Talk:International Fixed Calendar

message: I see that Simon J Kissane created this article and Janet Davis wikified it. Simon, would you mind citing the origin for the proposal?
This article smelled a little partisan to me, so I spent a few minutes doing some research. I found http://www.calendarreform.org/, started by Canadian Miklós Lente. He offers four different proposals for calendar reform. None of them refer to "Sol," though. It sounds like Yet Another Idealistic Pipedream – more like Esperanto than the metric system (please pardon my bias – after all, I'm restricting it to this /Talk page :-). Still, in the spirit of neutral point of view I merely seek the source of the idea so that all readers can judge its value with full knowledge of its history.
<>< Tim Chambers
:I agree with your evaluation in re: pipedreams, Tim, but the United Nations briefly considered it - not terribly seriously, I think.  The French Revolution and the Soviet Union each tried 'reformed' weeks.  The Soviets had a 10-day week.  It didn't take.  The combination of Christianity AND the 'workers' thinking they had fewer days off stopped it.  As in all things calendrical I keep wishing I could find my copy of Eviatar Zerubavel's The Seven Day Week, which is incredibly informative as well as a good read. --MichaelTinkler
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I read it somewhere, I'm sorry I can't recall where... when the United Nations considered calendar reform in the 1950s it and the World calendar were the two main proposals. Now I look at it a bit more, maybe I have the name of the thing wrong... I'm sure I've read it called the "Perpetual Calendar" somewhere, but all I can find is a reference to the "International Fixed Calendar" or the "Cotsworth calendar" or the "Eastman plan"... the thing obviously had a lot of names.  Okay, have a look at this website: http://personal.ecu.edu/mccartyr/13-month.htm -- Simon J Kissane
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I recall reading about this calendar in the Encyclopedia Britannia when I was at primary school c.1980. My recollection was that it was there called something like 'World International calendar'. The article named the extra month 'Sol' (not 'Midi').
Incidentally the reason I read about it was that I and my brother had independently invented this calendar (aged about 12), almost identical in detail, and subsequently discovered it in the encyclopedia. By strange coincidence we had even also (jokingly) proposed the name 'Sol' for the extra month (!) but decided to opt instead for the more poetic 'Midsummer', which incidentally I see now is also like a conflation of 'Midi' and 'Sol'.
The only difference between our calendar and this one was that we had the leap day at the end of the year, on the grounds that (i) it wouldn't disrupt the week pattern mid-year (and hence disrupt e.g. the mapping from day count from the start of the year onto named dates), and (ii) people would generally be on holiday on New Year's Eve and so the fact that it was an irregular date would be less disruptive to business and the like. Ben Finn 17:48, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [Untitled]

message: I independently invented a calendar that was the same as this, but named the 13th month different and placed it one month after the International Fixed Calendar's (IFC) extra month. I made Java code to convert a Gregorian date to the International Fixed Calendar.  Should I post the source code on a subpage of my user page and link to it, or posted here in the same manner as that at Doomsday algorithm, or what?
Hope some one answers this.
Lee S. Svoboda 22:21, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  converter program and other stuff 

message: The name Sol for the thirteenth month sounds rather unsuitable for month name system, based on the Latin names (January, February, etc.). Wouldn't it be more logical to follow the Latin names, use 'Undecimber' and place it after December?
And let languages that does not use the Latin system, invent their own name for the thirteenth month.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.126.3.19 (talk) 14:44, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that sol means the sun.
I guess that their is no point in having a monday-sunday naming system since the days of each month always stay the same right?--judas (talk) 12:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

text: I agree with you that the extra month should be put after december and kept with the current naming scheme. It makes more sense that way.(Drumz0rz (talk) 13:11, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This talk page for the International Fixed Calendar article is for discussions on how to improve the article, not on how to improve the calendar.  Thanks. --Macrakis (talk) 13:59, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Besides, putting the extra month in the middle means that the similarly named months in this calendar still roughly correspond with the months in the Gregorian calendar. Otherwise the difference would keep increasing with each subsequent month, but with the extra month in the middle the difference is minimized. 83.84.34.219 (talk) 11:10, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why Sol? 

message: The information on this page about the 13 month calendar is not correct because the dates of the beginning and end are not accurate.  The calendar actually starts on July 26 and ends on July 24 and the out of time day is July 25 of each year.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.83.252.230 (talk • contribs) 
:Note: I transferred this comment from the article. Mindmatrix 18:58, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: 13 month calendar

message: While this could be placed in the general list of calendars, I put it here because its a derivative of the IFC
First, to why Sol.... I don't have access to the Royal Society of Canada transcripts or any other article scraps on Cotsworth or Eastman, but the with the placement of the month overlaying the summer solstice, did he ever mention solstice? The summer solstice would be on the 3rd day. 
Second, notable other calendars (on this page) should list the Sol calendar. That may mean it would also need to be added to the wiki as a calendar. 
http://calendars.wikia.com/wiki/Sol_Calendar
  
