Talk:Alexander Scriabin

message: Second paragraph basically restates the first, with a sonata listed as an example. Otherwise it's not necessary and is clunky to boot.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.180.44.133 (talk) 06:20, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Second paragraph largely redundant 

message: I'm removing the notion that Scriabin was a progenitor of serialism. It wasn't cited, and it doesn't seem to have any validity. But it's echoing at Answers.com, Young Composers, etc. The author of the opening paragraph also seems to think that atonality and the 12-tone method are one smooth continuum of modern radicalism. There are 15 years separating the two in Schoenberg's career, and serialism is a direction that atonalists in general (and fans of Schoenberg in general) are quite divided on. When people let the word "serialism" stand for "extreme/pure atonality", they create a false polemic.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blcarson (talk • contribs) 06:54, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think of Scriabin as atonal at all.  As this article mentions, Scriabin uses many dominant seventh chords, which strongly indicate tonality.  Scriabin's tonality is thus constantly shifting. This is quite different from atonality on the early Schoenberg model, where there is no implication of a tonal center; for instance, in Pierrot Lunaire. Scriabin's constantly shifting tonality is is more akin to the non-functional harmonic sequences and whole tone scales of Debussy. Larry Koenigsberg (talk) 05:11, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: If Scriabin was a progenitor of serialism, please explain

message: There is barely anything about the music in the music section. Odd criticisms from other composers and the like are interesting, but hardly central. The synesthesia section is larger than the small paragraph about the music itself. For one thing, I've always been struck by how Scriabin's late sonatas (5 and on) can be called jazz. Has anyone written an article or book with this comparison? Where is the discussion of how groundbreaking the 5th sonata was when it was performed? Rachmaninov's reaction? The reaction of his former composition teacher ("beaten by sticks")? The 5th sonata alone, and Scriabin's short pieces from that period deserve an entire section because they were a major breakthrough in Russian music and classical in general.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.133.96.67 (talk) 16:13, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Weak music section

message: When I type in the word 'promethean chords' I always come up to a composition by Scriabin. I think it was used in his later work, to describe whenever he used a handful of notes to create one enormous chord on the piano. Is Scriabin the only guy who used Promethean Chords in his work? I think maybe a scholar or a hardcore piano musician may be able to help clarify this.
: Hm. I always thought that people were talking about "The Promethean Chord"; using the name to refer to a specific chord shape that Scriabin invented (as far as you can "invent" a chord, anyway).  It's mentioned in the film The Caveman's Valentine (for which we don't seem to have an article).  The "Caveman," as he's called, describes it as... Well, I don't remember exactly.  Something like "Nothing but a minor 7th with a bunch of hocus-pocus suspensions thrown in."  I know he said "with a bunch of hocus-pocus suspensions thrown in," but I don't remember what the first part really was.  ("Suspensions" are certain pitches, usually a 2nd or a 4th, used in a chord where a 3rd would ordinarily be used.  Sorry, that's a very bad explanation. But for an idea of what they sound like: those last three chords in Bach's "Tocatta and Fugue" are, in order, a Sus4, Sus2, and major chord, all with the same root note)Marksman45 03:06, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See the very stubby Synthetic chord. Hyacinth 11:07, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Promethean Chords

message: I'm seeing a possible contradiction between articles re/ Scriabin's ability/condition...  This article refers to Scriabin as a synesthete, yet the synaesthesia article claims: Alexander Scriabin may have been, but probably wasn't, a synesthete. The color system he described and which he used in pieces such as Prometheus, unlike most systems and synaesthetic experience, line up with the circle of fifths, indicating that it was a thought out system that was also influenced by his theosophic readings, and based on Sir Isaac Newton's Optics. -- Ds13 20:19, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I would agree with the assertions on Synestheia that Scriabin probably wasn't a synesthetete (of course, because I added it). Check the external links at the bottom, those are what I based this conclusion on. Hyacinth 21:52, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Synaesthesia speculation

