Talk:Monolatry

message: The gods that he/she... feels membership with... This needs rephrasing—feels an affinity to, or of whose people he/she considers himself/herself a member. To feel membership with a person or god isn't an English phrase.—Copey 2 22:24, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: As a former student of Comparative Religion I would like to offer an alternative definition for Monolatry and Monolatrous. These are rarely used terms but I have always used them and heard them used (or so it seemed) in another sense.
Monolatrism (Alternative Definition) is the belief that one singular supreme diety is represented by and acts through several lesser dieties. One example would be Hinduism where all gods are manifestations of Atman.
A better example (and the only one I can find a citation to support my useage) might be Ancient Egypt, where all gods were acting on behalf of Netjer and bore the title "names of Netjer".
-- But this is not 100% historically verifiable, it is a belief system which Kemetic Orthodoxy has chosen to support. --
If I am not mistaken, "Monolatrism" is not a word; the correct term is "Monolatry," which means the belief that although other gods exist, only one particular god is to be worshipped. Evidence of the pre-monotheistic character of early Hebrew religion can be found in the Hebrew Scriptures, in e.g. the Ten Commandments' Second Commandment: "You may not worship other gods before Me." 66.108.145.155 12:55, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If we had some dictionary citations to back up the change, it would be very easy to move the article to Monolatry. -Acjelen 14:38, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

text: I checked several dictionaries at work (a public library).  The results clearly support having monolatry as the word.  The OED 2nd ed. (1989) gives monolatry and not monolatrism, as do the second editions of the New Oxford American Dictionary (2000) and the Random House Dictonary of the English Language (1987).  The fourth edition of the American Heritage Dictionary (2005) gives neither.  Webster's Third and the second edition of the Encyclopedia of Religion both have a see reference at monolatry and do not give monolatrism.
If we want to move to Monolatry, we'll have to request a move or get an admin to do it. -Acjelen 19:41, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Alternative Definition

message: Acknowledging other people worshipped other gods, as the early Hebrews did, is not necessarily an endorsement of those faiths or a belief in their gods.  The rhetorical character of the translated passages can be argued either way, and this should be reflected in the article.  Abe Froman 15:28, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Early Hebrew belief is such a good example if you want to explain the term monolatrism or monolatry (I think you put -ism in the end of religious words too often in English) and how it differs from henotheism. If only this was more wikified with more sources, it would work excellent in the article. Monolatry is distinguished from monotheism, which asserts the existence of only one god, and henotheism, a religious system in which the believer worships one god alone without denying that others may worship different gods with equal validity. Moses and his brother Aron wore monolatrists, and so was his successors Joshua, Ehud, Deborah, Gideon, Jephthah, Samson, etc., who fought the kings of Canaan and conquered their cities, and who then had to argue that God was stronger and truer than eg Ammonites gods Baal and Asherah. "The Lord is stronger", it is said in several passages in the Old Testament. This is to speak like a monolatrist. A monotheist would say: "The Lord is the only one". A henotheist would say "The Lord is the only god for us", and would try to negotiate with other people rather than start a war. The article must also try to explain when the Hebrew people became monotheists. --Caspiax 23:33, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Monolatrism in early Hebrew belief 

message: While the article has seen great improvements lately, the sectons In ancient Israel and In Judaism need to be combined as they cover the same topic. -Acjelen 07:26, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, actually the two are related but do not refer to the same. The former is the very early stages of a development that would lead, among other things, to the latter. Str1977 (smile back) 19:06, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  two sections 

message: I was just reading the article today and saw that the Mormonism section and the Christianity section both quote 1 Cor 8:5, but they read differently. The LDS version is the King James Version of the New Testament; what is the other?
Also, we should never quote scripture and assume that everyone interprets the verse the same way; i.e. do not use primary sources. This current situation is a perfect example. What is needed in both sections is a quote from a reliable source that provides an interpretation for both sections. Thoughts?--Storm Rider (talk) 23:40, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Or at least a citation for each thought. Misty MH (talk) 00:50, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  1 Cor 8:5 - two versions 

