Talk:Harris, Outer Hebrides

message: Text moved from main article. No conclusive evidence at the External Link about Harris flag. Google throws little up either.
(I would suggest the person who removed the Harris, North Uist and Benbecula flags restore them. These three flags are well established.)
*I check the FOTW website, the below Harris flag is not mentioned and they cited us for having the flag of Lewis. I can try to redraw the images of the flagds, if it is really needed. Zach (Sound Off) 04:55, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [Untitled]

message: What's so remarkable about Harris having single track roads? They're all over the Highlands and Islands!  I, on mainland Scotland, have to drive 40 miles on one before I can get to anything that approximates to civilisation. Lianachan 19:26, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. I considered deleting it, but decided to amend it instead. Ben MacDui 15:12, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Single track roads? 

message: The map here doesn't look quite right - it seems to show only South Harris, which is the area below Tarbert (where the island narrows), and not North Harris, which is a similar sized area to the north. See  for example. See also the map at Lewis. Interplanet Janet 12:09, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I suspect you are right (well spotted). However, I'm not sure how to fix it. It probably needs raising at Wikipedia:WikiProject UK geography. -- Solipsist 12:09, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Currently the map used on this page marks a point, rather than an area like the corresponding map on Lewis.  Where is the new map? --Una Smith (talk) 22:07, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Map 

message: I've removed this as 
*a) after nearly three weeks the discussion at Talk:Tarbert, Outer Hebrides was stuck on "No Consensus".
*b) Harris has been selected as a Wikipedia 0.7  article and this tag needs to be removed (if only temporarily). As there is a current discussion about other Tarberts at Talk:Tarbert I'll raise the issue there. Ben MacDui 15:45, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tarbert merge proposal 

message: Looks like we are not going to get a clear consensus on the new name; seems to be a split between Isle of Harris and Harris, Outer Hebrides. Should I change the request from 
:[Harris] - [Harris (Isle of)]
to
:[Harris] - ?
to alert the Administrator that the new name seems to have two favourites and leave it to them to decide?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by WickerWiki (talk • contribs) 19:43, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It is pretty clear that "Harris (Isle of)" is not a winner, so I think it is fair to go ahead and change the entry on Wikipedia:Requested moves, but otherwise let's wait a bit longer.  This discussion is still under way.  --Una Smith (talk) 21:07, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I am still opposed to the move, but your assumption that (if pushed, and it was absolutely neccessary) I would opt for Isle Of Harris is correct.  It's not an island, that's true.  The people who live there, of which I was one for years, call it Harris, as do the people of Lewis (I was one of them for even longer).  Isle Of Harris is in the postal address for the island, including all the residences and businesses there, so it seems to me to be the only reasonable alternative.  Harris, Outer Hebrides seems pointless, as that's no different (to me) from just the good old Harris that I still think it should remain. Lianachan (talk) 21:50, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Harris, Outer Hebrides would be consistent with many Wikipedia articles on place names, precisely for the reason Lianachan gives:  it says in effect the name of this place is Harris, but as there are other places named Harris we disambiguate it with an encompassing place name.  I do not mean to say this article must be consistent. --Una Smith (talk) 22:00, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

text: "Isle of Harris" is the former postal county for Harris;  see Postal counties of the United Kingdom#Scotland.  --Una Smith (talk) 22:13, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: "Isle of Harris" is the current Post town for Royal Mail postcodes starting HS3 or HS5. See HS postcode area --WickerWiki (talk) 16:06, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Hm.  Per Post town, uppercase is required, so that would be ISLE OF HARRIS.  --Una Smith (talk) 06:46, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: UK Post towns are supposed to be capitalised when written on envelopes or other postal items. If there's no consensus for any one solution, and nobody volunteering to fix over two hundred links that would need changing, then surely we should keep Harris as Harris? ϢereSpielChequers 08:28, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Because "Harris" is ambiguous, Harris will accumulate links meaning places other than this one Harris, no matter what.  So Harris always will need its links checked periodically.  That is much easier to do if it is a disambiguation page, because then virtually all incoming links will be in need of disambiguation and it won't be necessary to sift through "correct" incoming links.  Also, there is a project and software to help:  Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links.  Fixing 200 links is easy;  I and others just finished disambiguating over 1000 links to Weymouth.  --Una Smith (talk) 16:20, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

text: Well "Harris, Outer Hebrides" has most support. Despite voting for "Isle of Harris" I am not that bothered one way or the other really; the issue about which page most users will initially search for only has a technical impact on wikipedia. As long as we have a redirect from "Isle of Harris" to "Harris, Outer Hebrides" everything will work hunky dory. I will update the destination name. So what needs to be done next in the wiki process? --WickerWiki (talk) 18:16, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: We need to 1)move this page to Harris, Outer Hebrides, 2) Fix all(?) links to Harris so they point to Harris, OH. (I'll help if I'm around) 3) Move Harris (disamb) to Harris 4) fix all links til Harris (dab). We'll need sysop-help for the moves, right? Am I missing something?Finn Rindahl (talk) 18:52, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: From what I have understood the admin is supposed to do the move as you said. Not sure if there is anything else we need to do though... On a technical slant can't links be fixed with a simple SQL statement? --WickerWiki (talk) 18:59, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The technical stuff is beyond me, I looked up SQL but I'm no wiser ;) (No, please don't try explain...I'll only get a headache). But if we don't have to fix those links manually that's so much better. Finn Rindahl (talk) 19:45, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we can move Harris to Harris, Outer Hebrides without help from an admin but an admin's help may be needed to move Harris (disambiguation) over Harris.  So what I propose is:  clean up the entry on Wikipedia:Requested moves and wait a day or two.  Then, disambiguate links to Harris per Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links.  Most but not all links will need to be changed to Harris, Outer Hebrides or Harris (so display text will be "Harris") or Isle of Harris.  Isle of Harris will be a redirect to Harris, Outer Hebrides.  --Una Smith (talk) 21:16, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

text: The links have to be examined to see which "Harris" is intended.  Usually, the context in the linking article makes this clear, but sometimes the best you can do is leave a hidden comment that the link needs to be disambiguated, and let someone else figure out which "Harris" is the correct one.  --Una Smith (talk) 21:26, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok we will wait a couple more days. I thought the admin just came along and did the move after 5 days though. Is this wrong? Are you supposed to summon them from somewhere if you need their help? I didn't see anything in the wiki moving guidelines that made this clear, but I could have easily missed something. --WickerWiki (talk) 13:31, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: 5 days is the minimum wait time.  They're just waiting to see if we have said all we have to say about the move.  --Una Smith (talk) 15:53, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Conclusion - New Name of this page

message: Hello, some people have been changing this article to use the "ise" spelling rather than the "ize" one. Just to point out, the guidelines (WP:ENGVAR) say to "retain existing variety" unless there is a strong reason to change. I don't see a strong reason to change here; the Oxford spelling is a perfectly valid variety of British spelling (see also WP:SPELLING), even if it is used slightly less often. Sam5 (talk) 23:49, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Change to "ise" spelling 

message: Hmmm.  I think the new intro represents a great stride backwards.  What, for example, is the point in saying that Lewis and Harris are known as Lewis and Harris?  It all read much better before the recent batch of edits, at least to me. Lianachan (talk) 22:25, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I worked on it some more.  Better now?  --Una Smith (talk) 00:29, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: What's the point in putting the former postal county as opposed to the current postal town/county? Does it even need to be in the intro seeing as it is listed in the summary info box on th RHS? --WickerWiki (talk) 13:36, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I would move the mention of the postal county to somewhere else in the article, but I do think a mention of "Isle of Harris" belongs in the lead paragraph. --Una Smith (talk) 14:13, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: How about that? --WickerWiki (talk) 14:58, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Getting there.  I shortened the mention in the lead and added mention of the mailing address to the Etymology section.  --Una Smith (talk) 15:48, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Intro 

message: *Norse harri, meaning "heights".  
*Na h'earadh (àirdead) shares this meaning
Pass on the Norse meaning but the etymology of Harris is *not* commonly "heights" but "district, portion of land" (see Mac an Tàilleir et al). The Na h'earadh is really bad spelling and *àirdead is àirde "height" plus a derivational suffix and you'd have a really hard job deriving the one from the other. And the 1892 source looks really bad to be honest, lots of "maybe's" and little that's assured. Do we have any other source who supports this rather left-field etymology? Akerbeltz (talk) 19:31, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, I should have modernised the Gaelic rather than just copy that source.  I've put the info back in, without any mention of Gaelic and with a more accurate Norse spelling.  Oh, and a different reference too.  The original reference, by the way, is a pretty well respected book of Scottish toponymy. Lianachan (talk) 20:38, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I've balanced it out a bit now, so hopefully the toponymy section is fleshed out and improved.  Lianachan (talk) 20:54, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks much better, thanks! Akerbeltz (talk) 22:48, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Etymology

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This section needs a serious checking and revision.  My understanding is that the name derives from an Old Norse word for high ground, not from a personal name, and the island was Pictish before the Norse settlers arrived so didn't have Gaelic names replaced by Norse; rather it was the other way around - Gaelicisation of Norse names. Northern rock (talk) 10:47, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etymology