Talk:Peter Canavan/Archive 1

message: There is a good photo of Canavan's goal in the 2005 All Ireland. The only problem is that it is from the Flickr user that I mentioned on the [talk page] - he hasn't give n full Creative commons clearance. It would be a good pic to use mid article, notas the main picture, because it doens't show his face.--Macca7174 01:51, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thie photo I was talking about has since been removed because it is not cleared.--Macca7174 20:17, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Photo

message: This articles says he was playing for Tyrone before his club this doesn't make sense(Gnevin 17:00, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: He was spotted when he was playing in his school teams, and rose up through the underage ranks. THe reason he hadn't played for his club was because there had been a rift between Ballygawley clubs, that led to them not being formally recognised by the Tyrone Board. It's complicated, and I don't know the entire details, but there was a Hogan Stand link describing the situation from the time.--Macca7174 17:26, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Dates

message: It maybe time to nomimate this article for  as it's one of the best gaa articles what you think  (Gnevin 23:19, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hey, give it a few weeks, pls. I am back in Ireland and have access to a few books that will be useful (including his 'memoirs' or sorts from 2003) so I will try to improve the article a bit more. cheers--Macca7174 01:35, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok when you ready you can nominate your self (Gnevin 09:21, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The article has now been nominated for peer review.--Macca7174 18:11, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The only feedback we've got so far has been automated. automated responses help formalise the article, but it's not as helpful as we would like.--Macca7174 16:53, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That maybe all we do get , if we don't get anything useful i will consider nominating for WP:GA and will definitely get feedback from that(Gnevin 17:58, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

text: How long is the peer review status maintained usually?? A week, I assume, going by the Nom for Deletion procedure.--Macca7174 16:12, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Its changes its last until it get right too the bottom of the peer review page (Gnevin 12:51, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have removed the peer-review tag, and will put the archive on this page.--Macca7174 20:14, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

text: I have fixed the article so that it satisfies the automated reviews, but some human input would be much more useful I think.--Macca7174 17:28, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going to remove this from peer review now. I don't know how to archive the suggestions, but I will save them in Talk:Peter Canavan, and get a more experienced user to do this properly.--Macca7174 20:14, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Time to nominate for peer review

message: APR t 21:00, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have fixed the article so that it satisfies the automated reviews, but some human input would be much more useful I think.--Macca7174 17:28, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm going to remove this from peer review now. I don't know how to archive the suggestions, but I will save them in Talk:Peter Canavan, and get a more experienced user to do this properly.--Macca7174 20:14, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Peer Review: Archive

message: I went ahead and nominated this for WP:GA. I hope this wasn't too bold, but Gnevin had already considered this about 10-12 days ago if we didn't get decent feedback from the Peer-Review. I don't think we did get much help from the Peer Review, apart from a few policy-adhering adjustments.--Macca7174 20:41, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not a GA reviewer and don't know that much about it, but a few points would be: As said on the talk page, the article needs an image, but this could be difficult to get. The headings need to be checked so that none (unless needed) have capitals on the words after the fist (ie. Other Competitions -> Other competitions). Besides that the prose is good, and the referencing is perfectly fine. As said I'm not going to make the decisoion as to pass or fail this, but it seems pretty good. And thanks for the feedback on 'Round Springfield, much appreaciated. Gran2 15:51, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: that's ok - thanks for the feedback.--Macca7174 17:29, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Should it of been put on hold for 2 weeks for such a minor failing ? (Gnevin 01:35, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Good Article

message: Afraid I'm going to have to fail this GA nomination: 
1.) Well written? Although a lot of information is in the article it is separated into too many small sections. There are many one sentence paragraphs that would be better either, expanded into full paragraphs or combined with others. The lead could probably be expanded for this length of article. Templates are normally found at the bottom of the article and in my opinion this would be preferable so that the prose is not broken up.
2.) factually accurate? The references look good with most statements having a citation. The information about his family in personal life could do with a reference.
3.) broad in its coverage? Yes covers all main aspects but could have more information without becoming excessively long.
4.) neutral point of view? Yes
5.) stable? Yes
6.) contains images? Fair use with rationale.
Overall it is close to GA status however needs a tidy up of the sections and improvement in the flow of paragraphs. Hope this helps you improve the article - I'm sure it can make GA status in the near future. - Suicidalhamster 23:53, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Should it of been put on hold for 2 weeks for such a minor failing ? (Gnevin 01:35, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fail GA

