Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football

message: As part of my series on developing redlink lists for likely notable football players (see 1 2 3 4 5 6), I wondered how many selections to the College Football All-America Team are missing articles. It seems only 1889-1895, 2008, 2012, 2016, 2020 are complete. In case anyone wants to work on any, here's what I've got, based on each All-America article (will periodically update over the next few days). Note that I'm only including first-team selections as those are most likely to be notable; I'm also bolding any who were mutltiple-year first-team choices, and italicizing those who were first-team choices by multiple selectors:
* 1896:
** Edward Crowdis - Princeton - G
** Shaw - Harvard - G
* 1897:
** John Babcock Moulton - Harvard - E
** George Winthrop Bouve - Harvard - G
** George Cadwalader - Yale - C
** George Young - Cornell - QB
** Powell Wheeler - Princeton - FB
* 1898:
** N. T. Folwell - Penn - E
** Francis Douglas Cochrane - Harvard - E
** Leicester Warren - Harvard - HB
* 1899:
** H. Wheeler - Princeton - FB
** Edward G. Bray - Lafayette - HB
* 1900:
** Sherman L. Coy - Yale - E
** James Lawrence - Harvard - T
* 1901:
** Charles Sprague Sargent - Harvard - C
** Marshall S. Reynolds - Penn - HB
* 1902:
** Harold Metcalf - Yale - HB
** Morgan H. Bowman - Yale - FB
* 1903:
** Alfred Brewster - Cornell - QB
** Harold Metcalf - Yale - HB
* 1904:
** Chester T. Neal - Yale - E
** Thomas W. Hammond - Army - E
** James Bush - Wisconsin - E
** Short - Princeton - G
** Walton W. Thorp - Minnesota - G
** Clint Roraback - Yale - C
** John M. Haselwood - Illinois - C
** Lydig Hoyt - Yale - HB
** Marshall Reynolds - Penn - HB
** W. C. Leavenworth - Yale - HB
** Walter L. Foulke - Princeton - HB
* 1905:
** F. Hobson - Penn - G
** David Main - Dartmouth - HB
** A. Rex Flinn - Yale - FB
* 1906:
** Bartol Parker - Harvard - C
* 1907:
** Charles H. Watson - Cornell - E
** Edwin J. Donnelly - Trinity - T
** W. J. Phillips - Princeton - C
** Edward L. McCallie - Cornell - HB
** John Glaze - Dartmouth - HB
* 1908:
** Claude Fisher - Syracuse - E
** George Kennedy - Dartmouth - E
** Gilbert Goodwin Browne - Harvard - E
** Rudolph Siegling - Princeton - T
** Samuel Hoar - Harvard - G
** Orlo L. Waugh - Syracuse - G
** Edward Rich - Dartmouth - G
** Ernest Frederocl Ver Wiebe - Harvard - HB
* 1909:
** Lawrence Dunlap Smith - Harvard - E
* 1910:
** Lawrence Dunlap Smith - Harvard - E
** Richard Plimpton Lewis - Harvard - E
** Edward J. Daly - Dartmouth - E
** Springer H. Brooks - Yale - E
** Tom Piollet - Penn State - E
** James W. "Jim" Scully - Yale - T
** Lothrop "Ted" Withington - Harvard - T
** Ralph W. "Bud" Sherwin - Dartmouth - T
** Homer Dutter - Illinois - T
** Rudy Probst - Syracuse - T
** Joseph L. Wier - West Point - G
** T. S. Wilson - Princeton - G
** Glenn D. Butzer - Illinois - G
** Effingham Morris - Yale - C
** Ralph Galvin - Pittsburgh - C
** John Twist - Illinois - C
** Harry Hartman - Syracuse - C
** Forsman - Lafayette - C
** James Scott - Penn - QB
** Schef - Illinois - QB
** V. Ballou - Princeton - QB
** James Dean - Wisconsin - QB
** G. H. Fletcher - Purdue - QB
** Fred "Tex" Ramsdell - Penn - HB
** John Rosenwald - Minnesota - HB
** William Crawley - Chicago - HB
** Reuben Johnson - Minnesota HB
* 1911:
