Talk:Upper Peninsula English

message: I've always been a bit leery of the list of unique words and phrases here. Some are legit, but mostly they seem to be a result of either changing 'th' or 't' to 'd' (Hart, Teer, Kart, Nort, Dem) or "v" to "f" (Taffern). This makes them differently-pronounced english words, possibly influenced by German or Scandanavian accents, but not German loan words or otherwise unique terms. The same pronunciations are used in many rural areas of the Midwest. In addition, I can vouch that some of these are used in the rest of Michigan (Kyot, Chicago) if not much of the midwest. I'd like to see some sources indicating a history of these words, or I'll be reorganizing this section to reflect that they are simply pronounciation differences. —dcclark (talk) 16:21, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I just went ahead and tore out a bunch of things which are wrong or not verifiable. I was pretty hard on some parts of it, so if anyone has a problem with my edits, please post here and we can haggle. :) There's a lot more to be done before this article is really up to snuff, though. —dcclark (talk) 03:13, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

text: ☭ Zippanova 07:45, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Unique Words

message: The current article is not quite true to my experiences as a Yooper from Houghton. This article melds the UP and Wisconsin into one unit, but the differences between the dialects of a L'anse native and a Milwaukee or even Green Bay native are distinct. The emphasis on the German influence on the dialect may be more true of Wisconsin than the UP, while the lumping of Finnish in with the other Scandinavian languages minimizes the influence of Finnish too much. Finnish affects sentence structure even to this day in the Copper Country area, with examples such as the removal of "to the" in constructions like "going doctors" or "going camp."
This article needs significant revision to be true of the Yooper dialect, which is distinct from the general Midwestern, including Wisconsin, dialects.
:What it really needs is to have its sources cited and to be swept clean of original research. --Angr/ 10:25, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not totally true to my experiences as a Yooper 

message: In "Upper Peninsula" article there is impressed how much Finns have contributed to Yooper culture... so isn't it the same in the dialect? This page contains no signs about Finnish influence.
: This article seems to contain a lot of original research (which it shouldn't), and as I've commented above, inaccuracies or misrepresentations. On the other hand, the Finnish influence is mostly at the west end of the UP, so there's an argument to be made that it's not an integral part of the dialect. Either way, it does need to be added. —dcclark (talk) 21:38, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where are the Finns? 

message: German may be important in Northern Wisconsin, but never in my entire life (all spent in the UP, with the exception of college) have I experienced a German immigrant community.  Not in any town, be it Ironwood, Bergland, Iron River, Ishpeming, or Eben.  Notice that 3 of these 5 towns have strong Italian communities, while not a one of them has a strong German presence.  Face it, there are few strong German communities in the UP, at least not in the central and western UP.
Meanwhile, the Italian influence on the Yooper dialect is not mentioned.  I grew up with the understanding the I spoke "North Iron Mountain" Italian "brogue."  Don't ask me, that's what I was told.  I believe there are two main facets of "Yooper."  The Finnish "sing-songy" influence and the Italian influence of tying the last syllable of words to the first syllable of the next word are the two streams of Yooper, as I have known them.  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.241.231.182 (talk • contribs) .
: If you know about the Italian influence on the Yooper dialect, please feel free to add it to the article -- always, of course, citing sources! (The article needs a lot more sources in general.) I'm not happy with the article as it is either, but don't know enough to seriously overhaul it. Also, you may want to sign your comment with four tildes. -- dcclark (talk) 05:48, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree.  I'm hoping to fix this article soon, along with any number of other things on my to do list :-p  Tomertalk 16:50, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: WAY overvalues German influences.....Where is the Italian influence?

message: I -- This page seems more like a Northwoods Wisconsin Page than a Yooper Page. Lots More German influence there, but still similar... Mabye it should be changed to "English of the Northwoods" Or something... Or not... Whatever
II --  Mabye can we a few Quotes or Examples be put up, like that Michigan Study one in the Link, or Something from "Escanaba in Da Moonlite," so People can see how it sounds. I'd do it, but I'm not really sure about copyright Laws...63.247.34.81 05:13, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  2 Things 

message: :The dropping of some t's, for example, mountain would be pronounced moun-in, and Houghton would be pronounced Hough-in
Is this meant to indicate a glottal stop where the hyphen is?  If so, this is also VERY common in Canadian English....Skookum1 08:04, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Mountain and Houghton

