Talk:Heroes (American TV series)/Archive 10

message: Some spoiler alerts would be nice. I don't think they have to show up everywhere- they don't belong on the Hamlet page- but common courtesy and all that...
:See WP:SPOILER.  –thedemonhog talk • edits 17:22, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've said it before, I'll say it again: If you look for information on a T.V. show don't be surprised if you find information on that T.V. show. Padillah (talk) 18:04, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spoiler Alerts 

message: I was asked to come make a peer review, so here it goes. First off, it looks quite good, although I personally don't see much difference from previous changes. But my main issue is with the characters. There are too many. I know certain characters like Simone Devaux are listed as main characters, but that does not necessarily entitle them to their own article. Now don't go hating me yet because I do hate it when people suggest merging main characters, but I dont want to do this for all of them, just the ones who had minimal mentions in the plot for the first and second season, and I would be willing to re-establish certain articles if more info comes during later seasons. So I'll start by saying who I think should be merged and a brief reason:
Simone: Only in the series for five or six episodes. Her mention could be something that describes her love for Isaac, then Peter, and her death. Not very notable.
Maya: Served merely as a way for Sylar to get to America. More info may come as season three arrives. For now, not notable.
Claude: Simply say he acted as Peter's mentor and was a member of the Company. No appearences in season 2, Forgetable.
Angela: State her "evil" plan and her role in the Company.
Molly: Appeared for a few episodes in season 1 and a handful in 2. State her role with Sylar and adoption by Matt.
D.L.: All he did was try to be a better dad, helped out Niki, then got shot. Woop-dee-doo.
Isaac: State his role to Peter, how his artwork was important, and his death.
Linderman: Although he seemed to be a major player, he truthfully had barely notable importance to the plot.
That's all I have for now, don't hate me. Every other character was a major player in season 2, main characters for both seasons, or ones that have notable appearences for both seasons. BioYu-Gi! (talk) 18:58, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree...judgements like these will be better noted once the series is cancelled or ends.  who knows what the future hold for these heroes characters and their development.--ChrisisinChrist comments and complaints here! 00:14, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: We can adjust it in the long scope then, CiC. Until then, I agree, in part, with BYG's assessment. IF things change in the future, we can change our coverage. But for now, Simone and Claude especially have limited notability. Maya, Angela, and Molly are ongoing characters, DL, Isaac and Linderman played more pivotal roles in plot movement (Claude, by contrast, primarily served as a character development tool for Peter.) I would support severe pruning of Simone and Claude, and some reduction to the others. ThuranX (talk) 01:43, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Agreed. If the character's importance changes then we can just re-add them. If you look at other articles you will note that then tend to A) have just the actual main cast members listed (no reoccurring or minor characters) or B) have a separate list for minor and/or reoccurring chracters.--88wolfmaster (talk) 02:52, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I understand and agree when it comes to recurring characters, such as Claude, but Simone, none the less, was a member of the main cast...not a recurring character.  i dont think we can judge her characters notability...but everyone else, like claude, linderman, angela, molly and whomever else is not a memeber of the main cast, and i support reductions or merges in those articles, if that is what is being proposed.   in the overall picture, when you look at television article, especially those of FA status, it is very common to have a seperate stand alone article for all characters whom are main characters, even if they were only involved in the show for one season.  i think we can all agree to that.  i think the confusion over this topic is simone deveaux, because most viewers, much like all of us, dont want to credit her as a series star, even though she was one.  thoughts?--ChrisisinChrist comments and complaints here! 04:21, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well I don't understand why all editors of Wikipedia LOVE to delete things. What's wrong with having Simone's page? It is not harming anyone, and it can be improved. Why must someones page be edited once they die? Just leaving Simone's page is not harmful, nor leaving Claude's. Now I know someone will reply by saying some policy is not being adhered to, but if the pages aren't, then just leave them! ЩіκіRocкs talκ 07:53, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

text:  I believe if they were included in the opening credits, they shold be included as "Main characters". However, that doesn't mean they should get a seperate article, of course.ZDLKRV (talk) 12:01, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

text: It's down to less than 15 now, and that is pretty good compared to other TV articles I have seen that deserved less space (cough)ANIME(cough)ZDLKRV (talk) 12:10, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

text: How can the main character chart be trimmed?  Tp trim it would be unencyclopedic. I understand that Wikipedia is not a list of everything about a particular topic, but who are we to determine which characters are notable and which are not?  if they are a main character, then they are a main character.  If I never watched heroes before, then I would want to come to heroes page and find out who are the main characters and what impact they had on the show.  I do not support the shortening of the character chart.  that doesnt make sense to me.  As far as main character pages, I support improvement.  those pages need to be improved, but not just deleted. supportive character pages can be improved, trimmed or merged.  but i agree with wikirocks.  to delete or merge pages is just lazy on our part, because no one feels like doing the research to improve the pages.  why delete?  just improve.  we have been talking about improving character pages for a while and placing more out of universe information, but none of the pages have been significantly changed (althought a lot of users have made small and fantastic modificatons). so, i dont support trimming the main character chart...or deleting main character pages.  i support improvement, and improvement in the supporting characters pages as well.--ChrisisinChrist comments and complaints here! 17:42, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  OK. Well since we can't delete any characters from the table...why trim their "summary" i.e. one line each, with some having two if it is absoloute neccessary. For example, why do we need to mention Gina in Niki's summary? She was in 1 episode for 1 second, how notable is that? And this sentence "Sylar takes his alias from the brand name of a watch company," is it really needed? Is it that important? So if we give only one line for each summary, the table would become smaller and look better. Problem solved [in my opinion]. ЩіκіRocкs talκ 05:37, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Summaries have been condensed.  –thedemonhog talk • edits 05:58, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Good job, it looks better now. ЩіκіRocкs talκ 06:09, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: AS per my edit comment, I've done a bit more clean up of the descriptions, and rearranged some of them to move the descriptions of the powers closer to the start of the line. I've also removed some time-specific "former"s (per the customs for fiction writing.) Thoughts? --Ckatzchatspy 06:16, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Good edits, but it's skeptical, not sceptical. Anyways I think we're doing way too much work on the table. When the cast gets too big, I tink we should delete it. ЩіκіRocкs talκ 06:44, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: "Skeptical"? Not if you're Canadian, eh? As for the table, I'm presuming you mean that we should eliminate the table-style formatting in favour of more compact prose. (Not cutting the information out.) --Ckatzchatspy 06:57, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't know that [Canadian's spell it with a 'c']. Anyways you presumed right. Once the table gets too big it won't look good, but I think for now it's fine. ЩіκіRocкs talκ 08:50, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

text:  The proper spelling is with a 'c', but I suppose we have to let the US keep it's little idiosyncrasies! :p I like the table as it is, tbh, I think it's much better than the old one. Ged UK (talk) 10:06, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Chart looks good, and SImone doesn't need her own article. Let that redirect to the list of characters page. Same for Claude, same for many others who cannot assert real-world notability. I've brought this up at the WP:HEROES page, but no one ever listens, and when TTN comes around the next time, I'll be supporting his edits. ThuranX (talk) 12:44, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

text: I agree...chart looks great!  i'm still not convinced about Simone.  I am going to try to improve her article over the next couple of weeks. but i do support claude.--ChrisisinChrist comments and complaints here! 16:10, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Hello.  I looked online and looked through some tawny cypress interviews.  i couldnt find any good out of universe stuff to add to her article...sorry.  does anyone else want to attempt to improve her article?--ChrisisinChrist comments and complaints here! 23:39, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Love the updated character table.  And just my 2 cents.  If the actor's name appears in the main pre-show credits, then that character should be a main character.  If they appear at the end of the show, then they are a guest-star.  It's the way that the production company hires them whether in a "starring role" or as a "guest star."  Simone was a starring role.  Molly was a guest star based on the way the actor's names were listed.  Can't we use that as an objective criterion rather than a subjective one of how important they were to the storyline?
Also--I question the addition of the line to Hiro Nakamura's entry about "He is convinced..."  No other entry has anything like this other than the character's abilities, and relationship to other characters.  That line should appropriately go on his own page, not here. Tedying (talk) 20:57, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Peer Review:Characters 

message: I am writing an article about all of the series which are in the same shared reality as this one through spin-offs and crossovers. I could use a little help expanding the article since it is currently extremely dense and a bit jumbled with some sentence structures being extremely repetitive. I would like to be able to put this article into article space soon. Any and all help in writing the article would be appreciated, even a comment or two on the talk page would help. Please give it a read through, also please do not comment here since I do not have all of the series on my watch list. - LA @ 16:46, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Looking for help writing an article about the spin-offs and crossovers of this series 

