Talk:Bnei Menashe

message: You have been misinformed by the media.  Look into the CCR5 anomaly and the link to the bubonic plague in Egypt at the time of Ikhnaton.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.130.84.37 (talk) 20:29, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: I have to disagree... Shinlung is an association with a much larger group of people, the Bnei Menashe are a pretty distinctive subgroup of the Mizo+Kuki+etc.  Tomertalk 03:58, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Untitled

message: "A group of 54 Jewish persons from Mizoram in northeastern India, who claim to be descendants of an ancient Jewish tribe, arrived here on Tuesday." Which Tuesday? Where is here? Israel, I suppose.
:Myer Samra 15:54, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Where, when

message: This is an error, since the Hebrew text of Exodus speaks of a sea of reeds, as in the plants. Using red sea is a mistranslation. Taltman 22:24, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: It's an error made by the Chin, who evidently amended their harvest song to make it accord with the version of Exodus (Red Sea, not Reed Sea) that the missionaries gave them. PiCo 13:01, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

text: Actually, the original Hebrew uses "yam suf", lit. "sea of rushes" or "sea of reeds".  The Documentary Hypothesis insists on calling translating this as "Red Sea" is "in error", but since the proponents of the DH weren't there, their pontifications should be taken with a grain of salt.  To this day, the Hebrew name for the Red Sea is still "Yam Suf".  I don't know where the relevant reeds are [i.e., the ones that give the Sea its name], nor do I much care, the fact of the matter remains that it's preposterous to pretend that the Hebrew name for the Red Sea is based on a mistranslation of the Bible into other languages.  For all any of us know today, the water of the Red Sea really was red at one point, or even just the water at the north end, where it was possibly overgrown with reeds.  I don't know the origin of the English toponym "Red Sea", nor does anyone else.  Neither does anyone know the origin of the Hebrew toponym "ים סוף" The point is, this "oh, that's wrong, because we know that's all just a mistranslation" is really all just idle speculation, in this case, apparently, especially geared toward cynical and remarkably unscholarly attempts to discredit the Bnei Menashe by seizing on the most inconsequential of nebulous details, and, effectively, making a mountain out of a molehill.  Tomertalk 03:58, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Red Colored Sea

message: Can we get a figure for the number of Bnei Menashe?
: Well there are a few million of them, however only about 7,000 have follow Judaism. Even the Christians are considered Bnei Menashe. Also more and more of them are starting to observe Judaism, so the actual number today is probably much larger the 7,000. --Spoil29 19:38, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: The latest numbers I've seen indicate they number approximately 9k, perhaps slightly more, but probably still <10k.  Tomertalk 03:58, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Population?

message: I can't figure out if they are also called the Shinlung tribe, or the  Sinlung tribe, even though Shinglung sounds more correct to me.
:I've wondered about this as well...nearly every other text refers to them as "Shinlung".  It bears mentioning tho, that the Shinlung (lit. "cave dwellers") are not a tribe, but an outsiders' designation (Burmese, I believe) for any number of peoples of nw burma and ne india, few of whom actually live in caves.   Tomer TALK 15:55, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
replies: text: uh...any reason for that remark? Do you know anything about the Shinlung vs. Sinlung question?  Or just kibbitzing again?  Tomer TALK 05:57, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

text: From what I understand, at the time 800 (not 700) had already made aliya, and 220 or so were converted by the rabbinical delegation prior to being recalled.  As I understand it, that makes about 1020 Bnei Menashe who are "officially" Jewish, with another 7000 waiting for the porazniqim in the Government to stop dragging their feet.  The entire mishegas is a chilul Hashem, but then the likes of Shinui regard that as a feather in their cap, so no surprise there.  Tomertalk 09:05, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

