Talk:Super Saiyan/Archive 3

message: OK, I archived it. The discussions actively going on had nothing to do with the article. Don't bring them up again. Nemu 17:07, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It was not deleted it was moved into Archive 2. If you feel so strongly about the subject. Just (create a new one but make sure it has something to do with the article ok. Also stop getting upset, you are taking this WAY TOO personal. Trust me its not good, I know. So calm down and just restart the subject if you feel the need to.
Heat P 09:06, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Read the fourth bullet in the first box and the full box right below it. Nemu 11:07, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Archived

message: Should we make one? It has been made fun of in various parodies. So far I can recall it being made fun of on Codename: Kids Next Door(Some episode, forget the deatails), Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo(Both in a special chapter and in the series in general), Neko Majin Z(obvious) and on a Saturday Night Live skit. Can anyone else remember some others? Should we also mention the story or whatever the Super Saiyan was based of off somewhere(opening or something)? Nemu 22:07, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: In popular culture section

message: A note on the recent edit/revert. While Im inclined to agree that others mastered the form inthe next saga, nothing was really said on it in the manga or anime. In fact the form itself isnt really a new form. It was a certain level of mastery over the base SSJ form (as opposed to 2nd/3rd grade), and was only labeled in the Daizenshuu. So, given the lack of specific information, adding other characters would count as original research. Onikage725
I agree with what your saying, i think the FPSSJ section should be merged with the SSJ section; simply talking about how goku and gohan planned to adjust to living normaly in the form to gain an advantage while fighting(similar to the use of weighted clothing) -Evirus 69.14.33.214 07:04, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: FPSSJ

message: i think gogetas final form should be some ware between ssj4 and ssj5. I dont belive he was ssj4
(shadowsok@aol.com)
: That's like saying Vegetto wasn't a SSj because he's stronger than Goku's SSj3. Until he powers up to his SSj2 state, he's still a SSj, reguardless of power. SSj4 Gogeta would be the same. He is the fusion of two SSj4s. When Gotenks was made by Goten and Trunks fusing at SSj, he wasn't a SSj2. - Tyro_Kith 7:25, 11 December 2006 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.31.6.135 (talk) 00:26, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Why do you want to put this so called SSJ5 in this? It has not been officially published or officially drawn into the Dragonball community by Mr. Toriyama or Toei Studios. That is a fan based transformation. Tyro_Kith is right. Just because someone's base power is so strong that when they transform they are well above the power levels of normal Saiayns's SSJ, SSJ2, SSJ3 or 4's power doesn't mean they are already at the next level. SSJ4 Gogeta, SSJ Vegetto as well as SSJ3 Gotenks are what they are despite the huge power they show compared to normal Saiyans's SSJ powers and levels.SSD4 07:24, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There's nothing official that states that Gogeta ever reached Super Saiyan 5 or even a mid point between that an 4, so don't change it. --Majinvegeta 18:33, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: ssj4.5-ssj5

message: What's this "Dragon Ball/Z/GT Transformation Guide"? Is it an official published book, by Akira Toriyama? If there are names given in such a publication that are considered to be valid and reliable, then including them should be no problem. But as is? I don't think there's any reason to make the titles any longer than they already are, and it messes with links on a number of articles to change them. If you absolutely must include these alternate names, perhaps mentioning them as alternate names in the text UNDER the title might be a better choice.
Daishokaioshin 23:53, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey I went and look in online stores and online book markets and there is only one thing book wise that keeps coming up and thats the booklet guide to the Dragonball GT Transformations's game For Gameboy so unless it's in Japan there seems to be no such book or Guide in online stores. Only internet sites.  SSD4 03:36, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Huh?

message: Hey guys and gals I was looking over the article and nothice something I feel needs to be fixed. The names of Goku and the other Son's names. In some of the Super Saiyan level subjects it says Son Goku or Son Gohan and in others is just says Goku or Gohan. To fix this I wanted to see what you folks think and feel about it. If you agree we need to fix it, do we go with the Son family name or just keep it the given name. For those that don't understand what I mean. Should we use Son Goku and Son Gohan or just Goku and Gohan?
Heat P 20:09, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fix Names 

message: Ok I going to fix it back to False Super Saiyan. It been agreed on so leave it been. Do not start this up again. 
Heat P 08:19, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Giji again 

message: Goku references Super Saiyan 2 as Ascended at one point in the anime, as does Gohan I believe. If someone could look up the ep and get a quote, that would be fantastic =P
Creation Destruction 19:36, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ascended form 

message: Um, since we have Future Trunks, what about Future Gohan? SUIT, give an insight on this baby. ( Seong0980 11:25, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I guess no one really thinks of Gohan and Future Gohan as separate people, but yes, they (when speaking about super Saiyans) are separate people. Also the reason could be that no one really considers him "future Gohan" because to most people, he's just "Gohan". --Majinvegeta 04:02, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Super Saiyan - entry missing

message: Cell IS technically a Super Saiyan, is he not? Granted he doesn't have hair and his eyes don't change, but he has Saiyan blood (more then Goku Jr even, believe it or not) and his aura is a Super Saiyan aura. Should he be put on the list? --Majinvegeta 00:41, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: In actuality it is not false information. But it is more of an Original Research statement. He is not an android. He is an organic cybernetic being. He is call an android because of how the US dubbed him. In Japan it is translated they  are artifical humans. He is a clone of Saiyan, Namek, Iceian (a word I use of the Cold family) and Human dna. So yes he can be called a Saiyan as well as the other races. He uses mostly his Saiyan parts of his powers to fight as seen. But I do agree myself that we can't put this into the article without a real referance. Sorry MJ but like I said if others feel like he should then we need to address it at WP:DBZ. Heat P 22:18, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Cell a Super Saiyan?

message: In the article it says: "The legend states that every one thousand years in the Dragon Ball universe (three thousand years in the English dubbed version) a Super Saiyan is born, his true power awakened through rage. This Saiyan, called a Super Saiyan, would be recognized as the strongest being in the Universe, wielding what was considered limitless power.". In the English dub episode 53 Vegeta talks about the legend of the Super Saiyan saying: "After 3 millenniums its finally happened, a new super saiyan has emerged.". He says nothing about every 3000 years this happens, only that it finally has happened again, in another part he says: After 3000 years another super saiyan has emerged. But the last super saiyan could only maintain his status in the tranformed state."(transformed state meaning Ozaru). The last Super Saiyan's power was not the result of rage, rather the result of transformation which multiplies the Saiyans power level 10 fold. He did say however: "One day his rage erupted and he was destroyed by his own power." but not that he obtained his Super Saiyan status through rage. This description of a Super Saiyan only fits Broly as having unlimited power and all the other descriptions of the legendary Super Saiyan. Lucasthalefty 17:29, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Every 3000 years 

message: Give me some good points here and don't start any useless personal attack battles, shouldn't Golden Oozarus be part of this article? To keep it brief I'm pretty sure that a Golden Oozaru is the same thing as a Super Saiyan Oozaru, a Super Saiyan Oozaru was mentioned in episode 53 talking about the last Super Saiyan who arose 3000 years ago. Even if the idea was taken farther in GT, the Golden Oozaru was originally mentioned in DBZ and should be listed as having existed. Also there's always a lot of debate about cannon and GT but I see that Super Saiyan 4 is in the article so why not have the Golden Oozaru too, especially since it was talked about in DBZ. Lucasthalefty 17:54, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A do agree with Heat, there's the fact that Golden Oozaru is on the Oozaru article, there's not point in having it here as well. And I also agree that in the manga, there was no "golden Oozaru" as a visual aid for Vegeta's explanation. The Golden Oozaru exists solely in the Anime, but then again, so does Super Saiyan 4. And the difference is that Golden Oozaru is not considered a Super Saiyan level because the major requirement for transformation is in the environment, it doesn't come from conscious participation from the Saiyan itself --Majinvegeta 04:16, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Golden Oozaru 

