Talk:The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints/Archive 2

message: British Israelism again? Some mention of it may fit somewhere in this article, but the latest addition is just false:
:As longtime adherents to the British-Israel theory (see item 10 in the Articles of Faith), they teach that their white members are direct descendents of the lost tribes of Israel, which means they get a set of blessings and responsibilities above and beyond those given to all mankind. This doctrine especially comes into play when a Mormon receives his "Patriarchal Blessing". The patriarchal blessing given to non-Israelite church members is slightly different from that given to Israelite members, but no less glorious and heavenly.
That whole paragraph is false thru and thru...patriarchal blessings indicate into which tribe a member of the Church is adopted...there is no claim that a member is necessarily a "direct descendant" and color ("white") has nothing to do with it. "non-Israelite church members"?! What?! there is no such thing in the Church. Every member baptized into the Church and given the Gift of the Holy Ghost is entitled to be adopted into a tribe of Israel regardless of race or anything else...one might go so far to say even if the member were by chance a direct descendant, that member may be adopted into a different tribe. Despite Arline's POV on this doctrine, it is NOT the doctrine of the Church NOR the members at large.  B 04:47, 20 Oct 2003 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with BoNoMoJo here. Is this the same person that keeps adding this stuff? —Frecklefoot 15:57, 21 Oct 2003 (UTC)

text: Read the Mormon churches own Articles of Faith.  Item number 10 talks of the literal gathering of the tribes of Israel.  If it was talking about spiritual Israelites, or Israelites by adoption, it would not have used that wording.  I suggest that you aren't an old-time Mormon, or aren't even a Mormon at all.  Or perhaps you are trying to hide and white-wash the Mormon churches racial teachings. It may be politically inconvenient for those beliefs to be publicly known, but they are a matter of public record, and to remove them from this article is to hide an important part of your churches theology.  I stand by everything I wrote in this article. --Arline
Arline, the only person of the 4 people currently involved in this discussion who is not an "old-time Mormon" is YOU. Arline stated: "5 mormons, including 3 missionaries, all told me in person they believe in British Israelism". Arline, very few missionaries-in-the-field have even heard the term "British Israelism" let alone even understand what that doctrine is. You have 3 matured, returned missionaries repeated tell you now that British Israelism is not a doctrine of the Church... Nor is it believed by the members at large nor is it even believed by a significant number of members...and even if it was believed, they would be mistaken that it is a doctrine...and your anecdote does not make it so. It would be one thing if you cited an authoritative Church source that interprets Article 10 in the way that YOU do. But Article 10 does not mean what you imply it does. It means simply what it says it does: that the tribes of Israel (and by implication that could be by direct descent or adoption) will literally be gathered together. There is no authoritative Church source that interprets article 10 in the manner you do...not a single one. Don't misrepresent the Church's doctrines and stop propogandizing with your prejudicial bigotry against Mormonism. B 23:40, 21 Oct 2003 (UTC)

text: Well said, BoNoMoJo. I had never heard of BI until I saw it mentioned in this article. After reading the entry on BI, I didn't find it consistant with any Church teaching, and I've been a member as long as I can remember. Even if you do find one source, Arline, to back up your claim, it does not make it valid. Any valid church doctrine will be backed up by numerous sources. For example, many church leaders have discussed repentance. —Frecklefoot 14:02, 22 Oct 2003 (UTC)
thread_title: British Israelism Again