Talk:Misyar marriage

message: So obviously this article is pretty contentious, it's a controversial topic and a lot of people have varying opinions about it, and that's fine.
However, I beg of you, have some consideration for my mother tongue. If you aren't amazing at English, and there's no shame in that if you're a native speaker of another language, please leave the article alone and instead ask for edits here in the talk page.
إلى الزائر الذي يزر الصفحة، و يريد أن يغير الصفحة، و ليس متحدث انكليزي أصلي
أرجوك أن لا تغير الصفحة بنفسك! بدلا من ذلك، تأتي هنا على صفحة الحديث، و تطلب التغير من واحد الذي يتحدث اللغة الأنكليزية أصليا، من شأن الحفاظ على جودة الكتابة   Meowtiger (talk) 01:13, 16 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quality of Writing 

message: *Misyar Marriage or "travellers marriage" is a modern Sunni innovation.
Isnt that obvious? Its Sunni since Bin Baaz is Sunni and since its used in Sunni countrys. Its not used in shia or jewish countrys... I dont get what is disputed about that. And its a inovation since its not Sunnah.
Misyar has been practiced in Saudi Arabia and Egypt for years. It was officially legalized by the Egyptian Sunni Imam Sheikh Mohammed Sayyed Tantawi in February 1999, and the Mufti of Egypt has also been defending the arrangement of misyar. 
*Basically, it is a marriage without the couple living together in the same house or the husband being financial responsible for his wife.
This kind of marriage relieved them from any of the financial burdens or responsibilities of ordinary marriage. In the mesyar (traveler) marriage, men are not obliged to spend on their wives and children according to an agreement made between the couple. 
Misyar is an official relationship between man and woman, but does not involve that the two live together, nor that the man is economically responsible. 
* The intent of divorce, is assumed in this type of marriage, but the time of divorce must  remain hidden for the wife.
Misyar has many similarities with mut'a, practiced in Shi'i Islam, except for the preceding definition of duration. 
 the Misyar has no certain date for divorce, and it is up to the man to divorce his wife whenever, or if ever, he feels like doing so. 
It goes without saying that valid marriage should not be limited to a certain period of time; otherwise it will be reckoned as a Mut`ah (temporal) marriage which is prohibited in Islam. 
In other words, the time of divorce must remaing secret for the wife, for otherwise it will be equitad with Nikah Mutah by Sunni scholars.
I hope this will be to your satisfaction and that you will now remove the pov sign and the "source needed" requests.
--Striver 11:38, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Totally disputed 

message: This needs citations and commonality... It doesn't show how prevalent it is... which, from the obscurity of the topic... it isn't exactly prevalent.  In any case I believe unless this is cited by decent sources it should be cut down drastically.  gren グレン 01:46, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: There are a great amont of external links provided, you are welcome to sift them for better reference. Otherwise, its ther. --Striver 09:24, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations 

message: Due to a recent blanking (prob. vandalism though), I realised that the "Reasons for Misyar..." section is a bit POV, and very un-encyclopedic. Not denying that there are some points in the section that might prove true, is there a way to change the context of the paragraph to make it less POV and more factual information? If not, then I suggest a removal of that whole section. Stoa 19:54, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Reasons for Misyar" section 

message: The whole section on the Shi'a view is extremely biased. I don't know anything about this subject but it's clear that it should be reworded. This is the text as of now, with problem words in bold:
: Shia are glad that some Sunni have come to the conclusion that Nikah Mut'ah fills a necessary social function in giving laws for those who need it, Shia at the same time look with a humoristic disbelief on the people who refuse acknowledge that Umar made a innovation in forbidding Nikah Mut'ah, and rather innovate their own inferior version of Nikah Mut'ah, a version without Quranic support, not giving the woman the right to know how long the marriage is supposed to last.
... etc. The whole section also attributes these opinions to Shi'a people and scholars but this is not sourced in any way.  —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 00:33, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't doubt that, but it'd be best to present an actual quotation by a more-or-less notable Shi'a scholar, on the record, saying that or something to that effect. The whole paragraph reads rather aggressive as a general statement, even if it's true. It's better to attribute opinions to representative members of the community. This advice, if you allow me, goes for anything of the form "XXX view of YYY". Thanks for understanding. —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 02:32, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

text: "Ohhhh, but Misyar isn't PROSTITUTION. The man gives money and gifts to a woman who is a complete stranger to him (or pays off her parents), so that he can show up at her parents' house to have sex with her whenever he wants, without the "burden" of an actual husband-wife relationtship, or even friendship for that matter. Isn't that BETTER than Mut'a MARRIAGE?" (shiachat.com)
--Striver 12:41, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Misyar isn't prostitution because her parents must be witnesses, you are making confusion between Misyar and Orfy. Misyar is allowed because the woman's parent are witnesses while Orfy is forbidden because her parents are not witnesses. Mut'a is temporary while Misyar isn't. Misyar is just normal marriage but with the woman giving up some of her rights, which she can ask later and the man is obligated to give them to her later if she asks.--BelalSaid (talk) 00:10, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV: Shi'a view 

message: Why was this article moved without talking about it? I oppose the move, and demand that the move be undone untill consensus has been reached. Admin? --Striver 08:03, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Move

message: I hid the following personal comment in the article - complain may be relevant - Skysmith 20:30, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sunni View on Misyar Marriage 

message: I will be radically rearranging this article, correcting it's very poor english, and trying to make it less tedious to read. Please, if your english id not very good, don't edit this article. Before anyone reverts my edits, please discuss.  Debates about shia and sunni, should be in a seperate article, not here. This article should simply describe what Misyar is, and briefly how Shia view it. Aaliyah Stevens 16:41, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: "Many wives hope to win the love of their husbands so that they may live with them permanently."
This is true, misyar can progress into a full blown commitment based marriage, i.e. the contract is like a 'rolling contract' that can be reviewed and renegotiated by both parties at any time, or in the event of a pre-stipulated condition or Shuroot. Shuroot in a marriage contract are common, this is important to mention.Aaliyah Stevens 23:12, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

text: I don't entirely undertsand your exact point above, it's not very clear. Shuroot are anything the husband and wife agree about their marriage- the Ulema don't define them, the couple do. You seem to view misyar in a skewed way, as if only men engage in it for their own "evil" sexual desires, and the women involved are always victims of this desire - "it takes two to tango"!. Women have sexual desires too, and misyar contracts can be very beneficial for women who want the pleasuers of marriage, but want to remain independent. It can be seen as a means of women's liberation from household duties. This has nothing to do with the Ulema, as it is a standard sunni marriage contract, with extra stiplulations, i.e. the wife and husband lift all responsibilities from each other except when they wish to enjoy each other, this is how it is practised, and many misyari marriages do become fully committed later. The experience of rich khaleeji (gulf) men, exploiting poor girls is not the only form misyar takes. Women can gain from it too, and can demand any amount of Mahr and maintenance payments weekly or monthly they wish. On another note, it sounds like English is not your first language, could you confirm that, sorry if I sound offensive, I don't mean it Aaliyah Stevens 13:52, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for your constructive and positive criticism, I really appreciate it. I agree with you that this type of marriage when contracted by rich and powerful khaliji men usually favours men, however having studied Islamic theology, and law, and having travelled to almost every Arab country, from the Marrakesh to Karachi, the use of misyar is also common among a young couple in love who cannot for practical reasons live in a seperate home, and/or the wife does not wish to live with her husbands family, or so that they may spend time together without the hassle of convincing their parents of a full blown marriage (i.e. they conduct a relationship behind parents' backs). The Muslim world, and the practice of Islam goes well beyond the reach of rich Khaliji men, and in this context I suggest that misyar can actually be used and abused just as much by rich or powerful women, or be used for the benefit of career women who do not want to be tied down at the moment, which the Sunni Shariah has allowed. Anyway, I don't think we are debating the wording of this text, so there is no significant difference between us, thanks for your input, it might be worth now putting this article back into the french wikipedia?? Could you possibly transfer the Caliphate article into french too? Aaliyah Stevens 22:57, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Terrible article needs better english, and POV statements removed

message: all the people mentioned here are saudi, wahabi clerics  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.216.113.165 (talk) 07:46, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources

message: Some parts of this article - particularly "Legality of misyar marriage" - read similar to a text book, and not an encyclopaedia. I'm not versed in Islam at all, so I myself am quite reluctant to make any changes. Six Times Is Enough (talk) 10:22, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Issues on tone 

message: A lot of good sources have been added here now, but toward the end of the article there are several unsourced paragraphs. This appears to have been tagged since March. If there are no objections, then perhaps in a week or so we can delete any material for which sources have not been brought. I think two and a half months is more than enough time. MezzoMezzo (talk) 06:18, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sourcing 

message: The article on the Arabic Wikipedia says that "Misyar marriage" is a "newly invented" marriage contract that came to existence in the last few decades by the sheikhs of Wahabism and that it is only practiced by Wahabis (mainly in Saudi Arabia). It is wrong to say that "this Wahabi marriage contract" belongs to Sunni Islam.--5.107.41.128 (talk) 19:26, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Wahabbism is part of Sunni Islam. --92slim (talk) 01:01, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Misyar is practiced only by Wahabis, not by Sunnis.  

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message: According to the NYT, this is called zawaj al mutaa in Algeria, which is Sunni, or is this due to confusion with mutaa (which is a Sunni Shia practice)? 
http://www.nytimes.com/1995/05/04/world/algeria-militants-vow-to-kill-women-linked-to-government.html --Espoo (talk) 16:00, 30 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Possibly confusion. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 16:15, 30 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  zawaj al mutaa ? 

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message: This marriage is used to change conditions as given by Quran and Sunnah. Such as wife waives right of maintenance but it is koranic to give mahr and maintenance to women. Which gives the husband authority over his wife. If this is removed, which gives husband authority over women? Furthermore full Koran and Hadith as explained in sunnah do not give permission to change rights, obligations of spouses and conditions of marriage to change or contradict to Quran and Hadith.. Although these conditions are flexible such as Mahar is made through mutual consideration but do not allow to completely destroy these conditions. So Nikah misyar is unknown to Islam. Only greedy scholars are trying to justify it for their hidden motives. Nikah misyar is prohibited at all. If I am wrong correct me through Quran and Hadith as explained in Sunnah. Thank you. Please improve article by giving information from Quran and Sunnah (if anyone have) so that one may know what Islam really says about it.
Nikah misyar (talk) 03:05, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nikah misyar is prohibited