Talk:Chiefs (rugby union)

message: Found at Talk:Blues (rugby team)--HamedogTalk|@ 13:36, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: That discussion was closed, and it was decided that these various page moves should be discussed separately.  Those interested may wish to relist this page as an individual move request. -GTBacchus(talk) 02:19, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Page Move 

message: :Add  * Support  or  * Oppose  on a new line followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~.
*Support It is important for all the New Zealand teams to be at their proper names. Chiefs currently redirects and I believe most people searching this article will type "Chiefs"--HamedogTalk|@ 05:21, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Well the name of the Chiefs is simply Chiefs so I would assume most people searching for the team will type in Chiefs.--HamedogTalk|@ 02:20, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: Survey

message: Maps of the franchise encachment areas would enhance the article. Chainz 09:45, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Maps 

message: "Super rugby"?!?!? what in the world is going on with that? It should either be simply at Chiefs or at Chiefs (Super 14 rugby franchise). The Chiefs are my local team and I have never before heard of them refered to as a "Super rugby franchise". I'm not saying the term is never used but it must be a very rare term. Gets some 400 results from google. Mathmo Talk 06:13, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Since Super 12 changed to Super 14, the new term Super Rugby was coined out and since then all franchises are known as Super rugby team which is better to use then (Super 14 rugby franchise)...--Cometstyles 09:39, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I think Chiefs (rugby) is actually the best title. It's nice and simple. I wouldn't oppose the move. - Shudda talk 10:17, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I agree Shudda, and all other NZ and SA teams should follow the move. "Super rugby franchise" sounds odd, (rugby) is the best way to go. All the links (which are probably already broken by constant moving) should be fixed as well. Cvene64 13:58, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Teams like Stormers ,Queensland Reds, Central Cheetahs and New South Wales Waratahs dont even have a (rugby) tag in their name and using (rugby) makes it sound so common and these teams are part of the biggest rugby club competition in the world and more people watch and follow Super Rugby then any other Northern Hemisphere club competitions and using (rugby) might create problems such as Blues (rugby) might redirect to Cardiff Blues or Sharks (rugby) might redirect to Sale Sharks so I think its better we stay with super rugby because since the NZ Teams removed their first names (Canterbury Crusaders>>Crusaders), they are starting to sound more like International clubs and also sounds a bit more professional and anyways even if someone types Chiefs rugby it would redirect to Chiefs (Super rugby franchise) and it applies to all other teams as well and anyways so I dont see any problem...--Cometstyles 14:17, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Agreed. All the commentators talk about "Super Rugby" now anyway. It's not that weird or uncommon. JCIACHNE 18:13, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I think rugby is the simplest. If people search for Chiefs, to try and find this team, the most likely other word they include in their search would be rugby. I agree that the occasional person may go to the article thinking it's another team (for example Blues, Cardiff Blues), but most teams in the Super 14 don't have a regional identifier (such as Cardiff, or Sale) so it makes sense the article belongs here. A disambiguation link can be included at the top of the article also. Some don't need the (rugby) bit, but I don't see how that really matters. - Shudda talk 22:04, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

text: There is a big difference here between chiefs and crusaders, because the plural form of crusader is very common. They didn't go fight as just one crusader! Hence the plural form of crusader is a common search term, however the plural form of cheif is much rarer than the singular. Because in general usage you have one chief of a tribe. While chiefs in rugby is naturally always plural due to it being a team. Mathmo Talk 02:41, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: I know but if you look above there has already been a consensus on this and well rugby lost but the same thing will happen again. Maybe someone would want it to redirect to Kansas City Chiefs, an American football team or maybe the Laval Chiefs, an Ice Hockey team in Quebec, Canada and as a consensus has already taken place we better leave it to that..--Cometstyles 12:08, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, I saw that. But that is only that once, can be asked to be moved again. See, WP:CCC. Plus also, I feel the arguments given against were weak. Might check the MoS somewhat more first regarding naming of articles. Mathmo Talk 01:00, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  "Super rugby" franchise 

