Talk:Russian language/Archive 1

message: Well, I would like to say something about making articles in Wikipedia using this example. As it is now -- the article about Russian is a terrible one. What can I learn from it? Mostly nothing. As Russian is probably among the oldest (or perhaps the oldest language) of Slavic languages, it is quite idiotic just to mention how the Russian language was spoken in the areas of the Warsaw Pact and such. Yes, this is a sad (or not) fact, but here politics can't take its place, because we would like to learn something about this great language. In the same manner we would also have to check how English language became the world's most popular language (but without politics, right). It shurely was detrimental for those languages which were suppressed in the Soviet Union's times -- so they were German language, Italian language and Hungarian language to my native one -- and I don't blame them for that... My many fellow citizens think that Russian language is simple, because it sounds (sometimes) like the Slovene language, but hey, try to translate something from the Russian literature, poetry or technical field. There are many words in Russian and in Slovene, which are completely the same, but there are even more which are not. I can't also figure how non-Slavic person can learn Russian language. For me it is like someone would want to learn Chinese language or Japanese language or even the hardest one (if it really exists...) Another fact is to say that in a way Russian language represents in full the whole Earth's civilization, because of the Russian successes in Space. We all remember astronauts wearing CCCP signature on their helmets, don't we? This was simply because Russian cosmonauts mostly land on a solid ground and they have to have those markings not to be confused by local inhabitants. (I think so). If you ever have seen any Russian computer programme, you would know that they are quite extraordinary. If I'll have time I'll add something more to the present article and prevent myself from criticizing all over. I am doing my best already in filling gaps regarding Russian people... We Slovenes sometimes joke that there are approx. 220 millions Slovenes and Russians together (...so the others should be afraid of Slovenes... :-)) Well again, these were some of my thoughts at a glance. Any response is very wellcome. Best regards and, yes, not to forget, Happy New Year 2003 to all ya... --XJamRastafire 16:04 Jan 8, 2003 (UTC)
Well, Happy New 2004 also... --XJamRastafire 15:30, 5 Jan 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Early discussion 

message: I have revised most of the article, basically writing it anew, although I tried to preserve everything that had not been poisoned by inter-Slavonic recriminations.
A. Shetsen, June 28, 2004
My work on this is now done (for now).  Looking over it, I think the following areas may require more work:
* phonology. Especially, standardize the transcription.  A note to Wiki developers: is there any way properly to generate IPA of the fly based on a custom input markup language, rather than SAMPA or something else?  For Russian standardized transcription is difficult, because Slavic specialists in the West often appear to insist on a custom, vaguely Czech-based, transcription system.
* dialectology.  Since my interest is almost entirely from the point of view of the literary language and its history, it would be nice if someone who knows enough about the maze of Russian dialects could fill in this section.
* history.  I've deliberately left a lot unsaid here, including:
**historical grammar
**writing system (this too is not as straighforward as often supposed: черты и резы? глаголица? тайнопись? типография и орфография?)
**LITERATURE.  My main interest, actually, but since another article exists and does a good job providing a summary (a real critic could quibble with everything, but that's hardly the point), I'm not sure at this point how the two articles should relate to each other.  More input would be highly appreciated.
*pictures.  Only scans of documents: books, posters, manuscripts, etc., properly illustrate the language, as opposed to its bearers or the place they inhabit.  Of course, copyright violation is thus extremely difficult.  At any rate, I've provided none for now.
A. Shetsen 04:07, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Chinese is an extreme example of mutually unintelligible dialects.  There is no objective determiner for the distinction between a dialect and a language (not even mutual intelligibility) so the destinction can often be political.  I think generally linguists call it a language of speakers call it a language and a dialect of speakers consider it so.  AEuSoes1 20:50, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revision time!!! 

message: Quick comment about readability. Two quotes from the consonants section. I don't know enough (read, any) russian to properly fix this, so if someone wouldn't mind, please try your hand at it. --128.175.100.74 16:44, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I dont know anybody who speaks like this. In Moscow, ж is always hard (i.e. not palatized).--Nixer 21:01, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  &#1078; or &#1078;&#1078;... 

message: This article is rather huge as it is but it set up in a such a way that this could be  minimized. For example Russian grammar is a stub, yet the ==Russian grammar== section in this article is really complete - with perhaps too much detail for a survey article. Moving that detail to the separate article and leaving a good summary of that article here (several paragraphs or maybe a few short sub-sections), would serve users who just want the summary and those that want the detail about that aspect. This makes the article more useful to more people. See Wikipedia:Summary style. --mav 06:53, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  article size 

message: I removed the following section.
Russian crypto language, criminal slang. Word "Phenya" delivered from name of Phoenician Language. Phoenician Merchants use special dialect to communicate with each other, that no one will understand price negotiation. 
Despite, that early phenya was popular among criminals, now it is consider to be a Russian dialect. Phenya consist of usual russian words, but with different meaning, and also words borrowed from different languages, for example Yiddish.
Some Examples:
Áàöèëëà (Batsilla) - ñàëî, âûñîêîêàëîðèéíûå ïðîäóêòû, ïåðåäà÷à (Bacon, high calories products).
Áîáû (Bob'y)- ïàòðîíû(cartridges, patrons).''
The topic is interesting and it deserves even a separate article, but unfortunately this text is helplessly bad. I will try to write a stub. Mikkalai 23:21, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Phenya or Fenya (Ôåíÿ) 

message: (Public domain now)
As a preliminary reference, to be the base of the Fenya article.
ОФЕНЯ, офенская речь, см. афеня. 
АФЕНЯ, офеня об. ходебщик, кантюжник, разносчик с извозом, коробейник, щепетильник, мелочной торгаш вразноску и вразвозку по малым городам, селам, деревням, с книгами, бумагой, шелком, иглами, с сыром и колбасой, с серьгами и колечками и пр. Корень афеней влад. губ., ковровск. уезд, есть и костромские и тверские. Чтобы афеня взято было от Афин, невероятно; от г. Офен (Пешт) и венгерских ходебщиков (словаков) - также; о мнимом афенском народе VII века летописи молчат; сами офени зовут себя масыками и обзетильниками (мас - я; масы - мы; масыги - мы, свои, наши; обзетить - обмануть, сплутовать; обзетильник, плут); но офениться, знач. молиться, креститься; офест, крест; посему офеня значило бы просто крещеный, православный. Коли в языке офеней, кроме хирга, рука, нахиреги, рукавицы, и частью счета, есть греческие слова, то они искони занесены ими с Сурожья, т. е. с азовского поморья и из-за Дуная. Для беседы между собою, при торговле, офенями искони придуман свой офенский, кантюжный, ламанский, аламанский или галивонский язык; это частью переиначенные русские слова: масья, мать, мастырить, делать; или им дано иное значение: косать, бить; костер, город; или вновь составленные, по русскому складу: шерсно, сукно; скрыпы, двери; пащенок, дитя; или вовсе вымышленные: юсы, деньги; воксари, дрова; Стод, Бог и пр. Грамматика русская, склад речи также. На этом же языке австрийские (белокриницкие) раскольники переписываются с нашими. Похожий, но менее полный язык есть у костромских шерстобитов, у тверских и др. нищих, где нищенство составляет промысел; также у конских барышников, из татарских и немногих цыганских слов; у воров или мазуриков в столицах (см. бабковый язык) и пр. Счет офеней: екой, взю (кокур), кумар (стрем, стема), кисера (дщера, чивак), пинда (пенда, вычур), шонда, сезюм, вондара, девера (кивера), декан. Вот образчик офенской беседы: Ропа кимать, полумеркот, рыхло закурещат ворыханы. Пора спать, полночь; скоро запоют петухи. Да позагорбил басве слемзить: астона басвинска ухалила дряботницей. Да позабыл тебе сказать: жена твоя померла весною.
Bravo!  By the way, is Fenya still alive?  The last crypto-reference I know off the top of my head is the "Афонский рекрут" character in "Кондуит и Швамбрания"...  Does anyone know anything more? A. Shetsen 06:38, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  From [[Vladimir Dal]]'s vocabulary 

