Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Chemistry/Structure drawing workgroup/Archive May 2007

message: My schoolboy German can't handle this, so I got Google to translate.  It looks like they pretty much say the same as us, but they (a) advocate Public Domain for all simple drawings and (b) they only include terminal methyls when highlighting them (e.g. for stereochemistry). This is what Google gave me for the main graphics sections:
;Recommended formats and upload
For structural formulas SVG or png are the recommended formats. Pictures in the png format should have a high resolution (width of at least 2000 pixels), in order to be able to be used in printable media. When such a high resolution is used, additional smoothing is unnecessary. Simple black and white is sufficient for 2D formulae. Uploading to Wikimedia Commons makes it possible for sister projects to use the structural formulas as well. From it follows also that connecting names or other German-language text should be placed in the picture legend, and not in the image file. 
;Licensing
Since structural formulas do not achieve the necessary creation height, in order to be protected, it is enough to publish them under a Public Domain license. Explanation concerning licensing [work on] Licenses are there to protect intellectual property. Most structural formula diagrams might, however, not constitute patentable works due to the small and/or missing creation height anyway (see §§ 1 and 2 exp. 2 UrhG), would be thus in common-free and could not at all be protected. Such structural formula diagrams should therefore not be placed under a license (neither the GNU FDL nor any CC license), but rather be marked directly as public domain (in Commons, with the tag ).
;Uniformity of 2D formulae
;Size
In order to reach within the Wikipedia a uniform appearance of the structural formulas, Heteroatoms should be use the font Arial with character size 13 pt, and bond lengths of 0,7 cm. In the somewhat better molecular editors these parameters can be adjusted manually. The accompanying picture can serve (in original size) as a comparison standard. An edge of for instance 5 px is recommended. Png files should possess a dissolution from 1000 to 2000 pixels. Smaller files are unsuitable for the pressure! With SVG the dissolution does not play a role. 
;Stand representation/detailed representation 
Carbon atoms are usually not explicitly written, except if the atom is special — such as a chiral carbon, or as a "reaction partner", or for a chain with less than ten carbons. Therefore, terminal methyl groups are not represented as –CH3, but as simple lines. Such a representation is known as a "skeletal formula", and it is the standard for us, except in the aforementioned cases. The Skeletal formula article provides further information on this type of representation.
=== Comments on German guidelines ===
Nice find, can you give the German reference? The Google translation doesn't seem bad at all, given the circumstances, but it would be nice to be able to link through. Two comments:
*The guidelines make the comment about international usefulness, which is why we should not use "Me" for a methyl group (it can mean "metal" in German). The comments about text should also apply on English Wikipedia: apart from anything else, image text resizes badly (much less readable than atom labels).
*Please do not upload anything but the simplest structure diagrams as ! The German guidelines give a correct statement of German copyright law, which is notorious for requiring a high level of creativity to qualify for copyright: in general (esp. in UK and US), structure diagrams should be assumed to be protected by copyright and hence a tag such as  or  should be used.
Physchim62 (talk) 17:36, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Link is here, and also provides for 3D models. Myself and Rifleman have improved the original Google output, BTW. Fvasconcellos 17:49, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe we had an inconclusive discussion about the copyright status of chemical structures some time ago. Somewhere. Anyway, I'm no expert, but what would amount to be the "simplest" structure? I've tagged *all* my original uploads of structures as pd-inelig. There are probably only a few irreducible representations of a molecule, and I don't think you can copyright that? --Rifleman 82 18:29, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  German style guidelines 

message: Nice find, can you give the German reference? The Google translation doesn't seem bad at all, given the circumstances, but it would be nice to be able to link through. Two comments:
*The guidelines make the comment about international usefulness, which is why we should not use "Me" for a methyl group (it can mean "metal" in German). The comments about text should also apply on English Wikipedia: apart from anything else, image text resizes badly (much less readable than atom labels).
*Please do not upload anything but the simplest structure diagrams as ! The German guidelines give a correct statement of German copyright law, which is notorious for requiring a high level of creativity to qualify for copyright: in general (esp. in UK and US), structure diagrams should be assumed to be protected by copyright and hence a tag such as  or  should be used.
Physchim62 (talk) 17:36, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Link is here, and also provides for 3D models. Myself and Rifleman have improved the original Google output, BTW. Fvasconcellos 17:49, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe we had an inconclusive discussion about the copyright status of chemical structures some time ago. Somewhere. Anyway, I'm no expert, but what would amount to be the "simplest" structure? I've tagged *all* my original uploads of structures as pd-inelig. There are probably only a few irreducible representations of a molecule, and I don't think you can copyright that? --Rifleman 82 18:29, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comments on German guidelines