Talk:Dietary supplement

message: This page should link to many large, long-term, randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind studies of the effects (or lack of effect) of specific commercially available dietary supplements on objective measures of intelligence, strength, endurance, and disease. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jwr42 (talk • contribs) 
:Having worked in this field for most of my career, I can say that the human trials you want for links rarely exist. Individual ingredient or supplement companies cannot afford large trials, one reason being no exclusivity because no patents. For a subset of supplements a government may decide to conduct a large trial. These can end badly. SELECT looked at vitamin E and/or selenium because epidemiology and small trials were promising for prevention of prostate cancer. And then the trial was ended early, because early results indicated no benefit and possible harm.David notMD (talk) 00:50, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  needs a lot more studies 

message: Requesting the 'Adverse effects' section be re-worded and expanded. The single citation is itself rather inflammatory, and the section doesn't clarify exact numbers of use-to-harm cases, nor in what countries (of course, neither does its citation).
Nobody's arguing dietary supplements aren't without risk, but clarification should be made here, as the section is a stub and showing bias.
Also, the article almost entirely covers "fat burning" weight-loss supplements, while the stub makes this seem as if it cites study on more common supplements like multi-vitamins, etc.
I understand this is a semi-protected page due to vandalism, but that means all the more emphasis needs to be made on thorough, un-bias research, and as little single-sided commentary as possible.
An otter (talk) 18:07, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. —  (e • t • c) 23:10, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 31 December 2014 

message: The fifth paragraph (copied below) is an opinion of one person, perhaps based on one individual article. Further, "Should be avoided..." cannot be drawn from that one article: the only thing the article stated was that, according to that one person, supplements are unnecessary. That is very different in meaning than "should be avoided." There are countless other studies which support the use of vitamin supplements, which far outweigh one paper.
"Most supplements should be avoided, and usually people should not eat micronutrients except people with clearly shown deficiency.[4] Those people should first consult a doctor.[5] An exception is vitamin D, which is recommended in Nordic countries[6] due to weak sunlight."  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brlteach (talk • contribs) 13:58, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: No it summarizes the body, where the content is well sourced. Jytdog (talk) 18:49, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Paragraph 5 is an opinion and should be removed 

message: I removed this text from the multivitamin page.  Just dropping it here in case anyone thinks it could be useful in this article:
"The United Kingdom Food Standards Agency recommended in 2007 that pregnant women should take extra folic acid and iron and that older people might need extra vitamin D and iron.The Balance of Good Health Food Standards Agency, Accessed 31 May 2008 However, these recommendations also advised that "vitamin and mineral supplements are not a replacement for good eating habits.""
. Great floors (talk) 16:43, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Text about UK FSA recommending iron and folic acid sometimes 

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thread_title:  External links modified 

message: Much of this page is pro-medicine and anti-supplement with almost no links to any studies that have been conducted. Most of the sources are basically just "doctor's say: don't self-medicate"
Compare this to the information given on the pages of specific supplements, where research is linked as well as pharmacokinetics/pharmacodynamics.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.188.5.115 (talk) 00:12, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Can you give specific examples of bias in the article? Maybe you can add citation needed tags, where necessary. VeniVidiVicipedia (talk) 10:19, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: In the lead section: "Most supplements should be avoided, and usually people should not eat micronutrients except people with clearly shown deficiency." The citation used to support this statement only reflects the view of a single source. There does not appear to be a clear consensus over whether supplements should be avoided. Apparently the nutrition.gov citation is actually in favor of dietary supplements in certain circumstances. 211.100.57.205 (talk) 11:22, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
replies: text:  I get what you mean. I added a "additional citation needed" tag. Do you have a proposal on how the text could be improved? VENIVIDIVICIPEDIAtalk 13:20, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Clear bias in the article 

message: Can't we do better than citing articles in The New York Times and BBC?David notMD (talk) 00:54, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Why are so many references news media? 

