Wikipedia talk:In the news/Archive 14

message: * There is a current hostage situation at NASA, with one hostage killed.  Fortunia 22:25, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Def. worth an add in the future, but the article in question hasn't been touched yet. The Tom 04:01, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Peta, thanks for the heads-up, but both your suggestions above are premature. Please only make suggestions here when the candidates are ready for inclusion. You may want to re-read the criteria. --Monotonehell 15:11, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am entirely aware of the criteria; and I think it is useful to notify people watching this page (updating admins and news editors) that news will be forthcoming (within hours) so that people can keep and eye out and update articles; in the case of elections updates can be made as soon as the information is available. --Peta 01:42, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed it is a useful and good idea to have a heads up, but perhaps it would be better on Template talk:In the news until it's ready, otherwise all you get is a load of editors complaining that it's not suitable. This page should probably be reserved for Prêt-à-Porter candidates. Otherwise it will become a tad messy? --Monotonehell 10:00, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  More 'heads up' can be found at Portal:Current events. Upcoming elections are listed there, too. --PFHLai 04:48, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yeah, the current events portals seem to be out of the ITN loop these days. :( --Monotonehell 05:01, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Heads up on some possible items to watch 

message: Is the ITN section going to be serious all day long? :-) Carcharoth 00:09, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Didn't you see the overlinking ? :-)  --PFHLai 04:45, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  No funnies here yet? 

message: Isn't the David Hicks blurb a little overlinked?
Australian Guantanamo Bay detainee David Hicks receives the first sentence from the Guantanamo military commission, and the first conviction in a U.S. war crimes trial since World War II.
"List of firsts" (twice), "United States" , "trial", and probably "sentence (law)" and "conviction" are a bit much.  Not to mention Hicks isn't mentioned in the "List of firsts".
Cigarette 19:47, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe it was done for April Fools. :-) --PFHLai 04:45, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Now, see, that's not funny. The "funny or obscure but true" stuff worked better, in my opinon. Carcharoth 09:32, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  When things like '129', 'years' and the percentage sign were wikified on April Fools' Day, it gotta be a prank. Someone must have thought that turning every word blue was funny.... BTW, I didn't do it. -- PFHLai 23:46, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: David Hicks

message: I'm getting ready to swap out items for DYK and I notice there's only 3 news items here. Any plans to include any more after midnight UTC? I ask because right now there's only room for 3 DYK items which is pretty low for that section. howcheng  {chat} 23:49, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe there's enough room for DYK now. But we'll probably need more for tomorrow, as the FA for April 3 is really long. --PFHLai 04:45, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Only 3 items? 

message: :Blnguyen makes a good point (and has made it before - yes teacher I have been paying attention ;) ) There's records in sports like athletics which are broken incrementally as a matter of fact. They probably shouldn't be included as the weather analogy would apply there. (Weather, like sports results and entertainment news, is made all the time. We only include major weather events in ITN that have a widespread or devastating notable impact. The same should apply to these other categories).
:Although slightly subjective; "Fluke" events generally form part of "sports weather". For example, a sunny day in the middle of winter. But a career length achievement or the final result of the ultimate level competition (an average rise in temperature over a number of years) is something that has a greater holistic impact on the subject. 
:This of course would have to be backed up with a high quality article, stating the background that lead up to this recognition and documenting the achievement itself. --Monotonehell 04:17, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: IMHO, individual records on team sports should rarely, if ever, appear on ITN. On a team sport, the main point is to win for your team, if your team scores 5 TDs and you still lose, it doesn't matter. I'd say post it on ITN if they break or tie the all-time record (like if Kobe scores 101). Now for individual records in individual events, more often than not, if you break a record in a competition, you'd win. --Howard the Duck 14:34, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's still an individual all time record though in a team sport. So I think the only sports record that should have a chance as an exception for the ITN is for carrier/year long records which would have to be a big/notable record in the sport.--ThugChildz 18:29, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: (another edit break because I don't like scrolling)

message: Seeing as Viktor Yushchenko's item has fallen down to third, perhaps the image could be changed to this available free one of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad?--Fyre2387 (talk • contribs) 03:35, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done.  —David Levy 03:59, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Done a second time, with . --PFHLai 09:33, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Reverted to .  turns out to be a copyvio. --PFHLai 09:48, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture change suggestion 

message: On April 14th the United States Olympic Committee will announce whether Chicago, IL or Los Angeles, CA will be the United States nominee to host the 2016 Summer Olympics.  I imagine this will be a newsworthy event.  Can you tell me how to contribute to the  phrasing of such a story.  If Chicago wins, I would like the following articles to be included in the description Chicago 2016 Olympic bid and Washington Park (Chicago park). Please respond to my talk page. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 18:53, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The page for suggestions is located at Wikipedia:In the news section on the Main Page/Candidates (or WP:ITN/C). However, I must warn you of the criteria, located at the top of that page. I don't really believe this would make it to ITN because it's not of international significance. On the other hand, when the IOC chooses the 2016 host (a few years away), that would be noteworthy. -- tariqabjotu 19:05, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is certainly not just a Chicago story.  It is among the www.cnn.com lead stories. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 21:55, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  United States Olympic Bid 

