Talk:Aleksei Losev

message: This is not an article, it's trash bin. Why Losev is important at all? His main works not mentioned at all - symbolism and mythology, history of esthetic. Please, do not embarrass yourself - remove this at all, you can't write anything decent on Russian philosophy, you don't know the subject.     — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.165.173.131 (talk) 01:49, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Complete mess

message: I don't think the article is big enough to be divided to major sections. --Barbatus 22:44, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Old talk

message: If I'm not mistaken, most of recently added to the list works of Losev's are published in Russian. Do they belong here? Barbatus 14:27, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course they do -- I added Losev's most important works (accoprding to reference work in my native language). Originals have usually been added in similar Wikipedia articles. Constanz - Talk 15:24, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I disagree: his most important works could be (and have been) mentioned in the article, but for the list of publications available (hence ISBN/ISSN numbers) for an English reader they are not useful at all. Barbatus 17:05, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

text: ... Oh, by the way: is Russian your native language? Really? Barbatus 17:06, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No, I'm Estonian. These titles are some oh Losev's major works, thus they should be mentioned.--Constanz - Talk 05:50, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Mentioned, yes. But do they belong to the Bibliography, that is, in our case, a list of published works available to a reader? Besides, there's a link to the Russian Wiki article on Losev, where one can find list of his works in Losev's native language, if one's interested. --Barbatus 13:51, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Bibliography

message: Here is the text:
User:Galassi is IMO tendentiously editing that article. Adding those quotes cherrypicked from the thousands of pages the scholar has written is not encyclopedic at all. All those quotes plus category:antisemitism (unfounded as of now, cf googlebooks query: ) have been added with the obvious agenda of tarring the person concerned. If Galassi is keen on continuing with POVish editing, 'Losev's homophobia' might also be a good topic to go on with :). --Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 13:04, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: 1. There is no cesorship on Wikipedia. 2. Try a Russian Google search on "Losev+Jews". Galassi (talk) 13:06, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: First of all, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not SL Õhtuleht. Secondly, we should prefer English sources, if possible, and you obviously don't have any. Thirdly, when in case of Igor Shafarevich we did indeed have a case of a Russian chauvinist with antisemitic traits (the question was your ORish interpretations and undue weight), now you are defaming an eminent scholar. You are just picking out some of his quotes in order to further your theory that Losev was primarily an ugly antisemite and misogynist (the latter accusation gives out that you are here not in order to produce encyclopedic content but to exercise your vendetta against some individuals). --Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 13:16, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: 1.Wiki is not a FORUM either. 2. In the case of Shafarevich you have an administrative opinion. 3. These quotes figure prominently in ctiticism of Losev. We just report the facts here. 4. Wiki does NOT proscribe citations in other languages, especially when translations are provided. 5. I don't think Losew was ugly, and I didn't say that he was anti-semite. Just that his writings CONTAIN PASSAGES OF SUCH NATURE.Galassi (talk) 13:24, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd say, by deciding those quotations unambiguously testify his antisemitic nature, you are doing original research.As for your suggested google search in Russian, I came across this article by a Jewish author. --Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 13:43, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Losev himself in Addenda:"Феодализм – высшая ступень в развитии человечества, торжество Бога; феодализм падает под ударами сатаны, дальнейшая история есть история развертывания и оформления сатанинского духа. Ступени этого развертывания – капитализм, социализм, анархизм. Историческим носителем духа сатаны является еврейство. Марксизм и коммунизм есть наиболее полное выражение еврейского (сатанинского) духа. Последним этапом воплощения духа сатаны будет анархия, неизбежно вытекающая из социализма."Galassi (talk) 13:50, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: *This is just another perfect example of citation out context and WP:OR. Here is critical discussion of precisely these statements by Losev by someone who knows what he is talking about. (Своеобразие ультраконсервативной мифологии Лосева состоит в том, что, не будучи безличной, она принципиально безгеройна: в ней действуют не герои, а персонифицированные духовно-религиозные силы: Бог и Сатана, Христос и Антихрист, христианство и еврейство). Yes, he criticizes Losev, but that type of critique (if properly summarized) can be indeed included in the article. My very best wishes (talk) 19:51, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

text: Not to forget that losev + misogyny has exactly 51 ghits. Good luck with losev + homophobia! --Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 13:51, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: In fact, Galassi, your editing style  - cherrypicked quotes as 'evidence' of supposed misdeeds, chronic undue weight problems, anachronistic emphasis on 'misogyny' etc - can only be compared with the heap of rubbish that was once collected @ Joachim Hoffmann. Note that the 'case' against Dr. Hoffmann was indeed made up of citations, 'enriched' with nasty comments and original research - all of which led some 'useful idiots' to believe that falsifications en masse made up a 'longer and better version'. Not that you have ever reached that apogee, but your editing style looks similar to that (extreme) example. --Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 13:58, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, so you are in the Hoffmann camp as well? That figures. Nice to know. BTW, try googling "Алексей+Лосев+Женщина"!Galassi (talk) 19:56, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I dare say I'd stand for neutrality and encyclopedic coverage both in case of Dr. Joachim Hoffmann and д-р Mikhail Meltyukhov (see talk!). The viewpoints of scholars have to be presented fairly, though we shouldn't cling to their all of their works, of course. --Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 15:52, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

text:  No we don't. Neither Gumilev's  nor Losev's works are "mostly" anti-Semitic, by this aspect is notable for the reason of both subjects' general intellectual notability, as both of them lent respect to an otherwise odious mindset. There is also a great diffeence between calling someone an antisemite (which we don't!) and saying that one's writing contains antisemitic elements (what we actually do).Galassi (talk) 02:18, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  The section actually looks decent in its current form.Galassi (talk) 02:35, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

text: We've had a consensus here for 3 years already.--Galassi (talk) 18:53, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: What consensus? Based on comments above, you are alone here; four other editors (including IP and me) suggest fixing this serious POV problem. I self-reverted by now, but it does not mean I agree with current version. Just to be frank, instead of describing his work/studies (and he created a lot), this page provides a few cherry-picked quotation selected to paint him as an antisemite. This is very far from following NPOV.My very best wishes (talk) 19:17, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: In fact, this is very simple. I made Google books search for "Aleksei Losev", and it retrieved 617 (!) English language books that mention Losev. I quickly looked through a few of them, and none of them described Losev as an antisemite. I am sure you can find a lot of Russian internet sources that tell whatever, but there no need to use them in an article about a person described in hundreds English language books. My very best wishes (talk) 19:32, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Antisemitism, misogyny and seven deadly sins.  

message: Sergei or Sergey Zemlyanoy (October 9, 2000) "Clerical-conservative mythological dystopia: Alexey Losev". (Note that Google translates Zemlyanoy into the English word "Ground" or "Earth".)
*Original URL: http://www.krotov.info/lib_sec/08_z/zem/zemlyanoy.html
**Google machine translation to English: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://www.krotov.info/lib_sec/08_z/zem/zemlyanoy.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.krotov.info/lib_sec/08_z/zem/zemlyanoy.html%26biw%3D1024%26bih%3D638
**Discussion: This website is self-published by Yakov Krotov who is a Russian Orthodox priest in Moscow, a radio preacher by career. It cannot be considered a reliable source. Binksternet (talk) 23:56, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakov_Krotov FYI.--Galassi (talk) 00:39, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

text: This is apparently outside your competence. You need to be bilingual. A machine translation is just not enough. There is no misrepresentation of any kind. Yakov Krotov is a scholar, being a clergyman is not a disqualifying characteristic. --Galassi (talk) 00:34, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Zemlyanoy

message: In the 1920s and '30s, Marianna Gerasimova was an investigator with the Soviet secret police. She married novelist Yury Libedinsky, who was serving as the editor of Zvezda literary magazine. Marianna continued with her secret police work after marriage. However, she grew ill with a brain condition, migraine headaches, and she left her job. In the mid-1930s, Libedinsky was named an enemy of the Soviet government, and both he and Marianna were put imprisoned. Very ill, Marianna was freed in November 1941 to live with her sister Valeriya in Moscow. (See Twentieth-century Russian literature, by Harry Thornton Moore and Albert Parry, published by Southern Illinois University Press in 1974. Pages 55–56.)
One of Marianna Gerasimova's assignments was to investigate Aleksei Losev because of his new publication The Dialectic of Myth, which revealed the fatal flaws in the basic assumptions used to construct the Soviet system. Her job was to make Losev appear to be an antisemitic nationalist member of the Black Hundreds, a reactionary ideologue and a dangerous religious fanatic. She said he was the "leader of a sabotage group to overthrow Soviet power." (See Vladimir Leonidovich Marchenkov's "Aleksei Losev and His Theory of Myth" from 2003.) 
On April 18, 1930, Losev was arrested. His wife was arrested two months later. Both of them were sentenced to hard labor. His book was discussed that summer at the 16th Congress, with L.M. Kaganovich and V.M. Kirshon speaking strongly against it. Losev was moved from Lubyanka's prison to Butyrskaia Prison, then to a labor camp to work on constructing the White Sea – Baltic Canal. Losev was freed in 1933 after nearly going blind, but he was not allowed to write about philosophy. Sergei Khoruzhii writes that Losev was freed largely by the urging of Gorky's first wife, Yekaterina Peshkova, who was a leader of the Political Red Cross.
Leonid Stolovich wrote about this issue, the politically motivated identification of Losev as a threat to the Soviet government. He wrote very strongly against such a notion, the article titled "Losev should not be handed over as a gift to the Black Hundred followers!" (See Vladimir Leonidovich Marchenkov's "Aleksei Losev and His Theory of Myth" from 2003.) Binksternet (talk) 20:19, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: http://www.kongord.ru/Index/Screst/sk137-10.htm Losev returns to favor and his detractors (more often than not Jewish) get a bullet from Stalin. Pretty interesting.--Galassi (talk) 20:29, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  Maxim Gorky apparently held Losev as an antisemite - http://sceptic-ratio.narod.ru/re/losev.htm - even more interesting.--Galassi (talk) 20:32, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

text: That would fall under WP:SYNTH. But the fact of Gorky's opinion remains (Gorky was a notable philosemite, but you wouldn't hold it against him, would you?).--Galassi (talk) 22:13, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: By trying to discredit Gorky, Losev wont be whitewashed from his Anti-Semitic views, nor should this fact be censored from the readers.--Tritomex (talk) 22:29, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  In fact, WP:CENSOR is it.--Galassi (talk) 22:33, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

text: @Galassi. No, that would not be WP:SYN. For example, Vadim Birshtein in his book on history of Soviet science makes a parallel between human experimentation in Soviet Union and Nazi Germany and quotes Gorky in this connection. However, I would never try to emphasize this in article about Gorky (actually this should not be even mentioned in a brief biography), as you do in article about Losev. My very best wishes (talk) 22:40, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Marianna Gerasimova investigation

message: Can we have a request for semi-protection this article has been around for awhile and its frustrating having to worry about this article being vandalised Thanks.
— Zppix (talk) 14:25, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request 

message: This content was misleading and POV: . Please provide accurate description and quote the source in the discussion. Thank you. --Asterixf2 (talk) 07:47, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conflict with Communism 

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