Talk:RAND Corporation

message: Is there a reason why the project was named RAND? Does it stand for anything? (Random Article Naming Device, for example) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.168.11.165 (talk) 02:30, 27 April 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: try reading the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.29.137.16 (talk) 23:49, 27 April 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, the explanation is near the beginning of the article. RAND is an acronym, unlike the name MITRE corporation, which is a near-acronym but actually was selected because it looks and sounds appropriate in a very nice way: linking it to a cabinet-maker's or carpenter's mitre box - used for making fine, detailed work.98.67.161.223 (talk) 23:01, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think the explanation of the origin of the name "RAND" in the article is incorrect.  It is often stated as Research ANd Development, as in this article.  But the name actually was created to mean "Research and NO Development."  See my comment above.PBCal (talk) 23:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text:  According to a footnote on page 4 of the book Soldiers of Reason by  Alex Abella, the "No" was sometimes added by jokesters; it was not in the original or official name. See also http://www.rand.org/about/history.html.  A conclusively reliable contradictory source is needed before considering stating otherwise in this Wikipedia article. RCraig09 (talk) 03:57, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

text: Although it is true that ctrl-f for "acro" finds zero results in the current version as of this writing, the first 5 words of the article are "RAND Corporation (Research ANd Development)". ;-) — ¾-10 23:06, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Where does the name come from ? 

message: Re: Category:Organizations and people who predicted the collapse of the USSR
Quote:
In 1968 Egon Neuberger predicted that "[t]he centrally planned economy eventually would meet its demise, because of its demonstrably growing ineffectiveness as a system for managing a modernizing economy in a rapidly changing world."20 
20. Egon Neuberger, "The Legacies of Central Planning," RM 5530-PR, Rand, June 1968, quoted in Gertrude E. Schroeder, "Reflections on Economic Sovietology," Post-Soviet Affairs 11 (July–September 1995): 197–234.
From:  3 Reviews
Signed:Travb 07:43, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Organizations and people who predicted the collapse of the USSR

message: Are there similar organisations in other countries? I think it'd be an interesting addition to the article, if any exist.--Anchoress 01:13, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, but nothing of comparable size or influence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.136.22.107 (talk) 07:01, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Also similar to RAND, but in the United States, also, are the MITRE Corporation and the MIT Lincoln Laboratories. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.67.161.223 (talk) 23:04, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Similar organisations in other countries 

message: To make this entry consistent with similar entries on other non-profit entities, it would be helpful to add a section on the corporation's finances and sources of funding. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.176.120.44 (talk) 13:56, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Not just helpful, but essential!  How can an article on an organization that generates analysis of current events not contain information on its funding!   That's on the same scale as not noting the owner of a newspaper, etc.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.165.65.171 (talk) 22:02, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: RAND's 2010 Annual Report includes lists of its donors, clients, and grantors, and a financial statement approved by auditors of PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP. A. Rizzo (talk) 18:16, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Sources of Funding 

message: We should spin that section off into its own article.  Also, I was thinking that a template and/or category might be appropriate.  Does anyone have any preferences. Smmurphy(Talk) 04:27, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 
The result of the proposal was not moved. There has been no discussion, hence no consensus to move. I have no opinion—I am just wielding the admin's mop. ●DanMS • Talk 04:50, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  notable employees 

message: I think achievements section needs an overhaul/reformulation at least this part
looks rather questionable to me:
"The achievements of RAND stem from its development of systems analysis. Important contributions are claimed in space systems and the United States' space program, in computing and in artificial intelligence. RAND researchers developed many of the principles that were used to build the Internet. Numerous analytical techniques were invented at RAND, including dynamic programming, game theory, the Delphi method, linear programming, systems analysis, and exploratory modeling. RAND also pioneered the development and use of wargaming."
You cannot claim all the achievements of people (in particular university professors) who've been technical consultants to RAND at some point as achievement of RAND.
For instance indicating that RAND (or its researchers) have invented game theory is rather ridiculous, game theory was around before RAND even existed.--Kmhkmh 04:25, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The same is true for linear programming, which was used in WW2. Smocking (talk) 01:30, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: There are definitely quite a few unsupportable claims in this article.  I wonder if there are some pro-RAND people out there trying to influence it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.119.0.181 (talk) 14:28, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Achievements

message: rand edits it's own page?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.4.127.20 (talk) 17:03, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Ummm.. Most organizations have members and former employees that edit the article. As long as affiliations are clear, and nothing untoward otherwise happens, this should not be a problem.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davidmanheim (talk • contribs) 21:43, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  can we trust it when 

message: The following passage was included under criticism, but it reads more like criticism of the game theory than of this corporation. It is also unsourced. Therefore I moved it here:
 Game theory was studied and promoted by the RAND Corporation as a way to model human behavior and 
 influence government policy. As noted in The Trap, 
 when RAND's analysts tried the games on their own secretaries, they disobeyed the ground rules that 
 they should behave selfishly and try to outwit their opponents, choosing to co-operate every time. 
 This did not, in the eyes of the analysts, discredit the theory, but instead proved that the 
 secretaries were unfit subjects.
Str1977 (talk) 19:27, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I don't know the source for this, but it is, actually, a criticism of the research methods used by the RAND Corporation in a particular study. To exclude data on the grounds that it does not fit your pre-conceived notions is an abuse of the scientific method. Robhogg (talk) 16:00, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Criticism of what?

message: What's with all the unsigned comments? Note to Commentators: sign your comments!   –Gravinos (To each their own*      *as long as they leave me alone.) 07:12, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Feel free to research the Talk Page editing history to discover who wrote what and when, then tag the unsigned comments with an  tag. —QuicksilverT @ 00:09, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Unsigned Comments... 

message: A note that I will just put here for now since the American Research and Development Corporation (AR&D) does not yet have its own article as of this writing. RAND is not AR&D. AR&D was the first publicly owned venture capital firm. See Georges Doriot. The founding of AR&D is also mentioned in . — ¾-10 03:03, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  RAND is not the American Research and Development Corporation (AR&D) 

message: Because of the nature of research at RAND it has always had very good security.  The one time that I went there with a former employee to meet with a current employee in the mid-1980s, the guard addressed the former employee by name, saying that he could not let him in.  The guards were required to remember who each person who could enter was by site, and to address and greet them when entering or leaving!
Saltysailor (talk) 06:53, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Security AT Rand 

message: A programme on BBC Radio 3 (5 August 2008) alleged that the Rand Corporation was responsible for inventing the Missile gap and denying that it was false.  Any firm evidence? Vernon White . . . Talk  22:45, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Missile gap

message: Shouldn't this article be titled "Rand"? According to Wikipedia:Manual of Style (trademarks), trademarks always use normal capitalization. Unless anyone can explain why it shouldn't be "Rand" I'm going to change it in a week. Robomanx (talk) 16:13, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: A valid point. However, there is one other linguistic force at work here, which is the variation in schools of thought on how to capitalize acronyms. RAND is probably the way that most people are used to styling it. That doesn't mean that WP can't follow the school of thought that styles, e.g., NATO as Nato and AIDS as Aids. But although we know that we can, we would have to decide whether we should, given the fact of RAND's having been styled most prevalently in all caps over the years. The discussion of this topic at Acronym and initialism#Case is worth reading. Cheers, — ¾-10 19:07, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: One other thing that I should say is that the U.S. defense community (or military-industrial complex, depending on your flavor of connotation) during the past half century (which is the culture that RAND came from and still largely serves) has usually used all-caps styling for acronyms and initialisms. However, this has been a meme, not a commandment from the heavens. I would lean toward using the prevalent style here at WP. But either side (RAND vs Rand, NATO vs Nato) can be argued effectively. — ¾-10 19:22, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I did some further digging.  The Wikipedia article on NATO spells it NATO, not Nato.  Likewise for CENTCOM, EUCOM, etc.  And the title of the Alpo article is "Alpo" but the body of the article spells it "ALPO". I'm less confident in the style guide than I was. Robomanx (talk) 19:35, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Shouldn't it be Rand? 

message: What freak wrote that first paragraph? It reads like a sales pitch from RAND.You could win bullshit bingo in seconds, by reading this.
Please change this to a human language. Thanks.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.77.153.124 (talk) 14:23, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: You were right about the sales pitch. I redacted the POV. The problem was the POV more than any meaningless use of big words. Now that the POV is trimmed, what's left seems like an accurate statement. — ¾-10 02:01, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Economy bullshit/buzzword overkill

message: I can't find ANY mention of Rand's heavy involvement with US strategic policy in the 1950s-1970s, which is REALLY REALLY disturbing because they basically defined nuclear policy for that era.  Rand CAME UP WITH mutually assured destruction, and yet there is nary a mention here. History_of_nuclear_weapons.  This makes me suspicious of corporate whitewashing. Can anyone resurrect this, because I can't find it in edit history?  
I have added a section on Rand History as pertains to nuclear weapons.  Also, IP address 66.253.167.191 appears to have made a lot of NPOV white-washing edits to the page.  Some of them are still present.  Would someone like to revert?  24.211.249.237 (talk) 13:22, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I edited your addition, and removed "Unfortunately, the Rand Institute has recently conducted a clandestine campaign to remove all mention of their involvement with Cold War nuclear policy from Wikipedia.  This is highly unfortunate because Dr. Kahn's applications of game theory to nuclear war were highly original and set the course of history." That kind of editorialising and chat within articles isn't OK. Now, do you have a source for RAND's involvement in US nuclear strategy, and Kahn being the inspiration for Dr Strangelove? Fences&Windows 20:23, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
replies: text:  Same guy -- I'll see if I can hunt down a citation or two for the nuclear policy, but I know parts of that are referenced in other pages dealing with nuclear strategy and nuclear weapon design. I probably was over the line on the editorializing, but I didn't want the whole section to mysteriously disappear (along with much of the other info about Rand's history).  It's kind of sad because they've removed history here (and in other places) that they should actually be proud of.  Their development of MAD (debatably) prevented a nuclear exchange between 1960 and the fall of the Soviet Union. Their works on game theory are also pretty kick-ass as well -- have "The Compleat Strategyst" by Williams and McKinsey's "Introduction to the Theory of Games" on my shelf.  Will try to flesh out history with more citations in info if I can find time.  24.211.254.154 (talk) 04:59, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  History 

message: Soldier's of Reason 
http://thetyee.ca/Books/2009/07/08/ColdWarCult/
Rumjal 
--rumjal 11:21, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: bookreview

message: * Why does this article read like a public relations blurb for a cosmetics firm?  We are talking about one of the leading progenitors of military activity (war) in the world (with side funding for seemingly "non-partisan" research)... Stevenmitchell (talk) 14:16, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: I've flagged it for cleanup, bias and lack of independent sources. I think most non-partisan contributors here will agree. As I said above, it simply won't do to have most of these claims sourced from Rand's own publicity material: that's worse than no source at all. We also cannot seriously pretend that this is a totally value-neutral organisation. I agree that this sort of thing is in the long run a PR disaster for the Rand staffers who seem to be monitoring this page. It makes you look like you've got something to hide. Have you?   Sartoresartus (talk) 13:27, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Bias

message: According to the article, RAND is funded 'predominantly' by 4 of the 5 sources mentioned. I do not think this word means what you think it means.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.21.124.49 (talk) 08:58, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Opening comment 

message: I believe that a citation is needed for the following section:
RAND is also the home to the Frederick S. Pardee RAND Graduate School, one of the original graduate programs in public policy and the first to offer a Ph.D. ... The Pardee RAND School is the world's largest Ph.D.-granting program in policy analysis.
While I am not calling either section into doubt, it would be nice to see some reliable references for either claim. Sorry if this seems nitpicky, but with an article as controversial as this one, it is best to have all claims covered with sources. I will attempt to research citations for this purpose at a later time.  --Ampersandestet (talk) 06:42, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Citation needed: 

message: James A. Thomson, who has served as president and CEO of the nonprofit RAND Corporation since 1989, will step down from his post in fall 2011. A search for his successor is in progress.  I will enter the successor's name here when it is known. In the interest of transparency, I am a web editor for the RAND Corporation website. A. Rizzo (talk) 18:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  RAND President James A. Thomson Stepping Down Fall 2011 

message: The name (and acronym) RAND originally meant Research And No Development.  When the company was spun out of Douglas Aircraft Co., Donald Douglas (and the Air Force generals who worked with him) determined that the company would engage in pure research, without developing products from their activities.PBCal (talk) 23:51, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Why not put this on the Article?--Steven McIntire ALLEN 03:41, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: See my explanation under "Where does the name come from ?" RCraig09 (talk) 04:00, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  More comments on the meaning of the name 

message: It is very fair of RAND to make publications on US military strategies available to anyone who wants to buy them. This prevents the US from becoming a hegemony. Thanks for the fairness, RAND.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.245.114.202 (talk) 03:24, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Fairness

message: For an institution that was (and to a certain extent, still is) a veritable fountain of highest-quality research, this article is a disgrace. There are quite a few review papers/reports written in the 1960s and 1970s on RAND's early history. 46.138.66.128 (talk) 21:18, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Outrageously low quality

message: For some reason, one user has decided that since almost none of the 'notable participants' are 'sourced' or 'cited', it would be better to remove almost all of them. I've undid that, because obviously, if we're going to remove John von Neumann, Herman Kahn and Henry Kissinger from this list, we might as well delete the entire article. One could say there is no footnote after their names, but let's be fair here: one click to their respective articles will immediately make clear, for most of them at least, that they were notable, and that they were notable as RAND employees or consultants. Do we really demand some kind of footnote after each and every name, even if the best sourcing is provided by the sources in the respective articles on those people? To me, that seems putting form before content or function, and a big waste of time to boot. Now, if the general consensus is that this is absolutely compulsory, I may be willing to Google a bit to get a footnote after everyone's name. Otherwise I see no reason to delete most of the list, leaving marginally notable people on there just because they have a footnote - while at the same time removing loads of more relevant people (whose relevance can be easily ascertained - it's one mouse click away) because they don't have a footnote. Now, to be honest, I did not yet go through all the non-redlinked people on the list, but their status really is just as easy to check as for the 'sourced' ones. 89.98.48.31 (talk) 18:23, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Technically WP cannot be used as a source on WP.  If we are going to say something about a living person then we have to cite it per our WP:BLP policy.  If it's that easy to demonstrate then your best bet is to simply source the statements otherwise they will likely be removed. Sædontalk 00:02, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Ugh, that list is huge; I don't really think we even need a list of notable participants unless they were notable for being part of RAND.  I recommend getting rid of it. Sædontalk 00:05, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

text: Hi, I will check to see if it hasn't been changed yet and if not I will do so.  Thanks for following the spirit of WP, but for minor edits like that, which are uncontroversial and which can be easily sourced, please feel free to make those changes yourself. Sædontalk 00:02, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

text: Can you tell me what year Ann McLaughlin Korologos left her position and what year Paul Kaminski took over please? Sædontalk 00:05, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: What happened to "If we are going to say something about a living person then we have to cite it per our WP:BLP policy."? 89.98.48.31 (talk) 23:04, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

text: I'm chiming in 11 years later. Having cites is a fundamental wikipedia policy, there is no excuse not to supply them. As-is, the list of people is now so long, with no details of what they did, that it is a useful collection of names. I believe the list should be deleted or reduced to a useful amount. Ashmoo (talk) 14:56, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Uncited" notable paticipants 

message: I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:
::This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:
::#There is consensus on the talkpage or the NPOV Noticeboard that the issue has been resolved
::#It is not clear what the neutrality issue is, and no satisfactory explanation has been given
::#In the absence of any discussion, or if the discussion has become dormant.
Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 00:21, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  removing POV tag with no active discussion per [[Template:POV]] 

message: Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: here. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and according to fair use may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you.  Diannaa (talk) 02:37, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Copyright problem removed 

message: This reads as if it is written by someone from RAND's PR department, which I am sure given their history is very slick. It is simply a list of plaudits. Clear marketing and PR. There is no criticism, no registry of their shady political associations, no history of their fairly disturbing interventions in world history. Here is a good example of what i am talking about that is missing, from the Guardian http://www.theguardian.com/media/2007/mar/03/broadcasting  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.111.185.25 (talk) 13:32, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: What's the point of this? It says what we already know, that RAND works in a scientific, deductive (albeit coldhearted) analysis of human systems. It criticizes the fact that RAND analyzes things in a cold, analytical manner, but this is what is done by both Classical Liberals and Scientific Socialists, or more broadly anyone who needs to quantify human existence for the sake of a study. You can't do math or science with religion or hugs, RAND has no interest in religious conservatism or grass-roots social democracy. Besides, their advice was implemented by people other than themselves, not directly by them. You wouldn't blame Voltaire, Jesus or Marx for other people violently implementing their ideas. What sort of ideology do you think the RAND corporation follows?98.193.43.114 (talk) 04:15, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Reason as weapon or weapon as tool of reason. RAND scientists advocated limited nuclear war because the aftermath could be contained and it is possible to gain power. That's destructive reason. --KingOneBozz (talk) 12:54, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  NPOV 

message: The company's role in the torture of enemy combatants in Vietnam, including the involvement of some of its employees under contract to the military, would seem to be significant. Fairly big deal one whistleblower Anthony Russo revealed what was happening. Also no mention of Daniel Ellsburg, the employee of RAND who leaked the Pentagon Papers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.198.121.230 (talk) 14:31, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Vietnam torture? 

message: There is no criticism. Should be there PERIOD.--85.180.214.65 (talk) 00:51, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Criticism  is missing 

message: This entry is a pile of worthless PR shit. It seems the vigilant editing by the RAND Corporation's in-house flunkeys can't be stopped, there are too many of them and they have more riding on it than we do, so I move to flag it for everything under the sun and protect the tags. Sartoresartus (talk) 02:41, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: I've added an advert tag. The article reads like a promotional piece and cites RAND Corp publications. --Knowitahl (talk) 22:36, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

text: Disagree. Still sounds like PR. For example, "Unlike many other programs, all Pardee RAND Graduate School students receive fellowships to cover their education costs. This allows them to dedicate their time to engage in research projects and provides them with on-the-job training." 199.184.228.12 (talk) 20:19, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Blatant PR 

message: Hi - I am an employee at RAND and I'm requesting a few changes/additions to leaders in the infobox. The source has been updated here: https://www.rand.org/about/organization/leadership.html and the information is outdated on this page.
Proposed additions (beneath President and CEO - Michael D. Rich):
* Chief of Staff, Office of the President - Jennifer Gould 
* Senior Vice President, Research and Analysis - Andrew R. Hoehn 
* Vice President, External Affairs - Winfield A. Boerckel 
* Vice President, Human Resources - Allison Elder  
* Vice President and Chief Financial Officer - Mike Januzik  
* Dean, Pardee RAND Graduate School; Vice President, Innovation - Susan L. Marquis  
* Executive Director, Research Services and Operations - Eric Peltz  
* Executive Director, Development - Naveena Ponnusamy  
* Vice President, International - Charles P. Ries  
* Vice President, Global Research Talent - Melissa Rowe  
* Vice President, General Counsel, Corporate Secretary, and Ethics and Compliance Officer - Debra L. Schroeder 
Thanks --Gp0405 (talk) 14:40, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: I updated this information. Gp0405 (talk) 08:02, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Request - Leadership 

message: RAND opened a new office in the San Francisco Bay Area in April 2017. Here is the source: http://www.rand.org/about/locations.html. I'm an employee at RAND. Could someone make this change in the second paragraph? Gp0405 (talk) 08:20, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Since I didn't hear from anyone, I added this information. Gp0405 (talk) 15:18, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Edit request - Add new office location 

message: No explanation was given to resolve dispute to remove the tags. See talk page was not an explanation for restoring the tags and there is no ongoing dispute. QuackGuru (talk) 17:40, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Tags 

message: Why no mention of Rand's copious EU funding?!? Conflict of interest re it's recent anti Brexit propaganda.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.55.15 (talk) 08:51, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  EU funding