Talk:Fibromyalgia/Archive 1

message: *a reference is needed for either statement.
There were some recent changes by 212.83.178.60 that I don't agree with. He changed "and is probably genetic" to "and is unlikely genetic". Why the change? I don't want to get in an edit war, but "probably" is correct.
He removed the line "but there is no strong correlation between any specific type of trigger and the subsequent initiation of fibromyalgia." Why? There isn't a strong correlation.
He also added "particularly if this involves injury to the neck" regarding triggering fibro. I don't know of any evidence of this. Is this just speculation?
Quadell 13:29, May 3, 2004 (UTC)
:While I disagree with the rest of his changes, the last (regarding neck injury) is entirely possible. Most researchers currently agree that fibromyalgia is a neurological disorder, effectively heightening sensitivity to pain (as seen by increased levels of Substance P in the spinal cord, lowered levels of serotonin, and other abnormalities), which may or may not sometimes be triggered by neck injury. (Reference: ) 69.232.119.171 20:06, 1 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: This was me. :) -- Niveousnet 05:14, 2 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent changes 

message: Although genes for fibromyalgia have not been located, statistically it has been shown to be genetic.
Much research has been conducted regarding the onset of fibromyalgia and a particular trigger, and no trigger is statistically favored.   The phrase "particularly if this involves injury to the neck" is incorrect.
Guaifenesin is one of the safest drugs on the market.  It has very few side effects, is approved for long term use,  and is not harmful.  Although the treatment is not widely prescribed at this time, it shows promise and should be included.  Stating that it is harmful is incorrect as well.
:I hadn't noticed that line. Googling "Guaifenesin harmful" didn't turn up anything related. Certainly it's controversial, but I don't think there's any evidence that it's harmful. Quadell 14:44, May 3, 2004 (UTC)
I will wait a couple days for discussion on this before changing it.  
--Beth ohara 14:37, May 3, 2004 (UTC)
... I'm pretty sure that Dryland (2005) says it's not genetic, though that does conflict with earlier literature.  It'd be nice to see a review of the genetic or not theories over the past decade.--Aunt Amanda 06:31, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Changes on 5/3/04

message: If anybody want to work something out of what I just removed, it's here in the history. --Menchi 05:43, 21 Sep 2003 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of some comments 

message: I've had fibromyalgia for decades. I am finally getting well treating it as a stealth infection. http://www.cpnhelp.org/ is started and run by patients. It is noncommercial. I would like it included in the links. I am grateful I found the site, and want others to find it, too.
::I think it is good to have links to various support information, but is this a commercial site?  Not sure by looking at it...MollyBloom 19:06, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: ''Chlamydia pneumoniae help & treatment'' (formerly "finally getting well") 

message: :There is stated evidence that chronic fatigue syndrome is the same disorder as fibromyalgia in individuals with high pain tolerance.
That's interesting, but what is the evidence, where is it stated, and by whom?  --η[ υωρ] 08:31, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stated evidence 

message: The number of links at the end is overwhelming, which makes it hard to keep out sites with commercial interests. There's a long section called "references", but since they don't tie to any specific assertions in the text, they should just be "external links", like the rest of them. For now, I'm just merging them into a single section, but I think they should be categorized and reduced in number. Does anybody have any opinions on which ones should stay and which should go? --Arcadian 23:18, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The ones from important organisations and authoratitive health information outlets can stay. Personal webpages, blogs and other transient phenomena make poor links. JFW | T@lk 01:14, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Links at end

message: In regards to this addition, I think it's important that a skeptical view be represented. However, there are numerous dubious claims made that are not sourced. I'm rewording parts, moving them, and removing a few parts. If there are sources for statements such as "Most practitioners that actually treat patients who have been given the diagnosis of fibromyaligia feel that it is not an actual disease" and "Most patients report no relief with medicines other than narcotic analgesics", then let's discuss them here. – Quadell (talk) (bounties) 15:39, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Additions from a fibro-skeptic

message: Hi.  I have removed this article from the Wikipedia:Good article listing due to the following:
*No references.  One of the GA criteria is that a reference section must be provided.  Inline citations are preferred but not required.  When this issue has been addressed, please feel free to re-nominate.  Thanks! Air.dance 04:06, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Delisted GA

message: I see that differentials include lupus.  I have been diagnosed with lupus and MS, and my rheumatologist suggested that fibromyaliga that I developed was secondary to those diseases.  Is this possible?  From what I have read, this is a theory.  Shouldn't it be included? 
By the way, I think this is a good article, and kudos to those who worked on it!  MollyBloom 19:04, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe it's pointed out here and on the lupus article that both conditions can be comorbid with other conditions.  I'd be wary of repeating that by adding specific examples of what can develop alongside what.  Snowflake Sans Crainte 23:39, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Question

message: I'm really uncomfortable with the line "One of the more promising approaches..." Umm, who says this is "promising?" And who are the "several doctors" who are now using this protocol. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's untrue, but I won't be comfortable with it until it's sourced. 
Actually, a lot of this article is unsourced. "Studies have found gentle exercise, such as warm-water pool therapy, improves fitness and sleep..." What studies??? It's very worrisome to have so many "treatments" with no sources. DejahThoris 09:16, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have to agree with DejahThoris here.  Unless these "treatments" and statements are sourced they should be removed.  We're supposed to be creating a entry in an encyclopaedia, not a resource of "handy hints" or a soapbox for any old tom, dick or harry to claim they can treat/cure this illness. Snowflake Sans Crainte 22:26, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Guaifenesin Protocol 

message: Phrases claiming that there is no scientific or laboratory evidence for the factual existence of fibomyalgia are outdated and need to be stricken from this article. This article in its current form contradicts itself by mentioning sleep disorders, substance-p disorders, and other evidence while also saying there is no evidence. Qwasty 08:11, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "No evidence" statements 

