Talk:Dick Cheney/Archive 2

message: Is this really so major an event as to require its own heading?  Feels like trivia to me. Waltersobchak 20:21, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Premature obituary

message: The article originally stated his wife was "and co-host of Crossfire" Other then pointing to the wrong crossfire article, the real crossfire article didn't mention Cheney's wife as ever being a co-host. I have no idea if she was but if she was, the crossfire article should be amended to mention it.
:She was.  I verified it on IMDB, her official biography at the White House web site, and on her Wikipedia page.  So I added it back in to the paragraph about her, and also that she is a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute.  I also added her name to the list of co-hosts in the Crossfire article.Brandon39 17:23, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Cheney's wife

message: Something about Cheney's involvement with this issue should perhaps be in the article. See eg Vice President for Torture. Rd232 talk 13:17, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: US/Interrogation Controversy

message: Isn't Cheney infamous for setting up the regulations so that he could funnel money through no-bid contracts, and avoid governmental oversight? Shouldn't that be mentioned, as pork spending is well-known to be skyrocketing under the Bush Jr Administration.
Um...no. And "Bush Jr" is incorrect as the current president's name is not the same as his father.--Hbutterfly 00:28, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cheney & pork spending 

message: Why isn't Cheney's daughter Mary lesbianism mentioned here?   It seems quite notable.
-Justforasecond 16:59, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  lesbian daughter mary? 

message: For this he has been characterized in later years as a "Chickenhawk."
So are we going to start quoting everyone who hates the Vice President? This is really just a partisan attempt to attack VP Cheney.--Hbutterfly 00:26, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  huh? 

message: I've occasionally seen the term "Cheneyism" used legitimately to describe Cheney's politics, but it's always remained very vague. Is "Cheneyism" firmly established enough to justify starting an article on it? - 9 Feb 2006
:Only time will tell.--220.238.172.194 10:31, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Cheneyism

message: “Shouting slogans like ‘Hail to the Thief’ and ‘Selected, Not Elected,’ tens of thousands of protesters descended on George W. Bush's inaugural parade route on Janueary 21,2001, to proclaim that he and Vice President Dick Cheney had ‘stolen’ the election.” Michael Kranish and Sue Kirchhoff, “Thousands Protest ‘Stolen’ Election,” Boston Globe, January 21, 2001.
Why is this under the Halliburton section?--Hbutterfly 19:57, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  misplaced 

message: --Greasysteve13 07:08, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It was a 28 gauge shotgun, so bullets is an incorrect wrong term to use.  Whittington was hit by some of the pellets. Abe Froman 22:12, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

text: 28 gauge shotguns are smaller than the perhaps more typical 12 gauge; some google-based research suggests that typical 28-gauge shells contain about 3/4 oz of birdshot pellets which would be distributed over a circle of a yard or so in diameter at 35 yards.  suggests that Whittington was hit by about 50 pellets, but does not say what size pellets were involved.  A table in  suggests that, for birdshot 50 pellets could be anywhere between 2% and 75% of the shell contents, but other sites suggest that something between #7 1/2 and #9 shot would be typical for quail hunting, so something closer to the low end of the range seems more likely.   --Sommerfeld 23:36, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

text: The Smoking Gun has the accident report, which (among other things) says that #7 1/2 shot was used, and there was a minor violation  of Texas hunting regulations - it appears that neither Cheney nor Whittington had purchased a $7 upland bird hunting stamp; apparently this is a new regulation and as a result they only warn violators and collect the $7 after the fact.   --Sommerfeld 02:41, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

