Talk:The Left (Germany)

message: I think, that kind of "trivia"-section has nothing to do with trivia but is a politically statement to critizise the party. I am from Germany, but don´t support "The Left", but the Trivia could get into a "Critizism" section or in the article about Oskar Lafontaine - also as critizism, but not so called "trivia". I will delete that kind of trivia section because of that reasons. You could also make a "trivia" section about the Democratic Party of the United States and whrite "Althoug the Democratic Party supported slavery in the 19th Century, now they have the first black presidential candidate Barack Obama." But that where in the actuell context no kind of trivia but critizism.  --80.133.190.3 (talk) 16:22, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: As you might have noticed: The democratic party has nothing in common with this party and slavery was more than 100 years ago. I think it is important to mention that the leader of the party just criticized it that heavily only few years ago. Would for example Bill Clinton have supported slavery in the 90ties, it would have certainly found a place in the article of the democratic party. Under this circumstances and because Mr Lafontaine did this very often in the 90ties, I think it should be left in the article. Please don't remove references, you may change the text but leave the references in. Reachtests (talk) 10:05, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: see Wikipedia:Trivia sections --Soman (talk) 10:10, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Trivia Section" 

message: Is it really appropriate to translate the name "Die Linke" into English? 172.174.54.138 09:47, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: We don't call the SPD "Sozialdemokratische Partei Deutschlands" we call it the Social Democratic Party of Germany. We don't call the FDP the "Freie Demokratische Partei", we call it the Free Democratic Party. More tellingly, we don't call the Greens "Bündnis '90/Die Grünen", we call it Alliance '90/The Greens, and still more tellingly, we didn't name the article for that predecessor party "Die Linke.PDS", we called it The Left Party.PDS. It's just precedent. Oh, and not to mention: it's policy on the English Wikipedia to use English in article titles. Find me an English-language news article about this party calling "Die Linke." and I might change my mind. Lockesdonkey 18:38, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

text: The official title is "Die Partei DIE LINKE" ("The Party THE LEFT"), abbreviated to "DIE LINKE." But German media are ignoring the capitals and simply using "Die Linke" or "Linkspartei" (Left Party). Standard usage for the English-language services of Deutsche Welle and dpa is "Left Party" and "The Left." "Left Party" is a reasonable translation of the party's full name, "Die Partei DIE LINKE," and "The Left" of the party's abbreviated title, "DIE LINKE."--langohio 19:40, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Would "Die Partei DIE LINKE" translate more clearly as "The party of the Left?" In addition, I have heard the party's name being spoken as just "Linke". Free Socialist 12:24, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it wouldn't. "Die Partei DIE LINKE" is equivalent to such names as "Political Party 'Ukrainian Freedom'" in the Ukraine -- we only use "Ukrainian Freedom" as the party name in such cases. —Nightstallion 19:13, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

text: I feel inclined to agree with the mysterious unnamed editor above ;). Especially since the party seems to call itself "Die Linke" in English also. Janfrie1988 (talk) 21:15, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Since when is it common to translate german proper names into english? Ok you might tranlate it because it means the same political terminology, but it is the name of the party itself, not usually the name of the political ideology. Or do you also translate "Autofahrerpartei Deutschlands" into "German Cardriverparty" ? If this is done with a lot of other proper names then i can just say: biggest fail in wiki. For example you can translate "Die Linke" into "The Left" like it were a typical left wing party in the USA(or so) but their politics differ a lot, so this could leed to missunderstandings. If you know what the expression "lost in translation" means then you kow what i mean.  Also its not common to tranlate such proper names. Or do you make an exeption because its about partys of germany? Or what the hell! Greets--Lexikon-Duff (talk) 23:45, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

text: Edit/ The party "Die Linke" is really a left wing party(differ from usa left wing partys). But other partys are also called "the left" or "the left people, left partys". Their proper name is "Die Linke" but their political possition is a "left" one. In germany they are mostly called "the left" not so much because of their name, its because of their political "ideology". I hope someone gets my point.  And maybe that should be decribed in such a way. By the way: You didnt translate "Bundestag" or "Verfassungsschutz" into english. I suspect someone didnt understand the name of the party in relation to the political ideology.  --Lexikon-Duff (talk) 23:50, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: There is a guideline to WP:Use English on English Wikipedia. The title of articles should generally reflect the WP:Common name in English-language publications. --RJFF (talk) 15:51, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Im sry but this is just stupid. What about changing this guideline? Greets--Lexikon-Duff (talk) 23:04, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

text: And some user above said that this guideline doesnt apply. "The policy is not to name articles in English, it is to name articles using the most common name used in English language sources. Hence 'Michelangelo', not 'Michael the Angel', 'Bundestag', not 'Federal Parliament (Germany)', 'Pravda' not 'Truth', etc." And come on, do you srsly translate proper names like "Uwe Ochsenknech" into "Uwe Oafservant"?? Greets--Lexikon-Duff (talk) 23:05, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: And, what is the most common name in English-language sources? --RJFF (talk) 23:11, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