message: I'm gonna nitpick at something, if I may.  The article says, "...became a noted pianist despite his small hands with a span of barely over an octave." I'm a bit confused; "barely over an octave" is quite a distance on a piano, and not one that someone with small hands (at least not what I would call small hands) could span.
A photo example.  This photograph shows my hand, which (to my mind,at least) have a somewhat larger span than average, spanning across one octave on a piano with standard-sized keys.  (By extending my thumb to a nearly 90 degree angle from my hand and my pinky to a 45 degree angle, I can accurately reach the next two white keys past that octave)Marksman45 03:52, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No offense, but your piano could use some repairs! (see photo) Grover cleveland 16:22, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

text: Relatively speaking, that is a small handspan. Fredrick Chopin used ninths in many of his works such as the fantasy impromptu. Beethoven wrote a tenth to be rolled(i can't remember which work). Liszt commonly uses tenths and even elevenths like in his consolations. Anton rubenstein wrote 11ths in Melody in F. Rachmaninoff could play 13ths and I personally can play a 12th so I'd say that's a pretty small handspan. I find it interesting that scriabin wrote 11th's in his op 8 no 12.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stewy5714 (talk • contribs) 17:56, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Hands

message: I've always read that he contracted septicaemia after an insect bite became infected.  Here we say it came from a shaving cut.  What's the truth?  JackofOz 05:38, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It seems that he had a type of boil on his upper lip, which was infected. I don't think anyone knows precisely what caused it, although from our Boil article, it seems that shaving can cause boils, but I don't think we can say for sure either way. Perhaps it would be better to just say he died of blood poisoning from an infected wound or something. Mak (talk) 06:12, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

text: We need a reference for the cause of death. Stewy5714 01:57, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Cause of death

message: FYI. --badlydrawnjeff talk 20:16, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Link from CNN

message: Why would it be necessary to point out that he was born on a date based on the Julian calendar?  Was Russia using a different calendar in 1872 such that the distinction is necessary?  --Easter Monkey 06:22, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Russia switched to the Gregorian calendar at some time in the early 20th century: I don't remember exactly when.  It's customary to indicate which calendar is used for dates around this era. Grover cleveland 06:45, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Russia switched on 14 February 1918 - see Gregorian Calendar#Adoption.  --  JackofOz 01:35, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Julian calendar

message: For all you crazy, wannabe synesthetes.
 Stewy5714 00:26, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Template

message: The article should not have a reference and bibliography section. That is a bit redundant. I'll try to fix this. Also I will add a See Also section.  Stewy5714 02:16, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Orginization

message: I knew, when planning to look at the Wikipedia article of Scriabin, that by some process a choice would have been made as to which spelling to use to transliterate his name into English. (In fact, I am relying on Wikipedia for the "standard" spelling of foreign, transliterated names - maybe not a good idea?) Can anyone shed light on how they arrived at "Scriabin" for the title of the article, rather than "Skryabin"? I assume it is probably simply that more occurrences of "Scriabin" can be found on search engines, but I would like to know how the decision was made. 
I also think that, for research purposes and for transparency, it would be nice if somewhere in the fine print of articles such as this with transliterations which may be questioned there was a brief note as to how/when/by whom a potentially controversial transliteration was arrived at.
Thanks!
Dveej 11:35, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Transliteration of S's name

message: Why, exactly, was a neutrality tag put on this page?  Is it appropriate to do so without any justification?  Eliezg 09:34, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I cannot determine any legitimate reason for a neutrality tag to be added.  If someone added a POV statement like "Scriabin is the greatest composer ever" then it would be legitimate.  I am sending a request to the poster asking why the tag was added.THD3 18:41, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There has been no response as to why the tag was added.  I am deleting it.THD3 13:54, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, it has been a while since i've last logged in. I'm glad you have removed the neutrality tag, it was improper. I believe my reason was for the statement, "No composer has had more scorn heaped or greater love bestowed...". Leo Tolstoy once described Scriabin's music as "a sincere expression of genius". I completely overlooked the reference and carelessly added the tag. I have been known to do things like that around midnight...  Stewy5714 22:16, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Neutrality

message: As per Wikipedia:Trivia sections I've moved these facts to the talk page, where you might want to discuss if they are important enough to be incorporated into the article or should just be deleted. Tim Vickers 01:40, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Trivia

message: Does anyone have any suggestions on how to reorganize the biography section. I feel it does not give enough information about his later career and that it could be sectioned better. Why is there a line talking about his son's death under the "death" section?  Stewy5714talk 21:30, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Not only that, but there are some unbelievable, sloppy mistakes! Mix ups in chronology and a horribly muffled relation to events and times! Then there are just some plain wrong things! It seems so arbitrary. I'm working on drastically improving this section and have begun. I don't know how to cite, or structure or add any fancy titles. So i will add the content and whomever can fiddle around with the headings and organization of the material. Aaron.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.44.157.149 (talk) 17:45, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'll add the references to the material if you tell me where you got it in the edit summary.  Stewy5714talk 18:07, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Still very ugly! I've tried to smarten it up a little bit, but there is an awful lot to do here. Need reliable sources, as usual :-Ojonathan riley (talk) 14:05, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Reorganization of Biography section

message: Wrong:   Aleksandr Nikolaevič Skrjabin.
Must be: Aleksandr Nikolajevič Skr'abin
(r'- soft sound r, je - 2 sounds (not 1), r'a - 2 sounds(not 3)).
I can't edit. Edit, please.
:I've fixed it.  Pronunciations should be in IPA, not in phonetic transcription systems based on cyrillic.  — Æµ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 18:42, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The IPA "English" pronunciation given is the American 'Scriahbin'; on the BBC I've only ever heard 'Scriabbin', which is more like the Russian as given. Rothorpe (talk) 20:14, 14 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: Russian pronunciation

message: I have put some information on piano rolls, and references, under the "Performers and Legacy" heading, and I have amended the text in the "Media" section accordingly. Unless there are original documents that prove otherwise, then the recording date for the Welte rolls must be February 1910, as indicated on some of the surviving roll labels, and reported by Charles Davis Smith, to whom I have referred.
The Hupfeld rolls were probably recorded in Leipzig, which was the headquarters of the firm, but it also set up studios in Paris (at Stransky Frères) and Vienna at certain times. I note that Scriabin at one time lived in Paris, but I have not found any more detail.
Pianola (talk) 11:23, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Piano rolls

message: I've reviewed this article as part of the Composers project review of its B-class articles.  This article is a pretty good B-class article;  well done.  My main factual issue is that a claim of controversy made in the lead is never really substantiated in the body.  My full review is on the comments page; questions and comments should be left here or on my talk page. Magic♪piano 13:45, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Composer project review

message: This section is turning into something of a catch-all.  Obviously, Horowitz, Richter, and Sofronitsky are to be noted for their championing of Scriabin.  But Cortot and Arrau?  And a number of these pianists are not very notable.  In any case, I am taking out the redlinks, but I feel this paragraph needs to be trimmed.THD3 (talk) 20:48, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not wedded to the listing format either. However, while it would obviously be silly to list performers of, say, Mozart, I feel a slightly editorial case could be made for composers such as Scriabin (or, say, Alkan or Sorabji). Incidentally, the only absolutely complete survey of the solo piano works (albeit spread across a box  and a supplementary disc on a different label ) is by a performer, Maria Lettberg, who currently doesn't have a Wikipedia page. In the interests of NPOV I've added some key names and tried to structure the listings based on 1) recorded surveys; 2) complete sonata recordings; 3) other notable/prominent interpreters. Not ideal, I know... 81.147.165.192 (talk) 17:07, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

text: * I've restored Eric Le Van (as a Scriabin specialist; see review here: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2005/Sep05/Scriabin_Mazurkas_CD1125.htm - sorry, getting fatal error message when trying to link).  109.158.185.136 (talk) 11:42, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Performers and legacy

