Talk:Two Pints of Lager and a Packet of Crisps

message: Im going to create pages for the back-up characters.  JJH1992 12:20, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think we need separate pages for the minor characters. For the major character yes, but I think it's going a bit overboard doing it for the minor ones. Is there any real need? -- Halo2 Talk 22:00, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Backup characters 

message: Can someone (hopefully User:Gladboy who added the information) please provide a source of the series 7 information, and a source of the episode titles. Thanks -- Halo2 Talk 20:34, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have removed the title lists, (as stated in previous edit summary), but kept "Series 7 confirmed". A source is still need for this though. -- Halo2 Talk 18:31, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Series 7 info 

message: The articles for the individual characters are all restricted to a single paragraph.  It would not lengthen this article appreciably to simply copy all the character articles into their own sections in this article.  In addition to making the character information easier to find (a reader would no longer have to click through to ten individual articles), at least some of the character articles show up as unwatched pages, meaning they are at increased vulnerability to vandalism. LyrlTalk     C   18:12, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It used to be like that, until someone changed it all, including the minor characters (see above topic). I'll change it back tonight, and try and get pictures too. -- Halo2 Talk 18:27, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've gone ahead and merged them - hopefully this will work out until the character descriptions are expanded enough to need their own article. LyrlTalk     C   02:14, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Individual character articles 

message: I think the article lacks a section about the plot of the series, some kind of summary for each one of the 6 series, and maybe a separate article for the characters (both main and secondary ones, only in one article), with pictures on it. Also a section about the DVDs releases don't hurt I think.
By the way, isn't the title of the show Two Pints of Lager (and a Packet of Crisps) instead of Two Pints of Lager and a Packet of Crisps (the brackets are missing).
In summary:
*A synopses for each one of the 6 series;
*A separate article for the characters;
*An expanded DVDs releases section;
*A change in the shows name to include the brackets.
:Cheat.2.Win 03:02, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In the IMDb it takes the brackets Two Pints of Lager (And a Packet of Crisps), but after all, I think you're right, and as you said the "and" instead of the "&" is used more often, so it maybe be better to leave it like it is at the moment. Oh... and I'm working on the article/articles at the moment, so maybe the changes I've suggested may be done by myself. Cheat.2.Win 08:46, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  How could you do a series 1 synopsis? All the plot gets resolved at the end each episode in series 1 so it would just be a description of every episode  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.70.69.159 (talk) 16:09, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The article needs some expanding... I think 

message: Someone update all the other two pints articles.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mikeipedia (talk • contribs) 11:39, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please cite a source (there will be one somewhere) and edit the article. But if it's true, do you really think they'd replace the actor...? How would they explain it... -- Halo2 Talk 21:37, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: They'd just ignore the fact he'd look different same as every other time an actor is replaced. Can't find a source--84.70.112.64 16:29, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

text: That's astonishing, for an episode that was broadcast live on 13th January 2008. But your personal experiences are not a reliable source as per Wikipedia policy. It's called original research and is a big no-no. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 18:51, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ralf's left 

message: Ok, Jonny has gone. That is no reason to move him out of the cast list, because as a fictional character, he still exists in series 1 to 6. It's just that they're not being broadcast at present. An encyclopedia article shouldn't be confused with a blog, or real life. Unless anyone can make a case, based on Wikipedia policy or precedent for doing this, he has to stay. I've taken advice from the WP:Television project, and they don't do that. Neither should we. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 18:49, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Series 7 

message: The titles used in series 7 are the same as in series 6 (I assume, as I actually managed to miss the entire sixth series), and so still prominently feature Ralf as Jonny. Is that notable? U-Mos (talk) 14:54, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Not really, just cheapskatery, I guess. Can't see what purpose there is in mentioning it, however. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 14:57, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Title sequence - worth mentioning? 

