Talk:Louie Giglio

message: I'd like to add some information about his childhood, if anyone has any available. 
--Emplynx 01:29, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The style appears to lack objectivity and at times reads like what will our hero do next? This may be an example "leading to confusing days given the couple (Louie and Shelley) had left their efforts in Texas behind and now faced an uncertain future" implying that Louie and Shelley will triumph against the odds because of unquestioned exemplary faith.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.170.84.181 (talk) 10:05, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: I've moved this comment from the main article to here:
While most of this information is correct. The timeline of Louie's father's death and his move back to Atlanta are a little off. Louie's father died before he was able to complete the "passing off" of the Baylor ministry. It was on the flight home to Atlanta for his father's funeral that Louie had the vision of tens of thousands of young people on their faces in worship and praise to the Lord... it was through this vision the Passion Movement was birthed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.26.220.207 (talk • contribs) 
ItsZippy (talk • contributions) 17:44, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moved from article 

message: In the first section there is this:
:Giglio's heart for the significance of the "university moment" was set
What does this mean? It isn't English. The citation refers to a passage in which G's heart is described as "on fire." That's a metaphor that's understandable. This isn't. It should be changed, or deleted.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eponymous-Archon (talk • contribs) 04:15, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  What does "G" mean? It isn't English, exactly. (However, I agree that the "university movement" sentence is strange.)  204.65.0.20 (talk) 19:33, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comment 

message: I have restored the detailed information that accurately describes the content of the sermon by Giglio which caused controversy. This is NPOV and is an objective description of what was said.  Giglio stated, "you might make this the note of Leviticus 20:13 and the book of Jude, we won’t look at those passages but there is some support and encouragement there to this topic." As one source says, he "references a biblical passage often interpreted to require gay people be executed". Leviticus 20:13 says: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." PeaceLoveHarmony (talk) 15:04, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Exactly - "references a biblical passage often interpreted.." - yet in the article we have " referenced biblical scriptures that say..." That doesn't sound like restoring NPOV. This bit needs to be removed. St
Anselm (talk) 19:35, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

text: Agreed. There is much worth noting from the sermon in question, including his belief that homosexuality is a choice and his notion that Christianity provide a root out of "the homosexual lifestyle". But Giglio took the time to quote and discuss several Bible passages. It's hardly fair to make much of a passage he cited without quoting or discussing. That's underlining, not reporting the substance of the sermon. Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 20:55, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

text: I added some specific dates as well. The quick sequence of events tells a different story, instead of "In January" and "then withdrew". Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 03:56, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Can someone please explain the meaning of "they shall surely be put to death"? It sounds to me like there is only one possible interpretation (i.e. that "they shall surely be put to death"), which is semantically identical to "require execution." If this represents some kind of bias on my part or is incorrect in some way, please help me understand. Otherwise, let's use common sense and make this article better by restoring this information. He did refer to the scripture and say it was worth noting. The media thought it was notable enough to include it in their articles.  PeaceLoveHarmony (talk) 17:10, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

text: The media? Think Progress only quoted what he said, citing a Bible reference without quoting it or discussing it, while you have decided to track down that reference and tell us how others generally read it. No one is disputing your reading of the Bible. But if it wasn't a substantive part of what Giglio said in the sermon, it seems unfair to highlight it as you want to. And then you deleted the entire paragraph. How is that helpful to the reader? Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 19:35, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: If I deleted anything it was not intentional. I think I only added content back in. Here is the quote from Agence France Presse (AFP): "In the sermon he also referenced the biblical passage Leviticus 20:13, which is often interpreted as requiring that gays be put to death, and he urged Christians to 'firmly respond to the aggressive agenda" of the gay rights movement.' Here is the url: http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jUz8gIlworLOUeTWwOFQHMtODYew?docId=CNG.cbd609407c038569bc16cc9c4f7cef09.151 It's a clear statement from a reliable non-opinion media source, and it appeared in numerous media accounts. (So not OR, and not POV). It is not being "highlighted", but is being listed with the other aspects of the sermon that caused offense, just as the news articles did. PeaceLoveHarmony (talk) 19:54, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: PeaceLoveHarmony, please do not add the Leviticus reference back in until you have obtained consensus here. You have had two editors disagree with you so far. I think it's better not to say who the opposition came from - it wasn't just the "LGBT community", but saying it was "from supporters of equal rights" is definitely POV. I also reverted the addition of "anti-gay", since it's such a loaded term. Obviously, the next sentence is going to explain the tone and content of the sermon. StAnselm (talk) 20:58, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: StAnselm, This is about complying with Wikipedia standards, not gaining consensus from a majority of editors who happen to be working on this article. The consensus of editors at any given time does not trump the standards. In this case, the only people removing the accurate, objective, well-sourced information about Leviticus has been you and a vandal who keeps deleting the whole paragraph. If you can present a credible argument that the wire service AFP is not a reliable neutral source, good luck with that. The New York Times and the AFP both characterized the sermon as "anti-gay". http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/10/us/politics/louie-giglio-inaugural-pastor-criticized-for-antigay-sermon.html (Actually the New York Times seems to be using a new word, "antigay" without the hyphen. Interesting.) Removing an accepted mainstream term for opposition to homosexuality because you think it is "loaded" is definitely POV on your part.   PeaceLoveHarmony (talk) 16:20, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you should read Wikipedia:Consensus. The thing is, what we are discussing is precisely how Wikipedia standards are to be implemented in this article. The wikilink for "anti-gay" goes to a disambiguation page - and it covers a range of attitudes and movements, from homophobia to LGBT rights opposition. StAnselm (talk) 20:38, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

text: Yes, I agree - ThinkProgress definitely needs a mention. StAnselm (talk) 20:38, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Obama Inauguration withdrawal due to anti-homosexuality comments 

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