Talk:Suicide/Archive 3

message: Treatment
Treatment is directed at the underlying causes of suicidal thinking. Clinical depression is the major treatable cause, with alcohol or drug abuse being the next major categories. Other psychiatric disorders associated with suicidal thinking include bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, Borderline personality disorder, Gender identity disorder and anorexia nervosa. Suicidal thoughts provoked by crises will generally settle with time and counseling. For a person with strong or at least definitive family or community ties, urgently providing information about who else would be hurt and the loss that they would feel can sometimes be effective. For a person suffering poor self-esteem, citing valuable and productive aspects of their life can be helpful. Sometimes provoking simple curiosity about the victim's own future can be helpful.
This section seems to go into a bit of detail, without any refrence. The lack of reference is what primarily concerns me. The article seems already NPOV but, I would like any kind reference for the statements like "Clinical depression is the major treatable cause, with alcohol or drug abuse being the next major categories. Other psychiatric disorders associated with suicidal thinking include bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, Borderline personality disorder, Gender identity disorder and anorexia nervosa.". Anybody else have a view/reference? -- ×××jijin+machina | Chat Me!××× -- 23:24, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Treatment Section 

message: An encylopedic entry about suicide is not a place to present arguments for suicide that contravene basic ethics and values of our society. It is as if there were an article on . murder that were to justify or rationalize murder or serial killing. A reference or section on doctor assisted euthanasia might be appropriate as a type of suicide, but aiding or abetting or encouraging suicide in the U.S. and Canada and most of the world is considered criminal. Any reference to supporters of suicide should not be given an equal place in this article but should be viewed as an aberrant viewpoint. Anti-suicide! You bet.. It should be that... Completed suicide is a tragedy as most victims are ill, and part of their illness is that tragic impulse act. Beyond doctor assisted suicide for terminally ill people, or those facing a debilitating illness, suicide is a tragedy of unfathomable proportions. Szimonsays
Is it really appropriate to have a section about arguments against suicide on the main page, and have the arguments for suicide (or pro-choice, at least) hidden on a different page? Shouldn't these two sides be presented side-by-side?
I think it's the inherently delicate issue of this subject. Certainly there are philosophical arguments for suicide. From an encyclopedic stand point I see how a pro-choice stance should be presented to balance things out. A personal stand point is a different issue. --Dysepsion 20:11, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Is there an article or section on the voluntary euthanasia movement? I can't find it, and IMO it's needed. Andrewa 23:49, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree. voluntary euthanasia, there should be a short bit about it. I am actually POV against the org, but it does serve a NPOV. - jijin|machina 21:03, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Added a whole section about Pro-Choice and Pro-Euthanasia -- ×××jijin+machina | Chat Me!××× -- 03:10, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

text: The external link section is rather heavy on anti-suicide groups too. --Mucus 04:30, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV - This is becoming a clearly anti-suicide article 

message: Namely, add a cross-reference to biology:apoptosis.
In fact, each day 50 to 70 million cells take on suicide, unnoticed by the human that is made up of these
suicidal cells...
Second, a link to martyrdom or martyr and ritual suicide would also be very apropriate here.
Thanks!
* How does martyrdom include suicide? (edit: I do see how apoptosis and ritual suicide apply though. jijin|machina 19:28, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Add more cross-references to enable a more clearer view on "Suicide" 

message: A user removed "Northern hemisphere" from the epidemiology section in a para. relating to suicide in December/Christmas season...but this is not bias because Christmas/December is winter *only* in the Northern Hemisphere...environmental and thus, perhaps, socio-psychological conditions are different in the SOuthern Hemisphere. ~ Dpr 13:52, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bias? 

message: Perhaps some material (or a new topic) on the effect of suicide on family and friends - thoughts?
Rflynn1000 14:31, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, a section on "Social Effects of Suicide" would be good. ~ Dpr 07:50, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  No discussion on the effect on suvivors 

message: The current article gives numbers of what I think are suicides / population in several societies.
Also interesting would be the rate of suicides / (total deaths in the period).
--Error 21:27, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Percentages

message: Is this not POV? To be considered suicide, the death must be a central component and intention of the act, not just a certain consequence; hence, suicide bombing is considered a kind of bombing rather than a kind of suicide, and martyrdom usually escapes religious or legal proscription. There are only legal consequences when there is death and proof of intent. ~ Dpr 07:07, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV? 

