Talk:Illinois/Archive 2

message: The Religion table in this article has a note indicating that its source is http://www.gc.cuny.edu/faculty/research_briefs/aris/key_findings.htm . However, the values in the article table do not exactly match the numbers in that source. For one thing, it appears to me that someone revised the values so the religious preferences would add up to 100%. In the source, 4% of the survey respondents "refused," so the percentage total of religious preferences is only 96%. In this article, however, it appears that the percentages of some of the larger groups were arbitrarily adjusted upward to make the total equal 100%: Catholics from 29 to 30, Baptists from 11 to 12, Methodists from 6 to 7, and "no religion" from 15 to 16. Other numbers don't match at all (for example, the source indicates that the total of non-Christian religions is 6%, not 4%). Since the source is identified, I am going to make the article match the source. --orlady 18:33, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Religion 

message: In the United States, there is not official language, but English is the de facto language. I know that some states have adopted some official languages. My question is: As Illinois adopted an official language?--Ed ¿Cómo estás?Reviews? 14:51, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You could just click the Official language link in the template, Languages_in_the_United_States#Official_language_status. No sources there though. Alternately, you could type Illinois official language into Google, the first link, says "ILCS Chapter 5, Section 460/20 – Official Language (1969) - The official language of the State of Illinois is English". And that appears to match with the actual ILCS, "(5 ILCS 460/20) (from Ch. 1, par. 2901‑20) - Sec. 20. Official language. The official language of the State of Illinois is English." --Dual Freq 15:08, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I remember, as a child growing up in Illinois, being taught that ours was the only state in the Union to have adopted American as the official language of the state, rather than English.  Since I was only taught that by one teacher (my 7th grade social studies teacher) I had come to believe that it was just once more piece of BS that I had been fed by a wayward educator.  But reading this, I decided to look, and here it is:  Illinois adopted American as its official language in 1923. Unschool 16:46, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Whatever was adopted in 1923, the official http://www.ilga.gov/ source cited above says "English" is currently the official language, not "American." --orlady 17:07, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

text: "American" isn't a language, my friend. You might be referring to American English--Ed ¿Cómo estás?Reviews? 17:26, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hey, "my friend", I'm not saying that American is a language, I'm just pointing out that Illinois passed a statute back in the 1920s declaring "American" the official language.  And if, Orlady, I thought that it was still the official "language", I would have changed it in the infobox.  I did not do so, because a tiny bit more research showed that it was changed to English in 1969.  Jeez, folks, this is a talk page, and I just thought it was an interesting—even unique, documented piece of trivia.  Relax, the world continues to both rotate and revolve. Unschool 17:38, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  English as official language 

message: It seems to me that some of the recent changes in the History section, by Rjensen, have diminished the information value of the article and have deleted an important source. Specifically, I liked the following passage better than what has replaced it: 
The northern border of the states of Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois had been defined before their statehoods as the latitudinal line passing through the southern tip of Lake Michigan. Indiana's border had been shifted north by ten miles to provide usable frontage on the lake. The original bill for the creation of the state of Illinois set the northern boundary on the same line as Indiana but Nathaniel Pope, the delegate from Illinois, introduced an amendment shifting the border 41 miles north to 42° 30' north, which added 8,500 square miles to the state, the port of Chicago and, more significant at the time, Galena and the lead mining region of northwest Illinois. This amendment was accepted in Congress without dissent, but in 1840-1842 the residents of the northern counties of Illinois attempted to secede and join Wisconsin.Meinig, D.W. (1993). The Shaping of America: A Geographical Perspective on 500 Years of History, Volume 2: Continental America, 1800-1867. New Haven: Yale University Press. ISBN 0-300-05658-3; pg. 436
The capital remained at Kaskaskia, but in 1819 it was decided to move the capital up the Kaskaskia River to Vandalia.
Do others share this view, or do you like these changes? --orlady 17:41, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I tend to agree that I would like this information left in; more history is good.  However, I would suggest placing the info about the attempted secession of the northern states in its own paragraph, and perhaps expanding it. Unschool 17:52, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  History changes 

message: No idea where to put this...
About 2,000 Native American hunters and a small number of French villagers inhabited the area at the time of the American Revolution. 
I don't buy this. 2000 seems awfully small... is there a citation for this?
::Encyclopedia of North American Indians By Frederick E. Hoxie p 267 says the Illinois Indians numbered 25,000 at their peak but by 1750 had been reduced 90% (to 2500) and many left Illinois because they disliked the british who took over in 1760s. That makes 2000 a reasonable number. Rjensen 02:12, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Native American numbers 

message: Illinois has a new state fruit, the apple. I think it should be put into "Illinois Symbols" Ed Vice 17:35, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Request a source for the state fruit as apple. Illinois symbols doesn't list a fruit and there is nothing in the (5 ILCS 460/) State Designations Act about a state fruit. According to SB0199 of 95th General Assembly the bill making the GoldRush apple the state fruit has not passed and has not been signed by the Governor. Wikipedia should wait for it to actually pass before adding it to the article. --Dual Freq 01:07, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  State Fruit 

message: In the artical Illinois' state fruit,the apple, and state flower,the native violet,the state tree,the white oak,and a state nickname,the corn state,will not show,also the part of the artical saying "appearently meaning 's/he speaks normaly' should be changed to she/he speaks normaly shouldn't it?.I think this is important information about Illinois and should be shown and when i try to add it it is always edited out.Can someone please add this information?Thank you!
Anon 24.110.37.104 00:17, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: As of today, there is still no official state fruit for Illinois. The other state items listed above are already included in the article in the list of symbols. The Corn State is still Iowa, which was printed on their license plates for a time. Looking at statistics from the National Agricultural Statistics Service, it looks like Iowa produced more corn than Illinois every year since 1980 except for 1993, possibly due to weather (Great Flood of 1993?). Going back to 1900, of 107 years, Iowa exceeded Illinois in corn production in 85 of those years. If Iowa is the Corn State, as their license plate claims and statistics seem to support, how can Illinois be the Corn State too? Bottom line is if you want to add something, produce a reliable source and no one will remove it. --Dual Freq 01:57, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing information about the state. 

message: Two points—
*This did not "launch Lincoln's political career"; he had been elected to Congress more than a decade earlier.
*This was not what would "draw national attention to the issue of slavery in the territories", as that had already been the single biggest issue facing Congress for nearly 40 years, as evidenced by the Missouri Compromise (1820) and the Compromise of 1850. Unschool 22:49, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Significance of Lincoln Douglas debates 

message: I am going to post here the Peer Review so we can check it off as we do them. I would like to start working on getting this back to GA. Here they are:
The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.
*See if possible if there is a free use image that can go on the top right corner of this article.[?]
*There may be an applicable infobox for this article. For example, see Template:Infobox Biography, Template:Infobox School, or Template:Infobox City.[?] (Note that there might not be an applicable infobox; remember that these suggestions are not generated manually)
*Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (numbers), there should be a non-breaking space -   between a number and the unit of measurement. For example, instead of 41 miles, use 41 miles, which when you are editing the page, should look like: 41 miles.[?]
*Per Wikipedia:Context and Wikipedia:Build the web, years with full dates should be linked; for example, link January 15, 2006.[?]
*Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (headings), headings generally should not repeat the title of the article. For example, if the article was Ferdinand Magellan, instead of using the heading ==Magellan's journey==, use ==Journey==.[?]
*Per WP:WIAFA, this article's table of contents (ToC) may be too long- consider shrinking it down by merging short sections or using a proper system of daughter pages as per Wikipedia:Summary style.[?]
*There are a few occurrences of weasel words in this article- please observe WP:AWT. Certain phrases should specify exactly who supports, considers, believes, etc., such a view.
**are considered
**might be weasel words, and should be provided with proper citations (if they already do, or are not weasel terms, please strike this comment).[?] 
*Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.[?]
You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, APR t 22:08, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Automated Peer Review 

message: There have been a lot of IP edits to the article lately, particularly from User:207.193.87.114 and many of these have been reverted (including by me). After a message on my talk and review of this user's edits I now believe that this is a good faith editor trying to correct incorrect information in the pre-Columbian history section of the article. See here User talk:207.193.87.114 for more info. I'd suggest checking IP edits to this article very carefully before reverting (I didn't!). Cheers and good luck with the GA submission. Paxse 02:35, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What's there now was briefly discussed in the past Talk:Illinois/Archive_2#Native_American_numbers and is currently cited. The changes made directly conflicted with the cited materials. Personally, I'd trust User:Rjensen before an anon contributor, I think he wrote the current section. --Dual Freq 02:53, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you check the recent history the changes attempted by the IP editor also have citations. She/He also reverted their own changes when the cites failed to appear correctly. This is clearly a new user who is learning our sometimes complex and illogical wiki markup system and a good faith editor who is trying to correct what they believe is erroneous information. If you are aiming for GA and then FA status it would be worth while checking the cited facts in the article in any case - and it would be good to have another productive and interested editor helping to polish the article. Cheers, Paxse 03:26, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  IP Edits 

message: Illinois has just banned smoking in public places - effective 1/1/2008.  Given that whole contries as well as other states(?) have enacted such legislation, perhaps we need a category for this type of information.  It sure would give traveling folks a heads-up when trip planning.  Rklawton 20:50, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Smoking 

message: Lots of Vandalism on this page. ---Redmarkviolinist  (talk)Editor Review 04:11, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No edit specified. If you want to have the page protected, please see WP:RPP. Sandstein (talk) 06:41, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit Protect? 

message: Source #59 does not exist any more ("The page cannot be found").  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.139.107.143 (talk) 14:22, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong / Non-existing source 

message: Re. lead section -- Peoria has always stood for social and cultural averageness, as in: But will it play in Peoria? Will the average American accept whatever the proposition is? Of course, there is nothing wrong with (and there is everything good with) standing for average America. However, "average" conflicts with "bellwether," an entity that "serves to create or influence trends or to presage future happenings." (If averageness is thought to sound too negative, read normalcy.) -- Iterator12n  Talk  02:00, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Peoria a proverbial social and cultural bellwether - not 

message: Both Illinois's (trailing S) and Illinois' (no trailing S) are used in this article. We should pick one, use it consistently here, and try to ensure that the same consistency is used on other articles. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 15:18, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Illinois's versus Illinois' 

message: I added spoken languages as seen for the Arizona page.  Can be seen here http://www.city-data.com/states/Illinois-Languages.html  Oak999 (talk) 01:55, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added "spoken languages" 

message: is not accurate The US Census has 2008 figures now shouldnt it be changed? As well as other states?
http://www.census.gov/popest/states/NST-ann-est.html  —Preceding unsigned comment added by TwinCityIL (talk • contribs) 13:40, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  The population figure 

message: I started the section about Law enforcement in Illinois, There are full articles on law enforcement in other states, so a few gacts about illinois should not be a problem. I would greatly appreciate any help on expanding this section beyond just the list of agencies page.--Never give up! Never surrender! (talk) 04:52, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Law Enforcement in Illinois 

message: Disagreement:
From my research, it seems as though Illinois can be pronounced both: ILL-UH-NOY and ILL-UH-NOIZ. Due to this, I edited the main page to include ILL-UH-NOYZ as a proper pronunciation of the word Illinois. However, it seems as though there is disagreement over this, and my edit has been since reversed. 
Evidence:
Proof that this pronunciation is in fact acceptable and real can be seen by referring to the Merriam-Webster dictionary, a reputed and well-respected dictionary of the English language.
See: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/illinois
Hopefully, someone will make the change and add "Ill-uh-noiz" as a proper pronunciation; or else, I will continue to re-add it as necessary.
Onixz100 (talk) 06:12, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Seriously? Who pronounces it like that? Is there any other reputable source that provides a similar pronunciation? Qqqqqq (talk) 06:16, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

text: Whether it can be and whether it commonly is pronounced that way are two different things.  I believe there were some dialects in the 20th century that put a Z on the end of Illinois, as in New Jersey (think "Joizy"), but nobody (apart from Merriam-Webster, apparently) has alleged that it's a proper or particularly current pronunciation. I would expect to see multiple sources, and attention to WP:UNDUE.  As for edit-warring to put it in, you may consider yourself warned. Acroterion (talk) 11:50, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

text: Dude, you are a Wikipedia editor, and you have notified us by posting on this talk page. Abductive (reasoning) 09:18, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Debate over the pronunciation of Illinois 

message: In the Religion subsection of Demographics, the word Jews is linked to American Jews. That page, however, discusses ethnicity and related social phenomena as well as religion. Wouldn't Judaism, which primarily discusses the religion and includes a short section on broader social issues, be a better target for the link, given its context here? Cnilep (talk) 21:45, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jews and Judaism 

message: Greetings.
Illinois is a 'created' word borrowed to Algonquin meaning "warriors"/"braves" .
The Illini Confederation was in constant fierce struggle against North, East, West and South tribes.
Anyone can invalidate this ? Else the section should be updated.
By the way, most First Nations tribes, in their own language, referred to themselves simply as 'the men' or 'the people' .
About the pronunciation.
The word was first coined by french ethnologists; for information,
in french rarely you vocalize the 's' at the end of a word even more rarely when it is a plural.
Some example where the 's' is skipped in french: Creuse/Creusois - Yvelines/Yvelinois - ( state / inhabitant )
Anyway more tuneful when spoken 'illinoi'.  (:
Regards.
_'Anyone who isn't confused really doesn't understand the situation. ERM'_ | (talk)  08:02, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: What are you talking about? The etymology of "Illinois" is already noted in the article, as is its pronunciation. What's more, the the demonym is "Illinoisan", not "Illinoisian", and the "s" is not pronounced in it, either. -Rrius (talk) 02:21, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

text: If you are in fact Costa, you should absolutely not be editing that. It is a WP:Conflict of interest. If you wish to dispute how the research is being used, prove who you are and discuss your issues here. I'm not exactly what the procedure is for proving who you are, but there is one, and someone else will probably weigh in with the answer. If you are not Costa, that was a pretty pathetic thing to claim. -Rrius (talk) 01:52, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, I've just registered with Wikipedia for the first time, and don't have all the procedures down. I'm not sure how you want me to prove who I am. However, I can cite published and peer-reviewed linguistic articles about the etymologies of these names, which Mister Fay has not done.Djcosta (talk) 02:09, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, I don't know how it is done, but there is a process. If you wait long enough, someone will let you know. I don't know or care about the etymology of "Illinois", but your edits removed a substantial block of text that was actually fairly sophisticated and quoted its source, replacing it with something rather more simplistic. In the end, it is not what the writer believes, but what the writer wrote, that matters. Instead of edit warring as you did, you should have explained your concerns here. I invited you to do, twice now, but you have still failed to do that. Please explain exactly how the prior version gets the source wrong and how what you propose gets it right. Also please explain why you thought it best to replace something that was sourced with something that is almost completely unsourced. -Rrius (talk) 02:34, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

text: Also, you admit you are new to Wikipedia, so why didn't you stop editing when you were reverted and asked to explain your edits? Why did not one of your edits contain an edit summary explaining what you were doing and why it was necessary? Since you are new, I will refer you to WP:Three-revert rule, which you've already violated and could get blocked for; WP:Consensus, a key pillar of what we do here; WP:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle, which explains what you should have done when your edit was challenged; and WP:Verify, which should seem natural if you really are an academic. -Rrius (talk) 02:41, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

text: The prior version included no fewer than eight sources (including three by Costa), where yours only provides one. Instead of pointing to literature that contradicts the assertion conflicting with Costa's research, you have merely removed it. That is intellectually dishonest, and shows exactly why, if you are in fact Costa, you should not be directly editing the section. I would therefore ask you to revert your own edits (which would also have the effect of ameliorating your 3RR violation (and making far less likely you'd get blocked). Then, you can explain here exactly what your problem is and exactly what reliable sources verify your position, preferably including quotations from the source material. -Rrius (talk) 02:54, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see anything at Wikipedia:Conflict of interest where it says a published professional should not edit articles in which he/she has been cited. The COI guideline (note, not policy) is mostly about avoiding advancing one's personal interests instead of working to improve Wikipedia. I have not read all the edits here in detail so cannot give an opinion on the details of this disagreement. But if someone's published work is being misused I see no reason why they should not fix it. Deleting other reliable sources that differ would be more problematic. Pfly (talk) 08:04, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

text: Looking more closely I have a few more comments. If Costa's work is controversial, then it would be appropriate to mention him by name and comment about it--and provide citiations saying or at least suggesting it is controversial. But the article's citiations before Djcosta's recent edits did not exactly do this. In fact the text strikes me as unencyclopedic. After describing Costa's theory, it said, However, a search of the early missionary/explorer records before 1800 for "Inoka" or "*Inoka" does not produce any hits because, of course, the expression first appeared in print in 2000. This was referenced to Search Results: nothing found. (n.d.) Retrieved October 21, 2002--someone literally searched some online database and found nothing, and used that as a reference. That's hardly a reliable source. Plus, the wording "does not produce any hits" sounds like Internet slang. Further, the claim "because, of course, the expression first appeared in print in 2000" is not backed up by the reference cited. The phrase "of course" suggests, to me, that whoever wrote this has a personal disagreement with Costa's theory. Anyway, this bit of text was followed by another reference about an Internet search returning results, referenced to a search page that, yes, returned results. This is not a reliable source either. It strikes me as original research, or at least a interpretation synthesis based on a database search result, not a simple reliable source. It looks to me like someone putting forth an opinion without sources, relying instead on the interpretation of database search results. If this is a real issue there must be better sources out there. Pfly (talk) 08:23, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Read COI more closely. It says you have to be damned careful in citing yourself, which is exactly what this person says he is doing. In so doing, he has removed text that contradicts his position. He also removed several sources, including three to what is supposed to be his own work (and which quoted the same). It may well be that this person is Costa and that the concerns are valid, but blundering in and making these edits was not the right way to handle it, especially after being challenged to back himself up. I would note that the editor has still failed to provide a real explanation of what was wrong and how he, if he really is Costa, was misconstrued. Finally, It is no good for you to attack the sources as though I am defending them. I said I don't know or care about the etymology of "Illinois". My only concern is that the article be the best it can. It doesn't strike me as the best way forward to allow someone to come in and remove large blocks of text, including eight sources (at least some of which clearly are reliable), then attempt to justify him- or herself by saying he correcting a "misinterpretation" of his work when he really removed references to the work of the person he is claiming to be along with direct quotes therefrom as well as anything challenging that person's conclusions. If you don't see the conflict of interest, I suggest you don't know what one is. I also suggest that if you think I was wrong to challenge the supposed Costa, you have strange ideas about how Wikipedia is supposed to work. -Rrius (talk) 18:03, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: No, not wrong. Seemed a bit bitey, which is probably what provoked my response. Pfly (talk) 18:41, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: What was written on this talk page is not the sum total of the discussion, so your response was based on inadequate information. -Rrius (talk) 18:48, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: My apologies. I've begun to look into the topic--the etymology of the word Illinois--and will try to improve the section about it here. I'm a sucker for etymological toponymicalness. Pfly (talk) 19:13, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin of State's Name 

