Talk:List of best-selling computer and video games/Archive 2

message: This game wasn't officially released for good old Dreamcast so I doubt it sold 1.5 million units on that plattform. I'll remove it. 213.157.11.194 15:16, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Half Life for DC 

message: Hey, Can someone do a thorough update on all stats on this? I have not been able to do this myself because I cannot find the most relable resource possible. Please include references and citation for everything. <B>(talk </B>• contribs) 16:52, 26 September 2006  (UTC)</small>
:Has anyone found a reliable source yet? If so, post it immediatly, please.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kinopi (talk • contribs) . -- ReyBrujo 03:02, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Complete Update 

message: I think the whole section of the Sega 32X should be removed considering the system itself never sold over 1 million units, so it's very hard to believe that any game ever did. May I remove it? WhiteMinority 17:28, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  32x games. 

message: I can't return a website I used to reference the sales of Sonic CD (it's still used in Vectorman and Streets of Rage 2). Please, keep it to future editions... as well as this:
*MagicBox has the reference to Virtua Fighter 2.
*OoT's numbers: 
*There's a reference (<ref name="goldeneye-sales">), that can be used for GoldenEye 007 and Donkey Kong Country.
igordebraga ≠ 14:18, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Since it's blocked...

message: shouldnt these 2 be treated as 2 diferent games? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.83.181.115 (talk • contribs) .
**Unless they both come in the same box for one price, of course they are two games. The Kinslayer 08:26, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, but they are still two different games, each sold separately. Louis C. 02:43, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pokemon Diamond and Pearl

message: I would like to see the sales of the actual consoles also listed here, or perhaps a separate page linked to this one could list console sales.
71.164.246.103 18:56, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I created a page for console sales a few months ago. It can be found at List of best-selling video game consoles. Sonic_13 19:45, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Console Sales 

message: This page is internally inconsistent. Many of the best selling PC games should be in the top 20 sales of all time by the page's own numbers.
The Top 20 list is for console games only... which is why it's listed under 'Consoles'. 71.0.171.222 23:49, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  update page 

message: If you look at the Myst sales figure of 11 million and goto the cited webpage, it states the figure is for the entire series, not just Myst 1. Shouldn't this be fixed?
I have been trying to fix it, but for some reason, someone keeps reverting that change.
If you look at the sales figure of Riven, and goto the cited webpage for that item, it states that Myst sold only 6 million as opposed to 11 million. 132.236.117.155 02:10, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question for Myst sales figure. 

message: Seriously, click on that one GTA game for PSP, that is a *PRIME* example Zabrak 04:46, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why is it that ever one of the links next to the name don't work? 

message: The Virtual Console allows for downloading legally (at a cost) copies of some of the video games mentioned on the list (most of them being "classic").  If we're going to keep this article, we should address if we're going to count those new purchases from the Virtual Console as a "sale of a copy" of a game.  Thoughts?
Kuro Yoake 00:07, 19 November 2006
I was wondering that myself, I guess we'll see when a Virtual Console game sells high enough. WhiteMinority 02:09, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sales of the Virtual Console version of the game won't count towards say a NES version of that game, but would count towards franchise sales.  Let's say the Virtual Console version of Super Mario 64 sells 20 million copies, we would create a Virtual Console section, and list Super Mario 64 and put 20 million as the figure.  As Super Mario 64 is part of the Mario franchise, we would add 20 million to the Mario franchise figure.  Dionyseus 02:16, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that this would be the only logical way to handle this. Indrian 02:19, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And make "Virtual Console" a sub-section under "Nintendo Wii". WhiteMinority 03:07, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nintendo's new Virtual Console 

message: I think that the Top 20 of all time list should be Top 20 stand alone titles and not have bundled games in there. If not, delete the bundled games section. WhiteMinority 02:36, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Because you see how there are two main sections titled "PC" the other "Consoles" and the 'Top 20' section is under the "consoles" section and therefore only has console games in it. ; WhiteMinority 02:39, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Top 20 

message: In the console pages (PS2, Playstation Portable) Wikipedia reports best seelling games different from here. This must be fixed with a pool and users vote for a consensus. The user who doesn't agree with the consensus must be warned, your editions reverted and finally blocked. Wikipedia is a community and not a Fanboy one sided POV view.  --Ragnarok Addict 13:08, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikipedia contradicting itself? 

