Wikipedia talk:China-related topics notice board/2005

message: If you're interested in working on how Chinese surnames should be presented on Wikipedia, please comment at Talk:Chinese surname#Chinese surnames on Wikipedia. Thanks.  — Instantnood 13:52, Apr 5, 2005 (UTC)
: User:Jiang has started a WikiProject for Chinese surnames. — Instantnood 13:21, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Chinese surnames on Wikipedia

message: I have started the yunzi translation.  All are welcome to help.
Mgmei 19:06, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yunzi 

message: General Hsu Yung-Ch'ang was the representative of the Republic of China on September 2, 1945, at signing of Instrument of Surrender of Japan that ended World War II. Is there any more know about him? I have been unable to find anything more in English.  Anyone able to help expand the entry? --Tony Hecht 20:17, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hsu Yung-Ch'ang 

message: One of the many pages dealing with Chinese torture is up for a VfD.  Chinese box (torture) has been nominated.  I don't know if anyone is following it but the last one Chinese Raping Chair went down unopposed.  If anyone would like to have a look please follow the links Chinese box (torture) Lao Wai 19:30, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chinese box (torture) 

message: Sun Yat-sen is now nominated as a featured article candidate. However, Ive raised some objections that the nominators cannot answer to. Additional input is needed there.--Jiang 08:27, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Sun Yat-sen is now a featured article. Hurray! -- Миборовский U|T|C|E 19:10, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sun Yat-sen 

message: I think Emperor Wu of Han has what it takes to be a featured articles and can be nominated soon, but the text needs some cleaning up. The English seems a bit stilted (such as having too many sentences starting with "he") and needs some stylistic edits. If someone can get this done, then we can nominate this to be a FAC.--Jiang 05:36, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Not yet, I think. Still has lots of elementary grammar mistakes, as of right now rather unpresentable. I did some copyediting and changed all instances of "created" to "made" or "crowned". There might be many more, but I don't have the time to copyedit the whole thing... :( --Miborovsky  03:22, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It's quite good now, although minor points can be ironed out.  A worthy FAC. Mandel 11:38, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Han Wudi ready for FAC? 

message: As you all know, proliferation of Jinyong (Louis Cha) articles on Wikipedia is causing some headaches.  Some non-Chinese-reading Wikipedians are complaining about the quality and materials of which these articles are based on.  Basically they are just longish recanting of plot and characters from the books; there is no attempt at "encyclopedic" writing which are helpful to research.  Any output on how these articles can be improved will be greatly appreciated.  Maybe we should start something like a manual of edit of sorts for wuxia articles? Mandel 11:36, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd be willing to help with this task, though I haven't read all of Jinyong's books and am not completely familiar with all the recurring characters. I think one of the most difficult issues would be the translation from Chinese names to English. Given that editors on these articles (presumably) read the Chinese version, their translations might be different from the "authorised" translations. Even among "authorised" and widespread translations, they could be very different. This of course is caused by the nuances of language, and inevitably widens the gap between literal and liberal translations. A manual of style would be good, but I think we need to clear a number of kinks before it can be implemented. --Miborovsky  20:09, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think the problem lies in Chinese Wikipedians' unfamiliarity in writing "literature articles". Mere regurgitation of plot and characters is not good enough.  If so, the articles on the four classical novels won't be so bare.  We have to set some guidelines for these "specialist" wuxia writers (I know of quite a few) to conform to Wikipedia's tone and writing style - as well as what ought or ought not be included.  I've received quite a few exasperated complaints from non-Chinese Wikipedians and I've been trying desperately to mend "holes" in them; however, one person's resources, intelligence, time are limited.  This is made worse by the fact that wuxia articles are one-in-a-thousand in English-language encyclopedias.  It's a difficult topic, and we need discussion here. Mandel 17:43, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortunately I have absolutely no experience in writing literature articles, much less wuxia. So I'm just waiting for the Bible of How to Write Wuxia Articles to fall from the sky. :p --Miborovsky  08:14, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Wuxia and Jinyong articles

message: For months now, User:Sarcelles has been starting poor-quality stubs or non-notables for the purpose of propagandizing on the plight of the Falun Gong. His grammar and spelling is generally poor, and he inserts dubious data from dubious sources into his articles. He's apparently been doing the same thing on some other language editions (de:, fr:, it:, and nds:). While the few users who've had to deal with him so far (User:Herr Klugbeisser, User:Abstrakt, User:Miborovsky, and me) have nothing against the Falun Gong, we all agree that his editing is a nuisance and that something should be done.
The fact, though, is that we don't quite know what, and we are in need of more opinions, especially on what concrete actions, if possible, should be taken to end his continuous torrent of edits. So for anyone who's interested in the issue, please come to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Chinese cities, which documents all of his dubious edits so far, as well as the relevant discussions.
So if you're interested, please contribute to the discussion! -- ran (talk) 05:10, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[User:Sarcelles]] 

message: I've been assigned this small china-geo-stub by the Wikipedia:Cleanup Taskforce and have attempted to clean it up as best I can; the Wikipedia page is the top-ranking search result on Google so my ability to find additional information that might allow me to expand this county is a fairly limited as of right now. It doesn't seem all that highly notable to me, and I've yet to find a source confirming the population figure offered there (which was contributed by its anonymous creator at the article's inception), but I'm going to roll with it for the moment. I was wondering particularly if someone on this board could give me a quick assist with the Simplified/Traditional/Pinyin readings of the place's name, as I don't speak or read any Chinese myself. Thanks, MC MasterChef 14:47, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Qingxi]] 

message: Could have left it at the respective talk pages except they aren't really read.  Suggest Mandopop be merged with Mandarin pop, or better still, Mandopop be simply deleted.  As a term "Mandopop" throws up a mere 852 references on Google, and many of them actually links to Wikipedia.  Wikipedia shouldn't encourage terms that are obviously never used or freshly coined here.  Discuss here, and if there's consensus I'll bring it up to VfD. Mandel 16:31, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Not too sure if the word Mandopop is popular on the Internet. In Hong Kong it appears on signs in music shops, like HMV. — Instantnood 07:21, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: In that case maybe a redirect might be better. Mandel 05:34, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Mandarin pop]] merged with [[Mandopop]]?

message: I have a current dispute with User:Manchurian Tiger over the transliteration of the name Qinghua University.  While the name Tsinghua is used in the college logo and badge, I argued that the pinyin transliteration Qinghua should not be excluded from mention in the article proper itself.  He refused, stating very flatly it is wrong, it's a misspelling, and have no place in a proper encyclopedia. (Quote from my talk page: There is no such a school named "Qinghua" University in this world. Period. Please respect a school and its alumni for the way they spell their school's name. Can you spell Oxford as Oksford University?)  I retorted by stating prestigious references like Columbia Encyclopedia and Encyclopedia Britannica uses both transliterations (note I'm not favoring axing Tsinghua transliteration, but the inclusion of both).  As well as Xinhua press, China's state-owned paper.  Sounds like a ultra-conservative approach to me.  I'd like to hear what others think about this debate. Mandel 03:21, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Tsinghua should be regarded as the name of the university written in the English language, while Qīnghuá should be regarded as the pronunciation guide written in pinyin, a romanization system of the Chinese language. -- ran (talk) 05:58, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: No one says Tsinghua ought not be included, but placing Qinghua just in pinyin isn't good enough.  I know lots of people who don't check pinyin.  If you don't bold it, make it clear, people will wonder if they got to the right article.  Furthermore, precedents have already been set that when a name has enough people using it, it should be mentioned.  See for instance Nobel Prize in Economics.  I don't consider 76,200 Google hits a small number, neither do I consider the fact the official Chinese press Xinghua press uses Qinghua something trivial.  Furthermore, there's nothing wrong with using a different transliteration. Mandel 17:55, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: User:Manchurian Tiger keeps blanking off my discussions in his talk page (I guess he thinks he's entitled to because it's his talk page).  Is this allowed?  Any policies against this? Mandel 18:05, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I think users can do whatever they want on their talkpages as long as it doesn't violate protocols. -- Миборовский U|T|C|E 19:10, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

text: No they can't. See here: []. -- ran (talk) 23:20, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Tsinghua / [[Qinghua University]]

message: Yep that's right. Shortly after Flowerofchivalry slinked into nowhere, another guy has appeared to contest the page. This time, with a spunkier username and more ludicrous claim. User:Fair china claims 49 people were killed in Massacre. As of right now (and I assume into eternity), it is unsupported. I've reverted all of his POV edits, but I need to go to sleep now so I would appreciate it if someone kept an eye or two out. Cheers. -- Миборовский U|T|C|E 09:45, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh and keep an eye out for List of massacres too, or even better his edit history. I refuse to call it contributions. -- Миборовский U|T|C|E 09:47, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Nanking Massacre]], Round n 

message: I've put this article on a forum on AfD here. Please chip me with your thoughts on this. -- Миборовский U|T|C|E 05:25, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[China History Forum]] 

message: I think the Chiang Kai-shek article is almost ready for a featured article nomination, but I would like some input on its neutrality and accuracy. In particular, attention must be given to the number of deaths for which he was responsible. I am afraid that the biography leaves out the killings he ordered as part of the "White Terror", while the legacy section might have exaggerated it. It might be better if we could assign deaths to specific incidents.--Jiang 09:09, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chiang Kai-shek FAC 

message: Fortunately, this time it's not about whether it happened (though it might go that direction) but whether a photograph that contains explicit and disturbing and gory content should be included or removed because it's too disrespectful/shocking/emotion-mongering. (Is that even a word?) Your expert opinion would be appreciated. Full-length discussion []. -- Миборовский U|T|C|E 06:41, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  OK... more [[Talk:Nanking Massacre]] debates 

message: This article claims that Yao Tianyun (姚天云) is a hero in Chinese mythology, but it's been AFD'd, could someone here comment? Kappa 01:39, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I've googled in Chinese. Appears to be a hoax. -- ran (talk) 01:48, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  AFD [[Tian Yun Yao]] 

message: Hi,
Sorry that this is probably not the right place to ask this, but I was wondering if anyone here could briefly outline any policy differences between en: and zh:? (I have just started using zh: and my Chinese is not great, plus the vocab is so specific.) I have noticed there seems to be no standard usage of simplified or traditional characters; I'll read an article in simplified and see its categories in traditional. What is the policy? They just create redirects to the simplified version? And do they have different policies re: images, ie. they allow fair use? --pfctdayelise 23:59, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You are free to write in either simplified or traditional, and the automatic conversion system will convert it to your preferred system (set under "Preferences"). There are bugs in the system, and a page to ask for fixes; you can find out more about the system here. As for images, yes, zh: does allow fair use. -- ran (talk) 00:41, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  policies on zh: 

message: Since zh.wikipedia has been banned (mofos), and lots of people on this noticeboard are located in the Mainland, who here can still participate? -- Миборовский U|T|C|E|Chugoku Banzai! 23:15, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Roll call 

message: Can someone romanize the names provided in Chinese characters at Control Yuan into Wade-Giles (or if you can somehow find the variation most commonly used, provide that instead...)? --Jiang 10:16, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Need romanization help