Talk:One half

message: This is the only page on a fraction that I intend to create. But if others create pages on other fractions, such as the ones that get code points in the Unicode Number Forms block, and are in common use, I would be glad to work on those. Fractions that approximate π are probably best only mentioned in the article on π. PrimeFan 17:12, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other fraction pages 

message: I will eventually figure out how to write 1/2 in single precision floating point. If someone knows how to do it, please add it to this page, but please don't tell me directly, I want to figure it out on my own. PrimeFan 17:12, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: User:Toby Bartels added the floating point a few months ago. More recently, a well-intentioned rookie user added some unlikely precision errors. I've seen glitches in calculators and computers, but no calculator or computer has ever told me that 1/2 = 0.4999999... Since two is divisible by the base numbers of the common bases we humans regularly use (binary, octal, decimal and hexadecimal) I see no need to list unlikely precision errors. If we do a page on 1/3 or 1/7, that's a different story. Anton Mravcek 17:59, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think those were intended to be values with error.  They are proper alternate representations of 1/2 in a place value system: the binary one, for instance, holds because the sum of the geometric series \sum_{n=2}^\infty 2^{-n} = 1/2. 4pq1injbok 01:56, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: 4pq1injbok might be new here, but he knows what he's talking about. I tried putting in the left side of that equation into Mathematica 4.2 and sure enough it replied 1/2. Then to N[%], it replied 0.5. So if there are no further objections from you, Anton, I will restore the "unlikely precision errors" to the Docuan table. PrimeFan 21:25, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I still don't see where the 0.49999999... comes from. Anton Mravcek 22:39, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I see there's been some discussion of this at Talk:Cantor's diagonal argument.  Perhaps we should create the page alluded to there on numbers with two different decimal expansions.  4pq1injbok 23:58, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Fascinating. I will print out that page and do some serious thinking on it. Anton Mravcek 20:49, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Floating Point Quandary 

message: I know the Latin numerical prefixes for whole numbers 1-1000, but does anyone know about fractions?? The most well known are 1/2 (semi-) and 3/2 (sesqui-) Any others anyone knows?? 66.245.123.29 18:55, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Latin prefixes for fractions 

message: One half → ½ – ½ is in ISO 8859-1, and more people would want to link ½ than ½ — KelisFan2K5 12:51, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation and sign your vote with ~~~~    
===Support===
*Support - and provided we keep the redirects, it definitely won't be a problem. Warofdreams 16:22, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move to ½... 

message: *Support - and provided we keep the redirects, it definitely won't be a problem. Warofdreams 16:22, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Support

message: *Oppose - There is already a redirect from ½ so this is not a problem -- Philip Baird Shearer 16:37, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Oppose

message: Typographically, what is  best 2½, 2 ½ or 2 ½? TIA.--Hhielscher 09:42, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's usually close-up, or at most a hair-space.  It's part of the number itself, just like "2.5", which would have no space. Correctrix (talk) 02:23, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

text: Half is a common noun that can be limited by numbers as in 'one half', 'two halves' etc.Hyphenating 'one-half' is very wrong. If 'one-half' were correct then so must be 'a-half' and 'some-halves'.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by OrewaTel (talk • contribs) 00:20, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  2 ½ with or without space 

message: I have removed a fair amount of extraneous information:
* the repeating expansions in the infobox
* the floating-point representation in the infobox
* the paragraph beginning "One half has two different decimal expansions...".
While it's true that 0.4999... is equal to 0.5 (per the same arguments as in our 0.999... article), I don't believe anyone ever thinks of 0.5 in this way.  Indeed I believe that belaboring this point (and in not one but four different bases!) is much more likely to confuse readers than enlighten them.
That is, while the statement "one half has two different decimal expansions" might be true in some rarefied stratum of numerical analysis, in everyday usage (and indeed in everyday mathematical usage) I believe it is absurd and simply false.
In a similar vein, I don't believe it's useful to list a floating-point representation here.  If you're trying to understand a particular floating-point format (of which there are many), knowing how 0.5 is represented in it is certainly interesting and relevant, but to pick just one of those formats and present it here as if it's one of the representative forms of one half is, again, uninteresting at best and misleading at worst.
: Well, User:Wcherowi didn't agree with any of those changes, and reverted them all, but didn't explain why.  I'm curious to know what other editors think.  Take your mathematician and/or editor hat off and think like a reader who's coming here to learn something.  Does it really tell you anything you need to know to see that the decimal expansion is "0.5 or 0.499999999999..."?  Or that the "Single-precision floating point" representation is 3F000000? —Steve Summit (talk) 04:21, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: To set the record straight, I do agree with your assessment of the floating point representation and most likely would have come back to the page to remove it. I could also agree that having so many examples is a bit of overkill and could use some trimming. What I strongly objected to was the removal of any indication that there are alternate representations. If a reader is coming to this page to learn something, then that is a good thing to learn. I have faced far too many students unwilling to accept the equality of 1 and 0.99999... even after several explanations with various degrees of rigor. Some who are finally convinced, walk away with the impression that it is a one off phenomena, applicable only to the number 1. More exposure to the concept, in several settings is what is called for. You may wish to argue that this information is not encyclopedic – I would disagree – however, a quick glance at any of our many pages on specific "boy bands" will soon disabuse you of the notion that all content on WP is encyclopedic in nature. As to the multiple representations in different bases, I also think that this is worth noting, at least for the more sophisticated reader who may turn up on this page. As a final thought, I think that it is naive to believe that readers would come to a page such as this to learn about the concept, rather it is curiosity about what we would say about it that would bring them here, and we should not disappoint by having nothing on the page that they don't already know. Bill Cherowitzo  (talk) 05:36, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair enough; thanks. —Steve Summit (talk) 12:07, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: For me there's a disconnect -- which I am trying to figure out how to articulate -- between (a) saying "0.999... is equal to 1" (which is very true, not necessarily obvious, and important to explain to people who may misunderstand or deny it), and (b) stating that one, or one half, or two and a half, or three (or indeed any number which does not have a single, recurring expansion) "has two expansions".  It's sort of an undue weight thing.  As a thought experiment, if a student (at almost any level, in almost any context) were asked for the decimal expansion of one half, and answered "0.4999...", I don't think they'd be marked correct, so it bothers me to suggest that the two expansions are equally "right".  But I do take your point that repeated exposure to the concept can be pedagogically useful, so I'm forced to admit that presenting it as an example here (even in, dangit, multiple bases) isn't necessarily a bad thing. —Steve Summit (talk) 12:30, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

