Talk:Cincinnati/Archive 1

message: There was previously a large paragragh detailing important historical information about Cincinnati.  This included The first Jewish hospital, the first municipal fire department, pre-prohibition brewing, King (Queen) Records, and more.  Any reason why this relevant information was deleted? —the preceding unsigned comment is by  152.163.100.70 13:00, 31 December 2005 (talk • contribs) 
:Probably because the article is getting too large and the information is in History of Cincinnati, Ohio. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 21:05, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Missing Historical Facts

message: As a 45-years resident of Cincinnati, I thought I'd look at this page and see if I could be helpful in editing/augmenting it. There do seem to be a few small but clear errors in it:
* Cincinnati is not the home of General Electric -- although a major divison of GE is housed here (the Jet Engines), and the current CEO of GE was raised here (in a suburb called Finneytown).
* Several of the "notable people from Cincinnati" really don't come from here, at least not in the sense that they lived any significant time in the metropolitan area. Neither Clooney (Rosie or George) lived here. Their family home was Maysville, KY, a long way from the metro Cincinnati area. President Grant never lived here (was born in Point Pleasant, many miles east, and grew up in Georgetown, just as far east).
Hope this is useful.
Lastime
: You are correct, and I've made these and some other adjustments.  I hope you come back again. Lou I 09:24, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: More "native" revisions...Jerry Springer, born in Germany, moved to NYC at age five, moved here after law school. Oscar Robertson, born in Indianapolis, played at Crispus Attucks HS there, moved to Cincinnati to play for UC. Lad liam 04:27, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: When noting who hails from this great ciy please keep in mind that they never had to live in "Cincinnati proper"... meaning Maysville, KY is too far but Finneytown is ok (I'd assume). If someone comes from Norwood, I'd add them here and there are the two are close enough geographically. Anyone wish to comment? (For example, I kept off Nick Lachey because he never lived here from what I can tell - although he did go to SCPA? - I'm confused.)JoeHenzi 00:21, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Factual errors

message: From time to time, Cincinnati newspapers publish articles about the names of Cincinnati's seven hills and the origin of its Queen City name. The information is invariably misleading, or inadequate at best.
 
The seven hills are fully described in the June, 1853 edition of the West American Review, "Article III -- Cincinnati: Its Relations to the West and South."  The hills form a crescent from the east bank of the Ohio River to the west bank:  Mount Adams, Walnut Hills, Mount Auburn, Vine-street Hill, Fairmont, Mount Harrison and College Hill.
: I do not know the text of the article you are referring to above, but Fairmont is actually Fairmount in the naming scheme today.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.62.16.218 (talk • contribs) 
: The spelling in the article is "Fairmont".RME
Cincinnati was first described as a queen by the Inquisitor and Cincinnati Advertiser on May 4, 1819, page 3, column 1.  The language used is similar to the description of Babylon, an allegory for ancient Rome, in the book of Revelation.
 
Thus, Cincinnati has a double connection to the pagan Roman Empire:  the queen designation and the seven hills.  This information was provided some years ago to the Cincinnati Public Library by the Church of Ouzo, but it was never properly communicated to the public. The newspaper article is on microfilm at the library, and the West American Review can be found in the Rare Books department. -- Robert Merlin Evenson/Church of Ouzo
: Thank you for your research, but this is not appropriate to the article. Many cities are given lofty nicknames with vaguely classical connections just as many buildings are given neo-classical architecture. --Tysto 13:05, 2005 August 4 (UTC)
What is not appropriate, the information, or my interpretation?  RME
 
: If the names of the hills surrounding the city are of local interest, then there's good reason to include them, but it is my understanding that there are really more than seven and that the lofty nickname is just a poetic allusion to ancient Rome--just like the name Cincinnati itself . Your connection by way of Revelations--which is certainly not what the original writer intended--to the "pagan Roman Empire" is specious reasoning and original research, which does not belong in an encyclopedia. --Tysto 17:30, 2005 August 5 (UTC)
I find it difficult to believe that Cincinnati became the City of Seven Hills simply because there were a multitude of hills in the area.  The reference I cited is about seven specific hills that form a crescent encircling the city, which I feel presents a far more compelling argument.  The fact that Cincinnati was named after a Roman dictator actually enhances its symbolic connection to ancient Rome.  Furthermore, an allegorical interpretation can hardly be considered specious reasoning, especially since this is a discussion section, apart from the article itself.  RME
:Again, naming the several hills surrounding Cincinnati is appropriate. Equating the nickname "Queen City" with the biblical Whore of Babylon is original research, which is not appropriate to an encyclopedia: Wikipedia:No original research. --Tysto 23:57, 2005 August 8 (UTC)
Again, this is a discussion section, not the article itself.  RME
:The talk page is here to talk about the article and how to improve it. Peyna 18:18, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Seven Hills is kind of a misnomer. If one views the region from the Carew Tower, the area north of the river is quite flat with lots of valleys. The last glacial age leveled the landscape; the melt then eroded out the valleys...Mill, Deer and Duck Creeks, Little Miami River, etc. which give the impression of hills. The course of the Ohio River was defined by the runoff.  Looking south into Kentucky, one can see that the topography there has not been flattened by glacial activity. Lad liam 04:12, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Names of Cincinnati's Seven Hills & Origin of Its Queen City Name

message: As Cincy has been noted for its current state & was often cited as an important place for the URail. --Duemellon 13:36, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: After the shooting of an unarmed 19-year old Black male (Timothy Thomas) by Officer Steven Roach during an on-foot pursuit while a trial accusing the city's police deparement of Racial Profiling was taking place sparked the 2001 Cincinnati Riots. --Duemellon 13:08, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It's great that we've started a race relations section - but could it be a little more factual? The first part is entirely a run on sentence that can be made into at least two (I'll try now) and it leaves out a lot of history. It wasn't just Timothy Thomas that started those riots, it was also the death of Roger Owensby (Jr?) - within like two weeks three black men died at the hands of the police. The third was in fact threatening an officer and made a "move" on him. These three deaths, the history of the relationship between police and citizens and city counsel, the way police and city council responded to public outcry, and the death of two innocent men (Thomas and Owensby) at the hands of police all caused the firestorm. Don't bother trying to say that the police were wrong or right. I have a very strong opinion on this topic, but those who disagree with me stand a lot stronger. They will ruin this article if we get to close to saying that Owensby or Thomas shouldn't have died, as I believe (Especially Owensby, I personally think he was murdered by the police where Thomas was mistakenly killed). We must only put the facts in this article. JoeHenzi 08:04, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

text: It took a little of work, but it was removed 15:58, December 13, 2005 by User:24.165.115.74 who has made some other edits to mostly Ohio pages and mostly harmless, so it's hard to judge what happened or how it managed to get by so many editors. Peyna 16:43, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

text: I'm sorry, did you say genocide?  Most of the murders in Cincinnati have more to drugs, money and sex than race, ethnicity or religion.  No one is trying to exterminate another groups of people entirely.  Be careful with your hyperboles, you might end up marginalizing a real genocide. Peyna 02:30, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added a section about Race Relations 

message: I removed Neil Armstrong from the Famous Cincinnati Natives section, as he is neither from Cincinnati originally (he was born near Wapakoneta, Ohio, about two hours north of Cincinnati), nor does he live in Cincinnati now (he lives in Lebanon, Ohio -- this could perhaps be considered the greater Cincinnati area, but as it's not even in the same county as Cincinnati, it seems a stretch to say he's a Cincinnati native).  Feel free to reinstate him on the list if you're privy to information I'm not (be sure to add it to the Neil Armstrong page, as well). AnDrew McKenzie 23:15, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: - Yeap, he is a native of the Greater Cincinnati area. Lebanon (Warren County, Ohio) is generally considered to be in the greater Cincinnati area, in fact he works at the University of Cincinnati...--Bgrubbs 00:58, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's quite a stretch.  What's next, Cincinnati claims the Wright Brothers?  For what it's worth, Lebanon is 25.9 miles by road from the downtown Dayton and 31.9 to downtown Cincinnati.  I think it's a bit much to place Lebanon in the metropolitan area of either city.  There is quite a bit of "blank space" between Lebanon and Cincy.  Peyna 01:15, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neil Armstrong, Cincinnati ''native''? 

