Talk:DeVry University

message: Right now the Curriculum section is unfocused and basically unreferencable. Here's how I'd rewrite it:
*Discuss general program emphasis and scheduling (this can cite marketing copy, but a third-party summary would be nice)
*List major and notable programs (a good project for someone with WP:COI)
*Discuss notable program details (eg: before the last cleanup there was a comment that they were "engineering technology" degrees, which I thought was interesting and I'd like to see back in there if we can find a source explaining the difference)
Vagary 02:13, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not actually sure if DeVry specialises in anything in particular although it does appear to have a business bias.  A bit like University of Nottingham - no real specialisation.  Which is why I think we may as well put them into groups (business, bioinformatics, etc.) rather than a list of courses, and find a list of courses as a reference and stick that in.  That makes it a lot less like an advertisement and sensible.  x42bn6 Talk 17:34, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Curriculum

message: This article claims that DeVry University is a university system. I contest that claim. DeVry University is accredited by the North Central Association of Colleges and Schools as a single university, not a university system. Compare that to the University of Wisconsin System, which has each university within the system accredited separately by the same accrediting body that accredits DeVry. Some may point out that each DeVry campus is separately accredited by the Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology, but that is because ABET's rules require it for all multi-campus institutions. (The North Central Association provides institutional accreditation. ABET only provides program accreditation.)
Furthermore, everything I've seen on DeVry's web site suggests that DeVry considers itself to be a single university, rather than a university system. That is the true test because the real difference between a multiple-campus university and a university system is the amount of autonomy of the individual campuses. --JHP 03:00, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: University system?

message: "Information is not entropy, a great part of the entropy is misiformation, wikipedia is not in anyway a version of a neutral entropy" --codeplowed--Veritas Longa15:51, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: On the best interest of the readers

message: DeVry has some accreditation for its Associates in Electronics Engineering Technology and Health Information Technology that could be added to the article if anyone cares. (For the latter, I would suggest that it is not notable unless an article for Commission on Accreditation for Health Informatics and Information Management Education is.) Vagary 02:04, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Program Accreditation 

message: Should these be separate articles or is it to difficult to tell exactly where the boundaries between the organizations are? If they remain separate, the timeline from DeVry University#History should be moved to DeVry Inc. and expanded for recent acquisitions. Vagary (talk) 19:22, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: support with Devry as the merge target (i.e. make "DeVry University" a redirect to Devry, the reverse of the current situation), tags should be put on both articles for a while first. The table with column header accreditation which doesn't appear to be anything of the sort and the empty People section both look really bad. What is "ABET"? Lycurgus (talk) 19:46, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge with [[DeVry Inc.]]? 

message: *Proposing per WP:SYNTH:
::"The estimated cost of a 4-year bachelor's degree at DeVry University is approximately $94,000 for students graduating in normal time.[37] Its default rate is approximately 24% [38] Devry's graduation rate is approximately 31%[39] and its job placement rate is either unreported or unknown."
:::The CollegeCalc source indicates per semester in Michigan with total over four years added together. Cost is different at each school: [colleges.findthebest.com/q/99/20/How-much-is-tuition-at-DeVry-University-Arizona Arizona] is 60. NJ is 90. Maryland is 110, etc. Same for default rate, graduation rate, can look into those also.
:::Imo the paragraph is confusing as school has various locations. Lmk. Jppcap (talk) 01:49, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  Removing confusing/inconsistent paragraph on cost, rates as info varies. Jppcap (talk) 01:08, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Estimated cost

message: The section is unbalanced and gives undue weight to negative lawsuits against the subject. Content appears to be cherry-picked to show only negative suits.
"In the context of editing an article, cherrypicking, in a negative sense, means selecting information without including contradictory or significant qualifying information from the same source and consequently misrepresenting what the source says. This applies both to quotations and to paraphrasings." - WP:CHERRYPICKING
See also WP:NPOV. 
— Dm382triuss (talk) 20:58, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: There are two sides to every story. I say change the section if it hasn't been done yet. 2600:387:15:14:0:0:0:4 (talk) 04:32, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality tag on Class action suits section 

