Talk:Relocation of professional sports teams

message: Stuff this should cover
*when did it develop and why?
*stuff about teams moving
*why did it 'not' really develop in Europe (along with tendencies towards such - e.g. Wimbledon F.C. moving to Milton Keynes)
Morwen - Talk 17:21, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Heading 1

message: I put the tag up because I feel that there could be more about the process in general and the structure of US sport that allows franchising - not something I understand but something that ought to be here. To put it simply, an article on sports franchising that just concerns british football is a bit lacking on content.
I was under the impression that when discussing this in Britain we were referring more to 'relocation', than 'franchsing' in the USA. I agree that the Wimbledon move is technically no different to that of Aresnal or Grimsby, but it is worth mentioning as it is largely referred to as 'franchising'. The Airdrie one is interesting - but again, I dont know enough about the strict definition of what 'franchising' is, hence the request for expansion Robdurbar 08:29, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Maybe we just have to acknowledge it as a misnomer.  But first, we really need some USofA contributions to explain what they understand by "sports franchising".  --Concrete Cowboy 13:00, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

text: Well in the UK - and generally in other European team sports - clubs have no real link to the league they are in. If they win it, they are promoted up a league (if there is a higher one); if they finish towards the bottom, they are relegated down a league. Clubs are tied to their town and location, and (in theory) any one team can move freely about the leagues. So Wigan Athletic, who were twenty years ago at the fifth level of English football/soccer, are now in the Premiership, the top league. Over a longer period of time, a club can move from playing local football within its city or conurbation to competing on a national scale - or visa versa. However, with the exceptions listed in the article, which have generally caused lots of controversey in the UK, a club will not move out of 'its' town, district or city Robdurbar 10:06, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Right -- promotion and relegation (one of the most intriguing aspects of European sports to me). Note that American pro sports teams don't have "members." The Packers are unique in that their ownership is distributed among more than 111,000 shareholders. -- Mwalcoff 01:03, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: "Expand" tag

message: It might be interesting to look at Welsh rugby where the top clubs representing Wales in the Celtic League and European competitions were replaced by regional franchises.  A similar thing happened in the Southern Hemisphere where the South African and New Zealand provincial unions have a stake in several Super 14 franchises.  In Australia four state unions operate a Super 14 franchise each. --ThirdEdition 23:40, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I dont follow rugby. Have proper franchises been introduced there? If so it should be a major part of this article. Jameswilson 01:13, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

text: If the use of the term "franchise" instead of "club" in the rugby association is simply a choice of words with no difference in substance, there's no need to discuss it anywhere. If they are called "franchises" rather than "clubs" because of a lack of promotion and relegation, the discussion presumably could be moved to promotion and relegation. If there is another substantive difference between a sports "franchise" and a "club," the redirect at the sports franchising article should be replaced with an article that explains the difference. -- Mwalcoff 04:00, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I had replaced it with a dab article before reading this.  Feel free to improve it.  (But yes, I think we do care - the problem is where we care! --Concrete Cowboy 13:30, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Welsh rugby? 

message: I am removing the entire section about the Australian National Rugby League, since none of the teams listed has relocated: it's rather a list of newly-created teams, or mergers between existing teams. mgekelly 20:06, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  NRL 

message: Maybe it will be useful to entertain these thoughts. The Premier League and other leagues, conferences, and divisions nominally comprising FA members are not organizations at all. Instead they are competitions, annual ones as it happens. The Football Association itself is the organization. Think about this as the model --an abstraction, of course not literally true, because some organization is needed to run each of the big annual competitions.
Elsewhere I hinted this way, asking what it means that the FA controls the Premier League but the second to fourth divisions (composing Football League) are independent. And asking what it means that every professional club must join the FA. --P64 15:02, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Competitions 

