Talk:Jim Goad

message: With all the editing that has been going on here I'm surprised to find that the talk page has never been used. The article is now locked down for three days, I suggest you all use this time to discuss these issues, although I have also had to block one of the primary combatants for making a legal threat. Note that WP:EDITWAR makes no distinctions about reverting anything that is not blatant vandalism, so when the protection expires everyone who had been edit warring can consider themselves on notice that it will not be tolerated. Beeblebrox (talk) 18:45, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  cease fire 

message: The article citation incorrectly states Jim Goad was accepted to NYU. It only says he WANTED to go to NYU. Machinegunetiq (talk) 23:20, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  education & background 

message: This article in The Portland Tribune says Goad served 29 months of prison time for assault on Sky Ryan, and for attempted kidnapping of her. Anything written in this Wikipedia biography about the case should be published in reliable sources such as The Portland Tribune and the article "American Psycho" written by RJ Smith for SPIN magazine. Nothing written here can be supported solely by Goad's own website. The stringent requirements of WP:BLP apply to this biography of a living person. Binksternet (talk) 19:33, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. The sources are very clear on the history here. I just restored a section removed on his arrest record removed by another editor; hopefully they will clarify their concerns here. VQuakr (talk) 02:56, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I found the section lacking, one sided, and quite amateurish for the standards that Wikipedia tries to set for itself.  The fact that domestic violence occurred is a matter of public record, and therefore isn't up for debate.  However, phrases like "he dumped her on the side of the road" are vague and amateurish. (What exactly is "the road" other than a generalizing phrase?)  Also, since the SPIN article makes mention of the voicemails Ryan sent Goad, I would propose those recordings be linked here as well: MP3 Format NateTheHun (talk) 03:30, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: No freekin' way anything from jimgoad.net is going to be presented here as supposed evidence against his accuser in court. The word "dumped" is descriptive and graphic, but could possibly be replaced with something equivalent. Do you have any suggestions? Binksternet (talk) 03:40, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: This isn't a courtroom, and it's not being proposed as any kind of evidence.  However, since the point was brought up, and if I may say in a VERY biased fashion, the recordings are more than relevant, at least for archival purposes in the face of the issue.  As for "dumped on the side of the road," I would suggest a more nominal, less venomous re-phrasing or rewrite, perhaps taking cues from other impartial sources on the event. NateTheHun (talk) 03:53, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I was looking for specific wording suggestions from you, and I am looking forward to seeing your version. Again, there is no possible way that files from jimgoad.net will be presented in this article, per WP:BLP where accusations against another living person must be extremely well sourced. Goad's website is not a reliable source, not an independent source. Binksternet (talk) 04:27, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps say that she was left on a Portland road/street/highway after the assault? NateTheHun (talk) 04:37, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I changed the word "dumped" to "left" as that seems less loaded and neither source uses the word "dumped" that I can see. VQuakr (talk) 05:00, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I also reversed the parties involved in the restraining order as whoever wrote the entry had it backwards.  From page 106 of the SPIN article, last paragraph: "Goad had a restraining order issued against Ryan and still the couple would get back together." NateTheHun (talk) 20:56, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: They both obtained restraining orders against each other; Ryan's was the later one. Binksternet (talk) 21:02, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, it was Debbie who issued the first one, then it was Goad against Ryan on the second one. I put this stuff in the article. Binksternet (talk) 21:20, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Prison time

message: Why are some of the quotations in italics? Not cool. Yours, GeorgeLouis (talk) 19:42, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I took out the italics. VQuakr (talk) 02:59, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Italics. 

message: I'm wondering why Binksternet decided to re-add the family section when he himself deemed Goad's wife and son irrelevant in an edit. NateTheHun (talk) 21:25, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I've been consistent on the family, leaving that bit in place. I think it is interesting for the reader where he lives, etc. Binksternet (talk) 00:31, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: That's an awfully shaky statement to make, there.  Why would you think anyone would be interested in his family and residence? NateTheHun (talk) 06:16, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It's simple biographical information, common to Wikipedia articles about people who have families, and have information published about them. Binksternet (talk) 06:59, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: From your own words, it's also irrelevant.  You said that his wife and son are unlikely to be of any importance on the edit history page, so what exactly do you get from putting them back on the main page? Also, what is the point in making the article subjectively interesting when it's supposed to be an encyclopedia entry?NateTheHun (talk) 07:04, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: My only thought was/is that family information is often included in Wikipedia biographies. It's not more complicated than that. Binksternet (talk) 07:10, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, the Family section is irrelevant.  I'm reverting it, as there's really no published mention of them anywhere except Goad's own page. NateTheHun (talk) 22:07, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

text: Very good! And please make it shorter and have it take less on the extremely detailed personal subjects and put a bit more emphasis on the broader publicly relevant issues. This emphasis on Jim Goad's personal life is best suited on his personal website. As far as I can tell, most of this is not much more than a very personal and poorly disguised advertising campaign. Most of it is not relevant in a encyclopediatic way apart from a celebrity who-is-who, which Wikipedia is not. Shortening redundancies is generally a good thing! --85.181.47.102 (talk) 06:50, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

