Talk:Face of Mankind

message: Someone needs to change the games genre. It is not a MMORPG anymore, it is now a MMOG.  It doesn't contain any RP. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.4.205.110 (talk • contribs) 04:23, October 13, 2006
:That seems strange; though I don't actively play anymore, and haven't for some time, it seemed to me as if the RPG element was something important that differentiated FoM from other MMOFPS games on the market. What do you mean by "it doesn't contain any RP", exactly?Ourai т с 12:41, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There is quite a bit MM about it. The fact that people play it online at the same time and interact in real time the way they do (did, at least, when I played) makes it MM. Ourai т с 06:09, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Genre

message: There is some confusion about the producer of this game at this time. Evolved Games is now listing FoM as one of its titles. OJOM has been the producer (since release). It is not known what this means, and there has been no official announcement.
--SupermanX 21:06, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Publisher 

message: I have added a small section on game content, due to common misunderstandings about what type of content is available in this game. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by SupermanX (talk • contribs) 01:53, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Game Content 

message: I have added sections to the talk page to organize it some. Please use them.
--Spiffydudex 15:58, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  FoM General 

message: OK, I hope to have done something useful. The faction descriptions were almost literal copy and pastes of the Story Chronicles directly from the Face of Mankind webpage. Besides probably being slightly illegal, it is far too much content for a page. The information was redundant and provided very unclear information as to how the factions work in the actual gameplay. I removed most of the descriptions and condensed the rest, keeping it at one to two paragraphs per faction, one of history and one of actual effects. Frankly, I don't think anyone would care about what was lost. They can read them for themselves at the Face of Mankind page for more information.
This happens to be my first major edit of a Wikipedia article, and so I may or may not have done what was called for; still, I think it was needed--the article was a veritable eyesore. Ourai 01:59, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Faction 

message: I have updated the text for CMG, and made minor modifcations for EC and VI.
SupermanX 03:50, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Corporations 

message: I have added some information on mining/refining/production.
SupermanX 03:50, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Mining still needs to be added within the economy section, if anyone knows the first thing about it...  ◄ИΞШSΜΛЯΞ► 03:51, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Economy 

message: I have cleaned up and also edited and added to some of the Departments.--Spiffydudex 15:58, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This entire section is vanity and cruft.  Cack up your own webshite.  BTW, welcome to wikipedia.  ◄ИΞШSΜΛЯΞ► 04:19, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Cells and Departments 

message: Just an Idea mabey we could make a table with the common terms in them, just to shorten the page length some. Also do the same to the Cells and Clan section.
--SPIFF 15:50, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Common Terms 

message: Please, keep the  tag in the article (and restore it if someone deletes it) as long as the tone of the article isn't fixed. Currently, the article reads as an informal entry, with a lot of second person sentences ("you", "your", etc). Please convert that to a neutral or third person sentence, so that the article can be considered formal. In example, a paragraph that reads:
UC: Universal credits. These credits are the currency of the game, which are used to buy items for your character. UC are earned by doing missions or through the extensive trading system.
should be transformed into
UC: Universal credits. These credits are the currency of the game, which are used to buy items for /a character/characters/the player's character/etc. UC are earned by doing missions or through the extensive trading system.
(choosing any of those, or another formal wording). Thank you. -- ReyBrujo 03:19, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inappropriate person 

message: Face of Mankind is made using the JUPITER ENGINE. I keep trying to change it from Talon, but somebody keeps changing it back. I also keep adding several useful terms to the list, such as FL, R#, Stungank, but they get removed aswell. As does my section on Subscriptions, which outlines that there is no trial and also tells the reader how much it costs. Dyson 20:13, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Game Engine 

message: Just a small point: In the introduction its states the game is "played from either a First Person or Third Person viewpoint".
This is not strictly true, as a cinematic camera can also be used.
Perhaps this rather superflous comment can either be removed entirely or replaced with: "can be played from a variety of camera angles".  Scotty Will 00:54, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Small Issue in Introduction

message: This article is topsy-turvy. There are large sections on plot and other in-universe information, whilst the content that actually needs writing about is limited to external links to interviews and reviews. The article needs gutting, per WP:Writing about fiction, perhaps one paragraph on the plot and the interview/reviews used as citations for rewriting the gameplay sections, and a critical reaction section. There should be enough references to create a development history section, too. Marasmusine 08:45, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah. I think the article needs to be stubbified, or significantly cut down. --TheSeer (TalkˑContribs) 08:46, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

text: *Decrufted and despammed. Needs copy writing on remaining content. --TheSeer (TalkˑContribs) 08:57, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've done some copyediting. I'm removing the "Neutrality" tag, since I think I got the pro-FoM language out or reworded. Ourai тʃс 03:27, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Is there any way you can keep that in?  It seemed to me to be the game's best claim to notability.  If you've searched high and low for that and no reliable source said it, though, it should indeed go.  Jclemens (talk) 18:13, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I will keep on searching but I think Face of Mankind could use the fact it's one of few MMO's with a first person, twitch style of play. I think we could probably find relevant outside sources for this. --7thPegasus (talk) 05:06, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Rewrite

message: :Image:Fom gameplay.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 06:12, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Fom gameplay.jpg

message: One reference about the rebirth hardly constitutes being "partially referenced".
::The review can also be used as references. Unfortunately, one is in german, a language I can't speak, while the other is a little shallow. There are also other references such as the news archives here. The article needs cleanup by people familiar with the material, hence the change to a cleanup tag. Notability/verifiability is already established from the reviews. Gazimoff WriteRead 16:42, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Partially references? 

message: The game may be defunct as the article stands, but it's being remade. scatman839 (talk) 01:47, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That may be so, but it doesn't address cleanup tags for notability and sourcing that have been on the article for a year.  I won't prod anything that's had those less than six months, and welcome any attempt to address those deficiencies. Jclemens (talk) 01:52, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Given the game's status as being remade, it seems appropriate to stub the article instead of deletion. It's not wholly defunct, after all. Ourai тʃс 03:06, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I only see one sentence that seems to assert notability in the entire article, and that is unsourced.  What about a potential future relaunch would make this a notable game?  Player base? Some unique feature?  Attention in the media?  I would really feel more comfortable about keeping this if someone, anyone, familiar with the game could deal with the notability and verifiability issues. If anyone wants to give it a shot, please do so and remove the prod templates. Jclemens (talk) 03:11, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If you want to delete good information which will give people a better idea about what the remake will be like, go ahead and stub it, dickheads.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.185.132.42 (talk) 08:09, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia is not a place to advertize games in development.  It's an encyclopedia.  Please focus your objection on why any of this should be included in an encyclopedia. Jclemens (talk) 15:20, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

text: 7thPegasus, your arguments are fine, but not really on point:  Notability is not temporary agrees with your point; my contention, however, is that notability for this article was never established, by Reliable Sources.  One of the two independant links allows anyone to add a game listing.  The other is a review on a German website of unknown reliability.  If we can't find any external references to it in reliable media, it is not notable.  How can you help this article overcome that hurdle? If so, it's a guaranteed keeper. Jclemens (talk) 15:45, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

text: Great job so far--keep it up and we can remove the cleanup tags from the page once more things are sourced. Jclemens (talk) 17:25, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps if you  pointed out what needs sourced scatman839 (talk) 21:07, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The only specific claim that I believed needed to be sourced was "It is also the first game of its kind to use a player-generated mission system." which 7thPegasus has indicated he hasn't yet found a source for.  Beyond that, it needs independent, non-fan-generated external references to FoM.  Who noticed it?  Why did they notice it?  Did it make an impression on anyone--reviewer? Sociologist? Another game designer?  Those are the sorts of questions to which any reliably sourced answer will improve notability. Jclemens (talk) 21:43, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Myself and several other contributors have non-fan references from several third party websites. Is it a matter of adding them to the External Links section? Added two. --7thPegasus (talk) 05:10, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's more progress--as such, I toned down the cleanup tags to reflect your progress so far.  What you can do next is look at WP:FOOT for directions on how to make inline citations.  DartMUD and Whedonesque.com are a couple of articles that I improved by adding footnotes--feel free to look at them for examples, if you need 'em, and ask me followup questions.  On a personal note, it's kind of a sad duty to tag things as candidates for deletion, but everyone wins when a knowledgeable and enthusiastic editor steps forward to fix the issues--a much better outcome overall than deleting things. Jclemens (talk) 05:57, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I will give the links you gave a look. But I do agree that it's sad to delete things, however if the statement cannot be backed up with sufficient sourcing there isn't really a choice is there. Cheers again. --7thPegasus (talk) 06:00, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Did the inline refs, some need descriptions scatman839 (talk) 16:04, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

text: Heh.  Good call to delete it, but I'm not sure it merited preservation here.  The page history will keep track of the fact that it existed at one time. Jclemens (talk) 06:56, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Just thought I'd leave it for posterity. Haha. I'll remove it, didn't consider the page history. --7thPegasus (talk) 06:59, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

text: Notability - it has none. Player base very small and it is not common knowledge, advertised or generally heard of. A major industry forum I frequent had no clue of it and neither did I until a friend who play side-line games told me of it. I'd say that the article is negligible work and that this so-called MMO is as well. If none notice it save its own zealot fans then should AFD. 62.219.148.12 (talk) 19:40, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Imho, there are plenty of games out there that have less notability tahn Face of Mankind. While that's not a valid argument, I think any game that has over 12,000 forum users (whether they are still active or not--activity is not an indicator of notability, and if so, perhaps we should delete articles like Continental Army) should be considered notable enough for mention on Wikipedia. This doesn't even include previous users for the far older versions of FoM.Warbirdadmiral (talk) 17:19, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deletion 

message: For references and such like, the older dev blogs are stored here.  scatman839 (talk) 15:36, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Development Diaries 

message: Since the official title is Face of Mankind: Rebirth, why not move it there, or create a new article and revert the article here to chronicle what the game was like.scatman839 (talk) 15:40, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I see no reason anyone would oppose this, but it might make sense to leave a redirect from this name to that. Jclemens (talk) 15:46, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I see no reason why not. --7thPegasus (talk) 06:06, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well someone do it, I don't know how. scatman839 (talk) 15:35, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

text: Page moved to Face of Mankind: Rebirth, and redirects fixed appropriately (only two of them). I'll get on fixing the lead so the page reads like it's about a game called "Face of Mankind: Rebirth" (which it is, at this point in the game's development) instead of Face of Mankind. Ourai тʃс 21:09, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rename/move article 

message: UTI (Universal Tax Incorporation) is a governemant run organisation in charge of collecting the Universal Tax which is used for the expansion and security of the universe. The UTI is run by debt to society and Magnum Opus. If you are interested in becoming a tax collector please apply ingame ((when released)). Note tax paying is obligatory by all civilians. TAX EVADERS WILL BE SHOT ON SIGHT. Tax must be paid every 6 months with hefty fines for late payers. Our systems carry the DNA of every civilian in the universe so theres no escape for tax evaders. Payments must be paid to [UTI]debt to society or [UTI]Magnum Opus. Other tax collectors will be added at a later date.
Tax Types:
*Basic Tax - basic tax is to be paid by all civilians
*Movement Tax - movement tax is an optional tax which allows you to move around in the universe. Without this tax you must stand perfectly still.
*Market Terminal Tax - Allows use of the market terminals.
*Production Terminal Tax - Allows use of the production terminal.
*Speaking Tax - Allows use of your voice box. (talking in your sleep is a fineable offence without this tax)
*Bundle Tax - Includes all the above tax.
Tax prices will be announced at a later date.
Note all employees of the UTI are exempt from paying tax.
Signed, Managing Directors, debt to society and Magnum Opus 
:This looks pretty in-universe to me.  Can anyone provide a context for what this is and why it should go into this article?  Unless FoM:R has been released, it's either out-of-date or WP:CRYSTAL, right? Jclemens (talk) 22:52, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Whatever it is it's totally useless, some clan shit, no need for it to be in the article as it has nothing to do with the actual game scatman839 (talk) 21:00, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Please look at WP:NOTMANUAL and WP:PLOT.  The material seems completely useless to those not already playing the game, and as such, clearly belongs on a game website, rather than Wikipedia. Jclemens (talk) 20:14, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: http://forum.fomplanet.com/member.php?u=223 That's where it's coming from, nothing to do with anything else other than those two people, whatever they're writing is fiction since the game isn't out yet, not to mention that there have been no announcements for any tax related crap by DPS scatman839 (talk) 15:45, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, then I'm going to keep removing it from the article without further comment if it reappears, until consensus changes here. Jclemens (talk) 17:56, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed from article 

message: http://www.fomportal.com/
So, I would think for this article, that the page should possibly be reverted to an earlier, just face of mankind article, since rebirth never even made it out, with a mention of rebirth below it.
scatman839 (talk) 16:15, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, I think it really just needs to be deleted, then.  I do not think that reviews for a game that no longer exists meet WP:N. Jclemens (talk) 16:23, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm, how about creating a new DPS page then and a nanoverse page when there's more info available? scatman839 (talk) 16:41, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If we did that, each article should stand on its own and not violate WP:CRYSTAL.  Making a decision on the fate of this article is not an urgent matter, I see no reason to put it to AfD immediately, given the history behind it. Let's think it through here and agree on the best course of action, rather than rushing into a process. Jclemens (talk) 16:52, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well many cancelled games still have wikipedia articles, it could stay, and give mention in the mean time to the creation of a new game scatman839 (talk) 15:12, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem is that many cancelled games still have notability somehow, someway.  It's my belief that this one does not, but I think we should take the article through the AfD process.  I'll go ahead and nominate it if no one else wants to, with the intent of getting a wider audience involved in the article, and seeing what the larger community consensus is.  If the consensus is to keep it, I'm good with that, especially in terms of all the hard work that's gone into improving this article. If it's deleted, it will be deleted because it just doesn't belong in light of the cancellation, not because the article's editors were asleep on the job. Jclemens (talk) 22:22, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm all for an AFD. FoM is more notable than a lot of the adverarticles that get posted on Wikipedia, but I've been of the opinion that FoM really isn't notable enough for inclusion. But I haven't done that much looking into it I guess. --TheSeer (TalkˑContribs) 00:00, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: AfD opened.  See the main page for the link to it, and please feel free to participate. Jclemens (talk) 20:25, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

text: Don't forget to cite! --TheSeer (TalkˑContribs) 01:09, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cancellation and announcement of new game 

message: Please discuss contentious items on the talk page. Jclemens (talk) 06:56, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  semi-protected