Talk:Nicola (Okanagan leader)

message: I dislike dates of birth with this format ("1780/1785"). User:Skookum1 has informed me that the source gives. Therefore I don't want to be bold by changing it to "c. 1780" or "c. 1785" since I don't know which is more probable. I'm not familiar with a policy or guideline dealing with this, but if anybody has any ideas (apart from "c. 1782.5" which seems silly), they would be appreciated. If there's a best guess, I think that should be used, perhaps with a "(?)" or "c. ". --Storkk 00:51, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: DOB issue

message: Looks like I'll have to revise the text a bit, and my bad for speculating when I should have avoided same; reason is I came across a passage from the HBC journals by Chief Trader Donald McLean of Fort Kamloops, who in 1823 spent a great deal of energy trying to dissuade the "Thompson's River Indians" from waging war against the "Fraser River Indians" because the latter had killed an important chief of the former "the preceding November", i.e. November 1822 would appear to be the time of Pelka'mulox's death, and the war in 1823.  The challenge by the Lakes Lillooet chief that white men did not exist must mean that particular chief hadn't been around the Fraser when Simon F. came through (the Lakes Lillooet live off-the-river, just west of it).  So this leaves me wondering who it was that the Lillooets/Askettih were prepared for war with when Simon came through....musta been the Chilcotin, or a different war with the Shuswap or Thompson; makes me wonder if I'll get any straight answers on this next time I'm in Lillooet or Merritt.  Anyway, I'll post the quotes from Akrigg which helped establish the dates, which I was wrong/too speculative about before; I hesitate to make the changes as I'd like to see a corroboration that what I'm reading from McLean's letters is what I think it is, so any opinions (after I post the text) welcome.Skookum1 20:50, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: dates of war

message: Quoting its lead paragraph here for reference:
:The name Nicolas (, as in French) was conferred on him by French-Canadians in the employ of the Hudson's Bay and Northwest Companies who worked at a temporary un-named trading post at the head of Okanagan Lake, and its modern pronunciation echoes the accent of the French name.  The Scots and English in the employ of the companies adapted this to Nicholas and Old Nicholas, while First Nations people adapted it to Nkwala'.
That's not quite right, or gives a wrong impression anyway; the modern English pronunciation echoes the French pronunciation, but it is not the same - / 'nikEla /, with the accent on the first syllable and a schwa for the second vowel; I'm not sure what the IPA character for "ih" is, but I doubt it's the pure "ee" of the French-pronunciation IPA/s /ɪ/; closest rhyme I can think of at the moment, for comparison, is "trickle of".  Nk'wala/N'kwala I've seen various spellings of but so far no IPAs.....maybe someone at Talk:Thompson language would know.Skookum1 (talk) 04:24, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed IPA to rhyme with trickle of, and added US dictionary transcription. kwami (talk) 01:11, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Just to note that Nkwala (which has an apostrophe in it somewhere, not sure where exactly) is a "Thopmsonized" form SFAIK, i.e. using the Thompson romanization, and the 'k' in it may not be simply /k/ but may be more like a /q/ or, with that following 'w', /qw/ or /qw/.  Salishan languages tend to have variable applications of the Roman alphabet for their "official orthographies" - Thompson's being very distinct from that used by Lillooet/St'at'imcets.  It may be that Thompson and Okanagan use the same romanization, such that whatever their preferred spelling of Nkwala is matches betweeen those two languages (the Nicola people, as you'll read inthe article, are a joint community of the two...on the other hand the Scw'exmx, who are the local variant of the Nlaka'pamux, may use a different romanization than the Nlaka'pamux in the Fraser Canyon, who do speak a diferrent dialect, or so I'm given to understand.....I think the BCGNIS for Nicola Country/Nicola River has the "proper" nativized adaptation, I'll be back with it; but it shouldn't be assumed that it's the same as it might be in Michif; Salishan languages are full of complex gutturals and this may be one of those (in fact, it likely is).Skookum1 (talk) 01:28, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Both those BCGNIS refs have this line: The Indians pronounced the nickname N'kuala or Nkwala, and those spellings made their way into the records, eventually simplified to Nicola.  and that's not necessarily how it's "official" in Thompson; I'll look on their government/culture pages to see what they might have it written as....Skookum1 (talk) 01:37, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

text: Also btw, the local "white" pronunciation of Nicola has a bit of a distinction between the two otherwise-schwas/neutrals; the first has more of an 'ooh', like in "book", the latter has a bit of an "a" flavour to it; this maybe is only something I picked up, or developed along the way, partly from being influenced by the local dialect in the Lillooet area where I'm from; it may be different again in the Merritt area.  Next time I have a microphone handy I'll record a few examples of it and see what you think; it may only be an "apparent" difference because of rhythm.....Skookum1 (talk) 01:31, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: And, as a side note in general, please use caution in applying  the American o-diphthong /oʊ/ to instances of "long o" in Canada; our usages can be quite a short, often not diphthongized; the American long-o is very "drawl-ish" to our ears.Skookum1 (talk) 01:37, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: "" is used for Canadian, English, Australian, and Kiwi long o, as well as Usonian. If you want to be more precise, it's best to use phonetic notation. kwami (talk) 20:08, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name section

message: Substituted at 01:08, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: I've seen many sources say that he passed around in 1858-58. Generally I think this article, for how lengthy it is, requires a lot of sourcing. Remikipedia (talk) 06:43, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Date of Death and General Sourcing