Talk:Nine Inch Nails/Archive 1

message: Moved from halo:
*Halo 1 - Down in It (single, 1989)
*Halo 2 - Pretty Hate Machine (first full LP, 3x Platinum according to Billboard, 1989)
*Halo 3 - Head Like a Hole (maxi-single, 1990)
*Halo 4 - Sin (single, 1990)
*Halo 5 - Broken (EP, 1992)
*Halo 6 - Fixed (remixes from broken, 1992)
*Halo 7 - March of the Pigs (single, 1994)
*Halo 8 - The Downward Spiral (second LP, 4x Platinum, 1994 )
*Halo 9 - Closer to God (single, 1994)
*Halo 10 - Further Down the Spiral (US release) (remixes from TDS, 1995)
*Halo 10 v2 - Further Down the Spiral (UK release) (remixes from TDS, 1995)
*Halo 11 - The Perfect Drug (single from David Linch's "Lost Highway" soundtrack song "The Perfect Drug", composed by Trent Reznor, 1997)
*Halo 12 - Closure (double video set which contains every official Nine Inch Nails video as well as a live performance from the TDS era, 1997)
*Halo 13 - The Day the World Went Away (single, 1999)
*Halo 14 - The Fragile (Double-Disc LP which debuted at #1 on Billboard, 1999)
*Halo 15 - We're in This Together (single, divided into 3 parts and available as import only, 1999)
Note: Into the Void is an official Nine Inch Nails release, but not a Halo
*Halo 16 - Things Falling Apart (remixes from The Fragile, 2000)
*Halo 17 - And All That Could Have Been (cd 1) / Still (cd 2) (live performance from the Fragility V2.0 tour available as single and double album, as well as concert documents on VHS and DVD (Dolby Digital or DTS versions for 5.1 Surround are available, yet both contain a Stereo mix, 2002)
This format is more detailed than the article. Maybe this should replace the list in the current page? Evercat 22:09, 2 Oct 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: Initial message

message: Just a thought -- perhaps this section would better suit the Trent Reznor entry? It really doesn't have anything to do with Nine Inch Nails, and the Reznor entry could use more material. 
:I have now moved this material to the Trent Reznor entry. Twiin 08:51, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Non NIN albums by TR 

message: Should there really be seperate pages for And All That Could Have Been and still ? After all, AATCHB comprises of the live CD, the still CD, and the DVD/VHS, right?
Psxer 08:26, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  and all that could have been 

message: Is it necessary to flip the N on every instance of NIN? The reversed N is part of the logo, not part of the abbreviation. You'll note TR never flips the N when he refers to the band as 'nin' on his website. Twiin 10:20, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  logo 

message: How should the word "halo" be formatted?  Is it just a release number, or is it another name for the title?  All of the halo pages and this page should be converted to the same format.  Possibilites:
*halo - informal, synonymous with "number" - e.g., Broken is release number 5 / halo 5.
*Halo - formal, synonymous with the album title - e.g., Broken is also known as Halo 5.
*Halo - somewhere in-between - e.g., Broken is Halo 5.
Formal might work.  When someone says "Halo 14 is my favorite," that is closer to "The Fragile is my favorite" than "NIN's 14th release is my favorite"  Than again, informal might work too.  When someone says "I have all of the halos!", that means "I have every NIN release!"  Perhaps a combination of formatting, depending on context?
Edit: at least in the introductory paragraphs of each halo, I've used Halo # format because it's an aka for the title.
--Tripps 17:39, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Formatting the word "halo" 

message: I re-organized the article yesterday and added a bit more info.  Some things that I did:
*section on the naming of NIN, which will answer info-seekers's question about that.  Don't know if this should be the first section on not, but there it is for now.
*section on the genre -- because it's tedious to see NIN always referred to as an industrial band when this isn't totally true.
*began italizing the word halo when it's used as an aka for the album name.
*future releases section to collect all data on future projects. Just brief descriptions, however -- the main data belongs on the relevant halo page.
*moved Closure DVD info to Closure (Nine Inch Nails).
*reversed the order of the live band listing.  Makes more sense to go from earliest to latest.
*trivia section for all the miscellaneous info.
*re-arranged the links.  Removed the French NIN page link (belongs on the French wiki article for NIN).  Put all of the discussion forums at the bottom of the list in alphabetical order.  Added the touring link.
Things I plan to add in the future on this article or the halo articles (or would like to see others add):
*music video data
*better history of the band
*impact on culture (copycat bands, "Closer" as a favorite strip club song, etc.)
*awards won section 
Essentially, I want this articles to be in good shape for when With Teeth comes out.  There'll be all kinds of new people seeking NIN info and this is one place some of them will come.
--Tripps 18:11, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article Re-organization 

message: In case everyone doesn't know the Resources section from Nin.com (http://www.nin.com/resources/index.html) contains a link to this article. I think that's a great indication of how good this article is and everyone who has worked on it deserves a pat on the back. [i know this really doesn't belong here I just thought everyone would've liked to know about it]. Naufana 17:13, Apr 13, 2005 (UTC)
:I just noticed that myself and thought it was pretty cool.  I wonder if the nin.com webmaster is a wiki-contributor around these parts?
:--Tripps 03:13, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  An Amazing Article 

message: The Lathe of Heaven is speculated as "an indirect inspiration for some of the songs on With Teeth" because nin.com had used some text from the Lathe of Heaven as backgrounds on the website (see The NIN Hotline, July 03 and The NIN Hotline, November 03).  Themes of the book, regarding dreams and parallel realities, are arguably present in the lyrics of Every Day Is Exactly The Same, The Line Begins to Blur, Beside you in Time, and Right Where it Belongs.  -- Leviathant 20:42, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lathe of Heaven  

message: Are there any sources for:
# "Trent also plays Counter-Strike: Source competitevely in CAL."
# Related Link: Misanthropy
I'm not seeing a general dislike for the human race in my listening; a dislike for certain members of the human race, yes.  Not all - maybe I need to listen harder.  I don't really see a common thread of misanthropy through much of Nine Inch Nails' (grammar?) work, but again this might be me.  A source would be nice anyway.  GeorgeBills 12:30, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: These were never sourced, and my own search for the sources revealed no confirmation, so I've removed these claims.  Misanthropy was removed outright, and the CAL claim was moved to Trent Reznor with other Reznor-but-not-NIN trivia and was subsequently removed.  -- Rynne 06:42, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources? 

message: I've taken Jdowland's suggestion and moved the NIN discography to a seperate page.  I did some minor editing to cut out clutter, but all the relevant information which was removed from the main page has been reproduced either on the new discography page or on the individual releases page (e.g., full chart positions).   I also seperated the albums and singles chronologies in the article infoboxes as per wikipedia standards.  -- Rynne 05:22, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Discography

message: I hope I am not the only one who liked the "old" discography tabe with covers etc that once was incorporated to the main article. Would anyone object creating a separate page called "List of Halos" with the old layout?
: Prizm brought up this topic in Sorting this article out.  He worried that the images in that context may be considered purely decorative, and hence might not fall under fair-use policy.  The consensus seems to be that if the disc has a picture on its own article, a list of additional pics aren't needed.  See also:
:* Talk:Fair use, where the use of album covers in infobox chonologies was debated. 
:* Talk:The White Stripes, where a concensus was made to remove album covers from a discography.
:-- Rynne 01:26, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Additional table with Halo numbers

message: As I've said before, I think the current Nine Inch Nails#Albums section of the article should be switched to a history of NIN.  The existing set-up is just restating information that is already on, or should be on, the pages of each release.  We should come up with a more-informative, historical band overview.  So, I propose a history-by-album-era approach.  Each era should touch on:
*Approximate description of/changes to NIN's aestethic
*Public reception of releases from that era
**Tour overview
*Other musicians in NIИ — especially long-time associates like Chris Vrenna, Danny Lohner, etc.
Additionally, I suggest some more info for specific eras:
#Pretty Hate Machine era
#*Recording of PHM (Purest Feeling demos)
#*Etymology
#*NIN & industrial scene — Trent tours with Revolting Cocks, Pigface
#Broken era
#*Troubles with TVT / start of Nothing Records
#*Hard Copy story
#*Broken Movie
#*Relocate to LA, Tate house
#The Downward Spiral era
#*Beginning of Tapeworm
#*Relocate to NOLA, Nothing Studios
#*Quake
#The Fragile era
#*nin.com
#*Mention of Trents's drug use/clean up, in relation to lull between AATCHB and WT
#*Dissolution of Tapeworm
#With Teeth era
#*Split with John Malm / end of Nothing Records?
#*TVT sells NIN back-catalogue / reissues
#*Politicized NIN: MTV Movie Awards, Hurricane Katrina benefits
That's not a complete list, so what does everyone think should be added/removed/changed?  Any collaborators are welcome, so we can make this a really good, NPOV contribution.  -- Rynne 00:46, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds good to me, but I'm sure others disagree; probably a lot of work that you're going to have to put in in one edit to replace the album list...  Overall the article looks like it needs some more organization, although other than that I think its excellent.  Some sorting of points would be nice too - at the moment it looks like heaps of people have just put in a one paragraph one liner, and it doesn't "flow" very well.  :S  GeorgeBills 11:37, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: NIN History

