Talk:Japan/Archive 6

message: Japan often receives Korean's complaint. As a result, this article often becomes an edit battle. 
The controversy part of the Japanese and the South Korean was brought together. 
===China===
"Japan adopted many Chinese customs and institutions beginning in the 5th and 6th centuries."
The Japanese and the Korean agree to this article. 
 
===Japan adopted many Korean Custom===
"Japan adopted many Korean customs and institutions beginning in the 5th and 6th centuries."
I think that it should describe only China. China can be easily found in our custom. But we do not feel Korea in our custom.　--HaradaSanosuke 15:46, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Japanese VS Korean controversy

message: "Japan adopted many Korean customs and institutions beginning in the 5th and 6th centuries."
I think that it should describe only China. China can be easily found in our custom. But we do not feel Korea in our custom.　--HaradaSanosuke 15:46, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Japan adopted many Korean Custom

message: Japnese
This is a very insincere content. The foreign country that contributed to a lot of Japan is denied. And, information written here is not correct. Or, the exaggeration is large. Please delete the full text in this part. Even if this part doesn't exist, it can explain Japan. It is also unnatural that this article is put after the story in the Asuka age. 　--HaradaSanosuke 17:05, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Baekje

message: <B>Korean</B> <BR>
*please stop mentioning the introduction of Christianity in Japan by the Society of Jesus in the 16th century in Japan's introductory paragraph when it is really a minor fact.--Sir Edgar 04:58, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Society of Jesus

message: <B>Korean</B> <BR>
*Not many people have heard of rangaku.--Sir Edgar 23:10, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Rangaku

message: <B>Japan</b> 
At first, I would like to say that I am very pleased to read the many briliant articles on Japan in English Wikipedia. However, I felt some out of place with some points, especially on the cultural relationships between Korea and Japan. In fact, Japan adopted many Chinese culture. And, there were lots of cultural interchanges between Korea and Japan. For example, Kofun,Magatama and so on. However curiously, according to the context of this artcle, there is no cultural interchange between Korea and Japan. This is really strange. At least, Japan had made choice among Korean culture, AND, Korea had made choice among Japanese culture. Especially, resolved DNA of rice crop is originated in Japan, not Korea. This mean Korea adopted japanese style rice field. At least, we should write the cultural interchange between Korea and Japan, and it is not unilateral adoption. If you need some evidences, please read the japanese wikipedian article and the citations. Thank you.-Questionfromjapan 
<B>Korean</b> 
Japan did not really have "cultural exchanges" with Korea and China. It imported culture and institutions from these countries. Buddhism was not "obtained", it was exported. --Sir Edgar 23:10, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Cultural interchange between Korea and Japan

message: I think it'd be good to point out somewhere in the article the mixed use of 50Hz and 60Hz electrical power in Japan, as it's the only country (to my knowledge) that has such a combination. Where should it be placed in the article, though, if it should be at all? --moof 00:20, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It might be a good idea to collect several categories of information in an infrastructure section in Economy. Fg2 06:54, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm inclined to either delete this trivia or more likely modify it, as the Philippines has a curious mix of electrical power as well...most of the country is on 240 V/50 Hz, while parts of Baguio City have 120 V/60 Hz, due to the former presence of an American army base there. Note that I may have switched the 50/60 Hz quotes by mistake. --Tachikoma 15:14, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Electrical power in Japan 

message: How do you add references. You can find in any encyclopedia information about Koreans migrating to Japan with new technology but when I tried to cite it, I can't get it to come up correctly. On one of the sections it wanted you to add a citation for Koreans migrating to Japan with new technology. You can reference it with encarta or encyclopedia Brit. May be some on else can add it. 
                           Vex
:Enclose the cited material in the format CITED MATERIAL at the place you want to cite and it will appear under the "References/notes" section at the bottom. Skinnyweed 18:14, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: references

message: As a non-editor at this page who has been watching the goings-on here today, I may be saying something that the regulars are already aware of. It seems fairly clear to me-- due to the nature of the edits, and the English style used-- that what you've got is one vandal with multiple IDs who also edits anonymously. Whether he's doing this to avoid a 3RR-block, or to make it appear that his edits have more support than they do, I don't know. And what can be done about it? Again, I don't know. Just thought I'd point out the obvious. -- Rizzleboffin 00:20, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I've been watching it (but not reverting again so I don't break 3RR). I reported all four of them to be checked. Now we're just waiting on the outcome of that. In my mind, there's no doubt they are either a) all the same person using multiple accounts, or b)multiple users working in concert to remove NPOV from the article. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 00:28, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've blocked the socks indefinitely, and Bright888 for one week. HenryFlower 17:27, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  User:61.35.26.163, sockpuppet?  Similarities with Bright888 include the use of Battle of Baekgang, sloppy use of historical facts, bad spelling.  Tortfeasor 23:04, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Blocked for one week. HenryFlower 06:10, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Multi-ID Vandal 

message: Hello. I am Japanese. I say frankly. 
I think that it should describe only China. China can be easily found in our custom. But we do not feel Korea in our custom.　(Of course, I like Kimchi. However, I love pasta any more. ) Please delete "Korea" if "Korea" is a cause of the edit battle. Korea is not small existence in the history of Japan. However, it is not always necessary in the history of Japan. In a simple Japan guide, Korea is often omitted. What does the Japanese excluding me think?
By the way, how is a final edit done?  I return it to the first setting. --HaradaSanosuke 15:46, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, omitting Korea is often the Japanese bias, even in academic circles in Japan. We try to offer a more balanced and accurate perspective based on facts in Wikipedia.--Sir Edgar 23:38, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Kamosuke, read a damn history book for once. Your version sucks, man.--222.233.205.197 08:00, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: They seem to angry at groundless edit. Do you means that Kamosuke's edit is groundless? Does he attempt to explain ground of his version? Reito-maguro 06:20, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

text: For instance, a big grave in the southern part of a Korean peninsula is a duplicate of Kofun of Japan. This is because the royal family in a lot of Korean peninsulas was sent to Japan by the hostage. I think that Edger is detailed to the episode of Korea. However, I do not think that Edger is detailed to the line of the history of Japan. 
The Korean graves are older than the ones in Japan. Carbon dated older.
Sir Edgar 00:43, 12 May 2006
 
Anti-Korean vandalism
I would like to ask people to:
1. Please stop removing references to Korea in this article. 2. Please stop changing "Korea" to "Korean Peninsula" or "Asian Mainland".
There is overwhelming archaeological, historical, genetic, and other evidence of massive Korean influence on Japan (perhaps even more than Chinese influence). We have discussed this issue over and over and provided links, etc.
I am one of the people who have brought this article to the quality that it is now, so that it could be listed as a "good article". I will not allow vandals and those uneducated in the basics of East Asian history to dilute its quality.
Most of the edits have been from anonymous users, but anyone registered who engages in this behavior will be reported as a vandal.--Sir Edgar 00:43, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Japanese opinion

message: I just realized that sumo is not even mentioned in the article! How did we let this happen? I think we should definitely have a Sports in Japan section that includes discussion of sumo, baseball, football, etc. And go, too! I will start one, but please help! Thank you.--Sir Edgar 23:32, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: There is a nice photo, so it's not completely missing, but a brief section on recreation would be useful. It can link to the longer articles. Fg2 16:53, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  No sumo??? 