message: Please! Lets talk at Talk:Transliteration of Russian into English! Mikkalai 22:33, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Transliteration 

message: This article appears to be appropriate for ODP Russian Language category.
 Wikipedia - Russian Language - A collaboratively edited article covering classification,
 geographic distribution, writing system, sounds, grammar, vocabulary and history of the language.
-- sabre23t 04:00, 28 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  ODP 

message: It would be nice to have a source and/or precise details about the following, removed from the "Vocabulary" section:
* However, if you buy a CD-ROM English-Russian or Russian-English dictionary you will be able to translate about 800,000 English words into Russian and about 1,000,000 Russian words into English. Thus, one may conclude that Russian contains at least one million words. 
A. Shetsen 05:21, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  word counts 

message: I remove the following sentence:
Some Russian historians hold that the southern Russian dialect is self-sustaining, while Ukrainian philologists assert that the southern Russian dialect results from the influence of Ukrainian or the Old language of Rus'. 
What is a "self-sustaining" dialect? Or, conversely, one that is not?  Who are the historians and the philologists? What does influence have to do with sustainability?  The sentence seems meaningless, at least until explained. A. Shetsen 05:04, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Does that mean you can't explain your own sentence ("I'd love to know")? OK, out it goes... A. Shetsen 06:49, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal 

message: The sign used in this region is not derived from or in any other way connected with spoken Russian so I removed it from the related languages list. Qaz 04:48, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sign Language 

message: Ok, we now have a sound file for pronunciation of the language!
I also recorded a snippet of Pushkin that i found at History of the Russian language and put it up there by the poem, but then I realized; why stash the only proper sample of Russian that we have right now in a subcategory. How about putting it here instead? It's a tad shameless promoting one's own reading so blatantly, but I think we should really let people become aware of the Audio Template, and this is a good way to do it.
Oh, and do let me know if I mispronounced anything. My Russian can be rusty at times, especially when it comes to word stress.
From "Winter Evening" (Зимний вечер), 1825.  Modern spelling. 
Буря мглою небо кроет,
Вихри снежные крутя;
То, как зверь, она завоет,
То заплачет, как дитя,
То по кровле обветшалой
Вдруг соломой зашумит,
То, как путник запоздалый,
К нам в окошко застучит.
Tempest covers sky in haze[s],
Twisting whirls [in driven] snow,
Like a beast begins to howl,
Like a child it wails [anew].
On the worn-out roof it clamours
Suddenly upon the thatch,
Then, as though a traveller tardy
Starts to knock upon our hatch. (lit., window)
:Well, since no one has objected, I'll just put it up in the History and Examples-section. Peter Isotalo 13:33, Mar 26, 2005 (UTC)
::Excellent! That's the way we are taught to read poetry at school. Although few people do it that way, it is a representative example of pronunciation except one mispronounced consonant. In the 5th line the word "обветшалой" sounded like "ответшалой".
:::Well, a few early years of Soviet school does the trick, I guess. The botched "б" is now fixed.
:::Peter Isotalo 09:37, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reading of Pushkin 

message: I've started a page on The verb "to be" in Indo-European languages, which is intended to place the irregular paradigms in a historical context. Left to my own devices I will no doubt eventually get round to filling in the info on a broad range of languages, but I really can't do Slavonic.  It would be good if one of you who know this field could go over there, check everything, add a table of Slavonic paradigms and make any necessary comments underneath it. And then, if and when you are happy that it is useful to you, link it from the various Slavonic language sites. (My own area of competence, and the necessesity for starting the page in the first place, lie on the Germanic side!) --Doric Loon 21:07, 22 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Slavicist's input required 

message: Where was the number 285 million speakers obtained? This would make Russian one of the top 7 most spoken languages (it is usually reported to have more or less the same number of million speakers as Portuguese)... Paulo Oliveira 11:28, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Millions of speakers 

