Talk:Crown Dependencies

message: Are Channel Island currencies accepted in the UK, like Scottish and Northern Irish are (even if the shopkeeper thinks you are strange)?
: See British banknotes and Legal tender. But generally not worth the bother trying in England - exchange them at par in a bank.
:Man vyi 17:43, Sep 23, 2004 (UTC)
"Like Scottish notes, they are not legal tender within the UK, but are sometimes accepted particularly at UK ports of arrival from the Channel Islands." This is confusing, Scotland is part of the UK. Should it say England and Wales?
:Please see the articles referenced above. The quotation is correct, as Scottish notes are not legal tender in any part of the UK, including Scotland. 82.152.178.215 21:46, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Currency

message: Interesting that the official British monarchy pages on this subject refers to the Crown dependencies as being "dependent territories of the English Crown"... mistake or a technicality?
http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/Page4676.asp
Does the Wikipedia article address this in any way? David (talk) 02:12, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I looked into this, but could not find anything definite. It would be similar to the situtation that countries formed prior to the formation of the UKofGBandNI have. For example, Canada's constitution referes to the crown and queen of the UKofGBandI, but that crown no longer exists either. Quick reading of the various Acts constituting the settlement of the crown and the formation of the Union would also modify the crowns passage. So, the wording is correct, but subsequent changes makes it technically not so. But I will send an email to Man's Parliament and see if they have an opinion on this.Gary Joseph (talk) 09:46, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  English Crown? 

message: Taken from the first line of the current (14/06/08, 1:00 GMT) version of this page:
"The Crown Dependencies are possessions of The Crown in Right of the United Kingdom, as opposed to overseas territories or colonies of the United Kingdom."
Both Crown dependencies and overseas territories link to the correct pages, after all they are terms used by the British government and have a commonly accepted meaning.  On the other hand, 'Colonies' links to a generic article about 19'th century empire building with some weak logic linking it to today's 'colonies'.  I am not a regular editor on wikipedia, and accordingly I will not edit this page, but I believe that this reference is not NPOV.
Would it be possible for those who currently upkeep this article reconsider this particular entry?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.205.127.145 (talk) 00:04, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Colonies? 

message: No move Parsecboy (talk) 13:23, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Oppose See , they are known as Crown Dependencies, the one example you picked up has a capitilisation error.  As I said on your talk page, I presume this is a good faith edit but by actually changing the name you would confuse rather than educate the reader.  Regards, Justin talk 11:49, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Comment. A notice at your linked page clearly says: "This site is no longer updated and is retained for archive purpose only. The Ministry of Justice is now responsible for this information." AND the link I provided is just from the UK Ministry of Justice website. How can we conclude that my page has an error and your page has not? And even on the page you provied, the singular form Crown Dependency is also used. According to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (plurals), page title should be in the singular unless that term is always in a plural form in English. Therefore Crown Dependencies should be at least moved to Crown Dependency. Thanks. --Neo-Jay (talk) 12:23, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: See also , , . It seems to me, but this is hardly scientific, that in the Crown Dependencies the term is generally capitalised, but since the words "Bailiwick" and "Island" are regularly capitalised as well in the Channel Islands, this may be a function of style and usage in English that is not as generally favoured outside the CDs. Man vyi (talk) 12:26, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: But I can also find pages like this from Isle of Man Government website, which use lowercased Crown dependency. And, please notice that the pages you provided also use the singular form Crown Dependency. That means that this article should at least be renamed to singular title.--Neo-Jay (talk) 12:34, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not claiming there's any consistency between, or within, countries; neither am I arguing for or against singular or plural. I think all I did was point out the likely lack of any consistency to be found in appealing to external documents such as . Man vyi (talk) 12:52, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: And further inconsistency: we have British overseas territories but Crown colony. Man vyi (talk) 12:55, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Many thanks. If there is likely lack of any consistency in external documents, then we should follow Wikipedia's naming conventions including Wikipedia:Naming conventions (capitalization) and Wikipedia:Naming conventions (plurals). --Neo-Jay (talk) 13:03, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No you're incorrect.  Crown Dependencies is the correct term used for the collective group of territories that includes the Isle of Man, Jersey and Guernsey, each of which is a Crown Dependency.  This article concerns the Crown Dependencies.  British overseas territories isn't usually capitalised, whereas Crown Dependency or Crown Dependencies is.  See , ,  for example, all of which are official HMG documents.  Finding incorrect use of the term on a few websites is not a justification for repeating the mistake on Wikipedia.  We should strive for accuracy.  Justin talk 14:00, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