message: I'd like to resolve the problems categorising episodes in a formal way. Reverting edits repeatedly doesn't help matters and the hidden messages aren't a good way of gaining a concensus. If we gain a concensus here, referring to it in the hidden message should be sufficient.
This is my two penny worth, feel free to agree or disagree;
To begin with, the word 'episode' can be accurately used to describe every production made in the whole series. There is no ambiguity with this word and because a production is different in some way to the average one does not make it any less an episode. There are currently 63 episodes of Two Pints of Lager and a Packet of Crisps. A special is, amongst other things, an episode which either appears outside of a normal series run, is either shorter or longer than the average episode, or does something 'special' that makes it stand out from the rest such as lampooning horror movies. There are 3 episodes that fall into this category.
# When Janet Met Jonny - A Christmas special which was broadcast seperately from the rest of the series which lampooned music videos.
# When Janet Killed Jonny - Homage to horror movies and didn't advance the normal plotline.
# When Jonny Met Sharky - Live episode (actually referenced by Susan Nickson in the Outtakes show as a special).
You could also throw the outtakes shows (which I believe there are more than one) into the category of specials, however this is a whole different discussion.
In my humble opinion, the field in the infobox should actually say: 
No. of episodes 63 including 3 specials.
On the other hand however, most other articles about sitcoms do not make reference to specials in the infobox, simply giving an episode count which includes them. For uniformity should we not do the same here?
Comments below please. ~~ Peteb16 (talk) 19:03, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Since Wikipedia:Television episodes doesn't actually define an episode (probably because it's felt unnecessary to do so), we have to look elsewhere. My Concise Oxford has it as 
The bolded words are problematical for our purpose and therefore make use of those sub-definitions unhelpful. So we are left with "incident in narrative; part of serial story". The former case, in our context, would apply, for example, to the scene of Jonny's shooting; the latter applies more generally and I submit it as the only plausible interpretation usable within the context of a television programme. The test, therefore is whether it forms part of the narrative. 
*"When Janet Met Jonny" is therefore excluded as an episode as it is an interpolated "prequel" and has never been listed by the BBC within the episode list of any series; if it had its proper place in the overall narrative structure, it would have been Episode 1 of Series 1. This extraneity is highlighted by its presentation as a sequence of, essentially, music videos.
*"When Jonny Met Sharky" is therefore included as it is not only part of the narrative sequence, but a vital part without which most of the events in series 7 would be inexplicable, and the only thing that takes it out of the ordinary towards being "special" (but not "a special") is its  recording live, which given the history of television is not that unusual.
*"When Janet Killed Jonny" is slightly more problematical, because we come up against that old bane of writing about fiction, canonicity. On the purely functional side, we have it as episode 10 of series 6, according to the BBC; we also having its narrative (at least initially) following on from the closure of the Archer in "Closing Time". Against, we have its wildly unreal nature and its ambiguous ending. Dream or not? Well, we just don't know. Given the lack of a reliable source for this, we must fall back on something, and my preference is to regard it as a bit like the "Last Night of the Proms"- part of the series, but different as it slightly blurs the usual format.
That's my take on it, anyway. Oh, and "something 'special' that makes it stand out from the rest such as lampooning horror movies" seems to be begging the question. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 20:02, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've noticed the BBC aren't particularly good at documenting episodes on their various websites, I think their exclusion of 'When Janet Met Jonny' is simply because it doesn't belong to a series, so doesn't fit within the series lists they've set up. Actually the episode does in fact follow on from the end of Schluballybub After walking out the door, Janet stops for a cigarette and then pulls out a photograph of herself and Jonny. That's where the flashback begins. The flashback ends at the point the same photograph was taken by Louise. Still staring at the photograph, Janet reflects on what she's remembered and (in voice over) sings the question "should I stay or should I go". So this episode cannot be a prequal as it's topped and tailed with the storyline as it was at the end of series 3. ~~ Peteb16 (talk) 20:45, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's just that there is an implicit assumption in the proposition that "lampooning horror movies" makes it "a special". Not that important, but I feel we need diverse input from other editors here. I suggest leaving it for a day or so, then perhaps seeking a third opinion, possibly from a TV project member. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 21:08, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I apologise for the misunderstanding but I wasn't trying to imply that it was a special just because it lampooned horror movies. More the fact that it became a horror story (as a nod/send up of the genre) rather than following the usual narrative or format of the show. I agree it wasn't made that clear above. I agree a third opinion would be helpful. ~~ Peteb16 (talk) 22:12, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

text: Would you regard When Janet Met Jonny as an 'episode' (albiet a special one) and include it in the episode count? ~~ Peteb16 (talk) 09:06, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think really we should just list "X episodes" in the infobox and not refer to "specials" there. For comparison consider A Very Peculiar Practice; two series of 7 episodes each, plus a later one-off "special" - the infobox lists just "15 episodes". I know some other pages for comedies (e.g. The New Statesman, Blackadder, etc.) do list "specials", but in those instances the demarcation is far more clear. Nick Cooper (talk) 13:00, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: So "No. of episodes 62 and 1 special" would be come "No. of episodes 63", do we all agree to this? ~~ Peteb16 (talk) 12:52, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm happy with that, --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 17:19, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Specials 

message: Or was that just rumoured  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.105.80.251 (talk) 22:26, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Nothing has been said. Best wait & see.  --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 22:28, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Was series 7 confirmed as the last series? 

message: Position in BBC THREE's ratings - Can this be clarified, what does it mean exactly ? Cheers --Realist2 ('Come Speak To Me') 15:28, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Also needs a source, otherwise it must go. And it's a bit strange to have these figures for only one Series. Are there others? And wouldn't it be beter merged into the Episode list as a separate columns, since there is little additional info in this table? --Rodhullandemu 15:39, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I would like to remove that section of the table, not only is it unsourced but i have no idea what its trying to say, what are the position numbers in reference to? Realist2 ('Come Speak To Me') 15:54, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Since it's up to the editor to justify, and this hasn't happened, it's gone until it's soured reliably. --Rodhullandemu 15:57, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure i might work on this article in the summer, this is one of my favourite programs. Realist2 ('Come Speak To Me') 16:08, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Series 7 - table of results 

message: Isn't it normal to have a section on critical response and ratings.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.68.228.211 (talk) 01:28, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Only managed to find figures for Series 6, Episode 1 ("When Jonny Met Sharky"), and they are set out in the list of episodes. --Rodhullandemu 11:19, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reaction 

message: In 2007, a seventh series was commissioned. Speculation began after the showing of the last episode in series six, which led many people to believe the characters have been killed off.
Eh? 80.195.146.94 (talk) 08:31, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Unnecessary unsourced cruft. Gone. --Rodhullandemu 13:13, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  What? 

message: Taking WP:MOSFICT as our starting point, all Two Pints-related articles should be written from an "out of universe" perspective; this means (1) we write an overview of the whole programme and (2) do not just rewrite the articles to reflect the current position. In particular (1) Jonny is a major character throughout six of the eight series (2) Timothy Claypole, overall, has so far had fewer appearances than Floella Henshaw, Munch or Kelly the Barmaid, so writing "out of universe" means that he is NOT a main character. Neither is Wesley. That's the way it is. Arguments based on what "other articles do" just shows how poorly they are written. --Rodhullandemu 22:18, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: So how do you account for both Tim and Wesley appearing in the title sequence of the last series? Your continued ideological objection to both is as incongruous as omitting David Tennant from the Doctor Who page would be. Nick Cooper (talk) 12:26, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Writing about fiction 

message: I believe that the page should be edited to reflect the fact that Two Pints will not be returning. The Two Pints website is no longer being updated, which to me suggests the show ended.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.15.87.56 (talk) 20:29, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The British Comedy Guide, which is normally very reliable in these things, is saying that there will be another series of the show... so its likely that it hasn't actually ended!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.139.147.109 (talk) 13:51, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Going back to the OP's last sentence: the Two Pints website hasn't been updated since the end of Series Seven. 80.177.217.162 (talk) 20:46, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  End of the show 

message: I've removed this because it breached out neutrality policy. It started by saying "Two Pints has polarized opinion"- which is itself unsourced, but would imply critics have been either highly enthusiastic or highly opposed. The section then cited only two sources, one of them not very reliable, in support of the latter camp, and the proposition that Two Pints is "generally panned by critics". Sorry, but two sources only can not support such a broad statement, I suggest that if this section is to be replaced, it becomes more balanced and better-sourced, unless there are really no commentators who have praised Two Pints. Rodhullandemu 15:51, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe that it's evident that there is fairly wide spread criticism of the show, I shall update the criticism section to include references from all the major UK newspapers, both good and bad.  You are failing to be neutral in this matter by disregarding any criticism.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.96.109.201 (talk) 17:13, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I am applying our neutrality policy. If you think that policy inadequate, please make a proposal to change it here. Rodhullandemu 17:16, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

text: Have you read WP:NPOV? Criticism sections are fine, as long as they are balanced, fair and supported by reliable sources. As already pointed out, this section (which I have removed again) fails by being overwhelmingly negative, and poorly-sourced. I also advise you read this rather than repeatedly replacing the section without providing proper sourcing and a balanced analysis rather than your own viewpoint. If the balance of sources turns out to be negative, that's what we go with, as long as we do so within the rules. Rodhullandemu 17:24, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Criticism" section 

message: Is there actually any justification for what seems to be a completely arbitrary split between the 2006 and 2008 series in separate "runs"? Nick Cooper (talk) 13:58, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, but there are plenty of series where you could make that sort of arbitrary distinction, based on major cast changes, an apparent longer break in production, etc., but commonly no such separation is claimed. Just about the only exception is Skins, but there the changes are obviously far more radical that merely Ralph Little leaving, and more importantly are clearly defined by the producers in the way that they are (i.e. First generation, Second Generation, etc.). What some Two Pints fans may think is neither here nor there. Unless someone can come up with clear evidence that the BBC itself divides the series in the same manner, we shouldn't be doing so. Nick Cooper (talk) 14:14, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  "First/second run" 

message: i would wish to edit some small changes to the article that need updating.
Riananthonysmith (talk) 17:42, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. — Bility (talk) 18:21, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Note User:Riananthonysmith has been blocked as a sock account; they are the reason this article has to be semi-protected in the first place. --Jezebel'sPonyobons mots 18:30, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request from Riananthonysmith, 9 May 2011 

message: i feel the page needs updating such as the news that creator and writer susan nickson left the series in 2009 and also the episode count has not yet been updated.
Rianwiki92 (talk) 00:28, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you give a source for this? Feezo (send a signal | watch the sky) 14:58, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

text: Not done - the request comes from yet another sock account of Rian13. --Jezebel'sPonyobons mots 15:23, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request from Rianwiki92, 24 May 2011 

message: The first episode of season seven was broadcast live with many little nods to the fact that they were on live such as Janet saying she had just been 'watching BBC 3 and you would not believe what i saw' or mentioning the exact time until the show after them.
86.4.172.205 (talk) 09:54, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request from 86.4.172.205, 24 May 2011 

message: The article needs updating the episode count has not been updated or the status of the show which has now ended.
90.218.208.174 (talk) 22:28, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: . Variants of this request have been previously denied. Please provide a reference to a reliable source. Feezo (send a signal | watch the sky) 05:59, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request from 90.218.208.174, 26 May 2011 

message: I didn't get the info I came here for. The 'Plot' section is in fact a (too long, IMHO) description of the development of the series. I think a short summary is needed, covering the following:
*who are the 'five twentysomethings' mentioned in the lead? Name, relationships with one another, character traits, roles in the stories?
*where does the action take place (I'm guessing it's a pub - called what? where, what kind? If not a pub, then where?)
*what style of comedy is it? character-driven, trad-sitcom, puns & one-liners, comedy-drama?
Anyone wanting to add this could look at the Peep Show (TV series), where this kind of info is provided for that series. Cheers, Squiddy | (squirt ink?) 07:12, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing... 

message: I feel the pages needs some updating i have taken note of the plot which i can make more clear for readers to get a sense of what the show is a about, also minor updates need to be changed to the characters episode count. I have all reliable sources for the information i will be adding and all sources will be added if i get a chance to update the page. I also have conformation that the series has in fact ended and will not be returning.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Twopintsfan (talk • contribs) 13:51, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Well if you do have WP:RS for it, go ahead. Not that I've seen/heard anything reporting that the show's been cancelled. U-Mos (talk) 15:11, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Note Twopintsfan account was blocked as yet another sock of Rian13. --Jezebel'sPonyobons mots 15:14, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Cancellation confirmed here. 212.137.36.230 (talk) 13:31, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The cancellation has already been noted in the article. --Jezebel'sPonyobons mots 14:09, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Updates needed and end of series confirmation 

message: The following coordinate fixes are needed for
The co-ordinates for Brindley Autos is in the North Sea!
It'd be nice if someone could address this.
—86.1.229.216 (talk) 18:59, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: — I've checked it through several different mapping apps and all seem to point to the same place on Brindley Street. You might repost this request with more information about what steps you're taking which cause you to end up in the North Sea. Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 20:37, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Coordinate error 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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