Talk:Infidelity

message: I propose that this article is amended to reflect the more widely-understood definition of infidelity, i.e. sexual unfaithfulness. The current 
i am a chicken and would like to eat some pie now
Also isn't the rest of the definition of sexual infidelity a bit on the woolly liberal side?? --Thoughtcat 08:09, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree on the religious definition. I don't think it's what people expect to find here. I can't really argue with the wooly liberal thing, but I was trying to stave off complaints from polyamorists that not everyone who has sex with person B while in a relationship with person A is engaging in infidelity—I think it's an NPOV issue. That said, I'm a wooly liberal myself, so I will readily admit to the possibilty of having gone too far in the other direction and being unable to recognize it.–♥ «Charles A. L.» 20:13, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: March 2006

message: This article is, frankly, not very complete or encyclopedic - it is barely more than a stub. The subject is dealt with far more fully and in a far more encyclopedic way over at Incidence of Monogamy. I think this page should just be a redirect there. No useful content would be lost.
(Actually I made the redirect to a full article at Adultery.
DanB†DanD 05:23, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Better article elsewhere

message: I suggest re-opening this page and merging the contents of the other two into this one. Then apply careful links to some related topics in order to faciltate the reader's research of this area viz: Adultery, Affair, Emotional affair, Mistress (lover), Friendship,  Monogamy, Incidence of Monogamy, Forms of nonmonogamy such as Polyamory, Polygyny. Platonic love and Romantic friendship as well as Human bonding, Human sexuality, Interpersonal chemistry, Intimate relationship, Intimacy, Emotional intimacy, Physical intimacy. And the related topics for example: Lovemaps, Love styles, Romantic love, Love (scientific views). Then there are the Sugar daddy,  Transactional sex, Enjo kōsai articles and the series on Love.--Ziji 23:50, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge Affair and Emotional Affair 

message: Please don't delete any of the links in the sub header, even if they offend. It has taken me ages to find them. It is not yet complete. I have tried to make this list useful to any one from any culture or religion researching the topic through wikipedia. I have included incest because some extra marital affairs could conceivably be statutory rape in some cultures, a concensual crime in others and depending on the proximity of relationship (eg 1st cousin, step child) or variation of age of consent or differing cultural defintions of sexual contact --Ziji 04:46, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm coninuing a merge by steath - have moved the section on office romance from Affair back into it's own article and wikified it, placed it in a broader context. In the process reduced Affair by one section and at same time edited and improved Affair, which now might stand on its own?--Ziji  (talk email) 22:11, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Begun merge with See Also sub-header 

message: At this moment, infidelity is defined through definitions of fidelity, perhaps somehow the result should be that the word is defined through its proper denominator? As one can see, there's more fidelity definition in this Infidelity article than there is in the actual Fidelity article, which is rather a stub than a good article. How do we cope with definitions of words that are their opposites?
thedarkestclear Talk 20:56, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Operationally? Would it help if we defined each type, such as sexual infidelity, by its acts and effects - always a bit long winded but can be done without reference to fidelity per se? I checked the fidelity article - you are right it is a stub and this article defines fidelity better as well.--Ziji  (talk email) 22:08, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe. Check the first sentences:(1) Infidelity is literally a breach of faith. (2) Fidelity, derived from the Latin word for faithfullness, is the principle of not deceiving one capable of being deceived. (3) Infidelity is a breach of good faith that applies in a number of other contexts (for example religious). (4) In the context of this article about close relationships, the infidelity referred to is also called cheating, defined as "any violation of the mutually agreed-upon rules or boundaries of a relationship". (1) and (3) are the same, whilst (2) is defined from fidelity instead of infidelity, and (4) overlaps (3) with a confusing of context. These four points could be put in one to two sentences, followed by the fact various contexts can exist (as with any concept). I'll give it a shot.thedarkestclear Talk 09:59, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thatt would be much clearer and if you don't get to it I will  have a shot, at same time as following your thoughts on a merge.--Ziji  (talk email) 00:29, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Definition 

