Talk:Black theology

message: It'd be nice to also include Womanist theology on this page since it pertains. 24.136.20.236 09:41, 5 Jun 2005
I agree.  I it would also be good to include a seperate page on womanist theology generally.  DaveTroy 9 Dec 2005
I also agree  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.16.227.140 (talk) 13:28, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Womanist theology

message: I question the redirect from Black Theology, as there is a distinction between "Black theology" (theology by people who happen to be blacvk) and "Black Theology" (a particular school of theology). SteveH 03:56, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Black Theology vs Black theology  

message: Is there a separate page for South African Black theology, and its link to Black Consciousness? Shouldn't there at least be a mention of it here, with a link to another page if necessary?
Because of this omission, I've marked this pagfe as a stub SteveH 03:56, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  South African Black Theology 

message: i heard on glenn beck quote
"Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill all gods who do not belong to the black community. Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in black power which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love". anyone know if its true ???  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.80.96.75 (talk) 03:25, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I could find no reliable source to back it up.  The sources previously provided were all from opinion pieces which referenced each other. You provide no source other than Glenn Beck and that's definitely not good enough for it to remain.  Even if it is true, it looks to be another cherrypicked quote that hardly belongs in an encyclopedia article on black theology.  - Maximusveritas (talk) 03:53, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

text: But what's the context of him saying it?  Unless he said something like "Here's my definitive description of Black Theology" I don't see how it can be used.  It looks like it was just a passage that these sources pulled out of context in order to make Cone and black theology look bad.  - Maximusveritas (talk) 15:21, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  James Cone 

message: This section does not belong in this article.  The Barack Obama/Jeremiah Wright controversy belongs in Barack Obama presidential campaign, 2008 and in Jeremiah Wright.  johnpseudo 23:40, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Barack Obama section

message: To me it seems that you guys are not thinking critically about this issue. By the way, the author's name is JAMES CONE and not JAMES COHN. He systematized Black "Liberation" Theology which has been implicit in the ethos and pathos of African American preaching and Christianity since slavery. Black Liberation Theology is heavily influenced by Gustavo Gutiérrez Merino's Latin Liberation Theology. Latin Liberation Theology challenged the Catholic Church to become more active in reducing poverty. It also challenged the Catholic Church to deal with the concerns of real people and issues in third world Latin America. Both theologies cast Jesus as a Savior who liberates the poor and oppressed. Jesus is a underdog"Savior" who identifies with the dispised and the dejected. Learning to understanding Liberation Theology in it's proper context, regardles of whether it is"Black," Hispanic, Womanist or Gay theology, will provide the reader with a better understanding of Liberation as a historical movement instead of just a passing phenomenon. 
Liberation Theology is a champion of Social Justice and equality. In addition, it challenges systems, institutions and philosophies that promote any form of oppression or injustice. 
For the Liberation Theologian, Crucifixion is a symbolic martyrism (a death as a result of speaking truth to power and defending the voiceless) and Ressurection is viewed as a form of Revolution (vendication of a fight against oppressive systems, personalities or cultures). 
Liberation Theology also strongly critiques the Evangelical church for it's historic patterns of apathy and quiet complicitness with demonic(symbolic of oppression) influences, structures and systems of this world. Evangelical Theology (White Christian Theology) in the Liberation Theology perspective, is percieved as being TOO other-worldly and vertical. It is a theology of personal salvation that is not connected with social conscousness, justice and social-moral responsibility to the plight of those who live in the margins of society. As a result, to the Liberation Theologian, Evangelical Theology is percieved as anemic and irrelevant. 
(BACK TO JAMES CONE)
Therefore when James Cone suggests that "Blacks" should "KILL" God he is of course not speaking of an actual murder or abandoning his Christian FAITH. He is suggesting that African Americans should REJECT & DISMISS ANY THEOLOGICAL SYSTEM/RELIGIOUS UNDERSTANDING THAT INTERPRETS God as COMPLICIT IN A SYSTEM OF OPPRESSION or a hierachical arrangement in which someone has to be at the top and at the bottom. 
(Black Theology rejects Evangelical Theology because of the following:) 
In the subtext of Westernized Christainity, Christian Theology has adopted a White supremist model that has adopted to colonial culture. Jesus is always pictured as a "white" Italian with a British accent. This is the same Jesus that is prominently displayed in 1+ million dollar GOTHIC CATHEDRALS & STAIN GLASSED MURALS. The westernized Jesus is one who is PASSIVE, COMPLICIT, DETACHED, "UPPER-CLASS," accepted and unconcerned with confronting oppressive social systems. He is seen as a Jesus who is only interested in being loved, adored and worshipped. 
In the Liberation Theological construct, Jesus is viewed as one WHO CAME FOR THE PURPOSE OF REWRITING WRONGS, bringing a humanity that is disconnected from God and itself back in harmony. However, in Black Liberation Theology harmony is not just worship, adoration and praise, but it is also social-justice. Without social justice, humanity suffers from the sin of disconnection, racism, sexism, and all the other isms which creates the foundations of hierachical social and cultural arrangments (some one or group at the top crushing the one or the group at the bottom) 
((LASTLY))
Liberation Theology (Black, Womanist, Gay & etc) challenges believers to interpret God in a theological system that includes and NOT EXCLUDES them. For the African American God must be "BLACK" to identify with the unique struggles of African American people. So AGAIN for the BLACK LIBERATION THEOLOGIAN THE "WESTERN" GOD must be dethroned or "KILLED" because he does not identify with the heart, soul, authentic religious expression, cultural identity and struggles of African American people.  
Rev. Andre Lamont Leaphart, MAED, M. Div.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by EducateDaSoul (talk • contribs) 05:24, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  '' A Clear Understanding of Black Liberation Theology...This is Bigger than Dr. Jeremiah Wright or Senator Obama''' == 

