Talk:Lev Nussimbaum

message: There is a dispute between partisans of Lev Nussimbaum (chiefly Tom Reiss, author of the book on Nussimbaum, "The Orientalist") and partisans of Yusif Vazir Chamanzaminli as to whether Nussimbaum was the primary author of "Ali & Nino" and "Girl from the Golden Horn." Having not read the offline article in "Azerbaijan International" which Gizgalasi cites, I can't comment on the claims of plagiarism, but in the course of claiming plagiarism, the pro-Chamanzaminli editors have also adopted a strongly partisan tone and made several unproveable derogatory statements about Nussimbaum, for example:
(1) "Historians and literary critics, who knew these subjects well, discredited Essad Bey as a reliable source."
(2) "Essad Bey was not a best-seller - there is no proof. A few thousand copies does not make one a best-seller in mid-1930s in Germany"
and most significantly:
(3) " Lev Nussimbaum's "conversion" to Islam was purely opportunistic and economically driven. He did NOT practice Islam.""
This (3) is an unverifiable value judment: Nussimbaum performed a formal conversion to Islam (in fact, according to Tom Reiss' book, he converted twice) and no source says that he ever renounced his religion or claimed another religion afterwards. Calling his conversion "opportunistic" is impossible to prove without going back in time and looking into the mind of Lev Nussimbaum, and saying that he "did NOT (emphasis Gizgalasi's) practice Islam" is a value judgment assuming there is one correct interpretation of Islam, akin to a Protestant Christian saying that a Catholic or Mormon does "NOT practice Christianity." Drinking alcohol, as Nussimbaum also did according to Reiss' book, does not make him "not a Muslim" any more than Muhammad Ali Jinnah, who also drank alcohol for part of his life. In short, Nussimbaum's repeated statements that he was a Muslim must be taken at face value, as the converse (i.e. that he was not a Muslim or later renounced Islam) fails the test of being verifiable. 24.22.140.27 (talk) 23:34, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Lev Nussibaum/Kurban Said/Yusif Vazir Chamanzaminli Dispute

message: ==Lev Nussibaum/Kurban Said/Yusif Vazir Chamanzaminli Dispute==
There is a dispute between partisans of Lev Nussimbaum (chiefly Tom Reiss, author of the book on Nussimbaum, "The Orientalist") and partisans of Yusif Vazir Chamanzaminli as to whether Nussimbaum was the primary author of "Ali & Nino" and "Girl from the Golden Horn." Having not read the offline article in "Azerbaijan International" which Gizgalasi cites, I can't comment on the claims of plagiarism, but in the course of claiming plagiarism, the pro-Chamanzaminli editors have also adopted a strongly partisan tone and made several unproveable derogatory statements about Nussimbaum, for example:
(1) "Historians and literary critics, who knew these subjects well, discredited Essad Bey as a reliable source."
(2) "Essad Bey was not a best-seller - there is no proof. A few thousand copies does not make one a best-seller in mid-1930s in Germany"
and most significantly:
(3) " Lev Nussimbaum's "conversion" to Islam was purely opportunistic and economically driven. He did NOT practice Islam.""
This (3) is an unverifiable value judment: Nussimbaum performed a formal conversion to Islam (in fact, according to Tom Reiss' book, he converted twice) and no source says that he ever renounced his religion or claimed another religion afterwards. Calling his conversion "opportunistic" is impossible to prove without going back in time and looking into the mind of Lev Nussimbaum, and saying that he "did NOT (emphasis Gizgalasi's) practice Islam" is a value judgment assuming there is one correct interpretation of Islam, akin to a Protestant Christian saying that a Catholic or Mormon does "NOT practice Christianity." Drinking alcohol, as Nussimbaum also did according to Reiss' book, does not make him "not a Muslim" any more than Muhammad Ali Jinnah, who also drank alcohol for part of his life. In short, Nussimbaum's repeated statements that he was a Muslim must be taken at face value, as the converse (i.e. that he was not a Muslim or later renounced Islam) fails the test of being verifiable. 24.22.140.27 (talk) 23:34, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: ==

message: There is a dispute between partisans of Lev Nussimbaum (chiefly Tom Reiss, author of the book on Nussimbaum, "The Orientalist") and partisans of Yusif Vazir Chamanzaminli as to whether Nussimbaum was the primary author of "Ali & Nino" and "Girl from the Golden Horn." Having not read the offline article in "Azerbaijan International" which Gizgalasi cites, I can't comment on the claims of plagiarism, but in the course of claiming plagiarism, the pro-Chamanzaminli editors have also adopted a strongly partisan tone and made several unproveable derogatory statements about Nussimbaum, for example:
(1) "Historians and literary critics, who knew these subjects well, discredited Essad Bey as a reliable source."
(2) "Essad Bey was not a best-seller - there is no proof. A few thousand copies does not make one a best-seller in mid-1930s in Germany"
and most significantly:
(3) " Lev Nussimbaum's "conversion" to Islam was purely opportunistic and economically driven. He did NOT practice Islam.""
This (3) is an unverifiable value judment: Nussimbaum performed a formal conversion to Islam (in fact, according to Tom Reiss' book, he converted twice) and no source says that he ever renounced his religion or claimed another religion afterwards. Calling his conversion "opportunistic" is impossible to prove without going back in time and looking into the mind of Lev Nussimbaum, and saying that he "did NOT (emphasis Gizgalasi's) practice Islam" is a value judgment assuming there is one correct interpretation of Islam, akin to a Protestant Christian saying that a Catholic or Mormon does "NOT practice Christianity." Drinking alcohol, as Nussimbaum also did according to Reiss' book, does not make him "not a Muslim" any more than Muhammad Ali Jinnah, who also drank alcohol for part of his life. In short, Nussimbaum's repeated statements that he was a Muslim must be taken at face value, as the converse (i.e. that he was not a Muslim or later renounced Islam) fails the test of being verifiable. 24.22.140.27 (talk) 23:34, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Lev Nussibaum/Kurban Said/Yusif Vazir Chamanzaminli Dispute

message: I made some major additions to this, trying for a bit more clarity on his (very right-wing) politics. I gave a reference that should cover pretty much everything I added. I notice that previously there were no references cited. Everything here looks accurate to me -- I'm not doubting any of it -- but it would be good to indicate where it came from. It feels like most of it came from a publisher's blurb or a review of  Reiss's book, rather than from the book itself, is that correct? -- Jmabel | Talk
That's more or less correct as far as my contributions at least.  The book's promotional website also has some fairly extensive information.  I've tried to back up what I could from multiple sources, but no I unfortunately haven't actualy read the biography itself.  Wiccan Quagga
Kurban Said was converted to islam  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.217.139.13 (talk) 21:39, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: References

message: This page Lev Nussimbaum is an alias from Kurban Said as well as Essad Bey. 
We have just carried out six years of research on this topic from 2004 to 2010 and have studied documents in 10 languages - Azeri, Russian, English, German, French, Italian, Turkish, Persian, Georgian and Swedish. Our research is published in a triple issue of the magazine Azerbaijan International, Vol. 15:2-4, which 364 pages and available in English as well as Azeri. 
We agree that Essad Bey can alias into Lev Nussimbaum. But we disagree that Kurban Said should Alias into Lev Nussimbaum. 
It needs its own entry. Totally separate where various points of view could be presented. 
Kurban Said is a pseudonym. Two novels were published under this name. "Ali and Nino" (1937) and "Girl from the Golden Horn" (1938) both first published in Vienna in the German language. 
Yes, it is true that Essad Bey used the name Kurban Said when he wrote a diary - which ended up being a fictionalized account of his life which includes vicious retaliatory account against his ex-wife Erika Loewendahl. 
But our conclusions after serious deep study in archives in Azerbaijan especially - Azerbaijan Republic State History Archives and Institute of Manuscripts indicate that Yusif Vazir Chamanzaminli is the core writer of these two novels which were published. We are convinced that this pseudonym KURBAN SAID - actually belongs to Chamanzaminli and is likely to have been created by him and not Essad Bey.
And that Essad Bey / Lev Nussimbaum gained access to the manuscripts (like he did with various other books - 16 were published under his name in 8 years). Furthermore, the name Kurban Said is meaningful to Yusif Vazir Chamanzaminli's life - but not to Essad Bey's life. 
See "Essad Bey as Core Author of Ali and Nino, Seven Reasons Why it Just Ain't So, in Azerbaijan International, Vol. 15:2-4, pp.180-217.
"Kurban (Gurban in Azeri) - means sacrifice. And even Yusif Vazir Chamanzaminly referred to himself as "gurban" because of his political assignment as an Ambassador to Turkey - when the Bolsheviks took power in Baku. For him to return to Baku, which he did in 1926, under those incredibly dangerous conditions when most government authorities had been killed - was truly "gurban" - Furthermore, YVC had even written a short story "Gurban" earlier in his literary career about a father who kills his son - as a sacrifice to the family's reputation. 
So we believe there is a very strong case to separate the ALIAS and allow KURBAN SAID to stand on its own and not automatically alias into  LEV NUSSIMBAUM. The name is a PSEUDONYM and the research that Tom Reiss  carried out in Azerbaijan was extremely superficial. Reiss claims that Lev Nussimbaum is Kurban Said but the archives do not support such claims. 
Reiss himself wrote that the Lev Nussimbaum was the least credible when it came to questions of self identity. And certainly the name of KURBAN SAID - is one of those identities in which Essad Bey should not be trusted. All his life Lev had written with the name ESSAD BEY. He even signed his FINAL WILL in 1941 - the year before he died (now kept in the RASCHER Fund of the Central Library of the University of Zurich) - ESSAD BEY, "also known as Lev Nussimbaum and Leo Nusenbaum." He did NOT include the name KURBAN SAID in his will. And the Kurban Said books came out in 1937 and 1938. And the "diary" was advertised in 1937 in a Kirschner book but was actually never published. 
To alias the term Kurban Said - into Lev Nussimbaum assumes that he is the writer of Ali and Nino and we have found so many reasons that link Yusif Vazir Chamanzaminli as the CORE writer of Ali and Nino. See "101 Reasons why Yusif Vazir Chamanzaminli is the Core Writer of Ali and Nino," in Azerbaijan International, Vol. 15:2-4, pp. 262-333.
Essad Bey's finger are in the novel - most evident in folkloric and legendary passages - and copied from previous books. See "Cut and Paste Author: Essad Bey's Fingerprints in Ali and Nino, Azerbaijan International, Vol. 15:2-4, pp. 230-251. 
So please, we need a separate entry for the term "Kurban Said." Thanks.
Gizgalasi (talk) 04:32, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  The name KURBAN SAID - needs its own entry and should NOT alias into Lev Nussimbaum