Talk:Death of Subhas Chandra Bose

message: Where my grammar nazis at? Lots to be done here...  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.214.118.60 (talk) 20:32, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Serious grammar checks needed

message: One such claims that Bose actually died in Siberia, while in Soviet captivity.
i am refer at some information why support these conspirance theory,this appareing in Axis history forum "Japanese POW's in the USSR?":
Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posted: 28 Mar 2004 19:25
The Soviets attacked Manchuria and Korea after the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Fighting did not stop in Korea until late september 1945.
Some of those captured were reputedly nuclear scientists of Japan's project to build an atomic bomb in North Korea (F-Go Project). Others were involved with Unit 731 which pursued biological warfare methods. Me thinks the real reason why Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bombed was to force Japan's surrender before Stalin could capture these laboratories.
Some of those captured in Manchuria may have been Indians fighting for Japan recruited by Indian nationalist Chandra s Bose. Bose was sent by Hitler on the U-180 to help with Japan's war effort against the British.
Japanese POW's in the USSR? Simon Gunson
Member
If these comment poses any sustain,acase indicate the existance of some indians was captured in Manchukuo by Soviet Forces for conduct to siberian gulags? or more specifically between these captured INA indians stayed the "Netanji" Chandra Subhas Bose?
if only one historical curiosity.
According to Babajan Gouffrav, India's Ambassador in Moscow Dr Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan was allowed to see Netaji some where in the Soviet Union on the condition that the Ambassador would not talk and mutely converse in any manner with Netaji. After this strange meeting, Ambassador Radhakrishnan informed Prime Minister Nehru about Netaji's presence in the Soviet Union. This fact came to be known and speculations were rife in New Delhi about the ways and means of securing the release of Netaji from the Soviet custody, but nothing was done at the official level to secure Netaji's release. Thus ended one dark chapter in the history of free India.
:Bose might have died in Soviet Prisons. -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 20:30, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Whoever wrote those above comments seems to be confused about the history of WW2. The Soviet declaration of war on Japan was after the bombing of Hiroshima. The terms of the surrender of Japan a week later provided that Japanese forces in Manchuria and North Korea would surrender to the USSR. There is no way that the bombing of Hiroshima stopped the Soviet occupation of Manchuria. There seems no reason for Indian troops to be sent to Manchuria, as there was no war there until the very end.--Jack Upland (talk) 07:12, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: About Soviet captivity conspirancy theory

message: The penultimate section is an obvious attempt to discredit a newspaper [Pioneer is a fairly large name] while the final is a self promtion advert.
Nimishbatra 16:50, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Verifiable evidences of a published and well-received novel and it's author is not promotional advertisement and it is not being mentioned that he is a 'Hero' or a 'Saviour'. Check the links and get back to me before blanking out those sections, as it is considered vandalism to just say it's trash and to delete it. Please do not bring in the clashes between various Netaji Death Mystery forum into Wikipedia, as I notice that the 'Indiansforaction' forum has been mentioned thrice wheres various cited reports from 'Mission-Netaji' have been either deleted or moved down below. We are here only to present things as they are, verifiable and citeable and not to present promotional views. Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sudharsansn (talk • contribs) 14:22, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The last two sections are destrcutive trash 

message: The following para seems to be superfluous and redundant so I am removing it from article to the talk page for further ref
Inquiry
Anuj Dhar, a Delhi-based journalist has lead a one man independent research into the probe and has compiled all his findings in his book Back from the Dead which was very well received by all audience and critically acclaimed and it led to startling insights into Netaji's death mystery. More such resources have been compiled to be read by the public in a Netaji death mystery probe portal.
Legaleagle86 16:42, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Redundant

message: :Image:Japanpaper111.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot 04:13, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Japanpaper111.jpg

message: I removed "For details go to this site http://khonjkhabor.com/storyline.php?from=archive" from the final section. This is not properly formatted at a reference, and it seems the site itself is under construction. I am suspicious that it might be spam, but it's hard to evaluate since the site itself doesn't seem to be up and running. Purgatorio (talk) 18:58, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed inline external link 

message: Placed this tag, I've check most of the current refs and it's quite clear the article is biased and does not differentiate between facts and speculation. This tag remains as long as anyone tries to improve it, I'm open and ready to help. Sincerely, Ugog Nizdast (talk) 18:25, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV tag 

message: The account of the plane crash fails to properly record the circumstances. For example, it does not report the extensive and repeated testimony of Bose's companion and others present on the flight, nor even describe who else died or survived. I will try and improve this when i have time.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by PTSN (talk • contribs) 15:26, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Account of the plane crash 

message: The Khosla Commission article is another pointless, stubby sideshow of a Bose article. It says little and that  which is said can easily fit into this, the main article covering his death. Sitush (talk) 21:16, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Support for the reasons you give. --Yaush (talk) 22:47, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

text: Support both mergers. Even the Mukherjee commission article should considered for merger, since it is largely sourcable to primary sources, and contemporaneous news accounts, and its greater length is simply due to easier access to more recent sources, rather than greater historical significance (in fact, it is the only report of the three that was not accepted by GoI, which commissioned it). Abecedare (talk) 23:45, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

text: Support. Also support the merge of Mukherjee commission article into this. -- XrieJetInfo (talk) 08:21, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

text: Support per Abecedare and XrieJetInfo.  Fowler&fowler«Talk» 21:19, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I've now rewritten the Khosla section and redirected the Khosla Commission to that section.  Could someone double check that I did it right.  Thanks.  Fowler&fowler«Talk» 14:00, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed merge of [[Khosla Commission]] 

message: The Shah Nawaz committee article is another pointless, stubby sideshow of a Bose article. It says little and that  which is said can easily fit into this, the main article covering his death. Sitush (talk) 21:24, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Support. For the reasons you give. --Yaush (talk) 22:46, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

text: Support -- XrieJetInfo (talk) 08:22, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

text: Support Fowler&fowler«Talk» 21:18, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed merge of [[Shah Nawaz Committee]] 

message: This article seems to be on its way of presenting a decent historical account of Bose's death. But I think, that should not be its sole focus. From the literature I have reviewed, for the past few decades historians have not even bothered rebutting alternate theories of Bose's disappearance point-by-point. Rather they have have regarding these theories as a sociological phenomenon, and the wikipedia article needs to to cover that aspect explicitly. See for example this quote from Democracy Indian Style: Subhas Chandra Bose and the Creation of India's Political Culture, Anton Pelinka, Transaction Publishers, 2003:
I am tempted to go on, but don't want to abuse fair use beyond its limit!
I wouldn't be quoting a political scientist like Pelinka, if this issue was only a matter of weighing historical evidence to determine the true circumstances of Bose's death. But as I stated above, the political/sociological dimensions are what give the issue legs and should be covered in the article (and not just dismissively; and, obviously with proper attribution etc). Thoughts/ objections? Abecedare (talk) 00:13, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Per WP:FRINGE and WP:VALID we give the mainstream academic perspective full coverage and need to make sure that any conspiracy theory coverage is presented as fringe conspiracies. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 12:39, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, Abecedare, I didn't see this until a few days ago.  I entirely agree with you.  I've kind of done something similar in the "The Myths" section, but from the perspective of historians (Bayly-Harper, Lebra, Gordon).  I'm a little leery of going into psycho-social-political implications/causes of the persistence of the myths, especially well into the 21st century.  It is one thing to say, as Bayly and Harper do, "The legend of 'Netaji' Bose's survival helped bind together the defeated INA. In Bengal it became an assurance of the province's supreme importance in the liberation of the motherland." but it is quite another to say, "Bose stands for Bengal's disappointments," which, in my view, is too big a leap of inference, and would need attribution from more than one scholarly source.  If you have such sources, please go ahead.  I'm now done with section 1 (The Crash); section 2 (The Myths); Section 3 a (Feggess report) (caveat: I do still need to add cites here and there).  Also, I'm afraid "Bhagwanji" can't get a mention, only his alias "Gumnami Baba."  The latter alone is mentioned in  a few scholarly sources; Bhagwanji is not, mostly only mentioned in Anuj Dhar's writings.  Fowler&fowler«Talk» 21:12, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: If Pelinka is cited on the "politics/psychology" behind the conspiracy theories, it would definitely need in-text attribution as an opinion, and not stated as a fact. But I also see your point that it may be prudent to see if other scholars have voiced similar opinion, or cited Pelinka's take approvingly. So for now I am fine with either options: proving a one line summary of Pelinka's views, or leaving this here on the talk page for reevaluation a year or so down the line, to see if other sources pick up (or pick on) this theme. Abecedare (talk) 15:52, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

text: The article on the death of Subhas Bose contains references from Sugata Bose who is a blood relation of Subhas Bose. I understand that Wikipedia considers writings about a person by a family member as non-independent. -- Xrie (talk) 12:28, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I doubt that a great-nephew, who is a history professor at Harvard, who moreover has written a book published by Harvard University Press, and reviewed both in academic journals and the better-known English language newspapers, would be considered a blood relative in the sense of one constituting a conflict of interest.  I have used him very sparingly.  He's one of the only scholarly sources that mention "Gumnami Baba." As for Bhagwanji, he's best merged with the Anuj Dhar article. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 12:58, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: PS And you are right about one cite, the one in the lead sentence.  It was mistakenly carried over from the SCB article (where it was removed).  I have now removed it.  Now the only place Sugata Bose is being used is in the Gumnami Baba reference.  Fowler&fowler«Talk» 13:08, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggestion 

message: I've edited the article to correct the presentation of the end of the war. Prior to this, the article gave the false impression (based no doubt on Anglophone propaganda) that the Japanese Army on the mainland was being routed. In fact, the Japanese Army was under some pressure in places, but was not facing defeat. America's "island hopping campaign" was based on a defeat of the Japanese Navy, not the Japanese Army. They had failed to even take the Phillipines from the Japanese Army.  This only changed in the last days of the war, with the A-bomb attacks on the Japanese homeland, and with the Soviet attack, which drove into Manchuria and Korea and threatened a large-scale amphibious assault on the Japanese islands. The Japanese Emperor's decision to surrender created a practical, as well as psychological, problem for the Japanese Army, as it was difficult for them to find someone to surrender to. The Japanese surrender in Kuala Lumpur was taken not by British or American forces, but by guerrillas of the Communist Party of Malaya. The British had contemplated landing in Operation Zipper, but hadn't done so. Hence, Bose was able to move around East Asia quite easily because it was still in Japanese hands.--Jack Upland (talk) 21:12, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  End of WW2 

message: Recent articles about offcial GOI reply to RTI:
* Mystery ends: Subhash Chandra Bose died in plane crash in 1945, Govt says in a RTI reply
*Subhash Chandra Bose died in 1945 plane crash in Taiwan, confirms RTI
*National Archive maintains website regarding all declassified files (300 total) in 2015-2016. Netaji papers
Please update and add info accordingly. Regards,--Nizil (talk) 20:55, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  New info 

message: The article needs to take into account the alternative viewpoints apart from the mainstream theory to make it better. It needs to take into account Mukherjee commission finding. It has quoted exhaustively from sources which are known to promote only the "mainstream" view of death by plane crash. It needs to delve deeper into the alternate theories. It needs to mention that the Mukherjee Commission was established under a directive from Calcutta High Court, was a legitimate commission and its findings deserve importance. It has highlighted its rejection by the then UPA Government but have not taken into account the political circumstances that lead to the rejection. The article needs to discuss the dissentient report of Suresh Bose, elder brother of Netaji in the 1956 Shah Nawaz Committee report, which points out the glaring discrepancies in the investigation of Khosla commission. Also to substantiate the claims it needs to evaluate the alleged inherent bias of G.D Khosla. It has quoted sources like the writings or Sugato Bose or Leonard Gordon, but has not considered other texts esp. the Bengali ones like Dr. Satyanarayan Sinha's Netaji Rahasya. Netaji Research Bureau headed by Dr. Bose is alleged to be biased as Dr. Bose and his father were both politicians and had vested interests in continuing with the mainstream death theory. The article needs to consider the other sources, viz. investigations on Gumnami Baba or Bhagwanji by several investigative journalists, the recent findings of Anuj Dhar that have been lauded by Allahabad High Court in its verdict in 2013. Also it needs to mention the claims made by noted people like Suresh Bose, Dr. Pabitra Mohan Roy, ex. INA intelligence officer, Leela Roy, a close associate of Netaji Subhas Bose and Sunil Krishna Gupta, a fellow revolutionary, or Trailokya Maharaj, a close associate of Subhas Bose during his Mandalay days. It needs to mention the statements made by Sarat Bose to the effect of Subhas being in China. It should mention that Ms. Emilie Schenkle refused to accept the so called ashes kept in the Renkoji temple and it should also refer to Justice Mukherjee's attempts for a DNA testing of the ashes which did not materialize owing to the absence of reliable samples. The article needs to take into cognizance the secondary and more cryptic sources like "Oi Mahamanab Ase", by Bijoy Nag, a publisher of repute who owns the renowned Jayasree magazine. The article needs to mention the pieces of evidences unearthed in the Ram Bhavan, Faizabad after the demise of the saint Bhagwanji and the petition of Lalita Bose, the niece of Subhas Bose to preserve the material goods and documents of Bhagwanji in Allahabad High Court and the court's verdict in 2013 to its favour  . The article needs to refer to the new evidences pertaining to handwriting matching, first by B Lal in 2003 to Mukherjee Commission and subsequently by Curt Baggett and more recently by Ashok Kashyap, all renowned forensic experts who have all claimed a complete match between Bhagwanji's and Netaji's handwriting, thus pointing to the validation of the theory of Subhas Bose being Bhagwanji, thereby nullifying the plane crash theory. 
Above all even though the article has provided a vivid "official" description of Subhas Bose's so called death by plance crash it needs to examine the glaring discrepancies associated with the death as highlighted in the JMCI report or in the dissentient report of Suresh Bose. It also needs to consider Alfred Wagg's report that Bose was sighted in Saigon after the so called plane crash by him. It has not discussed the claims made by historian J B P More.
We need to rework extensively on this article.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Shantdey (talk • contribs) 07:34, August 21, 2019 (UTC)
* it will be much easier to address yor concerns if you propose a specific change along with the supporting sources. That would allow for a more focused discussion than a general critique and reference dump. Speaking generally though (for now), the sources you list are not very good since wikipedia tends to rely on secondary scholarly sources for articles such as this one, and doesn't try to balance them with primary sources, generic newspaper reporting, or "popular" publications. I'd also encourage you to take a look at the earlier discussions on this page and at Talk:Subhas Chandra Bose (including the searchable archives linked from the top of that page) where several of the alternate theories you bring up have been discussed before. Abecedare (talk) 21:30, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revision Requests - Additional Sources and Information 

message: *'Netaji Bose - The Lost Treasure' a documentary by History TV18 channel.
Hi User:Fowler&fowler I saw that you reverted me here. I don't agree with the revert. The article is on the death of Bose and this documentary is on Bose's death. The title of the docu is as such, since it also discussed these rumours of treasure and various viewpoints. Wikipedia articles do include such sections about the films/documentary on the topic of the article. So this should be restored back. --DBigXrayᗙ 21:27, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi there: How is this documentary a reliable secondary source? The History Channel makes all sorts of documentaries on ancient aliens and the flying saucers of India; the ancient aliens and Shiva Linga (i.e. it was brought by aliens to earth).  So can we add those to Airplane or Hinduism?  Sorry, I haven't seen this particular one, but it makes for an uncomfortable fit in an article that relies entirely on scholarly sources.Fowler&fowler«Talk» 22:39, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: This is not related to :Ancient Aliens in any way. You can check the related coverage here.--DBigXrayᗙ 08:22, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Documentary 

message: Mukherjee Commssion [2005] https://mha.gov.in/sites/default/files/jmci-I-eng_3.pdf after numerous accounts have concluded , in contradiction though with earlier Shah Nawaz Committee 1956 and Khosla Commission 1970 that Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose did not die for the supposed plane crash (page 123)
The very first conclusion of the article is prejudiced.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Debjitwiki123 (talk • contribs) 18:39, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: The Mukherjee report was rejected by the Indian government and most of its findings discredited. Why should we accept the conclusions of this report over the various others that concluded that Bose did die on 18 August 1945? The article gives due weight to all the inquiries. Nthep (talk) 14:42, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

text: It is fact that the Mukherjee report was presented to the Government of India. However it is also  fact that the GoI rejected the report and its findings. These other investigations can be presented with reliable sources? Secondary independent, reliable sources that that the findings are valid, that the investigations were genuine and impartial and not just an attempt to change the outcome to the one the people behind the investigations want to hear? Nthep (talk) 10:04, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cause of death of Netaji is not proven 

message: I don't know why, but a guy in the Subhas Chandra Bose talk page said to me that this article could be a good candidate for GA nomination. However, he also said that I need to write a lead section and a conclusion to this article. So, that is just what I did. But again, this article is a controversial hodgepodge, and I am quite scared as if it causes any wrong. So, I have decided to just leave a message here just to discuss more about it. TootsieRollsAddict (talk) 06:31, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I apologize.  I did make that suggestion to you.  But on further reflection, I feel it is not ready for a GA run.  Besides the new lead is neither an accurate precis of the article's main body nor an encyclopedic text by itself.  It has issues with grammar and diction.  I apologize again.  Best regards, Fowler&fowler«Talk» 12:24, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Makes sense. I do know that I have not sourced it well enough, mostly relying on Microsoft Edge searches and selecting any random website that looks reliable enough, like Insider or News 18. However, if I want to REWRITE the lead section again, I need some help, especially in reliable source finding. If you do find some sources good enough, just give me some suggestions and paste the lniks to them here. Thanks. TootsieRollsAddict (talk) 06:52, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  I have written a brand-new lead section for this article in an attempt to nominate for GA