Talk:Jewish Bolshevism/Archive 1

message: someone needs to look at this article write now its heavily antisemtic and is filled with quotes suggesting that there is merit to the ideal that the Soviets were controlled by Jews. --Mao1949 18:29, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. Some parts are totally ridiculous, e.g. "Nobel Prize winner Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn has recently (2002) reviewed in great depth, and in a truly unbiased and heartfelt way..." - it would be difficult to find more POV appeal to authority, especially in light of heavy criticism of Solzhenitsyn's writings regarding Jews. ←Humus sapiens ну? 10:16, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: POV

message: How is the cover image of the Protocols alleging that the Bolshevik govt is "Jewish" is irrelevant here: . ←Humus sapiens ну? 04:43, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have strong reservations as to the authenticity of the book cover. To me it looks like a photo placed atop the book, especially under magnification. On the second thought it may well be an artifact of cheap publisher. I am withdrawing the objection. `'mikka 06:58, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of image 

message: The Protocols as a reference? Why not add Mein Kampf as a reference as well? But seriously this source should be deleted as it's not needed to demonstrate a valid point and one can assume is only included for anti-semitic purposes. Actually I will delete it right away, let this be the note of explanation.--Caranorn 00:04, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This has been addressed at Talk:The Protocols of the Elders of Zion#Protocols were used as a supposed reference in the article. No need to crosspost. ←Humus sapiens ну? 05:27, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually this was the first post, not a cross post. The argument why a reference, not referring to any part of the sentence is supposed to be included has not been explained yet. While inclusion in the article on the Protocols itself might be reasonable it is not here, therefore I will delete it once more until a good motivation has been provided to keep it. The only necessary reference for that sentence is from the quoted book (Pipes'), not the book talked about.--Caranorn 12:47, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Humus sapiens please read the section Why sources should be cited of Wikipedia:Citing sources. Point 5 ("To improve the overall credibility and authoritative character of Wikipedia.") of that section is particularly interesting in this context. There clearly is no need to include a reference to the Protocols in the context of your sentence.--Caranorn 13:04, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry I thought you'd reinserted the reference here as well. The way the article is now I see no need for additional debate, thanks.--Caranorn 13:11, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alfred Rosenberg: Die Protokolle der Weisen von Zion und die judische Weltpolitik (Munich: Deutsche Volksverlag, 1923). 

message: 1) Jews were not allowed in the Russian Empire before the Partitions of Poland and were "acquired" with the territory. 
2) There is no direct relation between Belorussia (white Russia) and the White movement. ←Humus sapiens ну? 05:27, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Partitions of Poland, White movement 

message: There is no reference to the actual use of Jewish Bolshevism
:Accordingly, it should be deleted, in spite of the references in the matter below the introction of the title and explanation of its meaning or use. --Ludvikus 09:34, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: --Ludvikus 09:34, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Unfortunately, the term is not a neologism. It became popular since 1917 and after a short wave of popularity in the West regularly appeared in the Nazi propaganda. Sidenote: the best way to fight hate is to expose it. Less we forget. ←Humus sapiens ну? 10:00, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Appears to be a neologism and lacks any sources so is unverifiable

message: Jew Watch is an antisemitic sight on the WEB which currently uses and subscribes to the theme that Bolshevism IS Jewish: 
:Yours truly, Ludvikus 15:58, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Jew Watch]]

message: --Ludvikus 16:49, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Jews and Bolshevism]] 

message: --Ludvikus 17:06, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[William Striker]] 

message: The source of this Jewish connection theory is Russian and Nazi propaganda. It is contained in the above so-called "Protocol" published in 1934 in the 300-page tome of the Protocols of Zion issued by the SO-CALLED PATRIOTIC PUBLISHING CO.. It occurs on pages 297-298 of that antisemitic plagiarism. And the reference there is to an alleged Russian newspaper, Prizyu, issue of 5 February 1920. There it has a reference to an alleged "interesting document," in Hebrew, dated December 19919, and "found in the pocket of the dead Jew Zunder, the Bolshevic Commander of the 11th Sharp-shooter Battalion, throwing light on the secret organizations of Jewry in Russia." Apparently the "dead Jew" missed his mark. The quote that's most relevant (besides being "interesting") is the following antisemitic diatribe:
   Bronstein (Trotsky), Apfelbaum (Zinovieff), Rosenfeld (Kameneff), Steinberg
   —— all of them are like unto thousands of other true sons of Israel.
That's the scholarship behind the "theme" of Jewish Bolshevism Ludvikus 18:01, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Protocol of 1919]] 

