Talk:Belle and Sebastian

message: I'm hearing from musical historian that B&S are reminisent of Fairport Convention, is this true? --ConradKilroy 21:01, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Some of their folkier stuff could possibly be compared to FC. I dunno though; FC often had pretty intricate arrangements, and sounded a lot like traditional English folk music, which is a sound that B&S haven't explored very much. I'd say the comparison is a little dubious. For sure, though, nobody in the band has the pipes of Richard Thompson. ;) wilhelm 15:43, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comparision confirmation 

message: Editing in Simple Minds to the list of Scottish bands
Hey, Tokerboy: Tigermilk, If You're Feeling Sinister, Lazy Line Painter Jane, Dog on Wheels, and Legal Man all say and. Danny
P.S. Storytelling too.
:If it's official, go ahead and move it back, though I wouldn't trust album covers alone necessarily.  I capriciously move bands to the ampersand in order to have a standard and because most bands don't have an official method of writing it -- if this is an exception, I have no problems with it being at Belle and Sebastian. Tokerboy
::It's not official, other albums do use the ampersand. I just wonder what people would be more likely to look up. Danny
:::I dunno--that's why I always make a redirect.  Really it doesn't matter as long as one leads to another, it's just nice to have a community standard to minimize the use of redirects as much as possible. The exact methods of writing groups like Guns n Roses, Bone-Thugz-N-Harmony, etc, etc are many and varied, and have a tendency to spawn multiple, competing articles unless it is nipped in the bud with the judicious and wise use of redirect pages.  Tokerboy
*Tigermilk - And
*If You're Feeling Sinister - And
*Dog On Wheels - &
*Lazy Line Painter Jane - And
*The Boy With The Arab Strap - &
*Modern Rock Song - And
*Fold Your Hands Child - &
*Legan Man - And
*Jonathan David - &
*I'm Waking Up To Us - &
*Storytelling - And
*Fans Only DVD - &
*Step Into My Office - And
*Dear Catastrophe Waitress - &
*I'm A Cuckoo - And
*Books - And
*Push Barman - And
*If You're Feeling Sinsiter (live) - &
*The Life Persuit - And
That's 11 'And's and 8 '&'s, obviously not enough to make a decision either way so I think it would be best to follow the Wikipedia guidelines and move it back to Belle & Sebastian.
"Unless you know otherwise, the word and in band names is always an ampersand (&), as in Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers, Jan & Dean, Richard Hell & the Voidoids"
:From the official website: A. Whichever looks better in any situation is right. For my iPod I went for ampersands all the way, cos I like them. Sarah - 07/10/05 http://www.belleandsebastian.com/qasearchk.php?searchterm=ampersand
::So the band are not fussed whichever is used, therefore the Wiki standards should be used. Is that correct? --SaltyWater 01:12, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree. Just as their website is inconsistent, Newsbank (UK and world newspaper archive) produces 102 pages of results for "Belle and Sebastian", 63 pages for "Belle & Sebastian", so clearly both are acceptable. Go, then, with the Wikipedia guideline: & Tearlach 05:14, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: The Wikipedia guideline (which itself differs from reality; see Jan nad Dean; image on Tom Petty) says unles syou know differnt. In this case, we do. Andy Mabbett 09:10, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Um, no we don't - that was just proved. B&S allow either, and the WP standard is &. Folkor 19:00, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Where are you guys getting the idea that the Wikipedia guideline is to use the ampersand? There's nothing written about the ampersand on Wikipedia:Naming conventions (music). —Lowellian (reply) 13:00, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  And Vs. & 

message: Are we drawing a distinction between singles and eps, and if so, what exactly is the distinction?  Is it a single if its title matches the title of one of the songs?  Or is it based on track count (<=3; >=4)? kevinb9n
I've edited so that records where the record title matches the title of the first track are listed as singles, and other records which were eligible to appear in the singles chart are listed as EPs.  Initially (ie, up to and including This Is Just A Modern Rock Song), all the band's singles and EPs had four tracks; they changed to three when the UK singles chart stopped including records with more than three different tracks. SleepyCaitlin
:There's an inconsistency, though. If you go to the wikipedia entries for what are called their singles in this article, (Jonathan David, Legal Man, etc.) they are listed as being EPs there.
:I'd say Legal Man and all afterwards are singles (except Books). --SaltyWater 19:26, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  Singles or EPs? 

message: I was surprised to see that the entry had no reference to Belle & Sebastian's U.S. involvement with Matador Records, so I added the info as a parenthetical aside next to the info about the move from Jeepster to Rough Trade. I also added info about Storytelling and Belle & Sebastian references on U.S. TV shows as evidence of the band's growing influence and fame on American shores. Andrewjnyc 19:12, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Matador cite + trivia added 

message: Why do people keep reverting the band's lead-in to say just pop or indie instead of twee pop? Twee pop is the most accurate representation I can think of for the band, and it's been that way in this article for as long as I can remember. If someone could present some actual arguments as to why the band isn't twee, that'd be great. Otherwise I'll just keep reverting people's edits. Folkor 09:05, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think that Belle and Sebastian should be considered as twee, like you said. I think Indie rock is a lot more appropriate label for them. 71.105.192.51 (talk) 04:22, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Twee pop vs. Indie vs. Pop 

message: Someone keeps adding something saying B&S are "geek rock". What a load of bullshit. I think its fair to remove any future edits as such. Notice that B&S don't actually fit into the description on the geek rock article. SaltyWater 23:15, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I had noticed that.  I wonder what a "sexually muddled" sound is like?  --ajn (talk) 23:18, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Geek rock" 

message: Intention is to merge these to :Category:Belle & Sebastian albums.
People should make their thoughts known on the Wikipedia:Categories for deletion page (search the page for it, it isn't directly linked). --DaveG12345 01:28, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: [[:Category:Belle & Sebastian releases]] up for CfD

message: I think the History section is getting a little unwieldy and should be split into subsections.  It would go pretty comfortably into
* Formation and Rise to Notoriety (formation through 3...6...9)
* Continued Success on Jeepster (Arab Strap through Campbell's departure)
* Rough Trade Period (Dear Catastrophe Waitress till now).
Yes?  No?  Other organization schemes?
3 days later: I'll take that silence as agreement, so I'm just going to go ahead and divide it up.
Dan Slimmon 22:50, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Splitting up History 

message: I'm the one who added the "Cas(s)aco Marron" single info... and yet I'm confused.  The cover of the single spells it with one S, and while I don't have the "LateNightTales" CD case handy, I believe that does too.  And yet I'm pretty sure the original song is rightly spelled with two S's; B&S/Azuli just messed up.  Which spelling should we be using?
Charolastra charolo 05:01, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: LateNightTales spells it with two S's.71.171.201.127 06:20, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cas(s)aco Marron 

message: Justification for whether they should be characterised x or y. whats that got to do with their 12 year career and influence ?
The intro article should sum up what they've done, impact, how they've changed,  ? 
By the way. not that it matters but audio galaxy classify them as 
Folk Rock, Indie Rock, Chamber Pop, Indie Pop, Modern Rock...not just chamber pop. Jem 13:44, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: My thoughts exactly --sparkl!sm  talk 22:45, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  This is a very odd intro to the article 

message: :Image:BelleAndSebastianLazyLinePainterJaneBoxset.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:BelleAndSebastianLazyLinePainterJaneBoxset.jpg

message: :Image:Dearcatastrophecover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Dearcatastrophecover.jpg

message: :Image:FoldYourHandsChildCover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:FoldYourHandsChildCover.jpg

message: Why have it in the intro and the box?? 147.136.249.101 03:08, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Member list 

message: The use of images not in compliance with our fair-use criteria or our policy on nonfree content is not appropriate, and the images have been removed.  Please do not restore them.  -- Merope 18:37, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The image on the cover illustrates the text in the article about the artist and album, and does not serve a merely decorative purpose. Therefore, Wikipedia:Non-free content criteria #8 does not apply, as illustrating the album cover is significant. I don't think #2a applies either, as the album covers are only used once on this article. In my opinion, the album covers should remain up, but then again, I’m no expert on fair use. —Christopher Mann McKayuser talk 20:08, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fair use - Discography 

message: This article used to be really good--and quite thorough. What happened to it?71.171.201.127 06:17, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You can access the article's history here. —Christopher Mann McKaytalk 06:29, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: What Happened?

message: I believe that some reference should be made to their inclusion to the  Juno soundtrack, as it adds to their notability per WP:NMG. It was noted in the article until it was recently taken off by User:Faithlessthewonderboy, giving the reason of "...Their songs have been featured in many films, there's no reason to mention them all..." As a big fan of Belle and Sebastian, I can not recall "many films" that they have been featured in, but if I am wrong, please tell me...still, Juno is an immensely popular movie, Oscar nominated might I add, so i do believe that it is more than notable to add to the article...
I would also like to add that the previous version of the article that did have a mention of the Juno soundtrack did not mention both songs that were featured in the soundtrack...more specifically, it mentioned the song "Expectations" but did not mention "Piazza, New York Catcher." Fanofranz (talk) 13:52, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Belle and Sebastian do not need to prove their notability. Their music has featured in numerous films and tv series - if you look back in the history of this article you will find a list. If you want to include this information, a better place for it would be in the Juno (soundtrack) article or the article on the album the songs features in. Catchpole (talk) 15:19, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I just see it as necessary because it shows their inclusion into more popular American media, where the other films have been an obscure British TV series, High Fedility (although a popular movie, it also references around thirty other bands), or Storytelling, an arguably obscure movie whose only claims to fame is B&S creating the entire soundtrack for, see Storytelling (album), and being amongst a list of 1000 best movies compiled by the New York Times, 1000 is a huge number of movies i might add. It also continues the 2003-Present Section, to the effect that the only previous information about is the (fantastic) Colours Are Brighter album in 2006. This might lead some to believe that the band has been doing nothing since this album; which would be pretense as they have been featured in a "major indie" film. Fanofranz (talk) 13:25, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

