Talk:List of railway electrification systems

message: I think it has 600 V DC.
http://www.kolej.one.pl/index.php?dzial=linie&id=329&okno=historia&od=0&do=31  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.24.167.98 (talk) 17:11, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  WKD (EKD) in Warsaw, Poland 

message: 750 v dc (or rather 600 v dc) was the standard for tramcars. Later, the same was adopted for  underground metro as well as elevated LRT/MRTS systems as well possibly due to ready availability of the technology. But now AC supply voltage systems and compatible rail traction vevicles are available, I believe. What are the comparitive technical and commercial features and what are the current trends worldwide?
:In the UK, the HSE has banned any new third rail systems on safety grounds, only permitting extensions of existing systems. Thus leaving the choice to be what system of overhead electrification (which i do believe has varied - see the Tyne and Wear Metro (the first) compared to Midlands Metro, the Croydon Tram link, The Nottingham Tram, The Manchester Tram, etc --Pickle 15:16, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  750 V DC versus 25 KV AC for modern city sytems 

message: As i understand it some original form of electrification from Liverpool Street to Shenfield, around the 1930s using (i think) 1500v DC. I've only found a handful of mentions of it eg (p11 of  ) and any more details would be appreciated (eg when it was replaced by 25Kv AC) --Pickle 15:19, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It is mentioned here on p10  (1959) that 1500v DC has been started in the early 1950s and when the rest of the Liverpool street system is electrified to 25Kv AC (adopted standard in 1954 BTC modernisation plan) the 1500v DC system will have to replaced. --Pickle 15:47, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  on p34  (1959), it states Liverpool street to Shenfield was electrified at 1500v DC in 1949, and this system was extended Chemslford and Southend Victoria in 1956. Passengers and receipts "more than doubled".Pickle 16:23, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  The line from Liverpool Street to Shenfield (including the line from Fenchurch Street to Bow Junction via Gas Factory Jn) was electrified in 1949.  In 1956 the system was extended from Shenfield to Chelmsford and Southend Victoria. All of this, apart from the Shenfield to Chelmsford section was converted to 6.25kV, 50Hz AC, Overhead in 1960. The Shenfield to Chelmsford section was converted to 25kV, 50Hz AC, Overhead in 1962.  The rest of the system was converted from 6.25 kV to 25kV between 1976 and 1980 in various stages. ALECTRIC451 23:00, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  1500v DC in the UK 

message: I think the 'Southern Railway' references should be replaced with something linking to the present day UK rail network and not a company that hasn't existed since 1948 - say 'southern region' or 'southern and merseyside areas of British Rail' for 750V DC. User:Tom walker11:04 23 August 2006
::I don't think anyone has developed a phrase that nicely encompasses the geographic areas in the UK that still use third rail. back then it was southern, the merseryrail system and tyneside (and 4 rail for commuter network out of Euston and broad street to Watford junction). the southern region of BR has been abolished and no phrase encompasses the area severed. Network rial has its "routes" but that hardly helps (as there are 3 with third rail, the non third rial bits of LSWR around Salisbury hived off), we've also gained 3rd rail on the tunnel into moorgate from kings cross - the Northern City Line) but lost tyneside electrics. I've approached it differently in this new article (which is far form complete) - Railway electrification in Great Britain. Pickle 16:32, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: According to information in Underground News (March 2007, p151), as published by the London Underground Railway Society the old Southern area was split into 3 areas. The inner includes the locations where LUL trains share tracks, and is electrified at 660v dc. Then there is a grading area which is electrified at 690v dc and the rest of the system is at 750v dc. Spsmiler 11:02, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  LUL dosen't share many lines (WLL with district and NLL with district into richmond), but it worth a mention at the same point as the Watford Dc line shared with the Barkerloo line. Pickle 14:01, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  The Southern Region was (and still is) split into three maintenance areas: Kent, Sussex and Wessex. It has been this way since 1948 (at least), and will not change.   The inner London area is electrified at 660V, and does grade to 750V, but it is more complicated than 660-690-750, as it depends on the rectifier type and the tappings available.  By the time you get to the M25 motorway, the change is more or less complete.  I do have a detailed map, but to explain it would take more text then this article needs.  To say that there is a grading area is sufficient.  There are eleven interfaces between Network Rail and LUL (but not all are electrified).  They are at Queens Park, Stonebridge Park, Waterloo & City Line, Wimbledon Park, Wimbledon Station, East Putney, Putney Bridge, Acton Lane Junction (between Turnham Green & Gunnersbury on the way to Richmond), Harrow South Junction, Amersham (Mantles Wood) and West Ruislip. The line north of Queens Park on the Bakerloo line is technically Network Rail, so the connection at Watford does not count (but it might do if LUL runs north of Harrow & Wealdstone), in which case the interface at Stonebridge Park Depot would disappear.  Like I said, its complicated!! ALECTRIC451 17:07, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I meant to say south of the river! I appreciate it's very complex!!! Pickle 13:30, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Southern Railway 

