Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Romanization of Ukrainian

message: For the sake of comparison (feel free to add more words):
Cyrillic 	linguistics	BGN/PCGN    	BGN/PCGN simplified	National 1996	simplified National 1996	National 2010/UNGEGN	Library of Congress (ALA–LC)
-ий      	-yj        	-yy         	-y                 	-yi          	-yi                     	–yi                 	-yĭ
-ій      	-ij        	-iy         	-y                 	-ii          	-ii                     	-ii                 	-iĭ
Україна  	Ukrajina   	Ukrayina    	Ukrayina           	Ukraina      	Ukraina                 	Ukraina             	Ukraïna
Київ     	Kyjiv      	Kyyiv       	Kyiv               	Kyiv         	Kyiv                    	Kyiv                	Kyïv
Запоріжжя	Zaporižžja 	Zaporizhzhya	Zaporizhya         	Zaporizhzhia 	Zaporizhia              	Zaporizhzhia        	Zaporiz͡hz͡hi͡a
згода    	zhoda      	z∙hoda      	zhoda              	zghoda       	zghoda                  	zghoda              	zhoda
сім’я    	sim”ja     	sim”ya      	simya              	sim”ia       	simia                   	simia               	simʹi͡a
сміється 	smijet’sja 	smiyet’sya  	smiyetsya          	smiiet’sia   	smiietsia               	smiietsia           	smii͡etʹsi͡a
ювілей   	juvilej    	yuviley     	yuviley            	yuvilei      	yuvilei                 	yuvilei             	i͡uvileĭ
яєшня    	jaješnja   	yayeshnya   	yayeshnya          	yaieshnia    	yaieshnia               	yaieshnia           	i͡ai͡eshni͡a
щабельок 	ščabel’ok  	shchabel’ok 	shchabelok         	schabel’ok   	schabel’ok              	shchabelok          	shchabelʹok
сміття   	smittja    	smittya     	smitya             	smittia      	smittia                 	smittia             	smitti͡a
Ending "-iй" is not common; ending "-ий" is much more common (червона/червоний). The later is given as "-yi" is the National system, which is the best way to represent "-ий", as it looks to me. I may prefer "simya" over "simia", but, again, the idea of going according to personal tastes is very wrong. I’m strongly advocating for sticking with a professionally established system. KPbIC 06:27, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Details 

message: I propose that we add a guideline recommending the Library of Congress (ALA–LC) system be used for transliterating Ukrainian in references, including titles, authors, publishers, etc.
This system is used by practically all English-language libraries, academicians, and publishers in the world (the British Library started using it nearly 40 years ago). When a reader sees a reference in Wikipedia, the name may as well help them find it elsewhere. —Michael Z. 2013-06-21 16:13 z
Is anyone keeping this page updated?
As it stands, I found it extremely difficult to find the standardised transliteration style used for English Wikipedia. Compare this page to the Wikipedia Russian transliteration standard page. I found the Russian one without any difficulties & it's all laid out ready to use as a reference dependent on whether it's basic, linguistic or technical.
I'm still clicking around trying to work out whether to use this or hidden from plain sight somewhere on this page! Having encountered variations of ï as "yi", "ji", "i" alone in various articles and items, I don't see how an English reader will recognise the a word/name in one article as being the same word/name in another. I think we all comprehend that Ukrainian words/names basically go in one eyeball and out the other for Anglo-Celtic speakers already. Compounding polysyllabic words/names with variations on the transliteration defeats the purpose of informing readers. I know I'm confounded.
Is anyone willing to collaborate on sorting this page out in order to emulate the comprehensible Russian entry (WP:RUS)? Note that I left a similar missive on Romanization of Ukrainian talk page last month and still haven't had a response from anyone. Cheers! --Iryna Harpy (talk) 01:21, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Library of Congress romanization for references 

message: This:
*An apostrophe may be used when more precision is required
*A double apostrophe may be used when more precision is required
is official rules? In official version 2. М'який знак і апостроф латиницею не відтворюються. Микола Василечко (talk) 19:44, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Not official. Wikipedia suggestions, although we mainly don’t use them. I will clarify it. —Michael Z. 20:49, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Explicit soft sign and apostrophe 

message: This advice page has been stable for a long time and is widely used without contestation. Can we agree to promote its status? Are any changes needed for this? (Perhaps it is too detailed in its suggestions for style, &c., and a convention should be pared down to the most minimal romanization method.)  —Michael Z. 14:03, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I suppose this is both a naming convention (about determining spelling of titles that have no single most commonly used spelling), and also part of the WP:MOS (supplement to the style manual regarding spellings in the lead and text of articles).  —Michael Z. 14:08, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Promoting this page to a naming convention 

message: I propose designating Wikipedia:Romanization of Ukrainian as a WP:guideline and supplement to the WP:Manual of Style, with the shortcut link MOS:UKR.  —Michael Z. 03:05, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Support : However, even if there is overwhelming support here I might add that this should follow Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines#Proposals. It would seem this should be brought to WP:Village Pump/Policy (VPPOL).  --  Otr500 (talk) 13:17, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added a  to VPP. CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE (please mention me on reply) 19:28, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Nevermind, Mzajac already put one there. CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE (please mention me on reply) 19:33, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  RFC: Romanization of Ukrainian as a guideline in the Manual of Style 

message: The section on indicating stress says we can use an acute accent over a vowel in romanized text, e.g. Zaporízhzhia. 
This should probably be removed. This usage is common in native Ukrainian dictionaries and readers (e.g., as Запорі́жжя), but as far as I know is not a convention for use in romanized text. Our universal way to indicate stress for any language in Wikipedia is in phonemic or phonetic transcriptions per MOS:IPA and WP:IPA.
Any objections?  —Michael Z. 18:39, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: See also Wikipedia:Stress marks in Russian words.  —Michael Z. 18:41, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:   —Michael Z. 14:02, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Indicating stress 

message: The redirect Wikipedia:UKR has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached.  JuniperChill (talk) 12:39, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  "[[:Wikipedia:UKR]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]]