Talk:BioShock/Archive 2

message: The screenshot used to illustrate the "gameplay" section is not very representative of the game. 75.36.176.51 22:40, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Gameplay Screenshot

message: There is a third Big Daddy that is very unshown. Is it confirmed that it is in the game? I think it looks the coolest looking. On one of the refences for an IGN Blog on this wiki has all big daddies has a banner. (the one about the little sisters) So, is this third one in the game? I hope so!
There are probably alot of different big Daddies.  They all just wear differet diving suits.  I'd like to see if they have different weapons/upgrades for each suit 209.250.132.217 02:23, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, good game articles will have a development section, and if there's exceptional differences in the original version (as shown to the world) and the actual version, with such changes being verifiable and notable, it's useful to include that in the article.  See, for example, Okami (which I just got to GA) which shows photorealistic vs watercolor renders.  Now, again though, we need verifiability.   Looking at that picture doesn't tell me much; if there's an article to go along with it, it would be better.  (I haven't had a chance to look through the free art-book that came out last week, but I suspect you'll find more in there). --Masem 13:26, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well actually, the dude is right. There were going to be 3 main big daddys, but one was cut and the bouncers and rosies were to be focused on. It was to be called a "slowpro" (slow protector) and it was gonna be the grenadier barrage big daddy with a grenade launcher one hand, rocket other. It did have a weird looking face too. Got it from the LE making of DVD.--70.23.118.114 18:48, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Unknown Big Daddy

message: As some of you may be aware, due to a fault of some kind at fileplanet, the unencrypted version of the BioShock demo was put up, and was accessible yesterday. They have since removed the file, with the as intended encrypted preload version for subscribers the only available file, but of course the demo is now spreading around torrent sites. Should this be mentioned in the article? 68.151.136.226 17:04, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's an event that will no longer be relevant after another .. 6 hrs? (as I type this) - I would say no. --Masem 17:10, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Leaked Demo

message: I noticed that it was ranked 1 on Game Rankings in the opening which it is not. Please do realise that regardless if you like the game and it so far has great reviews, such information is subject to change so much it shouldn't be in the opening paragraphs. Plus like I've said, it isn't ranked yet due to a small number of reviews. I know there are plenty of new edittors since its realesed and most of you here who will love the game and do everything to make it look good here but this is wiki, at it is neutral so do make sure such claim are real and not what you "predict". Stabby Joe 18:12, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reception section revisited 

message: I feel fairly strongly that this section should be removed.  It's given undue weight based upon a few forum posts.  Comments? Docta247 21:18, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just done it. Parjay ► Talk  21:26, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

text: A blog post with one comment? I hardly think that meets the notability bar... Achromatic 18:25, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Number of comments is a pretty crappy barometer for the popularity of a blog entry.  It's had a few thousand hits. --Dark54555 18:57, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hardly. People comment on things they feel strongly about. People will read a whole forum as a matter of course and that is in no way an agreement. Docta247 19:35, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lack of "Southpaw" controls criticism 

message: I refer to the issue that can be read on here and here. Long story short, the retail PC edition apparently is limited to a grand total of two installs, due to the intentional design of the SecuROM authentication scheme. Needless to say, this is a very serious problem with the product that should be mentioned in the article. Any ideas on how to best incorporate it while being neutral on the issue? CABAL 14:09, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Go ahead and add them next to criticism section. Not quite sure who will delete them. They is lot of deletions and merge going on in wikipedia. Best of Luck. --SkyWalker 14:17, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My suggestion would be to mention, under reception, that the game uses SecuROM (which has a host of its own problems), and then to include specifics at the SecuROM article.  However, I'd wait until at least some good gaming source provides this news, instead of relying on forum posts. --Masem 14:21, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Aight, I'll hold out. Frankly, its just idiotic to hear of something like this occurring, especially when I'm planning to grab a copy myself this Friday. CABAL 14:27, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Something to do with Windows Vista, I believe. Parjay ► Talk  14:39, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd still use discretion here (lets see what 2K says), but Firing Squad's validated the 2-install issue.  Oh wait, I see that 2K's Elizabeth's commented on it, that if you don't uninstall correctly, you may have to call SecuROM to ask for a deactivation.  Unless there's more to this, I would say this is a non-issue (unlike the Widescreen thing at the moment) --Masem 15:44, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Question for the curious, then: How does it know if you've uninstalled? Does it notify the SecuROM server when that occurs? Anyone care to confirm? CABAL 16:05, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think the information is stored on Registry. If you happened to have one copy and then install one more copy upon that the registry would be same and it activates Securom anti-piracy. --SkyWalker 16:27, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  And how is that going to work across more than one system? CABAL 16:44, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Simple, You need a net to activate the copy right?. You enter the first cd-key and then the cd-key of the different system. The CD-Key will be registered on the server. Once the servers receive third request for the third copy it denies the request. The cd-key is encrypted when sent to the servers. Overall this sort of protection can be cracked by people who have knowledge of this. It will take weeks,month or years depending on the knowledge they have. --SkyWalker 16:55, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  And how does the server know its the third system? Say I have it installed on two machines, and the first one dies from a hard-drive failure. That leaves me with one working installation. However, I can't install a replacement third copy on another machine because their server would assume the dead copy is still working. CABAL 17:08, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

text:  Iam not sure about how this work. I think the hardware info be sent to the server?. It takes hardly 1 or 2 kb to sent to server about hardware config. Dont buy this game now. If there is enough of outcry about this. 2K game may remove this sort of CP from bioshock. It will be worth the wait. Personally i wont be buying this game until next year. --SkyWalker 17:32, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Actually, there is a pretty easy fix. Ghost your second machine, uninstall the game, restore the ghost image. You have a working bioshock install on your second machine and you are no longer using up one of your activations. --chutzpah 04:46, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

text: Starforce got into this trouble that is why most companies stopped using it because of customers outcry. If 2k games get enough of outcry they will remove it after sometime. The main reason of this copy protection is because of piracy. Many of them would pirate it. --SkyWalker 02:05, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

text: SecuROM is not included in the Steam demo. I searched through the registry (in a fresh install of Windows XP) and didn't find that entry (…\Software\SecuROM\!CAUTION! NEVER DELETE OR CHANGE ANY KEY*). Corky842 00:56, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  -SERIOUS- SecuROM problem 

message: To whom added the PS3 rumors.. I'd argue that none of these are actually sufficiently strong confirmation to include.  They're speculation on their own by lack of certain statements from 2K, which is just as bad if we were speculating.  Now, mind you, if there is a PS3 announcement, these become valid, so I've commented them out until such a point may happen. --Masem 05:24, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This just in:  Parjay ► Talk  20:12, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ps3 rumors... commented out until better confirmation 

message: How about a section about the early Nazi-zombie-mutants and really-bio games?  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by HanzoHattori (talk • contribs). 
:If you would kindly post a link or two with info on the old versions, maybe we could put something up.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.193.160.181 (talk) 23:06, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Previous versions 

message: "The architecture and society of Rapture was strongly inspired by the works of Ayn Rand, especially Atlas Shrugged"
This reveals the relationship between the "good" Atlas and "bad" Andrew Ryan when that is meant to be revealed after playing the game for a while. It was a spoiler to me when I read it but I've only played the demo so far so mabye I'm wrong (comes out tomorrow in Australia). ShadowUnseen 06:58, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Read the following http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:SPOILER 198.6.46.11 16:33, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

text: That is hardly a spoiler - it doesn't say how the game is inspired, or give away any plot details at all.  It's the type of teaser sentence that appears in a newspaper review. — Carl (CBM · talk) 17:12, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intro spoiler 

