Talk:Lydian mode

message: It strikes me that it might be worth mentioning the Lydian dominant theory of harmony i.e. that the harmonic overtones of C contain the #4 and b7 being F# and Bb respectively.  See: 
http://www.lydiandominant.com/theory/lydian-dominant_theory.html
[New post: previous post was not signed, so does not conclude clearly:] This belongs in an article on the Lydian Dominant or on synthetic scales, not one on the Lydian mode.  Despite the Lydian Dominant's name and partial resemblance to the Lydian mode, it is not a mode as usually understood in this context, and really has nothing to do with the modal scale system.  I think it is valid to mention the Lydian Dominant in a Lydian mode article as another scale that has points of resemblance to the Lydian mode; but I don't think it is valid to go into further detail there about the Lydian Dominant. M.J.E. 02:02, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lydian Dominant Theory 

message: Unless I'm mistaken, many of the fugues in The Art of Fugue are in C Lydian. I don't have a score, though, so I'm not certain. Does anyone know?Amphion 01:58, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Famous Songs

message: The study of interval dissonance says that the perfect 4th is consonant, but this article says it is dissonant. Any clarification?? Georgia guy 17:09, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A lot of "common practice" texts say a perfect fourth above the root of a chord is "dissonant", because it should resolve to a chord in root position, but an augmented fourth is definitely more dissonant, not less. I removed the offending sentence. —Keenan Pepper 20:37, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dissonant fourth 

message: Regarding this paragraph:
A scale sometimes regarded as related to the Lydian mode is sometimes called the Lydian Dominant Mode, the fourth mode of the melodic minor scale, and is contained within the natural overtones or harmonics produced by a single note.  If you play a single sustained low C on a piano you may be able to hear a few overtones.  In order from lowest to highest these tones are approximately C G C E G Bb C D E F# G A Bb B C (producing, in C major the I, V, I, III, V, bVII, I, II, III, #IV, V, VI, bVII, VII and I).  (The notes Bb and F# are slightly different in the overtone series from the notes we would hear in the equal-tempered tuning system in common use today.)  You may notice that F# and Bb are contained within the Lydian Dominant Mode (as the sharpened fourth and flattened seventh respectively). The overtone series is actually the manner in which brass instruments (among others) play different pitches.  The scale can just as easily be regarded as a relative of the Mixolydian mode as of the Lydian mode.  Despite the resemblances to both modes, it is in fact not at all a part of the modal system of harmony as usually regarded, but is instead an example of a synthetic scale.
I've moved most of this paragraph here because it seems misleading at best. The idea that Lydian Dominant "is contained within" the harmonic series, or even "approximates" it, seems wrong to me (there are several pages that describe the harmonic series, see Harmonic series (music), Harmonic, and Overtone). First, the notes of the harmonic series are an example of Just intonation -- in regular 12-tone Equal temperament only the octaves are the same. Some of the harmonics are approximated quite well in equal temperament, others not at all. The overtones are listed above as C G C E G Bb C D E F# G A Bb B C. Even with the word "approximate" in there, the 7th partial Bb is a stretch, being nearly a third of a semitone flatter than an equal tempered Bb (see Harmonic seventh#The Harmonic Seventh. The 11th harmonic is called an F# here, but elsewhere is usually called a Gb. Either way it is a quarter tone off, falling almost exactly in between F# and G.The lydian F# is much more logically 45:32 -- two justly-tuned perfect fifths plus a major third (eg, C G D F#), or simply three whole steps (see Tritone). Another problem is that the list says the harmonic series continues: F# G A Bb B C. But the A here, the 13th partial, 13:8, falls between Ab and A. It is 41-cent sharp Ab. From C is it far easier to make an A by going down a minor third than up to the 13th harmonic! (these intervals are listed at List of musical intervals)
In other words, I'm skeptical about a connection between Lydian Dominant and the Harmonic Series. The F# and Bb are key to this interpretation, and neither are well approximated in equal temperament. Also the comment about brass instruments seems misleading. Yes they make use of the overtones of the harmonic series, but they have valves and keys in order to play in equal temperament. It seems unlikely that you could even overblow to the 13th partial.
The final comment about the mixolydian mode seems more on the mark. Mathieu, in his book Harmonic Experience, uses the term "Mix/Lyd" for Lydian Dominant -- meaning the scale's first 4 notes are lydian and its second 4 notes to the octave are mixolydian.
Anyway, I tried to rewrite the paragraph but couldn't manage it, so am just moving it here with these comments. Pfly (talk) 22:54, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It was explained to me (LONG ago, and I can barely remember) that the term "lydian dominant" refers to the 2 "tetrachords" that make-up the scale (from tonic to octave). And my understanding of "tetrachord" was basically a run of 4 notes. The intervals between these notes/tones defines the tetrachord. Three whole-note intervals is a "lydian" tetrachord. IDK what the dominant one is... now I'm getting curious! Let me think... oh whatever.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 888Xristos (talk • contribs) 04:00, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Lydian Dominant and the Harmonic Series

