Talk:Syllable rime

message: I color-coded the western vs. chinese phonology table based on a HLS color space scheme in order to show corresponding elements.  Parts which correspond to each other in each scheme have the same color.  Parts which have slight differences correspond to shifts in hue.  The hue for each header entry is calculated by using the following algorithm.  Each of the schemes have parts that incorporate the following 5 elements, listed with their corresponding hue (on a 0-239 scale):
#Initial consonant, hue = 160
#Prenuclear glide, hue = 120
#Main vowel, hue = 80
#Postnuclear glide, hue = 40
#Final consonant, hue = 0
In order to determine the hue of a heading, take the average of the hues of each element that heading incorporates.  For instance, the rime in the first Chinese phonology scheme incorporates the main vowel, the postnuclear glide, and the final consonant, so its hue is (80 + 40 + 0) / 3 = 40.
The saturation of each heading (on a 0-240 scale) is determined by how many elements each header is composed of:
#1 element, saturation = 240
#2 elements, saturation = 160
#3 elements, saturation = 80
#4 elements, saturation = 40
#5 elements, saturation = 0
Thus, taking the previous example of the rime in the first Chinese phonology scheme, since it has 3 elements, it has a saturation of 80.
For the Pinyin and IPA headings, I just used hue of 120 and 40, respectively, and a saturation of 80.
All headings then have a luminance of 180 (on a 0-240 scale).  The entries below each heading have a luminance of 210.
Once the HLS value is caculated, I convert it to the RGB values to use in the table.
So, we end up with a table with the corresponding (H,L,S) numbers:
Syllable(80,180,0)	Syllable(80,180,0)	 	Western phonology(80,180,0)	Western phonology(80,180,0)	Western phonology(80,180,0)	 	Chinese phonology 1(80,180,0)	Chinese phonology 1(80,180,0)	Chinese phonology 1(80,180,0)	Chinese phonology 1(80,180,0)	 	Chinese phonology 2(80,180,0)	Chinese phonology 2(80,180,0)	Chinese phonology 2(80,180,0)	Chinese phonology 2(80,180,0)
Syllable(80,180,0)	Syllable(80,180,0)	 	Onset(160,180,240)         	Rime(60,180,40)            	Rime(60,180,40)            	 	Initial(160,180,240)         	Final(60,180,40)             	Final(60,180,40)             	Final(60,180,40)             	 	Initial(Onset)(160,180,240)  	Final(Rime)(60,180,40)       	Final(Rime)(60,180,40)       	Final(Rime)(60,180,40)
Syllable(80,180,0)	Syllable(80,180,0)	 	Onset(160,180,240)         	Rime(60,180,40)            	Rime(60,180,40)            	 	Initial(160,180,240)         	Medial(120,180,240)          	Rime(40,180,80)              	Rime(40,180,80)              	 	Initial(Onset)(160,180,240)  	Final(Rime)(60,180,40)       	Final(Rime)(60,180,40)       	Final(Rime)(60,180,40)
Pinyin(120,180,80)	IPA(40,180,80)    	 	Onset(160,180,240)         	Nucleus(80,180,80)         	Coda(0,180,240)            	 	Initial(160,180,240)         	Medial(120,180,240)          	Nucleus(80,180,240)          	Coda(20,180,160)             	 	Initial(Onset)(160,180,240)  	Medial(120,180,240)          	Nucleus(60,180,160)          	Coda(0,180,240)
(120,210,80)      	(40,210,80)       	 	(160,210,240)              	(80,210,80)                	(0,210,240)                	 	(160,210,240)                	(120,210,240)                	(80,210,240)                 	(20,210,160)                 	 	(160,210,240)                	(120,210,240)                	(60,210,160)                 	(0,210,240)
                  	                  	 	                           	                           	                           	 	                             	                             	                             	                             	 	                             	                             	                             	
                  	                  	 	                           	                           	                           	 	                             	                             	                             	                             	 	                             	                             	                             	
                  	                  	 	                           	                           	                           	 	                             	                             	                             	                             	 	                             	                             	                             	
                  	                  	 	                           	                           	                           	 	                             	                             	                             	                             	 	                             	                             	                             	
                  	                  	 	                           	                           	                           	 	                             	                             	                             	                             	 	                             	                             	                             	
                  	                  	 	                           	                           	                           	 	                             	                             	                             	                             	 	                             	                             	                             	
                  	                  	 	                           	                           	                           	 	                             	                             	                             	                             	 	                             	                             	                             	
                  	                  	 	                           	                           	                           	 	                             	                             	                             	                             	 	                             	                             	                             	
                  	                  	 	                           	                           	                           	 	                             	                             	                             	                             	 	                             	                             	                             	
--Umofomia 11:00, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  color coded the table 

message: I'm wondering, why is this article all about Mandarin? It should probably be about syllable rhymes in general, and I think there's already enough material about Mandarin rhymes that they probably deserve their own article. Zocky | picture popups 21:54, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scope of the article 

message: The concept of a syllable rime is not described in this article. The best we get is "the rime or rhyme of a syllable consists of a nucleus and an optional coda." The article also does not even hint at how rimes are used outside of Chinese. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.21.168.14 (talk) 16:13, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Concept not defined 

message: I echo HagermanBot. This is one of those Wikipedia articles which is informative only for those who already know quite a lot about the subject, and is written by such people. They seemingly do not realise, or have forgotten, that non-specialists will not have a clue. I am a language teacher and studied linguistics as part of my degree, and yet I am pretty baffled here. The opening of the article must tell us clearly what this rime business is all about and why it is of importance. APW (talk) 06:52, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  What's it all about? 

message: There's no reason for the article on Syllable rime to focus solely on English and Chinese phonology.  The article should be about syllable rime in general, maybe with a couple of examples from Chinese; as it is, it's mostly just a comparison/discussion of english and chinese phonology.  The stuff we have here should be in its own article (appropriately titled "chinese syllable structure" or something), or just removed (since this page links to the Chinese version anyway).  There is some serious editing that needs to be done here; I will start making some changes soon but hopefully someone who is a phonologist will come forward to do more accurate work than what I can do (and, most importantly, non-language-specific work).  This applies to the Syllable onset article as well.  --Politizer (talk) 15:25, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I am now deleting the Chinese-specific stuff from this article.  Sometime in the future I may start to add some information that is language-neutral; in the meantime, however, it would be great if a phonology expert could work on the article a little. --Politizer (talk) 19:31, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I have started adding some things--mostly a language-neutral description of why the rhyme level is of hierarchy is posited.  --Politizer (talk) 23:19, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Article must be language-neutral

message: Neither onset, nor nucleus nor coda still have articles of their own. Should we merge this article with the relevant sections (#Rime or #Rhyme and #Final) in the main syllable article, too? The article seems to have been tagged with that suggestion for one and a half years already. — Christoph Päper 12:13, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: What the heck – I just went ahead and did it, one paragraph was the same already anyhow. — Christoph Päper 12:38, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge with Syllable article