Talk:Kelmendi (tribe)

message: Kelmendi is pure 100% ALBANIAN, no slavs
:Actually, there are. Kelmendi dispersed into Montenegro, causing inter-ethnic marriages with the Slavs. --Prevalis 20:15, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: However distant actual origin of the clan's formation is Slavic. --PaxEquilibrium 22:14, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Their Serb origin is just a theory, not proven fact. Even the people I know who descend from the Kelmendi say that the Kelmendis are Albanians and of Albanian origin, and not of Serb origin. It's like saying Ibrahim Rugova (former Premier of Kosovo; a Kosovar Albanian descending from the Kelmendi) is a Serb, something he's not as he fought for Albanian rights in Serbian and for Kosovar independence. --Prevalis 20:19, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please take your bullshit elsewhere.  Kelmendi is not Serbian origin, everyone there is Albanian, and nobody other than Serbs claims that they are Serbs.  I know, half the Balkans were once part of Serbia and everyone is a Serb but just doesn't realize, but wikipedia is supposed to be above petty nationalism.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.42.225.161 (talk) 01:42, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Serbs have tried to claim every significant figure and event in Albanian history to try to justify their presence in the Balkans.14:49, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Origin

message: This article, along with the notion that it has serbian origins is nothing short of absurd. I am from that clan, and can trace my ancestry along the male line to the 1600's, where the location of origin was Albania proper even prior to the 1600's. The serbian truncations were forced upon the people who lived in the former yugoslavia, and are remnants of oppression. Additionally, several of the family names there don't belong, or have faulty information as to the origins and current kinship information.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Antishkja (talk • contribs) 04:08, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article 

message: I had to revert these big changes made by 69.119.255.190.
69.119.255.190 if you are viewing this, then please make changes but in a much smaller sense so they can be reviewed easily. And one more thing, please describe each change with a summary. Cheers. — Kedaditalk 17:59, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  August 2010 

message: Page copy of Augustino Theiner's Vetera Monumenta (a non-Yugoslav source which was deleted, it mentioned the origin), and the "popoli quasi tutti latini, e di lingua Albanese e Dalmata" (almost all are Catholics, speaking Albanian and Serbian)" was changed into the faulty "almost all are Catholics, speaking Albanian and Dalmatian" (see the same page: "dalmatinisch, i.e. Slawisch und Orthodox [like Bjelopavlici]"). Questionable edit comment of User:Majuru: "Clean up with modern sources that replace old/unverifiable ones" and "Bjelopavlici, originally Palabardhi, Orthodox Albanians later slavicised".  The clan IS Albanian, nonetheless, their origin (geneaology and early history) should not be deleted, if sourced many, many times around. Majuru, you may complement the article with sources, but "replacing" (deleting) [all "other"] sources [which according to you are unverifiable], is not OK, but if you insist, please explain. Hope we can resolve this. --Zoupan (talk) 19:29, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unexplained deleted sources 

message: I would like to add that the surname Balidemaj is named after Bali Dema, an army commander in the Battle of Nokshiq. Malsia E Madhe (talk) 22:04, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Montenegro, Plav-Gusinje 

message: The article is about region and tribe. The name refers only to region. Does anybody object renaming to Kelmend only?--Antidiskriminator (talk) 21:48, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: That would be a good idea.
The name "Kelmend" in albanians means "Ke mend" (Sharp minded),which theory was supported by Milan Šufflay.AlbertBikaj (talk) 21:48, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Requested uncontroversial move.--Zoupan 17:38, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: "Kelmend tribe" (3), "Kelmendi tribe" (17), "Kelmend municipality" (0).--Zoupan 17:52, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: :I am certain that whoever wrote large portions of this article either never had full access to the bibliography he used or was using it in a very warped manner for his own ends . For example, Marin Bizzi is quoted as saying that Kelmendi spoked Albanian and Dalmatian. He didn't. He used the name Kelmendi to refer to all the tribes of Montenegro and northern Albania. The actual quote is: It grieves me a lot that because of the high snowfall, I wasn't able to visit the Kelmendi peoples,  who are almost entirely Latin, speak Albanian and Dalmatian and are divided in ten katuns: Kelmendi, Gruda, Hoti, Kastrati, Shkreli, Tuzi all Latins and Bjelopavlici, Piperi, Bratonosici, these are Dalmatians and Kuci of whom half are schismatics and half Latin.
:The Albanian families of Gjonbalaj(Gjombalaj), Ulaj, Ahmetaj and Vuçetaj had, according to a Serbian source, previously the surnames of Đomboić, Uljević, Ahmetović and Vučetović The Serbian source says that before the 1990s, Albanians in Plava had -ić suffixes. In the 1990s, because persecution was not the same as in Yugoslavia they started to revert to their old surnames before 1946. The way the article makes it seem is as if these were the original surnames of these people and at some vague point in history (certainly not the 1990s) they changed their names. Whoever wrote this in this manner knew very well that the source didn't say anything of the sort.
:Milan Šufflay (1879-1931) noted that among some Kelmendi, Nikola "Sharp-minded" Kolmendija (Nikola Oštroumni Kolmendija) was noted as the founding father. He never wrote that. He wrote that there is a folk etymology about a Kol Mendi (Nicholas the Clever), from the whom the community took its name Pučka etimologija izvodi to ime od pradjeda, koji se zvao Kol-mendi, oštroumni Nikola. in the original. Tomić (1913) that Kelmendi was originally Orthodox and Serbian will go. WP:AGEMATTERS-WP:RS It's basically a pamphlet written in the Balkan Wars to legitimize the expansion of the Serbian state southwards. Also, there is no archival evidence that ever supported it, including everything that archival research since then has showed. This wouldn't pass in a peer review process of a paper in 2020, so it doesn't have to pass in wikipedia either.--Maleschreiber (talk) 04:17, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bibliography