Talk:List of grand masters of the Knights Hospitaller

message: Why the statement that there is no source cited?  The main source is given in the External Links section.  Cosal 00:45, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [Untitled]

message: Three times in the last several days User:Principia1 has added the full baptismal names of Fra Andrew Bertie (i.e. listing him as "Andrew Willoughby Ninian Bertie").  In the case of other grand masters we only use multiple baptismal names if they are known this way (e.g. Giovanni Battista Ceschi a Santa Croce).  In the case of Ferdinand von Hompesch zu Bolheim we do not call him "Ferdinand Joseph Antoine Herman Louis von Hompesch zu Bolheim". Note also that Andrew Bertie signed his name just "Andrew Bertie".
User:Principia1 has never given an edit summary for this change.  When I have reverted, I have written "other GMs are only listed with multiple Christian names if that is the way they are generally known".
Can User:Principia1 explain why he insists on this peculiarity for Andrew Bertie? Noel S McFerran (talk) 12:45, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Full names should only be used when the individual is known by those names. Otherwise, they do not belong in this list but in the articles of the subjects themselves. I am behind Mr McFerran on this matter. Charles 20:49, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Full baptismal names 

message: Can someone please explain why Fra Giacomo dalla Torre,Lieutenant ad interim from February 7 - March 11 2008 has been removed from the list of Grand Masters? Thank you.(Principia1 (talk) 23:50, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fra Giacomo dalla Torre del Tempio di Sanguinetto 

message: The title and the content of the article leads to error.
According to the web page of every single leader of the order between 1803 (the last Grand Master) and 1905 (the last Lieutenant General), the leaders of the order between 1805 and 1879 were not Grand Masters but Lieutenant Generals, because they have been not appointed by the Pope (broadly speaking), but in the content of this article they are all showed as Grand Masters.
I think this article need a clarification in the content, adding the corrrect titles between 1805 and 1879, and in the title of the article itself, which should be changed to "Leaders of the Knights Hospitaller".
I personally added two succession boxes in the article of Giovanni Battista Ceschi a Santa Croce, but changing the title of the page, I think, needs a little bit more discussion.
--Albert (talk) 14:47, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lieutenant Generals versus Grand Masters 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion 

message: The numbering is a mess. The "official" current numbering is entirely based on websites.
They may be "official websites", but the lists are undated and without indication of who made them, they may as well be based on Wikipedia.
Actual publications of numbered lists of Grand Masters in the 18th century seem to be pretty consistent, 
they do not count Gerard, but they do count Caracciolo (32nd).
Lists published in the 19th century are all over the place, some of them count Lieutenants, some do not count Caracciolo,
most do count Gerard, etc. There is no clean way of giving a Wikipedia-endorsed system of numbering.
I used Morris (1884) at first, which has the advantage of being a scholarly but secular source. This source counts Gerard as 1st, does not include Caracciolo, so that von Hompesch is 70th.
But I see now that this is in no way the only modern convention, so that I suggest numbering has to be given up altogether, in exchange for a dedicated section discussing the various conventions used historically. 
It is very unfortunate that numbering has been included in category names on commons, e.g. ":commons:Category:Manuel Pinto de Fonseca (GM 68)"
Pinto is given the number 67 explicitly in :commons:File:Emmanuelle Pinto.jpg, a portrait apparently published around 1775, and apprarently reprinted in 1962 (and again 2005), but without proper identification of a source.
The 1726 portraits also include explicit numbers, e.g. :File:Fabrice Carrette.jpg is labelled 42nd (Quarante Deuxieme Gr. M.), and his category is still named :commons:Category:Fabrizio del Carretto (GM 43). 
If numbering is used in the articles, we can at least require that the number used must be that used during the rule of the GM in question, i.e. the 18th-century GMs can be given the numbers they themselves used, with references. 
This concerns GM from about nr. 50 onward, earlier ones did not number themselves at all. --dab (𒁳) 11:58, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Numbering

message: There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Sovereign Military Order of Malta which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RMCD bot 18:00, 19 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move discussion in progress 

message: I have today removed the false statements that the title of prince was only granted in 1880.  These statements seem to be based on the title of the Grand Master used on coins.  It may be interesting to note how a grand master was referred to a coinage, but this is not determinative of his actual titles.  Over the next few weeks I plan to remove the other statements in this list which are also only based on coins. Noel S McFerran (talk) 02:15, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Princes and coins