Talk:Walk-off home run

message: The picture used appears to be reversed. It seems to show the runner coming down the first base line. This is confusing to the viewer.108.28.120.122 (talk) 18:37, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Picture Question

message: I believe, and I could be wrong about some of the details, that Babe Ruth had one extra home run which didn't count as such because it was in a walkoff situation where they were down 1 and had two men on in the bottom of the ninth.  He hit it over the fence and it only counted as a double because of the rules of the time.  DandyDan2007 12:22, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: From Appendix B (Decisions of the Special Baseball Records Committee) of the 1996 Macmillan Baseball Encyclopedia: "Before 1920, when the team batting last won the game in the ninth or in an extra inning, the ruling was that the team could not win by more than one run. If a man hit an outside-the-park home run, which, under present rules, would have resulted in a victory by more than one run, he was given credit for a lesser hit and only the winning run counted. The committee originally voted that before 1920 any ball hit outside the park in a sudden death situation should be counted as a home run. However, after the committee had a further opportunity to review their ruling and polled their colleagues on the issue, they reversed their decision on May 5, 1969." 40 players lost home runs as a result, ranging from 1884 to 1918; Ruth's, on July 8, 1918, was the third to last. 14 were reduced to triples, 12 to doubles, and 14 to singles. 31 were in NL games, 5 in AL games, 3 in AA games and 1 in the PL. Jimmy Collins and Sherry Magee each lost two, and 36 players lost one each. 8 each were hit by the Boston Braves and NY Giants, and the Phillies had 5; I suspect short fences at the South End Grounds, Polo Grounds and Baker Bowl had something to do with it, and were partially responsible for the reverse decision. (Ruth's HR, which was ruled a triple, would have been at Fenway Park, where left field was 310 feet and the Green Monster hadn't yet been built.) MisfitToys 20:10, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shouldn't there be a piece about the original rule? 

message: After seeing this diff, I decided that there should be some guidelines as to what makes a walk-off home run exemplary.  Here's what I came up with.  Probably it should have at least three to be included:
# Caps a comeback from a large deficit
# Extra innings
# The team was losing at the time of the hit
# Teams involved in a pennant race
# Game or home run is otherwise notable
Nomar's hit mentioned at the beginning of this note meets the first four criteria.
Matchups 12:08, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regular season examples -- notability 

message: What Bobby Thomson's home run hit in a regular season or playoff game?  The only official playoff at the time was the World Series, but his home run was hit during a "playoff" series to determine the pennant.  So, it was not a regularly scheduled game, part of the regular season, yet it was not quite a playoff series either.  Any thoughts? Editor437 03:22, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I believe any one-game "playoffs" to determine a playoff berth are considered as part of the regular season. X96lee15 04:01, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, these games (such as the 1978 AL East playoff) count in the regular season, and Thomson's famous HR is included in his 1951 regular season total. MisfitToys 22:34, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Eddie Matthews won a NL HR title due to a homer he added in a playoff series in 1959 (he had been tied with Ernie Banks).  Ron Guidry picked up his 25th win in a playoff game.  Like it or not, these games are part of the "regular" season, not the "post." WHPratt (talk) 14:32, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Thomson home run a regular season or playoff home run???

message: From the lead section:
:The terms walk-off hit by pitch, the bases loaded base on balls dubbed the "walk-off walk" or walk-off balk have been applied, and the latter has been dubbed a balk-off (these types of questionable walk-offs are seen by some fans as cheapening the concept).
The first part of this sentence is quite incomprehensible to me. It needs rewriting, with quotation marks around the terms that are being mentioned so the reader can tell the difference between them and the active text. Hairy Dude (talk) 23:06, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: "Cheapening the concept" is still there (now at the end of the second paragraph of Section 1 on terminology) and is still incomprehensible, so I will take a stab at it. --Spike-from-NH (talk) 05:31, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Incomprehensible sentence 

message: I think this should be on here, because I don't think it is any less notable than the other regular-season walk-off homers on this list.  --Eastlaw (talk) 03:17, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, it's certainly less notable than most of them, though the Dunn and Garciaparra entries are somewhat suspect. Most of these had some historic importance apart from simply being dramatic (pennant-clinching, various records, 500th HR, etc.). What's really notable about Byrd's? MisfitToys (talk) 01:01, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Marlon Byrd]]'s grand slam