message: Hey folks.  I'd encourage anybody with an interest in this lady to pop on over to her article.  It needs a bit of cleanup -- currently, practically every sentence starts with a date (i.e. On February 2, blah blah blah happened). · Katefan0(scribble) 16:19, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Marge Schott]] 

message: Could we get more specific in the number of days protesting and rioting lasted?
"After a few days of protests at City Hall, riots broke out that lasted a few days." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Candybars (talk • contribs) .
See the main article for additional details. --Duemellon 14:59, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: 2001 Riots -- How Many Days?

message: The Neighborhoods section states, "There are an assortment of classifications, but the separations only help to unite the city more." This sounds a little odd, and a bit point of view. If this sentence is kept, perhaps we need to provide a more complete explanation of how these distinctions "unite the city more", because the previous sentence, which quotes stereotypes commonly used to describe each side of town, doesn't sound very uniting. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 04:50, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  East Side / West Side 

message: Gonna add a section about crime soon (in a week or so, I plan). After Politics. If someone has a better title for it than Legal System & Crime, or wahtever, please share. Also, if anyone has a good format to consider, that'd be great. --Duemellon 19:31, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As an article section it's probably not an appropriate name; but feel free to add something to the nicknames section. Peyna 16:41, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Crime/Legal 

message: Since when was ohio considered a border state? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.166.240.19 (talk • contribs) .
:Perhaps you misread the paragraph you seem to be referring to?  It says Ohio was across the Ohio River from Kentucky, a border state (and a slave state).  A lot of slaves tried to escape by swimming (or running, in the winter) across the river. Peyna 02:52, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Civil War Question 

message: I'm surprised that the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra, the May Festival (and Chorus) and Music Hall haven't been included.  As well, the University's College-Conservatory of Music is one of the leading schools for training in musical theater, jazz, classical, and operatic music. The mostly free public performances, several every week, are the best value in town.Lad liam 04:46, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cultural Life missing some items 

message: How are Irish not Whites & Whites not Irish. Aren't the terms indistinguishable when considering the greater introduction of the "Race Riot" section highlighting the tensions between Whites & Blacks? Are the Whites disowning us Irish folk? --Duemellon 05:47, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Race Riots 

message: I have never heard Cincinnati referred to as "The Big Onion."  Perhaps it is a major nickname that I've never heard, but if not, should it really be wasting space at that already crowded first paragraph? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Candybars (talk • contribs) 10:14, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Big Onion? 

message: Yes, I've heard this used. Someone has added that nickname a few times & others removed it. It is sometimes called "The Nasty/Nasti" or "Nasty Nati". The derrogatory connotation is contextual to the usage as "nasty" itself can mean several things. --Duemellon 17:15, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've not heard it used; could you perhaps site a few references for the nickname that demonstrate it is more than a neologism and it at least somewhat wide use? Peyna 02:04, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Personally I don't think it's notable enough, at least not important enough to be in the introduction.  In fact, probably none of the nicknames, except maybe "Queen City" belong in the intro.  The others can all be covered elsewhere.  You'll notice other major cities do the same.  Usually alternative names listed in the introduction are of the type that a user might search for or actually think is the real name of the thing.  Peyna 23:58, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Done.  This also provides with an excellent place within the article to elaborate on the origins of these nicknames, which can provide the reader with additional insight regarding the city and its people and reputation. Peyna 02:15, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The "Nasty"