Talk:Gondophares

message: The point here is that it is now established that Gondophares was a title, not only the name of one king. A bit like Augustus for the Romans - it was first Octavianus' name but was used by his successors as a title. The older references that have been added, and who identify Gondophares I with the Gondophares of the Takht-i-Bahi inscription and the Saint Thomas gospel, do so more or less by default, not fully recognising the other Gondophars. New coin types have emerged since, others have been better attributed. The numismatic evidence presented by R.C. Senior, who is the leading author on Indo-Scythian chronology, is quite forcing to its nature, based as it is on sequences of overstrikes of coins. Gondophares I is not as late as 20-46 AD, that would have absurd consequences for the chronology of the Kushans and many minor dynasties of the same period. 
Older and less specialised sources can't really be used to challenge such new advances, and such an approach does not do justice to these sources. If Bivar, an excellent scholar whose work The History of Eastern Iran is a general introduction to this subject, would write a newer edition - the one mentioned here is 27 years old - he would naturally absorb the latest numismatic advances. Ditto for even older theological works: theologists did not do the dating of Gondophares themselves.
Please don't change back without adding some comments addressing these problems. My update of the Indo-Parthian chronology was first met by an unmotivated revert, coupled with ad hominem accusations; I would appreciate a more constructive approach.
Kindly, Sponsianus (talk) 13:19, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Please read and address the arguments for my revisions

message: The text: "Indian names include 'Gondapharna', 'Guduvhara' and Pali 'Gudaphara'. Gondophares is 'Gastaphar' in Armenian. “Gundafarnah” was apparently the Eastern Iranian (Sistani) form of the name.Mary Boyce and Frantz Genet, A History of Zoroastrianism, Leiden, Brill, 1991, pp.447-456, n.431." . . . .  has recently been changed to: "Gondophares is 'Gastaphar' in Armenian. “Gundaparnah” was apparently the Eastern Iranian (Sistani) form of the name. In Pashto, the most widely spoken Eastern Iranian language, it is Gandapur, a sirname and one denoting a certain tribal lineage amongst the Pashtoons of Pakistan and Afghanistan. Mary Boyce and Frantz Genet, A History of Zoroastrianism, Leiden, Brill, 1991, pp.447-456, n.431." Does the reference really say this? I can't remember ever reading this in Boyce and Genet's work - but I have not read it for years and I no longer have access to the (very expensive and difficult to find) text. 
Can anyone with access to a good library please check this out? Many thanks, John Hill (talk) 10:14, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Recent changes and referencing query

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: There's a lot of flowery content in this article about Gondophares "belonging to the great house of Suren". First, I don't think there is any proof of this, second this is merely an interesting theory from a hundred years ago by Ernst Herzfeld: in the reference, Bivar just mentions that theory, and does not corroborate it or affirm it as true , he just suggests that some legends may refer to this indirectly, and that the Surens were probably involved in repelling the Sakas. It's all we should do: describe the theory, but certainly not affirm it as fact. The Cambridge History of Iran has "possibly member of the house of Suren" , that's probably the farthest we can go. पाटलिपुत्र Pat  (talk) 15:07, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: It is theory indeed, but also seemingly the most prelevant one in scholarship regarding the Indo-Parthian origin. However, I do agree that this can be better written. Both Gazerani (The Sistani Cycle of Epics and Iran's National History) and Olbrycht (Dynastic Connections in the Arsacid Empire and the Origins of the House of Sāsān) go into depth about Gondophares and the Indo-Parthian relation with the Surenids. I can send them both to you if you're interested? I currently have no interest in expanding the article, maybe someday. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:27, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: It's OK, I'm not too interested either, I'll just add some "possibly" wording into the article, to better reflect current sources, and you can expand when you have time for it. Best पाटलिपुत्र Pat  (talk) 18:51, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: House of Suren?