Talk:2005 Atlantic hurricane season/Archive 12

message: Should we put in the Greek characters (α β) next to the Greek names? --WolFox 05:42, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: No, they're not in the official advisories, nor names. -- NSLE (Communicate!) <Contribs> 05:48, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, but we use them in the button bar.--WolFox 05:55, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, but "A" and "B" are already used ;) -- NSLE (Communicate!) <Contribs> 05:56, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Greek characters 

message: the template designs look pretty good! Well done! But, there is a problem. There are just letters there. People who look at the article will not know which hurricane is which. Sure, i can get it (well most of it anyway), but not everyone knows which numbers are names of hurricanes. So therefore an idea is to show the full names. ----
:Which will just make it large and confer no further information. A link to the season page has been and continues to be sufficient. --Golbez 09:55, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  template design 

message: I don't know how but Arlene and Cindy have grown to be too long.  Probably Tammy too.  Do we need separate articles for these storms?  I condensed the sections for the storms that do have separate articles, but this now means some of the lesser storms have more info than the big ones. Jdorje 16:46, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too-long storm sections (again) 

message: Reports are coming in very slow for Beta, but this is the information I have gotten so far from news reports, in regards to human casualties (for more info on damage, check Hurricane_Beta#Impact regularly: 
*At least 30 people are reported to have been injured during Hurricane Beta's wrath on the island of Providencia.
*10 boaters are reported to be missing in Puerto Cabezas. 
--Revolución (talk) 22:17, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. --Holderca1 19:05, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Beta? 

message: Does anyone find this to be odd?  They said the official death toll for Stan was 100.  Also in the detailed portion they said:
 AROUND THE TIME OF STAN'S EXISTENCE...TORRENTIAL RAINS CAUSED SEVERE
 FLASH FLOODS AND MUD SLIDES OVER PORTIONS OF MEXICO AND CENTRAL
 AMERICA.  THERE WERE 652 DEATHS REPORTED IN GUATEMALA AND 133 WERE
 REPORTEDLY KILLED IN MEXICO...EL SALVADOR...NICARAGUA...HONDURAS...
 AND COSTA RICA.  IT IS IMPOSSIBLE...HOWEVER...TO DETERMINE HOW MANY
 OF THESE DEATHS ARE DIRECTLY ATTRIBUTABLE TO STAN.
I always thought hurricanes cause torrential rains.  --Holderca1 19:39, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think they're saying other storms move in at the same time Stan did, and those may have caused the landslides, not Stan. They're just being conservative I think. The TCR will have the full info. --Golbez 19:45, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The real number will likely never be known. After all, some bodies were probably decomposed in the mud and they will have a hard time confirming them - or even finding them. As for the direct/indirect figure, I'd expect almost all (if not all) of the deaths to be directly associated with the storm, as it was a mudslide disaster primarily. CrazyC83 00:45, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: October summary

message: I propose adding the following paragraphs to the article in a new section, perhaps after the storm summaries. It is mostly a rewrite of part of the season summary, as well as parts of some of the storm articles. This would also entail removing the paragraph of the season summary section that starts "The level of activity this season has had..." This is what I propose adding:
This season has had far-ranging economic consequences. The economic effects of Hurricane Katrina have been particularly important.
The damage estimate from Hurricane Katrina alone makes this season the costliest season in history, with total damage estimates reaching 100 billion USD. Wilma and Rita are also among the costliest Atlantic hurricanes. This has caused large payments by insurers. However, as insurance companies buy reinsurance to spread the risk around, they are not likely to be threatened with bankruptcy.
Rita and Katrina also damaged crude oil production in the gulf. Due to the low overhead of additional global capacity for petroleum production, and the vulnerability of both oil extracting and refining capacity in the Gulf of Mexico, storms have led to speculative spikes in the price of crude oil. The damage to refinery capacity in the United States caused gasoline prices to soar to prices, when adjusted for inflation, exceeded only by the two inflationary spikes of 1918-1920 and 1979-1982. Governments worldwide tapped strategic reserves of gasoline and petroleum as shortages were reported in the days after Katrina in areas heavily dependent on the Gulf of Mexico for refined gasoline. These elevated prices remained for weeks after the storm. Rita also damaged exploratory wells, leading to concerns that future production would be dampened for some time to come.
Hurricane Wilma disrupted the sugar and citrus fruit industries. Wilma’s damage to fruit trees could have an impact for several growing cycles, compounding problems caused by last year’s season. Florida’s sugar industry was hard hit, as the harvesting had already begun and had to be halted indefinitely. Damage to sugarcane crops was critical and widespread.
Tourism has also taken a hit. Katrina caused heavy damage to New Orleans, disrupting its tourist industry. Mexican tourist havens Playa del Carmen, Cozumel, and Cancún all suffered significant damage from Emily and especially Wilma, causing a major loss of tourism revenue for some time to come.
Miss Michelle | Talk to Michelle 22:50, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I like it.  It's a summary of the entire season, rather than the current practice of summarizing each storm's individual effects. Jdorje 04:38, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Economic Effects Paragraph

message: The top of this article has the worst layout, I changed it earlier today to make it more presentable but it was reverted.  Right now, the infobox sits alone at the top with a huge amount of white space.  The text then begins at the bottom of the infobox, then the ToC and Saffir-Simpson scale box throw everything off as well. --Holderca1 03:38, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: What screen resolution are you using? There is no giant white space for me using 1024x768. Oh, you mean the white space between the ToC and the SSScale (Saffir-Simpson Scale)/active infobox? It's not that big for me, and I just quickly scroll past that with the PgDwn key. (for those interested in looking at Holderca1's version, here it is) -- RattleMan 04:04, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  I just fixed it again before seeing this.  There is a huge block of whitespace for IE - the season statistics table is on the right with nothing on the left, and then, below that, the season summary text appears alongside the Saffir Simpson Scale. AySz88^-^ 05:10, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

text:  Ah, at second glance, it appears Holderca1 went a step further.  (I am still of the opinion we should just kill the automatic ToC in favor of something more compact.) AySz88^-^ 05:13, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

text: Okay, I thought I was losing my mind or something.  I am using 1024x768, but wouldn't have thought IE and others would render the pages that much differently.  What does it look like on Firefox when the ToC is floated?  I see no problem in creating a custom ToC to help out the layout of the page.  --Holderca1 13:27, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Here's how your ToC-floater version looks in Firefox: . A difference between the two is that in Firefox the SSScale is pushed down to right next to the "In early October, the relatively weak Hurricane Stan..." sentence, while in IE the SSScale is right under the Wikinews thing. -- RattleMan 21:58, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmmm, that is interesting, I wonder why it moves the SSScale down that far.  --Holderca1 23:08, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Layout

message: Here is my proposal for a table format.  I'm not sure how it should be integrated with the structure (headings). Jdorje 05:06, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm, but what storms and seasons are they from?  The first storm isn't Hurricane Alice is it?  I think that would be wrong (Alice should be part of 1954 not 1955.) Jdorje 06:56, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Earliest-formed storms 

message: Should those two storms redirect to Northeast Flooding of October 2005 with clear linkages back and forth and strong mention on that page (becoming a double-main article in essence)? CrazyC83 21:02, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Now there's an interesting idea. Maybe if we make a plain, blatant reference in the lead/summary here, we could redir here, but this is worth discussing. Or maybe they should redirect there, with an obvious link back here. Huh. --Golbez 21:19, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The interesting thing about Tammy is that it never even came close to New England, it dissipated over the Florida panhandle and the northeast Gulf of Mexico.  The HPC only issued one advisory for Tammy with rainfall amounts for the southern states.  Tammy just pulled up a lot of tropical moisture to help fuel the storms in the northeast.  --Holderca1 21:27, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Come to think of it, the storm summary mentions that new advisories were issued on October 8th for Tammy in the northeast.  There is no mention of who issued them, it wasn't the NHC or the HPC.  So it's anyones guess.  --Holderca1 21:30, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: That's because they were National Weather Service flood watches and warnings. Tammy merged with an oncoming front. That front stalled out just offshore of the southern coasts and right over the northeast. TD22 slammed right into it and made the whole situation even worse. Once Tammy merged with the front, it was no longer a tropical system. 22 was actually a massive non-tropical gale area when it clashed with the front. Hurricane Eric - my dropsonde - archive 03:12, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tammy and TD22