Talk:The Christmas Invasion

message: Shouldn't it mention the Children in Need scene?
Daibhid C 16:55, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: We'll get around to it in 6 days or so once the situation becomes clear... --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 17:01, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

text: I think it deserves its own page, but in the absence of an official title I'm not sure where that should be.  2005 Doctor Who Children in Need Special seems a bit long-winded.  At any rate, if Dimensions in Time gets its own page, this definitely should. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 00:11, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not so sure. I haven't watched the CiN thing yet, but DiT is fairly notorouis in fan circles, which could give it an extra ounce of notability: Perhaps the question we're not asking ourselves is "Does DiT need an article?", which I don't have an easy answer for.--Sean|Black 00:28, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: DiT is a bit problematic, I admit (although as you say, its reputation for awfulness might give it a little oomph, making it comparable to The Star Wars Holiday Special.  But since this turned out to be about 7 minutes long, and it was the first substantial appearance of the Tenth Doctor, I think it might merit its own page. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 01:07, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

text: Where DiT has unclear canonicity (where does it fit in the chronology, etc), this one is blatantly clear - it starts just after PotW, and is a direct lead-in to TCI. It had the usual opening credits (though no episode title), and shot on the usual console-room set. It is NOT part of TCI itself (separate production, direction, etc), so really should have its own article. Radagast 02:06, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I've been bold and created Doctor Who Children in Need special (2005). --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 02:15, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it's a prelude to The Christmas Invasion - it explains why we are arriving on Earth on Christmas Eve and not the Planet Barcelona.  PaulHammond 20:07, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Preceded by... 

message: The note about Arthur Dent mentiuons that the Doctor quotes the Guide in Ghost Light, but there's no note about such a quote in that serial's entry. Is this true? And can we source the quote and add it to the Ghost Light entry if it is? People will want to know what was said... -- Guybrush 00:29, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it's the bit about never inviting your ancestors around for dinner, although I don't have my copy of Ghost Light around to check at the moment. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 00:36, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, that's the one: the Doctor says, "Who was it who said Earthlings never invite their ancestors round for dinner?"  (The word might not have been Earthlings, though — that's from memory.) I'll head over to Ghost Light and see what I can do. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 00:39, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

text:  (Edit Conflict) Yep. "Who was it who said that Earthmen never invite their ancestors to dinner?" during the dinner scene, in reference to Nimrod, the Neanderthal waiter (har, har). And it's at Ghost Light (Doctor Who) now BTW.--Sean|Black 00:42, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Done (although someone should probably check the Doctor's exact wording). —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 01:07, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hitchhiker's quote in ''Ghost Light''? 

message: There's a somewhat-lengthy introductory synopsis here:  (scroll to the bottom)
Would it be OK to replace the short one in the article now with this one, or is it too spoiler-heavy for a month before broadcast? Radagast 14:20, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd say that what we have here is adequate, but that's just me. I'd rather wait for the broadcast to do the full sypnosis. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 14:52, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Alright, status quo it is. Radagast 15:08, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Reading that report, it seems to mention <SPOILER> Beagle 2 or a similar craft, and more specifically, its fate </SPOILER>. Reading through the synopsis, it does only seem pretty brief, and certainly doesn't conclude the story. smurrayinchester(User), (Ho Ho Ho!) 22:30, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Longer synopsis 

message: How cool does that crash landing Tardis sequence in the trailer look??? can't wait to see the episode! quercus robur 19:30, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: not to mention the exploding erotic gherkin! :P Tim! (talk) 22:01, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: unfortunately my mother talked all the way through the gerkin bit... despite being instructed to keep quiet or else go and do the Xmas washing up. Then predictably enough later said "Whens the exploding gerkin bit coming???" quercus robur 00:46, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

text: It's all looking pretty good. Waiting for Christmas! smurrayinchester(User), (Ho Ho Ho!) 22:27, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Article says "In the BBC trailer to this episode, the TARDIS is seen crashing against multiple buildings while landing. This is the first time we see the TARDIS causing damage to other objects while in flight."  What about the Skonnon ship in Horns of Nimon?  Or the missles in Timelash and Parting of the Ways? Jm307 04:40, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You're quite right. I'd forgotten about the Skonnon spaceship (The Horns of Nimon is something that I try very hard to forget...). I did think about the missiles in Timelash and TPOTW, but treated them as exceptions because the former was never really explained how the TARDIS survived, and the latter was down to a force field. But, point taken. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 05:00, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Crash landing

message: Feel free to clean it up, I rather rushed it tonight. Sceptre (Talk) 20:32, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, someone please do. I'll fill in the gaps with a more detailed summary and a screen capture after I've managed to watch the special. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 20:41, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plot section 

message: :Llewellyn's comment that Martians don't look like the Sycorax presumably refers to the aliens seen in The Ambassadors of Death. While the Ice Warriors also come from Mars, they weren't encountered by humans until the late 21st century (in The Seeds of Death), so Llewellyn probably isn't referring to them.
The comment isn't made by Llewellyn (until five minutes ago, he didn't have a clue aliens existed), it was by the officer who was killed. Unfortunately, I've forgotten his name, but could someone who does know it please update it. smurrayinchester Merry Christmas!(User), (Go Carolling) 21:00, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks to EALacey for cleaning that up. smurrayinchester Merry Christmas!(User), (Go Carolling) 21:25, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: <cough> I changed two of three incorrect attributions :-) --Whouk (talk) 21:31, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Terribly sorry; thanks to you too! smurrayinchester Merry Christmas!(User), (Go Carolling) 12:14, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: No problem :-D --Whouk (talk) 15:16, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wrong character 

message: I'd just like to point out that in the end credits that David Tennant gets credited as "The Doctor".  *Not* "Doctor Who".
:Really? I don't get to see it until tommorrow, but that's interesting.--Sean|Black 23:21, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I didn't catch this. I know last season they called him Doctor Who -- I guess someone finally caught the error. 23skidoo 17:05, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think it was an error, any more than 18 years of "Doctor Who" or "Dr. Who" was an error. :) --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 17:10, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Doctor *not* Doctor Who 

message: Do we see the route number in the episode? If not, it could be one of the two legacy routes that are still running, and should still be running this time next year. --Whouk (talk) 00:52, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: No it was just a fleeting glimpse of of the back open platform as a bus pulled away IIRC, so whilst it could be a 'legacy' route bus, I still think this little continuity error is worth a note... I think its very unlikely that the script editor thought "lets put a legacy route routemaster bus shot in", much more likely that back in July or whenever the episode was filmed nobody on the Dr Who production team actually knew that this particular London icon was due to be phased out in December... personally i thought it quite an ironic touch, but doubt it was intentional quercus robur 01:30, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it's certainly worth noting the coincidence that they've been phased out on proper routes so soon before TCI aired. --Whouk (talk) 02:00, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Just re-watched the sequence on video- its on screen for literally half a second or so- almost subliminal- I'm amazed I picked up on it! quercus robur 02:49, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

text: I think it's a bit much to call things like this "continuity errors". The series is now clearly into the realm of "alternate reality", more so than ever before. Different PM, aliens in the open etc. What's one more little difference? (And this applies to many other so-called "errors".) -DudeGalea 15:19, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yup. I think the Routemaster is worth noting because they've only just gone out of service (and therefore it wasn't a deliberate diversion from reality in the way that, say, the female PM in Zygons was), but it's no more an error than the street it was on actually being in Cardiff :-) --Whouk (talk) 15:27, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, 'continuity error' isn't really the right word, but maybe I should be forgiven bearing in mind the amounts of alcohol I'd imbibed yesterday- I'm quite amazed I managed to type at all, but using the bus is definately notable for the irony quercus robur 20:04, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Routemaster 

