Wikipedia talk:Copyrights/Archive 7

message: Hi, someone recently objected to my removal of links, saying that torrent sites and search engines do not distribute illegal links themselves. Would you say this is a valid line of logic? I'd say it makes Wikipedia look bad, and should be discouraged anyway.
IMHO something needs to be added to the Copyrights Policy to prevent such disagreements. --Kjoonlee 02:01, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Copied from archives. --Kjoonlee 05:39, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Again, linking to a torrent tracker/search engine only points out a place where one can search for files, the same way google searches for webpages. Linking to such a site does not say that we encourage illegal activity, merely that we would rather they look somewhere other than Wikipedia. Instead of removing such links for third-parties who may believe this to be unethical, we should inform them of the points I made previously.--Frenchman113  on wheels! 21:40, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  So it would be an illegal link in an article on torrent search engines, but normally we should not be linking from an article to a set of search results, anyway. - Jmabel | Talk 19:09, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Correct. Note that a serch query will return different results with time. ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 19:40, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Could the top anonymous contributer please give an example, I am struggling to understand what sort of thing you mean--BozMo talk 13:46, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was the person who wrote the first two paragraphs. Here's the link. Wikipedia:Reference desk archive/Computing/2006 September 3 --Kjoonlee 03:02, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  What about torrents? Torrent search engines? 

message: I'm not sure where to report this, but this site is using wikipedia material without following licencing requirments.--Peta 01:48, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You can send them a Wikipedia:Standard GFDL violation letter asking them to give credit to Wikipedia -- Lost(talk) 03:21, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

text: And the main place to not this is Wikipedia:Mirrors and forks. - Jmabel | Talk 17:13, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Actually answers.com is a pretty well known mirror site of ours and is already listed in the link directly above your question. -- Lost(talk) 04:09, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Webiste using wikipedia material without compliance to the GFDL

message: On the Copyrights page, it says this in bold:
:Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no Invariant Sections, with no Front-Cover Texts, and with no Back-Cover Texts.
:A copy of the license is included in the section entitled "GNU Free Documentation License".
:Content on Wikipedia is covered by disclaimers. 
It is not, however, explicitly said that this applies to the whole of Wikipedia unless otherwise stated (fair use images etc). I think it should be made clear that it does, because otherwise someone who wants to be a jerk could argue that it applies only to the Wikipedia:Copyrights page itself, or is just an example or whatever. The argument may not be particularly valid, but stupid lawsuits can still take lots of time and money.
The notice that's shown on all pages and when editing does not mention the versions of GFDL that apply, but it should. It should say "Version 1.2 or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation" to avoid any potential problems in the future when new versions of the license are introduced. New versions may e.g. dispense with Invariant Sections, Front-Cover Texts and Back-Cover Texts altogether, as they have been criticized by Debian as being non-free. The license might also be made compatible with some Creative Commons licenses and the GPL, something that just can't be done otherwise. It'd be sad if at that time some disgruntled ex-Wikipedians of the competing future project Trollopedia claimed that "oh, we were only licensing this stuff under the GFDL 1.2, not any future version!" just to cause trouble. As the condition of allowing FSF to change the license you're licensing your work under is rather unconventional and yet is not prominently stated, who knows, they might even have a case. Don't they have all those patently silly warnings in products in the U.S. precisely because some people did patently stupid things with the products and then won lawsuits because the danger wasn't made "clear enough" (common sense be damned)? -- Coffee2theorems | Talk 10:48, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Funny coincidence, almost immediately after I wrote this, the FSF released a new draft of GFDL :-) Looking at things a bit more closely, at least some of my concerns appear unwarranted. The GFDL says "If the Document does not specify a version number of this License, you may choose any version ever published (not as a draft) by the Free Software Foundation.", so at least there isn't room for quibbling about new versions there. -- Coffee2theorems | Talk 11:16, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Clarity of application of GFDL

message: Which copyright license would you guys recommend for an image if the main requirement is attribution (eg. the name of the original photographer)? The Free Software Foundation recommends the Free Art license over Creative Commons licenses, but I'm concerned about where the FAL states "DIRECTIONS FOR USE... if appropriate, specify the names of the previous authors or artists". This sounds like attribution is non-mandatory, unlike CC-by-sa which is explicit about attribution. I'm also not clear on how GFDL deals with attribution. With these licenses, should I / am I allowed to put in a note saying "you must attribute so-and-so"? Thanks. Shawnc 09:50, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe CC-by-sa is considered a "free license" and it would certainly meet your (and our) needs. You can always add another license later. - Jmabel | Talk 02:54, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Which license for attribution requirements? 

