Talk:List of universities and higher education colleges in London

message: I have cut this from Major Universities because
- criteria for Major Universities is inclusion in the Guardian ranking [if you cna find a better one, let me know]
- It's not even called the University of London Distance Learning Programme
- The Link to # University of London Distance Learning Programme is to a non-existing page.
--DuncanBCS 09:40, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  University of London Distance Learning Programme 

message: Why is LMU 'refused ranking' ?? --218.111.48.207 14:30, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: LMU refuses to take part in such rankings. Scroll down at  --Duncan 08:56, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  London Metropolitan University objects to ranking

message: DuncanBCS has changed the number back to 28, suggesting that we should count the colleges of the University of London as one institution.  I am rather dubious about this figure because what we are counting is not very clear.  If we were only counting 'Universities' then that would be one thing, but if we are counting 'colleges' too (and the page says that we are) then all of the University of London institutions are technically individual Colleges of the University of London, and to most intents and purposes are individual institutions under a blanket authority rather than really one gigantic institution.  If we are counting 'Universities and Colleges' then the University of London is one University, but many Colleges.  What do we do about this?  We should at least make it clear.
In addition to this, outside the University of London, what sort of Colleges are we counting?  Further Education colleges if they offer Higher Education courses (perhaps not, but the wording certainly includes them)? And what about University Colleges (like St. Mary's University College in Twickenham, London) which award their own degrees, and also places like RADA (which does not belong to the University of London, you're thinking of Central) which are seperate insitutions of Higher Education but usually have courses validated by larger Universities.  They aren't Universities, but they are presumably colleges, and the page says that we are counting "Universities and Colleges".
What about institutions that have courses running in London locations, but are principally based elsewhere?  The UCAS institution search lists 70 institutions which are technically 'Universities and Colleges' (although some call themselves 'School's) running undergraduate Higher Education courses in 'Greater London' (including Rose Bruford, which is actually based in Kent, and does not as far as I know have a London base, so the UCAS figures too may need checking), and that is without counting the institutions that don't recruit via UCAS.
Where does the 28 figure come from?  And what is it counting?
ThomasL 13:50, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: RADA is part of King's College, and is therefore part of the University of London.  --Duncan 21:38, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number of Universities and Colleges 

message: The page currently states 'London has one of the largest concentrations of universities in the UK'.  Shouldn't this be 'the largest concentration of universities in the UK'?  Even if we count the University of London colleges as one University, there are 13 or 14 full Universities in London (depending whether we count Imperial, which is just about to become independent).  I can't think of any other British town that has more than two or three full Universities (except Edinburgh, which has four).
And what about internationally?  Paris, according to the Wikipedia article on University of Paris has only thirteen universities, all under the 'University of Paris' name.  And the Wikipedia list of Universities in Berlin names only nine full Universities, although it apparently has more than London's 40 Higher Education institutions if you count its many technical colleges and institutes.  Would we be justifed in changing the London entry to read 'London has one of the largest concentrations of universities in Europe'?  Or even 'in the world?'. What does everyone think? ThomasL 09:22, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: These 40 are universities and university colleagues, not technical schools (which would be further education). It certainly is one of the largest in the world. --Duncan 23:41, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  One of the largest concentrations 

message: Since we already list the affliates to those shared services organisations, need we also link to them? They are not universities or university colleagues, in that they do not have the right to award degrees, and don't really teach either. They are devices to get targetted funding into their affliates, much the the Institute for Advanced management and other ESRC centres. It's also confusing, since, for example, RADA is part of King's and of the Conservatoire --Duncan 17:07, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good points. Of course, HECE should not be our only guide. Buckingham and the foreign universities are not funded by it. PLus, this page is about Universities, not HE institutes. Trinity Laban and the Conservatoire don't teach, or do research, they just funnel funding. --Duncan 17:20, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Non-universities like Conservatoire for Dance and Drama and Trinity Laban 

message: ThomasL makes a good suggestion: we could make a difference between the different colleges. In fact there might be three or four variants:
* Overseas universities running degree programmes on their own campus: Notre Dame and Chicago, for example, have self-contained degrees here.
* Private universities issuing degrees from overseas universities, like the ESE issuing Grenoble degrees
* Private universities ussing their own degrees, validated abroad, like Richmond
* Study abroad centres, like NYU in London and so on.
How to move forward? Just segment them in that order? --Duncan 06:09, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Foreign Universities

message: I think that we should have 2 new lists.
One could be of universities and colleges that award degrees from either UK or abroad. Including training students for extenal degrees.
The second one study abroad prgrammes in the UK which do not award degrees but the students are only here for a short time.
The former list would include places like Richmond and AIU (as AIU is still on the list despite problems) as well as places like the London School of Commerace and West London College.
The latter list would include places like NYU in London and Notre Dame. 
That does not solve the problem of all the professional colleges which should be listed somewhere as they are not tradicitional FE colleges nor are they HE colleges as they offer things like CIMA, AAT.
I would personally like to rename this higher education in London but I suspect I will not get any support.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Abdulha (talk • contribs) 09:23, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  New list 

