Talk:Christianity by country

message: The table needs to be made sortable by some kind soul. BTW this is the nearest to the bottom of the page I could get on mobile, so move this section below if needed. -- Quack5quack (talk) 22:32, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Make table sortable

message: http://www.census.gov/main/www/stat_int.html
this webpage links to census departments for each country listed.  Most seem to list religius afiliation.  Eurobarometer is a poor source since it is a poll and does not ask about christianity directly.  The CIA does not list all sources but they do seem to match the information given by the census departments for the countries that I have looked at so far.  The census information might not be perfect for countries that have a state church, but should be used unless more accurate information is found.  Reading a poll and then doing some math to determine the number of christians in European countries is to me, poor research, sorry.  Also, say only a few percentage of people regularly attend church in Sweden, but how many of them answer that they are christian on a census poll?  If they consider themselves christian, then they are (at least culturally) whether they ever go to church or not.  Mykart  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.37.25.255 (talk) 22:45, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Mykart says:  "Most seem to list religius afiliation"  ---------- I just looked at about 30 countries at random and I found about two that showed religious adherence. This is the problem. The statistics for religious adherence are thin on the ground. Hence the current state of the article by adhering to varyiable sources rather than estimates. Vexorg 02:58, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statistics for each country 

message: Please rollback the Eurobarometer version, it was more realistic.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.8.82.250 (talk • contribs) 10:19, November 5, 2007 — 87.8.82.250 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. 
:Yes it was more realistic, but unfortunately realism isn't a specific requirement of Wikipedia Vexorg 18:24, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia is about verifiable information, not what information Vexorg "estimates" is "realistic". - Mdsummermsw 04:06, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  ... and not what the CIA "estimates" is "realistic" either of course. Which is why I've gone along with the current verifiable version :) - I do think you'll find most people view the Eurobarometer figures as being most closely aligned with reality though. However that would be appeal to popularity and not verifyable. Vexorg 23:31, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As repeatedly discussed, the "Eurobarometer figures" are not "Eurobarometer" figures -- they are figures, but they are not from Eurobarometer. We should call them "Vexorg's original research figures". - Mdsummermsw 14:58, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rollback Eurobarometer version 

message: Hello ::Mdsummermsw :) - What about Islam BY Country. Hinduism By Country, etc, etc ??? Should we approacj those articels in the sameway. After all it's onyl fair I guess. Vexorg (talk) 21:14, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I figure we really need to get one of these articles to shake out into something verified, sourced, etc. before we start trying to replicate it elsewhere. Feel free to work on the others if you want, but I'm staying here for a bit longer first. Mdsummermsw (talk) 21:59, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other religions by country 

message: I have just removed the Albania figure, given as 35%. The cited source said, "An estimated 20 to 25 percent of the population belongs to communities that are traditionally Albanian Orthodox and 10 percent to Catholic communities....In addition to the four traditional religious groups, there are substantial numbers of followers of Protestant denominations, Baha'is, Jehovah's Witnesses, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons), and other religious groups."
So, it seems the 35% was assuming 25% Albanian Orthodox (ignoring the 20% figure) + 10% Catholic and ignoring "substantial numbers of followers of Protestant denominations, Baha'is, Jehovah's Witnesses, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons), and other religious groups."
This is original research and/or synthesis. - Mdsummermsw (talk) 17:00, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: In fact every percentage about Albania is not true because I live in Albania and the real number of Muslim and Christian population is unknown, and these facts that are figured here are before Socialism, so before the year 1945 and I suppose that today the situation is not the same...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.24.250.130 (talk) 09:38, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The figure reported for Albania is cited to a current, reliable source. Please do not change the figure without addressing the sourcing. - SummerPhD (talk) 15:08, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Albania

message: The new map is vague on sources. It cites: "CIA - The World Factbook - To view percentages visit country by choice, and select 'People' [3]. 
Census Bureau: Statistical Agencies - Percentages of the governments census data, select country of choice for statistics."
1) We do not know which countries' data came from which source. In the event that both sources cite figures, how was it decided which source to use?
2) "Census Bureau: Statistical Agencies" is not a source, it is a listing of statistical agencies.
3) WP:BURDEN states, "The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material. All quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged should be attributed to a reliable, published source using an inline citation.[1] The source should be cited clearly and precisely to enable readers to find the text that supports the article content in question. Editors should cite sources fully, providing as much publication information as possible, including page numbers when citing books.[2]" The map in question does not "clearly and precisely" cite sources for each individual figure.
4) The article is missing data for the overwhelming majority of the countries listed because we have been unable to find unambiguous data in reliable sources. The map, however, is nearly complete.
5) Given the contentious history of the data in this article, it should be self-evident that all data presented is "likely to be challenged". Please provide complete data and sourcing information similar to:
*Primoden: 16.3%, 2003 Primoden Census "Religion", page 16.
*Secundostan: 84.9%, CIA - The World Factbook, "Secundostan - Religion".
Or, you may wish to simply update the article to match the data reflected by the map.
Thanks. - Mdsummermsw (talk) 18:39, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: New map

