Talk:Juan Pablo Duarte

message: This article contains claims that are not backed by any source (mostly because they are not true). For the moment, as I don't have more time, I will post an "original research" or "unverified claims" to the article if no one provides for a correction in a reasonable amount of time. Dominican 23:11, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Original research 

message: I removed the vandalism added. Dominican 23:17, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of vandalism 

message: this page need major work, i put back to a state that seem more accurate...but this article need more work on it.  Avfnx 23:45, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  This page got lot miss information 

message: There apparently seems to be an attempt to censor this article on a regular basis by a few editors. The facts are that there is some controversy surrounding Juan Pablo Duarte's legacy and we have an obligation to at least include this information especially if there are numerous articles from reputible news organizations that have reported on Taina Mirabal's film "Padres de Racismo" about Juan Pablo Duarte.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.95.167.31 (talk) 19:41, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Attempt to censor  

message: An unregistered user has been reediting the article to denounce a supposedly unknown aspect of Duarte's life. These claims have been stated even on other articles, like the one for the Dominican Republic and even on xenophobia.
This information has consistently been removed because it is not backed by reliable sources. I will flesh out the sources given for that edit:
1. Padre De Racismo: This is a newspaper article about the controversy raised because flyers with Duarte's portrait and a message that said "Padre del Racismo" were distributed in New York City; as well as some statements made by the producers of the film.
Nowhere in the article there is something that backs the racists claims. This looks like someone is trying to promote this specific news.
2. Taína Mirabal: Again, another newspaper article that does not support the point of view given. They are just reproducing Mirabal's interview. This is one person's opinion. I mean, she has the right to say whatever she wants about whoever she wants, but just because it appears in a minor online periodical publication, that doesn't make it a reliable source.
3. Los dominicanos han sido engañados: For the third time, this source is pretty much the same article, but written by a different reporter. The situation is the same, they are just repeating Mirabal's interview.
Finally, I would like to add that this information should not be included in the main article because it is only the opinion of Taína Mirabal (and maybe two wikipedia editors). Mirabal in itself is not a reputable historian. Her only work seems to be this documentary. She hasn't, so far and to the best of my knowledge, written any books, journal papers or taught history in school at any level. She doesn't even have a blog! Writing an article based on a film is like trying to re-write the history of the United States after seeing The Birth of a Nation.
Her work also seems to be stagnant. These articles first appeared on August 2007. After that, neither Mirabal or her film have gotten any reviews. Actually, if you google "Taina Mirabal", "Padre de Racismo" or "Fathers of Racism", it only links to the above mentioned articles and to wikipedia!
I understand that there might be people who don't agree with the way the history about Duarte is written, but if you want it to be on a wikipedia article, then create one that is called Controversy about Juan Pablo Duarte, or something like that.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dominican (talk • contribs) 17:50, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, I forgot to sign. Dominican (talk) 17:57, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Claims for Juan Pablo Duarte's racism 

message: The fact is that this controversy is taking place and there has been press on it, we have an obligaton to include it.  To supress this information is censorship. Taina Mirabal has gotten press and the movie has been reported on, that is a fact. She has made assertions about Duartes life and is releasing a movie about him. we have to include that in this article because it is going on.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.95.167.45 (talk) 22:54, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: we have a obligation to report

message: Reveling the true nature of Juan Pablo Duarte's motivations for a separte territory, does not equal hatred toward any group of people. Duarte was an individual who should be held responsible for what he has done. This is in no way defamation or slander nor lies; these are true facts. They may not push a nationalist agenda, but it still does not make them false at all.  This is definatly not a personal thing. We have the responsiblity to tell the truth, even if we were born in the country. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.44.112.232 (talk) 01:23, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not Hatred, Just facts 

message: Hey I'm Dominican and I agree with Taina Mirabal, so it's not just one person who is making edits here.
Also you shouldn't threaten people with violence over the internet, you can and will be put in prison. There is now a record of it and I have reported it to the authorities.
If you disagree fine, then we can create a dialoge and see how to include both sides of the story, but lets not start threatening people with violence or by hacking into their computers; that is against the law.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by La romana 31 (talk • contribs) 21:53, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  you shouldn't blame puerto ricans 

message: Oye mi gente,
Taina Mirabal speak the truth. Duarte fue una persona racista y los Trinitarios tambien. El es El Padre de Racismo, y yo soy Dominicano puro.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Anthony santos (talk • contribs) 22:20, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Duarte fue racista. 

message: I don't know know where you get the idea that I'm Puerto Rican, because I'm not. I think maybe some Dominicans find it hard to believe that they are some of us Dominicans that hate Juan Pablo Duarte, even if we were born there. Some of us Dominicans do have our own minds you know? Were not going to be brainwashed by schoolteachers, politicans and leaders who have been lying and stealing from us for 263 years. Wake up and open your eyes!!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.44.112.232 (talk) 22:41, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Puerto Rican? 

message: Primo! Calmate! Its not like Juan Pablo Duarte is your father or something. You shouldn't take it so personal. he was a racist, so what! That isn't going to make the palm trees or the beautiful beaches go away. Racism is a problem in our country and we have to be grown up enough to admit it. I know it first hand, I lived in DR for many years and still when I go back I see it loud and clear. 
I'm not embarrased to speak the truth. Are you?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by La romana 31 (talk • contribs) 01:47, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  calm down primo 

message: Just as a reminder to all of you bloody ignorants. Today is the celebration of our independence from Haiti, which I can only thank to the people who gave their lives 164 years ago and to those, including Juan Pablo Duarte, who thought that we could be a free nation and did something about it. And you can thank him also, because you are able to defame his name and his, our, interracial country.
Padre de la Patria y liberador de mi pueblo de la tiranía Haitiana. Fundador de mi tierra y motivo por el cual hoy yo tengo una nacionalidad la cual me identifica. DIOS PATRIA Y LIBERTAD // REPÚBLICA DOMINICANA
Yo tengo un Dios al que amo, una Patria a la que adoro y una Libertad que disfruto. Yo soy de República Dominicana, yo soy dominicano ¿Y tú?¿Qué tienes?
(talk) 05:30, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  27 de Febrero 

message: Let translate the Spanish version of Duarte in to english. AvFnx (talk) 15:47, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  I Propose.... 

message: It seems to me that there is a whole lot of nationalist bias and protectionism fueling an organizaed movement to hide anything negative about Juan Pablo Duarte or the Dominican Republic. Even in articles dealing with racism or fear of foriegners, anything having to do with listing the Dominican Republic is erased.
It funny how the Confederate States of America are looked at as racist for wanting to separate from the USA but the Dominican Republic is not when it did the same thing. If separation due to religion, language or culture is looked at as racism and bias in any other part of the world then we should use the same measuring stick in judging the Dominican Republic. Facts are facts, the United Nations, Amnesty International and the U.S. State Department are not all wrong about Dominican Racism. The fact is that it is a problem and the problem started with Duarte no matter how much spin the government has put on the story over then last 100 plus years. Its not the end of the world. To cover it up just makes it worse.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by La romana 31 (talk • contribs) 23:03, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Your comments have nothing to do with why your changes are being reverted.  You repeatedly insist on posting your fringe theories as if they were facts (and there's no indication they're even notable fringe theories).  Information on current racial problems in the Dominican Republic is cited.  Your contentions about the founders of the country, La Trinitaria, and their supposed inspiration for the KKK is the theory of one non-notable individual, Taina Mirabal.  Edward321 (talk) 02:48, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Did you know DR was a free country before been invaded by Haiti...so it now the same as the south breaking from the north. We had freedom and wanted it back. By your theory any country that get invaded and conquer doesn't have the right to free it self once again. That shows you limit, you not educated, you only have no life and this how you kill time. AvFnx (talk) 15:49, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

text:  Even if your staments are all true, that still doesn't give a reason for your repeated pushing of a non-notable fringe theory.  And they aren't all true, I for one am not from the Dominican Republic. Edward321 (talk) 04:14, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nationalist Bias and Protectionism

message: Friends, I am in the process of reworking this article and I would appreciate your help. My goal is to make this article one of the top quality ones, and thus, I would need your help in making it readable, polishing its language, verifying claims with sources, and adding sections and information that are relevant and can be documented. I really hope we could move beyond the unnecessary discussions and zero-in on what would make Duarte's legacy and contributions public to the world. Please, do not hesitate to leave me messages or continue with the project of making a better article.  
Historian (talk) 17:47, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rewriting and Enhancing 

message: As we try hard to rework this article, I hope that an increasing number of well-meaning participants join our efforts. Furthermore, I will like to plead with the contributors to keep their contribution within the limits of scholarship. There is a large number (and increasing) of books and articles recently written, in addition to lots of available primary sources on Dominican History, which should be our basis for input into the article. In other words, nothing, and I mean, Nothing, that is not substantiated from primary sources should be place in this article. Information deriving from secondary sources (books written by historians) should be (if at all) only mentioned as such—as opinions. Discredited authors or amateur historians should not feature here prominently—if at all. 
Evidence is required for every single historical assertion about Duarte, particularly in relation to incendiary or controversial claims. Ahistorical (non-historical) contentions, as Duarte founding the KKK—which US confederate soldiers founded in 1866—should not be even considered for this article. I will consistently undo every contribution which violate these principles of historical interpretation, and which ignores the collective attempt of the online community. 
Historian (talk) 20:19, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Plea for Historical Accuracy 

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thread_title: File:Duartepico.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: The tone of the article is not one that fits an encyclopedia. 
Phrases like: 
* "Duarte never giving up on the principles of democracy and fairness by which he lived, would only accept if voted in by a majority of the Dominican people"
It is not the place for an encyclopedic article to be so involved. If he said that or someone else did, then only the quotation of this statement should appear. 
* "Independence could not be denied and after many struggles, the Dominican Republic was born."
A neutral article would have said: After many struggles, independence was achieved and the Dominican Republic was founded.
The tone is saturated with romanticism.
* "Juan Pablo Duarte was to look back at this affair with nostalgia, wishing that it had lasted."
This assumes knowledge about how he felt. It should have been either a quotation or not be included at all.
* His remains were transferred to Dominican soil in 1884—ironically, by president and dictator Ulises Heureaux, a man of Haitian descent—
It is not the place for an encyclopedic article to point out irony.
* alongside Sanchez and Mella, who at that spot fired the rifle shot that propelled them into legend.
Too much romanticism.
If in 10 days I don't get a responce, I will rework the entire article.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jlagrange (talk • contribs) 05:23, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality dispute 

message: Substituted at 20:39, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

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thread_title:  External links modified