Talk:Dilazak

message: Dilazak1 10:19, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Dilazak1 (and any allied parties): the use of "Afghan" to mean "Pashtun" is archaic and confusing. To refer to Karlanris as an "Afghan tribe" vice "Pashtun tribe" makes the issue unclear; "Afghan tribe" could mean they are Baluch, Aimaq, or one of dozens of other "tribal" grounds living in the modern Islamic Republic of Afghanistan. Further, to a modern reader the term "Afghan tribe" would not indicate that they live in Pakistan as well. "Pashtun tribe" covers both Afghanistan and Pakistan, and distinguishes them from other non-Pashtun tribal groups.
I understand that you have some historical/cultural affinity for the word "Afghan", but your adherence to it simply causes confusion in the modern era. MatthewVanitas (talk) 13:48, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I have given my reasons for removing India from the introductory sentence in the article. User Dilazak needs to know that there may be descendants of Dilazaks in India but they are not resident as a tribal group  nor are they living as Pashtun/Afghan community with Pashtunwali, Pashto language and culture. Furthermore their physionomy is no different than their fellow Indians thus revealing their inter-breeding with other Hindustani Muslims and perhaps Hindu converts to Islam. This is true for majority of other claimants to Yusufzais, Afridis and other tribes of Afghanistan and Pakistan. Let me further inform you that the Pakhtunkhwa province of Pakistan (formerly NWFP) is the East Afghanistan province and was only incorporated into India in early 20th century and so is still claimed by Afghanistan as its land so north western Pakistan is Pashtun homeland as is indicated in the name of Pakistan: P (Punjab) A (Afghanis) K (Kashmir) I (diacritical mark Zer) S (Sind) Tan (from Balochistan). Moarrikh (talk) 21:26, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Archaic use of term "Afghan" to mean "Pashtun" 

message: Dear Indian Dilazaki it is very absurd of you to call me a racist. If I am a racist then you have proved me right in that there can only be Indians of Dilazak descent but it is impossible to be Indian Dilazak - the term is both contradictory and paradoxical. My reason for not including India in the opening sentence of the article is simple in that India is not Pakistan or Afghanistan i.e. it is not a primary residence of the Dilazaki tribe. India can be mentioned later in the article as a place where some of the tribe travelled to a few centuries earlier thus there may still be some who can identify themselves as being descendants of the early settlers - others have assimilated over a long and protracted period of intermarriage. Your concept of Indian Dilazaki status in India itself betrays your naivete and immaturity. You're not the only one who follows this twisted logic. There seems to be a long list of Indian people who call themselves Mughal, Turk, Sayyad and Yusufzai/Afridi etc.who are at best descendants but nothing more. The Pashtuns do not call themselves Huns, Hepthalites or Jewish etc. despite the fact their history ascribes these origins to them. So get real and stay as a Hindustani and do not provoke BJP who only want you to call yourselves as sons of the Indian soil.
Do visit Dilazak talk page and read my justification for omitting India from the introduction. Don't lie it seems very peurile thing to do whilst calling me immature. Moarrikh (talk) 21:59, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Dear Indian Dilazaki

message: Mr Dilajacki,
I do not consider you a Pakistan based Pashtun or otherwise. I am born here and as an academic and historian of Pashtuns, particularly of Hazara-based tribes (including Hindko speaking comunities)I have a lot of knowledge both contemporary situations in the two countries. Whereas you are, regardless of what you say, are an Indian, as evidenced by your ignorance of the geography of administrative boundries of Pakhtunkhwa and Pakistan - you've made so many mistakes in 'your' article that it defies logic: mixing Punjabi zillahs with Pakhtunkhwa zillahs, not knowing where certain towns and people live or are based. You use Sher Khan Panni's first edition Tarikh e Hazara without critical perspective whereas Dr Sher Khan himself apologised for his mistakes and wrote a second edition to placate his critics with some errors remaining. His reliance on a Sikh's journal/memoirs is unfortunate. 
Dilazak is not tribe in Pakhtunkhwa or Afghanistan but urban community mainly in Peshawar. Furthermore, they are a Hindko speaking people, who may speak the lingua france of Peshawar ouside their home but domestically they are Kharays. In Hazara they are totally Hindko speaking and not Pashto speaking because the outside language is definately HINDKO too. The only people who speak Pashto in Haripur/Southern Hazara are the Mashwanis, who in reality are Syeds. The only people who speak Pashto as a first language, and perhaps Hindko as second language, are the tribes of upper Mansehra, Upper Tanawal, Toor Ghar, Battagram etc. I visit these areas as well as other parts of Pakhtunkhwa regularly.
Last but a major issue is that you insist on putting India as a primary residence of the Dilazaks which is utterly absurd and a primie facie case of your Indian roots. You seem to know too much of Indian geography and not of Pakistan. There are descendants of major Pashtun tribes of Yusufzai, Afridis, Tanaolies in greater numbers in India but none of their articles list India as their primary residence for the tribes in the introductory sentences. I did say to you that I have no objection to this being mentioned later in the article as it is briefly mentioned for the tribes referred to above. Also I consider you racist when you refuse Bangladesh, Malaysia etc. as being places where descendants are also living. 
My thesis is that descendants living away from the major tribe soon get mixed up with surrounding people and DNA, culture and language changes make people a different group ethnically as well racially. Syeds of Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India and Bangladesh are not Arabs after hundreds of years even if we accept they are were originally from the Prophet's family. As you yourself said the origins of the Afghans is no longer their identity due to centuries of admixture with others in their surroundings. Indian 'Dilazaks' likewise are not Dilazaks nor Pashtuns anymore. At best Dilazak is only one of their ancestory among other Hindu and Muslims paternal/maternal descent. 
I hope this clrifies my thesis. My constant reverts of your reverts to my edits were both annying and offensive. You refused to engage in a dialogue to arrive at a consensus. In all of Wikipedia articles on Pashtun/Afghan tribes in all these years not a single article has been written by an Afghni/Pakistani Pakhtun writer but it was an Indian pupotedly of Dilazak origin who took it upon himself to do this. What does this tell you? 
I maintain that you are an Indian and not a Pakistani as exemplified by your refusal to accept Pakhtunkhwa as an Afghan territory, thus betraying your hatred of Pakistan - typical Indian Muslim situation despite claiming it as homeland. My position is clear Pakhtunkhwa is Eastern Afghanistan whether you like it or not whereas you are an Indian, maybe of Dilazak ancestory but not a Pashtun. Period.
Moarrikh
The posts below are copies of my contributions to Dilazak1 reproduced here for all to read and appreciate my points when objecting to Dilazak1's writes/rewrite/reverts to my editing out of India from the introductory sentence to the article. As Dilazak1 initiated the article and sees his Indian version of the article as true then I am requesting Pashtuns and other fair-minded people to get involved and contribute to the debate. Wikipedia has had Pashtun articles and debates for many years but no articles have been written about them - only Mr Diljak comes in with an article on a people whose Afghan credentials have been challenged by historians in the past and present and of course contemporary Pashtuns in Pakhtunkhwa and elsewhere. Please and contribute:  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Moarrikh (talk • contribs) 17:13, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Mr Dilajacki

message: I am referring the matter to 'Wiki Administrators' for arbitration
Dilazak1 12:52, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Reply

message: I have referred the matter for arbitration at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Statement_by_Dilazak1
Dilazak1 13:46, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: for [[Moarrikh]]

message: •	Two questions have been asked:- 
1.	Is India a primary residence for the Dilazak along with Afghanistan and Pakistan? 
2.	Is Pakhtunkhwa a historical eastern Afghanistan province of Afghanistan? 
•	I will answer both questions in near future as I can’t spare time for now due to my personal commitments. However, following suggested aspects or variants of these questions may be discussed by contributors:- 
Question 1
a)	As it is given above but including all other Afghan tribes as well (Discussing only Dilazak may qualify them but may disqualify others).
b)	If India is not a homeland to the Dilazak and other Afghans then is Pakistan? 
c)	If India and Pakistan both are not homelands to the Dilazak and other Afghans, then is Northern Afghanistan a homeland to any Afghan Tribe? 
d)	Which is actual homeland of Afghans? 
Question 2
a)	As it is given above in the statement of the question. 
b)	Who were actual inhabitants of Eastern Afghanistan and where were their power centers? 
c)	Is it vice versa that Eastern (Or Northern) Afghanistan was actually a part of present day Pakistan?
Meanwhile, I would request worthy contributors to sight their reference with every point and reference should be an established research work or likewise but not articles of present day websites and blogs and gazetteers. If discussion creates heated debates or gets too lengthy, I suggest that new page may be created. 
Hearsay or chitchat will not be responded.
 One last request to contributors, one of my friends who is actually an accountant in Leeds Metropolitan University and claims himself as linguist and anthropologist (just for fun) wants to know about his origins as he is a Tanoli (Though he mostly remains quite perturbed about Afghans). I would appreciate if someone could help him else I will have to perform this duty.
Dilazak1 15:48, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Reply

message: Alot of misleading info from unreliable sources. Please correct it. Azmarai76 (talk) 18:57, 12 January 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clean up needed