text: I realize that details are sketchy in this accident, but I must say I'm having a hard time reconstructing how the shooting happened from the accounts that have been given.  I can't even see the answer to the most basic question:  where were the quail that the Vice President was shooting at, and where was Harry Huffington at in relation to the VP Cheney and the quail?  What was the contour of the land, was Huffington approaching the group from behind or from in front, how far away was the covey of quail?  I honestly don't see how the Vice President could not have seen a human being in his gunsight if he was only 30-35 yards away, especially if the quail were behind him but even if (unlikely) the quail were between Cheney and Huffington.  I am not a conspiracy buff, but I do not think this story adds up.  Jeitel 15:17, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you mean Whittington rather than Huffington?  I've seen more than a few first-person anecdotal reports (such as ,  and ) from people with firearms and hunting experience suggesting that this sort of hunting accident is actually quite common, and may often go unreported.  Read critically -- at least in the US, hunters tend towards the conservative end of the spectrum so you'll see quite a bit of pro-Cheney spin mixed into these reports -- but they also contain a body  of potentially verifiable facts about the nature of quail hunting.  Anyhow, it appears that typical quail hunting involves walking through tall grass where the birds are believed to be hiding; at some point the birds will startle and take off in random directions -- think of how pigeons in city parks react to people and/or dogs walking towards them -- and at that point the hunters aim and shoot at the flying birds.   Press reports indicate that the victim had stopped to pick up a bird he had shot and then caught up to the party without announcing his return, so it seems quite plausible that one or more birds ended up flying between him and Cheney.--Sommerfeld 16:12, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What's the difference between bird shot and regular shot? Size? Hamilton burr 18:49, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  How many bullets? 

message: Shouldn't "Hunting accident" precede "Plans for the future" in this bio?
--RobbieFal 04:13, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that it should. KSchwartz 04:47, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Placement of the Hunting Accident segment 

message: The link to the Rolling Stone article is broken. It should point here:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/6450422/the_curse_of_dick_cheney/
Can somebody fix this? Thanks.
:Done.  Thanks for the heads up.  --AStanhope 16:31, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Broken Link 

message: damnit, liberals and bloggers are going to try and spin the hell out of this, look at the version it was protected on! Why is something as minor as a hunting accident even listed in this article! It reads like a blog from the freaking Daily Kos, please clean this up to conform to Neutral POV, and not exploit a minor accident like it's a big deal!--205.188.116.6 16:49, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: NPOV

message: someone listed the size of the shot and the gauge of the shotgun, but is there any info on the composition of the shot? is it lead, or something less toxic? this would have bearing (sorry for teh pun) on the victim's health, as they decided to leave some of the shot in his face. --Ghetteaux 18:30, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  what kind of shot was used? 

message: Is there a reason that Cheney's involvement with this group isn't included?
KV 19:19, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Project for a New American Century 

message: It was birdshot and a 20 gauge
more stuff interesting stuff
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/02/14/mcclellan-conceals-heart-attack/
:The reports I've seen state it was a 28 gauge weapon.KSchwartz 23:17, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  From what I know  

message: Does Cheney get charged with manslaughter?--Hypergeometric2F1[a,b,c,x] 22:11, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I hope so.--Greasysteve13 05:05, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

text: The proper question is can Cheney be impeached if the victim dies? SYSS Mouse 03:19, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: What happens if he dies?

message: "Dick Cheney is the first known Vice President to shoot someone while in office since Aaron Burr"
is this implying that other VPs have shot people secretly?
: You may be on to something...  All those hikers disappeared during Spiro Agnew's Vice Presidency.  :-)  Abe Froman 17:01, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: known VP shooters

message: Does anyone else find it interesting that the section about his recent hunting accident is the longest one in this entire article? Batman2005 07:07, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  I find it interesting 

message: This article is protected due to vandalism on February 13th.  If protection is still warranted, shouldn't it be suitably marked with  or ?  And wouldn't semi-protection be sufficient?
I was going to update the section on the Vice Presidency to reflect the explicit {de}classification powers granted to him by Executive Order 13292, but I guess that's for another time.
BTW, the caption for the photo at right could be tweaked to eliminate a reference to a non-existent 2003 State of the Union address.
Thanks.  66.167.138.49 14:31, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  protection? semi-protection? 

message: By this edit an anon removed the discussion of Cheney's DWI's, stating "this information is in education".  The DWI's were mentioned in the "Education" section, but with only an inaccurate summary plus Cheney's explanation.  I've restored the information to the "Early life and family" section; moved Cheney's explanation to the same section, so that it comes immediately after the details about the convictions; and reduced the "Education" reference to a passing mention, to establish the context of his return to college. JamesMLane t c 08:38, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  DWI information 

message: proposed new photo of Cheney. --DanielCD 15:06, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: New photo

message: The only source for the "other priorities" quote is a Terri McAuliffe statement during a campaign?  I don't think this is in context.  "Other priorities" agrees with the rationale for having the deferements in the first place, namely a wife and family.   Unless a citation for what "other priorities" means, the family context should be added.  In any case, using Terri McAuliffe, the Democrat Party chairman, as a source for a quote that he didn't even hear directly is woefully inadequate.--Tbeatty 19:28, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ahh, the quote has been changed from Terri McAuliffe to other commentaries.  Where is the original article?  QUotes inside commentaries that are decidedely POV against Cheney are just as contrary to Wikipedia as if they had been written directly into the Wiki article.  Please cite the original article.  --Tbeatty 19:38, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Draft Deferments

message: This article says that "Katherine Garcia" reported on the accident. "The Dick Cheney hunting incident" article says "Kathryn Garcia." What is her real name, and which article should be changed?
68.148.168.84 06:19, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hunting incident: what's the reporter's name? 

message: What's the objection to this text?
"Further, there would be serious questions over whether Cheney would be medically fit to serve as President. He is known to be in poor health and would be over 70 years of age by the end of his first term"
Together with the observation that if Cheney did retire, it would effectively allow somebody to be anointed for the GOP nomination. 203.214.45.134 02:03, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's uncited and speculative. WP:ISNOT a crystal ball (or an HMO). JDoorjam     Talk 02:03, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Isn't the first one (that he's well known to be in poor health, and that if he did run and win in '08 he'd be over 70 by the end of his first term) a fact? Or rather, two facts? If there's an objection to 'speculative' content, shouldn't the reference to speculation about his retirement be removed entirely? 203.214.45.134 02:05, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cheney's Health 

message: If I understood the article correctly,the vice president was actually kicked out of Yale due to poor grades. That's too bad.
:I think you need to take some more reading comprehension.--Tbeatty 05:12, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is an encyclopedia and if you can "read between the lines" I would argue it isn't NPOV.  But you're right. It's missing citations for the "poor grades" premise.  I'll agree that it needs a citation before we can conclude he had "poor grades" at Yale.  It does go on to say he was a "straight A" student which also needs a citation.  --Tbeatty 00:03, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kicked out of Yale? 

message: :Subsequent infarctions in 1984, 1988, and 2000 have resulted in moderate contractile dysfunction of his left ventricle and his crooked smile.
Is this correct? His crooked smile is a result of heart problems? --BillC 10:06, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Found a citation at ABC News that claims that Mary Cheney has the same crooked smile.  I don't think a heart attack can cause crooked smiles in your children either! :) -- ShinmaWa(talk) 21:00, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Dick Cheney#Health problems]] 

message: I took this out: "His name is pronounced CHEE-ney, as per an exchange from a December 5, 2000 press conference."
I'm assuming that "CHEE-ney" is supposed to mean /'tʃini/. Anyway, it's false that his name is prononced to rhyme with "meanie". Apparently, that's how people he knew pronounced it when he was growing up, but he says himself in the source given that he will answer to either pronunciation, and /'tʃeni/ is clearly the dominant form. - Nat Krause(Talk!) 05:55, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Pronunciation of name

message: Someone put in a fairly long quotation from Rolling Stone. I cleaned up the formatting (end quote mark) and inserted a ref tag to the article. However, I question whether that section belongs in the article. It's essentially an op-ed article that refers to Cheney's accession to the Chief of Staff position in the Ford Administration as a "palace coup." Citation or no citation, I think it's an NPOV error to include it-- the quotation literally adds no new information to the article, and seems to be present solely to take a cheap shot at Cheney. (Substantively I think there's a factual error in the op-ed as well-- it refers to Cheney forcing out a Secretary of Defense who'd already [I think] been sacked when Cheney became Chief of Staff.) I'm inclined to delete it after an appropriate discussion period. Any thoughts? DCB4W 04:11, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: NPOV Redux

message: Regarding the US invasion of Panama and the Gulf War, please note that official policy is to avoid propaganda names as article titles, and the explanation as well as the mere policy of NPOV clearly show they should be avoided if possible altogether. Añoranza 00:33, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That is for article titles, please read more carefully. This has been pointed out to you about 9 times now. --zero faults |sockpuppets| 11:53, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The reasons given for the guideline in no way hold less for text in an article than for an article title. As you insist on keeping propaganda in the article, I have to place a POV-tag. Añoranza 11:59, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry it doesn't work that way. The guideline is for titles as you were told by the MILHIST group themselves and does not apply to article space. --zero faults |sockpuppets| 12:08, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As you know very well, the reasoning for the article names clearly implies that propaganda is not neutral in the text either. Añoranza 13:03, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Unfortunatly the group that made the guideline does not agree with you. --zero faults |sockpuppets| 13:04, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As you like to point out when it fits you, it is only a guideline, and your summary is misleading. Añoranza 13:24, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Considering you are no longer debating the point anymore, instead engaging in some sort of "innuendo", I will no longer by replying to you in this thread until a point is actually debated. --zero faults |sockpuppets| 13:26, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

text: "Gulf War" is ambiguous (as you can see in the article on it). As to "Operation Just Cause", I think "United States invasion of Panama" is unambiguous and would be OK. You can't "direct" a conflict (such as the 1991 Gulf War), but you can direct an invation or other campaign/operation. --GunnarRene 13:45, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: As an aside, the name "Desert Storm" is less POV than "Just Cause". --GunnarRene 14:56, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Propaganda names - Neutrality disputed 

message: I can't find any source that lists Dick Cheney as a junior, or his father as a senior. I added two fact tags, which should remain there until it's proven that's his real name. --MZMcBride 03:23, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: He's not a "junior".  Dick Cheney's full name is "Richard Bruce Cheney".  His father is "Richard Herbert Cheney" .   Since their names are technically different, they do not have the "junior/senior" moniker.  This is just like "George Walker Bush" is not the junior of "George Herbert Walker Bush".  -- ShinmaWa(talk) 15:52, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Early life section 

message: Perhaps change "Criticisms of Obama" to "Criticisms of Barack Obama". It just seems more encyclopedic to me, especially for people who come to the page especially to find out about his criticisms of Obama. I know there are really no other Obama's he'd criticise, but it just seems more appropriate. Ignore it if you want, just a suggestion.  60.234.236.221 (talk) 02:04, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit suggestion 

message: wash post mon 11 may 2011 
dick cheney with end stage heart disease
considering heart transplant
see washpost for complete info 
69.72.27.200 (talk) 16:25, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. — Bility (talk) 18:26, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

text: UPI is reporting on current statements by Cheney. There doesn't appear to be much of anything that is new: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2011/01/05/Cheney-may-seek-heart-transplant/UPI-44151294243041/.Jarhed (talk) 19:20, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request from 69.72.27.200, 9 May 2011 

message: Reference 68 has a dead link. Archive.org has the page at:
http://web.archive.org/web/20100412120227/http://www.nationaljournal.com/about/njweekly/stories/2005/1122nj1.htm
Amlorusso (talk) 01:05, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Done and correctly I hope. --Jnorton7558 (talk) 03:02, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request from Amlorusso, 1 September 2011 

message: Hey I guess someone will fix this. He couldn't have been one of Reagans "early" supporters. April 1980? I'd consider now to be "early". Someone just endorsed Rick Perry the other day. Thats early. The Reagan equivalent to early would be closer to september of 79. You guys(wikipedia) made it hard to edit. I tried this one time back in like 2005.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.109.76.225 (talk) 03:49, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled