Talk:The Monk

message: No longer a stub apparently though still invites expansion. Julia Rossi (talk) 11:50, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Comment

message: "It is also the first book to feature a priest as the villain." Schedoni, the villain in 'The Italian' by Ann Radcliffe, is also a priest. Both novels were publisched in 1796. Which one appeared first? --85.60.4.173 (talk) 15:02, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The Monk appeared first and was a direct influence on Radcliffe's The Italian. Colin4C (talk) 17:59, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Correction?

message: The whole section on 'Anti-Feminism' is absurdly anachronistic and written by some militant lefty. Lewis cannot be judged by the 21-st-century standards of PC. He is no more 'anti-feminist' than any 18th-century male writer and indeed less than many. The very fact that Agnes is seen by him as marriageable after having an illegitimate baby by other man than her would-be husband, is exteremely 'progressive' in the society where girls who had lost their virginity before marriage would be routinely jailed. Never read 'Tom Jones' by Fielding?212.13.96.18 (talk) 09:10, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  'Anti-Feminism' of Lewis - POV? 

message: The anti-feminist and gender sections are idiosyncratic academic readings, and shouldn't be presented as facts.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.215.254.235 (talk) 14:00, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Politics aside 

message: Isn't this novel chiefly significant for spawning the gothic genre (amongst various others?). I could have done with some more info on that.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.149.199.177 (talk) 19:19, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Influence 

message: The synopsis needs serious editing. A slew of ambiguous pronouns makes for very difficult reading. It's also rife with run-on sentences. Overall, it's very hard to follow. Ideally, this should be edited by someone familiar with the novel to ensure the correct meaning is retained because it's not always obvious. Tklow (talk) 03:46, 13 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Synopsis in need of serious editing 

message: I think this was wrong: Matilda was also the model for the Madonna painting that hangs in Ambrosio's room. The painting was the model for Matilda, according to this part of the text: "I [the Devil is speaking] observed your blind idolatry of the Madona's picture. I bad a subordinate but crafty spirit assume a similar form, and you eagerly yielded to the blandishments of Matilda. See:
This "whom" was bad grammar: Coleridge gives his highest praise to the character of Matilda, whom he believes is “the author’s master-piece. The relative pronoun is the subject of the verb is, not the object of believes. This would have been right: whom he believes to be. MagistraMundi (talk) 10:32, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Justifications for changes: plot-error and grammar

message: I just removed the following very long section of generally interesting prose from the article, but felt bad condemning it entirely to the abyss:
:===The Wandering Jew and the Bleeding Nun===
:The Wandering Jew is a man doomed to walk the earth until the second coming of Jesus. There are several interpretations of why he is punished this way. One legend says that Jesus wished to take a drink from a horse trough and the Jew refused, instead pointing to a hoofprint filled with water on the ground and "observed that it was good enough for such an enemy of Moses". Another legend says that when Christ sat to rest on a man's doorstep, a man from Jerusalem drove him away, yelling, "'Walk faster!' And Christ replied, 'I go, but you will walk until I come again!'" Both these legends show that the Jew's rude behaviour to Christ is the reason for his punishment of endless wandering.
:The Wandering Jew appears in the subplot of Raymond and Agnes's story in The Monk and foreshadows Ambrosio's encounters with supernatural devilish spirits. The Wandering Jew is first referenced to as a "Great Mogul," but he displays several characteristics associated with the legend of the Wandering Jew that allow us to figure out his true identity before it is directly revealed. He tells Raymond:
::Fate obliges me to be constantly in movement; I am not permitted to pass more than a fortnight in the same place. I have no friend in the world, and, from the restlessness of my destiny, I never can acquire one. Fain would I lay down my miserable life, for I envy those who enjoy the quiet of the grave; but death eludes me, and flies from my embrace.
:This speech reveals that this Great Mogul must constantly move from place to place, has no friends and can never die. All of these signs point to the legend of the Wandering Jew. On top of this, the Great Mogul reveals, “God has set his seal upon me, and all his creatures respect this fatal mark”. This refers to the burning cross on his forehead, a mark of God that gives the Great Mogul his power to destroy evil spirits, such as the Bleeding Nun. This burning mark is a characteristic of the Wandering Jew specifically found in Spanish variants of the legend. The Monk is primarily set in Spain and its main characters, like Raymond, are mostly Spanish. Therefore, the Wandering Jew fulfills the aspects of the legend most commonly found in Spain. Another characteristic of the Wandering Jew found in Spain is that although he is miserable and cursed, he spends his time praying, doing good works and helping others. Theodore tells Raymond that "he did much good in the town," and he helps Raymond get rid of the Bleeding Nun. The Great Mogul's identity as the Wandering Jew is eventually revealed:
::When I [Raymond] related my adventure to my Uncle, the Cardinal-Duke, He told me that He had no doubt of this singular Man's being the celebrated Character known universally by the name of 'the wandering Jew.' His not being permitted to pass more than fourteen days on the same spot, the burning Cross impressed upon his fore-head, the effect which it produced upon the Beholders, and many other circumstances give this supposition the colour of truth.
:The Cardinal-Duke's confirmation and belief in the existence of the Wandering Jew gives credit to Raymond's story.
The ultimate point of this section seems to be convincing the reader the Wandering Jew is present in the novel. However, it is uncontested that this character is the Wandering Jew, so all of this proof is unnecessary (and not very encyclopedic -- more like original research). Perhaps some of this material belongs on the page for the Wandering Jew? Perhaps there are secondary sources which have more to say about the Wandering Jew in this novel which belongs in the "themes" section? Something to do with the claim that he "foreshadows Ambrosio's encounters with supernatural devilish spirits"? It does seem interesting that both ghosts and biblical entities (like Lucifer and the Wandering Jew) are "real" in the same novel, and I suspect there is interesting secondary work to cite on the relationship between religion and the supernatural here. ~ oulfis 🌸(talk) 06:44, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Wandering Jew 

message: — Assignment last updated by 3AngelsMessenger (talk) 20:47, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: LIT 3319 Contexts