** Lawrence Dunlap Smith - Harvard - E
** Edward J. Daly - Dartmouth - E
** A. Harry Kallett - Syracuse - E
** Chauncey Oliver - Illinois - E
** Sampson Burd - Carlisle - E
** Jim Scully - Yale - T
** Leonard Frank - Minnesota - T
** William Edward Munk - Cornell - T
** Sylvester V. Shonka - Nebraska - T
** Greig - Swarthmore - T
** Rudy Probst - Syracuse - T
** Charles J. Robinson - Minnesota - G
** Ray Wakeman - Navy - G
** George Howe - Navy - G
** Horace Scruby - Chicago - G
** Pomeroy T. Francis - Yale - G
** Willis "Fat" O'Brien - Iowa - C
** John "Keckie" Moll - Wisconsin - QB
** Preston Doane Fogg - Syracuse - QB
** Reuben Martin Rosenwald - Minnesota - HB
** Walter Camp Jr. - Yale - HB (yes, the son of that Walter Camp)
** Clark Sauer - Chicago - HB
** Jesse Philbin - Yale - FB
** Stancil "Possum" Powell - Carlisle - FB
** Wallace De Witt - Princeton - FB
* 1912:
** K. P. Gilchrist - Navy - E
** Francis Joseph O'Brien - Harvard - E
** Phillips - Princeton - T
** Rip Shenk - Princeton - G
** Ray L. Bennett - Dartmouth - G
** Carroll T. Cooney - Yale - G
** George T. Howe - Navy - G
** Gerard Timothy Driscoll - Harvard - G
** Howard L. Benson - Lafayette - C
** Henry Burchell Gardner - Harvard - QB
** Wallace "Butch" De Witt - Princeton - HB
* 1913:
** W. H. Fritz - Cornell - E
** Benjamin F. Avery - Yale - E
** Francis Joseph O'Brien - Harvard - E
** John S. Pendleton - Yale - G
** Jimmie Munns - Cornell - G
** William Marting - Yale - C
** Pete Garlow - Carlisle - C
** Walter Simpson - Penn - C
** Paul Russell - Chicago - QB
* 1914:
** Red Brann - Yale - E
** Reginald Bovill - Washington & Jefferson - E
** Edwin Stavrum - Wisconsin - E
** Pete Maxfield - Lafayette - T
** Will Burton - Kansas - T
** Wilbur Shenk - Princeton - G
** Harry Routh - Purdue - G
** Boles Rosenthal - Minnesota - C
** Willard Cool - Cornell - C
** Alexander D. Wilson - Yale - QB
** Malcolm Justin Logan - Harvard - QB
** William H. Tow - Amherst - QB
** Paul Russell - Chicago - QB
** Sammy Gross - Iowa - QB
** Wilbur Hightower - Northwestern - QB
** Louis E. Pickerel - Ohio State - QB
** Andrew Toolan - Williams - HB
** Dick Rutherford - Nebraska - HB
** Marcus Wilkinson - Syracuse - HB
** Carroll Knowles - Yale - HB
** Moore - Princeton - HB
** Gray - Chicago - HB
** Carl Philippi - Cornell - FB
** Campbell "Honus" Graf - Ohio State - FB
* 1915:
** Jack "Red" Lamberton - Princeton - E
** Ernest William Soucy - Harvard - E
** Maurice M. Witherspoon - Washington & Jefferson - T
** Nelson "Pie" Way - Yale - T
** Dave Tibbott - Princeton - HB
** Red Wilkinson - Syracuse - HB
** Anderson - Colgate - HB
** Edward H. Driggs - Princeton - FB
* 1916:
** Richard Harte - Harvard - E
** Charles Highley - Princeton - E
** William Lippard McLean - Princeton - T
** DeVitalis - Brown - T
** Louis Seagrave - Washington - T
** Walter Herber Wheeler - Harvard - T
** Lawrence Fox - Yale - G
** Charles Henning - Penn - G
** Christopher Schlachter - Syracuse - G
** Alfred Gennert - Princeton - C
** Claire Long - Minnesota - HB
BeanieFan11 (talk) 17:27, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  All-Americans: missing articles 

message: Team articles from 1940 Oregon Ducks football team to 1977 Oregon Ducks football team have just been changed from "Webfoots" to "Ducks" by @User:Carrite.
I'm not sure what the correct team name is for each year, but would like to see some discussion and sources on the move.
PK-WIKI (talk) 17:53, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Neutrally as a point of reference; the program's media guide from 1976 uses only "Ducks" when referring to the team (here, see for example the Outlook article on page 3). Dmoore5556 (talk) 22:06, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

text: The 1963 NCAA records book lists them as the Ducks. PK-WIKI (talk) 01:36, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oregon Webfoots vs. Oregon Ducks 

message: I believe we are at a point where the unified content found at 1955 college football season should be extended through at least 1961 college football season, and the first season to have separate University Division and College Division articles should be either 1962 or 1963.  Comments?
Note that NAIA season articles begin with 1956 NAIA football season, so whether that content should be included in the above, or left to stand on their own, also merits some consideration. I have not looked into NAIA football history, so I don't know to what degree the unsourced statement "The 1956 NAIA football season was the first season of college football sponsored by the National Association of Intercollegiate Athletics." is factually accurate.
Lastly, we should also consider whether to make changes directly (WP:BOLD), or via WP:MERGE, or ?
Thank you to all who have participated in this (now quite lengthy) discussion. Dmoore5556 (talk) 20:58, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Next steps

message: I came across a slew of conference standings templates for Upper Midwest Athletic Conference (and began a TfD for a majority of them here for anyone interested in participating). However, I noticed that for the 2002 and 2003 templates, they are included in both 2002 NCAA Division III football season and 2002 NAIA football season, and both 2003 NCAA Division III football season and 2003 NAIA football season. I don't think programs can be part of the NCAA and NAIA in the same season, so could anyone help out and figure out which league these conferences belong to? Eagles 24/7 (C) 19:02, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: It was certainly the case at one time that a single conference could include both NAIA and NCAA teams, c.f. Template:1981 Lone Star Conference football standings. That's also a very silly set of TfDs. Jweiss11 (talk) 19:24, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text:  The article Upper Midwest Athletic Conference says it joined the NCAA in 2008 from the NAIA. It looks like you added these templates to each of the NCAA and NAIA season articles, could you clarify or source in the article what happened with their league affiliations? And I agree it is very silly that there are so many of these standings templates that are only used in one article, since it defeats the purpose of a template. Eagles 24/7 (C) 21:05, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not silly at all if you consider the principles of consistency and parallelism and think about how articles related to these templates are almost surely going to evolve. The UMAC's website says the conference joined the NCAA in 2008 here: https://umacathletics.com/sports/2008/2/28/History.aspx. The NCAA website indicates that Northwestern (MN) joined the NCAA in 2008 (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/history?utf8=%E2%9C%93&org_id=30031&sport_code=MFB&commit=Searchthat) but that Martin Luther has been an NCAA member since 1991 (https://stats.ncaa.org/teams/history?utf8=%E2%9C%93&org_id=8597&sport_code=MFB&commit=Search). So in 2002, and a few other years, the UMAC apparently included both NAIA and NCAA teams. Jweiss11 (talk) 21:18, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text:  Do you think a note should be added to some of these standings templates to indicate which league the team was a member of? I find these mixed-league conferences are confusing to readers (and me). And since these standings templates are being created before team articles, season articles, and other list articles for the programs, context may be needed to understand them. Eagles 24/7 (C) 21:55, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text:  Note of clarification that, at one time, it was not uncommon for schools to belong to both the NCAA and NAIA. I don't know to what degree that was the case "only" ~20 years ago, but this article from July 1958 notes around 120 small colleges were, at that time, members of both organizations. Dmoore5556 (talk) 02:54, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Oklahoma Panhandle State was a NCAA Division II independent and a member of the NAIA Central States Football League well into the 2010s. They joined the Lone Star Conference before dropping down to NAIA and re-join the SAC.-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 21:27, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Upper Midwest Athletic Conference]]: NAIA or NCAA D3? 

message: I just went through and reconciled the CFB HOF inductee lists with Category:College Football Hall of Fame inductees, and came up with 129 names that need to be added to the category. I don't have time to work on them now, but I figured if someone is looking for a project I can provide the list. LMK. Jb45424 (talk) 00:56, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Is what needs to be done, simply adding :Category:College Football Hall of Fame inductees to 129 different articles? Dmoore5556 (talk) 01:32, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. Jb45424 (talk) 03:20, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text:  OK—perhaps create a list, similar to (and simpler than) Wikipedia:WikiProject College football/CFHOF article improvement campaign, so volunteers can edit as time allows and mark as completed. Dmoore5556 (talk) 04:01, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Follow up: WikiOriginal-9 updated 96 of these articles on 17 May, and I updated the remaining 33 today. So the work is done.  Jb45424 (talk) 11:47, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  CFB HOF 

message: The Cleveland Plain Dealer is now available digitally on Newspapers.com.  Woohoo! Cbl62 (talk) 16:27, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Most excellent! When my local Dayton papers were added to Newspapers.com, it was honestly one of the happiest days of my life! Jb45424 (talk) 16:35, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleveland Plain Dealer  

message: In recent weeks, , , and I have done a bunch work to expand our coverage of junior college football, e.g. 1941 Los Angeles City Cubs football team, 1967 junior college football season, and 2023 junior college football season. An issue that needs some discussion and resolution is the naming scheme for a few junior college athletics programs. I'll kick things off with a couple examples.
* The Pierce Brahmas of Los Angeles Pierce College: based on Newspapers.com sources from the 1940s to 1980s, the most common short name here appears to be simply "Pierce". Consider the sources cited in these standings templates: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere?target=Pierce+Brahmas+football&namespace=10. But current definitive standings reports from the California Community College Athletic Association (3C2A or CCCAA) employ "LA Pierce"; see here. Our categorization scheme here is currently a mess, employing "LAPC", "Los Angeles Pierce", and "Pierce"; see :Category:Los Angeles Pierce College. There is also the added issue of the fight name: Brahmas or Brahma Bulls?
* The San Joaquin Delta Mustangs of San Joaquin Delta College: the school was known as Stockton Junior College from 1935 to 1948 and Stockton College 1948 to 1963, so before the fall of 1963, I think "Stockton Mustangs" is most appropriate and then "San Joaquin Delta Mustangs" starting then. The school now self-brands its teams as "Delta College Mustangs", but I'm not sure when that started; see here. The CCCAA standings reports linked above still use "San Joaquin Delta". Our categorization scheme at :Category:San Joaquin Delta College is inconsistent.
Thoughts on these two to start? Cbl62 may have more examples worthy of discussion. Jweiss11 (talk) 17:00, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Short names for junior college programs 

message: :Category:1941 junior college football season has been nominated for merging. Please the discussion at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 May 23#Category:1941 junior college football season. Jweiss11 (talk) 14:25, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  CfD: Category:1941 junior college football season 

message: Moving this here.
Was there a discussion on what to do for the COVID-19 season in terms of coaching record tables? There about a million and a half different ways it has been expressed and I am unsure as to which should be done. I feel as though there are multiple feasible ways but I am unsure of a consensus which will tie into another point.
This goes along with the next point on if a season was played, should there be a note in the record table explaining that the games were played in the spring or just leave it without.
Third point, should 2020 be grayed out on the coaches navboxes like I did for:
If we do that, that would also go in hand with what was done for World War II, but again, just a few questions for you/seeing if there was a consensus already. Thanks! Thetreesarespeakingtome (talk) 00:25, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I, personally, believe option B is the best along with greying out the year in the navbox, although that will cause a small issue with 's Aynsley Rosenbaum and 's Rudy Carlton. Thetreesarespeakingtome (talk) 00:27, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Thetreesarespeakingtome, thanks for bringing this up. I don't believe there ever was a discussion about this. It's probably worth transferring this discussion to WT:CFB to get more input. Option B seems best to me as well for consistency with how we've treated the World Wars. As for Rosenbaum and Carlton, since they never logged a single decision as head coach on their ledger, I think they fall into the category of a Bo Rein at LSU. Jweiss11 (talk) 01:49, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

text: Impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on gridiron football, perhaps? Thetreesarespeakingtome (talk) 01:41, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, that one looks like the best option. Jweiss11 (talk) 01:45, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: 2020-21 seasons

message: There is a proposal at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League#Proposal: Remove (some) conference awards from infoboxes that editors may be interested in.-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 14:00, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Conference awards in infoboxes 

message: Template:Southeastern Conference starting quarterbacks navbox, what are the thoughts about this?-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 03:01, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Burn it with fire. Changes too often to provide any lasting value. Case in point, 6 of the 14 entries are currently incorrect, as those six players are currently either in NFL camps, or have transferred to other colleges. Ejgreen77 (talk) 03:44, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, delete this per Ejgreen77's reasoning. Jweiss11 (talk) 04:09, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Current starting QB navbox 

message: See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League#J. J. McCarthy’s lead (again). Cbl62 (talk) 21:09, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  J. J.  McCarthy 

message: An A&E biography on Admiral William Halsey Jr. is on and it mentioned how he "played football on one of the worst team's in [Naval A]cademy history." All editorialism aside, I checked his page and it didn't have the Navy Midshipmen category and the WP:CFB tag on the talk page despite having information about his playing days in prose. It makes me wonder how many pages might also have these oversights?-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 01:12, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably not that surprising for someone who played pre-Wikipedia and is not primarily known as a football player to be overlooked. —Bagumba (talk) 01:49, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
replies: text:  The service academy football teams have included many important military figures. For example, the 1912 Army Cadets football team included Dwight Eisenhower, Omar Bradley, Vernon Prichard, Louis A. Merrilat, Geoffrey Keyes, William  M. Hoge, and Leland Devore --  not to mention Tennessee coaching legend Robert Neyland.  For anyone looking for a worthwhile project, improving the service academy season articles (as well as adding CFB tags to player bios) is worth considering. Cbl62 (talk) 01:58, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not going to lie, I am not very strong at article improvement when it comes to promoting articles to GA, let alone FA. I can write well off Wikipedia, but I am completely unsure what really makes the threshold (and yes I've read the pages about that). But, I admire how the NFL project is working on making lists FLs. I wonder if a good start would be to raise Army, Navy, Air Force, and even the D-III Coast Guard program articles, head coaches, seasons, and bowl lists, to that standard?-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 02:14, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Service academy football 

message: I have noticed that some editors have started to move certain pages to their new conference affiliation ex, UCLA Bruins football, DeShaun Foster. When should these pages actually be updated? If it is in-fact on July 1, when should it be 12:00 am EDT,  6/30 11 CDT,  6/30 9 PDT, or 12 EDT, 12 CDT etc? (Eastern-time or institution time specific)-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 16:03, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: More examples Template:Southeastern Conference football navbox updated for 2024, Template:Southeastern Conference football rivalry navbox not fully updated for 2024.-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 16:09, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  July 1 realignment moves 

message: Regarding the above series of articles, I've started adding a section for annual statistical leaders. E.g., 1950 leaders, 1951 leaders, 1952 leaders, 1953 leaders, 1954 leaders, 1955 leaders,
Any suggestions on formatting? Is the top 10 a reasonable cutoff? Should we include other categories such as punting? Team passing offense? Team passing defense? Team rushing offense? Team rushing defense? I also welcome help building this out for other seasons (the data can be found in both annual NCAA guides and in post-season newspaper reports). Cbl62 (talk) 21:46, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone should make an article for the 1950 receiving leader (Gordon Cooper (American football)) ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 01:18, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  "19xx college football season" articles