Talk:Weapon (Final Fantasy)

message: Shouldn't the FFVII Weapons have the 'Weapon' part be all uppercase, as in Diamond WEAPON, instead of Diamond Weapon? That's how they were referred to as in the game. --Apostrophe 05:15, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Uppercase Magic

message: arent the Cetra the the Creators of the WEAPONS? If So this should be included in the article.
:Nope, they were created by the Planet itself. -Reichu 05:08, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It's mentioned by Bugenhagen, I believe.  Before the WEAPONs wake.  Definitely made by the Planet itself, and not by the Cetra, though they probably knew about them.  TKarrde 20:07, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Played through the game again.  Ifalna talks about the WEAPONs in the recordings at Icicle Inn before you go to the Great Glacier, and Hojo talks about the WEAPONs more immediately before the WEAPONs wake up and go berserk.  They were created by the planet to destroy Jenova, but never had a chance to be used because the last survivors of the Cetra used their remaining power to seal Jenova up underground (this was before Jenova was dug up by a Shinra archaelogical team). TKarrde 15:20, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Yes and Ive also found information regarding what theyre supposed to do. Which is destroy every thing capable of harming the planet and the lifestream and in doing so increase the flow of souls in the lifestream. -- Psi edit 17:12, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin 

message: Sapphire Weapon's name is never actually mentioned in FFVII. It was fan-given. Should this be included as well? ~ Hibana
:I know it wasn't named in FFVII the game, but the name is not fan-given. It is actually its official name. I have record somewhere... — Cuahl 30 June 2005 17:38 (UTC)
Okay. ~ Hibana
:In case you're still interested or confused, here's where it was confirmed: square-enix.co.jp/shop/goods
:A long time ago Square Japan were selling models of the FF creatures and here is "Sapphire". See here also (2nd set). — Cuahl 4 July 2005 22:29 (UTC)
I have pictures :)
::It was first confirmed to be its official name in the bonus fourth disk that was included with FFVII International. Druff 18:45, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sapphire Weapon 

message: Where does the information on Omega in DoC come from? I can find no co-oberration in a quick search, though I did find this; http://www.ff7-doc.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=90. --Made2Fade 18:16, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm pretty sure this is just blatant speculation. They refer to Chaos - and arguably Lucrecia, as well - as "weapons" in the DoC trailer(s) (E3 one, I think), which would imply that they are NOT talking about the same Weapons that we met in the original game. Impossible to be sure, although I think that this sort of speculation does not belong in Wikipedia at this point, considering the ambiguity. Omega, as the forum thread you found speculates, may simply be Azul's transformation, in the same way that Chaos is Vincent's. -Reichu 15:32, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Omega WEAPON

message: I added the Warmech to the page. 
I also thought of adding Asteroth from FFII and Shinryuu from FFV (Japanese versions.)
Finally, what about the Dark Aeons from FFX?
None of these has a weapon-related name, but I think they fit into the definition presented in the article.--Lettucefolk 12:41, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we need to keep on point here: the only special case presented originally was Final Fantasy V's Omega, and the rationale for that was simply because he reappeared in a very similar form as Omega Weapon in Final Fantasy VIII. The Dark Aeons certainly don't fit in with the definition presented (they're not biomechanical), and I'm not really comfortable including WarMech, either. This isn't an article about powerful, optional bosses from the FF series, and if we start treating it as such, it's going to get way too long, and very likely way too fancrufty (Pink Puffs, Ozma, et al.). I think the furthest astray we risk going is for folks like Omega and Atma (second form). Anything beyond that belongs in another article, IMO. – Seancdaug 02:14, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

text: Good question, actually. Probably because of its resemblance to the two Weapons that are in the game (Omega and Ultima). I don't really have a problem with mentioning other superbosses where appropriate (say, for example, mentioning Shinryu in our writeup of Omega from FFV), but I think any mention should be fairly restricted. For example, I think it would be worthwhile to have a sentence mentioning WarMECH in the context of another entry (perhaps Omega, again, because they look superficially similar), but not much beyond that. Contextualizing is good, but this article does have a topic, and that topic is not being served if we just take it as an excuse to summarize every optional boss in the series' history. – Seancdaug 11:13, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing Weapons 

