Talk:Carnage (character)

message: I didn't realize Carnage was more than 8 times stronger than the Thing.  Can someone provide a citation if this is true?
He's not; He is, however, stronger then Spider-Man and Venom combined. Last I heard, he could lift 80 tons. Bluecatcinema 12:33, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: 800 tons!?

message: (From Carnage Rulzs page on the Marvel World Order site, citing article "Ahhhh, Where it all began!" By David Michelinie ) 
"I wanted to kill the guy. No, no not my editor--he signs the checks! Actually, I wanted to kill Venom. I would have, too, if not for...ah, but I'm getting ahead of myself. 
In the beginning, there was an alien symbiote that Spider-Man had brought back from a distant planet. Emulating a sentient, black and white costume, the creature tried eventually to bond permanently with Peter Parker, everyone's favorite web-slinging wonder. However, Spidey fought back and in the course of the battle it wound up sacrificing itself at the last moment to save Spider-Man. Then a year or two later when I began writing for the Amazing Spider-Man, a new villain was called for, and I resurrected an idea I'd begun developing in another book. As a result, I brought back the alien, joined it along with superstar artist, Todd McFarlane--introduced VENOM to the world! 
Things went pretty well. Writing the character was a lot of fun. But since I had planned to stay on Amazing for at least 20 to 30 years, I started thinking about the future--and I got a dangerous idea: since Venom had his first story in Amazing 300, why not have his last story in Amazing 400! Yeah! I could kill Eddie Brock off, then have the costume wander around the Marvel Universe for a year or two, joining with various other characters, before settling in on another host and becoming the "New Venom"' Imagine the nifty stories if the symbiote joined with Doctor Octopus, the Lizard, or J.Jonah Jameson! It sounded like a great idea, but then something unexpected happened---readers absolutely loved Venom! As popularity and sales rose, it became increasingly obvious that Marvel would never let me actually waste comicdom's favorite slavering symbiote. O what to do! 
Then came the answer: if we couldn't have the existing symbiote join with someone else, why not create another one? Since the alien was of an unknown species, it seemed reasonable that it might reproduce asexually, spawning a seed that would become a creature similar to itself. Ah, but who would join with it? Though psychotic, Eddie Brock had a deep, if twisted, sense of justice which drove him to protect innocents. (At least when he wasn't busy trying to turn Spider-Man into gut jam!) I thought that it might be an interesting contrast to the unique dichotomy to give Venom like power to a total sociopath, someone without a hint of redeeming value, a lunatic who'd eat babies for breakfast and ask for seconds. Enter Cletus Kasady. An unrepentant mass murderer, Cletus was Eddie's cell mate in prison, and thus became the eager recipient of Venom's spawn when the symbiote gave birth while breaking Eddie out. 
Okay, we had our new character--what would we name him? No problem I thought: we'll call him CHAOS! After all, that's what Clete wants to bring to the world right? Perfect! Until a rival company came out with a character by the same name a couple of weeks later. The artist Mark Bagley proposed Ravage! Again it was perfect! Until we found out that Marvel had a book in the works called Ravage 2099. Finally the assistant editor Eric Fien suggested casually, not knowing that he was about to make history, "How bout Carnage?" Once more, the name was perfect. And even better, this time no one else was using it! 
Which left us with one problem: What would the character look like? How would we maintain the visual connection to Venom while still making the new guy an individual unto himself? I posed the possibility that he could look like Venom, but that his costume would be multi-colored, constantly reflecting the chaotic nature of the man inside. Not being an artist, I didn't realize that that would put anyone who tried to draw it in a padded cell real fast! That's when Mark Bagley came up with the design we ultimately used, successfully retaining the constant change motif, but with a much more workable and effective, red and black color scheme. Seeing how Mark drew the character gave me ideas on how to use it, and between us we put together one nasty dude. 
And it seems the world likes nasty dudes. The first two stories featuring Carnage sold out, with no advertising, no publicity whatsoever. We assume that's because the readers found him entertaining---not admirable. (He is after all one sick puppy!) But whatever the reason, Cletus Kasady's popularity has steam rolled, rivaling that of his dad, Venom. In fact, he even headlined the biggest mega cross over in Spider-Man history, "Maximum Carnage." What will become of Clete and his living wardrobe in the future? No one knows. But I hope that this page gives you a little better of an explanation." --David Michelinie
:I've removed this from the article. It doesn't seem relevant, it's badly done, and I don't have time to read it all. Can someone explain the relevancy? Tyciol 07:21, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is the introduction to the Spider-Man: Carnage trade paperback, which reprinted his first appearance.  Looks like a word for word transcription, except for the last couple of lines (which originally said, basically, "enjoy the book" -- I italicized the part that I could tell was different).  It doesn't belong here but it's a legit source. - HKMARKS 23:02, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  In a way he got his wish, though.  Edie Brock isn't Venom and the symbiote was passed on to the Scorpion, thus giving "Venom like power to a total sociopath".  207.216.206.244 (talk) 09:19, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Carnage in David Michelinie's Grand Design

message: I seem to remember that solicitations originally called the character "Spawn" or something like that, but obviously conflicts with McFarlane's then debuting Spawn comic made them change his name to "Carnage". Can anyone else back this upo or even remember this? Hueysheridan 00:20, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Spawn title

message: I think we should show Ben Reily as Spider-Carnage, just to put an example of Carnage's transformations. 65.103.84.79
I agree. After all, there is "Cosmic Carnage" on this article.--Shut The Eff Up 15:59, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I added a summary of "Web of Carnage."  I don't have a graphic for it. -HKMARKS 16:47, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Spider-Carnage

message: :Kasady claims he killed his father, who apparently killed the boy's mother when she tried to kill him[.]
She tried to kill whom? Cletus, or his father? JIP | Talk 08:51, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Cletus, I'm pretty sure. Mom: "You evil evil child! I'm gonna kill you!" Dad: "You're crazy, woman, leave that boy alone! *kills mom*"  Li'l Cletus: "But I am evil!  Bwahaha! *kills dad*"  Something like that, anyway. -HKMARKS 13:42, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ambiguous pronoun 

message: I think we should stop debating whether Carnage is a symbiote or a vampiric parasite. It would be best to say that this villain would be a symbiote, for the sake of the old comics, and for our readers. 70.58.211.220
:It's not a symbiote nor a parasite.  A symbiote is a creature who coexists with another creature.  Earth-616 Venom/Carnage are mutualist symbiotes because both organisms benefit.  A parasitic symbiote coexists with a host, but does harm it.  Ultimate Carnage neither coexists nor leaves a host unharmed, at least that we've seen; it just eats it, so it's a predator.  Furthermore, it's not part of the Symbiote (comics) alien species.  Let's not start making up science.  -HKMarks 14:51, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think the dictionary definition of "symbiont" is aplicable when discussing Venom and Carnage in their various incarnations.  Within the Marvel Universes, the symbiotes are usually depicted as a species of alien lifeforms that were initally shown as being straight-up mutualists, but were modified into parasites that drained their hosts of adrenaline, though that plot-line was apparently discarded after Mac Gargan became Venom.  Now, neither the Ultimate versions of Venom and Carnage are members of the Symbiote (comics) alien species as shown in the 616 and similar universes. The Ultimate version of Venom, which was a failed protoplasmic cure for cancer, fits more into the parasite category because it digests its host over time.  Ultimate Carnage, which was created from samples of the Venom suit still in Peter's blood, is different because it initially had no host, and later permentently assumed the shape and memories of Gwen Stacey.  So Ultimate Carnage wasn't evil so much as genetically unstable, and after becoming Gwen Stacey was both female and good. 207.216.206.244 (talk) 09:33, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Ultimate Carnage

message: It is possible that the Carnage in Spider-Man Unlimited is a different carnage, because it looks completely different (Taller, with actual teeth instead of symbiote, red instead of violet).
Also he can merge with Venom. And there is no proof that Carnage's host is Cletus Kasady either.
So, your point is? UnDeRsCoRe 20:44, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Carnage Unlimted 

message: I have yet to read Ultimate Spider-Man #100, but this article states Gwen turns into Carnage? Is this true? If not remove it, If it is, please enlighten me. UnDeRsCoRe 23:02, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ultimate Carnage is Gwen?

