Talk:Ali and Nino

message: Yes, that might be a bit too many tags. However, I think they're most warranted. The article goes on about how terrific the book is, and how comparable it is to other classics, but does nothing to make it qualify this. A novel infobox might also be useful, I don't know. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 04:36, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: All that needs to be changed is to say that it's received a lot of sterling reviews and cite some articles that talk about how great it is and why. There's a bazillion of them out there, including an amazing account of whatsisname's life in the New Yorker, showing the literary detective work that was required to find out just who he really was. --Bluejay Young 20:04, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:07, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Aliundnino.jpg

message: The most recent research shows that the authorship of the novel Ali and Nino is very complex - due to the extremely complex period in which it was written about (1917-1920) and when it was eventually published (1937) in Austria. 
After six years of in-depth research of documents in National Archives in Azerbaijan, Georgia, Germany and major libraries, the conclusion reached by the staff of Azerbaijan International points to various hands - not one single one - being involved in the creation of this novel. Some of these are mentioned in the Footnotes to this article: (1) Azerbaijani Yusif Vazir Chamanzaminli is the core author. It was his original work. (2) Essad Bey got his hands on it (he was well-connected in Berlin and later Vienna) with agents and publishers. It can be proven that Essad Bey added legendary and folkloric material because he was a "copy and paste" writer and entire sections are found in some of his earlier works. Sections in the novel related to Tiflis and Iran were plagiarized from (3) Grigol Robakidze. (4) Elfriede Ehrenfels registered the Kurban Said pseudonym in her own name in German documents. 
Given that tens of thousands of immigrants had flocked to the capital cities of Europe, with the collapse of world empires such as the Russian Empire, Ottoman Empire etc, this makes sense that there were writers who were at the mercy of those who could exploit them. See the research produced by Azerbaijan International, Vol. 15:2-4 (2011). 364 page, 1200 photos
Gizgalasi (talk) 03:49, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Recent research

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thread_title: File:Maiden tower from Baku bay.jpg Nominated for Deletion

message: best discussed as a part of the article on the actual work in question  DGG ( talk ) 18:20, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  The suggestion has been made that this article - "Ali and Nino - Literary Robbery" be merged with "Ali and Nino - A love story". 
I think the two articles should stand as they are now and maintain their separate entries as they identify titles of two separate books. If the articles are merged, it's likely that more confusion will follow. "Literary Robbery" is the research of Georgian philologist Tamar Injia who goes to considerable length to discuss proof why she is sure that sections in the novel of "Ali and Nino-A Love Story" have been plagiarized from Georgian author Grigol Robakidze. Her separate article has been up on Wikipedia for several years and it seems to me it is correct to make it a separate topic.
Her work has been shown to be credible and is one of the important aspects of research about the novel. Gizgalasi (talk) 21:35, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed merge with [[Ali and Nino – Literary Robbery!]]

message: Hi, I just went through the entire authorship section and made a copyedit. My one main sense after doing so is that the Betty Blair section is overly long and seems fairly ludicrous. I took out most of the sarcasm directed at her opinions (Wikipedia is not a debate society), but the section is still too long and headachey and frankly overwhelms the authorship section while being at the same time the least convincing. To remedy this undue emphasis on mere hypotheses and conjectures, I suggest shortening it, preferably considerably. If that's hard to do, I would suggest just making generalizations that her theories are based on conjectures, summarizing them briefly, and then moving the bulk of the conjectures and hypothetical scenarios into textual foonotes. Perhaps that way readers who want to read the hypotheses can do so, and readers who just want effeciency and a summary are not bogged down by wordiness and long tales. Oddly, I think the Betty Blair section crucifies itself by its own wordiness, which might appeal to opponents of her theories, but do we really want that much text spent on them in the body of the article? Also, some of the inline rebuttals to her hypotheses would do better with a citation rather than being merely uncited observations or objections. Softlavender (talk) 08:42, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyedit and suggestions 

message: Softlavender - why are you reverting my changes? What is the reason? These are facts. They have nothing to do with Tom Reiss who you have constantly defended this past week. The novel "Ali and Nino" opens just prior to the outbreak of World War I. That would make it 1914, not 1918 when the war ends. Ali goes to Shusha so he can be close to Nino's family for the summer holiday when suddenly the war breaks out and everyone returns to Baku. And then there is a big discussion about Ali not being willing to go to war to fight for the Czar because this war is not his war - it is irrelevant to Azerbaijan. The point is critical to the development of the narrative because Ali disappoints his father by refusing to get involved in this war. Furthermore, Ali claims that it doesn't matter who might win this war - Czar or the Kaiser (both are Christian monarchies) and both would result in oppression for his countrymen. The 1914 date should be reverted. And why wasn't I alerted to this change via email? And why doesn't this reversion show up in the WATCHLIST? So many of the changes that have been made to this article this last week - especially by Tom Reiss (Marshallswift) have not shown up in the WATCHLIST CHANGES. Why is that? And no, I am notified of all changes - even Minor edits. 
Also, the copyright page of the original 1937 German Edition of "Ali and Nino" clearly shows that it belonged to E.P. Tal Verlag who owned the copyright. In addition the first US English edition 1970 by Random House shows Lucy Tal to be the copyright owner (her husband had died). Also the 1970 British edition by Hutchinson also shows Lucy Tal as copyright holder. It was not Elfriede Ehrenfels or Leela Ehrenfels (born 1965). The book's copyright page reads Tal. In fact, all editions of Ali and Nino indicate that the Tals held the copyright until This is relevant as a NOTE because contemporary editions try to show that Leela Ehrenfels has owned the copyright since 1937 when she wasn't even born. And this is not what the copyright shows in the original German copy. Shouldn't readers know this now that a major film about this novel is in the works? I think it deserves at least a footnote.  
What is the problem with defining the dates of the short-lived independent Republic of Azerbaijan (23 months: May 28, 1918 to April 28, 1920)? The whole book centers around Azerbaijan trying to hold on to this independence. And many readers will not know these dates which help to clarify the time frame. These dates should be left in to help readers more clearly understand the chronology. Not all readers will know that for Azerbaijan, the occupation began in 1920 as it was different for the various Republics that later made up the Soviet Union.
Gizgalasi (talk) 05:34, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Gizgalasi: Those were distracting and unnecessary and excessive and repetitive or redundant details and footnotes which only cluttered the article and made it more confusing. Anyone can click on the wikilinks if they want to see further details. You have been warned about editing these articles, and therefore any edits you make will be under scrutiny, and if substantive will probably be deleted and/or lead to further blocks. If you want a substantive edit made to the article, request it here on the Talk page, and editors without a COI will decide whether to make it or not. Softlavender (talk) 06:19, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  SoftLavender 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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