Talk:David Beckham/Archive 1

message: He is a "meterosexual"????
The front page of USA Today on Friday May 9th stated that Beckham is the most famous athlete in the world, except in the USA.  I had seen the movie Bend It Like Beckham a few weeks ago, so I had heard of him, but I had not realized that he was not a fictional character until I saw that story three days ago.  So USA Today was probably right. Michael Hardy 22:34 May 12, 2003 (UTC)
----Should "World Club Championship" be "World Cup Championship"?
No, he was sent off in the World Club Championship. January 7, 2000 in the game against Necaxa for a thigh-high challenge against Jose Milan in the 42nd minute, if you care.
------
"They have two sons, Brooklyn ... and Romeo". Isn't "Romeo" an unusual name for a boy?
S.
tjgthghgb
   Everything about Beckham is unusual.. webkid 14:25 15 Jul 2003 (UTC)
::Er.. more unusual for a girl. See Romeo and Juliet.Rich   Farmbrough 14:41, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Opening comments

message: Does anyone else think that there should be a better/bigger homepage pic of Becks, probably without the woolly hat on? Wattylfc 11:22, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: New homepage pic

message: I am uncertain how everyone will feel about this, but the news article link that was just added to entertainment dash news dot org was added by somebody going through and linking to his (minimally useful) site on several celebrity articles.  In most cases he provided a link to an alleged general news site for the celebrity in question, sites which basically give the equivalent of a Google news search with a bunch of additional articles that also claim to be related but are not.  I'm removing these links, but since the link on this page actually goes to a real article, I'm going to leave it. Jdavidb 20:36, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible wikispam? 

message: I don't see it mentioned a single bit in the article. There was a big ruckus back then. Anyone care to contribute?
:Was there ever any evidence, apart from Loos' claim, that there was any truth in it? -- Arwel  21:35, 29 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: About facts: It is a fact she made the allegations, and it is a fact he dismissed them, both views which are presented in the article. And that is what an encyclopedia should do, to show what has hapened neutrally and then let people make up their own minds. Removing it because you think Beckham might not like it here, is censorship as I see it, when the only thing done is citing news sources. The main point for me is, that both sides are quoted on a matter which was pretty big as it went on, and if people want to read about Beckham, it would be skewed if they did not get to read the full story. Poulsen 11:17, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree. The fact is that Beckham is about as famous for his off-field behaviour as he is for his actual playing career. This article is too chained to a dull chronological format, listing one season after another after another. This is 'factual' by and large yes, but it shouldn't ignore the fact that the cult of celebrity surrounding Beckham is possibly the greatest factor of all. On playing terms alone Beckham has been no better than numerous other players, but in terms of celebrity he has been unprecedented. Gunstar hero 13:48, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  His affair with Rebecca Loos 

message: This article is wholly positive and comment must be made of
His extramarital affairs (not necessarily bad in themselves) - but coupled with a media-promoted image of family wholesomness.
His rank unprofessionalism - his frequent arrogent dissent against officals, his undue influence on the England team tactical plans, the kick in '98, the "clever" foul in '03, his consistent refusal to play on the right of midfield. Generally, the negative effect of his ego on the performance of the England team as a whole.
The merit of his OBE - he has never lifted a trophy as England captain.
Only Bobby Moore has ever lifted a trophy as England Captain. 
:As far as I know, it has never been proven that he has had any extramarital affairs. I would not believe anything published in the likes of the News of the World unless it had a certificate of authenticity signed by the Pope and the Dalai Lama, especially since his accusers seem to be making the allegations for what they can get from the papers. As to the WC '98 foul and the sending off against Wales in '03, have you tried reading the article? Both incidents are fully described in it. -- Arwel 10:11, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Negative comments 

message: This article doesn't have a single pic, no mention of his extramarital affairs, his negative aspects as mentioned above. It seems to be totally focussing on his positive side and is somewhat POV. PLEASE HELP!!!!!--May the Force be with you!  Shreshth91($ |-| r 3 $ |-| t |-|) 05:36, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please, cleanup 

