Talk:Dewey Decimal Classification

message: I think there is a typo in this part of the article. plz check. a word wit mn....?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.91.118.215 (talk) 22:17, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comparison with Library of Congress Classification 

message: The Isaac Asimov comment seems unlikely.  Someone should try to disprove it. Superm401 02:01, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: No, but he does have a video... -- see this post from 025.431: The Dewey Blog.  --zenohockey 03:09, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Isaac Asimov

message: "Thanks to the use of pure notation, a mnemonics system and a hierarchical decimal place system, it is generally easier to use for most users."
Seems like like more of a personal sentiment than a fact. Speaking as someone who works in a library with about 5 million books, some sorted in Dewey, and some in Library of Congress, the Congress ones usually have far less confusing call numbers after you try getting the Dewey system to try and deal with that number of books. (Unsigned by 150.135.48.109)
Agreed. The article can discuss the relative success of these "goals" or "advantages", but it's too much of a leap to declare one better in all aspects. GUllman 18:11, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Debatable Ease of use

message: I just added a few headers to break up the article in sections, since the text was already a bit long. This highlited some interesting facts which were buried in the final paragraphs. I also moved the description of the ten classes towards the beginning of the text, due to it's importance in illustrating how the DDC works. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ramalho  (talk • contribs) 16:28, 11 April 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Recent edits

message: I added the ACM computer science classification link at the end.  I think it might be relevant, since it's mentioned that the dewey system had lacked coverage on recent technology. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.125.163.218 (talk) 01:28, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Another edit 

message: The opinion that the DDC is inferior to other systems of classification doesn't really have a place in the encyclopedia entry. The DDC is ideal for certain types of collections, just as the LCCS is ideal for others. The DDC is, in fact, superior in some instances in terms of categorization and ease of browsing. I'm not the person to change this, but someone should. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.243.113.26  (talk • contribs) 08:33, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Suggestion for edit

message: Shall I intelligently link the listed classes to their relevant articles with squre brackets, or will it be reversed? --81.105.251.160 06:02, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you mean to create articles on each of the ten classes or just links to the subjects represented by the classes? Either way, not sure it is a good idea. Pages about each of the classes would be to much detail when there is link at the bottom where you can get that info. Subject links might be confusing because people would associate the subjects with the classes, which is not completely the case. Nowimnthing 22:07, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It would probably not be useful since users come here to learn about the Dewey Decimal System, not the subjects.  If they wanted to browse Wikipedia articles DDC order, then they would go here. GUllman 18:57, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Linking the classes with square brackets 

message: Ever since I started getting into the DDC, I always wondered what was up with 002. What the heck does it mean when 002 is listed as being "The book"? Phauge 03:23, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Books about books (the history of printing and bookmaking, things like that,) perhaps?  That's a guess, but I just did a quick Google search and couldn't find an explanation.  That's what I've always assumed it meant, though.  - Square pear 19:12, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's my understanding. People frequently refer to books in general using the definite article (e.g., "art and history of the book"). --Benjamin Mako Hill (talk•contribs) 14:33, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, I looked up some "books about books" and their DDC numbers did indeed begin with "002". LaMona 01:55, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Book? 

message: Is the list in the article (which might be better on a seperate list page) a possible violation of a database copyright (as the article itself says copyright is claimed on the system)?  I think it could be fair use as it is difficult to talk about DDC in an encyclopedia without including a copy of the system.
Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley talk contrib 12:40, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: OCLC has a PDF on its web site that gives the DDC numbers for the first 3 digits of DDC. In their contract, they say that libraries can display the first 3 digits to the public, but no more. So I think this is the allowed portion and therefore there isn't a problem. LaMona 01:54, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyvio? 

message: The article claims that that the DDC is "more expressive" than the LoC system. Why is this? Is expressive being used as a term of art here? If so, it deserves an explanation. If not, it seems POV. --mako 14:12, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: expressive simply means being able to express relationship between classes. For example UDC uses + to show a relationship between 2 concepts/classes. Aarontay 12:47, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  More expressive? 

message: I added a few paragraphs of the pros and cons of DDC vs LCC etc. I don't have my books and papers with me now, I will add in a few references later. Aarontay 12:53, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  pros/cons 

message: I'm 12 and the info on the date was wrong, it was 1873 121.45.40.54 09:55, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It does seem that 1873 is Dewey's "development" date, while the first publication was in 1876. The introduction to the 1899 edition (the 6th edition, which I have in hand) says: "The plan of the following Classification and Index was developt early in 1873."(p.7) It also says "When the first edition was published in 1876...." (p.8) and it says that edition had "...12 pages of tables containing the thousand sections..." (p.8) Then at the end of the introduction(p. 41) it says: "New York State Library, Dec. 25, 1890. The previous editions have been dated "Amherst College Library, June 10, 1876; Columbia College Library, august 10, 1885; and Columbia College Library, Aug. 30, 1888." (This leads me to believe that this 1890 introduction was repurposed for the 1899 edition.) The copyright statement on the book lists these dates: 1876, 1885, 1888, 1891, 1894, 1899. LaMona 21:45, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Date 

message: It's probably an unworkable idea, but would it be useful to have a project that assigns Wikipedia entries to Dewey decimal categories? Shiftaling 10:31, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It would take a lot of work with no real benefit.  The purpose of Dewey decimal numbers is to arrange physical books in a linear order on the shelf so that similar subjects are located near each other.  Wikipedia articles cover very specific topics from a paragraph to a few pages long, and each one is related to many other articles like a web or network.  Even the articles on very general subjects, such as academic fields, do not exactly match the words that are used by Dewey.  Browse through List_of_Dewey_Decimal_classes, and see how few Dewey categories exactly match the scope of Wikipedia articles. GUllman 20:46, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The UDC would be more suitable than DDC for the task, but I don't see any real point. GNUSMAS : TALK 21:01, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Have a look at User:Martin of Sheffield/sandbox3 which uses a template at User:Martin of Sheffield/sandbox where I've had a first stab at it. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 12:14, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: This really is a waste of people's time. Wikipedia is a single work made up of individual encyclopedic articles--not a library made of individual works. If it's to be given a Dewey number at all, that number is 003, the number for encyclopedias and dictionaries.  You might as well be trainspotting and call it "research" as assign individual Dewey or LC numbers to these articles.  Speaking of which, the act of assigning a Dewey or LC number to a topic might actually constitute original research and would therefore have no place in the article either.  ZarhanFastfire (talk) 07:37, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with you, but then we are talking about different things.  I've not seen anyone suggest that articles are assigned Dewey numbers, which would be rather daft, Dewey is a way of organising books, not an online encyclopedia.  My suggestion was that a hat note pointed to where books on the subject might be found in a library, most of which still have physical books on real shelves.  Such a note would not be mandatory, so hardly constitutes "a waste of people's time", after all it is pretty easy to look at the reference books you are using and see the number in large friendly numbers on the spine.  Maybe allow 5 seconds to look and 10 seconds to type?  Martin of Sheffield (talk) 10:35, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: The very first entry in this section of the talk page suggests DDC'ing the entries on Wikipedia--those entries are articles, not books.  So I'm sorry I misread you and thought you were seriously going along with what we both agree is a daft idea.  I'm still not convinced your own suggestion would either be very helpful (since books are not always about single topics easily classified in just one place), or consistent with Wikipedia rules regarding synthesis and OR, which is what your hat note might constitute.  Presumably this page would not be where to promote it (it being just a talk page for an article, not one about policy of the encyclopedia).  But don't let me pour cold water all over the idea. If properly executed in a limited way, your proposal could well have a lot of merit, unlike some current practices I've noted recently, namely seeking single numbers to assign to books: lately a lot of articles about books on WP now have OCoLC numbers on their pages, even though a book that has gone through dozens and dozens of editions should of course have dozens and dozens of possible OCoLC numbers, which are just records of a single expression of a work. Why anyone think this is at all useful for talking about the work itself in an encyclopedia article is utterly beyond me. ZarhanFastfire (talk) 06:05, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Dewey Decimalise Wikipedia?

message: This article lacks an introduction. I've never head about it before - Is it widely used? Where is it used? By whom is it used? I suspect it was written by an American, for Americans, with no regard for what isn't obvious to non-Americans. Thanks. CapnZapp (talk) 22:22, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Are you just trolling? The article does have an introduction, and then gives the answers to all of your questions. If this is a serious post, then you have never used a library. Most libraries in the English-speaking world use the DDC. Visit your local public library and see.--Iacobus (talk) 04:26, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Introduction 

message: I don't really see how this citation serves to explain anything about DDC. It's just a crazy comment by Kramer. Any objections to removing the citation? If so, please explain why it should be in this article.--Iacobus (talk) 04:28, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Popular culture - Seinfeld 

message: Confused... "How it works" starts with "The DDC attempts to organize all knowledge into four main chapters." and then says "The ten main classes ". How did we go from four chapters into ten classes? Thanks! Hendrixjoseph (talk) 02:37, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: "How it works" section

message: You go to a library. You're looking for a book written by a partnership of people, part fiction, part biographical, part scientific, utilizing more than one language, and covering more than one subject, while listing recipes. Where to start? How did the librarians and bookstores decide which shelf to put it on? Search and find knowing a few key words handles the problem of finding it. However, it's for the browser, looking for similar works, that gets floored. Amazon online handles the problem well. Any practical person reading this article for clues will get nowhere. JohnClarknew (talk) 20:27, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: No library or bookshop intends its classification scheme to be the sole means of finding items, and either should have an electronic catalogue that can be searched using key words. (Amazon's catalogue may sometimes make it easier to find a given item, but not consistently in my experience.) EALacey (talk) 21:06, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: What I mean is Amazon's ability to put up similar titles under a "if you like this book, you might also like ..." which is for the browser. Bookstores and libraries don't do this. JohnClarknew (talk) 05:37, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: The entire system is outdated with search and find

message: Is it necessary to have the paragraph criticizing the LCCS at the end of the criticisms of the DCC? This seems more an attempt to 'salvage' the DDC at the end of the criticisms. Everything has its shortcomings. I don't think we need to list the shortcomings of similar/competing ideas just to make this one feel better. Ffenliv (talk) 18:24, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it's time to remove the entire comparison to LCC. While it may be an interesting topic, it doesn't belong in this article. Can we come to some agreement about this? LaMona (talk) 18:31, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

text: WP is an encyclopedia. It can hold no opinions. Instead, it should report facts as stated in reliable sources and opinions of those notable for their expertise, giving them due balance. Like most older articles, this one makes claims not supported by references. Such claims may be deleted by anyone challenging them. That's how WP works. David Spector (talk) 18:54, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism of LC 

message: this requires an alternative. word not found in 4 dictionaries (including cambridge, onelook, merriam-webster, and dictionary.com).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.250.5.248 (talk) 00:25, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  no such word as "hospitability" 

message: :Besides its frequent revision, DDC's main advantage over [LCC]...
At another point we say that DDC is "infinitely hierarchical". Does that mean classifications are infinitely long, in principle? Does revision merely extend the strings? If they change more fundamentally, as US zipcodes or telephone exchanges do, what happens to the stock of books?
What is the scope of one decimal, by design? all printings of one edition? (more than that, I learn from the article) all fiction by one author? etc
Probably the article should give an example or three in order to help define the DDC. For one idea, what is the longest current DDC? Is DDC part of a standard system that incorporates but extends it? Or do specific users of the DDC assign all of the prefixes or suffixes (separated by spaces or newlines, i think)? --P64 (talk) 17:38, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: (afterthought) Alternatively, do users commonly use only part of the DDC? If a book is called as "813.5 x1alphanumeric", is its DDC almost sure to be 813.5 or likely to be longer "813.5.numeric"? --P64 (talk) 23:00, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Maintained how? 

message: There is very important information in source 2 that should be in the article.
walle1357, a nice wikipedian :) (talk) 18:06, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Source 2 

message: The article lists Dewey's Table as so:
*standard subdivision
*areas
*subdivision of individual literatures
*subdivisions of individual languages
*racial, ethnic, national groups
*languages
*persons
:
I thought the Dewey Tables were:
*T1 Standard Subdivisions 
*T2 Geographic Areas, Historical Periods, Biography 
*T3 Subdivisions for the Arts, for Individual Literatures, for Specific Literary Forms 
*T4 Subdivisions of Individual Languages and Language Families 
*T5 Ethnic and National Groups 
*T6 Languages
:
Which comes from this pdf
Which you can download from this website  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.244.216.165 (talk) 21:30, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: You are quite correct, the existing article is using DDC 22, the PDF to which you refer is using DDC 23.  There are a number of updates required both to this page and to the page List of Dewey Decimal classes.  Unfortunately OCLC have moved the previously 1,000 summaries out of the public area and hidden them behind the DeweyWeb.  DeweyWeb is available on subscription only, so the pages are likely to remain out of date until someone in a major library decides to update them.  I have, however, updated the table list just now. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 22:56, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  There is online access to DDC beyond the 3-digit, 1K list at dewey.info. I will add this to the page. LaMona (talk) 18:29, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tables? 

message: LaMona, the link you provide to the comparison of DDC and LC is valuable, but that page only seeks to tabulate the actual differences.  The text you removed sought to explain the differences, including contrasting the relevant stengths and weaknesses.  Might I sugest reinstating some or all of the text with a {{See also... hat note to provide the link?  Consider WP:RF, would a casual reader gain anything from a long table?  Regards, Martin of Sheffield (talk) 08:42, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. Ideally, perhaps, we could have a single paragraph that summary-style summarizes those strengths and weaknesses, with a Seealso hatnote, that could be placed within both this article, and also within the LCC article (which I note just has a lede section and a large list, currently). –Quiddity (talk) 15:38, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

text: I think the text belongs on the comparison page, not here. In the article on DDC you could justifiably compare it to any number of classification systems, of which LCC is not the most likely (the most likely, IMO, would be UDC). The "DDC v LCC" issue is very US-centric. If anyone wants to copy the text to the comparison page, that would be great, however, it must be sourced. Meanwhile, I'll have some historical info to add soon on why we ended up with two primary classifications rather than just one. Most of what was on this page was unsourced, and that's something I'm trying to correct. LaMona (talk) 17:56, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  DDC vs LC 

message: Folks keep reverting the title from "Relativ Index" to "Relative Index." Dewey did actually spell it "Relativ" and that spelling remained until the 1950's. Please leave the titles as they are spelled in the actual works. LaMona (talk) 18:01, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: LaMona, I don't have access to the source, but I think the changes to "pamflet" and "rerum" are also wrong, the next sentance notes Dewey's use of "reformed" spelling.  There are also some other changes the IP made (redundant "first", unnecessary use of first name, capitalisation of "library") so I'm going to revert to Yintan's version. Regards, Martin of Sheffield (talk) 09:19, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Martin, many of the early volumes can be found digitized on the Open Library or Google Books. I may make a list of those ... don't know if having a section on editions would be over-much, but I now have a table with editions, dates, # pages, editor. I could add URLs. It could be a separate page. LaMona (talk) 14:18, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: The Dewey Decimal organisation itself (OCLC) spells it "Relative Index". It is therefore just plain eccentric to use Dewey original spelling for this or other words. Although certainly, a note can be added saying that that is how he himself spelled it. Kanjuzi (talk) 16:52, 25 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Relativ Index 

message: This statement: "While he lived, Melvil Dewey edited each edition himself:" is not true. cf. Comaromi, p. 214 "By the time the fourth edition was published the DDC had a new editor, May Seymour." I will compile a list of the editors as well I can. LaMona (talk) 18:10, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  DDC editors 

message: I can't imagine that anyone has ended up on this page looking for duodecimal. Should we remove that link? LaMona (talk) 15:15, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd say keep it.  It is just a one line template, not a great thing.  I can remember talking to my late father many years ago and he made the duo/dewey mistake so yes, it can occur.  On the other hand if anyone has strong feelings I won't object. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 22:39, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Remove link to duodecimal? 

message: I see that there are many references to the "Dewey system" in the text. Dewey himself referred to it as "the Decimal Classification," which was its title at least through the 1930's. I have not been able to establish when it began being called the "Dewey Decimal Classification" but that was not its original name. Would it make sense to refer to it in the text as "Decimal Classification" rather than the "Dewey system"? The former is a proper noun, the latter is not.LaMona (talk) 13:28, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dewey system? or Decimal Classification? 

message: I edited a few sentences that implied that the Library Hotel lawsuit was about copyright (when in fact it was about trademark). Since there has been a discussion over at Wikidata and also here in en:wp about using Dewey, and because people keep bringing up the "copyright" suit, I fixed it. However, since I work for OCLC, I may have a CIO, so I want to invite others to check it out for themselves. This was not well reported in the popular press but there's a copy of the original filing here: news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/dewey/oclclbry91003cmp.pdf‎. Merrilee (talk) 22:26, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Merilee - you are absolutely right that the issue was Trademark, and if that wasn't clear in the article I am glad that you cleared it up. Copyright is on the published TEXT; trademark is on the name. WE've been through this a few times in this article. LaMona (talk) 00:23, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dewey and trademark vs copyright 

message: The article keeps going back and forth between 500 Pure Science and 500 Science. The dewey.info site, which was produced by the current editor of DDC, says 500 Science, as does the OCLC summaries page. I will wait a bit for arguments to the contrary, but I think this makes 500 Science definitive. LaMona (talk) 15:58, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Also, technology is NOT listed as "(Applied Science)" -- please consider these headings as quotes, not as editable text. --LaMona (talk) 22:14, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pure science? edit war? 

