Talk:Catalogue of Ships

message: Why does the map show Odysseus coming from Cephallenia?  It should be Ithaca.  
--Bacon Man (talk) 17:06, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Map with Odysseus not coming from Ithaca

message: The map should perhaps show where each Ajax comes from: Lokris and Salamis. 
--Bacon Man (talk) 17:06, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Ajax

message: Nice article.  I've indicated a number of places where we're using weasel words and need citations, and also attempted to break up some long sentences, remove some passive voice, and clarify a few items.  I'm unclear on whether to think of this article as a list with a lengthy intro, or an article about a famous list.  Jkelly 20:02, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: To do

message: I'm switching this over to tabular form, which I think you will agree is far more readable and useful. In fact it is VERY useful in scholarship. I commented out the items done, so nothing is being thrown away. Also, I'm throwing another pair of eyes (mine) on your work. I did discover one error so far, where the ancestors of the Phocian captains were listed as captains. As for the sources, I can probably find some of those from the books in my collection. But, don't wait for me. I'll be working on this for a while now, trying to create something the head-heavy classicists can admire and use, as well as giving readable information to the beginner in an attractive format. I'm pondering how and where to put in galleries of pictures showing some of those places. There is still some space left so some succinct but important things can still be said. I wouldn't expect to see such puerile statements as, the catalog is pure fantasy, or the catalog is totally 8th century, or there is no relation beytween the Mycenaean age anf the Iliad, but you weren't going to say that anyway. There's a lot more standard books that can be put in the bibliography. I don't think we will have any trouble finding references. In case you are wondering, I got some training in this, but that doesn't make me God. I thought it was pretty good so far, but if it can be made better, why not?Dave 04:06, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Doing

message: This data here is wrong. A recount is required. In part it depends on who you count as going with whom. As soon as the table is finished a more accurate count can be obtained. But then, what do you want to count? Just settlement names, or regional names, or geographic names, all or any combination?Dave 01:57, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Intro to the catalogue section

message: Should they be listed as leaders on this page as they were not listed by Homer
? (anonymous)
:Their names should be so noted in a footnote. Perhaps someone will see to that. --Wetman 03:42, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Neoptolemus and Thersander

message: I just did some work on unifying the citations in this article with a special view towards linking any available source texts.
Historicity
The main obstacles towards a 'good' article, at this time, are several unattended  tags concerning the historicity debate, in my opinion.
Having worked on the sources quite a bit I would wager that it would be difficult to find a contemporary dissenting opinion as described by the sentence:  We should try to find one or soften up that statement.
Dorian connection
One especially attacked paragraph postulates the following statements: That the Catalogue shows "hardly any of them [the Greek war leaders] are Dorian. The Ionian Greeks are mainly missing."
These statements argue that the historicity of the Dorian invasion is being supported by the ethnicity of the war leaders named in the Catalogue. An extraordinary claim, in my opinion which has to be supported with appropriate inline citations.
I will try to check the sources for any mention of such a proposition, otherwise the statement(s) will have to be taken out.
Authenticity Question
Another matter is the ugly "Authenticity Question" section: It is too short, names only a single source without a page number and begins with "Some scholars debate..."
Since historicity is already a major part of the "Historical background" section, I feel the section should be deleted.
I will also try to solicit help and more expert advice from Portal Classical Greece. --ΟΥΤΙΣ (talk) 20:24, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  to do-list on the way to [[:wp:Good articles|Good Article]] 

message: Section "Catalogue" in the table: row Cephallenians, column "settlements" has a note comparing Illiad's two listings of Odysseus' domains, concluding that "This supports the hypothesis that the Catalogue of Ships could not have been composed by Homer himself.". This sounds too OR to me. All I see here are two different lists with some common elements, not really a textual contradiction from which you could infer something about Illiad's authorship. At least not without citing someone who did so first. --ΟΥΤΙΣ (talk) 03:16, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cephallenian settlements note: Original research?