Talk:Nightmare (Soulcalibur)

message: Can somone clarify me from where this fragment from Nightmare's biography comes from?: 
Taken from Wikipedia's Nightmare Profile: 
"As Siegfried Schtauffen lay wounded on the ground, having been defeated by Kilik's holy bo staff Kali-Yuga, he gradually began to become a prominent force in Nightmare's mind once again. During this time, he witnessed the banishment of the blazing Inferno of Soul Edge into the void by the holy sword Soul Calibur, and the Soul Calibur's fall into the void along with its counterpart. And he watched as its former wielder, Chai Xianghua, quietly left the castle, aiding her wounded companion along the way."
As of my knowledge, neither Siegfried SC profile, Nightmare SC2 Profile or either of both's SC3 Profiles (both from Soularchive.jp and in-game) gives reference to this happening. Even more, Nightmare's SC2 website profile, longer and more detailed, gives the impresion that Nightmare/Siegfried got sucked into the void alongside Inferno and Soul Calibur: 
Fragment taken from Nightmare's Soul Calibur II Profile from Soularchive.jp: 
"...The battle between the swordsmen took place in a vortex of hellfire 
and evil energy summoned by Soul Edge. After a raging battle, the evil sword 
shattered, and both Nightmare and Soul Edge fell into the collapsing void.
With Soul Edge severely weakened, Nightmare regained some of his humanity. Along 
with lucidity came the horrifying memories of the sins he committed, as well as 
the fear and anger of those who were slaughtered by him. Moreover, he realized 
that he had been the one who murdered his father.
Expelled from the void into an unfamiliar place, Nightmare disappeared into the 
night-the evil sword still in his grip. But Soul Edge was weaker now, and 
splinters of itself were left in Nightmare's footsteps."
So if anyone can clear this to me, I'll greatly apreciate it. Thanks (Johnny Master 07:59, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Confused

message: How come there's no main picture? Every character used to have one? Silver Fang 07:44, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And it seems no one has put one up yet...Dark reaper6789 17:41, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture 

message: Is Nightmare really a breakout character? I know that due to his apperance he tends to catch people's eye a lot easier then other characters, but according to wikipedia's "breakout character" page the breakout chracter also tends to be the most popular character, and i'll need a source before I can let that breakout character exist on the page with peace of mind. BassxForte 19:35, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Breakout 

message: Point by point, my reasons for every edit I did: 
1) "Nightmare made his first appearance in Soul Calibur and has returned for both Soul Calibur II and Soul Calibur III. This character originally appeared in as "Siegfried!", an extra costume for Siegfried that was actually used to represent Siegfried's possession (by Soul Edge) in Siegfried's ending. He is Soul Calibur's Breakout character."
:This paragraph is just redundant information all over. His appearances are covered the paragraph above this (...making his debut in Soul Calibur... in first sentence and ...Nightmare has been present in both sequels to Soul Calibur, Soul Calibur II and Soul Calibur III... in last paragraph). The "Siegfried!" commentary is stated on the first paragraph on his story section (...In the home version, an extra character named Siegfried! was added as an unlockable character. "Siegfried!" was an alternate version of normal Siegfried...), and the "Breakout" comment is unreferenced opinion from whoever edited it.
2)"Some call it the "Sword of Heroes", others the "Sword of Immortality". Although the details of this legendary sword changed while the rumors spread around the world, its nature is unmistakably evil. The evil sword is said to change forms to accommodate its wielder's fighting style and experience. Whenever the sword is bathed in blood, its single eye appears enraptured. It can control its wielder to commit grotesque crimes in order to consume souls, but its true purpose and intents remain unknown. After the events surrounding its defeat at the hands of two young warriors, the sword has been severely weakened. But still its power remains as a great force. In the present Soul Edge is now in a dormant state, sealed alongside its polar opposite, Soul Calibur, in what is known as the "Soul Embrace".
:Soul Edge weapon profile is both storytelling and in-universe. There are many lines taken from both SC and SC2 weapon descriptions, with slight alterations. Besides, the description is both storytelling (describing the sword as in a story, not as in an enciclopedia) and in-universe (telling it from an inside the SC world view, instead of real world persepective). It is also quite long, and repeat information mentioned already on the sword's personal page. If an user wants to learn more about Soul Edge, he/she should follow the "main article" link.
3) After Nightmare was granted a new body, he used his memories of the sword alongside his great strength and will, and materialized this weapon from his body. It seems like a phantom memento of his origin. Nothing is really known about this sword. It is still capable of absorbing souls in order to maintain Nightmare's new shell, but it is dwarfed in comparison to the genuine Soul Edge in terms of power, meaning it has no other special effects.
This sword is created in a way similar to how Charade and Inferno create their own weapons (from their bodies), further hinting at Nightmare's relation with Inferno.
:Same problem as before. Also, this section is way too long for a weapon with no official background (SC3 has no Weapon Profile). 
4) Trivia (personal favourite): 
In Tales of Souls, near the end of any character's path, with the obvious exception of Nightmare's and Siegfried's, Nightmare will face off against Siegfried, and the winner will face the player's character next.
:Already said before in the article. No need to repeat itself (penultimate paragraph. ...They also possess their own event around the last chapters of the mode, in which both have a short fight in which the player later confronts the winner.).
In Soul Calibur III, Nightmare's weapons and fighting style are available under the discipline Soul of Nightmare to characters created under the Barbarian class.
:In my revision, this was included into the body of the article, so it wasn't lost. 
Nightmare's nickname in Soul Calibur is "Azure Nightmare". He's also known in the story as the "Azure Knight". 
Nightmare's Destined Battle in Soul Calibur is Sophitia and in Soul Calibur II and Soul Calibur III his Destined Battle is Raphael.
:Meaningless trivia. Wikipedia is not a fansite for Soul Calibur. Such meaningless things like nicknames and Destined Battles are as important to a non-knowledgable reader as Nightmare's height and weight (stats already removed for a similar reason). If anyone wants to find these information, he/she should check a fan-based or official site.
In Soul Calibur III, the helmet of Nightmare's second costume looks very much like the helmet of Sauron from the Lord of the Rings series.
:Opinion. I myself think that Nightmare's helmet looks like Saint Seiya's Unicorn Jabu helmet. Should I add that? What about the fact the Elder God Armor on MKArmageddon looks quite similar to his armor? Why don't we just get a section for similarities? This is pure opinion of someone, not a fact that can be referenced or cited, unless the creator says he based it on Sauron, but we know that's not the case.
According to the line "Hehe...Ha Ha Ha Ha-Power flows through me!",it is possible that Nightmare is in fact Night Terror.(Which it appears in Nightmare's input ending in Soulcalibur III)
:Why a line about power has to do with Night Terror? That Nightmare feels power has nothing to do with the fact he can turn into Night Terror (since he does it when both swords got fused with him, not by gathering souls or in the middle of the fight) This is another opinion, based on nothing more than a simple line and the editor's POV. Not acceptable.
Nightmare is technically Soul edge so this makes Nightmare the main antagonist of the game series.
:The fact he's the main antagonist/villain was already covered at the start. The fact he's Soul Edge is already accounted in the sinopsis of his SC3 profile (...thought the sword's "spirit" or will escaped before and entered the armor Siegfried discarded after reclaiming his body.). There's not a need to point out something that can be easily discovered by reading the history of the char.
I hope this clears up my intention. 201.255.10.227 01:55, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Did you even read what the anon said? Most of the information is redundant and too detailed. Some of it is also copy-pasted from official sources and he reworded the text to make it original. - Zero1328 Talk? 01:10, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Okay. 

