Talk:Chabad/Archive 6

message: :Might a new observer that stumbled upon this offer a small, tiny attempt at a bridge?
The way I see it, the argument here is not about the Chabad theology so much as how the theology is understood. In parts, this does remind me of obscure Catholic and generally Christian doctrinal controversies, as what is being argued over is based upon text that can be really, really misunderstood without trying very hard. :-)  Now, it links fairly quickly into a critical question of what such an article on WP hopes to achieve. IMHO, it would be helpful to put it forth as such:
"Chabad theology states X."
Then, we say, "This is what Chabadniks say that means."
Next, we say, "But, this is what other people say."
Personally, in an article that should be an overview of Chabad Lubavitch, it would seem profitable to judiciously leave aside such knotty theological controversies. It deserves a separate article, IMHO. --Penta 16:15, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a fine suggestion, but it seems to me that the article already does this.  A problem is that Pinchas and PhatJew seem absolutely convinced that other Jews agree with what Chabadniks say (even though this is just not so).  They seem totally sure that their interpretations of Hasidic texts about rebbes and tzaddiks are mainstream.  The problem, however, is that their view is rejected by other Orthodox Jews, including other Hasidic Jews.  So we are obligated to report on the fact that the rest of Orthodoxy finds these Chabad ideas incorrect. RK 17:33, May 9, 2005 (UTC)
I believe that Penta is correct, this entire part should eb in an article entitled Judaism's view of a Tzadik, and then you can quote all those sources and how everyone interprets them (if they do actually interpet them differently than chabad, which has not been shown at all)--PinchasC 22:45, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

text: This article is about Lubavitch's views, not about Judaism's views.  They are not synonymous. Jayjg (talk) 00:35, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

text: The contrasts and divisions between Lubavitch and other Jewish groups are relevant here. Jayjg (talk) 02:08, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

text: Claims on the talk: page that all Hasidim believe as Lubavitch do have not been backed up by any sources stating the same. Jayjg (talk) 15:59, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

text: Co-operation will be easy to obtain; just find some other modern-day Chassidic groups which espouse the same beliefs. Jayjg (talk) 16:34, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

text: There has not been movement because you have stuck with your unproven statements, and that tag isn't silly, if you don't like it you can vote that it should be deleted.--PinchasC 09:32, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  A tiny attempt at a bridge... 

message: I would like to propose based on some previous comments that a new article be started explaining Judaisms view of Holiness or start a new section in Holiness in which it will discuss in detail this entire controversy of what chabad and other Jews do or don't believe about them. And to link from chabad and Hasidic Judaism Breslov etc. to there if a difference is shown. Please add your thoughts. Thanks. --PinchasC | £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€ 14:24, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: How about Tzadik? JFW | T@lk 14:32, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Tzadik is a disambiguation page, but maybe Tzaddik --PinchasC | £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€ 14:33, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: New article on Judaisms view of holy people

message: By the grace of G-d
Greetings and blessings. 
I have edited the links section to add few Mashichist sites to give a greater range  of Chabad views on the issue of identity of Moshiach and the proccess of redemption. While I realize Wikipedia is not a link list I feel that all those sites should be included. I have also moved the "Breif history of Chabad Messianism"  to the historical sites section from it's original location in the Chabad Messianic sites section since it's not a Mashichist propaganda, but the author of the article simply presents an overview of the development of the Moshiach identification campaign within Chabad and further states elsewhere on his site that he doesn't believe the Rebbe is Moshiach therefore it obviously doesn't belong in the Chabad Messianic sites section.
I have also added the http://www.YudelKrinsky.com as satire is just another way to convey information and studying it creates a clearer picture about the issue in the mind of a serious Wikipedia reader.
With respect and blessing.
Ariel Sokolovsky 13:41, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: NPOV editing