message: With all due respect, this article does little more than display the ignorance of its authors.  To state that "Black theology" is a Christian Liberation theology is gravely simplistic and erroneous.  I'll try to re-do this article in the near future. Ewenss (talk) 05:27, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I added  to this article. If someone wishes to get a start on redoing this article, see http://home.earthlink.net/~ronrhodes/BlackTheology.html.  The article, up to the section  "Transcending Culture", does provide a very good overview of Black theology. Ewenss (talk) 22:01, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

text: Dr. Lang, the link between Black Liberation theology and Latin American strains are minimal at best.  The two grew out of separate situations.  Black Liberation theology is, more than anything, a reaction to non-Christian black nationalism and historically was an attempt to co-opt elements of black pride in that movement and to construct a new missiology of black Christianity that would draw away converts of black Islam and make it less attractive to blacks who had been reared in culturally assimilationsist strains of Christianity. In short, it grew out of the long historic battle between Islam and Christianity...although saying so makes for a very poor conservative radio talking point, so we mostly hear misinformation about it.  Ewenss (talk) 10:23, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article 

message: Hi, just passing through here.  From the article: Differences in the church deal with the realms of the sacred and secular, public and private, and the focus of the afterlife. These two ideas are foreign to black culture...  Which two of those five things are the two ideas that are foreign to black culture?  This needs clarification.  Cjoev (talk) 23:47, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's saying that the theology does not recognize the sacred/secular dichotomy that is, for example, part and parcel of Protestant dispensationalism. In this it shows its Calvinist roots in a way not shared by dispensationalists.  Ewenss (talk) 10:09, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unclear sentence 

