Talk:Zune/Archive 5

message: I reworded this; the comment that a future patch might fix this is irrelevant crystal gazing, as the cricitism is of the Zune as it exists and future patches might do almost anything. It now reads:
*"The Zune only speaks English;" i.e. the Zune as launched lacks native language support (NLS) or handling unicode metadata found in file container formats that support this feature
The reason I marked it as needing a citation is: is this, in fact, something for which the Zune has been widely criticized? It hasn't even been released in Europe, has it? Does this become a serious issue before then?
This section isn't really fair but can be remove since I see nothing in history that points out that Microsoft releases dual language support on any of it's products... even in my Windows.  Microsoft probably hires local translators and advertisers and packagers in international regions to take care of this problem in their products for native tongue.Getonyourfeet 23:39, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The question isn't whether or not it's fair, the question is whether or not the Zune has been widely criticized for this. Dpbsmith (talk) 23:55, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Again, the question is: has the Zune been widely criticized for this? No source is cited. Who is criticizing the Zune for this? If a gaming publication wishes to criticize the Zune for this, fine. Dpbsmith (talk) 23:55, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Two criticisms: are they really widely held? 

message: An editor is removing mention of brand names from the criticism section. In many cases this makes the criticism meaningless or pointless. 
For example, the reason why the Zune is criticized for being incompatible with PlaysForSure is precisely because PlaysForSure is Microsoft's own technology: Microsoft has betrayed customers and business partners that bought into Microsoft's last music venture. 
Similarly, criticism of Microsoft for not having hard drive capability is meaningless unless it is pointed out that other players do have this criticism and it makes the criticism clearer to name the specific products that do. 
Neutrality does not mean that brand names cannot be mentioned, and neutrality does not mean that opinions cannot be expressed in clear language. Dpbsmith (talk) 01:29, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The fact that Microsoft makes both the Zune and the PlaysForSure DRM is highly relevant to the criticism. The people doing the criticizing specifically make the point that they should work together because they come from the same company. 68.219.6.124 04:14, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is important to note that PlaysForSure is Microsoft's invention, and that it is incompatible with Microsoft's own MP3 product, the Zune.  That is a major criticism.  --MPD T / C 04:29, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Correct. Also, like everything in this section, this should also be sourced: at least one specific critic, preferably a well-known one, should be cited as saying this. The existing source (which for some reason is given twice... I'll fix that...) isn't as clear as it might be. Dpbsmith (talk) 13:02, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

text: Good. Thanks. Dpbsmith (talk) 13:00, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Indiscriminate removal of brand names from "criticism" section

message: Originally this criticism had references in quotes.  If you take content from someone please put it in quotes or it is plagiarism, or stealing.
Songs wirelessly transferred from one Zune to another can only be played three times. While this is understandable for a protected song for which the recipient has not paid, this limitation is applied even if the song was purchased through the Zune store and the recipient has paid for a Zune Pass.[37] It is also applied even for material that is self-recorded, or copyright-free and unprotected by DRM. After three days, the song expires regardless of whether or not it has been played. Just playing half the song (or one minute, whichever comes first) counts as one "play." A song cannot be re-sent to the same device, nor can a song received from someone else be passed on to a third person. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Getonyourfeet (talk • contribs) 05:58, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Quotations necessary?

message: Someone may want to remove the following bit of vandalism at the bottom of this section of the article: 'also, the zune tends to be horribly horrible on a horrible level.'.  While this may or may not be true, it should be removed.  I tried to edit the section, but for some reason that statement did not appear on the edit page, and therefore I was unable to delete it. SJM          1 February 2007
By the way, very untrue. Think about it, Zune has a tuner, plays more codecs, and looks nicer (frankly). Downside: doesn't work on select Windows XP OS's, doesn't play all video codecs. 74.12.217.44 06:31, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Zune vs. Apple Challenge 

message: I'm removing this pending someone's supplying a published source:
:There were also 100 Zunes made for Zune Ambasadors which were etched with artwork that read "antiantisocial" on the back of the unit.
Seems mysteriously pointless, enough so to make me wonder whether it's accurate.
Dpbsmith (talk) 11:56, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I suspect this is the missing reference?  It doesn't support the previous write-up (they would read "Ambassador", and be be based upon the antiantisocial artwork), but it does clarify the existing Zune Ambassadors text. Preppy 18:19, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you think it's worthwhile, reinsert it in an accurate form with that source. Dpbsmith (talk) 00:21, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Antiantisocial?

message: I'm removing this because no published source for this rumor is cited. Dpbsmith (talk) 00:20, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Zune phone

message: Do you think the Zune contributes to Vendor lock-in?  Would it help to have a category identifying :Category:Non-interoperable systems?  The issue is being voted on, please contribute your vote / opinion:  here. Pgr94 23:33, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vendor lock-in? 

