Talk:Bolivarianism

message: According to the article Simón Bolívar, Bolívar was " a classical 'liberal' and defender of the free market economic system" and "an adherent of limited government, the separation of powers, freedom of religion, property rights, and the rule of law." How much of this Liberalism is included in "Bolivarianism"? —Ashley Y 04:23, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: I added some citation requests on parts of the page because some of the things it says seem a little POV to me.
--Ernalve 04:16, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations 

message: The article Chavismo says "Chavismo or Chavezism is the name given to the left-wing political ideology based on the ideas, programs and government style associated with the present president of Venezuela, Hugo Chávez, also referred to as Bolivarianism". No need of to articles about the same thing JRSP 12:54, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't agree - two articles needed, as the terms are used differently.  SandyG 23:00, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Can you explain "Chavismo or Chavezism [...] also referred to as Bolivarianism". What is the difference between the terms? JRSP 02:22, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I don't agree with merger either. Anagnorisis 14:57, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Could you please explain why two different articles are needed? JRSP 20:50, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

text:  I consider both articles deal about just the same thing, in the worst of cases they are very close related concepts, both articles combined are below 32K of prose. Why do you consider there should be two articles? JRSP 12:00, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, you are inthe minority considering that. I consider that it is not the case. Please do not enforce your minority view. Anagnorisis 12:53, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Please check WP:NOT#DEMOCRACY, we are not just voting but discussing about the merger. Could you explain your reasons for opposing the merger? JRSP 22:37, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

text:  Isnt Bolivarianism an ideology born from the thoughts of Simon Bolivar and Chavismo from Hugo Chavez? Although Chavez claims to follow Bolivarianism, it is at least discreet to say that Chavismo is a sort of Neo-Bolivarianism that holds many of the principles of the orginal ideology but due to the changes of circumstances of present day, it cannot be exactly the same. The articles should remain separate. Thats what i think. (72.181.194.88 21:50, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge proposal

message: Given that no reason was provided with the original assertion, the person who objected has had plenty of time to respond to the request and has failed to do so, and that no one else has objected, I'd say it's perfectly alright to go ahead with the merge. Seraphimblade 12:10, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Where does it say I have to give a reason? I give my opinion and my vote. Enough. I do not have to justify why I think they should not be merged. I have an opinion and that is it. It is not for somebody else (you?) to then validate my opinion. Oh, yes, it may be nice and considerate to give reasons so that others can then think some more. But simply saying that I do not agree with has been said means I do not think the same. You think someone is nice and I say I disagree, that means I think he is not nice. Or do I have to state the obvious!? Anagnorisis 13:00, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

text: By the way, do we have a rule carved in stone about what is "plenty of time"? Or is that another subjective POV? What may be plenty of time for you may not be for somebody else. Please show me the rule that deals with plenty of time and that states that after such "plenty of time" has passed then it becomes too late and things must remain static. Thanks in advance for replying to my request within my consideration of "plenty of time" (I am not telling how long that is). Anagnorisis 13:04, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:3O is designed to deal with subjective cases-that's why it's called a third opinion. As to where it is encouraged to provide one's rationale, and not to view discussions as a "vote", you may wish to review this rationale. Providing a rationale helps all editors involved understand your position, and may bring to light a new thought or way of looking at the situation that had not been previously considered. As to a significant period of time, I believe that a week would generally be seen as quite sufficient, especially given a notification on the party's talk page as well as the discussion page of the article that a rationale had been requested. Seraphimblade 12:18, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

text: It is a question of definition IMO. If Chavismo were defined as "simply repeating what Chavez says", I could agree with Anagnorisis but in its article, Chavismo is defined as "the left-wing political ideology based on the ideas, programs and government style associated with the present president of Venezuela, Hugo Chávez" while Bolivarianism says in its lead "The most prominent exponent and architect of modern Bolivarianism is currently Venezuelan president Hugo Chávez". . Different interpretations of the meaning of "Bolivarianism" are already considered in Bolivarianism#Other definitions and dispute so I still think both articles should be merged, specially considering they are very small sized articles, not the same case of comunism and Leninism. As it stands now, Chavismo looks like a POV fork JRSP 11:49, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Regarding Zarbat's suggestion of merging Chavismo into Hugo Chávez, this last article is becoming too long so I do not think a merger there would be a better idea. There is however a Bolivarianism and Chavismo section it that article. JRSP 13:04, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

