Talk:Transitional Federal Government of Somalia

message: This has been bugging me since December 2006, but I finally made the big push to split the executive branch (TFG) from the legislative branch (TFP). Please help differentiate the two, and make sure to update links as appropriate. --Petercorless 15:00, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Split from [[Transitional Federal Parliament]] (TFP)

message: Folks, the lineup of the Cabinet of Ministers is out-of-date for certain. News reports widely state that Hussein Aidid is no longer Interior Minister, but all so far have failed to name his replacement. The page for the Interior Minister at the TFG's official site is broken, as are many other links. I have taken the step to actually write to the TFG Prime Minister to ask that the new list be posted on the TFG site, so we can quote it and thus, it would not be "original research." I'll let you know if I get a response. Meanwhile, know that I am keeping my eye peeled for any information about the latest cabinet lineup. --Petercorless 07:40, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Finding more citations. Slowly, but surely. --Petercorless 09:57, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Lineup of Somali Cabinet of Ministers out-of-date 

message: Do you think we might want to keep "historical lists" of cabinet members, such as the cabinet first approved in 2004, the cabinet after the dismissals of 2006, and the reshuffling of 2007. We should probably put such on a different link "Former ministers of the Somali government" or some such, which could even go back to Siad Barre days and early days of independence.
--Petercorless 07:40, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Separate list of former ministers?

message: I came to this article to find out by whom and how this government was created and what the government's legitimacy is from the people's perspective. Lord Metroid 00:30, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: How?

message: I came across this page while doing some research and noticed that it is competely out of date. The TFG has lost control over almost all parts of the country and most members of the Parliament and the Cabinet have fled from Somalia after Baidoa fell to the al-Shabaab. Is anyone of the former editors able to bring the page up to date? 84.178.123.80 (talk) 22:00, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The TFG's partition of power with the various regional governments is already mentioned in the article. The TFG also relocated from Baidoa years ago, not recently. It is now based in Mogadishu. This too is indicated in the history section, as is the government's struggle with religious insurgents. Middayexpress (talk) 23:10, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent Developments 

message: TFG has no powerr in the capital Mogadishu let alone the country. I think the Goverment should recognize Somaliland so the International Community lets face it Somalia is Dead.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.32.184.180 (talk) 06:30, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Strength 

message: just removed a copyvio of ca 4 sentences (see article). Althought the source is quoted (www.unhcr.org/refworld/publisher,USCIRF,,,4a4f272bc,0.html), it is not indicated tht quotation was used; and it goes beyond "selective quotation". I have no time to make a better version now but have decided to precautiously remove it (there is a copyright sign at the bottom of the site, so UN things are not automatically public domain. Feel free to re-add a non copyvio-text conveying the same meeaning! L.tak (talk) 08:13, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  copyvio 

message: The file is used on this page and 3 others, but it might not constitute fair use for all 4 pages (furthermore, specific fair use rationales are missing). Feel free to comment at . L.tak (talk) 14:35, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Possible fair use image of Somalian technical image

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thread_title: File:Puncoaguar.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: I went to the ministry's page and did a manual count of how many embassies the TFG currently has and came up with 34. It was definitely more than the 19 that was indicated in the article. This looked like the best place to find it but let me know if this isn't the best place for this information. Dreambeaver (talk) 19:12, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Embassies 

message: I followed the link to the "official page of the Somali government" mentioned here - and got to a blog with articles like "stunning cars in films". I think the link ist wrong or the page does not longer exist.
217.24.63.245 (talk) 13:30, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I noticed that as well. I think that there must be no official website as of now. Any Google searches I've done have brought me nothing. I'm going to remove the link until we can find something else. Dreambeaver (talk) 00:39, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  TFG Homepage 

message: Per this, "internationally recognized" is POV and vague (every state and entity did not do so, as opposed to "UN-recognised interim" which is factual an d as per the name it is interim. The current lead is a mishmash of paras, which had been consolidated before being related. It also cites "undue in lede" for cuorruption, which was a n important aspect/criticism of it. It also removed "the TFG's tenure officially ended" which was sourced to a RS. "parliamentary vote-based presidential election" is not the COMMONNAME, its is a indirect election. Capitalisation of titles is restored but it is NOT a proper noun by itself, only when used as a title for a person, otherwise its just a generic name for the role. As was hthe ref, which now has inconsistencies in which ref format as used. This seems to indicate a blind revert of additions and against AGF.Lihaas (talk) 08:12, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, "UN-recognized" understates the degree of the TFG's recognition, which was international, not just limited to the U.N. (c.f. ). Also see indirect election for what that term actually means. It doesn't apply here because at no point did the public elect the MPs tasked with choosing the president; those MPs were instead nominated by the NCA. Middayexpress (talk) 18:20, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Problem edit 

message: This seems to be a subjective appellation and is unsourced. Several obituaries in respected international new outlets omit this description, for example:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/abdullahi-yusuf-ahmed-warlord-who-as-president-failed-to-restore-order-to-somalia-7604011.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/24/world/africa/abdullahi-yusuf-ahmed-ex-strongman-of-somalia-dies-at-77.html?_r=0
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3732020.stm
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/africa/120324/somalia-ex-president-abdullahi-yusuf-ahmed-dies-exile
http://www.voanews.com/content/former-somali-president-yusuf-dies-at-77-143969976/179407.html
Although none reject his service as a "career officer" or credentials as a rebel leader against the Barre regime, he is more commonly referred to as a divisive figure and a warlord. The term "hero" is not widely used, except by his supporters, and therefore raises NPOV concerns. HOA Monitor (talk) 01:27, 24 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, that Yusuf was a war hero is not subjective; he was twice decorated for bravery in combat . On the other hand, what is subjective and inconsistent with WP:LABEL is that he was a warlord. What he actually was for a time was a faction leader, like Ahmed Mohamed Mohamoud. Domestic obituaries and his state funeral note this: 
http://www.africareview.com/News/Former+Somali+President+is+dead/-/979180/1372082/-/go5ttrz/-/
http://www.garoweonline.com/artman2/publish/Somalia_27/Somalia_Former_President_Abdullahi_Yusuf_to_be_buried_in_Puntland_printer.shtml
http://puntlandi.com/former-somali-president-and-founder-of-puntland-abdulahi-yusuf-ahmed-dies-in-dubai/
http://www.garoweonline.com/artman2/publish/Somalia_27/Somalia_Col_Abdullahi_Yusuf_laid_to_rest_printer.shtml
Middayexpress (talk) 16:06, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

text: There is no question that Yusuf was a divisive figure and that his background as a faction leader contributed to the widespread -- though not universal -- perception of him as a strongman and warlord. These characterisations are an important part of understanding his political persona and his inability to unite the country.HOA Monitor (talk) 03:55, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: That is your opinion. "Rebel leader" is the more common and neutral term for Ahmed's time as an opposition chief; Ahmed Mohamed Mohamoud as well. Subjective labels such as "warlord" are also discouraged per WP:LABEL. Middayexpress (talk) 14:25, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

text: Ironically, your edits raise WP:NPOV issues. It is a fact that he was decorated twice for bravery as a war hero. Whether it is "widely used" or not is irrelevant, check WP:WEASEL. To the point of divisive, that is WP:LABEL, also check the previous policy. 26oo (talk) 03:06, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Those are still subjective opinions/value judgements. A "leader of the Somali Salvation Democratic Front", on the other hand, is not. Middayexpress (talk) 03:29, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Abdillahi Yusuf: "War Hero" 

message: I have placed the para in its historical context and associated international recognition with the current SFG, rather than the defunct TFG, which I believe solves the problem. I have also removed a reference to the UN arms embargo preventing the establishment of security forces, since the embargo included a simple waiver procedure for Somali security sector institutions, meaning that they were in fact eligible for assistance. I would concur that among the main challenges for the TFG at this time were lack of resources and international indifference.HOA Monitor (talk) 13:43, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Asserting that the TFG was the second significant attempt to restore national institutions to Somalia is still a value judgement. However, that the TFG was the second interim administration after the TNG aiming to restore national institutions is not. Middayexpress (talk) 16:47, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

text: The Federal Republic of Somalia came into existence only as of last year and is the successor to the transitional government which was indeed interim, hence the name transitional. 'Internationally recognized' is important given the months that the Islamic Courts Union held Mogadishu, the TFG was still recognized by the international organizations as the legitimate government of Somalia with its seat in Mogadishu. 26oo (talk) 03:21, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Recognition

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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