Talk:Adolf Hitler/Archive 18

message: I think it should be put back and kept on forever. I see no point of taking it down. -- nyenyec ☎ 02:18, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There have been about two dozen instances of vandalism in the last two days. Why not semi-protect it? Shawnc 21:06, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protection again 

message: Isn't it a PoV? Hitler was never been convicted by any court. I've removed this category. see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion#Category:War_criminals. This catregory is going to be deleted. --Haham hanuka 13:32, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just a note that it's by no means decided that a category is going to be deleted, just because it's up for CfD.  I know, I listed the one you're talking about :Þ  But I agree, assuming Hitler was never convicted in absentia, then he doesn't belong on *that* list. Sherurcij (talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject) 13:39, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Dead men aren't charged with crimes. Str1977 13:50, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I think we can delete it now (and also it's sub category:Nazi war criminal). According to the vote 5 want to delete it and only 2 to keep. --Haham hanuka 13:45, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

text: I agree that the subcategory is a bit questionable. Whether he belongs into "War criminal" category is a matter of definition of that category: he certainly didn't commit any war crimes himself, but he did order some (e.g. through the Kommissarbefehl). Str1977 13:50, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: but it is a PoV. If I think that George Bush is a war criminal, Can I add it to this category? --Haham hanuka 13:55, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

text: No, Haham, it is only a POV insofar everything is a POV. If Bush was seriously (!!) charged or even convicted or had escaped charge or conviction via death or other means while evidence of his guilt were avaiable then you could include Bush. But that is not the case. Some want to include Bush for crimes committed by subalterns - I don't, unless they'd have evidence of his involvement (via orders etc.). Anyway, Bush is alive. Hitler is dead, was dead (and hence never charged) but the historiographical evidence "convicts" him. Though history is no law court, it presents evidence of what someone has done. That's not POV, as there's no serious debate over what he has done. Str1977 14:06, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Category:Nazi war criminal 

message: I was earlier objecting to the neutralising of the specificity of this Title for the Hitler bankers who kept his movement afloat, down to german businessmen. now I see that the vote for deletion was carried by Robert McClenon and one other. this seems exrtraordinary, especially as the info was sourced to the very page . What exactly does this contribute to Wkipedia, and why do we sleep walk along into this kind of revisionism in WP ?  I can only say that I am appalled at the approach being forced hrough here and in many related articles. This is sabotage of a high order and denies verifiability. 
EffK 10:06, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Verifiability]] and  [[Rhenish-Westphalian Industrial Magnates and the Nazis]]