Talk:Demographics of Greece

message: 100,000-200,000 Slavic speakers in Macedonia! Come on! :) Statistics like that make Helsinki Monitor untrustworthy. Maybe in that statistic people who know the word "voda" are considered Slavic speakers.
I suppose there are 100,000-200,000 people who's grandparents where Slavic speakers, but no way so many spekers nowadays. --Mik2 19:09, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: What makes you think that this estimate is unlikely? Boraczek 10:22, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

text: Thank you, Mik2. I know for sure there are some (not many) autochthonous Slavic speakers  in Thessaloniki perfecture and Ethnologue also reports the presence of Slavic speakers in Kastoria perfecture. Nonetheless, I have to say that your argument is very convincing. Best regards. Boraczek 20:07, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes in Kastoria there are slavic speakers too. There are a few slavic speaking vilages there. And in Serres also I think there are a few, but i am not sure about that. In Thessaloniki its sure that there used to be speakers too. Maybe a lot. But I don't know if there are any now. I've heard that they exist in some vilages near Thessaloniki, but even thouth I live in Thessaloniki, I've never heard anyone speaking that language there. But in a 1 million people city maybe they are just too few to notice. Or maybe they are some very old people, that rarely go out of their vilages and speak slavic only at home. --Mik2 21:48, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

text: I would like to encourage other editors to review DaveHM's comment thoroughly, as I find it to be a significantly better starting point for serious discussion about how to improve this article than I have seen up until this point.  I would also like to point out Talk:Greece where a similar issue is being discussed.  Jkelly 20:12, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  DaveHM puts this "issue" on its true basis. GHM is not respected in Greece because its claims are so over the top that it is obvious they serve some other purpose than the truth. And here's the most obvious proof: After every such claim of 200,000 Slavic speakers, the Greek government has urged all Slavic speakers to come out and identify themselves as such in the census! Guess what, they could hardly register 1000 persons. GHM cry wolf and with its tactics have lost every credibility. This can only harm their own cause, because when they speak about real issues nobody takes them seriously. --Avg 04:46, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: 100,000-200,000 Slavic speakers in Macedonia

message: I didn't understand from the article whether there is ethnic similarity between the ethnic Greeks of today and the Greeks of the classical period?  If so, does this similarity have scientific proof (D.N.A)?
In other words, are the current Greeks direct descendants of the Ancients, holding genetic similarity? Tal :) 14:01, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think the article addresses this issue, and proving a genetic link between modern and ancient Greeks would require testing every person individually. Personally, I doubt there's an unbroken chain, although the Greek language has been spoken continuously in present-day Greece for the past three millenia, so there is some continuity between ancient and modern Greece. --Tēlex 15:09, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  A question 

message: See my comment above, editted one month before... --Hectorian 17:08, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of a section 

message: I looked under ethnic groups minorities and I laughed so hard I pissed my self. Russians? Albanians? Georgians? This articles is listing immigrants who came to Greece the past 11 years ago as ethnic minorities. What kind of bullshit is this? If thats the case why don't you add the 30.000 Pakis, Nigerians, Filipino and other legal and illegal workers under "ethnic minorities" and then go to the United states make up and add Mexican ethnic minority, and make an article about the ethnic Greek minority of New York and the American occupation of Astoria NY and the historic city of Greek town in Chicago.. LOL Clowns, as a wikipedia reader I expect this stupidity to be corrected... ASAP.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.53.224.61 (talk) 03:50, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments round two

message: I check pages listed in :Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of :Demographics of Greece's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "OECD":
From Macedonia naming dispute: *
From Greeks in the United Kingdom: 
From Greece: 
From Health care in Greece: 
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 00:11, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orphaned references in [[:Demographics of Greece]] 

