Talk:Seung-Hui Cho/Archive 7

message: Many people have cited Cho's lack of oral speaking skills as a reason why he was unable to fit in, but no one has addressed Cho's online activities.  Did Cho use e-mail and online chat software to socialize without speaking?  If so, what how did these non-oral social communication tools help him?  
There is one news article in the Washington Post that said Cho had a page on MySpace or Facebook, and that one girl in class "friended" him back after he friended her.  They had talked after class once before he friended her.  However, when she learned from the other girls what had happened in years past, then she deleted herself from his friend page.  More importantly, where did Cho get the idea to talk with girls after class and then try to sign up as their friends?  Was that friendly advice from a friend or friendly advice from a counselor? Matt605 12:08, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Speaking skills 

message: Smashing Pumpkins have been playing a new song called "Question Mark" in their live shows, which appears to be inspired by Cho Seung Hui.  Not sure how to incorporate it into the article though.  Here's a picture of the setlist. http://www.smashingpumpkins.com/photos_1716 Joe 23:37, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That would be trivia for this biography article. BTW, it's not the goal to add a music trivia section to include info about entertainers who were perhaps inspired by Cho, the spree killer (those two concepts in this case are unrelated). Try asking the editors of the Smashing Pumpkins article to see what they think about your proposal -- references to the group's music would be more appropriate there. →Lwalt ♦ talk 03:47, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Smashing Pumpkins

message: Since there are no experts that agree that Cho was influenced by the movie, I suggest that the picture that compares his welding the hammer with the scene from the movie be taken down.  WangKon936 02:56, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, in fact, I think the whole Oldboy speculation bit ought to be removed. It doesn't seem at all relevant, since it apparently was just a coincidence, and removing it would nicely take care of four of the (perhaps too) numerous references. Comments? Muad 20:10, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: How about a single sentence saying something along the lines of "A professor brought up the theory that one of the pictures Cho took with a hammer resembled the movie Oldboy, but he later rescinded his theory" or something simple along those lines. 72.200.27.179 05:38, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Connections to Oldboy 

message: There's a sentence fragment error in the section Relationship with professors: "After Roy notified the legal authorities about Cho's behavior, Roy urged Cho to seek counseling, but he never followed through with the request to her knowledge."
I assume that the intention is: "After Roy notified legal authorities about Cho's behavior, she urged Cho to seek counseling, but, to her knowledge, Cho never followed through with the request."
::. The sentence has been changed in the article to your suggested text. →Lwalt ♦ talk 00:43, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sentence Fragment 

message: There are far too many quotations in this article.  We should work to minimize or eliminate them and replace them with balanced prose that describes the situation in our own words.--SallyForth123 06:17, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too many quotations... 

message: On virtually all of the other language pages for "Seung-Hui Cho", the article is titled "Cho Seung-Hui". Should this be ratified, or left as it is? I already moved the Esperanto page, but didn't want to move any more unless I had received an "okay". --MosheA 03:16, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: During the early stages, the article's original name was "Cho Seung-Hui." If I remember the discussion correctly from that time, the article was renamed because of the "Americanized" style of name Cho preferred to use to refer to himself. You might want to go back and read the archived discussions and look at the links to the plays that Cho wrote (the cover page on one of the papers even shows Cho's name as "Seung Cho.") →Lwalt ♦ talk 14:54, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other Languages 

message: Evidence suggests that he may have rehearsed for the attack Source 1, Source 2. Please incorporate this into the article, if possible. BlueAg09 (Talk) 18:23, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Attack rehearsal

message: The beggining of the first paragraph says: "Seung-Hui Cho (January 18, 1984 – April 16, 2007) was a mass murderer".
Isn't that too vulgar? It wouldn't be better something like "Seung-Hui Cho was a student who killed/mass murdered....".
I mean, he wasn't always a mass murderer... It's like saying that he was a mass murderer in all of his life.
This was discussed (now in the archives).  The murders are what he was noted for.  He was not notable as a student.  If he'd won American Idol we wouldn't say he "was a student who won American Idol." Chromaone 23:17, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Seung-Hui Cho was a mass murderer 

message: I certainly don't object to the article.  I would remind people to keep in mind that notoriety and fame are what such individuals crave.  Headlines, made-for-TV movies, even Wikipedia entries splashing "WORST SHOOTING EVER!" serve to encourage copycats.  Please keep that in mind when editing articles about this type of thing.  The tone matters.Mzmadmike 03:43, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Food for Thought 

