Talk:Benito Mussolini/Archive 2

message: There is far too much detail here on atrocities in Ethiopia.  This information would be better placed in an article on the Italian war in East Africa rather than in an page which proports, after all, to be a biography of Mussolini.  Also I would like to see some better treatment on Mussolini's approach to foreign policy as a whole; in particular his clash with Hitler during the Dolfuss crisis in 1934 and the reasons behind the decline of the Stresa Front.  More information, too, on Il Duce's social policy would be helpeful.  The 'Facist Dictatorship' section is a mess: it needs to be split up into sub-sections, seperating out domestic and foreign policy.  His attitude to racial policy might also be of some use, in particular his early perceptions of National Socialism.  I seem to remember him saying if Nazi logic on this question were followed the only 'pure' race in Europe would be the Laps.  Why, moreover, is there not more on the meeting in July 1943 of the Fascist Grand Council, surely one of the great turning points in his career.  Instead we get a wholly unecessary section on his Jewish mistress. Overall I find this whole article at best second rate and suffering from some serious political and conceptual distortions.
White Guard 05:50, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I can only agree with you that the article IS an abomination. I'm the one whi placed it in the ""Start" class, after all. I would like to see every claim documented. But, is ain't gonna happne, since this is Wackipedia.--Francesco Franco aka Lacatosias 07:39, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree about deleting the part on the "Jewish mistress". Stupid gossip. About the rest, it's been unprotected now so just change it if you think you can improve it. --MauroVan 12:46, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Stupid gossip? Please explain what you mean. Is it gossip that she was his lover? Is it gossip that she was Jewish? Is it gossip that she wrote an influential biography of him (much of it fawning invention), first published in English in 1925 and then in 1926 in Italian? Is it gossip that Mussolini corrected the page proofs? —Ian Spackman 11:57, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I mean that what we have here is YAIWIAZ (Yet Another Information Whose Importance Approaches Zero). Listing her in the See also section is more than enough. --MauroVan 12:57, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

text: You deleted a large section of pure information based on your personal impression. That in itself is considered vandalism, a fact which you should be well aware of by now. Do it again, and by all means do have the lack of good taste to report is as "vandalism" (especially after calling me "stupid"). Do, as I'll just sit back and watch another one of you apologists get banned. Have a good day. Dahn 23:47, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Then surely you won't mind me calling what you are doing utter imbecility. Dahn 23:53, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Get a room, guys. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 23:57, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

text: Every now and then one meets the absurd type of person who, instead of writing down more information on other topics, decides to delete a whole section of perfectly valid things "to ballance things out". Such persons have an agenda to support, and some ideological guidelines to obey. It's good that you don't have an intention to "enter an exchange", White Guard, because continuing to simply delete text is basically signalling your way out of here. Dahn 00:30, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ethiopia and Other Matters. 

message: Well I see that the cranks have taken over this oage again. I've taken it off my watchlist as I usually have to do in such cases. Good day. --Francesco Franco aka Lacatosias 07:57, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Cranks

message: I've removed both of these tags, since no justification was provided for including either of them. Please discuss the reasoning here. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 05:52, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know about NPOV, but the expert tag and, perhaps VERIFY tags, seem clearly appropraite to me.
What I usually do with philosophy articles (my real area) is put a citation needed tag next to just bout every non-obvious sentence that is not cited.--Francesco Franco aka Lacatosias 17:41, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

text: There are only two things I agree with White Guard: any reference to Mrs Sarfatti should be deleted as unrelevant (indeed, it's worse than unrelevant: it's a subtle attempt to present Mussolini as friendly towards the Jews) and the article needs to be improved, even though there's no justification for any special tag. I urge White Guard to make bolder moves towards what he considers as an improvement. Editing is much better than criticizing and putting tags around, even if much more difficult. On the contrary, talking here is OK. --MauroVan 09:41, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  He was heavily involved with her to the the extent that she dictated his foreign policy until 1935 (Richard Washburn Child). I think that's pretty significant. And I don't understand why there is such a huge drive to tar Mussolini with the brush of 'Anti-Semite' - Bosworth states that he was 'never strongly pro- or anti-Semitic'. cf. Hitler, etc.  --Simplyw00x 00:27, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV tag, expert tag 