text: I can see your point.  I think this article does, to a certain extent, describe the Crown Dependencies in a similar way to the chicken - defining as it does what a Crown Dependency is with reference to the UK and EU.  But I don't have any strong objection to the plural version - there is some sense to it and IMO it is justifiable through policy. Pfainuk talk 00:44, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Requested move

message: The Relations with the EU section has a very large hole.  It does not give any explanation of why the CDs are not in the EU.  Who decided? When? Why? Where? --Red King (talk) 22:54, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: As for Jersey, the States voted in November 1967 to request the UK, in its negotiations to join the EEC, to negotiate a deal that would leave Jersey outside, but would permit the retention of Jersey's historic access to UK markets. Man vyi (talk) 06:48, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why did they not join the EU at the same time as the UK, or subsequently? 

message: The article states that dependencies are administrated independently. Is that supposed to make some sort of sense or simply an intention to believe in something which is not true? Sounds like a type of Soviet Union situation only with the Crown :). Kind of independent, but really not. It sounds that their parliament acts more of an advising government body rather than the real parliament. That does make sense, Otherwise they would be called Independencies (just kidding).
:Dependencies simply refers to the fact that other than relying on the UK for Foreign Relations and Defence, they govern themselves.  Its not unheard of for small island states to associate with a larger state for historical or other reasons eg Faroe Islands and Denmark.  See also St Pierre, Miquelon and France.  They're more common than you might realise.  Justin talk 19:16, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  The article sounds kind of strange. 

message: King Henry III of England renounced the title of "Duke of Normandy" in 1259, by the Treaty of Paris negotiated with Louis IX of France.  Thereafter the Channel Islands were retained by England as French fiefs under the control of the Duke of Aquitaine (the French peerage which the English king retained).  But after 1340, King Edward III claimed to be King of France as well as of England, which meant that he now claimed to rule the Channel Islands directly as King, not as Duke of Aquitaine. In 1360, Edward (temporarily) abandoned the claim to be King of France, but by treaty took direct possession of the Channel Islands, which then ceased to be French.  The title of "Duke of Normandy" was not resurrected; Edward resumed the title of Duke of Aquitaine, which he held until 1369, when he again claimed the French throne, a claim that the English kings would retain in name until 1801.
It is therefore legally incorrect to say that the British monarch is Duke of Normandy in the Channel Islands, although the myth is widely repeated, especially among Channel Islanders. In fact Queen Elizabeth II rules the Channel Islands as Queen, not as Duke (or Duchess); that is the legal, if not the sentimental, situation.  The Channel Islands are not a part of the Duchy of Normandy, which has not existed, from the point of view of the Crown, since 1259. RandomCritic (talk) 02:35, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: British Monarchy GBozanko (talk) 15:30, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: No one is disputing the loss of peninsular Normandy from the English crown. However the remnants of 'insular Normandy' do belong to the Crown, and this is why the title 'Duke of Normandy' has been perpetuated to the present day. You may not like it, but this is the only constitutional reason why the Channel Islands are associated with the Crown. They are not part of the United Kingdom of Great Britiain and Northern Ireland. Since the Royal website states clearly that HM The Queen is Duke of Normandy, and Her Majesty The Queen herself regards herself as Duke of Normandy, we'll have to go along with it, whether you like it or not. You are entitled to your opinion, as well as the learned sources you have cited are entitled to their opinion, but on this matter, (as well as others associated with honours), Her Majesty outranks you. Ds1994 (talk) 18:50, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Duchy of Normandy 

