Template talk:Crash series

message: Um... Question. Since when were Spyro characters now just sub-characters of Crash Bandicoot? It was a ONE-TIME CROSSOVER. Tom Temprotran 02:21, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

message: This last has obviously changed to include things other than characters, so I'm going to change the title of the template to Crash Bandicoot characters, items and places. Sam 21:27, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Characters? 

message: I think Spyro should be included in the "Good" section, as he's appeared as an ally in a number of Crash games. Just Spyro himself, mind. Thoughts? (Person 1)
By that logic we should add all the other Spyro characters as well. He ISN'T a Crash character, period.(Klaus Kratchet)
No we shouldn't, because they've either never featured in Crash, or only in the one-time crossover. Spyro's been in a good three Crash games now, so he very much is a character. (Person 1)
We should list the cast of Phantasy Star Online as Sonic characters then since they made many cameos together if you believe that. (Klaus Krachet)
I don't know anything about that, but I do know that the Spyro character does exist in the Crash universe, and appears fairly often, so he should be added to the template.
He is NOT a Crash character though.
He obviously exists in the Crash world, he's appeared in several games. He may not be a Crash character in origin, but I think he should have a place on the template, since he appears in so many games.
But he is NOT a Crash Bandicoot character. Besides, why should we listen to you, Mr Speculator? Seeing as you think he was brainwashed in Nitro Kart, and now you've caused the thread to be blocked and the lies left there?
Can we please have this discussion without all the straw men? I think since he appears in several Crash games, he should appear in the template, even in the neutral section. He exists in the Crash universe, he is a crash character too.
He is a SPYRO character.
He's also a Crash character. He can be both.
Technically, he can't. We've had this discussion before many a time, and all previous comments had been rejected. I'm sorry, but it's unlikely to work.
Why can't he be? Obviously, he's a Spyro character fist and foremost, but if he exists in Crash's universe, and makes several appearances, why can't he also be a Crash character?
*Because he ISN'T. He's just a CAMEO. That's like stating that the MegaMan characters in the series before Battle Network deserve to be characters because of the many cameos they have, but they are NOT Battle Network characters. (Klaus Kratchet)
*Can we please have this discussion without using the Straw Man fallacy? Spyro is a character in the Crash series. The characters in the Crash universe are aware of him. He exists. He is very much a Crash character.
*But he is a SPYRO character. First and foremost.
*Right. But he's also a Crash character.
*He can't be two things at once. If he started out life in the Crash series, then he would be a Crash character. As he didn't, he isn't. Regardless of how many games he's made an appearance in.
*Of course he can be two things at once. Why can't he? Maybe if he was portrayed as a completely different character in Crash, you'd have a point, but he's not, he's the same character he is in the Spyro series.
*Many people have tried to get Spyro in the Crash characters template. They've all been rejected. It's not going to work.
*I don't think it's fair to reject this on the basis that's it's been rejected before.
*Do you count NiGHTS as a Sonic the Hedgehog character? The've made more cameos than Spyro did with Crash and nobody does that.
I'm not familiar with that. Spyro, on the other hand, appears in the Crash universe in a way that does not contradict the Spyro story, so it's the same character. He's even been playable in a Crash game. Therefore, he is, among other things, a Crash character.
*Same thing with NiGHTS and Sonic. Spyro just didn't come from the Crash Bandicoot Series so he ISN'T a Crash Bandicoot character.
A character doesn't have to originate in the universe to become part of the continuity. Surely Spyro deserves a place in the template. He's even been a playable character. He's a Spyro character in origin, and also a Crash character.
*I'll repeat this again... Same thing with NiGHTS and Sonic. Spyro just didn't come from the Crash Bandicoot Series so he ISN'T a Crash Bandicoot character.
How is he not? He exists in the Crash series. He's appeared numerous times. He's even been playable in the Crash series. Just because he didn't originate in the Crash universe doesn't mean he can't be a Crash character.
*So why can't NiGHTS or Billy Hatcher be a Sonic character?
I didn't say anything like that. In fact, I didn't say anything about that. What place does it have in this discussion anyway? This is about Crash and Spyro, nothing else is relevant.
*See, you're doing it again. The connection between the two is EXACTLY the same, so therefore it would be unfair to treat Spyro as a Crash character when the other characters shown here are not treated as Sonic characters. You can be real stubborn, you know.
*I'm not familiar with the other games, so it's not my concern whether they're treated as Sonic characters or not. Treat them as Sonic characters if you wish, I don't care. That's not what this discussion is about. Since Spyro appears in several Crash games, as the same character he's always been in Spyro games, and is even a playable character at one point, he should be in the template.
*They're the same thing. If they are not, Spyro isn't. End of story.
*Then treat them as if they are, I don't care. I don't know enough about those games to make a judgment on whether it's the same thing or not. Your argument is ridiculous. This discussion is about Spyro in the Crash series, which is a unique and individual case. Nothing else is relevant.
*You have PROOF that it is NOT a unique and individual case, and if they don't, Spyro doesn't. You're, once again, trying to prove that your "opinions" are correct. Spyro is a character from another series, that is a fact. He has appeared in Crash games, that is also a fact. Saying he is a Crash character is an opinion, which has largely been outweighed. It's like you saying that the "Official Statement" for Crash Bandicoot did not exist, that is your opinion (and wrong at that).
*And you're not trying to prove your opinions are correct? Like I've said before, stop dragging old arguments into every discussion, it's getting tiring. As for the ACTUAL discussion, I have no idea whether this other case is exactly similar to Spyro, but even if it is, 100% exactly the same situation, which I doubt it is, that just means it's a flaw that needs to be corrected, and I'd argue for it to be changed too. Even if Spyro isn't a Crash character by your standards, don't you think he deserves a place in the template due to the fact that he exists in the universe and is even playable in a Crash game?
*Look, just because he makes cameo appearances doesn't mean he is a Crash character. He simply is an ongoing cameo as Sonic is to Billy Hatcher and NiGHTS. They have the exact same connection to Sonic as Spyro does to Crash, but they aren't listed as Sonic characters because they didn't COME FROM IT. You are forcing your opinions into people that Spyro is a Crash character without having anything that could be used as evidence. CBFan went to the original website as most of us have that indicated that the WoC continued from Warped and makes the most sense. I even pointed out that only the villains from Warped appeared in that game yet you made it a forced opinion that Koala Kong, Rilla Roo, Ripper Roo, and all the other villains having "stopped working for Cortex" with no evidence other than unprovable assumptions.
*But Sonic, from what I've gathered, doesn't actually exist in those worlds. That's a cameo. Spyro, on the other hand does exist in the universe, his appearances don't contradict the Spyro games, but are rather a complement to it, and he's even a playable character. That is not a cameo. And if you want to discuss WoC, do it on that article's page. This is not the place for it.
*Wrong. NiGHTS actually IS a playable character in Sonic Riders and the characters know of his existence, as is Spyro.
*Okay. Again, I say, I haven't played the game. Maybe NIGHTS should be considered a Sonic character, I really don't care. That's not what this is about. It's about Spyro, and why he is a Crash character for all the reasons stated above. If you feel that badly about it, go change the NIGHTS thing. And like I said before, even if Spyro isn't a Crash character by your standards, surely he deserves a place in the template due to the fact that he exists in the universe, Crash has been to his universe, and Spyro is even a playable character in a Crash game?
*But, if we were to do that, we'd be going by YOUR standards, which, just like the Official Statement thing, is ONLY your opinion. The official statement is not my opinion, it is a FACT! So is the Spyro thing. You're forcing us all to say that your opinion is correct and ONLY your opinion is correct, exactly the same thing as you did with Cortex's page, which, I may add, I am not happy about you editing it with your opinions before the matter had been discussed!. It is NOT. You're outnumbered here, and you're clearly not reading what has already been written...you're saying "That game doesn't count as I've never played it".
*Look, maybe you should be more concerned about improving Wikipedia then winning the argument. I'm saying the game doesn't count because it has nothing to do with this. I'm not forcing anyone to say anything. This is a discussion page. Guess what we do here? If the NIGHTs thing is exactly the same, which I doubt it is, then I'd argue for that to be changed to, but to deny this change on the basis that that article hasn't been improved yet is ludicrous.
Just to let you know, you are the only person trying to win any argument as only you are arguing about it, an I am improving Wikipedia by removing your opinions. Seconly, you have MORE than enough proof that the two are the same. I don't care if Spyro has appeared in the Crash series, he is technically NOT a Crash character. Ask the other guys who have previously turned down the offer.
First of all, anything pertaining to this matter is an opinion. Secondly, I don't have prof that they are the same, because I haven't played all the Sonic games. Lastly, even if Spyro isn't a Crash character by your standards, don't you think he should be in the template simply due to the number of times he's appeared, and the fact that he's even been playable?
