Talk:Nibelungenlied

message: May be it would be interesting to add something about the treatment of (more or less) the same story in the Edda and a comparism of the two sources. Would that be the right place for such a comparison? I'd enjoy to write it if it's welcome (I'm new here)
BTW in most german sources I know of the hero is called Siegfried, not Sigurd. I'll check out what's in the medieval German original.
:Mostly Sivrit or Sifrit, apparently. Matthew Woodcraft
*A comparison with the Edda sounds promising ;) -- Someone else 10:15, 15 Nov 2003 (UTC)
thread_title:  old comments 

message: Gtrmp, I would hardly say that the Nibelungenlied was Tolkien's chief inspiration for LotR, which was originally motivated by linguistic concerns: Tolkien wanted to created a world for his conlangs to exist in. He used the Nibelungenlied mainly as a source of names, mostly for dwarves in The Hobbit, but also for Gandalf.
However, Tolkien did draw a lot on the low, middle, and high Norse/German myths. The ideas of honor, trust, love, power and courtly manner are present in all his writings. At the very least, Tolkien was inspired in some fashion or another...and you're correct, in some cases he took names and some words for his languages as well from the Nibelungenlied.
:The only Germanic word that appears in Tolkien's languages nearly unaltered is "Earendil", from "earendel". ("Eala Earendel engla beorhtast/ofer middangeard monnum sended.") The language of Rohan as it appeared in the book was indeed Germanic (Mercian). However, it was not intended to represent the actual tongue of the Rohirrim, but it stands in the same relation to English as Rohirric is supposed to Westron.  So no, he took no words for his language from the Nibelungenlied.
:As far as names go, the names of the dwarves in "The Hobbit" and LotR (plus Gandalf) were found not in the Nibelungenlied, but in the Poetic Edda, in the poem "Völuspá" and not, so far as I know, in the "Niflung" cycle.  Although "The Hobbit" was not originally connected to the larger mythology (represented by The Silmarillion, not LotR) it became so, and the dwarf names were rationalized in the same way as using Mercian for Rohirric.
:Incidentally, it was The Silmarillion that was inspired by Tolkien's languages.  LotR was inspired by his publisher, who wanted a sequel to "The Hobbit".  It connected up with the older mythology almost by accident, but ended up as the closing narrative of his mythological age.
:It's true that there's a connection in a very broad sense between LotR and the Nibelungenlied -- the latter is a myth cycle from northeastern Eurpoe and LotR was written to occupy the same genre -- but there's no direct connection between them whatsoever. In a sneering reply to a comparison between LotR and the "Ring" cycle, Tolkien said, "Both rings are round, there the resemblence ends." TCC (talk) (contribs) 01:47, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tolkien? 

message: Creating Niebelungenlied and Neibelungenlied as redirect pages since you can get reasonable numbers of hits for these alt. (2nd incorrect included) from Google Sjc 05:57, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: That's not an "alternative spelling" that is a misspelling.  If someone is going to actually type the name in, there is a good chance that that person already knows German, which mean, "i", "ie" and "ei" do not cause such confusions for that person.  --JoergenF 19:20, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think one can assume that the person already knows German - lots of English-speaking operagoers won't know much, and "ie"/"ei" have more complicated rules in English, and people are always being confused. It's amazing how many kinds of orthographical errors a half-million articles can have - redirects from common misspellings are a useful technique to catch them. Stan 00:38, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Links for alt. spellings 

message: The synopsis of the story is rather wrong, and too brief.  Shall we expand?  --JoergenF 19:01, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Aren't some details missing too? First, I suppose it shouldn't say he killed "a dragon", but he killed "THE dragon" Fafnir. I'll add that, correct me if it's wrong, but I don't remember there were other dragons Siegfried killed :) Moreover, shouldn't here also be mentioned the Ring of the Nibelungs? I'm not sure if there is another version without the Ring, so I won't touch that for now. And yes, I think the synopsis should be expanded too. --Arny 11:05, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: But the dragon isn't named in the NL. --Pfold 11:54, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you please take the one line synopsis out of the intro of the article.  Most intros only describe the author, protagonist, history, and cultural origin of a written work.  However, this intro gives away the story... (69.228.199.174 (talk) 01:45, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  How can you "give away" a story that has been an established part of European culture for over 1000 years? --Pfold (talk) 09:59, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

text:  Speaking of which, im writing here the reason why I want to erase the line about unesco. what is the connection? Postapocalypticnovella (talk) 21:18, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: You're kidding, right? UNESCO thinks the MSS are among the 200 most important documents in world history and you don't think that's a signficant fact about the poem?! --21:50, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Synopsis

message: Maybe we should put a pronunciation of the Nibelungenlied? This might help greatly especially to people who do not speak native German or people who are not familiar with it. -jayjay-203.177.177.124 10:49, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pronunciation 

message: Parallel is especially appropriate when the two things compared are so like each other that their lack of 
divergence suggests two parallel lines; the term is often used in negative expressions. Sometimes, 
especially when actual comparison is implied, the word suggests that the two things follow a similar 
course, order or line of developement.
Counterpart often suggests a complementary and sometimes an obverse relationship.  More commonly, 
however, the word implies a duplication, especially in another sphere, or age, or language.
Analogue usually implies a more remote likeness that the preceding words and suggests comparison with 
something familiar and tangible for the sake of clarifying an explanation or enforcing an argument.  Like 
counterpart, it often involves reference to something in another sphere, or order, or genus.
Correlate retains its primary implication of correspondence, but does not retain that of complementary 
relationship.  A thing which is a correlate of another is what corresponds to it from anotherpoint of 
view or in a different order of viewing.
Webster's New Dictionary of Synonyms, 1973. --Jbergquist 22:18, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Parallel Synonyms 

message: Shouldn't it be at least mentioned in the article that Etzel might not be Attila, king of the Huns, but the Roman general Flavius Aëtius (see his article)? Or, more exactly, a melange of both historical persons? Although being a Roman general, Flavius Aëtius had many Huns fighting for him and might have appeared to the Burgundians as a Hunnish king. Due to the names sounding quite similar, later storytellers would easily merged Attila and Aëtius into one person.
:The whole time and place section needs a complete rewrite for that and other reasons. --Pfold 22:18, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Flavius Aëtius]] 

message: FYI I don't know how to incorporate this into the article, but in Thor (Marvel Comics) a Marvel Comics wrote a short series based loosely on this and the Volsunga in between issues #292-300. MPA 22:57, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Who - apart from some irrelevant idiots - gives a single shit on marvel comics??? The Nibelungenlied is ART of the highest grade: marvel comics and the rest from it's origin are simply trash. --84.141.19.9 (talk) 20:11, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Marvel Comics

message: Substituted at 01:11, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The article states "The oldest version seems to be the one preserved in manuscript "B"." That is disputed. 79.106.203.68 (talk) 16:22, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you supply a reliable source?—Ermenrich (talk) 17:01, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Too many to list. This is basic stuff. The "C" text is the oldest. The question of which content may be closer to the original cannot be proven. In fact, for the past 100 years, most scholars have held that all versions are equal. Why are you always on here if you do not know much about the content? Nice username. Do you have an alt-account called "Hagen"? 79.106.203.95 (talk) 10:04, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: You don't need to list *every* scholar - just a couple of the most respected and most recent. But your ad hominem attack on Ermenrich does not in fact encourage anyone to take your coimment as serious and well-informed. --Pfold (talk) 11:05, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oldest? 

message: The caption under the Karlsruhe MSS "C" states:
"First page from Manuscript C (c. 1230)"
The article itself even explains this test was written between 1190-1204. The entire article is riddle with errors! Who approved this to be published in the world's current most famous encyclopaedia? 79.106.203.34 (talk) 09:22, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Yet another display of ignorance. The MS is from 1230-ish but, like all medieval MSS, contains works written sometimes decades, even centuries earlier. You can hardly imagine that you've spotted an error, when you must surely be aware you know nothing about the subject.--Pfold (talk) 12:46, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yet another error 

message: I showed the sources. The song of "Seyfrids wedding" was discovered in 2022 and published in the same year. Please, before there anybody change again the texts, inform you. On the German Wikipedia the article can be found under "Siegfrieds Hochzeit".
Mario Bauch: Die Grimmener Lieder vom Hürnen Seyfried und von der Hochzeit des Hürnen Seyfrieds, Daon - Verlag, Grimmen 2022 ISBN 978-3-00-073498-4  — Preceding unsigned comment added by MichelKat (talk • contribs) 13:26, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: This section belongs at the bottom of the talk page. I can find zero literature discussing this find. The discoverer (who released the edited text within a year of finding it) is not an academic, but an SPD politician who collects old books. The "editor" is also the owner of the publishing house, meaning that it is self-published. You would expect something like this to get an announcement at Zeitschrift für deutsches Altertum but there is nothing. The only literature cited on German WP is a website. We need to wait for this to be confirmed by actual academics before we start putting it on WP.—Ermenrich (talk) 13:48, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Seyfrids wedding 

message: on the English page, in section manuscript sources, there is rendered the text "user:cheezdeez on top" in large letters in the middle of a text block. I cannot find this or edit it out. 185.124.120.132 (talk) 08:37, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Can't find it. Probably an error on your browser.--Ermenrich (talk) 12:39, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  vandalism