Talk:Madden Curse

message: Reggie White was featured on a cover of the Madden video game.  Specifically, the Madden 97 video game, as seen here: http://images.channeladvisor.com/Sell/SSProfiles/60000200/Images/29/1109041225701_MiscMadden97.jpg.  Madden 97 was released in 1996, the year Reggie White had one of his most successful seasons, and his team went on to win Super Bowl XXXI.  How is he not included in the discussion of the Madden curse or as a player that graced the Madden video game cover? Jdhein22 00:28, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: White is never mentioned in the sources, external links, etc. I guess the curse doesn't cover players before 2000, who knows, but it's not listed in the snopes article so adding Reggie White and the previous players would be original research.++aviper2k7++ 05:14, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If I had to interpret this, I would say Reggie White was not affected by the curse directly, since he was not on the cover directly.  However fact is fact, and he did pass away at the early age of just 43.   Starze 05:15, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Madden 97

message: Isn't it a bit of a stretch to say he was cursed when he had the best year of his career? Borisblue 07:24, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Eddie George?

message: Please see WP:NOT, Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. The whole section revolves around original research and speculation.++aviper2k7++ 02:16, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Try scrolling down, and reading the actual discussion. There's more to this issue than simply claiming Young is a victim of the curse simply because he missed one game. --ShadowJester07 ► Talk  20:01, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Vince Young's numbers sucked last year. He didn't deserve the ROY award.►Chris NelsonHolla! 01:34, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: 2008 cover

message: Is the second Paragraph of this article really needed? It basically states information which is later stated in another, more proper parts of the Article. If it's really needed, perhaps one can just trim it down. --ShadowJester07 18:09, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Should be trimmed, not completely removed per WP:MOS. I'll try to trim it.++aviper2k7++ 18:18, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Second Paragraph

