Talk:Józef Piłsudski

message: The following seems very derogatory to France and Britain and Pilsudski:Chancellor Hitler repeatedly suggested a German-Polish alliance against the Soviet Union, but Piłsudski refused, instead preparing his horse-mounted cavalry for suicide charges against the vast Soviet armored divisions.[48][158] Until his death, Piłsudski believed Poland's policy must be to maintain neutral relations with the Germany Empire, while maintaining tenuous -- and illusory -- alliances with the weak French socialist bureaucracies and the isolationist British.[146]
Is this really what the source says and if so can the source really be reliable or unbiased ? After all the alliance with Britain and France seemed ineffective rather than an illusion. In 1939 it was real enough to bring France and Britain into the war making the German Polish War a World War even though it didnt save Poland for defeat or give Poland real independence six years later. I don't have any expertise in this field and don't have the source book but it just seems wrong to me.
Spinney Hill (talk) 01:25, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  i think it's an accurate statement. . is coverage of serious mistakes =?? derogatory??  No--wiki follows the reliable secondary sources.  is it "derogatory" to some statesmen? Well the consensus of historians is that those statesmen made LOTS of serious--even fatal-- mistakes in late 1930s. Rjensen (talk) 04:46, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

text: Thanks, I FAed this ~10 years ago but since then the article has slightly deteriorated; the idiotic cavalry trolling is of course just that (). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 17:01, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Foreign Policy 

message: Note "b" does not make any sense so far as I can see. Can anyone improve it?Spinney Hill (talk) 08:41, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I have rewritten the note, the middle was 'philosophized' way too much. This is not the Simple English Wikipedia, but this was totally in the realm of high academese, or some related "post-modern" garbage. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 09:52, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Note b

message: The infobox was too long and contained lists of names that distract from the more important elements in it. Therefore, I have removed/collapsed them  (t · c) buidhe 20:51, 26 September 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  infobox 

message: It says in this section 31st of May, it doesn't say which year
Should be fixed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:EmilePersaud 16:03, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed. 1926, of course. Can be infered from the prior section too. But I agree, it should have been clarified. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:58, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  In government section 

message: Rokkas Piłsudski is watching this.. StrangePersonality (talk) 05:26, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Living Concrete (talk) 07:54, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 June 2021 

message: It says at the top that his name was Pilsudski not Pilsudski  but the spellings appear to be exactly the same. What is going on here please?. Is there a mistake which still needs to be corrected?Spinney Hill (talk) 09:42, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: At the top of what? Can you quote and/or be more precise? I don't see any inconsistency anywhere. Anyway, it's Piłsudski not Pilsudski. Maybe your computer doesn't display WP:DIACRITICS correctly? Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 10:51, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Surname. 

message: Hello,
Requesting info box edit: add his position of Minister of Military Affairs (1928-1935) - because this is pretty important as it allowed him to influence the state until his death. 
Now it looks at first glance that he played no important role after 1928. Rebelbear (talk) 11:37, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the  template. Snowmanonahoe (talk) 12:21, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 March 2022 

message: The Head of State section under Rebuilding Poland contains the following paragraph:
I tried to find the source of this quote, but it appears (and correct me if I'm wrong here) that it in fact originated from Adolf Nowaczyński, who wrote of Piłsudzki in 1919 that he "got off the party tram at the stop called Independence". I believe a quote closer to the one cited in the Wikpedia article can be found in the monograph White Eagle, Red Star by Norman Davies, where he cites it as something that Piłsudzki himself "supposedly" said. On the other hand, Piłsudzki biographer Andrzej Garlicki says this quote is "not in [Piłsudzki's] style".
The "red tram" quote is no doubt a compelling representation of Piłsudzki's fascinating and somewhat mysterious relationship with socialism (plus it contributes to the popular conception of the man as a silver-tongued devil), but I think there's simply far too much disagreement about its authenticity for it to be included in the article the way it appears now. I suggest either removing the quote altogether or specifying that it's of dubious validity.
Sources consulted:
* https://kurierhistoryczny.pl/artykul/wysiadlem-z-czerwonego-tramwaju-czyli-czego-nie-powiedzial-jozef-pilsudski,368
* https://histmag.org/Gdzie-Pilsudski-wysiadl-z-tramwaju-czyli-historie-poprzekrecane-14909 Spontaneously (talk) 15:49, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: @Spontaneously Seems like a valid point. I'll review the sources soon. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 16:10, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

