Talk:TNA World Championship/Archive 1

message: Did anyone other then TJ Spyke see Christian Cage listed as the “first” TNA Champion on TNAWrestling.com? I ask because I check TNAWrestling daily (TNA Today) and not once did I ever see anything that named Christian Cage the “1st” TNA Champion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TNAWrestling (talk • contribs) 22:36, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Harris and Storm are not former World Champions (unless you mean World Tag Team Champions. TNA reckonizes past NWA Champions as world champions, that doesn't mean they consider it the same world title. TNA also lists every NWA Champion, do you think Grank Gotch should be considered a former TNA Champion? Cage is the FIRST TNA World Champion, and TNA considers him a 3 time World Champion (2 NWA, 1 TNA). Just because they don't ignore every world title doesn't mean they consider a seperate title part of their title. TJ Spyke 02:19, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Champ

message: I added this article to Category:World heavyweight wrestling championships.  This categorization was removed because the title has not been granted "official" world status (presumably by PWI). However, the qualifications for being placed in that category (as described on the category's page) is that the title must be "claimed as world titles by their organization." Jeff Silvers 01:50, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not quite true. Only titles that actualy have a legit claim can. Half the indy feds out there call their title a world title. PWI probably will give the TNA title world title status, so it doesn't bother me. TJ Spyke 02:05, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Meh, I guess.  I think I just have a problem with how we consider PWI the absolute gold standard as far as world titles are concerned. Jeff Silvers 03:24, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: True, but there is no doubt in my mind that the TNA title will gain official World status from PWI in the coming weeks.-- bulletproof 3:16 03:33, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Category:World heavyweight wrestling championships 

message: I really hope TNA releases some promotional images of the belt soon. The picture we have right now is of pretty low quality because it's just a screencap of a YouTube video.  As soon as somebody can get their hands on a better fair use or free image (preferably free, but that might not be possible for a while), we need to get it in the article. Jeff Silvers 01:01, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We can even consider a screenshot of Impact!, can we not? --Aaru Bui DII 09:08, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure, but we should only consider it if it provides a better quality close-up of the belt than what we already have. Jeff Silvers 13:04, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Until tomorrow night, no. It will just be reverted the same way posting a written spoiler would (even though it's not really a spoiler since they are already the champions). TJ Spyke 23:33, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Damn.  This kind of thing is a prime example of why we really need to drop our policy of maintaining kayfabe. Jeff Silvers 00:19, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Not really, it's a good policy and it works just fine. TJ Spyke 00:40, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Better image 

message: I edited the image of the belt in the article in Photoshop (increased lighting and contrast) to better illustrate the belt's detail.  It's still a bit difficult to make out some of the design's features, and as I've said before, we will hopefully see some promo images released by TNA soon. Jeff Silvers 02:44, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ...Is there any reason why my image was reverted to the darker, harder-to-see one? Jeff Silvers 12:39, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't do it, but maybe because your image was too bright? You can barely see the belt because it's so bright. TJ Spyke 00:37, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edited belt image 

message: Go here http://www.tnawrestling.com/roster/index.html and click on any former NWA World Heavyweight Champion. They now list their titles they have won in TNA and they will be recognizing the the NWA and TNA titles under the same lineage simply as "World Heavyweight Champion".  This doesn't make the titles the same, it just shows you the list of "World Heavyweight Champions" in TNA, whether they be NWA or TNA World Champs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MC511 (talk • contribs) 08:55, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  NWA / TNA Champions 

