Talk:Avicenna/Archive 1

message: To be consistent with Western usage the name Avicenna should be used throughout. In addition the dating system of CE (Common Era) not AD (Anno Domini) or AH is to be preferred. Remember, this is the English language page of Wikipedia.
...However, this is wrong: "His Latinized name is a anglicization of Ibn Sina". I can't point on a source right away, but Avicenna is the *Latin* transcription of the name, used from the late Middle Ages on, when the philosopher first became known in the West. Please don't "anglicize" too much, even in the English Wikipedia :-)
--213.226.50.50 22:10, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uniformity of Reference 

message: In what country/countries are Kharmaithen and Hamadan? -- Zoe
Answer: Iran
:That's actually not an easy question to answer. The 1911 EB says he was "born at Afshena in the district of Bokhara" and that his father was a tax collector in Harmaitin. Modern Bokhara is in Uzbekistan but back then it was all just Central Asia. Hamadan seems to be definitely in Persia/Iran tho. Zadcat
::Thanks.  I'll add Central Asia and Persia.  -- Zoe
:::Another reason for m:spacetime_DTD
Yo all're crazy man, ibn Sina was Turkmen, and that is not mentioned anywhere in your article
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE,.. DO NOT MAKE RIDICUL OF YOURSELVES AND SAY THAT IBN SINA WAS A TURKMEN. 
HE CAN NOT BE A NOMAD. -)     and I cant think of any of his writings in Turmen,. or in general Turkish lang.
He ruled! Therefore the word MEDICINE ended from persian MADADE SINO (Sino's cure)
-- Apparently you don't know much about anything as Turkmens weren't even in existence when Avicenna was born. 
::: Using Latin form names everywhere is foolish.  It makes more sense to call him what Muslims do, which is Ibn Sina. 
-- No it isn't, that's what they're called in English, if you look at any important English document their names are Averroes, Avicenna, Rhazes etc...! Why the confusion?
I've read Avicenna's Psychology.  The term psychology there does no mean the modern practice of psychology as mental health, but more the study of the anatomy of the soul.  The two are ultimately related but still distinct.  The link to psychology is therefore deceptive.
First of all,. AS far as I know the word MEDICINE has been originated from persian Madadi Sino. The idea cant offer a proof. That is what I read somewhere, but cant recall.
Second of all. As it has been already mentioned Arabic language was the scientific language or prestigeous language of the time. Therefore it is true, and we have been taught that Ibn Sina accomplished part of his works in Arabic, as well as in Persian. However Samanids states is considered the first oficial Tajik state. As the editor already mentioned his father worked in Samanids administration, that gave Ibn Sina opportunity to study in Bukhara (where nowadays 90% of the population speak Tajik language). Being a Tajik, I do not deny that we belong to Persian group. Unfortunately, here what is happening here. Refering to a simple example, which will make it easier for you to understand the point, I want to finish my paragraph. Looking at an elevator some people say it is a lift (from British), but other people insist in saying that it is an elevator. AND WHY IS THIS ALL NECESSARY? THE MAIN THING IS THAT HE WAS FROM ONE NATION, THAT WE ALL ARE IN,.. ISLAM!!
::More detail on what "anatomy of the soul" means?  Is this clinical psychology merged with moral philosophy or something?  List of topics?
the Psychology of Avicenna is a study on the Soul. It means, A philosophical way to studie the human soul.
Zoe, They were both ancient provinces in Iran.  Hamadan is still part of Iran, but Khwarezm and Bukhara were given to Russia when it invaded Persia, or Iran.Zmmz 01:33, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other Comments 

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thread_title:  [[User:LinkBot/suggestions/Avicenna|Link suggestions]] 

message: I did a search on Avicenna and he was described as either Iranian or Persian by these sources:
Encylopaedia Britanica , Encylopeda dot com , American Heritage dictionary ,The Columbia encylopedia,MSN Encarta ,
UNESCO , PDF format,Reference dot com
.So his origin is very clear.I added the term of Persian-Tajik origin to the text.Both Persians and Tajiks attribue Avicenna to themselves and in fact they are closely related to each other.Pasha 18:14, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Irania/Persian?

message: I removed the whole section as it is a total mess. I hope someone can help creating it from scratch. Cheers -- Szvest 06:46, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Physiotheraphy section 

message: In his own biography, Ibn Sina never mentioned a Persian descent, or anything of the like. Obviously, he didn't see himself as such, why are people trying to force their POV on this article? Afshna and Bokhara were part of the Islamic Caliphate at the time, not Persia. What we do know, is that Ibn Sina wrote the bulk of his work in Arabic(he didn't write similar texts in Persian, as this article is trying to imply). Even if his ethnic background was not Arab, he was extremly influenced by the Arabian culture, he wrote in it, spoke it, and thought in it. I'm sure battling on his ethnicity( Arab/Turkic/Persian) will get us nowhere. I'm taking off the Persian descent references, and correcting the mistakes done to the locales' sovereignty.   
Also, does anyone know german? What does this reference translate to: F. Wüstenfeld's Geschichte der arabischen Aerzte und Naturforscher (Gottingen, 1840)?
I don't know German, but it doesn't take a genius to see that "arabischen" translates to "Arab", but what is the context? MB 16:14, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Persian? 

message: Gol, I can't prove that a certain twisted fact doesn't exist: Somebody claims that a man named Arash Al-Farsi died in Tehran at 6 PM on Saturday. I can't give him sources that Arash Al-Farsi didn't die in Tehran( because simply it didn't happen), so does that mean that Arash did die? Obviously, you need to check your logic. Now, most people at that time identified themselves to religion, especially in the Middle-East. Just because Arabic was the language of science doesn't mean that it couldn't have been his first.Also, I know that Arabic was the language he was comfortable with, because he spoke with it, and wrote most of his books in it. Trying to twist my words won't make your arguments stronger.
Anyway, there are three opinions here: That he either was Tajik, Persian, or Arab. Instead of degrading ourselves to an edit war( something I saw you're keen on) let's all compromise and claim the subject controversial. That's much more professional than you screaming "Persian, Persian, Persian!" down our throats on the article. What do other editors think?  MB 14:08, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  To those suggesting that Avicenna was more comfortable with Arabic than with Persian I can only say you have no business editing articles on this subject. Avicenna has even written poetry in the classical styles of Persian literature. Anybody familiar with the Persian language knows that these are extremely difficult styles, which you can only use if you have a command of the language well above that of ordinary (even educated) people. Avicenna most definitely had no problems with the Persian language. As already pointed out, Arabic was a language any educated person of that time was supposed to know. But well, you wouldn't say all wikipedians are English because they write in English, would you? Shervink 03:16, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  A compromise 

message: why don't we just call avecenna Iranian. doesn't iranian mean all iranic people(tajiks, ossetians, persians, balochis, ect).so if avecenna's definitely from Iranic origins why shouldn't we use that term?
you make sense, but the thing is for anyone doing research, iranian means nothing. most westerners only know of irans history as persian. iranian will just confuse the reader. also, there is some dispute between iranic peoples over the term iranian. iranian now has come to mean more of a nationality than ethnicity, because the iranic peoples now are not under one roof like they were during the achaemenids, parthians, and sassanids. some iranics dont like being called iranian, others dont mind being called iranian. however Persian works best in this context.Iranian Patriot 16:17, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  iranian 

message: Please clean up the 'flowery language' and add more factual information with citations. Central Asia and present day Afghanistan was never called persia.
Thank you.
:neither was iran until the west labled it Persia on their maps.  when these countries were part of Persia (iran as iranians know it) they were also called persia.  the fact is that persia is the name used by the west to represent Iran. Iran has always been called iran, all iranians know this, afghans know it, tajiks know it, etc... (arya, Eron, iranzameen, and other variations for 2500 years).  but the fact of the matter is that the west only knows about irans history as persia.  many westerners still believe that iran was an invented name imposed on the nation by the shah in the 1930's.  they dont know the truth, and to keep our history alive in the english language and in the world, we have to use the term persia.Iranian Patriot 21:17, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Badly written and needs clean up 

message: He was born from Bukhara from a Zoroastrian mother and Ismaili Father originally from Balkh.  He lists the languages he knows and neither turkish nor even Iranian Soghdian is mentioned.  Bukhara during Samanid times was Persian speaking as Rudaki is the first poet from there.  Soghdian (which is an Iranian language) was the previous language, but at the time of Samanids it was well supplanted by new Persian.  --Ali doostzadeh 05:44, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: bukhara today is still persian speaking.Iranian Patriot 15:50, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

text: OMG ... no comment. For your information: Chagatay language & Safavids! Besides that, it's Aryan (spelled with a "y") and not Arian! Tājik 01:21, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Avicenna was Persian 

message: Have started on taking some stuff from the French version, which was a Featured Article. Not an expert on the subject though, so please copyread if you are. --Vjam 22:17, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Philosophical doctrine 

message: Please comment on the discussion at Talk:History of scientific method#Peer review in medieval Islam?. --SteveMcCluskey 16:42, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Peer review citation needed 

message: I'm not sure what the naming conventions are here, but it seems the article should be titled 'Ibn Sina' - with a redirect from Avicenna - rather than the way it is now, considering that was his real name. Other philosophers (Ibn Khaldun, Al Khwarizmi) with Arab/Persian names have articles at their real names rather than latinizations of such (e.g. Algoritmi). 
Also, the article internally uses both names at different places for no apparent reason - I think it should be made consistent (i.e. mention the "Avicenna" variant at the top, and use Ibn Sina throughout the article.) 
Comments?
Valarauka 19:26, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *Nasty POV? What are you talking about? "Avicenna" is how this person has always been known in English, just like in English one says "Confucius" and not "Kǒng Fūzǐ". Wikipedia's article naming official policy (Wikipedia:Naming conventions) is very clear on this: ""Article naming should prefer what the majority of English speakers would most easily recognize, with a reasonable minimum of ambiguity, while at the same time making linking to those articles easy and second nature". "Avicenna" is the common name of this person in English, whereas "Abū Alī ibn Sīnā" is a transliteration of its Arabic name which most English speakers have never heard about (just as most English speakers wouldn't know who the hell was "Kǒng Fūzǐ"). 99% of users looking up this article will type "Avicenna", and not "Abū Alī ibn Sīnā", in the Search box. Per Wikipedia's very explicit policies on the matter (Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names), Wikipedia:Naming conventions (people), Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies)#Names), which mandate the use of "the name that is most generally recognisable [and] unambiguous with the name of other articles", and per common sense, this article has to be at "Avicenna", with "Abū Alī ibn Sīnā" as a redirect, so I'm reverting the inappropriate move. Uaxuctum 15:42, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Avicenna vs. Ibn Sina 

message: Guys, you should work to make this a B-Class article, i am sure that it will take very little to achieve it. I would also like to invite you to join Wikipedia:WikiProject Muslim scholars. --Striver 07:09, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: B-Class

message: I added the relevant information from the French article fr:Avicenne a few days ago.  As such, I removed the FAOL|French tag.  -- FaerieInGrey 23:48, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: French

message: In Asian Games 2006 (Doha), at the Openning Ceremony, it is mentioned that Avicenna was an Arab physician (This historical fraud repeated for Biruni Al-Biruni). These great men were Persian. It is needed that every Persian (Iranian, Tajik, Azaris, Kurds,...) be sensitive to this dirty movements.
Nima007 13:31, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That is true, but actually neither of these are Persian either they are both Turkic, and it is historical fraud to say they 
were Persian.
75.5.238.53 02:34, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  They were both Iranians.  Biruni was a Khwarzmian and Abu Ali Sina was from Balkh.  There is 100% evidence that they both did not know Turkish.  Biruni when he talks about the Turkish months he writes: I do not know their order or their meaning.  Abu Ali Sina also writes: in the language we know... and then brings a phrase from Persian and then Arabic.  Both of them also have Persian writings.  --alidoostzadeh 04:05, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Historical Fraud 

message: There are so many sources stating that he is Persian, and so many stating that he is Turkic.  Almost all of the proofs are correct about him, and have a point for either one of those. Since his culture, his birth location, his native language and all other proofs suggest both, I'll just change it to Turkic/Persian. No biggie.
:It should be changed in the template as well (on top of the picture).
:: No serious scholar would ever claim that he was Turkic. It is a well established fact - based on his own autobiography (written in Arabic) - that he was of Persian descent. I have never seen any scholarly article or book claiming that Avicenna was a Turk. His birth-place, his name, and even his Persian works only point toward a Persian origin. Tājik 00:51, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Actually he clearly states that In the languages I know and them mentions a phrase in Arabic and then Persian.  And as you pointed out he has several Persian works.  Plus his father was Ismaili from Balkh and his mother's name was Setareh.  --alidoostzadeh 03:01, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Turkic/Persian 

message: And not the Muslim scholar's name as incorrectly indicated in the box. The name mentioned in the article, as per the naming convention, his name in the box should be(First/Last Name): Al-Husayn Al-Balkhi (known in the East as 'Ibn Sina' & in the West as 'Avicenna')[or reverse: Last/First Name][unless his middle [=father's] name is added then it will be: Al-Husayn Abdullah{or 'A.'} Al-Balkhi (known in the East as 'Ibn Sina' & in the West as 'Avicenna')[or reverse: Last/First/Middle]. (ILAKNA 08:30, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Abu Ali (or 'Father of Ali' in English) is 'Kunya' or 'Nickame'

message: I was reading this discussion and I think people are missing some points here. When we are asking where someone is coming from, the answer is the name of the country that he is from not his ethnicity or his language. We should follow the same here. Therefore, I think the word Tajik in parenthesis which refers to his ethnicity is not appropriate here.  The other confusion is about the word Persian. Persian can refer to  Persian (Ethnicity),  Persian (language), and residents of the country of Persia(Iran). 
Therefore here we should say Avicenna was a Persian … (As it is done in many reliable sources) and Wikilink Persian to Iran or Persian Empire  as the name of the country he was from.(Arash the Archer 16:48, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Persian (Tājīk)

message: Also, note that Iran was not an independent state at the time of Avicenna (980–1037). To say he was born in "Bukhara, Iran" or "Bukhara, Persia", much less that supposedly no non-Iranian people lived there, would be simplistic. The region was under long Arab domination. Both of the following histories are from this site. 
Samanid Dynasty was the first native dynasty to arise in Iran after the Muslim Arab conquest. The four grandsons of the dynasty's founder Saman-Khoda, had been rewarded with provinces for their faithful service to the Abbasid caliph al-Ma'mun: Nuh obtained Samarkand; Ahmad, Fergana; Yahya, Shash; and Elyas, Herat. Ahnad's son Nasr became governor of Transoxonia in 875, but it was his brother and successor, Isma'il I (892-907) who overthrew the Saffarids in Khorasan (900) and the Zaydites of Tabaristan, thus establishing a semiautonomous rule over Transoxonia and Khorasan with Bukhara as his capital. But from the mid-10th century, Samanid power was gradually undermined, economically by the interruption of the northern trade and politically by a struggle with a confederation of nobles. Weakened, the Samanids became vulnerable to pressure from rising Turkish powers in Central Asia and Afghanistan. Nuh II (976-997), to retain his nominal control, confirmed Sebuktigin, a former Turkish slave, as semi-independent ruler of Ghazna (Ghazni,Afg.) and appointed his son Mahmud governor of Khorasan. But turkish Qarakhanids, who then occupied the greater part of Transoxonia, allied with Mahmud and deposed the Samanid Mansur II, taking possession of Khorasan. Bukhara fell in 999 and the last Samanid Isma'il II, after a five-year struggle against Ghaznavid Mahmud and the Qarakhanids, was assassinated in 1005.
State of Samanids AD 819-999
Descended from a Sassanid general who established himself a ruler of Transoxania, the Samanid Dynasty in 960 AD found itself torn between two military families, one of which was headed by the Turkic general Alptigin, who had used his influence to conquer eastern territories and establish himself as a provincial governor at Ghazna (modern Ghazni in Afghanistan). When the Samanid Emir Abu ol-Hasan died in 961 AD and Alptigin's candidate was rejected by the court ministers, he retired from Khurasan (northeastern Iran) to Ghazna, where he ruled as a largely independent sovereign, thus starting the Ghaznavid list in 962 AD. Ghaznavids (962-1186 AD)
Weiszman 16:08, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes we all know he was born under Samanid dynasty who have called their state Iran many times as mentioned by Rudaki.  Ghaznavids too.  Geocities and fanticus sites are not really scholarly anyways.  For example Samanids were established still in Bukhara their capital from (AD 819–999) (Britannica) and Ghaznavids came about from AD 977–1186. (Britannica).  But no one has issue with saying Samanid Bukhara.  The issue you raid about Avicenna being Arab is rejected by all modern relevant sources as well as all users.  All modern source are clear he was Persian and there is no ambiguity in primary sources.  He also explicitly says the only language he knows is Persian and Arabic and he also says that the reason Turks/Africans do not cultivate intellectualism is because of their harsh climate and thus they are there to serve the people of virtue.   His mothers name and his last name are both Persian as well.  Also it seems the RFC responses were clear that avicenna was not an Arab.  So that should end that issue.   --alidoostzadeh 16:18, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Even if he lived during a time that Iran was considered occupied it still doesn’t matter. Since ancient times, Iran has always been a completely recognized territory. Many other countries came and go through the history but Iran was always a country with more or less the same borders. In some part of the history Iran was occupied but it doesn’t mean the Iranian nationality didn’t exist in that period. (Arash the Archer 16:33, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: History background

