Talk:England national football team records and statistics

message: Steven Warnock's england career be 6 minutes long and Stanley matthews be 22 years? matthews didn't spend 22 years on the pitch  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.137.178.226 (talk) 12:01, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: How can..

message: Beckham did not score England's first goal of 2006WC, this was credited as an OG. Corrected. 
Ironick (talk) 11:43, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I suppose it's an interesting footnote, as it means that Frank Soo might not be classed as the first "minority" player. I'm not sure it's really worth listing as a separate record though. Actually, I'm not sure it's worth listing Soo either, since wartime football was basically just played to keep up morale, and doesn't have a great deal of significance. — sjorford++ 14:26, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Errors

message: Wasn't the youngest player for the English National Team Manchester Uniteds Wayne Rooney?
:It was, before Theo Walcott's debut a month ago. — sjorford++ 08:56, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Youngest player 

message: I don't understand
:Most goals in a match
:Howard Vaughton, Steve Bloomer, Willy Hall and Malcolm Macdonald, all 5
Shouldn't they be listed on the next item 'four or more goals? Steve Bloomer scored 14 or something, the context should be given. Jooler 10:43, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Altered to clarify. Bentley Banana 09:53, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Most goals

message: The appearances-per-club list I'd like to put in a table, as it'll make it neater, straighter and easier to follow. However, I have little or no knowledge of such constructions. Can anyone volunteer? Bentley Banana 09:54, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've now taught myself and done it. Bentley Banana 12:11, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Table

message: I think this page has strayed rather too far into the realms of original research - the starting eleven by caps table especially. Anyone else have any thoughts? Angmering 11:29, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Original research

message: User 86.157.72.16 has removed the entire "Non-white players" section. I take their point that it "seems slightly racist", but it was (to me at least) of interest, if only to realise how late some of the dates are. Is there a Wikipedia policy on this sort of subject somewhere? There is some sort of precedent in, for example, List of first black Major League Baseball players by team and date, but of course MLB was formally segregated until 1947. Rachel Pearce (talk) 19:28, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: "Slightly racist", i didn't realise those two words could be put together. Isn't that like "slightly dead". Anyway agree that section should be chucked. Interesting maybe in an article about diversity (or lack of) in football but not appropriate here. extraordinary (talk) 16:17, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Non-White Players" 

message: Does this list exist anywhere? Obviously the national team page contains the top 10 and this page contains many specific records but is there a list of all england goalscorers by goals scored or even the top 50? If there is can someone point me to it and maybe add a link to the main page. If not then i'm not necessarily advocating making one as it would be a nightmare to keep up to date! Cheers. extraordinary (talk) 16:58, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks to Ironick (talk) for pointing me in the direction of the specific page - http://www.englandfootballonline.com/TeamGoals/GoalsIndex.html - which is from the website at the bottom of the article that's been listed there for the past year... extraordinary (talk) 16:13, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  All England goalscorers 

message: I've just recalculated this and I make it 181 for Man United, and 174 for Spurs; if this is correct, then United have been ahead for a while.  I get to United's 181 as follows - Charlton 49, Robson 25 (of 26), Taylor 16, Scholes 14, Rooney 12 (of 21), Beckham 11 (of 17) Coppell 7, Rowley 6, Stan Pearson 5, Stuart Pearson 5, Edwards 5, Connelly 3 (of 7), Sheringham 2 (of 11), Ferdinand 2 (of 3), Wilkins 2 (of 3), Wall, Halse, Bradley, Ince and Richardson 2 each, Webb 1 (of 4), Spence, Viollet, Stiles, Kidd, Cole, and Brown 1 each. Spurs' 174 is: Greaves 28 (of 44), Woodward 27 (of 29), Lineker 19 (of 48), Smith 13, Chivers 13, Peters 9 (of 20), Sheringham 9 (of 11), Hall 9, Hoddle 8, Anderton 7, Waddle 6, Bailey 5, Osborne 3, Ramsey 3, Defoe 3 (of 6), Gascoigne 2 (of 10), Brooks 2, Seed, Hunt, Nicholson, Medley, Mullery, Mabbutt, King and Jenas 1 each. Stevew2022 (talk) 23:11, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Most goals from 1 club's players 

message: Hello. Does anyone feel, as I do, that the records at the top of the article should have a space between them? It's a bit overwhelming for the eyes trying to read them as they are, I found. I don't just want to jump in and do it, but I'm happy to if people agree. --bodnotbod (talk) 15:58, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Formatting - spaces between the first listing of records? 

message: Wayne Rooney - no dispute there but it is cited as against Liechtenstein on 10th Sept. 2003. He did score in that match BUT HAD ALREADY SCORED 4 days earlier against FYR Macedonia, a fact shown in the Wikipedia article on England's results.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.105.120.14 (talk) 22:18, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Correct - All the usual suspect websites agree. I will correct the article.  Thanks.  Stevew2022 (talk) 16:57, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Youngest Goal Scorer 

message: Why is Peter Ward listed as having the shortest career if Jim Barrett played for only four minutes?
Wilfried Zaha's only appearance was as an 85th-minute substitute against Sweden.
Tffff (talk) 14:54, 13 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: A couple of websites give Zaha's substitution at 85 minutes, and a couple (including englandfootballonline) give it at 84.  Can't find anything official on either the FA or FIFA's sites.  I'll add him as an 84th min substitution, with an 'active player' note.  As Jim Barrett's appearance occurred before substitutes were permitted, he could have returned to the field at any time during the game, and would therefore be listed as 'officially' having played 90 minutes. Stevew2022 (talk) 14:23, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

text: Martin Kelly's England career appears to be even shorter - his only appearance is as an 88th-minute substitute. Tffff (talk) 12:00, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shortest career 

message: Is Ricky Lambert's scoring with first touch in debut match worthy of note? Or are there others? Richard Avery (talk) 09:21, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Doubtful.  There are at least four instances of players scoring in the first minute of their debut match.  In fact, the first ever goal in international football, according to contemporary reports, was scored by Kenyon-Slaney, making his debut, in the first minute v Scotland in 1873. Post-war, Bill Nicholson scored after 19 seconds on his debut v Portugal in 1951, and Stan Mortensen scored in the first minute, also v Portugal, in 1947 (Portugal were pretty easy pickings in those days - Morty went on to score 4 in that game!). In recent memory, Kieran Richardson scored after 3 minutes of his debut v the US in Chicago. I can't find any instances of substitute debutants scoring as fast as Lambert (David Nugent was on 10 minutes when he scored against Andorra - that's the closest I could find).  If the record goes to anyone, it's probably Nicholson - first touch in 19 seconds. Stevew2022 (talk) 19:42, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

text: Just to clarify and expand on the above: there are conflicting reports on the goal order in the 10-0 win over Portugal in 1947.  Some authorities (e.g. englandfc.com) have Mortensen scoring in the first minute, and Tommy Lawton in the second minute, while others suggest Lawton scored first, after 17 seconds. (This is the record which appears as 'Fastest goal' in the main body of the article).  In this scenario, Mortensen's first is after 2, 3 or 7 minutes depending on the source.  None of this affects the Bill Nicholson goal, which seems to be clearly recorded at 19 seconds. (see e.g. the Guardian's obit):  "In May 1951, he was capped for England against Portugal at Everton, and scored one of his rare goals, within 19 seconds." http://www.theguardian.com/news/2004/oct/25/guardianobituaries.football. There's a goal by a sub debutant faster than Nugent but not as fast as Lambert.  Mark Chamberlain scored 7 minutes after coming on against Luxemburg in 1984. Stevew2022 (talk) 00:30, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ricky Lambert 

message: This page has been taken to task for failing to provide specific cites and references for most of the records contained here. My suggestion is that all of the records contained here are specifically factual. Even if they are not referenced as a record by any of the recognized sources, they can be determined with a knowledge of the appearances (and scoring activities) of every England player by a simple process. Is this original research? Or is it, as I would contend, simply representing facts which have already been presented on websites such as englandstats.com or englandfootballonline.com in a different way?  The record about most internationals missed in a career has been removed. I'll admit that was pretty esoteric, but it is fairly easily derived from players appearance stats.
I will continue to update the page after every England international (and leave that esoteric Carrick record off) but am only willing to put a single reference to the stats websites, not one for each record and how it was derived.
Stevew2022 (talk) 07:57, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: this needs referencing as per this and this. Without refs anyone could be adding any old tosh.--Egghead06 (talk) 09:38, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: This needs directly relevant sources. Readers are not expected to hunt through websites. Adding unsourced information especially about individuals goes against WP:BLP.--Egghead06 (talk) 07:05, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cites and references  

message: Would it be a interesting notto point out Scotland were the last team to beat England in the 19th and 20th centuries?
 Plus it is also true the last team to beat Scotland In those centuries was also England. JOEYTHEVIMSANTEPOET (talk) 13:09, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scotland last team to beat England in 19th and 20th centuries