Talk:Basque Country (greater region)

message: I have started a general naming debate on the naming conventions of Basque provinces at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Basque and would like to invite all interested parties to take part in the debate. Akerbeltz (talk) 12:02, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Naming debate

message: I must point the fact that Basque Country as a greater region doesn't have any official flag/coat of arms, as it's not an administrative neither political entity. One thing is true: the Basque Country/Euskal Herria can be considered as a cultural region (see Informe de la Real Academia de la Lengua Vasca sobre la denominación Euskal Herria), but as it's not any consolidated country, it has no flag/coat of arms. Furthermore, the ikurriña flag as a symbol to an hypothetical Greater Basque Country is a claim not supported by all basque society, including those citiziens from regions that would be a part of it. Therefore, the image of the flag and the coat of arms should be removed. Nevertheless, the nationalist claim is 100% real, so the images should be included in the article as a reflect of this reality. I shall proceed now to edit those changes. --Infinauta (talk) 10:18, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Flag and coat of arms of Basque Country (greater region)/Euskal Herria

message: Hello there, at your own request I´m not changing it straight. Most of it was right before and if any, one only change should be the done:
* The flag: Long tradition and immediately identifiable by all Basques (Autonomous Community, Navarre and French BC).
* Coat of arms: Long tradition and equally identifiable.
* Anthem: Maybe the only one I would change, since almost no one but officially in the Basque AC identifies it. Belongs to the Autonomous Community.
Sorry but that there is no state or single administration doesn't mean there is no reality, whatever it is like. It´s the ethnic, historic and political past and present and it's the future project. Lapland is a reality, Kurdistan is a reality beyond administration borders, you like it or not. Iñaki LL (talk) 08:15, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, the Sápmi page also sports a flag, on this page the coat of arms/flag should really be non-controversial. Akerbeltz (talk) 09:49, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

text: I don't think that the presence of the Basque symbols in the page is any problem, but to put them in a very prominent place in the infobox could prove misleading for users, they might easily assume that Euskal Herria either is or has been an internationally recognised political entity. Jotamar (talk) 13:36, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

text: I agree with Jotamar. In fact, this is exactly what I said in this discussion one year ago, see point 2 on this very archive: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Basque_Country_%28greater_region%29#Flag_and_coat_of_arms_of_Basque_Country_.28greater_region.29.2FEuskal_Herria
I know the basque nationalist sector has the tradition of the Ikurriña and the coat of arms for their claim of Euskal Herria, so I agree of including the flag and the coat of arms in the article. But as it's not a recognised country by any state in the world, the inclusion into the infobox is a misleading edition. Furthermore, the coat of arms and the flag are already included in the article here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_Country_%28greater_region%29#Territorial_extension and here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_Country_%28greater_region%29#Basque_Nationalism.
We may discuss if we should include the flag and the coat of arms in the same subsection, explaining the claim of nationalist sectors (remember that Navarre government asked for the deletion of their escutcheon in the coat of arms of Euskal Herria). Thank you for your kind colaboration with the article.--Infinauta (talk) 23:13, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  The flag was invented by Basque nationalists (late 19th century) but it has come a long way since its inception and taken on as symbol of the Basque Country. The problem arose when the administration unit initially designed in the 70s for the Basque people in Spain came to be made up only by the western provinces and not Navarre, and made official of the Basque Autonomous Community. The flag is a widespread symbol in the Northern Basque Country and even in Navarre, although it holds true that its official use there (town halls,...) remains controversial. See same issue in Brittany. Saint_Pierre_and_Miquelon has added it to their flag, since its associated to the Basque people, not to the nationalists. So there are reasons enough I think to stick to the flag and the coat or arms. Iñaki LL (talk) 11:47, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The fact that the flag and coat of arms are a widespread symbol doesn't affect the fact that they are not official symbols. Therefore, in the infobox shouldn't appear the flag and the coat of arms. --Infinauta (talk) 15:16, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Flag, anthem, coat of arms

