Talk:Death of Marilyn Monroe

message: I edited the phrase "the suspicious circumsicions of her death" to Cirkumstances, since that is either a typo, or a delibrate misstake
::... the word is spelt Circumstances..... - -[The Spooky One] | [t c r] 21:48, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: edited phrase

message: In the trivia section, it states that Monroe's death is "extremely similar" to Presley's death. I have two things to ask about this: 1) Why is this important and 2) Monroe died from a drug overdose. Presley died from a heart condition caused by years of drug abuse and an otherwise unhealthy lifestyle. Hence, I dispute why this "fact" needs to be included at all. Naysie 06:03, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Comparison to Elvis Presley's death

message: I've just removed a section that was titled "FBI Agent", and that read:
:The New York Daily News reported on August 2, 2007 that Producer Keya Morgan had interviewed an FBI agent for his upcoming documentary who says he was sitting outside of Marilyn Monroe's house in a surveillance van the night Marilyn died. The agent claims to have seen Robert Kennedy and other men go inside her home at the time of her death.[1]
The NYDN is not a reliable source. If this documentary comes out and is taken seriously by the NYT or similar, this factoid can go back in. -- Hoary 01:39, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The NYT is a serious rag, I don't believe a word they print :). Anyways --Tom 14:07, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Sorry to brake the news, but millions of people every day do. They are the largest paper in NYC. You should not let your personals feeling about the paper get in the way of your editing.--Bobtoo 21:01, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "FBI Agent"

message: You guys are all missing the main point. This is about Marilyn Monroe, and should not be about your egos and writing wars. How childish! How old are you guys? We should be discussing how she was killed. Anyone in there right mind knows she did not kill herself. The question should be, who? Stop the fighting, she was a living human being who lost her life at a very young age. VERY SAD! Please remember that she was a real person, not a puppet. R.I.P. PS-My father was married to her.--Julia0101 05:39, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In that case please be careful that you don't breach WP:COI. And yes she was a real life person, but emphasis on the was. She was also a very public person therefore both negative and positive exists about her, as such both may exist in this article ---- WebHamster 17:49, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

text: I am not unsympathetic, but we need WP:reliable sources.  You can't make assertions or implicate people without supporting your assertations with references, citations, and specific details as to the sources of your information.  For Wikipedia, you can't just say, "I know."  -Jmh123 05:45, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, and there are a lot of documentation to prove that she was killed. I have a copy of her "Office Of County Coroner" report, file 81128, Aug 5, 1962, which has been published many times. Her death was a result of "Acute Barbiturate Poisoning", "The stomach is almost completely empty... No residue of pills is noted. A smear made from the gastric contents and examined under the polarized microscope shows no refractile crystals." If there were no pills in her system, and they were digested, then there had to be refractile crystals.  That is the reason her cause of death was declared a “Probable suicide" and not “Suicide”.--Julia0101 06:15, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  It isn't our job here to decide, simply to present the evidence.  Provide sourcing for the various theories, and you may present them--by sourcing I mean citations that we can all look at online, or that were originally published in a reliable source such as the LA Times (which means there is access online or in newspaper archives).  -Jmh123 07:37, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

text:  "We should be discussing how she was killed… The question should be, who?" This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Death of Marilyn Monroe article, and not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject. "How childish! How old are you guys?… Anyone in there [sic] right mind…" Please read Wikipedia's policy prohibiting personal attacks. Thank you. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 14:59, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

text:  When I delete something saying "no reference" or "no source," I'm not saying none exists, I'm saying that none is provided in the article. For example, the CBS material for which a ref was provided yesterday: stick to that source when you are crediting it (I deleted all claims that weren't supported by that reference), attribute statements to those who made them (Assistant Attorney General Carroll, who conducted the investigation said), identify the sources of the research that's being presented (biographer and journalist Anthony Summers; 1982 investigation by the LAPD, and so forth).  When or if you re-add material, please provide a source for it, and present it in the same manner.  Thanks.  -Jmh123 17:41, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The Main Point

