Talk:The Ed Sullivan Show

message: The lack of citations on this page is pitiful.  Plenty of outlandish claims about rumours of elvis wearing a "device" of some sort, with no citation mentioned to back it up.  Is this reference really needed?  And if so, shouldn't it be sourced? --66.150.98.32 01:55, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Citations

message: "Jim Morrison, the band's lead singer, agreed but changed his mind after a quick band meeting and sang the orignal line instead with notice to the show's producers."
Shouldn't this be WITHOUT notice, or does this mean Morrison looked at the show's producers while singing the line? NjtoTX 12:23, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The Doors

message: Kudos to JillandJack. It captures the absolute essence of Ed Sullivan's television persona. Dpbsmith (talk) 17:10, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: That is one GREAT picture

message: Check The Beatles' miscellanea to see if there is anything in it you can use. A lot of 'miscellanea' needs to be trimmed (as linked articles are improved) so please feel free to use anything before certain sections get zapped into the ether... ThE bEaTLeS aka andreasegde 16:30, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: The Beatles' miscellanea

message: Can someone tell me when it was a ritual for families to gather to watch network broadcasts of The Wizard of Oz? I've never heard that before. -- Mwalcoff 02:12, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wizard of Oz? 

message: :Image:SullivanPresleyHoundDogOct1956.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
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BetacommandBot 04:57, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:SullivanPresleyHoundDogOct1956.jpg

message: There is a long list of performers who were banned from the show.  Anyone up to the challenge of listing who and why?
From the Bo_Diddley article, Carreer section"
On November 20, 1955, he was the first African-American to appear on The Ed Sullivan Show, only to infuriate him. ("I did two songs and he got mad," Bo Diddley later recalled. "Ed Sullivan said that I was one of the first niggers to ever double-cross him. Said that I wouldn't last six months.") Bo Diddley was asked to sing Tennessee Ernie Ford's hit "Sixteen Tons". But when he appeared on stage, he sang his #1 R&B hit "Bo Diddley." He was banned from further appearances. The Doors and comedian Jackie Mason would later join Bo Diddley on the list of performers banned from The Ed Sullivan Show.
Sorry for the uncut quote, but I felt it was relevant.
--Yue.san 09:19, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It may be relevant, but you need to cite the source. Just taking it from another Wikipedia article isn't sufficient, especially if that article doesn't cite a source, either. I can find nothing to support the claim that Diddley was "banned" so I have added a citation needed tag. 68.146.41.232 (talk) 15:01, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ban List? 

message: :This is from the Discussion page, not in the article. 
Not by a long shot. Count Basie was on the 8/29/1948 show.  Steve Pastor (talk) 18:05, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ever hear of Pearl Bailey?  September 25, 1955 Steve Pastor (talk) 18:11, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: first African American on the Sullivan Show?

message: I came here trying to find out who performed with the Beatles on the show. I know Soupy Sales was on one of them. Is anyone planning on summarizing individual Sullivan episodes like people have done for other TV shows?? (Obviously, it's a gigantic job to do them all but maybe just the famous ones?)--Calan (talk) 17:49, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Who performed with the Beatles?

message: I've seen plenty of 1950's kinescopes featuring broadway singers performing hits from their musicals. Since the claim that it was "rare" was both uncited and auguably biased, I removed the line, peeps! Retro Agnostic (talk) 07:57, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed uncited info

message: 1) Concerning Elvis Presley's three Sullivan appearances, it has been claimed in the "Elvis Presley" section that only on the third show Presley was shown from the waist up only, but that he was shown in full during the previous appearances, as screenshots from a modern DVD prove. However, some published sources (books, newspaper articles) say otherwise. Query: is a modern DVD really a reliable source? Elvis’s performance was telecast live and kinescoped, as videotapes and DVDs were not yet invented in the 50s. The problem is that what you now see on DVD is not necessarily identical with the performance people saw on TV at that time. You can be sure that there were different cameras shooting the star and his band (some showing Elvis from the waist up, some in full, others showing the members of his band or the host), and someone from Sullivan’s team decided what went on air and what not. However, for producing a current DVD they have certainly used the best material available from the archived shots of all the different cameras, also material which was definitely not on air in 1956. The only conclusion is that what the modern DVD is showing now cannot be the only source for a decision as to whether or not Elvis was to be seen in 1956 in full or from the waist up only. This may also explain why newspaper reports or eyewitness accounts of the time and experts using the old sources seem to contradict what is now to be seen on DVD. 
2) The same "Elvis Presley" section includes the following paragraphs:
*Charles Laughton guest-hosted in Sullivan's place. Laughton appears in front of plaques with gold records and states, "These gold records, four of them... are a tribute to the fact that four of his recordings have sold, each sold, more than a million copies. And this, by the way, is the first time in record making history that a singer has hit such a mark in such a short time. ... And now, away to Hollywood to meet Elvis Presley."
*Once on camera, Elvis cleared his throat and said, “Thank you, Mr Laughton, ladies and gentlemen. Wow”, and wiped his brow. “This is probably the greatest honor I’ve ever had in my life. Ah. There’s not much I can say except, it really makes you feel good. We want to thank you from the bottom of our heart. And now..." "Don't Be Cruel," which was, after a short introduction by Elvis, followed by "Love Me Tender." 
*When the camera returns to Laughton, he states, “Well, well, well well well. Ladies and gentlemen, Elvis Presley. And Mr. Presley, if you are watching this in Hollywood, and I may address myself to you. It has been many a year since any young performer has captured such a wide, and, as we heard tonight, devoted audience.”<ref name="Elvis DVD">
*Elvis's second set in the show consisted of "Ready Teddy" and a short on air comment to Sullivan, "Ah, Mr Sullivan. We know that somewhere out there you are looking in, and, ah, all the boys and myself, and everybody out here, are looking forward to seeing you back on television." Next, Elvis declares, "Friends, as a great philosopher once said, ‘You ain’t nothin’ but a Hound Dog...,' " as he launches into a short (1:07) version of the song.
Query: As these paragraphs include no more than insignificant small talk between Presley and Laughton during the show, are they encyclopedic enough for a Wikipedia article or should they be rewritten? Any suggestions are welcome. Onefortyone (talk) 23:56, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Kinescopes were made, according to everthing I've read, of the broadcast itself, not multiple camera shots. Broadcasts went out live from a live performance. I have never seen anywhere that anything other than the broadcast itself was kinescoped. To do this would mean that mutilple cameras would have to be set up in front of multiple monitors. It appears that the kinescopes were made for the purpose of rebroadcast to the West Coast.  Keep in mind that these early TV shows were in the days before syndication, and no one knew Elvis would be so big one day. On the other hand, if you do have links to, or images of newspaper clippings from newspapers that followed the first two Elvis appearances, that clearly state that he was shown only from the waist up, and clearly show the date, that would make me doubt that we are seeing the shows as they were broadcast. These articles would have to be dated, for instance the next day. Not after the infamous "waist up" show. Note that we are shown the lead in to, and the actual adds for Mercury cars, (I think) etc in the Sullivan Show dvds. This visual evidence seems to contradict much of the material written much later about Sullivan and Elvis. Steve Pastor (talk) 00:27, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

text: Regarding the dialogue, to me, it contradicts some of what people who have written books about this stuff have written. I mean, Elvis wishes Sullivan well when he misses a show because he's in the hospital? Where is the chip on his shoulder because Sullivan didn't originally want him on the show? I think we learn about Elvis as he was in the early stage of his career. "Mister Laughlin", he says. "Mister Sullivan", he says. Etc. Course that's just me wanting to show people Elvis as he was, and was broadcast at the time, and wanting to let him speak for himself. As opposed to prsenting things as interpreted by people who may not have even seen this material as we can see it now (I really do have to wonder sometimes if they HAVE seen it). Steve Pastor (talk) 00:27, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Come on, Steve, these are only the usual gestures of politeness that stars and their hosts receive in such shows. Do you really think that Elvis would have critized or ignored Sullivan during the show? For publicity reasons he put a good face upon it, as the Colonel may have recommended. In most cases even two stars that hate each other are bloody friendly towards each other when they both appear in the same show. That's show business. By the way, when Elvis was made a fool by Steve Allen, did he react during the show? No, he was angry about his treatment only after the show.  Onefortyone (talk) 02:00, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Some queries

message: In the article it states that  maybe Sullivan felt it was time to retire. In reality he was furious that his show was dumped without warning. He felt it should have been allowed to go on another two years to make 25 - That was his goal. Health or retirement were not considered. Read up on it  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.3.10.130 (talk) 06:46, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  SUllIVAN DID NOT WISH TO RETIRE 

message: User DocKino has more than once removed a well-sourced addition to the article, accusing me of a subjective, idiosyncratic view per WP:UNDUEWEIGHT. To my mind, this user is wrong, as the statement by Rodriguez adds, for reasons of balance, an aspect to the article not mentioned before and is therefore fully in line with Wikipedia policies. The article says that 
:Sullivan praised Elvis at the end of the show, saying "This is a real decent, fine boy. We've never had a pleasanter experience on our show with a big name than we've had with you.... You're thoroughly all right."Content Elvis Episodes Of 'The Ed Sullivan Show' DVD Box 
Therefore, there are good reasons to include this additional remark in the article,
:However, according to Robert Rodriguez, "Elvis’s discomfort at the compliment is evident; he looked as though he’d just received a Judas kiss before being publicly neutered and declared to be safe as milk."Robert Rodriguez, The 1950s' Most Wanted: The Top 10 Book of Rock & Roll Rebels, Cold War Crises, and All-American Oddities (2006), p.84,
for, some time ago, another user, Jaye9, cited Elvis himself saying, 
:So they arranged to put me on television. At that particular time there was a lot of controversy - you didn't see people moving out in public. They were gettin it on in the back rooms, but you didn't see it out in public too much. So there was a lot of controversy - and I went on the Ed Sullivan Show. They photographed me from the waist up. And Sullivan standing over there saying "Sumbitch". I said, "Thank you, Ed, thank you." I didn't know what he was calling me, at the time.
This shows that Rodriguez was certainly right with his opinion, and for reasons of balance, his statement should be included in the article. Interestingly, some months ago, while removing the same commentary from the Elvis Presley article, DocKino said that Rodriguez’ opinion about a fleeting facial expression is “a clever, intriguing, plausible observation.” See . So why should this “clever, intriguing, plausible observation” not be included in the article on the Ed Sullivan Show, especially in view of the fact that it demonstrates, for reasons of balance, that Sullivan’s words weren’t honest. If there is another source which shows that Sullivan’s words were indeed sincere, we may also add this opinion to the article. Onefortyone (talk) 20:47, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Clever, intriguing, plausible observations by third-party observers belong in belletristic writing, but not in an encyclopedia when they (a) effectively involve mind-reading and (b) are unsupported by other observers. On the other hand, the description of the event quoted above by one of the central participants is absolutely worthy of inclusion. Can we identify the source for the Presley quote? If we can, it should go in. DocKino (talk) 21:34, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Secondary sources including plausible observations can certainly be used for a Wikipedia article. According to this webpage by reputed Elvis biographer Greil Marcus, the source you think should go in is Elvis Presley, "Elvis Talks About His Career," on "Live in Las Vegas" (RCA) and "Hound Dog" on "Roots Revolution" (Tomato) or "Good Rockin' Tonight: The Evolution of Elvis Presley -- The Complete Louisiana Hayride Archives" (Music Mill). However, I did some further research. TV Guide, Volume 45 (1997) calls Sullivan’s words "faint praise but significant, given the context." According to Tim Parrish, Walking Blues: Making Americans from Emerson to Elvis (2001), p.214, Colonel Parker "had threatened to remove Elvis from the show if Sullivan did not apologize for telling the press that Elvis’s ‘gyrations’ were immoral." I have added these sources to the article. They certainly support Rodriguez’ plausible observation. Onefortyone (talk) 18:40, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

text: Here is another plausible "well sourced" observation. When "he sang Little Richard’s 'Reddy Teddy' and began to move and dance, the camera pulled in, so that the television audience saw him from the waist up only." Except that Elvis DID move energetically during this song and was shown in full while doing so. There WAS a still from the dvd in the article to highlight the absurdity of this comment, until someone removed. That still was from the dvd of the actual Sullivan show broadcast.Steve Pastor (talk) 16:37, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Take a look at the picture of Presley while he sang Ready Teddy. Unthreatening, according to Mr Gaur. BS I say. The picture speaks for itself. And I have several stills of other rather demonic facial expressions. So why to we need Gaur's opinion when we can see for ourselves? Like I say, we should stick to what actually happened rather than someone's interpretation of what happened. Steve Pastor (talk) 16:37, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: What you now see on modern DVDs must not necessarily be the same material that actually went on air in 1956/57. Elvis himself said that "there was a lot of controversy - and I went on the Ed Sullivan Show. They photographed me from the waist up." This is a clear statement by Elvis himself, and it is fully in line with the other written accounts. Onefortyone (talk) 13:22, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Plausible observation by Rodriguez

message: Can anyone corraborate the Rolling Stones Nazi Uniform story with a internet verifiable source? Or at least have a better source ? I know the Rolling Stones history pretty well and I've never heard that factoid.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.134.249.78 (talk) 05:21, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Rolling Stones Nazi Uniform Story Issue

message: The sections involving Buddy Holly and indeed most of the "controversies" section are badly in need of sourcing. 68.146.64.9 (talk) 08:05, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources needed for several sections

message: Is it really necessary to separate African-American artists into their own category?  They could be included in the Non-African-American list while still mentioning the cultural significance of any performance.  Anyway, I believe the term is hyphenated. Camo Shoe Club (talk) 00:29, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: "African American?"

message: The DVD release of the Rolling Stones episodes says the "Sclrap-Flyapp" routine by the Muppets was performed on January 15, 1967, not Nov. 24, 1968 as listed. But there is another Muppets performance listed on January 16, 1967. So unless Sullivan aired two episodes on succeeding days that week for some reason, there's an error somewhere. I personally would side with the dates given on the official DVD release. 70.72.223.215 (talk) 15:58, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Muppet Show dates need correction 

message: Why did the show end? Will someone please add it to the History section? In Talk, someone mentions retirement, but the word retire is not in the article. Misty MH (talk) 12:25, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why did the show end? Add to History. 

message: The article says the show was once produced in Australia. The 1964 press claims this will happen in March 1965, but in 1965 Sullivan says he was not able to come. Does anyone have more?
MartinSFSA (talk) 06:44, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Australia 

message: The list of Prime Time Specials for the series only mentions a 1975 memorial to Sullivan and a number of more recent retrospectives; it omits the post-cancellation specials, most notably the 25th anniversary one. 70.73.90.119 (talk) 19:13, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Prime Time Specials list incomplete

message: I corrected a factual error (with video source) with regards to Bo Diddley. Diddley did not sing "Diddley Daddy" but rather his self-named "Bo Diddley" single. The cited news article is wrong. 136.159.160.121 (talk) 16:34, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Factual error corrected