Talk:Modern Age of Comic Books

message: These are the ages that I hear about when I go to conventions around the nation:
*17XX - 188X - Stone Age
Early "comics" or books that would allow development of the comic book as we know it. Most comics from this era are lost forever.
*189X - 1937 - Platinum Age
I think this age starts with the first issue of The Yellow Kid comic book. Most comics from this era are lost forever. Detective Comics by DC Comics is the only series to survive and still be developed, printed, and sold today from this age.
*1938 - 195X - Golden Age
Starts in cover-date of June of 1938, with Superman's first appearance in Action Comics #1. Many titles started in this era are still developed, printed, and sold today from DC, Marvel, Archie and Gemstone. Most books published in this age are lost forever because of the war drives for paper during World War II.
*195X - 1975 - Silver Age
Most collectors agree that the Silver Age started with the price of comics going from $0.10 to $0.12, and size was slightly reduced, too. Most comics survive this era, and this era produced the most amount of on-going series from all major companies.
*1976 - 1991 - Bronze Age (unofficial)
Started with DC Comics' bullet logo, usually agreed to have ended when Image burst onto the scene, or sometimes Valiant, after their little Nintendo Comics phase.
*1992 - 2XXX - Modern Age (unofficial)
And we all know the problems with this age. Allow me to bullet-point:
*The Speculators
*Gimmick covers
*Price has gone up and up and up!
*The Rise and Fall of Manga in America
*Diamond Comic Distro.
*Books are too soap-opera-ry
*Graphic novels killed the monthly sales
*Stores going out of business because of lack of interest.
*Libraries carrying the books.
*Just a pure lack of interest to actually read adventures with the movies out there.
Debate all you all want, but it was in a few Overstreet price guides like this. Overstreet also acknowledges that the Modern Age of Comics started when DC Comics adopted the bullet logo (the 1980s DC logo). Now, I agree with an older post that this article is written, well, poorly. I mean, the sheer drama and events that took place, also daily and hourly, in comics from 1976 onward. 
Furthermore, manga is a direct result of the Modern Age of Comics, and needs to be addressed. Companies like Antarctic, Viz, Dark Horse, and even Marvel did anime. Marvel has, within their line, the Marvel Mangaverse. This article seems hasty and actual did very little to remind me of anything.
As for the "graphic" novels and trade paperbacks, which are also a direct result of Viz, Tokyopop, and a few other now-defunct manga companies publishing led to a misunderstanding by the product-buyers of major book retailers, and have since, with comics shops big and small, led to the death of the comic shop, along with Diamond being the illegally monopoly and God of the the current comic industry. Perhaps one can say that the Modern Age ended and the Diamond Age started when Diamond started selling comics for everybody in Late 1996, around the time of Marvel's Heroes Reborn and DC's Superman in a blue jumpsuit. Anyways, the graphic novels aren't selling, nor is the manga, according to stockholder data listed for Sears (who owns K-Mart, who owns Waldensbooks, who owns Borders) and Barnes & Nobles. Comics, and sci-fi in general, lost them hundreds of millions over the last few years, and they reported this recently, especially with the economic collapse that might be happening. I know a few Borders I visited in the LA area have cut their shelf-space for manga and comics to a few measly shelves in the sci-fi section.
Again, I must stress that this article needs to deal with the rise of Diamond, the pyramid scheme they force sellers to buy from them, with is $50,000 a year give or take, and how the comic industry is in rapid decline and falling apart at the seams, and how the comic book shops are all going out of business.
What I've just written is reality. If you can't believe this is happening in the Modern Age of Comics, then you're not actually into comics. Just type Diamond Comic Distributors suck into Google and see how many people and stores have been hurt by Diamond since 1996. In the Las Vegas area, here are stores that have been defunct recently: Dreamwell Comics, Kool Kollectibles, Woody's World, Comic Oasis, Dark Tower (has to move from location to location), and Gameworld. Alternative Reality and Cosmic Comics are is hard financial straits, and may not survive the year. Coffee4binky (talk) 22:54, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, that's what I think. The age that began in the mid-eighties (Dark Age, Iron Age, Modern Age or whatever) finished in the late-nineties/early-00s. Or are we suposed to call the Modern era the period from the mid-eighties to the end-of-times? This article began considering the Modern Age begining in the seventies, ignoring the Bronze Age, now I think we have a similar problem with the mid-eighties to late-nineties period. 88.24.224.60 12:05, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Re. 'the Diamond Age' and this sentence: "the Diamond Age of Comic Books (suggested by Scott McCloud, because of the new diversity found in the medium)": I'd have to look up an actual reference for this, but I was of the impression that the 'diamond' in 'the Diamond Age' actually refered to Diamond Comics, the distributors of practically all comic nowadays and was used to signify the shift in power from the publishers to the (sole) distributor (to the direct market). Demos99 13:26, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But the monopoly of Diamond Comics didn't begin until the mid nineties, I remember buying my comics using the Advance Comics of Capital in the early nineties before Diamond an his Previews became the only way to buy your books. So, if the modern age beging in mid-eigthies and the Diamond momopoly in mid-nineties, there's almost one decade of Modern Age that's not Diamond Age by this definition. 88.24.224.60 12:05, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

