Talk:Matzah

message: Considering that "The international community considers Israeli settlements in the West Bank illegal under international law. According to human rights organization B'Tselem, the state of Israel itself acknowledges that much of the Ofra civilian settlement is built on privately owned Palestinian land, which is unlawful according to Israeli law." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ofra)
I see it as an unnessecary political statement to subtitle the Photo with children in Ofra baking Matzo. How about just removing the "in Ofra" or chosing a different photo from an undisputed location, if the location is important to anyone?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.64.144.77 (talk) 20:56, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Photo from Ofra

message: I'm interested in the ingredients and preperation of Matzo, not in zionism.  Zionistic phrases contained in the article: "...millennia of of exile...", "However as the people of Israel return to their ancient homeland...".  These have no place in the article, and are clearly an attempt push an agenda that has nothing to do with Matzo whatsoever.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.110.246.219 (talk) 06:57, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Ingredients, Five Species of Chametz and Preparation.. ''and Zionism''

message: So I go and buy a packet of matzos at the supermarket because dad likes them. Personally i think they are the most bland thing you can eat next to cardboard (at least put some salt in them FFS!). I look it up on wikipedia to see why on earth anyone would want to make these things and, importantly, what these things are as a food. THESE ARE FOOD. Yes there's a whole Jewish/Christian thing behind them, but shouldn't most of that stuff go in religious topics, not cuisine? All i need to know is the very basics of where they come from, varieties, how they are made, nutrition info and uses in cuisine. Again, this is an article about FOOD not religion! Please keep all your religious stuff (NOTE: religion is differnet to national culture!) in another article. Thankyou.
**
Try this: I added yeast to my nana's matzo recipe.  Delish!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.115.159.54 (talk) 17:44, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Religious stuff

message: I thought somebody here might know: An article on quartanzans was just created. Apparently, it's a cracker-like bread similar to matza, which is also eaten on Jewish holidays. But the term gets 0 Google hits, so I'm wondering if it's real, or a joke? Thanks. 68.81.231.127 10:35, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Speedy deleted as blatant nonsense. Amongst many things, Yom Kippur is a fast day, so there really can't be a special cracker eaten on that day. Jayjg (talk) 15:39, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the double check. I sometimes wonder how much stealth vandalism we miss. 68.81.231.127 22:55, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quartanzans? 

message: Excuse me? Blood of a Christian child? I thought that myth was over with since the beginning of the 20th century! It should be removed! (unsigned)
No Myth F-tard!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/02/08/wjews08.xml (unsigned)
There are processes in Wikipedia to deal with repeated vandalism. I strongly suggest you work this out in therapy, rather than making a fool of yourself in public. FiveRings 15:38, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There's no reason to mention it in the article, since it is nothing but nonsense. All of the so-called "evidence" is based on confessions under the most extreme forms of torture. They would have confessed to being a baked potato had the inquisitors wanted them to. And considering that consuming any blood, let alone consuming human blood, is against Jewish dietary laws, there is just no reason to even give this the slightest credibility. You can't prove that I didn't go to Mars, are you going to give that serious credibility. It's amazing to think that people are so ignorant and/or vile to keep trying to push this garbage.--RLent (talk) 19:16, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

text: And this brings up an interesting point - the users of Wikipedia have changed, as the users of the Internet have changed. While documenting this as nonsense would have been a waste of time five years ago, now it may actually have value. (ensuing flame war notwithstanding). FiveRings (talk) 18:07, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Christian Child

message: :The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 
Matzo → Matzah — Move per WP:COMMONNAME. It was controversial a few years ago to make this move, but the near-ubiquity of the spelling "Matzah" among both Jews and non-Jews preempts the traditional Ashkenazi pronunciation. Kari Hazzard (T | C) 21:27, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Add  # Support  or  # Oppose  on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~.  Please remember that this is not a vote; comments must include reasons to carry weight.
====Support 2007====
#Support - thanks for putting this up for discussion and formalization. I agree matzah is the more neutral spelling/prounciation and should be the one used.  It is both common pronunciation, by both Jews and non-Jews. It makes up the standard Israeli and Sephardi pronunciation, some Ashkenazi pronunciation, and the pronunciation (in my experience) used by most Ashkenazim in the USA, regardless how it is spelled by some Matzah makers (and at the store a few weeks ago I saw at least 5 different spellings of it).  The spelling Matzah (with or without the h) is certainly just as common and again, neutral, I don't see why to keep the spelling this with exlusively Ashkenazi (by some dilects) spelling. Epson291 21:44, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