message: Does anyone have any images of Peter as Carnage in the video game? If they could post it up here, we would really appreciate it. 70.58.211.220
He looks identical to the one in the comic in every way. If you are desperate for one, you can take a screencap of the character profile at the Ultimate Spider-Man official site. - QuestionMark 20:48, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ultimate Spider-Man game Carnage?

message: I placed a Profile for Ultimate Venom, but it got removed, with the comment "(per agreement at the Comics Project, Ultimate versions don't usually get a separate SHB)" placed as an explanation. Wishing to go along with the project, I have removed the profile of 'Ultimate Carnage'. I hope you will all agree that it was the right thing to do. SaliereTheFish 10:15, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yup. And good catch - I hadn't noticed the Ultimate Carnage SHB. CovenantD 10:28, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Profile

message: This page requires a source to the statement that the cartoon would have included a few things if it had another season. IMDB has that information. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112175/trivia —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.179.101.45 (talk) 01:41, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Missing Reference

message: Is it there a sight possableity [sorry for wrong spelling] that Carnage can return? When Sentry ripped him in half, there was nothing but the suit so that means that he can return. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 360man (talk • contribs) 02:31, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I read somewhere that Carnage will be returning in the Anti-Venom comic or something like that.  Carnage is almost obsolete; he was created to be a completely psycho version of Venom, but now that Venom's a complete psycho, he and Carnage are pretty similar (aside from their powers and goals).  Who knows?  Maybe if Carnage and Mac-Venom meet, they might be friends. 75.157.70.71 (talk) 03:15, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Return? 

message: Mid importance?  Carnage is more important than Man-Thing, Swamp Thing, or Dr. Fate?  --Scottandrewhutchins 14:55, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Importance scale

message: Under the fictional character biography, where "Venom" is listed, the link directs you to the the biotoxin venom.  Not Venom(comics).  Just pointing it out so someone can take care of it. Abalu 05:36, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Check links. 

message: "Unlike Vaginas, Kasady can also separate parts of the symbiote costume from himself and use them as weapons." In the Powers and Abilities section.
: Should be "Unlike Venom, Kasady can also separate parts of the symbiote costume from himself and use them as weapons." 142.26.133.248 (talk) 21:21, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: ...Vaginas?

message: What are carnages weaknesses. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.58.82.14 (talk) 20:46, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Carnage's core powers, not including the one-shot "vampirism" ability, are enhanced strength and durability beyond that of Venom, projection of tentacles (a common ability of symbiotes), the ability to morph his limbs into bladed weapons, and the ability to seperate parts of his symbiote from his body to use as projectile weapons (though they are short-lived).  His weaknesses are the same as other symbiotes: intense sound and extreme heat, although he claims to have developed a resistance to sound.  173.180.89.129 (talk) 20:28, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  weakness 

message: COMPLETELY separate from the argument over Carnage as a symbiote, New Avengers #2 says that Carnage has vampiric powers by touch. This isn't mentioned anywhere else in the mainstream Marvel universe, and it's perfectly possible that this is just an error by Bendis confusing Carnage with Ultimate Carnage (a vampire). I included it anyway, though. Anyone know whether or not someone at Marvel has mentioned this in an interview or something? Universaladdress 07:53, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Vampire powers

message: This page is probably being vandalized horribly right now due to an argument going on at 4chan and the 'malcontent' parties citing this page, after modifying it. please take a few minutes to look this over, if you have a chance, and fix whatever may have been damaged.69.222.18.159 07:59, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Probable Vandalism

message: I'm somewhat familiar with the character, Carnage, and have read the trade paperback collecting his first appearance, but have not read any stories featuring him beyond this, so perhaps someone more knowledgeable on the subject could correct me; but when has Carnage ever been described by a work of source material as being an anarchist?  Lets be clear, being an anarchist is a very specific thing.  It's not belief in a negative social order.  It is not mayhem, bedlem, insanity, or, dare I say it, carnage.  So where does Carnage ever quote anarchist social theory, or provide an anarchic critique of economics?  If source material cannot be produced that specifically cites Carnage as being an anarchist, it is inappropriate to use the term in this context.  As no citation is provided, I'll be removing the character from the Category:Fictional anarchists, and will re-word the summary.  I'll also be providing a citation for my edit, as I do have access to issues of the characters initial appearance and do know what his stated goals in those issues were.  When a citation is provided, the wording can be reverted, and the character can be added not only to the category, but also to the List of fictional anarchists.--Cast 06:50, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The character Carnage (character) has just been added to the list of fictional anarchists, but the footnote acknowledges that source material does not explicitly refer to the character as an anarchist.  Implied anarchic philosophy is not a proper source citation.  The character will be removed from the list until a explicit citation can be provided.--Cast 19:19, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Carnage's goal is the establishment of a world of chaos; without any rules, where anyone can do anything with impunity. That makes him more of a fictional nihilist.  75.157.120.15 (talk) 07:02, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fictional Anarchist? 

message: There is no proof that Carnage will appear in Spider-man 4. There are only rumors and supposed news from unreliable sites such as Freeze Dried Movies. This is not a site for fan rumors.
:Thank you. Its getting really annoying having to revert edits by some doofus going "Rumors say Carnage will appear in Spider-Man 4!" with no concrete evidence to the contrary.--CyberGhostface 15:38, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I just removed another one of these. I searched youtube - all of the videos there are obviously user-made, and none show a live action or CG Carnage, or any new footage. Richard Paez Richardpaez 02:08, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spider-man 4 and Venom film 

message: :Image:Carnageanimted.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Carnageanimted.png

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:MaximumcarnageSNES boxart.jpg

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Spider-carnage-1-.gif

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Spiderman037.jpg

message: I remember buying a comic a few years back where the silver surfer is covered with the carnage symbiote.. thingy?...
Its The Astonishing Spiderman #77, 12th september 2001....
In this issue it shows that the silver surfer once guided galactus to destroy a planet full of these red symbiotes! So does this not show that carnage wasnt created by venom?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Boyler22 (talk • contribs) 12:48, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it doesn't say that at all. Just because more symbiotes exist doesn't necessarily mean that the Carnage symbiote wasn't born from the Venom one.--CyberGhostface (talk) 12:54, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Silver Surfer? 

message: Someone wrote in their own personal speculation, that based on the facial expression of the Carnage symbiote before it fell into the smokestack, that A.) It had realized that Peter's life was worth more than than it's, and B.) that it had willingly sacrificed itself.
First off, that's a pretty big assumption to make and its pretty farfetched as well. But even if it was plausible, it counts as original research as nothing in the comic suggested it. Wikipedia isn't a place to draw our own conclusions, its just to report the facts as we know them.--CyberGhostface (talk) 22:55, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Original research/speculation in Ultimate Carnage's section 

message: In Carnage's history, an alternate-universe storylin is mentioned in the Carnage Cosmic (referred to as Cosmic Carnage) plot from What If? II #108, where Carnage bonds with the Silver Surfer. This is not a part of the official Marvel continuity, I believe, and shouldn't be listed as such. It even mentions in the article that the story doesn't match up with the actual continuity, saying " However, the Surfer and Spider-Man manage to return the symbiote to Kasady, who is subsequently encased by the Silver Surfer in an unbreakable material to spend the rest of his life reflecting on his sins. However, the material is clearly not as 'unbreakable' as the Surfer believes; when next seen, Kasady has somehow escaped from the material, although he is trapped in a cell specifically designed to contain him and stop him transforming into Carnage." I'm not terribly familiar with Wikipedia policy, so I'm not certain how to best fix this. However, I thought I'd bring it to attention. Nearphotison (talk) 16:34, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortunately, this lingering plothole was never officially addressed.--CyberGhostface (talk) 04:11, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Carnage Cosmic 

message: Is he realy Imun? Thas is wrong!! Venom is invisbible vor peters spider-sense, because the black symbiote was bandet with his body. venom ist a dark dopplegänger. Carnage is only a Spawhn with human blood and not a real, natural Symbiote. He can not crawling on the wand and not  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.164.113.95 (talk) 04:09, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: ...what?--CyberGhostface (talk) 04:19, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yeah, I've never heard of Carnage being able to see from all over his symbiote or that Cletus Kasady had cancer. 75.157.107.206 (talk) 01:24, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spider-Sense 

message: Done. It is coming along nicely but there are a lot of references requested and the whole article is flagged as needing more. 
One side suggestion might be reworking the "Character" section into out-of-universe tone and possibly integrating it into the publication history expanding on the character development side of that - there is some interesting material in there and it could be improved with the thinking of the creator about the character direction/philosophy. (Emperor (talk) 19:54, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: B-class assessment

message: Can we at least expand it a little add some pictures of Kassidy from the TV shows or from other storylines. (JoeLoeb (talk) 02:56, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Expand it 

message: "Cletus Kasady has a troubled childhood, killing his grandmother by pushing her down a flight of stairs, and torturing his mother's dog who afterwards tries to kill him and is apparently beaten to the brink of death by his father, who receives no defense from Kasady during his trial." 
As someone unfamiliar with the Carnage story arc, this makes no sense. In addition, it's an unweildy and overlong sentence.
203.49.232.252 (talk) 06:06, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clumsy Sentence 

message: The article lists one of Carnage's powers as being able to see from any part of his body, and sources this to the second issue of Spider-Man Unlimited.  However, the Spider-Man: Unlimited article says that the second issue is not set within the 616 universe and is not canon.  Therefore that should either be changed or removed. 75.157.115.154 (talk) 01:29, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  All-Seeing 

message: See Talk:Venom (comics)#Symbiote_(comics)_merge. Sharp962 (talk) 19:40, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Symbiote (comics) merge 

message: Tanis Nieves should be added to the alter-ego section alongside Cletus Kasady, seeing as she it the symbiote's new host, and she should get her own section seperate from Cletus's tenure as Carnage, seeing ash she's not notable enough yet to get her own page. 142.26.194.190 (talk) 20:20, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tanis Nieves 

message: Cletus Kasady is going to be back as Carnage.  "Cletus Kasady is back in the Carnage symbiote and deadlier than ever! Spider-Man and Iron Man's most brutal battle comes to its fatal conclusion! Carnage has been abused, exploited and tortured by his captors...and he's out for revenge! Bodies will pile up and gore will fly if Spidey and Iron Man can't stop Cletus...and they can't stop him without the help of another mysterious symbiote..." Source: http://marvel.com/comic_books/issue/36269/carnage_2010_5 173.180.92.85 (talk) 03:36, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  He's Back! 

message: In the upcoming Carnage USA, Cletus travels to Doverton, Colorado, forcing SHIELD to take action against him. Source: http://marvel.com/news/story/16101/carnage_usa. 207.216.222.107 (talk) 04:55, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Journey to the West 

message: Erik Larsen was the artist for The Amazing Spider-Man #344, the issue where Cletus Kasady first appeared, and should get credit along with David Michelinie and Mark Bagley. 207.216.212.199 (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 09:31, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Source? 71.188.28.100 (talk) 14:04, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text:  Marvel's own website: http://marvel.com/comics/issue/6754/amazing_spider-man_1963_344 206.87.11.125 (talk) 11:31, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

text: 207.216.212.199 is right. See Carnage: 20 Things Fans Forgot About Marvel's Most Dangerous Symbiote. --Omnipaedista (talk) 22:16, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Erik Larsen co-created Cletus Kasady 

message: I changed the "Minimum Carnage" section to say that Kasady's "brain and mind" are believed to be irrevocably destroyed, because comic book characters rarely truly "die"--and Spider-Man's enemies are notorious for coming back, no matter how implausibly--and things in comic books are rarely what they seem. Personally--and this is just conjecture, so it's not in the article--I think that the symbiote is storing Kasady's thoughts and memories until his brain heals--just like it kept his body alive before when he was supposedly ripped apart in space. LONG STORY SHORT, no article about a comic character (unless the underlying comic-book universe is discontinued) should ever speak with "finality", because in comic books, there's no such thing. RobertGustafson (talk) 03:31, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Keep assessments about characters' status tenative 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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I have just modified one external link on Carnage (character). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110811014829/http://www.comicsalliance.com/2010/07/25/spider-man-big-time to http://www.comicsalliance.com/2010/07/25/spider-man-big-time/
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Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 20:11, 31 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I added a table for the new solo series, but feel free to expand it to include older seriesRachelskit (talk) 01:19, 15 August 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Collected Editions

message: Could someone please mention that Carnage is stronger than Spider-Man and Venom combined? Please? Thank-you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.208.161.217 (talk • contribs) 
:What's your source for this claim? DonIago (talk) 17:11, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Could someone mention, stronger than Spider-Man and Venom?