Talk:Nanobacterium

message: Well, it's been a while since since this last post.  As far as I can tell,
they bear a great likeness to each other.  Nobody has published/equated the two of them directly (especially since it's controversial).  Instead of merging the two, Nanobe should exist seperately and have links to each other.  It may have similar information in both pages, but until Philippa Uwins publishes a paper saying nanobes are nanobacteria... we shouldn't merge them Sp00n17 23:05, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we all agree it's not certain that nanobes are nanobacteria, so until Ms. Uwins is sure about this, it should say precisely that, that it isn't certain that nanobes are nanobacteria (this has already happened over at nanobe, so it's about time we put it here, right?) Kreachure 17:24, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

text: It's not certain that they aren't the same, either.  I think they are related enough to put on the same page, since both are speculative, anyway. — Omegatron 12:09, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge with nanobe? 

message: Can we get a real image?  Something like this? — Omegatron 21:04, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Seems to be a shortage of public domain images. Got a scanning electron microscope and mineral prep gear?  (SEWilco 07:08, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  That's why we allow fair use images. — Omegatron 14:18, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Let's see if a contributor does have a SEM or existing photos to donate.  (SEWilco 19:25, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

text:  So far none.  I'm not expecting a SEM for Christmas.  There's no box under the tree which is the right size.  (SEWilco 06:34, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image 

message: The following is a list of observations and oddities which led to the discovery of whatever these things are.  This might end up in the article so feel free to edit.  Start by adding material, as it isn't necessary to prune true info until it goes in the article.  I'm starting with some info from "Dark Life" and detailed sourcing will be needed for material which goes in the article.  (SEWilco 06:30, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clues and questions 

message: This article needs to desperately cite its references. Peer-reviewed research if possible. Direct quotes would be good. For example:
A paper published in 2000 by a team led by a dentist John Cisar USNIH hypothesized that the "self-replication" was, in fact, an unusual form of crystalline growth, and that his contamination may have been the source of the DNA. However, the Cisar group did not as part of their study examine nanobacteria samples from the Kajander group, therefore critics observed that without such a control sample the assertion that these were self-replicating crystals or contamination had not been substantiated.
There is no need for such a control sample to substantiate the claim of contamination with foreign DNA. A matching sequencing result will do; the matching foreign sequence is the control as the working hypothesis is "these things have nucleic acids, but they are too small to have a conventional (or even unconventional) genome." (To refute the crystallization claim you would indeed need a control as outlined above. But that's not what the paragraph states). Dysmorodrepanis 10:20, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Cisar/citations

message: Some pregnancies are threatened by extensive calcification of the placenta. Currently, the etiology of this disease is unknown. One paper suggest that nanobacteria are responsible. The authors say, 
"The nature and mechanism of PPC development has not been defined as yet. In the present investigation, we have tested the hypothesis that the molecular basis of PPC development consists of nanobacteria-induced calcification in infected female placenta. Electron microscopy findings support this hypothesis. The initial stage of micro-calcification may originate from the external surface of individual nanobacteria-like particles found mainly in placental extracellular matrix....The micro-cavities contain free nanobacterial-like particles, which may relate to atypical Gram-negative bacteria....  We hypothesize that the increased placental calcification might be caused, at least in part, by nanobacterial infection."(). ReasonableLogicalMan(Talk 16:53, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Nanobacteria and pathological placental calcification (PPC)]

message: Aortic valve stenosis is a often a disease of growing old. Gradually, calcification of the aortic valve occurs and results in stenosis. This can occur in normal aortic valves and is considered a part of "old age." This "old age" aortic stenosis often becomes symptomatic in the 70s or 80s and is associated with calcification. Researchers at West Virginia University have suggested that this pathology may actually be due to nanobacteria. If true, this raises the possibly that much aortic valve stenosis surgery can be prevented. ().ReasonableLogicalMan(Talk 17:05, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Nanobacteria-associated calcific aortic valve stenosis

message: There are many kinds of arthritis. Osteoarthritis is considered a disease of old age. The elderly are often on numerous medications to fight their arthritis, and the etiology of that arthritis remains unknown, or is chalked up to "old age." Rhuematoid arthritis is considered an autoimmune disease and afflicts many people, causing joint pain and inflammation. Some research, however, suggests that osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis are caused by nanobacteria. One study says, "We investigated the existence of nanosize particles in synovial fluids of rheumatoid arthritis and osteoarthritis patients.... The nanobacteria-like particles exist in synovial fluids of arthritis patients. The possibility of their existence and pathogenesis in various diseases should be verified cautiously." (PMID: 16674119) ReasonableLogicalMan(Talk 17:21, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Add sourced information to the article.  There are several medical calcification items there already.  This is not surprising, as nanobacteria have been found in several warm mineral waters and the human body is a warm water environment.  (SEWilco 17:52, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Nanobacteria and arthritis

message: The Mayo clinic team seems the first to report isolating nanoparticles (nanobacteria) from atherosclerotic aortic walls (paper published in 2004), therefore the 2005 paper by László Puskás was not the first report.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by BatteryIncluded (talk • contribs) 16:23, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: 2004, Isolation from atherosclerotic aortic walls

message: Sheesh --68.101.188.124 (talk) 07:09, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Nope, not the whole article.  The things seem to exist.  -- SEWilco (talk) 07:18, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Is this whole article a Nanobac stock pump and dump scheme?

message: The lower bound on the size of a viable cell, seems to depend on the known thickness of cell membranes and some requirment on the volume of the
interior of the cell. Some theories hold, though, that early life would have involved chemical reactions on the exterior surfaces of cells, instead
of the way our own cells operate internally from ingested molecules. So, if the "guts" of the cell were on the outside instead of the inside, what
would the lower limit be?
Carl Ponder (talk) 10:05, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds like a primordial chemical soup.BatteryIncluded (talk) 02:09, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Surface chemistry 

message: Shouldn't it be titled in plural - Nanobacteria (like Bacteria)? GregorB (talk) 16:29, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article title 

message: An anonimous guest wrote in the article: "Please note that Nanobac Pharmaceuticals was publicly traded as a penny stock. Events surrounding Nanobac Pharmaceuticals, its management and its investor relations may throw the integrity of its research into question as well. It may be best to verify any research coming from Nanobac Pharmaceuticals."
It is expected that most scientists progress their research work into development (R & D). Name ONE pharmaceutical company not interested in it.  -BatteryIncluded (talk) 05:20, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  R & D 

message: There are people who believe that not all life requires DNA, and that life outside Earth could exist wthout DNA. For instance, in 2001 there were reports about red rains of Kerela being composed of foreign microbes. The question of life without DNA is currently being discussed for the proposed class of nanobacteria.   Also, there was a strange report in 2009 in Mexico about a baby alien who didn't have DNA.    ADM (talk) 09:32, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The red rain in Kerala turned out to be sand particles and terrestrial spores. Regarding the weird dead alien, you are talking about Michael Jackson, right? I read that it was Elvis who found his body. BatteryIncluded (talk) 02:51, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Extraterrestrials without DNA

message: I've flagged this article as . It doesn't properly abide by WP:NPOV. For example:
* "Albeit, later findings identified the DNA as contamination." No; someone (who?) later said that the DNA was contamination; "identified" takes the POV that this was correct.
* "stated that the so called 'self-replication' was, in fact, a form of crystalline growth" – is the phrase "so-called" a direct quote? If so, make this clear by extending the quotes. As written it implies that Wikipedia thinks it was only "so-called".
* "He showed that the only DNA detected in his specimens was contamination from environmental bacteria." No; he said that this was the case (see WP:Words to avoid).
* "These findings were confirmed in 2005 by László Puskás". No; László Puskás said that he had confirmed these findings.
Peter coxhead (talk) 21:14, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The article was greatly improved by User:TimVickers's edits, so I agree that the NPOV flagging should be removed. Peter coxhead (talk) 16:38, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV issues 

message: I've re-written one sentence to be more neutral. I've also removed a part which was referenced by http://www.physorg.com/news128167633.html. If you look at this it quotes Martel & Young, who quote the 1999 Workshop (note 19 in Martel & Young). So it doesn't belong in a section on 2008 articles. Peter coxhead (talk) 16:36, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  2008 articles 

message: It seems odd to have so many dated sections, with different titles (e.g. "1981-1992 discoveries" vs. "1998–2000 articles"). I also note that a 2009 paper has been added under the 2008 heading. I'm going to be bold and merge the sections into two. Peter coxhead (talk) 10:59, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  So many sections not needed 

message: The cryptic "bioreactor that simulates conditions of space travel" is nothing more than a cylindrical tissue culture plastic flask filled with DMEM media and placed on a roller, so that the CNP do not settle down. Sorry, no complex artificial gravity neutralizer....  --BatteryIncluded (talk) 17:20, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bioreactor 

message: There's an excellent Sci Am article, Jan. 2010, entitled "The Rise and Fall of Nanobacteria," by John D. Young and Jan Martel. I couldn't figure out how to edit "reflist" though, so I'll leave it to a guru.
<<((:-:))>>0X0<<((:-:))>> (talk) 05:05, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I added it to the list of additional reading. --BatteryIncluded (talk) 18:27, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd think the "bacteria" reference is by now (post-2008) fringe science at best, and crackpottery at worst. A more neutral term should be used throughout. If anything seems certain, these things are not bacteria, just as viroids are not viri. Dysmorodrepanis (talk) 22:10, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Scientific American Article

message: It is is suggested that a Wiki author of note remove the following text.
"One skeptic dubbed them "the cold fusion of microbiology", in reference to a notorious episode of erroneous science.[6]
This comment is erronous because cold fusion is currently under serious investigation after an unnecessary witch hunt in the 1990's.  See source http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/04/17/60minutes/main4952167.shtml.  
Note that while this source - 60 minutes is in not an elite source for scientific, it is noteworthy for those who use mainstream media to form their opinions.   
A search of cold fusion using google scholar reveals hundreds of articles from Ph.D.'s from accredited universities such as...
H Kozima, T Mizuno - Proc. JCF9, 2009 - geocities.jp
Reports ofCFRL (ColdFusion Research Laboratory), 92, pp. 1-11 (October, 2009) Investigation
of the Cold Fusion Phenomenon in the Surface Region of Hydrogen Non-occlusive Metal
Catalysts; W, Pt, and Auf Hideo Kozima* and Tadahiko Mizuno** *Cold Fusion Research ..
:If the guy actually made this claim, it's his opinion and can be cited as such (with his name and a source). Should there be something to CF (Schwinger's ideas, IMHO, look promising), he's the fool. The case for CF seems to me definitely better than the case for nano"bacteria", and even CF ist a decidedly minority opinion. Dysmorodrepanis (talk) 22:06, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cold fusion 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060107205619/http://www.msstate.edu/dept/geosciences/4site/nannobacteria.htm to http://www.msstate.edu/dept/geosciences/4site/nannobacteria.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060107205619/http://www.msstate.edu/dept/geosciences/4site/nannobacteria.htm to http://www.msstate.edu/dept/geosciences/4site/nannobacteria.htm
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thread_title:  External links modified (February 2018) 

message: "Research tends to agree that these structures exist, and appear to replicate in some way. However, the idea that they are living entities has now largely been discarded" — I'm finding myself confused here—what criteria of "life" do they not meet? This is probably really obvious to experts, but I'm not, so it would be nice to have that included on this page. Yitz (talk) 21:51, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: See Life#Biology for characteristics of life. The only characteristic they seem to exhibit is reproduction, they may have other characteristics but they are unconfirmed. This reproduction is unexplained, but may be a result of physical processes rather than biological ones, rather like the replication of crystals. --Jules (Mrjulesd) 22:27, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  What makes it not living?