text: This is all good background, and there's no question this article has multiple problems. The big issue, though, is finding reliable-source citations for these claims. Surely, magazines such as Back Issue and Alter Ego, which together cover eras from the Silver Age on up, must have something to say about all this, to name just two reliable journalistic sources we could cite. Let's maybe start with finding a cite for the "Copper Age" (a term for which I have not  found widespread consensus, BTW) "clearly start[ing]" in either 1980 or 1981 with those two cases you mention. I'm taking your comments absolutely seriously and I am asking in all seriousness. --Tenebrae (talk) 22:42, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Just some points from a long-time comic collector. 

message: I feel it is.  Horror comic books are big business these days, for example, as are many other alternative genres besides just superheros.  There is one brief mention about horror comics, but even then it's in the context of Marvel's 70s entry into the genre.  There is no mention of IDW at all.  No mention of Dark Horse aside from it's position in the timeline.  And very little about Vertigo.  Of course superhero books still make up the mainstream of the market and should have more information about them.  But at the same time you can't talk about modern age of comics and not include the alternative genres.  if agreed I will try to add some more information.  --MateoP 03:21, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with all above. Article needs much work. --Tenebrae (talk) 23:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Article too DC/Marvel centric?

message: I've just created an article for the Bronze Age of Comic Books. Perhaps the information in this article dealing with the 1970s and early 80s can be moved there. Iron Ghost 04:30, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bronze Age 

message: It deals only with comics issues and characters and omits events in the backstage like "speculations", "variant covers", new comics companies, conventions, magazines. For instance the new fandom movement characterizes the Silver Age. Creator-owned series started in the Silver Age but became mainstream in the modern age. What about Cerebus, Strangers in Paradise and other long-going creator owned-series?
There is also a point. It's a bit too close to the present to state that the modern age is still continuing. There are already terms for current comics like neo-silver. This started with "1963", "Marvels" and Alan Moore's "Supreme". For instance "Infinite Crisis" (restoring pre-crisis continuity) could be the marker of a new age for DC. Because it's too close to know yet, I think we should not include events from before 2006 or even from before 2000 in this article. --Leocomix 17:44, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Problems with this article 

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BetacommandBot (talk) 21:22, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:New Mutants 087-01.jpg

message: I don't know much about citing sources at all, but couldn't this be used as a source?
http://scifipedia.scifi.com/index.php/Modern_Age_of_Comics
I mean, maybe not much of it, as it talks a lot about DC's continuity changes, but still for something I would think.  Spirit Stiff (talk) 01:08, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source? 

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thread_title: Image copyright problem with Image:Dark knight returns.jpg

message: This article needs the B-Class checklist filled in to remain a B-Class article for the Comics WikiProject.  If the checklist is not filled in by 7th August this article will be re-assessed as C-Class.  The checklist should be filled out referencing the guidance given at Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment/B-Class criteria. For further details please contact the Comics WikiProject.  Comics-awb (talk) 17:08, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: WikiProject Comics B-Class Assesment required

message: Gold: 1933-1955.
Silver: 1956-1972.
Bronze: 1973-1983.
Modern: 1984-present.
Let's say that GA went on for 22 years, SA went on for 16, & BA went on for 10. In the future, when Modern Age comics are too old to be considered Modern Age, will they be Brass, Iron, or Stone Age? & when is the cut-off line? The comics I read in the 90s were kid-stuff to what's out now, so have we already missed the mark?
Why are they going downhill in time when the Golden Age comics were so terrible & the Silver Age comics were embarrassing & loaded with propaganda? Shouldn't the Golden Age be the Stone Age of comics?
The Way I've heard it it's 
Gold 1938-1954
Silver 1954-1970
Bronze 1970-1986
Dark 1986-1996
Modern 1996-present. 
My theory is the current era will be called the "Post-Modern Age of Comics" in the future. Simply because Grant Morrison and other top writers out now love to inject all kinds of Post Modernism in their storylines.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.168.135.228 (talk) 09:04, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Future of Modern Age. 