message: ===Other, unspecified, etc.===
I've just gone through the first few (up to Bahrain) of the returned figures and added a few +s. Many of those sourced said "Muslin q%, Catholic x%, Protestant y%, other z%, unspecified n%" or similar. The article then stated "x+y% Christian". Yes, we probably agree that Catholics and Protestants are Christians. But, some of those classified as "other", "unspecified", etc. might be Christians. So, the figure stated was far less exact than it seemed.
===Adding rounded figures===
Next, we have to deal with the abuse of statistics. A census might categorize the population as being in one of 10 categories. If we assume that 9.95% fit into each of the first 9 categories, we would have 10.45% in the tenth, for a total of 100.00%. If we round these to one decimal, though, we get ~10.0% in each of the first nine and ~10.5% in the tenth, for a "total" of 100.5%. You cannot add rounded figures and get a meaningful result.
===Adding figures that have a margin of error===
Finally, we have margins of error. Surveys typically question a small number of people (hundreds or thousands) and project those answers into the larger population (millions or billions). No census ever captures 100% of the population and statistical methods calculate numbers for the remainder. There is a margin of error, typically under 5% or so. The margin of error means that there is a 98% (varies) chance that the actual figure (if it could be found) would be within 5% of the figure shown. So, that "25.0%" actually means a 98% chance that the number is between 23.75% and 26.25%, which is all well and good. Now lets add the figures from before (9 cats at 9.95% and 1 at 10.45%). Adding up the rounded figures (10.0%) for four of those categories gives us a mythical 40.0%. Actuallly (sparing you the math), there is about a 92% chance that the number is really between 37.8% and 41.8%. For the usual 98% confidence, we would actually have a margin of error of about 11.5%, meaning there is a 98% chance the real figure is between 35.2% and 44.4%. You cannot add figures with a margin of error and get a meaningful result.
===Summary===
If the source says something, we can report what it says. If it almost says what we are hoping it will tell us, we cannot use it. Please read WP:OR. - Mdsummermsw (talk) 15:00, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I was wondering whether all the (Foo).0(%) texts might be removed for the sake of consistency. GregKaye 09:30, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Return of the soft figures

message: If the source says something, we can report what it says. If it almost says what we are hoping it will tell us, we cannot use it. Please read WP:OR. - Mdsummermsw (talk) 15:00, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I was wondering whether all the (Foo).0(%) texts might be removed for the sake of consistency. GregKaye 09:30, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Summary

message: Hi. The offensive remarks by The Evil Spartan where I am accused of 'hating America' above have been noted on WP:ANI and on his talk page. This editor clearly has a personal agenda against me. Vexorg (talk) 19:51, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Holy moly. Coming from a stated atheist who dislikes organized religion, I believe this would be a textbook case of the pot calling the kettle black. The Evil Spartan (talk) 20:08, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  why are you continuing your personal attacks? You are using 'atheist' as a pejorative term? Why has being an atheist have anything to do with a personal agenda against you. Please stop the personal attacks. Vexorg (talk) 20:18, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not responding to the above other than to state that I did nothing of what you claim; I'm not upping the approbium. The Evil Spartan (talk) 20:26, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

text:  You've done exactly what I claim. Your words..."despite how much you've decided you hate America" . Denying it is rather pointless considering everything is archived.Vexorg (talk) 20:48, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Fine, I've struck the hating America comment; happy now? The Evil Spartan (talk) 21:27, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Offensive remarks by [[User:The Evil Spartan|The Evil Spartan]] noted 

message: Russia is over 70 percent, UK is over 70 percent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.224.156.129 (talk • contribs) 20:05, 1 January 2009
:We need a reliable source or we cannot add any such claim. - SummerPhD (talk) 20:35, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:   38-80 percent Christian is wrong 