message: According to an Illinois law, English is not the official language. American is.
English would be like British English
American English is... yea.  12.34.35.163 (talk) 07:43, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure if this is still the law, but in 1923, this did become law in Illinois (not in the 1950s, as I said in my edit summary).  See here. HuskyHuskie (talk) 12:39, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It does appear to have changed in the 1960s.  See here. HuskyHuskie (talk) 12:40, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay then... 12.34.35.152 (talk) 15:38, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Language 

message: Where does the number of 2,458 inhabitants come from? Were there exact census data in 1800 anyway? --Hans-Jürgen Hübner (talk) 14:36, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, there have been (at least basic) census counts every ten years since 1790. (It's mandated by the Constitution.) Keep in mind that American Indians wouldn't have been counted at the time, so that is only the non-Indian population of Illinois. AlexiusHoratius 15:52, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course, the constitutional mandate only includes those areas that will be electing members of the United States House of Representatives, but I'm guessing that they did in fact, enumerate those in the official territories as well, if for no other reason than to be able to ascertain when sufficient numbers were achieved to allow statehood. HuskyHuskie (talk) 17:18, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: True; I suppose another question is how did they know how many people were in Illinois, as the borders of the present state had not yet been set. (I'm guessing everyone in the Northwest Territory would have been lumped together in 1800). But this is probably a matter for the Reference desk more than here. AlexiusHoratius 19:43, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed; if anyone at the Reference Desk can authoritatively answer that question, I'd be very impressed. HuskyHuskie (talk) 23:34, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Where do I find the Reference Desk? --Hans-Jürgen Hübner (talk) 10:56, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:Reference desk/Humanities. AlexiusHoratius 15:36, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  census data 

message: Illinois does not share a border with Tennessee. Kentucky is on the southern and south-eastern border of Southern Illinois.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.38.133.55 (talk) 19:10, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Geographic error in article 

message: The opening section contains the following sentence: 
:In the 1810s settlers began arriving from Kentucky; Illinois achieved statehood in 1818
This makes it seem as if Illinois was a Kentucky colony.  I'm not actually doubting this statement, I just am not familiar with a heavy (albeit, logical) wave from Kentucky (though I remember about the Lincolns coming, via Indiana).  Can someone lend a citation for this? HuskyHuskie (talk) 05:32, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kentucky Connection 

message: There seems to be no mention of Springfield becoming the capital in the history section. 75.41.110.200 (talk) 23:25, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: There are more deficiencies with this article than I have hairs on my head (not that that's saying much), but you've pointed out a particularly glaring one.  I've patched it up, but it could be better. HuskyHuskie (talk) 23:44, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Springfield 

message: The article contains the following two statements:
*The northeastern border of Illinois is Lake Michigan. 
*Illinois also borders Michigan, but only via a water boundary in Lake Michigan.
However, these cannot both be true, unless Michigan's territory within Lake Michigan reaches all the way across the lake to the Chicago beaches (as Kentucky's territory reaches across the Ohio).  I'm 99% certain that this is not the case, so the Lake Michigan shoreline is not actually the "border" of Illinois, and I will correct it accordingly. HuskyHuskie (talk) 08:45, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Northeast border 

message: Anyone questioning this edit is invited to read the discussion at Talk:Metro Lakeland.  Looks like some real estate people are trying to use Wikipedia to help them with their marketing. HuskyHuskie (talk) 04:58, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Population centers in Southern Illinois 

message: I found this material to be interesting and earnest, but I think it needs some sources and then perhaps a bit of a less-informal tone.  Reverting for now, look forward to seeing the new entry. HuskyHuskie (talk) 04:26, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Paxton section 

message: It should be noted a few counties in Illinois do  not observe Daylight Savings Time.68.231.184.217 (talk) 15:07, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Incorrect. All of Illinois uses the same time, year round. HkCaGu (talk) 15:19, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Daylight Savings? 

message: This edit came with the following edit summaryvery debatable that "rest of state has rural or small town character;" this ignores Peoria, Metro East St Louis, quad cities, and many other significatn urban areas far from ChicagoI think I understand the good editor's thinking here, but a more careful reading shows that this is not what the previous version said at all.  It previously read, 
with 65% of its residents concentrated in the Chicago metropolitan area, most of the state has either a rural or a small-town character.This is very different than the statement in the edit summary, which claimed that the edit spoke of "the rest of the state.  I assume, of course, that the edit summary's inaccurate wording was unintentional, and I shall now revert to the perfectly accurate previous wording. I would also be happy to discuss further. HuskyHuskie (talk) 19:40, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: There is little difference between "much of the state" and "the rest of the state." Either way, the suggestion is that most of Illinois is not urban in "character." Illinois has the 12th highest population density among US states, and, more than that, consider this map of population density of the US by county.  As I mentioned in the edit summary, there are many densely populated urban areas outside of Chicago, and most of the population of Illinois outside Chicago is cities like in Decatur, Danville, Peoria, East Peoria, East St. Louis, Granite City, Washington Park, Swansea, Centralia, Springfield, Rockford, McChesney Park, Rock Island, Moline, Streator, Rock Falls, Sterling, and other urban areas far west or south of I-294. "Most of the state has either a rural or a small-town character" is a rather subjective description of the state that is unsupported by any documentary evidence. Only 1,679,801 people out of 12,830,632, or 13% of the population of the state was considered "rural" versus "urban" in 2010. Even subtracting 8 or 9 million people in the Chicagoland area, this means the majority of the population is living in an urban environment, and likely experiencing and/or expressing an "urban character." I agree that much of the land area of the state is agricultural, and some counties are not densely populated, but the term "character" is not widely used in demography and is rarely or ever quantified. Or is it? I welcome you to find a good reference that shows that the description "most of the state has either a rural or a small-town character" is "perfectly accurate" and return the sentence in question to the article. Or perhaps there is some more suitable demographic metric you are seeking. Thanks for your thoughts and best regards, Wachholder (talk) 05:47, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for your well-considered reply.  As I digest (my vulgarism for mull) your thoughts, I wonder if terminology is not separating us.  Let me ask you one quick terminology-related question.  Would you consider Creston, Illinois (which I choose for reasons of personal experience) to be a "small town"? HuskyHuskie (talk) 13:56, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

text: I respectfully disagree.  If you mean, do we downstaters refer to ourselves first and foremost as "downstaters"?  Of course not.  I grew up in a town in Northern Illinois with less than 10,000 people, and at age 24 moved to Central Illinois.  In the town where I grew up, our demonym of choice was always been "townian", and in my adopted town we are "townites", the difference being which suffix works better with the respective town name.  But in both places, whenever discussing the divide (and it is a great divide, no doubt) between those of us from outside the collar counties and those from within, everyone I know recognizes that the term for where we live is "Downstate".  I don't know of anyone from downstate who calls themselves a "downstater", but our small towns are proudly located "downstate".  And it's something I point out to people from around the country who ignorantly assume that, as an Illinoisian, I am somehow connected to Chicago.  I am proud to identify myself as being from "Downstate".  HuskyHuskie (talk) 04:52, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Downstate character 

message: This sentence: 
:As the "most average state", Illinois has long had a reputation as a bellwether both in social and cultural terms and politics. 
was recently changed to 
:As the "face of the nation", Illinois has long had a reputation as a bellwether both in social and cultural terms and politics. 
I don't know what is worse--the fact that
#The source says nothing about Illinois being the "face of the nation", or 
#The fact that this edit completely misses the point of the phrase, namely, that Illinois is a microcosm of the state.
Of course, I'm sure there was no intent to deceive or be inaccurate, but I wanted to explain it in case someone thought I was arguing a petty point. HuskyHuskie (talk) 03:00, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Average vs. Face 

message: Recently, a user added a picture of Ronald Reagan under Section 10 (Politics) and another user reverted because Reagan was not related to politics of the state (citing WP:DUE).  Is anyone interested in discussing the inclusion of Reagan's photo under Subsection 10.3 (US Presidents from Illinois)? UnbelievableError (talk) 02:50, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: After looking at a few other articles of US states to see how they handle prominent national politicians, I tend to agree with you.  For instance, Kentucky does not prominently feature President Lincoln.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by UnbelievableError (talk • contribs) 00:59, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture of Ronald Reagan 

message: Should there be a section that lists the Illinois Air National Guard, Illinois Army National Guard, and Illinois Naval Militia as the military of the state of Illinois? 76.16.49.113 (talk) 21:59, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think that I have seen similar sections in other state articles. Do you have any precedents for this? - UnbelievableError (talk) 05:00, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not aware of any precedents; however, some U.S. states do have State Defense Forces in addition to the National Guard. The question is should articles about U.S. states provide information about thier militaries; and if so, should this article establish a new precedent? 143.43.29.136 (talk) 23:10, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: As I understand the way the question is restated, I am against this article being the new precedent. - UnbelievableError (talk) 04:56, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I can't support this Unbelievable Error. HuskyHuskie (talk) 03:49, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Not sure how to read this response. Did you just agree that no new precedent should be set here or did you agree, as suggested by 143.43 IP that the precedent should be set here? - UnbelievableError (talk) 04:24, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

text: Are you opposed to this article setting any precedent or only this precedent, in particular? 76.16.49.113 (talk) 21:45, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Illinois Military 

message: Currently, the article contains this sentence:
:Chicago is a cosmopolitan city, densely populated, industrialized, the transportation hub of the nation, and settled by a wide variety of ethnic groups with a population of 9.8 million people.
Of course, this is not true; I guess it refers to the metro area.  Will correct. HuskyHuskie (talk) 22:11, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minor population error 

message: Looking at the edits, one by one:
First edit
:*It is a very populous state.  This usage, using "very", sounds "very" much like a young person wrote it.  Not incorrect, but inferior to the previous verbiage (which was also more neutral, if you can believe it).
:*Chicago, the world's fourth-largest GDP producing city. Might be true, but should be sourced.  Suspiciously, it looks like it may be a "very" old piece of trivia, given its use of "GDP", which was phased out in favor of "GNP" by most authorities over two decades ago.
:*Among the 50 states, Illinois has been very strong on the national political scene throughout its history. Looks like WP:OR to me.
:*The first non-fully white President of the United States (Obama) came from Illinois, I'm just going to leave that one out there, and if anyone wants me to explain my objection, just ask.
:Entire edit reverted.
Second edit
:*The anon replaced Chicagoland, as this area is known locally, with the phrase, Chicagoland, as this area is commonly known.  This is WP:OR.  I don't doubt that it is commonly known locally as "Chicagoland" (after all, I'm the one who originally added the phrase in question to the article, but that hardly means it's a common phrase in St. Louis, Seattle, or St. Petersburg.
:Entire edit reverted.
Third edit
:*Nominal improvement by removal of redundant parenthetical comment.
:No revert.
Fourth edit
:*The anon changed the article from reading The property tax is the largest single tax in Illinois, and is the major source of tax revenue for local government taxing districts to reading The property tax is a major source of tax revenue for local government taxing districts.  I'm leaving the anon's edit in place, for this reason:  I know the anon's version constitutes a true statement.  Unfortunately, if the old version was verifiable, the old version would be better.  The trouble is that the sources are books, not online, so I can't easily verify them.  
:No revert.
Fifth edit
:*There's a lot here, but rather than go by it line by line (I'm getting tired of this shit, I'll just point out one poorly written sentence out of many that is prompting my revert: Today, Chicago and a majority of Cook County votes have long been strongly Democratic.  Enough said.
:Entire edit reverted.
I'm done. HuskyHuskie (talk) 03:10, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anon edits from July 10, 2012 

message: I have been reading about unreported debts and national/federal pension debts and Illinois is one of the worst offenders.  I thought it valuable info to add that info, especially since it seemed relevant and timely.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by StickerMug (talk • contribs) 21:48, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Debt Burden Addition in the Economy Section 

message: I strongly object to the bulk of this edit.  While the removal of party labels does improve the readability (and lessens the POV) of the section, the swapping of James Thompson and Paul Simon is not acceptable, and could possibly be seen as a partisan (read: POV) edit.
Paul Simon was a fine man, certainly a human being with whom I would rather have lunch than "Big Jim" Thompson (full disclosure:  I actually did have lunch with Thompson once, before he was governor).  But was Paul Simon a "reformer"?  He was arguably the most honest and ethical Illinois politician of the 20th century, but his reform efforts were early on in his career as a journalist.  Yes, he gained his fame as a reform-minded newspaperman, but did he do anything while holding political office to advance "reform"?  If so, I don't remember it.  In fact, as I recall, Simon was hand-picked by Richard J. in the 1972 Democratic gubernatorial primary?  For those from outside Illinois, the Daley machine was not known for it's promotion of reform candidates.
Thompson, on the other hand, while ultimately he became the poster boy for political stand-pat-ness during his 3 1/2* terms, was a major force for anti-corruption as a US Attorney.  Thompson put both Republicans and Democrats in jail--quite a few of them.  His credibility as a reformer is undeniably as strong, and arguably much stronger than that of Senator Simon. HuskyHuskie (talk) 04:13, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Corruption section 

message: I added lots of content to the Illinois#Languages section, and then forked it off as a separate article, Languages of Illinois.  Languages of Texas is the only other state-level language article that I could find.  The new article has sections on the official status of English, Illinois's dialects of American English, other languages spoken today, and a (for now) very brief summary of languages spoken in Illinois's past (indigenous languages and French).  I copied the lead section of the new article and into the Languages section in this article.  I also kept the "Languages other than English" chart, to be consistent with other U.S. state articles. Per the to-do list item on this talk page ("minimize the lists"), I deleted the chart; now it is only found in the new article. Fishal (talk) 15:08, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Language fork 

message: "Mormons had founded a utopian city called Nauvoo"
They founded a city, perhaps with the intensions to be utopian, but nothing seem to suggest that they did.
"Soon afterward, the Mormons' new leadership led the group out of Illinois in a mass exodus to present-day Utah;"
An exodus is always "mass".
This will be changed if nobody objects. EeriQuery (talk) 16:10, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  19th century Mormon section

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: On February 21 president Obamba sold Maine for 4.8 Million dollars, I have updated this map to include Maine to no longer be there. Kindest regards -liam.
2601:244:4602:4B53:E1AE:AB74:B36E:48AA (talk) 22:11, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. EvergreenFir (talk) Please  01:32, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 21 February 2016 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Illinois. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Illinois. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Latino is incorrect use of the word. Latin American suits better. America or The Americas is the name of the continent, America is divided culturally in two, Latin America and Anglo America, or if you want to divide it geographically the use North America and South America.
Latino is offensive, it rips off the right of Latin Americans to be called like that, Latin Americans.
Gsus83 (talk) 03:49, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 24 July 2016 

message: hello. just asking could somebody write something about the Luxembourgish settlers in Illinois. 
Apparentley Illinois has the highest percentage of residents of Luxembourgish ancestry of any state according to the 2000 census.
thank you.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.207.204.43 (talk) 17:11, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Luxembourg-Americans in Illinois  

message: Illinois became a state on December 3, 1818 and became the twenty-first state added to the United States Of America.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.229.156.62 (talk) 21:07, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  When Illinois beacame a state 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: St. Clair should be a Dem county (currently red) and Madison should be GOP (currently blue).  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:242:4200:6C66:BCEA:A1E9:7675:E1D3 (talk) 08:14, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  2016 election treemap incorrect data 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Dear Fellow Wikipedians... I'd like to slightly expand the section on demographics with a number of sources. Would it be OK to say "Illinois has led the nation in population loss for several years. The most common reasons for this are job loss, the highest property taxes in the nation, weather, unionism, crime, education, unemployment, and the state's budget stalemate. The state's residents say it sucks to live in Illinois, in which it was ranked number 1 in residents who desire to flee the state. Half of the population wants to leave. It is also reported to be the second most hated state in the U.S. after California. It has had a rate of population loss ranging from 1 person every 4.6 to 10 minutes. A study by United Van Lines has reported that it has been in yellow, meaning high outbound, since 1978. A couple who moved to North Carolina from Illinois created a website to help Illinoisans move out of their state. Michael Lucci, the vice president of the Illinois Policy Institute, said that working people and people who want jobs are fleeing the state. Due to its proximity in the Rust Belt, the state's unfriendly business climate makes it one of the top leaving destinations in the U.S. Illinois has lost residents to almost every other state in the nation." Here are some references to support what I'd like to add:
*https://downtrend.com/71superb/residents-say-it-sucks-to-live-in-illinois
*https://patch.com/illinois/tinleypark/illinoisans-are-no-1-in-wanting-to-get-out-of-illinois
*http://chicagoist.com/2012/02/27/everybody_hates_illinois_but_not_as.php
*http://www.getoutofillinois.com/
*https://www.unitedvanlines.com/contact-united/news/movers-study-2016
*https://www.illinoispolicy.org/press-releases/illinois-losing-residents-at-a-rate-of-1-person-every-10-minutes-new-report-from-il-policy-institute/
I'm posting here because other editors might feel this is too much detail. Comments welcome please! Colman2000 (talk) 18:59, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Demographics section 

message: Im certain most Quad Citians would say they are Central Illinoisans. If you aren't a part of the Chicago metro area, its generally considered offensive to be called anything close to Chicago.
The division of Illinois into three "geographic areas", Northern, Central, and Southern is completely arbitrary and there is no general agreement on the boundaries between those "geographic areas". Southern Illinois is somewhat geologically and culturally distinct, but there are differing opinions as to where the line between Central and Southern Illinois lies. The line between Northern and Central Illinois is completely subjective unless "Northern Illinois" is defined as being the Chicago metropolitan area.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.213.4.64 (talk) 19:52, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Quad Cities 

message: Information to be added or removed: I propose adding the below text in quotes to the "primary and secondary schools" section of the page:
"Illinois ranked 15th in the nation for educational performance, according to Education Week’s Quality Counts 2018 report. It earned an overall score of 78.2 out of 100 points and a grade of C-plus. By comparison, the nation received a score of 75.2 or a C.
Illinois posted a B-minus in the Chance-for-Success category, ranking 24th on factors that contribute to a person’s success both within and outside the K-12 education system. Illinois received a mark of B-minus and finished 15th for School Finance. It ranked 16th with a grade of C on the K-12 Achievement Index." 
Explanation of issue: I believe this text would enhance the page, adding information on the quality of the state's K-12 education which is not currently available on the page. I'm asking your consideration because I work for Education Week. I apologize if I've misformatted this or left out information you need to make a decision - I'm rather new at this.
References supporting change: this is the source I'd cite: 
Csmithepe (talk) 17:27, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some proposed changes 

message: *Please provide a source unconnected to Education Week for this claim.
Regards,  Spintendo  21:06, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Reply 11-FEB-2019

message: An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Illinios. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so.  Steel1943 (talk) 22:23, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Illinios" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Illinoid. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so.  Steel1943 (talk) 22:31, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Illinoid" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Illionis. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so.  Steel1943 (talk) 22:32, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Illionis" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]]