message: This article does not conform at all to Wikipedia standards concerning NPOV. I cannot glean any information from this article regarding what, from my observations, is the generally accepted opinion of the medical community: that fibromyalgia is not a disease in and of itself, but is merely caused by depression and various lifestyle patterns (or so is my understanding). This article dismisses out of hand any skepticsm, or reduces it to a tiny collection of unsourced generalizations, which are not truly reflective of the debate over FM. Remember: it is not Wikipedia's job to be ahead of the curve. We report on what is the currently accepted concensus first, and leave secondary opinions for later. While some FM sufferers, and editors of this article, may not see physicians, JAMA, The Lancet...etc as reliable or unbiased sources, they are accepted as reliable and definitive by most others. This article treats FM as a fact that has yet to gain widespread expert endorsement or notice, instead of a theory that has yet to be proven or accepted by the majority of the medical community.  Even if FM were 110% true in my eyes, I would still have qualms with stating it as fact until a few reliable, emperical, and widespread studies were published in reputable journals. No such thing is sourced here. We need editors from both sides of the debate here, as of now there seems to only be 'believers' (save perhaps Meg) posting here and editing, and that won't lead to an NPOV article.
Also, for those of you who are about to pull out the "evolution is a theory not a fact, yet you still accept it lol!" argument on me: evolution is not concretely proveable, but has been observed for over a century, and is accepted by almost every respectable scientist in the community- this is not the case with FM.
I appoligize in advance for ticking people off, but it's time this article was brought up to Wikipedia standards. --Ringmaster j 19:05, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: All recent serious medical documentation (See Harrison, UpToDate) have an accurate description of the "sindrome". If you read carefully you would notice that it is not caused by depression, rather it may cause depression. I'm suffering from it for 10 years. I can assure you it is supra-realistic real, I do not have abnormal "lifestyle patterns", nor was I depressed before or after the onset of the ilness. If you do not know about it you better refrain yourself from comments. Also, the ilness do has a history, long time it  has been believed to be  degenerative reumathic disease and you find it  under name "fibrositis". -- M.
There is a section on Skepticism as required by the NPOV policy. – Quadell (talk) (bounties) 15:08, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV 

message: Fibromyalgia is made up and wrong. It is purely a form of depression but people dont like to be told they are depressed. Any effects of "treatment" are purely a result of the placebo effect
:Got any evidence for that?  Any at all?  No?  Thought not.  Back under your bridge with ye.  Snowflake Sans Crainte 08:29, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So untrue!!! The idea that people with fibromyalgia are just depressed (or even that we all have depression) is a stereotype that does not hold water.  We have no more depression than others with similar chronic illnesses.  In my own case, I have fibromyalgia but have had several psychologists tell me and my doctors that I am definitely NOT depressed.  However, my pain and other symptoms are unfortunately very real. AliaGemma 00:14, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In my experience and in numerous reports from friends and colleagues, GPs use the old 'you've got depression', as they are too bone-idle and lazy to look into symptoms and relations between existing ailments.  It's a way to get you out of the door, you're depressed so take some of these and you'll be right as rain in 2 weeks.  It is scandalous.  I actually suffered from depression when I was in my teens (triggered by an event), I worked very hard with therapists and helathy mind healthy body etc. and recovered.  Several years later I began developing physical symptoms which led to an eventual diagnosis of Fibro.  I accept that this may have been triggered by the depression in a cause effect relationship, so I also understand that it is sometimes umbrella'd with depression for this reason.  But I challenge anyone which says it is a psychological 'syndrome' and doesn't really exist.  Work a day in a suffers shoes!  
It's the old 'when a tree falls in the forest' argument.
* a freind of mine recently died of what her physician indicated were complications originating from years of battling FS. Wikipedia is a place for open exchange of ideas; so if you choose to express your skepticism, please do so. However, it is reprehesible to summarily dismiss, without evidence, research or factual basis to support your assertions, the significant numbers of sufferers who reach out to the global medical community for answers . (see also Wikipedia:Civility)Iggynelix 20:50, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong 

message: I've removed the paragraph about Paula Werme's web page on | Fibromyalgia and Long Distance Bike Touring because while it's interesting, I don't believe it should have a paragraph to itself in the Skepticism section of the article.  I believe this would be more appropriate as an External Link. Snowflake Sans Crainte 11:45, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fibromyalgia and Long Distance Bike Touring 

message: This article contains no mention of the recent theories by Dr. Andrew Holman in Seattle and Dr. David Dryland concerning the positive impacts of dopamine agonists such as Mirapex and Requip on fibromyalgia. Dr. Holman's medical journal articles are from 2000 I think, Dr. Dryland's book from 2005.
Just seems like a gap in article quality. 
Additionally, current trials such as Dr. Bennet's at OHSU on low IGF and low cortisol levels in fibromyalgia aren't mentioned....
I have fibromyalgia and am just trying to get a handle on the literature as well as the leaders in the field.  I know that there are many competing theories out there, but this article didn't cover them all.  I'm happy to help write up the most recent info. someday, though it would require significant research to be able to cite sources properly etc. --Aunt Amanda 06:24, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fibromyalgia and dopamine agonists 

message: It'd take some time on pubmed etc. to find the studies, but on the fibro blogs provigil (modafinal) is showing up as a treatment for fibro fog and fatigue.  Just a research lead in case anyone wants to follow it up. --Aunt Amanda 06:43, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Provigil as a treatment for brain fog and fatigue 

message: There are a number of treatments which are presented as either commonplace, accepted, or promising that are, in my experience as a physician, without substantial, reliable supporting data.  These include: The guaifenesin protocol, dietary supplements, "managing blood sugar", biofeedback, etc...  In addition, in reference to the last lines of the article, I can assure everyone that there are no "blood tests" for this condition.Royalewithcheese2 01:14, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Treatment section strikes me as not particularly objective 

