Talk:New York City/Archive 4

message: Sorry, but the phrasing on the Sicilian Mafia is a little inaccurate. Please refer to the article, Arnold Rothstein. The Mafia was created when Rothstein died, and then the major initial figures "inherited" many of Rothstein's various nefarious enterprises. THAT was how the Mafia originated and gained its power. A common urban myth, but one that is not accurate. allie 14:19, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Crime

message: I would like to discuss a couple of points regarding your recent edits.  Please remember Hinduism is a religion, India is a country.  Many Indians are not Hindus, and a considerable number of Hindus are not Indians.  New York has many residents of Indian, Pakistani, and Bangladeshi origin, all countries in South Asia.  I suppose we could list all countries where New Yorkers have roots, but that list would look suspiciouslly like List of countries.  It's arbitrary on how many to list, but please don't confuse religions with countries or ethnic groups.  Judaism is also a religion, while Jews (at least for the purposes of Wikipedia) are an ethnic group.  
More imprortant, please do not say that the silly stereotype that all New Yorkers are jerks is true without evidence, whatever that would be.  And if you want to discuss racism in the city, please treat it seriously, and not as something New Yorkers are supposedly 'proud' of along with pollution etc.--Pharos 04:35, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hello user using 69.135.212.3, 69.135.213.232, Dodgymechanic 

message: I've been thinking we should delete the section titled 'Sister Cities," since I'm not even sure what the purpose of that list is supposed to be. Exactly how is Budapest a sister city to New York? I think we can all agree that the list is entirely subjective and arbitrary. And if no one objects, I think I'll delete that section in a few weeks. johnleonard--Johnleonard 14:48, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sister Cities? 

message: This supports my recent rollback. Niteowlneils 18:12, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Citation for "global cities"

message: Hello all. I think the list of museums here is in a very sorry state of affairs, as most of the listings just lead to dead links. Over the next few weeks I'll be working on improving things a bit, and I was hoping some of you could help me out with this effort. Namely, I think it would be a good idea to have at least a provisional article set up for each of the museums listed. --Jleon 14:17, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Museums list 

message: I couldn't help but notice the recent back and forth over two figures stated in the intro. Between using 8 million or 8.1 million people for the population, and between 309 and 322 square miles for the city limits. Personally I think either set of numbers is within an acceptable level of accuracy. For the population, the figure of 8 million is a good even number that reflects the 2000 census. On the other hand, the 8.1 million reflects the 2003 census estimates (according to the census website it was 8,085,742 in 2003). Of course the population of NYC is usually considered to be vastly undercounted by the census, it would probably be inappropriate for us to put in unofficial counts such as 8.2 or 8.3 million on sheer conjecture.  As for the square mileage of the five boroughs, 309 or 311 are usually used as the official number, however I have seen the 322 number in some other sources. I believe the discrepency is due to the question of how much of the marshland in Jamaica Bay should you consider to be actual land? Either way, I think both numbers can be considered reasonable estimates. --Jleon 14:24, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe, but let's hear it first from someone other than an anon editor who alters the figures without comment or reference.  Postdlf 14:37, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Why not just give both the 2000 census and 2003 census estimate in exact numbers (as we do for most other US cities)?  The Census, by the way  gives 303.3 sq. miles as the land area of New York.  john k 16:49, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dispute over population and city limits 

message: I think a Statue of Liberty pic should be the 1st pic in the article. The pic is more colorful than the midtown pic, and the Statue of Liberty is an international symbol of NYC.
WhisperToMe 01:27, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Header picture

