Talk:Glossary of British terms not widely used in the United States/Archive 2

message: ...there are many British words that do deserve a place on the list... you put them in with a brief explaination (as a synonym---if the synonym is also British this will be detected and dealt with appropriately ;) and I'll add, if necessary, the American equivalent (if any).--JackLumber 12:06, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That works for me. When I first met that word, I was impressed by the -way suffix---compare orig. U.S. driveway and orig. U.K. drive. --JackLumber, 20:18, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: The British to-do list

message: Shouldn't this be on the differences list only as it is a word used on both sides of the Pond but with very different meanings ? The Fat Contrator 13:34, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Fanny 

message: I'm deleting Agony Aunt. I just don't feel that it's an English word, or vocabulary at all. You could list 1001 British phrases like 'Agony Aunt' which Americans wouldn't recognise. Feel free to revert. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.69.36.199 (talk • contribs)  
*Did you delete because it isn't used in BrEng, or because it is also used in AmEng? It certainly is a well-known BrEng phrase. If it's frequent in AmEng too, then fine, let's delete. Snalwibma 19:57, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Deleting Agony Aunt 

message: Jack, your amendment to "plaster" in the different meanings list, reminded me that I'd seen a similar entry in this list "[sticking/sticky] plaster, Elastoplast".  I propose to move that from this list and incorporate it in the different meanings list.  Any thoughts?  TrevorD 14:29, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes. It means "stuff one puts on walls" in USA doesn't it? So therefore, this is the wrong place for it. --Celestianpower háblame 15:17, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Plaster 

message: I see "chippie" is in this list for a fish & chip shop.  It's also used for "carpenter" - is it used for that in the US? TrevorD 23:10, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: No for both. But this word (also spelled chippy) should definitely be in the Different Meaning list---in America, it can mean either "an unpleasant woman, a slut" (somewhat old-fashioned slang) or, colloquially, this cute little critter. --JackLumber 12:20, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  chippie 

message: Marco79 - If you MUST move/rename this page and it's sister page, will you PLEASE fix ALL the links.  There are still numerous links to both the old pages and your page move has created some DOUBLE REDIRECTS.  Please refer to the Wikipedia Manual, which says:
How to rename a page:
...
4. Check for redirects.
    * Double-redirects will fail to link, and must be renamed to redirect to the current page name.
PLEASE either fix ALL the links or move the pages back to their original names.
You should also be aware that recently these pages have been renamed one way or another about twice a week, so you may appreciate that another unnecessary rename is not appreciated. TrevorD 16:32, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Done. I think I got them all. Apologies if I've caused some inconvinient problems. Marco79 23:54, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page move 

message: In the first article, this phrase Like the Hillbilly stereotype of the United States Yokels are considered to have low IQ. would seem to indicate that the Yokel term is primarily found in Commonwealth Englsh. Whereas the latter is almost certainly an Americanism (general).
*While I have read or heard the occasional reference to 'Yokel' in the U.S., I can't say whether I was reading a British author. So the question is whether these articles, need some edits that lay bare the national roots of there terms beyond 'Scotts-Irish' immigrants to the U.S.
*I also have a little trouble imagining one of my British friends using the term 'Hillbilly'. :-)
Have fun! Thanks <B>Fra</B>nkB 04:46, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Hillbilly is never used here, and the only time I ever heard the word Yokel in UK speech is in a Two Ronnies sketch. I suspect it's not a term used regularly in speech, but both would be understood by the majority of UK speakers. -- Boothman 19:58, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree with Boothman on "Hillbilly" being not used, but nevertheless understood, in the UK.  I've heard "yokel" a number of times, usually in the expression "country yokel".  It's probably old-fashioned and it's certainly not an everyday expression, but again, I agree it would usually be understood.  --  TrevorD 22:28, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yes, that would be my assessment. --Celestianpower háblame 22:40, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  "Hillbilly" is an Americanism (we also have Hillbilly music...), and is definitely recent (1900) if compared to more-or-less synonyms like yokel, bumpkin, boor, hick, or backwoodsman. Hick and hillbilly are probably the most common in the U.S., although the meaning is not exactly the same. (Hillbilly shows 17 times in the British National Corpus, and Yokel... 18---the former is an Americanism, and the latter just ol'-fashioned.) Periphrases are easily formed---there are many, many words describing a rural, unsophisticated area: boondocks, boonies, backwoods, backwater, jerkwater town, bum-fuck Egypt, bum-fuck Virginia, bum-fuck West Virginia, bum-fuck Tennessee... JackLumber 23:10, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry to add this at this late time, but "Yokel" seems to be used far more often in Canada than in either the UK or the US these days, especially in phrases like "the local yokels", "the yokel express" (what Americans might call the "milk run" bus that stops at every small town), and the like. It's an everyday expression. I'm not sure if it belongs on a US-UK English list since many Americans and Britons don't even recognize the word. --Charlene 00:05, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

