Talk:Troy (film)

message: I have changed the title of the subsection from "Historical Accuracy" to "Deviations from Homer's version of the myth" since the former is misleading; there is no "historical" accuracy for a legendary tale, just different versions of the myth. The actual events regarding the archaeological remains associated with the myths in Iliad are extremely uncertain at best. See for example  - kostas
:What that misses is the section also discusses how accurate the movie was to what life and war may have been like in the time of the Trojan war. So your new title obscures that. Perhaps those parts should be split into separate sections. Historical accuracy and "Deviations from Homer's version of the myth"
::I feel the change is in place. I've added your explanation to the article. If enough information is gathered, you can always add an additional section. Spikeballs 19:01, May 6, 2005 (UTC)
:::Of course the change is in place. It was changed and has not been reverted. That says nothing about whether it is correct or not. All you're doing is changing the meaning of what was there and changing the heading to go along with that. The beginning paragraph and the end paragraph about the gods could be seen as assessing the historical accuracy of the film. Well at least they used to. See this diff from only about two months ago. - Taxman 13:34, May 7, 2005 (UTC)
::::I see what you mean. I feel this was a natural evolution of the section, though.How about "Historical Accuracy and Comparision to other Versions" for a section title? Or something of the sort, anyway. Spikeballs 14:10, May 7, 2005 (UTC)
::::Taxman what do you mean "The beginning paragraph and the end paragraph about the gods could be seen as assessing the historical accuracy of the film"? I've looked at the history and found nothing of that  discusses or ever discussed anything regarding the historical accuracy of the film. You don't seriously believe that there were gods intervening in some wars at the Aegean that were taking place around 1300 bc? The difference is simply that in Homer's version of a myth (that could possibly be based on oral tradition of some events that did actually take place, of which however there is scarce archaeological evidence) the gods had a central role, while in the movie their existense in only implied. Again, look at the reference I gave above to see what I mean. - kostas
: I changed "no historical accuracy" to "very little if any historical accuracy", since although it hasnt been conclusivley proven it is likely that the Iliad had its orgins in reality, but the degree that this is true is unknown- hence the ambiguity in the edited statement.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg 07:48, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Historical accuracy 

message: This section makes the articles unreadable. Let's make it three-times-shorter and more to-the-point. Spikeballs 17:39, August 13, 2005 (UTC)
How about organizing them "chronologically" and/or using a side by side comparrisson between the two.  I feel that would improve matters. Or it could be divided into additions, omissions, and deviations
Separate article? 129.170.202.34 21:03, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: *Then you shoved the unsourced claim into the cast listing. Wrong place and wrong manner to include it in the article. Niteshift36 (talk) 15:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

text: Another good source you might want to look at is The Oresteia, though I don't think there's anything here that needs that particular trilogy of plays. Anyway, I changed something which (basically) said patroclus and Achilles were unrelated, because they were 1st cousins once removed ;)--68.32.206.71 23:08, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I think I've been watching this movie (and others) possibly a bit too much. While reading Achilles (the Wikipedia page), my imagination made my own cut of the movie starring Angelina Jolie as Penthesilea (with a wink and a grin, I categorically deny that her role in Beowulf has anything to do with it.) Memnon, predictably enough, was played by Samuel L. Jackson, and Cressida was Maureen O'Brien reprising the role from her earlier experience. In the actual movie, I'm a little disappointed after reading of Asteropaeus wounding Achilles in the elbow, that they should have had one of Boagrius' spears nick him there; it would have been a fitting companion to his line for the Messenger Boy (I like to capitalize that because of how he says "That's why no one will remember your name") "I wouldn't be bothering with a shield, now would I?" It was obviously inevitable that that Nathan Jones went down early and hard; I wished he had lasted as long as he did in Fearless. But Ajax going down early at the hands of Hector really sucked. It isn't just how it differs from Iliad, but I really liked his character and Tyler Mane's portrayal. I think if directed properly (sorry, Mr. Peterson) Ajax/Tyler Mane and Odysseus/Sean Bean could have tag-teamed with an even more passionate and ruthless Achilles/Brad Pitt and made a movie just as unforgettable as the war itself, even if it would still be a dramatization of a dramatization. Featherwinglove (talk) 17:27, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

text: David Benioff talks about his decision to omit the gods from his screenplay here: http://www.screenwritersutopia.com/article/d158312f. Moloch dhalgren (talk) 01:10, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deviations from Homer's version of the myth 

message: Right now this constitutes original research.  Add some citations or I will delete 129.170.202.3 08:07, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: modernization arguements?

message: Article says nothing about music in this movie (tracks? composer?). I`m interested because, in my oppinion, music is (quite often) strikingly simmilar to that from "Enemy at the Gates ", as if it is a variation of the latter: music heared during battles seems as if derived from music heared during the Red Army`s disasterous charge from the beginnning of "Enemy at Gates". Also, several tones heared often in dangerous situations or twists in "Enemy at Gates" (notably when Zaitsev finds Maj. Koning`s cigarette) is often heared in "Troy" as well (also in dangerous situations). Any other oppinions?
Veljko Stevanovich Dec. 28. 2005. 18:45 UTC+1
: Ok, so James Horner wrote the music for both films. That explains a lot.
:Veljko Stevanovich Jan. 1. 2006. 20:05 UTC+1
::James Horner is known for reusing the same melodies and such for many projects. It can be either interesting or frustrating, depends on the user. –ArmadniGeneral (talk • contribs) 20:43, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That "danger theme" is always used when James Horner has no more ideas and needs to fill the scene with some music.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Surten (talk • contribs) 05:07, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Music 

message: About Yared's rejected music, the article says a bootleg copy can be found in the internet. I beg to differ. A friend of mine has a recording from a German studio, with Yared's original score. --200.76.103.98 (talk) 02:03, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unused Score 

message: Is the "side-note" about Neoptolemus really necessary? He's not in the movie, and this section seems to take the myths way too literally. Neoptolemus suffers from soap-opera-child syndrome, and I don't think it's useful to try to explain the story logically (especially not here where it's completely irrelevant). Adam Bishop 16:40, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with you. It is irrelevent mentioning about Neoptolemus as this article concentrates on the film. --Siva1979Talk to me 20:38, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neoptolemus 

message: In the film a plane is spoted I dont have a picture but when Brad Pitt decaps the statue at the temple a plane can be seen over his right shoulder so should this be added as trivia or even be added at all
::I'm watching the film right now- pausing and rewinding... there is no plane.
-G
In fact there is no plane in the movie. I too paused and rewinded the movie a lot of time. The plane is only in a photomontage which was repeatedly posted in Internet Alaksandu 02:56, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plane in film 

message: I removed this paragraph for the "Deviations" section:
The movie Troy cast a conventially good-looking blond, blue-eyed, fair-skinned German actress in the role of Helen. In mythology, Helen was "the most beautiful woman in the world", and described by the English playwright Christopher Marlowe in Doctor Faustus as "the face that launched a thousand ships." Modern critics snidely quipped that while Helen of the film Troy could have launched 100 ships, she wasn't beautiful enough to launch 1,000.
I think this paragraph is ridiculous, opinionated, and irrelevant. First of all, this is not a difference between the film and the book. It's just someone saying that Helen isn't as beautiful in the movie as they had pictured while reading Homer's poem. Second, what's with that last line? I never read a review of this movie that stated that. It's a line that some random person made up. In any case, this paragraph has no place in this article. Period. 2Pac 23:39, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with what you said, that paragraph was stupid. Good job. :)
Yoda921 04:47, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Paragraph removed

message: From the changes in this page it looks like there's been a lot of discussion about how beautiful Helen was in the film as opposed to how beautiful she should be, and I think we need to accept that it's a film, she's an actress, none of the actors are really Greek and move on.  It's irrelevant that she's German or blond.  In particular, I'm referring to the paragraph:
"However, the movie makes a point in a key silent scene on why this Helen (and perhaps the historical one, too) was considered so beautiful. In the scene, after running away with her, Paris is escorting Helen on a chariot through Troy for the first time. Here, there are shots of dark-haired, dark-eyed, tanned-skinned women dominating the features of Troy's female population. The women all look testily on the movie's Helen, perhaps jealous of her different coloring, perhaps upset that war is coming over her."
In the Iliad, Helen is referred to as 'golden', but it's not clear whether this means she's blonde, or if she's wearing a lot of gold, as the Greek women of that age did.  In any case, such a loaded discussion of her 'coloring' is a bit dodgy, and I think we're better off not reading into it that much; it's not referred to at all in the film and seems unnecessary here.  Unless someone can come up with a compelling argument to keep it, please remove.
Archaic Greek poet Ibycus expressly says that Helen was blond-haired (S 151 Davies)Alaksandu 02:51, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Helen's Beauty

message: The comments re: Patroclus and Achilles being lovers are not exactly accurate.  When the story was put on paper around 750 B.C., homosexuality as a social norm wasn't widely practiced.  The fact that the Classical Greeks viewed Achilles and Patroclus as lovers reflects an interpretation shaped by the society of the day.  Homosexual pairings arose around the 600s in partial response to the sweeping reorganization of the city-state.  Those nuances extended to other older myths as well-- Zeus and Ganymede for instance.  Achilles also states fairly clearly in the text that he loves Briesis.  So yes, while the movie does not follow the true plot of the "Illiad", it's unfair to fault it because Achilles and Patroclus weren't gay.  Just some thoughts.Ea10 08:53, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Homosexual Overtones 

message: "Achilles wrestles her down and kisses her lustfully while moving his hand down her bare thigh. (He's naked himself.) Achilles and Briseis have sex."
I think the above should be changed to something a little more subtle. Seems like something you'd find on literotica.com ... not that I know anything about that sort of thing :X . --Flvg94 22:45, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  erm, is this wiki material? 

