Talk:Italian Game

message: ===Same as Giuoco Piano===
The Oxford Companion, MCO, and most other references equate the Italian game with the Giuoco Piano (1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Bc5), not stopping after 3. Bc4, i.e. not including the Two Knights.  Bubba73 (talk), 04:46, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: On the other hand, Understanding the Chess Openings by Sam Colins (2005) treats it as this article does now (1/2008) - 3. Bc4.  Bubba73 (talk), 15:14, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

text: And Encyclopedia of Chess Openings lists "Italian" but not GP or Two Knights, implying that Italian encompases both of them.  Bubba73 (talk), 01:00, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Original Talk

message: The Oxford Companion, MCO, and most other references equate the Italian game with the Giuoco Piano (1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Bc5), not stopping after 3. Bc4, i.e. not including the Two Knights.  Bubba73 (talk), 04:46, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: On the other hand, Understanding the Chess Openings by Sam Colins (2005) treats it as this article does now (1/2008) - 3. Bc4.  Bubba73 (talk), 15:14, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

text: And Encyclopedia of Chess Openings lists "Italian" but not GP or Two Knights, implying that Italian encompases both of them.  Bubba73 (talk), 01:00, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Same as Giuoco Piano

message: The comments below ("New Page","Name",Content?") belong with the article now on this page, so I've copied it to here. Moonraker12 12:20, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Moved from Italian game

message: I'm aware that the terms Italian Game and Giuoco Piano are often used interchangeably, and that these pages have been merged and un-merged a couple of times (see latest discussion here).
I’ve re-opened this page mainly to conform to the distinction made on other WP pages and in 
Wikibooks between play after 3.Bc4 and 3…Bc5, 
and also to give a seamless link to the pages on the Two Knights and the Hungarian Defences,as well as the Giuoco Piano. Moonraker12 08:03, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: New Page

message: On the issue of the name (see discussion), the sources here are no more definite.
Bronsteins 200 Open Games refers to the Italian (G.P), but then in the first game described gives 3…N-QB3 , which is the 2 Knights!
On the other hand, Zagorovsky’s Romantic Chess Openings has separate chapters for the 
Hungarian, Italian (3.Bc4 Bc5), Evans and 2 Knights (4d4 and 4Ng5).
BCO’s chapter on this has sections for Evans, G.P II and 2 Knights; however the first section, laying out 3…d6, 3..Be7 and 3…Bc5 is entitled G.P I, but with a particular line, 4.d3, entitled Giuoco Piano.
My own thought, for what it’s worth, is that historically ( say, in Greco’s time) the Italian Game was all play after 3.Bc4, perhaps to distinguish it from the Spanish game, and the Giuoco Piano was one of the (presumably quiet) lines in that.
Nowadays the Hungarian and the Two Knights have a life of their own , and the G.P has expanded (and the Italian diminished) to cover whatever is left. But I don't have any evidence to substantiate that. Moonraker12 11:32, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Name

message: I’m also not sure how much play should, or can,  be included in an encyclopaedia entry.
Should we just be giving an overview, and referring , or linking, to other , much more complete sources, like ECO?
And can we include big chunks of detail on various lines derived from those sources and stay within copyright? Moonraker12 12:07, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Content?

message: To clarify the Revision History:-
All History on this page prior to 27 May 2007 refers to the original page; 
From 27 May 2007 to 11 October it was merged with Guioco Piano;
History for this page between 11 October and 21 October 20007 is still at Italian game; 
All History after 21 October 2007 refers to this page.
Moonraker12 12:50, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Revision History

message: Why is the opening this article is about called "Italian Game"? By now, I've seen the name 
:"Polerio's game" ("Spiel des Polerio" in German). 
But according to chesscorner.com
:"The Giuoco Piano is named after an Italian chess player called Gioachino Greco who lived in the 17th century."
But chesscorner.com doesn't explain who invented the name, nor do they give a source for this claim.
--Schwalker (talk) 09:19, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin of the name