Talk:Love hotel

message: The "prostitution in Japan" box certainly is not irrelevant. What do you benefit from censoring the article like this? --DannyWilde 12:47, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Comment - While I don't doubt the link between love hotels and prostitution is a very real one, I think the statement that it is "mainly used" for purposes of prostitution needs to be sourced somewhere. — MC MasterChef :: Leave a tip — 12:57, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: That may have been an overreaction, since I have no proof that the main business of love hotels is prostitution. However, prior to this edit, the page actually said that the main business was catering to married couples. This is utter tosh. It might as well have said the main business was catering to leprechauns. Many of the prostitution ads around my area specifically state "hoteru", and a Google search will turn up plenty more evidence. Anyway. --DannyWilde 13:15, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know about married necessarily, but I am, ahem, familiar with the argument that love hotels are sometimes used by steady couples as a sort of "retreat". I don't know how much hard evidence you can find for this, given the nature of the business, but it's actually a pretty popular claim:   , for example. I think clientele probably depends a great deal on the area and hotel. Can the lead be reworded to reflect both realities? — MC MasterChef :: Leave a tip — 13:35, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It's true that they're used by unmarried couples, because most Japanese young people live with their parents. I doubt you'll find many married couples in them though, that is just a kind of fig leaf. I suppose the low price places are more associated with prostitution, judging from the signs all over the place, or maybe the fancy ones clean up or something. Near my house there are three of the places. I found some pages in a Google search which seemed to think that love hotels are a kind of jolly place which everyone would like built next door to their house. A lot of guide books to Japan have this kind of "jolly" feel to the discussion too. It just isn't true, most Japanese people aren't at all proud or even tolerant of love hotels, and covering up the dark side of love hotels and making them out to be "jolly" places, used by married couples, which everyone accepts with a wink and a nod, is not a good idea in my opinion. --DannyWilde 14:14, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

text: To be honest, I'm not particularly interested in what you think or speculate.  --DannyWilde 10:03, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: So why bother replying to me at all? Jpatokal 12:36, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

text: Why do you think this is admirably frank? I read the article from beginning to end, and there is nothing in it which strikes me as being "admirably frank", just fairly basic information, mostly about the differences between a love hotel and a normal one. --DannyWilde 10:03, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The Japanese Wikipedia as a whole is admirably frank.  Exhibit A. Jpatokal 12:36, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

text: It only says that is the reason used to explain it, it says nothing about "an actual reason". --DannyWilde 10:03, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that would be exactly what just I said. Jpatokal 12:36, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

text: Someone added the box back today. I'd just like to note that it wasn't me using an anonymous address. Jpatokal made a very good point on my talk page, which was that, unlike the other entries on the list, the love hotel itself is not a form of prostitution, although it may have a connection. I'm ambivalent about adding the box to the article again myself. Although there is a connection, perhaps the "love hotel" entry should be struck from the box too. I originally found the entry for esute which was suggesting that this was a form of prostitution, which isn't true at all, and I started cleaning up the box and its entries from that point of view. Anyway. --DannyWilde 04:06, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Removal of prostitution box

message: Here is one article I just read:
*'Slow sex' expert says no short cut to good love hotel hanky-panky Mathmo Talk 03:13, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not much of a reference, to be fair. Looks to me like some self-proclaimed "sex expert" discussing the best ways to make your lady happy. Not very specific to Love Hotels though. ShizuokaSensei 02:33, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lack of refences?? 

message: I don't know where all those alternate names for Love Hotel came from, but the only important one seems to be missing. In official, neutral descriptions of love hotels (for example in car navigation systems and some other maps), they are always called アミューズメントホテル (amusement hotels), and there are other "neutral" names used by news sources. What I'm trying to say here is that while it's fine to refer to them as love hotels in the context of this article, because that's what everyone calls them, when you're talking about the business aspect, or featuring it in a news story, proper legal names should be used. 125.205.59.205 05:40, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Names

message: According to this article  ceiling mirrors & revolving beds (and karaoke machines) are sometimes a feature Nil Einne 05:35, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ceiling mirrors & revolving beds 

message: If short-stay hotels are unconnected to love hotels, they should be made into a separate article, not deleted entirely. However, at least those in Korea and Taiwan are definitely influenced by the Japanese concept. Jpatokal 05:09, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Short-stay hotels elsewhere in the world 