message: I heard that 'Zune' was Hebrew for 'Intercourse'. Can anyone confirm this rumour? It would be an interesting addition...--24.15.165.14 08:14, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rumours and Speculation 

message: This page should link to 3-day-or-3-play, a page devoted to the Zune's DRM. 00:19, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link to Zune DRM page 

message: Warrens' edit removed information and did not replace it elsewhere in the article. 
 Its Wi-Fi communication allows limited sharing of songs, recordings, playlists and pictures with other Zunes up to 30 feet away. Images may be transferred from one Zune to another without restriction. But songs expire after three plays or three days, whichever comes first, unless purchased or downloaded from the Zune Marketplace online store. Recipients cannot re-send music or audio files, but can save the names of expired songs for later purchase. Many songs downloaded from the Zune Marketplace cannot be shared: the ones record companies flag as non-distributable.http://www.Zune.net/en-us/support/howto/ZunetoZune/sharesongs.htm
 Zune uses a new digital rights management system — Windows Media DRM (WMDRM) — that is incompatible with other DRM systems. This system includes the Zune Marketplace and a PC client called Zune Software. Zune does not support Audible.com's audiobooks and container format. It uses Media Transfer Protocol (MTP); however, its proprietary MTP extensions place an interoperability barrier between the Zune and previous MTP-based software and services.
I thought the info worked well in the intro; regardless, it belongs in the article. I will restore it unless otherwise convinced. PRRfan 18:58, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree most of this information is very useful to those interested in the device.  They are very intrinsic and outstanding properties of the Zune. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Getonyourfeet (talk • contribs) 19:15, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Removal of info from intro

message: I have to say this, this article has turned into an absolute mess. The intro jumps from a description of the machine, to its history, to its features, and then back again. The sections following are mostly point form, and include all sorts of uninteresting details. The vast majority of this information can be found elsewhere and is going to change if they ever come out with a new version. The wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a MS "features and capabilities" web page, try to keep this in mind! Maury 12:44, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not only is this article a complete mess for all the reasons you mentioned, it also displays a clear anti-Zune bias. It's absolutely brimming with criticisms of the Zune (some valid, many not significant at all) and includes very little about the positive sides of this media player. I own both a Zune and an iPod and both are good in their own way. From reading this article, however, an uninformed person would get the impression that the Zune is a complete piece of crap. An encyclopedia's purpose is to inform, not to serve as a mechanism for Apple fanboys to perpetrate their own personal biases against a competing company. 75.33.136.166 07:08, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  You should create an account (though not required), put this article on your Watchlist, and see if you can improve it. Rstandefer 19:40, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, that would be ideal, wouldn't it? Unfortunately, at this point the article is in such a terrible state that I would pretty much have to rewrite the entire thing, which I don't have time to do. Besides, I'm not convinced that would even help. All the Apple fanboys would very rapidly muck it up again anyway. I'll consider it if this article ever gets locked, but until then, trying to improve it would merely be an exercise in frustration. 75.33.136.166 05:19, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Valid points, but then again, you could request it be protected after you complete the new version. Rstandefer 20:19, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Terrible article 

message: Wikipedia is not a new site, and there's no rush to "scoop" anyone. This material is not officially from Microsoft, and the date isn't even firm. It should go back in the article when the firmware is actually released. Dpbsmith (talk) 01:21, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Hold details about update 1.3 until it is actually released

message: If people feel this link is appropriate, then someone other than User:Zachdms, User:Ceasarisok, or Microsoft employee should make this contribution.  Cesarisok is maybe 'CesarIsOK' lawl in his blog.  He is a marketing employee of zune team.  Wikipedia suggest that people with conflict of interest suggest info though talk pages and indepenent users contribute.  WP:COI, WP:COI#Self-promotion   
*  - Official Zune Blog
Getonyourfeet 02:32, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Conflict of interest

message: There must be some indication of current sales and sales trends... is it picking up, holding steady, or declining? Dpbsmith (talk) 17:29, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Current sales?

message: For years prior to Microsoft releasing their "Zune" product line, there has already been software under the name "Zune". It's a MUI (Magic User Interface) clone for AmigaOS and AROS. It's also developed and maintained by AROS. http://aros.sourceforge.net/documentation/developers/zune-application-development.php 24.254.187.237 01:02, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: well make a disambig page then... do it like Bill gates lawl Getonyourfeet 01:39, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Well it doesn't matter... from Wikipedia:Disambiguation#Disambiguation_pages ... it says when you type in a textual string in the search function and click go what are people going to expect... not the less notable GUI project Zune (by AROS) because it doesn't have the notability...  Well guys just arguing over the matter isn't gonna help... just go recreate... restore... the page and create a new disambiguation link...  It's like the iPhone situation... Cisco already legally had the trademark first but most people today know today that the iPhone is more notable and associated by Apple not Cisco's product. Getonyourfeet 02:57, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  MS gets original billing for the name Zune? And no disambiguation page?