Talk:Joseph Petzval

message: * Hungarian name: Petzval József or sometimes Petzvál József.
* Hist first 20 years is described in hungarian at http://www.kfki.hu/fszemle/archivum/fsz9501/konk9501.html (basically until he left for Pest).
* Rough bio: http://www.mek.iif.hu/porta/szint/egyeb/lexikon/eletrajz/html/
--grin ✎ 18:38, 2004 Jul 27 (UTC)
:de:User:Juro has done a fine job of extending the bio in german (:de:Josef Maximilian Petzval), using sources above and sources in Slovak. I plan to do the translation to en, but it will take some time. If anybody is interested in starting the translation, don't hesitate. Pjacobi 09:09, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Why is this Slovak and Slovak and again Slovak? He wasn't born in Slovakia, he wasn't Slovakian citizen and he wasn't even German. He clearly defined himself as ethnically Hugarian. Though his family had German origins(and not Slovakian..). Or if the current slovakian pals don't agree that there was Hungarian Kingdom in that time look at Petzval as a part of the Hungarian minority:) in Slovakia, the end is the same: he was Hungarian. There are clear evidences near his ethnic origin, and there are mentions, critical comments before mine but i've seen no response for those. So when there will be responses, we can continue the discussion.
Basically you are rigth. According to origin he was probably of moravian origin (Pecival) on his fathers side and zipser-german (partially magyarized) on his mothers side. He considered himself hungarian and that was his own choice and must matter, at least somehow. Probably he had mixed magyar-german-slav origins. That is the rule with hungarians. Hungarians are mixed people. Petöfi was also of mixed origins: slovak-serb-german-magyar. Even Liszt seems to have been mixed magyar-german-slav. Zrinyi was mixed croat-magyar (and some german, italian etc). Most hungarians are not clear about  this themselves. . What about non-hungarians then! Not to mention individuals who are anti-hungarian in sentiment and tries to de-hungarize everything hungarian. It is a kind of strange schizofrenoid ethno-racism.
László of Stockholm (a mixed but not totally mixed-up hungarian person)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.177.141.80 (talk) 22:09, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Slovak extremist definition? 

message: This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hungary, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Hungary. Which virtually means that Hungarians deliberately work on stealing other nation's history and famous people in order to satisfy their natural instinct of dominance no matter how this affects anybody unhappy enough to stay in their way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nton (talk • contribs) 12:10, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Comment by Nton

message: I asked for references about his ethnicity. Even Petzwal himself thought he was Hungarian but let's see if there is anything which underpins that he wasn't Hungarian. According to Kalló Péter his colleague, Petzval said about himself that he was the "devoted son of the Hungarian homeland".
Why is he consideed czech?? Father from Moravia NOT Bohemia. Mother zipser-german, ergo, hungarian-german! All Zipser-germans were to some degree magyarized. 
László of Stockholm  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.177.142.59 (talk) 18:35, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Petzval is not Hungarian? Why? 

message: LOL. You ppl are funny :-) Slovakians slovakize, Romanians romanianize everthing wich they can about old Hungary's history/culture/ppl, no matter how big lie is it.
Hungarians are tend to look at everthing and everybody as a Hungarian, who or who's parents/relatives spoke the language. :-) LOL
PETZVAL WAS CZECH-GERMAN, but more likely of German heritage. Petzval is not a slavic name. (Petzval is a germanized slavic name! Pecival! and his father had slavic names and was from Moravia, ergo not Bohemia and therefore not Czech! and without doubt not slovakian) Either his mother's: Kreutzmann. Szepes was that time absolute predominantly german inhabited. LOL, you creepy nationalists. :))) --91.120.92.221 10:23, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  German 

message: I'm a New Zealander and far removed from all of this "Hungarian, German, Slovac" rubbish. The main historical point, that seems to be lost in this argument, is that Petzval was not only brilliant, but RIPPED-OFF by history, which credits the German Seidel with the first invention of third order aberrations, and the Hungarian Buchdahl with the development of high-order aberration coefficients used for optical design. As can be seen in my upcoming paper (www.spie.org, search on papers by "Rakich" after August 2007) there exists sufficient proof in already publiushed work by Petzval and others that Petzval deserves credit for being the first to define third order aberration coefficients in terms of system constructional parameters, as well as high-orders of aberration. To my mind the Hungarians, Slovaks, Austrians and Germans can join the rest of the World in appreciating the brilliance of this individual, and their contributions to the environment that shaped him. Or you could have a war over it...
Regards, Andrew Rakich
(Karpaten1 (talk) 13:19, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why focus on where he came from? 

message: Wizzard, do you have any sources not written in slovak by slovak scholars which say he was slovak? According to reliable, english, third-party sources he was Hungarian of German origin: And please stop faking informations!<FONT COLOR="#151B8D"><FONT FACE="comic sans ms">B@xter</FONT></FONT> 9 10:47, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Baxter, I added neutral German sources about Slovak ethnicity. According to this his ancestors from father side were Moravians with name Peczival and no Germans: http://www.neue-zeitung.hu/dokumentumok/nzg_032008.pdf Moravian, who was Slovakized, now we are not able to say if he was speaking with czech or slovak as muther language because it was in usage "kraličtina", slovakized czech language in Slovak areas. His muther was of German origin. So you should to be neutral too. Some persons from Kingdom are ethnicaly mixed and they belongs to history of few nations and countries in present time. My reaction are nationalistic sometimes but I have reasons, coz people such Hobartimus and other Hungarians make sabotages. I dont agree with Slovak nationalism too. But look from Slovak side in example of Matej Bel: son of Mr "White" and Mrs "Garlic". Hungarian patriot, but not in ethnical sence - patriot to Hungarian Kingdom. He wrote in Latin, Hungarian, German and kraličtina. He was Slavic by language, of course he was Slovak, his family was in Slovak ethnic area, or was he russian or serb? I hope you understand why I do what I do. In the case of Petzval, its normal phenomene in western slavic nations (Slovak, Poles, Czechs, Moravians) that second (sometimes 3th) generation in ethnic area of different western slavic nation is assimilated (look censuses of Moravians in Czechia (1991, 2001), Slovaks in Czechia (1991, 2001), Slovaks in Poland, Poles in Slovakia, in Czechia and Czechs in Slovakia). --Samofi (talk) 01:48, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This sentence is "Hungarian[4][1][2][3]  mathematician, inventor, and physicist  of Slovak ethnicity [5][6][7]  and German origin" is mindless. His German ethnicity is weel referenced by reliable third-paryt English sources written by specialists of the issue. (Lance Day, Ian McNeil (1996). Biographical dictionary of the history of technology. Taylor & Francis. p. 554. , 9780415060424. Retrieved 2009.05.16., Eder, Josef Maria; Epstean, Edward; Cramer, Hinricus Lüppo (1945). History of photography. Columbia University Press. p. 761) Your sources are not reliable. (This one is a homemade "scientific work" as the other one too, while your last one is an interpretation abouth Ludwig Boltzmann.--B@xter9 12:32, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, Baxter, but you first accuse other editors of faking sources and dispute the sources by Slovak authors, the, when neutral sources are found, you censor the information further. The last source is an academic one and explicitly states that he was a Slovak, this merits inclusion of the information more than enough. Moreover, that he was Hungarian is not in conflict with his Slovak ethnicity - Hungarian by citizenship, German/Slovak by origin. Wladthemlat (talk) 14:41, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, Wladthemlat, but you first accuse other editors of faking sources and dispute the sources by Hungarian authors, the, when neutral sources are found, you censor the information further. Pleas read reliable sources policy. Although "the last source is an academic one and explicitly states that he was a Slovak," it did not fit into wikipedia's reliable source policy, since the author is not regarded as authoritative in relation to the subject in question (or if i find a source, in which a person with academic degree in nuclear phisics states that Mozart was a  Russin musican I can add it?) Furthermore, the issue of that work, Ludwig Boltzmann had nothing to do with optics, nor with Petzval. His name and ethnicity is just mentioned. Morevore, with your revert you re-added several unreliable homemade "sources", which was enough stupid step, dont you think?--B@xter9 15:04, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