text: ehm, "Die Linke"? But you dont understand what i mean, it doesnt matter if its the most common name. You dont translate proper names from a foreign language into another language, which would end up in ridiculous names like i showed above with the "Uwe Oafservant" name. Greets--Lexikon-Duff (talk) 17:36, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: BTW: And in the same articel you dont translate "Bundestag" or "Verfassungsschutz" which is right ! Greets--Lexikon-Duff (talk) 17:37, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: RJFF is absolutely right, as a rule of thumb we translate foreign countries' party names if the majority of sources translate them. That's not uncommon and not at all the same as translating a surname (the German Wikipedia does it, too, see de:Republikanische Partei, de:Demokratische Partei (Vereinigte Staaten), de:Einiges Russland, de:Bürgerplattform, ...). It's as ridiculous as having different names for the same city in different languages (Brussels, fr:Bruxelles, de:Brüssel; Aachen, fr:Aix-la-Chapelle, es:Aquisgrán), i.e. not ridiculous at all. --Six words (talk) 18:19, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

text: Proper names of political parties are translated in English all the time, compare e.g. Union for a Popular Movement (France), The People of Freedom (Italy), or the Spanish Socialist Workers' Party. WP:Common names is a Wikipedia policy. Changing policies is not impossible, but usually difficult, and I know a lot of Wikipedians (including myself) who would defend this policy. You can propose an amendment of the policy at Wikipedia talk:Article titles. If "Die Linke" is the most common name for this party in English-language publications and you can show this, you don't have to change policy, but you can simply propose a Wikipedia:Requested move. The page explains pretty well how to do this. If you need help, you can ask me. --RJFF (talk) 18:26, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation of Name? 

message: Sorry to resurrect an old topic, but I feel I must agree that the name of this article should be 'die Linke'. 
In response to those criticisms set out above;
i) Precedent, while important shouldn't be overstated. If sufficient evidence exists for a change, it should trump precedent.
ii) A news article which consistently uses 'die Linke' as the name of the party.
iii) Wikipedia: Use English doesn't quite apply as implied above. The policy is not to name articles in English, it is to name articles using the most common name used in English language sources. Hence 'Michelangelo', not 'Michael the Angel', 'Bundestag', not 'Federal Parliament (Germany)', 'Pravda' not 'Truth', etc.
In terms of positive arguments towards a name change:
i) The party calls itself 'DIE LINKE (the left)' on it's English language page here.
ii) A wikipedia article should be located where it is most likely to be found by an end user. I doubt anyone enters 'The Left (Germany)' in the search box, but someone might enter 'die Linke', even if it is just a German looking for English language info on the party. More specifically 'die Linke' is a more unique name for the party than 'The left'.
iii) There are significant number of English language webpages which use the name "die Linke", doing a search for '"die linke" +party' on English language pages on google I get about 170,000. It's very hard to do a direct comparison between number of pages, given that there a lot of pages which can use the terms 'the left', 'party' and 'germany' without being associated with the subject under discussion, but I won't pretend that there aren't also a significant number which simply call the party 'the left'.
I don't plan to do anything radical here, but I would be interested to see if people's opinions on this matter have changed since 2007.
:I feel inclined to agree with the mysterious unnamed editor above ;). Especially since the party seems to call itself "Die Linke" in English also. Janfrie1988 (talk) 21:15, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Since when is it common to translate german proper names into english? Ok you might tranlate it because it means the same political terminology, but it is the name of the party itself, not usually the name of the political ideology. Or do you also translate "Autofahrerpartei Deutschlands" into "German Cardriverparty" ? If this is done with a lot of other proper names then i can just say: biggest fail in wiki. For example you can translate "Die Linke" into "The Left" like it were a typical left wing party in the USA(or so) but their politics differ a lot, so this could leed to missunderstandings. If you know what the expression "lost in translation" means then you kow what i mean.  Also its not common to tranlate such proper names. Or do you make an exeption because its about partys of germany? Or what the hell! Greets--Lexikon-Duff (talk) 23:45, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Edit/ The party "Die Linke" is really a left wing party(differ from usa left wing partys). But other partys are also called "the left" or "the left people, left partys". Their proper name is "Die Linke" but their political possition is a "left" one. In germany they are mostly called "the left" not so much because of their name, its because of their political "ideology". I hope someone gets my point.  And maybe that should be decribed in such a way. By the way: You didnt translate "Bundestag" or "Verfassungsschutz" into english. I suspect someone didnt understand the name of the party in relation to the political ideology.  --Lexikon-Duff (talk) 23:50, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: There is a guideline to WP:Use English on English Wikipedia. The title of articles should generally reflect the WP:Common name in English-language publications. --RJFF (talk) 15:51, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Im sry but this is just stupid. What about changing this guideline? Greets--Lexikon-Duff (talk) 23:04, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

