Talk:First Navy Jack

message: I see that First Navy Jack and Don't tread on me have been marked for merger. Although both have their roots in American Revolutionary politics, I believe that they should remain separate pages. "Don't tread on me" deals with the political movement of the time, while the First Navy Jack is a matter of military history. I would suggest that they two pages be more focused, but remain separate. —Linnwood 21:26, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Chris 01:25, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Re: Merge Notice

message: I was reading "The U.S. Navy's First Jack" on the Naval Historical Center Web site.  The historical accuracy of the "Rattlesnake Jack" being the first official jack of the US is  reportedly not based on verifiable information.  It states in relevant parts (emphasis added):
:The United States Navy originated as the Continental Navy, established early in the American Revolution by the Continental Congress by a resolution of 13 October 1775. There is a widespread belief that ships of the Continental Navy flew a jack consisting of alternating red and white stripes, having the image of a rattlesnake stretched out across it, with the motto "Don't Tread on Me." That belief, however, rests on no firm base of historical evidence.
:It is well documented that the rattlesnake and the motto "Don't Tread on Me" were used together on several flags during the War of Independence. The only question in doubt is whether the Continental Navy actually used a red and white striped flag with a rattlesnake and the motto "Don't Tread on Me" as its jack. The evidence is inconclusive. There is reason to believe that the Continental Navy jack was simply a red and white striped flag with no other adornment.
:In early 1776 Commodore Esek Hopkins, the first and only commander in chief of the Continental Navy fleet, used a personal standard designed by Christopher Gadsden of South Carolina. This flag consisted of a yellow field with a coiled snake and the motto "Don't Tread on Me." There is no doubt as to the authenticity of Hopkins's personal standard, usually referred to as "the Gadsden flag."
:The only written description of the Continental Navy jack contemporary with the American Revolution appears in Commodore Hopkins's "Signals for the American Fleet," January 1776, where it is described as "the strip'd jack." No document says that the jack had a rattlesnake or motto on it. Elsewhere, Hopkins mentions using a "striped flag" as a signal. Since American merchant ships often displayed a simple red and white striped flag, there is a good chance that the striped jack to which Hopkins refers was the plain, striped flag used by American merchant ships.
I propose that information be updated to come in line with the offical historical word from the United States Navy.  I am holding off on editing to allow people to weigh in. Assawyer 01:07, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Historical authenticity

message: Was it flown for the Navy's Bicentenial, or the countries, or both?  Anyone have the dates? --J Clear 14:10, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I found that after posing the question.  Article already updated. --J Clear 16:48, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bicentennial 

message: It is supposed to come from the UK Union flag. The various UK ensigns (national flags for use at sea) all have the UK Union flag in the upper right hand corner. U.K. ships would often fly this flag at the bow on a ‘jack’ staff, as well as the ensign on the mainmast. Some monarch is supposed to have wanted the ‘real’ flag on board his ships somewhere. (This is also why the UK union flag is often called the ‘Union Jack’).
The us navy continued the custom with the us flag, despite the fact that the Union (starry bit) of the US flag is not a separate flag in itself, and the US flag is also the US ensign, the same on land or at sea. But old habits die hard.
If this can be properly documented, it would improve the article. 2A00:23C7:E284:CF00:21C1:1B36:160D:F36 (talk) 08:16, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
thread_title: Origins of Jack