message: WarMech was recently added as a Weapon from Final Fantasy. It kind of makes sense to me, but WarMech is a regular, random enemy that can be encountered multiple times. What does everyone else think? ~ Hibana 23:12, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: But WARMECH is not listed anywhere on Wikipedia.  Where else is more appropriate?  He's a precursor to the WEAPON concept - he's a powerful boss, he's not (necessarily) plot-related, he's more powerful than many plot-required bosses in the game (heck, some consider him stronger than Chaos - I sure do), he's got attacks and powers unavailable to other monsters (Nuclear)...  The similarities are many.  He's not called a weapon, but he does seem to be a precursor to the idea behind them.  If not on this article, where would be most appropriate to include him?  Kasreyn 02:27, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There is also Shinryuu and Ozma, a couple more examples of Final Fantasy Superbosses that don't fit the Weapon mold, of which this page is specifically about. Granted, I'd say WarMech is more Weapon-esque than either of those two (though, on the other hand, my examples can each only be encountered once), but he isn't the only one getting shafted. There isn't really a point I'm trying to make; I just thought I'd mention that =] Ojaxis 14:25, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: WarMech

message: Alright, so he's not mentioned as a Weapon, but neither is Omega or WarMech. How about it?
(Momus 00:23, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, there is some debate on whether or not WarMech should be included, and I'm inclined to say no, myself. Omega (FFV) is in because he does reappear as a Weapon in later games (his appearance in FFVIII, for example, is similar to his appearance in FFV). I can see Omega as a border case, and would support his inclusion, but WarMech and Ozma both push things too far, IMO. This isn't an article on FF superbosses in general: it's an article on Weapons. – Seancdaug 02:03, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Ozma - Final Fantasy IX

message: The name of the Weapon in FF7 is actually "Ultima", not "Ultimate", so I took the liberty of correcting this. On a somewhat more pressing note, Ultima Weapon has its own article. I think it probably goes without saying that it should be merged with this one... -Reichu 05:07, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ultima Weapon 

message: I was just thinking that if WEAPONs appear in most of the FF games. Then couldnt that sort of imply that the world in the FF story lines are really the same and theyre all just put in diiferent timelines and alternate universes of each other? -- Psi edit
:There are several consistencies between the FF games. That's what makes them all part of the same series. Unfortunately, no one has ever come out and officially stated anything in your theory. ~ Hibana 03:02, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Theory in the FF universe 

message: Ruby Weapon has 800,000 HP not 1,000,000. All info concerning Ruby and any other enemy can be viewed in this Enemy Mechanics FAQ. 
http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/final_fantasy_vii_enemy_mech.txt
:that is a fan made guide.  sure it looks cool, but it can be wrong and is not a valid reference. gamefaqs isn't always right. Spencer 06:47, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: i'm sorry boss, you don't understand.  it is not reliable.  it is not an offical source.  you do not know the person who made that FAQ.  fan made creations cannot be held as truth. now please stop chaning the article. Spencer 06:55, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

text: I agree with Spencer that FAQs are not the ideal source of information. In this case, though, it's the only source that has been provided. An "official" source would trump the fan-made FAQ, but a FAQ is better than the lack of source information currently present in the article. – Seancdaug 10:24, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added a reference to a Versus Books player's guide that was published when the game was released in 1997. I could have used Harvard referencing to make it look more official, but this should be okay. The hit points should not be changed again unless a reputable source says otherwise. Then we can continue this discussion. ~ Hibana 16:54, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

text: not to be a jerk, but does that correspond to the North American release of the game? Spencer 21:26, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

text: k, ^_^ Spencer 21:31, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ruby Weapon 

message: I've beaten each several times and noted down the damage required.  The game seems to generate a somewhat random amount of HP for each of them every time you fight.  (As opposed to Ultima and Diamond WEAPONs, which seem to always have a precise amount of HP).  I've beaten Emerald with only barely over a million damage, and one time it took something like 1.7 million.  Ruby has varied from 1.2 to 1.5 million in my experience.  What system the game uses to generate the HP, I have no idea.  Kasreyn 02:08, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Note on Ruby and Emerald HP in VII

message: There seems to be a minor revert war going on between those users who believe that Ultima Weapon is called "Ultimate Weapon" in the English version of FFVII and those who don't. If I recall correctly, it is indeed called "Ultimate Weapon," but Cloud's most powerful sword that the player obtains from the monster, as well as the monsters and weapons in the rest of the games in the series, is called "Ultima Weapon." ~ Hibana 18:17, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The Japanese name for it is actually "Ultima WEAPON." For whatever reason, the translators expanded that to "Ultimate WEAPON." Ryu Kaze 01:08, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ultima or Ultimate?