message: The political parties section is outdated.
To begin with, Batasuna is no longer in the Basque country (Spanish area) since it was declared illegal, other parties ANV (Accion Nacionalista Vasca) and now Bildu have arised, the section should be updated.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.176.97.142 (talk) 02:17, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Political parties 

message: It seems unreasonable to describe of a region as that of one and only people. People identifying as Basque also live just outside that region, while there are many areas inside it where there are no Basque people. Politis (talk) 00:06, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: If you look for innuendo, innuendo is what you'll find. The intro does not state that the BC is the home solely of the Basques. It states it's the homeland. Perhaps you should peruse that article before we continue? Akerbeltz (talk) 10:58, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry but I don't have the time to teach you the meaning of words. Please consult a good dictionary. Akerbeltz (talk) 21:38, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Citation needed for 'home of the Basque people'

message: The 1996 inkesta has some nice data on identity and all the subsequent ones on attitudes towards the languages. I'm thinking of moving the detailed data on attitudes in southern Navarre into a general section on the issue, thoughts? Akerbeltz (talk) 14:00, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Akerbeltz, I agree with a section on identity conflict and attitudes. The general definition of the concept is given in the introductory paragraphs, with an objection at the end of it (southern Navarre, etc.) that could lead to broader discussion in a specific section. It's not acceptable that the introductory paragraphs being called into question time and again when we are looking for a definition of the concept, not for more ambiguity and personal approaches. Plenty of grounds and well founded, reliable citations have provided by now. Iñaki LL (talk) 12:23, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I was thinking of using broadly these 3 tables: User:Akerbeltz/sandbox. Do you think there are any rows that should be added? Identity data we only have for 1996, but I was going to give the data both for the olders (1996) and the most recent (2011) inkesta data, to show changes (so the 1st and 3rd table get twice the number of rows they currently have). Any thoughts welcome. Akerbeltz (talk) 15:00, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Umm, it's a pity there is just one table on Identity, the most relevant to this article. While language and identity have close connections, I don´t think they are directly relevant to the article. Iñaki LL (talk) 18:22, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I guess we could always use the speaker table on the language article ;) Notwithstanding, there does seem to be a correlation with number of speakers viz attitude. I'm not sure why they only asked the question once ... it's such a useful question to ask. But then at least we have that. Akerbeltz (talk) 18:41, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed there is a correlation. As far as I see it, feel free to use the most relevant. Regards Iñaki LL (talk) 19:02, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Identity and attitudes 