*Oh? Then why don't we have Conker and Banjo listed as Donkey Kong characters seeing as though they both first appeared in a Donkey Kong game, hm? Spyro simply is NOT a Crash character, as he has his own series and only makes a few cameos. He doesn't play much of a role.
*I don't know, I don't play Donkey Kong. This discussion is about Spyro in the Crash series, not Donkey Kong, and not Sonic. Spyro. Being a playable character, and having a game set in the Crash universe is hardly a cameo. Again, I say, even if he's not a Crash character by your standards, don't you think he should be in the template due to the sheer number of times he's appeared, and the fact that he's even been playable?
*Golly, what series DO you play then? I'm just making a comparison and showing that there are characters like Spyro in other games but have an even bigger role than him yet aren't counted as the character. Spyro might have appeared many times in the Crash Bandicoot games, but that doesn't rid the fact that he is just a big cameo.
*Listen Mr Editer, they are the SAME THING! If they don't get counted, Spyro doesn't get counted, and your pathetic excuse of "They're not the same because I have not played them" is just as sad as your "The official statement can't exist because I haven't seen it".  Really sad.
*For the last time, they are not the same thing. They are very, very different. Maybe in this discussion of Spyro and the Crash series, we could just discuss Spyro and the Crash series, hmm? I think that adding Spyro to the template in some form would be an improvement, and to deny it on the basis that the same improvement hasn't been made to a barely related page is ridiculous. And again I say, stopping dragging our old disagreements into this. This is not the place for it. As a side-note, "Mr. Editer"? Is that supposed to be some sort of insult? Seriously...
*Look, this is what I understand from what you say, "Despite not actually being a Crash character and just a large cameo, I believe that he deserves to have himslef in this list because my opinion is a fact, and everybody else's opinion is an opinion." Other series don't count characters like Spyro as actual characters in their articles and I don't see anyone else complain. The reason I discuss other series is because their articles remain UNCHANGED despite some having a much larger role than Spyro has with Crash, while you tell me that we shouldn't discuss that for not having anything to do with Crash, even though I am talking about the ARTICLE ITSELF.
*Oh, great, you've resorted to childish taunts, that gives your argument much more credibility. If you look closely, you'll notice how the only person here who said his opinion was fact was CBFan. Notice how I didn't just add this to the article, but brought it to the discussion page first? Notice how I replied to each of your messages with a counter-argument? Maybe you could do me the same basic courtesy? There are no characters exactly 100% like Spyro is in the Crash series, which is why it should be discussed on his own merits. I think this would be an improvement, and to deny it on the basis that the same improvement hasn't been made to another page is ridiculous. All that attitude does is keep Wikipedia in a state of stagnentation. As for the actual discussion, take the fact that pirahna plants are listed in the template, despite the fact that they come from another series. Why can't Spyro be listed in the same way?
*You've been the ONLY person who has EVER insisted that his opinion is factual, as opposed to myself, who has meerly been going by the games/manuals/statements/whatever. It was your opinion that Brio created Dingodile (despite him clearly working with Cortex on day one), that Wrath Of Cortex didn't follow Warped (despite what the statement said) and that Spyro was brainwashed by N Trance (despite the lack of a helmet)...but you posted them as blatant fact. And you're doing it again here. Also, the Piranha Plants are in the template because they ARE from this series.
**I never stated my opinion was factual. You, on the other hand, after putting forward your opinion on this matter, said "it is not my opinion, it is a FACT". And, for the last time, stop bringing old disagreements into this. If you really feel the need to argue, take it to those pages. Try clicking on the Pirahna Plants link. They're not from Crash, yet they're in the template. Why can't Spyro be?
**Only YOU ever did that. Only YOU. Only YOU ever stated "This is my opinion, thereby, it is officially factual". If you even TRIED to look, everything I was posting WAS factual, based on research and the like. But, of course, you refused to believe that the official statement existed. And, as previously stated, the Pirahna Plants ARE from Crash, as they are SPECIFIC Pirahna Plants. Did you not read what Klaus Kratchet wrote? Of course you didn't, because you think "Only My opinions are correct". Spyro is NOT a Crash character, regardless. End. Of. Story. Stop vandalising constant pages posting your opinion as fact. Do some research for once. CBFan 09:29, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Spyro

