Talk:Jay Johnston

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*Added archive https://archive.is/20130117193145/http://benkharakh.com/jay_johnston to http://benkharakh.com/jay_johnston
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Earlier today, the FBI published a tweet seeking information on an as-of-yet unidentified attendee of the recent U.S Capitol Riots. https://twitter.com/FBI/status/1367595894829436932
Several have alleged in the comments and elsewhere on social media that this is Jay Johnston. While no one associated with Mr. Johnston has publicly commented on the matter, some have alleged that they've been in contact with former coworkers on projects like Mr. Show, who've allegedly confirmed the details. 
What to do? Is this noteworthy information while speculation, or after confirmation? Lython73 (talk) 04:57, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: At this point several people who are connected to him have confirmed it was him, including Tim Heidecker. Unfortunately tweets are not sufficient sources/references. Until the allegations are published in a reasonable news source so as to be linked in a reference, it should be left out of the article. But at this point there's no question it was him. CouplandForever (talk) 14:42, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Tim Heidecker is saying he's learned through reliable sources that it was in deed him https://twitter.com/timheidecker/status/1367712590969794570?s=20  AmbientMorality (talk) 15:43, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Then again... https://twitter.com/timheidecker/status/1367885317676490753 AmbientMorality (talk) 17:40, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Snopes has a page on it https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/jay-johnston-capitol-riots/ AmbientMorality (talk) 17:42, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Publishing an unsubstantiated allegation of potentially criminal conduct is a pretty clear violation of WP:BLP, and linking to the Snopes article doesn't get around that. Dyrnych (talk) 04:27, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  This was my initial concern. Thanks for the clarification. Ideally there will be something more clear in the coming weeks. Lython73 (talk) 18:12, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Capitol Riots Allegation 

message: Most of the "Life and Career" section, dealing with Johnston's post-Mr Show work, has been deleted. Except perhaps for the paragraph about "evergreen" roles, it seems like that material was relevant by the standards of most articles on actors. That he had a role as Jimmy Pesto on Bob's Burgers certainly seems relevant, for instance. Mwphil (talk) 00:05, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added his career information back in, and added references using IMDB. --PseudoChron (talk) 15:42, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Per WP:IMDB, that website should not be used for factual claims, especially for WP:BLP info. I have therefore reverted the edit. Grayfell (talk) 19:16, 3 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Life and Career 

message: Questioning inclusion and lack of context of the entry concerning Johnston's appearance on Gavin McInnes's show. This entry may imply a connection to that group. McInnes had not founded the Proud Boys at the time of Johnston's appearance and several of Johnston's castmates and peers of various political views appeared on his shows as he had connections in the entertainment business. Johnston's segment in the 2015 episode was non political. 2603:8001:BD01:7DFE:44:2896:1655:B16E (talk) 03:38, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: That's valid. I myself have been questioning the notability of it. I'll remove it for now. --Pokelova (talk) 05:20, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  misleading Proud Boys connection? 

message: I stand by my revert and continue to believe it is a BLP violation. Specifically WP:BLPLEAD, which states that the lead should be reflective of the entire article, and that well-publicized recent events should be kept in historical perspective. The lead currently reads as if his being arrested is equally important to his acting work, which does not accurately reflect the article. (I realize it's just one sentence, but it's a short lead.) Plus this is something that just happenedwe're far from being able to tell if this will end up being a defining characteristic of Johnston's career, to the point that it should take up nearly as much space in the lead as his acting work. Anyone coming to the article for information about his arrest can easily find the Controversies section, and it's quite a short article as it is; we're not exactly hiding it. WPscatter t/c 05:51, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi , I appreciate you taking the time to start a discussion. I don't think it's crystal balling, the Capitol attack was nearly two and a half years ago, Johnston was fired from Bob's Burgers and hasn't had any role to speak of. I don't believe the lead should be set in stone, but I think we should mention something in regards to his political leanings, actions and subsequent arrest. Thoughts? soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 06:23, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: I know the raid was a couple years ago but the arrest was yesterday. To that point, I'm going to reword it so that it's more about his involvement itself. Being fired from Bob's Burgers due to it is certainly a good point in favor of it being in the lead. If you can find RS that say he is unable to find work due to his participation in Jan 6th then that strengthens it even further. WPscatter t/c 16:21, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jan 6th arrest in lead 

message: These videos are fabricated and have no place on this page. 2600:1700:5516:4410:D68:775B:9ED:AE38 (talk) 06:25, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: All of these additions were made after Jay Johnston was arrested, and nothing more than altcensored.com videos that are obviously fake. 2600:1700:5516:4410:D68:775B:9ED:AE38 (talk) 06:27, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: You are an insane person. The videos were originally on Gavin's channel before he was banned on YouTube. I think Gavin being friends with multiple people affiliated with Mr. Show is something of note. The video of David and Gavin in China was a VIce-produced video. You vandalized this page to have Jay's profession be "traitor". Please seek a psychiatric doctor. Stoverfan (talk) 07:19, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

text: While I don't necessarily agree that the videos are fabricated outright, you're correct that altCensored is a poor source and I've removed the claims from the page. Normally this type of thing constitutes edit warring but such claims violate our biographies of living persons policy so I thought it pertinent to remove them immediately.  please see this conversation and my edit summary re: why I reverted your revert. WPscatter t/c 16:27, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: They aren't fabricated. I would gladly give better sources if I could, but Gavin has been pretty much scrubbed from the internet after forming the Proud Boys. To call the videos "deepfake" is lunacy from somebody that heard that term once and thinks they know what it means. Stoverfan (talk) 07:23, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: @Stoverfan, Youtube is still a poor source. Even if the videos were verifiable to originally have come from Gavin himself (which they are not), looking at a Youtube video and saying "see? they're friends!" is borderline original research and probably undue for inclusion in the article to begin with. WPscatter t/c 13:52, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: They are from Gavin himself. They're videos where both David and Bob are physically with Gavin. They were from Gavin's YouTube channel. Besides that, if it's not considered valid enough to be in the article, fine, but they aren't fake videos, or "deepfaked", which is just delusional. I remember them being on YouTube before Gavin got banned, and it's not exactly like David and Bob are going to point out they were friends with him these days, so it's hard to have a more definitive source. However, I do think other Mr. Show actors being friends with Gavin shows that Jay was not an outlier, and may have met Gavin through Bob and David. A lot of celebrities in the 2000s/early 2010s were friendly with Gavin before his far-right turn. Stoverfan (talk) 13:56, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gavin McInnes video of David Cross and Bob Odenkirk 

message: The current section titled "Far-right politics" contains one sentence about Johnston's interview with McInnes and one paragraph about Johnston's alleged participation in the Capitol Attack. As has already been pointed out in this talk section, the interview with McInnes didn't discuss politics. Using it to assert Johnston is far-right politically is specious, doubly so when you consider that McInnes has also interviewed people who are verifiably not far-right or even right-leaning. So I will be removing the sentence about the interview. With its removal, the entire "Far-right politics" section is about Johnston's alleged participation in the Capitol Attack. As such, it makes sense to rename the section so it's about the Capitol Attack. This change will retain the relevant information without making positive assertions as to Johnston's political leanings based on weak evidence. I think this change will give the article a more neutral point of view.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:5B0:2C56:A818:301F:85F7:9BC4:8A3A (talk) 15:34, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of "Far-Right Politics"