message: Bailiwick of Guernsey
Main article: Bailiwick of Guernsey
. . . 
Guernsey has its own separate international vehicle registrations (GBG – Guernsey, GBA – Alderney), internet domain (.gg – Guernsey), and ISO 3166-2 codes, first reserved on behalf of the Universal Postal Union (GGY – Guernsey) and then added officially by the International Organization for Standardization on 29 March 2006. In such case the GBG on a numberplate is only put on the number plate of a car or motorbike at the request of the vehicle owner and is not compulsory, however a motorbike/scooter can have an identical number as a car, i.e. 5432 on 2 wheels and on 4 wheels.
The section pasted above is quite confusing. Unfortunately I do not have a clue how to make it clear since I don't understand it!
Jalapama (talk) 06:06, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confusing at best 

message: In place of "none forms part of the United Kingdom nor of the European Union" can we say "none forms part of the United Kingdom or of the European Union"? Any opposition to the change? --Kushal (talk) 23:47, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: That's not correct anyhow. It isn't as simple as that.  The islands are within the UK border (for immigration purposes), and they're also part of the European Union Customs Union, but not full members of the EU. Danrok (talk) 11:21, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Quote from the citation used "They have an important relationship with the United Kingdom because of their status as dependencies of the British Crown but they are not part of the United Kingdom nor, except to a limited extent, the European Union." Danrok (talk) 11:43, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The CDs are part of the Common Travel Area, but not within UK borders (UK Border Agency has no jurisdiction). Quotes from the UK Ministry of Justice Background briefing on the Crown Dependencies : "Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man are not part of the UK but are self-governing dependencies of the Crown.", "The Crown Dependencies are not members of the European Union but have a special relationship with the EU". I'm quite happy with the "none... or..." formulation grammatically. Man vyi (talk) 16:29, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: so the consensus is no change, right? Kushal (talk) 11:00, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussion request 

message: This article says that there are three Crown Dependencies: Guernsey, Jersey and the Isle of Man. But it then says that Sark is "a Crown Dependency in its own right." That makes four. Does anyone know enough about this abstruse subject to fix this? 197.162.105.180 (talk) 20:46, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradictory 

message: Hi I removed the "basic forms of government" template  as it doesn't seem to have its place in the middle of this article but I may be wrong! Domdeparis (talk) 14:02, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Basic forms of government template 

message: In these two edits by , Brecqhou and Herm were added as flags for the Bailiwick of Guernsey, in parallel with those of Guernsey, Alderney, and Sark. However, Brecqhou is a "tenement of Sark", and Herm is "part of the Parish of St Peter Port" (according to those articles). Additionally, there seems to be some question as to whether the flags shown are "official" (here and the unclear sourcing here). I corrected the spelling and tweaked the table formatting a bit, but should these two rows be handled differently or removed? —[AlanM1(talk)]— 02:47, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brecqhou and Herm 

message: Since the French is only there because of Guernsey & Jersey both of which natively speak Norman & specifically their own divergent dialects Guernsiai & Jersiai so maybe put translations of those instead  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anothracountiges (talk • contribs) 05:44, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  There should be a translation in Norman instead of French. 

message: Are these territories still part of the EU customs-union? These territories where not part of the EU. In particular the Channel Islands wich are close to France. Do the local waters form part of British sea, for the fishing rigths?Smiley.toerist (talk) 12:28, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  EU trade deal 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: Moved   (t · c) buidhe 17:53, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Crown dependencies →  – I requested this move as a way to generate some discussion as I'm not convinced about the current lower case "d". Looking back at the previous move discussion from 2008, it seems to be mostly about singular vs plural, with the proposed move being from Crown Dependencies to Crown dependency, and despite the outcome at the time being No  move, the article was moved from Crown Dependencies to British Crown Dependencies in 2012, followed by another move to Crown dependencies (lower case) without any discussion it seems. It's possible that the editor who disagreed with the move to British Crown Dependencies in 2012 accidentally moved it to Crown dependencies (lower case) instead of Crown Dependencies (upper case) as it was before, and this has simply gone unnoticed/unchallenged ever since.  
In any case, I believe that Crown Dependencies would be the best name for this article. This is the form used by several official sources (see here and here) and would also bring it into line with the British Overseas Territories, which are also capitalised. Elshad (talk) 14:30, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 22 April 2021 

message: Final bullet point has an unfinished sentence, presumably needs something like 'full British citizens'. Mdrb55 (talk) 23:36, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I've reworded slightly. -- Dr Greg  talk  23:48, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Constitutional Status 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion