Talk:Egyptian hieroglyphs/Archive 1

message: The example Ptolmees is annoying. Double  EE is never double yodh. It was just a transcription from Greek to Egyptian. How would you explain the hieroglyph writing for Amenophis? It is totally different.
Please try to explain the difference between original egyptian and transcriptions like in Manetho's work.
:You make a good point 172.177.78.152 (I'm afraid that's how we must refer to anonymous users). I don't think that Ptolomees is the best word to use to give an example of how hieroglyphs work. Manetho's transcription of Egyptian names is a complicated issue: Egyptian pronunciation probably changed more quickly than hieroglyphic writing, so that some phonetic elements of hieroglyphics may not have had real phonetic effect. No one claims that scientific transliteration of hieroglyphs is a true phonetic record; that is not its purpose. If you would like to contribute to Wikipedia articles, you might find it useful to create an account: it's free, enables access to more editing features and gives you a presence in the Wikipedia creative community. Gareth Hughes 21:11, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ptolmees 

message: - "The earliest known hieroglyphic inscription has been dated to 4240 BC. The first appearance of hieroglyphs is found before the writing of the Sumerian cuneiform was developed."
What is the evidence for this? Probably the earliest accepted usage of hieroglyphs are labels containing royal names from Dynasty 0 which would be at earliest 3200 BC. This is still a bit later than the earliest Sumerian cuneiform tablets.
:The date 4240 BC for the earliest known hieroglyphic inscriptions is wrong on several points:
:*This date appears to be based on the Sothic cycle, which was used by some of its earliest advocates to show that the Egyptian calendar was created in 4241 BC. One error.
:*While I believe that the Sothic cycle is still useful in fixing in absolute terms dates in Egyptian chronology, it isn't useful this far back in Egyptian history. Further, the major argument for stating that the Egyptian calendar started in 4241 BC was that the calendar was established at the beginning of Egyptian kingship, & the next earliest possible date was 2780 BC -- which was too late & would conflict with other chronological calculations. Since then, a number of these chronologies have been adjusted down, & 2780 BC is now considered by almost all Egyptologists to fall either at the beginning or  before the Old Kingdom.
:*Lastly, I know of no recorded inscription in hieroglyphs that has been associated with this date. The earliest known use of Egyptian hieroglyphs are from tomb U-j in Abydos (discovered in 1988), which have been dated to the Naqada IIIA period -- which converts to c.3300 BC.
:Had I known of this claim before this, when I had access to some more detailed sources, I would have changed this. As soon as I find the time to properly research this issue (very early Egyptian history is not too interesting to me), I'll add the proper corrected info. -- llywrch 19:15, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oldest hieroglyph is not from 4240 BC 

message: Is there anything on :fr:Hiéroglyphe that should be copied here? -- ALoan (Talk) 12:34, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The French article has a lot going for it. I don't think we want to copy it: it's better than what's here but could be better. I'll spend some time working with it. Gareth Hughes 23:35, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Is this happening? I will be looking at that too PaulDehaye 03:22, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Awfully glad to do it.  Whatever is decided is fine with me but all I ask is that the article stay where it is, at least for a while; this is, even if all or some of it is merged, please don't delete it.  I will continue to monitor any changes and additions in French.  Fair enough?    NaySay 02:40, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  French version 

message: Some time soon I want to make an article about the CD label and rap musicians from Hieroglyphics. Unless there is already an article but it can't be found because of the redirect. When I'm done with the article, I'll change the redirect page into a disambiguation page and link to both.
--Dinero 01:42, Apr 13, 2005 (UTC)
:Hieroglyphics redirects here, but perhaps it should go to hieroglyph instead?  I'm not sure how we should deal with the CD label: possibilities include:
:*disambiguate at hieroglyphics instead of hieroglyph, or
:*put the article on the CD label at Hieroglyphics with a "See hieroglyph for the ideographic writing system."? -- ALoan (Talk) 08:41, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know — if someone types hieroglyphics into a search or a wikilink, they are most likely wanting to link to hieroglyph or Egyptian hieroglyph. I think the redirect should stay and some thing like For the record label Hieroglyphics, see Hieroglyphics (record label). --Gareth Hughes 17:47, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hieroglyphics Music 

message: I have an article saying that, according to Okasha el-Daly, the discovery of Arabic manuscripts from the 9th century by alchemist Abu Baqr Ahmad Ibn Wahshiyah prooves that he was capable of deciphering many of the signs.
But, as he was an alchemist, his interest was in the phonetic valuews to achieve the scientific knowledge of the Egyptians.
--Error 03:54, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Alchemist

message: Gosh - this has improved since my comment about the French article in March.  Are the authors considering nominating it as a featured article candiadate? -- ALoan (Talk) 11:24, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [[WP:FAC]]

message: Moving the medieval alchemist conception of hieroglyphs here. There may be something we can save, but as a summary it's just plain wrong: 
:Hieroglyphs are the effort of ancient Egyptians to represent meaning with symbols. Each one tends to embody the fundamental concept associated with the image during the period of its conception. For instance the human body hieroglyph with a bird's head represents the observer class of pharaoh's servants, whose duty was solely to watch the kingdom and alert the pharaoh of dangerous developments. The bird head was associated with the observational traits of birds. A human body with a dog's head represents the guard, due to the the guarding attribute of dogs.
In this way each hieroglyph symbol will be found to present the visual imagery needed to get across a specific concept.
This isn't "what hieroglyphs are"; hieroglyphs represented language, not meaning. Semantic determiners and pictographs were important elements, but were not the essence of the system, as this paragraph would have us believe. kwami 21:58, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  deleted section 

