Talk:Le Villi

message: I think this is not correct:
"Le Villi is Puccini's first stage work. It was written for a competition of one-act operas, but did not even earn an honorable mention. His supporters funded the first production, and due to the favourable reception, Giulio Ricordi agreed to take on the publishing. Ricordi urged the composer to expand the work, and Puccini did, producing a new version later that year, which was followed by modifications in 1888, and the final version in 1892."
From what I've heard, Puccini met the adjudicators weeks after the competition, and since they couldn't even remember his opera, he played it in entirity to them on the piano. They enjoyed it so much they funded it. I was just wondering....
:Yes. Since Giulio Ricordi printed the libretto of the first production, the above statement ("...due to the favourable reception, Giulio Ricordi agreed...") is false. Also, consider that Ponchielli was a man of "casa Ricordi": it was he who put Puccini in contact with the librettist Ferdinando Fontana and he was in the "Concorso Sonzogno" commission. According to Julian Budden, probably it was Ricordi who obtained that Puccini's opera would not win the "Concorso Sonzogno" by "driving" the commission (Ponchielli and others). --Al pereira 21:05, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Comment

message: THe text now says  "The libretto is based in the Central European legend of the Willis, also used in the ballet Giselle and the opera Die lustige Witwe."  What exactly is the connection with Die lustige Witwe? I don't get it. -- Kleinzach 15:29, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Whoever put that in was presumably referring to "Vilja, o Vilja", the story of a nymph who fell in love with a mortal (see Slavic fairies.  It could be said to be "used in" Die lustige Witwe, but the reference here is rather misleading. --GuillaumeTell 16:59, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. I think it would be simplest to just remove the reference. -- Kleinzach 14:14, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Die lustige Witwe]]?

message: Why the title was changed? --Al Pereira(talk) 11:57, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: "Villi" is normally treated as a proper noun in Italian when rendering the title. An operatic example of a group being given proper noun status would be I Lombardi alla prima crociata. It's a problematic area with a fair amount of variation in both Italian and English. Non operatic examples would be groups like the "Muse" Muses, "Sirene" (Sirens) and "Furie" (Furies)). The word "ninfa" (nymph) is not capitalized but the various sub-groups of nymphs are, e.g. "Pleiadi" Pleiades. In this (isolated) case, I'm inclined to give more authority to the Centro studi Giacomo Puccini: Catalogo delle opere teatrali than to Grove. But that's just my personal opinion. I'll copy this to the Le villi talk page. Perhaps other OP members who have views on this could weigh in there.
Best, Voceditenore (talk) 06:19, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

text: Thanks for answering. It's a problematic area indeed, but in this case the choice of the Grove surprised me since all the secondary literature on Puccini uses the upper case title. In Italian, it's actually treated as a proper noun: it's like :it:La Valchiria. --Al Pereira(talk) 12:04, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Al Pereira: OK. Now we have seen all the references, it's clear that this is one of those rare 50:50 cases where there is a lot of confusion. My understanding was that like nymphs and fairies, the willies were not a proper noun, but some writers apparently think otherwise, so I don't have any objection if you want to re-capitalize the 'v'. --Kleinzach 23:08, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you, Kleinzach. Now just we need an admin..... --Al Pereira(talk) 01:07, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

text: No need... Done --Al Pereira(talk) 22:51, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Le Villi / Le villi