message: I notice that there is a need of more pictures. Well for the cast and characters section, why not put pictures of individual cast members? I will try to put some right now. Corn.u.co.pia Discussion 03:47, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks good.  –thedemonhog talk • edits 03:57, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Finished. I think the page looks much better now. Corn.u.co.pia Discussion 04:26, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Not to be a spoil-sport, but do you have explicit authorization to use those photos?  If not, you should not use them.  The current atmosphere for on-line use and the free-use policy is that all photos on-line are assumed to be the copyright material of the photographer or the company employing the photographer.  Unless there is a free-use clause (or the material is explicitly released as publicity materials documented for public release) then you should not use it. Tedying (talk) 20:51, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sorry, I don't understand. Since they're all free-use images, doesn't that mean we can use them wherever we like? Corn.u.co.pia Discussion 06:06, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you sure they are all free-use images?  Images have to be retrieved from the source (e.g. NBC) and should have an explicit free-use clause, which NBC does not have.  If you go to the NBC site, at the bottom is a Terms of Use clause which says under 2.d.x that you will not "resell, redistribute, broadcast or transfer the information" which would include their photos.  You would have to get the photos from somewhere that specifically notes the photos for publicity purposes that are released for free use.  You should be able to find clearly and explicitly on the site that you get the information, that they either own the photos or have the right to release.  All sites should have this under a "Terms of Use" or some such clause.  Web-sites like Wikipedia are now considered "broadcast" of information and are no longer protected by the free-use clause.  That only pertains to personal use, not public use.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tedying (talk • contribs) 19:46, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not called "Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" for nothing.  The individual cast photos are free and if they were not, they would not be in the article.  For more information, see Wikipedia:Copyrights.  –thedemonhog talk • edits 19:57, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

text: Good one demonhog, I'm not sure what he was on about... Corn.u.co.pia Discussion 05:50, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: What I am "on about" is that other web-sites have been tapped by networks like NBC for using screencaps of shots.  Even blogs which don't make any profit are warned not to use copyrighted material.  The nature of using screencaps that don't belong to the posters threatens to put their images into the public domain and break their copyright protection.  And although I don't think there is a problem with the headshots from interviews, etc, the screencaps from the show are the issue.  Despite the little Wikipedia free use disclaimer, I think those screenshots could get Wikipedia in trouble if NBC catches on.  That's why I wondered whether anyone had actually gotten usage disclaimers from NBC who owns that material. Tedying (talk) 18:07, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, but Wikipedia will be fine.  See also Wikipedia:Non-free content.  –thedemonhog talk • edits 18:10, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pictures 

message: I note that a comprehensive set of suggestions has been received via requests for peer review. I also note that all but three of these have been actioned. Of the three outstanding tasks, the voice version request counts as a verdict of "pass" for GA, or why record it?
The other two outstanding points — copy-edit and reference format — are not sufficiently "below par" (imo) to exclude acceptance at GA. I note the GA criteria regarding referencing at 2(b) — "provides in-line citations from reliable sources" for assertions that might come under challenge.
I interpret the GA criteria to be ensuring basic clarity and verifiability of content. This is distinct to FA which requires consensus that presentation of material has reached an achievable optimum, given the constraints associated with diversity of opinion inevitable in collective decisions.
I further interpret peer review of the current article, to this point, to be making effectively the latter point. Presentation of content, including style of expression and format of references has not reached optimal form. However, these are not grounds to fail a nomination for GA. I wish to stress here that I understand the GA process to involve both constructive criticism aimed at offering specific points for improvement, but also acknowledgement of high standards already achieved by hard work. Both these factors are noted in WP:How to Review Nominations. 
Hence, I have passed this article for GA, according to the standards specified and according to the spirit in which this process is to be understood. Additionally, I endorse the peer reviews and encourage the team that has produced this Good Article to close off on the outstanding tasks and re-present the article for wider feedback via nomination for FA.
In detail, I find this article to be well written. The prose is clear. Vocabulary selection is slightly literary in places, the tone is exemplary for encyclopedic text — it avoids sinking into proseline, advertorial or fansite blogging. The text remains engaging without becoming informal, while being objective without becoming abstract or distant. It avoids complex grammar. Most significantly, it proceeds in short logical steps linking related material under an overall structure that provides a solid framework for a reader to approach and assimilate the information. As such, it conforms not only to specifics of the manual of style, but also to the general principles of clear and encyclopedic text the manual is designed to protect by exemplifying.
There is considerable, notable and verifiable content in the article. Not only is it verifiable, it is actually verified. In fact, its strength leads to one area for improvement — standardization of reference format. However, these sources are contained within a section dedicated to the attribution of sources as required by the GA criterion 2(a). OR is not an issue in this article. Nor is POV. It is stable, save for incremental improvements of uncontroversial nature.
The result is an entry that addresses all major aspects of its subject, without undue attention to details, in a readable and responsible manner. It is also appropriately illustrated, enhancing, rather than diluting, the text.
Thank you for this article and congratulations. It only remains to encourage every effort to push further to satisfy the criteria for FA. Alastair Haines (talk) 09:13, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This is fantastic!  Good work everyone who helped bring this article to GA stat...Now, we simply need to clean up the refs and get a good copy edit and then i think we will be ready for FA.  Thanks to user Alastair for your comments and upgrade...we appreciate it.  The writers strike really helped all of us put this page into perspective.  I hope we all keep improving...thats all I gotta say.--ChrisisinChrist comments and complaints here! 06:07, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I haven't read through this entire review, but I have to say that one thing that stands out negatively are the unformatted footnotes. Gary King (talk) 01:45, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair comment Gary, we all note it, and it bears repeating. I take responsibility for unilaterally passing the article for GA despite that outstanding and accurate constructive criticism. The article cannot be passed for FA without that issue being addressed. However, credit where credit is due. This is an excellent article -- the content, sources, structure and illustration are just plain good, in fact, better than good. To be featured, it needs to be flawless under the scrutiny of consensus, and references will be checked! We know what needs to happen next, let's "make it so". Alastair Haines (talk) 08:03, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Passed article for GA 

message: Hello editors. I find the soundtrack table very out of place and it really is an eyesore. Could we make it like the one here? Or maybe we could even make a new page for it. Thanks. Corn.u.co.pia Discussion 06:12, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Reply, anyone? Corn.u.co.pia Discussion 13:16, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Why do you need someone to reply?  No one is opposing, so just make the change.--ChrisisinChrist comments and complaints here! 17:48, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well I'm not going to waste my time and do it, only to have someone revert it five seconds later. That's why I'm asking, and for suggestions too. So instead of trying to be smart, you could say something constructive. :P Corn.u.co.pia Discussion 07:48, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

text: Sometimes it is difficult to read someones tone when they are writing.  I was not trying to be "smart."--ChrisisinChrist comments and complaints here! 16:15, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, OK, well my mistake. I can see where you're coming from. Corn.u.co.pia Discussion 08:41, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Soundtrack 

message: Hey!  We need to get like 10 or 20 people who will commit to clean up 20 refs.  I am going to start a sign up list for anyone who is interested.  Just sign your name next to the refs your are going to commit to cleaning up.  For example, if you agree to clean up refs 25 to 50, sign your name next to it below.  We just got GA status and I think the refs is the name thing that will stop us from FA.  Sign up below to clean up some refs.
*1 thru 25 - Corn.u.co.pia Discussion 09:30, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I was just wondering...Chris, why haven't you signed up? :-) Corn.u.co.pia Discussion 11:50, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: lol...to be real honest, I am probably the main reason we have so many lazy refs.  I dont really know how to format refs...so I copy and paste websites...a lot of users call them lazy refs, or unformatted refs...sorry dude, but I dont know have to cite sources properly on wikipedia to save my life...i would be more harm than help...at least 70 percent of the unformatted refs are thanks to me...sorry...!!!  A lot of users wont contribute to the heroes page until the series returns or get some more buzz...probably around comic con time...when that happens, I am sure we will get a better response and more users contributing...right now, the page is kinda dead because their isnt much to contribute.--ChrisisinChrist comments and complaints here! 04:08, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Here's something for you, then - a handy script for adding a citation tool. You can read about it here. The script used to require installation in your monobook.js file, but has recently been added to the "Gadgets" tab (right-most tab) in Special:Preferences. Look in the "Editing tools" section for "refTools". Cheers. --Ckatzchatspy 05:14, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

text: Looks like not many users are volunteering. Should we start directly asking people to help? Corn.u.co.pia Discussion 13:15, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I say we wait...right now the page is kinda dead...as season three starts getting more hype and buzz, more people will come...a lot of the regular contributors of this page havent edited this page since the end of the second season.  We will have a lot more activity on this page when the series returns from its 9 month hiatus...--ChrisisinChrist comments and complaints here! 16:29, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well that's kinda exactly why we should get people to fix the refs now! When the third season starts, there will be heaps of new info, and then we'll have double the work. If we finish what we have now, then we won't have as much work for later. And for you're ref fixing troubles, try going here cite web. I learnt from there. The section meanings are explained below the formats, and once you pick it up, it's really easy! :-) Corn.u.co.pia Discussion 07:09, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Volunteers to Clean up Refs 

