Talk:Ghost in the Shell: S.A.C. 2nd GIG

message: I'm a little troubled by the idea that the words "series" and "season" can be used interchangably.  They mean two different things. "Series" implies a self-contained arc of episodes with a distinct start and end, while "season" tends to imply that the episodes run on without a conclusion of story arcs, etc.  In this context I feel "series" is the appropiate word, given the distinct and self-contained plotlines and themes of both SAC and 2nd Gig; therefore I intend to have an anti-"season" crusade soon, unless someone can come up with a reason for me not to. YourMessageHere 21:19, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: For what it's worth, the official English website does use the word "season" ( http://ghostintheshell2ndgig.manga.com/ ) Vechs (talk) 05:31, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Series vs. Season

message: Note for later expansion: The "Particulist Eleven" refers to the 11 Naval officers involved in the real life May 15 incident, which lead to the military control of the Japanese government before World War II. crazyeddie 18:21, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Particulist Eleven

message: The page needs information on the last of the series episodes, and entries on such things as technology and references to the first season and its output on the series would be apreciated. Admittedly, the series has not yet released in the U.S. as of this writing, but someone out there has got to have info they can add. TomStar81 00:05, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Re: Expansion tag

message: Who LOVED GitS and GitS:SAC but hates Second Gig? Yes, they ditched the Major's bathing suit (Kudos!) but the series still seems unnecessarily dark and a litle too heavy on exposition. Palm_Dogg 04:14, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Am I the only one who's living in France right now, hearing reports come in about riots and tear gas in the square where I went to buy books the day before — and when Dominique de Villepin says "some of the violence had been organized through Internet blogs", am I the only one who thinks "Stand Alone Complex?"  Anville 21:36, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

text: Agreed. You can tell the studio only created it because the first one did well. They seemed to only "cut and paste" from other areas, then made it up to look enticing and fresh. They should have taken their own advice and done another remake, putting the cast in another storyline, one that assumed SAC never happened. You can still character develop without weighing them down that way. Eluchil 00:43, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Am I the only one... 

message: Is there a source for the assertion in "Trivia" that SAC 2nd GIG is an alternate storyline from GITS (the 1st movie)? Or is this what I've surmised -- that the TV series are re-telling of events in the GITA Manga?
IMO the Manga and TV series certainly may be considered "alternate retellings" or "alternate timelines" because of overlapping events. This is also the case with other Anime / Manga series such as Full Metal Alchemist where the Manga expands upon the plot presented in the Anime (ED: to be precise, that the Anime is a condensation of the material in the Manga). However this series and the films follow each other cleanly, as do SAC and SAC 2nd GIG.
As soon as episode 1 of this series there are references to Project 2501 / The Puppet Master in Major Kusanagi's ability to control one of the terrorists: she refers to her victim as a "puppet"; Bato jokes to the team to have their "back-hack blockers up" before the briefing (certainly advisable if Motoko is now the home for the intermingled personalities / memories of both her original self, the puppet master, and the laughing man!).
But the end of 2nd GIG puts us right at the begining of the first GitS film. Even if you disagree I'm going to remove that tag as it cannot be backed up.
:Actually, the background sounds very similar to the history postulated in the Appleseed Databook by Shirow, including the two world wars before 2029 (WWIII is a nuclear war between U.S. and Soviets; WWIV is a war between the European Commonwealth and U.S. and the Asian Alliance) and the "Japanese Miracle". No word on whether the European forces where lead by the false Christ and the true Christ appearing in China right before a giant meteor strikes. --YoungFreud 19:41, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, I just realized the date of the 2nd film is 2032 (from the publisher's descirption of Innocence the novel). This corrobberates the trivia fact! The first GitS film takes place in 2029, and the SAC 1 episodes begin April 2030. --KarlThePagan
Actually, the end of SAC 2nd GIG leads to chapter 2 of the manga. From what I can recall, the date was not mentioned in the manga. Personally, I see both movies as seperate from both the manga and SAC.
--Sinbios
I think the process of adapting GiTS from comics and movie to TV series is similar to that of X-men movies from comic books. The use of alternate line time offers writing staff greater artistic freedom in developing the TV series. On the other hand, if the story deviates too much from the original, it will loose the flavour of the original. One way to get around this problem is to incorporate and re-interpretate key events, characters (e.g. Decatoncale, Major jumping off the building, Azuma etc.) from the original into a new alternative timeline/narrative structure. --GoogleMonkey 00:52, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alternate Timeline Manga/Film confusion? (SPOILERS - all around - SAC, SAC2, GITS movies and manga) 

message: Laughing Man Fansubs just finished out the series.  Torrent links to all 26 episodes are located at the bottom of that page.  Enjoy.  --Cyde 06:37, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Huh?  You don't have to hunt for anything.  Whenever I need to install AC3 (which is fairly often, because I reinstall Windows regularly and some of my friends aren't tech-savvy), I just Google for "AC3 Filter", download it (it's not terribly big) and install it ... takes five minutes, maximum, and then everything just works.  You're right about Laughing Man Fansubs -- he does a great job.  --Cyde Weys [u]  [t]  [c] 00:58, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

text: That address hasn't worked (for me) for several weeks.  I believe some of my friends were able to use BitTorrent to get all the episodes.  (I downloaded episode 26 directly from one of their computers, so I don't know how they got it.)  Anville 08:20, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

text: i've found out a way to get but its only through p2p. On searching type in LMF or lmf and select video all the fansubs will apear! Empty2005 07:28, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Episode 26 fansub is out 

message: Someone is editing the character names to different transliterations, so I'm saying we just stick with the "official" transliterations and not muddy up the issue by offering multiple versions of the transliteration.  The names are Japanese, and any English spelling is just going to be an approximation, so might as well just stick with the best approximation and not muddy the issue by listing multiple approximations.  --Cyde Weys talkcontribs 22:47, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Character name transliterations 

message: Is it a coincidence that the Cabinet Intelligence Agency, if abbreviated, comes out to CIA, or was that meant as a slam againt the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency? TomStar81 00:55, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Coincidence?

message: Someone put on the  template, which looks like this:
[the template has been deleted]
I took it off because the series has already premiered and finished its run in Japan.  The only thing that's premiering in America is the English dub, which is very unlikely to change any of the details in the article.  So I don't think the tag is necessary.  --Cyde Weys talkcontribs 00:59, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, that was me. I was testing of theory of mine and it worked, but before I could remove the templete from the front page I called for dinner. Sorry about that :/ TomStar81 02:28, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, you spelled "premiere" incorrectly ... you spelled it "premire".  I took the liberty of correcting it for you on all occurrences of the mispelling.  --Cyde Weys talkcontribs 02:32, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. I can’t spell worth a darn. In all honesty this should have been done in my sandbox, but I couldn’t test the  templete there. TomStar81 03:34, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Took out tv-premiere template 

message: Some anonymous user inserted into the Trivia section that episode 2 takes place on Christmas Eve, 2031.  I removed it for now until someone can provide some evidence in favor of this.  I just skimmed over the episode and didn't see any obvious Christmas references, though I must admit it's been months since I last saw the episode in its entirety.  --Cyde Weys talkcontribs 17:11, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ep. 2 takes place on Christmas, 2031? 

message: I think the episode list has now gotten significantly long it's distracting from the main article and should be moved into its own page.  Any objections?  --Cyde Weys talkcontribs 19:24, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Time to branch the episode list 

message: What does Kuze mean when he says he'll be the first one to go? does he mean he'll be the first one to ascend to the higher structure he's talking about? but isn't it implied heavily that ghosts can't exist in cyberspace? but then again, we have the exception of tachikomas... 2nd gig really leaves a lot of questions unanswered while still having a definate conclusion...
:Quite the opposite, I don't think there was any real criticism that a ghost could NOT exist in cyberspace. It just wasn't known if it would work, and there was some doubt on the part of the characters, but nothing was presented that implied it could not be done. At least nothing that I remember. --Smidge204 16:53, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: There is a ton of symbolism in the series, not just the second season. Regarding Kuze, the same thing with the Tachikoma. (Just before their AIs are destroyed, there is a scene showing one labeling a data item "Tachikoma's All Memory" and placing it into the space they created for holding the refugees' ghosts.) --Smidge204 16:53, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

text: The only connection is that the creators of the series are giving some recognition to the original Manga. Characters, world designs and storylines are all heavily borrowed from the manga, but this does not mean thay are in any way related. --Smidge204 16:53, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

text: Well they did spend an entire episode to establish that Motoko and Kuze had something of a history, and suggest that they have spent most of their live looking for "something" and feelign lonely/empty without it. I don't know if I would go as far to say it was a relationship, but the attachment between the characters was a long time in the making, chronologically speaking. --Smidge204 16:53, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some questions and comments/finds 

message: I can't remember what episode something was said that I wanted to contemplate some more.  Could someone refresh my memory?  It was something about how they said the "ghost" might exist inside the person, the group and then something else, but I can't remember what it was!  Thanks if you can remember/bring this up again.  I know there was a part where tachikomas refered to the satalite as their "other" place but they said human's had another equivalent which I think they explained later on. -Moocats 13:53, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where do you exist? 

message: I read in the article and heard the talk from the minor political characters in the show about the refugees in the city. Where exactly are they in the spectrum of the show, are they just a group with no leader, or are they a metaphor for something else. Ive only seen up to the most recent episode on adult swim. Any information about them and how they relate to the Individual Eleven and clarification would be appreciated.
The refugees' demands for sovereignty are basically used by Gouda and Kuze to achieve their own objectives. They are the catalyst behind the show's main plotline.  Feldmarschall 06:52, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Refugees? 

message: Anyone think bringing info of the volume and box sets into the article aswell for 1st Gig is a good idea? Thanks Empty2005 06:04, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  DVD info? 

message: As I did with the page on the first season, I've changed the genre from "Cyberpunk" to "Postcyberpunk" as it seems more appropriate. Postcyberpunk even references Ghost in the Shell as an example.  Norfenstein 21:43, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Genre 

message: I saw GITS 1st GIG as a dub but I aw the second one as sub. There's so much going on, it's tough to keep up with things. I've seen it mentioned before that the Japanese approach to storytelling includes a disregard for the importance of every viewer "getting it." They're willing to leave a lot of unanswered questions, unexplained situations, and offloading a lot of work onto the viewer. Personally, I think that sometimes this is a genuine sign of depth but other times it's just a cop-out. Anyway, the point of what I'm getting at here, it'd really be nice to get an explanation of exactly what was supposed to have happened here and some possible theories on the strange stuff depicted. 
A couple quesitons: 
1. Why was Ghouda so forthcoming to Motoko when she dove into his brain? Would unveiling his plan make it's accomplishment easier? 
2. Exactly how is the Particularist virus supposed to work? Is it a simple brain hijack? Is it being more subtle, using psychological principles to infuse the cyberbrain with an obsessive-compulsive disorder, sort of the way drugs can make people suicidal? How does it reproram people? 
3. The end of the show was identical to the setup of the original manga. Was this homage or trying to set everything up as a prequel? 
4. I've yet to find a decent explanation of how the "ghost" works in GITS. As I've been able to infer, a "ghost" is analagous to a soul, what makes a human being unique from a robot or AI. There is talk of ghost-lines and ghost-hacking and that would involve reaching beyond the cyberbrain interface to mess around with the real person. So, is a cyberbrain a real living human brain encased in a life support mechanism for mounting in a cyberbody? Is it an artificial construct into which a consciousness has been transferred? Are consciousnesses supposed to be transferrable? If human ghosts can be transferred from one device to another, is it possible to only copy them instead? There was mention of ghost-dubbers but no real story on how they worked or what the nature of the dubbed personalities would be like. If the dubbings were inferior to the original, that implies that a consiousness really is transferred and the copying is not like dubbing hard drives but more like pumping fluids from one tank to another. 
5. Ghosts are supposed to be capable of existing free-floating within the net? Have they provided any explanation for this?
:This isn't really the best place to be asking questions about the plot of GITS.  The discussion page is mainly for discussing changes that can be made to the article.  You might want try any variety of GITS fansites, or ask your question on rec.arts.anime.misc (a Usenet newsgroup).  -- 23:20, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Genre 

message: The current article says:
:Due to a battered economy and weak political position, the American Empire entered a security pact with Japan. The pact prohibits both Japan from deploying its army overseas (Constitution Article 9) and possessing nuclear weapons.
I know that a recent episode has said something about the American Empire allying itself with Japan, but I'm not sure about those prohibitions of the Japanese military being linked to the future American Empire. Too bad I don't have the episode on tape.
Present-day Japan has an article 9 in its constitution that prohibits it from taking offensive military actions against another country. Even the nation's recent participation in UN peacekeeping missions was very controversial. That anti-belligerence clause has existed since just after World War II. That's why Japan's military is called the Japan Self-Defense Forces or JSDF, both in GITS:SAC and in real life.
Could someone please check this? Thanks. --Tachikoma 20:54, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article 9 in 2nd GIG History section 

message: Did you know that the opening theme was sung in 3 differnt languages: English, Japanese and Russian. I don't why though...
Because the singer, Origa, is a native Russian, and the anime is Japanese. There's English because it's exotic. --Sinbios
Not a fact. There is no Japanese, although it's easy to mistake some of the Russian words for Japanese given the context. The song is entirely in Russian and accented English. 24.6.99.30 17:11, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Little Fact 

message: It's not supposed to origin from the English word "gig", a music concert, is it? That would be a scary abuse of the English language. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.122.61.173 (talk • contribs).
:That's what I always assumed it referred to. A more stylish way of saying 2nd season, if you will. --BloodDoll 19:40, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Aye. Gig, as a slang word, while originally just meaning something like music concert, has expanded in some cases to mean "job". -- Ned Scott 20:16, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I always thought it was "gig" as in short for gigabyte, to fit the technology theme of the series. - kollision 03:38, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  a 3-digit selection in a numbers game + a military demerit + a job usually for a specified time especially an entertainer's engagement
===Proposed move===
Since it doesn't appear that "GIG" stands for anything, I propose that the article be moved to Ghost in the Shell: S.A.C. 2nd Gig (decapped).--SeizureDog (talk) 07:59, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  What does "GIG" stand for? 

message: Since it doesn't appear that "GIG" stands for anything, I propose that the article be moved to Ghost in the Shell: S.A.C. 2nd Gig (decapped).--SeizureDog (talk) 07:59, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Proposed move

message: Please look at history of 22 May 2007  .
User:Ganryuu was reversing and deleting the trivia  focused on Episode 18 after he mistakely reverts a 2nd reference ( Wings of Desire) to Wenders film :
Much of this episode pays homage to the Wim Wenders film Wings of Desire ( originally Der Himmel über Berlin ).
The film was mentionned as an homage by the screenplayer and was added in this page months ( even years ) ago because in is a FACT clearly for anyone watching both the episode and the movie...
Atter four deletions from Ganryuu ( main part of the trivia and than less but again focused on EP 18 and Wings of Desire addition )
I revert to the original state and now I give up ( hard day's night ).
I won't start a war but Ganryuu acts like it is a personal revenge claiming "WP:TRIVIA and Wikipedia:No original research. Wikipedia is not a soapbox or platform for original thought, research and claims."
I'm so sorry if he misunderstood my ironical comments ;-) ( see history   
I really don't care about the "incident" but please : Let's talk now before deleting anything or everything Peace --Neuromancien 01:05, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You have just made four reverts within the last hour; this is a violation of Wikipedia:Three-revert rule, and you can be blocked for over 24-hours because of this. Please see Wikipedia:No original research and WP:TRIVIA; excess trivia and unsourced original research cannot be included into articles; these are Wikipedia policies. Simply watching a film and noticing its similarities is considered original research and therefore cannot simply be included in articles. You haven't yet cited a single verifiable source nor reference for any of the statements you have been adding to the article; this goes against the verifiability policies. Even after being warned about how your edit did not conform to Wikipedia's policy on original research and directed to a page explaining the revert policy, you persisted in your reverts, via which you completely reverted the prior edits, even the content which you did not disagree with and removing the excess trivia template, without giving a single explanation for these particular reverts. ···巌流? · Talk to Ganryuu 01:20, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Avoid bias see history of the article.Wikipedia works by building consensus. See Wikipedia:Consensus WP:CON for rules and at last :Good night  ;-) --Neuromancien 01:29, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Thanks I am reading it .In fact it was a single addition of the link Wings of Desire to Wim Wenders film reference ( originally Der Himmel über Berlin ).I sign and revert the RV made by User:Ganryuu with the comment "verify before reverting" ( i think he reverts accidentaly my anon contribution ) and it starts a stupid revert war ... What User:Ganryuu did after was only disruptive deletion focusing on this first step ... Sorry it is late night here i will not lose my time anymore Bye --Neuromancien 01:57, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: What are you talking about? I've already explained why much of the content in the trivia section cannot be included in the article, due to it being original research and moreover, completely unverified and containing speculative content, to top it all off. You haven't even responded to any of these explanations, nor have you given a source or even a single explanation for your reverts. Please refrain from incivil comments and false allegations; see Wikipedia:Assume good faith. ···巌流? · Talk to Ganryuu 01:59, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Trivia was added because the simple list of episodes was a copyvio ! The official german name of the episode 18 DVD is named from the film too  Episode 18 Himmel über Berlin I'm Zen and please keep cool because you misunderstood my first ironical RV at least and you argue with rules without respect for their spirit ! You just revert the last anon contribution first ( addition of Wings of desire as alternate reference in the trivia of EP 18 : it was mine anyway and so also for the original one Der Himmel über Berlin ) and then after my signed RV you start cleaning the whole section and especialy the mentionned Episode 18 with little variations ! Good Night it is enough for now Keep the good work ;-) --Neuromancien 02:09, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, I have absolutely no idea on what your talking about. Please refrain from false allegations and incivil comments; please remember to always assume good faith. Simply the fact that a German distributor decided to title the episode under a particular title does not prove any connection to the actual "homage" and other speculative claims claimed within the section; again, simply watching a film, noticing its similarities and basing the flux of the content on this assumption is original research, and as such shouldn't be included. Original research must be never included in articles, since Wikipedia is not a soapbox, after all. ···巌流? · Talk to Ganryuu 02:21, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:   Yep right !  Perhaps but this is a consensus view of thousand of viewers.Dig the web with a good search engine and also see the Page history it was discuss long ago.I will be happy to talk further but it is time to sleep for me ( and sorry for losing so many energy and time together in such (bad) circumstances ) My dear Friend Peace i'm away for few days anyway see you soon in the Cyberspace --Neuromancien 02:30, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

text: As I've said earlier, the fact that it is original research, as you admit yourself, and moreover, unsourced, this cannot be added into the article due to the several of the official policies mentioned at Wikipedia:No original research and Wikipedia:Verifiability. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a soapbox for original research or thoughts. ···巌流? · Talk to Ganryuu 03:45, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  The information was here before as i say before i just add an 2nd internal link --Neuromancien 04:31, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It is original research and as mentioned in the above policies, must therefore be removed, no matter how long it has been prevalent in the article; this would be perhaps an assessment of the extent of the cleanup this article currently requires and why such original research and speculation be removed from articles, as this is an encyclopedia. ···巌流? · Talk to Ganryuu 04:56, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Clean up no probs but keep consensus and good faith too Bye --Neuromancien 15:07, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I've now performed a cleanup of this article, per WP:TRIVIA and moved some of the content from the trivia section to the list of episodes, since they should be cited there, if it is notable, rather than here (see WP:TRIVIA). Interestingly, some of the trivia which I removed from this article yesterday, more specifically the reference to the German film Der Himmel über Berlin, was already present in the list of episodes, so it should have been removed anyway, per WP:TRIVIA. Please do not add trivia to articles, especially when it's already present in another, more suited section. See WP:TRIVIA. ···巌流? · Talk to Ganryuu 04:21, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Look at Talk:List of Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex episodes for episode 18 reference
Btw i was never involved in any Trivia edition before --Neuromancien 00:14, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Trivia 

message: Hi everyone
I read the article on Ghost in the Shell: stand Alone Complex, and was informed as to the nature of the story. I read this article and was not. What is the series about? Why is there no summary of the plot? Where is all the very basic information that ought to be included (who are the major characters? What do they do? And why?)? 
This article needs a major rewrite not merely to get it to 'good article' standard, but even to get it to 'useful standard' (or even 'comprehensible standard'). I'd be up for doing it myself, but I haven't seen the series. That is why I came to this article: I was looking for information. I leave without it. This really isn't good enough, not in an encyclopaedia. Anyone care to sort it out (or, alternatively, to have a go at defending the indefensible?)
BlackMarlin (talk) 20:41, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Serious Work Needed!

message: Should we merge the OVA? it seems to have no notability at all, and jsut like laughing man article, the only thing making this one different from the original is a different english voice cast.Bread Ninja (talk) 19:49, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Support. --Tarage (talk) 08:30, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  Another Support. 91.19.245.253 (talk) 15:15, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Done, please check redirect and other technicalities for me. WikiuserNI (talk) 18:56, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Merge the OVA

message: There's quite a bit of chatter about the net debating whether 2nd GIG is the second season of the "Stand Alone Complex" series, or a separate "sequel" series. The existence here of separate articles suggests that they are two series and not one, but there are many references in articles here to 2nd GIG as the second season of SAC. I think we need to reach a consensus regarding this: if 2nd GIG is the second season, the logical thing would be to merge the articles. If it's a sequel, then references to 2nd GIG should reflect that. My personal feeling is that they are one series, but there doesn't seem to be a standard for anime series and their "sequels". Darker than Black: Gemini of the Meteor has its own page, whereas Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- and Full Metal Panic! The Second Raid, though supported by limited content, are integrated. Thoughts? NJMcLellan (talk) 20:39, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Relationship between SAC and SAC: 2nd GIG - possible merger? 

message: I didn't want to make any large edits to this section without first flagging the issue up here: I suggest that the "Characters" section be pared down to just the principal cast (see Stand Alone Complex. Currently the significant recurring characters (Goda, Kuze, Proto, Kayabuki, etc) are represented in the List of Ghost in the Shell characters, and I think the other characters (Forensics Team, Female Androids) are providing more detail that is necessary for this article. I think the article would be served better by a slightly more detailed section for principal characters, supported by a link to the "list of GitS characters" article. NJMcLellan (talk) 16:01, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: sounds good. We can also do this for the first season too.Lucia Black (talk) 17:34, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Characters" section