message: As you guys have been editing this one for a long time, so before I remove something someone is particularly attached to, better talk about it :
- "dwarf state" is mentionned twice in very close sections. Not that what is written is factually problematic, but for the flow of the article there should be a way to regroup those ?
:I also found it odd mentioned again in the Etymology section. It was originally in the History section. Repetition is unnecessary in this case. I would edit it out of the Etymology section because frankly I think it's worded better in the later section.
- any way of putting the slow conquest of the North somewhere ? (ainu / emishi...)
:Yes, I'm very interested in this topic! It's quite difficult to get much information from Western sources on this. Until recently, I didn't even know that Hokkaido wasn't fully conquered until the 19th century. We can put this in the History section, of course. But only a sentence or two. 
- The state was not always centered in Nara during the Nara period (eg between 740-745), this is a detail, but there should be a way for a better formula.
:Good point. Let's see how we can phrase this better. 
- Maybe put something about the development / spread of kana in Heian period (development of a more indigenous form of culture)?
:Whoa! You've just made a very good point. There is no mention of the Tale of Genji, the world's first novel. I'll put that in immediately. 
- Leaving the Sei-tai Shogun for Yoritomo here would require an explanation. I suggest to simply remove it
:I don't have an opinion about this as I'm not very knowledgeable about it. 
- It may help to put in brackets what Sankinkotai Bakuhan taisei are ?
:Someone did that.
- economics : should general info about transportation go in the infrastructure part ?
:Perhaps. 
- "The prefectures are commonly grouped into regions, with five (or more) on Honshu". The "(or more)" looks kind of weird without explanations.
:Please offer an edit suggestion then. 
:Thanks for your help!--Sir Edgar 04:35, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you for advice to my Talk page. And, the Japanese can also agree to your detailed point. I think that I should add two policies of Toyotomi-Hideyoshi. (Katana Hunt, Cadastral Surveys by Taiko )　How about your opinion?　--HaradaSanosuke 16:57, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I do not think those would fit in this general introductory article about Japan. Probably more in the more detailed History of Japan or Azuchi-Momoyama period article (maybe they are already there). Tensaibuta 23:29, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  A few details 

message: Shouldn't literature be included in the sentence: "In the pre-modern era, Japan developed a distinct culture, in its arts: (ikebana, origami, ukiyo-e), crafts (dolls, lacquerware, pottery), performances (bunraku, dance, kabuki, noh, rakugo), traditions (games, onsen, sento, tea ceremony, budo, architecture, gardens, swords), and cuisine."? (The main Japanese Lit article starts out, "Early work was heavily influenced by Chinese literature, but Japan quickly developed a style and quality of its own." 
Also, it wouldn't take up much more space to mention the nobel prize winner's names, would it? (Yasunari Kawabata and Kenzaburo Oe). I think Kamosuke is correct that mention of The Tale of Genji belongs in even the briefest discussion of Japanese literature... but this article doesn't discuss Japanese literature, it just mentions literature in passing as one aspect of Japanese culture. The paragraph in question speaks about Japan of "today," so it doesn't fit in that paragraph either. -- Rizzleboffin 17:26, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I've put The Tale of Genji in the appropriate History and Culture sections. Kamosuke could have done this easily, instead of engaging in vandalism. I agree we've missed a key fact though.--Sir Edgar 00:06, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

text: I think about the element that composes the Japanese Literature. In Japan Literatur, there are two classifications. It is short poetry (Tanka and Haiku) and a long novel. And, the explanation of the Kana character might be needed. and The female writer's activity might be important. --HaradaSanosuke 17:01, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

text: And I want to make Japan of Fiction. It will be written about Ninja and Samurai. How about your opinion?　--HaradaSanosuke 17:01, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  There are quite detailed Japanese Literature and Japanese poetry articles, you might want to take a look there. I think references to the Tale of Genji are probably enough to the entry article to Japan (I am however thinking how to mention Kana). As for a reference to fictionnal Japan, where would you think they would fit ? Tensaibuta 10:15, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Literature 

message: According to the banner at the top of the article, the article on Japan has been semi-protected, so as to prevent new or unregistered users from editing it. Why, then, have there been at least 2 edits by anonymous users during the short time that I've been online? Shouldn't this be impossible? I don't mean to pick on anonymous editors, but rather to find out why semi-protection apparently fails to work as claimed.--Tachikoma 15:45, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Is this article really semi-protected? 