message: This edit (Summary: Undid revision 287182394 by Wtmitchell (talk) This is the population of the country, and by all sources its not 12.000). My undone edit was a mistaken revision of an earlier edit, was indeed an error—I apparently somehow mistook the Population column as a count or estimate of the number of Christians. The cited supporting source does support the 12,000 figure, which is approximately .05% of the population figure of about 23 million. Since the reversion of my error was done by an anon without a talk page, I'm acknowledging my error here. I note that the 23,301,725 figure gives for population is unsupported and that the current CIA World Factbook page on North Korea] says "22,665,345 (July 2009 est.)." I haven't changed the figure in the article, thinking that a figure disclaimed as "(July 2009 est.)" might look dodgy as of the current May of 2009 date. 12,000 Christians would be roughly .05% of either population figure. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 20:02, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  North Korea 

message: I've noticed that this article presents info from the CIA Factbook in some cases and omits it in other cases. Nationmaster.com collects this info and presents it in a convenient format here and here. I'm thinking about making a pass through the article and adding that info to the article. I've done a few entries below to show what this would look like:
Region
Country
Population
% Christian
Middle East</TD>
Christianity in Afghanistan</TD>
31,889,923
<1%The World Factbook, (2007), Field Listing - Religions Accessed 30 June 2008.
Balkans</TD>
Christianity in Albania</TD>
3,600,523
30% (approx.) 
10% (Catholic).
North Africa</TD>
Christianity in Algeria</TD>
33,333,216
<1% 
Western Europe</TD>
Christianity in Andorra</TD>
71,822
Predominately Catholic 
Southern Africa</TD>
Christianity in Angola</TD>
12,263,596
53% (1998 est.) 
53% (10% Protestant, 38%Catholic).
Caribbean</TD>
Christianity in Anguilla</TD>
13,677
90.5+%(2001 census)
50.2% (30.2% Protestant, 20% Catholic)
South America</TD>
Christianity in Argentina</TD>
40,301,927
94+% 
94% (2% Protestant, 92% Catholic)
Caucasus</TD>
Christianity in Armenia</TD>
2,971,650
98.7% 
Oceania</TD>
Christianity in Australia</TD>
20,434,176
64%(2006 census)
Central Europe</TD>
Christianity in Austria</TD>
8,199,783
78.3+% (2001 census)
76.5% (4.7% Protestant, 72.3% Catholic)
;References
::: Adding such info into the table  would confuse the users.  Breaking up the statistics by different Christian denomination can be done, but in separate article (new?), such as Christian Demographics or something like it. This article gives an idea about the total number of Christians not number by the denomination. 
* In regards to the references and CIA FACTBOOK it is a reliable source, and replacing it with other wouldn't give any advantage to the readers (i don't know much about Nationmaster but I guess that they take part of their info from the CIA factbook?). The table is already messed up with all these phrases (i.e Predominately,  about etc)  instead of numbers, which are supposed to be there, adding even more text would make it extremely hard to read.  Andreyx109 (talk) 21:38, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The pages at those nationmaster links I provided above say, "SOURCE: World Factbook, 22 August 2006". The advantage from an editing viewpoint is that the info is provided in a format which is much more convenient than the factbook format to a WP editor editing an article covering numerous countries. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 00:50, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thinking about adding info to the article 

message: I've made the following changes:
* Moved some notes and comments (others will follow) from within the tables to the footnotes.
* Updated countries which didn't have information on % of Christians, with available data from CIA factbook, I will continue working on it. I don’t think that “predominantly” or “nominal” is good enough when the actual percentage is available.
* I  also propose to remove “<” “>” “+” symbols as they don’t clarify anything in most of the cases. I agree we can leave them in some cases, but its seems ridiculous when all of them are used within one percentage field.
Please if you want to add a comment to the available statistics do it as a footnote, and don't insert it into the percentage field, it messes up the table.
Thank you Andreyx109 (talk) 22:55, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think we should also include similar/same to Islam_by_country sentence before the statistics, it should be something like this (taken from Islam by Country):
Note: Population statistics by religious affiliations, are based upon statistical science and are subject toobservational error (technically referred to as estimates). Likewise, partisans may seek to bias the estimates. Most of the percentage of Christian population of each country was taken from the US State Department's International Religious Freedom Report, the CIA World Factbook, and Adherents.com.
Andreyx109 (talk) 20:59, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  I am trying to make sure that each % figure has two references. That would make all the numbers more reliable and correct. Andreyx109 (talk) 17:44, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You might take a look at my suggestions in the #Thinking about adding info to the article section above. I never got around to following through on that, and I doubt that I will get back to it, though it still strikes me as a good idea. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 01:49, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Wtmitchell, it is certainly a good idea, however i think that breaking up the % of Christian per country by denominations worth a separate page. I feel like that this page gives a rough estimate on a total number of Christians regardless of their denomination, however we can include a link at the top of the table to the newly created page Christian demographics and in that page we can break up percentage for the major Christian denomination as per country, thats what they have done inIslam by Country and i think it works pretty well, let me know what you think. Andreyx109 (talk) 15:49, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The reason that I broke it up is that the source I used (actually two sources, here and here, which organize the information very conveniently for a WP editor to work from) gives separate lists for Catholic and Protestant percentages, but no combined list for a Christian percentage. Since the source provided the figures separately, I mentioned the separately supported separate figures separately and then totaled them. Wtmitchell  (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 00:17, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some changes. 