message: *"has been the least successful of the competition's five New Zealand sides"
:"Least successful" is a vague phrase, that ought to not be there or at least ought to be immediately qualified straight after the statement. So for now I'll be removing it. Mathmo Talk 05:39, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: They have only qualified for the semi-finals once. So they are the least unsuccessful. - Shudda talk 05:53, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: You are probably missing the point, "successful" is itself a vague term. Hence "least successful" is also vague, because it is least successful at what?? Money gained by the franchise? Crowd turnouts at the matchs? Or in your case... "least number of semi-finals appearances". They are all one of many varying metrics for success. So as such it ought to either not be included, or have a suitable reference and be stated in such as a way that it makes this clear. Mathmo Talk 02:34, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: It makes a lot of sense though, how far you progress through the competition is almost certainly the best measure of success. Something like, "They are the least successful New Zealand Super 14 team, as they are the one to never reach a competition final." Certainly letting people know that is important though. If not, then a footnote could be added to the sentence. So "They are the least successful New Zealand franchise.This is because they are the only New Zealand franchise to never reach a Super final. - Shudda talk 21:29, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: The footnote option wouldn't make it less POV. Something along the lines of "Having only made it into the playoffs once, the Chiefs have had the least amount of post-season success." Or if you want to use another metric (and no idea if this is true), "The Chiefs have the worst regular season record in the league with XXX wins and XXX losses or a XX% winning percentage." --Bobblehead 22:01, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Its not really referred to as post-season, and winning percentage is not really used as a measure of success in the competition. I don't see how a team that has only made the semi-finals once (they qualified fourth as well, so didn't host it), and never a final can be considered more successful then any team that has made a final, or won the competition. Of the four other team, the Crusaders and Blues have won the tournament (six and three times respectively), the Highlanders have hosted a final (in 1999) and been in three other semi-finals (1998, 2000, 2002), and the Hurricanes have been in a final (2006), and three semi-finals (1997, 2003, 2005). Not only are the Chiefs the least successful team, they are easily the least successful team. Its not POV, it's an unfortunate fact. I would love to say they have done better, but it's just not true. - Shudda talk 22:15, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Heh, sorry about using the wrong terminology. The POV is how it is worded, not whether or not it's true or not. Using an example from WP:NPOV, writing "The Beatles are the greatest band in history" is a POV statement, but saying "Most Americans believe that the Beatles were the greatest band," or "The Beatles had many songs that made the Billboard Hot 100," is NPOV. I'm not saying the Chiefs are not the least successful team, just that the sentence should say why they are the least successful team.  --Bobblehead 23:01, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yeah, that is kind of what I was saying too. Unfortunately I'll agree with Shudda that (in most respects at least) the Chiefs are the least succesful. However... at the same time, I would not at all be surprised if you could find some way of looking at this which shows they are not the least succesful according to whatever other measure is used (crowd attendence?? Or?? Which there is more stats in the articles). Mathmo Talk 01:08, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Trying to find a way of putting them in a positive light is definitely POV! Just state facts. How should it be worded? Seems NPOV to me, it said "least successful" (success is something quantifiable, as I explained above), not "worst" or anything like that. - Shudda talk 09:56, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

text: I disagree, the footnote would be able to clarify that for people that really find it hard to believe. I think to exclude the statement would be bias however, as they are clearly less successful then either of those teams. What would be better is maybe to say "historically they are less successful" as their performance (like all other teams) varies season to season. I think this debate is getting a bit off topic though. It's really not unreasonable to include the statement. Someone that knows little of the Chiefs or the Super 12 or 14 would find such a statement very valuable. Crowd numbers, supporters, profits etc are separate, and thats not what this is about. Can we start to focus on improving this article, rather then discussing ways painting the team in a positive (or negative for that matter) light. - Shudda talk 09:56, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  POV 

message: There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Crusaders (rugby) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RM bot 06:30, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: Move discussion in progress

message: Will there be any consideration or discussion in the future about splitting the women's team from the main page? --Tamariki (talk) 19:07, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  Team split