Talk:Hospitality Club

message: Is there a reason this is listed under Category: Holidays?
: I don't see why it should be, maybe under a "Holidaying" category, but holidays is just dates... FrancisTyers 08:00, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Categories 

message: I added a graph of user growth, personally I think it gives a nice touch to the article, although anyone who disagrees is welcome to remove it... - FrancisTyers 16:58, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Images 

message: Since somebody deleted the link towards the HC members, here it is:
-	 Hospitality club members on Wikipedia Dunemaire 06:36, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Members 

message: :'not ... discuss any aspect of the organizations strategy on their page.'
Is this correct? - FrancisTyers 21:48, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: New addition

message: I've reverted, here is the link: http://www.industree.org/guaka/index.php/Censorship_in_Hospitality_Club - I don't think any of us want it on the front page though do we? - FrancisTyers 09:15, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Oops, I just added the link. But please remove if it at will. I'm currently writing another article, after I got some reactions which were quite shocking for me, like people not being able to send or receive messages at all. And harsh critique about the structure of the organisation of HC. But I'm still waiting for a response from the people who asked me and other people to change the "profile summary", which was saying something about the censorship on the forum... Guaka 14:36, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Feel free to make any changes you see fit, so long as you can source them :) - FrancisTyers 14:43, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Revert

message: I'm a member of HC myself and I know that you can turn of the mail monitoring for your account there if you want. They also make it clear from the very beginning that mail is being scanned. Wikipedia article is not the right place to discuss your personal opinion on the club anyway. --Lysy (talk) 16:07, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, but there are people who cannot receive nor send messages at all, regardless of mail monitoring. And this is not my personal opinion... And besides, you removed a lot more than just the lines about mail monitoring. For that you need a bit more justification than just mentioning bboard and personal opinion.They make it clear that your mail is being scanned, but did you expect that they would remove the mail if you mention CouchSurfing? Did you expect that some members, without any negative comment, cannot send or receive messages at all? Guaka 16:12, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: How do you know your message was removed because it mentioned CouchSurfing ? Maybe it was removed because of something else ? (BTW: could you try sending me a message through HC with "CoachSurfing" mentioned so that we could see if it gets through or not ?) --Lysy (talk) 16:32, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

text: I'm sorry, but your removal of text is totally unjustified! Please restore the text! Guaka 16:13, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I've restored the text in the interests of npov as it is sourced clearly. Explaining that there is no registered organisation is a perfectly valid piece of information to include. Please try to be constructive instead of blanket reverting. I think we're all HC members here. - FrancisTyers 16:17, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Come on guys, you cannot seriously use your own blog page as a source :-) --Lysy (talk) 16:29, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: That isn't my blog. I don't have anything to do with it. - FrancisTyers 16:31, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course it's not yours as it's Guaka's blog. I'm assuming your good faith, FrancisTyers but are you really not aware of what pages are you using for sources ? --Lysy (talk) 16:34, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I wasn't aware that it was Guakas blog no. I added it because I had been given the url by someone else in the club who had expressed dissatisfaction with the way it was run (If you'd like to contact me through the site I will give you his name, but I'd prefer not to write it on this talk page). You can find some of the users who are upset by doing a search for "couchsurfing" in the "profile summary". - FrancisTyers 16:40, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Reading it again, I can see the GuakaBlog. You can remove the reference if you like, but the issue of censorship is also covered here: ... I'm not sure if that is one of Guakas sites too, is it? - FrancisTyers 16:46, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Please read more careful! :) guaka is even in the URL you pasted here :) But though I exchange emails with one or possibly more people working on hospitalityguide.net I don't think there is a single line of text there written by me. Guaka 16:52, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Lol yeah, I must be blind or something - It must be said though that I posted the link before even interacting with Guaka on wikipedia... - FrancisTyers 16:57, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Well, please read the new article I'm working on to get things clear. It's not finished yet, since I'm waiting for a reaction from the "founding fathers" on this open message. But most of the text there is not written by me... :) And in the first article linked to the most important text isn't written by me either.Well, peace... Guaka 16:44, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: As my website is mentioned above and it is in my personal interest to improve hospitality exchange as whole and not particularly for one network, or person/group of people. It has shown more than once that HC claims different than they act and are, this also covers given information by HC about structure, users security and many other topics.. It showed to be necessary to double check any given information by HC (which is most of the time 'fungous') with other sources, which also incl. personal experiences, especially as HC is moving to an 'organization' with one million members, in the interest of hospitality exchange. AlexanderSteinhart 12:01, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: bboard

message: ::moved from User talk:Guaka Guaka 18:54, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course I am disappointed. But I hope the article just mentions facts. Someone else added the link before I did. When reading HC's disclaimer, is it clear that your message will be removed if you mention CouchSurfing? Guaka 16:38, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