message: The list was removed earlier in favour of a link to the "Cast and characters" section. I've reverted it for now, as I don't think it is too long. However, since the point has been raised, what is the feeling here? List or link? --Ckatzchatspy 08:57, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Seeing as I was the one who inserted the link, I think it's pretty obvious which one I support. The link looks much cleaner, and I do think the list is a bit too long. Corn.u.co.pia Discussion 09:04, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I support the LIST.  Its more encyclopedic...besides, the list isnt too long to me...I think it is just fine. There isnt a limit on how long the infobox is and it doesnt really help to just link it below.  the infobox should have info in it and not links to other sections.  i say keep the list...its better, more encyclopedic and more accesible for quick viewing...my thoughts...any more?--ChrisisinChrist comments and complaints here! 16:10, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Fine, keep your ******* list! We'll see who'll be laughing when the list is as long as the page itself! **Maniac laugh** Corn.u.co.pia Discussion 13:13, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I really hope that was in a sarcastic tone (as evidenced by the manic laugh at the end). Padillah (talk) 14:34, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

text: I think we need to prune the list. Tawney Cypres and Leonard Roberts are still in there for crying out loud. If this series is going to continue the way it has been and we are not going to prune the list to "Currently Starring" then we might as well just switch to the link now since the list is gonna get huge! Padillah (talk) 14:37, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That aspect of it has been discussed to death... "starring" reflects the entire run, not just the moment. --Ckatzchatspy 15:57, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I would not mind cutting down the list so that it only mentions those who have been starring from the pilot through "Powerless" (Milo Ventimiglia, Ali Larter, Hayden Panettiere, Sendhil Ramamurthy, Masi Oka, Adrian Pasdar, Noah Gray-Cabey, possibly Greg Grunberg—was he credited in the pilot).  –thedemonhog talk • edits 19:45, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I would recommend splitting the list into two lists, the current "starring" cast and the "retired starring" list which could include a note per character such as "(Deceased: Chapter 1)" Tedying (talk) 20:21, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Both options, however, involve Wikipedians deciding who warrants a listing, and who doesn't. Personally, I chose the list over the link because the length of the list doesn't bother me in proportion to the overall article size. However, it is much more desirable to use a link than to make judgements as to who should be included and who shouldn't. (In addition, we'd just be creating problems with the "Characters" section, as partial lists or split lists in the infobox would only encourage similar actions in the body of the article.) Thoughts? --Ckatzchatspy 04:14, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The list is fine, but I'd be willing to compromise in that the infobox starring list reflect whatever the current season is, and the cast and characters section remain indicative of all starring roles from series inception. ThuranX (talk) 04:42, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Starring" list 

message: Blu-ray.com is not a credible source for the DVD release.  It is one of the only sites that is reporting the information, and no information about DVD releases and dates can be found on any credible or official websites.  So, for now, we need to find a credible official verifiable source for season two dvd and blu ray information.  Bluray.com unfortunately is not credible enough for inclusion in wikipedia.  Thoughts?  I checked Universal Entertainment Home Video website, Universal Media Village and NBC.com and found no information regarding the dvd.  Does anyone have a verified crfedible source? --ChrisisinChrist comments and complaints here! 15:59, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Check List of Heroes episodes.  I found a reliable source (PR Newswire).  –thedemonhog talk • edits 14:49, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Here is the direct link if someone wants to add the info on the season 2 dvd and blu ray release
http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Heroes-Season-1-and-Season-2-Blu-ray/9411--ChrisisinChrist comments and complaints here! 16:03, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blu Ray Release and Season 2 release dates 

message: I am trimming down the Lead significantly, as recentism seems to have crept in with some unnecessary details (when the second season began, etc.) I'll be removing it, but would be amenable to discussing any of the edits I perform. :) - Arcayne (cast a spell) 16:51, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The lead is too long?  Wow, that’s a first...everyone was complaining in the peer review that it was too short.  I think the lead is too short for an article of this length.  I think currently, the idea would be to either leave the lead as is over expand it more...this is a pretty long main page article...the lead is sufficient or under-sufficient for an article of this size...but too short?  Nah, I don’t think so.  I disagree with trimming the lead.  Look at the peer review...expanding the lead was a big topic.  I don’t think the article includes too much recenticism, seeing how there hasn’t been any recent activity or breaking news about the series since December 2007.  It gives a clear overview of the show, date, times, season, production staff, extensions, and awards.  I mean, I think it sums up the article well and is fine.--ChrisisinChrist comments and complaints here! 04:18, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I hate how how Chris disagrees with everything ;) but I'm going to have to agree with him. Sorry Arcayne, but I like the lead. It looks really good and does summarise the article really well. Thanks for the thought but I disagree. Corn.u.co.pia ♥ Disc.us.sion 05:11, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There's still room for trimming... a bit of trivia here, a too-specific-date there... I've given it a pass - the revised version is here and the diff. is here. --Ckatzchatspy 06:14, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I don't always disagree, do I?  lol..okay, I mostly do...but, back to the point.  I agree that the lead does have trivia, so I like the little tweaks that User:Ckatz made.  Originally, when I expanded the lead (after the peer review) I modeled it after a couple of featured television articles that I had read on wikipedia...so, I just wanted to say that it was for that reason that I originally included some of the information that I did.  However, I will say that I think the lead is good in correlation to the legnth of the article.  Currently, I thik the version that Ckatz has posted is good and better than it was before...but, the originally lead doesnt need to many changes, in my opinion.--ChrisisinChrist comments and complaints here! 15:46, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead Paragraph 

message: Heroes has a new character. I put the infomation in "Casting". If you wish to place the infomation somewhere else, that's fine. The infomation should be put somewhere since it's been officially announced.  dposse (talk) 16:13, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: that's the right place for it, agreed. (fixed the title, too.) ThuranX (talk) 20:45, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brea Grant gets cast in Heroes 

message: Well Heroes is starting soon, and I was wondering if anyone wanted to get Powerless to GA or FA status before the season started. The page is almost there, and with some new info and some clean up, I'm sure we can have at least one notable episode of Heroes! Corn.u.co.pia ♥ Disc.us.sion 07:24, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Powerless 

message: http://nbcumv.com/entertainment/release_detail.nbc/nbcuniversaltelevisiondistribution-20080521000000-nbcuniversaldebuts.html
this is an article from nbc.com talking about new heroes trading cards...i dont have time to include the information in the wikipedia article, but if anyone has a spare moment and is desperately anticipating some verifiable legit heroes scoop, check out the link and include the info in the article...
thanks!--ChrisisinChrist comments and complaints here! 03:09, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  If anyone wants to include this... 

message: I think the ingress to this article is way, way too much focused on
the commercial success of the series. This is not at all interesting
in a long-term perspective compared to information about content,
general synopsis etc.
The broadcast statistics, number of viewers etc, should have it's
own section, while the ingress should be much short, have more
focus on content, and briefly mention the most important things
about its commercial success.
I bet that 95% of the hits to this page is NOT from people looking
from broadcast statistics. In addition, the current structure
simply makes it pretty boring to read!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.160.50.2 (talk) 20:18, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Style and scope of ingress 

message: In the 'Casting' section the quote from Brea Grant says: 
"I'm stealing a secret that's been kept in Hiro's family for a long time that he's just now found. He stops time right as I grab it, but in that second it took him to grab it, I almost make it out of the office." 
>>> He stops time right as I grab it, but in that second it took him to grab it, I almost make it out of the office.
>>> as I grab it, but in that second it took him to grab it
>>> as I grab it....him to grab it
I believe that this is an incorrect quote. Can someone please confirm this?
Sigmarz (talk) 07:09, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's an awkward quote, but it is confirmed as real via the easily accessible link that follows it in the article.  –thedemonhog talk • edits 08:11, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Casting 

message: Who were the writers? what epsiodes?  Much difference in the team between seasons? 62.56.114.181 (talk) 22:40, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: See List of Heroes production crew.  –thedemonhog talk • edits 00:13, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Writers? 

