Talk:Initial D/Archive 1

message: I've spent some time this evening doing a fairly massive editing job on this page, correcting numerous run-on sentences, redundant passages, grammatical errors, and generally improving the readability.  It still needs work and there are a few things I need to go back and add links for once I check on the relevant pages. Hopefully this can be a step towards getting this page up to the level it should be, there's a lot of great information here but it needs refining.  I invite anyone so inclined to help me out.  -RedMageCWD 01:54, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: More cleanup

message: First paragraph claims Mt. Akina is fictional, as are many of the places in the story, and that they are based on real places.
While the towns may not be real (Takumi is supposed to be from "S Town"; I don't think the Japanese are that unimaginative), I'm 100% certain that Mt. Akina is quite real (better known as Mt. Haruna), as is Mt. Akagi, Myogi, Irohazaka (which is truly one-way, both up and down), as well as Usui.  Why would someone think that these locations are not real?  The roads may not be 100% accurate in Initial D, but they are similar enough to pass for real (even including the early-ending railguards that Kai used to jump the turn).  In fact, there are pictures of these passes in the mountains that are almost exactly what you see in the book (or show). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.243.238.204 (talk • contribs) .
See http://www.pref.gunma.jp/english/nature/index.htm
:Agreed, I'll make the appropriate changes.--Oni Ookami AlfadorTalk|@ 06:44, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Akina is Fake? 

message: I recently made a large scale reversion of EnthusiastFRANCE's recent edits to the article.  I will explain why each section was reverted in detail here:
* Line 66: The "D" is not necessarily for drift in the purest sense.  It is stated by Takahashi Ryosuke that D, as well as "the initial" has another meaning in his discussions with Matsumoto.
* Line 83: The line breaks around are there for formatting to keep the image from overindenting the movie section.
* Line 93: Special stage does not need to be linked because it does not have its own page, and is explained in detail below.
* Line 101: A lot of unecessary information, most of which is trivial and not benificial to the article.  This is not just a Toge thing but a street racer/tuner euphemism in general.  Perhaps a much smaller abbreviated statement will do if you really think its necessary.
* Line 172: References to other games with Eight-Sixes in them are unnecessary.  They probably belong on the page for Toyota AE86 Sprinter Trueno
--Oni Ookami AlfadorTalk|@ 19:56, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm sorry that you feel that way, but the majority of your edits were either factually innaccurate or in the wrong place.  The information regarding the trueno was, for the purposes of this article, WP:CRUFT.  Matters like these are why the talk page exists.  In that way a discussion can be made to find a consensus or compromise in which information can be presented as to better add to the current article in its form.  The examples of other incidents where trueno's and the associated USDM carollas show up in media are something perhaps more worthwhile on the page for the car itself.  If we were to note the trueno's other appearances here what would stop us from needing to do it with the FC, FD, Sileighty, Silvia, Evo, and so forth?--Oni Ookami AlfadorTalk|@ 17:18, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Summary of reversion 

message: The last lines of "Mountain Racer's Code" is utter fabrication.  "The car is to be tuned best for the streets, and the interior should be mostly intact. The cars used in Touge should still be drivable for daily transportation and comfort. A heavily modified car which is not fun to drive or has no comfort for its driver and its passengers is not generally accepted within the Touge code. It may be made for street racing, but the importance of fun and comfort are not present. Nitrous Oxide is also not used as there are very few straightaways on mountain roads, and it does not speak to the driver's skill."
Why would the interior have to be mostly intact?  Why must it driveable for daily transportation?  If anything, that's a preference, but if you want the best performance possible you'd be tuning it MUCH harder than what is comfortable for daily driving, and you'd be taking out as much weight as possible in order to accelerate/turn/brake better.  You can compare this to autocrossing.  Sure, most people bring in nearly stock cars.  However, the most hardcore competitors haul in cars in trailers and have spent thousands of $$$ tuning the car into a state not anywhere CLOSE to streetable.  And this isn't even on a racetrack; just on a parking lot with cones.
Secondly, what is this "Nitrous Oxide" bullshit?  Why can't you use nitrous oxide?  "Does not speak to the driver's skill" - Please.  There are 350hp turbocharged monsters in Initial D.  Nitrous oxide isn't some exotic power-boosting module.  Fundamentally, it adds to the amount of oxygen used in the combustion process so that more power can be produced.  Which, in the end, is what any turbocharger, supercharger, aftermarket intake, larger exhaust, etc. is intended to do.
I deleted this bullshit earlier and was accused of vandalism.  Why not accuse the original writer of this section of INANITY, then?
Zhandao 03:06, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm glad you deleted it, I think whoever wrote it was trying to over-apply the Best MOTORing Touge Challenge rules.  It did not derive from anything spelt out in Initial D. RB30DE 09:31, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I just went ahead and removed it. I'm tired of the bullshit and drama that keeps seeping into that section and it would appear that you both agree.  This is another issue that would be better taken up on the page actually about the topic than on a page that just happens to reference it.  The only explanation of togue that is needed for Initial D is as follows:mountain street racing, downhill and hill climb, and the generally passing rules (timed runs and runner-chaser).--Oni Ookami AlfadorTalk|@ 09:41, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Glad to see it go. RB30DE 11:11, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mountain Racer's Code 

message: I saw a revert made to change Eighty-Six to Eight-Six.  I disagree strongly with the reason given.  Amongst car enthusiasts speaking in English, I have never heard anyone say "Eight-Six", it is always spoken "Eighty-Six", just as Skylines are spoken "R-Thirty-Two" or "V-Thirty-Five", rotary engines are spoken "Thirteen-B", etc.  Japanese do say "Hachi-Roku", "R-San-Ni", "Ichi-San-B" but English does not follow this.  If it is written it is either "86" or "Eighty-Six" (dash optional, "y" compulsory). 210.xx.xxx.xx 09:40, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hachi = Eight. Roku = Six. Ergo, Hachi-Roku = Eight Six. Simple, ne?--293.xx.xxx.xx 08:10, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Simple and wrong.  The AE86 has been around a lot longer than Initial D has.  English speakers do not say "Eight Six", they say "Eighty Six".  If they are saying "Eight Six" they are copying a bad translation.  If enough of them copy a bad translation, perhaps "Eight Six" will become the standard. Muzukashi ne?  RB30DE 03:38, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I hear both "Eighty Six" and "Eight Six." So, why not compromise and have a note about the mistranslation? Then again, I constantly hear people refer the Datsun 510 as "the five and dime and nobody complains. --293.xx.xxx.xx 08:03, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair enough, then the language is changing.  I wouldn't have minded what people wrote either way, but the punctiliousness of the correction (which I perceived to be in error) bothered me.  I probably shouldn't have drawn attention to it. RB30DE 09:24, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

text: you guys are all geeks... for the cool, its simply "8-6.. EIGHT-SIX". "eighty six" is should be reserved for the red neck state side internet drifters... so you can be cool or seen as a red neck state side internet drifter... the choice is yours. 64.29.36.15 03:02, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If by that you mean older people say "Eighty Six" and younger people say "Eight Six" you are probably right.  I would have thought that people more likely to say "Eight Six" would be Anime fans & pre-drivers, who'd had their first exposure to the car through a Tokyopop translation.  However there may well be regional variation.  For my fellow red neck state side internet drifter geeks, compare and contrast AE92, AE101, AE111, JZA70, JZA80, R32, R33.  RB30DE 22:03, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Its not only a matter of mistranslation or gramatical correctness. When combined with the word "Trueno" or the word "carolla" the combinations "eight six" and "eight-six" retrieve many more (in most cases at least double the amount) results from google than eighty six or eighty-six.  The term Eight-Six is definitely used more often.  In the anime it is referred two by the characters as "hachi-roku" which translates to eight-six, not eighty-six.  Also, in the Tokyopop dubs and in the english publication of the managa, Eight-six is definitely the prominent usage.  I'm not sure if anyone ever refers to it as an eighty-six.  So for the purposes of this article it's definitely eight-six.  If anyone still disputes this it really needs to be adressed on the Toyota AE86 page first, which I might point out uses "eight-six".--Oni Ookami AlfadorTalk|@ 09:38, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not reverting edits based on it, so there's no dispute.  Try "eight six corolla -initial" as a search.  Big difference.  "I'm not sure if anyone ever refers to it as an eighty-six." - Did you or did you not just google the term??  I have never seen the Tokyopop translation, so I'm genuinely curious, are we now calling Silvias "S One Five" and Skylines "R Three Two"? RB30DE 10:40, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, '"eighty six" corolla -initial' comes up with 643 results whereas '"eight six" corolla -initial' comes up with 2360 results. Zhandao (talk) 04:08, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Its best to clear it up nonetheless so that a standard can be reached.  From my personal experience, when just the number is said, it is usally done militaristically (one-five, eight-six, three-four, three-two, etc), but when it is said with the letters in the chassis/model code it is more likely to be romanized and spoken normally (A-E-eighty-six, S-thirteen, R-thirty-four, etc.).  That is understandable as the militarizing the numbers sounds a little less natural (I'm not saying whether or not they sounded all that natural in the first place, but with the letters they sound much less so, to me at least).  When I said "I'm not sure if anyone refers to it as an eighty-six" I intended it to mean within the English translations of both the manga and the anime.  Also in the arcade game the character text clearly refers to the eight-six as "eight-six", but it is a little more ambiguous for some of the others.  The R32 is usually just referred to numerically, as "R32"  but once or twice I think Nakazato does refer to it as a three-two.  In any case, regardless of the actual development and usage of the term elsewhere within the Anime, manga, and game it is definitely referred two as eight-six, and rarely (if ever) eighty-six.--Oni Ookami AlfadorTalk|@ 21:42, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Personaly I have never heard it refered to as an "eighty-six" however I do know that Skylines are usualy refered to in that manner "R Thirty Two".  It's entirely possible that one manufacuturer would use one style vs another. Spazzz 21:18, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I was in Japan for six years (Okinawa specifically) from 1999, and I remember something that could correlate to this. This was at the time when the Nintendo 64 was at its peak. So a lot of my friends (who spoke Japanese, I went to an American private school) had it and I caught on that the Nintendo 64's nickname was the Roku-yon (Litterally, six-four). It wasn't just them, I believe my aunt who was there was also commenting how the locals nicknamed the Nintendo 64 the Roku-yon. What's the nickname for Americans? N64, prounounced N-sixty-four, or perhaps just the sixty-four. I've yet to hear an American call the Nintendo 64 six-four. XenoL-Type 10:04, 26 Janurary 2007 (UTC)
I think the most relevant thing is what they call it in the story itself. And in all the anime I've seen of it, they call it Eight Six, so I think that's what it should be called in the article. 77.75.167.74 05:25, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Eight-Six vs. Eighty-Six

message: I added some more screenshots for each seasons synopsis.  I'm also curious about this phrase "(this is a nickname many Japanese-American change their names to)" in the section titled, "Tokyopop Alterations".  I'm not a Japanese American but I wonder if that's considered POV or if a source would need to be cited for that.
Spazzz 07:52, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Tokyopop Alterations

message: I'm just wondering since we currently rate this article as B what do we need to do to take it up to the next step?  I think we still need to agree on a standard for referenceing the 86 "see below discussions" and also need to generaly clean the article up.  I think some of the information contained in the early parts of the article about the different stages could be removed, cleaned up, and then added back in to an expanded synopsis section.  I also worry about the article focusing more on the Anime than the Manga but as I have not read the manga (and will not due to tokyopop's english representation of it) I do not feel I have enough knowladge to expand on that subject.  Any ideas?
Spazzz 17:39, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm working on generally cleaning it up and refining it, hopefully we can get the grade up before long. As for the manga, I haven't read it either, we need people with that knowledge to contribute.  Eventually it's not out of the realm of possibility we'll have enough info on both to make this a page devote to general information about the Initial D franchise and then have seperate pages for detailed looks at the anime and manga. -RedMageCWD 02:01, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Where do we go from here?

message: I've noticed that throughout the article we seem to be switching between refering to Takumi's Trueno either numericly "86" or phoneticly "eight-six".  Probobly just the hazards of multiple people working on the article.  The discussion over if it's Eight Six or Eighty Six aside, I think we need to pick one and stick with it to keep the article consistant though i'm not sure which one would be more "correct".  If I had to pick I'd say do it numericly at least it would avoid the arguement over how to pronounce it.  Any thoughts?
Spazzz 08:11, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Consistent useage of terms

message: Yes, there's a flub in Initial-D that is just as obvious as Steve McQueen throwing FIVE hub caps from his Mustang in one car chase in Bullitt.
If you haven't caught it yet, go back and watch them again from the start until you say "Not in that car he didn't." (And no, it has nothing to do with the quality of the driving, it is something plain old WRONG for this car.)
What that it says toreno instead of trueno in some scenes?
Copyright/Trademark problems. It's apparent in various other forms. If you see any scence of the Trueno's engine, look at the emblem on the engine block. --293.xx.xxx.xx 20:45, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  While you are sweating the small stuff...Did you catch the flub? 

message: Although in real life Touges power truely doesn't matter,260km/h still has to slow down for a corner considering how fast it was going and if it were to enter the corner at that speed it would understeer and crash while an under powered car is able to storm in at decent speed and exit at acceleration instead of slowing down easing out of the turn and letting hp work which is a very insufficient way to race. initial d arcade stage does have some major bugs such as rx-8's being able to accel no matter how much guardrail they eat. a more realistic touch would be to include a clutch and a real stick...for those who like to[heal-toe] Akina.
Though this information has a few facts, it's mostly comprised of opinions and stuff that aren't really relevant because this is NOT the Initial D Arcade Stage article. Sloppy grammar, too. I'm taking it out for the time being. In fact, other info in the article needs work, people are constantly changing the contents and not all of them are completely suitable. Please give me your opinion on the matter --Chemicalist 08:34, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There is a link to it in the Movie section, which is very close to the See also section. --Squilibob 12:25, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Unneeded info

message: There's no coverage here at all for these two OVAs.  If there's been an explantion of why or any discussion, I overlooked it.  I could get them started myself but as I haven't seen all of either my contributions may be a bit thin. -RedMageCWD 02:04, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Missing: Extra Stage & Battle Stage

message: I'm not quite agree on the following statement.
"He screams loudly while driving to release tension and prevent himself from making an error due to stress".
This explaination is right after a young racer commented to his friend that "God Foot" will scream while cornering, while normally people will keep quiet when focus on something. The screaming is like spirit booster.
The "God Hand" explain in mind that "God Foot" had no different with ordinary people while concentrate (Where he will keep quiet also. He screams is to prevent himself to be too concentrate on driving and lead himself to driving without using break (Which is the impossible move for anti-slip system). 
According to the "God Hand" at their age, these kind of action is stressful for their body thats why he scream everytime he is cornering.
:I can't stress this enough.  PLEASE SIGN YOUR POSTS!!!!  Anyways...  It is very clearly stated by God Hand that the screaming is to keep him from getting too focused, at which point he might miss something he should have noticed because he is too inwardly drawn. --Oni Ookami AlfadorTalk|@ 23:54, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "God Foot"'s Scream while driving

message: I have removed the following reference because it triggers spamfilter (and therefore no one can edit the page).
http://messageboard.tokyopop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2285
 Tokyopop forum. Retrieved 3 June 2006</span>
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Squilibob (talk • contribs) 07:04, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed reference due to spam filter 

message: Can some tell me who did the car illustration at the end credit of the 1st half of series 1, as all I know is that judging by his illustration, it must be the artist who did the illustration for the covers of Hyper Rev performance guide books like this one linked here. It would help if anybody owns a copy of that book as it should say the name of the illustrator. Willirennen 00:08, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  1st half of 1st stage end credit car illustrator