text: It should be mentioned because it is rather odd for an organization of nearly 100.000 members, don't you think so? What about continuity? Peace&love! Guaka 16:38, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know. Maybe I'm being naive, but I do not like official organisations, so I see nothing wrong with it. Would having a registered company make you feel better ? I find it easier to trust in people, not in companies or organisations. --Lysy (talk) 17:19, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I trust in people organising. If Wikipedia were managed by Jimbo himself, many problems would have arisen and it wouldn't have grown so big, I think. There are many possible problems I can think of, when there's just one person personally responsible and liable, for that person himself, and also for the whole organisation. It's still doable for a group of 1000 people living in one village, but with 100.000 people all over the world it's practically impossible for those people to personally know the people responsible.And for this reason it should be mentioned in the Wikipedia article if an organisation of nearly 100.000 people isn't registered legally. Guaka 18:54, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: From [[User talk:Guaka]]

message: Do we want the See also heading? I think it's kind of superfluous since there is a hospitality service category now. Guaka 20:55, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: No, I've removed it - FrancisTyers 19:25, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: See also?

message: Just found out CouchSurfing group messages are open to the public. This one, started by the founder of Hospitality Club, is pretty interesting... Guaka 22:52, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: "Check out the original"

message: I really think that we need a discussion about the criticism part. I am a hc member and cs member and was surprised to read that there these rivalries. i checked guakas arguments and saw that indeed quite a few people were unhappy with the way the hospitality club is run. also the censorship thing needs a discussion within the hospitality club. but does it really belong in an encyclopedia? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.135.45.196 (talk • contribs) 11:05, 11 January 2006.
:Can anyone please tell me why criticism should be forbidden on this Hospitality Club article, while it seems perfectly ok on the German version? There are tons of references. How can one possibly ignore this? --Spitzl 16:38, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism 

message: You can copy and paste this: ~~~~ - FrancisTyers 16:25, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Help for Guaka

message: I think it would be nice to have the HC logo on the page but I don't know who owns the rights of it. Or maybe a low resolution version could be uploaded like it is done for many company logos. Does any one of you know more about the licensing? What do you think? --Splette  15:35, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think HC has an official logo yet. There are many examples at the gallery though. - FrancisTyers 15:39, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Uh, I thought there was. At the winter camp in Riga I saw many people with a HC T-shirt and I presumed that was (somehow) official. Looks like I am wrong so forget about it... Thanks, --Splette  15:57, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's anarchy at its best: you want a logo, you draw a logo and you use it. Seriously, if you spotted one "unofficial" logo that was used more than the others in camps and seemed generally accepted, I think it would be interesting to add it to the article. You could call it "the logo members created for themselves" or something. Totally in the spirit, and totally legal as far as I know. There will soon be an "official" one coming along with the upcoming website redesign, but I suppose the unofficial logos will survive to it. --Valmi ✒ 15:13, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

text: I tried it with Glenn's logo and the explanation he gave for it back in 2004. Logos qualify under fair use. I just hope that this was the one logo you had in mind. :-) The "official" HC logo will probably be based on that one. --Valmi ✒ 10:47, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice one! Yes, thats the one I had in mind. --Splette  Talk 12:57, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: HC logo?

message: :Note that this means that a message mentioning an alternative site such as Couchsurfing will be censored. At least some users thinks this is censorship. and Some users thinks this is not about cooperation but about removing the alternatives.
Please provide citations for this information. See Wikipedia:Avoid weasel words and WP:CITE. Thanks - FrancisTyers 17:51, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed pending citation

message: The Hospitality Service article says that "Hospitality Club is the direct successor Hospex, the first Internet-based service, operating out of Poland since 1992." Who's right, the Hospitality Club article or the Hospitality Service article...? -- Helen 84.56.161.203 15:36, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  origin 

message: Reviews Written by Veit Kuehne "veit.net" (Dresden, Germany) at Amazon.com. Guaka 16:58, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Interesting... But Guaka, sometimes I get the impression you got too much time down there in South America :) --Splette  Talk 17:39, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My time in South America is finished. And I hadn't really found that myself :)  Guaka 02:04, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reviews of HC and CS by Veit 

message: Daily page views, Daily reach, Daily traffic trend
more interesting - FrancisTyers · 11:24, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Activity? 

message: "In June 2006 a group of highly involved HC volunteers set up HCvol, an NGO, "where volunteers can organize their work in a democratic and transparent way. http://mytravelbook.org/hcvolwiki/index.php/History_of_HCvol" was removed by Amarent with the justification: "and guaka does it again. Why don't you add some critical notes to the CS article, instead always add "facts" to the HC one here?)". Guaka 10:11, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: HCVol is now redundant no? Has it not been replaced by Be Welcome ? - Francis Tyers · 14:31, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: HCvol

message: :Image:HospitalityClub-GobuyanLogo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 02:34, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:HospitalityClub-GobuyanLogo.png

message: Could someone update the graph of the numbers of members, please? April 2006 is a long time ago. Otherwise I'd suggest to remove it. After all, the exponential growth of HC is mentioned in the article already. --Splette :) How's my driving? 19:27, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I tried to generate another one, but I've mislaid the data for before 2005, so I only have 2005-2007, which hardly seems worth it. - Francis Tyers · 15:18, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: graph

message: = a most conspicuous sign of HOW DEAD the Hospitality Club is!
´'Angel.García, Nuremberg / BAVARIA 62.156.40.183 (talk) 23:02, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  SINCE SEPT: 2007 . S I L E N C E ! 