message: just wondering, the velar/palatal-ness doesn't match with the two kh's.  is that intentional?  nothing more was explained.
e.g.
sign       - notes                       - pronunciation
placenta   - voiceless velar fricative   - voiced velar fricative
belly/tail - voiceless palatal fricative - voiceless velar fricative
:The first are the traditional representations, and the second are Allen's reconstructions. kwami 01:24, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  velar fricative, palatal fricative 

message: The chart Unilateral signs has a column labelled "say", that presumably has some sort of information about pronunciation. Is there any basis for it, though? It hardly makes sense, to me, that, though ayin is a voiced pharyngeal fricative, we should "say" a. What gives? EldKatt (Talk) 19:47, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It comes as part of the traditional transcription of hieroglyphs. This is how they are usually read outloud, and often how they are written outside of a scientific context. Thus, twt-ˁnḫ-ỉmn ḥq3-ỉwnw-šmˁ is transcribed as Tut-ankh-amen Heka-iunu-shema. This latter transcription, with added es, can at least be pronounced. --Gareth Hughes 23:43, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation 

message: Where the hell is a list of Heiroglyphics? It seems like it should be on this page, and searching for it, I can only find example lists or summaries. Wheres the list? Fresheneesz 22:25, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Try here . Markh 16:49, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thats not exactly what i'm looking for but it definately helps, thanks. I'm looking for a list of heiroglyphs and their definitions, maybe some characters that arose from them, their progression, etc. I'll start one and add a link to it somewhere - I'll call it List of hieroglyphs. Fresheneesz 23:21, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: List of Heiroglyphics

message: I have translated the whole (featured) French Wiki article on hieroglyphs.  Hieroglyph (French Wiki article) Please write me or here with questions. NaySay 23:50, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Clearly should be merged into this one. & thanks very much for translating. -- Jmabel | Talk 01:03, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ohgoshthankyouverymuch!  See my comments above (#French version). -- ALoan (Talk) 01:19, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Agree for merge. Please note also http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_totale_des_hiéroglyphes_selon_la_classification_Gardiner, and its German Version. --Connection 00:46, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Theres no need for a vote on this one, just merge. Fresheneesz 19:45, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Quite a lot of the french article is repeated in Egyptian language, should we merge these as well or just make sure that the information is somewhere in an article ? 86.139.189.18 10:05, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd say that anything that is specific to the writing of the language in hieroglyphics belongs here, even if that means refactoring; the other article can summarize and then refer here using . -- Jmabel | Talk 22:29, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Absolutly merge -  mastodon 16:10, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Merge done – mostly, may need further work though. Markh 20:18, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: French Wiki article "Hiéroglyphe" translation and merge

message: I think the usage note at the bottom of the etimology section is completely usless, and not universally true either. First of all, the word hieroglyphics is in such common usage that it should be treated as a word of its own. Second of all, it is most definately correct english to pluralize adjectives when using them as nouns (for example "the reds" or "two equals" (as in equal people) ). In any case, 3 lines is much to long for that usage note. Does anyone else think it should simply be removed? Fresheneesz 20:08, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: When writing a reference article, surely correct formal English should be used wherever possible. My addition of the usage note was prompted by (a) the inconsistent use of "hieroglyph" and "hieroglyphics" in the article, and (b) a belief that those who drop the noun and use the adjective with casual abandon (like the ancient Greeks, bless them!) should at least be aware they are doing so. This awareness could be helpful to students for example, who could then employ the correct word and avoid the possibility of having their history teacher correcting them and deducting a mark or marks. Please don't mind me having a bit of sly fun, but while the words "etimology" and "definately" may be popular spellings in daily use around the world, this common usage doesn't make them correct formal English either! ;-)  Bezapt 10:18, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, I don't have time for spell check on these things : ) . Maybe i'll just try to condense the note then. Fresheneesz 12:18, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: A lovely condensation! Very succinct. (*tips hat to Fresheneesz*) Bezapt 07:24, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Usage note: hieroglyphics vs hieroglyphs

message: I believe these documents should be merged. One page should also redirect to the other, probably hieroglyph linking to Egyptian Hieroglyph. You never know when some dimwit might come up with another hieroglyphic language. Then, the list of hieroglyphs can be displayed when you search hieroglyph. Also, the page can be displayed in the language of itself, Egyptian Hieroglyhs. Also, the page on Ancient Greek should be able to be displayed in Ancient Greek, the page on H4X0R, 1337 and common shortcuts should be able to be displayed in H4X0R (or 13375P34<) and so on. If someone bothered to translate and article and write a main page in that language it would be great. It could easily be done using tables and heaps of pictures, one huge picture full of hieroglyphs would be too big in MB's. I would be glad do it if someone sent me pictures of hieroglyphs and a translation of the page in Ancient Egyptian sounds represented with English letters. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Iamcon (talk • contribs) 23 April 2006.
:Do you mean to have a version of Wikipedia (or at least a Main Page for it in hieroglphs? That would requre so many new words to be invented (not to mention so much work) that it would be near enough impossible. But do it on a subpage of your user page and I'll vote for it to be made real. Daniel (☎) 17:43, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merging + New Language in Wiki 