text: I agree we can find "chavismo", "Chavezism" and "Bolivarianism" as different terms but I still think these concepts are strongly related: If we google "Bolivarianism" we mostly get hits about Chávez thus, although Bolivarianism has a broader sense, it definitively includes chavismo/Chavezism; therefore, I think the latter should better be worked as a section in the Bolivarianism article and not as a stubby separate article. Could you elaborate Sandy on your opinion that the term that is the misnomer, since it has little to do with Bolivar, as I told before, if we google "Bolivarianism" we get lots of references to Chávez JRSP 10:50, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

text: The point is not if Chávez is Bolívar, he is not. The point we are discussing is if Chávismo should be merged into Bolivarianism or kept as a separate article JRSP 21:45, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

text: If you google Bolivarianism, you get hits about chavez because he is the most popular icon to name Bolivarianism these days. I dont think that makes enough of an argument to claim that Chavezism or Chavismo is the same as Bolivarianism. (72.181.194.88 21:56, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Third opinion

message: Shouldn't the text go on wikisource instead of here? 69.241.224.148 18:37, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Constitution 

message: In the section "Chavismo", the author defines Chavez' political party as the "Fifth Republic Movement", and gives the Spanish (correctly) as Movimiento Quinta Republica ... but then goes on to abbreviate it "MVR" instead of what I percieve would correctly be "MQR."  Having not read any other resources on this subject, is there a reason why "MVR" is correct, or have I found a typo?  Simply curious ... F117-A 11:28, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The "V" stands for the roman numeral "5". It is a pun on MBR-Movimiento Bolivariano Revolucionario, in Spanish "B" and "V" sound just the same and Venezuelan laws forbid using the name of Bolívar as part of the name of a political party. JRSP 13:38, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ya know, I had thought about that, but was unsure ... and therefore I asked.  I was unaware of the prohibition on using Bolivar's name, but it is consistent with the basic philosophy I have encountered in Latin American politics.  Thank you for the clarification.  F117-A 06:58, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fifth Republic Movement 

message: In fact, this uselless fraud(or ideology) has nothing to show.In fact, bolivarianism is just populism, only the same old things, under new names.More than eighty years ago, Benito Mussolini claimed that he was rebuilting the Julius Caesar's work, in Roman Empire.Today, Hugo Chávez claims that he is rebuilting the work of Simon Bolivar.Nothing really new, except the names.Benito Mussolini wasn't a new Julius Caesar and Hugo Chavez isn't a new Simon Bolivar.Such as Benito Mussolini, Hugo Chávez is a tirant, a fascist and a buffoon.Among economy, all things that Hugo Chávez did and wants to do, were made decades before, by other demagogues, in Latin America.All had terrible results.Boliviarism is populism, with some drops of fascism.Only bad things will be did by Hugo Chavez.Such as Mussolini, Hugo Chavez will legate misery, shame, failures, corruption to Venezuela.Agre22 (talk) 21:53, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Nothing really new, in bolivarianism

message: it should be noted that brazil not being considered as part of the pan american ideal, is probably due mostly not to the language, but to history, being that it remained a monarchy [empire/kingdom], for most of the time while the other peoples of south america fought an independence war [with a different empire than it's metropolis], and struggled to create republics, and it instead fought against them, trying to conquer their land. the fact of two different realities must be acknowledged.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.135.155.62 (talk) 03:24, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Brazil

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The articles Bolivarianism, Bolivarian propaganda, Bolivarian Revolution strongly overlap. Though one can argue there is a distinction in what these expressions technically mean, I do not think there is enough to those distinctions to warrant separate articles. Similarly, I would tend to argue that Chavism can be considered a topic within Bolivarianism that does not merit its own article. Certainly at least having 4 broadly similar articles on this interwoven thread does not make sense (though having articles on more specific sub-topics does, e.g. Bolivarian missions, Bolivarian diaspora, etc.).
- MC  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.131.2.3 (talk) 18:36, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: See Nazism and Nazi propaganda, two separate articles. Even if the Bolivarian/Bolivarianism articles were related in a way, they would still be separate articles. The details and content on propaganda alone is notable enough for its own article. As for the Bolivarian diaspora, that is what the trend is termed as.--ZiaLater (talk) 00:54, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  I understand. My point is that, at this time, there is not enough distinct content for the separate Bolivarian articles and, frankly, it is unclear that it is warranted to ever create so much content. The Nazi articles can be considered somewhat different simply because the overall impact of Nazism in the world has been much broader than Bolivarianism (though perhaps that could change in the future). But others are welcome to disagree. --MC  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.131.2.3 (talk) 16:15, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge Bolivarian propaganda 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion