Talk:Ristar

message: Sergecross73 continues to change this article back to saying Sonic Team despite it having barely any Sonic Team staff before and after. He stands by this because of some poorly written IGN and Gamestop articles that are not from the actual time (nor the developers nor SEGA who actually says this was not Sonic Team!)
Further proof that this should remain as just developed by Sega are found here, (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sonic_CD#Sonic_Team) in one of Sergecross73's messages that concede the fact but he still polices this wiki to his personal opinion. Is personal opinion and drawing lines that aren't there part of what Wikipedia is about? It took that knucklehead long enough to stop crediting Yuji Naka based on his opinion of what an interview that was unrelated to Ristar meant and despite lack of Yuji Naka in the credits. So we have a wiki that's policed by an admin based on facts they made up. Seems like this guy shouldn't be admin, since this is no longer about facts but some guy who just picks whatever despite multiple debates with multiple people upon this VERY ISSUE.
As follows here: (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sonic_CD#Sonic_Team)
"As someone who took a deep interest in Sega for a number of years, I was never under the impression (and cannot recall knowing anyone that was under the impression) that Chaotix was developed by Sonic Team proper. Then again, my gut feelings aren't always reliable (Serge recently corrected me on the extent of Sonic Team's involvement with Sonic 3D Blast). In any case, I'm more interested in Ristar—The Gaming Historian argues that Sonic Team should not be credited as the developer, citing an Electronic Gaming Monthly interview in which a Sega employee directly states that "No, [Ristar] wasn't designed by the same development team [as the Sonic games]." While it is also undeniable that a number of former or future Sonic Team staff contributed to the project, I think Serge's initial skepticism on that point was probably justified, and that Wikipedia's current sources are likely parroting confused citogenesis.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 06:15, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Please read WP:NPA. This isn't Twitter. No ones going to bother to read your comments if half of the rant is filled with nonsense about "hating facts" and being "pathetic". Now please calm down and focus. I gave you 3 sources that used Sonic Team (Gamespot and IGN specifically being major sources in the industry). I also linked to 2 other reliable sources that explained how Sega has inconsistently used the label retroactively. Please focus your argument around that. Or waste all of our time and call me a baby or a clown or something. Sergecross73 msg me 02:22, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

text: Right off the bat, your argument is wrong. Hardcore Gamer is considered reliable per consensus at WP:VG/S. Sergecross73 msg me 02:34, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

text: Right, so anyways, its considered reliable, so how about addressing what the sources says? Sergecross73 msg me 02:51, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

text: That does not address what the source says. Sergecross73 msg me 03:03, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

text: Edit warring is edit warring. You've been at this for some time based on the page history, from other IPs in the past, including outright disruption such as page blanking, and personal attacks against Serge. When there's a conflict in sourcing like this, you need to reach a consensus first. You already know all this, but I'm restating it anyways. I actually lean in your favor on the topic that the EGM source takes precedence here, but "being right" doesn't excuse edit warring. Disruption of Wikipedia will not be tolerated. -- ferret (talk) 12:44, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

text: If we don't want it in the infobox anymore, then we can always add sourced prose with more context on the exact situation to the development section. Whether we classify it as a variant/form of Sonic Team, or a "misclassification as Sonic Team", it's rather clear the game's background and legacy has ties to it, and we shouldn't do a lazy scrub of every mention of it in the article, as the IP has repeatedly done, which doesn't aid the reader either. Sergecross73 msg me 13:18, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd put Sega in the infobox, and suggest a sentence in development such as "In an interview with EGM, ?who stated? that Ristar was not developed by the same team as Sonic. Recent remasters and collections have accredited Sonic Team however.". Due to the text nature of the archive of EGM, not quite sure who the interview was with. -- ferret (talk) 13:38, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

text: I think this is ideal. Have the lead/infobox just say Sega (which still isn't wrong), but mention Sonic Team's involvement/ties in the development section. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 00:40, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Found a full scan of EGM 65. The interview was with Lisa Best (Marketing assistant) and Terry Tang (communications). It's not clear which made the statement. So: In an interview with EGM, Lisa Best and Terry Tang of Sega's marketing team said Ristar was not developed by the same team as Sonic.(EGM ref) Recent remasters and collections have accredited Sonic Team however.(IGN, etc, refs) -- ferret (talk) 01:02, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm stuck on mobile until Monday, but I'll write something up then if this is still looking like the consensus going here. Sergecross73 msg me 03:33, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

text: Yeah, I actually just noticed that when I made the section below too. The current set up we've recently devised is probably the better way to portray things. Sergecross73 msg me 23:23, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Dev team

message: The IP is blocked 2 weeks for the edit warring and a years long history of disruptive editing at this article and NPAs towards Serge. However, I do think there may be a solid argument here. I'm not going to rehash the essay(s) above, but the interview from the release period says it wasn't the same team as Sonic. More contemporary reviews seem to have been based on re-released and Sonic collections that lumped everything as "Sonic Team". Thoughts? -- ferret (talk) 12:45, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: If we don't want it in the infobox anymore, then we can always add sourced prose with more context on the exact situation to the development section. Whether we classify it as a variant/form of Sonic Team, or a "misclassification as Sonic Team", it's rather clear the game's background and legacy has ties to it, and we shouldn't do a lazy scrub of every mention of it in the article, as the IP has repeatedly done, which doesn't aid the reader either. Sergecross73 msg me 13:18, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd put Sega in the infobox, and suggest a sentence in development such as "In an interview with EGM, ?who stated? that Ristar was not developed by the same team as Sonic. Recent remasters and collections have accredited Sonic Team however.". Due to the text nature of the archive of EGM, not quite sure who the interview was with. -- ferret (talk) 13:38, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

text: I think this is ideal. Have the lead/infobox just say Sega (which still isn't wrong), but mention Sonic Team's involvement/ties in the development section. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 00:40, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Found a full scan of EGM 65. The interview was with Lisa Best (Marketing assistant) and Terry Tang (communications). It's not clear which made the statement. So: In an interview with EGM, Lisa Best and Terry Tang of Sega's marketing team said Ristar was not developed by the same team as Sonic.(EGM ref) Recent remasters and collections have accredited Sonic Team however.(IGN, etc, refs) -- ferret (talk) 01:02, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm stuck on mobile until Monday, but I'll write something up then if this is still looking like the consensus going here. Sergecross73 msg me 03:33, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

text: Yeah, I actually just noticed that when I made the section below too. The current set up we've recently devised is probably the better way to portray things. Sergecross73 msg me 23:23, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Arbitrary break

message: * https://toucharcade.com/community/threads/ristar-by-sega.310166/ - this is Sega's app store description for the 2017 re-release of the game, and mentions that the game was once had the Dexstar working title. Worth mentioning since I think this is the first time Sega's actually officially acknowledged this. Will add to article. Sergecross73 msg me 17:22, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dexstar 

message: I don't wish to dig up all those arguments again - I'm okay with keeping things as is - but I stumbled upon this the other day, and wanted to share it, for future consideration.
The other day, bored, I booted up the PSP version of Sega Genesis Collection on my Vita. I noticed there's a "Museum" option you can chose, where you can read up on the game. I checked the entry for Ristar, which, at the end, said this:
:"If Ristar feels like a Sonic the Hedgehog game, there's a reason. It was developed by Sonic Team, the creators of the Sonic titles".
So, perhaps for the first time, we have a Sega-published game directly calling it a Sonic Team developed game.
I can try to take a picture and uploading it if anyone doubts me, though I don't do that much so it could be a struggle. Perhaps some other Sega super-fans can confirm if they own the game, or one of its variants, too. Sergecross73 msg me 00:13, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Why should we believe you, you despicable liar? LOL just kidding. I'm still on the fence about labelling this a Sonic Team production, as Sonic Team as an entity technically still didn't exist at the time... but at least we know that Sega considers it one. JOEBRO64 00:21, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Haha, yeah, you know me. Decided I would win this argument 1 year later by completely fabricating a source. No, like I said, I don’t wish to change anything really (unless we added a comment in the prose somehow) I just wanted to make a note on the talk page in case the arguments erupt again down the line. I kinda wondered if editors like yourself would have the game, or similar ones, to verify it as well. No biggie if you don’t, or don’t want to check, either though. Sergecross73 msg me 01:16, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

text: I mean, Sega still published Genesis Collection, so it's not like it's unauthorized commentary. It's a pretty far fetched theory to think Sega would publish a game and not review the in-game trivia. Not that it matters, this wasn't used to cite any additions in the article, now, or 2 years ago when I wrote the above comment. Sergecross73 msg me 17:00, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sonic Team (again) 

message: * https://www.sega-16.com/2004/09/forgotten-franchises-vectorman/ A note to implement this at some point. It mentions Ristar being a casualty of Sega of Japan's lack of faith in the Genesis in leading up to the 32bit era, something that now strikes me as rather likely considering I've read similar sentiments in my research for cancelled Genesis/32X/Saturn games. Sergecross73 msg me 19:11, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Release/promotion source