Talk:Bulgarian Turks

message: It will be a good thing to have reliable source for the claim that the Turks in Bulgaria are a million and even more. Based on the Bulgarian National Census from 2001 the Turks in Bulgaria are 746,664  see here  Also, see Turks in Bulgaria, where the number is also the same. Moreover, in Islam in Bulgaria the number of all Muslims in the country is around 968,000, but not every Bulgarian Muslim is from Turkish ethnicity. Therefore, it will be important to have more reliable source on this issue. Thanks.
Stoichkov8 (talk) 20:21, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Turks in Bulgaria

message: Here is a list of notable Turks in Bulgaria who still do not have an article in English. *Note all these people have an article in either the Turkish or Bulgarian wiki's.
*Besim Rasim Abdullah
*Kel Aliço
*Embiya Çavuş
*İsmail Çavuş
*Dżewdet Czakyrow
*Merdin Deniz
*Ali Dinçer
*Osman Durali
*Ömer Osman Erendoruk
*İsmail Fenni Ertuğrul
*Sibel Gürsoy
*Yasemin Hadivent
*Ayhan Mustafov Haşimov
*Yeni Işık
*Ahmet Kara (sporcu)
*Metin Kazak
*Hulusi Kentmen
*Razgrad Olayları
*Tuna Ötenel
*Ahmet Şerif
*Muharrem Tahsin
*Sabri Tata
*İsmail Hakkı Tonguç
*Süleyman Hilmi Tunahan
*Mehmet Türker
*Embiya Ulusoy
*Şoray Uzun
Deutsch-Türkçe-English (talk) 14:21, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I might help you with some of them any time soon. --Laveol T 15:53, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  OK. I'll try and help out as well. Justinz84 (talk) 16:22, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable people 

message: It's clearly stated by Norris that the story of the Sari Saltic has the charackeristics of a folk legend: "Such a migration has an umistakable charackter of a folk epic destan". Also the story of Seljuk wanderings to  Dobrudja relies entirely on the account by Yazicioğlu Ali. The other authors also speculate on the origin of the Turks in Northeastern Bulgaria, but they advance very different theories.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kostja (talk • contribs) 17:11, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pre-Ottoman settlement of Turks 

message: My opinion is that the heat needs turned down here! Firstly, you should stop calling one another vandals. Neither of you is vandalizing, you are making content edits that another editor agrees with. That's alright—just be sure not to make them repeatedly! You have come to the talk page to discuss, which is a good thing, but you're talking past one another and accusing of lies and vandalism. It really does make things easier if you will each presume that the other side is acting in good faith. If you can't keep a discussion civil, I'd advise requesting informal or formal mediation to help you with that. You may also wish to consider a request for comment on the article. You don't need page protection, what's in desperate need here is civility. Each of you may have a personal viewpoint, but those do not matter here. All that matters for writing an article is what reliable sources say. If sources disagree, each position should receive due weight and no more. Help each other examine sources, figure some points you can both agree on, then move on to the disputed sections. If you'll talk with each other rather than past each other, you'll find this to go much more easily! Seraphimblade Talk to me 04:05, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Third opinion

message: This article is currently 99,180 bytes! I am going to create a new page List of Bulgarian Turks. Because this article is already too long, we can at least shorten it by having this list on another page. Can the admins please remove the section Notable Turks in Bulgaria and put the link List of Bulgarian Turks in the see also section. Thank you. Deutsch-Türkçe-English (talk) 17:27, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems logical,  — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 22:45, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks Martin. Deutsch-Türkçe-English (talk) 14:54, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable Bulgarian Turks 

message: The Bulgarian articles are not meant as as a source that Yankov's theory is not proven. They're meant as an illustration that the prevailing opinion in Bulgaria links the attacks with TNLF. Kostja (talk) 21:17, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: This is quite strange you write: "though this has not been proven and is not a widely accepted theory" and then you put a a "frognews" source and then you say this source has nothing to do with your statement? You can't do this, I have told you many times this is source abuse. Either you put a source behind your statement or remove it.Hittit (talk) 22:56, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Millitant attacks 

message: According to this source there are 700,000 Bulgarians of Turkish origin living in Turkey.  Deutsch-Türkçe-English (talk) 13:01, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bulgarian Turks in Turkey  

message: I would like to have some explanation from the editor who tagged the New York Times article on the attrocities against the Turks during the Russo-Turkish War as unreliable. I will also request an admins opinion on this tag. Hittit (talk) 13:54, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  New York Times tagged as unreliable source? 