message: In his recent speech at the National Press Club, Jeremiah Wright spoke at some length about the black church and black theology.  Among his comments (which you can see in full at the New York Times’ website) was the following:In the late 1960s, when Dr. James Cone's powerful books burst onto the scene, the term "black liberation theology" began to be used. I do not in any way disagree with Dr. Cone, nor do I in any way diminish the inimitable and incomparable contributions that he has made and that he continues to make to the field of theology. Jim, incidentally, is a personal friend of mine.I call our faith tradition, however, the prophetic tradition of the black church, because I take its origins back past Jim Cone, past the sermons and songs of Africans in bondage in the transatlantic slave trade. I take it back past the problem of Western ideology and notions of white supremacy.I take and trace the theology of the black church back to the prophets in the Hebrew Bible and to its last prophet, in my tradition, the one we call Jesus of Nazareth.
Of course, Wright is just one minister (albeit one who has brought black theology to a wider audience, due to the current presidential campaign).  I don't know how widespread his preferred terminology is, or whether it's sufficiently noteworthy to be included in this article.  But I wanted to draw this notion to the attention to the editors of this article, so that if it is noteworthy it can be included.
Incidentally, what's up with the poorly formatted and disorganized list of quotations from Cone's book?  Surely there's a better way to convey the central points of Cone's writing.  As it is, it looks as if someone's taken some of the most inflammatory sentences out of Cone's book and placed them in this article without any regard to context (not unlike the way that Rev. Wright's sermons were used). —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 04:32, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I checked the history, and they were all added en masse recently.  I think that without context these quotations don't illuminate the reader, so I've removed them.  (We should also remember that there are fair use concerns if an article contains too much quoted text.) —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 04:37, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

text: Wright is the most prominent minister of black theology and studied under a scholar who was a student of Cone. Cone cites Wright's church as the best example of the theology. It makes no sense other than "throw him under the bus" by excluding his contributions in this article. Wright may be unpopular in the mainstream press, but certainly has a large following as most of the African American press is largely supportive of him, his church and his message Bachcell (talk) 18:04, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not sure whether this is noteworthy or not... 

message: While a properly sourced discussion of criticisms of black theology is entirely appropriate, I'm worried that the recently added criticism section is not sourced to sufficiently reliable sources, and that the critics mentioned aren't particularly noteworthy.  In particular, the link to renewamerica.us is inappropriate: Renew America is a highly partisan source affiliated with Alan Keyes.  I'm not familiar with Robert A. Morley or Anthony Bradley, and neither has a Wikipedia page.  Of course, that alone is no reason to exclude their views, but it would be useful to readers to understand who these critics are and where they're coming from.  If Morley's views are truly noteworthy, they will have been published in a more reliable source.  I'll leave the material up for now, but if a better source isn't found soon it should be deleted.
The Bradley article appears to represent a legitimate theological criticism, and I believe that the Christian Post is a reputable organ of conservative evangelical thought.  But if anyone can find criticisms of black theology which antecede the current Jeremiah Wright controversy, and thus can't be seen as having election-year political undertones, that would be a big improvement.
Finally, I removed a completely unsourced paragraph  which seemed to me to be historically ignorant (suggesting that black theology had created a separation in the Church is silly, given that the historical separation of the white and black church in America rose out of racism and segregation, and antecedes James Cone's systematization by centuries). —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 19:44, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Criticism from a partisan source IS criticism. You can't blacklist white christian viewpoints any more than radical leftist afrocentric viewpoints, which black theology is. The paper cited by Jon is widely quoted by many internet articles, which makes it even more relevant whether or not Cone or Wright agrees with them. Bachcell (talk) 18:02, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It is criticism, but the question to be answered is whether it's noteworthy criticism.  If white conservative Christians have expressed critical views of black liberation theology, it should be possible to find those criticisms in reliable sources.  Renewamerica.us is not a reliable source.  There are dozens of reliable organs of conservative Christian thought, which would be appropriate sources.  Even among partisan sources, there are more noteworthy critics who have doubtless expressed their views on black liberation theology in the wake of the Wright controversy.  It's not about what Cone or Wright think, it's about Wikipedia's reliable source policy. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 03:09, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism section 