message: Today (Thurs 30 Aug), the BBC News website did an article of a report saying that the Virginia Tech response 'too slow'. Now, in this article, they call him "Cho Seung-hui", then I came on here, and he is "Seung-Hui Cho". At first I presumed you did that thing where you reverse the surname, like Presley Elvis (bad example, I know), but throughout the text, he is called his BBC first name, and WIKI surname.
So, which is right?
Thanks St91 08:54, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Read Ref #1 in the article. You're on summer time, while UTC does not account for daylight saving time. DHN 21:32, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The format of Cho's name was documented in a footnote to this article. See footnote 2. The reference is noted just after his name on the first line of the introduction to the article. →Lwalt ♦ talk 16:19, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Seung-hui Cho or Cho Seung-hui?

message: are we going to stick to facts here or are we going to lower the standards of wikipedia by making it some kind of teenage chat room. people who dont know the law are frequently confused about what stalking actually is and misuse the word. wikipedia should not be a place for that since it's supposed to be an encyclopedia, not a high school locker room. this is the definition according to wiktionary. it's not the best, but still better than how it's been used in this article. "to (try to) follow or contact someone constantly, often resulting in harassment". i dont exactly see how this qualifies as stalking. "Cho frightened a female friend of Koch by writing on her door board a line from Shakespeare’s Romeo and Juliet, Act 2, scene II, in which Romeo laments to Juliet:". i also fail to see how this other verse in the article qualifies either. "Cho claimed to have sent an instant message online to the female student by AIM and found out where she lived on the campus." This definitely doesn't qualify as stalking by the legal definition or by any definition. they are both isolated incidents and there is no evidence that he had been doing this repeatedly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Doctordugihauser (talk • contribs) 
:Both of the girls felt threatened enough to contact the police. Nuff said. Abyssal leviathin 19:39, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have reviewed the various legal definitions of stalking, the loosest legal definition is in the United Kingdom - Staking is when a person contacts a victim at least twice in any medium and each time they cause fear, alarm or distress. Under UK law, Cho didn't stalk as it was not repeated. Additionally, neither girl felt that it was stalking anyhow, the first termed Cho's behavior (the incident when he said Hi to her) as "annoying" and the second girl was unconcerned until she was contacted by Andy Koch who told her to be scared - see below. But that said, wiki reflects what is said in the media, and it is written that it was staking. I agree that the word has been misused. Diamonddavej 16:07, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: British law hasn't been applied in Virginia for over 200 years.  But I get what you are meaning. Where I am stalking is "unwarranted", meaning the stalker must have been informed their advances are unwelcome.  So you are only guilty of stalking on the second and subsequent attempt to communicate. Kransky 11:11, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  stalking 

message: :Image:Cho Seung-hui 3.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot 05:25, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Cho Seung-hui 3.jpg

message: :Image:Cho Seung-hui NBC.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Cho Seung-hui NBC.jpg

message: :Image:ChoSeungHuiNBC1.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 05:28, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:ChoSeungHuiNBC1.jpg

message: :Image:ChoSh.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 05:28, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:ChoSh.jpg

message: Citation or evidence is needed to back up this whole paragraph, introduced at the top of the article:
(QUOTE)In the aftermath of the Virginia Tech shootings, Timothy Kaine, governor of the Commonwealth of Virginia, convened a panel consisting of various officials and experts to investigate and examine the response and handling of issues related to the Virginia Tech shootings. The panel released its final report in August 2007. The report devoted more than 30 pages to detailing Cho's troubled history. It criticized numerous failures — by school administrators, educators, and mental health professionals who came into contact with Cho during his college years but failed to notice his deteriorating condition and help him. The report also criticized misinterpretations of privacy laws and gaps in Virginia's mental health system and gun laws. It also faulted Virginia Tech administrators for failing to take immediate action after the first shootings.(QUOTE)
88.105.126.105 23:18, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citation needed 

message: Following the given link to the texts of Richard McBeef and Mr. Brownstone leads to AOL 'page not found'.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.69.76.226 (talk) 06:22, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link to texts of plays no longer works. 

message: This article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force. I believe the article currently meets the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. The article history has been updated to reflect this review. Regards, Ruslik 10:51, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: GA Sweeps (kept)

message: In the last edit to this page, I simply added a missing period at the end of paragraph 2. No other edits made.   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.36.99.148 (talk) 06:52, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Minor edit 

message: Seung Hui Cho never became an U.S citizen. So, why an user adds Cho to Americans categories like American mass murderers or Korean Americans if he never became an U.S citizen??Frankedjsjs (talk) 16:39, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cho's nationality 

message: If one of you registered users doesn't delete that sentence comparing Richard McBeef to Hamlet, then we have failed as a species. 72.40.101.195 07:48, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hamlet??? 

message: Someone please incorporate into the article the 50 minutes of speech therapy per month he received in high school and his therapist: From Disturbed High Schooler to College Killer by Daniel GoldenXandiar 05:14, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Special Education Plan at Westfield High for Selective Mutism 

message: I have looked up what little I can on google about Cho and I see pics of him in a USMC uniform and people asking if he was in the military.  Does anyone know if this is valid or just a rumor?  If it is confirmed it should be added to the article.  If it is debunked, then nevermind.Feral Mind (talk) 04:14, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Someone tried to add that photo last year, when the story was still fever-hot.  The photo was of two Marines wearing balaclavas which left only the eye-regions of their faces visible.  One of them was Asian and -- of course -- had a military-style haircut, and so various Internet sages reasoned that the individual depicted must therefore be Seung-Hui Cho.  Never mind that the name tape on the Marine's MCCUU blouse reads Hu or that there are a hell of a lot of Asian-Americans serving in the military, most of whom (amongst the males, at least) would be sporting military-style haircuts.  I would consider the matter debunked.  --Dynaflow babble 21:54, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Marines? 

message: I think we need a section noting that Cho was an atheist.  If he was Christian, then we should put he was Christian.  If he was Muslim, then we should put he was Muslim.  Regardless of what he believed, this should be included and then we'll let the reader determine its influence.  Noting a massacre by a radical Christian or a radical Muslim is just as necessary as noting a massacre by a radical secularist. -Brad Kgj08 (talk) 11:18, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You have reliable sources stating that Cho was a "radical secularist?"  --ElKevbo (talk) 11:30, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

text: Hell, do you have reliable sources stating that he was an atheist?  In any event, noting the religious beliefs of spree killers is unnecessary and arguably violates WP:NPOV, unless there are reliable sources indicating that those religious beliefs played a role in the killer's decision-making process (e.g., suicide bombers motivated by religious beliefs, or the start of the Waco seige, where the Branch-Davidian religious beliefs played a major role in the decision to respond to the search warrant with gunfire).  To my knowledge, there's no indication that Cho's religious beliefs, or lack thereof, played any role in the decision to go through with the assault.  Rdfox 76 (talk) 15:49, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: OTOH, even if it didn't motivate him, it might be worth mentioning in an existing section(with a good reference). For example, if he sang in his 'church' choir(though I' NOT claming he did so!), then it would be good to mention this when speaking about his mutism.Kairos (talk) 05:15, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, he supposedly went to church, but nothing in Christianity encourages believers to do violence.--69.234.205.106 (talk) 14:53, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  New Section 

message: In the little fact file box with his photo, DOB, DOD, etc on the right, directly beneath his date of death and location, it states it was Suicide. I havent seen a cause of death on any other persons biography page included in this section, is it necessary to include it here? Reading the article will clearly explain what happened. Popher 00:41, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Would you rather have us write, became an hero?--Tomglima 21:26, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think that's at all what User:Popher is implying.  And I agree with them.  There's a field in the  infobox for "cause of death", but virtually no other biographical infoboxes have it.  There is, for example, no "suicide" in the infobox of famous suicides like Ernest Hemingway, Kurt Cobain, Budd Dwyer.  Ford MF 14:54, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That is because the cause of death cannot be suicide. Cause of death, in this case, would be gunshot wound to the head. Similarly, for someone who commits suicide by throwing himself out of a window, the cause of death would be polytraumatism, head trauma, internal bleeding, or something like that. Suicide is not a cause of death. –W2bh (talk) 18:44, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Necessary to include "Suicide" 

message: I reverted the re-addition of the "Virginia Tech alumnus" category, as alumnus and alumna refer specifically to graduates of a college or university, not just people who attended classes there.  Cho died before graduating and therefore is not an alumnus at all.  Ford MF (talk) 01:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/alumnus  --Dynaflow babble 04:33, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Alumnus" 