message: Is it just me, or is it strange that Quake isn't mentioned anywhere in this article? (Especially since DOOM is mentioned) One of the few games I've played since the days of the Amiga, and bought especially for the NIN soundtrack on the CD. And who can forget the nailgun with the NIN-branded boxes of nails? -G.
:Quake is mentioned in the Nine Inch Nails discography and in Trent Reznor's article.  It's certainly something I'd like to see in the "History" section I’ve proposed above.  In fact, I'll add it into the outline right now.  -- Rynne 18:26, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: My memory might be wrong here, but I think I cut it out at some point because it's credited to Reznor, rather than NIN, even though Quake has homages to NIN in it. -- Jon Dowland 21:21, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  I checked the liner notes on my copy, and the sound effects and music are credited to "Trent Reznor and Nine Inch Nails." -- Rynne 14:15, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ah that's almost certainly right. I couldn't find any notes in my copy, I think I made my assumption based on Quake's README or something like that. -- Jon Dowland 21:15, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  NIN and Quake 

message: I've noticed a lot of fixing, unfixing, fixing, unfixing, etc. going on.  For instance, a bunch of non-official links have been re-added, despite the explanation in this discussion for having whittled them down. (It's redundant, all of those links are on nin.com/resources) Likewise, the use of a Russian character in the abbreviation, "NIN", has come and gone, but really is not the correct abbreviation, given that an overwhelming majority of NIN fans use English keyboards and don't have a grasp of high ascii nor meddle with international character sets.
I realize this is the never-ending battle of Wikipedia, but people really shouldn't go crazy with the editing without having looked at the history and discussion parts of the entry.  
--Leviathant
209.74.55.194 18:50, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The never-ending cycle of revision 

message: I've removed the references to Still being a major release from the main page.  This seems to happen every once in a while, so I'll list my reasons for considering Still to be a minor release (albeit one that's generally well-liked).
* Major releases should contain a majority of completely-new songs.  Still does not contain a majority of completely-new songs: four out of the nine tracks of the disc are "deconstructed" versions of old songs, and many of the remaining tracks are based on music from The Fragile.
* Major releases should be widely-available.  Still is not widely-available, and by this I mean:
*# It has never been sold on its own in any commerical record stores.  The only time it has ever been possible to buy Still from a retail record store was as part of the limited release of And All That Could Have Been, in which it was a bonus disc.
*# It has never had its own non-domestic release as a seperate entity.  It can be argued that the single-disc Still is available to anyone in the world who goes to nin.com and orders one, but those are essentially American discs being exported from an American store.
It's pretty obvious that all the listed major releases (PHM, Broken, TDS, TF, WT) easily meet these criteria.  It's equally obvious that other NIN discs that don't meet these criteria (Fixed, Closer to God, etc.) are not listed as major releases.  -- Rynne 18:33, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: ''Still''

message: The page must have a "References" section. All other links should be put in an "External Links" section. Bragador 02:23, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: I have removed the multiple copies of links within the videos table as they are all within reading distance of each other and link to the same articles, and there are a lot of links in the text anyway.  Wikipedia recommends that links shouldn't be done like this:
:On the other hand, do not make too many links. An article may be considered overlinked if any of the following is true: a link is repeated in the same article (although there may be case for duplicating an important link that is distant from the previous occurrence); --localzuk 09:49, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of links 

message: I removed the links that have appearred which are:
* 
* 
As I think they are commercial services - with no real reason to be linked to. They are templates though which leads me to believe that they may be used elsewhere so my removal may have been in error.
Can anyone state why they should be there? (We already have a very large external links section).-localzuk 14:50, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Commerical? All three of them offer free services. Last.fm is the only one that provides ADDITIONAL services for a little money. Although, I think that these links do add to the article; they provide information about NIN's records and songs.SoothingR 16:54, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree. They only provide information that is available in the article already or through the already linked articles. The discogs site also advertises albums for sale. The Music Brainz one seems to be the only possibly, in the loosest sense, useful link - but the info is not really of any use as it is, as I said before, already covered.-localzuk 18:26, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I also disagree.  The information at Discogs.com can be found (and probably -was- found) at The NIN Collector, where it is better documented.  Last.fm is somewhat interesting, but trivial at best.  Musicbrainz.org isn't even loading for me.  I will also reiterate that the most useful links in the links section are duplicates of those found at nin.com/resources, which is already linked, and are something of a waste of space, IMNSHO. --Leviathant 209.74.55.194 20:11, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  3 extra external links 

