Talk:Archaic globalization

message: The article currently states that the focus of archaic globalization is the 16th century, but History_of_globalization#History suggest it covers times up to the 16th century (I also find the latter assertion to be more correct, but it does appear that sources have varying definition of archaic globalization, as they differ on where it begun (and what came before it)). Source for 1400-1600 as the timeframe for archaic globalization; source for 16th century as the time frame for archaic glob., source that seems to use archaic globalization for the times of proto-globalization (up to 19th century), source for the archaic globalization being simply "before the 1600", another one for the same use, source using arch. glob. in the context of 100 AD, source using arch. glob. in the context of the Roman Empire. So I'd suggest defining archaic globalization as the time before 17th century (1600s), and noting that most scholars stress its time frame as from around 15th to 16th centuries, although some use it for even earlier periods (such as the times of the Roman Empire). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  22:02, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: 16th century or up to 16th century?

message: Hey Guys,
I am finding that the required book for the course is pretty helpful for our topic. I am still having some trouble finding more sources but if I stumble upon something good I will let you know.
Bfowler513 (talk) 00:55, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources 

message: I seem to be having trouble citing my references on the edit page. I can't figure out how to cite it without it showing up in the article. If I select to add references it tells me I do not have it in the proper order. Anybody know how it should go?
Bfowler513 (talk) 14:34, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: You can also try using the cite templates you can access from the pull down menu in the edit mode (see the cite to the right of the editing toolbar). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  18:17, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citing 

message: A possible recommendation is to have a history section. Also, you could possible organize it in a manner to have show an evolution or archaic globalization to present day globalization and the the differentiations between the two. I think this would solidify the topic and give a nice transitory progression to what we see in modern society. In addition, a comparison might be effective as well. Tyod (talk) 17:48, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Good suggestions! --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  00:13, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: History, Comparison, Evolution, etc.

message: There are many different countries that are touched upon during early globalization. Is it more important for me to touch upon the broad spectrum of the topic or go into detail about certain actors?
Bfowler513 (talk) 20:33, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd say broad. If you go into details, this may raise the question of "why did you focused so much on X, and omitted Y and Z"? If a source would allow to say more about X, just note this here. You can always come back to it later if you'll have time (we still have several weeks). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  00:12, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  History Section 

message: It looks like you're doing a nice job with the page.  Some sections are a little awkward as the paragraphs only contain one sentence.  Also it seems there may be some editing issues with the section "the distinction between food..ect."  Obviously these problems can be easily ironed out. Seems like a comprehensive summary of the history of archaic globalization so far.  Good work!
--Kas205 (talk) 01:19, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Informal classmate reviews 

message: I made a post on the Globalization page mentioning our article and that we are welcoming all and any help!      
Sandere0 (talk) 12:36, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Outside Help 

message: Some points on sentences that need to be reworked:
* "This early form of state interaction comes from the idea of European Hegemony." - unreferenced. What early state? Does it come from the idea, of from the European Hegemony? What is European Hegemony? When you introduce such terms, they should be explained and/or linked (preferably, both)
-European Hegemony has briefly been described. Should I add more?
Bfowler513 (talk) 20:18, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some spotchecks 

message: Hey guys I rearranged the sections and created headings for what I think are some of the main points linked to our topic. Please feel free to add more to sections that look like they need more and if you find that another heading is a better suit for the topic. I am basically done with the emergence of archaic globalization and the different factors that drove it. I will still be adding more but the next phases need to be developed. Hope everybody is making out okay, can't wait to see the changes made later on tonight!
Bfowler513 (talk) 20:27, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sections 

message: Is the reference of this section "Before European Hegemony"? It needs a citation but I did not want to put the wrong source 
Ebw7 (talk) 01:05, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: World Systems Theory

message: Okay, so our posts are being posted hours ahead of the actual times we're putting them up.  This isn't so good, He's going to assume we're posting things late and won't give us credit!Sandere0 (talk) 02:17, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: If you are talking about me, I've my preferences set to display our local time, not the default UTC. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  05:42, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wiki Time Stamps 

message: I'm nominating us now because I'm worried we're all going to think someone will do it and then it won't get done!  We still have over an hour before midnight, and they say there's a waiting list of these nominations so they won't get to ours immediately!
Sandere0 (talk) 02:22, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Except that your teacher, wonderful man that he is, has asked for volunteers to review the class's articles more quickly, because it's a time-sensitive assignment. So, I will be taking the review, but can wait to begin the review until ya'll think that you're finished. Dana boomer (talk) 17:34, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Good Article Nomination 

message: "pp" stands for pages (plural); for page (singular) you want "p" (again singular). -- Hoary (talk) 02:54, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: pp

message: I take an example, pretty much at random:
:The three principles of archaic globalization
:Alan Bayly claims that archaic globalization comprises three principles: Universalizing kingship, extension of religion, and the understandings of bodily health.
#Universalizing (universalized?) kingship in contradistinction to what? (Hunter-gatherer societies? City states? ...?) Is "find honor and prestige" a euphemism for pillage and conquest? (Etc)
#"Extension of religion" means nothing to me. I read on and see that it means pilgrimages. If that's all it means, then how about just "pilgrimages"? If it means something else, then what?
#"the understandings of bodily health" sounds very odd. (For one thing, why pluralize "understanding"?) I read on, and infer that it means something like the quest for medicinal substances. As the item above: If that's all it means, then (etc etc).
Incidentally, if the book reference is correct as far as it goes (and I don't know), then the book would seem to be:
:C. A. Bayly, The birth of the modern world, 1780-1914: Global connections and comparisons (Malden, Mass.: Blackwell, 2004; ).
That's from WorldCat, which of course might be wrong -- but I believe that in 2004 Blackwell was already well on the way to becoming part of Wiley. -- Hoary (talk) 03:11, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Archaic globalization is comparable to today's large scale globalization just on a smaller context. States began to interact and trade with others within close proximity as a way to acquire coveted goods that were considered a luxury. This trade lead to the spread of ideas such as religion, economy and politics. Actors became connected and aware of others in ways that had not been apparent.
Well, all sorts of things are comparable with all sorts of things. (You can't compare archaic globalization to my fridge or my need for a haircut, but it's obvious that anything called "globalization" will be comparable with anything else called "globalization".) Did states really trade with each other, or do you mean merchants and merchant organizations within these states? I'm puzzled by the notion of "an idea such as politics" (let alone economy); do you perhaps mean religious and political ideas? (But surely, early well documented spread of religions predated your subject matter by several centuries.) By "actors", do you mean states, merchants, producers, consumers, or what?
Really, each part of this article should be examined really hard by two people within your team who didn't write it. When that's done, a couple of you should independently go through print-outs with a red pen, and then carefully edit the result. All the best! -- Hoary (talk) 23:22, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

text: A good idea, although this can be achieved in a digital way, too. Don't hesitate to edit and comment on others' sections, and Hoary's comments above nicely show how the writing can be improved. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  23:29, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Much of it can be achieved on screen, yes; and let's not rush to waste trees. But I don't think I'm unusual in sometimes being more or less numbed by the screen. If I work on my prose to the point where it looks good on screen and then leave it a day and print it out on paper, I then typically see all kinds of duplications, inconsistencies, non-sequiturs, and flabby phrasing. -- Hoary (talk) 00:51, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

text: Thank you for the energetic and thoughtful response. Well, for what is/was This trade lead to the spread of ideas such as religion, economy and politics, how about This trade lead to the spread of religious, economic and political ideas? (NB this is a guess. I am not a historian and I am sorry to say that I am ignorant about this matter.) -- Hoary (talk) 12:23, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Needs more work, chaps

message: What is everybody working on? I see very little being added to the sections we have already. This needs to be done ASAP so whatever you are working on please add to the article as soon as you can or if you seem to be having trouble finding more information or resources please ask other group members for suggestions. Aside from Proto and Modern globalization that Rachel is working on what else is everybody up to? I will be fine tuning my sections in the beginning as well as the world system theory in terms of archaic globalization. If anybody has any suggestions to make any section better please do not hesitate to add to our talk page.  
Bfowler513 (talk) 14:52, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I recommend you (by you I mean all the editors here) think of the article, rather than one "own's" section. Wikipedia actively suggests this (see WP:OWN); we don't own articles or sections, we work on all of them. So if you think some sections need help, be bold and improve them. Grading is done on the individual and group basis, not on a section basis. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  18:05, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Headlines 

message: Does anybody know how to add a picture if it is saved on your computer and not on the internet? Is it even possible? Or if anybody can find the Pax Mongolica Different regional systems  picture. 
Bfowler513 (talk) 02:10, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: If you want to upload an image, the Special:Upload links a number of guides, including this video tutorial (as does our wiki syllabus). I hope this is what you are looking for, --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  05:41, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

text: What Piotrus said. But also: NB that concern about copyright (no matter how silly you or I may find this concern) always trumps common sense, etc. Please take any matter of copyright extremely seriously. That's the bad news. The good news is that Wikimedia Commons (here) has an enormous amount of images that you can use without any worry about copyright. Finding what you want within Commons isn't always easy; if you don't find what you want within 5 minutes, extend this to 30 minutes. You'll probably find this less frustrating than your first attempts to upload new material. -- Hoary (talk) 12:31, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed. See Wikipedia:Finding images tutorial guide, and my comments to Erik about copyright images. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk  16:28, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Picture 

message: The sections expansion of long distance trade, proto globalization, modern globalization, the three principles of archaic globalization and major trade routes can all be expanded upon or edited. Since everybody seems to be having trouble coming up with more information this should allow you know where to look specifically and where to add information.
Bfowler513 (talk) 16:35, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sections that need more info/editing