Talk:Sprezzatura

message: "Compared to Perugino’s more youthful representation of Joseph, Raphael’s version of Joseph is considerably more idealized and older. " -- I'm confused by this part because, according to the accompany pics, Raphael's Joseph is clearly the younger looking of the two.72.140.96.54 (talk) 05:00, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Contradictory description of images

message: I have read Castiglione many times and I think the best expression of Sprezzatura (with all of the high stakes it entails) was from an eleven year old boy.  He was with a small group of boys in front of a New York office building on a Summer day.  I was early for an appointment.  The boy came skating up to a staircase, hopped his board, and himself up on to the banister, sliding all the way down, nailing the landing.  As I was at the base of the stairs I could see what his friends could not: the look of sheer terror as he slid, the look of elation and pride as he landed, and the utter nonchalance that swept over his face as he kicked the tail of his board up into his hand as he turned to his friends as if to say, "whatever." Benfidar (talk) 01:19, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: The need for illustrative examples.

message: I first encountered this term in a number of graduate art history courses in Rome and, in every case, Raphael was linked to the meaning of Sprezzatura.  The term consistently came up whenever Raphael’s legendary skills were described. I vividly recall how the terms: "seemingly effortless" and "throwaway quality" were consistently used when describing the impressions of those who watched Raphael draw. The traditional story was that Raphael made drawing look so easy that the viewer became convinced they could also draw as well, afterwards.  
And, isn't this what genuine artistry really is—to make an illusion so convincing and real for the viewer that they think they can create it also? Moreover, and to achieve this effect, every artist has to practice their craft to the point where the how is subsumed by the what. I'm reminded of the Zen term shibui (simple, subtle, and unobtrusive beauty) and the Zen admonition: "If I point to the moon, don't dwell on my finger!" Also, on this point, only an ambitious self-seeker would intentionally try to make an activity look more difficult and sacrifice artistry for advancement. 
Finally, the Raphael and Perugino are indeed apt examples for illustrating the subtlety and nuance of knowledge, skill, and the advancement of awareness in Renaissance painting. [RobertDenteRobertDente (talk) 16:48, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: The examples are apt.

message: Makes me think of the Godfather 2, when the guy offers De Niro a rug, and instead of jumping on it, he mulls it over and casually says "Sure, I guess so". I've known a couple of italian people who do this, and I never got it until I read this page.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.125.175.160 (talk) 02:53, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: There's a word for this?

message: For example, when the WASP senator in the same film adopts a certain nonchalance when attempting to downplay his sexual...improprieties ('peccadilloes' ?)...Stonewhite 22:56, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: yes, but then the WASP applies to it, unawares

message: The last paragraph of the "positive and negative aspects" is basically incoherent.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.180.123.131 (talk) 08:45, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree. It seems to me an over interpretation.  Plus, no positive attributes are described!! First of all, Castiglione's concept of "The art that conceals art" is not original with him. It is an antique one and is elaborated by Cicero in his treatise on rhetoric. The stress on the supposed negative aspects of sprezzatura spills over beyond Castiglione's use of the term, into the court politics of those who adopted it. You might say that all rules of politeness have this negative aspect, not just "sprezzatura", in that they require people to make an effort to conceal their "true" feelings. Thus, you may not like Grandma's Christmas gift, but you say "thank you" anyway, out of consideration for her feelings. The idea of sincerity itself as a virtue, however, is a modern one, that only became popular in the Romantic period. Mballen (talk) 01:20, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: "Postive and negative attributes" is incoherent

message: This example derives from the specialized field of art appreciation. The author has gone into some detail in order to demonstrate the nuances of a painting. It seems to be more an introduction to Art History 101 that a simple illustration of the word in question. Perhaps it could be used as an example of the antithesis of sprezzatura!118.211.143.32 (talk) 22:29, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  too much weight