message: Recently a new reference (#14) to the Libro Blanco del Euskera has been added, namely to the 60 pages-strong chapter Perspectiva política. Could we get a more precise point or page, so as not to be forced to read the sixty pages to find the referencing text? Jotamar (talk) 01:34, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: After getting the page numbers, I'm still struggling to see the connection. Perhaps I've misunderstood something. The text I read begins with Pernoud ha podido redactar (p. 86) and de un rico sistema simbólico (p. 100-104). It is an interesting review of the political ideas about language in some historical periods, but hardly any mention of the Basque country appears. Nothing to support a special process in the Basque country as implied by In the decades after the Spanish annexation, the Basque Country suffered attempts at religious, ideological and national homogenization, let alone the link between this and the Basque witch trials. ¿What did I get wrong? Jotamar (talk) 00:29, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  I don´t see clearly what your point is. The whole article is related to the Basque language and Basque language territory, the topics developed apply to these topics, which doesn´t mean that it's exclusive to the Basque Country. The pages are 86 and four more. The pages pointed show the French and Spanish national ideologies, especially as related to language (one prince should foster a single language, which applies to the period after the conquest of Navarre), and the Renaissance context is provided, read more in detail 86 and 103. It's all about national and linguistic homogenization if you still don´t see it. As for the religious part, it's a well known fact that in Spain the central tribunal Inquisition's fervour came to a head in the Logroño proceedings (1611) after starting in Navarre just after the conquest (1525). If you don´t agree with that you may add your argumentation and references. Iñaki LL (talk) 11:59, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The conflictive segment had a Clarification needed tag, rather than a Reference needed one. What the provided source says (I've read the 6 pages thoroughly) is simply that a number of languages roughly acquired the status of what we call today official languages, as part of a growing identification betwen state and nation, and it's obvious that Basque was not one of them, the same case as Galician, Catalan, Breton, Welsh, etc., etc. This is NOT what is conveyed by the aforementioned text, that is, In the decades after the Spanish annexation, the Basque Country suffered attempts at religious, ideological and national homogenization. But the main point is not the reference, the point is: what kind of attempts is the text talking about? Because there is a wide range of possibilities, from say the publication of a book favoring the use of Spanish, to armed raids and massive carnages. --Jotamar (talk) 21:19, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: If a clarification is needed, the reference provided gives the key to understanding the text, highlighting the linguistic national connection. It seems to me that you don't agree with the statements, there. In that case, ADD YOUR OWN argumentation, preferably with a citation, or delete what you see is not accurate, I may even agree with you, or won't bother, or I may act accordingly, but IT WILL SPARE me quite a lot of time and probably you as well. If the wording is the problem it can be fine-tuned, that's all, you make a proposal. There is little doubt that there were those attempts, summarizing, starting in 1525 the Inquisition, a central Spanish tribunal not belonging to Navarre or the Basque Country altogether, was hitting the Basque society in a regular string of processes against local figures related to religion ("heretic" clergy), and popular wisdom (midwives, healers,...), overturning Navarrese court decisions (cf marriage), gradually appointing Spanish speaking, non-bilingual position holders in the Navarrese Church despite pleads to the contrary, imposing restrictions on ideas / literature coming from Europe (in the Spanish kingdom), etc. That 1610-1615 processes (Logro;o, De Lancre) mark a turning point is little doubt, just check out the activity of the Inquisition thereafter. Thank you Iñaki LL (talk) 10:24, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

text: Hi, actually I built up on former text, editing and improving it. Conspiracy theories? Where did you get that from? My point (challenge) is to provide what is missing based on published evidence. I don't think I created the phrase in question, but admittedly I added to it. The colour of ANY edit is hardly politics or philosophy blind (even when it's presented as such), but you may be aware, regional/local (historic, political, cultural) dynamics is to not as easily supported, neglected (distorted?) as it is by statistics or mainstream media. Iñaki LL (talk) 09:54, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page in reference 

message: :File:Euskal Herriaren Euler diagrama - Euler diagram of the Basque Country.jpg is very hard to understand; I think it's in Basque and not English? -- Beland (talk) 17:57, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Beland, you are right, indeed it refers to Basque language naming, therefore to that linguistic system, and not to English. It does need either removing or editing. Regards Iñaki LL (talk) 20:51, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't have time right now but if we gave you translations, maybe you could recreate it? Akerbeltz (talk) 21:45, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I must be insane. Anyway. I had a go. Feedback welcome, happy to tweak but may not be able to do so in a hurry. Akerbeltz (talk) 22:16, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow, that was quick, thanks for your effort Akerbeltz. Some observations: It should be Basque Autonomous Community, not Autonomous Basque Community. Someone changed it right now in Navarre article, foral has been rendered as "Chartered", which I find is accurate enough. Iñaki LL (talk) 23:10, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

text: Hey, looking nice, and neat! Iñaki LL (talk) 23:10, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you! Akerbeltz (talk) 08:50, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Diagram not in English? 

message: The caption says "The enclaves of Valle de Villaverde and Treviño are pictured in red and blue, respectively." but I don't see them.  It would help if they were labelled.  Also, I think the part that claims only the "light yellow" regions are in France is incorrect. -- Beland (talk) 18:00, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, this was referring to a different map which was previously in use; I just put it back to make things match up. -- Beland (talk) 18:04, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Map problems 

message: A discussion is taking place as to whether :Portal:Basque Country (greater region) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Basque Country (greater region) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America1000 13:50, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nomination of [[:Portal:Basque Country (greater region)]] for deletion