Template talk:POV/Archive 2

message: To make it more obvious that the talk page is the place to discuss, the template should read "The neutrality of this article is disputed, as outlined on the discuss page". That would avoid people adding the template without writing on the talk page.
Fred-Chess 23:40, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wording 

message: The image of this template should be changed to :Image:Nuvola apps important.svg. This template is a warning and not "a stop". --Off! 11:30, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I reverted it, the stop hand is a better image - like a warning! --Sunfazer (talk) 23:18, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

text: I reverted it again as well. I prefer the current image. Further, this image is used on all of the other dispute/warning templates, so if we're going to change it here, we need to change it in all the other templates as well. —Locke Cole • t • c 04:12, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Change image? 

message: Codemonkey, the current version is very ugly on pages. Bad color, bad size. I'd like to change it back to the version I had up earlier. SlimVirgin (talk) 21:06, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Size and color

message: I changed the width style value to be the same as Template:current as it fixes a rendering problem with Safari (browser).—Tokek 12:52, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Style fixing 

message: I've created a new template: :Template:POV-map to deal with maps that do not conform to POV. =Nichalp «Talk»= 10:49, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV maps 

message: Following on from the POV-map template discussion, would it be a good idea to change "The neutrality of this article is disputed." to "The neutrality of this article is disputed." This keeps all current uses exactly the same (default word is article), while allowing for other wording like "The neutrality of this map is disputed." (see above the creation of the POV-map template). Usage would be ,  or whatever. "Type" is probably the wrong word to use, any ideas or suggestions on any of this? --h2g2bob 19:32, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Frequently changing and increasingly complex templates are becoming a problem on Wikipedia. I'd certainly appreciate it being left as it is. SlimVirgin (talk) 15:58, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Change "article" to "<nowiki>{{{type|article}}}</nowiki>"? 

message: Sunholm and Dragons flight, stop it.  You have both violated the three-revert rule.  If it continues any longer, I will report you both to the 3RR violations board.  I'm being very lenient.  Let's decide on an icon here, shall we? --Mr. Lefty Talk to me! 22:43, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We're trying to stop Sunholm from "edit warring" multiple pages as well. Dragons flight blocked him for 3 hours earlier. Just report Sunholm to WP:AN/3RR if he continues doing again. -- ADNghiem501 01:35, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Oh, yeah, you're right. Dragons flight didn't violate 3RR. Whoops. --Mr. Lefty Talk to me! 19:32, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit war 

message: I've adapted the template slightly to enable it to be used to indicate more specific problems than simply a whole article. By using it in the form  the alternative text will replace the word article, allowing it to be used to refer to a specific problem such as a biased set of links, a biased list of sources, a biased paragraph, etc. However if no alternative text is specified, the word article is shown as default. The change doesn't in any way affect the normal usage of the template, merely gives it the potential to be used in a more specific manner when needed. 
For example,
  produces  
	The neutrality of this article is disputed.  Please see the discussion on the talk page.
 
FearÉIREANN\(caint) 14:40, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Adaption

message: The neutrality of this article is disputed.  Please see the discussion on the talk page.
McKzzFizzer 16:50, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  this could work 

message: I'm concerned about John E. Sarno and Tension myositis syndrome which is a diagnosis Dr. Sarno invented. I flagged Sarno as POV-because the article didn't mention that his views (mainly on TMS which he invented as a diagnosis) are controversial. The Sarno page now basically says that some consider Sarno controversial, but that he is "still curing patients" with no citation. Is there some policy on not removing a POV flag until some resolution is reached? I'm probably going to flag the TMS page for POV or sources and I'd like to know in advance what to do it it's taken down. --Howdybob 05:19, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's case by case, the tagger has no more rights than any other user.Rlevse 15:36, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: What are the rules for removing this template and others?

message: *
	The neutrality of the body of this article is disputed.  Please see the discussion on the talk page.
Article headers can often be NPOVed comparatively easily, while it can sometimes take months to NPOV an entire article.  When agreement on the header does occur, it seems to have utility for readers to know the header is not disputed.  Any thoughts on Template:POV-body being placed after introductions, above articles' table of contents (meaning it still must be read before readers can reach the TOC)? --Nectar 08:35, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think a section template might be good, but if almost the whole article is under dispute, I would think that people might also be prone to make edits to the headers, so it might be safer to just let readers know at the top that the article is disputed. --Howdybob 06:24, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposal: Template:POV-body 

message: Could we make this shorter?  It creates a lot of whitespace. OneWeirdDude 16:43, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too long? 

message: was deleted a while ago, for dubious reasons (if people are abusing something, ban them; don't destroy functionality just because it might be abused), and I was going to put it up for undeletion review.  Instead, I'd like to change the usage of this template a little to achieve the same effect.  I propose that it be mandatory to provide a concise reason for the template, and that it be placed at the top of the section on the talk page which is linked from the template, set apart from the text in a box or bold or something or other, and have the template changed a little to signify to newcomers where they might find that concise summary.  I know that some people may abuse it to insert their POV or "get a headstart" or whatever.  So what?  Discipline the people who are causing the problem.  Our readers need to know why an article is disputed, in a concise way, without reading through tons of crap on the talk page, and without dismissing the entire article because of a tag at the top that only refers to one specific point. — Omegatron 03:47, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I added such a box to Talk:Renewable_energy#What_happened_to_nuclear.3F, as an example of what I am thinking of. — Omegatron 04:49, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV-because undeletion 

message: Why was permprotect applied?  Gnixon 15:44, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Vandalism . High visibility. The template is seldom edited. Just note on the talk page here if you have a legitimate need to change the template (also admins should propose changes on the talk page first). Mark your request with  and an admin will make the edit. The documentation is not protected and can be freely edited (for example, interwikis can be added there). I hope this is acceptable for you. --Ligulem 18:03, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, that sounds reasonable.  Thanks.  Gnixon 01:18, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  PermProtect 

message: I suggest that the following change is made so that articles are put in :Category:NPOV disputes or Category:NPOV disputes from date not both as per guidelines.  This could reduce duplication of effort − Just add the date to unresolved POV tags when checking the alphabetical list to move them to the dated lists.  It also reduces category bloat in articles.
====change====
 