message: For the Casting section right now, it has how the casting process works, as well as information about casting the main characters (such as Peter and Hiro). The casting info for Peter was recently also added to the Peter Petrelli page, so now his casting info is on both pages. Would it work better to just have the casting process itself be on this paste, and transfer the casting process for individual characters to the character pages? Ophois (talk) 19:25, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think a condensed version of the casting of individual characters would still be nice to have on this page.  –thedemonhog talk • edits 23:20, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Casting (indiviudal characters) 

message: Has the 3rd season even rapped filming? saying there are 3 series seems rather speculative, though it is a given that there is going to be a 3rd series, anything could stop it being finished &/or shown! In short: there is no 3rd series yet (see WP:CBALL)...   Doktor  Wilhelm  01:16, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: They're certainly part way through filming, it starts in the autumn (in US and UK anyway, the UK showing will be in the same week as the US it seems), but I don't know what effect the Screen Actors Guild strike will have. Digifiend (talk) 09:21, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: For what it's worth I've heard on NPR that the SAG is not going to strike but will work under the old contract until the new one is passed. That being said, we've got commitments from the network and everyone involved, WP ain't paper and if we got it wrong we can correct it when we do find out what's right. padillaH (review me)(help me) 12:54, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "No. of seasons 3" 

message: Please help me with the proper pronunciation of the actors names at Heroes Pronunciation.  Thanks for the help. padillaH (review me)(help me) 21:12, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you asking what is the significance of pronouncing a persons name correctly? Or the significance of the spoken word version of the article? padillaH (review me)(help me) 13:08, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

text: Well, that may be true but we've been asked by the GA committee to produce a spoken-word version of this article during a GA review (it's at the top of the page, it might be collapsed so you may have to click the "show" link). To that end I've volunteered to do the spoken word version of the article and was looking for help with the pronunciations of peoples names. However, from the complete and utter lack of response from others regarding this you may very well be correct that I am wasting my time. padillaH (review me)(help me) 12:02, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Ooh, don't take it personally. I'm sure many other users like me saw your message, but were not sure of the pronounciation of the names either. :-) Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 06:27, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for that Corn.u.co.pia (Corny? No, that's not nice, sorry.) ;) padillaH (review me)(help me) 12:14, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: lol, that's alright. I love it when other users attack me personally; one of the best parts of Wikipedia. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 06:06, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, God no! I didn't mean that as an attack. I'm sorry. I was just poking fun at the way you split up your username. I didn't mean to offend or attack or anything. I was genuinely trying to thank you for the attempt to console me. Yesterday sucked. padillaH (review me)(help me) 12:22, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I was under the impression that Cornucopia was sympathizing with you (not taking offense for your "joke").  –thedemonhog talk • edits 16:46, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, thedemonhog is right (as always). :-) Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 05:10, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Actor name Pronunciation Guide 

message: Due to all of the footage and discussions on the Season 2 DVD, I feel that we should include the volume "Outbreak" under the season two section and give the information about it and the details of its removal from the storyline. Anyone else agree or disagree? Ophois (talk) 04:53, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't even know what "Outbreak" is, but I think we should have it on the page. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 05:02, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you mean "Exodus"?  –thedemonhog talk • edits 05:05, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: And all the pieces fall into place... Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 05:08, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It appears that "Outbreak" is synonymous with "Exodus", which is covered in the "Synopsis" section.  –thedemonhog talk • edits 05:17, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

text: Does anyone have any objections to me adding a more detailed section about it under Season 2? Ophois (talk) 04:10, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No.  And I do not own the DVDs so I will be unable to help you.  ;)  –thedemonhog talk • edits 05:30, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

text: I concur. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 05:58, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

text: Do you have a link or anything that has Kring giving that name? Ophois (talk) 17:14, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Just look for the citations in this and the List of Heroes episodes pages.  –thedemonhog talk • edits 18:38, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

text: (edit conflict)Here are some other interviews (here and here) where Kring uses the name. --Ckatzchatspy 19:00, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, so that leads to another question. Should the lost volume be mainly referred to on this and other pages as "Exodus" or "Outbreak"? Both have reliable sources. "Exodus" seems to be the original main naming, but now it seems that "Outbreak" is the official name. Ophois (talk) 18:56, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

text: Sorry, I removed OUTBREAK without noticing that it was being discussed (since thier has not been much discussion on tis page since December 2007). Anyway, I think if we are going to use the name OUTBREAK we need to provide a source/citation that is verifiable and concrete.  I have not heard any references about OUTBREAK. However, some of you may, and if you have a verified source, please use it. Otherwise, it should remain Exodus, rather than saying Exodus (also rferrred to as OUTBREAK).  Thoughts?  Outbreak seems to be a plot point rather than a name.  All interviews that I have read, including the extras from the season 2 DVD have also referred to this volume as Exodus.  I have not read or heard any references to outbreak.  I think we need to find a concrete source to tag to it, if we are going to use it. OUTBREAK seems like a quasi-fan creation, rather than an actual term of usage...thoughts?--ChrisisinChrist comments and complaints here! 05:48, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The Season 2 DVD extras that I watched all referred to it as "Outbreak". I don't recall any mention of the name "Exodus" given in them. Ophois (talk) 05:59, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The sources you provided do not verify OUTBREAK. It is a New York Times interview, where the writer refers to the volume as Outbreak, but it is not a direct quote from Tim Kring.  Outbreak seems to be the main plot point of Exodus, not the name of the volume.  Just because it is referred to as Outbreak, it does not mean that OUTBREAK is an encyclopedic reference. I am going to remove it until we get more concrete sources.  Right now, it just looks "unsupported"; like we are added unneccesary information to the page...please find a verified source...do you have a quote from the DVD or a location within in the DVD/DVD Extras where the information on OUTBREAK can be found?--ChrisisinChrist comments and complaints here! 15:46, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Stupid is kind of a harsh word.  –thedemonhog talk • edits 18:27, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. unsupported sounds much better. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 20:27, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

text: You're right...my bad...unsupported.--ChrisisinChrist comments and complaints here! 00:31, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Outbreak 

message: The use of the term "volume"  in this article (as opposed to "season," "series," or other words traditionally associated with television series) is unclear. The distinction between seasons and volumes is not explained, nor is it clear whether the producers of the show actually use the term "volume" or if it is just a fan reference. The term should be defined. PCM2 (talk) 19:16, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe the program uses the term volume in the same way that it notes each episode as a chapter, in keeping with the comic book format of the series. While we cannot say without citation, a volume tends to be a season (called, confusingly enough 'series' in the UK, with the show being called a 'programme', instead of a 'series' or 'show'). I hope that directs your research efforts into finding a citation. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 20:27, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: So far Season 1 = Volume 1, Season 2 = Volume 2, and Season 3 is scheduled to be Volumes 3 & 4. It can be confusing, I get that. If its not explained why they refer to the seasons \ storyarcs in this way it should be explained. Particularly as there are so many references to "volume". SWatsi (talk) 14:49, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: So long as you have a citation that explains it. Without it, we are skipping down the OR highway. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 18:58, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is a "volume"? 

message: Is everybody ready for the onslaught of vandals and deluge of OR? Is there some way we can proactively protect at least this page and the character pages? We know were going to need it. It'll probably be a big enough job even if we do protect them. Any strategies? padillaH (review me)(help me) 12:45, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: We need to watch Heroes tonight and watch this page at the same time.  Now that the season is kicking off tonight, unseasoned users are going to tear this BEAUTIFUL article up with OR and POV and all kind of BS.  We need to watch, copyedit and revert things as soon as they are added to the page.  I am in US Pacific Time, so I will be seeing heroes later than those on the east coast...so, I cant take the first shift...but I can come during the end and help clean things up! Is thier a way we can get a temporary block on this page?--ChrisisinChrist comments and complaints here! 14:54, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no gravity - the earth sucks. Get a helmet, two lollipops and stand by. :) - Arcayne (cast a spell) 15:46, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

text: I will be bringing the Request for Protection request (waving it in my hot widdle hand). - Arcayne (cast a spell) 15:56, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I made the mistake of trying to add the following bit about Dr. Suresh tonight: "He gains super strength, the ability to climb walls, and other myriad physical abilities through an injection of Maya's adrenaline and certain enzymes during "The Second Coming"/"The Butterfly Effect." You guys seem to be swamped, so I'll just post that here for myself so maybe I can add it back after it's over. Sorry if I made more work for you guys.CallidoraBlack (talk) 02:24, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Or, you could just NOT add anything abotu Suresh's powers until we know more, like in the next few eipsodes. There's no obligation for us to guess about where the writers are going, get citations and add. ThuranX (talk) 11:50, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

text: Suresh says in the episode that he has the ability of hightened senses.  Lets just leave it at that for now until we get more details.--ChrisisinChrist comments and complaints here! 14:31, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I was just trying to go with what Suresh said. He said he had heightened senses and was stronger, faster, etc. Also, we see him doing some of those things. I see your point though, it seems from the preview for the next episode that he will be undergoing more changes. It may not be worth listing them on this page now as at least some of them may only be temporary (his method of gaining them was fairly reckless and the possible end results are endless). I'll stick to correcting spelling errors and the like for now.CallidoraBlack (talk) 19:41, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Important quote to remember: "I'm saying, I'm an insect who dreamt he was a man and loved it. But now the dream is over ... and the insect is awake." That's all I'm saying. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 13:23, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prep for the season starting tonight 

