Talk:Prussia/Archive 2

message: I have attempted to clean up the language of the article to make it more readable. I have not attempted to reorganize the layout of the page, rewrite or condense anything, or correct factual errors or bias.
Jeff 00:38, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have simultaneously made edits (also formatting and content), and hopefully both versions are now merged without too much collateral damage. --Matthead 03:47, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup 

message: Here is a proposed new article. Comments and suggestions are welcome, but I am not interested in arguments about whether people or places should be called by German, Polish or Klingon names. All names are in English and should remain so. If there are no violent objections I will replace the current article with this one, and also redirect the Republic of Prussia and History of Prussia articles to this one. Draft new Prussia article.
Adam 15:32, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: New draft article

message: I have renamed and/or redirected all the other Prussian history articles to link into the text of this article, so that readers can get more detail on particular periods. Some of those articles still need work, but this is now a much better structure I think. Adam 03:14, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I did my research in Poland so most info was in Polish, Lithuanian, Russian and German I don't know what I can turn up. And I see it was fair to clarify that since the Prussian state covered many German lands the majority of self-described Prussians would have been German (This is comparable to certain Northern Irish considering themselves as English) and it is actually only a minority of Germanized or Polanized Prussians from the province (regions 2 & 13 on the map) considere themselved distinct from Germans. Zestauferov 07:33, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Very strange. I always thought that Prussians believed they are better then other Germans. Moreover,Adenauer said, that East of Elbe immidiately starts Azia. So Prussia was sometimes viewed as something enemy to Germans.
If we have distinct article about Prussia, this Prussia-German differences should be also described. Cautious 10:49, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)

text: This is just the sort of Polish-German etc ethnist crap I intend keeping out of this article. Adam 11:03, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think I have agreed with Cautious thus far, but at least I can agree that there does, at least from the view of those called by the world as East Prussians, prevail the view that they are the only true Prussians and distinct from German Brandenburgers. Thus at least some comment about arguments of those claiming to be Prussian and distinction from German ethnicity might be of some relevant value.Zestauferov 13:50, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: "The most German-speaking Prussians considered themselves to be part of the German nation, often underlining the purely Prussian virtues: perfect organisation, sacrifice, rule of law." Since Germany were united only in 1871, before Prussians and Austrians were part of German community in cultural sense, but not in political sense. Even in German Empire, as far as my historians were concerned, Prussia had distinct identity. Most historians underline, that Prussians did a lot to avoid dissolving in German sea, rather Prussify Germany then Germanize Prussia. As the example, the web page devoted to imperial Berlin, derives Berliners from 4 cultures: German, Slavic, French hugentos and Jewish. Cautious 14:24, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)

text: I know the one you are talking about but thats not it. This is going to take some time. Maybe MRG has something in English.
I have some images for Prussian flags in different periods, would it be nice to put an image of the relevant flag next to the relevant artice section as the current Kingdom of Prussia sectin has?Zestauferov 07:26, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)

text: I have to agree that there is a fog. Citizens of the state often called themselves prussian regardless of whether or not their origins were from the Province of Prussia. Natives of the Province certainly objected to anyone but themselves claiming the term prussia. The last prussian proper uprising against Brandenburg hegemony was in the 1840s and (in reference to Space Cadet's comment on Polish Patriotism) many Prussians (I use the term to refer to those with origins in the province so they were not exactly Germans but certainly germanic/germanized) Polanized themselves as a statement against what was seen as German occupation Polishness being a symbol of resistance in the area at the time. Which group of encyclopaedias will wiki join? The Gloss-over type or the clarifying type? Zestauferov 03:40, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)

text: Also as Space Cadet indicated, there is a mistake in assuming the only Prussia to be the giant state that term is most often used to refer to but the map is superb. Unfortunately it is not easy to separate the two Prussias which is why confusion often arises and very few encyclopaedias available attempt to clarify the issue. The Province vs The State. I always use the term Greater Prussia which seems to convey the right nuances (it is Prussia but also something more than). How about calling it Greater Prussia in the German Empire? 
----------------
Small thing: Yes! Warmia was a voivodship of Royal Prussia and yes (!) it is an English language place name. (Britannica).
Space Cadet 14:59, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)

text: I'm not interested in abstract debates about nationality. I am interested in a draft paragraph that deals with the issue Zestauferov and Space Cadet have raised. If one is not forthcoming the article can stay the way it is. Adam 13:10, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Space Cadet if you could do the honours then I will add anything if necessary.Zestauferov 15:14, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)

text: I couldn'r agree more. I would write something myself but have been the brunt of quite a lot of back biting on user talk pages (on this topic from John Kenney) and it seems virtually anything I try to write these days is deleted by a group apparently surrounding sysop Llwrch following a disagreement on NPOV and Rohl. I should warn you that you my endorsement is viewed by many only as good as "a crackpot"'s ((sigh)). Even so it is apparent to me you do know a lot about the complexities of the subject unlike the impatient critics who claimed to but are now silent. Just try to keep it concise. Hope you don't mind me hiding your enail below, best just pit it into your user preferences.Zestauferov 01:03, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)

text: I did not bother to read everything that you wrote because of the insulting and pompous tone which I am quite sick of. In answer to your question, Prussians are Germanic (though original Prussians were Baltic not slavic as you suggest) like Austrians but it would also be a mistake to call Austrians German.Zestauferov 00:19, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)

text: Well the Prussians I know in Kaliningrad (I myself though Jewish being of such extraction) don't like the application of the term German and for that reason I am editing such indications from the article and will continue to do so untiol I am banned if necessary. Some Austrians might not object to being called Germans others would probably rather die. The same goes for East-Prussians. It would be imperialistic to impose a national identity upon them which they themselves reject. Just the same as Scots would fight to the bitter end being called English regardless of whether they can speak Gaelic or not and may in all other aspects to all intents and purposes seem English. Like such Scots, Preussischers (EastPrussians) also at least retain a dialectic accent (and many Yiddish words) even if their language is basically German. I have no English written references for this but it is easily verifiable by making a trip to Kaliningrad. I have some addresses if anyone wants to meet some true Prussians. I am sure they would be pleased to share their ordeals with any interested westerner.Zestauferov 13:54, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Feeder articles

message: I am sure you have some kind of reason for this, but to me it seems like very unneccessary clogging of the first line of the article, giving a weird and un-inviting impression.
It's nothing else than two different spellings in a foreign language – foreign both to the reader and to the locals. If both versions are to be mentioned, then why not in a section with other less relevant variants of the name (Latin, Lithuanian...)?
--Ruhrjung 13:15, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Preußen or Preussen" 

message: Re this edit which people keep posting: "But although Russia twice offered to sell it [Kaliningrad] back to Germany, the current social democratic administration is not claiming the territory, and there is, according to some, very little chance that German Prussia will ever re-appear. However, the large organisation of Prussian expellees in exile in West-Germany are continuing their efforts to reach this goal."
*Can we have some evidence thar Russia ever offered to sell Kaliningrad to Germany? A Google search shows that the suggestion was made by various people in Russia, but was never taken up officially. The story may have originated with this hoax. Where is the evidence for such an offer being made?
*"according to some" is just weasel-word nonsense. Where is evidence that anyone aside from a few cranks thinks that "German Prussia will ever re-appear." This would require a war with Poland - who is advocating this?
*"large organisation of Prussian expellees in exile in West-Germany are continuing their efforts to reach this goal" I don't think this is remotely true. The surviving adult Prussian expellees will now be in their late 70s. Are they planning to invade Poland in their walking-frames? Adam 05:45, 10 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Kaliningrad and Prussian revival

message: Where was the data used in this table taken from?
Population of Prussia and its Provinces in 1890
 Inhabitantsnon-German citizens
East Prussia1,958,6632,189
West Prussia1,433,6811,976
City of Berlin1,578,79417,704
Brandenburg2,541,7835,213
Pomerania1,520,8891,405
Posen1,751,6421,438
Silesia4,224,45824,811
Saxony2,580,0104,642
Schleswig-Holstein1,217,43737,821
Hannover2,278,3618,089
Westphalia2,428,6619,879
Hessen-Nassau1,664,4269,801
Rhineland4,710,39139,669
Hohenzollern66,720161
It seems highly doubtful that in less than 20 years the German population of Poznan Voivodship (which had approximately the same boundaries as the earlier provinz Posen) dropped from almost 2 millions to almost 100.000 (less than 800.000 in whole Poland in 1931). 
Of course, during and after WWI many Germans moved to Germany proper, but the scale of this exodus was much smaller than this table indicates. It is probable that this table is based on some German census of late 19th century, in which Poles, Kashubians and others are listed as "Germans", but if this is the case, then such a remark should be noted. 
Also, the data differs significantly from the tables at Province of Posen. Halibutt 20:17, 21 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Factual accuracy dispute 