message: :The plot section is short compared to other episodes, such as Aliens of London, and the CIN special is an 8th of the length, but has a plot section as long. Yes, I messed it up adding it in progess, and I welcomed people to clean it up. I propose that  an edit like this should be used for the plot, instead of the bite-size chunk on the Article page. It's possible that the Canadian fans might add some details Sceptre (Talk) 21:54, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Frankly, the plot section SHOULD be short; that's what a plot is - the story's outline. As someone has seen fit to replace a plot with a screen-by-screen analysis, I've renamed the section. doktorb | words 10:06, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: This has been discussed before and the consensus has been to retain this kind of summary. Please discuss further on the Wikiproject talk page if you wish. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 10:16, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plot seems a bit short. 

message: The article says that"…the Doctor uses a satsuma he finds in Howard's dressing gown to knock the leader over the edge, sending the alien plunging to his death."My impression was that he threw it at a control which opened some sort of trap-door under the alien: can someone make it more explicit whether I'm right or wrong? HTH HAND —Phil | Talk 08:39, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Just checked it again, and you're right! At first watch it looked like the satsuma ricocheted off the control and hit the Sycorax leader, but on closer examination, it opens a section of the wing which he then falls through. I'll fix that, thanks. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 08:43, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Satsuma incident 

message: Was any explanation given for why the UNIT translation software took a while to translate the Sycorax message the first time, but instantly every time after? smurrayinchester(User), (Talk) 14:09, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Not that I could tell, but one could assume that it took a while to get the basic syntax down, and once it managed it, the rest was easier. In Star Trek terms (ugh), it needed time to create the basic translation matrix. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 14:14, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I think the suggestion was that they time initially was spent working out how the language was structured and how it mapped onto English. Once that was established and their translator programmed, it could translate live. --Whouk (talk) 22:04, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Because it was like a "code-breaking" programme that finally cracked the code. PaulHammond 01:10, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation device 

message: Anyone think this is worth noting? Technology disguised as voodoo, an obsession with bone armor... --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 16:32, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Sycorax vs. Faction Paradox

message: Anyone know anything about the song at the end we could add as a note? The only stuff I can find online is reporting a rumour that it was specially written for the episode by Murray, but I've got no definitive source. --Whouk (talk) 00:22, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The song 

message: In the Tower of London scene — just as the Sycorax arrive — the PM is introduced to a Sally Jenkins, by the time she has fallen under the influence of the Sycorax, she has become Sally Jacobs. (This is the character played by Anita Breim.)
:I've watched it again; Blake does say "Sally Jacobs", not "Jenkins", but it can be mistaken for Jenkins because of the incidental music covering up part of it. But if you listen carefully it's definitely "Jacobs". --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 22:43, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sally Jenkins or Sally Jacobs? 

message: Might it be better just to say "This could be a reference to the Ice Warriors" and leave it at that? It's quite possible that UNIT could know about them from any source, including unrecorded adventures. The Ice Warriors article covers The Dying Days. --Whouk (talk) 10:23, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, but where does the reference come from? I can try expanding the note a bit, now that you mention unrecorded adventures, I recall something... --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 11:25, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: My point was really that the reason we're mentioning the Ice Warriors is that they are the Doctor Who Martians. Even if there had been no on-screen association previously between UNIT and the Ice Warriors, RTD could still have intended Blake's comment to refer to them. --Whouk (talk) 12:04, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I understand what you're getting at, but once we make that connection some bright spark is going to go, "Hang on, UNIT never met the Ice Warriors!" Or they're going to wrongly identify the Ambassadors of Death as the Martians or get the chronology wrong with the Seeds of Death, or whinge about a continuity error to prove their anorak credentials. At least this way can pre-empt that. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 12:23, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair enough :-) --Whouk (talk) 12:30, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

text: I wear my anorak with pride - I need no credentials. To quote a certain Time Lord, "I don't have to claim anything, I know how good I am." ;-) --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 17:27, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ice Warriors 

message: It is a new start for Earth as well; with so many people seeing the Sycorax ship, there is no covering up the existence of aliens this time. The Government covered up countless other incidents (the destruction of Big Ben in Aliens of London, the global Auton attacks in Rose etc). Why should this be any different? smurrayinchester(User), (Talk) 17:34, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: 'cause that's what the Doctor said. :) And the Guinevere One website and the UNIT website both take this position, with the latter only covering up the fact that the Sycorax ship was destroyed by the Torchwood-fired device. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 17:38, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, thanks. smurrayinchester(User), (Talk) 18:03, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Although as of Torchwood, we now know that it was, in fact, covered up, with Gwen's boyfriend Rhys believing it was all down to terrorists slipping psychotropes in the water. As Jack says, "What's it gonna take?" Daibhid C 00:12, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, we know no such thing - it may very well be that the situation is like what happened in the wake of UNIT: The Coup: the Silurians were revealed to the world but everyone figured it had to be fake. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 00:57, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair point. The effect's the same, but the public are doing it to themselves... Daibhid C 19:25, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "There is no covering up the existence of aliens this time" 

message: I didn't think it was the tree playing the music when I watched, but I haven't got the episode to hand to check. However, I'd contend that the song in The Gunfighters is as much incidental music with lyrics as the song in TCI. --Whouk (talk) 18:49, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Whouk on both counts.  Also, whether it's the tree or the incidental score, I'm not sure whether the playing of "Jingle Bells" is notable.  It's not like the appearance of the Beatles footage in The Chase, or even Jo Grant's Beatles misquote in The Three Doctors.  I'm not even sure it's the first Christmas song heard on Doctor Who — wasn't there a snippet of "God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen" in The Unquiet Dead? —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 19:08, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I bit my tongue, but I agree about the notability (or lack of it) too. It would also be worth checking the audio of "The Feast of Steven" just in case... --Whouk (talk) 19:46, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Watching that bit in TCI again, you're probably right that the tree wasn't playing the music. I got that impression because it was out of place compared to the rest of the score, it seemed to speed up with the spinning of the tree, and abruptly stopped when the tree was destroyed. Anyway, the notability bit still stands. In "The Feast of Steven" there were a couple of lines of "Good King Wencelas" (of course) at the start of it. I'm going to alter the note to reflect The Gunfighters. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 17:02, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Music 

message: I can see why the allusion to Spider-Man had to go.  That was on the fence as far as being deliberate, interesting though the coincidence is!  I have to disagree with the removal of the Star Wars references.  I can't see how a well-rounded sci-fi fan/writer could have a scene that parallel's Luke's severed hand and the Death Star firing SFX without it being intentional.  Those scenes are now so classic that they are practically canonical, even in the eyes of non-SW fans.  I mean, if someone writes a web comic with a severed hand in a sword fight that falls a long way down followed by a five-beam laser system that converges to a single beam, everyone is going to say: "So, watch much Star Wars lately?"  I don't even think there would be a question of whether it was intentional.  What do you think?
--proteus71 23:36, 16 Mar 2006
:While I agree that the Star Wars reference is much more suggestive, barring a statement by the production team I'd still leave it out. I'd rather err on the conservative side. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 23:55, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was extremely surprised to see the Death Star beam go unmentioned in the article. Questioning the hand I could understand (it never registered to me, at least) but the beam was such an obvious homage it seems incredibly strange to omit it. It would only have to be something like "the weapon fired by Torchwood bore a strong resemblance to planet-destroying beam of Star Wars' Death Star". It needn't be said that it was obviously intended. Just look up Torchwood and Death Star together in Google and you get several mentions from those (likely the vast majority, in truth) who noticed. --81.132.103.64 22:32, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

