Talk:Pennsylvania/Archive 1

message: Is the candy company the only notable small company in PA?  Why this one over all others?  Should pennsylvania Dutch Candies be deleted? Key45 22:43, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: [[pennsylvania Dutch Candies]]

message: There are hundreds of Wikipedia articles about towns in Pennsylvania that haven't been updated since 2003 began. Can you put a Media Wiki box in these towns?? 66.32.74.97 01:28, 29 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Towns in Pennsylvania 

message: That skyline picture of Philly needs moved. It's creating WAY too much white space. sam 14:14, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Skyline picture 

message: The license plate shown on the page is outdated. Does anybody have a sample image of one of the newer, uglier ones to put in its place?
Lancer Sykera 05:38, August 13, 2005 (UTC)
:I believe you're referring to the new plates that have the www.visitpa.com address at the bottom. These are not the official plates of Pennsylvania, according to the Department of Transportation's License Plate page, found at http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/license_plates/index.shtml.Sam 19:04, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  License Plate 

message: I think there is a bit to much on the Pennsylvania Dutch in the intro.  While they do deserve a mention I think a sentence or two is appropriate in the intro and that the rest should be brought down into the article under demographics or even given their own section.  The intro should not be the place that we discern the many sects of Amish people.  Interested to hear what others think--Looper5920 05:28, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree. The note on the "Dutch" misnomer should be cut, or at least moved to the body of the article. A simple distinction between PA German and Dutch will do for now. --Pastricide! <I>Non-absorbing</I> 01:12, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Concur. I'm from Lancaster County, but there are many articles for the Penna Dutch and the various components of this group. The Note on Dutch/Deutsch merits a single sentance, at best. Redneb 14:18, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Introduction 

message: That's sorta like asserting that Henry Ford invented the color black because the model T was available in any color you wanted, as long as that was it. 
The Big Mac is simply a double-decker hamburger, and Bob Wian introduced that in 1937. It was popular enough that he renamed his Glendale CA eatery from Bob's Pantry to Bob's Big Boy, and built a nationwide chain of franchised restaurants around that sandwich. 
In 1937, Richard and Maurice McDonald's Arcadia, California drive-in was new, and they didn't even sell hamburgers at that point - they sold hot dogs and orange juice.
Maybe the Big Mac deserves mention *somewhere* on the page, but I don't think "inventions" is the proper heading. Consensus? ClairSamoht 02:05, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think Delligatti invented the special sauce that gives the Big Mac its distinct taste. Since his name is attached to the sandwich I'm guessing he has some sort of patent for it. --Pastricide! <I>Non-absorbing</I> 01:04, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The McDonald's corporate website states that the Big Mac was introduced systemwide in 1968 and was the brainchild of Jim Delligatti, one of company's earliest franchisees.  They also mention that by the late 1960s Delligatti operated a dozen stores in Pittsburgh.  An article in a local Pittsburgh paper described a schoolkid's interview of Delligatti.  Delligatti said they he did not/does not get any type of royalty for the sandwich.  McDonald's gave him a plaque to memorialize his creation.  The article mentions the first Big Mac was sold in Delligatti's Uniontown store in 1967 and Delligatti told the interviewer that when he first made the Big Mac, McDonald's told him he could only use ingredients already on hand (including the ingredients for the special sauce). So, it seems to me that even McDonald's doesn't view the Big Mac as just another double-decker hamburger. Bosby1 22:40, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

text: In 1967, McDonald's doesn't allow franchisees any freedom at all. They not only had to use the brands of products McDonald's specified, but buy them from the company McDonald's specified. Can you tell the difference between Diamond Crystal salt and Morton salt? That doesn't mean that McDonald's invented salt. Of course, McDonald's doesn't view the Big Mac as just another double-decker burger. Delligatti may not make a royalty on the sandwich, but McDonald's does - between the franchise fees (based on sales) and the rent (based on sales) and the advertising funds (based on sales), it costs a franchisee something like 20 centa on the dollar when he sells a Big Mac, money that McDonald's doesn't collect on a Big Boy, a Double Whopper, a Wendy's Double, a White Castle double hamburger, or the sandwiches I make in my kitchen. The US patent office says an invention much be new, useful, and non-obvious. You might argue that a Big Mac is useful - it keeps the dogs quiet, just as a hush puppy does - but by 1967, it was hardly new and hardly non-obvious. Every mom-and-pop burger joint in the country beat them to the punch. ClairSamoht 03:55, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Big Mac, an PA invention?

