Talk:Cleveland Browns

message: It says, "[the Browns] are the only team named after a person." That's not true: the Buffalo Bills are named after Buffalo Bill (aren't they?).  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thegoldenconciseencyclopediaofmammals (talk • contribs) 05:21, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have reliable source for this? 107.0.17.203 (talk) 13:40, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Not the only team named after a person

message: In the "infobox" for the Browns, the following line appears:
:: League championships won:  AAFC:  1946, 1947, 1948, 1949.  NFL:  1950, 1954, 1955, 1964.
Yet the section "NFL Dominance follows AAFC Dominance" concludes with the clause:
:: ...the Browns simply resumed their dominant position among pro football teams, ... capturing four championships during the 1950s.
So is there a missing championship in the infobox, or did the Browns only win three championships in the 50's?
The Browns are widely known as "The Clowns" to NFL fans, should we include that?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.186.42.227 (talk) 05:42, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The Browns only won three championships in the '50s. This is now reflected in the article.--Batard0 (talk) 17:19, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  How many 50's championships? 

message: National Football League is currently a candidate on WP:IDRIVE. Vote for it if you are interested!--Fenice 20:39, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Improvement drive

message: There should be an explanatory note about #45 Don Fleming, ie, who was he and why is his number retired. Hanksummers (talk) 19:36, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Retired numbers

message: He looks suspiciously like one of the Snap, Crackle and Pop Elves. --Sliat 1981 04:25, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mascot 

message: On the Browns sleeves, they wear an "AL". I believe this is a recognition of former owner Alfred Lerner, who is credited with bringing the Browns back to Cleveland in 1999. Does anyone know if I'm right?
It's actually in memorium of his death from cancer in October 2002.
*This is already mentioned in the "Logo and uniforms" section of the article: "...to honor Al Lerner who died in 2002 after buying the resurrected team in 1999..." Zzyzx11 (Talk) 21:58, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alfred Lerner 

message: During a sizable period after their 3 heartbreaking playoff losses in the eighties the Browns used only their away (white) jerseys, even for home games. As far as I know they are the only team to have done so. I'd like to see a mention of this and a fleshing out of it if anyone has some details or can source the specifics of it. It is a unique and interesting aspect of Browns history and it would be nice to see it mentioned if anyone has accurate information. Velophile (talk) 07:46, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, they're not.  When the franchise was re-formed in 1999, the Browns altered the colors subtly.  They also changed the descriptions to simply "Brown" and "Orange."  SSUR.org compiles its database from the team's official style guide.  I can find no reference to "Seal Brown" on the Browns' website, nor can I find a reliable primary source to contradict the SSUR.  I'm going to adjust the infobox.  If anybody can demonstrate that they are wrong, please correct, but until then it's the most reliable source we have.  SixFourThree (talk) 15:01, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uniform 

message: I have begun to overhaul the article in the name of keeping it a bit more concise. As a lifelong Browns fan for 30 years, I understand that passions run high about our team. That being said, however, there is plenty of space that can be freed up. Links connecting names to their own histories (e.g. Chuck Noll has his own article, no need to take up Browns space talking about the Steelers) can eliminate some of this fluff. Also, opinions, overheated language and possessive claims made in print on Wikipedia (I deleted the words "our team") create neutrality issues. In any case, through removing what were mostly redundancies, the article went from 64 to 62 KBs already.  If you want to weigh in on this, feel free. But let's talk about it first before we just go headlong into any conflicts. Ryecatcher773 03:15, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I still think you need a brief paragraph in the lead introduction section about the Art Modell-1995 relocation controversy. There are still users that come in here with the misconception that the current Browns are a 1999 expansion team, and not the fact that the Browns' franchise, colors, and history has been technically continuous since the 1940s. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 03:11, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Except that they are an expansion team. The colors and history are only a benefaction of legal technicality. Earnest Byner being traded for Mike Oliphant, regardless of how many degrees of separation you may try, has no connection to anyone currently on the roster. Meanwhile, Matt Stover was a drafted by the Giants and signed on as a free agent with the Browns in 1991, yet his career record shows he has only played for the same team since 1996 -- even though the Browns' entire roster moved to Baltimore in 1996. If you really want to avoid confusing people who have no previous idea of who the Browns are, or who Art Modell is for that matter, then do not put it in the opening paragraph. Save it for a subsection. It is an expansion team. We had an expansion draft. There are just some strange circumstances surrounding it, and the only reason we even got that was because the NFL was politicking to avoid bad press. Ryecatcher773 04:42, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Overhaul

message: "The highlight of the season came from the television side of the season. Bill Belichick was the breakout star of "Browns Insider" which was co-hosted by Jim Mueller. Belichick explained such concepts as "Metcalf up the middle," the brilliance of drafting a fullback with the 11th pick in the draft (the third running back as top pick of the Browns in three of four years) and why the double tightend, one wide-receiver offensive set was unstoppable."
This sounds like it was written by a bitter fan. Can someone do a rewrite? I'm not well versed on this section of Browns history. BrainyIowan 16:46, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. I've already started to clean this up... unfortunately, my time is limited to about ten minute intervals (I have a busy 10 month old son running around!)Ryecatcher773 22:03, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section on Belichick 

