Talk:Anaerobic digestion

message: Hi all. Just a note to for article improvements and requirements for new sections/structure:
*One-stage and two-stage anaerobic digestion systems
*High solids and low solid systems
*Mesophilic and thermophilic systems
--Alex 09:41, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Required article improvements

message: The article states that the energy consumption is larger than the energy output from the plant (Last section under the Reactor types heading)I find this very unlikely and contradictory to articles I've read on the subject. For example, in the article "Kompostering eller rötning? En jämförande studie med LCA-metodik" by Nilsson, B. (1997) (this article is refered to in another article thats available online: "Life Cycle Assessments of Energy from Solid Waste" by Finnveden et. al. (2000) ) inventory data was collected at the digestion plant in Kristianstad, Sweden wich shows that the energy content of the methane gas collected from the anaerobic digestion is 3743 MJ/ton food waste, and of that only 495 MJ is used internally at the plant. 
-- KristoferP 15:02, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well spotted. Whoever wrote this addition badly worded their intentions. I have deleted this. On most major AD facilities there is a net output of electricity. The operational facility I worked at at Hiriya, Tel Aviv had an energy output 5 times the plants operational requirements.--Alex 16:38, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Energy output? 

message: Technically I believe there should be some reworking of this. I have created the Category: Anaerobic digestion as there is a significant number of articles that are linked to this subject. I am in two minds if to merge anaerobic digesters with biogas powerplants and to merge anaerobic digestion with anaerobic decomposition. Anaerobic digesters and biogas power plants are the physical buildings constructed to make use of the process of anaerobic digestion/decomposition.
There is a lot of similarity between anaerobic digestion/anaerobic digesters and biogas powerplants. Technically there is very little difference between the two and I am tempted to suggest a merger of the two articles. --Alex 08:15, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merging Anaerobic Decomposition with Anaerobic Digestion, Biogas Power Plants merger with Anaerobic Digesters and related redirects! 

message: If a great deal of money were invested, could large scale implementation of anaerobic digesters be sufficient to reduce America's (and other industrialzed nations') natural gas consumption?  Natural gas appears to be causing the same kind of geopolitical problems as petroleum and yet all signs point toward the problem getting worse.  Is anaerobic digestion a potential solution?  In neither the anaerobic digestion nor the Biogas articles can I find information on how much potential the technologies have for reducing natural gas consumption.  If most American cities topped out the anaerobic digestion potential of sewage and other waste matter would their natural gas consumption only go down slightly, or might it drop considerably?   Ideally I'd like to see America remain independent of LNG imports, but I have no idea if that's possible with anaerobic digestion.
Yes, by utilising the correct AD technologies that enable the highest concentrations of methane in the biogas it is possible to reduce natural gas consumption. In less pure biogas streams, cleaning or scubbing of the gas may be required. If you are interested in the subject please see the links on my profile or email me. --Alex 07:57, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Could large scale anaerobic digestion reduce natural gas consumption? 

message: This page requires more detail on reactor types. A brief contrast should be made between sludge reactors, UASB reactors and EGSB treating dilute waste waters. --Alex 14:55, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notes 

message: The link to reference 7 ( ^Cruazon, B. (2007) History of anaerobic digestion, web.pdx.edu. Retrieved 17.08.07.) is dead.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.191.150.2 (talk) 11:08, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I had no problem with Ref. 7, but some of them are dead, like 12 and 58. Phorious (talk) 19:49, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dead links 

message: Biogas digester redirected to Biogas, so I've redirected it here instead. 
The question is: does "biogas digester" mean basically the same thing as "anaerobic digester," or is one a subset of the other? (I'm guessing that almost all anaerobic digesters capture the biogas.) 
I'm interested in the appropriate technology side of this, and would like to help develop info on biogas digesters used in the developing world or small-scale settings... however, I haven't yet found good sources suitable for an encyclopedic article. Can anyone suggest good sources? -Singkong2005 talk 03:21, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Biogas digesters 

message: The U.S. city of Akron, Ohio is planning to build a plant, apparently to be the first ever in the United States. The mayor had been inspired after seeing a plant in Europe. Badagnani 07:04, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Akron, Ohio]] plant 

