Talk:Bachelor of Medicine, Bachelor of Surgery

message: Updated some info and removed some irrelevant and outdated material.
Is it still correct to tag this article with not containing a worldwide perspective?? Ranjitointernational 22:10, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Could I suggest that someone create articles for all the various equivalent degree titles (such as BMBCh) and redirect them to this page, please? --88.97.11.54 21:04, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I did not mean to suggest that "BM BS" is necessarily the most common version of the name in practice, but your edit changed the text so that it no longer made sense, suggesting as it did that "BM BS" is a combination of Latin and English abbreviations, when it is patently a direct abbreviation of the English version alone. I have changed the text slightly in order to remove the confusion. --Kwekubo 22:28, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  BMBCh and variants 

message: The UK medical education should adapt the bologna process as the Australian one did. It means that the medical curriculum should be at masters' level due to the ETCS (European Credit Transfer System) which normally takes at least 240 ETCS credits not just only 120- 180 ETCS as normal bachelors' degree. The British universities are trying to lobby their students by giving multiple degree at the same time of graduation such BSc/MBBS (bachelor of Sciences/ Bachelor of Medicine, Bachelor of Surgery) so on and so far. However, it seems nonsense and useless to do so. It is supposed to follow the criteria of Bologna process and to give MD (Doctor of Medicine) degree to their graduates as most of European countries do. Logically, degree in medicine is considered strongly to be a professional degree which means that the degree identify their job as a skillful-designed person in the field. The UK system (MBBS or MBChB= bachelors' degree) tried to illuminate their graduates by giving courtesy title of "Dr." (seem to be more criticized by many other academic scholars in other majors that they should not be called Dr. if they have no word "doctor" in their degrees) to them in to make not to feel inferior than other who get MD degree (such most other European and the US graduates).
To get a PhD in medicine does mean that those people are very outstanding in the field because it is just a philosophy not a real professional one, It is the specialist training or specialist registrar who will give them this achievement. If the adapttion is done, it is not so complicated to covert the name of their current MD degree (higher or first doctorate) to a Doctor of Medical Sciences (DMedSc or MedScD) in order to distinguish the professional and research doctorate. 203.144.65.118 (talk) 05:13, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: The UK Medical degrees vs European countries and Bologna Process

message: How the title of "doctor" was retained when the doctoral degree was abandoned is unclear, Outside medicine, academic disputations and examinations had gone out of vogue over the 18th century. The Bar examinations of the Inns of Court were not re-established until late in the 19th century, and at first they were optional. At Oxbridge ordinary BAs could be obtained without examination, and both residence and examination had been abolished for the MA. The other doctorates (DD and LLD) were normally awarded without examination to academics or professionals in mid or late career. At medical schools, many took no degree, or went elsewhere to qualify. Medicine outside the English cities was largely practiced by non-graduates, who might be addressed as "doctor" like their rivals the Scottish MDs. There were also many unqualified assistants. Some who claimed to be MDs had taken no examination and submitted no thesis.
In earlier times, fully qualified surgeons had been addressed as "master" or "maister:" possibly the title used by senior members of a craft guild in the middle ages, but laid down by the original royal charters of the bodies that became the Royal Colleges of Surgeons in London and Edinburgh and the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Glasgow. This term died out, but may have contributed to the use of "Mister" by British surgeons.
The Royal College of Physicians of London had in the past claimed that its Fellows had the status of MDs: perhaps by analogy with similar bodies in pre-Napoleonic Europe, which examined candidates for doctorates. The similar body in Edinburgh had examined MD candidates before the university there had a medical faculty, but it was the university that awarded the degrees. The RCPL allowed its licentiates (who were up to the mid-19th century probably Oxbridge Bachelors of Medicine) to be called "doctor." The first registrar of the new General Medical Council had previously been registrar of the RCPL: when he acknowledged the applications of Licentiates of the Royal College of Physicians of Edinburgh he addressed them likewise as "doctor" on the receipt for the fee. This was taken as sufficient authority for LRCPEs to begin using the title. The RCPE had attracted some opprobrium for holding a "year of grace" in which experienced medical men with another qualification, or none, could acquire their licence on the basis of testimonials. The RCPL had acted similarly. 
Even after university degrees became available in London, students at the teaching hospitals there commonly took the examinations of the Royal Colleges as insurance in case of failure: but there was no feeling that these diplomas were required to become a "doctor." It may be that since what were still regarded as lesser qualifications were enough to confer the title of "doctor," there was little question of the eligibility of bachelors of medicine: by argumentum a fortiori.
The accounts given above lack important details. I have not seen a full explanation, in official histories of the medical corporations, of the reason for changing the degrees or keeping the title, probably because much of this does not reflect credit on the persons and bodies involved. NRPanikker (talk) 01:32, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why are Bachelors of Medicine addressed as "Doctor"? 

