Talk:IBM 2741

message: The 2741 originated at the Thomas J. Watson Research Center. A project led by Steven Firth created the 2741 (and drove it to market) to support the ATS/360 ("Administrative Terminal System") software product, a text editing and storage system which otherwise would have had no commercially practical user terminal. ATS/360 was implemented in IBM/360 assembler; it first ran under DOS and then was migrated to MFT. ATS/360 included its own proprietary time-sharing software as did other 360 time sharing applications of those days. I know because I extensively modified and extended ATS/360 in the late 1960s and early 1970s.
:I first remember the 2741 from CRBE, and later with WYLBUR. It wasn't until the 3705 that I could use ASCII terminals with WYLBUR. Gah4 (talk) 01:43, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: A few years earlier (1968 or so) I saw a time sharing system offering Fortran capabilities on a 2741. We used the Manifold element with it. I don't know what the host OS or computer was, though. Jeh 07:16, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

text: In case it is of any interest, from 1972 thru 1975, I wrote CAI modules [subject: organic chemistry nomenclature] using a 2741 connected via a modem and leased line to an IBM 360/155 located at the SUNY Binghamton campus sixty miles west of the CCC campus. I still have that APL typeball somewhere in a box packed away from those days. And wonderful days they were. I should never have left software to go into electrical engineering I can tell you!  :-)  JimScott 07:56, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other software 

message: In the image of the 2741 APL keyboard layout used in this article, I think it's missing an Greek IOTA over the "I". Shift-"I" should give an IOTA for APL. --- Wikiklrsc (talk) 02:26, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: That's what it says in my refs too. Jeh (talk) 05:32, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  Thanks, Jeh. That's the way it was when I used APL in the 1960s. Maybe it's a trick? Like the cartographer's trick: leave out some town or put one fictitious town in to prove copyright? Anyway, I have no easy idea how to get the IOTA back on the keyboard layout in the image. Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc (talk) 18:40, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

text:  I wrote to the uploader and he uploaded the correct keyboard layout. Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc (talk) 18:58, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image of 2741 APL keyboard layout 

message: Google image search provides three hits for "IBM 2741".  Two of these hits are now external references from the article. All three Google hits seem to have different scanned versions of the same photograph. I suspect the photo came from an IBM manual. I asked the person who maintains the acis/history/2741.html page at Columbia. is replay was: "It's not my photo.  I have no idea whose it is."
It would be nice to have the photo on wiki (columbia U has best scan) if permission could be obtained from IBM or whoever took the photo.Rdmoore6 21:54, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not the whole of a 2741 but almost certainly the mech. Hope the article text is a suitable compromise. No reason to not link the page either. Jeh (talk) 21:33, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  2741 photograph 

message: There is a question about IBM 2741's coming in non-desk versions.  I do remember the portable versions, but don't remember looking at the sticker to see who made it.  I only remember the white desk like the bottom picture, not the wood grain desk like the APL picture. I had thought that was a portable version sitting on a desk, but it is hard to tell from the picture.  I used these a lot 40 years ago, and even was allowed to bring a portable one home one night. (There weren't many for that use.)   I do remember the portable version had more electronics in the back, that the APL picture doesn't show.  What were the clones called?  Gah4 (talk) 01:37, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: In the picture of the wood grain desk you'll notice a black "rim" around what appears to be the bottom of the machine. This is the same rubber bushing that is obvious when you see the usual 2741 embedded into the square white desk. I notice foreign-language documents on the wood grain desk - maybe that desk was a "special" sold in another country. Or, I suppose it is possible that somebody took a 2741, removed the Selectric mechanism from the desk, and put the electronics package (which was not small!) under the desk of their choice. But all of the pictures in the "IBM 2741" documents do show it built into a square white desk. Jeh (talk) 08:31, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

text: Did IBM make the wood grain desks?  As above, someone might have replaced the IBM desk, moving all the electronics and mechanics. (And, I suspect, terminating any warranty coverage.)  I think all the APL stories I ever knew, people put APL balls on regular 2741s. (So the wrong keyboard.)  Maybe real APL 2741s have wood grain desks?  Very strange. Gah4 (talk) 23:38, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Desk or not? 

message: Does this really belong here? It's more about the Selectric and its interchangeable elements than about the 2741. Those Algol 68 documents might as well have been prepped on a Selectric with the "correspondence coded" APL element. There is no mention or evidence here that an actual 2741 terminal was used. I think this deserves to be a sentence or two in the IBM Selectric typewriter article (it already mentions the prevalence of the IBM Symbol element's output in various math and science papers). Jeh (talk) 19:23, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Algol 68 connection 

message: I was going to disagree with the removal of the mention of control-C, but I suspect that the reference will be lost to enough readers, that it isn't so useful.  Though Control-C#In_command-line_environments might not be so bad. Gah4 (talk) 08:18, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  control-C