Talk:Moldova/Archive 2

message: Links from districts point to the county capitals, but they should point to counties, e.g. not Drochia but Raionul Drochia. Links like Anenii Noi County should be redirected not to Anenii Noi but to Raionul Anenii Noi. 
I've uploaded locator maps of counties in WikiCommons. They may be used in county pages. --Zserghei 10:30, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Raionul is russian. Who needs russian terms in English Wikipedia? Serghei I know you're russian from Moldova but stop pushing your POV fork  Bonaparte  talk 15:01, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  You don't understand my point of view. Raionul Drochia may be redirected to Drochia County or vice versa, but not to town of Drochia. The same with section Administrative_divisions. --Zserghei 15:16, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Serhio I have written something in your user talk-page; I think its under archive now but I would really like you to take a look at it. Poate o să-ţi mai domolească oleacă românofobia.Constantzeanu 15:15, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Moldova#Administrative_divisions|Administrative divisions]] 

message: Moldova's population does not place it 117th (error) as shown, but rather between 127th-131st.   
Maybe this is not the best place to bring this up, but does anyone know if the recent census data in both RM and PMR have released their final versions. I noticed in the Tiraspol article and Tighina article that the population is reported to be 266.000 and 157.000 resp. which results in more then 400.000 people out of a 555.000 total for all of PMR. This seems to me a little off. Does anyone have a ref. for this data?Constantzeanu 15:12, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It appears that neither Moldova, nor the MRT have released any official results. On the official Moldovan page: http://www.statistica.md/recensamint.php?lang=ro it says that only preliminary results exist. On Olvia Press, the main press organ of the MRT the last article I could find on the subject stated:  В республиканском Центре обработки материалов переписи населения работа еще далеко не завершена (In the center of the republic, work on materials from the census is far from finished ....). TSO1D 15:47, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Then someone should use World Gazeteer data on the populations of Tiraspol and Tighina. I find it quite strange that the PMR census shows only 555.500 people in all of Transnistria but Tiraspol and Tighina toghether contain more then 400.000 of those. That leaves only 150.000 for the rest of Transnistria which seems to me very inaccurate. Constantzeanu 01:08, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The results from the recent census are in fact suspect, however so are results from previous studies, especially unofficial ones. I do not see a way to assess the veracity and accuracy of any of the results that are available in various sourses. I suppose the best way to deal with the problem is to utilize the results provided by MRT government, especially after they will be made official (if ever). After all, as suspicious as these numbers might seem, the official census is still the best source. TSO1D 03:59, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

text: I agree but there is no proof that these numbers of 266.000 and 157.000 actually come form the official gov. census. Constantzeanu 06:53, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Census

message: Related to the idea that RM "hopes to join EU in 2010": this is simply an immaterial remark and should be removed. There is no official document somehow endorsed by EU which would confirm such a hope. A somebody rather familiar with the political and economical realities of RM, I don’t think that the wishful thinking of some Moldovan officials about joining EU anytime soon should be introduced in a serious article. Moreover, I think that, instead of introducing these kinds of uncorroborated statements, one should say something about the more realistic perspectives regarding the EU vs. RM relationship: for instance, this country is indeed in cards as a subject of the EU's New Neighbors program.--MarioF 00:29, 15 January 2006
Even though I strongly against Moldova joining the EU, I protest your desire to remove that comment. Yes, many Moldavians dont endorse the union, but the governing body does plan on joining the EU on the first opportunity. This can be seen from the Parliament's unanimous vote to approve the program on EU intigration, presidents speach on 2005 New Year's Eve speach that mentioned his hopes, and this will has also been seen from the program established by the EU especially to deal with the Moldavian integration that has been enforced for well over 6 years now. Moldova is also planning on entering the EU membership competion in Athens in 2006, and has already provided 178,000 lei fee for the admission. So yes, the current goverment does want to integrate into EU and i hope you carefully consider my arguments- ktoto
 (UTC)
::I don't understand your point. Anyone with a minimum of information about the official and unofficial reluctance of EU with respect to any new admissions - including Croatia which is incomparably much more qualified than RM - must admit that the idea of RM becoming a member of EU in 2010 is almost hilarious and is totally uncalled in a wikipedia article. Even before bringing about the actual economical and political situation in RM... Even Voronin - a character which can hardly be considered as reasonable and realistic especially when it comes to launching populist messages - cannot be cited as "hoping" for membership in 2010. Why? Because the idea is so ridiculous that it cannot be realistically sold even to the extremely uninformed public of RM. Anyway, the presumed "hopes" are hardly less ridiculous even when considered formally: for example Romania, a country which became associate member of 1994 and started accession talks in 2000 is scheduled to become a member only in 2007 - 7 years after it started negotiations. On the other hand, RM is not even a potential associated partner of EU and, even if it were, the negotiation procedures are set to be much more complicated, harsh and longer for the newly accepted candidate countries - Croatia, Macedonia and Turkey. RM is not considered even in the same basket with the other group - Albania, Serbia and Bosnia. C'mon, in order to keep Wikipedia a veridical and serious source of information, one should avoid intoxicating the innocent visitor with this kind of underhanded propaganda.--MarioF 21:16, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Hopes of joining EU

message: As i can see there are many peoples working on many articles related to the topic Moldova. But i'm wondering if there's actually no centralised portal for this country? Portal Overview - Would be nice. Greetings --Perconte 02:42, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The reason for this occurance is that the link is intended for users who are more interested in the linguistic aspects of the issue rather than the political ones presented on the moldovan language page. I believe that this situation is logical and should not be ammended in the manner proposed by you. TSO1D 01:50, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Portal for Moldova 

message: In the fact box, when you click on Moldovan as the official language the link goes to Romanian language, whether or not you feel they are the same language, the link should go to Moldovan language. When this page is unlocked this needs to be sorted out. --Horses In The Sky 18:50, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The reason for this occurance is that the link is intended for users who are more interested in the linguistic aspects of the issue rather than the political ones presented on the moldovan language page. I believe that this situation is logical and should not be ammended in the manner proposed by you. TSO1D 01:50, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The moldovan language page provides further links to whatever one may want. mikka (t) 22:29, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

text: But according to many Moldovans they are linguisticly different hence its official status as a language. I just think it is insulting to those that believe it is a independent language to bypass it. Maybe there should be a footnote to the bottom of the fact box stating its simularity to Romanian, but the link should go to Moldovan. --Horses In The Sky 22:18, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The language is not recognized as a seperate language by any other country. The redirect is correct. --Candide, or Optimism 22:24, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The redirect is incorrect. There is Moldovan language article. Period. Any other tricks are discrimination. mikka (t) 22:27, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

text: This is a debate that often takes place on sites regarding Moldova or its language. Nevertheless, a great number of the contributors to the article are actually from that region and would be considered moldovans by all criteria. It is my firm belief (and one that I consider self-evident) that no person can assess the situation as well as them for they are aware of all aspects of the debate. From what I can see the majority of moldovan users of Wikipedia support the idea that the romanian and 'moldovan' languages are identical as do the overwhelming majority of proffessional linguists (I mean you can only find one or two who disagree which should speak for itself). Although all wikipedia users are welcome to discuss this issue, I maintain that one should give greater consideration to the people whom this issue affects directly. Don't you find it interesting that there are virtually no moldovans who are on the other side of the debate. The greates defenders of the moldovan language on wikipedia are of other nationalities and ethnicities and only have a slight understanding of the problem but are only intersted in the debate because of its political implications. TSO1D 15:38, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I respect your statement of your belief, but I am afraid that some of your premises are wrong. Being one of these "one or two", I never questioned the "Moldo-Romanian linguistic identity". Moreover, I myself added this phrase into the Moldovan language article. At the same time, there is a well-known fact that an attempt to rename the language in Moldova failed, for whatever reasons. therefore I stand that sneaking this renaming into the official infobox of the state is a disrespect of the sovereign state. Let the readers go to Moldovan language page and understand what's going on. mikka (t) 20:37, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

text: I suppose the best method to resolve this question is by including both links to the Moldovan language and to Romanian language (the latter perhaps in parantheses. This will allow users to either go to the Moldovan page were the conflict regarding the language is disputed or to the romanian page where linguistic information is found. TSO1D 22:53, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

text: You don't really get the idea, do you? As long as the Moldovan Constitution states here, that the state language is called Moldovan, so will it stay in Wikipedia. You can compare the linguistic aspects all you want, heck, the actual language could be Urdu for all I care, but as long as the law says it's Moldovan, Wikipedia must link the name to Moldovan language, where its similarity to Urdu or whatever should be noted accordingly. --Illythr 23:43, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Language Link 

message: The official statistics shows Moldovans and Romanians separately.  Someone insists to lump them. Official data must be restored unconditinally. mikka (t) 22:27, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Demographics

message: Is this article ready for unprotection? It's been 3 weeks. --Woohookitty(cat scratches) 05:18, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you crazy. People can't agree on stuff. Constantzeanu 05:30, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  People like me who go through the pages that are protected often have no knowledge of the issues involved, which is why we ask before unprotecting. Civility please. --Woohookitty(cat scratches) 05:11, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protection 

message: I am going to unprotect the article. It has been protected for 7 weeks. As a wiki, we can't really go beyond that. If it gets bad, I'll reprotect. --Woohookitty(cat scratches) 11:36, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unprotecting 

message: : Do not move or rename a page by copying/pasting its content, because doing so destroys the edit history. bogdan 22:38, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I support this move, because country articles are never supposed to have the full name in the title. --Khoikhoi 08:21, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

text: If you would kindly read the debate, you'll notice that the topic has been approached. The name for the Romanian region in the English language is Moldavia, not "Moldova". The disambigation would be useful on Romanian wiki, and only there. At most, this article ought to have a caption on top saying something like Moldova is also the Romanian language name for the region of Moldavia. See my point?Dahn 14:47, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Whaddya know. The caption it does have is better than the one I proposed. Dahn 15:00, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moving to Moldova 

message: I know three people - a couple I know and a professor I had - who visited Moldova prior to its independence from the USSR, and all three recall it as the most corrupt part of Eastern Europe in terms of bribery, fraud, etc.  A news-related item regarding this is at .  Does anyone have first-hand knowledge about the culture of crime in Moldova?  I don't want to write anything negative based on my limited knowledge, but, if this knowledge reflects recent Moldovan history, it should be stated in the article, as in the article on Sicily.
:That's a personal impression. Bribery is ubiquitous, so always someone runs into it here or there. Moldova no better or worse of the general rule of thumb: the poorer the country, the more visible bribery there. mikka (t) 22:52, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criminal history? 

message: Moldova has enriched its own culture adopting and maintaining the most beautiful of traditions.
We can't keep that part where it says, "the most beautiful of traditions." I don't think I need to explain why. --Candide, or Optimism 20:27, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You can clean its POV, but this section is a standard one in descriptions of all countries. mikka (t) 21:29, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Culture section 

message: Ok guys, I have been quiet for quite some time about the subject but as it is right now this article is wrong for a number of reaons. I would like to call your attention on the following points:
*1) The largest cities section is dead wrong. According to the last census Chisinau has just a little over 640.000 people. Balti has about 122.000 and Tighina is estimated at around 110.000, while Tiraspol at around 165.000 - but certainly not 266.000 - all of Transnistria has just over 550.000.
*2) The ethnic map depicts Romanians and Moldovans as the same group. Obviously this is a very contested issue. Although most Moldovans on wiki will probably tell you that there is no difference between the two, some ethnic-Russians for some reasons or another will try to force a certain POV that Moldovans are ethnically somewhat different then Romanians. The point is that the view in the world which prevails is that Moldovans and Romanians are in fact the same. So why are we sepparating the two ethnic groups in the demographics section? Please go on CIA WORLDFACTBOOK and see what they have to say there about Moldova.  Constantzeanu 02:53, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: On point 2: We're separating them because the Moldovan census makes this distinction. I agree that it's silly, but the silliness is theirs, not ours. If we aggregate the numbers we conceal an officially-made distinction. We can certainly discuss the arbitrariness of the distinction, but we shouldn't hide it. - Jmabel | Talk 03:48, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: A few points to consider

message: Why is it labeled an "emblem"?  Isn't it clearly the arms of the country?  --Daniel C. Boyer 19:26, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you perhaps not familiar with the definition of the word emblem. Perhaps I can aid you in this case: Just follow this link to find elightenment http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=emblem. TSO1D 03:29, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Emblem

message: Cine sunt persoanele care nu acceptă că limba română e identică cu aşa zisa limbă moldovenească? Cine mai crede în ziua de azi că există o limbă separată, de sine stătătoare? --Iasi 20:32, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Please translate into English. `'mikka (t) 20:33, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Întrebare/Question

message: There is an edit-conflict going on, whether Romanian should be placed as an official language of Moldova. This should be easy to solve; it is not a question of whether Romanian and Moldovan are interchangable (the Moldovan census shows that they are), but rather what term is official. I know the census shows that many Moldovans stated that their language is Romanian, but is Romanian under that name also recognized as official in Moldova? Alexander 007 23:28, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it is not. The official terminology is Moldovan and this is what Wikipedia should say. Official Language is the language listed in a country constitution: "An official language is a language that is given a privileged legal status in a state, or other legally-defined territory. It is primarily the language of the constitution". Regards,Asterion 00:59, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Official language