message: The most commonly held view in modern fandom is that the Dark age covers 
from the publishing of Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns to D.C.'s 
"Kingdom Come" which openly attacked the direction that comes where going 
in at the time. The Modern age is more nostalgic for the Silver age.
Therefore I don't think that the Dark age page should redirect here.
I believe that it should be split.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.168.136.137 (talk) 04:52, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dark Age vs Modern Age 

message: As this B-Class article has yet to receive a review, it has been rated as C-Class. If you disagree and would like to request an assesment, please visit Wikipedia:WikiProject_Comics/Assessment#Requesting_an_assessment and list the article. Hiding T  15:01, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: C-Class rated for Comics Project

message: - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 00:40, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Future refs 

message: Seems like an obvious thing to have. --Helenalex (talk) 09:40, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You mean like American comic book? Or something else? (Emperor (talk) 19:32, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why is there not a one-page history of American comic books? 

message: The key issues lists almost exclusively Marvel comics, and only lists comics for the first appearance of some once-popular characters. No mention of trends, writers, artists, etc. Unless someone says why it shouldn't be deleted or fixes it, I suggest it be deleted. Luminifer (talk) 04:26, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: On WT:CMC I kicked around some ideas for improving the set of similar articles based on Silver Age of Comic Books after it reached GA. Basically the lists of key titles/issues and creators (and probably the timeline) should be removed - the lists are just opinion and a magnet for original research and the important ones should be included in the text in prose format that allows us to include context and sources. As on the Silver Age article it might be we can include a list of most in-demand issues if we can similarly source it. So yes I agree the list of comics should be deleted if someone can add a better and sourced list then they can do so in the future. Same goes with the creators, although I the Silver Age list was split off it is a poor article and should probably be deleted so we might as well be bold and skip the splitting altogether. (Emperor (talk) 15:21, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The creator section feels slightly more valid. One problem with the "key issues" section lies in its very fundamental reasoning. In USA the whole period seemed like a process where the sales of magazines declined and the market evolved to be oriented more into graphic novels and manga. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 22:10, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Key Issues section problems 

message: far too superhero centric there was  other stuff going on in comics 78.149.76.67 (talk) 18:30, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  super 

message: far too superhero centric there was  other stuff going on in comics 78.149.76.67 (talk) 18:30, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  super 

message: far too superhero centric there was  other stuff going on in comics 78.149.76.67 (talk) 18:30, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  super 

message: This article need somebody, somewhere, who may have worked or owned a comic book shop, to discuss the rapid decline of comics thanks to graphic novels/trade paperbacks, manga and anime, and Diamond. See what can be found starting here:
:http://www.niklbag.com/blog/post/Saving-Comic-Publishers-from-Themselves-the-Threat-of-the-Diamond-Distribution-Monopoly.aspx
Please note that this is one man's perspective, but it is a starting point. I'm suggesting this article needs to be re-written, then merged into one large article covering the history and overall of American Comic Books, instead of being four links deep or so from the regular comic book article.
Currently, in the Las Vegas, NV, area, I think only Alternate Reality Comics is the only shop making a profit and still in business. Since I don't live in Las Vegas, I wouldn't know if any other shops are still operating. I'm also unsure of Phoenix, Los Angeles, and San Diego areas as well. But a mere 16 years ago, comic shops were everywhere, then a mere decade ago, comic shops returned to be everywhere again, then pfft! Gone, thanks to Diamond's pyramid scam and a illegal monopoly.
Coffee5binky (talk) 14:15, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Comics as a medium still survive, even though the foundation seems shifting from comic books and superheroes into other areas. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 15:23, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Decline of Comics 

message: The most commonly held view in modern fandom is that the Dark age covers 
from the publishing of Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns to D.C.'s 
"Kingdom Come" which openly attacked the direction that comes where going 
in at the time. The Modern age is more nostalgic for the Silver age.
Therefore I don't think that the Dark age page should redirect here.
I believe that it should be split.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.168.136.137 (talk) 04:52, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed.  By my reckoning, the transition from Iron to Modern Age took place when Joe Quesada took the helm at Marvel (2000) and Dan Didio took over at DC (2002).  It's when DC started bringing back dead Silver Age heroes (starting with a Kryptonian Supergirl, then Hal Jordan as Green Lantern, and most recently Barry Allen as the Flash).  It's when we started getting chained crossover "ongoing epics" such as Avengers Disassembled -> House of M -> Civil War -> Dark Reign -> Age of Heroes and Graduation Day -> Identity Crisis -> Infinite Crisis -> 52 -> Final Crisis -> Blackest Night -> Brightest Day.  It's when DC and Marvel started tailoring their comics with an eye toward Trade Paperback rereleases.  Change was already in the air as early as 1995, with Zero Hour, Marvels, and Kingdom Come; but when Joe Q and Dan Didio took over their respective companies, the changes kicked into high gear.  --Dataweaver (talk) 03:58, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

text: Because all the above is either uncited personal opinion or it cites a wikia, which Wikipedia doesn't allow to be used as reference sources. --Tenebrae (talk) 00:29, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dark age!! 

