Talk:Drastamat Kanayan

message: This page has zero, ie zero documentation.  I suggest whoever started it should put up a few footnotes or whatever!
Why in the world does it state that Kanyan lead the Dashnaks? The Armenian Dashnak party was based in Egypt and had strongly proclaimed their allegiance to the Allied powers and denounced the Axis. There needs to be a severe overhaul in editing this page.--MarshallBagramyan 19:16, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Old talk 

message: Your comments and manner of your speech insult my intellegence. First you deny the armenian genocide, and then claim  general dro commited genocide against turks ... come now ... : )))
:: You misspelled intelligence.
::    What people such as myself are saying is not that no Armenians died. Obviously, we'll never know how many died exactly. But it was sure a hell of a lot. BUT, it was a hell of a lot ON BOTH SIDES. I added a sentence speaking of Dro's massacre of Turkish citizens following the sentence that speaks of his military successes in WW1 which characterize his work as "defense". Which is accurate but dishonest. But, it's only a half-truth! Dro took actions (i.e. massacred) non-combatants. How does one defend against a non-combatant? One doesn't. Hence, it was a half-truth. Now it's a whole-truth. 
::    Extend that problem to the whole subject, and you'll see the general problem informed people on "the other side" of this argument take: saying "a genocide of Armenians took place", and leaving it at that, isn't honest because it's only a half-truth That's enough to paint the picture of what happened to the Jews, but not to the Armenians. We're saying "there was no genocide" not like people deny the Holocaust deny the deaths of the Jews, but we say there was no genocide because that term evokes, for most people, an image of one side massacring peaceful people out of hate. (I don't actually say "there was no genocide" because of the misunderstanding it causes. Instead, I say "if there was one genocide, there was two, or if there wasn't two genocides, there was one genocide and an equally horrific slaughter of innocent Turks, or better yet there were equally horrific massacres of both sides.") The Armenians were rebelling. The Armenians massacred Turks in huge numbers, also, and along with the Russians employed the same tactics as the Ottomans, namely that of displacing populations, with or without the Russians, and massacring. Dro was notorious for this, and non-Turkish sources back this up. He wouldn't be a war hero if he hadn't killed lots of people, that's what war heroes do, sadly. And to deny he killed large numbers of non-combatants is to wear blinders. That, also, is what war heroes have tended to do throughout history. 
::    I also wrote of Dro's (terribly ironic given the genocide issue) complicity in the Holocaust. It's established that he fought for the Nazis, and it's also established that the anti-Jewish goals of the Nazis were well known. 
::    In sum, people who say the thing you believe "insults your intelligence" usually mean that either 2 genocides took place or 0. But not 1. The type of "deniers" who I am more or less in agreement with are often not disputing your statements but instead disputing the honesty and validity of neglecting to mention the statements you leave out, and the claim at every turn that the massacres of Turks were "justified" and therefore do not count as "real" massacres, somehow. (This is not surprising, given the kinds of racism I've been subject to on the Internet. People who claim to be arbiters of the truth on the genocide matter have told me that Turks are not humans. [Read below.] I assume they felt that way before they'd completed their research -- how could they have done their research and draw their conclusions in an unbiased way? There's no way such a racist and hateful thought could reside in a human mind which is capable of rendering the about that which inspires their hate.)
::    And, I'm glad you could put a smiley face on the end of your sentence. 
::    This is not a laughing matter, but it is refreshing to see an absence of terrible venom! Attacking manner of "speech" (although I assume the gentlemen was actually writing), however, seems pretty racist. All of us would be subject to the hatred of local racists for our failure to master the local language if we were to live in a foreign country. We shouldn't treat people like on the Internet, just as we shouldn't when they visit our country. 
::I don't do that to those who argue the "Armenian position" (and the position of those who agree with the Armenians), except when I find spelling, grammatical, or logical errors in their put-downs of people who take the "Turkish position" (and those who agree with the Turks). Even then, I only point out their errors (as I did above). I don't speculate as to whether or not their innate value is equivalent to that of dogs or other humans, which is something Turks are frequently subjected to on the Internet. Please treat us like humans.
::    And, yes, it would be a laughing matter if someone were to claim the Turks (and Kurds) suffered genocide but the Armenians didn't. However, "we" also feel that it would be a "laughing matter" (not too funny, though...) if people claimed only the Armenians suffered a genocide without using the same term, or a term that evokes something equally heinous, to describe what happened to the Turks at the hands of the Armenians. I don't think genocide is a good term, at least not now, because of the confusion raised by putting people like myself in the camp of "deniers", although in no way do I deny the Armenians suffered terribly. I just believe that the massacres committed by Armenians make the use of the term genocide misleading.
::    Some people say, "So what are you saying? That the Armenians deserved to be slaughtered because they fought for freedom?" No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that a massacre is a massacre, and that it's not fitting to leave it out of history just because you think the people who committed it deserved to rule themselves!
::    For my part, I believe genocide is not a proper word to describe what happened to either side, for a variety of reasons, including the evocation of the Holocaust with the word. That's simply not appropriate when describing a two-way slaughter.
::    To all the Armenians on this page: 
::(Note: This is preemptive, and I don't mean to imply an accusation of hate and racism. If it doesn't apply to you, it's not addressed to you. But believe me, I get it all the time.) I have no interest in hateful argument, although I'll engage in respectful argument. As you can probably tell, I don't have a position which involves hatred of Armenians, nor "denial" of the deaths, nor justification of the deaths. My position is simply that a comprehensive telling of the history includes the fact that equally terrible crimes were committed on both sides. So, if you have a problem with my edits, please cite something that contradicts them, but don't tell me I'm an "animal" or "non-human" or any other racist comments. Moving on...
::    I hope we can all be colleagues in improving Wikipedia, regardless of our views or race. 
::    I wrote this giant thing in the hopes that it will compel people to be serious and honest, and unbiased, instead of removing my extremely important additions to this page. (That is, I didn't put them here to mislead people, or fan the flames of racism against Armenians. I put them here to improve the ability of Wikipedia to inform people as to the truth about the role a single man played in the history of the world, including the fact that he slaughtered innocents and supported the Nazi agenda, albeit as a means to pursue interests of his people rather than as an end in itself. For what it's worth...) 
::    The man was a soldier. The life of a soldier isn't always pretty. We must be truthful about this. Or, if you want to remove this, you should be able to convince me I'm wrong, and my sources are wrong. (Or provide me with sources that will convince me.)
::    Because to say that one of the top Armenian-Russo conspirators against the Ottomans did not engage in the killings of non-combatants would be very suspect, as the slaughters of Turks by the Russians and all who fought on their side (i.e. Armenians) are well-documented. (Just as the slaughter of Armenians is well-documented.) 
''
::    And, very importantly, I hope we can all alter our views to reflect truth REGARDLESS of our races! That's what I've tried to do: my ethnicity brought me to research this subject, but my love of truth has brought me to mourn both the Armenian and Turkish losses of life, and to conclude that neither side is all villain or victim. In fact, I've concluded that both sides were quite bad, and distinguishing an ordinal relationship between their crimes is impossible. And the only villains who remain are those who lie or hate today...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.5.70.65 (talk) 18:57, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  John Stevens 

message: About in the beginning of the biography section a line reads as following: During the Armenian Genocide Dro fought off Turkish and Azeri aggression against Armenian civilians. Azerbaijan and Azeris had nothing to do with the Armenian Genocide, so this line is not correct as it also accused Azerbaijan for committing the Armenian Genocide. I removed the Azeri sentence. Baku87 18:21, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No problem.--Eupator 18:39, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Armenian Genocide 

message: ... hence the anti-armenian propaganda backed by botched up sources of reference they create themselves. This article is a good example of how credible and impartial this so-called idea of Wikipedia is.
I agree, we should maintain friendly relations with Turks and Azeris but we shouldn't let them rewrite Armenian history. The Armenian editors here should be ashamed, they are the ones giving Turks and Azeris the power to try to eliminate Armenians from the face of the Earth. First through eliminating and eradicating Armenian History from all textbooks, websites, and etc.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.174.192.171 (talk) 04:22, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Turkleri ve Azeri are the ones who maintain this page... 

message: I'm gonna remove the number "200 000" for the 812th batallion because it simply goes beyond any logic. A battalion is the size of about 200-600 men tops. 200,000 soldiers would be enough to equip 20 divisions and Armenians could have conquered Moscow by 1942 if there really were that many. I hope the logic behind the removal is understood. For more information, see Armenian Legion talk page. - Fedayee 04:28, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Number of troops 

message: I re-organized the Early Life section as it had some inconsistencies. Also did a general cleaup of the sources used. I'll be trying to find time to concentrate a little more on this article to improve the other sections and in general. - Fedayee 01:09, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: OttomanRef, I excluded what you just added because he did not join the ARF then. The youth movement he joined were various students who had joined together to resist the Czar's attempts to eliminate Armenian from the school curriculum, as a policy of Russification. He officially joined the Dashnaks after the church edict order. - Fedayee 01:29, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the information. One point. ARF in Russia began as a various student activity. That is a cited info. Given the fact that I'm not expert on the history of ARF in Russia (currently 100 years of history); At the period when Kanayan (1) "was member of global ARF (Russia-Ottoman-Persia)" (2) "he and his friends become the ARF" of their region is very amorphous. That is really the root of your argument. It is Kanayan and his friends (various students) gave the life to the organization by turning the ideologies developed in Europe and Ottoman Empire into actions. I will not reject you, but I believe the distinction is not as clear as you think and my interpretation seems closer to reality. Thanks again. --OttomanReference 01:44, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Thanks and hope the last edit would cover your point. --OttomanReference 01:50, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you believe that reflects the point, that is fine with me. However One note: the secret youth movement in the text refers to ARF (or in couple years later will be). I bet (without evidence) every member in that group followed the same foot steps. Thanks. --OttomanReference 17:09, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Alright, it essentially says that they were being highly influenced by the ARF and its ideologies. - Fedayee 23:19, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section on Early life. 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion 

message: All SS members pledged allegiance to hitler and the nazi party. It would be appropriate to acknowledge his allegiance as he was a commander of an ss battalion. Even if the conditions of the camps were harsh he still chose to fight for the nazis and wrote much in praise regarding the ideology. 92.40.196.116 (talk) 03:08, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: That part of the infobox was removed without explanation. I will re-add once I check what year exactly his association with Nazi Germany began. Revolution Saga (talk) 05:05, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe that his year of official association with the national socialist party in Germany began in 1941 however it is more than likely that he had sympathies for the movement predating the relevant annum 92.40.196.70 (talk) 17:07, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Issue regarding listing of allegiance (excludes nazi germany)