text: In progress: An editor is implementing the requested edit. Working on it! Actualcpscm (talk) 18:41, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Done, thanks for pointing this out! :) Actualcpscm (talk) 18:56, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks! Have a good day. Spontaneously (talk) 19:27, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

text: @Actualcpscm Looks good! Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 08:11, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

text: I think it is worth adding at this place the story of the red banner at the Royal Castle (; link), but it is better to find confirmation in the good RS. Marcelus (talk) 08:54, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lack of reliable source for "red tram" quote 

message: Grammar error: In the "Legacy" section, "comrades-in-arms of Piłsudski's" should be "comrades-in-arms of Piłsudski" 81.187.20.112 (talk) 21:11, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Typo/Grammar error 

message: “First Marshall” should be changed to “First Marshal” in the short description. 142.167.21.12 (talk) 15:31, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Typo 

message: @Cukrakalnis can you give a reasoning for the Lithuanisation of the Zułów estate name? Marcelus (talk) 22:05, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Why are you so intent on Polonizing the name of a Lithuanian village? The Polish name was definitely not the one used in the Russian Empire which was forcibly russifying everything it could, so there is no argument for using the Polish name due to historical accuracy. Cukrakalnis (talk) 09:32, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: @Administrators! The above user is a Lithuanian nationalist and he should refrain from editing this page. Zułów was a Polish village, owned by Polish nobility, of which Piłsudski was part. HetmanWL (talk) 16:02, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: @HetmanWL Please read WP:AGF and WP:NPA Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:48, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

text: Regarding this, I support using the Polish spelling, since this concerns the Polish-speaking Piłsudski family. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:44, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Also the reasoning given () is faulty; because there is no logical connection between both statement; just because some village was part of Russian empire it doesn't mean it couldn't be called by a Polish name. Marcelus (talk) 08:39, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Right. Btw, pl wiki article is at :pl:Zułowo not Zułów. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 09:47, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Then commit to editing the name to the proper Polish form, please @Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 2A00:F41:80EB:9A95:50B8:3473:8A19:941E (talk) 07:14, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

text: I second the motion above, @Piotrus Please, please fix the name to the right one--Zułów/Zułowo. FeldmarschallGneisenau (talk) 09:03, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:BEBOLD - you can do it. I am busy with other things, and the tone taken by the anon further discentivies me from this. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 12:03, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't do it, I'm not extended-confirmed-protected. Hence this extended-confirmed-protected-edit-request FeldmarschallGneisenau (talk) 10:19, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: @FeldmarschallGneisenau Fair enough, I've made the change. I've also added a clarification per cited source ("he was born in the family manor called Zułów close to the Zułowo village"). Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 12:19, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Zułów 

message: I have done some work on the article's "skeleton".
This featured article very badly needs a thoroughgoing copyedit for English usage and style, which I don't now have time to undertake.
Thanks.
Nihil novi (talk) 09:43, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  "[[Józef Piłsudski]]" needs thorough copyedit 

message: Please revert the image in the infobox to the previous. 
The current image in the infobox (:commons:File:Jozef Pilsudski1 (cropped).jpg added in this revision) was altered using AI software and is likely innacurate. Please revert the change to the infobox, making it use the previous image (:commons:File:Józef Piłsudski (-1930).jpg), as can be seen in this older revision. 
Current infobox:
{{Infobox officeholder
| honorific_prefix    = Marshal
| name                = Józef Piłsudski
| image               = File:Jozef Pilsudski1 (cropped).jpg
| imagesize           = 
| caption             = Józef Piłsudski 
| office2             = Chief of State of Poland
| term_start2         = 22 November 1918
| term_end2           = 14 December 1922
| primeminister2      = 
Requested edit:
{{Infobox officeholder
| honorific_prefix    = Marshal
| name                = Józef Piłsudski
| image               = Józef Piłsudski (-1930).jpg
| imagesize           = 
| caption             = Piłsudski 
| office2             = Chief of State of Poland
| term_start2         = 22 November 1918
| term_end2           = 14 December 1922
| primeminister2      = 
Alternatively, add another image that doesn't have AI-made changes.  CaradoWindows (talk) 17:30, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: NotAGenious (talk) 09:38, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please revert the image in the infobox - extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 February 2024