message: I would do this myself, but I am not that good at editing. So, to let everyone know, the trailer for Underworld Evolution has a (possible) remix of the song The Hand That Feeds. It could be the original though, I only saw it once so I am not sure. Anyway, go ahead and add that if you want. Godlord2 06:13, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Underworld Evolution trailer usage of The Hand That Feeds 

message: When I think of Industrial Metal, I think of metal (hard, hard, hard rock) with industrial (synth, distortion guitars, broken sounds). When I think of Nine Inch Nails, on the other hand, I think of Industrial + Rock. Anyone else with me on the change from Industrial metal to Industrial rock? --Tony (Talk), Vandalism Ninja 22:31, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Genre 

message: I was just wondering if someone can fix up and correct the Closer (song)  article. Especially the reference to Limp Bizket's song "hotdog" being a "nod" to NIN.
*I've redirected it to Closer to God. - Rynne 14:47, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Closer

message: How do you make the "N" backwards on the main page. (Hypernick1980 06:32, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  question 

message: The new Sopranos trailer uses a NIN song I believe.  Don't know the name of the song off the top of my head. Maybe add it to trivia? Or start a new section called "3rd Party Usage" or "As Heard In.." or something similar? 63.235.11.64 06:04, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I just added some more of this back in without reading this first - sorry. However I would argue for the inclusion of that stuff as long as the usage is prominent. A lot of people try to figure out what song it was they just heard in a show or clip, and this is the trivia section after all. I disagree with the earlier statement that "NIN has no control over how its songs are licensed", do you have a source for that? I was under the impression that TR is very selective about how he allows his music to be used and that is why we do not hear it for example in a VW commercial. thanks Nowimnthing 16:55, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sopranos 

message: A DVD version of Closure is forthcoming, pending the resolution of some legal troubles. (Rumor speculates this has to do with the possible inclusion of the Broken Movie, although this cannot be officially verified).
The "legal troubles" refered to were always assumed to be the lawsuits with trent's ex-manager john malm.  Besides which, wikipedia is for facts, not rumours that no-one has heard of.  I'm editing out the rumour comment, if you want to re-add it, provide a source for the rumour.  There's an obscene lack of sources in this article :( --User:203.221.28.203
: The legal issues were related to John Malm & Nothing Records.  Right now, the DVD is in the hands of Universal/Interscope.  What they are doing with it is anyone's guess. They (Universal) were going to repackage it, and change the menus around, but after the guy who was doing that work blogged about it, NIN & management put a stop to that.  It's done, it's been done for years.  --Leviathant 209.74.55.194 15:08, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Closure legal problems 

message: There's waaaay too many fan sites, and I'm tempted to delete the ones that are in languages other than English - the sites can be put on their own wiki's NIN article. Any objections? --TonySt 22:32, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia should not be a promotional tool, nor a links-page.  It is for information.  Cull away!  --Leviathant209.74.55.194 19:35, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fan Sites 

message: Can anyone provide evidence of the remixed "Perfect Drug" released with Quake 2?  I have Quake 2 and all of expansions and can find no song resembling "Perfect Drug."
:No evidence available because it's not true.  Is that in the article?  If so, I'll get rid of it. - Rynne 22:16, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If I recall correctly, one of the songs in the Quake2 Soundtrack used a sample from the Perfect Drug, played backwards.  It wasn't really authorized, but it's not something anyone made a stink about either.  I do not think it bears noting in this wiki entry. -- Leviathant 72.78.235.126 04:55, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Q2 

message: I haven't been able to find anything that says With Teeth has been certified Platinum, it just says Gold on the RIAA website. I imagine the album probably has sold close to if not over a million by now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.207.0.74 (talk • contribs) 
*  :-) --TonySt 21:49, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  With Teeth Sales 

message: I believe that the opening paragraph should be just that, a single opening paragraph that succintly sums up the article. Off the top of my head I'm not aware of another article that opens with two seperate paragraphs. I naively tried to merge the two opening paragraphs into one. If you don't like it, please consider reworking it so it remains only one paragraph and not two. Naufana 03:44, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opening Paragraph 

message: Should NIN be put in the category "One Member Bands"?
: Should you perhaps sign your posts?  The last time I saw the band play, there were five people in it. -- Leviathant 216.158.33.200 21:13, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The five people you saw are listed under Nine Inch Nails: Live. — RevRagnarok Talk Contrib 02:08, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See the talk archives for my previous arguments that NIN does indeed consist of more that just Reznor. -- Rynne 18:34, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Categorization

message: On June 24th, 2006 near the end of performing at the Molson Amphitheatre [17] in Toronto, Trent Reznor confirmed there would be a new album released "shortly".
I was at a Nine Inch Nails concert in Irvine, CA on July 7th 2006, and in the middle of the performance before he brought out Peter Murphey of Bauhaus, Trent Reznor said that he will be working on a new album after the concert on July 8th. Since he simply said working, it means a new album will not be released so "shortly" since there's a lot of work for Trent and the others to do from now and the release date.
75.4.19.73 12:03, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I suspect we'll see another live DVD before the new album comes out. --Leviathant 72.78.235.126 04:56, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  New album 

message: While very, very well-written, this article is not quite there for GA. Here's why:
*Too many short, stubby sections. The first three sections should be combined somehow, and the quotes taken out of them, as those big purple quotation marks are kinda distracting. 
*In relation to the above, there are too many one sentence or very small paragraphs that should be merged together.
*In the Style section, make sure it's clear who "he" is.
*The list in Discography is pretty much saying the exact same thing the first sentence said. Scrap it. 
*Too many wikilinks, especailly in Discography.
*Convert all lists to prose, or incorporate their information into other sections, or scrap them. Include Music videos into the discography section. For the Grammy Awards list, just say "The band was nominated for 9 Grammys, winning only two for (insert name here) and (insert name here)." For the Members list, split it into a subarticle.
*Trivia has to go. Do the same things I suggested for the lists (of course they're already prose). For example, the video game entry could be placed under "Reznor's other works".
*Images:
::*All but one of the images need fair use rationales.
::*For the infobox image, could you list the band members' names, and from what year they were from?
::*Odd how the only constant member of the band doesn't even have his own image in the article.
Good luck. --Dark Kubrick 14:42, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As for the infobox image, that is from the 2006 tour; all the members there are the current members. Do you mean something on the order of a "from left to right" deal? --King Bee 21:39, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

text: Alright, I've taken care of most concerns. Someone still needs to incorporate the past members list into another article and clear the image rights. BotleySmith 04:03, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We're well on the way to FA. Somebody needs to clean up the sources into a proper reference list format and maybe combine some sections into the top of the article, and it should be on the front page of en.wikipedia.org in no time. BotleySmith 21:46, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: References are looking a lot better, but a few more are needed (particularly for the discography section, which also could use a rewrite). Perhaps a bit more introduction and we're done. BotleySmith 19:29, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Failed GA nomination 

message: I added a cat:nin to Reznor's Edge, but I'm hesitant to add it to the template. What does anyone else think? also I was wondering if a place should be made for guest musicans (such as Adrian Belew). Finally, this article is absolutely huge, with the size of it and its accompanying satellite articles it's almost ready for its own portal (not really a serious recommendation). Naufana : talk 02:25, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Reznor's Edge is a prank with nothing to do with the band. Frankly, I don't see any more reason for it to be there than the "Meathead" article, which was deleted for being non-notable and unverifiable. The main article size will become a little more managable once the "past tour lineups" section is split into its own page. I know there used to be a "Nine Inch Nails: Live" article that got deleted, but it's probably the best place to catalogue NIN's many onstage guest appearances (i.e. Marco & Adam Ant and David Bowie 1995, Marilyn Manson in 2000, Saul Williams in 2005, Peter Murphy in 2006, Eric and Dave and Gibby and Ice-T in 1991, Richard Patrick in 1996 etc.) BotleySmith 13:54, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As far as guest musicians go, all the ones on the albums (Adrian Belew, etc.) are linked off of the respective recording pages.  I think that's probably where they should stay—Reznor’s had so many guests come in for very small amounts of work (e.g., Dr. Dre mixing one song) that putting them on the template would create a huge section of links that are only tangentially related to NIN. -- Rynne 21:58, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: cat:nin & guests