Talk:Tyrant

message: There needs to be a full article on Bullying, which is a serious social problem and can cause major physical and psychological damage, and in extreme cases murder or suicide. Lee M 19:13, 14 Aug 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes it does, and you're most welcome to start one, but this is not the place to put it. -Smack 04:37, 17 Dec 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: Just to clarify: my point was that I was redirected to "Tyrant" from the query "Bullying". Lee M 01:19, 12 Jan 2004 (UTC)

text: I am removing Hugo Chavez from the list at the bottom for the same reason I'm not adding G.W. Bush - obviously its not neutral...Libertine311 19:07, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Early comments 

message: Whats with this "There may be a connection with the biblical Hebrew word seren..." nonsense? its a greek word, wheres your evidence, whoever put that in? Terrasidius (talk) 21:19, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It has been hypothesised by Moshe and Trude Dothan in "People of the Sea: The Search for the Philistines", that seren, the title of the Philistine rulers, is etymologically related to the pre-Greek title "Tyrannos". John D. Croft (talk) 00:35, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hebrew?? 

message: Fact tagged this because it's an anachronistic confabulation. The original greek tyrants didn't suffer from issues of legitimacy then and the means by which they gained power were generally those considered legitimate today, i.e. by popular mandate. In fact this is the reason why they would be considered illegitimate in most parts of the pre-modern world in which, unlike ancient Greece, democratic traditions at the state level were rare, viz.: the fact that the tyrants were not born monarchs. The final kings of Rome do fit this but it's not the Latin etymology that is at issue. 74.78.162.229 (talk) 17:41, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Then tell us, O knowledgeable Scholar, what was the original Greek meaning of the word, rather than only telling us what ye say it is not. Firejuggler86 (talk) 13:10, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  "illegitimate ruler" 

message: Maybe we should add some modern tyrants, even if they do not exactly fit the description here, many modern leaders are widely considered tyrants. I can only think of one very recent example of a leader of a very large nation being widely considered a tyrant, but I am sure there are less controversial modern day tyrants from regions in Africa and Asia that we could easily use. JayKeaton (talk) 14:34, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Modern tyrants 

message: This needs work, as editors who sourced the meaning just used online dictionaries which won't work for something like this. Take a look at, for instance, ,   Dougweller (talk) 14:20, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Meaning and source 

message: I keep trying to add modern tyrants. Although the actions of leaders like Mugabe clearly comport with the description of Tyrant listed by wikipedia, one user feels compelled to delete my postings because I do not cite any statement describing Mugabe as a tyrant. What gives? The actions comport with Wikipedia's accepted definition. Why would an external citation be needed?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stunetii (talk • contribs) 23:30, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Because that is the way Wikipedia works, as it says below this edit window, "encyclopedic content must be verifiable" -- please read WP:Verifiable. What you are doing is called original research as discussed at WP:OR. Dougweller (talk) 05:41, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Modern tyrants 

message: I removed these words which have no foundation in usage of the term either modern or ancient. A tyrant is a person with absolute rule over the populis. It is not a misuse of power because this implies there exists a proper use of power. Maybe the original editor who inserted this was thinking of the tyranny of the majority over the minority in modern political thought within democracy (for example the political oppression of women before female emancipation, the oppression of slaves in America, or denying rights to sexual minorities that are granted to majorities), but that is not the same as the subject of this article.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by HuntersMoon22 (talk • contribs) 12:10, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  misuse of the power of the populis? 

message: The article dates from about 2003.  It was regarded as a start on a very important subject by WikiProject Politics.
"Tyranny" points to this article.
The article is poorly developed for an effort of many years on an important subject.  I suspect that the problem is the lack of consistency in the definition.  A group of more than 200 ancient Greek leaders was defined as tyrants, but old commentary was not consistent and did not clearly separate definition and description.  The 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica article on the subject mentions not a single tyrant since antiquity.  Meanwhile the classics contain two thousand years of commentary on tyrants and tyranny.  Current dictionary definitions encompass a larger class than the ancient leaders.  
A lot of citations in the article are informal.  Listing a famous title/author in the text reduces the need for formal references.
* Lead
The lead contains lots of citations regarding the definitions of ancient history.  It mentions "tyranny" (a larger subject) briefly - something missing in the most of the article.  Nothing in the lead suggests that a tyrant has lived in the last 2000 years.  The definitions have continued to evolve - not mentioned in the lead.
A psych paper is an odd source for summarizing philosophers.
* Definition
Quotations are not well integrated into the text.
      
