Talk:Lucius Tarquinius Superbus

message: Another possible cultural reference (it may refer to Tarquin the fifth, not the seventh) is seen in Macbeth's Dagger Speech. "With Tarquin's ravishing strides, towards his design/Moves like a ghost" (Act II, sc. 1, line 58)
137.186.196.117 03:42, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tarquin - Another Shakespeare reference 

message: compare the definition of atrocity at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocity
with the sentence from this article:
". . . the books were consulted and recommended that two Gauls and two Greeks be buried alive in the city's marketplace. The magistrates duly followed the advice, showing a traditional willingness to commit atrocities to ensure the well-being of their nation."
I would say that:
It is not accurate to to class the burying of four people alive following the directions of a religious text well over 2,000 years ago with mass bombings such as Hiroshima or Dresden.  
Call the burying up of four people murder or human sacrifice--that is what it is--but the term atrocity nowadays seems to evoke images of mass political or ethnic violence that touches upon thousands and thousands of victims.
Or, looking at the ancient world:
Crucifying captured slaves after the Spartaus revolt was foiled: atrocity.
Destroying of Jerusalem by Titus: atrocity
This instance: human sacrifice
Agree? Disagree?
Mnentro 22:53, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Atrocity" term out of place? 

message: It should be noted that Tarquinius Superbus was probably the grandson of Tarquinius Priscus rather than his son. Livy makes mention of this possibility in his book, "The Rise of Rome". The point of contention is this; when Tarquinius Superbus murdered Servius Tullius, it was said Tullius was in his old age and Superbus was a young man in his prime. Given Tullius' reign of 44 years, it would've been impossible for Tarquinius Superbus to be a young man when he killed Tullius, if in fact he were the son of Priscus. Superbus himself reigned for 25 years so he had to be a grandson of Priscus, unless he was 70-100 years old when deposed. The numbers simply don't add up. Even if Superbus was 10-20 years younger than Tullius, he would've been middle-aged when he came to power. 
--LTarquinSuperbus (talk) 19:37, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Son or Grandson?

message: I have fixed alot of this article using Livy.  If anyone has time, it would be great to include some references and info from Dionysius of Halicarnassus.  I understand his history contains some variations on Livy's account.--Urg writer (talk) 11:02, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Dionysius

message: The article describes him as "legendary," which appears to imply that he didn't actually exist.  Do historians really know one way or the other, though?  The main source for his life is Livy, who certainly isn't regarded as very reliable for events that occurred centuries before his time.  But if there is a serious possibility that Tarquin really existed, then the article should say so.  Or if that possibility has been ruled out, then the article should say how it has been ruled out.  Kevin Nelson (talk) 07:49, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Purely legendary?

message: 1) I don't think it's right to have fictitious portraits in infoboxes.
2) The article doesn't really make clear whether Rome was part of Etruscan territory or whether the Tarquinii had set up shop in Rome as independent rulers.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.139.81.0 (talk) 23:43, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Two things 

message: Can someone explain this part of the background section to me: 
"To forestall further dynastic strife, Tullius married his daughters, known to history as Tullia Major and Tullia Minor, to Lucius Tarquinius, the future king, and his brother Arruns.[3] Their sister, Tarquinia, married Marcus Junius Brutus, and was the mother of Lucius Junius Brutus.[4]"
Marcus Junius Brutus, the Caesar assassin, was not born until 85BC and was married to Claudia Pulchra and then Porcia Catonis.  This article is about the last king of rome who died in 496BC.
Is this in reference to another Marcus Junius Brutus?  If so, this should be made very clear, if not, then I believe this is strictly inaccurate and should be removed.
:Roman families tended to use the same names over and over from one generation to the next.  See Praenomen, Gens, and Roman Naming Conventions for more information.  The Marcus Junius Brutus in question was the father of Lucius, the first consul in 509 BC, and this is clearly stated in the article.  He's the first of ten individuals named Marcus Junius Brutus listed in the article on the Junia gens (although there were probably many others who weren't notable), and the earliest Junius to appear in history.
:He doesn't currently have an article, however, because pretty much all we know about him is that he married the king's sister, and had at least two sons (the other one, also named Marcus, and thus probably the elder of the two, was put to death by Tarquin, who presumably saw him as a potential rival).  This is adequately noted in other articles, such as this one and the article on Lucius.
:I don't think there's any risk of confusion here.  Apart from the fact that this Brutus lived almost five hundred years before the other one, most people studying Roman history will already know that it's possible for different people to have similar names... much as they do today.  The article plainly notes that this Marcus was the father of the first consul, thus identifying him as clearly as possible; if this were an article about Marcus, then a hatnote distinguishing him from Caesar's murderer might be in order.
:But as Brutus is only mentioned in passing, further distinction would simply be a distraction: "Their sister, Tarquinia, married Marcus Junius Brutus, the father of Lucius Junius Brutus, subsequently one of the first consuls of the Roman Republic; this Marcus is not the same person as Marcus Junius Brutus, one of Caesar's assassins, who lived almost five hundred years later; Roman families used the same names from one generation to the next, so that many individuals might share the same name over the course of several centuries."  There's such a thing as too much disambiguation, and this is it.  P Aculeius (talk) 04:45, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree. We wouldn't have a comment explaining that a "John Smith" mentioned in an article was not the same person as any one of several other people called John Smith. That would only happen if there was some reason why confusion should occur in the context of a specific article. Paul B (talk) 09:37, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Marcus Junius Brutus Error? 

message: LTS almost certainly existed. He is not legendary. A lot of legend grew up around him, but that does not mean that he did not exist. A lot of legends have grown around JFK, but even the most insane conspiracy theorists don't claim he didn't exist.Royalcourtier (talk) 09:37, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Nobody claims he didn't exist. You are making a confusion between legendary and fictional. Tarquinius is a historical figure appearing in many legends (and a legend is not a fairytale!). This is why he is - as the six other kings of Rome - referred to as legendary by many historians. Sapphorain (talk) 12:02, 17 June 2016 (UTC)

text: As Sapphorain says.  This is an issue I have to deal with regularly when writing and revising Greek and Roman articles: how do you indicate the larger-than-life status of heroes, generals, kings, demigods, or deities without implying that they didn't exist?  Many articles use the word "mythical", which I tend to avoid: the technical definition of "myth" refers to a traditional story told for a particular purpose, without respect to historicity, but most people take it to mean "fictional", which I think is inappropriate for personages whom the ancients regarded as historical figures or deities, even if we have doubts about their authenticity.  Besides, even if the stories attached to a particular figure are later developments, they generally coalesced around some person or figure who did exist.  As the old joke says, "the Iliad and the Odyssey were not written by Homer, but by another man of the same name."  P Aculeius (talk) 13:52, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not legendary 

message: The article ommits that his original Greek name is unknown but it is known that he was the son of a wealthy CORINTHIAN GREEK REFUGEE NAMED DEMARATUS. ￼ 98.113.91.244 (talk) 16:18, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: You're confusing him with Lucius Tarquinius Priscus, where this is clearly stated.  AND THERE'S NO NEED TO SHOUT.  P Aculeius (talk) 16:27, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lucius Tarquinius Corinthian Greek ancestry  

message: Time life book The Etruscans page 24. 98.113.91.244 (talk) 16:22, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: See above reply.  P Aculeius (talk) 16:28, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source Used of Lucius Tarquinius' Greek roots