Talk:Comparison of version-control software

message: I was bold and included info about Rational Team Concert, which was sorely missing, in the mix. While doing so, I was plagued by a minor annoyance: is the so-called "Concurrency model" column really necessary anymore, if it ever was? Other than RCS, SCCS and mainframe-based version control tools (which are also missing from the list), I can't think of any
modern version control tool that still uses a "lock" model. Can we please get rid of a useless classification?
afc (talk) 18:16, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Modest proposal 

message: I believe that the notable users column is a bit biased towards commercial software packages, since many/most open soruce projects do not have the resources to go around getting people to sign rights to allow them to list the names of their users companies.  The editor coming along an listing all these as not suitable is just innapropriate.  Everyone reading this page knows that pretty much any large organisation will have a mix of CVS, CVSNT and SVN in use somewhere in the organisation.
Arthur 07:14, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Notable users is biased 

message: : I know a bit about ClearCase.  It seems to be the VCS that is used at many large corporations (HP, for example, uses it globally.  IBM probably uses it in places too.  Also, I know of several medium to large defense contractors that use ClearCase).  I'll list the info that I know — I don't know several of the fields so I figure I'll post the info here rather than leave lots of question marks in the article.
* General Information
** Maintained by IBM.  Not sure if it is actively developed or just maintained.
::ClearCase is indeed actively developed, as can be seen by a quick glance at
http://www-01.ibm.com/software/awdtools/clearcase/support/index.html
afc (talk) 18:46, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This seems incorrect in the list -- ClearCase is not distributed -- you can't access version history off-line.  All you can do is hijack files and merge back when on-line.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.178.20.107 (talk) 23:25, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Indeed -- fixed. --Drizzd (talk) 09:25, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

text:  This is debatable, see observations below. afc (talk) 18:46, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

text:  ClearCase triggers (or rather, trigger actions) can be written in any kind of language, scripted or compiled. You can even run a different program or script depending on whether the trigger is fired from UN*X or from Windows. afc (talk) 18:46, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

text:  This is a feature available when you use it with ClearQuest for change tracking. afc (talk) 18:46, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

text:  A "file" in a dynamic view is only copied across the network when it is checked-out. Also, the copy may be to a view server, rather than the "local" machine. afc (talk) 18:46, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

text:  As of version 6.15 (current is 7.0.1), ClearCase has an Eclipse-based, HTTP talking client too. afc (talk) 18:46, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

text:  There is a TSO (MVS, z/OS) based client available, though server processes must run on UN*X or Windows. afc (talk) 18:46, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

text:  Transactions are RPC-based, rather than "proprietary", and this is what makes it unsuitable over a WAN. afc (talk) 18:46, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

text:  I hate to be picky, but in CC, mastership and ownership are two different concepts. Mastership, as you point out, relates to the site owning the rights to modify an object. Ownership relates to the user who created that object. afc (talk) 18:46, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  ClearCase 

message: ClearCase definitely cannot do this (allow changes to a group of files to be applied in one transaction).  There is an extension called "ClearCase UCM" (with additional license cost) which supposedly provides this functionality, though the details are not clear.
Mister Farkas 23:39, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Atomic Commits in ClearCase ? 

message: Was Continuus/CM. It should be added to this article. It's a player in this market, even though many people dislike it. This product introduced task development, if I understand correctly. Unfortunately, I don't know enough about SYNERGY to edit the article. Cernansky 00:15, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Telelogic SYNERGY 

message: Yes, it is not the industry leader.  But to ignore it is just silly Thoglette 07:13, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Symbolic links aren't the same as a shared file (particularly in the sense that shared files apply only to sharing between projects). TEDickey (talk) 21:20, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  VSS 

message: The table has subversion listed as using snapshots for the history model. That's a common misconception; while svn presents the history to the user as a list of snapshots, the change is actually stored internally as a changeset. If a repository uses the fsfs backend, you can see the individual changesets in db/revs/nnn.
: OK. I'm not sure whether that column represents a useful distinction. I was trying to show that systems can use very different ways of storing revisions internally. But to be honest, I'm not sure understand each system well enough to come up with an accurate comparison in this area. Maybe I should just remove that column. Wmahan. 05:27, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Snapshots vs. Changesets 

message: This comes up as well with CVS, which implements its history as a cascade of reverse patches from the most recent version of each file.  That's changesets, arguably, though it's on a per-file basis rather than on a per-commit basis.  I would imagine that the facility of the software for dealing and distributing changesets is more important than the storage architecture inside the repository implementation, though.
I went ahead and changed the CVS column to 'Changeset', but I agree that the column is perhaps not useful or helpful. Jonabbey (talk) 17:35, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  CVS and Snapshots / Changesets 

message: There is no column specifying which products send email on various actions.
I believe this is a good evaluation decider, and should be included.
To start off, I know that :
CVSNT : Yes
SourceSafe : No —Preceding unsigned comment added by IanVaughan (talk • contribs) 
IMHO, whether the VCS directly supports email notification is not very important - if it supports triggers, emails can be sent using those. Bullestock 20:44, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  email notification 

message: I propose to add a column indicating whether the VCS supports access control lists. I know that CVSNT does, and CVS doesn't - no doubt most of the commercial big players do as well. Bullestock 20:44, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: CVS "admin" (and RCS of course) have at least per-file lists of users who are allowed to modify a file.  I've been using the feature for quite a while Tedickey 20:51, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ACL's 

message: Why is BitKeeper not represented in this comparison?
Billdav 02:07, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Because nobody has added it yet, of course. You are welcome to do so if you are familiar with it. -- intgr 11:22, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  BitKeeper 

message: You always lock the file in Perforce; it's an advisory lock, but it's a lock, and unsophisticated user don't expect anyone else to be able to check out the file. Perforce also does no automatic merging, unlike CVS and Subversion and others.
Merging is a fallback in Perforce. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.34.156.186 (talk) 17:19, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Perforce does not operate on the merge model 

message: The footnote in the article, "In Perforce, file attributes can be set to allow for the lock model. However, this is discouraged by Perforce and should only be used on files (typically binaries) that cannot be easily merged on check in." is
a) incomplete: files can be opened locked, in addition to specifying that all files of a particular type default to opened locked, and
b) incorrect as far as I can tell: reading nearly all of the documentation on the Perforce website I find no recommendations against locking
I'm removing the footnote and changing the model to Merge or Lock.
Regarding a, see  or .  Regarding b, if someone can come up with a reference saying locking is discouraged, then cool, but Locking is still supported regardless.
Cheers. 75.45.127.0 06:48, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  It operates under merge or lock 

message: A lot of revision control systems compress their data. For example, git saves commits as a pointer to a version of each file, but the versions are delta-encoded so its size is actually O(change entropy). I don't know about all systems, but shouldn't repos size for the compressed systems read O(patch entropy) for example? O(patch entropy) is quite different from O(patch), because saving a terabyte of zeroes won't take up a lot of space but saving a gigabyte of random data will. Boemanneke 17:06, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You're right, but that's a level of detail that is unnecessary for a high-level overview like this.  O(patch) means "proportional to the size of the change", with a poorly specified "change" metric.  Talking about entropy doesn't change that quibble; we just talk about the model that the entropy is relative to.  The column basically translates to "does delta compression?", but it's made less ambiguous by using an objectively measurable metric.  So leave it as is.  71.41.210.146 (talk) 11:09, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Repos size = O(entropy(x))? 

message: There's no good reason to merge, since the articles deal with different aspects - comparison to highlight differences, and a list to show the range of possibilities.  If the topics were small, then the merged article might save.  But they're not.  Tedickey 12:39, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Relationship to List of revision control software 

message: * Added the price for Accurev (1,495$) which was previously set as unknown.
* Moved the new "Razor" system to its appropriate place in the alphabet. Also changed its internal link to razor(Revision Control System) since its current link was pointing to the regular Razor page.
* I noticed that a few more systems were out of order. Resorted them, and they are on their proper places now. Going to have a look if i can replace a few "?" from the tables with actual information.
(I'm resigning the date each time i add something, so most changes are older then the date displayed!)
Excirial 14:58, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Changes 

message: Informations about SVK are outdated.
See http://bestpractical.typepad.com/worst_impractical/2007/01/svk_20_is_bette.html
--201.52.25.118 04:02, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  SVK 

message: Should these:
 * (List of) Source Configuration Management
 * (List of) Version Control Systems
be redirected here? Arauzo (talk) 17:08, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Other names for 'revision control software' 

message: What do you contributors think about dividing this article in two, one for centralized and other for decentralized VCSs?
The rationale is that one of the very first decisions you make when making your choice of VCS, is whether it should be decentralized or it can be client-server. This is directly tied to your development model. After you have decided which model of VCS you want, then you compare the features provided by those software that provide that model.
The benefits are that the tables would be smaller and easier to read and compare them, and each article may focus on features specific to a single model (like inter-repository merging (push/pull) facilities and support, that are specific for distributed VCSs).
--Juliano (T) 20:35, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Divide this article in two? 

message: Hello, what do you think of adding as a field the language (C, Python etc.) the application is written in ?
Eric.dane (talk) 17:03, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  add "language" field ? 

message: One factor which is relevant when choosing a revision control system is whether existing projects can be moved into it, and conversely moved out from it, without losing the revision history. (I'd normally use the terms import and export for these, but the Revision control page defines "export" as an operation which "creates a clean directory tree without the version control metadata".) Migration tools generally seem to be separate utilities rather than integrated parts of the various systems, but it is nontheless interesting to know that they exist and which moves are supported by existing software.
When considering whether to start using revision control system X, it is obviously important whether one's old projects currently controlled by system Y can be moved to the new system — even if this isn't something one does immediately, it is probably something one considers doing eventually, since why move unless the new system X has some attractive features not found in system Y?
The need to move out is the need to have the option to undo a decision, in case it after several months of experience turns out to have been a bad one. It might also arise because one wishes to switch from a distributed to a client–server system (or vice versa). It is of course always possible to take the tip of trunk in system X and check that back into the old system Y as just a new version, but that loses all the history that was recorded using system Y, and file renames are likely to be lost track of. 81.231.36.22 (talk) 21:59, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: There's probably not a lot of material here - there are import features in various tools, mainly provided as a competitive measure.  A few of those are done well; users of the target systems tend to be uninformed about the topic of import limitations since the developers of the tools tend to blame the original system.  Exports (other than providing a snapshot as noted above) fare worse. Tedickey (talk) 22:07, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I agree with 81.231.36.22 that moving projects from one system to another without losing the revision history is important to me and I suspect many of the readers of this article. For now, I'm putting that information as "migration from" and "migration to" and "lossless" in the "supported formats" column. There seems to be more than enough material to mention it here. --DavidCary (talk) 18:53, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Migration possibilities? 

message: The article claims Perforce supports digital signing of revisions. I can find no evidence of this either in Perforce itself or on the Internet. Does anyone know if this is accurate?
MoraSique (talk) 20:13, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Signed revisions in Perforce 

message: Hi, what do you think about adding a column for the storage method in the Technical Information section?  For instance, TFS uses SQL Server, Subversion uses Berkeley DB / Custom (FSFS).  I think that this is useful because it can have a significant impact on cost, performance, maintainability, scalability, and stability of the VCS. Rriehle (talk) 15:34, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Storage Method / Format 

message: Please keep the legends of the tables in one consistent form. Using the ref tag creates references you have to click on to get an explanation. A reader has to click on each reference to learn what exactly the headings of the table mean. Having the legend right below the table is consistent with tables elsewhere and much more useable for the reader. --134.93.178.89 (talk) 08:28, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Table legend 

message: I would like to remove all entries which do not have a Wikipedia article themselves. I know that is not entirely fair, but we need to limit ourselves to more notable software. Right now, there is no way we can maintain or even verify most claims, because nobody has ever even heard of these systems. --Drizzd (talk) 12:20, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: agree (plus remove all external links - most of this topic is merely advertising) Tedickey (talk) 14:17, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  limit to managable amount of entries 

message: Is there a reason that these two distinct options exist for the concurrency model column in the first table?  When sorting by column, "Merge or Lock" is at one end of the table, and "Lock or Merge" is at the other. Should only one of these terms be used for the purposes of proper sorting? 12 Centuries (talk)
: Yes, and while we are at it, let's convert to lowercase "merge or lock" as well. --Drizzd (talk) 13:05, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Merge or Lock vs. Lock or Merge 

message: The comment "unsafe on non-private repostories" in the explanation for the rollback column in the advanced commands table doesn't apply to all the revision control systems. It certainly doesn't apply to Perforce. When the comment was added, on the 16th of February 2009, only Git, Darcs and Mercurial was indicated as supporting rollback. I don't know of the comment even applies to all three of those. I would suggest adding notes for those systems where it's not considered safe and removing the comment from the explanation. --Niklas 83.233.37.17 (talk) 01:06, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rollback unsafe on non-private repostories? 

message: What is the meaning of Fetch for Git in the Basic Commands table?  It is not listed in the terms below the table.  Should this be changed to Pull?
--BobIsch (talk) 21:54, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: No. The table specifies the commands to use. git fetch downloads commits from a remote repository. git pull does something different, it downloads them and merges them into the current branch. I added a footnote regarding this. --93.206.80.226 (talk) 23:09, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fetch vs. Pull 

message: I'm changing the table where it says that Git can do a partial checkout/clone. Come on, that is a flat out lie. Git can do submodules and you can clone only one, a few, or none of the submodules, but that is not the same as saying that Git can partially clone a repository. Git has many benefits, but I don't like it when people try to lie to make things look better. I've been trying for quite a while to figure out the benefits and drawbacks of Git to see if it suits our developments, and wikipedia is nowhere near reliable on this matter. CrisLander (talk) 10:23, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Well, it is possible to do partial checkouts (enable core.sparseCheckout), just not partial clones. So in that sense the column is ambiguous. It is also possible to download a subdirectory from a repository (using git-archive). But neither of those features works in the sense that partial checkouts from conventional centralized systems do, which is probably what this column is about. So I agree with the No in that column, although the column description should be clarified. --80.123.242.182 (talk) 20:45, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Partial checkout/clone 

message: Most of those links are merely advertisements, not WP:RS TEDickey (talk) 14:25, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Accurev sources 

message: The "supports large repositories" section is somewhat misleading. SVN, for example, supports large repositories *IF* it is is a large repository of *small* files, but if you fill it full of >1GB source files it will eat itself the same afternoon. Perforce, on the other hand, is quite happy with large files. Large files isn't the same thing as large repository.
I'd really like to know which source control systems will use large files. Many people would like to use source control for binary files, and it would be helpful if that information were out there somewhere. For me personally, for example, I know Perforce does it will but it's too expensive. It would be nice if there were a less expensive or open-source alternative that was (truly) viable, but I'm having a lot of trouble finding that information!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.172.76.114 (talk) 02:47, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that it is useful to know which VCS's support large files. As you say, a large repository can have many small files, or few large files, or both. If a VCS cannot deal with each of those situations, then it does not support large repositories in general. It is unfortunately not easy to define what constitutes a large repository, and what the requirements are to support it. Therefore, it is not possible to give a simple yes or no answer for each VCS. But if you can provide a reference which shows that SVN does not play well with large files, then we can add an appropriate notice to the article. --Drizzd (talk) 13:54, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Support Large Repositories 

