Talk:Chevalier d'Éon

message: Just removed the gendered pronouns that had crept in in recent edits: one reference to the Chevalier as "him" in the revision of 12:05 2 March 2018 by 11614soup; and two references to d'Éon as "she" in the revision of 11:01 9 August 2018 by 37.205.58.146, an IP that has many warnings on its talk page about vandalism-- As such, I've also popped a [citation needed] on their edit about there being "little evidence to support" the story. James Hyett (talk) 00:21, 18 August 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have a source that shows the person preferred "she/her" pronouns? ... discospinster talk 22:57, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: There's much discussion and an RfC on this page where the final sentence of the close is "The current article does not use pronouns, and that is good". A new discussion would need to be had to determine if consensus has changed, but the personal attacks and battleground attitude displayed by the IP need to be checked at the door.-- Jezebel's Ponyobons mots 23:03, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

text: The evidence is in her own words.  She authored an autobiography, which was unfinished, but which is referenced in the book "Monsieur d'Eon is a Woman" by Dr. Gary Kates.  In her autobiography she expressly claimed to be a woman.  This was one of the last things she wrong before her death, making her gender self ID clear.  Given that, the use of female pronouns is the only way for this article to be in keeping with the MOS:GENDERID. Cavegirlsmash (talk) 20:51, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry last things she "wrote" before her death. Cavegirlsmash (talk) 20:51, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, not all women use she/her pronouns, and if we are going to apply 21st-century gender conceptions in this article then that has to be taken into consideration. ... discospinster talk 19:56, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: She used she/her pronouns for herself in her own writings. She/her pronouns were used for her by everyone who knew her in life prior to the death and the revelation of her genitals.  She/her pronouns are mandated by MOS Gender Identity.  Her last known identity, legally, publicly, and personally, was female.  By that definition, her pronouns in English are she/her. Cavegirlsmash (talk) 02:07, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I also agree with using she/her pronouns for d'Eon. She used She/her pronouns for herself, and it is just basic respect to use the correct pronouns for someone, even if that someone is long dead. BlueJadeStorm (talk) 01:51, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

text: We don't know Eon's thoughts but we do know that a desire to return to France was an overriding consideration, and in order to achieve that, as described in the article, Eon was "made to resume the costume of that sex", a condition to which Eon "submitted". But in protest to that, Eon, despite being dressed in gowns and ruffles, combined the feminine dress with the roughneck attitude and manner of speech of a "grenadier". This is not someone I would call transgender, but then, what I would call Eon has absolutely no relevance here. What is relevant, is what the reliable sources say, and since there isn't a clear majority consensus, the current no-pronoun approach is the best one available to us, even if it fails to satisfy those who prefer masculine pronouns or feminine pronouns. Mathglot (talk) 06:07, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleaned up recent gendered pronouns 

message: The lede is ambiguous as to their biological sex, even though the main body specifies that they had '"male organs in every respect perfectly formed", while at the same time displaying feminine characteristics.' This strongly suggests these "androgynous physical characteristics" were mainly male (certainly in the sense that most readers will perceive the issue). If their biological sex-characteristics is relevcant enough to mention in the lede at all, wouldn't it be better to be less ambiguous in the wording? Ornilnas (talk) 01:37, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  "androgynous physical characteristics"