Talk:Herod II

message: I just re-wrote the article. Herodias was not the wife of Philip, as this quote from Josephus (vol 18,5,1) will show: "ABOUT this time Aretas (the king of Arabia Petres) and Herod had a quarrel on the account following: Herod the tetrarch had, married the daughter of Aretas, and had lived with her a great while; but when he was once at Rome, he lodged with Herod, who was his brother indeed, but not by the same mother; for this Herod was the son of the high priest Sireoh's daughter. However, he fell in love with Herodias, this last Herod's wife, who was the daughter of Aristobulus their brother, and the sister of Agrippa the Great".
/Martin Hagstrøm, Denmark
Herod, the son of Mariamne II, was called Herod Philip.  So there is no conflict between the Gospel accounts and Josephus.
How does it come that Herod the great (Herod I) named his child by his third wife Mariamne II to Herod Philip II, and then his child by his fifth wife Clepatra of Jerusalem to Herod Philip I?
/Malin Klangeryd, Sweden
I haver just posted the following on the talk page for Herod Philip, the disambiguation page:
I question the whole existence of these three pages (Herod Philip [disambiguation], Herod Philip I and Herod Philip II). Philip the Tetrarch (born in c 26 BCE to Herod the Great and Cleopatra, of Jerusalem), the founder (or re-namer) of Caesarea Philippi, is (was) not known as Herod Philip. I can find no reference outside wikipedia to two Herod Philips. The use of references on these pages is cavalier. 
*The first reference given in the page on Herod Philip I (Kokkinos, Nikkos (1998). The Herodian Dynasty: Origins, Role in Society and Eclipse. Journal for the Study of the Pseudepigrapha Supplement Series. Sheffield: Sheffield Academic Press) refers to the son of Cleopatra and Herod the Great as Philip (born c. 26 BCE). Kokkinos says (p 223) “The stubborn existence of many theologians in referring to Herod III as ‘Herod Philip’ is without any value” (233), and again  on p. 266, “No illusory Herod Philip ever existed”.
*The first external reference given (Philip the Tetrarch entry in historical sourcebook by Mahlon H. Smith) says “Secondary literature, such as Easton's Bible Dictionary, has often referred to him as "Herod Philip" although there is absolutely no evidence in primary sources that he mimicked his half-brother Antipas in claiming his father's name or was addressed as Herod by contemporaries. This is a convenient modern convention to distinguish him from other ancient Hellenized rulers with the same given name”, which casts doubt on the article it is supposed to support.
The pages on Herod Philip might be rephrased to say something like
::See Philip the Tetrarch. The name Herod Philip appears to be a modern convenience. There is no evidence for contemporary uses of this nomenclature. It is an example of the great difficulty in establishing the relationships of various holders of the same name in the same area or family - especially in the Herodian dynasty (see Kokkinos, Nikos, (1955- ) The Herodian dynasty : origins, role in society and eclipse, 518 pp; Sheffield : Sheffield Academic, Journal for the study of the Pseudepigrapha. Supplement series ; 30
The Cambridge Ancient History Bowman, Alan K., Champlin Edward, and Lintott. Andrew (edd) (2001), Cambridge Ancient History, Vol.10, The Augustan Empire, 43 B.C.-A.D. 69, Cambridge, Cambridge University Press Vol.10, says that Philip the Tetrarch, “unlike his brothers, did not use Herod as a dynastic name”, and refers to him throughout as Philip, or Philip the Tetrarch. The predecessor CAH Cambridge Ancient History, (latest reprint 1965), Gen. eds.: J.B. Bury, S.A. Cook, F.E. Adcock, M.P. Charlesworth, N.H. Baynes, Cambridge, Cambridge University Press: Vol.10, The Augustan empire, 44 B.C.-A.D. 70 had already stated that Philip’s half-brothers Archelaus and Antipas had adopted the name of Herod, "presumably" for a dynastic claim from Herod the Great.
In a further example of the difficulty of naming individuals at this timer, particularly in the family of Herod the Great, , Kokkinos goes to some length to point out that Philip the Tetrarch married NOT Salome, but her mother Herodias, who may have been known as Herodias-Salome. The Salome often claimed to be the wife of Philip was the daughter of this Herodias-Salome, born about 1 BCE, the fruit of her marriage to Herod III, and therefore step-daughter as well as niece of Philip the Tetrarch. Herodias-Salome had divorced Herod III, the son of Herod the Great by Mariamme II (therefore the half-brother of Philip); after Philip’s death in 33 CE, she married a third half-brother, Antipas, the son of Herod the Great by Malthace. (Herod the Great’s sister was also called Salome, born c. 50 BCE.) The ‘Salome’ who asked for Jon the Baptist’s head is not named in the Bible: Matthew (14, 6) says “the daughter of Herodias danced before them”, but does not name her; and Mark (6. 22) similarly calls her “the daughter of the said Herodias”. It appears possible, at least, that the cause of Herod’s rage against John is that the latter was preaching not against him, but against his wife - who had divorced his half-brother, and therefore was not a permissible wife for him.
I am submitting this to the talk pages rather than editing the pages fully, as this appears to me, an outsider to the field (minefield?) of nomenclature around the time of Christ, to be contentious ground.  MacAuslan (talk) 13:22, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I think you're right - it is complicated, but it does seem clear from the sources that Herod II was never known as Herod Philip - I am going to move the page to Herod II. --Rbreen (talk) 19:43, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Says Herodias was married to Philip not Herod Beothus.  Other things different in the Slavonic Josephus however are NOT consistent with changes one would make for the purpose of reconciling it with The Gospels.  http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/gno/gjb/gjb-3.htm  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.29.233.157 (talk) 23:28, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Slavonic Josephus 

message: Herod II 2400:AC40:70B:7B14:75FA:429C:F3D0:BD84 (talk) 08:25, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Herod II