text: Thanks for redeveloping the material. I would counter the IP's concern by pointing out that Goad's abusive relationships have been covered in widely seen periodicals, and that they form an important part of how the public sees him. Binksternet (talk) 13:19, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Family 

message: I'm rewriting this article currently on my user space. All the information is developing as fully cited through reliable secondary sources and will follow in the footsteps of quality BLP's. Just giving you all an FYI. Rock on! :)  SarahStierch (talk) 04:11, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Very good! And please make it shorter and have it take less on the extremely detailed personal subjects and put a bit more emphasis on the broader publicly relevant issues. This emphasis on Jim Goad's personal life is best suited on his personal website. As far as I can tell, most of this is not much more than a very personal and poorly disguised advertising campaign. Most of it is not relevant in a encyclopediatic way apart from a celebrity who-is-who, which Wikipedia is not. Shortening redundancies is generally a good thing! --85.181.47.102 (talk) 06:50, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

text: Thanks for redeveloping the material. I would counter the IP's concern by pointing out that Goad's abusive relationships have been covered in widely seen periodicals, and that they form an important part of how the public sees him. Binksternet (talk) 13:19, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Cleanup/Rewrite/Formatting

message: Out of curiosity, why is no mention made of just how virulently racist a lot of what he's written for Taki's Mag is? http://takimag.com/article/the_day_i_left_the_left/print#ixzz1ZlHAHk8U is a great example, reading like something from a white power newsletter.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.18.48.27 (talk) 17:01, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: While I agree that the racism of Goad's writing belongs in the article, be sure to have a reliable source documenting it. It is not our role to read his essays and add a judgment of their content to an encyclopedia. Msalt (talk) 19:05, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Racism 

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*Attempted to fix sourcing for http://www.nypress.com/article-6057-jim-goad-is-a-bad-man.html
*Attempted to fix sourcing for http://www.portlandtribune.com/features/story.php?story_id=12327
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Substituted at 19:53, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I am unaware as to why this page has suddenly been protected.  Whether vandalism or otherwise, this page should be freely available to edit and correct, as Mr. Goad expounds upon his life and life happenings on a consistent basis, often adding new information or changing what he had said before.
: Jim Goad is not free to "expound upon his life and life happenings" on his wikipedia page. That is an extreme conflict of interest. Msalt (talk) 18:48, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unprotect this page 

message: Regardless of anyone's personal opinion of Mr. Goad, I'm not sure what the straight-up ad copy in the "Early life" section is doing in this article. The lone citation doesn't support the idea that he suffered violence from nuns, only that he endured "torturous boredom," and "learned to fight back" is a staggeringly friendly description of his admitted violence against women, including multiple sexual partners. 2601:285:302:7AA0:BDB0:AE8D:DE30:72D3 (talk) 10:14, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: On a related note, I removed a press-release type quote in the writing style section. The only source was unreliable -- "Counter-Currents" is an extremist publication of the neo-Nazi right wing, described by the SPLC as "an epicenter of 'academic' white nationalism." In fact, the author of the review that was used in the article, Matthew Parrott, founded an openly neo-Nazi political party (the Traditionalist Workers Party) that was involved in violence at several rallies including both Charlottesville rallies. Msalt (talk) 19:03, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: well-spotted! - David Gerard (talk) 08:38, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thank you! On a related note, there was a quote box of Goad defending his crime as "defending his life." I removed that as both self-promotion (or excuses, whatever you want to call it) and also as an unverified claim against Ryan, a living person who also should not be accused of crimes without reliable sources backing that up. Msalt (talk) 18:14, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Self-promotion 

message: I've semi-protected this article for a week under WP:BLP, because of the moving IP persistently messing with the article. If anyone objects, please say so. If the editor would like that change in, they need a reliable source to support it - David Gerard (talk) 13:57, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Took protection down and the IP came straight back - asking for longer - David Gerard (talk) 13:27, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protection for a week under [[WP:BLP]] 

message: "June 12th, 1961" https://www.discogs.com/de/artist/434527-Jim-Goad
"Goad met Debbie Rosalie, who was eight years older" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Goad#1980s%E2%80%9390s
Correction: seven years older (she was born 1954, he 1961) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debbie_Goad 2A02:8109:25C0:6C8:395F:74A0:5B2C:28E1 (talk) 12:04, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  birth date 

message: I have credible sources stating Jim Goad's new residence.  Can this be added? 2600:6C51:713F:9E00:8DE7:8854:43A9:478 (talk) 05:56, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: If you are referring to a specific address, almost certainly not. A city or state can be reasonable, depending on your sources. List your sources here and reopen the request then. Also see WP:BLPPRIVACY. Cannolis (talk) 08:53, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 22 August 2022