message: What is the policy concerning this?  Are we going to list every country where Heroes air and list the premiere date and channel?  I do not think this is encyclopedic, but I dont want to remain within the scope of wikipedia policy.  It seems really insignificant to continue to list countries where Heroes air, especially when it isnt attracting a significant amount of viewers in those venues.  Thoughts? I remember someone once told me that the focus of television articles should be based on its country of origin.  Heroes is an American Television show that has an international appeal, but I do not know if it is significant enough to continue to list countries, air dates and network channels.  thoughts?--ChrisisinChrist comments and complaints here! 18:28, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  International Season Premiere dates 

message: Doesnt the "Artwork of Isaac Mendez" page seem a little IN-UNIVERSE?  We should change the title of that page to the Artwork of Heroes (TV Series) or something along those lines to make it more encyclopedic.  Also, Sylar, Peter and Utusu from tonights premiere also paint the future.  Should not thier artwork be included? (I would have discussed this on the Artwork of Isaac page, but a lot of the discussion boards in the Heroes project have been dead for months)--ChrisisinChrist comments and complaints here! 14:57, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That entire page should be folded into Isaac's page. ThuranX (talk) 21:04, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I would tend to agree with ThuranX. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 13:24, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I actually think Chris has a point. If the artwork is going to continue to be pivotal (and with the emergence of Usutu, it may) then we should bunch all of it together and talk about it all. What makes Isaac the owner of the artwork? Why would we merge Usutu's art on Isaac's page? Padillah (talk) 13:27, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, now there is a point of comparison, as more than just two or three people paint (and not just Isaac's ability being absorbed by Peter and acquired by Sylar). Maybe a sub article entitled "Artwork of Heroes"? - Arcayne (cast a spell) 14:22, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Artwork 

message: I do not see this commented in the wikipedia article that new episodes are being broadcasted on the G-4 network. I also don't understand how new episodes are being shown on the G-4 network while it is clearly a NBC show, I know about show syndications but usually it is episodes that were already broadcasted. I think someone should research this more and talk about this, I think it is very important.--72.202.148.237 (talk) 07:00, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You can find information on G4 under the Multimedia/TV section of the article, which is towards the bottom on the article.  If you encyclopedic and verifiable information about the relationship between G4, NBC and Heroes, please feel free to add to the section and add citations.  G4 is advertising new episodes of HEROES because it is a new episode to the netwoprk.  Even though it is not new to those of us who watch it on NBC, Global or BBC it is new to those watching it for the first time on G4.  Also, some cable and dish providers do not broadcast NBC in America, so some people have to watch Heroes eps for the first time on G4 is thier provider does not carry local network. I hope this helps you.  Happy editing!--ChrisisinChrist comments and complaints here! 03:53, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Heroes showing new episodes on G-4 network 

message: If yes, i think we have to remove it. -- Magioladitis (talk) 22:11, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Why?  Lots of things are repeated on Wikipedia.  Take the lead section of every article for example.  If you mean directly repeat, then it ahould probably be reworded.  –thedemonhog talk • edits 23:17, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Because this article is too large, for one thing.  Paring down redundant information into sleek summaries is one good way to do that.  --otherlleft (talk) 19:40, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

text: I think it should be back. First of all, it's one of the most important section. Second, it describes  the characters in the series. And, if you really want to remove it in this article, then, maybe we can put a link containing the name of the cast and characters including their descriptions in the show. --- Celester Mejia11:39, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No, do not add it back.  What we have now is sufficient: it still describes each character.  –thedemonhog talk • edits 03:47, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Does the table under "Cast and characters" section repeat things from other articles? 

message: This is certainly a good article, but at 124 kilobytes it's quite long.  Much of the length comes from overly-long summaries of other articles, so it looks like splitting it up has already been done; this really needs a lot more summary.  I took at stab at summarizing the opening to the list of episodes.--otherlleft (talk) 11:30, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article Size 

message: Heroes is significantly over 100kb in length.  This section is not duplicated in its entirety anywhere else, so the information could easily be split off.--otherlleft (talk) 20:22, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: 100 percent disagree to split the information about production.  That is the core of this page...information in that section is the most encyclopedic and most revelant.  It should remain on the main page.  The HEROES page is modeled after other featured television seris articles.  You should take a look at some of them before you make anymore significant changes. However, with that said, I do agree with some of the cuts you have made...however, the production information seems really relevant and it would probably hurt the article more than help it.--ChrisisinChrist comments and complaints here! 07:54, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

text: Does anyone know of a featured article in television that does not have a production/development section in the main page?  I dont!  I think moving the production section would be foolish if we wanted to reach FA status. I dont know of any TV series FA articles that doesnt talk about the conception, development, and production of the series on the main page. Thoughts?--ChrisisinChrist comments and complaints here! 09:17, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Your points about the value of the production section are well-taken, but the article remains quite long.  As with any split, I envision a meaningful summary remaining behind.  I don't see this article achieving FA status at this size, and this remains one of the easiest sections to remove.--otherlleft (talk) 13:28, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It might be easy to remove, but it is not the one we should remove. As mentioned above, the subject material is key to keeping the article relevant to an out-of-universe perspective. If we're going to trim, the "Media" section would be a better place to start. --Ckatzchatspy 18:58, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

text: I agree.  The multimedia section could be moved to its own page or trimmed down. However, I dont know if I have ever seen a television article where the multimedia section was significant enough to warrant its own page.  Perhaps someone could trim it.  I dont know.  As far as I am concerned, this article is fine.  Is thier a wikipedia policy that talkks about article length?  If so, can someone link it here for review?--ChrisisinChrist comments and complaints here! 20:57, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia:Article size discusses this at length. That pages recommends that articles over 32 KB be split, and states that articles over 100 KB in size "[a]lmost certainly should be divided". According to the history page, the version of the page as of time of this comment is 108,346 bytes. - SigmaEpsilon → ΣΕ 21:09, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

text: Chrisinchrist, I respect your position (as left on my talk page) that 101kb is small enough for this article.  I respectfully disagree, based upon my reading of Wikipedia:Article size.  I would prefer that changes be based upon consensus, so please keep the dialog here where other editors are likely to follow it.  It's clear to me that the article simply must be pared down significantly, and I would like to find consensus on what sections would benefit most from this clipping.  --otherlleft (talk) 14:28, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I say condense the section, with the option of creating a separate article for more in-depth coverage.  –thedemonhog talk • edits 14:31, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed split of section Production into its own article 

message: My first wikidrama - I made some good-faith edits and someone trashed me anonymously on my talk page.  I'm perfectly willing to go along with a consensus, but one generally reaches that by logging in and discussing it on the article's talk page.--otherlleft (talk) 02:34, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Ah, the rancor

message: I am a bit perturbed because every time i add something about music that was featured on Heroes a certain (un named musician and a few others ) comes and "undo's" it. I can prove that Catlow was on Heroes and it was an official selection by NBC!! Why do people keep taking it down? The selection was made by the shows producers and was composed by the shows official composers Wendy Melvoin and Lisa Coleman-so what is the issue?? Anyone? Thanks for helping us out :)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bananarchymusic (talk • contribs) 03:19, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Part of your text duplicates existing material; the rest is no notable. That is why others have been removing it. --Ckatzchatspy 03:23, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

text: Your text reads:"On September 22nd, 2008 the third season of Heroes was kicked off. The season started with a special one hour 'clip show' countdown that was broadcast right before the two season premiere episodes were aired.The Canadian Indie band Catlow had songs selected off their debut album titled "Kiss The World" on the season premiere clip show. The band Catlow has a web page at http://www.myspace.com/catlow for more detailed information on the band and their music."/The clip show is mentioned in the "Season Three" section. There is no reason to single out Catlow out of all the music the show has used, and there is no reason to add their web site. --Ckatzchatspy 04:32, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Official Music on Heroes 

message: Whoever the people who wrote this page are, nice work. Its just about featured article quality.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.109.97.23 (talk) 02:22, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Writen Really Well 

message: Can someone please rewatch the episodes and place the narration provided by Sendhil Ramamurthy (Mohinder) in the episode pages like we've done for the past two seasons? Thanks. dposse (talk) 23:15, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Narration for season 3 

message: What do we do about these two? The only argument for them being the same is their appearance (and the actress but don't make me bring up Eddie Murphy). I think that, for the time being, unless we can come up with a better reason they should be separate since we can establish that they have distinct powers and as far as we've seen it's easier to think they are twins than Nikki somehow got from a blown-up building in New Orleans to upstate New York (while acquiring a new power) while her son was outside the building. The writers could do it but it'd be one heck of a stretch. Padillah (talk) 19:07, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Then again, two Peters exist in the same time and place during the premiere... point being, unless we have something to prove it is a different character altogether, we should keep them together. (This also gives "real-world priority to the listing, as it groups by actor rather than by character.) --Ckatzchatspy 19:41, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

text: Now. I do believe/agree with Padillah.  They, even though the possible relation, have different powers.  Therefore, I agree that they should be separate.  Maybe in the same cell, but with separate descriptions/summaries.  Thanks and Happy Editing!    ⊥m93 (TALK) 19:57, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

text: I see what your saying.  But how do we mention Jessica?  Even if she isn't related or even the same person, she still was the one who had the super strength if I'm not mistaken.  Even if Tracy and Niki are two different people that look alike, Jessica was still a half of Niki (sort of, but you get what I mean).  How do you suppose we mention Jessica.  Thanks and Happy Editing!    ⊥m93 (TALK) 20:22, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: What? Who cares about jessica? She's part of Niki's write-up. ALi Larter has played one schizoid character, Niki Saunders, AKA Jesica Saunders, and now plays a new character, Tracy Strauss, who has no apparent connection to the other two. Write it up that way. Keep the Niki/Jessica thing compartmentalized away from Tracy, until, like I said ,the 'lost triplet' thing is established. ThuranX (talk) 21:04, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

text: I was only asking the opinion of others and what they thought about mentioning her.  I understand what you are saying anout Tracy and I agree with you.  I was only asking what others had thought.  And the "Who cares about Jessica?" comment... For one I do.  And I'm sure I'm not the only one, leaving you out of that group seeing as how you don't.  But that is beside the point.  I don't care if Jessica is dead.  So is Issac M., but he was mentioned.  And even if she is dead, she was a hero/villain for a little bit.  Thanks and Happy Editing!    ⊥m93 (TALK) 21:11, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think what ThuranX means by "Who cares about Jessica" is that Jessica was never a real person. Speculation regarding the powers aside Jessica was shown, beyond doubt, to be an alternate personality of Nikki. She is mentioned as such in Nikki's article - done. It is hard enough proving the notability of these characters and the fact that they deserve their own articles, to try and justify an article about a personality splinter would be a strech even for an inclusionist like me. Padillah (talk)
And it looks like Tracy and Nikki are related somehow.  Awesome. 66.151.6.243 (talk) 05:14, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

text: Yeah, after this last episode (Season 3 Ep. 3 counting the premiere night as 2 episodes) it really seems that Tracy is NOT the same person as Nikki. Zimmerman seemed to know several people who looked like her/them. Applejuicefool (talk) 16:46, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It is probably safe if we wait until next week when we get more details on the Nikki/Tracy connection.  Lets not waste time speculating.  Any unverified info on the topic will be removed...so the best bet is to wait until Monday! Also, please remember that this is not an idle forum for Heroes chat and gossip.  Thier are plenty of fan sites that offer services and programs for heroes fans who wish to chat with other heroes fans about the events within the series.  Happy hunting! I hope you find a fan forum that meets your chatting needs. Lets just not do it here.--ChrisisinChrist comments and complaints here! 03:56, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

text: I didn't mean putting Jessica as a whole person as herself.  I don't think that she was "important" enough.  I was merely just asking for ideas on this topic.  But since I have recently had issues with my computer; I will not be able to be online for a while at a time.  Therefore, I will drop this subject. That is unless there comes a time for it to be brought up again.  Thanks and Happy Editing!    ⊥m93 (TALK) 20:17, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

text: Indisputably? That doesn't seem the right word to ever use with Heroes. While we haven't had any evidence yet that Jessica is more than a psychological construct in Nikki's brain, we just don't know if such evidence will be forthcoming. I agree that she shouldn't be treated as a separate person at this point, but I can see scenarios which could play out in which she would be proven to be (or have been) a real person. All I'm saying is, don't get it locked in yet, mentally, that Jessica isn't a real person. Applejuicefool (talk) 16:24, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sorry, I'm using too few references to too many different people. That Jessica (as Niki's sister) was a real person is pretty indisputable. Niki's adoptive father has had conversations with Niki and D.L. has talked about her - The sister was a real person. As for the "Jessica" that was a splinter personality of Niki, you are right. It may seem cut and dried right now but if they tried hard enough they could make her be a real person. We do have out-universe references that state she is not, they even admit to changing Niki's power from multiplicity to strength and giving her a split-personality. But in-universe is never guaranteed. Padillah (talk) 16:53, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  How to handle Nikki and Tracy? 

message: In the section where it talks about the characters, it talks about Isaac Mendez who had died in either season 1 or 2. (I can't remember which.)  Which brings me to this question.  How can we "re-word" the Niki section? Here is why I ask...  If I'm not mistaken it was Jessica who had the super strength not Niki.  Now maybe I'm wrong about that, but I still think that Jessica should at least be mentioned in that section.  Even though Isaac and she had died, he was talked about in that section.  Now maybe I have no clue what I'm talking about, and if so please inform me; but that is what I feel.  Thanks and Happy Editing!    ⊥m93 (TALK) 19:57, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Now. I do believe/agree with Padillah.  They, even though the possible relation, have different powers.  Therefore, I agree that they should be separate.  Maybe in the same cell, but with separate descriptions/summaries.  Thanks and Happy Editing!    ⊥m93 (TALK) 19:57, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

text: I see what your saying.  But how do we mention Jessica?  Even if she isn't related or even the same person, she still was the one who had the super strength if I'm not mistaken.  Even if Tracy and Niki are two different people that look alike, Jessica was still a half of Niki (sort of, but you get what I mean).  How do you suppose we mention Jessica.  Thanks and Happy Editing!    ⊥m93 (TALK) 20:22, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: What? Who cares about jessica? She's part of Niki's write-up. ALi Larter has played one schizoid character, Niki Saunders, AKA Jesica Saunders, and now plays a new character, Tracy Strauss, who has no apparent connection to the other two. Write it up that way. Keep the Niki/Jessica thing compartmentalized away from Tracy, until, like I said ,the 'lost triplet' thing is established. ThuranX (talk) 21:04, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

text: I was only asking the opinion of others and what they thought about mentioning her.  I understand what you are saying anout Tracy and I agree with you.  I was only asking what others had thought.  And the "Who cares about Jessica?" comment... For one I do.  And I'm sure I'm not the only one, leaving you out of that group seeing as how you don't.  But that is beside the point.  I don't care if Jessica is dead.  So is Issac M., but he was mentioned.  And even if she is dead, she was a hero/villain for a little bit.  Thanks and Happy Editing!    ⊥m93 (TALK) 21:11, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think what ThuranX means by "Who cares about Jessica" is that Jessica was never a real person. Speculation regarding the powers aside Jessica was shown, beyond doubt, to be an alternate personality of Nikki. She is mentioned as such in Nikki's article - done. It is hard enough proving the notability of these characters and the fact that they deserve their own articles, to try and justify an article about a personality splinter would be a strech even for an inclusionist like me. Padillah (talk)
And it looks like Tracy and Nikki are related somehow.  Awesome. 66.151.6.243 (talk) 05:14, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

text: Yeah, after this last episode (Season 3 Ep. 3 counting the premiere night as 2 episodes) it really seems that Tracy is NOT the same person as Nikki. Zimmerman seemed to know several people who looked like her/them. Applejuicefool (talk) 16:46, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It is probably safe if we wait until next week when we get more details on the Nikki/Tracy connection.  Lets not waste time speculating.  Any unverified info on the topic will be removed...so the best bet is to wait until Monday! Also, please remember that this is not an idle forum for Heroes chat and gossip.  Thier are plenty of fan sites that offer services and programs for heroes fans who wish to chat with other heroes fans about the events within the series.  Happy hunting! I hope you find a fan forum that meets your chatting needs. Lets just not do it here.--ChrisisinChrist comments and complaints here! 03:56, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

text: I didn't mean putting Jessica as a whole person as herself.  I don't think that she was "important" enough.  I was merely just asking for ideas on this topic.  But since I have recently had issues with my computer; I will not be able to be online for a while at a time.  Therefore, I will drop this subject. That is unless there comes a time for it to be brought up again.  Thanks and Happy Editing!    ⊥m93 (TALK) 20:17, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

