Talk:Stucco decoration in Islamic architecture

message: We'd never say "The Louvre is a complex of Caucasian buildings housing many Christian works of art, like the Mona Lisa and the Venus de Milo". Defining such works by religion or ethnicity or both is odd. But we refer to works in the Middle East and Africa in parallel ways, with terms like Moorish architecture and Islamic architecture. Many more specific terms for this architecture are religious and ethnic pejoratives.
Further, we readily call the Sainte-Chapelle Christian architecture.(well, "13th-century Roman Catholic church buildings in France" and "Roman Catholic chapels in Paris" and "Roman Catholic churches in the 1st arrondissement of Paris" and "Churches completed in 1248") The Eiffel Tower is not considered "Christian architecture", but we call the Burj Khalifa "Islamic Architecture". Buckingham Palace, despite being the residence of the head of the Anglican Church, is not "Christian architecture", but Nasarid palaces are "Islamic architecture". We had a consensus against putting religion in biography articles of non-religious figures, but we still do it for "non-Christian" objects.
Some less-reputable newspapers run "stories" and a small minority of "foreign stories". Some divide authors into "authors" and "female authors". Consensus has tended against such marking. Even if every single RS mentioning a person calls her an "actress", Wikipedia calls her an "actor". I think this use of "Islamic" is similarly a form of markedness; an implication that the default society, and most especially its subset secular society, is Christian. 
A tendency to use "plasterwork" for work in the UK, and "stuccowork" for stuff abroad (or "expat"/"immigrant"), seems similarly undesirable.
Such marking forces unnatural conceptual boundaries. Here we have a style and technique that clearly has strong, close roots in Islam, and is most common in the Maghreb and Middle East, but has never been restricted to one religion and has spread until it is widely used in New-World public buildings and :Category:Moorish Revival synagogues. This is typical of art culture; the Hagia Sophia was inspired by concepts of Jewish temple architecture and in turn inspired mosques. 
Of the five wp:commonname principles, marking violates three. It forces inconsistency, imprecision and inconcision; the descriptive titles being proposed suffer from these. Calling synagogue decoration Islamic isn't a very natural use of English, either. We can't do much about a lack of a widely-recognized term. But it would be nice to have a term like qadad, tadelakt, or sarooj, succinct and specific only to the style, and capable of being naturally used in the titles of related articles.
Given the requirement to balance the five criteria, these grounds seem strong enough to retain the uncommon term "yeseria", since it is found in RS. One source (which explicitly includes discussion of synagogue and church work) defines it with: "Yesería (ancient Greek γύψος, Latin gypsum and yeso in Spanish) is a term that describes carved or molded plasterwork used for decorative purposes." The article currently says "The Spanish term yesería is also used to refer to Andalusi plaster decoration."; I can't read the source, and I'm not sure if it just describes "yesaria" as Spanish word or uses it in English text. HLHJ (talk) 00:17, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeseria appears to be just the basic Spanish word for plasterwork. Scholarly hits for the term also return mainly Spanish results. In English scholarship it may have a more precise meaning, or be used to mean more specifically Spanish-Moorish or Andalusi modelled plasterwork, but that certainly doesn't jump out at you. I can also see references to 'yeseria' in Mexico and Cyprus - making me think it is being used more as just a byword for plasterwork influenced by the Spanish plasterwork tradition (regardless of its ultimate derivation from Moorish or Islamic tradition). Iskandar323 (talk) 05:32, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Iskandar323 is correct. An article on "Yeseria" would basically be an article on stucco decoration in the Spanish-speaking world, as I pointed out earlier. Even the (possibly non-academic) source cited by HLHJ above is from a Spanish NGO and refers only to examples in Spain. R Prazeres (talk) 06:03, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Replied to some of this above. "of Islamic origin" is broader than "in the Islamic world", which is broader than "Islamic" or "in Islam". If "in Islamic architecture" is taken to mean "in architecture of Islamic origin", then both avoid putting the scope border right through the opus of individual artists. If it is taken to mean "in Islam", the border gets even less natural. The question is how readers will take it. HLHJ (talk) 02:13, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Islamic architecture is very widely used and, in my mind, well understood terminology, but for readers who don't know, that page explains it fine. Iskandar323 (talk) 10:02, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Some religious and ethnic terms fit guidelines poorly

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: moved. (non-admin closure) ‡ The Night Watch ω (talk) 20:30, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Islamic stucco →  – For a clearer and more descriptive name for the topic, covering carved/molded/etc stucco decoration as described in the currently cited sources. There is already a lengthy discussion about this above (Talk:Islamic stucco#Moving article), in which there was some agreement on this proposed title or something close to it. I'm hoping a WP:RM will ascertain a more definitive consensus either way. The proposed wording ("stucco decoration" and "Islamic architecture") reflects the kind of wording used by the cited scholarly sources cited (see e.g.  and ) and by other potentially relevant sources, again as discussed above. (PS: The Yeseria redirect can be still directed anywhere according to what editors want, this is just to decide the title of the article itself.) R Prazeres (talk) 19:51, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 6 November 2022 

message: — Assignment last updated by ProfTern (talk) 22:22, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello I am also editing this article feel free to check out my sandbox! Falldel24 (talk) 20:15, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

text: To all new editors: please ensure that all additions are clearly supported by citations to relevant reliable sources. And please do not remove or modify existing sourced material, unless you are making a minor clarification or other superficial improvement. This edit, for example, did the opposite and I've reverted it as a result. R Prazeres (talk) 21:14, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: Arts of the Islamic World