Talk:Marsh Arabs

message: User:Evanemak argues that since Madan (people) and Marsh Arabs cover the same topic, the two articles should be merged. I have reformatted it from a move request to a merger request. --Stemonitis 11:39, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Suggested merger

message: The cited article by Hamid K. Ahmed draws a very vague line between the ancient Sumerians and the Marsh Arabs. He writes: Some theorize the Ma'dan might be the descendants of the Sumerians, due to similarities they share in their primitive way of life.
However, this is an extremely speculative statement, without hard evidence. Ahmed writes: In his film Cradle of Civilisation, Michael Wood describes some recognizable designs that are seen in Sumerian carvings 5000 years ago. This is anything but scientific evidence.
Claiming Sumerian ancestry has been fashionable among many peoples. It is usually motivated by the desire to extend ones own glorious history into the depth of millennia, but, no, it cannot be taken serious and should not be presented as factual in an encyclopaedia.
The Sumerian language has been extinct for almost 4 millennia. Already around 2600 BC - more than 4600 years ago(!), they lost their dominance of Mesopotamia to the Akkadians. 
Therefore the phrase "it is believed" should be replaced by much more cautious language (if not stripped altogether), the above wording "some theorise" probably being a good choice. --Johannes Rohr 21:50, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There are many sources which show the links between Marsh Arabs and ancient indigenous inhabitants of Mesopotamia, which is an issue for anthropologists, not scientists (we are talking about humans and civilisation here, not test tubes) and you can do a Google search to find them. Also there are two sources there, and I can put many more if needed. Marsh Arabs are not "motivated by the desire to extend ones own glorious history into the depth of millennia" as you would like to claim. In fact they are the least nationalistic of peoples in Iraq (in fact they have never even been very politically organised) and have been one of the most persecuted groups there, having been permanently displaced from their natural habitat by Saddam. Khorshid 22:36, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I went through most of the links you provided (some where unavailable for various reasons). Most were non-scientific. And there was not a single study among them, that specifically supports your case. They use language like "it is thought", "it is believed" or "The culture of the Marsh Arabs as we now know it is, in a sense, the heir and descendant of the Sumerian culture." etc. This is all extremely vague and by no means the same as biological descent, as the phrase "direct descendants suggests. I firmly believe that it is virtually impossible to proof descent from a society which has been gone for almost four millennia. Please provide hard facts: Is there any specific reputable scientific source, that supports this extremely bold claim? --Johannes Rohr 22:09, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link to Sumerians 

message: I have expanded this article very substantially over the past few days with referenced material, added an infobox, restructured it, etc. - hopefully it will be a bit closer to B-class now. Svejk74 (talk) 21:56, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment

message: This is, as commented above, a fringe theory at best - much like Heyerdahl's similarly speculative writings about Easter Island. We need to balance this view with the corresponding (and indeed, probably mainstream) view as represented by Thesiger, noting the heavy Bedouin influence on the Marsh Arabs. Their customs are fundamentally those of the desert nomads - not those of Sumeria, although there are possibke links in terms of housebuilding.Svejk74 (talk) 11:26, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: 'Sumerian' links

message: It looks to me taht the addition of correctly sourced material by Svejk74 is perfectly proper and its reversion by Izzedine is not justified and in fact is edit warring.  Articles shoudl be build by consensus, not by reverting things that you do not agree with. Jezhotwells (talk) 23:28, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: 3rd opinion

message: What about Autonomy for Marsh Arabs?--Kaiyr (talk) 11:06, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Autonomy 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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message: Shroogs are people from indian origin and came from the east and populated not only the marshlands but all of southern Iraq and some parts of the capital
They were hated for years especially under baathists and abbasids
They are seen mostly as Ignorant traitorous brown people
And there population was about 25% under baathism but went up to nearly 50%
After 2003
They are hated by the rest of the population of Iraq and only a few of southerners are actually seen as good people 37.239.193.14 (talk) 09:53, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shroogs are also referred as southerners 

message: It seems odd that "Ma'dan" is identified as a pejorative exonym several places in the article but is used throughout as the standard word for these people. In the absence of contrary information, I suggest replacing it with "Marsh Arab". 2001:569:BF0E:A900:B8D6:2C4F:26C7:E693 (talk) 15:01, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Marsh Arabs" vs "Ma'dan" 

message: The main photo used in this article is irrelevant and does not depict marsh arabs, their style of dress, or their lifestyle. The old photo of a girl infront of a straw house was much better. 170.223.207.1 (talk) 15:31, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  The article picture has nothing to do with marsh arabs 

message: Please change the article to Maadan because it is their actual name and the Marsh Arabs are an Orientalist name by some Westerners. DoingTheNeedful (talk) 18:57, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ma'dan is their actual name 

message: Note that Marsh Arabs have no relation to Zut, Gypsies, Kawliya, or South East Asia. Those are just baseless claims made with sectarian and racist agendas.
The biggest two tribes in the governorate of Maysan are Albu-Muhammed and Bani-Lam.
1- Albu-Muhammed are descendants of Sheik Mohammad Al-Azawi who emigrated from the governorate of Diyala to Maysan in the year 1741 AD. Source: "موجز تاريخ عشائر العمارة" by Muhammad Baqer Al-Jalali  P.58.
2. Bani-Lam are descendants of Sheik Barak who emigrated from Mount Amil to Iraq, Maysan. Source Source: "موجز تاريخ عشائر العمارة" by Muhammad Baqer Al-Jalali  P.11.
It is also worth noting that many genetic studies have proven that Marsh Arabs have the highest concentration of haplogroup J1 in the world. J1 is the Arabian haplogroup and it is not present in India. So how can Marsh Arabs be of indian decent when they have been proven to be pure Arabs?!
Source: Al-Zahery, N., Pala, M., Battaglia, V. et al. In search of the genetic footprints of Sumerians: a survey of Y-chromosome and mtDNA variation in the Marsh Arabs of Iraq. BMC Evol Biol 11, 288 (2011). https://doi.org/10.1186/1471-2148-11-288 Ya'rub98M (talk) 13:00, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Marsh Arabs just Arabs