message: Please, update ITN with a new free picture (the wreck has been there for more than a week...).Bondkaka 18:31, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone posted one of Recep Tayyip Erdoğan a couple of hours ago. How about that? Zzyzx11 (Talk) 23:11, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moved from candidates page 

message: The main page blurb calls it  "The deadliest incident in U.S. history" ignoring the 100 to 140 civilians shot to death by civilians in the Mountain Meadows massacre. Please change it to something more objective like "one of the deadliest." Edison 06:40, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for pointing this out. I ain't sure if the Mormon militia would be considered 'civilian' enough, since they were armed and somewhat organized. I've removed the words "The deadliest civilian shooting incident in U.S. history" from MainPage, anyway. --PFHLai 06:58, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: However, it is the deadliest US school shooting ever, by final death toll (32 students plus one gunman). —Vanderdecken∴ ∫ξφ 09:23, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

text: When was the last time you heard of someone killing 30 people in a university? That's why this should be on ITN, especially now that the article is well-developed. --Howard the Duck 10:13, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think there is any dispute it belongs on ITN. Nil Einne 12:28, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Several editors above disagree with you.  Of course, if it had ever happened in any other country, it would certainly belong here, but because it happened in the US, it's unimportant.  Corvus cornix 22:03, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Mm, keep in mind a lot of knee-jerk comments get made in the first few hours before the whole story comes in. The above doesn't reflect everyone's continued opinion ;v) . Potatoswatter 04:51, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

text: There is one person I can count who potentially think it shouldn't be on ITN from the above discussions. Several people have suggested it was premature (either because of the state of the article or because the significance wasn't clear at the time or both). Most of these people had clarified their views before you posted. Potatoswatter hadn't previously, but he/she has now. One person, who hasn't continued discussion hardly counts as a dispute IMHO. Is there some discussion I'm missing? Nil Einne 07:33, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The deadliest civilian shooting?

message: It looks jarring to have the picture of Băsescu right next to, and appearing to illustrate, an item about Boris Yeltsin. Yes, I know that it says "(pictured)" further down the list, but the reader doesn't see that at first glance. Can the Băsescu picture please be moved down to align with his news item?  Or, if the image in ITN really must be at the top, can another picture about one of the top items be used instead? --mglg(talk)
:This, and solutions for it, have been brought up time and time again. But for many reasons consensus for change can never be reached. --Monotonehell 19:27, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  The ITN template is not only used on MainPage. Moving the image around means messing up these other pages. --PFHLai 06:32, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I absolutely agree that it is confusing to have the first bullet not match the picture. Why can't a picture of Yeltsin be used? Cheers. --MZMcBride 19:52, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  It took a while to find a 'free' pic of Yeltsin. We can't post any pic we like on MainPage, you know. To suggest pictures in future, please go to WP:ITN/C. Thanks. --PFHLai 06:32, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Text/image alignment 

message: It's one of the biggest discoveries of the century and it doesn't even get mentioned on the main page.... wow.... Zazaban 02:07, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ITN instructions are at the top of this page and you don't read and follow them.... wow.... --74.13.128.93 04:11, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  What 74.13.128.93 is trying to suggest is that you could have added it to Wikipedia:In the news section on the Main Page/Candidates. Thue | talk 08:40, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I have added it. Thue | talk 08:40, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Biggest discovery of the century?? People, do not buy into the hype!! This planet is thought to be within the "habitable zone" of its parent star. No life was found. nor are any other details about its composition are known. Calm down, and put the facts into ITN, please. Awolf002 11:41, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The planet itself hasn't even been found. Its existence has been calculated/deduced from velocity measurements of the mother star. AecisBrievenbus 11:46, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: so? it is still notable as the first such discovery. There will probably scores of similar ones over the next few years, this isn't the "discovery of the century", but it is a notable sign that measurment precision has crossed the threshold to detecting earth sized planets. dab (𒁳) 14:06, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Planetary habitability is a much stronger page than habitable zone and we should be linking to our best. I'm not quite getting you on implying space colonization. Marskell 12:49, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shouldn't Gliese 581 c be listed in current events? 