message: I am surprised that the editors are unaware of the fundamental Antisemitic and Racist nature of the term, "many Jews were Bolsheviks"! How many is many? Is "2 Jews too many"?
:The subtext reads "too many Jews were Bolsheviks. African Americans have established these kind of racist remarks. It is just like saying "Most Negroes are inferior". Or most Negros are less intelligent.
:There is no place for Antisemitism, or Racism, on Wikipedia under the guise of reporting the facts.
:I ask that all editors be on guard against this kind of hateful rubbish. --Ludvikus 02:59, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: These modern Antisemites wish to explain so-called "Negro crime in America." Will they also explain the "Russian mafia"? Here's something these contemporay Antisemites will not explain: "Why are there so many Ruskies in today's Russian Mafia?" There are no more "Jews" they can blame? Or is the there such a thing as the Judeo-Russian Mafia today as well? Please come forward and explain yourselves - I would like to learn about this so-called "neutral usage". --Ludvikus 14:56, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not enough Russians were Bolsheviks - Many Jews took their place  - like "most negroes are less intelligent" 

message: I suspect this kind of racism comes to the English Wikipedia from Russia where the Jews are to be blamed for Bolshevism.
*One can say, "there were Jews who were Bolsheviks" - if there were.
*The were 3,520,386 - if that were the case.
*But how can one judge "many"?
*Why not: "under the circumstance, few Jews were Bolsheviks?
Yours truly, --Ludvikus 03:08, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: These modern Antisemites wish to explain so-called "Negro crime in America." Will they also explain the "Russian mafia"? Here's something these contemporay Antisemites will not explain: "Why are there so many Ruskies in today's Russian Mafia?" There are no more "Jews" they can blame? Or is the there such a thing as the Judeo-Russian Mafia today as well? Please come forward and explain yourselves - I would like to learn about this so-called "neutral usage". --Ludvikus 14:56, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Creapy, & Creaping Antisemitism

message: "Jewish Bolshevism" topic is important elsewhere beyond Russia or the USSR. For example Stalin himself described Mátyás Rákosi, the local communist dictator between 1949-1955 as the "first jewish king of Hungary". In fact the large amount of top position jews in the opressive hungarian communist party regime contributed to pogromic events during the 1956 hungarian revolution. In fact even today right-wing anti-semitism in Hungary is largely motivated by anti-communist anti-jewry, rather than genetical based anti-jewry (i.e. nazi ideology). The memory of communist opression is still alive, pre-WWII era has faded. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 193.226.227.153 (talk) 14:17, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've forgotten where I've read it (in a reliable source), but it's known that Mátyás Rákosi himself often expressed anti-Semitic attitudes (often in regards to money/business/economics), even though he was himself ethnically Jewish!  Before WWII Hungary had a Jewish population of around 5% (one of the highest in Europe), and many estimate that this 5% controlled about 70-90% of all the business and industry in Hungary (similar situation in Romania, Belarus, Poland, Ukraine, and so forth). A few hundred thousand Jews were apparently killed by the Nazis and Nazi collaborators in Hungary (sent to Auschwitz), but even then because so many Jews still remained In Hungary after WWII they soon rose to occupy the highest positions in the newly installed Communist govt.  --152.15.102.43 21:31, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article geographical scope is too narrow. 

message: Is there an article on that subject - equivalent to Polish communism, Communism in Colombia, or :Category:Communism in the United Kingdom? I.e. not dealing with conspiracy theories, but with nonpartisan analysis of views on communism among Jewish communities?-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  04:16, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. This page should be reserved for the conspiracy theory stuff, and Jewish Communism should be the article for actual history. (With capital C, as we are talking (presumably?) about Communist parties and states, rather than the much, much broader small-c communism that includes anarchist communism, primitive communism, council communism, etc. BobFromBrockley 11:05, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Jewish communism]]

message: Where is the source for the following statement:
"In the mid-1930's, under the leadership of Genrikh Yagoda (who was Jewish), the Jewish presence in the secret police briefly became dominant: of the people surrounding Yagoda, 39% were Jewish and only 30% Russian. The immediate predecessors to Yagoda in that same position were also Jewish : Iosif Unschlicht and Meier Trilisser."
Yagoda's predecessor was Vyacheslav Menzhinsky (he wasn't Jewish).  The "39%" claim is highly suspect
:In response to this anon editor, I have added fact and dubious tags by this info. BobFromBrockley 12:44, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[factually wrong article]]