message: I am very willing to create a new "Curse of EA" page and move this over there.  I can't believe people are disputing this page as a WP:NOT crystal ball when there are UFOs and other pages that are even less proven. Anyhow why limit it to just football? 
#What about Dan Heatley of the Atlanta Thrashers in hockey.  He was in a major car accident that killed his teammate after he graced the cover.
#What about Roy Jones Jr the boxer who graced the cover of Fight Night 2004 and suffered back-to-back losses. His first two real defeats in his career.
#Shaquille O'Neal: Misses 28 games in 1996. Then left Orlando to Los Angeles in the off-season.
Starze 05:06, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Adding such would be original research. If it's verifiable and written about by news medias, then add it, but I doubt it's written about in that context. And my crystal ball comment was directed toward a section someone created speculating the 2008 cover.++aviper2k7++ 05:14, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am going to see if others have more comments before I make any page changes.  The news/media are not going to write it in that context.  They don't want to be sued by the billion dollar EA conglomerate.  But it is in forums all over, and to me that's better than 1 news person saying it thru some news center.  Starze 05:25, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortunately it's not. Please see WP:V as Wikipedia frowns upon sourcing forums or blogs. Adding this information would be against WP:OR due to lack of sources linking this to the madden curse.++aviper2k7++ 06:07, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok I have enough reliable sources to link a ton of new info.  I am proposing a move of this page to "EA curses".  It is fascinating stuff that should not be limited to just 1 sport. Any objections?Starze 04:13, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There are many more sources that site a "Madden Curse". There are more reliable sources that call it the "Madden Curse" and not EA Curse. I've never heard of an EA Curse actually. Google results turn only 1,970 results while madden curse returns 64,000. Moving this page to EA curse wouldn't make much sense as most people know this as the Madden Curse.++aviper2k7++ 22:38, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't worry.  I can move the wikipedia page no problem, and it will self-link to madden curse to the new EA curse page.  Done it many times.  The google result is not indicative of anything, since a search on "madden" will result in 25 million hits versus "nba live" with just 2 million hits.  So "madden curse" is definitely going to get you a higher number.  Compared to the other sports, the football player injuries are quite minor in comparison.  Let's see if anyone else objects.  I do appreciate your feedback.  With my sources I do have alot more info to offer.  The only one I probably won't bother mentioning is Shaq's 28 games since I honestly couldn't get a decent reference on it.  Thanks again.  Starze 04:41, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I searched "Madden curse" in parenthesis, which searches the whole term. I really don't see your argument, how can 1,970 hits on the term "EA curse" be verifiable? I mean, the term Madden Curse is quite well known, more-so than EA Curse. There's more reliable and verifiable sources with the "Madden Curse" than there is "EA Curse". Don't know why it'd need changing.++aviper2k7++ 05:08, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Did you know EA the company acknowledged the curse when they pulled Dan Heatley's cover off the shelf.  That has NEVER HAPPENED IN FOOTBALL.  Please read the Wikipedia:Five pillars because you point of view is no longer neutral, limiting to your favorite sport.  Also please read What Wikipedia is not.  Because you are currently "censoring" and "discriminating collections of information".  Really, I am open to any discussion not based on popularity.  There is no policy in wikipedia saying materials are only allowed when it has reached X number of hits on a search engine. Starze 17:00, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Who said my favorite sport was football? I've played hockey all my life. It's not a point of view, it's the amount of valid sources writing about a Madden Curse and not EA Curse. Unless you own a book or a couple of magazines that say something about an "EA Curse", there is not enough Validity to change the name of the page. There's thousands or articles about a Madden Curse and there's about one or two good valid articles about an EA curse.++aviper2k7++ 21:20, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have left this discussion open for 3 days, and the only attempt to prove an "EA curse" does not exist is that google doesn't have enough hits for an unwritten article?  Other wikipedians are not going to be able to input for the other sports, when this page continues to suppress to 1 league.  Again, this is censorship and discriminating information against wikipedia policies.  This page will be moved to "EA curse", and it will self-link to "Madden curse" automatically.  The word "Madden curse" is not going to disappear.  Don't worry.  It will certainly be incorporated into the next article changes.  You may not accept "EA curse", and I can understand.  But thousands of hits on google tell me it has already been accepted.  Your argument is based entirely on looking the other way.  Starze 04:43, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Well, first off, there’s no real evidence that proves the existence of either curse; we merely assume the two exist based on pure superstition, similar to broken mirror and black cat phenomena. The Madden and SI curse have gained wide spread attention for three basic reasons, consistency, frequency, and recognition. The only reason why the madden curse article has not been deleted is because various, credible sources, ei CNN, ESPN, 1UP, ect have written about it, and reinforced the information with credible facts. Additionally, something has gone wrong to almost every player who appeared on the cover – perhaps not all – but to the extent and frequency at which it has drawn significant media attention. If you claim that there is an EA curse, please state some sources that can verify your claim. --  ShadowJester07  ►Talk   05:32, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Here are 4 quick references for starters.  Notice how they call it "EA cover curse" or "Curse of EA" or "EA sports curse".  If anyone doubt the legitimacy of the sources, I'd rather post this to wikipedia dispute page and let the administrators take a look.  Otherwise I'd like to move on with the editing.Yahoo.comPC gameworldGamespyXbox gamezone  Starze 17:19, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Ok I added a section below.  I guess I am not going to bother putting it into the main article.  Starze 17:02, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Why Just Football?

message: Here is a list of non-football related curses.  Feel free to add to the list.  It has been decided that the article be kept to football materials only, since injuries are more consistent on a season to season basis.  Should other sports result in the same consistency in the future, the article may be rediscussed to relocate to an EA curse page instead.  Starze 17:02, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Non-Football Curses

message: * Roy Jones Jr suffered back-to-back losses after he appeared in Fight Night 2004.  The first two real defeats in his career.   Knocked out by Antonio Tarver in May 2004.  Knocked out by Glencoffe Johnson in September 2004.Source
Don't forget that the cover boy for NHL 2004 was supposed to be Joe Thornton, but they yanked him before any games were shipped due to assault charges. 24.83.3.54 23:43, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Boxing

message: Does anybody have a screen of the Garrison Hearst cover?  I know it says that the Madden-only cover was more popular, but I've never seen the Garrison Hearst one.  I suppose the same with Madden 2000 and Barry Sanders.  Sanders was the focus of the game and the new rushing additions, but ... I don't think he was ever on the cover of any versions in the final print.
Google is an amazing tool.Chris Nelson 00:01, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Garrison Hearst? 

message: Apparently the Madden curse is about as bad as being the league's leading rusher the previous year. This came from the fouth reference. what do you say? 24.83.3.54 23:19, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Leading Rusher 

message: Would Michael Vick's legal troubles due to dogfighting be considered a continuation of the Madden Curse? Richiekim 15:07, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it took place two years after he appeared on the over :p --ShadowJester07 ► Talk  17:52, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Michael Vick's indictment 

message: San Diego Chargers defensive end Luis Castillo is on a Spanish-language version of Madden 08 that will be released in December. It was announced today that he will miss six weeks after surgery. Does the curse take affect in Spanish as well as English, or have I loset my mind?71.183.212.59 00:03, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no curse.►Chris NelsonHolla! 00:08, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Come on, look at the context of the article. It's probably a good assessment that he's been bit by the curse. Context Context Context. --Raderick (talk) 06:58, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Luis Castillo-Is Spanish language Curse Extension?