message: It is amazing that user weiszman still claims Britannica only calls him a Muslim!
I already brought the Britannica link from everyone directly from Britannica's site..
Here is part of Britannica academic edition:
Arabic  Ibn Sina,  in full  Abu 'Ali al-Husayn ibn 'Abd Allah ibn Sina   Iranian physician, the most famous and influential of the philosopher-scientists of Islam. He was particularly noted for his contributions in the fields of Aristotelian philosophy and medicine. He composed the Kitab al-shifa' (“Book of Healing”), a vast philosophical and scientific encyclopaedia, and The Canon of Medicine, which is among the most famous books in the history of medicine.
Avicenna, an ethnic Persian who spent his whole life in the eastern and central regions of Iran, received his earliest education in Bukhara under the direction of his father. Since the house of his father was a meeting place for learned men, from his earliest childhood Avicenna was able to profit from the company of the outstanding masters of his day. A precocious child with an exceptional memory that he retained throughout his life, he had memorized the Qur'an and much Arabic poetry by the age of 10. Thereafter, he studied logic and metaphysics under teachers whom he soon outgrew and then spent the few years until he reached the age of 18 in his own self-education. He read avidly and mastered Islamic law, then medicine, and finally metaphysics. Particularly helpful in his intellectual development was his gaining access to the rich royal library of the Samanids—the first great native dynasty that arose in Iran after the Arab conquest—as the result of his successful cure of the Samanid prince Nuh ibn Mansur. By the time he was 21 he was accomplished in all branches of formal learning and had already gained a wide reputation as an outstanding physician. His services were also sought as an administrator, and for a while he even entered government service as a clerk. 
But suddenly the whole pattern of his life changed. His father died; the Samanid house was defeated by Mahmud of Ghazna, the Turkish leader and legendary hero who established Ghaznavid rule in Khorasan (northeastern Iran and modern western Afghanistan); and Avicenna began a period of wandering and turmoil, which was to last to the end of his life with the exception of a few unusual intervals of tranquillity. Destiny had plunged Avicenna into one of the tumultuous periods of Iranian history, when new Turkish elements were replacing Iranian domination in Central Asia and local Iranian dynasties were trying to gain political independence from the 'Abbasid caliphate in Baghdad (in modern Iraq). But the power of concentration and the intellectual prowess of Avicenna was such that he was able to continue his intellectual work with remarkable consistency and continuity and was not at all influenced by the outward disturbances. 
Avicenna wandered for a while in different cities of Khorasan and then left for the court of the Buyid princes, who were ruling over central Iran, first going to Rayy (near modern Tehran) and then to Qazvin, where as usual he made his livelihood as a physician. But in these cities also he found neither sufficient social and economic support nor the necessary peace and calm to continue his work. He went, therefore, to Hamadan in west-central Iran, where Shams al-Dawlah, another Buyid prince, was ruling. This journey marked the beginning of a new phase in Avicenna's life. He became court physician and enjoyed the favour of the ruler to the extent that twice he was appointed vizier. As was the order of the day, he also suffered political reactions and intrigues against him and was forced into hiding for some time; at one time he was even imprisoned.
Writings
This was the period when he began his two most famous works. Kitab al-shifa' is probably the largest work of its kind ever written by one man. It treats of logic, the natural sciences, including psychology, the quadrivium (geometry, astronomy, arithmetic, and music), and metaphysics, but there is no real exposition of ethics or of politics. His thought in this work owes a great deal to Aristotle but also to other Greek influences and to Neoplatonism. His system rests on the conception of God as the necessary existent: in God alone essence, what he is, and existence, that he is, coincide. There is a gradual multiplication of beings through a timeless emanation from God as a result of his self-knowledge. The Canon of Medicine (Al-Qanun fi al-tibb) is the most famous single book in the history of medicine in both East and West. It is a systematic encyclopaedia based for the most part on the achievements of Greek physicians of the Roman imperial age and on other Arabic works and, to a lesser extent, on his own experience (his own clinical notes were lost during his journeys). Occupied during the day with his duties at court as both physician and administrator, Avicenna spent almost every night with his students composing these and other works and carrying out general philosophical and scientific discussions related to them. These sessions were often combined with musical performances and gaiety and lasted until late hours of the night. Even in hiding and in prison he continued to write. The great physical strength of Avicenna enabled him to carry out a program that would have been unimaginable for a person of a feebler constitution. 
The last phase of Avicenna's life began with his move to Esfahan (about 250 miles south of Tehran). In 1022 Shams al-Dawlah died, and Avicenna, after a period of difficulty that included imprisonment, fled to Esfahan with a small entourage. In Esfahan, Avicenna was to spend the last 14 years of his life in relative peace. He was esteemed highly by 'Ala' al-Dawlah, the ruler, and his court. Here he finished the two major works he began in Hamadan and wrote most of his nearly 200 treatises; he also composed the first work on Aristotelian philosophy in the Persian language and the masterly summary of his Kitab al-shifa', called Kitab al-najat (Book of Salvation), written partly during the military campaigns in which he had to accompany 'Ala' al-Dawlah to the field of battle. During this time he composed his last major philosophical opus and the most “personal” testament of his thought, Kitab al-isharat wa al-tanbihat (Book of Directives and Remarks). In this work he described the mystic's spiritual journey from the beginnings of faith to the final stage of direct and uninterrupted vision of God. Also in Esfahan, when an authority on Arabic philology criticized him for his lack of mastery in the subject, he spent three years studying it and composed a vast work called Lisan al-'Arab (The Arabic Language), which remained in rough draft until his death. Accompanying 'Ala' al-Dawlah on a campaign, Avicenna fell ill and, despite his attempts to treat himself, died from colic and from exhaustion. 
...
"Avicenna." Encyclopædia Britannica. 2007. Encyclopædia Britannica Online. 9 Apr. 2007  
Note the difference with Britannica 1911. .  Also note Britannica 1911 uses the word Arabian not in an ethnic sense.  AVICENNA [Abu 'Ali al-Husain ibn 'Abdallah ibn Sinai (980-1037), Arabian philosopher, was born at Afshena in the district of Bokhara. His mother was a native of the place; his father, a Persian from Balkh, filled the post of tax-collector in the neighbouring town of Harmaitin, under Nall II. ibn Mansur, the Samanid amir of Bokhara. .   
At that time Arabian and Muslim were used interchangeably.  Now it is note the case and most european literature have been updated.   So this link clearly shows Arabian and Muslim were used interchangeably.  He is called Arabian philosopher but ethnically he is Persian.  Now we use the term Muslim philosopher as in 2007 Britannica.   The user weiszman insisted many times that Farabi was a Turk but there is a lot of google book searches that states him as an Arab.  Also In Search of Adam: The Story of Man's Quest for the Truth about His Earliest Ancestors  is not really a source dealing with Avicenna and Islamic philosophy and his biography and something from 1956 is out-dated and non-specialized and non-verifiable acadamecially.  But I believe the explanation by Britannica 1911 and 2007 is sufficient to close this matter.  And users should again read this: If we speak of Arabs in this Chapter we include all those that belong to the civilization of Islam which means syrians, Persians, copts, Berbers and others too.  Not that there existed any debates anyway since all users with the exception of one user agreed Avicenna was Persian.  And the use of the term Arabian/Arab equivalent to Muslim is clearly noted in Britannica 1911 which has been rectified and corrected by Britannica 2007 academic edition.  Mardavich has also noted:  WP:NPOV clearly states "views that are held by a tiny minority should not be represented except in articles devoted to those views".  But I would go one step further that this is just mis-intrepreting the word Arab/Arabian and is not even a fringe view in the academic community (shoclars dealing with Islamic philosophy and history)--alidoostzadeh 16:52, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: it's amazing that user alidoostzadeh ignores what 3 other articles from Britannica say:
* (980–1037). During the Middle Ages, few scholars contributed more to science and philosophy than the Muslim scholar Avicenna. By his writings he helped convey the thought of the Greek philosopher Aristotle to the thinkers of western Europe, and his ‘Canon of Medicine' became the definitive work in its field for centuries. 
Born in Bukhara, Persia (now in Iran), in 980, he spent his childhood
http://www.britannica.com/ebi/article-9273035
* Arabic Ibn Sina in full Abu 'Ali al-Husayn ibn 'Abd Allah ibn Sina  
born 980, Bukhara, Iran
died 1037, Hamadan
Islamic philosopher and scientist.
He became physician to several sultans and also twice served as vizier. His Canon of Medicine was long a standard work in the field. He is known for his great encyclopaedia of philosophy, The Book of Healing. His other writings include The Book of Salvation and The Book of Directives and Remarks. His interpretations of Aristotle influenced European Scholasticism. His system rests on a conception of God as the necessary existent: only in God do essence (what God is) and existence (that God is) coincide.
http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9356223
* The eastern Muslim countries could boast of the first systematic writers in the field of philosophy, including al-Kindi (died c. 870), al-Farabi (died 950), and especially Avicenna (Ibn Sina, died 1037). Avicenna's work in philosophy, science, and medicine was outstanding and was appreciated as such in Europe. 
http://open.britannica.com/women/article-13717  Weiszman 17:16, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:   britannica articles on avicenna 