message: " Scriabin developed an increasingly atonal musical system, accorded to mysticism, that presaged twelve-tone composition and other serial music. "
As a person trying to learn about Scriabin for the first time, I'm having a hard time making sense of this sentence.  Is there way to delineate this idea that is easier to understand without knowing any previous context?
Renfield (talk) 12:43, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Opening Paragraph

message: Hi, I've just found this book on google: 
I think it's a good source to include.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fauban (talk • contribs) 09:20, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Material for the "music" section: a book about Scriabin's harmony 

message: "Scriabin conducted flying experiments with his second wife, and considered this physical dematerialisation as important in the body as in his music."  Martinevans123 (talk) 08:48, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Flying 

message: Substituted at 07:13, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: I've often read that he was born at Christmas and died at Easter.  We make no mention of Easter, so I checked it out.  
Easter Sunday in 1915 – in both the Orthodox and Western churches - was on 4 April Gregorian (= 22 March Julian).  But Scriabin died on 27 April Greg (= 14 April Jul).  That was 23 days after Easter.  
So, where did this baseless Easter claim come from, and should we debunk it in the article?  --  Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 13:18, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Died at Easter?

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: The article confidently states that Scriabin was not related to Molotov. D. Watson, in Molotov: A Biography, agrees that one of Molotov's brothers, a composer, changed his name to avoid confusion with the better-known Scriabin, but states that Molotov and Scriabin were second cousins. --Heron (talk) 22:07, 16 June 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Related to Molotov or not? 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Scriabin is just such an important, outstanding composer. I'd expand his bio beyond B-class, but I'm not the right person for the job, as I write about Finnish classical music rather than Russian, and thus haven't the appropriate sources at hand. Surely there is someone out there who can take this project on and serve the wider community! Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 19:49, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Calling a Scriabin enthusiast/expert ... 

message: * Sonata No. 9 , Op. 68 Black Mass by Alexander Nikolayevich Scriabin - midi guitar & bass https://voca.ro/1a7w2ILesq9z
:Not quite sure why. Or why here. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:44, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Still no idea how his could improve the article, sorry. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:17, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  digital guitar and bass from midi / right channel delayed 30 ms 

message: The article contains the diagram at right, with the caption as shown.  This diagram purports to depict Scriabin's synesthetic connections between colors and musical keys.  But the image was manufactured entirely by a Wikipedia editor and there is no evidence that the colors are based on anything other than the editor's imagination. Even if correct, there is no cite.
And it probably is not correct, because tt does not  match the description in the article, which reports that, according to Rachmaninoff, “[Scriabin] maintained that the key of D major was golden-brown”. 
The illustration should be replaced with one from a reliable source, or, if none is available, there should be a disclaimer that the illustration is only a fanciful reconstruction of the colors Scriabin might have associated with the circle of fifths. —Mark Dominus (talk) 12:06, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Diagram of circle of fifths is a misleading fabrication 

message: The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
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thread_title:  A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion 

message: I removed this footnote from the lead, where it had nothing to do with the text to which is was attached. The matter seems to be detailed in the body of the article, but if anyone thinks any of it is needed, please add it in the right place. Imaginatorium (talk) 13:51, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unrelated footnote 

message: Most of Scriabin's biographers discuss the composer's footprint in musical innovation as a hallmark, but not in comparison to all composers of the time. As much as I love Sciabin, none claim (from whom I've read) that he is one of the most innovative, but simply that he is innovative. The current sentence is at the start of the second lede paragraph, and it isn't supported by inline or body sources. I'll be bold and change it for now so that it at least isn't incorrect. Wretchskull (talk) 17:57, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: I think that's an improvement; thank you. (I stared at that and could not myself think of a better word.) He wasn't 'innovative' in the way people like Debussy or Schoenberg were; more of an outlier, like Gesualdo, he did some wild and brilliant things but had no disciples. What was it Henry Miller said -- "... a bath of ice, cocaine and rainbows ... divinely fouled up ... that far-off cosmic itch..." (probably misquoting). Antandrus (talk) 18:12, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Most innovative" 

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thread_title: Wiki Education assignment: 19th Century Concert Life