Talk:Tikal the Echidna

message: Ehehe...might I suggest we edit the height?  I have no problem believing her "glowing ball" form is small, but I really don't think Tikal herself is only 3 inches and a centimetre tall!  Aren't all the other (non-human) main characters roughly 2-3 feet tall?  She's pretty close in stature to the rest of them.  --L T Dangerous 04:40, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: My point is, "either" isn't really the stuff of fact.  We could really do with finding out for certain.  And I don't have a problem with the mother thing if it's true, I was just wondering if it was canon or not.  --L T Dangerous 13:51, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: old comments

message: You know, this article needs more pictures.  I have some ideas, and if anybody knows how to get it, please do so:
1) Near the comic book section, there should be a comic book picture of Tikal.
2) There needs to be a Sonic X picture of Tikal near the Sonic X section.
And if you can't get either of them, please attempt to get at least another picture and put it somewhere in the article that matches.
Also, should the facts section be called trivia instead? Or should some of it go to a fact section and the other go to the trivia section? 
By the way, could someone please add Tikal to the Sonic the Hedgehog character section?  She should be part of the good guys! --anon
Wow, great job with the article. In my opinion, "trivia" is a useful catch-all term. Oh, and if you're suggesting adding her to the template, I'm not sure that's wise. She just hasn't appeared in enough games to warrant it. -- Supermorff 15:19, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey, this is ScarredSun from Sonic the Hedgehog Information Treasury; regarding that picture, more info can be found on it at Sonic CulT. The Sonic Official Art Archive has the highest-res of it, though. - ScarredSun 17:53, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Pictures

message: :image:Tikeyes.gif
Well, it saved as a GIF file.
Now...would you mind explaining to me about this pic!? 
:>x<ino 15:56, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems to be a picture of Tikal blinking but why is that needed for the article? Jedi6-(need help?) 16:02, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

text: >x<ino 17:36, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Oh yeah, I don't know why it's black and white.  Well, she is supposed to be a stone carving, so since it's made out of stone, it might be black and white (since stones are grey) that way...or is it? --71.104.187.141 19:02, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

text: >x<ino 21:04, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Yes Jedi6-(need help?) 02:43, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

text: BTW, does anyone know if Tikal's Japanese name is correct? --71.104.187.141 03:03, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

text: >x<ino 09:14, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

text: >x<ino 20:19, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Done. See it here. By the way, in the Mozilla Firefox web browser, the text on the Sonic Pinball Party GIF is cut off, so it look like it says "Tika in SPF garr". Oddly, it displays correctly with Internet Explorer. -- RattleMan 19:19, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

text: There isn't any way you can change the text so that it works...it'll be cut off anyway. Oh well, not a big problem... -- RattleMan 23:15, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Gif

message: The Japanese for the title was computerified garbage, and I took the liberty of fixing it according to the information on Sonic HQ.  I don't know if it's even correct to put in a Japanese name here or whatever, but I *did* clobber the Sonic HQ reference (mostly because I don't know where to put it or if it even should be there), and would like for someone else to go take care of it if they so feel it to be incorrect.  However, if the name ティカル is indeed correct (easily verifiable for someone who actually played in Japanese), then it should be ... rather common knowledge that it would be pronounced "tikaru" and Sonic HQ shouldn't be sourced for something like that. Thanks! -68.100.68.23 21:41, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Japanese 

message: Does anybody know any reliable sources?  According to the CVG Peer review, they're mostly fansites...Although I do think those fansites are correct...So does anybody know any?  These are the most reliable ones I got and I don't know what other references are needed. --71.105.3.211 21:41, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I guess I'll just keep these seven references.  Besides, I saw an example article just have two references before, and I do have some reliable ones. --71.104.180.139 18:32, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: References

message: Once the CVG Peer review is archived, does anybody think this article should be a good article?  I do! --71.118.83.254 06:57, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think I'll add it as a good article soon. --71.104.190.42 20:22, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Good article

message: I removed the love life section because it is all speculation with no real evidence to back it up.  I'm sorry if it took a lot of time, but it's just not verifiable.  I actually was going to put something similar to that in the article, but someone explained to me that it's not verifiable and unencyclopedic. So, I'm sorry again, but it just shouldn't be in the article. --71.105.12.194 19:19, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Love life

message: Good work so far, just remember -
* sort refs out like this 
 .
* not
 .
* "Abilities and weaknesses", "Fleetway", "Archie comics" and "Sonic X" lack sufficient referencing
I have to fail this, but what I saw is very good. Referencing the problem areas and please re-nominate! Highway Rainbow Sneakers 14:11, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA Notes 