message: I've made some edits today, giving my rationales in the edit summaries. The tag on this page is correct: It needs an enormous amount of research and writing work to approach being encyclopedic. This article is mostly original-research and POV claims, as far as I can see. --Tenebrae (talk) 23:16, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Today's edits

message: Like many others on this page, I'm not convinced the modern age is the best name for this period. It seems the Overstreet Price Guide is the only reference for it? Is this the best source available? In cultural and historical terms, the modern age (modernist period) covers most of the 20th century for visual arts and design. To an art theorist or historian, most comics, as a visual art, are modern. Certainly superhero comics, since there beginnings in the 30s, are modern.  The radical changes in the 80s, from Alan Moore for example, would from this perspective be post-modern. I think the use of modern in this article, as coined by Overstreet I assume, comes from a conflation of 'modern' with 'contemporary'. 
That said, I understand the naming is internal to the medium and corresponds to the gold/silver/etc nomeclature. But is 'modern' the best/only name we can find referenced? If so, and if this age really covers everything from the 80s or so the present day, then something like 'contemporary age of comics' could be a more appropriate and perhaps NPOV title. +|||||||||||||||||||||||||+ (talk) 04:07, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Nomenclature

message: This article is riddled with factual errors and reads more like a 9th grader's "anything you like" research project than a well-written and sourced wiki article should. I've corrected a couple errors here and there over the last little while, but someone with the time and inclination could do a lot more and vastly improve this page. 19:41, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Many Factual Errors

message: 75 Years of DC Comics is a huge art/history book published by Taschen. It lists The Dark Age as 1984-1998 and The Modern Age as 1998-2010. 
 Here's a book about comics called The Dark Age that appears to start with Watchmen and Dark Knight Returns (both 1986).
I think these (especially the first one) are good indications that there was such a thing as a Dark Age of comics (that has ended), and that this article should be split to reflect this. The only issue would be deciding on an end date, but that has been an issue regarding the beginning and end of most comic book eras.
Tomorrowboy (talk) 01:24, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources for Dark Age and Modern Age timelines

message: Erm… why is the lede written in past tense if this age lasts “until present day”? And wouldn’t it be better to say it’s ongoing or current or something? That wording kinda makes it sound like it’s ending tomorrow. —Frungi (talk) 07:09, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Verb tense and diction 

message: There's a discussion currently taking place at WP:NFCR#File:Watchmencovers.png regarding the use of this non-free image in the article. The concern is that the image is simply being used for identification and not as the subject of critical commentary per "Cover Art" in WP:NFCI, particularly WP:NFC#cite_note-2. All interested editors are welcome to participate in the discussion and provide further clarification as needed. Thanks in advance. - Marchjuly (talk) 14:16, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Non-free use of [[:File:Watchmencovers.png]] 

message: the new Wonder woman stamps from the USPS are 4 images, labelled Golden age, Silver age, Bronze age and Modern age. thats a very nice reference showing the terms usage.(mercurywoodrose)2602:304:CFD0:6350:709C:91B3:9EA8:5B0 (talk) 17:09, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: USPS

message: Needs a section on this and the impact it has on art styles and scatter-panel layouts.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.90.192.116 (talk) 02:56, 21 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use of wacom tablets and computers for illustration 

message: You've got the Dark Age from 1985-2000 and the Modern Age from 2000-present. Lumping together the Modern Age as being 35 years long (longer than every previous comic age) is weird.--98.235.178.140 (talk) 22:51, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Split article in two? 

message: It's too long.  There has definitely been significant developments in the comic industry since 1985 that differentiate between then and now.  I have heard amateur comics historians refer to the period from 1985 through the end of "Heroes Reborn" (or the beginning of the Ultimate Universe, depending who you ask) as the "Iron Age."  Then 2000 through 2008 (when the Iron Man film was released) as the "Digital Age."  Then 2008 - Present as the Modern Age, or in some circles the "Cinematic Age."  I think some variation of this will become standard once history catches up with itself, and also, of course, when someone of academic or industry authority publishes a source we can use.  Ditch ∝ 20:21, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: While I agree that there have been wide changes in the industry in terms of subject matter, censorship rules, and creative personnel, Wikipedia can not set its own periodization rules. I am far from certain that Heroes Reborn (1996-1997) can be seen as the end or the beginning of an era. It only lasted for about a year, and primarily affected two of Marvel's team-books (the Avengers and the Fantastic Four). The X-books were largely unaffected, though several of their titles were canceled by the end of the decade. The reboot of the Spider-books in 1999, and their declining popularity due to poorly received changes may have had more lasting effects in Marvel's profitability. Dimadick (talk) 19:13, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Problem with the modern age date range