text:  Not quite chaps. Without being rude I would say that a Briton who does not recognise 'yokel' has a poor vocab.  It is very well known in the UK as meaning a country bumkin or countryman, usually from the labouring classes.  As to the US, is it not used in 'The Simpsons' to describle Cletus as in 'Cletus the Slack-Jawed Yokel'? The Fat Contrator 12:35, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  [[Yokel]] Vs. [[Hillbilly]] 

message: Does AmE use Xerox as a verb meaning to photocopy, or as an adjective a Xerox copy?
Or use photostat to mean photocopy? -- TrevorD 23:16, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Xerox as a verb (to xerox) and a noun (a xerox) more rarely. I haven't heard photostat at all. Rmhermen 03:05, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Photostat was a common American term prior to the widespread introduction of the Xerox in the seventies. Similar obsolete terms are Mimeograph and Ditto. GCW50
Just noticed that the Xerox article states:
The success of the Xerox brand has led to the terms "a xerox", "xerox it", "to xerox", "xeroxed", and "xeroxing" being used synonymously for the product/act of photocopying in North American English.
which suggests it's not mainly UK usage and therefore inappropriate for inclusion.
And the first few Google references to photostat are all American as well (mainly dictionaries), so also not appropriate for inclusion. 
Answered my own question! -- TrevorD 10:20, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

text: Indeed! Hermen---I'm very surprised by this! Technically, both Xerox and Photostat are Americanisms and both are trademarks, although the latter is genericized. It's well known that the Xerox Corporation never liked the use of its name as a regular word, although it still is used as such, and apparently a good deal more in the U.S. than in Britain, according also to cursory internet searches---I allow that this usage might be on the decrease, though. Photostat was originally a proprietary term for a particular type of copier, and seems to have a more uniform distribution if compared to Xerox. --JackLumber 12:07, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I quite agree that AmE often uses "xerox", but I don't think I have ever heard anyone use "photostat". Perhaps it is an outdated term. It appears that technically it refers to a different and much less commonly used procedure than the xeroxing so maybe that helps account for it rarity. For instance, photostat on Wikipedia redirects to photocopying with an extensive discussion of xerox but not a mention of photostat in the text. Rmhermen 14:43, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, outdated in the sense that ...until the 1960s, the easiest and most reliable way to get an accurate copy of an original was by using a Photostat camera. It is the size of an office copier, had to be used in a darkroom, and produced only black-and-white reproductions. The Photostat camera functions like a 35mm camera, but produces two images: one positive, one negative. One of the 10,000+ results for site:gov photostat. Google site:gov.uk photostat and you'll find 200-odd. I know I'm old-fashioned, I even say "point up the difference" and "that's where it's at"... --JackLumber 21:05, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Xerox&trade; 

message: Do Americans use this term? -- TrevorD 23:26, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: (speaking of shelters...) Not really. If I figured it out right, it looks like what I would consider a type of "public housing" or "supportive housing" for the elderly, or maybe "assisted living." But the adjective "sheltered" often means, in the U.S., protected from taxes (as in "tax sheltered account"). I know however of "sheltered workshops" for people with disabilities.  JackLumber, 12:04, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sheltered housing 

message: I've added ToCs at each letter heading as an experiment to improve navigation.  If this is generally thought to be useful, I'll add similar ones to the related articels.  Please comment. -- TrevorD 12:03, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Contents 

message: ? i know its not that widely used anymore but it seems more british than american
:Done. --Adzz 01:18, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Crumpet

message: As it happens, I'd never encountered the term "Raised Pavement Marker" until I read this article and its complement, "List of American words not widely used in the UK." I have heard (and use personally) "Cat's eye" exclusively. This could very well be regional, as I live in the New York area, where certain other linguistic forms often ascribed to British usage do tend to prevail. For example, I grew up hearing "floor" used to refer to either an indoor or outdoor surface, but in most parts of the US, "ground" is used almost exclusively when describing an outdoor surface; floor is reserved for indoors. I'm sure "Raised pavement marker" probably exists in the US as a technical term or perhaps part of a trend towards literally descriptive, rather than evocative, language (the Xerox discussion above comes to mind, as I have always used "Xerox" or, less frequently "copy," but "photocopy" has become surprisingly common in my recent observation...this could, again be regional, as I never heard "photocopy" so much as after enrolling at New York University and encountering students from other parts of the country on a regular basis). At any rate, I'm not convinced that "Cat's eye" is a specifically British term. Can anyone clarify?--Mjj237 16:47, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Cat's eye 

message: How about that Medico80 11:36, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Gig?

message: rubber johnny
cuppa
knacker [ weak ] versus knocker
plonk
skew whiff, skew-whiff,
skewed, uneven, not straight,
need two redirects?
{Anything else on:
life on Mars %28TV_series%29,
other bbc shows.}
I feel that these should have improved disambiguation, & improved redirects.
Thank You.
Hopiakuta 11:15, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  How about?: 

message: I just editted the entry for "berk" on the main page, since I was under the impression the phrase came from Berkeley Hunt, not the previously mentioned "Berkshire Hunt".  Further googling has shown there to be doubt about the origins, citing both Berkeley and Berkshire.  The rest of wikipedia, however, cites Berkeley as the source.  I'll leave it as is, but ask the main contributors to think about whether to revert, leave as is, or cite both possible sources of the word.  Carre 18:45, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Cite both, referencing the doubt. Cheers! WLD 18:53, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Done - Chambers cites only Berkeley, but the OED cites both, which is good enough for me :)  Carre 09:14, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Berk 

message: According to the article, "balls-up" comes from "an old horseman's term referring to when the hooves get packed with snow". I can't find any evidence for this other than Wikipedia and copies thereof, and I'm just slightly wondering if it might be dubious folk etymology, or even a hoax. I'm really not sure though, and it may well be just fine. Does anyone have any further info? Matt 13:02, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a Victorian bowdlerization per Hugh Rawson's Devious Derivations, among other books. The Victorians loved to make up "clean" origins for words that had blindingly obvious "dirty" origins. --Charlene 09:00, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Great, thanks for sorting that one out. Matt 14:13, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Balls-up 

message: According to the article: 
; grotty : disgusting, dirty, grotesque (as elaborated by George Harrison in "A Hard Days' Night")
Does anyone have any clue what the "Hard Days' Night" reference means? Matt 20:01, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Bit of a late response... but at a guess, I'd say it was reference to the Beatles film of the same name!  Surely you've heard of the Beatles?  Although I'm surprised it's such a recent addition to the language.  Carre 19:37, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, I'm not asking who George Harrison was, or what "A Hard Day's Night" refers to. I'm asking what is the connection between the song or film (whichever is meant) and the BrE meaning of the word "grotty". What is the "elaboration" referred to? Matt 20:07, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Yah, sorry - I was being unnecessarily flippant, and apologise.  Check out this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5siPP7K4r8 - hopefully all will become clear.  It's not really an "elaboration", but does give a cultural reference;  Chambers also indicates that the word came into common parlance in the 60s, so the clip, film, and Beatles link is relevant.  Carre 18:29, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  Right. I think that few people would be familiar enough with the film to understand the reference without further explanation, so I have added some. Please feel free to amend as you see fit. Matt 14:12, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Grotty 

message: ; guff : (informal) extraneous or useless things, ideas, or paperwork/documentation; also to break wind ("Have you guffed, Dr Watson?") 
Does anyone understand the Dr Watson reference? The only Dr Watson I've heard of is Sherlock Holmes' sidekick. Is it just meant to be humorously incongruous? Matt 20:13, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Guff 

