Talk:Lufthansa Flight 181

message: It is now a matter of public record that the mission was SAS developed, SAS ran and SAS led with support by GSG9. You can easily find the public records which have been released at the National Archives here: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C11478984 SAS members received the Distinguished Service Medal for their bravery and skill and you don't get that for 'observing'. So please, let's do the right thing and help stop people laughing at Wikipedia for inaccuracy by updating the article.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.106.152.116 (talk) 07:59, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  why do facts relating to the SAS, pertaining to the events keep being deleted? 

message: The Article lists D-ABCE as the regrestration of the aircraft in question.  In November of 2003, I was an aircraft loader in Louisville, KY working for an air charter company that worked for Ford.  We had a Ameristar charter 737, N737TW, that had a load of parts for us.  When I arrived in the cabin to begin offloading, I noticed the signage was in German and inquired with the flight crew why this was so.  They advised me that this was the aircraft that had been hijacked in 1977.  On an external inspection of the aircraft during a break in offloading, I noted many patch holes which would be consistent with the damage received by the aircraft when stormed by GSG-9.
A subsequent search of Airliners.net resulted in the determination that D-ABGE was the aircraft in the incident.  If ABGE is the Landshut from the 1977 incident, a search of Airliners.net resulted in the following history of the aircraft:
Purchased from Boeing and registered as D-ABGE, which was a QC aircraft.  Flown as such untill the incident in 1977.    After the incident was repaired and placed back into service. Served with Lufthansa untill sold to German Cargo in the early 1990's.  Reverted back to Lufthansa when German Cargo was purchaced by Lufthansa Cargo.  Aircraft sold to Air Atlanta Icelandic in the late 1990's and registered as TB-AFX.  After this, sold to Ameristar as N737TW.
After a further search of airliners.net, the name "Landshut" appears on not only D-ABCE (Airlines.net photo ID: 0374190 and 0495440), but on D-ABHM (airliners.net photo ID 0528336) as well.
Additional References:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/library/policy/dod/part6_ct_analysis_course.htm
Spacestevie 21:01, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aircraft Regrestration 

message: I am removing the :Category:Palestinian terrorist incidents in Europe category as the article does not mention Palestine or Palestinians at all.  --Abnn 04:21, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: it mentions the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP).  Misheu 05:43, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, you are right, it was pretty hidden as it was using an acronym and it wasn't mentioned in the lead (which I will fix), I was using FireFox's build in text search for "Pal", which usually catches everything.  I'll post another message regarding the category as a whole, because I think it is problematic IMHO and I would like to rename it or substitute it.  --Abnn 00:03, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Abnn did not restore the category even being informed of the error - so I edited it in back again. That's some really honest behaviour right there, Abnn. 109.66.40.80 (talk) 15:17, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  inappropriate category 

message: This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 03:58, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  WikiProject class rating

message: The numbers mentioned in the article don't add up.
# Summary box says there were 84 passengers + 5 crew = 89
# First paragraph of Initial events mentions 91 passengers and crew.  This is backed up by the external link http://britains-smallwars.com/SAS/Mogadishu.html
# Operation Feurzauber section says Of the four terrorists, Zohair Youssif Akache, Riza Abbasi, and Nadia Duaibes were killed while Souhaila Andrawes survived. A GSG 9 member and a flight attendant were injured. 86 + 1 flight attendant + 4 terrorists = 91
# That section goes on to say All the remaining 86 hostages were rescued.  The hostages would be crew + passengers - 4 terrorists.  Remaining 86 + 4 terrorists + 1 flight attendant + 1 Schumann mentioned earlier in article is 92.  Maybe the flight attendant is meant to be in the "remaining", but it doesn't read like that.
# Summary box says there were 80 survivors
Additionally, I think the summary box is confusing since the different numbers refer to different groups.  In particular Injuries = 2 includes a soldier who isn't part of the rest of the counts.  I think a line should be added to show how many soldiers were involved in the rescue; I haven't done this myself since the external link source isn't clear (30 GSG9 + unknown number of SAS; and were they all actually involved in the operation on the plane?)
Lessthanideal (talk) 15:41, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Numbers don't add up 

message: This article in Le Monde claims that Joschka Fischer understood the importance of renouncing violence as a means to further political goals when he learned that the Mogadishu commando had begun sorting out Jewish passengers.
The article does not mention that. Are there other sources? David.Monniaux (talk) 18:05, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Fischer is misunderstood by Le Monde, he commented the sorting that took place at the hijacking to Entebbe. SaRa (talk) 00:19, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: nevertheless the terrorists on the Landshut searched for jews. They just couldnt find any as German passports do not show religion. They threatened to shoot a woman which had a pen from the company Montblanc. The logo looks similar to the star of David. The terrorists were talked out of it by the captain.--85.180.22.154 (talk) 21:46, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The "palestinian" terrorists searched for Jews, indeed. They intended to kill the Jews first. One woman was singled out by the leading hijacker in Cyprus - she possessed a pen of the the famous brand "Montblanc", which got a company logo that resembles a Star of David. Therefore he thought that she was a Jew, and threatened to kill her. The authorities of Cyprus, where the plane had landed at that time, gave in to the hijackers' damands following this threat, and so the plane was able to continue its journey to Somalia and the life of the "Jewish woman" with the Montblanc-pen was spared. I will look for a source later and include this in the article. -- Alexey Topol (talk) 18:18, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

text: As far as I know there was also a man who has been "accused" of being a Jew by the terrorists because he had a watch from Junghans. The Junghans logo shows a capital "J" in a yellow star, one of the terrorists destroyed the watch. I heared this in a talk show, I will try to find some information on this. --Ragoro (talk) 06:33, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Allegation  of sorting out of Jewish passengers 

message: Changing date formats to suit a particular regional preference is not typo fixing, have reverted, please discuss before editing.Daffodillman (talk) 19:14, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alteration to date formats 

message: This has gone back and forth a couple of times between 'Magic Fire' and 'Fire Magic'. The later is the proper and correct version. The root of the word "Feuerzauber" is "Zauber", i.e. magic. The prefix "Feuer" describes what kind of magic this is, namely 'fire'. Therefore, 'Fire Magic' is the correct way to translate "Feuerzauber" and it ought not be translated any other way. This is from a professional translator, Alandeus (talk) 07:48, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I would also stick to Fire Magic - as far as I'm concerned, the meaning of Magic Fire in German would be Zauberfeuer or magisches Feuer, but not Feuerzauber. Küchenkraut (talk) 10:29, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Translation of "Feuerzauber" 

message: The box below says that a civilian was killed in the operation "Feuerzauber". According to everything I know, there was no civilian victim, except one mildly wounded by a hand grenade. Maybe this alludes to the killed captain of the aircraft? But he wasn't killed in the operation, but had been killed by Mahmud way before. So, I think this is wrong and should be fixed. Otherwise, it should be added in brackets who this killed civilian was, because the information that most people have - including myself - is that there were three killed terrorists, one captured, one GSG9 man with a shot through his throat, and a woman injured by a hand grenade. Thanks.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.83.237.70 (talk) 13:13, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Right - Number of civilians wounded corrected in table changed to match text. Alandeus (talk) 15:02, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Civilian killed?? 

message: The article about the hijacking of LH 181 is in dire need of a cleanup (to me, this looks like a complete rewrite is necessary). The main issues I can identify are:
#The two sections "The Lufthansa crew" and "Key German rescue personnel" need to go because they are a means of over-dramatization. Such a "list of characters" is something frequently found in drama texts, but not in an encyclopedia.
#I'd suggest the article to have it's key content organized in three sections: Background, Hijacking, Aftermath/Consequences (as I have been done at Lufthansa Flight 615). Currently, there is no background part at all, the hijacking part relies on comparatively few sources, and the aftermath section is completely unreferenced. 
#That comparatively few sources used is a general problem. I'm currently working on compiling a bibliography of a much larger number of sources, including contemporary articles.
It may take some time (several months, I'd guess) to finish that work. Of course, you are all invited to participate. Any kind of input is welcome. Best regards--FoxyOrange (talk) 09:10, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Go ahead, you have my support - especially your first point made me wonder when I read the article. --Ulkomaalainen (talk) 21:31, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  I'm planning to re-write this article 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Lufthansa Flight 181. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20090709192920/http://www.upi.com:80/Audio/Year_in_Review/Sadat-Visits-Israel/12361881614363-1/ to http://www.upi.com/Audio/Year_in_Review/Sadat-Visits-Israel/12361881614363-1/#title
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Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 16:52, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Lufthansa Flight 181. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20061108102845/http://www.defence-net.com:80/magazin/191.html to http://www.defence-net.com/magazin/191.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I have found numerous articles (and Wikipedia Articles in other languages) that call the 2nd woman in the hijacking group Nadia Duaibes(full name nadia shehadah yousuf duaibes). Sometimes they say that she had an alias (Shanaz Gholoun), and that remains fairly consistent, but the names Hind Alemah and Nadia Duaibes shift from article to article. For example, the German one has Hind Alemah and the Norwegian one has Nadia Duaibes.
I have found a der Spiegel article from 1992 that claims new documents reveal more details of the Hijacker's initial movements and backgrounds, and it uses the name Nadia Duaibes - I am inclined to believe this is the original name, and somewhere along the way there has been a mixup, perhaps with the another Alias. I have done a google search for Hind Alameh, and one pops up in 1977, but it is from a website that appears to have been regularly updated and as such there's no certainty on that matter.
If anyone has any idea as to what might clarify this, feel free to reply Sreek213 (talk) 23:06, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Uncertainty as to true name for 'Hind Alameh'.