Talk:Footprints (poem)

message: Is it Stephenson or Stevenson? —preceding unsigned comment by Mhari (talk • contribs) 21:29, Sep 19, 2005 (UTC)
: Good call, seems it is Stevenson - will correct it now. (source) -- 81.99.181.231 11:13, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
thread_title: Spelling

message: The page seems to be arguing with itself about authorship.  This is inappropriate for an encyclopedia format.
:Agreed. I took it out. Miss Dark 01:25, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Dispute on Page

message: This article should not be used as a platform for arguing one claim of authorship over any others. Wikipedia places heavy stress on neutrality, and is therefore not the place for airing such matters. Ben Parsons 08:02, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Neutrality 

message: This "poem" is typically four or five paragraphs long.  There's no meter, rhyme, or rhythmic intent. 
There are no well-placed line breaks, no toying with language, no artful structuring.  It's obvious that this is more of an essay than a poem.  Should it be moved to Footprints (story) or something similar? Dyfsunctional 13:56, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agreed with this concern, but google revealed that at least one person who asserts authorship calls it a poem (http://www.footprints-inthe-sand.com/index.htm), and other results have more along those lines. For more input, i'd suggest listing this at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Poetry. "alyosha" (talk) 20:35, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Poem?

message: If there is no recognized author, there is no copyright on it, right?  I have a store-bought cross with this poem written on it hanging on my child's wall.  May I copy the words from it onto the page for this article?
David —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.121.120.227 (talk) 05:41, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That ain't how it works, fam. ⇒SWATJester Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat! 04:08, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Can we reproduce the text of the poem? 

message: ...and left this on the talk page of the person who added it:
Hello. Thank you for adding the text of the "Footprints" poem to Footprints (poem). I have removed it for three reasons:
1) The page says elsewhere that the author is unknown; if you add a paragraph stating who the author is, you would need to change the other part of the page as well.
2) You make a claim as to who the author is without giving any sources where that claim can be verified.
3) If, as you claim, this was written in 1963, then as you say it is almost certainly still in copyright. Therefore, it cannot be reproduced in Wikipedia without a specific set of rights being given away by the copyright holder.
I hope this explains my changes; feel free to come and discuss it at Talk:Footprints (poem). Marnanel (talk) 17:44, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Removed text of poem 

message: I wondered whether to make "The Lord" a link; The Lord goes to a page discussing what a lord is. There's obviously also God, YHWH (of which "The Lord" is a very common rendering in English, representing "Adonai"), or I suppose God of Israel, since YHWH is a page about the name and not the being, though I'm not sure everyone who uses this poem has that particular deity in mind). Marnanel (talk) 17:47, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  wikilink of "The Lord" 

message: The poem titled FOOTPRINTS IN THE SAND has been claimed by many persons over the years since it's release, however two of the named individuals that you have included never actualy claimed to author the poem. Haussing is being held up by Carty in some obscure roll to bolster Carty's claims to authorship and Mary Stevenson is being held up as author by her step son. Both of these represent unsubstantiated allegations which are inappropiate for inclusion in an encyclopedia format.
According to American copyright law copyright is automatic to the author so no one but the author can legaly register copyright. Since the copyright office does not verify nor authenticate applicants for registration, anyone can purchase a copyright registeration. Such registerations are not legal but represent theft by the purpetrators.
As long as there is doubt as to the author of the poem it seems improper to credit it to any other than "Author unknown" as it was origionaly released. 12.73.18.153 (talk) 07:58, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: LMFAO no, an improper registration is in no way, shape, or form "theft." That's not how it works. ⇒SWATJester Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat! 04:11, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  claims to authorship 

message: I deleted the email address that was in the references, as it fails both WP:V and WP:RS. Furthermore, polygraph tests results are unreliable. I also added back the reference listing template.  jonathon (talk) 18:26, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: You'll note that this article doesn't mention Montgomery County Historical Society in Red Oak, Iowa. It does provide the copyright data of the publication that contains his version of the poem.jonathon (talk) 14:58, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  References 

message: The article says "is now public domain property and was later copyrighted by Mary Stevenson Zangare in 1984." Either the poem is under copyright, or it is public domain. With a 1984 copyright date, it would not be public domain today.
The critical issues are:
* When was the poem first published? 
* Under what conditions was it published?
Given that the article states that there are three entities claiming copyright, and that that the version published here is under copyright, I deleted the poem.jonathon (talk) 21:49, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyright Issue 

message: Hi All,  I have removed the Hume reference.  It is just not relevant: 
:"If you saw upon the sea-shore the print of one human foot, you would conclude, that a man had passed that way, and that he had also left the traces of the other foot, though effaced by the rolling of the sands or inundation of the waters."
i.e. both feet belong to one (human) body; the missing prints have been erased (whereas int he poem they were never there.  There is no reference to divine companionship or assistance.  Regards,  Springnuts (talk) 11:31, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Hume's references to footprints in "An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding" 

message: I've been deleting Carolyn Joyce Carty sites copyright infringement on all parties named except Ella H. Scharring-Hausen because, as written, it is meaningless. If "cites", rather than "sites" is meant, it is still a meaningless statement. If, instead, "issued citations" is meant, then a reference to lawsuits that have been filed by Carolyn Joyce Carty is needed. jonathon (talk) 04:07, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I added the legal case template.  This way the article can explain the case, without running into too much legal terminology.  jonathon (talk) 13:26, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

text: I don't have  access to PACER, but I found a couple of unreliable sources on the Internet that implied the plaintiff prevailed in their claims.jonathon (talk) 21:10, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: The Lawsuit 

message: I've been re-adding She did not register a copyright with the US Copyright Office. because the other claimants also have a line or two about their copyright filings, or lack thereof. 
I've been re-adding All claims regarding her authorship have been made by third parties because she does not appear have publicly claimed that this work is her. If Ella Scharring-Hausen did make such a claim, then where she made such a claim needs to be cited.jonathon (talk) 04:07, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Ella H. Scharring-Hausen

message: This can be sung to the Londonderry Air/O Danny Boy tune and can be found here: http://www.raglan.churchuk.net/Footprints2%20text.htm
Could someone insert this into the main page, please?
:No. Just because it can, doesn't mean that it's relevant. You could sing it to the tune of Billy Joel's We Didn't Start the Fire if you tried; doesn't mean it belongs in the article. ⇒SWATJester Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat! 04:14, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Footprints Hymn

message: Unless somebody wants to add sourcing in linking to literary criticism of the piece, it seems out-of-place to note that critics have debated the literary merits of the piece in the intro.  This could doubtlessly be said of every piece of literature or writing that's ever gotten any degree of scrutiny.  It seems like the point of this line is to say, in effect, "It's a chintzy, silly poem, but God bless 'em, those Christians love it".  It would be dubious to include the line even if it was sourced, since, like I said, the same could be said of any literary creation, but sourcing would at least make it less opinion-y.  Just a thought. 167.219.88.140 (talk) 16:32, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Literary Merits" 

message: Given that the article includes an entire section about adaptations, which starts off with the song, do we still need the cross reference at the top reading approximately "for the song see..."? Drhoehl (talk) 18:36, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cross reference 

message: In 1981 Edgel Groves released the first known song version of this poem.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hirules house (talk • contribs) 11:05, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
replies: text:  A random anon saying so is not a valid source for whether permissions have been granted, and you've not provided one shred of evidence for any of the many naked assertions you've made on this talk page over the past 13 years. ⇒SWATJester Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat! 04:17, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: First known song version

message: I don't know who originally wrote the poem 'Footprints in the sand, but I can tell you that I have a broadside, which is dated November 15, 1869. The broadside is an announcement of a Minstral Troupe appearing at Friendship Hall in Philadelphia on Nov. 15, 1869. It is titled Grand Complimentary Testimonial to Mr. Wm. M. Flood, Wood's Burlesque Troupe and a a host of volunteers. It lists many performmances by various actors. One of them reads: Dramatic Readings; also one reads 'Footprints in the sands by W. M. Flood. The broadside is a woodcut print. It was engraved by Adrian Probasco, Philadelphis and was printed by Ledger Job Print, Philadelphis. 
I don't know if this is the same poem but one has to wonder. 
`````  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 9thstinstpete (talk • contribs) 03:30, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Footprints in the sand 

message: Remove the copyrighted text referring to the footprints poem under the photo. This text is copyrighted and cannot be used.
Donetalking45 (talk) 21:47, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Done Not certain about the copyright issue. Jnorton7558 (talk) 09:47, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request from Donetalking45, 23 June 2011 

message: In "Authorship and origins," after the sentence citing Aviv's Poetry Foundation article, the following summary of that article should be inserted:
The article observes that Margaret Fishback Powers has a registered copyright as author of the poem, and has licensed the work to dozens of companies including Hallmark Cards and Lenox gifts.  Mrs. Powers is also the owner of the trademarks FOOTPRINTS and FOOTPRINTS IN THE SAND, which are registered in the United States and abroad for a broad array of products and services.
Kipdutine (talk) 20:13, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: -- no sources provided to validate that assertion. ⇒SWATJester Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat! 04:18, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request from KipDutine, 10 April 2012 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: I'm afraid this section still has the same issues I tagged it with earlier this month, perhaps more so. I wonder if you've read the Wikipedia:No original research policy, and in particular the section on synthesis?
To add a statement to a Wikipedia article, you need a reference for that specific statement, and a reference that it is relevant to the topic being discussed; not merely evidence that the thing you are talking about exists.  For example, from the top of this section:
: Prior to its appearance in the late 1970s as a key phrase in the poem, and its popular tile, the phrase "footprints in the sand" occurred in limited (but occasionally widely read) contexts, including prose, published work titles, and poetry.
: The most dominant usage in prose is in the context of fictional or actual adventure or mystery stories or articles. Prominent fictional stories would include Daniel Defoe's 1719 novel Robinson Crusoe; and Nathaniel Hawthorne's Foot-prints on the Sea-shore, first published in the journal Democratic Review [8]
That first paragraph has no references at all.  On whose authority are the contexts declared "limited"?  In the second paragraph, the reference demonstrates that the work Foot-prints on the Sea-shore exists; but that doesn't provide references for any of the other statements - by what authority do we establish that adventure and mystery stories are "the most dominant usage in prose" of the phrase?  Just demonstrating that one such story exists isn't sufficient to state this.
Finally, the relevance of the content to the article needs to be established - to add to the article about the footprints poem content about Robinson Crusoe is, I'm afraid, original research synthesis unless you have an article that specifically links the two.
This section might make an interesting blog post, but I'm afraid I'm not currently convinced that very much of it belongs on this Wikipedia page, unless reliable sources can be found for all the assertions made, and tying them to the Footprints poem.  (Even then they might be better as a separate "Footprints in the sand" article, as the vast majority of the section doesn't relate to the poem.)  TSP (talk) 18:39, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Footprints_(poem)#Popular_usage_of_"footprints_in_the_sand"|Popular usage of "footprints in the sand" section]] 

message: Google Books search indicates an appearance in a March 1977 edition of Imola News link which was the in-house newspaper of the Napa State Hospital. There is also a newsletter from 1976. Can these be added? Sheila1988 (talk) 20:41, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
thread_title: Earlier appearance in print?

message: Air France stated that Adhemar de Barros wrote the poem (song was used in the Air France Flight 447 mass). I wonder where that comes from... WhisperToMe (talk) 00:35, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
thread_title:  Adhemar de Barros claim