Talk:Panevėžys

message: I don't see any reason why polish name should be included for this given city - I'd understand if the name was totally different, but not in this case then name is the same, just in different alphabet. If polish name is included, does it mean names in all world languages should be included?? Knutux 13:20, 2004 Jun 27 (UTC)
:Only because Lithuania and Poland share a long common history, and the town can be historically sometimes identified under the other name it's good to have it mentioned here to avoid confusion. Feel free to remove it if this bothers you :-). Lysy 15:06, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Early text

message: Lysy, you asked me if the addition of the Polish name in the article, "bothered me" on your talk page. Bothered me is too strong of a word, irritates me, is a better choice. This irritation is the result of a definite Double Standard, being applied to former cities of the Lithuanian-Polish Commonwealth. If the purpose is to inform or educate English speaking readers of Wikipedia, that would be good, but I'm not sure that this is the reason it's being done. Panevezys was never part of Poland. I added the Lithuanian name for Gniezno, Molobo, reverted it, calling it "irrelevant", Kernavė, however has  "relevantly" (sic) been edited with it's Polish name added by Halibutt and re-added by you. I added the Lithuanian name for Lublin, Balcer removed it, because it is "liguistically not connected to Poland". This, in spite of its historical, (Union of Lublin), association with Lithuania. My actual solution is very simple, if an English speaking Wikipedian wants to know what the Polish name for Rome is, he or she can search for Rome. They can then link to the Polish article and see that it's Rzym. No need to add Rzym in parenthesis in the English version. Back to Panevezys, there is a Polish article about the city. The English speaking Wikipedian can link to the Polish article if they need to know the Polish name of the city. If this doesn't seem fair or make sense, please explain why Panevezys (forget Gniezno, Lublin, etc. for the moment), in particular, needs to have its Polish name included. I am not asking this hostilely either. I'm looking at its history and demographics, and puzzled. Dr. Dan 15:34, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Aha, you've chosen to respond here, how puzzling :-) These are not double standards. Panevėžys has never been part of Poland and Gniezno has never been part of Lithuania, no doubt about this. However, the historical name for Panevėžys was Polish, while historical name of Gniezno was never Lithuanian. What is the hidden intention that you seem to suspect ? Mentioning a historical name in the article's lead does not imply that the town is Polish in any way. In fact Panevėžys developed into a sizeable town only under Russian occupation in the end of 19th century. --Lysytalk 17:06, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Gentlemen, please forgive my intrusion into the argument. I would prefer to see both names, and other versions. This is because it is informative and useful. As I said elsewhere, I have needed to correlate the names, without knowing the language. I searched on the Polish name, within English Wiki, and found it. If it had been in Polish Wiki, I would not have. I appreciate now that there are differences on this, but in a part of Europe that has changed hands several times in the last century, surely it's common for there to be multiple names for places. Best wishes. Folks at 137 17:26, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

text: And, Lysy, ("Aha...how puzzling"), please don't be puzzled. If you could be so kind, could you give your opinion about Lublin, Kernave, and the other issues, too. If giving the names of even small towns, far from Poland's border, towns that have never been part of Poland, is not a double standard; if I do this to the name of Polish cities and towns, and they are RV'd. Thanks again, Dr. Dan 21:46, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You've just asked me to "forget Gniezno, Lublin, etc. for the moment", and now you seem to be suprised that I did ? Personally, I don't mind any foreign names anywhere. However, before you continue this unproductive discussion, I beg you take a look at the proposed standard. It's been miraculously reached as a consensus in numerous discussions between Belarusian, Lithuanian, German, Polish, Russian, Ukrainian and other editors (including North American). As you may imagine, it's been quite a challenge to satisfy anyone's concern. So instead of reinventing the wheel and moaning here, I'd sugest you take a look and hopefully contribute there in a more productive way. --Lysytalk 22:06, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Please do not feel offended that the consensus has been reached without you. I don't need to say you're welcome to contibute to the proposed standard and improved it (but try not to break anything). The "double standard" that you're complaining about is nothing else but an application of Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names). For similar reason we are mentioning "Danzig" in Gdańsk article, but not "Lipsk" in Leipzig. As for your question regarding the origing of "Poniewież" name, I'm sorry, I have not seen you asking about this before. But since you can speak Polish, I'm sure you can very well answer yourself (hint: try "Po+Niewież"). You're not trying to suggest that the town was named in Lithuanian language in 16th, 17th and 18th centuries, are you ? --Lysytalk 23:00, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Lithuanian is a very old language. However, the reality that you have to face is that Polish (and Ruthenian) was lingua franca of GDL for centuries, while Lithuanian was used mostly by peasants in certain parts of the country only and became gradually forgotten. You are right that Lithuanian was revived in late 19th century, when many Lithuanians started to learn it anew, almost as a foreign language. That's admirable but there's no point in pretending that Lithuanian was a dominating language in 17th or 18th century. Lithuanian history is very rich, and its cultural diversity is something to be proud of, and not to be hidden. --Lysytalk 15:13, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

text: There is always Names of European cities in different languages. Balcer 13:47, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: All of you, I suggest take a look at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names). --Lysytalk 15:18, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Polish name of the City

message: Can the "Lithuanian Chicago" be explained in the article ? Where is the similarity between the two ? --Lysytalk 21:23, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lithuanian Chicago 

message: Karaites, yes. It is well documented, but not 14th, but 15th century. Where do this fairy tale "Community of Poles in the area as early as 14th century" come from? Žemėpatis (talk) 03:50, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Communities of Poles, and Karaites, settled in the area as early as the 14th century 

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