Talk:Merthyr Tydfil

message: What is the source for the claim that Isengard of LOTR was inspired by Merthyr?
I was born and lived 30 years in MT and haven't heard this claim before.
--Robert Fraser 07:11, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Lord of The Rings?

message: I cleaned up the flow of the Coming of Christianity section.  It seemed to jump around a great deal and was confusing.  I split the naming legend and the King arthur reference to a Local Legends section, as these paragraphs did not seem to about the coming of Christianity in any way.  
I found the statement about the introduction of Christianity particularly confusing.  It seemed to be leading to imply that the Romans introduced Christianity, but the following statement about the Irish and French monks seemed to controvert this.  I could not find reference material that clarified who did introduce Christianity locally; so, I tried to clarify the langauge while presenting what appeared to be the meaning of the original paragraph.
I am not sure if the King Arthur legend should be referenced here at all.  I cannot find anything tying the legend to this town or region specifically, just the region.  I did not want to make the decision to remove this material; so, instead I added some details and clarifications and added a link to the Ambrosius Aurelianus page.  I considered adding refernces to the following: http://britannia.com/history/biographies/ambros.html and http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/FeaturesBritain/BritishAmbrosiusAurelianus.htm, but since this was already borderline off-topic, it didn't seem appropriate.
Enzym3 01:47, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Christianity and King Arthur

message: Should the list of "Primary schools/nurseries" be alphabetized?  And is Ysgol-y-Graig still open? It was in Cefn when I went there, but I guess Cefn is part of Merthyr now... Huw Powell (talk) 17:23, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Schools 

message: This section is underdeveloped and lacks some of the most basic facts of Merthyr Tydfil.  When was a permenant settlement founded here?  How big was it, when did fair start being held regularly?  Fairs generally denote a settlement has become regarded as a town this is important in the town's history, and the comment that they brough wealth to some and poverty to others needs justifying.
Anlbe (talk) 11:38, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Early Modern Merthyr Tydfil

message: "The steel and coal industries began to decline after World War One, and by the 1930’s, they had all closed." what had all closed by the 1930s? This sentence implies it is the steel and coal industries.
Anlbe (talk) 12:20, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  The decline of coal and iron 

message: I removed the 'league table' of school results because Estyn doesn't inspect schools annually, so the exam results cited won't necessarily be directly comparable. People may be aware that since 2001, the Assembly Government hasn't published individual school performance information. Information on individual schools is still available in prospectuses and governors’ annual reports, but adding them all together to produce a local league table may violate WP:SYNTH. I've been doing the same edit in numerous articles, however in this case I left the list of schools intact, since previous contributors seem to be intent on building a list of all local education providers. Pondle (talk) 23:43, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  School league table 

message: Hopefully someone can explain to me in simple terms that if Merthyr Tudful is Welsh, what langauge is Merthyr Tydfil or is it another Anglo invention that doesn't really mean anything?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.53.204.196 (talk) 16:24, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I think if you check back it was an attempt by the then Welsh civic leaders to come up with an authentic Welsh spelling, rather than the bastardised English version that had existed prior to that.  Unfortunately, they got it wrong.  A bit like your spelling of language really! Skinsmoke (talk) 21:55, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Merthyr Tudful/Merthyr Tydfil

message: The article has a lot of "Ranks 21st", "Ranks 13th worst", etc., without much explanation of what MT is being ranked among. My guess is that the positive rankings are among the 22 county-like entities of Wales, and the "worst" ones are among the county-like entities of Britain. But it is not clear. A statement would help. Maproom (talk) 14:18, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That whole section, although now cited, needs a complete rewrite.  A list of rankings is not the preferred format.  This needs rewriting into a coherent paragraph and expanding to give it some meaning. Skinsmoke (talk) 16:35, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Ranks

message: MTFC are now ground-sharing with Taff's Well FC (approx 15 miles from Merthyr), having been evicted from Penydarren Park in 2010  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.185.240.122 (talk) 18:47, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Merthyr Tydfil FC

