Talk:José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero/Archive 2

message: "José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero (born 4 August 1960) is the President of Spain."
*President of Spain? Spain is a constitutional monarchy. It should be "Prime Minister". - Mike Rosoft 09:26, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: President of Spain

message: First, I want to thank Katefan0 for the interest he has placed in this article and in trying to solve the problem going on here for too long. To help solve it, I will expose my point of view about the subject. I am going to divide my exposition in the following points:
* General statement about what my intentions in the Wikipedia have been.
* My point of view about the supposed complains against the article: spelling, neutrality and general use of the English language.
* My opinion about SqueakBox behavior.
=== General statement about my intentions in the Wikipedia === 
First of all, I want to make clear that my only intention in the Wikipedia has been to increase the available knowledge about the current Spanish political situation. I have always tried to provide facts and, whenever it has been possible, I have cited sources supporting those edits I considered facts. As a logical consequence, whenever a user has removed something I considered a fact I have tried to recover it and to convince the user about the convenience of preserving what he has deleted (or to let him convince me he was right). 
To provide a little evidence about this, I would include this link to the version of the article I consider that best summarizes what my activity here has been, as I provided most of the information there. It can be observed that almost every paragraph includes a reference. 
To illustrate what I believe that has been my typical behavior when dealing with a user who had removed something I consider that should be preserved I include the following link. I posted that message in the talk page when a user removed the information about Zapatero’s supposed belonging to Freemasonry, a "rumor" stronger everyday in Spain.   
=== My point of view about the controversial points of this article ===
I want to make clear that the confrontation here only involves SqueakBox and me, as there seems not to be other users actively interested in this article. So, by now, the strong complains against the article has been expressed by SqueakBox and nobody else. 
==== Spelling issues ====
SqueakBox first edited the article on May 2, 2005. At that time, the article has been written using American spelling for almost two months (for example, this version of March 7, 2005 used only “American” words). It has included American words since the edit by Merovingian of March 15, 2004, when he included the term ‘organization’. At the time, the article was still a stub made of five paragraphs and 320 words that included two words spelled the British way: ‘modernising’ and ‘organisation’ (that is, the article included both forms organization and organization). As can be checked using the history page, from that day, and more or less until March 2005, the use of American words increased in the article until it finally became completely American. 
Although SqueakBox found an article that used American spelling consistently, he changed the spelling of some words to British claiming that “EU articles should not be written in American”.
Other users did not accept that and the article continued to use American spelling (for example, take a look at this version of the article by Pbhayani of July 7, 2005). 
On October 26, 2005, SqueakBox decided again to ask the spelling to be changed arguing that all articles about Spanish politicians are written in British English (something false, for example, the article about Aznar uses American spelling).
A request for comments was submitted whose results can be found in the file 2 of the archived talk. 
JamesMLan contributed the following rules from the Manual of Style:
* Articles that focus on a topic specific to a particular English-speaking country should generally conform to the spelling of that country.
*If an article is predominantly written in one type of English, aim to conform to that type rather than provoking conflict by changing to another.
*If all else fails, consider following the spelling style preferred by the first major contributor (that is, not a stub) to the article.
As I reasoned in the talk page, I believe this rules imply that the article must use American spelling because:
* The article does not focus in a topic specific to a particular English-speaking country.
* The article was predominantly written in American English before SqueakBox decided to change it to British English. (And he is the only user who wants to change it).
* As I have said, the mix of spellings started when the article was still a stub. The major contributors to this article have been Pbhayani, Miguel and me (Zapatancas). All of us have used American spelling. 
This reasoning, a little more elaborate, was posted by me on the talk page (Talk:José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero/Archive 2#Following_the_Manual_of Style). I expressed that, in my opinion, that closed the discussion. I received no answer from SqueakBox.
