MediaWiki talk:Edittools/Archive 4

message: Right now, in the "Please note" section, it says:
*Only public domain resources can be copied without permission—this does not include most web pages.
I would propose a change, because some people just read it, see "public domain", don't understand it, and ignore it.  I would write
*Any work that does not say explicitely that it is released under a specific license or is in the public domain, including if it is released on the web, is copyrighted work, and cannot be copied to Wikipedia.
—Mets501 (talk) 00:42, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rewording 

message: When I go to edit a page, I mostly want to write text using the characters on my keyboard.  Occassionally, I want to enter other characters, which I find in the little box under the edit box.  Mostly, the characters I need are these:
€ £ ¥ $ ¢ © ® ™ « »  — – | … ~ # @ § ¶ • ¡ ¿ \ ≈ ± − × ÷ °
Just a few common symbols.  Right now, I can't find many of those, and the ones that are there are way too small to find in a list of so many characters.  I propose that we put common symbols (like those listed above) at the top of the character box in normal sized font, and then below those put the others that we have now, in a smaller font. —Mets501 (talk) 00:26, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Strong support - I often end up with my nose pressed against the screen trying to spot the degrees symbol. We should discuss exactly what symbols should be included - but that looks like a good start to me. Megapixie 04:07, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Strong support - this and the Layout of the "insert characters box" section just above. -Quiddity 04:14, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I doubt that we could do that, because I don't think there is any WP markup code for that, but I'm not certain.  Perhaps even a "show/hide" button to show or hide all of the characters, but by default show a few selected ones at the top. —Mets501 (talk) 11:51, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It would be quite possible.  You would use Unicode combining characters instead of the current preformed characters; browser support for these appears to be good in the case of character-accent combinations for which preformed characters exist.  Unicode combining characters are mostly in the code range U+300 to U+36F; there are also some more exotic ones in U+20D0 to U+20EB, U+1DC0 to U+1DC3, and U+FE20 to U+FE23.  Samples (top row is preformed, bottom is combining): 
ÁÀÂÄÃÇŢŮǍĀǖĂĊĄŁŐÁÀÂÄÃÇT̩ŮǍĀǖĂĊĄL̷ or L̸Ő
The T with vertical line below looks very slightly off for me (Firefox on Windows XP), and the L with solidus is hopeless, but the rest look identical.  The same is true for IE, except that both the T and L are totally worthless (the combining character displays as a box). —Simetrical (talk • contribs) 17:46, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  No, combining diacritics do not work for several reasons: you can't put them between the charinsert tags (at least, it doesn't result in something "clickable"). Even if this would work they cause a lot of redering problems (only few font/browser/OS combinations give acceptable results). For this reasons MediaWiki usualy normalizes characters as it did with most in your table above, expcept for Ţ and Ł (which don't display correctly over here). —Ruud 22:55, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Combining diacritics may be a problem with the charinsert tags, but a pretty easily fixable one.  As for lack of browser support, you may be correct; I didn't realize MediaWiki converts to the combined form on save (quite clever).  However, that's an advantage: if a combined form exists, it will be converted to exactly the same form as is used now, but the diacritic characters will take up much less space.  All that's needed is for charinsert to accept alternative displays for input characters, or even automatically generate them. —Simetrical (talk • contribs) 04:21, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's exactly our problem: charinsert does not accept alternative displays for input characters.  I've tried quite a bit in my sandbox and nothing works. —Mets501 (talk) 11:50, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, "pretty easily fixable" does mean "probably, from what I know, but only if you have SVN access", yes.  :)  I've voted for Mediazilla:3821; this idea will now have to be dropped until it's fixed. —Simetrical (talk • contribs) 00:57, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, we can give up on combining diacritical marks for now but let's not give up on this whole proposal! —Mets501 (talk) 01:24, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I see, I know what you're talking about now.  I suppose that would be possible (great if it works well) —Mets501 (talk) 21:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: After testing in my sandbox, I'm not sure how that would work.  The unicode diacritical marks don't display on their own, so I don't know how we'd get them to display in the edittools box so that users can click on them. —Mets501 (talk) 21:31, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have faith in the power of modern technology to make it possible for me to pick a diacritic to put atop a letter! bd2412 T 21:33, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Too many characters 

message: :Um, this no longer works for me, under the classic skin.  I see a line:
Insert: – — … ° ≈ ± − × ÷ ← → · §   Sign your name: --~~~~
:then two other lines:
Other Characters/Symbols
Wiki markup
:Where have the characters gone? -- ALoan (Talk) 17:10, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, and it's currently not working in my monobook, at least, though I think it was before. --Rory096 17:41, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Ya, I'm having this issue as well as many people on #vandalism-en-wp.  I'd like this reverted too.--digital_me(TalkˑContribs) 18:10, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Any admin, please change to the current layout at User:Mets501/Edittools, which does not use the special formatting. —Mets501 (talk) 18:13, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  My best guess would be that the CSS classes used to implement the show-buttons are only available in Monobook. They should probably be added to Common.css first. —Ruud 18:25, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Correct.  It works now. --Rory096 18:32, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