message: * "From AD 980 to AD 1037 a learned man of Arab descent lived in the Persian city of Hamadan." Herbert Wendt. In Search of Adam: The Story of Man's Quest for the Truth about His Earliest Ancestors. Houghton, Mifflin, 1956, p. 6 
* Acta Geneticae Medicae Et Gemellologiae, International Society for Twin Studies, Società italiana di genetica medica, Permanent Committee for the International Congresses of Human Genetics, Istituto "Gregorio Mendel", 1952, p. 268
* "Ibn-Sina has been referred to as the Arab Galen." Philip Khuri Hitti. Makers of Arab History, 1968, p. 216 
* "In him Arab science reached its climax."Eugene A. Myers. Arabic Thought and the Western World in the Golden Age of Islam. 1964, p. 33 
* "AVICENNA Avicenna (979-1037) is admittedly by far the greatest of Moslem philosophers and a physician in whom Arab medicine reached its highest culmination. ..." Allahbukhsh Karimbukhsh Brohi, An Adventure in Self-expression, 1975, p. 385 
* "Al-Qanun, a book written by Ibn Sina (Avecina), an " excellent physician and one of the greatest Arab scholars, was translated into Latin""
Wajih Ibrahim Saadeh. Arab Enlightenment and European Renaissance, 1985, p. 40. 
* "as expounded by the Arab scholar Ibn Sina and in his ..." Gerald Sykes, Aurobindo Ghose, Zvi Cahn. Sri Aurobindo on Social Sciences and Humanities for the New Age: An Anthology, 1962, p. 402.  Weiszman 17:20, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know what do you and your references mean by the term Arab. By looking at the Arab in Wikipedia it is obvious that even nowadays Arab doesn't have a single meaning so I can't imagine what it means to call Avicenna that lived 1000 years ago Arab. Anyway it doesn’t matter since Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(biographies)#Opening_paragraph says that only Nationality should be mentioned in the first paragraph. Nationality means the country of which the person is a citizen or national, or was a citizen when the person became notable. Ethnicity should generally not be emphasized in the opening unless it is relevant to the subject's notability. (Arash the Archer 19:48, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Old and new quotes on Ibn Sina being of Arab descent and an Arabic scientist

message: It is amazing that the user Weiszman thinks that just because some Britanica articles have said Muslim scientists then he can ignore the other Britannica articles that have said ethnic Persian.  I am not sure if he knows the difference between Islam (a religion) and Persian (language,ethnicity, culture).  Also it is amazing he ignores the main article on Britannica where Ibn Sina is called both Muslim and Persian.  I will have to recopy and paste this information again until the user understands that one can be a Persian and a Muslim.  Muslim and Arabs have been used in the past interchangeably but that is not the case anymore.  Muslim,Persian and Arab have been garbled by western scholars in the past but this terminology and convention is not followed by modern references. (Encyclopedia Britannica 2007 as opposed to 1911).  I even brought a source where the author categorizes Persians, Berbers, Copts and other non-Arabs as Arabs.  The Jewish link with avicenna's mother is not mentioned in any authoritative source either.  
He should read this first Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view#Undue_weight.  But furthermore his argument has no weight as the orientalist term Arab, Arabian and etc. as described before and will be described more clearly here did not denote ethnicity with regards to Avicenna but they had to do with one of the languages he used and the fact that he was Muslim.
I will quote:(wikipedia policy)
* If a viewpoint is in the majority, then it should be easy to substantiate it with reference to commonly accepted reference texts;
* If a viewpoint is held by a significant minority, then it should be easy to name prominent adherents;
* If a viewpoint is held by an extremely small (or vastly limited) minority, it does not belong in Wikipedia (except perhaps in some ancillary article) regardless of whether it 
is true or not; and regardless of whether you can prove it or not.
(end wikipedia policy)
And also:
(wikipedia policy)
Note that the reliability of a source depends on context; what is reliable in one topic may not be in another. A world-renowned mathematician may not be a reliable source on topics of biology.
(wikipedia policy)
So far it has been show that no one holds such a view in light of the term Arab being used as a non-ethnic term.  It has been used as a cultural term and religious term by old sources.  Also a book needs to be relavent to the context and topic.  That is what my sources are.  I have shown it has been used as a term to encompass Persians, Copts, Berbers and non-Arabic people in the West.  Thus the one source which is not even within context and is from more than 50 years ago mentionsArabic descent from Persia (land)   where-as Persia was known as geographic area, Persian has been grouped as Arab by old sources (see 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica again).  The jewish mother viewpoint which is a speculation by two jewish sources (and even they don't agree with) also is just a speculation as they mention (and one of them mentions Persian father but we do not rely on non-academic sources) and so it is not a viewpoint at all and is not relevant to the context.  Scholarly facts are above speculations. And finally prominent adherents should be from scholars of Islamic philosophy working in the field (or a primary classic source) and not general authors and non-experts.  
Also It is amazing that user weiszman still claims Britannica only calls him a Muslim!  I already brought the Britannica link from everyone directly from Britannica's site..
Here is part of Britannica academic edition:
Arabic  Ibn Sina,  in full  Abu 'Ali al-Husayn ibn 'Abd Allah ibn Sina   Iranian physician, the most famous and influential of the philosopher-scientists of Islam. He was particularly noted for his contributions in the fields of Aristotelian philosophy and medicine. He composed the Kitab al-shifa' (“Book of Healing”), a vast philosophical and scientific encyclopaedia, and The Canon of Medicine, which is among the most famous books in the history of medicine.
Avicenna, an ethnic Persian who spent his whole life in the eastern and central regions of Iran, received his earliest education in Bukhara under the direction of his father. Since the house of his father was a meeting place for learned men, from his earliest childhood Avicenna was able to profit from the company of the outstanding masters of his day. A precocious child with an exceptional memory that he retained throughout his life, he had memorized the Qur'an and much Arabic poetry by the age of 10. Thereafter, he studied logic and metaphysics under teachers whom he soon outgrew and then spent the few years until he reached the age of 18 in his own self-education. He read avidly and mastered Islamic law, then medicine, and finally metaphysics. Particularly helpful in his intellectual development was his gaining access to the rich royal library of the Samanids—the first great native dynasty that arose in Iran after the Arab conquest—as the result of his successful cure of the Samanid prince Nuh ibn Mansur. By the time he was 21 he was accomplished in all branches of formal learning and had already gained a wide reputation as an outstanding physician. His services were also sought as an administrator, and for a while he even entered government service as a clerk. 
But suddenly the whole pattern of his life changed. His father died; the Samanid house was defeated by Mahmud of Ghazna, the Turkish leader and legendary hero who established Ghaznavid rule in Khorasan (northeastern Iran and modern western Afghanistan); and Avicenna began a period of wandering and turmoil, which was to last to the end of his life with the exception of a few unusual intervals of tranquillity. Destiny had plunged Avicenna into one of the tumultuous periods of Iranian history, when new Turkish elements were replacing Iranian domination in Central Asia and local Iranian dynasties were trying to gain political independence from the 'Abbasid caliphate in Baghdad (in modern Iraq). But the power of concentration and the intellectual prowess of Avicenna was such that he was able to continue his intellectual work with remarkable consistency and continuity and was not at all influenced by the outward disturbances. 
Avicenna wandered for a while in different cities of Khorasan and then left for the court of the Buyid princes, who were ruling over central Iran, first going to Rayy (near modern Tehran) and then to Qazvin, where as usual he made his livelihood as a physician. But in these cities also he found neither sufficient social and economic support nor the necessary peace and calm to continue his work. He went, therefore, to Hamadan in west-central Iran, where Shams al-Dawlah, another Buyid prince, was ruling. This journey marked the beginning of a new phase in Avicenna's life. He became court physician and enjoyed the favour of the ruler to the extent that twice he was appointed vizier. As was the order of the day, he also suffered political reactions and intrigues against him and was forced into hiding for some time; at one time he was even imprisoned.
Writings
This was the period when he began his two most famous works. Kitab al-shifa' is probably the largest work of its kind ever written by one man. It treats of logic, the natural sciences, including psychology, the quadrivium (geometry, astronomy, arithmetic, and music), and metaphysics, but there is no real exposition of ethics or of politics. His thought in this work owes a great deal to Aristotle but also to other Greek influences and to Neoplatonism. His system rests on the conception of God as the necessary existent: in God alone essence, what he is, and existence, that he is, coincide. There is a gradual multiplication of beings through a timeless emanation from God as a result of his self-knowledge. The Canon of Medicine (Al-Qanun fi al-tibb) is the most famous single book in the history of medicine in both East and West. It is a systematic encyclopaedia based for the most part on the achievements of Greek physicians of the Roman imperial age and on other Arabic works and, to a lesser extent, on his own experience (his own clinical notes were lost during his journeys). Occupied during the day with his duties at court as both physician and administrator, Avicenna spent almost every night with his students composing these and other works and carrying out general philosophical and scientific discussions related to them. These sessions were often combined with musical performances and gaiety and lasted until late hours of the night. Even in hiding and in prison he continued to write. The great physical strength of Avicenna enabled him to carry out a program that would have been unimaginable for a person of a feebler constitution. 
The last phase of Avicenna's life began with his move to Esfahan (about 250 miles south of Tehran). In 1022 Shams al-Dawlah died, and Avicenna, after a period of difficulty that included imprisonment, fled to Esfahan with a small entourage. In Esfahan, Avicenna was to spend the last 14 years of his life in relative peace. He was esteemed highly by 'Ala' al-Dawlah, the ruler, and his court. Here he finished the two major works he began in Hamadan and wrote most of his nearly 200 treatises; he also composed the first work on Aristotelian philosophy in the Persian language and the masterly summary of his Kitab al-shifa', called Kitab al-najat (Book of Salvation), written partly during the military campaigns in which he had to accompany 'Ala' al-Dawlah to the field of battle. During this time he composed his last major philosophical opus and the most “personal” testament of his thought, Kitab al-isharat wa al-tanbihat (Book of Directives and Remarks). In this work he described the mystic's spiritual journey from the beginnings of faith to the final stage of direct and uninterrupted vision of God. Also in Esfahan, when an authority on Arabic philology criticized him for his lack of mastery in the subject, he spent three years studying it and composed a vast work called Lisan al-'Arab (The Arabic Language), which remained in rough draft until his death. Accompanying 'Ala' al-Dawlah on a campaign, Avicenna fell ill and, despite his attempts to treat himself, died from colic and from exhaustion. 