message: The list of super saiyans lists onio, from NMZ as a super saiyan. Since Z went SSJ(somehow) in the manga, should he be listed as one too? On top of that, should he be considered SSJ2, since the manga identified SSJ2 with the lightning in the aura ANYTIME somone went SSJ2, and Z has that when he powers up.
Apparently you are mistaking Super Neko Majin as a Super Saiyan. That is a big false. Neko Majin is the name of the race of Cat Genies that Z belongs to as the Neko Majin article states. In one of your edits, you say that Akira Toriyama states that Z says he is a Super Neko Majin. That is right, Z is a Neko Majin not a Saiyan and he has a Super Saiyan-like transformation called, get this Super Neko Majin. Neko Majin is not Z's name it is his race like Goku and Vegeta are Saiyans. So no Z is not a Super Saiyan he is a Super Neko Majin. He is not Super Saiyan Z. He is Super Neko Majin Z. Heat P 04:06, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This really shouldn't be an issue. Neko Majin isn't a Saiyan. Therefore he cannot become a Super Saiyan. The end. Onikage725 14:14, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neko Majin Z and super saiyans. 

message: I noticed the Edit war practically stopped, all you frequent Dragon Ball editors are to thank for that (and a select few IP people). That's a good thing, perhaps we can keep it that way. Good job guys. --Majinvegeta 19:30, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Edit war

message: I wanted to discuss this first because in the first Broly movie, it stated that Planet Vegeta was destroyed the day Goku was sent to Earth, however in the manga and anime, it was destroyed three years before Raditz's arrival on Earth (Which would make goku in his 20s). I think we should use the anime/manga date, but I just wanted to discuss first. --Majinvegeta 02:41, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't recall ever seeing the 3 yrs thing. In the Bardock special it was destroyed shortly after Goku was sent to Earth (Bardock passes baby Goku on his way to Vegeta, shortly before he confronts Freeza). Can you cite a quote from the manga that says otherwise? Onikage725 14:06, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I unfortunately misplaced my copy of Dragon Ball vol 17 (DBZ vol 1)when I moved, but I know for a fact that Raditz states it in the third or fourth chapter. He also states it in the original Japanese Audio of the anime. If anybody has vol 17 (DBZ vol 1) of the Manga, please cite the quote. I will see if I am able to locate my copy of vol 17. --Majinvegeta 01:34, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have the episode in question. I assume you're talking about when he's explaining things at the Kame house? Onikage725 14:39, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes I am, I believe he says either "three--" (or) "four years ago". He also states it in the Manga, even though I don't have my copy, I recall it quite clearly. I'm pretty sure he says four, which would then result in Freeza destroying the planet only a little over five years before He fought Super Saiyan Goku, not thirty years before he fought Goku, as the movie depicts. I have also seen "Bardock, Father of Goku" and yes, I know that it depicts the planet being destroyed the day Goku left for Earth as a baby. But I don't believe that's what the anime or the Manga said. --Majinvegeta 23:33, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: amount of years?

message: As everyone should know by now, there are quite a few people that come onto wiki and edit the article saying he became one. I put the part about him in there to put an end to the edits, without disturbing the truth of the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.183.44.106 (talk) 21:20, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know what you mean when you say "quite a few people" have mentioned this same thing, since the only person I've ever seen mention it is you. But that's besides the point. Saying that Broly may have become a False Super Saiyan is speculation. No one has proven this statement. // DecaimientoPoético 21:37, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ahem Ahem... To clear up any possible confusion, (his blue haired Super Saiyan form) is indeed a full Super Saiyan transformation, as noted in the sixth daizenshuu.... There, end of discussion.-- bulletproof 3:16 22:25, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I know that, but im referring to the flashback to when he was a kid, and his body had a red and gold aura and his pupils disappeared.71.183.44.106 02:25, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There's not anything, anywhere to state that he actually was a False Super Saiyan. Therefore it can't be added to the article. --Majinvegeta 05:22, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Already knew that, but speculation isnt allowed, even when seemingly evident, in an effort to prevent future vandalism? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.183.44.106 (talk) 15:44, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