message: Having just received the CE/LTD with a broken figurine, I think it's worth noting in the CE/LTD section the reports of the broken Big Daddy figurines that people have been receiving.  [link] 2K will be sending a printed version of the free artbook to customers with a broken figurine. Parjay ► Talk  15:44, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Broken Figurine in CE/LTD Problems 

message: Removed from article:-
I think this needs to be rewritten to make it more encyclopaedic and neutral in tone before it should be included in the article. The most glaring issues I can see are...
*"The problem however" (see WP:WTA)
*"three times as powerful as ... equivelent (sic)" inherent contradiction - or poor wording - and this is original research
*"suddenly unable to play" who could play this game, say, in July 2007?
*"large public outcry" WP:PEACOCK and WP:V both apply
*"going to convince them" WP:CRYSTAL 
I would say there is perhaps a short sentence that can be salvaged from this paragraph, assuming the petition has  sufficient notability, but what do other editors think?
Sheffield Steeltalkersstalkers 16:14, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, it appears other articles that highlight such technical issues are minor within their articles. Considering such issues are fixed it would be subject to change and highlighting the history of such an error is overlly long and drags out the page to long. While it should be included, a major cropping should be in order. Stabby Joe 23:57, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Can this even be considered a "technical problem"?  The minimum requirements do not state shader 2.0, hence it is unsupported rather than technical problem.  Should we also start listing all the other old hardware that doesn't work with this game?  Of course not. Parjay ► Talk  01:13, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

text: The Ars Tech. article is fairly balanced and good.  I have included this as a topic as well as reducing the weight of the rest of the technical issues section (keeping the references however) so that it's just one single section, given that the furor over these topics has really died down. --Masem 05:38, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shader 2.0 problems 

message: Throughout the game I've found quite a few references to Fallout (I.E. Bathroom symbols, mentioning of 'Eden'.). I guess at this point its just speculation, but is this set within the Fallout world? It takes place before Fallout does. Was Rapture the first attempt at a Garden of Eden Creation Kit? Could the Splicers be considered the first of the mutants from Fallout 1? Is Andrew Ryan the beginning to it all maybe? Ryan starting Rapture seems a bit like the Unity from Fallout 1.
Maybe I'm reaching a bit but it seems to me as if this falls before the first Fallout game. I guess if enough people agree, it should be added to the article. Maybe as nothing more then speculation of its connection to the Fallout world.--Rainalor 01:11, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No.  Also, why would this game have anything to do with Fallout in the first place? And no. Parjay ► Talk  01:41, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Let's not get into adding "this game is like that game" thoughts to the article - not without reliable sources at designer, programmer or producer level. Humans are very good at finding similarities. Unfortunately such observations tend to fall under the heading of  original research rather than  notable facts. Sheffield Steeltalkersstalkers 02:09, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yup, agreed; the only game that absolutely needs to be talked about besides BioShock is System Shock 2, given the number of times Levine has mentioned this as a basis for this game. Unless you get an article where a developer says "Oh yea, we threw in a Fallout references, just cause", its OR. --Masem 03:42, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No, it has NOTHING to do with fallout. Fallout was set as if there were nuclear war in the 50's fused with some modern technologies, Bioshock is ALSO set in the 50's, thus similar styling. Just cos the buildings are art deco doesn't mean they stole them from sim city. Comradeash 06:26, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

text: That's irrelevant. The Ink Spots were a popular group in the 40s. dethtoll 08:06, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

text: You guys aren't seeing the actual picture. This game is set around the same time of the 20th century that Fallout itself was inspired by.  This game is not inspired by Fallout. Both games simply reference that period of time. Parjay ► Talk  03:12, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fallout references. 

message: I have archived 50 posts of this page. -- Anonymous DissidentTalk 12:47, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archived 

message: While playing the game I noticed the plot takes a somewhat striking resemblance to Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness. While the developers never mentioned it, I think it warrants further inspection. Going on a quest to find Ryan (Kurtz)? Upon arrival in Ryan's section of the building there are bodies on the walls (the heads on pikes in HoD)? It just makes me too curious to leave it alone. (Nbmatt 19:12, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you can find information on 2K Bo/Au using that as a source of inspiration, it certainly can be added.  As it is, that is currently WP:OR and can't be used as such. --Masem 19:31, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Besides, leaving impaled corpses outside the (figurative) gates is a time-honored means of scaring your enemies, both in history and fiction. CABAL 20:11, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I started a thread at the 2k Forums to see if I can get some closure on the matter. Only time will tell from now, I guess. Thread URL. (Nbmatt 19:39, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Heart of Darkness Influence? 

message: Been trying to wrap my brain around what Levine's intent is with having Ryan go so quietly once Jack reaches him. Going to restore an old save game and play the scene back again, but it appears he is either:
*Welcoming death, having tried to destroy Rapture and failed, and now he's mocking Jack (and Fontaine) by repeatedly telling him he's a slave to his programming (and the plasmids), and that he's never been a true man (in the Objectivist sense that he is not actively choosing a path that is in his best self-interest, but rather doing it for someone else), or
*He's trying to use some trigger phrase "A man chooses, a slave obeys" to get Jack to stop, which also fails.
Has anyone tried to get a screen cap of the intro, when Jack looks at the gift in his hand? I really want there to be a clue or message there that says, "Would you kindly hijack this plane and ditch it at these coordinates"?
Also, the achievement icon for killing Ryan being a dripping golf club is full of lulz. Big Head Zach 15:33, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you want a screenshot of that bit, I can oblige. The writing is in the top-left of the package. CABAL 16:12, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

text: To paraphrase a very good website about this, the point of that moment is a mockery of choice in games. The whole game you think you are choosing your path, when you're under the control of Fontaine, and when you finally want to choose something contrary to his will, the game takes over and thwacks Ryan in the head. In saying "A man chooses, a slave obeys", Ryan is dying with dignity- he's choosing death. The player is just an obedient slave, and Ryan will always be above him for it. 76.181.171.86 22:12, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ryan's death scene and the nature of Jack's purpose 

message: The name of the book refers to the idea that the people responsible for making the world work - the scientists, businessmen, and the movers and shakers - what if they decided not to do their jobs anymore? What if Atlas, the man who mythologically held up the world, shrugged his shoulders? He isn't doing it for his own benefit, which is a key "gripe" that Rand illustrates, and one that Ryan discusses in his opening monologue.
Fontaine using the name "Atlas" seems to indicate that he feels he is truly the one running Rapture, as he is a smuggler and all-around fixer. It follows that a mobster/gangster would be the one to undermine Ryan's authority as his philosophy is generally flawed, because it requires everyone else to play by the same rules; we clearly see in the likes of Sander Cohen and Dr. Steinman that once the humanity is stripped from oneself due to the plasmids, the whole "right to pursue what is in my best interest without denying others that same right" goes out the window, and everything starts to collapse.
So, was Fontaine's smuggling operation truly what "held up the world" of Rapture? Does he see Ryan as an idealist that trusted way too much in those he invited to live there? Keep in mind that Fontaine is, while opportunistic, completely free of plasmid taint until the final scene, so his head is clear. Big Head Zach 15:30, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Atlas Shrugged 

message: I posted a small entry about the Ken Levine post that was deleted from the Bioshock forums, i don't know if it's entirely appropiate, but i don't know the entire story about the thread, perhaps someone could expand? Tlarsen 16:24, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't see how this is important, yet.  If this turns out to actually have significant effect, then we can figure out how to add it, but right now, including it (particularly calling it "stupidity and ignorance", is slanderous and approaches violating the biography of living persons standards.  --Masem 16:37, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well the title is one he wrote himself, so i didn't consider it slanderous, i've removed my re-added section as well, but if needed be we could change the title, although we might wait until we also have the posts itself, i think he posted about 15 posts in the topic before it was deleted Tlarsen 16:41, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, may not be slander, but still, I'm not seeing how this directly relates to BioShock, or if it will in the long term.  Keep the link handy, should this become of newsworthiness, we can add it back (and likely will need a separate subpage if it is a big issue).  --Masem 16:46, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: a  note  about  ken  levine's  stupidity  and  ignorance

message: Exactly how do you get the second bad ending. is it random? and (it is possible) what if you NEVER killed a Big Daddy, and the only the LS you saved is the one that you are forced to ineract with. It is possible with the Vita-Cahmbers and such.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.126.25.23 (talk) 06:34, August 27, 2007 (UTC) 
:The second "bad" ending is likely to be a developer leftover, in the beginning you killed little sisters, this was later changed to harvesting little sisters, the filenames should be pretty self-explanatory, there's "SavedGatherers.bik" "HarvestedGatherers.bik" and "KilledGatherers.bik", the last obviously being a reference back to when the game had you kill little sisters instead. Tlarsen 16:14, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Endings

message: I took out a piece in the Influences section about Andrew Ryan being an anagram for "new Ayn Rand," because it's not-- the closest you can get is "rew Ayn Rand". 67.86.1.247 00:51, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks like that post was in violation of our guideline on  bad original research. Sheffield Steeltalkersstalkers 19:08, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "Anagram" reference

message: Irrational's official website does NOT say anything about it being renamed. There is NO reference at all to 2K Boston/2K Australia as mentioned. They might have been acquired by Take-Two, but that's a different story altogether. speaks rohith 18:51, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry boy-o it's the same story altogether. The company is in transition. Its name is legally 2KBoston/2KAustralia. Would you Kindly see the credits on the BioShock packaging and at the begining of the game. BURNyA 19:08, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

text: I just wanted to say "Would You Kindly" BURNyA 19:11, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  It's still '''Irrational''' 

message: Someone created a page for Andrew Ryan (BioShock).  Given recent changes to notability particularly in fictional works, there is no need for this page to exist (all information about Ryan is primarily in universe), the connection to Ayn Rand is indicative of the whole game itself.) --Masem 01:20, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Putting up [[Andrew Ryan (BioShock)]] for Speedy Deletion 

message: There is no word in the article that several recent stabbing deaths in Britain have been linked to Bioshock addicted perpetrators! 82.131.210.162 07:36, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It might be self-censorship on the part of some editors; wikipedia is officially  not censored. More likely, though, it's just that no editor has added anything to the article. Please go ahead and find a  reliable source that  makes the link you described. All are welcome, and encouraged, to edit here - just try to keep within  wikipedia's principles and we will all be happy. Sheffield Steeltalkersstalkers 13:22, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Perhaps not, but we're fucked if someone goes on a rampage beating up people with a 20 pound wrench. Comradeash 06:33, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Censorship 

message: The Plot Holes section of this article mentions that it's up to the player wether or not he harvests a Little Sister despite being under Atlas/Fontaine's mind control at that point of the game, so he shouldn't really have that choice at all.
But perhaps not. Atlas doesn't say "would you kindly" when prompting the player to harvest the little girl, now does he?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.113.99.213 (talk) 18:32, August 29, 2007 (UTC) 
I believe that atlas wanted to "test" Jack in a way, trying to see if he was truly a passively aggressive person, or if he was only aggressive because he was forced to be.  I have no proof of this though...
The real plot hole is this: How did Fontaine's order get onto the present int he first place?  Jack was the only survivor on the plane, and it's not like Fontaine would have had access to the gift or anything...so wtf?
72.241.165.155 01:07, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  SPOILER: Plot hole - Little Sister choice 

message: I removed the  tag after the name "U-Invent" because it seemed pretty uncontroversial that such is the name of the machine. If anyone particularly feels that a reference needs to be cited for this, here's one: . Sheffield Steeltalkersstalkers 03:27, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It's probably a good idea to cite the game manual for some of the "new" terms that exist in the gameplay section - otherwise it could appear as OR. --Masem 03:35, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Cite for stuff that's in the game like that is not needed.  There was only a fact tag on it due to the game not being out when it was added, thus it couldn't be confirmed if it really was called this by playing the game at that time. Parjay ► Talk  00:21, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Technically, it's not; the fact a "u-invent" is in the game is an incontrovertible fact.  However, if we were to get this article as a Good Article or better, it helps to have a game manual citation for such items.  It's easy to get this , not a big issue to worry about.  --Masem 11:09, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thats about as sensible has having to find a report to cite the fact that the sky is blue or my car is white.Comradeash 06:22, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  cite for "u-invent" 

message: Can anyone else to collaborate (beyond just their personal experience with the game) on the existence of the third ending?  If it does exist, there's an easier way to write it into the plot, but I want to make sure that it does before doing so (and we should be pretty confident about the conditions to achieve it too.) --Masem 14:31, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Verification of the third ending 

message: the article is overly long and the entire plot should not be there just a brief overview.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.26.100.14 (talk) 02:47, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Compared to other FA for WP:CVG, this story/plot section is quite appropriate in length, particularly compared to what it was a few days after release and while it might not yet be fully sourced, I don't believe what's in there now is going to be a problem.  The section is covering the settings, the main characters, the main enemies, and the main themes in the story, all which is necessary to describe its notability later in the reception section.  Given that how its written prevents the need for "List of characters" or "list of enemies" pages, this size is appropriate. --Masem 03:13, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

text: However, aspects of the plot have become notable already (the choice of dealing with the Little Sisters, etc.), and it is impossible to describe their notability without briefly describing the setting and plot. (and yes, this is brief plot summary).  It falls well within the lines for new fictional notability requirements that are being developed.  --Masem 15:14, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  length 

message: Someone added this silly section:
- System Shock (Audio emphasis)
- DOOM (Horrific content)
- Mafia (Date/Time Settings)
- Half-Life (Weapons and overall "gate" design)
- Oblivion (Magic)
- DeusEx (Powers and Character Development)
This is just plain silly. The game is made as a "spiritual successor" to System Shock 2, so the first part is redundant. "Horrific content" is by no means exclusive to DOOM. The date/time of the game has nothing to do with Mafia - sounds like the author was really stretching it. I see no way in which the weapons are related to Half-Life - they are the standard fare of 1st person shooters since whenever. "Gate Design" isn't explained so is worthless. Magic isn't exclusive to Oblivion and anyway has much more to do with the Psy-Powers of System Shock 2. Deus Ex isn't the source of the game's "powers and character development", System Shock 2 - a game that influenced Deus Ex as well.
Since the section is unrefrenced and useless I advocate removing it.
EDIT: Someone was W:BOLD and did it, nevermind.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Viciouspiggy (talk • contribs) 
:For what it's worth, I concur with both editors. original research is not acceptable in Wikipedia. The only debate is whether it's better to tag it (either as  or ) or delete it immediately. Sheffield Steeltalkersstalkers 15:05, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Influences" 

message: what is the song they're playing for the trailer?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.247.128.250 (talk) 20:00, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Trailer

message: Do we really need a list of licensed tracks in the soundtrack section? Parjay ► Talk  01:58, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes and a separate article would be much better. --SkyWalker 08:07, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone needs to correct the soundstrack listing anyway. "Johnnie Ray" is actually Johnny Ray, no "ie", and the version of It Had To Be You in the game was not Danny Thomas's 1951 version as it has no vocals--just the instrumental.71.189.237.68  —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 20:17, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You see, that's the exact reason why I didn't want a list of licensed tracks; its obvious original research, non-verifiable. Parjay ► Talk  22:13, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The developers of Bioshock released a list with all the tracks used in the game.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.12.22.123 (talk) 19:36, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Soundtrack 

message: For a game that's exclusive to the 360, I would say you could put the information wherever seems appropriate, perhaps judging it on a case-by-case basis. For cross-platform games, it's a harder call to make, unless there are sub-sections documenting the separate consoles. As the BioShock article stands, I can't see a good place other than External Links. Other editors suggestions are welcome. Sheffield Steeltalkersstalkers 18:34, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: External links are fine.  As we're not a game guide, we don't need to go into any detail about them, but a pointer is always handy. --Masem 18:42, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

text: No, stuff like 360 achievements are considered game guide-like material (needed for those that play the game, not necessary for encyclopedic knowledge of the game), and are thus not appropriate for even 360-only games.  See WP:NOT#IINFO and WP:CVG/GL.  Adding a link to a page of 360 achievements in an EL is fine, and for a 360-only game, a single sentence could be used to summarize the number and general type of acheivements, but please don't list them out. --Masem 19:43, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Ok, sounds good. Thanks! --UaneReade 19:51, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I have removed 360 achievements because a wikia link already exist. Why is there any need the same link over and over again?. One link for one article.--SkyWalker 07:42, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  XBox 360 achievements: where to put them?  

message: I don't know how to describe it, anyway that session is hard to understand and is very confusing. such as [ADAM was used to develop a series of genetic modifications called plasmids, that could give humans special powers (which used a serum called EVE) and additional innate abilities.] VivaLaED 05:12, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "Setting" session is very confusing...

message: Hello!  I just got a copy of the latest issue of Electronic Gaming Monthly.  Anyway, there are two bits of potentially useful information:
:First, the magazine gave the game a 10/10 score.
:Second, the magazine states, "The Relevant Wikipedia Entry: Ayn Rand's Objectivism"
The source is "Bioshock: It's better down where it's wetter," Electronic Gaming Monthly 220 (October, 2007): 96.  Best, --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 23:05, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Possible information to mention in article from ''Electronic Gaming Monthly'' article

message: I don't own the game, but I have heard that the controls are not customizable, and that many people cannot really play the game because of this. I think this would be a worthwhile detail to add to the article.--SkiDragon 11:38, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The PC controls are customizable. I don't know about the 360 version but it's not really standard to have customizable controls on console games, is it? Capuchin 10:17, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: For console FPS games it has become standard to offer a few basic joystick layouts, like the "legacy" and "southpaw" modes found in games like Halo.--SkiDragon 00:47, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, I havent owned a console since the N64 :) Capuchin 08:51, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Controls

message: I didn't know that about Atlas, argh. Thanks for spoiling the fucking game for me whoever wrote that.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.134.162.219 (talk) 21:56, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know whatever you're eluding to either, but i'm not going to read the PLOT section before i've played the game, as it obviously will contain spoilers. Capuchin 08:50, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Quite frankly, if you're reading the Wikipedia plot summary or associated talk page about a game you intend to play, and you see spoilers and the game is "ruined", it's your own stupid fault. Maelin (Talk | Contribs) 09:18, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The guideline that applies here is WP:SPOILER. Essentially it says that spoiler warnings should not be necessary on any section whose subject is "Plot", "Story" or anything similar. Maelin, it would be a nice gesture if you were to edit the above comment and use strike out on the word "stupid" - just in the interests of keeping a WP:CIVIL atmosphere here.Sheffield Steeltalkersstalkers 13:12, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Spoilers!

message: Would it be suitable to assume that Jack's tattoo of interlinked chains on his wrists are symbolic of him being Fontaine's prisoner/slave? FullyClothedMike  —Preceding unsigned comment added by FullyClothedMike (talk • contribs) 22:36, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No; that's an assumption (it could also refer to the "Great Chain" symbolized in the architecture about Rapture, but we have no clear answer so should not be included.) --Masem 23:55, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tattoo 

message: Why did someone delete my section in the Techincal Issues section? Theres is a huge problem with mouse acceleration in Bioshock, I think it should really be in this article, because it is so critical to the gameplay of the game. Many people have said that they would not have bought the game if they knew about the problem.85.156.228.242 18:18, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Two things: first, you need reliable sources that discuss this problem - forum posts and the like are not acceptable for this.  Secondly, relating to the first, is that this issue has not be covered or has made as significant noise as the widescreen FOV or the SeceROM problem, that is, it lacks notability for inclusion.   If you can find sources that say this is a significant problem, we can include it, but otherwise it pretty much seems like a bug/quality control problem that any video game can be faulted for and not specific to BioShock. --Masem 18:23, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, I deleted the section when you first added it. Firstly, I have Bioshock for PC, and I have experienced no such problem, but that would be OR. My reasons for deletion were the exact reasons that Masem has covered. Additionally, some of the information you included about ini fixes and things were not well written and not actually useful in an encyclopedia article such as this. Capuchin 07:12, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The mouse acceleration issue

message: I thought Rand wanted to create a pure capitalist economy, free of government interference, rather than an individualist utopia.
Not only free from Government Interference, but free from any ethical authoritative base. Rand was a devout propionate of Nietzschean "proto-fascism" It's quite disturbing to hear so many so called enlightened free thinkers wrap themselves in the Rand Oligarchy. Whats even more disturbing is the number of people that just don't get the fact that 2k is showing the flaws of such a society. In Rands world vision both Bethovan and Hawking would have been killed at birth. Martinj63 22:12, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: And(rew) Ryan, whose name is an anagram to Ayn Rand, is clearly a objectivist libertarian with some hues of Nietzschean existentialism, who becomes to act less and less coherent to his ideals in face of the harshening conditions of his city. I don't see the game as a particularly anti-libertarian pamphlet: you still can understand Rapture's crisis and decay as largely caused by a demagogue bandit and conspirator, Fontaine. -- 201.68.184.42 18:50, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

text: Simply saying he wanted to create a free market would not have been accurate. Ryan clearly wanted a place where people could fully prosper, free from censorship and other such external restrictions. He wanted Rapture to be a place where the only restriction and concern would be yourself. Besides, it seems rather obvious that Rapture is based off the concept of Galt's Gulch from Atlas Shrugged. Both were deliberately built in hard-to-reach places, both were built with secrecy in mind, and both were occupied with a selection of humanity's best. CABAL 22:16, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

text: More like a critique of the fact that everything humans try will eventually fail, simply because they were tried -by- humans. Remember what Tenenbaum said, "ADAM improved every aspect of Man - except his character." CABAL 16:38, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Individualism or Capitalism 

message: A reminder that when one chooses a plasmid, you have it 24/7. From Ctrl+Alt+Del online comic
Buying an apartment in Rapture.  From Red vs. Blue comic 
These are the ones I have seen so far.
Novamonk 02:24, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, Oi found  very amusing (and sad). I'm sure there's tons more as well. Catofax 06:12, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  BioShock in Online Humor 

message: Just a question. Is the havking minigame different between xbox360 and PC? I find the PC one incredibly easy. is this because it's designed to be used with xbox controls which i imagine is 40 times harder than with the mouse. Capuchin 08:29, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you happen to be decent at Pipedreams it's pretty simple on 360, the only exception being some of the safes. I'm sure that with a mouse It would be incredably easy. BURNyA 19:39, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hacking minigame. 

message: Apparently, Bioshock players have been able to get Bioshock working on Windows 2000 with ease.
They don't even touch any of the game files, so it should be legal.
All people do is find a couple of DLLs that are possibly the easiest to get, toss them in the same folder that Bioshock is in, and go.
So maybe the System Requirements should say that the game supports Windows XP Service Pack 2 or Windows Vista, and that a Windows 2k fix is available.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.24.149.3 (talk) 06:36, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Then the list wouldn't be official anymore. After all, the idea is that with just what is listed, the game should be able to run out of the box. Having the user manually grab DLLs off the Net isn't exactly "out of the box". CABAL 10:03, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Windows 2000 fix?