Talk:Falun Gong/Archive 40

message: "Although Wikipedia is accessible in China, certain pages are filtered. Nobel peace prize recipient Liu Xiaobo and dissident artist Ai Weiwei's pages were blocked by Chinese authorities. Events like the Tiananmen Square riots or religious cults like Falun Gong cannot be openly discussed online in China."
https://www.vice.com/read/wikipedia-founders-uncompromising-stance-on-censorship-and-users-privacy Here Jimmy was criticizing the Chinese communist government. The word cult has quite different meanings and has no negative implications in Jimmy's line. if someone wants to refer Jimmy"s words, it has to reflect the line, and should not be only one word. Marvin 2009 (talk) 00:44, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: How do you know the word "Religious cults" has no negative meaning? I described the fact, I did not say anything about whether "Religious cults" has any negative or positive meaning.--Raintwoto 12:06, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

text: Jimmy was criticizing the Chinese communist government, which was the context when he mentioned FG. But User:Raintwoto added the word "however" in his editing. It added a negative implication to the page. Marvin 2009 (talk) 14:43, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

text: OK, I will delete the word "however". I will let the reader decide what does it mean. --Raintwoto 17:23, 18 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: On what basis have you decided that an incidental mention from a non-expert on this topic should be included in the lead section of the article?TheBlueCanoe 05:07, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Because he is the co-founder of Wikipedia?--Raintwoto 21:07, 20 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: That is irrelevant for our purposes.TheBlueCanoe 01:34, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

text: I would like to make it very clear that my thoughts, words, and opinions on this matter are of no relevance for this article.  I am not an expert on Falun Gong nor cults, nor are my opinions of such things (expert or not) generally encyclopedic, i.e. I am not an anti-cult activist or anything of the sort which would give my words particular interest to Wikipedia editors in this context.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 07:24, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Well said. Thanks for clarifying.TheBlueCanoe 15:39, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, it's not well said.  Wikipedia has no policy to allow for the speakers of outside quotations to come here and tell Wikipedians whether their comment is suitable or not as a reliable source for what they were quoted as saying!  If we had that policy, then Green Party candidate, Alan Saldanha, who resigned after making a rape comment on Facebook, could just tell us that his Facebook comments are not relevant in Controversies in the Canadian federal election, 2011.  Or Matt Selman could contact us and say that his comments about East St. Louis are not relevant in They Saved Lisa's Brain.  Stop paying so much deference to Jimmy Wales, that his word is Gospel, just because he helped Larry Sanger set up Wikipedia! - 208.54.90.142 (talk) 13:49, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: The proposal to include Wales' description was premised on the (mistaken) notion that his comments have encyclopedic merit for no other reason than that he co-founded Wikipedia. You're arguing that co-founding Wikipedia does not make a person's opinions relevant. I think we've arrived at the same place. TheBlueCanoe 14:45, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Here, do we agree that the conclusion is add Wale's word in "International reception" instead of in the first paragraph?Raintwoto 21:44, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jimmy Wales' words 

message: From the readings and what I have been able to find online(news and articles) Fulon Gong doesn't seem to have any core tenets needed from a religion, it is mostly a combination of exercises, philosophies on life/living and motions and is in that aspect more akin to Yoga and Martial arts than a religion, it is at best a sect of Taoism or Buddhism, not a separate religion on its own.
Practitioners of Fulon Gong are not required to revoke their previous faiths, and it doesn't have any religious laws or restrictions, nor is it controlled by any central authority in any form at any level, other than planning practice meetings and rallies.
I would club it in the same Pseudo-Religion/"self help group organised as religion" family as Scientology. Exercise regiments and pop-psychological self diagnosis doesn't make you a religion.
It has more in common with a Martial Art like Tai Chi or Yoga(not considered a Martial Art).  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.75.41.49 (talk) 13:20, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it is a mixture of Buddhism and qigong. It uses Buddhism's theory and qigong's practice. With a few of Li Hongzhi's new concepts put in, we have a religion hot pot. Tuanminh01 (talk) 04:38, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Does Falun Gong classify as a New Religion? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: can you elaborate which parts of this article read like an advert and why? – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 11:03, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Resolved. Maintenance template removed. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 14:01, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Advert 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: There is a more-or-less permanent exhibition at the Sibelius Monument (Helsinki): . Not sure of this is notable. It really does seem quite incongruous when one visits. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:42, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Sibelius Monument (Helsinki)]] 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: There is a more-or-less permanent exhibition at the Sibelius Monument (Helsinki): . Not sure of this is notable. It really does seem quite incongruous when one visits. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:42, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Sibelius Monument (Helsinki)]] 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Unicornblood2018 recently inserted content that dramatically shifted the POV of the article by emphasizing some WP:FRINGE beliefs that Falun Gong supposedly holds, such as Li's divine status and the existence of aliens. I removed the edits because they were mostly identical to this source and re-merged some details from the source to the appropriate section in the lede.
My question is: should there be mention of WP:FRINGE beliefs that Falun Gong supposedly holds? Given that this article has weathered a lot of controversy, the current version of the article is a product of compromise and consensus and dramatically shifting its POV would demand a very legitimate reason. Inserting information about Falun Gong's WP:FRINGE beliefs would create a more negative tone, a tone that isn't present in the current article. How we would insert such information without violating WP:NPOV when the topic is so controversial and most information comes either from the Chinese government or from Falun Gong-linked sources is another major question.
Some reliable sources discuss Falun Gong's WP:FRINGE beliefs, including a TIME article that describes its belief that aliens are introducing modern technology in order to start cloning humans, and that a cloned human wouldn't have a soul, with the end game being a total replacement of humanity with human bodies possessed by aliens. To what extent these beliefs are notable is up for debate. Leugen9001 (talk) 16:16, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: It is antithetical to our mission to redact material to reflect a desired 'tone'. Accuracy to references and topicality are primary concerns. Simply, if Falun Gong beliefs speak positively or negatively, that is for readers to determine for themselves. Mavigogun (talk) 15:21, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should there be mention of Falun Gong's (supposed) WP:Fringe beliefs?