message: Ziji, I noticed you're working on Emotional Affair and other articles on the subject and you suggested merging that article into Infidelity, how is your stance on this now? I saw you placed and removed Emotional Affair's merge tag, and you're now looking how to place articles such as Office Romance etc. Either case, Infidelity is the subject that contains the core of this subject: a breach of connection between two parties, other articles such as Emotional Affair, Office Romance etc., rather are various ways of "interpreting" that core (for example a physical or emotional breach, or both). Henceforth, what'd you think about merging anyway, or at least keeping a to the point core, apart from interpretations (for example in subdivisions). All the information concerning the core problem is divided over different articles about the same subject, either case. How would you see it?thedarkestclear Talk 16:45, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi darkestclear. I am still of the view that the core (and separate) articles are Infidelity and Adultery. The rest are as you say, variations. I have made Office romance more in the org psych/sex harrassment realm and that may not merge so well into Infidelity. But the rest definitely belong here. Do you have the time for the merge and tidy up job?--Ziji  (talk email) 00:28, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ziji, I agree with your view and I do have the time to have a look on it. Step one is to take out all definitions of one subject out of other articles that use these definitions reversedly ("let's first say what it is NOT", or "infidelity is the opposite of fidelity, and fidelity is......"), put them to the right subject and work on from there.thedarkestclear Talk 09:52, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I will help along those lines as I get some time into July. I will keep in touch here--Ziji  (talk email) 10:34, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge 

message: I have made a number of small and larger edits to the page after some time being away from the page. I would like to add a new section about children conceived in or witnesses to an affair. And perhaps a little more about the recent changes to Family LAw in Australia, that introduces a new risk to extramarital affairs of 2 or more years duration - that is that they may be considered defacto by the court. Children conceived in an affair may apply to the court for assistance--Ziji  (talk email) 07:04, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent edits 

message: This article violates policy in many ways.  Just to concentrate on lack of support, the first sentence begins: "Infidelity is any violation of the mutually agreed-upon rules or boundaries of a relationship..."  This un-footnoted statement is not only controversial but poorly written.  (As written, it means that if I have agreed to clean up the dishes each Tuesday dinner but fail to, I have committed infidelity.)
The second paragraph begins "There are two types of infidelity:  sexual and emotional."  This blanket statement also has no footnote.  But it's controversial:  if you ask ten people for a definition of infidelity, I'll bet the majority respond by referring only to sexual infidelity.  The largest area of disagreement would probably be in the definition of sexual infidelity.
Under "Different Types of Infidelity" the third sentence reads:  "There are five types of infidelity."  The footnoted source is the personal opinion of one Cathy Meyer; moreover, Ms. Meyer is misquoted.  What she actually says is, "Below is a list of reasons for infidelity."  She makes no claim that there are not, say, twenty-nine reasons for infidelity, or for that matter six billion.  In any case she is no Kuebler-Ross.
A glance at the footnotes shows that most sources fall into the categories of personal opinion or journalism; only two (from the Mayo Clinic public website) appear even vaguely academic. In sum, this article is a string of unsupported personal opinions and should either be completely rewritten or deleted.C. Cerf (talk) 15:16, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Marvelous comment, put a wry smile on my face, please edit the article to clarify those issues and by all means, nominate it for deletion. It would be a relief not to have to watch this page.--Ziji  (talk email) 23:01, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unsupported assertions 

message: I have removed the following from the main article because its subject matter is divorce not infidelity.
== Infidelity in the U.S. Military ==
The divorce rate among soldiers increased in 2007 as military marriages suffered continuing stress from America's two . An estimated 10,200 failed marriages in the active duty Army and 3,077 among Marines were recorded in the budget year that ended September 30.
That is a divorce rate of 3.5 per cent among more than 287,000 married troops in the Army, up from 3.3 per cent in the previous financial year, according to Defense Department figures. "With increasing demands placed on Army families and soldiers, including frequent deployments and relocations, intimate relationships are tested," said Army spokesman Paul Boyce.  The New Zealand Herald: Military marriages suffer >. The spouses left behind also find it difficult to be separated from the military member while he or she is deployed and seek comfort; emotionally, intimately, and physically. --Ziji  (talk email) 22:28, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  US Military 

message: In the "Incidence of Infidelity" section, there is a dubious, uncited assertion:
"Gay men are more likely than lesbians to commit sexual infidelity. Study by Blumstein and Schwartz (1983) showed that 82% of gay male couples reported having nonmonogamous relationships, while lesbian couples reported 28%."
Their description of the Blumstein and Schwartz study would suggest that gay men have more nonmonogamous relationships than lesbians, not more (sexual or non-sexual) infidelity.  Somebody should check this (now dated) study and either re-word or delete this part from the article.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.204.220.250 (talk) 10:04, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gay male (sexual) infidelity? 

message: I'm deleting the bit about how the arts are rampant with egotistical adulterers and so forth, which appears to be a thinly veiled rant from someone who was cheated on by an opera singer. The only source in the whole thing, entitled "examples of operatic characters and infidelity", was just a link to some opera singer's (presumably the one who did the cheating) web page.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by UtPhysics149 (talk • contribs) 15:57, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Good catch. --McGeddon (talk) 16:06, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Operatic characters 

message: The Wikipedia manual of style suggests that the title of the article should be the subject of the first sentence. The recent edit of that intro paragraph does not follow this guideline. I think the recent edit may have solved some problems with the old lead, but I think we should attempt to adjust it to be in accord with project standards. Jojalozzo 22:41, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Introductory sentence 

message: The link to the german page is misleading, the page there describes infidelity as a punishable crime and not infidelity in relationships.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.82.102.98 (talk) 12:54, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link to German page 

message: Defense Mechanisms to Prevent Infidelity = Original research. 
This article is the most POV and biased article I've come across on Wikipedia.  It must be ignored by the experienced editors because a rewrite is in order!178.25.213.210 (talk) 13:48, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Defense Mechanisms to Prevent Infidelity 

message: I do not think that the repeated use of "cheating" is appropriate in an encyclopedia, as it is judgemental and tabloid. It is also inappropriate for situations in which deceit is not involved. I suggest that it be replaced with neutral language.93.96.148.42 (talk) 23:57, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Use of POV language

message: I'm proposing to remove the first two sentences in the "Incidendce of Infidelity" subsection. The sentences read: 
"Some researchers say there's a 50–50 chance today that one partner will have an affair during a marriage including non-physical relationships.[1] It is estimated that roughly 30 to 60% of all married individuals (in the United States) will engage in infidelity at some point during their marriage.[3]"
In fact, the first sentence incorrectly cites from a USA Today article. In that article, there is no mention of "50-50 chance that one partner will have an affair".  The article does cite research establishing that:
"Rates among older women tripled from 5% in 1991 to 15% in 2006; rates among men rose from 20% to 28%. About 20% of younger men and 15% of younger women say they cheated, up from about 15% and 12%, respectively."
As for the second sentence, the citation referenced is from a private website "Truth in Deception". Not an appropriate primary or secondary source. Further, this sentence conflicts with the first citation from USA Today and its referencing of the published research.
If editors agree, I will remove the two proposed sentences. Thank youRonsword (talk) 16:39, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I support removing those statements but there are reliable sources that discuss rates for infidelity so it deserves mention. A blog on Psychology Today's web site says University of Chicago's General Social Survey consistently reports "12 percent of men, 7 percent of women" admit having an affair in their periodic surveys. Jojalozzo 17:34, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with replacing the above sentences with the U of Chicago data you cite. However, the initial misquote ("50-50 chance" of extramarital affair) was from a USA Today article (see 1st reference) which also cites the U of Chicago General Social Survey; according to that USA article, rates of infidelity were 15% female and 28% male. Suggestions?Ronsword (talk) 20:05, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The GSS cumulative (1972-2010) results are as follows: 75.4% of the respondents were married and 13.4% of those had sex with someone other than their spouse during marriage. That gives us an infidelity rate of 18%. The link for these results is: http://sda.berkeley.edu/sdasearch/?study=gss10&query=evstray http://sda.berkeley.edu/sdasearch/?study=gss10&query=evstray] (EVSTRAY is the GSS variable name for this question). In any individual year we'd get different results (and it seems the rate is increasing) which can explain the various results reported in the press. I propose we go with the cumulative numbers (with the primary GSS source) since they will be more stable but we could also mention that the rate is increasing using any of the many news articles to support it. Jojalozzo 01:15, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The link doesn't work for me...it only shows a page with a question on it; the 'view' link doesn't work either. Any other links to the actual study you cite? Like to give it a look over.Ronsword (talk) 22:27, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Try the "Go" link to run the search for evstray variable results. My starting point for working with GSS is: http://www3.norc.org/gss+website/ http://www3.norc.org/gss+website/. Jojalozzo 22:33, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

text: Sorry for getting back so late. Yea, I agree with including the data from the GSS survey you cite (12% male/7% female) as it sounds like a reliable source. For additional consideration: I'd like to also possibly include two more divergent and reliable studies (to highlight the sometimes variability/difficulty in acquiring reliable date): the Atkin's study from the U of Washington, Seattle (as cited in US Today) found a slightly higher rate for older and younger populations, while the National Marriage Project, University of Maryland, found a slightly decreasing rate, in general. So, we can cite the GSS stats as one of the more reliable core studies, but then, perhaps, include a brief description of how there may be slight divergences in the data, with some studies showing slightly higher infidelity rates (possibly so in older/younger populations), but other studies showing possibly decreasing rates? Ronsword (talk) 20:11, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Correction: National Marriage Project - University of Virginia :-) Ronsword (talk) 20:16, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, I'm going to go ahead an make the change, as no one has added or challenged the data presented above since discussion started one month ago.Ronsword (talk) 16:09, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Incidence of Infidelity

message: I removed a section that appeared to be an editor's opinion rather than the opinion of the sources. It has the markings of a copy-paste job from an external document. I am pasting the content here in case it has value:
:Marriage is a very common thing in today’s society. It is estimated that 85% of American adults will get married (Campbell and Wright 329). Along with the high rate of marriages, studies have shown that 97% of Americans see cheating as morally wrong (Campbell and Wright 333). The belief that marriages should last forever and remain monogamous has been around since marriages first began (Campbell and Wright 331). With this being said, why have studies shown that over 50% of men and women will cheat on their spouse (Major 60)? American’s beliefs do not match the way they act. Laws against adultery have been around for over 200 years, but are no longer regularly enforced (Turley). These laws should be enforced. Adultery can cause great harm to both spouses and any children involved. It is an act that can harm people emotionally. When the cheating becomes known to a spouse, it can cause feelings of worthlessness, fear, sadness, and despair (Marano 68). Children will eventually feel these same effects as the marriage falls apart and they find out the truth. If laws are enforced to protect the population, why shouldn’t the pain caused by adultery be punishable? 
:Resources: 
:Campbell, Kelly and David W. Wright. “Marriage Today: Exploring the Incongruence between Americans’ Beliefs and Practices.” Journal of Comparative Family Studies 41.3 (2010): 329-345. EBSCOdatabase. Web. 1 Apr. 2013. http://ehis.ebscohost.com.ezproxy.aclin.org:2048/eds/pdfviewer/pdfviewer?sid=4ed8f818-f561-4085-9570-17a0443acb53%40sessionmgr15&vid=2&hid=107
:Major, Ish. “Why Do They Cheat and Lie?.” USA Today Magazine 139.2788 (2011): 60-62. EBSCOdatabase. Web. 26 Mar. 2013. http://ehis.ebscohost.com.ezproxy.aclin.org:2048/eds/pdfviewer/pdfviewer?sid=d63ecdb8-0fe4-4dc6-b005-576342543bf4%40sessionmgr12&vid=8&hid=4
:Marano, Hara Estroff. “From Promise to Promiscuity.” Psychology 45.4 (2012): 60-69. EBSCOdatabase. Web. 25 Mar. 2013. http://ehis.ebscohost.com.ezproxy.aclin.org:2048/eds/pdfviewer/pdfviewer?sid=d63ecdb8-0fe4-4dc6-b005-576342543bf4%40sessionmgr12&vid=6&hid=4
:Turley, Jonathan. “Adultery, in Many States, is Still a Crime.”  USA Today. 2010. Web. 2 Apr. 2013. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/2010-04-26-column26_ST_N.htm
Jojalozzo 22:46, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Legality opinion 

message: The intro is a citation - albeit it a definition - taken from one author, followed by another sentence taken from another author. And to call it "a subjective feeling" is so out off the mark, I can't believe it has been left to stand. Infidelity is not a feeling. In some legislatures, it is even a crime, in many it has legal status (grounds for divorce; grounds for disowning/ disinhering a spouse). It is not a feeling. Rui Gabriel Correia (talk) 10:29, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Non-WP intro 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Netorare. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so.  Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 17:12, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Netorare listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Jaime ellis. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 May 9#Jaime ellis until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  - CHAMPION (talk) (contributions) (logs)  11:08, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Jaime ellis" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: Polyamory and swinging don't belong in this article. They are no more related to infidelity than a section on monogamy, or being single, or asexual. These are relationship styles/preferences/identities. Associating them with infidelity is offensive to members of those communities and to me personally (I am polyamorous).
In fact, the incidence of infidelity in monogamous relationships is higher than in ethical non-monogamous relationships so maybe that should be included instead?
Cataniaj (talk) 11:33, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Polyamory (and swinging) should be removed