Talk:Harajuku

message: This article has a long way to go. Although I would imagine that all the various subcultures and fashions have their own articles, to see them so unrepresented here is strange. The whole thing seems only a very superficial, brief overview.
(1) Explain out the misconceptions. People think it's a teenage hangout for the trendy kids, which isn't really true because LaForet, GAP, etc are a bit closer to Omotesando and a great deal different from the kind of subculture you see in "ura-hara" or Takeshita-dori....
(2) Explain out the unique role Harajuku has played in subculture fashion, etc etc, particularly the area around Yoyogi Bridge (or whatever it's called)
(3) Expansion and added depth overall. Bigger and better pictures would be great too. I actually have a number I could offer, but I'm sure plenty of other editors do too. A view of the station, of Takeshita-dori... LordAmeth 09:20, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Project Assessment

message: radical, cutting-edge casual fashion designs -- Does this mean anything, and if so, what? -- Hoary 00:40, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: PS I rewrote this crapola as something shorter. -- Hoary 11:56, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fashionable buzzwords

message: "Harajuku is, as of 2005, a major theme in the show of American singer Gwen Stefani, who uses four female dancers dressed like Harajuku girls to form her background act."
Thanks for the good wording; in fact she USES them. The word must stay in, since she treats them and nicknames them as if they were some sorts of pet puppies or something.
No doubt (sic!) that she hurts the feelings of many lovers of the Japanese culture because she just puts them in a ridiculous kinda light.
-andy
80.129.90.34 11:54, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: from the page history it looks like that phrasing is from my humble self ;-). I must profess to a lack of familiarity with Ms. Stefani and her girls, and have not encountered her in the general media either here in Europe or in Japan, despite lengthy stays in the immediate vicinity of Harajuku Station. Only the fact that I have heard of her via the BBC prevented me from wiping the reference entirely. Personally I wouldn't be sad if someone comes up with a paragraph or two describing the influence of Harajuku in overseas popular culture, tangentially referencing the aforesaid popular singer if relevant. I for one am already well over 30 and therefore no longer qualified to comment on trends popular amongst the younger generation. Ianb 19:53, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: A simpler way to avoid criticism from people would be to rephrase it as "incorporates" as opposed to "uses". TheMonkofDestiny 11:25, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Based on my limited exposure to Gwen Stefani, I'd have to say that her Harajuku Girls may have been inspired in some vague way by Harajuku fashions (also by the movie Cabaret, and perhaps a dream about Marie Antionette), but there really isn't a strong link. adamrice 15:10, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  OH Please some put down a definition !!! Harajuku :  from the japanese, Fashion Kill "Literally" ie. in the sense of "punks" in the U.K. circa '75 and on  excuse the hirrid punctuaytion but this topic must have attention, yeas i love you librarioans with an adonic shine of the first magnitude but please this is a thread of relevance to Global Culture
Once more please, in English this time. adamrice 15:57, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

text: Thanks for the Dojunkai article Sparkzilla 11:41, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Gwen Stefani, etc 

message: I've removed this:
The American singer Gwen Stefani mentions Harajuku in several of her songsIn her songs, Stefani mispronounces the word Harajuku. Instead of the Japanese pronunciation , Stefani says "hair-ajuku," though the Japanese speakers on her album pronounce the word correctly. and has incorporated four female dancers, "Love," "Angel," "Music," and "Baby," dressed like Americanised Harajuku girls, into her background act. A song is dedicated to them on her solo debut album Love. Angel. Music. Baby., titled "Harajuku Girls" and the word "原宿" (Harajuku) is depicted on the stage surface during her music video for "Hollaback Girl". Her use--or appropriation--of Harajuku girls and Harajuku fashion has been criticized by a number of Asian-Americans, notably Margaret Cho, for perpetuating stereotypes of submissive Asian women.MiHi Ahn, "Gwenihana: Gwen Stefani neuters Japanese street fashion to create spring's must-have accessory: Giggling geisha!". Slant magazine stated that the album's "obsession with Harajuku girls borders on maniacal".Cinquemani, Sal. "Music Review: Gwen Stefani: Love. Angel. Music. Baby.". Slant. 2004. Retrieved March 17, 2007. Stefani has also released a line of clothing and accessories called "Harajuku Lovers" with designs similar to Hello Kitty-style children's products.Site
because the version of Harajuku of a single US pop singer seemed peculiarly trivial, or anyway to say a lot more about her and her fans than about Harajuku. -- Hoary 13:40, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Though I'm no fan of Stefani, the reaction to her fetishization of Harajuku is notable. I added the ref to Margaret Cho (even though it's a blog) and to Stefani's rebuttal in Entertainment Weekly and condensed the text...
The American singer Gwen Stefani mentions Harajuku and Harajuku Girls in several of her songs as well as having a fashion line called "Harajuku Lovers". Stefani's use of Harajuku has been described as "maniacal"Cinquemani, Sal. "Music Review: Gwen Stefani: Love. Angel. Music. Baby.". Slant. 2004. Retrieved March 17, 2007. and has been criticized by a number of Asian-Americans, notably Margaret Cho , for perpetuating stereotypes of submissive Asian women.MiHi Ahn, "Gwenihana: Gwen Stefani neuters Japanese street fashion to create spring's must-have accessory: Giggling geisha!" In response to Cho's comment that the girls were "a minstrel show" Stefani responded "The truth is that I basically was saying how great that culture is." 
-- Sparkzilla talk! 15:12, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

