Talk:Nibelung

message: I'm just trying to dab Hel, but where it says Hel in this article, it is refering to a place and not a goddess. Hel is the goddess of the underworlds, Helheim and Niflheim, in Norse mythology, so could the person who wrote the intro be refering to the underworlds ruled by Hel? BlankVerse 15:17, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hel? 

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thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018) 

message: I think this page needs to be completely rewritten. I might give it a go once I finish dealing with Gudrun.--Ermenrich (talk) 18:34, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rewrite 

message: Gillespie is wrong if he really wrote it is Celtic, because it is Germanic. He is not a specialist of the Celtic languages. There is no *alah in the Celtic languages. In all the sources it is said it is Germanic. Check it here for instance https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/alhs. *Nivi-alah is a very well studied compound in Northern French toponymy, only in the very north of France where there were Germanic settlements, and nowhere else, that gave birth for instance to the place-names such as Neaufles, Neauphle, Niafles, etc. In addition the Nibelungen have nothing to do with the Celts.  Nortmannus (talk) 05:14, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: You need RS to contest another RS, which Wiktionary is not. The question is not whether the Nibelungen have anything to do with the Celts, but whether the name Nivelles does. According to Gillespie there is a Celtic theory as well as a Germanic one.—Ermenrich (talk) 12:39, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

text: , I believe that you are right and that this is a Germanic (Frankish) toponym. However, we don't write about the Truth here. We only add information per WP:RS.--Berig (talk) 22:46, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes and it is exactly the same. Alah is not a Celtic root at all. It is althochdeutsch, altsächsisch and the Gothic form is ahls. Gillespie is completely wrong. There is no Celtic theory about this compound, it is just the wrong statement of a single man. Question : is he notorious in linguistics ? What did he publish ?. Yes Berig, we don’t write about the truth, but giving a single source is about the same as giving your own opinion and widespreading a personnal theory.Nortmannus (talk) 00:54, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: You don't seem to have gotten the bit about needing wp:RS... You can tell us your personal opinion all day long but you can't edit the article based on it. According to Gillespie:  If you're unhappy with that, you'll have to take it up with him. Gillespie also includes the proposed Germanic etymology *Niuwi-alha "new sanctuary" cited to "Kaufmann, 268 f. It's clear that Gillespie did not think of these two etymologies as being the same, which appears to be what you are arguing. Unless you can show that Gregoire did not propose a Celtic etymology *Nivialah, you can't remove it just because you disapprove.--Ermenrich (talk) 01:12, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

text: Um, Grégoire wrote an article. Since you don’t seem to have been able to read the citation I’m not sure why you’re so dismissive.—Ermenrich (talk) 02:08, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

text: The only way, you can go ahead here is to show that the Celtic derivation is a minority one, per WP:DUE.--Berig (talk) 05:22, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Grégoire is on JSTOR - he refers to scholars making a Celtic derivation: Joseph Mansion Oud-Gentsche Naamkunde (1924), derives it from Celtic, as does Kurth Frontière linguistique I 468. However, Gillespie appears to have read the page incorrectly (perhaps his French was bad), because Grégoire says that *Nivialah is "vieux germanique" and does not provide a proposed form for the Celtic toponym. So I will amend the page accordingly.--Ermenrich (talk) 14:02, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Brilliant!--Berig (talk) 15:45, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  *Nivialah 

message: Anyone? 2A00:23C7:2B13:9001:D4E3:C1DF:500C:A440 (talk) 21:51, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Dronke reference notes (or whatever they are called) do not work.