message: Is "shag" ever used in the United States? Shag as in to have sex, to shag someone or to have a shag.
:Some Americans vaguely know what it means because of Austin Powers, but otherwise it's never used. "Shag" in the US is a haircut or a type of carpet. They likely would not understand "have a shag". --Charlene 09:02, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: *If it's a haircut or type of carpet (or waterfowl, tobacco or dance), then it's used in the US and doesn't belong on this list. AlexTiefling 09:07, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree, it should be on the list of words with different meanings instead. Ben W Bell talk 12:12, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shag 

message: These are widely used in the US, especially since 9/11/2001, and sold and installed using this term. The words should be dropped from the list. Edison 15:18, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Bollard

message: I've heard Britons refer to an empty teacup as being "dead" on numerous occasions, but I don't think Americans use (or even are aware) of this construction. Is this something that could be added? --Charlene 00:09, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: "Dead", in terms of a drink/cup/glass is fairly common, especially concerning drinks and glasses in pubs.  When bar staff come around collecting empties, they generally leave glasses with some drink left in them.  A common comment to said bar staff would be "that's dead", thereby informing the bar person that the non-empty glass can be removed too. Carre 19:41, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Added to the Different meanings page. Tevildo 03:10, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: in the US a "dead solider" is an empty beer bottle, so the analogy has crossed the pond. GCW50 13:07, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Dead teacup

message: Is the word "duff", meaning bad/faulty/broken used in the US?  Thought about it reading the list, and seeing "gen" in there (for intelligence), and remembering time with the RAF where it was common to use terms such as "duff gen" for false intelligence, and "no duff" to indicate that a report, for example, is accurate. Carre 20:18, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ...or in the phrases "up the duff" (pregnant) or 'to duff someone up" (to punch), for that matter. Grutness...wha? 00:38, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

text: "Duff" is used, but it means something completely different and likely belongs on the other list. "Duff" means "rear end", and is an extremely mild term - a Sunday school teacher could use it in class without any surprise. --Charlene 08:31, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Duff 

message: I've noticed recently that our friends across the pond are using the word "wanker" - and in its British sense (that is, "person deserving of contempt"). If this carries on it'll have to come off the list. Bugger. Totnesmartin 04:00, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It was used a fair amount in my highschool, and I recall it being used on at least one American TV show. However, I'm not sure if it qualifies as "widely used". Koweja 04:11, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Wanker (bet someone edits this header!) 

message: I don't think either of these terms is widely used in the US, but I'd like other opinions: ISTR that the hard plastic "perspex" is called something completely different in the US, and I don't think prat (i.e., idiot, and as part of the verb phrase 'to prat about") is used other than as part of the word pratfall. Grutness...wha? 00:35, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Perspex is Plexiglas (see Acrylic glass). Prat is unfamiliar to me. Rmhermen 01:06, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Perspex is strictly British as in "The Spitfire had a Perspex windscreen".  US would say Plexiglass.  BTW, in the US, an aircraft has a windscreen but an automobile has a windshield. GCW50 17:45, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I'm an American that has never even heard the word perspex before. Seems like it should be added. SirBob42 23:44, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Perspex; Prat

message: Shouldn't cellotape be sellotape? Chambers seems to agree with me. Dpmarshall 17:55, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Sellotape

message: Firstly, "Pukka" definitely wasn't made famous by Jamie Oliver. The word gained national popularity in the early 1980s when Delboy used it frequently on Only Fools and Horses (more than 15 years before Jamie Oliver said it on TV). Pukka was commonly used in London before the 1980s, but it was Delboy that made it famous nationally. The famous Pukka Pies company have used that name since 1963 as well.
Secondly, this is a good list but the inclusion of regional/localized slang detracts from it. If a word is not even widely used in the UK then obviously it won't be widely used in the United States either. And the heading says "British words" which implies words that are used all over Britain. 
As it stands much of the list could also come under a heading List of British words not widely used in the United Kingdom, which would be silly. 172.141.34.240 20:08, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Just to point out - "pukka" was very common in the 80s. The 1880s. It's old Anglo-Indian slang and has been around since at least 1857. It died out after the war and Indian independence. Jamie Oliver and Delboy only brought it back. --Charlene 06:48, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Pukka and regional slang