 
====to====
 
Any comments before I apply ? -- TrevMrgn 02:18, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, let's try it -- TrevMrgn 20:44, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. NCurse  work 19:03, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed change - dated categories 

message: 
Any comments before I apply ? -- TrevMrgn 02:18, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, let's try it -- TrevMrgn 20:44, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. NCurse  work 19:03, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: to

message: 
{| class="messagebox" style="max-width: 28em; background: #FFF0D9;"
|-
|width="20%"|[[Image:Unbalanced scales.svg|none|40px]]
|style="text-align: center"|The [[Wikipedia:Neutral point of view|neutrality]] of this article is [[Wikipedia:NPOV dispute|disputed]]. <br><small> Please see the discussion on the [[:{{NAMESPACE}} talk:{{PAGENAME}}#{{{1|}}}|talk page]].</small>{{#if:{{{date|}}}|<br><small>This article has been tagged since {{{date}}}.</small>}}<includeonly>
{{#if:{{{date|}}}|[[:Category:NPOV disputes from {{{date}}}]]|[[:Category:NPOV disputes|{{PAGENAME}}]]}}</includeonly>
|width="20%"|  
|}

I noticed that on wide screens this template's text doesn't center properly. Please adjust the code for the template as noted above to correct this. Thanks. (→Netscott) 01:53, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, I tested your code on a subpage of mine, User:AnonEMouse/TemplateTest2 and it created an ugly   mark on the side of the template. I can't play more, because, frankly, the current template centers fine for me. Can you please test your proposed change a bit, and come back (and restore the ) only when you're absolutely sure of it? If you also include a screenshot of just how badly centered the thing looks in your browser that might help, since, as I wrote, it looks fine to me in Firefox on Windows XP. Thanks. AnonEMouse (squeak) 22:36, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you copied from the code from the edit space that would happen. To make the code display right in talk space I added an & symbol. I'll adjust that... and then there'll be no problems (it just won't show up on the talk page). (→Netscott) 22:38, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Fast response! Anyway, now the template on my test page is 4 lines no matter how wide I resize my browser, while the original one is 4 lines with a narrow browser and 4 2 with a wide one (my screen settings are now 1280x1024). I prefer the original, I'm afraid. AnonEMouse (squeak) 22:46, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: 4=4=4 no?, where's the difference? You've said that they are all four lines... ??? (→Netscott) 23:10, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Here's what I'm seeing on both Safari and Firefox. (→Netscott) 23:15, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Sorry, meant 2 when my screen was wide enough. AnonEMouse (squeak) 14:00, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Better centering

message: Can we please have a way to add in information on why we think a page is POV? A one-sentence comment is often far more helpful at explaining a view than merely saying it has problems. Adam Cuerden talk 22:03, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There was a template like that called "POV-because" but it was deleted (thankfully so imho). (→Netscott) 22:06, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

text: It would be better if you could just add the reason why you think it's POV inside the template itself.   — Omegatron 06:03, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Missing functionality

message: <div class="messagebox disputed metadata">
{|style="width:100%;background:#FFF0D9;text-align:center"
|width=60px|[[Image:Unbalanced scales.svg|none|40px]]
|The [[Wikipedia:Neutral point of view|neutrality]] of this article is [[Wikipedia:NPOV dispute|disputed]].<br /><small>Please see the discussion on the [[{{TALKPAGENAME}}#{{{1|}}}|talk page]].{{#if:{{{date|}}}|<br />This article has been tagged since {{{date}}}.}}</small>
|}</div><includeonly>{{#if:{{{date|}}}|[[Category:NPOV disputes from {{{date}}}]]|[[Category:NPOV disputes|{{PAGENAME}}]]}}</includeonly>
Which would look like:
	The neutrality of this article is disputed.Please see the discussion on the talk page.
----
The CSS is a hack.  The width, background and alignment should be in the "disputed" and "messagebox" css classes. At least this is one step in the right direction (toward orthogonality, that is). -- PatrickFisher 05:48, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So basically you're suggesting making the box wider? It seems to me to be fine at its current size – these messages distract readers from the article itself quite enough already without making them more prominent – Gurch 14:07, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see a need for the box to be wider. Denying this request. ZsinjTalk 19:21, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm, I came here to suggest a similar change, and glad it's been done already.  However, the admins reviewing this change didn't understand the matter at hand.  That code above was cleaned from invalid/deprecated HTML with perfect CSS to boot.  The onl thing wrong is the size, which was set to 100%.  Just use the original size in pixels, and the problem should be pretty much solved.  Don't allow the present bad coding to be available in so many pages of Wikipedia where this template is used.--Saoshyant talk / contribs (I don't like Wikipedophiles) 16:18, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed Edit