text: Indisputably? That doesn't seem the right word to ever use with Heroes. While we haven't had any evidence yet that Jessica is more than a psychological construct in Nikki's brain, we just don't know if such evidence will be forthcoming. I agree that she shouldn't be treated as a separate person at this point, but I can see scenarios which could play out in which she would be proven to be (or have been) a real person. All I'm saying is, don't get it locked in yet, mentally, that Jessica isn't a real person. Applejuicefool (talk) 16:24, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sorry, I'm using too few references to too many different people. That Jessica (as Niki's sister) was a real person is pretty indisputable. Niki's adoptive father has had conversations with Niki and D.L. has talked about her - The sister was a real person. As for the "Jessica" that was a splinter personality of Niki, you are right. It may seem cut and dried right now but if they tried hard enough they could make her be a real person. We do have out-universe references that state she is not, they even admit to changing Niki's power from multiplicity to strength and giving her a split-personality. But in-universe is never guaranteed. Padillah (talk) 16:53, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  To Go Along With This Suggestion 

message: Where should we cover the formula? IMO the season 3 synopsis section of the main article, The Company (Heroes) and Mythology of Heroes would all be suitable locations, I'd prefer The Company. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 01:41, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It should probably be covered in all three with a more detailed description in either the mythology or Company article (in the long run, the Company article should probably be merged into the mythology article or the Company-related information should be better summarized in the mythology article with more extensive coverage in the Company article).  –thedemonhog talk • edits 02:00, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Formula 

message: Is it reasonable to strive to FA status for an article about an ongoing TV series?  Even if not, I think this could be one at some point if it is kept concise.  WP:FA? indicates that article size is a criterion upon which articles are based, so as we develop summaries for more and more seasons we will have to make them shorter and shorter, depending upon related articles, if we want this article to maintain the focus necessary for that goal.--otherlleft (talk) 20:37, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, other in-progress television shows have obtained the bronze star.  –thedemonhog talk • edits 23:38, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Featured Article Status 

message: I'm not sure if this has been mentioned already, but here is http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20235213,00.html?cnn=yes WhisperToMe (talk) 20:42, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Entertainment Weekly's "Five Ways to Fix Heroes" 

message: I just got my hands on the last 6 eps of Robot Chicken and there's a Heroes skit in one of them. It could be added to the "shows that referenced Heroes" section, but I notice that says "SOME shows that have referenced Heroes" so it's not meant to be a complete list. I leave it up to the regulars to decide if it should be added or not.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.68.230.60 (talk) 23:49, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  show to add to the "Shows that referenced Heroes" section (or not) 

message: Does anyone know how to site iTunes as a reference?  In my last edit I lost a reference to the issue with iTunes and NBC, but wasn't able to replace it with a link showing that Heroes is there.  Algr (talk) 06:55, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  iTunes as a reference? 

message: I'm no fan of the film, but pseudo-documentary refers to mock documentaries, not documentaries people happen not to like. It's clearly NPOV. 92.9.86.215 (talk) 19:11, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that "pseudo" is wrong, but I think some kind of qualification is appropriate.  Or is the link to the "loose change" article enough?  I'll pull "pseudo" for now. Algr (talk) 02:42, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pseudo-documentary Loose Change? 

message: I haven't been here for a while, so I removed the section and replaced the info back into the lead. Has consensus been established for it to be shortened? From what I see here, I am guessing no. And for the firing of the two producers, where should that be placed? There is no crew section, so I moved it to the lead for now. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 06:31, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That lead is WAY too long, and misses the point of what an intro is for.  There is a whole paragraph about internet tie ins that belongs in the multimedia section.  (Practically every Sci fi show has an internet presence.)  And season ratings breakdowns are far too much minute for an intro.  It should say something like "The series premiered to outstanding ratings, which leveled off in the second season.  Move the number lists to the relevant season sections. Algr (talk) 02:54, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Overview section 

message: There appears to be an error in the first paragraph where there is no open ref tag. Feltcap (talk) 19:24, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference error 

message: There is no list of or link to a list of episodes of Heroes on the page.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.65.23.141 (talk) 04:39, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually there's at least two links to the list of episodes. In the infobox, just after the number of episodes it has a link to the list of them, and just after the Season Synopis area theres a link to List of Heroes Episodes. I think we're covered. -- WORMMЯOW  14:14, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Episode List? 

message: I've noticed that some of the superpowers on the show aren't really superpowers. Yes, most of them are, but having a photographic memory doesn't make you superhuman. Plenty of people have a photographic memory, myself included, so technically, the character Charlie Andrews isn't superhuman. Nintendoman01 talk, 8:34, 16 December 2008.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.93.236.98 (talk)  
:Well, there's three ways to answer that. Firstly, the concept of Heroes is that they are ordinary people with extraordinary abilities - where evolution is taking us to the next step in our life. It doesn't have to be big steps, but could be just improving on something we already have. Like the woman with very good hearing, or the one who can tell if you a person is lying... Secondly, I think Charlie Andrews is a character who not only remembers everything she sees or hears, but also learns these facts. 
:Thirdly and most importantly, this isn't a forum for discussing Heroes but rather a place to discuss improvements to the Heroes (TV series) page, even though I love getting involved in speculation and am a terrible wikipedian for doing so...-- WORMMЯOW  08:56, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Not to continue to fan the flames but the article you linked to presents the entire thing as bunk with one guy quoted as saying the entire concept was a "unfounded myth". All due respect, and understand this is coming from someone that regards themselves as having a near-Eidetic memory, we don't have truly Eidetic memories. They are not nearly so common as you present, in fact they are so uncommon most doctors think they don't exist at all. Padillah (talk) 13:15, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Abilities 

message: The eclipse that is shown is clearly an eclipse with the moon passing between the sun and the Earth. I think the best way to note this is to call it a Solar eclipse and provide the link. What is the rationale behind changing it to a lunar eclipse? Padillah (talk) 13:37, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eclipse of what by whom? 

message: I think these would be best represented as a simple "Power Mimicry" with different methods. Much like the Precognition of Angela and Isaac are differentiated by the method. Especially given the revelation that Sylar can gain powers without killing. Opinions? Padillah (talk) 17:30, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Way too many unknown details at play about all three for us to say anything definitive. When unsure of what to say, saying nothing is the best option. :) EVula // talk // ☯ // 17:32, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Powers of Sylar, Peter, and Arthur. 

message: How come there is no mention of criticism several fans have in regards to the way the current season has been handled?
:sign your comments with four tildes ( ~ ) , and "Several Fans" doesn't sound very notable at all 134.197.22.98 (talk) 01:14, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It is notable, but thus far, no one has taken the time to add a paragraph with citations to the article.  –thedemonhog talk • edits 01:37, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

text: Of course not. But most shows don't take a deep plunge in quality after it's first season. 64.180.93.200 (talk) 01:56, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism of the third season 

message: A lot of the same information is repeated in Season Two and Season Three ("Generation" and "Villains") 99.241.41.173 (talk) 01:54, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Repetition 

message: An editor wants to add several genres to the infobox. I have moved them here so that we can discuss and reach consensus. The genres added are "adventure" and "thriller". Personally, I'm not convinced we need them, or if they even apply (especially "thriller"). Thoughts? --Ckatzchatspy 03:52, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, apparently the editor has restored them again. Anyway, what is the feeling about these? --Ckatzchatspy 03:54, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Heroes is definitely not a thriller and I would not call it an adventure either.  –thedemonhog talk • edits 05:04, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Genres 

message: It's high time the cast list got updated, Cabrera and Cyress haven't been in it since season 1, and Dana Davis was only in season 2.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.136.252.87 (talk) 23:19, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You may wish to read through the talk page archives to see past discussions regarding this subject. In a nutshell, the cast list reflects all main characters, not just the current ones. This is common to all television series articles, and is also reflected in how articles are written as an overview rather than "in the moment". Hope this helps. --Ckatzchatspy 23:26, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Look at Dexter though, Erik King was removed from the cast list season 3 onwards.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.136.252.87 (talk) 23:28, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: If so, that would be an error as the cast list should reflect all cast members throughout the series history. --Ckatzchatspy 23:31, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cast list 

message: What you people think of adding ratings for each volume to the ratings section. At the moment it's just seasons, but i think it would be a good idea to do volumes aswell. What you think? IAmTheCoinMan (talk) 23:18, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I think volumes is an important concept for the show, however, the ratings should be broken down by season, because that is how television series are ranked...not by volume. --ChrisisinChrist comments and complaints here! 04:12, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah true IAmTheCoinMan (talk) 02:55, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ratings 

message: I think we should add the ratings for each episode to the main page under a smaller heading of 'weekly ratings'
Because they do it on other pages such as Chuck and 90210. As well as many Australian TV Shows. I think its a good idea and gives a good gist on how things are going. IAmTheCoinMan (talk) 02:55, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: They are already at List of Heroes episodes.  –thedemonhog talk • edits 05:26, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Dead linked at not with good side by side comparison like Chuck IAmTheCoinMan (talk) 23:50, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  More Ratings 

message: Given the events surrounding Template:Heroes Wiki yesterday, I have temporarily removed the link from the characters articles and opened a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Heroes#Heroes Wiki, part two. Please weigh in and voice your opinion. Thanks. --Ckatzchatspy 10:10, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Heroes Wiki template 