message: I spend half my time on this article reverting vandalism or erroneous edits by anonymous users. Who said two of the introductory paragraphs should be combined? Did anyone agree with the use of "State of Japan" vs. just "Japan"? Can we please have this page protected? Thank you.--Sir Edgar 05:28, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: See WP:RFPP.Voice-of-All 05:38, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you. Just listed for semi-protection.--Sir Edgar 06:03, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

text: Edgar, I think You have to discuss with above section(The source is falsified) before requesting for protection.--Celldea 16:43, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I was expecting a lot more from the new Japanese Wikipedian accounts, not this. I'll do it on my own time, thank you.--Sir Edgar 00:51, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request for Protection. 

message: :Among the contributions I have made, in terms of content, to this article*:
:1. "During the 8th century, the emergence of an indigenous culture sparked a "golden age" in Japan called the Heian period, characterized by aesthetic refinement and aristocratic sophistication. The arts and literature flourished, culminating in Lady Murasaki's writing of The Tale of Genji, the world's first known novel."
:2. "The Tokugawa shogunate, established in 1603, began to pursue the Sakoku ("closed country") policy of isolation that lasted for two and a half centuries. The arrival of U.S. Commodore Matthew Perry's "Black Ships" and the signing of the Convention of Kanagawa in 1854, signaled the opening of the country to the West."
:3. "The first signs of civilization appeared around 10,000 BC with the Jomon culture, characterized by a Mesolithic to Neolithic semi-sedentary hunter-gatherer lifestyle of pit dwelling and a rudimentary form of agriculture. Weaving was still unknown and clothes were often made of bark. Around that time, however, the Jomon people started to make clay vessels, decorated with patterns made by impressing the wet clay with braided or unbraided cord and sticks (Jomon means "patterns of plaited cord"). This led to the introduction of the earliest known type of pottery in the world."
:4. "The start of the Yayoi period around 300 BC marked the influx of new practices such as rice farming, shamanism, and iron and bronze-making brought by migrants from Korea, and possibly China. These formed the basic elements of traditional Japanese culture, still seen today. As the population increased and society became more complex, they wove cloth, lived in permanent farming villages, constructed buildings of wood and stone, accumulated wealth through landownership and the storage of grain, and developed distinct social classes."
:5. "The Japanese did not start writing their own histories until the 5th and 6th centuries, when the Chinese writing system, Buddhism, advanced pottery, ceremonial burial, and other aspects of culture were introduced by aristocrats, artisans, scholars, and monks from Baekje, one of the Three Kingdoms of Korea."
:6. "However, historians believe the first emperor who actually existed was Emperor Ojin, though the date of his reign is uncertain."
:7. "The emergence of a distinct indigenous culture in Japan sparked a "golden age" in Japan called the Heian period which lasted for nearly four centuries. After absorbing so much from the continent over several centuries, the Japanese began to experience a growing sense of self-confidence and appreciation of their own land and heritage, leading to the development of an indigenous Japanese culture. The arts and literature flourished and, in the early 11th century, Lady Murasaki wrote the world's first known novel called The Tale of Genji. Although trade expeditions and Buddhist pilgrims continued, the court decided to terminate official relations with China. The Fujiwara clan's regency regime dominated politics during this period."
:8. "On March 31, 1854, Commodore Matthew Perry and the "Black Ships" of the United States Navy forced the opening of Japan to the West with the Convention of Kanagawa."
:9. "By 1910, Japan controlled Korea, Taiwan, and the southern half of Sakhalin."
:10. "Japan remains a global economic power today and is now bidding for a permanent seat on the United Nations Security Council."
:11. "As of 2006 Japan is the only country in the world which is headed by an emperor."
:12. "Japan maintains close economic and military ties with its key ally, the United States, and the US-Japan security alliance serves as the cornerstone of its foreign policy."
:13. "Japan's relationship with its neighbors, however, can be described as tenuous at best."
:14. "Beginning in the Heian period, Japan developed a distinct culture of its own. Lady Murasaki's The Tale of Genji, written in the early 11th century, is the world's first known novel. Japanese civilization flourished during this time and a refined sensibility and interest in the arts began to set in."
:15. "Sumo is considered Japan's national sport and is one of its most popular. In the 8th century AD, Emperor Shomu (724-749) held lavish tournaments where the best wrestlers in the country competed before hundreds. Professional sumo can trace its roots back to the Edo period as a form of sporting entertainment. Today, six major tournaments are held every year in Japan, each one lasting 15 days. Three are held in Tokyo (January, May, and September) and one each in Osaka (March), Nagoya (July), and Fukuoka (November)." 
:16. "Beginning in the 12th century, Japan developed traditional martial arts known as budo, which were popular among the warrior class. These include judo, karate, kendo, and others. Judo has been recognized as an official event in the Olympic Games since the 1964 Summer Olympics in Tokyo. It is also one of the four main forms of amateur competitive wrestling practiced internationally today."
:17. "After the Meiji Restoration, various kinds of Western sports were introduced into Japan."
:18. "Baseball arrived in 1872 and during the 1870s, track and field events, football, rugby, and ice skating were introduced. In 1911, an Austrian gave skiing instruction to the Japanese army. In those days, Western sports were played by few people, but through the educational system they spread throughout the country. Western sports were initially stressed as a form of mental discipline, but Japanese have now come to enjoy them as recreational activities."
:19. "Today, baseball is the most popular spectator sport in Japan, followed by (in no particular order) football, rugby, golf, badminton, table tennis, car racing, and fishing."
:20. "Each year, Japan observes the second Monday in October as a national holiday called Health and Sports Day. 
:21. "Other major sporting events that Japan has hosted include the 1972 Winter Olympics in Sapporo and the 1998 Winter Olympics in Nagano. It also co-hosted the 2002 FIFA World Cup with South Korea."
:*Edits by other users included.
:In addition, I have copy edited this article hundreds of times and reverted vandalism countless times. 
:The people that are criticizing me seem to focus on simply deleting any reference to Korea in the article. Everything else I've done is completely ignored and yet this obsession with eliminating any kind of reference to Korea (except, interestingly, invasion or control of Korea by Japan) goes on and on. I am a specialist on ancient Japanese and Korean civilizations. This is what I am interested in. I also have an interest in their modern societies and cultures, especially if it involves football. I have no political agenda and am merely promoting correct and complete information in Wikipedia.   
:In the process, these people are deleting valuable and relevant content. One anonymous user even edited "Japan (Japanese: 日本, Nihon or Nippon) is an island country located in the Pacific Ocean, east of China and Korea..." to "Japan (Japanese: 日本, Nihon or Nippon) is an island country located in the Pacific Ocean, east of China..." Should the country of Korea be wiped off the face of the planet? It's right next to Japan. How ridiculous is this? 
:Some ask for evidence and provide none themselves besides opinion. If you challenge anything in the article, please discuss it in the Talk page and provide evidence first. Do not ask others to do all the work for you. Please be reasonable and keep your manners.--Sir Edgar 06:59, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: People who distort facts like this should not edit articles... With the above comment, now everyone can see what we are confronting in keeping this article balanced. One could say this is the Japanese bias against Korea. Mitigate or delete any association, besides conquest or domination. I find it terribly inappropriate, even colonial and backward. Very perplexing, indeed. It's almost like a strange sort of insecurity or complex. More analysis required...--Sir Edgar 01:49, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I hope you understand that this isn't a Japanese bias against Korea, it's one or more individuals with no life. If there's actually more than one person up against you, I suspect it's a 2ch thing; all the Korea-haters in Japan seem to hang out there. Don't take it too seriously. - Sekicho 12:21, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Positive contribution vs. vandalism  

message: what are the effect of underpopulation/Sub-replacement fertility on japan's economy, and any other problems or benifits, as well as the causes  --voodoom 09:04, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: One effect is that rural Japan is emptying out at an alarming rate. However, you won't notice the problem so much in urban areas like Tokyo, where there's enough migration (and immigration) to keep the population stable or growing. - Sekicho 12:21, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  declining birth rate