Talk:First Italo-Ethiopian War

message: Menelik clearly wanted peace.  His restraint was not guile but a genuine revulsion for war.  But this story makes it some cunning guile instead a genuine avoidance of killing.  The article clearly ignores the actual conflation in the number of combatants on the Ethiopian side and makes it extremely (unrealistically) small on the Italian side.  Yes there were only 18,000 white soldiers but there were also the Native troops that accompanied the Italians from Eritrea and the area recruited Banda.  So the Italian numbers were closer to 30,000.  The Ethiopian had 118,000 if you counted every man woman and child in their camp.  But not everyone of those was a combatant and of all combatants perhaps no more than 50,000(at the very generous) were armed with guns.  Lastly a running tally of those with actual experience and expertise with weaponry will show that the Army's of the Princes and Kings were mainly militarised minute men, who were normally farmers.  Even their regular forces while adept horsemen and infantrymen in their own right were mostly used to hand to hand combat with their long spears and Shotel rather than shot and lead.  Even the elite of the elite, the Malefya Temenja, Wiha Sinku, Feres Zebegna and Household Guards of the Imperial Mehal Sefari were unacquainted with the trench tactics and "fields of fire" maneuvers Europeans had pioneered.  But Menelik's commanders reformed and surged even after the killing of their bravest commander Imperial Fitawrari Gebeyehu.  The Italians themselves recorded his brave feat charging the guns to reverse the tide of the stagnating battle of the Army of the Center.  
All-in-all this piece and others seriously, very seriously, lack balance.  It seems having lost the battle where it counts the Italians, or their sympathisers are re-fighting it on these pages and trying to cast the battle in terms that show their as an unfavorable one.  Question is, if they were so unfavorably matched what were they doing there to begin with.  
History, and more importantly truth, is smart.  It does not judge by color or anything else.  Wikipedia, and the pages of magazines and books can turn pitch black from the amount of ink put on them as thick as molasses.  All that ink will show that the Ethiopians, with odds stacked extremely against them snatched a victory from absolute certain defeat that not just Italy but all Europe had prepared to exploit.
Bruhtam (talk) 02:51, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Where does one start ? 

message: Why is this called the Italo-Abyssinian War and not the Italo-Ethiopian war? Abyssinia has never actually been Ethiopia's name; it was only known to the west as Abyssinia during various times. For example, French writing about Ethiopia during the 15th or 16th century (I don't remember exactly when) use the word Ethiopié. Furthermore, in the 4th century CE, in the royal Chronicles of Ezana (the ruler of the Ethiopian Axumite empire at the time), he mentions his dominion over a people called "Habashat" (today Habesha, used to mean Ethiopians or Ethiopians and Eritreans) in the Ge'ez (main Ethiopian language of the time) and South Arabian, but instead calls the "Habashat" Aethiopia (or something to that effect) in Greek (the text was written in all three languages). Clearly, Ethiopia has been the name that the west has known Ethiopia as for most of history, "Abyssinia" being short-lived and relatively recent.
Now, how can I request that this article as well as Abyssinian Crisis and Second Italo-Abyssinian War be moved to more correct article names using Ethiopia instead?
Yom 03:49, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Can it be made clear why Italy felt it had justification to conquer and control Ethiopia? Did they use the same justifications that are made today (i.e., that the Western nation is actually "helping" or "liberating" the African nation, and assisting it to "be more free")? Actual sources giving the justification presented to the Italian public and to the world during that period would be very helpful and beneficial. Badagnani (talk) 22:58, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Then these links should be dropped into "See also". Further, the information can be condensed and added to the lede. Kortoso (talk) 18:30, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Justification 

message: The article states that a minimum of 5,000 Italians were killed in the entire war, however the "Battle of Adwa" one has written that 7,000 were killed in this particular battle alone. -- 91.11.242.236 (talk) 11:48, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Italian Casualties Inconsistency  

message: A number of edits have been made in the last year to this article and that dealing with the Battle of Adwa concerning the purported role of Imperial Russia in the Ethiopian victory over the Italians. These claim the provision of artillery manned by Russian gunners, the presence of Russian officers whose advice played a significant part in the victory, Russian political support for their Ethiopian allies, the arrival of a Russian Red Cross mission and the participation of 50 Russian volunteers in the battle. Unfortunately the sources cited are either in Russian or, if translated, do not support the claimed scale of such involvement beyond the presence of a single Cossack officer as an observer. English language sources, which admittedly may be biased or incomplete, make no reference at all to Czarist involvment beyond the sale of rifles by both Russia and Italy to Ethiopia before the outbreak of war. Can anyone assist in clarifying the extent and nature of any Russian presence?   
− Buistr (talk) 04:54, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Was it a Russo-Ethiopian victory? 