message: Reference # 2 "Grace, Emily. "How to choose the best supplement". Health Beacon. Retrieved 3 October 2013." leads to a website with  Nike ads. http://healthbeacon.co.uk/articles/featured/health-beacon/2013/08/how-to-choose-the-best-supplement.aspx
IguanaArmadillo (talk) 09:41, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: thanks! Jytdog (talk) 19:09, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  source link leads to ad 

message: The current top one is kind of weird, I´d more expect to see some colorful pills, or maybe jars of super-common supplements (for humans). Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:15, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes! And the second image is goopy supplements for pigs!! and the third one is not a real product. Rather, it is an anti-supplement image!!!  If the article is supposed to be neutral point of view (NPOV) then that should apply to the images, too.David notMD (talk) 21:56, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Removed the top and second image as not relevant to the topic. Article coould have one image of capsules, tablets, pills, powders, liquids if that can be done without showing any brands. David notMD (talk) 00:58, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Removed the last image as not NPOV. David notMD (talk) 22:00, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Added three images that are NPOV. David notMD (talk) 12:18, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Z added good images. Some better than what I had put in, so I deleted mine. David notMD (talk) 16:23, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title: Images

message: Currently I am self-employed as a science consultant to companies in the dietary supplement, performance nutrition and functional food industries. I am not receiving payments from clients for making changes to Wikipedia entries (and have not, and will not). NO PAID EDITING. None of my clients are aware of my Wikipedia activities, and none have ever asked me to create or edit Wikipedia entries. My intentions are to maintain a neutral point of view while improving the quality of writing and referencing in this article. David notMD (talk) 10:45, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: working within an industry does not necessarily imply a conflict of interests with editorial contributions to articles about that industry. A conflict of interests would arise if you were to create articles about, or contribute to articles about clients or other entities from whom you receive remuneration. If you are in doubt, you are encouraged to use the  template, or by posting a note at the COI noticeboard, so that your contributions can be peer reviwed. The current modification to the lede of this article represents a net improvement and my only comments about it so far have been of stylistic issues and of geographical bias, which are common issues when a surplus of reliable sources come from one particular country. Do avoid using the passive voice and referring to non specific entities without attribution or sourcing, ('...it has been claimed...' or 'many scientists state...' for example). If you are considering an article for creation and want to know if COI might apply you can check out the link wp:COI or message me and I'd be happy to help. Note: I have not checked how much experience you have had with Wikipedia, so many apologies if all of this is known to you. Edaham (talk) 01:55, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: All good suggestions. There are articles about companies that are/were my clients and I do not edit those. The areas of my interest - nutrients and dietary supplements - are contentious and fraught with weak science, so my approach is conservative. For topics such as this one I still felt it was important to be transparent about my background. "Writing what you know" means that I tend to start with the situation in the United States, but am conscious of the need to be more global. As for experience, I am at >6,000 edits (but have not yet attempted to create an article). David notMD (talk) 12:45, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Declaring conflict of interest 

message: This article needs better content and citations in all sections. David notMD (talk) 12:23, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: There are no tags indicating where better sources are needed. Can you be more specific? Natureium (talk) 14:43, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: I am loathe to add "citation needed" because much of the text needs to be revised, too. For example, in Proteins and amino acids I removed all text and started replacement: protein mostly done, but nothing on amino acids yet. Sections I recently revised are Lead, Vitamins, Dietary minerals, Proteins and amino acids, Bodybuilding. The rest all need a cleanse (not a valid health treatment by the way) before improvements to citations.  David notMD (talk) 15:50, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: you can add tags to sections, or to the article head, rather than to individual parts of the article. You can also make a wp:TODO list which you can put on the talk page. Tagging articles (ideally) requires that the editors who leave the tags be clear about what needs to occur in order for them to be removed. Downgrading an article which requires a great deal of maintenance should also be a collaborative decision, hopefully in order to ensure there is sufficient attention being given to restoring it to its former status. Thirdly, at the top of the article are several links to projects to which this article belongs. You can create notifications on the talk pages of those project pages and also on pages related to this one, to attract the attention of editors who may be interested in improving this article. I think this is the bare minimum of effort an article being downgraded deserves. Edaham (talk) 16:30, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: New sections created in Talk at the various WikiProjects and at the related Bodybuilding supplement article, explaining my decision to downgrade Dietary supplement from B- to C-class. I will also work up a TODO list. David notMD (talk) 17:16, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

text: In February, after extensive editing by several editors, an editor restored B-class. I concur with this, although still needs lots of work. David notMD (talk) 09:55, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Downrated from B-class to C-class 

message: Suggestions for improving the Dietary supplement article before can be considered for B-class David notMD (talk) 14:39, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Article has more than doubled in length since this round of changes started, and an editor restored it to B-class. I agree with the reassessment, although in my opinion there are still improvements to be made and parts express an anti-supplement POV. I also consider this topic too controversial and the citable information so continually changing as to not warrant an attempt to raise it to Good Article. The article gets more than 20,000 views a month, so this continues to be is a worthy topic for improvement. David notMD (talk) 12:49, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Which sections contain NPOV text?  I didn't read through the entire article at the time I reassessed it; I just checked to see whether or not there were any overt violations of the WP:B-class criteria. I'm willing to revise and appropriately cite any sections with NPOV content though. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 06:41, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The Adverse effects section mentions numerous events when what is being cited reported ~6,000 case reports over several years from tens of millions of people using dietary supplements. The rest of the section also imprecise (and refs 68 and 81 are identical). David notMD (talk) 14:23, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  TO DO list 

message: I replaced what I thought was a short, confusing mish-mosh of a Research section with three paragraphs (~530 words) and six references. Now all deleted and no Research section. Should this article have a section on research, and if so, what goes in it? David notMD (talk) 21:29, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Via a Pubmed search, one can see there are numerous systematic reviews and meta-analyses of clinical trials over the past few years that assessed efficacy and safety of supplements in various conditions and diseases, allowing us to actually state results for some high-quality studies. Concerning this, citing activity in clinicaltrials.gov is not encyclopedic. I'll work on drafting a new Research section in the next day or so. --Zefr (talk) 22:20, 2 February 2018 (UTC)

text: If we are going to have a research section in this, general article, it should discuss supplements generally, not research with specific supplements.  If we did the latter the section would be enormous.   Stuff like  is what we would want... and per MEDMOS we should be discussing trends - what kind of stuff is being studied, and perhaps why..Jytdog (talk) 22:37, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Please do not include literature about foods or medical foods, as those are not classified as dietary supplements. David notMD (talk) 21:32, 7 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: The first sentence of the article defines a dietary supplement, which fits fine with the type of materials studied in the two sources you removed. The hip fracture article covers many kinds of supplements, i.e, not food or medical foods, that were added to the diets of the subjects. The gout study included supplemental vitamin C. Both articles support the point of the section: adding nutrients to the diet independent of food did not improve the subjects' conditions. --Zefr (talk) 22:59, 7 February 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Research section or not? 

message: Yogurt products contain probiotics, have had health claims made, same claims disputed, regulated, fined, etc. Problem is that probiotic-containing yogurts are by definition NOT dietary supplements. It should be possible to replace the content with examples and with government regulatory actions against probiotic dietary supplements. This would be preferred to just removing the text and citations about yogurt. David notMD (talk) 10:04, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
replies: text: Combined the probiotics content from Types and Controversy into the former. Kept all citations, including the yogurt ones, but made clear those were not about dietary supplements. Added a description of FDA regulating a probiotic dietary supplement company. Did not go into specifics of health claims, as that content is covered at length in the Probiotic article. A reminder that I have declared a COI for dietary supplements. See 17 January 2018. David notMD (talk) 04:01, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
thread_title:  Yogurt examples for probiotic supplements and controversy 

message: - I'm wondering about the usefulness and WP:UNDUE weight of this addition you provided. Accepted that the new section is intended to highlight and minimize the misinformation about Himalayan salt nutrient content, as well discussed in the 2017 Hall article. I feel the issue could be handled with one sentence in the Minerals section, perhaps giving another example or two. One could find innumerable examples of other quackery about nutrient and supplements, so giving attention to this one seems odd. Alternate idea: maybe a short, more general section under Controversy discussing supplement quackery and misbranding could be added, and would dovetail logically with the FDA litigation subsection. Thoughts? --Zefr (talk) 16:35, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I put it there because relevant to minerals, and where readers might look for information on mineral dietary supplements. But you are right that it puts a useless mineral supplement in a section about essential nutrient minerals. The generalized problem is that there are supplements that contain only nutrients, supplements that contain only non-nutrient ingredients (using criteria that nutrients are essential and everything else not a nutrient), and the very common combination products. I am open to any rearrangement of the article. And to deletion of the content I just added if undue. David notMD (talk) 17:19, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Himalayan salt and 84 minerals 

message: :Among other countries, the definition of dietary supplements may vary as drugs or other classes of ingredients used in supplement products.
I'm a native English speaker, but at a loss to say what this means - and from what I can see it doesn't seem to summarise anything from the body of the article either. If you think it means something, I'd be interested to know what, but it should not go back until it makes sense without such an explanation. - Snori (talk) 20:12, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree it's a poorly worded sentence and is not really needed in the lede. Its intent (I don't claim to be the author) apparently was to state that supplement ingredients could actually be classified as drugs or nutrients in some countries – a statement of fact. --Zefr (talk) 21:05, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: "Among other countries..."

message: An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so.  Utopes (talk) 05:20, 27 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  "These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so.  Utopes (talk) 05:30, 27 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  "This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] 

message: Needs a section on dietary supplements for pets, or perhaps enlarge to animals in general? There is a supplement industry for race horses. David notMD (talk) 17:35, 27 December 2019 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pets! 

message: Looks like the linked paper [120] for this statement - "In 2015, the Australian Government's Department of Health published the results of a review of herbal supplements to determine if any were suitable for coverage by health insurance.[120]" - is a review of various physical therapies, massage and so on, not "herbal supplements" or dietary supplements. Maybe it should be removed. 2001:8004:1DF1:7ED:7883:C274:AAEA:EDCD (talk) 12:07, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Australian review of "Nutritional Supplements" 

message: - restructuring Dietary Supplements page to follow the Wiki style Medicine manual guidelines
 - adding sections on fertility supplements and pediatric supplements 
Achang6 (talk) 20:39, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't use the encyclopedia as a group draft term paper for a university course, as done with these two edits. Do your research first and follow WP:MEDRS for choosing high-quality sources. There are no antiaging drugs, and there are no "antiaging" supplements with qualified health claims from any national regulatory agency. Zefr (talk) 21:07, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Foundations II 2023 Group 2 Proposed Edits 

message: Great job group 2.  It was great to see the updated information in the lead section. Love the addition of the prenatal/ pregnancy section and the linking of various relevant articles. Great use of lay language, flow, and organization.
Overall, we do believe you’ve achieved your initial goals. 
X. Chen, UCSF (talk) 21:40, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
replies: text: Referencing was not initially in standard format, and added text needed to be revised because some wording was more conclusive in tone than was supported by the references. Some content removed because it rested on a weak review even though stronger and more recent reviews were available in the literature. All in all, good work for students (I've seen and fixed far worse). There is always hope that participation in Wikipedia will continue beyond a class assignment. David notMD (talk) 13:17, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

text: Group 2 removed all the months from the dates of journal articles, which is preferred, also a lot of unnecessary effort to remove spaces within references, as these are invisible to how the article and references appear. Blanket revert. One ref had been improved (going from CNN summary of a journal article to the actual journal article - that was restored). David notMD (talk) 00:41, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
thread_title:  Foundations II Group 30 Peer Review 2021 

message: Regulatory Compliance incorrectly says that Canadian law considers dietary supplements a food item. Canadian law lists them as a Natural Health Product and regulates them as a tertiary thing under the Food and Drugs Act. 142.109.6.211 (talk) 01:34, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
replies: text: Make the change and use that as a reference. David notMD (talk) 04:03, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Regulatory Compliance 

message: Below I have pasted the edited version of the intro and Definition sections. I made grammar corrections and cleaned up phrasing:
A dietary supplement is a manufactured product intended to supplement one's diet via alternative consumption forms such as pills, capsules, tablets, powders, or liquids.[2] A supplement can provide nutrients that are extracted from food sources or manufactured synthetically in order to increase the efficacy of high quantity consumption. Targeted nutrient classes include vitamins, minerals, fiber, fatty acids, and amino acids. Dietary supplements can also contain substances that are not necessarily essential for life but are marketed as having a beneficial biological effect. Examples of these include  plant pigments or polyphenols. Animals can also be a source of supplement ingredients as in the case of collagen, which is derived from chickens or fish. Products can contain nutrients on an individual basis or in combination with one another; it is important for individuals to check nutrition labels so that they know exactly what they are taking. In this regard, the European Commission has established harmonized rules to help insure that food supplements are safe and appropriately labeled.[3]
Within an industry estimated to have a value of $151.9 billion in 2021,[4] there are more than 50,000 dietary supplement products marketed in the United States.[5] About 50% of the American adult population consumes dietary supplements with Multivitamins being the most common.[6] The United States National Institutes of Health states that supplements "may be of value" for those who are nutrient deficient from their diet and receive approval from their medical provider.[7]
In the United States, it is against federal regulations for supplement manufacturers to claim that their products prevent or treat any diseases. Companies are allowed to use what is referred to as "Structure/Function" wording if there is substantiated scientific evidence that a supplement provides a health effect.[8] An example would be "_____ helps maintain healthy joints,” but the label must bear a disclaimer that the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) "has not evaluated the claim" and that the dietary supplement product is not intended to "diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease,” because only a certified drug can legally make such a claim.[8] The FDA enforces these regulations and also prohibits the sale of supplements with dangerous ingredients or that are not made according to standardized good manufacturing practices (GMPs).
Definition
In the United States, the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994 provides this description: "The Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994 (DSHEA) defines the term "dietary supplement" to mean a product (other than tobacco) intended to supplement the diet that bears or contains one or more of the following dietary ingredients: a vitamin, a mineral, an herb or other botanical, an amino acid, a dietary substance for use by man to supplement the diet by increasing the total dietary intake, or a concentrate, metabolite, constituent, extract, or combination of any of the aforementioned ingredients. Furthermore, a dietary supplement must be labeled as a dietary supplement and be intended for ingestion and must not be represented for use as conventional food or as a sole item of a meal or of the diet. In addition, a dietary supplement cannot be approved or authorized for investigation as a new drug, antibiotic, or biologic, unless it was marketed as a food or a dietary supplement before such approval or authorization. Under DSHEA, dietary supplements are deemed to be food, except for purposes of the drug definition."[9]
Per DSHEA, dietary supplements are consumed orally, and are mainly defined by what they are not: conventional foods (including meal replacements), medical foods,[10] preservatives or pharmaceutical drugs. Products intended for use as a nasal spray or topically, as in a lotion applied to the skin, do not qualify. FDA-approved drugs cannot be ingredients in dietary supplements. Supplement products are or contain vitamins, nutritionally essential minerals, amino acids, essential fatty acids and non-nutrient substances extracted from plants, animals, fungi, bacteria, or in the instance of probiotics, are live bacteria. Dietary supplement ingredients may also be synthetic copies of naturally occurring substances (example: melatonin). All products with these ingredients are required to be labeled as dietary supplements.[11] Simar to foods but unlike drugs, no government approval is required to make or sell dietary supplements. Rather than requiring risk–benefit analysis to prove that the product can be sold like a drug, the FDA only uses such an assessment to decide that a dietary supplement is unsafe and should be removed from market.[11]
Lastly, I made grammar corrections and rephrasing suggestions to the Vitamins section. I also added a bit on what happens if a vitamin is consumed in excess. The citation for this is included below as well:
A vitamin is an organic compound required by an organism as a vital nutrient in limited amounts.[12] An organic chemical compound (or related set of compounds) is called a vitamin when it cannot be synthesized in sufficient quantities by an organism and must be obtained from the diet. The term is conditional both on the circumstances and on the particular organism. For example, ascorbic acid (vitamin C) is a vitamin for anthropoid primates, humans, guinea pigs and bats, but not for other mammals. Vitamin D is not an essential nutrient for people who get sufficient exposure to ultraviolet light, either from the sun or an artificial source, as they synthesize vitamin D in skin.[13] Humans require thirteen vitamins in their diet, most of which are actually groups of related molecules, "vitamers", (e.g. vitamin E includes tocopherols and tocotrienols, vitamin K includes vitamin K1 and K2). The list: vitamins A, C, D, E, K, Thiamine (B1), Riboflavin (B2), Niacin (B3), Pantothenic Acid (B5), Vitamin B6, Biotin (B7), Folate (B9) and Vitamin B12. Vitamin intake below recommended amounts can result in signs and symptoms associated with vitamin deficiency. There is little evidence of benefit when vitamins are consumed as a dietary supplement by those who are healthy and have a nutritionally adequate diet.[14]
The U.S. Institute of Medicine sets tolerable upper intake levels (ULs) for some of the vitamins. This does not prevent dietary supplement companies from selling products with content per serving higher than the ULs. For example, the UL for vitamin D is 100 µg (4,000 IU),[15] but products are available without prescription at 10,000 IU. The adverse effects of chronically exceeding ULs vary with the given nutrient. For example, excess calcium can lead to hyperglycemia and renal insufficiency. Too much fluoride may result in moderate enamel fluorosis or, for children 9-13 years of age, skeletal fluorosis. A final example is Vitamin C overdosing, which can cause osmotic diarrhea and gastrointestinal disturbances*see citation below.
 
*From: 6, Using the Tolerable Upper Intake Level for Nutrient Assessment of Groups
DRI Dietary Reference Intakes: Applications in Dietary Assessment.
Institute of Medicine (US) Subcommittee on Interpretation and Uses of Dietary Reference Intakes; Institute of Medicine (US) Standing Committee on the Scientific Evaluation of Dietary Reference Intakes.
Washington (DC): National Academies Press (US); 2000.
Copyright 2000 by the National Academy of Sciences. All rights reserved.
NCBI Bookshelf. A service of the National Library of Medicine, National Institutes of Health. Gduffy25 (talk) 00:36, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Semi-protected edit request on 14 February 2023