message: I plan on deleting any unsourced entries from this in a few weeks. (Listening to a piece and trying to figure out the key is not a source, and is also WP:OR.) Torc2 (talk) 08:28, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Do what you have to, I guess... I don't know how to properly add it, but I think "Jane Says" has (modern) Lydian modality. 70.178.53.145 (talk) 03:51, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Well-known music in this mode

message: Several of these songs are not in the Lydian mode from what I can tell:
Eden - Hooverphonic, Elation Station - Infected Mushroom, Stars - Switchfoot (maybe just one or two sharpened fourths in the intro?), etc. others also have only a small section in Lydian which should also be noted.  I also agree sources are needed for these.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.76.162.30 (talk) 06:10, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Non-Lydian Songs in List 

message: Do we really need all those examples? Rigaudon (talk) 20:39, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: no. we should have a few notable examples with reliable sources that at least support listing them under this mode.  —Chris Capoccia  T⁄C 21:07, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too many examples 

message: It appears to me that the banner stating "This article needs additional citations for verification" is now out of date. Are there any statements remaining that still require citations?—Jerome Kohl (talk) 00:37, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Tag removed. Hyacinth (talk) 01:58, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 06:32, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Additional citations?

message: Article needs inline citations.  General list of references is not sufficient for verification purposes.  I'm tagging this the appropriate maintenance template.  When I have the time, I will go through and try to correlate the references provided to the text, but any help doing this would be appreciated :) Johnnie Bob (talk) 18:18, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, I wrapped the bare Harvard citations and removed the maintenance template (which admittedly wasn't the right template to use anyway).  The citations themselves still need to be updated to current standards.  Perhaps somebody else can help with that ... Johnnie Bob (talk) 19:03, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Inline citations needed

message: The melody of “Pretty Ballerina” by The Left Banke has a flattened seventh, making it derived from the Acoustic Scale and not the Lydian Scale. 2600:8807:8809:4100:6DE0:E638:7FEC:D8CD (talk) 19:09, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  “Pretty Balerina” is not Lydian 

message: “Blue Jay Way” has a #2 in the melody making it a mode of the Harmonic Minor, the source is wrong. 2600:8807:8809:4100:6DE0:E638:7FEC:D8CD (talk) 19:17, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  “Blue Jay Way” is not Lydian 

message: The first sentence of the lead and the accompanying image of a scale are confusing. First, is there such a thing as a modern Lydian mode? That seems to imply that there is some modern mode that is somehow different from, say, the mediaeval one. Second, the scale in the image appears at first glance to be just a common C major scale if one's eye skips over the key signature #, as mine did. It would be better for clarity to place the # immediately before the note, as is common practice in most musical reference books I'm familiar with. Better still, present it as the F to F' scale with no key signature, as it is shown passim in the body. As I am at best an amateur musicologist, and not very expert at editing images in Wikipedia, I hesitate to make a change -- I'll leave it to someone more familiar with the common style of WP articles on modes & scales. D Anthony Patriarche (talk) 16:38, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opening sentence & image confusing