message: I'd like to get this article up to featured status, but there's a lot of work to do.  I'd like to merge the England stuff in with his club career and create new sections, but thought I'd mention it here first and see if anyone had any objections.  If I've not heard anything in a few days I'll go ahead.  CTOAGN 12:06, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It's too long, and contains too much gossip column materials and speculations.  Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. Mandel 09:27, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

text: I don't want to go back to separate sections - in Beckham's case they're all too closely linked.  I'll put a few more sub-headings in though - should make it easy to find what you're looking for.  The wedding needs expanding into at least a paragraph anyway. CTOAGN 13:49, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I totally disagree.  I agree with Canthony.  As of now, a season-by-season structure is too football-centric for people who knows nuts about football (the very people this encyclopedia is supposed to benefit).  I took one good look at the article and decided not to go through it in detail.  Merely glimpsing through it gives me headaches.  Must I wield through all those garbage before I find something about his personal life, like his marriage with Victoria and Rebecca Loos.  Who on earth remembers which season he marries Victoria Adams except die-hard soccer fans? Structurally if this stays like this I'll never support the feature article status. Mandel 10:32, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Major edit 

message: I've removed Category:Jewish-British people — as far as I can check, his mothers' father was Jewish, though her mother was not, which means thst neither DB nor his mother are Jewish. -- Arwel (talk) 02:36, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Dude, he's still an Ethnic Jew. Paulus Caesar 15:02, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Category:Jewish-British people

message: Is it worth adding this as one of his nicknames, or would it be a cheap shot? Estrellador* 13:14, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I just once recall hearing it, from an English commentator when Beckham scored a goal. Peoplesunionpro 17:22, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  It looks like it has already been added. It is used quite frequently by the press; for example a quick search engine check: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/sport/sport.html?in_article_id=363733&in_page_id=1867 "It's a Goldenballs-up". I'm not sure of the precise origin. I think Victoria may have used it first, in fact. Also it is usually used as one world rather than two like in the current version of the Wikipedia article. Gunstar hero 13:32, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Goldenballs 

message: From the second paragraph:
"Beckham's exit was described as "the longest walk off a pitch ever". Simeone later admitted he had intentionally dove. He became, for a time, figure of public hatred among many English football supporters. He continued to play well and helped United win the league, FA Cup, and UEFA Champions League the following year."
So who became a figure of public hatred? Simeone for the dive or Beckham for the red card? Then who continued to play well? I assume it's Beckham but it's not a 100% clear there either. I was going to fix it but the hated section is just too confusing CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 04:40, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it was DB. -- Arwel (talk) 11:14, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: OK so DB continued to play well but who was hated? The assumption I would have is Simeone but it's not clear as the article is about DB. Think of it from the angle of someone for whom English is not their first language. English is my only language but the majority of people I know have English as their second and sentences like that can cause confusion. I sometimes get a friend to read through some of the articles to see if they can understand them and that sentence was pointed out to me. Thanks. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 16:19, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yeah that's not totally clear. As far as I remember Simeone was hated by the press, but Beckham was also 'blamed' for England's defeat (which was a really tenuous notion, but one which remained enduringly popular especially from people who didn't really watch the game).
In some ways Beckham's 'sending off' was one of the events that brough him such a huge public profile in England/Britain. In his later career this event would often be referred to as some kind of anchor or catalyst to his later success. The article doesn't seem to make much of this. 
Gunstar hero 13:38, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Unclear section

message: I've commented out the following as it's full of personal opinions and a bit of a rant:
Many critics argue that Beckham's fame is a direct result of him being a pop-star footballer, that is, he is better known for his pop-star looks and marketing potential than his actual ability on the field. Critics including the likes of Thierry Henry and Samuel Eto'o also point out that other than Beckham's expertise in dead-ball situations (ie. corners and free-kicks) he contributes nothing towards other areas as his defensive skills are poor and he lacks the pace and dribbling ability usually associated with wide midfielders. Some critics also believe that Real Madrid signed Beckham more for his off-field ability than on it, i.e. to sell more Real Madrid jerseys and to crack to the lucrative Asian market where Beckham had a large number of existing fans. 
Further more, Beckham's soft-spoken character has led to doubts about his leadership quality. Despite Beckham having never captained either Manchester United or Real Madrid, Beckham was chosen by Eriksson as captain due to his relative experience as the England team was going through a rebuilding phase after Euro 2000 (Most England veterans such as Tony Adams and Alan Shearer had retired from international football). His failure to inspire his teammates in times of need against teams of real quality were evident in important tournaments such as World Cup 2002 and Euro 2004, yet Eriksson has repeatedly stuck by him. This, coupled with Beckham's increasingly erratic performances for England in recent months, has led to public outcries to demote Beckham from the captaincy and appoint a new successor in time for the 2006 World Cup. Touted heirs include Steven Gerrard and John Terry, two players arguably more influential to the England team than Beckham, as well as being more vocal and substantially younger, thus it seems that Beckham's days as Captain are numbered.
Putting "many critics argue that..." and then slagging the guy off doesn't fit in well with Wikipedia:Avoid weasel words.  If the quotes from Henry and Eto'o are true (they sound like exaggerations) then they should be cited in the Notes section.  CTOAGN (talk) 23:48, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree that the removed text was unsubstantiated, but the fact is that anyone who spends even a brief amount of time listening to discussions of Beckham in English sporting culture and in newspapers, etc. is aware that such doubts exist and that part of Beckhan's legacy will be the dubious relationship between fame and actual on-field performance. It is necessary for these opinions to be represented, but proper sources need to be found in order that they appear as more than mere speculation.   Gunstar hero 13:58, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism section 

message: If Beckham is married he should not be gay.
:Metrosexual does not mean gay you numpty Bombot 12:17, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Metrosexual 

message: 4 out of 5 quotations are negative. Is this balanced enough? 80.229.160.150 16:28, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  quotations section 

message: Pages for most footballers have useful stuff like a list of honours won by them. Has this honestly never been done for Beckham or is there a good reason why it isn't here? aLii 19:09, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of Honours? 

message: The "References" section as of 15:08, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You shouldn't have changed it.  Say someone is looking up an uncontroversial fact such as his date of birth.  It's only fair to list the reference that they get it from, but there is no need for a footnote saying where it came from.  I had some arguments about this when I was trying to get Denis Law featured (link) and now use footnotes a bit less.  Deleting sources that other editors have added is definitely wrong though, unless you're certain they're bogus.  CTOAGN (talk) 21:34, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

text: What you cite as References isn't detailed enough. A book is not a useful reference unless you give the page number. You then need to cite the reference in the text where it is relevant, what did you think the "ref" function was for? Making notes? What is listed in the "Notes" section is a list of references. I am not going to go out of my way to change it back, but you should learn the difference and get the References section corrected. aLii 16:59, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: References

message: I added a section called Fame Beyond Football, as this whole article was totally oriented around his career in football. Yet he is famous well beyond football. To keep it limited to just his footballing exploits would be POV.
I pulled a few scraps of stuff from throughout the article together, together with my own summary. But it dores need a bit of tighter editing.--Richardb43 05:07, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fame Beyond football 

message: That waxwork picture makes him look like a Nazi. Jooler 15:13, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: waxwork

message: :despite figuring lowly in the fans' rankings on the BBC website.
I removed the above note because a) the provided ref is a self-selected internet poll and as such does not meet WP:V standards, and b) the wording was misleading; Beckham is ranked fourth highest English player in that poll. --Muchness 06:48, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But 16th overall. Definitely MOTM.  SLUMGUM  yap  stalk  23:12, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Trinidad and Tobago rating

message: User ChaChaPhut's edit places this page at odds with Larsson's - can we establish which is correct, the fifth player to score in three world cup finals or the 24th?  Whatever the real picture we should at least be consistent.
::Actually I have edited a few players' pages (although not Larsson's). I am also concerned on all the different versions I have seen here on different pages. I have posted this in other pages, but I will repeat it here hoping this will help us get it right. ChaChaFut 00:38, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Discrepancy with [[Henrik_Larsson|Larsson's]] page?

message: I've reverted a change by an anonymous user claiming that Beckham relinquished his captaincy yesterday. Has there been some sort of an annoucement is is this user mistaken. I haven't heard anything. Also, this user changed Coca-coal to Pepsi (see the quote about him being as recognisable as major MNC). This is not the first time this has happened. It's a quotation and not a list of products he advertises. If any user, with anonymous or not, reads this and is about to make the change the please don't. hedpeguyuk 2 July 2006, 10:35 (UTC)
:You assumed bad faith by not believing him. Skinnyweed 13:36, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no idea how you've got that idea. - Motor (talk) 13:55, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

text: No idea where you're getting the Coca-Cola thing from, he's always been on Pepsi adverts around Europe. I won't change it though, I'll wait for you to confirm it. Hardfl1p 19:45, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Read it again. It is a quote from the source supplied. Beckham himself is a brand name "like Coca Cola and IBM". It's not a list of brands he endorses. - Motor (talk) 18:56, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Captain

message: Hello, this might be a silly question, but anyone can tell me how to pronounce his lastname as /bake-kam/ or /bake-ham/. If possible IPA might be great. Thank you. --Manop - TH 18:34, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't know IPA but the h is completely silent, if I wanted to spell it phonetically I would use 'bek-uhm' i.e the 2nd sylable is not pronounced as in gum but more as a grunt, most words ending in ham in English are pronounced uhm, Birmingham, Nottingham etc Bob Palin 22:03, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The IPA pronunciation is . --Muchness 22:25, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks so much for both of you. I really appreciate --Manop - TH 08:29, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation 

message: So Becks suffers from OCD wow that's bad, but he seems to keep it under control.--NeilEvans 16:43, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If there are any interviews that can be drawn from to add from this article, maybe it would be quite interesting if there is any comment from him about it, whether and how it has affected his development as a player. I cannot help but consider the possibility that it helped him develop his dead ball skills. (so much training, from childhood) Peoplesunionpro 17:24, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: OCD

message: I'm thinking about asking for an SProtect on this psge. Anyone object? If not, I'll nominate it; the vandalism is getting bad. -Patstuart 17:22, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  SProtect 

message: I would like to ask for a discussion on this. I appreciate the need to control an excessive number of external links but WP:EL does have a section called "what should be linked to" and it is possible for "well put together" fansites to qualify. For example some fansites have biographies that are more extensive than those cited in the article. Some have extensive article archives, public domain fair-use photos and or detailed statistics a case can be made in some instances that they do provide useful info that is not suitable for inclusion directly in the article. What is the objective of removing all carte blanche and can some compromise be reached if sites ask whether they have sufficient content to constitute a site that should be linked to? Is to dismiss all of these sites, some of which have involved literally years of work, as having nothing to add, in the best interests of wikipedia's users? --Jackfan222 18:08, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you have one or more specific examples, please include them here. Normally I (among others) are in the habit of removing fansites because they are usually spam. I don't think I've removed any from this article, but I can understand why others did. Nevertheless, do you have some good examples? Fansites can be relevant, but, if you ask me, the onus is more on them to prove their relevancy than for the remover to prove the non-relevancy. -Patstuart(talk)(contribs) 21:46, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of fansites as spam citing WP:EL 

message: Sure, he didn't publicly say to the press that he was a Christian, but I remember watching a show a while back about celebrities and religion. It turns out (according to the show, which I cannot remember the name of) that Beckham and his wife, Victoria, built a chapel in their backyard. If that's not convincing enough (which it probably isn't, due to my not being able to back it up), David Beckham has a clearly visible tattoo of a Christian cross on his neck (?). It's fair to say that that is a large, publicly visible statement of Christianity. Your thoughts? Anton1234 18:05, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, that'd help out a lot, but I remember very little. I think it was on Star TV, or E! Weekly, two Canadian celebrity broadcasts. I'll check their website, but I don't expect to find much. Anton1234 01:02, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So, put it in? Anton1234 03:19, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Religion