Talk:Birmingham/Archive 7

message: This citing of sources is new to me but I am finding it quite entertaining at keeping info I have written.
Taken from Zeps first press release in 1968.
http://www.led-zeppelin.com/lzpress.html
"John Bonham comes from the industrial town of Birmingham. It is not the hub of British music, but in order to get his experience he played with as many groups as he could in the area and eventually joined one of the top local outfits, The Band of Joy. The Tim Rose jaunt brought John well deserved national acclaim and opened the door to the next chapter in his success story.
Married, and still living in Birmingham, John is, according to Jimmy Page, "The champion beer drinker in England'"
"Like John Bonham, Robert hails from Birmingham and was a member of the Band of Joy, now defunct. He also played on several occasions with Alexis Korner, who fathered the blues revival in England. It was singer Terry Reid, a friend of Jimmy Page's, who suggested Robert for Led Zeppelin, and there was no need to look further."
Now we know that both musicians were actually born in 1. west bromwich 2. Redditch.
West Brom sprawls into Brum or vice versa? and Redditch (as we know today) was populated as an overspill of Birmingham.
Regardless both musicians evolved out of the Birmingham scene which at the time was less prominent in the media due to bands such as the infamous Beatles and various London based acts.
Also from here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A593101
"Jimmy Page had also received a tip from Terry Reid on a great, young blues singer from Birmingham. Page was impressed by the singer, Robert Plant, and his vocal range. He invited Plant over where they explored each other's music tastes by playing their favourite records."
Also from here: http://www.933thebone.com/Boneoffame/2004/zeppelin.htm 
"Page met bassist John Paul Jones while the two worked on Donovan's "Hurdy Gurdy Man" in April of 1968, and the two discussed the potential of joining forces. That summer, Page traveled to Birmingham to see and potentially recruit a young singer named Robert Plant, who was fronting his own group, Band of Joy. The trio was now lacking only a drummer, and Plant recommended his Band of Joy bandmate John Bonham. In September of 1968, the four played their first rehearsals in London,..."
Also from here: http://www.cdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=98 
"...the shorter, more muscular sounds of "What Is And What Never Should Be", which is alternately taut rock and electric folk, and the dizzying, tripped-up riff of "Dancing Days" that recalls Plant's pre-Zeppelin days in the dance halls of his hometown of Birmingham."
And that was from a quick search on the net, Led Zeppelin and Rob Plant/John Bonham should remain, the press often mistakingly suggest that Led Zeppelin are from Brum, in actual fact two of the most important musicians of the band learned their trade in brum and were born within a few miles of the city. Nick Boulevard 22:20, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: In my experience of living especially in the south. People are generally ignorant of geography and dont often understand the distinction between Birmingham and the Black Country, and often incorrectly describe the entire West Midlands conurbation area as simply "Birmingham". In rather the same way people ignorantly refer to the entire greater Manchester area as "Manchester". So I'm not sure your links prove anything other than ignorance of geography. Gem 21:59, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Led Zeppelin

message: I have to say this article has improved quite a lot since I was last here. It is far better proportioned regarding the obese culture section. I had a go at getting the culture section to a sensible size and improving the proportions of the article some weeks ago. But was rather disheartened to find my changes had been largely reverted a few days later. I note that the current revision is similar to my version. Well done to all involved. Gem 21:30, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Improvement

message: Ok, Andy Mabbett...
Please, why have you just deleted my short inclusion of the popular music intro here when you will have seen that it exists already on the arts page (you edited the page not long aftre me) It was discussed there to avoid exactly this kind of behaviour, unfortunately you have also removed my inclusion of a new band and reference to Jimmy Page in his early years in a Brum band, I would like to stress that I have been out ALL evening and within five - ten minutes of me editing here you have jumped on what I have written and now its exits no longer? I am fed up with this and to be honest you are close to driving me away. Nick Boulevard 5 July 2005 23:23 (UTC)
:For the reason stated in my edit summary. If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, do not submit it.. Andy Mabbett
::Andy:That caution is not an instruction for you to delete and revert wholesale.  Your persistent reversion of changes is discourteous and unconstructive.  You have been told this repeatedly by several editors. Please stop. —Theo  (Talk) 6 July 2005 11:03 (UTC)
:::I've just dealt wth a copy of the same comment, which you posted on my talk page. Andy Mabbett 6 July 2005 11:27 (UTC)
::::Several things: On your talk page you told me that I was wrong.  I stand by every part of what I said but I cannot imagine that citing diffs will be enough to dissuade you from your stance.  Let me rephrase it to make it incontrovertible: I find many of your edits and their associated summaries discourteous and unconstructive. To take the most recent example: why is Three of the four members of Led Zeppelin played in Birmingham rock bands. "exagerated trivia" (as per your edit summary when you deleted it) while the subsequent sentence In the 1970s members of the Move and the Moody Blues formed the Electric Light Orchestra and Wizzard. is acceptable to you? I accept that it would be too detailed to mention Band of Joy in the main article, but are the Birmingham associations of Led Zep any more trivial than the others? —Theo  (Talk) 8 July 2005 08:56 (UTC)
:::::To answer your last point first: yes. The Move and Idle Race were Birmingham based, with all or nearly all members from Birmingham. ELO played up their Birmingham connections, writing songs about the City. The bands referred to in connection with Led Zep may have had some members from Birmingham, but there is no evidence that they were Birmingham-centric. As to your personal feelings; I'm at a loss to explain their distance from reality. Andy Mabbett 8 July 2005 18:04 (UTC)
::::::I do not wish to jump on you here Andy but we have had this discussion before about Nick Mason, how do any of us know that Robert Plant and John Bonham were specifically not Birmingham-centric? Robert Plant used to live in my old village and many of the locals refered to him as a Brummie from his accent which he seemed not to mind? Besides we are not basing the wikipedia article on Birmingham bands or musicians that are/were Birmingham-centric? I am sure that there are many musicians world wide that either love or loathe their home towns but that has no bearing whatsoever on where they come from, and one thing that you seem to have forgotten, If you were familiar with the lyrics of Robert Plant you would know of the many links in his songs to JR Tolkien, mordor etc, and as I recall you seemed to battle quite ferrociously over keeping Tolkien closely linked to Birmingham. See your own talk page. :) Nick Boulevard 8 July 2005 18:48 (UTC)
:::::::So please can we include what exists on the arts page re: Led Zeppelin, they were after all one of the most successful rock bands ever. Nick Boulevard 12:24, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: More deletion