message: Template: has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. Cybercobra (talk) 07:11, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Wikipedia:Templates for deletion|Templates for deletion]] nomination of [[:Template:{{ucfirst:Lists of countries}}]] 

message: I suggest that the sects per country map be deleted or replaced as it does not accurately show Country's main Christian religions. Australia is NOT a predominately protestant country. I suggest using a map with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Worldreligion.png statistics
:Hmmm... As I interpret it, the map shows Australia as a Catholic/Protestant combination. The Christianity in Australia article says that as of 2006 it was 63.9% Christian: 18.7% Anglican, 25.8% Catholic, 19.3 % "Other Christian". The 2008 US State Dept. Religious Freedom Report says that according to the 2006 census the breakdown was 64% Christian, including 26% Roman Catholic, 19% Anglican, 19% other Christian. Both of those sources classify 40% of Australian Christians as Catholic. Wtmitchell  (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 02:35, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Suggested deletion

message: The number cited for the fraction of Christians of the Swedish population is, similar to the case for the Danish number made by Deleet above, vastly overstated.
It appears the CIA Factbook (the link to which, incidentally, is dead) has taken the sum of the number of people registered under any kind of Christian denomination, including the Protestant Church of Sweden, as the total number of true Christian believers in Sweden. Nothing could be further from the truth:
Until 1951, non-membership in the Church of Sweden was illegal for a Swedish subject. After that, membership came automatically with baptism, or simply being born to member parents - i.e., in the vast majority of cases, membership in the Church of Sweden had little to nothing to do with the faith of the member.
In its most recent (2000) survey (in Swedish), the "Svenska Institutet För Opinionsundersökningar " (SIFO) or "Swedish Institute for Opinion Surveys", arguably the world-wide greatest authority on any statistically measurable aspect of Sweden and the Swedes, found 8% of survey participants to identify "Jesus as their savior", out of 46% believing in any form of divine or supernatural, higher power.
These findings are entirely congruent with those of a recent Gallup poll, in which Sweden ranks as the second least religious country in the world, behind Estonia but ahead of Denmark at number three.
I think these references, which are as credible and recent as they are free of bias in either direction, make it clear that the fraction of 87% Christians of the population of Sweden cited by this article is entirely incorrect and grossly misleading.
Since this is my first major suggested edit as a member of Wikipedia, I will wait for a time to hear the counter-arguments, and will then adjust the number for Sweden. ErikRM (talk) 20:18, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: None of the sources you've pointed to talk about "the number of Christians in Sweden". We had this discussion before. Most of the reliable sources (cia, freedom report, etc) give more or less similar number, and thus we use their estimates in this article.Andreyx109 (talk) 13:19, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Wrong. The first source specifically determines the number of Swedish Christians as a fraction of the population, by a highly relevant and accurate statistical survey (download the PDF and read it, it's mainly numbers). The second source gives the fraction of the population for which any religion is "an important part of daily life", as approximately a factor of five lower than the supposed fraction of Swedish Christians cited by this article. The number of those labeling themselves as Christians is of course probably different, but isn't likely to be larger by that much. On the other hand, as I explained, the (now unavailable) CIA Factbook and other sources rather cites the number of people registered under a Christian denomination, which in the case of Sweden is an entirely different matter - that is, while arguably reliable, these sources simply do not measure the intended quantity. ErikRM (talk) 14:03, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Its not up to us to decide on who is considered to be a Christian and who is not. Our purpose here is obviously not to make a new definitions. Wikipedian community consider CIA Factbook and Religious Freedom report as a reliable sources. I don't know whether it is insane or not, (and I guess no one can make this sort of statement without providing evidence in support of such words) (is there an NPO case?). As for me as long as it recognized as a reliable source we have to agree. In addition to this we have to use the sources purpose of which is to answer the given question, the sources we have now are doing exactly this. The new proposed sources on other hand, can hardly answer the question on the number of Christians in Sweden, the main topic of these sources is different(!). Again, please note, we had this discussion before. Wikipedia is not the place for original research, if you don't agree with reliable sources we are using, then, well then you can challenge them directly.  CIA and the Religious Freedom report are the best sources available to us as of today, and I don’t see any reasons to doubt them. Andreyx109 (talk) 16:18, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The CIA Factbook and the RF report are not published by recognized international organisations. They have an informative basis but they are totally distorted by a US POV. How can numerous polls made in the country itself - and which radically deny CIA or RF numbers - be less accurate than US organisations? The good thing is that they collected their information with the same manner, but it doesn't mean they are reliable. RF reports the numbers of a 2008 French Catholic Church "Guide" (65% catholics of whom 5% attending). The way the CIA presents religions for France reminds me of that little line put at the end of every US politician infobox here on Wikipedia: everyone has their religion. Can't I call it a bias? 82.240.207.81 (talk) 01:33, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you cite a reliable source supporting your assertion that the CIA Factbook and the RF report are totally distorted by a US POV, either in general or specifically in re Sweden? If you can, it would be appropriate to note this, citing that source, in the article. If reliable sources report results from numerous polls differing substantially from the figures reported by the CIA Factbook and the RF reports, the fact of those differing reports should be noted in the article, citing the reliable sources reporting them.  Wtmitchell  (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 23:12, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sweden 