message: I don't think the Piranha Plants from Crash Bandicoot really deserve their own article, given their extremely minor status. I think we should create a 'List of enemies in the Crash Bandicoot series' and merge the Piranha Plant article (and the other enemy articles) with that list. Cat's Tuxedo 19:03, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Piranha Plant

message: Is it possible that anyone here could sign their posts using four tildes? Like this: ~~~~
This is standard procedure for all talk pages, and right now it's almost impossible to follow who's saying what. Grandmasterka 21:42, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Signing 

message: It appears as though Tiny Tiger no longer has an article. The question is... why? And furthermore, why do such characters as the Komodo Bros and the Elementals actually HAVE articles? These have not appeared in the Crash games even close to as much as Tiny did.
It's because fanboys have been keeping much of these articles in a stubby state. The articles didn't really look into the character as much as the Emperor Velo XXVII and Evil Twins do now. Thanks to my edits, those two pages quickly went from stubs to B-Class articles, and were thus saved from being merged into the list. Everyone else was too busy spectaculating on crap like "Who really invented Dingodile" or "Spyro shouldn't be in the template" like this was some kind of fansite or something. That's really sad, actually, because it's people like those that give Crash fans like me a bad name. Besides, a majority of the pages on the template would've been stubs even if I improved on them, because they barely served any purpose in the storyline. I hope I answered your question. Cat's Tuxedo 22:44, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tiny Tiger 

message: Besides Crash and Cortex, do any of the left over characters really need articles? The ones I looked at seemed to be in only one game, minor in general, or only have small supporting roles. Nemu 12:59, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I think Coco should remain. She is kind of a primary character. - A Link to the Past (talk) 17:50, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

text: To have an article, a character should have many different qualities (notable in and out of series, has out of universe information, can have secondary sources, etc). The fact that they have info does not earn them an automatic spot. Most of these seem to be well referenced, but I see no reason to leave them if they're still minor. If all but the three or four main characters are merged, and it's worked on for a while, the list could possibly reach the level of quality of Characters of Final Fantasy VIII (which is most likely going to pass its FAC). Nemu 15:43, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Anyway, Crash, Coco, Cortex, Aku Aku, and Uka Uka are the only ones of those I would consider to deserve articles. - A Link to the Past (talk) 17:46, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: How many of the left over characters actually need articles?

message: What happened to the Elemental's article? I think it should have been kept.
:The Elementals aren't major enough characters in the entire series to have their own articles. Cat's Tuxedo 01:50, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Elementals 

message: Shouldn't the Evil Twin's and Emperor Velo's articles be removed seeing as how they aren't major characters?
:A wise man once said, "Compared to cleanliness and reliability, notability is meaningless". Cat's Tuxedo 15:47, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unneeded articles 

message: Shouldn't N. Oxide and N. Trophy have their own articles?
Not yet. N. Tropy needs to appear in one more game in the main series to have one, and Nitros Oxide needs to appear in two more (see "How many of the left over characters actually need articles?" above). Cat's Tuxedo 16:20, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Articles