Talk:Terminate with extreme prejudice

message: Can anyone attest that any military, U.S. or other, actually uses this term? 
If so, does anyone know whether its use pre-dates Apocalypse Now?
: 30 years in the Army, never heard it used outside of movies. 155.213.224.59 (talk) 16:35, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The United States Marine Corps. 1979. Parris Island. Is there any other way to kill?  Cut along the dotted line, like one of those small boxes of corn flakes when making the box a bowl.  That was the way it was explained. And twist.  Oorah. 2403:6200:8871:CC25:64E7:93C8:E13:5D10 (talk) 09:52, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

message: My recollection from the era is that the term "Terminated with extreme prejudice" first appeared in a New York Times article from Vietnam. It then quickly entered the popular parlance. I think I found the actual article in the NYT online archives, on the front page for Thursday, August 14, 1969. I've added it to our article as a reference. It's hard to establish that this is the first public use of the term, so I don't say that in our article. However the term was picked up in two more pieces in the Times over the next few days, suggesting its novelty: The Green Berets in a Strange Scenario, by James P. Sterba, 
August 17, 1969, Sunday The Week in Review, Page E3; and Observer: The Green Berets and a Question of Style, by Russell Baker 
August 21, 1969, Thursday Page 40. Does anyone have an earlier reference?--agr (talk) 21:05, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Reading through this talk page I'm left with the alarming suspicion that the actual solid credible reference was added last, and that for five years the article consisted of a list of quotes from Apocalypse Now, episodes of US crime shows, and The Blues Brothers, in which it doesn't even appear. -Ashley Pomeroy (talk) 21:26, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Original source?

message: This article describes the use of the term in the popular/media context, which seems to have originated (as the article describes) in the Vietnam war. However, the popular understanding that the term is an ironic reference to assassination is a simple misinterpretation of the phrase by a journalist who didn't understand what it meant and who published an entertaining explanation of it that was picked up and subsequently used elsewhere (most popularly in Apocalypse Now).
What the term actually means in the military context is much more prosaic, and basically the opposite of the popular meaning of "do whatever is necessary to kill X". To use "extreme prejudice" in terminating someone means to exercise a very high level of caution in making a positive identification of the target before killing them, and to ensure that there is no collateral damage. It would preclude, for example, attacking a convoy in which the target is believed to be traveling; in this example, a sniper would need to make a day-time sighting of the target and take him out before he enters his vehicle, but only if he could get a completely clear shot without risk of hitting anyone else.
Sadly, the popular definition of the phrase seems to drown out the actual technical definition on the Internet (if it's there at all), so I haven't amended the article. I suppose the phrase has taken on a popular meaning of its own so the current article can stand, but I'd like to see the actual meaning get included if anyone can find a citable source. Geoff NoNick (talk) 02:45, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: This doesn't make any sense. The word "prejudice" has a very clear definition and that definition is not "care" or "diligence" as implied by your explanation. Furthermore, the formal expression "terminate (or cancel) *without* prejudice" is used in contexts where something (such as a visa or a job application) is cancelled without preventing the affected individual from re-applying in the future. The euphemism "with extreme prejudice" is therefore clearly an ironic variation of this expression, because a dead person obviously can't re-apply for anything. 2001:4DF4:580A:B300:6694:BE7D:AF22:69C0 (talk) 15:06, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Popular versus technical meaning 

message: There is no reference available for this usage unless there is a dictionary of colloquial terms available with the term in it. However, I've heard it used (and may have used it myself). A Google search on "borrowed with extreme prejudice" returns a number of pages with the term in them. Rsduhamel 21:40, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Borrow with extreme prejudice 

message: In some of the Star Wars novels and games set in the Clone Wars, a phrase is used which is very similar: "going hiking with extreme prejudice," which refers to taking action behind enemy lines and killing anyone who can blow the commandos' cover. -216.21.183.131 (talk) 06:09, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Use in Star Wars

message: IIRC, the meaning of degree of prejudice in military context has to do with the "fog of war", i.e. uncertainty. In that case, "terminate X with extreme prejudice" would mean "kill X, and anything you think might be X". However, I can't find a ref for it. Darekun (talk) 10:36, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fog Of War? 

message: Kafka on the Shore uses an almost identical expression (圧倒的な偏見をもって断固抹殺) which was translated to English as "liquidate with extreme prejudice."  I guess Murakami had this in mind, but the translator didn't know about it.
Too busy to add a polished paragraph in the article about this.  Maybe somebody with more time can.
--D昌양 (Talk) 04:36, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference from H. Murakami