message: Should the TNA World Heavyweight title have the history of TNA era NWA World Heavyweight Champions. I know there not official TNA World Heavyweight champions but, they were World Champions in TNA. The NWA World Tag Team title history article has the NWA World Tag Team (Mid-Antlantic version) title included in its article before an official NWA World Tag Team belt of the NWA and their not the same title.  I think the same thing should be done with the TNA World Tag Team titles. This is something that should be discussed. 5TimeWCWChamp 03:32, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't, the NWA and TNA titles are two seperate titles. The TNA website even says they are not the same title. I disagree with the NWA Tag Title situation because they are NOT the same titles. The Mid-Atlantic were only regional titles and no different than the other regional tag belts, the FIRST NWA World Tag Team Champions were crowned in 1992 (when the NWA finally decided to have a set of world tag team belts rather than just let every region have their own "world" tag title belts). Maybe I will take a look at the page and fix it. TJ Spyke 05:30, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: They took down the title history page from their site a couple days ago if you haven't noticed.  They're probably using the KOTM match at Slammiversary to crown the first champion.  In my opinion they botched the title lineage by having Christian be the first champion on it and only having a reign that literally lasted hours, and Kurt's reign that would last 1 day to 4?  Yeah that's not a way to build prestige to a title, at least that's my feeling and may be reason why they might be changing their minds. TonyFreakinAlmeida 17:02, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's too late to crown a first champion though since 2 men have already held the title. TNA can say what they want, but they can't change that (just like WCW tried to pretend that the WCW and NWA belts were 1 title). TJ Spyke 01:10, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually they can say what they want. Most of their fans probably didn't know that the NWA titles had been vacated before the show started. Christian was still announced as NWA Heavyweight Champion of the World in the ring, and Angle was later announced simply World Heavyweight Champion. The first guy they put the new belt on(without stripping the next day of course)is in my eyes the first champion.  Probably to many casual fans eyes right now Angle was TNA Champion after beating Christian the NWA Champion.  Also Christian's stripping of the title happened the same day he "lost" the title to Angle, it's just going to be a date on the lineage to most people. TonyFreakinAlmeida 14:34, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I know TNA can say what they want and you can believe what you want, i'm just saying that it doesn't change the fact that Cage was the first champion (even TNA said this on their website) and that he lost the belt to Angle. So whoever wins the belt at Slammiversary will be the 3rd champion. TJ Spyke 22:44, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Actually, yes they did. When they had the title histories for the TNA titles up, they had had Cage listed as the first TNA Champion. TJ Spyke 22:32, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just an idea, but is it possible we include the history of the World Heavyweight, starting with Ken Shamrock winning the Gauntlet for the Gold on June 19, 2002 and point out that TNA Wrestling and the NWA both recognized the champions, but  the NWA dropped their recognition on May 13th?  TNA Wrestling always pointed out that Ken Shamrock and the team of AJ Styles & Jerry Lynn were the “first” recognized champions in TNA era.  There were several times since 2002 that when the World Champions were defending the titles outside of TNA, they were billed as “TNA Champions” and at times were billed as “NWA Champions”. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TNAWrestling (talk • contribs) 22:17, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Except for the fact that Christian Cage is the first person to hold this title. Ken Shamrock has nothing to do with this title at all. TJ Spyke 22:56, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: TJ Spyke, Ken Shamrock was the first recognized World Champion in TNA Wrestling, PERIOD. It does not matter what the name of the title was, what letters were on the physical belt, or what promotions did or didn’t recognize it. Ken Shamrock was the first man to be billed as the World Heavyweight Champion in TNA Wrestling. You are so focused on the little things, that you refuse to look at the big picture. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TNAWrestling (talk • contribs) 00:10, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am. Yes Shamrock was the first champion in TNA, but as the NWA World Champion. He is not a former TNA World Champion, and has nothing at all to do with this belt. They are seperate belts, with seperate title histories. TJ Spyke 00:15, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Uhh... actually Wikipedia does recognize WWF Light Heavyweight Champions before "TAKA"-- bulletproof 3:16 05:28, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  World Title History 

message: TNA took down the title history pages completely, but look at Christian Cage's profile: http://www.tnawrestling.com/roster/christiancage/index.html He is a 3-time World Heavyweight Champion, meaning 2-time NWA, and 1-time TNA. Kurt Angle is a 1-time World Heavyweight Champion: http://www.tnawrestling.com/roster/kurtangle/index.html So Christian Cage was the first ever TNA World Heavyweight Champion, and Kurt Angle the second. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MC511 (talk • contribs) 07:27, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Before they removed the title pages, that is how they listed Team 3D. It's pretty simple, Cage was the first TNA World Champion (making him a 3 time world champion) and Team 3D are the first TNA Tag Champions (making them 1 time NWA Tag Champions and 1 time TNA Tag Champions. TJ Spyke 22:28, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I agree with that, TNA has every right to recognize the world champions that they booked as their own. It's good that they're using the term World Heavyweight Champion in the wrestlers profiles instead of saying for example 2 time NWA World Champ, 1 time TNA World Champ. Makes it simple, 3 time world heavyweight champion in the company, because it's the truth. TonyFreakinAlmeida 16:59, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The IC Title example is WRONG. It's the same title, just the promotion changed names. The NWA Title and TNA Titles are SEPERATE. TJ Spyke 02:19, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, TNA acknowledged that the NWA title preceded the TNA title in the TNA world title history page, before they take it down that is.  By the way, how did someone retrieve a link to that page on TNA's web site.  When it was posted here I searched through TNA's site and the link to the NWA world championship history still only brought me to the page showing the NWA world champs of the TNA era, I wasn't able to find the TNA World Title history link.  Was that found through, "questionable means", of some sort?  To me it seems that TNA prematurely put the page online and someone found it. TonyFreakinAlmeida 15:49, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