message: I removed the sentence "Many individuals, including Jack Clemmons, the first Los Angeles Police Department officer to arrive at the death scene,[1] believe that she was murdered."  The source makes no mention of Clemmons and is not a reliable source anyway. 24.189.171.34 (talk) 21:33, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: No source for Jack Clemmons

message: it says
he was preparing to marry him
i think this is wrong  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.216.117.246 (talk) 15:50, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  beginning 

message: The article for "Marilyn Monroe" says about her death: "Many questions remain unanswered about the circumstances of her death..." However, this article claims that "All questions were answered after Monroe's death." Perhaps one of these articles need to be reworded to avoid confusion?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by BozoDawg (talk • contribs) 01:19, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  All questions were answered? 

message: It's not a broken link, but it doesn't show the will. Would anyone like to fix the link or remove it? Thanks Kvsh5 (talk) 06:18, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Marilyn Monroe's Will 

message: I have just reverted a series of edits that asserted (among other things) that a 20th Century Fox documentary is "highly valuable"; that "we know that Marilyn was under attack by Fox Studios"; that "her death is still felt by millions as one of the great individual tragedies of her time"; and that The DD Group: An Online Investigation Into the Death of Marilyn Monroe "stands as the definitive investigative study, and report, on the issues leading up to and occurring in the death of Marilyn Monroe...."; note that it's a self-published source. See WP:NPOV and WP:SPS. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 18:35, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  August 2010 

message: "10:30 p.m.: According to actress Natalie Trundy (later Mrs. Arthur P. Jacobs), Monroe's agent Arthur P. Jacobs hurriedly leaves a concert at the Hollywood Bowl that he is attending with Trundy and director Mervyn LeRoy and his wife, after being informed by Monroe's lawyer Mickey Rudin that she has overdosed. Trundy's timeline fits with undertaker Guy Hockett's (see below) estimation that Monroe died sometime between 9:30 p.m. and 11:30 p.m." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eregli bob (talk • contribs) 07:24, 5 August 2012
: Did you mean, how was Jacobs notified at the concert?  Maybe someone called the venue and an usher was dispatched. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 17:52, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  When was the cell phone invented ? 

message: I'm not sure I understand this statement in the lede. MM's death isn't really mentioned in sources discussing "top conspiracy theories". Two examples: Time   and  Telegraph . Is this statement based on a single source? Can we get further confirmation of this? And what exactly does the Vankin & Whalen source say on this? I cannot imagine that any conspiracy theory has more variations than the 9/11 conspiracies, or even the JFK assassination, so I don't really think this is an accurate statement. Thoughts? --Louisstar (talk) 11:52, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Most conspiracy theories of all time?" 

message: "Written by an unnamed former FBI agent working for the then-California Governor Pat Brown," This is confusing because why would the federal govt FBI work for a governor of a state? I think it could be clarified a bit to help with confusion. On page 18 of this source: http://web.archive.org/web/20011030085124/http://foia.fbi.gov/monroe/monroe2.pdf
It says the special agent is "former special agent, field representative, appointment section, governors office, state of california." I'm not 100% sure and don't mean to do original research but I think he had previously worked for the FBI but then worked for the governor. But why did he make an FBI report then? This source http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2007/03/16/1173722744304.html says "It was compiled by an unnamed former special agent working for the then Democrat governor of California, Pat Brown, and forwarded to Washington by Curtis Lynum, then head of the San Francisco FBI." I think we should include how he forwarded it to Curtis Lynum who did work for the FBI at the time. Popish Plot (talk) 15:14, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  FBI agent who worked for gobernor Pat Brown? 

