Talk:Susan Stanton

message: I'm not sure the nondiscrimination policies currently cited in the  Reaction section of the article would prohibit the City discriminating against Stanton.
Article text currently reads " If the vote to fire Stanton is upheld, the City of Largo will be in contravention of its own non-discrimination employment policies," citing | A-3. Implementation of Discrimination and Harassment Prohibition Policy.
The source, dated in October 2003, reads:
:::A-3. Implementation of Discrimination and Harassment Prohibition Policy
:::Human Resources Director Sinz reports that the City Commission has approved the Discrimination and Harassment Prohibition policy effective immediately. The new policy specifically prohibits bias, prejudice, intimidation, coercion and harassment by any City employee at the work place, during business trips, or at City functions. The new policy mandates treating all human beings with respect regardless of race, religion, national origin, gender, age, disability, sexual orientation, and gender identity or expression. Any verbal, physical, or visual conduct that belittles, demeans, denigrates, or shows hostility toward an individual or group will disciplined up to and including discharge.
The policy thus mandates "treating human beings with respect" with regards to gender identity/expression, but does not actually say prohibit employment discrimination based on gender identity/expression.  Given that in 2003 the city had just undergone a contentious debate specifically about whether or not to include gender identity/expression in its human rights ordinance -- a battle which was lost by those opposing discrimination -- I doubt the city would have implemented a nondiscrimination policy for city workers. -- Yksin 01:17, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Oh yeah, the city was essentially saying, "We'll be civil to you even as we continue to violate your rights to fair treatment."  I'll try to come up with language that takes care my issue without losing this source. Great find! -- Yksin 01:40, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  HA!  Well it turns out that the policy is in fact an anti-discrimination policy covering city workers, passed unanimously by the city commissioners in October 2003 just a couple months after a city-wide antidiscrimination ordinance failed.  Found a newspaper article saying so. So you were right to begin with.  Will be adding citation info for the article I found. --Yksin 19:50, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

text: Now do we need to find somebody who states the opposite to maintain balance (NPOV)? ZueJay (talk) 20:08, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  City of Largo nondiscrimination policies 

message: The article is leaning a little heavily towards the current controversy. It'd be nice to fill it out with some additional biographical information. I've added what I could in that regard but have run dry - Alison<talk> 01:30, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed there.  I picked up some additional sources online yesterday that help to fill out some of the picture, but haven't yet had time to add them in.  But I'm also betting Stanton shows up in some print directory or Who's Who of city officials, which can probably help out with other aspects of his biography.  I've already got another person I need a trip to the library for; I'll just add Stanton to my list. --Yksin 01:36, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I think that's basically it. He was rather a quiet city official until this brouhaha erupted. In fact, in today's Tampa Tribune, some people were interviewed and told the reporter that they couldn't have told you who Steve Stanton even was before this happened. Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 03:05, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's all I've found (online anyway). Is there a citation for his wife's name? I can't seem to find a source... ZueJay (talk) 03:12, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, the source given for his wife's name actually only gives her first name, not her surname. --Yksin 03:29, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: While not published, it is certainly public (the Pinellas County Clerk of the Circuit Court gives many public documents with the name "Donna Becker Stanton"). Wouldn't that be enough? It'd be a bit cumbersome to cite a random leasing agreement from the search results to prove that this is her name. Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 04:30, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There are proper ways to cite legal documents properly. Unfortunately, I've had persistent problems accessing anything on the site, apparently because my home connection through my ISP doesn't give me a stable IP, & at work there are numerous computers all going through as the same IP address through a common router or whatever, & tech support at the Pinellas County Clerk's site told me maybe I can't access because we've already had our tally of 50 access from our IP for they day.  From Alaska...?  right.  And I'm not about to cough up $60 to have paid access. Even though it would be nice to look up some info about some of my relatives who lived in Pinellas County too.... So maybe someone else can access this site so we can tie up our loose strings by having a cite on her maiden name.  I'm wiped out, & going on to other things... like maybe some wine & a Xena DVD.... Cheers! -- Yksin 03:09, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Biographical information 

message: I've got access to Newsbank, a newspaper database covering newspapers from all over the country, & just did some looking up.  Found a bunch of stuff to help fill out his career.  Will start adding some of the info thus derives after I've eaten. --Yksin 03:29, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Other bio content

