Talk:Flag of Greece

message: According to the Sipahi article, the Sipahis were exclusively of Turkic ethnic origin. This is dubious for that time and there's no in-text citation supporting the claim other than a translation of an Ottoman law book (uncited as well). In this article however, it is claimed that Christian Sipahis existed and were allowed to fly their own Christian flag at times. As this claim is unsourced as well I added a couple of "citation needed" tags in that particular section.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rhomaios (talk • contribs) 21:57, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inconsistency with other article 

message: I did a "sorta" revert on the previous Greek flag. The cross on the SVG version was way too wide based on what I have seen. Not having a program to convert things to SVG, I merely modified the old PNG to make the colors similar to the one on the new version. Yahnatan 13:22, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I know SVG is the preferred format for images like this, but please don't make blind reverts or changes. I have no way to make an SVG image, so I am going to keep the old flag on the PNG image (which is correct) until someone out there would be kind enough to make an SVG image that has the more correct proportions. Yahnatan 14:33, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

text: I have uploaded an SVG file of the old national flag of Greece. The cross on the previous versions were either too wide or too narrow; I have a number of scans of old postcards that depict this flag with what I assume to be the correct proportions - I can include an example in this article if needed. Dragases 06:40, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

text: I have replace the image of the current flag of Greece with a more accurate representation of the colours. I understand that there is no official shade of blue for the Greek flag, but in most cases (at least, on all official depictions) the shade is often a darker, royal blue. Dragases 09:48, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've uploaded the flags on the commons, which is what you should have done, too. Please don't do this in the future, but instead discuss such changes on the talk pages of the files at the Wikimedia Commons. Thanks. —Nightstallion (?) Seen this already? 16:52, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Any idea why the old flag isn't showing up on the main page anymore? Both of my browsers are showing a blank. The full-size flag *is* on the commons page though. Yahnatan 17:31, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Bad SVG code, possibly? Mh. —Nightstallion (?) Seen this already? 08:56, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The previous flag

message: :I know SVG is the preferred format for images like this, but please don't make blind reverts or changes. I have no way to make an SVG image, so I am going to keep the old flag on the PNG image (which is correct) until someone out there would be kind enough to make an SVG image that has the more correct proportions. Yahnatan 14:33, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have uploaded an SVG file of the old national flag of Greece. The cross on the previous versions were either too wide or too narrow; I have a number of scans of old postcards that depict this flag with what I assume to be the correct proportions - I can include an example in this article if needed. Dragases 06:40, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

text: I have replace the image of the current flag of Greece with a more accurate representation of the colours. I understand that there is no official shade of blue for the Greek flag, but in most cases (at least, on all official depictions) the shade is often a darker, royal blue. Dragases 09:48, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've uploaded the flags on the commons, which is what you should have done, too. Please don't do this in the future, but instead discuss such changes on the talk pages of the files at the Wikimedia Commons. Thanks. —Nightstallion (?) Seen this already? 16:52, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Any idea why the old flag isn't showing up on the main page anymore? Both of my browsers are showing a blank. The full-size flag *is* on the commons page though. Yahnatan 17:31, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Bad SVG code, possibly? Mh. —Nightstallion (?) Seen this already? 08:56, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Continued reverts

message: I had rewritten the greek article in the past and I've placed in comments here the history of the Greek Flag through the greek laws that describe it. I had totaly forgotten about it, till today. Someone should translate these into english, to avoid original research like that about 9 muses etc. The part about Byzantine Eagle is redundant, it should go to Double-headed eagle and it should mention sources. talk to +MATIA 17:09, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Greek Flag 

message: The references mentioned have English titles. If these books were written in Greek rather than English, would somebody add the correct Greek titles? Valentinian (talk) / (contribs) 23:09, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Refences 

message: What is the reference for this flag? As far as I know, the BBBB motto was of the Palaeologus dynasty, so it is impossible it was used in the 4th century.--RedMC 19:36, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This "Byzantine navy flag" is, as I read in FOTW, a reconstruction from a Naval Museum in Crete. No idea where they got it from though. There is no indication of the use of the 4 B's prior to the 13th century (at least not that I know of), but most Byzantine flags did indeed feature the cross, sometimes with letters in the four quadrants, mostly of religious significance (e.g. IC XC NI KA "Jesus Christ Conquers). As a contributor to this article, I am certainly not happy with its authenticity, and the reference to the 4th century is - most likely - wrong, but so far I've let it stand there as an example of all these cross-and-letters flags. Regards, Cplakidas 20:09, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In that case I'll reword the caption.--RedMC 20:35, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Byzantine navy flag 

