Talk:Arya

message: This page looks like its totally a Hindu page, with a hindu template..why is there no Zoroastrian template? POV of contributers? --Kash 00:18, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Arya is also a Persian term meaning noble (as well as a common first name). SouthernComfort 11:36, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There was no Zoroastrian template because nobody created one. I now did Template:Zoroastrianism.  I don't think it is pov of the contributors, just that more Zoroastrian editors are needed on wiki. --Machaon 11:16, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Great job with the Zoroastrian template! Keep it up!! deeptrivia (talk) 06:31, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lack of Zoroastrian info 

message: According to Dr. Ambedkar's book Who were the Shudras, Shudras are to be considered as a part of the traditional fold. Can someone confirm this and make the changes to the article?
:Well unlike the "untouchables" they are casted, but not "twice born". Paul B 13:11, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aren't Shudras considered to be a part of the Arya fold? 

message: The word 'Earl' which can also be written as Yarl and means 'nobleman' also come from the root Arya.
Interesting the people that spoke this word also have surnames identical to those in Indo-aryan India. The surname Gill in India means stream of water and the surname of the same word in Norse also means the same.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.34.227.166 (talk) 19:37, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Arya is also in Norse language of Northern Europe 

message: Etymology of honorific -ji as evolving from ārya is mentioned ("In Pāli and other Prakrits, ārya developed various forms such as ariya, ayya, ajja, and aje. The last of these gave rise to the honorific term -ji, which is used following a proper name, for example in Gandhiji".) What are supporting arguments? Bibliographical information is needed. Otherwise the statement hangs as it were in void Artur Karp 09:10, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ETYMOLOGY OF HONORIFIC -JI 

message: I've studied the etymology and came to conclusion that word "arya" have original meaning of "man", "human", not "royal" or "noble". Here's list of words in different languages with ar root, all of them have meaning that is related to "man", "human", "masculine" & etc. This word is neither of indo-european, turkic, semitic or dene-caucasian origin. It has same basis in most of human languages, the same way as words for parents (pa, ta, ba, ma). There are too many languages and I decided to show only few notable groups as example.
Semitic (Afro-Asiatic): proto-form ba'l [baʔl]; Akkadian beelu (see: Baal); Biblical Aramaic bǝʕeel, means "master", "owner", "husband", "man", "male citizen". b is relative to m, p, w, ŋ phonemes, and l is relative to r, d, z, s. The written (consonant-only) form is bl & bʔl, where ʔ is later assimilated and removed.
Berber (Afro-Asiatic): proto-form barar; Ayr abarar, Tahaggart aburir, means "son", "male child". Here r is related to l thus making this word's root similar to semitic. Figig idu & Zenaga ida means "men", "people", "family". And here d is directly related to l, r while b is omitted or transformed into j thus making Senhadja word judæn, iudæn, instead of budæn. Consonant written form is brr, bll, jd
Old Indian (IE): mɑrja\marja, means "man", "young man"; nɑra means "man", "person". Other similar IE words: Albanian ɲer (man), Armenian air, ajir (man), Welsh nerθ (man), Middle Persian meerak (man), English "male". Similar non-IE words: Mari, Komi & Udmurt marij, mari (man), Moksha lɨmaɲ (man) & vajme (person), Chechen maira (man, husband), Manchu nanə, nalma, Jurchen neʀma, Khmer kəmlaoh (young man).
Turkic (Nostratic\Altaic\disputed): proto-form ēr; variations are ar, er, jer, or; Here is clear relationship with iranian ir which is root of words Iran & Iron (south ossetians), where -an, -on are endings, similar in fashion to greek -os. Another notable words for "man" is gaellic eire & basque ar that show similarities with words mentioned above.
Here is the brief explanation of this word's variation in human tongue - bal, bar, mar, par, war, 'ar, ar, er, ŋar, ɴar, nar, nal, ŋar, ɴar, mer, mez, meʒ, moc, moz, moʒ, moj, mud, muʒ, mur, bur, buj, bug, buɣ, buχ, buq, box, bog, bɨk, buz, bur, bul, vol, wol, pol, bal, mal, mel, man, mæn, mən, men, mann' and so on.
This word's meaning evolved into "royal", "owner", "rich", "noble" but it's root is probably Borean (proto-human). Not to mention the fact that title "aryan" is not ethno-linguistic or anthropological indication but a kind of royal title of "owner", "king" that was given by indians of Vedic times to Persians or other people but Vedas say nothing about their ethnicity, except that they came from West or North-West of Hindus river. And thus name aryan should not be used in any ethnical or racial form.
Regards, Iliassh (talk) 05:37, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Borean & Nostratic etymologies of "Aryan" 

message: ok, I have to admit that I misstated the case in earlier revisions. 
The dictionaries accessible to me just now clearly favour derivation of arya from ari-, in turn related to Latin alius. They still explicitly mention the earlier hypotheses connecting the term to the *ar of ars or rta, but unambiguously label them as obsolete. So far so good. I still have two points that need clarification.
*what is this alleged Indo-Iranian root ar "to allot"? It is apparently found in aši, which was apparently "confused" with aša (again the ar of ars) even within Old Iranian, but where are the   "multitude of other words"? Is this root Iranian only? If so, perhaps we should state as much. Also, what is its etymology? Is it compatible with the alius equation, or is the "to allot" etymology mutually exclusive with the alius one?
*the "populistic misrepresentation" related to the "noble" meaning. Let's say we have established that the term developed as an endonym within Indo-Iranian, out of a modest ali- "other, foreign". That is, we reject all equations with Germanic, Celtic or Greek terms of nobility. It is even so a rather tall claim to say that the Indic meaning of "noble" has "no parallel in an Iranian context" in view of the Behistun inscription being full of "I am arya, therefore I am king". Thus, even if we agree that this is a question of Indo-Iranian exclusively, the parallel of the meaning of "noble" in Indic and Iranian is rather striking. That the Sanskrit meaning is post-Vedic is a daring claim to say the least. According to Monier-Williams, the noun árya has the meaning of "master, lord" in VS. The noun ārya is glossed as "a respectable or honourable or faithful man" in its Vedic meaning.  It is true that the adjective ārya with a meaning of "honourable, respectable, noble" is attested post-Vedic (Epics) only, and I take it that the "5th century BCE" claim reflects this. Thus, it is true that Monier-Williams
gives "respectable, honourable" for the meaning of the Vedic noun, while he gives "respectable, honourable, noble" for the meaning of the post-Vedic adjective, but building any sort of argument on this strikes me as rather far-fetched. 
--dab (𒁳) 14:32, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: etymology, "noble"

message: Aryan, Arya and Ayyanar
The word Arya confused many scholars. It might just be a compound word in Telugu [a Dravidian language] that is formed from Ari + Aiya = Arya which in Tamil and Malayalam [Dravidian languages] becomes Aryan. Ari means the outer limit or boundary and Aiya is a suffix to names. Arya thus means the man who guards the boundary of a village.
DMR Sekhar
http://knol.google.com/k/dmr-sekhar/aryan-and-arya/3ecxygf1lxcn2/9#
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayyanar
:this falls under WP:NOR. You did right in pubishing this at google knol, not on Wikipedia. --dab (𒁳) 20:20, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Confusion worst confounded

message: he indian language has many burrowed words, meaning its not the origin of the aryan race. the hungarian area, steppe theory is associated with this. Iranian language does not have many burrowed words, designating Iran as the place most likely Aryans are from.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.80.105.24 (talk) 06:03, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Indian Lang.

message: There were a lots of edits by ip's (here and finally the diff with last "good edit" is this). I want to know what is going on? 1. this edit summary shows the reason for some of the edits. 2. this one is removal of content. 3. this is OR... So for the moment I make a deep revert to a good version. IP's please discuss your concern in this talk page before you remove materials or add your original research. Xashaiar (talk) 16:40, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: What is going on?=

message: Indians running around claiming to be Aryans even though the 'Aryans' from the Iranian plateau invaded during Harrapan civilization. Why does this article repeatedly place Indian before Iranian? Nothing is posted concerning Zoroastrian Aryan reliefs by Darius and Xerxes. Iranians invaded the Indian subcontinent, not the other way around. Also concerning the following part with regards to 'oldest recorded forms' , it is known that 'The earliest epigraphically-attested reference to the word ariya occurs in the 6th century BCE Behistun inscription, which describes itself to have been composed "in ariya [language or script]" (¶ 70). As is also the case for all other Old Iranian language usage, the ariya of the inscription does not signify anything but "Iranian".  
In its oldest recorded forms, Indo-Iranian ārya is a national name, i.e. the name of the ethnic group of Indians and Iranians themselves. More precisely, it is a self-referential adjective that – from the point of view of the Indians and Iranians themselves – effectively means "pertaining to ourselves." It stands in relationship to the antonymic anārya- (Skt. anā́rya-, Av. anairiia-), which effectively refers to "pertaining to the Other". From the external point of view – i.e. of comparative philology – this most ancient usage of ārya indicates "pertaining to speakers of Indian/Iranian language"; with the Vedic Sanskrit ā́rya-, used as an autonym of the Rigvedic tribes, and Iranian arya- (with a short-a; Old Persian ariya, Avestan airiia) used as an autonym of the Iranian peoples.
 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ditc (talk • contribs) 09:03, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Indianification

message: The use of Arya in Indian and Sanskrit has been addressed well in this article. Books and sources such as Vedic Sanskrit , Sanskrit Epics, Ramayana,Mahabharata,  Religious use of the Sanskrit and Pali term show extended use of the word and context it has been used in Indian languages. 
In contrast there is no single reference to any Iranian/Persian source for the original use of this name "Arya" in Iranian languages.  The inclusion of Iranian/Persian appears to be more of a POV rather than fact.   Mehrdad (talk) 19:41, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  There is no reference to any Iranian/Persian source for the original use of this name "Arya"!!! 

message: Aryan is an Arabianic (aka semitic) word which means "companion".
Please read Szemerenyi 1977.
In Ugaritian Arabic ari (plural aiyan) means companion and this term became ethonym for the Aryans who are connected with the Halaf culture (According to Gamkrelidze&Ivanov) and thus were northern neighbors of Arabs.
So please correct this article.
Humanbyrace (talk) 19:26, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aryan is an Arabianic (aka semitic) word which means "companion". 

message: Unlike the various terms connected with the Aryan arya- in Old Indian, the Old Iranian term has solely an ethnic meaningG. Gnoli,“Iranic Identity as a Historical Problem: the Beginnings of a National Awareness under the Achaemenians,” in The East and the Meaning of Histoy. International Conference (23-27 November 1992), Roma, 1994, pp. 147-67. .  
The name Iran, Iranian is itself equivalent to Arya/Aryan, where Iran means “land of the Arya”G. Gnoli, "IRANIAN IDENTITY ii. PRE-ISLAMIC PERIOD" in Encyclopedia Iranica.  Online accessed in 2010 at  The "Aryan" Language, Gherardo Gnoli, Instituto Italiano per l'Africa e l'Oriente, Roma, 2002. D.N. Mackenzie, "ĒRĀN, ĒRĀNŠAHR" in Encyclopedia Iranica. Accessed here in 2010: Dalby, Andrew (2004), Dictionary of Languages, Bloomsbury, G.Gnoli, “ĒR, ĒR MAZDĒSN” in Encyclopedia Iranica. .  The name has been in usage since Sassanid times D.N. Mackenzie, "ĒRĀN, ĒRĀNŠAHR" in Encyclopedia Iranica. Accessed here in 2010: Dalby, Andrew (2004), Dictionary of Languages, Bloomsbury, .  
In the Avesta clearly uses airya as an ethnic name (Vd. 1; Yt. 13.143-44, etc.), where it appears in expressions such as airyāfi; daiŋˊhāvō “Iranian lands, peoples,” airyō.šayanəm “land inhabited by Iranians,” and airyanəm vaējō vaŋhuyāfi; dāityayāfi; “Iranian stretch of the good Dāityā,” the river Oxus, the modern Āmū DaryāG. Gnoli, "IRANIAN IDENTITY ii. PRE-ISLAMIC PERIOD" in Encyclopedia Iranica.  Online accessed in 2010 at . There can be no doubt about the ethnic value of Old Iran. arya (Benveniste, 1969, I, pp. 369 f.; Szemerényi; Kellens)G. Gnoli, "IRANIAN IDENTITY ii. PRE-ISLAMIC PERIOD" in Encyclopedia Iranica.  Online accessed in 2010 at . 
Old Persian sources also use this term for Iranians. Old Persian which is a testament to the antiquity of the Persian language and which is related to most of the languages/dialects spoken in Iran including modern Persian, Kurdish, Gilaki and Baluchi makes it clear that Iranians referred to themselves as Arya.   The term "Ariya" appears in the royal inscriptions in three different context: As the name of the language of the Old Persian version of the inscription of Darius the Great in Behistun; as the ethnic background of Darius in inscriptions at Naqsh-e-Rostam and Susa (Dna, Dse) and Xerxes in the inscription from Persepolis (Xph) and as the definition of the God of Arya people, Ahuramazda, in the Elamite version of the Behistun inscription. For example in the Dna and Dse Darius and Xerxes describe themselves as “An Achaemenian, A Persian son of a Persian and an Aryan, of Aryan stock”. R.G. Kent. Old Persian. Grammer, texts, lexicon. 2nd ed., New Haven, Conn..  Although Darius the Great called his language the Aryan languageR.G. Kent. Old Persian. Grammer, texts, lexicon. 2nd ed., New Haven, Conn., modern scholars refer to it as Old Persian.
The Old Persian and Avestan evidence is confirmed by the Greek sources”G. Gnoli, "IRANIAN IDENTITY ii. PRE-ISLAMIC PERIOD" in Encyclopedia Iranica.  Online accessed in 2010 at . Herodotus in his Histories remarks about the Iranian Medes that: “These Medes were called anciently by all people Arians; “ (7.62) G. Gnoli, "IRANIAN IDENTITY ii. PRE-ISLAMIC PERIOD" in Encyclopedia Iranica.  Online accessed in 2010 at .  In Armenian sources, the Parthians, Medes and Persians are collectively referred to as Aryans R.W. Thomson. History of Armenians by Moses Khorenat’si. Harvard University Press, 1978. Pg 118, pg 166. Eudemus of Rhodes apud Damascius (Dubitationes et solutiones in Platonis Parmenidem 125 bis) refers to “the Magi and all those of Iranian (áreion) lineage”; Diodorus Siculus (1.94.2) considers Zoroaster (Zathraustēs) as one of the ArianoiG. Gnoli, "IRANIAN IDENTITY ii. PRE-ISLAMIC PERIOD" in Encyclopedia Iranica.  Online accessed in 2010 at .. 
Strabo, in his "Geography", mentions the unity of Medes, Persians, Bactrians and Sogdians The "Aryan" Language, Gherardo Gnoli, Instituto Italiano per l'Africa e l'Oriente, Roma, 2002.:
The trilingual inscription erected by Shapur's command gives us a more clear description. The languages used are Parthian, Middle Persian and Greek. In Greek the inscription says: “ego ... tou Arianon ethnous despotes eimi” which translates to “I am the king of the Aryans”. In the Middle Persian Shapour says: “I am the Lord of the EranShahr” and in Parthian he says: “I am the Lord of AryanShahr”. MacKenzie D.N. Corpus inscriptionum Iranicarum Part. 2., inscription of the Seleucid and Parthian periods of Eastern Iran and Central Asia. Vol. 2. Parthian, London, P. Lund, Humphries 1976-2001 D.N. Mackenzie, "ĒRĀN, ĒRĀNŠAHR" in Encyclopedia Iranica. Accessed here in 2010: . 
The Bactrian language (an Middle Iranian language) inscription of Kanishka the founder of the Kushan empire at Rabatak, which was discovered in 1993 in an unexcavated site in the Afghanistan province of Baghlan clearly refers to this Eastern Iranian language as AryaN. Sims-Williams, "Further notes on the Bactrian inscription of Rabatak, with the Appendix on the name of Kujula Kadphises and VimTatku in Chinese".  Proceedings of the Third European Conference of Iranian Studies (Cambridge, September 1995).  Part 1: Old and Middle Iranian<Studies, N. Sims-Williams, ed. Wiesbaden, pp 79-92The "Aryan" Language, Gherardo Gnoli, Instituto Italiano per l'Africa e l'Oriente, Roma, 2002
In the post-Islamic era one can still see a clear usage of the term Aryan (Iran) in the work of the 10th century historian Hamzeh Esfahani. In his famous book “the history of Prophets and Kings”  writes: “Aryan which is also called Pars is in the middle of these countries and these six countries surround it because the South East is in the hands China, the North of the Turks, the middle South is India, the middle North is Rome, and the South West and the North West is the Sudan and Berber lands” Hamza Isfahani, Tarikh Payaambaraan o Shaahaan, translated by Jaf'ar Shu'ar,Tehran: Intishaaraat Amir Kabir, 1988.
: This article is about sanskrit arya. A separate wiki page should be opened for iranian airya/aryi(i)a because the definition is slightely different. Thanks.Rajkris (talk) 21:28, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  It doesn't say it is about Sanskrit Arya.. but what do you suggest?  There are encyclopedic articles with Arya and cover both definitions (see H.W. Bailey).  We can seperate sections of the article in (Iranian usage) and (Indian usage).  It is already done that...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.196.206.178 (talk) 21:29, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Ok you can keep that for the moment but not as first position because arya has more to do with sanskrit. I will add soon my reason for why should have separate pages for sanskrit arya and iranian airya.Rajkris (talk) 21:38, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Well I do not want all that information to be deleted.  You can put a split merger.  I agree in Iranian languages, the term Arya has solely an ethno-linguistic value whereas in Sanskrit it covers variety of definitions.  However this article states that it covers both meanings.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.196.206.178 (talk) 21:41, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  For the moment we can keep like that (till i add my reasons) but putting iranian version, definition in first position is not right, appropriate i think.Rajkris (talk) 21:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  We can discuss about that. I will add my detailed arguments, reasons soon. Thanks.Rajkris (talk) 21:55, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

text: Xashaiar, you have already been warned by fullstop who has dismissed your arguments. You have already been banned indefinitely for your political POV. You have managed to come back; but just be careful, this is my kind advise... I will soon add my arguments, be patient.Rajkris (talk) 23:40, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: You tried the same sometime ago. You were wrong and finally accepted (, , , ..). Which argument of that editor are you referring to? This article states clearly "In contrast to Indian usage, in which several secondary meanings evolved, the meaning of ar- as a self-identifier is preserved in Iranian usage". So what are you talking about? Xashaiar (talk) 11:08, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree with the 2 first but I do not accept at all the third one (!). I will tell you why. Thanks.Rajkris (talk) 21:59, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Arya in Iranian languages

message: looking at the history of the article and this talkpage over the years, it is clear that it is going nowhere. It is just a troll magnet and a place for people to dump random comments. The article was originally split off Aryan to keep the main article from being burdened with this, but it turns out that we just split one troll magnet into two troll magnets, without achieving any clean division of scope. This appears to be basically just a  of the "etymology" section at Aryan. Consequently, it should be merged back. --dab (𒁳) 13:52, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: merge back

message: : 'ārya' definition
::1. Arayan race; civilized person; honorable person; honest person
::2. civilized; good; righteous; prosperous; honorable; developed 
: ārya dharma (pronounced ah ra ya thom) civilization.
:Antonym  (tha min) 
::1. proper noun or adjective, Tamil
::2. common adjective, formal usage, loanword from Pali vicious; dangerous; savage; ruthless; depraved copy-and-paste ทมิฬ
--Pawyilee (talk) 13:46, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thai language 'ārya' and  'ārya dharma' 

message: -> percentage of Migration
-> Percentage of similar sounding words in so called Indian Dravidian,Indian Aryan language and outside India Aryan language
-> Saraswathi River told as per its size in the rigvedas when it flowing as big river and as it grew smaller and match it with dates and check where it was written and by whom
-> which Indian kings were ruling in Iran during Mahabharath time (Main Mahabharath kings were in India) and check how main kings were in India if origin was Iran just a few thousand miles away
-> DNA percentage similarities Indian Dravidians and Indian Aryans and Aryans outside India. 68.56.84.68 (talk) 03:37, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Layman Suggestion Aryan migration to India theory