Talk:Futures studies/Archive 2

message: According to PR Web, this article and its colleagues in other languages will shortly be the target of what appears to be a collaborative attempt at improvement. In no official capacity whatsoever, it's good to see stuff like this happening and I wish them luck. --Kizor 08:36, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Incoming!

message: Hi. Yes indeed the World Futures Studies Federation  is making its contribution to the global Wiki by a organised process of populating the Wiki with accurate information regarding the emerging field of Future Studies on 31 October 2005. Those contributing are members of the World Futures Studies Federation. The Australians are starting the process. Phayward 21:09, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: The World Futures Studies Federation Wiki Raid

message: Hi everyone,
Wendy Schultz jetted out of Honolulu this morning at sunrise on her way back to Oxford and left us the outline to begin the work of fleshing out the Wikipedia futures studies and social foresight entries. The History section is all hers, I just uploaded it... I slightly rearranged the content on the main page but did NOT make any substantial changes--not to offend anyone or step on the earlier authors. The outline itself is in no particular order, but you should be able to see easily what needs attention. Someone with good perspective might want to reorder the headings...
We obviously could benefit from translation to languages other than English.
As the page expands, it would make sense to create/set out discrete articles. Long entries SHOULD probably be created as separate pages -- as Peter Hayward has already done. Thanks to Jose and others whose fingerprints are already visible here.
Let the Halloween Raid begin!
Chris Jones
(jones@wfsf.org)
Outgoing Secretary General WFSF and former Visiting Associate Professor, University of Houston-Clear Lake
:Hi Chris. Nice to see you participating here. I tried to send WFSF an email last week but I was a bit lazy! Could you have a look at World Futures Studies Federation article? Cheers -- Svest 23:58, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  WFSF & FS Community "futurology" update 

message: Great job. However, the article looks like a mess. I've put the template {attention} for the same reason. We have to organize sections according to their importance and follow the guidelines according to Wikipedia:Manual of style. Cheers -- Svest 01:38, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Okay, that was the reason for putting the attention sign. Sorry for removing it - I'll replace Ligtvoet 09:28, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: The layout of the article

message: I've added a few masters programs in futures studies. In terms of layout, what made most sense was
1) to make a page for each program, so they (program directors / students / affiliates) could edit it themselves, and 
2) add a web link to the program 
however only about 50% of the web links are operative, so I'll have to clean this up tonight. 
Jose
:Hola Jose. Could you please use the 4 ~ in order to have your signature and the time stamp? Cheers -- Svest 01:49, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  programs and web links  

message: Hi Folks
Riel here. I want to put this up for discussion before making an edit because it is the opening paragraph and I suspect that we may have differing views on this.  I would prefer the first paragraph to read: 
"Future Studies is about trying to understand the potential of the present in the future. Future Studies is a broad field of inquiry that includes many ways of thinking about and portraying what the present could become. One of the key distinguishing attributes (epistemological starting points) of Futures Studies has been the on-going effort to distinguish possible, probable and preferred futures. Most work in Futures Studies falls either into one of these three different categories or is about the relationships amongst these three categories. Like historical studies that try to explain why and what happened in the past the efforts of Future Studies to understand the potential of the present requires the development of theories of present conditions and how conditions might change. For this task Futures Studies uses a wide range of theoretical models and practical methods, many of which come from other disciplines including economics, sociology, history, engineering, mathematics, psychology, physics, biology, theology, and more. What usually distinguishes Future Studies from the research conducted by these other disciplines (although all disciplines overlap, to differing degrees) is twofold. First Future Studies often examines not only probable but also the possible and preferable futures. Second Future Studies typically attempts to gain more a holistic view based on insights from a range of different disciplines. As the following pages that present the history of Futures Studies and the work of its many branches demonstrate, Futures Studies is cross-cutting, diverse and emergent."
A very brief commentary on what I hope this paragraph achieves. I think an introductory paragraph should be as neutral and open as possible - meaning that in the introduction we should try our best to not privilege methods such as "extrapolation" (which is just one method) or goals such as the normative role of "helping people create the futures they most desire" (which is just one function of FS). I may not have hit the nail on the head, but I think it is closer to a “neutral” introduction than the existing text.  By the way this is not meant as a criticism of Wendy’s definition, which I’m familiar with and is very useful, particularly as a launch pad for this “raid” process. Thanks Wendy!!!
--Rielm 14:25, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggested change to the Introduction  

message: Hi everyone! First let me say that this is a good initiative Wendy. I have added some details under the title Alternative Possible Futures where I elaborated on the idea of alternative futures a little. I brought in scenarios and some detail about trends. The source of this information can be found at http://www.framtidsbygget.se/center/signs/sign1.htm
I can translate selected pieces of what we are writing here to Swedish, but when I looked for a Wikipeda in Swedish I did not find one. If any one knows more about this, I will be glad to get a group here to build the Swedish pages on the subject of "framtidsstudier". Natalie, Visionscentret Framtidsbygget.83.226.118.136 14:48, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Framtidsstudier should take you to the Swedish article.  Best of luck!  ‣ᓛᖁ[ ᑐ] 15:12, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adding some details to Alternative Possible Futures 

message: Hi everyone, 
I have just added the term "foresight" (to the starting page, where all the alternative terms like futurism etc are listed), as well as a sub-page explaning the term. At least I  hope I have - should have spent more time in the sandbox. 
The sub-page is a problem to me, as it's called a disambiguation page and I am not really sure how to deal with that. In case one of you is a Widipedia wizard, please do have a look, any help is appreciated. 
But great to see this is progressing. 
Best regards from Germany, 
Cornelia Daheim
:Hi Cornelia! I think I've fixed your problems now, by moving your text to Foresight (future studies). Please check to see if it looks okey to you. Regards, --Boivie 15:50, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Boivie, and many thanks! That's just perfect. A good first wikipedia experience, thanks fpr such great and quick help! CorneliaDaheim 16:05, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Cornelia. I haven't seen anything about "Z punkt GmbH Büro für Zukunftsgestaltung" in the article. -- Svest 22:41, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  New entry on foresight 

message: Hi guys. I am amazed by this raid!!! Where have you been before?! What I can do here to help is categorizing, copy editing, wikifying and creating a template to be used in all Futures article (well, all the dirty work!). The rest is yours (I am not an accomplice!) -- Svest 22:36, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Wendy. Nice to see you all around here. Actually, 10 days ago I developped World Futures Studies Federation almost from scratch . I also created Mahdi ElMandjra article (though still I need time to develop it) and thought about contacting you for help. Surprisingly, here you are (2 dozens). That's why I called it a fatal raid as it was unexpected. -- Svest 00:55, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: And boy do we appreciate your creating a page for WFSF from scratch!  We need all the PR we can get.  IF there had been no content here on Futures Studies at all, we probably would have called it a barnraising; as it was, we wanted to generate a little excitement within our own community, to get people involved:  hence the slightly martial term.  Or you could think of it as a big Halloween "trick or treat":  the treat part is the extra content; the trick part is the mess (hopefully temporary).  wendyif 08:29, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: How many people are participating in this ''fatal raid''?!

message: I asked at the village pump about changing the heading from  'future studies' to 'futures studies'. Apparantly the title is locked into the system at the admin level. Below is my query, and teh response I got: 
Hi 
A number of colleagues of mine from the World Futures Studies Federation (WFSF) are together editing the page on studies of the future. The problem we have is that the page title (which we cannot change) is 'future studies'. The previous contributors named it by using something they call a 'google test' comparing the number of hits from different titles. 
The problem is that no one in this field calls it 'future studies'. I myself have a Masters in Futures Studies, know many in the field, and have conducted a survey of futures related courses around the world. There are half a dozen universities in the US that offer one course or another on 'futures studies'. No one calls it 'future studies'. 
There are epistemological reasons why scholars in this area have come to call it futures (plural) over the past 2 decades, but it would indeed require long winded explanations. All I really need to know is:
.......how do we change it?
Thanks 
Jose Ramos
:Most of the time, there's a "Move" tab next to the "Edit this page" tab. In your case, however, futures studies already exists as redirect to future studies, in which case you'll need to list it at WP:RM. Now, I presume that you're involved in this "Wikiraid" thing, but I don't think that this will happen as quickly as you want.-Sean Black | Talk 04:06, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I am sorry for being late in responding. It is fixed now ---> Futures Studies. Please check also with me the links from other pages to this article. Cheers -- Svest 00:13, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

text: Try this link to start editing . I don't witness the same problem (blank page) as you mentioned. -- Svest 00:34, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

text: One more thing. Future Studies still exist as a redirect to the main Futures Studies, in case visitors would search mistakingly for Future studies. -- Svest 00:37, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:   From 'future studies' to 'futures studies' 

message: Hi. The WikiProject is running and alive. Please participate on it. Note that you can change the layout of the project (just like treating an article). I'll now create the template that we have to use for every single article related to FS in order to attract more interested wikipedians and interested visitors. --Cheers-- Svest 19:19, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Futures Studies]]

message: Hello everyone. On the Wiki entry for Futures studies, as promised back on October 30th, there is now a revised version of the introduction.  There has been some back and forth via email, not very Wiki spirited I guess, but nevertheless constructive I think.  You can see the changes if you compare what is in the article now with what I drafted back on October 30th and posted above.  Now, following the spirit of Wiki, let's see what happens.  The aim of this new intro is to present Futures Studies in a comprehensible, inclusive and neutral way, without losing the distinctiveness of Futures Studies as a "discipline". This is a fine line to walk, particularly in a field that for better or worse has no orthodoxy. It may be that the lack of a dominant view-point is an accurate reflection of something inherent to the subject or it may just be that the field is still too immature. In any case I think the point of the introduction should be to delimit the field in as open ended a way as possible, without privileging any one school of thought nor losing all definitional meaning.  Hope this helps. Thanks, Riel  --Rielm 19:28, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  New introduction Part II 

message: The lists need to be cut down to be more concise... there's too many of them, and the External Links section is out of control. --mdd4696 01:02, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Created Futures resources article with External links for clean-up crews. RJBurkhart 21:49, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That doesn't solve the problem at all. It'd be better to bring the list back but pare it down to a manageable size. -Will Beback 23:59, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Too many big lists

message: Shouldn't this be at future studies, not Future Studies?--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 15:31, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Future Studies is a specific field of science, like Biology or Chemistry, and should be capitalized as a specific noun. Darkeye11547 18:34, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Why capitalization?

message: I have change the academic programs section to Futures Education, based on conversations I had during the wiki raid. People have been complaining that the section is too list heavy, and I felt the long list on academic programs was arduous. I've moved this list to a new section on university programs. However I'm not sure how this sits with wikipedia protocols. 
Comments appreciated 
Jose 
Globaleyes
okay I got rid of the new pages, as I was told they are un encyclopaedic. I know people have worked on the links, so I put them back under the futures education heading. But I think we need to find way of nesting links into other pages as references. 
Globaleyes 01:51, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: academic programs -> futures education

message: Is this project alive? I asked a question on that project talk page over a month ago and nobody replied...--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 04:41, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I created that project as I had witnessed a massive collaboration of a few contributers (maybe a dozen). I thought it would be a good idea but I am also now wondering about its fate. I hope to see more people getting involved. Cheers -- Szvest 12:26, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I am sure sooner or later enough (new) users will come to make that project come out of hibernation.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 03:07, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've recently requested the Minnesota Futurists Chapter of WFS to contribute or review & revise articles.RJBurkhart 18:14, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Futures Studies]]