text: In your thought experiment, the fact that the 0.4999... response would, more frequently than not, be considered incorrect is a sad commentary, and not one on the student. In a more perfect world, in which the understanding of things mathematical was not just skin deep, this topic would require no more than a passing aside. But we don't live in such a world and I don't feel too bad about erring on the side of pushing a concept a bit harder than it deserves – provided it isn't done too often and is done with a bit of wit and grace. Bill Cherowitzo  (talk) 23:24, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

text:  It is true that 0·4999… is an alternate representation of 0·5 but so is the fraction ²/₄. They are not the simplest forms and in an exam would quite rightly be marked wrong. Should these alternatives be here? I don't think so. Discussion of the form x·xxx999… belongs on the Decimal page. There is a discussion there but it is unsatisfactory because it is written in such a way as to obscure the point. However I don't think that extraneous stuff should be added to this page in order to overcome the deficiencies of another.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by OrewaTel (talk • contribs) 01:33, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup 

message: subsection fractions#writing fractions is broken - misslink--Albedo @  18:55, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed. Bill Cherowitzo  (talk) 19:29, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Broken link

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: not moved. Withdrawn, shifting discussion to WT:MOSNUM#Hyphenation in spelled-out fractions. (closed by non-admin page mover) Remsense诉 05:52, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: One half →  – Per MOS:FRAC: 
Like, it looks a bit weird to me, but I'm sure it will look normal as an article title if I keep staring at it. Remsense诉 13:18, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

text: Note: WikiProject Mathematics and WikiProject Numbers have been notified of this discussion. Remsense诉 13:18, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

text: I'm kind of neutral. While the guideline is clear, the reason for hyphenation for spelled-out fractions in text is for grammatical reasons that don't really apply to standalone titles. Tito Omburo (talk) 14:22, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: This was my thought also, but the notion of intentional distinction between the form used in the title and the form used throughout the rest of the article makes my brain hurt far more. Remsense诉 14:24, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

text: MOS:FRAC is straight up wrong here, and should be changed. Whether to add a hyphen depends on the grammatical context. –jacobolus (t) 14:49, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Also a thought I had, in line with other phrases that appear either as nouns or adjectives. Remsense诉 14:54, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with this. For instance, in the lead sentence of this very article, I think it is better with no hyphen. —David Eppstein (talk) 18:10, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

text:  Good observations all around.  I think fractions should be hyphenated when they are used as modifiers of something else, like "one-half cup", or other compound numbers, "thirty-seven bushels".  But it makes less sense when writing about the number qua itself (although I think many style guides may mindlessly prescribe a hyphen regardless of context).  Tito Omburo (talk) 21:38, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

text: While that is also my preference, I wouldn't go so far as to suggest that uniformly using a hyphen is "wrong". The Chicago Manual of Style (which heavily influenced our MOS) also prescribes the hyphenated form, even when the term is used as a noun. That being said, if someone would be open to starting a discussion at WT:MOSNUM, I would be happy to oppose this RM pending the outcome of that discussion. Graham (talk) 05:32, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Likewise. I think any outcome is fine as long as it's clear. Remsense诉 05:34, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text:  Would you be open to withdrawing this RM and opening a broader discussion for us? Graham (talk) 05:50, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure thing. Remsense诉 05:51, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks! I think WT:MOSNUM would be the most suitable venue. Graham (talk) 05:52, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 17 May 2024