Talk:Gumbo

message: This article could be improved. I'm only commenting as I noticed that this is supposedly a featured article. Using the UN definition of West Africa, there are NO Indigenous Bantu (Niger-Congo B) speaking people in West Africa. The proto-Bantu language most likely owes it's origin to Cameroon. American African slaves were additional to West African, acquired from Wene wa Kongo and it's satellite and tributary states in what is now modern day Angola and Congo. Therefore you should correct the article to specify that the word may be of Southern African or Angolan slave origin if you propose it being a Bantu word derivative.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.178.231.138 (talk) 16:52, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for commenting. I think the article has gone through various wordings over time, and I raised a problem with how it looked at one stage on this talk page, but due to the obstructive practice of archiving useful discussions you are unlikely to have seen it: Talk:Gumbo/Archive_1#Bantu_etymology:_clarification_needed. I am too far from this now to be sure whether the problem you mention still stands. I think the section is better at present than I've seen it in the past. Beorhtwulf (talk) 14:10, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Etymology

message: There has recently been a series of attempts by an IP editor to force in a paragraph referring to the expression "toxic gumbo" used to describe water following Hurricane Katrina.  While this might be relevant to the hurricane's article, it had nothing to do with the actual dish; the word was simply co-opted for use in another context.  Despite having been reverted by a number of editors, the IP continues for force the edit with highly uncivil edit summaries.  I'm opening this discussion in the hope that the IP editor and other involved editors will discuss and establish consensus in a civil matter.  My position is already clear -- the paragraph has no place in this article; at best, it's trivia.  --Drmargi (talk) 03:22, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: AS one of the targets of this editor insults, the toxic gumbo reference does not belong in the article. It is questionably sourced and irrelevant to the article. Unfortunately the editor in question will just change his IP address, as he has done multiple times in the past, look at the history. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 20:24, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The questionable sources are no longer an issue. I found several newspaper articles that were solely about the use of this term in precisely the context the anon was talking about, as well as several relevant instances in Google Books. They're not wrong that it was in fact a real colloquialism, and it's one of the several ways that gumbo has been used as a metaphor in New Orleans -- for instance, there were books that detailed how gumbo has been used throughout history as a metaphor for describing the mix of cultures that lead to New Orleans and Creole culture in general. I think it merits inclusion, described properly as a term that related to a fleeting situation. Steven Walling • talk  20:53, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'm glad there are better sources, but I can't agree that it belongs in the article, and in fact think its inclusion opens a Pandora's box.  Were it about gumbo, yes.  But it's about a euphemism adopted during the events following Katrina, and belongs in the Katrina article, if anywhere.  It doesn't pass WP:TRIVIA, doesn't fit into the overall flow of the article, and worse, opens the door for a compendium of every colloquial use of gumbo, which I'm sure your book makes clear are plentiful.  I'd also add that it's a distasteful and somewhat insensitive reference to an unfortunate period of time, particularly given it is associated with, as you describe it, a fleeting situation.  --Drmargi (talk) 21:18, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yeah, but I don't think we have to let a big list in. I think the correct way of going about it is to write a one paragraph or less statement summarizing the uses of the word gumbo in a non-literal sense, and maybe use toxic gumbo as an example. As for distasteful: yes, as someone really enjoys gumbo I agree. :) But verifiability means that if there's a preponderance of sources about a mainstream view of a topic, we should probably include something about it, even if just in passing. Steven Walling • talk  21:29, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  I strongly disagree with its inclusion. Just because something is verifiable does not mean it needs to be included. This article is about the food product gumbo. It is not about Hurricane Katrina, and should not be included as such. If there are other meanings or usages for the word there should be a disambiguation page set up and a hat note placed at the top of the article. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 03:42, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  Oh come on. It's a term with the word gumbo in it, directly related to the concept, but disambig pages are not for listing concepts which are unlikely to have an article. They're for disambiguating articles or likely articles. Verifiability and notability are in fact our primary tests for inclusion, and if you looked at the sources, you'd know this meets both requirements easily. At this point it seems like people are reacting negatively based on the IP who was being rude. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. When someone, even an anonymous editor, fights for inclusion of something, it's worth taking a second look at the sources and giving it a reasonable chance. This isn't the Israeli-Palestinian conflict here, it's just gumbo. Steven Walling • talk  04:23, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I am not against its inclusion due to an IP contributor with anger management issues, I am against it because it has nothing to do with the food dish known as gumbo besides a onetime trivial usage in another media. Because of this trivial use of the word, I feel that it does not warrant inclusion. Additionally, this usage is simply an example of WP:Recentism that has long passed its expiration. It is not an ongoing, common usage of the term. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 04:30, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

text: As you can see our behaviorally challenged IP is back, IP hopping around the ban. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 03:25, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  I saw that, and let the blocking admin know earlier this evening.  --Drmargi (talk) 06:41, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  We have a week until he comes back...--Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 17:27, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

text: Please, no Toxic in this Gumbo. It has nothing to do with the subject at hand.   Dlohcierekim  18:15, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

text: Generally, a Wikipedia article should be based on reliable sources.  Sometimes we may have first-hand knowledge of something, but if the sources don't discuss it, we can't put it in the article.  Also, articles should be neutral point of view, which means the weight of coverage is given to what is most accepted.  Per the sources, the two types of gumbo (chicken and seafood) are always separate.  Per my Mamaw, who is as Cajun as they come, chicken and seafood are always separate, always have been, always should be or else.  Karanacs (talk) 14:20, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Toxic gumbo  