message: I've asked what I think is an important question over at Wikipedia talk:Fair use#Fair use where the source is intentionally obscure, and I'd appreciate anyone's input. – Quadell (talk) (random) 17:11, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fair use where the source is intentionally obscure 

message: A user has copy-pasted to the Turkish Wikipedia an article from a commercial site written in Turkish, this text was a translation of an article in the English Wikipedia. Is this submission to the Turkish Wikipedia a copyright violation?--InfoCan 13:57, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The article in the English Wikipedia was under the GNU FDL, not in the Public Domain. The translation was a derivative work of a GFDL text and would have to be licensed under the GFDL, too. Reintroducing the text into another Wikipedia should be okay then. – Things would be different if the original text was really in the Public Domain: the translation is copyrighted and owned by the translator. Rl 15:38, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is translation of a public domain article public domain? 

message: I tried asking this at Wikipedia talk:Free image resources, but apparently no one knows. According to Wikipedia:Free image resources, photos from Expositions - Ministère des Affaires étrangères online photography expositions "are free for any use, provided that they are tagged with the following sentence: "Ministère des Affaires étrangères - Service photographique."([French] Ministry of Foreign Affairs - Photographic Service)]". What is the appropriate copyright tag to put on these photos when they are uploaded? — BrianSmithson 22:41, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: should do the trick! 193.251.1.172 08:30, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Magnifique! Merci beaucoup! — BrianSmithson 09:22, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  French Ministry of Foreign Affairs 

message: After forwarding a consent receipt via email to permissions, how do I acknowledge the source using the  template? I have received consent for Image:Seymour Knox I.jpg and Image:Seymour Knox III, II, and IV.jpg. TonyTheTiger 23:30, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Next step 

message: I noticed that a commercial site in Turkey is harvesting articles from the Turkish language Wikipedia without attribution and backdating their pages to make it look like their version was written first. However their 'bot is incompetently written so some articles still have some Wikipedia code in them and, in one instance, the source of one article says "translated from the English language Wikipedia article ... dated July 2, 2006", while their date is February 22, 2005. The sites legal page states that all rights to the content of the site are reserved and may be used only for personal use. There is no mention of GFDL. What is the proper course of action? --InfoCan 19:03, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia:Mirrors and forks#Non-compliance process --Francis Schonken 19:10, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Placing copyright on material copied from Wikipedia 

message: In the section on Celebrity photographs, it writes:
# Submissions from the celebrity himself or herself or a legal representative of the celebrity.
I think it should be changed to "herself or himself."
Stovetopcookies 00:50, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gender issue 

message: I need some outside assistance and other editor opinions at . There is a User:Durin who, I believe, is carrying copyright status verification to an extreme, wanting personal contact information and private phone numbers for city employees who have verified the copyright status of these flags. That, I believe, is taking things waaaay too far. For that matter, this user seems nice enough, but the project he has about policing fair use images has, in my personal opinion, gotten way out of control to the point that he appears to be stalking the every edit of certian editors, policing user pages for the slightest bit of copyright violation indications, and mass removing images from user pages and other locations. His justification is to enforce the policy and prevent lawsuits to Wikipedia- however some of the image sources (Republic of Turkey, Iraq, etc) probbaly have better things to do than file lawsits (which they would lose) against Wikipedia. I mean no offense to this person, it just seems that we should all remember the policy Wikipedia:Assume good faith. Anyway, extra comments on this flag issue would be welcome. -Husnock 04:39, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Outside assistance 

message: I'm not a fan of the directions in the section "If you find a copyright infringement". What are "rank-and-file Wikipedians", what is their "job", and why isn't it to be vigilant for copyright infringements? Who are the "others" that will examine the situation and take action if needed? Shouldn't we be encouraging all Wikipedians to, if they choose, be involved in the process? This language seems to discourage Wikipedians from contributing to a part of the project, and implies that only elites of some mysterious sort can substantively contribute in the copyright field. Schi 23:09, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Role of Wikipedians

message: Can a title made with WordArt and then saved as a .jpg/.png be uploaded under GFDL? what about if it is trying to emulate the "Steely Dan" of this album (for a WikiProject)? NauticaShades 14:32, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Word(Art) 

message: In :Image:Lapanka zoliborz warszawa Polska 1941.jpg. All we know about the photo is that it was taken in occupied Poland 'secretly'. Author is unknown. It is logical to assume that the author was a member of Polish resistance, and wanted to disseminate the photo (for taking of which he risked his life) without any thoughts for the copyright; he might have died during the war and and in the 50 or so years afterwards. Can we assume public domain or do we have to stick with fair use?-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  17:51, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Weirdly, it's not public domain. Clearly, it is an abandoned copyright. There are many proposals for laws that would put such an image in the public domain, but as far as I'm aware, they all remain merely proposals. It is clearly fair use in the legal sense. I would hope that Wikipedia has the good sense to consider it acceptable fair use under our policies. - Jmabel | Talk 20:46, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: to be copyright it had to follow the copyright rules in 1940s --for USA, it had to be registered at US Copyright Office. That was not done so it was never under US copyright, then or now, I believe. Rjensen 20:50, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think (but am far from sure) that that only apply to stuff first published in the US itself. Unless it as PD in Poland itself before a scertain date (wich escape me at the moment) I think the usual life +70 (or if author is not known 120 years from creation or 95 years from publication (wichever is shorter)) rule apply. --Sherool (talk) 09:59, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Can we presume PD?

message: I believe this is the correct interpretation, this old paragraph that said that fair use was acceptable as long as no free licensed work was available is clearly out of step with the more recent changes to WP:FAIR wich I should take presidence on fair use matters. See also Wikipedia talk:Fair use#how to bring WP:FUC and WP:C into line?. Hopefully this will cut down on the confution about wether or not applying the  tag to images is within policy or not. --Sherool (talk) 16:31, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No good to make such a significant change without allowing for discussion first. You seem to have made the change, then posted to "discussion." Please undo the edit, then we'll discuss the change here. Thanks. Badagnani 06:10, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's been debated plenty see archives of WT:FAIR, mailing list archives, policy vilage pump archices, the talk page of publicity photots essay, Wikiproject fair use talk page , various RFC's etc and naturaly the speedy deletion criterea to enforce it... Fair use policy is detailed on WP:FUC not here, I just fixed the inconsistency between the two that was most likely a caused by a simple oversight in the first place. --Sherool (talk) 07:43, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, Maybe you missed the call for a discussion here, but I had asked for it deliberately after seeing JW's intervention elsewhere in an ongoing RfC in which the longstanding policy figured prominently: We need to try and bring thes policies into line. Any ideas please?. That was most certainly NOT intended to provoke a unilateral change in one of the most important policy pages on the encyclopedia. The meaning of my question is plain...you have pre-empted discussions elsewhere also. This is surely not right. I hope to be able to raise this elsewhere, but in the meantime this was an unfortunate edit. Please reflect on your actions. ...luke 08:31, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As I was trying to point out there have been pleny of disucssion. Not spesificaly here, true, but only because it obviously makes more sense to debate fair use related policy changes on the talk page of the fair use policy. Do you rely think we need to repeat the whole debate just to fix the inconsistency between the two now that the fair use policy have been changed and speedy deletion criterea to enforce it have been added? WP:FUC is unlikely to be overturned any time soon, both Jimbo and Danny seem to favour the current version and the foundation do tend to take a more active part in the forging of copyright related policies than most of the other (for obvious reasons). I'm not trying to kill furter debate on the issue, but as long as WP:FUC is as it is I think it's simply a matter of common sense to keep the policy pages internaly consistent in order to minimise confusion, and like it or not WP:FUC describe how things are corrently working... --Sherool (talk) 09:41, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regarding my recent edit to the fair use section 

