Talk:VRLA battery

message: It seems to me that Gel Battery, Absorbent glass mat and VRLA would fit much better into a "Types of Lead-Acid Batteries" subsection in the Lead-acid battery page.  See the discussion over at Talk:Lead-acid battery.  Matt B. 11:35, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proposed Merge 

message: Not being an expert on Battery chemistry, nor topology - the following article seems to contradict a number of "facts" in this article?
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0101/Nelson-0101.html
An experts attention sure seems to be required!
Carl L.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.116.169.142 (talk) 01:56, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contradiction? 

message: consensus against move
:VRLA battery → VRLA electrochemical cell — The electrochemical battery is simply a pair of electrochemical cells. this article deals around how this type of cell works. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.245.90.148 (talk • contribs) 12:03, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Move

message: There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Lead-acid battery which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RFC bot 00:00, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Move discussion in process

message: How does the electrical characteristics compare to other lead acid cells? -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 04:13, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Where a VRLA battery is designed to replace a flooded-cell battery, the electrical characteristics are generally the same, both in charging and discharging modes.  Other than that, the specifications need to be studied on a case-by-case basis, depending on application.  The subject is broad enough that trying to explain it in this article would get it hopelessly lost in details.—QuicksilverT @ 17:10, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: No discussion on electrical characteristics

message: In the introductory paragraph The "electrolyte starved" comment: "Electrolyte Starved" doesn't refer as much to the overall volume as it does to the glass mat (AGM) is not fully saturated- therefore not prone to leakage if the case is broken open.  
Also the "short duration" of discharge is questionable. An AGM can maintain a high level of discharge much longer than a flooded cell starting battery! (even if the peak rate is somewhat lower) Not that anyone should ever try arc welding using these as a power supply- but AGM's are very willing to maintain a high discharge rate for anyone crazy enough to demand that of them.
The last paragraph in the Construction section is overly generalized which seems to imply AGM & Gel technology both should be limited in charging rate. The difference between these technologies are night and day different in terms of performance under charging conditions. Please remove the generalization and allow the explanation below carry this or else offer more specifics under construction. 
Orienting an AGM battery on its side may actually lead to a minor decrease in capacity. Ref wind-sun.com  website. Pancaking helps them? Maybe, but may be type specific.
Please explain difference between "specific power" & "specific energy". Not sure this makes sense, though I confess to not researching this one yet.
Aircraft use? I know F-16's use AGM's for on board battery. Never heard of any sailplane or aerobatic aircraft using gel cells. I can see unmotorized sailplanes use gel cells for their greater depth of discharge ability, but in airplanes or motorized sailplanes probably not at all. Never saw any in my flying or flight line attendant days, and gel cells cannot be reasonably used as a starting battery. Please be more specific here!
Arctic use? Not a chance! Output drops to zero! They use NiCd exclusively unless some other technology I am thus far unfamiliar with has been implemented relatively recently. Possibly exception would be where batteries are kept in a climate controlled area 100% of the time. Maybe your source was way off here?
Overall this is a pretty good article, but some sources may be incorrect. I have seen worse! I suggest adding more sources. Some in academia aspire to "higher knowledge" but are completely inept when it comes to actual experience with a given technology. I suggest studying the wind-sun website as well as several manufacturer's sites to find answers from those with first hand engineering knowledge. East Penn (MK, Deka) should be one good source. Concorde, and a few others recommended by Wind-Sun would be preferred since quality is a priority to these folks, and there are many who compromise on quality. Manufacturers who care about details should be better able to articulate these details! Many in academia have had their hands dirty and know very much indeed, but beware the book writers who have never picked up a tool other than a keyboard!
s bryant69.226.99.253 (talk) 05:59, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Great. WP:SOFIXIT. Don't forget references.--Wtshymanski (talk) 14:43, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clarification/ corrections needed 

message: AGM - disadvantages contradicts article: Lead Acid Battery - Valve Regulated 
True: if a battery was made AGM and not Valve Regulated eg. just let the gas out; unsealed, it would loose water faster.  I don't think such a thing exists.  For example the batteries in your UPS are Valve Regulated AGM.  They don't make unsealed/unregulated AGM's.  Though sometimes I see/get AGM's that let gas out upon minor overcharge though they clearly say "sealed" on he case so I think they were improperly sealed from the factory. 66.114.93.6 (talk) 19:40, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  AGM disadvantages contradiction 

message: People tend to confuse "gel cell" and SLA or VRLA or AGM generally.  This article falls victim as well.  For example the part about the wheelchair saying that gel cell is used there for low gas output, but an AGM type will not release any more or less gas because of underlying of being Sealed Lead Acid and Valve Regulated.  Actually, when people say "gel cell" they almost always mean an AGM type.  Gel cell is an older technology and I see the majority of batteries in service are AGM type.  Even the picture of a "gel cell" is the same as the AGM picture, only the color is different.  If the manufacturer colors their batteries differently to ID them AGM vs. gel cell, then I'd like to see that added to the article.  66.114.93.6 (talk) 20:19, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gel Cell confusion 

message: I encountered an article hyping sealed batteries, rife with errors (they do not deliver more zap for the buck but less; they do not charge faster but slower; they do not last longer but rather die more quickly, their lead is not 'purer' but rather salted with calcium, etc. etc.) So I've tried to fix it with a better balanced pros n' cons. I agree with those who think the page title should be "sealed batteries" with VRLA redirected to this page.  Everybody knows what a sealed battery is. Nobody knows what a VRLA is.  Not even industry literature calles them VRLAs. ElijahBosley (talk ☞)  22:31, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Well done, but I don't agree on the name change. Many years ago I had the misfortune to repair some equipment that these allegedly "sealed" batteries had sprayed all over; lots of the "battery" literature sticks to VRLA as a designation. --Wtshymanski (talk) 16:44, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: The editorial reductions to take out the "colorful" opinions are probably improvements, but I need to step back from the article and think about the pro/con balance. I also wonder whether this article should be combined with the larger "battery" article. But I have family crisis right now so I'll take a week or so to get back to this.ElijahBosley (talk ☞)  19:13, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: We need sources less specialized than someone talking about boat batteries; there's tons of industry literature out there. I wouldn't merge it to "battery", we have many articles about individual spare parts which are less noteworthy as a topic than VRLA batteries. --Wtshymanski (talk) 20:25, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

text: DIYers are capable of marvels, but it's not especially notable for this article.  No doubt someone has a bag of lemon batteries hooked up to an LED to light his bike, but we don't need to put that in an aricle either. --Wtshymanski (talk) 13:41, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pros n' cons 

message: The content of History should be merged under AGM.  The Gelled Electrolyte section has its own history, and the current content under History is exclusively about AGM, which is actually the newer of the two technologies.  Gbuchana (talk) 13:33, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  History 

message: The undesired overcharging reactions, which VRLA batteries attempt to mitigate, do produce oxygen and sometimes hydrogen, but not sulfur.  The gases are produced by electrolysis of water.  Sulfur is not produced, since the temperature even of boiling sulfuric acid is far too low to decompose it into its elements. I have amended the article to explain this.CharlesHBennett (talk) 21:50, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Overcharging and sulfur production 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on VRLA battery. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130904090141/http://www.firststartbatteries.com.au/faq.html to http://www.firststartbatteries.com.au/faq.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 11:19, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Is there such a thing as a fully sealed lead acid battery, separate from those described here?  I've unreverted your edit, I've never heard of such a thing and it strikes me it would be quite dangerous.  A one way valve is essential.  Multiple book sources confirm these are simply synonyms .
 SpinningSpark 15:57, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I think their use of "sealed" is a simple marketing term that means "mostly sealed" to prevent the acid from easily dumping out, yet it still has a one-way value to allow gas causing pressure to vent.  • Sbmeirow • Talk • 16:38, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

text: please explain why you have removed this again.  I've provided multiple sources above that claim the terms are synonyms (although "sealed" may well be something of a misnomer).  Do you have a source that explains the difference in these two things?  As I said above, I don't believe that there is such a thing as a completely sealed LA battery. SpinningSpark 17:31, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Working on it. Hard to get out to the library these days. There's a variety of cheap and nasty lead-acid batteries that just have no openings at all and trust in luck to not be damaged by overcharging, and then there's the proper VRLA design that has provision for recombination, starved electrlyte, and the definitive pressure relief valves. VRLA aren't sealed, and "sealed" don't have valves. They are all "spillproof" in teh sense they won't dump acid out if inverted. --Wtshymanski (talk) 16:53, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Even if that's right, it doesn't change the claim that SLA is used synonymously with VRLA. Usage in sources is the deciding factor on Wikipedia, not our own ideas of terminological correctness. SpinningSpark 22:07, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sealed or not sealed 

message: Someone has moved the "History" section to the top of the article.  I'm not so sure this for the best.  In broad topic articles, the history of the subject can give the reader a good feel for the subject, especially if it is technical and unfamiliar.  But for something as specific as this, most readers are probably mostly looking for a description of what it is and how it works.  It's certainly not the case that this order is a style standard as seems to be implied by the edit summary. SpinningSpark 21:38, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: It's almost a coin flip for debating.  The current history section is small enough to not be a significant problem... on the other hand if it was extremely long then it might be a different discussion.  All city articles start with history no matter their length, and it could be debated that it might be in the wrong location for people who are looking for other things.  The history section probably should be at the top, whether or not it's the best place for every article.  • Sbmeirow • Talk • 23:25, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Position of history section 

message: Distilled water into the small brick style, 'sealed' battery to improve its current characteristics on batteries which are approaching their end-of-life. A devious trick used by some battery recyclers to re-sell old AGM types as "rejuvenated" or as "low use".
The plastic piece stuck down over the vent caps (usually has the label stuck on it) in a SLA style battery can be pryed off easily and the neoprene caps of each of the cells (six caps for 12volt types) can be seen. Adding about five drops of distilled water into each cell of the battery usually increases the available current, ie: cold cranking amps, helps to 'rejuvenate' the AGM style battery when the battery has been cycled many times. Too much water will dilute the cell. Replace the caps, re-glue the cover! Obviously I cannot provide calibrated before and after data on performance but this is what I told to do.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.193.192.4 (talk) 13:44, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wetting an AGM-type battery