Talk:Coagulation

message: in the movie Resident Evil (2002), Matt Adison points out that a woman's blood has coagulated, pointing out it's impossible because blood only coagulates after death. One; blood coagulates all the time, not only after death. And two, how can you tell by looking at blood to see if it coagulated?   —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blindy me (talk • contribs) 23:33, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sometimes people experience clotting due to a disease process that triggers the cascade. So, yes, there is a medical emergency called Disseminated  Intravascular Coagulation, which signifies blood clots throughout the body which may be localized or so severe that it triggers organ dysfunction. Wikipedia has a page on it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disseminated_intravascular_coagulation 74.12.125.129 (talk) 16:35, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Resident Evil

message: In the event of copmlete integumentary deprivation, assuming you lived, would your skin scab over, or would something else happen? Razor Rozar7 (talk) 19:20, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: A question

message: As a non-biologist, what this article doesn't tell me is how exposure to air makes platelets stick together, which is perhaps what coagulation is all about.
What it needs is something like "when factor blah on the surface of the platelet or in the blood comes into contact with air/oxygen/nitrogen/knives/blunt_objects is it suppressed/enhanced/confused/enlightened which triggers the cycle".  I'm guessing that all these factors are also expressed on the surface of the platelet?  Or are they inside?  A chatty intro to the subject before the factor X does whatever to factor XI would help. - (unsigned)
:We recognize the problem that different audiences require different presentations. We haven't quite worked out if separate articles are needed or if it can all be included in one place.
:In the meantime, though: exposure to air doesn't make platelets stick together, exposure to collagen does. Collagen is found in the connective tissue that is found outside of blood vessels. 
:Primary clot formation has three basic steps
:*Platelets aren't normally exposed  to collagen: when they are exposed to it (for example, when a blood vessel is cut), they stick to it: that's platelet adhesion
:*The platelets then secrete the chemicals they store: that's granule release
:*The granule's contents enable fibrinogen to link between platelets (platelet aggregation)
:That's primary hemostasis. Coagulation (secondary hemostasis) happens after that, as a way of firming up the initial clot through the formation of thrombin, which converts fibrinogen to fibrin. - Nunh-huh 02:19, 26 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Nunh-huh answered the question well but I think that one point to clarify to a lay-person is that you can't get to air without passing by the connective tissue (CT) that surrounds all blood vessels. Because a major component of CT is collagen then collagen will be exposed upon any blood vessel rupture, even those that are open to "air". As you can see, you must first cross collage to get to air. In the case of a gapping wound that is wide open, the bleeding cannot stop itself and stitches or some other controlling factor is needed to seal off the exit point and give the exposed collagen a chance to induce hemostasis.Orlandoturner (talk) 20:59, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: to the OP, you can also imagine that a lot of internal bleeding occurs where there is little to no "air" and people don't die from bruises and such, further implicating collagen.  Anyway, I thought the article was well written.  I especially liked how in the intro it explains how the platelet activation and coagulation pathways intertwine.  But here's some food for thought: how does blood stasis lead to coagulation?  For example, it's known that blood stasis is one of the factors that can lead to thrombus formation, hence the whole DVT on the airplane thing.  Assuming that my blood vessels aren't being damaged while I'm just sitting down, it would seem that blood seems to want to clot by default, perhaps due to collagen particles being deposited in the deep veins? -- Bubbachuck (talk) 20:41, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Exposure to air

message: it appears to me that this page is improperly titled.  i suggest:
1) we make coagulation a disambig page with links to human blood coag as well as other types of coag like eggs + chinese food.
2) we move the material on this page to Coagulation of human blood.
Thoughts?  Ungtss 16:42, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm more in favour of coagulation (disambiguation). Blood coagulation is by far the most important form. JFW | T@lk 23:11, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

text: apologies.  since the bold title in the intro already said coagulation of human blood, i thought it was an intuitive move.  sorry i jumped the gun.  Ungtss 23:40, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

text: It certainly seems less intuitive to me than the other, but the present arrangement is clearly very important to you, and it certainly does no harm -- I'll agree.  Ungtss 01:17, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

text: Well, I do not agree. I think that the coagulation article should discuss the concept of coagulation and then there should be more specific articles for eg. coagulation of human blood, water purifying, egg-cooking and other examples. Now there is actually no article on the concept of coagulation, which I think should definitely be included in any encyclopedia. If there is 100s of links affected then let's change them.--Qtea 21:40, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  title 

message: Since the moving of this article from the specific "coagulation of human blood" to the general "coagulation" it has become important to include disclaimers and disambiguations. Two thoughts about these:
*I was under the impression that all editorial comments which are not really part of an article but serve as aids-to-readers are italicized. That would seem sensible, certainly.
*Mammals aren't the only blooded animals! Birds have blood — how do they clot? etc. You have to cover every possibility, leaving no cracks for a confused reader to slip through.
(In general, indeed, this article — like so many scientific ones — assumes too much of the reader.) Doops 16:48, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree.  ideally, we'd have articles on the coagulation of many types of animal blood.  in the meantime, it's important to clarify in the note at the top, in italics, that is article, tho titled coagulation generally, is quite counterintuitively only about one very specific type of coagulation, and only one type of blood coagulation.  Ungtss 18:29, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  disclaimers 

message: Would be great to have written which chromosomes code for different factors. --Eleassar777 13:49, 19 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Follow the links, Eleassar. When I wrote all the articles, I put the chromosome data there. If I have the time I may do it myself. JFW | T@lk 20:13, 19 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Chromosomes

message: I just wikified and largely rewrote a stub article on thromboelastography (and learned a lot in the process), but I'm not sure where in this article it should be linked.  Could those in the know please review my work, and add useful links to it from other articles? — Catherine\talk 18:44, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Cutting edge! I would put it in the diagnostic section. JFW | T@lk 21:41, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Important for research into those idiotic little platelets that pay attention only to themselves...!74.12.125.129 (talk) 16:41, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thrombelastography 

message: Hi chaps,
Playing the random 10 articles game, I found this article. It appears to be nothing more than a copy and paste from Clotting_cascade#The_coagulation_cascade (ie, this page). It would be great if someone could be bold and decide whether the section merits its own page. If so, the material should probably be removed from this page with a link to that one, and it should be seriously wikified and contextified. 
If not, the other page should be replaced with a redirect to this one (and there is one page linking to that page - please fix its link).
Thanks, pfctdayelise 14:12, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Please review Wikipedia:Redirect. You've traveled over a redirect to the same page. JFW | T@lk 03:05, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Coagulation cascade]] 

message: I don't think the sentence "The use of adsorbent chemicals, such as zeolite, and other haemostatic agents is also being explored for use in sealing severe injuries quickly." really belongs in the intro. I am not sure if it even belongs to this page at all. Maybe we need a page Treatments for severe bleeding or something along those lines. I didn't make the edit since I didn't want to just remove the info without having anywhere else to put it.
Thanks, Azad 15:05, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have Biochemistry now in Med School and I asked my BioChem professor regarding this sentence "contact activation pathway (formerly known as the intrinsic pathway), and the tissue factor pathway (formerly known as the extrinsic pathway)". He said that the "contact activation pathway" and "tissue factor pathway" are not correct and refer to something else entirely. Also the 2009 edition of Lehninger Principles of Biochemistry (ISBN: 071677108X) still refer to the pathways as intrinsic pathway and extrinisic pathway. Could we get an expert here to look into this, because this may be either (1) vandalism or (2)a mistake, since there is no reference after the above statement in the wiki article. Meishern (talk) 11:05, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Introduction

message: I know that this page is about coagulation, which is not exactly the same thing as hemostasis, but the article does describe primary and secondary hemostasis (of which the coagulation cascade is a huge part).  In that description, platelet aggregation is listed as the first step in primary hemostasis, but I was under the impression that vasoconstriction happens before that... LanceVictor 16:39, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I learnt it that way in medical school, but would not change the article without a WP:RS. JFW | T@lk 16:02, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Pick up any anatomy and physiology textbook and in the blood section it will say vasoconstriction is the first step of coagulation. --24.148.35.61 (talk) 02:31, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  So would that suggest that anyone with "stiff" vessels would have a tendency to bleed upon injury???74.12.125.129 (talk) 16:43, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Primary hemostasis 

message: Only today I discovered there is actually a comprehensive primary text about the history of coagulation.  has a 400 page historical overview of all the characters. It is expensive (Amazon 2nd hand $250) but perhaps my library can order it from the British Library. JFW | T@lk 16:02, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Any luck on this?  I came to the Talk page kind of dissatisfied with the statement "Theories on the coagulation of blood have existed since antiquity" being followed by an early 1800s fact.  I'm curious myself what sort of earlier theories there were.  --mordicai. 21:28, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Historical source

message: This is the first Wikipedia article I've ever tried to read that seemed difficult for non-experts to understand. The theories of special relativity and quantum mechanics are mind-bending for most educated people, however, I find their Wikipedia articles easier to follow than this.
This article appears to be a very extensively documented and carefully (even lovingly) composed and edited article. Perhaps the same editors could step back and try to either write a layman's section or else water the technical language down a bit for the rest of us. The "Make Technical Articles Accessible" guideline has good material on how to approach this issue. --A. B. (talk) 22:31, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Too technical for laymen

message: I'm editing the article to respond to concerns above. I've added some organisation and have expanded on topics such as pathology and pharmacology.
Any recommendations as to WP:RS? I found the Furie & Furie article, which looks pretty decent & may actually be counted as a source for many parts of the article. JFW | T@lk 01:23, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyedit 

message: This may become interesting: the plasma levels of clusters of coagulation factors seem to have a genetic basis:  JFW | T@lk 23:01, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clusters 

message: Shouldn't we include a scab photo?
--Digitalgadget 18:14, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Quite right. To be, an article without a picture is pretty useless to visual learners.Chimchar monferno (talk) 01:33, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Here's one I made earlier.... . Courtesy of me falling off my bike. Public domain, feel free to crop etc then add to article. - ARC GrittTALK 21:39, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Photo 

message: This page is an exact copy of our article. I have asked the owners of the site to adhere to the GFDL when using Wikipedia content. JFW | T@lk 11:39, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Plagiarism

message: My dentist says clotting takes a quarter of an hour. True? There's nothing in the srticle about timing. --Guthrie (talk) 13:27, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Depends what you measure. Formation of an early platelet plug takes seconds. The bleeding time is definitely shorter than 15 minutes (2-9 depending on method is quoted). More specific in vitro tests of clotting are 11.5-16.0 seconds for the prothrombin time and 26.0-38.0 for the partial thromboplastin time. JFW | T@lk 13:52, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: How about five hours? Damn platelets!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.12.125.129 (talk) 16:46, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Time

message: hi all 
just a comment, although it has been mentioned correctly under (Physiology, The coagulation cascade) that the new pathways are in a 3 steps rather than as previously known intrensic and extrinsic pathways,but later on the explantion was in according to the old one.. 
thats why i think it should be modified. 
thanks  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.231.244.229 (talk) 11:18, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with you, the old model (extrinsic pathway + intrinsic pathway + common pathway) is no longer followed. The newer textbooks (and my lecturers) now teach the cell-surface model. Shall I attempt to revise this article? Td1wk (talk) 19:04, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: If you can provide adequate secondary sources, that would be a good endeavour.  has recently made some important contributions, so it would be good if you could make sure that your changes do not contradict those made by him. JFW | T@lk 19:18, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  "The cardiovascular system at a glance", Aaronson and Ward, 3rd edition (2007), Blackwell publishing. Page 22 is what I'm looking at now. This is one of the books on the reading list of my medical school. Td1wk (talk) 19:36, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have used Pallister CJ and Watson MS (2011). Haematology (2nd Ed.) Scion Publishing. p. 341 as a source for the diagram at the top. This book says that the the classical pathways reflect forms of activation of coagulation that occur in vitro but not in vivo, and that the separate pathways do not exist in vivo. But it goes on to say "The classical concept of blood coagulation has been exceptionally important as a means of understanding the results of laboratory screening tests of coagulation". I think the concept of the classic pathways is still useful to the understanding  of haemostasis. Graham Colm (talk) 19:54, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  OK, as long as we've made the difference apparent I think it could be beneficial to have both. From another reading of the article it seems this is the case. I'll not make any changes. Td1wk (talk) 20:18, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I will draw another diagram this weekend that illustrates the currently accepted in vivo pathway. I think it will be useful to have both. You are right, we need to make the differences between the in vitro classical pathways, which remain useful in the interpretation of laboratory tests, and what actually goes on in damaged tissues clear. This will require some skilled writing. I see this as a little like glycolysis – the pathway many of us have had to memorise - which is more complex and convoluted than it first appears, but still provides, in its simplified, textbook form, a good introduction and understanding of metabolism. Please allow me a little time to work on the diagram, then I suggest we revisit this discussion. Graham Colm (talk) 21:05, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I have finally found the time to draw the diagram; any comments? Graham Colm (talk) 22:11, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  it requires modification  

message: Article requires modification in this aspect. vWF is not in the subendothelian layer, but is present in plasma, endothelian cells and trombocytes. 
The present statement is:
Damage to blood vessel walls exposes subendothelium proteins, most notably von Willebrand factor (vWF), present under the endothelium
Also citation is needed for most of the article  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.243.248.155 (talk) 12:23, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: JFW | T@lk 13:36, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  vWF 

message: I was surprised to find myself on this page when I searched for "coagulation", since this such a specific instance of a pervasive phenomenon and it isn't a term I ever hear used to refer to blood clotting. I think "Blood clotting" is more natural, common, and recognizable, leaving "coagulation" to redirect to the general colloidal phenomenon (Flocculation). Jojalozzo 02:44, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page name? 

message: Extrinsic and intrinsic pathways theory is outdated. It reflects only the in-vitro overview of coagulation. In-vivo theory is based on Initiation, Amplification, Propagation and Localization.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Franzbischoff (talk • contribs) 14:36, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that there is an issue here. Please help us by identifying good sources (compatible with WP:MEDRS). JFW | T@lk 15:07, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: There is an issue, but it is not correct to say the in vitro pathway theory is outdated. It is still taught in universities (at least in the UK) and my students are tested on their knowledge of it. So it is important to cover this in our article. We have three diagrams in the article; the first shows the pathways in vivo,  the second shows the so-called classical pathway and the third is helpful to  understanding the regulators. What we need are acceptable sources to help expand the article to include a fuller discourse on the in vivo theory. Graham Colm (talk) 06:50, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Coagulation Pathways Theory

message: Thrombogenesis is not a synonym for coagulation: Coagulation is a normal, appropriate, homeostatic and physiological response to injury resulting in attempted repair; while thrombogenesis is the initiation of an abnormal, pathological, disease state within a vessel resulting in partial to complete obstruction of blood flow.  Pardon the redundant adjectives.
I'm going to delete the word, and if there is an objection, we can discuss it here.
````  — Preceding unsigned comment added by IiKkEe (talk • contribs) 01:37, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  '''Thrombogenesis''' in fist line of Intro 

message: The chart is somewhat outdated, in that it doe snot include HMWK and PK on the arrow from XII to XIIa; or HMWK and Ca++ on the arrow from XI to XIa; or that XI feeds back to XII and XII feeds back to the HMWK-PK complex; or that kallikrein (KK)activates XII.
There are more up to date charts out there (google coagulation cascade images) but I'm not enough of a computer person to know if permission is needed to import, how to get it if it is needed, and how to import.  Anyone interested in pursuing this?
````  — Preceding unsigned comment added by IiKkEe (talk • contribs) 03:00, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: We can't use images that are copyrighted, but if could provide a link to an up-to-date image, I will see if I can amend our current  chart(s). Graham Colm (talk) 08:37, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  cascade chart 

message: The new article covers the same topic Arthistorian1977 (talk) 20:11, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: It does not. This article is about the haemostasis - blood clotting - a physiological process generally called "coagulation". Graham Beards (talk) 20:28, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

text: Graham Beards is correct. The water treatment article would sooner be merged into precipitation (chemistry) than into blood coagulation. Although they share the abstraction of fractions of liquids transforming to solids, they are quite different at levels below that on the abstract-to-concrete spectrum, because blood coagulation is a biologically active process involving protein synthesis and proteinolysis directed by cell signaling (rather than just a process of chemical bonding alone, whereas chemical precipitation is just the latter). Quercus solaris (talk) 18:36, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed merge with [[Coagulation (water treatment)]] 

message: Could somebody please explain me this step? (And maybe esplain it better in the article) --Impériale (talk) 20:44, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Platelets → Coagulation Cascade 

message: I'm having a difficult time understanding the transition in this paragraph after the second sentence. I am not sure why thrombin being present has to do with the separation of the coag cascade into two pathways. Is it saying that the classical separation into two pathways is not warranted since thrombin is already present? is it saying that one depends on the other one? I would like to see a better transition that unite the first and second paragraph. Thanks
Quote:
The division of coagulation in two pathways is mainly artificial, it originates from laboratory tests in which clotting times were measured after the clotting was initiated by glass (intrinsic pathway) or by thromboplastin (a mix of tissue factor and phospholipids). In fact thrombin is present from the very beginning, already when platelets are making the plug. Thrombin has a large array of functions, not only the conversion of fibrinogen to fibrin, the building block of a hemostatic plug. In addition, it is the most impor...
Cleverwater (talk) 20:03, 20 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Final common pathway subsection needs clarification 

message: "Coagulation" is a more general term of colloid chemistry; though this page tells about only "Blood Coagulation", which is a specific sub-type of coagulation, and a complex process. 
So please change the page name as Coagulation (Blood) or Coagulation of blood or Blood coagulation 
------------------------
Actually 2 alternative things could be done; however one of the following alternative  will have massive side effects. So out of following two; I've chosen second one. 
Option 1- Include the general aspect of coagulation of colloid chemistry. (And too, yet we don't have a single page on general aspect of coagulation; rather a lot of related fragmented page Flocculation,Particle aggregation,Syneresis (chemistry),Agglutination (biology) etc, lacking the whole picture about agglutination. The section Colloid#Destabilization (permalink) of page Colloid, containing the word coagulation, also gives very little place to elaborate about different aspects of coagulation)
Side effect- This will pressurize to reduce detailing on blood's Coagulation mechanism; that would be very bad. (So it is better to build a separate page for general aspects of coagulation without pressurizing this page)
Option-2- Let the page as it was- just change the name of the page as "Coagulation (Blood)" or "Coagulation of blood" or "blood coagulation". 
Side effect- Pre-existing hyperlinks that was directed to page name "Coagulation", would become non-functional. 
Solution- Not very difficult; building a new page with title "Coagulation (Blood)" (or "Coagulation of blood") and moving the content of this (currently "Coagulation" ) there; and thereafter leaving the page "Coagulation" as a redirect to new page "Coagulation (Blood)". 
---------------------------------------------
Now it depends on community.
RIT RAJARSHI (talk) 11:31, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Misleading page title 

message: UK BSH doi:10.1111/bjh.16776 JFW | T@lk 10:04, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Guidelines on tests 

message: I propose merging Clotting factors into Coagulation, specifically in the 'List_of_coagulation_factors' section. The "Clotting Factors" page includes a table without additional context, and the information is mostly replicated on the "Coagulation" page, so there shouldn't be any issues. Significa liberdade (talk) 01:40, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: @Netha Hussain (WikiCred), I'd love to hear from you, given your work on the Clotting factors page. Significa liberdade (talk) 01:42, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: *Merge to Coagulation#List of coagulation factors per nom. The new columns can be easily merged to the table present there. -MPGuy2824 (talk) 04:31, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

text: *Merge : Completely agree. I had not seen the list in the coagulation page wheen I created clotting factors. Now I see that the two tables could be merged --Netha Hussain (WikiCred) (talk) 09:34, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

text: *Agree and restore the redirect at Clotting factors. - Graham Beards (talk) 10:57, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

text: * Merge. I created the article in 2004 as a redirect, and the content is best merged. Clotting factor (singular) already redirects to coagulation. JFW | T@lk 12:35, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

text: * Agree – Understanding the coagulation cascade involves all of the different factors. The table gives the reader a source available at a glance, not a new page.  – S. Rich (talk) 00:32, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:  Klbrain (talk) 20:44, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge proposal