Talk:Welsh Not

message: *Strong support I support including this image as it is educational, encyclopaedic and illustrative, showing how the Welsh Not was used. This is a difficult subject on what today would be considered child abuse, yet the image itslf seems neutral and sensitively done. There were no 'Original Research' (OR) objections  when discussed on the OR Talk page. The deletion of this image has created a non-neutral article. Similar images are found in books and on covers of books, but none have an open licence. Cell Danwydd (talk) 11:51, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Support (image)

message: *I oppose for the following reasons...
**The image was constructed for this page and with the feedback from the editors of this page. Which seems to me to be the very definition of WP:OR.
**Editorial decisions have been made in the choice of sex, posture and lighting. It is not just a child wearing a Welsh Not. Whether you agree or disagree with those editorial decisions they have been made and that is WP:OR
**Do we really need to show a sign hanging around a neck? Will our readers really not know how that would look?
:The image has improved since the first rather strange attempt. It got off to a bad start and it may not recover from that. Cheezypeaz (talk) 12:30, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Oppose (image)

message: *On the fence. I think there are valid arguments on both sides. In my view policy on the use of CGI images in articles such as this, is not sufficiently clear and WP:OR is too open to interpretation. Even if allowed by policy, it will be difficult to find an image that everyone will "like", e.g. does the girl in this image look non-Welsh? does that matter? It's of course very unlikely we'll ever get an actual photograph of it being used for real. I suspect if there was a contemporary artwork by a noted artist, there would be no problem, but again not likely. Is the depiction of humility or shame, as opposed to outrage or brandishing a badge of honour, also a political statement? I'm also unclear on how or why a CGI image should be treated differently to a photograph of a posed real child model. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:08, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutral (image) 

message: I've re-added the image request to the talk page, with some specifics.  There may even be some kind editor watching this talk page in Wales who can make a trip their local museum and take a good photo of a real Welsh Not! JeffUK (talk) 08:06, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: The only one I know of that would really provide what we need is the one shown in the image here. To use that we'd need permission from St Fagans. There is a Wikipedia representative at the National Library who might be able to help us - User:Jason.nlw. Deb (talk) 12:35, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone please do, so hard to see the thing in the current image! --Trans-Neptunian object (talk) 13:20, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Image Request

message: “Not” in “Welsh not” shouldn’t have a capital n.--Alex Mitchell of The Goodies (talk) 04:23, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Alex Mitchell of The Goodies, this was discussed in August at Talk:Welsh Not/Archive 2#Proper nouns and the OED and The Welsh Academy Encyclopaedia of Wales both capitalise the "Not", so the article wasn't moved. TSventon (talk) 09:06, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: That other encyclopedia is also wrong because there is no way in heck that not in Welsh not is a proper noun.--Alex Mitchell of The Goodies (talk) 20:40, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Capitalization errors… 

message: Stub Mandrel has added the early 20th century to the lead with a reference to wrexham-history.com and I have moved the reference to the Overview section. However wrexham-history.com seems to be a personal website so I am posting here in case a page follower has a better reference for or against the use of the WN in the 20th century. TSventon (talk) 13:41, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Early 20th century