Talk:Demons (Dostoevsky novel)

message: For a long time this section has just had one sub-section - 'ideologies', so I have deleted the section and incorporated its content into the Characters (Shigalyev and Shatov) and Commentary sections. Harold the Sheep (talk) 06:36, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thematic content 

message: In my opinion it is not possible to "comfortably" navigate the plot of this novel: it is long, opaque, complex and  multilinear, and demands a lot of the reader. This is intentional on the author's part and should be reflected in the summary, or the plot will tend to be over-simplified and misrepresented, as it was previously. In terms of the standard length for plot summaries, I think this is a case of wp:Iar.
Making the summary shorter might be a good idea, but are there any suggestions on how it should be done, taking in to consideration the novel itself, not merely the wikipedia guidelines. Harold the Sheep (talk) 05:46, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: No response, so I'm removing the tag. Harold the Sheep (talk) 01:06, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

text: Any long novel will have many threads that weave in and out of the story as a whole. It is enough to delineate them without exposition. It is enough to refer to the themes of the novel without explicating them. A plot summary is like a coat hangar. It cannot possibly do justice to the novel any more than a coat hangar can do justice to the coats that are hung on it. It is unreasonable to expect, or attempt, it to do so. Raskolovich (talk) 06:20, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plot tag 

message: In my copy of the text (an Andrew MacAndrew translation entitled The Possessed), Matryosha's age is given as twelve, not eleven. Can someone please double check? Seems odd that different translators would interpret an integer value differently. Thanks.
The tamale (talk) 21:00, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: They didn't interpret an integer differently, they probably just used different versions. Dostoevsky revised the chapter several times due to the publisher's concerns. In the different versions, Matryosha varied in age from 10 to 14. In the original manuscript she is described as "in her 12th year", so some interpret this as 11. However, 12 does seem to be the age generally given for Matryosha, in secondary sources as well. Harold the Sheep (talk) 04:10, 2 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Matryosha's age 

message: This censored chapter should not be discussed as though it were a missing piece of the novel. It was intended to be a different novel, and when it was censored, Dostoevsky took the story in an entirely different direction. Dostoevsky never went back to revise his works. He was so in need of money that as soon as he finished a chapter, he sent it to the magazine to be published. It is my opinion that the censor did Dostoevsky the biggest favor of his life. The idea of a horrific murderer as a Christ figure may seem intriguing as a concept, but the censored chapter shows how poorly it works in print. Once the deed is recounted there is no further mention of the girl or the moral implications for Stavrogin. The two men only talk about Stavrogin's "great burden" and some undisclosed act that he is planning to commit, presumably to expiate his guilt (presumed by me anyway). I found Tikhon himself to be morally repugnant. At any rate the novel is much better without this chapter. And I don't think that it should be used to interpret the novel that Dostoevsky ultimately wrote, which is far superior to the one he was planning before this chapter was rejected. Raskolovich (talk) 05:50, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  "At Tikhon's"