message: *Is Chaos ever officially referred to as a Weapon in the course of Dirge, or is this simply fanon? Some citation would be nice. --Made2Fade 08:58, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Chaos

message: Vegnagun from Final Fantasy X-2
I agree, Vegnagun should certainly qualify as a Weapon. --Daedalus 22:11, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  You're Missing One 

message: What does it mean when the Diamond Weapon sensed "murder"? I don't understand where this stems from... Disinclination 01:02, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Diamond Weapon ... Sensing Murder? 

message: In the "Dawn of Souls" bonus area that you get after beating the game, you can fight the Ultima Weapon to get the Ultima Tome in the warp leading away from Machanon. This is not only important to the storyline of the game, it shows that Weapons are capable of passing into the realms of the dead, which I think is an important bit of trivia.
:Trivia by definition is unnecessary information.  Not only is it trivia, but it is trivia that only applies to one game.  As interesting as that implication is, I don't think it belongs in the article.  It's importance to the storyline, however, may be worth mentioning, but I can't comment on that not having played "Dawn of Souls" myself. --Daedalus 22:18, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Ultima Weapon from FF 1+II: Dawn of Souls should appear in this 

message: Should Warmech be mentioned here? I know it's not a weapon, but it's more of a weapon than Yiazmat. Also, shouldn't the weapons that only appear in remakes have a heading with the remake's extra title. For example, under the FFII section here it would say "Final Fantasy II: Dawn of Souls" or whatever. Just a thought. --Jopasopa 22:32, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Warmech 

message: Can we get a definitive answer on which of these is correct? Currently upper and lower cases are being used inconsistently across articles, breaking some anchored links. WEAPON or Weapon? QmunkE 12:31, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: WEAPON is only in FF7. I'd say all-caps in FF7 articles only.—ウルタプ 14:37, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Upper or lower case 

message: Not like it matters all that much, but in the PAL version of Final Fantasy XII, Omega has 10,000,000 HP, not 1,000,000 HP (source Pigeyback stratergy guide) 88.109.242.165 10:48, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Omega Mark XII (wrong HP) 

