Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sports Results/Archive1

message: ===Messages from the anon users talk page===
On User talk:85.165.200.37  Re: Flags and Athletics World Championshup results
Hi, I see you are adding the flags to the results of several of the Athletics World Championships pages. We had a disscusion about it a few days a go where we decided to delete the flags from the results themselves and just have them in the medals table. The discussion can be found on Talk:2005 World Championships in Athletics , if you want to discuss the changes further. Evil Eye 14:56, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Did you see my notes on the main pages of the WC pages? Why are you so determined to add flags to all the athletes? Why not just do it for the countries in the medals table? David D. 08:57, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

text: I tend to agree. I like the idea of using flags, but it does make the page very clutttered and harder to follow (you have to spend more time adjusting your eyesight and then even more filing through the extra info). I agree with a comment you made on one of the pages that there should be no flags in amongst the results themselves, but that there are some in the medals tables. Evil Eye 01:04, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm hoping the anon contributor will respond.  I resorted to leaving messages on the pages themselves since I got no response from his/her talk page.  We'll see.  I might add whom ever is adding the flags is also adding other good info so they obviously mean well. David D. 01:48, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure if it's the same person who added them before, but someone hs begun to add flags back onto at least 3 of the pages again. I'm leaving it for now though to see what happens and see if other people have anything to say on the issue. Evil Eye 13:09, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion that has occurred to date

message: On User talk:85.165.200.37  Re: Flags and Athletics World Championshup results
Hi, I see you are adding the flags to the results of several of the Athletics World Championships pages. We had a disscusion about it a few days a go where we decided to delete the flags from the results themselves and just have them in the medals table. The discussion can be found on Talk:2005 World Championships in Athletics , if you want to discuss the changes further. Evil Eye 14:56, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Did you see my notes on the main pages of the WC pages? Why are you so determined to add flags to all the athletes? Why not just do it for the countries in the medals table? David D. 08:57, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Messages from the anon users talk page

message: Evil Eye, what do you make of the changes one user has made to all the other WC pages, for example, 2001_World_Championships_in_Athletics (note added later: here is a link to an old page for reference).  All those little flags drive me nuts but the anon user is still adding them despite a message I left on each page to discuss the issue.  It is a huge amount of work for that person so I hesitate to revert but I think it looks really cluttered and adds no extra information.  With all that work the user could have been adding the results.  David D. 23:34, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I tend to agree. I like the idea of using flags, but it does make the page very clutttered and harder to follow (you have to spend more time adjusting your eyesight and then even more filing through the extra info). I agree with a comment you made on one of the pages that there should be no flags in amongst the results themselves, but that there are some in the medals tables. Evil Eye 01:04, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm hoping the anon contributor will respond.  I resorted to leaving messages on the pages themselves since I got no response from his/her talk page.  We'll see.  I might add whom ever is adding the flags is also adding other good info so they obviously mean well. David D. 01:48, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not sure if it's the same person who added them before, but someone hs begun to add flags back onto at least 3 of the pages again. I'm leaving it for now though to see what happens and see if other people have anything to say on the issue. Evil Eye 13:09, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion from the [[Talk:2005_World_Championships_in_Athletics|2005 WC talk page]]

message: Event:              	Gold:                    	Gold:   	Silver:                        	Silver: 	Bronze:                         	Bronze:
5,000 m             	Eamonn Coghlan Ireland   	13:28.53	Werner Schildhauer East Germany	13:30.20	Martti Vainio Finland           	13:30.34
10,000 m            	Alberto Cova Italy       	28:01.04	Werner Schildhauer East Germany	28:01.18	Hansjörg Kunze East Germany     	28:01.26
Marathon            	Rob de Castella Australia	2:10:03 	Kebebe Balcha Ethiopia         	2:10:27 	Waldemar Cierpinski East Germany	2:10:37
3,000 m Steeplechase	Patriz Ilg West Germany  	8:15.06 	Boguslaw Maminski Poland       	8:17.03 	Colin Reitz Great Britain       	8:17.75
I will reiterated that I think we should have flags in the medals table but NOT in the results table.  My reasons are out lined above.  David D. (Talk) 15:57, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: '''Style B'''

message: Event:              	Gold:              	Gold:  	Silver:              	Silver:	Bronze:                	Bronze:
Marathon            	Rob de Castella AUS	2:10:03	Kebebe Balcha ETH    	2:10:27	Waldemar Cierpinski GDR	2:10:37
3,000 m Steeplechase	Patriz Ilg FRG     	8:15.06	Boguslaw Maminski POL	8:17.03	Colin Reitz GBR        	8:17.75
:::I still think this looks a bit cluttered and agree with the comments made by Sitearm above.  Specifically, "The major issue is that multiple (more than 3) colors pull the reader's eye every which way and distract from reading the text". With regard to the country names, that is another issue of style that we have discussed and decided to go with the long names since they are unambiguous, whereas a flag and three letter abbreviation can still leave you unsure of the countries name.  David D. (Talk) 17:17, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey, I was just reading the discussion here and I'd like to show you the format that has been used on the 2005 World Aquatics Championships page. I think it worked quite well, perhaps you would consider using a similar style for athletics pages as well. Javacava | leave a message! 14:50, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  If a country abbreviation is used, it can be linked to the country's Article.  This lets people check the meaning, and in some browsers a mouseover the link will display the article name.   (SEWilco 17:11, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text:  Trying separate country columns. Notice that the browser deals with adjusting the number of lines needed for an entry.  (SEWilco 17:11, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: '''Style D'''

message: Event:              	Gold:	Gold:          	Gold:  	Silver:	Silver:          	Silver:	Bronze:	Bronze:            	Bronze:
Marathon            	     	Rob de Castella	2:10:03	       	Kebebe Balcha    	2:10:27	       	Waldemar Cierpinski	2:10:37
3,000 m Steeplechase	     	Patriz Ilg     	8:15.06	       	Boguslaw Maminski	8:17.03	       	Colin Reitz        	8:17.75
::: Having the flag first does seem to make the text flow together, so does have a different appearance.  I happen to like it.  There may be an issue with apparent priority of having athlete or country first.  However, I'll also note that the proposal is oriented toward competitions with national teams.  Although some sports don't have national teams, the nationality of competitors is quite visible.  Several major auto racing series are examples.  (SEWilco 04:33, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I experimented putting the flag after the time but it did not scan well.  My tendancy is to look for the result on the far right and the flag interferred with that.  With regard to auto sports I presume that colomn could be used for their car number or team name. David D. (Talk) 12:48, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: '''Style I'''

message: I think I recently saw mention that anonymous users do not get notified when Talk page messages exist.  (SEWilco 19:23, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I did consider that, which is why I put the message in green (box above) on all of the relevant pages too. David D. (Talk) 19:42, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Anonymous Talk notification

message: There are two issues present: Style decision on results tables, and ongoing edits by a minimally communicative editor.  Should the flag-adding edits this week by anonymous editors be reverted? (newcomers: that means deleted through replacement of a previous version) That will deliver several messages, if noticed, although several misunderstandings may exist until reaching this discussion.  The possible problem of a non-English-speaking editor being active in en: is more general than these specific edits. (SEWilco 16:23, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: User talk:85.165.200.37 is continuing to add flags to Olympic, European and World championship pages.  There is no doubt that if we do decide to use flag icons in the tables they will not be in the style that user is currently doing (Flags in fornt of athletes names).  I am also of the opinion that we will be using the mouse over style templates   rather than the format he is adding to each page  GBR  GBR.  the former has the advantage of being able to mouse over the flag and determine the country as well as providing a link to that country. For this reason I have now started to aggressivly revert the changes since I want to encourage this user to respect that other users disagree with his style choice.  As of this date he has blatantly refused to discuss this issue i am at a loss as how to get him to sit down and discuss this issue.  David D. (Talk) 19:35, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Revert 

message: So what is the situation now? Do we still not add flags? As in the 2005_World_Championships_in_Athletics article, many people have added flags, and the tables look good. - Nick_C 18:35, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I am just going to wait until the end to see how it looks once it has filled out.  If we really must have flags then I prefer the three letter coded flag in a separate column since it makes it easier to pick out the athletes names from the country names and flags. David D. (Talk) 19:17, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Situation? 

message: Note: the following thread of the discussion took place before the page was moved to the present WikiProject's talk page. --Wernher 21:12, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you mean put a note on that page or create another discussion page.  Sorry for being dense I'm new at this.  David D. (Talk) 22:13, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Not to worry; I should've been more precise. I guess a note would be OK as a start. If there is any interest in the issue, which I'd reckon there is, a descendant WikiProject might be in place (named, say, Wikipedia:WikiProject Sports Results). --Wernher 03:24, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, I left a note on the main page as well as creating the page you suggested.  Could you please let me know if that is what you had in mind.  And feel free to adjust it as appropriate.  David D. (Talk) 05:20, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Phew. Done for now. --Wernher 21:12, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussion should be held in WikiProject Sports