message: I would like to add a link to the MythiMedia research project (Bologna University, Italy) http://www.mythimedia.org/. The project explores the presence of Greek mythology in today's culture, and contains an article entitled "Leaves of Homeric Storytelling: Wolfgang Petersen's Troy and Franco Rossi's Odissea" (http://www.mythimedia.org/Leaves_of_Homeric_Storytelling.html) [this is the address that should be linked], by American scholar Martin M. Winkler, who also edited a book on the movie Troy, published by Routledge. The site is written entirely in English Fallingdrapery 00:04, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: External links

message: Why is Ajax killed in this movie? It is obviously the big man with the hammer although to my knowledge his name is never mentioned in the film, but old descriptions of the man match the actor in the film. He shouldn't be killed at Troy, does anyone know why the director decided to do so? Mallerd 19:03, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Why not? They didn't get anything else right either. Adam Bishop 19:05, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, they did manage to depict Achilles' insanity well, although that is my opinion. Mallerd 20:34, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ajax dies at Troy. He falls on his own sword, which is caused by Odysseus not himself being named as Achilles's successor. For obvious reasons, he cannot outlive Achilles only to die later - the whole drama would be spoilt. He did fight with Hector, and I agree that killing him off was a good call. He is named: Achilles speaks to him briefly. Fuzzibloke (talk) 20:44, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ajax the Greater 

message: Doesn't anyone else think this movie is at all biased toward the Greeks? It's so clear! In the sacking of the city, the Greeks are posed as barbarians, but does anyone actually know this happened?      Shckleford        (24/10/2007)
:I agree, but I don't know why. Sorry. But Agamemnon is undeniably a "bad guy" - only Odysseus and Patroclus are "good" Greeks.  Fuzzibloke (talk) 20:45, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Biased 

message: The plot section is already way too long...people keep adding to it, seemingly only for the purpose of turning the Achilles and Briseis section into pornography. The whole section needs pruning. Adam Bishop (talk) 21:50, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: That is a point best left to a reception section (where we can note the countless reviews that made the same observation) or a themes section.  In the plot section, we report what's on the screen and not our interpretations of those events.  If the writers/director made comments to that effect, then we could note it in the plot with a ref pointing to the source where they said such.  If the two actors mentioned that point, it would be a good item to include in a cast/casting section.  I suggest looking over the film project manual of style and WP:FILMPLOT for more information.  Millahnna (talk) 09:21, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

text: Sorry I don't have any links handy I just remember reading it a lot at the time of the film's release.  I agree with the assessment myself, but since it wasn't a plot point that was elaborated on it would just be viewer interpretation to include it here.  I'm guessing that "troy film reviews stockholm" should turn up results.  I think a couple of the reviews I read at the time touched on the concept but without using the actual phrase, though, so it may be a bit harder to track down.  09:51, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

text: If there's a wikia out there that covers the film, it might go very well there.  I know some months back the film project here discussed movie wikias in connection to another issue (long film plot summaries) but I can't recall if such a site was listed.  Definitely something to look into.  Millahnna (talk) 12:17, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: *The F word is not a reliable source and can't be used on the site, regardless of copyright. Niteshift36 (talk) 13:53, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plot 

message: Reading through the discussion page, I see that there was once a section describing how the film deviated from Greek and Latin accounts of the events of Troy.  Perhaps it was too long, too bloated, I don't know.  Apparently this section no longer exists.
While I don't think it's necessary or desirable to detail every single way in which the film differs from the Iliad, I think it should at least be mentioned somewhere that the death of Agamemnon was a RADICAL departure from Greek mythology.  In any event it contradicts the Iliad, the Odyssey, and the Oresteia, making it impossible for Agamemnon to return and be murdered, invalidating any revenge by Orestes, leaving no conclusion to the curse on the House of Atreus.  You would think that would merit at least a passing mention in the article. zadignose (talk) 10:02, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Death of Agamemnon 

message: I removed this line 
"*The premise that Achilles goes to Troy knowing he will die in exchange for glory is contradicted in Book XI of the Odyssey, where the ghost of Achilles tells Odysseus "I would rather be a paid servant in a poor man's house and be above ground than king of kings among the dead."Homer. The Iliad & The Odyssey. Trans. Samuel Butler. p. 568. "
as, while it is true Achilles says that in the Odyssey, that is after he died, and is regretting it.  In the Iliad he is aware that he will die there, but thinks that the glory he will gain is worth it.  Unless someone can show me something to the contrary?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eldaran (talk • contribs) 03:09, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Achilles knowledge of his death