message: At present Columbia University's predecessor, King's College in New York, is listed among the North American institutions that originally gave Bachelor of Medicine degrees. However the reference given, to the university's own website, is silent about the MB and states only that in 1767 its medical school was the first to award the MD degree in North America. Can the earlier award of the MB be referenced? NRPanikker (talk) 20:41, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  MB in North America 

message: The article Ch.B. is a pointless stub about one of the many abbreviations for one of the two degrees. There really is no need for it. Timrollpickering (talk) 09:50, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Now merged. Timrollpickering (talk) 10:29, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merger proposal 

message: "At the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge, the preclinical course leads to an additional Bachelor of Arts (BA), degree (upgradable after three or four years to Master of Arts), after which most students used to go elsewhere (but usually to one of the London teaching hospitals) to complete clinical training. They could then take the degrees of their new university: they used to have the options of returning to their old university to take the clinical examinations, or taking one of the old non-university qualifying examinations."
This is incorrect. After being awarded a BA in medical science or a related discipline, at the conclusion of the pre-clinical course, in oxford at least around 80% each year stay on to do their clinical training in Oxford itself. In Cambridge, though a larger number go to the London teaching hospitals, around 50% stay on (I'm less sure on this number). A small number of people also transfer between the two after completing their pre-clinical training. The latter sentence also seems to be confusing and, at least to me.
I suggest:
At the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge completion of the three year preclinical course leads to the award of a Bachelor of Arts (BA) degree. Students may then apply to continue clinical training at their own university, to transfer between the two, or to transfer to one of the London teaching hospitals. The BM. BCh. Degree, or equivalent, is awarded by the clinical school they attend on successful completion of another three years of study. The application to clinical school application is competitive. Around 80% of Oxford students and 50% of Cambridge students stay at their original university for clinical training.
I will try to find some references for the above. Any comments appreciated. 
Foxgrey (talk) 19:00, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Oxford and Cambridge

message: I don't see the point in grouping Northern Ireland and England in this article - especially considering Wales and Scotland are separate and Northern Ireland is mentioned again with Ireland. It either makes sense to group Northern Ireland under Ireland and keep the current entry, removing the one with England. Or it could be made with Northern Ireland separate like Wales and Scotland. It just seems random to group England in Northern Ireland if you don't group the rest of the UK with England. 78.109.180.14 (talk) 08:41, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why Group Northern Ireland and England? 

message: The article was verbose and hard to understand. The MBBS is basically a route obtain a physician license without the foolish requirement to get a bachelor's degree. Bennet Omalu is a good example of this tradition.--98.88.130.168 (talk) 23:08, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  High School to School of Medicine 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110716103659/http://www.mona.uwi.edu/fms/docs/MBBS%20Regulations.pdf to http://www.mona.uwi.edu/fms/docs/MBBS%20Regulations.pdf
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: User:drchriswilliams If you are a POV editor please think like a NPOV editor. Is a bachelor degree and a doctoral degree equivalent? MD is using instead of MBBS in America or "followers of American system" countries.
4 types of degrees in education system.
1.Associate Degree 
2.Bachelor Degree:MBBS
 3.Master’s Degree 
4.Doctoral Degree:MD 
So,MD degree is higher level degree than MBBS and using instead of MBBS but not equivalent! Dr.SunBD (talk) 18:48, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I reinstated referenced material that you had removed without adequately explaining why. It is difficult to interpret the incoherent musings provided above. This article is about a primary medical qualification, and the lead of this article comments upon equivalent medical degrees with some references attached. The linked :Doctor of Medicine article opens with a description that it is a medical degree, but notes that the meaning of this varies between different jurisdictions. Drchriswilliams (talk) 19:04, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Doctor of medicine (MD) and MBBS are not equivalent! 

message: I want admission mbbs in Bangladesh 2409:4061:4E1D:4872:E0A1:66D1:61FD:44F5 (talk) 07:23, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: You need to get the registrar of a medical school in Bangladesh to to look here to see your application, but it may not be valid without your name. NRPanikker (talk) 19:45, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mbbs 

message: Medicinae Baccalaureus Baccalaureus Chirurgiae 139.5.73.133 (talk) 17:53, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Medicinae Baccalaureus Baccalaureus Chirurgiae 

message: The section on US distinctions is incorrect. At the end it states "The MD title is distinctly used in the US for physicians who earned their medical degree in the US who practice evidence-based medicine. They separate themselves from DOs who go through a different type of education and training that focuses on the patient as a whole and an array of treatments inclusive of medicine and surgery as well" DOs practice evidence based medicine, and it is a part of both the education and the licensing exams. I don't want to start the process of editing, but I will include a citation to the licensing exam and one school's curriculum guide to provide evidence for my claim. If someone is willing to take the time to fix the article, I would appreciate it!
Citations: https://www.nbome.org/assessments/comlex-usa/master-blueprint/competency-domains/improvement-in-osteopathic-medical-practice/
https://www.une.edu/com/curriculum-0 76.179.10.80 (talk) 11:50, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Evidence based medicine