Talk:Solid Snake/Archive 1

message: Could we please not use the guns of the patriots image before we even know if the game is good. I mean to me its better to go with the classic mgs image anyway, but seriosuly.
xthemaninwhitex@aol.com
foxhoundgrunt620
It has nothing to do with whether the game is "good". The reason that the GOTP image is in place is because we want to use the newest image available. That goes for all the other characters like Meryl and Ocelot, too. Village Baka 21:09, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Default pic

message: Snake's name is Justin Halley in the 3rd party novels back in the early 90's.
I can provide scans of the one of the books if you want.
jarana@gmail.comNOSPAM
is my email if you wanted to contact me.
That name is non-canon though isn't it? (The Bread 08:01, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Snake's name from the NES era 

message: Should Snakes picture be changed to te older Guns of the Patriots version? as it appears to be the trend to use the most recent image of the character (The Bread 08:01, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Snake's image 

message: I just wanted to mention that this article doesn't sufficiently talk about Snake's smoking habits.  I think its worth mentioning because one wouldn't know he was a smoker at all unless they read closely.  And still they wouldn't know his prominince for being a smoker.  I don't think I'm up to writing about, so I think its up for grabs.
You know, that "Nah, just found a light." line makes me think that this could be another joke on Kojima's part. That is, while in all the games you have cigarettes or cigars, it is never shown in the player's inventory some means of lighting them (save the end of Metal Gear 2, but the cigarettes are gone at that point anyway). I once brought up this point in a feature on Metal Gear 2 I wrote for ClassicGaming.Com back when MGS2 came out, and I'm willing to bet that I'm not the only one who's ever publicly asked this. And so, Kojima finally answers the question. --Paul Soth 07:41, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Snake's Smoking Habits 

message: I have changed the part that states that Solid Snake recieved "recessive genes" to "inferior genes" (And Liquid's to "superior" rather than dominant). 
My reasoning is as follows:
Liquid tells us that Solid Snake recieved the dominant genes, while he himself recieved the "flawed recessive genes".  Then, in the Epilogue, Ocelot reveals Liquid was wrong to believe himself flawed, calling Solid Snake the "inferior".  It is a bit of a leap from there to assume that this means that Snake recieved the *recessive* genes - particularly since he demonstrates the greatest resemblance in character to Big Boss (who would obviously express his dominant genes whenever they turned up in pairs of Dominant/Dominant, or Dominant/Recessive).
What is indesputable is that Liquid was genetically superior - but whether a gene is dominant or recessive has no bearing on how desirable it is.  
It is far more likely that the scientists (having NOT identified the solider genes in 1972 - this development came after Big Boss's death and further examination of his remains) simply assumed that since he was the "Legendary Solider", Big Boss' dominant genes would be those most suitable for creating the perfect solider.
They then created Solid with the *intention* of making him the superior and Liquid with the intention of his being the "spare". Undoubtedly there would be paperwork and files on this that Liquid would be able to discover in his adulthood - which would also lead him to the conclusion that the recessive genes that he recieved were "flawed". What he would not learn was that in truth, Big Boss' recessive genes were even more potent than his dominant genes - so on a genetic level, Liquid was in fact potentially greater than even Big Boss.
On a more superficial/silly level - it would give us a cool reason for Liquid to have natural blonde hair, since the "blonde hair colour gene" is recessive. Having said that, Snake's hair seemed to be naturally blonde in MGS - but this was changed in TTS. Tsch. Retconning. 
If you don't agree, that's fine - "superior"/"inferior" is unbias and covers both possible interpretations that one is able to take from the game- but clearly labelling Solid Snake as the inheritor of the recessive genes does not. - Ulicus (I really should get around to registering)
:First of all, changing "recessive" to "inferior" and "dominant" to "superior" just negates the whole intent of the genetic story in Metal Gear Solid.
:The point of the story is that "We are not ruled by our genetic fate" as Dr. Naomi Campbell states.  That even though Liquid truly received Big Boss' "dominant" soldier genes ultimately he couldn't either defeat Solid Snake or the FOXDIE virus.  And under the same context, Solid Snake who received the "recessive" genes proves time and time again that genetic fate has nothing to do with the choices you can make as a person.  Naomi even mentions this in game citing that Solid's genes make him predisposed towards violence, which he disproves when he goes out of his way to save Meryl during the Psycho Mantis fight.
:Next, Solid Snake's hair has long been brown.  Even early cover art will tell you that and thinking that he looked to have more blonde hair in MGS seems to be your opinion.  I felt pretty sure it was obvious his hair was brown even on the PSX version of the game, and see no evidence of retconning.  Now, brown hair is known to be a "dominant" genetic trait.  Where Liquid's hair is blonde which is known to be a genetic "recessive" trait.  Albeit there are other factors that can contribute to a loss of color in the head (stress, excessive exposure to sunlight, et. al.)
:Third, the difference in the genetic base of the characters due to the hair color, may be entirely limited to the specific genes linked to soldiers.  A gene related to hair color probably wouldn't be considered as important as a gene linked to physical endurance in a soldier.  The Les Enfantes genetic manipulation may have been focused more strongly on "soldier" genes as opposed to all genes.
:Fourth, as far as "superior/inferior" being unbiased, that is your bias.  The game itself uses the terms "recessive" and "dominant".  Therefore those should be the terms used in the description on this page.  In genetic research, "recessive" genes are not always considered to be inferior genes or traits.  When you state "inferior" you are implying that Solid Snake is comprised of poor genetic material when it is stated time and time again that he was crafted from the greatest soldier that ever lived (according to game canon.)
:The game's theme (MGS) is that of breaking genetic fate.  And genes are classified as "dominant" and "recessive".  To say that Solid Snake is the obvious "superior" however would be correct, as he has proven multiple times, often being the last man standing in a battle to the death.  His genetic material, which gives him his strength (arguably) is therefore "recessive" not inferior.  I am reverting your changes.  TotalTommyTerror 18:54, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  The blond hair was retconned - in the briefing during Twin Snakes, SS clearly has brown hair. There is also an argument that Snake's hair *was* brown in that tape, but since it was all in one colour, and there was a bright light being shone from above, the hair appeared blond just because of the reflected light. Though, since I've heard Snake was originally going to be blond for MGS2, I think it's more likely that they just decided "Oh well, lets forget the blond Solid Snake ever happened", and went back to the brown hair of MG and MG2.
Okay, to Village Baka, just out of curiosity, where do you get Snake having the dominant genes yet recessive on a genetic level? By the statements in Metal Gear Solid naked (pg 56) - Hideo Kojima implies that neither is superior in a traditional sense, as the technology to modify a gene's phenotype didn't exist circa 1972. Which would mean to imply at least that Ocelots statement is also oblivious of this effect, and the "inferior one" -is- the recessive one, Solid Snake. Since neither could otherwise be classified as "superior" or "inferior". Given The Patriots modus operandi of information manipulation, for Liquid to be decieved into believing he's the "recessive" son would well fit in the context of the story as well. Lilinka 06:19, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dominant/Recessive 

message: Shouldn't generic be genetic?
I know that generic can have a biological term too, however it also has other meanings and could be confusing. Also I've never known anyone to use the term 'generic engineering'.
Regarding my fixing the "spelling correction" by User:66.190.245.23: The character in the "Escape from" movies is named Snake Plissken.  Snake uses the alias "Pliskin".  They are not spelled the same.
--138.238.96.32 23:36, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)
replies: text:  I was being condescending. (Character A says: "You're this!") + (Character B expresses surprise: "How did you know?") = (Character B is "This"). Remember that. (195.92.168.176 18:21, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Generic? 

message: I think the Decoy Octopus image has no value in this article. 
It seems very unrelated.
Whoever said that's Decoy Octopus is in error. Decoy Octopus has no ears. That looks very much like Snake in civilian clothing. I motion to label it as such. Steven Hildreth, Jr. 19:15, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  images 

message: Isn't there a correlation between Snake's real name, David, and that of the person who gives Snake his voice in the Metal Gear Solid series of games, David Hayter?
Grumpy Troll 28 June 2005 21:06 (UTC)
: Probibly not as Hideo would be writing his scripts long before voice actors where found. It's more likely a refrence to 2001: A Space Odyssey since Snake is called David and Otacon is called Hal. I believe that this was hinted at in 'Twin Snakes' for the Gamecube.
: I could be wrong however and any links to an interview would be cool. --Zikar 29 June 2005 00:11 (UTC)
::No, it has nothing to do with Hayter. It's a reference to 2001: A Space Odyssey and Policenauts (which are mentioned in the article). Like you said, the scripts were written long before the voice actors were hired. Snake's name is David in the Japanese version of Metal Gear Solid too.  Hayter's also commented on it being a coincidence, I think. --DoubleCross July 3, 2005 21:45 (UTC)
When I first heard Snake's real name was David, I immediately assumed it was a "David vs. Goliath" reference.  After all, he ends up taking on a metal giant that dwarfs him, in each and every game.  Think it's mere coincidence?  Theredcomet2000 05:13, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Snake's real name 

