Talk:Miracle at the Meadowlands

message: To the anonymous AOL editor who added that stuff about the Chiefs: It's nice but unfortunately doesn't really fit, since all those plays involve stupid penalties after the play that gave defeated teams a chance to win.
It'd be a nice thing to put in an article about football penalties, which we don't yet seem to have, though. Daniel Case 05:39, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments

message: Since this article mainly discusses similar happenings in the NFL, this may not be appropriate, but in a 1998 game between Tennessee and Arkansas, Arkansas had the lead within 2:00 left, looking to pull off the upset of the #1 ranked Vols. Arkansas QB Clint Stoerner tripped and fell, fumbling the ball, which was recovered by Tennessee, who put together a final drive the pull out the win.  This game helped Tennessee keep it's hopes for the National Championship alive, which Tennessee won.
This was not really a "similar" event as it did not involve a coaching blunder.  There was too much time (2:00) left on the clock for Arkansas to just fall on the ball and run it out.    —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.229.108.156 (talk) 18:04, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Similar incident in College FB- Tennessee v. Arkansas, 1998 

message: I added a fact tag for some material about everybody waiting for the kneel down. Does anybody know when teams first started doing the kneel down? Thank you. --70.109.223.188 (talk) 17:33, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The research I did while expanding this article seems to suggest it wasn't as common (and indeed somewhat controversial with older coaches who considered it unsporting) before this play, which graphically demonstrated why it was the best call in this situation. But, no one seems to know when it began, and who did it first. See quarterback kneel as well. Daniel Case (talk) 17:50, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you. --70.109.223.188 (talk) 13:05, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Fact tag

message: Unfortunately a number of issues with the article mean that at this time the nomination was not successful.
The primary issue is one of referencing. Large parts of the article are completely unreferenced. In general, any statement that could be challenged by a sceptical reader should be referenced. Other points of varying importance:
*First sentence of the body - It was the first meeting between the divisional rivals that season. What was? The lead should be able to stand separately from the body (see WP:LEAD).
*Scorelines should use endashes, see WP:DASH.
*The "Interesting coincidences" section looks like a trivia section under a different name. It also incorrectly describes the events as "ironic".
*Avoid informal terms (e.g. "wound up the game's goat") wherever possible.
*Quite a lot of the events described in the "similar plays" section seem to be linked to the subject of the article  tenuously at best. At a minimum, a reference showing that the media regard them as similar should be included. Oldelpaso (talk) 08:43, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: GA Nomination failed

message: I was watching an NFL Films clip on the MM and noted something. In the NFL Films documentary, it states that Pisarcik knelt on first down, then got roughed up a little. On second down, the Giants ran Csonka for 11 yards (presumably as retaliation), then on third down called the same play which resulted in the famous/infamous fumble. This sequencing is the reverse that is stated in the article (which goes run-falldown-fumble). I've also read accounts where Pisarcik's falldown was on first down, with the fumble on second down. Unfortunately, without either actual game footage or a play-by-play, I can't verify any of the three versions. 
I've also encountered a claim by fans that Csonka after the game said in the press that he deliberately "refused" to take the ball in protest of a foolish playcall, and that was the primary cause of the fumble. I find this dubious at best, and have been unable to find any sources to back that up. The source of the "Csonka refused" rumor is apparently Vince Papale, who mentioned it to a Giants/Syracuse fan during the press tour for "Invincible" who then mentioned it on a sports board. I don't doubt that how VP remembers it, or how he recalls it being told to him, but at the time he was an Eagle and not a Giant so he wasn't in a position to know. Does anyone have a cite for this? Tagryn (talk) 13:45, 26 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: While as the sources demonstrate I did thoroughly research the article, it was long enough ago that we were only strongly encouraged to list our sources at the end, not cite them as stringently as we do now. I don't recall any source saying that Csonka claimed to have refused the ball during the actual play, only what the article does have, that Csonka supposedly told Pisarcik he wouldn't take the ball as he walked away from the huddle and that Pisarcik's failure to hear him was one of the causes of the disaster that followed.Since Papale is still alive, it would be interesting if someone asked him this with a recording device running. We might get some more clarity on this. He could have known—as the article shows, players do talk to each other a lot on the field and he could have either heard Csonka, misheard Csonka or heard it secondhand from a teammate who had talked to Csonka or another Giant. Daniel Case (talk) 14:43, 26 October 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I found a copy I had of the "NFL Game of the Week" for this game, it also states that the first play was a kneel-down, the second play was an 11 yard run by Csonka, and the third play was the fumble. I'm going to see if I can rewrite that section based on the double-confirmation of the play sequencing.Tagryn (talk) 18:32, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: If you can cite it as a source (using, I don't know,  or whatever, that would be great. Daniel Case (talk) 19:04, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. Tagryn (talk) 18:48, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sequence of plays just prior to fumble/MM; Csonka "refused the ball" rumor 

message: Their next home game after that Miracle at the Meadowlands was against the St. Louis Cardinals the Giants won in a shutout.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.237.34.211 (talk) 14:08, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Uh, yes, the article already notes that, but only because there was a huge fan protest at halftime. Daniel Case (talk) 16:06, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Next home game 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: My understanding is that this book says the game was 'fixed': https://www.amazon.com/Interference-Organized-Influences-Professional-Football/dp/068808303X
158.123.57.254 (talk) 16:57, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Read it and tell us what it says. Daniel Case (talk) 14:22, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  criminal influence over game?