text: It should definitely be mentioned.  You've only got to look at their last.fm page and see how being on the Juno soundtrack affected their most played songs, also Juno's soundtrack was a much noted aspect of it's acclaim and a more successful film than any other which had previously featured B&S songs. Petepetepetepete (talk) 17:35, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Juno Soundtrack 

message: In the history section of the article, it is mentioned that "It Could Have Been a Brilliant Career" has been hailed as one of the great songs of all time, and a source is referenced.  That's wonderful, but it's a red link, so how "great" is this song really?  It seems to be giving undue importance to this one source - could we get some perspective on this?  --Leviel (talk) 17:57, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Everything was a red link at some point. :) When I wrote that, I was just trying to include critical responses to B&S's work. Indeed, I've included every descent reference I've been able to find, positive and negative. The trouble is, B&S being the critical darlings they are, there aren't very many negative reviews out there, which leads to the article seeming a bit overtly-positive. :) faithless (speak) 19:02, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

text: First, saying 'listen' like that can be taken the wrong way. I'm sure you didn't mean anything by it, but just keep in mind the tone you use when talking to other editors. Second, someone describing the song as one of the greatest of all time is the definition of 'hailing.' Third, when one considers the millions (billions?) of songs that have been recorded throughout history, a list of 1001 is quite exclusive. faithless (speak) 01:11, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

text: Wikifhein - You make a valid point, though I disagree. It's important to look at the context of the sentence; the section discusses the period of B&S's career wherein they started garnering increased popular and critical acclaim. During this time, a noteworthy music journalist wrote about a piece the band recorded, calling it one of the greatest songs ever. I can't understand how anyone could say that isn't relevant. Trefalcon - your assessment would be absolutely correct if it were just some random guy. If I wrote it (which I wouldn't, I don't particularly care for the song), it wouldn't be noteworthy. Again, what makes it noteworthy is who said it. faithless (speak) 01:09, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "[[It Could Have Been a Brilliant Career]]" 

message: A IP user from 76.172.27.37 added to the Albums section of the page "New Album (2010)". I have taken this out. there is no indication in my opinion that a new album will be released in 2010. The Belle & Sebastian email newsletter that i recieved today said "Although the hard work on the next B&S record won’t begin until next year" This gives no indication of when they'll be finished. it only says they intend to start it next year. any other opinions. Should a note to this be added to the bottom of the article. Does not seem to be anything concrete Phil Nolte (talk) 20:08, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree; even if they finish the album next year (which seems likely if that's when they start on it) it may not be released until 2011. Nick-D (talk) 07:49, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: New Album

message: Since the new album name has been revealed, I was just curious as to how people would refer to it on Wikipedia. From Stuart Murdoch's official statement on the Belle & Sebastian website, it seems that the actual name of the album is Belle & Sebastian Write About Love - including the band's name - as opposed to simply Write About Love. Since the references regarding the naming of the album (coming from B&S themselves, in fact) all include the band's name in the title, I have changed instances of Write About Love to Belle & Sebastian Write About Love.
Whenbongoscollide (talk) 11:20, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''Write About Love'' vs ''B&S Write About Love'' 

message: I'm hearing it on the fm....wiki on upcoming album lists date as 9-25-10 -Matt B.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belle_%26_Sebastian_Write_About_Love
72.179.54.13 (talk) 15:30, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Didn't Write About Love drop? 

message: Surely the band name comes from the black and white French television serial, well known to British kids of the ages of the band members, as opposed to the, more obscure in the UK at least, original French book or later anime? I would be astonished if the cited sources actually state the source of the band name was the book or the anime rather than the serial. Mutt Lunker (talk) 00:05, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone should definitely look into it. I seem to remember one of the band members saying they watched it, specifically, which rules out the book. ★KEYS★ (talk) 20:12, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Band name 

message: Some explanation has to be provided in the body of the article for the 8 bands that appear in the "associated acts" section of the infobox.  How are these bands associated?  Have they performed together?  Do they share members?  Has a notable critic made a comparison of their sound or of one band's influence on the other?  Or, as I suspect, are these simply the opinions of fanboy editors? ---The Old JacobiteThe '45 02:46, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Associated acts 

message: The article describes If you're feeling sinister as "widely considered the band's masterpiece", while it terms The Boy with the Arab Strap as "often described by critics as the band's best album". This is unclear. I imagine that "widely considered" is stronger than "often described", and "masterpiece" is stronger than "the band's best album", but there's more than a little potential for confusion.Smitse (talk) 00:22, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Widely considered the band's masterpiece" vs. "often described by critics as the band's best album" 

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message: The opening paragraph currently contains the statement that the band have had 'limited commercial success' - this is clearly factually incorrect. As can be seen from their discography the band have had 4 top ten albums in the UK, 6 top 20 albums (one of which went top 20 in America). Among these releases are 4 Gold and two Silver discs. They've even had 7 top 40 'hits' in the UK. They have had considerable commercial success would be accurate. Vauxhall1964 (talk) 16:07, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Limited commercial success"? 

message: ...is the urban dictionary example of 'twee'.
Anyone agree? 78.149.209.149 (talk) 00:53, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Beatles of twee 

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