Talk:Greenwich Village

message: The "citation needed" by the "Friends" building is absurd. I know Wikipedia likes citations on text, but the photo shows that this IS the building from the show and everybody can also see it live in the Village... so let's not be so absurd with citations.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.254.235.169 (talk) 00:46, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: one "citation needed" is absurd

message: I fleshed out the "History" section (for example, differentiated between the Beat movement and the later folk movement (Bob Dylan), as well as rearranged some of the wordings to make sentences clearer.--PolPotPie 00:29, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: unsorted topics

message: I was born and raised in "the village" (right smack in the middle, neither East nor West), and am a 4th generation native-born Manhattanite.  I have never once heard "West Village" used to mean "all of the village".  There is no way anyone familiar with the neighborhood would cite, say, Washington Square Park as being in the West Village.  This portion of the entry is incorrect
161.185.1.100 20:37, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for pointing that out.  Feel free to edit the article and make the change, as well as any other improvements. -Aude (talk | contribs) 20:39, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Village vs. West Village 

message: OK, I'm slightly confused by the differences between
"(The) Village",
"East Village",
"West Village", and
"Greenwich Village". Could someone clarify this? Currently there's a contradiction of definitions. In the Japanese Wikipedia article (which I want to update), it says "the Village = West + Greenwich + East Villages", while the English Wikipedia article says "the Village = Greenwich Village", while "West Village" is left undefined.—Tokek 08:43, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request clarification of Villages 

message: I think maybe I'm the person being referred to as "irate" (which I'm not, so forgive me if my tone suggested otherwise) so maybe I can clarify or confuse things further.
As I said, I was born and raised there, so this is the source of my authority, FWIW.  In my experience, most long-term residents and natives understand "the village" to mean the superset, i.e. everything between Houston and 14th Street.  Some people, though, view the "East Village" as being a distinct neighborhood, with some dispute about its western boundary.  Some say Broadway, some say the Bowery, some say it depends on latitude.  For instance, 4th Ave is east of Broadway, but its feel has always been pretty different from, say, St. Marks Pl.  Lots of peope would think of, say 4th Ave and 9th St. as "the Village", and not the "East Village".  There's no "official" answer to these conundrums (as there would be with, say borough boundaries, community districts, and police precincts, all of which were established by official legislative processes) because neighborhoods have no official meaning in New York City.  They're just commonly (mis)understood areas.  For pretty much any nabe in the city, there's disagreement about its borders, whether it's really part of something else, etc.
M@rēino wrote: 
"The problem is that, historically, Greenwich Village only went as far east as Broadway (which is where 4th Ave would be in this part of town)."
FWIW, Broadway is not the equivalent of 4th Ave -- 4th Ave is (above Astor Place); Lafayette St. is below Astor Pl.  Park Ave was originally called 4th Ave (before Madison Ave was built and confused everybody a bit more).
How old is "East Village"; Lower East Side vs. East Village -- the term "East Village" is definitely older than the 80s.  For instance, there was a well known literary/bohemian newspaper in the 60s called the East Village Other.  Also, I'm pretty sure you'll find the term used by a number of Beat writers (e.g., Ginsburg, and Kerouac, though I don't have specific references).  I think it's fair to say that at some point, "Lower East Side" included what today would be thought of as the East Village, and that the distinction between the two probably first appeared post-war.  My immigrant forebears wouldn't have thought of their north-of-Houston tenements as any part of the village.  In my youth, the East Village was where hippie/boho/outsider white people lived.  The Lower East side was where Puerto Ricans (and dwindling numbers of Jews) lived.  Houston St. was sort of the dividing line, but really the distinction was more cultural/ethnic than geographic.
As someone who works for city government and deals extensively with geography and geopolitical boundary issues, I think that 
"Here's where it gets nasty: the city government now considers EVERYTHING between Houston & 14th to be Greenwich Village"
overstates things.  I'm sure there are some documents and publications that present the Village this way for some narrow governental purposes.  However, city government doesn't "officially" define neighborhoods (which don't really have any official meaning or status).  Generally, city gov tries to map neighborhood boundaries where it thinks most New Yorkers would put them; it probably gets this stuff wrong a good percentage of the time.
Southern boundary of Greenwich Village - Contrary to what seems to be popular perception, the 1956 edition of Encyclopedia Britanica states that the southern border of Greenwich Village is Spring Street.  Spring Street is two blocks south of Houston Street.  While it is presently accepted that the "Greenwich Village" and "Chelsea" districts of New York derive their names from similarly named places in London's metropolitan area, it is claimed that New York's "Soho" was not named after London's Soho.  It is claimed that New York's Soho was named solely for it's position "South of Houston".  If Britanica is correct, it seems that the southern boundary of the village was moved in order to justify Soho's name.ADeC (talk) 16:08, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  East vs West vs "The" Village 

message: The old map is great to have, but I'm having trouble figuring out which roads correspond to modern city streets. Can anyone layout perhaps where the central part of the village was back in, say, 1730 and what's there now? Thank you! --Jolomo 00:07, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Historical main roads? 

message: Any objection to me scrapping the "famous residents" section of this page and replacing it with a category? --M@rēino 20:58, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've renamed it to the softer-sounding "Notable residents." I like the idea of just directing to a list but, typically, these kinds of section headings should still have some prose (even as simple as, "Several notable individuals have resided in Greenwich Village, including many writers, politicians, musicians..." or something). --Midnightdreary 15:55, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  famous residents 

message: I was confused when I was reading the Greenwich Village page. The some information was out of place, and, thus, made it the page somewhat hard to comprehend. I rearranged some of it and it would be nice if others reread the page and could help further organize it. Hpfa1 05:39, 6 February 20072008 (UTC)
*So just to be clear -- you were not removing or adding any information, just rearranging it?  If so, I'll give you my support.  There's nothing wrong with trying a new format to see if it works out.  --M@rēino 23:14, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Organization

message: "Ironically, what provided the initial attractive character of the community eventually contributed to its gentrification and commercialization" that's not ironic, unless one deems gentrification and commercialization as a negative aspect of the community, which it is not.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.186.170.167 (talk) 14:44, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gentrification and commercialization ironic? 

message: The category :Category:People from Greenwich Village, New York (recently deleted and now reinstated) contained the following before deletion (and now has 32).
# :Abbie Hoffman
# :Albert Pinkham Ryder
# :Allen Ginsberg
# :Amel Larrieux
# :Amy Sedaris
# :Anna Wintour
# :Barbara Pierce Bush
# :Bob Dylan
# :Dave Van Ronk
# :David Blue
# :Delmore Schwartz
# :Dorothy Canning Miller
# :Dylan Thomas
# :E. E. Cummings
# :Edgar Allan Poe
# :Edgard Varèse
# :Edna St. Vincent Millay
# :Edward Hopper
# :Eric Andersen
# :Eugene O'Neill
# :Floyd Dell
# :Frank O'Hara
# :Franz Kline
# :Gregory Corso
# :Guido Bruno
# :Gwyneth Paltrow
# :Hans Hofmann
# :Harry Everett Smith
# :Hart Crane
# :Heath Ledger
# :Henry James
# :Izzy Young
# :Jack Kerouac
# :Jackson Pollock
# :Jane Jacobs
# :Jeff Buckley
# :Jim and Jean
# :Jim Glover
# :Jimi Hendrix
# :Joan Baez
# :John LaFarge
# :John Lennon
# :John Reed (journalist
# :John Taylor Johnston
# :Lou Reed
# :Mabel Dodge Luhan
# :Marcel Duchamp
# :Margaret Sanger
# :Max Eastman
# :Michael Penn
# :Phil Ochs
# :Robert De Niro, Sr.
# :Robert Lopez
# :Robert Motherwell
# :Romany Marie
# :Sarah Jessica Parker
# :Thomas Wolfe
# :Tom Paxton
# :Tuli Kupferberg
# :Virginia Admiral
# :Willa Cather
# :Willem de Kooning
# :Yoko Ono
-- roundhouse0 (talk) 13:21, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Category 

message: I entered this area by googling Don Ameche.  Found him and went to th elist of all his movies and clicked on Greenwich Village (1944).  For whatever reason, it brought me to a history of the actual area and there is nothing on the page that has to do with the movie, its characters and actors, music, etc.  There is a bad link or someone has edited out the data on the movie.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.39.23.33 (talk) 16:24, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help - I'm trying to find the actors to the 1944 movie:  Greenwich Village 

message: Gigante Did not live in Geenwich Village - he lived in two homes, with two families - with his wife and their five children in New Jersey, and  in a town house on the exclusive Upper East Side: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2003/mar/27/ukcrime.health?commentpage=1
Gigante, 74, has been boss of the Genovese organised crime family of New York since the mid-1980s. It was an extraordinary reign, characterised by duplicity: he lived in two homes, with two families - with his wife and their five children in New Jersey, and with his mistress and their three children in a town house on the exclusive Upper East Side.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mynameisstanley (talk • contribs) 17:05, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Gigante also lived at home with his mother Yolanda Gigante on La Guardia Place in Greenwich Village. Strolls in Robe Notwithstanding, Mob Figure Must Stand Trial, The New York Times, August 29, 1996 - Mafia Expert (talk) 17:49, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

text: Today? Vincent Gigante passed away in 2005: Vincent Gigante, Mafia Leader Who Feigned Insanity, Dies at 77. - Mafia Expert (talk) 02:20, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

text: Vincent Gigante grew up on the same streets in Greenwich Village where he would spend most of his adult life. Vincent Gigante, Mafia Leader Who Feigned Insanity, Dies at 77 He was born and raised there. Whether in later life he actually lived there or not, is not the point. He spent most of his days in Greenwich Village and was a characteristic figure wandering the streets in his bathrobe and slippers, mumbling incoherently to himself. That this was an elaborate act is also not the point: he acted it out in Greenwich Village. All in all, I think it deserves to be mentioned in an article on Greenwih Village. If you think it does not belong under 'Present day', put it under 'History' or – maybe – in 'In fiction and drama'. - Mafia Expert (talk) 13:50, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gigante Did not live in Geenwich Village 

message: Cool it already. Stop the WP:EDITWAR. You both have violated WP:3RR policy and can be blocked. Take it here: Wikipedia:Dispute resolution if you can't work it out here. Modernist (talk) 10:32, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you, lets resolve the dispute there over the next day or so....Modernist (talk) 02:42, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Edit War

message: I have requested page protection to lock editing on the article.  Please calmly and professionally discuss this issues here as team mates.  Thanks, NonvocalScream (talk) 04:59, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page protection 

message: I think some proof should be given of a Dutch origin of Greenwich or remove that statement altogether.  I changed probably to possibly, because without proof no way can one support the definite statement.  Myself I don't think it is Dutch as New Amsterdam went nowhere near far North enough to include Greenwich Village.--Amedeo Felix (talk) 12:53, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin of Greenwich name 

message: Book from 1939: Change the world! , p. 48: The chorus appears, dressed in another variation of gold and silver; some humor about homosexuals in a Greenwich Village scene .... --Franz (Fg68at) de:Talk 05:59, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Just a history hint 

message: Can we get a map of where Greenwich village is in relation to other neighborhoods in Manhatten? Michael Kirschner (talk) 00:35, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request map 

message: I'm not sure what exactly the boundaries are of the village and the west village, but the article can't be right in that it says 7th ave. is the western boundary of the village, and then says that the west village is the portion of the village west of 7th.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.112.109.225 (talk) 17:56, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Village boundaries 

message: (From the article Josh White:)
"It is impossible to divorce Josh White's unprecedented rise to international fame in the 1940s from the Cafe Society nightclub. Located in New York's Greenwich Village, the Cafe Society was the first integrated nightclub in the United States, where blacks and whites could sit, socialize and dance in the same room and enjoy entertainment. It opened in late 1938 with a three-month engagement of Fletcher Henderson's Orchestra, Billie Holiday and comedian Jack Gilford, immediately making it New York's hottest club.
One day, John Hammond asked White to meet Barney Josephson, the owner of the club. As soon as Josephson heard White and saw the charisma he exuded, he told Hammond that White was going to become the first black male sex symbol in America. It was Josephson who decided at that first encounter, on the stage apparel he would have designed for White - that would become a trademark for years to come - a black velvet shirt open to the stomach and silk slacks. While starring at the Cafe Society over the next decade and becoming exposed to audiences, performers and beautiful music from around the world, White expanded his musical interests and repertoire to include a variety of styles which he would then subsequently record. He had remarkable success in popularizing recordings with a diverse group of musical genres, which ranged from his original repertoire of the Negro blues, gospel and protest songs, to Broadway show tunes, cabaret, pop, and white American, English and Australian folk songs.
The Greenwich Village club was so successful that Josephson soon opened a larger Cafe Society Uptown, at which White also performed, gaining him recognition by the New York Times as the "Darling of Fifth Avenue". The Roosevelt family, New York society, international royalty, and Hollywood stars regularly came to see White at the Cafe Society, and he used his fame and visibility to create, foster and develop relations between blacks and whites, making him a national figure and voice of racial integration in America.
He was thought to have numerous romantic liaisons with wealthy society women, singers, and Hollywood actresses, but the rumors were never substantiated. The women in question always referred to White as their close friend, and Lena Horne and Eartha Kitt also referred to him as a mentor.
The Cafe Society made White a star and put him in a unique position as an African American man. However, because of the club's unique social status of mixing the races, it also became a haven for New York's social progressives whose politics leaned to the Left. As it played a vital role in White's ascendance to stardom, it would also one day play a crucial role in his fall from grace."
If Cafe Society was located in Greenwich Village, shouldn't it be mentioned in this article, maybe a whole section about Cafe Society, considering the great importance Cafe Society had on the process of integrating afro-americans into the white society and the importance Cafe Society had as a meeting place for many musicians of all races and social and political activists? Roger491127 (talk) 21:13, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Added the Cafe, thanks...Modernist (talk) 22:47, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: At the Cafe Society