text: There is also one other thing you over looked about the flashback in question. That flashback's color scheme was done completely different from the rest of the movie so there is no certainty that the colors shown are colors to comfirm his SSJ type, or even if he was a SSJ ( the first part when he destroyed that planet and Paragus was sucssesful in stopping him or rather holding him at the time.) The second part despite the flashback color scheme he was a normal SSJ. Heat P 18:13, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

text: I didnt overlook it, i said that it was POSSIBLE that he had in the flashback, but that there isnt enough evidence of the form for a conclusion to be made.71.183.44.106 19:18, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree, but regardless, it said he wasn't one in the Daizenshuu. --Majinvegeta 21:28, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Broly: False Super Saiyan? 

message: Quick question about Super Saiyan 2nd Grade/Ascended Super Saiyan stage...
In Dragonball Z episode 230 "Super Saiyan 3?!" where Goku goes SSJ3 for the first time, he demonstrates how he goes from regular state to SSJ1, SSJ2, and then finally SSJ3 to Babidi and Majin Buu.  When he does this, he mentions to Babidi and Majin Buu that an ascended SSJ is also known as SSJ2.  If this is correct, doesnt that make the reference to Super Saiyan 2nd grade/Ascended Super Saiyan on this page incorrect?  I was always under the impression that what Goku says in this episode makes more sense; an "Ascended Super Saiyan" assumes by definition that one has moved past the Super Saiyan (SSJ1) state and into SSJ2.  Make sense? Thoughts??
The difference between a SSJ1 and SSJ2 from what I can see in the tv anime is that the SSJ2 has small static lightning bolts that pulse up and down the character's body.  When in the SSJ1 state, these bolts arent visible or evident.  Other than that, the appearances seem remarkably similar...
If this is correct, than cant we add Vegeta and Future Trunks to the list of characters in DBZ that reached SSJ2?? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.132.111.26 (talk) 03:25, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, when writing the articles, we attempt to ignore as many anime facts as possible because many of them are not accurate when compared to the facts in the manga. We rely heavily on the facts exclusively presented the manga when editing the articles. Ascended Super Saiyan is what the second stage is called in the Manga, the anime (especially the Dub) is not a relaible source for actual facts. The manga is far more accurate when stating facts because it was done by Toriyama himself, and it is more smoothly consistent then the Anime. --Majinvegeta 05:09, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

text: Actually it is stated (SSJ2) as a Super Saiyan that suppasses or goes beyond that of a Super Saiyan. But MJV and Onikage are right. The reason the Funimation names are there is for the people that just watches the english dub. Also the reason they are on the page is because ASSJ, USSJ as well as Full Powered Super Saiyan are Sub Forms or power ups of the original or rather normal form and are part of that form's powers and abilities. One other thing. The Ascended Super Saiyan at the time when Vegeta transformed was the ascended form supassing the limits until as Trunks so strongly put it. Gohan done it right, actually ascended and went beyond the limits of the Super Saiyan form. AKA Super Saiyan 2. So yes SSJ2 can be call the "true" ascended form but since Goku gave it a name before he went SSJ3(another true ascended form). Ascended was stuck with the first Sub Form or next Grade of Super Saiyan as it was the first to supass the limits of a Super Saiyan. Heat P 18:34, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Right. I'm just trying to keep it clear that the "ascended" terminology in terms of the state Vegeta used against Cell was from the dub. Just like how in the dub that form is nicknamed "Super Vegeta" when in the original he used the nickname to refer to himself as a Super Saiyan generally (first used when he killed #19). The dub added and omitted as they saw fit. Onikage725 14:51, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Super Saiyan 2nd Grade/Ascended Super Saiyan