Talk:Hume and Hovell expedition

message: I will write a longer account of the expedition when I get time. AC
I just put a note here but a vandal deleted it, that the account on the article page is wrong.  I also put the map is wrong.  I just looked at the map more closely.  It is actually correct but has a bit chopped out of it, near the 1824 note.  Anyone looking at this map if you check, will see that it shows the southern route, then return journeys.  An area at the start of the southern journey has been erased.  
Also, the rivers are marked wrongly if anyone tallies them from the Tumut River, south.  The mountain range to the south west of the Tumut R is the Muniong Range that contains Mt Yaven.  
Lots of times maps were made by peopel in Sydney/Melb who had no idea of the country inland especially in 1824, so easy to get lost.
NSWNP acknowledge that they have marked H and Hs route incorrectly.  The journals are correct just everyone reads them incorrectly, then decides themselves where the places are.  Adam , if you check with NP at Tumut they will verify this.  Thanks for the map.  I had seen it previously but not enlarged. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.54.9.162 (talk) .
This will make the Ovens on the map, todays Murray.  Charles Sturt in his 1838 expedition identified the Hume as a rive rthat comes off the Murrumbidgee.  On this map it looks like Yaven Ck but I suspect its the creek near Humula and have someone there sussign that out for me.  There was a marked (with Hovells initials) tree on Humula Station (now gone).  
What we call creeks these days ran like rivers in the 1820s because of the snow melt and no dams.  Online somewhere is a naming protocol for whether streams are streams, brooks, rivers, rivlets, etc from UK geo placenmaes trad from the 1700/1800s.  Puts stuf fin context especially re aussie explorers.  Creek is an American Indian word.  It might not be online.  It might be on database.  Makes a person wonder where the Tumut (Dumot R) was as it has other names including well known as The Medway, (from Medway in UK and migration from that Shire by Lucas' et all re Norfolk Is, then to VDL then across to SE Oz).  Above Humula is Umbutee (Dumot) the songman.  I wonder also if its anything to do with Dumut D'Urville[sic] given the area is Terre Napoleon.  Who'd know.  That area was full of slaves so hidden. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.54.9.162 (talk) .
Whatever, the Hume River is not the previous name of the Murray River.  'They' moved a thing or two to hide stuff but also re the carve up just where the NSW/Vic border actually wa sin 1851.  NSW wanted the riverina.  The UK decreed the border had to be on south bank of the Murrumbidgee, so guess what the NSW aussies did.  (They moved where things were so they fitted stuff into how the UK demanded.)  Murrum/murray/murri means path so easy to say it or just call it, The River.  Beeja that bidgee came from is an Indigenous Elder. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.54.9.162 (talk) .
Good clue when reading the journals is some of the vegetation.  Bog oaks neve rgrew along the Murray.  I know the route though so easy to find it in the journals.  Likewise with Sturt which is wrong on the map.  Sturt went by land along the north side of the river well away from the river, from Gundagai to Narrandera,(cutting out that bend in the river), where he then put his boat into the river.  No one would tow a really heavy boat carriage along the river bank between Gundagai and Narrandera as they would bog.  This is verifed in Sturts 1838 journal where he notes 1838 was the first time he had travelled along the actual river to the immediate south of Gundagai. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.54.9.162 (talk) .
I know Maribyrnong River and Jacksons Creek really well.  They didnt go that way.  I know Westernport very well.  I think Hovell was correct.  Hume and Hovell had a grand row.  Stuff had to be moved to hide other stuff.  Would make a book. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.54.9.162 (talk) .
**I was just reading copies of the original documents of when the four towns (Gundgaai, Albury, Wangaratta and Seymour) were proposed to be established, and were.  Only four rivers are noted by the Gov to match the four towns.  
In order I'd presume: The Murray, The Ovens, Violet Creek and The Goulburn.  (State Reocrds of NSW, Colonial Secretary's Letters Received, 4/2476.1.  Signed by GG, (George Gipps) June 28, 1838.  Two pages over it gives the desirded number of mounted police at these places/new towns to be. Murray 12 (3 mounted, 9 infantry), Ovens 5 (5,0), Violet Creek 5 (5,0), Goulburn 12 (3, 9).  Given that order it might be assumed that the two places with 12 were at either end and the two with les spolice, in the middle to be supplemented by the next towns as required?.
'Broken River' is referred to a lot.  The only one of all of them I know that broke in that sense, is the one I am on and it did that big time.  
Humula Stn is on Umbango Creek so the carved tree was in the middle of that creek.  (The is a photo of a tree with H and H initals on it,  in Vic Archives). It doesnt matter if the former name we call the murray by these days wasnt the hume, or if the murri is the murrim.beeja.  What matters is that stuff has obviously been moved.  Easy to read stuff wrong if 100 others did it previously either deliberately or by accident.  Emporers new clothes stuff.
:Ms Anon, please don't refer to other good faith editors as vandals. This is easily interpreted as a personal attack and will lead to your being blocked again. This is the last warning I am going to give you about calling other editors names. Sarah Ewart (Talk) 04:12, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

message: These maps are inaccurate, so far as the Tatong/Fern Hills camping place is depicted, November 27th 1824. The monument, and the diary, puts them South of Tatong on the Hollands Branch - yet the map here (map 3) shows them in Molyullah on the 27th and Whitegate, North of Tatong, on the 28th.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by AndiJoan (talk • contribs) 01:12, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  incorrect maps