Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Middle-earth/archive1

message: Given the extensive series of articles on Middle-earth I was surprised to find no associated Wikiproject and an incomplete Wikiportal. Please join in and help to continue fleshing out these topics. --CBD T C @ 00:05, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

message: I cleaned up the information on the Middle-earth portal and created a standard portal link for it:
Do people think we should use a different image for this? Should the text below the image be something like 'Middle-earth portal' instead of the line from the book? Obviously, I'm trying to 'imply' it is a portal with the door image, but we could make it more explicit. --CBD ☎ ✉ 19:11, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The obvious problem with the Encyclopedia of Arda is that it cannot be edited by the general public and thus there is no way to correct its errors. To take the example you bring up... their timelines have the start of the First Age off by several thousand years. In different texts Tolkien put the start of the First Age at the creation of Arda or (more often) at the Awakening of the Elves. He never indicated that the First Age started with the first moonrise as Encyclopedia of Arda indicates. The terms 'First Age of the Sun' and 'Ages of the Sun' used by Encyclopedia of Arda appear nowhere in anything Tolkien ever wrote. Likewise, the claim there that Tolkien provided no dates for events prior to the first moonrise is simply false, as can be seen from the five thousand Valian Years of history preceding that listed in the Wikipedia Timeline of Arda article... taken from Tolkien's 'Annals of Aman' and 'Grey Annals'. The Encyclopedia of Arda is an excellent resource which I have often used myself for several years, but it isn't perfect and it can't be improved. Wikipedia's information on Tolkien is also not perfect, but it is improved every day. --CBD ☎ ✉ 11:41, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Portal Link 

message: I am sorry if this is the wrong place to ask, but I think a Tolkien expert should check whether this article is a copyvio from Morgoth's Ring. (It is also in need of cleanup if it is not; I found it by searching for the misspelling "Tolkein" which was in the nonsense that is in the page history now). If this is the wrong place to ask, can you point me in the right direction? Thanks, Kusma (討論) 01:34, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Good find. The text there is very close to that in Morgoth's Ring, but seems to be paraphrased throughout. I haven't found an exact quotation yet though there are alot of shared words. I think the information in this article could be vastly cut down and merged into Elves (Middle-earth). --CBD ☎ ✉ 02:09, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Elf children]] 

message: What's the standard format for dates in the Arda timeline? I've seen several: take the year 2931 in the Third Age (Arbitrarily selected - the year of Aragorn's birth)
*T. A. 2931
*T.A. 2931
*TA 2931
*2931 T. A.
*2931 T.A.
*2931 TA
*III 2931
Would it be productive/wise/possible/worthwhile trying to find consensus on this and implementing it throughout the project? Or am I making trouble?
--UrbaneLegend 11:45, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See here for previous discussion on this issue and Wikipedia:WikiProject_Middle-earth/Standards#Middle-earth_Dates for information on some common practices relating to dates and other matters. Of course, these are all open to discussion / change. --CBDunkerson 12:31, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem I have with using the initials is that the abbreviation for First Age and Fourth Age (and the Fifth, for that matter) are the same: F. A.  Of course, there's less written about the Fourth Age than the First, but and it would usually be obvious by context which age was being referred to, but if the timeline were extended it would cause problems. Sixth and Seventh would both be S. A., which already stands for Second Age. To avoid ambiguity, I'm in favour of the format: III 2931. Any thoughts? --UrbaneLegend 13:28, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See response to same question / continued discussion at Talk:Timeline_of_Arda. --CBDunkerson 14:52, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Date formatting 

message: If there is already some standards on this that I'm not aware of I apologize, but perhaps there should be some standards for usage of Tolkien's languages in articles.  i.e. Standard formatting for translations of words or phrases, and notation for the language a name or place comes from and definition when known, etc.
Any input?
ASchmoo 23:48, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I haven't seen any standards for this, but it sounds like a good idea. Given that most of the names in Tolkien's stories are given in invented or historical languages I don't think it makes sense to ALWAYS include the translations... there'd be dozens in some articles. Instead, I'd suggest having the translation only in the first sentence or two of the main article for each subject. As to format; something like, Forlond (Sindarin, 'north-haven'), could work. --CBDunkerson 01:31, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, clearly doing it for EVERY instance would be overkill, but I think it would be useful to do for a name or place in the article for that topic like you described.  The format you suggest looks pretty good, the other idea would be some kind of template so that it could be easily changed if needed, but I have no idea how that would be achieved.  ASchmoo 21:12, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good idea. I created a template at Template:Tolklang as a starting point for this. There's an example of using the template on the linked page. Let me know what you think and any changes / adjustments. Right now it will conditionally display up to four roots - offhand I can't think of any words / names which have even that many. Is the 'for=north lond=haven' format useful or would just 'north-haven' be better? --CBDunkerson 17:56, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That template looks good. I would tend to go with the second format you suggested, considering the mutations in sindarin change the elements it might be more confusing, but definitely good work.  ASchmoo 18:43, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Languages 

message: Just an announcement so other people know.  There's a new page called 'Things to Do', and you can find the link on the main page.  Thanks! 
I also like the idea of an announcement box, like Final Fantasy WikiProject has one here.  Anyone want to make it? —Mirlen 13:46, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I set this up and put in a couple of examples. --CBDunkerson 22:58, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Announcement

message: The J. R. R. Tolkien article is currently being considered for featured article status. --CBDunkerson 19:14, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's wonderful!  —Mirlen 19:46, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If the Protocols of the Elders of Zion id good enough for Featured Article status, surely Tolkien is.  216.40.234.174 14:26, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Featured Article 

message: What do you think? —Mirlen 23:12, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice idea. There are several users who regularly edit Tolkien articles who may never have noticed the wikiproject. Would just suggest tightening it up a bit. More 'please join us in building and improving Tolkien content' and less 'we need to do this and this and this'. --CBDunkerson 23:31, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So, you mean remove the descriptions of the links, or the links themselves? I don't want to remove the links because it'll help them see what link is link on the WikiProject home page because like you said, it's a bit confusing. Basically, I based it off Wikipedia Welcome template and the idea's from the SW WikiProject, so I didn't think of the idea originally, although I wish I did . —Mirlen 23:47, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, links and descriptions are both fine. Just thinking maybe a few less of them. Some of the listed items (e.g. accomplishments & collaboration) are new or not yet fully active. Might want to hold off on including them in a welcome advertisement until they are more active. --CBDunkerson 23:53, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, point taken. —Mirlen 00:37, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Here's the New member welcoming template :). —Mirlen 02:56, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Recruiting template

message: What do you think of having a Tolkien barnstar that Middle-earth WikiProject users can award?  (And no, we shouldn't have the Ring be our barnstar ).  I was thinking of the Phial of Galadriel.  Here are the several versions we can use: 1, 2.  What do say you about the idea? Yea or nay?  (Oh, and if anyone has other better ideas for the Tolkien barnstar, feel free to share the idea)! —Mirlen 01:39, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Tolkien barnstar