message: I have moved the following section here until such time as there is something that makes it of value:
:"The Apostle Paul indicated that although there are gods many and lords many, to Christians there is but one god (cf. 1 Corinthians 8:5-6). This appears to be a proclamation of monolatry rather than monotheism."Martin S. Tanner, A Review of Melodie Moench Charles' "Book of Mormon Christology," in Brent Metcalfe’s New Approaches to the Book of Mormon (Salt Lake City, UT: Signature Books, 1993), reviewed in FARMS Review of Books on the Book of Mormon, Vol. 7, Number 2, 1995, Page 20.
:"Jews at the time of Jesus were not monotheists, that is, only believed in the existence of one god, but were instead involved in monolatry, that is, the worship of one god. The distinction is important. In many places, the Bible tacitly acknowledges the existence of more than one deity, but does not sanction the worship of more than one god."Martin S. Tanner, A Review of Melodie Moench Charles' "Book of Mormon Christology," in Brent Medcalfe’s New Approaches to the Book of Mormon (Salt Lake City, UT: Signature Books, 1993), reviewed in FARMS Review of Books on the Book of Mormon, Vol. 7, Number 2, 1995, Pages 24-25.
First of all, the editor has quoted a book review. The book review is not a statement about LDS beliefs, but a critique of an article that a critic of the LDS Church attempts to describe the concepts of Christology in the Book of Mormon, part of the LDS canon. Second, it seems unhelpful to quote the article, but then say nothing; as if the quotes are self explanatory. I find them insufficient. Third, the topic is monolatrism and this section should explain why it belongs or how it is applicable to the topic. Does anyone have any ideas? --Storm Rider (talk) 18:25, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Citing the book itself would seem better. However, since Monolatrism is in contrast to Monotheism and others, I see no reason to question its value to the article. In fact, I think these are pretty significant vs. the Monotheism that is tended to be taught today among many Christian groups. I'd like to see this information put back in but with citations of the original maybe backed up by the review. Misty MH (talk) 00:55, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  LDS section moved here 

message: I think it's absolutely relevant to explicitly look in the article at whether the Shema, the most prominent declaration in Jewish practice of the Oneness of God, is compatible with Monolatry rather than out-and-out Monotheism.
But at the moment I am not clear what exactly thesis Rashi's comment
The Lord, who is now our God and not the God of the other nations-He will be [declared] in the future “the one God,” as it is said: “For then I will convert the peoples to a pure language that all of them call in the name of the Lord” (Zeph. 3:9), and it is [also] said: “On that day will the Lord be one and His name one” (Zech. 14:9).
is being used to support.
A quote in the article claims "there is no clear and unambiguous denial of the existence of gods other than Yahweh before Deutero-Isaiah in the 6th century B.C."  Then we blithely continue "This was recognised by Rashi..."
But as somebody wrote above, "Acknowledging other people worshipped other gods, ... is not necessarily an endorsement of those faiths or a belief in their gods.  The rhetorical character of the translated passages can be argued either way, and this should be reflected in the article". 
Different readings I guess are:
: "YHVH is our God, YHVH alone"  
: "YHVH is our God, YHVH is the only [God]"
: "YHVH is our God, YHVH is unlike any other" ?
I'm not sure that Rashi is incompatible with (2). 
IMO it would indeed be good to look at this example more closely, and at what various commentators (particularly those not necessarily just "teaching the party line") have had to say about the Shema, if [[WP:RS]s can be found.  Jheald (talk) 18:41, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rashi and the Shema ?

message: "However, due to lack of understanding of the original text, most points are considered invalid and not congruent with Jewish teachings."
This sentence is biased, because it looks like it implies that the points are considered invalid because they are incompatible with Jewish teachings.
Considered invalid by whom? By Jewish teachings? Of course they are. Biblical criticism is a scientific approach, Jewish teaching is a religion.
I think the author should add WHO considers those points invalid and also separate that from the fact that they are incompatible with Jewish techings. 
Yingele (talk) 16:32, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  In ancient Israel   

message: Monolatry is being treated as one of the -isms. It is NOT and the correct article should be at Monolatry, not monolatrism. The 'isms' all deal with belief, not practice. So if the opposite of theism is atheism, then one could say the opposite of monolatry is idolatry
. So to say that someone who practices monolatry worships only one god, but believes in te existence of more than one god is reading more into the statement than is there. Consider the examples below:
* Adam believes in one god and worships him (or her).
* Brian believes in more than one god, but worships only one.
* Charlie isn't sure if there is a god, but worships God out of faith.
* David believes in God, but really doesn't practice any faith.
So given the examples above, Adam, Brian, and Charlie all practice monolatry (that is they all worship one god) even though Adam is monotheistic, Brian is henotheistic, and Charlie is some sort of theistic agnostic. David; like Adam, is monotheistic but doesn't practice monolatry because he is irreligious.
Bottom Line: Monolatry = single worship greek: mono(single) + latreia(worship). I do acknowledge that monolatry is often used to refer to those who believe there may be (or are) more than one god (because monolatry is a 'weaker' term than monotheism), but this article needs to acknowledge the differences. VictorianMutant (talk) 22:11, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I am not sure what you are getting at, and what is the real quibble. If Monolatry is the worship of one, it might also imply a belief or major belief in one. But that's fine if you think that someone can BELIEVE IN maybe more than one while worshiping only one. Was it reworded at some point to reflect this? Apple Dictionary defines it as: "monolatry... the worship of one god without denial of the existence of other gods." I thought the article now indicates that in the first line. Maybe it was changed after your comment. :) Misty MH (talk) 01:01, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article misses the point... 