message: I'm confused about the run time of the director's cut, some say it's 196 minutes, but the article of the ultimate collector's edition in amazon.com says it is actually 201 minutes. Are these two different versions of the film? Scalpelexis23 (talk) 03:27, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Director's Cut Run Time 

message: The "Cast" section is so lame. I think we should expand it by adding the history of each actors on how they got the role and their reactions being included in the cast, and not just a plain table like:
Brad Pitt          Achilles
Eric Bana          Hector
These list are pretty awkward that the readers already know it, and thus expecting for more useful information.
Aside from the actors, we could also add brief information of the character themselves like:
Achilles - Son of Peleus of Phytia and Thetis. King of the Myrmidons and considered the greatest warrior of his time.
(Correction: Achilles was not a King; his father, Peleus, was still alive and indeed outlived him).   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.8.159.78 (talk) 12:34, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Expand "Cast" 

message: Does this article really need to be separate from this one? It looks to me like the person who did the split did it unilaterally, without consulting anyone, and WP:SIZE certainly does not justify it at this point. -- Blanchardb -Me•MyEars•MyMouth- timed 01:59, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, that person does not seem to be willing to discuss, so I undid everything and initiated Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Troy: Differences between the movie and the mythos. -- Blanchardb -Me•MyEars•MyMouth- timed 02:26, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article split: [[Troy: Differences between the movie and the mythos]] 

message: Contrary to what is asserted in the Main Differences Between Myth and Film section, Priam does not actually die in the Iliad, which ends with the return of Hector's body to the Trojans.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.29.143.86 (talk) 23:14, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Priam's Death 

message: * "The Stax Report: Script Review of Troy." IGN. November 14, 2002.
WhisperToMe (talk) 20:20, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Stax IGN Script Review

message: Was not Breis, like Cassandra not only a prietess of Apollo but had the power of clarivoyance?  Was she not violated in the same manner as Cassandra by Aganemnon? If both these women were so "graced" with the same fateful circumstance, why is it that Bresis does not have the power to see the future therby knowing the fate of Troy and Achilles (Yes, achilles does know his future. Still....). Is there some reference in the Illiad of Homer, the Orestes I Trilogy (Aganemnon, or any other classic greek work that resolves this questions? And did Briesis indeed survive the the sack of troy and escaped with Anaeas Special:Contributions/talk) 19:10, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: *Where in the movie did it suggest Breseis was clarivoyant? And who in the movie was Cassandra? Niteshift36 (talk) 22:59, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  What of Briseis? 

message: The English title of the movie, as well as the name of the place itself, is Troy.  It spells with a "j" in number of other languages.
Now, my questions is, if the place is called "Troy" in English, shouldn't the residents be referred to as Troyans, instead of Trojans as it is shown throughout the movie?  Norum 03:41, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Troy = Troyans or Trojans? 

message: The article states here that Aeneas eventually founds Rome, however this is not accurate: Aeneas migrates to Latium and founds Lavinium, also on the River Tiber. Rome was founded by Romulus and Remus, matrilineal descendants of Aeneas through Rhea Silvia (their father was the Roman god Mars). Some Romans, such as the gens Julia, could claim patrilineal descent also: they were Alban nobles (see Alba Longa) who were incorporated into the Roman people some time after the founding of the city. 
I do not want to remove the details on Aeneas, because they are useful for those viewers unfamiliar with the legend who may not realize the significance of Paris handing him the sword (When I first saw the film I personally thought Paris was just handing the sword to some random nobody so he wouldn't have to worry about dying shamefully with it). How, though, should it be reformed?--Luftschiffritter5 1 (talk) 03:53, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aeneas did NOT found Rome 

message: Having only the negative review from Ebert is a bit one-sided. Is there a way we can add in a positive review accordingly with WP:UNDUE? Greedo8 00:49, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Critical reception 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100124063338/http://www.moviemusicuk.us:80/troygycd.htm to http://www.moviemusicuk.us/troygycd.htm
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Cheers. —cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 07:28, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I'm a little confused about the line: "In order to keep their spirits up, he gives Briseis to the Greek soldiers for their amusement." Does anyone think this would read better as "In order to keep his soldiers' spirits up, he gives Briseis to them for their amusement?"72.239.133.237 (talk) 13:06, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Grammar correction?

message: Found in the Honolulu Advertiser http://web.archive.org/web/20040613181328/http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2004/May/14/en/en18a.html
Might be a good source
WhisperToMe (talk) 17:26, 15 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another review 

message: Months ago, this article was given citations about criticism toward the film for whitewashing and absence of greek actors in favor of white actors. Why were these passages removed? H.AFI.17 (talk) 15:55, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Whitewashing?