Talk:SS Andrea Doria/Archive 1

message: The image has a questionable copyright issue. Could someone please confirm if it is indeed fair use and change the tag accordingly? Pentawing 01:25, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, I found the source of the wreck image and it definitely has a copyright. However, I cannot find the exact source of the wreath image. If someone knows its source, please note it in the image description. Pentawing 23:36, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Found the source of the wreath image and noted the reason for fair use. Pentawing 00:57, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Images

message: Why is the gross tonnage of the ship mentioned twice in the first two paragraphs? I understand it is useful in a one-paragraph summary, as well as with the fuller specifications, but maybe could we vary things up a little? Perhaps "the gross tonnage of the ship equaled 29,100", or something more creative and clever? Just a thought. Congrats on the FA status.
-Sunglasses at night
20:35, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gross tonnage 

message: I added a star to the Hebrew interwiki link because the article is featured there. It's a good-quality translation of this article. It doesn't have additional information though (in case anyone wonders why I added, then removed, template FAOL on this page). --Hoziron 02:59, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hebrew-language version 

message: You are right. In fact the officer who commanded the Swedish ship at the moment of the clash was only 26 years old. He had few experience and didn't understand the radar signals. He was usually helped by three sailors, who absented themselves before the impact. The Swedish ship rammed the Italian ship and a tragedy took place. But the blame was put on the Italian captain and his officers. Today the truth about this old tragedy, that shows how false the affirmation of the Swedish officers were, has been proved by many nautical experts, government bureaucrats, maritime admiralty lawyers and even the same US Navy (Alive on the Andrea Doria, a book written by Pierette Domenica Simpson, 2006) 
Jul-23-2006. 12.15 p.m.
:Yes, it has been proven, also by American studies, that the disaster's fault was entirely on the Swedish ship. Still, I see that the article casts doubts on the Andrea Doria's safety. And - go figure - the sources cited on this are Swedish. For the record, the Andrea Doria took 11 long hours to sink, despite suffering a hull damage about four times what was considered, by safety standards, the most damage a ship of her size should endure without sinking. That's how "unsafe" the ship was. I think each and every claim coming from Swedish sources should be removed from the article. I won't do it myself, because I know that - being Italian - I would be accused of not having a neutral point of view. But I do hope somebody who actually knows the facts will set the article straight.--88.149.232.81 08:13, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Si, si, it was proven. All was swedish fault. If the logbook of the Andrea Doria would be examinated, it would be clear. But, unfortunately, since the captain only had 11 long hours before the ship sank, he could not save the logbook.62.247.4.34 (talk) 16:22, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  He didn't understand the signals 

message: A caption in this article refers to the Andrea Doria as "considered by some the best preserved shipwreck in history" and the article itself mentions the "relatively good condition of the wreck."    This is in direct conflict with this authoritative blog entry which states:
:Although Titanic is deteriorating while subjected to the natural force of the Atlantic Ocean, it has been preserved relatively well throughout the past ninety-three years. More recent shipwrecks, like the ill-fated Italian luxury liner Andrea Doria which sank in 1956, is in much worse shape structurally than Titanic. The Doria lies in 240 feet of water about 40 miles southwest of Nantucket Island. The relatively shallow depths, strong currents, aluminum-alloy- based superstructure and weather conditions have battered the Doria to the point where the top five deck levels have fallen down to the bottom of the ocean. With its entire superstructure gone, the Doria is now a huge steel hull with all of its once-beautiful infrastructure lying next to it on its starboard side in a vast heap of metallic wreckage.
So I'm confused.  Is it in good condition, or isn't it? -Etoile 16:31, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Everything I have ever read about the ship as a wreck diving site has indicated that it has suffered serious and progressive deterioration. --Legis (talk - contribs) 02:40, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

text: All recent reports agree that the wreck has deteriorated significantly. This needs to be reflected in the main article with appropriate attribution. Jetlife2 (talk) 12:18, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

text: I realized the current condition of the wreck is covered well already at the end of the paragraph. I edited the beginning to say "the initially good condition....". Now it reads better, and it is clear that the wreck was in good condition but is no longer. While I was in there I expanded on the description of why it is a difficult dive. Jetlife2 (talk) 16:29, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quality of the wreck 

message: My source is a documentary by "Ulisse" aired this evening on Rai Tre (Italy).
The first-class lounge is shown, using virutal reality, to have a wall, sized around 41m by 3m (height) containing one huge painting by an Italian painter (I do not recall the name unfortunately), featuring Ancient Greece scenaria, and is said to have been the inspiration for coining the SS Andrea Doria as "a ship designed around a painting".
I have not added this since I presently do not have the time to search a source online to cross-check and use as reference. I confide someone else will :)
└ VodkaJazz / talk ┐ 21:06, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Designed around a painting 

message: Poseidon01 00:55, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Radar screen 

message: I recall the opening of a Clive Cussler book opening with the crash of the Andrea Doria- I don't remember which book. I don't suppose it counts as a reference but it was an interesting read if I recall (read it long ago). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Btrotter (talk • contribs) 05:26, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  cussler book 

message: Should anything be added in pop culture about the Seinfeld episode in which George loses an apartment to a survivor of the Andrea Doria? OddibeKerfeld (talk) 14:14, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Hardly relevant for this article. --Denniss (talk) 16:03, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's actually already mentioned under References#Online and Film - more than a bit odd, it's hardly a reference for the article, is it? On a more general point of view I'd agree with Denniss that it isn't really relevant from the point of view of this article. -- Kjet (talk · contribs) 16:35, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Seinfeld and George Costanza

