Talk:Double-barrelled name

message: ===Particularly associated?===
:They are particularly associated with English-speaking countries.
Is this true? They certainly aren't exclusive to English-speaking countries, but are they even particularly associated with English-speaking countries? What countries do not have double-barrelled names, for example? —Gabbe 10:40, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)
===Feminism?===
I know many families who in recent years have adopted double-barrelled names from a concern with feminist issues. Would a paragraph on this usage be out of place? Philthecow 03:50, Mar 29, 2005 (UTC)
:No, madam, I do not think that it would be, but it should not be overly emphasised. --Anglius 03:52, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not a long term solution though: when we're all double-barrelled then the only way to give equal weight will be to go quadruple barrelled and so on!! 86.140.136.88 (talk) 20:12, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

text: Sir, (as for the aristocratic surnames) if both of the original surnames that one of them is comprised of begin with de,  does the double-barrelled surname have both them(e.g. de Gaulle-de Noialles)? --Anglius 03:52, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Associated circumstances

message: I know many families who in recent years have adopted double-barrelled names from a concern with feminist issues. Would a paragraph on this usage be out of place? Philthecow 03:50, Mar 29, 2005 (UTC)
:No, madam, I do not think that it would be, but it should not be overly emphasised. --Anglius 03:52, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not a long term solution though: when we're all double-barrelled then the only way to give equal weight will be to go quadruple barrelled and so on!! 86.140.136.88 (talk) 20:12, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Feminism?

message: Apparently arbritrary double-barrelled names have been legalised in France recently.  The practice is to use a double-hyphen "--" , (not just a long hyphen!!), to distinguish from the historic double-barrelled names that were already in use. !   Morwen - Talk 11:35, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Sir, (as for the aristocratic surnames) if both of the original surnames that one of them is comprised of begin with de,  does the double-barrelled surname have both them(e.g. de Gaulle-de Noialles)? --Anglius 03:52, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: In French

message: Article says:
Notable persons with unhyphenated double-barrelled names include two former British Prime Ministers, David Lloyd George and Andrew Bonar Law, and the composer Ralph Vaughan Williams.
Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill should be included!
He is an agnatic Spencer, with Churchill added after a Spencer
married the daughter of heirless Duke of Marlborough.
--jamesdowallen at gmail
:Well not really as for Winston's branch of the family (starting with his father) the given surname was just "Churchill". "Spencer Churchill" has appeared on some books but this was mainly Winston the Brit wishing to distinguish himself from "Winston Churchill the American". Really the person should be widely known by the double-barrelled name to be mentioned.
:And was "Bonar Law" a double barrelled surname or not? His son, a middle ranking politician in later decades, appears to have always been called "Richard Law". Timrollpickering 15:58, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Forename Bonar, surname Law. DuncanHill (talk) 15:46, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: Should David Lloyd George be included? I have seen his birth certificate and can confirm his surname was George, with David and Lloyd as given names. I can provide phootographic proof - LR, May 2021 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.144.88.5 (talk) 20:03, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: He used and was known by the surname Lloyd George - hence his partnership with his brother being "Lloyd George & George". DuncanHill (talk) 20:14, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

text: I have the impression the answer is yes, but i am unsure whether i am just thinking of Per Brinch Hansen (a Dane whom i had confused in my mind with the Dutchman Edsgar Dijkstra), or whether i had noticed a real Dutch example, which i put together with PBH making (supposedly) two Dutch examples.--Jerzy•t 14:45, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

text: When this query bears fruit, don't say "Holland", which is a region of the Netherlands.--Jerzy•t 16:42, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Notables

message: Gentlemen, other than the Dutch Royal Family's surname, are there Dutch double-barrelled surnames that are hyphenated?--Anglius 21:06, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I have the impression the answer is yes, but i am unsure whether i am just thinking of Per Brinch Hansen (a Dane whom i had confused in my mind with the Dutchman Edsgar Dijkstra), or whether i had noticed a real Dutch example, which i put together with PBH making (supposedly) two Dutch examples.--Jerzy•t 14:45, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

