Talk:Transnistria/Archive 2

message: There has been a new census update in PMR or Transnistria. Apparently the communist, rebel Smirnovist government has decided that to say that Romanians were 34% was still too much so in his marxist-leninist wisdom, his greatness decided to lower the number a little bit to 31.9% romanians, 30.2% Russians and 28.8 Ukrainians. 
I am guessing that the rest of 9.1% are Bulgarians : 2%, Gagauzians 1%, Jews 1%, Byelorussians, Germans, Armenians, Poles, Tatars, Turks, Greeks, Gypsies, others 5.1%?
The population was likewise dropped from 580.000 from the preliminary results to 555.500. I read all this on the september 9th 2005 issue of Jurnal de Chisinau. I was wondering if anyone else has a Transnistrian site or something more official that we can place here as a source for the new data. I know that the Smirnovist terrorist pro-Russian government is not exactly primary source material, however it really is ridiculous to relly on a census and data that is 16 years old. Mihaitza 06:56, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Census Results 

message: It is also internationally recognized as one of the "frozen conflict" region as stated by the Council of Europe. 
:Facts about Transnistria (internationally recognized by all the official powers):
::*is a part of Moldova
::*is a "frozen conflict" region
::*is one of the most illegitime organization terroriziing people (had connection with Saddam's Iraq)
[]   Bonaparte  talk & contribs
:None of those affect the fact that the regime in Tiraspol claims independence from Moldova, and whether with or without help from Russia, maintains some form of government with control over an area of territory. We note in the article (quite prominently, in fact) that it is internationally recognised as being part of Moldova, it is quite clear that it is a "frozen conflict region", and I have little doubt that it is a nasty regime. This may need mentioning in the article - but it does not affect the fact that the regime claims independence. In any case, while we need more information about the regime, please stop making partisan edits aimed only at convincing people of the regime's illegitimacy. Adding actual information about the region and neutral, verifiable information about the Tiraspol regime would be far more useful. Ambi 00:42, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Transnistria is only a "frozen conflict" region 

message: I've added the tag disputed until it will be agreed to a better form of the article. It seems that the official and NPOV is not taken into consideration here. This is not a state or republic.  Bonaparte  talk & contribs
:Please state what exacly is disputed. "better form"  is required for every wikipedia article. Please state which statements are wrong in your opinion. mikka (t) 18:54, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I've removed the header. You cannot use a dispute header to force your personal point of view into the article. The article makes clear the international and Moldovan perspectives, but also MUST, in accordance with the NPOV policy, give the Transnistrian perspective as well. You or I may not agree with that perspective, but that is all the more reason why we must be even more careful to represent it neutrally in this article. Ambi 19:48, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Disputed article

message: (http://www.bbc.co.uk/romanian/news/story/2005/12/051206_baze_romania.shtml)
-- Bonaparte  talk 20:48, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: US military base in Romania

message: What was the result? - FrancisTyers 01:39, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Elections 2005

message: I propose to split this article in two, Transnistria (reffering to the Moldovan region) and Moldovan Republic of Transnistria (reffering to the unrecognised republic). --Danutz
: Try to invent some reasons. --Vasile 17:52, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Danutz, why move the article? It is fine as is. Ambi 10:24, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

text: No, Danutz, the reason is quite different. The Chechen Republic of Ichkeria is historical, currently Chechnya is occupied by Russian troops although it's a bit hectic there. Transnistria, on the other hand, still has complete control over the entirety of its claimed territory.
What f*** historical?: "The Chechen Republic of Ichkeria is the unrecognized secessionist government of the Chechen Republic. In 1991, as the USSR was collapsing, Chechen President Dzhokhar Dudaev declared independence of Chechnya.". 
The Moldovan Transnistrian Republic is the unrecognized secessionist government of the region of Trasnistria. On 2 September 1990 the Moldovan Republic of Transnistria was proclaimed. On 25 August 1991 the Supreme Council of the MRT adopted the declaration of independence of the MRT.
We are talking about two guvernaments, so we should split the articles. If that practice is used for Russia, why shouldn't that be used here also? Because this is Moldova? BTW, Transnistria also has a history of own, as an RSSA in the Soviet Union, back when Moldova was part of Romania. Transnistria is the autonomous region in Moldova (as is Chechnya for Russia), and Moldovan Transnistrian Republic is the de facto breakaway Republic (as is the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria). --Danutz
The proposal of Danutz is pretty much reasonable. The historical notion Transnistria is very much different from Moldovan Republic of Transnistria: the latter one is but a narrow strip. So the "history" section in the current article gives a false impression, not to say the intro is totally misleading. as to the usage of the term, failing to refer its old historical usage.  mikka (t) 19:00, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

text: In current usage, Transnistria usually means the non-recognized Republic. So, IMO, if the split is made, there should be Transnistria (region) and Transnistria, the non-recognized country. Moldovan Republic of Transnistria is neither official, nor widespreadly used. bogdan 23:05, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Actually, I see nothing to split. The history section certainly belongs in the article about the Republic and all the rest is about the break-away state, not about the region. bogdan 23:09, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

text:  The article should stay - in one piece - under Transnistria. --Valentinian 10:59, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  The split of the article 

message: The ridiculous statement that "Sheriff" company controls all economy of Transnistria is removed. mikka (t) 19:28, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sheriff 

message: If it is acceptable to illustrate the great contribution of the Slav tribes in the nearby of the region, I humbly request the presence of some information about the ancient Greek and Roman activity in the region.--Vasile 14:53, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: That Ulich and Tivertsy lived there is mentioned even in the Primary Chronicle. I humbly request that Vasile's contributions to the articles extend beyond the deletion of info from them. --Irpen 19:21, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ulichs

message: :Internet TLD: none; in some cases .md is used
From what I saw, they use international .com/.net/.org domains.
See: www.idknet.com; www.president-pmr.org; www.tiraspol.net bogdan 18:52, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Internet domain 

message: Transnistria’s ethnic composition is unlike the rest of Moldova, and the region
does not share the same interwar history as the rest of the country as part of socalled
‘‘Greater Romania.’’ Moreover, many of the ethnic Russians and Ukrainians
that currently reside in Transnistria were not born in Moldova and only recently
came to the country in the 1980s and 1990s (Note: Significantly, much of the current Transnistrian leadership, including Igor Smirnov, were born and raised in Russia and therefore not surprisingly have a different and hostile view of Moldovan identity and culture.)
The leadership has used these issues to cultivate a separate Transnistrian identity among youth and to socialize the population towards a Russian political space, rejecting European demands for democratization and conflict resolution. Transnistrian socialization has used traditional
instruments including the media and school.
Indeed, one of the important agents of identity formation and socialization is education.
There is a large political science literature that examines the impact that education
has on group identity formation as well as on the process of individual political
socialization. During the Soviet period, the education system in Moldova was used
as a means to russify the indigenous titular population through the use of Russian language
as the principle means of instruction.
I have reference for every word. 
-- Bonaparte  talk 18:56, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: added new info

message: (copyvio)
Reference
James Hughes, Gwendolyn Sasse, Ethinicity and Territory in the Former Soviet Union, Regions in conflict. Routledge Ed. ISBN: 0714652261, page 114-115
-- Bonaparte  talk 11:14, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Istanbul summit

message: Mikkalai, why did you removed the links to the BBC and the Japan Times articles ? bogdan 18:02, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: There are hundreds of articles about Transnistria on net. The article already has two dozens of external links, including one from BBC. If a Japanese newspaper says something absent in article, please add it into the article. Wikipedia is not a link farm. People can use google themselves. mikka (t) 21:09, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Actually, I used those two articles as references. bogdan 10:33, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  BBC/Japan Times 

message: Protected from anonymous edits against revert war by a flock of anon accounts. mikka (t) 23:43, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You are involved in this article. You cannot protect articles that you have edited. Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 10:16, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Semi protection is to prevent simple vandalism. This is a content dispute. Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 10:25, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with you Theresa. However looks very bad his behaviour. And yes, he did this before. This is not his last time. He made similar things with Moldovan language.  Bonaparte  talk 10:28, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Protected 

message: Mikka push a POV fork here.  Bonaparte  talk 09:50, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: POV fork of Mikka

message: Is bad.Stop it the lot of you please. Try working on one section of the article only. Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 12:27, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: And this anonymous user happens to be node_ue, http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Node_ue&diff=prev&oldid=32680988 . --Just a tag 13:37, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that one is user:Node ue. -- Bonaparte  talk 13:43, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I know. He did two absolutely useless reverts on Movement for unification of Romania and the Republic of Moldova: first time he reverted to the version with three "[Citation needed]" saying that it is unreferenced (although there is a reference section and the exact citation on the talk page) and the second time he reverted to that same version saying that it is unreferenced because the citations are in not in the article... bogdan 13:46, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Revert warring

message: Lysy's identity aside (he seems to have recently aligned himself with Bonaparte and Anittas -- I would advise him to check out their histories before doing so), there is obviously an outstanding issue of copyvio.  is a diff between the verbatim copies and the slightly modified version. As you can see, most copyvio material was deleted entirely. However, 2 paragraphs were kept (or so it seems), and some words were modified slightly, but not so much that the extreme similarity cannot be found through the diff. --Node 05:30, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Please post the two paragraphs here. Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 12:30, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You make again personal attacks? Just because you don't agree with the NPOV version of Lysy doesn't mean that you have to talk like that about me or Anittas, or any other user. Learn how to cooperate first.  Bonaparte  talk 08:48, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Bonaparte, where do you get the idea that accusations of Wikipedia:Copyvio are personal attacks, especially when they're 100% true? I don't know about Anittas, but I know you've definitely violated copyrights here. Or in case you're talking about me saying "I would advise... before doing so"... that's silly. I could be advising him to check your histories (although unlikely, and in actuality not true) because I want him to see what outstanding editors you really are. --Node 06:24, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

text: The diff is huge. Which section exactly do you think has the copyvio problem ? --Lysy (talk) 08:53, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The paragraph or two just before "The Kozak Memorandum" is the only one I can find with the diff engine. I thought there were more, but I can't seem to find them. --Node 06:24, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, the section containing the text "within the framework of Moldovan" was copyvio. --Node 07:07, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

text: Thanks for explaining this. I'm sure you know that signing your comments with different names and IPs can be confusing for other users. But I undestand and accept that this may be simply the matter of your laziness versus respect for other editors. --Lysy (talk) 08:52, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

text: I don't accept it I'm afraid. It takes virtually zero effort to log in, and/or sign a comment.  Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 12:47, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Copyvio diffs

message: Why did the Moldovan government decide to create a blockade that would isolate the autonomous republic from the rest of the country in 2004 ? It's not clear from the article. --Lysy (talk) 09:13, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  2004 crisis 

message: I added this:
In recent years, Transnistrian authorities have denied registration to Baptists, Methodists, and the Church of the Living God. Transnistrian authorities reportedly accused Jehovah's Witnesses of lacking patriotism and spreading Western influence and reportedly developed school teaching aids that contained negative and defamatory information regarding the Jehovah's Witnesses. [] -- Bonaparte  talk 09:15, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Violation of human rights

message: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1602963,00.html
THREE radioactive rockets capable of contaminating a city centre were offered for sale last week to a Sunday Times reporter posing as a middleman for Islamic terrorists. 
The Alazan rockets, which have a range of eight miles, were among 50,000 tons of weapons left behind at an arms dump in the breakaway eastern European republic of Transdniester when the Russian army withdrew after the cold war. 
 
 
They were offered to the reporter for $500,000 (£263,000) after he approached a senior officer in Transdniester’s secret police, claiming to represent a militant group in Algeria. The officer contacted a local arms dealer who arranged meetings with the reporter on a bridge in Transdniester and later at a hotel in neighbouring Moldova. 
At their first meeting two months ago, the dealer said the price of a single rocket would be $200,000. The rocket could be independently inspected with a Geiger counter to verify that its warhead contained radioactive strontium and caesium, he said. 
Last month the reporter was told that he would have to transfer $2,000 to a bank account in Cyprus before the inspection. He would then pay $8,000 for forged documentation that would enable the rocket to be smuggled across Transdniester’s border with Ukraine. It could be collected at an airfield in southwestern Ukraine once the rest of the asking price had been handed over. 
Last week the dealer said that the terms had changed. “My people want to sell three Alazans for a total sum of $500,000,” he said. 
According to the dealer, the rockets would be moved to Ukraine tomorrow if the terms were accepted. The Sunday Times withdrew from the negotiations once the availability of the weapons had been confirmed. 
Experts said the Alazan rockets, which were originally intended for use in Soviet weather experiments, could spread radiation for more than 20 miles from their point of impact. Few people would die, they said, but the contamination would cause widespread fear and disruption. Large areas would have to be evacuated for a costly clean-up operation. 
“The psychological impact would be devastating and the economic damage would run into millions of pounds, “ said Andy Oppenheimer, a consultant to Jane’s Information Group. “The Alazan would be especially attractive for terrorists seeking to strike a high security target.” 
United Nations and regional officials are pressing for tighter security at the arms dump in Transdniester.
-- Bonaparte  talk 09:21, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Radiation rockets on sale to ‘terrorists’

message: Transnistria
{| style="width: 280px; background: none; text-align: center;"	
{| style="width: 280px; background: none; text-align: center;"
    	
Flag	Coat of Arms
Looks like my infobox got removed in the various edits, but I will paste it here to see if there should be any changes or not. Zach (Smack Back) Fair use policy  02:51, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So, do you wish to have the English name only, or all of the official names? I can remove the other languages, if the others agree. Zach (Smack Back) Fair use policy  03:15, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think having only Transnistria on top will suffice. TSO1D 03:32, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Alright. Is everything else alright? The only other significant change is that I added a ISO code for the Transnistrian Rouble (TR, as pointed out by our article) and me and bogdan discovered that the PMR has a song they consider their "national anthem," so a short article was created and linked into the new infobox. Zach (Smack Back) Fair use policy  03:34, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The rest looks fine. TSO1D 04:33, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox 

message: I have made a few changes that I considered self-evident. They were reverted by User:TSO1D
here the summary of the changes:
*Internal politics, I removed the word Formally - there are obviously multiple parties who take part in the election, the elections are flawed that explained in details later in the same paragraph.
*Autonomous Moldavian Republic in Soviet Ukraine There are five ethnic groups mention in the paragraph. Only one (Romanian) is wikilinked (to disambig!). I think we need to either link all five or nor link at all. Especially important to proper link the Romanians and Moldovans as an unprepared reader would have a clue what the slash is suppose to mean
*World War II I have added This strip of land it was that later became the Transnistria to show the relevance to the main article that is not about Moldova but Transnistria. Probably should be edited to The main part of this strip of land it was that later became the Transnistria as there are some parts of it controlled the Moldova proper.
*The breakaway. I added that the language laws required from public servants to be proficient in Moldovan. That is the main problem with the laws as many PS did not know a word in Moldovan/Romanian
*Aftermath - I have rearranged the paragraphs in chronological order, removed duplications In the security zone controlled by the Russian peacekeeping forces, the MRT regime continued to deploy its troops illegally and to manufacture and sell weapons in breach of the agreement of 21 July 1992. In February 2003, the USA and EU imposed visa restrictions against the Transnistrian leadership. is literally repeated twice. I have also attributed POV comments as Moldova and Ukraine share common interests.
*Aftermath Undertaking!=promise - check your dictionary
I thought I did service to your article, but was reversed wholesale. Please explain abakharev 03:24, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  My changes.