Talk:Palm Island, Queensland/Archive 2

message: Some suggestions to get this collaboration started:
#restructure article (although the article's primary problem is lack of content)
#recruit member(s) from Wikiproject Australian law to help expand "Manburra People v GBRMPA", "Zen Pearls Pty Ltd" and "Aboriginals Protection and Restrictions of the Sale of Opium Act 1897". (request has been made at wikiproject, "law=yes" has been added to  above)Garrie 02:18, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Australia/Collaboration|Australian Collaboration of the Fortnight]] to do list

message: Is it appropriate to add the Template:Infobox Australian Place info box to this article?  Is Palm Island one town or are there a number of discrete geographical communities on the island?--Mattinbgn 01:22, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There is both Palm Island Shire Council (see this map and Palm Island. This article is about Palm Island only. Seems to me the settlement is a relatively small part of the island, but the entire island isn't very big anyway.Garrie 03:35, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have added the town info box to the article which needs fleshing out.  If the town and island are synonymous, then the box seems appropriate.--Mattinbgn 03:46, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Info Box

message: Not sure if this belongs under Health, where it is now, or a Law and order section. I feel it is notable, most communities in Australia don't have any form of restriction on Alcohol (the fact that it is common in indiginous communities is quite notable and worth highlighting).Garrie 03:33, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Alcohol 

message: Currently the History section is almost cut-and-paste from the Auslii website reference. So it's "correct as cited" but a copyvio.Garrie 23:16, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  History 

message: Does anyone know how to drive the links in this section? If you go to the links as they are, you are zoomed in too far to see anything meaningful. eg - the msn page all that was visible was the text Aboriginal land, which made it seem that there was no coverage - but if you zoom out then you can see that there is coverage, just not to that scale at the coordinates the link is for (if the coordinates are a bit to the NW then it'd be better).Garrie 01:45, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've changed coords to dm and adjusted them nearer to town and to 1/20000 scale (street directory).  You can change the scale if you prefer.  You can adjust coords manually (1 extra minute means roughly 1.5 km east or south and you can use decimal minutes.--Grahamec 11:39, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Aerial photos & maps 

message: I think i'm putting the facts as reported in the cited newspaper articles accurately, but if anyone has any questions I'd be happy to post full quotes from articles into the talk section here.  And if you would like to propose a significant format change please post it here first so that i can check it still reflects the facts stated in the article. WikiTownsvillian 13:12, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I've fixed the citations into a standard format. Note for future ref - linking to subscriber-only services is actively discouraged, especially at FA-level. I have access to Factiva and a few other newstext type services so am happy to assist also Orderinchaos78 15:18, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Info from newspapers

message: Image:Great Palm Island highlighted.PNG|Context map - (Great) Palm Island highlighted
Image:Palm Island Queensland locator map.png|Context map - Palm Islands in a square
Image:Palm Islands Queensland map blank.png|blank Palm Islands
Image:Palm Islands Queensland map en.png|Labelled Palm Islands
Image:Palm Islands context map blank.png|blank Palm Islands plus
Image:Palm Islands context map en.png|Labelled Palm Islands plus
Hello, I made some maps using NASA WorldWind. Feel free to edit them and upload improvements over the top (at Commons - your account there has to be > 4 days old), or else drop a note on my talk page. They can probably be used for the other islands in the Palm Island group too. cheers, pfctdayelise (talk) 12:53, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi pfctdayelise, are you intending to leave it as one image for the main article? if so maybe we should take away the Aerial photos & maps header and put the map near the top somewhere, thoughts? WikiTownsvillian 12:55, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi all, can someone fix the edit that I just made so that the next header (references) starts after the images. Thanks and sorry I haven't been able to figure out how to do it myself. WikiTownsvillian 06:25, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you Grahamec! WikiTownsvillian 09:40, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

text: I'd say no, it just struck me as a little odd.  Most maps are illegible throughout WP so it's almost natively understood that thumbs have larger pictures behind.  That said I'm not getting into a 3RR violation if you put it back!--Steve  (Slf67)  talk  08:44, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Some maps 

message: I would consider the most recent edit by JaKittoe to be extremely POV, particularly as it is not referenced, but am happy to consider others' opinion on this matter. WikiTownsvillian 23:20, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed - the basic principle is that we should tell the facts and let the reader decide. Wikipedia is not a crystal ball was a major problem with the manslaughter section. It wasn't even legally sound and was poorly sourced, so I removed it. Orderinchaos78 15:23, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Street Report and trial of Hurley

message: I'm not clear how the photo of grass trees shows a problem to be resolved.--Grahamec 14:18, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think it's there to show that the local environment over a longer time has had this style of vegetation. It fits well in the Natural environment section whcih is better named than Environmental clean-up.Garrie 04:45, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Environmental cleanup

message: Does this section deserve an article in its own right?  While the death in custody and subsequent controversy certainly requires a paragraph summary in this article, the heavy emphasis on this section risks unbalancing the rest of the article.  IMO, this article should focus more on Palm Island the place.  Thoughts?--Mattinbgn 02:54, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, I hope these new articles (like Palm Island Aboriginal Shire Council and Bwgcolman) are included in the ACOTF stats though :) WikiTownsvillian 03:01, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Do we have a consensus on this and if so, what do you think would be a suitable title for the new article. 2004 Palm Island disturbances is one that comes to mind for me.--Mattinbgn 23:46, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That or 2004 Palm Island death in custody which is the common theme to both the riot and the subsequent controversies with the reviews and court action.  WikiTownsvillian 00:44, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That sounds fine, and we should redirect the other name and any others to that article.  When do you think it would be appropriate to move it.--Mattinbgn/ talk 01:00, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

text: I think WikiTownsvillian's suggestion of name is good - it's a very specific incident with its own dynamics. I also agree the ACOTF focus should extend to the new article as well as this one. Orderinchaos78 01:06, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Created the new article with a cut and paste from here.  Needs better categorisation for a start and the Palm Island article needs a summary written and a referral to the main article.--Mattinbgn/ talk 04:39, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have attempted to summarise this section, but think it could be cut further.  I think the key points are 1. There was a death in custody; 2. There was a riot; 3. A report was commissioned (the key point for this article as it likely to have a significant effect on Palm if implemented) and 4. the legal matters relating to the death are continuing.  All the detail should in the specific 2004 Palm Island death in custody article.--Mattinbgn/ talk 20:34, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: 2004 riot and death-in-custody controversy

message: I have removed the following text from Self governance:
The Palm Island Community Council became the Palm Island Aboriginal Shire Council in...  under... Act (Qld).  Like the other Aboriginal Shire Councils that were created, this Act gave the Council full status as a Local Government on a par with other Councils in Queensland.
If someone can provide the year, legislation and a source, then it should be returned.
This type of text belongs in a talk page not on an article, which should read as though it was finished.
Garrie 04:52, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Mind you - much of this information appears later in the Governance section.Garrie 04:55, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ...ok I just feel silly now. My bad! WikiTownsvillian 05:01, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Boilerplate" text 

message: Are the brumbies seen as...
*a resource
*a pest
*a tourist attraction
*a commodity
*a feral nuscience
*an environmental risk
The very passing reference to them in the Natural environment section leaves things very murky. With this information we know there are horses there but not that they are introduced. We don't however know anything about what wildlife naturally occurs on Palm Island - are there any kangaroos? emus? cassowaries? snakes?
Considering the weasel-words in Overview - The Island is often termed a classic "tropical paradise" given its natural endowments... the article doesn't really explain why one would think it is a tropical paradise. The closest thing to climatic coverage the article provides is a mention that tropical cyclones are a problem!Garrie 05:02, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree, the only problem is finding sources for Palm related facts (that are not controversial).  Is there any way to find out if anyone like Australian Geographic have done any reports about Palm Island? WikiTownsvillian 05:35, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Off the top of my head, I believe there was a minor incident involving the RSPCA and alleged mistreatment of the horses.  I will have a look for a source.--Mattinbgn/ talk 05:55, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

text: Google search sheds some light on the horses.--Mattinbgn/ talk 05:57, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Environment 

message: I can't find any evidence for the existence of Manburra (sic) People v GBRMPA, as distinct from The Manbarra People and Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority and Anor, so I have deleted it.--Grahamec 02:51, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Since there only seems to be one significant legal case would it be better for the main title to be "The Manbarra People and..."? It just doesn't look good to have a section entirely consisting of a single sub-section. WikiTownsvillian 04:06, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Done, but I've simplified name of case, partly because I don't know what "Anor" means.--Grahamec 04:17, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Legal cases

message: The following articles have been created in conjunction with this article, please help expand them :)
*Bwgcolman people
*Palm Island Aboriginal Shire Council
*2004 Palm Island death in custody
*Manbarra people WikiTownsvillian 10:13, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Sub articles

message: While this is significant to Indigenous history generally I don't think it has much relevance to Palm Island specifically, it seems that Palm Island was a bit of a special case which went against the norms of indigenous treatment (ie even worse than the rest of Queensland) and that is covered in other sections of the history section.  The wording of the section also concerns me as it reads more as a social commentary than NPOV. 
Maybe to provide context for the Palm Island History section a paragraph or two could be added about 20th Century history of indigenous people in Queensland generally... WikiTownsvillian 02:05, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi Phenss, I agree fully, however it is not really information specific to Palm Island, the content has been moved to Aboriginal Protection and restriction of the sale of opium act 1897 and I hope it is expanded upon, particularly by experts.  Thanks, WikiTownsvillian 11:40, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Delete Aboriginal Protection and Restrictions of the Sale of Opium Act 1897?

message: not sure if this is the forum so excuse me if not but can someone look for more information from the Palm Island link on the following:
* the Aboriginal Protection and restriction of the sale of opium act 1897. 
* the flying boats image was removed?? intergral part of Palm Island history http://home.st.net.au/~dunn/airfields/palmislandnavalairstation.htm
* The Palm Island Community Justice Group 
* Solomon Dam-   major Palm Island day photos would be nice
* Cylindrospermopsis raciborskii,  can't find a lint to this anywhere --Phenss 11:28, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I cannot find in the history of this article an image of the WWII flying boats, it would be a good addition if we can find it.  WikiTownsvillian 05:57, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: message moved from [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Townsville]]