message: I have seen many people vandalising the article, replacing Browns with Clowns. I also have added this to my watchlist and this article is vandalised often. Should we put it up for protection?
-Domovoi 17:42, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would say that might be a good idea. Ryecatcher773 18:21, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: I added the unsourced tag as this article doesn't have inline references or cite it's sources well enough. See the Chicago Bears for a good example.  Tayquan hollaMy work 19:34, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sourcing still needs to be improved indeed; it's a work in progress.--Batard0 (talk) 17:22, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Unsourced

message: Does anybody else think that the Brady Quinn era begins is a little premature?
::I don't think it's premature. In the eyes of the fans and the media, that is how this time will be defined.Chris Nelson 17:15, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, to refer to this time as the Brady Quinn era is at least a year or two premature. It is idiotic to refer to this as an era when the player in question has not made any meaningful contributions except holding out during the preseason.Hx823 23:58, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, i do agree that it is a new era starting this year, but as far as saying its the Brady Quinn era, i dont know about that, for he hasnt even played a down in the regular season...maybe, the derek anderson era, but thats a whole different storyFanofranz (talk) 17:49, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Premature

message: Could this be included considering the teams postseason collisons during the late 80s (The Drive and The Fumble quickly come to mind).  WAVY 10 20:35, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I do agree that there is some hatred between Browns fan and Broncos fans, but i dont think most people would recognize it, until you mentioned the drive or the fumble, unlike the browns and steelers or bengals Fanofranz (talk) 17:51, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Browns-Broncos Rivalry? 

message: The infobox incorrectly states 1944, the first paragraph states that it was "founded" in '45 and the history section (most acurately IMHO) states 1946.  Not a good job of providing clarity.  Also nothing referenced.
If we are to take the earliest possible date (even if it was a "paper team" then the Pittsburgh football team should have November 12, 1892 as its founding year, or at the very least 1932.  
:This is a difficult question, because McBride secured the rights to a franchise in the AAFC in late 1944 and then began hiring coaches and players in 1945, but the team didn't start playing until 1946. Most sources seem to say it was established in 1946, so I'd propose going with an official establishment year of 1946, but saying the team's beginnings date to 1944, etc.--Batard0 (talk) 17:26, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The page is about the history of the Cleveland Browns. It is not about the history of the National Football League. Saying that something legitimate in the history of the team should be excluded because of non-recognition by the NFL is absurd. Your argument is completely irrelevent.Primium mobile 23:28, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The Pro Football Hame of Fame website lists the AAFC titles (click on the "Facts and Firsts" tab) Zzyzx11 (Talk) 01:55, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

text: AAFC titles are clearly part of the Browns' history, which includes but is not limited to the NFL. Therefore, these titles should be presented exactly as they are: four AAFC championships (and of course four NFL championships.--Batard0 (talk) 17:32, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

text: This is true. It's really a question of when the team acquired some kind of legal existence. I said above perhaps we should say 1946, with origins in 1944, but sources (not to mention the facts) are difficult to characterize. If we had some kind of source saying when the Browns were actually founded, i.e. that there was a company that owned an AAFC team in Cleveland, then we'd have something definite, but I doubt we'll ever get that. This is tricky stuff.--Batard0 (talk) 17:32, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Founded in a year that no football was played 

message: "The 1995 season was a disaster on the field as well. After starting 3-1, the rumors of relocation and the eventual announcement cut the legs out from under the team. They finished 5-11, including a 1-6 record in the seven games after the announcement. When fans in the Dawg Pound became unruly during their final home game against the Cincinnati Bengals, action moving towards that end zone had to be moved to the opposite end of the field. The Browns won, the only game the team won after the news of the Browns' move got out."
On one hand it says that they won two games after the announcement (their record was 3-1 and then 5-11, 5-3=2) and on the other it says , "The Browns won, the only game the team won after the news of the Browns' move got out." - so which is it? Yonatan talk 18:22, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Contradiction?

message: I am removing the trivia section (which is discouraged anyway), because the three items have little value beyond as nuggets of trivia.  I don't see how to incorporate them into the article in any meaningful way - if somebody else can, please do so.  --Chancemichaels 17:36, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Removing Trivia Section

message: This article states the Browns were not named after Paul Brown, but rather the boxer Joe Louis, going further to state that the idea of the team being named after Paul Brown has just been a long rumor or myth. I can't find any source that backs this statement. As far as I've always known, the Browns were named after Paul Brown. Joe Louis had no ties to Cleveland (he worked in rival city Detroit when he was young). The Joe Louis article makes absolutely no mention of any connection either. Here's how the story is typically presented: "In 1945, Arthur McBride brought the All-America Football Conference (AAFC) team to Cleveland. He ran a newspaper contest to name the team and offered the winner a $1,000 war bond. Many entries suggested the name "Browns" after Head Coach Paul Brown, but Coach Brown felt it wasn't "proper" to name the team after himself. Instead, the winning suggestion was the Panthers. However, there was a semi-pro team called the Cleveland Panthers in the '20s, and the owner still had the rights to the name. So, Coach Brown reluctantly agreed to name the team the Browns." --Heavy 17:43, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin of team name 

