Talk:Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day

message: The central problem of this holiday for many Quebecois is that this festivity symbolizes the celebration of "pure laine"(literally translated as "pure wool"), a term used to describe someone born in Quebec and directly descended from European blood. [28] [29] The Saint Jean Baptiste holiday focuses on both linguistic and racial purity thereby alienating the growing numbers of non-white, non-French and many French speaking Quebecois (of all origins). [30] However, recent journalism on this subject has shown that the younger generations of franco Quebecois find this issue of language a "non-issue", while others hold this idea of "French only" as essential to Quebecois identity. [31] This is a highly contentious subject which few discuss openly; yet the day before the 2008 celebration, Stéphane Gendron, an established francophone radio presenter, questioned if this holiday was not more of a polemic than a celebration. On the television show, "L'avocat du diable", Gendron said "we are a people of liars", indicating the 35%-40% rate of unemployment for "our Arab colleagues" adding: "We are a nation of racists!" accusing the Quebecois leadership of demagogery by exaggerating the language issues in the province in order to avoid discussing the real and more immediate issues. [32]
This paragraph has been continually deleted by Mathieugp and I would like other input as to the validity of this information. I have cited, academic texts and newspapers which have looked into the polemic behind this festival.  I would prefer input from those outside the country since it would seem people here are unable to maintain their calm nor respect for other wiki users. Cheers!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Disfasia (talk • contribs) 16:33, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: For a more accurate account of how and why the above paragraph was removed by two different administrators, and User:Disfasia received not one but two final warnings by the same two administrators, see User talk:Disfasia and Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring . Sorry to all. I know you have better things to do, especially in July. ;-) -- Mathieugp (talk) 23:02, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

text: Well, something weird is that your account has been created today (July, 20). Of course, you may have followed the discussion with an IP account, but I don't understand why you would create an account only to talk here and on 's talkpage (contributions). I'm wondering... you may be 's clone. Anyway,  explained everything above. We cannot add content not adhering to the neutral point of view to Wikipedia. And saying things like "English speakers are not welcome here" and "the representation here on this wiki reflects that same type of harassment that many living in the province feel" means that you are trying to fight for a group's point of view (here the English Canadians) and are trying to put turn this to political. This should not be turned to political (English VS French). We're not in Québec, neither in Canada, we're on Wikipedia- where the origin of people doesn't matter anymore. Please don't bring "life issues" on Wikipedia. Sincerely, Jimmytalk 17:12, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Let's Discuss this information 

message: I've noted your edits on :National Holiday (Quebec). I don't know if you're Canadian, but I can tell you that in my experience, English-speaking Canadians refer to it as "Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day" almost exclusively. Nor is it just common usage - English language media use the same term:  and . It's as much English as Deja vu or Samizdat. As it happens, I am Catholic, so I do use and hear the term "Nativity of Saint John the Baptist", but I do so purely in relation to relgious celebrations, not the socio-cultural celebrations the article is primarily about. Gabrielthursday (talk) 19:18, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: If you notice, both of the articles you mention are talking about celebrations of French culture, the celebration it'self (Nativity of St John The Baptiste) is of a religious nature that has been adapted in French Canadian culture as patriotic, just like the Wikipedia article says. The section in question states that the celebration, which was and still is called the Nativity of Saint John the Baptist, in English, has been since used in Québec/French Canada. Not the "Saint-Jean Baptiste" day. The current celebrations around French Canadian culture are yes absolutely called "La Saint-Jean", and it's variations, but the feast day is still the "Nativity of Saint John the Baptiste"--Notwillywanka (talk) 01:01, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

text: Only when referring to French Canadian Heritage celebrations, and/or patriotic (aka Nationalist) celebrations. When referring to the feast day that is the origin of the patriotic celebration, it's "Nativity of Saint John the Baptiste", that is the English name, that is what French Canadians started celebrating as our Patriotic Day, and only when used in the context of French Canadian "patronage" should it be called "Saint-Jean Baptiste" day.--Notwillywanka (talk) 01:01, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for your expanded explanation, I think we aren't as far apart as I had thought. I wouldn't make such a strong distinction between the feast day and the cultural/heritage/patriotic celebrations that grew up around it. Saint-Jean-Baptist Day to me includes both the religious aspect and the more civic-cultural aspects. However, I would like to propose a compromise: the section should still be headed "Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day", but the first term in the paragraph should be as you had it, the Nativity of St. John the Baptist. I think that initial reference is mainly to the religious celebration prior to its growth in patriotic and civic significance. I hope that sounds reasonable to you, I'm going to make the edit. Gabrielthursday (talk) 07:31, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  English is as English does 

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thread_title:  External links modified August 2015 

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replies: text: This one is a 404 in the archive. Walter Görlitz (talk) 01:31, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified February 2016 

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message: The name of the page is wrong. It should be named "Québec National Day" instead of "Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day" because the Québec government officially changed the name of this holiday in 1977. The holiday isn't religious anymore. Also, considering this page is a direct traduction of the "Fête nationale du Québec" page, it should respect the official name of the holiday. 
Some could argue that French-speaking people outside of Québec still celebrate the original "Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day", but this is not an issue since another article already exists separetely about the original St-Jean eve (in both french and english).
--Goldagent (talk) 01:04, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: The name in English is correct as the celebration in Quebec is only one part of the events on the day. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:15, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  Did you read my comment ? What are your arguments regarding my own arguments ? Why keeping the "St-Jean-Baptiste" name for this page while there is already another page for the non-Québec celebration ?
--Goldagent (talk) 00:13, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  I did. I do not have to respond to your points as they are not the :WP:COMMONNAME in English. Take a look an English calendar for instance. If it is listed, it will be listed using this name, like this one. I know what its name is in French, and the French project can use whatever term they want. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:24, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name of the Holiday must be changed accordingly to it's real name