Talk:Brothers to the Rescue

message: Saw this on the 3rd opinion page.
"I am in a dispute with another user over whether to label a particular instance of an incursion into a country's airspace as a violation."
Yes. As per both FAA and DOD procedure, that would be considered a violation of airspace. Intent is not a factor when referring to airspace violations as per the ADZ guidelines of the southern US, Cuban airspace holds a similar standing (based on anecdotal evidence from pilots who've made the trip.) Cheers., now removing from 3rd opinion list. ⇒ SWATJester  Ready  Aim  Fire! 07:08, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  3rd opinion 

message: Some sources are referred to twice. This messes up the references which now don't appear correctly. Needs fixing. Jens Nielsen 20:33, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Double notes problem 

message: The same question applies here as at José Basulto.  Are you going to provide a rationale for reverting the deletion of POV forks and grammar fixes or simply pretend that your insistence on the word "violations" justifies summary reverts of material unrelated to it?  151.205.8.146 21:13, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Summary reverts

message: Could we please discuss the specifics of the contentions about the edits?  A back and forth, edit war serves no ones interests that I can see.  BruceHallman 15:31, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit war 

message: Per a request at WP:RfPP, I've protected this article to prevent further edit-warring. Please use the talk page to discuss changes to the article, and once you have reached an agreement and protetion is no longer necessary, leave a note on my talk page or request unprotection. Thanks. AmiDaniel (talk) 21:42, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protected 

message: I propose the following as the intro:
:Brothers to the Rescue (Spanish: Hermanos al Rescate) is a Miami-based organization headed by José Basulto. Formed by Cuban exiles, the group is widely known for its opposition to Cuban President Fidel Castro. The group formed in 1991 and describes itself as a humanitarian organization aiming to assist and rescue raft refugees emigrating from Cuba and to "support the efforts of the Cuban people to free themselves from dictatorship through the use of active nonviolence". Website of Brothers to the Rescue - Background and information.  In the course of many flights throughout the early 1990s, the group's planes made repeated incursions into Cuban territory. While these were condemned as airspace violations, Brothers to the Rescue believes that this constitutes legitimate resistance against the government. The Cuban government accuses them of involvement in "terrorist acts" Annex to the letter dated 29 October 2001 from the Permanent Representative of Cuba to the United Nations addressed to the Secretary-General. Summary of principal terrorist actions against Cuba (1990-2000).  "The Cuban Downing of the Planes. The News We Haven't Been Hearing...." Article from Cuban Solidarity Net  and in 1996, the Cuban Air Force shot down two Brothers to the Rescue planes, leading to international condemnation.
Please consider it.  151.205.36.69 15:32, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Brothers to the Rescue (Spanish: Hermanos al Rescate) is a Miami-based organization headed by José Basulto. Formed by Cuban exiles, the group is widely known for its opposition to Cuban President Fidel Castro. The group formed in 1991 and describes itself as a humanitarian organization aiming to assist and rescue raft refugees emigrating from Cuba and to "support the efforts of the Cuban people to free themselves from dictatorship through the use of active nonviolence" Website of Brothers to the Rescue - Background and information. . The Cuban government on the other hand accuses them of involvement in terrorist acts Annex to the letter dated 29 October 2001 from the Permanent Representative of Cuba to the United Nations addressed to the Secretary-General. Summary of principal terrorist actions against Cuba (1990-2000).  "The Cuban Downing of the Planes. The News We Haven't Been Hearing...." Article from Cuban Solidarity Net . In the course of many flights throughout the early 1990s, the group's planes made repeated incursions into Cuban territory. While these were widely considered airspace violations, Brothers to the Rescue believes that these were acts of legitimate resistance against the government. In 1996, ignoring a final warning by Cuba, two Brothers to the Rescue planes were shot down by the Cuban Air Force, leading to international condemnation.
Jens Nielsen 10:44, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Consensus seems to have been reached on this article and possibly others.  Perhaps this one should see unprotection?  151.205.52.160 20:57, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed wording of introduction

message: There seem to be some confusion over the topic of the planes being over international waters or not. Here are the facts:
# The planes did enter Cuban airspace, as is also stated in the ICAO report and, well, just about any source. U.S. radar data put him 1.7 miles into Cuban territory.
# The planes were shot down upon their return from their mission. Whether that occurred in international airspace or Cuban airspace is disputed. As is explained in the article, US radar data put them well outside Cuban airspace, Cuban data inside Cuban airspace, and combined data from two civilian vessels just outside Cuban Airspace. At the time, the ICAO commission found the data irreconcilable, but chose to find the fishing boat data "most reliable", but refrained from stating it as an actual fact. Since then, testimony from the Cuban Five trial has disputed that too, in support of the Cuban data. The Cuban view here is quite interesting. In a response to the security council resolution, they claim that United States only cooperated grudgingly with the investigation, causing numerous delays, were particularly slow in providing data on position of the aircraft, that the US provided record of radio communications had six minutes of communication omitted, and that US radar data from the nearest radar station had simply been deleted. This may well be true, but we'll probably never know the final answer.
Claiming they were shot down over international waters for a fact is dubious at least, and distorts the facts even more when fact #1 is not mentioned. The events are serious enough as they are, overdramatizing them serves only propaganda purposes.
Jens Nielsen 07:40, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shot down over international waters? 

message: Someone familiar please address this: "Juan Pablo Roque, unexpectedly left on February 26, 1996, the day before the two planes were shot down" then it says the shootdown wsa on Feb 24. So it should read either "Juan Pablo Roque, unexpectedly left on February 23, 1996, the day before the two planes were shot down" or "Juan Pablo Roque, unexpectedly left on February 26, 1996, the day after the two planes were shot down". Also the Roques part should be moved to after the shootdown part as it references the shootdown. --Justanother 04:37, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: correct, thanks, and fixed. Jens Nielsen 18:32, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Roque and the dates 

message: Succubus MacAstaroth 16:54, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  (Parts of) This article was (were) written by a bunch of commies. 

message: What do people feel this article needs to be improved further? I would like to assist in whatever way I can to help move it further up the status ladder. --SevenOfDiamonds 14:25, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am looking to add content from a letter before the UN on the group by the Ambassador from Cuba. It details what Cuba states are incidents related to the group occuring. The source is: , any questions or comments? --SevenOfDiamonds 14:34, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

text: There ought to be more information on the individual members of the group and perhaps more detailed information on their activities. I'm sure there is loads of interesting information from the court documents relating to the Cuban five trials, and it would not be wrong to add a little more information on the relation between BTTR and the Cuban Five in this article. As a last note, I think the relation between the incident and the Helms Burton Act should be further stressed here. Jens Nielsen 08:42, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Article needs?

message: In order to uphold the quality of Wikipedia:Good articles, all articles listed as Good articles are being reviewed against the GA criteria as part of the GA project quality task force. While all the hard work that has gone into this article is appreciated, unfortunately, as of May 12, 2008, this article fails to satisfy the criteria, as detailed below. For that reason, the article has been delisted from WP:GA. However, if improvements are made bringing the article up to standards, the article may be nominated at WP:GAN. If you feel this decision has been made in error, you may seek remediation at WP:GAR. 
1) The article contains a lot of controversal statements that need good sources. However inline citations are sparse and there are a number of 'fact' tags. In addition the article itself is marked with 'refimprove' tag.
2) The lead is not a summary of the article, because it contains information not mentioned in the main text.
Ruslik (talk) 11:09, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Still needs a lot of work. --John (talk) 17:28, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: GA sweeps (delisted)

message: the show "Who did I merry?" covers everything well after It may give some insight to those who don't know the story.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.74.144.252 (talk) 16:24, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  DiscoveryID 

message: We twice say that the violation of Cuban airspace is "undisputed" and "beyond question".  This does not really sound encyclopedic and later text seems to indicate U.S. radar has a different opinion.  I think we can scratch the "It is beyond question" bit, and update the "undisputed" bit to "ICAO determined" --Bertrc (talk) 16:43, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Undisputed 

message: The item above about the delisting says that "2) The lead is not a summary of the article, because it contains information not mentioned in the main text."
The intro needs info about Roque. Oteta (talk) 15:23, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Problems with the introduction 

message: I believe the article needs mention of these individuals as well.  
Proposed wording: Roque and the Wasp network
Brothers to the Rescue (BTR) was also infiltrated by the Wasp network (citation from that article) Oteta (talk) 15:23, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cuban Five / Wasp network 

message: The sentence in the Introduction describing the organization began with a reasonable summary of what it claims to do, but then continued:
: but in fact they are widely known for sponsoring terror attacks both with their own organization platform and through fundraising for criminal organizations of Cuban Americans living in Florida.
This not only sounds NPOV but is presented with no support, as the only reference on the sentence is the group's own website, where (not surprisingly) there is no mention of these alleged activities. If the accusations were in an appropriate section or sentence of their own, they might well just be worth a  tag, but the wording and placement are so strongly indicative of vandalism or edit-warring that I'm deleting them. --Thnidu (talk) 19:59, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Terrorism and criminality allegations 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Brothers to the Rescue. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20051225171627/http://www.hermanos.org:80/Background%20and%20Information.htm to http://www.hermanos.org/Background%20and%20Information.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130407004204/http://www2.fiu.edu/~fcf/background.html to http://www2.fiu.edu/~fcf/background.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060926000735/http://www.cubasolidarity.net/planes2.html to http://www.cubasolidarity.net/planes2.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060310093618/http://ssdc.ucsd.edu:80/news/notisur/h96/notisur.19960301.html to http://ssdc.ucsd.edu/news/notisur/h96/notisur.19960301.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050401233248/http://www.hermanos.org:80/ to http://www.hermanos.org/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100706074146/http://www.cidh.oas.org/annualrep/99eng/Merits/Cuba11.589.htm to http://www.cidh.oas.org/annualrep/99eng/Merits/Cuba11.589.htm
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: There  are many article that link Brothers to the Rescue with terrorists Felix Gomez, The Contras and narcotics trafficking 
why is this not mentioned in the article? 
http://www.afrocubaweb.com/basulto.htm  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.54.56.53 (talk) 08:33, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  CIA connections and narcotics trafficking