message: :Image:Cleveland Browns B logo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 04:26, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Cleveland Browns B logo.png

message: Can someone explain what this means?  Specifically, I'm wondering which subtropical teams are north of the Mason-Dixon line and wear (or have worn) white at home on a regular basis. --  timc  talk   17:59, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, that makes about as much sense as the title MTV Half-Hour Comedy Hour meant back in the early 90's. Besides the obvious ridiculousness of that sentence, Florida is the only sub-tropical state in the union that has NFL teams... why not just say: "the only team not from Florida" ...Ryecatcher773 (talk) 19:18, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wearing white at home 

message: :Image:Browns 1950 Logo.PNG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 23:29, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Browns 1950 Logo.PNG

message: A while ago, there was a statement in the article's Logos and Uniforms section stating that because the Browns do not have a helmet logo per se, when FOX aired scores in a halftime/postgame recap they would use the color orange to represent the team. I noticed that sentence was removed, so I'm not sure if FOX still does that or if they use an alternate logo to represent the team now (will check DVD's at home).  WAVY 10 Fan (talk) 17:25, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Appearance with [[NFL on FOX|FOX]] 

message: Would somebody like to step up to the plate and create a Cleveland Browns Mascots page for CB, Chomps, TD, and Trapper? All 4 are their official mascots and it is still a dead link in the main Browns template. Right now, I do not have the time to create one. Go for it!!! JohnnySeoul (talk) 16:23, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Browns' Mascots page 

message: This article is desperately missing a big part on how the Browns aquired their players once becoming reactivated. Anyone know?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.80.228.107 (talk) 06:55, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  expansion draft 

message: Would somebody PLEASE</B> reorganize this table chonologically like the HOF table??Hx823 (talk) 23:00, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Fish+Karate 13:39, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Legends 

message: Has there been any updates in the Cleveland area news whether or not the Browns are getting a new-look uniform for the 2009 season or will be delayed until 2010? JohnnySeoul (talk) 00:07, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  New uniforms in 2009 or 2010? 

message: I know my memory isn't as good as it used to be, but I certainly don't recall them being referred to as the Kardiac Kids in any other season save for the 1980-81 season. Anyone else (who would necessarily have to be over the age of 30 to qualify) who actually remembers that season care to weigh in? Ryecatcher773 (talk) 06:23, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I was there. You are right that the Kardiac Kids moniker really only refers to the 1980 season. However, I think it's appropriate to use it to label the section as it is certainly the most memorable part of the 1971-84 stretch. Were those events more recent, I'd be more picky, but this far out I think it is OK to lump it all. Aside from that one season, those years were pretty much identical in level of mediocrity acheivement.Carboncopy (talk) 16:17, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Kardiac Kids... 1971-84? 

message: By treating the Baltimore Ravens as an expansion team and the new Browns as a reactivation of the old and supposedly suspended Browns, the NFL totally defied logic and insulted the intelligence of pro football fans, all for the purpose of currying favor with Cleveland fans.  The old Browns moved to Baltimore, with its current owner (Modell) and many if not all the players who had played with the Browns.  That is a classic case of predecessor franchise and successor franchise.  The real expansion team was the new Browns, a brand-new team that had absolutely no right to the records, statistics, or awards compiled by the old Browns.  Wearing the old uniforms didn't and doesn't entitle the new team to be identified with the old one.  Sorry, Browns fans, but the team records, etc. through 1995 belong in Baltimore, not Cleveland.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jherling (talk • contribs) 05:18, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, believe what you want, but the records are still Cleveland's. You have to also remember that the move really was a surprise to Cleveland fans, maybe not as much as the Baltimore Colts's move to Indy, but close to that.  Moreover, the fans really had a passion for the team and had passed a levy that would give the team a new stadium, so such a move that Modell made really would have upset the fans.  Given that, the compromise seemed like a small repayment to the fans. CardinalDan (talk) 05:23, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

text: Even so, whether or not all fans consider the pre-1995 and post-1999 Browns to be the same franchise is irrelevant.  Legally they are one in the same and the official records of the Pro Football Hall of Fame, NFL, Cleveland Browns, and Baltimore Ravens all support that.  Spin or not, it is the reality.  Also true is that the Browns case was unprecedented.  In all practicality, of course, the team moved to Baltimore in 1995; however, legally only the personel moved and a new franchise agreement was given to Modell for Baltimore.  There is a note in this article or one of the other related articles that mentions the "Modell franchise" that touches on the continuity between the pre-1995 Browns and Ravens as a matter of sourced perspective. --JonRidinger (talk) 00:31, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Browns reactivation

