Talk:Rabindranath Tagore/Archive 1

message: The Tagore article was (and remains) so sparse!! His literary canon is
hardly discussed, except some banal remarks on his excellence.  Much
more solid work is needed in this article... and we cannot
do it based on internet sources alone.  We need volunteers to elaborate
on:
 - his extensive travels, from 1912 onwards - he went to the middle-East,
    Argentina (his relationship with Ocampo), Europe (esp. Germany, where
    they still have a Tagore center in Berlin), etc. 
 - his short stories, which I wanted to say something about but 
   fell short in the edits I have put in today...
 - his novels - esp gorA, sheSher kabitA, nashTanIr (basis for movie, chArulatA) -      
    and also reflecting on his relationship with Kadambari
 - the people he interacted with - his work at shantiniketan - who visited 
   him - JC Bose, Mahalanabis, Chinese scholars etc. 
Should we set up a team?  Let me know if you would like to take up one
of these topics (or any other). 
As for the dates, 22 Shravana fell on 6 August some years like 2004. 
But the year he died, 1941, it was on 7 August, I believe. 
Let's not bicker about dates.  Also Balatonfured is such a marginal
episode... let's get on with the basics!
And as for Bangladesh - of course Tagore was a Bangladeshi.  He never
knew there would be two different nations where he stood...  I think
there is enough Tagore for the whole world, and let us not fight over
his legacy in these two puny insignificant populations...
:Rabindranath Tagore was not a Bangladeshi. There was no country named Bangladesh when Rabindranath died. Yes, "Bangladesh" was used to refer to the united Bengal but after 1971, formally and legally, "Bangladesh" is used to refer to East Bengal. Furthermore, there was no such word as "Bangladeshi"...there was only "Bengali" and "Bangalee" for East Bengalis. Rabindranath was born in West Bengal and therefore, no way he was a Bangladeshi. In wikipedia, we talk in formally and legally not culturally or patriotically. Maybe patriotically Tagore was a Bangladeshi as his songs played a tremendous role in 1971 freedom struggle. However, too bad it is an encyclopedia for everyone not encyclopedia with a "Bangladeshi" angle. Thinker2006 18:54, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I am the one who categorized Tagore as Bangladeshi. As you correctly point out that pre-1971 there was no Bangladesh. But note this: there was likewise (pre-1947) no India — only the Raj and some princely states. Does this mean that Tagore was not Indian? No, he was, since he lived in what is now India. In addition, Tagore lived in what is now Bangladesh for some eleven years (at Shelidah). Saravask 03:54, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I completely agree. The same reason why he's an "Indian poet" referring to the current country of India, he is a "Bangladeshi writer" referring to the current country of Bangladesh. When he died, none existed. His categorization as a "Bengali writer/novelist" is unquestionable, but "X novelist", X being the name of a current country, is dubious, let X be India or Bangladesh. So, I don't see any reason of excluding one while including the other. Thanks. --Ragib 04:22, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: We are talking about geographic region here. You are wrong to say that formally india never existed before 1947. Actually India always existed. "India" was used to refer to the geographic region of South-Asia by the non-South Asians. For instance, British East India company is named after india. Rabindranath is from the geographic region of India but he is not from the current geographic region of Bangladesh. If ever in the near future west bengal separate from india and unite with Bangladesh, he would be referred to as a "Bangladeshi" writer because then he would be from the geographical area, known as "Bangladesh." However, now, he is from the geographical area named India, not Bangladesh. Geographically Bangladesh is located a little bit on the east from the area he was actually from. Also, yes, tagore lived in bangladesh but not for a long time. He lived more in West Bengal. That's where he was born and grown up. Rabindranath also lived in Britain, so is he a British writer? Thinker2006 16:13, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not going to make a big issue of this by acting on Ragib's sound/sensible advice and de-listing Tagore from the "Category:Indian X" categories — we need to focus on getting this to FAC via more substantive edits. However, I'll say this: I wish someone would move/rename all the "Indian X" categories to read "South Asian X" (or better yet, divide them into ethnicity-based subcategories like "Marathi X", "Malayali X", "Tamil X", "Sindhi X", etc.) IMHO, "South Asia" is a far more NPOV term for the geographical region/culture to which Tagore belongs than "India" — and I say this as an India-born PIO, bcs it needlessly antagonizes/alienates Bangladeshis, Pakistanis, Bhutanese, etc. Given the inextricably intertwined histories of South Asian countries, either of these approaches would be (as Ragib pointed out) far less dubious than merely categorizing him in such an illogical/binary fashion as Indian or Bangladeshi. Given how anti-nationalist Tagore himself was, should we now really be that concerned w/ sticking him under one nationality or another, or refusing to list him under other nationalities due to technicalities? Hope this helps. Saravask 23:22, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Let's drop philosophical elements and stick with official documents, shall we? Officially, Tagore is an Indian, not a Bangladeshi and we should report that. I guess you could go to the court and prove that Tagore is not an Indian. Then that would a different story. About your philosophy on South-Asia, well that is a way too liberal or lefty way of thinking. What about in wikipedia, we dissolve all the countries because don't you think that would be a better NPOV? Thinker2006 03:24, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

