:43, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: In that lengthy section above, , you didn't furnish any reliable, independent source that describes any organization mentioned in this article as "extremist", or that verifies the hard-and-fast distinction between groups that you describe. Please climb down from your soap box and discuss how to improve this specific article rather than preaching your own personal analysis of much broader issues. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 03:24, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I linked to the articles Animal_rights and animal welfare where anyone can judge themselves, about the difference between them, and analyze why one type of those two types of organsations has an interest to be viewed as similair as the other one. Further on, I did not invent the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act, it is a Law of the United States which clearly prohibits any person from engaging in certain conduct for the purpose of damaging or interfering with the operations of an animal enterprise. Wikipedia is not an animal rights activists forum, and should be kept NPOV. Dan Koehl (talk) 03:35, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

text: Please either bring forth links to a wide range of reliable, independent sources calling these groups "extremist" or drop the use of a POV term like "extremist". Please provide links to statements on Greyhound racing from every group you mention, they should not be mentioned, . — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cullen328 (talk • contribs) 07:42, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

text: As declining attendance and betting figures show, the vast majority of "common people" worldwide know little or nothing about greyhound racing, and think of it rarely. But there is nothing in Wikipedia policies and guidelines that requires that "common people" be familiar with a controversy in order for it to be covered in this encyclopedia. The topic "Greyhound racing" indisputably includes a decades-long controversy which must be covered in this specific article. Your point about the quality of the sources is valid, but when we have intense edit warring by partisans on both sides, that is not a conducive environment for improving a neutral article that describes both points of view in an even-handed fashion. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 03:33, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I claim that the section, including the picture of a greyhound that looks pretty weird, has a political tendency, its not just neutral documentation. We dont know anything about that dog, if its giving litters during the picture, or if someone is making the dogs to look like that, (theres two human hands around the troat) or whatever, but what is clear, someone put that particualir picture in the article because of their agenda, the person wants us to believe that racing dogs in general suffer. Wikipedia should not be a political instrument, Wikipedia should describe all human activities out of a neutral  point of view. If any political group wants to change our opinion and ideas about legal and accepted human activities, Wikipedia is not the right place for this. If "Greyhound racing" indisputably includes a decades-long controversy which must be covered in this specific article, as you put it, then it should be sourced and verified according tothe policy rules. Dan Koehl (talk) 03:57, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Since you seem to be far more knowledgeable about the controversy than I am, I respectfully request that you bring forth some links to reliable independent sources to this discussion here, . I make the same challenge to those on the other side of the issue. What are the best sources, in respected mainstream publications, that discuss the greyhound racing controversy in depth, presenting both sides? Those should be the backbone of sourcing for the section. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 07:34, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV risk 

message: The capter claims various things without sources and citations, and theres no evidence that grayhound racing has been a source of controversy for commion people, while of course it has for animal rights people, who are basically against any human activity that involves animals in captivity.
The entire chapter is poorly backed up by sources, and figures like an estimated 3,000 greyhaounds are euthanised annually, are not compared with how many Germans hepherds, collies, Labradors, or cocker spaniels are euthanised annually. 
This article, like several oters which involves animals in captivity, needs clean-up, and a protection against political manipulation by POV. Dan Koehl (talk) 02:59, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: As declining attendance and betting figures show, the vast majority of "common people" worldwide know little or nothing about greyhound racing, and think of it rarely. But there is nothing in Wikipedia policies and guidelines that requires that "common people" be familiar with a controversy in order for it to be covered in this encyclopedia. The topic "Greyhound racing" indisputably includes a decades-long controversy which must be covered in this specific article. Your point about the quality of the sources is valid, but when we have intense edit warring by partisans on both sides, that is not a conducive environment for improving a neutral article that describes both points of view in an even-handed fashion. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 03:33, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I claim that the section, including the picture of a greyhound that looks pretty weird, has a political tendency, its not just neutral documentation. We dont know anything about that dog, if its giving litters during the picture, or if someone is making the dogs to look like that, (theres two human hands around the troat) or whatever, but what is clear, someone put that particualir picture in the article because of their agenda, the person wants us to believe that racing dogs in general suffer. Wikipedia should not be a political instrument, Wikipedia should describe all human activities out of a neutral  point of view. If any political group wants to change our opinion and ideas about legal and accepted human activities, Wikipedia is not the right place for this. If "Greyhound racing" indisputably includes a decades-long controversy which must be covered in this specific article, as you put it, then it should be sourced and verified according tothe policy rules. Dan Koehl (talk) 03:57, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Since you seem to be far more knowledgeable about the controversy than I am, I respectfully request that you bring forth some links to reliable independent sources to this discussion here, . I make the same challenge to those on the other side of the issue. What are the best sources, in respected mainstream publications, that discuss the greyhound racing controversy in depth, presenting both sides? Those should be the backbone of sourcing for the section. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 07:34, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: The Chapter Criticism

message: This is a significant subject for an article, but this article is a mess.  The first two paragraphs in the History section needed cleanup and repair.  They remain defective (see tags).  In the second paragraph "The deal went sour with Smith never hearing from Munn again" was deleted because it refers to missing context.  It sounds like the making of an anecdote, but whoever wrote it forgot the rest.
This subject deserves an editor with knowledge and writing ability. J M Rice (talk) 00:04, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  A mess from the start 

message: The page on this subject gives very little information about the sport? What is the rules? How long is the run and etc? --192.71.219.1 (talk) 08:18, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lacking information

message: Hi, the #15 footnote link to the article in The Times does not send you to the article, instead it sends you to a login page.
Here is the reference in question:
Mcdudeman (talk) 12:45, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead citation link 

message: I am interested in learning more about the mechanical lure. How does it work? What is the history? Perhaps it needs a section or separate article.
✤ JonHarder talk 13:32, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: That would be useful if you wish to write one. It may help you to know that in some countries this device is known as an Electric Hare. Britmax (talk) 22:49, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mechanical Lure 

message: * Greyhound racing to be banned in New South Wales, Baird Government announces
* NSW Justice department GREYHOUND RACING TO BE SHUT DOWN IN NSW
This is the report - in http://www.greyhoundracinginquiry.justice.nsw.gov.au/
The whole report on corruption and coverups in the NSW greyhound racing industry is 30+ chapters and 600+ pages.
Animal rights groups may have "extremists" in them - but that doesn't justify a POV tag - note that a 600+ page government report is not published by animal rights "extremists".
I'm going to take the POV tag off - the presence of a 600+ page government report meets WP:RS and WP:DUE.
-- Callinus (talk) 11:34, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: New South Wales has banned all greyhound racing from July 2017

message: The first sentence says greyhound racing is around a track. The second sentence says greyhound racing can be either around a track or not. This needs clarification—maybe it could be said that
:Greyhound racing is an organized, competitive sport in which greyhound dogs are raced around a track, or more broadly ....
Loraof (talk) 20:37, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  First two sentences are contradictory 

message: Is the intention of this article to cover only commercial greyhound racing? Much of the discussion seems to apply only in that case. For example the discussion on living conditions talks about kennels being kept at tracks, the map shows greyhound racing as illegal in WA state, and the "Today" section begins with "Commercial greyhound racing is characterized..." but never discussion anything else. But I checked the WA state law against greyhound racing and found it's actually a law about gambling and doesn't have anything to do with non commercial racing. The dogs involved in amateur racing are typically kept in homes with their owners and treated like any other pet, just one with a hobby. On the other hand the general title of the article and the introduction that says "In many countries greyhound racing is purely amateur and solely for enjoyment." make it seem like the article covers all greyhound racing. Given the strong bias in the article towards discussion of commercial gambling oriented racing I propose that the article be renamed to "commercial greyhound racing", the small number of mentions of non commercial racing be removed or adjusted to make it clear that the information is presented to contrast with the main point of the article, and any places where it's ambiguous it be made clear that the discussion refers to the dog racing industry only (possibly the other two changes would leave no ambiguous to be clarified). 216.113.160.82 (talk) 00:44, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I would say it is appropriate to expand the information about recreational racing (rather than narrow the focus of this article), if you have some references about it. The article mentions a course in Perth and that WA racing is regulated by the Western Australian Greyhound Racing Authority (WAGRA), but does not say (at present) that this does not permit gambling. Could you please improve the article with the information you have found? --Scott Davis Talk 04:04, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Commercial vs Recreational