text: The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal.  Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it be moved. --Stemonitis 06:39, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 2007

message: :Add  # Support  or  # Oppose  on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~.  Please remember that this is not a vote; comments must include reasons to carry weight.
====Support 2007====
#Support - thanks for putting this up for discussion and formalization. I agree matzah is the more neutral spelling/prounciation and should be the one used.  It is both common pronunciation, by both Jews and non-Jews. It makes up the standard Israeli and Sephardi pronunciation, some Ashkenazi pronunciation, and the pronunciation (in my experience) used by most Ashkenazim in the USA, regardless how it is spelled by some Matzah makers (and at the store a few weeks ago I saw at least 5 different spellings of it).  The spelling Matzah (with or without the h) is certainly just as common and again, neutral, I don't see why to keep the spelling this with exlusively Ashkenazi (by some dilects) spelling. Epson291 21:44, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal.  Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.</div>
It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it be moved. --Stemonitis 06:39, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey 2007

message: #Support - thanks for putting this up for discussion and formalization. I agree matzah is the more neutral spelling/prounciation and should be the one used.  It is both common pronunciation, by both Jews and non-Jews. It makes up the standard Israeli and Sephardi pronunciation, some Ashkenazi pronunciation, and the pronunciation (in my experience) used by most Ashkenazim in the USA, regardless how it is spelled by some Matzah makers (and at the store a few weeks ago I saw at least 5 different spellings of it).  The spelling Matzah (with or without the h) is certainly just as common and again, neutral, I don't see why to keep the spelling this with exlusively Ashkenazi (by some dilects) spelling. Epson291 21:44, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Support 2007

message: #Oppose Matzah may be a more accurate transliteration, but matzoh is the more common and intelligible form in English; can we compromise there? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 05:18, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal.  Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.</div>
It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it be moved. --Stemonitis 06:39, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Oppose 2007

message: Since it was written as if all Ashk. don't eat egg matzah, I gathered aditional sources. Someone with some knoledge of the subject, please look at my edits. I cited Chabad.  Anyways, I tried to provide some more background and reasoning into the subject.  Epson291 02:29, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You should cite the side of the Manischewitz box... That would be an interesting halachic citation. I am actually serious about this as the company is quite reputable for their matzah-making. --Valley2city₪‽ 19:00, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well, if it says anything the streits does, I believe it cites because of shulchan aruch. Epson291 21:13, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Egg matzah 

message: I've been thinking about it, and after a professor who said that anything that ends in a "hey" (ה) should be transliterated ending with an "h", I think this page should be moved to Matzah. And if you're trying the google test, note that most of the results for Matza are people's names or the name of a place in the Star Wars Expanded Universe, so that's not very reliable at all. Valley2city‽ 15:06, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name, revisited 

message: hallo, isn't the main picture in the article just a bit to much free advertising for the matze-company in question? --Ajnem (talk) 11:07, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  advertising 

message: *Support - Ashkenazi spellings and pronunciations are deprecated to Sephardic spellings and pronunciations according to Israel. - UtherSRG (talk) 23:07, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Support

message: I notice that the word is spelled מַצָּה .  In my Hebrew book it says that the word מָצָה means "he/it found (out), reached, obtained", in the Qal form, and in the Niphal, "he/it was found sufficient".  I note that the first vowel is different.  Can anyone comment about whether the two words are forms of the same thing, and if so, whether some relevant information should go into the article?  Thanks,
-- TimNelson (talk) 08:14, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: No connection. The third letter of the food is a heh (similar to H) and the third letter of "found" is an alef (silent a/e/i/o/u). Different root. The plural of matza with an alef would be matza'im (m) or matza'ot (f), not matzot. However, there is no such word. [There is another word, matz'a with an 'ayin, meaning bedding, used mainly in horticulture and construction, and its plural is matza'im where the i is a theoretically-guttural 'ayin, though rarely pronounced that way in modern Hebrew). Sorry that you received this reply after 7.5 years! Monosig (talk) 16:06, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Definition 

message: Blood libels, although false in premise, were a significant part of the persecution of the Jews in many countries, rooted in a Christain myth about Matzah. Due to its significance within the scope of Matzah, there should be at least some mention of Blood libels rather than no mention at all. Colt .55 (talk) 21:50, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blood Libels 

message: As there seems to be such debate about the name of the article, maybe the title should reflect the two main pronunciations (pronunciation is, I think, more of an issue than spelling). So maybe the article should be called something like "Matzah/matzo" (matzah first purely alphabetically, or "matzo/matzah", or any other desired spellings). Or maybe "mozza", one of the OED spellings, which goes well with "pizza"... Pol098 (talk) 17:14, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: "mozza" is a joke, of course. Titles on Wikipedia are singular, that is, follow only one spelling (the one preferred by the Wikipedia naming conventions). That said and done, I'd prefer "matzA" (with or without the "h"). Debresser (talk) 18:01, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  BTW, perhaps we'd use one consistent spelling in the article? Debresser (talk) 18:07, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  consistent spelling ... which would have to be matzo, the article title. I don't have any strong opinion which to use. Inconsistent spelling emphasises that there's disagreement, which is true and relevant, more so perhaps than enforced conformity. Pol098 (talk) 18:15, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: All this discussion assumes that we're speaking of a spelling; I think people are far more concerned about pronunciation. E.g., I think somebody who prefers matzah would be more comfortable with matza than matzo. Pol098 (talk) 18:15, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

text: Please move to matza. It is a Hebrew word and that is how it is pronounced.--Geewhiz (talk) 11:41, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move III 

message: I would suggest that the"Forms of the word" section is best placed at the beginning of the article; most articles with an "etymology" or similar section do this. It is particularly important for this article as the use of different pronunciations by different groups of people (and throughout he article) is otherwise puzzling (the article should make sense to someone who knows nothing about the subject). I had originally placed it at the beginning, but it has been moved near the bottom. I don't think I should make this change; if there is consensus that it should be near the beginning I suggest that it be moved there. Pol098 (talk) 23:54, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Position of "Forms of the word" section 

message: In the Ingredients section, the third paragraph begins with "Biblically, five specific species of grain become chametz after wetting." Instead of "Biblically" would not "Halakhally" be more accurate as this assertion is based mostly on halakha, not directly from the biblical text? — al-Shimoni (talk) 01:53, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree. What is meant is that according to halakha this is de'oraita not miderabanan. 07:32, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ingredients § — "Biblically" and Five Species 

message: The section on the five grains that can become chametz includes the claim that all Triticum grains are forbidden, but three of the five listed (einkorn, emmer, and durum) are Triticum species.  Can someone resolve this discrepancy? chrylis (talk) 10:34, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Five grains and genus idenfitication 

message: I don't care what the spelling is, and certainly don't care to get into that battle with anyone1 (which is why I'm not inclined to make the necessary changes myself), but it would be really nice if consistent spelling could be used throughout the article. As it stands right now, the title is "Matzo", the introductory paragraph lists "matza" as the primary spelling and "matzah" as the secondary, and throughout the article, "matza" and "matzah" are in free variation, ignoring "matzo" despite it being the title of the article. Also, though "matzot" is (correctly) listed as the plural, within that same paragraph, "matzos" (I'm not sure whether that's English plural -s or the Ashkenazi t > s sound change) is used as the plural. Meanwhile, the article on balls made of it is titled "Matzah balls", so even the titles aren't consistent with each other, making finding related articles confusing.
1 Though if anyone cares: I'm an Ashkenazi/Sephardi Jew and native speaker of American English with a bit of Yiddish; I usually spell it <matzoh> but occasionally fall back on <matzah> (how I spelled it when I was little); and pronounce it [ˈmɑ.ʦə]. I have never seen it spelled without a final <-h> by anyone I know (which includes Ashkenazim, Sephardim, Mizrahim, and Goyim), only on packaging or the internet; and have only heard it pronounced [ˈmɑ.ʦə] or [ˈmɑ.ʦi], the latter only by Lubavitchers. -- AudiblySilenced (talk) 05:15, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Consistency of spelling 

message: Matza. This website has the possible etymology of matzoh. Komitsuki (talk) 14:00, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etymology 

message: Through a roundabout way, I read the article on spelt, then followed it here.  The spelt article mentions that the usage of spelt in Ezekiel 4:9 is presumably a mistranslation, and should actually be emmer, as spelt wasn't grown in the area.  For that matter, after reading the article on Chametz, rye and oats aren't native to Israel either.
I see nothing about this in this article, and I think there should be mention of the disagreement or uncertainty over the five grains.68.12.195.143 (talk) 16:51, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ingredients: Spelt vs. Emmer 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hi -- the "matzo ball" links in the "Cooking with matzo" section don't link to the food article but instead link to the page "Matzo Ball" which is a Christmas Eve social event. I am new and don't make wikipedia edits; could someone with more experience correct these? This occurs both in the body of the section and in the image caption. I believe it is due to the spelling of "matzo" vs "matzah" that the links go to the incorrect page. 98.172.28.240 (talk) 16:51, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for pointing that out. I've changed the redirection on "Matzo ball" (with a lowercase "b") to "Matzah ball", which does seem like the more likely target. Nitpicking polish (talk) 18:35, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Matzo Ball" links in "Cooking with matzo" section incorrect 

message: :The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 
The result of the move request was: Moved (non-admin closure) >>> Extorc.talk 08:09, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Matzo →  – This was last discussed 12 years ago, when "Matzo" was apparently the most common name. Google search now turns up more results for "Matzah", and Ngram shows a significant gap. The "Matzah" spelling is also closer to prevailing English models for Hebrew transliteration, including WP:HE. GordonGlottal (talk) 04:03, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Requested move 12 June 2022 

message: @Pookerella: it would seem that the issue is deeper than simply an "incorrect" spelling of "matzah", wouldn't you think? Elizium23 (talk) 21:10, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I refer editors to the immediately preceding section. It's a little soon for another move request, though unfortunately there weren't many editors involved. Arguments should be based on WP:TITLE guidelines. GordonGlottal (talk) 00:31, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: The article can have only one title, but the topic can be spelled in myriad ways throughout the article, with varying justifications. There is no justification for Pookerella to excise "matzah" from it. Elizium23 (talk) 00:32, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Transliteration 

message: Soft matzah is produced commercially, and is sold frozen because of the short shelf life. 2A06:C701:440B:6B00:ECCC:749D:5A5:D5AF (talk) 07:29, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Soft matzah 

message: The edit by our colleague  (w/o summary), who has removed the tag at the top of the page sending users looking for the actress called Emma Matzo at birth to her own page, has driven my attention to the illogical redirect from "matzo" to "matzah". Illogical because there are 3 items called matzo or Matzo: the actress, the Matzo Ball and Matzo lasagna, plus 3 items starting with matzo-. I have therefore started a DAB page with these items, with matzah linked in the lead, the 3 exact matches listed underneath the lead, and a "See also" with the matzo- items. The invisible technical details will have to be added, if thought necessary, by those who know how.
My only issue is: the resulting talk page is still connecting to this one. Who can please fix that? Thanks, Arminden (talk) 23:05, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Matzo: own DAB page, not redirect to here 

message: What is the Manischewitz company homepage doing at External links?! Arminden (talk) 08:41, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Get the advertisement out of here 

message: As far as I can tell, unleavened bread is the oldest type ever to be baked, the oldest sample was found at a Natufian site in Jordan's Black Desert
and is 14,500 year old. But it could have been anywhere in the region, I guess, as that culture and previous ones spread across the Southern Levant and possibly a wider area of the Fertile Crescent. So the fellow editor who replaced Egypt with Canaan, but w/o a source, was onto something geographically speaking, but the term suggests a later civilization than the Epipalaeolithic (see Natufian), so not that accurate either. I've removed Ancient Egypt as place of origin, because that's unsupported in every way you look at it - both archaeologically (possible theoretically, but Jordan ain't Egypt not) and biblically (leavened bread was typically and symbolically the Egyptian "thing" to be left behind). Arminden (talk) 11:42, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: See History of bread#Prehistory and  History of bread#Egypt. Arminden (talk) 12:00, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin