Talk:Opposition to cults and new religious movements/Archive 1

message: I agree with user:Fossa that the long section about Scientology makes the article unbalanced. Andries 14:32, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: One might replace it with a section explaining that the internet is a platform for cult criticism, and link to the "scientology vs. the internet" definition. But "just delete" is not a solution. Especially considering that Fossa has a history of vandalism both in the german and in the english "scientology vs. the internet" definition. --Tilman 15:37, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Did you learn this strictly ad hominem argumentation at a Scientology course? Do NOT delete the merger request, until the discussion has finished. Fossa?! 15:40, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: What I said is a fact. Your "question" is a personal attack. --Tilman 15:44, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually both your comments are in violation of Civility. I am not trying to be rude. Also Tilman, revealing personal information about another member violates Civility.  Can we all just try to improve the article. This bickering reflects badly on Wikipeida. This is what I am learning about Civility. John196920022001 11:40, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oops! My reply was a little late for this one! It's late where I live, I am going to bed John196920022001 11:43, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

text:  I don't even have a "history of vandalism", that's just your POV interpretation of me removing dubious statements from Wikipedia. Fossa?! 15:48, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  You have certainly a history of blocks in the german wikipedia because of your behaviour. --Tilman 15:53, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Sure, I have a "history on the German Wikipedia": I am a controversial figure, but not one that commits vandalism. Fossa?! 15:57, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Arbitrary section header

message: "Disaffected" has pejorative denotations and connotations and should therefore not be used to describe former group members as it introduces POV. Tanaats 00:50, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I do not see what is wrong with using "disaffected", but if you insist, we can remove that on the basis that it is not a term used in scholarly books/articles about a subject. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 01:08, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank you.  Yes, I feel that I must insist we change a word that has negative denotations, e.g. "discontented and disloyal, as toward the government or toward authority", "Resentful and rebellious, especially against authority", "discontented as toward authority".  I propose saying "Critical former members" rather than "disaffected individuals".  Tanaats 01:21, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disaffected 

message: Regarding "A few entrepreneurs have made careers by creating organized opposition. (See Rick Ross)."...  Hadden's language has a great deal of pejorative connotation, e.g. that such people have more interest in establishing a "career" than in helping people.  Also the word "entrepeneur" has the connotation that such people's main interests are business and money-making.  It's fine that this is Hadden's opinion that such people exist, but I think it's inappropriate to implicitly label a particular individual as belonging to this category.  Besides being unsupportable, I doubt that it meets the spirit, if not the letter, of WP:BLP.  I propose that "(See Rick Ross)" should be removed Tanaats 01:18, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rick Ross an "entrepreneur"?  

message: Regarding "One of the characteristics of the ACM is their tendency to make general complaints about "cults" based on accusations of organizational hierarchical structure, charismatic leadership, thought reform, mind control, and brainwashing, instead of focusing on specific problems and abuses that take place in some of these groups"... This is completely inaccurate.  Cult critics focus intensely on "specific problems and abuses that take place in some groups".  I propose that the sentence be taken out.  In the meantime I've hung a "fact" tag on it. Tanaats 18:05, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I had originally written that based on what I, possibly mistakenly, had understood from among others the writings of David V. Barrett. I do not have good source for it, that it is a source that supports this statement without being a free interpretation of the source. Andries 19:20, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Non-focus on problems and abuses? 

message: I notice the that article makes no mention that some groups frequently demonize critical former members with a whole spectrum of accusations of character flaws and claims of criminal actions. (e.g. Freedom Magazine, Vol 27, Issue 4: A Crime By Any Other Name. See "Dennis Erlich: Copyright Terrorist".) Do any of the NRM scholars mention this frequent occurance with some groups? AndroidCat 04:40, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Demonizing apostates

message: Does anyone mind if I take off the "mergeto" tag? Tanaats 00:33, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Take off "mergeto" tag? 

message: Does anyone mind if I put an "unsourced" tag on the article?  Tanaats 00:34, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unsourced? 

message: Unless someone wants to discuss it first, I'm going to change "anti-cult activist" to "cult critic" in the article.  We don't, for an example, refer to NRM scholars as "anti-religious-bigotry activists", and for NPOV we should extend the same courtesy to the cult critics. Tanaats 00:59, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I support that change. Vassyana 20:51, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Good idea.  Smeelgova 05:10, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Anti-cult activist" --> "cult critic" 

message: The term anti-cult movement is used almost exclusivly by NRM scholars.  Cult critics dispute the very existence such a movement.  The use of "anti-cult movement" outside of the context of expressing the opinions of NRM scholars is therefore POV.  
I have changed "Other opposition comes from traditional religion, the anti-cult movement, the Christian countercult movement, skeptics, and critical former members (sometimes referred to in literature as apostates) to "Other opposition comes from traditional religion, secular cult critics, the Christian countercult movement, skeptics, and critical former members (sometimes referred to in literature as apostates)." Tanaats 20:54, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  The anti-cult movement mention in the intro