Talk:Pembrokeshire

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I have just modified 3 external links on Pembrokeshire. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150924070705/http://www.pembrokeshirevirtualmuseum.co.uk/content.asp?nav=1226%2C3601%2C3629&parent_directory_id=101 to http://www.pembrokeshirevirtualmuseum.co.uk/content.asp?nav=1226%2C3601%2C3629&parent_directory_id=101
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150924070652/http://www.pembrokeshirevirtualmuseum.co.uk/content.asp?nav=1226%2C3588&parent_directory_id=101&textonly=true to http://www.pembrokeshirevirtualmuseum.co.uk/content.asp?nav=1226%2C3588&parent_directory_id=101&textonly=true
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150924070616/http://www.pembrokeshirevirtualmuseum.co.uk/content.asp?nav=101%2C1226%2C3596%2C3600 to http://www.pembrokeshirevirtualmuseum.co.uk/content.asp?nav=101%2C1226%2C3596%2C3600
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Why,  and a portion of Carmarthen Bay. ? Do we need it and if so, which portion?  ‑ ‑ Gareth Griffith‑Jones The Welsh Buzzard ‑ ‑ 10:59, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Gareth: This part of the coastline section I had flagged as needing refs, but for now I have added "western". Tony Holkham (Talk) 11:07, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that makes sense now. Cheers! ‑ ‑ Gareth Griffith‑Jones The Welsh Buzzard ‑ ‑ 11:11, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Coastline 

message: The Pembrokeshire template has a list of 'Towns and Villages'; there is also a 'Communities of Pembrokeshire' template  with a similar, but not identical list. Is there a need for both? Should they be merged? Should both be updated?SovalValtos (talk) 02:29, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: For my part, I should prefer that both are retained. A merging would not be possible, given the complexities of the Communities' given names.Cheers! ‑ ‑ Gareth Griffith‑Jones The Welsh Buzzard ‑ ‑ 09:43, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  There is a need, as communities are administrative constructs and liable to change at the whim of the politician. What updating were you thinking was needed? Tony Holkham (Talk) 10:38, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Accepted that both are kept. The updating I had in mind was checking that there are no names just on one or the other that should be on both. Best left to someone who remembers the subtleties of Welsh community naming. Not me.SovalValtos (talk) 19:19, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Templates under 'Further reading' 

message: Hi , You are doing great work on this article. I know that this is not your contribution but I am unhappy with the following, "The nearest motorway to the county town of Haverfordwest is ..."Seems clumsy and why, in any case, single out the county town? Cheers! ‑ ‑ Gareth Griffith‑Jones The Welsh Buzzard ‑ ‑ 11:18, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I am revising it as follows:There are no motorways in Pembrokeshire. The nearest motorway is the M4 from London and South Wales, which terminates at the Pont Abraham services in Carmarthenshire some  from the county town of Haverfordwest. ‑ ‑ Gareth Griffith‑Jones The Welsh Buzzard ‑ ‑ 11:36, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Hi, . I was working on this section last night and got too tired to carry on. Your changes are good. There could be more trimming and tidying, though, and everything (with GA in mind, as I always have!) needs to be sourced. Between us, we will make it not just a Good Article, but a great one, eh? Cheers, Tony Holkham (Talk) 11:53, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Motorway 

message: The map
could benefit from Pembrokeshire's boundary being added. I am sorry but I do not know how to do it.SovalValtos (talk) 17:28, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text:  Agreed. I will ask at the teahouse, as I know there are Wikipedians who do such things. Tony Holkham (Talk) 21:50, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Update: now asked at WP:Graphics Lab/Map workshop. Tony Holkham (Talk) 23:37, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The map now has the county line on it. Tony Holkham (Talk) 11:24, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proportion of Welsh speakers/Landskeer map 

message: So far as I can see, the article is now fully sourced. But have I missed anything? Tony Holkham (Talk) 21:58, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I am proof reading and may have found some, but will come back when I finish.SovalValtos (talk) 12:39, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Sunshine hours for Dale not supported by the given source. The only places with reliable records are the three weather stations.SovalValtos (talk) 19:57, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Tenby and Penycwm climate figure comparisons are likely based on WP:OR. A discussion is under way at  which may well end with such a comparison being disallowed.SovalValtos (talk) 20:08, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: All three stations are Met Office stations, so unless I am missing something, they seem OK. Tony Holkham (Talk) 21:06, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

text: The second and fourth sentences of the Coastline and landscape section could do with some copyediting.SovalValtos (talk) 20:39, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: , please do, as I'm not sure what to make of them. Tony Holkham (Talk) 21:10, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

text: Should a source be found for an addition to the article about the significance of the Cleddau Bridge in terms of journey length etc?SovalValtos (talk) 20:48, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Probably more detail than is needed for the county article - maybe for the linked article (which I haven't looked at yet). Tony Holkham (Talk) 21:10, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citations 

message: I have nominated the article again, and hope this time the review will not throw up so many faults. I think we're close. Thanks,  and  for your support and most useful input. Tony Holkham (Talk) 21:55, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: have worked on this tirelessly, Tony, and it would be a crime if not accepted. Thank you! ‑ ‑ Gareth Griffith‑Jones The Welsh Buzzard ‑ ‑ 08:27, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Very kind, . There may be more to do, but hopefully not too much. Then I can get back to my lepidopteran WP habits. Tony Holkham (Talk) 10:51, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA nomination 

message: The lead seems a bit light. Any comments? Tony Holkham (Talk) 22:56, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Cultural, political and linguistic separateness. The political section does not have much on historic allegiances to summarise though.SovalValtos (talk) 23:28, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead 

message: Should the 'Filming location' section content be moved to the 'Media' section, either as is, or as a sub-section?SovalValtos (talk) 07:02, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a thought, and I don't have a strong opinion either way. I'm more concerned about whether imdb sources will be challenged. Tony Holkham (Talk) 10:55, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: OK leave as written.SovalValtos (talk) 19:38, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Filming location 

message: Eleanor Harrison (what a star!), best known for presenting Countryfile since 2009, opened last night's programme in Pembrokeshire saying, It is bordered by Carmarthenshire to the east, Ceredigion to the northeast, and the sea everywhere else.I wonder where she read that(?)! ‑ ‑ Gareth Griffith‑Jones The Welsh Buzzard ‑ ‑ 08:01, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Drat, missed it. I'll watch it on iPlayer. Tony Holkham (Talk) 09:43, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, you must. A great strand on a lovely couple running a goat farm and The Church of St. Brynach are the best bits. ‑ ‑ Gareth Griffith‑Jones The Welsh Buzzard ‑ ‑ 10:18, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Eleanor Harrison 

message: The former article History of Pembrokeshire was merged into and redirected to Pembrokeshire because it was not up to scratch. Now there is a decent and well-sourced amount of history, I wonder: is it time to re-establish the former article and cut back the history section in this one, as it is getting quite long? Thoughts? Tony Holkham (Talk) 16:49, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I expect there is a convention as to size in kB for when to make such a change, which I have not found. Meanwhile IMO it does not look overlong in comparison to some FAs; all of it fitting on one PC screen.SovalValtos (talk) 17:27, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I agree with . It is better kept here, all in one place. Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 11:39, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Another way of looking at it is to consider how the precis in the county article would be written in comparison to the full text in the History article. How much detail overlap would there need to be? I suppose in a way the History in the county article is already a precis of info from settlement and other articles on the area.  I think the county precis would still need full cites. It would not be like a lead/lede where they are not needed. Things may soon change regarding splitting given the rate of addition of material by our hard-working editors.SovalValtos (talk) 15:03, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Good points, thanks both. Happy to leave it as it is. (But I may still tweak it a bit!) Tony Holkham (Talk) 15:18, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  History 

