Talk:Khoja

message: "Khawaja's are descendants of Esther (Hadassah) who was a Jewish queen of the Persian king Ahasuerus and she  had Jewish lineage to House of Levi LAW BEARERS and Benjamin was of Jewsh nobility. The Title was to honour children of Estther meaning LORD/MASTER. House of Khawaja is the oldest nobilityn that has been around  for thousands of years. Khawaja have ruled behind the scenes through Asia, China, South East Asia, Asia Minor, Balkan, Middle East. They have part some of the major empire of asia and middle east e.g. Persia, Ottoman, Moghuls, Mongols etc.
They are of Semite descendants of Shem and therefore have a clear Jewish Heritage.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davesmithclarke (talk • contribs) 21:10, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Not quite sure how to go about that as I'm pretty new to the game. Thanks for giving the article the once over. I've always known Nasruddin as a mulla rather than a khoja - must be a sociological revelation in there somwhere! Juha conjures up wonderful memories of arabic classes all those years ago and periodically asking the teacher the arabic for dentures. Leo Africanus 00:49, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: There is no evidence that Khoja practiced Sunni islam, prior to the arrival of the Agha Khans, all academic research indicates that they were Isma'ili, unless there is cited academic research. (Water Stirs (talk) 10:07, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Misleading Khoja's being Sunni

message: Once again, I apologize for putting a rude general notice on without listing my reasons.  Most of them are simply concerned with word choice -- words that have positive connotations used where ones with neutral ones would do -- and this is probably unconscious on the part of the author.  Here they are specifically:
The beginning
:"enlightened" implies that Pir Sadruddin is correct; "began to preach" or something along those lines would be better
:"celebrated" implies that the actions are positive; "famous" or "well-known" would be better
Jamaat Khanah
:"exclusive and secretive" -- "exclusive" implies a sense of superiority.  It might be better to recast this sentence, saying something like "Only members of the Muslim shia Nizari Ismaili community are allowed to enter the Jamaat Khanah..." (This is why I couldn't edit this page myself; because I don't know what the Jamaat Khanah is, I'm not exactly sure how to use it in a sentence.)
Retention of Identity
:"persistant perseverence" is a choice of words praising the Khojas.  Could a neutral way of saying this be found?
Beyond Africa
:"young Khojas had braved the monsoons" gives a VERY positive feeling toward the Khojas.  Perhaps statistics or simple facts would be more appropriate for this section.
The entire section of "retention of identity" is unnecessary. There are no citations, and every statement made therein appears to be a matter of opinion. For example:
"The thrust of these influences was great, engendering a fear in the minds of the Khoja of losing their identity. Hence the persistent perseverance by the Khojas to remain within a well-knit framework of the Jamaat, allowing no intrusion.[citation needed]
Amongst Shia Khoja groups, it is believed there exists a heavy "Khoja only" attitude.[citation needed] This idea is further demonstrated by the history of "Khoja Only Membership" among Islamic centres.[citation needed] While many centres no longer say they're Khoja only, the idea is not completely off the table.[citation needed]"
On these grounds I have removed this section entirely.
Overall, Khojas tend to be progressive community.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.164.150.223 (talk) 22:09, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clarifying 

message: How can 3 sects of Islam (ithnashariy, ismaili, hanafi) be subdivisions of an ethnic group?  I don't think that the subdivisions box is relevant unless we can find some sub-ethnic groups. --aliasad 05:56, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Subdivisions

message: The opening paragraph implies that خواجة khawaja is some sort of honorary title. In Arabic at least, it just means foreigner. It's not a title, if it ever was.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jackbrown (talk • contribs) 18:59, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  arabic meaning of Khawaja 

message: I had added a lot of content regarding the dashavatar and Imam Ali as Kalki, the tenth avatar longtime ago. It seems to have disappeared. Doesn't  the khoja community care about their history and past beliefs ? Shakher59 21:20, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hindu history 

message: I've removed the following VDM Publishing reference: 
 --Playmobilonhishorse  (talk) 04:07, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Alphascript Publishing]] 

message: 2 August 2010 Delations by user Alamukht
===Punjabi Khojas===
*
*
*
1.Sahgal        	4.Kanpur hyd  	7.Gorawala
2.Wohra or Bhora	5.Duggal      	8.Magun
3.Sethi         	6.Rawar or Ror	9.Mahendru
Intothefire (talk) 17:00, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: List of cited content removed from this article

message: *
*
*
1.Sahgal        	4.Kanpur hyd  	7.Gorawala
2.Wohra or Bhora	5.Duggal      	8.Magun
3.Sethi         	6.Rawar or Ror	9.Mahendru
Intothefire (talk) 17:00, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Punjabi Khojas

message: This article should contain a description of the 1866 "khoja case" and a further discussion of the ismaili/hanafi/ithna-asheri split
here is a starting point (although evidently biased)
http://www.mostmerciful.com/book-3.htm  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.73.234.38 (talk) 04:17, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Khoja Case" 

message: * Khwaja Ahmad Yasavi (a Sufi Shaykh who was held in high esteem among Central Asian Turkic peoples)
* Khoja Nasreddin
Do these two notables belong to the Khoja communities of South Asia described in the article ?  Thanks.Jonathansammy (talk) 21:59, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notables 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Two issues (misunderstandings lost in translation)
=== The Religious root ===
Etymology organized, from Arabic Qom root (Hoja't Allah - حجة الله) was actually started in Qom by early Shia imams, the Ismaili states of the 11th-12th century still used Hojat Allah it appeared regularly in Persia, Egypt, Yemen, Syria.  
====Nizari Persianization of the term====
Hassan-i Sabbah made Persian the language of the Nizari world and the transition to the use of Khoja started here.  The fall of Ismailis states under the Ayyubids in Egypt, Yemen and Syria forced the most pious Ismaili population to migrate into Persia escaping Sunni persecution, a century later the Asiatic invasions of Persia forced another migration into Sindh/Gujarat, by this timeframe the term Khoja was used in its Persian context.
=== Relation with Khawaja ===
The derivatives, Khawaja/خواجه and Khoja/خوجه are etymologically related but not directly used in the same meaning.  Khawaja/خواجه originally started as a Turkic derivative of Khoja in Turkic ruled Egypt, but evolved into the secular modern Egyptian-Arabic word that means Non-Arabic speaker.  With Egyptian Arabic secular influence in the Arab World, the 21st century strictly secular term is commonly used to describe any foreigner (especially Europeans) in all Arabic speaking countries.  Hojatalla (talk) 09:07, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etymology 

message: The derivatives, Khawaja/خواجه and Khoja/خوجه are etymologically related but not directly used in the same meaning.  Khawaja/خواجه originally started as a Turkic derivative of Khoja in Turkic ruled Egypt, but evolved into the secular modern Egyptian-Arabic word that means Non-Arabic speaker.  With Egyptian Arabic secular influence in the Arab World, the 21st century strictly secular term is commonly used to describe any foreigner (especially Europeans) in all Arabic speaking countries.  Hojatalla (talk) 09:07, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Relation with Khawaja 

message: That the Khojas are predominantly Ismaili is obvious and is reflected by the maincat :Category:Khoja Ismailism, that other sects exist within the community has now also been  reflected with this.
These cats can co-exist and should do so, repeated removals (such as here and here) evince either WP:IDONTLIKEIT or WP:CENSORED.
The same is the case in another article where both cats, reflecting the diverse origins, can co-exist as well. Gotitbro (talk) 21:22, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ismailism 

message: This source talks about the supposed origins of different sects within the Khoja community. Firstly Infobase is a general-reference source and should not be considered as such for WP:HISTRS matters and especially not for WP:CASTE origin stuff.
And as the text itself indicates, the 'Punjabi Khojas' (if a separate community as such was ever there) have largely been assimilated into the larger fold of that ethnicity and do not exist as a separate community now (cannot find a single individual who identifies or has been identified as such or anything major on 'Punjabi Khojas' as well). To use this source to overhall the description, lead and language (Infobase itself lists only Gujarati and Urdu and not Punjabi) is not correct and is misleading. 
I was, and am, hard pressed to find any source that does not majorly describe this community other than one being from Gujarat; their origins not withstanding (also almost all Khojas within Pakistan who identify as such are from Gujarat as well). If better sources can be found they maybe taken to the history, origin etc. sections but that itself does not warrant a changing of the lead et. al. with regards to the basic makeup of the community. Gotitbro (talk) 07:22, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origins 

message: — Assignment last updated by Huskyhero (talk) 01:57, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: Online Communities