message: Should we include Birkbeck, and possibly the Open University in London, in the first list?  Birkbeck is one of the larger University of London institutions, certainly bigger than the School of Oriental and African studies, and was excluded from the list because it does not appear in the league tables.  It seems odd to include London Metropolitan University (which refuses to participate in rankings) but not Birkbeck (which has a good reason for being excluded from the full-time student oriented rankings).  Other University of London institutions are specialised, so fit easily into the second list (Central only does theatre-related courses, and so on) but Birkbeck and the Open University offer a full range of subjects and are only excluded as part-time institutions.  What do you think?  ThomasL (talk) 15:16, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Its a difficult question. Technically none of the UL colleges on this page are major 'universities', they do however like to style themselves as 'university insititutions' based on the idea that they share many aspects of independent universities; running there own admissions programs through UCAS, independently teaching traditional full time undergraduate courses, post grad courses as well as publishing research, providing the usual university facilities such as thier own halls of residence and students unions. There is also the question of institutions having indidvidual identities, such as kings college and university college, that are internationally recognised as univerities in thier own right and largely unasociated with the umbrella institution of the UL. Birkbeck does provide higher education degree programs, but is largely populated by mature and part time students, in effect if fills the role of the ULs adult and part time college. I am hesistant to have it considered as a university in it own right as it does not fit many of the criteria mentioned above, let alone classed as a major university in London. Perhaps the section should be changed to 'major higher education institutions' and include all of the larger institutions that offer degree programs, after all Birkbeck does have a larger student body than some of the institutions currently in the list.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Natterjack1 (talk • contribs) 12:39, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

text: PS I also agree that it is definately not a specialised institution. Natterjack1 (talk) 12:44, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Speaking as one who has studied at Birkbeck, I don't think the differences are that sufficient to make it any less of a university institution than any of the other large & mutli-faculty colleges in the UofL. Yes it focuses on evening teaching and has hardly any full-time undergraduates (although most taught postgraduate and all research programmes are available full-time) but this is really just a different delivery mechanism from the norm for a somewhat different target market, with virtually all the other differences noted (not using UCAS, no halls of residence of its own - although as some of the UofL intercollegiate halls are literally the other side of the road any Birkbeck student who does need accomodation is not badly served) stemming from this. But it does teach undergraduates & postgraduates across a very wide field of subjects (hence it doesn't fit the bill of "specialised institution teaching a narrow subject area), publishes high quality research, has its own students' union and has a strong individual identity of its own. The term "major university" is rather poorly defined for the UK but the list seems to be using it as a way to distinguish large multi-faculty institutes from small and subject specalist institutes and I think by any stretch Birkbeck falls into the first of the two definitions. Timrollpickering (talk) 12:39, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Major Universities.  Birkbeck?

message: It is difficult to extract information at a glance from the lists on this page. The Major Universities section, for instance, is a bulleted list, and each list item has several data items on it: name of institution, accredition (AMBA etc.) or no accredition, and three rankings from three sources. Proposition: make it a table! The data presented would map naturally to columns Institution, Accredition, Rank (Guardian), Rank (Times), Rank (Sunday Times). Not only would it be easier to read, you would introduce the possibility of sorting by column.
The specialised university list could also be presented as a table, even if it only has two columns. Aligining the type of specialisation would again make the data easier to read and comprehend.
83.217.111.202 (talk) 16:18, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tables instead of free-form text and lists 

message: I went through the list of higher education institutes on UCAS website so they have all be added to this article. Quite a few of the new ones I have added are red links and it would be good to create at least a stub for each of these. Any help would be greatly appreciated.Mephiston999 (talk) 22:59, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  UCAS List 

message: :List of universities in London → List of universities and higher education colleges in London — As suggested in the discussion of featured list status, this page deals with all higher education institutions in London, not just universities, and therefore needs retitling.  'List of colleges and universities in London' might be simpler, but would result in confusion, and the repeated addition of further education colleges, a different category in British education (most do not offer degree level or higher education).  Similarly a 'List of universities in London' that excluded colleges would also be confusing, given that University of London colleges, and colleges of higher education are major providers of higher education in London, but not technically universities.  Would 'List of universities and higher education colleges in London' be acceptable?  Does anybody have a better title suggestion? ThomasL (talk) 17:44, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: It would be better to make three distinct sections for Specialized, Private and Defunct universities and higher education colleges  — Preceding unsigned comment added by GS-216.1993 (talk • contribs) 17:06, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  New sections 

message: I have just deleted the section on "Proposed universities" added in 2009 ahead of the 2012 Olympics, which failed the WP:CRYSTALBALL test. Current (2019) plans are for new campuses for University College London and University of the Arts London, so there will not be a new institution as envisaged in 2009. TSventon (talk) 12:27, 5 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed universities