Talk:Religious perspectives on Jesus

message: Notice: This is a daughter article of Jesus Christ - It was taken from the mother page made to alleviate the size of the older article.
WhisperToMe 07:19, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: This article was listed on Wikipedia:Votes for deletion Feb 20 to Feb 26 2004. Discussion:
*Non-Christian perspectives on Jesus -- this article is redundant of and identical with Other perspectives on Jesus, a more NPOV title. The article was apparently copied but not moved. COGDEN 07:36, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Votes for Deletion

message: "Religious perspective" can have two meanings. It can either mean "a perspective on religion", which it does not mean in the context of this article, though if it did you'd be OK with leaving "irreligious" people in the article, just not atheists or agnostics. The second meaning, the one used in this article, is "a perspective that is religious". Using that definition, we should remove the atheist, agnostic, and irreligious perspectives from this article:
:Many atheists, agnostics, and deists believe that Jesus was an ordinary human, a traveling Jewish teacher who performed no miracles and made no claims of being God or of having supernatural abilities — and that such ideas about Jesus were invented and spread by others well after Jesus' death.
:A small number of non-religious people and others of non-Christian faiths, on studying the origins of Christianity, conclude there is not enough evidence to clearly support that Jesus Christ was a real person.
The deist one can stay if there's something especially noteworthy about how deists feel about Jesus; it sounds more to me like someone just felt like mentioning deism for no reason because of their general lack of beliefs regarding what Jesus is or isn't. Why not just say "Everyone not mentioned above probably doesn't really have a strong opinion one way or another on Jesus, and likely just thinks he was a nice guy." It says about as much. There are numerous articles for secular and nonreligious views on jesus, such as historical Jesus and historicity of Jesus. There's no reason to have it in the article specifically focused on religious perspectives too, blurring the article's focus and casting a POV judgment on the nature of lack of belief in theism. So let's not. -Silence 04:27, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Nontheism is a ''religious'' perspective?

message: I was asked to comment here about the inclusion of the above. I'd be inclined to leave it out myself, because it's not clear that their beliefs about Jesus differ from a mainstream Christian perspective, so they wouldn't represent anything new or interesting, and it's also a very small group. SlimVirgin (talk) 05:56, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems to me that it is at least more notable than "Urantia". Is that even a religion? Having briefly read the linked article it just seems to be a book, and in fact the article seems rather dodgy, to put it mildly. I think this issue may need attention. In the meantime, I would strongly recommend deleting it from this article. Palmiro | Talk 17:59, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Urantia is a small movement as well, see here: . Personally I would say they are not worth mentioning here either, their addition to this page is more self-promotion than anything else. On the other hand, the Urantia book has a great deal about Jesus in it, and their view of Jesus is at least "unique", to say the least. Jayjg (talk) 18:04, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: On a side-issue, this is the first WP page I have seen formatted into two columns. Consistency would seem to suggest not doing so, would it not? Palmiro | Talk 18:51, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

text: I tend to agree with you, but it's kind of cool looking. Jayjg (talk) 04:47, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Messianic Judaism

message: Is there a reason why there are three columns in part of this page? It's not normal Wikipedia style, and it's much harder to read, and doesn't scale well for smaller window sizes. If noone minds, I'll remove the columns. -- Jeff3000 02:42, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Three column layout 

message: I think it would be well-placed in this article. The Jade Knight 01:10, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: LDS saints identify as Christians. The discussion belongs under Christian views of Jesus, regardless of religious perspective (ie, the Nicene Creed or any POV doctrinal dispute). Arch O. La 06:37, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: On the grounds that the LDS view needs treatment, but would be disproportionately large in the context of this article, I have recast the other article, which is linked from here. I propose removing the Merge banner in a day or so if there's no objection. Myopic Bookworm 15:16, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I like this idea, but I think a brief summary of LDS and nontrinitatian perspectives would also be approproate here. Brief enough that it wouldn't be "disproportionately large." Arch O. LaTalkTCF 21:16, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jesus in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Merge 

message: I have a problem with the recent addition of "and other" to the title of this article. It's too broad— how is "Religious and other perspectives on Jesus" different from just "perspectives on Jesus?"? How does it differ from the Jesus article? "Other" prespectives also includes secular historical views re:Historical Jesus and Historicity of Jesus. That said, I also think that Philosophical perspectives on Jesus deserves an article. Arch O. La 06:41, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Other perspectives?

message: To make the data easier to read, it could be a good idea to have a table, with beliefs across the tops, and different religions down the side. 
Eg "Believe Jesus Existed", "Believe Jesus is God", "Believe Jesus is the son of God", "Believe Jesus went to India". I'd do it myself but I don't have so much time (though I may try) Chopper Dave 22:58, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Good idea. Mercury543210 14:11, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I like the idea, but will it ever come to fruition?--C.Logan 11:29, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Perhaps a table?

message: Why is there a separate section on Latter Day Saint perspectives on Jesus when their views are already discussed under the Christianity section? It unbalences the article. Can't we refer to a more detailed article on LDS beliefs? Many of these 'views' are not about Jesus at all. DJ Clayworth (talk) 16:11, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: In the absence of any objection I'm going to remove from that section anything that is not different from Christianity. Sometime after that I will merge the two sections - possibly to a subsection. DJ Clayworth (talk) 19:05, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

text: I did that. I also removed references to LDS in the "Christianity" section; you can't have a mention in the Christianity section and your own section - that's double dipping. DJ Clayworth (talk) 14:23, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Latter Day Saints

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thread_title: Image copyright problem with Image:Rouault head of christ.jpg

message: The Baha'i view of Jesus has been edited with the aim of making it more concise and readable. Daniel De Mol (talk) 11:10, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree that it is more readable.  Instead it is written in note form, and many of the references have been removed.  I'm going to revert the edit.  Regards, -- Jeff3000 (talk) 11:38, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Baha'i view of Jesus 

message: I keep wondering what the worst article in WikiProject Christianity is. I think after the Salvation and Second Coming of Christ article group, the Christianity section here is in the running. For Heaven's sake, the same, the very same (and not exactly correct) Christological diagram appears within this page twice! And that is just the tip of the iceberg of problems. I tagged the Christian section for a rewrite, and I think 80% of that section should just be deleted for that material is "correctly"  covered elsewhere and does not need to be here as part of this rummage sale. The only consolation here is that the page gets less than 2,000 views a month... sigh... History2007 (talk) 20:55, 15 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Anyway, I cleaned it up now. But I did not modify the Bahai or Jewish sections since I do not know them that well - you guys should look into those anyway. History2007 (talk) 12:29, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Worst article contest

message: Considering that modern atheism is now by at least some governments recognized as a religion, it makes sense to me that maybe we have some material included regarding views of Jesus specifically relevant to the atheist community. John Carter (talk) 18:21, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure I see what views of Jesus would be more relevant to the Atheist community than to, say, the Shinto community, the Wiccan community, or any other community that does not think Jesus divine or divinely inspired nor has tried to co-opt him into their own religion. Can you provide an example? Huon (talk) 20:18, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I seem to remember, for instance, Richard Dawkins and some others whose qualifications are apparently primarily their being leaders of the atheist/agnostic community expressing views on Jesus. Having said that, I would have to check about the other groups as well. I seem to remember at least one branch of Hinduism, maybe the Hare Krishnas or at least some of its members?, thinking that they were willing to consider Jesus an avatar of some incarnation of Vishnu or Krishna. And, although I don't know this for clear fact, there would be every possibility for at least some Buddhists to perhaps think that Jesus was some form of bodhisattva. Admittedly, all three of these groups, Hinduism, Buddhism, and atheism, have a lack of any sort of central authority, which would make it impossible for anyone to say they speak for the broader group as a whole. But I don't think the lack of central authority need necessarily be an inhibition to some substantive content of some kind, if the material is verifiable. John Carter (talk) 20:38, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: So, we often talk about Abrahamic vs. and non-Abrahamic religions, but in this case the split is a bit more complicated, specifically because Judaism does not need to recognize Jesus at all.  All the other Abrahamic religions require that Jesus existed at least as a man, or else it fundamentally reshapes the religion.  I would say the categories would be "belief systems that count Jesus among their significant religious figures" and "belief systems  that do not count Jesus as a significant religious figure," where Judaism, non-Abrahamic religions, and nonbelievers all fall into the second category, not simply atheists. Mwenechanga (talk) 19:22, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The distinction you make is a reasonable one, that Judaism predates Jesus, but he is apparently quoted in the Talmud, which makes belief in him more or less implicitly supported within Judaism. And, so far as I know, there are few if any Jewish religious leaders or religiously Jewish academics who say much of an unusual nature about him in any event, other than more or less repeating the academic consensus and maybe adding a few speculative details. Also, as I said, at least some of the groups in the NRMs seem to actively disbelieve in his existence or religious significance of any real sort, while many others, possibly influenced to some degree by Christianity, possibly not (that gets hard to tell, particularly with those claiming direct inspiration of some sort), do say he existed as a religious figure, although not necessarily in a form recognizable by most Christians. But maybe a break up along the lines of "Religions which (effectively) pre-date Jesus" and "Antecedent faiths" might work better. Even there, there might be some problems with some religions which might be more recent than Christianity, but in areas where Christianity didn't necessarily arrive until later. One example here is the fact that the God of King Louis of France (I honestly don't know whether it is supposed to be Jesus or Jehovah or both or maybe the whole Trinity as one) is supposed to be counted one of the gods of the loa. I would still favor the "Abrahamic tradition" section as a whole, with maybe the "major world religions" section adding Yoruba religion, Zoroastrianism, and (maybe) some of the broadly ethnic religions still extant, and then adding a separate section for those which have developed since the people in that area were significantly exposed to Christianity in some form. That would include the various forms of Western atheism which have developed in the largely Christian west in the past few centuries. John Carter (talk) 19:40, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I would support a split based on Abrahamic and non. Jesus or not, there is a fundamental commonality in the understandings of God shared among Abrahamic faiths that is not present in the non-Abrahamic faiths. And the central point of atheist views of Jesus is their perception of him as a non-divine Person. Elizium23 (talk) 00:07, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Atheist views 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: On the island of Reunion, malbars hindus have never made any syncretism between Hinduism and Catholicism. At the time, it was mainly a question of practicing the two religions separately. the practice of Hinduism being frowned upon by the Christian majority. Nowadays, with the fact that Hinduism is no longer seen necessarily negatively, many people have decided to choose one religion or the other. Those who practice both remain in the minority, but they always practice it separately.
There are perhaps people who can make a syncretism between the two religions, but this remains an individual opinion and not a common practice among the Hindus of Reunion Island, and even in this case they never associated krishna birthday with hindu birthday.
Settes4664 (talk) 06:54, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Hinduism and Christianity syncretism among the malbars