Talk:Oakland Coliseum station

message: If someone could clean up some of the grammar here I would highly appreciate it, I have to admit I have poor copyediting skills --JVittes 04:16, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Everything looks good now, should we merge the articles? --Will74205 20:53, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Sorry I was gone on vacation, go ahead have the articles all merged, by redirecting the other two to here, and I'll try to find places to direct link from, as in the BART, the 3 BART line articles, and Capitol Corridor, also Oakland International Airport, and airBART, if any others are found go ahead and direct link. --JVittes 22:41, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I made an svg map of the general area to make a sample map here , the original SVG file is here . Suggestions as to what to do would be appreciated; Will74205 if you wish to edit the SVG map to make a map please go ahead and do so, note that since it still has the layer from google maps as reference it cannot be copied to wikipedia, so I have not done so, but the a png file that does not show it can be. --JVittes 20:36, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  The maps are very impressive!!!!! You should upload the maps yourself, either just to the English Wiki or the Commons. I don't want to take credit from you. What software you used to create/edit these maps? I am not that familiar with graphic editing so you might do a better job, but I would include the Amtrak parking lot and perhaps enlarge the Amtrak platform a little bit. --Will74205 04:34, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  All I do is make screenshots of the area I want from the map view or hybrid view of the google map version I made http://www.stanford.edu/~jvittes/bayareatransit4.html, once I have the screenshot I want I use Inkscape, I load in the screenshot, then start drawing on top of it. Inkscape is very awesome, available for free at http://www.inkscape.org/, I started using it because that's what the SVG files for the Caltrain and BART pages were made with. It is surprisingly easy to use, I started with wanting to make a map for the ACE commuter train service, I put that one here, http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:ACE_map_plain.svg, they are easily editable. Png file is now at http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Oakland_Coliseum.png, SVG file at http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Oakland_Coliseum_plain.svg. Try using Inkscape to edit the SVG files, I think you'll find it quite a useful tool. --JVittes 05:56, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Stub Cleanup 

message: *line: this is for the physical railway line that a station is located on, not the services (like BART's 5 colored services) which are listed later. I put "BART main line" for now, but I will attempt to add a reliable source for the official name (BART names their sections of track as "S Line" and so on).
*other: I removed the airport icons because they are not part of the bus numbers in any BART literature - they are only present on the far right side of rollsigns, which are not official names. De-bolded the agency names per MOS:NOBOLD. Removed the poorly formatted reference - it's already cited in the bus connections section. I made the link to Bay Farm Island more useful.
*bicycle: no need for excess detail; the total number of racks may be worthwhile but dividing by type is unnecessary.
*opened: removed  - it makes for some awkward formatting with the double parentheses, and the dates are recent enough to not need clarification.
*rebuilt: Moved the OAK line opening to here, since it was a renovation (expansion) of an existing station rather than a completely new station.
*route map: This makes more sense with the description of the station layout, where I'll be moving it soon.
*map_locator: This is duplicative of information present elsewhere in the infobox - the address and the coordinates with map pulldown.
*lede: Standard copyediting. I will move the citation about the pedestrian bridge to the station layout section. No need to cite that it's the Airport Connector terminus - that's an obvious, uncontroversial fact.
Pi.1415926535 (talk) 05:08, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Part 1: infobox and lede

message: *Mostly just copyediting to reduce wordiness. A couple statement need citations, which I'll try to dig up later. Added some details about the history of airport connection plans, and cleaned up citations. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 06:51, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Part 2: History

message: *Images: I'll be moving the bus image to the bus section, and adding the station map as a final edit once I see what the formatting looks like.
*Sources: Openrailwaymap is a user-editable site; while it's a wonderful resource, it is not a reliable source (and contains errors) and is not an appropriate citation. I have also removed the citation to Nextdoor, which is a neighborhood gossip site.
*Layout diagram: I moved these into the individual sections to better integrate them with the prose, and to make it more obvious that the Amtrak and BART stations are separate. I removed bolding per MOSBOLD, and some superfluous citations; I also modified widths to reduce the number of line breaks and thus reduce the amount of scrolling required to read the page.
*Amtrak: General copyediting and citation cleanup. I removed references to the Coast Subdivision - the cited source and other official documents (example) make it clear that contrary to Openrailwaymap's claim, the Coast Subdivision ends at CP NORTH ELMHURST well south of Coliseum.
*BART: Again, general copyediting; I combined the prose about the main BART and OAK-BART platforms and improved citations. 
*Fencing: I removed this sentence for two reasons. One, it's not relevant - fencing is a normal part of any construction project; it's only worth mentioning when it causes significant issues or is the subject of controversy. Second, neither of the cited documents actually talk about fencing actually being installed on the bridge; they only talk about the general need for fencing of the ROW as a whole, and Google Maps alone is not a reliable source.
Pi.1415926535 (talk) 07:58, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Part 3: Station layout

message: Obviously, this is the most disputed section of the article. I have changed it to what I believe is information agreed on by everyone: an image of bus operations at the station, a list of what bus numbers serve the stop, where buses stop at the station, and that is serves as an important interchange. We can start from there and discuss what does and doesn't belong.
*I chose an image that shows the whole bus transfer area, rather than a single bus without context, but I'm open to other opinions.
*I removed the word "vital", which has connotations that make it not an ideal descriptor unless a source uses that word.
*I removed the reference to the daily ridership of the routes - for the time being - for two reasons. One, the source only gave yearly ridership; trying to translate that into daily ridership (because weekends have different ridership) would be original research. Second, the sources do not establish that all those passengers actually transfer at the station - and the number of bus passengers that actually use the station is what would be important to the article. A source that gives that number would be welcomed.
*I am not necessarily opposed to having a list with a single bullet item for each bus route, including the default terminals. However, details like part-time terminals and alternate routings are service information that may belong on List of AC Transit routes, but do not belong in an article about a station that those routes happen to stop at. This article is about the station, not about the services that run to it. (It's no different from putting information about Capitol Corridor stopping patterns, and what railway lines it runs on, in the Capitol Corridor article rather than here). I also am very wary about putting the information in a table - it takes up more space than a list, is more difficult to edit, and less convenient for screen readers, but doesn't actually add to the quality of the information being presented. Form should folllow function.
Pi.1415926535 (talk) 08:55, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Part 4: Bus connections

message: *Moved commons category to the right to reduce whitespace
*Added separate coordinates for Amtrak platform
*Re-added the SVG map
*Removed "See also" that's already linked in a footer template
*Modified caption for infobox image
*Citation for some history - the last 
While I understand that not everyone is going to be happy with every single change I have made, hopefully these explanations make clear why I have made these changes, and where they can be improved upon and why I have removed some information and citations. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 09:20, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Part 5: images and final cleanup