text: When this query bears fruit, don't say "Holland", which is a region of the Netherlands.--Jerzy•t 16:42, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: In Holland

message: Are there any extremely long surnames anywhere in the world (for instance, van Oranje-Nassau-Holstein-Gottorp-Romanov en Mecklenburg-Schwerin aan Lippe-Biesterfeild van Pruisen)?--Anglius 04:31, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Holstein-Gottorp, Mecklenburg-Schwerin, Lippe-Biesterfeld, etc, are properly territorial designations. The others are house names. As for surnames, I have only encountered up to triple-barrelled surnames, although there are names created for the sake of length. Charles 21:50, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

text: I thank you, sir, but I added (and attempted to Dutchify) those house-names and designations together to bestow an example.--Anglius 00:19, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Going to Extremes 

message: _ _ While i said "double-barrelled name" is immediately understandable (at least to me and some others), the article's examples do not cover the Spanish- and Portuguese-speaking convention that is part of the natural understanding of the term. I describe this convention as a single-generation-long version, where in every generation 
* the children have the first half of their  father's d-b'd surname, followed by first half of their maternal grandfather's d-b'd surname, but 
* the husband's surname is not affected by marriage, and 
*(i assume) the wife either takes the husband's full surname or retains her own.
_ _ I also doubt the distinction is adequately made  between these forms and the other forms of what i call (in LoPbN hdgs) a compound surname: multi-word surnames where some words (usually all but one) are prepositions, articles, or a few other modifying words including St. or Saint (in English) (and perhaps Mt., Mount, or Mont, as Montcalm, Mountbatten,  and Montjoy hint at).--Jerzy•t 16:42, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The article on surnames suggests that names with affixes (de la Mare, von Braun, Mac Millan, Fitz William, St. John) are usually not considered true compound names, but rather single surnames that are made up of more than one word. --ABehrens (talk) 00:23, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Scope of the term 

message: Well, the page is already flagged not citing sources, and that truth is rife. But I'm here to comment on a few instaces where I'm certain the infrmation is wrong. Sasha Baron Cohen isn't a Double Barrelled name, as far as I'm aware. I'm of the understanding his middle name is Baron, and I can't be certain, but i believe others included where it states "non-hyphenated names" are also middle names or pseudonyms, in which case, a pseudonym is either and alias or a language differentiated name. If the title is simply different due to a language barrier, then it may well be considered double barrel (unless, of course, it's an Eastern name, in hich case the matter may vary). The context does howwever differ if the name is a fictitious alias or a "user elected" alias, whereby a name was added as a result of simple personal prefererence. In these cases, the person may still be considered double barrelled, however it is to that person's own discretion and not to the discretion of people deliberating on the Internet.
In short, I think Cohen should be removed along with anyone else whose names are not accurately described as being "Double Barrelled".
--lincalinca 12:05, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: You need to read the WP bio, and if you don't trust your colleagues who wrote it, the second 'graph of one of its refs.--Jerzy•t 02:07, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources and accuracy of data 

message: While it certainly is expressly forbidden in Quebec to change your name when you get married, is it really French Canadian custom? That is, was it customary before the law enforced it? (It's a fairly recent change in the law.) Or is that sentence merely meant to imply that people are honoring the spirit of the law by using their legal names rather than "married names" which have no legal standing?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.206.92.211 (talk) 03:47, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Until the early 70's, women almost always took their husband's name when they married. Then, at first, it was common for women to add their husband's name to their maiden name, hyphenated or not. Later the continued use of the maiden name alone after marriage was more and more common, until in 1981 it was made mandatory by a change in the civil code. It was a pretty drastic change, mostly influenced by feminism I would say, but it was well accepted and is now considered natural. However, because in the public services, all women (after 1981) were identified by their maiden name, it led to some culture shock. I remember my grandmother, when she was hospitalized in the 80's, saying: "I have been Mrs. (Husband's name) for 56 years, I don't know who they're talking about when they call me Mrs. (Maiden name)". Cortomaltais (talk) 21:49, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  French-Canadian custom 

message: What we really need is such a list.  This would be a very handy resource for people curious about whether David Lloyd George's surname was "Lloyd George" or simply "George", and loads of other examples.  They would also discover things previously unsuspected.  For example, if they always catalogued Gabriel García Márquez under M for "Márquez", they'd discover it needs to go under the Gs and not the Ms.  Same for Federico Moreno Torroba, which good music dictionaries are finally starting to catalogue under "Morena Torroba" and not just "Torroba".  And so on. It would be quite a long list, but not unmanageable.  --  JackofOz (talk) 21:04, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That's true, but in Latin America and Spain my understanding is that unhyphenated double-barrelled surnames are the custom, so maybe that should be highlighted. Ricardiana (talk) 21:27, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: List of notable people with unhyphenated double-barrel surnames

message: I've checked the article and I can't see anything about this, but forgive me if it's already covered here or elsewhere.  Today I saw what appeared to be a double-barrelled name whose two parts had simply been run together without space or hyphen but retaining the original capitalisation (this was on the BBC's Magazine website: ); so you get a structure like 'Elias SmithJones'.  (I didn't want to replicate the real name here.)
Now I appreciate this may have been a mistype of some sort, except that I do recall seeing this once before, some years ago.  It certainly doesn't seem a common formation, but I wondered if anyone had any knowledge of how and when it's used?  I thought it might be worth mentioning in this article if so.  - Laterensis (talk) 13:05, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merged Names? 

message: This article concerns Hyphenated family names. I wondered if anyone knows anything about  hyphenated given names. I had a (Dutch) friend called Jan-Willem. Is this common or just an anomaly? Rajawali 22:11, 01 June 2010  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rajawali (talk • contribs)  
: It's very common in some countries, and very uncommon in some others. —Tamfang (talk) 09:37, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hyphenated Given names? 

message: This article has been  severely  lacking  in  in  references for a very  long time, to  the extent that  much  of it  can  be considered conjecture. An article of this kind especially  needs accurate sourcing, without  which it  has little or no  encyclopedic value. Unsourced material  can be deleted; to  do  so  would reduce the page to  a stub.--Kudpung (talk) 18:51, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: The term double-barrelled still has a whiff of mockery about it, and it seems to me that the second word adds nothing to comprehension; furthermore, as someone backhandedly observed, it fails to convey that we're not talking about Jean-Claude.  Why not double(d) surname, or, where context is unambiguous, double(d) name? —Tamfang (talk) 09:41, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Be that as it may that is the term commonly used for such names. We shouldn't go inventing alternatives. Timrollpickering (talk) 13:27, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Speaking of terms commonly used, here in the rebellious colonies we call them "hyphenated surnames", with the advantage of transparency. —Tamfang (talk) 13:52, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: What do you call them when they aren't hyphenated, like Lloyd George? DuncanHill (talk) 23:58, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Nonexistent. —Tamfang (talk) 23:37, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

text: Today I prefer compound to double(d).  Who knows what I'll think tomorrow! —Tamfang (talk) 23:54, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

text: No response in two years. Oh well. —Tamfang (talk) 09:31, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  barrel barrel barrel 

message: I don't think that the reason for changing names is inequality among nobility. Rather it happens when a nobleman marries an heiress. examples: Hapsburg-Lorraine, Douglas-Hamilton, and Bowes-Lyon. A nobleman may also add a surname when he is the heir to another title. Sometimes it is a legal requirement for inheritance, especially in Scotland. Tinynanorobots (talk) 04:06, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  noble name change 

message: I edited the section for Canada and especially Quebec to correct a few facts. First, I would put in the 70's rather than the 60's the beginning of the custom of double surnames. This is mostly out of personal observation. Also, I replaced "common" with "not rare", as the proportion of double surnames has never been higher than 22% according to this newspaper article: , and is in decline since the historic high of 1992. Cortomaltais (talk) 16:52, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Family names in Quebec 

message: Is there some reason other than communal sloth that the section Practices by country is not broken into subheads, and perhaps alphabetized?  I note that in at least a couple of places editors have attempted to make the text flow, (e.g., "Doubling of surnames is also practiced by the Dutch,") but on the whole I think the number of different national entries (currently in eleven paragraphs) militates towards a more conventional scheme of listing. Can I find a smidgen of consensus before I get too bold and subsequently discover my effort is vaporized in a rash of reverts? --Eliyahu S Talk 17:31, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Subheads? 

message: Perhaps 10-14 days ago, I wrote a stub article, Double surname, and then stumbled across this article with the same topic.  I "forked", I guess it's called.  So now I've added my new content to this article instead, and will void the other article.  If I could choose, I'd choose to have my stub article's complete Talk page brought here somehow, but I don't want to know how to do that.  Trying to help WP and especially our readers,   For7thGen (talk) 22:25, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adding 2 more types of double surname 

message: (Discussion moved from Talk:Double surname)
Double-barrelled name already exists.  While I strongly prefer the title Double surname, consensus (or at least inertia) is against me; so this ought to be a redirect, not a separate article (WP:Content forking). —Tamfang (talk) 20:38, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text:  One can't assume that the top of an article was written before the bottom, or that inconsistencies are due to anything but different hands.  Ten out of twelve instances of double surname over there are mine. —Tamfang (talk) 05:37, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

text: I'm very glad to see that much of the editing over there, thanks to your making it so easy for me, and glad to see that your editing has "stuck" at least from Feb2011 until now.  I'll feel free to go ahead and rectify my accidentally creating this new article (as outlined above), as soon as I possibly can, maybe by the end of this weekend.  I'll leave this new article empty, as a signal to others to delete it and whatever else needs to be done. Good luck to us all,   For7thGen (talk) 17:33, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  unfork 

message: With regards to the section titled "Formation" of double barrelled surnames, it appears that Wiki has missed out the formation of a double barrelled surname through a married woman becoming a widow and then later in life remarrying. As in the case of Jackie Kennedy Onassis. 
This is by far the most usual case for double barrelling in recent generations but has now been superseded by those double barrelling their surname by any means they see fit. Detailed very well in the rest of the "Formation" section on Wiki.
As a double barrel myself acquired exactly as I've previously stated, my mother was widowed and remarried later in life.
The use of the hyphen in this case appears to be optional, however in my case I do have a hyphen and have found that in 40 years this is most helpful for others understanding double barrelled surnames and denoting that the two names were from separate marriages.
Michael Wilson-Roberts  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.24.169.167 (talk) 11:01, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Woman marries, widowed, later remarries.... 

message: I assume it is a known phenomenon that in England and Wales some double-barrelled surnames are much more common than their inverses, for example: Lloyd-Wright appears much more common than Wright-Lloyd (whether hyphenated or not). Further, it appears to be more common that the first of these names is single-syllabic whereas the second is more frequently multi-syllabic, and for the first (at least) being surprisingly often of Welsh origin (Lloyd in the above example was originally Llwyd). 
The obvious explanations such as the wife’s surname becoming attached as the first of the names, or one name being more intrinsically common than the other, or one name being ‘posher’ than the other seem not to apply.
Staying with the example of Lloyd, I can think of numerous double-barrels: some illustrious such as Lloyd-Mostyn (both Welsh) and Lloyd-Baker (second is a trade name); some well-known such as Lloyd Wright; and some just ‘ordinary’ such as Lloyd-Hughes (both Welsh) and Lloyd-Jones (both Welsh). But Mostyn-Lloyd, Baker-Lloyd etc are very unusual.
DAK why?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Actaeon (talk • contribs) 19:06, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Names more common than their inverses 

message: What are the customs (if any) when one or both parents has a double-barrelled name? The simple thing would be to give the children the father's double-barrelled surname, but what if the wife doesn't want to? What are the alternatives to this? What about same-sex partners with children, where one or both parents have a double-barrelled name?
If anyone can source any customs, please add them to the article. Thanks, cagliost (talk) 11:37, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Children of parents with double-barrelled surnames

