Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Fishes

message: Quality assessments by Wikipedia editors rate articles in terms of completeness, organization, prose quality, sourcing, etc. Most wikiprojects follow the general guidelines at Wikipedia:Content assessment, but some have specialized assessment guidelines. A recent Village pump proposal was approved and has been implemented to add a  parameter to , which can display a general quality assessment for an article, and to let project banner templates "inherit" this assessment.
No action is required if your wikiproject follows the standard assessment approach. Over time, quality assessments will be migrated up to , and your project banner will automatically "inherit" any changes to the general assessments for the purpose of assigning categories.
However, if your project has decided to "opt out" and follow a non-standard quality assessment approach, all you have to do is modify your wikiproject banner template to pass  a new  parameter. If this is done, changes to the general quality assessment will be ignored, and your project-level assessment will be displayed and used to create categories, as at present. Aymatth2 (talk) 20:17, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Project-independent quality assessments 

message: In taxa such as Mbipia and Haplochromis redlinks are made to Elizabeth, rather than Elisabeth Lippitsch. Her Wikispecies bio uses "s", as does her LinkedIn Profile and ResearchGate entry and the articles accessible there. As this is not my normal field of editing I thought I would raise it here, rather than simply being bold and making all the changes straight away. Oronsay (talk) 20:42, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I changed the spelling in Haplochromis. It was already correct in Mbipia. The links are still a redlinks, though. I wonder what the policy is for interwiki linking and whether it is appropriate to link to the Wikispecies bio page. —  Jts1882 | talk  06:46, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you. I will make changes to other taxon articles where that link has been entered in the next day or so. I haven't come across links to Wikisource bios in en:wiki and hers has little information in it, so I think it's probably best left as a straight redlink. Oronsay (talk) 06:50, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Seeking help with Elisabeth Lippitsch 

message: There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Melanotaenia fluviatilis#Requested move 29 August 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. —usernamekiran (talk) 04:13, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move at [[Talk:Melanotaenia fluviatilis#Requested move 29 August 2023]] 

message: There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Scaevius milii#Requested move 13 November 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. UtherSRG (talk) 17:44, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move at [[Talk:Scaevius milii#Requested move 13 November 2023]] 

message: Hello WPF. I'm here to ask for help with a big cleanup of vandalism to fish articles: please see WP:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Alomomola_and_common_names_of_fish. If it's not clear what the problem is after reading that, I'm happy to supply examples of what needs reverting. Thanks, Wikishovel (talk) 22:11, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for mentioning this here. I have been working on some of the cleanup tonight, but as someone who lacks extensive knowledge about fish, it is a rather difficult and time-consuming task. Hopefully, someone with fish expertise will be able to help. I will also post the request on the Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Marine life page as well. Thanks again! Wikipedialuva (talk) 05:26, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for your help. I'm no fish expert either, so you're right that the search part is difficult and time consuming. Didn't know there was a separate Marine Life project, and thanks very much for the post there: will keep an eye on it for advice. Wikishovel (talk) 08:43, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think that the fake common name "Bicolor conger" page title needing to be moved to the scientific name "Rhynchoconger bicoloratus" page is the last page move that needs to be done for this user's fake name vandalism. Since there was a redirect from the scientific name to the fake common name, I can't move it. I put in a move request at Wikipedia:Requested moves/Technical requests, but thought I'd let you know as well since you are a page mover. There is still work to be done on article bodies, but I believe this is the last of the moves that will need to be made. Thanks! Wikipedialuva (talk) 09:21, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Good catch Wikipedialuva, thank you. User:The Blade of the Northern Lights, could you please move Bicolor conger to Rhynchoconger bicoloratus without redirect? Thanks in advance, Wikishovel (talk) 09:33, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  Oops, I spoke too soon. "Brazilian puffer" also needs to be moved to "Sphoeroides camila" as well. It turns out there is more than one species commonly known as the "Brazilian puffer", but "Sphoeroides camila" does not appear to be one of them. Thanks again! Wikipedialuva (talk) 09:36, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: How about we convert that into a disambiguation page then, listing the species that have that as a common name? So far, I can only see that in RS online as a common name for Colomesus asellus. Wikishovel (talk) 09:39, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  I looked into it more (as I noted earlier, I am far from a fish expert), and it appears that the different names I was seeing are all the same species: "colomesus asellus". (Colomesus asellus has been listed under different scientific names, including "chelichthys asellus", which I initially thought was a different species). When the current page "Brazilian puffer" (real name Sphoeroides camila) gets moved, the page can then be made to a redirect to the real "Brazilian puffer" (colomesus asellus) if that sounds good to you. Thanks again for all your help! Wikipedialuva (talk) 09:58, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: User:The Blade of the Northern Lights has just moved Bicolor conger as requested above (thanks!), and for now I'm going to move Brazilian puffer to the now-G6'd Sphoeroides camila without a redirect, on the grounds of reverting vandalism  by a blocked vandal. I'm no fish expert either, and would prefer to do the least harm possible while reverting vandalism. So I hope members of this WikiProject will feel free to create either a redirect or a disambiguation page as they see fit, if they can find RS to confirm the common name in the article(s) linked, thanks. Wikishovel (talk) 10:08, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks for the move! I found a reliable source for the common name for "colomesus asellus" having the common name "Brazilian puffer" and added it (with WP:RS) to the article. If there are no objections, I'll create the page "Brazilian puffer" with a redirect to "colomesus asellus". Thanks! Wikipedialuva (talk) 10:21, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

text:  The source describing Sphoeroides camila (Araujo et al 2023) gives proposed English (Southern bandtail puffer) and Brazilian (Baiacu-pinima) common names. These are not common names in the Wikipedia sense, as the scientific name is currently the most used name. It's a new fish species, recognised in Catalog of Fishes (which doesn't give common names), but not yet by Fishbase (which does). These two fish resources are usually in agreement, but Fishbase is more comprehensive and tends to be slower. I've remove Brazilian puffer from the Wikidata entry. There are quite a few common names edits at Wikidata Contributions:Alomomola. —  Jts1882 | talk  10:54, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks Jts1882, I haven't even begun to look at cleanup of their Wikidata vandalism. Wikishovel (talk) 11:14, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

text: The ANI discussion has now been archived to WP:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1143#Alomomola and common names of fish, thanks again. Wikishovel (talk) 07:11, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help wanted with mass cleanup of vandalism to fish articles 

message: There is a new phylogenetic classification of Actinopterygii. It's in press but a preprint is available at Zenodo. There are some twitter posts on it: Sept 16 and  Nov 27.
The classification is unranked, but may not be strictly Phylocode (at least many definitions say "not defined using the PhyloCode"). It avoids redundancy so monotypic taxa are not assigned higher taxa, e.g. Lepidogalaxias salamandroidea and Polymixia are listed as such and not assigned families or orders which would have the exact same content. The Percomorpha part of this classification was summarised in Dornburg & Near (2021; ), but this new paper includes the complete descriptions for all Actinopterygii, plus some changes in the Percomorph classification in Dornburg & Near (2021).
Apart from the classification itself, the paper could be a valuable resource. Each definition comes with a reference phylogeny, which in most cases is a recent study. Of particular interest is the inclusion of about 20 figures with fossil taxa added to the molecular phylogenies for different parts of the tree. —  Jts1882 | talk  16:16, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: The monograph should be published this week (18 April). For anyone interested, Thomas Near gave a presentation on this work last week and it is available online at YIBS Seminar - Thomas Near, Challenges and solutions in converting phylogenies to taxonomies in ray-finned fishes. —  Jts1882 | talk  14:47, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text:  The paper is now published as Near and Thacker (2024). —  Jts1882 | talk  07:58, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  New phylogenetic classification of ray-finned fish from Thomas Near 

message: Hey, people. Is there a reason why :Category:Brackish water organisms is nearly empty and :Category:Brackish water fish not even in existence? I reckon that many articles would fit there. Even :Category:Euryhaline fish might be useful. Surtsicna (talk) 18:22, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I assume it is because there is no editor interested enough to add the categories. As :Category:Brackish water organisms is sparsely populated there is no need for subcategories. It certainly makes sense to create :Category:Brackish water fish as a subcategory of :Category:Fish by habitat if you are interested in working on this. FishBase has this information so there must be plenty of candidate articles. —  Jts1882 | talk  16:33, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brackish category 

message: There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Molly Miller#Requested move 9 January 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 18:39, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move at [[Talk:Molly Miller#Requested move 9 January 2024]] 

