Talk:Bruno Gröning

message: Added original research template because of "As far as I know, no proper organisation has actually asked for these documents". Added weasel template because of wordings like "some people" and "the others", unverifiable information such as "where many mass and distant healings occurred" and an overall bias that makes this whole thing look like pure propaganda.
--84.60.151.1 (talk) 10:29, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Original research 

message: Updated with a more academic approach and fixed spelling mistakes. Corrected grammatical problemos due to cryptic translation Feb 16, 2015.
Removed direct claims also. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.198.45.100 (talk) 16:22, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Updated 

message: This looks entirely like propaganda. The whole section is basically written like a pamphlet. To be honest, I'm disappointed to see that such obvious propaganda is still online, and not being at the very least redesigned. Sorry if I'm being too harsh, but that's just my impression. 84.108.64.253 (talk) 14:09, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I concur, the whole article reads like a pro-Gröning pamphlet and needs a NPOV rewrite. OttoMäkelä (talk) 14:20, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

text: And also, what's with all the clear advertising that has been getting added at the end of the article? OttoMäkelä (talk) 14:25, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

text: OK, that was a rather drastic way to clean up the article, but of course if it was all copypasta from an adherent site… OttoMäkelä (talk) 08:09, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Propaganda 

message: I dont know if there are moderators who check these articles out, but there is a serious problem here.  Why can people who know absolutely nothing about this subject make major edits and remove content, just because they have a biased opinion?
The final article stub you left was rather odd - there were no links to the "Bruno Groening Circle of Friends" website - which is now linked - this should remain a permanent link from this page, since it is the main source of information on the www, represents some 60,000 people in maybe 3000 local groups and exists in about 60 countries.
The second organisation mentioned "Friends of Bruno LLC" does not come up for me in the first few Google search pages, and should probably be removed.  I left it in temporarily because it might actually exist.... (?)  If someone posts a link to it, then that will be a useful verification.
A Second item I did not change (yet) was the title "faith healer" - it doesn't convey properly what Bruno Groening did or how he described what he did.  
Dictostelium (talk) 22:18, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Corrections 

message: Under "Death" -- "physicians treating him confirmed that his insides were burned up, like nothing they'd ever seen. Forced to issue a certificate indicating cause of death, they opted to write stomach cancer." - is there a citation available?  Certificate of Death?  Statements by attending physicians?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by MichaelStraus (talk • contribs) 03:09, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations 

message: I will slowly be adding sources to this article. Thetruemovie (talk) 21:40, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Sources

message: Removed the claims of healings while in prison, we need solid sources for such a statement. Thetruemovie (talk) 23:14, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed healing claims

message: I believe this statement violates wikipedia's WP:NPOV, one of the foundations of Wiki. Thetruemovie (talk) 23:14, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: "Greatest" Organization

message: I believe this statement is inaccurate. My understanding is that some of these organizations were never part of the Circle of Friends, and just started on their own.
According to this link, [] the Circle of Friends was not founded until 1979. It appears many of the groups listed here actually existed before the Circle of Friends.
I do not want an edit war, WP:CON, I believe, makes it clear that working towards an article we can both be happy with is essential for wikipidea. 
I welcome your input. Thetruemovie (talk) 23:14, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Groups split

message: I have begun the process of combining some of my old ideas with the cuts you have made. You removed about 75% of what was there. I re-inserted about 20%.
I'm curious to hear your thoughts or feelings about this. Thetruemovie (talk) 00:34, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Request for dialogue for user 121.73

message: I removed refference to the movie, wiki has some very (somewhat strict) guidelines for what can be used to make medical claims.... you can look at them here  blessings, Thetruemovie (talk) 04:26, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: The Documentary film as evidence of healing

message: * Bruno-Gröning-Freundeskreis, iw. to the German wikipedia (it's the only lang, today) -- Bruno Groening Circle of Friends.
** Grete Häusler, Grete Hausler (1922–2007).
--PLA y Grande Covián (talk) 09:48, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Grete Hausler]] & a Circle of Friends ... foundation 

message: It appears Gröning is notable, though we need to demonstrate his notability better. After most of the sources were removed as being unreliable, we need to find more and better sources and rewrite the article from them. I did some quick searching, and it looks like any high-quality academic references to him are going to be difficult to find. We're likely going to have to rely upon lesser sources. We'll also need to add some material per WP:FRINGE to put his beliefs in context of science and encyclopedic knowledge. --Ronz (talk) 16:42, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Article needs a rewrite

