Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Warhammer 40,000/Notability

message: I think as a subset of notability, we should determine which references are 'superior' to other references. Twice now (from my personal recollection) there have been instances where Black Library novels and older Codexes have contradicted newer Codexes, the fall of Caliban (Dark Angels) and the number of Imperial Fist Second Founding Chapters (the status of the Soul Drinkers). -- Saberwyn 10:46, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I do believe there has been one mentioned by GW... I'll see if I can find it... --Falcorian (talk) 16:12, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Canon levels 

message: In regards to both the "2 character limit" and the Main 40k Page issue, I'd like to say this:
While more clear, I disagree with it. I do not think there should be a strick "X people get pages, Y people get mentions on the Army page, and Z people are put in a list of minor characters. I disagree for the following reasons:
#"Most important" is very debatable.
#It severly limits an editors options.
I think the ideal solution would be to come up with critria which a character must meet to go ont he main page, which should be more strict than what is required to have their own page, which should be more strict than what is required to be bundled in with the army, which should be more strict than what is required to be thrown on a list of minor characters. I think if something like this can be accomplished, it would greatly reduce arguments. Hope that idea was clear... --Falcorian (talk) 21:17, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not particularly happy with them as criteria either, but they're the best criteria I've yet seen proposed :-) Cheers --Pak21 10:13, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: How many characters from each army... And whatnot

message: A lot of the iffy areas in this seemed to be related to book characters - maybe we should be more specific in the guidlines - eg they must be a main character in relation to the storyline and a major series is a triology or more (with the possibility for some exception eg. ravenor?) - would appreciate other views? Lowris 22:25, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Black Library

message: Are characters mentioned only in the Imperial Armour series notable? Or put another way, which "rulebooks" as mentioned in the first notability critertion do we think are significant? I note this edit. Cheers --Pak21 12:50, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would say yes, although my one concern is that we'd be flooded with them. I don't own any of the large FW books, so I can't guess at how many characters are covered in them. --Falcorian (talk) 18:32, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Rulebooks (IMO) should be limited to Games Workshop produced publications, not that of subsidy games. Imperial Armour (at this time) has only provided rules for five or six low-key Imperial Guard commanders. -- Saberwyn 20:43, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

text: Anybody else have any views here? We seem to be slightly split here. Cheers --Pak21 10:00, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Imperial Armour characters 

message: What about "Old One Eye" and "Red Terror"? I've allowed their stay of mention in the Tyranid article, and they both meet all criteria to deserve their own pages. There's just one thing:
*Old One Eye and the Red Terror were not special characters, and did not require the opponent's permission for use. (Note: I talk on their behalf under passive voice)
If they count, I will make their own pages, but if not, then I will refrain. Need voice! Colonel Marksman 16:09, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Obviously stay in my opinion. --Pak21 16:13, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Tyranids, as a species, can't have special characters. These are the closest they can get, so I'm inclined to make them 'honorary' SCs for the purpouse of Wikipedia. -- Saberwyn 20:21, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Tyranid "Noble Characters"

message: I have:
* An overall page of general guidelines
* A list that defines different types of articles on differt subjects
:* For Armies "Army Page"
:* For Technology "Technology Page" (equivalent to "Weapons, Vehicles, Equipment Page", or, "WVE page")
:* For Notable Planets "Notable Planet Page"
:* (User:Pak21 already made guidelones for notable characters, but a link to that is included)
* A statement of purpose for my guidelines
* Left room for more guidelines to come
--Nothing offical will be done with the guidelines (moved or put to use) until several Wikipedians involved in the Warhammer 40,000 project have verified it.--
Colonel Marksman's Proposed Guidelines
Colonel Marksman 20:57, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Suggested 40k Article Guidelines

message: A Chapter Master is one of the most powerful individuals in the Imperium and can decide the fate of worlds. Numerous Chapter masters (such as the ones that are missing) will damn well affect the universe as they each command 1000+ Space marines for a total of 1 million + marines. Chapter Master should be a heading just like "Appearance" or "Combat Doctrine" in every space marine chapter wiki article.--Jesse 20:34, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Please see previous discussion between Jesse, Pak21 and myself at Talk:Imperial Fists#Notable Character 3 -- saberwyn 01:46, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

text: The main trouble I see here is what are you actually going to write about each of the Chapter Masters? What exactly has Pugh of the Imperial Fists (or any of the Chapter Masters not already listed) done? As for the missing chapters, we can't say anything on those without it being original research. Cheers --Pak21 09:51, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Chapter Masters

message: It is worth mentioning that much of the fiction in the 40K universe predates the "Black Library" trademark.  Are these books to be excluded simply because they are old? Of course, if information contained in a book is directly superseded, that's one thing.  But there's a wealth of information on the Imperial Fists from the book Space Marine (1993)[1], for example, and none of it has yet been contradicted.  It contains a lot of information about the character and activities of Lord Pugh, Chaplain Lo Chang and Librarian Grenzstein (among others).  Surely these characters deserve a mention.  If they're not to be included in the Fists' own page, why bother including a COMPARITIVELY MINOR character like Sergeant . . err, Captain Lysander?!
Note to anyone who wishes to take this further: I read what was said about the small amount of written information available regarding chapter masters.  I submit that we have two paragraphs of canon information about Lysander, and about three pages about Pugh.  Your point?--Johno 09:22, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you have a concrete suggestion for how you think the guidelines should be changed? Cheers --Pak21 11:02, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Screw the Black Library. Pre-Black Library, Index Astartes and Codexes are where the real information is. So much garbage comes out of the Black Library (ie: Soul Drinker series/Ben Counter's flagrant lack of respect for the second founding FINITE list of Chapters) GW/BL Novels used to be strictly monitored to mirror game canon/backstory. Now anyone can write a book and make a mockery of the Intelluctual Property (Soul Drinkers and Wolfblade to name a couple).That being said there are exceptions, such as Space Marine by Ian Watson. The reason this is a classic exception is because it is obvious that the Index Astartes article on Imperial Fists is based almost entirely on this novel. Tread carefully within the Black library brothers, as it is full of deception! The fact that the whole Soul Drinkers bit even made it into the IF wiki article is an absolute disgrace.--Jesse 11:26, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: While I'd personally love to agree with you on that, there is at least one statement from a high-ranking GW employee (Marc Gascoigne, 6th post in that page) that all products with an official 40k logo on them are equally canon. What this means when they contradict each other is a good question... Cheers --Pak21 11:41, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re: Black library 

message: Should the Chapter Master of each Space Marine chapter be added to the list of notable characters? Please add your opinion below as either Add or Do not add with an optional one sentence explanation, and sign your comment with ~~~~. Poll closes 10:14, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chapter Master straw poll 

message: Should The Primarches be added? ta,BT2 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.116.42.164 (talk • contribs) .
:Are you talking about on the main page or on the chapter/legion pages?  If the former, no, they shouldn't. If the latter, they receive extensive mentions already in each article; I see no value in adding them to the list of notable characters as well. Cheers --Pak21 01:09, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Primarches