message: The redirect Kanpachi has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached.  asilvering (talk) 21:06, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Tagging this wikiproject in for assistance since I don't know how many people familiar with scientific names of fish are watching RfD. Thanks in advance for any input! -- asilvering (talk) 21:07, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  "[[:Kanpachi]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: Hello, I've come here to ask for assistance in creating "Fishing industry in [country]" articles! I'm well aware that this subject more of fits the Fishing and Fisheries wikiproject, however, that project seems to have little to no activity, so I doubt that the topic I made over there will get any attention. Some background as to why I'm asking for help:
I've noticed that many countries are missing a "Fishing industry in [country]" article, many of which are very deserving and needing of such an article. I've also noticed that, for the few that do have an article, many do not go in-depth or sufficiently cover the topic very well. Some even only have as far as a couple sentences.
This is why I'm asking for assistance in creating/expanding/improving these articles. I simply cannot do it by myself, and considering I've already taken 3 months creating a draft for the fishing industry in Peru, it's obvious that I can't do it alone. Hopefully people can partake in helping, thank you! (P.S., I noticed that a similar topic above has pointed out that a list needs to be made to record progress, so I've created such a page here. Join in helping if you want!) SonOfYoutubers (talk) 23:23, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help in creating/improving "Fishing industry in [country]" articles 

message: I wrote Ombilinichthys tonight. It's a genus with only one species. Should it be renamed to refer to the species? Zanahary (talk) 06:21, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: The standard setup for monotypic taxa (up to any degree of monotypy) is to place the article at the genus level, and note the species in the article, and the taxobox if desired. So your current configuration is fine (including the redirect from the species name). - Just FYI, note that for fossil taxa, the article is generally kept at the genus level even if there are multiple species, unless there is an unusual amount to say about a species. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 07:18, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should this monotypic taxon article be about a genus or species? 

message: Over on Wikipedia talk:Notability‎, several editors are working on a draft proposal to replace our current notability guidelines for species (all species are notable) with something much more restrictive (only species that go beyond certain limited pieces of information would be allowed their own articles). If you have opinions on this issue, now would be a good time to weigh in there. —David Eppstein (talk) 00:20, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Potential significant change to species notability 

message: I propose merging Halieutopsis vermicularis with Halieutopsis nasuta, although FishBase still has a separate entry for H. vermicularis it does have a note that it is considered to be a synonym of H. nasuta, as does the IUCN Red List page for H. vermicularis. Catalog of Fishes is more definite. To discuss go to Talk:Halieutopsis nasuta.
Quetzal1964 (talk) 12:28, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal 

message: I propose to update fishbase templates to using a module, which will generate CS1/CS2 compliant citations (e.g. ). I initially wrote the module for the Catalog of fish templates (, ,, etc.), which needed additions to make permalinks. These have been in use for five years. I made an option for FishBase in the sandbox at the same time but held off making the change because the template is high use. Now I propose to make the change as I’m confident it should be functionally transparent for existing uses (apart from some minor formatting changes consistent with CS1/CS2) while conferring several advantages. 
Some advanatages will be 
*  consistency with CS1/CS2 citations, 
*  easier updates when fishbase make changes
*  the ability to use all the other citation template parameters when required (e.g. 
**  setting |access-date, 
** selecting the citations style used by and article: e.g. setting  for pages using  and other CS1 templates or  for pages using  or  for pages using Vancouver style
**  using |quote
** using archived pages 
*  allowing other pages on Fishbase to be cited by setting a  and , with the template automatically providing the other cite web parameters (author, website etc). Such pages include common names lists, synonym lists, notes on the Fishbase classification.
There are a number of issues that should be addressed:
*  The templates default the month and year to April 2006. I think it would be better to omit this, as some later citations incorrectly default to this, but its retained in my current version so existing citations will be unchanged.
*   is no longer useful. The subspecies links now go to the species page (FishBase made this change sometime between 2015 and 2017)
*   has options for parameter  and . I found two pages with the ID and both also have  meaning the ID was never used, while  is not used. This option will be dropped unless there is demand.
While I intend to keep the suite of fishbase citation templates (for backward compatibility), all the functionality will be available in the  template, as follows:
*  using  and ) will behave like the current 
*  using  without  will be equivalent to 
*  using  will be equivalent to , 
*  using  will be equivalent to , 
*  and so on.
Any comments?  —  Jts1882  | talk  14:56, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conversion of FishBase Citation templates