message: I removed the listing of Flight 93 as the first battle and victory against terrorism. It wasn't. The UK has been battling terrorism in Northern Ireland for decades, as has Israel in the mideast. Given that people were calling themselves terrorists as far back as the 1700s, I doubt they were first, either. (No disrespect intended to the passengers of Flight 93. They are honored for their heroism, not because they were innovators.) ClairSamoht 00:27, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Flight 93

message: In regard to the anonymous user(s) who keep(s) including population estimates that are, at best, of dubious origin, I've checked the most readily available sources from the U.S. Census  on population projection and found the following:
*Total population, 4/1/2000: 12,281,054
*Total population estimate, 7/1/2005: 12,429,616
*Projected total population, 2010:  12,584,487
*Projected total population, 2020:  12,787,354
This is nowhere near the estimate of 12,800,000 the user has posted for 2010. And as I have yet to find any racial estimates for 2010, I cannot confirm any of the stats provided, but on the surface, I must conclude that they are absurd.
**I have also checked this official site, and concur that the current numbers listed in article are INCORRECT.Redneb 14:00, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK once again, the racial makeup anao has posted false information. First of his pouplation estimate was wrong, and i have put up the official projections for both 2010 and 2030 with their corsponding documents linked as well. Secondly the refrence that he gives for the racial makeup in 2010 does not have that information. Per the Census Bureau, Projections Branch"The projections were produced for each of the 50 states and the District of Columbia by age and sex for the years 2001 to 2030, based on Census 2000 results,...This set of state population projections represents only an interim update to incorporate the results of Census 2000. During the next year, we anticipate developing a revised set of population projections that will be consistent with a revised set of national population projections and that will include modifications to produce projections by race and Hispanic origin as well as by age and sex.theirfor the Census Bureau have not released any official projections on a state by state basis for the racial or ethinc makeup of a state in ehtier 2010, 2030 or any other year, that have only so far released these figures on a national basis for race only , of which you can not make any projection or derive a projection of the racial makeup of PA. Othet then that the analysis of the information was nothing short of speculation. Now if the user wants to provide the actucall source document bu Census that shows these projections as official, then i will consider it for inclusion, otherwise it is speculation to be thrown out. --Boothy443 |  trácht ar 05:32, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

text: I don't think that we should even use those numbers, being that (even for projections) they would be pretty much outdated. --Boothy443 |  trácht ar 06:32, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Demographics 

message: I am not disputing the fact that PA is the second state, but number 2 has no official status as the other symbols in the list do in the state, see: http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/VC/visitor_info/hello_pennsylvania/symbols.htm . I could understand if their is something form the state that says the official number of the commonwealth is 2, but i cant find anything to that fact, and to be conststanct with the rest of the list i dont think it should be included. --Boothy443 |  trácht ar 08:00, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Official number 

message: It should be noted somewhere in this article that Pennsylvania Offically has the worst roads in the USA. "I could not agree more btw, you can actually see where PA and MD meet, not to mention feel."
I won't believe you until I see a source. Having to drive down Fort Street in Detroit makes me inclined to take your claim with a grain of suspicion. Isopropyl 02:31, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it was laisted as having the worste a couple of years ago, but i dont belive that is the case currently. --Boothy443 |  trácht ar 06:18, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Overdrive ranks PA in 4th place for the worst roads: 1. Arkansas 2. Louisiana 3. Michigan 4. Pennsylvania 5. Illinois.  Being from NW Ohio originally, I can agree on PA having better roads than MI. I'm surprised, though, that states without winter freezing might be in the top two positions. Oh, well, I'll count my blessings. ClairSamoht 03:52, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Roads 

message: Hi.  I have removed this article from the Wikipedia:Good article listing due to the following:
*No references.  One of the GA criteria is that a reference section must be provided.  Inline citations are preferred but not required.  When this issue has been addressed, please feel free to re-nominate.  Thanks! Air.dance 04:06, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Delisted GA

message: The beginning is inconsistent - which of these two named the colony?  Midgley 21:37, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Charles R or WIlliam? 

message: I dont see why we need an in article list if we have a List of people from Pennsylvania as well, makes the in article list redundant. Recomend  moving the list to the list article. Also was this not done once before? --Boothy443 |  trácht ar 04:17, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable Pennsylvanians 

message: This source  states the state was named after William Pennyman. There is no article of William Pennyman. Can anyone find any other source backing this up? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Computerjoe (talk • contribs) .
:Umm you might want to re-read it, it says that Pennyman built Marske Hall, and that it was later occupied by "William Penn who was better known for founding the state of Pennsylvania in America.", So no it was not maked after Pennyman. --Boothy443 |  trácht ar 23:56, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pennyman 

message: I'm a n00b here, so please excuse my errors until I get up to speed.  I noticed that the Notable musicians from Pennsylvania  section completely omits any references to notable musicians from Pittsburgh's jazz scene:  George Benson, Earl "Fatha" Hines, Erroll Garner, Ahmad Jamal, Stanley & Tommy Turrentine, Billy Strayhorn, Billy Eckstine, etc.
Once I finish the tutorial and get my information together, I believe I'll add them to the list.
Bosby1 22:18, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable musicians from Pennsylvania 

message: This article distinguishes between coast and shore, stating that a coast abuts the ocean, and a shore need not do so. However, that distinction is a quibble that most definition do NOT agree with: . It's also one that the US Government does not agree with: the United States Coast Guard maintains a station in Erie, Pennsylvania. 
In as much as Wikipedia leans towards to plain speaking with such policies as Common Names, I think it's more reasonable to refer to the Lake Erie coastline, and the Delaware River shoreline. Consensus? ClairSamoht 03:32, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Coast vs Shore 

message: This article is massively overcited, damaging it's readability. JBKramer 13:54, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree.  When one writes and includes information that is not one's own work, one is obliged to provide a citation.  This allows the reader to verify facts.  As there is no original research on Wikipedia, all articles should, therefore, abound with citations.  This page is, in my opinion, becoming a model of a properly cited article.  "Country" Bushrod Washington 18:57, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  As someone said elswhere - "The effect is almost one of academic parody, and very distracting." Citations are not needed for trivial facts. JBKramer 19:00, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I removed your Cite Check tag.  None of these citations are misinterpereted or inappropriate.  Your complaint is that the article is overcited, not that there is anything inherently wrong or misleading with the citations.  The tag, as I understand it, is not meant for situations like this.  If you feel that too many "trivial facts" are cited, then fix the mistakes.  Don't just throw a tag on the article, and then leave it for others to deal with.  "Country" Bushrod Washington 01:23, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Overcited 

message: If you add up the religion statistics they assume that there are no non religious, atheist or agnostic people in Pennsylvania. This article needs statistics that include all religious orientations.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.26.26.9 (talk • contribs) 
*No. If you read the description and look at the numbers, it says "There were 7,116,348 religious adherents in Pennsylvania in 2000, following 115 different faiths...". The percentages refer just to those identified as religious adherents. Since there are over 12 million people in PA, it is clear there are a lot of people who are not religious (although as the note explains below the entry in question, about 1 million religious adherents are not included in the number used for percenteages. I will try to clarify the statement since it is confusing if not read carefully. Thanks, Ruhrfisch 15:43, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Whoever decided to fix the religion breakdown section:  It doesn't make much sense, given that you go into overlapping detail in certain areas (e.g., Episcopalians, etc. are Protestant denominations, so there will be confusing overlap with "Mainline Protestant" - the analogue would be listing the various Orthodox denominations with adherents in PA, and then having a separate category for "Orthodox.")  Please fix this.  Additionally, I note that the Orthodox percentage has been done away with altogether.  Why? Narsil27 19:48, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Religion Entry

message: There is a grammatical mistake with the sentence "The Commonwealth borders Delaware to the southeast, Maryland to the south, West Virginia to the southwest, Ohio to the west, Lake Erie and the Canadian province of Ontario to the northwest, New York to the north, and New Jersey to the east", which implies that Pennsylvania is to the southeast of Delaware, to the south of Maryland, to the southwest of West Virginia, to the west of Ohio, to the northwest of Lake Erie and the Canadian province of Ontario, to the north of New York and to the east of New Jersey, which is contrary to the truth. In fact, Pennsylvania is to the northwest of Delaware, to the north of Maryland, to the northeast of West Virginia, to the east of Ohio, to the southeast of Lake Erie and the Canadian province of Ontario, to the south of New York and to the west of New Jersey. Therefore, the original sentence should be changed to "The Commonwealth is bordered by Delaware to the southeast, Maryland to the south, West Virginia to the southwest, Ohio to the west, Lake Erie and the Canadian province of Ontario to the northwest, New York to the north, and New Jersey to the east”, which implies that Delaware lies to the southeast of Pennsylvania, Maryland lies to the south, West Virginia lies to the southwest, Ohio lies to the west, Lake Erie and the Canadian province of Ontario lie to the northwest, New York lies to the north, and New Jersey lies to the east.--Onmaditque (talk) 05:08, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Or the sentence can simply be changed to "The Commonwealth shares borders with Delaware to the southeast", etc., which I have done.  General Ization Talk   05:11, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  A grammatical mistake 

message: I have never heard PA said as PEN-sil-VAY-nee-uh, neither by locals (from Appalachia, Pittsburgh, Philly, Harrisburg, or anywhere else) nor non-natives. Five syllables is literally unheard (of). PEN-sil-VAY-nya or PEN-sil-VAYN-ya would be more appropriate, but either way with a yuh or ya sound at the end, definitely not a nee-uh or nee-a!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7D:8E57:3800:A78A:90E:ED25:490B (talk) 21:21, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The audio clip linked in the article is evidence of the poor IPA/phonetic pronunciation suggestions, but unfortunately I don't know how to affect an appropriate correction (for example, copying the wiktionary IPA text for the 2nd pronunciation listed just caused errors).  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7D:8E57:3800:A78A:90E:ED25:490B (talk) 22:55, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation 

message: An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect EPnnsylvania. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so.  Steel1943 (talk) 23:00, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  "EPnnsylvania" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Pencilvania. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so.  Steel1943 (talk) 23:01, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Pencilvania" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Pennfylvania. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so.  Steel1943 (talk) 23:01, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Pennfylvania" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Pennslyvania. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so.  Steel1943 (talk) 23:02, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Pennslyvania" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: Under the abbreviation section, it states that "Penna." is an abbreviation for Pennsylvania. I have lived in Pennsylvania my entire life, and have never seen that abbreviation, and request a removal. Ethan Parmet (talk) 23:33, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Abbreviation 

message: Latino numbers currently not listed in demographics statistics. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Byelf2007 (talk • contribs) 23:51, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: The Census Bureau classifies them as an ethnicity and not a race, so they are counted as white or black. NotSure15 (talk) 23:48, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Latino not in racial breakdown (demographics)

message: The Delaware Valley (Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD Metropolitan Statistical Area) is listed as the largest metropolitan area in Pennsylvania, however I question whether that is correct. Pike County in the northeastern part of the state is in the Tri-State Area (New York-Newark-Jersey City, NY-NJ-PA Metropolitan Statistical Area), which is considerably larger. While the Pittsburgh Metro is a little smaller, it is entirely within Pennsylvania, as the Delaware Valley extends into parts of New Jersey, as well as New Castle County, Delaware and Cecil County, Maryland. I request that this be reviewed, and corrected as needed, or at least edited to exhibit this additional information. NotSure15 (talk) 23:54, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Metro Area 

message: Currently, the Chocolate Chip Cookie is listed at Pennsylvania's state food in the upper sidebar of the article. This is incorrect according to the citation (6) provided. The chocolate chip cookie was proposed as the state cookie, NOT the state food.
In the State Symbols section there is no state aircraft listed. In 2014, the Piper J3 was named the official state aircraft of Pennsylvania in H.B. 1989.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:45:8200:1B50:9819:EEC9:F2C9:2E8E (talk) 23:51, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  State Symbols: Pennsylvania State Food and State Aircraft 

message: Currently, “Demographics” is a sub-section of “Geography.” Would it make more sense to make it (and Municipalities, for that matter) its own section instead? AnandaBliss (talk) 19:22, 12 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should Demographics be its Own Section?