Talk:William Potts (inventor)

message: AT A GLANCE:
Police Officer William L. Potts of Detroit, Michigan, decided to do something about the problem caused by the ever increasing number of automobiles on the streets. What he had in mind was figuring out a way to adapt railroad signals for street use. Potts used red, amber, and green railroad lights and about thirty-seven dollars worth of wire and electrical controls to make the world’s first 4-way three color traffic light. It was installed in 1920 on the corner of Woodward and Michigan Avenues in Detroit. Within a year, Detroit had installed a total of fifteen of the new automatic lights.
  THE STORY
RELATED INFO
BOOKS
WEB SITES
DID YOU KNOW? 
Invention: Traffic Light  
 
Function: noun / trsffic signal / stoplight 
Definition: A road signal for directing vehicular traffic by means of colored lights, typically red for stop, green for go, and yellow for proceed with caution.  
Patent: As a government emplyee Potts could not patent his invention. 
 
Inventor: William L. Potts  
 
Criteria: First practical. Modern prototype. 
Birth: Unknown 
Death: Unknown 
Nationality: Unknown 
 
Milestones:
 
http://www.ideafinder.com/history/inventions/trafficlight.htm
An issue is finding primary-source material. Although this link correctly identifies Mr. Potts as inventing the modern traffic signal, it also includes the Garret Morgan myth. Clearly the 'everybody invented it' approach is a compromise.Ryoung122 23:43, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: I'm going to try to identify Mr. Pott's birth and death dates. One such possibility is 1886-1967 (candidate from the SSDI):
Name: William Potts 
SSN: 377-09-6569  
Last Residence: 48215  Detroit, Wayne, Michigan, United States of America 
Born: 28 May 1885 
Died: 1 Jul 1967 
State (Year) SSN issued: Michigan (Before 1951 ) 
 
 
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Source Citation: Number: 377-09-6569;Issue State: Michigan;Issue Date: Before 1951.
I noticed that several sources cite his name as William L. Potts.
There is only one William L. Potts listed in the Detroit area in the 1920 census; his age is given as '36' (suggesting birth around 1884).Ryoung122 00:25, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Biographical Detail

message: Portions of this article rely on this website.  However, this appears to fail Wikipedia's standard for reliable sources.  Specifically, this appears to be some sort of self-published website.  If anyone can find a better source, that would be great!  Rklawton 19:43, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Great, so it shouldn't be a problem to remove the self-published source as redundant.  Rklawton 22:56, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That doesn't make sense. Wikipedia forbids 'original research,' NOT 'self-published material.' Self-published material may be used if it appears to be reliable. This appears to be THE definitive article on the subject. Why waste everyone's time expecting to go through and re-list all the references he cited, only without the coherent arguments? That doesn't make sense.Ryoung122 22:59, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Source problem

message: The 'historical revisionism' paragraph needs reworking, because it's actually just an opinion as to why Garrett Morgan is often cited, versus William Potts.  Reading the one citation in the paragraph, it's clear to me that there are many people who the invention could be attributed to -- and picking William Potts seems no less arbitrary than picking Garret Morgan, which this article does by using the passive voice in the first sentence ('is credited with').  Based on reading the article for Garrett Morgan it seems to me one could say that his system was the first that could be operated "at a distance."  
There are many different things about Morgan and Potts, as well as their inventions, and the claim that it's somehow related to affirmative action is an opinion, and not a fact. Bugg42 (talk) 17:43, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The above comment is way off-base. It should seem clear to anyone that Garret Morgan's invention not only came after Mr. Potts', but it was NOT the form that was adopted for general use, either. Let's take a look at what Morgan's invention looked like:
http://www33.brinkster.com/iiiii/trfclt/
Potts traffic light
William Potts' 1920 invention
†
Garrett Morgan's 1922 invention
"Although many prefer to think that the signal on the right formed the basis for modern traffic control systems, the less inspiring reality is that the traffic light had already evolved into its familiar red-yellow-green form before Garrett Morgan came along with his T-shaped semaphore. Technologically, the Morgan device was more dead end than prototype: its crank-driven design did not lend itself to the automation and interconnection that was already happening with the fully electrical signals of the same era."
Sadly, Wikipedia does not copy/paste images. It it did, it would be clear to see that Pott's invention contained the core basics of the modern signal design, including:
--three colors (red, green, yellow)
--lights to display the colors
--signals in four directions
--lights in a single direction organized vertically (green, yellow, red)
Morgan's invention did NOT have ANY of these features. It was more like a railroad crossing arm. Also, if you bothered to do a little research, you would find that the origin of the "Garret Morgan invented the traffic signal" myth began in Afro-centric literature, which was adopted by the U.S. Dept of Education in the 1970s as part of a policy of promoting African-American inventors for Black History month. Thus, everything that I said was FACT, not opinion.
Finally, I realize that other inventions, such as "the Wright brothers invented the airplane" are even bigger myths (ever heard of Gustave Whitehead)? and promoted for political reasons:
The Wright Brothers and the Smithsonian did not always have a good relationship. After Wilbur's death in
Wright 1903 Flyer
The Wright 1903 Flyer in the Arts &
Industries Building, c. 1950s
1912, Orville became passionate about defending the Wright Brothers standing as inventors of the airplane. When Smithsonian officials displayed one of Secretary Langley's "Aerodromes," as Langley called his airplanes, with the label stating that Langley had constructed a machine “capable” of flight before the Wright Brothers successful flight, Orville was not happy. Because of this, in 1925, he loaned the Wright 1903 Flyer to the London Science Museum, promising that it would not return to the United States until the Smithsonian renounced its claim. It is not until 1944 that Smithsonian Secretary Charles G. Abbot and Orville Wright came to terms. The Wright 1903 Flyer was placed on display in the Smithsonian's Arts and Industries Building on December 17, 1948. 
http://siarchives.si.edu/history/exhibits/documents/wright.htm
So, the Wright brothers' claim became "established" only in 1948, and only as part of a deal to get the airplane to the Smithsonian.
Yet we now live in the computer age. Real facts, not political fiction, are verifiable. It's documented fact that the 1903 Wright flyer flew only with the aid of wind, and the 2003 replica failed to get off the ground. 
But that's only the biggest inventor myth of all time. We're talking about here an affirmative-action myth that has even less shreds of credibility than the above nonsense.
Ryoung122 03:51, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV issues and like of citation with 'historical revisionism' paragraph 

message: Where did the death date come from? I found evidence that Mr. Potts was alive in 1947; that doesn't mean he died that year. Did someone simply change "fl. 1947" to "died 1947"? I'll wait to see if any sources come up before reverting.Ryoung122 03:55, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Death date