Talk:White separatism

message: For instance a statement like this "Many white separatists argue that white separatism is not the same as white supremacy" is making it look like a white separatist has to "argue" or defend themselves from being a nazi when a white separatist by definition is not necessarily a nazi. 
Just because a lot of white supremacist falsely label themselves as white separatists does not change the definition of white separatism or the real non violent people that follow it.
This article needs a lot of anti-white separatism POV clean up.  Just last month someone had "white separatism" reverting to the "white supremacy" article.
108.32.4.7 (talk) 00:46, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: People are sneaking their POVs into the article

message: The reason why Negroes are around "white (people)" is that Negroes toiled in the fields when "white (people)" would not toil.  That is the only reason why "white (people)" keep Negroes nearby to them.  Superslum 14:14, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Slaves toiled

message: The history section is simply two American presidents saying that the races should stay separate. But those quotations have nothing to do with the history of the white separatist movement. Rather they appear to be in the article as justifications. Unless anyone can find a source that tie Jefferson and Lincoln as the founders of white seperatism, then I htink we should omit the long quotations. -Will Beback 19:41, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's clear that white separatist beliefs were being espoused by these presidents.  The fact that this might be taken as "justification" for white separatism is a red herring. Jim Bowery 11:13, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's clear according to whom? We need either a self-identified white separatist, or a reputable research on the movement, connecting these quotations to the movement. There are quotations from Leviticus that we could add too, but those would not be relevant or help our article either. -Will Beback 20:40, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  History 

message: Once again this article is veering off into being a one-sided POV essay extolling White racism. Why is the criticism of this movement buried? Why is so much of the entry uncited blogging or unchallenged statements by well-known racist bigots?--Cberlet 21:37, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There is certainly POV creep in that the "criticism" section is replicated throughout the article in statements that question the honesty of white separatists. Jim Bowery 19:44, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: POV Creep

message: added two sources to the lead. one from stormfront which, while not really a 'reliable' site as far as facts are usually concerned, is used only to cite the opinions of white separatists. the second is an excerpt from the journal of political and military sociology citing the anti-racist rebuttal. -- frymaster 05:41, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Sourcing the lead

message: The entire concept founding a homeland for whites is silly. There happens to already be a homeland for whites. It's called Europe.
::Maybe you should take a trip to this "homeland for whites" called Europe. Its time to wake up, because you don't understand the world you're living in.--172.131.84.47 07:47, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Parts of urban Europe actually have a white minority just as many US cities. It is 2008 and Europe has been undergoing mass third world immigration for quite a while...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.246.214.246 (talk) 13:52, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Quite Silly Indeed

message: What are the White Separatism views on Jewish people? --Topk (talk) 11:19, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Views on Jews? 

message: The odd, seemingly random and and sourceless reference early in the article to paleoconservatism/white separatism being related needs to go. I wish I could elaborate with some giant essay but what more is there to say than; the two are not related? I'm sure there have been racists whom held paleoconservative ideals, but for example does one consider Marcus Epstein, a mixed Jew/Asian seem to be a "white separatist"? He is a fairly well-known figure in paleoconservatism and paleolibertarianism. The claim is just too sporadic. Paleoconservatives oppose amnesty and increased immigration but they also oppose collectivism of all types, which would disqualify race from carrying legal weight.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.246.214.246 (talk) 13:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The edits you made appear to be unsourced personal views. I'm going to undo the edits. If you can find reliable secondary sources making the same comments about white separatism then they can be restored.   Will Beback  talk   05:36, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Paleoconservatism

message: I would think it would be called nationalism or white nationalism and direct you to that article with maybe an exception for South Africa. The U.S. and Europe cannot have "white separatism" because they are already white. Yes, there are areas where whites are the minority but no one in the U.S., Canada, France, Brazil or Germany says let's give up our country and create a just white country. No, the discussion centers on nationalism and deporting the "non-whites". This article really should direct to white nationalism again with the exception of South Africa where there a movement for a minority white population in a HISTORICALLY black majority nation(which are the conditions of white nationalism comparing to black nationalism, Roma, or Kurdish people). to create their own homeland.
A majority population does not discuss separation, it discuses deportation and immigration controls.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.234.110.66 (talk) 05:36, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Only South Africa 

message: White separatism began in America almost immediately after the end of the Civil War.  Emancipated slaves returned to Africa by the ship load forming among other nations, Liberia.  The Capitol, Monrovia, is named after President Monroe.  White separatism and black separatism have grown up more or less together, each making demands that the other considers unacceptable.  The KKK and Black Panthers have been quite belligerent, particularly the latter.  Demands for revenge one against the other have created several problems: persons who detest racial segregation in any form risk being called "Uncle Toms" or "Scalawags," by those who still demand separation.
It is a disciplinary problem that seemingly will not go away.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rocmike3 (talk • contribs) 00:00, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The edits you made appear to be unsourced personal views. I'm going to undo the edits. If you can find reliable secondary sources making the same comments about white separatism then they can be restored.   Will Beback  talk   05:36, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  An older tradition than it appears. 

message: The article needs to be revised in accordance with the formal definition of "separatism."  The Oxford definition of SEPARATISM: "The advocacy or practice of separation of a certain group of people from a larger body on the basis of ethnicity, religion, or gender."  Nowhere is the term "race" included in this definition.  Also, "ethnicity" and "race" are two distinct terms per the Wikipedia article "Race and ethnicity in the United States". The article as presently written seems to establish a different definition of "separatist" that is specific to "white separatist."  The fact that the article as presently written infers a connection between "racism" and "white separatist" suggests that at least one contributing author is incorrect is making such an assertion.  Joseph Ellerbrock — Preceding unsigned comment added by Artoffugue (talk • contribs) 14:31, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: our articles should reflect what sources meeting our criteria at WP:RS say about the subject " White separatism", not the individual words. Doug Weller talk 20:25, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

text: WP:TRUTH, WP:RS, and etymological fallacy EvergreenFir (talk) 20:26, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Definition of "Separatism" 

message: I provided three reasons why I prefer "Advocacy for economic and culturally distinct white nations" as the short description for this page:
# more closely matches article - in fact, it's copied straight from the lead
# describes "separation" - it contains more information
# shorter - A very high priority for short descriptions.
Can you elaborate on the reasons you prefer a different short description? Daask (talk) 23:18, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I can.  Your description is vague "Advocacy for economic and culturally distinct white nations" could mean any number of things, while "Advocacy for white nations separate from other races and ethnicities." clearly spells out what the ideology is meant to separate: whites from other races and ethnic groups.  Economic concerns are virtually unmentioned in white supremacy, and are not in any way a central part of the philsophy. Using "culturally distinct" instead of spelling out the separation of whites from others is very close to whitewashing the concept to make it more palatable. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:36, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think the article needs further improvement before discussion of the lead or short description are worthwhile. Thank you for taking the time to describe your reasoning. I'll try to work on this article within the next few weeks. Daask (talk) 20:45, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Short description 

message: Given this article's brevity, I recommend the also-short page White ethnostate which is part of this philosophy be merged into this page. Skingski (talk) 18:55, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal 

message: Please see discussion at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:White_supremacy#Merger_Proposal_from_White_separatism thank you.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.84.155.212 (talk) 14:29, 28 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger Proposal to [[White supremacy]]