message: Persons attempting or dying by suicide sometimes leave a suicide note--this is certainly relevant, but does it have to be in the head section of the article? ~ Dpr 07:12, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suicide notes 

message: Given the benefits of minimizing article length, can we strive to omit superfluous words? The etymology is important, but given that Wikipedia isn't Wiktionary, maybe we could take out "sui caedere" and simply say that the word "suicide" is from the Latin. Just a thought. ~ Dpr 07:17, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Etymology

message: With regards to the part that mentions the Islamic point of view, the following is indicated: "According to the Sunnah (life and way of the Prophet Muhammad), any person who dies by suicide and shows no regret for his wrongdoing will spend an eternity in hell" {emphasis my own}.  How can one show regret for suicide? Isn't that part of the reason as to why suicide is considered so heinous, that it removes all possibility of repentance? Just my $0.02 (canadian). --GNU4Eva 04:23, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know for sure what the above means but it is possibly for someone to regret a 'suicide' IMHO. It isn't that uncommon that someone may not be immedietly killed but may not survive the injuries. In the past for example, I would guess if you properly cut your wrists you'd probably be pretty much screwed but you would be consicious for few minutes at least. Nowadays, with modern communications and medical provided your conscious you could probably call for help and be saved if you were conscious. However there are still ways you would survive initially but still end up dying. Panadol takers don't usually die immedietly AFAIK but their liver is often destroyed so they will die eventually. Self-immolation may be stopped and the person may be taken to hospital and may even be conscious for a while but may not survive. I remember a story from a teacher about a student who drank weed killer. Not surprisingly, he didn't die immedietly but there was little that could be done (I believe his stomach etc were fried) so he did die eventually but he was conscious in hospital for a fair while (and indeed I believe he regretted it). All in all I think, there are a variety of ways someone can effectively die froma  suicide but have a chance to regret it. However potentially it is possible for someone to repent after death in the Muslim faith in any case Nil Einne 21:58, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confusing, re: Islam POV 

message: Is there a source for this?
"While the police do not usually have the authority to stop the suicide attempt itself, in the US and some other jurisdictions killing oneself is technically homicide"
I don't have a source off-hand to prove the point one way or the other, but it is my understanding that in (I think) all but two states the act of suicide is no longer considered a crime.  Also in almost every jurisdiction I can think of in the US at least, police routinely intervene in attempted suicides in progress in public places.
Salty Kid  talk]] 04:11, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources? 

message: Article Socrates states, "He [Socrates] was found guilty as charged, and sentenced to death by drinking hemlock." He did not commit suicide. Unless, that is, all acts of martyrdom such as Patrick Henry's and St. Stephen's (New Testament) are to be called suicides also. If this is true, why is a painting of Socrates displayed on this article? If I'm mistaken, please tell me. --Dpr 03:33, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: See Talk:Socrates#Socrates--suicide? Septentrionalis 04:23, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Socrates

message: Commiting Suicide is supremely depressing to the ones that loved you. It may Taint their mental state or quality, make them Severely depressed, suffer from anxiety, or do the same thing that killing yourself does. After doing the heinous crime that you commit apon yourself, your loved ones ask themselves if they were good enough, if they did something to make you hurt. They have this thought creep them for the rest of their lives.
:Thanks for the input, but, the talk pages for articles are not message boards on the subject in general. They are for discussing the article and changes made to it. :-) -WikiFiend90 05:23, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Hurting loved ones

message: How are we so sure the suicides in the Dunblane and Columbine High School massacres were to escape punishment?  It doesn't seem unlikely that there might be other reasons.
I agree, It might have been guilt reasons (You never know) MJN SEIFER 18:55, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suicide to escape punishment 

message: Does anyone think a Sucide in Literature page ought to be created, fit in the larger scheme of the page series? Thanks --Dpr 08:26, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Proposed section exists now, but what about spoilers?  Slac speak up! 20:13, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Suicide in literature

message: Is there any ongoing POV dispute? Hipocrite - «Talk» 15:54, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, I have issues with a lot of the language in the article. — Phil Welch 16:05, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Please propose a substantive, cited correction. Hipocrite - «Talk» 16:11, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

text: Assuming that you do not include religious or social perspectives on suicide in a section regarding medical perspectives on suicide, I will not revert them. Additionally, it takes 2 to edit war. Hipocrite - «Talk» 16:19, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

text: You can remove it if you want, just keep in mind that as soon as I have time I'm going to come fix all the neutrality problems and if anyone resists it's just going back up again. — Phil Welch 17:05, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV 

message: It seems to me it might be a good idea to reference some of the basic suicide statistics or at least link to  them on this page.  For instance, I've heard that over 1 million people commit suicide every year worldwide, which certainly helps demonstrate the magnitude of the problem.  I'll have to check my facts but several years ago I read that people in the mental health field had the highest percentage of suicides.  Mostly psychologist and psychiatrists if I remember correctly.  If true this would of course be quite ironic since they are supposed to be the experts at preventing suicide.  If someone else were knowledgeable in this area perhaps it would be better if they added what they deemed appropriate.  If not I'll take a stab at it :) --Jim 23:12, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  add some statistics? 