message: :GA review (see here for criteria)
#It is reasonably well written.
#:a (prose):  b (MoS): 
#It is factually accurate and verifiable.
#:a (references):  b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR): 
#It is broad in its coverage.
#:a (major aspects):  b (focused): 
#It follows the neutral point of view policy.
#:a (fair representation):  b (all significant views): 
#It is stable.
#:
#It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.
#:a (tagged and captioned):  b lack of images (does not in itself exclude GA):  c (non-free images have fair use rationales): 
#Overall: 
#:a Pass/Fail: 
Good overall. This article may be little confusing to those who're not in scientific fields.
* "The carbon in biodegradable waste is part of a carbon cycle, as such the carbon released from the combustion of biogas can be thought of as having been removed by plants in the recent past." What does "recent past" mean? State the year or decade.
* Majority sections are unreferenced, including:
** Most of "Stages of anaerobic digestion", "Process configuration"
** Whole section of "Products of anaerobic digestion", "Feedstock considerations", "Consideration of suitability"
Please fix these and inform me when you are complete. OhanaUnitedTalk page 22:16, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Further reworking has now been done, I welcome any further comments.--Alex 09:15, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:   Looks much better now. I announce that this article passes GA standard. OhanaUnitedTalk page 13:44, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: GA Review

message: *Comments I enjoyed reading this; it's accessible and I learned much. As science and I are frequently complete strangers, this is a major plus. I have some criticisms. Fun though the assyrian bathwater anecdote might be, isn't there a more substantial source to back it up? And, incidentally, some of the shorter sections are scarcely referenced at all. Finally, WP:MOS#Dates isn't keen on superscript for ordinals (e.g. 17th century). --ROGER DAVIES TALK 13:14, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks. I'll abstain for the moment though as I'd like to see what other editors with a firmer science footing say. --ROGER DAVIES TALK 07:24, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

text: "After sorting or screening to remove physical contaminants, such as metals and plastics, from the feedstock the material is often shredded, minced, or hydrocrushed[19] to increase the surface area available to microbes in the digesters and hence increase the speed of digestion. The material is then fed into an airtight digester where the anaerobic treatment takes place." This belongs in a different section.
** and accepted, it was definately not appropriate here.--Alex 08:04, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments from FAC Nomination Withdrawal

message: Taking a look at the organization of the article, I would suggest a few changes. I'm not entirely sure how to go on this, so I'll post discussion here. Now unless I'm wildly mistaken, we don't normally use a "background" section on articles, so I would consider moving the History section up to a ==level 2 heading==, move "applications" to level 2 heading at the end and combine "climate change" and "suitability" into it. Consider putting "biochemistry" into a different section, or merge several sections into one. Some of the section headings could be more descriptive; consider changing "complexity" because it is too generic.  I think there are too many headings, which is why I (temporarily) forced it not to show the deeper headings. For example, 'hydrogen sulfide' and 'siloxanes' don't really need their own headings; consider just putting them all under the level 3 heading Biogas refinement. I usually only use up to level 3 headings anyway. I'll think it over some more and see if there's a better way to organize it; once it is better organized, it will be much easier to work on. Also, on the image [[:
Image:Stages of anaerobic digestion.JPG]] did you mean Protein->amino acids? Forgive and please fix my American spellings; I probably won't be able to consistently write the British ones. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 04:01, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Jeff, worked in the above changes, don't have any problems with them. Regarding the image, the protein->protein section is correct (proteins arent affected by the hydrolysis stage). No problems on the american spellings will alter things where appropriate.--Alex 12:09, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Been giving some more thought to the proteins:amino acids issue. I have decided that the original graph was not necessarily quite as close to reality. There is quite a blurred line between what is hydrolysis, acidogenesis and acetogenesis in the literature. Without getting too complicate I have decided that Jeff's comments above are of relevance and incorporated amino acids and fatty acids into the flow chat whilst blurring the strict lines between the 4 stages.Alex 08:41, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Sounds good to me. I have reworded the last paragraph you added on critique of AD. I think it came across as a little too negative. I have altered it to keep it factual and NPOV. Digestion is reliable as long as people operate the systems correctly. Also the monitoring equipment is well developed, it really comes down to ensuring you understand the process and don't put the wrong materials in. I have added more information on seeding the digesters. The article may also require something more on solids content but haven't thought how to tackle this yet. I agree with the above comments, there is a little redundancy and duplication in some sections--Alex Marshall 10:42, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Following the comments below from Valela and the above comments I have created a new article Comparison of anaerobic and aerobic digestion which contains elements distinguishing between the two processes. I agree that it didn't really sit well and I wasn't overly happy with it.--Alex Marshall 15:07, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Organization 

message: The article is clearly getting expanded for the better; all this new material needs to be integrated. In the applications section, for example, we have:
*"Anaerobic digestion is particularly suited to wet organic material and is commonly used for effluent and sewage treatment"
And then 3 paragraphs later:
*"Pressure from environmentally-related legislation on solid waste disposal methods in developed countries has increased the application of anaerobic digestion as a process for reducing waste volumes and generating useful by-products"
I suggest grouping the material into level 3 headings: "Waste treatment", "Renewable energy", "Greenhouse gas reduction" or something along those lines, underneath the level 2 heading "Applications". Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 19:07, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Applications section layout

message: I'm confused about the anaerobic lagoon. The article doesn't talk about the purpose of the lagoon, so the caption should mention what it's being used for. Also, if it is exposed to the air, probably should explain why it is anaerobic (sludge buried at the bottom has no access to air?). Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 03:21, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. Also a similar comment was left by Valela on my talk page. I have included mention of anaeorbic lagoons on the single stage system, which in essence is what it is. As you outline it is the stationary water which isolates the oxygen from the system.--Alex Marshall 08:49, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anaerobic Lagoon 

message: Alex, as requested I have been reviewing the Anaerobic digestion article which is an immense improvement on the stub that I originally started editing. It is a considerable credit to the few main contributors and editors.
However, I do have some reservations and I have made one edit to try and set it better in its wider context. To me anaerobic digestion describes the process that occurs whenever organic material exists in a micro-organism rich anaerobic environment. These processes have been harnessed by man to great benefit in a range of different ways which, incidentally, include cold lagoon digestion which I don't think gets a mention. The article reads very much as a description of the thermophilic industrial process and is very weak on the underlying microbiology and the range of occurrences in natural and semi-natural eco-systems. There is also one section on aerobic digestion which seems out of place here.If I can and will try and apply some more balancing edits and I hope you will let me know if you think I'm barking up the wrong tree. Velela 18:23, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Lagoons mentioned as an alternative type of digester. Also have expanded and compiled bacterial section under the process. I don't necessarily agree with the indicated bias towards thermophilic systems, I think there is a good description of both. All the pictures are of mesophilic systems as I don't have any of thermos. --Alex Marshall 16:45, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Comment left on my talk page: Anaerobic digestion

message: An anaerobic digester is an invention, a device.  Anareobic digestion is a process, which can be done with an anaerobic digester but also takes place in nature.  Yet it redirects here!?  That's not right.  They are related, sure, and I submit anaerobic digester should probably be a fairly short article, but still.  --206.79.158.100 (talk) 22:19, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I see your points, it would be possible to divide this into two articles but I am unsure what the benefits would be. The individual processes of anaerobic decomposition are methanogenesis, acidogenesis, acetogenesis and hydrolysis and do occur naturally. Each are covered by their own sub article. Anaerobic digestion, to me, is the series of processes which are harnessed in an anaerobic digester. --Alex Marshall (talk) 12:20, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anareobic digestion vs Anaerobic digester 

message: Do methane digesters produce any significant amount of hydrogen sulfide, enough for the result to be considered a sour gas? DMahalko (talk) 11:44, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Production of Sour gas? 

message: I am trying to determine if any forced-air or boiler furnaces exist, that are capable of burning biogas from digesters as either a primary or secondary fuel. I'm not looking for some huge industrial furnace but rather something scaled down for home or business heating. 
A secondary-fuel furnace would be the most useful, fed primarily with a standard fossil fuel like liquid propane or natural gas, and then with additional burners for the biogas. This allows the biogas to offset fossil fuel usage, but allows fallback to the fossil fuel in case the biogas production is insufficient for continuous reliable use.
So far, my searches for a furnace technology like this are coming up empty. DMahalko (talk) 11:56, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Home furnace capable of burning biogas? 

message: In its current form the addition reads like an advert for AADS. There seems to be some useful information in it but it is very lengthy and does not read easily. English is US not UK as the article has been written in. Also random capitals such as 'Biogas'. Please discuss.--Alex Marshall (talk) 15:40, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed that it reads like an advertisement.  It has been put back in to the main page, and I am again removing it.Withlyn (talk) 04:24, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Moved from main page 

message: I changed several uses of the word "bacteria" to "microbe" or "microorganism" because methanogens are archaea, and archaea are not bacteria.  I still think the section on metabolism is misleading.  It is true that all organisms, including anaerobes, incorporate oxygen in their biomass, and thus need it to grow.  However, oxygen (the element) is so common in all biological substrates that its presence can be taken for granted.  What is really necessary is oxidizing power, which, true to the name, is often provided by an oxygen-containing compound such as elemental oxygen, sulfate, nitrate, or carbon dioxide, but can also come from oxidized metals or sulfur.  However, the distinction may be too technical for the average reader of this article.  I'd like to see it rewritten to be technically correct but still accessible, but I don't have the time to do it right now, since I have school papers to write.Withlyn (talk) 05:31, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed methanogens are Archaea not bacteria. Happy to support any reworking of chemistry section, but as you say it needs to remain easily readable. --Alex Marshall (talk) 15:01, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Discussion of anaerobic organisms & metabolism

message: I'm unaware of any bacteria or other microorganism that can produce hydrogen; methane and various sulphides, sure, carbon dioxide and even nitrogen, yep, but hydrogen? Can anybody help here? MrCleanOut (talk) 08:35, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Halanaerobium hydrogeninformans  maybe ? Mion (talk) 22:02, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hydrogen content in biogas 

message: The sentence in the lede The technical expertise required to maintain industrial-scale anaerobic digesters, coupled with high capital costs and low process efficiencies, has so far been a limiting factor in its deployment as a waste treatment technology seems either based on outdated information or is just plain wrong. The wastewater treatment facility where I worked for several years employed anaerobic digesters and it was not particularly difficult or expensive to operate them. In fact it was cheaper than aerobic digesters because those require high-capacity blowers powered by large electric motors to run at all times. The system was a very old one that had been in operation since the 1950s. In fact, they simply gathered and burned off the methane on a stack, which always seemed very wasteful to me. The Garbage Skow (talk) 01:18, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cost and complexity dispute 

message: Mention some processes of dry digesters, ie 
For example, there is the Wiessmann-Bioferm "Kompoferm" processhttp://www.zerowasteenergy.com/content/dry-anaerobic-digestionSee brochure Bioferm_Trockenfermentation.pdf at www.graskracht.be. There is also the Dranco process as designed by OWSSee graskracht_25-11-2011_Isabella Wierinck_OWS.pdf at www.graskracht.be, aswell as a system by Jan Klein Hesselink.See 25092012 Droogvergisten Jan klein Hesselink Ekwadraat.pdf at www.graskracht.be
Wastewater: mention the thermal hydrolysis process. It seems to be the only economically viable method now in use in wastewater plants.
91.182.142.202 (talk) 09:24, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Dry digester: processes

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I plan to use the below articles to write about when and where anaerobic digestion was first studied, how the technology and processes have changed, and the problems it was developed to fix.
Heukelekian, H. "Decomposition of Cellulose." Ind. Eng. Chem., 1927, 19 (8), pp 928–930. <https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ie50212a026>.
Buhr, H.O.; Andrews, J.F. "The thermophilic anaerobic digestion process." Pergamon Press 1977. Water Research, vol 11, pp 129-143. <https://ac-els-cdn-com.proxy.library.cmu.edu/004313547790118X/1-s2.0-004313547790118X-main.pdf?_tid=e719e543-c3d3-437d-b1df-beff88ede2ad&acdnat=1522886608_ee245eebc2361c6b8101dfca75dc82bd>.
Scharer J.M., Moo-young M. (1979) Methane generation by anaerobic digestion of cellulose-containing wastes. In: Advances in Biochemical Engineering, Volume 11. Advances in Biochemical Engineering, vol 11. Springer, Berlin, Heidelberg. <https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/3-540-08990-X_23#citeas>.
Stander, G.J. "Effluents from Fermentation Industries Part IV (1). A New Method for increasing and maintaining Efficiency in the Anaerobic Digestion of Fermentation Effluents." Public Health, 1950, vol 14, no 9, pp 263-273. <https://www.cabdirect.org/cabdirect/abstract/19532704025>.
Any input on these sources?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amancalada (talk • contribs) 02:43, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: This will be a very challenging task User:Amancalada. You might be better of reviewing current textbooks on this topic as they have likely already done the hard slog to review all the old literature. EMsmile (talk) 03:21, 20 April 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Expanding History Section