Talk:Baháʼí Faith/Archive 1

message: Belief Net rules require a neutral point of view when discussing topics.  This is often times hard for us when we hold passionate viewpoints, however, I have had to change the wording somewhat on the link which was at first dropped and then changed to refer to another belief as "small, marginal and dissedent" this is not neutral, I persaonlly can live with small, but when addign the other color words to it, it intends to denigrate the group Orthodox Baha'i and is against belief net policy.
: Well, a link to the Orthodox Baha'i Faith _belongs_ on this page.  Now, based on best available estimates, their total membership WORLDWIDE is under 200, but still, as the most prominent dissident group on the web, they deserve mention, if only because people WILL encounter them in searches and stuff. 
: So,  I agree with having the page there.  I _do_think "small" might be appropriate ,but I'll live with the wording as it is. 
: Rick Boatright
: Recently deleted by Anon without a summary. --Menchi 00:57, Aug 2, 2003 (UTC)
Recently re-added to preserve a neutral point of view, I also have left the word small in.  This tends to happen quite often getting beyond coinsidence isnt it?  multiman
Well well the fellow just does nto udnerstand how wikipedia works, so restoring again as wekpedia does call for a neutral point of view and not deleting referencs to other articles where they are applicable.  It can ultimately get you kicked off.
: added it back in _again_  It's getting really old editing the OBF back in and in, and I _hate_ those people.  Oh well, one of the burdons I suppose. Rick Boatright 11/27/2003
Well it is edited out again, I am editing it back in so have you more than once, how can we report this retard who just doesnt seem to get the rules about editing out refernces?  Oh by the way sorry to hear about your hatred, but we all bear burdens.  :-)  multiman
: Yes, it is.  You know, from where I sit, it's a fairly simple case of heresy.  :-)   But that doesn't mean it isn't _real_.  We have to deal with that every day on usenet. Why would people want to try to erase the existance of something.  If it _is_ a heresy, the simplest thing to do is to EXPOSE that. this constant effort to hide them just calls attention to their cause.  Arrrrrggghhhh   anyway, thanks MM Rick Boatright  01DEC2003
Thanks for the re-edit, I also contacted Jimmy Wales about it to see what could be done if it continues.  Read your edit comments, please make such a proposal, I really dont think CGd gets it and who ever the IP address fellow is, both seem to be doing it unless they are one and the same.  They also saw fit on 2 other pages to make these revisions in the name of NPOV.  I cut some slack for a while since I had some trouble myself int he early days on wikipedia understandign what was meant by NPOV, but my patiece is wearing thin.  Again, while we may not agree I appreciagte you intellectual honesty.  Multiman 
Just took a look at latest revision which again removes the link to OBF,I therefore reverted back to the earlier article which has link, in order to preserve NPOV and eliminate possible link terrorism  multiman  13Jan04
-----
Small question.  If you look in the Christianity article, you'll notice that whenever Christ is referred to in the third person, there's never a capital.  However, for Babi, there is.  Shouldn't this be standardised?  I am (very, very) mildly put out that while people will give this mark of respect to one founder of a religion, they won't to another--and of course, it's not really very NPOV.  Either small-letters Babi, i.e. he, him, his; or capitalise Jesus (He, Him, His).  After all, Christians hold Jesus in at least as high regard as Baha'ists hold Babi and Bahaullah! Wooster 15:53, 22 Jan 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Well Baha'is at least certainly wouldn't have a problem with pronouns referring to Jesus being capitalized--as we do it ourselves for Him!  The articles here depend on the whim of those editing the pages, I would say (unless you want to suggest to the powers-that-be here that some strict policy be made about it).  On the one hand, religionists (or protagonists of a specific Faith tradition) feel that their view of a Divine Being is perfectly "neutral" view to hold (or more accuratley, an objective view), and they do not want to be disrespectful or apologetic of their beliefs by writing as if they did not believe it.  However, I think most reasonably-minded people (at least of Faith) would realize that at a website such as this, that even though they may capitalize pronouns themselves in their writing, they are not going to get upset if other people of a different mindset--especially if it is a majority opinion--wish to change them.  So, unless there is a specific policy about it, go ahead and make a change, if you wish, at either site and see what kind of reaction you get!  :)  Brettz9 03:17, 23 Jan 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Orthodox Baha'i Faith editwar 

message: The Bahá'í Faith is the second most widespread of the world's independent religions
I don't understand this-- what's an independent religion? Marnanel 05:52, May 17, 2004 (UTC)
Baptists are a variety of christianity, not an independent religion.  Ditto methodists &c.  12ver Islam, is a variety of Shia Islam, which is a peer to Sunni Islam which has a sub-sect of Wahabi Islam.  But Islam is independent of Christianity or Judeism despite being decendent from them as Abrahamic religions.   Similarly the Baha'i faith is not a sect of Islam as some persian clerics contend (a 12ver heresy), but is an independent religion.  Rick Boatright 22:52, 17 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Independent religions

message: The original is straight out of Bahá'í literature and rather overplayed itself. I've tried to keep the facts. I would appreciate comments as I don't often contribute. So here it is, the suggested new paragraph:
"The Bahá'í Faith is a monotheistic religion, whose members follow the teachings of Bahá'u'lláh, their prophet founder. The Bahá'í Faith is established in 236 countries and territories throughout the world, leading some people to claim that it is the second most widespread religion in the world. The only place where it doesn't have a presence is in the State of the Vatican City. Many followers live in the Middle East, especially Iran and Iraq. Worldwide 6 million followers come from over 2,100 ethnic, racial, and tribal groups. Bahá'í Scriptures have been translated into 802 languages."
:: "leading some people to claim that it is the second most widespread religion in the world.", this is actually a fact and not just what some people claim. "Many followers live in the Middle East, especially Iran and Iraq. " well, the 3 countries with most Bahai´s are India, Iran and USA. i think we should keep the current first paragraph. or at most add a few things (like the countries with more followers) - --Cyprus2k1 06:45, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  as i said above, the majority of believers live in (by order) India, Iran and USA., "The claim that it is the most widespread religion is presented as fact without any evidence." it doesnt say its the most widespread religion, it say its the SECOND most widespread religion, it also says "The Bahá'í Faith is the SECOND most widespread of the world's independent religions IN TERMS OF COUNTRIES IN WICH IS REPRESNTED". - --Cyprus2k1 09:13, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  Update: just checked www.adherents.com wich claims that the countries with most bahais are India, USA, Iran http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_bahai.html , about the number of bahais, the figure most provided in current Baha'i publications is 6.5 milion, however in 1998 Encyclopedia Britannica reports 7.67 million, the reason for this is that the Bahai World Center refuses to "play games" of artificialy inflacting the number of believers, also notice that no one is "born" bahai, one can only become a bahai at age 15 or older and if it so wishes to. --Cyprus2k1 09:26, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

text:  I´am , as you can see in my user page a Bahai, but i dont see how that has any relevance to the discussion (or maybe your just curious :) ). anyway, the Baha'i Faith is the SECOND most (and not THE most) widespread religion in the world acording to Encyclopedia Britanica (and also the Bahai World Center). so i guess we could change, "acording to Encyclopedia Britanica" - --Cyprus2k1 14:29, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)

text: btw, plese leave your signature.. --Cyprus2k1 14:29, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggested new first paragraph 

message: Hi, I'm Jonathan Menon and I am a Canadian living in Italy. I have just found Wikipedia and made a couple of changes today, including changing the word "excommunicated" to "expelled". In my opinion the term "excommunicated" is a very "loaded" word, carrying a great deal of residual assumptions with it from its history in the Catholic church, one of which is the power of the Pope and the way that power has been exercised over the centuries. Of course, the very definition of power in the Faith and the use of authority by the Institutions of the Faith, is very different from this particular reading. "Expelled" has less baggage with it, and I thought it would be more appropriate.
I also have some other things to add, which I will do over the next while. 
I would like to see this article become a featured article, and am willing to help in achieving that.
Best wishes,
Jonathan
Jmenon 08:39, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Excommunicated vs. expelled