message: Does anybody know how the population was 750k in 2001 and 580k in 2011? Was this via assimilation, return to Turkey, EU migration or other? Tátótát (talk) 02:31, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Recent population decline

message: It's  totally wrong even the content of it is about Turkish.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.171.154.27 (talk) 20:36, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kurdish dialects? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: There's been some edit warring over the inclusion of Romani in the languages section of this article's infobox over the past days, so I'm raising this for discussion. I've tried to check what the sources say. At present, three are cited. The first is a Press TV video and I therefore have doubts about reliability, the second is a broken link and the third is quite a long document, so a page number would be helpful to aid verification. Cordless Larry (talk) 10:37, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi User:Cordless Larry, I was invited  to participate in this discussion, possibly because I like to get to the bottom of things. I skimmed through this document  which you listed and found some useful and interesting information in the first paragraph at the top of page 21. I was also sent this article  which although google-translate does not seem to do much justice to does clarify the issue touched upon at the top of page 21 of that long document. The broken link you mentioned does still exist at least in the wayback machine here  and turns although specifically about Rom people does seem to re-iterate what is mentioned in the other documents. Hope I have been of some help. YuHuw (talk) 19:48, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for your input, . I would encourage others to do the same, rather than continuing to edit war. Cordless Larry (talk) 19:58, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: You are most welcome. My sentiments exactly. YuHuw (talk) 04:09, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

text: That Bulgarian Turks speak Turkish and Bulgarian is rather self-evident. That they speak Romani needs a source. No-one has mentioned Greek, Albanian etc. Please be serious. --T*U (talk) 17:01, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: It is problematic to able to say "self-evident". Because it is a fact that a considerable amount of Roms of Bulgaria declare themselves as Turks on popular census thanks to democracy in the country just like in the case of some Torbešs Republic of Macedonia, see Plasnica, a Turkish slavophone town. Do you speak or understand Turkish or Bulgarian? If yes, have look at this Usta Millet, here (Millet], and of course here too. I am sorry to spend your time, but it's so important to create a scientifical encyclopedia and I think personally I am serious enough. Manaviko (talk) 20:41, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: If you can provide a reliable source for Bulgarian Turks speaking Roma, fine! Then add it. If not, do not add it. As for serious, I was referring to your remark about Greek, Albanian etc. --T*U (talk) 20:45, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Romani language 

message: Copied from my user talk page. --T*U (talk) 08:46, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: That Bulgarian Turks speak Turkish and Bulgarian is rather self-evident. That they speak Romani needs a source. No-one has mentioned Greek, Albanian etc. Please be serious. --T*U (talk) 17:01, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: It is problematic to able to say "self-evident". Because it is a fact that a considerable amount of Roms of Bulgaria declare themselves as Turks on popular census thanks to democracy in the country just like in the case of some Torbešs Republic of Macedonia, see Plasnica, a Turkish slavophone town. Do you speak or understand Turkish or Bulgarian? If yes, have look at this Usta Millet, here (Millet], and of course here too. I am sorry to spend your time, but it's so important to create a scientifical encyclopedia and I think personally I am serious enough. Manaviko (talk) 20:41, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: If you can provide a reliable source for Bulgarian Turks speaking Roma, fine! Then add it. If not, do not add it. As for serious, I was referring to your remark about Greek, Albanian etc. --T*U (talk) 20:45, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Need source 

message: Should this be removed or introduced: ?  Thoughts?87.227.209.36 (talk) 21:52, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Genetic studies 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The heading Turkish Press in Bulgaria 1879–1945 contains a reference.  The MOS indicates to attempt to avoid putting references in headings.  However, I'm not sure where in the section to move the reference, and it isn't clear what this reference is supporting.  RJFJR (talk) 01:00, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reference in heading 

message: So we have: Turks in North Macedonia, Turks in Romania (not Romanian Turks), Turks of Western Thrace, Turks of the Dodecanese islands (not Greek Turks), Turks in Kosovo etc. Even Bulgarians use this formula (Bulgarians in Romania, Bulgarians in Macedonia) and/or slighly different one, Bulgarians of Asia Minor). Same for minorities in Turkey: Kurds in Turkey, Circassians in Turkey etc.
Then why this page's name is Bulgarian Turks? It should be Turks in Bulgaria.--Kessarevo (talk) 19:16, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Please see the discussion at Talk:Bulgarian Turks#Requested move 7 November 2015. Cordless Larry (talk) 19:26, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

text: It's a proper term. Beshogur (talk) 20:17, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

text: Please see WP:COMMONNAME and the results here. It would only be appropriate to rename those other articles to Turkish Circassians and Romanian Bulgarians if those are the names most commonly used in reliable sources (I haven't checked). Cordless Larry (talk) 21:45, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

text: Thank you, Cordless Larry! But when I clik on the link that you had posted I see "About 2,310 results". But when I write Turks in Bulgaria , "About 64,400 results" appear, icluding Turks in Bulgaria and Turks of Bulgaria. I don't know how much this method is reliable. Because, for example M. Maeva's book "Bulgarian Turks and the European Union" appears when I search for the "Turks in Bulgaria". I'm sorry, I'm pretty new here, and I (still) don't know how many things work, but I'm not the first one who talks about this issue. I guess that It can't be changed :(
--Kessarevo (talk) 22:18, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: "Turks in Bulgaria" gets 1,910 results in Google Scholar. It's true that it does get more results in a general Google search, but that includes lots of non-reliable sources. It's difficult to tell which is the most common term overall, but given that the article covers Bulgarian Turks who aren't actually in Bulgaria, I think that adds to the case for using the former term. Cordless Larry (talk) 08:09, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bulgarian Turks vs Turks in Bulgaria 

message: As a newcomer to the discussion on the (disputed) current title "Bulgarian Turks" (but certainly no newcomer to such complicated linguistic, ethnic political discussions), and having had a quick look at the history of these discussions (included those on the suggested moves) I would like to start a new discussion on a possible change of title to "Turks of Bulgaria".
For me, it's clear that "Turks in Bulgaria" is not a good alternative because it excludes a significant section of this (sub-)ethnic group currently living outside Bulgaria.
It's true that, in English, as proper nouns are converted to adjectives in such a way that country names like Australia, Bulgaria, Turkey, Germany etc. become Australian, Bulgarian, Turkish, German etc. and the resultant adjective means "belonging to or relating to" that country as well as referring a specific ethnic group which is dominant in that country. As a result, it's common practice for English-speaking people to apply this simple rule to all countries.
However, whereas the words "British", "American" (or perhaps more properly "U.S."), "Canadian", "Australian" etc. wouldn't cause any such discussions, it becomes somewhat problematic (and even illogical!) when the name of a country is based on the name of an ethnic group which is dominant in that country. And it especially becomes unacceptable for members of a minority ethnic group there - especially so if they still have some unresolved problems with the majority/dominant ethnic group.
IMHO, the English-speaking people should better stop using this method of making adjectives out of nouns in such cases in order not to seem insensitive to the plight of such ethnic minorities. ;-)
Unless we are talking about dual citizenship or mixed ethnic identity (e.g. someone's father is from one ethnic group, and the mother is from the other) I don't think it's appropriate to say "German Turks" (instead of "Turks of Germany", or "Turks in Germany" in this specific case), "Turkish Kurds" (instead of "Kurds of Turkey"), "Turkish Armenians" (instead of "Armenians of Turkey"), "Greek Turks" (instead of "Turks of Greece"), "Turkish Greeks" (instead of "Greeks of Turkey"), or "Bulgarian Turks" (instead of "Turks of Bulgaria") unless we accept it as appropriate to call Scottish people "English Scots", considering that outsiders simply call the "United Kingdom" or "Great Britain" as "England" in their own language.
The fact that this has been the norm in English for a long time, and that search results are very much in favor of this pattern should not be used as a pretext to continue this wrong practice.Veritas.vos.Liberabit.58 (talk) 10:24, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Bulgarian Turks is a proper name. Beshogur (talk) 10:30, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bulgarian Turks vs. Turks of Bulgaria