text: This may tell us something about Stefani. Does it tell us anything non-trivial about Harajuku? -- Hoary 15:22, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If the sources were poorer I would definitely say no, but given that there is a faily well-sourced (minor) controversy surrounding Stefani's use of Harajuku as a brand, then it is reasonable to have a brief mention of it here. -- Sparkzilla talk! 15:32, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

text: What about the short one. Do you think it should be in this article? -- Sparkzilla talk!
Right. Harajuku girl doesn't explicitly say that "Harajuku girl" is an English term, but (surprise surprise) "girl" isn't a Japanese word: at best, "Harajuku girl" is a real concept that has an entirely different name in Japanese, or a term that's a translation or assimilated version of a Japanese term. Harajuku gyaru or similar is imaginable but I don't think it's used. I can't think of anything in Japanese (which proves nothing) and neither could an L1 Japanese speaker I've asked just now (which does). Moreover, I note that the article Harajuku girl doesn't link to an equivalent in ja:WP. So the article Harajuku girl seems to be about some US-centered fantasy about girls who frequent Harajuku. The article seems an ideal dumping ground for Stefani's addition to the fantasy, and the "controversy" about this. I don't see any reason for the Harajuku article itself to mention Stefani. (If she'd frequently held concerts in Harajuku, or had a famous shop in Harajuku, that would be different.) -- Hoary 15:54, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Come to think of it, the Harajuku girl article should probably be exclusively about Stefani's .... erm.... backup dancers?  As for this article, I think it would be fine to indicate that Stefani attempted to capitalize on the fashion cred of the area by linking the image with her music and clothing line, but I don't think we need an extended discussion of it. Exploding Boy 16:33, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

text: While I don't think the "Harajuku girl" article is much good, I do think it is reasonable to have one: the phrase has achieved some currency in English--kicked off by Gwen Stefani, of course, but it has taken on a life of its own, and does not (as I've encountered it) refer to GS' backup dancers anymore. The fact that the phrase comes from English, not Japanese, does not invalidate it. If we can have 和製英語, a little 英製和語 isn't going to kill us. adamrice 22:03, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I guess it was just a matter of time: I've had my first encounter with the use of "Harajuku girl" by a native speaker of Japanese. To be clear, I'm confident this is sort of a reverse-borrowing from English, but there it is. adamrice (talk) 16:24, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Harajuku according to a US pop singer

message: I think the best way to expand this article will be to decide on some general way to split this article up into sections.  Right now the text flows well, and I hate to disrupt it, but it might do better to break it up into "Location", "History", "Subcultures" etc.  Or perhaps another way entirely.  I have a few good resources to add to this article as well. Denaar 22:04, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why break it up? It's an area of Tokyo with lots of clothes shops. -- Hoary 13:00, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Article Expansion

message: :I'm puzzled by the recent insistence by some IP that some US pop singer pushed Harajuku into "mainstream society". Stefani has an article. Her clothes brand has an article. Her dancers have an article. But that's not enough: this article too must kowtow to US marketing, it seems. -- Hoary 13:00, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We already have a link to her dance troop in the "See Also" as well as a link to the disambiguation page at the top - I really see no need for this info here too. Denaar 14:59, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "Mainstream"

message: The article cites:
:Perry, Chris Rebels on the Bridge: Subversion, Style, and the New Subculture 
This appears to require a plug-in, and is on a site that seems to be the text equivalent of Flickr: there's no editorial control. I see no reason why it should be taken seriously and propose to delete any mention of it. -- Hoary (talk) 10:49, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The more I think of this, the more obvious its unsuitability is as a source. Not that I'm knocking it (I can't even read it); I'm merely knocking problems inherent in its publication. Anyway, I'm removing mention of it. -- Hoary (talk) 12:20, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You are right, it is not a credible source. Most of the references for this article are not. 220.253.200.154 (talk) 12:57, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: scribd.com source