message: How about adding Transnistria? Unrecognised, true. But, for example, listed in the fact box of  Ukrainian... Gaidash 6 July 2005 00:02 (UTC)
:But of course :)! Ok, now seriously, I think it is a good idea if we clearly say "unrecongnized" next to it. -Irpen July 6, 2005 02:45 (UTC)
:: Hi Irpen! Actually, it was more of a joke, but whatever goes :) There may be more cons in Wiki than pros, for example Nagorono-Karabakh is not listed in the fact box of  Armenian and Somaliland is not listed in the fact box of Somali. Gaidash 6 July 2005 17:27 (UTC)
:::It should be stated only Region Transnistria, part of R. of Moldova. This is the truth and we must tell this to the people who read. User:Bonaparte
"Russian language is a featured article, which means it has been identified as one of the best articles"--Well this may be not true when it states several big mistakes. One is that for long time it was written the mistake: russian is language in Moldovan Republic of Transnistria. This does not exist. It is only a region part of Republic of Moldova. It is not internationally recognized as being a "state". So, for the time of speaking is just a part of Moldova. That's it. When it will be separate will say that is separate, but until then we must say the truth. -- Bonaparte  talk 15:40, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It is de-jure a part of Moldova but a de-facto situation is different and the article makes this clear. It explains that the "republic" is unrecognized. But to say it is just a region of Moldova just as any other one is witholding information. You do realize that, good or bad aside, the gov of MD has little say in what's going on in Transnistria, unlike in other "just another regions of Moldova". Maybe this should be reformulated, but to delete any mention of the hard fact is unproductive. --Irpen 15:45, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

text: I do recognize that there is both an uncertainly and controversy with Transnistria and this is obvious. There is no de jure uncertainly, though, as it is recognized internationally as a part of Moldova similarly to Kosovo being officially a part of Serbia. This does not change the situation of the ground that the local authorities refuse to recognize the central authority and pretty much act on their own. They made a decision to have Russian and Ukrainian as additional official languages to Moldovan/Romanian and this was possible only because the MD gov could not do anything about that. There are no "other regions of Moldova that could implement such decisions and this is notable. As I said, this could be reformulated but to leave the info out entirely is not a solution. --Irpen 17:07, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Official language of... 

message: :(артистичная ругань /ə.rtʲi.'sʲtʲi.tʲʆə.skə.jə 'ru.gənʲ/)
The pronunciation given seems to be for артистическая instead of артистичная.  I don't know which is the correct word.
80.229.160.150 11:15, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inconsistency 

message: Please verify this change by anon. mikka (t) 20:21, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  russian schools 

message: I've once heard that one third of the world's scientific literature is (or was) written in Russian (and one third in English and one third in other languages). Any truth in that? DirkvdM 03:51, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scientific literature 

message: It's given as ts. Shouldn't it be ʦ or t​͡s? Because it doesn't represent two letters, but the affricate specifically -Iopq 23:11, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation of Ц 

message: Is Russian an official language in Crimea or not? Someone seems to have removed that information from Russification article, and I cannot find a prove that it is an official language of Crimea anywhere online. Could you give any sources proving it or proving that it is not? Burann 11:13, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The article on Crimea says otherwise. Æµ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 20:47, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Crimea 

message: I've gathered a list of Russian & Polish roots in Esperanto (here), but I suspect that many of the affixes might be Russian as well. For example, the -ar- that denotes a collective, as in vort-aro 'dictionary', which is parallel to Russian slov-arj (though it's also parallel to Greco-Latin gloss-ary). Certainly the prefix pra- and the adverbial suffix -e appear to be Russian. Would someone mind taking a look at the lists of affixes (two lists here) and point out any that appear to be Russian? 
Thanks, kwami 01:24, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Russian roots in Esperanto 

message: "Russian language is a featured article, which means it has been identified as one of the best articles"--Well this may be not true when it states several big mistakes. One is that for long time it was written the mistake: russian is language in Moldovan Republic of Transnistria. This does not exist. It is only a region part of Republic of Moldova. It is not internationally recognized as being a "state". So, for the time of speaking is just a part of Moldova. That's it. When it will be separate will say that is separate, but until then we must say the truth. User:Bonaparte
: This is a political issue which doesn't even matter. People there speak it. Let's leave it at that. -Iopq 11:36, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Russian language is a featured article!? 

message: Please see the new page at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Cyrillic), aimed at 
#  Documenting the use of Cyrillic and its transliteration in Wikipedia
#  Discussing potential revision of current practices
—Michael Z. 2005-12-9 20:40 Z
::Italics in Cyrillics:
::A guideline on whether or not to italicize Cyrillics (and all scripts other than Latin) is being debated at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (text formatting)#Italics in Cyrillic and Greek characters. - - Evv 16:07, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cyrillic in Wikipedia 

message: The Russian phonology page has a tag at the end saying that the article doesn't cite its sources.  However, the Russian language page says that the sources that it has are also sources for other pages including the phonology page.  I found what is very likely to be the source for much of the unsourced phonology information but I don't know if I should put it on the phonology page or the language page.  AEuSoes1 22:08, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Phonology page 

message: It is peculiar that while Vietnam is included as an area where Russian is often known as a second language, Cuba and North Korea are left out! Cuba and North Korea are just as likely as Vietnam to have Russian speakers, as Russian is naturally foreign to all three countries. Perhaps someone could help fix the map, by including North Korea and Cuba. User:Le Anh-Huy
:There's a discussion about the map .  I'd also like to see the justifications for some of the included countries but just because Vietnam is communist doesn't mean that that's the main reason why there are pockets of Russian speakers there.  If ties to the Soviet Union were the reason for including Vietnam then we'd have to include every single country that has a Russian embassy and then the map would be meaningless. AEuSoes1 04:49, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Russian-speakers world map 

message: Something is really wring here. :Category:Languages of the Czech Republic, are you kidding? Why not :Category:Languages of the United States? Russians live even in Zimbabwe. IMO it can be "language of..." if its status somehow officially recognized by the correponding state, e.g., as a state language or the language if officialy recognized minority, or at least of significant minority. I suggest to trim the categories mercilessly. mikka (t) 01:26, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Overcategorization 

message: i can talk but i cant wright it down so i'll try to talk to you in english letters BUT in russian.
(also here are some meanings)
zdrāstrotre= formal version of hello
prēvet= hi
kak dēla= how are you? 
those are just some words i'll add some more later
:I'm not sure if your word lists will be of any value if they're not in Cyrillic, IPA, or some established transcription system.  I know that what you've written as prēvet is привет in Cyrillic.  Considering that you know how to speak Russian, I doubt that learning how to use Cyrillic and using a dictionary for ambiguous spelling will be too difficult for you.  AEuSoes1 20:21, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  can anyone here talk russian? 

message: Just some questions about the map:
* Did the map include every country that has a very very small russian community?
* Did the map take in consideration the number or the percentage of speakers?
* Verify the accuracy of these facts: Is Russian spoken frequently in south and central asia and in caucasia? Does it even exist in Turkey and Lebanon?
* The United State, Canada and Western Europe, have been known to have attracted a lot of immigrants and have formed a lot of communities, so every language is represented and every language map would include them. In order to be accurate you should only color the relevant regions were Russian is known to be spoken widely.
Finally I prefer that the map would be more accurate and precise (see the maps in French language and German language for examples. CG 20:07, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I've brought up some of those issues in the map's talk page.  I don't think the entire United States should be colored in if it's only spoken in a few communities on the east coast. AEuSoes1 17:09, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comments about the map 

message: The article say that Russian is spoken  in former Warsaw pact member states. Why? If so, we can say Russian is spoken in the USA - that is much more true.--Nixer 11:29, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Warsaw pact states 

message: Also cf. Moscow pronunciation of "-чн-", e.g. "булошная" (buloshnaya - bakery) instead of "булочная" (bulochnaya).
This extract is no longer correct. It seems to be old-fashioned Moscow pronunciation or alternatively St. Petersburg pronunciation. I dunno what to write instead. Sorry. =)
: no it's not. -- tasc talkdeeds 16:59, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Moscow pronunciation? We still say it that way all the way in Zaporizhzhya! -Iopq 21:51, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  To clarify, I meant "дощщь" and "дожжя." -Iopq 06:57, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  a bug 

message: The article claims that the letter Ч represents the [] sound. I think it's a mistake. [] is a voiceless alveolo-palatal affricate like Polish or Serbian ć, which sounds alien to Russian. Ч is much closer to the English [].
If no objection follows, I'll fix it later. --Yms 15:13, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The German article :de:Russische Sprache uses []. It's yet more accurate. --Yms 15:26, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I have objection.  There's no reason to think that a sound in one slavic language is alien to another.  Do you have a source? From my understanding, [] is the same thing as [].  AEuSoes1 04:33, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My source is simply my ear :) When I hear a Polish word with ć, I hear it's different from ч (OK, not quite alien, but distinctly different). When I hear an English word cheese, it's much closer to Russian... --Yms 11:17, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  First of all, the Polish ć is just more palatalized than the Russian counter-part. IPA is NOT a complete phonetic transcription, it's more along the lines of phonemic. You might say that the Polish sound is dorsal palatalization while the Russian is coronal and speak of phonetics or whatnot. Second of all, ch in cheese is palatalized because of the ee sound. The same thing in the word peas or leap. Those consonants are palatalized! It's just that we don't write it in IPA because palatalized English consonants are just allophones... and again, the degree of palatalization might be slight. Also, [] could be argued to be slightly palatalized while having a retroflex unpalatalized counterpart. So, my conclusion is: whatever. -Iopq 01:50, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you, this explanation seems to be satisfactory. But this phonemic stuff also explains why I feel that the Polish ć is not like Russian ч - it's because it usually corresponds to Russian -ть or Belarusian -ць, and what corresponds to ч is Polish cz... --Yms 04:30, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  True, but the Russian ч is palatalized so the Polish cz is pretty much the same sound as the Ukrainian "ч". So if you wrote "чь" in Ukrainian that would be the Russian sound. -Iopq 05:18, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I don't know what to tell you.  They sound exactly alike to me, but I don't speak either language.  I let the linguists with the papers and the books tell me.  AEuSoes1 02:24, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, they're definitely distinct sounds. To my Anglophone ear, "ć" sounds more like a very palatized "t" (as is sometimes the case with Russian -ть) whereas "Ч" sounds like a slightly palatized affricate "ch". I would say Yms transliteration is closer. My Serbian girlfriend seems to agree. --Yossarian 30px| 22:53, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ч=? 

message: An anonymous user added a pidgin language, supposedly a German-Russian one, called "Qwela" in this edit . Now, as much as it would delight me if there really WERE such a language (and named with that Q that's so un German or Russian...Khvela anybody?) I suspect it was a joke/vandalism...or at least a typo (Wela? The Q and W are pretty close pals), but you never know. I tried looking it up on the net, but there doesn't seem to be any reference to it. I put a citation note up, and until someone can confirm its existence or nonexistence that's how it shall remain. Anybody heard of this? --Yossarian 30px| 22:38, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I went ahead and deleted the entire line.  If someone comes up with a source they can put it back in. AEuSoes1 03:25, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  It's really misspelling and sould be "Quelia" in German (rus. квeля, Quelia: Qweля). It's not a real pidgin language, but some sort of German-Russian mixed speech. See :de:Deutschrussisch or :ru:Язык русских эмигрантов в Германии for more. So I think we'd put it back. Koryakov Yuri 08:01, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Qwela? 

message: Why are the palatalized consonants considered separate phonemes? Is there any difference between a palatalized consonant and a consonant + y?  i.e. is "ty" a palatalized t?  If so, isn't this just a cluster?65.102.39.98 19:10, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Palatalization marks a difference in the manner in which a consonant is pronounced.  A consonant + y would take longer to produce and would have separate articulatory gestures during the utterance. AEuSoes1 20:27, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

text: Palatalized consonants, in other words, are consonants pronounced differently. In English, s in seat is palatalized, while s in sit is not. Russian has those as separate phonemes. Plus, clusters are written differently as in съёмка. -Iopq 12:53, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Palatalization 

message: When we say "most widely spoken", do we mean wide geographically?--ppm 22:51, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Widely?