Talk:Toyota Camry Hybrid/Archive 1

message: This is for people that want to learn specifics about the hybrid.  They do not care about the history of the toyota camry, irrelevent competition, irrelevent market, etc..  The toyota camary article has 95% info that people interested in the hybrid don't care about.  Also this article will contain details of the hybrid version.
This article will eventually grow very large.  If you try to include all this info into the Camry page then it will exceed the recommended article length.  Perhaps think of the Solera having its own page.
Daniel.Cardenas 21:48, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: About suggestion to be merged with Toyota Camry

message: If you would like to add an external link that is not directly associated with the Camry Hybrid, please discuss here why you think it is appropriate, otherwise it may get deleted.  Daniel.Cardenas 16:50, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Added the followings: Camry Hybrid not just have VSC/TRAC, but also Vehicle Dynamics Integrated Management [VDIM]; also included references for LED tail lights Rgl168 16:58, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Adding External Links

message: The electric motors are NOT 45 HP, though this is a common misconception. They are 105 kW, which is 140 HP. It is the battery that can output 40 or 45 HP (30 kW). For comparison, the Prius' battery only outputs 28 HP, even though the motors are capable of 67 HP. What that means is, in electric-only mode, the Camry's horsepower is 45 HP, but while the engine is running to feed electricity to the motors, their full 140 HP can be used. Similarly, when the Prius is in electric-only mode, it is effectively 28 HP; the motors only run at 67 HP when the engine is feeding electricity to them.
CGameProgrammer 00:02, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Nice catch.  :-)  Thanks! Daniel.Cardenas 06:19, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Eh, I fixed it myself, to add more details on the battery, ICE, and motors. Feel free to rephrase what I wrote if you want. CGameProgrammer 17:42, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Motor power is incorrect 

message: The car should indeed still be classified as a future product, but not for long. It is in production now and some dealers report they'll be getting the cars in early May. I'd suggest removing the future label as soon as May rolls around. CGameProgrammer
:In fact several California dealers near me report getting the cars within the next week. I'll try to take pictures, and upload one to this article. CGameProgrammer 01:52, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I am now the proud owner of a Camry Hybrid and am driving it every day...it certainly cannot be a "Future Product" anymore.  Will see if this is still in the main article page somewhere and, if so, remove it.  Theflyer 12:18, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Status as a 'future product'

message: Just for information and to try out a Wiki, Ford Escape and Toyota hybrids share the same technology when it comes to the traction motors and the programming. I was at a Ford seminar on the Escape Hybrid and it was interesting to see how the two automakers combined their knowledge to create these new vehicles. Be aware that the new regenerative brakes  which charges the batteries need to be serviced by trained technicians due to the high pressure hydraulic accumulator in the system. Training for paramedics, firemen and police officers is also recomended in case of an accident in which the "jaws of life" or other cutting tools are used to free the victem. The high voltage required to operate the motor and the battery can contain up to 380 volts and 80 amps. Online information is available for these emergency professionals for all hybrid manufacturers including Honda and GM.Albamontem M Albamonte
:If we can source this better, it is good information and should be included in the main article.  Albamonem, can you provide sourcing beyond "a Ford seminar"?  Which seminar, when, where, who were the speakers?  What sources did the speakers derive their information from?   Theflyer 18:26, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: If properly sourced, that would be good information to include in the main Hybrid Synergy Drive article.  I'm not sure the Camry Hybrid page would be the appropriate place, though. Elcobbola 18:50, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Toyota / Ford share technology with Hybrids 

message: I removed the reference to the vehicle’s price, as both the base price and delivery charges vary from locale to locale (e.g. United States versus Canada).  Additionally, price does not appear to be pertinent to the article in its current form (although it may be appropriate to mention that the Hybrid model carries a price premium over certain non-hybrid Camry models). Elcobbola 18:50, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Price 

message: The sentence stating the Camry Hybrid has a Continuously Variable Transmission is directly contradicted by the article it links to, which states "CVTs should be distinguished from Power Sharing Transmissions (PSTs), as used in newer hybrids, such as the Toyota Prius, Highlander and Camry, the Nissan Altima, and newer-model Ford Escape Hybrid SUVs." Rsmoore (talk) 00:01, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not CVT 

message: I've set up the RFC, which should be posted at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Society, sports, and culture & Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Maths, science, and technology shortly. These seemed to be reasonable venues. I will post a notice of the RFC Wikipedia:WikiProject Automobiles as well.
I'd like to ask those that previously registered an opinion regarding the merger to please provide a short statement (a couple sentences, max) in the "involved" editors section to concisely indicate your opinion, try to avoid too many threaded comments (to avoid tl;dr territory in the early going), and limit yourself to the involved section. Since the goal is to gather wider responses and weigh a community cross-section of opinions, we don't want to drown out new voices. Thanks, — Scientizzle 16:46, 25 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ready to go 

message: *Oppose merge The Camry Hybrid deserves its own article due to notability in several areas. Journalists have written many articles on this specific hybrid model due to its technological, social and economic importance.  See the "References" section of the article for examples.  Separation of this article allows for superior organization and presentation of encyclopedic information because it allows for an in-depth, relatively long article specific to the hybrid Camry without burdening the article Toyota Camry (XV40) with excessive information that may be of interest only to readers researching electric or hybrid vehicles.  Ebikeguy (talk) 16:59, 25 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: By that reasoning, there would be almost no new vehicles that were notable.  Ebikeguy (talk) 16:54, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: No, Greglocock's reasoning confirms why we don't have separate articles for every single level of trim and powertrain available (à la Ford Fiesta Econetic). Just because something is notable does not mean we require and article for its. OSX (talk • contributions) 07:54, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:   You write, "Just because something is notable does not mean we require and article for its."  That is a completely different point from Greglocock's.  My comment remains valid.  Also, notability is only one of the reasons the Hybrid Camry deserves its own article.  See various arguments, above. Ebikeguy (talk) 14:49, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

text: So what is the bar for notability then?  How do you determine notable versus not notable? Daniel.Cardenas (talk) 04:59, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

text: Expanding on my Oppose above, there's a difference between fuel source (diesel/petrol) and different drivetrain (fuel/gas-electric) entirely. It can be misleading to say diesel and full hybrid are equivalent (aside from mpg comparos). From the electric motors to regenerative braking, CVT transmissions etc., a full hybrid can be much more mechanically complex. The complexity of a full hybrid system dwarfs that of most petrol/diesel/mild hybrid, with the exception perhaps of clean diesel (Bluetec etc.). There's a reason why no Camry (petrol) and Camry (diesel) or Camry (natural gas) exists, but Camry (hybrid) does, which besides drivetrain, design, also includes other info (see above); the question goes to how well it should be maintained.  MTan355 (talk) 01:18, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Which is why we have the Hybrid Synergy Drive article to explain all the technical details behind the electric motors, regenerative braking and CVT transmissions (also stop-start, regenerative braking and CVTs are found in non-hybrids cars too, like the Audi A4 TDIe, which incidentally does not have its own article). OSX (talk • contributions) 08:32, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Responses from involved editors

message: While the responses from previously-involved editors were essentially deadlocked as before, the additional input was heavily in favor of the merge option.
What now? Editors here should merge any and all useful content to Toyota Camry (XV40) and leave a redirect in place here. Please let me know if I can provide any further guidance. Thanks for everyone's cooperation! — Scientizzle 13:09, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: RFC closed

message: "The Toyota Camry Hybrid was introduced in Japan and North America in early 2006 ..."
According to this press release from Toyota (via Autoblog Green), Camry hybrid is only available outside Japan.--North wiki (talk) 03:04, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Curious. According to the 2009 Toyota press release on that link, the Camry Hybrid was only manufacturered in the US and Thailand (and recently joined by Australia in 2010). I went to the Toyota Japan web sites http://toyota.jp/ecocar/index.html and http://toyota.jp/service/carlineup/dc/carnamelist and the Camry Hybrid is not listed. The only hybrid models advertise in Japan are the Sai (Echo), Prius, Estimate Hybrid, Crown Hybrid and Harrier Hybrid. I also tried looking for a Lexus equivalent and came up empty.  Stepho  (talk) 04:48, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I did the same thing and this page at Toyota.co.jp lists only the normally aspirated 2.4 litre version. However, I did "discover" an all-wheel drive version of the current XV40 series Camry (and also the previous XV30) that I was not aware of previously. OSX (talk • contributions) 06:13, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Available in Japan?