message: Colek3 (talk) 03:10, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe it is correct as written, though perhaps confusing depending on the reader. Cleveland is the only team have BOTH characteristics at the same time: Neither host nor play in a Superbowl. On the other hand, I think it's a statement of dubious value. The reasons for never having hosted a SuperBowl have no relationship to Cleveland's failure to reach the game. The statement implies there's some sort of additional level of failure in evidence. Carboncopy (talk) 03:45, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The claim may be of questionable noteworthiness, but please note that this claim is sourced:  The New York Times affirmed it in the article, "Five Stories With No Super Bowl Chapters" (print date January 31, 2009).  That it would be mentioned in a major publication such as the NYT led me to try to reword the claim, instead of removing it as I originally considered doing. -- JeffBillman (talk) 19:45, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Hosting Statement

message: User: 216.183.186.16, please quit removing the following paragraph without first giving reasons to do so:
"A 2006 study conducted by Bizjournal determined that Browns fans are the most loyal fans in the NFL. The study, while not scientific, was largely based on fan loyalty during winning and losing seasons (however, it does not account for the ratio of winning to losing seasons by a team), attendance at games, and challenges confronting fans (such as inclement weather or long-term poor performance of their team). The study noted that Browns fans filled 99.8% of the seats at Cleveland Browns Stadium during the last seven seasons, despite a combined record of 36 wins and 76 losses over that span."
The paragraph is well written and has sources to back up the claims.--Swellman (talk) 22:40, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of content 

message: I believe it is Seth McFarlane or Mike Henry is fan of the Browns.  McFarlane created Cleveland Brown whose name is based on the Browns and Henry voices him.  Can someone please let me know if I'm right.  I don't have time to pour over every Family Guy interview to double check on it but I am positive I'm right. Timmyfitz161 (talk) 10:48, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Do we really need to have yet another article referencing Family Guy? -- JeffBillman (talk) 21:48, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not true, which is why you can't find a source for it. Also, you may be surprised to learn that none of us have the time (or desire) to read every Family Guy interview either. — Bdb484 (talk) 12:15, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fan question 

message: The article currently states (with no citation): "The AAFC dissolved after the 1949 season, due largely to the Browns' near absolute domination of the league."  The late-1940s Browns were a very strong team, but were they really strong enough to drive the whole rest of the league out of business?  They were never more than a game or two better than the 2nd place team.  Three of their four AAFC championship games were won by reasonably close margins (less than two touchdowns.)  During their first few years in the NFL, they were initially just as dominant as they had been in the AAFC, which raises the question, "Why didn't they kill off the NFL as well?" Timothy Horrigan (talk) 00:21, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, at that point the NFL had several decades' worth of history behind it.  Far cry from a new league that one team consistently wins.  Still, that's a strong statement and needs a citation.  I'm going to pull that one statement out, unless and until somebody can provide a source.  SixFourThree (talk) 19:09, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The main reason for the dissolution and merger seems to have been a talent war between the NFL and AAFC that was raising player salaries and hence eating into owners' profits. There were numerous "peace" meetings between the leagues leading up to the dissolution and merger, and these talks centered around the issue of competition for talent, although there's no doubt that the Browns' dominance played a role, given that attendance dwindled for games in later years as fans lost interest in lopsided victories. This is all now cited in the article.--Batard0 (talk) 16:28, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  How Come They Didn't Kill the NFL As Well? 

message: Chomps is definitely a mascot of the Browns according to this website.  In terms of an official logo like the Brownie Elf, no, Chomps is not something the team uses on a logo, but it's the along the lines of Slider for the Indians and Moondog for the Cavaliers; those are definitely mascots, but really have nothing to do with the team name.  A mascot can be related to the logo (like at most colleges and high schools), but especially in pro sports mascots do not necessarily need to be reflected by the official logo.  I don't think the Brownie Elf ever was a mascot in the sense that someone dressed up as a Brownie Elf and walked around the stadium. The Brownie Elf was much more of a logo than a mascot.  --JonRidinger (talk) 20:35, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Is there an unresolved issue on this score? Chomps is called the mascot in the info box and isn't discussed further at this point.--Batard0 (talk) 16:32, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mascot 

