Talk:English Suites (Bach)

message: The first english suite is in F Major, correct it!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.42.79.243 (talk) 14:02, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The keys are correct, but the order of them does not relate to any note sequences in the chorale "Jesu, meine Freude".. first of all there are no F naturals in the chorale (it's in e minor). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Itsallaroundyou (talk • contribs) 06:42, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The first English Suite is not in F Major, it's in A major!!!!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.170.242.161 (talk) 20:13, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Error 

message: Why is this in the "See also" list? The English suites are not on that page. When were these works first published, anyway? Schissel | Sound the Note! 15:54, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Bach compositions printed during the composer's lifetime" 

message: === Topic and background ===
In the neighboured article, there is a paragraph which carefully stated some historical debates and relative research results, in terms of whom Bach's English suits were written in remembrance of:
'Bach's English Suites display less affinity with Baroque English keyboard style than do the French Suites to French Baroque keyboard style; the name "English" is thought to date back to a claim made by the 19th-century Bach biographer Johann Nikolaus Forkel that these works might have been composed for an English nobleman, but no evidence has emerged to substantiate this claim.[citation needed] It has also been suggested that the name is a tribute to Charles Dieupart, whose fame was greatest in England, and on whose Six Suittes de clavessin Bach's English Suites were in part based'
This discussion is possible to be further shifted into Talk, for the expressions of users' ideas with the freedom.
=== Commons' thoughts ===
Jason's idea:
This piece motivated up my great interests
As a piano teacher and bilingually cultural post-learner, from the view of keyboard's fingering approach in practices and the daily operations of education practices and the reasonable imaginations with musicality, I would like to give another possibility of musical reasonability:
Rather than understanding its creation as for certain special nobleman or a historical master with full  literacies, as one from commons, it's better that we would make a understandable analogy in practices, and carry a sense as to appreciate some scenes of royal ceremonies alongside the procedure of our keyboard-techniques' trainings, such as welcoming some foreign leaders and diplomats etc., cherishing beauties of English culture and customs when Square-based Ceremonies were hold for all the commons in which Queen and us can together feel the joyfulness, or watching New Year's Day Talks on TV or online, or some others. The reason is: In English Suites, such as the prelude of Third English Suite, we can play out and hear huge some versions of royal military band and honor guards, then some stylized and procedural patterns were repeated, developing and recycling time after time, with baroque ornamentations, modeled counterpointes, fixed polyphonic dialogues, similar motifs and structuralized solutions. I think, if it was written for certain clear historical identity, the scenes shouldn't be described so huge and with so many repeated and standardized  'curtains' one by one. To commons, only in some huge national festivals and square-based matches, we can see and share some festival procedures organized step by step. 
Furthermore, to composers' nature, they usually wouldn't say out whom a piece was really written for but generalized several historical imageries and their characteristics from various different persons and events together to form one abstracted theme - that's to say - without clearly telling us what particular person or event they were writing for. But, if coming to English formal life style or somewhat with the most baroque-senses in Bach's era which can be mostly kept till today, I thought a generalized ceremony with royal life styles or stylized scenes would be a better symbolized representation. 
Then, with this musical imagination, we go to classify, organize, formalize and specialize keyboard-techniques, treated some special ornamentations (such as 3:2 trills), some standardized gestures of hands & some for body's, and some　impromptu presentations for sound-effects. We can appreciate our own 'golden performances', even only on our own keyboards, as from a small common's. Therefore, a 'generalized' musical impression of English noble (or Royal) life style and a idealist palace-ized (or Royal Court-ized) imagination would be Bach's another possibly reasonable dream. This idea from instrumental practices, which need some supports.
Further developing zone from Educational Research: English Suites, as from generalized impression for English nobleman or customs, should have some more distinguishable characteristics in standardized structure as 'Dancing Suites' from English language, life fashion and customs, such as two paragraphs(rooms)nested as one whole ball suite (dancing theme). Otherwise, why did Bach give single title of these works as 'English Suites', rather than 'France Suites' or 'France style English suites' or 'Partitas'? Here, we can think and explore more evidences from the nature of Work-structure Analysis.
Jason M. C., Han (talk) 12:59, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  The discussion of whom English Suites were written in remembrance of (Wiki-interest)

message: Jason's idea:
This piece motivated up my great interests
As a piano teacher and bilingually cultural post-learner, from the view of keyboard's fingering approach in practices and the daily operations of education practices and the reasonable imaginations with musicality, I would like to give another possibility of musical reasonability:
Rather than understanding its creation as for certain special nobleman or a historical master with full  literacies, as one from commons, it's better that we would make a understandable analogy in practices, and carry a sense as to appreciate some scenes of royal ceremonies alongside the procedure of our keyboard-techniques' trainings, such as welcoming some foreign leaders and diplomats etc., cherishing beauties of English culture and customs when Square-based Ceremonies were hold for all the commons in which Queen and us can together feel the joyfulness, or watching New Year's Day Talks on TV or online, or some others. The reason is: In English Suites, such as the prelude of Third English Suite, we can play out and hear huge some versions of royal military band and honor guards, then some stylized and procedural patterns were repeated, developing and recycling time after time, with baroque ornamentations, modeled counterpointes, fixed polyphonic dialogues, similar motifs and structuralized solutions. I think, if it was written for certain clear historical identity, the scenes shouldn't be described so huge and with so many repeated and standardized  'curtains' one by one. To commons, only in some huge national festivals and square-based matches, we can see and share some festival procedures organized step by step. 
Furthermore, to composers' nature, they usually wouldn't say out whom a piece was really written for but generalized several historical imageries and their characteristics from various different persons and events together to form one abstracted theme - that's to say - without clearly telling us what particular person or event they were writing for. But, if coming to English formal life style or somewhat with the most baroque-senses in Bach's era which can be mostly kept till today, I thought a generalized ceremony with royal life styles or stylized scenes would be a better symbolized representation. 
Then, with this musical imagination, we go to classify, organize, formalize and specialize keyboard-techniques, treated some special ornamentations (such as 3:2 trills), some standardized gestures of hands & some for body's, and some　impromptu presentations for sound-effects. We can appreciate our own 'golden performances', even only on our own keyboards, as from a small common's. Therefore, a 'generalized' musical impression of English noble (or Royal) life style and a idealist palace-ized (or Royal Court-ized) imagination would be Bach's another possibly reasonable dream. This idea from instrumental practices, which need some supports.
Further developing zone from Educational Research: English Suites, as from generalized impression for English nobleman or customs, should have some more distinguishable characteristics in standardized structure as 'Dancing Suites' from English language, life fashion and customs, such as two paragraphs(rooms)nested as one whole ball suite (dancing theme). Otherwise, why did Bach give single title of these works as 'English Suites', rather than 'France Suites' or 'France style English suites' or 'Partitas'? Here, we can think and explore more evidences from the nature of Work-structure Analysis.
Jason M. C., Han (talk) 12:59, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Commons' thoughts