message: Why is there a random section on Christianity? It doesn't really add anything to the article on monolatry. Shouldn't really be there. ArdClose (talk) 07:29, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The comments about the Jehovah's Witnesses and the New World Translation indicate a stong POV that is unencyclopedic.  75.201.3.191 (talk) 04:03, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  I second the above.  There needs to be a flag inserted there indicating that a citation is needed.  --Sierkejd (talk) 18:10, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  I came onto this talk page solely to see what was up with that JW section.  I'll be bold and delete it--even if it's true, the article gives us no reason to believe such.  Discuss here.  --Mrcolj (talk) 02:02, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

text: Christianity is a monotralous religion (according to the verses Psalm 82:1 and 82:6-7; Psalm 86:8; Psalm 95:3; Psalm 138:1; Judges 11:24; 1 Corinthians 8:5-6; Deuteronomy 10:17; Exodus 15:11; Daniel 2:47). In 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 it is says: even though there are so-called gods in heaven and on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, but for us there is only one. Egon20 (talk) 14:20, 11 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Christian section 

message: It is clear the bible dopes not refer to any "other Gods"
It speaks on the topic clearly by saying "gods" to refer to the blindness induced by sinfullness. It uses it as a sort of distinguisher between the one true God, and those which are a figment of mans sinful puzzle-lie formations. TO say that ancient Israel supported many gods as in the same category of the one true God is incorrect. The topic is discussed by the Apostle Paul as well as by Moses and the word of God himself in the Old testament.http://biblehub.com/isaiah/45-5.htmhttp://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/8-5.htm<ref>http://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/8-6.htm</ref>  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.249.65.78 (talk) 17:18, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Errors on the page" 

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thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018) 

message: I am not happy with the MOVE to "Monolatry" from "Monolatrism".
Monolatry smacks of reference to the word idolatry, and therefore seems like some religion's preferred term to dismiss other forms of theism.
When I first encountered this article, I just took the word monolatrism to refer to a theological word for another form of theism, comparable to the words monotheism or pantheism, etc. Now, as monolatry, it seems more like an opinion that relegates the belief or practice to a form of idolatry.
Don't like it at all.
We are not likely to find the finer distinctions (or words) like this in TYPICAL dictionaries. They aren't theological dictionaries! And as we see from the discussion in October 2017,† each of these words might not even be found in such a dictionary! Both words were missing from some!
:† I just today read the short Discussion, which only included a few editors, no discussion among theologians, and no references whatsoever to theological dictionaries (that I noticed in the discussion). Everyday dictionaries aren't good enough on this topic.
Whether intended or not, the move – to what is being taken here as the same word in a different form – seems to be a move to a more sectarian designation, possibly referring by sectarians to idolatry, rather than a theological word referring to an important type of theism.
I strongly urge that this word be changed back until we (or someone) can do further research among theological dictionaries and such, rather than relying on everyday-dictionaries.
Please.
Suggestions for theological dictionaries are welcome. But let's move the page back for now (someone who knows how to do that).
 The move details from View History: "10:57, November 6, 2017‎ Jenks24 (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (19,535 bytes) (0)‎ . . (Jenks24 moved page Monolatrism to Monolatry: per requested move discussion, see talk) (undo | thank)"
Misty MH (talk) 02:06, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not happy with the Move to Monolatry from Monolatrism 

message: I saw this youtube video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Kpkp2vxX3I
That kind of addresses this topic.
And sure, it can't be used as a source, and heck, its sources are books etc that can't be used as a source either directly.
But perhaps someone digging deeper can find more sources about this topic by going down that rabbit hole?
Things like online references to the books used as sources or even the books themselves being online somewhere?
Or perhaps there's something else that would qualify as a source?
Anyway, just thought I should let you all know about the video and the sources mentioned in the description field as it might be a good starting point for beefing up the source section of this article a bit if anyone is willing to go to the effort of looking through it all. Luredreier (talk) 15:53, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some more potential sources? 

message: In this article one reads about henotheism, a religious system in which the believer worships one god without denying that others may worship different gods with equal validity., whereas in the article Henotheism it says: Henotheism (from Greek ἑνὸς θεοῦ (henos theou) 'of one god') is the worship of a single, supreme god while not denying the existence or possible existence of other lower deities..
This seems like an open contradiction. Which article is right? --♦ Xarioti (talk) 17:00, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Definition of henotheism