message: What is meant by the item "German definite articles (The = Da, Dem, Die)"? The definite articles in German are der, das, die, and dem is the dative form of das. I'm not familiar with Yooper, so someone needs to clarify or correct this. —a reader 06:24, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  German definite articles 

message: There is a chapter in it about the Yooper dialect. I'm probably going to upload much of the text of it here. Seems to have a lot of excellent info. I'll also add heavily to the article. I don't know about how to cite properly so I'll just somehow reference the book title, author, and pages of where I'm getting info and/or direct quotes from. It does seem to suggest what I've been thinking, that some of you seem to have been misled on, that in reality the western UP, mostly the Keweenaw, has far more dialect than the rest of the UP, which is relatively more standard English.  Peoplesunionpro (talk) 01:25, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Luckily I just added this article to my watchlist. Great job on finding a source. You can cite sources using the  template. Here's a great example of the template in use in the Tamil language featured article. It is best if you stop pasting copyrighted text here if you are willing to write the text into this article. Let me know if you want a deeper explanation or for me to do some examples. Royalbroil 03:30, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  new book: American Voices 

message: is covering words  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.9.129.11 (talk) 04:52, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  that map  

message: Ummm, I live in Milwaukee and I have no fucking idea what the hell this artice is talking about. You seriously think we say "I am going store"? Maybe in the middle of bumfuck nowhere, but 95% of people will not have that bad of an accent. 174.102.176.183 (talk) 04:51, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  this article is pretty fucking untrue 

message: I've never seen "eh" pronounced as "eh," only as "heh." Can anyone explain why this came to be?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.224.238.194 (talk) 15:58, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: "eh" pronounced as "heh"

message: __meco (talk) 09:11, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article should have some audio 

message: Are they still pronounced like in Finnish? Or is their pronunciation anglicised now?--93.32.72.201 (talk) 17:38, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  How are Finnish words pronounced? 

message: I'm interested in renaming the "Yooper dialect" page to something ending in "English," as in "Yooper English," "Upper Michigan English," "Upper Peninsula English," etc. Thoughts? This seems to follow WP: NCL, which recommends using the "PLACENAME English" format in cases whether there is not yet consensus on the name of the dialect/variety in the academic literature (in fact, see the Remlinger [2015] quotation below). I'm not sure that "Yooper dialect" is the most common name. Here's what I've found to be the primary name used in each of these articles I found about the variety:
*"Copper Country English" (though, also, "While there is no specific name for the particular local variety, often both it and its speakers are identified as Yooper" [119])
**Used here: Remlinger, Kathryn. "Everyone Up Here: Enregisterment And Identity In Michigan's Keweenaw Peninsula." American Speech 84.2 (2009): 118-137. Communication & Mass Media Complete. Web. 25 Oct. 2015.
*"(Michigan) Upper Peninsula (UP) English"
**Used here: Rankinen, Wil. "The Michigan Upper Peninsula English Vowel System in Finnish American Communities in Marquette County." American Speech 89.3 (2014): 312-347. Communication & Mass Media Complete. Web. 25 Oct. 2015.
*"Upper Peninsula dialect" or "Keweenaw dialect" (implied)
**Used here: Dorson, M. Richard. "Dialect Stories of the Upper Peninsula: A New Form of American Folklore." The Journal of American Folklore Vol. 61, No. 240 (Apr. - Jun., 1948), pp. 113-150.
*"Upper Peninsula" or "UP" (no specific term for the dialect alone)
**Used here: Plichta, Bartomiej, and Brad Rakerd. 2002. "Perceptions of /a/-Fronting across Two Michigan Dialects." Paper presented at the 31st annual conference on New Ways of Analyzing Variation (NWAV 31), Stanford, CA, Oct. 10–13.
*"UP Englishes" and "Yooper" (quotations from other sources within the article additionally give "Yoopanese" and "Yooperese")
**Used here: Remlinger, Kathryn; Joseph Salmons, Luanna von Schneidemesser. "Revised Perceptions: Changing Dialect Perceptions In Wisconsin And Michigan's Upper Peninsula." American Speech 84.2 (2009): 176-191. Communication & Mass Media Complete. Web. 13 Nov. 2015.
**Footnote: This source also discusses the coinage of the term "Yooper" itself only in the very late 1970s
"Saying Ya to the Yoopers" is another significant article, though I can't find it anywhere to read up on it.... Wolfdog (talk) 20:54, 1 November 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name