After that, however, SqueakBox has insisted on using British words, even though he seems unable not to mix spellings. In the article currently blocked (authored by him) there can be found the following British words: 'organised', 'legalised', 'normalise', 'criticised', 'organisers', 'unfavourable', 'rumours', 'honouring', 'legalising', 'travelled'. And the following American ones: 'minimize', 'criticized', 'organized', 'favor', 'favorable', 'traveled'.
==== Neutrality ====
Squeak Box has repeatedly accused me of being a POV warrior and the article of being NPOV. However, he has never reported a single non-neutral passage in the talk page. 
On May 20, 2005, he introduced for the first time a NPOV tag. I asked him what passages of the article he believed to be not neutral. As it can be found in Talk:José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero/Archive 1#NPOV, he provided no positive answer. Therefore, I change the NPOV tag to its long form, which asks all the users accessing the article to report disputed passages.
Nobody reported anything. That prompted me to post a NPOV ultimatum in the talk page on July 6, 2005. After one month and two weeks, no disputed passage had been reported and I said that if in another week nothing was it was clear that the NPOV tag made no sense. Finally, Pbhayani removed the tag. As I have said, nobody had reported anything. 
Recently, on November 16, 2005, he included the NPOV tag again. He did not report any single passage in the talk page. He has not done yet. 
However, he has removed the following passages justifying in the edit summaries that they are not neutral:
* "The opposition People's Party considered the decision [of accepting the participation of Gibraltar as a partner in the discussions about its future] a surrender of Spanish rights over the colony, but Zapatero justified it as a new way to solve a 300 hundred years old problem." That paragraph expresses the views of the People Party and of Zapatero about a decision by the Socialist Government. Both points of view are treated as point of views (that is, not like proven facts or universally accepted stances) and they are treated fairly. Why is the paragraph NPOV? 
* "It is believed that Zapatero is a Freemason. Among the major proponents of that theory is Ricardo de la Cierva, a prominent, right-wing Spanish historian." SqueakBox justifies the removal of the passage because it is "speculation about freemasonry". The passage is exactly saying that it is believed Zapatero is a Freemason. That is, the passage does not say Zapatero is a Freemason. So, the passage to be POV should be either false (that is, nobody believes Zapatero is a Freemason) or the number of people believing should be negligible. Ricardo de la Cierva is sure Zapatero is a Freemason so there are people who believe it (that is, the passage is not false). The number of people who believe is not negligible either. Things like "Zapatero masón" (Zapatero is a Freemason) can be found in street graffiti, in political posters, in banners in the demonstrations against the government, in the programs of radio stations opposed to the Government or in TV programs. If the keywords "Zapatero+masón" are searched in Google, the search engine provides 14,100 links if only the results in Spanish are returned. Thus, I believe that "Zapatero is believed to be a Freemason" is an objective fact and, because of the very definition of non-neutrality, it cannot be POV. 
* "As a student, he [Zapatero] admired the agrarian reforms of Mao Tse-tung as well as those in the Soviet Union." SqueakBox claims this is communist POV. In the version of the article of May 13, 2005, that passage also appeared with a cite pointing to the page 71 of the book "Zapatero. Presidente a la Primera" by Óscar Campillo Madrigal (probably the biography about Zapatero most sold to date). So, or SqueakBox has evidence proving that biography is inaccurate or I believe that passage cannot be removed alleging it is POV. 
I want to emphasize that SqueakBox has never reported any single disputed passage in the talk page so it could be discussed effectively in order to make a better article. The passages I have just mentioned were deleted by him alleging POV only in the edit summary, after removing them.  And I do not believe any complain against them could not have been solved better bringing them to the talk page.
==== Use of the English language ====
I have never hidden I am from Spain. I have no problem recognizing my English is far from perfect and, consequently, I have never complaint if somebody has corrected any of my mistakes.
SqueakBox posted on July 14, 2005 this: "BTW Well done Pbhayani for an excellent job. When I tried to clean up Zapatancas' English he reverted me so it is great sopmeone else has done both that and removed the POV, SqueakBox 17:30, July 14, 2005 (UTC)" ([Talk:José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero/Archive 1# NPOV ultimatum]). He claims I revert the article to unintelligible English (he did yesterday, November 24, 2005, in the Administrators' noticeboard).  He also claims that I revert to "Spanish English", as can be seen  (here). 
The truth is that dozens of users have taken part in the improvement of the article. Some of them were Spanish speakers but a lot of them were English native speakers. Especially, Pbhayani, who was an English speaker, worked very hard in the article. The result of his work can be found in his version of July 7, 2005. As it can be observed, the structure and content of the current article and that version are extremely similar, as few variations have taken place since then. As it has been said, SqueakBox define Pbhayani's work as superb.
SqueakBox has provided some examples as proofs of the "terribly bad" English (he calls it Spanish English) of the article:
* "[…] it discriminated citizens for its sex". That passage was first introduced on the version of March 7, 2005. Nobody corrected it until November 24, 2005, including SqueakBox himself. So, if it is a mistake so terrible (and not a simple slip of the tongue easy to fix), why nobody, including all the English speaking editors of the article, has been able to fix it for eight months?
* SqueakBox has also criticized the incorrect use of capitals.  He claims that the header “Personal Life and Youth” introduced by the first time in the version of November 16, 2005 from the IP address 140.247.42.158, located in Massachusetts (USA), is an example  of  Spanish English because only the first word of a header is capitalized according to the Wikipedia style. That was the style the article has used for months and it was used before SqueakBox arrived in May. Since November 23, SqueakBox removes almost every capital he finds in a header, introducing mistakes as he does not understand that common nouns are capitalized in English when they behave like proper nouns. For example, he changes European Union to European union or ‘Spanish Civil War’ to ‘Spanish civil car’ (that is, he has several times written car and not war). The very Wikipedia articles can be used to learn that European Union is written capitalized (it is the name of political institution) and that Spanish Civil War must be also capitalized (it is the name of a war). 
=== SqueakBox behavior ===
First of all, I want to make clear that I am trying to express my opinion. I do not try to offend anybody with this section. 
My opinion about SqueakBox is that he acts in bad faith. He is from Britain, but he claims to live in Honduras, far from his family and, probably, alone; perhaps because his family and he are not in good terms. I believe that he does not like his life and that makes him feel bitter against the world. As so many people in the "real world", I think he wants to forget his internal pain making others feel miserable. 
In my opinion, the following facts prove this:
* When he first come to this article, it was divided into several parts because it had become very long. There exist the main article on Zapatero, and others like "Zapatero’s foreign policy", "Zapatero’s domestic policy" and so on. He substituted those articles with redirects to the main article and, although he moved some of the data in the extended articles, an important part of it was lost. He did not ask the opinion of those who had invested their effort into creating those articles. He has never explained why he did not ask those articles to be deleted if he believed them so useless. (In fact, they can be still accessed.)
* He has accused me of using the sock puppets SqueakingPig and SqueakingPigAttacksAgain that have vandalized his user page. That is false, he has no evidence and I have never been blocked and I have told him so thousands of times.  He do not care about that, of course, because he has said I must prove my innocence (I believe it is others who would have to prove I am guilty, that is what happens in democracies, at least).
* He posted this in May referring to me: “His vicious personal attack has been removed. I expect an immediate apology. If he replaces it or writes something equally nasty he will be repeorted, I am not far from trying an Rfc. His right wing views, which are found in all his encyclopedic writings, are very clear from his latest edits. Wikipedia is not a place to launch a passionate defence of the PP and an attack on Zapatero. Zapatancas appears to be a POV warrior trying to manipulate wikipedia for his own political ends. There is absolutely no nedd for excess articles, and particularly not excessa articles that Zapatancas won't let anyone else edit, --SqueakBox 14:19, May 12, 2005 (UTC)”. As I have said, I only want to provide information. I have never prevented other users from editing nothing. If I have changed other editor’s contribution, I have tried to explain my decision respecting his/her effort.  
* This post is also full of false accusations: “This article is hopelessly biased against Zapatero (my opinion is by Spaniards more patriotic to the USA than their ownm country and region). When I changed it I got loads of persoanl attacks, and am uninclined to reedit until the atmosphere of intimidation here improves. Don't remove the NPOV unless you can answer my objections, --SqueakBox 15:46, May 20, 2005 (UTC)”.
* More insults: “Who sent you the message. There is a troll on this page. We know who he is, and his rule over this page is shortly to end. The artiucle is a pile of crap, but he uses sockpuppets and nasty insults to get his way. By all means change anything you like, with my full and energetic support. Ya basta, SqueakBox 15:48, Jun 17, 2005 (UTC)”
* More insults mixed with nonsense: “This article does not conform to wiki stanmdards, is full of original research, and has had the spelling changed to US English, so it needs both a cleanuop tag and an NPOV tag until thesde problems are thoroughly sorted. At present this article is a disgrace to wikipedia. SqueakBox 13:56, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Zapatancas' point of view 

message: First of all, I want to make clear that I am trying to express my opinion. I do not try to offend anybody with this section. 
My opinion about SqueakBox is that he acts in bad faith. He is from Britain, but he claims to live in Honduras, far from his family and, probably, alone; perhaps because his family and he are not in good terms. I believe that he does not like his life and that makes him feel bitter against the world. As so many people in the "real world", I think he wants to forget his internal pain making others feel miserable. 
In my opinion, the following facts prove this:
* When he first come to this article, it was divided into several parts because it had become very long. There exist the main article on Zapatero, and others like "Zapatero’s foreign policy", "Zapatero’s domestic policy" and so on. He substituted those articles with redirects to the main article and, although he moved some of the data in the extended articles, an important part of it was lost. He did not ask the opinion of those who had invested their effort into creating those articles. He has never explained why he did not ask those articles to be deleted if he believed them so useless. (In fact, they can be still accessed.)
* He has accused me of using the sock puppets SqueakingPig and SqueakingPigAttacksAgain that have vandalized his user page. That is false, he has no evidence and I have never been blocked and I have told him so thousands of times.  He do not care about that, of course, because he has said I must prove my innocence (I believe it is others who would have to prove I am guilty, that is what happens in democracies, at least).
* He posted this in May referring to me: “His vicious personal attack has been removed. I expect an immediate apology. If he replaces it or writes something equally nasty he will be repeorted, I am not far from trying an Rfc. His right wing views, which are found in all his encyclopedic writings, are very clear from his latest edits. Wikipedia is not a place to launch a passionate defence of the PP and an attack on Zapatero. Zapatancas appears to be a POV warrior trying to manipulate wikipedia for his own political ends. There is absolutely no nedd for excess articles, and particularly not excessa articles that Zapatancas won't let anyone else edit, --SqueakBox 14:19, May 12, 2005 (UTC)”. As I have said, I only want to provide information. I have never prevented other users from editing nothing. If I have changed other editor’s contribution, I have tried to explain my decision respecting his/her effort.  
* This post is also full of false accusations: “This article is hopelessly biased against Zapatero (my opinion is by Spaniards more patriotic to the USA than their ownm country and region). When I changed it I got loads of persoanl attacks, and am uninclined to reedit until the atmosphere of intimidation here improves. Don't remove the NPOV unless you can answer my objections, --SqueakBox 15:46, May 20, 2005 (UTC)”.
* More insults: “Who sent you the message. There is a troll on this page. We know who he is, and his rule over this page is shortly to end. The artiucle is a pile of crap, but he uses sockpuppets and nasty insults to get his way. By all means change anything you like, with my full and energetic support. Ya basta, SqueakBox 15:48, Jun 17, 2005 (UTC)”
* More insults mixed with nonsense: “This article does not conform to wiki stanmdards, is full of original research, and has had the spelling changed to US English, so it needs both a cleanuop tag and an NPOV tag until thesde problems are thoroughly sorted. At present this article is a disgrace to wikipedia. SqueakBox 13:56, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  SqueakBox behavior 

message: To finish, I only have to say that my only aim when I decided to become part of the Wikipedia community was to share my knowledge with others. That is why I have edited the article about Zapatero. As I am Spanish, even though I do not master English, I could contribute knowledge very difficult to find for English speaking people. 
I have invested a lot of effort trying to write a good article and trying to preserve information that those who do not like plurality would prefer to remove. 
I honestly believe that SqueakBox has acted in bad faith, that his main aim has been to harass other users (in this case, me), that he has never contributed anything useful to this article and that this article could be one of the best in the Wikipedia if it had not suffered his activities.
For all this, I ask SqueakBox to change his behavior and, if he does not, I ask the Wikipedia community to help stop why I consider to be a damaging, unjustifiable attitude. Zapatancas 13:22, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conclusion 

message: You forsook the right to ask for anything when you opened SquealingPig and SquealingPigAttacksAgain. Unmless you profuselhy apologise I will not co-operate with you in any way or read what you have to say. You have to take consequences for your past actions. I have never acted in bad faith but you clearly have. I am extremely angry at your deviant behaviour and ask you either to apologise or withdraw from this discussion. On the other hand you're threat to erase me if I continue working at wikipedia I meet with the deepest contempt. I have no intention of stopping working here due to Zapatancas' death threats. He has no right to demand anything with his death thereats, which he must withdraw and apologise for if we are to move on. He is far and away the worst and most deviant editor I have come acroiss in over a year of editing, and I for one will not back down to his death threeats. The day wikipedia gives way to it's bullies is the day it goes down the tube. I will continue to defend wikipedia from scum like SquealingPig, and will continue to edit this article to make it better, and will converse with anyone other than Zapatancas about this article or about what to do with deviuant users who create sockpuppets like SquealingPig AttacksAgain. Zapattancas lying accusation that I was behind the attacks on my own page is a truly demented idea from the person really responsible. Giving way in any poinmt to Zapatancas would be like giving way to terrorism. He should have thought about wanting a say in this article before starting to edit as SquealingPig. Now is too late, SqueakBox 13:58, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Zapatancas and his death threats and why I won't have anything to do with the death threat troll

message: Is the only solution. I am willing to go through mediation on the condition that a developer checks the edits of SquealingPig and SquiealingPigAttacksAgain and see if they are located from the same place as those of Zapatancas. That way if I am wrong I apologise and if he is wrong he does, SqueakBox 14:51, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Mediation

message: It is very important that all these get fixed, and that editors don't start deliberately editing direct links and making them into redirects as one editor was doing yesterday. Such behaviour is in direct contradiction of wikipedia policy, and could be used as evidence of one editor stalking another, ie the stalker deliberately undoes the fixed redirects of the stalked, reverting them back to redirects. Stalking is something the arbcom have recently condemned, SqueakBox 14:58, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: What redirects are you talking about? Zapatancas 09:27, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Redirects

message: I've unprotected; it's been protected several days.  Please, everybody, try to talk constructively and don't edit war.  Comment on content, not contributors, even those you have a history with. Thanks. · Katefan0(scribble)/mrp 20:22, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unprotected 

message: I have removed the POV check tag because nobody has provided any information about any controversial passage. I myself asked Mike Rosoft (the user who added it if I am not wrong) what he believed that could be not neutral but he has not answered me although he has accessed the Wikipedia in the past days. The discussion about the supposed POV has been constant for almost a year. But if the supposed complaints about POV are analyzed the conclusion is that most of them come from the user SqueakBox and that his real goal was to attack, insult and harass those users who have taken part honestly in the improvement of this article. This has become evident in the last month, when he did not even try to justify his behavior after Katefan0 blocked the page so the "conflict" could be solved through dialog and not by edit wars. Zapatancas 14:54, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of POV check 

message: I'm going to change the part about Zapatero being believed to be a Freemason. I was frankly surprised to read that -- I had never before heard anything about that issue, although I live in Spain and follow Spanish politics quite closely.
User Zapatancas himself admits it to be a rumour, and not a very extended one in my experience. It is however very plausible that Zapatero might in fact be a Freemason, given his family antecedents. Many of his ideas are also coherent with Freemason ideology. But the text gives the impression (in my opinion at least) that it is a widely held idea.
I think the following text is more representative of reality:
Ricardo de la Cierva, a prominent right-wing Spanish historian, among others, believe that Rodríguez Zapatero is himself a Freemason.
If no one objects I will make the change shortly.
bml 16:22, 2 January 2006 (GMT)
:I don't object your decision and I even like it :-). In any case, I would like to note that relations between the Spanish Catholic Church and Spanish Freemasonry had been really bad historically (well, they have killed each other sometimes) so, even if it is false that Zapatero is a Freemason, the fact that an important social player in Spain like the Catholic church believes it can have an important influence on the Spanish political life. In my opinion, perhaps the reason why the radio station COPE, owned by the church, is being so active against the Socialist Government could be related to that situation. Zapatancas 17:01, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Freemasonry 

message: I must tell that the passage about Zapatero's declarations regarding the sucide bombers can be considered the pure truth. So please, don't delete them. I provided long ago this reference. I know that Libertad Digital is very right-wing, but in this case they are reporting the truth. It was also reported by other media, the problem is that not all of them have their old articles available on the Internet. 
That passage had already been discussed here. The discussion can be found in the second file of the archived talk. In any case, if anybody has any doubt after examining the offered data I am open to discussing anything. Zapatancas 16:34, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suicide bombers 

message: I have added some extra information in the Politics with EU and Latinamerica.
I think (and have also changed it) that info about Poland should be included in the EU section (as Poland is a member of EU) 
Mabuimo 20:03, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Minor changes

message: Zapatancas made this edit , implying that this is his/her article and that if I attempt to edit it I am harrassing Zapatancas, apparently I can be blocked merely for editing this article. I urge him/her to read the bit that says If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed by others, do not submit it, and as I want to edit but am not allowed to I am instead sticking the cleanup and NPOV tags on the article until it can be cleaned up and made NPOV, SqueakBox 16:06, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Zapatancas new harrassment

message: Have cleaned the article up, removing bad speling, incorrect names and titles, anti-ETA and anti-UK POV and the use of the word terrorism, and so have removed the tags, SqueakBox 22:01, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Clean-up

message: SqueakBox has mixed spellings again. An RfC was conducted to solve the problem peacefully. He has decided not to respect its result. He has claimed in the past (here) to respect the American Spelling, that is, the spelling that has ensured a consistently written article for more than a year. His actions only intend to harass a user, me. Zapatancas 14:14, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blatant vandalism 

message: Repeated use of the weasel word terrorism is actually discouraged at wikipedia so it isn't okay just on this article. Besides using the word terrorism half a dozen times in relation to ETA is blatant POV, which again has no place in this article, SqueakBox 23:37, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: ETA

message: Devious argument used to justify SqueakBox's vandalism. 
There is a difference between treating all points of view fairly (even Al Qaeda's) and inventing things. Nobody denies Spain is suffering from terrorism or that ETA is terrorist. Not even the very ETA. Why should it? It started killing in 1968, at that time Nelson Mandela justified the use of violence against the apartheid. They have been proud for years of using terrorism against the "cruel" Spanish government and they are not going to deny now what they have said for decades. 
SqueakBox has invented that ETA denies being terrorist to justify his harassment. Zapatancas 09:47, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Devious argument 

message: In English he is commonly called Zapatero. he is not known as Rodriguez Zapatero. Therefore we must call him Zapatero and not Rodriguez Zapatero every time we mention him, SqueakBox 23:36, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Common name usage

message: Devious argument used to justify SqueakBox's vandalism. 
User:Cantus changed it (here). If you had acted in good faith you would have discussed that with him. Show other users a little respect. Zapatancas 09:47, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Devious argument 1

message: Political parties like the PP and the PSOE are always shortened in subsequent references throughout wikipedia, therefore they need to be called that here as well, SqueakBox 23:36, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Common format

message: Devious argument used to justify SqueakBox's vandalism. 
The use of the terms Socialist Party and People's Party (or Popular Party) are very typical in the English press; where, in fact, the acronyms PSOE and PP are rarely used. Even in Spain the "extended" form is often used. Where is the problem in using typical expressions understood by everybody? SqueakBox tries to justify his vandalism and intimidate other users by preventing them from using valid expressions through brute force. Zapatancas 09:47, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Devious argument 2

message: It is not alright to capitalise words like Terrorism and Socialism in the middle of a sentence' it is plain bad English, SqueakBox 23:40, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Capital letters

message: I couldn't care less if 'socialist' is capitalized or not. But to claim that George Orwell's English was bad is another devious argument. Here it can be found the text of Homage to Catalonia, written by him, where the term socialist is always capitalized. Zapatancas 09:47, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Devious argument 3

message: Zapatancas, please debate your points here. Edit warring while refusing to engage in a ny talk page debate is not wikipedia procedure. I have made my argumenht. You are reverting me while refusing to engage in debate, behaviour not normally welcomed at wikipedia. If you want to ahve a case in your pursuit of me I suggest you engage here, SqueakBox 14:55, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Vandalism is always reverted. To be taken seriously the first rule is not to vandalize any article. Zapatancas 09:47, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Failure to debate

message: :Vandalism is always reverted. To be taken seriously the first rule is not to vandalize any article. Zapatancas 09:47, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Devious argument 4

message: Zapatancas has taken me to arbcom as an alternative to debating on this page. Se Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration#SqueakBox + Zapatancas. The fact that he has chosen that course of action rather than debate is very sad. he has also twice this week asked for the page to be protected in order to prevent me from editing the page. rather than cloudy the issue I urge him to engage in debate about any changes he wants to the article here rathjer than merely edoit war while doing his or her best to erase me from wikipedia. This is the same Zapatancas who has seen fit to vandalise my user page here, SqueakBox 22:01, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Arbcom

message: When an article is protected nobody can edit it, including me. 
SqueakBox has claimed one thousand times I am a troll. Why is he afraid of proving that before the ArbCom? Zapatancas 09:47, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Devious argument 5

message: Indeed, SqueakBox 13:19, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Zapatancas devious arguments

message: Zapatancas' conclusion that all my 5 arguments are devious and therefore he cann just revert every edit I make to this article is, IMO, a devious conclusion designed only to justify his reverts. Drop your hostility and personal attacks, read some wikipedia style guides (I have read the lot, have you?) and then come up with some workable compromise as reverting everything I do here is not a reasonable compromise and this issue can only be sorted out by reasonable compromise. His wanting the article protected and his insistence there that unless the article is protetcted or I allow him to fully revert all my edits he will just keep reverting all my edits indicates that he is still not ready to engage in rational and adult debate. Erasing me from wikipedia is not the solution Zapatancas, and your belief that it is the only solution is getting in the way of (estorbando) this article SqueakBox 15:00, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Conclusion

message: Zapatancas now claims the medal someone awarded me on my user page was a WP:NPA and his vandalism cleaning it up was necessary to protect wikipedia, SqueakBox 13:48, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: SqueakBox is insulting other users by calling them "rather strange". To remove personal attacks is not vandalism. It is to vandalized other user pages as you did here against my user page. Zapatancas 13:54, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Medal

message: Please source Zapatero was a Professor not a teacher. Profesor the Es word translates as teacher and I dont believe he was a Professor, ie this needs sourcing SqueakBox 14:52, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Read the definition by the Wiktionary. I cannot teach you your own language. Thank you for reading a couple of lines of an article, you are making progress. Now, you have to read the rest. Zapatancas 15:18, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Professor

message: Why is this article tagged as current? According to El Mundo and RTVE he isn't anywhere in the papers. I have thus removed the current template, SqueakBox 01:42, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course Zapatero is not a current event. The article is completely outdated for more than a year. Well, since you started your harassment to be exact. Zapatancas 15:18, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: current

message: Who put in Javier Solana is PP? He is PSOE. If you revert me Zapatancas please ensure that you don't continue propagating this which you know to be untrue. I also dont believe you can accuse me of sabotaging the article or editing purely to harrass you with this one, eh? SqueakBox 01:54, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I knew you did not read the articles. But it seems you do not even know what the article is about! Zapatancas 15:18, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Solana

message: The ZP article used to contain:
:ZP is a popular nickname of the Prime Minister of Spain José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero. Those two letters were included in the Socialist electoral posters used during the 2004 electoral campaign and are an acronym of the slogan 'Zapatero Presidente' ('Zapatero President').
which should probably be worked into this article somehow.  --Piet Delport 10:43, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Your death threat edit looks like it will come to pass eh? Just your watch your back very carefully for the rest of your life as you never know when the tap on the shoulder will be the police wanting to know why a PP activist is making death threats on wikipedia against someone who would not let him stitch up Zapatero. The El Pais will love it. Meanwhile you have to live with the fact that you have threatened someone to death, you have committed serious criminal offences in Honduras, etc, SqueakBox 16:26, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "ZP" nickname