message: In the end of the first paragraph, it writes: But some Greecians refer to the flag as dome-fiotso, meaning hatred.
Is this vandalism? Dome-fiotso? Never heard of that. Comment. 62.103.147.55 05:22, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The (also) anon user who did it, tried to conceal it by also changing the spelling of civilisation to civilization. I removed it. No idea what it means whatsoever. NikoSilver 11:19, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  But some Greecians refer to the flag as dome-fiotso, meaning hatred 

message: ...is probably urban legend. At least as long as it's unsourced. 74.53.9.2 14:52, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nine muses for nine stripes 

message: They no longer fly the old flag at the Old Parliament building in Athens. It was recently replaced with the national flag. Sv1xv (talk) 13:19, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Really? I was there about 2 weeks ago and it was there... Is this an official decision? If so, pity. Constantine   ✍  13:38, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Old Parliament building in Athens 

message: One of the pictures of the flag has a caption reading "Flag flown on Santorini". I was wondering if someone could add /Thēra after Santorini, or possible add "alternatively called Thēra". My problem is that Santorini is the Italian name for the island, and both names are acceptable. I would do it, but when I go to edit it, I can't spot the caption on the page.
Kostantino888Z (talk) 22:08, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Slight Problem

message: In this article and elsewhere the term "tetragrammic cross" is used (for the late Byzantine emblem). Apart from an apparent "transliteration" logic, I also have seen it described in several other sources as "tetragrammatic cross". Which is the correct version ? (I have a feeling the second should be more correct). Obviously I did not change anything. What I did change, though, was the mention of the "plain" Greek flag as "a white St'George's cross on a blue background". I am quite positive that St'George's cross is associated with red on white. In case there are arguments against it, please go ahead and make a correction. Skartsis (talk) 18:34, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: In western (mainly british) heraldry, the attributed arms of St George consist of a red cross on a silver (white) field. In Greece, where no heraldic tradition exists, simply there is no such thing as a "St. George's cross". SV1XV (talk) 20:34, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks, I agree. I also went ahead and changed "tetragrammic" to "tetragrammatic" as it appears more correct from a "transliteration" point of view, and as I have only seen it as such in every (other than Wiki-sourced) source I have seen. Obviously it can be changed, if anybody has arguments supporting the "tetragrammic" version. Skartsis (talk) 07:48, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: "Tetragrammic" was the form used in the Oxford Dictionary of Byzantium, which is why I changed it from "tetragrammatic". I don't know which is to be preferred, though. For the St. George's cross, as a design it is present in Byzantine art from the 12th century on, probably under the influence of the Crusaders, e.g. in a rather well-known icon (ca. 1300) of SS Sergius and Bacchus from Sinai . Constantine   ✍  08:47, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Tetragrammic cross" or "tetragrammatic cross" ? 

message: Anybody knows the exact codes of the colors?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.88.23.150 (talk) 12:28, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no exact specification in the constitution of the shade of blue on the Greek national flag. The current design has been depicted/flown in various shades in recent times (post junta); dark - no darker than Egyptian Blue, to as light as Sky Blue. Most non-Greek flag manufacturers I've seen on the web sell a sky blue version (which, in my opinion is WRONG). In most official representations though (from my experience having served in the Greek military), the most accurate shade of blue I remember seeing the national flag was closer to a blue between Egyptian blue and Persian blue. I'd go so far as to say that the shade on the flag depicted on Wikipedia in the Flag of Greece article (as of 28/10/2011) is too light. Dragases (talk) 02:50, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Actually there are no "wrong" versions, as long as the Greek Government does not bother to specify a specific shade of blue using modern color specification standards. SV1XV (talk) 04:57, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: OK, maybe instead of "wrong" I should have written "extremely uncommon". Regardless of what is depicted on the site of the Presidency, the shade of blue I've seen used on all examples of "official" (i.e. government, military) national flags have been closer to the shade I mentioned above. I believe this is a better indication of which shade is officially preferred. Dragases (talk) 14:03, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I beg to differ. If you remember, the color of the flag at the opening ceremony of Athens 2004 was approximately . The current version on wikipedia is a compromise between the very light  and very dark  versions in use. I chose it for that exact reason. It sits between the two extremes and it is the color shown in the presidency website. --Philly boy92 (talk) 15:32, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Then, we agree to disagree. I have a sewn national flag which was obtained during my time in the military, and it is the same shade as all the national flags we used in an official capacity (i.e. on bases, exercises, parades etc.); it is closer to Egyptian blue in shade. All Naval vessels I've seen fly the flag with the darker shade. In any case, that's my opinion. Cheers. Dragases (talk) 04:19, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