message: These are common enough in the USA that they should be dropped:  blotto, burgle, cashier (supermarket sense), cash mashine, cinema, one-off, postman/postwoman, spliff, tits up, turn indicator. 
Also windscreen and windshield should be moved to whatever page trapezoid and trapezium are on.
-- Randall Bart 09:35, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Not so rare in the US 

message: The following entry has just been removed, with the edit summary "removed rubbish": broody: (informal) desiring to have children, typically a perjorative term used to describe single women 'of a certain age'.
Is it "rubbish" because (a) it is in fact used to mean that in the USA as well as in the UK, or (b) because it's not used in the UK, or (c) because User:Franko2nd doesn't like the word? The only valid reason for removal would be (a). It is a valid BrEng usage, and (IMHO) worthy of inclusion unless it's also used with that meaning in AmEng. Snalwibma 23:56, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It may be better to put it in the List of Words that Mean Different Things article. Although it's not a commonly used term in the city, it's very well-known in the country in the US, and almost always is used in relation to chickens. --Charlene 14:51, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Broody

message: IIRC, the word tortoise has only very limited use in the US, with both tortoises and turtles (and terrapins, for that matter) being called "turtles" in all but very rare circumstances. is this worth adding to the list? Grutness...wha? 22:50, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Tortoise

message: Recently added. Surely not! Is it really in reasonably widespread use in BrE? How far down the nonce-coinage/slang/dialect route should this article go? This looks like one to delete. Snalwibma 22:03, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Buns

message: There is an entry for carriageway on its own, seperate from dual-carriageway, which gives lane as the US equivalent. I have two concerns about this:
1. Is Carriageway really uncommon in the US? I am sure the Highway Capacity Manaual uses the  term carriageway.
2. Even if Carriageway is not used in American English I don't think lane would be the equivalent. I am pretty sure lane refers to the same thing in both the US and the UK.
Could an american possibly offer their opinionSkorponokX 22:57, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Well carriageway and lane are not the same thing anyway. A carriageway is a distinct section of road that carries traffic. Most roads are single carriageway, but they actually have two lanes of traffic one in each direction. A dual carriageway doesn't mean two lanes, it means two completely separate sections of road with a physical separation between them such as a stretch of grass or a barrier. Dual carriageways can have multiple lanes in each direction, I've seen up to seven, or as little as one in each direction. It's a common misconception that it refers to the number of lanes. Ben W Bell talk 07:12, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I am aware of the meaning of the various terms. The article seems to imply that Americans don't use the word carriageway but instead use the term lane to describe the same thing. I was questioning wheter this was in fact the case as I was under the impression it was not.SkorponokX 13:00, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The only use of the word carriageway in the US I know of is in Acadia National Park, but there it's a path reserved just for horse drawn carriages. GCW50 17:42, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Carriageway

message: I have again deleted this. It is not a different word, just a spelling difference relating to a single part of a word in common, and in fact a reflection of a much wider difference between AmE and BrE. If we list spelt, we should also list leapt, smelt, dived, not to mention neighbour... The spelt/spelled difference is covered in American_and_British_English_differences, here. As for whether whilst should be included - a stronger case than spelt, maybe, but I'm also a bit doubtful! Snalwibma 12:24, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "Spelt" does not belong here

message: Deleting this because it is used in American English, albet with a different meaning. Already apperas on List of words having different meanings in British and American English. SirBob42 22:50, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Hole-in-the-Wall

message: Both of these definitions were incorrect. My main references for both are a) Hugh Rawson's book Devious Derivations, and b) William Safire's Take My Word For It. The POSH definition is a very well-known urban legend per the above books and this snopes.com article. "Pukka" dates to about 100 years before Jamie Oliver was born according to Rawson. Oliver popularized it in this century, but he sure didn't invent or import it - it's an old Imperial term. --Charlene 03:09, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Pukka and POSH

message: So he is, to be sure, but does he belong in this list? It's a list of words, not phrases, and I think Bob should probably be shown the door. If we allow in idiomatic phrases like this there'll be no end to it. Yes, I realise bubble and squeak is already there - which is why I'm posting this as a comment rather than just summarily deleting old Bob. Snalwibma 16:00, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Bob's your uncle