text: We realize that, but Wrestling-titles is not an official source. TonyFreakinAlmeida 23:06, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Before they took down the page altogether, TNA did the same. TJ Spyke 23:07, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah but I'm wondering is how did someone find the link?  I searched through that site when the link was posted here, and could find nothing linking to that history. TonyFreakinAlmeida 16:25, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you were right, someone found it before TNA was ready to make it public. I don't know how, but i'm sure it's an easy thing to do if you know how. TJ Spyke 21:28, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I know this is sort of stupid but at the Slammiversary Fanfest, Borash asked Samoa Joe in front of the fans there if Joe will become the first TNA World Champion, Borash's words, don't know if this is a slip of the tongue or what, if you want to watch TonyFreakinAlmeida 21:02, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

text: What are you talking about? The on-screen graphic for Cage said "World Heavyweight Champion". TNA has only said Angle is the first "undisputed" champion since Angle's win at Sacrifice was controversial, but TNA does count Cage as the first champion and Angle the second and third. http://youtube.com/watch?v=Kfp17DpbcqA TJ Spyke 04:44, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

text: TNA says Cage is the first TNA Champion, and have always said that. END OF STORY. Nobody considers Angle the first champion (the only thing even close is them saying Angle is the first undisputed champion). TJ Spyke 04:06, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Multiple times if you wanted to read the rest of this page. Of is TNA saying Cage is a 3 time world champion (2 NWA, 1 TNA) and Angle a 2 time champion (both TNA) for no reason? TJ Spyke 06:38, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  1st Champion Conclusion

message: Christian Cage and Kurt Angle were both billed as 238lbs at TNA Sacrifice during the in-ring introductions.  Being that Christian walked in as champion and that was his first day as champion, and Kurt walked out as champion, they were both the same weight at the time of holding the title.  Someone keeps changing this though so that the weights go by each man's wikipedia page billed weight. It should go by what they were billed as that night, not average weight listed on the wikipages. TonyFreakinAlmeida 17:05, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stats 

message: So does the TNA World Heavyweight Title then take lineage to the NWA World Heavyweight Title branch of champions from June 2002 until May 2007 in TNA???? —Preceding unsigned comment added by MC511 (talk • contribs) 02:41, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: TNA reconizes those world title reigns, but as NWA Champions. They do not consider those people to be former TNA World Champions. TJ Spyke 03:00, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That wasnt the question. They can still link lineage even though they're not "TNA" World Champions, they're "NWA" World Champions. You just make a note of it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.68.62.143 (talk) 23:29, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Right now there is no proof they have the same lineage. TJ Spyke 00:05, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: NWA Title to TNA Title

message: Considering that the standard for wikipedia's idea of a World Title is PWI(of all things), does anyone have any idea whether or not PWI consider the TNA World Title to indeed be a World Title? Pretty pedantic I know, but possibly relevant....
:Not yet, but it probably will get the status from PWI, maybe once Slammiversary is over and an undisputed champion of the company has been crowned.  WCW got their status right after they declared their first champion, the NWA status was dropped right after.  I expect the same to happen here, I'm guessing it hasn't been awarded by PWI because they might be as confused as anyone as to who has held the TNA title.  TNA never officially announced or made note that Christian was declared their first champion except for on the title history page which has been removed, and the Kurt Angle win of the title is definitely a Dusty finish(a decision that would be overturned).  So it isn't known officially as of yet whether these two reigns will be recognized once TNA officially makes the page live on their site. TonyFreakinAlmeida 21:20, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: TNA '''World''' Title

message: I've added to the text as it's confusing why Cage isn't listed as the first TNA champion. Despite TNA not really alluding as to why he isn't - this is canon - Angle is the first. White43 21:12, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If Cage is the first champion - why not put him in the table? That's ridiculous. White43 21:14, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You can't say that Cage is the first champion and then not include him in the table. White43 21:16, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: TNA has only said Angle is the first undisputed champion, not the first champion. Cage wasn't listed in the table because an IP removed him. TJ Spyke 21:17, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I see. I thought it strange that Cage was not there. He should be added as the first champion on the 'list'. Cheers. White43 21:20, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  What are you talking about? I never messed up the table - didn't do anything to it! White43 21:22, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You may not have meant to, but you did. Here is your last edit to the page: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=TNA_World_Heavyweight_Championship&oldid=139987198. TJ Spyke 21:24, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

text:  Weird. Never touched the table. Anyway, glad to see it's all good. White43 21:27, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

text:  While that might be 'canon' for TNA history, in actuality Cage WAS the first champion.87.127.178.28 09:47, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Cage/Angle issue