message: How about we all agree to go away and re-read a serious biography of Mussolini before returning? (My choice is Denis Mack Smith’s, but the more of us re-read different texts the better the article will become) —Ian Spackman 12:09, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That'd be great, huh?  Richard Bosworth's biography is, I think, meant to be the best in English. john k 13:20, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  A modest proposal 

message: Thank you :oc:User:Joao Xavier
:Have done. —Ian Spackman 11:34, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please add oc:Benito Mussolini

message: If you look under his picture, it says "Prime Minister of Italy", and then under that in bold font it says "In office". I can't find where to edit that out, but it's blatantly obvious that's false, so it should be removed. -NorsemanII 02:43, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  It says Mussolini is "In office"? What?! 

message: Not going to weigh in on this thing at all, just wanted to point out that the last link under External Links, The Jewish mother of Fascism, a title just begging to be read, does not lead anywhere.  Edit to your heart's content.  24.12.45.64 05:23, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for mentioning this. I have fixed the link. -NorsemanII 07:03, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bad Link 

message: I've started an approach that may apply to Wikipedia's Core Biography articles: creating a branching list page based on in popular culture information.  I started that last year while I raised Joan of Arc to featured article when I created Cultural depictions of Joan of Arc, which has become a featured list.  Recently I also created Cultural depictions of Alexander the Great out of material that had been deleted from the biography article.  Since cultural references sometimes get deleted without discussion, I'd like to suggest this approach as a model for the editors here.  Regards, Durova 17:20, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Cultural depictions of Benito Mussolini]] 

message: For whoever keeps removing the category tag which identifies BM as a member of the Order of Malta, please have a look at the following link.  He was a grand cross.  Please stop removing the tag.
http://www2.prestel.co.uk/church/nazi/duce.htm
Russophile2 03:49, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Knight of Malta

message: Why are their no photos of any of Mussolini's balcony addresses in this article? --NEMT 04:27, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Balcony photo?

message: Hello everyone. I have made some alterations to the "Birth of fascism" section relative to Mussolini as a soldier in the First World War. I hope you like them and I look forward to receiving comments. Cheers, --Jimbolone 14:24, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well done. --NEMT 19:24, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mussolini as soldier in World War One 

message: The introductory paragraph states that Mussolini was "captured and hung near Lake Como by Communist Resistance units". This is not so. He was captured and shot. His body was subsequently brought to Milan where, together with that of his lover, Clara Petacci, it was hung upside-down. However, I saw no possibility of editing this slight error, and it would be good if someone in the know could take care of it.  --Jimbolone 15:00, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Introductory paragraph 

message: what's this mooney business about eh? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.98.36.253 (talk) 18:32, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  manoony kamoony 

message: Alternativa Sociale is not a neo-fascist party. It can be collocated in the extreme-right wing, but it's not neo-fascist. Fascist and neo-fascist parties are forbidden by Italian Constitution.
I just added more information relating to the Matteoti Crisis, I am re-reading one of my fav books, the Denis Mack Smith biography. I would like to know what the original writers think of my addition, and hopefully will not delete it. I hold a BA and MA in History and have been teaching it since 00. 
-Malax 3/6/07
: I agree with you about the Denis Mack Smith biography. I ended it realizing that I had less grasp on what Italian Fascism was as a coherent ideology than I had previously imagined. A sign of a good book! Nonetheless I don’t quite see why A Mussolini would want to have anything to do with a party which which was not in some clear sense a successor party to that of her illustrious namesake. She has hardly done a lot to distance herself from him! Essentially, once the Blair-mirror-image moderniser Gianfranco Fini had re-positioned the MSI as merely post-Fascist she was obliged to split. Certainly fascist parties are outlawed in Italy, just as fraud is legally discouraged in the UK. I suppose we could call it a follower of the pre-post-fascist tendancy. But simply neo-fascist does seem simpler. —Ian Spackman 03:13, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alessandra Mussolini and Alternativa Sociale 

message: I've a few comments on the article, but I won't claim to have the expertise on BM to make the revisions and, bearing in mind some of the astonishing, embarassing vitriolic rants in this discussion page, I'm not keen to get too deep into it. However, my tuppenceworth.
1. As mentioned earlier, 3 pictures of Mussolini with Hitler is a bit much. One would make the point. 
2. The information on the formation of the Facist movement at the start of the section on BM's WW1 service seems misplaced.
3. The section on the invasion of Ethopia causes me some problem. It is long, detailed and POV (in tone, as much as content) and the English and punctuation aren't the best. It probably should be cut down and properly re-written, but in the mean time at least some better puntuation and line breaks.
4. Please keep the discussion page polite. 
Epeeist smudge 14:58, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A few Comments 

message: After reading over this article a couple of times I have come to the clear conclusion that the author(s) have written this article with bias. While I am far from a pro-fascist, as a historian I feel that it is imperative to create an accurate picture of the events as they happened rather than a judgmental summary of a man's life. Many statements in use quotations to mock the legitimacy of Mussolini's reign in Italy--and the immeasurable effect it had on the nation.
Are we really supposed to believe that an entire nation was duped/scared into the support of a dictatorship minus a couple of anarchists/socialists? Instead, I think some sections should be added on the real image Mussolini had as leader. We must look at the way he utilized the cult of personality as a legitimate/effective leadership style. Are we to forget that Mussolini's main goal was to make Italy a prominent and autocratic nation? Are we to leave out that Italy was the least effected by the Depression of 1929 because of such policies? Or that he was voted Time Magazine's first ever Man of the Year? It is clear that the author is much more educated on the life of Hitler than that of Mussolini, as the generalizations s/he makes relate to Mussolini's blind allegience to Hilter (far from true). In effect, Mussolini was a fascist, Mussolini had no Final Solution--only a goal of continued nation building (See, Stanley G. Payne).One thing is clearly left out, his political policies put the value of the state over the value of the individual. It is unfair to clump Mussolini in with Hitler and call it a day. There were many positives (massive technological and international growth/provided sense of nation that was absent) AND negatives (limits on individual rights/freedom and exchange of ideas) that resulted from Mussolini's rise to power and they should both be presented without mocking tones and belittling summaries.
To have this article present a better understanding of the how/why Mussolini came to power I think there should be a section added about Mussolini's cultural influences and strategies employed during his reign. For example: the use (seemingly Catholic) ritual in everyday life, the images of speed (planes/trains), fashion/the ideal mother/modern woman that was largely expressed through film. Mussolini also used iconization: he was IL DUCE not Il Duce you could collect your own Mussolini head (like heads for paperweights) as well as the cult of technology and progress so ingrained in his support of the Italian nation.  For in reality "Mussolini was a skilled and ruthless tactician who sought to maximize his options and to leave an out for himself at all times—and at any cost to others or to the ideological purity of the movement he created. But as a statesman, he pursued the traditional goal of his liberal predecessors—the international recognition of Italy as a great power—by new ideological means" (See, Claudio Fogu).
I spent much more time here than I meant to, but I do hope my comments are taken to heart. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Hoppingkit (talk • contribs) 21:44, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  A Bit Slanted 

message: Mussolini's educational programs during his fascist reign should be included in this article, and I encourage anyone with the proper sources and background to add it on. Student Remark 17:32, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Education Program 

message: Benito Mussolini was not an atheist. The two sources in the article that call Mussolini an atheist are pro-Roman Catholic. Fools like John Pollard should be punished for trying to demonize atheism. The website http://www.cephas-library.com/catholic/catholic_vatican_in_world_politics_chpt_9.html is a Catholic website. These two ridiculous, nonsense and stupid website should be removed.
And, of course, Benito Mussolini was a Roman Catholic. I have found two reliable sources which shows Mussolini was religious
.
User:Devraj5000
:From Mussolini, Denis Mack Smith, 1981
:"From his father he had learnt to be a thoroughgoing anti-clerical. He proclaimed himself to be an atheist, and several times tried to shock an audience by calling on God to strike him dead"
:"In Nietzsche he found justification for his crusade against the Christian virtues of humility, resignation, charity and goodness ..."
:"Another continuing constituent of his creed was manifested in his vitriolic attacks against the Church, which he accompanied with provocative and blasphemous remarks about the consecrated host and about a love affair between Christ and Mary Magdalen ... Socialists who believed in Christianity or accepted religious marriage should be expelled from the party."
:As Professor Mack Smith is widely recognised as an authority on Italian history and the author of the best English biography of Mussolini, I think we must accept that Mussolini was indeed - as he himself stated - an atheist. --Stephen Burnett 11:26, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah. OK, now I understand. Everyone who says things you don't agree with is part of the Christian conspiracy. They're all in it together. Thank you for making it clear. --Stephen Burnett 11:55, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What source could possibly prove his religious belief one way or another? Mussolini in general didn't tend to have personal beliefs beyond what he thought was practical for his own advancement, so this argument be like wondering if Mussolini himself truly and privately believed in a left wing or right wing philosophy. He changed to suit what would give him more power, it seems to me. To conclude, I don't believe that the wikipedia article can make a stance on his religious beliefs because his public life is our only source, and it provides contrasting answers. -KingPenguin 16:03, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not actually one of the people anxious to fill in a box marked "religion"; I think that what people do is more important than what goes on - or what they claim goes on - inside their heads. Perhaps you should ask those who want to fill in the box why it's so important and if we need to have it. --Stephen Burnett 16:24, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stop demonizing atheism 