message: Based on the career info I've found, he's got an M.A. in Public Administration & most of all of his career has been as a public administrator, in Berea, KY & Largo, FL.  (Again, will add these facts & my citations after I've eaten.)  But that's a different story from standing for public election, which is what politicians do.  Isn't it?  He's worked for the pols, but he's not a pol himself.  So I would reckon the categorization as a politician oughtta be removed.  This is the logic I used in not categorizing him as a politician when I created this article yesterday. --Yksin 03:29, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, based on the discussion of Politician in Wikipedia, which helpfully gives a link to the Merriam-Webster dictionary definition, I can live with the characterization of Stanton as a "politician."  -- Yksin 04:08, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Trust me. From personal experience, he is a consumate politician and an outstanding public servant.  Cheers, :) MikeReichold  03:51, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Does he really count as a "politician"?

message: Other than minor fix-it edits, I'm done for now.  Thanks everyone else who also contributed to this article, & to all those who will keep contributing to it. --Yksin 03:11, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Done for now 

message: FYI, here's the style I was using -- pretty easy to keep consistent especially when almost everything here was a newspaper article.
Lastname, Firstname. (yyyy-mm-dd). [URL "Article name."] Newspaper name.  Retrieved on yyyy-mm-dd.</ref>
Example:
Helfand, Lorri. (2007-03-01). "Stanton: Abrupt firing a surprise." St. Petersburg Times.  Retrieved on 2007-03-01.
Produces:Helfand, Lorri. (2007-03-01). "Stanton: Abrupt firing a surprise." St. Petersburg Times. Retrieved on 2007-03-01.
What's really nice too I can be remember this style without having to go back to copy & paste from compicated template, if I have to do a cite on the fly.  (It helps that I know HTML, so I'm accustomed to using tags.)
FWIW, YMMV. --Yksin 07:29, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Personally, that seems a reasonable style; very similar to the style we used in school. (PS - I like that - YMMV - cute) ZueJay (talk) 05:06, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Example of the citation style used by [[User:Yksin|Yksin]]

message: ===March 3, 2007===
Not done after all, I guess -- added some info today on results of a public survey about the Stanton firing by the St. Petersburg Times and confirmation that the National Center for Lesbian Rights is working with Stanton to try to reverse the commission's decision.  Also some external links.  As well did some reorganization of sections & subsections. Cheers. --Yksin 04:21, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Summary of changes/additions to article

message: Not done after all, I guess -- added some info today on results of a public survey about the Stanton firing by the St. Petersburg Times and confirmation that the National Center for Lesbian Rights is working with Stanton to try to reverse the commission's decision.  Also some external links.  As well did some reorganization of sections & subsections. Cheers. --Yksin 04:21, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: March 3, 2007

message: Addition re: support of local interfaith religious coalition. Some section header/subheader renaming. --Yksin 18:39, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: March 5, 2007

message: Updated with info re: Stanton's appeal of his firing made yesterday; re: protest at City Hall March 6; pronoun usage also now addressed in article with cite to a credible news source. --Yksin 00:38, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: March 8, 2007

message: I think this article is really, really cool, and when the outcome is known this really ought to be taken to FA. My only issue is that there are too many subsections. Really, you need to merge half these sections into some really good paragraphs, not separate them into bitty half paragraphs with catchy titles. It'll look absolutely fabulous then. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 22:45, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sections. 

message: Be careful when moving or revising text, or even just in breaking it into different paragraphs: citations sometimes are lost that way, or sometimes a cite that covered facts contained in an entire para no longer cover those facts if the paragraphs are broken in two. This is especially problematic when not all the sources (such as the stuff from older articles out of Newsbank) are not available to all editors. Thanks. --Yksin 01:24, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Noted. ZueJay (talk) 05:45, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Caution when moving or revising text 

message: Hate to be the downer on this but... the article lacks balance with regards to Stanton's dismissal as city manager. The viewpoint of the LGBT community and locals who support Stanton is well addressed; however, the opposing viewpoint is not. For instance, actual statements from city commissioners regarding the dismissal or folks, organizations, etc. who support the majority opinion of the city commission should be included. Unfortunately, I have looked for this kind of info on the net and have not met with success. Maybe ya'll can help out on this one? ZueJay (talk) 05:45, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed.  Needs NPOV.  --Yksin 19:11, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV? 