message: Doesn't this deserve a section with its own subarticle for itself? I mean, that is what a major component, but not the majority component, of suicides are. -- Natalinasmpf 03:27, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  suicide for honor 

message: I think there might be something to that. I've talked with ppl that have committed suicide who believed themselves so dispicable that their suicide could be the only act of integrity, or honor, they could perform. Sad it is, the pain that some souls carry.
A little tangental idea here as well: In posts I've read in my research on the causes of pedophilia, people who flame pedophiles frequently call for them to kill themselves. I'm wondering if such an idea should also deserve some attention, as it is a festering sore in the "collective unconscious" (for lack of a better term). It's in the back of many people's minds that pedophiles should kill themselves simply because of the potential for danger: sort of like it's their duty to do it (though many would deny them the "honor" that such an act would unquestionably deserve, sacrificing one's life to protect the good of others). Still, these ideas are all quite ludicrous; rediculous beyond outrage. However they are there, and as distasteful as they are, perhaps a look should be given to such things. 
Bringing these things into the open and trying to make a dialogue often brings accusation of being a ped oneself (good grief!). There are unconscious currents involve issues like suicide that havent come into light totally as yet, almost unknown or taboo, that may be obvious and common knowledge in 20 years.
Perhaps this isn't the right forum for this, I'm kind of think/writing out loud. But I'm interested in the ideas people have that seem taboo or un-PC or at least mildly taboo to speak of. I think Wikipedia is a good forum for informing people of things that are rather "unconscious" as it can refer to little known scholarship. It might just help lance and heal a wound that would otherwise fester and explode in some awful manner, such as at columbine. 
Hope there's something useful here. If not, just move on and let it slide up the queue. --DanielCD 03:55, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Suicide as a duty? Response to the above: a Psychological aside

message: The see also section is getting fairly large and unorganized. Should it be in alphabetical order? Also, maybe some of the terms can be moved into the actual suicide article? Gflores Talk 19:56, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  see also section 

message: Shouldn't some information from other related articles be incorporated into this article? For instance, some information about the types of suicide, views towards suicide, history of suicide, etc should be added with a  template linking to the main article? I'd be willing to help do this, I would just like to hear if this is a good idea or not. Comments? Gflores Talk 08:05, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No comments? I just noticed that this article had previously been [very long and was subsequently split up. Although I agree it was long, I now think this article is neither complete nor organized in the best way. Would people be against some restructuring? I'll work on an outline later tonight. I would appreciate some feedback. :) Gflores Talk 00:09, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: merge some info

message: "If you are in suicidal crisis, call a crisis line and talk to someone about it. In the United States, you can call 1-800-273-TALK or 1-800-SUICIDE to reach a trained counselor near you."
I don't think WP's aim is to recommend people talk about suicide on the phone. Moreover, phone numbers are not weblinks. Also, I see no reason why anti-suicide (i.e. POV) links should be displayed first. Apokrif 12:20, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm inclined to agree. The line doesn't deserve to be here. The article contains already contains links to suicide prevention and crisis hotlines; those links and phone numbers, especially ones that are specific to the U.S., are not needed in this article. They already exist in the aforementioned articles. I think the only Crisis line website that should exist in the external links section is befrienders which gives a list of crisis hotlines around the world. Westfall 17:37, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

text: I agree that the original wording was out of place for Wikipedia - but I don't think it's good to phrase it as "according to some people". I've reworded it to avoid the whole should/shouldn't debate altogether. Let's stick with stating the simple NPOV fact that crisis lines exist which such people can call. Mdwh 23:21, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Always carefully verify that "help lines" are not being run by Scientology. No kidding. 100% serious. AlbertCahalan 04:48, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think crisis lines enchance the article at all. We should remove them all. Let suicidal people die. Skinnyweed 05:00, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV in External links 

message: A new layout for Suicide. Post comments below.
 I. Terminology
 II. Motivations
 III. Types of suicide 
 IV. Prevalence
 V. Causes
 VI. Methodology
 VII. Evolutionary explanation
 VIII. Medical views
    A. Prevention
    B. Treatment
 IX. Legal views
 X. Religious views
    A. Buddhism
    B. Christianity
    C. Hinduism
    D. Islam
    E. Judaism
 XI. Cultural views
 XII. Philosophical views
    A. Arguments for suicide
    B. Arguments against suicide
 XIII. History of suicide
 XIV. Suicide in pop culture
 XV. see also, sources, etc stays the same
things to mention under a section (which one?), see also or create a section for it
*parasuicide and self-harm (types? or own section?)
*motivation - why people commit suicide and why people who are suicidal don't commit suicide (created new section)
*Population differences and high risk groups (under prevalence)
*Impact on others (?)
*treatment (possibly under prevention)
*List of songs about suicide / List of films about suicide (pop culture)
*List of suicide sites (methods?)
things on template
**suicide watch (under prevention or treatment)
**suicide note (?)
**famous suicides (history of suicide)
I've attempted to create an outline. Should I add or remove a section? Reorder them? I would appreciate any comments. Gflores Talk 20:39, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I started consolidating all the information back into one article, but generalizing it a bit more so it's not as length as it was last year. My rough draft. It's just my attempt, it doesn't need to be used if there's opposition. I was planning on researching via some books at the library, but haven't had time... I also had difficulty with the motivations/causes sections, maybe someone can improve on that and fill in the remaining sections. Comments are also welcome. Gflores Talk 15:14, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposal

message: What if some people would rather wish to find resources for committing suicide?  Would Wikipedia be sued or legally tried for allotting resources that give persons with suicidal inclinations different methods for ridding the world of themselves?  It's entirely possible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.216.236.215 (talk • contribs) 
"Statistics have shown that 4 in every 10 people, who think about suicide, finally do commit."  There should be a source for this quote, or it should be removed.  It is quite subjective, and really not even close to fact.  Adam Gamradt 19:23, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Resources for dealing with suicidal thoughts" should be updated, perhaps 

message: Was directed to talk page, I made the removal of suicide prevention hotline numbers because of same issue at German wikipedia. While not relevant, that reasoning should apply here too. The argument, in short, is that phone numbers for suicide prevention are advocating a point of view just as offering links to Howto suicide at the same position. The difference is entirely a moral one, and wikipedia does not endorse life, death or any kind of moral. I don't think wikipedia should suggest, even implicitely, 'the reader' (there is no NPOV notion of 'the reader', from abstract NPOV reasoning, there is no 'reader') to take a certain decision. Wikipedia is an encylopedia, describing what suicide *is*, not give advice on what could be done about such a condition. --Rtc 04:08, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with your removal and Westfall's logic. A hotline has no place here in the main article, as it just presents information. You don't see Encarta or Britannica having phone numbers in the middle of their suicide entry. Besides, we have Suicide prevention on the template sidebar. Gflores Talk 05:49, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Advocation of suicide prevention 

message: Why has this articles taken a big chop from a few months back? For instance, compare now to early Jan. Skinnyweed 21:48, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reduced content 

message: I have added two subheadings: 'suicide methods' and 'suicide prevention' in order to categorise the mass of links that is there. Skinnyweed 23:52, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Messed up links 

message: I think this is a redundant section as we can add limitless amounts of books here so it will get bigger one by one as people think of more books. I would rather have a subarticle of "Suicide in popular culture". Skinnyweed 01:30, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Suicide in literature" heading 

message: You cannot treat patients with bipolar disorder by chemicals only. You need to get inside their heads enough to know if they are actively suicidal or merely wishing death. Most of the times they are not active, but while you are in session with a patient, they might be enough glad to talk to someone about their condition, or feel compelled to talk about their condition to either deny it, belittle it, or in some cases actually enlarge it (in which case you should treat it as a real case also). However, in any case there is never for the therapist or the patient a case where it's "trivial." People seek help because they have issues. Helping a bipolar suicidal person to find reasons to live (or atleast things to life for) (even though they will remain bipolar) is better than telling them you can't help them. Often just talking to then helps, and if they don't want to talk, just understanding, just asking how they feel, and not condescending, but only giving nudges if the patient speaks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 91.152.233.202 (talk) 00:25, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bipolar Suicide 

message: Does suicide have to do with euthanasia ? If so, in which respect ? If not, why not ? -- I hope to get some answers from you readers, and I will come back later on why I ask this question on this discussion page. Thank you for you contribution in advance. Hans Rosenthal (ROHA) (hans.rosenthal AT t-online.de -- replace AT by @ ) (08062006)
:Euthansia is suicide. Skinnyweed 06:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  A question to the readers of this talk page 

message: Erm, shouldn't we really have a section, quite near the top of the page, for people to SEEK ADVICE if they are feeling suicidal? You can try to be as professional as possible, and I know this is an encyclopaedia, but shouldn't we try a little compassion? It sounds cliched but it might save a life or two? Spunko2010 00:40, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This has been addressed in the discussions above. As usual, we describe different points of view and give links, so people who are looking for advice about how not to commit suicide should find it easily. Apokrif 14:36, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help for suicidal People 

message: I think that the listing of "Unwanted homosexuality" as a cause for suicide is offensive. I understand that Wikipedia intends to show all points of view, but surely the place for this is in the articles on homosexuality, not those on suicide. Every time I've looked for "unwanted homosexuality", it shows up in the context of religious types claiming they can "heal" gay people. I strongly feel that neutral language, such as "unresolved sexual issues" is a much better way of addressing this. If anyone can come up with better wording, then feel free.
--Orpheus 08:21, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Unwanted homosexuality" 

message: This doesn't really fit and its rather a long and unwieldy addition to the causes of suicides, so I'm removing it until we can get some good critical citations. Perhaps a suggestion as to which category it should belong to would be helpful too, since it does not seem important enough to merit its own entry
:*Poor Education — There have been increasing numbers of reports  of teenage suicides due to their school, lack of freedom, stress of homework, and exams. Often dropouts commit suicide  due to having a poor education. 
Mucus 01:19, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations Needed 

message: "Religious reasons (e.g. many suicide bombings in the Middle East have been attributed to Islamic fundamentalism)" - how accurate is this? A recent detailed study by Professor Robert Pape of the University of Chicago suggests that religious suicide bombers appear mostly to be driven by nationalistic objectives: "what over 95% of suicide attacks around the world [are about] is not religion, but a specific strategic purpose - to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from the territory that the terrorists view as their homeland or prize greatly"
Rbreen 21:52, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Religious reasons 

message: I'm finding myself unconvinced posting suicide prevention numbers and info would be a violation of NPOV.
If someone were in the path of a hurricane, we would direct them to resources for finding out if they needed to evacuate, and no one would suggest that this was anti-hurricane and that NPOV required we not discriminate against those who believed they had a moral obligation to die in their homes.
It seems this isn't any different.
I'm also seeing a lot of--non-neutral hostility toward those who would try to prevent suicides.  Surely that is an NPOV?  If we can't include prevention information, the least we can do is stick to strict factual information.
The March proposal for a re-org makes much sense to me, and would also make the page a more useful place to find information. Janni 18:41, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In Tropical cyclone I see no POV, and no emphasis on how to escape from hurricanes. The article currently has a section "Impact of suicide on family and friends" and many links to support groups. You can add info about the action of support and prevention groups. Apokrif 16:55, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is suicide prevention info in fact inappropriate? 

message: As I read the article on suicide, the article came across as weak and misinformative. In another part of the discussion section, a person mentioned how the article lacked a sociological point of view on suicide. I agree strongly with this person, however, simply adding the sociological point of view would not fix this article. The reason the article on suicide is weak and misinformative is because it fails to approach suicide in a way sociology(as well as psychology) does- from a scientific point of view. 
The only way to effectivly cover somthing broad like suicide, is to do it in a systimatic, orginized way. The purpose of an article is to provide information in order to help the reader create an understanding of the subject that he or she is reading about. The article on suicide, at best, is a bunch of various facts and perspectives on the issue. 
I am not sure of an optimal way to approach this subject. Mabye separate articles presenting suicide from sociological and  psychological point of views should be created with a central, more general article on suicide that points to them for further detail. Mabye I am alone in my opinion, but I honestly believe this article needs an overhaul. Any suggestions, comments, or opinions are welcome.
Lucky2bchucky 16:10, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The article needs to be reorganized. 

message: Can anyone think of a good way to limit the size of the suicide-in-X lists? The film one has been expanding quite quickly lately.
Orpheus 02:40, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good question. At the very least the film one needs to be trimmed. I'd do it but I'm not very knowledgable about films. Angrycrustacean 07:11, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lists 

message: I've removed the sections on suicide in literature and movies; they contributed nothing to the article.  They were just incomplete lists of books and movies.  If the article is going to have a section on these things, they should have a goal (such as talking in some amount of detail on highly relevant examples of literature containing a suicide theme) rather than just being lists. —Cleared as filed. 03:38, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Literature and movies 

message: I've come to the conclusion that the whole page needs a complete rewrite.  In parts it's poorly written, poorly sourced, poorly organized, and contains a great deal of irrelevant, factually false and POV information, original research, and trivia.  Here is the proposed layout for the rewrite: 
*Introduction (as is)
*Terminology (include short definition of suicide, first section of "parasuicide and attempted suicide" more or less as is but adapted to be lead-off, add "murder-suicide" and information about suicidal ideation and suicide notes)
*Suicide methods (as is)
*Reasons for suicide
**"Causes of suicide" section (basically as is)
**Suicide and mental illness (new section, including parts of "parasuicide and attempted suicide")
**Epidemiology (as is)
**Other reasons (combines "defiance and protest" and "military suicide", abridged)
*Impact of suicide (as is)
*Views on suicide
**Medical (as is)
**Cultural (new section; links to main article)
**Religious (new section; links to main article)
**Debate over suicide (as is)
SonoftheMorning 16:56, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rewrite 

message: What do you call those? For example (if you've seen it), in "A Few Good Men" when Col. Markinson shoots himself. These aren't ritual like seppuku. Are these classified as just regular suicides? --The Dark Side 03:36, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: More or less.  Killing yourself to avoid shame is not particularly unique or special.SonoftheMorning 11:54, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Honour suicide 

message: We seem to be getting a lot of IP addess vandalism on here recently, does anyone think it's worth asking for semi-protection on the article? I'm relativley new around here, so I'm not entirely sure what level of vandalism is considered necessary for semi-protection to be an option. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Eve Hall (talk • contribs) 14:30, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The current level of vandalism is very low, not worth worrying about. It gets reverted pretty quickly. Orpheus 15:27, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, fair enough!  Eve 17:38, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protection? 

message: Contradiction: "National suicide rates sometimes tend to be stable"; "National suicide rates, apparently universally, show an upward long-term trend."
Citations with insufficient detail: "Australian Bureau of Statistics, 1983; Lester, Patterns, 1996, p. 21"
Unclear: The sentence beginning "For example, the 1975 rates ...". Nurg 21:02, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  National suicide rates - contradictory and unclear 

message: While this article affirms that "the practice is fairly common, occurring in approximately one out of three suicides...", the Suicide note article says "but statistics show that the majority of suicide victims do not leave notes; in some countries, fewer than 10% of suicides are accompanied by suicide notes". Just warning whoever looks after these articles. Simoes - http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usu%C3%A1rio:Simoes —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 201.47.34.200 (talk) 21:47, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suicide notes contradiction 

message: I've started working on a subpage called User:Wl219/List of university student suicides in my userspace. I intend to link it eventually to List of suicides when it's more fleshed out, but comments are welcome. Wl219 01:19, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: suicides at universities

message: The article makes interesting points about the differing rates of suicide by country around the world, and states that the rate of suicide to homicide is 3:2 in the USA. I want to know more. There should be a map or a table of suicide rates by country and by age and sex if possible. I strongly believe that the suicide rate in the United States is higher than Americans realize and that this is a fact the the country does not own up to or care to look at and admit. Or, a link to a separate article on 'suicide rates' should be supplied. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.178.36.234 (talk) 21:25, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, here's a  by WHO. As you can see, there are too many countries to fit on the table without disrupting the article structure. MahangaTalk to me 04:21, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, looks like we have a table after all in a separate page. List of countries by suicide rate. Hmmm... I'm thinking of putting a table of the top 10(5?) countries with the highest suicide rate on the main page. MahangaTalk to me 04:26, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I added the table now. I was thinking of adding the rates for the most populous countries, but decided against it. MahangaTalk to me 15:31, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suicide Rates 

message: While this doesn't fit the classical definition, I know people who have committed suicide in this way.  Bo-Lingua 03:24, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Passive Suicide 

message: I think this small section deserves its own main article - I've created a redirect, but the subject certainly has such scope to qualify for its own article. While I'm here, could I request someone actively contributing here please expand the lead section a little - even one paragraph would be enough. I'm looking to summarize the topic in death but the lead section is only a definition. Richard001 01:37, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Military suicide