text: The Flags of the World website at any rate has the shade of blue as Pantone 286 c , which is indeed darker than the current version. Constantine   ✍  10:54, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Whats the source that specifies the flag color as Panton 286? As far as I'm aware the government has not released any official colors. The ones in the current flag are based on the flag shown in the site of the Presidency, which is something between the very dark and very light variations in use throughout the country. The previous version was too dark. --Philly boy92 (talk) 14:08, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flag Colors 

message: Returning to the Flag of Greece article after a long time, I see that many of the original arguments remain (something that may help perfect the article and promote relevant research). I also see that some flags heve been added, including the supposed "Kallergis flag". 
I'm afraid that the particular depiction (Kallergis flag) is completely arbitary. Since the existence of an old (17th century or earlier) flag that is virtually identical to modern Greece's sea (and later national) flag  is obviously a VERY important issue, I tried to research it. Following the citations of all relevant old books I could not locate any "original" source (as is usually the case, one copies the other and thus the info propagates), just one reference that could perhaps lead to one, i.e., Sathas's "Κρητικόν Θέατρον", a book orginally published in Venice in the 1860s (every time I attempted, the National Library in Athens responded "not available"- anybody tried to find it?).
So I tried to seek a theoretically more "original" source: the Kallergis descendants. Thus I contacted Mr. Manolis Kallergis, who has published several books about his family's history. Mr. Kallergis confirmed a coat of arms with blue and white (actually silver) stripes, which anyway can still be seen in churches in Crete to this date, but knew nothing about the exact pattern that looks identical to today's Greek flag. Also, there is no "concrete" evidence about any Nikephoros Phokas's flag that looked like that. 
In other words, the challenge remains: will anybody be able to locate any more substantial evidence about Phokas's or Kallergis's flags/coat of arms ? THIS would be a great contribution. Skartsis (talk) 15:55, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Due to the (very) limited bibliography on the evolution of the Greek flag, at least as far as I'm aware, most of the information comes from the website of the Greek armed forces and the research that they have done. I would be very interested in reading some of Mr. Kallergis' books, if you can provide some titles for us, in relation to the subject. -- Philly boy92 (talk) 16:34, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Just a couple of quick notes: I largely share Skartsis' concerns on the Kallergis flag. A word of caution also re the Greek Armed Forces website, as it probably relies itself mostly on the Kokkonis book which is used as a textbook in military and police academies. I'd not rely on it for much before 1821. I also have some concerns on the civil flag of the Cretan State, with the stripes. Aside from the Italian website, is there any other source that has it? Constantine   ✍  18:21, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  In this site, see bottom of the page, there is one relevant book (with, actually, one Kallergis coat of arms on the cover!). So see if you can contact Mr. Kallergis and if you have better luck than me. Philly boy: don't consider the Armed Forces Website a "scientific" source. Absolutely not ! Some people wrote books in the early 1900's, and whatever they wrote has been reproduced and propagated to this date, in typical Greek fashion, without further research. I've made this mistake myself. I am not ready to classify all this info as "garbage", but we all DO need to find some more hard evidence about such important matters. Whoever can unearth something substantial in the Kallergis issue will have made a truly scientific contribution. Skartsis (talk) 15:07, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: For the record, there are several examples of the Kallergis arms at http://pandektis.ekt.gr/pandektis/, for instance,  and . While they have the blue-and-white stripes, there is nothing to suggest either a) a cross in a canton or b) that they were ever used as a flag, let alone that they inspired the Greek flag. Constantine   ✍  12:17, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Coats of arms were (and still are) displayed as a flag which is called an armorial banner. However, there is no evidence for a direct connection between Kallergis arms and the greek flag. SV1XV (talk) 19:57, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

text: Nobody said it was gonna be easy, Folks! These images are well known, as is the fact that they don't correlate with the theory about the flag with the cross in the canton etc. The question is whether we can "unearth" evidence (if it really exists) about such claims, included in the old books we have talked about. The one possible lead I am aware of, could be in Sathas' book about Cretan theater (not available in both National and Parliament libraries). Skartsis (talk) 15:37, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kallergis Flag 

message: War flags are also used by the Army NCO Academy and the Police Academy. They paraded with war flags on Independence Day 2011. SV1XV (talk) 13:29, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  War flags 

message: If I may ask, what happened to the reverse of the Flag of the Scared Band that showed Saints Constantine and Helen? Has been deemed unrealistic or fake? 
Kostantino888Z (talk) 21:42, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Good question. AFAIK the reverse did not have this wreathed cross, but a cursory search in the internet revealed such example. We are now faced with two versions of the reverse, obviously something isn't right here. Constantine   ✍  12:39, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: From my research, the flag of Alexander Ypsilantis was different from the flag of the Sacred Band. The Ypsilantis family continued to use the flag with the wreathed red cross, but the sacred band (whose flag featured Constantine and Helen) was discontinued after the defeat of the Sacred Band in Romania in 1821. Although they both were tricolor, the color arrangement differed; the Sacred Band used a tricolor of red-white-black (reverse: , obverse: ) and Ypsilantis used a flag of black-white-red () the reverse of which was similar to the obverse version of the flag of the Sacred Band with the phoenix rising from its ashes. They were both inspired by Rigas Feraios' flag of red-white-black (). --Philly boy92 (talk) 12:57, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Reverse of the Flag of the Sacred Band

message: The title of the article is 'Flag of Greece', so I assume that various sections are more or less irrelevant or at least not closely connected with the title but they would fit in an article called 'Flags used in Greece through the centuries'. So we have, galleries, galleries and galleries, nearly all flags used by the Armed forces, or during the War of Independence and of course many of them are not even similar to the official flag.
Of course the most irrelevant section is the 'similar flags', which contains no prose, and is just another gallery in this article. So for consistency with Flag Countries articles and per Wikipedia:Images#Image_choice_and_placement, the specific gallery needs to go and some trimming in various other sections also necessary.Alexikoua (talk) 21:47, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Alexi. "similar" galleries are OK for commons, but not of any real encyclopaedic value, unless one or more can be proven to have provided direct inspiration for the Greek flag, or been inspired by it, which is a completely different criterion either way. Constantine   ✍  08:56, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: 'Similar' flags section

message: I just saw a documentary (One Day in September) which shows some archive videos from the 1936 Olympic Games opening ceremony in Berlin, and the flag being displayed isn't the flag of the Kingdom of Greece (the one with the sole cross with a crown in the middle), but the current flag (stripes and Hellenic cross in its canton). So I am confused about the actual Greek flag during 1936. Thoughts? --Pinnecco (talk) 16:57, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The current Greek flag was always the co-national flag alongside the plain cross "land" version. It was defined in some old books I have as a "sea flag" and as a "flag for abroad", while the "land" flag was used mostly inside Greece (where the "sea" flag was also very popular, however). Constantine   ✍  17:02, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Furthering the topic of Greek flag usage in Olympics, I also noticed that Greece used the current flag  at the 1976 Winter Olympics, but the simple cross flag  at the 1976 Summer Olympics a few months later. However, the Wikipedia articles about those two events and Greece's performance in those events both use the simple cross flag  Why is that? —  Andreyyshore  T  C  15:04, 26 Oct 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  1936 Olympics 

message: I doubt the presidential standard was adopted in 1975, since the 1978 law clearly states that the Presidential standard is to be determined.  Unfortunately, I have not managed to find any law that specifies the presidential standard. Dimboukas (talk) 00:56, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Presidential standard 

message: http://s22.postimg.org/7orzv270h/Flag_of_Greece_4.png  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.84.216.225 (talk) 01:50, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grecoeuropean Union Flag 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The lead currently states that "Blue and white have many interpretations, symbolising the colours of the famed Greek sky and sea (combined with the white clouds and waves), traditional colours of Greek clothes in the islands and the mainland, etc." The "Greek islands" part is dubious and unsourced. At least two Greek sources say that the Aegean islands' houses were not painted blue and white before the 1938–1974 period (, ). In other words, the statement in the lead is anachronistic and misleading; it suggests that the flag was patterned after the colors of the Aegean islands' houses, while in fact reliable sources indicate that the colors of the Aegean islands' houses were partially influenced by the colors of the Greek flag. --Omnipaedista (talk) 19:11, 13 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Dubious claim in the lead

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Blue is the opposite of red. Specifically cyan blue   As such its shows the antiottoman feeling.  Ottoman flag is red in this period.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RGB_color_model#/media/File:Color_wheel_circle.png  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:587:9813:8800:28D9:426E:934C:5B4C (talk) 20:18, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  For the issue of white and blue colors. 

message: The article mentions "the sea flag" several times, but never defines which of the many flags is this sea flag.  --Lambiam 20:32, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sea flag