Talk:Synesthesia/Archive 1

message: Note to Solipsist, This is a question to re-add a link at "External Links - Synesthesia". The link is: http://www.doctorhugo.org/synaesthesia/index.htm
Synaesthesia and the Arts - Dr. Hugo Heyrman 'Museums of the Mind'. Research and theory on the future of the senses. Homepage of the Belgian Synesthesia Association.
This website is internationally considered by academical researchers as a relevant source on Synaesthesia. It is a 'Synaesthesia Portal' (not a link farm) since it contains original contributions around the topic Art and Synaesthesia.  Best regards, Dr. Hugo 12:38, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I could have got this one wrong. I was removing quite a few of the external links a couple of weeks back. In general we don't really want external links, since we would rather have the information contained within the article, and this article (in common with many other) has a tendancy to attract external links of dubious benefit. However, your supporting references are quite persuasive. Does anyone else think this external link should go back in? -- Solipsist 15:43, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: External links

message: I had some problems with the line near the end of the article:
"The ability to read is also considered a form of synaesthesia - the linking of shapes to sounds."
As a linguist, I know that we don't hear sounds in our brains. We hear sound with our ears.  Your brain interprets the signals into mental representations, which may be similar in manifestation in the brain as sounds or images or concepts.  But it only becomes *sound* if you then speak what you've read out loud, word for word.  
To say that the transition from symbols on a page to mental representations in your brain is synaesthetic would be to say that EVERY input is synesthetic.  As I said above, you don't see with your brain, and you don't read with your eyes.  The input happens at the input organ and then gets turned into mental representations.
If reading is synaesthetic, then we're all synaesthetes (even people who can't read have learned to associate lights and shapes with meaning, ie stop lights, traffic signs), which detracts from how interesting the process is for people who are genuinely synaesthetic at the input level.
:You're right. That was a stupid sentence, and I removed it. Next time be bold and do it yourself! —Keenan Pepper 17:53, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The difference is that they are metaphors, not descriptions of literal perceptions. When people call me a beanpole they mean I'm skinny, not that they actually see a beanpole when they look at me. Hyacinth 19:49, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

text: That's just a matter of how abstracted or subtle the metaphor/simile is, not of people really perceiving a voice as having a color. People don't refer to a certain person as a "beanpole" because he resembles a beanpole: people are not thin poles used to support bean vines. They use "beanpole" to describe people because a beanpole and a person share a certain characteristic: their thinness (though the degree of thinness is not the same, making this also an example of indirect hyperbole). So it's a matter of associating certain qualities with certain things ("beanpoles are thin, therefore beanpole = thin"), and then generalizing those qualities to apply to other things ("George = thin", therefore "George = beanpole"). The same principle applies to describing a voice as being "like polished wood" or "like velvet". Because velvet is characteristically soft and smooth, people develop the idea "velvet = soft, smooth". When they hear a voice that is pleasantly to the ear and has a low, soothing tone, they similarly describe that voice as being "soft" even though it's a purely auditory, not tactile, thing, because similarly pleasant, soothing feelings are provoked by rubbing something soft and hearing something "soft". The same applies to the concept of "smooth" being transferred from touch to hearing, originally as a comparison or metaphor, but eventually to the point where the concept of "soft" applies equally to something that feels soft and to something that sounds soft. Finally, by process of analogy, people make the last metaphorical leap by equating a certain object that is soft and smooth (like velvet) with a certain sound that is "soft" and "smooth", and, with a bit of poetic license, say, "that voice is like velvet", even though the voice isn't a fabric with a smooth, dense pile and a plain underside. Similarly, when someone says "you're such a pig!" upon seeing your disordered room, they're only referring to a single, specific characteritic commonly associated with pigs (they're supposed messiness), not to every characteristic of a pig (even ones that apply, such as its mammalian classification and largely-hairless pink skin). Therefore, to say that people really, literally perceive a certain sound as being "like velvet" is to miss the point entirely; noone actually perceives the sounds that way, they just refer to it that way as an expressive metaphorical linguistic device because "silk" has certain noteworthy characteristics (a soft smoothness) and associations (richness and luxuriousness) that are widely enough understood to be called upon directly with the word "silk" in metaphorically comparing silk with things that are entirely unlike silk. And neither situation has anything to do with synaesthesia, which is sensory, not linguistic/intellectual. -Silence 22:23, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reading as Synaesthesia 

message: When I was younger, I experienced Synaesthesia, the first time I tried marijuana. It's not usually referred to as a hallucinagenic drug, but, being inexperienced, I smoked way too much, and got really paranoid. My friend brought me out some slices of bread, which was the only food available, and as I ate them, the taste made me think green. I didn't see green, or even picture it in my head. My brain just thought "green". It's hard to explain, and in subsequent times smoking, I didn't experience it again.
Anyway, has anyone else had this experience, and should it be added to the artical?
--Richy 20:02, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Synaesthesia and [[drugs]]

