Talk:Kingdom of Ireland

message: Table is broken, someone with more knowledge fix it. Behemoth01 20:48, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Table broken

message: This is fine, but it should really point out that there were several major individual Irish kingdoms that lasted into the early years of the 1600's. Fergananim 17:45, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: A lot missing

message: I have opened a discussion on a reorganisation of the series of articles dealing with Irish history at Talk:History of Ireland#RFC: Irish history series. --RA (talk) 23:08, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  RFC: Irish history series 

message: Many of the dates shown, especially the date ranges in the box at top right, seem incorrect, as they are of the format '1659-1801' when, with some possible exceptions, they probably should mostly be of the format '1659-1800', as the Union came into effect on the first day of 1801. Because of possible exceptions unknown to me, I hesitate to correct this myself, but some editor more expert than me might perhaps correct the erroneous 1801s, and include some note explaining why any given exception has been retained. Tlhslobus (talk) 09:27, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  1800 v 1801: Apparent dating inconsistencies/errors 

message: The opening paragraph gives only Ríoghacht Éireann, whereas Note 2 gives both Ríoghacht Éireann and Ríocht Éireann in different places. And, though I can't be sure, I would expect that Ríoghacht na hÉireann and/or Ríocht na hÉireann may also get used, possibly erroneously, either at the time or in more recent writing, if only because Ríoghacht/Ríocht na hÉireann is the literal word-for-word translation of 'Kingdom of Ireland', just as Poblacht na hÉireann is used to translate 'Republic of Ireland' (plus I'm also thinking of 'ríocht na greine' - kingdom of the sun - in Monsignor Padraig de Brun's poem Valporaiso). As this kind of issue must have frequently arisen before, there may already be some Wikipedia policy on the matter of which I'm unaware. So I'd prefer to leave any fix to some editor more expert than me. Tlhslobus (talk) 09:50, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I think there's no harm in replacing the hidden comment at the beginning with "(Modern Irish: Ríocht Éireann)", since it's in the cited source. I don't see any particular benefit in adding more alternatives that "may get used".  Scolaire (talk) 12:38, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks. I've added it in as 'Modern spelling', along with a couple of supporting links Tlhslobus (talk) 17:31, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

text: In the context of Ireland I would question the translation of 'kingdom' to 'riocht' (or any other version). The King of Ireland would have been referred to as 'Ard Rí', rather than simply 'Rí'. Ireland would have had a number of regional kings, who would have been refered to as 'Ri', but who would have been subservient to the 'Ard Ri', or high king https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_King_of_Ireland. Therefore when talking about a kingdom of the whole island the correct translation for me would be Ard Ríocht Éireann, or some variation.Qside (talk) 14:14, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The kingdom being talked about here is the kingdom established by Henry VIII of England, long after the last of the High Kings. --Tóraí (talk) 20:20, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ríoghacht Éireann v Ríocht Éireann v Ríoghacht/Ríocht na hÉireann ? 

message: "Féach ár bpain le sé chéad bliain aige Gaill in éigean, gan rí dár rialadh de Ghaeil, mo chian, i ríoghacht Éireann" This is in the Vincent Morley reference (currently refernce 3), but an accurate translation needs to be added, as this is English Wikipedia. I also suspect there are misspellings, such as 'bpian' (or maybe bpían), meaning 'pain', rather than 'bpain'. A crude translation probably runs something like 'Look at our pain with 600 years of foreigners in control, without a king from our Gaelic rulers, my dear, in the Kingdom of Ireland', but I'd appreciate if somebody could check and correct it, please, as well as checking for possible Gaelic misspellings, as already mentioned. Tlhslobus (talk) 17:31, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: There's the ref in Google Books. Correct spelling and translation are both there. Personally, I think the quote is ridiculously long just to cite the fact that Ríoghacht Éireann was the Irish for "Kingdom of Ireland". By the way, there is now one footnote inside the parenthesis and one outside, which looks funny.  Scolaire (talk) 22:28, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for that most useful link, which we may want to stick in the article. I don't know who put the quote there, but I think he or she was probably wise. The quote isn't simply about translation, but about establishing that (at least some) Irish-speaking Catholics at the time saw Ríoghacht Éireann as the name of their country. Without the quote, hardline Republicans and/or fundamentalist republicans are liable to demand that the entire article be renamed on grounds that 'Kingdom of Ireland' is some kind of 'alien British concept'. If anything I'd be inclined to put in more of the quote, but putting in your link will do fine instead, plus translating the line plus correcting the spelling, which I hope to do later. As for the footnotes looking funny, the one inside the parenthesis refers solely to 'Ríocht Éireann', while the one outside refers to everything from the start of the sentence. Indeed originally I put the footnote beside 'Ríocht', as it's a link to a dictionary that shows that Ríocht (with a fada over the i) is the correct modern spelling (I felt this mattered, especially as there was no fada in the Morley quote, at least as currently shown in the article; I'll put the fada in there too but only if it's in the Morley book). I then shifted the footnote to make 'Ríocht Éireann' easier to read. I can put it outside the parenthesis if you tell me you still think that would be better having read my explanation (or if you prefer, please feel free to shift it yourself). Tlhslobus (talk) 21:01, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Simple WP rule IIRC: footnotes always go outside the punctuation, be it full stop, comma or parenthesis.  Scolaire (talk) 23:52, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair enough, but, since you've mentioned a rule, ideally I'd prefer to check the rule myself, in case there are relevant exceptions, and, as you can see from the red ink, WP:IIRC does not exist, so would you by any chance be able to give me the correct address of the rule? WP:IAR (Ignore All Rules if they prevent an article being improved, etc) may also be relevant in this case, though I'm not sure whether it is, as it's always going to be a matter of subjective opinion whether or not this would be an exception that improved the article. Can I assume you think it disimproves the article, regardless of what the rule says? Because if you tell me that you think it does, I'll be happy enough to go along with that, especially given that I'm not particularly convinced that my contrary view is correct, plus I don't want to waste too much time on a seemingly rather trivial issue. Tlhslobus (talk) 11:31, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: IIRC means "if I remember correctly". You'll find the rule in the Manual of Style or How to write an article or some such place. I don't care what you do, I just mentioned that it looks funny. Happy editing.  Scolaire (talk) 11:40, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

text: He was wrong as well, as (at least) Henry IV of England was Lord of Ireland from 1399; he was descended from Aoife MacMurrough and the Leinster dynasty. Henry was not a culturally-Gaelic king as far as we know, but just as descended from them as any other king.78.19.211.155 (talk) 20:53, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation, please 

message: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ireland has been notified of recent flag changes. Laurel Lodged (talk) 14:31, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flags prior to the Kingdom 

message: The claim that Ireland was a 'Constitutional Monarchy' from 1542 until 1800 is sufficiently strange to require a citation from Reliable sources. I note that it we describe it as a client state of the Kingdom of England up to 1707, and the Kingdom of England is currently described (without supporting citations) as a unitary parliamentary monarchy, but NOT as a constitutional monarchy, a term that we currently first use (again without citation) for the Kingdom of Great Britain, from 1707. If reliable sources cannot be found fairly soon for Ireland being a Constitutional Monarchy throughout the relevant period, I suggest we use a similar formula to that for England - parliamentary Monarchy, since it clearly was a Monarchy, and clearly had a parliament, throughout the period in question. Tlhslobus (talk) 11:41, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, there isn't a clear distinction between an absolute and constitutional monarchy, so it's better to leave the body to explain this. A "parliamentary state" generally refers to a democracy since it is referring to the full democratic system of governance, not just the structure. That said, post-12th century England wasn't really ever an absolute monarchy, and there was always to some extent a divide of power between the parliament and monarch. Maybe a suitable description would be "monarchy with executive legislature"? This clarifies that there was a separate legislature with some power, but not necessarily democratic. Rob984 (talk) 13:43, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, Rob984. On the England and GB articles I've now re-linked 'parliamentary' to the relevant 'parliament of ...' articles rather than to 'parliamentary system' with the edit description that the latter article is about democracies. I'll wait and see how those 2 changes fare before considering doing the same for UK of GB+Ireland(1801-1922). We might want to consider doing the same here (assuming the relevant 'parliament of ...' article exists, or creating it if it doesn't). Tlhslobus (talk) 19:58, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

text: The relevant article does exist.Tlhslobus (talk) 20:01, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citation Needed for 'Constitutional Monarchy' 

message: This state is "on Ireland" in the same way that "Killarney is on Ireland". Just like you might say "Bob was on Rathlin Island last week". Why "on" rather than "in"? Because as far as I know, the hundreds of islands surrounding Ireland were also, at various times, under the control of the kingdom. "in Ireland" is quite implicit in excluding other islands, whereas "on Ireland" is certainly less so, if at all. Unless you mean "Ireland" in the sense of the all-Ireland country of Ireland—which would be contentious. Would you feel happier with "on the island of Ireland"? Because "in the island of Ireland" is wrong, and "in Ireland" either implies either in the island of Ireland, or some wider use of the term "Ireland" that is contentious among the British in the North. Rob984 (talk) 12:34, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you know of any Kingdom article that uses "on" to indicate the geography? Laurel Lodged (talk) 13:39, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: No I don't. But how many examples are there similar to this one? I can't think of any. Most kingdoms state "spanned", "encompassed", "covered" or "occupied", and then refer to the area of the island that they cover. Eg, "[the Kingdom of Scotland] came to occupy the northern third of the island of Great Britain". This kingdom's area varied so much that it would require more explanation. Hence why we can't state "encompassed Ireland", or "covered X part of Ireland". What exactly is wrong with using "on" when describing a kingdom on an island? It is however strange (maybe even wrong?) to state "Killarney is in the island of Ireland"—so unless we are using some other meaning of "Ireland", it's poor wording at least. I can give you examples of other polities being described as "on" geographic entities: "Portugal ...is a country on the Iberian Peninsula" and "Stornoway is a town on the Isle of Lewis". Rob984 (talk) 14:42, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  "in Ireland" or "on Ireland" 

message: I've requested semi=protection for this page and Lordship of ireland as I've got sick and tired of the ip keeping on doing exactly the same edit and it keeping on being reverted. It's been happening since last June. Dmcq (talk) 18:55, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protection 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: As I have brought up on Talk: Puppet state about clients and puppets, shouldn't the Kingdom of Ireland be called a "puppet state" and not a "client state" as a client state is a more general term than a puppet state? Please correct me if I'm wrong. Conner Neu (talk) 00:36, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: In the same way as New York (state) is a puppet state of the USA, but is not described as such? Let's not get into the degrees of oversight defining puppet states. Between 1542 and 1800 maybe 99% of the political decisions were made and debated locally; the larger decisions about sovereignty, international trade, royalty etc., were made in London, and that was based on the fact of the "personal union".78.16.76.68 (talk) 18:23, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shouldn't this be a Puppet State? 

message: The following coordinate fixes are needed for
—84.224.105.61 (talk) 16:17, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Although you haven't said what you think is wrong with the coordinates that were in the article, I've changed the title coordinates to better correspond to a location near the center of the country. If you still think that there is an error, you'll need to provide a clear explanation of what it is. Deor (talk) 18:55, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  lk