message: This doesn't talk about his romantic relationships. Was he a virgin? Did he have a girlfriend ever and if so what did these girls have to say about him?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.74.219.28 (talk) 09:49, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Cho never had a girlfriend, dated and he never had a close friend. At home he only spoke to his sister. His father was authoritarian and his mother withdrawn. His well intentioned premier attempts at creating social relationships in Nov and Dec 2005 led to punitive action by campus police and ultimately led to his threat of suicide on 13th Dec 2005, for which he was hospitalized. This further isolated him. His hate filled speech dwelt on the deceitfulness, materialism and hedonism of other students, thus it seems, he was angry and jealous at the socially adept. --Diamonddavej (talk) 14:23, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Love life 

message: In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :) 
* "choMotherChurch" :
** Lewis, B. (2007, May 1). Isolation defined Cho's senior year: Beseeched by mother, N. Va. church offered to purge "demonic power." The Washington Post. Retrieved May 5, 2007
** Lewis, B. (2007, May 1). Isolation defined Cho's senior year: Beseeched by mother, N. Va. church offered to purge "demonic power." The Washington Post. Retrieved May 6, 2007
* "firstgun" :
** 
** 
"Investigators also say Cho practiced shooting at a firing range in Roanoke, about 40 miles from the campus, in mid-March."<ref>
DumZiBoT (talk) 21:23, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bot report : Found duplicate references ! 

message: The point to many, many shootings, and this one is no exception, is for the murderer to become famous. 
Seung-Hui Cho wanted to be famous. The recent shooting in a shopping mall, that young man wanted fame. Research other shootings, I guarantee that you will find a desire for fame in many of the shooters. 
By publicizing the murders to the extent that we do, we are merely saying to a lonely, possibly bullied, unknown person, "Look. You want everyone to know who you are? You want to be on the news? You want a Wikipedia article that is longer than Brad Pitt's? Shoot up a school, and voila. There you go." Many teens play copycat, shooting their own schools after seeing the fame it brought to other murders. 
I understand that there is a debate to the length of the article here, but I don't believe that we should continue this mad cycle of giving disturbed people a motive for murdering.
Please, let's delete this article.
-Rose
Sirprizeme13 (talk) 02:44, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This is not the forum for such discussions.  See WP:AFD. Also, somehow...just somehow...I doubt that getting a Wiki article is motivation for people who are already mentally ill to commit murder.  You should be looking at the illness as the direct cause. --Strothra (talk) 02:51, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

text: Did this really need its own heading? Y'know, the section above this is about the exact same thing, right? And anyway, I think that it's stupid to try to hold Wikipedia accountable for this kind of thing. Even if we erased every article related to school shootings, they would still happen, because the causes would still be there. The bullying in schools, untreated mental illness, easy access to guns, etc, etc, etc. And using your logic, why don't we remove all criminology related articles? What if reading Drive-by shooting reminds a reader how much he hates members of a rival gang? What if reading about bank robberies makes an unstable teen yearn for a quick way to get rich? What if reading about the Zodiac killer gives some psycho a new hero and role model? Why don't we remove articles on weapons? That way nobody will be impressed enough by their destructive capabilities to go out and get them? Why don't we erase all of Wikipedia? That way nobody could possibly get any bad ideas here. Abyssal leviathin (talk) 23:36, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  This Article SHould be Removed 

message: "According to Kim Gyeong-won, who first met Cho in the fifth grade and took classes with him,[16] Cho finished the three-year program at Poplar Tree Elementary School in one and a half years. "  
What three year program?  ESL?  A tad bit more context, pulease!  :)  Qb | your 2 cents 15:59, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Helloooo!?  This is still messed up, folks.  Qb | your 2 cents 09:19, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, maybe the following sheds a little bit of light on the subject:  Many of the teachers encouraged foreign students at an English as a second language class by pointing to Cho’s achievements, Kim said. “Teachers said Seung-hui finished the three-year program in a year and a half, and they used him as an exemplary model for other students.” Source (Lord Gøn (talk) 13:18, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Context Issue 

message: The paragraph beginning 'According to CBS News' cites the 2002 U.S. Secret Service study (the Safe School Initiative) as indicating that Cho Seung-Hui's status as a loner fit the shooter profile. While CBS News may have reported this, the study specifically stated that there was no profile and that it was dangerous to suggest there was a profile of school shooters. Furthermore, it stated that people described as loners comprise a minority of school shooters. I think something should be amended to this section detailing CBS News misrepresentation of this study or have the reference removed entirely.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.26.94.144 (talk) 10:16, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  The U.S. Secret Service Study 