message: (moved from candidates' page)
:Regarding the euro article on the Main Page. Why is this even here? For one, it was not even discussed upon, leading me to believe that it may be the result of an overzealous admin. Second of all, the articles linked to do not contain substantial info about the record event (if you can point out where this new info is I might just concede). Third, is this really of serious international importance? I know economically it might be somewhat notable, but compared to other major events should it be included? Just because we are lacking in financial ITN items doesn't make it have overwhelming importance. Finally and MOST IMPORTANTLY, won't the value of the euro fluctuate so that it will reach new records again? Should we update for ITN every time this happens? What makes NOW an appropriate time to post in ITN? I apologize if I come off the wrong way, but there is no discussion on this issue and I am somewhat befuddled. If an admin can give me appropriate responses to my concerns then I will understand. Thanks again. The great kawa 20:40, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I fully support featuring the Euro article on ITN today. It's an excellent article, very informative, and it makes for a refreshing change from all the election results, disasters, accidents  and politics related articles usually dominating ITN. No, it shouldn't be there every time a new record is broken, but once in a while featuring one of our good articles on current topics for a change is good and I for one applaud user:JIP for adding it. Shanes 20:59, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Given the euro news, I've got to ask (sorry I'm new to this): is the Dow reaching 13000 worth a mention here?  It's a record high, too, with a strong psychological meaning as proof that the market has recovered from the dot-com bust.  And it's obviously just a number subject to fluctuation, but 13000 is a much more obvious milestone to people than 1.3649.  I'm no financial expert, but I know this has been getting a lot of play in the financial news in the US and has international impact.Krong 21:08, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In my humble (or something) opinion, the Dow reaching an important milestone could be listed, but not now with the Euro up there. Two economics/index articles of this kind would be too much on the same ITN, or even in the same week. Maybe next time. Shanes 21:15, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I agree.  I don't think it is notable or newsworthy enough to be on this "top six" list.  Andrwsc 21:13, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, I removed this just before I saw this discussion. The Euro article needs more information on this, and second of all, it doesn't seem to be that significant since it is something that could easily happen again. Nishkid64 (talk) 21:20, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Fourthed. The Dow broke 13,000 today. Should we be adding that as well? I think not—two second business news sound bites are not what we're here for. Marskell 21:23, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Heh, I was about to mention that, but I thought it would be pointy. Nishkid64 (talk) 21:25, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: To add one other point: astronomical discoveries and updates are something Wiki does very very well. A discovery is announced and we'll have a page in, literally, less than an hour; a glob of editors will pick up on it and can thrash out a good page in a day. The role of ITN has always been debatable to me because we're not a news service. At the very least it should play to our strengths, so why not leave Gliese 581 c up at the top for at least 24. Marskell 21:34, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Because we're not about to start making arbitrary decisions about what ITN entries are "more important" than others. I agree with you on the role of ITN, but the practice is to add entries chronologically and then to let them fall off the bottom of the list organically. Any other practice will lead to endless discussions (there's probably two of them above, on the candidates' page or on talk main page) over what entry takes precedence over others. :/ --Monotonehell 01:42, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not suggesting it shouldn't follow the usual pattern and be moved down and off like others. But we can and should discuss precedence in placing things on to begin with. It's not an importance issue, but a question of Wiki's utility. No one concerned with the value of the dollar or the Dow is going to turn to Wikipedia as a source given that you can find to-the-minute updates elsewhere on the web; and I would suggest that the "follow-this-link" value of euro and US dollar would be relatively low on ITN. Gliese 581 c, by contast, has had hundreds of edits in a day-and-a-half, is generating attention on related articles (judging from my watchlist), and is already at the top of google. We should give priority to ITN items that will create activity of this sort. Marskell 09:33, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry I misunderstood what you meant by "...so why not leave Gliese 581 c up at the top for at least 24" I thought you were proposing that it be held at the top of the list artificially or taken out of the list artificially after 24 hours. If you're only saying that things like currency rates, sports results and daily weather shouldn't be inserted at all, then you're spot on there. Only major -economic, -sports and -weather events are considered when notable and supported by the existence of quality wikipedia article on the event. --Monotonehell 10:22, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Euro, dollar exchange rate entry should be removed 

message: Can someone please put the trophy in the picture? and change the sentence to-
*Australia complete World Cup treble defeating Sri Lanka in 2007 Cricket World Cup (trophy pictured) final.
--THUGCHILDz 07:51, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, I meant to mention this on ITN/C and I forgot. I'm skeptical of the licence used at Flickr. The Flickr-user (caribbeancricket) has a few other pics in his (her?) album that appear to be copyvio's to me (screenshots, logo, and some pics labelled as "Official Photo"), so I decided to avoid using any pics from this user on MainPage. --PFHLai 16:39, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, looking at this album I would say that it's can fairly trusted that it's his picture. The few others that appear to be copyvio's, are probably just to show his viewers what's going on or what he's talking about which is common for flickr users and I don't think he's saying those are his pictures anyway. So I think it's a reliable source. So in the future it, it should be used. :) --THUGCHILDz 02:10, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Quick changes needed

message: Is announcing a general election in Ireland really notable enough for ITN? As the article itself states, "Current legislation requires that the Dáil be dissolved within five years after its first meeting (6 June 2002) following the previous election..." This is common procedure, there is no political crisis. Holding the general elections should be mentioned, winning the general elections should be mentioned, but announcing? AecisBrievenbus 17:45, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is an expected procedural move with little significance. I'd support its removal from ITN now and we should put it back after the vote tallying. --PFHLai 16:27, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's hardle a busy news week if you can suggest something more important then by all means remove it but until then i dont see the point (Gnevin 21:59, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

text: This and the recent inclusion of the French primary are both against normal practice. But as Gnevin said, suitable candidates have been slow to surface recently. --Monotonehell 23:34, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I've displaced this for now with a line about Ivica Račan's death. --PFHLai 04:47, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Election in Ireland