Talk:Wolf's Lair

message: "... at the time of operation this area was part of the former German province of East Prussia."
-- Wrong. At the time (7-20-44) the area was part of the German province of East Prussia. It became the former province of East Prussia when East Prussia was split between the Soviet Uniona and Poland in 1945.  Sca 18:31, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: 'Former' province

message: PLEASE NOTICE!!!: It is only in US (and not the entire English speaking world) the place is labeled "Wolf's Lair" (Where did the 'lair' come from??`).
The name of the place (get use to it US) is "Wolf's redoubt"
There is no such thing as "Wolf's lair". At least not related to WW2 and Adolf Hitler.
Regards
Henrik Ørsted, Denmark  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.184.30.205 (talk) 04:06, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: At Google "Wolf's redoubt" +Hitler makes 10 hits for me, and "Wolf's Lair" +Hitler makes 225.000 hits. Skogs-Ola (talk) 10:23, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: It's true that Schanze generally means fortification, not lair or "redoubt" (the latter being a little-used word). However, the use of "Wolf's Lair" has become so commonplace in English that there's little point in being pedantic about it. To me, it makes more sense to simply use the German word Wolfsschanze. Sca (talk) 15:13, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Wolf's redoubt

message: The Wolfsschanze was a huge complex served by road, rail and airfields. (I've seen it.) Each Nazi bigwig had his own bunker. It was widely known among German government and military officials. I find it hard to believe that the Western Allies were unaware of its existence through the entire war.
I've never understood why they couldn't find it and bomb it to smithereens — rather than bombing cities. At least by 1944, if not considerably earlier, they had the capability of bombing such a target; witness the devasting R.A.F. attacks on nearby Königsberg in late August 1944.
Hitler himself was well aware of its vulnerability to air attack. I've added three quotations from Traudl Junge's memoirs to show this. (I also added the German and English editions of her memoir to 'Sources,' with page numbers.) If anyone has any information regarding the Allies' failure, or perhaps unwillingness, to attack the Wolfsschanze, it would be interesting to see it. 
Similar questions could be asked regarding the Berghof (residence), Hitler's Bavarian aerie, where his entourage spent long periods during the war. Junge also writes of repeated air-raid warnings there late in the war, but says the Allied planes, chiefly U.S. bombers based in Italy, flew on "to their destinations," i.e. German cities. It wasn't bombed until April 25, 1945, twelve days before the surrender of German forces on May 7. Why not?
And what about Hitler's special trains, known as the Führersonderzug? (See: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%BChrersonderzug.) They were equipped with multiple flak (AA) batteries and given top priority on the Reichsbahn. One would think that Allied fighter-bombers — which by the end of the war were busily attacking anything that moved on German roads and rails — could have targeted these as well, but according to Junge their guns were never fired except in practice.
Sca (talk) 15:09, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Good points. I don't think the Allies had the ordnance that would do much damage to the Wolfsschanze bunker complex - I guess the two options would be Tallboy through the roof or directly beside a bunker, or vast numbers of incendiaries to suck out the oxygen locally. Tallboys would need to be dropped from 4 miles up, so were useless against a small target such as a bunker, and sealed bunkers could probably be self-sufficient in air for several hours. As for avoiding softer targets such as the Berghof, I imagine the entire focus of Allied bombing missions at that time was to assist advancing ground forces, so a mission against Hitler's holiday home means one less chance to help the advance? Little grape (talk) 15:21, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Allied knowledge?

message: Substituted at 10:49, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Assessment comment

message: Ideally, a map for the infobox would show the location of the Wolf's Lair and the postwar border changes that put it in Poland. Such a map would combine these two. 
:::::::::::::::::::::⇔
However, the map at right would be an improvement over the map of postwar Poland removed as chronologically erroneous – if someone can figure out how to insert it in the infobox. Sca (talk) 16:29, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, the map at right does show its location in present-day NE Poland, but with with the pre-1945 German names at least conveys the notion that the area formerly was German. There's already a good photo in the infobox, so I don't think there's room for two maps there. Sca (talk) 20:45, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Map

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Wolf's Lair. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150325023800/http://wolfsschanze.pl/index.php/tourism to http://wolfsschanze.pl/index.php/tourism
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 08:31, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: It's long been a moot question whether the Allies knew about the Wolfsschanze while it was Hitler's HQ. A more limited question though is, when the Red Army discovered the place, two days after it had been blown up, did their units and officers on the ground realize what they had found? Did they see that it was not just any bunker complex, but a very special one, and who had lived there? 188.150.75.162 (talk) 21:24, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Red Army arrival 

message: "Hitler invariably sat in the same seat between Jodl and Otto Dietrich..."
No, he didn't. A big point of all Hitler biographies is the fall-of-1942 conflict with Jodl and other military advisors, where a sore Hitler ended up taking his meals alone or with the secretaries. The "Führer table" arrangement was never restored. 2A02:AA1:162F:CDC3:4CCE:A3BC:3D98:8A9D (talk) 16:17, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Seating position 

message: I have reinstated the two maps in the infobox that were rather cavalierly removed by Sca several years ago, apparently on the grounds that they don't show the historic borders, but rather the modern ones. Well, of course they do! That is where the Wolf's Lair is now. A locator map would be a bit confusing if it only showed the reality that existed in the 1940s. The more localized upper map at least shows the old German names for the towns and cities in the region, and if it helps, you can pretend that the one border shown there is not there (all that territory was German until 1945). Though it may have been in Germany during the time when it was a significant security installation, the Wolf's Lair is nowadays unequivocally (since 2+4) in Poland. I'm sorry if that ruffles any feathers, but that's how it is now. Kelisi (talk) 06:43, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Maps