Talk:Johnnie Ray

message: I've done some rewrites to the article. As the edit summary box is rather short, I wanted to explain my edits lest they be reverted. I replaced some sources because they appear to be unreliable. One was a book/website by Lulu.com. That's a vanity press. I also removed the lyric websites and replaced them with book citations. I also got rid of all the stuff about when and how Ray and Dorothy Kilgallen met. This issues was a problem before (it's in the talk page archive) and it seems the now blocked editor and prolific sockmaster returned to put it back in. Nothing on tv.com or IMdb support that Ray and Kilgallen were already having an affair before he appeared on What's My Line. All those links prove is that the episodes exist. If he claimed he met her there, that's that. Maybe he lied, maybe he forgot, it doesn't really matter. This isn't the place to feature one person's amateur investigative journalism and original research. Documenting what he said and adding what others claim that counter that is sufficient as long as it is well sourced. 24.72.179.145 (talk) 09:36, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Ultimatums? That's not how we do things in Wikipedia.  Content gets added that has reliable sources attached to it.  Content gets removed that isn't reliably sourced, violates the WP:NPOV policy, or isn't encyclopedic in nature.  -- WV ● ✉ ✓  04:09, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent edits 

message: Thank you, Winkelvi, for these edits that are fine by me.
Let's wait a while longer for the anonymous editor who changed the Personal life section to say something here.  If the editor doesn't, then I'm going to try a compromise for changing that section.  I already explained the bad chronology that the editor put in it.  Ray dies, then he denies he was gay, etcetera.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.183.42.50 (talk) 22:13, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  section called Later career influences looks good after three October 31 edits 

message: Please see the request for arbitration that I added a few minutes ago to this page:  Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring  When you are there scrolling down, it is the latest entry as of now.  The other person who is disputing edits never says anything on this Talk page despite my repeated requests in the edit summaries that the person should do so.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.183.42.50 (talk) 22:34, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Arbitration 

message: I'm not interested in the past disputes and the above walls of text are tl;dr, but there is no mention of Ray having a drinking problem, then suddenly this section talks about him being able to maintain sobriety, which comes across as a non sequitur. Valfontis (talk) 15:29, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Unless we find something recent (which I think will be nearly impossible because no one really knows who Johnnie Ray is any more), I think it will be very difficult to find anything that will mention his alcoholism.  That was something they just didn't talk about except in whispers in the 70s and prior.  But, I do agree, we need to make mention of it before the sobriety thing which does come out of the blue. -- WV ● ✉ ✓  15:34, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Later years and death section 

message: Another editor felt my first edit misled readers about our subject's 1972 interview with Rolling Stone magazine.  So I reworded it and made a 2nd edit.  Of course, the fact that Rolling Stone revealed nothing about his private life had no connection to the brevity of the article.  I have changed the wording.  How is it now?Helping Johnnie's memory (talk) 08:11, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: What are you talking about? The material that you added  was removed. Your revised version of it  had also been removed  before you posted the above. The latest material you added , just before posting the above, does not include any of the contest material. So, if you are asking what I think of the current coverage of the 1972 Rolling Stone interview, I think it's fine, because it wasn't in the article when you asked. If you are asking what I think of your previous versions, then obviously, since I removed them, I don't like them. The name dropping of Annie Leibovitz and her nude photos of David Cassidy does not belong in this article, and trying to draw an inference about his sexuality from the fact that a one-page interview did not mention his purported homosexuality and said nothing about his private life is not appropriate. Meters (talk) 02:07, 5 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rolling Stone interview in 1972 

message: I added text about our subject's "several appearances" on this influential American network television show.  Unfortunately, google does not lead us to documentation of exactly how many broadcasts of it included him.  Neither does the book by Jonny Whiteside that is an often-used source here.  I added new sources that point to Sullivan episodes on January 6, 1952 and sometime in 1953.  During those years, the show's official title was Toast of the Town, but many viewers referred to it as The Ed Sullivan Show, which became the new official title in 1955.  That title change was a tricky detail to handle while adding text here.  I feel our article is remiss without any reference to the subject's television appearances throughout the 1950s.  Eventually, network television dropped him.  Except for a short period in the early 1970s, an American had to physically show up at a Johnnie Ray concert in order to watch him perform.Helping Johnnie's memory (talk) 08:11, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ed Sullivan Show also known as Toast of the Town 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Johnnie Ray. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080309132853/http://www.glbtq.com/arts/ray_j.html to http://www.glbtq.com/arts/ray_j.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080309132853/http://www.glbtq.com/arts/ray_j.html to http://www.glbtq.com/arts/ray_j.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This is given as both Dallas, Oregon and The Dalles, Oregon. In both cases, their individual wiki page says 'Not to be confused with...' the other. Which was it? Valetude (talk) 22:11, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Birthplace? 

message: The second reference, "The tracks of his tears," leads to an outdated domain holder. I have found a link that leads to a proper, supporting source (do I call it that?), but I'm unsure on how to replace the defunct link/citations. In short, could someone more experienced please swap out reference #2 for the following link? Thank you in advance. Ray (1927-1990) XKBLUE (talk) 14:19, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for finding. I've changed it. For future reference, it's fairly straightforward. In edit mode, just click in the article where your edit needs to go, then put your cursor on 'Templates' at the top of the edit box, and when the menu opens click 'cite web' and enter the details. Cheers. --Blurryman (talk) 00:14, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Father of rock and roll" outdated reference 

message: From reading the article, I'm left with the impression that Johnnie Ray was bisexual. Also, he never publicly declared his sexuality. So why is he categorized as definitively gay? For full disclosure, I'm gay and therefore have no bias against him being labeled as such. But his alleged relationship with Kilgallen makes that categorization questionable. Stefen Towers among the rest! Talk • Work 17:14, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I just came across this Oregon Public Broadcasting documentary, where it's stated that Johnnie Ray was bisexual. Stefen Towers among the rest! Talk • Work 18:19, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that this seems clear, and since he is already included in "American LGBT singers" and "American LGBT songwriters", I have removed the "Gay" categories. --Blurryman (talk) 18:45, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you. That seems like the safest choice unless and until there can be a reckoning on whether using "Bisexual" categories would be prudent. Stefen Towers among the rest! Talk • Work 00:37, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gay categorization