Talk:James Longstreet

message: "I never heard of any other cause of the quarrel than slavery." This is very, very similar to a statement attributed to John Mosby: "I've always understood that we went to war on account of the thing we quarreled with the North about. I've never heard of any other cause than slavery." (Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_S._Mosby#Death_and_legacy)
It's very likely that both men held that view and expressed it similarly on different occasions: Both were Confederate generals who, after the war, joined the Republican Party and supported Reconstruction. I'm suspicious, though, largely because I can't access all the sources cited on the two articles.2601:18C:4302:85A0:20E1:E2EF:D6A9:CBFA (talk) 00:12, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Attribution

message: I am in the process of a large update to this article, including extensive footnotes. However, I am starting to fall behind my intended schedule, so I have removed the inuse template from the top of the file.  I hope to finish within a week, but others are welcome to jump in in the meantime. Hal Jespersen 21:51, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My update is now complete, with two exceptions. At the very end of the article there are two sentences that require citations. I intend to remove those sentences in a couple of weeks if no one provides the citations. Hal Jespersen 23:25, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: update

message: I have reverted the recent edit about family. Please take care of the following before resubmitting:
# Remove duplication. Some of this description is already covered earlier in the article.
# Add footnotes for claims, speculation, and data. This is a fully footnoted article and additions need to follow the same degree of citation.
# Explain or remove the parenthetical numbers next to the names.
# Put dates into the Wikipedia format used throughout the article.
Thanks, Hal Jespersen 21:47, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Family revert 

message: I worked about 20 minutes trying to sort out the two paragraphs of updates some anonymous editor applied this morning and gave up and reverted it. If you would like to reapply any of these changes, please do the following:
# Add footnotes in the style used by the rest of the article. Use the name= parameter of the <ref> to handle duplicate notes. Use actual, specific URLs for online articles. Add the Genealogy book to the References section and cite it just by author, as in all other notes.
# Do not remove Wiki links from the text.
# Do not remove footnotes from the text.
# If you have something you disagree with (example, source of his nickname), do not simply delete a footnoted assertion. Adjust the text and footnote to indicate multiple sources differ.
Thanks. Hal Jespersen 20:26, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revert Feb 21 

message: :GA review (see here for criteria)
#It is reasonably well written.
#:a (prose):  b (MoS): 
#It is factually accurate and verifiable.
#:a (references):  b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR): 
#It is broad in its coverage.
#:a (major aspects):  b (focused): 
#It follows the neutral point of view policy.
#:a (fair representation):  b (all significant views): 
#It is stable.
#:
#It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.
#:a (tagged and captioned):  b lack of images (does not in itself exclude GA):  c (non-free images have fair use rationales): 
#Overall: 
#:a Pass/Fail: 
Looks good to me, I have no complaints.JRP 01:39, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Good Article

message: This fascinating article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force. Although I found one or two minor issues (detailed below), I believe it still meets the GA criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. 
For improvement in the future:
*There are a couple of areas towards the end of the article that need explicit in-line citations, which I have tagged for your convenience (to be honest, the entire "In popular media" section needs multiple cites).
*It is recommended not to use decorative quotations (the  template) in Wikipedia articles; these are intended only for call-outs.
Thank you for your hard work. The article history has been updated to reflect this review.
Regards, EyeSereneTALK 19:35, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA Sweeps (Pass) 

message: Around citation 44 the article states Gen Longstreet's nasty wound was received about a mile from the local where Gen Jackson was 
mortally hit. I thought in Foote's third "C.W. Narrative" book he states it was a distance of around four miles. Since his books aren't part of any citations in the article (and sometimes noted for their accuracy) I'm not going to edit anything. Just curious which is accurate, if known. The shorter distance is also more creepy! Kresock (talk) 01:44, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I got out my maps and measured. It is actually 4 miles, so I have updated the article accordingly. (Jackson was wounded near the current NPS Visitor Center, Longstreet on the Plank Road near the intersection with the Brock Road.) Thanks for catching the error. Hal Jespersen (talk) 19:17, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wounding at Wilderness 

message: I have made some modifications to the edits of April 8 regarding Longstreet's actions on July 2. The passage cited from Fuller was too rudimentary a description of what happened that morning; Fuller's book on Lee and Grant spends only seven pages on the entire Gettysburg campaign, after all. I added another footnote from Sears and Coddington, both of whom have lengthy descriptions about Lee and Longstreet on the morning of July 2. I also restored the citation from Wert, which had been removed with no explanation. If someone can find a citation from a reputable historian who claims that Longstreet enthusiastically and aggressively prepared for the battle on July 2, citations can be added to that effect. Hal Jespersen (talk) 23:41, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  April 8 edits 

message: I added a NPOV tag, because it seemed to be very, almost too much, pro-Longstreet, especially during the part about Bull Run I and also Seven Days. Anyone else agree? NuclearWarfare (talk) 02:59, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Are your concerns with the last sentence ("He had been established as Lee's principal lieutenant.") or with another part of this section? Clarify please.Kresock (talk) 03:52, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Please provide details of your concerns by May 6. This section contains both positive and negative opinions of Longstreet, based on the sources cited. If you have secondary sources that cite poor performances at Manassas or during the Seven Days, please bring them to our attention. Hal Jespersen (talk) 15:50, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  First Bull Run and the Peninsula 

message: This part of the article seems rather anti-Longstreet. I do know of some other sources that seem to contradict what is written; Longstreet's delay was indeed unavoidable. Should I add them, or not?NuclearWarfare (talk) 03:02, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If you have additional secondary sources that make this claim, please bring them to our attention. One such is in the article now, but it's a rather obscure one. Hal Jespersen (talk) 15:50, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

text: I have removed the POV warning boxes pending resumption of detailed discussions on this talk page about what the problem is supposed to be. Hal Jespersen (talk) 19:25, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Battle of Gettysburg 

message: One of my books (Harper's Encyclopedia of Military Biography) contains a brief evaluation of the general, and I was wondering if it merits inclusion in this page, perhaps either the legacy section or split up within the article. Here's the relevant part:
"Longstreet was an ambitious, confident, tireless, and capable commander and administrator; an able tactician, he possessed less strategic sense; he was vigorous in battle but a cautious planner; his actions at Gettysburg remain controversial; much respected by his men, who called him 'Old Pete.'"
The mentioning of "tireless" I remember from other works I've read (such as in The Killer Angels , Three Months in the Southern States, and others; especially noted during Sharpsburg) but it isn't in this page, and his military abilities I think are only lightly covered. Any thoughts? Kresock (talk) 02:11, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: In a biography of this length, adding a one sentence summary from another encyclopedia would be inappropriate. This article attempts to demonstrate Longstreet's qualities by examples within context. If you have some secondary sources that expand on the claim of tirelessness (or confidence or administration), feel free to add them within context. Hal Jespersen (talk) 15:22, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

text: I recall something appropriate from Piston's Lee's Tarnished Lieutenant; I'll see if I can dig up my copy and post it here on the talk page for perusal since it's a sentence or two. Stack Odds (talk) 15:39, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Summary? 

message: I have reverted two edits as follows:
# The changes about Longstreet at the Battle of Gettysburg removed cited material. If someone would like to offer alternatives views from other secondary sources and add those citations, that would be perfectly acceptable, but it is unacceptable to remove material from reputable sources that is properly cited.
# The additions about the Chattanooga campaign are OK on their face, albeit a bit long for the importance of the topic to Longstreet's career, but this is a fully cited article and it is unacceptable to add uncited material to it. If someone would like to add this material with the proper citations from secondary sources, go ahead (but run a spell check on it first, please).
Hal Jespersen (talk) 01:12, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  reversion of July 18 edits 

message: This is not a neutral phrase to include in an encyclopedic statement. There's lots of these kind of interpretive statements in recent contributions by User:110fremont. I remind the user that this isn't about being correct; its instead about proving one's points in any arena of disagreement. If one is going to add non-neutral language to a page, one is expected to bring the citation to prove such assertion. BusterD (talk) 12:01, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "...Bragg who had no intention of listening to anyone." 

message: I don't have the Knudsen ref, so can't look further into this, but what does this mean?
Johnston at First Manassas and Bragg prior to Perryville both used rails and interior lines strategically before Longstreet suggested it. And what does Gettysburg, which had no rail traffic involved, have to do with it? Are you saying that Longstreet was the first to suggest movement from Virginia to Mississippi or Tennessee? Certainly President Davis had suggested that previously. Most authors imply that Longstreet was merely looking for his own self advancement in getting out from underneath Lee's command, not promoting a new Confederate "grand strategy" (which is misusing the term in this context).  Hal Jespersen (talk) 15:13, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suffolk edits 

message: Ever since the infobox was changed from military person to officeholder, there is stray text around Longstreet's picture (225px|alt=|James Longstreet). Does anybody know how to fix this? Thanks. -Cwenger (talk) 20:35, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: The image= parameter is different for that template (it does not use the "[[File:" coding) and I don't know whether using two stacked images (portrait and signature) is possible. However, rather than simply fixing the images, I would recommend going back to the original template. Longstreet's historical reputation is 99.999% because of his military service, and to lead off with a minor political office really does his legacy a disservice. Hal Jespersen (talk) 22:41, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  I resolved this by stacking the two infoboxes, with military person on top and ambassador on bottom. -Cwenger (talk) 18:36, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

text: Perfecto! Thanks. Hal Jespersen (talk) 22:59, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox formatting problems 

message: People need to be careful when inserting details about the relationship between Longstreet and Grant. Although their friendship is a popular topic for historians to throw out there because of their obvious roles during the Civil War, many of the details are unclear or in dispute, not least of which concern Grant's wedding. The idea that Longstreet was Grant's best man at Grant's wedding has become so ubiquitous within the popular narrative between the two that it is all over the Internet and often even stated to be so without reference by historians. In his 2001 biography of Grant, Jean Edward Smith says that Longstreet was Grant's best man but provides no direct reference. In his 2002 book To America, Stephen Ambrose states that Longstreet was the best man without reference and as if it were simply common knowledge fact. It appears that Longstreet's supposed role as best man at the wedding has been repeated so often in secondary literature that it simply became accepted as fact somewhere along the line. We should be careful with this, lest the Wikipedia article also becomes another beacon of possible misinformation on the subject. Longstreet himself in an interview submitted to the New York Times after Grant's death in 1885 simply said that he had been "among the guests" at Grant's wedding:
http://www.granthomepage.com/intlongstreet.htm
We know that neither Grant nor Longstreet ever stated in their memoirs that Longstreet serves as best man at the wedding. So far as I know, there is no letter/book/manuscript/source where either of them stated that he did. Further, as might be understandable, there were slip-ups among the recollections of those who were at the wedding that may have contributed to misnomer. Julia Dent Grant, for example, stated in her memoirs that Sid Smith was one of Grant's groomsmen. This was impossible, being that Smith had died during the Mexican War. Therefore, the editor to Julia's memoirs posited the idea that Longstreet "may have been a groomsman." Just food for thought. I tried to clear up the section as cleanly and succinctly as possible. Harry Yelreh (talk) 23:27, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Excellent job on your edits. A large number of Wikipedia editors are not able to deal coherently with situations where reliable secondary sources disagree. By the way, Wert simply says that he attended the wedding. Hal Jespersen (talk) 00:42, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Longstreet and Grant 

message: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-forgotten-confederate-general-who-would-make-a-better-subject-for-monuments/2016/01/27/f09bad42-c536-11e5-8965-0607e0e265ce_story.html?utm_term=.a312942fe5fa. Legacypac (talk) 04:42, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Good analysis

message: The opening paragraph states that Longstreet performed "poorly" during the seven days battle (a confusion with Jackson?) which completely contradicts the section on the battle later on, as well as the assessment of his contemporaries, most of which considered him one of the strongest confederate commanders during this (overall poorly-led) campaign. I also feel that the opening paragraph disminishes his merits in a subtle way. It is said that "his men stood their ground at Antietam and Frederiskcburg" thus minimizing his own role in these battles, even though his defensive performance at Fredericksburg may have been unmatched by any commander in the whole war  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.113.177.85 (talk) 18:49, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Inconsistency

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: For some reason, this article completely skips Longstreet's biggest failure in the Civil War--his refusal to secure Lookout Valley, and the subsequent debacle at The Battle of Wauhatchie.  This is probably the most concrete example of Longstreet's insubordination toward Bragg, and the main reason he was sent to Knoxville.
204.93.125.230 (talk) 17:51, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lookout Valley 

message: This article manages to somehow ignore the fact that Longstreet committed Treason ("levying war against [the United States]") and also broke his oath as an officer in the United States Army:
"I, _____, appointed a _____ in the Army of the United States, do solemnly swear, or affirm, that I will bear true allegiance to the United States of America, and that I will serve them honestly and faithfully against all their enemies or opposers whatsoever, and observe and obey the orders of the President of the United States, and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to the rules and articles for the government of the Armies of the United States." (1830s oath)
Can we maybe say something about that instead of whitewashing it? Bgoldnyxnet (talk) 06:26, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Longstreet, along with Lee, was indicted for Treason after the War on June 7, 1865. Smith (2001) pages 416-418. The treason charge against Longstreet was dropped on June 20, after Grant went to Johnson and told him he would resign if Lee was charged with treason. Longstreet was indicted but saved from prosecution and punishment by Grant. I believe Longstreet was under the surrender document at Appomattox. Cmguy777 (talk) 06:15, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

text: What is your point? Also, if the Confederacy constituted a nation, as you say it did, then it is difficult to make the argument that he committed treason. Display name 99 (talk) 18:41, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

text: If you knew your history, you would know that he went with his state.  He fought because the CSA was invaded by the US.  The Confederates weren't trying to overturn the US government - they wanted to be left alone by it.   [User:Bubba73|Bubba73]] You talkin' to me? 22:33, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

text: Nothing that he said was wrong. Again, what is your point? You have offered no sources calling Longstreet's action treasonous nor given any specific proposed improvements to the article. Display name 99 (talk) 10:25, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Treason and Oathbreaking 

message: This paragraph was added today - does it really need to be in the article?  I don't think so.  Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 22:42, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  In popular culture - alternative history fiction 

message: A lot of work has gone into this article, mostly by a small number of editors.  Congratulations!  Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 00:56, 14 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  FA status 

message: I am undoing the revisions recently made to the article. None of them had a single edit summary, meaning that it's impossible to know what exactly the editor who made them was thinking. There were numerous problems. The editor moved citations around so that the end of one paragraph was without any citations, which is unacceptable.  The claim added that Molino del Rey was one of the bloodiest battles of the Mexican-American War  was unsourced. Grammatical problems include substituting a person's name for a pronoun when the name was already mentioned in the sentence ("Porter told him that had he attacked Porter")  but also  substituting a pronoun for a person's name when the person's name had not been mentioned for several sentences.  The link to the 8th Infantry Regiment in which Longstreet is supposed to have served before the Civil War links to an article about a unit not created until after Longstreet's death in 1918 , meaning that it cannot be a correct link. The other edits to the article were not all clearly bad. A few of them were good and I am going to restore them. However, most of them, even if they didn't necessarily hurt the article, also did not appear to be helpful. The editor in question should use better judgment in the future to ensure that his or her edits are factually correct, sourced, and necessary, the last of these meaning that they actually make the article better and that they aren't just tweaks made out of boredom. Also, please use edit summaries to help other editors figure out what you're doing and why. Display name 99 (talk) 14:50, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revert of recent edits 

message: I see there was a good-faith change by a new contributor, an appropriate reversion explained in edit summary by a seasoned editor, then a re-application of the change, this time with stronger sourcing and an attempt to explain the change in edit summary. I've created this thread so this insertion can be discussed if necessary. First, Welcome! I appreciate when re-inserting the material, an effort was made to improve the citation with the Atlantic Magazine source, so I thank the new editor for that attention. For the record, our normal working procedure on Wikipedia is (Bold, Revert, Discuss). For my part I'd prefer to see more discussion on the talk page and less in edit summary. Does anyone wish to further discuss these edits? BusterD (talk) 09:38, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent edits concerning Colfax massacre  

message: , I will explain why I have reverted your edits to the article. 
The edits have bad formatting. I am specifically speaking about putting a period in between references and improper writing of dates in articles. "April 13th of 1873" should be April 13, 1873. The style of writing in general is bad. You inserted a 2-sentence summary of the Colfax Massacre, which had already been mentioned in the article, in the middle of a general discussion of Longstreet's legacy, completely breaking the flow of the article. It is especially problematic and confusing that the Legacy section had more detail than the Reconstruction section.
The recent addition contains excessive detail. The article is already close to being too long under WP:Article size and cannot afford the addition of more detailed content. This is especially true when such detail is in entirely the wrong part of the article, as it is here.
The sources are not of a particularly high quality. The article should rely on peer-reviewed monographs and not on short articles written by journalists specializing in modern issues. Granted, the Redemption book is popular history written by someone who was not academically trained as a historian, but it is still a book rather than a popular magazine article, meaning that it would have required a much heavier amount of research.
The most recent change does not adhere to WP:Neutral point of view. This is exemplified by the use of "so-called" and the sentence "Longstreet's bravery was not in leading the militia, but in standing up to the white power structure."
I encourage you to consult Wikipedia guidelines and familiarize yourself with our policies before making further edits. Display name 99 (talk) 21:32, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent Edits 

message: The article currently reads  referring to Longstreet's West Point student time, linking to Taps (bugle call).  But the tune specifically linked to was written by Dan Butterfield during the Civil War, decades after Longstreet was at West Point. I'm assuming the actual reference is to Tattoo (bugle call), Scott Tattoo, or some similar thing, but can't say for sure without being able to consult the cited source (Wert's bio). Hog Farm  Talk 19:12, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi . Wert uses the word "taps" but does not clarify. If you want to change the link, I would have no issue with that. Thank you. Display name 99 (talk) 19:48, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
replies: text:  I've simply removed the link, because I don't think it's clear enough to chose a specific target without further information. Hog Farm  Talk 22:26, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Fine by me. Display name 99 (talk) 00:46, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Taps 

message: In the article and Infobox, it list “Louisiana State Militia” I had previously made this hypertext to the Louisiana National Guard, but this edit was reverted, claiming that the national guard did not exist then. 
The state militia forces were simply the name each state used to refer to what is now the national guard. And according to the Louisiana National Guard website, they trace their origin back to 1600s.
https://geauxguard.la.gov/history/ Digital Herodotus (talk) 18:13, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Louisiana State Militia 

message: I’m bringing up the below referenced video in the event this has not been discussed here previously.  Early on in the video, there is an interview with a man with the Longstreet Society who is described as its “resident expert” concerning the general.  He maintains that the early years and upbringing of General James Longstreet was confused by an early historian of the general who mistook the general’s nephew (from his older brother William), James Carter Longstreet, for General James Longstreet.  He notes that his source for this is the family’s modern historian, a direct descendant of the general, who extensively researched the life of his ancestor.
I know that many Wikipedia editors are passionate about accuracy regarding all things Civil War and, therefore, for any unfamiliar with this video and interview who might want to view it and determine its validity as a source for the article, please click below.  If it is deemed credible, then it would appear that the section of the article dealing with General Longstreet’s childhood might have to be revised accordingly.  If any disagree, please don’t attempt to argue with me as I am hardly an expert on the subject and am just trying to be helpful for the benefit of others.  I would, however, enjoy reading discussion among others here more educated  than myself regarding the subject.  Again, I do not know if this has been brought up here before.
Thanks to all for producing such a splendid article!  It is most appreciated.  For the video:
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS968US968&q=james+longstreet&tbm=vid&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiN887e0rb-AhVnFVkFHW47AUEQ0pQJegUIqAEQAQ&biw=1280&bih=578&dpr=1.25#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:900d97f1,vid:-Doop5_RKtU HistoryBuff14 (talk) 20:03, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  General Longstreet's early years confused with that of his nephew's? 

message: The article talks about the tactical ideas that Longstreet learned from Dennis Hart Mahan but describes Mahan as his "engineering instructor". Did Longstreet really learn tactics in an engineering course? I'm guessing that "engineering" has crept in here because Mahan was an engineer as well as a military theorist but that the course was not an engineering course.Bill (talk) 01:05, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: , the source disagrees. Display name 99 (talk) 22:05, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: So how did tactics get into an engineering course? Bill (talk) 01:54, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Military engineering is not just building things but also maintaining lines of transportation and communication. The source, Wert, also says that Mahan devoted a week in his lessons to "the art of war," which could include the things that do not fit so neatly into engineering. What we know is that Mahan taught an engineering course and that he had theories about military conduct that Longstreet later applied. From that, Wert concludes that Longstreet was influenced by Mahan's theories. As Wert is Longstreet's premier biographer, I have incorporated his position into the article. Display name 99 (talk) 03:03, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Engineering instructor