Talk:Postalveolar consonant

message: Is Ladefoged our only reference here? The article seems to imply postalveolar laminal and retroflex laminal are the same sound.
Indeed, the relevant Polish and Mandarin fricatives/affricates are decribed using both sound classifications seemingly interchangeably across various wikipedia articles. However, the Polish and Mandarin versions of the sounds do not sound the same. In fact, I would be inclined to clasify Polish as postalveolar laminal and Mandarin as retroflex laminal.
Similarly the Mandarin alveolo-palatal fricatives sound nothing like the Polish ones in any Mandarin I've ever heard spoken and I'd much sooner clasify them as palatals.
It would be really great to get some expert opinion in here, and if necessary, clean some of this up (at the very least disambiguate as much as possible). -- Het 14:05, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it would be nice to get this straightened out. But Mandarin sh is not classically retroflex (that is, there is no curl to the tongue), and Mandarin x is not palatal. kwami (talk) 08:24, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Laminal Fricatives and Alveolo-Palatals 

message: The palato-alveolar affricates are treated incoherently in the first table. There are images, and there are characters illustrating the shape of the phonetic symbols. In the image section, tʃ is shown as juxtaposed  t and ʃ, bu dʒ is shown as a ligature ʤ. In the character section, both are written juxtaposed, i.e. tʃ and dʒ. 
This should be treated in a coherent fashion, either all juxtaposition, or all ligature. In case of juxtaposition, I think we should add a tie bar ͡ to make clear that we are talking about one segment, not two. Jasy jatere (talk) 13:50, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  juxtaposition, ligatures or tie bars for palato-alveolar affricates? 

message: Suppose /s/ is a laminal alveolar. According to Place of articulation, the retracted consonant /s̠/ should be palato-alveolar and thus I reckon this symbol would be equivalent to /ʃ/. However, in this article /s̠/ and /ʃ/ are referred to as two different sounds. Is it a notation issue, or have I done anything wrong? I reckon the only difference between Polish sz and English sh is the tongue shape.--Farru ES (talk) 14:59, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: No, you haven't done anything wrong per se. However, the article has to distinguish laminal flat and laminal domed articulations. Moreover, the unmodified [ʃ] here is used to indicate a domed post-alveolar that may be either apical or laminal. --JorisvS (talk) 16:40, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notation doubts 

message: The table of examples uses the underdot for examples from Ubykh and Toda. This apparently marks apical retroflex consonants. The diacritic isn't listed in the International Phonetic Alphabet article, however; is this deprecated usage from an older form of the IPA, or from another transcriptional system? — Eru·tuon 07:05, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Underdot 

message: This sentence here:
The normal rhotic consonant (r-sound) in American English is a retroflex approximant [ɻ] (the equivalent in British English is an alveolar approximant [ɹ])
appears to contradict the articles for the sounds described - It states that /ɹ/ is used in most AmE dialects, with /ɻ/ used in fewer. I'm asking for clarity on the articles - they appear to contradict each other, so something needs to be changed, I'm just not sure what.
Deuteranopia (talk) 21:22, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rhotic consonants 

message: Can someone add to the article the name of this symbol: ʃ? And maybe the other symbols for postalveolar consonants, too. Thank you! DBlomgren (talk) 03:28, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: The symbol ʃ is called esh. It's capital form resembles Greek Sigma. However, if you're talking about the sound itself, and not its representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA), I'd advise you to look at . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:6c44:237f:accb:44d1:46d3:94b9:5f7f (talk) 22:37, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name of "ʃ"