text: And some user above said that this guideline doesnt apply. "The policy is not to name articles in English, it is to name articles using the most common name used in English language sources. Hence 'Michelangelo', not 'Michael the Angel', 'Bundestag', not 'Federal Parliament (Germany)', 'Pravda' not 'Truth', etc." And come on, do you srsly translate proper names like "Uwe Ochsenknech" into "Uwe Oafservant"?? Greets--Lexikon-Duff (talk) 23:05, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: And, what is the most common name in English-language sources? --RJFF (talk) 23:11, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

text: ehm, "Die Linke"? But you dont understand what i mean, it doesnt matter if its the most common name. You dont translate proper names from a foreign language into another language, which would end up in ridiculous names like i showed above with the "Uwe Oafservant" name. Greets--Lexikon-Duff (talk) 17:36, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: BTW: And in the same articel you dont translate "Bundestag" or "Verfassungsschutz" which is right ! Greets--Lexikon-Duff (talk) 17:37, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: RJFF is absolutely right, as a rule of thumb we translate foreign countries' party names if the majority of sources translate them. That's not uncommon and not at all the same as translating a surname (the German Wikipedia does it, too, see de:Republikanische Partei, de:Demokratische Partei (Vereinigte Staaten), de:Einiges Russland, de:Bürgerplattform, ...). It's as ridiculous as having different names for the same city in different languages (Brussels, fr:Bruxelles, de:Brüssel; Aachen, fr:Aix-la-Chapelle, es:Aquisgrán), i.e. not ridiculous at all. --Six words (talk) 18:19, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

text: Proper names of political parties are translated in English all the time, compare e.g. Union for a Popular Movement (France), The People of Freedom (Italy), or the Spanish Socialist Workers' Party. WP:Common names is a Wikipedia policy. Changing policies is not impossible, but usually difficult, and I know a lot of Wikipedians (including myself) who would defend this policy. You can propose an amendment of the policy at Wikipedia talk:Article titles. If "Die Linke" is the most common name for this party in English-language publications and you can show this, you don't have to change policy, but you can simply propose a Wikipedia:Requested move. The page explains pretty well how to do this. If you need help, you can ask me. --RJFF (talk) 18:26, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revisiting the name 

message: I think it's sensible to do the same as was done in the German WP.  Basically that would be:
- This article would  be removed.
- The Left Party.PDS would be renamed to The Left.
- The Left Party.PDS would redirect to the new location.
The ideological and historical differences with the recent name change and addition of the WASG are very small and I think Die Linke is most approriately seen as an evolution of that party rather than a new entity.
88.72.212.200 (talk) 00:42, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I live in germany and i was born here and i can asure you that this is not the case. there is a huge difference between the The Lft Party.PDS and The Left.   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.137.197.120 (talk) 11:06, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Redirecting to [[The Left Party.PDS]] 

message: :Es gibt in Bayern 2008 die Kommunalwahlen und die Landtagswahlen
:Es gibt in Bayern 2009 die Bayrische Wahl des Bundespräsidenten, die Bayrische Wahl zum Europaparlament, die Bayrische Wahl der 44 Bayrischen Direktmandatebundestagsabgeordneten aus Bayern.
:2009 wählen bei den Wahlen zum Europaparlament und zum Deutschen Bundestag 48.000.000 Deutsche Wahlberechtigte.
193.208.90.130 (talk) 10:16, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: So, what's your point? MikeZ (talk) 09:13, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Parteiprogramm Die Deutsche Linke 2008 und 2009 

message: The article says: "It is currently observed by the Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz, Germany's domestic intelligence agency, responsible for the surveillance of anti-constitutional activities in Germany." But the "Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz" does only observe some working groups into this party not the whole party. Further the Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz thinks the observation of this party is no longer needed. (http://de.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idDEBUC74192320080127)87.174.38.58 (talk) 13:46, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If you want to explain in detail, which parts of the Linkspartei like the "communist platform" are in the focus of the observation, this would be fine. But simly delete the fact of the observation has not worked in the german wikipedia and will not work here.Karsten11 (talk) 17:26, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, the fact of the matter is that writing the whole party is being observed is factually wrong and therefore either based on ignorance or a blatant lie. I agree that the observation should be mentioned: But it should be put into context. First of all, not all platforms are under observation. Secondly, the 16 states handle this in very different ways (observation takes place only in states with conservative governments). Thirdly, the observation of certain Die Linke polititians has been declared unlawful by German courts. In the German article it says that in political science it is a contentious issue whether Die Linke is extremist and observation is therefore justified or if it is not extremist. I think a formulation like this is adequate. In any case, we should avoid giving readers the impression that the whole party is nothing but a remainder of totalitarian GDR-style communism. There are (a few) people like that in the party but they are a minority. In Eastern Germany Die Linke is part of several state governments and is acting quite pragmatic, whereas in western Germany part of its success can be explained by the rightward drift of the SPD under Schröder and the subsequent creation of the social democrat WASG, which later merged into Die Linke. Janfrie1988 (talk) 21:29, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Observation 

