Talk:Bernard d'Abrera/Archive 1

message: I agree. That is why I have asked several people to look at this article and to make sure that my sources backed up all the claims in the article.--Filll 01:06, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I also note that what to you seems critical and negative, to others might be less so. It is a matter of viewpoint. An ardent creationist would probably be pleased to be depicted in terms that put him at odds with evolution. This gentleman has written far stronger stuff himself.--Filll 01:08, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I suppose the most ardent capital-c creationists would enjoy being villified by those they disdian.  I only noticed that to me "Natural History Museum" sounded far more illustrious than "British Museum (Natural History)", so the sentence implying that to most it was otherwise I assumed to be a mere guess on the part of an editor (apparently yourself). Of course, the guess may be correct and the inaccuracy of the claim is sourced, but I didn't want WP to "force" the reader to believe that out of two very similar institutional names, one was apparently more prestigious-sounding. That's really all it originally was. Srnec 01:18, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well I do not feel I am actually vilifying him. He really has contempt for evolution and academia and PhDs etc. And I am quoting him directly. Actually, British Museum is far more prestigious a name than Natural History Museum. It has a very venerable and esteemed past.--Filll 02:07, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am not claiming you are vilifying him or misquoting him. If we are talking about prestige based on history, then it makes no difference since, as best I can tell, the institution is the same and its venerable and esteemed past is unchanged, only its name is. If we are talking merely about how the name "sounds", the I see no difference. Anyways, I have no general beef with the article, only with the statement I removed. Srnec 04:04, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Untitled 

message: It was a huge pain in the butt for me to dig up information about d'Abrera. Still some things about him I do not know. There are some clues that he mainly lives in the UK, some that he mainly lives in the Australia, and some that he moves back and forth. He might also give singing lessons over the internet to young boys, but I am not sure. He was involved in a college stunt to steal an alligator from the Sydney Zoo. This stuff I did not put in his biography article here. They are among the loose hanging ends that I could not resolve.--Filll 13:29, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unresolved issues 

message: Surely this is more than a stub. At least start? --Filll 06:27, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  stub class? 

message: I wrote to the University of New South Wales to verify d'Abrera's lack of PhD, and this was confirmed:
--------------------
Confirmation of Qualification - Mr Bernard D'Abrera 
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 14:13:29 +1000 
     
 
Dear XXX,
 
I am writing in reply to your email dated 7 August 2007 requesting confirmation of the qualification of Mr Bernard D'Abrera.
 
I can confirm that we have a student by the name of Bernard D'Abrera.  He is a graduate of the University of New South Wales and was admitted to the degree of Bachelor of Arts on 21 April 1965. 
 
Regards,
Laura Chan
 
Laura Chan | Client Services Officer | Student Administration and Records | UNSW Student Services | The University of New South Wales SYDNEY NSW 2052 | Phone+ 612 9385 2433 | Fax + 612 9385 1252 | CRICOS Provider Code 00098G 
----------------------
--Filll 13:59, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  confirmation of lack of PhD 

message: Thanks to some POV warriors, large blocks of the article are being repeatedly removed. This material has references. No evidence or citations have been presented that contradict these references. I challenge anyone who disputes this material to present their argument here on this talk page. In particular: 
*d'Abrera is listed on the Dissent petition. This can be easily verified.
*d'Abrera's affiliation on the Dissent petition is easily verified
*The current name of the Museum is easily verified
*The date at which the Museum changed names is easily verified
*There have been numerous other examples of other "mistakes" in affiliation of people on the Dissent petition pointed out in the literature, all of which can be easily verified
*The website of the Entymology Department does not list d'Abrera
None of this is OR. All of this is from WP:V and WP:RS sources. If anyone disputes these, or anything else in the article, please present your evidence here. Claims of OR or incorrectness without any way to verify them really are pointless. Give me an article in the London Times showing that Bernard d'Abrera is formally associated with an institution called the British Museum (Natural History), for example. Give me an article in Academia Online discussing the PhD d'Abrera has from Harvard, for example. Then I will gladly admit that there is some controversy, and change the article accordingly.
In addition, I contacted the museum by email some weeks ago. They had not heard of him. I am waiting for further confirmation from the Museum as they search their records to try to find any svidence of his association of the Museum. I am being careful. But I am trying to be accurate and follow the rules of WP.--Filll 12:30, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV edits 

message: Using the Internet Archive, Bernard d'Abrera is not listed on the Museum's staff list in 2005, but is listed on the staff list in Feb 02, 2001: 
and on June 16, 2001  and on December 5, 2002
and on December 31, 2003
but by February 03, 2004, d'Abrera no longer appears on the staff list:
. 
We certainly should note this, that d'Abrera was listed on the staff list at one time, but no longer is. We can also possibly determine when his name first appeared on the Dissent list, for comparison.--Filll 16:05, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: He was on a list dated March 2004. Can't find an earlier list for comparison. Hrafn42 17:28, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

text: We can however confirm that he wasn't on the original 2001 list. Hrafn42 17:47, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Affiliation