message: Could anybody tell me what the following hieroglyphs mean? w-r:t-m-X:t and mw-i-I-d:r-g-mw-g
I tried to translate them and I only came up with this: wrtmXt and mwiIdrgmwg. I know my question is quite difficult to answer, but I found them on the inserts of an old album and I thought that there might be have a hidden message. Regards, Luis María Benítez 14:19, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They are all Egyptian uniliteral signs, so it's unlikely that it actually means anything in Egyptian. It is more likely that someone is using the signs as an alphabet to transcribe some non-Egyptian language. Could you let us know the name of the album, and some other relevant names on it, as this could be a transcription of these? — Gareth Hughes 14:42, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Translation, please?

message: Writing on maya hieroglyphs I was a little suprised to see that the searching on "hieroglyphs" brought me directly to "egyptian hieroglyphs". I would very much request a page on hieroglyphs as a general concept and the etymology of the word "hieroglyph" with links to the various known hieroghlyphic scripts, many of which have separate pages on wikipedia. I cut the redirect which was maybe a little rash, but I think stsuff from the french article on hieroglyphs could and should be made into an article on general hieroglyphs not just egyptian ones.--Maunus 09:51, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds fair to me.. there are indeed other writing systems which have characters known as hieroglyphs. Will fix the currently dead-end 'hieroglyph' and 'hieroglyphic' pages & make them redirect to disambig article hieroglyphs. Bezapt 15:02, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Removing redirect and requesting separate page on "hieroglyphs" generally

message: The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.
*Per WP:CONTEXT and WP:MOSDATE, months and days of the week generally should not be linked. Years, decades, and centuries can be linked if they provide context for the article.
*Please alphabetize the interlanguage links.
*There are a few occurrences of weasel words in this article- please observe WP:AWT. Certain phrases should specify exactly who supports, considers, believes, etc., such a view.
**is considered
**might be weasel words, and should be provided with proper citations (if they already do, or are not weasel terms, please strike this comment). 
*Watch for redundancies that make the article too wordy instead of being crisp and concise. (You may wish to try Tony1's redundancy exercises.)
**Vague terms of size often are unnecessary and redundant -  “some”, “a variety/number/majority of”, “several”, “a few”, “many”, “any”, and “all”. For example, “All pigs are pink, so we thought of a number of ways to turn them green.”
*Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.
You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Markh 12:56, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Automatic peerreview 

message: Those three notes to a Tour Guide ... with all that had been written on hieroglyphics, to give references to that? — Just an opinion.--Barbatus 04:12, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Notes

message: Please see the following section: Writing System→Phonetic compliments.  After a number of hieroglyphs (and their explanation), the paragraph says
 Finally, it sometimes happens that the pronunciation of words might be changed because of their connection to ...
Then, there is a major grammar/structure error in the beginning of the next paragraph. It starts as follows:
 nouns; they are always accompanied by a mute vertical stroke indicating ...
I am unsure as to how to rectify the error.  My first impression is to take nouns and make it a level 4 heading, then continue as it is.—Red Baron 21:42, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks for spotting that - it was ancient vandalism, I have replaced the missing sections and it looks a little better now. Cheers Markh 08:57, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Format Error

message: Is it a convention to call a determinative "ideograph" in the field of Egyptology? pls revert my edits if it is so. But I feel that the very appearance of the word "ideograph" in the article could lead the readers astray. Cheers.--K.C. Tang 04:31, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  determinative=ideograph? 

message: http://www.magtudin.org/Origin%20I.htm —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.21.25.155 (talk) 00:05, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  a must read 

message: Greetings,
Do you happen to know which bird is that? 
G31
Could it be a Shoebill? According to Encyclopedia Aarabiah the image of this bird was engraved on the walls of ancient Egyptian temples. Could you elaborate on this matter? Lior 07:42, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This glyph corresponds to the mythological bennu. It is believed to be based on a type of heron. — Zerida 19:05, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  its listed as G31 Gardiner p 470 Heron, det in bnu (bynw) Phoenix, a very similar bird is det in snty Heron.Rktect 22:26, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Which bird is that? 