message: Was Roget's arrangement of ideas in his thesaurus an inspiration at all? What are the precedents for the arrangement of ideas and knowledge in an orderly, numerical, fashion? Wodorabe (talk) 16:23, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: You can see some history at Library_classification#History but that article seriously needs work. I have never heard a mention of Roget in any works about DDC, but that isn't surprising - Roget was organizing words and Dewey (and other library classificationists) were organizing books. The needs and use cases are significantly different. LaMona (talk) 06:05, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Roget 

message: Someone (more than one IP) has been editing the talk page. I tried to read through it, and it didn't look like vandalism, but it also made no sense. If you think these edits should remain, please explain here. Meanwhile, they have been reversed. If you think you are editing the DDC page, you aren't, this is the discussion area for the article. LaMona (talk) 21:32, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent edits of talk page 

message: There was a sentence added about Library Thing's use of Dewey, but that being one system out of hundreds of thousands, it was definitely WP:UNDUE. If we ever create a page for non-traditional systems using Dewey, with at least many of them, then this would fit. But as the only system named on the page it isn't appropriate. LaMona (talk) 19:57, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rollback of LT 

message: I added two subsections on criticism and I cited my research based largely on the Power to Name by Hope Olson (it is available on Google Books), and I could not figure out how to reuse the book as a source but change the page number. The source in the religion category is the right number, but the one in the Treatment of Women category should all be on page 8 instead of 22. Can I get some help on that? Craig21215 (talk) 14:16, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  why are these specific criticisms - homosexuality, religion and women - in this article? While there are sure to be publications which focus on these issues and as such can be used to legitimise inclusion on the basis of those publications existing - a circular process - that does not make this relevant in this context. This is an article about a generic classification system, not one about specific identity categories. If these are allowed to stay there will be no legitimate reason to exclude other identity categories, the number of which is growing exponentially. Either remove these three specific criticisms and boil the essence of the criticism down into a more generic, not identity-related criticism or accept that this can only end with each and every article on Wikipedia being taken over by sections like these. Yetanwiki (talk) 07:59, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: The section needs a bit of editing.  There are two heads: WASP-bias (with religion as an example) and changing attitudes to groups (with women, race and sexuality as examples).  Details specifics are probably not needed or it will degenerate into an unseemly list.  I might give it a go in a couple of days unless someone else wants to pick up the baton. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 08:41, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Added criticism, need help with re-using citation 

message: The external link "Dewey Summaries as Linked Data" (http://www.worldcat.org/devnet/wiki/DeweyInfoTechOverview) is inactive.--192.115.96.51 (talk) 07:20, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inactive external link 

message: A self-published newsletter from a publisher based in the former Lady Stephenson Library in Newcastle upon Tyne states that this library was the first in the UK to use DDC, introduced by Andrew Keogh who went on to be University Librarian at Yale. Can anyone source this statement, and add it to this article, or the section about the library, or Keogh's article? It seems an interesting point of history but I'm not sure that the newsletter is a WP:RS. PamD 09:04, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  DDC introduced to UK? 

message: The information about DDC number building and synthesized DDC numbers is not obvious nor easy to understand so a more detailed description would help to better understand DDC. -- JakobVoss (talk) 16:02, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: This is summarised under §3 Design.  There needs to be a balance struck between three competing viewpoints: WP:COPYVIO – the tables are (I believe) copyright; WP:NOTHOWTO – the aim is to describe, not instruct and lastly a desire for WP to be as universal as possible.  I might be persuaded to have a go at explaining in more detail if others would indicate where the balance is, alternatively would a librarian would take up the task? Martin of Sheffield (talk) 16:32, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Information about number building 

message: Hi everyone! I was reviewing reference number 52 in relation to the section on the treatment of Homosexuality and I think the source was misread. It has an accurate Wikipedia:As of tag, but the source itself provides further information regarding a classification change. The OCLC no longer recommends the use of 363.49, directly contradicting the claim made by the post. I'm still new here, so I wanted to post a note before going in to settle on an edit that would work. Whisperwind1242 (talk) 00:23, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Re: Treatment of Homosexuality