text: I've read a lot about them, and had the privilege to meet a few. I would not characterize it as a chilu hashem, as they are hard-working, modest people, who lead devout lives as Jews, and sincerely want to be part of kelal Yisrael. That said, I don't give much credence to the notion that they are descended from ancient Jews--although they believe so, as do their advocates such as Rabbi Avichayil. Rabbi Avichayil has his own theological-political reasons for converting them and encouarging them to make aliyah to Israel, he believes he is truly effecting a kibbutz galuyot-ingathering of the Exiles, as well as strengthening the Jewish demography of Israel and the territories in particular. It is no coincidence that upon their aliyah they were settled mostly in Gush Katif. My own personal opinion is that if they demonstrate a desire to convert, and make aliyah to Israel they should be assisted in doing so--but on an individual basis, not en masse, as that cheapens Judaism--as a community in Israel so many of them have proven themselves an asset to the country. ShmorgelBorgel 16:44, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
replies: text:  I think you've misinterpreted what I was saying.  The chilul Hashem I was referring to is the way the antireligious ministers in the Israeli government have dragged their feet and put up unnecessary and obstinate obstacles for the Bnei Menashe.  I don't know whether they're descended from ancient bnei yisra'el or not, nor do I particularly think that whether they are is especially relevant to any subject other than eschatology—something far outside the purview of this article.  You're right tho...it's no coïncidence that they mostly settled in gush qatif (and some in gush etzion, I believe)...at least according to the JPress some years back, qibutzim and moshavim elsewhere would not accept them.  Tomertalk 22:19, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Shinlung?

message: Quite a god article on this obscure people. But it doesn't have a list of references - really would help if one were provided. PiCo 13:02, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks Myer. I've got Tudor Parfitt's book, "Lost Tribes of Israel." My interest in this subject is jourlanistic - I've written an article on the Jews of Burma, largely based on a visit to the synagogue in Yangon (I'm not a scholar, I'm a writer of feature articles), but including an overview of the Kuki - based on Tudor Parfitt's bok, "Lost Tribes of Israel". This is a pretty thin basis for even a 1200-word Saturday magazine article, so I've never offered it up for publication. What I need to do is go visit the Kuki, but I doubt the Burmese would let me into Chin State, nor the Indians into NE India. Have you visited these places? PiCo 06:15, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

text: There is not one redeeming piece of information in your entire rant, and we are all dumber for having read it.  May God have mercy on your soul.  Tomertalk 22:04, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nice article 

message: From the history page 
S/T: "First off, Freund isn't making any claims, he's merely reporting what he's been told, if anyone's making claims it's the Bnei Menashe. Second, this tripe about ppl being surprised is not encyclopedic)"
S/T's editing legend: "putting this back into English". And "poor comprehension and poorer writing".
The para in question which S/T has since changed (snore): Michael Freund reports that the Bnei Menashe have a chant they call Miriam's Prayer[3]. Apart from the fact that this will come as news to the millions of Kuki-Chin-Mizo who have celebrated the Sikpui Festival all their lives, the same article states that "a century ago, when British missionaries first arrived in India's northeast, they were astonished to find that the local tribesmen worshiped one god, were familiar with many of the stories of the Bible, and were practicing a form of biblical Judaism". By all empirical accounts, the entire tribe were animists at the time of the arrival of the missionaries.[citation needed].
1. Aha! So we agree that "if anyone's making claims it's the (few thousand) Bnei Menashe, not the several million-strong Kuki-Chin-Mizo tribe as a whole. Religion can make people believe anything. See Rastafarians.
2. When I can be bothered, I'll trawl again for citations previously deleted by unhelpful people.
3. "tripe about ppl being surprised is not encyclopedic" : So true. There is absolutely no account of astonished missionaries arriving in the jungles of NE India to find a form of Judaism let alone people familiar with the Bible. And let me assure you those busybee missionaries and rajwallahs wrote a lot of books about their adventures among the *savage heathens*.
And S/T, do I have to set a bush on fire to convince you that those of my people who have heard of this claim were not only surprised but bemused. The Sikpui Hla (like a rose:)is the Sikpui Hla; you can rename it all you like but it's still the Sikpui Hla. For some reason, Geldof's mob trilling "and there won't be snow in Africa this Christmas time" comes to mind.
4. Truly, your English is far superior to that of this humble tribalwallah and I bow before it, if not to your argument.Jinglebells01 01:33, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Wikipedia is not a blog, neither is it a soapbox.  Please stop treating it like one.  Tomertalk 07:24, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

text: Oh, I couldn't agree more.  Please file a request for comments.  Thank you.  Tomertalk 07:17, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  MORE FROM TSHILO/TOMER! 

