Talk:Botch (professional wrestling)

message: Do we need this article? I know there's a list of "memorable" botches, but that's POV. The word botch has the exact same meaning in everyday context as it does in professional wrestling and besides, Wikipedia is not a dictionary. I'll redirect it to the article on professional wrestling slang. --Jtalledo (talk) 05:09, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You completely miss the point - you are correct, it is not a dictionary - but the article explains how "botch" fits into the context of wrestling, not a general definition of botch. My feeling is that having some examples of wrestling botches is helpful, and enough to justify have an explanatory article about what happens and that a wrestling botch can be fatal. Other than maybe a "botched" surgery, most botches in the general sense are not life-or-death. --CokeBear 10:21, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Botch 

message: *This is a fun page but in the interests of keeping it encyclopedic, the list should really only contain memorable or significant botches. Just because you saw Cena miss a move on Raw the other day, doesn't necessarily make it a list-worthy botch. Wrestlers botch all the time, if it causes injury or major embarrassment then consider adding it to the list. I also encourage others to prune the list as aggressively as they see fit, nothing here is verified so Jimbo's "aggressive removal of unverified information" edict should override any objections. Deizio talk 13:47, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed, this is turning into a near-weekly update page just because slight errors are almost guaranteed to happen every show. Stuff like the Gayda/Stratus bulldog and the Owen Hart piledriver are famous examples, but look at the stuff from Summerslam '06 that is listed...no one even remembers that now, and it's only a few weeks later. KaneRobot 22:51, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Botches 

message: Why is the list of botches shorter!?!? Torax2 04:21, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  !?!?!?!? 

message: I deleted the list of botches. First off, there's no established criteria for what a "notable" botch is so it might be POV. Second, the list is largely uncited and unverified. Third, Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. Also, according Wikipedia:Embedded lists, lists make Wikipedia worse, not better. --Jtalledo (talk) 20:49, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Instead of the list, an example of a single botch illustrating a certain point like the one with D'Lo Brown talking about botches that could cause injury would be a good idea, if it's cited. --Jtalledo (talk) 20:51, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deleted list of botches 

message: I wrote the paragraph on Sean Waltman's botch victory over Scott Hall, and someone is asking for citation. Can someone help me? I know this happened, because 1) I saw it live, and 2) The fact that it was not planned was broadcast all over the news at that time. I really have no other "citation" besides that, but I figured that was enough.  Can anyone help me?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.184.236.13 (talk) 17:08, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Help Citing it 

message: There Should be a list of Many BotchesJoe ferst (talk) 02:47, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: List

message: This section reads like it is written by a fanboy mark. It is plainly obvious to anyone watching the video of the match that there entire match was worked, including Foley getting off the stretcher and even the falling roof panel. Unless you honestly believe The Undertaker chased out everyone who was giving him 'medical attention' to continue. Had that been legit, the match would have stopped right there. The fact that The Undertaker continues afterwards is the proof it was worked. Are there any legitimate outside references that prove this was legit? The 'Hell in a Cell' article on wiki also claims this to be 'real' without any references either.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.173.132.226 (talk) 07:26, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: He didn't land on the announce table the way he was intended to land, so the impact was much worse than intended. If you watch the video, he barely hits the table and lands more on the edge. From what it looks like, they were just going to call the match there since it still had the desired finish of Undertaker as the winner, but Foley changed his mind and continued it anyway. Also, his tooth and jaw were clearly unscripted, so even if the roof panel was supposed to happen, knocking a tooth out wasn't.174.125.118.62 (talk) 10:15, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hell in a Cell 'botch' 

message: Check it out:
http://www.prowrestlingbotchesandfails.wikia.com
It's like a wikipedia of botches. If you can please help me and add stuff to it. I created it.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.219.87.128 (talk) 12:48, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: 1) A link to a blog promoting a YouTube channel.  2) It calls itself "Pro Wrestling" Botches and Fails, though the content is almostly entirely WWE-centered.  Where's Jim Cornette selling Robert Gibson's dropkick that clearly didn't make any contact?  Just asking if there's any objection to deleting this section as irrelevant to the scope of the talk page.RadioKAOS (talk) 15:16, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

text: Hey, now that I think of it, take that list above.RadioKAOS (talk) 15:18, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Pro Wrestling Botches And Fails

message: There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Blading (professional wrestling) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RMCD bot 14:14, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Move discussion in progress

message: I feel as though the Botchamania (Internet collaboration of infamous botches) series would be of benefit being mentioned on this page. It has been mentioned on quite a few different articles; and whilst probably not noteworthy in of itself a full article; this would be the most logical place for a mention of Botchamania. It would also help explain why the word 'botch' has become more mainstream. 
I understand there may be complications regarding Botchamania being a highly pirated/copywright infringing show; however, the website itself (including blog posts, event reviews and such) do not have the same issue.
Botches in of themselves are very POV; except on those occasions where those involve refer to the incedent as a botch; or clear injuries are sustained which could never be argued was the 'goal' of the move/promo/spot. I would say most workers would agree that most if not all matches have 'botches' that are covered up; as it's impossible to be completely infaluable. 
There are also no mention of referee botches. There have been many instances of referees botching entire matches, or finishes; with DQ finishes to planned pinfall matches, pinfalls with too many counts, or not counting the fall on clear finishes where the wrestler does not kick out (Think No Way Out 2001 with Earl Hepner).
Lee Vilenski (talk) 09:10, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Botchamania / Botch discussion