message: Obviously this is not the correct character to use for Egyptological alef. That character will be in Unicode 5.1. Should we keep yogh without comment until later? Evertype 07:01, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yogh (ȝ) 

message: 26-Aug-2007: I have been analyzing the text, in an effort to improve the clarity of concepts presented.  I have changed some linked phrases and added phrases to improve clarity.  However, I think IMO, that more simple, generalized, overview statements should be added, because too many detailed examples are presented very abruptly, with little introduction for clarity of concepts.  I realize it can be difficult to write smooth and clear intro sections about complex issues, so that writing could take a while to complete.  -Wikid77 08:36, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup clarity 

message: 26-Aug-2007: Some writers had intended the hieroglyphic symbols to appear embedded within paragraphs; however, those symbols split to separate lines on some browsers.  I specifically re-typeset the hieroglyphic symbols using various techniques:
:* put text in HTML-divisions:  my text 
:* indented by colon (":"), each paragraph containing hieroglyphs;
:* indented by asterisk ("*") a bullet with hieroglyphs;
:* indented by colon-asterisk (":*") for hieroglyph sub-examples.
Some hieroglyphic symbols are short, fitting within the interline spacing; however, some symbols are quite tall, causing an interline gap for fitting those tall symbols.  I tried to shrink tall symbols by using small-font tags (" tiny text "), but the symbols would not shrink with font-size.  Smaller symbols would be good to have.  -Wikid77 08:41, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Typesetting hieroglyphs 

message: 26-Aug-2007: Ironically, I have had to re-introduce redundant wording into this article explaining redundant hieroglyphic spellings, despite the issue (above) to "avoid redundancies" for concise writing.  On the contrary, during the explanations of complex Egyptian symbols, it is NOT the time to be close-mouthed and discreet.  Although brevity can display an aura of sophistication in writing, clear descriptions of Egyptian writing do not require proof of author sophistication.  Please repeat concepts (in other words, restate key ideas) in a variety of styles at each point, in an effort to clarify concepts to a range of readers, before adding more concepts in follow-on sections.  I strongly recommend: "tell 'em what you plan to say, then tell 'em, and then tell 'em what you told them."  Many people will find the information fascinating, but very confusing, so by all means, explain concepts 3 times, but with the final recap shorter.  Bored readers will skip the recap sections, but others will gain insights there.  Do I hear, "I copy that"?  -Wikid77 08:41, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Repeating redundancy 

message: Was the language written boustrophedon style? Chris (talk) 12:41, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No. Direction depended on the layout of the writing surface - walls on opposite sides of a doorway might have writing in opposite directions. kwami (talk) 18:11, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Boustrophedon?

message: This article needs a warning that it uses foreign letters, signs or other annotations that do not appear in the Latin or otherwise modern languages.
How are the hyroglyphics written into the text? Rhinocerous Ranger (talk) 22:21, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Foreign signsets used 

message: Hi there, i'm totally new to this and so may just be getting mixed up with how i'm interpreting things. However, in the 'Logograms' section, where there's a representation of the glyph meaning 'flamingo' it says "the corresponding phonogram means "red"", but i can't actually see a corresponding phonogram-just the bird glyph and the determinative telling me it's a logogram. is the "red" phonogram missing? or am i just misinterpreting what's being said? Can anybody help me on this? Thanks Greebo cat (talk) 23:52, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flamingo? 

message: ** The Ancient Egyptian Hieroglyphic Alphabet Game A popular game designed to teach the user the ancient Egyptian hieroglyphic alphabet.
** Egyptology Games A must for the serious student wanting to learn the meaning and use of hieroglyphs.
Can these external links be placed on the Egyptian Hieroglyph page please?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sw81245 (talk • 
** 
contribs) 13:44, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No, they are spam. See WP:SPAM and WP:EL. Ward3001 (talk) 17:11, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  External Links 

message: please add the link to pl.Wiki - pl:Hieroglify Derski (talk) 22:17, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  link to polish Wikipedia 

message: In the "Cartouche" section, I'm seeing rectangular lines around the curves at the left and right ends of the cartouches. -- Beland (talk) 19:24, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cartouche artifacts 

message: It would be very nice if someone could add a link to finnish Wikipedia - fi:Hieroglyfit DiamondClaw 19.07, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
=== Link to spanish Wikipedia ===
Also, there is no link to spanish Wikipedia - es:Jeroglífico
Fedeluis (talk) 13:54, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Done, done, and done. That should've been handled by a bot. And we were missing French, which was FA. Don't know what happened. kwami (talk) 14:33, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link to finnish Wikipedia 

message: Also, there is no link to spanish Wikipedia - es:Jeroglífico
Fedeluis (talk) 13:54, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Done, done, and done. That should've been handled by a bot. And we were missing French, which was FA. Don't know what happened. kwami (talk) 14:33, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link to spanish Wikipedia 

message: I recently came across the image of an inscription found in the Orcadian Neolithic village of Skara Brae which you can see here. The explanation provided there for its existence is speculative at best. Nonetheless the resemblance to say  n  V4D12 q  is  interesting. I have not been able to find an academically credible discussion of the subject and wondered if anyone could either point me to one, or perhaps other examples of extra-Egyptian primitive hieroglyphs? Ben MacDui 16:27, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Skara Brae

message: I was rather surprised to find this text:
I think it's interesting to note that the articles on these scholars who provided the breakthrough mentioned here all state that their work all revolved around the text of the Rosetta stone!  To suggest that the text was unimportant is patent nonsense and I've removed it, along with revising the wording a bit to make it flow.  Any discussion? EthanL (talk) 10:15, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Rosetta Stone

message: The determinatives used seem to me to have pretty much exactly the same purpose as Chinese radicals, such as disambiguating homophones and reinforcing the idea of the word. The description of the "papyrus" determiner put me very much in mind of the 言 radical. Could someone elaborate? 137.205.74.230 (talk) 22:54, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: They're both determinatives. kwami (talk) 22:40, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Determinatives 

message: Take a look at the image with the black hieroglyphics. 2nd Column from the left, 5 down.  Is that a real animal or a photo-shopped monster?  Its very un-Egyptian looking!  I suspect foul play but I leave this to you experts.  Let me know please as I'm very curious.
-Knowl  <(Go to my user page to play WIKI RP! Its FUN and educational!) (talk) 12:30, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure doesn't look Egyptian to me. I don't have Gardiner with me, but I doubt I'd find it there. kwami (talk) 20:49, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

text: Well done for looking. Ankhnesneferibre was an obvious search argument and I think it was that one which enabled me to find firm evidence. I have preserved the amusing image in this blog posting. — RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 06:12, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

text: What posting on your talk page? You are not by any chance referring to this edit are you? — RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 10:11, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photoshop or Rare/Deformed Glyph? 

message: Unless im mistaken the translation of the Jackel actually means 'Anubis' which is the Jackel headed god so i made a slight ajustment there
there was something else i wanted to do too but i forgot  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Boves (talk • contribs) 10:45, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Small change 

message: I'm not an expert, but I have noticed some passages that seem inconsistent, but I'm not sure how to remedy some of these instances of bad wording or internal logic.
Under "History and evolution", it is claimed that "simplified glyph forms developed, resulting in the hieratic (priestly) and demotic (popular) scripts". The article Hieratic, though, emphasises (citing a scholarly source) that this script is not derived from hieroglyphs, instead being a parallel development.
Under "Decipherment of hieroglyphic writing", the article says "[...] an attempt by an Egyptian intellectual to rescue an unrecoverable past". In the face of the results of modern Egyptology, it is not very fortunate to call the Egyptian past "unrecoverable", as it has obviously been recovered to a considerable extent.
It also says that the hieroglyphs were the inspiration for the Semitic alphabets; however, according to article pointed to, strictly speaking, it was rather the hieratic, not the hieroglyphic script that provided the immediate inspiration. This imprecise statement needs fixing and the article on hieratic should mention that hieratic was the model for the alphabet.
Under "Spelling", the article says "Furthermore, the Egyptians were perfectly content to include older orthography ("historical spelling") alongside newer practices, as if it were acceptable in English to use the spelling of a given word from 1600 in a text written today." The comparison with English is the worst you could come up with, since English is famous for its historical spelling - basically, what is described there is indeed current practice in English!
I have also deleted some paragraphs from "Etymology" that, besides sounding as if they rather belonged to the Simple English Wikipedia, or had been copied from somewhere else, did not belong to the subject of the section. Florian Blaschke (talk) 19:04, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Strange wording 

message: I have recently noticed that the glyphs on the Rossetta stone face the right, that means that the Rossetta stone glyphs would be read from right to left, not left to right, so is there a way to "flip" the gliphs when using the WikiHiero syntax? Oh, and is it possible to manually make the gliphs smaller like pictures and thumbnails? Buɡboy52.4 (talk) 22:15, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It is a convention that the hieroglyphs are written left to right. Wikihiero doesn't allow right-to-left righting, as far as I know Markh (talk) 00:22, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiHiero syntax 

message: how do you use WikiHiero, like on your use page?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Imperfect.dark (talk • contribs) 08:25, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  using WikiHiero 

message: I'm hoping someone here might be able to point me in the right direction.
For the article Lod, a city in Israel, I'm trying to find the first recorded use of a name for the city. The first person to write about it was apparently the pharaoh Thutmose III, who, in 1465 BCE, drew up a list of towns in Caanan. I have found this page that mentions Lydda in this context (if you search for Lydda, you'll see the entry).
Does anyone know what this means? Is it saying that this was the name Thutmose III used for the town, and if so, exactly which symbols made up the name, and do we have any idea how it would have been pronounced? SlimVirgin talk|contribs 20:45, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Looking for some help 

message: How egyptian hieroglyphs were finally decoded? Two explanation.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.13.182.138 (talk) 06:26, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Egyptian hieroglyphs 

message: Removed the references to a (partial) decipherment 800 years before Champollion. While apparently widely reported in the media, a casual inspection of at least the translated work of Ibn Wahshiyya at google books (see reference in article) suggests that most of the 'translations' were of a similarly fantastic nature as Kirchner's later suggestions. Claims of 'cracking the code' do thus seem at least problematic and too questionable to be reported here without qualifiers. As qualifiers in the absence of a critical source constitute original research, removal seemed the only option.
--Hakseng (talk) 04:42, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Attempts at translations in medieval Egypt 

message: I propose that the article Decipherment of hieroglyphic writing be merged into this one and replaced with a redirect. There are several reasons for such a move - the 'decipherment' article is thin on content and sourcing, its content is largely overlapping information already in this article, as it deals only with Egyptian hieroglyphs, and there is already a decipherment section here. The title is somewhat confusing since the article text deals exclusively with Egyptian hieroglyphs, but other historical hieroglyph systems exist and were deciphered at different times by different individuals, and finally, the 'decipherment' article seems to place undue weight on the importance of incomplete Islamic attempts at decipherment. Dialectric (talk) 00:17, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The title could be made more precise. That's hardly reason for a merger. — kwami (talk) 00:37, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: the main reason is that the content there is duplicated almost in its entirety here, rendering a second article unnecessary. Dialectric (talk) 12:24, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  merger proposal 

message: is the usual writing direction for the egyptian script left to right or right to left. I have heared many times that 90 percent of writings are written right to left. I have made the change in the article but it has been reversed??? I donot understand why??
--216.249.11.195 (talk) 02:07, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Usual writing direction??? 