message: - sorry to revert your edit, but defining "the sea" around Pembrokeshire is almost impossible - parts of Pembrokeshire are bordered by the Atlantic, Bristol Channel, St George's Channel, Irish Sea and Celtic Sea, so "the sea" is the best option. Cheers, Tony. Tony Holkham (Talk) 11:13, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  "The sea" 

message: I've found some interesting crime statistics showing the relative "safety" of Pembrokeshire compared with most of the rest of the UK - 
*“Safest force status will not make us complacent”, Dyfed-Powys Police vows
*Police urge caution in reading statistics as crime figures rise in Pembrokeshire
*Crime in Pembrokeshire compared with crime in other similar areas
*UK Crime stats for Pembrokeshire
Is crime something that should go in the article? If so, where? I am in two minds (not an unusual occurrence...), so would be interested in others' opinions on this. Tony Holkham (Talk) 22:29, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I think it should. Position it under a sub-heading in the Governance, politics and public services section. Cheers Tony! Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 10:25, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Care would need to be taken that the coverage is not just recentism and the sources are truly independent. The police might be considered to have a vested interest in putting things in a good light. Rather like Estate Agent speak of areas that are 'best in the country'. 16th, 18th and 20th century comparisons if available would be good. Similarly comparisons with similar sized areas in say Brazil, India and South Africa. Crime figures are notorious for caveats.SovalValtos (talk) 16:20, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, ; I agree with your placement suggestion. , I agree with your first point, but I wasn't thinking of going beyond the boundaries of the UK for comparison, which would be almost impossible to compare directly, and for the same reason I wasn't thinking beyond the current century. I will do some more digging - unless you already have any direct comparisons to hand? Clearly, we have to avoid original research wherever possible, but are any crime figures independently gathered, I wonder? Tony Holkham (Talk) 18:23, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Crime 

message: To: , , , , and other editors watching this page.
From: Patrick.
Dear colleagues, 
Since Legobot removed the RfC template automatically after 30 days (on 16:01, 27 April), and to accommodate SV's wish for this discussion to be afforded more time, I will re-apply it in the near future, per Restarting an RfC and for another 30 days of consultation with other editors who contribute to the RfC process. After that, I am hopeful that we can agree to proceed with implementing this de-cluttering improvement, unless more reviewers come forward with other counter-indication(s). Thanks.
With kind regards for now;Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(become old-fashioned!) 15:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you  for keeping us posted. All the best, Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 16:07, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: RfC request for the same discussion (10 May - 10 June 2020)

message: At the top of this talk page is a  template, stating that "This article is written in Welsh English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, realise, travelled), and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from American English or other varieties of English."  I really think that it ought to go. Aside from the fact that the spelling examples given are nothing to do with Wenglish, this article is most certainly not written in Welsh English; it's written in standard British English, as would be expected. Hogyn Lleol (talk) 09:16, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Removed. Hogyn Lleol (talk) 17:19, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: Welsh-English?

message: Dear ; Thank you for your edit, pointing me to editnotices, of which I was unaware; I'll set to learn all about them in the next few days. You could have chosen to use less contemptuous language in your edit summary, though; someone of your seniority ought to set the example by remaining unfailingly polite at all times, especially when a colleague makes a mistake out of ignorance and in good faith, as was clearly the case with the comment blocks I had added to assist future editors.With kind regards;Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(become old-fashioned!) 00:05, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not know of any other page that stuffs every section with hidden text like that. It's not even mentioned (let alone suggested or recommended) at WP:LDR. We do not do anything like that for any other unusual reference method )and your desire to explain it repeatedly shows that LDR is unusual). --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 07:35, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Dear ; Thank you for your prompt reply, above. I'll readily admit that my mistake was to have assumed (when our colleague Isaidnoway mentioned it in his post above: 8:38 pm, 16 April 2020) that "editnotices" were entered manually instead of being produced on request. Thanks to you, I have now learned from this and I appreciate it. The reason why I "stuffed" (as you say) each section with a short reminder to look at the top was motivated by the suggestion (see post above: 3:43 pm, 22 March 2020) that edits are generally carried out at section level instead of article level, and that other editors visiting the article for the first time might not be aware of our use of LDR here unless we pointed them to the instructions at the top of the article. I would have thought this was all quite logical, as we wanted to make LDR work well for everyone, while enabling our regular editors to benefit from its clear "de-cluttering" advantages. But if your edit immediately above was an apology for your earlier edit summary, then it is graciously accepted.Thank you for all your help and advice, and for all your contributions to our encyclopaedia.With kind regards;Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(become old-fashioned!) 09:23, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Editnotices 

message: Does anyone know why density rank doesn't appear in the infobox when there appears to be a template there? Tony Holkham (Talk) 15:43, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Dear ; !Happy New Year to you and yours, hoping you are keeping well and safe. All is well here.With kindest regards;Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(become old-fashioned!) 16:44, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, , coming up with the answer. Yes, all is well here, too. At least, as well as can be expected under the trying circumstances. Patience is a virtue, though...? Happy New Year, too.  Tony Holkham (Talk) 16:54, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Glad to read this. All is fine with me too. Happy New Year to you   and to you . All the best!Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 19:09, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Cheers, ! Tony Holkham (Talk) 19:15, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

text: Thank you very much, and Happy New Year to you too, ; I’m very pleased to know that you are keeping well and safe also.With kindest regards;Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(become old-fashioned!) 22:58, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Density rank 

message: @ ,  and .I expect you have spotted this programms tonight.Mind you, I need no excuse to watch Alice Roberts.Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 10:32, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Ah, thanks. Yes, Alice always "raises my sarsen stones", as they say on Time Team. I just heard on the radio that Stonehenge is actually second-hand! Martinevans123 (talk) 10:39, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, that made me smile, or is it grin?Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 10:42, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't mention the return the Elgin marbles campaign or a convoy of large trucks may be seen heading east towards Wiltshire?SovalValtos (talk) 10:56, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

text: Many thanks for your reminder, !Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(become old-fashioned!) 14:03, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: A very interesting programme. Maybe we now need an article for Waun Mawn:  with a link to Mike Parker Pearson! Martinevans123 (talk) 22:34, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I enjoyed all of it. Surely does need expanding into a stand-alone article.Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 11:25, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: User:Msrasnw has kindly started it off. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:40, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Dear Martin and Gareth, thanks for this ...Just started the page after watching the lovely little programme on iplayer and was suprised we didn't have one. Best wishes (Msrasnw (talk) 11:48, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: I noticed when  added the link on Stonehenge. Well done for all you have done so far. Cheers!Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 12:03, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't spoil the plot for me - I recorded it for watching later because it clashed with progs on Channel 4 and BBC 4. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 12:28, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Alice Roberts has bright red hair again  Well, there's quite a lot of rain... Martinevans123 (talk) 12:35, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

text: Actualy, the "plot" is revealed above in one of 's earlier posts.Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 12:53, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should be worth watching ... 

message: - can you help with this ref? I can't figure out what's wrong. Thanks, Tony. Tony Holkham (Talk) 10:51, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: - It's OK, I've found it. It was the wrong ref that was wrong (er, I think). Tony Holkham (Talk) 10:58, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you, , sorry to have panicked! You keep safe and well, too. Tony. Tony Holkham (Talk) 22:11, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ref 34 

message: The 'wettest place in Wales' claims are unreliable. Although the Western Mail (Wales Online) is normally accepted as a reliable  source, in this case it seems that the ranking is an inexpert interpretation of raw data from the Met Office. A blog posting by the Met Office says "We often get asked the question about where is the wettest town or city in the UK – and there are some news stories on this subject circulating in the media at the moment. While the current stories use some of our figures, this isn’t an analysis by us and wasn’t done using our complete records from across the UK." This has previously been discussed in relation to Cardiff (see Talk:Cardiff/Archive 2#Wettest city?), where the claim was removed. I will delete this paragraph. Verbcatcher (talk) 21:51, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wettest places in Wales