text: The problem with all these references is that no matter how obvious they may seem to a particular viewer, unless we can cite a reliable source making the comparison, it's original research.  It's not about what it looks like to us, it's what we can say it looked like to notable others. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 05:39, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Allusions

message: “At the start of Rose and Mickey's shopping trip a Routemaster bus is very briefly shown, presumably as a device to indicate that the episode is taking place in contemporary London. Most Routemasters were withdrawn from service on December 9, 2005, approximately two weeks before the show was broadcast in the UK, and at least one year before the date on which the episode is supposedly set. However a small number of these buses remain on the streets of London serving "heritage" routes aimed principally at the nostalgia market.”
Just curious, is there anything which explicitly prevents Rose from being set in 2004, which would allow everything from Aliens of London onward to be set in 2005, including this? Or any official/canonical statements placing those episodes in 2006? -- WikidSmaht (talk) 08:06, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. In Aliens of London the date of Rose's disappearance is definitively set, on her missing persons poster, as March 5, 2005. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 09:34, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Timing

message: Should it be pointed out that the aliens, when first introduced, are sitting in exactly (and I mean exactly) the same way as Queen at the beginning of the video clip for Bohemian Rhapsody? Or is that, y'know, ...
:Cite a source comparing the positions of the Sycorax to the video's choreography, and we'll talk.--SB | T 11:44, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Queen Connection

message: The trivia for this episode mentions the special Radio Times cover for the Christmas fortnight as having a Doctor Who cover.  This cover currently the infobox picture for the article at Radio_Times and the cover itself is at :Image:RadioTimes-cvr.jpg.  Should this be mentioned in the article?  We cannot use this picture in this article though, as it is uploaded under Fair Use which wouldn't apply in this case.  JP Godfrey (Talk to me) 12:38, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Simple enough to link it to the image; I've done so. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 13:20, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Radio Times Cover 

message: There is an online meme phrase inspired by this episode that goes "Don't you think Bush looks tired?". I'm quite bad at gauging how "big" a meme has become. What do you think? Does it qualify for a mention?
This episode also includes the first appearance of the (rather short-lived) running joke, "Harriet Jones, [former] Prime Minister"; "Yes, I know who you are". It's even said by the Dalek that exterminates her in "The Stolen Earth"Jeff (talk) 20:32, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Meme?

message: Why doesn't the Tardis translate the Doctor when he speaks in Sycoraxic? anemone│projectors 14:52, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This isn't a forum, so no place to start a discussion, or to speculate.  However, we do know that the Tardis translation is a "Time Lord gift", somehow connected telepathically with the Doctor (see TARDIS#Other systems).  It would seen logical that it doesn't translate the Doctor's speech if he doesn't want it to.  The Doctor himself knows thousands of languages. Gwinva (talk) 20:02, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: My excuse is that I thought it might have been some kind of error worthy of possible mention in the article. I wasn't expecting an answer, so thanks. It makes sense. anemone│projectors 20:25, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation 

message: In this torchwood episode Tommy, the subject of the episode says to Ianto, or the other way around "Saving the world in your pyjamas, nonense really" or something to that affect. Is this not an obvious allusion to this episode and so worth mentioning here?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.135.54.118 (talk) 05:02, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's alread mentioned in the respective Torchwood article, and it doesn't need to be repeated here. DonQuixote (talk) 14:34, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Torchwood S2 Ep.3 

message: I am in the UK, but I am absolutely certain that it was said by US fans at the time that the Children in Need special was not shown there as part of this episode. I just wanted to double check with you lot before I removed this apparent misinformation. Angmering (talk) 21:59, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Benjamin Elliott, author of the "This Week in Doctor Who" TV schedules column, has confirmed over on the Doctor Who Forum at Outpost Gallifrey that this never happened. I have now removed the offending passage. Angmering (talk) 10:05, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: US première

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thread_title:  External links modified