Talk:Gerundive

message: Greetings. I have edited the bit with reference to the Spanish language. There is no gerundive in Spanish; the only verbal adjetive in that language is the (past) participle. The example of the previous version is of course a gerund.
I will also correct the gerund entry, that has a cross reference to this article.
I have the feeling that the reference to a French gerundive may also be incorrect, precisely for the main reasons alluded in the Spanish case, but I can't assure that, so I'll leave it. Pallida  Mors 13:04, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spanish gerundive?? 

message: Do we really need an invented language here? The artificiality of the language makes this a circular argument, and contributes nothing to the debate other than the promotion of an artefact, you could use Klingon or Quenya with as much (or little) justification. In any case, it's functionally a gerund, whatever the Esperanto world cares to call it.
: It's irrelevant for Wikipedia whether it's an invented language.  But what is relevant is that, to my understanding, the referenced construction is always called a participle by Esperantists.  If it is to be readded, someone should find a citation using that term. Tb (talk) 16:10, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Esperanto gerundive 

message: I am deleting the reference to the Greek gerundive.  I have never seen a Greek grammar that calls the verbal adjective in -teos a gerundive, though I wouldn't be surprised if some did it, just because it serves some of the purposes of the Latin gerundive.  The Greek -teos adjectives are adjectives, not participles, and they don't even have the same range of meanings as the Latin gerundive.  Basically, Greek has two kinds of verbal adjectives: those in -tos and those in -teos.  The ones in -tos work almost exactly like the English suffix -able.  The ones in -teos simply have the dual meaning.  Instead of meaning that something can be done, they mean that it must be done.  But there is no special reference to the future.
More generally, why is a section on gerundives in other languages even necessary?  It seems like this section is for constructions that have been called gerundives by people influenced by Latin grammar.  In reality, it is neither surprising nor interesting that few other languages have a construction that exactly matches the Latin one.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.66.19.127 (talk) 19:10, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Greek gerundives, and gerundives in other languages generally 

message: The form used in Italian and Spanish is known in both languages as 'gerundio' and can be constructed only with the verb 'stare/estar'. It has nothing to do with the gerundive. It signals incomplete activity, in the same way that the Progressive/Continuous form does in English.
The form in Latin known as the 'gerundive' performs two different functions, according to whether it is used attributively or predicatively, for example 
attributive: cupidus sum librorum legendorum (OR, with the gerund, cupidus sum legendi libros)=I like reading books
predicative: hic liber legendus est=this book must be read/this book is to be read.
The English Gerundive has two forms: 'is to be' and 'is to': there is a lot to be done/there is a lot to do'.
The 'passive infinitive' is probably a later form of the 'active infinitive', which now seems to be used exclusively in sentences where the subject is 'there '. A sentence such as 'the lawn is to mow' is not possible in English.Pamour (talk) 14:45, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The paragraph which derives the Italian gerundio (e.g. cantando 'singing') from the gerundive seems to be incorrect. The Italian form is usually derived from the ablative of the gerund (e.g. Martin Maiden A Linguistic History of Italian p. 124). This seems to be confirmed by sentences such as Vidi l'uomo camminando lungo la strade, which means 'I saw the man while I was walking along the road' NOT 'I saw the man walking along the road'. If camminando was adjectival, it could equally refer to the man. Therefore I think it best to delete the paragraph, unless someone produces a better source. Kanjuzi (talk) 08:59, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  gerundio in italian and spanish 

message: Is the gerundive just the future passive participle? If so, why isn’t this mentioned in the first paragraph? 204.158.177.30 (talk) 15:02, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Future passive participle?