message: Guys, we've got to come to some sort of agreement on the length and breadth of the character articles. They are, almost every one, editorial-laden, in-universe, fan-cruft. This is from a recent addition to Claire Bennet:In "1961," Angela is finally revealing to Claire, Noah, and her sons Nathan and Peter the secrets that have haunted her for over 4 decades. What kind of smarmy crap is that? Great for TV Guide, not for what is supposed to be an encyclopedia. My problem is if I start trimming I know in my heart I'm just gonna get reverted "because it's important to the character". Is there anyone that agrees we need to start trimming?  Or am I gonna have to fight tooth and nail for every edit? Padillah (talk) 17:55, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. But until the episode airs, that's all we have to go on. Ophois (talk) 19:19, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: This may come as a shock but "1961" has aired already. And I'm almost positive most of the first three volumes are past. You can't convince me that the 56k that makes up the Claire Bennet article is from unaired episodes. And if that's "all we have to go on" then we wait for the episode to air. We don't need to scoop anybody. Not at the expense of turning into a fan forum. Padillah (talk) 19:29, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, I misinterpreted what you said. Yeah, stuff from future episodes shouldn't be included, as they haven't aired. But if something is wrong with it once it airs, just rewrite it. Ophois (talk) 19:40, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

text: Don't even try.  2 years ago, I tried to put some common sense regarding how Heroes articles are written, but my thoughts were rejected (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Peter_Petrelli/Archive_1#Too_much_information).  I gave up, but I still consider them to be terrible.  I still believe an article ought to be the description of someone/something and not the story of it, especially for Wikipedia articles that should be in encyclopedic format.  -- Lyverbe (talk) 17:04, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I'm going to give it a shotin user space and see what I can come up with. I agree it should be a description of the character, not a run-down of what they've done. It can be supported by the TV show but not a regurge of it. Padillah (talk) 19:41, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I considered doing the same for Claire but I never got round to it! Perhaps I'll come back to it now the season is over. -- WORMMЯOW  08:11, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, Lyverbe is right, the first thing we need to decide on is a character template. I've even been thinking about using a FA real life person and then expanding it a little to encapsulate the fictional part. But I'm not sure who to use. Padillah (talk) 12:13, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I was thinking of using someone like Pauline Fowler. She's a soap character who has had long drawn out stories based over 21 years, and that article isn't insanely long. What's more, it's a featured article, so it should work well as a template. What do you think?-- WORMMЯOW  13:58, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That's good, I think we can use that not only for the format of the pages but for the level of content. After 21 years her article is 69k long. After three years (really two and a half because of the strike) Claire's is ~56k. I'm going to see what I can get done in the next few days. Thanks for the template. Padillah (talk) 14:23, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Glad I could help. Of course, Pauline's actually 21 years, average of 3 times per week all year round, works out over 3000 episodes. compare that to Claire's 60 or so. Still, now the season is over, we might have a chance to tidy up the articles. -- WORMMЯOW  07:31, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Character articles are getting WAY out of hand. 

message: http://www.tv.com/story/14210.html?tag=headlines;title;2&om_act=convert&om_clk=news
interesting... short volumes? IAmTheCoinMan (talk) 04:11, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  erh 

message: thoughts? - Arcayne (cast a spell) 06:08, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I think ALL the articles are too long. We've got four years of stuff in most of these articles. There's still detail of the case scene between Claire and Sylar... from season one! In Claire's article. All the character articles have gotten out of hand. This article could be trimmed a bit but those need to be hacked on with an ax. Padillah (talk) 13:00, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

text: Yeah it is way to long. We should make a lot more of the headings and sub-headings expandable. And we should have a link to www.heroeswiki.org    --Trevorrrj (talk) 07:37, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is the article too long? 

message: Ok I get there was a writer's strike and people are not happy about it but, please don't hit me over the head with it. Well thats what jumped out at me when I read this section. How about we change the wording a little. I think mentioning it twice in section would be enough. Blackash (talk) 01:59, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Writers Strike in Season Two 

message: The first season of Heroes did not premier on Sci-fi UK, it, like Season Two and Three, aired on BBC two. The BBC Two site even has it's own Season 1 Guide: . On another note, Season 4 is to be called "Redemption".  94.169.64.110 (talk) 10:00, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: No it did premiere on Sci-Fi before the BBC. It was repeated on BBC Two & Three after the run had finished but every series should now premiere on the BBC first. Could do with better reference to the Sci-Fi run, and mention of the repeat run to avoid these mistakes?? SWatsi (talk) 11:27, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Ahh, I see, then I agree with the mention of the repeat. 94.169.64.110 (talk) 17:50, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I've improved this section. The BBC Two/Three showings are not "repeats", as they are the first showings on terrestrial and main-stream digital respectively. U-Mos (talk) 13:33, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  UK First Season 

message: In the section of season one it states that characters gradually learn about their "abilities". However true this might be I suggest to point out that the presence of the eclipse be part of it. You see it in the title sequence before every episode and on the front cover of the DVD. (English Version, I cannot say what overseas have) Its not fair to overlook it. Andrewkowalc (talk) 23:34, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Season 1 

message: This link reappeared after being gone for quite some time; I removed it, and it was restored with a description that it is the "official" wiki. Two things: one, the site is linked from the main page of NBC's Heroes site. Per WP:EL, we don't need to link to it since the link is thus easily accessible from our existing link to NBC. Two, even if we do use a direct link, it should not be described as the official site since NBC's link distinctly groups it under "other" instead of with their "official" sites. Thoughts? --Ckatzchatspy 18:05, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree it's a stretch to call it the "official" wiki.  Besides, Heroes Wiki's authority comes from its stability and activity, not from NBC's stamp of approval.  Also, I think everyone's in agreement that the broken link to the old, abandoned wiki isn't helpful.  But I'm not familiar with the external link policy you're referring to, that Heroes Wiki, which I believe is worth an external link based on its own authority, should not be linked because one of the other linked sites also links to it.  I see something about minimizing links to interlinked official websites, but again, I don't feel Heroes Wiki is an official website, but something quite independent.  Matt Fitzpatrick (talk) 23:08, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

text: Heroes Wiki is "partnered" by NBC; they provide the primary funding, and as such is their main endorsement. Now, most articles which have a Wikia wiki, have a direct link to them on the main subject page. This should not be any different. Are we favoring Wikia over other wikis now? Also, the fact that the nbc.com Heroes page already links to the wiki is quite weak. We link to other wiki's as a service to our readers who want more in-depth information. WP:EL is also quite clear about other wikis under What not to link; Links to open wikis, except those with a substantial history of stability and a substantial number of editors. Mirrors or forks of Wikipedia should not be linked. Is short, the Heroes Wiki should be linked.  — Edokter • Talk •  15:54, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it's not a question that it "should" be linked, really more if there is consensus to link it. (We are under no obligation to provide links to external sites.) The fact that it is listed on NBC's main page is actually an incentive not to link it, as our goal is to reduce links, not increase them. There's also been some talk of tightening up on the Wikia links. As I said, it is about consensus; the link was actually removed some time ago, IIRC, and there's not been a push to restore it until this discussion started, so... --Ckatzchatspy 18:58, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

text: True, a reduction in links often improves an article, especially if the links are unhelpful (as the broken link to the abandoned wiki was).  In this case, though, a link was replaced, resulting in article improvement but maintaining the same number of links.  As for consensus, continuing developments on Heroes Wiki (expansion and official recognition) might be contributing to a consensus shift.  I'd be in favor of linking Heroes Wiki, and perhaps trimming the link to the ex-producer's blog instead.  The pictures on that blog are nice, but what flavor milkshake he had at the shoot is information I can do without.  Matt Fitzpatrick (talk) 22:25, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Heroes wiki 

message: Refer to the List of Heroes episodes Talk Page to weigh in on the discussion.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by SnakeChess5 (talk • contribs) 05:24, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Use of ''Heroes Wiki'' links 

message: Although this is seems to happen a lot for series on WP, it seems odd to limit the coverage of critical response to the first two seasons.  The abysmal reviews of the latter seasons (e.g., on avclub.com) seem equally notable, though fewer reviews are available from high-profile sources due to decreased promotion by NBC and lack of interest. 97.123.228.47 (talk) 05:51, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Critical response for second half of broadcast history 

message: I was surprised to see that the section on music does not mention the (transparently obvious) influence of cult horror film composer/arranger/conductor Richard Band. The theme music in particular is highly reminiscent of Band's work for the "Re-Animator" trilogy and and "From Beyond". I am not a musician, music critic or musicologist and would therefore value the opinion of someone better qualified than I before I attempt an edit.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.159.52.54 (talk) 17:23, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Theme Music  - Influence of Richard Band