Talk:Armenia–Turkey relations

message: Can someone get hold of some Non-Armenian, Non-Turkish Non-POV academics to sort out this mess? This whole edit page is risible but at least shows up the warring state of mind between the two sides. Simon Hare  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.143.6.76 (talk) 15:47, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: Look I know that emotions run high on both sides, but let's not forget that we have to back things up... PLS Baristarim 12:15, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Proof Needed 

message: Have a look at the changes I made and tell me what you think... I have tried to enrich the article.. I made many grammatical corrections, expanded the explanation of certain details and ALSO tried to calm certain things down. I HAVE NOT however tried to change the essence of the article to the best of my abilities, including some, let's say 'thorny' issues.
On the other hand, I see this article as an opportunity to not always see the glass as half-empty.. Pls reply and let me know of what you think...
And don't revert directly if you want to change something I wrote!!! I have made grammatical corrections at the same time, so pls look carefully at what you want to change. Peace people!!! Baristarim 12:45, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  During Ottoman rule 

message: Hey Baristarim, thanks for the help and nice editing. About Mimar Sinan, it is arguable but the fact that he came from an armenian populated village and was a christian really narrows it down. It is said he used to go by the name Minan Armen Sinanian (Armen being an armenian name). Other people say that there is a possibility he was greek too. That's why we should just leave it a disputed claim.
Fedayee 11:26, 2 September 2006 (Montreal Time) (UTC)
:: In Turkish, Mimar means architect.. Mimar Sinan means Architect Sinan. Because Sinan is architect. You say me that "Minan Armen" comes together and turns into "Mimar" which means architech. I congurulate you.  you made up it youself? good imagination. I am tired of discussing with armenians, really!!.. They only know how to make propoganda and insult us.. In Turkey, I know some armenian People and they are perfect. but here in wikipedia, they make me crayz..
Ok, no problems.. I am cool with that.. Even in Turkey there have been such claims I believe. As long as it is cited it's alright.. Baristarim 16:42, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: For Armenians, everyone who was famous in Anatolia was Armenian. They dont care the reality, they just claim. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lardayn (talk • contribs) 12:35, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Mimar Sinan 

message: I have read again and again over the past 24 hours that "the countries have no diplomatic relations".  I am tired of reading something that, while true, does not explain at all why and I have fixed it in this article at least.  There are no diplomatic relations because Turkey refuses to have them.  Period.  At the time of independence, poor little Armenia was starving to death and never made any land claims on Turkey.  Turkey insisted that Armenia revoke their land claims before establishing relations.  Sounds like paranoia to me.  Then they changed the demand to withdrawing from Karabakh (yes, the same country that has invaded and remained in Cyprus for 30 years!).  They also have warned Armenia not to push the genocide recognition internationally.  Armenia has again and again and again replied to Turkey that they want diplomatic relations and an open border, without preconditions.  That they should have relations with their neighbor and work out issues simultaneously.  This is what happened, this is how it was, and this is the whole story.  This is what the article needs to reflect because there is a black and white in this case and this is it.  --RaffiKojian 16:08, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: That is correct, Armenia has never made a claim of land on Turkey since independence.  How can I give a reference to that when it never happened?  You can certainly read the constitution which was adopted in 1995 and is available on a few sites and see it is not there for example.  Armenia gets economic investment and military support from Russia, and a great deal of remittances and aid from the Armenian Diaspora - though the significance of that to this article is not too clear to me.  --RaffiKojian 15:07, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Diplomatic relations 

message: Kars treaty is there an Armenian document (government) that declares the borders between these states are recognized? What would be the legality issues regarding the Armenian constitution calling for Genocide? --OttomanReference 03:07, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I assume you mean genocide recognition!!! Also, I don't think countries as a matter of policy declare recognition of previous/ratified treaties signed by previous governments/regimes. --RaffiKojian 16:55, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Actually Armenia does recognize the Treaty of Kars.  This was reaffirmed by Armenian Foreign Minister Vartan Oskanian on December 13, 2006.  As a legal successor to the Armenian SSR, Armenia has not made an issue of the treaty.  According to Oskanian, Turkey puts the Kars treaty into doubt by blockading Armenia and severing diplomatic ties with Armenia.  The treaty called for Turkey to open a consulate in each of the three Transcaucasian republics.  -- Aivazovsky 03:58, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kars treaty 

message: I am putting a POV-check tag, because of the intro - it is too short, as such it is way too POVish - it needs to be expanded to make it more encyclopedic. Generally intros should be two/three paragraphs - one sentence intro really doesn't sit right. So if someone could come in and check it for NPOV-ing, that would be nice :) Baristarim 07:58, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Just a follow-up note: I don't want to get into a grueling debate on the contents of the article, the tag that I had put was only for the intro for the time being. The intro should be at least two-three paragraphs and summarize the article. In its current state, because it is only one sentence, it looks odd to say the least - as far as I am concerned for the moment, when the intro is expanded, just remove the tag. Cheers! Baristarim 10:32, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ok, that's all that I wanted :) Baristarim 22:29, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV-check 

message: I completely removed the Yezidi reference, which has nothing to do with Armenian-Turkish anything, and was wrong to boot.  Yezidis are a Kurdish minority, whose religion is not Islam, but their own unique religion.  What does this have to do with Armenian Turkish relations?  The statement also said they are "diminishing", while all the reference said was that they had a very low rate of school attendance...  two completely different things.  Anyway, if someone wants to add them to this article, let them explain convincingly that there is any justification for their inclusion.  --RaffiKojian 15:59, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yezidis 

message: Im removing subheading made by Makalp on "Armenian Terror" it cites POV sources, innacurate, and consititutes original research. Hetoum 19:10, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I see, maybe we should put tags next to the disputed ones, then. At least cilicia.com should go, if for nothing else, for the fact that the text there is, I believe, copyrighted, I am not sure cilicia.com has the right to publish it. If someone has that article, just write what is written there, and the reference should be the article itself, not some copy. Also, aina reference can be replaced by the actual article from new anatolian. Please let's not have copies of some articles as references, we should find and refer to the original ones. denizTC 04:44, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

text: #19, case study in ethnic strife denizTC 23:06, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  ARMENIAN TERRORISM 

message: Please resolve the  before nominating. --Rschen7754 (T C) 05:43, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Failed GA

message: This article has a very Armenian perspective to it, and is thus not neutral. Something needs to be done about it. Runningfridgesrule (talk) 18:12, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Could you please be more specific? Most of the article is sourced with over 60 different references and whatever is questioned already has a citation tag. - Fedayee (talk) 19:39, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV 

message: In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :) 
* "GHF" :
** 
**  GlobalHeritageFund.org The Ties That Divide 
DumZiBoT (talk) 07:47, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bot report : Found duplicate references ! 

message: I do not mean to rehash what has been hashed forever here and everywhere, but permit me to say that this seems to be a strictly Armenian point of view of the relationship between the two countries.  
Secondly, relationship between the two peoples and states is often confused.  Also given that a State of Armenia did not exist before 1920 or so, the large volume of reference to previous centuries exposes the real intent of the propgandists.
While there is plenty mateiral about how and why Armenians feel what they feel towards the Turks and Turkey, the opposite is totally missing!  Even ASALA was not given a paragraph initially, with the incredible claim that most Armenians did not know about it and it was not really relevant!  Even the overt claims of land from Turkey by various Armenian leaders and scholars is disupted and has not found a proper place here.  
Here is my favorite:  While the freedom of expression in Turkey and such laws and their applications are examined in detail here, one hears nothing of the sort about such freedoms in Armenia!  What happens to anyone who does not toe the official line there?  What happened to the Turkish scholar who bought an old book from a street vendor in Armenia?--Murat (talk) 01:01, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The things you have been recently trying to get into the article are laughable. "Great Powers who were struggling among themselves about how to carve up the rapidly declining Ottoman Empire". Britain, France, Italy, Austria, and Germany were all engaged in propping up the Ottoman Empire throughout the 19th century - in the 1850s fighting on the side of the Ottoman Empire during the Crimean war, in the 1880s restoring and securing much of its territory through the Treaty of Berlin. And as for "Armenian Rebellions", inserting made-up stuff by genocide-denialists does you little credit. Meowy 20:06, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  Actually you display a laughable lack of understanding of the Great Power dynamics that Ottomans exploited so effectively to keep their Empire going for another century.  It is laughable becasue you throw yourself into these topics with such gusto.  British supported Turks during Crimean crisis becasue they were afraid of Russian gains in Ottoman lands.  Yiu thiught they loved Turks?  The balancing act worked until WWI, which among its root causes has the divisian of the Ottoman lands and what is left of it.  This is high school history stuff by the way.  But for a good treatment I highly recommend David Fromkin.  As for Armenian rebellions, are you suggesting they did not take place?  These pages are full of articles describing every single one of them!  Oh, I am sorry... they call them "defensive actions"!  How can such a significant and violent piece of history between the two people and Ottomans be amiss from an article with this title?  That is what is truly laughable.--Murat (talk) 04:57, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: So you now agree with me that during the 19th century various European Powers took action to support the Ottoman Empire in order to halt or minimise its collapse. That is the exact opposite of the text you wanted inserted. You claim that one of the root causes of WW1 was "the division of the Ottoman lands"! I think you should read some history books and discover that it was the Ottoman Empire that eagerly entered into the WW1 conflict on the side of Germany, and it did so because of its own expansionist aims. Before that, the Allies had tried to persuade the Ottoman Empire to remain neutral. Meowy 18:19, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text:  I do not think you are getting it.  Ottomans played various powers against each other for a long while.  Fear that Russia would get a hold of Straights was the reason for Britain and France supporting the Ottomans against Russians at various times.  They were protecting their "future" property and gains basically.  Ottomans also had to bribe them generously.  Britain and France and Italy had loaned much money at enormous interests that Ottomans could not pay, becasue they were fighting wars continuously.  So, they took over all income from railways, taxes, trade etc., so they gained tremeondous economic advantages, dimensions of this blood-scuking is hard to grasp today, and the process is called "capitulations" in our history books.  It is considered among the prime reasons for the collapse.  In any case, once there was nothing left to extract, then the question was who gets what of the carcass of the empire.  That was why they raced with each other to extend "protection" to various minorities to cultivate their future clients and it was also a good stick to beat the Turks with.  The so called humanitarian concerns provided a good cover for what was really going on.  Armenians exploited this situation the most as you well know.  Contrary to your claim, Turks did not really have much choice about WWI entry.  The government was very pro-British actually, they even begged them to take Turkey in as a mandate!  Churchill did not care for it much, he saw Ottomans as finished.  Among all the powers, Germans had the least designs on the Ottomans and were more neutral.  Though much is said of Enver's admiration for Germans, and he certainly had good reason to turst their victory, it was a bit more than that.  British were all determined to carve up Middle East, they did not need the Sultan and Enver did not have much of a say.--Murat (talk) 00:30, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Oh, your words are so funny, you must write comedy for a living! Either that or fantasy fiction. Where on earth do you get these ideas from? Meowy 20:28, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

text: You should leave that fake parallel universe behind once in a while and smell the roses.  All of the above is textbook knowledge.  The question is, how come you are so alien to topics you are so involved in.  Do I have to teach you people not just Armenian, but also Ottoman history?--Murat (talk) 00:59, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: "Textbook knowledge" found only in Turkish textbooks. Therein lies your problem, Murat. Meowy 21:12, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Armenian view: the only view 

message: There were many of them, and they have all been covered by numerous Wiki articles.  See Van Resistance, or Sasun, or Zeytun rebellions for example.  These were wtitten or edited by the same editors who are objectiong their mention here now.  These rebellions were among the main reasons for extreme measures against this population.  Armed revolts did take place no matter what the motivations, causes or explanations are. How can they not be relevant to this article?  I encourage any discussion here.--Murat (talk) 12:18, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Resistance is not a rebellion. Your sources are not neutral.-- Ευπάτωρ Talk!! 13:06, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

text: In fact it's time for Resistance during the Armenian Genocide.-- Ευπάτωρ Talk!! 16:17, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: The book An American Physician in Turkey clearly shows that the insurrection at Van was NOT a rebellion. This is a primary source. --Kansas Bear (talk) 21:17, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

text: More biased garbage from the anti-Armenian site: Tall Armenian Tale. You've proven nothing, except your inability to find unbiased sources. --Kansas Bear (talk) 16:18, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Armenian Rebellions 

message: This article, like many others, have been turned into a an Armenian propaganda piece.  It is hard for a casual reader to realize that this is actually  Turkish city, with a thousand year Seljuk-Ottoman-Turkish history.  Mostly  Armenian history and heritage has been included and all attempts to balance it have been thwarted by POV editors.  Various discussions above attest to this.  In addition, the tag idenfying the disputed nature of the article have been blatantly removed, though a statement that clearly forbids such removal without a resolution is part of the tag removed.--Murat (talk) 02:08, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I request that you provide a more detailed explanation with specific excerpts of the text that demonstrate the onesidedness of this article. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 02:26, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

text: This is an interesting Turkish POV interpretation of what was going on, but you should realize that Erick Feigl is only a useful person to quote in the "Hate Speech" article, or "Anti-Armenian Hatred" article, certainly not in any article requiring facts or scholarship.  It's also quite funny that you are accusing the Armenians, with their few instances of resisting massive oppression of bringing down the very empire that in the last section you argued was being propped up by England, France and the others.  You should research what exactly was going on in these towns, and how they were being treated and compelled to resist.  The truly incredible fact here, is that 99% of Armenians remained loyal and obedient sheep to the Ottoman Empire, actually.  In the context of mentioning the oppression Armenians were being subjected to (including the hundreds of thousands massacred during the 1890s), these towns can be mentioned, but not as more, not without dates showing what was being done in the towns and what was going on elsewhere first, and not without making it clear, these were three very isolated incidents.  If there were more, believe me, McCarthy would have written a book on them, and Turkey (and you) would be screaming about them at the top of your lungs.  You're trying to turn three very isolated incidents of resistance to unbearable treatment into an empire-wide rebellion.  It is patently untrue, and unfortunately for you, even if it were, it would not justify Armenian Genocide that you seem to want to make the logical conclusion of this chain of events.  Murat, I really wish you'd step out of your shoes to look at this issue, rather than try to just make Turkey look good, or it's actions justified.  What happened in 1915 was so evil, so wrong, so unjustified, that 94 years later Armenians are still dazed and confused by it.  Having to sit and argue with Turks who want to feel better about their history is really not helpful to such a battered people, and according to one of the top genocide scholars, the denial phase is the last phase of the genocide.  I'd never have guessed it could last this long, though.  --RaffiKojian (talk) 14:28, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The whole article is a mess, and thanks to recent edits it is getting worse rather than getting better. Meowy 01:11, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: And worse and worse and worse. Meowy 19:15, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Editor Murat, the main culprit for this article's lamentable state, has inserted  and reinserted a section titled "Armed Armenian Revolts Against Ottoman Rule", which is full of fabrications. There were no "Armed Armenian Revolts Against Ottoman Rule". Meowy 01:15, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disputed Objectivity 

message: The decline of the Ottoman Empire, in part was the result and in part the cause of spread of nationalism among various groups that made up the multi-ethnic and multi-religion Empire. Especially the Russo-Turkish War, which resulted in the formation of an independent Bulgaria, provided a model for other aspiring nationalists and revolutionaries. Hinchak and Dashnak, Armenian revolutionary committees were formed in Eastern provinces of the Ottoman Empire following the Berlin Treaty,which were very much under direct Russian threat.Louise Nalbandian,"The Armenian Revolutionary Movement", 1963 With direct and over military Russian support, a number of Armenian armed revolts against the Ottoman rule between 1890 and 1915.Mim Kemal Oke,"The Armenian Question, 1914-1923",1988 Among the most significant were Zeytun, Sasun, VanArmeninan Rebellion at Van, Justin McCarthy, 2006, University of Utah Press, pp 177-221 and Adana rebellions which cost Ottomans dearly as they were at the time already fighting major wars (Battle of Gallipoli, Battle of Mesopotamia) on multiple fronts and had no resources to spare or cope with these massive disturbances behind the front lines. Armenian attacks on Muslim towns which were already depleted of their male populations caused much death and destruction, aggravated the population, sped up the Ottoman Empire's chaotic disintigration and created ever-lasting animositiesErich Feigl,"A Myth of Terror: Armenian Terrorism, Its Causes and Historical Context"--Murat (talk) 17:45, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: This is an interesting Turkish POV interpretation of what was going on, but you should realize that Erick Feigl is only a useful person to quote in the "Hate Speech" article, or "Anti-Armenian Hatred" article, certainly not in any article requiring facts or scholarship.  It's also quite funny that you are accusing the Armenians, with their few instances of resisting massive oppression of bringing down the very empire that in the last section you argued was being propped up by England, France and the others.  You should research what exactly was going on in these towns, and how they were being treated and compelled to resist.  The truly incredible fact here, is that 99% of Armenians remained loyal and obedient sheep to the Ottoman Empire, actually.  In the context of mentioning the oppression Armenians were being subjected to (including the hundreds of thousands massacred during the 1890s), these towns can be mentioned, but not as more, not without dates showing what was being done in the towns and what was going on elsewhere first, and not without making it clear, these were three very isolated incidents.  If there were more, believe me, McCarthy would have written a book on them, and Turkey (and you) would be screaming about them at the top of your lungs.  You're trying to turn three very isolated incidents of resistance to unbearable treatment into an empire-wide rebellion.  It is patently untrue, and unfortunately for you, even if it were, it would not justify Armenian Genocide that you seem to want to make the logical conclusion of this chain of events.  Murat, I really wish you'd step out of your shoes to look at this issue, rather than try to just make Turkey look good, or it's actions justified.  What happened in 1915 was so evil, so wrong, so unjustified, that 94 years later Armenians are still dazed and confused by it.  Having to sit and argue with Turks who want to feel better about their history is really not helpful to such a battered people, and according to one of the top genocide scholars, the denial phase is the last phase of the genocide.  I'd never have guessed it could last this long, though.  --RaffiKojian (talk) 14:28, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: The whole article is a mess, and thanks to recent edits it is getting worse rather than getting better. Meowy 01:11, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: And worse and worse and worse. Meowy 19:15, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Editor Murat, the main culprit for this article's lamentable state, has inserted  and reinserted a section titled "Armed Armenian Revolts Against Ottoman Rule", which is full of fabrications. There were no "Armed Armenian Revolts Against Ottoman Rule". Meowy 01:15, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Armenian Rebellions

message: It is inappropriate for Kanasabear to claim references as fake automatically, but then again, that is his modus operanda as a dedicated pov editor on these pages.  I have specifically chosen an Armenian reference to make a point.  These referneces are well known, widely used and can be looked up easily.
"Armenian revolutionary committees were formed in Eastern provinces of the Ottoman Empire following the Berlin Treaty,which were very much under direct Russian threat..."
This is a general fact, general knowledge, and does not need a page reference as these references deal with the totality of this general information.  This is of course all consistent with general rules on the use of references.  What part of this may be fake, and why would anyone even need to fake any part of this statement?--Murat (talk) 17:32, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page Numbers 

message: It seems there is an intolerence by some editors to even the most blatant of cats concerning anything remotely related to this topic:
- Hrant was NOT an Armenian national, he was Turkish, and more specifically a Turkish-Armenian.  What part of this is being disputed?  The last verion of the edit warring seems to include this obvious error.
- ASALA was NOT engaged in paramilitary activity, it was a terrorist organization.  It pretty much wrote the book on terrorism, it killed close to 80 unarmed innocents in spectacular tarrorist attacks, it was condemned worldwide and labled officially a terrorist organization.  What part of this is being disputed?  What is paramilitary?  Military of which state?
- Armenian Nation Movement has been covered in countless Wikipedia articles in great redundant detail already.  This paragraph is about the armed Armenian actions against Ottomans. Wikipedia is filled with Armenian armed struggle details and related articles, what is the aversion to this title?  Such armed conflicts go to the core of the relations between the two nations, why try to distort and subvert it in an article like this?
Do not revert to faulty and incorrect data again.  At least have the courtesy to explain here.  --Murat (talk) 00:29, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I have removed the POV tag that was at the top of the article. A pov tag in that position is meant to imply that the whole article, or a very substantial part of it, may have POV issues. You are not claiming that, and there are already two POV tags covering subsections of the article you are mentioning. Meowy 17:27, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Disputed Facts 

message: No mention of ASALA assassinations or Hodjali Massacre? Another hilarious biased article in Wikipedia written and tightly controlled by diaspora Armenians.--Abuk SABUK (talk) 22:11, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Another irrelevant announcement on an article talk-page by a specific POV editor. Aregakn (talk) 20:45, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  ASALA and Hodjali Massacres 

message: A new section is hereby proposed and asked to be commented and discussed.
The content:
"After the meeting with UK Prime Minister Gordon Brown, Turkey's PM announced that Turkey may deport Armenians living in Turkey presently. The statement came after recent US House Committee and Swedish Parliament resolutions over the Armenian Genocide affirmation. He repeated the same statement in BBC interview right after telling, that there are 100,000 illegal Armenian citizens living in Turkey and that: 
The answer from the Armenian Prime Minister was, that this kind of threats remind Armenians of the Armenian Genocide and neither do they add to the relationships of 2 countries. The Parliament members were more strict, mentioning that Armenians will always stay in danger in Turkey until it doesn't recognise its own crimes. The rhetoric also included mentioning Turkey's own illegal migrants in other countries and what would its reaction be, if those were threatened to be expelled.
The exact number of illegal Armenians in Turkey is unknown, but the estimation is only 12,000 - 13,000  which contradicts to the Turkish Prime Ministers numbers."
I propose to conduct it with the events concerning Hrant Dink and write it in a separate paragraph under "Intolerance towards Armenians in Turkey". 
Ideas and comments?Aregakn (talk) 20:51, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  New section 

message: When it comes to the Armenian Genocide, it is very relevant to this article, including the denial of it. However, I can't see any connection in some parts that relates it. I am thinking about the sections "Elie Wiesel affirmation of the Armenian Genocide" and "Nobel Laureate genocide re-affirmation". Most of it are at Armenian Genocide denial and The Holocaust Industry where they belong.
I also looked up the source about "Abdullah Gül, responded by reaffirming calls for a committee of Turkish and Armenian historians to re-examine the events of 1915" and it doesn't say Gül made such a response. However, that Armenia wanted to "establish diplomatic ties with Turkey without preconditions and create a joint government commission to discuss Armenian deaths at the hands of Ottoman Turks in 1915" is relevant to this article about the relations between the two countries but has nothing to do with "the Elie Wiesel Foundation for Humanity produced a letter signed by 53 Nobel Laureates re-affirming the Genocide Scholars' conclusion that the 1915 killings of Armenians constituted genocide".
In short: remove the section "Elie Wiesel affirmation of the Armenian Genocide". The first part is already at Armenian Genocide denial. The next part could be added there too. Of the section "Nobel Laureate genocide re-affirmation", rewrite the part about calls for establishing a commission and the part about the opposition by the Armenian people to that. Move the rest to Armenian Genocide denial and if the part about the opposition by Armenians is not there, that too could be added there. --IRISZOOM (talk) 15:27, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  What is the relevance of the genocide affirmation? 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Armenia–Turkey relations. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070715220653/http://www.todayszaman.com:80/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=108029 to http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=108029
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20081204091748/http://www.reporter.am:80/pages/2008-09-13/gul%20in%20yerevan.html to http://reporter.am/pages/2008-09-13/gul%20in%20yerevan.html
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello. I have created the aforementioned article. I believe these protocols are specific enough to have their own article here, while also allowing to reduce the lenght of Armenia-Turkey relations article, which is perhaps too long.
So I have copied entire sections from here (starting from 2.3.6 and finishing at 2.4.8)and pasted them at Zurich Protocols. 
If you agree, we could summarize/delete now those sections here while indicating that the Main Article is Zurich Protocols. I could do that myself, if you'd like.
Then there would be the issue of one existing section (2.4.4) which I did not copy because it would be rather off-topic at Zurich Protocols. We should probably keep that one here.
Let me know your thoughts. MOUNTOLIVE  fedeli alla linea 18:07, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I have proceeded. In fact, much more could still be removed from here (because it's already at the main article, Zurich Protocols) but I prefer to err on the side of caution. Hope you guys find it acceptable. MOUNTOLIVE  fedeli alla linea 22:17, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: [[Zurich Protocols]]

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to  on Armenia–Turkey relations. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add  after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add  to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20120927220020/http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=801 to http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=801
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20110717065717/http://todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=153022 to http://todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=153022
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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Armenia–Turkey relations. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060416082159/http://www.genocidewatch.org/TurkishPMIAGSOpenLetterreArmenia6-13-05.htm to http://www.genocidewatch.org/TurkishPMIAGSOpenLetterreArmenia6-13-05.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060416082159/http://www.genocidewatch.org/TurkishPMIAGSOpenLetterreArmenia6-13-05.htm to http://www.genocidewatch.org/TurkishPMIAGSOpenLetterreArmenia6-13-05.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060416082159/http://www.genocidewatch.org/TurkishPMIAGSOpenLetterreArmenia6-13-05.htm to http://www.genocidewatch.org/TurkishPMIAGSOpenLetterreArmenia6-13-05.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080703184136/http://www.ictj.org/en/news/coverage/article/935.html to http://www.ictj.org/en/news/coverage/article/935.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070710135851/http://www.eliewieselfoundation.org/PressReleases/TurkishArmenianReconciliation.pdf to http://www.eliewieselfoundation.org/PressReleases/TurkishArmenianReconciliation.pdf
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 17:33, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified  on Armenia–Turkey relations. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070202125337/http://www.arfshant.org/index.aspx?PAGEACTION=Home to http://www.arfshant.org/index.aspx?PAGEACTION=Home
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 06:25, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 10 external links on Armenia–Turkey relations. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070926234003/http://www.omroep.nl/human/tv/muur/artikel_chgo1.htm to http://www.omroep.nl/human/tv/muur/artikel_chgo1.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070812014301/http://jurist.law.pitt.edu:80/world/turkey.htm to http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/World/turkey.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070828202225/http://www.americanthinker.com:80/2007/08/congress_must_recognize_the_ar.html to http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/08/congress_must_recognize_the_ar.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090103205755/http://users.ids.net:80/~gregan/lemd_fr.html to http://users.ids.net/~gregan/lemd_fr.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090103205750/http://users.ids.net:80/~gregan/dec_eng.html to http://users.ids.net/~gregan/dec_eng.html
*Added  tag to http://arama.hurriyet.com.tr/arsivnews.aspx?id=-531437
*Added  tag to http://arama.hurriyet.com.tr/arsivnews.aspx?id=-519816
*Added  tag to http://arama.hurriyet.com.tr/arsivnews.aspx?id=-531437
*Added  tag to http://arama.hurriyet.com.tr/arsivnews.aspx?id=-527670
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080703000000/http://www.ictj.org/en/news/coverage/article/935.html to http://www.ictj.org/en/news/coverage/article/935.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071017095019/http://norharevanner.am:80/news.php?cont=3&rg=2&date=21.12.2006&month=13&year=2006 to http://www.norharevanner.am/news.php?cont=3&rg=2&date=21.12.2006&month=13&year=2006
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080402113556/http://www.aztagdaily.com:80/EnglishSupplement/NEWS_12042006_0001.htm to http://www.aztagdaily.com/EnglishSupplement/NEWS_12042006_0001.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070930165245/http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=65457 to http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=65457
*Added  tag to http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=172663
*Added  tag to http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=172598
*Added  tag to http://www.armeniandiaspora.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-73606.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20091227201912/http://www.iss.europa.eu/nc/actualites/actualite/article/a-new-era-in-turkish-armenian-relations/ to http://www.iss.europa.eu/nc/actualites/actualite/article/a-new-era-in-turkish-armenian-relations/
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 03:52, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 8 external links on Armenia–Turkey relations. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-turkey-armenia4-2009apr04%2C0%2C3309217.story
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/World/turkey.htm
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=801
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070927152408/http://www.abhaber.com/news_page.asp?id=3306 to http://www.abhaber.com/news_page.asp?id=3306
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.spiegel.de/international/0%2C1518%2C353274%2C00.html
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.norharevanner.am/news.php?cont=3&rg=2&date=21.12.2006&month=13&year=2006
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.aztagdaily.com/EnglishSupplement/NEWS_12042006_0001.htm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070205085530/http://www.radikal.com.tr/haber.php?haberno=211902 to http://www.radikal.com.tr/haber.php?haberno=211902
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 08:35, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  External links modified