message: There's something wrong with the wording regarding the motion to fire Stanton.
:On 23 March during a six-hour meeting of Largo city council, the motion was made to terminate Stanton's employment. Commissioner Black tabled a motion to terminate the city manager's contract of employment. After a brief deliberation, this was upheld by five of the commissioners while Mayor Pat Gerard and Commissioner Rodney Woods dissented. Thus, at five minutes past midnight, Stanton's employment officially ended.
This wording says (1) someone moved to fire him, (2) Black moved to NOT vote on whether to fire him, (3) everyone agreed to NOT FIRE him, (4) therefore he WAS fired.  That doesn't make sense, and can't be what happened.  The linked source is dead, so I cannot check what actually happened according to that source.  The City of Largo webpage has the meeting agenda and text of the resolution but does not yet have minutes specifying how the actual meeting took place.  
--zandperl 03:29, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Firing motion 

message: The image is from the St. Pete Times. We need to replace this copyrighted image with a PD or copyleft image. Cheers, :) MikeReichold  14:28, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In this case I think the article is better served with not having a picture for the time being.  At least until Ms. Stanton can sit for a photoshoot, of some kind, and perhaps be asked to let us use such a photo, under the gfdl, to represent her here.  You know perhaps at some point she will have some pictures taken explicitly for publicity prupoes, which we may be able to justify using on a fair use basis (most likely what will happen) Frankly the current photo is well I feel it is it self POV.  It makes her look bad.  --Hfarmer 20:51, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

text: I have found evidence in the form of a YouTube video of a TV news broadcast on this topic that will shed some light on the use of this photo.  Youtube Video:"Terminated employment: Transgernder City Manager S. Stanton"  According the the news reporter this picture was taken in the course of a "official photo shoot".  Consider that the news paper got this picture for publicity purposes from Ms. Stanton.  Therefore use of this picture should be a clear case of a fair use.  I don't see any reasonable complaint ever arising from it's inclusion here. --Hfarmer 18:37, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image of Susan 

message: Susan Stanton was an honorary marshal at Atlanta Pride this past weekend, and will be the grand marshal at St. Pete Pride this coming weekend. Considering her newfound support in the GLBT community, this should be added, I would think. Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 05:11, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The parade is on Saturday and no doubt she'll be the center of attention. I can try. Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 15:21, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Marshal at Pride Parades

message: (post by sock of permanently banned user Amorrow removed)
:The person is notable.  That is what is required to have a bio of her on WP.  Since that is the case, then details to make the best biography possible on WP are important.  The words and experiences of the subject are relevant.  Aleta 21:40, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Words vs. deeds 

message: Article goes back and forth. What's your pleasure?   Dlohcierekim  00:58, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This can be fairly typical for any transgendered person.  To use the feminine pronouns in the past is arguably revisionist history, and likely to make some unsual situations, such as in my case: "She then entered the Army, and was assigned to Fort Benning, which is a male-only Basic Combat Training facility." The facility didn't spontaneously become female accepting simply because I went there, rather at the time everyone (myself included) were fairly and reasonably convinced that I were a male.  So, a typical behavior or some parents, and other people is to refer to the person by the pronouns appropriate at the time that the event occured.  Thus, "He then entered..." but that could be followed by "looking back at her experiences at Fort Benning..."  Which yes is confusing, which is why most people opt for the revisionist method.  In either case, general use, one should refer to a person by the pronouns that they would prefer, even if that ends up making a revision to history. --Puellanivis (talk) 18:54, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Has Stanton completed his/her transition? S/he stated that s/he would prefer to be referred to by male pronouns until the transition was completed. Asarelah (talk) 15:17, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Basically what we should do is determine what her lived gender was when the various events happend, and apply the appropriate pronoun in accord with that lived gender.  What concerns me most is that list little tidbit about larry king, was Stanton not fully socially transitioned at that time?--Hfarmer (talk) 04:54, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  masculine or feminine pronoun 

message: I know Stanton's gender identity is female, but what's her sexual orientation? Her desire to remain married to her wife suggests she's a lesbian or bisexual, but saying she's lesbian or bi would be synthesis. Does anyone know of any articles that can be referenced that state her orientation and not just her gender identity? --- cymru lass (hit me up)⁄(background check) 01:58, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sexual orientation? 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Susan Stanton. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090411041625/http://blogs.tampabay.com:80/breakingnews/2009/04/stanton-gets-city-manager-job-in-lake-worth.html to http://blogs.tampabay.com/breakingnews/2009/04/stanton-gets-city-manager-job-in-lake-worth.html
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Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 19:41, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified