Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment/VeryVerily

message: It is my opinion that there is no excuse for the kind of revert war that was demonstrated here, regardless of the conduct of the other user involved. Use RfC, ViP, Peer Review, IRC, or any number of means beyond mindless reverting. Snowspinner 02:46, 22 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure you understand how long this has been going on for, and how many lesser remedies I have tried. VV 08:39, 22 May 2004 (UTC)

text: In his support, it is easy to be caught up in the heat of the moment, and when one see's an admin behavong in a certain way, it can seem to be more acceptable than it might otherwise have been. Sam [Spade] 03:06, 22 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: 50 reverts, I think, is beyond defense, honestly. Snowspinner 03:29, 22 May 2004 (UTC)

message: I started off with Talk:Augusto Pinochet. I will soon chronicle all his slanders against me so that people stop falling for these attacks and finally let me get back to work. 172 07:36, 23 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't get it.  This just doesn't seem damning at all. VV 09:03, 23 May 2004 (UTC)

text: #VV 05:50, 22 May 2004 (UTC)

text: A particularly comical example of this is in Talk:Origins_of_the_American_Civil_War/Archive_1 under the rule under section 6, where 172 declared "proof" that I was "trolling" because I did not respond to his comment within thirty-one minutes! Anyway, 172 is playing dumb here; if he really had reread the comments, he would have seen the extensive discussion on this point, the most reason one involving him, Cadr, and me. But what trolls do is post inflammatory content to provoke more and more responses. That's why he wants me to keep repeating myself. -- VV 11:29, 10 May 2004 (UTC)

text: Surely you've seen the weeks' worth of discussion, and how little fruit it's brought with 172, who dismisses all criticisms and says it's "too bad" if you don't like his version. I and several other users have worked out consensus versions of the intro, but 172 will only tolerate his own. I do consider this trolling; he is deliberately adding inflammatory misinformation over several users' wishes, knowing it will provoke a response; that is virtually the definition. -- VV 00:16, 4 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Passive aggression

message: :#VV 05:50, 22 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Wikipedia:Requests for comment/172]]

message: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Augusto_Pinochet&diff=3666291&oldid=3663433
I'm not saying you're 172's friend. I'm saying his friends started swarming. As an intellectual you should recognize this as the affirming the consequent logical fallacy. I'm aware of your general feelings about 172 and me, although I still don't feel I understand them completely despite our first conversation. VV 20:48, 20 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: A particularly comical example of this is in Talk:Origins_of_the_American_Civil_War/Archive_1 under the rule under section 6, where 172 declared "proof" that I was "trolling" because I did not respond to his comment within thirty-one minutes! Anyway, 172 is playing dumb here; if he really had reread the comments, he would have seen the extensive discussion on this point, the most reason one involving him, Cadr, and me. But what trolls do is post inflammatory content to provoke more and more responses. That's why he wants me to keep repeating myself. -- VV 11:29, 10 May 2004 (UTC)

text: Surely you've seen the weeks' worth of discussion, and how little fruit it's brought with 172, who dismisses all criticisms and says it's "too bad" if you don't like his version. I and several other users have worked out consensus versions of the intro, but 172 will only tolerate his own. I do consider this trolling; he is deliberately adding inflammatory misinformation over several users' wishes, knowing it will provoke a response; that is virtually the definition. -- VV 00:16, 4 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Talk:Augusto Pinochet]]

message: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Snowspinner&dummy=1&diff=0&oldid=3684534
Hey Snowspinner, I understand your concerns about the three-revert rule, but you may not know my history with it. I did stick to the rule for a while in my dealings with 172, and he never did. The quickpoll system in force, I tried to use that to bring up one of 172's more egregious revert attacks (five in ~one hour against two users, trying to erase a week's worth of edits) - and the community shrugged it off. 172 does not consider himself bound by this rule - or any rule - and my edits and efforts will simply be destroyed if I do not do battle. I hope you realize I really have tried everything I can think of - RfC pages, 3rd party interventions, long, long, long attempts to talk to him on Talk and User talk pages - and nothing but reverting back has worked. 172 lacks basic respect for others and the Wiki process, and the community lacks the will and coherence to control him. VV 06:17, 22 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: [[User talk:Snowspinner]]

message: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Eloquence&diff=0&oldid=3694570
Well, I saw no indication 172 was getting the discussion on track, and time has borne this out. To me attacking 172's behavior is not a personal attack (e.g., saying "172 keeps inappropriately reverting the article"). Calling me a "little bitch" or an "ignorant fuck" is. Anyway, you might have noticed there are RfC pages on us now, and the threat of arbitration. Perhaps you will chime in; I hope at least you can validate my claims about 172's conduct, whatever your other sentiments. VV 23:39, 22 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: [[User talk:Eloquence]]

message: Hey Ed Poor, you might want to refer to the extensive discussion about this meaningless and irrelevant "poll" if you haven't been checked lately. And anyway, as you and Michael Snow both pointed out, the poll binds nothing, and, of course, it is tainted by 172's campaigning. VV 12:34, 20 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: User talk:Ed Poor

message: One major difference between my "rollback" and 172's is that his last one was done after the page was protected, which I as a non-admin could not equal. If this was intentional, it would be his fourth violation of protection policy (that I know of!), but I conjecture it was not, since for one it was before the msg:protected went up. (I think reverting would be appropriate since admins should not have extra personal dispute power.) Since "admin rollback" is marked as minor it seems it should not be used for run of the mill content disputes, but this may not be policy. Also, Snowspinner, you missed the edit war at Joseph Stalin! I urge users to see for themselves the nature of the edits which 172 felt he should use ~50 reverts, without comment, to prevent me from making. VV 08:26, 22 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Wikipedia:Requests for review of administrative actions]]

message: VeryVerily reappeared after an absence for a day, and right away upon return he reverted work mostly by Eloquence, who made progress toward unprotecting Augusto Pinochet and expanding the intro without my involvement even, for the most part. He also provoked an edit war on My Lai Massacre, which I had been trying to prevent by linking both the VC and NLF to the article. He even reverted an entire section I had added to History of Chile, an article he had never even touched before, without comment, thus provoking an edit war. And watch him turn around after I make these comments and play the victim. The only thing this user does on Wikipedia is pick fights with me (likely because of severe psychological problems, I am beginning to believe). I mean, just look at his user history. He hardly does anything else. 172 07:35, 28 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: As I have said several times, I think both you and VeryVerily engage in terrible editing practices, and that neither one of those justifies the other one editing the same way (As the examples of Wik and Cantus should be showing you). Frankly, as bad as everything you've just said makes VV look, accusing him of having severe psychological problems on top of it just makes you look bad too. Snowspinner 14:07, 28 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree my editing practices have not shown Zen-like patience, but I'm asking people to consider them in the context of several months of 172's attacks on me. VV 21:18, 28 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: VeryVandalism