Talk:Jim Talent

message: "He identifies with the conservative wing of the Republican party..."
Of course he does. So does nearly each and every one of the 48 Republicans in the Senate. BobCubTAC (talk) 15:07, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kind of an obvious statement here 

message: I have deleted references to individual votes because it is generally not an accurate representation of a senator's/candidate's views and these references are often meant to mislead. I think quotes and co-sponsored legislation are the best evidence of a person's overall view on the subject. I don't think wikipedia should sound like a campaign ad for either candidate (individual votes are almost always referenced in political ads and are almost always meant to mislead whether the ad is by a Repub, Dem, or anyone else), but should capture the essence of what the candidate has championed or is known for. I think as it reads now, the reader has no doubt that Talent leans conservative on most issues. I welcome discussion on this topic. BZuckercorn 08:37AM 09/26/06
The problem with this is that on some issues, the only way to gauge a candidates position is by 'individual votes'. For example, Jim Talent has voted against allowing Medicare to negotiate for a discount on drugs. Yet, he has no quotes on this issue on his website, or seemingly anywhere else. Votes are what matter, and we cannot avoid all discussion of a topic simply because a candidate chooses not to talk about it. So, I strongly disagree.
Given further thought, I think BZuckercorn has a point. If a candidate makes no statements on an issue, but votes on it, perhaps we should limit information on that issue to specifically mention voting behavior, rather than suggesting this gives an overall view. In this way, we still give the important information about the Senator's voting behavior, but avoid more subjective information about what philosophy this behavior is a result of.
Obviously, I would never argue that Talent did not vote against one particular amendment or another if the facts support it. My argument is what the purpose of wikipedia is. I doubt that the bio for John Adams highlights obscure votes during his congressional days - the focus is his career and what he's known for (i.e. what legislation did he offer? - how was his tenure significant?, etc.). I don't think individual votes have any place in wikipedia for any politician unless it's newsworthy or significant in some way. I doubt you would suggest putting every single vote a politician ever cast in a list on wikipedia. It's supportable by the congressional record, isn't it? It's ridiculous because it would totally water down the things he/she did that were actually newsworthy or significant. I think it's wrong to cherry pick votes just because it paints someone one way or another. As I mentioned above, putting a vote under the heading "political views" or whatever implies that how he/she voted that one time represents their entire stance on the issue. BZuckercorn, 14:03 09/26/06
Clearly, it would be unrealistic to put every vote on the page. But it is not fair to compare minor procedural votes to this: a vote on a major amendment that was well publicized in mass media at the time. This issue is of major interest to many people, and this vote had a major impact. In the absence of any other information, votes are what we must use to determine a politician's views. My fundamental concern is this: **If we only put down views on which the candidate publishes quotes, does that not mean that we are allowing the candidate to control the debate**? Regardless of if he has chosen to talk about, Senator Talent made a vote on an important amendment, and I can see no excuse for deleting that.
I'm glad you agree with me that the article should be focused on newsworthy events. Then it should be pretty easy to find an article in the Kansas City Star or St. Louis Times-Dispatch as a better reference than a blogger who used the congressional voting record as his only reference. I agree that significance is not defined by the person himself, but when you're talking about views, who better to define it than the person. I understand that significant newsworthy events are not controlled by the candidate. How about all the news stories (from major outlets) this week about George Allen? - I don't think he is controlling that debate very well. BZuckercorn 14:29 EST 09/26/06
The congressional record is an absolutely trustworthy reference, so I fail to see your point. It was a major vote on a major issue that people care about. Simply because Talent chooses not to talk about it does not mean the issue does not exist.
I think I'm agreeing with you on signficance but you have to prove it - I can't just take your word for it. Your reference fails to indicate why this vote is significant to Talent's career (other than the particular bloggers opinion) nor does it demonstrate that it's newsworthy or that anyone even cared about it. My point is that if it was such a big deal, then you need to demonstrate that it actually was a big deal that news outlets found it important enough to trumpet. I was glad to see you use an extensive interview with Talent as one of your references - I think that makes sense - someone thought an issue/vote was important enough to ask him about it and he responded. BZuckercorn 15:27 09/26/06
:User:BZuckercorn wrote: I have deleted references to individual votes because it is generally not an accurate representation of a senator's/candidate's views and these references are often meant to mislead. I think quotes and co-sponsored legislation are the best evidence of a person's overall view on the subject. I think he's right -- but note that he said generally. I think in this particular instance however, this vote is a fair representation of where he stands on the issue. This was not a procedural vote, or a vote that had other alternative measures -- it was a straight "negotiate in bulk or not" vote, and, thus, it's fair to mention it in the article. -- Sholom 19:31, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with you in general. But I'm not convinced that applies in this case. In this case, there was plenty of ink in mass media devoted to this issue. But why should there be lots of ink as to his involvement in it? Or, more precisely, why should the amount of ink as to his involvement in it be necessary for inclusion here? Let me give other examples: suppose there was a Constitutional Amendment offered in Congress to ban abortion? (Or, for that matter, consider the Flag Desecration Amendment, or a Ban Gay Marriage Amendment, etc etc.). Suppose a Senator doesn't make speeches about it, and doesn't make a big deal about it, but votes one way or another on it. If the issue is significant, then isn't the vote also significant? -- Sholom 12:45, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  References to Individual Votes 

