Talk:Final Fantasy VII/Archive 4

message: I see a barnstar! Good going, everyone. The cardinal RPG is now at featured status. Though I'm not a fan of the stubby gameplay paragraphs, but eh. --Zeality 17:09, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Congratulations

message: Somebody added this box back to the article (it was removed a couple of weeks ago), but I'm going to remove it again due to the fact that it really contributes nothing to this article, and it's quite open to debate which title precedes Final Fantasy VII and which follows it. There's a vast overlap in terms of time period among the prequels (Last Order, Before Crisis and, presumably, Crisis Core), as all three do/will either go right up to before the beginning of Final Fantasy VII, or carry over into after its events have already begun. The same is true with the sequels/interquels/whatever the hell they are at this point (Maiden who Travels the Planet, Advent Children and On the Way to a Smile). It's simply too open to argument and not worth trying to analyze with all the overlap that goes on. Especially when you have some individuals who only think of the "big" titles (Crisis Core, Before Crisis, Final Fantasy VII, Advent Children and Dirge of Cerberus) arguing with somebody who thinks we should account for the side stories as well (Last Order, Maiden and On the Way). Ryu Kaze 00:37, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. I was wondering where they went at some point but then I thought about why they were even needed if all the links to the different titles are in the infobox below and placing a timeline would just get confusing. Axem Titanium 00:49, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Previous title/next title in series box

message: There is a lot of overlinking in this article, especially links to regular English words that are not especially relevent to the subject. According to the style guides, you should only link words for definition if they are "technical terms". I don't think "sequel", "dungeon", "grassland", "magical", "ranch", "tribe", "plateau", "submarine", "electricity", "skyscraper", "spititual", "espionage", "lion", "speech", "ninjas", "pilot", ""rocket", "cat", "immortal", "blonde", "miniskirt", "pants", "mimic", etc., etc. are technical terms. Kaldari 00:52, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right. Axem's seen to it, and done a great job of it. Ryu Kaze 03:27, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Overuse of links

message: The world of FFVII was always mentioned as "The Planet" in the game, and in the Advent Children. I do not recall it ever being named "Gaia". --Truten 20:40, 6 September 2006
:The helpful reference right next to that information in the article leads here where it confirms that fact. Axem Titanium 19:58, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's also mentioned on the official Dirge of Cerberus site in the Final Fantasy VII Tribute section. Play the hangman game. At one point, it asks for the name of the planet, with the correct answer being "Gaia". The name was also used in the original game, actually, though not so obviously as it should have been. It was only used as part of the name of the ice area before the Northern Cave. Ryu Kaze 14:01, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: On the Square Enix website it states that the planet's name is Gaia, well then guess what, IT'S GAIA!!! Ceres009 14:35, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Gaia?

message: There's very little information on the PC version of this game and it's weakness in sales compared to the playstation version, plus it's criticisms from the port.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.157.186.95 (talk • contribs) 
:Do you have any sources regarding its poor sales/quality? Axem Titanium 16:32, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, other than the fact that I can personally vouch for the fact that the movies were lower resolution in the PC version than the PSX version, I don't know what else there is to say about it.  Well, maybe that the quality of your MIDI driver affects the quality of the music within the game(though the PC version comes with its own Yamaha MIDI driver), but that's about it.  Those are the only real difference between the two games.  The resolution for the FMVs is lower, and the music quality is different, since the quality and tone of the music is dependant on your MIDI driver...--Vercalos 08:33, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: PC Version

message: I think this article should mention the Final Fantasy VII technical demo, since searching for "Final Fantasy technical demo" redirects to this page. - The preceding comment was made by Grevenko Sereth 18:35, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's mentioned in the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII section well enough. ~ Hibana 15:13, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  FF7 technical demo 

message: Okay this is really pissing me off lately. Every time when I add a link to Final Fantasy Forums.net, it's been removed by some other random person. For god's sake, would you STOP it already? I mean come on, it's a huge community forums to discuss all the FF series including FFVII so I don't seem to understand why it shoudn't be on the list! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Darkishblade (talk • contribs) 
:Keyword: forum. Forums are inherently unreliable sources and therefore don't deserve links. Also, I really don't care how big it is, there are plenty of other forums with similar numbers of people. Finally, Wikipedia is not an advertisement for your site. Axem Titanium 00:57, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Because, the other links actually have reference material. They actually contributed sources to this article. MythSearcher 05:35, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

text: I think you misunderstand what is meant by "contributed sources to this article". By editing wikipedia, you don't gain the right to advertise. Your link can only be present if it is used as a reliable source for some of the information in the article. But, since it's a forum, it's completely barred. Axem Titanium 00:19, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Link to Final Fantasy Forums 

message: Could anyone please tell me the difference between these various Japanese versions of Final Fantasy? For instance, does "FFVII International Ultimate Hits" contain the additional fourth CD of goodies that "FFVII PSOne Books" does, and was this included in the original "FFVII International" release? I need to know whether buying the "PSOne Books" version is worth it or not, because it's generally more expensive than the "FFVII International Ultimate Hits" version. Mogura 13:29, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Differences between "FFVII International", "FFVII International PSOne Books" and "FFVII International Ultimate Hits"? 

message: I found a narrative technique mentioned on wikipedia. It boils down to this definition: a kind of reversal, where things the people thought were thought to be true, but in reality were false. I've been looking all over for the name of that technique for weeks. I can't find it. It may be in FF7, or in Final Fantasy. I don't know.
I'm at sefiros@gmail.com. Thank you in advance.
:The term you're probably looking for is peripeteia, an element of Greek tragedies, although this isn't the best place to be asking since talk pages are not supposed to be chat rooms. Axem Titanium 15:37, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Final Fantasy narrative technique 

message: There wasn't a whole lot of discussion about why the compilation suddenly needed to be crammed into the FFVII. Personally I felt that the compilation itself, and this page, looked much better when they were seperate entities. FFVII technically isn't even part of the compilation, and there's no consistency in this series if the compilation is jammed into the FFVII article yet Fabula Nova Crystallis, which is notably not as large in content at the moment has its own page.--Claude 06:43, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There was a big discussion somewhere and in the end people though that the Compilation page would just end up being a link database to other articles with a short introduction but hardly could be considered an article in its own right. The Fabula page is probably going to get much bigger since it is still largely in development, but I don't know. Maybe it will be merged into the main FFXIII page as well. Axem Titanium 15:37, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The compilation has been stated to run its course for at least another 10 years. The current content is most likely going to double or triple in the meantime, further stretching out the article. At least on its own page, it wouldn't be this crammed.--Claude 06:24, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Compilation = Seperate entity? 

message: Is there such a thing as too many references?  This article has about 7,000 words of text and about 4,000 words in references.  Some items in the article have two or three external references each.  This seems like an almost useless amount of reference material.  Is that possible?  Is it too much?  Phlake 18:38, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Heck no. Basically, it's a good counterpoint to all over-paranoid verification-demanding silliness - we can't make exceptions, right? Secondly, People say Wikipedia is all about pop culture rubbish; we can at least say that pop culture rubbish is what makes this world great, and point to this article and say not only do we have good pop culture rubbish, but it's well-sourced too. =) --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 15:13, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  All Deletionists agree: 100+ sources is always a good thing. Besides, a LOT of the references are actually fascinating to follow. --ElaragirlTalk|Count 04:27, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Rather too many than too few IMO. It's the best way to satisfying the No Original Research guideline. Sockatume 15:44, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too Many Footnotes? 

message: When looking at the page recently, I realized that the page is almost 100 kb in size. (Well, 96, anyway.) I noticed that some sections, like Story, are essentially put entirely on this page, and take up a lot of room. Other sections, including Setting and Characters, have their own separate pages but still have extremely long sections on this page. For example, the Story section takes three full PageDowns at 1024x768 screen resolution, with size 12 font and the window maximized, and Setting takes one and a half PageDowns at those same settings even though it has its own page. I was just wondering if anyone else was concerned about the page size, considering Wiki's general suggestion to limit pages to 50 kb. I know that it's just a suggestion, and sometimes a longer page is better, but I do think some of the information on this page could be moved to other pages, especially Story to its own new page, without crippling the quality. Nique1287 20:46, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that we need a short summary of the story here, and brief outlines of the key characters, but I don't think we need to move the existing content to subarticles. I think we just need to nuke it. Having a full-length detailing of the story is frankly dicing with copyright infringement. There's little there that can't be gleaned from actually playing the game, so it's of dubious value. It's not collecting anything secondary sources together, it's just paraphrasing the game itself. Sockatume 21:01, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There was a huge discussion about this at the featured article discussion. Basically, we are going for comprehensiveness in describing the story in the shortest way possible. The page itself hasn't increased in length since being promoted to FA and I'm pretty happy with the literally bare minimum story description. Axem Titanium 22:00, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page getting really long 

message: I quote: "During this pursuit, the group gains several new members: Yuffie Kisaragi, Cait Sith, Vincent Valentine and Cid Highwind." - as far as I can remember, Yuffie and Vincent were not actually crucial characters in the game, and were gained by the player completing  so-called 'optional quests' to acquire them. Regardless of whether they were acquired, the game could still be completed. Maybe someone could consider changing that line? --Janipewter 07:21, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: From what can be inferred by their inclusion in other Compilation titles, I believe the "canonical" version of the game's story would include their admission into the party. Axem Titanium 20:02, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Both of them are in AC, so the official storyline has them joining at some point. Koweja 20:08, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Fair enough. Janipewter 10:52, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Gaining group members 

message: Since User:Jagged 85 doesn't seem to want to, I've created a place for discussion of splitting the Compilation section. The page was originally merged here per discussion at WP:FF (here). Personally, I echo their feeling that there really isn't that much to talk about in the Compilation besides what's already there. By itself, it looks short and out of place and doesn't have much room for expansion (believe me, I just tried and failed miserably while looking for new stuff to say). Anyway, long story short, I think the section should stay here because it doesn't look good as its own article and would end up becoming a collection of links to other articles (something that's already achieved by the FFVII template and category). Axem Titanium 02:03, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The problem is that this article is already too huge. 96K is already three times the recommended size of 32K. I've read some of the discussions on the merger but haven't yet noticed anyone mentioning this important point (or maybe I didn't search hard enough). There is no need to merge the Compilation here when having a sub-article would serve the same purpose and reduce the length of this article by at least 14K at the same time. Jagged 85 12:09, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a Featured Article. Yes, it's a long page, but it is informative and it saves the trouble of having a bunch of stub-articles. Compilation would be not much more than a stub on its own, so it's better off on this page. Nique1287 15:27, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

text: According to Wikipedia:Article series, the sub-articles should be of good length themselves. The Compilation section is so short as to be stubby and awkward on its own (and with little room for expansion). While it's true that it's good to be bold in editting articles, the guideline has a caveat to not be reckless, especially when it could be controversial and/or you're editting a featured article. Also, don't simply revert back to your version as soon as you post your rebuttal. Wait a while to see if your given reasons reflect consensus before unilaterally taking action. As it stands, I've seen User:PresN, User:Nique1287 and myself revert your changes, implying that you are not on the side of consensus, but don't be discouraged. Perhaps more information in the future would make the Compilation suitable to being its own article but that future is not today. Axem Titanium 19:54, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Compilation section