Talk:Second Intermediate Period of Egypt

message: please do not move this article to Second Intermediate Period as the general term is used in fields other than Egyptology Nefertum17 10:11, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Second Intermediate Period of Egypt

message: As someone who loves Wikipedia, I am dismayed at this article. It is incomprehensible.
What DATE did this period begin?
What DATE did this period end?
A range of dates is fine but discuss what the controversy is in scholarly publications that make it hard to date precisely. 
In fact throughout there is a stunning lack of dates. Did Manetho write about this period 100 years later or 1000? How about a best guess, if this is not known well? 
There must be a strong tradition among Egyptologists to avoid dates, and use names of Pharaohs in their place. My guess is that this tradition come from the 18th century when it was impossible to date anything that old with any accuracy. The real mystery to me is that in the "History" section of the Wiki article Egypt gives dates.
-Original First Paragraph-
The Second Intermediate Period marks a period when Ancient Egypt once again fell into disarray between the end of the Middle Kingdom, and the start of the New Kingdom. It is best known as when the Hyksos made their appearance in Egypt, whose reign comprised the Fifteenth and Sixteenth Dynasties.
-My Revision-
The Second Intermediate Period marks a period when Ancient Egypt once again fell into disunity between the end of the Middle Kingdom, and the start of the New Kingdom. It is best known for being the time of the first alien ruling dynasty in Egypt, that of the Semitic Hyksos. The Hyksos invaders took over much of Lower Egypt around 1650 BC, and founded a new capital at Avaris. They were eventually driven out by an Upper Egyptian force led by Ahmose I, who founded the Eighteenth Dynasty, c. 1550 BC and relocated the capital from Memphis to Thebes. The Hyksos comprised the Fifteenth and Sixteenth Dynasties.
Notice how it is now clear 
* what year this period begins and ends, 
* what distinguishes it, 
* what event marks its begining, 
* what event marks it ending? 
I very much do not want to sound harsh here but someone who knows ancient Egyptian history needs to go through all of these articles and date them.
Nwbeeson 17:32, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Our understanding of egyptian history during this period is too limited to make an article as clear as I am afraid you would like. The period doesn't have dates, really, since the decline into the period isn't marked by a cataclysmic battle like 476 and the fall of Rome marks the middle ages. I am afraid your change in fact, while trying to make it more clear, does so by adding wrong information. the date of 1650 for instance is flat out incorrect as the start of the period, since most scholars start dating from the end of the 12th dynasty around the 1700s. Thanatosimii 18:45, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Incomprehensible

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: In "Today part of" we see just Egypt. But in the map, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Israel, and Gaza strip are shown too.
Aminabzz (talk) 22:56, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Today part of 

message: I deleted the following short paragraph, because it explains a list which is not actually present in this article.  I've saved that text here, just in case it rightfully belongs elsewhere (e.g. in the Sixteenth Dynasty article??), or if adding the indicated list is somebody's intended work-in-progress. - Zulu Kane (talk) 14:05, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  16th dynasty list 

message: The dates in the article are rather inconsistent. The Thirteenth Dynasty is often grouped under the Second Intermediate Period, but its founding king (either Sobekhotep I if you consider the first half to be Second Intermediate Period, or Merhotepre-Ini since they lost control of Itjtawy by his reign) aren't present and neither was its capital of Itjtawy until I just added it. Salitis being the first king wouldn't make sense, as he was considered the founder (in Manethonian tradition, and isn't even fully tied to a historical confirmed figure) of the Fifteenth Dynasty which was not the first dynasty of the period. The dates are also inconsistent, such as the starting date of the period being 1650 BC while the 14th Dynasty is thought to have begun around 1725 BC and ending in 1650 BC. Star11308 (talk) 16:06, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Thirteenth Dynasty, Salitis being the "first king", and inconsistent dates 

message: — Assignment last updated by Johnstoncl (talk) 19:20, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: History of Ancient Egypt