message: According to History..............
Giovanni da Verrazzano was the first European man to find Manhattan Island when he visited......................
http://www.win.tue.nl/~engels/discovery/verrazzano.html
The French Speaking Belgians called Hugenots were the very first Europeans to settle on Manhattan Island and the area.
The Dutch followed later.............
Falsehoods like this is why I am writing an article all about Wikipedia's distorted truths....................
SD
:"Wildy Innaccurate!!!!"? ... "Falsehoods"? Interesting that you are claiming to write a "tell-all" article about Wikipedia's "distorted truths" rather than discuss these issues on the appropriate talk page. You make assertions but no connections to "falsehoods" in the articles. You give no citation about the Hugenots. And, of course, you could grace us with a real username instead of an anonymous IP and actually try putting "truth" in the articles.
:I don't know where you would be submitting this article, but you will be deceiving those who read it if you don't describe the nature of the Wikipedia, that anyone (including you) can edit it, that those who would post lies or distortions are balanced by those who seek them out and attempt to portray them accurately. Your rant suggests that some Ubermeister controls the content to present a distorted picture. -- Cecropia | explains it all ® 22:50, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: To the anon: what you mentioned is indeed largely covered in this and other articles. Certainly it is well accepted  established that Verrazzano was the first European to enter the Upper Bay.  However, according to his journal accounts, Verrazzano anchored in the Narrows (where he received a group of Lenape canoes) but did not put ashore on Manhattan.  He describes the harbor asa  "lake", and does not describe Manhattan in any particular detail in his journals, and certainly did not know it was an island itself. The first European to put ashore on Manhattan was almost certainly Hudson in 1609. The first Europeans to set up a long-term encampment on the island (or anywhere within the present five boroughs) were the expedition of Adriaen Block in 1610, sailing for the Dutch East India Company. The first true European residents of the island were the company garrisson personnel at Fort Amsterdam on the island's tip. The Huguenots (Walloons) you spoke of--yes they were the first family settlers. The first Walloon wave in 1625 were essentiall company employees, brought in to raise food for the company garrison on Manhattan and upriver at Fort Orange (but they were certainy preceded by the garrisson itself). Manhattan was not of strategic importance to the company, so much of the cleared area was given over to cattle grazing (the Walloon families) to feed the company personnel. -- Decumanus 23:06, 2005 Feb 9 (UTC)
Point of information: SD surely stands for User:Supercool Dude, who was active for a short while but grew upset when some of his contributions were not appreciated by some fellow users.  I'm sure he wasn't trying to be anonymous, but just isn't signing in anymore.--Pharos 01:09, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wildy Innaccurate!!!! 

message: I think the section on Communications and Media arguably should be refiled under the preceding section about Tourism, Recreation, and the Arts.  Maybe not the TV News and Newspapers section, but the Film section probably should be moved.  I didn't want to make a major change without some Talk first.  I'm also planning on a section about the Music Industry.  Kaisershatner 16:19, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Media and the Arts

message: UN has always met in NYC - though Security Council also was in Nassau
http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/F/FlushingU1S1.asp
http://www.queenscourier.com/spclissue/israel/united.htm
http://www.un.org/Pubs/chronicle/2004/webArticles/060304_RalphBunche.asp
http://www.qgazette.com/news/2003/0625/Feature_Stories/003.html
http://www.newsday.com/community/guide/lihistory/ny-history-hs741a,0,7354306.story?coll=ny-lihistory-navigation
http://www.what-where.info/usny_queens_museum_of_art.htm
Please edit accordingly--JimWae 05:06, 2005 Mar 13 (UTC)
--Edit what accordingly? The UN may have met in different places, but those places never had the "headquaters" of the UN. I appreciate your research on this, but by your standards we should also mention San Francisco in the intro. The current HQ is the only complex of buildings that has ever served as the permanent HQ of the UN. --Jleon 05:37, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: UN Headquarters was in Flushing, Queens

message: The article says, "New York City is also home to the nation's largest community of American Jews...."  I'm sure that's true, but at one point I thought I read that it wasn't just limited to Americans; New York was described as "the world's largest Jewish city", meaning that more Jews live in NYC than in any other city in the world.  Does anyone know whether that's true? JamesMLane 09:37, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The website of the World Jewish Congress estimated the Jewish pop. of NYC at 1.9 million, I think in 1991; this would make it the largest population of Jews in a single city in the entire world.  The subdivisions of Russia found at that site include total populations of less than a million in Russia and Ukraine, which I'm guessing are the biggest.  I'll double check on this.  The Jewish population of Israel is 4.7 million but distributed among many different cities. Kaisershatner 02:06, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Jewish community

message: Tweaked this a little; I think we can make a bolder statement of what makes NYC an incomparable city.  I also think the UN reference might need to be dropped down.  Compared to all of the rest of that stuff, it's the weakest link (in my opinion).  Hope my changes aren't thought to be horrible.  Kaisershatner 01:59, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Opening paragraph