message: I have no idea about gaelic football, but I did take 5-10 minutes to read the page. A few thoughts:
* Refs good
* Never really good to have red links, what I would do, is just have it as normal black.
* Pictures (although you don't need it for GA standard), it would be good to have a picture, probably around the 2003 section.
* Is there anyway to convert the templates into one, they seem to take up a HUGE amount of room!!
Only my opinion; hope that's helped! Neldav 19:21, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Re-Nom feedback

message: Wp:mos#Wording states "In a heading, capitalize only the first letter of the first word and the first letter of any proper nouns, and leave all of the other letters in lowercase." The following changes need to be made:
*Under Age career → Under-age career
*Early Senior career → Early senior career 
*Late Senior career → Late senior career
*Inter-county Retirement → Inter-county retirement
::'Senior' is from the title of a competition, the All-Ireland Senior Football Championship, and is the more formal use of the term. I would argue that senior remains capitalised. I should have spotted retirement though. Sorry.--Macca7174 19:51, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Is the capitalisation of 'senior' still an issue, or was my reasoning sound?--Macca7174 17:51, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry I didn't come by sooner. I apparently removed the article from my watchlist, which I did not intend to do. Moving along, I think that should be fine. LaraLoveT/C 05:49, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Titles

message: Wp:lead#Provide_an_accessible_overview states "The lead should be capable of standing alone as a concise overview of the article, establishing context, summarizing the most important points, explaining why the subject is interesting or notable, and briefly describing its notable controversies, if there are any." The lead of this article does not accomplish this. 
Wp:lead#Length states "The appropriate length of the lead section depends on the total length of the article. As a general guideline, the lead should be no longer than three to four paragraphs." For this article, I believe its length justifies no more than three paragraphs.
::Do you recommend merging paragraphs 2&3 into one large paragraph?--Macca7174 19:51, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The four paragraphs look good right now. I need to read through and verify that all information in the lead is expanded upon in the article, but as I read just the lead, it looks fine now. --LaraLoveT/C 04:42, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Lead

message: *First paragraph:
**In first sentence, what is a "GAA"? This needs to be spelled out, wikified (if possible), and GAA put into parenthesis.
**Also in first sentence, "bye" → "by". (Note: I found out that it can be spelled byelaw, although bylaw seems to be more common. If byelaw is the common spelling in Ireland, that would be the proper spelling for the article. Sorry for any inconvenience.) --LaraLoveT/C 05:17, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Under Age career

message: *"Tyrone Seniors" → "Tyrone seniors". Or is this a team? This is not explained. 
*"...a claim given weight by the fact that earlier in the year, they won their first National League." - The comma needs to be removed, I believe. (NTS: Check difference in standards for commas between American and British use.)
*"Tyrone were heavy favourites..." - (NTS: Check for possible difference in standards between bands and sports teams in regards to pluralization.)
*"Canavan won his fourth All Star that year, the only Tyrone player to do so, which may go some way to emphasizing the value of his presence on the team." - There is unnecessarily placed on the line following the first paragraph. It needs to be backspaced to be the last sentence. Additionally, the use of "—" would be more appropriate than commas. Even parenthesis would be more appropriate.
*This also made him Tyrone's most represented player on the All Star Roll of Honour, overtaking Eugene McKenna, his manager at the time. - Citation.
=====2003: Championship glory=====
*"He started the match, and was taken off before half time." - Remove the comma.
*"His appearance in the Final was remarkable" - Should Final be capitalized?
*Space between the second and third paragraph.
*"With seven minutes remaining, he was re-introduced by manager Mickey Harte, a shrewd, albeit necessary, move, considering Canavan was the only member of the team who had played in an All-Ireland final before, in 1995." → "With seven minutes remaining, he was reintroduced by manager Mickey Harte. It was a shrewd—albeit necessary—move, considering Canavan was the only member of the team who had previous played in an All-Ireland final." The year is irrelevant and causes the sentence to read awkwardly. 
*"...player's legacy, and inspiration, and..." - Remove the comma after legacy.
*"...due to Stephen O'Neill, the first choice penalty-taker, being on the bench." → "...due to Stephen O'Neill (the first choice penalty-taker), being on the bench."
*"He took the kick, and managed to find the net, which he now describes as..." → "He took the kick and managed to find the net. He later described the kick as..."
======BBC Sports Personality of the Year======
*Change the - to — (the second dash, found in the "Insert" bar under the save page button) and remove spaces.
**Are you sure the spaces should be removed—it looks too much like the word has been hyphenated?--Macca7174 17:51, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Late Senior career

message: *"He started the match, and was taken off before half time." - Remove the comma.
*"His appearance in the Final was remarkable" - Should Final be capitalized?
*Space between the second and third paragraph.
*"With seven minutes remaining, he was re-introduced by manager Mickey Harte, a shrewd, albeit necessary, move, considering Canavan was the only member of the team who had played in an All-Ireland final before, in 1995." → "With seven minutes remaining, he was reintroduced by manager Mickey Harte. It was a shrewd—albeit necessary—move, considering Canavan was the only member of the team who had previous played in an All-Ireland final." The year is irrelevant and causes the sentence to read awkwardly. 
*"...player's legacy, and inspiration, and..." - Remove the comma after legacy.
*"...due to Stephen O'Neill, the first choice penalty-taker, being on the bench." → "...due to Stephen O'Neill (the first choice penalty-taker), being on the bench."
*"He took the kick, and managed to find the net, which he now describes as..." → "He took the kick and managed to find the net. He later described the kick as..."
======BBC Sports Personality of the Year======
*Change the - to — (the second dash, found in the "Insert" bar under the save page button) and remove spaces.
**Are you sure the spaces should be removed—it looks too much like the word has been hyphenated?--Macca7174 17:51, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: 2003: Championship glory

message: *Change the - to — (the second dash, found in the "Insert" bar under the save page button) and remove spaces.
**Are you sure the spaces should be removed—it looks too much like the word has been hyphenated?--Macca7174 17:51, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: BBC Sports Personality of the Year

message: *First paragraph:
**What's an 'impact substitute'? Also, the 's should be changed to "s.
**De-wikilink 2005.
**"...the Tyrone manager Mickey Harte chose Canavan..." We just established in the previous section that the manager is Mickey Harte.
**"All Ireland Final" - In the previous section it was "All Ireland final". There is an inconsistency in the capitalization of final. I presume it should not be capitalized, but whichever is correct, it needs to be consistent throughout the article.
**The sentence would be better if written more like "Despite this, the Tyrone manager chose Canavan on the starting line-up of the All Ireland final. This proved to be a great tactical decision for the team, as he was instrumental in the defeat of Kerry, scoring Tyrone's only goal resulting in a win on a scoreline of 1-16 to 2-10.[40]" Or something like that. Less commas, more periods.
**He recieved a pass from Eoin Mulligan on the edge" - Missing period. Also, it doesn't make sense, possibly because I don't understand the sport. Edge of what? If this is obvious to a fan, ignore me here.
***This was a markup error on my part - I was hiding an image, but had hidden some of the copy as well. It is now resolved.--Macca7174 17:51, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: 2005: Championship swan song

message: *"'playing through'" - Remove the 's.
*"forty ninth" → "forty-ninth"
*"All Star" → "All-star"
**The title is actually All Star - the inconsistency in the article has now been addressed.--Macca7174 17:51, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Inter-county Retirement

message: *Many are not currently formatted correctly. Fields omitted in tag unnecessarily.
**What does this mean?--Macca7174 17:51, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: References

message: *:Image:Petercanavan.jpg
**Infoboxes images MUST be free images when depicting a living person. This one must be removed.
***This image has been deleted, unfairly in my opinion - it definately does depict a historical moment - i was working my way to taking it out of the infobox.--Macca7174 19:25, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Images

message: This article reads more like one for Tyrone than for Canavan, at times.
The prose is not up to standards; the article requires a substantial amount of rewording. There are several MOS issues. Overall, it's not a bad article. It definitely has potential, but these issues need to be addressed before renomination. 
If you have any questions regarding my suggestions, please feel free to drop a line on my talk page. If you feel this decision was made in error, you can request a review. Thank you for your hard work so far, and good luck with future edits.
Regards, LaraLoveT/C 05:51, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I wish you weren't so quick to fail the Nominee - a lot of these issues could be addressed quite quickly, or need to be discussed further, we just needed time to see them first. Putting the article on hold would have been more productive I think.--Macca7174 15:31, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think i could be sent for review , i mean of the expansive list about it is currently failing 2 minor things  Good Article Review , this is the most comprehensive GA review i've ever seen , good work by LaraLove but i think its slight harsh . (Gnevin 19:30, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: If you didn't agree with the failure, you could have taken it to GA/R. However, I failed it because of the volume of issues. It failed quick-fail criteria, but I think articles should be given thorough reviews, so I did so anyway. I'm glad progress has been made, but it still doesn't meet standards, which leads me to believe my decision was justified. I've added some issues I've noted with references above. Keep up the good work. --LaraLoveT/C 05:49, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Could you point us towards any particular MoS issues that need to be addressed??--Macca7174 15:03, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Conclusion: Failed