Talk:Orthodox Baháʼí Faith

message: Hi  Please tell me why have you moved the book of Joel Marangella from "Further reading" section to "references" section?Serv181920 (talk) 07:48, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it would be useful to browse Wikipedia:Further reading. Things included in "further reading" should be neutral sources, not a partisan manifesto. Also, "further reading" is a way to point out a few sources when the reference list is too long. The current ref list has four entries, so the further reading section is really unnecessary and should probably just be deleted. Cuñado ☼ - Talk 07:45, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: But Baha'is do add what you call "a partisan manifesto" to Baha'i related articles!Serv181920 (talk) 17:04, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: And I'm sure you will be bold and fix that. Cuñado ☼ - Talk 05:03, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Further reading" section 

message: I removed this:
:Remey believed that the hands were never given any authority on their own; according to the will and testament of 'Abdu'l Baha, they were to be in the service of the guardian and to do his bidding: “This body of the Hands of the Cause of God is under the direction of the Guardian of the Cause of God.” (W&T, p.13)
The previous sentence says:
:Remey went on to declare that the Hands of the Cause were Covenant-breakers, that they lacked any authority without a Guardian, and those following them "should not be considered Baháʼís".
That sentence includes that Remey believed that they lacked authority. This is disputed and a lot could be written about it. I don't feel like this is the page to get into details, as that seems to be consolidated in Baha'i divisions. Cuñado ☼ - Talk 19:54, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Authority of the Hands 

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thread_title:  Copyright problem removed 

message: I am thinking of adding this to the article? This seems to be interesting.
:"After the death of Effendi in November 1957, a few years later, in 1960, an American hand of the cause and one of the most prominent adherents, Mason Remey (1874-1974), declared himself to be the next guardian. In a video shown on Youtube, orthodox adherents explain their views regarding the shift of leadership to Remey. According to one of the interviewees she became an adherent in 1955. During her first years as an adherent, she was told that one of the unique distinctions of Baha'ism was the guardianship. According to her, they did not fail to ask about Effendi's children and they were told that his children were either hiding for protection or in some school in Switzerland. However, when Effendi died and it appeared that there was no offspring, and Remey declared the guardianship, there was no doubt in their mind that the right religious leader to follow was Remey." Source - https://scholarship.rice.edu/bitstream/handle/1911/61990/3421441.PDF?sequence=1
I would like to take the opinion of other editors before adding this. Thanks.Serv181920 (talk) 10:20, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Sound like a fringe among a fringe theory. Cuñado ☼ - Talk 19:21, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Very much. It continues "After Remey's self-declaration as a guardian, he was shunned by the other hands of the cause. Among other reasons, perhaps the most weighty one, was the fact that 'Abdu'1-Baha, in his will and testament, envisioned a guardianship that was strictly hereditary. Remey, not being related to Effendi, was therefore a difficult candidate for a guardianship for most adherents. Whereas this might be [the] position of the overall orthodox Baha'is, a "position paper" posted by the Tarbiyat community in Las Vegas, does not view Remey as a guardian—nor his successors Joel B. Marengella and Donald A. Harvey. This community follows Reginald "Rex" King, who viewed Remey, Marengella and Harvey not as guardians but as "regents." These regents are to procure the rise of a second guardian in the future. After King's death in 1977, a "Council of Regents" was formed and it continues to be the governing body of the Tarbiyat community." (emphasis added) This seems to speak to further fragmentation and contradictory views of this supposed "community". Smkolins (talk) 14:02, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Cuñado, that was said by one Orthodox Baha'i and published by a secondary source. I will try to find out more on this. If there are more sources then I will come back on this. Smkolins, yes that's true and I think this is covered in the Baha'i divisions article.Serv181920 (talk) 15:43, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shoghi Effendi's children 

message: Hi , you are misleading the readers by mentioning your personal opinion in the lead paragraph of the article. You cannot mentioned words like 'Small' or 'extremely small' as it shows your biased approach and disrespects the Orthodox Baha'i Faith. It is a sect just like Mainstream Baha'i Faith is a sect. So lets be respectful and call it a sect without having personal grudges about the group whose beliefs you differ with. Asad29591 (talk) 18:24, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I that it is your opinion that has clear been the issue being pushed. Reliable sources have been clear about this. Smkolins (talk) 18:26, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: The source, MacEoin in this case, uses the phrase, "extremely small". Cuñado ☼ - Talk 05:13, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: In that case it should be specified that as per this specific scholar the Orthodox Baha'i Faith is assumed to be extremely small. Asad29591 (talk) 17:11, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Mr Asad29591, MacEoin is not a Baha'i, and has written antagonistically against the Baha'i Faith for the last 30 or so years. By any objective measure, his description of the Orthodox Baha'is as "extremely small" is accurate and not motivated by animosity towards them. There are only 2-3 good references to their size, all of which are dated. If there were more than a handful of Orthodox Baha'is, then that needs to be documented by independent reliable sources. Cuñado ☼ - Talk 17:18, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: You said that MacEoin "has written antagonistically against the Baha'i Faith for the last 30 or so years" however, his content about the Orthodox Bahá'í Faith is "accurate"? It's just because you agree with his infomation? There are Orthodox Bahá'í websites from distinct countries but you erased this information too.  Bha.univ (talk) 03:51, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I was responding to your supposition that MacEoin is a Baha'i author and therefore biased when speaking on Covenant-breakers. Regarding the websites you mentioned, anyone can make a website, and they are not reliable sources for anything that is likely to be challenged. Cuñado ☼ - Talk 04:07, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Using POV in lead