message: There is no info on Metal Gear Ac!d in the article, maybe someone could add something in?
:The thing is that the AC!D series is set in a separate universe from the main Metal Gear Saga, like Ghost Babel and Snake's Revenge before it. It won't exactly fit well with the info from main series. We could have a sub-section for side games though. Jonny2x4 22:35, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ac!d 

message: This article needs some fixing. Solid Snakes military career outside of Foxhound is very vague. Although he has both worked alongside and taken orders from U.S Army personnel it has never been confirmed nor denied whether he is himself Army personnel,much less a Green Beret. It is however hinted that Snake has links to The British Special Air Service and the United States Marine Corps. There may have been some confusion between Solid Snake and Big Boss in this article.
:I'm tempted to remove all the whole "Military Career Debate" nonsense since it's completely subjective and not much of an issue in my opinion. BTW, FOXHOUND is spelled in all-caps. Jonny2x4 03:07, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi! Might want to take some time to read Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines before you get banned outright. --Paul Soth 08:07, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

text: Wow! So much hissy for a trivial video game-based article. It's people like you and that Cloudsong kid that gives Jack Thompson fuel for his argument.BTW Wikipedia:WikiProject_Computer_and_video_games states that "Theories or speculation (are unsuitable content). You may think that the Chozo were actually cannibalistic, perhaps based on a sentence referencing their mysterious eating habits in an instruction booklet, but unless this has been stated explicitly in official literature, it does not belong in the article. This applies to theories that aren't your own, as well." Jonny2x4 20:02, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

text: I was initially against the inclusion of the "Name Debate" section in the Big Boss article, but popular vote won out. Apparently enough people that is significant enough to be kept. The actual game doesn't provide evidence favoring Jack over John (and vice versa) and anything about Naked Snake's smirk and the use of John Doe is strictly suggestive. If it was up to me, I would have simply have it at "Big Boss' real name is unknown" and that "he uses both: Jack and John to introduce himself", since I prefer to keep fictional articles as immersive as possible to the reader (a personal preference of mine).On the other hand, the whole thing about Snake's pre-FOXHOUND career seems more like fancruft, since it's never brought up in the series outside of that one line by Campbell and no one else debated about its removal.  Jonny2x4 07:01, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Green Berets? 

message: I want to justify the removal of Snake's Date Of Birth of 1972.  1972 is stated in MGS3 as the beginning of the Les'Enfantes project but that doesn't make it Snake's birthdate.
First of all, the idea that within one year of starting genetic research that the same lab could produce offspring is a bit ridiculous (regardless of giant walking robots being a bit farfetched as well).  
Secondly, all offspring of the project were referred to as the "Sons of Big Boss" which Liquid even states (I want to talk about what he says in a bit.)  The likelihood that other "copies" were made before Liquid, Solid, and Solidus seems reasonable.  Genetic manipulation would've been way in its infantcy at this point.
Third, the game only states that the "Sons of Big Boss" were born, not that Liquid or Solid were born at this time.  The birth (as vague as Kojima is known to be about such things) may be a reference to the project beginning.
Now, about what Liquid says:  He mentions that he and Solid are twins, but twins from a batch of 12, where the others were killed in vitro.  Liquid didn't know about the existence of Solidus either.  Meaning that what Liquid knows should be considered skeptical.  Ocelot even confirms this post credits in MGS where he says "No one knows you were the third one "Solidus".  On top of the fact that he believed that he was the genetic inferior.  Another fact Ocelot corrected.
Also under criticism is Liquid's insistence in MGS2 (via Ocelot as a medium) that Big Boss was in his 50's when he was cloned.  If Big Boss was 50 in 1972, that would've made him at least 42 years old during the Snake Eater mission.  And it seems incredibly odd that a 42 year old soldier is constantly referred to as "Boy" by the Cobra unit and Volgin.  Liquid's knowledge should be dismissed.
No solid DOB is given for Snake, just a date for the beginning of the project.  TotalTommyTerror 18:54, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  DOB Removal 

message: I have noticed user  engaging in the most inane acts of vandalism here.  Injecting his own little opinions onto the site.  I'd like to thank User:Peruvianllama for keeping an eye on the page.  TotalTommyTerror 07:11, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism 

message: I changed the text about the "Iroquois" name Snake uses in MGS2.  The information should now match what he actually tells Raiden is the reasoning behind his moniker.
Also, I removed the following paragraph
According to the personal information supplied in Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake, he is 178 cm tall and weighed 75 kg and has an IQ of "over 160". In the updated stats featured in Metal Gear Solid, he is 182 cm tall and has an IQ of 180.
This sounds weird to me.  I'm not debunking it, but I'm going to look into it.  It felt disjaunted in its place in the article though.  I'm just having a hard time finding "stats" in game.
TotalTommyTerror 11:34, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The MG2 stats are found in that game's manual, though they say Snake's I.Q. is 160, not over 160. As for MGS, it wouldn't suprise me if someone used the stats listed for Liquid in the game's briefing mode. He's stated to have a height of 183 cm and an I.Q. of 180. Solid Snake doesn't appear to have his stats listed in briefing mode (unless they're in a hidden scene that I missed). I'd say run with the MG2 data unless something more recent comes to light.
I realize the Acid series is non-canonical, but the MGS1 Solid Snake card lists his I.Q. as 180. While the Acid series itself doesn't enter into the equation, the statistics on the card are most likely accurate. 71.197.144.129 05:29, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  More than minor edits 

message: I notice the first paragraph there claims snake to be: "the man who makes the impossible possible."
Is this mentioned somewhere in the game series itself? Perhaps it's just me, but I somehow that phrase reminds me of the Gundam Seed character, Mwu La Flaga. Could someone confirm the title in its relation to Snake? I just have this incling that some random internet person dropped the line in because he thought it was cool. Of course, if that's not the case, we can confirm where the line comes from and never mention it again.
Nastasha refers to that in 'In The Darkness of Shadow Moses' and I'm sure it's mentioned in several other locations throughout the series.
--24.76.109.236 00:44, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confusion with another character? 

message: It should be noted that this incarnation of Snake is mentioned only by name (actually, not even by name, just alluded to by familiarity with Roy Campbell and the fact that he mentions having fought Metal Gears before) and is not the character model used to play the Snake vs. Monkey game. If you look closely, you can note that he wears an eyepatch over his right eye, so whether it was unintentional or not, the character model is that of Big Boss/Naked Snake, keeping in line with the mention of the name "Snake" in the mini-game's title, since it is ambiguous as to which "snake" it could be.
The character in the "Snake vs. Monkey" Mini-game is, in fact, Solid Snake; they just didn't bother to change the character model. Village Baka 22:46, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  MGS3 Appearance - Confusion 

message: I know nothing about these games, but I reverted this edit today that claimed that one of the article's images is mislabeled. FYI. ×Meegs 14:05, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mislabeled image? 

message: This article is currently a testbed for a unified computer/video game character infobox, . It uses a series-specific subbox,  (which is distinct from , the old infobox).
Input on this infobox would be appreciated; note that the addition of things that would be obvious to reads unfamiliar with Metal Gear (such as what series is involved and the series' creator) is intentional. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 18:48, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  {{tl|General CVG character}} 

message: I added a section for that,  I hope no one minds.  This is my first Real addition, so if I have anything wrong, can you guys fix it? Robert the Small 01:42, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mesal gear solid 

message: I changed the Ape Escape 3 part slightly so people could see the name. Just thought people might want to know hat the mini-games called so they don't have to read a bunch of stuff about Ape Escape 3. Robocoppitiesthefool 15:25, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mesal Gear Solid 

message: Concerning Snake from Super Smash Bros. Brawl, this article stated that it may still be possible for him to use real-world weapons. Sakurai (director of SSBB) states on the official website that he will not be using real-world weapons and only explosives. I just don't want anyone going in and changing this back. I'd like to add a footer for this, but I'm not sure how. If somebody could and a footer that referances this link (http://www.smashbros.com/en/characters/chara5/index.html), then that would be appreciated.
Tbkgm79 22:53, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Smash Bros. Brawl: No Real-World Weapons 

message: I took out the part about Snake being in the Yugioh TCG. If you Google Image 'Tactical Espionage Expert' you can see Snake looks nothing like the Yugioh Card.
:It's not hime, but it's definately an allusion to/parody of him. Aside from the rubber neck and a slight blue tinge, that's Solid Snake's MGS2 Sneaking Suit and the Tactical Espionage bit confirms the connection. I'd be tempted to put it in the Yugioh trivia. 151.151.73.171 20:20, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Took Out Yugioh TCG Part 

message: I just noticed that the "Metal Gear" template is missing from this article. I think I can safely speak for eveyone in stating that this is a rather important part of the Metal Gear universe, hmm? I really don't know how to mess with templates and such, so if someone else could correct this, that would be great. Village Baka 21:38, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You mean this? You have the option to show or hide it. It is in the article, so you've probably got it set on hide. -- Steel 21:56, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  HUGE problem!