message: Shouldn't there be somewhere in the article where they mention the myth of Mussolini making the trains running on time?  I'd say it's a big part of his legacy.  I'd put it in myself, only I don't know where would be the best place to put it.  Angrist 07:03, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trains running on time? 

message: I think this gif image,  should be made into a movie file which can be played/paused. Firstly it is annoying to have a looping video playing while you read an article; secondly, the gif format is not really appropriate for this sort of material. Cheers Suicup 01:54, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Speech gif 

message: Mussolini was murdered, do to the fact that he never got a trial.  And it was not carried out by the government.  Sure he might have been executed if it had not been for this.  Chris H 12:46, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mussolini murrdered 

message: Sorry to let facts spoil a good "joke", if that's what it was, but the Ethiopians were not "armed only with spears, clubs and rocks". It is perfectly true that they were poorly trained and completely unequipped to fight against modern aircraft, bombs, poison gas and armaments, but they they did have an army of sorts, with several hundred machine guns. They also had some slow elderly aircraft and a few bombs, although I can't find any mention of them having been used against the Italians. 
The lengthy campaign in Ethiopia was largely due to the fact that Mussolini, in order to assure himself of a crushing victory, had deployed large military forces - about 10 times what was thought necessary by one senior officer - with little or no detailed planning of how they were to be supplied or what they were to do when they got there. He had also appointed a commander - De Bono - who decided that a slow cautious campaign was necessary. He was of course subsequently replaced by Badoglio, who was authorised to use terror tactics against the population.
(ref Denis Mack Smith, R.J.B.Bosworth.)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stephen Burnett (talk • contribs) 10:16, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ethiopian Campaign 

message: Is the paragraph about Hitler's death really necessary for this section? Murderbike 00:37, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Death 

message: The parts of the article dealing Italy in World War II are full of nonsense, talking mainly about Italians defeats and "poor performance everywhere", giving very flawed image of Italy in World War II by not explaining things properly, (and I don't want to hear stereotypical nonsense about "What Italian achievements?") such as the convoy battles, Italian divisions in North Africa post early 1941, or battles on the Eastern Front (the fact that the Italian expeditionary force was defeated in the end doesn't hide the forces performance and achievements). These parts of the article need some serious rewriting. --Kurt Leyman 14:32, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  PoV pushing in part of the article dealing World War II 

message: Please see here for debate, thanks. Tazmaniacs 15:35, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use of "Dictator" in Wikipedia 

message: I have heard first hand accounts of Mussolini's imprisonment, for a time, on the small island lying close off the northern coast of Sardinia. Heard from the son of the farmer whose farm supplied vegetables to the prisoner and his captors. Duration unknown, exact timing unknown. I see no mention of it here, and I've been unable to find any independent references. Anyone else?
184.179.76.71 (talk) 14:52, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: This is nothing new and well known: Mussolini was brought from Ponza to La Maddalena and kept there from August 7th to 27th, 1943. Afterward it was moved again to Campo Imperatore in Abruzzo, since there was danger that the allies could kidnap him and bring him to north Africa. Cheers, Alex2006 (talk) 15:21, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Mussolini also imprisoned on La Maddalena Island?

message: Mussolini a Racist? But several italian "gerarchi" were jewish themselves! Italy has never been anti-semitic like many other nations... it's not casual that the numbers of the jews deportated in the concentrations camp are very low, if confronted with other axis powers.
Fascism was, above all, "in love" with italianship... and the jews were seen firstly as italians, not as jews.
(forgive my english)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.237.68.212 (talk) 00:35, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Racist?

message: I know a lot of people have been working on this article and there is a long list of settled clowns but it seems to me the overall result is an opening apple pie that shows that this fellow Mussolini was a fine leader and managed to get a lot of poon.  Sure, there is a brief mention of censorship and propaganda, but then look at all the domestic accomplishments! The admiration of political leaders!  The daring rescue from prison! I realize that there are people who still revere the man, but this barely suggests that he is controversial, let alone widely reviled.  You have to keep reading a lot further to find the political violence, the police state, the imperial invasions, the Nazi-backed puppet regime.  All of this is in the article, but hidden.  Maybe someone who's been working on this article already could take a crack at rewriting the opening to provide at least a bit more balance.Prodes111 (talk) 19:31, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree completely. The opening does not once mention that Mussolini was a dictator (a salient aspect of his role in history!). Skinrider (talk) 11:25, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No-one is a dictator at Wikipedia. This is a POV word and not allowed. To be serious, this is of course a complicated issue. Yes Mussolini was an authoritarian ruler, but until the war he was hugely popular and there was very little opposition to his regime. Compared to his contemporaries he was, until 1943, a fairly benevolent dictator. Between 1922 and 1939, for example, a grand total of nine people in Italy were executed for political crimes. Compare that to the bloodbath under Stalin, or to Hitler or Franco. And his regime did have considerable accomplishments, compared both to the liberal regime that preceeded it and to the postwar republic, both of which were corrupt and slothful by comparison. Intelligent Mr Toad (talk) 12:47, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: lol, nice. But to address the serious part of your response, I think it would be safe to insert the phrase "and a dictator of Italy" after the current phrase "was an Italian politician" in the article opening. After all, at least half the article describes Mussolini's dictatorship --- section 3 specifically states that "Mussolini obtained dictatorial powers for one year" and "This is considered the onset of Mussolini's dictatorship", and section 4, entitled "Building a dictatorship", is all about Mussolini's actions as a dictator. A leader does not have to engage in a bloodbath to be a dictator. He only has to have supreme power. Skinrider (talk) 13:05, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: At Dictator we read: "In modern usage, the term "dictator" is generally used to describe a leader who holds and/or abuses an extraordinary amount of personal power, especially the power to make laws without effective restraint by a legislative assembly. Dictatorships are often characterized by some of the following traits: suspension of elections and of civil liberties; proclamation of a state of emergency; rule by decree; repression of political opponents without abiding by rule of law procedures; these include single-party state, and cult of personality." Did Mussolini meet these criteria? Intelligent Mr Toad (talk) 01:09, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If he didn't meet these criteria, then all uses of the word 'dictator' should be removed from the article. If we refer, at any point in the article, to Mussolini as a dictator, then it's reasonable to also add that word to the article's opening. Skinrider (talk) 18:19, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The largest part of this article is titled 'Building a Dictatorship'. Degrees of brutality are not relevant in deciding whether this term applies to him. He is an iconic dictator; it should be mentioned in the first sentence. --Cammacleay (talk) 08:25, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Precisely. Skinrider (talk) 20:35, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

text: The challenge with Mussolini is the same one historians face when dealing with Italian Fascism in general... It is extremely hard to place neatly into boxes or categories.  Having read every work the man ever wrote, it is clear to me that he lived a life full of contradiction and struggled daily with the dual lives he led.  Part of the thread above is of primary importance when discussing this man and point in history.  When compared to his contemporary "dictators" Mussolini is less dangerous, brutal and overall less hated.  His calendar is perennially the number one seller in Italy to this day!  His unique place in history is his contradiction; it is amongst the accomplishments listed in the text, his legacy.  The POV is accurate because attributing the democratic propaganda term "dictator" to the entrance to the text sets an unfair table for unbiased readers searching for a true picture of the essence of Mussolini. --user:Martillaro 13 December 2008  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.15.244.13 (talk) 20:37, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: POV of opening?

message: Mussolini fought from 1915 to early 1917 in a Bersaglieri regiment. He wasn't a sniper, he was a fusilier, an ordinary infantryman. I have read his war diary and there is no mention of sniping. Later in the war Mussolini was trained to use a trench mortar, and he was in charge of a mortar squad when one of the shells they were shooting at the Austrians misfired and Mussolini got wounded. So I can't see where that bit of information comes from. It is not in the Italian entry on Mussolini, which is thoroughly documented. I do not think that MS Encarta is a reliable source when it comes to this kind of details.--213.140.21.227 17:47, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Mussolini a sniper?

message: The importance of Arnaldo, Mussolini's elder brother, in the ascent of the Duce is not mentioned in this entry. Arnaldo was the only person that Benito really trusted, and he was the liason between him and the Vatican (Arnaldo being a devout Catholic, unlike his former Socialist and atheist brother). I think there should be an entry on Arnaldo Mussolini, and something should also be added to this entry.--213.140.21.227 17:52, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The Missing Brother

message: The section dedicated to Mussolini as a soldier in the first world war has been drastically altered, and I find no mention in the discussion section of any intended modification of the much longer paragraph that was there before. --Jimbolone 11:16, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  censorship 

message: The "foreign policy" section seems to have been partially copied from .  Other sections should probably be checked for copyright problems.  The Groiler's encyclopedia article is cited as a source elsewhere.  This is mildly inappropriate, as Wikipedia should finding independent justification for fact in books written by historians, not pointing at competing encyclopedias. -- Beland 06:24, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grolier copyright and citation issues 

message: This article states: "He left the army an anti-socialist in 1917"
This is nonsense. Mussolini was and always stayed to be a socialist. However during the first world war many former leading internationalist-socialistic comrades suddenly proved to be much more nationalist than they claimed before. (Search for info on the internet about the betrayel of the second internationalist conference). This let Benito to the conclusion that socialism needed and should use the strength of nationalism. That is how he became a national socialist in the true meaning of the word. So what he really became in 1917 was anti-internationalistic-socialism. He let go of the internationalistic part and not of the socialist part of his believes.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.45.225.74 (talk) 11:13, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If so many people are leftist these days, why wouldn't we remind them socialism killed many millions more people than fascism and nazism? Truly - mankind still isn't able to learn on its mistakes... 85.89.184.212 (talk) 15:10, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mussolini the Socialist 

message: Many people condemn Mussolini for his dictatorship and the violence of fascism. But most people do not understand that before he conquered Italy the International Socialists where planning a revolution orchestrated by the Russian communists.
These Russian communist had by this time already many hundreds of thousands people killed in Russia during and after their revolution. The fascist have never ever been as cruel as them, not by a long shot. If Mussolini would not have taken control, than the internationalist Socialists would have turned Italy into a bloodbath. The fascist prevented this, but it was impossible to do this in a friendly way against such a violent enemy.
-----------------
These remarks show a very shallow knowledge of Italian history 1918-1922. No mention of the fact that Mussolini left the Socialist party because he was given money by powerful Italian industrial cartels (Agnelli, Ansaldo, Perrone, weapon-makers who were in favor of Italy joining the war as it would bring them huge contracts), so Mussolini's opposition to the Socialists started well before the strikes and protests that started after the end of the war. Besides, the Socialists were one thing and the Communists were another, quite different, thing. Saying that "International Socialists where planning a revolution orchestrated by the Russian communists" is proof of a big misunderstanding of what the real relations between Socialists and Communists were in post-war Italy (btw the Italian Communist Party was born in 1921, and that party had strong connections with Moscow; but it didn't exist as an independent organization before that year). Moreover, the diffusion of socialist ideas was caused by the ruthless exploitation of Italian workers and peasants carried out by the Italian middle- and upper-classes, an exploitation which was heightened during the war (imagine going on strike because of low wages in a moment when factories were busy producing machine-guns, mortars, armoured cars, military trucks, etc.--they immediately sent the Army to repress any protest), and was definitely  not something remotely controlled by the Bolsheviks in Moscow.
All in all those remarks are nonsense. Mussolini was a ruthless dictator, who carried out an aggressive and imperialistic international policy. One might mention the censorship, the elimination of dissidents, the colonial wars, the role played by Italy in the Spanish civil war, and then what Italians did in the Balkans during W.W.II (the Yugoslav and the Greeks found the Nazis more manageable!).--213.140.21.227 17:43, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Internationalist Socialism versus Fascist Socialism 

