Talk:Kyiv/naming/Archive 2

message: I just wanted to note that, six months on from the debate, the spelling "Kyiv" has gained little if any ground. Kiev has been in the news lately, and I wanted to see how prevalent the new spelling was in the major English-language mass media. Results:
====American newsmedia====
* CNN uses 'Kiev' 
* The New York Times uses 'Kiev' 
* MSNBC uses 'Kiev' 
* The Washington Post uses 'Kiev' 
* Also CBS News, Bloomberg, Reuters all use 'Kiev'
====British newsmedia====
* BBC News uses 'Kiev' 
* The Guardian uses 'Kiev' 
====Other English-language newsmedia====
* The Globe and Mail (Canada) uses 'Kiev' 
* The Times of India uses 'Kiev' 
* International Herald Tribune uses 'Kiev'
* The Australian uses 'Kiev'
Indeed, the use of 'Kyiv' seems limited to CBC News, Radio Free Europe of the Czech Republic, Interfax of Russia, The Kyiv Post, and a handful of other minor players in the English-language newsmedia. CBC News is probably the most significant of the bunch, and the impact of their decision should be monitored. I note, however, that they are inconsistent. Google searches of cbc.ca shows 300 hits for "Kyiv" and 150 hits for "Kiev", giving the new spelling only a 2:1 majority. 
In a search on Google News (which archives only current news stories), a search for "Kiev" revealed 7,350 results , and a search for "Kyiv" revelaed only 683 results, giving a ratio of more than 10 to 1 in favor of 'Kiev'. 
Conclusion: The tide of change in favor of the spelling 'Kyiv' has not budged in English-language newsmedia over the course of 6 months. However, we should continue to monitor the change to see if use of 'Kyiv' by relatively minor players in the market has any impact. The current world standing of Ukraine-related news should have an accelerating effect on any trends that may be afoot. I will revisit these results in a month or two. Nohat 18:11, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Update February 23, 2005: Kiev  still has a more than 10 to 1 lead over Kyiv  at Google News. (4310 to 394 hits). Google web hits have a smaller proportional advantage for "Kiev +Ukraine" vs "Kyiv +Ukraine" at 4.6 to 1 (2880000 to 621000 hits), but still a commanding lead. Nohat 02:48, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

text: March 2005: Kiev is this year's host of the Eurovision Song Contest. Their site,, their liturature, and the official posters for the event use Kiev not Kyiv. Dmn / Դմն 15:17, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)

text: April 2005: With regards to the above comment about Eurovision Song Contest, their site, after consultation with many bodies including the European Broadcasting Union, has been changed to use Kyiv instead of Kiev. I personally support a move to show the article as Kyiv, with Kiev being used as a redirect. jw 00:40, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Surely you don't expect the policy to be changed on the basis of the Eurovision Song Contest's choice of spelling, do you? Nohat 01:48, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course not, no. The point I was trying to get across is that if one of the largest musical events in Europe have changed from Kiev to Kyiv, then it shows that Kyiv is becoming the more widely accepted name. jw 01:46, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: November 2004 Media usage review

message: * The Globe and Mail (Canada) uses 'Kiev' 
* The Times of India uses 'Kiev' 
* International Herald Tribune uses 'Kiev'
* The Australian uses 'Kiev'
Indeed, the use of 'Kyiv' seems limited to CBC News, Radio Free Europe of the Czech Republic, Interfax of Russia, The Kyiv Post, and a handful of other minor players in the English-language newsmedia. CBC News is probably the most significant of the bunch, and the impact of their decision should be monitored. I note, however, that they are inconsistent. Google searches of cbc.ca shows 300 hits for "Kyiv" and 150 hits for "Kiev", giving the new spelling only a 2:1 majority. 
In a search on Google News (which archives only current news stories), a search for "Kiev" revealed 7,350 results , and a search for "Kyiv" revelaed only 683 results, giving a ratio of more than 10 to 1 in favor of 'Kiev'. 
Conclusion: The tide of change in favor of the spelling 'Kyiv' has not budged in English-language newsmedia over the course of 6 months. However, we should continue to monitor the change to see if use of 'Kyiv' by relatively minor players in the market has any impact. The current world standing of Ukraine-related news should have an accelerating effect on any trends that may be afoot. I will revisit these results in a month or two. Nohat 18:11, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Update February 23, 2005: Kiev  still has a more than 10 to 1 lead over Kyiv  at Google News. (4310 to 394 hits). Google web hits have a smaller proportional advantage for "Kiev +Ukraine" vs "Kyiv +Ukraine" at 4.6 to 1 (2880000 to 621000 hits), but still a commanding lead. Nohat 02:48, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

text: March 2005: Kiev is this year's host of the Eurovision Song Contest. Their site,, their liturature, and the official posters for the event use Kiev not Kyiv. Dmn / Դմն 15:17, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)

text: April 2005: With regards to the above comment about Eurovision Song Contest, their site, after consultation with many bodies including the European Broadcasting Union, has been changed to use Kyiv instead of Kiev. I personally support a move to show the article as Kyiv, with Kiev being used as a redirect. jw 00:40, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Surely you don't expect the policy to be changed on the basis of the Eurovision Song Contest's choice of spelling, do you? Nohat 01:48, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course not, no. The point I was trying to get across is that if one of the largest musical events in Europe have changed from Kiev to Kyiv, then it shows that Kyiv is becoming the more widely accepted name. jw 01:46, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Other English-language newsmedia

message: :Witkacy wrote: "The city was part of the Kijów Voivodship, Poland for 200 years, so what is your problem?--Witkacy 18:12, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Having the Polish name for Kiev as the third piece of information in the article is ridiculous. We can include the Polish name in the section that discusses the Polish history of city. The Polish name is only marginally relevant, and having it in the first sentence is totally unnecessary clutter. (This is an agreement with Irpen) Nohat 18:43, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem with German names was completely different - the war started when some users around Chris 73 began to add German names in articles like Lechia Gdansk etc., its like someone would add the Polish name of Kiev to the FC Arsenal Kyiv article... All Polish articles with important cities, which belonged to Germany after the partitions of Poland, have the German in the first line of the article. As i already said Kiev was 200 years the seat of the Voivodship Governor of the Kijów Voivodship and part of Poland. Befor that, the city was part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania which was in personal union with Poland. So why should not the Polish name be mentioned in the first line? Especially in the context that - for an example - Rumia have the German name in the first line, but was a non important village populated by Poles in times when it was part of Germany.--Witkacy 19:17, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

text: Please visit Wikipedia:Naming conventions/Vote on city naming. You may find this of interest. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 10:22, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Kijów in [[Kiev]] article