message: I just struck the above section. It's existence implies that the concept of short-stay hotels originated in Japan and spread across the world to other countries. As this is both false and impossible to provide any kind of case for, I've removed the section. How the Japanese system has directly impacted on other nation's short-stay hotels may be worthy of note if it can be proven and properly cited. However, merely listing what other countries call their short-stay hotels doesn't belong on this article. Implying that the idea of rented rooms to have sex in is somehow a Japanese invention which other countries copied is just plain false. ShizuokaSensei 05:09, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please see the comment above posted immediately before yours.  Also, until your own edits, the article's focus was on love hotels in general, not just those in Japan. Jpatokal 05:37, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

text: And FWIW, here's an article by a Waseda researcher on love hotels in Taiwan and Korea , although the focus is not on history. Jpatokal 05:46, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

text: One more: . 「聞くところによると所謂「ラブホテル」という事業モデルは、日本独特のものらしい。最近は、台湾などにもラブホテルが出現し、結構、繁盛しているという。」Jpatokal 05:48, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Had you not just stated that the article was about short-stay hotels in general I would never have worked it out from the article itself! For an article about love hotels in general (which shouldn't be called "Love Hotels" given they are only know as such in Japan) it was very strongly focussed on Japanese hotels. If this article is purporting to be about short stay hotels in general, the entire focus needs to be shifted away from Japan. Some things are certainly unique to a Japanese shortstay hotels, but the idea that the concept itself is unique to, or native to, Japan, is of course, false. ShizuokaSensei 05:57, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think, and the article cited above seems to agree, that the love hotel is a specific type of short-stay hotel that originates in Japan and has spread to Taiwan and Korea, but no further. (Definitive proof that the Japanese are involved: I've stayed in a motel in South Korea that had a vibrator vending machine next to the bed.)  I can buy the argument that other short-stay hotels should be listed somewhere else, but can you suggest where that might be, instead of simply deleting information? For now, I've rescued the obviously unrelated stuff (South America, Phils etc) into a section in Motel. Jpatokal 06:36, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If this article is about short stay hotels then it should be named as such. Love hotels are just one type of short stay hotel. These may contain one or two things which are unique to Japan / Asia, but otherwise they're pretty run of the mill. If this article is about short stay hotels in general as you say it is, then I suggest changing the name, generalising the information (as the majority of it is applicable to short stay hotels the world over) and retaining a sub-section for the few unique points found in Japan / Korea etc etc ShizuokaSensei 15:51, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

text: This article came across as a generalised overview of short stay hotels, but overly focussed on the ones in Japan. This is why I added the tag. The recent edit purports that this is purely about the type of short stay hotels found in Japan, so I've changed the article's wording to reflect that. There's no need for such language as "In Japan, love hotels..." for example. Unrelated, but there's also no need to write out in Japanese words such as "rest" - this article isn't a Japanese phrasebook. --Lets Enjoy Life (talk) 05:06, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  In other countries 

message: Although, found primarily in Japan, they are also common in countries such as South Korea where
high real estate prices have consequently driven hotel rates through the sky.
So I feel, we should mention it.
Olkhicha appa (talk) 09:09, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Location 

message: I've rolled back this change, not because I necessarily disagree with it, but because it's rather different from the previous consensus.  Is it really accurate to say that visitors go to love hotels for "top-notch entertainment facilities such as karaoke, VOD, the latest video games, as well as 30+ inch plasma TVs" as opposed to "allowing couples privacy to have sexual intercourse"?  According to previous discussions on this page, the focus of the article was pared down to the Japanese love hotel and its direct imitators, but your edits seem to overlap well with boutique hotel territory. Jpatokal (talk) 11:23, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Changes to introduction 

message: Not so -- the love hotels I've stayed in Korea and Taiwan also offer short and long stays (although obviously not using the Japanese terms). Jpatokal (talk) 05:53, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rest/stay in Japan only? 

message: http://wikitravel.org/en/Japan#Love_hotels  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.105.251.230 (talk) 04:57, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  a good link with wiki-ish discussion 

message: Changed sexual intercourse to sexual activities, with wiki-link. The former term seems much too restrictive for reality. Boneyard90 (talk) 15:09, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead wording 

message: I re-assessed the article; I believe it needs more material to pass Coverage and References. I realize solid references are difficult to find, but I have likewise been keeping a lookout for any useful material I might find. To pass coverage, more should be said about the effect love hotels have on Japanese culture (or others). For example: I've heard that many high school students go to love hotels for sex; this has become the "image" people have formed of high school sex (by comparison, in the U.S. people thought of the "backseat of a Buick" or later, when cars got smaller and both parents had careers, in the home). People take advantage of them to facilitate extra-marital affairs. High school girls sign up for "dating services", and when they are texted, agree to meet a guy at a love hotel (prostitution). These have all become social issues to varying degrees of severity. Many love hotels don't allow foreigners, same sex couples (whether platonic or intimate), people with children, or groups of more than 2 or 3 to enter love hotels. Unfortunately, I haven't seen any reliable sources on these matters. I know of them either by experience, reliable hearsay, or its considered "common knowledge" in Japan. I wanted to bring up these topics so that interested editors might recognize relevant information if they see it. Thanks. Boneyard90 (talk) 15:30, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: As I said above, the problem is this is far more than a Japanese thing, these are literally everywhere in Korea, and other countries as well. So as the article is written it is extremely focused on Japan which gives it a skewed perspective. The entire thing needs to be rewritten to give it more of a neutral wording/description and then delve into the various countries as necessary.--Crossmr (talk) 23:01, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that more international coverage would help the article; perhaps I should clarify that I am commenting from the perspective of a WP:Japan editor. I don't know how love hotels have altered the cultures of other countries, I've just seen/heard of the effects on Japanese culture since they became sort of semi-mainstream in the 70s? well, several decades ago. As for a "skewed perspective", well, how long have these establishments been in other countries? If it's only been since the 90s, perhaps they are only now having a tangible effect on the cultures of other countries, and it may be a while before any statistics or anthropological studies are published, and the result may be a "Japan-heavy" article for a while longer. Boneyard90 (talk) 23:26, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: According to the Joonang Daily article, "the original love motel was built in the mid-80s" around 25 years before Korea, the book I found notes that Japan had over 30,000 by the mid-80s, but I would say that the cultural effect here is similar to that of Japan in that they're extremely well known, everywhere, and for mostly the same reasons, though there is a bit of a push here to legitimize them a little more, it seems. So I'd say that they've been here about half as long as they've been in Japan, but I'm suspecting (and I'll have to dig around for sources) that western countries have had motels that charge by the hour for as long or longer than Japan. Even in the 80s it was common to refer to seedy motels as the kind of place that would charge by the hour.--Crossmr (talk) 23:34, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

text: I've just come across a book which seems to be a huge repository of knowledge on the Japanese love industry with a lot of useful information (removed dead link to copyrighted material – czar 09:16, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: That sounds great. The oldest (read: "almost creepy") love hotel I ever stayed in was alot like a typical motel, but had alot of traditional Japanese features (tatami, a Japanese futon, no central AC/heat, etc.) with two noticeable differences: a stack of porn magazines and a disco mirror-ball hanging from the ceiling. Another one had a sci-fi theme with murals and a life-size R2-D2 imposter in the corner. Details like those made me think they were established in the 70s, but I suppose an 80s start isn't a stretch. If that's true, then the love hotel industry had a very rapid effect on modern Japanese culture, and the same could be true of other countries. Since I don't have ready access to Japanese sources at the moment, I look forward to reading whatever you might discover and add to the article. Boneyard90 (talk) 02:29, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Check that PDF its like 254 pages, it seems like it almost might be a bible on love hotels. I note it's used a couple times in the article, but at that size I think we could pull far more out of it than that. They seem to be slightly different in Korea. Mainly because they're often used for other purposes. It's quite common for just regular travellers to stay overnight in them. Especially outside the big city. Where the only hotels in town might be "love hotels". The last time I was out of town to catch a sports game, I stayed at one as did a few other friends. It wasn't overly gaudy. There was a box of condoms on the table, and some interesting, and optional, mood lighting, but really it was just a clean room with a big screen TV and free internet/computer.it still had the screen over the parking area though. It seems like the ones in Korea might be the next step, where from what I've read of Japanese ones, they're used almost exclusively for sex.--Crossmr (talk) 04:41, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

text: Thanks. I should mention that some of the newest love hotels in Japan are also going in the "either/or" direction. They're just classy looking hotels with one bed per room and time blocks (noon to 4pm, 4pm to 10pm, etc.) for cost. I'll take a look at the PDF when I get a chance. Boneyard90 (talk) 12:20, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  WP:Japan Assessment Commentary 

message: This documentary from 2014 suggests that a conservative wave in Japan right now has basically forced these hotels to close down by legislating things that would seem comical in the U.S. or like the wildest irrational dreams of our conservative elements; basically legislating decor, in a way that seems to suggest that theme-based decor and certain kinds of fixtures are not allowed, so that "Love Hotels" cannot be distinguishable from some idea of a generic hotel. This would make for a very interesting section.--184.63.132.236 (talk) 01:02, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Japan crackdown via petty legislation featured in Love Hotel (2014) 

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thread_title:  External links modified