message: Hi,
there is one anonymous IP constantly removing facts about the party. It is about its extreme tendencies, for example openly demand a change from the democratic system to a non-democratic system in Germany and its connection to terrorist groups all over the world. I don't know why the IP deletes these facts, because major parts of die Linke are openly not democratic.
Here are the proven facts:
* More than 75% of the members have been member of the dictator party SED.
* At least seven members of the Bundestag of "Die Linke" are former employees of the Stasi which consistently violated human rights in East Germany by doing murders, tortures and other cruel crimeshttp://www.focus.de/politik/deutschland/neuwahl2005/linkspartei_aid_99530.html.
* Many members of Die Linke are sympathetic to terrorist groups (for example PKK, ETA, Farc and many more) and dictators . These groups are also forbidden in Germany and considered to be terrorist groups by the European Union.
 Reachtests (talk) 10:16, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Hello, if you have proven facts that these parties are officially sympathetic to terrorist groups which are officially recognized as terrorist group than add this to their articles. However I only find official statements of The Left spoken by their leaders or documented in their party program that they are sympathetic to Terrorist groups which are officially recognized as terrorst groups. As for the stasi: The Stasi was part of the degrading regime of the DDR. They violated the right of free speech and thinking and it is a very well known fact that they were involved in crimes against humans. They also are linked to this party. I can't see that any other secret service (the verfassungsschutz or the BND is not a secret police) is linked to a party. As for the party SED: dictator party is the correct term. The DDR was a dictatorship which is also a proven fact and it is comparable to other dictator regime - people who thought different were killed and in this context it does not matter that hitler killed million and the SED just thousands. They did not ruled autoriterian, but constantly human-rights-violating. Keep in mind that the DDR just was a few years ago and I agree that former NSDAP members may have been found in Zentrum, CDU,SPD,FDP, KPD and of course the SED (so to say in all parties after World War 2), but this was longer time ago and most of them were checked by the Allies and there where many courts, which does not hold for the former DDR, unfortunately. But this is a different topic. 
I think it is up to the reader making up his own mind given him a few proven facts. 
Reachtests (talk) 10:19, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, Reachtests, here is one such reader. Let me make up my mind. Your claim that these seven members were 'former employees of the Stasi' is NOT borne out by your source, which says that they were 'informelle Mitarbeiter.' Spin as much as you like, it's not the same thing. (And you should know how many people worked for the Stasi 'informally' for all kinds of reasons, many involuntarily.) That article from Der Spiegel by Bernd Musa, its anti-left (I won't say 'reactionary') POV is abundantly clear--and for the record, its most often-used argumentative strategy is declaring guilt by association. Lafontaine = Batasuna = ETA, that sort of thing. Well, no. In both cases, then, 'a few proven facts' is more than a misnomer: it's a falsheood. Drmies (talk) 02:42, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: In single-party states, those who are into politics usually join the governing party. Remember that Putin is a conservative, and is famous for the quote "Those who do not miss the Soviet Union have no heart, those who want it back have no brain." However, he was also a member of the Communist Party because he wanted to have the power to change. So do not assume that party membership in the SED defines that one was/is a pro-totaliatarian person. 85.167.187.129 (talk) 06:58, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deletion of proven facts 

message: Deleted 
: At least seven members of the Bundestag of "Die Linke" are former employees of the Stasi which consistently violated human rights in East Germany by doing murders, tortures and other cruel crimes.
as the claim was later corrected by the original source (Marianne Birthler, the official for the Stasi-document archive) - not seven, but an unknown, lesser number; and not Bundestag members, but Left Party candidates.
Rd232 talk 14:02, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: and of course not "employees", but "unofficial collaborators". Rd232 talk 09:03, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Erroneous Stasi claim deleted 

