Talk:The Gold-Bug

message: Why is "Cap'n Teedge" linking to William Kidd?  It's more likely to be a reference to Blackbeard, whose real name was Teach.  Is there a good reason for linking to Kidd instead?  If not, I'll change the link.  P Ingerson (talk) 10:37, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The story itself calls him "Captain Kidd" or just "Kidd", I can't find either "Cap'n" or "Teedge" anywhere in the text. Everything Google turns up for "Cap'n Teedge" is derived from Wikipedia — mostly this article (the Kidd article shows up because it's linked to here, not because the name occurs in the article), but the List of Wold Newton Universe characters article may indicate the source for the name. Whatever the case, I'll change it to just "Captain Kidd". Aitch Eye 16:42, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks.  P Ingerson (talk) 00:09, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "But I have just said that the figure was NOT that of a goat."   "Well, a kid then--pretty much the same thing." "Pretty much, but not altogether," said Legrand. "You may have heard of one CAPTAIN Kidd. I at once looked upon the figure of the animal as a kind of punning or hieroglyphical signature  ( excerpt from the Gold Bug )  --Neuromancien 02:52, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "Cap'n Teedge"

message: Certainly it should be mentioned, if not already obvious to the reader, that William set out to find the treasure after being "bitten by the gold bug," a phrase commonly associated with the gold rush or treasure seekers, later meaning someone who's found a get-rich-quick scheme.  The beetle itself, besides being used as a device in the plot, is in this way a wry pun.  The story is then further twisted when William shows amusement at being thought crazy by his friends, and playing along, demonstrating the total self-awareness Poe gave his characters.  Rainman420 09:25, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a good point, but I have yet to find a source that says that. Maybe it is already that obvious? If I come across something, I'll add it.  -Midnightdreary 15:10, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have found evidence that the expression "bitten by the gold bug" means made crazy with an obsession to possess gold, as in this reference. Fartherred (talk) 04:13, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Must a literary critic point out this fact before it can be mentioned in the article?  It seems significant that Poe takes a common figure of speech and gives the words literal meaning in his story. Fartherred (talk) 05:04, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, not necessarily a literary critic but, yes, I think someone other than us should make the connection. Especially for a recognized GA, we should be careful. Did the expression exist at the time? Did Poe make the pun intentionally? We can't back it up unless we can attribute it to a reliable source. --Midnightdreary (talk) 17:08, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It is possible that the figure of speech originated with Poe's story, but if it predated Poe it must have been an intentional pun.  Either way it is significant.  Someone should have written about it.  Wikipedians refer to any unsubstantiated nonsense as original research because our only concern is removing improper material.  If we can find that a publisher has put somebody's unsubstantiated nonsense into print, then it qualifies for Wikipedia, until someone more capable than I starts discriminating between more and less reliable sources, as in WP:RELIABLE. Fartherred (talk) 12:11, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It's true: the OR rule is pretty arbitrary. But, I'm not sure we can just assume "it must have been an intentional pun". Ya never know. That is the kind of thing I'd want some kind of back-up for (if only so we can blame someone else). I doubt that Poe originated the phrase; if that was the case, it would certainly have been written about as such. --Midnightdreary (talk) 22:31, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Pun

message: By substitution the decoded message should be "...forty-one degrees..." instead of "...twenty-one degrees...". Can anyone confirm? Chinhnt2k3 (talk) 05:51, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, you're correct. Someone changed this recently but I've changed it back now. --- RockMFR 02:14, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

text: I went ahead and updated the cipher, and decoded message to the "forty" version. rob215 (talk) 20:51, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  The decoded message 

message: I believe the decoded message AND cipher currently listed on the page, are the "wrong" ones. But, it should be noted there are actually TWO distinct versions of Poe's text. The original, posted in the Dollar Newspaper (and pictured in the page) uses the word "forty" in the cipher, decoded message, and throughout the story. A second version uses "twenty" in the cipher and throughout the text. In all versions of the story, the Legrand character gives a table of the letter frequencies. The numbers in that table are ONLY correct if you use the word "forty". Here are more points to consider:
- Wikisource uses "forty" in the cipher and the text.https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Tales_(Poe)/The_Gold-Bug
- You can copy/paste the cipher from Wikisource into a simple utility I made to count the character frequencies and you'll see they match the frequency table given in ANY version of the story. 
- If you copy/paste the "twenty" cipher currently listed on this wiki page, into my Character Counter, you'll see a few of the frequencies are different from those listed in the story text. 
- I do not know how two versions of the story came to exist but they are both listed on the Edgar Allan Poe Society site and the original uses "forty".https://www.eapoe.org/works/info/pt042.htm
- I own two old books containing the Gold Bug and both of them use the "forty" version and the same cipher found in the Wikisource text: 
# Prose Tales by Edgar Allan Poe, New York: Thomas Y. Crowell & Company, 1898 
# Best Known Works of Edgar A. Poe, Introduction by Harvey Allen, New York: Walter J. Black Co., 1927
# 
- When I was trying to verify and sort all this out, I made another page that generates a simple substitution cryptogram from plaintext. You can click "Use Poe's text" then "Use Poe's key" then "ENCODE" to get the cipher. Then, you can change "forty" to "twenty" and see both results. 
rob215 (talk) 03:38, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I went ahead and updated the cipher, and decoded message to the "forty" version. rob215 (talk) 20:51, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Can we change back to "forty"? 

message: I don't remember any cryptograms in Crusoe.  In what way would Poe's interest have been inspired by it?  For that matter, I'd thought it was pretty clearly established that Poe's interest in cryptography began with William Blair's "Cipher" article in Abraham Rees's "Cyclopaedia".
--jdege (talk) 20:56, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inspired by Robinson Crusoe? 

message: The plot summary appears to be jumbled and thus erroneous. 
At the story's beginning, Legrand does not notify the narrator to come and visit him; the narrator *happens to visit* just as Legrand and Jupiter return with the parchment.  From the text:  '"Ah, if I had only known you were here!" said Legrand, "but it's so long since I saw you; and how could I foresee that you would pay me a visit this very night of all others?"'  This happenstance, as Legrand notes later, is just one of many coincidences that leads Legrand to believe that the discovery of the bug is fated.
Second, the current text says "The narrator has intense doubt and questions whether Legrand, who has recently lost his fortune, has gone insane."  Legrand's family's fortune was lost many years before, as is indicated at the beginning of the story.  The narrator indeed believes that he's suffering from insanity, but indicates early in the story that this is a chronic condition and the reason that Jupiter has been tasked with looking after him.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ljadwin (talk • contribs) 02:39, 4 February 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: WP:SOFIXIT. For such minor changes, there's no need for such a lengthy comment. Be bold. --Midnightdreary (talk) 13:30, 4 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plot summary errors 

message: In the intro we find: ""The Gold-Bug" was an instant success and was the most popular and most widely read of Poe's works during his lifetime."  But later we in the article we find the discussion regarding The Raven and that "the bird beat the bug."  It seems to me that the The Gold-Bug was not Poe's most widely read work--but probably his most widely read prose (The Raven being his most widely read poem.)  However, I don't want to make the change unless someone can confirm which was actually his most popular and widely read work--was it The Raven or was it The Gold-Bug.  Has anyone ever published an analysis of this based on tallying the number of times each was reprinted while Poe was alive, and the geographic distribution of each?  MorbidAnatomy (talk) 13:41, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  most popular work? 

message: I don't find the included frequency analysis chart very useful, since each image has a different number of letters represented (and thus with differing widths), and uses unfortunate axis labels (percentage?). My chart (with letter frequency data from http://www.math.cornell.edu/~mec/2003-2004/cryptography/subs/frequencies.html) shows the one-one relationship of the substition cipher, and offers comparison to typical English language letter frequency. Any suggestions, or should I go ahead and make the substitution? --Quinn d (talk) 22:23, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: Your chart is more confusing. Letter freq and cipher freq need to be vertically aligned; plaintext freq is not known to the cryptanalyst so it should not be present. Glrx (talk) 04:22, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Frequency chart 

message: Some ten years after The Gold-Bug Dumas wrote The count of Monte-Cristo, who found a treasure by the means of a note written in invisible ink and rendered visible by an incident caused by sleepiness. --86.221.87.169 (talk) 13:29, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  The count of Monte--Cristo. 

message: I think the sentence "Poe's depiction of the African servant Jupiter is often considered stereotypical and racist from a modern perspective." is too timid. "From a modern perspective" it is racist without reservation (not mentioned in the article: (1) Jupiter is a willing servant, demanding to serve even after gaining his freedom; (2) he is an excellent tree climber and climbs barefooted, which makes him something between a man and a monkey). I'm pretty sure that even in the 1840s people like Frederick Douglass or Harriet Jacobs would have considered it racist. I'd suggest to drop one of the two restrictions, writing either, "... is considered stereotypical and racist from a modern perspective" (i.e. dropping "often"), or - perhaps better - : "is often considered stereotypical and racist." (i.e. dropping "from a modern perspective"). --Rsk6400 (talk) 19:03, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Racist depiction of Jupiter