Talk:Russia (disambiguation)

message: Survived: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Russia (disambiguation). `'mikka (t) 00:26, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Afd

message: Before the fall of the Soviet Union, there where millions of written references in billions of printed copies referring to "Russias" other than the Russian Federation. It was common to refer to the Soviet Union simply as “Russia”. The distinction between Rus' and Russia, so carefully maintained the article on the etymology of Rus and derivatives was largely unknown outside academic circles. Thousands of these references are inherited by Wikipedia articles.
I believe, that for historical articles the reference should be to the “Russia” or Russian State of the time period. In some cases it may be advisable to replace Russia with the name of the corresponding article. In some cases it may be better to leave the visible link as “Russia” and disambiguate the hidden link to the appropriate article. (This comment naturally applies to all countries with long histories. See for example Saxony (disambiguation))
Disambiguating may result in a situation where the user presses the link labeled “Russia” and arrives at Novgorod Republic without really knowing why he got there.
A remedy could be labeling the disambiguated page with the template , rendered as something like
:The subject of this article was previously also known as Russia. For other uses, see Russia (disambiguation)
===Some Examples===
* Agatha, wife of Edward the Exile appeared on DYK today. The article states ”that the mother of St. Margaret was of Russian royal blood”. I have disambiguated this to Rus' (people).
* The article on Viborg blast stated that ”Vyborg Castle when it was besieged by Russians”. I have disambiguated this to Muscovy.
-- Petri Krohn 09:06, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disambiguating references to "Russia" 

message: * Agatha, wife of Edward the Exile appeared on DYK today. The article states ”that the mother of St. Margaret was of Russian royal blood”. I have disambiguated this to Rus' (people).
* The article on Viborg blast stated that ”Vyborg Castle when it was besieged by Russians”. I have disambiguated this to Muscovy.
-- Petri Krohn 09:06, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Some Examples

message: Petri, your obstinate edits are in contradiction of WP:DAB. There is no ambiguity between Russia and Rugians. Noone would search for Novgorod Republic under Russia. You've been told as much on AfD. Removal of such entries was the reason why the article escaped deletion. You should check Italy (disambiguation) to see how disambiguation pages are usually done. By the way, there is no Germany (disambiguation), although its this country's name that needs the heaviest disambiguation efforts (following your logic). --Ghirla -трёп- 09:26, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In your own article from friday, Agatha, wife of Edward the Exile you have translated Rugorum as Russia, (or was it René Jetté?) A use of the word "Russia" in the English language can thus be a reference to Rugians in the original source. -- Petri Krohn 19:37, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I asked the opinion of wikipedians well versed in WP policies on WP:VPP. Here's the answer: One can create something like "list of Russian states throughout history". It could be linked to from the DAB page but even that is not really part of the intended use of DAB pages. Since your efforts do not conform to WP guidelines, your list of historical Russian states will be split from the disambiguation page. --Ghirla -трёп- 06:23, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I did notice that you where seeking support elsewhere, but I have not had the time to responde there. I do contest your conclusions and will respond in time. -- Petri Krohn 09:33, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[WP:DAB]] 

message: Why is there no mention of russia leather? 195.92.40.49 (talk) 13:10, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Leather 

message: ====Galicia–Volhynia====
The article Kingdom of Galicia–Volhynia supports the usage of "Rus(s)ia" for the place at the time, so this entry should be added back. – Uanfala (talk) 02:30, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Individual historic states

message: The article Kingdom of Galicia–Volhynia supports the usage of "Rus(s)ia" for the place at the time, so this entry should be added back. – Uanfala (talk) 02:30, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Galicia–Volhynia

message: I've had a look at the references given in this previous revision and the ones presented at the start of this thread above.
The cited passage (p. 105) from Plokhy's Unmaking Imperial Russia  refers (not in Plokhy's own words, but in citations of early 20th-century historians, esp. Matvei Lyubavski) to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth as "Lithuanian Rus", "Lithuan Russian State" and "Western Rus", but not as just "Russia". Similarly, Rambaud's book on p. 238  uses only "Lithuanian Russia", while reserving the term "Russia" for Muscovy. On p. 186 of History of Pagan Europe , the phrase used is again only "Lithuanin Russia". Page 164 of Dawisha cited earlier in the thread  is actually in a paper by Prazauskas (Dawisha is only the series editor). It doesn't refer to the Grand Duchy as "Russia", but merely describes it as being regarded by early 20th-century Russian historians as a Lithuanian-Russian state.
So far there's no reference for the unqualified "Russia" being used to refer to the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. Unless such a source is found, we only have the phrase "Lithuanian Russia", which is a partial title match (WP:PTM). PTMs, if at all included on a dab page, would normally go in the "See also" section (MOS:DABSEEALSO). Still, I can see an argument being made to the effect that this topic is sufficiently similar to the group of topics listed in the main body of the dab page and that it may be best for reader navigation if it's placed under the same heading. So, if someone adds an entry for Lithuania, I won't object (as long as it's made clear what Russia-related name it's known under). – Uanfala (talk) 02:30, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Lithuania

message: Grand Duchy of Moscow supports the usage, and so does, among others, the Rambaud passage cited in "Lithuania" above. – Uanfala (talk) 02:30, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Muscovy

message: No mention in the aricle Novgorod Republic. – Uanfala (talk) 02:30, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Novgorod

message: The article Rus' Khaganate doesn't seem to have any supporting mention. – Uanfala (talk) 02:30, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Rus' Khaganate

message: The only thing that I can see in the article Ruthenian Voivodeship is the Latin name Palatinatus russiae, which may suggest that the name "Russia" may have been used, but ideally we'd need something a bit more definitive. – Uanfala (talk) 02:30, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title: Ruthenian Voivodeship