Talk:Abracadabra

message: This is an interesting article but I am not convinced of the research. 
Of the old languages, Hebrew is the youngest and, I believe the phrase is older than anything written in a relatively recent (and here the word "recent" is not to be taken too literally) language. Gingermint (talk) 00:18, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: What I would like to see here, is a sound bite of the proper Aramaic pronounciation, or at the very least a phonetic spelling. Zuiram 19:43, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Interesting But How True?

message: I removed the following from the article:
: the Arabic Abra Kadabra, meaning 'Blessing' as saying ( Baraka...Baraka )
A friend who is a native speaker of Arabic assures me that this certainly isn't the case. -- Hex 00:00, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Arabic"? 

message: Please change the article to use Template:OtherUses instead of Template:otheruses it currently uses. The OtherUses template has information about the contents of the article.
 
For a sample use of this template refer to the articles Alabama or Algiers--—The preceding unsigned comment was added by DuKot (talk • contribs) .
:Note that that functionality is now at .  redirects to , and is deprecated.--Srleffler 18:41, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  OtherUses template 

message: It is written:
"Another possible source is the Hebrew Aberah KeDaber which also means I will create as I speak"
There is no such thing in Hebrew. The phrase Aberah KeDaber in Hebrew means "Abera (gibbrish) while someone told me". The only possible proxminate phrase is "Evrah Kedabri" (אברא כדברי), I will create as I speak or "Evrah Kidvari" (אברא כדברי), I will create as I have said I will. 192.115.133.141 00:58, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: You are mistaking modern Hebrew for more ancient forms. 75.3.236.39 (talk) 04:08, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  No such thing: ''Aberah KeDaber'' 

message: I'm moving this addition to the talk page unless someone can cite a reliable source for it.  It would seem plausible, given the power people place on alphabets, except that leaving out the first "r" is not "much more common" in my experience (I've never heard of it), and it's a completely different explanation from the others, which all involve corruption of foreign words.  --Allen 22:52, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  alphabet origin 

message: The article on the magical formula of Abra-c-adabra contains the Thelemic 93 template, shown at right, while at the same time the Thelemic Abra-h-adabra page has been suggested for merging into the Abra-c-adabra page. Something should be done to rectify this, because right now the appearance is one of Themites colonizing and Borging non-Thelemic pages. 
I suggest that either the Cadabra page should make a bare mention of Thelema, refer to the main Hadabra page, and lose the 93 template -- or that the whole Hadabra page, with its 93 template, be moved over to Cadabra, where it can become one subsection of many. Comments welcomed. Catherineyronwode 22:42, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with the 1st suggestion. Here should be a brief synopsis, and refer to the main Hadabra article. I'll remove the template, someone else can shorten/merge the thelema paragraphs here. --Quiddity 19:18, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I fully admit that I went template crazy for a while there. I'm  better, now. :) However, I fully support Abrahadabra as an independent article. If you do too, please stop by here and lend your support. Thanks and apologies for my unintentional Borging. –Frater5 (talk/con) 04:50, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thelemic Colonization? 

message: I removed the following from the article:
 ===Father, Son, Holy Spirit===
"Some point to the Hebrew words  av ("father"),  ben ("son"), and ruakh hakodesh ("the holy spirit")"
The translations are correct, but I have a hard time seeing how the three from the word abracadabra. But I mainly removed the text because the Holy Trinity is not a Jewish concept at all, and therefore the word "abracadabra" could not have originated from the combination of these three Hebrew words. 
:While it could certainly be a Christian Concept, I agree with this sentiment. I simply do not see how  אב, בן, רוח הקדש form Abracadabra. Unless someone can cite a source for this statement, I second this removal.68.239.220.146 03:47, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That's not true, Dave.  There is a lengthy tradition of Jewish magic that goes back hundreds of years or further., especially with the creation of amulets, talismans, etc. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Infinitysnake (talk • contribs) 19:21, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't confuse Judaism (the religion) with the long culture of the Jewish people - not the same thing. There is no "magic" in Judaism; there is all sorts of folk mysticism in Hebrew culture just like any other nationality/ethnicity's. 50.111.59.83 (talk) 03:14, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
thread_title: Removed

message: This article says that Avra K'davarah is another spelling, but google shows only two references to this form, both of which are in the wikipedia (en and ja).  Is this spelling correct?  This alternate spelling was mentioned about three weeks ago, on August 1st. Wrs1864 15:37, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Avra K'davarah 

message: Just to note: the image to the right is available at Commons. I didn't see reason to replace the ASCII representation of the triangle with this image, but it may be useful in the future. --Oldak Quill 15:21, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image 

message: Corrected אבדא to עבדא - The aleph does not belong, nor do I think that there is such a word in aramaic.
Corrected it back in one place but not the other.
Aramaic עבד = do/make = Hebrew עשה
Aramaic אבד = lose/destroy = Hebrew אבד
Mahrabu 17:14, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: עבדא

message: There's only one single source, and it doesn't seem to support the supposition that abracadabra is derived from either Hebrew or Aramaic, which makes the majority of this article original research.--69.118.235.97 19:18, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: A very good point indeed, which endorses my reference to Genesis 15:17-18 (above) in relation to the 'tilted square' illustration. Those verses refer to Abraham opening up the dead bodies of three animals, before entering a trance-like state. It looks ever more likely that the word abracadabra was first coined by someone familiar with Spanish or Portuguese, and the Hebrew Genesis Seal that I described. Also, the Iberian peninsula was a hot-bed of Hebrew mysticism during the 12th and 13th centuries. Since this is a Talk page, I make no apology for offering original research, which may prove useful to someone.--DStanB (talk) 09:12, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: OR has no purpose on a Talk Page either, especially this sort of tripe. Keep your discussions on the use of Reliable Sources for the improvement of the article.50.111.59.83 (talk) 03:16, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

text: Spanish for cadaver is cadáver, with a stress on the accented "á". As far as I know, it is an abbreviation of the Latin expression CARNE DATA VERMES, flesh given to the worms. I cannot fathom how cadavara would derive from there... vara means rod in Spanish, so the meaning is quite distorted. --Wtrmute (talk) 00:54, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

text: I agree. Indeed it is all original research. Here's mine, for what it's worth, since 'The first known mention of the word was in the third century AD in a book called Liber Medicinalis"' (a 4th Century Latin text). "Ab raceda re" in Latin means, more or less, "swiftly remove that thing." ("Gettit outta here.") It's very possible that this is just a nonsense word that sounds really cool and trips off the tongue, as well. We may never know. Gee, this is fun. 173.174.85.204 (talk) 18:31, 25 November 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  This entire article is [[WP:OR|Original Research]]! 

message: If memory serves, aren't ancient languages (Latin, Hebrew, etc) written without vowels? Why would the inverted cone use them when conventional script did not?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.45.101.31 (talk) 21:52, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Semitic languages didn't/don't use vowels (most of the time); Latin does, however. It just depends on the language: you can generally write Semitic languages without vowels and understand them just fine, but that isn't the case with most Indo-European languages (like Latin). --334 (talk) 00:08, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Confusion over the inverted cone description 

message: Once I learned "dabaru" may mean "word", I thought that Abrahadabra may mean "The father of the word". Is there any chance that Abrahadabra may be the Name of the Lord?
77.46.185.53 (talk) 01:03, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Dabaru speculation 

message: it is mentioned in "The dictionary of Angels" by gustav davidson, in the apendix, that the sword of god is known by three names: albrot, jehova elico and abra cadabra, in a conjuration taken from Grimorium verum. though this adds no true historical value. at least it's a reference  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.92.117.233 (talk) 01:04, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  The Sword of God 

message: Here's a link that describes the significance of the nine days as well as the inverted triangular shape of the amulet. 
http://imahd.ca/2009/10/21/abracadabra/  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.248.136.14 (talk) 20:42, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recommended Reading 

message: At present, the article contains a longish section about a theory of "The late Amram Kehati", which is uncited except for links to some web pages of unknown provenance.  The section contains a number of statements of historical fact; for example "This was done to confuse the daemon or for various witchery reasons"; "the patient has to wear the amulet for nine days"; etc.  If Kehati is indeed an expert on the history here, then it should be possible to find some citation of his theories in a reliable source.  However, I was not able to find any mention of Kehati or of his theories in a Google Books or Google Scholar search or in a search of WorldCat.  So I removed the Kehati section from the article, as being most likely a fringe theory of no particular notability.
Shortly afterward the change was reverted, by User:Israelkk, who apparently is related to Amram Kehaty, and whose entire Wikipedia history has been devoted to keeping this theory in this article.  
If this is truly a notable and reliable theory, I would like to see it presented with proper citations and provenance.  If not, I would like to see it removed.  I have not been able to turn up any reliable sources for it.  If none is presented soon, I will remove it again.  I will notify Israelkk that I have opened discussion here. —Dominus (talk) 19:52, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: I will delete this tomorrow unless someone argues for some other action before then.  —Dominus (talk) 20:33, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

text: I did this. —Dominus (talk) 14:27, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Amram Kehati's theories 

message: I removed an uncited claim about a theory of "Ephraim Goodman, the world-renowned linguist", because I was not able to find any publications of this world renowned linguist or any mentions of this world renowned linguist.  I would be glad to be corrected on this matter.  —Dominus (talk) 14:27, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ephraim Goodman, the world-renowned linguist 

message: What about the possibility that the Hebrew "habarucha dabar" is the origin of the expression? Translated literally, it reads, "The blessing is a word."  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.93.134.107 (talk) 11:21, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  HaBarucha Dabar 

message: Copied from Christian Churches of God website:
http://www.ccg.org/english/s/p240.html
"ABRA has a supposed significance as it is composed of the first letters of the Hebrew words for: Father = Abba, and Spirit = Rauch Acadosh. However, J E Cirlot in A Dictionary of Symbols, Dorset, page 2, considers the whole word a Hebrew phrase.
Abracadabra: This word was in frequent use during the Middle Ages as a magic formula. It is derived from the Hebrew phrase abreq ad habra, meaning "hurl your thunderbolt even unto death". 
The earliest written record available of the word is in a second century poem Praecepta de Medicina by Serenus Sammonicus a celebrated Gnostic physician. He gave instructions for using the letters of this magical triangle which he used for curing agues and fevers. It was to be written on paper, folded into the shape of a cross, worn for nine days suspended from the neck and, before sunrise, cast behind the patient into a stream running eastward."
I make no claims as to the veracity of the above, but I'm wondering if anyone more qualified than me would care to comment on it.
Chilimac357 (talk) 20:38, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: At best, writing "Habreq" is a transliteration and offers no certainty concerning the original Hebrew word it is supposed to represent. For example, it could represent the word הברכ, meaning 'the blessing'. --DStanB (talk) 19:07, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Abreq ad Habra 

message: I noticed someone removed the poem, and I added it back.  As the article is not too very long and it seems to add more than it detracts, I feel it is better to have it than not, but would open for discussion if the event anyone disagrees.  Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 16:55, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Poem 