message: :"Furthermore, Cleveland has never hosted a Super Bowl, making it the only NFL city to have neither hosted nor sent a team to the Super Bowl."
This is part of the introduction/summary part of the article, and it is true, but it is irrelevant to the history of the Cleveland Browns.  It should be deleted from this article and moved to the athletics/sports information regarding Cleveland, Ohio.  It is also a misnomer, 'NFL city' is hard to define here, as four NFL teams (the Buccaneers, Giants, Jets, and Patriots) are not representatives of a specific city but larger regions.  Out of those, the Patriots are not even headquartered in a city, they are in Foxborough Massachusetts, a small town roughly halfway between Providence and Boston.  Some teams don't even have the name of the city they represent in their name, the Arizona Cardinals, Carolina Panthers and Tennessee Titans are all examples (They are headquartered Phoenix, Charlotte and Nashville respectively, and directly represent those cities).  Furthermore, hosting a Superbowl does not require being an 'NFL city', Stanford and Pasadena California (Pasadena with FIVE) are at least two examples of a city having stadiums that hosted Superbowl's without ever having headquartered an NFL team.  Hosting a Superbowl has more to do with having a proper facility, Jacksonville Florida expanded their stadium in order to host larger events like the Superbowl and the annual NCAA FL/GA game, not because the Jaguars are headquartered in Jacksonville.  What I'm getting at here, is that a city hosting a Superbowl and a team making it to a Superbowl are not related, making the statement even more irrelevant, even if the source articles discuss the anecdote (I don't know if they do or not, I didn't read them).
:Yes, this is not a significant fact, and in fact Cleveland did host numerous championship games in the pre-AFL-NFL merger years. It has been removed.--Batard0 (talk) 16:25, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removing an irrelevant statement. 

message: I noticed that the Browns logo has been removed, which I'm assuming is because the logo's image is the same as that of the copyright-protected helmet. Is there anything that can be done to get some kind of fair-use Browns logo on the page, or will the page be stuck with that blank box? LouisianaFan (talk) 23:55, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: This issue has been fixed. I'm not sure, however, if the script "Cleveland Browns" that appears on the page is an official logo; I think the helmet logo serves as the team's main official logo, as that's how it seems to appear on its official website. I may be wrong, but it would be nice to clear this up. --Batard0 (talk) 16:23, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

text: Agreed. This is confusing.  – Modal Jig (talk) 16:07, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: It was from the source. In addition to not having a logo on the helmet, the Browns primary logo is also unique in that it's just the helmet. I reworded the lead to reflect the uniqueness of not having a logo on the helmet since there didn't seem to be a way to include the uniqueness of the logo itself without it cumbersome or confusing. --JonRidinger (talk) 17:18, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  What to do about the logo? 

message: I propose we model this article on the New York Jets article, the only NFL team page I'm aware of that has achieved GA status. As a first step in doing this, I propose we incorporate most of the historical material on the main Cleveland page into the team history page, saving four or five paragraphs for a brief rundown on the main page. This would shorten the article considerably, but most of the material that's there would be moved and not lost. Doing this, moreover, would make the article more easy to digest, especially for people who aren't fans of the Browns or just need to know the basics. We'd also have to eventually move material on logos and uniforms to their own pages and make some other adjustments, but I think in general it makes sense to model the article after the layout and tone of the Jets article and then go from there. If it's unsuitable, it can always be modified. Logistically speaking, I'd propose 1) creating a four- to six-paragraph synopsis of the team's history and then 2) incorporating detailed historical material into the team history page for further development and then 3) deciding what to do from there.--Batard0 (talk) 17:46, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  History proposal 

message: # The devotion of the Cleveland Browns fans is renown
# This has the makings of a great article
# Putting a picture of every retired uniform is a bit exuberant. I invite you to delete pictures of retired jersey numbers - it's such a waste of space. It is absolutely abominable and borderline disgraceful to a Brown fan to waste so much space on it.
# further reading, Brown with Clary - that's not further reading, that's mandatory to be cited
# per Piascik: The Best Show in Football: The 1946–1955 Cleveland Browns have an arguable place as the greatest football of all time, where's that book in this article?
# per Maraniss: When Pride Still Mattered, Lombardi learned his trade from Brown
# per Piascik and Maraniss, a great case can be made that Brown was the greatest football coach of all time 
Guys, you gotta get rid of those pictures of those jerseys, it's not high quality stuff Ijustreadbooks (talk) 02:49, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: listing the present day team roster is off the hook, but as long as you guys are having fun :) Ijustreadbooks (talk) 02:52, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  A little criticism 

message: Howdy all.  This probably isn't a big deal, but the orange background color in the infobox title (#de6108) doesn't match the orange shown for the team colors in the infobox (#e31942). I'm guessing that infobox title background should be changed, but I'm not seeing where in the template code to change it. Thoughts?--Rockfang (talk) 07:25, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Difference in orange color 

message: I have come across many  articles
suggesting the Joe Louis name origin is a myth. I don't know the definite answer.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stereotonic24 (talk • contribs) 19:18, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name Origin 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Cleveland Browns. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120101230537/http://www.riddell.com:80/innovation/history/ to http://www.riddell.com/innovation/history/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20081206075415/http://www.clevelandbrowns.com:80/team/history/results/1964_stats.php to http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/history/results/1964_stats.php
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20081206075318/http://www.clevelandbrowns.com:80/fans/backers/results.php?id=INT to http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/fans/backers/results.php?id=INT
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20140503015547/http://djsdoingwork.com/2014/04/21/machine-gun-kelly-visits-the-browns-facilities-photo// to http://djsdoingwork.com/2014/04/21/machine-gun-kelly-visits-the-browns-facilities-photo//
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello,
I am writing this message because I feel like this should be the revision for Template:Cleveland Browns, and not this. My revision (the old revision) is easier for readers to follow, and is also more consistent with other National Football League (NFL) team templates. I am, however reluctant, open to discussion. Charlesaaronthompson (talk) 11:23, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: If you wish to discuss the  template, then please open a discussion at Template talk:Cleveland Browns.  Thanks.  Levdr1lp / talk 16:40, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Template:Cleveland Browns 

message: The NFL doesn't recognize AAFC statistics. Is there a way that we can point out (when listing the number of league titles for the Browns) that their AAFC Championships aren't recognized the same way as their NFL Championships are (as the AAFC was an inferior league)? The NFL only recognizes the Browns as four time champions, not eight.50.136.139.204 (talk) 03:09, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: The template already differentiates between the AAFC and NFL titles. Since this article and template isn't part of the NFL, I don't see why there needs to be any other changes or clarification. The Browns have won 8 league titles: 4 in one league and 4 in another. The reason the NFL doesn't recognize AAFC stats is explained at All-America Football Conference#The AAFC and the NFL record book. In short, it wasn't a merger the way the AFL merged with the NFL in 1970, it was more a case of the NFL taking what were perceived as the three strongest teams at the time, all of whom were in markets that did not have NFL teams (Baltimore, Cleveland, and San Francisco). The Pro Football Hall of Fame, however, does recognize AAFC stats. Pre-merger and pre-Super Bowl AFL teams have a similar setup in the infobox and template with a "league title" for the AFL, such as the 1963 San Diego Chargers. --JonRidinger (talk) 03:32, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: AAFC Championships

message: I would like to request an edit be made to the Cleveland Browns page, indicating the January 5th hiring of Paul DePodesta to replace Ray Farmer. Reference: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14508016/cleveland-browns-hire-new-york-mets-paul-depodesta-chief-strategy-officer
Devinwhitford (talk) 20:16, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. Mz7 (talk) 03:58, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 5 January 2016 

message: There have been multiple instances of vandalism on this page in the past day, particularly after the hiring of the new head coach. I suggest a protected or semiprotected status be applied. Cultred (talk) 21:51, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent vandalism 

message: Given that the president & general manager fields in the infobox are used for both chief strategy officer Paul DePodesta and EVP of football operations Sashi Brown, respectively, as well as the fact that the provided sources define each's role as the "de facto" president/GM, I think we can get away w/ simply placing "de facto" in parentheses for each.  The full titles can be limited to the body to avoid cluttering the infobox, particularly as they are not the commonly used terms for WP NFL content.  Levdr1lp / talk 16:22, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: As long as the "official titles" are in the body, that's good enough I guess.  Of course, using traditional titles like president and GM instead of these cutesy-poo variations like the Browns are using would make life easier, but what are you gonna do? Vjmlhds (talk) 17:27, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  You really need to get off this thing about labeling DePodesta as "de facto president".   What was true 3 years ago doesn't hold water today, as the Browns - who change front office hierarchies and coaches as often as most people change their socks - have completely revamped things since the above discussion took place.  DePodesta has fallen down the pecking order, while Haslam son-in-law JW Johnson (EVP) and John Dorsey (GM), have risen.  Don't understand why you're being so stubborn about this, other than sheer rigidity and just looking to pick a fight (because you see that it's me making a change and you just can't help yourself). Vjmlhds (talk) 13:53, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: - The front office list from the Browns official website does not say how DePodesta's role may have changed since 2016. You are inferring his role is subordinate to the owners' son-in-law merely based on the list order. While this may be true, it's not explicitly stated (in other words, WP:OR). Mr. Johnson's title of "executive vice president" is also shared by Mr. Jenkins -- and he is listed *below* DePodesta. Moreover, DePodesta's own title has not changed. So the list is vague on "pecking order". And I still don't agree with using a title which is not commonly used in NFL Wikipedia content. Levdr1lp / talk 20:42, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well, now where do we go from here...Jimmy and Dee's daughter Haley and son-in-law JW Johnson are now also listed as owners, with Johnson also having the title of EVP.  Also the 4 Haslams are ranked above everyone else, so wouldn't that now clearly make JWJ over DePodesta in the pecking order?  Vjmlhds (talk) 15:14, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: - You're confusing two separate issues. First- does either the daughter or son-in-law have an article? No, so they don't belong in the navbox. Second- even if the son-in-law is the new de facto president, you haven't provided any sources to verify that OR claim (I think I made my views on interpreting the list order clear in my last post). Levdr1lp / talk 15:45, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text:  Here's an article from Crain's Cleveland Business, detailing Johnson being brought in to the fold, with the eventual plan being to assume full ownership.  And within that reference is a link to a CBS Sports article, talking about Johnson's increasing power in the franchise. Vjmlhds (talk) 17:56, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: - I am reverting your edit from last September, largely for the same reasons stated above. Still no source to verify that Mr. Johnson is now "president" (or equivalent). Still more original research -- "increasing power in the franchise", etc. -- those are your words, and regardless if they're true, they do not verify your claim. I also don't see how you could justify removing the Dee Haslam link, who unlike Mr. Johnson actually has a dedicated article. Levdr1lp / talk 14:02, 28 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  DePodesta & Brown infobox titles 

message: I personally feel like each of the Cleveland Browns' championship titles should be nested, as seen in this diff. My reasoning behind nesting the championship navboxes is that it groups like content, collapses/saves space, and avoids template creep. I welcome any discussion in hopes of reaching consensus here. Charlesaaronthompson (talk) 01:30, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: - You know there is already a discussion on this topic at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League#nesting NFL Championship navboxes.  Levdr1lp / talk 10:31, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nesting championship navbox(es) 

message: It is a well-known fact that FirstEnergy Stadium was originally known as Cleveland Browns Stadium when it opened in . As such, the stadium's former name of Cleveland Browns Stadium should be included in the infobox of the main article. The stadium's website even says as much, as seen here: "Built in 1998 as the new Cleveland Browns Stadium, and renamed FirstEnergy Stadium in January 2013, it is situated on the same ground where tradition-rich Cleveland Municipal Stadium stood for 50 years and where the Browns won eight league championships and 16 men earned enshrinement into the Pro Football Hall of Fame." So it is accurate for WP to say that FirstEnergy Stadium was originally known as Cleveland Browns Stadium, when it opened in 1999. Charlesaaronthompson (talk) 15:40, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: You don't need to prove the former name of the stadium. Believe me when I tell you that everyone here knows that. I don't think Levdr1lp reverted the edit because of a factual error, but more a formatting issue. Do the former names of a given stadium need to be included on the team article, particularly in the infobox? That's what needs to be decided. Really, that is something that would be better discussed at WT:NFL. Template:Infobox NFL team doesn't really give much insight as the instructions for the "stadium_years" parameter only says "A bulleted list of the team's previous and current home fields (current stadium should be bolded)". I posted at the NFL project page to hopefully generate some broader discussion and consensus. --JonRidinger (talk) 16:13, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: JR is correct: I am well aware of the stadium's former name.  I removed it from the infobox to reduce clutter, and I am reverting back to that same version until consensus is reached here or elsewhere.  This article is about the Browns, not the venue they play in, and there is nothing which prevents readers from following the link to the FirstEnergy Stadium article which details a variety of historical facts on the venue, including its former name.  Levdr1lp / talk 17:32, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Those are similar to my thoughts as well, basically that former names are details beyond the WP:SCOPE of this article. While this one doesn't add a significant amount of info, I'm thinking of instances like the Miami Dolphins or Oakland Raiders where their home stadium has had a long succession of names on top of former venues. It doesn't really help the reader understand the topic of the article (which is the team) to know that the stadium has had different names in its history, and live Lev said, if they really want to know more, they can go to the article on the stadium. --JonRidinger (talk) 18:35, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

text: I think we should go with less clutter and just the current name, as is the current way on the article. Infoboxes are not meant to be all-encompassing, and how would this look nice for stadiums with multiple former names, like Oakland Alameda Coliseum? ~ Dissident93 (talk)  05:25, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  FirstEnergy Stadium naming history 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Cleveland Browns. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Cleveland Browns. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added  tag to http://www.myfoxcleveland.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=8155939&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: TheChiefBear (talk) 17:05, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. JTP (talk • contribs) 17:25, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 10 January 2017 

message: Just to clarify Yesterday I had a conversation(by or via  Chat) with a Cleveland Browns guy on the Official Cleveland Browns website.
And I asked him if the Cleveland Browns is a (new) Franchise starting in 1999. And his answered was YES. It is a NEW FRANCHISE.
And of course they keep all the historical data from 1945 to 1995 (Records, Stanings, PlayOffs, etc.etc.)
If you have any doubt regarding this answered  I suggest you to ask( by or via Chat) to one of the guys  of Cleveland Browns.
Have a nice afternoon.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.162.253.171 (talk) 20:46, 26 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: There was a lengthy discussion about this several years ago. See it above at Talk:Cleveland Browns#Article should be split into Cleveland Browns (1946-1995) and Cleveland Browns. Bottom lines: First, a "chat with a Cleveland Browns guy" doesn't constitute a reliable source. Further, the opinion of a Browns media employee is just that: an opinion. Second, the NFL, Baltimore Ravens, Cleveland Browns, and Pro Football Hall of Fame all consider the current Cleveland Browns to be the franchise founded in 1946 while the Baltimore Ravens were established in 1996. This is also covered in Cleveland Browns relocation controversy. As far as records and team histories go, the Ravens start in 1996 and the Browns were officially suspended for three seasons, then "restocked" by way of an expansion draft, and resumed in 1999. Had another team moved to Cleveland before 1999, that team would've inherited the Browns' history as well. Yes, we all know in reality, the Browns moved to Baltimore in 1996, but legally, that's not how the NFL records it with stats. In short, the Browns franchise never moved; the team (players and personnel) moved to Baltimore and Modell was awarded a new franchise and the Browns franchise remained in Cleveland as a trust. In other cases of teams moving, records, colors, etc. all went with the team (i.e. the franchise moved too, like with the Raiders, Rams, Chargers, and even in rebranding cases like the Oilers becoming the Titans). --JonRidinger (talk) 04:26, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleveland Browns 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 15 external links on Cleveland Browns. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This section should be revised to update that both teams have had a 0-16 season. The Lions went winless in 2008 and the Browns later did so in 2017. Many fans from both teams are trying to compare these teams to try to determine who is worse. They are split between the 2017 Browns and the 2008 Lions. Another suggested edit for a new section in the main article would be to mention the 0-16 season and the fan-made parade that followed.
Gboss314159 (talk) 03:21, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggestion for edit to Browns-Lions Rivalry Section, and a new section for 2017 0-16 season. 

message: Hey today Tyler Tettleton was names offensive quality control coach, and I can’t wdit this page. Thanks! JakeTheCake1055 (talk) 02:49, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please edit offensive quality control 

message: Add 2020 as the Browns third winning season (2002, 2007, and 2020) Nascarfan170 (talk) 21:09, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done for now: Although it is certain that the Browns will finish with a winning record at this point, I think it may be better to wait until the regular season is over to add this to the article. I will let another editor review this request to gather their opinion. PlanetJuice (talk • contribs) 21:42, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Melmann 17:20, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 6 December 2020 

message: Add 2020 to the list of winning seasons 2601:1C2:5280:BB40:8C4E:9C68:8A14:31BA (talk) 21:50, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Melmann 17:18, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 6 December 2020 (2) 

message: It appears the 75th anniversary commemorative logo cannot be included in this article, per WP:LOGO#Placement. The infobox it should be included on is the one for the 2021 season, since it is a logo specific to that season. The current wordmark is still the primary wordmark and should remain in the infobox here unless the team announces some kind of change to the overall logo & wordmark branding. The article on Cleveland.com indicates that is not the case.
An example is the National Football League article, which has always kept the current NFL shield in the infobox. The NFL used a commemorative 100th season logo in 2019, and that is featured on the 2019 NFL season article. --JonRidinger (talk) 14:56, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: The 75 logo IS the team's primary logo for 2021, as it is anywhere and everywhere.  Will it be the case for 2022 and beyond, probably not, but for '21, it most certainly is the case, and should be in the infobox (nobody ever said that a logo has to be for ever and ever). Vjmlhds (talk) 14:40, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, see the sources and other examples. It's usage in Browns social media doesn't mean it's the team's primary logo; teams and organizations have commemorative logos all the time and they get heavy usage on their social media outlets. The Browns did it back in 2006 and in 1999; their primary logo (the helmet) didn't change, but they had heavy use of the commemorative logo in media. None of the sources indicate the logo is a replacement of the main logo and all secondary sources like ESPN and Sportslogos.net continue to use the primary helmet logo, including the NFL on their website and at the recent draft. --JonRidinger (talk) 14:55, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Some battles are worth fighting - this ain't one of them. I'm done. Vjmlhds (talk) 18:34, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Commemorative logo 

message: Why are the numbers on the uniforms shown block numbers? In real life they are rounded, and this problem has been here since the browns changed their uniform to that.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by SteelerFan1933 (talk • contribs) 00:56, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uniform Numbers 

message: Who added that part in the article? Cause I don't rememberseeing that before. The King Gemini (talk) 01:40, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adding the line "Named after original coach and co-founder Paul Brown" 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
* 
Participate in the deletion discussion at the . —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:37, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: Just like last year for the center field design and the 75th anniversary logo in 2021, this new logo is not the primary logo. The Browns specifically refer to it as the "dawg logo". It's a secondary logo on par with the Brownie elf logos. There has been no announcement that this is the new primary logo and the infobox space is for the primary logo. The orange helmet is still the primary logo and should be labeled as such in the infobox. --17:09, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Logo part 3 

message: In the history section, change the following sentence:
    The Browns have only posted three winning seasons and two playoff appearances (2002, 2020) since returning to the NFL.
to the following:
    The Browns have only posted four winning seasons and three playoff appearances (2002, 2020, []) since returning to the NFL. Crepuscul1 (talk) 22:05, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Question: Are you asking for a wikilink to the page in the ref tag to be added? Shadow311 (talk) 22:07, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 01:06, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text:  the Cleveland Browns made it to the playoffs this year, and Crepuscul1 wants the data in the history section to reflect that, like it already has in the lead section and infobox. I've also added a citation as a reference. Left guide (talk) 06:57, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 18 January 2024 

message: Team just changed to white face masks permanantly. 2600:8806:910F:B300:6D14:C012:5969:9CC0 (talk) 03:37, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Helmets (current uniform)