message: The article claims that "The militant members of the party were angry that only a few dozen had been killed and a bloodbath ensued, causing thousands of casualties" following the assassination of Matteotti. I can't find mention of this bloodbath anywhere else, nor is there any citation for the statement. Can someone clarify this? Also, can you be more specific? Was the bloodbath against socialists, communists and/or anarchists, or just civilian Italians in general? Was the bloodbath ordered by Il Duce, the military leaders, or did it "just happen"?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.50.170.14 (talk) 22:48, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "bloodbath" of  -24 

message: Anteo Zamboni, the boy that was lynched by the mob, was actually innocent, it says that in one of my books on Mussolini.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.44.86.61 (talk) 22:57, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anteo Zamboni 

message: I thought I better explain the reason for such a change in the intro first. Since Italia irredenta was an important part of the ideology of Italian nationalists under Fascism and obviously we have the building of the Italian Empire, "expansionaism" covers both of those things, as well as the obvious means in which the Empire could be formed in the first place; by military force. - Gennarous (talk) 01:09, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: expansionism for militarism

message: The sentence ending with footnote 24 should be entirely deleted, for the referenced article (footnote 24)  makes no mention at all of Dollfuss.  Also, the article gives no origin for the alleged quote about 'pederasts'.   So please delete that entire sentence (section  5.1). 67.78.143.226 (talk) 19:55, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll move the ref so it doesn't refer to Dollfuss, but there is no reason to remove it wholesale. The article is a whole is referenced--how does it fail to meet the criteria for being a RS? Carl.bunderson (talk) 04:40, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: 67.78.143.226, I'm not sure what point you were trying to make? Are you trying to say Mussolini and Dollfuss were not allies before the nazis had him killed? If so, you would be incorrect. - Gennarous (talk) 04:22, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Reference 24 is incorrect

message: There is a missing word in the first sentence: Benito Amilcare Andrea Mussolini (July 29, 1883 – April 28, 1945) was an Italian who led the National Fascist Party and is credited with being one of key figures in the creation of Fascism. 
It should say "one of the key figures," not "one of key figures. 
HisPowr4U (talk) 20:28, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Noted and fixed. Thanks. Carl.bunderson (talk) 06:11, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing Word 

message: In the sentence, "Mussolini's face looked as if it he had significant pain..." I believe it should read "Mussolini's face looked as if he had significant pain..." or "Mussolini's face looked as if he was in significant pain...".  Or it could all be removed since most the information in the Death section has no reference or bad references, but I suppose thats just Wikipedia.  At least add some "It is believed..." or "It has been reputed..." --67.168.101.115 (talk) 19:08, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Remove "it" and you're done. Da Baron (talk) 23:58, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Alex2006 (talk) 16:36, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Extra Word 

message: I read a book that's now out of print, called Mussolini's Roman Empire, it cast a lot of light on diplomacy between Italy and Nazi Germany.  Hitler and mussolini had several direct meetings in which they spoke about their plans and ideals.
The interesting thing is that though mussolini could speak some german he was no good with comprehension so much of Hitler's words most likey went w/o any kind of understanding.  Mussolini refused to use a translator and probably didn't understand half of hitler's words.
Da Baron (talk) 23:58, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mussolini's Roman Empire 

message: Why doesn't this article address his dealings with the Mafia? It's an interesting aspect of Italian Fascism:http://www.americanmafia.com/Feature_Articles_267.html  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.210.220.249 (talk) 18:01, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mussolini and the Mafia 

message: In the section "Conquest of Ethiopia" there is a section that describes how European powers such as Britain maintained their African colonies by "brutal" means. I did not think that a very fair assessment, and so checked the source, which turns out to be a website called Counter Currents. This is not an academic/ historical source, but more of an online polemic. Within the Counter Currents article in question, the reference to Africa and British brutality (Kenya in the 1950s) didn't even take place when Mussolini was alive, so how can it be said to be relevant to the context of Mussolini's invasion of Ethiopia?
I feel it is a real failure of Wikipedia's mission for articles to be sourced in such an ideological fashion, and for shoddy sourcing like this to be used.Stevirv (talk) 09:43, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sourcing issues 

message: This is more of a request for future expansion than a correction, but at the moment I'm searching for propaganda under Mussolini and the only mentions I've found (through my admittedly quick reading) are the licenses required by papers and one to the concept of propaganda in the opening paragraph. Did Mussolini have a specific ministry of propaganda, like Hitler? Faux scholar (talk) 01:13, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Propaganda 

message: it is obvious vandalism  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.226.255.25 (talk) 19:04, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  remove "TIMMAY!!" 

message: Mussolini's youngest daughter has been airbrushed out.  Anna Maria Mussolini 1929-1968 suffered from childhood polio.  She appears to have only been famous through her family but she does deserve a mention.  She should not be confused with Anna Maria Mussolini the wife of Romano and sister of Sophia Loren.  Can someone authourised put her in.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.96.72.111 (talk) 21:26, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Mussolini's missing daughter

message: "There was even some Jews in the National Fascist Party"
This has been bugging me since I read it and it needs to be fixed.
-08:35 ET, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
:Fixed. Carl.bunderson (talk) 22:00, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grammar 

message: This section is far from being neutral because it fails to mention that the Republicans were the democratically elected government and that the Nationalists were attempting a coup d'etat.
The reference to propaganda is misleading because when read naturalistically it implies that Italian military support in Spain was morally justified.
"Italian military help to Nationalists against the anti-clerical and anti-Catholic atrocities committed by the Republican side worked well in Italian propaganda targeting Catholics."
Incidents of "anti-clerical and anti-Catholic atrocities" are not cited and these alone are not the reason for Italian fascist support of Falangist rebels.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.144.32.165 (talk) 02:26, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spanish Civil war 

message: :There, Hitler told him that unless he agreed to return to Italy and set up a new fascist state, the Germans would destroy Milan, Genoa and Turin.
There shall be a citation here, this is quite an obscure statement. Where is this documented?
I hope we are not saying now that we have to thanks Mussolini for having avoided bombing Milan  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pierino23 (talk • contribs) 12:47, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citation required 

message: We currently have a link for Alessandro Mussolini.  This page was deleted, please remove the link.
Also we mention his father's political views.  I do not see a direct citation to back up that he was a Socialist, Anarchist, Republican.  I found some evidence of the Socialist, Anarchist (no citation), but the Republican is shakey.  Are we talking about an Italian Republican Party that would have been active in 1883-1901 or the American Republican Party that was only know internationally for freeing slaves and fighting racial injustice in the south?  I smell bias here from a view point that may not realize that the progressive movement didn't happen until 1912.  Let's be faithful to History, clarify what republican party he would have leaned towards and cite it.  This is the section showing early influences by his father, so I say 1883-1901 would be the years in question.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Micawiki (talk • contribs) 15:54, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Father dead link and citation

message: Proposal for the addition of another external link:
http://robertod.wordpress.com/2009/09/23/despot-of-the-week-7-benito-mussolini/
This is an extensive and informative article about Benito Mussolini that merits consideration for a link.
210.8.191.97 (talk) 07:17, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Addition of Informative External Link 

message: * http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/13/benito-mussolini-recruited-mi5-italy
--Mais oui! (talk) 21:40, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: So should he be in :Category:British spies? Our article might also want to mention what the crown got for that money -- 67.98.206.2 (talk) 21:43, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Documents reveal Italian dictator got start in politics in 1917 with help of £100 weekly wage from MI5 

message: This Israeli site: [JP]  tells that Mussolini was a fierce anti-Semite.Agre22 (talk) 16:02, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Mistress' diary: Mussolini was a fierce anti-Semite

message: I do not want to change the part concerning the Mistress diary by myself but I'd like someone qualified to do it.My point is that Fascism at the beginning was not anti-semite. Simply it was not an issue for them. There were a good number of italian jews between members of Fascist party at the beginning. Furthermore for several year Mussolini used to have an influential lover that was an italian jews too (which is not a tipical antisemite behavior :D). Claretta Petacci in her diary report these speeches of Mussolini in which he claimed to be anti-semite (and several other things) in order to present himself not as an Hitler follower but as the leader of that weird coalition. He was a poor megalomaniac but this claims, even if they comes from himself seems to be inaccurate.
Corrado  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.145.155.76 (talk) 12:39, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Mistress' diary: please take care