Talk:The Jeffersons (South Park)

message: Stan replies "Dude, whatever. At least you finally get to do something". This of course hints at Kenny's lack of involvement in many recent episodes.
This sounds slightly subjective, he might well be referring to Kenny's usual "stand and do nothing" attitude. I think this line is not necessary. Bittersky 01:05, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That and the "of course" line is slightly biased by assuming the reader has been watching recent episodes of South Park. The line could mean several things and is subject to interpertation, as is such I suggest we leave it out until a reliable source proves its true meaning. 68.219.26.177 (talk) 21:46, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  A hint? 

message: Quote:This is the first time since Super Best Friends that Kenny dies without his parka.
Aw, come on, is this really needed?
Yes, it is.--74.193.153.222 05:30, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: No it isn't and a "Nu-Uh" argument certainly won't prove me wrong, this information is hardly significant. The statement is uneccesary dramatization and sounds more like both an attempt to make this episode special and useless trivia than information worthy of inclusion in an encyclopedia. I'm deleting it now unless someone actually wasn't too intimidated by your "argument" and did it themselves. 68.219.26.177 (talk) 21:48, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  What?! 

message: "Kenny is seen in this episode without his orange parka wearing a mask similar to Blanket's. It was the only time in the whole television series when his speech is heard clearly, other than his line in the South Park movie." 
His voice is pretty clear in the new s11 episode Lice Capades aswell.. needs update? :)
Well I could barely hear Kenny in Lice Capades over all the other kids.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.95.67.166 (talk) 00:41, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: His voice is subject to interpertation, I don't know about you but I could hear his voice pretty clearly in the episode "Fourth Grade" when he commented on his new teachers breast size. I suggest we either delete the claim or write something similar to "It is the first time in the telivision series he speaks without the parka. 68.219.26.177 (talk) 21:36, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kenny's voice 

message: :Image:Kenny's Death in The Jeffersons.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Kenny's Death in The Jeffersons.jpg

message: The entire plot section could use a good re-writing, to make it shorter and just generally better in all aspects. Also, a firm and solid section on the similarities between Jefferson and Jackson. Lots42 (talk) 12:24, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Suggestion 

message: The following is a run-on sentence.  
When the boys go to visit their new neighbor, they meet his son Blanket, who always wears a mask and do not believe he is really called Blanket, as well as refusing to hang out with him, until he tells them they have arcades inside.
Worse, there are three clauses which go back-and-forth, referring to different nouns.  
Blanket: who always wears a mask
"the boys": do not believe he is really called Blanket as well as refusing to hang out with him
Blanket: until he tells them they have arcades inside.
I'd like to make this easier to read—-and grammatical—-but that would require more than a simple change.  Preferably the entire sentence should be recast.  Or split into multiple sentences, one with Blanket as the subject, the other with "the boys" (Stan, Kyle et al).drone5 (talk) 08:34, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: If you ask me this entire article needs to be rewritten for both grammatical and format reasons, plus the plot section needs to be summarized and somehow shortened in length. 68.219.26.177 (talk) 00:02, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Readability 

message: Kenny's death is noted in the other episodes where he croaks. It's very noteworthy, it's practically what made South Park. Why remove it? Lots42 (talk) 23:40, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Kenny has died dozens of times. To do thus would make his page unreadable. I don't understand at all the opposition to a brief mention of his death in the episode page. Kenny croaking -is- noteable. Lots42 (talk) 02:19, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: A brief mention is still to devote an entire section to one small plot point. How's about a moral? Or a check on whether Cartman came out on top or not in this episode? Or whether Kyle morally bested him? All running jokes, all appearing frequently, why not a section for all of them? Alastairward (talk) 15:28, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Because they are not as noteable as a main character dying inexplicably in many of the issues. Many shows have morals or one-upmanship or whatever. Many shows don't have a cast member dying horribly nearly every episode. Although, that would improve some shows. Lots42 (talk) 04:59, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kenny's Death 

message: The only refrences in the article provide information on only Michael Jackson, not the episode. 68.219.26.177 (talk) 21:40, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: So noted, the main content is a mess.Alastairward (talk) 14:14, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Original Research

message: is there any information on the significance of the jeffersons' house number, 41971? it is very conspicuously shown several times throughout the episode. --emerson7 07:03, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  41971 

message: Following this discussion on the Reliable Sources noticeboard, I would like confirmation that the IMDB reference used previously here was indeed submitted after the verification process started at IMDB and that a source for their claim can be found. Alastairward (talk) 10:38, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  IMDB 

message: Word of god says they did a Jackson parody episode, they didn't say which one.
movies.ign.com/articles/612/612094p3.html Lots42 (talk) 07:15, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: It should, in my opinion. Lots42 (talk) 08:57, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Word Of God Part 2 

message: Please add any legitimate mainstream references that indicate this episode is in fact a reference to Michael Jackson. Feel free to use these references in rewriting the article.
The official amazon.com review for the 8th season says that Mr. Jefferson is a Jackson parody: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FSME2Y/ref=cm_rdp_product
Maxim magazine says Jefferson is "Jackson-like": http://www.maxim.com/entertainment/reviews.aspx?p_id=12156
The National Board of Review's John Gallagher says this episode is "a howlingly funny assault on Michael Jackson": http://www.nbrmp.org/features/TheDeparted.cfm128.151.71.18 (talk) 17:13, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The references will have to be absolute, the Maxim review for example says "a Michael Jackson-like freak", doesn't sound like an actual reference to me. Amazon reviews don't seem to be notable either, even if they are "official". Alastairward (talk) 18:59, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm putting the Amazon.com review back in, per a discussion at Citing Sources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Citing_sources#What_is_a_legitimate_source.3F128.151.71.18 (talk) 19:14, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Doesn't really matter though. Unless the episode offers notability, it will ultimately be merged to a list of episodes. Alastairward (talk) 19:59, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Michael Jackson references 

message: I've never seen other articles using a single review in the lead paragraph, any need for it? Alastairward (talk) 16:14, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: It's not the review that's important.  You could state that some sources have pointed out that Jefferson = Jackson, and then cite all the reviews below.  That it's a Michael Jackson satire is what needs to be in the lead. 94.192.44.89 (talk) 23:31, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: That's not really what's in the lead though, it's just a review. I'll leave it a few days and then take it down again I guess... Alastairward (talk) 23:48, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lead paragraph 

message: ...for any editor that can bring this article to Good Article status. See here. Pyrrhus16 19:16, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Reward... 

message: Hi, I am responding to a request for a third opinion over at WP:3O. To the best of my knowledge, I have not interacted with any of the editors before, and I have not contributed to this article. 
==== Summary of disputes ====
OrangeDog added a sentence to the lede describing how this is the only episode where Kenny speaks. It was subsequently removed by Alastairward, who feels that it is trivial, and should not be in the lede, nor anywhere else in the article. 
OrangeDog wrote that Blanket, a name used in the episode, is in fact the nickname of one of Michael Jackson's children, supported by a cite. Alastairward contested this addition on the grounds that the cite did not mention South Park, and any mention of this fact would constitute synthesis.
==== My thoughts ====
From an in-universe perspective, the fact that Kenny speaks is clearly significant. However, all our articles should have the real world as its frame of reference, and the question becomes: is this fact also significant in the real world? My answer is "yes, provided that it has been commented on by reliable sources in the real world". I have a hard time believing this has not been commented on by the creators and / or reviewers. When sourced commentary is provided, I do think it can (and should) be incorporated in the prose of a production or reception section. I think "Lisa's First Word" handles a similar issue very well. 
In the article's current state, I see little harm in a short mention of it in the lede, since it is verifiable, and likely to be subject of critical commentary at some point in the article, but feel that the mention of "Lice Capades" is trivial, and the rest is already to be found in the plot summary (which makes up 70-90% of the article). From the MOS:
 
As for the Blanket issue, I think it is indeed (for lack of a better word) synthesis. Until a source comments on the fact that Blanket is the nickname of Jackson's kid, I think it'd be best to leave it out of the article. Obvious as it may seem, Wikipedia should not draw conclusions about the intent of the show's creators, in naming a character "Blanket". A statement mentioning this fact could be seen as an attempt to do just that.
Lastly I would encourage the editors to focus on the big issues, instead of quibbling. Of course, this is much easier said than done :). There's obviously much, much room for improvement of this article, and I think that both disputes, in the end, boil down to inadequate referencing. 
I'll stop now, before I start rambling. decltype (talk) 12:50, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  3rd opinion 

message: From an in-universe perspective, the fact that Kenny speaks is clearly significant. However, all our articles should have the real world as its frame of reference, and the question becomes: is this fact also significant in the real world? My answer is "yes, provided that it has been commented on by reliable sources in the real world". I have a hard time believing this has not been commented on by the creators and / or reviewers. When sourced commentary is provided, I do think it can (and should) be incorporated in the prose of a production or reception section. I think "Lisa's First Word" handles a similar issue very well. 
In the article's current state, I see little harm in a short mention of it in the lede, since it is verifiable, and likely to be subject of critical commentary at some point in the article, but feel that the mention of "Lice Capades" is trivial, and the rest is already to be found in the plot summary (which makes up 70-90% of the article). From the MOS:
 
As for the Blanket issue, I think it is indeed (for lack of a better word) synthesis. Until a source comments on the fact that Blanket is the nickname of Jackson's kid, I think it'd be best to leave it out of the article. Obvious as it may seem, Wikipedia should not draw conclusions about the intent of the show's creators, in naming a character "Blanket". A statement mentioning this fact could be seen as an attempt to do just that.
Lastly I would encourage the editors to focus on the big issues, instead of quibbling. Of course, this is much easier said than done :). There's obviously much, much room for improvement of this article, and I think that both disputes, in the end, boil down to inadequate referencing. 
I'll stop now, before I start rambling. decltype (talk) 12:50, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  My thoughts 

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