Talk:Dobrotitsa

message: What is "Τομπροτιτζας" supposed to be? Are you sure whoever added it got the spelling right? Thulium 19:47, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't think so. Where is the tonos, could you find out. "Τομπροτιτζας" gets zero hits in Google so there must be some spelling error. Thulium 20:52, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Err... it's not a contemporary name, it's a 14th-century Byzantine rendition, bear that in mind. Would you please clarify what you think the problem actually is? Todor→Bozhinov 20:55, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That's the problem. Even if it is a 14th-century Byzantine rendition it would still be used (as all other names from the period and earlier). It is my suspicion that the text Anonimu got it from showed only a Latin transcription of the name and s/he tried to change it back to Greek, but did so incorrectly. If this is what did happen, could you please give the transcription Anonimu please. Thulium 21:03, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  No, it was written in greek. What it's the problem with this rendition anyway?Anonimu 21:08, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Two things. You don't normally see 'b' written as 'mp' in texts from that period (Boris is written 'Βόρης' and Lord Byron's name was rendered centuries later as 'Βύρων'; b was always written 'β'; 'mp' for 'b' is a modern innovation) and there is no accent. If it is written in Greek and you have the text, could you find out which letter it's on? Thulium 21:14, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  You're wrong, according to the article about Koine Greek phonology, b was already pronounced "v" by the first millenium ("Yet, it is not before the 10th century AD that transcriptions of β as fricative v or γ as voiced velar l are found in Armenian, which suggests that the transition was not general before the end of the 1st millennium; however, previous transcriptions may have been learned transcriptions.", while in the article about Byzantine Greek, most betas are transliterated as v, the "b" value for mp being attested too ("μπλάβος (blavos, blue)"). In the same book Balik is mentioned as "Μπαλίκας, τις, τοῦ Καρβωνᾶ ἄρχων" (note the v written as beta in "Carvuna")Anonimu 21:40, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Please, I think I know about the history of my mother tongue. β was pronounced 'v' when the Cyrillic alphabet came into existence, how do you explain its replica in that alphabet? My point is that 'b' was still changed into 'β' into Greek texts and pronounced v thereafter, there are countless examples of that. I see you know the accents for . Can you find it for Τομπροτιτζας? Thulium 21:49, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  This is a case when b was written mp. Do you have any proof that "b" was never tranliterated as "mp" in the 14th century Byzantine greek? I don't remember any tones on Dobrotitsas...Anonimu 22:27, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't have any proof I can think of, however I've never seen an example of that happening. If you're certain about the letters then so be it. The tones would be either Τομπρότιτζας, Τομπροτιτζάς or Τομπροτίτζας. Thulium 22:34, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  The only posibility is that it was on the iota and i didn't notice it.... Anonimu 10:52, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, it's on the iota. I've also found some exact sources for it: Kantakuzenos II. 584-585, III. 6224 and Miklosich-Müller, Acta et dipl. I, No 166.Anonimu 20:02, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Furthermore, I find it hard to believe that Δοβρουτσά (Dobruja) derives from "Τομπροτιτζας". How exactly (see the β for the b)? I'm just asking you to double-check.Thulium 21:17, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  The modern greek name is a late loan from Turkish, just like the name in all other languagesAnonimu 21:40, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

text:  It is sourced, so according to wiki policy it has the right to be in the article. Anonimu 21:00, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it's OR. See my previous comment. Thulium 21:03, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Find a non-translated John Kantakuzenus' History and prove me wrong. Anonimu 21:09, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Could you tell me in what part it is? Thulium 21:14, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  I'm not sure, I think in III-IV.. the part that talks about the civil war....Anonimu 21:40, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Τομπροτιτζας"? 

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thread_title:  External links modified