message: While I am here, consider another idea. Having a franchise in a league is having a vote. Think voting member, not Starbucks. The truth, I suppose, is that both meanings of franchise in ordinary English support the colloquial USAmericanism franchise (in a league) for a club that is a member of a league (on the American model that is still poorly specified). 
By the way, before visiting wikipedia last month I have supposed that "franchise" in American sports land is derived from the "vote" meaning. --P64 00:42, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Franchise 

message: Accuse me of bias, but I take offense at the following:
*1958: Brooklyn Dodgers moved to Los Angeles. The first baseball relocation to the West Coast.
*1958: New York Giants moved to San Francisco. Moved simultaneously with the Dodgers to facilitate travel for other NL teams.
This implies that the Dodgers moved to the West Coast, and then someone thought offhand that travel could be made easier, so the Giants moved with them. As a self-proclaimed baseball scholar, especially about the Giants, I know that this is certainly not the case. What really happened is a long story in which Minneapolis features prominently, but I don't want to go into details.
Anyhow, I propose the following text:
*1958: Brooklyn Dodgers moved to Los Angeles; New York Giants moved to San Francisco. The first major league teams on the West Coast. Teams moved simultaneously to facilitate travel for other NL teams.
I've seen this problem elsewhere on the Internet, and I think this wording is more neutral. Unless anyone has an objection, I'm being bold and changing it. ¿SFGiДnts! ☺ ☻ 03:34, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bad wording? 

message: I've noticed throughout the article that, in some places, the full team name is linked (Philadelphia Athletics, Baltimore Bullets), whereas in others, just the city name is linked (Buffalo Braves), and there also seems to be some disagreement as to whether to simply note the city move or note the new team name where applicable.  For the NHL section (which I know), I set out a consistent style that amalgamated these things as much as possible.  Other editors may agree or disagree with it, but it is, at least, consistent.  68.145.69.188 15:10, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Inconsistent style? 

message: The UK football section includes a bullet item referring to the relocation of a team called Horwich.  It appears that this is a 'semi-professional' team, not a full-time professional outfit.  If this is so, do they belong in this article?  Ferg2k (talk) 15:30, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Should Horwich be included? 

message: The part on the United Kingdom contains a large amount of opinion and states no references and contains brackets to show opinion. C. 22468   Talk to me 18:31, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  United Kingdom 

message: First, they moved less than 15 miles from Miami Gardens to Miami.  That's not a significant distance.
Second, if this relocation is noteworthy, then you'd have to also include the Miami Dolphins move in 1987.  They made the exact same move in reverse when they went from the Orange Bowl (where Marlins Stadium now stands) to Sun Life Stadium.  I'd wager few would considered that a relocation.
The change of the Marlins name and uniforms had more to do with re-branding than a physical move.76.108.205.225 (talk) 04:32, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: After looking at the article's criteria for a relocated franchise, I've decided the Marlins fall under city to suburb move that does not qualify and have deleted it.76.108.205.225 (talk) 04:37, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Completely agreed. One would pretty much have to include every time a team moved to a new stadium if we were to include the Marlins. The Phoenix Coyotes and (modern) Ottawa Senators would be similar moves to a suburb within the MSA, and those are not listed.  Nor should they be. Resolute 17:24, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Miami Marlins is Dubious 

message: "Moves of teams that as of 2014 no longer exist." - I note that the section on the NHL does indeed include teams that no longer exist: the original Senators, Pirates, Tigers, etc. Either those teams should be removed from the list, or remove that statement from the conditions ahead of the league sections. Echoedmyron (talk) 16:40, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  "this list does not include" 

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Reference named "story":
From Lupa Roma F.C.: 
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thread_title:  Orphaned references in [[:Relocation of professional sports teams]] 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Are temporary moves really appropriate for this page? Are some temporary moves appropriate and not others? For example, is a temporary location only used while a new stadium is built at the old location worth noting? What about moves due to natural disasters? Or pandemics? Or wars? --Khajidha (talk) 12:51, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
thread_title:  Temporary moves