message: After editing Section 2 to list the baseball rules that govern the walk-off home run--and led to the problematic examples given in that section--I'm going to make the description of the Chris Chambliss home run less florid.  I regret deleting the context that the Yankees had not won a pennant in 12 years, but it is irrelevant, as Yankees fans likely would have swarmed onto the field anyway. --Spike-from-NH (talk) 14:02, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: W.H., MLB almost never changes the rulebook.  "Wimpy token" rituals still have their place in it.  A bigger example is the need to actually throw four balls at a batter you don't want to confront.  Dropping this requirement is often cited as a way to speed up the game (compensating for newly lengthened commercial breaks).  A successful intentional walk, though more certain than a basketball free throw, is not 100% certain, as the catcher must start the play inside the catcher's box but typically ends the play outside the batter's reach.  Requiring that runners actually complete the circuit of the bases is not a big problem and, as it is likewise not 100% certain, does sometimes make the game more interesting.  The need for a police escort is not so much an attribute of baseball as it is of New York City.  --Spike-from-NH (talk) 17:09, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I understand your points.  I used to get impatient with the people who grumbled about the intentional walk, given that it's a drop in the bucket as regards time wasting, and it usually occurs during a tense moment and gives the crowd four chances to boo and hiss.  Now I'm more realistic.  You'd have to witness a thousand intentional walks (that's 4,000 wide pitches) before something interesting happens, and after that the catcher will just cheat a bit more the rest of his career. And, if you wait long enough, someone will miss a base on a home run, which is not exactly a great moment.  Life's too short. WHPratt (talk) 20:32, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chambliss home run 

message: If the mercy rule is in place, the game will be called after seven innings if one team is ahead by 10 runs. Let us say the home team is leading by nine runs in the bottom of the seventh inning and the batter hits a home run, then the game will end by the mercy rule. Is this considered to be a walk-off home run?
:He hits the homer; the umpire (perhaps consulting the scoreboard or scorekeeper) declares the game ended; everyone walks off the field, exactly like the conventional case.  I'd say "Yes." --Spike-from-NH (talk) 15:28, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  What about games with a mercy rule like international competitions? 

message: Quote: "Note that Chris Hoiles' grand slam occurred with the cliché situation: two outs, full count, bottom of the ninth inning, and down by three runs."
My ultimate nit-pick: The "full count" spoils it just a bit, as only one ball was required to keep the comeback alive.  I'd say that the same situation but with an 0-2 count would rate higher on the dramatic scale. WHPratt (talk) 15:42, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: An 0-2 count would evidence greater batting prowess (as the pitcher can throw three bad pitches but the batter has no margin for error).  But I agree that the 3-2 count is "higher on the dramatic scale" and the broadcast color man might say, "There's no tomorrow."  (It's not maximum drama; not only might Ball 4 or a number of other outcomes short of a home run keep the game alive, and in some cases be a "walk-off," but the next pitch, or the next ten pitches, could be fouled off for no effect at all on the game situation.  Baseball's "drama" often involves letting the fans twist in the wind for a while.)  --Spike-from-NH (talk) 17:49, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Ultimate Cliché 

message: could we get Rien Bruans walk off grand slam to send the brew crew to the playoffs as the first pic?  His reaction with his hands raised above his head is uesd extensivly in the brewer community.  it would look better.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wsj608 (talk • contribs) 20:49, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Better walk off pic for article 

message: Bruntlett's walk-off play last night was awesome.  Nevertheless, the description of it in the second paragraph of Section 1 of the article tugs the paragraph too far.  The paragraph is a digression to the other uses of the term "walk-off," increasingly numerous, with an overview of the dissenting opinion that these uses water down the term.  "Walk-off triple play" is a notable term, but only because the triple play is notable.  At the least, the details should be relegated to a footnote.  In contrast, if some cub sports writer coins the term "walk-off ground out" to generate false newsworthiness, I suggest this article not mention it.  --Spike-from-NH (talk) 17:18, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Walk-off triple play 

message: Why not just call the article "game-ending home run"? That's what it's talking about. The article seems more interested in the (very brief) history of the term "walk-off", and obscures whether or not an article on game-enders is really required at all. Why not just merge this into "Home Run" or whatever? 74.65.209.146 (talk) 12:35, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  jargon for the sake of jargon 

message: Shouldn't the Shot Heard Round the World be included on this page somewhere?  It has its own article so it is definitely noteworthy.  I think it could be included under other postseason home runs section. AnandJRao (talk) 04:46, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shot heard round the world 

message: Yep, this debate again. Should we list it as an honorable mention? 71.192.117.233 (talk) 02:25, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grand slam single 

message: Shouldn't the lead mention that this term applies to baseball and softball?  I only bring this up because softball is mentioned in the "other leagues" listing (college softball world series). 76.29.27.158 (talk) 03:47, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Softball?

message: The whole problem with this saying, as well as others in baseball (such as "hit and run"), is that literally there is no such thing.  If one examines the laws of the game closely, the batter who hits an immediate game ending home run, must cross all bases.  The runner who scores the go ahead run, and all before him, must appropriately touch all bases, including home.  (...)  And if the batter himself is the go ahead run, he must cross all bases, including home.  Therefore, he, and any runner before him, who figures in, and contributes to the go ahead run, must cross all bases: he cannot walk off.  There is no "walk-off"; no such phenomenon, and I so agree with many of the comments on this page against this silly usage.  All players 'walk off' the field after the game is over, anyway, right?  One should simply use the terminology Game Ending (home run, or triple, etc.) in place of Game Winning, to make the distinguishment, not the improper, and somewhat ridiculous, term "Walk-off."  Even in the situation of a Wild Pitch... the player on third that scores the winning run, must touch home plate, not "walk off" into the dugout...  It is was, and should be, intended in reference to the pitcher, who would so walk off in disgust and disappointment.  This is what Dennis E. said and intended.   (John G. Lewis (talk) 04:57, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  There is no such thing, literally, as a Walk-off Home Run 

message: The retrosheet.org site has a table of suspended games at 
http://www.retrosheet.org/suspend.htm
and ten of these are annotated as having been resumed in the other ballpark.
* The game of 8/30/1948 began as Brooklyn at Pittsburgh, but was finished in Brooklyn. Pittsburgh scored 6 runs to win 12-11 when Stan Rojek doubled home two runs.  
* On 7/12/1975, a Minnesota at New York game had to be resumed in Minnesota's park. New York won with two runs in the bottom of the 16th, with Lou Pinella singling home Chris Chambliss for an 8-7 win. 
* In a game begun with Houston at Washington on 5/5/2009, Washington eventually won 11-10 when the game was finished in Houston, on an 11th inning error by Miguel Tejada. 
Thus are documented three instances of game-ending (I refuse to employ the "w" word here) hits (or other plays) by "Visiting" players, though no home runs. WHPratt (talk) 03:35, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Visitors" score game-ending run 

message: Substituted at 14:26, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Baseball assessment comment

message: Okay, this new entry doesn't meet the standard, but let's celebrate anyway. Right.
It happened with one out (hence, no "ultimate," whatever the score). I'll credit the batter with trying to hit a fly ball (but as the announcer noted, he just had to hit it out of the infield to win the game). Then again, a single or even a walk would have been just as good. (Any batter trying to hit a grand slam with two outs should probably be fined rather than listed here.)
Big deal! WHPratt (talk) 03:21, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: It's included because editors routinely update it.  I don't see a good reason to have it, but as long as it's un-eventful I see no reason to not have it. power~enwiki (π, ν) 16:33, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  Eh, fair enough! WHPratt (talk) 20:23, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

text: Check the edit history.  Back on 10 Oct 2011, someone ended a playoff game with a tie-breaking grand slam, and I knew it would find its way over here. This A later editor was thoughtful enough to redefine "ultimate" to include it and many others. We got yet another new one yesterday.  We need constant vigilance as everybody's favorite player's latest homer tries to sneak in! WHPratt (talk) 12:29, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: If the ESPN account is correct, last night's game-ending grand slam was off a 2-2 pitch and hence isn't "ultimate" by the given definition (which, for some reason, includes "full count"). Good luck correcting it and making it stand! WHPratt (talk) 13:14, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

text: I was wrong here. It happens. The definition of "ultimate grand slam" is for any game-ending homer that erases a 3-run deficit. The deal about two out and a full count was deemed a "cliche situation" when it was brought up, and that has supposedly only happened once or twice. Indeed, the recent event -- 2 and 2 with 2 out -- is about as desperate as one can get, except for 0-and-2. I promise to keep quiet about this in the future. (However, see if the next game-ending grand slam doesn't find its way here, regardless of the final score.) WHPratt (talk) 14:45, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: And, once again, the latest game-ending grand-slam homer is mistakenly credited as an "ultimate," rendering that particular definition meaningless. WHPratt (talk) 15:39, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

text: Here's an idea: as this article deals with game-ending home runs and further embellishment isn't required, why not leave the discussion of "ultimate grand-slam" entirely to the Grand slam (baseball) article?  Take the word "ultimate" out of here and let anybody who witnesses a game-ending grand slam update the entry, which would then be correct. WHPratt (talk) 16:56, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why does the most recent game-ending grand slam always become encyclopedic? 

message: The rule numbers cited in the Relevent rules section ceased to be correct in 2015. That year, the rules were reorganized. Here are the current rules. Please update the cited numbers to reflect their current locations in the rulebook. SMP0328. (talk) 04:32, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Outdated rule numbers