Talk:Tengri

message: Are there modern movements and systems of belief that style themselves (Neo-)Tengriism, along the lines of Neo-Paganism? Just curious. :J //Big Adamsky 10:23, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Be aware of Dbachmann's massive edits.--Tirgil34 (talk) 23:04, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: "Neo-Tengrism"?

message: Nearly all statements in this article are unsupported by either facts or citations or arguments. The interpretative material is mostly fantasy. The etymological speculations are preposterous. No philological or historical evidence is submitted. Can someone write a proper article on this (very interesting) subject?
(88.224.69.38 14:16, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've done it for you and removed all the nonsensical ethymological speculations. The article still needs a lot of work, though, especially the "Turkic Version" has little to do with what I've found elsewhere about the topic. The German language article is very nice and well sourced. Maybe I can talk its main author into translating it into english. --Latebird 09:49, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Less fantasy, more facts please 

message: If someone shows me ONE historical source-chronicle or anything which says the Bulgars believed in Tengri i will accept that i'm not right.
:You mean aside from the fact (ruling-class) Bulgars started out as Tengri-worshipping Huns and named a mountain in Bulgaria after him? I can't read it without g. translate, but there is a Bulgarian-language article on the subject you can look at. -LlywelynII (talk) 09:16, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Ancient Bulgars believed in Tangra: University of Saskatchewan, Andrei Vinogradov, Ak Jang in the context of Altai Religous Tradidtion, 2003, p.78 -Tirgil34 (talk) 14:04, 9 March 2012 (CET)
"The Bulgars named a large mountain in the Rila mountain range after Tangra, although it was renamed in the 15th century to Musala ("Mountain of Allah") by the Ottoman Turks."
Nevermind the divination of Tengri among the Bulgars, there is no written source, nor a legend, claiming that the earlier name of Musala peak in Rila was Tengri. In fact, it is a hypothesis with no evidence, raised by some contemporary Bulgarian nationalists. The name of Musala peak is given most probably bu the Yuruks - Turkish-speaking mountain nomads, that roamed and inhabited together with their cattle some mountains in the Balkans after the Ottoman conquest. At that time, Yuruks were Muslims as well as the Ottoman Turks. 
83.143.144.239 (talk) 07:31, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Bulgars never believed in Tengri

message: The "Mongol version" section states, "Geser is a great hero of Tengriism and he is a reincarnation of a sky spirit sent to earth to help serve people as a shaman."  There used to be a separate article for Geser, but it has been merged with Epic of King Gesar.  The latter article, while it states that this epic has currency throughout Central Asia, describes a text of Tibetan Buddhism, not Tengriism.  The article contains no reference to Tengri, Tengriism, or even shamanism.  Is Tengri actually mentioned in this epic?  Or is there, perhaps, a Tengriist version of this epic?  If either is true, it would be nice if the Epic of King Gesar article mentioned it.  If not, then the reference to Geser in the Tengri article should probably be deleted.  -- Takwish | Talk 20:17, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Geser

message: It's value to mention Qilian 祁连 in Qilian Mountains also originated from the Xiangnu term.--刻意(Kèyì) 19:34, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Qilian

message: Dingir(in Sumerian) = "God" Böri (talk) 12:09, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dingir ? 

message: Where are the information about Tengriist practice today gone? AFAIR, there are some Tengriist revival movements in Central Asia, and also, much of Tengriist religion became a part of the local Shamanism. As for the merger itself - may it be, however I think that it's better to keep two separate articles, even if one of them remains a stub. I know that the subject isn't very popular among Europeans or Americans, as the Tengriist culture is quite remote and unknown to the masses. It's so interesting, however, that it deserves its place in Wikipedia. Greetings,  Critto (talk) 15:55, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I understand, dab. I am looking for reliable materials on Tengriism, however this is quite hard on the Net. I will ask some of my friends who are ethnologists, maybe some of them will know about the Tengriist customs and have any reliable, academic sources. Greetings Critto (talk) 18:51, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

text: There is a Tengrist society in Bishkek, which officially claims almost 500,000 followers and an international scientific center of Tengrist studies. Both institutions are run by Dastan Sarygulov, the main theorist of Tengrism in Kyrgyzstan and a member of the Parliament. Publications committed to the subject of Tengrism are more and more frequently published in scientific journals of human sciences in Kyrgyzstan as well as in Kazakhstan. The partisans of this movement endeavor to influence the political circles, and have in fact succeeded in spreading their concepts into the governing bodies. Kazakhstan’s President Nursultan Nazarbayev and even more frequently former Kyrgyz president Askar Akayev have several times mentioned that Tengrism as the national and “natural” religion of the Turkic peoples.
so, everything exactly as you would expect it. They have similar goings-on in the Ukraine, I think, and of course the original template is the Germanic mysticism in Germany in the early 1900s.
Unreferenced as it is, the above paragraph may be a clue for further research by providing the name of Dastan Sarygulov who is apparently the epicenter of this phenomenon.  --dab (𒁳) 10:24, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tengriism today 

message: Someone should edit the article so that it informs the reader that the word Tenger is also found in Hungarian meaning sea. Another thing worth noting is that the root "Ten" in Hungarian represents knowledge and learning. Ex. Tan-ito (teacher) Tan-ul (learns), tan-targy (lesson), etc.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tantargy (talk • contribs) 09:50, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a word of Turkic origin in Hungarian alright, but an etymologically different one: e.g. modern Turkish deniz, Tatar diŋez, which continue to likewise mean 'sea'. If also Tengri ever got into Hungarian, it does not seem to have left known traces. (The Hungarian words for 'sky', ég, and 'heaven', menny, are both native Finno-Ugric.) --Trɔpʏliʊm • blah 13:21, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tenger in Hungarian 

message: There is no sign of Tengri on the wikipedia page. It should a simple plus sign inside a Circle. (actually it's not really a plus sign despite looking exactly like a plus sign, but two arrow heads pointing each other)Ancalimonungol (talk) 14:37, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sign ~ Tamga of Tengri 

message: Could Tengri be a name the Mongolian borrowed from the Chinese language? In modern Chinese it is Tian- Ri (sky-sun, or sky-day). 86.178.171.132 (talk) 02:30, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Chinese connection 

message: "As Gök Tanrı, he was the father of the sun (Koyash)" should be "As Gök Tanrı, he is the father of the sun (Koyash)" because death has no effect if someone is your father or son. even when someone dies one is the father and the other is the son. the interaction may not be as before but one is the father and one is the son
66.74.176.59 (talk) 04:52, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: per WT:MOS discussion. Stickee (talk) 04:15, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 21 February 2015 

message: Remove the line "Tangaroa, a Maori god" from See also. The Tengri pantheon has no relation to the Maori pantheon. The line was added by a Turkish nationalist who is known for pushing kemelism.142.105.159.60 (talk) 19:17, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the  template.  B E C K Y  S A Y L E S  20:04, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 14 June 2016 

message: Tangaroa is a god in the Maori pantheon. It has no relevance to Tengri whatsoever. Are there any objections to removing the mention of Tangaroa from See Also?142.105.159.60 (talk) 19:30, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tangaroa 

message: Remove the line "Tangaroa, a Maori god" from See also. The Tengri pantheon has no relation to the Maori pantheon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.105.159.60 (talk) 19:11, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Terra  @ 19:43, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request 

message: Remove from see also: "Dingir, a Sumerian word (meaning deity) that may have a similar etymology[20]" per OR and FRINGE.
Turkish nationalists are constantly making (debunked) additions to try to connect the Sumerian Language with Tuskish, see Talk:Sumerian_language for more examples. 74.70.146.1 (talk) 20:28, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: More justification needed for removal of cited material. – Train2104 (t • c) 17:04, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Edit request, May 2017

message: Remove from "See Also":
"Dingir, a Sumerian word (meaning deity) that may have a similar etymology[21]"
Basis: WP:FRINGE The Sumerian language is in no way related to Turkic language. The source used to support this statement is from 1928 and is thus completely obsolete. 74.70.146.1 (talk) 22:07, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done for now: The source cited is actually from 1958, based on earlier research going back to 1928. Either way, age alone does not make a source non-reliable.  If you have a source that characterized the Sumerian-Turkic connection as fringe research, then please post it.  Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 22:50, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: You're asking me to prove a negative. 74.70.146.1 (talk) 16:04, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: No, I'm asking you to provide some academic disputation of a Sumerian-Turkic connection.  If I wanted to, say, edit an article to say that the continents move through oceanic crust over time, disputing that wouldn't be proving a negative.  All you'd have to do is refer to the voluminous literature on plate tectonics.  Similarly, if you think the theory of Sumerian-Turkic linguistic connection is a fringe theory, then there should be some linguist somewhere who has disputed that in something.  Somebody obviously published the theory that the connection exists, after all. That's the type of reference this requires.   Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 16:22, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have issued a reply on the noticeboard, seeing as how the dispute has spilled over to the Dingir page now. 74.70.146.1 (talk) 17:08, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Reply at same place but to keep this up to date: The proposed references support your requested change but I'm waiting for further input. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 17:23, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Edit request, October 2017

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: Never have I heard or read of such a thing as the core beings in Tengrism being the Heavenly-Father and the Earth Mother. Tengrism centers on the sky god Tengri, the God of Heaven, aka Göktengri or Göktanrı. 786wave (talk) 17:52, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, it seems kind of strange. Also the Khans justified their rule by heaven alone, not earth. Humans are supposed to have emerged between heaven and earth, but earth was usually not a deity. (at least I never heared or read anything about that) An exception might be Erlik (Yer-lik?), but he is clearly not considered a "supreme being" comparable to Tengri.--VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 20:47, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Just because it is alive, doesn't mean it is a deity in equal. Everything is considered alive in Tengrism, as far as I know, dualism entered later the stage of Tengrism. But maybe I am mistaken.--VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 12:37, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

text: What..? Isn't Tengriism a nature worshipping religion? Also, there are definitely other tngri; no one's saying there's not. Prof. Pedantic (talk) 22:58, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  Tengrism is a term to denote any Turkic/Mongolic religious worldview around theworship of tengri, a term originally meaning "the blue sky" (Kök Tengri). As far as I know, we don't know how many other spirits and deities were actually worshiped. Further, people might adhere to the Turkic/Mongolian Tengri-Cosmology, but don't worship all spirits. For example, Erlik Khan is a famous deity/spirit, yet not all worship him (as far as I know, some even consider it forbidden and persecuted whose who worshipped Erlik). This is probably the reason why some scholars make a distinction between Tengrism and Tuko/Mongolian Shamanism. Yet, in literature, when we read about Tengrism, it usually entails shamanism. Despite that, not all spirits/deities are necessary subject to worship.--VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 13:37, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Two core beings of Tengrism? It’s just one Sky God. 

message: Just want to add a reference to See Also section.
Tengri Khagan (天可汗) was a title addressed to the Emperor Taizong of Tang.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_of_Heaven Alawaus (talk) 02:17, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Generally we don't cite Wikipedia. Do you have a reliable source? Happy Editing--IAmChaos 22:31, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: , I don't think we need a reliable source here. Unless I've not misunderstood this request,  wants to add Khan of Heaven to the See also section, which doesn't require a source. Thanks. --Baggaet (talk) 14:35, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

text: Aaron Liu (talk) 03:28, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 11 June 2022 

message: Kăwak Тĕnçeri Tură - Blue Sky Creator=(GOD) - Kök Teŋiri .
Тĕnçeri - IPA [tʲɘnʲd͡ʑɛrʲi] - Heavenly, Ecumenical.
Tĕne =  天 tiān - sky.
Chuvash: Tĕne, Tĕnche
English: world, sky, universe
Mari: тÿня
Udmurt: дунне
Uzbek: дунё
Azerbaijani: dünya
Turkish: dünya
Tatar: дөнья
Bashkir: донъяла
«匈奴谓天为撑犁» - Xiōngnú wèi tiān wèi tēnglí - The Huns called the tiān (sky) a tenjri.
Tĕncheri - ‏𐱅𐰭𐰼𐰃‎ *teŋri. - heavenly.
Tĕncheri Tură - heavenly creator (god).
Tură - God - in translation means Creator.
AMA (dial. Kukamai / Kăwak Amai) - goddess Ama - she is Umai among the Turks , sometimes Kök Umai - Is the goddess of fertile land, the patroness of mothers and children. Ama translated from the Chuvash Mother's Womb.
We call our faith "Chăn Chăvash Tĕni" - The World Order of the Real Chuvashs (in translation). Our main god is Tĕncheri Tură - the God of Heaven (the Universe) which consists of several layers.
Çĕlhe - [t͡ɕɪɫɣe] - language
Tatar - tel (e)
Bashkir - tel (e)
Chuvash - chĕl (he)
Mongolian: hal
Turkish: dil (dil)
Azerbaijani: dil
Uzbek: til (til)
Kazakh: Тілі
Kyrgyz: Tili
Uyghur: tili
Yakut: rear
Altaic: til
Shor: Tili
Afrikaans: taal
Dutch: taal
Estonian: (keel) keel
Finnish: kieli
Mari - jyl (me)
Udmurt - kyl
moksha - kyal
Erzya - kel
Lithuanian: kal/ba (kalba)
Say thanks to UXM. I know all the ancient Chuvash mythology Chăn Chăvash Tĕni (Tengrianism) 176.52.97.226 (talk) 12:25, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chuvash Etimology 

message: “Göktürk khans based their power on a mandate from Tengri. These rulers were generally accepted as the sons of Tengri who represented him on Earth. ”
This sentence is clearly wrong. If the editors believe it is correct, they should add a very strong citation. Tanrikut does not mean Khan descended from God. It is a heavenly mandate. It means they were chosen by God to rule over mankind. It was believed to be inherlted by all members of the dynasty. However, it does not mean Khan descnded from God (as in China or Japan).
There are several different Gokturk origin myths in Chinese chronicle Zhou Shu Section 50. None of them claim descent from God. The most mythical of these claims Gokturk dynasty descended from a boy and a she wolf. 2A02:1811:C02:9400:BC87:7F45:EFF5:237D (talk) 20:52, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Edward-Woodrow (talk) 21:06, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 28 February 2023 

message: Please, add a reference to "Sea Also":
Tangra, a Bulgarian rock band named after Tengri.
: Not done: That article has no connections to this article. Lightoil (talk) 04:48, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 19 August 2023