Talk:Tiny Dynamine

message: :Image:Cocteautwins tiny.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot 08:49, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Fair use rationale for Image:Cocteautwins tiny.jpg

message: I've noticed Elizabeth Fraser's vocals are often referred to as 'indecipherable' in both this and the "Echoes in a Shallow Bay" article.  I'm not sure if this is an accurate term, and it also tends to make assumptions about the way that she sings or writes lyrics.  Although there are many people who try to match her vocal sounds to specific English (or Scottish-English) words and sentences, that undermines the fact that she may not be singing in any specific language at all.  She could be singing in a glossolalia, or, more likely, a partial glossolalia, since some English words are quite clear in her songs.  I would recommend that her lyrics are referred to as 'English-sounding', 'English plus glossolalia', or 'sometimes English and sometimes undetectable'.  Anyone else have thoughts on this? Didier Olmstead (talk) 16:59, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Writing as an editor who used the word 'indecipherable' to describe Elizabeth Fraser's lyrics in this article, I guess I should add my thoughts. Whereas I agree that 'indecipherable' is not 100% accurate when one considers Elizabeth's total lyrical output (there are some songs or parts of songs where quite a lot is discernable), I'm not sure that any other word or phrase necessarily conveys the truth any better, particularly bearing in mind that Wikipedia articles are supposed to be aimed at the general reader. I think that for the general reader, who possibly/probably hasn't heard any Cocteau Twin output, Elizabeth's lyrics probably do impress as being indecipherable, or at least largely so, when compared to other singers. Also I think that alternative phrases such as 'sometimes English and sometimes undetectable' lose in clumsiness what they may gain in precision. To add to the general fog, I distinctly remember an interview with the Cocteaus years ago when Elizabeth said that she didn't just make up words as she went along (which, as I understand it, is glossolalia), but did in fact sing specific lyrics particular to each song, which means that when people can't work out what those lyrics are (which, speaking for myself, is pretty much the case on the 'Tiny Dynamine' EP), then that makes them indecipherable. In conclusion, I'd be inclined to use 'mostly indecipherable' or 'largely indecipherable' when describing Elizabeth's general style, but in particular songs (or parts of songs) where nothing comprehensible can be made out, 'indecipherable' is perhaps as good an adjective as any. Or what about 'incomprehensible' ........? :)   PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:23, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
thread_title:  Discussion