message: Is there any reason that this article does not include a reference to Talent's stint as a lobbyist with Arent Fox? Is that considered irrelevant? Here is the source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.66.159.215 (talk • contribs) 
:I certainly think this is valid for inclusion. If you can find any additional sources that discuss Talent's lobbying that would be helpful. Thanks. Propol 12:59, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I signed up for an account and added the section. Here is one more link that I did not include because it seemed too biased.Personman2 19:56, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lobbying 

message: Paulgaham seems to not be understanding my point. I have no problem with the content of the bit about the lobbyist "team" donating money in support of Talent's re-election. It is a pure editing point. Where does it better fit? The point is it belongs in the re-election section, not in the section discussing his political career. I keep moving it because no one has made any compelling arguement for these donations being in some way related to Talent's career as a Lobbyist. The referenced article does not discuss any connection between that particular $1 million and Talent's controversial lobbying stint with Arent Fox. The referenced article merely talks about how these lobbyists are supporting a number of GOP candidates using these teams. It is relevant info to his re-election campaign not to his "career" as a lobbyist. If you continue to move it please do so in good faith and tell my why info on re-election donations do not belong in the re-election heading. I also don't understand why Paulgaham keeps moving it so that it is separate from the follow-on quote. I'm just trying to structure this in the way that makes the most sense. Paulgaham referred me to a wiki article about redundancy because I complained the information was in 2 different places in the same article. That particular wiki guidance relates to repetitive information included within more than one ARTICLE, not repetitive information within the same article. Also, apologies to Paulgaham for saying that the washpost article didn't reference Talent. I missed it. 162.138.176.51 17:18, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Money from Lobbyists 

message: http://www.networkworld.com/community/?q=node/9046 - CrazyRussian talk/email 03:23, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Interesting blogpost 

message: Does Talent have Jewish heratige? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.237.240.230 (talk) 15:14, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jewish Heritage 

message: I am changing this information to say that he was considered, but will not be in the general election. umrguy42 15:07, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  2008 Gubernatorial Bid 

message: I'm considering deleting the information about Dick Cheney and Jack Abramoff from the 2006 Campaign section. The Cheney fundraiser doesn't seem notable, and the suggestion that it contributed significantly to Talent's fundraising advantage over McCaskill is unsubstantiated. Plus, the cited web reference has since gone blank. Articles on the numerous other politicians who received contributions from Abramoff--such as Hillary Clinton, and Kit Bond--to pick an example from each party, don't mention him. Overall, it seems like cherry-picking to highlight contributions from the most unpopular people possible. Thoughts on this?0nullbinary0 (talk) 08:06, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fundraising Info 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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replies: text: Archived URLs 1, 14, and 15 did not work/were not useful. The rest did work, though. --1990'sguy (talk) 16:27, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

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replies: text: None of these were useful or worked. --1990'sguy (talk) 16:28, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

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replies: text: Archive was not useful at the least. --1990'sguy (talk) 16:30, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

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replies: text: Second one worked, but the rest did not. --1990'sguy (talk) 16:06, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: There are a lot of links that don't work on this page, could someone go through and fix them?
MrMeAndMrMeContributions 13:16, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead Links