Talk:Avianca

message: There is a missing aircraft on the fleet section, Avianca currently has an order for 10 Airbus A350XWB-800 under the name or Synergy Aerospace. In addition to the 10 already signed orders there are 10 more options for A350XWB-800. We may want to include this into the fleet. DG (talk) 13:57, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Fleet

message: According to this site: Airline History
*Original name of the airline was Sociedad Colombo-Alemana de Transportes Aereos (SCADTA)
*Apparently the full name of this airline is (or was at one time?) Aerovias Nacionales de Colombia
*Name change to Avianca took place in 1940  after a merger with something called SCAO
Kevyn 10:10, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Notes for suggested expansion of this article

message: Unfortunately, Chalk's Ocean Airways began operating several months before Avianca in 1919, but after KLM.  Considering it is an official scheduled airline, recognized by IATA and has been so since then with its only days not operating being during World War 2, the claim the Avianca is the first airline of the Americas isn't entirly accurate. Being of Colombian descent, don't think I'm trying to descredit the airline, but I'd rather keep the article accurate than spare feelings and resentment of other Colombian nationals. -- SmthManly / ManlyTalk / ManlyContribs 20:18, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Chalk's Ocean Airways

message: Am I one the only one to notice a contradiction between two claims made in the article, i.e., Currently, Avianca holds the title as second oldest airline in the world still operating under its original name, second to KLM, and The airline was established in June 1940 by the merger of SCADTA and Servicio Aéreo Colombiano? The info box states it was founded in 1919, not 1940, by the way apoivre 21:17, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You are misrepresenting the situation. Avianca was created from a merger of two other companies in 1940, it was not a simple name change. Look at British Airways; it can trace its lineage back to Imperial Airways, but it didn't exist until the 1970s. to cite another example, look at Air France, which again can trace its heritage back to just after World War One, but didn't exist until much later. The prior existence of both SACO and SCADTA is dealt with in the article (a bit too heavily in the case of SCADTA in my opinion), and I suggest that you accept the fact (and it is a fact) that Avianca came into being in 1940. Just in case you think I have a pro-Qantas bias, someone edited that article to suggest that it was now the oldest airline in the world following the Air France-KLM merger, and I reverted that edit as it wasn't true. YSSYguy (talk) 04:59, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

text: The airline's website does not constitute a reliable third-party source. YSSYguy (talk) 23:03, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

text: Not the same. A person is totally different to a company, This wasn't a change of name, it was a merger of two companies which formed a new company/identity. Both SACO and SCADTA ceased to operate/exist when Avianca was formed and began operating in 1940.  Bidgee (talk) 13:47, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

text: For in which situation you are not concidering Alianza Summa which is also the merge of 3 mayor airlines in the country, in addition to that I gave some references showing how the Colombian Goverment accepts and trats Avianca as a 90 year old company. DG (talk) 14:03, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I am not familiar with Summa, but the article suggests that it was an operating alliance among three airlines that previously competed with each other and continued to operate as separate airlines after the alliance was formed. So - not a merger and not relevant to this discussion as far as I can tell. No-one has yet explained how or why Avianca's history should be treated differently to that of British Airways or Air France. The book The Struggle for Airways in Latin America, written in 1943, is quite clear as to what happened. SCADTA was 80% owned by Pan Am since 1931. After the formation of Avianca from the merger of SCADTA and SACO in 1940, Pan Am owned 60% of the new company, the Colombian government owned 15% and other interests owned the remaining 25%. I suggest that the Colombian government does not constitute an impartial reference either for reasons of national pride. YSSYguy (talk) 03:46, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

text: I see Mekanos's point about Airbus and Boeing. Mind it is possible that they get their info from Avianca... I'd argue that a Boeing press is a reliable source; we certainly consider them to be for info about the Boeing 787 and other aircraft pages. Perhaps some more discussion on this from YSSYguy and others? -- Flyguy649 talk 05:05, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

text: Thank you Flyguy, now what date are we going to put, I see you have removed the lock for the page, but the date stills 1940. perhaps we shall wait for some other coments? DG (talk) 13:43, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

text: Well, of course that the aircraft companies get info from the airlines. But I don't think that Boeing (or any other respectable aircraft manufacturer) would back up info that they dont take as reliable. They even mentioned about the 70 years that Avianca has been a Boeing user. Why would Boeing give Avianca all those years if it was not true? I still don't want to touch the main article until, as Flyguy said, we get some more discussion, or until a reasonable time has passed... Mekanos (talk) 19:08, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Boeing gets its information from the airline (Whether it is Qantas, Air New Zealand or Avianca) as boeing's goal is to sell, design and make aircraft and not doing its own independent investigation/research on an airlines history. Bidgee (talk) 06:35, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Well the Discussion was asking for reliable sources from a third source. Evidence has been provided from Colombian Goverment, Boeing, and Airbus. I personally think those 3 are very reliable sources. In fact Beoing and Airbus are oten used to citate other related articles. if we can not use them as a reliable source here. then all other uses must be discarted as well. and not only this one. it is either reliable or not. if it has previosly been used, them it will always be reliable. and once again if we are not going to recognize a goverment, and such big and important companies as sources, all the articles related to airlines in wikipedia are not reliable. as well as any other article citing sources from any Goverment. DG (talk) 08:59, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  1919 or 1940? 

message: I dont think it should be said the accidents are low for an airline of this age
They have lost 3 Jet Aircraft in there history to pilot error, and compared to the likes of Qanatrs which was founded a year later, which has never lost a jet, and many other airlines established in that time, there record isn't very low
220.237.34.224 16:10, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Accidents 

message: I THINK IN MY OPINION THAT WITH SOME EXTRA LINKS THIS ARTICLE COULD QUALIFY AS A FEATURE ARTICLE. User:ColBog
It needs some internal links, like a notes section (see: Footnotes), that's going to be one of the major objections if this is put up for FA now, also the images need to be organized and spaced out some more, they're rather cluttered, then you also have to do a bit of a wording rewrite, grammar is good, but wording tends to lag in some places.  Also, all the new service announcements and speculated aircraft purchases need citations to back them.  There needs to be an external link to a reliable source stating that these destinations and/or aircraft are being considered or have been announced.  I suggest taking the article through peer review first and seeing how it fares there, that should give you a lot of pointers on what to trim before taking it to FA Candidacy.  Good Luck! -- SmthManly / ManlyTalk / ManlyContribs 00:48, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  FEATURE ARTICLE 

message: Hi. I have taken a look at this page and made a few changes. Whilst it is a long article, there are some things which may need to be sorted out. I have made these changes -
* Accidents on Avianca aircraft have been significantly low for an airline of its age and location within a nation that has struggled with drug trafficking and organized crime problems. - removed. Very much a value judgement and would rather leave this out of an encyclopedia. Let the reader decide - it seems like someone may try to justify these actions. 
* In the 1990s, after the death or arrest of various traffickers at the hands of Colombian police, Avianca was able to regain its status as one of the safest airlines in the world. - Unsourced statement without proof. Removed
* They are for the exclusive use of those enjoying our Business Class ... - removed whole paragraph about lounges. Sounds like either copy-paste or advertisment. No-no.
* I have removed the news section -- this is not WikiNews. All that should be covered in the History, etc. anyway
* Removed notes section -- speculation. 
Someone may want to take an ever closer look at the article -- to make sure that its totally fixed.-- Chris Lester talk 16:39, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Just to check up...

message: I think that the term "Subsidiaries" is misused in this page. In order to become a subsidiary, there has to be a parent-owned relationship, in which the parent company owns at least 51% of the subsidiary; there is also administrative parenthood required to be called a subsidiary, since the parent company has to regulate or control the administration of the owned institution. A subsidiary is different in significance compared to affiliated which in this case reflects more clearly the ownership situation of the airline. Avianca´s parent company is the Synergy Group (SG), at the same time SG owns the shares of other companies like Ocean Air, VIP Ecuador, etc... The fact that Avianca belongs to this conglomerate, does not mean that these airlines are its subsidiaries since Avianca does not own them. These companies are only members or affiliates from the same economic group.
Regards,
200.89.6.215 17:16, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Subsidiaries 

message: when did avicanca update its logo? it must have been in the last year or so, no?  71.234.109.192 (talk) 08:55, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  new livery 

message: I am wondering how (or whether) to incorporate information about the industry practice of restricting fuel to cut costs into the article without violating wikipedia guidelines.  Are there any sources suggesting this did or did not contribute to the 1990 accident?  69.140.152.55 (talk) 20:29, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  1990 crash controversy 

message: I've unprotected the page. If disputes break out that can not be resolved by discussion here, protection can be requested at WP:RFPP. -- Flyguy649 talk 21:59, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Unprotected

message: I for one cannot understand the livery section, it is a table filled with dates and aircraft and something about Pan-Am and Eastern colours (not exactly the most straight-forward way to describe the livery!) this section and article would be very much enhanced with more pictures of the livery (so far there is a grand total of 2!) on from the 70s and the other one is most unclear and of poor quality. The British Airways one for example is much better with high quality pictures of all 4 BA liveries, with detailed description.SJHQC (talk) 21:57, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Livery 

message: The operating income is in COP which is good as this is a Colombian Airline. for general information this number shall also be put in Dollars, as COP does look pretty big and can be confusing to read. Asd of Today, the exhange rate for this is $1.892,99 COP for $1.00 USD.  DG (talk) 10:13, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Operatin Income 

message: This help request has been answered. If you need more help, please place a new  request on this page followed by your questions, or contact the responding user(s) directly on their user talk page.
Just looking at this article, there is allot of information that about Subsidiary airlines that is duplicated on that Subsidiary airline page. I have just removed a fleet table that had information about aircraft for Subsidiary airlines because that information is olso on the own subsidiary airline page. Should this type duplicate information be removed and we concentrate on Avianca rather than the Subsidiaries? Seems rather pointless to repeate this information. Other airlines are not like this on Wikipedia --JetBlast (talk) 15:26, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Help me is supposed to goon your talk page (User talk:JetBlast).  ~~EBE123~~ talkContribs 10:56, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

text: What you are asking is a matter for discussion on this talk page. Wait for other editors to comment here. -- Donald Albury 11:00, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Subsidiary Info 

message: In these number of edits i have removed a large amount of content. I have put the reasons by each edit. Most of it was lists of un-encyclopedic content. Also removed a section that was tagged with needing sources for the past 18 months. I have also removed some content from the fleet table to comply with policy. --JetBlast (talk) 22:12, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removal of content 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Is missing Germany since Munich is their destination from 16 November 2018. Has to be corrected. Tokota (talk) 06:06, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Map of Destinations 

message: This is my first time reading this article and I think the introduction is way too long, which was what I thought of instantly. I think half or even 3 quarters of it should be split into another paragraph or two. It’s just really hard to read, especially if you have dyslexia. Fork99 (talk) 22:15, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Introduction