text: i have next english source: http://books.google.com/books?id=0yDrAAAAMAAJ&q=petzval+slovak&dq=petzval+slovak&lr=&hl=sk&cd=61 and I have found few dozens of slovaks sources, dozen of czech sources and lot of german sources whose say, that he was slovak.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.128.181.9 (talk) 14:44, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Samofi, I should not respond to your comments, since you proved that you are a disruptive user and/or you are blocked from editing but let me tell you that it was Petzval who asserted that his parents were Germans. This is the only thing which counts. ("Petzval himself who, emphasizing the fact that he was the son of German parents")--B@xter9 17:20, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Where's that quote from? Wladthemlat (talk) 17:47, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It is from the second source which supports his German ethnicity (). Furthermore I also have "dozens of German and Hungarian" sources (like:  which support his German origin, but since this is the English wikipedia I added only the neutral English ones.--B@xter9 17:53, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: [[User:Wizzard]]'s edits

message: Information courtesy of The MacTutor History of Mathematics archive University of St Andrews, Scotland Department of Mathematics and Statistics : John J O'Connor and Edmund F Robertson 
 October 2012 (UTC)
Their entry: 
Józeph Miksa Petzval
Born: 6 Jan 1807 in Spisska Bela, Hungary (now in Slovakia)
Died: 17 Sept 1891 in Vienna, Austria
There are different versions of Józeph Petzval's name, and, in addition to the one given here, he is often known as Jozef Maximilian Petzval. While giving different versions, let us also remark that the town of his birth is Spisska Bela which is sometimes written as Szepesbéla. It was in Hungary when Petzval was born there but it is now in Slovakia." RPSM (talk) 11:22, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Petzval was born in Spisska Bela [[Szepesbéla]], Hungary. It is now in Slovakia 

message: I find the current sentence including: " Hungarian[1][2][3][4] / Slovak[5][6][page needed] " quite detrimental to the readability of the introduction. Since it seems to be such a complicated issuse it should not be discussed in the introduction. Better leave it out completely. Instead we could have an extra paragraph named for example "Ethnicity", which would go like something along the lines of: "While Petzval's ethnic origin is a matter of dispute between Hungarian [sources], Slovak [sources], ... add whatever others you like to name  ... and German [sources], he considered himself to be a Hungarian of German descent. [Source as cited above: Josef Maria Eder: "Geschichte der Photographie"]" What dou you think? --BjKa (talk) 15:31, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Björn, I fully agree with you, the introduction is indeed confusing, and your proposed solution is fine with me. If you have time, please, go ahead with the modifications. Cheers, KœrteFa {ταλκ} 16:43, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  How about keeping the ethnicity issue out of the introduction? 

message: Did a quick cleanup. What seems to be a minor point (Ethnicity and name) should not be the first section, it should be a footnote. Also an argument amongst editors is not necessarily a verifiable argument. "Pecival ... means: lazy"???? Source?  Rm remainder of section (including apparent tit for tat ethnicity warring) here to talk. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 15:20, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rm (editor argument?) and general cleanup 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Joseph Petzval. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080920092551/http://www.webenetics.com/hungary/sciencemathandtech2.htm to http://www.webenetics.com/hungary/sciencemathandtech2.htm
*Added  tag to http://www.info.omikk.bme.hu/Archivum/magyarok/htm/petzvaljozsefrov.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050408014140/http://www.opakfi.mtesz.hu/alapszabaly/fugg1.html to http://www.opakfi.mtesz.hu/alapszabaly/fugg1.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050403231049/http://www.opakfi.mtesz.hu/dijak/petzval.htm to http://www.opakfi.mtesz.hu/dijak/petzval.htm
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 18:04, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Joseph Petzval. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110721112204/http://www.neue-zeitung.hu/dokumentumok/nzg_032008.pdf to http://www.neue-zeitung.hu/dokumentumok/nzg_032008.pdf
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 11:35, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified