Talk:Wireless telegraphy

message: what are the effects of telegraphy on society???
Hertz was not early 1800s: should this be someone else, or is it just a too-loose use of 'early', i.e. Hertz was earlier than Tesla?
Most webpages I found about Lindsay were just proud claims made for a local man without any support. The one I added tends to debunk Lindsay's electric light work as likely repeating dead-end efforts others made 25 years earlier, and has references. Yes, a wire glows when you pass a lot of amperage through it . Volta demonstrated that around 1800. If you crank up the amperage to get a bright light, it burns out in a few minutes. I have not yet found a webpage which does a careful analysis of his wireless work, but at this point it sounds like a case of boosterism which needs some supporting documentation. This is not to say he was not exceptionally intelligent and creative to have been experimenting with electricity at all in the 1830's.Edison 05:47, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Comments

message: Being knowledgeable in the subject, I plan to remove the 'expert needed' banner.  I think the article is better than a start article and would invite anyone to provide criticism of why it is deficient or suggestions on what is expected of this article.  In my opinion, signaling through dirt and signaling through water were not mainstream topics of wireless telegraphy, they were almost irrelevant to wireless telegraphy.  The mainstream was electromagnetic wave signaling, the birth of radio, and with it, the birth of electronics.  It is not clear we can get into that very deeply because it is so well covered in other articles.  Maybe some expect too much of this subject?  Comments?  
John (talk) 04:58, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Remove expert needed banner? 

message: Spider90us (talk) 00:48, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree that Karl Ferdinand Braun's invention of the "cat's whisker" point contact diode was very important in the early progress of wireless telegraphy, and even worked as a detector for early voice transmission. The Wikipedia article has some references you might use to add an appropriate mention of Braun in this article. Fortunately, Wikipedia is the "encyclopedia anyone can edit," so feel free to add something about Braun. Edison (talk) 00:56, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Ferdinand Braun 

message: Wow, right now, this is a dog's breakfast. Little organization, disjointed chronology, stuff that doesn't make sense.
E.g., "He also proposed that intelligence — transmitted without wires — transmission through the Earth and to establish the physical mechanism of such a circuit":  WTF???
I did some copy-editing, but I didn't know enough about the subject to "be bold."
Somebody who both (1) writes grammatical English and (2) knows something about electricity and its application to wireless telegraphy is desperately needed.VaneWimsey (talk) 07:15, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copy-editing needed 

message: The lead paragraph makes two questionable assertions. 
::Wireless telegraphy dates as far back as Faraday in the early 19th century, when it was discovered that radio waves could be used to send telegraph messages. 
Radio waves weren't discovered until long after Faraday died. Michael Faraday and Joseph Henry discovered magnetic induction around the same time (1831). The use of magnetic induction to send telegraph messages wasn't demonstrated until the 1880s.
::After James Clerk Maxwell had predicted the existence of electromagnetic waves, and had shown that their speed of propagation is identical with that of light, it required, in reality, very little to demonstrate by experiment the existence of such waves.
This is way off. A number of prominent investigators spent years trying to prove Maxwell's theory. Helmholtz challenged Hertz to come up with the proof, but at first Hertz could not think of any experiments. It was only after Hertz noticed he was able to produce effects that could not be explained by magnetic induction that he suspected he was dealing with radiating electromagnetic waves. Hertz was working with very primitive technology and proving Maxwell's theory required very clever and careful work. He had to show that it wasn't already known effects such as magnetic induction, and then he had to show quite clearly the wave nature of the phenomenon. Claudeb (talk) 20:33, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Period 1838-1897 

message: This article, and particularly the introduction, way overemphasizes a bunch of unimportant dead-end technologies like ground conduction, electrostatic and electromagnetic systems, giving them WP:UNDUE WEIGHT at the expense of the current meaning of the term "wireless telegraphy", which is radio wave telegraphy.    Besides signal light ("blinker light") Morse code, which was widely used by naval vessels but was never called "wireless telegraphy", these systems were never more than experimental prototypes that didn't catch on.  The meaning of the term "wireless telegraphy" from about 1905 on was "radiotelegraphy", the transmission of telegraphy by radio waves, and that is its meaning today. , , , ,     The definition in the lead sentence is overinclusive and should be changed to reflect that.
The body of the article is mostly devoted to these non-notable systems, and omits most of the technology of radiotelegraphy, which was a very important industry used to transmit most long distance military, diplomatic and commercial messages until WW2.  Stuff which should be included: the different modulation methods which were used to transmit code; damped wave, continuous wave (CW) and FSK, how code transmitters worked, the difference between grid modulation and plate modulation, the use of the BFO, "break in" operation, paper tape code readers and siphon recorders, international regulations, the Q codes.  This should be the main focus of the article. --ChetvornoTALK 17:30, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, afk for a while. Agree radiotelegraphy should have larger coverage. The article in its current state is just whats left after all non-"wireless telegraphy" was removed. I would think expansion should fix the WP:UNDUE. The historical non-radio systems should be described at their fullest here because this is the prime topic article, other articles should just summarize this one. There may be a case for radiotelegraphy having its own article and/or moving this article to "History of wireless telegraphy". Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 01:18, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Undue weight on nonradio systems and inaccurate lead sentence 

message: This is misleading as written. Spark transmitters do not make "musical tones" in receivers; they make buzzing noises. "Musical tones" are made when so-called "continuous wave" transmissions are received by a receiver equipped with a beat-frequency oscillator ("BFO"). Suggest a change to reflect this.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.77.219.136 (talk) 18:10, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: There were different spark transmitter systems. The average amateur spark transmitter produced a buzz, but later manufacturers attempting to increase the range realized that higher pitched, more musical tones could be heard through atmospheric noise better.  In synchronous rotary spark gap transmitters the spark wheel was rotated by a synchronous motor synched with the AC sine wave from the HV transformer applied to the capacitors, so the spark rate (several thousand Hz) was a multiple of the AC line frequency and produced harmonics with it, producing what was described as a "musical" note.  Shipboard quenched spark transmitters also often used a motor-alternator to power the HV transformer with a frequency of 500 Hz, so the spark rate was 1000 Hz. --ChetvornoTALK 14:00, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Section on spark transmission and reception 

message: "The first practical radio transmitters and receivers invented in 1894–1895 by Guglielmo Marconi used radiotelegraphy."
This is highly disputable as Guglielmo Marconi did not invent any wireless (radio) equipment whatsoever. He only commercially exploited it. His early spark transmitters were direct copies of Heinrich Hertz's. His later, more efficient transmitters, using the "tank circuit" were stolen from Nikola Tesla. His early receivers, the Coherer, were invented by a number of people. The Magnetic detector, which his name is attached to, was not actually invented by him. (Electronics Notes)
This (Tesla) and many other web pages affirm that Marconi stole much of his technology from Tesla and got away with it because of power and money.
User:122.60.89.238 17:13, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: The context is "radio communication" (please read previous sentence). Hertz didn't think radio waves were good for anything and Tesla considered them worthless for communication. The person to conceive of, and bring all these devices together for, a practical communication system was Marconi. Anonymous stuff on the web can be pretty misleading, I would suggest reliable sources. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 20:01, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree.  The reason Marconi is credited with the invention of practical radio is he was one of the only people who believed that radio waves could be used for long distance communication, and between 1894 and 1901 developed Hertz's apparatus into a practical distance communication system.   Other scientists of the time believed radio waves only traveled in straight lines like light, so were limited by the visual horizon.  He is the first person known to have transmitted information (Morse code) by radio; other contemporary wireless researchers like Jagadish Chandra Bose, Alexander Popov, and Oliver Lodge could have done this, but they were not interested in communication so they just transmitted random pulses.  Marconi did invent one essential component of radio, the grounded vertical wire monopole antenna. This reduced the frequency of his waves from the very high frequency range other researchers were using, which were limited to line-of-sight, to the medium frequency range, which enabled him to be first to transmit radio waves beyond the horizon.  He was first to transmit across water,  and the first to achieve transatlantic transmission.  Jointly with Karl Ferdinand Braun, he received the 1909 Nobel physics prize for his radio work. --ChetvornoTALK 19:40, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Guglielmo Marconi 

message: My feeling is your  recent edits on modern use of radiotelegraphy are somewhat  misleading.  VOR beacons don't require knowledge of radiotelegraphy to use, they just  transmit their 3 letter identifier in Morse code.  Most pilots don't know Morse and look up the "dot-dash" code if they do not know it by ear.   Also, most military training in Morse code is for signal lamp use, not radiotelegraphy. --ChetvornoTALK 19:25, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: It's a bit rich demanding sources for Chetvorno's talk page comment when your statement about VOR in the article is entirely unsourced.  It is your responsible to cite the material you have added, not Chetvorno's responsibility to show something different.  The WP:BURDEN policy says .  I can confirm from experience that there is absolutely no morse training needed for a private pilot license, but I don't know about a commercial license.  I also agree that there is no need to know morse to use a VOR beacon.  It is not even necessary to look up the morse ID of the beacon.  Each VOR broadcasts at a frequency unique to it in that area and those frequencies are marked on air navigation charts.  If you are flying towards the wrong beacon because you don't know morse, then you are an idiot who can't read a map and do basic navigation - a somewhat more serious problem. SpinningSpark 09:31, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Recent edits on modern use 

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