message: 1) In the paragraph about ethnic groups , it is used as a link this site: https://joshuaproject.net/. I removed Arvanites from the list of ethnic groups because, the previous writter did not use the given information as the link is concerned.  If someone notice carefully at the site ,Arvanites are be noticed as a Indigenous People group.link:https://joshuaproject.net/countries/GR So, we cannot put them in a list with other ethnic groups like Bulgarians,Indians,Egyptians etc. We have to understand that there is a diference between these two terms.We don't have to confuse the indigenous groups which are native and they have totally ethnic conscience with the foreign ethic groups.
2) I removed totally the passage from the link  Minority Rights Group beacause it is not a certified organization ,thus it is not reliable and it can not be a resaurce. 
3) Arvanitika is with no doubt an oral dialect. There are not documents which can prove the language's existing.So all the information we have about this dialect , is empirical or derives from empirical case studies. So it is frequently argued that we can not confuse this dialect with other foreign languages that are spoken in Greece.If someone thinks that has official data or  meticulous numbers about the people who speak this dialect he may be Pythea and he surely has diviner's abilities.Unless he have to do with someone who wants to pervert and mislead the readers of wikipedia. Thus, I removed this dialect from the list of other languages because it is not literally and scientifically correct. The dialect was replaced to the list native languages. 
Dear readers , there is no one document,or reliable link to prove that there is an  ethnic group  as Arvanites.It is irresponsible to be shown by this free site those irreliable information. It is a common belief that it is out obligation to inform correctly without misleadings a major percent of our society by writting a post.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.66.243.122 (talk) 08:43, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Important changes and explanation

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090206090424/http://www.statistics.gr/gr_tables/S1101_SAP_09_TB_DC_01_10_Y.pdf to http://www.statistics.gr/gr_tables/S1101_SAP_09_TB_DC_01_10_Y.pdf
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: To the editors keep blanking the statistics - you keep edit-warring after you had been asked to explain your removal. I have already attempted to use the talk page but my comment was deleted. You continue to edit-war and long edit-warring without any attempt to discuss is DISRUPTIVE. Judist (talk) 11:08, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussion 

message: User:199.7.157.82 is changing statistics and doesn't seem to know that other Wikipedia articles are not regarded as reliable sources on Wikipedia. I have reverted his changes a few times. User doesn't seem to want to take his issues to the talkpage. He has been asked to do so repeatedly. We have a worrying amount of conflicts like this going on in Macedoniain Greek controversies at the time. Please take your issue here!Gerard von Hebel (talk) 22:48, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: No, will you explain your case here now and stop reverting? Gerard von Hebel (talk) 03:00, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

text: What dead links to primary sources do you mean, Macedonian, a Greek? Gerard von Hebel (talk) 20:21, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I mean the links to the primary sources which Minority Rights Group International points at, under "Peoples" section. They are dead. Macedonian, a Greek (talk) 09:21, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

text: The content has been removed per WP:NOR, plus as carrying an unwarranted disclaimer. See WP:NODISCLAIMERS. , I can only understand the stats that have been added to be considered WP:ITSIMPORTANT as being WP:PPOV. If you have reliable secondary sources to bring to the table, please do so. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 21:56, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: There is nothing wrong to point out the obvious, even more if it has been given as a note and not in the body of the article! It simply clarifies things. Macedonian, a Greek (talk) 09:21, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

text: No, Wikipedia has hundreds of articles with dead links. These are only dead links to the footnoted references used for the "Peoples" section. The actual content remains, and there is no doubt that it's a reliable source. Please read WP:KDL. For long standing content, it is assumed in good faith that the citations were checked. Just because you can't check the citations, it does not mean that they were verified. If you have doubts, it's unfortunate because WP:BURDEN was already met. Adding disclaimers of this kind does not comply with WP:NPOV as such an addition implies to the reader that the source is tainted. As a source in itself, minorityrights.org has already interpreted any primary sources it may have used, making the text in the "Peoples" section WP:SECONDARY (i.e., they've already set up a short analysis of their own for the reader). If this were a printed text, you'd only be provided with the names of primary sources used and interpreted by the the RS. It would not automatically give you access to the sources used. In fact, for a multitude of subjects tackled on Wikipedia, it would be unlikely that editors would be able to access, or begin to understand primary and secondary sources used. We may as well add disclaimers of the ilk you introduced to nearly every source for every article: we can't vouch for the technical knowledge of all authors interpreting any original sources... --Iryna Harpy (talk) 06:19, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Change of statistics 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090225223906/http://www.ethnologue.com:80/14/show_language.asp?code=BLG to http://www.ethnologue.com/14/show_language.asp?code=BLG
*Corrected formatting/usage for https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2091.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131225192921/http://www.statistics.gr/portal/page/portal/ESYE/BUCKET/General/nws_SAM01_EN.PDF to http://www.statistics.gr/portal/page/portal/ESYE/BUCKET/General/nws_SAM01_EN.PDF
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: In this article there's a link to "Minority Rights Group International" where a group of immigrants is labeled 'minority'. If groups of immigrants are to be considered minorities that should be true about all of them, not just Albanians. In the article 'Demographics of Germany' they don't even mention minorities (just recognized minority languages). Apostolos Papadimitriou (talk) 19:04, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Aromanians, Romani people, Arvanites etc. are not immigrants but local minorities in Greece. Jingiby (talk) 06:20, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Are immigrants "minorities"?

message: I have reinstated the text according to the sources (and made som minor corrections).
*Calling "Greek Helsinki Monitor" dubious and removing the Ministry of Foreign Affairs source is disruptive. They are used to source the point of view of the Greek authorities, and are clearly relevant. I have adjusted the number from 97,605 to 98,000 (according to the source) and removed the percentage, which is irrelevant (and not in the source). Also I have corrected GEEK to GREEK(!)
*I have reinserted the number 100,000-200,000 (0.91-1.82%) in the list. That is what the source says. I know that it may be controversial, which has been the reason for giving an alternative estimate, but since the source is quoted (with percentages) for all other groups, you cannot choose to remove the number form teh source. This seems to be a clear case of WP:IDLI. --T*U (talk) 20:17, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please stick to the sources 

message: As I explained the last time you removed the numbers 100,000-200,000 (0.91-1.82%) in February, this is what the source says, the source being Minority Rights Group International, currently note 24 in the article. I also pointed to the source in my edit summary yesterday, and still you claim that "This is not supported anywhere in the source". If you would you be so kind to look at the source, you will see that all the numbers in the table are from that source. I am fully aware that the high number for ethnic Macedonians is controversial, and that is also the reason for giving an alternative estimate. The source is quoted (with percentages) for all other groups, therefore you cannot choose to replace one of the numbers with another source. That is at best syntehsis, which is not allowed in Wikipedia. Bringing in another source for the lower number is, of course, fine. --T*U (talk) 11:56, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please stick to the sources – again 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Wikipedia is supposed to be an encyclopedia. No matter what governments decide, we all know that 'Macedonian' is a word applicable only to Greeks. Therefore, saying 'Macedonian' minority when there's an ACTUAL Macedonian (Greek) population is at least misleading and confusing.  Onoufrios d (talk) 19:16, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Despite Greece's ludicrous copyright infringement claims against Macedonia, the rest of the world commonly uses "Macedonia" and "Macedonians" to refer to the Slavic country and population of the country just north of Greece called "Macedonia".  --Taivo (talk) 22:46, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Macedonian" language and minority 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: I find that the Newsweek article numbered "31" in references is kinda biased when it comes to understanding the situation of minorities in Greece. It is very much identical to many Macedonian propaganda articles that want to present Greece as an ethnostate of some sort. I think this is also especially true when it comes to the rhetoric the the person uses regarding the naming of Macedonia that is severely  biased against Greece. At a point the person being interviewed even tries to compare the Macedonia naming dispute to Luxemburg with Beligium as if those two are in any way similar. Anyway I am no expert on this but more often than not I see more and more questionable articles popping that push more and more of the Macedonian viewpoint while misrepresenting Greece. I definitely don't think Greece is on the right in quite a few topics in regards to minorities but I also certainly don't see merit in pushing ignorant POV's in such complicated matters. I would be glad if someone was to look into the article and determine if it is appropriate. Lmagoutas (talk) 08:55, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Newsweek article 

message: Who is the source about deaths and birth about 2023 statistics? Alex1991~elwiki (talk) 06:38, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vital statistics