message: Can people just change language of this policy without a disscussion? User:Alex_Bakharev carfully changed language (see comparison here) which nullifies a point I have presented in talks going on right now regarding various users systamaticly tagging fair use images which are in need of justification. Hackajar 05:41, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *FYI that language I refer to was first seen July 31, 2006Hackajar 05:48, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

text: The phrase is right if understood in the correct context. It was meant as a friendly introduction, and rarely are friendly introductions wanted in policy that is left to be interpreted, as seen here. Obviously it wasn't ever intended to forbid someone from performing cleanup operations. (Note: I still agree with you on the fair use thing; we should be able to use promophotos under fair use, but this didn't really make a good argument. Nice try though.)--Jeff 06:27, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "If you find copyright Image" 

message: For the article "Nord Stream" and for some bio articles I would like to use some images from the Nord Stream AG image gallery. All this images are protected by following copyright notice: "The content and design of the Web site is subject to copyright. Pages and contents may only be duplicated with the prior agreement of Nord Stream AG, unless the duplication is of a nature which does not need consent, in accordance with legal stipulations." How to understand this part of "unless the duplication is of a nature which does not need consent, in accordance with legal stipulations"? Does that mean that for using in Wikipedia the prior agreement is needed or not? Thank you in advance. Beagel 08:44, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ask for advice

message: Hi, is it allowable to reference radio interviews? If so, is it allowable to upload a radio interview into a free hosting website, and use that as the reference? User:GuardianZ uploaded a radio interview into the free hosting website GoEar.com,  and used that as a reference in the Midnight Syndicate article. Let me know if this violates the copyright policy. Dionyseus 19:12, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Let's let those who know about these policies make a decision. As for the reason, I want to make sure we're not infringing on copyrights. Dionyseus 22:54, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  A question about referencing radio interviews 

message: I just found links in a couple of articles (Amelia Earhart and Joseph McCarthy to http://boomp3.com/, a site that allows anyone to upload audio recordings. While the site does display the message "Please do not upload copyrighed files", I suspect that not everybody pays attention to it. We need to watch this site to see if it will cause any copyvio problems. -- Donald Albury 23:43, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Boomp3.com 

message: The shortcut used to be WP:C, but it was just changed to WP:CR, along with many changes to other pages using that shortcut. Why was this done? This seems like a big change to happen with no discussion beforehand. --Milo H Minderbinder 18:16, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Changed shortcut? 

message: Some articles are so hotly disputed that no addition will be provided unless long excerpts are posted on the talk page to ensure that nothing is misparaphrased or misquoted. When this involves excerpts from another encyclopedia then I think this is a copyright infringement. But I think this is unavoidable or at least I do not know how to avoid it. I intend to do it again to enable me to use other encyclopedias as a source. See here for an example.  Andries 21:22, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If the quotes are short, it is probably fair use. If they are long, it is a copyright violation. Obviously, this is something that could only be decided in court, so be careful; link where possible. Superm401 - Talk 08:58, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Unavoidable breach of copyright on talk page of controversial articles?

message: Does anyone know who holds copyrights of US state seals? What is their copyright status? / Fred-Chess 19:12, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If there are still within the term of copyright, the state would hold it but many probably have other kinds of legal protections. Rmhermen 21:26, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who holds copyrights of US state seals? 

message: If not the Wikimedia Foundation, who exactly owns WP articles' copyrights, anyway? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.38.35.171 (talk) 05:49, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The people who wrote them. --Sherool (talk) 08:19, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

text: Every day from January 15, 2001 to the present. It is an ongoing project. -- Donald Albury 00:33, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Who Owns?