message: Why is this war called the First Italo-Ethiopian War when the second one is called the Second Italo-Abyssinian War?--The Emperor's New Spy (talk) 02:32, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Names 

message: According to most historical records, the Russians were helping by treating wounded fighters and perhaps shipment of arms. Yes, Leontev has been advising the Emperor in different matters and he may had some advice concerning the war. Beside that, Russians have not been present in the war front advising the emperor on war strategy. Therefore this article has to be corrected as it is against the well known historical facts known so far. Ethiopians defeated colonialism, being the only Black and African nation in history to do so on white or European army. 
The writer equated Leontev with the Emperor, labeling both of them commanders. This too has to be corrected as this is against all the established facts. The writer has tried to alter the exact nature of the war. My last suggestion for it is to be rewritten.
Lastly, this article is just another case in point that Wikipedia can not be a credible source of information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elyaad (talk • contribs) 12:04, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Russian roles exaggerated  

message: Is there any reason why the start date of this war is listed as 1895? According to Armies of the Adowa Campaign 1896: The Italian Disaster in Ethiopia by Sean McLachlan, the rebellion led by Batha Agos (Bahta Hagos) against Italian forces in the Tigré (Tigray) region began on December 15, 1894 (page 9). There was even a battle in 1894 (at Halai) in which 11 Italians were killed and 22 wounded (also page 9). Even this Wikipedia article recognizes that the Agos' (Hagos') rebellion began in December 1894. So, what I'm trying to say is: should the start date of the First Italo-Ethiopian War be changed to 1894? BDR77777 (talk) 17:12, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Start date 

message: "The casualty rate suffered by Italian forces at the Battle of Adwa was greater than any other major European battle of the 19th century, beyond even the Napoleonic Era's infamous Waterloo and Eylau.[20"
Just clicking on the links to Waterloo and Eylau, each battle had a higher casualty number than this First Italo-Abysinnian war/battle.  
:  First off, you need to sign your posts.  It is not "casualty number", but "casualty rate".  Those are two different numbers.   Number is the amount of causalities.  Rate is the ratio of casualties per amount of troops you have.   The book reference (page 164) does say the casualty rate for Adwa was 50%, while the worst Napolionic battle was 33%.  At Adwa, that means for every two troops on the Italian side, one was a casualty.  At Eylau, for every three troops, one was a casualty. Bgwhite (talk) 21:36, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Exaggerated Casualty Rate comparison claims 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Some of the claims here about the Emperor Menelik smack of propaganda. It is true that Menelik was a strong leader, but this claim that he was a direct descendant of King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba is taking too seriously some of the propaganda made by the Ethiopian emperors. It is true that since the 11th century AD that is what successive Ethiopian emperors have been claiming, but that does not make it true. Outside of Ethiopia, this claim that King Solomon had a love child with the Queen of Sheba way back in the 9th BC when she made her visit to Jerusalem that the Bible mentions and all of the emperors of Ethiopia are descendants of this union is generally not accepted. If one wants to write that most Ethiopians believed the Emperor Menelik was a descendant of King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba (why doesn't she even have a name?), then that is OK. At present, the section on Menelik needs to be rewritten to bring into conformity with what is generally accepted by historians about Ethiopia. --A.S. Brown (talk) 04:12, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Propaganda?

message: The title of the page is "First Italo-Ethiopian War". However, this was not the first war between Italy and Ethiopia, as the first was the Italo-Ethiopian War of 1887–1889, so the title has no sense. I think that it can be changed in Italo-Ethiopian War of 1894-96 or Abyssinian War, while the Second Italo-Ethiopian War in Italo-Ethiopian War of 1935-36 or Ethiopian War. Does anyone have opinions? DavideVeloria88 (talk) 15:53, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: There was no war understood with the Ethiopian empire and in the Italian historiography it is highlighted, the negus Yohannes IV chose to go to war against the Egyptians and Sudanese mahdists because Oreste Barattieri was not yet ready to climb the plateau, the voice Italo- The Ethiopian War of 1887–1889 he created is confusing and goes that title changed to Eritrea War--Frederick Herman Anderson (talk) 03:13, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong title 

message: Change: 98.50.110.32 (talk) 21:37, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. RudolfRed (talk) 22:34, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 16 April 2022 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: @Caffeinate Mac your sources for Italian deaths in this war are all over the place. First of all you said that Ethiopia had two sources as well which would justify your edit. However Ethiopia in 1896 and Italy in 1896 are two different countries, Italy was a industrial European country that kept records about the amount of casualties they took in all of their wars if you look at the infobox for most Italian wars around the same time Austro-Prussian War and Italo-Turkish War you’ll notice that there is no varying estimates thus instead of using two sources that estimate we should find a reliable figure. محرر البوق (talk) 17:48, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Check out these sources.  and  and . The most problem estimate is 11,000 deaths including 4,000 Italians. The rest being askari محرر البوق (talk) 18:22, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Italian deaths 

message: Please read  pg 40. The French did not send weapons to Ethiopia during the First Italo Ethiopian War, the reason why they used French weapons was because they were able to acquire them from arm dealers as early as the 1870s, they also acquired German, British and even Italian guns aswell. from 1885-1897 the French government had not established ties with Menelik.(same source)  It was only after the battle of adwa that the French established ties with Menelik . The only thing the French did during this war was allow the Russians (their ally) cross into Ethiopia through their colony of Djibouti, "Layers of Time by Paul Henze" (pg168). Although Henze does not mention any other action by the French during the conflict. @Cinderella157, I'd like to know your thoughts on this? محرر البوق (talk) 00:50, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: , to what specifically in the article does this relate that you would change. I would like that context please. Cinderella157 (talk) 23:23, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I already changed it. Removed France from the "supported by" infobox. Also removed some mentions of France in article due to WP:SYNTH as the sources never stated that France supported Ethiopia during the war aswell. I remember I removed France from the infobox a while ago, but someone reverted it back hence I started a talk page to discuss my reasons. محرر البوق (talk) 11:14, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I will watch to see if there is dispute. Cinderella157 (talk) 12:17, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  French support