Talk:Anti-Federalism

message: what do you think about Thomas Jefferson strengthened the Anti-federalist platform during his time as President?
: I think that the Anti-Federalist movement was a decade dead and gone when Jefferson was President. — DLJessup 13:29, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: A lot of classical historians would agree with you. But Jefferson was Anti-Federalist to the bone... right up until the moment he became president. He fought the Federalists on a populist but social-libertarian platform. How more Anti-Federalist can you get? I think most historians agree that he either heavily compromised or lost sight of his goals when he became president. Fearwig 05:11, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  President Jefferson and the Anti-Federalist Platform 

message: I motion that this be turned into a disambiguation page, or that it simply provide a disambiguation link to Hamilton's "Anti-Federalist" / "Anti-Administration" party. That has its own article already, and rightfully so. This article should also be renamed to correspond to the Federalist counterpart ("Federalist Party (United States)"). There is a big logical difference between anti-federalism and the Anti-Federalist party, and that needs to be enunciated. Fearwig 05:11, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Disambiguation

message: I've considered all discussion on this article and used my own understanding of early U.S. political history to make today's changes.  If anyone objects to this feel free to change them back. I felt that the heading "Anti-Federalism in the Early 19th Century" was completely misleading, as it seemed to refer to the political conflicts of Washington's (and to some extent J. Adams's) administrations.  I changed some language concerning the agendas of the two proto-parties that seems to me to come from the 1911 EB; this probably needs sourcing, which I'll try to provide soon.  In any event it's no more poorly supported than what was there already. Again, I'm sorry if these unilateral changes are offensive to anyone, but I think the article either needed removal or some basic surgery (maybe it still does).User:jperrlylsu
72.219.10.130 (talk) 01:27, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Changes Dec. 30 2007

message: According to one of my college professors and the readings for his class, the Anti-Federalists were actually true Federalists because they advocated a system where the states delegated certain powers to the Federal Government and reserved all other powers to themselves and that the Federalists were really nationalists that wanted an all-powerful central government.  The Federalists simply usurped the title Federalist for themselves and labeled the "true Federalists" Anti-Federalists.  Shouldn't this arguement be menntioned somewhere?  Emperor001 (talk) 13:55, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: No; that's revisionism at its silliest, completely reversing the actual historical meanings of these terms. At the time under discussion, these were the terms used universally by both the Federalists and their opponents. --Orange Mike  |  Talk 19:09, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it is not revision at its siliest.  I am reading an introduction to the Federalist Papers right now and even it admits that the term Federalism referred to a "leaguing together, as under treaties" and that the Articles of Confederation was a true federal form of government while the Constitution was more of a centralizing document (though my professor admits that the Constitution is a cross between a centralized and federal state).  The introduction goes on to say, "Yet the advocates of a stronger national government at the joint (federal) level commandeered the term, leaving the defenders of the old system to become antifederalists."  It then mentions how Elbridge Gerry of Massachusts who disliked being called an Anti-Federalist stated that the correct terms should be Ratifiers and Anti-Ratifiers, or has he preferred "Rats and Anti-Rats."  Emperor001 (talk) 03:33, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: All I meant by my comment was that the anti-ratification faction lost the propaganda war over who were the "real" Federalists back in the 1790s, and that to revisit this semantic scuffle over two centuries later is more than pointless. See also :etymological fallacy. --Orange Mike  |  Talk 21:49, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: But still isn't it worth mentioning that the Anti-Federalists were at one point deemed to be the true federalist since the term federalism described the government they supported?  Emperor001 (talk) 03:44, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Only if you've got solid sources, and only as a minor footnote in the history of their movement - a half-sentence or full sentence, at best. The modern-day "Tea Party" may deem themselves the heirs of Sam Adams; that doesn't mean that any actual historians would agree with their theory. --Orange Mike  |  Talk 16:07, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Just added a reference to this in the into of the article (couldn't figure out where a good place to put it under history would be.  My sources are:  the introduction to the "Federalist Papers" by Garry Wills, my U.S. Constitution and Legal History Professor, and the articles he gave us by scholars named Dry, Wood, Ellis, McDonald, and Kenyon.  I don't have time to look for the specific references in those three sources, but I've already given the quotation from the Garry Wills piece.  Emperor001 (talk) 04:12, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Real Federalists

message: There is quite a bit of opposition (at least here in England) to the possibility of the EU becoming a full federation.
Don't know if this would be considered "Anti-Federalism" in the sense described on this page as the opposition is mainly against the merging of culture & sovereignity rather than the system itself.
Anonymous, 19:12 BST 18 October 2010  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.237.185.36 (talk) 18:13, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Nope; it's completely irrelevant to the subject of this article, and belongs instead in an article like Euroskepticism. --Orange Mike  |  Talk 19:09, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: European Union

message: I removed the first paragraph of the article lead which suggested that this article was about the concept of anti-federalism in general.  However the entire rest of the article only discusses the specific group of Anti-Federalists that arose in opposition to the ratification of the U.S. Constitution. This group played a very significant role in the history of the era (with implications that carry forward to this day) and merit their own article.
As far as I know, this is the only anti-federalism that played a significant part in U.S. History. If there is some GENERAL political theory of anti-federalism, then it belongs in its own article, not this one. Tom (North Shoreman) (talk) 23:54, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Scope of the article

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Added two sentences at the end of paragraph 4 to clarify that these authors did not write their works as a group, instead publishing as individuals. Included citation for Cornell, Saul. (1999). The Other Founders: Anti-Federalism and the Dissenting Tradition in America, 1788-1828. University North Carolina Press. pp 22-24. CGJohnston21 (talk) 01:13, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit to history section 

message: — Assignment last updated by Neuscholar (talk) 04:54, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: Political Science Research Methods POLS 2399

message: Since there are now sources for all of the bullet points under the main beliefs section, I propose removing the article template on this section that states “this section needs additional citations for verification.”  Neuscholar (talk) 21:39, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removing the citation's needed template