This listing is an important link for this page not just because it is a derivative, but because it does address several of the CON's i.e. the religious dates. Making 7 days a week i.e. added days are part of a week, and leap days would not affect the second half of the year.  
--While less "business" due to not being perpetual, it is possibly more acceptable to the "people" side and thus a viable option for adoption and listing.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pmheart6 (talk • contribs) 13:45, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sol Calendar? 

message: This statement quoted from Article under Advantages section is invalid, "Every day of the month falls on the same weekday in each month (e.g. the 17th always falls on a Tuesday)."
: This is factually invalid, as when a leap date is added, we do not add a day. 
: This means that for every leap year from year 0, the calendar would slip by a day for the date.
: So you'd have 1st of Apr as sunday, then after leap year would be monday, then tuesday and so on.  
- comment added by Arun 02:00, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text:   Like Year Day, Leap Day is not a day of any week (or month) in this calendar and therefore does not have a day of the week designation. As a holiday between a Saturday and a Sunday, it is part of a long weekend. The article already explains this. — Christoph Päper 11:20, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disputed - Date and Day are fixed 

message: Is there a year zero in this calendar?
Does it start from "year 0" or "year 1"?--95.10.2.253 (talk) 13:46, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Year Zero 

message: If this calendar was to be used internationally, the whole world must then agree on which day is the first day of the week. The Gergorian calendar doesn't define which day is the first of the week, so different nations has agreed on different first day of the week, such as Sunday in the Americas, Monday in Europe, Saturday in the Middle East. So the disadvantage with the International Fixed Calendar is that most people will have to use a different first day of the week, or that the week starts with their preferred weekday which would make the weekdays not match up between the nations. – I couldn't find this listed on the article; but this is a significant issue. §Numbered days of the week – Liggliluff (talk) 01:24, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: That's true in principle. However, the closest to an international agreement there is, would be an ISO standard and there is one, ISO 8601, which unambiguously and uniformly specifies Monday as the first and Sunday as the last day of a calendar week. — Christoph Päper 12:36, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disadvantages, first day of the week 

message: I've made an image and would like to see it on the article. However I'm not a regular wikipedia editor and thus don't know if it's appropriate. So I'll leave it to you to decide. Here's the file:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fixedcalendar_2018.png  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.217.205.148 (talk) 08:45, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: This image doesn't appear to include any information about leap days. Perhaps if you could cubit a revised version that more clear than the text equivalent currently in the article it will be added? Kai Johnstone (talk) 13:37, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image 

message: : "Expiration dates on food items will have to be converted to the new calendar, and checking the dates to make sure the food is fresh could become harder and more confusing as a result, in the first couple years after the switch."
This is actually not an issue. You decide in advance that "in year 2034, this new calendar will be used from 1 January", because that year starts with a Sunday and the transition will be seamless. All food produced that will have an expiration date in 2034 or later will take the new calendar into account, and before 2034 will take the Georgian calendar into account. This is a non-issue; unless you have food right now that has an expiration date past 2034. Liggliluff (talk) 16:41, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disadvantage? Food expiry date 

message: The last of the disadvantages (beginning with "A vast amount of administrative data [...]", seems not so much a disadvantage to the International Fixed Calendar in particular, but a general issue concerning the changing from one calendar system to another. The same disadvantage is present on several other pages about calendars, but should it maybe be moved to a section in the article on Calendar reform? --RoaldVitus (talk) 10:45, 2 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disadvantages 

message: The article currently suggests that a Leap Day of 29 June on the International Fixed Calendar would correspond to 18 June on the Gregorian Calendar. However, there is a glaring inconsistency here: the same chart suggests that in non-leap years the last day of International Fixed Calendar month of June (28 June) corresponds to 17 June on the Gregorian Callendar, and also that this date occurs one day earlier on the Gregorian Calendar in leap years because the Gregorian leap day is earlier, in February. This would mean that in a leap year, 28 June on the International Fixed Calendar would correspond to 16 June on the Gregorian Calendar. Therefore the following day, Leap Day, 29 June on the International Fixed Calendar, which only occurs in leap years, must be 17 June on the Gregorian Calendar, and not 18 June as noted in the chart. This is ordinal day number 169 in the year (with 1 being January 1).
I will attempt an edit to correct this but wanted to share my reasoning here for reference.
Dominique Cyprès (talk) 23:52, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inconsistent Gregorian date provided for Leap Day 

message: In latin:
September- sept mean 7
october- octo mean 8
november- novo mean 9
december- decem mean 10 
 
shouldnt it be ordered as such and the year start on the 1 march 76.71.206.196 (talk) 10:30, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: There are calendar reform proposals that do this, but not this one. — Christoph Päper 12:19, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Month order