message: thumb|Thousands of tributes and memorials since 1962 included Lars Jacob's 1972 procession "Marilyn from Everyone" in Miami Beach on the 10th anniversary of her death.
TrueHeartSusie3: If we can get the black blocks removed, where do you think this might fit in? --SergeWoodzing (talk) 17:22, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: If we had a section similar to 'Legacy' in the main article, then I think it could be appropriate.TrueHeartSusie3 (talk) 18:16, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you! I will try to get that done. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 20:02, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: But what kind of a 'legacy' does a person's death have? Monroe's death is famous only because it was so sudden and happened when she was still young, and because of all the various conspiracy theories. TrueHeartSusie3 (talk) 20:47, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I have now done as you so kindly suggested. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 21:11, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough, but that's not what I suggested, and I've reverted your edit. What I meant was if this article, "Death of Marilyn Monroe", had a section similar to 'Legacy' in MM, then the photograph could maybe be used there. But as we don't have such a section in the article, and quite frankly I'm not sure if there's enough material to create one, I don't think the image should be included at the moment. The celebration seems to be of only limited local importance as well.TrueHeartSusie3 (talk) 22:11, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Took me hours to find originals, rescan one of them, rework and reupload a version of this image, done exactly as per your suggestion, and add it to the Legacy section of the main article, as you specifically suggested, but then you deleted it there yourself! You can certainly understand how tricked I feel now, being treated like a pingpong ball? Thank you for apologizing for the runaround you gave me here! I accept your apology and can easily forgive. Forget, I'm not so sure. I think I'll just stay away from a few articles where I'm not a dominant contributor. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 18:05, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: PS The involvement in that tribute, early in their careers, of underground legends like Lars Jacob and Roxanne Russell make it far from "of only limited local importance", in my opinion, but that's just one man's opinion. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 18:10, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

text: PS2 I've reinstated the image, adjusted the caption, written on that talk page, and am asking you kindly to leave it for someone else to remove, if needed. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 18:21, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I never said you should add it to the 'Legacy' section, this is what I've written above: "If we had a section similar to 'Legacy' in the main article, then I think it could be appropriate." That's why I deleted it, you simply misread what I wrote. This memorial is simply not notable enough to be included in the main article, and there's currently no space in the Death of MM article, sorry. TrueHeartSusie3 (talk) 18:25, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I did not know then that you are so active on both articles, so I thought you didn't know there already was a section. "If we had a section similar to 'Legacy' in the main article, then I think it could be appropriate" (quoting you). That's when I did all that work. Why won't you leave the image for someone else to delete, if needed? To me that's such a reasonable request, after what you did to me, that I'm tempted to start a big bruhaha about all this. Wasn't your apology sincere? --SergeWoodzing (talk) 18:40, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm very confused, as I've not done anything to you, you simply misread what I wrote. I've written the majority of the text in both articles, and took MM to FA. Sorry, but especially in the case of a star like Monroe, who has had thousands of photographs taken of her, we have to be very selective about which images we choose for the article. We cannot fit all of them. I understand it is frustrating when you've worked for a long time and then someone reverts your change, but I ask you to consider whether you're arguing for the inclusion of this image because you think it best represents Marilyn Monroe's career and legacy or because of your interest in Lars Jacob and because you've spent so much time on finding and editing the image. It seems that you're very frustrated, so I suggest you take a breather from this article.TrueHeartSusie3 (talk) 18:53, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: If we had a section similar to 'Legacy' in the main article, then I think it could be appropriate (quoting you above). English is my first language, and I taught it for 40 years. I did not "misread" anything. You miswrote, for which I thought you apologized (?) 4 hours later, which however did not seem to have been sincere (?). Since, based on what you miswrote, and before you explained anything else, I did lots of work, according to what you clearly had written, I just feel you could have left it up to someone else to remove this. Common courtesy. That is my only interest now. I did not need your advice about taking a breather from this article, since I had already noticed (as anyone can see) that you control it, and the main article, and so I do not intent to ever try to touch either one of them again. My advice to you is that you let a few others in at times, especially when you obviously owe a bit of common courtesy to another editor who had the best of intentions. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 16:04, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right, now I see that it was more likely a mutual misunderstanding. You thought that I wasn't aware that the MM article has a section about her legacy, and I thought it was obvious that we were talking about this article not having one. I still think your reaction to my removing one image is unreasonably strong. I've done a lot of research on Monroe, and have chosen the images based on that research. I'm open for image changes and certainly don't 'own' the article, but when it appears to me that the rationale behind the change is not based on insight about Monroe but on other, non-related reasons, I think it's fair to oppose the change. If you're thinking of adding material to articles you've never edited before and which are on a subject you've not done a great deal of research on, it's a good idea to first ask whether the editors who are most active on editing the article (if the article is being actively edited) think adding the material is a good idea. That way you'll avoid the irritation of having spent time working on something, only to have your changes reverted. I hope we can put this behind us and move on. TrueHeartSusie3 (talk) 20:11, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: My issue with you is that you removed the image yourself, when you (as I saw it) tricked me into doing hours of work to comply with your own requests. You should have let someone else remove it, if is was to be removed. That would have been perfectly OK with me. Your removing is was very inconsiderate, in my opinion, and so typical of the type of WP:OWN behavior I've seen so many examples of in editing for so many years. So is your (completely incorrect) assumption that I am not knowledgeable about Monroe (some of my best friends knew her well), and your suggestion that people should ask you first before adding to this article or any other article which you "steward". My suggestion is that you leave these 2 articles alone for at least a  month or two. I'm sure lots of other capable editors can "steward" them in the meantime. I'd be able to "leave this behind us and move on" if I saw any evidence at all that you do not wish to control them entirely, rather than evidence to the contrary, which is what I'm still seeing. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 16:40, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