message: Someone is posting material all over the internet supposedly quoting this page and saying that this religion advocates the murder of white people.  Full text is below:
"This is Wikiepida's Definition on Black Liberation Theology
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_liberation_theology
The goal of black theology is not for special treatment. Instead, "All Black theologians are asking for is for freedom and justice and death to white people by any means at the disposal of black people. No more, and no less. In asking for this, the Black theologians, turn to scripture as the sanction for their demand. The Psalmist writes for instance, 'If God is going to see righteousness established in the land, he himself must be particularly active as 'the helper of the fatherless' [6] to 'deliver the needy when he crieth; and the poor that hath no helper.'[7]"[8]"
I would recommend locking the page to prevent these preposterous claims from gaining any further traction.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.204.28.25 (talk) 07:16, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: An anonymous vandal did add the text "and death to white people" to this page recently, but it was removed fairly swiftly.  The page can be protected if there's a spate of vandalism.  If people read this claim and have the sense to check the article, they'll see that the "death to white people" is not present. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 08:00, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggestion: Lock the page 

message: Here's the top Google results for BLT. Every single one refers to Cone/Wright version of the theology. According to Eweness, NONE of these hits is relevant to black theology, and any one who wants to research the controversy caused by Rev Wright's theology, which he identified as BLT, will find nothing in this article as some editor believes that only the point of view of an academic scholar of variations exclusing the Cone/Wright flavor should be included here.
News results for black liberation theology
WCSH-TV The Real Story Behind Rev. Wright's Controversial Black Liberation ... - 3 hours ago
In fact, the Vatican twice condemned the liberationists' acceptance of Marxism and violence, but just how does this relate to black liberation theology? ... 
FOXNews - 396 related articles » 
Black theology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaThe modern American origins of contemporary black liberation theology can be traced to July 31, 1966, when an ad hoc group of 51 black pastors, ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_theology - 46k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this 
Asia Times Online :: Asian News, Business and Economy.Mar 18, 2008 ... In the black liberation theology taught by Wright, Cone and Hopkins ... In this respect black liberation theology is identical in content to ...
www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/JC18Aa01.html - 40k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this 
A Black Theology of LiberationTo develop a theology that speaks to African-Americans, black liberation theologians such as James Cone begin with the person of Jesus, and specifically the ...
www.wfu.edu/~matthetl/perspectives/twentyseven.html - 14k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this 
A Closer Look at Black Liberation Theology : NPRMar 18, 2008 ... Black Liberation theology interprets the Bible and the gospels of Jesus through the struggle of African Americans against racism and ...
www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88512189 - Similar pages - Note this 
Black Liberation Theology, in its Founder's Words : NPRMar 31, 2008 ... The Rev. James H. Cone founded black liberation theology, which has roots in 1960s civil-rights activism. In an interview with Terry Gross, ...
www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89236116 - Similar pages - Note this 
American Thinker: The Real Agenda of Black Liberation TheologyMar 19, 2008 ... The sad truth is that neither the Reverend Wright nor black liberation theology is being misunderstood. Both, thanks to the candidacy of ...
www.americanthinker.com/2008/03/the_real_agenda_of_black_liber.html - 19k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this 
Black Liberation Theology in North America: Black Power vs. White ...The primary architect of Black Liberation Theology in North America is James Cone. A Protestant minister who grew up in Arkansas under the heavy hand of ...
atheism.about.com/od/theology/a/lib_black.htm - 26k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this 
What is Liberation Theology?However, Liberation Theology has moved from the poor peasants in South America to the poor blacks in America. We now have Black Liberation Theology being ...
www.gotquestions.org/liberation-theology.html - 11k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this 
Looking At Obama and Black Liberation Theology: WesternFront AmericaLooking At Obama and Black Liberation Theology: Barack Obama belongs to an unabashedly Black African-centered church. Its teachings focus on a «black value» ...
westernfrontamerica.com/2008/02/19/obama-black-liberation-theology/ - 138k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this 
Crunchy Con - Rod Dreher, Conservative blog, Beliefnet ...James Cone, the pioneer of black liberation theology, is a much-admired .... I have not been aware of the "Black" Liberation Theology until it came up ...
blog.beliefnet.com/crunchycon/2008/03/the-insanity-of-black-liberati.html - 50k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bachcell (talk • contribs) 17:59, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Try reading a book. Ewenss (talk) 05:35, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is Black Liberation Theology 

