Talk:Speak (Hungarian rapper)

message: this whole article almost reads like a joke, but this section in particular is almost entirely fluff. he doesn't touch into "Speak takes us on a philosophical journey through extremist Wahhabism, Marxism, and finally optimistic Post-9/11 philosophy.". this article belongs on uncyclopedia or 4chan. --142.167.227.92 (talk) 21:03, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: themes

message: * Are there any citations for Speak's views on homosexuality and abortion? Unless someone can provide some, I'm going to delete it.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.72.39.133 (talk) 02:52, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Homosexuality

message: Unless you can clearly demonstrate that the lyrics have been released under the GNU Free Documentation License or to the public domain by the artist, they are not appropriate to place either in the article or on this talk page. Since I can find no such release or any reason to believe that's happened, I've removed them. Seraphimblade Talk to me Please review me! 02:43, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Copyright infringement

message: We need sources for the Future and Influence sections. Rikoozik 04:00, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Future and Influence

message: The song's title is "Stop the war". I own one of the first copies. Please check more sources on the internet for reference.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Koratcat (talk • contribs) 07:13, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Correct title for the song 

message: Is it really appropriate to include speak in the genre of rap and hip-hop?  Opera seems like it would be somewhat better.  I'm not sure how to classify him, but the question of what genre to list him as should at least be broached. Niffweed17, Destroyer of Chickens (talk) 19:41, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: genre

message: Per the discussion above, the following additions are proposed to the page Speak (artist). The sources are included in an ad-hoc way here for ease of reading, but will be enclosed in <ref> tags if added to the page. Please add objections, critiques, or suggestions for improvement below the proposed addition. Cnilep (talk) 16:13, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: A note on the nature of these source: The Times is a major London daily; I hope that its reliability is beyond question. YouTube and Digg have no claim to reliability or verification, but are offered as primary sources. Pesticide is pop-culture oriented magazine, Index and HVG Online are news magazines, and Geen Commentaar is a news aggregator; they are less respectable than The Times, but all are independent commercial news sources, not blogs, wikis, or fan sites. Cnilep (talk) 16:32, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

text: Thank you for taking the time to compile this information.  After reviewing the sources, I am inclined to agree that, while not extremely famous, this individual does meet the Wikipedia Biography Notability guidelines.  If Speedman79 is still interested in this subject, perhaps he could give us his thoughts on the above paragraph, giving specific reasons why he has opposed its inclusion.  While I might prefer a slightly different wording, the general ideas seem to be appropriate, as it indicates the reasons for the individual's fame.  I may offer some slight copyediting changes in the coming days, if that's ok with Cnilep.  Finally, I suggest we refrain from adding this to the article for say, three days, while we check to see if Speedman79's concerns have been addressed.  Thanks again! —Matheuler 23:00, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Copy editing is, of course, most welcome. Upon re-reading it, it suddenly feels poorly written to me, too. Funny how it didn't while I was writing it. Cnilep (talk) 14:17, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't mean to imply that it was poor writing.  I just mean that I thought a slight rewording might be good.  But let me know what you think of this: 
Stop The War (New section heading)
Speak is known primarily for his culturally-important 2003 rap single Stop The War (REF 1).   A video for this single appeared on the popular site YouTube, and featured other semi-famous musicians.   (REF 2)  Some critics lampooned the video, with various commentators labeling the song as unintentional humor (REF4) and comparing Speak to the fictional character Borat (REF5).  Nonetheless, Speak has gone on to some success touring in Europe(REF6 & REF7). 
I think this might work out well. I do think we should eliminate the direct reference to Youtube (Ref 3), or else include it as an external link, not a reference.  But altogether I am now in agreement with you that this subject deserves an article, and this section should be good for the article. —Matheuler 23:48, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

text: The only issue I have with this version is with the wording "culturally-important" single. I think that implies that Speak is influential or important within rap, and I do not think that is the case. I'd suggest just "rap single" or "rap song". Cnilep (talk) 15:03, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, you are correct, it does give the impression of undue importance.  I have went ahead and put the proposed text in the article to see what it looks like.  See what you think.  Obviously, feel free to copyedit or make corrections.  If another user feels something about the proposed text is inaccurate, they should let us know on this talk page.  Thanks again for taking the time to compile all that information. —Matheuler 21:18, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed additions 

message: The website www.speakmusic.hu is, I gather, Deák's own site. As such it is a primary source and should be supplemented by secondary sources. Be careful not to draw any analysis or interpretive claims from primary sources. Cnilep (talk) 13:12, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Primary sources are generally accepted for verification of non-controversial, non-interpretive information (like the existence of something), but not for more complex, analytic information. I think the source is probably acceptable if the assertion is only that the songs exist and are available on the web page. Cnilep (talk) 20:51, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Speakmusic as a reference 

message: Although this edit was marked as minor and called "minor tidy" in the edit summary, it removed a small piece of substantive information, including a source. That bit of information had been added pursuant to a long-sought consensus (see Proposed additions, just above). I asked Speedman79 to justify the deletion, but he appears to be on a Wikibreak. Since Speedman79 and I have disagreed about the content of this page in the past, I am reluctant to revert his edit, but wish to bring it up so other editors may revert (or not) as they see fit. Cnilep (talk) 18:19, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Speedman79 is again removing bits of this page. I have reverted his recent edits that removed properly cited material which had been added after a long discussion, above. Please refrain from removing information for which there are references. Cnilep (talk) 21:56, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is this a 'minor tidy'? 

message: I was alerted to the situation by User:Cnilep.  I am very concerned that the consensus version of this article is continuing to be subjected to inappropriate reversions.  I believe that all editors are editing in good faith.  However, concerns should be discussed here before any substantial deletions!  This is especially important for User:Speedman79, whose deletions appear to be inappropriate.  I thank everyone for their vigilant promotion of a pleansant and open editing environment. —Finn Casey * * * 21:53, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stop Inappropriate Deletions  

message: Is this intended sincerely? I'm inclined to revert it, except that Speedman79 has often edited this page in good faith and so deserves the benefit of the doubt. Cnilep (talk) 03:06, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I have reverted the edit, since it appears to have been a joke. If such an attack actually occurred, please cite a reliable source when re-adding. Cnilep (talk) 18:31, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eagle attack?