message: Agreed that beef is rarely used in Gumbo, however pork is used in many places in Central and North Louisiana to aid the wild taste of a gumbo made with critters such as squirrel, deer, duck, and other wild game.  In a lot of homes in North Louisiana a chicken and sausage gumbo is commonplace.  As far as gumbo being rarely served in restaurants has the writer traveled in Louisiana or eaten at non-chain restaurants?  I've had gumbo in a lot of restaurants especially in Acadiana.173.217.129.124 (talk) 22:07, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right, "regular" gumbo is often served in restaurants.  gumbo z'herbes is not (and that's what the line was referring to).  As for the rest, the article was written based on the sources that could be found - if you know of any reliable sources that talk about pork in gumbo, we can definitely add that.  Karanacs (talk) 18:16, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Someone needs to travel Louisiana  

message: footnotes 5, 6, 10 & 37, Gutierrez (1992), quote 17 times, but there's no book or journal listed below.
check history, it should be
*
but indicate wrong isbn, should be 0878055630? Don't know why removed. section "Thickeners", why delete all footnotes? Also the last paragraph of section "Development".--Jarodalien (talk) 04:37, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I've just reverted the article back to an older version.  There's been a lot of vandalism over the last few years and it had degenerated pretty badly.  It should be in much better shape now.  Thanks for adding the cn tag - that made it pop up on my watchlist and I noticed the issues. Karanacs (talk) 05:00, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  possible FAR 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Beef is not often used in Gumbo today but prior to WWII it was often found in many (if not most) gumbo recipes.  TourCreole (talk) 13:36, 5 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Beef In Gumbo 

message: The Creole Trinity (onion, celery, bell pepper) does not appear in Creole recipes until after WWII.  Variations of it are often used - onion and bell pepper, onion and celery, etc., sometimes garlic, often thyme - and often no seasoning vegetables at all.  One can see this in the very sources quoted in this article, as well as in The Christian Women's Exchange's "Creole Cookery"(1885) and in "La Cuisine Creole," attributed to Lafcadio Hearn (also 1885). TourCreole (talk) 13:45, 5 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Creole Trinity is 20th Century 

message: "La Cuisine Creole", published 1885, attributed to Lafcadio Hearn combines chicken, beef, ham and seafood in several recipes, including "REMARKS ON GOMBO OF OKRA OR FILEE" and in "GOMBO WITH CRABS OR SHRIMP", which contains ham and seafood; "OYSTER GOMBO WITH FILEE, NO. 1" contains chicken, ham and oysters; "GOMBO FILEE WITH OYSTERS, NO. 2" also uses ham and seafood; "CHICKEN GOMBO WITH OYSTERS" is exactly, that; "CRAB GOMBO, WITH OKRA" uses crabs, ham and beef or veal stock.
Celestine Eustis's COOKING IN OLD CREOLE DAYS" has several chicken/seafood gumbo recipes, as does The Christian Women's Exchange's 1885 "CREOLE COOKERY."  
In 1951 Mary Land published "LOUISIANA COOKERY" and her recipes are either/or but not both.  (Nor does it contain the Creole Trinity, only onions.) However, in "TO A KING'S TASTE (A CARNIVAL OF RECIPES) published by The National Society of the Colonial Dames Of America in the State of Louisiana in 1952, the Gumbo File' recipe contains chicken and oysters.  (Also no Creole Trinity - seasoned with onion, thyme and parsley.)
To this day, many people in New Orleans use any and all combinations of poultry, sausage, meat and seafood in a pot of steaming gumbo.
We cannot look at a historic food such as gumbo with modern eyes.  The historic cookbooks are plentiful and they tell a very different story. TourCreole (talk) 14:20, 5 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chicken or Meat Along With Seafood 

message: I don't think so, do u Zzzsd (talk) 14:30, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Toxic 

message: A series of edits were made to include Mississippi and Alabama as states where gumbo is popular. I'm highly skeptical of that, so I'm reverting them. I think if we include references to consumption in the broader Southeast, we should emphasize that it is primarily a Louisiana food, and add sources for any states aside from Louisiana. To be honest, I see no reason why we shouldn't go back to the last version on November 2, 2017. 2601:84:8902:2970:AC4F:BBB6:21B:6884 (talk) 19:50, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alabama and Mississippi? 

message: Crayfish , or crawfish, are common in warmer states and New.Orleans recipes, especially gumbo, usually contain them. TaylorLeem (talk) 05:03, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Didn't mention Crayfish 

message: The stew must have okra in it to be called "okra." 2600:1700:53F2:290:A5EC:7BB5:1FCB:8E68 (talk) 21:58, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it actually doesn't. That's not how words work. They take on the meaning of whoever's using them, to mean whatever they meant when the person said them. Gumbo might mean okra, but it also means a Cajun/Creole dish that may or may not contain okra. Kronos o (talk) 07:10, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Gombo or Sauce Gombo is also still eaten in Africa, by the way, by its original name and preparation. It is where the dish comes from. People in the caribbean also have it. So it's not just "Cajun/Creole", just so you know. Its also Creole has more claims to it than Cajun, who borrowed the dish.  Researcherofgreatness (talk) 00:13, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Gumbo" means "okra."