Talk:Somerset and Dorset Joint Railway/Archive 1

message: I have taken John's advice and merged my pre-1875 text into this page. There's still a lot to do.
I am having trouble getting the thumbnails of the big system maps to work; can anyone help me please?
Next steps so far as I can see are
* A lot more about locomotive power -- this is not my strong area -- can anyone help
* more recent trains services
* historical development 1875 to the end
I think the final years needs to be handled carefully; people are fond of agonising about how awful it was. Of course it was, but I think this does not need to be overstated. Better to accentuate the positive.  Afterbrunel 19:40, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What was positive about it? Glastonbury was able to build a bypass in the 1990s on part of the trackbed, anything else? - I forgot Cellophane built on part of it as well and we got a cycle track.Pyrotec 20:10, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Well I agree with all that, but I thought you were talking about the final years and the closure. Once when it became part of Western Region the old GWR management set about dismantling it.Pyrotec 13:51, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Mergers

message: After Closures, should we add a section on the restoration of the line?  It has been going on for some fifteen years now, and as such, makes it a positive part of the history of the S&D.  David Bailey 18:44, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Restoration

message: The diagram I have placed on this page would be improved by a BS4 template but until one is available this solution puts it into BS3. Anyone who can improve it is welcome as per usual practice. Britmax 21:56, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've created a Masbury railway station article of sorts. Redlinks just mean the article hasn't been written yet. In many cases, railway station articles link at present to the town (or village) rather than to a separate article: in the case of Masbury, there isn't really a village, so the station article is probably the sensible one to have.  Johnlp 20:38, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I see, thanks. Well, I agree that if you click on Masbury on the line-of-route map, it ought to open your Masbury railway station page -- I think that would be logical even if there was someone else's Masbury Village page. Having a clickable link that goes nowhere is surely the worst of all worlds. If you don't object I'll edit the link to go to your page.  Afterbrunel 08:53, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Done. Johnlp 20:20, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Nice picture; that's how I remember it. The view is facing Bristol, and the S&D station is off the picture to the right. Burnham is  to the left. The curving track connecting the two is a shunting connection: you couldn't run through from Taunton to Burnham, so I would say that it wasn't a "route" -- in other words the S&D and the Bristol - Taunton line crossed on the flat.  Afterbrunel 19:19, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If we did put this in as a straight crossing, then we'd also have to change the diagram to a BS4... and that would give us the ability to add more details to other sections of the line.  The OS maps I'm referring to are on Old Maps.  David Bailey 19:46, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Change made.  I also added the bridge over the GWR line in Bath and the bridge under the East Somerset Railway in Shepton Mallet.  David Bailey 20:48, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Under -- so it was! Whenever I drive through Shepton Mallet I always look up at the high S&D viaduct from the A37 (Kilver Street Hill) and it never occurred to me that the S&D could go under the ESR. Afterbrunel 07:10, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I know... it took me by surprise as well.  But there it was, on the OS maps going under! :-) David Bailey 09:46, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

text: P.S. The marker I have in mind to add to the map can be seen on my user page but in case I forget and delete it to sandbox further work it would be. Tell me what you think. Britmax 19:18, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have changed the symbol for a crossing from  to .  David Bailey 20:32, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I think this is fine and a nice link. Congratulations on the map: it's a real bonus. A couple of other points: your order for Shoscombe and Foxcote is correct, but Foxcote links awkwardly to a completely different place in Gloucestershire. Foxcote, by the way, was a signalbox at the end of a short colliery siding; there were other colliery sidings around Radstock, but they didn't have signalboxes. Is it possible to indicate that the S&D used (mostly) the Templecombe station on the Waterloo-Exeter LSWR mainline, and that there was a junction there (from the north)? (I also think there was a long disused link near Cole to the WS&WR line, but that may be memory playing tricks on me!). Johnlp 18:49, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Good stuff. Johnlp 22:01, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Maps and Diagrams

message: The S&D went over the Wilts Somerset & Weymouth at Cole, not under it. If someone could point me to the syntax for the map, I'll correct it.  Afterbrunel 09:43, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Johnlp 20:20, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Over or Under?

message: Highbridge station might be better indicated as a straight crossing if this photo is anything to go by.  Incidentally, the Ordinance Survey map lists the two original stations as "Highbridge Station (GWR)" and "Highbridge Junction Station (S&DJR)".  David Bailey 18:36, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice picture; that's how I remember it. The view is facing Bristol, and the S&D station is off the picture to the right. Burnham is  to the left. The curving track connecting the two is a shunting connection: you couldn't run through from Taunton to Burnham, so I would say that it wasn't a "route" -- in other words the S&D and the Bristol - Taunton line crossed on the flat.  Afterbrunel 19:19, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If we did put this in as a straight crossing, then we'd also have to change the diagram to a BS4... and that would give us the ability to add more details to other sections of the line.  The OS maps I'm referring to are on Old Maps.  David Bailey 19:46, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Change made.  I also added the bridge over the GWR line in Bath and the bridge under the East Somerset Railway in Shepton Mallet.  David Bailey 20:48, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Under -- so it was! Whenever I drive through Shepton Mallet I always look up at the high S&D viaduct from the A37 (Kilver Street Hill) and it never occurred to me that the S&D could go under the ESR. Afterbrunel 07:10, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I know... it took me by surprise as well.  But there it was, on the OS maps going under! :-) David Bailey 09:46, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Highbridge Stations

message: I'm seeking opinions on whether I should add the fact that the trackbed near Cock Mill Crossing, between Pylle and West Pennard stations, crosses the site of the Glastonbury Festival and functions as an internal road within the site. I think the fact that 100,000 people some years attend this makes it at least as notable as, say, Stourpaine and Durweston Halt. Input, though, would be welcome. My idea would be to link a simple note of the existence of the crossing to the diagram and put a short sentence in the article. Britmax 19:09, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: P.S. The marker I have in mind to add to the map can be seen on my user page but in case I forget and delete it to sandbox further work it would be. Tell me what you think. Britmax 19:18, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have changed the symbol for a crossing from  to .  David Bailey 20:32, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

text: I think this is fine and a nice link. Congratulations on the map: it's a real bonus. A couple of other points: your order for Shoscombe and Foxcote is correct, but Foxcote links awkwardly to a completely different place in Gloucestershire. Foxcote, by the way, was a signalbox at the end of a short colliery siding; there were other colliery sidings around Radstock, but they didn't have signalboxes. Is it possible to indicate that the S&D used (mostly) the Templecombe station on the Waterloo-Exeter LSWR mainline, and that there was a junction there (from the north)? (I also think there was a long disused link near Cole to the WS&WR line, but that may be memory playing tricks on me!). Johnlp 18:49, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Good stuff. Johnlp 22:01, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: S&DJR Crossing Glastonbury Festival Site

message: I've just been looking through the diagram and noticed that we aren't being consistent with our naming of lines and the pages we link off to.  Sometimes we link to lines with their current names (Heart of Wessex Line) and sometimes we use their original names (LSWR).  Should we state that the diagram represents a point in time just prior to the Beeching Axe, and then use line and station names from that time period?  David Bailey 21:58, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Connections to Other Lines and their Names

message: Thanks D Bailey for condensing the line diagram and the list of stations. There is still a little to do but I think this is now pretty close to a first class article. Pity we can't yet find som photos of trains on the main line though. Afterbrunel 19:50, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Well done

message: I see that these railways have no page in wikipedia, so the reference to them on this S&D page is all they get. I think that needs rectifying, surely?  Afterbrunel 18:23, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Somerset Central Railway and Dorset Central Railway

message: Thanks for the correction, Britmax. I was coming back to do that, honestly, but I was too tired that night :-)  Afterbrunel 07:54, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Evening Star

message: Here is a summary of what I think still needs to be done. I am not making any proprietorial claim to this page, but shucks, this is how I see it.
* I still don't think the first 20 lines or so are sexy enough for the anorak element -- it's a bit too academic.
* Some copyright free photos of S&D steam trains would be great. Ideas, anyone?
* Got to get the map thumbnails to work. Anyone know how to do this?
* Got to get the tables to display properly -- regular column widths etc
* I want to put a summary geographical map near the top, so that someone who doesn't know where Dorset is can get an idea. (If you think everyone knows where Dorset is, just watch any of the popular tv quizzes like Weakest Link to see what I mean.)
* I'd like to put the line diagram down with the list of stations -- they obviously fit together -- and add some opening and closing dates.
* The citations need to be amplified; poor old Robin Atthill did all the hard work and his book is submerged a bit. But there are some more citations to attend to.
* Ought to link to the Bath Green Park station page
* I'm still uneasy about all the dead station links. Every station has a link, but some of them aren't there when you click. I think this is counter-productive.
Afterbrunel 08:30, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Still to do 

message: This discussion has been vigorous, positive and useful, but I wonder if it is time to archive some of it. A newcomer to this page reading all this would be mightily confused by it, especially the cases where we say "Why don't we ..." and it has been done.
I think Wikipedia has an archiving facility; I don't know how that works for saving (and keeping visible) the stuff that is still under discussion, though ... ? Afterbrunel 15:23, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Time to Archive some of this discussion?

message: That's got the structure of the page more or less as I would like it. What do you think?  And the thumbnails are working at last.
Still to do:
* images: MUST get some images of the main line in action; any ideas, anyone?
* The text list of stations at the end, and the line diagram, duplicate one another, rather. Any ideas, anyone?
* I think the traction section is partly duplicated.
* Still don't know where Foxcote was in relation to Shoscombe & Single Hill Halt. I am fairly sure they didn't both exist at the same time, which makes it more difficult. 
* There were some other accidents; not sure if that will be information overload.
Afterbrunel 19:27, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Hooray

message: I am now certain that this signal box was south of Shoscombe & Single Hill Halt, and north of the later Writhlington signal box. If you go to streetmap.co.uk you can see the village of Foxcote, which is south of S&SHH. I am sure the signal box was somewhat south of that. 
The S&D website at http://www.sdjr.net/sd_radstock.html has evidently seen contemporary newspaper reports of the inquest and it quotes them as saying "an intermediate signalbox was opened at Foxcote about a mile from Radstock to serve the Braysdown colliery siding." This is closer to Radstock than Foxcote overbridge. The underbridge at GR 706 554 crosses Braysdown Road.
There's a lot of scrubby land south of the line just to the west of this, and it looks like mineral tippings to me (in Virtual Earth).
Frustratingly it isn't possible to see it on the on-line large scale old OS maps -- there's one for 1886 at 10,560 and there is a 1:2500 map too.
Afterbrunel 20:05, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Location of Foxcote