message: I have removed (twice now) additions to the introduction made by an editor. These included statements that used words such as "extremist" and "totalitarian", which violate WP:NPOV. --Linkswechsel (talk) 01:40, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Please refrain from personal attacks, such as claiming that I am a supporter of the DDR. This is an encyclopedia, which is not supposed to present a point of view. "Totalitarian" and "extremist" hold a particular connotation, and therefore should be avoided. The Left Party is now one of the established parliamentary parties, and therefore labeling it as "extremist" is suspect. The list you cite as you list as your source is simply a watch list, and it includes almost every group to the left of the Social Democrats. If you continue to insert POV statements in Left Party-related articles, I will seek Arbitration. --Linkswechsel (talk) 01:25, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You are a blatant POV pusher, as seen already from your political user name, and the repeated removal of referenced and highly relevant information constitutes a blatant breach of Wikipedia policy. I'm not labelling the Left Party extremist (Straw man), German authorities are, whether you like it or not. This is relevant information that ought to be included. If you continue vandalizing, you may be banned from Wikipedia. Jörg ÖA (talk) 23:00, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well you added a quote ("a clear extremist threat") from a politician at a press conference and made it sound like the official judgement of the BfV. If that was intentional it was clearly POV-pushing; but there's no reason to assume anything other than an honest mistake. Let's be civil and non-judgemental and I'm sure we can reach a compromise. Rd232 talk 14:28, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I did not add a quote from "a politician", but from the Federal Minister of the Interior at the official presentation of the yearly federal Verfassungsschutzbericht - when he told why the Federal Ministry of the Interior will continue to observe the Left Party - which is something very different than a random quote from a politician. As the Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz is subordinated the Federal Minister of the Interior, the judgement of the Minister is ultimately even more important. He can decide whether a party will be observed or not. But I have no problem with sticking to the wordings used in the report. Jörg ÖA (talk) 05:12, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: OK. But I didn't use the word "random", and as I'm sure you know, spoken statements by a Minister (a politician) are rather different from written statements in official documents. Never mind. Rd232 talk 23:47, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

text: Thank you. I think this approach is well balanced. I see no problem keeping your version. --Linkswechsel (talk) 16:43, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm also happy with the wording introduced by Rd232. However, perhaps the passage 'Despite the changes within the party since 1989' needs to be reworked as it talks not only about Die Linke but PDS as well. --Soman (talk) 04:03, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

text: It looks like the other editors currently here disagree with you. German Wikipedia disagrees with you also (), and I give substantial weight to that. And I gave a reason above why having a mention in the intro would be more problematic than in the German Wikipedia (readers will be less familiar with the issues and a passing mention out of context is likely to be misleading). Finally, I notice that you today created the category :Category:Political parties observed by the Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz . Of course The Left was the first party you added to the category, since it's pretty obvious you only created the category in order to be able to add The Left to it. I'm minded to suggest the category for deletion, but I'm busy now and I'm hoping you might see on reflection that this was not perhaps the way to go, certainly in the context of the current discussion, and without discussing it first - and do so yourself. Rd232 talk 22:40, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

text: NPD is hardly a comparable case just because it's under observation as well. Or did I miss the NPD's conversion to inclusive, democratic politics, thereby making a comparison with The Left something other than offensive? Rd232 talk 22:46, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. German governments have attempted to ban the NPD, while no such actions have been taken against the Left Party. Further, the report emphasizes that segments of the Left such as the WASG are "non-extremist" (nichtextremistischen). Comparing a minor, semi-legal group with Germany's fourth largest party demonstrates an unwillingness to be neutral. --Linkswechsel (talk) 23:33, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Totalitarian" and "extremist" 

message: Adding Eurocommunism to the article is quite twisted. SED was never Eurocommunist, on the contrary they were one of the main opponents of Eurocommunism in Europe. --Soman (talk) 21:38, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know about that, I can just about see where the user's coming from. But your statement about the SED is correct and applying it to the PDS or Left Party probably doesn't make sense since Eurocomm was about relations with the Soviet Union which doesn't exist any more. But possibly there are elements of inspiration or overlap - I wouldn't want to rule that out but it would need evidence to put it in. 88.251.77.247 (talk) 21:00, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

text: Not socialdemocrats, but "democratic socialists". That's what the DS in PDS stood for. -- megA (talk) 18:19, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eurocommunism 

message: Alright, I am not going to make this an edit war but I would ask Soman to respect the conventions regarding the infobox and refrain from deleting the (sourced!) political position(s). If it is your opinion that the position within the political spectrum should not be included in articles on political parties, please bring the matter up at WikiProject Political parties and try to find support for changing the conventions there. For the time being, the position is mentioned in all articles on German parties in the Bundestag and in all articles on parties that I have come across. Personally, I think including it gives laypersons a good first overview before they delve deeper into the topic. However, it is not our place to just disregard community decisions here and act in violation of conventions without ever bringing the matter up in a discussion.
As for having two political positions: The sources simply differ on the matter. As much as I might oppose the demonisation of the left by some German politicians and parts of the media, I must acknowledge that there are substantial sources (Verfassungsschutz!) that deem parts of Die Linke to be far-left or extremist. To not include this would be a distortion and manipulation on our part. Of course it would also be a distortion (as I mentioned further above) to give this position undue weight or to represent Die Linke solely as a party of authoritarian GDR-Style communists. We must find a balance here, because both German media and politics are devided on the issue. Our own opinion on this is rather irrelevant. I think having two positions is not confusing to the reader but neatly represents the split in politics and media and is adequately differentiated with regard to the complicated situation. Opinions? Janfrie1988 (talk) 22:08, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Alright, since there are no objections, I will add back both political positions. Please discuss if you are of a different opinion. Janfrie1988 (talk) 16:31, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Political Position 

message: Yet again, and for the record: whether the Left is "far-left", "left-wing", or whatever is a contentious issue both among German and international media and German authorities. We have sources for both claims (see infobox). It would violate WP:NPOV to give one of these positions undue weight, especially in the lead, just because it reflects your personal political bias better. So, either we explain this complicated situation in the lead and say something horribly complicated like "...is a far-left or left-wing socialist political party..." or we keep it to "socialist" and mention the political position(s) in the infobox, as it now is. Janfrie1988 (talk) 09:37, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. Just keep the description as a socialist party and not a "far left" party.
Exiledone (talk) 18:17, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe that this party should be called far left. It is essentially a democratic version of the community party. If communism is not far left, I don't know what is!101.98.140.129 (talk) 00:07, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

text:  No, don't think so. I am German, not member of that party. Extremely few people in Germany would share the "far-left" assessment, where as "left" or "democratic socialism" would be ok. Look eg at Ramelow, a quite pragmatic head of Land Thüringen. And please login for a more personal discussion. BR Nillurcheier (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 08:32, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Why is there even a debate about whether a Communist Party should be considered far left?203.80.61.102 (talk) 23:57, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Because they aren't communist; they are democratic socialist. 136.152.142.112 (talk) 09:09, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Far-left" in the lead 

message: This doesn't make sense: "Some feel the Left Party has is responsible for the actions of a predecessor party..."  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.1.99.253 (talk) 15:00, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grammar 

message: The reason why I removed the "swastika section" was the following. It is bad style always to look for some spots to nag about. It is forbidden to use the swastika, but there is always room for discussion whether it is legal to use it critizing the Nazis themselves; which was the case in the reported instance even though it was anti-Israel. And besides, let the public prosecutors take care of offenses; they need not be nagged about.
Thus, "usage of swastika" is nothing for us here to critizise. If there is a thing to critizise, it is what the swastika was used for. And used was it for the Nazi -- State-of-Israel equalization which, regrettably, is by no means a thing that happened somewhen (in that case, we'd better forget it with the remark that even Nazi history can't help people being stupid), but rather a commonplace among leftists. In German, public opinion (though not law) outlaws this, and it is whispered only (among leftists); France logically is not so eager to cry out, and the most regrettable compound "Israheil" is far from being unknown there. It is still a heavier affair as accompanied by a anti-Israel boycott, which arises memories of the antisemitic boycotts of the Nazi regime.
But I said let somebody describe this who is able to; and this'd include an appropriate description about the party's (as a whole, not only a bundesland office) relations to Israel, the Jews, etc. There is no plain use to complain about a usage of a swastika in a byproduct of the party, which, though it apparently happened to be used in patterns of - what can be described as - leftist antisemitism (or, as leftists prefer and openly profess, antizionism), was apparently not used as pro-Nazi, but as anti-Nazi-critizing-others-to-be-nazilike. The latter is not forbidden in Germany.
And all that not for any reason of political sympathy with the Left Party. I'm most of the time a CSU voter (the party they dislike most); PDS never as yet, and never plan to do. I just dislike tossing aroung dirt, instead of giving real criticism in a friendly (or popularly polemical) way.--91.34.249.95 (talk) 17:46, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The better reason to delete this is that the only (and original) source is a right-wing blog, hardly a reliable source no matter what the truth. Additionally, if true, it was found on the sub-page of the youth organization of a party chapter at town level - hardly something representative for the party as a whole. --Echosmoke (talk) 23:18, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Isn't it self-evident that a party that is ideologically (and in terms of personnel) the successor of the Communist Part, far left? The East German communist party was one of the most hardline and left wing of the communist parties.Royalcourtier (talk) 01:50, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reason for my change, 11 Aug 2011 

message: German sientists says the party have strong anti-Israel and Antizionist tendencies.--95.114.223.5 (talk) 18:30, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Anti-Israelism is not the same as antisemitism, the same way that anti-Palestinianism is not anti-islamism. 85.167.187.129 (talk) 06:54, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Not at all. Anti-Israeli is not the same as anti-Semitism, as not all Israeli are semite, and not all semites are Jews (the majority are not). Antizionism is opposition to a political doctrine. Palestinians are not all Islamic, traditionally the majority were Christian, so that analogy does not work their either. A better analogy is with the Communist Party in the USSR. Despite being heavily influenced by Jews, the Party remained inherently anti-Jewish.101.98.140.129 (talk) 00:09, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Antisemitism in the Party 

message: Should the first section be called "Formation" rather than "Foundation"? It seems when I am describing a political party I would say it is formed, rather than founded, but I could be mistaken. Magicwalltree (talk) 21:58, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Formation/Foundation 

message: What is the general consensus on the political position of this party (on the German political spectrum)? I know a lot of individuals who are left-leaning may disagree with a 'far-left' description but the party is certainly controversial given the allegations of political extremism and antisemitism, which, if they were common against a right-wing party, would normally lead to a party getting the far-right label in it's Wikipedia info-box. I am pretty sure no one is suggesting calling this party centre-left, so really the debate is whether people want Left-wing, Far-left or Left-wing to Far-left. I would support any of those, but my personal preference is Left-wing to Far-left.--Jay942942 (talk) 18:46, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox political position 

message: The article claims that the districts in Berlin were gerrymandered in 2000. Now, as far as I know, this isn't possible in the same way as in the US (where the term comes from). The language is also suggestive of a conspiracy against the party, which would require ample evidence, in the way of the majority of news articles claiming this. However there is no reference whatsoever. What I could find (on wikipedia) on the 2000 re-districting in Berlin is this (German). The only thing happening were district mergers. I'm removing this point for now unless anybody can come up with a reason for its existence.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arjuna92 (talk • contribs) 09:40, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, taking a look at the link helped. wahlrecht.de even mentions it as "allegations of manipulations appear again and again, be it in France, Northern Ireland or Berlin, where mergers of West and East districts reduce the PDS's chances of obtaining direct mandates". Still, there were only allegations by the then-PDS, it would have to be phrased accordingly. In my judgement, for what it's worth, it needn't be mentioned.Arjuna92 (talk) 09:56, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gerrymandering 

message: I'm sorry to bring this up again (this has been probably discussed multiple times before) but after reading the article I'm seriously wondering what would it take for a party to get branded far-left on Wikipedia. This party is called extremist by the German authorities, it has many extremist factions such as the Communist Platform, even on the federal level a third of its MPs were under surveillance for extremism (Protection of the Constitution) until 2014 (when the Federal Interior minister decided that they would stop surveillance of even extremist factions of the party), it is the successor to the SED of the communist GDR, a large percentage of the party's politicians are known or suspected agents of the former East German secret police Stasi, four western German states consider the party to be entirely extremist and the party's vice president is a member of the Communist Platform. Also many international news sources consider the party as far-left, including the BBC, the Guardian, France 24, AFP, Euronews and Der Spiegel. At the same time Wikipedia describes the political positions of multiple right-wing populist parties as far-right or "right-wing to far right", despite them being about as equally far from the centre ground as Die Linke. These populist parties include Sweden Democrats, Danish People's Party or the National Front. The same situation is found also among other fringe parties on the left of the political spectrum such as Left Party (Sweden),  French Communist Party, which are not branded as far-left despite them being probably even further from the centre ground than the forementioned right wing populists. I'm not sure whether all of this is intentional, but the trend certainly isn't a good thing for Wikipedia, since Wikipedia has been accused of having left wing bias multiple times before. Regards --Ransewiki (talk) 17:58, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I refer to []. This German page name it an issue of discussion to whether Die Linke is far left (linksradikal). you are right, some some valid sources name them "far left". however there is no direct conclusion that this is generally agreed and refer to in academic literature. Nillurcheier (talk) 12:14, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  I cant see what makes the party Far-left today. It has had a social democratic (SPD) leadership and are not Communist any more, as they where in the past. They accept the liberal democracy and works within Parlamentsval with reforms. The academic sources i have read, non state that the party as far-left, but left-wing. I want to underline that i am not against to include "far left", but to say only far left like the IP-number clearly wants is POV. Dnm (talk) 02:13, 25 December 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: This, again, underscores why it is a bad idea to have 'political position' in the infoboxes in the first place. There are no absolutes on the left-right scale, a party which might be considered left in one context might be considered right in another. The 'far left' label is quite unhelpful here, it adds no encyclopediatic value and is quite ahistorical as well. In contemporary German politics the far left is occupied by groups like MLPD etc.. --Soman (talk) 08:56, 25 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Political position 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Helper201 do I really have to explain political theory 101 to you like you are a child and I am your tutor? PLease educate yourself on the most simplest of facts before you edit a topic. Demcratic socialism opposes capitalism. The Democratic socialism page makes that clear in the opening lines. "Democratic socialism is a political ideology that advocates political democracy alongside social ownership of the means of production, often with an emphasis on democratic management of enterprises within a socialist economic system as a replacement for capitalism" Take note of the last four words in the quoted section. Also do not accuse me of edit warring or say you are tired of my edit warring when I am not the one who broke the 3RR on Fianna Fail page.Apollo The Logician (talk) 20:53, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Do I really have to constantly repeat myself? Yes democratic socialism does usually seek to overturn capitalism. However just because a political party advocates democratic socialism does not, A. mean it follows it exactly to its law or B. seeks to implement it in the purest form (or the exact form to which it is explained on Wikipedia). As I have already mentioned, some political parties, such as the Labour Party (UK), have the ideology of democratic socialism, but do not actually want to repeal capitalism. I could understand more if the material was contradictory but your persistent attempts of removal are even more unreasonable when you agree the party holds both ideologies, yet you seek to remove content. Even if someone where to agree with your perspective, all you are doing is unnecessarily removing content that only seeks to clarify and expand on the party's outlook. Also, your attempts at insults are doing you no favors and only emphasise an apparent lack of of professionalism. And yes, you have been edit warring. I've seen it with other users too. You revert until you get your own way, even when you have little to no good reason. Its always the other person that is at fault, its never you edit warring. Helper201 (talk) 21:15, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry but Proof by assertion isnt a good argument. Factions of the Labour Party are democratic socialist, others are social democrcy. The party contains both democratic socialists and social democrats. Either way your uneducated opinion doesnt matter, the democratic socialism page is sourced. Again, that is rich, considering your activities on the AAA-PBP page and the Fianna Fail page where you broke the 3 revert rule.Apollo The Logician (talk) 21:22, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually the Labour Party still officially classifies itself as a democratic socialist party, despite revision of Clause IV. As quotes on the Clause IV page, 'The Labour Party is a democratic socialist party' (that's even post 1995 revision). There is no need for your condescension. At the time I was not aware of this rule, I gave good reasons for my edits. Yet you still constantly have this self-righteous attitude, despite the fact you knowingly broke this rule on the AAA-PBP page, I can see at least four times you have reverted, yet somehow you believe you are always innocent and correct. Helper201 (talk) 17:50, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Excuse me, but the British Labour Party is a social-democratic party, not a democratic socialist party. It doesn't matter how parties self-describe themselves in terms of how they are objectively categorised (and for historical reasons many major social-democratic parties describe themselves as democratic-socialist or make a reference to democratic socialism in their declarations – even the SPD refers to "Demokratischer Sozialismus" in their Hamburg Programme).--Autospark (talk) 18:10, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for your contribution, Autospark. However it seems that there has been a consensus to display democratic socialism as an ideology of the party on its Wikipedia page none the less. I think to maintain the ideology of anti-capitalism on the list (on this page) only adds to improving the overall clarity of the party's position and helps negate some of this confusion, I don't see how it subtracts. Helper201 (talk) 18:39, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

text: Anti-capitalism and far left/socialist are two different things.  Many people from both the left and right are anti-capitalist. Those on the left tend to be anti-free market as well. But anti-capitalism is not inherently left wing, or anti-free market. This party is socialist (in the Communist sense) and anti-free market as well as anti-capitalist203.80.61.102 (talk) 00:00, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anti-capitalism 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: "Through the PDS, the party is the direct descendant of the ruling party of the former East Germany (GDR)" and "Founded 16 June 2007"... Actually technically it's still the same party. They only renamed and rebranded a couple of times. Reason for this is also access to funds from the former GDR. --105.12.6.99 (talk) 22:52, 9 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Founding Date 

message: I am little confused on the party colour. Die Linke uses the colour red as official party colour, for example the party's logo uses red. However in the media, people uses magenta for the party not purple. Can some clarify on this. 159753 (talk) 20:13, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: It's probably because using red for several parties would be a nightmare for graphic designers, particularly those tasked by the German government with creating diagrams of election results and seat counts. CentreLeftRight ✉ 22:37, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Party colour 

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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: "Extremism" should be cashed out. 
But much worse is the section which just says it's popular. The idea that leftism being popular is bad does not make any sense.  
I came here because I heard someone say that the part has fascists in its ranks - something actually bad - but instead this page just tells me that the party believes their policies and their policies are popular. CrickedBack (talk) 23:39, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Die Linke really doesn't deserve a controversies page in the first place; there simply haven't been many big crazy scandals coming out of this party. 172.58.167.76 (talk) 00:20, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Controversies section needs to actually say controversial things.  

message: I really like the tree chart in section "History". I'd like to suggest to add a line which leads from "KPD" to "KPD-Ost". Ceeesa (talk) 15:00, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tree Chart 

message: The redirect The Left (German Political Party has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached.  Utopes (talk / cont) 07:25, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  "[[:The Left (German Political Party]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20210925-could-far-left-die-linke-become-part-of-next-german-government
https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/german-far-left-disbands-after-senior-member-quits-to-form-rival-group/
https://www.voanews.com/a/populist-left-leader-moves-to-launch-new-german-party-/7322313.html
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/16/carola-rackete-activist-aiming-to-revive-germany-far-left-die-linke-party
There's four reliable, neutral sources that call Die Linke Far-left.  This very wikipedia article calls it the "furthest left party in German parliament," and it is the literal descendent of the East German communist party. Change this, please. 172.58.166.10 (talk) 01:15, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Delusional not to call this party far-left.