message: I found some numbers from 2009Q3 and added them, but I get the impression that git market share is now considerably higher. Here is a survey of Eclipse users, who are mainly Java programmers.  Any more general recent numbers would be interesting if anyone can find some. -- Beland (talk) 19:39, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that market share numbers most certainly are quite badly off. Actually, each one of these numbers should have a recent reference -- and have one for all the time into the far future. But who's maintaining them? No-one? 2009 is a loong time ago. Thus I'd actually propose to remove the market share column altogether, or relabel it "Estimated Market share in the year YYYY" if it has to stay. Or maybe, "estimated maximum market share in its lifetime so far" would be interesting. As it is now, it doesn't really have much informational value, IMHO. Neels (talk) 15:50, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text:  I removed the outdated market share information. Tanadeau (talk) 02:43, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Market share 

message: Rational Team Concert never supported HP-UX.
Also, supported platforms doesn't distinguish between server and client. In some cases there are even different clients that are supported on different platrforms. For instance, RTC's command-line client is supported on more platforms than its eclipse-based client.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.212.160.174 (talk) 12:48, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rational Team Concert doesn't support HP-UX 

message: How can it be reasonably determined whether something is being actively developed? Some of these SCMs are marked as active, but haven't had a release or a website update in years (e.g. Monotone). 
I think no changes (I mean nothing at all- no updates, commits, etc., not just no new releases) in the last year is safe enough to mark as inactive. In that vein, the page could use a cleanup. Attys (talk) 08:20, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Development status 

message: The article's "External links" section had been tagged for cleanup since February 2010. Half of the links tagged were dead links and the other half were outdated or written by authors of VCS systems and could be taken as promotional; I removed the entire section. 
The non-defunct links were for the most part written in the 2008-2010 range. They may still be current enough to justify inclusion in an EL section, but a quick read told me that they were pretty outdated and should probably be replaced with writing that reflects the state of the field now.
Those links are:
* Comparison between Git and Mercurial by Google (summer 2008)
* Comments on Open Source Software / Free Software SCM systems by David A. Wheeler
* Comparison of commercial Version Control Systems from the creators of Code Co-op
* Comparison of CVS and Subversion
--rahaeli (talk) 14:09, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed "External links" section 

message: Referring to TFS and Git - 
The 'features' table in the article says they support Symbolic Links, however I haven't found any reasonable way of adding a directory symbolic link (created using mklink /d)
Yes, I know you can convert it to some special file with special attributes, but that defies the whole idea of using symbolic links.
So either the table is wrong, or I am missing something.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yossiz74 (talk • contribs) 06:40, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Symbolic links 

message: The article has 8 tables and all of these tables have a different number of entry lines for a different set of programs.
If we like to make comparison more useful, all tables should list all programs. Schily (talk) 14:52, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Missing entries in various tables 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121120173624/http://www.accurev.com/virtualbooth/20110525-verizon-wireless/Verizon052011swf.html to http://www.accurev.com/virtualbooth/20110525-verizon-wireless/Verizon052011swf.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060615041642/http://www.perforce.com/perforce/customers.html to http://www.perforce.com/perforce/customers.html
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replies: text: Several of these are from entries in the "Notable users" column under "History and adoption".  The fact these articles have disappeared seems to strongly hint these entities may no longer be using the software.  I think all of these need to be checked and likely removed from that column. 74.104.188.4 (talk) 00:51, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

text: On second thought, I think the "Notable users" column under "History and adoption" should be split into two columns.  One column being "Current notable users" and the other being "Previous notable users".  Many entries under "Notable users" are entities which previously used those tools, but at this point few VCSes other than Git are gaining users. 74.104.188.4 (talk) 01:08, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: This is a bookkeepers dream: filling in tables with information. ... but is it useful? Is it interesting? Is it worth the effort? ... I don't think WP should not try to be a database. ... When a table gets wide enough that someone suggests splitting it into two, it's time to delete the table. Stevebroshar (talk) 22:25, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  OMG