Talk:Counterculture

message: These are posted as "examples of counterculture" but do not have any sources backing this claim up.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.89.180.100 (talk) 02:54, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hatsune Miku? Gorillaz? 

message: I've cleaned up many comma splices, pattern problems, and moved sentences within the section to make things more clear.  For instance, I moved the introduction of Hippies into the overall discription of the counterculture of the 60s where people are spoken about rather than have it next to a bunch of 60s musicians.  I have combined the music and pop-art paragraph with the sentence on spirituality.  I've taken a couple of areas where several words were used into a single word.  I have concentrated on leaving the message and tone intact, trying to only improve flow. HIPPIES ROCC
Additional opportunities for cleanup remain.  The phrase "Vietnam War" seems to be overused in this section.  There are weasel words that need cleanup (i.e. "they have left a lasting mark on society that continues to inspire modern-day movements." --which movements?;  "These demonstrations went on to create far-reaching changes affecting many aspects of society."  --which changes, which aspects?).  The answers may be obvious to the original authors, but not neccessarily to every reader.  Citations are needed for many of the claims in this section, much of it reads like original research. 
Jamesfett (talk) 13:23, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup 

message: The cultural impact of Surrealism persisted after its heyday. It remained attractive to leftist artists and writers who were not comfortable with the Stalinist cultural model. Among them is the Martinique poet and playwright Aimé Césaire who served on the editorial board of US surrealist journal VVV. Breton was an avid admirer of Césaire, whose 1955 "Discourse on Colonialism" was republished by Monthly Review. Along with CLR James, Césaire served as a revolutionary alternative to Stalinism for a generation of Caribbean intellectuals. Another editorial board member at VVV was Philip Lamantia, who was to become a leading figure of the new poetry of the 1940s and 50s that included the beats and the San Francisco Renaissance writers. Lamantia, in effect, represents a link between the counter-culture of the 1930s and that of the 1960s. Surrealist poetry and culture were read by young people in the 1950s and 60s, "who were searching for an alternative to the Rationalism of their time, which amounted to Cadillac tailfins, the H-Bomb, conformity and Madison Avenue for all practical purposes."Louis Proyect Surrealism, Freud and Trotsky Columbia University 27-May-2002
This subsection was removed from Sixties and seventies counterculture. See more on this on the Surrealism Talk page. Ought it not be included here in some form? -12.7.202.2 (talk) 21:23, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It is up to the person adding the material to show how it is relevant.  The original poster did not do so, and neither have you.  Most of this is not relevant to the subject of the counterculture.  As I have said elsewhere, the part about Lamantia might be relevant in the article about the Beat Generation, but not here. ---RepublicanJacobiteThe'FortyFive' 01:27, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Surrealism and Counterculture

message: The following was stuck right in the middle of the '60s and '70s counterculture subsection, right in the middle of a paragraph on music, actually.  
:The pop-art culture led by Andy Warhol also played a part in social change in the United States by redefining what art was and what made it valuable. Warhol's mass-produced monographs and silk-screens, such as the iconic Campbell's Soup Cans, challenged the notion that art is only about certain subjects (i.e., wealthy patrons or pretty landscapes), or that art is a singular creation. An entire generation's liberal views about art and drugs found prominent expression in Warhol's paintings, films, and music.
This has no references, and extraordinary claims like this need a good source. ---<fontface="Georgia">RepublicanJacobiteThe'FortyFive'</font> 17:17, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Warhol? 

message: Is there no one who can add any research results about the effects of labeling trends as countercultures? Surely this is of interest to the topic, and some sort of research must have been done on the subject.
As I recall it, the expression rapidly became a self-identifying phrase by those it referred to. (Unlike "hippie" which was imposed from externally and only used ironically as self-identification.) There was a sharp drop-off of the term's use in mass media in the U.S. at some point in the '70s. As I recall at least one newspaper chain wrote an article (A bit Orwellian, I found it when I read it) stating they would thenceforth refuse to employ the expression "counterculture". Unfortunately it would be difficult (but possible) to track this down. The thinking behind this would make an outstanding addition to this article.  talk) 00:02, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  effect of terming any social/-political movement as 'counterculture' 

message: "...use of explicit language, graphical description of sex, violence and illicit activities and uncopyrighted use of "safe" characters involved in everything mentioned." Wha??
81.107.31.178 (talk) 10:15, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unintelligible sentence (in the section on Russia) 

message: I noticed that this page emphasizes it's distinction from "Fringe Culture," but "Fringe Culture" redirects to here, and this page makes no mention of fringe culture beyond the one sentence.
Some clarification would be appreciated.
70.173.70.232 (talk) 06:44, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Redirect issue 

message: Could this article be combined with others that are similar?  It seems that there is a lot of overlap.
--RichardMills65 (talk) 03:22, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that this article is designed to cover the "counterculture" concept specifically and its various incarnations generally, and therefore warrants being separate. RobertGustafson (talk) 08:45, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Combine 

message: I have moved the "Please check ISBN" tag to outside the citation tag (immediately after it); there seems to be a problem with nesting brace tags. This way, the link brackets around the ISBN # (which might confuse casual readers) don't appear.
RobertGustafson (talk) 08:42, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regarding ISBN on Paul Krugman book 