text: It probably needs the same <nowiki> stuff as on  and  --teb728 22:30, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, we need an admin to change  to {{+}}. —Mets501 (talk) 22:47, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: All fixed again, I asked Pilotguy to do it —Mets501 (talk) 22:53, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Oh good - seems to be working now.  Thanks. -- ALoan (Talk) 10:07, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

text: If you read above you will see that the show/hide feature worked only on on the Monobook and Cologne Blue skins. As I understand it users of other skins were able to see only the first line and had no way to show the hidden parts. So where you see above comments that it works again, that means only that the show/hide feature was (temporarily?) removed. I wonder, however, if it would work on all skins if show/hide were restored with everything in the show state by default? --teb728 18:06, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Ah, I see now: MediaWiki:Cologneblue.js is not activated even though it contains support for show/hide. Does anyone know if this means that show/hide will never work on all skins? --teb728 19:20, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It should work if we put it in MediaWiki:Common.js, right? Maybe we can get an admin to put it in (it can't hurt if nothing calls it) and then test the show/hide in the sandbox with all the different skins.  Thoughts? —Mets501 (talk) 19:34, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Nevermind, there's no MediaWiki:Common.js.  Does anyone know if there is a global javascript?  If we create  MediaWiki:Common.js will it apply to all skins? —Mets501 (talk) 19:35, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See Wikipedia:Catalogue of CSS classes --teb728 19:54, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: This doesn't work

message: Currently the IPA characters are so minuscule as to be unusable. I have to make the font setting in FireFox absolutely enormous to be able to distinguish ɛ, ɜ, ɝ and ɞ. Would it be possible to have them bigger, and maybe less interline spacing to make up for it? 
Also, a vote for grouping characters by language rather than type, if possible. ie: French: àäçéèêëîïôöùûü, rather than grouping all the acutes, all the graves etc. Thanks. Stevage 07:59, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Re: font size: It's easy if you're using Firefox. Just hold down "Ctrl" and roll your mousewheel down, to increase font size when you need it. --Quiddity 08:22, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Even better, change the font size of that section (See the top of this page) —Mets501 (talk) 21:55, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bigger font for special chars? 

message: please remove the link to the french version as an alternate language, it makes that little "In other languages" box appear everytime a page is edited.--Ac1983fan(yell at me) 18:39, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I saw that too, and it is gone. Titoxd(?!?) 00:54, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  French version 

message: I would sort of like an easy insertion tool for Russian/Cyrillic characters.  Naturally, I can make the default setting be display:none;, but I thought I'd be social and get permission first.
The most obvious objection, of course, is that older browsers don't like the  element; I don't know any way around it, unless someone could come up with a JavaScript that would allow editors to tweak the editools using their JS rather than the main page.
Comments?  Ingoolemo talk 04:38, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, I do not think that having older browsers pose a huge objection. It is fairly easy to upgrade one's browser. --Siva1979Talk to me 04:15, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually, it just occurred to me: as long as older browsers support CSS, they can still kill stuff they don't like.  And since the probably don't support JS at all, they wouldn't use edittools.  (All speculation of course.)  Ingoolemo talk 02:52, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Russian characters 

message: As mentioned in the top thread on this page, it might be a good idea to add a link to Wikipedia:Template messages after the wikimarkup list. (eg (templates) like the (polytonic list) link). -Quiddity 21:28, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, it may be a good idea. --Siva1979Talk to me 23:05, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Templates link 

message: Could I make a request for ə (schwa) to appear among the IPA characters? It's one of the most used phonemes among world languages, and its omission is quite glaring. It should certainly take precedence over ɚ, which may be used to represent certain renderings of schwa in American English, but is by no means as common. Thanks, Blisco 18:59, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: In case you haven't noticed, Schwa is already included in the Characters row, and is one of the last characters. My request is to include the diacritic for dental consonant, extremely important for contrastive phonetic transcription. d̪ (or its diacritic   ̪ ).Cygnus_hansa 13:53, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The lone symbol was not working, so I requested and got done the diacritic with t and d (dental)  IPA : t̪ d̪ from a friend.Cygnus_hansa 13:41, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Do you know the reason why the symbol was not working? --Siva1979Talk to me 03:46, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please include ə 

message: Has someone just switched English Wikipedia from left justification to full justification?  If so, this really sucks; please change it back promptly.  Badagnani 03:28, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Why does this "suck"? --Siva1979Talk to me 04:03, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Justification