message: Okay, this is pretty much just like the old character analysis section from before. I'm removing these for the same reason people from before deleted the character analysis section. If you want to find out why, check out Taki's and Kilik's talk pages. If people want a strategy guide, they should go to fansites. Mythmonster2 (talk) 06:27, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Gameplay

message: In a possibly vain attempt to improve the quality of this article by addressing the in-universe representation of Nightmare, I'd like to clarify his personality traits in the article.  So here are the facts:
-In Soulcalibur I and II, Nightmare is the alter-ego of Siegfried.  In other words Siegfried is the one wearing the armor.
-In Soulcalibur III and IV, Nightmare is a shell inhabited by the will of Soul Edge, in other words he is Inferno, in a suit of otherwise empty armor.  This is made quite clear in the character profiles in both games.
-Nightmare uses the same personality and mannerisms in all his appearances; victory animations, key phrases ("Blood...darkness...Come unto me!"), etc.
Near as I can reckon, this means one of two things:
-The will of Soul Edge permanently adopted this portion of Siegfried's personality.
-It was really Soul Edge(Inferno) speaking all along while using Siegfried as a host.
Which stance do we want the article to take?  Or instead just present all of this and let the reader make up his own mind? (or maybe none of this...who knows)--199.79.10.117 (talk) 19:02, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nightmare's personality 

message: I edited the article so that it refers to only the character named "Nightmare" (be it Siegfried or otherwise), so that the article, following its name, would only be about Nightmare and not both Nightmare and "hero" Siegfried (especially considering he has his own mini-article while the other Soulcalibur characters with their own full-size articles don't). My idea, if anyone wants to restore the information, is that the article is renamed "Siegfried and Nightmare" or something like that and information for both characters is included.--172.132.65.31 (talk) 19:57, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removing information for "good guy" Siegfried 

message: --Niemti (talk) 07:50, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Disagree there needs to more sources for Siegfried as its is a separate character.Dwanyewest (talk) 07:03, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  If Siegfried is the same (and original) character, all info should be merged here and the article renamed 

message: So, typing in: "Siegfried Schtauffen" redirects to Nightmare (Soulcalibur)?? I'm first off not going to even comment about how Nightmare has a main article and not Siegfried, more than enough information exists for him already, so there is no excuse. The only info of Sieg that should exist on the Nightmare page should be information of Soulcalibur I and II Nightmare/Sieg, as Nightmare became a seperate character fully on after SCII.
Also, pretty sure searching "Siegfried Schtauffen" should redirect to List of Soul characters if Sieg has no main article at the time. Aelvir Valfort Lugn (talk) 18:43, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  This redirect should be fixed.. 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Siegfried material being at User:SNAAAAKE!!/sandbox and it's essentially a single character anyway. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 17:31, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge into a "Siegfried and Nightmare"? 

message: See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games#Siegfried and Nightmare. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:56, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussion 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) – MaterialWorks ping me! 10:28, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Siegfried and Nightmare →  – As discussed in the above discussion, Nightmare is the only arguably notable character here. The scope should be changed back, and Siegfried content merged away.  ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 07:07, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 9 June 2023