message: He averaged 9.8 tackles a game with 147. It was a good year. Interceptions don't mean anything for linebackers. Brian Urlacher went almost two years without and interception, and that was in his prime. What does playoffs have to do with it? Hes a defensive player, how is it his fault that they missed the playoffs? Anyways the AFC North was good that year, both the Steelers and Bengals made the playoffs..--Coasttocoast 19:44, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: People are stupid and believe in stupid, nonsensical things like curses.►Chris NelsonHolla! 21:07, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

text: yes how weird is it that players get injured in a physical sport. just the other day i saw a boxer with a bruised eye and another with a cut eye, theres definately some powerful forces at work.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.15.149.209 (talk) 22:32, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: How is Ray Lewis cursed?

message: Donovan McNabb was one the Madden 06 cover (to remind everyone, he went  down with a hernia that year, in which Philly blew up). The next year, he hurt his leg, leading to Jeff Garcia's chance to lead the team, whihc he did to a playoff spot. Now, he has an injured leg and thumb. Can this be seen as a long-term curse? If it is, the curse can't be broken. 71.183.212.59 (talk) 21:28, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There's no such thing as a curse.►Chris NelsonHolla! 21:33, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Donovan McNabb-Is he still a victim?

message: Right now this article is just "List of Cover Athletes and why Their Cursed". The list biased and puts a spin on every section to prove the Madden Curse exists. In the discussion above someone said "we are merely listing all the players listed- the readers can interpret the information any way they want" Yea the article is listing info that leans toward the Madden Curse being true and leaves out the rest.... -- Coasttocoast (talk) 03:19, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I have written a more concise and neutral revision of this article, here. Suggestions? --  ShadowJester07  ►Talk   03:33, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That article isn't any better, because it's a violation of WP:SYN. That's the whole problem with this article: it's all based on editors taking separate facts together to make up their own theories. Wikipedia is not a place for original research. I'd almost consider marking this article for deletion based on that. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 03:41, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not see how the article is making up claims; all the claims are stated in the cited references, er atleast mine ;). I think it would be more on the lines of WP:SYNTH if I made up something like "the Madden curse only effects running backs" based on the fact that raw statistical data. Various sources believe that the curse exists. Given that the sources are reliable, and not any fringe theory of sorts, I believe they can be |stated on Wikipedia. --  ShadowJester07  ►Talk   03:52, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Admittedly, your version is better than what we have, but still has some synthesis. For example, you draw a connection with Garrison Hearst. You can quote things to say that he was on the cover, and also that he injured himself post-season, but it seems to infer some connection with the curse. It walks the SYN line very closely, but given what we currently have, I'd take yours. So put it up if you want; I won't revert. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 04:30, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The key here is that we should not simply state misfortunes suffered by cover athletes. This article should ONLY contain an explanation of what the supposed curse is, with sourced, and then give reliable sources connecting the curse to each cover athlete. This is not the place for people to suggest reasons why a player is cursed or why he isn't. It's only to inform that the curse is a discussed subject in the sports and gaming world.►Chris NelsonHolla! 04:50, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

text: Actually, upon reviewing my revision again, the middle paragraph really looks synthetic - I agree with HelloAnnoying and feel it should be removed unless there's something to back it up. Given this article has little substance to begin with, perhaps it would be best to redirect to Madden NFL and expand it's Madden Curse section. --  ShadowJester07  ►Talk   05:17, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Not a bad idea. I'd support a merge, but I would use the text from your article on the main page. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 05:29, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

text: Does anyone oppose? --  ShadowJester07  ►Talk   01:27, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: This article is awful

message: Article linked from here. --69.42.9.46 (talk) 05:17, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yahoo Sports 

message: Hey. Someone posted on the third opinion page about Shadowjester's edits, more specifically this one. I've removed the request because there's nothing wrong here. This version, by , is a vandalism of sorts. Sentences such as those should be sourced, so making POV statements such as "This has caused a public relations nightmare in the 2008 offseason for the team. The Madden curse continues" absolutely need to be sourced. See WP:RS and WP:V for more. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 05:19, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  3O