message: I noticed that there was no mention of Somaliland, and no link to the Christianity in Somaliland page. Their numbers are small but still, I see other countries with a less than 1 percent of the population on the list. Any thoughts? I should note that according to the List of states with limited recognition page it is not listed as having any status. Does this qualify for inclusion, or has this issue been addressed in the past? Outback the koala (talk) 05:51, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Having received no reply, and finding consensus on another talk page, I will begin to include all states with limited recognition to the list. Outback the koala (talk) 06:38, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inclusion of Somaliland 

message: Two tables in a section "Claims to be the fastest-growing religion" indicating growth of major religions seems to be based on biased sources ( http://fastestgrowingreligion.com/index.html ), that is promoting one of the religions. Therefore appropriate disclaimer should be included (What's more - the data in this table is inconsistent with data provided in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country article).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.17.37.2 (talk) 08:41, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fastest-growing religion? 

message: The intro to the Christianity by country table says, "... Most of the percentage of Christian population of each country was taken from the US State Department's International Religious Freedom Report,the CIA World Factbook and Adherents.com."
For the UAE,
*The 2009 IRF Report for the UAE says,
::"The country has ... a population of 4.8 million, ... . According to the most recent Ministry of Economy census (2005), 76 percent of the total population is Muslim, 9 percent is Christian, and 15 percent is "other." According to unofficial figures, at least 15 percent of the resident population is Hindu, and 5 percent is Buddhist."
*The current CIA Factbook entry says,
::Population:4,798,491
::Religions: Muslim 96% (Shia 16%), other (includes Christian, Hindu) 4%
*Adherents.com - Religion by Location currently says,
Group   	Where               	Number of Adherents	% of total pop.	Number of congreg./churches/units	Number of countries	Year	Source                                                             	Quote/Notes
Catholic	United Arab Emirates	122,000            	5.28%          	5 units                          	–            	1995	1998 Catholic Almanac: Our Sunday Visitor: USA (1997), pg. 333-367.	Figures are as of Dec. 31, 1995. Number used for "congregations " is from number of Catholic parishes.
this edit popped up in my watchlist. It changed the table entry for the UAE from
Region     	Country                       	Total Population	% Christian	Christian total
Middle East	United Arab Emirates (details)	2,563,212       	10.0%      	256,321
to
Region     	Country                       	Total Population	% Christian	Christian total
Middle East	United Arab Emirates (details)	2,563,212       	15.0%      	384,482
Given the info in the cited supporting sources, I think that the UAE entry should read something like,
Region     	Country                       	Total Population                     	% Christian                 	Christian total
Middle East	United Arab Emirates (details)	4.8 Million4,798,491 (July 2009 est.)	9%< 4%5.28% (Catholic, 1995)	432,000< 200,000122,000 (Catholic, 1995)
with the article linking the,  and  flags (or others with a similar purpose) indicating which cited source supports what figures.
I just happened to look at the UAE because a change to that item popped up in my watchlist. I suspect that other entries in this table have similar problems. Wtmitchell  (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 01:57, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Those assertions by 99.236.221.124 may or may not have some measure of validity. Regardless, the lead sentence of Wikipedia's verifiability policy reads, "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth—whether readers can check that material in Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source, not whether editors think it is true." Wtmitchell  (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 22:24, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sourcing 

message: Many people have commented here that this page contradicts what this source or that source says, or what they consider local common knowledge.  But it's even more simple than that: the figures shown here contradict those in the majority of related pages in Wikipedia!  I haven't looked extensively recently, but in just a few minutes, I found that the pages for "Irreligion" "Irreligion in Canada" and "Religion in Canada" all contradict your findings.  Now, I read that you are simply quoting what the CIA factbook says, but maybe you need a better source!  Just because a source is considered reliable but the community does not make it academically responsible to use it if you doubt the reliability of the relevant information.  Now, if you wanted to title the page "CIA Factbook figures on Christianity by Country," then by all means, do it as you have.  Otherwise, you have a responsibility to find the most accurate information available.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.55.128.88 (talk) 16:44, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Contradiction to other pages doest mean that other pages contain correct information. Moreover it should not act as supporting evidence in favor of destroying the article which was so nicely done. On the same grounds it is possible to remove half of Wikipeida pages on religion, as most of them contradicts each other. I think the previous version should be returned, as it was most reliable and verifiable info an author can find, moreover, CIA Factbook is one of the most reliable source one can find, and there is no solid basis not to trust it.  Andreyx109 (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 13:38, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradiction to other Wikipedia pages 

message: The use of the dark blue background makes the percentages in the table unreadable.  Please try putting the percentages in a plain box, and next to that hopefully a little box with just the colored background keyed to the map colors.  That way the numbers are easy to read, and we get the instant visual recognition from the color coding.  Thanks.
CountMacula (talk) 04:53, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Percentages in the table are unreadable 

message: 'This Christian geography and statistics web page is copyright © 2000 by Adherents.com. Please address send comments, questions, etc. to webmaster@adherents.com. Webpage created 10 August 1999. Last updated 24 January 2000. '
It hasn't been updated since 2000 and the data is from 1990 studies.  It is now unreliable compared to Pew study of 2009 and ARIS study from Trinity College of 2008.  Alatari (talk) 16:21, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Alatari, if you look at the bottom of some pages you will see that the web-site is being updated, on some pages it says:  "Last modified 9 August 2007" - http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html, and so on. So there is no reason to call  Adherents.com  unreliable. Andreyx108  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andreyx108 (talk • contribs) 20:18, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

text: When you are talking about populations that are in flux; yes newer is more reliable. From WP:RS: Many Wikipedia articles rely on scholarly material. When available, academic and peer-reviewed publications, scholarly monographs, and textbooks are usually the most reliable sources. However, some scholarly material may be outdated, in competition with alternate theories, or controversial within the relevant field. Try to cite present scholarly consensus when available, recognizing that this is often absent. Reliable non-academic sources may also be used in articles about scholarly issues, particularly material from high-quality mainstream publications. Deciding which sources are appropriate depends on context. Material should be attributed in-text where sources disagree. Alatari (talk) 04:47, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adherents.com is out of date and now unreliable 

message: How can Sweden be more than 3/4 Christian when less than a quarter believe in God. Similar discrepancies exist in Denmark, United Kingdom, and Norway. Claiming that everyone who isn't atheist is Christian is highly suspect. Soxwon (talk) 04:04, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chart is highly inaccurate 

message: This article has greatly inflated the number of Christians in many countries. For example, Kazakhstan's 2009 census recorded 26% Christians, yet here it is saying it's 51%. And like a previous user said, many of these percentages directly contradict the percentages as stated in every other Wikipedia page. Many of these figures are taken from highly biased websites. I suggest these figures get revised because it won't make sense when someone sees that in the Albania article that around 30% or less are Christians, yet here in Christianity by country it's 35%. And it won't make sense when someone sees that in the Islam by country article that Eritrea is 97% Muslim, yet here in Christianity by country the percentage of Christians is at 6% (97% + 6% = >100%).
:With the new resource that can be corrected now.Alatari (talk) 11:44, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Honesty please? 

message: Any thoughts about using this as a reference for the country numbers?  Stats are from 2010. --NeilN talk to me 21:35, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: That is the new study the Pew contact mentioned would be out this year in my email to him.  I fully support it's use but am not sure User:Christendom2 and his sockpuppet User:Christendom3 was pulling from it and sourcing it reliably.  I reverted his work before seeing it.   I'll do some quick checking but I do not have much time to work on Wikipedia.  Alatari (talk) 11:06, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

text: His numbers were inflated and NOT supported by this reliable source so I'll keep my revert because we have to add the correct numbers again anyway.   The source says 2.18 billion people are Christians and not 2.33 like he added so he's wrong everywhere. Alatari (talk) 11:09, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  New consistent source 

