Talk:Koka and Vikoka

message: According to an english translation of the Kalki Purana, Kali's generals Koka and Vikoka are the twin sons of Bakasura. Now I've found two different Bakasuras in Hindu mythology:
:1) The underling of Kamsa. This one attacked young Krishna in the form of a huge crane Demon. He died at Krishna's hand.
:2) The brother of Kirmira (किर्मीर). This Bakasura (बक) was a Rakshasa who died at the hands of Bhima during the exile of the Pandavas.
The Kalki Purana does not elaborate on which Bakasura this is. I'm writing a small book based on this Purana and I need to know which one this is. Its kind of hard since both lived during the time of Krishna.
The Purana also states "The Twins" were grandsons of Shakuni, the uncle of the Kaurava King Duryodhana. Duryodhana is thought to be an avatar of the Kali (Demon). This could mean that the three are related.  (!Mi luchador nombre es amoladora de la carne y traigo el dolor! 00:43, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nevermind, I just recently found out that they are just similarly named people in the 4,320th century when this prophecy is supposed to happen.(!Mi luchador nombre es amoladora de la carne y traigo el dolor! 19:06, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bakasura 

message: As I posted at Talk:Gog and Magog:
:Looking into it, Przyluski was reviewing Abegg's "Der Messiasglaube in Indien und Iran, auf Grund der Quellen dargestellt," which itself does not appear to mention Gog, Ya'juj or Ma'juj, Ya'jooj or Ma'jooj, or (as the German Wikipedia lists them) Magog, Ya'gug or Ma'gug.  Another review of Abegg's book does not touch on Gog and Magog, either.  As far as can be demonstrated, this idea appears to only be brought forth by Przyluski (who was admittedly a linguist) and Guénon (who was writing from, frankly, a theological perspective instead of a scientific one).
:Przyluski is clear that he believes that Koka and Vikoka are derived (via Arabic literature) from Gog and Magog: "Koka et Vikoka ne sont pas des noms aryens et il est tenant de les rapprocher de Gog et Magog.  Ces deux noms ont pu pénétrer dans l'Inde par l'intermédiaire de la littérature arabe." (page 4).
:Guénon is not explicit in the idea of the Great Wall being Islamic, he regularly alternates between Islam and Hinduism without noting when he has changed lanes.  As such, the current material appears to be interpretation rather than summary.
:I think we should only limit this to:
::Jean Przyluski suggested that the characters Koka and Vikoka were derived from Gog and Magog via Arabic literature.  René Guénon likewise noted that their names were "obviously similar," combining their apocalyptic roles in his book The Reign of Quantity and the Signs of the Times.
:This version contains WP:No original research nor WP:Undue weight.  If further detail about Guénon is truly merited, then non-primary sources would be available.  If there are no sources, zealotry is not a substitute. Ian.thomson (talk) 07:32, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: If Przyluski's suggestion (made in I think 1928?) has not been accepted by modern scholarship it's a less than fringe idea and shouldn't be mentioned.PiCo (talk) 03:48, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rewrite based on the sources