Talk:Ilinden–Preobrazhenie Uprising/Archive 2

message: This page was created with a very brief couple of sentences at 08:58, 2 May 2005, and then was dormant for a while. Then, at 23:56, 21 June 2005, the content was replaced with a copy and paste of text from "Ilinden uprising", and then the "Ilinden uprising" page was made a redirect to here. All subsequent activity has taken place at this page; but some of the history has been lost. When the move was made, notice should have been given here at the talk page. I am doing that now more than two years late, but placing it in the proper historical sequence on the talk page.
Here is the history, in detail.
*02:53, 28 April 2004 "Ilinden uprising" created.
*23:14, 5 June 2004 to 06:16, 29 April 2005 108 edits of change to  "Ilinden uprising" 
*08:58, 2 May 2005 very short new article created from scratch, called "Ilinden-Preobrazhenie Uprising". This is the origin of this page here.
*14:23, 4 May 2005 to 21:31, 27 May 2005 10 more edits to "Ilinden uprising"
*23:56, 21 June 2005 to "Ilinden-Preobrazhenie Uprising" initial content was replaced with the last "Ilinden uprising" revision.
*23:58, 21 June 2005 "Ilinden uprising" replaced with redirect to "Ilinden-Preobrazhenie Uprising"
*14:47, 2 August 2005 to 18:03, 29 August 2007 204 edits to "Ilinden-Preobrazhenie Uprising"
Had this name change been done with a move, rather than a copy and paste, we would have here more history and discussion from early days of the article. You can still find the old article history here. You can still find the old article talk page here.
This historical information was placed here on 00:14, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Content copied from Ilinden uprising 

message: LionKing, you can't just claim "better this way" and start edit warring. The Ilinden uprising was in Macedonia. Furthermore it happened in a time for wich very few historians dispute the existance of a separate Macedonian ethnicity. So it's only logical that the macedonian language should come first. Now if you ask me - there is not even a need for a bulgarian translation, but as a gesture of good will and an attempt for a compromise I don't object to it. Just please stop editing while giving reasons like this. --Realek 20:33, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Few historians may dispute now, however at the time of the uprising the population was generally considered bulgarian. Read the newspaper from the times, as well the statute of BMARC/IMARO. FunkyFly 20:50, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yet again FunkyFly you try to impose a nationality to my people. You should understand already that it's not possible. Please stop! It's Irational and insulting. Anyway, the reason why SOME historic references were made for the Macedonian people as Bulgarians were explained in the Macedonians article so many times. I'm pretty sure you know them, but if you don't read again - more carefully. Regards --Realek 22:06, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Last round of changes by LionKing 

message: Can you please leave the order of names alone. The article is at Ilinden-Preobrazhenie Uprising, not Ilinden Uprising, so it's obvious which name should go first. Not to mention that the "The Times" newspaper article uses the word Bulgarian, not Macedonian. This also helps set priorities. Telex 20:48, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Very interesting how you find theese pretty irelevant things to have such a weight, but when it comes to rock solid facts that go against the propaganda you are spreading - you just ignore it. Double standards have no place in wikipedia. The uprising was in Macedonia NOT Bulgaria and the wast majority of the rebels were Macedonians. So how can it be a Bulgarian uprising, except in the heads of the negators of the Macedonian people? I assure you we Macedonians exist. I'm one of them and I'm real. Also let me be clear that I'm no Bulgarian or Greek. Deal with it already. --Realek 20:59, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I can tell you haven't even glanced at the statute of BMARC/IMARO (and guess in which language they were). Of course Macedonians exist today (you're proof of it), but there were no Macedonians then as was there no Macedonian language (or there is no evidence of there being any Macedonians or a Macedonian language then). Telex 21:02, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Right, I forgot that I was invented in 1945 (overnight) by Tito. --Realek 21:15, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you say so. Telex 21:22, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

text: You are real. It's the history you were taught that is falsified. I understand your frustration, but it is a matter of NPOV here, not a matter of supporting possible psychological problems that some people may have, if they find out (or if they refuse to accept) that everything they have been taught is biased. NikoSilver  (T) @ (C) 21:05, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: On the contrary. The history you were thought is falsified and not only that but irational and ridiculous. On top of that greek editors add even more irational things that you try to incorporate in wikipedia. So the "possible psychological problems" you are talking about concern you, not me. --Realek 21:15, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Phases of grief: 1. Denial 2. Anger  3. Bargaining 4. Depression 5. Acceptance. Long way to go. FunkyFly 16:29, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Anyway, what difference does the order of names make - put them in alphabetical order, that's how lists are compiled, not of POV criteria. Telex 21:06, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You're so transparent when suggesting the alphabetical order. Because if M was before B you would have been against it. But if you are so keen on ignoring the relevance order then go change some Macedonian-non related articles in that way and only then come back trolling Macedonian articles. At least then you would have an excuse for applying it here. --Realek 21:15, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yawn... NikoSilver  (T) @ (C) 21:17, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure why you yawn... Maybe it's a lack of oxigen or maybe you're tired and sleepy. Either way it explains the irational things you are writing. --Realek 21:20, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:AGF, Realek. Telex 21:22, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Realek 

message: Does that "banner of the Krushevo Republic" have a source. See this. The banner on the article now looks like makeup to me. --Telex 21:34, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Banner 

message: 1. The flag IS properly licenced, it is more than 100 years old and on public domain.
2. BMARC did indeed prepare the Uprising, which has been long in the making well before 1902. 
  /FunkyFly.talk_  05:33, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  To whoever it might concern 

message: Wikipedia has become nothing but a joke by using the so-called recollections of Macedonian history from the perspective of bitter bulgarians and greeks who to this day have not gotten over the existence of our Macedonian national identity and Macedonian heritage.
Get over yourselves. Macedonia is an acient country which has been carved down to it's present day borders by forces who outnumber our population motivated by territorial expansion illusions (delusions).
Goce Deltchev was and always will be Macedonian.  Why would he be fighting on behalf of bulgaria if bulgaria was already granted indepedendence following the San Stefano Treaty?  Did anyone bother to figure that one out?
Goce fought for Macedonian independence.  It is a shame that wikipedia has chosen to take sides when it is supposed to represent a neutral forum of facts, that's right FACTS not fiction.  For this reason, wikipedia has become the joke it is.
It's just another tool of greek and bulgarian propaganda.
Shame on you. 
209.247.5.15 02:40, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Macedonians being assimilated once again by Wikipedia 

message: Please refer to the external sources in the article, the ethnic groups are listed as they appear in the sources. Do not remove sourced information. Mr. Neutron 16:21, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bulldoger