message: Is it worthwhile listing which Gaue replaced the "Prussian Free State" (Freistaat Preußen)? The Roach 12:08, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gaue 

message: Tydaj, I don't think your sentence 
:"The name Prussia derives from the little known fact that Prussia existed prior to Russia."
is a good replacement of
:"The name Prussia derives from the Prussians, a Baltic people related to the Lithuanians."
perhaps you could try to clarify here what it is you are trying to say?
The Roach 06:51, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Etymology of "Prussia" 

message: I wonder about the use of the phrase "troublesom Polish minority" whether it should more accurately be "disgruntled polish minority". It might be pertinent in the same vein to mention that Ermeland in East Prussia held the disgruntled catholic population who empathised with the Polish minority even polanizing themselves, and that this along with the East-prussian league of the Just (reorganised as the Communist league in 1847) seperatists, led to the rebellion in East-prussia in 1848. Afterall if it were not for the drive to crush these disgruntled revolutionaries (whether Pole, Catholic or Communist), the Liberals would not have gotten their way leading to Prussia's vastest period.The Roach 12:46, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disgruntled Eastern Populations 

message: Part of the introduction currently reads:
* An independent state, from the 17th century until 1871;
Shouldn't 17th century be changed to 1701 (foundation of the Kingdom of Prussia)? Olessi 20:12, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It was released from Polish sovereignty, but it exchanged that sovereignty for that of Brandenburg. To me, an independent state means that it had complete internal and external sovereignty. I don't believe that Ducal Prussia had such freedom. I propose the following:
* A fief known as Ducal Prussia ruled by the Hohenzollern dynasty, first under the sovereignty of Poland and then of Brandenburg;
* The entire Hohenzollern realm, whether within or outside Germany proper;
* An independent state, from 1701 until 1871;
Olessi 05:03, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Intro date 

message: Analyze the military, political and social factors that account for the Rise of Prussia between 1640-1786
    
       
    Specific examples would help- thank you
----
A prussian Soldier has little to do with the landscape of Prussia...it would be pointless to merge the two articles--New Guy The 17th 05:32, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rise of Prussia 

message: I removed these two links:
* Forum in Prussian
*Nērtiks. Website in Prussian
I think the former is just pure linkspam and the latter...I actually don't know what the latter is, but it doesn't look like anything useful. I believe both links are there only for promotion. 
Any objections..? --Thorri 14:44, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed two links

message: Were people who originally inhabited the area of Prussia of Germanic tribes? 
I realise that there is a dispute, but why would they have been so "loving" of Germanic affairs, such as wanting North Germanic territory, etc. Unless of course there was a such a large Germanic population in Prussia that they were considered a Germanic nation, which is what I have read. 
Again, i'm asking:
(1.) Original "Prussian" tribes were German?
(2.) Original "Prussian" tribes were Caucasion, but of their own "race," if not German? 
"These countries had nothing to do with Germany, Holy Roman Empire or anything German except language." - How did they obtain a Germanic language then? Then again, if my two questions are answered, it will answer that question as well.
London 23:11, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The "Original" Prussians 

message: Is there any reason that the info at the top of the article isn't on a seperate Disambiguation page? It seems to me that the top of this article is effectively a disambiguation page -- but it's been like this for a long time, so I figure there's a reason. Would someone mind informing me? Canaen 02:30, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Diambiguation 

message: Hello,
I would like to see added another aspect in the prussian history than the aforementioned "perfect organization, obedience, rule of law, militarism" etc.
Could we include this sentence for example:
"..Though the history and legacy of Prussia are not without controversy, they are much broader than commonly assumed. A closer look shows that equating Prussia with authoritarianism and militarism is an over-simplification. Among other achievements, the early Prussian state set standards of public administration and education still in place today. Perhaps less well known are the ideals of religious and ethnic tolerance and intellectual exchange furthered by early Prussian rulers such as Frederick William, the Great Elector (1620-1688), Frederick William I (1713-1740), and the ever-popular Frederick the Great (1740-1786).
At the same time that the Prussian kings were building up military power, they also opened Prussia's borders to immigrants fleeing from religious persecution in other parts of Europe. Prussia became a safe haven in much the same way that the United States welcomed immigrants seeking freedom in the 19th century. An admirer of the French philosopher Voltaire, Frederick the Great was an enlightened ruler. He introduced a general civil code abolishing torture and establishing the principle that the crown would not interfere with matters of justice. He also furthered an advanced "high school" education, forerunner of today's gymnasium system, which prepares the brightest students for university studies. In response to a devastating defeat at the hands of Napoleon in 1806, reformers such as Baron Karl vom Stein and Prince Karl August von Hardenberg went about modernizing the Prussian state - liberating the peasants from serfdom, emancipating Jews and making them full citizens, and instituting self-administration in municipalities...."
Source
http://www.germany.info/relaunch/culture/history/prussia.html 
What do you think?
Kenaz9 15:17, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As long as information comes from reputable sources, be bold and feel free to update pages yourself. Remember that direct inclusion of the text you listed here would violate the German Embassy's copyright page, so keep in mind Wikipedia's copyright policies. Happy editing!  Olessi 02:59, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you Olessi! I will ask the embassy for the right to publish it here. Kenaz9 04:31, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I would not advise you to seek permission to copy their text verbatim. Instead, it is better to incorporate relevant information into the preexisting text using your own words. You can cite your references using footnotes. Olessi 04:52, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I just send a request to use this text (to be on the safe side). But of course I will rewrite and shorten it a bit and add the references. Where do you think it would fit best? The header of this article is already a bit long...Kenaz9 05:11, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

text: It's quite correct! The schoolsystem developed in Prussia is active in Germany till today. Jews were given citizen rights, religious and ethnic groups pursued in their countries found a new         home in Prussia etc. These are indisputable facts! Kenaz9 22:28, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Then please write an article about this Molobo. Mine isn't centered around the Poles...Kenaz9 13:21, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Did you forgot that Prussia annexed Polish lands and as result it had a large Polish population(up to 40%) ? Prussia's history is as Polish as it is German.
--Molobo 20:12, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Well, everyone knows that Prussians copied KEN efforts, and that Frederic was keen on turning Poles into good Germans Szopen 08:01, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another Aspect? 

message: I expanded the article. It now contains a mix from the former and translations from the article in the german Wikipedia. Happy editing! :)  Kenaz9 15:15, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Expansion 

message: The POV of this article is completely unnacceptable as is deletion of information on persecution of national minorities in Prussia.
--Molobo 16:38, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That certainly does not belong in this overview article. Perhaps this article should even be shortened and information redistributed to subarticles. Kusma (討論) 16:53, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The current POV article

message: The current article is not well organized and overlaps with other articles. The language is awkward. Further, the article shows an apologetic POV. '-Zickzack 10:18, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This article is about facts about Prussia - not the feelings of others towards Prussia. How much whining about conquests, suppression of religions and Latinization of other people during the centuries of the Roman Empire is listed there? Or a more recent state, like, the Second Polish Republic, which had minorities that add up to 33%, but very few sentences about them? --Matthead 04:09, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If you feel other articles lack information feel free to expand them. Sadly Poles were forced to become subjects of Prussian state which discriminated them and who's society held racist views towards their fellow co-citizens. Prussia's history is also Poles history.--Molobo 17:41, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: First, finally learn to format your edits properly - or, as you seem to be unable to learn, just stop to repeat the same messy statements over and over again. Second, the quality of articles like Second Polish Republic fittingly represent the priorities of certain Polish editors, thank you. And third, claiming that Prussia's history is also Poles history is remarkable, coming from one who tries to delare certain towns, areas and people as purely Polish, trying to eliminate or downplay centuries of German history. --Matthead 20:25, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

text:  It´s easy to understand Molobos insecurity and anti-German sentiments, seeing as many Poles now find themselves in exactly the same position as their earlier Prussian "adverseries". As a rule it´s only dictatorships or one-party States that try and change History. Those who accept the past for what it was, tend to be more secure   IsarSteve 20:41, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup 

message: I have attempted to clean up the language of the article to make it more readable. I have not attempted to reorganize the layout of the page, rewrite or condense anything, or correct factual errors or bias.
Thank you Tweenex, that was helpful! Kenaz9 07:57, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Of course. Poles were never persecuted in German state and in fact it were Germans persecuted by unruly Polish children.  At least try to be serious. I am well aware of how Polonophobia article has been attacked and damaged by your angry protests about information regarding persecution of Polish people by various German governments. --Molobo 19:26, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I had to reformat Molobo's entry, once again. This is the talk page on Prussia, at least here some Ordnung should be kept. --Matthead 20:33, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

text:  ... asks someone who never uses his native language on English Wikipedia. It's hardly surprising that you don't know what orderliness means, no matter in what language. --Matthead 21:19, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's hardly surprising that you don't know what orderliness means A typical personal attack. --Molobo 21:25, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I think he means your messy formatting. But don't let that your paranoia stop you! Kenaz9 21:31, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cleanup 

message: I ask why information regarding the persecution of millions of citizens within Prussia was deleted and why the information that Prussian citizens were discriminated and treated as second class citizens based solely on their ethnic background was determined unaccaptable by certain editors. I ask for calm and factual discussion regarding the issue, without personall issues and attacks. As to my view I see no reason why such information should be excluded. The information on apartheid is part of article regarding South Africa, likewise information about ethnic persecutions in Prussia should also be in the article.
--Molobo 21:55, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Why is information about ethnic cleansing planned (not done) by the German Empire  relevant for an article about Prussia? Kusma (討論) 21:33, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I am not an expert on Prussia. For the relevance, we should check what most major history books say about this matter: if it plays a major part in most books about Prussia, it is probably relevant enough to be included here. Otherwise, it is not. About the "planned ethnic cleansing": Your argument would also work to make this sentence relevant for Poland (since that's where the territory would come from), Wilhelm II of Germany (since he was the commander), World War I (since that was the historical context). However, these plans are obviously out of place in all of these articles. Kusma (討論) 21:54, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Once again

message: *http://mars.wnec.edu/~grempel/curriculum/papers/schirach.pdf
*http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1118019
*http://fit.euv-frankfurt-o.de/Veroeffentlichungen/Discussion%20Papers/PDF-Format/05-02Spohn.PDF
Without commentary, posting full quotes from these articles is probably a copyright violation. These quotes are also not a discussion of our article, and so do not belong on the talk page. Molobo, you have been asked many times to stop posting long excerpts from sources to talk pages. Kusma (討論) 14:00, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is the talk page of the article Prussia. Information about Prussia is only relevant here when it belongs to a suggestion how to improve the article. Your posts do not discuss how to improve our article. Kusma (討論) 15:48, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Uncommented quotes posted by Molobo

message: http://mars.wnec.edu/~grempel/curriculum/papers/schirach.pdf 
Wilhelm Kube, leader of National socialism in the Prussian Landtag, attempted to connect the great Prussian heritage of Frederick II with Hitler and his youth by stating that all the good things in Prussianism were to be found in Nazism and its younger generation. "Once the proud lags and standards of Frederick's army provided the entire German people with security and the guarantee of a special future; today the standards and flags of the National Socialists do the same 
Please add the information about Nazi adoration of Prussian values and that Nazi's believed that all good things about Prussia were founded in Nazism.
--Molobo 14:59, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Interesting information

message: Here are some examples of ethnic relations within Prussia:
http://fit.euv-frankfurt-o.de/Veroeffentlichungen/Discussion%20Papers/PDF-Format/05-02Spohn.PDF 
From the German perspective, the growing social power and political superiority was based on virtues such as discipline, work and order combined with loyal obedience, cultural education and rational enlightenment. These German self-images corresponded with images of the Polish Other such as lack of discipline, laziness, chaos, cultural barbarity and superstitious irrationalism. From the Polish perspective, the Germans represented lack of freedom, personal repression and bureaucratic reglementation, blind obedience, cultural arrogance and amoral rationalism – German images that contrasted to the Polish virtues of freedom, heroism, sacrifice as well as a culture of the heart and religiosity. 
Another example of different view towards what Prussia represented from the file:
In Polish eyes, German Protestantism appeared heartless, secular and individualistic. 
--Molobo 15:04, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: National relations within the state of Prussia

message: I found an interesting review and I would like to know more about this :
http://www.jewishcomment.com/cgibin/news.cgi?id=14&command=shownews&newsid=533
He does not shrink from examining the problems associated with assimilation and conversion, the tribulations that afflicted German Jews who wished to be accepted as Germans without being scorned as Jews. He carefully examines German antisemitism, as manifested in the nationalistic fervour that swept Prussia after its defeat by Napoleon, in the 'Hep! Hep!' riots of 1819, the political antisemitism of the late 1870s, and the crisis years after 1918.
What were those riots ?
--Molobo 17:07, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Does somebody know more about the Prussian antisemitsm

message: The article doesn't show other issues of Prussia. The perception of its activities in Europe, the discrimination of national minorities, the antisemitism, the issue of Prussia in German National Socialist ideology. Most books on Prussia touch the subjects like this and give information. The issues of national discrimination for example greately influenced Prussian politics and beliefs in certain periods. There is no mention of this in the article.
--Molobo 11:14, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed, some of those could be included in this article. I understand why some users wouldn't like to do that themselves, but expansion of this article would be a good way to avoid conflicts. //Halibutt 22:40, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV 

message: I would just like to say that the third paragraph of the article is grammatically incorrect. It's second sentence is an incomplete sentence. Rather, it was, before I changed it a minute ago. Before I fixed it, it read like this:
"Prussia attained its greatest importance in the 18th and 19th century. After ascending to the position of fifth European great power under the reign of Frederick II of Prussia the Great (1740-1786), and after Chancellor Otto von Bismarck, who pursued the policy of creating a German Empire out of the German states minus Austria, made Prussia the leading power in Germany in place of Austria."
The simplest way of fixing the fact that the second sentence of this is a sentence fragment (in spite of being long) would be to replace "After" with "This was after". However, I chose to break it into several short sentences. The paragraph, after four back-to-back edits by me, reads like this:
Prussia attained its greatest importance in the 18th and 19th century. There are several main political reasons for this. During the 18th century , Prussia ascended to the position of fifth European great power under the reign of Frederick II of Prussia the Great (1740-1786). During the 19th century, Chancellor Otto von Bismarck pursued the policy of creating a German Empire out of the German states minus Austria and made Prussia the leading power in Germany in place of Austria.
Note that the first sentence of this paragraph is still a subjective opinion; I know little about Prussian history or the Wikipedia standards for NPOV and sought only to fix the confusing grammar. I haven't read the whole article either, but neither will anyone else if the opening paragraphs turn them off with writing errors.
This article contains over 63 paragraphs. I'm sure that if the second paragraph of the article was allowed to have a sentence fragment, there is probably plenty of other unclear writing. -Todemo
: Maybe the sentence should state what kind of importance is meant. I think it makes sense as it marked the height of Prussian power. In the end of the 19th century, part of the focus shifted from Prussia to Germany, reducing the importance of Prussia as such.
: As for correcting unclear sentences, please carry on. -- ZZ 10:28, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unclear writing 

message: Prussia was originally a robber state, very poor. It's units invided Poland many times and abducted workers and recruits. During the 18 century it annexed rich Silesia and almost all ethnic Poland, so at a certain moment the Germans made only about 50% of the population. The population was taxed to finnace the great army and fortifications, eg. in Glatz area and in Poznań. Someone said that it was an army which owned a state. Many non-Prussian Germans living on annexed lands protested against Prussian administration. The city of Breslau lost the local government after 400 years of its existence. Germans living in Poznań region generally opted for Polish culture and RC religion. The Schopenhauer family emigrated from Danzig in 1793. Września children protested against forced germanization. 
Archeology in Greater Poland, includes informations about Prussian discriminations
Xx236 14:00, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origins of the Prussian state