message: Are you sure about this statement: "While testing a new angina treatment, researchers in Merthyr Tydfil discovered (purely by accident) that the new drug had erection-stimulating side effects. This discovery would go on to form the basis for Viagra.[9] " ?  Pfizer would say their people invented it in Sandwich, Kent.  The Wikipedia article on Viagra makes no mention of Merthyr.  --Mat Teja (talk) 10:17, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: This really needs a better source, but I have heard this fact before. The drug was not developed in Merthyr and no one claims that, but Merthyr has one of the worst illness levels in Britain, and a statistically high level of heart disease. Therefore it could well be that the developers had their best chance of finding their required sample group in the population of Merthyr. The story then goes that when the trial was over a vast number of men stated that they had lost or thrown out their excess tablets. When this was investigated further it was discovered that Viagra had a secondary function under which it is marketed today. FruitMonkey (talk) 10:50, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  A good firm source? Martinevans123 (talk) 12:27, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: That stands out. I'll pop it now. FruitMonkey (talk) 12:51, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

text: Great - it reads better now, and it is clearer that Merthyr people were not responsible for discovering or developing the active compound.  Thanks Mat Teja (talk) 11:17, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Viagra Discovery

message: Shouldn't this article actually be two?
Over the years, as facts have been added, some confusion seems to have arisen. Does the article refer to the town or the county borough? There are also references to the parliamentary constituencies, which already exist as different pages.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Caradog Llywelyn (talk • contribs) 12:49, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I tend to agree with you here - in fact there's already Caerphilly County Borough as an exemplar. It is confusing at the moment. The article is almost entirely about the town of Merthyr Tydfil, while the Infobox is about Merthyr Tyfdil County Borough. With areas like Cardiff, the county and the city are much the same thing, but in the case of Merthyr Tydfil the county borough includes more than the principal town. I would suggest a new article is created about the Merthyr Tydfil County Borough. Sionk (talk) 13:30, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Much improved, nice work! Sionk (talk) 17:37, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Town or County Borough 

message: What about the Merthyr Vale colliery, and the nearby Aberfan disaster? Valetude (talk) 23:59, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merthyr Vale? 

message: We have hit here upon a commonly occuring situation on English-language Wikipedia: the IPA transcription for the 'English' pronunciation for a Welsh place name is arbitrary and misleading. In this case, the cited English-langauge pronunciation is . The problem that immediately leaps out here is that it contains [r], and Merthyr is simply almost never pronounced rhotically (that is to say, with an 'r' sound, trilled or otherwise) in Wales or indeed the UK generally. How can we therefore lead with a pronunciation which doesn't actually exist?
It is the case that with Welsh place names, formed in and by the Welsh language, there is not really a single 'English' pronunciation. In the case of Merthyr, surely we should at least not state or imply that the 'English' pronunciation is rhotic? Llabbillob (talk) 10:45, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: It is cited, so there is evidence of those pronunciations, rather than WP:OR. I am aware, there are calls to mass-remove English pronunciations from Wikipedia. Raise a long discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Wales#English-language pronunciations, following similar edits concerning them. DankJae 10:54, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I accept that it is cited, but the citation is not correct: I think you'd agree that 'Merthyr' is not pronounced by English speakers with a trilled 'r', many of whom would not be familiar with the trilling of r altogether. The currently cited IPA states that in English, the /r/ is pronounced in 'Merthyr' - twice. Stating this is not original research: unless you can furnish evidence that speakers of English in the UK have rhotic accents (i.e., pronounce their r), then the currently cited IPA for the English is at best completely misleading. Llabbillob (talk) 10:59, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: @Llabbillob, Help:IPA/English states r there doesn't represent a trill.  DankJae 11:10, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: The cites provide audio files with no trill. So it doesn't seem they intended to say there is a trill. DankJae 11:12, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

text: The point still remains: that is only relevant to rhotic accents, of which there very few remaining in the UK (assuming that it is UK English that is being represented here). Do you accept, then, that speakers of English would pronounce the 'r's in 'Merthyr' in standard English? Llabbillob (talk) 11:12, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: This is the inconsistency that I have been referring to: the IPA given does not match what is encountered. See the pronunciation given by Collins, for example: https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/merthyr-tydfil. It is non-rhotic here, with no 'r's pronounced. Llabbillob (talk) 11:17, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: that's fair then, as long as its kept and cited. DankJae 11:22, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation