Talk:French Navy

message: The official Navy site provides information and photos free for Internet use. All ships or classes of ships should be documented. David.Monniaux 19:22, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: There is also http://www.netmarine.net wh0 have generously given their authorisation to use some of their photographs under the GFDL (see here). Rama 23:30, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

text: WARNING: The arrangement described above was effective until the 20th of October 2008, when authorisation to upload photographs was revocked by Netmarine. This does not put the licence of images upload before the 20th of October 2008 into question, but makes the images uploaded after this date copyright violations. Rama (talk) 15:25, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Images

message: The French Navy does not use prefixes for its ships (like the Royal Navy does, "HMS Kent" for instance). However, since it makes it easier to understand the nationality of ships, I suggest we  put the prefix FS ("French Ship"), which is already widely used informally internationally.
:Personally, I'd like something less clunky than French ship Quelquechose, but if there  isn't any French practice we can point to for justification...
:—wwoods 08:23, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prefix 

message: There are already naming conventions for ships. See Wikipedia:Naming conventions (ships). If you think they are wrong, or you think French ships need to be named in a different way, please raise the issue and discuss on Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (ships). Gdr 11:30, 2005 Mar 17 (UTC)
: I am not a big fan of the NATO prefix "FS" which isn't used in France (especially for ships which pre-date NATO), but on the other hand there are small issues with the policy of Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (ships):
:* Some navies have specific categories of ships; for instance, the French navy uses the word "frigate" for destroyer-size ships (whose hull number has a "D"). This might make the name of articles difficult to predict (for instance, someone looking for the destroyer Forbin might not find it in "List of naval French ships" because it is categorised as a frigate)
:* with namings like "French frigate Surcouf" and "French submarine Surcouf", it is impossible to tell whether a ship is in commission or not anymore, which I think would plead in favour of puting a date (possibly the date of commissioning) in the title. 
: I will post these questions on Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (ships) as well (I though that "Wikiproject:Ship" was the right place to do so).Rama 12:59, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Naming conventions 

message: Can some sone who has some level fluency in French beyond student say what this type of vessel is?  It looks like it means "Corvette", but I don't really know. --Mtnerd 05:08, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it is smaller than a corvette, yet bigger than a patrol ship. Typical role is green water anti-submarine warfare. Originally, it was small ships carrying orders to fleets (in the 1780s). I'll draft a specific page if it is too confusing for other users. Rama 05:32, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Good.  Would Offshore Patrol Vessel be a better term?  It's a term that needs explanation.--Mtnerd 16:00, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  I created an aviso article, feel free to edit it the way you see fit. Since you might not be born with the concept, your way to explain it is probably better than mine, for whom "aviso" is a straightforward "ecological niche" of warships. Rama 18:10, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The French "Aviso" could really be classed as either a corvette or patrol vessel. The D'Estienne d'Orves class is about the same size as both types of vessel (see River class patrol vessel and Visby class corvette), but its armament is more similar to that of a corvette. SoLando 15:09, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well, that's the point, this niche is between corvette and patrol vessel, one good reason to use the original taxinomy in my opinion. Rama 15:21, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

text: Out of sheer curiosity, what is "packet" here ? Rama 15:24, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Avisos???? 

message: Isn't the French Navy now larger (in all factors that determine a navy's size) than the Royal Navy?
: I also read that the FN was the larger one (on the BBC's website). I tried to count the number of vessels both navys have in active service. The RN has 101 vessels in the surface and submarine fleet and 76 in the auxiliary services. The French navy consists of 84 vessels in the surface and submarine fleet and 58 in the auxiliary services. To sum up: RN 177 ships, FN 142. I'm not sure if the numbers for the french auxiliary forces are correct, because there a no complete lists on the net. <BR> It's hard to say which navy is more capable, because the profiles are very different. While the RN has got many heavy surface combatants (Destroyers, Frigates), the FN mainly consists of lighter vessels (although some are called frigates, they correspond with corvettes). There are no main differences in the amphibious capabilities. What can be said is, that the RN fulfills much more deployments around the globe than the FN. <BR> All in all I think the differences are not that big, but the RN is a little bit ahead of the FN, in numbers and capabilities. It will be interesting to compare both navies in about 10 years, when all the new warships (Horizon, Type 45, CVF, Astute, etc.) will be in service. Albion05 28 June 2005 22:35 (UTC)
:: As I just recognised in the royal navy article, SoLando quoted http://www.european-defence.co.uk which says the the RN has about 195 and the FN about 128 vessels. Maybe I counted wrong. Albion05 28 June 2005 22:43 (UTC)
:::I thought my ears were burning on 28 June :-D That 'site was the only source I could find with ship figures; however, i'm not sure how recent their figures are :-(. It would be better if someone could get an answer from the Royal Navy and Marine Nationale. Take care SoLando 14:50, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The Type 45 are not commissioned yet. When they are commissioned, they will be comparable to the Chevalier Paul and Forbin, of the Horizon class frigate. Telling which one is "best" is anyone's guess. Rama 21:56, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  French-British Navy 

message: Same question as above: in French the article ("le"/"la") is not part of the word. I don't know why so many people tend to have the impression that it is and put "le" and "la" everywhere (perhaps some way the French is taught to foreigners ?); there is no more reason for stating "La Marine Nationale" than there would be to call the article "The French Navy" (and for the record, French is my mother tongue). Rama 16:31, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Marine Nationale" vs "la Marine Nationale" 

message: It seems odd that this factoid is mentioned.  Presumably this is mentioned to give a handle to the reader as to the capability of the French Navy vis-a-vis other navies.  I cannot see any other valid reason for stating personnel in such a manner (i.e. listing this fact up front in the article, as opposed to a mere listing of the fact as to personnel establishment later on in the article with lesser relevance).
So the assumption is that personnel is a key indicator as to the capability of the French Navy - that is, it is assumed that the additions of the collective of editors who have been to these pages before me have thought that personnel is a key indicator.   I disagree....navies are surely to be measured as to capability in other terms. There is no accurate measure of capability - but other factors such as a balance of forces (see blue water navy), the total gross tonnage (which is listed in this article) and the firepower available are valid indicators. 
It has often been said that navies and air forces man equipment whilst armies equip men.  Therefore to list the number of available infantrymen in an army is an indicator of effectiveness, when it comes to navies, the personnel establishment number tells me, as a reader, nothing.
Other factors come into play - e.g. how old is the equipment of this navy that must be manned - first generation aircraft carriers, for example, were grossly overmanned compared to modern designs, due to advanced in automation technologies.  Some countries include a large number of ancillary staff on their establishment whilst other navies would not - for example, cooks at Royal Australian Navy bases are civilian contractors, whilst (I imagine) that French Navy shore establishment cooks are service personnel.  The most glaring "boost" to the French Navy numbers that additionally gives doubt to the relevance of this measure of capability is the fact that the fire brigade of Marseilles are included on the French Navy establishment.   
I vote for the removal of this misleading factoid of the French Navy - or else it needs quantifying.  
The bottom line is that to quote personnel figures leads to images of over-manning, or a massaging of the figures to give a grandoise overall look of the size of the French Navy - albeit acheived at the expense of including bottle-washers, blanket stackers and (what would elsewhere in the world be) civilian fire-fighting personnel.
I rest my case. Anon.
: I think there's something in what Anon says.  Is there a need to state "we're the largest navy" with facts that are open to wide interpretations ?  A better citation for the French navy in the articles opening paragraph would be to make no claim as to the relative size of their navy - after all, does it matter to anyone other than those with somewhat childish nationalistic editing instincts ? Anon has my vote for removal of this factoid (as he puts it).--Phillip Fung 04:13, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Removal agreed. My vote goes to remove this irrelevant note of one-upmanship.--Ordew 02:44, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

text: If people wish to list a fact as to the numbers of people in the French Navy, then that is a valid point, and can be listed, but it is not a key fact relating to the navy that warrants mention in the introductory paragraph.  Currently the implication is that this fact is of significance via a vis the relative strengths and weaknesses of the navy, but this does not stand up to scrutiny.  The 'oldness' of the debate does not negate any of it's content.--Ordew 15:12, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I've moved the 'figures' reference further down the page. I agree that it's a fact to be cited, but I also agree that the inference of "it's a key measurement" (inferred due to the facts place almost at the top of the article) should be toned down.  Navies effectiveness are not measured in terms of the numbers of people they employ, in whatever capacity, but by what they can actually do. I hope my amendment resolves the issue. Comments welcome on this page, which I am watching. --Phillip Fung 04:18, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

text: You are wrong take a look at Military of France under Manpower, conscription ended in 2001. Carl Logan 10:17, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  French Navy is largest in terms of personnel 

message: This is a useful article, but it lacks information on naval bases. Could someone add some please? George955 18:18, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Certainly. Rama 09:19, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Missing information on naval bases

message: Isn't the NHS the largest employer in europe? Having 1.33 million employees - that makes it the 5th largest in the world, I think. This article has the required information on the number of staff it has, and I'm 99.99% sure that the French Navy has fewer employees. 86.163.117.233 (talk) 16:04, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Largest naval employer. Of course the French National Education has far more employees than the French Navy. Rama (talk) 22:19, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Largest employer in europe?? 

message: don't know how to put a picture of the mentioned item. I'll describe it, the best I can.
is rounded made out of coper; weights about 2 pounds; 3 inches diameter; 1/4 of un inch wide. In the back says: Escorteur d'Escadra and DUPETIT THOUARS. On front has a a coat of arms and behind crossed by two "roman" hatches? and inside the coat of arms above left and below right two iron coats. Also below the left iron coat there is two swords (sarracene,[arab} kind) crossed each other.and top of the right iron coat, there is same two arab swords crossing each other. On top and bottom of the arab swords there is like a bunch of straws. I read on this famous DUPETIT. ship and I don't Konw how this item ended in San Diego California. I found it in a swapmeet(this is a place, where you can find antiques, furniture,...is an open market)!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vascodeama (talk • contribs) 22:02, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It is probably a tampion. These items are sold aboard; it might have been purchased by an American during an open day of the ship as she was on a visit to San Diego, or given by a sailor to somebody, for instance. Rama (talk) 08:51, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Found an seal or emblem Escorteur d' Escadre DUPETIT-THOUARS in San Diego California, USA 

message: Why is there no section on the French Navy's role in WW1? They took part in the Dardanelles campaign at least, and probably others.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by FOARP (talk • contribs) 20:01, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  World War 1 

message: I have restored the "In Popular Culture" section that had been deleted as 'trivia'. The myth that "A'leau, C'est l'heure" (which, in English, sounds like "Hello Sailor") is "the motto of the French Navy" is so well established in the UK that I believe it warrants a paragraph in the article, if only to disabuse the notion that this IS the genuine motto. Anyone googling the punning phrase is therefore likely to encounter this Wikipedia article first, and thus discover that the notion is a fallacy. I have added a few references indicating the widespread UK knowledge of the joke.Butcherscross (talk) 01:34, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Restored "In Popular Culture" section 

message: Source article is unreferenced but could be a good point of expansion for the bare Uniforms section. Source article is likely not notable enough for a standalone article, definitely not without WP:TNT first. Deadbeef 10:53, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I've essentially re-translated striped jersey this from :fr:Marinière (vêtement) (looks like it was just a machine translation). It now has all the links, and the references, that the French one has. I'm not sure it's now small enough to merge in, although most of it is about fashion, and I'm not convinced about the title. I've created redirects at  and , and would prefer to move it to the former (I should have done so before I created it!) Si Trew (talk) 00:12, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

text: I've moved the article over to Marinière (and changed its use of the term "striped jersey" to "Marinière"). Si Trew (talk) 12:10, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

text: Correct. The clothing has little to do with the Navy: only one of the four images shown at this point uses the jersey, and those are only uniforms of the lower ranks. The section, in truth, is woefully inadequate, as it omits the uniforms of noncommissioned officers, officers, aircrew, and images of rank and other insignia.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.199.242.109 (talk) 10:01, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed merge with [[Striped jersey]] 

message: I heard that the song Les gars de la Marine is an unofficial anthem for the Navy. --Error (talk) 01:13, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Les gars de la Marine 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The use of « and » smells of showmanship, ie. someone wants to show to the world that he/she/it knows how the French language works. In an English text, it's entirely inappropriate.217.248.51.59 (talk) 05:46, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: So fix it. - BilCat (talk) 05:52, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  « » 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The current History section is too long for this article: the topic is well covered at History of the French Navy. A few paragraphs should suffice here. I'm seeking consensus before trimming. SteveStrummer (talk) 01:33, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Absent any objections, I'll go ahead with trimming this section down to an outline. SteveStrummer (talk) 02:52, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I finished this change tonight, reducing the section to almost a third of its previous size. I did not take the task lightly, nor without regret for changing so much writing by so many editors. But History of the French Navy contains all this information, and even some of the exact wording. The new version is not perfect, I know, but it's concise and fleshed out with many more relevant bluelinks than before. I hope it meets general approval. SteveStrummer (talk) 02:50, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Duplication tag 

message: This parameter is impossible to fill adequately for the whole of the French navy's history. It's utterly random that the list begins with the 19th century Sino-French War, but to include every engagement since 1624 would be ridiculous. Moreover, the parameter is for "battles" while every listed entry is a "war". This article continues to suffer from a high level of bloat, and this lengthy parameter is not helping. Compare to United States Navy or Royal Navy which don't employ such impractical fields. SteveStrummer (talk) 03:45, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: For armed services the wikiwide consensus appears to be to input conflicts and other major actions that might not amount to war (and the public listing is engagement). All of the US Armed Forces service branches (to include the U.S. Navy's page), along with many other pages such as the Royal Marines, all service branches of the French Armed Forces, service arms of the People's Liberation Army, and service arms of the Russian Armed Forces, all utilize the engagements field in this capacity. The best solution would appear to be adding conflicts that the French Navy participated in, and removing isolated battles that are a larger part of a war already listed. For the sake of readability I would recommend adding a "see also" list for ease of reading. To surmise, I see nothing wrong with the list other than its lack of conflicts, which can certainly be added to. Garuda28 (talk) 04:40, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I stand corrected. The list should be collapsed in the infobox, however, and not be in See also, which would be much too long. I do question the chronological starting point, since this article is about the modern French Navy, post-Vichy. SteveStrummer (talk) 05:22, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I misused my terminology - I meant to say a collapsed box rather than see also (words are annoying :P). It seems that the French Navy (and armed forces in general) trance themselves back to the 1600s, and the history section reflects this. Perhaps it would be appropriate to include all the conflicts? I'm not sure if there's a french equivalent, but the US Armed Forces keeps very detailed record about conflict credit in the form of battle streamers awarded to each of the services. Garuda28 (talk) 05:31, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm glad we agree on the collapsed box. And you are correct about including all the conflicts, as that will be in harmony with the History section. After thinking hard about this, I see my own subconscious POV at work, and now I'd say that the article topic is "the French navy as it exists in the present day", and not just the "post-Vichy navy". SteveStrummer (talk) 03:46, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox 'battles' parameter