message: Many of the claims in its section is OR, speculation, or blatantly false.
"If the player visits Omega Mark XII before beating Hell Wyrm and accepting the Yiazmat mark hunt, Omega is in his "dormant" state, and resembles a giant treasure chest, much like its drones, the Mimics. It is not necessary to beat Yiazmat in the American Version in order to wake Omega Mark XII up, the player only needs to accept Yiazmat's hunt from Montblanc. In the Japanese version, the player must beat Hell Wyrm and Yiazmat in order to awaken Omega.
Omega was made to beat Yiazmat, however Omega escaped while his owner was working on him because a door was left open. Omega was made alongside a large number of miniature Omegas called Mimics, thus making Omega the prototype. The Mimics also escaped with Omega. Omega travels between dimensions and feeds on mist to survive."
It claims that Mimics are based on Omega (which, according to the Bestiary, was dormant in the Great Crystal, far from the Barheim Passage where almost all Mimics actually live).
It also claims that Omega escaped while his owner was working on him (the owner alluded to in the Bestiary was not actually capable of working on Omega - he just bought him, and the manner of Omega's escape is never explained). The bestiary also never says anything about other Mimics escaping with Omega.
This is what actually appears in the Bestiary (courtesy of http://www.ff12bestiary.com/):
*"An ancient weapon of war, traveling the rifts between dimensions. It's body is set with machineries and weaponry of a far higher order than anything made today. Though it is a construct, it was built with the ability to grow, and so it has evolved like a living creature.
It generates the energy it needs to live by filtering and condensing Mist from the air."
Mimics:
*"30. Barheim Passage: Mimic
GENUS: Insect
CLASSIFICATION: Mimic
[1/2] Observations
Being an insectoid with four sharpened limbs and a hard, metallic shell.
Preferring to feast upon brains of high intellect, whereby they may improve their own faculties. By arranging their own carapaces to resemble a coffer, they wait for unwitting prey to "open" them, thereby proving some modicum of intelligence, and thus suitability for consumption.
It is most often humes, wracked with base greed, who fall prey to this simple but efficacious ruse, which in turn has made humes the mainstay of the mimic's diet."
*"32. Barheim Passage: Tiny Mimic
GENUS: Insect
CLASSIFICATION: Mimic
[1/2] Observations
The wandering nature of these creatues has been attributed to their apparent predilection for hunting prey of high intelligence. From their diet of Nature's intelligentsia, they receive nutrients to aid their own development, and it so follows that fledglings are often vapid and dull. Some strains, however, such as the tiny bug, never leave the larval stage, and so die as poor of wit as they were when they were born."
*"34. Barheim Passage: Battery Mimic
GENUS: Insect
CLASSIFICATION: Mimic
[1/2] Observations
What strange manner of creature, to so readily absorb the crackling power of electricity!
Having absorbed an appropriate amount of nourishment from their feast of lightning, they dischare spectacularly, this being their primary form of excretion. Forgoing food of substance, their life-span is pitifully short."
*"36. Barheim Passage: Tiny Battery
GENUS: Insect
CLASSIFICATION: Mimic
[1/2] Observations
Gaze upon the larval form of the battery mimic and despair. Wracked with hunger from the moment of birth, every moment of these poor creatures' lives is spent in pursuit of sustenance. Technically, they can be considered to be in a constant state of starvation until maturity, and are prone to attack any perceived obstruction to their feeding. On rare occasions, a tiny battery possessing a modicum of intellect is born. Theories that these gifted grubs become queens have gained some following of late."
*"79. Henne Mines: Thunderbug
GENUS: Insect
CLASSIFICATION: Mimic
[1/2] Observations
Being a battery mimic that, due to Mist exposure, has left the normal course of its development and become something altogether different.
As a result of the rapid changes induced by Mist, much of its form is twisted and misshapen.
A residual static charge helps this creature regulate its temperature, and generate the energy necessary to break down the materials from which it draws sustenance.
Its body is an example of evolution gone horrible awry, and many natural philosophers have suggested that it is in a very much terminal state, seeing no possible futher permutation of form through which this creature has not already been."
*"277. Bosses: Mimic Queen
GENUS: Boss
CLASSIFICATION: Giant Insect
[1/1] Observations
Of the gregarious hordes of mimics, the Queen alone possesses the ability to reproduce. Her egg-laying capabilities being truly astounding, she has been known to lay over 100 eggs in a single day.
The eggs, already quickened within their mother, hatch with little delay into the creatures known as "tiny batteries," creating a veritable army overnight. Such is a day in the life of the Queen, and she will have very many of them, for Queens can remain fertile for several hundreds of years."
*"46. Lhusu Mines: Bug
GENUS: Insect
CLASSIFICATION: Mimic
[1/2] Observations
Being a rare strain of mimic, its shell turned jet black due to magicite consumption in the larval stage.
While the magicite content of its body works to harden its shell against attacks, this effect is lost outside of magicite-rich areas.
Consequently, all attempts at laboratory inquiry into the creature have been in vain, and its mechanisms for absorbing the power of magicite remain a mystery."
*"48. Lhusu Mines: Pandora
GENUS: Insect
CLASSIFICATION: Mimic
[1/2] Observations
Some boxes are made to be opened, others to remain closed. A prime example of the latter is none other than the pandora, a fiendish creature that assumes the look of a chest or coffer, granting death to any who open it. But o, the folly! For still it is whispered that the taboo upon the death-box's opening is nothing more than a rumor spread by those avaricious few who would claim the treasures inside for themselves! How many, hearing this, have opened what they believed to be a boon only to find a bane."
*"37. Barheim Passage: Mimeo
GENUS: Insect
CLASSIFICATION: Mimic
[1/2] Observations
Being a creature whose substance is almost entirely metallic.
That its parts so close resemble commonly worked metals assists its camouflage. Few are they who deem an unmoving lump of iron to be just cause for alarm, and so do the corpses of the foolish congregate around such innocuous deposits."
and the legend:
*"12/24/27
Request from said Patron, wanting a Device for felling Beasts, Fiends, &c., and I not thinking to ask what Sort of Creature he hunted, but it matters not. Whatever it may be, it will have Wants, and I need only Fashion an appropriate Lure to whet its Greed. Perhaps something in the Shape of a Coffer.
19/26/27
Prototype complete. When places surreptitiously amongst my Assistant's Belongings he reached for 't with a swiftness and lo, his Shock and Dismay at being caught! Now I only need to fashion for it a Means of Attack.
29/26/27
Delivery complete.
1/27/27
Received Complaint. The Target was in Fact a Dragon of some Power. Tell me these Things sooner! Yet one must not Complain to one's Patron. On bended Knee and with Head hung low, submitted I a Tally of additional Costs and Fees, for which I was only reimbursed after much Hemming and Hawing.
I will not forget this.
5/27/27
How to defeat that which cannot be defeated?
Nightly, I ponder...
6/28/27
'Tis hot. Unbearably so. I find this Season most unpalatable. Be that as it may, I have devised a Plan for this Project. When One does not know the Strength of one's foe, one must first observe. Then, One must attain the necessary Strength to defeat the Enemy. My Weapon will be a learning, growing Entity!
16/29/27
Growth Lattice in place. Had I not made it Myself, indeed, I would say it lived. Yet all that lives must have a Mother, and so that is what I shall make next.
14/30/27
The Mother is complete, and continues Her growth. So too grows her Brood, for daily she gives birth to small larval Weapons. Like their Mother, they too must have the Appearance of small Coffers. 'Tis much like the laying of Eggs one might witness in the Wilds, and as such is quite fascinating, yet at this Rate my Laboratory will soon be filled with Coffers. Returning current stock to Storage.
29/30/27
Delivery. Via reviewing Crystal concealed in one of the Coffers, I watch the Fray. 'Tis a Dragon of incredible Size, indeed! My Creations' Attacks appear to strike true, yet the Creature is nary the worse for it. I shudder to think on how much further Growth will be needed before the Results can be seen in this deadly Contest.
1/31/27
Received Complaint. "How dare you allow the fell Beast to escape?" or some such. I essayed to explain that Time was required for the learning to take root, yet my dear Patron's ill Humors did rise, setting his Face to shine bright Red, and there was no reasoning with Him.
A Pestilence take him!
Finding this whole Affair to have left a bitter Taste upon my Tongue, I departed, bu only after creeping down to the Patron's well-appointed Cellars, there releasing a very young Mother. That should give him a Surprise in a few Years.
5/31/27
I wonder where Mark XII could have gotten to? Both viewing Crystal and Transmitter were crushed in the Fray. I can only surmise it found some Place rich in Mist whereby to foster its continued growth. I wish it the best of Luck."
While the legend clearly is referring to Omega, and describes it as utilizing the coffer-camouflage that Mimics also utilize, it is also quite clear that the coffers are constructs - while the entries for Mimics describe them as natural insects that have evolved separately though similarly.
Since this would require a near-full replacement of the paragraphs to correct, I only want to make the comments that it needs to be done - I can't figure out how to properly change it myself without ruining the section. Thanks!KrytenKoro 21:06, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Omega Mk. XII 

message: I'm pretty sure that they never actually refer to it as "Omega Weapon", but just simply "Omega".  Now that's not to say that it shouldn't be included in this article, but shouldn't its name at least be changed to just "Omega"?  It doesn't even really qualify as a Weapon in the FFVII universe anyway: Weapons were made by the planet 2,000 years before FFVII in order to defend the planet, while Omega is an entity whose purpose is to absorb and guide the Lifestream on its journey across the universe. So I would think this would be reason enough to change it to just "Omega". –Nahald 00:12, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's purpose, like the other WEAPONS, is to guard the lifestream. If that means abandoning the planet, so be it, but has overall the same purpose.KrytenKoro 05:29, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Omega WEAPON" in ''Dirge of Cerberus'' 

message: Do we have a picture for clear? It seems we should have an illustration of the basic shape for each one (except Gaia - there's what, 7 of them? 9?), so Clear needs a pic.KrytenKoro 02:11, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ugh, not really. The article is supposed to be arranged so as to be merged in Monsters of FF. As such, we need to remove all the sections and make everything fit in one section of the Monsters of FF article. We can't possibly put 13 pictures in this case. There can be a pic of Clear in the FF:Unlimited article and/or the FF Wikia, but not here on this general overview. Look at Recurring character names of Final Fantasy for examples of how the merged section should look like. Kariteh 06:34, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clear?