message: I upgraded my gucharmap and happened to notice the hieroglyphic range, so I made a grid template for it. See talk page for instructions.
―AoV² 14:35, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Bravo and thanks. nice work to both. -- Scriber (talk) 14:16, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: unicode 5.2

message: I modified the CSS so that the Aegyptus font is default across the whole table and the sans-serif font only appears in the cells it has to. Before that, only Mozilla Firefox was displaying the full array of hieroglyphs, but Google Chrome and IE were not. As of this moment, IE 9.0.7930.16406 (Beta release), Mozilla Firefox 3.6.10 and Google Chrome 6.0.472.62 display the table as intended by AoV².
--Rodrigo Lima Jaroszewski (talk) 06:34, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Bravo and thanks. nice work to both. -- Scriber (talk) 14:16, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Changes to CSS 

message: This is a wonderful article -- someone has put in a huge amount of work here!--75.83.69.196 (talk) 02:20, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: great article

message: I think Wikipedia should embed the Aegyptus font in order to display the characters... Simoncpu (talk) 05:50, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: How do you write in cartouches? I tried, but what the 𓁿, it didn't worked! 81.195.13.166 (talk) 14:39, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Is it possible to build hieroglyphs like this: A1:A2 with CSS?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.79.47.237 (talk) 21:45, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aegyptus font 

message: I noticed that the cartouche for "Lioka" seems to render improperly in the article. Specifically, the sign numbers J10 and S60 do not correspond to any signs in Gardiner, and "o" is not recognized by the sign list as corresponding to any Egyptian sound. The edits were made about a year or two ago by an anonymous user, and the name "Lioka" does not seem to show up in any literature on Egypt. Is it thus safe to delete the cartouche? Mathmagic (talk) 23:27, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regarding the cartouche for the name "Lioka" 

message: There is a new book that is relevant to this page that I think would be helpful in the "Further Reading" section. The book information is as follows:
Selden, Daniel L. (2013) Hieroglyphic Egyptian: An Introduction to the Language and Literature of the Middle Kingdom University of California Press. ISBN: 9780520275461
Emcanespie (talk) 00:23, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Done --Jnorton7558 (talk) 21:43, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request on 29 January 2013 

message: Parent: Cuniform
Direction: Left to Right LOOOOL  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.48.175.55 (talk) 05:40, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  LOL 

message: Under etymology, the article states that it is erroneous to use the word hieroglyphics as a noun.  However this contradicts the wikipedia article on Hieroglyphs as well as every dictionary source I've checked online.  Dictionary.com, merriam-webster, and oxforddictionaries.com all list hieroglyphics as a noun and an adjective.  It may be preferred to call them hieroglyphs within certain professions, but it certainly isn't wrong to call them hieroglyphics.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Swansond (talk • contribs) 14:01, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hieroglyphs and Hieroglyphics 

message: Please add the  box to the top of that section:
This will indicate to people why they see funny squares or question marks in that section. 
-- 70.50.148.248 (talk) 08:39, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I hope I understood your request correctly?Given the number of edits you are making, it would make sense for you to open an account and then (after the 10 edits and 4 days criteria have been met) you can make these edits yourself. Arjayay (talk) 14:28, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that was the edit I was talking about. -- 70.50.148.248 (talk) 05:24, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Unicode section

message: 1. From the History and Evolution section, I quote, 
"For example, symbols on Gerzean pottery from circa 4000 BCE resemble hieroglyphic writing."
This contradicts the dating of the Gerzean/Naqada II period to (3500-3200 BCE) in the article Gerzean, which states, that the Gerzean culture "begins circa 3500 BC lasting through circa 3200 BC or the end of the Naqada II period."
2. Furthermore, the appearance of the first hieroglyphs as assigned to the Naqada III period (3200-3000) in the article Predynastic_Egypt#Protodynastic_Period_.28Naqada_III.29, stating, "the Naqada III period, from about 3200 to 3000 BC,... is notable for being the first era with hieroglyphs (though this is disputed by some), the first regular use of serekhs ..." . This is again concurred upon in the article Naqada_III.
3. The sources in the foregoing articles is a scholarly work, eg, 
Shaw, Ian, ed (2000). The Oxford History of Ancient Egypt. Oxford University Press. p. 479. .
whereas one of the two sources for the statement that I complain about in this article, is the Discovery channel!! cf. :
"^  The origins of writing, Discovery Channel  (1998-12-15)". and the other source is a journal i never heard of with a weird name.
For the foregoing 3 reasons, I recommend removal of sentence in question. But before doing so myself, i'm giving the chance for a RFC and to the editor to update or correct his editing, or contest the objections and criticism I expressed here. Cheers.  -Scriber (talk) 01:14, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: And how is that any different from the "facts" written of in the History and Evolution section? Yes, this article is a complete a total shot in the dark, and one that does not even come close to hitting any factual target other than phantasy fiction during the time it was written. Exactly like the History and Evolution section, only what was written there was for some reason given more credit as accurate. Very little of what is written here or anywhere is factually or actually accurate except for first hand accounts of any event, and even then, only if the author is practiced at honesty AND journaling. - Dirtclustit (talk) 16:40, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Factual error, shady source, contradicts other wikipedia articles in "History and Evolution" section 

message: Please link. 99.238.74.216 (talk) 23:21, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Dougweller (talk) 09:54, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Henry George Liddell]] 

message: i heard that hieroglyphics were seen as evil fighting evil - that only the gods or those entrusted with them could use them.... & somehow that it protected evil by supporting it...
someone verify/edit/ ?
:Hieroglyphic (and its cursive versions, hieratic and demotic) was simply the standard writing system of the Egyptian language, and it was used for any kind of religious or civil use. The extant hieroglyphic texts include such "unmagical" things as trial records, geometry excercise books, private letters, commercial invoices... Legends about hieroglyphs being a mysterious magic writing arose in the hellenistic age, when the Egyptian language had switched to the Greek alphabet and no one in Egypt could understand hieroglyphs anymore. 194.176.201.29 08:53, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hieroglyphs are not a simple standard writing system, Hieroglyph is not a written translation of any spoken Egyptian Language. It was not, nor has it ever been used for any of the examples you have stated, with the only possible exception being their role in Egyptian Theology. It is for more accurate to explain that Hieroglyph -- as a word -- is the etymological equivalent, to flip book animation as still photographic images  are to reels of film that become motion picture. What Arrogant Anthropological Linguists have done, is the exact same scenario as some Linguist, in two thousand years finds a set of drawings by William Hanna, Joseph Barbera, or Chuck Jones, then decides to assign ~said~ frames of the animated cartoon to be letters or words in our Ancient American English alphabet and or vocabulary. I don't mean to use an offensive tone, however there are a lot of Linguists today, that wouldn't be able to put two and two together even if they found the single, animation frames in correct sequential order. -Dirtclustit (talk) 09:57, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  hieroglyphics = evil? 

message: The Aegyptus link is broken, Noto is still not offered, NewGardiner.ttf does not cover entire range, JSeshFont needs a review. Of course best so far is the one embedded in U13000.pdf (official). Cheers.--Connection (talk) 20:39, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know what you mean by "Noto is still not offered"? You can download it from https://code.google.com/p/noto/source/browse/fonts/individual/unhinted/NotoSansEgyptianHieroglyphs-Regular.ttf Thaths (talk) 06:29, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes Noto, specifically NotoSansEgyptianHieroglyphs-Regular.ttf, todate, is an empty template. Cheers--Connection (talk) 16:53, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Redoing Fonts Section 

message: We are using the Greek name Hieroglyphs, yet there is no mention in the lead of mdw ntr. --Inayity (talk) 19:34, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  mdw ntr Should be in the lead 

message: I've deleted some of the badly ref'd claims that the Sumerian idea has been refuted.  It's not just a matter of dating, since the dates are uncertain, but the fact that the precursors of writing have been found in Sumeria but not in Egypt.  Has that changed?  And do we have better refs than crap like the Discovery Channel?  — kwami (talk) 04:43, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Is there any evidence that Egyptian (pre-hieroglyphic) pictographs were influenced by Mesopotamian (pre-cuneiform) pictographs? Because that would be the only evidence that writing in Mespotamia directly influenced Egyptian pictographs. In the absence of such evidence, why claim that Mesopotamian writing influenced Egyptian writing? MrSativa (talk) 03:32, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sumerian stimulus diffusion 

message: Under "Child systems" in the description box, "Coptic" directs to the article on the Coptic language, while it should direct to the Coptic alphabet, which was derived from Egyptian hieroglyphs. 107.77.235.40 (talk) 01:54, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed.  Thanks for pointing that out. DRMcCreedy (talk) 03:31, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 31 October 2016 

message: This article has used the AD/BC convention throughout 2005 to 2014. If you see this kind of edit please revert it, it is not constructive. --dab (𒁳) 12:08, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I would support a general change of AD/BC to CE/BCE for Ancient Egypt articles if that were to be proposed.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 11:47, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: [[WP:ERA]]

message: In Slavic and some other East European languages (perhaps influenced by Russian) the word Hieroglyph (Russian: иероглиф) is used to describe Chinese characters (in Chinese or Japanese). In fact, it's the only way to say a Chinese character in Russian. Is there this meaning in English or some other European languages? I know some people frowned when somebody referred to Hanzi/Kanji as Hieroglyphs.
In my opinion, the word Hieroglyph should not be used in relation to old Egyptian language alone but in reference to any Logographic system.
--Atitarev (talk) 23:52, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've seen 'hieroglyphs' used to describe other similar systems, although the Egyptian sense is the most common. Actually, the Wikipedia Hieroglyph page describes other uses. YngNghymru (talk) 22:17, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hieroglyphics - other meanings? 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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*Added archive https://archive.is/20121205004306/http://www.isidore-of-seville.com/hieroglyphs/ to http://www.isidore-of-seville.com/hieroglyphs/
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Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 09:45, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I didn't know how else to address this--there's some weird error/typo in the "Decipherment" section: " It wasn't until Athanasius Kircher in the mid 17th cent. that scholars began to might alsohat the hieroglyphs might also represent sounds."
The specific issue is the phrase "might alsohat".
This page is locked down, can someone address this?
Thank you!
Luke
:: I've fixed it, based on what I'm pretty sure the editor who added this text meant to say. Thank you for pointing this out. A. Parrot (talk) 02:32, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Issue in "Decipherment" section 

message: The article body says that windows 10 includes a font that supports the entire range. But it does not. It's missing three symbols. 2001:56A:71BA:6800:1CBE:9C35:6017:3389 (talk) 22:30, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I've updated the article to list the three excluded code points (which are already noted by the Segoe UI Historic section of the Segoe article). DRMcCreedy (talk) 23:39, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Windows 10 does not support egyptian hieroglyphs. 

message: Medew Netcher looks like it should be merged with Egyptian hieroglyphics. "Medew Netcher" looks like it's just a variant transcription of mdw·w-nṯr/medu-netjer/𓊹𓌃.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.176.54.26 (talk) 08:53, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Merger Proposal

message: In the article I read: "It would have been possible to write all Egyptian words in the manner of these signs, but the Egyptians never did so and never simplified their complex writing into a true alphabet."
Whether changing to uniliterals only would have constituted a simplification seems open for debate. Writing and/or reading several consonants in one go may in some respects be simpler than using uniliterals for it.
I propose: "It would have been possible to write all Egyptian words in the manner of these signs, but the Egyptians never did so." A specialist might even explain here what reason(s) the Egyptians (may) have had for sticking to their full set of hieroglyphs.Redav (talk) 23:38, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Simplification: from what point of view? 

message: See discussion above - besides looking like advertising it seems too short to have its own article, and of course a redirect would be left. Doug Weller talk 15:45, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Merge complete. I didn't see anything at Medew Netcher that needed to be kept, so I simply redirected it here. A. Parrot (talk) 15:52, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed merge with [[Medew Netcher]] 

message: Why is the Coptic alphabet presented as a child system of the Egyptian hieroglyphs in the infobox? It derives from the Greek alphabet.
89.210.59.5 (talk) 14:37, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I assume it's because a few signs in Coptic are taken from the demotic script rather than Greek, and those demotic signs ultimately began as hieroglyphs. A. Parrot (talk) 14:59, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Exclusion of Coptic from the infobox

message: the word is spelt stele not stela
: From dictionary.com ... "ste·la (stl)pl. steles, also ste·lae (-l) An upright stone or slab with an inscribed or sculptured surface, used as a monument or as a commemorative tablet in the face of a building."
:unsigned, dates from >1y ago. -DePiep (talk) 09:48, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stele 

message: Hello, fellow Wikipedians. I would like to express the thought of adding the native name of the Egyptian hieroglyphs, in Egyptian and Coptic, in the infobox.
More specifically,
and "ⲥϧⲁⲓ ⲙ̀ⲙⲉⲑⲛⲟⲩϯ" in Coptic. How about that?
89.210.100.213 (talk) 23:46, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Native name of the hieroglyphics

message: This article must be a thorn in the flesh for editors going through the unreferenced articles backlog. It is too notable to delete, yet there are articles (Egyptian hieroglyphs, Hieratic, Demotic) that cover much of the same stuff. Perhaps it is best to move out content to their respective alphabets (if it is not covered there already), while merging or simply redirecting the rest to Egyptian language#Orthography. - HyperGaruda (talk) 11:39, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Alternatively, this page could be turned into a disambiguation page with links to the aforementioned scripts. - HyperGaruda (talk) 12:13, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Unsourced since 2006

message: Ptolemy’s cartouche is labeled Old Kingdom, and I don’t know how to fix that. Could it please be updated to the Ptolemaic Kingdom, Hellenistic Period, or other appropriate designation. 2600:100B:B106:96BE:3CAF:30EA:C6B:42B8 (talk) 04:47, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Done, . Thanks for the report. -DePiep (talk) 07:08, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Incorrect era 

message: Hieroglyphs are the Egyptian writing system and their is a lot to learn about it if you are trying to write a 5 sentence paragraph with only a pencil 2600:6C50:787F:36AC:D883:9ED:33E6:1E66 (talk) 23:48, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hieroglyphics 

message: has a table with 1071 signs. I am proposing to improve the phonetic descriptions of these. In short: not as a (bracketed) addition to the transliteration, but on their own. See discussion & demo's at . And have a nice festive centennial day :-) DePiep (talk) 10:35, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  List of hieroglyphs: improve phonetic descriptions 

message: The article Hieroglyph is a content fork from this article. It contains no incremental information. Onceinawhile (talk) 20:23, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree, looks like useless stub. Artem.G (talk) 21:11, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

text: Support – It is just a useless content fork from this article and nothing more than a stub, there is no reason for it to exist. – Treetoes023 (talk) 18:56, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge with [[Hieroglyph]] 

message: My browser, Safari iPadOS 17  has failed to render some of the unicode characters here. Is there any way that a suitable font could be embedded or suggested? CecilWard (talk) 13:24, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unicode font support