message: Per the (one!) response I got at WP:RSN#When is it appropriate to stub an article?, I've restored the material Ewenss had removed.  I hope that Ewenss will return and work with other editors to improve the material, and clarify the distinction between black theology and black liberation theology.  But until then, I think it's better to have an article with a few flaws than one giving no information at all. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 02:54, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Alright, so its one to one—actually, more than that, you can also see an African American doctoral student in theology weigh against this article's material as fair and accurate.  That wins, and you can find out who I am and know that I know somewhat I am talking about when I've said what I did above.  Ewenss (talk) 05:32, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Material restored, to be improved 

message: I come to Wikipedia to learn about Black liberation theology, and I get "List of Books About Black Theology," and a note on the talk page that I need to go read those books.
Come on, guys.  Surely we can agree on a few non-controversial sentences that at least give people some idea what the hell Black liberation theology is (and how it differs from "Black theology")??  This article is worse than a stub - it doesn't even define its subject.  Are we really deciding, after all this talk, that despite having about two hundred sources, we're incapable of writing a single sentence??! --71.83.118.171 (talk) 15:31, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Feel free to read the sources in the bibliography and do that yourself rather than chide others for the matter. Ewenss (talk) 17:00, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems to me, Ewenss, that you are repeatedly blanking sections of this article, essentially claiming ownership of it, and that you're the reason that no article exists on this subject.  Just an observation.  --71.83.118.171 (talk) 17:46, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

text: I read the article on "Black Theology".  I regret that I do not have time to edit the article.  However, I think the article provides a very good summary and directs the reader to a number of credible sources.  Thanks for maintaining an internet site for quality information on black theology.
Ewenss (talk) 17:09, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  What a terrible article 

message: The African American experience of slavery formed the theology, yet the word 'slavery' has been absent in the main body of the article. Black theology existed in popular religion and in abolitionist thought long before Dr. Cone's articulation. The Hebrew experience of God is that of slavery, liberation and divine promises of land which is the black experience in the American Civil War and the Reconstruction. The black theology of Dr. Cone has roots not in the seminary, but in the popular religion of black folk. The historical kergyma of black preachers in this country has had the elements of Dr. Cone's conceptualization. Here is a bibliography I collected recently on the subject: https://www.worldcat.org/profiles/greycloud/lists/3545752 Church of the Rain (talk) 22:18, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  God 

message: There has been a lot of discussion above about liberation theology and black liberation theology, but there has not really been much discussion of the relationship between black theology and black liberation theology. Reading through both of the articles, it seems as though the main point of black liberation theology is the American regional variant and originator of black theology, with particular (appropriate) emphasis on James Cone. I therefore propose that these two articles be merged into black theology, with a new section for the American origins and development. Having these two articles separate is incredibly confusing to the average reader, especially as both articles use the terms interchangeably. Caorongjin (talk) 23:59, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal to merge black liberation theology 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I challenged two specific statements in this section because I can't seem to find or recall statements to this effect in my study of Christianity. That's not to say it's not there. I just need someone to better clarify these statements. 
More importantly, the entire paragraph seems to be lifted almost word for word from the cited work. The work itself is a non-referenced guidebook on various movements incorporating Christianity and is not the most rigorous. If this were a self-evident assertion ("the sky is blue"), it would be enough. But because it's not a mainstream teaching, at least not in my experience, I feel we need more evidence than what can be gleaned from Amazon's free preview of a chart book to keep these assertions in the article. -- Srwalden (talk) 06:46, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I see that your tags still haven't been addressed. I agree that entire paragraph needs a lot of work, as most of the claims are unsourced and unattributed. I just made an initial edit of this paragraph, which hopefully addressed most of the concerns. Stonkaments (talk) 23:56, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inline Challenges to Specific Items in On God and Jesus Christ