message: Any discussion of Greenwich Village is not complete without mention its central role in the Broadway Musical Wonderful Town staring Rosalind Russell.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.16.5.208 (talk) 03:12, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Broadway theater and Greenwich Village 

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replies: text: I checked the above links but unfortunately, Cyberbot just added archived copies of two 404 "page not found" pages. I have notified the bot owner of the issue.  I will also fix the links manually if possible with older archived copies.  TheBlinkster (talk) 15:24, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: http://news.yahoo.com/centuries-old-burial-vaults-found-beneath-nyc-street-172926241.html November 2015. Has anyone else heard about this? Where exactly on the campus was this found? Do you think it deserves a mention in the article (or one of the connecting articles)? --RThompson82 (talk) 01:33, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pair of crypts discovered at NYU Greenwich Village campus 

message: As shown by the category "People from Greenwich Village", there are a lot of folks who were notable in past eras, many of whom are still notable today, who lived in the Village.  Yet, the "notable residents" list on this page seems to just include recent people. I can see needing to feature a selective list on the article page, but a list that's so heavy on recent people seems to be ignoring the history of the neighborhood.  Any thoughts on or objection to restructuring the list so it's got a few more of the residents from the past?  Everybody will also still be in the overall category. TheBlinkster (talk) 05:59, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why are all the "notable residents" so contemporary? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The Sing Sing article says "The expression 'up the river' to describe someone in prison or heading to prison derives from the practice of sentencing people convicted in New York City to serve their terms in Sing Sing. The prison is literally up the Hudson River from the city. The slang expression dates from 1891."  The Greenwich Village article says "being sentenced to Newgate became known as being 'sent up the river', an expression which carried over when it was replaced by the new Sing Sing Prison in Ossining, New York."  (Newgate closed in 1829.)  Either it originally referred to Newgate and is much older than 1891, or it dates only to 1891 and always referred to Sing Sing.  Either the Sing Sing article is wrong about the origin and the date or the Greenwich Village article is wrong about the origin and the carry over.47.139.43.80 (talk) 05:04, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: The Sing Sing article is wrong. According to this book it was in use at least in 1825, which is well before Newgate closed. I don't know where 1891 comes from. epicgenius (talk) 16:11, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:   Pinging because this is a relevant discussion. Maybe 1891 is when the slang term "up the river" was popularized. But it definitely was being used earlier than that. epicgenius (talk) 17:12, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone mentioned this very discrepancy on the Sing Sing article's talk page, back in 2008. The same IP user as above also mentioned this on Sunday in the Sing Sing talk. I found that Etymonline among other sources cite Sing Sing as the sole object of the term. I saw that the one book, seemingly a pretty casual or gift-shop-friendly history of the city, lists Newgate as the first use, though it doesn't provide any information as to when, where, how, or anything, nor does it give a citation (which it does for other facts). Are there any better sources, any concrete examples of usage with regard to Newgate? ɱ (talk) 22:41, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Did "up the river" originally refer to Sing Sing or Newgate? 

message: The entire preservation section is currently written with clear editorializing in favor of preservationists. Most sources are taken from one perspective, and parts were (or still are) written in a narrative-style, rather than stating the facts or presenting conflicting arguments. The worst section were the NYU disputes, which I have mostly fixed, however issues still remain in the overall section. k-w (talk) 08:48, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Preservation 

message: There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Cornelia Street (song) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RMCD bot 21:19, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Move discussion in progress