message: I noticed a few countries are missing: St Kitts-Nevis, St Lucia, St Vincent, Kiribati and Nauru. Are there no statistics for these countries? Samoa, Marshall Islands and Tuvalu aren't in the main table either, but do appear in the Oceania top ten table at the bottom, even if the two figures given for Samoa don't match. 
The table is titled Sovereign States, but lists many places that aren't sovereign states, like Anguilla, American Samoa, Aruba etc. These are colonies or dependencies or territories, not sovereign states. 
The figures for Lebanon seem very high (63%). The wikipedia page Demographics of Lebanon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Lebanon says that estimates range from 39% (CIA factbook) to 63% (source given on that page is a NY Times article which actually says 35%), so I don't really know where the 63% comes from. 
In the top ten Oceania table, it lists US Virgin Islands. That's a US territory in the Caribbean, why is it in this list?
Also, some of the figures and percentages in the main table don't correspond with figures given in the smaller tables below. A few examples:
Kazakhstan: main table 8,152,000 and 51%, Asia top ten table 4,214,232 and 26.6%.
Armenia: main table 98.7%, Asia top ten table 100%.
South Korea: main table 15,734,000 and 33.2%, Asia top ten table two different figures are given, 16,534,000 and 33.4%, and 14,534,000 and 29.2%. 
Vatican City: all tables agree on 100%, but the population figures are different. Main table says 2,800, top ten Europe says 800 (more likely), and the table giving Christian population from countries with 100% says 550 for 2 countries. 
I understand that it's difficult to find a reliable source for religious statistics, but surely the figures need to be consistent within the same page. 
Zolkhawaja (talk) 18:25, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing countries and contradicting figures 

message: I started updating the table with the top ten countries with the reference .  On page 71 of the new resource starts the complete list of countries.  Earlier in the resource are various tables to update the rest of the page.  It's a lot of work to update the article with these new data and so to show what work has been done I am adding the reference behind each entry completed.  If it has a <4> behind it you know it's correct with the new resource.  Alatari (talk) 11:48, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pew Research December 2011 Global Christianity resource is out! 

message: Ok guys, I am french and official statistics state there are nomore than 45-50% of the population who is christian. This is even stated in the "detail article" related to the figure. So as we are 65 000 000 of people, 50%*65000000 can never match 54000000 of christians.So I guess you can divide all figures by two, and for each religion, which is a great newsKlinfran (talk) 00:17, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  All wrong 

message: Right now, the list says "well, the data came from one of a dozen sources." That's not good enough; every single percentage is uncited. Worse, it's original research; how this data was measured varies wildly, and combining various sources falsely implies that data from one source can be casually compared with data from another source, particularly if you're not mentioning sources.--Prosfilaes (talk) 23:12, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The overall chart is taken from the 2012 Pew research study on global religion and is cited in the total as citation (4).  If there are differing sources they are added after each entry.  Each entry has a details link to the countries article where other sources can be found.  The percentages are taken from the Pew article which lists a total population and a population for each columns entry (ie, Orthodox, Protestant, Catholic) and simple percentages is not OR as long as it's done exactly from the source and not mistaken.  Alatari (talk) 04:10, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Serious citation and OR problems 

message: Canada's number is way off. The total population is 35 million of which 77% are estimated to be Christian at most. [The chart claims 33 million Christians].
China's percentage is incorrect. It is listed at "1,4" but even 1.4% seems low.
However, admit that getting good numbers must be difficult, especially in China.
--174.7.56.10 (talk) 20:46, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Canada and China 

message: Source (30) points to a page of ISTAT (Italian official statistics agency) that doesn't report the data given in the wiki article. Actually, nowhere in the Italian census forms appears a box for detailing one's own religion.
Navigating from that point, though, one can view the "Indicatori demografici" page at http://dati.istat.it/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=DCIS_INDDEMOG1&Lang=  and browse it for Partecipazione Sociale->Pratica Religiosa->Frequenza luogo di culto (Worship place attendancy), which gives a 19.2% of the population aged 6+ as NEVER attending to any religious worship place. Since 100% - 19.2% is 80.8%, the data given in the article for a prevalence of Christianity in Italy greater than 90% appears as totally ungrounded.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.64.45.199 (talk) 14:10, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The PEW study says Italy is 85% Christian and gets it's information from: "Total estimate based on 2005 World Values Survey, adjusted to account for underrepresented religious groups; tradition estimates based on 2010 World Religion Database".  The istat source is for the total Italian population only.  Alatari (talk) 04:14, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

text: I didn't create the PEW source and can not question their data gathering.  They are a reliable source.  If you have another reliable source that has differing information on the number of Christians in Italy then provide it. Alatari (talk) 00:14, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Italian data, not consistent with quoted source, contradicts actual ISTAT data 

message: Hi the page is locked so i can't edit this. France is simply missing one zero at the end of it's number of christians. This is making it appear in the wrong rank in the list. It is a simple error for someone to correct by adding the extra zero at the end. Thanks. Have a good day.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.150.8.25 (talk) 18:46, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Done.  Thanks for catching it.  Alatari (talk) 00:11, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  France number of christians is missing a zero. 

message: What's the point of GDP/Capita PPP World Bank 2012 in the population table?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.229.119.114 (talk) 04:57, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  GDP/Capita PPP World Bank 2012 

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message: The Note in the By country section tells us "The proportion of Christians is based on the proportion of the population in each country who are members of a Christian denomination or who identify themselves as Christian." 
 	
Firstly, I imagine the clumsily repeated word "proportion" should be "number". I intend to fix it.
 	
Secondly, as an Australian, I can say that the number shown for my country cannot be members of denominations. That would be a much lower figure. So it must be from what people say on the national census. I can broadly accept that, but given that parents fill in the census form on behalf of their children, the figure must include children whose parents declared them to be Christian. That is not the same as those "who identify themselves as Christian". Those kids are people who someone else has declared to be Christian. They haven't had a say. (How many other countries does that apply to?) And there would be several million of them. The statement in the article is wrong. I'm not sure how to fix it. But it must be fixed. HiLo48 (talk) 08:57, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Two months and no response. It seems that maintaining the big number for how many claimed Christians there are is more important to the editors of this article than having it tell the truth. Or doesn't anyone look at the Talk page? HiLo48 (talk) 07:19, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: BUMP!! Can we make this article better please? HiLo48 (talk) 00:08, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'm following this page and I see your issue. However there are only a few countries, which limit the surveys to 15+ citizens, e.g. Switzerland. All others count baptized church members of any age or scale the poll data up to the whole population. At least, this fact should be mentioned in the article. --Nillurcheier (talk) 07:21, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proportion? And children. 

message: Why on Earth is Gross Domestic Product included in the table here? I don't think I've ever seen a more out of place statistic in my life.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.80.189.236 (talk) 22:13, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Excellent question. A search shows that the only place the term "GDP" is used is in the heading of that column of the table. I suspect it arose from some attempt, perhaps in the original source of the data, to link religious belief (or lack of) with wealth. But it hasn't made it into the article. I would agree with getting rid of it. HiLo48 (talk) 22:41, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  GDP? 

message: why is Palestine listed as non recognized? and why its it listed outside the UN?
Kawhilaugh42 (talk) 23:08, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  inquiry 

message: The Oceania statistics claim that 73.3% of the population is Christian, which is impressive considering that the two most populous cited countries (Australia at 43.9% and New Zealand at 37.0%, both using official statistics) have Christianity as a minority (and those two countries are two of the three most populous countries in Oceania). The citation of Oceania points to a Wayback link to https://web.archive.org/web/20130815184022/http://wwwgordonconwell.com/netcommunity/CSGCResources/ChristianityinitsGlobalContext.pdf . However, the top level domain of this is a Taikwondo website. This PDF is also highly inaccurate, claiming 65.6% Christian membership in Australia/New Zealand in 2020 [67.3% in Australia, 57.2% in New Zealand]. The PDF does not seem to provide any citations for those statistics, and no explanation why they wildly differ from the official New Zealand 2018 census results (or even the 2013 census results which seem to report a number closer to 47.7% [ https://nzdotstat.stats.govt.nz/wbos/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=TABLECODE8071 ] ) 114.23.150.43 (talk) 06:39, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  The statistics for the Oceania collated results are referenced by a Taekwondo site of all things!? 

message: The UK is no longer a majority Christian country. Latest 2021 census figures shows only 46% of people consider themselves Christian in the UK. The UK census figures are a joke anyway, as less than 10% of people actually get their children christened in the UK and the vast majority of those people are not even practicing Christians. A lot of them don't even believe in any religion at all. So the figures in this article are highly suspect in the first instance as depending on the exact source for each country they may have zero correlation to the actual religious beliefs of the population. If the UK is anything to go by probably the true Christian population of the world is far far lower than this article would have people believe. 94.175.102.211 (talk) 23:43, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Out of date (and dubious validity) figures

message: — Assignment last updated by Ange Berenice (talk) 17:39, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: Introduction to Community Economic and Social Development II