message: Any idea how this made it into the article?
:
I wasn't able to look far enough into the history to find the missing url, so I removed the ref. Googling the title didn't do much good either. — CharlotteWebb 21:42, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Weirdness

message: For those of you actively involved with this article, you might be interested in reading this scholarly article that attempts to point toward an explanation of the tragedy.  In short, it explains that Cho's character/mental illness alone does not adequately explain why he murdered, but rather, it was a combination if his character and interactions with Virginia Tech professors and other staff that pushed him over the edge.  It explains how mobbing by professors, students and other authority figures contributed to this tragedy.  Perhaps a mention of this point of view would bring more balance to the article.  LinguistAtLarge  04:51, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Very well written and warrants inclusion. Sentriclecub (talk) 08:58, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mobbing and the Virginia Tech massacre 

message: http://collegiatetimes.com/cms/site/april16_documents.php
A lot to sift through, but appears to me to suggest a number of revisions and additions to our article.
Chromaone (talk) 05:26, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Wow, what incredibly good timing.  I've always felt a calling to help out this article.  The documents are irrefutable evidence that he had a mental illness, not a mass murderer.  One of the links said VT released 13,700 pages?  The documents I combed through only mention about 150 pages per document but there only appears to be 30 documents.  I will get started in a few days and I hope the people camping this article have healed and moved on. If only he had gotten the right help a few months before the end commenced.  There are still others like him, the "loner profile" with anger management problems.  Also, I have bookmarked on another computer three great pubmed reports that I tabbed for a rainy day.  Two of them are about autism spectrum disorders and the family of related mental illnesses (e.g. selective mutism). Sentriclecub (talk) 08:47, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: BTW, people with mental illnesses can still be mass murderers.  Tempshill (talk) 03:42, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  New source documents published 

message: If known (through digital timestamps on the source materials presumably), the article should state when he took the photos and videos that he sent to NBC.  Would shed some more light on the level and timing of preparation.  Tempshill (talk) 03:42, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: When did he make the tapes?

message: Some say so: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Seung-Hui+Cho+convert+Islam&btnG=Google+Search
Can anyone confirm or disprove it?
::Original research, since this represents theory and speculation of motive. →Lwalt ♦ talk 08:02, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: How is it original research?  The speculation is not from a Wiki editor, but from an outside source.  It appears speculative at present, but it's worth tracking.Mzmadmike 03:39, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I haven't had a heartier laugh in quite some time.  Not only is this speculation pure sensationalized fiction, but it smacks of an extreme anti-Muslim bigotry by many of the people who would waste such time in such pointless speculation.  For anyone wondering how such an extreme anti-Muslim piece of bigotry could find its way into here of all places, it's due to Cho spelling "Ishmael" (son of Abraham in the Bible) as as the more Arabic (or possibly misspelled) form of "Ismael," who is still a character of Judaism and Christianity in addition to Islam.  Considering that Cho actually signed one of his letters with "Ismael-AX," this leads me to believe this might have been an online gamertag instead.  I myself have seen both "Ismael" and "Ishmael" used as names in the online game "World of Warcraft," for instance.  If anything, this speculation seems meaningless to me and if anything, tells me that some people here have a rather unhealthy fixation with Muslims.Shabeki 23:07, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it's probably a literary reference from Moby Dick ("Call me Ishmael"). Note that Cho was an English Major. Also, he signed his name "A. Ishamel", which is significant because the other main character in Moby Dick was an obsessive captain called Ahab. This is original research, of course, but it's just as valid as the "Muslim" theory given above.125.240.61.2 (talk) 04:59, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Was Seung-Hui Cho a convert to Islam? 