message: Yesterday, october 15 2006, Venezuela has opened the first electric train line (ignoring subways) in almost a century, connecting the Capital city of Caracas with the town of Cua in the south. Future growth will connect this town (and Caracas) with the rest of the country, including all major cities and towns.  Exact technical details for this line were not given, but we can safely assume 20kVA 60Hz because: 1) It is based on Japanese techonology; 2) they mentioned 20000 volts; 3) we use 60hz for alternating current.  This is the first 41 Kilometers of a national plan for building at least 13600 Km (for the entire country); most likely to use the same technology.  The system clearly shows the use of two overhead wires; maybe something else in the ground? Here is an article.
::Surely 25kV not 20kVA! Tabletop 23:56, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Venezuela 

message: Today I find the list in a mess which I cannot follow, i.e. the bottom lists for non-standard systems repeat a heading such as 1500V dc which is a standard system.
Another misunderstanding is the word current: does it stand for actual? which is not true, as the list is of actual and obsolete systems, or for electrical current? which is redundant.
So a plea to the original writer: rearrange everything in order.
Please simplify headings:it's better 1,500Vdc than 1500 V, d.c.
How about using electrical drawing notation for ac ? Remember the bars crossing the circuit line to indicate lines? 1 bar =1 line, 2 bars =2 lines, 3bars =3 lines, so 25,000V/50 Hz for single-phase, and 3,600V///16.7Hz for three-phase.
Please change 16 2/3 to 16.7 everywhere, as the metric system allows decimals only and fractions are deprecated. It's true German Railways only aligned themselves in 1995, but there is no point in continuing with this mistake.
Here's a full list of 3-phase traction:
    ?  V///??Hz Siemens Factory Experiment 1892 (variable V and F)
    200V///25Hz Panama Canal 1915
    350V///40Hz Lugano Tramway 1895
    460V///60Hz Panama Canal Authority circa 1970's
    500V///??Hz Ganz Factory Experiment 1896
    550V///40Hz Gornergratbahn originally 1898
    725V///50Hz Gornergratbahn currently  (active)
    750V///40Hz Burgdorf-Thun  1899
    800V///60Hz Corcovado Rack Rly, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil (active)
  1,125V///50Hz Matterhorn Rly and Jungfrau Rly (CH)(both active) 
  3,000V///50Hz Chemin de Fer de la Rhune (F)  (active)
  3,000V///15Hz Valtellina electrification in N.Italy FS 1902-1917
  3,300V///16.7Hz Simplon Tunnel and swiss links, SBB 1906-1930
  3,000V///15.8Hz Valtellina FS 1917-1930
  3,600V///16.7Hz Valtellina FS 1930-1953
  3,600V///16.7Hz Genoa-Turin, Turin-Frejus Tunnel-Modane(F),and
  other FS lines in Piedmont and Riviera Ligure from 1910 to 1976
  3,600V///16.7Hz Trento-Bolzano-Brennero, Bolzano-Merano FS 1929-1965
  3,600V///16.7Hz Genoa-Leghorn and Fornovo antenna FS 1926-1948
  3,600V///16.7Hz Bologna-Porretta-Firenze FS 1927-1935
  3,600V///16.7Hz Sondrio-Tirano (Ferrovia Alta Valtellina) 1932-1980
  5,200V///25Hz Gergal-SantaFe FC Sur - Spain
  6,600V///25Hz Cascade Range (Great Northern) - USA 1909-1927
  7,000V///50Hz experimental switchover Turin-Bussoleno FS 1927-1928
 10,000V///45Hz Roma-Sulmona FS 1929-1944
 10,000V///50Hz Berlin-Lichtenhain 1898-1901 (variable voltage and frequency)
 14,000V///50Hz Zossen-Marienfelde 1901-1904 (variable voltage between 
      10,000 and 14,000 volt and frequency between 38 and 48 hertz)
The above must fit as a whole sub-table, I reckon.     
Please Make wikipedia excellent!
Ciao from Dario Romani 
daromany@tiscali.it 
17:53 10 feb 2007 amended 13 feb 2007
:I have made most of the recent changes, and I respond as follows:
:(1) "Today I find the list in a mess which I cannot follow". The list has been improved, but it still a "work in progress".  The single table, that was almost impossible to read, has been replaced by many, simpler tables, and the formatting improved.  I have also given better and clearer information on each system (i.e. country and location).
:(2) The original table has not yet been fully decomposed into separate tables, this is why the 1500V d.c. system appears twice. I aim to complete the decomposition soon, and then the original table will be removed.
:(3) I am not sure what you mean about "current"?
:(4) The actual and obsolete systems are based on information provided in the original table. By your words, you are providing evidence of how poor the original table was.
:(5) "it's better 1,500Vdc than 1500 V, d.c.": A little pedantic, but problem.  Do it yourself!
:(6) "16 2/3 to 16.7".  Again, a little pedantic, but I have no major issues.  So, change it yourself!!
:I believe that I have improved the table. If you think otherwise then you can revert it. I am happy to provide a copy of the article as it was before I started changing it (for the better). --ALECTRIC451 17:12, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  OK calm down people - the table was very large and unwiedly and needed work on. Slowly the new tables are shaping up but aren't there yet. You can still see the old versions by trawling through the page's hsitory - eg http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_current_systems_for_electric_rail_traction&oldid=78284320 When we get there we can then sor tout the little things, such as whether active and inactive should be sepreated, standard and non standard voltages is the best approach, etc Pickle 18:41, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Improvements and 3-Ph.traction 

message: I forgot to mention Panama Canal Authority 200V///25Hz system, which drew power from the running rails and two other surface rails.
From their website www.pancanal.com, it appears that today's operations are quite different, so I have asked them for details.
There are many lacks in the article as it concerns many systems: for instance, in Italy we had quite few 6,600V/25Hz systems. Also, Costa Rica had a unique 15,000V/20Hz system by AEG from 1930 until the '70's.
Ciao from Dario Romani
daromany@tiscali.it
17:02 11 feb 2007   
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.221.9.209 (talk) 16:02, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Continuing on 3-Phase Traction 

message: The list has now a character of its own, and is easily readable. Thanks. I suggest to add a 3-phase list on its own, from the proof-table above.
In the meanders of change, the private railway Rheinbraun AG now appears under Russia instead of Germany, but is actually 6,000V/50Hz not 6,250V (see http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schienenfahrzeuge_von_Rheinbraun).
As far as 6,000Vdc in Russia is concerned, it was only a temporary experiment, and eventually no line has been converted from 3,000Vdc. 
Ciao from Dario Romani 17:07 CEST 15 feb 2007
: "Today I find the list in a mess which I cannot follow ..."
: "So a plea to the original writer: rearrange everything in order ..."
: --ALECTRIC451 17:34, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  List is very much improved 

message: What about Pakistan?
Tabletop 23:53, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pakistan 

message: "(rv, tube is 630V dc 4 rail (already listed above), IIRC; one rail is +ve and the extra 4th rail -ve (ie return rather than using the running rails))"
Like in Milan...and it couldn't be different.
And I think that on Paris (Lyon, Marseille, Toulouse, Montréal, ...) rubber tyred lines return is via the traditional steel rails.
Coccodrillo 17:06, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: See User talk:Pickle UK#List of current systems for electric rail traction for more talk / reply to above. Pickle 18:32, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Bordeaux uses one conductor rail, return current runs via the standard rail. The greatest part of the netowrk uses a traditional overhead line. Coccodrillo 22:24, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  DC, two electric rails for current supply 

message: Amtrak Northeast Corridor is listed three times:
*11000 / 25 Hz (DC to NYC)
*12500 / 60 Hz (not specified)
*25000 / 60 Hz (New Haven to Boston)
I suspect the first and third are correct. I wonder about the second. Rees11 15:08, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What point are you trying to make??? Why not go an do some research and then tell us. Or is this a, "why don't use guys look this up for me, because I want to know, but I've got to go out and have some fun, and I really need to someone to cover for me." Canterberry 15:55, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  The middle one looks odd, on the voltage but the 60Hz i think is on New Jersey bits of extended electrification (more research needed) 91.111.115.161 (talk) 19:54, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  The table lists "Metro-North Railroad	New York City to New Haven	Amtrak NEC trains also operate on these tracks" as 25kV 60 Hz. I believe that is incorrect.  This segment is 12.5 kV 60 Hz. (It was 25 Hz originally). It is the missing middle segment in the list above. Here is a ref . Also see AEM-7.--agr (talk) 23:02, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Amtrak NEC 

message: Any objections if I split this into AC & DC? Hugo999 (talk) 22:45, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Overhead nonstandard 

message: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolkata_Metro and their website both say it is still on DC give them a call and ask them if you please :) other than Delhi metro none of the mass transport rails within a city use AC  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.18.17.40 (talk) 09:16, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  koklota metro 

message: I find this "National Standard, although near future some lines convert to 3kV DC (north) or 25kV AC (south), Planned new High Speed Lines (including 1520mm broad gauge) will use 25 kV AC" in the 15kV/16.7 Hz table for Germany.
Is there any evidence of lines in Germany being converted from 15 kV to 3 kV or to 25 kV?  Or has this entry moved to a wrong table cell?
Also, what are the 1520mm-gauge lines in Germany?
Btw. I understand that Germany and Switzerland have changed the frequency from 16\tfrac{2}{3} Hz to 16.7 Hz--Bk1 168 (talk) 14:12, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I have seen that we have a strange guy who correlates railroad electrification systems to nordic, alpine and mediterranic races or so, which I think most of us agree is quite absurd.  So I assume that this mention of 3kV and 25 kV for Germany has been introduced in an act of vandalism or something that at least looks like vandalism to me by that IP-address-user.  So I removed it.  Hope that is ok.--Bk1 168 (talk) 06:05, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  3000 V in Germany 

message: I have never heard of this.  Is this just a mistake or is there any evidence for usage of 15 kV/16.x Hz in Mexico.  I have a tendency to remove this line in a week or so, unless somebody has reasons to keep it.--Bk1 168 (talk) 19:06, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  15 kV in Mexico 

message: Contrary to what the table claims there is no 50kV electrification in India. The article quoted says that 2^25kV is being installed. That is statement about a specific power feeding setup. The catenary voltage is 25kV. Most modern 25kV systems are actually fed using the 2*25kV setup. So the entry about Indian Railways should be removed from the50kV table.
(jis (talk) 21:30, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. Fixed it, preserving the reference to the quoted article. Tim PF (talk) 14:20, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  There is no 50kV electrification in India 

message: Post-Soviet subway systems, including Russian, Ukrainian, Belorussian and others, have a 825 V (not 750 V) nominal third rail voltage with equipment required to operate between 550 to 950 V. Does that qualify for separate section? Sashman (talk) 23:36, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd suggest putting it in the 750V section as there are already exceptions there and the 825V voltage doesn't make it fundamentally different in technology or age from other 750V systems.Alex Sims (talk) 05:35, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think it depends on the method of measuring the nominal voltage – in many electrification systems a substation's unloaded output would be 10% above nominal voltage. 750 V + 10% (= 75 V) = 825 V.06:55, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  It's probably not as simple, because this 825 V specification appears on all systems running Metrovagonmash trainsets. This includes, beyond the 1520 mm gauge systems, also the 1435 mm systems in Warsaw, Prague, Budapest and Sofia. As an example here's a source for Prague: . So I would indeed single out 825 V from 750 V systems. 2003:45:455D:AF71:208F:9EED:8311:B20E (talk) 18:14, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  825 V 

message: Bad formatting for Shenzhen. Tabletop (talk) 07:33, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shenzhen incorrect 

message: Pakistan uses 50 Hz as the electric mains grid frequency, it’s doubtful they would use 60 Hz for the railway network (although not entirely impossible). 05:40, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pakistan 60 Hz? 

message: It looks like both Circular Line in Kaohsiung and Haizhu Tram are neither having conductors, nor overhead lines, but per their official sites' documents they should also be considered as electrified rail systems. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 06:35, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Electric double-layer capacitor|EDLC]] "electrified" lines 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: The Bukit Panjang LRT line in Singapore uses a 600V AC conductor rail system to deliver power to its Bombardier Innovia APM 100 C801 and Bombardier Innovia APM 100 C801A trains, but the frequency used is unknown. I wasn't sure if I should go ahead and edit the page, so I'm just leaving this here on the talk page.
Fire Snyper (talk) 14:54, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  600V AC in Singapore 

message: 750 volts is in use in the uk but isn't put down 2006toyotacorrola (talk) 09:46, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  750 v dc