* Etymology
Well supported by citations.  The article else hints that tyranny (contrasted to freedom and liberty) is a concept more recent than the concrete tyrant.  True?
* Early history
Maybe "Pre-history"?  The Harvard style of citations might work better.
* Historical forms
Contains a snippet of Etymology.  Thales quotation needs confirmation.  While this section contains most of the text it is largely unsupported by citations.  The history explains a lot regarding tyrants and their methods obliquely.  Some motivating words might help.  The Roman tyrants subsection is particularly in need of citations.   None of Tacitus, Plutarch, and Josephus seems to be quotable regarding tyrants.  The subsection mentions one alleged tyrant.  Does Machiavelli really belong in this section rather than in the classics?
* In the classics
Probably should be moved to after Enlightenment.
* Enlightenment
No citations support claims that the Frenchmen were tyrants.
* Methods of obtaining and retaining power
Quotations are not a proper substitute for text.  The Harvard style of citations might work better.
* Recent tyrants
This section was deleted for the convenience of editors rather than the benefit of readers.  The implication that tyrants no longer exist contradicts available references.
* Psychology of tyrants
Might benefit from another reference.
---
Other topics that could be covered include
* the means of avoiding tyranny
* alternatives to tyranny
* the morality of tyrannicide
* the acceptability of temporary tyrants
* the acceptability of tyrants for empire or in crisis  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.83.201.81 (talk) 18:26, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Critique of "Tyrant", late January 2017 

message: Thales said he would be amazed to see "not a aged tyrant, but an aged ship's pilot".
Less than ideal. 75.83.201.81 (talk) 18:39, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aged tyrant 

message: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution#/media/File:Aristotle%27s_constitutions_diagram.png2606:6000:514B:AD00:9491:B757:8154:4618 (talk) 20:15, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  A diagram might help 

message: Hello follow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Tyrant. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130123163001/http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Tyrant to http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Tyrant
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 17:14, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The Encyclopedia Britannica article on tyranny does a polished job on the subject.  Can we find references as polished?75.83.201.81 (talk) 20:09, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Roman tyrants 

message: I find this section to be very personal and interpretative. I suggest removing it because as we see in earlier sections and historic origin being tyrant means having absolute power. No one is psychologically analyzing absolute monarchy. Pejorative and negative meaning have strongly influenced this section, which bears no actual meaning on system itself. Sourcerery (talk) 15:26, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Psychology of tyrant  

message: Again POV, what is described here assumes malicious intent, bad faith, nefarious plan. Obtaining power by all means possible is Machiavellianism, further supported by quoting Prince. Those are character traits in realm of psychology not system of governance. Suggest removing this section and maybe incorporating some useful snipets in rest of article. In general this is not psychology article and should focus on system of governance, not on character traits, especially since Tiranny redirects here.Sourcerery (talk) 14:10, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Methods of obtaining and retaining power 

message: The section "Early history" isn't of encyclopedic standard, IMHO.  Could a scholar of the subject (which I'm not) please attend to it? Errantius (talk) 11:16, 2 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: These musings about the state, agriculture, civilisation and conflict simplify human history without adding anything much to the article, while "All leaders were once tyrants in their own ways" strips the term of meaning in what looks like a cute allusion to Tolstoy's "each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way." Should we just delete the section? NebY (talk) 15:48, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you, .  As I have said, I'm not an expert here.  If you have the expertise, feel free. Errantius (talk) 22:14, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  NebY (talk) 17:49, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Early history" needs improvement 

message: :Biblical quotations do not use the word tyrant, but... (then cites Proverbs 28:15–16, 29:4)
The Bible was not written in english. In fact, the Greek septuagint does appear to have TYRANNOS in 28:15 .
--2607:FEA8:86DC:B0C0:D8F5:C407:4495:168B (talk) 22:09, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  bible 

message: My ancient Greek history professor in college taught us that a tyrant as that word was used in ancient Greece meant not simply an autocratic ruler, of which there were plenty, but one whose power was based on the plebeian masses to whom he pandered.  It was this that the more conservative minded gentry, whose sensibility Plato shared, were most concerned about.  Julius Caesar was the prime example of a tyrant in the Roman period. 173.27.82.92 (talk) 21:07, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tyrant as Populist Demagogue