Talk:Anna Politkovskaya/Archive 4

message: The following sentence,However, according to the Committee to Protect Journalists the cause of her illness was not determined. lacks the exact reference.  I found the following news item by CPJ that contradicts the above.
Politkovskaya was reportedly poisoned en route to Beslan on September 1. Doctors found a poison of a biological origin in her bloodstream, probably ingested through food or drink, a Novaya Gazeta staff member told CPJ today. Medical personnel were still trying to determine whether the poisoning was deliberate, the staffer said. Politkovskaya was out of the hospital but still feels weak, her colleagues said.
Thanks. — ilgiz 21:05, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ilgiz, of course you are right. CPJ did not claim that. This should be deleted from the article.Biophys 21:28, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  CPJ on Politkovskaya's illness 

message: I think that citation of Arutunan article has no place here for the following reason. Arutynan makes a lot of strong claims but does not provides any sources. When asked by Evgenia Albats about her sources, she replied: "publications in newspapers". She could not answer - what newspapers, and she does not provide any references in her article. But she admitted that she had no personal sources (people), and that she never was in Chechnya in interview to Albats. This is like I would write a scientific paper without doing any experimental or theoretical studies and without referring to any other publication. This "article" by Arutunan is a pure defamation. Such sources do not make a good Encyclopedia article. Biophys 23:10, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Article by Arutunyan again

message: There is a reference to book by Gennady Troshev in this article. Can someone include the number of the cited page? I do not see how this source supports the claim in the text.Biophys 23:23, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Troshev

message: Politkovskaya tells of her excitement about breaking a news story that a ``terrorist who had been involved in the Russian theater hostage taking in October 2002 was now employed by the government of President Vladimir Putin. Expecting a flurry of queries and phone calls, she is surprised by the lack of reaction to her expose. 
?? All sources say they all were executed. Any details/source? --HanzoHattori 14:06, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks! See . This should be also in her publications in Novaya Gazeta. I can look later.Biophys 15:37, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is it. I guess he might deserve a separate article. We also do not have any article about Achemez Gochiyayev who possibly even more important than this man. Biophys 17:55, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

text: You are so good! How could you find so fast all these sources? By the way, Ismailov from Novaya Gazeta just gave an interview to French newspaper Liberacion about Politkovskaya murder. But your information probably belongs more to article Moscow theater hostage crisis. We should use these sources of course. I have to finish my scientific paper at work (there is a deadline), but I will have more time in a couple of days.Biophys 21:34, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

text: There are more references to Elmurzaev , , 
.  It seems we are looking at the article State terrorism by Russia or Political repressions in Russia (or both) that may include cases of Litvinenko, Yandarbiev, the theater and apartments bombing in Moscow, Beslan (?), the entire Chechen war (this is like US making "war" in Michigan by bombing out Detroit - nasty place indeed with a lot of criminals), and who knows what else? Biophys 04:29, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

text: Agree.Biophys 23:50, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hanzo, I almost fell in this trap! Politkovskaya and Litvinenko talked  about another FSB double agent, Khanpasha Terkibaev  , not about Elmurzaev. It is not clear who Trepashkin was talking about (others claimed he was talking about Elmurzaev, but this is questionable, and there were three "Elmurzaevs" as Politkovskaya said). Khinshein is talking about Elmurzaev, but Khinshtein works for FSB. Dullop believed in Khinstein version, which was also promoted by FSB-related media such as "utro" and others. So, he wrongly decided that Terkibaev (who died soon in car crash) was a fake . Dullop was also wrong in some other details. Real spy story! So, the real Abu Bakar was probably Terkibaev, but that is difficult to write down. Can you read Russian? Biophys 02:41, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Trepashkin actually said the following :
"I also," Trepashkin continued, "received information on 'Abubakar,' who, for an extensive period of time, had been living in the city of Moscow and had been earning a profit from firms based at the Hotel Salyut in the southwest of Moscow that no one was laying a hand on. Information had come even earlier that the Hotel Salyut was sending part of the funds to support the Chechen rebels. However, no one was carrying out any checking, since the shadowy funds were also being disseminated to several leaders of the [Russian] power structures. The Hotel Salyut was headed by two Chechens,... but their deputy was [retired] Lieutenant General of the USSR KGB Bogantsev. For this reason, no one [among the authorities] was laying a hand on 'Abubakar' in the hotel." Following the Dubrovka incident, Trepashkin voluntarily turned over the information he had collected concerning "Abubakar" to the FSB, but the FSB reacted to this gesture by "trying to fabricate a criminal case against me."
In a later statement, dated 20 July 2003, Trespashkin added: "At the end of July-August 2002,... I received information about a concentration in the city of Moscow of armed Chechen extremists.... They were especially concentrated in the Southwest and Central districts of the city of Moscow." Trepashkin recalled that he had earlier taken "Abdul" into custody in Chechnya in 1995 but that a senior secret police official, Nikolai Patrushev [now head of the FSB], and the then director of the FSK, Mikhail Barsukov, had "ordered me to leave him in peace.(25) 
...
"the experts from the Russian FSB deemed the information I possessed about the events at the 'Nord-Ost' to be a state secret of Russia, and I was charged with having revealed a state secret." Trepashkin is also taking about a different man, Abdul, who was fighting alongside with Raduev and who probably was not in the Theater (second man mentioned by Litvinenko).    
It was actually journalist Dullop who suggested that Abu Bakkar is Elmurzaev according to Trepashkin (and this was repeated in other publications). Biophys 03:26, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

text: It seems after all, that Ruslan Elmurzaev did existed (a terrible criminal) and his nickname perhaps was "Abu Bakkar", but he never was in the theater.Biophys 04:03, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Moscow theater hostage crisis]]

message: 28.05.2007
Eurasian Secret Services Daily Review
AIA
Paper’s investigation reveals Chechens tied with regime as customers of 
Politkovskaya’s murder
Journalists of the Novaya gazeta, colleagues of Anna Politkovskaya, 
murdered on October 7, 2006, have identified customers of the murder, – 
Newsru.com cites Vyacheslav Izmailov, former officer of the Russian 
army, currently a journalist of the newspaper. He adds that it is 
necessary to examine, whether they operated independently or have been 
connected with the Russian intelligence services.
Two suspects specified by the journalistic investigation are 
high-ranking Chechen officials of the regime established by Moscow. 
Position of one of them assume presence of his ties with the FSB. After 
Politkovskaya's murder those suspects or their confidants have been 
appointed to higher posts. To protect itself, the Novaya gazeta has 
conveyed their names to the BBC, to the New York Committee on Protection 
of Journalists and French daily Liberation.
According to numerous sources of the Novaya gazeta in the Chechen 
Republic, President Ramzan Kadyrov perfectly knows identity of the 
customers. The paper cites Kadyrov already allegedly saying to his 
confidants that "they had killed her, however not under my order, but 
under the order of the FSB".
Newru.com quotes a Novaya gazeta journalist as saying that „in any case, 
the FSB and the Russian Presidential administration supervising 
investigation, interfere with an establishment of the guilty." The 
editor-in-chief of " the Novaya gazeta, Dmitry Muratov, says the FSB has 
been trying to direct investigation on Berezovsky in the UK.
http://www.axisglobe.com/article.asp?article=1314 --HanzoHattori 18:06, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Right. This interview by Izamilov was discussed yesterday on "Ekho of Moscow" if I remember correctly. And they claimed that Kadyrov said exactly that.Biophys 19:56, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  unnamed high-ranking Kadyrovtsy linked to the murder 

message: I urge everyone to read this article. It is worthwhile to remember that she declared the following oath: "I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiances and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereign, to whom I or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic...." etc etc. I don't know for which reason Politkovskaya never revealed her American citizenship, I don't think it's that shameful. Is not it pathetic to call an ethnically Ukrainian person with American citizenship "Russian" after all this? --Ghirla-трёп- 07:12, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: She was a citizen of Russia. As to your speculations, she is an American citizen at birth (claimed in 1990), so there were no oath. This is a bit strange, as she was born to diplomats, but she certainly didn't go through naturalization as she lived in Moscow in 1990. To my knowledge, she has never claimed anything about her ethnicity (if you know what ethnicity means and what it depends on), so I hink it is totally wrong to classify her as Ukrainian. Colchicum 12:07, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I don't think it's reasonable to claim Politkovskaya as Russian, after she "abjured all allegiances and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereign, to whom she or which she had heretofore been a subject or citizen". Her claim to being Russian is rather tenuous, no matter what the White House and some CIA-sponsored NGOs think about it. If hatred for all things Russian qualifies one as being Russian, then Hitler should be listed among Russians as well. --Ghirla-трёп- 15:00, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: She is a natural rather than naturalized citizen and hence declared no oath. Colchicum 15:15, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

text: Also note that she was a citizen of Russia. What you think is entirely up to you, I don't care, but she was Russian. Colchicum 15:17, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Russian journalist"? 

message: "According to Memorial, it was closed because there were no violations of a criminal code. " - which phrase of the linked article confirms this?Xx236 09:23, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Right. This source say exactly the opposite. It tells: there are such camps. Thus, there is no any "controversy" after all. The article should be corected.Biophys 16:01, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Filtration camp controversy 

message: Hanzo Hattori inserts unsupported claims that Baranov was found guilty of ordering to kill Chechen man by Eurpoean court of Human Rights, however the particular court sentence contains no such findings. Instead, European court found that Russian Federation is responsible for the fate od the dissapeared just because his was in custody of the Russian Federation prior to his dissapeareance. No any direct evidence was in the court decision. I think HattoriHanzo should tone down his contributions violating Wikipedia policies. Vlad fedorov 14:42, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh Vlad, and you are the same who lied I was inserting back the unfounded allegations by Arutunyan (I wasn't) to make me banned, while now you are inserting them back yourself. This is awesome. I wonder what will you do next? --HanzoHattori 17:11, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: HattoriNanzo, your false accusations are unacceptable. I never have reported your insertions of Arutunyan. Could you provide diffs in support of your accusations? Anyway I report you now at Administrator's noticeboard. Vlad fedorov 12:20, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Insertion of defamation by Hanzo hattori 

message: Some users are removing chunks of texts on Politkovskaya criticism claiming they are poorly sourced based on defamatory and hooliganic statements by Yevgenia Alabts. However these statements are supported by general Troshev, Guardian newspaper and some other journalists. Moreover, Biophys and Hattorihanzo misinterpret court judgement by the European court of human rights, and isert claims which are not contained there. They also delete specific ciatations from the court decision which they personally dislike. Vlad fedorov 18:57, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, "some users" are removing "defamatory and hooliganic statements" by some Anna Arutunyan (whoever she is). --HanzoHattori 18:24, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disruptive editing 

message: It's written here that she was American citizen. It's your opinion that it's inappropriate for intro. Other people may disagree with you so let's leave it to reader to decide whether it's important. Alæxis¿question? 15:28, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  citizenship 

message: Is this enough of importance for an article? A slightly different version. --HanzoHattori 08:27, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, It would be great to make an article about him. I am sure there are also many Russian language sources. This is a well known case of framing by FSB, just as case of Zara Murtazalieva. For some reason Murtazalieva case get more publicity.Biophys 02:06, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Zaur Talkhigov?