Talk:David Trimble

message: I think it is relevant for balance reasons to point out that Trimble was one of just 2 1975 Convention members (out of a possible 13) who backed Vanguard leader Bill Craig when the latter suggested voluntary power sharing with the SDLP as the previous version of the article implies that his career then was marked solely by a reluctance to share power with Nationalists. Valenciano 17:46, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Vanguard

message: The first line of the article "The Right Honourable William David Trimble..." is he still "right honouable" after losing his westminster seat? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.12.245.194 (talk • contribs) 23:13, 8 February 2006  (UTC)
:Yes. That derives from being a member of the Privy Council. He would only cease to be Right Honourable if he resigned from the PC. Timrollpickering 23:18, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thought I read in the Paisley article that the "Rt Hon" and the "PC" are mutually exclusive? Sauce for the goose, etc! Jonathan3 00:21, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not quite. Peers are automaticaly always "Rt Hon" (I think) so "PC" is used to denote a peer who is a member of the Privy Council. However for non peers "Rt Hon" does the job. Using both is like using "Dr So and So PhD" - overkill. Timrollpickering 09:58, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Title

message: The UUP have begun  to refer to David Trimble as "Lord Trimble" in correspondance, this is now what he is known as! The art. should mention this in the first line! (Couter-revolutionary 17:47, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: How nice for him. However, until he is actually created a peer he can't use the title, and I haven't seen any official source for his ennoblement. Choosing what title he wants is not the same as being given it. Proteus (Talk) 17:57, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

text: BBC say hes a Lord. Been saying it since 19 May See Real IRA death threats link here. Fluffy999 00:18, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Wrong. All the media reportage (BBC News, Irish Times, UTV, etc) makes it explicitly clear he is Baron Trimble of Lisnagarvey. FearÉIREANN\(caint) 18:54, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Since when have the media been a reliable source as to correct titles? Especially with territorial designations, which they're always wrongly including    . The House of Lords   says it's "Baron Trimble", as do both the reliable peerage creation websites   — what more do you want? Proteus (Talk) 21:21, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

text: It's not unknown for peers to get their titles wrong. Lady Kennedy of the Shaws calls herself (and is often called in the media and by private organisations) "Baroness Helena Kennedy". Some other life peers have called themselves "Lord Firstname Surname" when it should just be "Lord Surname" (the former is the style for younger sons of Dukes and Marquesses). Timrollpickering 23:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Quite right, except that it's "Lord Title" rather than "surname". The title could include "of Somewhere" if that's part of the title (unlike Lord Trimble's). Alternatively, the title could be after a place name, for example Lord Bilston. JRawle (Talk) 13:58, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Hmm, quite an interesting claim to accuse other people of not knowing much then citing the BBC as though that's an official source for the correct citation of titles. The Times above correctly quotes from the London Gazette which is the official source. The BBC is not official or that accurate with titles so stop reverting on that basis. If it floats your boat you can watch his introduction to hear details. The first section is the citation of the title with its territorial designation, the second his actual title.  skip to time 16:45 for title. He then swears in under his title David, Lord Trimble. If you still doubt it then view mondays introductions and compare Trimbles introduction with Baron Taylor of Holbeach of South Holland in the County of Lincolnshire. Note that "Baron Taylor of Holbeach" is given both in the citation with territorial designation (of South Holland in the County of Lincolnshire) and in the second instance of the title proper. He then swares in under his title John, Lord Taylor of Holbeach  Alci12 00:22, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Especally interesting to cite the BBC after criticising them for making "elementary mistakes" just above! JRawle (Talk) 13:58, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

text: And, as if there were any doubt remaining, the announcement in the London Gazette : "BARON TRIMBLE, of Lisnagarvey in the County of Antrim". Proteus (Talk) 15:57, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

text: The opening line William David Trimble, Baron Trimble is correct. JRawle (Talk) 14:12, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Lord?

