Talk:Fred Spiksley

message: *I have come across a number of sources linking Spiksley with Ruhleben P.O.W. Camp which I have added below. At the start of war Spiksley was coach at 1. FC Nürnberg. A number of other detainees - Fred Pentland, Samuel Wolstenholme, Steve Bloomer, John Cameron  and John Brearley - were also working as coaches throughout Germany and they all ended up at Ruhleban. 
** Spiksley as POW
**Mentioned in Wolstenholme bio. 
Another editor added this picture of Spiksley and son apparently at camp. (I presumed it was yourself) . However the link itself does not provide any info. An archive of Ruhleban prisoners does not mention Spiksley, but archives writers admit it is not complete.  
 
*Is it possible that Fred  and his son  Fred Jr, have been mistaken for each other in some records ? Do you have any info on what became of Fred Jr ? Djln          
--Djln 19:38, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Spiksley at Ruhleban

message: I think the article could do with more info on Spiksleys coaching career in general. Could you provide the names of books and/or links were you got the recently added info. Both Fred Pentland and Steve Bloomer coached in Spain. Pentland was particularly successful. Is it possible that Spiksley worked with either of them ?  FC Barcelona did not appoint its first official coach until 1917. It is possible that he worked with the club before then or as an assistant coach after.  It is also possible that Spiksley coached another Barcelona club. There is a number of football clubs based in Barcelona apart from FC Barcelona. These include both CE Europa and RCD Espanyol. I have seen the words de Barcelona added to the names of both these clubs and this could cause some confusion. There is also Barcelona Sporting Club in Ecuador which is not far from Mexico where Spiksley also coached. 
Djln--Djln 19:38, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Spiksley as coach

message: I did add the link to the POW Photograph. There is no mistake over the names, both him and his son went over to Germany and were interned together. His son was never a football coach, so it was the footballer who was on the ship to New York. In Bloomers biography there is a meeting between Fred and Steve at Derby station, it says it was the first time they had seen eachother since the war, when they were in Germany. The only possible way they could have met in Germany would have been in Ruhleben becasue Bloomer was only there a few weeks before being interned and was in a different region from fred.
In terms of his coaching career we do have lots of information, but the work on the book so far has focused on his early life, Gainsborough Trinity and Sheffield Wednesday. The research on his coaching is good and inparticular information about his time in Sweden and Nuremberg. We know for a fact that he was in Spain and we have read that he coached Barcelona, however we are unsure on how accurate this source is and if we include it in the book it will be a short 'did he?, didn't he?'
The Mexico stuff is hard, but we have the dates for the Reforma club and Club Espana. He did win the Mexican Championship with Espana and we have the photograph of him with the team, trophy after the match. We have the dates for Fulham and research into this shows the FA Cup run to be the only thing of interest, although it is a good story.
ou may be interested to know that he was in Fred Karno's 'The Football Match' in 1907 with Athersmith of Aston Villa fame.
Thanks for your interest in Spiksley, we appreciate what you have been doing on this website. It is impossible for us to put everything we have up on here, I just occassionally add things. For your information, Fred is my Great Great Uncle, which is the closest way you can be related to him. His son had no children. 
Where did you find out that he played for Oldham and not totenham in the Ruhleben final? On Wolstonholme's page (linked by you) it does not mention what team he played for. I've read that the oldham team was made up of players from the upper class and thought it more likely that Fred played for Totenham with Bloomer.
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.249.130.70 (talk) 08:10, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Response

message: I do not think fred met up with Bloomer in Spain, due to the article in his biography which states that Fred met Bloomer at Derby station just before Bloomer died. It says that it was the first time he had seen Bloomer since the war and was upset at seeing an old friend so ill.
I do have the dates for Mexico clubs, but at the files are at my fathrs house and it's been so long since I saw the mexico dates that I am reluctant to put them on the site. Off the top of my head I believe he coached the Roforma Cub from 1921 and was coaching Espana by 1923. Then he came back to coach Fulham, but yet again there are no offical records of his coaching at Fulham. It is recorded in newspapers from the time however and his time there starts and finishes at exactly the same time as a particular manager and therefore it seems to fit.
He was a coach in Spain, but this is the most hazey part of our research. There are still quite a few items of Spainsh gold jewlery still in the family that Fred bought back. 
I am hopeful that the book may be completed within two years, but there is so much left to do. It will exist and information will be placed on this web page on how to get it.
If you did not know. His FA Cup medal sold a couple of months ago for £8300 including commission. I drove several hours across the pennines to see it and hold it. Something I thought I would never do. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.206.215.137 (talk) 22:07, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Response

message: We are close to completeing the statistics for Trinity. We've nearly done 3 out of the four seasons. Although we are several match reports missing for the last season, so that could delay us. When we initially got the match reports we only got the ones for the Midland League matches and cup games. Friendlies were missed out. We got them about 10 years ago and it only now that we are filling in the gaps. Takes an age to read them all and get the goal scores. Fred may have scored more goals for Trinity in 4 seasons than he did in his entire time at wednesday. But then again it was a lower league at the time. He scored loads for The swifts, but this was an under 18's competition. 
One question. Where are you based? I live in York.
*I appreciate were you are coming from about Freds disputed England goals tally. I guess in the days before TV it was impossible to verify goalscorers and who scored what. At the moment I think it is best to stick with official stats. However if you now of an on-line link that disputes the official stats or retells one of the accounts you mentioned then you could link it here. Alternatively if you know the name of a book with this info, it could also be used.  There is no reason why the fact that his stats are disputed could then be included. Wikipedians are very fussy about what is included in articles and other editors may challenge the info if it is not sourced. I am based in Liverpool. Djln--Djln 14:50, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Gainsborough Trinity

message: http://ruhleben.tripod.com/id22.html
Try this link to the Ruhleben story which says that the match was between Oldham (Public Schools V Tottenham (Scratch XI). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.249.130.70 (talk) 16:22, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ruhleben Football Link

message: I've found a journal article that talks about trade offs between Germany and Britain. The Germans were reluctant to swap prisoners because there were more Germans in Britain. But an inspection of the Ruhleben camp (by the equivalent of the UN at the time) revieled poor sanitary conditions and the Germans were forced to be seen to do something. They opted to send some prisoners home, these were men who were concidered unfit for duty and therefore could not be sent out to fight against them in the future. 
Fred had played out his career with a dodgy knee, which eventually cost him his place at Wednesday. Thre is a story of how Fred dislocated his own knee so that he did not have to go to war. It may be that he did this in the camp so that he was released. Many men who were unfit for duty were sent to munitions factories and we know for certain that this happened to Fred. The men were released from Ruhleben in March or early April and this ties in with Fred not appearing in any Ruhleben magazines and being able to board the ship for New York in August 1915. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Clive w nicholson (talk • contribs) 07:59, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Ruleben Escape

message: The infobox says that Spiksley played one game for Corinthian F.C. in 1907. As Corinthian never played in a league I have deleted the appearances & goals from the infobox.
I am still dubious about the Corinthian reference. Cavallini's "History of the Corinthian Football Club"  lists every Corinthian match and player and there is no mention of Spiksley. --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 11:49, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Corinthian F.C.]] 

message: I appreciate that a few people have worked hard to create this page and I am most grateful for your support in improving the quality of the article. I am pretty useless with all the nuances of Wikipedia, but have the information required to improve the article so that it may be ranked as an A for quality rather than a B. 
Two areas I have discovered that need improving are; 1. reference to source material (which I have added to today); 2. Inclusion of pictures. Something I have many of but no idea how to include.
The page is a double edged sword for me. I don't want to give too much away that will be in the biography. But I want the page to raise awareness of Fred and be of a high quality. Therefore I would like to add some photographs that are already out in the public domain rather than from my personal collection. Any ideas and help with improving the page would be brilliant.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.134.16.131 (talk) 15:23, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: How to improve this Wikipedia page

message: I do not have any evidence that Fred worked as a proper bookmaker. I understand hat this may have come from a Kieth Farnsworth comment. But there is no evidence of it as far as I am concerned. He did however once get found guilty of illigally taking bets from members of the crowd at a football match, and was a compulsive gambler. I would say that to put that he was a bookmaker on this wikipedia page is very missleading. On all documentation I have on Fred he always regarded himself as a Football and Athletics coach right up to his death. Maybe he was, but it would have been for a brief time and insignificantfor this page. If I discover otherwise I will obvioulsy change the page back.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.211.104.163 (talk) 14:35, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Did not work as a bookmaker

message: What exactly needs clarifying on this page? What information needs verifying? This is one of the most referenced pages I've seen. Give us a break!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.217.234.34 (talk) 17:43, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Clarification

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Fred Spiksley. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Eighteen sources for a nine-sentence article? That's not very efficient, if nothing else, but really if he's that notable he needs a longer entry and if he isn't does he really need such a long bibliography? Stub Mandrel (talk) 13:49, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: New article from the BBC which could be the basis for an expansion:  5.68.81.218 (talk) 09:03, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lots of Sauce