Talk:External ballistics

message: Perhaps I'm misunderstanding but reading the section on the Magnus Effect, I can't tell what the difference is between this and the gyroscopic preservation of angular momentum. Is the Magnus effect a more specific name for this, used in balistics? or is there a difference which I didn't spot? 81.97.166.238 (talk) 23:06, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Magnus Effect

message: Agree The Bullet drop information is properly part of this subject and is mostly if not fully already covered here. Arthurrh 18:25, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge

message: The magnitude of the drift depends on the location, azimuth, and time of flight.
The formula for the Coriolis acceleration in the Coriolis effect page doesnt show the direction of fire to affect the magnitude, as both north and easterly components of velocity affect the coriolis acceleration equally. I dont think that the azimuth/direction of fire affects the drift. Diablod666 18:37, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Does the magnitude Coriolis drift depend on the azimuth? 

message: A friend (research physicist, former Army sniper and now competive shooter) says that some bullets actually do rise even if the bore is level, contradicting what is stated in the article.  He writes (CG means center-of-gravity):
"The bulk of the "apparent" lift is due to the different height of the sights (most pronounced with a scope raised at ~ 1.5" above the bore) that once sighted in at 25 yds, it will hit point of aim at around 220 yds again.  So this is "apparent" lift.  However, for a long range match bullet with the CG not in the geometrical center front-to-back and high ballistic coefficient, there's a small angle of attack once the bullet escapes the bore that provides a small amount of lift.  For the vast majority of rifles bullets used in hunting, the CG is not behind the geometrical center and there's no perceptible rise. Hunting bullets are mostly made with exposed lead tips for expansion in flesh, while most match bullets have a hollow cavity in the nose (BTHP) precisely in order to shift the CG toward the base of the bullet.  How noticeable the body lift of a match bullet at something like 3000 fps is, is argued back and forth but the fact that heavier match bullets tend to exhibit better accuracy (in minutes of angle) at say 300 yds compared to 100 yds, is an indication of some body lift and delayed stabilization."
In any case, the laws of physics do not prohibit a bullet from rising relative to the bore direction, as aerodynamic forces can cause lift due to a positive angle-of-attack, as my friend notes.  I believe the article is in error on this point.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ewolin (talk • contribs) 18:25, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The article mentions some subtle affects that effect trajectories in the vertical plane. Are your ideas pointing to the Magnus or Poisson effect, etc. and can they be referenced? The phenomenon of smaller angular groups at longer ranges also termed bullets "going to sleep" is a phenomenon with multiple explanations (aerodynamic jump near the muzzle, epicyclic swerve, drift, stability changes). Here is an interesting text/video regarding epicyclic motion of a bullet http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/epswerve.html. The article contains text plus a reference regarding research into guided projectiles where this phenomenon is mentioned as observed by researchers for an experimental fin (no spin) stabilized projectile. I think the article can contain debatable, not elaborately studied or not well understood information as long as readers can easily see that.--Francis Flinch (talk) 12:10, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Body lift can cause a bullet to rise 

message: States that a 300 grain bullet was used. Should it not state caliber also? Msjayhawk (talk) 14:29, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Predictions of several drag resistance modelling and measuring methods

message: http://www.snipersparadise.com/ballistics/bulletbasics.htm is currently an Error 404 203.129.45.210 (talk) 00:37, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  error 404 - snipers hide 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I just reinstated some changes I made yesterday.  Here is the link to the diff: 
I think the new version is much clearer and less garbled, but more importantly, it removes several erroneous statements.  For example, the old text confuses the centrifugal force with the Eötvös effect, which is actually the vertical component of the Coriolis force, and erroneously claims that it is automatically compensated when line-of-sight is the reference.Rracecarr (talk) 16:28, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for the reply.  I think the section is currently in a pretty decent state.  However, I am dubious of the claim that the equivalence principle is relevant--is there any source for this?  I also don't think the Eötvös effect reference () is very good: it is hosted at an extertal website, but is obviously a direct copy from the internal Eötvös effect page. Rracecarr (talk) 00:09, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: The Loránd Eötvös and Eötvös experiment articles contain some more information. I will remove the connection with the weak equivalence principle to avoid overly complex concepts. The (vertical) effect of moving trough the gravity field of our planet is counterintuitive enough for the general reader in its simplest form. When using the Paris Gun during World War 1 the Germans had to factor in Coriolis.--Francis Flinch (talk) 09:30, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Coriolis 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Currently, the article states that:
  In super gun artillery cases, like the Paris gun, very subtle relativistic effects that are not covered in this article can further refine aiming solutions.
The muzzle velocity of the Paris gun is 1500 m/s and firing range is 100 km, and these numbers are far lower than the ones that usually come up in the presence of relativistic effects.
Is there any credible resource for this claim?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.3.205.210 (talk) 09:38, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Relativistic Effects 

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018)