message: I used to check this list up regularly,but when i logged in today to check it,i found that there were no pointers towards the sales figures of GTA:San Andreas and GTA:Vice City Stories.These two games have become the top selling titles of the PS2 and PSP,respectively.Also,i think Shadow Of The Colossus,The Godfather and 50 cent:bulletproof crossed the 1 million mark.Please correct Sugreev2001 01:31, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: All games that were referencing to VGCharts.org were deleted, so in order to include a game we need a source to verify the sales information. -- ReyBrujo 02:24, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Grand Theft Auto

message: So does anyone have access to these "accessible and more reliable than VGCharts" sources. User: A Link to the Past says he does, but we all know the real story behind that. And if no one does, wouldn't that give a perfect reason to use VGCharts (at least for games that were released pre-PS2)? WhiteMinority 15:38, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Fun fact: You cannot "know" anything without having any education as to what the actual truth is. If you continue to libel me, you will be blocked, and seeing as how you aren't exactly a productive or civil Wikipedian, you will be blocked for a while most likely. - A Link to the Past (talk) 20:23, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  But I do know the actually truth. I've gathered it from our long discussion. It's that you were lying about having access to more reliable sources. And that's what made me ask the above question and I'd like to see what other people think about it. So I'd enjoy if you stopped posting lying nonsense. WhiteMinority 21:59, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

text:  One of your main reasons on not to use VGCharts was that there are more "reliable and accessible sources" out there. But you don't have them, I don't have them, no one seems to have them. So I don't understand why the numbers can't even be used for PRE-PS2 games... someone clarify, please? WhiteMinority 22:07, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have a distinct feeling you lack proof that I am lying. Anything to show that I am lying other than because I am choosing to do something that I am not obligated to do by any policy or guideline on Wikipedia? - A Link to the Past (talk) 22:24, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: DUDE, if you had access to them you would be able to prove it, BUT YOU CAN'T PROVE IT!! MAKING IT COMPLETELY OBVIOUS YOU DON"T HAVE ACCESS TO THEM!!! Now quit trying to hijack this and talk about the topic on hand. WhiteMinority 22:29, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So basically: If I refuse to do something that I am not required to do by any policy, then I am lying. You are derailing your own discussion by attacking me in an unrelated discussion. I have asked you throughout this whole discussion why your version of the universe is different from the actual one. Burden of proof - you have not met your burden of proof, you have not proven anything. And PS: saying "yes huh you so were lying" is not proof that I am lying. I am going to end this juvenile discussion between a serious Wikipedian who does more than participate in arguments with those who cannot follow basic policies (and a policy is, by the way, something which you have to follow, no questions asked). If you ever intend to edit Wikipedia seriously as opposed to just attacking others, drop a line. But until then, it's not worth debating with you since you lack understanding of basic Wikipedia policies and guidelines. - A Link to the Past (talk) 23:15, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you have access to them you would have proven it by now, it's that simple. WhiteMinority 00:05, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Accessible, more reliable sources. 

message: Let's put games (with source!) that are likely to have passed the 1m mark, but that are not clear (because it is across multiple platforms, etc). Feel free to edit this table directly instead of replying. -- ReyBrujo 12:43, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Wii Sports is not bundled in Japan. But without Japan, it most likely has done enough to break 1 million (although sources are necessary). - A Link to the Past (talk) 06:57, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I know, that's why I said Media Creates numbers for the game only. And there are sources for how many Wii's were sold in NA and Europe and then how much the game alone has sold in Japan, but do we want to put all those together on the page? WhiteMinority 17:36, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Probable best selling 

message: I haven't checked up on this page for a while, but what is with all of this US only crap now, shouldn't the sales be worldwide for each game ?
I'm seeing in Japan only or US only and it just looks like a way to slash deserving titles mostly across the ninendo and sony consoles. The only time I feel this should be used is when an accurate world statistic isn't available and only a news feed for a single game showing sold X amount within that country.
I vote for removal of this and ask for all of the old titles to be reverted back. I hope some of you will support this.
--70.48.32.8 20:02, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Bother to read the debates, please. - A Link to the Past (talk) 20:39, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Trying to be more helpful, we only add verifiable information. We need a source for sales information (except when we add the different sourced numbers to get an approximate total to sort the game in its list). It is easy to get information about US and Japanese markets. If the source specifically says "1 million in Europe", we specify that the game sold 1 million copies in Europe, so that readers won't think the game sold 1 million worldwide. Numbers that do not specify Europe, Japan or US are referring to worldwide sales. -- ReyBrujo 20:47, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  US only ?? What the heck ? 

message: The PC games lists Warcraft III's expansion as selling one million copies...
...and you need the original in order to run the expansion...
...and the original doesn't appear on the list!
Not only that, but the statistics on this page suggest that between Warcrafts one two and three, 13 million copies were sold. Surely there's something wrong here... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 142.151.162.200 (talk • contribs) .
:Hello there. There is a small problem: Wikipedia is a collaboration between many, many users. As you can imagine, anyone can say "I heard it sold 3 million", "No, I read somewhere it sold 4 million", "No way, the original sold 6 million, the third part should have sold more". But we can't just add all that information in the article because, when the casual user reads something, we need to also say "If you have doubts, check this reliable source to learn more". Now, maybe Warcraft III sold more than a million, but we have a source that says it sold a million. Yes, the source is over three years old (published in 2003!), but unluckily, we do not have a newer source saying "Warcraft III sold six million". Between having a reliable but outdated list, or having an estimated list made by fans, we choose the former. -- ReyBrujo 01:45, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Warcraft III... 

message: I watched Link to the Past and WhiteMinority duke it out over who had reliable sources or not, and it was laughable.  Come on, WhiteMinority; please grow up.  It says that the guidelines for this page is "Be Polite" among others.
That aside, why not have a representative of Wikipedia Gaming actually ask the manufacturers themselves about the sales to date?  I'm sure they must have a reliable list somewhere.  We could have that rep update the page every month or so.  That'd probably solve most of the problems concerning this one page. Kuro Yoake 19:20, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Because that is considered original research. We are not the reporters asking sources, we are the editors searching for reports. In order to put information in Wikipedia, we must be able to say "Game X sold Y copies worldwide because Z said so." with Z being a reliable source. This puts every Wikipedia editor at the same level, otherwise we would have "reliable" editors whom we must trust no matter what they write because they have talked with the sources, and "unreliable" editors who must search for sources. -- ReyBrujo 23:49, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, I get it.  Many thanks, then.  I'll keep a close eye open for a "reliable source", then. Kuro Yoake 03:02, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Another problem is that publishers like Sony report SHIPPED numbers (how many have been sent to retailers, or even just sitting in warehoused like Sony does) while others like Nintendo) use sold numbers (how many copies have actually been bought by people). TJ Spyke 23:53, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  What about just asking the manufacturers? 

message: Here are a few things taken from http://www.gamespress.com - which unfortunately is not open to the public. They may be helpful, but they cannot stand on their own.
* The Crash franchise has sold over 20 million copies worldwide, with over 8 million units sold in North America alone. [May 17, 2001] [This figure includes Crash Bandicoot + Crash Bandicoot 2 + Crash Bandicoot 3 + Crash Team Racing + Crash Bash]
* Driver and Driver 2 - which have sold more than 12 million copies worldwide [Feb 16, 2004]
* Spyro the Dragon is a real-time, 3-D platform fantasy adventure game with broad demographic appeal.  Produced by UIS and developed by Insomnia Games, Spyro was launched in September 1998 by Sony Computer Entertainment and was followed by a second title in  November 1999. Combined, these two releases have sold in excess of 5 million units worldwide, and have consistently ranked in the top 10 of Playstation title sales in both North America and Europe. [September 3, 2000]
I'll have a further look to see if I can find any unique sales figures, not just figures for multiple titles. --TheEmulatorGuy 01:12, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Possibly helpful information 

message: Hi i'm new and I've just edited the Age of empires collection total sales.  However, I'd like someone to have a look and make sure everything is A OK.  I posted the link for the 16 million copies sold for the first age and age of kings plus 2 expansions which was a report before the age of empires 3 went gold.  So with the refrence for age 3 selling 1.5 million, that total is 17.5 million.  So Once someone is kind enough to verify that I haven't messed up this wonderfull site, they can delete this post.  Incase you need the website here it is http://pc.ign.com/articles/653/653518p1.html—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.215.80.69 (talk) 00:26, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I reverted the amount to 16, as the reference stated 16 only. I think it could be possible to add a reference to the 1.5m for AoE 3 and add both numbers, we are doing something similar when we have scattered numbers from Japan, US and Europe. However, I am not sure if everyone will agree. -- ReyBrujo 04:36, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Age of empires total collection sales check 

message: I've noticed that people have been putting the 3 stand alone expansions for Guild Wars as one complete game in the best selling PC games lst. I do not think this should not be done because there are numerous franchises games which would then qualify for entrance, eg GTA 3, Vice City, San Andreas and HL2, HL2:Ep1, HL2:Ep 2 etc would all be grouped together and thus be higher on the list. It would open the way for many other games and is a false indication of the best selling individual games. The only other item on the list that meets this categrory is Starcraft and the Brood War expansion but I can't find numbers for just Starcraft so I left it. So do you guys think that the list should only be for individual titles or should we be grouping expansions and such? Most of the other lists on this page do not group games together and Guild Wars should not be the exception. (To ReyBrujo: World of Warcraft is an individual retail game, not a franchise)nutcrackr 03:42, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Starcraft was left there because the only amount that was found was with the BW expansion pack. And since you need SC to play BW, we considered it a single game. GTA:VC and GTA:SA cannot be considered a single game because you can buy and play one without having the other. Let's see what others have to say (I don't play games PC games other than Counter-Strike, Starcraft and Heroes of Might and Magic). -- ReyBrujo 05:23, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Franchises in PC games list (re: Guild Wars franchise) 

message: The Gamespot article says the source came from Konami, that's acceptable.  But if for some reason you don't want to use the Gamespot article, here's a Gaming-Age article that has the same information.   Dionyseus 22:11, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In the whole Gamespot article, there is not a single reference about Konami other than the infobox article. I am switching to Gaming-Age, as the Gamespot one is pretty vague. -- ReyBrujo 02:04, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Metal Gear Solid 3 source 

message: either we lump all 8 million game sellers as tied or we choose one to be off of the list or we increased the list to fifty, but I suspect a similiar problem would arise. any thoughts on this matter?Merc25 23:32, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  we need to come to a decission on the Top 20 games