Talk:Ariel University

message: ariel declaring itself a university august 2007, added in + name change. Amoruso 11:11, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: status has officially not changed, and ramifications of the name change still unclear. --Shuki 19:12, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: current event

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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Ariel College logo.PNG

message: It's simply poor editing to reuse the same terms endlessly, besides the fact that here they are implied weasel word descriptors. I'm sure there is a better NPOV, linguistic, and professional way to state the fact that the educational institution has always been located in the same area. No one is denying it, please resist the urge to clutter up the article with it. I changed the word community to town, since Ariel was a town at that point, and community is otherwise vague or perhaps otherwise refers to a smaller residential organization of similar-interest people. As for 'country', it is simply misleading and purposeless, other than POV, to insist that 'country' in infobox is stated as Tiamut insists. --Shuki (talk) 22:52, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: How are they "weasel words"? And country only shows up in the location, not represented as an actual country. It shows up as "city, country" with here it being "Areil, Israeli occupied West Bank". The POV push here is to make it seem like this is in a "town" in Israel. It is not. It is in an Israeli settlement in the occupied West Bank. You could call that a "POV" but it is the "POV" of the overwhelming majority to the point that representing something else in its place is non-NPOV. nableezy - 23:02, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  settlement this, settlement that 

message: I understand the enthusiasm but it's not yet a university but another important step forward. Please resist the urge to give Nableezy a reason to rack up more edits in his position of enforcer of Israel. --Shuki (talk) 23:12, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Try to not mention my username. nableezy - 03:04, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ariel University 

message: Therefor the category is correct:  Its not pov when its the entire worldview that its occupied. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 21:53, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  university is in Israeli occupied territory 

message: Shuki, nobody said this was a Palestinian institution. It is however in the Palestinian territories, specifically the West Bank. Please explain why you removed the cat. nableezy - 22:05, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Claiming it is in the PA territories is wrong (Area C) or otherwise misleading and false. The reader using the cat would assume that it is a PA institution. --Shuki (talk) 23:27, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It says "Palestinian territories" which is what the West Bank is a part of. You have a severe misunderstanding of what Area C is, it is a part of the Palestinian territories. nableezy - 23:46, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Palestinian territory cat 

message: במלחמת ששת הימים נתפסו ירושלים "המזרחית" ויהודה ושומרון על - ידי צבא ההגנה לישראל. בירושלים "המזרחית" הוחלו "המשפט, השיפוט והמינהל של המדינה" (ראה סעיף 1 לצו סדרי השלטון והמשפט (מס' 1), תשכ"ז-1967). שונה הייתה הגישה לעניין יהודה ושומרון. המשפט, השיפוט והמינהל של ישראל לא הופעלו ביהודה ושומרון (בג"צ 390/79; בג"צ 61/80). יהודה ושומרון מוחזקות על-ידי ישראל בדרך של תפיסה צבאית או "תפיסה לוחמתית" (BELLIGERENT OCCUPATION). באזור הוקם ממשל צבאי, אשר בראשו עומד מפקד צבאי. כוחותיו וסמכויותיו של המפקד הצבאי יונקים מכללי המשפט הבינלאומי הפומבי, שעניינם תפיסה צבאית. על-פי הוראותיהם של כללים אלה, כל סמכויות הממשל והמינהל מוחזקות בידיו של המפקד הצבאי (בג"צ 619/78). סמכויות אלה יש שהן יונקות מהדין, אשר שרר באזור בטרם התפיסה הצבאית, ויש שהן יונקות מחקיקה חדשה, שהוחקה על- ידי המפקד הצבאי. במקרה הראשון מפעיל המפקד הצבאי סמכות שלטונית מקומית קיימת. במקרה השני מפעיל המפקד הצבאי סמכות שלטונית חדשה
:Israeli Supreme court views correctly that the law applied is that of "belligerent occupation" as opposed to "East" Jerusalem where the law applied is Israeli. It's not an issue of legitimacy or sovereignty - it's an issue of which law to apply. Amoruso (talk) 14:59, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  It is certainly about sovereignty. Judging that a region is under "belligerent occupation" implies that it isn't under Israeli sovereignty.  You are right about one thing though: the court does not call it "Palestinian". So the court rulings by themselves support "occupied territory" but not "occupied Palestinian territory". Regarding what you wrote above, the court writes נקודת המוצא העקרונית של כל הצדדים היתה – וזו אף נקודת המוצא שלנו when it is going to apply a principle it doesn't want to rule on, such as the humanitarian provisions of the Geneva Conventions. (It can't make a blanket ruling on the 4th Geneva Convention since it includes a ban on settlements, so the government helps out by conceding just enough of 4GC to cover the current case.) Plenty of my examples above do not have this formula or a similar one. Zerotalk 08:16, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Completely false on all accounts, but I won't get into it now - I don't want to talk about a conflict related issue - it's just your misunderstanding of what I said which was all true. anyway, it's off-topic. Bye. Amoruso (talk) 12:13, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

text: Uh, that comparison simply did not win me over. --Shuki (talk) 21:42, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Shuki, is there any doubt in your mind that the world view is that it is in occupied territory? Unomi (talk) 21:50, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: 'worldview' is not a policy or guideline on WP. NPOV is. And so is the importance of good editing. Frankly, if Israel was so wrong on this as you continue to single it out, then a very long time ago, the world would have invaded and forced Israel off that alleged occupation, or at the minimum started isolating it with sanctions. In reality, these are disputed territories which the world has decided will be discussed at negotiations. So calling Ariel 'Palestinian Territory' is a POV that you can have, but not impose on WP.  --Shuki (talk) 22:50, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Please do see WP:GEVAL, we have presented numerous high quality sources that all call it occupied territory. Yes the final status will be discussed at negotiations, until then it is Israeli-occupied territory. It is that simple. If you take issue with the sources, or you want to present counter sources, fine, but at the moment you seem to simply be ignoring discussion and trying to impose a WP:FRINGE pov on wikipedia. Unomi (talk) 22:59, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: good explanation here

message: Unfortunately, this has merely turned into a general internet chat and not relevant to the article itself. Several users strive to insert boilerplate POV to clutter the article lead instead of wanting to improve and clean up the lead to a concise intro. That is what should be discussed. Take the other discussion to a general I-P location for more visibility. --Shuki (talk) 21:13, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I think we were just trying to accommodate Amoruso and trying to get to the bottom of his argument and its relative merits. It is not quite clear to me if there are still editors who are arguing that it is not located in occupied territory or not? Unomi (talk) 21:19, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: There is a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration/Current Article Issues/Archive 6#General discussion on Israeli-occupied territories. where at this point the consensus affirms that these areas should be clearly identified as being Israeli-occupied. Please do join the discussion and please do honor consensus opinion. Unomi (talk) 16:57, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: West Bank is not misleading in the least. there's no neeed to politicize every article. Nick Fitzpatrick (talk) 00:33, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It is not politicizing to state the facts, simply saying that it is in the west bank is misleading the casual reader. Unomi (talk) 00:42, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Which facts youy choose can certainly politicize an article, as you are doing here. How is the West Bank misleading? Nick Fitzpatrick (talk) 00:47, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

text: I don't follow you. All of the west bank is occupied, AFAIK. Nick Fitzpatrick (talk) 01:09, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Please see West_bank#Settlements_and_international_law. Unomi (talk) 01:13, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I have. It says nothing about parts of the WB not being occupied. Nick Fitzpatrick (talk) 05:27, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: If you wish to argue that it is all occupied then so be it, I do not see how that affects our duty to indicate that it is. Unomi (talk) 06:03, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Agian, I don't follow- You said that just saying 'West Bank' is somehow misleading, since not all the WB is occupied. That it wrong - it is all occupied, and you have failed to show anything that says otherwise - but you still claim it is misleading? How so? Nick Fitzpatrick (talk) 13:51, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: NOTFORUM

message: See my revert after much edit warring. Discuss->policy consistent consensus... Sean.hoyland - talk 21:38, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Cats/naming

message: Could somebody please say what in this website says that this center has a a unique qualification: Gold CPLS: Certified Partner for Learning Solutions.? And what in this page supports the sentence that the Center serves as a representative of the Israel Academy of Sciences and Humanities cooperation with the Russian Academy of Sciences? And also whether or not there are any secondary sources for any of the material in that section at all? If there are no such sources the section should be deleted as largely unsourced and, for the one or two sentences that are actually supported by the citations given, original research based on primary sources. nableezy - 18:01, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Primary sources may be used to make straightforward, descriptive statements such as the ones here, that any educated person with access to the source will be able to verify are supported by the source.--Epeefleche (talk) 19:48, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: If everything that is not sourced or cited to a page that does not support it is removed, we are left with a two sentences: the first is cited to this page. That sentence being The center is set about by the Microsoft IT Academy and authorized to make certification exams Microsoft Network Administration. The second is cited to this. The sentence cited to that page is In 2011 Ariel University Center signed a cooperation agreement with the Skolkovo innovation center known as "Silicon Valley" in Russia. Following this agreement will be established in the country "center of Israel – Scolkovo" (Israel Skolkovo Gateway), to give Israeli companies to access capital resources and manpower of Scolkovo. If you want to have a two sentence section cited to a primary source be my guest. In the meantime, do you care to answer the question as to whether or not the "sources" above actually back up the material it is being cited for?  nableezy - 19:57, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  International cooperation and international students section 

message: It should not be, especially the opening paragraph that international cooperation has George45646 (talk) 17:42, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The boycotts are in the opening paragraph because it is a summary of the article's most important aspects per WP:LEAD. The section on boycotts is sourced from prominent reliable secondary sources. The section on international cooperation is not sourced from prominent reliable secondary sources. Sean.hoyland - talk 18:05, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

text: WP:LEAD specifies that notable controversies should be included in the lead. Please do not remove such material again. nableezy - 18:21, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: There have been several boycotts of the college and its staff, both within Israel and internationally, due to the college being located in occupied territory

message: This has been repeatedly removed as being unrelated. However, the source clearly shows the relation. From the source:Council notes:1. That Bar Ilan University supervises degree programmes at the College of Judea and Samaria in the illegal settlement of Ariel, near Nablus, in the occupied West Bank.2. That it is thus directly involved with the occupation of Palestinian territories contrary to United Nations resolutions. 
Council resolves:i. To call on all AUT members to boycott Bar-Ilan University until it severs all academic links with the College of Judea and Samaria and with any other college located in an illegal settlement in the Occupied Territories.ii. That the boycott should take the form described in the Palestinian call for academic boycott of Israeli institutions.The boycott was called specifically becayse of Bar-Ilan University's association with the Ariel University Center (then known as the College of Judea and Samaria). The removal of this material is unjustified. nableezy - 13:02, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Tell me how you can just say that this is the result of a discussion, when there was no such discussion in the first place. LikeLakers2 (talk | Sign my guestbook!)  15:25, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

text: It was a boycott of Bar-Ilan due to its administering Ariel UC (which was known at the time as the College of Judea and Samaria) as its regional branch. nableezy - 15:47, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

text: George45646, can you please stop reverting and discuss it on this page, which is the talk page? You already are in violation of the 1RR restriction put on this article. Honestly, I think you have a WP:OWN problem with this. Not trying to be mean or anything, though. :) LikeLakers2 (talk | Sign my guestbook!)  16:00, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

text: The material is very obviously related to this article. The boycott was called for due to Bar-Ilan University's relationship with this college. There has not been a single intelligible reason given for the removal of the content. It should be restored. nableezy - 17:47, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  bar-ilan boycott 

message: The ynet article includes occupied territory in quotes in the title because they are quoting a statement by a Spanish official. The official said The decision was made by the Spanish government based on the fact that the university is located in occupied territory in the West Bank. The Spanish government is committed to uphold the international agreement under the framework of the European Union and the United Nations regarding this geographical area. The use of scare quotes to attempt to diminish the fact that Ariel is in occupied territory is improper and should be reverted. The attempt to force such usage without any mention on the talk page is another problem, but one that can be dealt with elsewhere. nableezy - 20:57, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: We report what WP:RS report so the quotes will stay.--Shrike (talk)/WP:RX 06:11, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: What does that even mean? You want to include two words out of a quote from a government official in quotes? Did you even read the source? nableezy - 14:18, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  scare quotes 

message: Ariel isn't Palestinian territories is "Disputed territories". 
see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGYxLWUKwWo Bil2525 (talk) 18:46, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: What's the ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 code for the "Disputed territories" ? Sean.hoyland - talk 18:57, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: "The Truth About the West Bank"

message: This article claims the place is a university on the basis of a decision of the Council for Higher Education in Judea and Samaria.  However, that council can only recommend the move to the government, and the government has not yet decided.  See Barak holding up decision on upgrading West Bank college to university status, in Haaretz today. Zerotalk 09:25, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not a university yet 

message: Why are the words of Robert Aumann worthy of quotation?  He is a well known supporter of the settlements and his academic expertise (mathematical game theory) is irrelevant to the question.  Citing his Nobel prize is just puffery.  By comparison, none of the "1000" academics in opposition are even named. Zerotalk 13:44, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Why does a Nobel prize in economics enhance someone's political opinions? Zerotalk 08:39, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Undue quotation 

message: If you don't want to misspell the word "recognized", then take more care with your edits.  I also invite other views as to whether a single conference and a single lecture both deserve separate sections.  Nomoskedasticity (talk) 07:48, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: hi nomo - i have added a few more international guest lecturers, and i edited the conference section. the conference is clearly important due to its topic and the populations served/attended. not sure why you want it removed? Soosim (talk) 09:34, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gilabrand favors misspellings (not to mention ignoring [[WP:UNDUE]]) 

message: why does the location of the university say "palestine", it is israel. the state of palestine is an internationall disputed state§  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.98.212.53 (talk) 19:48, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  location of the university 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: יניב הורון removed the following, sourced and notable paragraph, which I have now reinserted (the link to the letter remained after the edit, but erroneously referred to another sentence in the same paragraph). Please refrain from removing it again, or provide a justification.
In 2018, prominent international physicists, including David Gross, Martin Rees and Ed Witten, published an open letter calling for fellow academics not to attend a conference at Ariel University, and not to participate in "attempts to normalise the occupation of Palestinian territories".   — Preceding unsigned comment added by Porridge (talk • contribs) 09:53, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  2018 Guardian open letter by physicists 

message: Some (less than flattering) sources can be found here. It's a blog of unknown reliability, but the links are to Haaretz, a reliable source. --Randykitty (talk) 17:15, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Additional sources 

message: Please add to notable faculty:
* Ozer Schild (1930-2006), Danish-born Israeli academic, President of the University of Haifa and President of the Ariel College.
--2604:2000:E010:1100:A491:E9F:CD8E:ED89 (talk) 07:20, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please add