Talk:Wayne DuMond

message: * Sources are easy enough to find through Google. Beware of using blogs.
* No need to create empty sections. Let it grow organically and then sectionize when it becomes needed.
* Follow WP:BLP, where ever it applies (e.g. living victims). Marskell (talk) 17:04, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hope I'm doing this right - I reset the two "citation needed" markers to refer to the exact paragraph in the Arkansas article referring to the Freedom of Information Act violations and the fact that even the executive session would typically be recorded, - I had had it point to the article in general, was this better? In any case it would be good to have someone competent look it over, since I only started this one because the whole case is weird, and editing the entry as I got the facts straightened out helped clarify it for me. For a tour de force in 'ick', look at the free republic threads.  Take care  69.130.188.67 (talk) 14:19, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The refs are a bit messy, to be honest. But you were doing your best :). Start an account; it will be easier to give you pointers. Marskell (talk) 21:50, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notes on getting started 

message: Dumond has six children, I believe.  I do not know if the children should be listed in the article.  It seems suspect to my judgment.  Jmegill (talk) 16:33, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, there is no good reason to list his children here by name.  Privacy and WP:BLP. --Newsroom hierarchies (talk) 16:51, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree on the names of the children.  I found one reference claiming that some of the children were the product of rape, but even if it were a reliable source and even if it were true, listing the children's names would be a (needlessly cruel) invasion of privacy. However, as both of his latter wives played important roles in his pardon controversy, their names are relevant. Dusty met with Huckabee several times, and Terry Sue was part of the church group trying to get him out of prison.  The entry for his first wife's name presently reads "unknown" not out of concern for her privacy, but because I  couldn't find it. However, if I could find it, I'd still hesitate, as so far as I know, she played no public role in his life, unlike the later wives. -- LisaSmall T/C 03:45, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Privacy for children and wives

message: This isn't something I want to make a "thing" over because it's a somewhat minor matter of accuracy, but is it DuMond or Dumond?  Contrary to the claims of the editor who moved the page, most news sources have gone with Dumond, at least according to a Google News search.  It would be nice if we could find some official source that provides us the answer. --Newsroom hierarchies (talk) 16:51, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: According to this court document, the spelling is "Dumond".  Given the fact that the Arkansas Times and many other news sources use this spelling, I would argue that this article should use "Dumond", not "DuMond". If no one objects, I will make these changes. --Newsroom hierarchies (talk) 18:22, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmmm.  Alright, well if "DuMond" was what he called himself, then I guess that's what the article title should be (though I think we agree that more a reliable source  than a blog comment would be nice).  I did change "DuMond" to "Dumond" in the titles of article citations where the "Dumond" spelling is used b ut left the rest alone. --Newsroom hierarchies (talk) 19:56, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Whatever the main sources do. I was with lower case, in my first look. Do we have a source saying that he changed the spelling? Marskell (talk) 21:52, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Spelling of name

message: From CNN.com on 6Dec2007: "The case of the rapist, Wayne DuMond, began in 1985, when he was accused of raping a 17-year-old girl. He was later convicted and sentenced to a life term.  Before trial, DuMond was attacked in his home and castrated, and the local sheriff kept the severed testicles in a jar. No charges were brought in the attack."  Is there another source confirming that he was castrated?  If so, what form of rape did he use in his later attacks?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.168.127.10 (talk) 20:53, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As for raping after castration, it is far from impossible. Check the Wiki article on castration.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rockgolf (talk • contribs) 13:04, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

text: The DNA samples which convicted him in the murder of the first Missouri woman were taken from his skin under her fingernails, not semen.  Numerous sources refer to his castration and to the possibility that it was self-inflicted while drunk.  Probably some of those will be added to the article soon, as Mike Huckabee has said Dumond's castration was highly relevant in creating his feelings of pity for the man.  Males (of any mammalian species) castrated after adolescence are usually still capable of erections and thus of penile rape; but I don't know if his assaults on the two Missouri women were penile.  The court records probably have these details.  -- LisaSmall T/C 04:57, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Castration

message: To all new editors: Please do not just copy and paste text from other articles into this one.  When you do so, someone else eventually will have to change or remove your entries. See the policy on copyright violations. --Newsroom hierarchies (talk) 17:10, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Pardon my confusion - but if putting the exact quote in the reference is a copyright violation (I should think that would be fair use(?)), and just putting a link to the article is considered insufficient and gets a marker, I'm not sure of the correct citation method.  Unless I accidentally copied something out directly - I tried to distill information down, but there's only so many ways to rephrase some factual information. Perhaps I lack imagination?  65.119.188.9 (talk) 22:42, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: REPLY: I don't think you need (or should) copy the actual text from the original source. It should be sufficient to use the same format as the earlier references to the Arkansas Times article, for example at the current Ref #6. Preferable still would be to have the numerous references to this article as "citations", with a single common reference. But I haven't been able to succesfully format that. Any volunteers?Rockgolf (talk) 01:16, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done,  using standard REF NAME= for subsequent references to the same citation. Also put long quotes into BLOCKQUOTE format to make more clear that they are not Wikipedia's original materials. -- LisaSmall T/C 03:35, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

text: REPLY: User 65.119.188.9, If I understand the Q&A above here correctly, I disagree with Rockgolf and believe that you should quote exact words when that's appropriate, particularly when the Wiki quote is of a news quote from one of the individuals involved.  Extensive non-speaking quotes from news items are where we can run into copyvio trouble.  However, if (in this article or some other) you were quoting to show the kind of news coverage (as in a quote from an editorial), then a direct quote of the heart of the item might be necessary. -- LisaSmall T/C 14:51, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Copyviolations

message: Isnt' there a homicide which DuMond participated in plus a 1974 rape in Arkansas that was never prosecuted?  Jmegill (talk) 00:49, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, there were several prior crimes.  I added minimal information today, with citations, and will try to come back and be more thorough as more information is reported by reliable secondary sources. -- LisaSmall T/C 03:46, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: What about prior crimes?

message: I would like to know more about this. Who were the victims? How many died, and how did they die? How did DuMond's experience in Cambodia influence his later actions? People get angry about the Americans DuMond murdered, but barely a mention is made of the Cambodian "village" of human beings who died in the "slaughter". Why? Isn't this an important insight into why he commit his later crimes? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.201.103.116 (talk) 04:20, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd like to know more about it too, but we can only go by what's in the public record, and the comment in the article is all that there is about this.  You can follow the citation to read the original article. -- LisaSmall T/C 08:13, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: "slaughter a village of Cambodians"

message: I believe the size and weight of the info that Lamarcranford is adding on the huckabeefacts.com video are out of proportion to the actual impact of the video. In the 4 days the video has been up (to Dec 17) only about 45,000 views of the video have taken place. That doesn't even put it in the top 25 if all views were in a single day. Hardly "viral". It may yet become "devastating", but at this point, the long article, including a complete transcript of the video, seems to be more of a way to get publicity for the video than any realistic statement of the video's impact. Rockgolf (talk) 14:45, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Huckabeefacts.com video - Worth mentioning yet? 

message: I took this out of the article today: Two more have confirmed that statement but did not wish to be named; however, since the board chairman, Leroy Brownlee, has gone on the record denying that Huckabee sought to influence the board, the two anonymous members can only be August Pieroni and Fred Allen.   This sentence relied on the "REVISITED" reference. I pulled it because it is speculation, which Wikipedia policy does not allow.  Also, although I was tempted to do the same thing myself (at least in my head, not for use in Wiki), it may be inaccurate speculation.  
We don't know, for instance, whether Brownlee himself was the anonymous board member in 2002 who said Huckabee applied pressure.  Brownlee's public statements to the contrary now don't prove he didn't say something else anonymously then.  Also, one board member has died.  Perhaps that board member was the anonymous fourth member.  Three who went on the record in 2002 saying Huckabee applied pressure were Chastain, Suttlar, and Pondexter, plus the anonymous fourth.  In 2007, the only two named in recent articles (as of research done the first week of December, 2007) were Chastain and Suttlar.  So the other two might have been Pondexter and the deceased, or Pondexter and Brownlee, or Pondexter plus either Pieroni or Allen, rather than Pieroni and Allen.  I don't know the name of the deceased member, nor whether Pieroni and Allen are still alive.  -- LisaSmall T/C 08:23, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Identify board members 

message: This is ridiculous. The introductory paragraphs call him a "criminal", but don't mention him being a murderer until the very end and don't mention him being a rapist at all! A "criminal" can be someone who embezzles money, someone who litters or someone who drives with a busted tail-light. I'm going to edit the introductory paragraphs to make it clearer what he actually did. Odiumjunkie (talk) 17:21, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  He's not a "criminal", he's a rapist and a murderer 

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thread_title:  External links modified