message: This sampler reflects holdings about Futurists and the areas for which they use future studies to help them forecast alternative futures: 
* What futurists believe by Coates, Joseph F. (Joseph Francis), 1929-
**Publisher: Lomond ; Pub date: 1989. 
**Pages: xiii, 340 p. : ISBN 0912338660
* Predicting the future : from Jules Verne to Bill Gates by Malone, John Williams.
** Publisher: M. Evans, Pub date: c1997. 
** Pages: ix, 194 p. ; ISBN 087131830X
* Nine shift : work, life and education in the 21st century 
**Personal Author:  Draves, William A. (William August), 1949-
***Added author:  Coates, Julie.  
**Publication info:  River Falls, Wisconsin : LERN Books, c2004.  
***Physical descrip:  300 p. : ill. ; 22 cm. ISBN 1577220307   
**Subject term:  Twenty-first century--Forecasts.  
***Subject term:  Civilization, Modern--21st century--Forecasting.  
**Subject term:  Organizational change.  
***Subject term:  Social prediction.  
**Subject term:  Education forecasting.  
***Subject term:  Technology forecasting.
RJBurkhart 21:37, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  NE-[[Kansas]] JoCo Library resources 

message: Futurists contains little if any information that is not present in this article, I think that anything useful from Futurists should be merged here and that article should be redirected to Futurism, which Futurist already redirects to. --Hgebel 17:14, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would recommend against this. As outlined in Futurist (definition), http://www.accelerationwatch.com/futuristdef.html, there are many types of futurists in common and professional connotation (I've noted twelve so far). This term has its own history that deserves treatment. Furthermore, not all futurists engage in a process we might call study. Preconventional futurists would generally not. And while astrologers and religious futurists use methodologies that include study, their personal revelation or belief-based work, which may be significant for some, would not fall within a consensus definition of the futures studies term as used by most practitioners.--John Smart 18:35, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's why I recommended that after the merger it be redirected at Futurism, which links to a number of different types of Futurism, instead of this article. If it isn't merged, then the Futurists article should be expanded to include the other meanings, and the Futurist article should be redirected to point to Futurists instead of Futurism.--Hgebel 21:26, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

text: John, since you're working on Futurists I withdrew my merge request. I've put in a move request that Futurists be moved to Futurist (and Futurists be redirected to it.) This is to make it conform to the article naming conventions. In the meantime, I've redirected Futurist to Futurists since it didn't make sense to me for Futurist and Futurists to point at different articles.--Hgebel 13:33, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you Hgebel. And thanks for taking care of the naming requests. That's a bit above my pay grade at present. I'll do my best to put useful content on Futurists over the next few days, according to Wikipedia's standards. John Smart 15:36, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The move is finished. I bolded the subject to conform to the style manual. Thanks for your work on these articles.--Hgebel 11:50, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Futurists merge 

message: I am removing the memetics category from this article since you learn no more about the article's contents from the category and v.v. Since so many things may be memes we should try to keep the category closely defined in order to remain useful. Hope you're okay with that. The link to meme would be enough I suggest. Facius 10:57, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Removing memetics category

message: Just a question from an interested reader: what is the distinction between Futures Studies and Futurology? This isn't clear at a glance. ---- CharlesGillingham 19:02, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Futurology vs. Futures Studies 

message: I would like to suggest that this section be moved to the end of the overall entry under a rubric which might be useful to others as well that would address how FS is applied in specific sectors.  The Fashion and Design entry, placed where it is in the sequence of items that make up the FS overview, is confusing and misleading. Rielm 08:10, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fashion and design 

message: It might help if each  journal listed has a WP article, so they won't be considered spam. DGG (talk) 08:49, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Lists of journals in subject articles

message: The external links need cleanup throughout the article per WP:EL, WP:SPAM, and WP:NOT#LINK.  Additionally, the lists that are growing within this article need inclusion criteria and should only accept links that meet the stated criteria.  I propose an initial criteria of links to existing articles only. --Ronz 19:12, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Linkfarm

message: The first sentence of this article sounds more like an advertisement than an introduction to an encyclopaedic article.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.175.57.11 (talk) 06:16, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The first sentance 

message: Whoever keeps editing out well-known futurists please stop. This is an example of bias.  I saw Ms. Vita-More on this some time ago along with other well-known names.  Vita-More probably has more press than many of these names and more academic credentials.  She is a leader in the media arts. I want more women mentioned and more artists mentioned because futurists are not just businessmen. Videogamexx (talk) 20:18, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Futurists Women and Artists