text: The Prince image is appropriate for the section because the First Avenue club was so closely linked with him, and became one of the main memorials in the days after his death. Presumably images from the nightclub were also featured in mainstream media coverages of reactions to his death. The image you want to be included is a minor memorial from 1972 (ten years after her death) with zero links to Monroe and probably no mainstream media coverage. TrueHeartSusie3 (talk) 18:34, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Monroe 10-year death tribute

message: I quote the article: 'Against Monroe's wishes, Lee Strasberg had never distributed her effects amongst her friends,..'
I think this could be described as  promoting a particular cause or point of view, especially a controversial one. Perhaps we agree that  there was something creepy, almost obscene, about selling a celebrity’s personal belongings to strangers. Perhaps one wondered how Monroe would have reacted. However,  Monroe’s will stipulated that 'I give and bequeath all of my personal effects and clothing to LEE STRASBERG, or if he should predecease me, then to my Executor hereinafter named, it being my desire that he distribute these, in his sole discretion, among my friends, colleagues and those to whom I am devoted.' So I think I have a quibble here, concerning what we take 'in his sole discretion' to mean, first of all, and secondly, what we take 'among my friends, colleagues and those to whom I am devoted' to mean. I hate to stick my nose into making updates to these Marilyn Monroe articles, because I see that there is much contention. However, I'm reading about something being against Monroe's wishes, which seems to imply that something is against her 'will'. Maybe so, but that would be illegal. Maybe take it to court, if you have a strong opinion about it, but does such an opinion belong here?DanLanglois (talk) 09:39, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you might want to read the article about what Wikipedia is and isn't. As an encyclopedia, we rely on the information provided by experts in the subject; and this is what the experts on Monroe say. We cannot add our own commentary or analysis. TrueHeartSusie3 (talk) 10:44, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with TrueHeartSusie3. Our opinions are not what matters, that is considered WP:OR. We have to go by what the WP:RS sources state. Kierzek (talk) 16:15, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

text: I suggest you always read the whole article before making such comments. In the first para: "...and 75 percent, including her personal effects, film royalties and real estate, to Lee Strasberg, whom she instructed to distribute her effects "among my friends, colleagues and those to whom I am devoted"." I've referenced Churchwell, but I could easily add others to the footnote, such as Spoto, page 454 (https://books.google.fi/books?id=r2W9SGUyRmgC&printsec=frontcover&dq=spoto+marilyn+monroe&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj7pIP5pI7XAhWBJFAKHcb5AKUQ6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q=effects&f=false). TrueHeartSusie3 (talk) 12:33, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

text: Of course, confused as to why this is supposedly wrong? Spoto's conspiracy theory is listed in the section on said theories and correctly referenced, and  it's also explained why his theory is easily debunked. As for referencing the coroner's report, that would be considered original research and has no place here. Also, as I said, the enema theory stems from one pervert and not from the coroner. Again, it is suggested you take a closer look at the Wiki guides as suggested above.TrueHeartSusie3 (talk) 12:50, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

text: And once again, we can only go by what reliable books and articles say. We CANNOT include our own analysis, it's strictly against Wikipedia's rules. If you are annoyed by the fact that you have to adhere by these rules, then I don't think WP is the place for you. (I'm actually starting to wonder whether you're a sockpuppet of a certain user banned from editing biographies...) TrueHeartSusie3 (talk) 13:00, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

text: Furthermore, the coroner's report is not used as a source. Secondary sources which analyse and quote from the coroner's report are used. It's also really unclear what your beef with Spoto is – we both seem to agree that the enema theory is complete hogwash, and this is also clearly indicated in the article, which reflects current consensus. TrueHeartSusie3 (talk) 13:02, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  'Against Monroe's wishes'? 

message: So, "Death of Marilyn Monroe" is in category 'Female models who committed suicide'. But Marilyn Monroe is not. Logical? I think not. 109.240.142.169 (talk) 06:30, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Female models who committed suicide" 

message: Changed the date from August 5 to the 4th, per the sources on the page (inquest determined that she died on the evening of the 4th). Reverted with a mention of the death certificate saying August 5 (the death certificate lists 3 a.m. on the 5th, the time her body was found). Would the inquest estimate be used and sourced, or use the death certificate which, because of the inquest findings and because it lists the time of body-discovery, may be in error as to the exact time of death? thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 20:16, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Randy Kryn, you raise a valid point.  - what do you think and what do your main RS sources state. I await further input, information. Kierzek (talk) 13:15, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I reverted at first to August 5 because of the death certificate. But since then I think August 4 is appropriate. Sebastian James (talk) 16:10, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: You raise a good point! I think that indeed that inquest states 5th, which is confusing if indeed it was estimated she had died already on the 4th. Unfortunately I'm unable to check my sources right now due to busy off-wiki week, but I will try to get back to this on the weekend! Please ping again if I forget!TrueHeartSusie3 (talk) 20:25, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: To finally get back to this, yes indeed the death certificate may state 5 August, but she died on the 4th. This is due to estimations based on the level of rigor mortis, placing her death between 8:30PM and 10:30PM. So August 4 is correct. TrueHeartSusie3 (talk) 13:16, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Date of death

message: Is it not true Eunice Murray and her husband were members of the Communist Party?Simon Le Messurier (talk) 19:49, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Whoops, wrong decade. Randy Kryn (talk) 20:45, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

text: I am a new user ....but  2015 discussion on 'Delete' was left on the Talk page of Eunice Murray, the suffrage campaigner 
   - but it relates to this Eunice R Murray, so I  will move it into this talk section, below. 
Apologies if this is the incorrect protocol, but it confuses readers on the other Eunice Murray unnecessarily. Thanks
Kaybeesquared (talk) 15:55, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Eunice Murray

message: https://www.realtime1960s.com/post/president-s-youngest-brother-roughed-up-in-boston-debate . .
Edward Kennedy evening of Aug. 27, 1962 his primary debate.Campaign: 1962 United States Senate special election in Massachusetts
Death of Marilyn Monroe August 3 1962.
Monroe's was a fortuitous death avoiding a hypothetical pending scandal of unprecedented immensity in American political and social history.
The reported projected press conference by the actress claimed by the actress in an impetuous outburst for her purpose of calling a convocation of reporters and journalists to "lift the lid off this whole damn thing" was never held.
It is time, about time, or soon to be on time, that the lady's death and the initiate month of the youngest Kennedy's political life is understood in an extraordinary close proximity of chronology.
"Let's go!" said Dwight Eisenhower and D-day was commenced.
The word from whom set in motion the blonde celebrity's death?
It can be considered among some carefully selected considerations within which occurred the decision for the fateful elimination.
There is no publication permitting citation that would allow the youngest brother to be brought to the Wikipedia page in the matter of the Death of Marilyn Monroe. Laurencebeck (talk) 04:18, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: The above is WP:OR, at best. Kierzek (talk) 18:46, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Younger Kennedy's political career commencement proximity.