message: =Motive=
Cho and one of his victims, Ross Alameddine, attended the same English class during Autumn 2006. Emily revealed to many friends on campus that Seung-Hui Cho possessed a tail which was not removed at the time of his birth; the ensuing embarrassment was another cause leading towards the sociopathic murderous rampage. According to classmates enrolled in that class, including Justin Keyser, Alameddine tried to communicate with Cho with no success.[91]
Okay, who on Earth put in the sentence suggesting that Seung-Hui's being bullied because he once "had a tail"?
I read on the article on citation 91 and there is no mention of having a tail attached to Mr Cho or how was that funny on someone who has selective mutism.
88.105.126.105 23:09, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I, for one, have heard this-- that Cho had a congenital deformity which resembled a tail.  i was not the one who put it up there, but i can attest to having heard this.  Skiendog (talk) 18:41, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Whether this is true or not, per Wikipedia:Verifiability, if it can't be cited, it doesn't exist.  Hearsay is inadmissible. --Dynaflow babble 05:39, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Seung-Hui had a tail"???? 

message: There should be links to them since I can't find them with Google due to so many articles where they are mentioned.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.118.183.18 (talk) 13:50, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cho's writings 

message: The article reads: "The package, addressed from "A. Ishmael" as seen on an image of the USPS Express Mail envelope (incorrectly printed as "Ismail" by The New York Times" Do we have this image? what citation do we have to back up the New York Times was incorrect? Padillah (talk) 20:12, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  What citation do we have for the tapes address? 

message: How long did it take for the Eric Harris & Dylan Klebold suicide pictures to be made public, and has anything been done or will be done with Seung-Hui Cho? 67.5.159.178 02:16, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: He was just wondering since Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold's were made public. That's all. Punkymonkey987 (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 19:56, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Police death photos? 

message: There seems to be a controversy over including the Cho article in categories that include the word "American."  The disagreement appears to revolve around the question of how American one must be before we can label him or her "American."  One one side is the opinion that you must be a de jure US citizen  before you are properly qualified to call yourself an American; either you're in or you're out, and citizenship is the dividing line.  On the other side of the great divide are those who are willing to weigh various factors (such as where one grew up, what culture/subculture one identifies with, primary language, country of current and anticipated future legal residency, etc.) and concede that a particular non-citizen might be considered "American enough" to fit into the fuzzy category, "American," or in this instance, "Korean American."
I subscribe to the latter view,  seems to subscribe to the former, and in this case, our conclusions are mutually exclusive.  Luckily, this disagreement is over article categories, whose primary purpose to help readers find articles on related topics.  Readers are not looking for demonstrations of perfect, formal-logic consistency when they make use of the categories; they're looking for more articles.  That frees us from any sort of felt obligation to use one designation or the other and instead include ...  both.  As long as it is conceivable that a decent subset of readers will find a categorization germane and useful, there's no reason not to include it.  
Cho's article can thus be usefully indexed to the "South Koreans" and "Korean Americans" categories, and so I have put both categories in.  The "American Spree Killers" cat is also germane and useful for category surfers, degree-of-Americanness quibbles aside, because the article is about the perpetrator of an American spree killing, and it is the kind of article a reader might reasonably expect to find in that category.  --Dynaflow babble 03:45, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Obviously, I concur with Dynaflow. A lot of political battles have been fought in the U.S.A. over what is or is not "American", from the :Alien and Sedition Acts to the present day. Based on my personal observations, it seems obvious that a kid who's lived here and gone to school here since he was 8 years old is going to be pretty darned Americanized, regardless of his citizenship status. --Orange Mike  |  Talk 15:52, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Sounds like OR to me.  Do the reliable sources say that the subject is American or Korean American?  --ElKevbo (talk) 15:54, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Categories and Cho's "Americanness" 

message: one must be tried and convicted of a crime before one is considered a criminal --emerson7 17:03, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Dying in the commission of a criminal act does not absolve one of the moral responsibility of having perpetrated it; it just keeps the authorities from punishing you for it.  The prima facie evidence that Seung-hui Cho killed a lot of people (a criminal act) is fairly incontrovertible.  Having committed a heinous crime (and having that be what one is primarily known for to posterity), would justify the use of the "criminal" infobox on the article.  On the technical, legal side, you can't libel the dead, so that aspect is not a concern.   is appropriate, both for the above basic reasons, and because it offers special fields/parameters (currently unused) that can be used to add information to the article better than the parameters in more generic userboxes can.  --Dynaflow babble 21:11, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  infobox 

message: I've taken a quick look at the article and I think its ready for Peer Review, in preparation for FA nomination. A few of the problems in the June 2007 nomination was that the lead was too short...everything was too short, it was unstable... I think that has all been addressed now. Since I'm not a frequent editor on this article, and have not been aware with recent discussions, talk amongst yourselves. I'm just leaving a suggestion, since the article has improved massively than the June 20, 2007 version that I just checked. --haha169 (talk) 04:11, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Making this article the featured article would be an outrage to all those affected by the massacre.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nicholas Weiner (talk • contribs) 18:48, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not Wikipedia's job to protect anybody's feelings. If the article is featured article quality, it's featured article quality. Abyssal (talk) 02:08, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: FA

message: http://abcnews.go.com/US/VATech/story?id=3071730&page=1
I think this should be included into Cho's biography, and am quite surprised that it wasn't. It would provide the reader with some insight into Cho's sexual history.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.174.117.6 (talk) 20:39, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: outside of tabloid trivia, it looks like Chastity Frye got her 15 min.  not sure what this would add to the article "one month before the VT shootings after eating a baloney sandwich Cho hired a dancer..."Coffeepusher (talk) 22:07, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cho hired an escort before the rampage. 

message: You're kidding, right?  He was on magazine covers. THF (talk) 14:24, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It's been declined.  I'm inclined to warn the person who placed the tag for vandalism.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 14:56, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Don't mean to bring up an old issue, but Seung-Hui Cho's notability does not go beyond the crime he perpetuated.  Similarly, the recent Panama City school board shooter, Clay Duke, has been nominated for deletion on grounds that would apply to Seung-Hui Cho too.  Maybe I could get someone to explain the difference between Seung-Hui Cho and Clay Duke, aside from the body count.  Ashershow1 (talk) 05:18, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't get it, either. InedibleHulk (talk) 09:42, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Speedy deletion proposal 

message: i don't follow the meaning of that phrase; there should be an explanation of it provided.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.171.177.100 (talk) 06:54, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  "I did it for teh lulz" 

message: Did anything important happen between the Preparation and the Aftermath? 67.169.185.246 (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 06:35, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Preparation to Aftermath 

message: The first couple sections of this article have been very badly edited or possibly vandalised.  There are chunks of broken English interspersed with nonsense/random typing.  The history page shows that this version has already been revised specifically to correct vandalism, so I'm not sure what to do.  I'm making a note of it here in hopes that someone who knows how to edit articles will see it.  108.203.202.17 (talk) 21:25, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Interesting. I've copy-pasted the last correct version and now the article is fine again, even though the preview did not show any changes and my edit does not show up in the edit history. Does anybody know what has happened? (Lord Gøn (talk) 22:46, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vandalism? 

message: This Wikipedia article currently states:  According to CBS News, "Cho Seung-Hui's violent writing [and] loner status fit the Secret Service shooter profile,"[149] referring to a 2002 U.S. Secret Service study that was conducted after the Columbine massacre...
The CBS article is sensational, and its emphasis and interpretation are completely different than conclusions and recommendations made by the source it cites.  Checking the actual study, no such claim is made.  In fact, quite the opposite.  "The study findings also revealed that there is no "profile" of a school shooter; instead, the students who carried out the attacks differed from one another in numerous ways. However, almost every attacker had engaged in behavior before the shooting that seriously concerned at least one adult - and for many had concerned three or more different adults." http://www.secretservice.gov/ntac_ssi.shtml 50.54.238.241 (talk) 14:20, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  No "Secret Service shooter profile" exists for these killers 

message: I notice the Wikipedia Bullying portal is at the bottom of this page. I can't remember ever reading that bullying was a key or even minor motivator for Cho's killing spree so unless someone can produce a source indicating otherwise I would like to suggest removal.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.73.226.114 (talk) 23:20, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bullying? 

message: Why the fuck do we have to create an entirely separate page for this maniac. Like an biography. No wonder there's more mass shooting. If someone tried to kill more people, they are entitled to a biography?
:We don't have to, and guidelines actually say we shouldn't. Not sure why an exception was made this time, but the rationale is probably here somewhere. InedibleHulk (talk) 09:40, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: I have a long enough memory to be able to comment on that: this page was created well before the guideline you mention. Also compare Mohamed Atta, Ziad Jarrah, Hasib Hussain et al. A biography in recent events is unlikely to happen, and in fact it doesn't happen much these days. -- zzuuzz (talk) 13:30, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  This is disgusting 

message: This article violates this specific Wikipedia policy, thus it will be merged into the Virginia Tech shooting article
Seung-Hui Cho is a non-notable person, only known for his spree-killing at Virginia Tech. The same logic was used to remove the separate article for Adam Lanza as he is also was a non-notable person, only known for his spree killing event which is documented in the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting article Moebiusstrip (talk) 03:37, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Because this article contains a great deal of information not found in the Virginia Tech shooting article, I undid the merger. If this article is to be deleted (based on the conversation above, there seems to be some question on whether it should or shouldn't), some of the information in this article should first be moved to the Virginia Tech shooting article.Bnng (talk) 18:15, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  This article should be merged into [[Virginia Tech shooting]] 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Seung-Hui Cho. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This article and some copycats are citing his name as "Kenneth Cho". It's certainly believable to me that he'd go by an English name in the US, but without any mention of this in the article, I hesitate to make a redirect. Is this an error or just an overlooked alternative name? --BDD (talk) 19:44, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I haven't seen it before and can't find any evidence for it - it seems like a mistake. -- zzuuzz (talk) 19:50, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Kenneth"? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: ===News Reports Secret Service "Loner Profile"===
In the final section of the article "Reactions to Writings," in the third paragraph:
:According to CBS News, "Cho Seung-Hui's violent writing [and] loner status fit the Secret Service shooter profile,"https://www.cbsnews.com/news/warning-signs-from-student-gunman/
While it is true that CBS claimed that, the Secret Service study referenced by CBS says no such thing.  Furthermore, the referenced article by Christine Lagorio, attributes the false notion of "quiet loner" to "CBS News Correspondent Wyatt Andrews."  Since the linked article by Lagorio doesn't provide links to the sources, I feel that is is not particularly verifiable.
===Secret Service Report Says There is no Profile===
The Final Report and Findings of the Safe School Initiate (the "Secret Service" study) says
:"There is no accurate or useful "profile" of students who engaged in targeted school violence.13
:13 Here the term "profile" refers to a set of demographic and other traits that a set of perpetrators of a crime have in common (p. 11)
===Interest in One's Own Violent Writing===
The last sentence of this paragraph suggests that interest in one's own violent writings, while shunning other violence was a significant conclusion of the report. The report contradicts this. On pages 11 & 12 under the heading of Overview of Safe School Initiative Findings are 10 key findingshttps://www2.ed.gov/admins/lead/safety/preventingattacksreport.pdf.  Not listed is interest in violence or writing.
:* Incidents of targeted violence at school rarely were sudden, impulsive acts.
:* Prior to most incidents, other people knew about the attacker’s idea and/or plan to attack.
:* Most attackers did not threaten their targets directly prior to advancing the attack.
:* There is no accurate or useful "profile" of students who engaged in targeted school violence.13
:* Most attackers engaged in some behavior prior to the incident that caused others concern or indicated a need for help.
:* Most attackers had difficulty coping with significant losses or personal failures. Moreover, many had considered or attempted suicide.
:* Many attackers felt bullied, persecuted, or injured by others prior to the attack.
:* Most attackers had access to and had used weapons prior to the attack.
:* In many cases, other students were involved in some capacity.
:* Despite prompt law enforcement responses, most shooting incidents were stopped by means other than law enforcement intervention.
7FFFFFFF (talk) 00:02, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Misleading Information 

message: The last sentence of this paragraph suggests that interest in one's own violent writings, while shunning other violence was a significant conclusion of the report. The report contradicts this. On pages 11 & 12 under the heading of Overview of Safe School Initiative Findings are 10 key findingshttps://www2.ed.gov/admins/lead/safety/preventingattacksreport.pdf.  Not listed is interest in violence or writing.
:* Incidents of targeted violence at school rarely were sudden, impulsive acts.
:* Prior to most incidents, other people knew about the attacker’s idea and/or plan to attack.
:* Most attackers did not threaten their targets directly prior to advancing the attack.
:* There is no accurate or useful "profile" of students who engaged in targeted school violence.13
:* Most attackers engaged in some behavior prior to the incident that caused others concern or indicated a need for help.
:* Most attackers had difficulty coping with significant losses or personal failures. Moreover, many had considered or attempted suicide.
:* Many attackers felt bullied, persecuted, or injured by others prior to the attack.
:* Most attackers had access to and had used weapons prior to the attack.
:* In many cases, other students were involved in some capacity.
:* Despite prompt law enforcement responses, most shooting incidents were stopped by means other than law enforcement intervention.
7FFFFFFF (talk) 00:02, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Interest in One's Own Violent Writing