text: I guess Tagore is now a Hungarian poet too, eh? Stop trying to categorize Tagore as a Bangladeshi poet. There has been enough discussion regarding this showing that Tagore is not a Bangladeshi. Hikingdom 00:46, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sparse 

message: Could upload picture of Tagore promenade in Balatonfüred, if requested
:Good idea, but put it in the article on Balatonfüred, where it would be more relevant, then it can be mentioned in this article and a link to the town will allow people to see it. Trilobite (Talk) 01:57, 5 Sep 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  picture of Tagore promenade 

message: Tagore couldn't have pioneered it if his ideas helped refute Kipling's, which were already around.  –JerryFriedman 21:22, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not pioneering East-West analysis 

message: Dwarakanath was a Brahmo???? This article needs serious upgrading. --ppm 00:21, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dwarakanath etc 

message: There is no mention of the famous the T-E Conversation.So Sad.I cannot edit right now,for I dont have much insight to Tagore's philosophy.--Sahodaran 13:38, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Tagore-Einstein Conversation

message: Tagore was influential in the creation of the progressive British educational foundation Dartington Hall and the subsequently created Dartington College of Arts in Totnes, Devon, England (really a degree granting university). Shame we can't have more about this on the main page. Autumnleaf 23:15, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  tagore and dartington 

message: Wondering if it is now time for cutting down the article a bit.--67.80.150.102 04:26, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: We could do that. Of course, if we did, we can forget about ever putting this up for FAC. Saravask 14:38, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, what I meant by the above was that I'm planning on systematizing and organizing the article's contents. I just ordered a thick autobiography that should fuel the creation of one or more subarticles. Much of the contents here will then likely be shunted into thost daughters. The book is late, however, which is why I'm continuing to delay on finishing this article for FAC. Until then, no one should be removing or deleting large blocks of content. It will all be organized in due time. Saravask 00:51, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  A bit too long? 

message: Juan Ramón Jiménez was not an Argentinean. He was rather a Spaniard. Someone should correct that.
:Done (). Saravask 20:30, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Juan Ramón Jiménez 

message: The article is looking much better now --ppm 18:41, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  better 

message: Tagore came to USA on November 1912, to visit his son Rathindranath. He was here when he got the news of his nobel prize. He also used Urbana as a home base to visit various places in USA. I think these facts can be added to the article. There is actually a house in Urbana where Tagore stayed for a year or so. For references see the Urbana Tagore center page. --Ragib 18:55, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. I'll put ref/info in tomorrow. Saravask 23:05, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tagore in [[Urbana]], Illinois 

message: Great recent work. A few comments.
1. "As a result, he won the nobel prize"..."as a result" seems unnecessary
2. Its "Bhanu Singho", not "Bhanu Singh". --ppm 06:01, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks; the fixes have been made (). Yet (oddly) Robinson & Dutta (1995) spell it "Bhanu Singh" (without the "o"). Still, I'll take your word on the spelling. Saravask 06:07, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Interesting. The only reason of that I can think of that is this. The main work he wrote using this psuedonym is "Bhanu Singher Padaboli" (rough translation: The poems of Bhanu Singho). Now due to attachment "er" at the end of Bhanu Singho (which means "of"), the vowel "o" gets suppressed while pronouning it. But as far as the psuedonym itself goes, I am quite sure it is Bhanu Singho.--ppm 18:38, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

text: I removed reference to Nazrul (thanks), but I must disagree with your second point. This ambivalent attitude is central to Tagore's relationship with Gandhi and India. It's that confusion on his part that caused Indian nationalists to try to assassinate Tagore when he visited San Francisco (they viewed him (because of his opposition to "the cult of the Charka") as an agent working for the British). Saravask 21:11, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But if you want, we can condense it. :-) Saravask 21:48, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

text:  It looks great now. I agree that the issue should be addressed. I haven't read it recently, but the politics section hopefully does that.--ppm 00:48, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some comments 

message: Stumbled across a interesting piece of information while websurfing for complete unrelated reason:
"the Czech Indiologist Vincent Slesny was the first European person to translate Rabindranath Tagore from the original into a European language, the first European or westerner ever."
http://www.radio.cz/en/article/77431
--ppm 06:00, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks — it has been added (). Saravask 06:26, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Random info 

message: Hey, first of all really nice work been done here.  I hope you guys get this article to FA status soon.  I am concerned about the length of this article though.  It seems to be going up everytime I look at it.  --Blacksun 06:22, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: article length

message: I think the works section can be shortened quite a bit, especially since the current main article is mostly a copy/paste of what we have here.
#In poetry, I would consider removing this entire section: In Dui Bigha Jomi ("A Strip of Land"), Tagore explores the plight of a sharecropper whose meager parcel of farmland is taken over — using falsified papers — by a moneylender; the poem concludes: "rajar hosto kore shomosto kangaler dhon churi" ("it is the king's hand that steals from the downtrodden"). Sonar Tori also contains Hing Ting Chhot. Although comic in form, it illuminates what Tagore saw as Bengali society's crippling lack of vision, originality, and wisdom: durbodh ja chhilo kichu hoye gelo jol, shunno akasher moto ottonto nirmol ("Oh yes, now all has been explained, like the empty expanse of the open sky").   This can be replaced with a short summary sentence that says something like "Tagore's poetry, varying in style from formal to comic, dealt with social, economic, and political issues of the time."
#In short story section, I would not even TOUCH the first paragraph.  It is soooo beautiful.  Please leave it like it is as it really describes the writing very well.  However, I think the second paragraph is where the cutting can be done.  This: "Tagore's Golpoguchchho ("Bunch of Stories") remains among the most popular fictional works in Bangla literature. Its continuing influence on Bengali art and culture cannot be overstated; to this day, Golpoguchchho remains a point of cultural reference. Golpoguchchho has furnished subject matter for numerous successful films and theatrical plays, and its characters are among the most well known to Bengalis. The acclaimed film director Satyajit Ray based his film Charulata ("The Lonely Wife") on Nashtanir ("The Broken Nest"). This famous story has an autobiographical element to it, modelled to some extent on the relationship between Tagore and his sister-in-law, Kadambari Devi. Ray has also made memorable films of other stories from Golpoguchchho, including Samapti, Postmaster and Monihara, bundling them together as Teen Kanya ("Three Daughters")." should be replaced by a short statement like, "Tagore's Golpoguchchho ("Bunch of Stories") remains among the most popular fictional works in Bangla literature, and has provided subject matter for numerous successful films and theatrical plays like acclaimed film director Satyajit Ray's film Charulata."  This sentence can be merged with the ending of the first paragraph.
#I think the final paragraph of the short stories can be shortened without sacrificing important details.  For example, "Atithi is another poignantly lyrical Tagore story. Tarapada, a young Brahmin boy, catches a boat ride with a village zamindar. It turns out that he has run away from his home and has been wandering around ever since. The zamindar adopts him, and finally arranges a marriage to his own daughter. The night before the wedding Tarapada runs away again. does not tell me anything relevant about the story.  Sure it sounds interesting but is just a dry description.  Either take it out or replace it with a brief statement about the point of the story.  In the same manner, I think you should stick to the message of the story without going into the details about character and plot of the story in the remainder of the paragraph.  That will definitely help shave off 6-7 lines. --Blacksun 02:11, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Great advice. I've done the first two of these, and will take care of the rest when I finish my rewrite of "Works". Saravask 22:01, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Right now, I'm studying "Short stories" and "Poetry" (the two bloated/problem sections still remaining) to see how they can be better-written. If I can't figure out what to do with them, then I'll just keep what we have now and shorten it using the thrid suggestion you made. Saravask 18:37, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Suggestions for summarizing

message: About this recent change, is their such a denomination? --67.80.150.102 04:44, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: scholarly speaking, yes. (I believe).--Blacksun 06:09, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vedanta Hindu 

message: *In the lead, Ultimately, the loss of Tagore's wife and four children led him to probe death's nature, mostly in his later works. Yet his life's work — Visva-Bharati University — endured.. Why this "yet"? I mean it tends to indicate as if the death of his wife and 4 children could somehow have caused the demise of Visva-Bharati, however, it did not happen. This is a very minor issue, but , I think the sentence structure here could be slightly modified. I myself am not sure if I could make the point clear!!
*After undergoing his upanayan coming-of-age rite at age eleven, Tagore and his father left Calcutta.... Will it be better with a bracket? Like this : ...upanayan (coming-of-age rite) at age... Or may be a wikilink?
*Nirjharer Svapnabhanga: if the spelling is from the some source, it's ok. Otherwise better spelling is swapnabhanga.
*with more than half the stories of the three-volume Galpaguchchha — a collection of eighty-four stories — written. With irony and emotional weight, they — including Sonar Tari (1894), Chitra (1896), and Katha O Kahini (1900) — depicted a wide range of Bengali lifestyles, especially village life. : But Sonar Tari is a poetry, Chitra is a drama and Katha O Kahini  is a kind of stories in verse. Please check.
A fantastic article. Just waiting to see it become an FA. Bye.--Dwaipayanc 04:51, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Took care of everything except the last point. As I explained below, I didn't write most of "Short stories" and "Poetry". I'm going to overhaul these w/ new sources. Saravask 22:01, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: some points

message: * Is the adjective majic-realist for Valmiki-Pratibha coming from the reference given?
:No — initially, it seemed like an obvious inference to make; upon reading it again, it seems much closer to original research than I previously thought. Everything else is as stated by the source.
* Sonar Tori (the collection) is being given a lot of importanc, perhaps too much?
:Yes. I didn't write most of the content under "Works" (I mostly just copyedited and re-organized). I'm working on re-writing "Poetry" and "Short stories" with better sources, like I rewrote "Theatrical ..." and "Novels ...". Hopefully this issue will be taken care of by then.
* "Yet, Tagore's music is inseparable from his literature" -- why "yet"?
:It has been removed.
* Tagores "near total eclipse" (a phrase from Amartya Sen) is not discussed at all. This seems important. --ppm 17:34, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for all your comments. It was added under "Impact", grouped together with the sentence describing his controversy. Saravask 22:01, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Oops, I missed that fragment. Thanks for the continual work of great quality on the article. You'll probably get to it, but the sentence that contains that fragment "near total eclipse" still seems unstaisfactory. Tagore's decline in west was due as much to a declined appreciation of his literature as it was for the controversies mentioned. Many western critics at some point simply stopped thinking his literature any good. --ppm 01:02, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I've read about this. I will need to add a sentence or two about it. Saravask 01:47, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: some more points

message: Would be cool if this article goes on "today's featured article" for May 7th.--Blacksun 15:53, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: May 7th

message: Why now (syncretic monotheist)? This is confusing.--ppm 16:24, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's the most accurate/trite wording I could think of, and at any rate users who don't know those terms are only one click away from finding out. Saravask 18:14, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

text: given the bad state of the Brahmo article itself, the link (strained as it is)  of Brahmo samaj with Hinduism is even more obfuscated now. Otherwise I am okay with the desc--ppm 20:23, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It has been modified again to include "Hindu" (). Thanks. Saravask 04:23, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brahmo, again! 

message: *"A week after their 6 November 1924 arrival in Buenos Aires, Argentina,[29] an ill Tagore moved into the Villa Miralrío .." Why "their"? whose? Do you mean Tagore and Ocampo? This pronoun seems to have no preceeding noun.
*"There, he wrote his Hibbert Lectures for the University of Oxford, which dealt with the "idea of the humanity of our God, or the divinity of Man the Eternal") and spoke at London's annual Quaker gathering". A btcket is either extra, or, missing. Please see.
* The play Dak Ghar (The Post office) is mentioned twice in "Theatrical pieces". However, the names appear different: Once Dak Ghar, and again, Dakghar. The english names also differ by the addition of "the". Please see.--Dwaipayanc 19:05, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I made the fixes (); thanks for your help. Saravask 04:35, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Minor copyedits

message: I've been WP:BOLD and restored the deleted cats, as it appears the one who deleted them has left Wikipedia and the others commenting on this favor their inclusion. The reasons: Tagore's mother and wife (not to mention all the brides taken by Tagore men) come from what is now Bangladesh, while Tagore himself lived in East Bengal (Bangladesh) for more than a decade and on-and-off lived in his estate house at Shelidah throughout the rest of his life. Saravask 05:03, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, but I beg to differ with your judgement. Just because the people against the portrayal of Tagore "left" wikipedia do not give you the rights to carry out such a conclusion. This article is about Tagore, not his wife or kids. Tagore is from what is currently known as India. Therefore, he is not a Bangladeshi poet. Therefore, please stop trying to portray him like that! I say before this issue is resolved, he should not be portrayed as Bangladeshi. !Hikingdom 00:51, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Then he can't be termed as Indian either!! Tagore is a Bengali poet. The region of Bengal is now divided between India and Bangladesh, but Tagore died way before that. Tagore is from Bengal and his family estates were distributed between the eastern and western parts. Now, parts of his family estates fell in West Bengal and parts fell in East. Culturally, the Bengali literature and life is deeply influenced by Tagore. This includes both the parts of Bengal that fell inside India and that what is now Bangladesh. Thanks. --Ragib 00:57, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I totally agree with you that TAgore has influenced through his writing in both Bengal. That's why he is liked by people from both Bengal and that's why he is considered a Bengali poet. However, as I said earlier, let's not get into philosophical issues here. Tagore was named an Indian poet a way before India came into being. For instance, he won the nobel prize for literature as an "indian" writer. Therefore, he can be considered an Indian but Bangladesh came into being a way after. There was no country named "Bangladesh" when Rabindranath was alive but the name "India" was used to refer to the geographical region of South-Asia. Therefore, Rabindranath was an Indian poet. Now, legally Rabindranath is not considered a "Bangladeshi" by the Bangladesh government but "Rabindranath" is considered Indian by Indian government. Therefore, let's not drift away from the recognized matter here. BTW, my personal issue with Bangladesh has nothing to do with this categorizing issue. I would appreciate if you could kindly stop presuming too much. I am just trying to show you all that let's stick with legal matters here. Let's not try to disorient the readers of wikipedia with what Bengalis think. Thank you. Have a nice Day Hikingdom 01:10, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

text:  Why Iqbal, what about Nazrul? Nazrul, eventhough born in geographical area of India is considered a Bangladeshi poet because in 1975 Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman brought him to Bangladesh and gave him Bangladeshi citizenship. Therefore, legally he is a Bangladeshi. Anyways, you are welcome to argue that on that basis with Pakistanis. I don't know if Iqbal is legally considered a "Pakistani citizen" by Pakistani government or not. If he is, then the Pakistanis have the rights to call him a Pakistani. Therefore, I cannot argue on that. However, Rabindranath is not a legal citizen of Bangladesh. Nowhere it is mentioned that Tagore is a Bangladeshi poet other than wikipedia. I understand that Bengalis (west and east) would not mind calling him a Bangladeshi poet. Nevertheless, the law does mind. Tagore would be an illegal immigrant in Bangladesh if he was alive today. LOL Hikingdom 01:33, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Bangladeshi X" cats 

message: concerning "crude emergence" of modernity and realism in Bengali poetry in 1930's. Again my question is the notion of crudity coming from the reference? Even if it is, and though it might be true to some extent, a blanket statement seems inappropriate. "The" Jibanananda Das was active then, so was Sudhindranath, Bishnu Dey, to mention a few luminaries.--ppm 05:13, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it is directly from the reference (Dutta and Robinson 1995); they use that very blanket statement. Alternative wording is welcome. Thanks. Saravask 05:17, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  small question 

message: My heartiest congratulations to Saravask and other editors whose efforts made this article into a Featured article.  You guys worked hard, and now you can enjoy the result!! --Ragib 06:49, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Also ppm, Ragib, Dwaipayanc, and Blacksun. Looks like we've just written the first South Asian literature-related FA on the English Wikipedia. Looks like it won't be long before Bangladesh is also promoted. My congratulations to all the Bengalis (or Bengal-lovers) working here. :-) Saravask 06:57, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: CONGRATS.--Dwaipayanc 11:43, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Awesome!! Guys, I have requested this to be a today's featured article for May 7th . --Blacksun 14:01, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Thanks and congrats to Saravask, and every other editor of this beautiful article--ppm 19:46, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just notices the TFA status... congrats! --hydkat 12:17, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, it's going there on 7th May. Great.--Dwaipayan (talk) 17:51, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Awesome!--ppm 21:29, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Congratulations! 

message: Hi, I would like to add an external link to the World of Biography entry
* Rabindranath Tagore Biography probably the most famous portal of biography to this article. Does anybody have any objections? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Raghuvir (talk • contribs) 
:Sorry I believe that link is considered a spam in wikipedia and anyways their "biography" seems to be one paragraph long.  It adds nothing to the article.  -Blacksun 14:45, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The biography does have several sections beyond the initial paragraph including a timeline but there are problems with the site. Most importantly, it does not cite any sources for the information portrayed, which means it could quite easily provide uninformed readers with inaccurate information. Instead the website claims copyright, which could be interpreted as copyright over all the material there. Also, by the link that I found here this website has only been operational for a short time. The website has a low Alexa ranking and it has not yet been archived at the Internet Archive. It's difficult to see how it can be famous after existing for a few weeks even if it is a relaunch. The website which it has been relaunched from ceased operating in late 2003 so it is worth asking whether this is not just advertising for the new website, especially when you look at the user's contribution history and notice that the same request has been made on approximately 35 articles? Yours cynically, :) Green Giant 02:36, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  World Of Biography 

message: Is he then "Sir Rabindranath Tagore" and should the first line call him such? Srnec 01:04, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, he renounced knight hood in 1919, following the Jaliwanwalabag massacre. Thanks. --Ragib 01:17, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

text: In fact, a knighthood once accepted cannot be unilaterally cancelled by its recipient.  It can only be rescinded by the crown, which as far as I'm aware never occurred in this case.  If a knight "renounces" his knighthood, that means he makes a personal decision to remove any postnominal letters and cease referring to himself as "Sir"; officially his knighthood remains.  The timeline is slightly misleading where it says he "unsuccessfully renounced" his knighthood.  He did indeed renounce it, but his knighthood was never rescinded.  JackofOz 01:40, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I don't know what our policy on that is, but I recommend we do not call him "Sir Rabindranath".  In accordance with his wishes, the world generally ceased calling him Sir after 1919.  As far as he was concerned, morally he was no longer a knight, despite the technicalities.  JackofOz 03:45, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. The post-1919 media, scholarly research, and everything else has no reference to him as "Sir".  Thanks. --Ragib 04:08, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Dubbing?

message: I mean was he born in what today is the Republic of India? I understand he was but I think it should be made more clear in the beginning of the article. For someone with little knowledge about India, the reference to Bengal is not enough; Also his birthplace does not appear explicitly. All of this I think should appear immediately after the dates of birth and death. 217.130.121.152 06:01, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Birth place has been now clarified in the beginning of the second paragraph of the lead.--Dwaipayan (talk) 06:10, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

text: The answer is a bit confusing ... he was from the Bengal region of British India, his birthplace (Jorasanko, Kolkata) and Santiniketon fell in the Republic of India in the 1947 parition, while his Shilaidoho Kuthibari, and the places where he dwelt in early years, fell inside East Bengal, which was renamed East Pakistan, and later became Bangladesh. So, technically, he was not born or died in Republic of India, but I guess people can generally understand and term the region as India. After Dwaipayan's clarification, I guess the issue is settled clearly. --Ragib 06:15, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think India and Republic of India are the same thing. Such a interpretation means nobody born before 1947 can possibly be "Indian", which is ridiculous--ppm 18:24, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So do you agree with Dwaipayanc's rewrite saying he was born in British India? Saravask 19:07, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Depends on what it means by agreeing. It's not wrong, but unhelpful, specially regarging an artist. The political status of India at that time seems somewhat uninteresting. anyway, I am not to picky about this. But consider "Aryabhatta was born in (insert name of ruler) India"...sounds redundant to me--ppm 19:12, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  was he from India 

message: See User:Raul654/protection — it should never have been sprotected that long. Anons often make very useful contributions and corrections to TFAs like this one. Saravask 06:44, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protection 

message: I've discovered that there is style guideline on this issue
. The relevant points are as follows:
*"For ease of understanding, fairly broad IPA transcriptions are usually used."
*"When transcribing foreign names, you may write two transcriptions: the native pronunciation and English pronunciation. The English transcription must always be first. If the native name is different than the English name, the native transcription must be after the native name."
Based this guideline, I'm going to broaden transcription of the Indian English audio file ([ɹobin̪d̪ɾonat̪ʰ ʈʰakuɹ] → [roˈbindroˌnat taˈgur] -- note that narrowly phonetic [k] maps to phonemic [g] here). I'll move the narrow transcription to a footnote. I'll also provide [taˈgɔ(r)] as an alternative (more thoroughly anglicised) pronunciation of Tagore.--Chris 17:12, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with the above points. I just want to make sure, though, that people know that the term "broad transcription" does not necessarily mean English transcription; it just means keeping in the minimal information needed to derive the phonetic pronunciation given the phonological patterns of the language. What we have now ([ɹobin̪d̪ɾonat̪ʰ ʈʰakuɹ]), is exactly the broad phonemic transcription for the native Bengali pronunciation. Well, that's a lie. [ɹobind̪ɹonat̪ʰ ʈʰakuɹ] would be the broad phonemic version for Bengali. [roˈbindroˌnat taˈgur] works for the broad phonemic version for English. Of course, a narrow phonetic transcription would be far more complicated than these two versions. Anyhow, I just wanted to make sure everyone was okay with [ɹobind̪ɹonat̪ʰ ʈʰakuɹ] as the broad transcription of the non-English pronunciation. --SameerKhan 08:15, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Manual of Style

message: I feel really nice to see this page's elevation to the status of FA. I congratulate the team of editors making this possible. Regards. --Bhadani 07:42, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Great work

message: In the Theatrical Works section, there's a sentence "Another is Tagore's Chandalika (Untouchable Girl), which was modeled on an ancient Buddhist legend describing how Ananda — the Gautama Buddha's disciple — asks water of an Adivasi ("untouchable") girl."  I was wondering if there's an error here in the phrase, "asks water of an Adivasi girl."  I believe the author meant "pani-prarthi" in Bengali, which mean "seeking the hand of someone in marriage."  I don't think it can be translated to "asks the water of."  However, I myself haven't read Chandalika, so I'm not sure what exactly happens.  Could someone with relevant knowledge please look into it?  Thanks!
Congratulations on all those who worked on this article.  Waking up in the morning and seeing Tagore's article as the FA in English Wikipedia was a great pleasure! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eendrani (talk • contribs) 
:The story is much more complicated than that, though not all the details are fresh in my mind. here's a summary. He (a celibate monk) only asks water of her, while she, starstruck, seeks to bewitch him into loving her. Otherwise, we're glad you like the article! Saravask 12:11, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is there an error? 

message: --Greasysteve13 11:39, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  What's with the picture of the white guy? 

message: Congratulations on the article making it to the front page on his birthday. :) Green Giant 15:52, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Congratulations 

message: Someone moved the article. Can we find it? -- Jjjsixsix (t)/(c) @ 22:43, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Forget it, I get it. Protection is/was/is still a good idea. -- Jjjsixsix (t)/(c) @ 22:48, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, as in the repeated posting of a phone number of an editor. -- Jjjsixsix (t)/(c) @ 22:59, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Redlink on main page

message: I dont care if you say born in India or Bangladesh or Pakistan or England but "born in British India" is rather retarded.  Does the article on Gandhi state that he was born in "British Gujarat, British India"?  I understand that this was some type of weird compromise but pick one and stick with it.  Was he born in present day India or present day Bangladesh?  Just say that he was born in <insert name of city> in present-day <insert name of country>.  Where the hell am I supposed to buy my ticket to if I wanted to visit his birth place?  I dont think my local airlines will know where British India is!! 
And regarding the entire hoopla you guys have going regarding whether he was Bangladeshi or Indian:
* Encarta calls him an Indian poet; 
*Britannica calls him a Bengali poet but states that "He was highly influential in introducing the best of Indian culture to the West and vice versa, and he is generally regarded as the outstanding creative artist of modern India;"  
* Nobel prize medals were reissued to the Indian government by Sweden's Nobel foundation in 2004.
--Blacksun 02:42, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, Rabindranath has been known as an Indian in all documents all over the world. Hikingdom 03:48, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we are both motivated by slightly different things.  I actually dont really mind if he is categorized as part of Bangladeshi culture or whatever.  It is bit silly to fight over who he belonged to.  Don't you think?  He belongs to humanity.  But yes, we should strive for accuracy in Wikipedia. --Blacksun 04:39, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

text: These sorts of debates often arise when borders change, especially if unpleasantless was involved. It also sounds strange to say that Immanuel Kant was born in Russia, but that's what your principle would lead to. According to Wikipedia, and probably most writers, he was born in East Prussia, which, like British India, no longer exists. Deciding on the most reasonable course is a matter of judgement, and people will frequently disagree.--Chris 17:37, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I dont think their was a political entity called British India (as in the british government did not refer to their Indian colony as British India).  So, the analogy with Eastern Prussia which is geographic in nature does not really work.  I could be wrong.  Also, I have never heard of anyone else being stated as born in British India before.  We are inventing our own terms here which is not what wikipedia is supposed to do. --Blacksun 20:35, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think better would be ,"...in Kolkata (then Calcutta) in the present state of West Bengal, India ( then a part of the British empire) ". Any comments?--Dwaipayan (talk) 04:18, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That works for me.  I had a problem with the Calcutta (kolkata) part too as it goes against the naming of Kolkata in the main article.  --Blacksun 07:35, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "Born in British India" is ridiculous

message: The "controversy" seems to go on! I find this funny and an instinctive desire to not get into, but anyway. Can we just remove references to bengal altogether and just go with "Indian poet"? "Indian Bengali" means what, specially since it was seemingly established there was only one kind around at that time?--ppm 03:48, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Let me clarify what I mean. There will always be an issue of arguing whether being an "Indian" something in pre-1947 days is the same as being an Indian, the latter referring to the modern post 1947 country. But what will NOT at all be controversial is that Tagore was a Bengali poet. So, keeping that as an adjective sounds the most logical and devoid of problematic issues. --Ragib 04:19, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Usage of Indian Bengali is absolutely correct in this context .he should not be appropriated by the same people who divided the motherland just because they prayed to a different direction.Bharatveer 05:40, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Isn't that a backhanded and illogical remark? Have you read the point raised at all? Anyway, what's your take on Shmitra's comment? --Ragib 05:43, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

text: And why is that? Why does Bengali confuse you? --Ragib 06:21, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

text: No, I don't, and would like to hear from you. Thanks. --Ragib 06:40, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I am constantly amazed by the immature behavior of some Wikipedians, forcing their own views in articles in place of the compromises made in a public discussion. --SameerKhan 05:38, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  See my talk page.Bharatveer 06:51, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

text: See your talk page. And also, above. --Ragib 07:07, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

text: I request Bharatveer again, PLEASE show a precedent that categorizes an English person as "British English". Otherwise, please stop reverting. I've mentioned above that I have no problem with "Bengali poet from Undivided India". Thank you. --Ragib 07:13, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The article looks quite ok (better than before) now. Thanks-Bharatveer 07:31, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, your most welcome. Thank you. --Ragib 07:42, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  "Bengali poet from Undivided India" is informative, so it's fine, and I don't see any need for further edit wars etc. However, a certain mentality is on display here which is very interesting...just look at this comment from Bharatveer: "Indian Bengali is correct : there was only one Bengali in 1940 that was Indian Bengali : Fortunately or unfortunately there are 2 (types) of bengalis now". Well "Asian Indian Bengali" is also "correct". Would you agree to refer to every Indian as Asian Indian just because of that?  Do I need to spell it more clearly, or do you understand that what you are trying to do is voraciously gobble up every identity that doesn't suit your taste of uniformity? --ppm 19:37, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  I thought we were done with this 

message: Satyajit Ray is up for a peer review. Please take a look. Thanks--ppm 17:49, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request, if I may 

message: Has anyone noticed that the image at the top of the page is gone? Tagore3.jpg has been deleted from commons on Sep 26. I wonder why the admin there didn't bother to check the usage before deletion. 
Anyway, this should be corrected soon, as it is creating redlinks all over wikipedia (not only en, but also in other languages).
--Ragib 20:07, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, I contacted the deleting admin at commons, and he has restored the image. Apparently, someone had removed src/license info from the image page, resulting in its deletion later. I've added several sources for the image there. --Ragib 21:07, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image deleted