message: :Image:Andrea Doria poster.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 04:21, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Andrea Doria poster.jpg

message: Reports of another death on the Doria today - will update the article once reliable confirmation of details are published. --Legis (talk - contribs) 19:59, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: July 2008 death

message: This is the liner that Lara Croft explores in a level from Tomb Raider 2 on the Playstation. Like most young people, I didn't realise it was actually a real ship.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.136.207.135 (talk) 07:59, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tomb Raider 2 

message: There should be an explanation of where the ship got its name. And the admiral probably deserves his own Wikipedia entry. I've just noted that Italian Wikipedia has a lengthy article about him. The English version should be shorter, of course. Ishboyfay (talk) 22:42, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, I'm suggesting unneeded changes. Both the info and link are already there in the article. Ishboyfay (talk) 19:33, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Andrea Doria the admiral 

message: “The navigation rules required speed to be reduced during periods of limited visibility to a stopping distance within half the distance of visibility.” [is no rule in the book that says this], only that speed must not exceed that safe for the conditions (indeed the rules actually say that under the conditions Andria Doria and Stockholm were operating under, they should have come full-stop with only maneuvering speed on). ¿Where does this claim that they could proceed at a speed that permitted stopping within half the distance of visibility come from?174.25.121.131 (talk) 22:47, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Aftermath; Litigation and determination of fault: 1956–57; Findings

message: Over the course of the last year since the fog bell was found, there have been several edits to the facts of that event.  Most facts have been set straight, but, of note, the information regarding the discovery of the artifact versus the recovery of it is being reverted to an incorrect statement.  The bell was discovered/located by one diver, Carl Bayer.  One of the boat mates, Ernie Rookey, was then called over and assisted with recovery.  The cited article (and hundreds of others) supports this set of facts. It is corrected as of this writing.Trukdiver (talk) 02:42, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discovery of the Fog Bell 

message: I disagree with this edit that has the statement, "This accident remains the worst maritime disaster to occur in United States waters since the sinking of the S.S. Eastland in 1915." The Andrea Doria lost 46/51 people. It pales in comparison with SS Sultana in the 1800s. Saying something is the greatest disaster since some greater disaster puts an odd spin on the comparison. We could say the 1975 wreck of SS Edmund Fitzgerald was the greatest disaster since something else. The comparison does not belong in the lead. The actual statement is unsourced; the two references are to bolster a claim that the wreck was in US waters rather than high seas, and that requires reading US waters as US EEZ within 200 miles.  US waters are 12 miles offshore. See also territorial waters. The US waters statement is synthesis. There is no source for a statement about AD being greatest disaster in US waters since X. The AD is a famous disaster, but not the greatest on any reasonable scale. The edit should be reverted. Glrx (talk) 19:26, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Greatest disaster since earlier distaster 

message: The article reads: "Stockholm Third Officer Carstens-Johannsen misinterpreted radar data and badly overestimated the distance between the two ships. The poor design of the radar settings, coupled with unlighted range settings and a darkened bridge, makes this scenario possible."
As far as I know, "blackout" bridge at night is a must on all ships. If there is any light on the bridge it limits the ability of the crew to see out of the bridge and may also reflect in the bridge glass and be misinterpreted. BadaBoom (talk) 04:24, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Darkened bridge 

message: The IPA pronunciation and the phonetic  "an-DRAY-a" give afterwards do not agree with each other. The IPA implies Andrea to rhyme with 'sangria', while the phonetic spelling implies a rhyme with 'man player'.
Which is correct?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.27.85.248 (talk) 19:30, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation? 

message: Denniss has rather brusquely removed my added reference to the Steely Dan song "Things I Miss the Most" (Everything Must Go), in which the pathetic protagonist says: "I'm learning how to meditate / So far so good / I'm carving the Andrea Doria / Out of balsa wood."  This is declared "Trivia not related to the real ship."
I'm not sure what definitions of "real" and "related" are being posited here.  An imaginary character in the song refers to a carved model of a particular ship with a particular place in late-Twentieth-Century history. If that's too many removes from the hunk of iron presently on the seabed, why does the page include a reference to Seinfeld?
One person's cultural reference is another person's trivia, I suppose.  Many Wikipedia pages on "real" things and people include lists of references from popular culture.  (Try Amelia Earhart or Empire State Building or USS Enterprise (CVN-65).) Such lists are a way of tracking the influence of the actual on the imaginative—part of the tissue of which a culture is made.
Village Explainer (talk) 00:18, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Good point. The character in the song is obviously meditating while building a model of the SS Andrea Doria out of balsa wood. A model of the ship has everything to do with the real ship.TH1980 (talk) 02:51, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Steely Dan reference 

message: Way too much detail especially about the MV Stockholm
This article is too detailed and difficult to understand. When reading about the collision with the Stockholm it goes into detail about the why the Stockholm was built with fewer cabins so as to compete on declining transatlantic trade by being more luxurious. Nice but this should be on the other ships page.
in casualties, there is no list of passenegers killed just paragraphs of info like a story book with their backgrounds and whole life stories.78.147.134.176 (talk) 08:21, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Criticism