message: Hello, I'm rather new to the world of Wiki, so please be patient with me if I trip over the occasional shibboleth.
I noticed in this article that in the second paragraph we have the phrase "The disease itself is neither life-threatening nor progressive....", and yet in the third paragraph we find "For example, in some cases it is progressive..."
Might it be worth finding a form of words that avoids a fairly clumsy (apparent) contradiction?
Bytebro 15:09, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've never heard that fibromyalgia can be progressive. I'm going to put a  on that claim and if no one can provide a reference, remove it in a few days. Rosemary Amey 18:47, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

text: I believe that it should be removed (and have removed it for now), as well as the part about it being impossible to generalize about fibromyalgia - at least until it can be rewritten.  The author appears to be talking about secondary fibromyalgia (as opposed to primary fibromyalgia), which is fine, but it should be somehow noted there to distinguish it from primary fibromyalgia since normally when people talk about "fibromyalgia" they mean primary fibromyalgia and not simply the symptoms of other known diseases. AliaGemma 03:13, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradiction here? 

message: I have just removed the counter-arguments section, as the "references" given at the bottom
had nothing to do with the "counter-arguments". The counter-arguments talked about how
treating depression didn't cure fibromyalgia. However the references talked about genetic
predisposition and brain abnormalities in fibromyalgia patients and had nothing to do with
depression.
I also noticed that there is no mention of PTSD in this article, even though multiple 
studies over the past 3 years have linked fibromyalgia with PTSD. I'll write up a section
about this in the next few days.
This article still needs a helluva lot of work. There is still an awful lot of crud here and
not much science.
--Sciencewatcher 05:22, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: For the record, the references are for the entire page, not the "counter-arguments" section, which is under the larger skepticism section.  It was meant to address skeptics who believe that fibromyalgia is just depression.  While it does need citations, I believe that it might have been cut too soon, seeing how most of it does not seem to be very contentious.  However, seeing how the skepticism section no longer says how some people believe fibromyalgia is depression, that specific counter-arguments section has more or less become irrelevant anyways.  I do think a new counter-arguments section, focusing on the skepticism given, would be appropriate and even needed. AliaGemma 07:39, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think anyone believes that FM is depression. Depression is just a symptom - people with FM might or might not have depression. FM is a syndrome with a number of symptoms. The skepticism is related to whether FM is an organic or psychiatric illness. Most of the evidence points to FM being a psychiatric/psychosomatic illness caused by stress or trauma. That is to say, it is a real illness with real physical symptoms (primarily pain), but caused by stress. --Sciencewatcher 23:08, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Counter Arguments 

message: Often it's witten that fibromyalgia can be due tue a sleep disturbance, in particular alpha-wave itrusion into deep sleep (stage 4). I found a very interesting article on PubMed written more than 10 years ago which found that ". The alpha NREM sleep anomaly is present in only a small proportion of patients with fibromyalgia. It does not correlate with disease severity nor is it affected by treatment with amitriptyline."
Full article here:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=7575714&query_hl=30&itool=pubmed_DocSum
Any ideas about this?
81.208.118.74 11:28, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fibromyalgia and sleep disturbances 

message: Just a note to explain why I have removed the sentence about dopamine in the introduction.
First, dopamine is covered later in the article. Second, the reason for that sentence was to counter
the argument that FM could be psychosomatic, but the sentence does not do that. Dopamine
is a factor in depression and the placebo effect, so the fact that there are dopamine
abnormalities in FM does not really have any bearing on whether FM is psychosomatic or not.
A recent study showed that Parkinson's patients receiving a placebo had significant
improvement in symptoms and in their dopamine levels. 
If you want references, let me know. --24.64.32.57 22:57, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dopamine 

message: I've looked through the external links and removed, well, about 75% of them, leaving in only what I see as useful and essential.  As per the policy, external links should contain reliable sources that have information that can not be realistically included in the page.  Other criteria I used were if the link were trying to sell something, presented a 'miracle cure' (as failing WP:RS), blogs, links to national support groups (beyond the U.S., as they generally are the most influential).  If further links are going to be added, or removed links re-added, it would be good to mention why on the talk page before doing so.  I'm not planning on automatically removing inappropriate links, but I'd like to see what I missed when removing said link.  Thanks!  WLU 20:05, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I had an external link that I placed removed. It was going to here: http://eliminatefibromyalgia.com/blog/2007/04/12/10-tips-for-your-fibromyalgia-diet/. This is a blog solely about Fibromyalgia that I believe adds something of a human element to the topic. There are also personal experiences from people battling this condition regarding diet at the bottom of the post which makes for interesting reading for anyone suffering and looking for tips and suggestions on dealing with fibro pain. I would like to have the link reconsidered for inclusion please. M1chaelg01 06:58, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links 

message: "Fibromyalgia is seen in 3% to 6% of the general population"---there's no source... in this article it says it's 2%: http://www.aafp.org/afp/20070715/247.html (es_uomikim 18:29, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Incidence

message: Finally ethical professionals are standing up: http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/03/01/opinion/edgrinspoon.php
Nice quotes: "Neuropathic pain is notoriously resistant to treatment with conventional pain drugs. Even powerful and addictive narcotics like morphine and OxyContin often provide little relief. This study leaves no doubt that marijuana can safely ease this type of pain.""If marijuana were a new discovery rather than a well-known substance
carrying cultural and political baggage, it would be hailed as a wonder
drug."Lester Grinspoon, an emeritus professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, is the coauthor of "Marijuana, the Forbidden Medicine."
It's time this option were legal -- because some of us have no
alternatives left. Step up and send this article to your congressional
reps. [/end soapbox, pep_rally, PSA]
Can someone work this stuff into the article? There's a lot more research on this treatment that can be added as well -- though most of it is research by pharmaceuticals trying to cash in. --Renice 06:25, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No specific reference to fibromyalgia - not suitable for inclusion.  WLU 16:15, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Marijuana, the Wonder Drug" 

message: The FDA recently approved the use of Lyrica (pregabalin, a gabapentin precursor) for fibromyalgia. This is the first time a drug has actual on-label use for fibromyalgia. 
http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2007/NEW01656.html
I believe some fibro advocates have suggested that someone finally figured out that fibromyalgia might be a lucrative market, and as gabapentin recently went generic, Pfizer wanted a solid market for Lyrica. No one has yet tested whether Lyrics is more effective than gabapentin vs. fibromyalgia, of course. 
Regardless of the controversy, the FDA approval should certainly be added and cited. 
Feyandstrange 09:34, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Lyrica/Pregabalin treatment 

message: hi I found that methadone is a good choice for fibromyalgia. isn't it?
http://www.revolutionhealth.com/drugs-treatments/rating/methadone-for-fibromyalgia-syndrome-fms
hope that helps   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.15.251.2 (talk) 08:24, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Methadone 

message: The diagnosis of TMS (tension myositis syndrome) has been used since 1984 by Dr. Sarno of the Howard A. Rusk Institute of Rehabilitation Medicine and his followers to designate a mindbody disorder that causes chronic back, neck, or limb pain that is frequently mistaken for structurally caused pain.  Dr. Sarno says on p.62-63 of Healing Back Pain: The Mind-Body Connection (1991) "Typical of these reports is one published in the Scandinavian Journal of Rheumatology in 1986 (Vol 15, p.165) by N.Lund, A. Bengtsson and P. Thorborg titled 'Muscle Tissue Oxygen Pressure in Primary Fibromyalgia.'  Using an elegant new laboratory tool, they were able to measure muscle oxygen content with great accuracy and found that it was low in the painful muscles of patients with fibromyalgia."
"What this means for the etiology (cause) of TMS, as I have long maintained, is that fibromyalgia, also known as fibrosis and myofibrositis (and to some as myofasciitis and myofacial pain), is synonomous with TMS.  I have treated a large number of patients who came with the diagnosis of fibromyalgia; their medical histories and physical examinations were consistent with severe TMS.  As proof that the diagnosis was correct, they recovered completely."
In his later book, The Mindbody Prescription: Healing the Body, Healing the Pain (1998) in which he expanded the TMS diagnosis to other TMS equivalents based on his long experience at the Rusk Institute, he says on pp 76-77, "I have maintained for years that fibromyalgia was a severe form of TMS.  The similarity of my findings to the diagnostic criteria of the American College of Rheumatology reinforces that diagnostic conclusion."
"People with fibromyalgia commonly have psychological symptoms as well.  They are often anxious and depressed, have sleep problems and suffer from lack of energy."
"Since fibromyalgia ia part of TMS, I have seen and sucessfully treated many patients who had been given that diagnosis before they came to me."
In Dr. Sarno's latest book, The Divided Mind: The Epidemic of Mindbody Disorders (2006), he says on pp.21-22, "Fibromyalgia is a medical term that has been around for a long time.  For some reason it was adopted by the rheumatology community in the early 1980s and applied to patients suffering pain in many locations in the trunk, arms, and legs.  In fact, it is a severe form of TMS.  Significantly, fibromyalgia patients commonly suffer from other mindbody disorders as well, like headache and irritable bowel syndrome, as well as emotional symptoms including anxiety, depression, and sleep disorders.  When rheumatologists first became interested in people with these symptoms, they were not able to explain what caused the disorder, but they created diagnostic criteria to define it.  That became a kind of medical kiss of death.  The American College of Rheumatology decreed that the diagnosis could be made if the person under examination exhibited pain in eleven of a potential eighteen locations.  Since that time, hundreds, if not thousands, of papers have been published describing studies that try, still unsuccessfully, to explain the disorder.  Two of these published studies of people with fibromyalgia found that the oxygen levels in their muscles was reduced, confirming the hypothesis that fibromyalgia is a manifestation of TMS, which we've seen is caused by mild oxygen deprivation."
"But the rheumatology community community did not accept the idea of mild oxygen deprivation as the cause of fibromyalgia, and the epidemic continued.  By the year 2000 the enormous increase in the number of people with this diagnosis prompted an article in The New Yorker magazine by Jerome Groopman, a professor of medicine at Harvard, in which he noted that there were six million Americans (mostly women) with this disorder of unknown cause and that it appeared to be analogous to the nineteenth-century epidemic of neurasthenia."
"The fibromyalgia story is another tragic example of the epidemic proclivity of psychosomatic disorders when they are misdiagnosed and, therefore, inevitably mismanaged."  Ralphyde 02:34, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fibromyalgia as Severe TMS

message: Removed skepticism again.  This really has no basis. ExpectDelays 00:04, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Skepticism

message: I would like to have http://fibromyalgia.ning.com/ considered for the list of external links. It's a great community that focuses on this topic and seems to me like a valuable resource for people coming to the Fibromyalgia page in Wikipedia looking for information. manny (talk) 15:20, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You can't really add a link to a whole movie.  Does it have its own wikipage?  You could link to that in the body or see also section.  WLU (talk) 19:47, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortunately, no, according to WP:MEDRS ► RATEL ◄ 11:54, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for the TOS info.GravityIsForSuckers (talk) 20:14, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: External Links

message: I remember seeing a section about this a couple months ago on this page -- who removed it and why? A number of FM patients are disabled as a result of the disease. The Social Security Administration (U.S.) acknowledges fibro as a disability, however, only pays support for those with severe cases (i.e. bedridden for months at a time).
It really seems to me like someone came to this page with an agenda...
--Meg 15:14, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Some MD's doubt FM isn't a physical disorder because they are basing their opinions on outdated research (mostly a lack thereof).  Many disorders go through a phase during which people wonder if they are real or not.  While there is a ton of good, solid research that now shows that fibromyalgia is real, it takes time for people to become aware of that research.  Doctors are human and they already have a lot to do.  Most don't have time to do much research of their own, particularily if it is about a disorder not directly a part of their field.  Therefore, it is not surprising that many doctors have not for some reason made themselves more knowledgeable about one of many disorders.  They are, however, less common than they used to be.  The question that you should be asking is why so many psychologists and psychiatrists do believe that fibromyalgia is a physical problem!  I have seen a few personally to ensure that there was not such an underlying issue and they all agree that I am mentally sound and that there is nothing they can do for me, so I hope you will their and my word for it.     Another question for you - how come people with fibromyalgia are not cured (or treated to the point of normal or near normal function) by psychiatric help or drugs if it is a psychiatric disorder? AliaGemma 04:12, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Why was the section about disability removed?

message: The statement:
"The cause of fibromyalgia is currently unknown."
contradicts this from Bianca Trump:
"However, in late 2001, her silicone breast implants ruptured, causing fibromyalgia and they were removed."
Mdbrownmsw 14:07, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see how there is a contradiction. Ruptured breast implants appeared to cause fibromyalgia in one woman. However other women who have had ruptured breast implants did not get fibromyalgia. Therefore there is no reason to think that rupturing breast implants cause fibromyalgia. Maybe it was the stress which triggered the fibromyalgia. I think the contradict tag should be removed - it is inappropriate here. --Sciencewatcher 16:38, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As the neccessary edits (a mention with references in "other theories") have been done, and there is no no contradiction at all, the tag has been removed. LinaMishima 01:02, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sciencewatcher is close. The contradiction was that the fibromyalgia article said the cause was unknown while the Bianca Trump article said that her fibromyalgia WAS CAUSED by ruptured implants. Even with the addition to this article of the now disproven claim, there was a conflict, as this article says only that some CLAIM there is a causal link. I have made one additional edit to the Bianca Trump article, making it clear that some have SPECULATED that the ruptured implants caused the fibromyalgia. Previously, it said the rupture DID cause fibromyalgia, which is unproven.   Mdbrownmsw 21:47, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradict tag 

message: Narrative review on pathophysiology http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/abstract/146/10/726?etoc JFW | T@lk 07:25, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Review 

message: I've had a go at upgrading the valid references. Those that were from blog sites, or self admitted as giving opinions not accepted by anyone else I've removed (under WP:NPOV trivial opinions should not be mentioned at all). Several of the references were duplicates. Some of the references were reports of specific research papers, and so I have given these references with then the explanatory lay article added in the style suggested by Template:Cite journal. On moving out the drugs under research from those currently used, it was apparent that antidepressant/anti-epileptic groups mentioned in a duplicate manner - I've coalesced these to individual paragraphs. David Ruben  Talk  01:40, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Wikisorting

message: As the author of the mucus/inflammation/toxin & colon/sinus/dehydration theory, I would like to add my name for credit, Gene Brock.  I also think chronic fatigue syndrome is related.  Check my IP address and the original posting.
:I have left a message on this user's IP address talk page. Please do not add original research to Wikipedia, see WP:NOR. All the best. Mmoneypenny 07:44, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Theory credit

message: People with fibromyalgia fail to produce sufficient HGH and treatment with HGH alleviates many symptoms. This is key to low IGF, low cortisol levels, high levels of neuropeptide Y, etc. 
I'd like to add some of this info. Anyone else here care to help?
--68.228.47.100 02:48, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Human Growth Hormone

message: To Pacula and Ralphyde: I haven't had enough time to examine the veracity of the source in question, but it doesn't look like spam on first inspection.  If the respective editors could give some rationales on why they believe this source should (or shouldn't) be included, perhaps we can avoid an edit war?
Djma12 (talk) 23:49, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for your post.  Pacula has been on a rampage, deleting anything related to psychosomatic medicine.  I have been trying to restore things to the way they were before his destructive editing, but he follows me around deleting anything I fix.  The source is verifable and relevant.  Ralphyde 02:17, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please don't take this the wrong way Ralphyde, but my reversion is not necessarily a support of your view -- I was merely trying to prevent an edit war.  Would you mind justifying why you believe the source is relevant and verifiable? Djma12 (talk) 02:40, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added a talk section on "Fibromyalgia as Severe TMS" above, which used to exist but was removed some time ago.  It's a legitimate theory, proven by the fact that many people have been cured of their fibromyalgia using mindbody treatments.  Dr. Andrea Leonard-Segal is a board certified internist and rheumatologist, and is a Clinical Professor of Medicine at GWU Medical School, and helps people overcome pain at the Center for Integrative Medicine at George Washington University Medical Center.  She was cured of her own chronic back pain by Dr. Sarno using his mindbody method, and said in her article, "A Rheumatologist's Experience with Psychosomatic Disorders", "thus began the most profound and rewarding medical education that I had experienced both personally and professionally.  This education became a new pathway to benefit patients in a simple, noninvasive, and confidence-building way."  She adopted his methods and ended her article by saying, "The beauty of the TMS diagnosis is that it is a hopeful one that can result in a true cure.  The treatment leads to resumption of full physical activity, the emergence of a more emotionally healthy life, and an education in self-awareness.  The patient who has recovered from TMS grows into a happier, more comfortable, more peaceful person who sees new paths toward greater personal fulfillment."  The article is verifiable through the Amazon.com "Search inside" feature.  I hope this helps.  Ralphyde 03:20, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have any sources that fit W:V criteria?  www.pubmed.org is a good place to start.  The book from Amazon is self-referencing and the additional information is original research. Djma12 (talk) 03:30, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

text: My reasoning seemed valid at the time, but I'm not quite as sure now - would be grateful for a little bit of third-party input on the matter. Simply put, I removed this, along with a large number of others, because it was refering (directly or otherwise) to an extremely non-NPOV article (Tension myositis syndrome) on a WP:Fringe subject that basically read like an advertisement for the books it used as reference. Most of the references to this article/advertisement seemed barely relevent, so I thought it best if I tried to sweep up the mess as much as possible. - Pacula 04:57, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Given the tenuousness of the diagnosis, and the complete lack of acceptance for TMS in the mainstream medical community, the mention should be pretty minimal in my mind.  Adding anything referenced by Sarno's books (beyond the diagnosis and potential link) is out as far as I know; it'd have to be peer-reviewed journal stuff in my opinion.  WLU 00:36, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Leonard-Segal Edit War 

message: User:Taylor423 is attempting to add a support site to the page.  I don't think it's necessary.  What do other contributors think?  The DMOZ link has a list of 20 support groups, and this isn't adding any reliable information to the page in my opinion.  Here's teh link:
WLU 16:32, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link 

message: I have fibromyalgia. I am wanting to know if anyone else with this condition has other disabilities? I have arthritis, bursitis, osteoporosis, scoliosis, and bone spurs on my spine. The symptoms with Fibromyalgia are so painful and debilitating. Then add all the other conditions puts my life almost at a stand still. I don't have any energy to clean our home, let alone hold down a job(which I can't do). Excercise lays me up for days, just climbing stairs is a feat in itself. Is there any out ther that would like to share information with me concerning these conditions? It would be greatly appreciated. Thank You. CCradick CCradick 02:09, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: CCradick, there are many support forums on the Internet for this... I don't think this is the right place to post something like this! I will take another look at the article and maybe add an external link to one of the support forums... I feel that is appropriate and would be a beneficial "add". Meg 19:43, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Meg, well excuse me for trying to have a converstion about my conditions and asking if anyone else had problems other than fibromyalgia. You go ahead and find other support forums. But you shouldn't get so crappy to someone like me considering it was only my second or third time making edits. I'm just learning about things here at Wikipedia. So, before getting an attitude, you should have already found those other support forums before replying to my edit. Also don't wait so long to tell me or anyone else we or our conversations don't belong in this area of discussion71.114.202.6 22:10, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is a clear header at the top of this talk page reminding that "This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Fibromyalgia article. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.", see WP:NOT#BLOG (also whilst I agree Wikipedia:Please do not bite the newcomers, also Wikipedia:Assume good faith is required).  David Ruben  Talk  02:52, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Forums and support groups are generally not approproate, unless the article is about that group or website itself. See WP:External links, for Wikipedia is not a directory or listing service (can always Google for support groups). David Ruben  Talk  01:27, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fybromyalgia 

message: hi I found that methadone is a good choice for fibromyalgia. isn't it?
http://www.revolutionhealth.com/drugs-treatments/rating/methadone-for-fibromyalgia-syndrome-fms
hope that helps  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.15.251.2 (talk) 08:59, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sure heroin or crack would be, too, but I don't think having people take dangerous, addictive drugs is a good solution to this illness.Ndriley97 (talk) 23:10, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Methadone 

message: I removed some of the single-equal sign headings, they screw up the formatting and don't appear to help.  WLU (talk) 19:46, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: talk page changes

message: Three statements appear in the intro that require citation?
#Fibromyalgia is seen in about 2% of the general population.
#Recently there has been an increase in the number of diagnoses[citation needed],... 
#which is assumed to be associated with better identification of the disorder[citation needed].
Can anyone provide citations for these statements?  If nothing can be found in the next couple of days, I'll be removing these statements. Djma12 (talk) 04:20, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The American College of Rheumatology says fibromyalgia affects 2-4% of the population. Antelan talk 04:26, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, I'll put this citation in. Djma12 (talk) 04:30, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks like someone already did that, mea culpa.  Does any have sources for the other statements?  Djma12 (talk) 04:32, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Statement needing citation in the intro 

message: This citation http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16154700?dopt=Abstract seems to contradict the statements made in the section "physical treatments".  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.185.220.72 (talk) 05:33, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citation Problem 

message: I thought people might want to include the information from here  Remember (talk) 15:15, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  New article on fibromyalgia and approval of drug 

message: I've read somewhere that a significant majority of sufferers are overweight, shoudln't that be mentioned somewhere here? 
talonx22:15, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It sounds unlikely. In general, to include something you need a reliable source for it. Regards, Guido den Broeder (talk) 22:26, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It sounds pretty likely, since 66% of US adults are overweight or obese. Probably not encyclopedic, unless the obesity contributes to the pathogenesis or severity of the disease, which it may. Antelan talk 02:04, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The USA house only a fraction of the world population. Guido den Broeder (talk) 10:23, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

text: No cause and effect relationship between fibromyalgia and overweight is posited, if I understand this correctly. It is a given that a large percentage of the American populace are overweight, and that fibromyalgia sufferers share that problem. Being sick and inactive can also lead to more weight gain and an inability to be active enough to get it down again. The concerns related to Lyrica causing "severe weight gain" is a serious matter, which in less serious cases of fibromyalgia might give cause to reconsider whether it is worth it to take it at all. -- Fyslee / talk 06:24, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Weight

message: Now that we've gone into the whole buisness of WHAT should be in the intro, I think the new section could use a substantial rewrite for readability.  Any suggestions? Djma12 (talk) 05:37, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intro detailing 

message: Added "cleanup-jargon" tag: "This article or section contains too much jargon and may need simplification or further explanation."
Wikipedia:Explain jargon says: 
"Explain jargon when you use it (see Jargon). Remember that the person reading your article might not be someone educated or versed in your field, and so might not understand the subject-specific terms from that field. Terms which may go without a definition in an academic paper or a textbook may require one in Wikipedia.
The first time an article uses a term that may not be clearly understood by a reader not familiar with the subject area, such as the terminology of a science, art, philosophy, etc. or the jargon of a particular trade or profession, introduce it with a short, clear explanation that is accessible to the normal English reader or based on terms previously defined in the article.'"
Ordinary people may come to Wikipedia to learn about medical problems. They should feel like they understand our article and have learned something, rather than feeling confused and frustrated. I think that this is especially important in the intro section. -- 201.37.229.117 (talk) 12:34, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Technical terms difficult for many readers

message: I found this study while researching something else, and thought it may be useful to editors of this fibromyalgia article: . - Tekaphor (talk) 14:19, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possible mechanism for reported reduced efficacy of opioids for fibromyalgia 

message: See above section as I'm not typing it out all over again. --WebHamster 21:28, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No chance, Not if they aren't making their involvement clear. In any case it wasn't a "reply" per se, it was an observation/comment/warning. Meanwhile please leave your advice/lecture in the appropriate place (please wash your hands afterwards), thank you. --WebHamster 21:44, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Responses by involved editors 

message: My adding of an external linked to a web site was removed.
I am carer for my wife Mary who has suffered from Fibromyalgia for over 10 years full diagnosed. We also run a small support group for sufferers and their carers here in Rugby UK and are active web surfers.
Whilst I appreciate Wiki is not a repository of web links, I do feel the removed web link does have some merit based on our experiences and would if readded would provide a useful link for vistors to the subject page.
# Fibromyalgia is a major illness hitting mainly women (but not exclusively)
# Figures suggest 1-3% of the population suffer from it, and certainly detection and formal diagnosis is increasing, as well as YOUNGER people being diagnosed with it.
# despite some claims, there is no specific cure but some sufferers have been "cured" by different methods, but what may work for 1 does not work for 99 other sufferers so the problem and the solution is ongoing.
# people want RELIABLE information and sources of other places for MORE information specific to their needs.
# Many support groups have been set up around the world, and knowing where they are is a useful service, the site is one of a FEW which provides a directory of support groups which can be freely added. It also gives advise about setting up and promoting a local group which is useful.
# sufferers also want to know they are NOT ALONE and have the opportunity of meeting other sufferers to discuss problems (online or via local groups) and swap ideas and information. The site does that via a discussion board.
# there is naturally a large volume of personal web sites with limited and often confusing information about Fibromyalgia, but based on a review of the discussion board and content the site seems well designed with a large volume of reliable content and links to external sources, leading me to believe it is good PORTAL for sufferers from Fibromyalgia and their carers as well as professionals supporting sufferers.
It would be inappropriate and irresponsible of me to attempt to re-submit the web site again and will leave it to others to debate (if appropriate) the merits and submit the site again or others which they feel more appropriate to the cause.
The site is www.fibromyalgia-support.net
(websi7) 05.42, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
:While I am not one who has deleted links placed on this article I have on one or two others.  You need to establish that your site has unique content apart from others to be able to stand on its own.  Does it? Mikebar (talk) 14:05, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Checking your contributions, I see you are a spammer who has been systematically adding your websites to many pages, some of which have been reverted already, and I have reverted the rest. ► RATEL ◄ 20:31, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  deleting link to Fibromyalia web site issues 

message: As per the instructions on the links page a request for a link was to be posted on the talk page. I believe that the Fibromyalgia Association in the UK should be listed as a link as it provides essential information on the condition, living with it, dealing with benefits and employment situations etc. The site also hosts a large and popular forum that helps suffers.
Some information about the charity:
"Fibromyalgia Association UK is a registered charity administered by unpaid volunteers from the Chair down through the ranks. The majority of volunteers are also fibromyalgia sufferers who work extremely hard, despite their condition, in order to forward the cause of fibromyalgia.  FMA UK was established in order to provide information and advice to sufferers and their families. In addition, the Association provides medical information for professionals and operates a national helpline."  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Desquinn (talk • contribs) 21:50, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  New External link to http://www.fmauk.org 

message: Given that fibromyalgia continues to be plagued by 'controversy' regarding the validity of the diagnosis as a clinical entity, I will concede that a "Controversy" section is topical and germaine.  However, there are several other diagnostic entities that are surrounded by controversy that have similar headings in their articles figured much less prominantly than the one featured here (or, at least, prior to my changing its location).  Take schizophreniahttp://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2219907, for example: there are those in the medical field that would advocate elmininating it entirely from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM); however, a check of the wiki article on schizophrenia demonstrates that this matter is addressed well after a discussion of material pertinent to an understanding of the disorder per se.  There is an abundance of objective evidence distinguishing the fibromyalgia patient from those of us not afflicted by the disorder.  While there exist an element of society who choose to turn a blind eye to these data, it is helpful to bear in mind that Parkinson's disease was once considered a form of 'madness' and asthma -- even very recently -- a manifestation of 'hysteria' (whatever that is...). 
Dr. Anymouse (talk) 12:20, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Controversy Relocated 

message: As a medical student about to graduate and attending one of the best london medical schools i feel it is my medical duty to inform others that we are taught that no such disease exists. Why is this not made clearer in the article? To the average reader it would appear this is an organic 'real' disease. posted by 83.104.130.77
:For a student, it is essential to learn not to take everything that people say for granted. On average, about half of what is taught is false. It is your task to you to find out which half. Regards, Guido den Broeder (talk) 10:34, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Now, if you think the article needs improvement, go ahead and edit it. Be aware though that this is an encyclopedia, so what is said must be neutral and based on reliable sources. If it is otherwise, it is likely that someone else will change it back. Guido den Broeder (talk) 10:45, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

text: It's not made clear because there are a large number of editors who immediately remove any such material from the article.  Which makes this article a good illustration of why Wikipedia itself can not be considered a reliable source.  Articles tend to attract editors most passionate about the subject, in this case, a large number of people who believe they are suffering from from this, and consider any questioning of the reality of the diagnosis to be a personal affront. Dlabtot (talk) 20:19, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

text: If it is that clear that it's a fallacy, it should be easy to find reliable sources that confirm that no such disease exists. We need reliable sources for every piece of information, so that the information is verifiable by others. AecisBrievenbus 22:53, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Two words, my young friend: Question Authority.  As a larval physician, you have the opportunity to participate in history and make a difference in the lives of the thousands of individuals.  Read the literature for yourself!  Come to your own conclusions!  ...or consign yourself to being an embarrassment to the profession as will be the case for all those who protest the "reality" of this entity.  Do you know the names of those who dismissed Parkinson's disease as madness?  Who was it that preached asthma was mere histeria?  Or have they stopped teaching those things in your Medical School?  Dr. Anymouse (talk) 14:41, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fallacy

message: While I understand that there is controversy, I do not understand WHY. Fibromyalgia is a real disease, and it is quite clear to those suffering from it and those who interact with them or even see them every so often that it is more than a hypochondriac tale.MegaZega93 (talk) 00:02, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Fibromyalgia#Controversies makes absolutely no suggestion that fibromyalgia is believed (by any reliable authorities) to be a manifestation of hypochondria (with the possible exception for a small minority of sufferers). You may want to read that section over again, and then read its references if the nature of the controversy is still unclear to you. Someguy1221 (talk) 00:56, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Controversy?? 

message: I posted the following and it was removed as being irrelevant to fibromyalgia.
Research showing that human Growth Hormone is inhibited by 1,25(OH)2D3 ( a vitamin D3 metabolite )[27]lends some support to the view that the low levels of hGH in fibromyalgia patients may be associated with bacterium which interfere with the Vitamin D Receptor. Blockage of the Vitamin D receptor can lead to low levels of 25 D3 and overtranscribed levels of 1,25(OH)2D3. Since 25 D3 is the form typically tested for clinically, the condition can easily be misread as 'Vitamin D Deficiency.'
I'd like to make the case for its relevance here, though it isn't my theory. Trevor Marshall is one of the more vociferous proponents. His theory is that many autoimmune diseases are the result of pathogens which alter the body's immune system in order to maintain longterm chronic infections and keep themselves from being cleared. He uses capenine as a model example of what he's referring to. Capenine is a sufonolipid produced by some bacteria which blocks the Vitamin D receptor. The result of Vitamin D receptor blockage is that 1,25 D3 doesn't downregulate its own production and is produced in large quantities. So bacterial blockage of the vitamin D receptor causes problems both in terms of disabling an important element of the human immune system as well as overproduction of 1,25 D3 which apparently inhibits production of human growth hormone. 
This is significant since many problems related to fibromyalgia can be treated through administration of hGH. People with fibromyalgia have trouble entering deep sleep and producing hGH. The study I cited provides a mechanism by which bacterial infection would downregulate  production of hGH.
--Ryan Wise (talk) 23:06, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Policy is pretty clear. Unless there is a reliable source that makes the connection between this research and fibromyalgia, it's pure original synthesis, and has no place in this article. Someguy1221 (talk) 00:29, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

text: Your notes on the edits claimed that you read the article, but you deleted text that was supported by the citations. Please read the information again and alter only those portions that you believe are not supported by the citations. --Ryan Wise (talk) 03:12, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I read the article, and it never once mentions fibromyalgia. As such, any content that is supported by the citation is necessarily irrelevant to this article, and the accuracy of the citation has no bearing on whether the content should be kept, which it should not. I'm going to emplore you one more time to actually read original synthesis; any claim that cannot be supported by a reliable source should never appear on Wikipedia, and in this case it is the first sentence of your quoted content above. The second sentence is, as I've explained, irrelevant. Someguy1221 (talk) 03:43, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: hGH, vitamin D3 and Fibromyalgia

message: just that I would let the editors know.  As I suffer from depression and I use a limited but focused exercise regime for combating stress.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.242.74.217 (talk) 02:33, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  working large muscle gorups like the thighs releases HGH hormones 

message: Good info but no references and it was signed within the article by :User:Tarantula17 so it can be construed as original research, something not allowed under current rules. I'd like to see the section stay but it'd need cleanup.  Mikebar (talk) 09:32, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: See Wikipedia:Citation templates for methods of documenting your edits and thanks for your contribitions! Mikebar (talk) 06:54, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Timeline 

message: Exerpt from Myofascia Pain Syndrom (MPS): MPS may be related to a closer-studied complex condition known as Fibromyalgia. Wolfgang 93.128.75.222 (talk) 18:23, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Healing Fibromyalgia 

message: I just wanted to put up a general THANK YOU to all of you who've chipped in to make this a very viable article in total on FMS.  Having worked with the condition personally and semi-professionally for 15 years, I can see the wealth of information that has been put up, checked, verified and generally kept as accurate as possible.  With so many places online that provide errant info to those who've just been diagnosed, it's great to know I can put up the Wiki link in our own charity website which those living in N. Ireland UK will know well, and know that they will get a quick synopsis on the condition. (And I have no objection to this comment being removed when required either as I appreciate it's not relevant perhaps, but did want to provide it). :) FMSNI.  TikkiRo (talk) 15:18, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Big Thanks 

message: Hello,
I have been deleloping software to assist those with fibromyalgia in tracking their symptoms since 2003 - would it be ok if I add a link to my site to the article's "External links" section? The software is Smart Diary Suite 4 - it's located here: http://www.sdiary.com 
Thanks, Dennis Volodomd (talk) 05:42, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No. It doesn't qualify as a V & RS. -- Fyslee / talk 17:43, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Smart Diary Suite 4 as an external link 

message: JFW | T@lk 20:21, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Review of treatments