message: * How big or cohesive do you have to be to be a counterculture? How big or cohesive do you have to be to be covered by the Wikipedia page on counterculture? (The existing definition isn't doing all that much for me. It says there's a size/duration threshold but I have no idea how to determine what that is.)
* Did Western counterculture really end in the mid 1970s, never to return? Is hip-hop a counterculture? Is Antiglobalization a global counterculture?
* Why no images on a page so well suited for them? (Difficulty of choosing?)  I particularly think we can do better at the top than a sociology graph—sociology might study this topic, but it's not even a subset.
* Can we say more about the general properties of counterculture in a first section that would flesh out the lead?
OXOXO groupuscule (talk) 03:01, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Good ideas. I agree the article could do with widening out somewhat to include other concepts of counterculture, but we need to get some consensus for any changes. Post up here any ideas and let's see what folks make of them. thanks Peter morrell 13:56, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some big questions 

message: Is hipsterism really a counterculture (as recently added by User:Gregorik)? It's an interesting notion, but I think there's also an argument to be made that hipsters are not sufficiently "counter" to the "mainstream" culture. I would also guess that the 1973 source at the end of that sentence in the lede doesn't mention "hipsters". Maybe there are sources on the topic? This (instantly) classic article on Hipsters does seem to argue that hipsterism is not a true counterculture.
Also I would continue to suggest that hip-hop, especially in its heyday, represents a very real counterculture. (Hoping to add something about that when time permits...) groupuscule (talk) 15:36, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes both Hip hop culture in its "heyday" as you saysay did encounter alot of criticism and without a doubt challenged the mainstream.  Hipster culture does as well.  There should also be more details about Punk/DIY Culture, at least as an overview. For now I will add them in the see also. ErdoS (talk) 19:00, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hipsterism? 

message: These recent edits seem to only add weasel words, with edit summaries saying things like "this is unreferencable." If no reference can be found, it has to be removed. Uncited "it has been argued that" or "some say" aren't ok. Assuming good faith, I'm posting here instead of reverting because it's possible the sources that are cited don't actually make the claims that were in the article -- but I haven't checked them. --Rhododendrites (talk) 20:46, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Addition of weasel words 

message: I don't see the validity of mentioning Charles Manson. There are countless murderers who weren't part of any "counterculture". Should the page on conservatism mention a random list of conservative murderers???--Jack Upland (talk) 12:24, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Charles Manson 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Please share comments! Learner001 (talk) 00:53, 15 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is Ken Westerfield's Frisbee Career Notable Here? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I'm not a Wikipedia person, so apologies about the likely terrible formatting. But what about the current anti-sjw movement? It umbrella's things like men's rights, nationalism, traditionalism, the so called alt-right, libertarianism, "classic liberalism", centrism, in a general, and very obviously rising opposition to societies currently accepted moral mores grounded in intersectional feminism and the counterculture of the 60s. It's also gotten to the point of affecting culture, it's language, values and ideas even though, its not quite mainstream at least with older demographics. It could also be termed reactionary, but then what countercultural movement isn't? In terms of era, I think it could be quite specifically be defined in terms of the men's rights movement to some time in the late 70s, or if you are talking about the mass rise of loose set of values, perhaps some time in the rise emergence of the men's rights movement in the electronic age, or some moment like gamergate, which is around the time things really started to grow. If someone had the time, to me, it would be worth an add. I kind of expected to see it here already. Although perhaps these things are only labelled in retrospect? Again, apologies if I haven't edited this right! And no offense if you want to remove it. 
119.224.85.183 (talk) 13:57, 13 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anti-sjwism and 'the culture war' 

message: Per the opening sentence of Counterculture,
:A counterculture (also written counter-culture) is a subculture
Per the last sentence in the lede of Subculture,
:Subcultures differ from countercultures.
The only support for the latter sweeping claim is
:In 2007, Ken Gelder proposed to distinguish subcultures from countercultures based on the level of immersion in society.
with little explanation of that final term.
Is it possible to get both articles on the same metaphoric page?Weeb Dingle (talk) 22:42, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  definitional clash 

message: I don't know any nonwestern examples, but heres my list of possible topics
present day examples
1. hacker culture
2. goth culture
3. chan culture
historical examples
4. hermeticism
5. earlyprotestantism
6. christianity before constantine  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jamesthefrank (talk • contribs) 09:40, 5 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  some suggestions for more topics/sections outside hippie movement 

message: The first sentence is a definition for the subject:
" A counterculture is a subculture whose values and norms of behavior differ substantially from those of mainstream society, often in opposition to mainstream cultural mores." 
To me counterculture is the culture that develops around another culture. But what's this about mainstream society? "A subculture whose norms and behaviours differ substantially from those of mainstream society" that could just be any culture. Say Birdwayching.
How about
"Counterculture are subcultures whose common values among their members are a rejection towards those of a wider culture they belong to."
Or more simply:
" A counter culture is one whose identity is based around the rejection of another culture."  — Preceding unsigned comment added by TZubiri (talk • contribs) 16:48, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Different definition 

message: I don't write anything here often, and I usually just use this site for personal research purposes, but seeing lately how the quality has dwindled and objectivity has become a thing of the past. The era of being able to find unbiased information on the internet is past us, and I weep.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.120.108.71 (talk) 03:03, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  The "Examples" section reads like contrived filler because the source is contrived filler