Talk:Anti-French sentiment in the United States/Archive 2

message: The following text has been reverted from the opening paragraph by User:VerilyVerily:
''
he following former text was bowdlerized: "Anti-French sentiment or Francophobia in the United States is an exaggerated discrediting of all things French, which is given a rationale through disapproval of the actions and attitudes of the French government, but which can be recognized by its undertones of moral censure ("treacherous" "cowardly" or "frivolous") and by implicit jingoism."''
What a very ignorant entry and what an abysmally stupid discussion.
:(The above by Wetman.)  What are you talking about?  I can't even understand this.  I didn't revert anything; I rewrote the paragraph to make it more neutral, clearer, and similar to Anti-American sentiment.  And what discussion are you referring to?  And please sign your posts.  Why on Earth do you say RickK and me "control" this article?; the edits I made a few hours ago were the only ones I've ever made to this article, and RickK has only a few minor edits before then.  So, you'll have to explain. - VV 05:19, 16 May 2004 (UTC)

message: RickK: in our own article, Jingoism is described as "chauvinistic patriotism, especially with regard to a warmongering political stance." These seems to me to be an accurate description of some of the discourse in the US w.r.t to the French over the past year (Freedom Fries and all). Why do you object to this term? -- Viajero 21:21, 16 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Take it out of the first sentence.  The term is loaded, and implies that the only reason why there is anti-French sentiment is because of American bias.  It does not allow for the possibility that there might be just some possibility that justifies the reactions.  I'm not saying that the reactions ARE justified, only that the tone of including words like jingoism makes the first sentence POV.  RickK 23:56, 16 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I added a note about anti-French sentiment corresponding with tensions in Franco-U.S. relations, and called "jingoism" an extreme manifestation of this sentiment. These concerns have been addressed. 172 00:00, 17 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: It is a POV term in describing anything, and is grossly innacurate in decription of the anti-french in the USA generally. Shouldn't this article just be titled Anti-French sentiment? The English are better known for their "francophobia" (geez, what a joke term, like ANYBODY is scared of the french?) Sam [Spade] 23:58, 16 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Much of the content in this article isn't that bad, actually, at least the stuff not dealing with the 2003 Iraq war. Perhaps this article it should be redirected, and the content integrated with the text in an article about Franco-U.S. relations. 172 00:04, 17 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Current wording about jingoism is much better, but I think the historical import of anti-french sentiment amongst english speakers generall;y is unaddressed. Sam [Spade] 00:07, 17 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: The romanticized overview of Franco-U.S. relations before the Second World War (the "Francophobia" section) is of even greater concern. It's a bit problematic that, say, the Quasi War and the XYZ Affair get no mention. And what about the French Revolution? 172 00:23, 17 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  ''jingoism'' 

message: This article is a counterpoint to the even more-virulent Anti-Americanism article in which the US are criticized for everything down to the fact that "In God We Trust" is on the coins. Each of these articles are untouchable in one sense in that they describe perceptions. If the perceptions exist they are unarguable whether or not they are factual.
For my part, both could go. -- Cecropia | Talk 16:06, 23 May 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: I'd prefer everything factual to stay, including a variety of disgusting articles I won't list here for the sake of our respective sanities ;) I will admit that the franco-american conflict (which goes back to British/French historical rivalries) amuses me to no end. I see France as a rival superpower, something which would send many of the merry pranksters who coined some of the "accusations" into hysterics, but they are a signifigant nuclear power and the #3 military spender generally . I tend to think the most of the stereotypes about France (and about americans, and heck, most generally) are true, altho I will say I never noticed any lack of cleanliness on the part of any French person I have met, altho one did sing the praises of horsemeat and male bisexuality ;) (anecdotal of course, I've met less than 5 native French in my life). On the other hand, most americans do seem to be fat, arrogant, and stupid, at least in my crude estimation (the evidence, while anecdotal, is more striking here, being that I am american ;) Anyhow I love information, and so long as its not innaccurate (and opinions rarely are) and is fairly presented (as I think this is) it has a place here. That being said, theres no reason for people who are annoyed w such to be editing these pages, nor reading them for that matter. Sam [Spade] 16:33, 23 May 2004 (UTC)

text: Actually I was going off of me and my friends, but those are pretty good examples too ;) Sam [Spade] 16:57, 23 May 2004 (UTC)

text: If you think about it, arrogance is one stereotype both the french and americans have in common. Perhaps we should find a way to celebrate this common ground? ;) Sam [Spade] 16:59, 23 May 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Anti-French / Anti-American