message: This is scrupulously edited and sourced, and plainly represents a lot of work. But a warning bell goes off in the very first sentence: Tikal (ティカル, Tikaru) is a fictional character from the Sonic the Hedgehog universe. The overwhelming majority of the article is about what the character does within that universe. Meanwhile, WIAGA says: The focus of the article should remain on discussing the subject as fiction within the context of "our" universe, not on establishing it as a "real" topic in a fictional universe.... To my mind, the focus is on the latter, and thus the article is not a good one according to WIAGA. -- Hoary 05:33, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You can quote WP:FICT until you're blue in the face, but that doesn't help anyone at this point, since I feel we've passed that stage months ago. Any chance you could be more specific? The only problem I see with the only sentence you quote is that it is simply vague. Compared to FA-quality material like "Felix the Cat is a cartoon character from the silent-film era," it doesn't seem that bad. Nifboy 06:37, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If the "you" here is me, I wasn't quoting WP:FICT but instead quoting WP:WIAGA. The opening sentence of this article is, in itself, fine. (I didn't say there was anything wrong with it.) But it does ring a bell: "This article is about an element from a fictional universe." This is a difficult area that's expressly dealt with in WP:WIAGA. And, unless I misread it, WP:WIAGA expressly says that an article done in this way is not a "Good Article". Incidentally, I had nothing to do with the writing of WP:WIAGA (though I do agree with this part of it), and I can't see how I could have misinterpreted it. (If I have somehow misinterpreted it, then I think Aguerriero has done so in the same way.) -- Hoary 07:54, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

text: First, has the character been noted outside the fictional universe? (Has it had any influence?) I'd work on that. Secondly, I'd try to make the whole thing more concise. Here (stripped of markup) is a randomly chosen example: Later, Doctor Eggman appeared, and Tikal telepathically told the chao to give Chaos the seven Chaos Emeralds to increase his strength. Tikal then assured Sonic that Chaos would not destroy the city because he was using the positive energies of the Chaos Emeralds this time. After Dr. Eggman's defeat, she and the chao spend some time with Sonic and his friends. Some time later, Tikal tells them she is going to return to her own time and asks Cheese if she would like to come with them. However, Cream explains the Cheese prefers to stay with her friends, so as Tikal is leaving, she tells Cheese that if she calls her name, she will return. Compare The Brothers Karamazov -- yes, an example of a very different genre (and as it happens not a book that I have ever read or want to read), but interesting as a long, featured article about fiction. There's little or no "X does this, and then Y does that, and a bit later Z says this to X": instead, plot and characters are summarized. Of course this article was and perhaps will again be proffered as a candidate for GA, not FA, so standards needn't be so high; but I'm disturbed by the apparent lack of concern for conciseness. -- Hoary 02:46, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

text: In brief, the character is a product of the real world; and the article refers to this relationship, as it should. But has the character had any effect on the real world? If so, the article should deal with that too. The character "Svengali" (from the novel Trilby) is now part of the English language -- see for example the very title of the Observer article "Fears of new Waco as FBI hunt for Svengali leader of polygamy cult" -- and while this is of course an extreme example, I'd think that a character written up at such length would in some way be noted in the wider world. -- Hoary 08:37, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

text: If that's so, then I reexperience my initial reaction, which is to wonder what all of this stuff is doing here. There could be a good reason to have an article about the set of games, and also perhaps about each game. Is anyone who is not interested in the games at all likely to be interested in her? (For Iago, yes, people who aren't interested in Othello may indeed be interested in Iago, because he's commonly referred to.) Really, this article seems much better suited to a wiki other than wikipedia (as WP:WIAGA hints). NB I say seems: I may be missing something, and I'm still all ears as it were. -- Hoary 04:59, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: To Hoary: I don't think that's good reason to remove the article somewhere else. According to Jimbo, encyclopedic content "is information which is verifiable and which can be easily presented in an NPOV fashion". --DavidHOzAu 05:24, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that's a statement of what's acceptable rather than what's good. -- Hoary 22:36, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's my point. --DavidHOzAu 01:03, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

text: To 71.118.88.144: Strictly speaking, Wario doesn't count. It has less references and would probably make a good WP:FARC. However, the current issue with Tikal's article is notability in the lead section.  You have to explain why the article is notable, (or interesting,) and explain this quickly with in a paragraph or so. Ideally, the lead section of article should say something like this: "Tikal is the only dead character in the Sonic the Hedgehog series of games released by Sega that was playable after her death. <then say why being a dead character is notable, giving a reason why they should continue reading>." However, as her primary appearance was in Sonic Adventure, (not Sonic Adventure 2,) you'll have to use something different, preferably something that is notable and that the article dwells on. Until then, I don't think this article will be a GA. --DavidHOzAu 05:24, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I now added her notability.  Is it good enough?  Can I now renominate this article? --71.105.11.164 21:59, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Of course you can nominate it at any time, but I see obvious problems that can rather easily be fixed. For example, the tense wobbling in: Tikal is [present] a passionate, gentle pacifist. She never wavered [past] in her attempt to oppose Pachacamac and is determined to have her tribe in peace. She has tried [present perfect] to stop her father in amicable ways and has never once resorted to violence. And it still seems verbose. I suggest printing it out and going over it with a red pen -- I find that when I do this to an article, I quickly see and fix problems that elude me when I'm numbed by a computer monitor. -- Hoary 22:36, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

text: What works for me is changing my font regulary.  Also, print preview might work if you don't want to use paper, but if that's not your cup of tea, follow Hoary's suggestion: Print it.  I also suggest using some editing marks found here. --DavidHOzAu 01:03, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

text: There, I think the problems have been fixed. Are there any other problems that would prevent this article from becoming a good one? --71.105.11.164 03:56, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, since there hasn't been any more complaints, I'll just renominate it. --71.118.78.202 18:06, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA: sorry, no

message: The Hint Orbs that you see throughout Sonic Advance are all Tikal, aren't they?
should that be mentioned somewhere?
You mean Sonic Adventure, right?  And they are.  It is said like, "She is able to turn into a ball of light", which is the hint orb.  But if you mean you want to write the information as something like, "Tikal is in Sonic Adventure as a ball of light who give hints to Sonic and his friends." I could do that. --71.118.87.187 21:00, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hint Orb? 

message: To answer the question of whether Tikal is dead or not, I summerize my reasoning by saying:
:Tikal was born about 4000 years ago, but when she sealed herself and Chaos into the Master Emerald, they were sealed inside and I assume no time passed for them, because when Tikal was released, she still was alive and looked the same as she did in the past, as you see in the end of Sonic Adventure when she turns back into her true form.  I think the ball of light she could turn into was not her spirit, but one of her abilities. When Chaos and Tikal rose into the air and disappeared, they were perhaps going back to the past, to another time that would have been, or to the Emerald Shrine, or perhaps they even were going to different times to protect the Chao from anyone who might try to hurt them. To further prove this theory, the picture at the end of SA showed Tikal and Chaos at the Emerald shrine; most of the SA ending pictures took place after the stories. So my answer is no, Tikal is not dead.
So I have removed the notes that say she is deceased. Tikallover 18:50, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deceased? 

message: Alright folks, i don't know how long this has happened, but I thought that the Tikal article was in the 'Miscellaneous' section(I finally spelled it right!). Tikal has only appeared in Sonic Adventure, and, I think, should be moved(along with all the information in this article currently) to the 'Miscellaneous'(i'm on a roll) section. I'm not just picking on Tikal fans, mind you. I'm hunting down all the characters in the Sonic series that need to be changed.--Superbub 03:48, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tikal, no more.... 

message: Some people don't belive this. But I think Tikal is the mother of Knuckles. They are the same of species. Maybe thats why she didn't want the city to go into war. Maybe she didn't tell her father. Knuckles did say he knowed that place. So somebody please respond.
possible but not likly, Tikal was only 14 when she was seald in the master emerlad wich happend severl thousnd years ago howver she coud have been a young mother and for his saftiy warped him to the future with chaos control.  evan if she is not member of his family dercetly she could be somethig of a great ancestor or something if you Know what I mean.
I think Sega/Sonic Team would've revealed that she's Knux's mom. And, no offense, dude/dudette, I find the idea completely asinine. She's fourteen, man.71.209.183.185 00:11, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The birth of Knuckles the echidna

message: Ummm, the other day, Tikal's weight was stated as 50+ pounds, and now, it's a secret. Why? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.209.170.253 (talk) 22:58, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tikal's Weight 

message: If Tikal's age is listed as 14, and she's been alive for over 100 years, WHY WON'T YOU LET ME WRITE 15 FOR SHADOW AND HE'S BEEN ALIVE FOR 50+ YEARS?!? I KNOW WHERE I FOUND THE NUMBER. ON SONIC CENTRAL!! JUST LOOK THROUGH EVERY SPOT IN THE FORUMS AND YOU'LL FIND IT!!! 207.74.196.20 18:08, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WHY?