Talk:Teresa Heinz

message: This article has become a political hack job, not a biography. The information about this woman's life is overshadowed by quick jabs and long diatribes intended to highlight implied negative traits. The overwhelming use of derogatory anecdotes in a biography without balance is unforgivable in a forum that purports to be a responsible disseminator of information.
:Please specify what in the article is incorrect. Lkjhgfdsa 0 (talk) 09:47, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  ? 

message: On http://www.bbc.co.uk/portuguese/noticias/story/2004/03/printable/040304_lucasmendes.shtml they have Maria Teresa Cristina Thierstein Simões-Ferreira.  I cannot find any other refences with Cristina as part of her name.
On a recent interview on Larry King Live, I recall her mentioning that she officially switched from the Republican party in response to some practices of a congressional candidate. Does anybody know more details? --NeuronExMachina 09:37, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Cristina?

message: No one has bothered to put any information about Heinz's Jewish ancestry to insert in to the article yet?  She comes from a mostly Sephardic family, which are the Spanish/Portuguese Jews (instead of the European ones, which are called the Ashkenazim). Actually it seems that her mother (Irene Thierstein) was an Ashkenazi Jew, and her father (Dr. José Simões-Ferreira) was a Sephardic Jew, so by all accounts she is a 'mixed' Jew!  --172.165.177.99 06:55, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The "Thierstein" lineage on her mother's side goes back to a Swiss-German non-Jewish immigrant to Malta. Irene's grandfather was conveniently named "Edward Christian Thierstein" (see genealogy here). Her mother's other ancestry is Italian and French. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 01:55, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Heinz's Jewish ancestry 

message: I have clarified the part of the article referring to the Heinz family to make it clear that the family and the company are not the same thing.  --ukexpat 19:41, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Made a clarification 

message: Since when are people anachronistically accorded the national background of the states that replaced the colonies wherein they were born? 'Mozambique was a place' is not reason enough to connect her to a country that was born when Mrs Heinz was an adult and did not even live in Mozambique! This nation was born 37 years after Teresa Heinz was. Giving her Mozambican heritage perpetrates presentism. However much she cares about Mozambique, she was a Portuguese born in her country's colony of Mozambique. I will remove those categories (again). Any objections? SamEV (talk) 19:38, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Do we call George Washington British, since he was born in a British colony? Heinz was born in a place called Mozambique. It was called Mozambique when she was born there. Nobody called it "Portugal". Further, she grew up there, so it is not just an accident of birth. I think the categories are proper.  ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 20:18, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

text: Actually, Will, George Washington was British, until 1783, when the US officially became an independent nation and he became a citizen of it. But Mrs Heinz did not become a Mozambican citizen. When Mozambique came into being in 1975, she was already a US citizen. Mozambique represents its own country, with its own nationality, citizenship, ethnicity, etc. Btw, it was called Portuguese East Africa when she was born. She's from an overseas, former part of Portugal, not the independent state of Mozambique. SamEV (talk) 20:49, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you want to create correct categories, such as "Portuguese East Africans", that are more precise then I won't object. However it is incorrect and misleading to omit all categories that refer to the place where she was born and raised. Places change names, but it doesn't mean people weren't born in the place. I don't think we have three categories: "People from St. Petersburg",  "People from Petrograd", and "People from Leningrad" - it's the same city regardless of the name.  ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 04:37, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A silly dispute? Too bad you feel that way, Will. Anyway, you seem to misunderstand. The issue here is her ancestry, which is being misrepresented as "Mozambican American". That's not about her place of birth, AFAIK. By all means, please enlighten me concerning this; point me to the Wikipedia policies or guidelines about those ancestry, birth, ethnicity, etc categories and I will drop this. And here's a similar example: Alexander Hamilton was born in St Kitts and Nevis, then a British colony. He's not categorized as a Nevisian American. He was British, and became American. The fact that there is now (since 1980) a nation called St Kitts and Nevis is not reason to make him retroactively a person of Nevisian ancestry, which is what adding "Category:Nevisian American" to his article would indicate, as I understand. Again, sincerely, if my understanding is incorrect, I'd like very much to be shown where it says so. Thanks, Will. SamEV (talk) 07:45, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Pardon the "silly dispute" comment. It's not silly, just unneccessary. Regaring Hamilton, he might well be labelled a "Category:Nevisian American", and probably isn't only because no one has ever gotten around to creating that category. He isn't categorized as a "British American" either. India used to be a British colony, and had been for a long time when Mahatma Ghandi was born, but I wouldn't call him "British" just because he was a born and raised in a colony owned by Britain. More generally, there aren't hard and fast rules for categorizing people by place of residence, birth, or heritage. One standard that's generally used is that wee should use categories that follow how a person self-identifies. Her bio on the foundation she heads says "Teresa Simoes-Ferreira was born and raised in Mozambique in East Africa." It doesn't say that she's a Portugese American, or that she is of Portugese descent. She might not dispute those, but she is proud of growing up in Africa.  ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 09:07, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You may be right about Hamilton. We'll see how that turns out. You bring up Gandhi. Well of course it would be wrong to call Gandhi "British", Will. But you do know that Gandhi was a British citizen, right? I presume you also know that he fought to change that: He fought to create an independent Indian nation. When he got his (and his countrymen's) wish, he ceased to be a British citizen, of his own free will, and became a citizen of India. Nothing of the sort happened with Teresa Heinz. She was born in one of her country's (Portugal's) colonies, then left, gave up her Portuguese citizenship and became a US citizen, hasn't gone back to her birthplace, and has said she does not intend to go back. Eventually that colony became its own country, but she's not part of that. She was Portuguese, and after that, American. A Portuguese American. I'd suppose that the lack of hard-and-fast rules does not mean that everything goes. Besides, you say: One standard that's generally used is that wee should use categories that follow how a person self-identifies. Ok, then: you note that her bio says she was born in Mozambique; but where does it say she self-identifies as a "Mozambican American"? You go on: It doesn't say that she's a Portugese American, or that she is of Portugese descent. Well wonder no more. As to whether she considers herself a Portuguese American, here's one particularly useful link (PDF) There you'll see her happily receiving the award as the Portuguese American Woman of the Year (my emphasis). (Also, here's something you missed on the same site you gave: "Some of her earliest childhood memories reflect her family’s experience, as Portuguese citizens living in the African colony of Mozambique..." ) As for her feelings about Mozambique, sure, she has fond memories of growing up there, and wants to help the country. On the other hand ... well, I alluded to it above, but let her tell you herself: "Like many former white residents of Mozambique, Heinz Kerry has never returned here. She has no friends or relatives here, nor any desire to visit. "I have basically not wanted to go back home since, because I just didn't want to see all the kind of changes," she says."  SamEV (talk) 13:23, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, call the place what you want, I think we should include categories for the subject's place of birth/upbringing. 19:53, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have no problem with that either. I only object to its name. (And again, it's not about the name "Portuguese East Africa" or "Mozambique"; it's the giving her the wrong ethnic or ancestral background purely based on place of birth) How about a compromise: rename the category to People born in Mozambique or Americans born in Mozambique? SamEV (talk) 13:39, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: People born in Mozambique is fine with me. I think Americans born in Mozambique may be too specific to be a useful category.  ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 20:09, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you. We're agreed, then. I'll make the changes now. SamEV (talk) 21:54, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

text: P.S. As I understood it, we were talking about all the similar categories: German-Mozambican, Portuguese-Mozambican, Mozambican-American, etc. SamEV (talk) 22:16, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

text: They're a different thing, and different from each other. Note the placement of the elements. Portuguese-Mozambican refers to people of Mozambique (not just colonials born there, but people really tied to the country) who are of Portuguese heritage. Mozambican-Portuguese are the opposite: people in Portugal who are of Mozambican heritage. Btw, Pereira's example is a bad one, as his article states: "Alberto da Costa Pereira (born in Nacala, Mozambique, 23 December 1929, died Lisbon, 25 October 1990) was a Portuguese goalkeeper. He was from a colonial white family." So that category contradicts the article it's in. He too belongs in "People born in Mozambique" (though I'd prefer "Portuguese born in Mozambique", but you'd reject it as too specific). SamEV (talk) 23:43, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This area of categorization needs some work. There may be many Portugese born in Mozambique, I just meant there'd probably be only one American born there. If you can go through the relvant categories and articles to make them rational then that would help. It might be worth posting a note on talk:Mozambique to see if there are other viewpoints.    ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 23:56, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I really see no problem with creating a category which starts out with just one person. I'll put checking out those other cats and articles on my 'to do' list. I'll go check out Mozambique talk right now. SamEV (talk) 00:09, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't mind one-entry categories either, but I've seen objections. I don't know what the policy language or current CfD norm is. A good practice with categories is to write a line saying what the intended scope is. And of course to categorize new categories so they aren't orphaned. I'm afraid that dealing with this article's categories is like picking at a thread on a garment.  ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 00:34, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, let's just wait and see what happens to the new category and take it from there. I wrote simply that it was people born there, the country or the former colony - it's not exactly an academic difference; but enough of that. I'll try my best, reading about the relevant Wikipolicies as much as possible. And yeah, I'd rather be done with the whole thing, too. SamEV (talk) 00:50, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for seeing it through. The trouble with many categories is that they are blunt instruments, and with many individuals the ethnic, national, and social heritage is unusually complicated. Most of these ethnic categories have gone through several revisions. It's a clumsy system.  ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 09:50, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No problem. It's done now. I updated the list at Mozambique talk to reflect the changes. SamEV (talk) 16:20, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mozambican American? 

message: Could somebody tell me how 13 places of education issue 12 degrees?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.231.241.108 (talk) 06:56, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Honorary doctorates 

message: Someone please remove the web address that is betweeen the banners on this talk page. It shouldn't be there, it does not appear to be anything to do with this article and is probably just someone promoting himself. It does not show up on the edit screen, hence I have no idea how it got there, nor how to remove it. Lkjhgfdsa 0 (talk) 09:53, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Web address between banners 

message: Fox Chapel is considered a suburb of Pittsburgh.  It should read Pittsburgh, PA  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:7:8500:982:A54A:C715:9B9A:BA41 (talk) 04:19, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pittsburgh 

message: The former candidate for first lady of the United States is known as Teresa Heinz Kerry, but her Christian name is Maria Teresa Thierstein Simões Ferreira. For the male line, her ancestry is entirely Portuguese (Jews from Portugal) and from her mother's side, her ancestors are British (better to say German Jews) who emigrated to South Africa, although her maternal grandmother was born in Egypt. Translated from this. Cruks (talk) 22:13, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see anything in this source mentioning her ancestor's religious affiliation or being from Germany. We should not insert original research or synthesis of sources. Snuggums (talk / edits)  19:03, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  I repeat it: she has no Swiss, nor Italian or French ancestry. Cruks (talk) 05:16, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text:  You've made your statement quite clearly. However, I'm curious if there's any particular reason why you seem to disagree with this reference stating otherwise. Snuggums (talk / edits) 05:32, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I cant read this reference and I see nothing there. Sorry. What do you mean exactly? Cruks (talk) 09:34, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: There seems to be a lot missing here. We go into so much detail about her parent's ancestry, but nothing of her childhood? What happened between her birth and her college years?ItsRainingCatsAndDogsAndMen (talk) 18:24, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Early Life