Talk:Coalition casualties in Afghanistan

message: Maybe we can start a dicussion also about the overall structure of this article?
Much regards, Rob van Doorn 20:15, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chapters, structure, notes to this article 

message: Please people (particularly American people), if you're going to type out where an American casualty was from, don't use abbreviations for U.S states. Do North Carolina, not N.C, or Alabama, not Ala. Most people from outside of the US wouldn't know what 'N.C' or 'S.D' or whatever stood for. Ebglider91 (talk) 03:04, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Abbreviations

message: OK, I have put in for third party help on this: for about two months, there's been a constant edit war over these figures. Whenever a casualty is announced, I add it to the figures available. However, another editor only wants to put the figures up when they are listed on an external web page, such as the ones under "External Links". For instance, today, an American soldier was killed by a bomb in Afghanistan. I added it to the current figures. However, this other editor will likely revert the page and say we should only add the death once the DoD casualty page has updated. Those pages take days to update, and when they do, they end up validating my figures anyway. I have tried to explain this, but to no avail.
Also, he does not seem to believe there have been 17 German deaths in Afghanistan, though I have provided evidence that there, in fact, have been 17 deaths. Any outside opinions/help on these sticking points would be appreciated.PBP 13:40, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, that this is probably not the answer you prefer, but I think it would be best to get such running totals from an external source. That way they are more easily verifiable. In other words, I disagree with PBP. I have no comment on the German deaths, other than evidence is evidence. Maurreen (talk) 07:53, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dispute 

message: The April 22, 2006, incident included the names of just two of the four killed:  (Bombardier Myles Mansell of the 5th British Columbia Field Regiment RCA, and Lt. William Turner of Land Force Western Area Headquarters). I removed this bit, as it didn't seem NPOV or fair to name only half of the men. I added an internal link -- [| here ] -- that includes the other names. I personally have no big problem listing all four, but I think we should be consistent.  PLEASE PLEASE note that Wikipedia includes individual entries on many of these folks, so if we include the names we ought to verify whether there are any internal entries.--Thatnewguy 22:53, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question of names 

message: The May 5 Italian attack may have "only" killed two and wounded four. I can't find a reference that says it was three, though I'm certainly aware that one of the wounded could have died later, creating the stated three-three number. This needs a cite. --Thatnewguy 23:07, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Numbers debate 

message: Ugh!! This artical leaves a bad taste...needs a rewrite. 
Motorfix 14:41, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Rewrite

message: Steve Reich (Army) redirects here, but I see no reference to him in the article. What's up with that? Omphaloscope talk 16:26, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Steve Reich (Army)]] redirects here &mdash; why? 

message: Surprised nobody's included him here.  Will do later, if nobody else gets around to it. Soren.harward 22:57, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Pat Tillman]] 

message: Please provide assiatance to resolve the currenty edit war.Motorfix 16:26, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Is there a particular source or sources that differentiates between casualties within Afghanistan and casualties occurring outside country? In short, what refrence is your count based on? Mike McGregor (Can) 07:05, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Mike, If you take a quick look through the discussions above, especially the "DISPUTE" discussion from 2005, there was a consensus to use the Defense Department list. There is only one user who keeps changing it. If you are asking what source the defense department uses to keep track, I have not the slightest clue.Motorfix 16:14, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: oh, ok. I was confused. I thought that part of your comment was a response from the other fellow (who never signs his comments) and the paragraph below was your entire comment... Now I gets it! Mike McGregor (Can) 18:24, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Request for Comment

message: http://www.jihadunspun.com/newsarchive/
http://www.jihadunspun.com/articles/08212002-Casualty.Report/casualty02.html
From October 21, 2001, Jihad Unspun staff and researchers began tracking military casualties in the US war on “terrorism” campaign in Afghanistan from approximately 40 international news sources daily. Although limited information on the extent of casualties suffered in Afghanistan by US and Coalition troops has appeared in main stream North American press, this has not been the case in other parts of the globe. This report documents our research.
Source material has been gathered from mainstream and uncensored news sources. Only those reports that could be verified in more than one source are included here. When casualties or kills were listed as “several soldiers wounded” they were excluded. As the counts come only from those that actually found there way into the press, we expect the actually figures to be as much as three times higher that those listed here. 
What this report clearly shows is the censorship of the American media and the reports issued by the Pentagon. Rena Golden, the executive vice-president and general manager of CNN International said at a Newsworld conference is Asia that US news organizations “censored” their coverage of the US campaign in Afghanistan in order to be in step with public opinion in the wake of the September 11 terrorist attacks was shaped by the level of public support that existed for US action. 
This report is not to be misconstrued as an official casualty count as it shows only figures reported in the 40 daily news sources Jihad Unspun monitors however it should be noted that the totals concluded here are significantly higher than those presented by the media within North America. Although we can not conclude with 100% accuracy the validity of any news item, this report begins to show a broader picture of casualties as reported throughout the globe and helps us to put into perspective the human cost of this war.
The US & Coalition Casualties Report has been independently audited by TREK Technologies Inc., a third party market research firm, to add further validity to this work. 
It should be noted that this research began after Operation Enduring Freedom in the mountains of Afghanistan and therefore is not a complete accounting from the beginning of the Afghan invasion.
In our first limited distribution of this report a few weeks ago, we received many inquiries from American citizens who questioned how these deaths could be hidden from the public. As one General said “the first casualty of war is the truth” and casualties have been kept from the public in every war since WW1. How? Missing In Action. By the end of the Vietnam war there where some 70,000 MIA’s, with only a small portion of those accounted for to this day. We owe our understanding of the human cost of Vietnam to the families of soldiers who pressed for the declassification of documents and finally, years later, at least a portion of the truth was exposed. This is standard war time procedure that lawmakers consider to be in the best interest of national security.
This conclusion that can be drawn from this report is that the deaths of both US and Coalition soldiers are significantly higher than the public is being made aware of and therefore the willingness to continue the America war effort to new theatres such as Iraq is being orchestrated under false pretenses.
For more information contact:
report@jihadunspun.net
http://www.jihadunspun.com/articles/08212002-Casualty.Report/casualty02.html
This is also a good source: http://icasualties.org/oef/ Hudicourt 17:33, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other Sources 

message: I dont see the sense of redirecting to this page when the guy is not mentioned in the article. Panth 23:33, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Steve Reich

message: I began working on a minor spelling mistake which led to the discovery that much of the material under "Specific Incidents" in 2008 has been directly cut-and-pasted from the US Military news releases. I don't believe this is appropriate or that it meets Wikipedia's standards. However, I a don't have hours to check the whole thing over right now. Perhaps the original contributor of these bits could correct this issue? --CokeBear (talk) 18:22, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Plagiarism

message: There was no mention of Coalition casualties on the War in Afghanistan (2001–present) page, other than the info box, so a small section has been added halfway down. If anyone is updating numbers, could they update that page as well please? Thanks Chwyatt (talk) 08:47, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Updates

message: OK listen up the number given for the US military casualties here is not right. The figure doesn't include those killed in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Qatar who were killed while supporting the mission in Afghanistan, before the Iraq invasion. So the number should be changed. icasualties.org states that 543 soldiers have been killed in Enduring Freedom up to date. The operation can be bropken down into four different operations. OEF - Afghanistan, OEF - Phillipines, OEF - Horn of Africa and OEF - Guantanamo bay. The Phillipines part of the operation has had 15 fatalities, the Africa part 17 and Guantanamo bay 5. So 543 - (15+17+5) = 516. Also the icasualties.org number doesn't include the civilian employee of the DoD that was killed by hostile fire. I have found out that the person in question was the contractor killed in Kuwait in January 2003. So the final number should be 517. Those that were killed before the Iraq invasion in Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Bahrain were killed while supporting logistical operations in Afghanistan, just like they are now primaraly supporting operations in Iraq. So those deaths should be included! I will make the changes and please don't revert before giving a proper rational why does fatalities shouldn't be included. I have removed those killed in Africa, Cuba and the Far East because yest they don't belong on this list but those from Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Bahrain do. If you want to stick to the DoD definition of "In and around Afghanistan" then it looks like that less have been killed during OEF in contrast to the actual number and this is missleading. Top Gun
Oh yes updating the number of US killed now from 517 to 518, another one died today, here is the reference http://www.boston.com/news/world/asia/articles/2008/07/08/1_nato_soldier_killed_in_afghan_blast/.Top Gun
:This subject has come up a few times on this page. I'd encourage you to familiarise yourself with the previous discussions if you haven't already and maybe contact the editors involved. I don't feel strongly either way, but the consensus seems to have settled on including only in-country deaths. Mike McGregor (Can) (talk) 17:47, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Update on US casualites

message: Someone has recently been editing down the Canadian casualty count by one.  For instance, as of this note, DND, CBC, and iCasualties.org all agree that there have been 93 casualties, but once again someone has reduced it by one.  Anyway, if someone can shed some light on this or if we can just agree to stick to the iCasualties.org number, that would be great.  andrewpullin 02:27 22 August 2008 (UTC)
:There was one death at a support base in the Persian Gulf which is usually included with most canadian media reports. My understanding is that this article only deals with fatalities within Afghanistan. That my be the source of the discrepancy. Mike McGregor (Can) (talk) 00:51, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Canadian Casualty Discrepancy

message: According to the article (as of my addition of two casualties on 4. December) 20 Danish casualties in Afghanistan since 2002 are listed, 17 of these with names. Of these 10 has been in 2008. But according to the Danish national broadcast service (DR) about the same casualties it only makes 18 casualtes and only nine in 2008 (this article - sorry but it's only in Danish). So either the list here on Wikipedia is wrong (i hope we're not having some false entries) or DR is wrong. Does anybody have the possibility to review and confirm the list? --Hebster (talk) 20:19, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: THC:DR is using the official defence fatality list and in doing so disregarding non-combat casualties such as an accident and a suicide.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.143.196.89 (talk) 00:14, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If anybody should now which persons on the list is disregarded, shouldn't we then flag them in some sort (i.e. a note) so other people also will now why Wikipedia has a different listing? --Hebster (talk) 20:30, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: THC:I don't see the need, but if you insist there's the information you'll need:
Warrant officer Jens Mathias Petersen - died on the 13th March, 2008  due to over-exertion during training. 
The unnamed sergeant, whom died on the 3th December, 2004 committed suicide. 
Both is not listed on the official fatality list.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.143.196.89 (talk) 01:27, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Number of Danish casualties

message: I have just read throught the comments.. The section Details, the British, Canadians and Germans all have there own seperate pages which highlights the individuals killed in Afghanistan. Should not the Americans also have there own page at US Forces casualties in Afghanistan since 2001 ??  This would reduce the length of this article. It would allow substantial references to be included. Currently, there are only 15 notes but 554 cites (not included in the notes) ..  COMMENTS? Jez t e C 23:50, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  seperate page for US Casaulties in Afghanistan?? 

message: I think in the list:
Coalition casualties · Afghan forces casualties · Civilian casualties · Aircraft losses
is certainly an entry missing for the number of deaths of the enemy.
As far as I know NATO doesn't keep official records, but there are websites which try to estimate the number of terrorists killed based on news reports, like http://terroristdeathwatch.com/  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.55.129.109 (talk) 01:36, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing terrorist death count 

message: Hello, the Afghan army is part of the coalition, they fight side by side with NATO troops against the Taliban. Are there no casualty figures for Afghans? 78.105.234.140 (talk) 12:50, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: This is meant to be just about the international forces which are part of the coalition. There is this article List of Afghan security forces fatality reports in Afghanistan but im not sure how accurate or up to date it is kept. BritishWatcher (talk) 12:54, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Afghan casualities? 

message: I just noticed that the total for US casualties took a huge jump in this edit. can any one confirm or correct the number? Mike McGregor (Can) (talk) 23:10, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That was added by an IP sock of User:Top Gun, so can't be taken at face value. I've just reverted the edit and blocked the IP account. Nick-D (talk) 08:05, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jump in the U.S. number 

message: Shouldn't Pakistani casualties be included? Pakistan is part of the coalition, and can be considered 'international'?
VR talk 19:13, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pakistani casualties 

message: do we know how many civilians have died over there? thanks. n-dimensional §кakkl€  05:10, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  hey  

message: 1) THE TOTAL IS WRONG. 
2) FRENCH CASUALTIES ARE NOW 39 (01/13/2010)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Maxloupio (talk • contribs) 13:50, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  WRONG  TOTAL  

message: As my english is poor so please forgive me.I tell you in a huge puzzle language.
In the article, US caaualties, 5 CIA and 2 Blckwater agents killed in Camp Chapman incident.
As in the US caualty article.Casualties is according to icaualties.And icaualties doesnt add those 2 blackwater in US caualties data.Icaualties add 5 CIA agenst killed in that incident.
http://icasualties.org/OEF/Fatalities.aspx
So as in the article "Of the American deaths, more than 700 have died in hostile action. Included in these numbers are 9 CIA operatives that were killed in Afghanistan.According to icasualties.org, 898 US soldiers killed in Afghanistan."
If we write that 11 CIA agenst killed in Afghanistan and 7 killed in that incident.Then US caualties become 702 and the refrence of icaualty is wrong because according to icasualty 700 US soldiers killed as hostile fire.
Maybe you understand what i want to say.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Mujahid1947 (talk • contribs) 
:See also 5 CIA agents and 2 Blackwater agents killed in Camp Chapman incident.  Cs32en Talk to me  15:00, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  5 CIA agents and 2 Blackwater agents killed in Camp Chapman incident 

message: In regards to Wikipedia not being a WP:Memorial to list all the names and details of the dead. There is also the external link that goes into the requisite details, a simple external link would do here. the encyclopaedic content is the info on the losses and the effects, not the memorializing of rank, age, name, etc.Lihaas (talk) 14:48, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Memorial 

message: Please update link for Casualty Monitor to:
http://www.casualty-monitor.org/p/british-casualties-in-afghanistan.html
Thanks!
Readknowwrite (talk) 20:05, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Done Thanks.  The link you provided is more specific than the previous link, which was to the site's homepage.  Adrian J. Hunter(talk•contribs) 06:14, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request from Readknowwrite, 26 June 2010 

message: "Of the 512 foreign soldiers killed in 2009, 448 were killed in action. 280 of those were killed by IEDs."
We're all foreign to people outside our country. I assume this means non-US troops. If so, then I shall change it (unless someone gets there first).  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Psychokinetic (talk • contribs) 06:33, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  What's a foreigner? 

message: As you can see I have edited it to the correct number of Australian Deaths and have corrected the total deaths in the box and the total deaths in the first section of the article. I think someone already added sources for me because I was not able to do so when I was on my iPad and forgot to do it later.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.241.225.125 (talk) 06:13, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  View History 3rd July 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Added archive https://archive.is/20130127211713/http://www.lithuaniatribune.com/2010/09/23/two-lithuanian-solders-injured-in-afghanistan/ to http://www.lithuaniatribune.com/2010/09/23/two-lithuanian-solders-injured-in-afghanistan/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110518041458/http://afghanistannewscenter.com/news/2003/january/jan302003.html to http://www.afghanistannewscenter.com/news/2003/january/jan302003.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 12:02, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Coalition casualties in Afghanistan. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added  tag to http://www.eupol-afg.eu/?q=node%2F411
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140422174013/http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/world/2014-03/31/c_133225327.htm to http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/world/2014-03/31/c_133225327.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120329011623/http://www.fuu.sk/2011/05/92744-v-afganistane-sa-postrelili-dvaja-slovenski-vojaci/ to http://www.fuu.sk/2011/05/92744-v-afganistane-sa-postrelili-dvaja-slovenski-vojaci/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070927212258/http://www.thinkspain.com/news-spain/13153 to http://www.thinkspain.com/news-spain/13153
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 17:41, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified