Talk:Prestel

message: I seem to remember program downloads (at least on Micronet) were charged not by having the first few frames being 99p and the remainder, but the *last* frames - so if the connection died halfway through, usually it was before you had been charged and therefore easier to sort out. Or am I just remembering incorrectly?
Ali0th 15:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

message: As the Post Office owned Telecommunications, thus also Prestel: plus also owning the 'Bank' called Girobank, why didn't the Post Office sell on-line purchasing sooner?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Acb58 (talk • contribs) 19:26, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Post Office Girobank 

message: "data was entered on a central Update Computer, "Duke", located in London, and then mirrored onto a number of satellites (mirrored computers known as IRCs)" - what did IRC stand for, in this context? Google leaves me none the wiser. -Ashley Pomeroy (talk) 15:14, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  IRC 

message: Is it correct to have Prestel in the category Teletext?  I think Teletext refers to a one-way service (as on TV sets) while Prestel was a two-way service and should be categorized as Videotex. Biscuittin (talk) 16:03, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Teletext 

message: I've slightly adjusted the edit made by 81.149.213.8 with regard to CUGs.  Not all CUGs were for paid subscriptions.  Some, e.g. 15500 were for Micronet800 and were indeed (usually) granted to paid up subscribers, but there were definitely CUGs such as 7500 (ClubSpot 810 Editors) which were granted to Prestel users for no payment whatsoever, merely to give them access to pages relating IP operations. Robirrelevant (talk) 21:24, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  CUGs 

message: Having kept a copy of the above mentioned document for the past 30 years or so, I have started to use it in order to enhance this article. Today I've added one additional detail of the Prestel Service, namely the requirement for installation of a Jack 96A. I have already confirmed with Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard that this document would in principle be considered suitable as a source material in this area. 
I propose to add further information, such as an outline of the Prestel Organisation, some Operational aspects, and extra Computer Systems information. Before going much further I would be interested to hear whether such additions from this source meet with general approval by the editors active on this page.
Inspeximus (talk) 19:42, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prestel. The Technology - Post Office publicity brochure dated 1980.

message: Have we got any sources for the numbers of subscribers? 90,000 ?
I've got an original save of their publicity factframe from 1987 here:
http://www.viewdata.org.uk/galerien/Prestel/65659a.gif
which shows 77,000 users, 61% business, 310,000 frames available to view, with 9.1M accesses and 139,000 messages sent per week.
Conversely, this frame:
http://www.viewdata.org.uk/galerien/Prestel/9961a.gif
from around 1988 saved from the non-public-access side of things, says less than 19K users.  This is probably for the single IRC that it relates to - as there were three pairs of these, and most users were only registered on their local pair, the total figure is likely to be around three times this - about 60K users.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Robirrelevant (talk • contribs) 18:58, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Subscriber numbers? 

message: Clearly there is much more the be found about those Prestel machine names and numbers - and indeed locations. I'm struggling to find sources but an article in InfoWorld 25 May 1981 on Google Books refers to 18 GEC 4082 "computer installations"  - which might of course include development servers. So far we have named "Duke" for IP updates, "Pandora" for mailbox and “Dryden/Kipling”, “Derwent/Enterprise”, “Dickens/Keats”, “Bronte”, “Eliot” and “Austen” as IRC machines, but I'm not sure about the pairing of the last three. Machines were sited in Baynard House, London (Duke, Pandora, Dryden/Kipling), and also at Croydon (Derwent/Enterprise?) and places like: Birmingham, Leeds, Cardiff, Edinburgh, Norwich (Ipswich?), Glasgow?, Manchester?. Names were largely based on local literary figures. Perhaps the residence of D.H.Lawrence in Croydon explains the divergence to Derwent/Enterprise! Hogarth was a singleton International machine (in Birmingham?), with Burns located somewhere in Scotland and presumably paired with another. Will see what I can dig up from reputable sources. Inspeximus (talk) 19:19, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prestel Computer Names 

message: From an old welcome pack:
"Your Prestel Centre is:
Birmingham Prestel Centre, Berkley House, 245 Broad Street, Birmingham. B1 2HQ.  Looks like it's a retail place though, based on present usage!
Robirrelevant (talk) 00:44, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Locations 

message: There's a distinct lack of citations in the article, so I'm making some notes now as I find things which may be of use.  Not enough time at the moment to do a proper write up, but if anybody else wants to, feel free!
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/prestel-rings-the-changes-as-bt-hangs-up-1367604.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/steps-one-two-and-three--hey-prestel-1331077.html
Those have some useful dates and figures in it.
Oblique references in this one
http://www.independent.co.uk/extras/indybest/gadgets-tech/computers-minitel-gets-on-the-road-frances-successful-telephone-information-and-sales-service-based-on-prestel-is-being-made-available-in-britain-frank-barrett-reports-1468011.html
Probably more on there too.
Robirrelevant (talk) 08:21, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Referances 

message: I offer the following five new sections to replace the majority of the existing "How it Worked" section of the Prestel article. Given that they are a total re-write I though it appropriate to solicit comments here before posting. Note that the section headings have been deliberately corrupted so as not to create extra sections within this talk page. Also please note I'm still struggling to get my head around formal citations & footnotes so forgive me if they do not appear as intended.
I have in draft but as yet incomplete, two further sections: one covering the Prestel hardware, and the other outlining the organisational structure of the Prestel business. These should facilitate the replacement of the remaining sentences of the existing "How it Worked" section. All being well I hope to be able present these for consideration shortly. Inspeximus (talk) 18:27, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed Replacements for "How It Worked" section 

message: Found this useful image of Baynard House on Geograph site [] which is already licensed for use on Wikipedia etc. []. Geograph also refer to planned bulk upload to WikiMedia Commons, so did not want to upload myself. Edited main article with appropriate image reference, but link does not work. Then found that bulk upload is actually in progress right now:  [] so have left link in place pending imminent arrival of image. Inspeximus (talk) 16:53, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prestel office location images 

message: The following is offered as a draft for a further section or two on Prestel Hardware. At the moment references are simply codes, but full sources will be incorporated once the text is transferred to the main article. The stuff about MCACCU's will need deleting from the current article to avoid duplication. 
I realise that the bits about VAMPIRE and DRACULA may be hard to swallow but they are genuine - and will be properly referenced!
I'm next planning a short section of the role and location of Regional Prestel Centres so should be able to link this in to the monitoring section below later. 
Inspeximus (talk) 19:28, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Prestel Computer Hardware & Software

message: I offer a fresh draft of the Prestel Messaging section, incorporating material from a newly received Prestel Marketing brochure, reference Pestel P545, and dated 9/1984. In this draft the brochure is simply referenced by the dummy link [MKT]. I don't think that any material has been left out from the current section in the main article, but some wording has been amended here slightly and much has been added, including reference to the Telex link service, volumes and charges etc.
Inspeximus (talk) 18:08, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prestel Messaging  - new draft 

message: The BBC have turned up some interesting documents for me
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/presence_on_prestel_1980s
The file "Radio Management Registry" includes some details on a "Closed User Group" service Prestel were proposing - essentially a entirely separate computer where pages *and ports* could be rented for private use in-house by a company.   Also, details on the trial for Prestel International - again, a separate computer with terminals proposed in multiple countries.  Make for some interesting reading.  
Robirrelevant (talk) 21:03, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Lots of useful documents popping up on the newly relaunched BT Digital Arcives, e.g. TCC 23/852/3 about the monitoring systems, incl. VAMPIRE ! Robirrelevant (talk) 09:21, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

text: Also quite a few useful articles in the Daily Mail archives! Robirrelevant (talk) 09:21, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some new documents 

message: Just discovered an article in InfoWorld 1982-02-08 about the launch of Prestel in the US.  
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=eD4EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA1&lpg=PA6&dq=%22Frank+burgess%22+prestel&hl=en
Anybody seen another reference to the "Jefferson" computer? Robirrelevant (talk) 09:41, 25 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Prestel Worldwide 

message: The article doesn't say for definite one way or the other - there's reference to the service being "run down" after the rise of the internet, but there's also mention of the prices charged for certain features "at the end of 2009"... long, long after all notable urban areas of the UK had received broadband provision, let alone high-speed dial-up services. It strikes me that, in much the same way as faxes and physical answering machines, it may still have a small niche for dedicated, secure data access services with guaranteed responsiveness and the like... Can someone please clarify whether Prestel or its modern equivalent is now entirely dead, or if it continues to soldier on? 87.112.66.153 (talk) 18:37, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Prestel itself closed in 1995.  Most other PTT systems had gone by the end of the 20th century too, although the closely-related Minitel (France) soldiered on until 2012.  Private viewdata systems have mostly been superseded, though I gather that it is still in use in certain niche areas, notably the travel industry, but probably only as a result of inertia rather than it being the best choice technologically.  The days of dedicated terminals on the desks dialing direct have long gone, however, with access almost entirely via terminal emulation on PCs accessing across the Internet.  I think the references to 2009 are to clarify how much the costs were "in today's money" Robirrelevant (talk) 09:18, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  The travel industry indeed left Prestel onto two competing networks, one being Midland Network Services or MNS - and later Imminnus that came out of Thomas Cook who used to be owned by Midland Bank, that was later Telewest.  The other network was ISTEL - which May have come out of the car industry and then bought by NTL - so both became Virgin Media. I would suspect they finally shut down in about 2010-2012, my memory is hazy. The move was caused by a lot of Travel Agents using quizes and chatrooms, bosses wanted a different system. Although attempts to move to a closed IP based system started around 1997 that didn't work as people saw the internet was free,  I do remember writing an implementation of Prestel Gateway to allow users to the Thomson system to access their purchase of Crystal Ski via the Thomson system (T#) rather than the CRY# mnemonic. Woodnorton (talk) 19:20, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
replies: text:  BT sold Prestel to small company (called variously New Prestel Ltd, Prestel On-Line Ltd, Citiproducts Ltd) formed by a couple of the GEC Computers former salesmen. They tried to keep it running for some niche business areas, but it folded after a year or two. The Prestel name was then bought by Demon Internet (UK ISP), but they didn't do anything with it as far as I know. 81.187.1.83 (talk) 22:01, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is it still running?! 

message: I'm struggling to understand what's going on with edits around 30 March and 7 April that between them removed some 10,000 bytes from the article and left just 75% of the original.
The edits are not done randomly but in a structured way but still leave the article in a state that is difficult to understand in most areas.
Unless anyone objects here in the next few days I propose just to revert to the version as at 21 March 2014.
Inspeximus (talk) 17:43, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: No need to wait - those removals are clearly suspicious and unambiguously damage the article. Good spot! Bonusballs (talk) 18:52, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

text: From March 2014 to March 2015, there appear to have been vast revisions of this article by multiple single-purpose accounts. I don't know enough about this subject to assess whether the article is better off now or before. If in doubt, a rollback to  may be in warranted. Ibadibam (talk) 23:12, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism? 

message: "I suggest therefore that it might have been used for high-speed editing access for IP's, perhaps you could check the relevant guides." Clearly not right for a wikipedia article! Scatterkeir (talk) 08:55, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree.  The last two sentences look like someone's comment and should be removed.--GwydionM (talk) 19:26, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Strange language in the 'Public take-up' section