message: My, oh my: notice that Junglebells, Jinglebells01, Hellsbells222, Hellsbellsinheaven, etc. have done most of the edits through the history of this page? Can anyone say SOCKPUPPET?? Divebomber1 10:41, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Apologies if anyone actually thought I was attempting sockpuppetry - thought it fairly obvious all the above usernames are closely related, not to mention my not-good-enough-for-some-people-*Inglis*.  Only reason I change names is not because I'm pretending to be someone else (as if!) but because either I forget my password if I haven't been on for a while, or the old name's just naff. I don't normally sit around trying to think up dead cool permanent fakenames but I quite like Junglebells:-) And for this crime of having silly names, *someone* has just apparently tried to block me. Junglebells 01:34, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  SOCKPUPPETMANIA (''bells, bells, and more bells'') 

message: ...block notice. According to your block log, you have not been blocked at all. That user (User:Divebomber1) who added the templates either jumped to conclusions or were trying to trick you. NF24(radio me!Editor review) 22:47, 26 October 2007 (UTC
Cheers for that, NF24-- Junglebells (talk) 19:26, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  You have been a victim of a fradulent... 

message: I would remove the annal style that starts out sporadically and grows towards the end.  That isn't very Wikipedic in style.  Starting off each annal entry with a present tense verb even though the annal is from some years ago is also quite disorienting and makes this article seem very unprofessionally written from an English standpoint. --Sephiroth9611 (talk) 21:39, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: Thank Junglebells for that. Tomertalk 06:36, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

text: I agree but would go further. The information content is very interesting but the style is TERRIBLE for a Wikipedia article. This really needs to be worked on, and probably nearly everything reorganised, to knock it into shape. But I think it would be worth it, it is an important article and should be improved to make it more readable and more useful. Thanks for the work done on this already and please accept my constructive suggestion. --A R King (talk) 10:59, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Agree with these comments and have started to edit to unbold the dates, and introduce content as properly in the past. The recent incidents are not of such importance as to require a separate timeline - this is not a war, and I recommend deleting the timeline, or reducing it drastically. The article is getting overloaded with quotes from recent articles in newspapers, and that information should be summarized; every detail is not needed. Will work some more on it along these lines.Parkwells (talk) 21:28, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Style suggestions

message: Absolutely no idea about this so called Chalianthanga and his vision. May be because something about this chalianthanga and his vision appeared on this article, people (who've read this article) might think that he is some kinda Prophet of the Bnei Menashe. But am here to clarify that WE (the bnei menashe living in Manipur and other parts outside Mizoram) has not even a slight idea about this guy and his vision. So publishing something about this guy and his vision, and claiming that he played a role (not only a small role but a big one as according to the article) in all these events regarding the Bnei Menashe claims as part of the lost tribe is absolutely baseless.
Yosm (talk) 11:49, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
thread_title:  Chalianthanga's vision???who is he??? 

message: Corrected numbers in the Infobox and Lead based on the actual content of the articles; note range in estimate of numbers and those wanting to convert and emigrate.Parkwells (talk) 18:17, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
replies: text: Updated immigrant numbers by Reuters Jan. 2013 account. Parkwells (talk) 01:03, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Population numbers

message: The article seems tilted toward Israeli issues, internal politics and relations with India - significant for showing the larger effects of people changing identification, but it also needs more on the Bnei Menashe and their lives since this journey began, both in Israel and India.Parkwells (talk) 01:03, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
thread_title: Needs more on Bnei Menashe

message: An image should be added to show these what these "Jews" really look like.Winston S Smith (talk) 23:46, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
thread_title:  Image 

message: This Haaretz article contains new revelations about R' Amar's ruling and other matters.  I can send a copy to anyone who asks. Zerotalk 08:32, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
thread_title:  Relevant source 

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