message: I read somewhere that there was  training called cognitive association to develop super memory and photoreading.--Jondel 02:30, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, if there's no article you can research it and write it... this idea came to my mind as well. As some synethetes mention that it can help their memories (as we see) then doing this (along for general perceptional beauty) selectively would be a great developement. Tyciol 05:21, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Artificial synaesthesia=Cognitive association

message: In the synaesthesia in art section it mentions the "yellow coctail music" in The Great Gatsby. Although it may seem like a synaesthesic reference, and it may well be, I think further consideration should be taken because of the very heavy color symbolism found in the novel. Colors are the most prominant symbols throughout the entire novel (ex: the green lantern, the yellow dress, yellow car, yellow coctail music, white suit(?), etc.) and the color yellow is a recurring symbol revolving around Daisy and how she makes Gatsby feel and is significant when interperating the meaning of the car scene, her dress' influence on Gatsby and, I believe, the coctail music. When viewed in context with the other references to it in the novel, I am inclined to think that, rather than a synaesthesic reference, it was simply an extention or jump to stretch the symbol even farther to make sense of the scene in which it was mentioned. I'm no expert on the novel, but I did recently study it in school. -Dave 04:47, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fitzgerald Reference 

message: I have heard it said that it isn't quite true that different synaesthetes have independent colours for letters of the alphabet. Many apparently learned the colours as a young child from pictures illustrating the alphabet in books or classroom posters. This explains why many think that 'S' is yellow (= sun) and 'A' is green (=apple). (Incidentally, as a mild synaesthete, S is yellow for me too.) I don't have a source for this but haven't tried to find one. Ben Finn 14:12, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Much of the research I've come across on the subject does indicate large spikes in color similarities between their "research subjects" on certain letters. S was one of them, I believe. S is yellow for me too, by the way. A is yellow as well, though, not green. -Dave 02:23, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: S doesn't have a color for me, but A is very clearly red. I think the article should make clearer that associating colors to letters doesn't necesarilly mean syntaesthesia. Right and left are green and red to me, but I think that's because I learned about port and starboard sometime before my age had two digits. To me, the seasons all have directions: spring is right, summer is up, fall is left, and winter is down. My sister does it completely opposite. Do these mean I'm synaesthetic? Not at all. Also, a part of it is simply suggestion: after reading the above two comments, S now seems yellow to me. It'll go back to no color as soon as I forget this page. And now that I think about it, I can associate a major key to sweet flavor and a minor key to sour: major is pleasant sounding, but sometimes it can get too much and be sickeningly sweet. Minor keys aren't exactly pleasing, but they're interesting and even refreshing. Too much, though, is unpleasant. This is just something I made up on the spot, but it works. So, it comes back to the original point of this section: these associations can come from experiences (alphabet books), suggestions (my new belief that S is the color yellow), or logic (like the major/minor comparison). None of these seem to be a cause of true synthaesia, and are quite commmon. This isn't really discussed in the article. Twilight Realm 04:26, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Please sign your posts on talk pages per Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages. Thanks! Hyacinth 09:09, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, forgot. Twilight Realm 04:26, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

text:  I doubt it's a learned influence.  My fiance is synesthesiac, and although she describes individual letters as having specific colors, she says that when they are combined in words, the coloration of the word doesn't follow simplistically.  "I" might be green, and "S" might be blue, but "IS" is not necessarily green-blue or green followed by blue.  It could be green-blue with red flecks, or blue-purple-green or so on. --El benito 02:15, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Alphabet books as source of letter colours

message: Sounds like fingernails on a chalkboard, silverware screeching on a plate, and (to some people, not me) chalk squeaking on a chalkboard are not only unpleasant sounds; they can cause other effects. I myself have a similar feeling as when I see a nasty-looking cut, a feeling close to physical pain. That type of sound can cause shivers, and I also sometimes feel a pain-like sensation in my teeth. Is this another example of common synsaesthesia-like associations, such as the booba/kiki picture? Twilight Realm 03:00, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a great insight! I admit, I get the same kind of revulsion... I'm not sure they're associated in a general sensory way... probably that they are stimulations that generate the same instinctive revulsions for self defense purposes. Loud noises usually indicate an angry animal or a disaster or, even without danger, a danger to our eardrums! The cut thing is obvious, we fear our mortality, although evolutionarily speaking I'm not sure what the advantage to hemophobia would be, except for perhaps being less inclined to brutalize each other, or to encourage us to cook our meat... Tyciol 05:24, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Fingernails on a chalkboard

message: The sentence beginning "Only We Matter" makes no sense to me. Whoever or whatever "Only We Matter" is needs explanation. The rest of the sentence is very vague as well. JMD 17:04, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Only We Matter" sentence fix need 

message: --68.39.71.124 19:34, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confused 

message: I'm not sure about the 'Other examples' section. Although in principle its a good idea to include a first hand account, I'm not convinced that quotes from slashdot discussions are a the best place to go for one. We really ought to use a quote from a more reliable source. This borders on Wikipedia:no original research. -- Solipsist 08:27, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other examples 

message: Another plausible synaesthete composer is Arthur Bliss and his Colour Symphony of 1922. However at the moment, I can only find circumstantial references on the web. -- Solipsist 16:39, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Synaesthesia in art