Talk:Fujiwara no Teika

message: I've been looking this article over, and while I think it can meet GA status, I've got a few things I'd like to address before that happens. The biggest issue regards the references section, and the second issue regards jargon.
The references section is huge. This is a good thing, but large references sections need to be carefully managed. As it stands, the section is almost unusably large. There is no way to glance at it and see what the primary references are, and the frequent use of endnotes (comments) makes it hard to identify sources.
*Remove duplicate sources. By using the name attribute of the ref tag, you can re-use a reference over and over. When you define a reference like this, Author, book, blah, then you can reuse it by simply using this tag, . An example would be 72 and 73, which both reference the same work. With the above method, both notes would direct to 72.
*Consider separating endnotes (comments) from primary sources (references). When they are mixed together in such great number, they can dilute the actual references. There are several ways to handle this, but I'd recommend using Harvard citations for actual cited works, and the footnote () system for Notes and comments. That way users can quickly see the difference between a note and a reference, as well as allowing you to use the same source over and over. To use the handy Harvard reference template, you'd do the following (actual example paragraph):
===Example paragraph===
Minamoto Ienaga was apparently detached from being Go-Toba's personal secretary to instead serve as the secretary for the compilation committee; his and Teika's diaries have survived, affording a unprecedently good view of the inner workings of how an imperial anthology was created) were chosen to compile the Shin Kokinshū in the eleventh month of 1201 .
As if the honor of helping to compile the Shin Kokinshū and of having a remarkable 46An interesting comment... of his poems (including three from the Shoji hyakushu) included were not enough, Teika would later be appointed in 1232 by the Retired Emperor Go-Horikawa to compile - by himself - the ninth Imperial Anthology, the Shin chokusenshu (c. 1235; "New Imperial Collection") . Teika was the first person to have ever been a compiler of two Imperial anthologies.
===Notes===
===References===
*
The disadvantage of Harvard style is that it adds more stuff in the text. However, it allows people to quickly see what info came from Brower as opposed to any other source. When one source is used over and over, it is easier to remember a name, than it is to remember a number.
I know it seems like it would be a complex change, but I'd give you a hand with it if thats a direction you want to go.
The other issue with the article is a combination of jargon, and tone. In the example paragraph above, we see, "As if the honor of helping ... wasn't enough." The article takes a sort of 'proud' stance. It sounds like a professor talking (which is good in many ways, but adds 'figures of speech' that aren't necessary when you aren't addressing students). I'd rewrite that paragraph like this:
In addition to receiving the honor of compiling the Shin Kokinshū and of having a remarkable 46 of his poems (including three from the Shoji hyakushu) included, Teika would later be appointed in 1232 by the Retired Emperor Go-Horikawa to compile the ninth Imperial Anthology, the Shin chokusenshu (c. 1235; "New Imperial Collection"). Teika was the first person to have been a compiler of two Imperial anthologies.
In general, only slight changes in tone would be necessary. Also, look for unneeded words and phrases. The exercises here might help: User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 2a.
If you are willing to put some effort into these things, I'd be happy to help out. This is an impressive big of work, and I'd like to see it meet the GA qualifications. Let me know if you need clarification. Phidauex 18:10, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  GA Review "On Hold" 

message: *
The disadvantage of Harvard style is that it adds more stuff in the text. However, it allows people to quickly see what info came from Brower as opposed to any other source. When one source is used over and over, it is easier to remember a name, than it is to remember a number.
I know it seems like it would be a complex change, but I'd give you a hand with it if thats a direction you want to go.
The other issue with the article is a combination of jargon, and tone. In the example paragraph above, we see, "As if the honor of helping ... wasn't enough." The article takes a sort of 'proud' stance. It sounds like a professor talking (which is good in many ways, but adds 'figures of speech' that aren't necessary when you aren't addressing students). I'd rewrite that paragraph like this:
In addition to receiving the honor of compiling the Shin Kokinshū and of having a remarkable 46 of his poems (including three from the Shoji hyakushu) included, Teika would later be appointed in 1232 by the Retired Emperor Go-Horikawa to compile the ninth Imperial Anthology, the Shin chokusenshu (c. 1235; "New Imperial Collection"). Teika was the first person to have been a compiler of two Imperial anthologies.
In general, only slight changes in tone would be necessary. Also, look for unneeded words and phrases. The exercises here might help: User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 2a.
If you are willing to put some effort into these things, I'd be happy to help out. This is an impressive big of work, and I'd like to see it meet the GA qualifications. Let me know if you need clarification. Phidauex 18:10, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: References

message: I went ahead and added a separate References section with just a list of the references, for easy viewing. They are in the Harvard template format so that transitioning to a Harvard-style referencing will be easier, should it be deemed necessary. Phidauex 20:46, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Phidauex, I'm not sure what the point of your suggestions is. I'm referencing this article with quotes, and the works are simply there so the quotes can be looked up and verified. Why would Harvard referencing help there? --maru   (talk)  contribs 00:19, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Harvard references 

message: The dates given are 1139-1202. Is this correct? It makes for an odd family to have a foster-brother 33 years older than yourself; and a man who lived to 63 does not have his career cut tragically short unless some non-fatal total disaster happened to him. If so, what? JCScaliger 16:01, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: 1139 to 1202 is right, exactly what Brower says in his study of the Gokuden; as for the timing, "He was adopted by Fujiwara no Shunzei when Shunzei's younger brother "retired from the world".", as Jakuren says. And it's not too surprising that he might have begun his career as a poet late since he was kind of busy with the aristocrat and monk things; remember also you had to be fairly old to be at all respectable. --maru   (talk)  contribs 19:41, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Jakuren 

message: Did Teika's eldest brother die young? If so, when? JCScaliger 16:26, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Don't know. He's never mentioned, except very much in passing. --maru   (talk)  contribs 19:36, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Senior male 

message: I don't understand this paragraph; 
:Minamoto no Michichika (d. 1202) had insinuated himself into Imperial circles through Go-Toba's former nursemaid; with this leverage, Michichika's adopted daughter (the then Shogun's daughter, who had decided to marry his daughter off to the Emperor, using Michichika as a go-between - contrary to the Shogun's usual policy if favoring Kujo no Kanezane. The Shogun's lack of confidence allowed Michichika to push Go-Toba into firing Kanezane as kampaku in 1196[16]) became Go-Toba's concubine (making Michichika the Retired Emperor Go-Toba's father in law), and she bore him his first heir in 1195; the shame of this usurpation led Go-Toba's first wife, Ninshi, to retire from the court. As Ninshi was the daughter of the Kujō's leader Kujo no Kanezane, the Kujō's influence in court diminished considerably, even to the extent of Kanezane and Yoshitsune (d. 1206; once the regent and prime minister) [17]being driven from the court in 1196;[18]with the diminution of their influence, so dimmed Teika's prospects. Teika expressed his disappointment through poetry, such as this example, written when he was "passed over for promotion in the spring list" in 1187 (he would eventually be promoted in 1190, but as his good and encouraging friend Saigyo died that year, it was cold comfort):
Please explain; what happened? who intrigued and with whom? JCScaliger 17:35, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Political intrigue 

message: Article has been relisted by a two to four vote, (I counted the two people up above who said it should be failed) archived results here: Wikipedia:Good articles/Disputes/Archive 5 Homestarmy 13:27, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Congratulations! JCScaliger 23:11, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: GA Dispute over

message: A bot  has added class=GA to the WikiProject banners on this page, as it's listed as a good article.  If you see a mistake, please revert, and leave a note on the bot's talk page. Thanks, BOT Giggabot (talk) 05:43, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Automatic addition of "class=GA"

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