...
"Avicenna." Encyclopædia Britannica. 2007. Encyclopædia Britannica Online. 9 Apr. 2007  
Note the difference with Britannica 1911. .  Also note Britannica 1911 uses the word Arabian not in an ethnic sense.  AVICENNA [Abu 'Ali al-Husain ibn 'Abdallah ibn Sinai (980-1037), Arabian philosopher, was born at Afshena in the district of Bokhara. His mother was a native of the place; his father, a Persian from Balkh, filled the post of tax-collector in the neighbouring town of Harmaitin, under Nall II. ibn Mansur, the Samanid amir of Bokhara. .   
At that time Arabian and Muslim were used interchangeably.  Now it is note the case and most european literature have been updated.   So this link clearly shows Arabian and Muslim were used interchangeably.  He is called Arabian philosopher but ethnically he is Persian.  Now we use the term Muslim philosopher as in 2007 Britannica.   The user weiszman insisted many times that Farabi was a Turk but there is a lot of google book searches that states him as an Arab.  Also In Search of Adam: The Story of Man's Quest for the Truth about His Earliest Ancestors  is not really a source dealing with Avicenna and Islamic philosophy and his biography and something from 1956 is out-dated and non-specialized and non-verifiable acadamecially.  But I believe the explanation by Britannica 1911 and 2007 is sufficient to close this matter.  And users should again read this: If we speak of Arabs in this Chapter we include all those that belong to the civilization of Islam which means syrians, Persians, copts, Berbers and others too.  Not that there existed any debates anyway since all users with the exception of one user agreed Avicenna was Persian.  And the use of the term Arabian/Arab equivalent to Muslim is clearly noted in Britannica 1911 which has been rectified and corrected by Britannica 2007 academic edition.  Mardavich has also noted:  WP:NPOV clearly states "views that are held by a tiny minority should not be represented except in articles devoted to those views".  But I would go one step further that this is just mis-intrepreting the word Arab/Arabian and is not even a fringe view in the academic community (shoclars dealing with Islamic philosophy and history)
No one is ignoring the sources that call him Muslim!  His Islamic religion was never disputed by anyone.  Only his ethnicity is disputed by one user! 
So Britannica is clear.  He is a Persian and Muslim  Being one does not contradict the other.  Yet the user is saying since he is  Muslim he is not Persian.
Now I have examined the term Arab above and it does not denote ethnicity.
This is the sense the word Arab is being used for Avicenna.  
Now  before I give dozens of sources (anyone can be a google scholar) let me examine the sources of this person:
He writes:
:"From AD 980 to AD 1037 a learned man of Arab descent lived in the Persian city of Hamadan." Herbert Wendt. In Search of Adam: The Story of Man's Quest for the Truth about His Earliest Ancestors. Houghton, Mifflin, 1956, p. 6
Note the source is not by a scholar.  It is from 1956.  It is not a source related to islamic philosophy.  And it could as well use Arab in the sense of Britannica 1911.   Britannica 1911 is a key.
: "Ibn-Sina has been referred to as the Arab Galen." Philip Khuri Hitti. Makers of Arab History, 1968, p. 216
Yes by Europeans like Encyclopedia Britannica 1911.  Note the author of the above source himself is an Arab.  He also has called Ibn Sina Persian here:.
:"In him Arab science reached its climax."Eugene A. Myers. Arabic Thought and the Western World in the Golden Age of Islam. 1964, p. 33’’
This has nothing to do with ethnicity.  Arab science and Islamic science were used equivalently.  Note science does not have an ethnicity.  When europeans say Arab science they mean the science of Islamic golden age.   Thus scientists who participated in such endevour were labeled as ‘’Arab’’ scientist irregardless of their ethnicity.  See above and the rest below.
:’’Al-Qanun, a book written by Ibn Sina (Avecina), an " excellent physician and one of the greatest Arab scholars, was translated into Latin"" Wajih Ibrahim Saadeh. Arab Enlightenment and European Renaissance, 1985, p. 40’’
The source is written by an Arab scholar but has no reference to ethnicity!!  Arab scholar mean language.
The user needs to read this Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view#Undue_weight and find out why all modern Ecncylopedias do not claim an Arab ethnicity for Avicenna.  Also I have explained the ambiguous use of Arab as above. 
Anyone can go in google books and do a search.  It’s amazing the user just chooses couple of sources who have used the term Arab as equivalent to Muslim .  Or his sources are not even from scholars of the field of Islamic studies.  
Here are some great scholars with sources pertaining to the issue.  All these books pertain to the issue of Islamic philosophy.  They are relevant sources in the specialized field of Islamic philosophy.  They are specialized and geared to the topic.  They are not random books!  They are actual biographies of the great Persian scientist Avicenna.  Thus they are extremely strong sources and not some 1952 source about Adam and Eve.
0)
The Cambridge Companion to Medieval Philosophy By Arthur Stephen Macgrade  (pg 98) 
Scholars have sometimes preferred to Speak of ‘’Arabic philosophy’’ to avoid suggesting that there is an ‘’Islamic’’ way of Philosophizing…..we need to recognize that not all philosophical texts were written in Arabic, since Avicenna, amongst others, penned some important treatise in Persian.  Beside the word Arabic may be construed as referring not only to the language used by the philosophers but also to their ethnic background and with the exception of al-Kindi and Averros, few philosophers were Arabs.  Avicenna and Al-Ghazali, for example, were Persian’’
1)
…Ibn Sina’s only major work of philosophy written in his native PERSIAN
Avicenna By Lenn Evan Goodman(pg 37)
This book is a  biography of the man and not some random source from 1952.  It is a biography written about Avicenna.  Note the title: Avicenna, Lenn E. Goodman, Arabic thought and culture.  But Avicenna is a Persian, but the term Arab was used in synonom with Islam.ic thought and culture.  
2)
The Islamic Middle East: Tradition and Change By Charles Lindholm
‘’Iranian Platonic philosopher’’(pg 277)
3)
Persian Grammar: History and State of Its Study By Gernot L. Windfuhr
 The first  known discussion of Persian is by the famous philosopher Avicenna
Now I ask.  How many Arabs had a Persian name (Sina) and their mothers’s name was Setareh and  have written in Persian  and lived their whole life under Persian kings?    There is no such example.  
4)
Professor  George Saliba of Columbia university clearly considers him a Persian in an article that is pertinent to Islamic science.  George Saliba also uses the term ‘’Arab astronomy’’ 
5)
The ISAT Social Science Coach: Grade 7 By Vivienne Hodges
‘’ Ibn-Sina (980—1037) Also known as Avicenna. Persian physician and philosopher. 
Wrote work that was standard medical text until 1500.’’
6)
Goodnow's History of Nursing - Page 95 by Minnie Goodnow – 1963
‘’Avicenna, a Persian, was one of the great scholars of the Arabic world.’’
Note Avicenna never lived in an Arab speaking country.  Thus again we see how the term Arab is being loosely.  
7) Medieval Islamic Economic Thought: Filling the Great Gap in European Economics By Shaikh M. Ghazanfar
‘’Avicenna, Suhrawardi(both Persian)’’ pg 115
8)
For Court, Manor, and Church: education in medieval Europe - Page 154
by Barnes, Donna R. - 1971 - 214 pages
‘’ Next to Rhazes is the Persian-Muslim physician ibn Sina, or Avicenna’’
9)
Islam: An Historical Introduction By Gerhard Endress pg 136
‘’
10)
Virginia SOL Coach: World History and Geography: to 1500 A.D. By Vivienne Hodges pg 134
‘’ Also known as Avicenna. Persian physician and philosopher’’
11)
The Texture of the Divine: imagination in medieval Islamic and Jewish thought By Aaron W. Hughes
‘’ It was for this reason that Corbin was so interested in Persian thinkers such as 
Avicenna and Suhrawardi: they were the phenomena by which he could return’’
Pg 240
12)
‘’ The Review of Religion By Raymond Collyer Knox, Horace Leland Friess
‘’
‘’Avicenna's life and its background of Persian and Mohammedan culture’’(pg 106)
13) 
Science Encyclopedia By Jenni Rainford
(pg 224)
‘’ In the 11th century, Persian doctor Avicenna wrote the Canon ofmedicine, a medical 
textbook used across the Arab Empire for centuries’’(pg 224)
14)
‘’ The Alchemy Reader: From Hermes Trismegistus to Isaac Newton - Page 95
by Stanton J. Linden - 2003 - 286 pages’’(pg 95)
‘’ the Persian-born Avicenna (“Prince of Physicians,” “Aristotle 
of the Arabians”)’’
15)
One Thousand Roads to Mecca: Ten Centuries of Writing about the Pilgrimage to Mecca By Michael Wolfe(pg 15)
‘’ *Avicenna: Western name of Ibn Sina (980—1037), renowned Persian philosopher and 
physician.’’
16)
The Development of Metaphysics in Persia: A Contribution to the History of Muslim Philosophy - Page 38 by Muhammad Iqbal - 1908 - 195 pages
‘’ Among the early Persian Philosophers, Avicenna alone attempted to construct his 
own system of thought.’’(pg 38)
 
17)
The Concise Encyclopedia of Western Philosophy By Jonathan Rée, J O Urmson, Inc NetLibrary (pg 41)
‘’Avicenna (980-1037) Persian physician (the name is Latinized from Ibn Sina)’’
18)
Kcct Soc Studies Gr 8  (pg 200)
‘’Ibn-Sina (980—1037) Also known as Avicenna. Persian physician and philosopher. 
Wrote work that was standard medical text until 1500’’
19)
Musics of Many Cultures: an introduction By Elizabeth May (pg 270)
‘’ Of the great music theorists, two were Persian: Ibn Sina (Avicenna, 980- Iran 
1037), and Safi al-Din (d. 1294).’’
20)
‘’As elsewhere in the Muslim world, in medieval Persia Arabic was the lingua franca.  Almost all Persian writes and scholars were bilingual, and an extraordinary number of scientists and philosophers continued to write entirely or primary in Arabic.  In addition to the historian Tabari and physicial and philosopher Avicenna, three of the greatest Islamic theologians…This fluidity enabled medieval Persian scientists’’(Routledge Encyclopedia of Translation Studies By Mona Baker, pg 516)[ http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0415093805&id=ewBfSBo8rRsC&pg=RA1-PA516&lpg=RA1-PA516&dq=avicenna+persian&sig=Wb9nqOG97GmbXnFm16daCcZkdQc]
21)
Library: An Unquiet History - Page 65
by Battles, Matthews - 2003 - 245 pages
 ‘’ The library of the Persian court was one such house of riches, as the Iranian 
philosopher and physician Avicenna (980—1037) testifies’’
22)
Islamic Art and Architecture, 650-1250 By Richard Ettinghausen, Oleg Grabar(pg 134)
‘’ the great Persian scientists and poets Ibn Sina (Avicenna)’’
23)
Encyclopedias Britannica 2007 : Avicenna, an ethnic Persian who spent his whole life in the eastern and central regions of Iran (citation given above)
Encyclopedia Britannica 1911: AVICENNA [Abu 'Ali al-Husain ibn 'Abdallah ibn Sinai (980-1037), Arabian philosopher, was born at Afshena in the district of Bokhara. His mother was a native of the place; his father, a Persian from Balkh, filled the post of tax-collector in the neighbouring town of Harmaitin, under Nall II. ibn Mansur, the Samanid amir of Bokhara. .   (citation given above)
Columbia Encyclopedia: Islamic philosopher and physician, of Persian origin, b. near Bukhara
Encyclopedia of Islam: His native language was Persian.(Encyclopedia of Islam: © 1999 Koninklijke Brill NV, Leiden, The Netherlands) 
Encyclopedia Iranica:   That he should have written poems in Persian, his native and everyday language, is probable, but can not be proved. (Avicenna in Encyclopedia Iranica) 
Encyclopedia Encarta: Avicenna (Arabic, Abu Ali al-Husayn ibn Abd Allah ibn Sina) (980-1037), Iranian Islamic philosopher and physician, born near Bukhara ....
Encyclopedia of Religion: his native languate was Farsi(Persian), but the language of his education was Arabic (Avicenna in Encyclopedia of Religion,MacMillan Reference Books; 2nd edition (January 30, 2005)).
All the above Encyclopedia's (with the exception of 1911 Britannica which also clearly says Persian) are clear and also relevant to the context of the discussion.  Wikipedia requires sources to be relevant to the context of the discussion.  
Note many of the sources above describe exactly why Avicenna, an ethnic Persian has been called ‘’Arabian’’ because ‘’Arabian’’ and ‘’Islamic’’ were used equivalently in early 20th century scholarship.  
Check the Encyclopedia 1911 Britannica (posted above)..  Arabian was used for Islamic where Persian is used for ethnicity.
Note the user still denies that Encyclopedia Britannica 1911 and 2007 call him Persian and his response is that: ‘’they use Muslim’’!  Actually they use both.  It is clear for me that the user is not here to discuss Avicenna or else he would not ignore Britannica and all these primary sources relevant to Avicenna.  And many of the above sources are specialized dealing with either Avicenna (one book is about him) or Islamic philosophy.  I think if anyone reads the above, everything will be clear to them.  I see no reason to repeat the same arguments.  Encyclopedia 1911 Britannica has shown this clearly that he was of Persian ethnicity but yet the encyclopedia going with once normal convention which is increasingly in disuse also calls him an Arabian scientists not due to ethnicity but the fact that Arabian was used as Islamic.    Thankfully everyone except one user agreed with the RFC results.  So the term Arabian in few sources (mainly out-dated) as shown above is not about his ethnicity.  --alidoostzadeh 00:48, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just one more:
'Another great Arab physician of the ninth century was Rhazes, a Persian by birth
(Collier's Encyclopedia: With Bibliography and Index By William Darrach Halsey, Emanuel Friedman, pg 646).  Thus I have shown the term Arab is used for Berbers, copts, Persians and also Muslims.  This was a convention in west.  Where-as none of the authoritative sources have ever claimed Avicenna to be an ethnic Arab.  Culturally he contributed to Persian and Arabic languages.  I think the issue is resolved and had there been any debate about his background, some modern Encyclopedia  and sources like Britannica, Iranica, Encarta, Islam, Columbia would have mentioned it where-as they don't and these are sources relevant to the context.  Note I brought 6 modern encyclopedias (besides I can dig up many more random books but random books might not be relevant to the context) and none of them have a shred of doubt.  I can of course insert these numerous sources in the article, but I don't like to clutter an article with this.--alidoostzadeh 00:48, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes that is a good example.  That is why further research and sources were brought.  All modern Encyclopedias from the last 10 years:Iranica, Britannica, Encyclopedia of Islam, Columbia Encyclopedia, Encarta say he is Persian.  These are sources relevant to the context per wiki rules.   The term Arab is used by some writers (mainly old writers) to describe Persians,Berbers,Copts, anyone speaking Arabic, muslims, any near-easterner and etc. Any how a according to Wikipedia a source needs to be within a context and a good source in this regard was an actual biography about Avicenna and it does not have multiple viewpoints or any ambiguities. Also Ibn Sina contributed to Persian culture since he has important works in this language as well. --alidoostzadeh 17:18, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Britannica says Persian and Muslim.  By today's convention: Muslim is not an ethnicity and Persian is not a religion 

message: I added the section "accusation of disbelief". I can sense that it may be controversial, if you wish to discuss it (with me, personally), please use my talk page and not the annonymus IP address page as I forgot to log in. {Truth 06 05:30, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disbeliever 

message: The following passage seems to be missing a transition:
At first, Ibn Sina entered into the service of a high-born lady; but the emir, hearing of his arrival, called him in as medical attendant, and sent him back with presents to his dwelling. Ibn Sina was even raised to the office of vizier. The emir consented that he should be banished from the country.
The sentence ending "to the office of vizier" seems to be expressing the emir's pleasure with Ibn Sina, yet the sentence immediately following says the emir consented to his exile. 
First, who asked for his exile and why? Second, why would the emir consent to his exile if the last sentence is speaking of raising him to the office of vizier? It is as if I wrote "Jane was in love and married John. So she decided to murder him." It is obvious that something has been removed from this passage.
Unfortunately, I don't have the knowledge to fill this lacuna, nor do I have the time to dig through prior revisions and find out what was removed and why. So I hope someone with more knowledge will look at this passage and fill in the omitted material.
128.164.107.176 13:27, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Question Concerning Text