message: *http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/667597?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents Black, Monica. 2012. “Miracles in the Shadow of the Economic Miracle: The “supernatural '50s” in West Germany”. The Journal of Modern History 84 (4). University of Chicago Press: 833–60. doi:10.1086/667597.
*:I don't have access, but it at least mentions Groening in an historical context. --Ronz (talk) 21:50, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Potential references

message: I undid the removal of unexplained multiple references.
I was a bit confused by the phrase "obvious unreliable sources."
Obvious how?
Most of the links are to direct quotes of Groening.
?
The Circle of Life website was created by Thomas Busse, the author of multiple books on Groening.
Most of the links to "Help and Healing Sessions" are translations of original talks given by Groening.
The "reliability" of a source is also relative to the fact it is sourcing. Why isn't for example the Circle of friends, a large organization that spreads his teachings reliable enough source to back up that Groening's said his teachings were not something new, but wisdom that humanity had lost.
I agree the spiritcrane source is pretty weak, I will take that out.
Maybe a little dialogue would serve here, vs a 5,000 character undiscussed stripping of the article?
Thetruemovie (talk) 02:28, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: It was explained, just not in detail. The sources are not reliable. See WP:V and WP:RS. --Ronz (talk) 17:13, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Unexplained removal of almost every references

message: Since someone thought this article had neutrality problems, here is a place to discuss.Thetruemovie (talk) 02:45, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: The article has been written from unreliable, unencycopedic, biased sources. As such, we shouldn't expect anything to meet WP:POV. --Ronz (talk) 17:15, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text:  Noting that  has, in a little over three years, edited only this article, is probably the author of most of the current content, and many prior edits are by other WP:SPAs, I think we know the source of the problem. Guy (Help!) 17:22, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Neutrality concern

message: The article made extensive use of a small number of sources that do not meet our sourcing guidelines. Specifically, www.help-and-healing-sessions.com, www.bruno-groening.net, www.bruno-groening.org. These sources lack evidence of independence, editorial review and neutrality. Importantly, virtually the entire article (itself essentially a monograph by a user with no other contributions to Wikipedia) was drawn from these three fansites. There is an obvious and strong suspicion that this user is connected tot he websites in some way. There is actiuve discussion as to whether Groening counts as a notable crank or not, if he is then we need reliable independent sources to show this, otherwise the article may be deleted. Reinserting the unreliable sources does not help and if it continues it may lead to the sites being blacklisted. Guy (Help!) 09:47, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I found an accessible version of the source mentioned above that we can use as the basis of a rewrite: http://trace.tennessee.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1007&context=utk_histpubs --Ronz (talk) 18:25, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

text: A lot of the available RS about this topic will (somewhat unsurprisingly) be in German. I just expanded the article a bit based on this Süddeutsche Zeitung article. The dewiki article cites a few other sources that may be useful. Regards, HaeB (talk) 11:12, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sourcing 

message: The first thing I noticed when researching Mr. Groning is the large goiter on his neck in many photos. The man himself said this was somehow related to his healing powers. However there is no mention of that here and am wondering if it is something that could be included on this page. There seems to be a number of papers and articles online with mention of it and his assertion that it was related to his healing abilities. I do not feel confident editing here, but a search of the man's name and 'goiter' online will provide sources.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.134.144.164 (talk) 23:22, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Goiter 

message: I have done some cleanup on this article in the past, however, most media coverage of Gröning is written in German, with reliable English-language sources few and far between - most English sources on him are run by his followers, which are obviously not WP:RS, or the writings of historian Monica Black, who is reliable, but primarily referencing just a single author isn't ideal. 
If any German speakers would like to contribute to this article, a number of contemporary newspaper articles on Gröning are available here, and I've found this journal article that may be another useful lead. Any assistance would be much appreciated :) Ethmostigmus (talk) 04:22, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Well he was an esoteric quack in the 1950s. But anyhow, the German page has some quite recent sources, like Spiegel in 2023. I keep having an eye on this page. U. from MunichNillurcheier (talk) 14:22, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article requires attention from German-speaking users 

message: I have begun to work on the final paragraph. First change was minor- removed the name of the brand of the cigarettes- not seeing the relevance. Next- to clarify that the drinking in question was during the time in Hertford. Sethie (talk) 21:27, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
replies: text: Much appreciated :) Ethmostigmus (talk) 01:25, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
thread_title: Final paragraph