Talk:Allsvenskan

message: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fotbollsallsvenskan should redirect here.  Note the *en* and not the *sv*.  Douglas A. Whitfield of http://www.ibiblio.org/cosi (talk) 01:07, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Redirect

message: Since the article has the name "Allsvenskan" , it must mainly deal with the subject of this. Play-offs during the 80's and early 90's can be mentioned, but the focus myst be on the league as such. There were competitions about the Championchip title long before Allsvenskan was founded but this article ought f.i. to deal with winners of Allsvenskan rather than winners of the championchip. This has nothing to do with what SvFF recognizes or not, but sooner Wikipedia standard. Also a history part is called for, this should (apart from common historical events) deal how the teams of the first season qualified, and with differencies of the rules. When the yellow and red card became introduces. When substitutions became introduced etc. Changes of the offside rule, I think there is atleast two of those. One rather early and the one in the 90's. Also when 3 point for won games was introduced, and when goal ratio was abandoned in favor of goal differency when teams ended at the same number of points. Also how and when the season shifted "from autumn to spring" to "from spring to autumn", how many teams that has participated during different periods and the "Maratonallsvenskan" (12 teams played 33 games when the seasnal structure shifted). Boeing720 (talk) 07:40, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not really sure what you mean with your first part, that this article should mainly deal with Allsvenskan. It already does? Focus is already on Allsvenskan, not on Swedish championships, playoffs or Svenska Serien. – Elisson • T • C • 12:11, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: It was mainly the issue of "Swidish champions" I thought of, during the first years. There was no Swedish Champions at all after Allsvenskan began, except for the very first year when Brynäs was awarded the chmpionchip, dispite not participating in Allsvenskan. Boeing720 (talk) 05:13, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Allsvenskan is about Allsvenskan (not Swedish Champions) 

message: As British football was closed from the second year of World War I, and only 3 rounds were played in the 1939/40 season and a new war time intermission followed. Portuguese league didn't began until in 1934. Current Swiss league began at the same time. In Spain the league began in the 1920's , but here an intermission stopped all football during the civil war 1936-39. And all other possible leagues in Europe was affected by the second world war, eighter though the war itself or due to occupation or the liberation process. In Germany there was no national league until Bundesliga began in the early 1960's. The same applies to other Scandinavian countries aswell. Thg Italian league, (which also began in the 1920's) had to have stopped, at the very latest 1943, when the front divided the country. Duthch and Belgian leagues may have continued during the first years of occupation, but intermissions must have occurred during atleast 1944-45. So where do we find a league that has been held without intermissions during a time of soon 90 years. Whithin Europe I connot find any league that has been played almost during a sequence of 90 years.In Latinamerica f.i. Brazil has mostly used regional leagues. In Argentina thought, it appears as a longer sequence exist. (amateur league until the mid 1930's - but that is surely true also for Allsvenskan). But I strongly suggest that a phrase like "Allsvenskan has runned without any intermission for 90 years, longer than any other European league" is put back in the text. Boeing720 (talk) 05:47, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Find a source, then write it. — Swedishpenguin | Talk 09:50, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  90 years without any intermission, not importaint ? 

message: Since it yesterday was revealed that Swedish Wikipedia had been changed by politicians, journalists, civil servants etc, I just want to tell Aftonbladet-connected people not make any edits related to (or from) that tabloid! None mentioned, none forgotten. (Swedish expression) Boeing720 (talk) 00:11, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Working at Aftonbladet ?  

message: I find such allegations to be of very serious kind, and shouldn't be mentioned without good reasons and better source(s) than what the Aftonbladet reference is. I do though agree that the von Rosen section of the Trophy section became far too long. I hope my new much shorter version can be accepted. I've changed speculative "nazi symphtiser" (it's speculative already in Aftonbladet) to a very brief explination of why the trophy was substitued. To this I would like to add that during WW1, many upper class Swedes sympathised with the Central Powers and Germany. And also after the war, the Swedish-German connections remained strong. Berlin was a very common and popular destination for Swedes that could afford such a travel and holiday. The daily train between Malmö and Berlin (trough the train ferry line Trelleborg - Saßnitz) made Berlin easily available. (Also in 1933-39) Many pupils were taught the German language in schools. (very few spoke English in those days) When Hitler came to power few Swedes knew much about nazism and far less how history would develope. And of those who knew a bit more of nazism, they oftenly regarded it as a guarantor towards the very feared Bolsjevism. (Atleast in the "upper classes") And some remained pro-German without any deeper knowledge of Nazism. My grandmother (mother's mother) who was married to a local manager of Handelsbanken in Landskrona were always very keen to talk about these issues. Their wedding trip went to Berlin in 1932, and they visited Berlin also after 1933. They noted marching men of "various kind" and once met a man with the Jew-star on a bus, that appeared to be very frightened, she told me. My grandfather gradualy realised that Hitler was a danger. But my grandmother's sister's man was fond of Hitler for a long time. But nobody knew anything about the Holocaust until very late in the war. To be regarded as "nazi symphathiser" a little more is needed, I think (like a membership of the Swedish nazi party, pro-nazi speeches, or atleast as my grandmother's sister's husband was, etc). But we do not know much of Clarence von Rosen's political ideas. So I find it inappropriate to use a phrase that states "von Rosen as a nazi symphtiser" based only on Aftonbladet. Hence my long "defence" of von Rosen. 
:.
I was also completely wrong about the shape of the old trophy. Boeing720 (talk) 20:44, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  About nazi symphatiser accusations 

message: Just a note: , you wrote "To win the Swedish Championchip before 1931 was mostly not even possible for f.i. Scanian clubs." in an edit summary even though you did not include anything about it in the edit. Which is good, because your edit summary is just not true. In 1905 six clubs from Scania participated, in 1906 one club, and from 1908 to 1923 (after which the big clubs stopped participating), Scania was always represented by at least one club. Helsingborg even have been runners-up twice in the tournament. – Elisson • T • C • 10:17, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: any source for this ? Boeing720 (talk) 22:25, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well, there are sources given in the linked articles for 1905 and 1906. And the same sources for the rest of the years. – Elisson • T • C • 23:55, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scanian clubs in "Svenska Mästerskapet" 

message: I think issues like when the "two in front" offside rule first was used in Allsvenskan, aswell as when the Red and Yellow cards were first used, are of importance. I wrote what I could find only. The cards was invented by an English referee (as he stopped his car at some traffic lights) and was first introduced in the 1970 World Cup. I cannot find if they came in use during the 1970 season or a little later. Even more difficult is to find out when the (almost) current offside rule came to Sweden. Previously English FA (who made their rules, and others followed them; from FIFA's introduction of the World Cup in 1930 until after the second World War one could say "two slightly different sets of rules could appear simultaniously". What's clear about the modern offside rule, is that FA introduced it in 1925/26. I have not been able to find out when FIFA adapted the new offside rule or when they became in use within Allsvenskan. Is it speculation to say "it's unclear" ? We do now for certain "two in front" (since the early 90's "one in line [defender] + one in front [the goal keeper]") came in use eventually, but it couldn't possibly been already from scratch. And I recall something about "Hälsingborgssystemet" as it got labeled, HIF was the first club to learn how to use the new offside rule to their benefit. Offside_(association_football)#History states 
:"Finally, Sheffield came into line with the F.A., and "three opponents" became the rule until 1925. The change to the "two opponents" rule led to an immediate increase in goal-scoring. 4,700 goals were scored in 1,848 Football League games in 1924–25. This number rose to 6,373 goals (from the same number of games) in 1925–26." 
The offside rule is really what makes the game to "flow" all over the pitch, without it football wouldn't be as we know it today, dispite of occational disappointments over cancelled goals. The reason I wrote the uncertainties, was in the hope of help. I've mailed SvFF nine questions about the exact time rule changes came into use in Allsvenskan, but am not at all certain if they care to answer. (by the way, I think FIFA should clearify the directives to the linesmen, to only pull the flag if he/she is absolutely certain - in doubtful cases the linesmen should give benefit for the attacking team. Around half a second or one feet (30 cm) "in front" could pass, without changing the essence of the play, I think) Is it really only I that am interested in such (historical) matters ? Boeing720 (talk) 01:22, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem is that you add things that do not really contribute anything to the article. On the contrary, it is not unclear at all when the two rules were changed. I've read the exact seasons for it in a book not very long ago (I just don't have the time or will to look it up again at the moment). But saying that it is unclear in the article is actually untrue. – Elisson • T • C • 21:03, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Of cource You are right - if someone knows - then it isn't unclear, but I couldn't know that. There is no hurry , but I hope we can establish the exact times for all essential rule changes by time. I think they are within the scope of this article Boeing720 (talk) 21:46, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unclear things speculative ? 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20141006100408/http://www.allsvenskan.se/allsvenskans-stora-pris-2013/ to http://www.allsvenskan.se/allsvenskans-stora-pris-2013/
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Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 01:03, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I have transferred Medal table to MS Excel and have columns summed. Result:
1st (gold) 96, 2nd (big silver) 95, 3rd (small silver) 97, 4th (bronze) 96
It seems to be mistake there. Nadsenec2 (talk) 13:35, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Medal table