Talk:Soil salinity control

message: As of 11 June 2007, this page is currently too biased. There is never any mention of ideals. 
There is no mention of the different types of salt and the effects of their proportions.
Animals and plants contain salt and that is not a problem. There must be a reason for that.
Here is a suggestion: certainly find out what the ideal proportion of potassium to sodium is and is not. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mcampbell422 (talk • contribs).
That's a great idea! Unfortunately, adding lots of zohar "ideals" to a page that appears to be talking about evidence-based issues is merely muddying (sorry:) the issues here. I look forward to reading whatever people can find in the way of cited research about these issues. DMacks 05:38, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: 11 June 2007

message: From R.J.Oosterbaan 10:58, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It appears you're talking about a somewhat unrelated concept that has the same name. Wikipedia is fine with that, but if we really have two different concepts, then let's have two different pages instead of trying to mix unrelated ideas or determine which is the "right" meaning of this fairly generic-sounding term. How about starting a Salinity control (physiology) article for it. DMacks 18:41, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

text: I know that I just added those tags:) Mcampbell422, until you provide a verifiable reliable source that supports your assertions of some ideal ratio of salts, it's WP:OR and not appropriate to have in Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not for writing your original ideas. DMacks 00:56, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: 12 June 2007

message: Rather than continue this revert war, constant change of page focus, and addition of uncited material, I have filed an RFC to bring in some outside opinions. DMacks 04:27, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I have withdrawn the RFC for now. I see consensus that the material does not belong, and an admin has warned User talk:Mcampbell422 against re-adding it without cites. DMacks 07:11, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request for comments 

message: Quote: "The prime cause of salinization is the fact that irrigation water brought in from the rivers contains salts."
The above statement says that the primary cause of the problem is the presence of salts. That statement apprently applies to all salts in all proportions. However, this statement is apparently a claim of original research since, to my knowledge, not any of the effects of the different proportions of the different salts have been studied before now. If one says "[...] the presence of sodium chloride" then that is also apparently a statement of original research. That statement, when taken only by itself, implies that only the presence of sodium chloride is what causes the problem. Please admit what most of the literature is slient about - proportions. If those effects have been studied before, then I strongly suggest giving mention to them. Also, to my knowledge, nowhere does any literature exactly define the phrase "Salinity Control". Making this phrase refer to something where before now it has not, is a new interpretation and is thus correctly called original research. If one says that "Salinity control" is defined as something like "the physical control, management, and use of water and related land resources in such a way as to maintain or reduce salt loading and concentrations of salt in water supplies" as per "Nevada's Water Dictionary" then one must necessarily say that the term "salt" used in that definition is necessarily ambiguous because Merrium Webster defines the word "salt" as "any of various compounds that result from replacement of part or all of the acid hydrogen of an acid by a metal or a group acting like a metal : an ionic crystalline compound".
However, realizing that the phrase "salinity control", if it is not exactly defined before now, and is a general phrase, applying to all types of "Salinity Control", then the use of it in a general fashion is correctly done and is not correctly considered original research.
Additionally, although after the title the article specifies what is apparently meant by the title "Salinity control" the title itself may be so general as to apply to all types of Salinity Control. Unless one carefully includes reference to the unified field aspect of the subfield (or, in other words, show the universality of the subfield), to give just a single subfield the name of a unified field is ncessarily bias. I strongly suggest renaming the article to something like "Soil Salinity Control" or including within the article reference to the universality of Salinity Control. For example, a reference given can be the prevention of hypokalmia and/or hypertension by the giving of one or more salts of potassium.
Thanks. Mcampbell422 00:21, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Originality and/or Bias

message: I'm very sorry about (very unintentionally) giving you a such hard time. I do not plan to add the tags ever again. I read the FAO document and the document at http://www.waterlog.info/pdf/chacupe.pdf and they do not ever appear to mention any proportions between the potassium salts and the sodium salts of the ground or irrigation water. The FAO article throughout, with only and maybe a couple of exceptions, implies that salt in relation to agriculture is always one or more salts of sodium. That certainly isn't true; what is fertilizer? Potassium chloride. Phosphate. Nitrate. No sodium there. Necessarily these salts also can accumulate in ground water also. Even so, it would be necessary to mention that not salt itself, but rather the balance within salt is necessary to control; potassium, for example, has a way of counteracting the damaging effects of what is otherwise too much sodium. Nowhere does that appear to ever be addressed in the documents. Sincerely - Mcampbell422 11:02, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: This sounds like at heart it's a terminology question, where the term "salt" generally means "NaCl" unless one is explicitly talking in the scientific "ionic compound" sense. The salt page fought over that exact issue a month or two ago. Likewise, "salinity" implies the NaCl sense of salt. Actually, I've never heard "salinity" refer to any other kind of salt even in scientific circles...would seem to be a linguistic-based argument ("salt can be other than NaCl, so salinity must mean that too") not in its actual technical meaning. DMacks 15:43, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes; of course it's a terminology question. You say that "salt" has a general meaning. True - however, every generalization *necessarily* comes with an exception. Those exceptions should always be sufficiently emphasized. A good word to use for something that is always true or at least never false is "universal". Encylopedic terms should not just be kept as general as possible, but as universal as possible. When that doesn't happen, people can get confused about meanings. Sincerely - Mcampbell422 16:26, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Proportions within salt itself

message: The section on Saltmod reads like the manual for a computer program. Aside from possible copyright issues, I don't think it's appropriate for an encyclopedia article. -- Hongooi 07:16, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Saltmod section 

message: Came across the article today because I was looking to find whether gypsum has a role in controlling soil salinity. Interesting article, however I suggest it needs some work to bring it into line with wikipedia standards and I've done some editing. I'm going to tag the article as requiring work to improve its tone to attract the attention of other editors who can help.
I can see user R.J.Oosterbaan is an expert on this topic and wikipedia welcomes scientists who are prepared to provide their knowledge. That said I would urge some caution when editors working on wikipedia cite their own research. Wikipedia has quite a few conflict of interest policies on this issue. I can provide more information about these if it is required. Cheers Saganaki- 02:14, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The references were added. By the way, there are gypsiferous soils (not much about them in Wiki, I might do something about that). They form a separate category and have their specific problems. Gypsum, so far, has played no role in the study and reclamation of saline soils, but it is used as an amendment in alkali soils. R.J.Oosterbaan 19:25, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  Perhaps it would be worth making Saltmod into an article of its own, as was done with the other model. I think the salinity article itself will grow to be pretty big. Also, having saltmod separate would prevent anyone jumping to the incorrect conclusion that the salinity control article is a vehicle for promoting saltmod. (Currently the salinity article has c1,500 words on salinity control and 2,800 on saltmod). I think it would be fairly simple to do so please go ahead and make saltmod into a separate article if you think this sounds like a good idea. On another tack, mind if I ask whether there are any estimates of how economically valuable ahydrogenous gypmsum is as a soil remediation agent? This kind of gypsum seems to be produced by some coal fired power plants. Cheers Saganaki- 00:06, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The manual-like part has been removed. A separate article will be made. When Hongooi and Saganaki are satisfied, the "tone tag" could perhaps be removed. R.J.Oosterbaan 08:33, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text:  After a spell of radio silence and a further cutback in Saltmod references I assumed that removal of the "tone" tag would not be objected. Instead an "expand" tag was included. R.J.Oosterbaan 22:34, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

text: By the way, Saganaki, I remember that (ahydrogenous) gypsum has been used as a soil amendment in European forests to mitigate the effects of acid rain. I do not know the details of economic value. R.J.Oosterbaan 09:14, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Article tone

message: I think very few wikipedia users who enter the term "salinity control" are actually looking for osmoregulation, so I've removed the redirection link "For salt balance in animals, see osmoregulation.".  A ["salinity+control"+osmoregulation web search] brings up only 345 hits, many of which are mishits with "control" referring to a control group, or to this article.  Pro crast in a tor (talk) 19:18, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Osmoregulation link

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thread_title:  External links modified (January 2018) 

message: I am not an expert on soil salinity and therefore have not edited anything on the page. However, I noticed that under "The soil salinity problem" section, the impact of climate change (both in the form of rising sea levels and of greater evaporation in drier climates) on increasing the rate of soil salinization is not mentioned. Can someone please fix this omission?
Here are some resources that could be used:
* https://news.osu.edu/climate-change-is-making-soils-saltier-forcing-many-farmers-to-find-new-livelihoods/
* https://www.npr.org/2023/02/20/1136548854/climate-environment-migration-sengal-spain-africa-europe
* https://ensia.com/features/salinization-salt-threatens-soil-crops-ecosystems/
Thank you! 2600:4040:2AA5:BC00:2CC1:A75E:29E9:BD76 (talk) 04:27, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Climate Change