Talk:Crohn's disease/Archive 1

message: Can someone remove some of the most gross/offensive images in the article?
I have CD, and like to read the contents on this article, but
the images stress me. Particulary the red colon image, and the cancer image. 
Thanks.
:I'm sorry, but generally we don't remove otherwise informative images because they cause offence.  However, if they do distress you, why don't you browse the article with image downloading disabled on your browser? 
:In my personal opinion, as a sufferer of Crohn's disease, I find the images in the article extremely informative and useful, and not gross at all.  For me at least, the human body is a fascinating mechanism, even the icky parts. --Robert Merkel 01:32, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gross Images 

message: Somebody needs to clarify this, from para. 1: 
:It typically affects the terminal ileum and well demarcated areas of large bowel with relatively normal bowel.
What is "large bowel with relatively normal bowel"?  I don't know the subject so I can't fix it, but this needs clarification. —Tkinias 18:56, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I've made a stab at clarifying that sentence... (I have it) CJewell (talk) 20:59, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clarification 

message: Both Pentasa and Asacol contain the same drug -- mesalamine -- which acts asprin-like and antibotic-like. The difference is the coating the drug comes in. These coatings act as a delay mechanism. Pentasa's coating dissolves in the last couple feet of the small intestine, while Asacol's coating dissolves and releases the mesalamine in the colon. [Full details: http://www.gihealth.com/html/education/drugs/pentasa.html ]
Although sulfasalazine may have an antibiotic effect, I don't think the same is true for mesalazine, which has only the aspirin like effect.M dorothy 03:41, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pentasa vs Asacol 

message: I've read many things on crohn's disease but have never read anything other than this article that mentions indirect brain damage.  What supporting evidence is there for this?  Is it simply a result of the low grade fever that often accompanies the disease?  Or is it just unsubstantiated guesswork?
:Low-grade fever does not cause brain damage. There is an increased incidence in white-matter lesions of unknown significance, and an increased incidence of multiple sclerosis. If in doubt, have a look on Google or Pubmed, and if this does not satisfy you, please feel free to rephrase or remove the contentious paragraph. JFW | T@lk 18:41, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Brain damage? 

message: I am annoyed by leaving the possessive standalone.  I think all instances of "Crohn's" standalone should be replaced with "Crohn's disease".
:This is an extremely common form and used by patients as well as doctors. It would be overkill to mention "disease" in every instance. JFW | T@lk 00:40, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Naming convention 

message: Dr. Trevor Marshall, a medical research scientist, developed a treatment for all TH1 type diseases, such as Crohn's disease, based on the concept that the root cause of these diseases is infection with intercellular bacteria (L-forms or cell wall deficient forms). Doctors around the World have been trying this treatment on their patients with TH1 type diseases with great success. He and others involved in this treatment are looking for funds to support clinical studies to bring this treatment into the mainstream.
For more information see www.marshallprotocol.com.
:Has this been published in a peer-reviewed publication? Are there prospective clinical trials? What does the treatment entail? JFW | T@lk 16:17, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Marshall Protocol for Crohn's Disease 

message: I think there ought to be a section on current research in this article.  I saw an article in Wired 2-3 months ago that described a number of them.  Some added detail about Remicade should also be added, its association with arthritis and its effects on the disease. Dguido
:Remicade is not research anymore. It is used when DMARDs fail or in fistulating disease. JFW | T@lk 08:57, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Obviously never heard about CARD15. JFW | T@lk 05:58, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks for pointing out the linkage disequilibrium research on NOD2 and Ashkenazi jews! Kd4ttc 18:07, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Current Research 

message: I've been doing some research, and it seems that there are some "undergrounders" that say the Crohn's comes from cow's milk...
http://www.nomilk.com/crohns.shtml
very riteting article.
Also have read that it's the "myco-bacterium" found in cows (and goats) milk that cause the Crohn's, and oddly enough a similar type of 'disease' can be found in some cows and goats intestinal tracts!
I've also read about something called "Helminthic therapy (Current research)", which sounds a little weird for those who have weak stomachs...but it sounds promising.
What you guys have said about the Azeo Pangen, and the Lactobacillis Acidopholus...I'm going to give them a try (the Acidopholus first, because I already have some in the fridge!).
Food for thought...The Food Pyramid (developed by the US Department of Agriculture (USDA)). Can anyone say wholly conspiracy?!  We all know you don't need dairy to be healthy (as long as you get your calcium, and your vit. D, etc.)...it's kind of funny that dairy is second on the list...
Anyways...happy hunting, and I'll be back to post my progress with the two afformentioned...one question:
1. I know that I avoid red meat (and pork)...and I noticed that Azeo Pangen... http://www.metagenics.com/products/catalog/detail.asp?pid=143
comes from Porcine Pancreas (for those of you who don't know: Pig Pancreas)!
---
Even ignoring sites such as "nomilk.com" linked by the previous poster, which sound a little less then objective, there does some to be some credible research on pubmed implicating infection (possibly from Cows) as a factor in Crohn's.  
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1365-2672.2005.02598.x?cookieSet=1
This study also detected Mycobacterium avium in people suffering from Crohn's.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=15380962&query_hl=3&itool=pubmed_docsum
Can anyone comment on this?  I'm not too informed about current research in the area beyond what I've seen on pubmed.
 152.3.198.219 00:48, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Research methods... 

message: http://www.vsl3.com/VSL3/default.asp
My mother in law says that there's a gentleman that comes into her pharmacy who picks this  probiotic up on a regular basis for his son.  She asked him, and he says it helps to keep things under control.
Not exactly sure what that means, but if he keeps dumping money into it...
:While VSL3 has been shown in randomized controlled trial to be useful for pouchitis treatment, my understanding is that it has not shown a similar benefit for CD -- Samir   धर्म 07:03, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wait! There's more 

message: 129.143.100.146 added a huge list of references, but it is unclear which reference refers to which factoid in the text. I've asked the contributor to improve this, but if this doesn't happen it may need to be deleted. JFW | T@lk 17:58, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: I began to wikify the article, but it needs a bit more tweaking by someone who knows about the subject. Foxjwill 01:04, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wikification 

message: I just noticed that a huge swath of text was copied from Mayoclinic.com.  The edits replacing original content with Mayoclinic's text can be seen at .  --Uthbrian (talk) 07:18, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with reversion of copyvio info -- Samir   धर्म 08:20, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Material copied from Mayoclinic.com 

message: Not referenced, and POV against medical therapy for CD.  Please cite literature that hypnosis helps with CD symptoms -- Samir   धर्म 09:31, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: NPOV on stress section

message: 150px|thumb|right|Rash 
A few things; if anyone has them, it would be great:
*Picture of erythema nodosum
*Pathology slides of Crohn's disease, preferably showing granulomata (I think I have some but they are low resolution)
-- Samir   धर्म 09:45, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sure, send it over.  -- Samir   धर्म 06:21, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Couple of things for this article

message: Most sources seem to suggest smoking increases the risk for Crohn's (and decreases for UC). Is this valid? should it be mentioned?M dorothy
:You're absolutely right... typo that was my fault in the article.  I've changed it back. -- Samir   धर्म 13:20, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Smoking

message: One complaint is that the article is too long. I could address that by moving the details about drugs and treatment to a new article, and writing a summary in the main article. Any votes on this?M dorothy 03:37, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Length

message: The article seems to be relatively well-written, (The vocabulary is very high, but I don't think its prohibitive, wikilinks should suffice) NPOV, (Though that might just because the symptoms of this disease creeped me out so much I might of missed it heh) Stable, the pictures are nice, (Though creepy) and the best part to me was the extensive references. If there is any way you can somehow lower the vocabulary level without getting the article off-topic i'd recommend it, and also, a few sections read sort of like lists, outlines, or outlines progressing through to some idea, I think one or two of those should be converted to paragraphs. Homestarmy 03:42, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good Article 

message: I'm wondering if there should be greater emphasis on the roles of hygiene and the immune system and treatment using pig whipworms.
There is a line of thought out there that because the disorder is largely Western (where people rarely suffer from intestinal parasites, as opposed to the developing world), and because whipworms have had such a dramatic effect in treating Crohn's sufferers, that perhaps much of Crohn's is an auto-immune disease.  The whipworms, in essence, serve to recalibrate an otherwise wayward immune system.
:One poor study in Gut on the therapy.  We should probably expand a bit on the hygiene hypothesis though.  -- Samir   धर्म 04:00, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Whipworm emphasis? 

message: As I see it the following:
#Prose: Point form looks like it is frowned upon
#Referencing the lead (which is quite well written)
#Reference for SB transplant (I need to pull up the Grant paper)
#Referencing table of comparison
#Referencing initial part of clinical manifestation (Podolsky or Hanauer reviews should suffice)
#A statement on prognosis
#Jargon as above; almost done
-- Samir   धर्म 09:14, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Table is good.  Not sure about refs in lead (my bias would be to add refs, as introductions are done in scientific reviews).  I'll check WP:MOS. -- Samir   धर्म 03:55, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  What's left for FAC 

message: Here is the comparison pointy text in case anybody wants to preserve it.
*Crohn's disease:
**Can occur anywhere in the gastrointestinal tract but commonly involves the terminal ileum
**Has a patchy distribution in the intestine.
**Has transmural inflammation where it spreads deep into the layers of affected tissues.
**Can have granulomata on biopsy
**May spare the rectum on endoscopy
**Has characteristic features on endoscopy including deep, linear and serpiginous (or snake-like) ulcers
**Can be associated with fistulae, abnormal connections or passageways between the intestine and organs or vessels that normally do not connect.
**Can exhibit peri-anal symptoms around the anus.
**Often returns following surgical removal of the affected part of the intestine.
*Ulcerative colitis:
**Usually affects only the large intestine and rectum
**Usually exhibits inflammation in a single area in a continuous fashion.
**Usually affects the only the mucosa, or the innermost lining of tissues.
**Has characteristic features on endoscopy including shallow, continuous ulcers and involvement of the rectum.
**Does not usually exhibit peri-anal involvement.
**Not usually associated with fistulae.
**Has a higher rate of primary sclerosing cholangitis 
**Can usually be cured by surgical removal of the large intestine.M dorothy 04:45, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Comparison text

message: To include them?  I think not.  Need solid references if they are to be included.  Personally, I think it's unencyclopedic.  Other medical articles seem to have followed suit in removing them.  See relevant section above at Talk:Crohn's disease#List of sufferers -- Samir   धर्म 17:45, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If it has become a problem, I typically create a list of famous sufferers page. InvictaHOG 17:59, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Good idea for this one.  I deleted these as they are unreferenced, but if there are credible references, it can go to List of individuals with Crohn's disease or somewhere similar.  -- Samir   धर्म 18:40, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

text: *I have created the page per List of notable people diagnosed with dyslexia. Philip Stevens 19:01, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Famous sufferers 

message: *Can you add a bit about Metastatic Crohn's Disease (also called Cutaneous Crohn's disease). It's very rare but worth a mention as the only stuff on the net seems to be tiny pieces about it or medical abstracts. I would do it but find it difficult to reference things properly. Metastatic Crohn's Disease is very rare- it's where Crohn's affects other parts of the body.. not the bowel. It is significantly different from secondary extraintestinal symptoms in that it is primary Crohn's disease in itself.Hope that makes sense.
Thanks,
Kez
31 July 2006
**I have a picture somewhere.  It would make a good article. -- Samir   धर्म 01:38, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  An addition (suggestion) 

message: I took a look at the article today because I know that a lot of great work had been ongoing to get this to FAC. I liked what I saw and think that this is a wonderfully written, well-referenced, nicely laid-out article. My only concern is that the reliance on lists will really attract negative votes at FAC. I like them in this setting and think that they work well; however, sections such as the extraintestinal manifestations, pathology, and drugs used will most likely be targeted. The desire is always to convert to a paragraph style. The extraintestinal manifestations would not be hard. Pathology is practically there and might slide by as is since it's well done. The drugs I don't know what to do with. It will be interesting to see what a peer review would come up with. I'll try to add more later, but won't change any of the formatting until everyone adds their thoughts! InvictaHOG 17:03, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Featured article candidacy

message: I like InvictaHOG's version a lot.  I would tweak as such:
Crohn's disease (also known as regional enteritis or CD) is a rare, chronic, episodic disease which can affect any part of the gastrointestinal tract from mouth to anus. Because it is a systemic disease, it can also cause complications outside of the gastrointestinal tract. The main gastrointestinal symptoms are abdominal pain and diarrhea, which may be bloody. Symptoms outside the gastrointestinal tract include skin rashes, arthritis, and ulcers in the mouth.
Crohn's disease is a type of inflammatory bowel disease (IBD). IBD occurs when the immune system contributes to damage of the gastrointestinal tract by causing inflammation. Crohn's disease can be difficult to distinguish from other forms of IBD such as ulcerative colitis. Because of the name, IBD can be confused with irritable bowel syndrome (IBS), an annoying but much less serious condition. 
Crohn's disease is a rare disease, affecting fewer than one person in 10,000 in Europe and North America. The disease is believed to be even less common in the rest of the world. Crohn's disease often develops in the teenage years, though individuals in their 60s and 70s are also at increased risk. 
Although the cause of Crohn's disease is not known, it is widely believed to be an autoimmune disease. There is a genetic component to susceptibility, and the disease may be triggered in a susceptible person by environmental factors. Unlike the other major type of IBD, ulcerative colitis, there is no known medical or surgical cure for Crohn's disease.  Many medical treatments are however available for Crohn's disease with a goal of keeping the disease in remission.
The disease was named for Burrill Bernard Crohn, an American gastroenterologist who, in 1932, first described a series of patients with inflammation of the terminal ileum, which we now know is one of the most common areas affected in patients with Crohn's disease.Crohn BB, Ginzburg L, Oppenheimer GD.  Regional ileitis: a pathologic and clinical entity.  Mt Sinai J Med. 2000 May;67(3):263-8.  
::BTW: The classic teaching is that Crohn, Ginzburg and Oppenheimer's work was novel in that they described terminal ileitis that did not respond to anti-TB therapy (i.e. streptomycin) but responded to steroids instead.
-- Samir   धर्म 05:29, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I like the changes made to the proposed version. The last paragraph is a single sentence, but could easily be changed, such as "The disease was named for Burrill Bernard Crohn, an American gastroenterologist.In 1932, he and two other physicians described a group of patients with inflammation of the terminal ileum, which we now know is one of the most common areas affected in patients with Crohn's disease.Crohn BB, Ginzburg L, Oppenheimer GD.  Regional ileitis: a pathologic and clinical entity.  Mt Sinai J Med. 2000 May;67(3):263-8.  " InvictaHOG 05:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Samir's version

message: This heading and section were added by Langrl2 and moved here for discussion.
:Recent Research
:Recent research indicates that cytokines, a group of chemicals that are produced by various cells in the body, may be responsible for generating the response of chronic pain associated with Crohn's Disease. Medications that affect the release of cytokines or block the action of cytokines may reduce the response of chronic pain. Various anti-cytokine medications are now being used to treat painful disease states such as Rheumatoid Arthritis, and Crohn's Disease. In addition, research using the anti-cytokine medication, Thalidomide, is being evaluated for its effect in treating chronic pain associated with Arachnoiditis.
I've notified the user and asked him/her to join the discussion. BaseballBaby 15:08, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  section added by [[User:Langrl2|Langrl2]] 

message: The article's currently a little too listy. LuciferMorgan 22:51, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it's unfortunate. We will have to work on that before FAC. InvictaHOG 19:44, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: So, I went ahead and did it. There's still quite a bit of work to do. I've updated the to do list. InvictaHOG 01:37, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Listy 

message: On checking the material for Crohns I was shocked to see that the BBC report suggesting a bacterial link was missing.
My own research with Crohns sufferers has shown tremendous improvements in the conditions of clients when treated for parasites.  
The logic is far too simple and straightforward and asks the question why has science totally ignored this somewhat obvious cause.
The history of ulcers, IBS and Crohns are interrelated and questionable, as all the diseases while different are very similar.
There is a tremendous amount of information in resource books suggesting a bacterial link, to Crohns even MS and more.
Also note the testing for giardia a common bacterial infection, is not very efficient, some 4-5 tests are needed to prove a negative test.
Just some leads for you other researchers.
--Son of Maryann Rosso and Arthur Natale Squitti 04:44, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Research findings. 

message: In talks with a Dr. Silas Kung, a noted world leading physicist, responsible for the 'the chip', his observation was quite simple and true, "in North America we treat the symptoms, not the cause'.
Well Crohns will be a monument to this microscopic error of reasoning; half-truth logic.
What could it be ?  An infection of sorts, but it seems the scientests are reluctant to disclose how little they know, or the financial pressures are on treatments, not a simple cure.
The Cause of Crohns, IBS, is an infection...a bacterial or parasitic infection, that simple....the complications can run the spectrum from diarrhea to MS...or even cancer, as the body react to the toxins, or the lack of proper absorption ...
A lead for reseachers....
--Son of Maryann Rosso and Arthur Natale Squitti 18:01, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Crohns: Treating the disease or the cause: Medical failure ? 

message: The following should be reworded.
"Inflammation of the interior portion of the eye, known as uveitis..."
Perhaps the word "wall" (or a more appropriate anatomical term) might be inserted following "eye", since the uvea is part of the choroid, whereas "interior portion" suggests the innermost part, which is actually the aqueous humor.  Also, the word "portion" is unnecessary, and sounds unscientific. D021317c 04:39, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Interior of the Eye 

message: In paragraph 1: it states the symptoms but part of that is weight loss and diarrhea.  Well some don't lose weight and constipation is there problem.  So maybe these can be added into the sentence.
:In paragraph 2: the age of who gets crohn's needs to add 30 through 50 year old. There are a lot, me included, who got the disease active during this time.  And my question:  what does the sentence "There is also an increased spouse risk, indicating a strong environmental factor" mean? Thanks,--Crohnie 20:32, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Question and comments 

message: I removed this image that ruined the format of the page. If anyone can find a way to fit it on the page properly, go for it. I had a good try but it just wouldn't fit anywhere without distorting the article. 
--Seraphim Whipp 12:13, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed picture

message: I added a weasel tag under the section dealing with diet cahnge because it said "some sufferers claim". Could someone who understands this section deal with it. Cpuwhiz11 13:13, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would not say that those words were necessarily weasel words, as reflecting upon my own problems it might be  generally understood that diet may affect symptoms. It may (or even probably) be commonly accepted in the Chron's community to try and affect changes by diet. Also, there may be known/unknown food allergies which would also affect symptoms. Hence that statement may not be weasely. I think that statement perhaps needs a citation or rephrasing, rather than outward elimination. Perhaps someone who specifically understands Chron's could chime in. Nodekeeper 18:02, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have Crohn's and know about diet and more.  I made some suggestions below about this.  Diet is a very personal thing.  Unfortunately, it is different for most everyone.  If we can make a title about diet it would be easier to edit it.   One of my pet peeves is spelling this disease correctly, would you please edit your post to spell Crohn's correctly?  I really would appreciate it.  Things like a food diary, tests to rule out Celiac disease and other things are also useful.  But basically what is acceptable to one Crohn's patient maybe harmful to another.  I have to get to bed but I would love to work this article with everyone if that is ok.  I am a new editor but I don't get my feeling hurt easily, I don't like flame wars and I definitely don't mind anyone correcting me, spelling or anything else.  --Crohnie 01:05, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Weasel Tag

message: The subtitle Gastrointestinal symptoms says that bleeding does not usually occur except for crohn's colitis.  This is not true.  Bleeding does show up when crohn's starts the serious damage.  Then the blood is different depending on where the location and how far along the disease is.  If the damage is new the blood is usually red, as the bleeding gets older and it's higher up the blood turns blackish and then it gets to a point that the bleeding can not be seen with the naked eye.  I'm not sure how to change this in the article so I defer to more knowledgable editors on this.  Thanks,--Crohnie 13:17, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Under symptoms 

message: I am a Crohn's patient and have uploaded the following still from a CT scan taken prior to surgery.
Image:CT_Scan_Bowel.JPG
Please feel free to add this the the Crohn's article should people feel it would be helpful.
Also I have video to YouTube of the same CT scan.. I don't know if this could be included but non the less I thought some of you looking at this page would find it very interesting... I am amazed at what these machines can do.
Video of my CT scan prior to Surgery
--Jsaveker 17:02, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pic & Video of recent CT 

message: Crohn's Disease Forum keeps being deleted from the appropriate section. There is no good reason for this to be happening.
:WP:EL -- Samir धर्म 04:52, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: First, Samir I wasn't the one to delete the site you posted but I did delete the other one.  But my understanding is personal websites like these are not allowed.  If I am wrong, and they are not spam, please advice me with policy.  I am still learning though I have been here quite a time but my learning curve do to meds for Crohn's slows me down with understanding.  Sincerely, --CrohnieGalTalk 13:06, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

text: Thanks for the info Jsaveker about the external links.  I don't know the answer about more pictures but I bet it is cool to see your virtual colonoscopy.  I haven't had that one yet but the camera pics I had were awesome.  Ask someone if you can upload it here.  I would love to see it. --CrohnieGalTalk 12:53, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, the picture is awesome.  Can you make it smaller?  If you can then I think you should go through the trouble and get it approved to be added to the article.  Of course this is just my opinion but I think it would help the article and it shows really well with what Crohn's patient's go through.  --CrohnieGalTalk 14:27, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Community Forums 

message: Short bowel syndome is very much part of Crohn's.  It usually occurs because of surgeries.  As for diet, maybe separating it out of where it is at would make it easier to expand on.  The information I have read is both inaccurate or not complete.  What I mean is that diet is a difficult thing to figure out.  What is good for one person might make another have a major flare or even a blockage.  You can read more about this at --Crohnie 13:31, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Does anyone have any ideas about my suggestion above?  Short bowel syndrome is very real to people who have had surgery, usually multiple surgeries.  I would appreciate any input on this, thanks.  --Crohnie 12:08, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggestion to add short bowel syndrome and diet  

message: These two are different and need to be separated into different sections.  Diet is one of the most difficult things to figure because what someone else can tolerate another may not.  Also, a list of 'no' foods can change with time. A lot of times a food get put on your list of not to eat, then down the road all of a sudden you can eat it without ill affects.  The has great examples about diet and how to handle it. Just for the record, I am not a doctor nor scientific, just a crohn's patient.  Please feel free to correct any errors I may make. --Crohnie 12:55, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Diet and Lifestyle 

message: shows that Crohn's patients are 50% more likely to die than their age-matched controls. JFW | T@lk 14:24, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The link you provide doesn't work, please try again. --Crohnie 14:48, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  The link doesn't work DOI is corect - Here's a link to the abstract.  I don't have access to the whole paper to read their methodology, but it does seem to indicate that there may be a higher mortality risk from Crohn's than previously believed. Spin2cool 18:08, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, yes I agree but it also seems to say at the end that more studies need to be done for new current practices.  Interesting though, --Crohnie 20:40, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

text: That data seems very weak Dabomb691 01:31, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mortality 

message: - thiopurines are associated with prematurity, but this may still be a marker of disease severity rather than actually being due to the meds. JFW | T@lk 12:08, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pregnancy and birth 

message: I reverted several links to the CCFA site and an advertising/PR blurb from the CCFA (made by an IP that traces back to the CCFA).  This is not an appropriate forum for advertising, and the CCFA site is already linked in the appropriate section.  If you wish to add more information about the CCFA and their mission, I suggest that you create a wikipedia page for the organization.  Spin2cool 18:38, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  CCFA Links 

message: This page lacks discussion of the potential aggrevating role
of ASCA in Crohn's disease or the discussion of lectin binding deficiencies that have been found in ASCA+ patients. This is one criteria missing from the table, Crohn's disease is associated with ASCA and ulcerative colitis has rather low levels. If you pubmed Crohn's and ASCA you will get 127 hits, with Crohn's and yeast 207 hits. This is obvious an area where the article is deficient relative to the literature.Pdeitiker 22:18, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Absolutely.  I've always wanted to add serology to the article -- Samir 05:58, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anti-yeast antibodies

message: I think the lead is too long and it's supposed to tell the reader what the disease is.  I personally think that it's too in-depth and even too medical for the common reader to understand what Crohn's is.  The comment that it attacks young people to older people is also incorrect these days.  Please read and see what it is trying to say, though I don't think I am saying it too well. Also, many do not lose a large amount of weight. --CrohnieGalTalk 12:06, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I would also love to see the article written so people understand it.  I for one don't understand a lot of what is said. --CrohnieGalTalk 12:07, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've wanted to do that for a while.  I wish I had more time.  -- Samir 04:10, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for you quick response to me.  I will try to find time to do it too.  Real life events have taken a lot of my time lately but I will try to get to this and make it reader friendly as soon as I can.  Were you able to see the info in the last magazine that was sent out to me?  Of course you know you have to sign up to CCFA to get to the articles.  If you have problems please let me know and I will email it to you or you are welcomed to email me, if you would like.  You being a GI, I know this magazine will be great interest to you. I plan on hopefully soon to be able to put some of this new info into the article, time allowing of course.  Also, the CCFA site has a lot of good new promising things happening.  --CrohnieGalTalk 11:49, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The lead 

message: I have been dealing with a nasty rash, would pictures be appropriate?  I am using Benedryl for the itchiness, 150 mg, and a steroid cream and an antibiotic cream.  The rash has been on going since Feb of this year.  The dermatologist also had me on a antibiotic, though right now I can't remember the name of it.  Would putting this info into the article about rashes be appropriate?  I know the name of both of the creams as I a still using them multiple times a day.  The antibiotic name I can probably get off my insurance list of medications.  This rash is annoying, itchy and at times very painful but it is not PG. The dermatologist said that this rash is a common rash for Crohn's patients and that stress can be a big trigger to set it off. (I got it originally when my husband had a heart attack.) If you want, you can respond here, my talk page or even email me.  I would really like to work with you on this article. --CrohnieGalTalk 12:23, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Worked lead a little bit, but I have to CD rash 

message: I removed text that proposed nightshade as a causative agent for multiple reasons.  The first is that it was uncited.  The second is that it appeared to be a self-promotion for a book.  If you'd like to re-add the info, please provide appropriate citations to peer-reviewed research that links nightshade to CD.  Spin2cool 02:11, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nightshade 

message: The bacterial link to Crohn's Disease is already covered, farther down in the section.  Most of what you added was redundant.  That said, some of it was also inaccurate.  The current state of knowledge seems to be that invasive bacteria take advantage of defective microbial clearance.  Thus, the bacteria are not causative of Crohns, but rather opportunistic pathogens.
It's also misleading to link any one bacterial species to CD, as several studies have implicated different species, including Enteroadherent and invasive E. coli and MAP.  In the most recent and most comprehensive bacterial survey of Crohn's patients, specific strains of E. coli were found to be linked to the disease, but neither MAP nor other suspected pathogenic bacteria were found Nature article
Spin2cool 02:11, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bacterial Link 

message: A write-up on CD and pregnancy would be helpful, especially since CD can affect the vulva and perineum. The article on caesarian notes that CD may be an indication for C-sections. Perhaps more could be included here.--Westendgirl 06:00, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I added information about pregnancy today at .  Maybe it's time to set up a title about Crohn's and pregnancy.  I know there is a lot of information pro and con about this esp. about the use of medications etc.  --CrohnieGalTalk 20:18, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pregnancy 

message: External links are to add information for the reader to locate things.   is a great community but not for Wikipedia of course not unless it is part of the article.  WP:EL says to keep external links down as much as possible so we don't have the reader leaving Wikipedia.  Sorry, but other policies also apply as far as I know and the External links area is quite long. --CrohnieGalTalk 20:52, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The object of external links is to add.... 

message: A small series from Wales shows that incidence of CD continues to rise slowly, but also that the disease pattern continues to favour the colon over the small bowel.  JFW | T@lk 21:15, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Incidence and patterns 

message: and  - IL23R and ATG16L1 linked... JFW | T@lk 15:28, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  IL23R 

message: About 5% of Crohn's patients are completely unable to work. Those with a low QOL and frequent relapses are the most likely to land in this category  JFW | T@lk 23:32, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am one of those who can not work do mostly to blockages and chronic pain issues.  Trying to get help though is almost impossible without the help of a doctor and an attorney.  I plan on doing this a week form today so maybe I'll have some info to update.  --CrohnieGalTalk 20:12, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Disability

message: I had 20 centimetres of my small bowel resected last Friday, as well as a bit of the large bowel and the appendix (not shown), and I was wondering if the article needed some stronger images to show how bad the disease can get in patients who have surgery as their last option like I did.
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t297/kowbrainz/bowel2.png
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t297/kowbrainz/bowel1.png
Basically any part which isn't a lush pink colour like new strawberry bubblegum is inflamed to some extent, whether it be the bloody red bits, the yellow or the black parts. The metal tool indicates a fistula which was present in the side of the bowel.
If the images are considered too strong for general audiences, then that's fine. If not, then feel free to upload them again to Wikipedia by all means.
Thanks,
Nathan  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.169.87.225 (talk) 09:00, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I personally think the photos are appropriate for the article.  I didn't get to see what I had sectioned out but your pictures sure hit home with me.  You have to go through the acceptance to release the photos for use.  I did that, with help from my mentor, of my rash.  I hope you are doing better now.  I just got out of the hospital so maybe when I get my records I will be able to see what the tests showed too.  Better health to you and happy editing. --CrohnieGalTalk 13:36, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bowel Resection Photos 

message: I added the Crohn's Colitis Foundation of America and I plan to add more later.--CrohnieGalTalk 18:53, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  External link 

message: I was recently found to have Crohn's and I have noticed that this article doesn't seem to have any information about the highly accurate serologic blood tests now being used. That was the very first test my doctor initiated. He found I had the positive serologic markers for the disease (Prometheus IBD Serology; that are 98% accurate), severe anemia of a megaloblastic nature (an astounding feat for a person with beta thalassemia, to go from very small red blood cells to gigantic), elevated liver, and a normal sedimentation rate. My colonoscopy and barium swallow both came back normal only for the wireless capsule endoscopy to reveal extensive damage in the small intestine. My symptoms were loose bowel movements at a rate of one every hour for about a year, blood in my stool, tingling sensation of the fingers, sores in my mouth, fatigue, dramatic increase in nummular dermatitis, and inflammation of the eye. And he believes it to be related to my mother's multiple sclerosis. 71.219.78.10 (talk) 07:02, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Glad you got the diagnosis; hopefully along with that you'll get some relief of your symptoms with treatment. Thanks for asking about serology. Those tests are actually complicated, because their value is in part determined by your doctor's a priori estimate of your odds of having Crohn's. (See positive predictive value for more info.) Serology can be useful, but it still can't make the diagnosis just yet (at least that's what I was taught in med school this week - what timing!?). Anyway, this probably means that it's even more important to get a good serology section in this article. If I ever get my life/free time back, I'll help out. Antelan talk 07:33, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: First let me say I am glad you got diagnosed.  It took me over a year and emergency exploratory surgery for my Crohn's to be seen and I had all the tests.  I didn't have the camera back in '00-'01 as the camera was not available for me at that time.  In a way since I had totally dead tissue which the surgery ended up removing half my small bowel, cecum valve and over 12” of small intestines. The camera would have gotten stuck in me putting me in surgery anyways to remove the camera.  Keep in mind that not all tests, including the blood work shows the problems.  I had my blood taken many times, had around 4 scopes, 5 barium enemas, many cat scans and so on.  None of the tests showed the damage.  When I asked my surgeon about taking all these tests and nothing showing up he told me that a colonoscopy was about 75% successful at showing the problems.  All the other tests were even lower in percentage.  I believe he said that bloods and barium tests were at about 50% accuracy.  So, I'm really thrilled it helped up but if you research Crohn's you will see that everyone is different with everything from what you can eat to even how helpful the available tests are.  Frustrating? You bet!  I have had three surgeries since my '01 surgery and I have another one knocking on the door for me that I am delaying for as long as possible.  I would like to see this article more informative and more 'people friendly' than it is now, which is what I am trying to do. If you can help add more to this article so that anyone can come to this article and understand better what CD is.  To me it's too medical and is better understood by professionals or people with a good scientific background, which I am not! :)  --CrohnieGalTalk 20:48, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Serology 

message: Should it talk about Dr. Crohn and his collegues and then explain the others?  It seems backwards in reading it.  Thoughts?  --CrohnieGalTalk 14:28, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Looks like it is written in chrono order, which makes sense to me.  The whole section could definitely be expanded, and the referencing is less stringent - CCFA could be a source as could other official governing bodies' websites.  WLU (talk) 16:41, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  History section 

message: The reason I tried a different wording in the infobox is because on my browser everything in the third line of text is cut off.  Is it a direct quote?  Can the picture be adjusted?  Am I unique in this problem?  WLU (talk) 22:04, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: What's your operating system and browser version? Maybe who knows Wikipedia markup better than we do can fix it. Nbauman (talk) 22:34, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Infobox caption 

message: The colon ca shown is an adeno ca arising in uninflammed colon.  Ca in Crohn's often develops from flat lesions.  The Ca shown here is atypical for colon ca associated with Crohn's.  It is a nice pic of an advanced adenoma, early colon ca, though.  Kd4ttc (talk) 05:50, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's pretty difficult to get pictures for pages like this one that are GFDL-compatible.  Though calling for a better one isn't a bad idea.  If you're certain of the issues with the picture, feel free to adjust the caption to reflect this.  WLU (talk) 12:45, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I understand.  Luckily, I don't see much Ca in my IBD patients, sending the occasional patient at the dysplasia stage.  Rather than confuse the public on this fine point let's just keep an eye out for something we can use. Kd4ttc (talk) 17:52, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a pretty obscure topic (someone with two very specific comorbidities), so good luck.  You could try the Commons perhaps.  I'm surprised to see it at all, it's the rare doctor who would ask "by the way, can I throw a picture of your colon cancer on wikipedia?"  That's ballsy.  WLU (talk) 18:00, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

text: If I get a pic I'll post it.  More likely now is to see dysplasia in a dysplasia associated raised mass, known to us obscure IBD people as a DARM.  I've got a few pics up on wikipedia.  I'm proud of my polypectomy resection seen there.  With no patient ID it works well, and I encourage other docs to put their pics here.  I guess Ballsy is as Ballsy does.  Kd4ttc (talk) 17:50, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Colon Ca example misleading

message: A claim popped up here about the SCD diet.  No one in clinical medicine uses it.  The reference that was added was malformed.  The SCD diet does come up on a lot of lists for IBD treatment, so mentioning it is reasonable.  The reference and discussion would be better if it were on the SCD diet page, which this article links to.  Kd4ttc (talk) 17:46, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Fixed the reference and added pubmed number.  There's no abstract, so I can't tell what the article is actually about.  If the citation says there is no evidence it works, why is it here?  This is the second time this has been spammed to the page. If there's no evidence it is useful for CD, I agree it should be removed.  WLU (talk) 18:00, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: SCD diet

message: Looked odd that this was barely mentioned, its listed even if Wiki's own list as a confirmed Autoimmune Disease (rather than suspected). I know its not in MeSH as such. Many autoimmune sufferers have another disease plus Crohns, is it not beyond doubt? I editted. Also under "Classification" it actually attempts to categorize (would that be a better word in text) the different kinds as they present....io_editor (talk) 03:02, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Autoimmune Disease & "Classification"

message: I removed the two sections about incontinence since I didn't see anything useful for this article.  Please feel free to put them back in if there is something I missed to show the connection someone was trying to make. 
Also, a suggestion, I would like input about the three new sections about MAP.  The information is good to me but instead of just external links in the 'see also' shouldn't these be put into the article explaining the possible uses MAP has for Crohn's patients?  Just a thought, though I am also unsure if the three links should even be in the 'see also' section.
I guess what I am trying to say is I would like others input on this prior to adjusting the article.  Which section would "MAP" even go into or would it have its own header?  Thanks in advance for any input.  --CrohnieGalTalk 11:23, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  See also section 

message: http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/300/4/439 - Burrill C. and his bunch in the historical spotlight. Unsure if the PDF of the original paper is free. JFW | T@lk 22:47, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  JAMA historical 

message: In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :) 
* "Bernstein" :
** 
** 
DumZiBoT (talk) 11:48, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bot report : Found duplicate references ! 

message: I was sure there was a source that pointed to a 'bacterial' cause, as was the case with ulcers.
It appears the whole 'intestinal system' diseases are merely flaws in testing.
As to the genetic component, seems people of a 'Genetic' background  would be more suseptible to diseases that, so this 'genetic' flaw is really a half-truth.
Listeria, or giardia difficult to detect, can cause related problems.   There are links about, and it is important to find them.
--Caesar J. B. Squitti  :  Son of Maryann Rosso and Arthur Natale Squitti 03:42, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There is no known cause as you know and putting in that there are isn't acceptable to Wikipedia.  Your links above do not show that bacteria is the cause or cure of Crohn's.  They also speculate that the reasons that IBD is not prominent in other counties may be do to lack of medical care and diagnoses.  Your last ref states that there is no known reasons here "There are theories, but at this point we're not really sure what causes IBD," Fedorak said.  "I truly believe research is being corrupted into simple causes, and allowing the disease to exist." this comment does not factor in to making a good article.  Please do not add this information to the article.  I remember it was deleted and you were asked not to put it back in.  You think it's half truths but your personal opinions about bacteria doesn't belong in the article, sorry. Also giardia can be tested and found. --CrohnieGalTalk 14:07, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Neither of those sources meet the high standards required of medical pages (see WP:MEDRS).  Wikipedia is about verifiability, not truth; in this case verifiability requires high-quality sources, which means medical journals.  Try looking on pubmed to see if the UAlberta researcher has published anything, but based on those sources there is no reason to change the main page.  WLU (talk) Wikipedia's rules(simplified) 17:49, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

text: Thank you for the opinion.
1. How can China and Africa afford better medical care and diagnosis ?
2. Co-incidently having spent some 18 years with an 'undetected intestinal infection' the experience has left me for an insight into the system's inability nor desire to find a treatment.  You and I are making assumptions.  They, the drug companies, like the cigarette companies are in business of what ?
3.  I am glad to see the Canadian governemnt moving to remove the pharmaceutical drug influence.schools and journals fight drug industry influence
4.  There is a strong influence on many publications to include or not include research.  Remember many researchers are sworn to alligince and secrecy.
5.  A section should add 'the possibility' and secondary sources given the corruption in the whole medical field.  If China and Africa can cure the disease why can't North America.  Its a different system, a sysetm that rewards diseases....
Sad to see that the 'bacterial link' is missing...then again, let history record this.
--Caesar J. B. Squitti  :  Son of Maryann Rosso and Arthur Natale Squitti 00:02, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Talk pages are for discussing changes to the main pages.  Please do not use them to soapbox.  If you do not have any suggestions or sources to back up your original research, there's no point in continuing this conversation.  WLU (t) (c) (rules - simple rules) 13:35, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cause, cure and genetics. 

message: The article has a line somewhere about siblings of a person with crohn's being 30 times more likely than the general population to develop the disease. The problem is, it doesn't say what the incidence in the general population is - so how do we know the odds that '30 times more likely' equates to? Is someone familiar with the proper figures and could maybe put it in the form of, say, 'A person whose sibling has Crohn's has a 1 in *number* chance of developing Crohn's'?
(This is actually the question that I came to the article looking for the answer to).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.9.146.23 (talk) 00:27, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Incidence in siblings 

message: In Canada the government has moved to remove the influence of drug companies on the medical system.  "The influence that the pharmaceutical companies, the for-profits, are having on every aspect of medicine ... is so blatant now you'd have to be deaf, blind and dumb not to see it," said Journal of the American Medical Association editor Dr. Catherine DeAngelis[Medical schools and journals fight drug industry influence  Medical schools and journals fight drug industry influence]
If China and Africa, using old traditional practices can treat this disease what is it about the North American system. 
A word of caution to accept what you read, and note any conflict of interest...'sockpuppets' as you call them in wikipedia.com
--Caesar J. B. Squitti  :  Son of Maryann Rosso and Arthur Natale Squitti 00:11, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Again, there is no suggestion on how to change the main page, and that's not even a source.  Please do not use wikipedia for advocacy, this is not your mouthpiece.  WLU (t) (c) (rules - simple rules) 13:38, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Credibility of sources ? 

message: The article has a line somewhere about siblings of a person with crohn's being 30 times more likely than the general population to develop the disease. The problem is, it doesn't say what the incidence in the general population is - so how do we know the odds that '30 times more likely' equates to? Is someone familiar with the proper figures and could maybe put it in the form of, say, 'A person whose sibling has Crohn's has a 1 in *number* chance of developing Crohn's'?
(This is actually the question that I came to the article looking for the answer to).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.9.146.23 (talk) 00:24, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Incidence in siblings