message: While cleaning up the article, I noticed the following citation in § History §§ DeVry Education Group (permanent link):
I have extensively searched for this article, but there appears to be no record of it whatsoever. Not only does there appear to be no article with that title or anything close to it in existence from any author or source, especially not from Crain's Chicago Business; but any article from this Janet Neiman person is difficult to find, so difficult that the only evidence I found of the author's existence as a writer for the newspaper is limited to "By: Janet Neiman" attributions for a few obscure print articles in 2000 which are restricted behind a subscription paywall (such as this and this). After searching WikiBlame to identify the original inclusion of this source, it appears that it was originally added by  in this May 2014 edit. Since this citation has been live on this article since then, various mirrors have replicated it for years, which has overwhelmingly polluted the search results.
Given (or perhaps despite) the user's contributions, and given and the aforementioned issues with this citation, I am tempted to suspect that this source was fabricated.  Nonetheless, I am noting it here with the hope that another editor could find a URL to this source, even if it is an archived copy, because I cannot. Due to the citation's title, date, and publisher, I suspect it would be a strong source to cite for DeVry's reported June 1991 initial public offering (IPO). Unfortunately, I have found no other source that significantly talks about DeVry's IPO and most of the mentions I have found are either vague and in passing or appear to have derived from this very article (i.e., circular reporting). The best and closest I have found thus far is this 1993 article in the Chicago Tribune, which states:
If any editor could find a better source, please do add it. In the meantime, I have removed that old citation and replaced it with the aforementioned 1993 article, and I tagged the new citation with . (Here is the diff.) If nothing else, perhaps what I have documented above will be useful to someone in the future, especially given how many times the citation has been mirrored. ―Nøkkenbuer (talk • contribs) 08:03, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fabricated citation? Better source needed for DeVry's IPO 

message: The further I investigate DeVry and information about it, the less clear and consistent are the data I find about it. Now, I am discovering that the enrollment numbers for DeVry are all over the place. For example, the current source we are citing in the article states the following:
It is from those data that the  claim in § Enrollment (permanent link) is derived. However, after doing some searching, I have found at least two alternative values. According to the U.S. News & World Report Best Colleges Ranking (source), in what seems to be 2018, DeVry saw a total enrollment of 36,653 students, 27,137 of whom were undergraduates (apparently 2016 school year data?) and 9,516 of whom were graduates. Meanwhile, TheBestSchools.com reports in their undated article list (last updated 31 December 2015) simply "Enrollment 76,000" for DeVry University. Quite frankly, given the number of campus locations, the consistently decreasing enrollment in recent years, and the fact that student population statistics for DeVry appear to be almost nonexistent and most all are for specific campus locations (between tens and thousands per location), I would not be surprised with any of the values given above. Reporting on more than one value for the same enrollment period or year would already look terrible, however, much worse three or more.
Which value, if any, should I use? Is there a better source available than the ones listed above? Or will this just be yet another case of DeVry's proprietary opacity obscuring public information about even its most basic attributes as a university? Any input on this matter would be appreciated. ―Nøkkenbuer (talk • contribs) 18:45, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: No, two of the sources you mentioned - U.S. News & World Report and TheBestSchools.com - use data that are at least a year old if not older.  It's quite common for data like this to be a year or two "old" compared to the current date e.g., IPEDS data, Common Data Set data, survey responses from last year (that may have used the Common Data Set data that was then available).  The Inside Higher story has much more current data and should be used unless there are data that are even more up-to-date. ElKevbo (talk) 19:28, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the reply, . I was frankly not expecting one, given how quiet this talk page has been, so I posted to WT:UNI. I had not seen your reply when I posted it. Anyway, I'm glad we agree on using the Inside Higher Ed source. I didn't want to prejudice the responses, but that was the one I trusted most here, which is why I left it in the article. I'll leave data as it is. Were it not for the lack of clear dating on the other two sources, I would have considered including them as previous enrollment information to give the Enrollment section some more context. ―Nøkkenbuer (talk • contribs) 19:43, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Enrollment numbers? 

message: There may have to be some ancillary changes made to account for the handover from Adtalem. To begin with, DeVry University is still placed within the Adtalem Global Education category.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Belisariussmith (talk • contribs) 16:45, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Transfer to Cogswell Education 

message: and other independent editors. Thank you for reviewing the updates above. As I disclosed, I have a conflict of interest as an employee of DeVry University.  Once again, as instructed on Wikipedia’s Contact Us page [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_subjects for the subjects of articles to request corrections, I’m posting the following items for consideration. These are mostly all small factual corrections to content already in the article. Thanks for your consideration.
1.	In Section: Location and campus closures, Subsection: campus closures, sentence #2, please delete: 
The closures occurred in Kansas City, Denver, Memphis, Houston, St. Louis, and Tampa.
Please replace it with:
The closures included Kansas City; Memphis; Houston; St. Louis; Tampa; , Greenwood Village, Colorado; Edina, Minnesota, Milwaukee, Maryland Heights, Missouri.
Explanation: Denver should not be included. The location of the closure in Colorado was in Greenwood Village, not Denver, as explained in the source. I also added the names of the other locations that were closed. The source is the same. 
2.	In Section: Location and campus closures, the third paragraph:
Delete: List of DeVry campuses and learning centers :
Insert: List of DeVry campuses and learning centers as of 2020.
Explanation: I changed the sentence so it reads 2020 instead of 2019 - used the Wayback machine, I created a new citation that establishes the date of the web page.
3.	In Section: Location and campus closures, in the list following the third paragraph, please remove the following locations:   California Location: Colton (Inland-Empire) Center; California Location: Pomona Campus; Illinois Location: Chicago O'Hare Center; Illinois Location: Downers Grove Center.
This is the new list with the removed locations:
Arizona (672 students)
* Glendale Center 
* Mesa Center 
* Phoenix Campus 
California (2,980 students)
* Folsom Campus 
* Fresno Campus 
* Long Beach Campus 
* Newark Campus 
* San Diego Campus 
* San Jose Center 
* Sherman Oaks Campus 
* Twentynine Palms Extension 
Colorado (221 students) 
* Westminster (Denver) Campus 
Florida (976 students) 
* Jacksonville Campus 
* Miramar Campus 
* Orlando Campus 
Georgia (1,341 students) 
* Alpharetta Campus 
* Atlanta Cobb Galleria Center 
* Decatur Campus 
* Duluth Center 
* Stockbridge (Henry County) Center 
Illinois (16,964 students, includes online) 
* Addison Campus 
* Chicago Campus 
* Chicago Loop Campus 
* Gurnee Center 
* Naperville Center 
* Tinley Park Campus 
Indiana (86 students) 
* Merrillville Center 
Missouri (191 students) 
* Kansas City Campus 
Nevada (171 students) 
* Henderson Campus 
New Jersey (578 students) 
* North Brunswick Campus 
* Paramus Center 
New York (1,528 students) 
* Brooklyn Extension 
* Midtown Manhattan Campus 
* Rego Park (Queens) Center 
North Carolina (197 students) 
* Charlotte Campus 
* Raleigh Center 
Ohio (1,096 students) 
* Cincinnati Campus 
* Columbus Campus 
* Seven Hills (Cleveland) Campus 
Pennsylvania (401 students)
* Ft. Washington Center 
* Philadelphia Center 
Tennessee (99 students) 
* Nashville Campus 
Texas (780 students) 
* Austin Campus 
* Irving Campus 
* San Antonio Campus 
Virginia (436 students)
* Arlington Campus 
* Chesapeake Campus
Explanation: A May 2020 source, established from the Wayback Machine, shows that these are the current campus locations. While this is primary source, the information is non-controversial, so it should be acceptable. WP: Primary. 
4a.	In Section: Academics, for the third paragraph, the sentence should have a new source, given below:
The Keller Graduate School of Management offers the following master's degree programs: 
Explanation:  The source now on Wikipedia does not have this information (the programs). The new source I have includes the programs that are current. While this is a primary source, the information is non-controversial, so it should be acceptable. WP: Primary.
4b. Consistent with the information in the new source,  please delete: 
Accounting  (MSAC), Accounting & Financial Management (MAFM), Network & Communications Management (MNCM) and “Business Administration (MBA”).
* Business Administration (MBA)
* Accounting (MSAC)
* Accounting & Financial Management (MAFM)
* Human Resources Management (MHRM)
* Information Systems Management (MISM)
* Network & Communications Management (MNCM)
* Project Management (MPM)
* Public Administration (MPA)
The new list should read::
* Human Resource Management
* Business Intelligence and Analytics (MBA)
* Entrepreneurship (MBA)
* General (MBA)
* Global Supply Chain Management (MBA)
* Human Resources (MBA)
* Information Systems Management (MBA)
* Marketing (MBA)
* Project Management (MBA)
* Project Management
* Public Administration
Explanation: These are the current programs according to the most recent information in the citation.. |website=devry.edu While this is a primary source, the information is non-controversial, so it should be acceptable. WP: Primary
5.  In Section: Locations and campus closures, sentence # 2, please delete:
DeVry University also has a presence at two military installations: Fort Leavenworth, Kansas and Twentynine Palms, California.
Please replace it with:
DeVry University has a presence at one military installation at Twentynine Palms, California.
Explanation: A current source shows that DeVry no longer has a presence at Fort Leavenworth.  While this is a primary source, the information is non-controversial, so it should be acceptable. WP: Primary. 
6. In Section: Locations and campus closures, in the bulleted list of locations, please remove the location “*Twentynine Palms Extension” and replace it with the accurate name:  “Twentynine Palms Military Base Extension” This is the new list with the corrected location name:
List of DeVry campuses and learning centers :
Arizona (672 students)
* Glendale Center 
* Mesa Center 
* Phoenix Campus 
California (2,980 students)
* Colton (Inland-Empire) Center 
* Folsom Campus 
* Fresno Campus 
* Long Beach Campus 
* Newark Campus 
* Pomona Campus 
* San Diego Campus 
* San Jose Center 
* Sherman Oaks Campus 
* Twentynine Palms Military Base Extension”
Explanation: A current source refers to the Twentynine Palms location as Twentynine Palms Military Base Extension. While this is a primary source, the information is non-controversial, so it should be acceptable. WP: Primary. 
7. In Section: Academics, please delete paragraph #1:
DeVry University's academic offerings are organized into five colleges: The College of Business & Management, which includes Keller Graduate School of Management; The College of Engineering & Information Sciences; The College of Health Sciences; The College of Liberal Arts & Sciences, which includes the School of Education; and The College of Media Arts & Technology.The colleges offer a range of associate's, bachelor's and master's degree programs. DeVry University also offers graduate certificates.
Please replace it with:
DeVry University offers undergraduate and graduate programs onsite and online within its six areas of study: Accounting, Business, Healthcare, Technology, Liberal Arts, and Media Arts & Technology.
Explanation: The DeVry University site currently uses this phrasing to convey its academic offerings. While this is a primary source, the information is non-controversial, so it should be acceptable. WP: Primary. 
Thank you so much for your consideration. NaturaRagazza (talk) 15:58, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: The edit request backlog is insane!  Darth Flappy «Talk» 18:28, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Request Edits July 23

message: I am submitting the following proposed changes for independent editors to evaluate, in accordance with the directions at Wikipedia's Contact Us  page. As I have a conflict of interest as an employee of DeVry University, I’d request that an independent editor please review these proposals. 
1. Please replace the first sentence in the second paragraph of the lead that reads: “DeVry University has been involved in numerous investigations, lawsuits, and settlements, mostly regarding their inflated claims about the employment rates and salaries of its graduates, as well as regarding education quality and loan practices.”
WITH: 
DeVry University has been involved in numerous investigations, lawsuits, and settlements alleging fraudulent claims about post-graduate employment rates and incomes. DeVry has denied the allegations.
Explanation: Adds several sources to replace the LA Times article - which doesn’t mention DeVry at all (or the claims of the lawsuits). Rewrites the sentence to clarify the lawsuits were based on allegations not proven findings, and provides a denial from DeVry to provide a neutral point of view WP: BALANCE.  Even the major settlement denied wrongdoing, as reported by the sources. 
2. In the  lead, please move the second and third sentences in the second paragraph that reads “It was one of the universities highlighted in the 2018 documentary Fail State.. Murray Hastie, an Iraq War veteran with post-traumatic stress disorder, told his story about how he ended up with $50,000 in student loan debt after his experience at DeVry.” 
TO THE SECTION investigations, lawsuits, and settlements in chronological order (after the paragraph beginning “In May 2017, the Higher Learning Commission designated DeVry….”). Update the sentence to read:
It was one of the universities highlighted in the 2017 documentary Fail State alleging bad practices by for-profit universities. In the documentary, an Iraq War veteran with post-traumatic stress disorder said he ended up with $50,000 in student loan debt after his education at DeVry.
”
Explanation: The lead is for a “nutshell” summary of the most important info on the body of the article, not to promote a specific source. WP:MOSLEAD There is already a nutshell  reference to controversial allegations in the lead, with suggested citations from many highly credible sources, and a denial from DeVry. The documentary’s specific allegations should be moved to the body of the article, in the extended section about “Investigations, lawsuits, and settlements.” The WSJ article currently in the article does not mention DeVry.
3. Move the last paragraph in the lead that reads 
In 2014, accumulated student loan debt from DeVry University and Keller, its graduate school, was about $12.1 billion. For the 2018-19 academic year, the amount that all undergraduate students received in federal student loans was $69.42 million.
To be the last sentence in the subsection “Student Outcomes”.
Explanation:  Inclusion of projected university or college student debt is not standard Wikipedia Good Article practice for including in the lead of articles about educational institutions. See, for example,  Durham University, Columbia University and University of California, Santa Cruz -- or any other college listed at WP:Good articles/Social sciences and society#Education. This paper presented at a conference is not about DeVry, but the general problem of federal student debt across all educational institutions. The DeVry info is pulled from a table with info about many schools. 
NaturaRagazza (talk) 18:50, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request Edits February 2021