message: When the context is "Anglo-Saxon", especially British, "double-barreled" is used to refer to the "pretentious" semi-aristocratic names. In fact the term "double-barreled" appears to have originated in the Victorian-era as a mildly sarcastic reference to the perceived snobbery of such names.
But it seems that now "double-barreled" is used very freely of any double surname (German, Spanish, Danish). 
This may call for disambiguation, and the "British" section could be built into a separate treatment of the specifically British tradition of "snobbish" double surnames "such as Huntington-Whiteley and Taylor-Johnson" (the Taylor-Johnson example seems like an excellent example illustrating the snobbery of the hyphen itself,  as it isn't immediately clear how hyphenating two commoners' names is supposed to make you look more aristocratic, and yet it apperently does). --dab (𒁳) 11:30, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
replies: text: Four years later, but I'm not sure you realise how common having a double-barrelled surname is in the UK. I know a Smith-Smith. It's a quirk, but it's normal. Kingsif (talk) 04:17, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Terminology

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: When referring to a spouse of a barrel-named person who has taken the partner's name, what is the proper surname form? What should the wife of Sir Somebody Someone be named: Mrs Someone or Mrs Somebody Someone? Does it differ between the Somebody Someone family and the Somebody-Someone (hyphenated barrel) family? Does it change with titled persons (Lady Someone v Lady Somebody-Someone)? To avoid flames for being a chauvinist or depersonalising spouses of one gender or another, I am most interested in historical persons where the spouse's given name may be disputed or even unknown. Last1in (talk) 19:27, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: It's pretty much up to the woman what surname she uses after marriage (in England at least). Traditionally the wide of Sir Somebody Someone would be Lady Somebody Someone, and they would be introduced at the ball as "Sir Hildebrand and Lady Somebody Someone". DuncanHill (talk) 12:09, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
replies: text: That would be the wife of Sir Foo Somebody Someone! Given "Sir" comes before the given name, not the surname (as per the example). -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:23, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Spousal Names (Mrs...?) 

message: I've edited the paragraph that claims
Captain Leone Sextus Denys Oswolf Fraudatifilius Tollemache-Tollemache de Orellana Plantagenet Tollemache-Tollemache is sometimes quoted — incorrectly — as the man with the most ever "barrels" in his surname (supposedly six; four of which are middle names).
to remove the "incorrectly" this claim has been added to the page previously with no citation for the "well actually".
 claims a citation for six barrels in surname in the 1997 Guinness Book of Records - I'll see if I can locate a copy to check.  
Is there any notable source anywhere that states he only had 2 barrels in his surname.  All I can find is wikipedia, reddit and blogs, probably getting their info from wikipedia.
Newystats (talk) 05:16, 1 April 2021 (UTC)
replies: text:  The registry office is definitive. His surname was Tollemache-Tollemache. The others are forenames.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.13.205.167 (talk) 09:20, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Leone Sextus Denys Oswolf Fraudatifilius Tollemache-Tollemache de Orellana Plantagenet Tollemache-Tollemache 

message: Please add a translation for the paragraph in Russian, to help understand it. I, and supposedly many others, cannot read and understand Russian.Redav (talk) 22:25, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Please supply translation for paragraph in Russian 

message: A common historic use of double barrelled names was for out of wedlock children. Usually the mother's name came first as she was looking after the child and the father who was of higher economic status was recognized with his last name. This often provided economic support to the child who was recognized by the local community as a responsibility of the father.
This usage is common across the Caribbean and possibly the southern USA.
My own great grandfather in England used a hyphenated last name to claim relationship with his father, who was a famous landscape painter. This connection with the arts came in useful when he started a photography studio. He eventually dropped his mother's name to make the connection stronger. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Baker_(artist)
It should be noted that this usage is not in the main article. Is this due to embarrassment?— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1970:5164:3d00:900f:f11:2af7:529 (talk) 14:46, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Out of Wedlock