message: I previously amended "defect" to "join" in describing Trimble's move to the Tories. I'm not going to start an edit war over it, but I suggest there is something slightly misleading about the use of the term "defection" since it is more usually applied to a serving public official or elected representative shifting allegiances in spite of earlier pledges (such as crossing the floor of the Commons in mid-parliament).  Trimble, no longer a party leader or holding any office within the UUP, is quite free to change his political allegiance; additionally, the UUP and the Conservatives have been largely sympathetic, so it's not a defection of any significance across the political spectrum.
I just thought it might be useful to solicit some views and see if we can reach a general agreement on which term should be used. Peeper 10:03, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would have no problems with using "join" or "switch" instead. --Kwekubo 11:06, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You seem to think "defecting" implies a negative, clandestine, action.  I think it merely accurately describes the factual occurance.--Counter-revolutionary 11:37, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: The Compact Oxford English Dictionary definition of defect is to "abandon one’s country or cause in favour of an opposing one." That seems to me to be entirely accurate and informative in this case. But as I indicated above I would personally be happy with any of defect, join or switch. --Kwekubo 11:57, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Turns out that Traditional Unionist has made an amendment to "to leave the UUP and join the national Conservative Party", which seems more explicatory and accurate enough to me too. Are we there yet? :)Peeper 12:52, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Do you think Sylvia Hermon will welcome him if he goes campaigning in North Down at the next general election? Surely, when he's joined a party that puts up candidates against the UUP, it must be seen as a defection.  --Cavrdg 21:01, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Defecting" to the Conservative Party? 

message: Per the official announcement in the London Gazette 
, Trimble is Baron Trimble, of Lisnagarvey in the County of Antrim He was so described earlier but his title description was changed with a non working link to House of Commons website by someone without discussion.
I have reverted the caption on his picture accordingly.
194.46.252.120 00:43, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "of Lisnagarvey in the County of Antrim" is the territorial description, not part of the formal title. His title is just "Baron Trimble" in the same way Margaret Thatcher is "Baroness Thatcher" not "Baroness Thatcher, of Kesteven in the County of Lincolnshire". Timrollpickering 07:04, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

text: The Gazette is the announcement of creation but that it not the style. This point has been gone through umpteen times. Timrollpickering 02:09, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Trimble's title is what was published in London Gazette. It must be so cited in an encyclopedic article, which will be historically accurate. If Baron Trimble wants to be called Lord Homer Simpson Trimble among his peers (no pun), that is OK, but it does not redefine his assigned title to other than that propagated in the official announcement in the London Gazette. His designation in the article must reflect reality.
00:25, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The title in the info box should be the standard title style which is the title and does not include the territorial description - note that Thatcher's says "The Rt Hon. the Baroness Thatcher" without "of Kesteven". That's because her title is "Baroness Thatcher", no more. In the same way Trimble's title is "Baron Trimble", no more. To show how stupid writing on the territorial description is, consider James Molyneaux's title+territorial description - would anyone seriously double up "of Killead" in an info box or captions?! Timrollpickering 00:31, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  User Counter-revolutionary is incorrectly reinstating Trimble's title. Trimble is described in the article, per the official promulgation in London Gazette, as Baron Trimble. This is the title that must appear over his picture.
194.46.232.81 (talk) 02:26, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You're just embarrassing yourself now!  I'm not denying Baron is what's on the letters patent, but the style is always Lord; in writing and in conversation.  --Counter-revolutionary (talk) 10:53, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trimble's correct designation 

message: According to WP:NCROY lords who are primarily known by their ordinary name should have this as the title of their article, this often applies to politicians who only received a title after they retired.  There could be an argument that his title is useful for disambiguation, but he is clearly the primary meaning over the US politician, so this does not apply.  The article should be moved to "David Trimble". PatGallacher (talk) 23:33, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Support in this instance, by analogy with Peter Mandelson. Was mostly active - and won the Nobel prize - under his former name. JRawle (Talk) 23:51, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Title of article 

message: David Trimble, Baron Trimble →  — He carried out most of his political activity before he got the title, so it should not be used, see WP:NCROY and Talk:Catherine Ashton. PatGallacher (talk) 22:34, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Moved as per the speedy request. The Helpful One 18:50, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 

message: This article has been revised as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement. (See the investigation subpage) Earlier text must not be restored, unless it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. Diannaa (talk) 21:33, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible copyright problem 

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