message: I am probably not wikipedia's greatest etymologist, or linguist, or polyglot... in fact I'm barely any of these things. I am, however, extraordinarily well-read. And the most reliable sources I have encountered seem to indicate 2 most likely sources:
1 -- "abbada ke dabra" is supposedly CHALDEAN (not Arabic) for "perish like the word"
2 -- "avra kehdabra"  is supposedly ARAMAIC (not hebrew) for "I will create as I speak."
I have seen both of these cited, in various sources, as the origin of the word. I tend to lean toward the "Aramaic" version (assuming that is, in fact, proper Aramaic). Aside from the fact that the phrase "I will create as I speak," is very evocative of a magical act, and even indicative of a magical word, it seems to phonetically fit.  When anglicized/romanized, it is not much of a stretch to go from "avra kehdabra" to "abracadabra."  The difference here is really v - to - b. (I have seen a number of words transliterated from semitic language where v and b are transposed.)
Whereas, I suspect the "perish like the word," theory comes from analysis of Sammonicus' Liber Medicinalis, where the word was said to be used on an amulet, worn by those suffering malaria. Viewed IN THIS CONTEXT, "perish like the word," makes sense as a definition, as is clear by the form of the word on the amulet:
                                A - B - R - A - C - A - D - A - B - R - A
                                  A - B - R - A - C - A - D - A - B - R
                                    A - B - R - A - C - A - D - A - B
                                      A - B - R - A - C - A - D - A
                                        A - B - R - A - C - A - D
                                          A - B - R - A - C - A
                                            A - B - R - A - C
                                              A - B - R - A
                                                A - B - R
                                                  A - B
                                                    A
However, used in any other context / way, this etymological definition does not seem to make sense. And to my knowledge, this word was used in ways / contexts other than the triangular amulet.
"wiki answers" actually has a (much better) page describing the possible origins of this word:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_meaning_of_abracadabra_in_Hebrew  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.34.63.39 (talk) 22:36, 2 November 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes I, too, have seen the "I will create as I speak." interpretation. What lends credibility to this is the underlying rationale of the biblical creation account, in which God's utterances "Let there be…" give rise to real results: And there was…. --DStanB (talk) 19:17, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origins -- Why all the Confusion? 

message: Should the song by Elena Siegman and Kevin Sherwood titled Abracadavre (combination of "abra kadabra" and "cadavre") be mentioned in the popular culture section?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.208.68.137 (talk) 14:47, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Abracadavre? 

message: Q. Serenus Sammonicus calls the disease "hemitritaeus", which is explained by both the Oxford Latin Dictionary and Liddle&Scott Greek-English Lexocon as "semitertian fever". Is this really the same disease as malaria? WSJ is quite a scientific source, btw. ... -212.87.13.78 (talk) 22:32, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Malaria? 

message: Many consider that the word “Abracadabra” is actually a Hebrew phrase meaning “I create (A’bra) what (ca) I speak (dab’ra).”
I don't know if it's from some kind of ancient Hebrew form, but it sure isn't from the modern Hebrew, so in my opinion there is a need to clear it out. Thank you and good day :)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.179.255.105 (talk) 16:46, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: This is a variation on something I added higher up, substantiated with a diagram of the early Hebrew words of Genesis in the form of a tilted square.--DStanB (talk) 08:50, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:   “Abracadabra” is actually a Hebrew phrase meaning “I create (A’bra) what (ca) I speak (dab’ra).” 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: In the "Etymology" section, the article states "Abracadabra is of unknown origin, and its first occurrence is in the second century works of Serenus Sammonicus, according to the Oxford English Dictionary", in the following "History" section it says "the first known mention of the word was in the third century AD in a book called Liber Medicinalis (sometimes known as De Medicina Praecepta Saluberrima) by Serenus Sammonicus...". Both sentences are cited, but to offline works so I cannot check which is correct. The article Serenus Sammonicus states he died in 212, and so he lived in both the second and third centuries meaning both dates are plausible. Thryduulf (talk) 23:39, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  self-contradiction 

message: Genesis 1:1
Bereshet bara Elohim. 
In the beginning created God
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/genesis/1.htm
Bereshet meaning "proceeding from" 
Bara meaning "power" 
Elohim, or Alakazam, meaning "God"
Proceeding the power of Elohim. 
Bereshet bara Elohim
Abrakad Abra Alakazam Church of Britain (talk) 14:30, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Origin 

message: The claim that the word is of Hebrew origin is cited to a book by Lawrence Kushner. However, Kushner writes that the word is of Aramaic origin. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 02:07, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: A possible source for improving the article. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 02:37, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hebrew origin and [[Lawrence Kushner]]