message: In recent years
In the past five years, the number of active members dropt dramatically (1). HC does not publish actual figures, but the grief goes that > 90 % of members are inactive - a fact that can be ascertained by clicking the profiles.
Personally, founder Veit KUEHNE will not disclose his finances not the club's structures (2), or  prove the "thousands of volunteers" ' real existence. Volunteers that left,  complain of unbearable conditions (3). He eagerly promoted in July 2012 the partnership - resented by most members - with the Californian hôtel broker Airbed & Breakfast [AirBnB], yielding HC a provision with every booking. The broker's profit scheme contrasts diametrically against HC's and its members' idealism; apart from advertising for their own competitor, as each bed  can either be marketed with profit, or be ceded for philanthropic reasons for free.
The primary reasons for the disillusionment you find in every forum, every blog are the huge percentage of "dead wood" = inactive members,  the snaillike communications, and the leader's inaction and inaccessibility.With > 90 % of members inactive since years, even some major cities have but 1 - 10 active hosts left (4).  -  Bed requests using the official channels may take 6 months or more - all communications are being spam-tested, which purportedly takes time. - Last not least, all improvement schemes of motivated members meet grave's silence from Dresden Headquarters, and the founder posts but every couple of years, announcing improvements that never materialize - this deafens whatever initiative (5). The young join CouchSurfing; the dead wood stays (6). Homepage Copyright: 2006 !
(1) English homepage: 707 000 members - other languages: 328 000 as of 1-1-2014
(2) CS discussion
(3) CS discussion
(4) In Greater Nuremberg [750 000 inhabitants], only Gartenfreund is still active.
(5) Kymryt from Philadelphia, 75 years old, Summer 2013: Forum: „Ok, how to make HC a better place“
http://secure.hospitalityclub.org/hc/forum.php?action=DisplayMessage&StartMessageId=309882
(6) Kymryt from Philadelphia 4 October 2013:  You CAN try to write to the folks at feedback directly. Good luck!
You can write a complaint to VEIT - he is the head honcho. 62.156.40.183 (talk) 23:10, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent developments 

message: Under Sitemap, your find 'General information Pages', and there, very tiny >Travel Guide: Help and Information<. This is NO wiki and can neither be altered nor expanded; it consists 90 % of terms of contract.
I erased it. - Ángel.García 93.193.64.66 (talk) 17:45, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  "There are also wiki-like Travel Guide sections ..." 

message: The latest additions contain nearly no sources and look like original research. Please provide some sources. Arved (talk) 06:42, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Original research 

message: @Unbh Read
"Trip to the country from which the foreigner is not required, you only need to provide
the necessary documents (eg. the Imam), which are taken to the country of the foreigner and
there based on the original certificate is issued in an illegal marriage (by a corrupt official).
With this document the relationship is legalized in the registry office in the target country, and
authentic copy of the marriage certificate is sent to an alien country where it serves as a basis
for applying for a visa. One way to authenticate the stay is to establish contact via the Internet
with the resident EU offer accommodation in their homes and apartments. This is done inter
alia through the website www.hospitalityclub.org. Individuals who invite foreigners this way,
do not they carry them and it does not charge any fees (or take a small amount associated with
the invitation). And foreigners can move freely within the EU's MS without the need to
register their stay [13]." Geysirhead (talk) 16:14, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: This article is a pretty poor source  in very badly written English. It's only a passing mention for HC, for what is broadly an extraordinary claim that HC is a route for Ismalic terrorists to get visas. There's no indication in the source the HC is actually used this way by terrorists, just that it could b. This doesn't belong any where near the article unless these extensive RS that HC is actually being used in this way. The fact that it is mentioned somewhere is not enough.Unbh (talk) 02:55, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: @Unbh "pretty poor source  in very badly written English"? Is it proven WP:PSCI? The original sentence was In 2017, HC is mentioned as a means for unwanted foreigners travelling to countries with strict visa policies. per WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV.--Geysirhead (talk) 14:38, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: A mention is not a POV. Anything that just says 'was mentioned' is not strong enough anyway  Unbh (talk) 21:51, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

text: Vague claims made in passing in obscure sources rarely belong in articles. AndyTheGrump (talk) 22:05, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  HC is also mentioned as a means for Islamic terrorists travelling to countries with strict visa policies.